# Next Chief Of Army Staff - 2013 ?



## Kompromat

*So this is how it looks right now.



1: Lt. General Haroon Aslam Current (CLS)









2: Lt. General Rashad Mahmood current (CGS).








3: Lt General Raheel Sharif [Brother of Maj Shabbir Sharif - N.H]

Current: Inspector General Training and Evaluation (IGT&E), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.







4: Lt. General Tariq Khan [Commander, I Corps, Mangla.]








5: Lt.Gen Muhammad Zaheer Ul Islam. [DGISI]








This list is the one based on seniority. Who do you think will be the next COAS?*


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## AUz

Lt General Tariq Khan.

Currently commanding I Strike Corps of Pakistan Army

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## Leader

me

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## TaimiKhan

By the time current chief retires, I believe Lt Gen Haroon (Ex Commander SSG) would be the senior most general, and if Nawaz does what he said, that senior most will get the job, he may be the one. But you never know.

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## Bratva

TaimiKhan said:


> By the time current chief retires, I believe Lt Gen Haroon (Ex Commander SSG) would be the senior most general, and if Nawaz does what he said, that senior most will get the job, he may be the one. But you never know.



What about LT.General Tariq Khan?


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## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> By the time current chief retires, I believe Lt Gen Haroon (Ex Commander SSG) would be the senior most general, and if Nawaz does what he said, that senior most will get the job, he may be the one. But you never know.


He is the Chief of Logistics staff eh?

The outgoing chief's opinion will also be taken, and I don't think his opinion will favor him. Since a person who is going to be th end next potentiql COAS in eyes of current one doesn't get sent as a CLS. Corp Commanders, CGS, DG ISI etc are the people who are in running IMO, what do you think? They are more senior type positions.

Just as a Brig commanding a brigade in Swat has more chances of being promoted than somebody who is serving as a Commandant in some school in Murree...

As for the predictions, the seniority thing IMO is utter rubbish by Nawaz Sharif. The man I see fit for the role is Lt Gen Tariq khan, the one who is at favourable odds at the moment though is Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood.

Only time will tell though.

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## Sugarcane



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## Farah Sohail

Wht will be the chances of DG ISI Lt Gen Zaheer ul Islam to be next COAS?


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## TaimiKhan

nuclearpak said:


> He is the Chief of Logistics staff eh?
> 
> The outgoing chief's opinion will also be taken, and I don't think his opinion will favor him. Since a person who is going to be th end next potentiql COAS in eyes of current one doesn't get sent as a CLS. Corp Commanders, CGS, DG ISI etc are the people who are in running IMO, what do you think? They are more senior type positions.
> 
> Just as a Brig commanding a brigade in Swat has more chances of being promoted than somebody who is serving as a Commandant in some school in Murree...
> 
> As for the predictions, the seniority thing IMO is utter rubbish by Nawaz Sharif. The man I see fit for the role is Lt Gen Tariq khan, the one who is at favourable odds at the moment though is Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood.
> 
> Only time will tell though.



He led the most successful military operations during swat operations and in other regions, responsible for the largest heli assault operation in history of Pakistan, he was previously commanding Bahawalpur Corps, and he is left the senior most after the first 3 retire.

"Top sources reveal that by October this year, Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam would be on top of the seniority list of three-star generals. Lt Gen Haroon Aslam is also a commando and he had served in the Military Operations Directorate and with his new appointment as the CLS after serving as corps commander, he would be ready for promotion as a four-star general."

Major reshuffle in military hierarchy - thenews.com.pk

So his chances are good, either as Chief or may be CJCSC provided no one from navy or airforce is brought in.

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## Jango

Farah Sohail said:


> Wht will be the chances of DG ISI Lt Gen Zaheer ul Islam to be next COAS?



He is way down the seniority list.


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## KingMamba

nuclearpak said:


> He is way down the seniority list.



I also believe he is set to retire in a year or two no?


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## pkuser2k12

I don't know but it should be someone with huge chey(6) char(4) ka danda so that he can break backs of trouble makers

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## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> He led the most successful military operations during swat operations and in other regions, responsible for the largest heli assault operation in history of Pakistan, he was previously commanding Bahawalpur Corps, and he is left the senior most after the first 3 retire.
> 
> "Top sources reveal that by October this year, Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam would be on top of the seniority list of three-star generals. Lt Gen Haroon Aslam is also a commando and he had served in the Military Operations Directorate and with his new appointment as the CLS after serving as corps commander, he would be ready for promotion as a four-star general."
> 
> Major reshuffle in military hierarchy - thenews.com.pk
> 
> So his chances are good, either as Chief or may be CJCSC provided no one from navy or airforce is brought in.



On the basis of his past experience and seniority, he should be the top contender...but CLS position for a former SSG boss and CC...hmmm.

I would prefer somebody who is well familiar with the war on terror, and him along with Tariq Khan seem the top contenders on that criteria.



KingMamba93 said:


> I also believe he is set to retire in a year or two no?



Yeah, late next year.

Before him there are 2 retirement cycles I believe, one of this year, and another in the middle of next year. He comes after those 2.


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## TaimiKhan

nuclearpak said:


> On the basis of his past experience and seniority, he should be the top contender...but CLS position for a former SSG boss and CC...hmmm.
> 
> I would prefer somebody who is well familiar with the war on terror, and him along with Tariq Khan seem the top contenders on that criteria.
> 
> Yeah, late next year.
> 
> Before him there are 2 retirement cycles I believe, one of this year, and another in the middle of next year. He comes after those 2.



I am not in favor of Tariq, as he is a very pro american general, you can say in a way an american stooge, i don't have any positive for him. 

Gen haroon is more favorable, he has been in this war, he fought it on the front line with his troops, whatever experience Tariq has, i believe Gen Haroon has no less.

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## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> I am not in favor of Tariq, as he is a very pro american general, you can say in a way an american stooge, i don't have any positive for him.
> 
> Gen haroon is more favorable, he has been in this war, he fought it on the front line with his troops, whatever experience Tariq has, i believe Gen Haroon has no less.



Well yeah, fatman17 yesterday did comment that his pro Americanism might be his downfall.

It will depend on what policy Nawaz Sharif formulates for US, the same old ball licking or will he try and stand up.


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## Farah Sohail

Dont u people think tht ISI chief would be more suitable...because being an ISI chief gives first hand knowledge of what exactly is happening in and out of Pakistan.. He has the real exposure......Kiyani himself was also an ISI chief.. And Gen Zaheer ul Islam has been Corps Commander karachi too.... Though I am no one to comment, but I think being an ISI chief should be an added advantage.. Its just tht as u ppl said he is down the seniority list..but someone told tht first 2-3 generals are supposed to retire within 2-3 months...so maybe its possible tht they dont consider those who are to retire too soon after Nov and give someone who has atleast 1-2 yrs left in service..yea i know being COAS gives an automatic 3 yr extension but maybe..they dont consider those, supposed to retire too soon..


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## genmirajborgza786

TaimiKhan said:


> By the time current chief retires, I believe Lt Gen Haroon (Ex Commander SSG) would be the senior most general, and if Nawaz does what he said, that senior most will get the job, he may be the one. But you never know.



chief , some say it might be Lt Gen Rashad Mehmood what is your opinion on this


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## Pakistanisage

These are the Candidates, especially the ones in Bold:




5.Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam, HI(M), SBt, AK[3] &#8212; Chief of Logistics Staff (CLS), GHQ. (Colonel Commandant of the Azad Kashmir Regiment). Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
6.Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood, HI(M), Baloch[3] &#8212; Chief of General Staff (CGS), GHQ. Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
7.Lt Gen Raheel Sharif, HI(M), FF[4] &#8212; Inspector General Training and Evaluation (IGT&E), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.

*8.Lt Gen Tariq Khan, HI(M), AC &#8212; Commander, I Corps, Mangla. (Colonel Commandant of the Armoured Corps). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.*

9.Lt Gen Muhammad Zaheerul Islam, HI(M), Punjab[5] &#8212; DG Inter-Services Intelligence (DG ISI), ISI Dte, Islamabad. (Colonel Commandant of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
10.Lt Gen Salim Nawaz, HI(M), SBt, Baloch[6] &#8212; Inspector General Armaments (IGA), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.

*11.Lt Gen Khalid Rabbani, HI(M), Punjab[7] &#8212; Commander, XI Corps, Peshawar. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.

12.Lt Gen Muzammil Hussain, HI(M), Baloch[4] &#8212; Commander, XXX Corps, Gujranwala. (Colonel Commandant of the Northern Light Infantry Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.*

13.Lt Gen Sajjad Ghani, HI(M), Engrs[8] &#8212; Quarter-Master General (QMG), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
14.Lt Gen Muhammad Ahsan Mahmood, HI(M), Engrs[9] &#8212; Chairman, Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF), Wah Cantonment. Due to retire on 15 April 2015.
15.Lt Gen Muhammad Asif, HI(M), Sind[10] &#8212; DG Joint Staff (DG JS), JSHQ, Chaklala. (Colonel Commandant of the Sind Regiment). Due to retire on 15 April 2015.


*16.Lt Gen Abid Pervaiz, HI(M), AC[11] &#8212; Commander, II Corps, Multan. Due to retire on 15 April 2015.*

17.Lt Gen Javed Iqbal, HI(M), FF[10] &#8212; Adjutant General (AG), GHQ. Due to retire on 15 April 2015
18.Lt Gen Nasser Khan Janjua, HI(M), Punjab[12] &#8212; President, National Defence University (NDU), Islamabad. Due to retire on 4 October 2015.
19.Lt Gen Syed Tariq Nadeem Gilani, HI(M), Arty[9] &#8212; Commander, Army Strategic Forces Command (Comd ASFC), Rawalpindi. (Colonel Commandant of the Regiment of Artillery). Due to retire on 4 October 2015.


*20.Lt Gen Muhammad Ijaz Chaudhry, HI(M), Arty[5] &#8212; Commander, V Corps, Karachi. Due to retire on 4 October 2015.*


21.Lt Gen Naweed Zaman, HI(M), Punjab[9] &#8212; Military Secretary (MS), GHQ. Due to retire on 4 October 2015.


*22.Lt Gen Maqsood Ahmad, HI(M), FF[3] &#8212; Commander, IV Corps, Lahore. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.


23.Lt Gen Zubair Mahmood Hayat, HI(M), Arty[3] &#8212; Commander, XXXI Corps, Bahawalpur. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.*


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## razgriz19

I wouldn't mind having DGISI Zaheer Ul Islam as COAS. Apparently no one in west really knows him...
And c'mon he "looks" like a COAS, like Kayani and Musharraf.

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## muse

At a minimum it must be a graduate of any Western military academy or any non-Pakistani academy.

A rethink on seniority - the best man for the job

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## RazPaK

Anybody as long as it is not Kiyani the na mard.

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## Albatross

Aeronaut said:


> So this is how it looks right now.
> 
> 1: Lt. General Haroon Aslam Current (CLS)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2: Lt. General Rashad Mahmood current (CGS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3: Lt. General Tariq Khan [Commander, I Corps, Mangla.]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4: Lt.Gen Muhammad Zaheer Ul Islam. [DGISI]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This list is the one based on seniority. Who do you think will be the next COAS?



If we go by NZ words that he will go for whoever is the senior most then it should be either general haroon or gen rashad .
As per my knowledge Rashad enjoys good relation with shareefs but on the other hand is not professionally very sound ( I may be wrong though) .
Gen haroon has headed SSG in cherat as DG and is seemingly more professional but his appointment as CLS makes it confusing as that post is not considered very sensitive and important especially for a gonna be COAS.

Gen tariq being IG FC during swat operation has earn the reputation of someone who can take hard and timely decisions when required but is labeled as pro-american which can be a plus or a negative point depending on the state of Pak relations with US in nov 13.

Our DG ISI keeps a low profile and having served as chief of staff at army strategic force command is considered to be very visionary and "Right on track" soldier but is the junior most among these fours .And our political elites doesnt have good experiences when they promoted jun most into top slot e.g zia and musharraf .

So its really not easy to choose any one and I guess the power lies with kayani as to which 2-3 names he is gonna fwd to NZ and what are gonna be his recomendations.



muse said:


> At a minimum it must be a graduate of any Western military academy or any non-Pakistani academy.
> 
> A rethink on seniority - the best man for the job



How many among these 4 fulfill this criteria ? If you know ?


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## muse

Albatross said:


> How many among these 4 fulfill this criteria ? If you know ?



I do not know


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## airmarshal

General Islam looks like a typical Army general. He could not have chosen any other profession. 

I dont know the merits and demerits of each general. The COAS criteria must be leadership and seniority. 

The thing that concerns me is that institutions progress when the accession to top slot is regular. In last 16 years, we had only two COAS. We might have lost potentially very strong leaders in those years.

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## muse

airmarshal said:


> . The COAS criteria must be *leadership* and seniority. .



Well we disagree on seniority thing - but leadership is a quality all armed forces seek to develop, however, leaders not only define missions, they motivate it's professional execution, what mission should the next COAS articulate and help execute?

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## notorious_eagle

All 4 are equally qualified. Exceptional Officers, Patriots at Heart and Leaders who lead from the Front.



muse said:


> At a minimum it must be a graduate of any Western military academy or any non-Pakistani academy.
> 
> A rethink on seniority - the best man for the job



It will be a good quality to have but it should not be the deciding factor

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## Donatello

Lt Gen Zahir Ul Islam retires next year i think. 2014 or 2015. So to make him COAS for just a short time doesn't seem viable, even though i would say he would be the best fit as he desperately tried to keep Army out of civilian affairs and involvement, when Karachi was burning, 3 years back and he was the Commander V Corps, he refused to let Army take over the city unless COAS gave explicit orders himself.

Remember guys we need someone who can keep up with both the elected government and the foreign affairs.


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## OrionHunter

airmarshal said:


> General Islam *looks like a typical Army general.* He could not have chosen any other profession.


So you guys select the COAS depending on his looks??  

Seriously, it should be based purely on seniority. Look what happened when favorites were promoted to the top job superseding officers who were senior and more qualified . They screwed things up real bad, and created a lot of bad blood too.

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## muse

Reading Notorious and Donatello, I am struck by how they seem to be planted in the past -- @airmarshal suggested leadership and seniority as qualifications, we asked, because it seems an oxymoron to use "leadership" as a criterion for Military positions, since leadership is a quality each recruit is inculcated with, what it is that we need leadership for , what mission, what transition, is the new Leader to oversee -- If the COAS is merely a politician as he was in the past, then we have little to be concerned about, any idiot would do, if he is to be a puppet of Western powers, again, a Western academy graduate would do -- What is it that the next COAS must oversee?

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## Kompromat

@muse I think General Zaheer studied some course in the US, i am not sure however.

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## Gentelman

professionalism,maturity and previous service record should be a guide line and next COAS must be professional and must not interupt in civilian and democratic matters&#8230;&#8230;

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## genmirajborgza786

Aeronaut said:


> *Lt. General Rashad Mahmood* current (CGS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This list is the one based on seniority. Who do you think will be the next COAS?



in my opinion Lt. General Rashad should be the next COAS

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## Tk_90

Lt. General Tariq khan!

One of the best generals of pakistan army, tariq khan!

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## Thorough Pro

Oh shut up, don't be fooled by Kiyani's mild manners. 



RazPaK said:


> Anybody as long as it is not Kiyani the na mard.

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## RazPaK

Thorough Pro said:


> Oh shut up, don't be fooled by Kiyani's mild manners.



Kiyani ne puri fauj nu satu pilai.


He is not competent.


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## asad71

1.One needs to be capable to come up to a three star in PA. NS may select anyone of these four - or even go down further. It's a political decision which he must make himself.

2. If Zaheer is promoted then NS can appoint a candidate of his own as ISI Chief. He would want that.

3. NS may seek Gen Khwaza Ziauddin's counsel on this.

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## Jaanbaz

It could be any one of those, its definitely going to be a political decision not based on merit. USA will also have a great role in the background on who becomes our COAS.


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## SBD-3

asad71 said:


> 1.One needs to be capable to come up to a three star in PA. NS may select anyone of these four - or even go down further. It's a political decision which he must make himself.
> 
> 2. If Zaheer is promoted then NS can appoint a candidate of his own as ISI Chief. He would want that.
> 
> 3. NS may seek Gen Khwaza Ziauddin's counsel on this.


I think the most easy and most suitable way is to appoint the most senior general on the post. Gen zaheer already has a good working relationship with N so N should be comfortable with him being the ISI chief.


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## rockstarIN

Who select the COAS? on seniority basis or the PM/President in Pakistan.

Or through Corps level leadership consensus?


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## Devil Soul

^^^
After reading the report, i think Lt Gen Haroon should be COAS, he seems to be very experience & capable leader...

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## airmarshal

muse said:


> Reading Notorious and Donatello, I am struck by how they seem to be planted in the past -- @airmarshal suggested leadership and seniority as qualifications, we asked, because it seems an oxymoron to use "leadership" as a criterion for Military positions, since leadership is a quality each recruit is inculcated with, what it is that we need leadership for , what mission, what transition, is the new Leader to oversee -- If the COAS is merely a politician as he was in the past, then we have little to be concerned about, any idiot would do, if he is to be a puppet of Western powers, again, a Western academy graduate would do -- What is it that the next COAS must oversee?



You know why I said leadership? See General Musharraf after March 9, 2007. That when he got real challenge ot his rule after he dismissed CJ. Most of his decisions were blunders after that date. 

The excuse put forth he was a General and not politician does not stick. He was willingly there. So he must have been equipped, by Army training to take tough and right decisions under pressure. He failed on this count. 

So seniority to me is a lesser criteria than leadership. COAS is a leadership role. Not a seniority role. In Pakistan we stress on seniority which is not a criteria at all here in West.

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## Axis Of Logic

razgriz19 said:


> I wouldn't mind having DGISI Zaheer Ul Islam as COAS. Apparently no one in west really knows him...
> And c'mon he "looks" like a COAS, like Kayani and Musharraf.



Hello Bhai, Zaheer-ul-Islam sahab is a very liberal person. He spent most of his time in American Military acadamies so why are you saying he is unknown to goras!!


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## sohailalishah

Aey Allah Gen. Khayani jesa useless COAS na aaeey (Ameen) jo phely Pakistani ko mara dhoka diya aab apney Pak Fuji ko 

Unfortunately first our Politicians were corrupt now Pak Army have start playing games in today's daily news there was Mr. Nawaz Sharif saying "i have taken Army top brass into confidence into Trail & then Hanging Musharaf, now its the plan to break Pakistan Army into two i see a big revolt in the coming, you all may laugh at me now but time will tell.

Shame on you Pakistan Army's Top Brass...yaar yeh Army khassi ho gaee hai Qasaam sey. Allah hamari hifazat karey....


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## 5th Star

Premier has already stated that the next COAS will be appointed on the basis of Seniority.

Lt: General Haroon likely to be COAS.

Besides, he, & General Tariq having their earlier assignments in Tribal insurgency hit areas have maximum chances to get the top post.

But If its General Zaheer Ul Islam, then we must understand that the Premier wants some serious issues in KHI to be taken out.

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## 5th Star

RazPaK said:


> Kiyani ne puri fauj nu satu pilai.
> 
> 
> He is not competent.



If he was not competant, how did he manage to get Swat back to normalcy?

How did he manage to get the F***** TT out of most of the FATA?

Im sorry brother but you are trying to hide the Sun behind your bowl.

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## DV RULES

*Give another extension to Kiyani for 3 years (if possible).*

Lt. Gen. Haroon Aslam looks like another Musharraf.
Lt. Gen. Rashid looks like politician more than army commander so he may screw civil government without any adventure or with adventure.
Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan looks like decision maker but weak personality in international affairs because of his favoritism.
Lt. Gen Zaheer looks like silent commander, silent warrior and die hard. Partially suitable for international affairs. Strong in taking and keeping its decision power. 

(Above mentioned characteristics are views of contributor may not matched to addressed)


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## Hyperion

All top posts, anywhere in the world and specially in the armed forces (I am talking about the TOP post ONLY) are never based solely on "seniority/qualification". Anyone who has ever made it to the top already knows that, specially in Pakistani armed forces. This is how it is going to unfold.

1. 40% Seniority.
2. 10% Psych profile (stability).
3. 20% Exposure and ability to form bridges with key opposing players (whatever afflicts the nation at that point in time)
4. 10% Experience of two last positions held. (Command experience)
5. 10% Committees (a very special committees) decision.
6. 10% Personal take of the present COAS. 

Note: It's the same world over, however, in rest of the world you replace point#5 and #6 with political decision.

This is my personal take on promotions in Pakistani Armed forces (call it a ranking system if you wish), and going by it, none of the aspirants mentioned by @Aeronaut stand a chance. Maybe the guy who resembles "Uncle Sargam" (Lt.Gen Muhammad Zaheer Ul Islam) has a probable chance to succeed under my ranking system. Just maybe.

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## rockstarIN

Can't you guys extend the tenure of Kayani again?...the best solution?


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## XYON

Looking at the fact that Nawaz Sharif is going after Musharraf out of sole reason as revenge for what he did to him; I think that Nawaz Sharif will again chose some Junior General as COAS who no one expects and the same General would then remain thankful to Mian Sahib for 'granting and entrusting' him for such an important position whereby he was least expecting this honour to be 'bestowed' on him. The next COAS will then stand in honour of the PM as we stand for our national anthem!


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## Hyperion

Dude, if we do, he will most probably die of natural causes before the next tenure ends. He is OLD mate.



rockstar said:


> Can't you guys extend the tenure of Kayani again?...the best solution?

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## Jango

rockstar said:


> Can't you guys extend the tenure of Kayani again?...the best solution?



He is FAR from the best solution...

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## Haseebullah

I vote for the person who sacrificed his son for Pakistan. i.e Lt Gen Tariq Khan. A man of strict principles indeed.

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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

Haseebullah said:


> I* vote for the person who sacrificed his son for Pakistan*. i.e Lt Gen Tariq Khan. A man of strict principles indeed.



can you elaborate it in detail ..?

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## Hyperion

Rather he is to a certain degree part of the problem..... saree rigging ka partially zimmawar...... CJ still alive: partially responsible.... 



nuclearpak said:


> He is FAR from the best solution...


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## Haseebullah

MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n;4456702 said:


> can you elaborate it in detail ..?



While he was IG FC during the War of Bajaur his son got kidnapped and kidnappers demands were against the interest of the state but within his power.
His son returned in pieces.

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## Jungibaaz

All of them are capable and honorable men.
But at this very critical state Pakistan is in, one has to how these candidates will respond internal political matters and also foreign policy matters. But be sure of one thing, when it comes to internal security affairs: War in FATA, BLA insurgency, foreign backed proxies, drones and their use, etc... all of these COAS candidates are on the same page and will respond the same way.

Remember COAS alone may the final say in all things the army does.
But the rest of the input remains unchanged. The rest of the PA command structure contributes for the most part, in fact even retired generals have a big say. So don't expect massive variations in the approach of current COAS or future COAS, or between the different candidates.


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## Tk_90

[MENTION=32258]MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n[/MENTION] @Haseebullah
Lt general Tariq is also the Nawabzada of Tank region N.W.F.P.
He is no doubt the BEST serving General of PA. His battle record is excellent!

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## Albatross

Haseebullah said:


> While he was IG FC during the War of Bajaur his son got kidnapped and kidnappers demands were against the interest of the state but within his power.
> His son returned in pieces.



Can you plz provide some link to this news as its a very great sacrifice and should be spread to inspire others .



XYON said:


> Looking at the fact that Nawaz Sharif is going after Musharraf out of sole reason as revenge for what he did to him; I think that Nawaz Sharif will again chose some Junior General as COAS who no one expects and the same General would then remain thankful to Mian Sahib for 'granting and entrusting' him for such an important position whereby he was least expecting this honour to be 'bestowed' on him. The next COAS will then stand in honour of the PM as we stand for our national anthem!



Our history proves the opposite . Both Zia and Mush were given top slot bypassing seniors .


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## JonAsad

Lt. general Rashad has hitler like mooch-


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## Haseebullah

Albatross said:


> Can you plz provide some link to this news as its a very great sacrifice and should be spread to inspire others .



You really think something like this would have a news report/article. I know this from a person who served under him while this happened in Bajaur that is.



Tk_90 said:


> [MENTION=32258]MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n[/MENTION]
> @Haseebullah
> Lt general Tariq is also the Nawabzada of Tank region N.W.F.P.
> He is no doubt the BEST serving General of PA. His battle record is excellent!



The performance of FC during his tenure speaks alot about him. He turned FC from an unprofessional militia into a formidable force.


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## Areesh

RazPaK said:


> Anybody as long as it is not Kiyani the na mard.



True. Same here. Well said.


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## Areesh

General Tariq Khan is the best choice in my opinion.

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## fatman17

1. commanded at least a Corps.
2. must be from the fighting arms. infantry/artillery/armour
3. must be leader of men. a professional soldier.
4. recent experience eg; combat/WoT etc

the man who fits that bill - Lt.Gen. Tariq Khan

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## Alpha1

Areesh said:


> General Tariq Khan is the best choice in my opinion.


Indeed!!!!!!



fatman17 said:


> 1. commanded at least a Corps.
> 2. must be from the fighting arms. infantry/artillery/armour
> 3. must be leader of men. a professional soldier.
> 4. recent experience eg; combat/WoT etc
> 
> the man who fits that bill - *Lt.Gen. Tariq Khan*


One of The BEST PA generals!


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## fatman17

this man single-handedly transformed the FC from a rag-tag constabulary to a fighting arm. mingles with his troops, eats the same food, feels for their problems - who wouldnt want this guy to lead them.

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## Amaa'n

fatman17 said:


> 1. commanded at least a Corps.
> 2. must be from the fighting arms. infantry/artillery/armour
> 3. must be leader of men. a professional soldier.
> 4. recent experience eg; combat/WoT etc
> 
> the man who fits that bill - Lt.Gen. Tariq Khan


you are forgetting Gen Haroon, he might not be the choice of Army but he will surely be the choice of Govt due to his favoritism towards US. If we want to repair the dialogue between both countries he might have a role to play here. And i believe this is why ganja NS said that appointment will be based on seniority, since Gen. Haroon is the most senior after COAS.

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## Irfan Baloch

Haseebullah said:


> *The performance of FC during his tenure speaks alot about him*. He turned FC from an unprofessional militia into a formidable force.




his performance and ability will be ignored and may become his handicap.
Nawaz Sherif has vowed to ignore merit and performance and will follow the civil bureaucracy promotion rule of the most senior and most arse licker to be his next COAS, someone who wont be a danger to his crown. someone like a lame duck like General Jahangir Karamat.

in military, your seniority is not the guarantee of your promotion and the position but your ability and outstanding performance but when a Tiger with hair implants has promised that he will stick to the same rule as he uses in his party or the civilian administration then forget anyone worthy making a COAS

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## naumananjum

My vote for Zaheer ul islam
.

Whoever will be the next
but it will be a very big decision for Nawaz sharif


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## Irfan Baloch

fatman17 said:


> this man single-handedly transformed the FC from a rag-tag constabulary to a fighting arm. mingles with his troops, eats the same food, feels for their problems - who wouldnt want this guy to lead them.



dream on sir, this wont happen
if it does then I will happily eat my hat and post a proof of that.

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## Irfan Baloch

muse said:


> I do not know



none and not even my choice Lt Gen Tariq khan who has no "risk" of becoming a OCAS due to his charisma and presence
our Amir AL momineen the King of Raiwand will never appoint anyone who can overshadow his personality

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## TaimiKhan

fatman17 said:


> 1. commanded at least a Corps.
> 2. must be from the fighting arms. infantry/artillery/armour
> 3. must be leader of men. a professional soldier.
> 4. recent experience eg; combat/WoT etc
> 
> the man who fits that bill - Lt.Gen. Tariq Khan



1. Haroon Aslam fits in this criteria
2. Fits here too.
3. Fits here too, you do know he went with the first wave leading his men in the battle of peochar, lead the largest heli airborne assault in history of Pakistan and i think world's largest heli assault at such altitude. He is one true leader and he commanded lot of respect of his SSG men, i believe more then what Tariq Khan ever received from his FC men. 
4. He fits this criteria. 

So he fits in all 4 and being the senior most, i think he should get the job. Tariq Khan with his stories of pro-american stand in my opinion is a no no.

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## Patriots

1)	Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam, HI(M), SBt, AK  Chief of Logistics Staff (CLS), GHQ. (Colonel Commandant of the Azad Kashmir Regiment). Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
2)	Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood, HI(M), Baloch  Chief of General Staff (CGS), GHQ. Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
3)	Lt Gen Tariq Khan, HI(M), AC  Commander, I Corps, Mangla. (Colonel Commandant of the Armoured Corps). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
4)	Lt Gen Muhammad Zaheerul Islam, HI(M), Punjab  DG Inter-Services Intelligence (DG ISI), ISI Dte, Islamabad. (Colonel Commandant of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.

List of serving generals of the Pakistan Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All 4 general will be retired in 2014 right after Kayani then what would they need to be promoted as COAS to giving extension  It will be better if nominate some junior but competent generals who will be retired after 3 or 4 years ..

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## muse

Irfan Baloch said:


> none and not even my choice Lt Gen Tariq khan who has no "risk" of becoming a OCAS due to his charisma and presence
> our Amir AL momineen the King of Raiwand will never appoint anyone who can overshadow his personality



Irfan, under the general framework of "right man for the job" I've been asking, what Job or mission, which transformation of the institution? All I have got thus far are the same old manage politicians and the Americans, but those are givens

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## Irfan Baloch

muse said:


> Irfan, under the general framework of "right man for the job" I've been asking, what Job or mission, which transformation of the institution? All I have got thus far are the same old manage politicians and the Americans, but those are givens



in that case, what I have read, heard and seen, Tariq Khan inspired the officers and soldiers under his command, he is a good speaker and leader, he transformed the FC, served outside Pakistan during the Gulf war and got recognition, is from the main fighting arm, armor corps, for a change not a Punjabi (so wont give usual whiners another reason to cry foul). people who have served under him have only good good things to say about him.

thats as good as it can get when it comes to Pakistan army of present time, so thats my take re "right man for the job"

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## viper46

the right general will be the one who take his appointment and boot this scum democrazy back to the prison area.

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## niaz

Seniority is a consideration only in that it makes one eligible for promotion to very senior military ranks (Major General & above). It does not guarantee it; past performance and leadership potential are the most important considerations. 

Leadership and man management capabilities as well as weaknesses show up during the time when a person commands a division (essentially a mini army) as a 2-star General. Therefore all those who attain a 3-star rank in the fighting branches (Infantry, Artillery & Armour) are assumed to be competent enough to command the army.

However, promotion to the COAS or head of any of the armed services always had political undertones. Outgoing chief may recommend but final decision always rests with the President (United States) or the Prime Minister (United Kingdom), same holds true in Pakistan.

Therefore it is not guaranteed that the future COAS of Pakistan Army will be from the 4 senior most Lt Generals.

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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

Haseebullah said:


> While he was IG FC during the War of Bajaur his son got kidnapped and kidnappers demands were against the interest of the state but within his power.
> His son returned in pieces.



what can i say  i have got no words for this man of patriotism ... 

Long L|||ve PakisTan army ... PaksiTan ZindahBaaD ...


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## TaimiKhan

Patriots said:


> 1)	Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam, HI(M), SBt, AK &#8212; Chief of Logistics Staff (CLS), GHQ. (Colonel Commandant of the Azad Kashmir Regiment). Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
> 2)	Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood, HI(M), Baloch &#8212; Chief of General Staff (CGS), GHQ. Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
> 3)	Lt Gen Tariq Khan, HI(M), AC &#8212; Commander, I Corps, Mangla. (Colonel Commandant of the Armoured Corps). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> 4)	Lt Gen Muhammad Zaheerul Islam, HI(M), Punjab &#8212; DG Inter-Services Intelligence (DG ISI), ISI Dte, Islamabad. (Colonel Commandant of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> 
> List of serving generals of the Pakistan Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> All 4 general will be retired in 2014 right after Kayani then what would they need to be promoted as COAS to giving extension &#8230; It will be better if nominate some junior but competent generals who will be retired after 3 or 4 years &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..



Their retirement is not due to age factor, rather it happens when your service tenure in one specific rank is reached, so lets suppose if these 4 Lt Gens are getting retired in 2014 after having reached 33 years of service, a promotion to the rank of full Gen will most probably 3 more years in their service, thus extension is out of question then. 

In army you serve as per the years reserved against each rank reached. An officer if reaches the rank of a captain, will retire after having done 20 years of service, a Major at 25, a Lt Col at 27, a full Colonel at 29, Brigadier at 31 and so on. 

So if any of these 4 generals get promoted in 2013, it will automatically add 3 more years in their service tenure.

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## Patriots

TaimiKhan said:


> Their retirement is not due to age factor, rather it happens when your service tenure in one specific rank is reached, so lets suppose if these 4 Lt Gens are getting retired in 2014 after having reached 33 years of service, a promotion to the rank of full Gen will most probably 3 more years in their service, thus extension is out of question then.
> 
> In army you serve as per the years reserved against each rank reached. An officer if reaches the rank of a captain, will retire after having done 20 years of service, a Major at 25, a Lt Col at 27, a full Colonel at 29, Brigadier at 31 and so on.
> 
> So if any of these 4 generals get promoted in 2013, it will automatically add 3 more years in their service tenure.



Thanx to sharing nice information ...........


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## Last Hope

What about the current X-Corp commander?


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## Saleem

Alpha1 said:


> Indeed!!!!!!
> 
> 
> One of The BEST PA generals!



he is a traitor and needs to be weeded out....


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## Alpha1

Saleem said:


> he is a traitor and needs to be weeded out....


Kindly please elaborate!


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## Haseebullah

TaimiKhan said:


> Their retirement is not due to age factor, rather it happens when your service tenure in one specific rank is reached, so lets suppose if these 4 Lt Gens are getting retired in 2014 after having reached 33 years of service, a promotion to the rank of full Gen will most probably 3 more years in their service, thus extension is out of question then.
> 
> In army you serve as per the years reserved against each rank reached. An officer if reaches the rank of a captain, will retire after having done 20 years of service, a Major at 25, a Lt Col at 27, a full Colonel at 29, Brigadier at 31 and so on.
> 
> So if any of these 4 generals get promoted in 2013, it will automatically add 3 more years in their service tenure.



A per the new policy the Major serves longer than a Lt Col and full Col. Correct me if I am wrong. I think they introduced this a few months back.


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## Bang Galore

I believe that it is important that Pakistan set the precedent of appointing the senior most Lt.General as the CoAS. While I'm aware that an argument is being made about merit v/s seniority, may I submit that is inherently contradictory. A person making Lt.General must be regarded as competent _(unless proven otherwise) _& someone distinguishing themselves well when commanding is necessarily an outcome of being the officer in charge of that action, i.e. no way to decide whether the other contenders are less competent or not _(unless everyone participated in the same action)._

I say seniority is important for the following reasons:

If that be made the criteria, jostling for position, including by cosying up to the rulers to be seen as a choice will largely be avoided. Even the perception of that is bad news. Secondly, any junior officer being promoted will, other than the inevitable bad blood, face an unsubstantiable but gossipable charge of being someone's favourite. That could go two ways, that someone so selected might have a chip in their shoulder & be eager to prove themselves tough _(Musharraf comes to mind)_ or to show the Army that he is no pushover & a puppet of the establishment, would take a hard line against the government's position, whether warranted or not, to burnish his image.

The best course is to give the senior-most commander fitting all criteria the position & announcing that it is the way future appointments will happen. It works for the Indian army, this might be one practice that Pakistan might do well to borrow.

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## A.Rafay

Haroon Aslam is the best choice.


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## Manindra

In India , Senior most Lt. General promoted to COAS & serves at this position till their retiring age .
But here I see exact opposite some one say COAS service tenure is for 3 year in not context of their age & people guess who could become COAS not senior most .


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## Zarvan

Irfan Baloch said:


> in that case, what I have read, heard and seen, Tariq Khan inspired the officers and soldiers under his command, he is a good speaker and leader, he transformed the FC, served outside Pakistan during the Gulf war and got recognition, is from the main fighting arm, armor corps, for a change not a Punjabi (so wont give usual whiners another reason to cry foul). people who have served under him have only good good things to say about him.
> 
> thats as good as it can get when it comes to Pakistan army of present time, so thats my take re "right man for the job"


Among senior Generals is any one by the name of Janjuja too ?

General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, NI(M), HI, Baloch &#8212; Chief of Army Staff (COAS), GHQ. (Colonel-in-Chief of the Baloch Regiment). Due to retire on 28 November 2013'.[1]
General Khalid Shameem Wynne, NI(M), Punjab &#8212; Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC), JSHQ, Chaklala. (Colonel-in-Chief of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 6 October 2013.
Lt Gen Khalid Nawaz Khan, HI(M), Baloch[2] &#8212; Commander, X Corps, Rawalpindi. (Colonel Commandant of the Baloch Regiment). Due to retire on 4 October 2013.
Lt Gen Muhammad Alam Khattak, HI(M), TBt, FF &#8212; Commander, XII Corps, Quetta. (Colonel Commandant of the Frontier Force Regiment). Due to retire on 4 October 2013.
Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam, HI(M), SBt, AK[3] &#8212; Chief of Logistics Staff (CLS), GHQ. (Colonel Commandant of the Azad Kashmir Regiment). Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood, HI(M), Baloch[3] &#8212; Chief of General Staff (CGS), GHQ. Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
Lt Gen Raheel Sharif, HI(M), FF[4] &#8212; Inspector General Training and Evaluation (IGT&E), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
Lt Gen Tariq Khan, HI(M), AC &#8212; Commander, I Corps, Mangla. (Colonel Commandant of the Armoured Corps). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
Lt Gen Muhammad Zaheerul Islam, HI(M), Punjab[5] &#8212; DG Inter-Services Intelligence (DG ISI), ISI Dte, Islamabad. (Colonel Commandant of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
Lt Gen Salim Nawaz, HI(M), SBt, Baloch[6] &#8212; Inspector General Armaments (IGA), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
Lt Gen Khalid Rabbani, HI(M), Punjab[7] &#8212; Commander, XI Corps, Peshawar. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
Lt Gen Muzammil Hussain, HI(M), Baloch[4] &#8212; Commander, XXX Corps, Gujranwala. (Colonel Commandant of the Northern Light Infantry Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
Lt Gen Sajjad Ghani, HI(M), Engrs[8] &#8212; Quarter-Master General (QMG), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
Lt Gen Muhammad Ahsan Mahmood, HI(M), Engrs[9] &#8212; Chairman, Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF), Wah Cantonment. Due to retire on 15 April 2015.
Lt Gen Muhammad Asif, HI(M), Sind[10] &#8212; DG Joint Staff (DG JS), JSHQ, Chaklala. (Colonel Commandant of the Sind Regiment). Due to retire on 15 April 2015.
Lt Gen Abid Pervaiz, HI(M), AC[11] &#8212; Commander, II Corps, Multan. Due to retire on 15 April 2015.
Lt Gen Javed Iqbal, HI(M), FF[10] &#8212; Adjutant General (AG), GHQ. Due to retire on 15 April 2015.
*Lt Gen Nasser Khan Janjua, HI(M), Punjab[12] &#8212; President, National Defence University (NDU), Islamabad. Due to retire on 4 October 2015.* this man is my uncle close friend he can become 4 star general in future 
Lt Gen Syed Tariq Nadeem Gilani, HI(M), Arty[9] &#8212; Commander, Army Strategic Forces Command (Comd ASFC), Rawalpindi. (Colonel Commandant of the Regiment of Artillery). Due to retire on 4 October 2015.
Lt Gen Muhammad Ijaz Chaudhry, HI(M), Arty[5] &#8212; Commander, V Corps, Karachi. Due to retire on 4 October 2015.
Lt Gen Naweed Zaman, HI(M), Punjab[9] &#8212; Military Secretary (MS), GHQ. Due to retire on 4 October 2015.
Lt Gen Maqsood Ahmad, HI(M), FF[3] &#8212; Commander, IV Corps, Lahore. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.
Lt Gen Zubair Mahmood Hayat, HI(M), Arty[3] &#8212; Commander, XXXI Corps, Bahawalpur. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.
Lt Gen Syed Wajid Hussain, HI(M), AC[3] &#8212; Chairman, Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT), Taxila. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.
Lt Gen Najib Ullah Khan, HI(M), Engrs[3] &#8212; Engineer-in-Chief (E-in-C), GHQ. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.
Maj Gen Muhammad Farooq Iqbal, HI(M), Ord (superseded) &#8212; Commander, Logistics Area (Comd Log Area), Rawalpindi. (Colonel Commandant of the Army Ordnance Corps).
Maj Gen Abdul Qadir Khan Shahid, HI(M), AD[13] (superseded) &#8212; DG Army Air Defence (DG AD) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Ausaf Ali, HI(M), Engrs[14] (superseded) &#8212; DG Operations and Plans at Strategic Plans Division (SPD), Chaklala.
Maj Gen Tariq Rashid Khan, HI(M), Arty[15] (superseded) &#8212; Additional Secretary at Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Tahir Ashraf Khan, HI(M), Inf[16] (superseded) &#8212; DG Defence Export Promotion Organization (DG DEPO), Islamabad.
Maj Gen Obaid Bin Zakria, HI(M), EME[17] (superseded) &#8212; Commandant, College of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering (Comdt CE&ME), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Muhammad Khalid Rao, HI(M), Sigs[18] (superseded) &#8212; DG Special Communication Organization (DG SCO), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Kaleem Saber Taseer, HI(M), Arty (superseded) &#8212; DG Artillery (DG Arty) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Ghulam Dastagir, HI(M), Punjab[19] (superseded) &#8212; DG Organization and Methods (DG O&M) at IGT&E Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Rehan Bashir, HI(M), SI, EME[20] (superseded) &#8212; DG Project Management Organization (DG PMO), Khanpur.
Maj Gen Junaid Rehmat, HI(M), Engrs[21] (superseded) &#8212; DG Welfare and Rehabilation (DG W&R) at AG Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Waqar Ahmed, HI(M), Sigs[22] (superseded) &#8212; Signal Officer-in-Chief (SO-in-C) at C&IT Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Ziauddin Najam, HI(M), Arty[23] (superseded) &#8212; DG Institute of Strategic Studies, Research and Analysis (DG ISSRA) at NDU, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Shahid Ahmed Hashmat, HI(M), Punjab (superseded) &#8212; DG Personnel Administration (DG PA) at MS Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Muhammad Tahir, HI(M), Avn[24] (superseded) &#8212; DG (Security) at SPD, Chaklala.
Maj Gen Muhammad Azeem Asif, HI(M), Engrs[25] (superseded) &#8212; Deputy Chairman, Earthquake Reconstruction & Rehabilitation Authority (ERRA), Islamabad.
Maj Gen Javaid Iqbal Nasar, HI(M), Arty (superseded) &#8212; DG National Guard (DG NG), GHQ.
Maj Gen Raza Muhammad, HI(M), Sind (superseded) &#8212; DG (B) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Khawar Hanif, HI(M), Punjab[26] (superseded) &#8212; DG Doctrine and Evaluation (DG D&E) at IGT&E Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Farrukh Bashir, HI(M), Punjab[17] (superseded) &#8212; DG Defence Security Guards (DG DSG), GHQ.
Maj Gen Syed Jamal Shahid, HI(M), EME (superseded) &#8212; DG Inspectorate of Technical Development (DG ITD) at C&IT Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Sajid Iqbal, HI(M), ASC (superseded) &#8212; .
Maj Gen Muhammad Farrukh Rashid, HI(M), Punjab[27] &#8212; DG Military Training (DG MT) at IGT&E Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Ishfaq Nadeem Ahmad, HI(M), AK[10] &#8212; DG Military Operations (DG MO) at CGS Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Noel Israel Khokhar, HI(M), Arty[23] &#8212; Chief Instructor, A-Division (CI A-Div) at NDU, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Tahir Masood, HI(M), AD[28] &#8212; DG Military Lands and Cantonments (DG ML&C), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Changez Dil Khan, HI(M), AC &#8212; DG Armoured Corps (DG AC) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Zamir Ul Hassan Shah, HI(M), TBt, AD &#8212; Commander, Army Air Defence Command (Comd AAD Comd), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Javed Iqbal, HI(M), Sind[23] &#8212; Chief Instructor, B-Division (CI B-Div) at NDU, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa, HI(M), Baloch[29] &#8212; Commandant, School of Infantry and Tactics (Comdt SI&T), Quetta.
Maj Gen Sahibzada Isfandiyar Ali Khan Pataudi, HI(M), AC[5] &#8212; DG (Analysis) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Khalid Asghar, HI(M), Engrs &#8212; Inspector General Communications and IT (IG Comm&IT), GHQ.
Maj Gen Shaukat Iqbal, HI(M), Arty &#8212; .
Maj Gen Muhammad Saad Khattak, HI(M), AK &#8212; Deputy Inspector General Armaments (DIG Arms) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Sajjad Ali Khan, HI(M), FF[17] &#8212; DG Quartering and Lands (DG Q&L) at QMG Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Khalid Mahmood, HI(M), AK[30] &#8212; DG Infantry (DG Inf) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Mazhar Jamil, HI(M), Arty[17] &#8212; Vice Chief of General Staff (VCGS-A) at CGS Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Faiz Muhammad Khan Bangash, HI(M), Ord &#8212; .
Maj Gen Muhammad Zahid Latif Mirza, HI(M), AD[19] &#8212; DG Personnel Services (DG PS) at MS Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Abid Hasan, HI(M), Baloch &#8212; DG Operations and Plans (DG O&P) at JSHQ, Chaklala.
Maj Gen Ikram Ul Haq, HI(M), AK &#8212; .
Maj Gen Nasrullah Tahir Dogar, HI(M), FF &#8212; .
Maj Gen Allah Ditta Khan, HI(M), Arty[19] &#8212; GOC 21st Artillery Division, Pano Aqil.
Maj Gen Imtiaz Hussain Sherazi, HI(M), SE, ASC[31] &#8212; DG Remount, Veterinary and Farms Corps (DG RV&FC) at AG Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Muhammad Tauqeer Ahmad, HI(M), ASC[32] &#8212; Managing Director, Pakistan Agricultural Storage and Service Corp. (MD PASSCO), Lahore.
Maj Gen Agha Masood Akram, HI(M), FF &#8212; .
Maj Gen Inam Ul Haque, HI(M), FF[33] &#8212; DG Foreign Military Cooperation (DG FMC) at JSHQ, Chaklala.
Maj Gen Sohail Ahmad Khan, HI(M), Punjab[34] &#8212; Commandant, Command and Staff College (Comdt C&SC), Quetta.
Maj Gen Muhammad Imran Zafar, HI(M), Engrs[35] &#8212; DG Housing at AG Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Obaid Ullah Khan Khattak, HI(M), Arty[36] &#8212; IG Frontier Corps (IGFC Balochistan), Quetta.
Maj Gen Naveed Ahmed, HI(M), Arty[19] &#8212; Commander, Logistics Area (Comd Log Area), Karachi.
Maj Gen Sohail Abbas Zaidi, HI(M), Sigs[35] &#8212; DG (Technical) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Naushad Ahmed Kayani, HI(M), Punjab[37] &#8212; DG Military Intelligence (DG MI) at CGS Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Rizwan Akhtar, HI(M), FF[5] &#8212; DG Rangers (Sindh), Karachi.[38]
Maj Gen Shahzad Sikander, HI(M), Engrs &#8212; DG Works and Chief Engineer (DG W&CE) at E-in-C Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Mian Mohammad Hilal Hussain, HI(M), Arty[39] &#8212; DG Rangers (Punjab), Lahore.
Maj Gen Tariq Javed, HI(M), AK &#8212; .
Maj Gen Ghayur Mahmood, HI(M), TBt, FF[17] &#8212; IG Frontier Corps (IGFC Khyber Pakhtunkhwa), Peshawar.[40]
Maj Gen Asghar Nawaz, HI(M), Engrs[41] &#8212; DG National Logistics Cell (DG NLC), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Nadir Zeb, HI(M), AC[17] &#8212; DG Human Resources Development (DG HRD) at IGT&E Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Muhammad Iqbal Asi, HI(M), Sind[42] &#8212; Force Commander, United Nations Operation in Côte d'Ivoire (UNOCI), Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire.
Maj Gen Nazir Ahmed Butt, HI(M), FF[43] &#8212; GOC 9th Infantry Division, Wana, South Waziristan.[44]
Maj Gen Jamil Rehmat Vance, HI(M), ASC &#8212; DG Logistics (DG Log) at CLS Branch, GHQ
Maj Gen Muhammad Ejaz Shahid, HI(M), Arty[45] &#8212; DG Weapons and Equipment (DG W&E) at QMG Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Amir Azeem Bajwa, HI(M), Sigs &#8212; DG C4I at C&IT Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Tariq Ghafoor, HI(M), FF &#8212; DG Joint Intelligence and Information Operations (DG JI&IO) at JSHQ, Chaklala.
Maj Gen Iftikhar Ahmad Wyne, AC &#8212; Chief of Staff, Central Command (COS CC), Kharian.
Maj Gen Naveed Mukhtar, AC[19] &#8212; DG (Counter-Terrorism) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Sadiq Ali, AC[17] &#8212; Commandant, Pakistan Military Academy (Comdt PMA), Kakul.
Maj Gen Maqsood Ahmad Abbasi, Arty &#8212; .
Maj Gen Farhan Akhtar, Arty[19] &#8212; DG (P), at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Javed Mahmood Bukhari, Engrs[46] &#8212; DG Frontier Works Organisation (DG FWO), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Muhammad Abid Nazir, Inf[19] &#8212; Commander, Logistics Area (Comd Log Area), Peshawar.
Maj Gen Hidayat Ur Rehman, AK[17] &#8212; GOC 14th Infantry Division, Okara.[47]
Maj Gen Muhammad Arif Warraich, Inf[19] &#8212; GOC 16th Infantry Division, Pano Aqil.
Maj Gen Malik Zafar Iqbal, Inf[25] &#8212; DG Anti-Narcotics Force (DG ANF), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Anwar Ali Hyder, Inf &#8212; DG Staff Duties (DG SD) at COAS Secretariat, GHQ.
Maj Gen Sajjad Rasul, SBt, Inf &#8212; DG (Security) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Shahid Baig Mirza, Inf[48] &#8212; GOC 10th Infantry Division, Lahore.
Maj Gen Asim Saleem Bajwa, TBt, Inf[17] &#8212; DG Inter-Services Public Relations (DG ISPR), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Umar Farooq Durrani, AC[17] &#8212; GOC 1st Armoured Division, Multan.
Maj Gen Ahmad Mahmood Hayat, AC[49] &#8212; GOC 40th Infantry Division, Dera Ismail Khan.[50]
Maj Gen Muhammad Ali Cheema, Pakistan military School Faisalabad.
Maj Gen Tariq Masood Malik, Arty &#8212; .
Maj Gen Khan Tahir Javed Khan, SBt, Arty &#8212; .
Maj Gen Muhammad Saleem Raza, AD[13] &#8212; GOC 4th Air Defence Division, Malir.
Maj Gen Mazhar Saleem Khan, Punjab[51] &#8212; GOC 41st Infantry Division, Quetta.
Maj Gen Muhammad Jaffer, FF[52] &#8212; GOC 8th Infantry Division, Sialkot.
Maj Gen Syed Najam ul Hassan Shah, Sind[53] &#8212; GOC 12th Infantry Division, Murree.[54]
Maj Gen Ghulam Qamar, FF[55] &#8212; GOC 19th Infantry Division, Swat.[56]
Maj Gen Ali Abbas Hyder, SBt, Baloch[57] &#8212; GOC 7th Infantry Division, Miranshah, North Waziristan.[58]
Maj Gen Aamer Riaz, FF[59] &#8212; GOC 11th Infantry Division, Lahore.
Maj Gen Abid Rafique, Punjab[60] &#8212; GOC Special Services Group (GOC SSG), Cherat.
Maj Gen Muhammad Asif Khattak, CMI[17] &#8212; Commander, Logistics Area (Comd Log Area), Gujranwala.
Maj Gen Muhammad Junaid, TI(M), EME[17] &#8212; DG Defence Science and Technology Organization (DG DESTO), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Umar Farooq Barki, AC[61] &#8212; GOC 6th Armoured Division, Gujranwala.
Maj Gen Muhammad Shafiq, AC &#8212; GOC 26th Mechanised Division, Bahawalpur.
Maj Gen Mussarat Nawaz Malik, Arty[62] &#8212; GOC 35th Infantry Division, Bahawalpur.
Maj Gen Naseer Ali Khan, Arty &#8212; Chief of Staff, Southern Command (COS SC), Quetta.
Maj Gen Muhammad Irshad, Arty &#8212; Commandant, School of Artillery (Comdt SoA), Nowshera.
Maj Gen Samrez Salik, Arty[63] &#8212; GOC 33rd Infantry Division, Quetta.
Maj Gen Akhtar Jamil Rao, Engrs &#8212; GOC 45th Engineers Division, Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Sana Ullah Khan, Inf &#8212; GOC 17th Infantry Division, Swat.
Maj Gen Hafiz Masroor Ahmed, Inf &#8212; Commander, Force Command Gilgit-Baltistan (Comd FCGB), Gilgit.[64]
Maj Gen Nasir Dilawar Shah, Avn &#8212; DG (Counterintelligence) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
Maj Gen Arshad Mahmood, ASC &#8212; DG Supply and Transport (DG S&T) at CLS Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Tariq Haleem Suri, Ord &#8212; DG Ordnance Services (DG OS) at QMG Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Omar Mahmood Hayat, Ord &#8212; DG Procurement (Army) at DG DP, Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Rehan Abdul Baqi, EME &#8212; DG Military Vehicles, Research and Development Establishment (DG MVRDE), Rawalpindi.
Maj Gen Khalid Mehmood, EME &#8212; DG Electrical and Mechanical Engineering (DG EME) at C&IT Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Sarfraz Sattar, AC &#8212; .
Maj Gen Mohammed Naeem Ashraf, AC[19] &#8212; GOC 25th Mechanised Division, Karachi.
Maj Gen Hamayun Aziz, Arty[19] &#8212; GOC 2nd Artillery Division, Gujranwala
Maj Gen Qazi Muhammad Ikram Ahmad, Arty &#8212; .
Maj Gen Syed Shafqat Asghar, Arty &#8212; .
Maj Gen Muhammad Hamayun Saleem, Arty &#8212; .
Maj Gen Bilal Akbar, Arty &#8212; .
Maj Gen Farhat Abbas Sani, AD[19] &#8212; GOC 3rd Air Defence Division, Sargodha.
Maj Gen Muhammad Ajmal Iqbal, &#8212; .
Maj Gen Anwar Ul Haq Chaudhry, Engrs[19] &#8212; Commandant, Military College of Engineering (Comdt MCE), Risalpur.
Maj Gen Muhammad Afzal, &#8212; .
Maj Gen Faheem Ul Aziz, Inf &#8212; .
Maj Gen Nadeem Raza, Inf &#8212; .
Maj Gen Muhammad Tayyab Azam, Inf[19] &#8212; Sector Commander, ISI Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Peshawer.
Maj Gen Raja Aftab Khan, Inf[19] &#8212; Sector Commander, ISI Punjab, Lahore.
Maj Gen Sher Afgun, Inf &#8212; GOC 23rd Inf division,jhelum.
Maj Gen Amer Aslam Khan, TBt, Baloch[19] &#8212; GOC 15th Infantry Division, Sialkot.
Maj Gen Abid Ejaz Kahloon, Inf &#8212; .
Maj Gen Anjum Enayat &#8212; .
Maj Gen Iftikhar Aamir[19] &#8212; Sector Commander, ISI Balochistan, Quetta.
Maj Gen Mushtaq Ahmad Faisal[19] &#8212; Vice Chief of Logistics Staff (VCLS) at CLS Branch, GHQ.
Maj Gen Qaiser Anees Khurram &#8212; .
Maj Gen Mohammad Muazzam Ali, EME[19] &#8212; DG Heavy Industries Taxila (DG HIT), Taxila.


----------



## Guest01

airmarshal said:


> You know why I said leadership? See General Musharraf after March 9, 2007. That when he got real challenge ot his rule after he dismissed CJ. Most of his decisions were blunders after that date.
> 
> The excuse put forth he was a General and not politician does not stick. He was willingly there. So he must have been equipped, by Army training to take tough and right decisions under pressure. He failed on this count.
> 
> So seniority to me is a lesser criteria than leadership. COAS is a leadership role. Not a seniority role. In Pakistan we stress on seniority which is not a criteria at all here in West.



So then can we assume that you suggest that Pakistan should plan ahead for another scenario where the next COAS will dismiss the civilian government and hence come up with the choice of decision that you think Musharraf failed at?


----------



## Amaa'n

manindra said:


> In India , Senior most Lt. General promoted to COAS & serves at this position till their retiring age .
> But here I see exact opposite some one say COAS service tenure is for 3 year in not context of their age & people guess who could become COAS not senior most .


my dear we are not here to discuss Indian Army's rules, lets stick to the topic. Every Military force around the world has its own rules and code of conduct. One example is US where promotion is based on experience and traits rather than being senior



Guest01 said:


> So then can we assume that you suggest that Pakistan should plan ahead for another scenario where the next COAS will dismiss the civilian government and hence come up with the choice of decision that you think Musharraf failed at?



one should always have a contingency plan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Manindra

balixd said:


> my dear we are not here to discuss Indian Army's rules, lets stick to the topic. Every Military force around the world has its own rules and code of conduct. One example is US where promotion is based on experience and traits rather than being senior



India pakistan both have British legacy armed forces thus why both have same chain of command but why there are difference in selection of COAS


----------



## Amaa'n

manindra said:


> India pakistan both have British legacy armed forces thus why both have same chain of command but why there are difference in selection of COAS



just because we have similar chain of command and legacy does not mean we should jump in the pool full of sharks......
you will always have one person on the same ranks with more traits. No one is diminishing any General here. Whoever makes to top has already proven themselves of worthy but as I said you will always find someone with better traits.


----------



## Ark-Angel

I'd love to see Tariq Khan as next CGS.
Everyone is talking about who next Chief will be and forgetting the fact that CJSC (GENERAL Khalid) is due to retire on 6 October 2013.
Rashad Mahmood na hon promote bus.


----------



## Ark-Angel

genmirajborgza786 said:


> in my opinion Lt. General Rashad should be the next COAS



He is not liked by majority of Army officers.


----------



## Ark-Angel

Haseebullah said:


> While he was IG FC during the War of Bajaur his son got kidnapped and kidnappers demands were against the interest of the state but within his power.
> His son returned in pieces.



No. Nothing such happened.



Haseebullah said:


> You really think something like this would have a news report/article. I know this from a person who served under him while this happened in Bajaur that is.


Your report is inaccurate. I belong to a military family and I know Tariq Khan personally.


----------



## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

Zarvan said:


> Among senior Generals is any one by the name of Janjuja too ?
> 
> General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, NI(M), HI, Baloch &#8212; Chief of Army Staff (COAS), GHQ. (Colonel-in-Chief of the Baloch Regiment). Due to retire on 28 November 2013'.[1]
> General Khalid Shameem Wynne, NI(M), Punjab &#8212; Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC), JSHQ, Chaklala. (Colonel-in-Chief of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 6 October 2013.
> Lt Gen Khalid Nawaz Khan, HI(M), Baloch[2] &#8212; Commander, X Corps, Rawalpindi. (Colonel Commandant of the Baloch Regiment). Due to retire on 4 October 2013.
> Lt Gen Muhammad Alam Khattak, HI(M), TBt, FF &#8212; Commander, XII Corps, Quetta. (Colonel Commandant of the Frontier Force Regiment). Due to retire on 4 October 2013.
> Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam, HI(M), SBt, AK[3] &#8212; Chief of Logistics Staff (CLS), GHQ. (Colonel Commandant of the Azad Kashmir Regiment). Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
> Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood, HI(M), Baloch[3] &#8212; Chief of General Staff (CGS), GHQ. Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
> Lt Gen Raheel Sharif, HI(M), FF[4] &#8212; Inspector General Training and Evaluation (IGT&E), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> Lt Gen Tariq Khan, HI(M), AC &#8212; Commander, I Corps, Mangla. (Colonel Commandant of the Armoured Corps). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> Lt Gen Muhammad Zaheerul Islam, HI(M), Punjab[5] &#8212; DG Inter-Services Intelligence (DG ISI), ISI Dte, Islamabad. (Colonel Commandant of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> Lt Gen Salim Nawaz, HI(M), SBt, Baloch[6] &#8212; Inspector General Armaments (IGA), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> Lt Gen Khalid Rabbani, HI(M), Punjab[7] &#8212; Commander, XI Corps, Peshawar. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> Lt Gen Muzammil Hussain, HI(M), Baloch[4] &#8212; Commander, XXX Corps, Gujranwala. (Colonel Commandant of the Northern Light Infantry Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> Lt Gen Sajjad Ghani, HI(M), Engrs[8] &#8212; Quarter-Master General (QMG), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> Lt Gen Muhammad Ahsan Mahmood, HI(M), Engrs[9] &#8212; Chairman, Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF), Wah Cantonment. Due to retire on 15 April 2015.
> Lt Gen Muhammad Asif, HI(M), Sind[10] &#8212; DG Joint Staff (DG JS), JSHQ, Chaklala. (Colonel Commandant of the Sind Regiment). Due to retire on 15 April 2015.
> Lt Gen Abid Pervaiz, HI(M), AC[11] &#8212; Commander, II Corps, Multan. Due to retire on 15 April 2015.
> Lt Gen Javed Iqbal, HI(M), FF[10] &#8212; Adjutant General (AG), GHQ. Due to retire on 15 April 2015.
> *Lt Gen Nasser Khan Janjua, HI(M), Punjab[12] &#8212; President, National Defence University (NDU), Islamabad. Due to retire on 4 October 2015.* this man is my uncle close friend he can become 4 star general in future
> Lt Gen Syed Tariq Nadeem Gilani, HI(M), Arty[9] &#8212; Commander, Army Strategic Forces Command (Comd ASFC), Rawalpindi. (Colonel Commandant of the Regiment of Artillery). Due to retire on 4 October 2015.
> Lt Gen Muhammad Ijaz Chaudhry, HI(M), Arty[5] &#8212; Commander, V Corps, Karachi. Due to retire on 4 October 2015.
> Lt Gen Naweed Zaman, HI(M), Punjab[9] &#8212; Military Secretary (MS), GHQ. Due to retire on 4 October 2015.
> Lt Gen Maqsood Ahmad, HI(M), FF[3] &#8212; Commander, IV Corps, Lahore. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.
> Lt Gen Zubair Mahmood Hayat, HI(M), Arty[3] &#8212; Commander, XXXI Corps, Bahawalpur. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.
> Lt Gen Syed Wajid Hussain, HI(M), AC[3] &#8212; Chairman, Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT), Taxila. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.
> Lt Gen Najib Ullah Khan, HI(M), Engrs[3] &#8212; Engineer-in-Chief (E-in-C), GHQ. Due to retire on 13 January 2017.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Farooq Iqbal, HI(M), Ord (superseded) &#8212; Commander, Logistics Area (Comd Log Area), Rawalpindi. (Colonel Commandant of the Army Ordnance Corps).
> Maj Gen Abdul Qadir Khan Shahid, HI(M), AD[13] (superseded) &#8212; DG Army Air Defence (DG AD) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Ausaf Ali, HI(M), Engrs[14] (superseded) &#8212; DG Operations and Plans at Strategic Plans Division (SPD), Chaklala.
> Maj Gen Tariq Rashid Khan, HI(M), Arty[15] (superseded) &#8212; Additional Secretary at Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Tahir Ashraf Khan, HI(M), Inf[16] (superseded) &#8212; DG Defence Export Promotion Organization (DG DEPO), Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Obaid Bin Zakria, HI(M), EME[17] (superseded) &#8212; Commandant, College of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering (Comdt CE&ME), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Khalid Rao, HI(M), Sigs[18] (superseded) &#8212; DG Special Communication Organization (DG SCO), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Kaleem Saber Taseer, HI(M), Arty (superseded) &#8212; DG Artillery (DG Arty) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Ghulam Dastagir, HI(M), Punjab[19] (superseded) &#8212; DG Organization and Methods (DG O&M) at IGT&E Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Rehan Bashir, HI(M), SI, EME[20] (superseded) &#8212; DG Project Management Organization (DG PMO), Khanpur.
> Maj Gen Junaid Rehmat, HI(M), Engrs[21] (superseded) &#8212; DG Welfare and Rehabilation (DG W&R) at AG Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Waqar Ahmed, HI(M), Sigs[22] (superseded) &#8212; Signal Officer-in-Chief (SO-in-C) at C&IT Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Ziauddin Najam, HI(M), Arty[23] (superseded) &#8212; DG Institute of Strategic Studies, Research and Analysis (DG ISSRA) at NDU, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Shahid Ahmed Hashmat, HI(M), Punjab (superseded) &#8212; DG Personnel Administration (DG PA) at MS Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Tahir, HI(M), Avn[24] (superseded) &#8212; DG (Security) at SPD, Chaklala.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Azeem Asif, HI(M), Engrs[25] (superseded) &#8212; Deputy Chairman, Earthquake Reconstruction & Rehabilitation Authority (ERRA), Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Javaid Iqbal Nasar, HI(M), Arty (superseded) &#8212; DG National Guard (DG NG), GHQ.
> Maj Gen Raza Muhammad, HI(M), Sind (superseded) &#8212; DG (B) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Khawar Hanif, HI(M), Punjab[26] (superseded) &#8212; DG Doctrine and Evaluation (DG D&E) at IGT&E Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Farrukh Bashir, HI(M), Punjab[17] (superseded) &#8212; DG Defence Security Guards (DG DSG), GHQ.
> Maj Gen Syed Jamal Shahid, HI(M), EME (superseded) &#8212; DG Inspectorate of Technical Development (DG ITD) at C&IT Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Sajid Iqbal, HI(M), ASC (superseded) &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Muhammad Farrukh Rashid, HI(M), Punjab[27] &#8212; DG Military Training (DG MT) at IGT&E Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Ishfaq Nadeem Ahmad, HI(M), AK[10] &#8212; DG Military Operations (DG MO) at CGS Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Noel Israel Khokhar, HI(M), Arty[23] &#8212; Chief Instructor, A-Division (CI A-Div) at NDU, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Tahir Masood, HI(M), AD[28] &#8212; DG Military Lands and Cantonments (DG ML&C), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Changez Dil Khan, HI(M), AC &#8212; DG Armoured Corps (DG AC) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Zamir Ul Hassan Shah, HI(M), TBt, AD &#8212; Commander, Army Air Defence Command (Comd AAD Comd), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Javed Iqbal, HI(M), Sind[23] &#8212; Chief Instructor, B-Division (CI B-Div) at NDU, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa, HI(M), Baloch[29] &#8212; Commandant, School of Infantry and Tactics (Comdt SI&T), Quetta.
> Maj Gen Sahibzada Isfandiyar Ali Khan Pataudi, HI(M), AC[5] &#8212; DG (Analysis) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Khalid Asghar, HI(M), Engrs &#8212; Inspector General Communications and IT (IG Comm&IT), GHQ.
> Maj Gen Shaukat Iqbal, HI(M), Arty &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Muhammad Saad Khattak, HI(M), AK &#8212; Deputy Inspector General Armaments (DIG Arms) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Sajjad Ali Khan, HI(M), FF[17] &#8212; DG Quartering and Lands (DG Q&L) at QMG Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Khalid Mahmood, HI(M), AK[30] &#8212; DG Infantry (DG Inf) at IGA Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Mazhar Jamil, HI(M), Arty[17] &#8212; Vice Chief of General Staff (VCGS-A) at CGS Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Faiz Muhammad Khan Bangash, HI(M), Ord &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Muhammad Zahid Latif Mirza, HI(M), AD[19] &#8212; DG Personnel Services (DG PS) at MS Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Abid Hasan, HI(M), Baloch &#8212; DG Operations and Plans (DG O&P) at JSHQ, Chaklala.
> Maj Gen Ikram Ul Haq, HI(M), AK &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Nasrullah Tahir Dogar, HI(M), FF &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Allah Ditta Khan, HI(M), Arty[19] &#8212; GOC 21st Artillery Division, Pano Aqil.
> Maj Gen Imtiaz Hussain Sherazi, HI(M), SE, ASC[31] &#8212; DG Remount, Veterinary and Farms Corps (DG RV&FC) at AG Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Tauqeer Ahmad, HI(M), ASC[32] &#8212; Managing Director, Pakistan Agricultural Storage and Service Corp. (MD PASSCO), Lahore.
> Maj Gen Agha Masood Akram, HI(M), FF &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Inam Ul Haque, HI(M), FF[33] &#8212; DG Foreign Military Cooperation (DG FMC) at JSHQ, Chaklala.
> Maj Gen Sohail Ahmad Khan, HI(M), Punjab[34] &#8212; Commandant, Command and Staff College (Comdt C&SC), Quetta.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Imran Zafar, HI(M), Engrs[35] &#8212; DG Housing at AG Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Obaid Ullah Khan Khattak, HI(M), Arty[36] &#8212; IG Frontier Corps (IGFC Balochistan), Quetta.
> Maj Gen Naveed Ahmed, HI(M), Arty[19] &#8212; Commander, Logistics Area (Comd Log Area), Karachi.
> Maj Gen Sohail Abbas Zaidi, HI(M), Sigs[35] &#8212; DG (Technical) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Naushad Ahmed Kayani, HI(M), Punjab[37] &#8212; DG Military Intelligence (DG MI) at CGS Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Rizwan Akhtar, HI(M), FF[5] &#8212; DG Rangers (Sindh), Karachi.[38]
> Maj Gen Shahzad Sikander, HI(M), Engrs &#8212; DG Works and Chief Engineer (DG W&CE) at E-in-C Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Mian Mohammad Hilal Hussain, HI(M), Arty[39] &#8212; DG Rangers (Punjab), Lahore.
> Maj Gen Tariq Javed, HI(M), AK &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Ghayur Mahmood, HI(M), TBt, FF[17] &#8212; IG Frontier Corps (IGFC Khyber Pakhtunkhwa), Peshawar.[40]
> Maj Gen Asghar Nawaz, HI(M), Engrs[41] &#8212; DG National Logistics Cell (DG NLC), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Nadir Zeb, HI(M), AC[17] &#8212; DG Human Resources Development (DG HRD) at IGT&E Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Iqbal Asi, HI(M), Sind[42] &#8212; Force Commander, United Nations Operation in Côte d'Ivoire (UNOCI), Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire.
> Maj Gen Nazir Ahmed Butt, HI(M), FF[43] &#8212; GOC 9th Infantry Division, Wana, South Waziristan.[44]
> Maj Gen Jamil Rehmat Vance, HI(M), ASC &#8212; DG Logistics (DG Log) at CLS Branch, GHQ
> Maj Gen Muhammad Ejaz Shahid, HI(M), Arty[45] &#8212; DG Weapons and Equipment (DG W&E) at QMG Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Amir Azeem Bajwa, HI(M), Sigs &#8212; DG C4I at C&IT Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Tariq Ghafoor, HI(M), FF &#8212; DG Joint Intelligence and Information Operations (DG JI&IO) at JSHQ, Chaklala.
> Maj Gen Iftikhar Ahmad Wyne, AC &#8212; Chief of Staff, Central Command (COS CC), Kharian.
> Maj Gen Naveed Mukhtar, AC[19] &#8212; DG (Counter-Terrorism) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Sadiq Ali, AC[17] &#8212; Commandant, Pakistan Military Academy (Comdt PMA), Kakul.
> Maj Gen Maqsood Ahmad Abbasi, Arty &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Farhan Akhtar, Arty[19] &#8212; DG (P), at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Javed Mahmood Bukhari, Engrs[46] &#8212; DG Frontier Works Organisation (DG FWO), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Abid Nazir, Inf[19] &#8212; Commander, Logistics Area (Comd Log Area), Peshawar.
> Maj Gen Hidayat Ur Rehman, AK[17] &#8212; GOC 14th Infantry Division, Okara.[47]
> Maj Gen Muhammad Arif Warraich, Inf[19] &#8212; GOC 16th Infantry Division, Pano Aqil.
> Maj Gen Malik Zafar Iqbal, Inf[25] &#8212; DG Anti-Narcotics Force (DG ANF), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Anwar Ali Hyder, Inf &#8212; DG Staff Duties (DG SD) at COAS Secretariat, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Sajjad Rasul, SBt, Inf &#8212; DG (Security) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Shahid Baig Mirza, Inf[48] &#8212; GOC 10th Infantry Division, Lahore.
> Maj Gen Asim Saleem Bajwa, TBt, Inf[17] &#8212; DG Inter-Services Public Relations (DG ISPR), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Umar Farooq Durrani, AC[17] &#8212; GOC 1st Armoured Division, Multan.
> Maj Gen Ahmad Mahmood Hayat, AC[49] &#8212; GOC 40th Infantry Division, Dera Ismail Khan.[50]
> Maj Gen Muhammad Ali Cheema, Pakistan military School Faisalabad.
> Maj Gen Tariq Masood Malik, Arty &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Khan Tahir Javed Khan, SBt, Arty &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Muhammad Saleem Raza, AD[13] &#8212; GOC 4th Air Defence Division, Malir.
> Maj Gen Mazhar Saleem Khan, Punjab[51] &#8212; GOC 41st Infantry Division, Quetta.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Jaffer, FF[52] &#8212; GOC 8th Infantry Division, Sialkot.
> Maj Gen Syed Najam ul Hassan Shah, Sind[53] &#8212; GOC 12th Infantry Division, Murree.[54]
> Maj Gen Ghulam Qamar, FF[55] &#8212; GOC 19th Infantry Division, Swat.[56]
> Maj Gen Ali Abbas Hyder, SBt, Baloch[57] &#8212; GOC 7th Infantry Division, Miranshah, North Waziristan.[58]
> Maj Gen Aamer Riaz, FF[59] &#8212; GOC 11th Infantry Division, Lahore.
> Maj Gen Abid Rafique, Punjab[60] &#8212; GOC Special Services Group (GOC SSG), Cherat.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Asif Khattak, CMI[17] &#8212; Commander, Logistics Area (Comd Log Area), Gujranwala.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Junaid, TI(M), EME[17] &#8212; DG Defence Science and Technology Organization (DG DESTO), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Umar Farooq Barki, AC[61] &#8212; GOC 6th Armoured Division, Gujranwala.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Shafiq, AC &#8212; GOC 26th Mechanised Division, Bahawalpur.
> Maj Gen Mussarat Nawaz Malik, Arty[62] &#8212; GOC 35th Infantry Division, Bahawalpur.
> Maj Gen Naseer Ali Khan, Arty &#8212; Chief of Staff, Southern Command (COS SC), Quetta.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Irshad, Arty &#8212; Commandant, School of Artillery (Comdt SoA), Nowshera.
> Maj Gen Samrez Salik, Arty[63] &#8212; GOC 33rd Infantry Division, Quetta.
> Maj Gen Akhtar Jamil Rao, Engrs &#8212; GOC 45th Engineers Division, Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Sana Ullah Khan, Inf &#8212; GOC 17th Infantry Division, Swat.
> Maj Gen Hafiz Masroor Ahmed, Inf &#8212; Commander, Force Command Gilgit-Baltistan (Comd FCGB), Gilgit.[64]
> Maj Gen Nasir Dilawar Shah, Avn &#8212; DG (Counterintelligence) at ISI Dte, Islamabad.
> Maj Gen Arshad Mahmood, ASC &#8212; DG Supply and Transport (DG S&T) at CLS Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Tariq Haleem Suri, Ord &#8212; DG Ordnance Services (DG OS) at QMG Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Omar Mahmood Hayat, Ord &#8212; DG Procurement (Army) at DG DP, Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Rehan Abdul Baqi, EME &#8212; DG Military Vehicles, Research and Development Establishment (DG MVRDE), Rawalpindi.
> Maj Gen Khalid Mehmood, EME &#8212; DG Electrical and Mechanical Engineering (DG EME) at C&IT Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Sarfraz Sattar, AC &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Mohammed Naeem Ashraf, AC[19] &#8212; GOC 25th Mechanised Division, Karachi.
> Maj Gen Hamayun Aziz, Arty[19] &#8212; GOC 2nd Artillery Division, Gujranwala
> Maj Gen Qazi Muhammad Ikram Ahmad, Arty &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Syed Shafqat Asghar, Arty &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Muhammad Hamayun Saleem, Arty &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Bilal Akbar, Arty &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Farhat Abbas Sani, AD[19] &#8212; GOC 3rd Air Defence Division, Sargodha.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Ajmal Iqbal, &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Anwar Ul Haq Chaudhry, Engrs[19] &#8212; Commandant, Military College of Engineering (Comdt MCE), Risalpur.
> Maj Gen Muhammad Afzal, &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Faheem Ul Aziz, Inf &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Nadeem Raza, Inf &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Muhammad Tayyab Azam, Inf[19] &#8212; Sector Commander, ISI Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Peshawer.
> Maj Gen Raja Aftab Khan, Inf[19] &#8212; Sector Commander, ISI Punjab, Lahore.
> Maj Gen Sher Afgun, Inf &#8212; GOC 23rd Inf division,jhelum.
> Maj Gen Amer Aslam Khan, TBt, Baloch[19] &#8212; GOC 15th Infantry Division, Sialkot.
> Maj Gen Abid Ejaz Kahloon, Inf &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Anjum Enayat &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Iftikhar Aamir[19] &#8212; Sector Commander, ISI Balochistan, Quetta.
> Maj Gen Mushtaq Ahmad Faisal[19] &#8212; Vice Chief of Logistics Staff (VCLS) at CLS Branch, GHQ.
> Maj Gen Qaiser Anees Khurram &#8212; .
> Maj Gen Mohammad Muazzam Ali, EME[19] &#8212; DG Heavy Industries Taxila (DG HIT), Taxila.


 
is there any such maj.general or Lt.general in Pakistan army who has green eyes ... ??  Trust me on this because i know some relevance to it ...  
it's an honest question so a serious answer is required from among the pdf members ...


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## alibaz

MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n;4475005 said:


> is there any such maj.general or Lt.general in Pakistan army who has green eyes ... ??  Trust me on this because i know some relevance to it ...
> it's an honest question so a serious answer is required from among the pdf members ...



SO you are influenced with some sufi predictions.


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## Zarvan

alibaz said:


> SO you are influenced with some sufi predictions.



Sufi predictions are not wrong in many cases they are right but we should not base our policies on that we should base our policies on Quran and Sunnah and what is going on these days and what is better for Muslim Ummah and as for next Army chief it should be the senior most Nawaz should not make same mistake again of making some junior the Army chief


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## Tk_90

What is this sufi prediction?


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## TaimiKhan

Haseebullah said:


> A per the new policy the Major serves longer than a Lt Col and full Col. Correct me if I am wrong. I think they introduced this a few months back.



Yeah i believe some changes have been done prolonging the tenure of junior ranks, mostly at Capt & Major ranks. 

I am not into details of how much, if found out will try to share.


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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

alibaz said:


> SO you are influenced with some sufi predictions.



not influenced but rather amazed and curious about the possible future-forecast for PakisTan ... 
who may come as PakisTan 's C.o.a.s.  only time vill tell the tale ... 

ALLaah knows all & best


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## alibaz

Tk_90 said:


> What is this sufi prediction?



Future of Pakistan (Insha Allah): Pakistan Will Be Ruled By A Densely Bearded Man With Green Eyes

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## fatman17

General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, NI(M), HI, Baloch  Chief of Army Staff (COAS), GHQ. (Colonel-in-Chief of the Baloch Regiment). Due to retire on 28 November 2013'.[1]
General Khalid Shameem Wynne, NI(M), Punjab  Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC), JSHQ, Chaklala. (Colonel-in-Chief of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 6 October 2013.
Lt Gen Khalid Nawaz Khan, HI(M), Baloch[2]  Commander, X Corps, Rawalpindi. (Colonel Commandant of the Baloch Regiment). Due to retire on 4 October 2013.
Lt Gen Muhammad Alam Khattak, HI(M), TBt, FF  Commander, XII Corps, Quetta. (Colonel Commandant of the Frontier Force Regiment). Due to retire on 4 October 2013.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/260433-next-coas-6.html#ixzz2Xto3pmw4

these guys are out....



1. Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam, HI(M), SBt, AK[3]  Chief of Logistics Staff (CLS), GHQ. (Colonel Commandant of the Azad Kashmir Regiment). Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
2. Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood, HI(M), Baloch[3]  Chief of General Staff (CGS), GHQ. Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
3. Lt Gen Raheel Sharif, HI(M), FF[4]  Inspector General Training and Evaluation (IGT&E), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
4. Lt Gen Tariq Khan, HI(M), AC  Commander, I Corps, Mangla. (Colonel Commandant of the Armoured Corps). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
5. Lt Gen Muhammad Zaheerul Islam, HI(M), Punjab[5]  DG Inter-Services Intelligence (DG ISI), ISI Dte, Islamabad. (Colonel Commandant of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/260433-next-coas-6.html#ixzz2XtoO5rMp


and these are the top 5 contenders for the throne of CoAS....

if i were a betting man its between 2,4,5....


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## alibaz

fatman17 said:


> General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, NI(M), HI, Baloch &#8212; Chief of Army Staff (COAS), GHQ. (Colonel-in-Chief of the Baloch Regiment). Due to retire on 28 November 2013'.[1]
> General Khalid Shameem Wynne, NI(M), Punjab &#8212; Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC), JSHQ, Chaklala. (Colonel-in-Chief of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 6 October 2013.
> Lt Gen Khalid Nawaz Khan, HI(M), Baloch[2] &#8212; Commander, X Corps, Rawalpindi. (Colonel Commandant of the Baloch Regiment). Due to retire on 4 October 2013.
> Lt Gen Muhammad Alam Khattak, HI(M), TBt, FF &#8212; Commander, XII Corps, Quetta. (Colonel Commandant of the Frontier Force Regiment). Due to retire on 4 October 2013.
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/260433-next-coas-6.html#ixzz2Xto3pmw4
> 
> these guys are out....
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam, HI(M), SBt, AK[3] &#8212; Chief of Logistics Staff (CLS), GHQ. (Colonel Commandant of the Azad Kashmir Regiment). Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
> 2. Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood, HI(M), Baloch[3] &#8212; Chief of General Staff (CGS), GHQ. Due to retire on 9 April 2014.
> 3. Lt Gen Raheel Sharif, HI(M), FF[4] &#8212; Inspector General Training and Evaluation (IGT&E), GHQ. Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> 4. Lt Gen Tariq Khan, HI(M), AC &#8212; Commander, I Corps, Mangla. (Colonel Commandant of the Armoured Corps). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> 5. Lt Gen Muhammad Zaheerul Islam, HI(M), Punjab[5] &#8212; DG Inter-Services Intelligence (DG ISI), ISI Dte, Islamabad. (Colonel Commandant of the Punjab Regiment). Due to retire on 1 October 2014.
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/260433-next-coas-6.html#ixzz2XtoO5rMp
> 
> 
> and these are the top 5 contenders for the throne of CoAS....
> 
> if i were a betting man its between 2,4,5....



General Wyne will retire before COAS and someone has to fill that slot as well, the equation becomes interesting


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## Armstrong

@fatman17 @TaimiKhan @F.O.X @Xeric - Shouldn't, ideally, a COAS have at least 4-5 years at the COAS slot so that his philosophy & methodology gets to fully permeate the Army & that he still has enough time to show 'results' & tweak & tune his 'game plan' as per how it responded when it got translated from the 'drawing board' to actual tangible results on the ground ? 

1-2 years seems woefully in-adequate; eik Football Team Manager ko bhii 1-2 seasons lagteiii hain apneii aaap ko properly establish karneiii mein & to get the team working the way he wants to before the 'results' start showing !


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## fatman17

Armstrong said:


> @fatman17 @TaimiKhan @F.O.X @Xeric - Shouldn't, ideally, a COAS have at least 4-5 years at the COAS slot so that his philosophy & methodology gets to fully permeate the Army & that he still has enough time to show 'results' & tweak & tune his 'game plan' as per how it responded when it got translated from the 'drawing board' to actual tangible results on the ground ?
> 
> 1-2 years seems woefully in-adequate; eik Football Team Manager ko bhii 1-2 seasons lagteiii hain apneii aaap ko properly establish karneiii mein & to get the team working the way he wants to before the 'results' start showing !



the tenure used to be 4 years when the seat was referred to as C-in-C. then the PPP leaders decided to reduce it to 3 years in line with the US system.



alibaz said:


> General Wyne will retire before COAS and someone has to fill that slot as well, the equation becomes interesting



the post may go to PAF or NAVY this time around as per the rule of rotation.

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## Haseebullah

fatman17 said:


> the tenure used to be 4 years when the seat was referred to as C-in-C. then the PPP leaders decided to reduce it to 3 years in line with the US system.
> 
> 
> 
> the post may go to PAF or NAVY this time around as per the *rule of rotation*.



I thought Army didnt give a **** about that rule?


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## Fieldmarshal

alibaz said:


> Future of Pakistan (Insha Allah): Pakistan Will Be Ruled By A Densely Bearded Man With Green Eyes




both Khalid nawaz n Zaheer ul islam have green eyes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i believe khalid Nawaz will be given a couple of months extension, which will put him at no.1 in the seniority and thus paving the way for him to be our next chief.


ps. no disrespect to gen. tariq khan but unfortunetly he is a know drunk and we surely cant afford for a drunk to be the chief as we simple cant afford for a boozer to be the chief. as we have had two very bad experiences in the shape of yaha n mush, which have cost this nation an arm n a leg.

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## Last Hope

I don't believe in the Sufi prediction, but I favor Lt. Gen. Khalid Nawaz, Commander X-Corps.


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## Amaa'n

isnt he due to retire in Oct 2013?


Last Hope said:


> I don't believe in the Sufi prediction, but I favor Lt. Gen. Khalid Nawaz, Commander X-Corps.


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## Last Hope

balixd said:


> isnt he due to retire in Oct 2013?



Promotion gives you extended service period.


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## Farah Sohail

Last Hope said:


> I don't believe in the Sufi prediction, but I favor Lt. Gen. Khalid Nawaz, Commander X-Corps.



Plz also elaborate why do u favour him? What are his credentials? Would like to know....no one else mentioned his name here...


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## Last Hope

Farah Sohail said:


> Plz also elaborate why do u favour him? What are his credentials? Would like to know....no one else mentioned his name here...



He is the commander of X Corps, who have been active on the Western front. Pakistan today is engaged on Western border and the new doctrine has shifted the focus on 'Internal issues' which in other words in terrorism. We need someone with a lot of experience in this matter, and Khalid Nawaz has commanded the war. 

Being a Brigade commander (111-Brigade) and a Corp Commander (X-Corp) means you posses something that determines your position.

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## BATMAN

Musharraf choose Kiyani.. who was chief of ISI. Why not this time?

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## Gryphon

*2 July 2013*







*ISLAMABAD: *In the first hundred days of his third stint as the Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif has to take an important decision of making three new four star appointments, including those of the Army Chief, Naval Chief and Chairman Joints Chief of staff Committee.

Holding the additional portfolio of defence minister, PM Nawaz Sharif will also be considering approving a major reshuffle in army top brass in the first week of October as CJCSC, General Khalid Shamim Wyne, and two Corp Commanders, Lt General Khalid Nawaz Khan and Lt General Muhammad Alam Khattak prepare to call farewell to arms.

This will set in a major reshuffle in the top military brass and lead to promotions for the posts of CJCSC and atleast five Corps Commanders before the retirement of General Kayani.

In a couple of detailed background meetings with journalists, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani has ruled out taking any more extensions when his six year tenure as Army Chief comes to an end in November this year.

General Kayani is the only COAS who was given an extension of three years by a civilian government five months prior to his retirement in July 2010.

Aides close to PM Sharif believe the decision will be taken on &#8220;merit&#8221; and &#8220;seniority,&#8221; giving enough leeway to the government to pick the next COAS from amongst the top generals by considering the two criterions to judge the professional competence of the officer.

Sources in the PM Office say the matter of appointment of service chiefs is highly sensitive and all cards are being kept close to the chest by the PM.

However, discussions have taken place on the issue in close door quarters of the Sharif camp.

Considering the way key appointments have been made in the civilian bureaucracy, it is doubtful if the PM has learnt any lessons of preferring loyalty over merit, with loyalty still being the top most priority for the Sharif brothers.

Loyalty was among one of the factors PM Sharif considered when his brother Shahbaz Sharif and trusted lieutenant Chaudhry Nisar advised him to overlook the seniority principle and appoint General Musharraf as the COAS in October 1998. The Sharif family had to pay heavily for the decision just a year later when his hand-picked general staged a coup d&#8217;état in October 1999 and put the then Prime Minister in the 16th century Attock Fort.

If the PM adheres merely to the seniority principle in appointing the next Army Chief, there is very little left to guess as to who will be the next Army chief.

If the seniority principle is applied sensu strictu, Lt General Haroon Aslam would be the senior most in October, followed by Lt General Rashid Mehmood. Technically, any of the Lieutenant Generals could be appointed as the COAS but practically that is not possible. The decision to appoint the COAS gets complex when seniority, career progression, professional competence, command abilities, general reputation and loyalty factors are considered in picking the next COAS.

Moreover, it might be under consideration if officers who have only five or six months left for retirement should be given three more years as COAS or officers who still have atleast a year of service left should be appointed so that a new battle hardened cadre of officers run the affairs of the Army.

To better understand this decision making, following are the brief profiles of atleast the top five senior most Lieutenant Generals, with the hope that the PM does not throw another surprise by going beyond the list of top five senior most three star generals in picking his next chief. If he follows such a course, it would set in a number of early retirements even for officers who have a few years of service left as they may not prefer to serve under someone junior to them.

*1- Lt General Haroon Aslam: *Lt General Haroon Aslam is a commando of the Special Services Group (SSG) of the Army who joined the Azad Kashmir Regiment in 1975 and the SSG in 1981.

Lt Gen Aslam enjoys a good professional reputation in the army. As GOC SSG in 2009, Lt Gen Aslam was amongst the first group of soldiers to land at the highest battle ground of Swat amidst heavy gunfire from militants. Leading from the front, Gen Aslam and his commandoes managed to regain control of Taliban strong hold of Peochar in Swat after battles which could serve as lesson in world&#8217;s military history in high altitude mountain warfare.

Promoted as a Lt General in April 2010, he commanded the Bahawalpur Corps and was posted as Chief of Logistic Staff (CLS) in January this year.

His appointment CLS raised a few eyebrows in the drawing rooms where the most favourite past time of a few officers is to speculate about promotions and postings. CLS is generally considered to be an unimportant position to be elevated as the COAS, especially for someone who has been enjoying the limelight in all the important positions throughout his career, especially after October 1999.

In October 1999, the then Brigadier Haroon Aslam was serving as Director Military Operations and was part of the earlier meetings and plans to secure the PM House and the President&#8217;s House.

Like other officers who were instrumental in implementing the counter-coup, General Musharraf promoted Brigadier Haroon Aslam to the rank of a Major General in January 2005. Major General Aslam served as GOC Quetta and in April 2007 was given the important task of DG Rangers Punjab by Musharraf. As DG Rangers Punjab, Lt Gen Aslam was instrumental in reaching a number of agreements with his Indian counterparts for release of prisoners and issues related to human and drug smuggling and coordinated patrolling of the international border.

If the decision to make CJSC or COAS is made purely on seniority principle, Lt General Haroon Aslam would top the list after retirement of Lt General Khalid Nawaz Khan and Lt General Muhammad Alam Khattak in first week of October.

However, the final decision will be made by PM Nawaz Sharif who is likely to hold the portfolio of the Defence Minister atleast till high level appointments are made in the defence forces.

Lt General Haroon Aslam is due to retire on 9th April 2014, approximately six months after October when the incumbent CJSC is due to retire.






*2- Lieutenant General Rashid Mehmood:* As far as promotions are concerned, Lt General Rashid Mehmood has been sharing the glory with Lt General Haroon Aslam on two important occasions, on the same day.

The then Brigadier Rashid Mehmood was serving in the United Nations when General Musharraf decided to promote him as a two star General in January 2005. Lt General Rashid and Lt General Haroon Aslam also shared the glory once again when General Kayani promoted both as three star generals in April 2010. However, similarity between the two top generals, who are being tipped to be the senior most in October for appointment as CJCSC and COAS, ends there.

Lt General Rashid is said to enjoy good reputation with the Sharif family, courtesy the former President Rafiq Tarrar and his stint as Corps Commander Lahore when he interacted with the Sharif brothers in official capacity. Lt General Rashid, who also served as Military Secretary to ousted President Tarrar, was given the strategically important post of Chief of General Staff (CGS) earlier in January.

Belonging to General Kayani&#8217;s Baloch Regiment, promotion of Lt General Rashid as CGS is being considered as Army Chief&#8217;s choice by the incumbent COAS as many an army chief was promoted from the same post including General Yahya Khan, General Mirza Aslam Beg, General Asif Nawaz and General Jahangir Karamat, to name just a few.

One of the reason given for Lt General Rashid being a hot favourite for the post of COAS is his stint prior to being the CGS as Corps Commander Lahore. The tenure as Corps Commander Lahore helped to create a good impression in the mind of Sharif brothers as junior Sharif frequently interacted with Lt General Rashid in his capacity as Chief Minister.

Prior to this, in the crucial and active phase of the war against terror, the then Major General Rashid Mehmood served as Deputy DG ISI to coordinate intelligence operations while some of his contemporaries were active on the war front and leading the troops from the front.

However, it is said that giving the important portfolio of CGS to Lt General Rashid, General Kayani has stacked the deck of cards favourably for an officer of his own regiment by giving him the prized position of looking after both military operations and military intelligence. In view of this, it is not difficult to guess the institutional recommendation might favour Lt General Rashid.

But it remains to be seen if PM Nawaz Sharif would decide to go by General Kayani&#8217;s choice and appoint Lt General Rashid as the COAS or pick his own chief for some other considerations of merit and professional competence other than the seniority principle alone.

Moreover, the PM will also have to consider the political fallout of appointing someone who served as Corps Commander Lahore when the same criticism is being faced in political and bureaucratic appointments.

Also, it is rare that two successive Chiefs are appointed from the same regiment. Till the PM takes the final decision, all the analysts are putting their bets on Lt General Rashid as the next successor to General Kayani or atleast to be the CJCSC. Lt General Rashid would still have five months of service after retirement of General Kayani on November 28, 2013.






*3- Lt General Raheel Sharif:* Third in the seniority list post October retirements, Lt General Raheel Sharif is younger brother of Nishan-i-Haider Major Shabbir Sharif Shaheed.

Promoted as a Lt General in October 2010, he was first entrusted to command the Gujranwala Corps and later appointed as Inspector General Weapons, Training and Evaluation. As a two star general, he commanded the 11th division in Lahore and was later posted as Commandant Pakistan Military Academy Kakul.

It was a surprise for some when Major General Raheel Sharif was promoted as a three star general as it was thought he had already reached the peak of his career.

However, some sources say, Lt General Raheel Sharif is known to Lt General (retired) Abdul Qadir Baloch, a close confidante of PM Nawaz Sharif.

If the PM consults his cabinet for the suggestions, Lt General (retd) Abdul Qadir Baloch is said to be favourable to an officer who served under him and is known as a simple career officer.

However, this relationship would not be given much weight when the PM takes the final decision based on considerations of merit, professional competence and dynamism to tackle the challenges of militancy and withdrawal of international forces from Afghanistan. He is expected to retire in October 2014.

*4- Lt General Tariq Khan:* Winner of Sword of Honour in 55 PMA, Lt General Tariq Khan was promoted as a three star general in October 2010. An officer of Armoured Corps, he was serving as Inspector General FC Khyber Pakhtunkhwa before taking over as Mangla Corps Commander. Since his days as a Brigadier, Lt General Tariq Khan has an illustrious track record as a &#8220;fighting commander.&#8221;

Belonging to Tank in South Waziristan tribal Agency, Lt General Tariq Khan is credited with making significant gains in the war against militants in the restive tribal areas and making FC a fighting force to reckon with. He has tried to remodel the FC into quick reaction force commando units.

Officers and men hold him in high esteem for being with them on the battle fronts and his ability to quickly take decisions.

Anyone visiting the tribal areas and talking to army soldiers hears tales of valour of Lt General Tariq Khan, especially in routing out the militants from Bajaur, South Waziristan, Dir, Mohmand, Swat and Buner.

From 2008 onwards, when 14th Division was moved under his command from Okara to fight militants in Waziristan, the military made significant gains to reclaim the territory lost to militants.

Commanding the FC in the difficult operations to clear militants from Bajaur, Lt General Tariq Khan was found leading the operation from the front lines, standing with young Captains and Majors to clear Loi Sam and other areas in the militant strong hold on Pak-Afghan border.

In South Waziristan, he broke the myth of invincibility of militants and re-established the lost credibility of Army and FC as a fighting force in the area.

Prior to that, Lt General Tariq Khan commanded the First Armoured Division in Multan in 2006-2007 where he was posted following a successful stint as Pakistan&#8217;s representative in US Central command in 2004-2005.

Lt General Tariq is the only Pakistani Army officer in addition to General Kayani who was awarded the US Legion of Merit for his outstanding performance in joint Pak-US Operation Enduring Freedom. Prior to that, two Pakistani naval chiefs, Admiral Shahid Karimullah and Admiral Afzal Tahir had also received the prestigious award.

When it comes to pure merit, operational command, battle experience and professional work for uplifting the units, Lt General Tariq may be considered as a powerful choice by PM Nawaz Sharif.

If the PM decides to opt for Lt General Tariq, he would be able to ward of allegations and criticism of giving all important political and bureaucratic posts only to those who have some linkage with Lahore. Moreover, as the US and international forces withdraw from Afghanistan in 2014, it would be beneficial to have a COAS who has hands on operational field experience of formulating policies to effectively deal with the menace of militancy and the larger issues involved in Afghanistan&#8217;s transition.






*5- Lt General Zaheer-ul-Islam:* Belonging to a politically well-established Janjua clan of Punjab, Lt General Zaheer-ul-Islam is currently the eyes and ears of the Army chief and the PM in his role as DG ISI. He has already served as Corps Commander Karachi before taking up the current assignment. Before being as Corps Commander Karachi,Lt General Zaheer-ul-Islam had served twice in ISI and also as Chief of Staff in Army&#8217;s Strategic Forces Command. Belonging to Punjab Regiment, Lt General Zaheer-ul-Islam would be fifth in the seniority list after the first week of October. It is doubtful if PM Nawaz Sharif would again appoint another ISI Chief as the Army Chief. However, the reports of his organisation may play an important role in helping the PM reach the important decision of appointing the new Army Chief.

The Race for the new Army Chief gets hot | AAJ News

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## truthseeker2010

LTG Rashid Mehmud will be my bet as the next COAS any day........


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## Slav Defence

can we turn this into a poll to see what members like?


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## Armstrong

I hope Lt General Tariq Khan becomes the COAS !

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## razgriz19

Lt-General Zaheer-ul-islam would be my choice. 
I'm sure all of them are very competent and will get the job done, but General Zaheer looks like a real leader.
I'm sure his presence in a room overpowers everyone, including Kayani.

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## Imran Khan

Lt General Haroon Aslam my choice one of the great solder of land man . he was 1st man come down from helicopter in peochar velly to fight terrorists . we need such brave man in power

and look then he was eating with solders and living like them

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## Cheetah786

Slav Defence said:


> can we turn this into a poll to see what members like?



My vote is for LTG Hyperion or LTG Armstrong

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## Slav Defence

Armstrong said:


> I hope Lt General Tariq Khan becomes the COAS !



and why will you support him??

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## M.harris

I vote for general Tariq khan.

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## Slav Defence

Imran Khan said:


> Lt General Haroon Aslam my choice one of the great solder of land man . he was 1st man come down from helicopter in peochar velly to fight terrorists . we need such brave man in power
> 
> and look then he was eating with solders and living like them



hmmm......he really seems to deserve...as he himself has taken part in such missions..



M.harris said:


> I vote for general Tariq khan.



why do you vote him?please share..


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## Sedqal

Nawaz should not interfere, let army send the name of the person most suitable for the job.

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## M.harris

Slav Defence said:


> hmmm......he really seems to deserve...as he himself has taken part in such missions..
> 
> 
> 
> why do you vote him?please share..



He care for his men who are under his command and a good leader is the one who care for his all men. you can take many examples from history good generals are the one who knows how to keep the morale of the fighting force high and Tariq khan can do this job well because we are facing insurgency also.

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## Armstrong

Slav Defence said:


> and why will you support him??



I've heard some rave reviews about the work he did with FC !

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## Slav Defence

M.harris said:


> He care for his men who are under his command and a good leader is the one who care for his all men. you can take many examples from history good generals are the one who knows how to keep the morale of the fighting force high and Tariq khan can do this job well because we are facing insurgency also.



I see,we have pretty good options.



Armstrong said:


> I've heard some rave reviews about the work he did with FC !



hmm....so you think that he deserves to lead army in current scenario??has better dexterity then others..good..

I am personally satisfied with Haroon Aslam.

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## Amaa'n

Slav Defence said:


> why do you vote him?please share..



he is corps commander mangla. he fought in Fata in 2009.
he turned FC from a rag tag force to a fully professional force.

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## Slav Defence

balixd said:


> he is corps commander mangla. he fought in Fata in 2009.
> he turned FC from a rag tag force to a fully professional force.



well said...so here we can see..his skills to shape and enhance performance of FC sector...we have pretty good options..Alhamdulliah..ek se berh ker ek...


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## Armstrong

Slav Defence said:


> hmm....so you think that he deserves to lead army in current scenario??has better dexterity then others..good..
> 
> I am personally satisfied with Haroon Aslam.



I think that if he can take a demoralized & comparatively unimpressive paramilitary outfit like the FC into the fighting force that it is right now, then I do believe that he possesses the hallmark to lead the PA !

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## Slav Defence

Cheetah786 said:


> My vote is for LTG Hyperion or LTG Armstrong



bhai cheetay....yeh log unfortunately hain nahi options mai or else my vote goes to brig @balixd


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## Sedqal

In anyway my personal opinion:

*1- Haroon Aslam*: Musharraf was from SSG and his actions speaks volumes about the lack of discipline which is likely to exist there. He was also promoted by Musharraf which is another drawback. He is also about to retire, if selected an extension is likely.* -3*

*2 - Rashid Mehmood:* Has good links with Shariffs (most likely to declare another Martial Law), soon to retire if selected extension is very likely, promoted by Musharraf *-3 *

*3 - Raheel Sharif:* Brother of Shabbir Sharif (won't likely spoil his name by declaring a martial law), Career Officer *+2* (I would recommend him)

*4 - Tariq Khan:* Likely to follow his own design in fighting Taliban, a likely case of becoming next slef-declared Messiah/ Mehdi. *-1 *

*5 - Zaheer-ul-Islam:* Well established Janjua clan (freak is paying for this news or what), extensions if selected, ISI has failed miserably in recent years to protect Pakistan's interest and the demon of strategic depth is still going strong. *-3*

Its between Raheel Sharif and Tariq Khan.

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## Slav Defence

Armstrong said:


> I think that if he can take a demoralized & comparatively unimpressive paramilitary outfit like the FC into the fighting force that it is right now, then I do believe that he possesses the hallmark to lead the PA !



well said....the way he transformed FC clearly describes his leadership skills to lead and reshape Army.

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## Amaa'n

Sedqal said:


> In anyway my personal opinion:
> 
> *1- Haroon Aslam*: Musharraf was from SSG and his actions speaks volumes about the lack of discipline which is likely to exist there. He was also promoted by Musharraf which is another drawback. He is also about to retire, if selected an extension is likely.* -3*
> 
> *2 - Rashid Mehmood:* Has good links with Shariffs (most likely to declare another Martial Law), soon to retire if selected extension is very likely, promoted by Musharraf *-3 *
> 
> *3 - Raheel Sharif:* Brother of Shabbir Sharif (won't likely spoil his name by declaring a martial law), Career Officer *+2* (I would recommend him)
> 
> *4 - Tariq Khan:* Likely to follow his own design in fighting Taliban, a likely case of becoming next slef-declared Messiah/ Mehdi. *-1 *
> 
> *5 - Zaheer-ul-Islam:* Well established Janjua clan (freak is paying for this news or what), extensions if selected, ISI has failed miserably in recent years to protect Pakistan's interest and the demon of strategic depth is still going strong. *-3*
> 
> Its between Raheel Sharif and Tariq Khan.



yeah lets select a career officer with no first hand experience of battlefield- your opinions are flawed. current COAS was promoted by Mushraf, and he worked under him,and look what he is doing today..... he was dg isi prior to this so yor opinion about harron aslam and zaheer ul islam is wrong

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## Slav Defence

Sedqal said:


> In anyway my personal opinion:
> 
> *1- Haroon Aslam*: Musharraf was from SSG and his actions speaks volumes about the lack of discipline which is likely to exist there. He was also promoted by Musharraf which is another drawback. He is also about to retire, if selected an extension is likely.* -3*
> 
> *2 - Rashid Mehmood:* Has good links with Shariffs (most likely to declare another Martial Law), soon to retire if selected extension is very likely, promoted by Musharraf *-3 *
> 
> *3 - Raheel Sharif:* Brother of Shabbir Sharif (won't likely spoil his name by declaring a martial law), Career Officer *+2* (I would recommend him)
> 
> *4 - Tariq Khan:* Likely to follow his own design in fighting Taliban, a likely case of becoming next slef-declared Messiah/ Mehdi. *-1 *
> 
> *5 - Zaheer-ul-Islam:* Well established Janjua clan (freak is paying for this news or what), extensions if selected, ISI has failed miserably in recent years to protect Pakistan's interest and the demon of strategic depth is still going strong. *-3*
> 
> Its between Raheel Sharif and Tariq Khan.



No..it is b/w tariq khan and haroon aslam....not because one is selected and promoted by Musharraf,but because he has better skills to lead army.
and that is why we need tariq Khan..you have answered for yourself..as he has his own designs of overt and covert operations against talibans..he is man with mind.

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## Sedqal

balixd said:


> yeah lets select a career officer with no first hand experience of battlefield- your opinions are flawed. current COAS was promoted by Mushraf, and he worked under him,and look what he is doing today..... he was dg isi prior to this so yor opinion about harron aslam and zaheer ul islam is wrong



The worst thing which can happen in Pakistan is martial law. We have all seen the grand strategic insight in shape of TTP and the operational efficiency of Pakistan Army by the number of TTP attacks DAILY. Not to mention the great history of 4 martial laws which cover some 50% of Pakistan's existence, losing half of Pakistan in '71, allowing USA to conduct drone attacks while knowing fully well the scale of collateral damage (last year 1500 civilians died for the grand score of 38 terrorists) AND lying to Pakistani public about allowing the drone strikes for 10 years. Though to his credit Ex SSG Commando did agree to the agreement on a CNN interview (even in his fall from grace, he didn't allow a brown bloody Pakistani civilian to break the news).

With this track record, it would be more then suffice to find a non-martial law type officer. As for winning any war we don't expect a miracle like that anymore

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## Farah Sohail

balixd said:


> yeah lets select a career officer with no first hand experience of battlefield- your opinions are flawed. current COAS was promoted by Mushraf, and he worked under him,*and look what he is doing today*..... he was dg isi prior to this so yor opinion about harron aslam and zaheer ul islam is wrong



Are u praising Gen Kiyani or saying the opposite? Sorry couldnt understand you completely here


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## Amaa'n

Sedqal said:


> The worst thing which can happen in Pakistan is martial law. We have all seen the grand strategic insight in shape of TTP and the operational efficiency of Pakistan Army by the number of TTP attacks DAILY. Not to mention the great history of 4 martial laws which cover some 50% of Pakistan's existence, losing half of Pakistan in '71, allowing USA to conduct drone attacks while knowing fully well the scale of collateral damage (last year 1500 civilians died for the grand score of 38 terrorists) AND lying to Pakistani public about allowing the drone strikes for 10 years. Though to his credit Ex SSG Commando did agree to the agreement on a CNN interview (even in his fall from grace, he didn't allow a brown bloody Pakistani civilian to break the news).
> 
> With this track record, it would be more then suffice to find a non-martial law type officer. As for winning any war we don't expect a miracle like that anymore


i can answer to each and every question of yours but we will end up derailing the thread....but i will say this again your views are flawed....you learn from past and not repeat mistakes. but that does not mean you overlook one's ability to lead and charge from front......it depend on your leader / ns how he is going to handle things



Farah Sohail said:


> Are u praising Gen Kiyani or saying the opposite? Sorry couldnt understand you completely here



praising.....supporting democratic process. keeping every institution in its place. that was the need of the hour and that is what our dear fellow sedqal wanted to hear.
though COAS has his on share of criticism but that is related to his policy making and decisions as an Army Chief


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## Farah Sohail

balixd said:


> praising.....supporting democratic process. keeping every institution in its place. that was the need of the hour and that is what our dear fellow sedqal wanted to hear.
> though *COAS has his on share of criticism but that is related to his policy making and decisions as an Army Chief*



But wasnt this...his main job? Wht good is his support for democracy if his policy making and decisions as an army chief are flawed?


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## Pakistanisage

Lt. General Tariq Khan gets my vote. I like this soldier.

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## livingdead

the seniormost gets my vote..

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## Sedqal

Farah Sohail said:


> But wasnt this...his main job? Wht good is his support for democracy if his policy making and decisions as an army chief are flawed?



Well policy making and decision making in PA has always been flawed. At-least country is saved more misery in shape of a Martial Law.


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## Haseebullah

hinduguy said:


> the seniormost gets my vote..


your vote doesnt count.


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## livingdead

Haseebullah said:


> your vote doesnt count.



you are hurting my feelings .. you could have pretended.. 
btw have you seen the flag rule?

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## Amaa'n

Farah Sohail said:


> But wasnt this...his main job? Wht good is his support for democracy if his policy making and decisions as an army chief are flawed?



well in Pakistan we consider it more important than actually being a Leader for the Military, one example is you can see the pov of our fellow member sedqal. who is suggesting to promote a career officer just to supprt the cause for democracy, and it does not matter if the person has leadership ability or not, the willingness to make decisions.

I am not diminishing COAS here, he did a good job and we saq some changes during his tenture in the army, it is just that he failed to tackle few key issues like Terrorism, Balochistan unrest, drones, 2nd may raid etc.

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## Cheetah786

Slav Defence said:


> bhai cheetay....yeh log unfortunately hain nahi options mai or else my vote goes to brig @balixd



we are having fun brother you and i have no chance in deciding who gets in so why not have the best of it.

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## genmirajborgza786

Armstrong said:


> I hope *Lt General Tariq Khan *becomes the COAS !



dude isn't one gen. abdel fattah sisi is enough ? why do you want another one ?

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## Jango

Sedqal said:


> In anyway my personal opinion:
> 
> *1- Haroon Aslam*: Musharraf was from SSG and his actions speaks volumes about the lack of discipline which is likely to exist there. He was also promoted by Musharraf which is another drawback. He is also about to retire, if selected an extension is likely.* -3*
> 
> *2 - Rashid Mehmood:* Has good links with Shariffs (most likely to declare another Martial Law), soon to retire if selected extension is very likely, promoted by Musharraf *-3 *
> 
> *3 - Raheel Sharif:* Brother of Shabbir Sharif (won't likely spoil his name by declaring a martial law), Career Officer *+2* (I would recommend him)
> 
> *4 - Tariq Khan:* Likely to follow his own design in fighting Taliban, a likely case of becoming next slef-declared Messiah/ Mehdi. *-1 *
> 
> *5 - Zaheer-ul-Islam:* Well established Janjua clan (freak is paying for this news or what), extensions if selected, ISI has failed miserably in recent years to protect Pakistan's interest and the demon of strategic depth is still going strong. *-3*
> 
> Its between Raheel Sharif and Tariq Khan.



You want to get a IGT&E into the top spot? Are you okay right now?

It's a three horse race IMO, CLS, CGS and Corp Commander I Corps. Although a CLS position is one which doesn't have high chances of being promoted to 4 star, this was discussed sometime back when Lt Gen Haroon Aslam was made CLS. But on seniority and battle experience, he gets the advantage along with Tariq Khan.

I stand by what I said 4 months ago, Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood will be the next COAS. Let's see


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## fatman17

it is going around that kiyani is bucking for the post of CJSC....!


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## Amaa'n

fatman17 said:


> it is going around that kiyani is bucking for the post of CJSC....!



but wasn't it the turn for AF to have their guy in spot?



nuclearpak said:


> You want to get a IGT&E into the top spot? Are you okay right now?


sir g he is just an amatuer kid who listens to the likes of Hamid Mir and co, no point talking to him




> I stand by what I said 4 months ago, Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood will be the next COAS. Let's see


looking at his profile he seems like a Professional guy, but he might ruin his image outside and WITHIN the army, as most will think of him as a political appointment.


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## Sedqal

nuclearpak said:


> You want to get a IGT&E into the top spot? Are you okay right now?
> 
> It's a three horse race IMO, CLS, CGS and Corp Commander I Corps. Although a CLS position is one which doesn't have high chances of being promoted to 4 star, this was discussed sometime back when Lt Gen Haroon Aslam was made CLS. But on seniority and battle experience, he gets the advantage along with Tariq Khan.
> 
> I stand by what I said 4 months ago, Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood will be the next COAS. Let's see



Rashid Mehmood is the most likely candidate. Doesn't mean the best one as a Pakistani my ONLY interest is someone who won't go for a martial law I can't care less for the rest of details.

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## Areesh

Even SHO of my local police station would be better than the present COAS. I am sure all the choices presented in this thread would be better than Kiyani.


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## muse

Now that the Abbotabad commission report has been made public, readers, critical readers, are invited to remember that it was first on this forum that "Dereliction of Duty" was introduced to critical readers, and we also suggested "Right man for the Job" and that would mean we first attempt to give some thought to what that mission OUGHT and might be --- The report outlines a number of proposals to construct more rational and more effective national security constructs and the input of Armed Forces and the future of her agencies deserves attention.


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## fatman17

*New COAS: critical decision coming up for PM*


Baqir Sajjad Syed


Published 2013-07-21 09:12:02 


ISLAMABAD: Before Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif&#8217;s proverbial honeymoon period is over he will be faced with critical decisions like succession in the army command and rotating the ceremonial chair of Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee among other services. 
When these decisions are to be made, Prime Minister Sharif, who is in office for a record third non-consecutive tenure, will find himself at the same crossroads he has been at twice (in 1993 and 1998) &#8211; in fact thrice if his botched attempt to appoint Gen Ziauddin Butt as army chief in 1999 is also counted. 

On both previous occasions he chose men (Gen Waheed Kakar and Gen Pervez Musharraf) who sent him packing months later. Nevertheless, the choices were relatively easier in 1993 and 1998. 

He now has to look for a man who can deal with the multi-dimensional threats to national security, turn around the country&#8217;s fortunes in the fight against terror and, more significantly, work with the civilian leadership in redressing the civil-military imbalance believed to be at the root of many of the ills the country faces today. 

Last but not the least, the new army chief also has to be in sync with Mr Sharif&#8217;s vision of normalisation of ties with India. 

If his previous words are taken into account, the prime minister does not have a tough choice to make: &#8220;I&#8217;ll go by the book. I&#8217;ll go by the merit. Whosoever is the most senior would occupy the job. The next one, the next in line.&#8221; 

This would give Mr Sharif a panel of three generals who would then be in service: Lt Gen Haroon Aslam, Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood and Lt Gen Raheel Sharif. 

According to the rules, names from this panel would be sent to him by the defence ministry, which at the moment is headed by Mr Sharif himself. 

Mr Sharif, who according to insiders will be cautious this time around in picking the next man, has already started screening the candidates. In this task he is being helped by the old duo &#8211; &#8216;heir apparent&#8217; Shahbaz Sharif and Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar &#8212; that made the choice for Gen Musharraf in 1998. 

The two have been meeting the people concerned and one such meeting that was noted by many was their visit to Rawalpindi Corps Commander Lt Gen Khalid Nawaz. 

No one is privy to the discussions in the Chaklala Garrison. Is there a move afoot to grant Gen Nawaz an extension before he retires in October and subsequently make him the army chief or was the visit just aimed at consultations about the prospective candidates? No one can say with surety. 

Gen Nawaz is a relative of Raja Zafarul Haq and belongs to a village &#8212; Nara Matore &#8212; located in the suburbs of the federal capital. 

When silence is the order of the day in matters as sensitive as the selection of the next army chief, using simple arithmetic sequencing comes in handy. 

Mr Sharif&#8217;s choice in 1993 was Gen Kakar who was then fourth on the seniority list and in 1998 he picked Gen Pervez Musharraf who was number three on the seniority list. 

Can one say that this time around he would go for the man who would be number two (Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood) and technically also on the panel that would be presented to the prime minister. 

The speculation that Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood would make it to the office is also supported by some ground realities. Gen Mahmood was earlier this year elevated to the coveted office of Chief of General Staff. Eight of the last 13 army chiefs had served as CGS prior to becoming a four-star general. 

Gen Mahmood has served as Lahore Corps Commander which may go in his favour as the Sharifs are in favour of those who have worked in Lahore &#8212; an inclination that is reflected in their key bureaucratic appointments. And don&#8217;t forget the general too hails from Lahore. 

Moreover, Gen Mahmood has remained military secretary to former president Rafiq Tarar. 

Gen Mahmood comes from Baloch Regiment, the parent arm of Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, and as a major general he had served under him in the ISI as deputy director general. 

In Gen Mahmood&#8217;s appointment as the CGS, who is in charge of operational and intelligence matters at the General Headquarters, Gen Kayani has already indicated his personal preference, if one were to read it that way. He also remained aide-de-camp (ADC) to former army chief Gen Aslam Beg, who was held responsible by the Supreme Court in the Asghar Khan case for creating the Islami Jamhoori Ittehad and engineering the 1990 polls. The 1990 elections brought Nawaz Sharif into power at the centre for the first time.

The other person, who is not much discussed among the likely Gen Kayani&#8217;s successors, but is seen as a safe choice by the Sharif camp is Lt Gen Raheel Sharif, who is currently Inspector General Training and Evaluation at the General Headquarters. 

A careerist like Gen Mahmood, he previously served as Corps Commander in Gujranwala and held the prestigious position of Commandant Pakistan Military Academy, Kakul. 

Gen Sharif is the younger brother of Nishan-i-Haider recipient Major Shabbir Sharif. 

Curiously, very few are willing to bet on Lt Gen Haroon Aslam, even though he would be the senior most at the time of Gen Kayani&#8217;s retirement on November 28, provided the seniority list is not affected by any extensions. 

Theoretically, he should be Mr Sharif&#8217;s choice if we go by: &#8220;The next one, the next in line&#8221;. 

Gen Aslam is presently posted as Chief of Logistics Staff at the General Headquarters. 

The current postings of Gen Sharif and Gen Aslam &#8211; slots that are seen in military service as positions where senior generals cool their heels prior to retirement &#8212; are why many do not consider them to be serious contenders for the slot.

Gen Aslam has had a brilliant career in military service where he remained Director General Military Operations, commanded Special Services Group (SSG) and then became Corps Commander in Bahawalpur, before being dispatched to the wilderness of logistics.

His role in Operation Rah-i-Rast (Swat), where he bravely took on Taliban insurgents in their stronghold of Peochar was and is widely appreciated. 

His colleagues in the military simply say that &#8220;there are issues&#8221;, but throw no light on why a high-profile general has ended up in a dead-end job. 

And if this was not a disadvantage enough, others feel that Mr Sharif may not have the stomach for another commando after his tryst with Gen Musharraf. 

Other than Gen Nawaz, whom many are not counting on because his apparent retirement date comes before the succession takes place, the other dark horse in the race is Lt Gen Tariq Khan, Corps Commander of Mangla. 

His fellows describe him as a &#8216;seedha fauji&#8217; (a real soldier) and a hard-task master. 

He successfully commanded counter-insurgency operations in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas as Inspector General of Frontier Corps. 

Other than stories of his gallantry in confronting militancy, what also goes in his favour is that the Americans speak very highly of him. He is a recipient of US Legion of Merit. 

The cornerstone of US policy of the PML-N government, according to a Sharif&#8217;s top foreign policy aide, is to reinvigorate the Pak-US military relationship. 

Gen Khan&#8217;s choice could help the government&#8217;s goal of strengthening military ties with the Pentagon.

Besides, the battle-hardened general is seen by defence analysts as the government&#8217;s best bet to give fresh impetus to the fight against militancy and dealing with the challenges that could arise after the withdrawal of coalition forces from Afghanistan.

Spymaster Lt Gen Zaheerul Islam (director general of the Inter-Services Intelligence) also holds an outside chance. 
The other interesting move to watch would be the prime minister&#8217;s decision about the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee.

The current Chairman Gen Khalid Shameem Wynne retires on October 6. The position is largely ceremonial at present and yet it has remained with the army for the past 16 years, even though in practice it has to be rotated among the three armed services.

The government is thinking about restarting the rotation, which may dent the oversized army clout.

DAWN

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## muse

fatman17 said:


> *New COAS: critical decision coming up for PM*
> Baqir Sajjad Syed
> Published 2013-07-21 09:12:02
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD:
> On both previous occasions he chose men (Gen Waheed Kakar and Gen Pervez Musharraf) who sent him packing months later. Nevertheless, the choices were relatively easier in 1993 and 1998.
> 
> *He now has to look for a man who can deal with the multi-dimensional threats to national security, turn around the country&#8217;s fortunes in the fight against terror and, more significantly, work with the civilian leadership in redressing the civil-military imbalance believed to be at the root of many of the ills the country faces today.
> 
> Last but not the least, the new army chief also has to be in sync with Mr Sharif&#8217;s vision of normalisation of ties with India.
> *
> If his previous words are taken into account, the prime minister does not have a tough choice to make: &#8220;_*I&#8217;ll go by the book. I&#8217;ll go by the merit. Whosoever is the most senior would occupy the job. The next one, the next in line*_.&#8221;
> 
> This would give Mr Sharif a panel of three generals who would then be in service: Lt Gen Haroon Aslam, Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood and Lt Gen Raheel Sharif.
> 
> According to the rules, names from this panel would be sent to him by the defence ministry, which at the moment is headed by Mr Sharif himself.
> 
> Mr Sharif, who according to insiders will be cautious this time around in picking the next man, has already started screening the candidates. In this task he is being helped by the old duo &#8211; &#8216;heir apparent&#8217; Shahbaz Sharif and Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar &#8212; that made the choice for Gen Musharraf in 1998.
> 
> The two have been meeting the people concerned and one such meeting that was noted by many was their visit to Rawalpindi Corps Commander Lt Gen Khalid Nawaz.
> 
> No one is privy to the discussions in the Chaklala Garrison. Is there a move afoot to grant Gen Nawaz an extension before he retires in October and subsequently make him the army chief or was the visit just aimed at consultations about the prospective candidates? No one can say with surety.
> 
> Gen Nawaz is a relative of Raja Zafarul Haq and belongs to a village &#8212; Nara Matore &#8212; located in the suburbs of the federal capital.
> DAWN




We said earlier, the right man for the job - So whats the job?:

Look it:[


> B]He now has to look for a man who can deal with the multi-dimensional threats to national security, turn around the country&#8217;s fortunes in the fight against terror and, more significantly, work with the civilian leadership in redressing the civil-military imbalance believed to be at the root of many of the ills the country faces today.
> 
> Last but not the least, the new army chief also has to be in sync with Mr Sharif&#8217;s vision of normalisation of ties with India.
> [/B]



This idiot has been burnt twice before because he does not seem to realize that Generals are an expression of the INSTITUTION that is the Army ---- Being a bunch of provincials, they are going to go with a Yaaro da Yaar instead of focusing on the job at hand --- The INSTITUTION is not going to do anything that it is not persuaded it needs to do and that takes preparation, in particular Ideological preparation -- has this been done? How likely then is ANY choice of ANY person??

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## SSGPA1

*New COAS: critical decision coming up for PM*

New COAS: critical decision coming up for PM - DAWN.COM

This is a good article to read. Some key points from this article:

"On both previous occasions he chose men (Gen Waheed Kakar and Gen Pervez Musharraf) who sent him packing months later. Nevertheless, the choices were relatively easier in 1993 and 1998."

"He now has to look for a man who can deal with the multi-dimensional threats to national security, turn around the country&#8217;s fortunes in the fight against terror and, more significantly, work with the civilian leadership in redressing the civil-military imbalance believed to be at the root of many of the ills the country faces today. 

Last but not the least, the new army chief also has to be in sync with Mr Sharif&#8217;s vision of normalisation of ties with India."

"Mr Sharif&#8217;s choice in 1993 was Gen Kakar who was then fourth on the seniority list and in 1998 he picked Gen Pervez Musharraf who was number three on the seniority list."

"The speculation that Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood would make it to the office is also supported by some ground realities. Gen Mahmood was earlier this year elevated to the coveted office of Chief of General Staff. Eight of the last 13 army chiefs had served as CGS prior to becoming a four-star general. 

Gen Mahmood has served as Lahore Corps Commander which may go in his favour as the Sharifs are in favour of those who have worked in Lahore &#8212; an inclination that is reflected in their key bureaucratic appointments. And don&#8217;t forget the general too hails from Lahore. 

Moreover, Gen Mahmood has remained military secretary to former president Rafiq Tarar. 

Gen Mahmood comes from Baloch Regiment, the parent arm of Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, and as a major general he had served under him in the ISI as deputy director general. 

In Gen Mahmood&#8217;s appointment as the CGS, who is in charge of operational and intelligence matters at the General Headquarters, Gen Kayani has already indicated his personal preference, if one were to read it that way. 

He also remained aide-de-camp (ADC) to former army chief Gen Aslam Beg, who was held responsible by the Supreme Court in the Asghar Khan case for creating the Islami Jamhoori Ittehad and engineering the 1990 polls. The 1990 elections brought Nawaz Sharif into power at the centre for the first time."

"The other person, who is not much discussed among the likely Gen Kayani&#8217;s successors, but is seen as a safe choice by the Sharif camp is Lt Gen Raheel Sharif, who is currently Inspector General Training and Evaluation at the General Headquarters. 

A careerist like Gen Mahmood, he previously served as Corps Commander in Gujranwala and held the prestigious position of Commandant Pakistan Military Academy, Kakul. 

Gen Sharif is the younger brother of Nishan-i-Haider recipient Major Shabbir Sharif."

"Curiously, very few are willing to bet on Lt Gen Haroon Aslam, even though he would be the senior most at the time of Gen Kayani&#8217;s retirement on November 28, provided the seniority list is not affected by any extensions. 

Theoretically, he should be Mr Sharif&#8217;s choice if we go by: &#8220;The next one, the next in line&#8221;. 

Gen Aslam is presently posted as Chief of Logistics Staff at the General Headquarters. 

The current postings of Gen Sharif and Gen Aslam &#8211; slots that are seen in military service as positions where senior generals cool their heels prior to retirement &#8212; are why many do not consider them to be serious contenders for the slot.

Gen Aslam has had a brilliant career in military service where he remained Director General Military Operations, commanded Special Services Group (SSG) and then became Corps Commander in Bahawalpur, before being dispatched to the wilderness of logistics.

His role in Operation Rah-i-Rast (Swat), where he bravely took on Taliban insurgents in their stronghold of Peochar was and is widely appreciated. 

His colleagues in the military simply say that &#8220;there are issues&#8221;, but throw no light on why a high-profile general has ended up in a dead-end job."


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## SSGPA1

In my opinion, Gen Haroon Aslam is the best choice because he is the senior most, he has held key responsibilities, he has taken part in WOT and he is known to be a thorough professional.

I read somewhere that Gen Raheel Sharif is an average officer and is a go with the flow guy. 

I hope that Gen Rashad doesn't make it to the post because of his background. He has served Gen Aslam Baig and former President Rafiq Tarrar and that mnakes him a bit too political for my taste.

Gen Tariq has a reputation as been a pro-American and I would definitely not like to see him at the top (even his reputation of pro-US is just a rumor the damage has been done).

Gen Zaheer, no because he has been chief of ISI. I strongly believe that no ISI chief should become the CoAS. I also believe that a Lt. Gen MUST NOT BE AN ISI CHIEF. The highest rank to serve as an ISI chief should be a Maj Gen. The deputy directors should be Brigadiers. 

Lets see what happens, we need a chief who is better than Gen Kiyani so that next chief can restore the confidence of nation in Pakistan army again. Abbotabad, Salala, drone attacks etc have hurt Pakistan army's reputation. 

Thanks to the officers and ranks who have gallantry fought in WOT and who remain vigilant on the Indian border that people still have some faith in army otherwise last few years have been a complete disaster for the Pakistan Army.

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## fatman17

Gen Nawaz is a relative of Raja Zafarul Haq and belongs to a village  Nara Matore  located in the suburbs of the federal capital

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/260433-next-coas-10.html#ixzz2Zko5K0aW

PML-N religious affairs minister


Moreover, Gen Mahmood has remained military secretary to former president Rafiq Tarar

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/260433-next-coas-10.html#ixzz2ZkoWeodB

PML-N appointed former prez


He also remained aide-de-camp (ADC) to former army chief Gen Aslam Beg, who was held responsible by the Supreme Court in the Asghar Khan case for creating the Islami Jamhoori Ittehad and engineering the 1990 polls. The 1990 elections brought Nawaz Sharif into power at the centre for the first time.



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/260433-next-coas-10.html#ixzz2Zkoxms00

pay-back time!

these are the types of 'relationships' these PMLNers are looking for, not the merit and standing of the general officer.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## fatman17

Monday, July 22, 2013 

*COAS not to be given extension this time: Rasheed*

Staff Report 

LAHORE: President Pakistan Muslim League Awami Sheikh Rasheed has stated that Chief of Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani will not be given extension in his tenure and he will have to go now. 

*Army and government have reservations on each other*, while the chief justice of Pakistan and President of Pakistan would also have to go now. 

While addressing a press conference at a local hotel here on Sunday, Rasheed was of the view that if Article 6 was practiced on Gen Musharraf it would start from October 12, 1999 which would bring more than 870 high ranking people under it. He further said that current government was still working on Musharraf&#8217;s foreign policy.


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## Darth Vader

RazPaK said:


> Anybody as long as it is not Kiyani the na mard.



You cant Use force everywhere , biggest example Russia
Its a critical time Kiyani is not one man show he leads army of million and a country of millions he also have to take in count of them 2 some times silence is better the beating the drum, Wait for right time


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## Johny D

fateh786 said:


> i think decision pending in prime minister house



then it must be Pervez Mushraf...lol


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## Edevelop

*General Haroon Aslam *







- Senior Most. 
- Served in the ISI as one of the Directors General
- He is known as &#8216;a dashing officer&#8217; and has to his credit leading the Swat military operation
- Set to retire in 2014)

*General Rashid Mehmood *






- second in the seniority list
- Currently Corps Commander of Lahore
- Served as Deputy DG ISI to coordinate intelligence operations
- Is the preference of Gen. Kayani for the new army chief.
- He has the reputation of being a reserved officer.
- He is also known as a patient listener and less talkative. In many ways, he is like General Kayani

*Gen Raheel Sharif *






- third in the seniority list
- Is the younger brother of Nishan-i-Haider Major Shabbir Sharif Shaheed)
- He was first entrusted to command the Gujranwala Corps and later appointed as Inspector General Weapon
- is known to Lt General (retired) Abdul Qadir Baloch, a close confidante of PM Nawaz Sharif

*General Tariq Khan *






- fourth in the seniority list
- From Wazirstan. 
- He was awarded Sword of Honor.
- Participated in 1991 Gulf War 
- Commanded the First Armoured Division in Multan in 2006-2007 where he was posted following a successful stint as Pakistan&#8217;s representative in US Central command in 2004-2005.
- Great success fighting against Militants in Bajur, South Waziristan, Dir, Mohmand, Swat and Buner.

*General Zaheer ul Islam *






- fifth in the seniority list
- Belongs to a politically well-established Janjua clan 
- Present ISI chief

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Typically would be one who served as DGISI or CGS but its totally in the hands of the promotion board who submit recc. to PM following deliberations/consensus

Edit: read "mod"


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## Abu Zolfiqar

And blaming CMRs for the ills of the country is rather intellectually lazy and ignores the fact that without the Army doing its role (and beyond) we'd be in a much worse shyt than we are now 

Has nothing to do with civil-mil relations. Has to do with over staffing and mismanagement not to mention corruption from grass roots to exec level; exacerbated by an irresponsible media and a judiciary which is proven to be ineffective and far too political

I don't buy this crap one thin bit about CMRs - except on certain national security matters in which then fauj's gains are offset by civilian fck ups and inexcusable power vacuum (caused large in part due to political squabbling and apathy)


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## Abu Zolfiqar

shahzadasweet said:


> You cant Use force everywhere , biggest example Russia
> Its a critical time Kiyani is not one man show he leads army of million and a country of millions he also have to take in count of them 2 some times silence is better the beating the drum, Wait for right time



His main audience are those whom he commands but given the political and security atmosphere and regional players (vested interests) he's forced to address multiple audiences and play a fine balancing act which I think under given extenuating circumstances he's done well

He placed emphasis on the needs of the individual soldier and for the sake of morale and battle preparedness I'd say he did well. An that too despite many combat related items which the dear civilians didn't make readily available and instead were afforded bc of effective Mil-bus + taking out of funds from officers' pay (that applies to relief Efforts during natural disasters and manmade disasters like IDP crisis)


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## Jango

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Typically would be one who served as DGISI or CGS but its totally in the hands of the promotion board who submit recc. to PM following deliberations/consensus



I don't think a promotion board sits for the COAS.

The procedure as I understand is that the Ministry of Defense sends a list of the senior most generals to the PM< then the PM discusses with his close aides and may also call up the COAS for his advice.

As you said, CGS is the front runner right now as far as present posts are concerned.


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## Saleem

if the ganjas have their way i think the next COAS of pak army will Gen krishnan gopalaswamy

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Correct for the most part; my wording was off slightly 

The bottom line - he who ideally has seniority (though as weve seen not always keeping meritocracy in mind hopefully) and has served in 2 appointments: Staff as well as Command. 

Deliberations are made, MoD consults with PM. Ultimately the ball is in PM court and at that point it can go any which way since the rounding down to 2-3 3 stars has been done. In a situation where there's no political bias or inclination which hopefully there wouldn't be and despite that there are decisions lingering then serving COAS who holds highest seniority prior to handover will be consulted. Given the pressing challenges this will be an appointment which not just Pakistan but a lot of countries will be watching. 

This is to be a process ideally based purely on merit and on ability to confront the domestic and external security challeges we currently face. But emphasis has to be placed on the whole rank and file from grass roots to the top and for that reason the 2 prior appointment areas are so critical


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## Jango

BTW, when is the CJCSC retiring? That is also an important position.

Will PM give it to a PAF or PN officer or will it remain with the Army? I personally think it should be given to the Navy, they have been long neglected.


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## danish__khan

It is a very funny phenomenon that being a commando and SSG officer is being maliciously portrayed as a negative trait for Lt Gen Haroon Aslam for elevation as COAS. It is absurdly opined by some insane quarters that Commandoes are known for raw courage and not for sober judgements. Interesting enough but silly to the core. Being a commando, is a qualification and not a character trait. If a commando officer rises in the ranks and is promoted as a General, he attains all the required qualifications and is closely watched for balance and exacting leadership qualities. 
Comparison is drawn that since Pervez Musharraf was a commando and was erratic and impulsive in his conduct, therefore all commandoes are like him. Funny and absurd. Well Gen Yayah Khan was from Baloch Regiment and he brought shame to the nation in 1971. He was a debauch and drunkard. Thus by same logic we should debar all Baloch regiment officers to be promoted to senior postions. Lt Gen Niazi was from Punjab regiment . Should all Punjab Regiment officers be labelled as cowards? Military intervention ??? Gen Zia ul Haq was a hard core Armoured Corps officer. Disband Armoured Corps ??? By the way Gen Musharraf served more in Artillery than in commando unit.
The propaganda is malafide and attempt to deny well deserved and rightful position of COAS to Gen Haroon.

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## danish__khan

It is a very funny phenomenon that being a commando and SSG officer is being maliciously portrayed as a negative trait for Lt Gen Haroon Aslam for elevation as COAS. It is absurdly opined by some insane quarters that &#8220;Commandoes are known for raw courage and not for sober judgements&#8221;. Interesting enough but silly to the core. Being a commando, is a qualification and not a character trait. If a commando officer rises in the ranks and is promoted as a General, he attains all the required qualifications and is closely watched for balance and exacting leadership qualities. 
Comparison is drawn that since Pervez Musharraf was a commando and was erratic and impulsive in his conduct, therefore all commandoes are like him. Funny and absurd. Well Gen Yayah Khan was from Baloch Regiment and he brought shame to the nation in 1971. He was a debauch and drunkard. Thus by same logic we should debar all Baloch regiment officers to be promoted to senior postions. Lt Gen Niazi was from Punjab regiment . Should all Punjab Regiment officers be labelled as cowards? Military intervention ??? Gen Zia ul Haq was a hard core Armoured Corps officer. Disband Armoured Corps ??? By the way Gen Musharraf served more in Artillery than in commando unit.
The propaganda is malafide and attempt to deny well deserved and rightful position of COAS to Gen Haroon.


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## fatman17

*Opinion The chief&#8217;s matrix * 

Wajahat S Khan

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 



It&#8217;s almost official. By October or November, Pakistan&#8217;s military at large, and then its army in particular, are going to have new commanders.



First, the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee is going to get a new chairman. The probable is Lt-Gen Haroon Aslam and, by fall, he will be the 15th Four-Star (and the 12th general) to assume what is essentially a ceremonial role in an organisation that is toothless but potentially &#8211; if it ever dares to change itself &#8211; a key platform for the future of war in Pakistan.



By the way, the chairman of the JCSC is supposed to be the highest-ranking military official in the country. So it&#8217;s only fitting that Haroon, the senior-most &#8216;survivor&#8217; in khaki after the retirement axe falls collectively on the four top generals ahead of him this autumn, is chosen for this top slot. However, in Pakistan&#8217;s power structures, there are a lot of rules that are supposed to be but that are never meant to be for real. Case in point: the CJCSC &#8216;top slot&#8217; is going to be fancy reward for Haroon, but not a particularly useful one, because the real prize &#8211; chief of army staff &#8211; seems to be going elsewhere.



How&#8217;s this possible? How does the senior-most man in the structure get a ceremonial job? It&#8217;s the tragedy of the matrix, really.



Haroon comes in line after Pakistan&#8217;s most famous chain-smoker, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who is followed by the fail-safe General Khalid Shamim Wynne (the current CJCSC, who &#8211; technically but not practically &#8211; outranks Kayani), the dapper and extroverted Lt General Khalid Nawaz (of the country&#8217;s largest and politically powerful X Corps in Chaklala) and the almost cherubic but very academic &#8216;Pakhtunist&#8217;, Lt General Alam Khattak (of the strategically pivotal Southern Command, headquartered in Quetta). This gang of the top four will go golfing this autumn.



In effect, Haroon&#8217;s appointment in Wynne&#8217;s stead will not be a controversial affair as his seniority will make him the perfect fit for what is &#8211; but again, only on paper &#8211; the top military job in the land. He has commanded an ostensibly important formation, operations-wise, in Bahawalpur&#8217;s XXXI Corps; he&#8217;s done the paramilitary bit as the DG of Punjab Rangers; he&#8217;s been general officer commanding of the Special Service Group during key operations (yes, he is one of those lead-from-the-front commandos who jumps off helicopters); he&#8217;s served as a director in the elite Military Operations Directorate; he&#8217;s completed a foreign war course which, in the army, sets apart the haves from the have-nots; he&#8217;s served as an administrative top gun as chief of staff of another corps as a brigadier; and he&#8217;s an infantryman, making him a representative of the largest arm of the army, the infantry, where he represents the post-&#8217;71 Azad Kashmir Regiment (but not the older, more prestigious battalions). And surprise, surprise: he&#8217;s a Punjabi.



But as he currently serves as a principal staff officer to Kayani, Haroon wears the rather unspectacular ultra-coordinator&#8217;s hat as the chief of logistics staff (CLS): Though not the most glamorous of the GHQ&#8217;s powerful PSO desk jobs, the role makes him perfect for the drag CJCSC office which, essentially, is that of a glorified commissar who coordinates between the three services &#8211; army, navy and air force.



That means a lot of photo-ops, a lot of foreign trips, no operational control, but also much required inter-service synchronisation, maybe even harmonisation, between the dominant khakis and the relatively puny whites and blues. And what better way to keep the sailors and aviators in check than sending in a burly, bespectacled, cane-wielding commando, with 200 pounds and over 50 jumps on his &#8216;red wings&#8217; to &#8216;coordinate&#8217; between the three services at the very classy and colonial, but still rather single-storey, Joint Staff Secretariat.



Thus, Haroon&#8217;s is the classic case of an honourable send-off: as a one and two-star, he was a star. But consolatory desk jobs (like a stint as chairman of the Earthquake Reconstruction and Rehabilitation Authority), the current CLS gig (which was a post lying vacant for bit, waiting for him as he got his commander&#8217;s notch at XXXI Corps), and the nominal command of Bahawalpur (it&#8217;s no Lahore, Karachi or even a strike formation) indicate that his grooming has been carefully managed by the chief&#8217;s secretariat to be good &#8211; but not good enough.



The bottom-line, then, on why the actual number one in the army will get the not-actually-number-one job in the tri-services military combine is simple, but a masterstroke by Kayani: Haroon as CJCSC will be good for army morale (even a &#8216;grunt commando&#8217; from a non-pedigree regiment can rise to the top, without superseding anyone); he will be a blunt, by-the-book answer for the recently elected purveyors of rules and regulations (the &#8216;top general must get the top job&#8217;, as PM Nawaz Sharif and his waistcoated boys insist), and he will carry on with the army&#8217;s control of even the marginally empowered triad of the joint chiefs (where, let&#8217;s be honest, he will be better qualified than anyone the air force or the navy can churn out, only because his recent, though clerical, staff posts as well as his special forces focus qualify him for where the joint service operations are headed). More importantly, the army will look like it follows the rules, &#8216;sacrificing&#8217; its senior-most warrior to the beast of official protocol: That last bit is key.



But, even more importantly, in a country made for blue-eyed boys, Haroon&#8217;s appointment in October will clear the way in November for a man who will take direct control of the fifth largest fighting force in the world. This will probably be an officer known as Lt-Gen Rashad Mahmood. Spelt differently from &#8216;Rashid&#8217;, though pronounced as such, Rashad will be the eighth chief of army staff (before General Tikka Khan, the COAS was called the commander-in-chief, which was too grand a title for Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto not to change) and the 15th general to command the Pakistan Army.



Frankly, Rashad as the 15th chief is much more interesting than Haroon as the 15th chairman. On the seniority list, Rashad comes in seamlessly after Haroon, and will move in as seamlessly into Army House. Why? Because, for now, he seems to be the epitome of the army&#8217;s command and staff matrix, and his boss has done a remarkable job of grooming him as an heir-apparent. But first, some background on how the chief&#8217;s matrix works, and how the cards are stacked to prepare grounds for the most powerful job in Pakistan.



Long before the May elections, General Kayani pulled a knight&#8217;s move by pre-empting debate and combat with any elected government over the future leadership of the army by grooming and promoting (even retiring) different types of brass for different types of roles. The four autumn retirees (listed above) notwithstanding, the race had boiled down to five by earlier this year. The commando, Lt-Gen Haroon Aslam at number one; the contender, Lt-Gen Rashad Mahmood, at number two; the legatee, Lt-Gen Raheel Sharif, at number three; the soldier&#8217;s soldier, Lt-Gen Tariq Khan, at number four. And the spook, Lt-Gen Zahir-ul-Islam, at number five.



The chief&#8217;s secretariat&#8217;s options were limited, but Kayani&#8217;s choices were further complicated by challenges that no mere military secretary could help him solve. How would he manoeuvre any elected PM into making a by-the-book decision that would also feature his own choice? How would he ensure that his constituency, the army itself, would remain impressed with such a choice, and its codes &#8211; written and unwritten &#8211; would be followed?



And, as importantly, how would he keep the Americans relaxed and other &#8216;patrons&#8217; satisfied? The die was cast long ago by Kayani as far back as 2010/11; and its colour was khaki.



To be continued 



The writer, a Harvard Kennedy School Fellow, is a multimedia journalist. He tweets @wajskhan. 



Email: wajskhan@gmail.com

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## fatman17

Sharif mulls next chief of army appointment as Taliban break out of FATA prison.


Author:Farhan Bokhari, Islamabad


Last posted:2013-07-31



Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has began background consultations with key members of his Cabinet to nominate a successor to Army Chief General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, who is due to retire in late November. 

The decision is key to internal stability as Pakistan has been ruled by generals for almost half of its 66-year existence. Sharif also needs a trusted commander who can successfully step up the campaign against the Taliban and ensure the army's support for the planned drawdown of international troops and equipment from Afghanistan via Pakistan by late 2014. 

The army's key role in fighting the Taliban was highlighted on 29 July when up to 100 militants disguised as policemen stormed the main prison in the northern city of Dera Ismail Khan, close to the federally administered tribal areas (FATA). 

US officials say FATA, which borders Afghanistan, hosts a number of safe havens for Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Up to 230 inmates escaped, including at least 25 well-known Taliban militants. The city was slapped with a curfew and the army was called to pursue the militants who fled to FATA. 

"This will be a crucial decision," a senior Western diplomat in Islamabad told IHS Jane's . "The appointment of a new army chief ties in with lots of important factors, both domestic and foreign". 

Analysts said Sharif is considering three army lieutenant generals to replace Gen Kayani. They are Lieutenant General Haroon Aslam, an officer from the Special Services Group who presently serves as the chief of logistics at the army's headquarters in Rawalpindi; Lieutenant General Rashad Mehmood, the former corps commander of the army in Lahore who now serves as the army's chief of general staff; and Lieutenant General Raheel Sharif, also a former corps commander who serves as the army's Inspector General, evaluation, and training. 

COMMENT
The intensity of the Taliban attacks this week highlights the major security issues that face Pakistan's new army chief, with some security analysts saying that the insurgency is the army's greatest challenge, especially given that it is fighting an adversary on its home turf. 

Western diplomats said a rapid deterioration in internal security may also upset the country's relatively recent return to democracy by provoking the army to take charge. 

The diplomats point to the recent army overthrow of Egyptian President Mohammad Morsi that followed large-scale protests, and said Pakistan could witness a similar army intervention if it feels that internal stability is at risk. 

JDW


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## Last Hope

A lot of talk going around for General Haroon Aslam,


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## TaimiKhan

Last Hope said:


> A lot of talk going around for General Haroon Aslam,



He may be made the Joint Chief, he has been side tracked long time ago, the current CGS has a good shot.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Alpha1

I hope Tariq khan becomes the new Army cheif!


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## Armstrong

TaimiKhan said:


> He may be made the Joint Chief, he has been side tracked long time ago, the current CGS has a good shot.



I hope its Lt.General Tariq Khan - He seems competent, a thoroughly professional & very level headed !


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## Saleem

tariq khan will be a disaster for pakistan and its army......


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## Farah Sohail

Saleem said:


> tariq khan will be a disaster for pakistan and its army......



why? Why do u think he will be a disaster for army? many people here have favorable opinion of him


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## Abu Zolfiqar

TaimiKhan said:


> He may be made the Joint Chief, he has been side tracked long time ago, the current CGS has a good shot.



Bingo. With you on that


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## opsroom

General Rashid now COS, he is having the maximum chances due to his present appointment.


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## fatman17

fatman17 said:


> *Opinion The chiefs matrix *
> 
> Wajahat S Khan
> 
> Wednesday, July 31, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> Its almost official. By October or November, Pakistans military at large, and then its army in particular, are going to have new commanders.
> 
> 
> 
> First, the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee is going to get a new chairman. The probable is Lt-Gen Haroon Aslam and, by fall, he will be the 15th Four-Star (and the 12th general) to assume what is essentially a ceremonial role in an organisation that is toothless but potentially  if it ever dares to change itself  a key platform for the future of war in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, the chairman of the JCSC is supposed to be the highest-ranking military official in the country. So its only fitting that Haroon, the senior-most survivor in khaki after the retirement axe falls collectively on the four top generals ahead of him this autumn, is chosen for this top slot. However, in Pakistans power structures, there are a lot of rules that are supposed to be but that are never meant to be for real. Case in point: the CJCSC top slot is going to be fancy reward for Haroon, but not a particularly useful one, because the real prize  chief of army staff  seems to be going elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Hows this possible? How does the senior-most man in the structure get a ceremonial job? Its the tragedy of the matrix, really.
> 
> 
> 
> Haroon comes in line after Pakistans most famous chain-smoker, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who is followed by the fail-safe General Khalid Shamim Wynne (the current CJCSC, who  technically but not practically  outranks Kayani), the dapper and extroverted Lt General Khalid Nawaz (of the countrys largest and politically powerful X Corps in Chaklala) and the almost cherubic but very academic Pakhtunist, Lt General Alam Khattak (of the strategically pivotal Southern Command, headquartered in Quetta). This gang of the top four will go golfing this autumn.
> 
> 
> 
> In effect, Haroons appointment in Wynnes stead will not be a controversial affair as his seniority will make him the perfect fit for what is  but again, only on paper  the top military job in the land. He has commanded an ostensibly important formation, operations-wise, in Bahawalpurs XXXI Corps; hes done the paramilitary bit as the DG of Punjab Rangers; hes been general officer commanding of the Special Service Group during key operations (yes, he is one of those lead-from-the-front commandos who jumps off helicopters); hes served as a director in the elite Military Operations Directorate; hes completed a foreign war course which, in the army, sets apart the haves from the have-nots; hes served as an administrative top gun as chief of staff of another corps as a brigadier; and hes an infantryman, making him a representative of the largest arm of the army, the infantry, where he represents the post-71 Azad Kashmir Regiment (but not the older, more prestigious battalions). And surprise, surprise: hes a Punjabi.
> 
> 
> 
> But as he currently serves as a principal staff officer to Kayani, Haroon wears the rather unspectacular ultra-coordinators hat as the chief of logistics staff (CLS): Though not the most glamorous of the GHQs powerful PSO desk jobs, the role makes him perfect for the drag CJCSC office which, essentially, is that of a glorified commissar who coordinates between the three services  army, navy and air force.
> 
> 
> 
> That means a lot of photo-ops, a lot of foreign trips, no operational control, but also much required inter-service synchronisation, maybe even harmonisation, between the dominant khakis and the relatively puny whites and blues. And what better way to keep the sailors and aviators in check than sending in a burly, bespectacled, cane-wielding commando, with 200 pounds and over 50 jumps on his red wings to coordinate between the three services at the very classy and colonial, but still rather single-storey, Joint Staff Secretariat.
> 
> 
> 
> Thus, Haroons is the classic case of an honourable send-off: as a one and two-star, he was a star. But consolatory desk jobs (like a stint as chairman of the Earthquake Reconstruction and Rehabilitation Authority), the current CLS gig (which was a post lying vacant for bit, waiting for him as he got his commanders notch at XXXI Corps), and the nominal command of Bahawalpur (its no Lahore, Karachi or even a strike formation) indicate that his grooming has been carefully managed by the chiefs secretariat to be good  but not good enough.
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom-line, then, on why the actual number one in the army will get the not-actually-number-one job in the tri-services military combine is simple, but a masterstroke by Kayani: Haroon as CJCSC will be good for army morale (even a grunt commando from a non-pedigree regiment can rise to the top, without superseding anyone); he will be a blunt, by-the-book answer for the recently elected purveyors of rules and regulations (the top general must get the top job, as PM Nawaz Sharif and his waistcoated boys insist), and he will carry on with the armys control of even the marginally empowered triad of the joint chiefs (where, lets be honest, he will be better qualified than anyone the air force or the navy can churn out, only because his recent, though clerical, staff posts as well as his special forces focus qualify him for where the joint service operations are headed). More importantly, the army will look like it follows the rules, sacrificing its senior-most warrior to the beast of official protocol: That last bit is key.
> 
> 
> 
> But, even more importantly, in a country made for blue-eyed boys, Haroons appointment in October will clear the way in November for a man who will take direct control of the fifth largest fighting force in the world. This will probably be an officer known as Lt-Gen Rashad Mahmood. Spelt differently from Rashid, though pronounced as such, Rashad will be the eighth chief of army staff (before General Tikka Khan, the COAS was called the commander-in-chief, which was too grand a title for Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto not to change) and the 15th general to command the Pakistan Army.
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly, Rashad as the 15th chief is much more interesting than Haroon as the 15th chairman. On the seniority list, Rashad comes in seamlessly after Haroon, and will move in as seamlessly into Army House. Why? Because, for now, he seems to be the epitome of the armys command and staff matrix, and his boss has done a remarkable job of grooming him as an heir-apparent. But first, some background on how the chiefs matrix works, and how the cards are stacked to prepare grounds for the most powerful job in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> Long before the May elections, General Kayani pulled a knights move by pre-empting debate and combat with any elected government over the future leadership of the army by grooming and promoting (even retiring) different types of brass for different types of roles. The four autumn retirees (listed above) notwithstanding, the race had boiled down to five by earlier this year. The commando, Lt-Gen Haroon Aslam at number one; the contender, Lt-Gen Rashad Mahmood, at number two; the legatee, Lt-Gen Raheel Sharif, at number three; the soldiers soldier, Lt-Gen Tariq Khan, at number four. And the spook, Lt-Gen Zahir-ul-Islam, at number five.
> 
> 
> 
> The chiefs secretariats options were limited, but Kayanis choices were further complicated by challenges that no mere military secretary could help him solve. How would he manoeuvre any elected PM into making a by-the-book decision that would also feature his own choice? How would he ensure that his constituency, the army itself, would remain impressed with such a choice, and its codes  written and unwritten  would be followed?
> 
> 
> 
> And, as importantly, how would he keep the Americans relaxed and other patrons satisfied? The die was cast long ago by Kayani as far back as 2010/11; and its colour was khaki.
> 
> 
> 
> To be continued
> 
> 
> 
> The writer, a Harvard Kennedy School Fellow, is a multimedia journalist. He tweets @wajskhan.
> 
> 
> 
> Email: wajskhan@**********




The chiefs matrix 

Wajahat S Khan
Friday, August 02, 2013 
From Print Edition 

Part - II



Zero protocol

The writer, a Harvard Kennedy School Fellow, is a multimedia journalist.



The army prides itself on two categories when it comes to positioning its ranks: seniority (age and date of commission) and grooming (tasks assigned on merit). Seniority cant be meddled with, except by superseding a ranking officer, and/or by out-grooming him. As he decided not to take the ill-rumoured second extension, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayanis options eventually lay with grooming the top five soldiers who would survive the retirement axe which he himself wouldnt this fall; some more junior than others, but all as different as continents are apart.

Kayanis matrix had to be fail-safe: with the 2013 elections imminent, his line-up had to be ready before a new prime minister  any new prime minister  would assume office and be in a position to choose his successor. Ultimately, the choice had to be the best of both worlds: Kayanis own, as well as what the rules said. This would induce a premier of any hue to pick Kayanis man  by default as well as design  with almost no room to navigate, short of political scandal. Thus, the administrative strategist in Kayani went to work a few years ago, circa 2010/11, to groom his successor(s) by charting them across the only two slots that matter in the army: command and staff posts.

Simply, command posts are those that grant an officer operational control of deployed forces over a specified covered area. At three-stars, that means a corps command. All five potential successors would play that gig: Haroon Aslam would get Bahawalpurs XXXI; Rashad Mahmood would get Lahores IV; Raheel Sharif would get Gujranwalas XXX; Tariq Khan would get Manglas I; and Zahir-ul-Islam would get Karachis V.

So, check, check, check, check and check on his could-be successors command CVs, making them all equally qualified for the top slot? Not really, and not so fast.

Armies are beasts of hierarchy, but theyre also creatures of legend. While all contenders made it to a corps command, they all knew that, much like George Orwells Animal Farm, all corps commanders are created equal, but some corps commanders are created more equally than others.

In the armys jungle of myth and law, Lahore and Karachi are more prestigious commands; they come with an informal degree in politics for the commander, just because of where they are headquartered. Battle-focused, Mangla is an elite strike formation, hard-tasked to knife into India. Bahawalpur and Gujranwala are holding formations, assigned to assist other, larger corps.

Thus, the tactics of their deployments disclosed the strategy of their boss. Rashad and Zahir were meant for bigger things (the politically sensitive chief of general staff and DG-ISI after Lahore and Karachi, respectively). Tariq, the tough guy of the western front (by 2010, he had done two serious stints with the 14th Infantry Division and the Frontier Corps in counterinsurgency/counterterrorism operations in Fata/KPK, liaised with US Centcom and commanded another strike formation in the famed 1st Armoured Division) would now harden his troops for the perpetual threat from the east.

As for Haroon (GoC of SSG) and Raheel (commandant of Pakistan Military Academy plus another premier infantry divisions GoC), not top guns but not lightweights either, thus, still worth rewarding, would get secondary corps in Bahawalpur and Gujranwala. To those who can read the code, the math was clear: though all had three-stars, some brass was worth more  and better polished, too.

But besides command, there comes a time in every officers life when he has to do a more political desk job  the staff job  and at the three-star level, that means serving as a principal staff officer (where one is within walking/whispering/wooing distance away from the boss). The PSO job reinforces the best and singles them away from the rest. Its also where one gets to lunch, talk golf and of course, work with and impress Kayani.

In this darker world of staff jobs, the chiefs matrix would become clearer: The number two, Rashad, would get the choice chief of general staff (after Lahore, this would peg him as a favourite for COAS). The number one, Haroon, would get the less-glamorous chiefdom of Logistics Staff (readying him for the coordinative role at CJCSC). The number three, Raheel, a war-hero legatee (after all, he is Nishan-e-Haider Shabbir Sharifs brother, but severely underrated by analysts), would get the cumbersome IGT&E (inspector general training and evaluation, a bean counter of sorts).

Zahir, at five, would take the fearsome ISI (not a PSO, but an adjutant to the real ISI chief, Kayani himself, a trustworthy title further enshrined after Karachis politics and terror). Only Tariq Khan, who lives for the field, would remain in the command world and not get a staff job, drilling his strike corps for the day of reckoning with India.

As for the hot favourite, Rashad may have a novices handicap of minus-two in polo, but Kayanis fellow Baluchi is a contender by the very fact that hes led the sensitive Lahore Corps  where he duly interacted with the Sharifs as they held Punjab in the previous administration  and is now Kayanis premier PSO.

This is a double whammy. As the chiefs eyes and ears of the operations and intelligence directorates (MO and MI), Rashad is the institutional Lancelot to Kayanis Arthur  minus the affair with Guinevere. Since his induction as the CGS, hes quickly scored an unsung feat: hauling Pakistan out of a potentially scandalous international mess (anyone remember Fatima Fertiliser and sanctions being debated in US Congress till last winter?) by chairing cooperative task forces and quieting Nato/Isaf down about tackling the flow of IEDs from Pakistan into Afghanistan.

But clearly, theres more to the man than his coveted CGS job. The unremarkable tenets of Rashads remarkable resume feature the same-old-yet-stellar postings: GoC of an infantry division, a foreign war course, chief of staff, etc. But there are two standout jobs that underscore his run for chiefdom.

First, Brig Rashad Mahmood served as military secretary to Nawaz Sharifs favourite president, Rafiq Tarar. On the trust-scale, this weighs him above the others and especially his senior, Haroon Aslam, who was also a brigadier in 1999, but serving as director military operations in a directorate that was tasked to launch the bloodless coup that would depose Sharif in a few hours on October 12 of that year. Coupled with his Lahore command, that accounts for two safe ins for Rashad with the Sharifs, advertently or inadvertently.

Second, Rashad has had an excellent record at the ISI as a two-star. He is the senior-most of a select few general-spies that Kayani  Pakistans first DG-ISI to serve as COAS  has moulded in his own image to bridge the gap between Aabpara and Chaklala (even parliament and GHQ). Credited for reforming  in fact, creating  a critical cell to enhance the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligences efforts at countering violent extremism, Rashad is a living intel legend, hailed from Pindi to the Pentagon. Thus, though he was not conducting airborne assaults in Peochar (like Haroon) or firing his Glock empty from helicopters like Tariq (in Operation Zalzala), he was the brains behind the brawn. Thats big.

But is it big enough? Is Rashad Mahmoods well-constructed Infantryman/ Baluchi/MS/COS/Foreign Course/GoC/Spy Legend/Corps Commander/CGS CV going to work in his favour as October will absorb Haroon  the official number one  as CJCSC, leaving him to be deftly appointed COAS in November, by default and design? Or is the chief really that predictable and all this is smoke and mirrors? Is Nawaz Sharif going to get cornered into a meritorious decision which has been expertly calibrated as Kayanis own? Are the family-friend ties of another contender with the Sharifs going to create a new matrix? Is the anti-Indianess of yet another candidate going to come into play? 

What about the warm operational contacts of at least three contenders with the Americans? What about the immense political power that one of the more junior men holds? And who can predict the unwritten rule that after a gunner in Musharraf, and an infantryman in Kayani, its now a cavalrymans turn? The codes of the chiefs matrix are complex, but there is only one challenge for any soldier: the army must remain united.



Concluded



Twitter: @wajskhan 



Email: wajskhan@**********


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## Jazzbot

General Haroon Aslam is the senior most officer to become COAS. Nawaz shareef already said he will make the next senior he will not pick and chose this time .. but he is reported Haroon is very aggressive and bold soldier and heart beat of army currently. General Haroon is first ever general who fought in operation area with troops as leading officer at last post. An operation where normally a subaidar or max leut or captain commands.































__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=341284482648787





2 things NS will be concerned about Gen. Haroon Aslam:

1) Mustache
2) SSG

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## batmannow

Jazzbot said:


> General Haroon Aslam is the senior most officer to become COAS. Nawaz shareef already said he will make the next senior he will not pick and chose this time .. but he is reported Haroon is very aggressive and bold soldier and heart beat of army currently. General Haroon is first ever general who fought in operation area with troops as leading officer at last post. An operation where normally a subaidar or max leut or captain commands.
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> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=341284482648787
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> 2 things NS will be concerned about Gen. Haroon Aslam:
> 
> 1) Mustache
> 2) SSG


yes sure a big no, without a voice?lol
but what ever , how ever he will be getting the boots for sure? watch this happening!lol

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## F.O.X

Gen Haroon Aslam is the Best choice for COAS .. he is a True General who always stays with his men & supports them in every situation . 

He is the Exact opposite of Gen Kyani (who has a very cool Head & he like to avoid confrontation if Possible ) .. Gen Haroon on the other hand is the Kind .. who will jump into Fire if he has to just so he can complete his task . 

Lets Hope for the Best .. Fingers Crossed .

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## Jazzbot

F.O.X said:


> Gen Haroon Aslam is the Best choice for COAS .. he is a True General who always stays with his men & supports them in every situation .
> 
> He is the Exact opposite of Gen Kyani (who has a very cool Head & he like to avoid confrontation if Possible ) .. Gen Haroon on the other hand is the Kind .. who will jump into Fire if he has to just so he can complete his task .
> 
> Lets Hope for the Best .. Fingers Crossed .



Well Said. I also personally wish we could have Gen Haroon Aslam as our next COAS. We had Kiyani as a cool and friendly and it didn't pay well in WoT. Infact terrorist activities are increasing day by day. The time is here to eliminate these scumbags and a person like Gen Haroon is best suitable for the job. We need this kind of soldier up front.

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## Edevelop




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## F.O.X

Gen. Haroon During Operation Rah-e-Raast

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## Marwat Khan Lodhi

@DESERT FIGHTER was saying that general tariq from tank district would become next COAS.....how much he is right?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Pak-one said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER was saying that general tariq from tank district would become next COAS.....how much he is right?



Nah man.. i said hes competent.. but senior most is Gen Haroon....also a competent general.

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## Hulk

The extension of COAS takes out opportunity for few who could have been COAS. Does it not hurt them?


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## Sedqal

danish__khan said:


> It is a very funny phenomenon that being a commando and SSG officer is being maliciously portrayed as a negative trait for Lt Gen Haroon Aslam for elevation as COAS. It is absurdly opined by some insane quarters that Commandoes are known for raw courage and not for sober judgements. Interesting enough but silly to the core. Being a commando, is a qualification and not a character trait. If a commando officer rises in the ranks and is promoted as a General, he attains all the required qualifications and is closely watched for balance and exacting leadership qualities.
> Comparison is drawn that since Pervez Musharraf was a commando and was erratic and impulsive in his conduct, therefore all commandoes are like him. Funny and absurd. Well Gen Yayah Khan was from Baloch Regiment and he brought shame to the nation in 1971. He was a debauch and drunkard. Thus by same logic we should debar all Baloch regiment officers to be promoted to senior postions. Lt Gen Niazi was from Punjab regiment . Should all Punjab Regiment officers be labelled as cowards? Military intervention ??? Gen Zia ul Haq was a hard core Armoured Corps officer. Disband Armoured Corps ??? By the way Gen Musharraf served more in Artillery than in commando unit.
> The propaganda is malafide and attempt to deny well deserved and rightful position of COAS to Gen Haroon.



SSG should get the message sound and clear that it has failed this nation by churning out a tout like Musharraf. Gone are the days when politicians became the scapegoat for every Army misadventure.


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## Marwat Khan Lodhi

Armstrong said:


> I hope its Lt.General Tariq Khan - He seems competent, a thoroughly professional & very level headed !



He can not become COAS for a specific reason.

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## Armstrong

Pak-one said:


> He can not become COAS for a specific reason.



And what might that reason be ?


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## mikkix

General Haroon Aslam is close to Kayani and in good books of other powers.
All of the above are pro west, these people are the reason why Kayani was getting extension, because kayani wants to make sure that these people will get promotion so that their policy in future will continue, Kayani colleagues 2 years ago are not kayani supporter and kayani make sure they should retire first before his exit.
Haroon Aslam I guess did a job for politics as being a Core Commander of Lahore and have a good relations with PM Nawaz. I don't know whether he visited NS house before election or not but definitely have a good terms with PM.
This is all my analysis....


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## nomi007

Lt. General Raheel Shareef (54 PMA Long Course) is 3rd in line of seniority to be next Army Chief. A former PMA Commandant, he serves as a PSO in GHQ after commanding a Corps in Gujranwala. He is brother of Nishan-e-Haider, Major Shabeer Sharif Shaheed.


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## karan.1970

Was any of the possible candidates in active service during 1971 war with India?


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## TaimiKhan

karan.1970 said:


> Was any of the possible candidates in active service during 1971 war with India?



Nops, even the current COAS Kiyani got commission after the 71 war.


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## karan.1970

TaimiKhan said:


> Nops, even the current COAS Kiyani got commission after the 71 war.



oh! I remember reading somewhere that Kayani would be the last COAS who was in army during 1971.. May be I read wrong then..Kayani would have been over 19 years in 1971, so yeah he probably would have been in the Pakistani Military academy or something at that time


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## third eye

Even though as they say lightening does not strike twice at the same place, this subject must be uppermost in Nawaz's mind.

One hopes he chooses wisely, and does not allow him to go to Srl Lanka or else lightening may just strike twice.


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## Anotherangle

Merit! Merit! Merit! give the position to the senior most; 
(although I do not think the swat operation was a great achievement, still the merit means the most senior)


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## S.U.R.B.

Lt.General Haroon should be given the honor ,if seniority is considered. Nawaz should (let's say wants to) do the same as he had a bad experience during his last tenure.He (talking about Haroon) is quite a strict man,a man of rules,SOPs. One can predict that he'll uphold the honor of his institution if got promoted.The matter that he was a former GOC-SSG and hence his promotion will carry some resemblance with that of the Musharraf's.

It doesn't look like that the government will wave him aside.As the military has moved itself away from intervening in the decision making process of the civilian government,so, the civilian government will consider and regard this fact as a positive change, which is very much expected.And will let the deserving and the one in line his due chance to be the chief.

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## Icarus

If my opinion carried any weight, I'd have chosen Tariq Khan for the job. The man has what it takes to see the country and the military through these turbulent times. He is not afraid to take harsh decisions and knows how to employ his men to their optimum capability. He is a very capable commander and enjoys a good reputation with the enlisted men who view him as a 'Soldier's General'. 
My second choice would be Gen. Haroon for similar reasons but as per my sources, his chances are slim at best. If my sources are to be believed, it's Gen. Rashid who's going to be the man in the hot seat.

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## TaimiKhan

Icarus said:


> If my opinion carried any weight, I'd have chosen Tariq Khan for the job. The man has what it takes to see the country and the military through these turbulent times. He is not afraid to take harsh decisions and knows how to employ his men to their optimum capability. He is a very capable commander and enjoys a good reputation with the enlisted men who view him as a 'Soldier's General'.
> My second choice would be Gen. Haroon for similar reasons but as per my sources, his chances are slim at best. If my sources are to be believed, it's Gen. Rashid who's going to be the man in the hot seat.



Gen Rashid is Kiyani's choice, and the Sharif's are resisting it or not in a mood for him as he is picked by Kiyani, thus Kiyani is in a stress / tension due to this thing. He wants to make Haroon CJCSC, Haroon is not in his good books, recently Haroon after taking the CLS job cancelled or did not awarded billions of Rs contract for the Kiyani brothers which has further infuriated Kiyani in a way. 

Raheel Sharif is not that caliber of a soldier who can lead the army as per what i have come to know. 

Tariq with his toooooooooooooooooo much pro american track record and supposedly another allegation is not viewed as positively as he should be. There is even no favor at the higher ranks for him to take the job. 

Sharif's are in a dilemma, as they not sure who to pick and who will be a good choice for them, Kiyani had stressed to him about picking Rashid, to which Nawaz Sharif has so far said NO. 

So if as per Nawaz Sharif's word we go, then seniority is to be seen, Haroon is the man and i believe he is the right choice. 

But there is still time, thus lets see.

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## Mosamania

Lt. General Muhammad Zheer UlIslam will win obviously. No one can beat that mustache...

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## PWFI

Mosamania said:


> Lt. General Muhammad Zheer UlIslam will win obviously. No one can beat that mustache...



Isn't he the boss of ISI ?


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## farhan_9909

Was watching a couple of videos of tariq khan.his speaking power is awesome.probably the only expected COAS of PA with a very good hold on english aswell

i hope the choice is Lt.Gen Tariq Khan

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## Muradk

Simple fact whether you like it or not. Region of Pakistan is so messed up that US will not let them choose a COAS just on qualifications. US knows that PAK Army is big and very good, So after Mushy US had no problems putting a sling around Gen Kayani's neck and his pocket. They will have NS choose the person they want just like the ediot right now. I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory, End of the world blah blah blah but thanks to Kayani all they have to do is look for the Top 10 Generals and see which one is willing to sit in their lap/Dollars.

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## Star Wars

@Muradk Nice to see you here sir ... How have you been lately ?

Don't the Pak army themselves have no influence on who becomes CAOS , if so .. can they not pressurize Nawaz to choose whom they want.. ?


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## Dr. Strangelove

Lt.General Haroon and no one else


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## farhan_9909

Muradk said:


> Simple fact whether you like it or not. Region of Pakistan is so messed up that US will not let them choose a COAS just on qualifications. US knows that PAK Army is big and very good, So after Mushy US had no problems putting a sling around Gen Kayani's neck and his pocket. They will have NS choose the person they want just like the ediot right now. I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory, End of the world blah blah blah but thanks to Kayani all they have to do is look for the Top 10 Generals and see which one is willing to sit in their lap/Dollars.



if so is the case 

than sir if i am not wrong..the tariq khan is suppose to be very pro USA?
isnt he?


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## Icarus

TaimiKhan said:


> Gen Rashid is Kiyani's choice, and the Sharif's are resisting it or not in a mood for him as he is picked by Kiyani, thus Kiyani is in a stress / tension due to this thing. He wants to make Haroon CJCSC, Haroon is not in his good books, recently Haroon after taking the CLS job cancelled or did not awarded billions of Rs contract for the Kiyani brothers which has further infuriated Kiyani in a way.
> 
> Raheel Sharif is not that caliber of a soldier who can lead the army as per what i have come to know.
> 
> Tariq with his toooooooooooooooooo much pro american track record and supposedly another allegation is not viewed as positively as he should be. There is even no favor at the higher ranks for him to take the job.
> 
> Sharif's are in a dilemma, as they not sure who to pick and who will be a good choice for them, Kiyani had stressed to him about picking Rashid, to which Nawaz Sharif has so far said NO.
> 
> So if as per Nawaz Sharif's word we go, then seniority is to be seen, Haroon is the man and i believe he is the right choice.
> 
> But there is still time, thus lets see.



Tariq Khan's pro-American tag is ill-earned, I served under him during the Bajaur Op and he's quite curt with them. He's not pro-American, he's diplomatic. He knows how to make use of their services correctly and at the given time, can give them a good kick in the back. He's handled Anne Patterson and McCrystal in front of me and the man really gave them a piece of his mind. There was once an American led ISAF incursion into Pakistan and Tariq Khan did not hesitate to order the use of force to dislodge them if necessary. The man is fit from my experience.

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## Last Hope

Icarus said:


> Tariq Khan's pro-American tag is ill-earned, I served under him during the Bajaur Op and he's quite curt with them. He's not pro-American, he's diplomatic. He knows how to make use of their services correctly and at the given time, can give them a good kick in the back. He's handled Anne Patterson and McCrystal in front of me and the man really gave them a piece of his mind. There was once an American led ISAF incursion into Pakistan and Tariq Khan did not hesitate to order the use of force to dislodge them if necessary. The man is fit from my experience.



If you're right, Gen. Tariq can bring US hardware into Pakistan (this is both good and bad).

What about Gen. Khalid Nawaz?


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## Icarus

Last Hope said:


> If you're right, Gen. Tariq can bring US hardware into Pakistan (this is both good and bad).
> 
> What about Gen. Khalid Nawaz?



He's retired.

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## Xeric

Ah...

It wont be me, that i can assure you

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## Icarus

Xeric said:


> Ah...
> 
> It wont be me, that i can assure you



You might be one after this chief is exhausted. BTW, what course are you from if you don't mind me asking?

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## Xeric

Icarus said:


> You might be one after this chief is exhausted. BTW, what course are you from if you don't mind me asking?



i am from a lamba chora course, and that'll be all.

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## Armstrong

Xeric said:


> i am from a lamba chora course, and that'll be all.



Sir waisee aaap kaun seiii fighting arm seii haiiin ?


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## Last Hope

Armstrong said:


> Sir waisee aaap kaun seiii fighting arm seii haiiin ?



The ones that make you hear big booms from way inside enemy lines

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## Argus Panoptes

Last Hope said:


> The ones that make you hear big booms from way inside enemy lines



Utt-Tirr-Leeeeee!

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## Alpha1

Last Hope said:


> The ones that make you hear big booms from way inside enemy lines



medium, heavy , self-propelled ? @Xeric


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## Last Hope

Alpha1 said:


> medium, heavy , self-propelled ?



Why don't you ask the man himself?


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## Durrak

Last Hope said:


> Why don't you ask the man himself?



Number please ..... !!!
!


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## Bratva

Icarus said:


> Tariq Khan's pro-American tag is ill-earned, I served under him during the Bajaur Op and he's quite curt with them. He's not pro-American, he's diplomatic. *He knows how to make use of their services correctly and at the given time, can give them a good kick in the back. He's handled Anne Patterson and McCrystal in front of me and the man really gave them a piece of his mind. There was once an American led ISAF incursion into Pakistan and Tariq Khan did not hesitate to order the use of force to dislodge them if necessary.* The man is fit from my experience.




"Military Intelligence ki aankh app ko dekh rahi hai"

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## Bratva

TaimiKhan said:


> Gen Rashid is Kiyani's choice, and the Sharif's are resisting it or not in a mood for him as he is picked by Kiyani, thus Kiyani is in a stress / tension due to this thing. He wants to make Haroon CJCSC, Haroon is not in his good books, recently Haroon after taking the CLS job cancelled or did not awarded billions of Rs contract for the Kiyani brothers which has further infuriated Kiyani in a way.
> 
> Raheel Sharif is not that caliber of a soldier who can lead the army as per what i have come to know.
> 
> Tariq with his toooooooooooooooooo much pro american track record and supposedly another allegation is not viewed as positively as he should be. There is even no favor at the higher ranks for him to take the job.
> 
> Sharif's are in a dilemma, as they not sure who to pick and who will be a good choice for them, Kiyani had stressed to him about picking Rashid, to which Nawaz Sharif has so far said NO.
> 
> So if as per Nawaz Sharif's word we go, then seniority is to be seen, Haroon is the man and i believe he is the right choice.
> 
> But there is still time, thus lets see.



Military Intelligence ki aankh app ko bhe dekh rahi hai and Kiyani is still their Boss


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## Kompromat

Im personally betting on General Tariq, because this fight is personal for him and he knows the area like the back of his hand.

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## Kompromat

*Guessing game as Pakistan's army chief prepares to retire*

18 AUG 2013 13:12 REUTERS

*General Ashfaq Kayani, arguably the most powerful man in the nuclear-armed country, is expected to step down after six years in November&#8212;presenting Pakistan's new premier with the toughest of choices yet since coming to power in May.*

The army has ruled Pakistan for more than half of its history since independence in 1947. But even during periods of civilian rule, the army has set security and foreign policy.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif says he wants to disentangle the military from politics and he has taken over the foreign affairs and defence portfolios in an apparent show of determination to wrest those responsibilities from the army.

But the military is unlikely to relinquish its hold at such a sensitive time. As Western forces prepare to withdraw from Afghanistan by the end of next year, Pakistan is striving to prevent old rival India from increasing its influence there.

Illustrating the difficulties Sharif might face in setting foreign policy, his bid to improve ties with India has been undermined by violence between Indian and Pakistani forces in the disputed Kashmir region. While the two armies trade fire and blame, Pakistan's civilian government can only look on.

Nevertheless, the Pakistani military has meddled less in politics under Kayani, earning him a reputation as a pragmatic leader willing to ease the military's grip on political affairs and publicly endorse democracy.

Sharif, himself ousted in a military coup in 1999, has a difficult relationship with the army, and picking Kayani's successor could be the defining moment of his second term.

"It's not just that Nawaz wants someone he can trust and who he can use to neutralise the army's political role," one retired senior military official told Reuters. "The army also wants someone who will be able to work with Nawaz."

The job has been at the centre of a drawn-out guessing game and officials would not speculate publicly on it. But in private interviews with army officers, politicians and diplomats, several names have emerged as possible contenders.

Those include Lieutenant General Rashad Mahmood, the current chief of general staff, Lieutenant General Tariq Khan, who is considered pragmatic on US relations, and Lieutenant General Haroon Aslam, the most senior official after Kayani.

Some have even floated the idea that Kayani&#8212;whose term was extended for three years in 2010 to the discontent of some of the top brass climbing the ranks below him&#8212;might end up staying in the job for another three years.

"No guarantees'

Kayani, a chain-smoking, unsmiling man known for his low-key manner, is dubbed the Quiet General of Pakistani politics. His public statements in support of Pakistan's transition to democracy have earned him respect in the West.

In a speech just before the May election, Kayani said a bad democracy was better than the worst kind of dictatorship. And yet his words hardly concealed a warning that the army's support for democracy would not be available forever.

"Everyone says that under Kayani the army is now transformed and we can trust in its democratic credentials. But let's not jump the gun," said a source in Sharif's administration.

"One era of soft military leadership does not make for a lasting legacy. The civilians will have to work hard to make sure everyone knows their limits."

But even under Kayani some generals have grumbled quietly over the softer approach, and a new army chief might feel pressure to exert his authority over the civilians.

This could set the military on a collision course with Sharif again, like in 1999 when he was overthrown by General Pervez Musharraf and jailed. Just a year earlier, Sharif had picked Musharraf as his new army chief.

"There are no guarantees the current status quo will last beyond Kayani," said one diplomat in Islamabad.

Criticising the top brass has long been taboo. But that too has changed after the Supreme Court ruled last year that the military must stop interfering in politics, eroding the generals' untouchable status in the eyes of the public.

The army's standing also took a hit over a secret 2011 operation by US forces to kill Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil. Ordinary Pakistanis saw it as a violation of sovereignty that the army had failed to prevent.

Technically, Kayani has to come up with a shortlist of three candidates and send it to Sharif for approval. In reality, Sharif may not have much choice but he will at least try to strike a semblance of balance, officials say.

"A super assertive new chief whose first priority is to win back the former glory of his institution and a prime minister who likes being the boss and won't share the spotlight with anyone. That's an interesting combination," said one official close to outgoing President Asif Ali Zardari.

"The new crop of generals are not even remotely as patient as [Kayani] when it comes to the screw-ups of civilian leaders." - Reuters

Guessing game as Pakistan's army chief prepares to retire | News | World | Mail & Guardian


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## Al Bhatti

Aug 19, 2013 







General Ashfaq Kayani is arguably the most powerful man in the nuclear-armed country.



Pakistan ponders army chief choice

In a nation long plagued by military coups, the question of who will replace Pakistan's all-powerful army chief has taken on new urgency this year as the country tries to shake off the legacy of decades of military dictatorship.

General Ashfaq Kayani, arguably the most powerful man in the nuclear-armed country, is expected to step down after six years in November - presenting Pakistan's new premier with the toughest of choices yet since coming to power in May.

The army has ruled Pakistan for more than half of its history since independence in 1947. But even during periods of civilian rule, the army has set security and foreign policy.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif says he wants to disentangle the military from politics and he has taken over the foreign affairs and defense portfolios in an apparent show of determination to wrest those responsibilities from the army.

But the military is unlikely to relinquish its hold at such a sensitive time. As Western forces prepare to withdraw from Afghanistan by the end of next year, Pakistan is striving to prevent old rival India from increasing its influence there.

Illustrating the difficulties Mr Sharif might face in setting foreign policy, his bid to improve ties with India has been undermined by violence between Indian and Pakistani forces in the disputed Kashmir region. While the two armies trade fire and blame, Pakistan's civilian government can only look on.

Nevertheless, the Pakistani military has meddled less in politics under Gen Kayani, earning him a reputation as a pragmatic leader willing to ease the military's grip on political affairs and publicly endorse democracy.

Mr Sharif, himself ousted in a military coup in 1999, has a difficult relationship with the army, and picking Kayani's successor could be the defining moment of his second term.

"It's not just that Nawaz wants someone he can trust and who he can use to neutralize the army's political role," one retired senior military official said. "The army also wants someone who will be able to work with Nawaz."

The job has been at the centre of a drawn-out guessing game and officials would not speculate publicly on it. But in private interviews with army officers, politicians and diplomats, several names have emerged as possible contenders.

Those include Lieutenant General Rashad Mahmood, the current chief of general staff, Lieutenant General Tariq Khan, who is considered pragmatic on US relations, and Lieutenant General Haroon Aslam, the most senior official after Gen Kayani.

Some have even floated the idea that Gen Kayani - whose term was extended for three years in 2010 to the discontent of some of the top brass climbing the ranks below him - might end up staying in the job for another three years.

Gen Kayani, a chain-smoking, unsmiling man known for his low-key manner, is dubbed the Quiet General of Pakistani politics. His public statements in support of Pakistan's transition to democracy have earned him respect in the West.

In a speech just before the May election, Gen Kayani said a bad democracy was better than the worst kind of dictatorship. And yet his words hardly concealed a warning that the army's support for democracy would not be available forever.

"Everyone says that under Kayani the army is now transformed and we can trust in its democratic credentials. But let's not jump the gun," said a source in Mr Sharif's administration.

"One era of soft military leadership does not make for a lasting legacy."

But even under Gen Kayani some generals have grumbled quietly over the softer approach, and a new army chief might feel pressure to exert his authority over the civilians.

This could set the military on a collision course with Mr Sharif again, like in 1999 when he was overthrown by General Pervez Musharraf and jailed. Just a year earlier, Mr Sharif had picked Gen Musharraf as his new army chief.

"There are no guarantees the current status quo will last beyond Kayani," said one diplomat in Islamabad.

Pakistan ponders army chief choice - The National


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## Zarvan

Al Bhatti said:


> Aug 19, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> General Ashfaq Kayani is arguably the most powerful man in the nuclear-armed country.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan ponders army chief choice
> 
> In a nation long plagued by military coups, the question of who will replace Pakistan's all-powerful army chief has taken on new urgency this year as the country tries to shake off the legacy of decades of military dictatorship.
> 
> General Ashfaq Kayani, arguably the most powerful man in the nuclear-armed country, is expected to step down after six years in November - presenting Pakistan's new premier with the toughest of choices yet since coming to power in May.
> 
> The army has ruled Pakistan for more than half of its history since independence in 1947. But even during periods of civilian rule, the army has set security and foreign policy.
> 
> Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif says he wants to disentangle the military from politics and he has taken over the foreign affairs and defense portfolios in an apparent show of determination to wrest those responsibilities from the army.
> 
> But the military is unlikely to relinquish its hold at such a sensitive time. As Western forces prepare to withdraw from Afghanistan by the end of next year, Pakistan is striving to prevent old rival India from increasing its influence there.
> 
> Illustrating the difficulties Mr Sharif might face in setting foreign policy, his bid to improve ties with India has been undermined by violence between Indian and Pakistani forces in the disputed Kashmir region. While the two armies trade fire and blame, Pakistan's civilian government can only look on.
> 
> Nevertheless, the Pakistani military has meddled less in politics under Gen Kayani, earning him a reputation as a pragmatic leader willing to ease the military's grip on political affairs and publicly endorse democracy.
> 
> Mr Sharif, himself ousted in a military coup in 1999, has a difficult relationship with the army, and picking Kayani's successor could be the defining moment of his second term.
> 
> "It's not just that Nawaz wants someone he can trust and who he can use to neutralize the army's political role," one retired senior military official said. "The army also wants someone who will be able to work with Nawaz."
> 
> The job has been at the centre of a drawn-out guessing game and officials would not speculate publicly on it. But in private interviews with army officers, politicians and diplomats, several names have emerged as possible contenders.
> 
> Those include Lieutenant General Rashad Mahmood, the current chief of general staff, Lieutenant General Tariq Khan, who is considered pragmatic on US relations, and Lieutenant General Haroon Aslam, the most senior official after Gen Kayani.
> 
> Some have even floated the idea that Gen Kayani - whose term was extended for three years in 2010 to the discontent of some of the top brass climbing the ranks below him - might end up staying in the job for another three years.
> 
> Gen Kayani, a chain-smoking, unsmiling man known for his low-key manner, is dubbed the Quiet General of Pakistani politics. His public statements in support of Pakistan's transition to democracy have earned him respect in the West.
> 
> In a speech just before the May election, Gen Kayani said a bad democracy was better than the worst kind of dictatorship. And yet his words hardly concealed a warning that the army's support for democracy would not be available forever.
> 
> "Everyone says that under Kayani the army is now transformed and we can trust in its democratic credentials. But let's not jump the gun," said a source in Mr Sharif's administration.
> 
> "One era of soft military leadership does not make for a lasting legacy."
> 
> But even under Gen Kayani some generals have grumbled quietly over the softer approach, and a new army chief might feel pressure to exert his authority over the civilians.
> 
> This could set the military on a collision course with Mr Sharif again, like in 1999 when he was overthrown by General Pervez Musharraf and jailed. Just a year earlier, Mr Sharif had picked Gen Musharraf as his new army chief.
> 
> "There are no guarantees the current status quo will last beyond Kayani," said one diplomat in Islamabad.
> 
> Pakistan ponders army chief choice - The National



Nawaz should deploy the senior most one and stop thinking off any stupidity and haroon aslam is the senior most and a capable man who also went into swat


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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


> Nawaz should deploy the senior most one and stop thinking off any stupidity and haroon aslam is the senior most and a capable man who also went into swat



Haroon Aslam - Is someone who leads from the front, and has been engaged in battle himself.

Gen Tariq - Lost his son in the battle, this fight is personal for him, he's from a remote area in the tribal region and knows the cultural and geographic side of the battle.

It will be a win win either way, i personally would like to see Gen Tariq, but thats just me.

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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> Haroon Islam - Is someone who leads from the front, and has been engaged in battle himself.
> 
> Gen Tariq - Lost his son in the battle, this fight is personal for him, he's from a remote area in the tribal region and knows the cultural and geographic side of the battle.
> 
> It will be a win win either way, i personally would like to see Gen Tariq, but thats just me.


Army should maintain the senior most thing other wise that would not send good message because those who become Lt Generals are the best by the way is Haroon Aslam SSG guy ?


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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


> Army should maintain the senior most thing other wise that would not send good message because those who become Lt Generals are the best by the way is Haroon Aslam SSG guy ?



Oh yes, Lt-Gen Haroon is from the SSG. He is known as a 'soldier's man'.

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## Kompromat

3- Lt General Raheel Sharif: *Third in the seniority list post October retirements, Lt General Raheel Sharif is younger brother of Nishan-i-Haider Major Shabbir Sharif Shaheed.
*
Promoted as a Lt General in October 2010, he was first entrusted to command the Gujranwala Corps and later appointed as Inspector General Weapons, Training and Evaluation. As a two star general, he commanded the 11th division in Lahore and was later posted as Commandant Pakistan Military Academy Kakul.

It was a surprise for some when Major General Raheel Sharif was promoted as a three star general as it was thought he had already reached the peak of his career.

However, some sources say, Lt General Raheel Sharif is known to Lt General (retired) Abdul Qadir Baloch, a close confidante of PM Nawaz Sharif. If the PM consults his cabinet for the suggestions, Lt General (retd) Abdul Qadir Baloch is said to be favourable to an officer who served under him and is known as a simple career officer.

However, this relationship would not be given much weight when the PM takes the final decision based on considerations of merit, professional competence and dynamism to tackle the challenges of militancy and withdrawal of international forces from Afghanistan. He is expected to retire in October 2014.


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## Kompromat

Just added a poll.


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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> Oh yes, Lt-Gen Haroon is from the SSG. He is known as a 'soldier's man'.


Some times he looks like a professor who is also a volunteer soldier

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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


> Some times he looks like a professor who is also a volunteer soldier



A good warrior is a worrier who's multi talented. I have a great admiration for, Gen Tariq's orating ability.

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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> A good warrior is a worrier who's multi talented. I have a great admiration for, Gen Tariq's orating ability.


Was his son a soldier ?


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## Xeric

My vote is for Gen Tariq. It was a pleasure serving under him, and most important of all, he is a 'modern' general

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## Xeric

Last Hope said:


> The ones that make you hear big booms from way inside enemy lines





Alpha1 said:


> medium, heavy , self-propelled ? @Xeric





Last Hope said:


> Why don't you ask the man himself?


Guys, i m from Pakistan Coast Guards, so chilax!

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## Farah Sohail

Xeric said:


> My vote is for Gen Tariq. It was a pleasure serving under him, and most important of all, he is a 'modern' general



Sir...what do u mean by a modern general here? Modern ...as in his personal religious beliefs..i-e secular...or modern in his professional approach?


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## Xeric

Farah Sohail said:


> Sir...what do u mean by a modern general here? Modern ...as in his personal religious beliefs..i-e secular...or modern in his professional approach?



Modern in outlook, professionalism, unorthodox and being tech savvy.

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## Zarvan

Xeric said:


> Modern in outlook, professionalism, unorthodox and being tech savvy.



For me he should have a Muslim out look and brain of best warrior

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## greatf

Gen Rashad Mahmood (CGS) will be the next COAS.


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## Zarvan

greatf said:


> Gen Rashad Mahmood (CGS) will be the next COAS.



I think it would be Haroon Aslam


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## Edevelop

Aeronaut said:


> 3- Lt General Raheel Sharif: *Third in the seniority list post October retirements, Lt General Raheel Sharif is younger brother of Nishan-i-Haider Major Shabbir Sharif Shaheed.
> *
> Promoted as a Lt General in October 2010, he was first entrusted to command the Gujranwala Corps and later appointed as Inspector General Weapons, Training and Evaluation. As a two star general, he commanded the 11th division in Lahore and was later posted as Commandant Pakistan Military Academy Kakul.
> 
> It was a surprise for some when Major General Raheel Sharif was promoted as a three star general as it was thought he had already reached the peak of his career.
> 
> However, some sources say, Lt General Raheel Sharif is known to Lt General (retired) Abdul Qadir Baloch, a close confidante of PM Nawaz Sharif. If the PM consults his cabinet for the suggestions, Lt General (retd) Abdul Qadir Baloch is said to be favourable to an officer who served under him and is known as a simple career officer.
> 
> However, this relationship would not be given much weight when the PM takes the final decision based on considerations of merit, professional competence and dynamism to tackle the challenges of militancy and withdrawal of international forces from Afghanistan. He is expected to retire in October 2014.



Selection should not be due to relationship with Nishan-i-Haider Major Shabbir Sharif Shaheed. Rather it should be based upon his own Experience and Achievements in the Army

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## Zarvan

cb4 said:


> Selection should not be due to relationship with Nishan-i-Haider Major Shabbir Sharif Shaheed. Rather it should be based upon his own Experience and Achievements in the Army



Nawaz should appoint the senior most because those who reach this status are the best one in the Army so the senior most should be made Army Chief and in this case its Haroon Aslam


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## Edevelop

Zarvan said:


> Nawaz should appoint the senior most because those who reach this status are the best one in the Army so the senior most should be made Army Chief and in this case its Haroon Aslam




Tariq Khan seems to be a very interesting choice. Being a native of the Tribal Areas, recipient of Guard of Honor and achieving success in Bajaur Operations, he has the ability to tackle Pakistan's internal crisis. But one thing that will put him down, at least in public poll is his (potential) soft corner with the West. He participated in the First Gulf War and visited the U.S for a couple of courses

Haroon Aslam is a good all rounder (internal and external situations). He has been part of SSG, Conflicts of Siachen, Kargil and led the Operation in Swat. If the decision is based upon seniority, he is definitely the best man.

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## Icarus

Xeric said:


> My vote is for Gen Tariq. It was a pleasure serving under him, and most important of all, he is a 'modern' general



Tell me this, you were under Tariq Khan in Multan, Waziristan or the FC? Odds are I've probably met you.


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## Zarvan

Icarus said:


> Tell me this, you were under Tariq Khan in Multan, Waziristan or the FC? Odds are I've probably met you.



So you are in Army but the senior most should be made the Army Chief and in this case it is Haroon Aslam


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## Icarus

Zarvan said:


> So you are in Army but the senior most should be made the Army Chief and in this case it is Haroon Aslam



I'm not in the Army, I work in very close co-ordination with them. Seniority has no basis at this level, it is the prime minister's prerogative entirely and nowhere does it state in the constitution that the Chiefs of the Armed Forces have to be appointed according to seniority. The decision must be made keeping in mind the General's past history and their capability as a commander.

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## Zarvan

Icarus said:


> I'm not in the Army, I work in very close co-ordination with them. Seniority has no basis at this level, it is the prime minister's prerogative entirely and nowhere does it state in the constitution that the Chiefs of the Armed Forces have to be appointed according to seniority. The decision must be made keeping in mind the General's past history and their capability as a commander.


Well if he is the senior most and he is Lt General than he is capable other wise How he became Lt General by the way who would replace General Khalid Shameem Wyne I think he would be also close to retirement ? @Xeric


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## kaykay

why so many options?? Doesn't the senior most general will get the post??

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## Icarus

Zarvan said:


> Well if he is the senior most and he is Lt General than he is capable other wise How he became Lt General by the way who would replace General Khalid Shameem Wyne I think he would be also close to retirement ? @Xeric



They are all Lt. Generals and they are all quite capable. But there has to be a more capable man between them because the rank of Lt. Gen is not a uniform measure of a person's capability.

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## Zarvan

Icarus said:


> They are all Lt. Generals and they are all quite capable. But there has to be a more capable man between them because the rank of Lt. Gen is not a uniform measure of a person's capability.



And Who would replace Khalid Shameem Wyne and what is the basically his post these days I mean what are the duties of that post which is now with Khaild Shameem Wyne ?


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## Icarus

Zarvan said:


> And Who would replace Khalid Shameem Wyne and what is the basically his post these days I mean what are the duties of that post which is now with Khaild Shameem Wyne ?



KSW is the Joint Chief of Staff. He chairs inter-services meetings and is charged with inter-services co-ordination.

Who will replace him remains to be seen.

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## Spring Onion

I personally feel Gen Tariq Khan , (Depends on Nawaz sharif and Co's personal agendas whom they select) but I feel he might be a good choice. Though many of his professional traits have already been described my members so I will only add one line and that is, he is also believed to be supporter of or important for Pak-US relations.


There are also rumours , I repeat, rumours/guesses that Kiyani may be granted extension.

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## Zarvan

Spring Onion said:


> I personally feel Gen Tariq Khan , (Depends on Nawaz sharif and Co's personal agendas whom they select) but I feel he might be a good choice. Though many of his professional traits have already been described my members so I will only add one line and that is, he is also believed to be supporter of or important for Pak-US relations.
> 
> 
> There are also rumours , I repeat, rumours/guesses that Kiyani may be granted extension.



That would be not good for Army that means we lack leadership in Army and no one is capable enough to replace an outgoing Army Chief


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## Spring Onion

Zarvan said:


> That would be not good for Army that means we lack leadership in Army and no one is capable enough to replace an outgoing Army Chief



Its NOT about lack of capability. NS might want to continue the flow of things as with new chief he might be feeling starting things from the scratches.
Anyway that is a political rumour and guessing.


Gen Tariq seems to be good choice


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## Zarvan

Spring Onion said:


> Its NOT about lack of capability. NS might want to continue the flow of things as with new chief he might be feeling starting things from the scratches.
> Anyway that is a political rumour and guessing.
> 
> 
> Gen Tariq seems to be good choice



I am for Haroon Aslam he is also from SSG and is a capable man General Tariq lost his son he may be try to make somethings personal which we can't afford


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## Kompromat

@Icarus

I guess, if Gen Tariq becomes the COAS, he can also prove to be a great diplomat in any future Peace and reconciliation drive because of his own FATA background.

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## Icarus

Aeronaut said:


> @Icarus
> 
> I guess, if Gen Tariq becomes the COAS, he can also prove to be a great diplomat in any future Peace and reconciliation drive because of his own FATA background.



I doubt it, the Taliban hate his guts.

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## alimukhtar

Haroon Aslam will replace KSW
Rashid Mehmood will replace Kayani......
Rahil Shabbir Sharif will be VCGS

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## Xeric

Icarus said:


> Tell me this, you were under Tariq Khan in Multan, Waziristan or the FC? Odds are I've probably met you.






On a serious note, you have missed a station, and that Waziristan and FC counts as one station.


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## Xeric

kaykay said:


> why so many options?? Doesn't the senior most general will get the post??



Not neccessarily, primarily because unlike you, we dont lobby when the officers are in their brigadiership and 'make' them senior most so that he could become a Cheif automatically.

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## Last Hope

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=386583074798046

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## Icarus

Xeric said:


> On a serious note, you have missed a station, and that Waziristan and FC counts as one station.



You must be referring to 14 Div, that was what I meant with Waziristan. The Div was stationed there at the time if I'm not mistaken.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Icarus said:


> I doubt it, the Taliban hate his guts.



oh yes they do......and for a reason! He hates their guts and he's made it known to those animals

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Zarvan said:


> And Who would replace Khalid Shameem Wyne and what is the basically his post these days I mean what are the duties of that post which is now with Khaild Shameem Wyne ?



the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (JCSC )basically acts -among many things- as a sort of liaison between 3 services. We've learned, like many militaries in the past that there will be a great need for JOINT military planning and execution. There are direct communication between the services rather than they act on their own and in some cases they do finger pointing and blaming in the event of any failures. "JOINT" is really that-- involving and keeping the Services and their respective Chiefs/Admiral/etc.on same page on planning but especially operation level but also of course working with &advising civ. govt. as well. Doesnt mean he the Chairman controls each service but its more just for direction. We've learned in the past that this is a necessity; in fact even in COIN we have to keep the Services constantly updated and they are planning things accordingly (especially Army/PAF, less the Navy).


oh and to answer your question -- a Chairman (4star) heads the Committe and Gen. Wyne is the Chairman. I believe the term is 3 years.

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## batmannow

*nooray daa nawaa noora drama*








khamosh! kon baney gaa pakistan ka army chief!
stay tunned!


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## Zarvan

batmannow said:


> *nooray daa nawaa noora drama*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> khamosh! kon baney gaa pakistan ka army chief!
> stay tunned!


Kiyani would prove to be the biggest dumbo if he accepts this status


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## batmannow

Zarvan said:


> Kiyani would prove to be the biggest dumbo if he accepts this status


agreed, but what else can he get , cause he is a real dumboo !thats what he is?

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## Ark-Angel

Rashad Mahmood for sure.
Though Tariq Khan and Haroon Aslam are better options but Rashad Mahmood is close to COAS and PML N.


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## Rafi

All have the strong points, in my humble opinion it should be TK he is from the area, where the main insurgency is talking place, his insight is priceless.


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## Farah Sohail

Samaa news is reporting:

Staff Report

RAWALPINDI: Lt-Gen Haroon Aslam is most likely to be appointed as Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) after incumbent General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani retires in November this year.

According to sources, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has been advised by his close aides not to ignore seniority for the appointment of next army chief.

Gen Kayani&#8217;s term will expire on November 28.

In additional, Admiral Asif Sandhela will replace Chairman Joint chiefs General Khalid Shamim Wayne who is retiring on October 6. &#8211; SAMAA

Also, Dr Shahid Masood has updated on his twitter account tht Lt Gen Haroon Aslam will be the next COAS of Pakistan

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## Farah Sohail

Samaa news report abt Lt Gen Haroon Aslam as next probable COAS:

Lt.General Haroon Aslam may become Next Army Chief


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## Zarvan



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## Marwat Khan Lodhi

TaimiKhan said:


> He led the most successful military operations during swat operations and in other regions, responsible for the largest heli assault operation in history of Pakistan, he was previously commanding Bahawalpur Corps, and he is left the senior most after the first 3 retire.
> 
> "Top sources reveal that by October this year, Lt Gen Muhammad Haroon Aslam would be on top of the seniority list of three-star generals. Lt Gen Haroon Aslam is also a commando and he had served in the Military Operations Directorate and with his new appointment as the CLS after serving as corps commander, he would be ready for promotion as a four-star general."
> 
> Major reshuffle in military hierarchy - thenews.com.pk
> 
> So his chances are good, either as Chief or may be CJCSC provided no one from navy or airforce is brought in.



Most members are saying that performance of tariq khan is greater than any general but you are not agreeing with them. It seems you dont want the members thinking that you are favouring general tariq khan because of his ethnicity so chose the second best.


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## That Guy

Honestly? Anyone is fine, as long as they don't get any ideas of leading a nation.


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## Marwat Khan Lodhi

TaimiKhan said:


> I am not in favor of Tariq, as he is a very pro american general, you can say in a way an american stooge, i don't have any positive for him.
> 
> Gen haroon is more favorable, he has been in this war, he fought it on the front line with his troops, whatever experience Tariq has, i believe Gen Haroon has no less.



And how exactly is general haroon anti-american? Thats not a good excuse as entire army has been pro-american from general gracey to kayani. The entire war on terror is assissted and funded by america, tariq khan becharay ka kya qasoor hey?
I have read that tariq khan is popular among jawans, has led operations in FATA and has revolutionized FC yet you are saying big no to him?
Swat operation was piece of cake, abruptly ended, its experience can not be compared with experience in FATA. Moreover you need a pashtun general to tackle war on terror in pashtun belt, only a pashtun mind can effectively and properly assess the complex islamist insurgency which is led by those who grow up in same society and culture as tariq khan.


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## jaibi

I would go with Tariq Khan he is very popular amongst the Jawans and it is about time we have a soldier's soldier lead the army. Though I think that the PML-N will go for a man more tamable and loyal to them.


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## Cyberian

Lets pray the Chief of the Army Staff is one who does not preach American Poodleship to Pakistan or try to force Turkish way of life on Pakistan.

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## Zarvan

ISLAMABAD: With Pakistan's powerful army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani's term coming to an end in November, names of top generals who are likely to succeed him are being discussed in the political circles and in the corridors of power. 

The appointment of the next army chief has gained wide attention in view of past difficulties faced by civilian governments in appointing persons to the coveted post. Another key post, which is the post of the Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) will fall vacant next month and analysts feel that this would have a bearing on who becomes the next chief. 

A number of names are in circulation for the chief 's post and leading the race seems to be Lt Gen Haroon Aslam, currently Chief of Logistics Staff. He will be the senior most General when Kayani steps down. He has served as Director Military Operations, commanded Elite Force Division and had been Corps Commander of Bahawalpur. However, some analysts say he is likely to be made the CJCSC and a final name could be a surprise.
Race begins for new army chief in Pakistan - The Times of India


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## batmannow

Zarvan said:


>


SSG again, noora league going to hve 2 commandos at 1 time?lolzz


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## airomerix

All the 5 candidates are very professional and experienced. 

Fact remains that Lt. Gen Rashad Mehmood, one of the very few corp commanders who has commanded the 4th corp for almost 3.5 years. The rest come and go after an year or so. And its no secret that he has been a good friend with Shareef's. Hence we have a winner I suppose.


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## alibaz

airomerix said:


> All the 5 candidates are very professional and experienced.
> 
> Fact remains that Lt. Gen Rashad Mehmood, one of the very few corp commanders who has commanded the 4th corp for almost 3.5 years. The rest come and go after an year or so. And its no secret that he has been a good friend with Shareef's. Hence we have a winner I suppose.



Agreed with your first line
Don't forget General Tariq has always been on command ever since he promoted to the Rank of Major General which was all in war zone . He is continuously commanding a corps since his promotion to present rank. He and general Haroon have set examples to lead their troops from the front in war zones and am sure others would also have set same example if had the oppertunity, therefore there is hardly any difference amongst these very fine officers. Anyone who rises to this rank has all the potentials to command army. I wish concept of seniority should prevail here.


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## airomerix

alibaz said:


> Agreed with your first line
> Don't forget General Tariq has always been on command ever since he promoted to the Rank of Major General which was all in war zone . He is continuously commanding a corps since his promotion to present rank. He and general Haroon have set examples to lead their troops from the front in war zones and am sure others would also have set same example if had the oppertunity, therefore there is hardly any difference amongst these very fine officers. Anyone who rises to this rank has all the potentials to command army. I wish concept of seniority should prevail here.



If its the seniority to be followed, then Gen. Haroon Aslam is to be the Chairman Joint Staff. Followed by Rashad Mahmood for CoAS.


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## Armstrong

airomerix said:


> If its the seniority to be followed, then Gen. Haroon Aslam is to be the Chairman Joint Staff. Followed by Rashad Mahmood for CoAS.



I think if the Army, again, gets the CJS spot than that would be unfair to the other two forces !


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## tarrar

I hope I voted for the right person but who ever the Chief is going to be, he should always do what is right for Pakistan & he is nothing like mute Gen. Kayani.


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## alibaz

airomerix said:


> If its the seniority to be followed, then Gen. Haroon Aslam is to be the Chairman Joint Staff. Followed by Rashad Mahmood for CoAS.


I don't think it would be army this time. Most probably would go to Navy.

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## truthseeker2010

Why has the name for the next COAS, CJCSC not announced yet, there is little over a month left in their retirement?


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## Rao Sahab

if triq khan became general on the basis of his son sacrifies then i will prefer Lt Gen Raheel Sharif who is the brother of shabeer sharif shaeed (NH)


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## fatman17

*Once bitten, Sharif to pick new army chief*&#65279;


Salahuddin Haider


Published &#8212; Thursday 19 September 2013



More Pakistan was rife with speculations of an army backlash in the wake of brutal killing of two high profile military officers, including a two-star general and a colonel in the tribal belt near Afghanistan border last week. 

Apart from blocking the projected negotiations with the Taleban, the prime minister may also have found it difficult to replace Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani with a new army chief of his choice.

Contrary to expectations, Kayani showed a lot of maturity and issued a statement supporting the elected government in its efforts to negotiate with the Taleban. Kayani, in his statement, categorically stated that dialogue alone could help solve the problem of terrorism.

The menace of terrorism has not only crippled the economy but has also threatened the integrity of the country.

The soft line taken by Kayani &#8212; on his way out after serving two terms as the army chief &#8212; shows that the military has no doubt over the civil government&#8217;s ability to handle the crisis on its own.

Of course, the army chief, retiring in November, did stress that the military was fully capable of meeting the challenges of war with militants, and handling the terrorists, but preferred negotiations over constant engagement as a better option.

His latest statement, coming in the wake of a grim tragedy, displayed tremendous change in the military&#8217;s attitude towards civilian administration, which can easily be interpreted as accepting the latter&#8217;s authority to run the country without any interference.

Most analysts see this as a very positive sign for a country roughed up by repeated military coups aimed at keeping the democratically elected regimes under the military&#8217;s thumb.

Kayani&#8217;s statement has raised hopes that the task of selecting the next army chief has become much easier for the prime minister.

Though, Kayani still has two months to go but his successor has to be named earlier so as to allow the outgoing chief time to dine out and make farewell calls on heads of state, other VIPs and to bid farewell to his own men in various cantonments. 

Speculations regarding further extensions to the tenures of Kayani and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry (whose tenure ends in December) were shot down by Information Minister Pervez Rashid.

He made it abundantly plain that neither of the two has requested for extension nor it is being considered.

While the change in the Supreme Court will come automatically on the basis of seniority. Justice Tassaduq Hussain may be the obvious choice.

There is, however, a little irritant, which the prime minister has to sort out. Chaudhry reportedly has asked for giving him the six months of time lost during his forced resignation in March 2007, and ultimate restoration following a long march by Nawaz Sharif, who had to part company with the then President Asif Zardari over the issue. 

But the army chief&#8217;s choice is the sole prerogative of the prime minister. Seniority does count but is not the only criteria for selection for the top slot. A number of other considerations, including professional competence and loyalty to democratic dispensation also need to be kept in mind. A number of instances could be cited in support of this contention. Former Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto handpicked Gen. Ziaul Haq, then only a corps commander of Multan, for showing to the former his personal loyalty. Eight senior most generals including Majeed Malik, who later became a minister in the Sharif government in 1997, were forced out of job. There is no compulsion under the rules for seniors to retire if a junior supersedes, but convention holds them back from saluting a person junior to him while being in service.

Yet another example was of Nawaz Sharif himself, who picked Gen. Pervez Musharraf, then corps commander of the country&#8217;s most sensitive military sub-headquarter at Mangla near Jehlum, and annoyed his Foreign Minister Gauhar Ayub Khan, for ignoring his brother-in-law, Gen. Ali Quli Khan, for the coveted post. No explanations were needed, neither was any given. Earlier, Nawaz had forced former Army Chief Gen. Jahangir Karamat to quit for demanding a supreme council for defense and security. The idea was mooted many a times and was implemented in Musharraf days but was discarded after Zardari took over as the president. 

Experts, however, considered this a masterstroke from Sharif to save himself from a possible coup d'état. Musharraf was a migrant from India, coming from Lal Haveli, a well known area in the Indian capital, Delhi, and therefore was thought, would be toothless, and incapable of overthrowing an elected government from the Punjab, enjoying support of the Punjabi dominated army.

But just as Ziaul Haq had overthrown Bhutto and later hanged him in 1979, Musharraf too proved a hard nut to crack, and commanded his men to take over control of the country from Sharif while still in the air on a return flight from Sri Lanka in October 1999.

Sharif says he wants to disentangle the military from politics and he has taken over the foreign affairs and defense portfolios in an apparent show of determination to wrest those responsibilities from the army. He has done that tactfully by taking the army chief into confidence, and consulting him on all matters of defense and security, learning from the bitter experience of the past perhaps that over ambition may once again prove fatal. 

Kayani has backed the premier in all major decisions and now Sharif has owned and executed the idea of a supreme council for defense and security, which he had dismissed with utter contempt in his earlier stint in the office. As a recent media report suggested that it&#8217;s not just that Sharif wants someone he can trust and whom he can use to neutralize the army&#8217;s political role. 

The army also wants someone who will be able to work with Sharif.

The job has been at the center of a drawn-out guessing game and officials would not speculate publicly on it. But in private interviews with army officers, politicians and diplomats, several names have emerged as possible contenders.

Those include Lt-Gen. Rashad Mahmood, the current chief of general staff, Lt-Gen. Tariq Khan, who is considered pragmatic on US relations and Lt-Gen. Haroon Aslam, the most senior official after Kayani. The balance, as at present, is tilted in Gen. Haroon&#8217;s favor. The task is not easy, but general environment in the country, where politicians and political parties have made themselves absolutely plain that army&#8217;s domination must end in civilian matters and that army should work under the prime minister, and the Parliament, perhaps has been well understood by the army now.

arab news.

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## rockstar08

let the pentagon decide , as always


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## fatman17

&#8226;According to a report by The News on Thursday, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif will indicate who he intends to pick to replace Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani as army chief *by October 7th*. When Sharif appoints a new chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, the next most senior general will become next in line to be Kayani&#8217;s replacement.[19]


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## fatman17

August 2013.



*The Race for become Pakistan Army chief is on :* 



It&#8217;s almost official. By October or November, Pakistan&#8217;s military at large, and then its army in particular, are going to have new commanders.

First, the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee is going to get a new chairman. The probable is Lt-Gen Haroon Aslam and, by fall, he will be the 15th Four-Star (and the 12th general) to assume what is essentially a ceremonial role in an organisation that is toothless but potentially &#8211; if it ever dares to change itself &#8211; a key platform for the future of war in Pakistan.

By the way, the chairman of the JCSC is supposed to be the highest-ranking military official in the country. So it&#8217;s only fitting that Haroon, the senior-most &#8216;survivor&#8217; in khaki after the retirement axe falls collectively on the four top generals ahead of him this autumn, is chosen for this top slot. However, in Pakistan&#8217;s power structures, there are a lot of rules that are supposed to be but that are never meant to be for real. Case in point: the CJCSC &#8216;top slot&#8217; is going to be fancy reward for Haroon, but not a particularly useful one, because the real prize &#8211; chief of army staff &#8211; seems to be going elsewhere.

How&#8217;s this possible? How does the senior-most man in the structure get a ceremonial job? It&#8217;s the tragedy of the matrix, really.

Haroon comes in line after Pakistan&#8217;s most famous chain-smoker, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who is followed by the fail-safe General Khalid Shamim Wynne (the current CJCSC, who &#8211; technically but not practically &#8211; outranks Kayani), the dapper and extroverted Lt General Khalid Nawaz (of the country&#8217;s largest and politically powerful X Corps in Chaklala) and the almost cherubic but very academic &#8216;Pakhtunist&#8217;, Lt General Alam Khattak (of the strategically pivotal Southern Command, headquartered in Quetta). This gang of the top four will go golfing this autumn.

In effect, Haroon&#8217;s appointment in Wynne&#8217;s stead will not be a controversial affair as his seniority will make him the perfect fit for what is &#8211; but again, only on paper &#8211; the top military job in the land. He has commanded an ostensibly important formation, operations-wise, in Bahawalpur&#8217;s XXXI Corps; he&#8217;s done the paramilitary bit as the DG of Punjab Rangers; he&#8217;s been general officer commanding of the Special Service Group during key operations (yes, he is one of those lead-from-the-front commandos who jumps off helicopters); he&#8217;s served as a director in the elite Military Operations Directorate; he&#8217;s completed a foreign war course which, in the army, sets apart the haves from the have-nots; he&#8217;s served as an administrative top gun as chief of staff of another corps as a brigadier; and he&#8217;s an infantryman, making him a representative of the largest arm of the army, the infantry, where he represents the post-&#8217;71 Azad Kashmir Regiment (but not the older, more prestigious battalions). And surprise, surprise: he&#8217;s a Punjabi.

But as he currently serves as a principal staff officer to Kayani, Haroon wears the rather unspectacular ultra-coordinator&#8217;s hat as the chief of logistics staff (CLS): Though not the most glamorous of the GHQ&#8217;s powerful PSO desk jobs, the role makes him perfect for the drag CJCSC office which, essentially, is that of a glorified commissar who coordinates between the three services &#8211; army, navy and air force.

That means a lot of photo-ops, a lot of foreign trips, no operational control, but also much required inter-service synchronisation, maybe even harmonisation, between the dominant khakis and the relatively puny whites and blues. And what better way to keep the sailors and aviators in check than sending in a burly, bespectacled, cane-wielding commando, with 200 pounds and over 50 jumps on his &#8216;red wings&#8217; to &#8216;coordinate&#8217; between the three services at the very classy and colonial, but still rather single-storey, Joint Staff Secretariat.

Thus, Haroon&#8217;s is the classic case of an honourable send-off: as a one and two-star, he was a star. But consolatory desk jobs (like a stint as chairman of the Earthquake Reconstruction and Rehabilitation Authority), the current CLS gig (which was a post lying vacant for bit, waiting for him as he got his commander&#8217;s notch at XXXI Corps), and the nominal command of Bahawalpur (it&#8217;s no Lahore, Karachi or even a strike formation) indicate that his grooming has been carefully managed by the chief&#8217;s secretariat to be good &#8211; but not good enough.


The bottom-line, then, on why the actual number one in the army will get the not-actually-number-one job in the tri-services military combine is simple, but a masterstroke by Kayani: Haroon as CJCSC will be good for army morale (even a &#8216;grunt commando&#8217; from a non-pedigree regiment can rise to the top, without superseding anyone); he will be a blunt, by-the-book answer for the recently elected purveyors of rules and regulations (the &#8216;top general must get the top job&#8217;, as PM Nawaz Sharif and his waistcoated boys insist), and he will carry on with the army&#8217;s control of even the marginally empowered triad of the joint chiefs (where, let&#8217;s be honest, he will be better qualified than anyone the air force or the navy can churn out, only because his recent, though clerical, staff posts as well as his special forces focus qualify him for where the joint service operations are headed). More importantly, the army will look like it follows the rules, &#8216;sacrificing&#8217; its senior-most warrior to the beast of official protocol: That last bit is key.

But, even more importantly, in a country made for blue-eyed boys, Haroon&#8217;s appointment in October will clear the way in November for a man who will take direct control of the fifth largest fighting force in the world. This will probably be an officer known as Lt-Gen Rashad Mahmood. Spelt differently from &#8216;Rashid&#8217;, though pronounced as such, Rashad will be the eighth chief of army staff (before General Tikka Khan, the COAS was called the commander-in-chief, which was too grand a title for Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto not to change) and the 15th general to command the Pakistan Army.

Frankly, Rashad as the 15th chief is much more interesting than Haroon as the 15th chairman. On the seniority list, Rashad comes in seamlessly after Haroon, and will move in as seamlessly into Army House. Why? Because, for now, he seems to be the epitome of the army&#8217;s command and staff matrix, and his boss has done a remarkable job of grooming him as an heir-apparent. But first, some background on how the chief&#8217;s matrix works, and how the cards are stacked to prepare grounds for the most powerful job in Pakistan.

Long before the May elections, General Kayani pulled a knight&#8217;s move by pre-empting debate and combat with any elected government over the future leadership of the army by grooming and promoting (even retiring) different types of brass for different types of roles. The four autumn retirees (listed above) notwithstanding, the race had boiled down to five by earlier this year. The commando, Lt-Gen Haroon Aslam at number one; the contender, Lt-Gen Rashad Mahmood, at number two; the legatee, Lt-Gen Raheel Sharif, at number three; the soldier&#8217;s soldier, Lt-Gen Tariq Khan, at number four. And the spook, Lt-Gen Zahir-ul-Islam, at number five.

The chief&#8217;s secretariat&#8217;s options were limited, but Kayani&#8217;s choices were further complicated by challenges that no mere military secretary could help him solve. How would he manoeuvre any elected PM into making a by-the-book decision that would also feature his own choice? How would he ensure that his constituency, the army itself, would remain impressed with such a choice, and its codes &#8211; written and unwritten &#8211; would be followed?

And, as importantly, how would he keep the Americans relaxed and other &#8216;patrons&#8217; satisfied? The die was cast long ago by Kayani as far back as 2010/11; and its colour was khaki.


The army prides itself on two categories when it comes to positioning its ranks: seniority (age and date of commission) and grooming (tasks assigned on merit). Seniority can&#8217;t be meddled with, except by superseding a ranking officer, and/or by out-grooming him. As he decided not to take the ill-rumoured &#8216;second extension&#8217;, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani&#8217;s options eventually lay with grooming the top five soldiers who would survive the retirement axe which he himself wouldn&#8217;t this fall; some more junior than others, but all as different as continents are apart.

Kayani&#8217;s matrix had to be fail-safe: with the 2013 elections imminent, his line-up had to be ready before a new prime minister &#8211; any new prime minister &#8211; would assume office and be in a position to choose his successor. Ultimately, the choice had to be the best of both worlds: Kayani&#8217;s own, as well as what the rules said. This would induce a premier of any hue to pick Kayani&#8217;s man &#8211; by default as well as design &#8211; with almost no room to navigate, short of political scandal. Thus, the administrative strategist in Kayani went to work a few years ago, circa 2010/11, to groom his successor(s) by charting them across the only two slots that matter in the army: command and staff posts.

Simply, command posts are those that grant an officer operational control of deployed forces over a specified covered area. At three-stars, that means a corps command. All five potential successors would play that gig: Haroon Aslam would get Bahawalpur&#8217;s XXXI; Rashad Mahmood would get Lahore&#8217;s IV; Raheel Sharif would get Gujranwala&#8217;s XXX; Tariq Khan would get Mangla&#8217;s I; and Zahir-ul-Islam would get Karachi&#8217;s V.

So, check, check, check, check and check on his could-be successors&#8217; command CVs, making them all equally qualified for the top slot? Not really, and not so fast.

Armies are beasts of hierarchy, but they&#8217;re also creatures of legend. While all contenders made it to a corps command, they all knew that, much like George Orwell&#8217;s Animal Farm, all corps commanders are created equal, but some corps commanders are created more equally than others.

In the army&#8217;s jungle of myth and law, Lahore and Karachi are more prestigious commands; they come with an informal degree in politics for the commander, just because of where they are headquartered. Battle-focused, Mangla is an elite &#8216;strike&#8217; formation, hard-tasked to knife into India. Bahawalpur and Gujranwala are &#8216;holding&#8217; formations, assigned to assist other, larger corps.

Thus, the tactics of their deployments disclosed the strategy of their boss. Rashad and Zahir were meant for bigger things (the politically sensitive chief of general staff and DG-ISI after Lahore and Karachi, respectively). Tariq, the tough guy of the western front (by 2010, he had done two serious stints with the 14th Infantry Division and the Frontier Corps in counterinsurgency/counterterrorism operations in Fata/KPK, liaised with US Centcom and commanded another strike formation in the famed 1st Armoured Division) would now harden his troops for the &#8216;perpetual threat from the east&#8217;.

As for Haroon (GoC of SSG) and Raheel (commandant of Pakistan Military Academy plus another premier infantry division&#8217;s GoC), not top guns but not lightweights either, thus, still worth rewarding, would get secondary corps in Bahawalpur and Gujranwala. To those who can read the code, the math was clear: though all had three-stars, some brass was worth more &#8211; and better polished, too.

But besides command, there comes a time in every officer&#8217;s life when he has to do a more &#8216;political&#8217; desk job &#8211; the staff job &#8211; and at the three-star level, that means serving as a principal staff officer (where one is within walking/whispering/wooing distance away from the boss). The PSO job reinforces the best and singles them away from the rest. It&#8217;s also where one gets to lunch, talk golf and of course, work with and impress Kayani.

In this darker world of staff jobs, the chief&#8217;s matrix would become clearer: The number two, Rashad, would get the choice chief of general staff (after Lahore, this would peg him as a &#8216;favourite&#8217; for COAS). The number one, Haroon, would get the less-glamorous chiefdom of Logistics Staff (readying him for the coordinative role at CJCSC). The number three, Raheel, a war-hero legatee (after all, he is Nishan-e-Haider Shabbir Sharif&#8217;s brother, but severely underrated by analysts), would get the cumbersome IGT&E (inspector general training and evaluation, a bean counter of sorts).

Zahir, at five, would take the fearsome ISI (not a PSO, but an adjutant to the real ISI chief, Kayani himself, a trustworthy title further enshrined after Karachi&#8217;s politics and terror). Only Tariq Khan, who lives for the field, would remain in the command world and not get a staff job, drilling his strike corps for the day of reckoning with India.

As for the hot favourite, Rashad may have a novice&#8217;s handicap of minus-two in polo, but Kayani&#8217;s fellow &#8216;Baluchi&#8217; is a contender by the very fact that he&#8217;s led the sensitive Lahore Corps &#8211; where he duly interacted with the Sharifs as they held Punjab in the previous administration &#8211; and is now Kayani&#8217;s premier PSO.

This is a double whammy. As the chief&#8217;s eyes and ears of the operations and intelligence directorates (MO and MI), Rashad is the institutional Lancelot to Kayani&#8217;s Arthur &#8211; minus the affair with Guinevere. Since his induction as the CGS, he&#8217;s quickly scored an unsung feat: hauling Pakistan out of a potentially scandalous international mess (anyone remember Fatima Fertiliser and sanctions being debated in US Congress till last winter?) by chairing cooperative task forces and quieting Nato/Isaf down about tackling the flow of IEDs from Pakistan into Afghanistan.

But clearly, there&#8217;s more to the man than his &#8216;coveted&#8217; CGS job. The unremarkable tenets of Rashad&#8217;s remarkable resume feature the same-old-yet-stellar postings: GoC of an infantry division, a foreign war course, chief of staff, etc. But there are two standout jobs that underscore his run for chiefdom.

First, Brig Rashad Mahmood served as military secretary to Nawaz Sharif&#8217;s favourite president, Rafiq Tarar. On the trust-scale, this weighs him above the others and especially his senior, Haroon Aslam, who was also a brigadier in 1999, but serving as director military operations in a directorate that was tasked to launch the bloodless coup that would depose Sharif in a few hours on October 12 of that year. Coupled with his Lahore command, that accounts for two safe &#8216;ins&#8217; for Rashad with the Sharifs, advertently or inadvertently.

Second, Rashad has had an excellent record at the ISI as a two-star. He is the senior-most of a select few &#8216;general-spies&#8217; that Kayani &#8211; Pakistan&#8217;s first DG-ISI to serve as COAS &#8211; has moulded in his own image to bridge the gap between Aabpara and Chaklala (even parliament and GHQ). Credited for reforming &#8211; in fact, creating &#8211; a critical cell to enhance the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence&#8217;s efforts at countering violent extremism, Rashad is a living intel legend, hailed from Pindi to the Pentagon. Thus, though he was not conducting airborne assaults in Peochar (like Haroon) or firing his Glock empty from helicopters like Tariq (in Operation Zalzala), he was the brains behind the brawn. That&#8217;s big.

But is it big enough? Is Rashad Mahmood&#8217;s well-constructed Infantryman/ Baluchi/MS/COS/Foreign Course/GoC/Spy Legend/Corps Commander/CGS CV going to work in his favour as October will absorb Haroon &#8211; the official number one &#8211; as CJCSC, leaving him to be deftly appointed COAS in November, by default and design? Or is the chief really that predictable and all this is smoke and mirrors? Is Nawaz Sharif going to get cornered into a &#8216;meritorious decision&#8217; which has been expertly calibrated as Kayani&#8217;s own? Are the &#8216;family-friend&#8217; ties of another contender with the Sharifs going to create a new matrix? Is the &#8216;anti-Indianess&#8217; of yet another candidate going to come into play? 

What about the warm &#8216;operational contacts&#8217; of at least three contenders with the Americans? What about the immense &#8216;political power&#8217; that one of the more junior men holds? And who can predict the unwritten rule that after a gunner in Musharraf, and an infantryman in Kayani, it&#8217;s now a cavalryman&#8217;s turn? The codes of the chief&#8217;s matrix are complex, but there is only one challenge for any soldier: the army must remain united.

AsianAge

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## farhan_9909

Lt Gen Raheel sharif






Lt Gen rashad Mahmood





Lt Gen Haroon Aslam





And the one i want to win

Lt Gen Tariq Khan

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## Rafi

TK chances have just improved, he has a serious chance now, of becoming the new COAS.


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## Fist_of_God

Rafi said:


> TK chances have just improved, he has a serious chance now, of becoming the new COAS.



Lt. Gen Tariq Khan ??


how ?


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## Zarvan

Rafi said:


> TK chances have just improved, he has a serious chance now, of becoming the new COAS.


NO Sir I think it would be Haroon Aslam because now Nawaz will not go for any junior even if he is only few months junior Sir


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## Saleem

One year extension in COAS Kayani's service proposed - Video Dailymotion


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## tuxmp5

Lt Gen rashad Mahmood looks dope.


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## Saleem

Actually I think now it might be nawaz himself......he is defence minister, finance minister etc etc....like zulfiqat appointed himself martial law adminsitrator so why cant the amir ul fasiqeen....

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## SBD-3

JSCC names forwarded to PM. Gen Haroon Aslam, Asif Sandhila and Tahir Butt contending for the post (Geo News)


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## fatman17

they are saying now that Gen (retd) kayani will become member of NSC.
Lt.Gen Haroon Aslam to take over from Gen. Wynne
Lt.Gen Tariq Khan would get the coveted CoAS post.

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## Jango

Haroon Aslam and Tariq Khan for COAS position...seems right.

Let the CJCSC post got o either PAF or Navy.


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## Saleem

Appointment of CJCSC: Summary sent to PM Nawaz - thenews.com.pk


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## Saleem

Aaj with Reham Khan (Who Will Be Next Army Chief??) &#8211; 3rd October 2013


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## TaimiKhan

As said, Kiyani is in no mood to see Gen Aslam become COAS. He has been pushing that agenda for a long time, he had been planning this for quiet sometime. He wants Gen Rashid to get the seat. 

With nomination of Gen Aslam for the CJCSC, and hopefully with American pressure or order when Nawaz was in US, Aslam may get the seat and then it will be seen who becomes COAS.

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## Farah Sohail

TaimiKhan said:


> *As said, Kiyani is in no mood to see Gen Aslam become COAS. *He has been pushing that agenda for a long time, he had been planning this for quiet sometime. He wants Gen Rashid to get the seat.
> 
> With nomination of Gen Aslam for the CJCSC, and hopefully with American pressure or order when Nawaz was in US, Aslam may get the seat and then it will be seen who becomes COAS.



Why? What does Kiyani have...against Gen Haroon? Also..its strange tht Gen Haroon was postd as CLS after such a high profile career in army...... Gen Haroon must have been promoted to Lt Gen by Kayani himself and then was posted as Corps Comm Bahawalpur by Kayani earlier... Then wht happened all of a sudden tht he was made CLS and now doesnt want to see as COAS at all? Why this sudden change in attitude?



TaimiKhan said:


> As said, Kiyani is in no mood to see Gen Aslam become COAS. He has been pushing that agenda for a long time, he had been planning this for quiet sometime. He wants Gen Rashid to get the seat.
> 
> With nomination of Gen Aslam for the CJCSC, and *hopefully with American pressure or order when Nawaz was in US, Aslam may get the seat *and then it will be seen who becomes COAS.



Why? Is Gen Haroon pro US, tht Americans would order/want Nawaz to get him to be CJCSC? Bt earlier u said tht its Gen Tariq khan who is more Pro US?


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## TaimiKhan

Farah Sohail said:


> Why? What does Kiyani have...against Gen Haroon? Also..its strange tht Gen Haroon was postd as CLS after such a high profile career in army...... Gen Haroon must have been promoted to Lt Gen by Kayani himself and then was posted as Corps Comm Bahawalpur by Kayani earlier... Then wht happened all of a sudden tht he was made CLS and now doesnt want to see as COAS at all? Why this sudden change in attitude?
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Is Gen Haroon pro US, tht Americans would order/want Nawaz to get him to be CJCSC? Bt earlier u said tht its Gen Tariq khan who is more Pro US?



Gen Aslam was deliberately posted as CLS, Kiyani especially kept that post vacant for quiet sometime so that once Gen Aslam completes his tenure as Corps Commander, Kiyani would sideline him from the main stream by sending him to that less important CLS post. I don't know much of the inner things in detail, but major difference between the two is thinking on certain factors which are currently happening. Gen haroon does not wants to follow the steps which Kiyani had been doing since last 3 years, he wanna take a different approach which is not what Kiyani followed after being ordered by the US. Gen Aslam is one of the most competent officers currently serving, he is a thorough gentleman, with good moral / ethical personality. Gen Rashid is somewhat loose on the moral side, just like how Musharaf used to be. I hope you know what i am talking about.

One of the things which may cost Gen Haroon the COAS seat is his not so pro-american approach. That is why he may be made the CJCSC, thus he will get a useless / ceremonial post which will give him no power to change things or head the Pak Army. 

No COAS will be made who doesn't mostly tows the line which the USofA wants him to tow.

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## Armstrong

TaimiKhan said:


> Gen Aslam was deliberately posted as CLS, Kiyani especially kept that post vacant for quiet sometime so that once Gen Aslam completes his tenure as Corps Commander, Kiyani would sideline him from the main stream by sending him to that less important CLS post. I don't know much of the inner things in detail, but major difference between the two is thinking on certain factors which are currently happening. Gen haroon does not wants to follow the steps which Kiyani had been doing since last 3 years, he wanna take a different approach which is not what Kiyani followed after being ordered by the US. Gen Aslam is one of the most competent officers currently serving, he is a thorough gentleman, with good moral / ethical personality. Gen Rashid is somewhat loose on the moral side, just like how Musharaf used to be. I hope you know what i am talking about.
> 
> One of the things which may cost Gen Haroon the COAS seat is his not so pro-american approach. That is why he may be made the CJCSC, thus he will get a useless / ceremonial post which will give him no power to change things or head the Pak Army.
> 
> No COAS will be made who doesn't mostly tows the line which the USofA wants him to tow.



Wrrora forget about the morals what matters is whether the COAS would be the right man for Pakistan or not ! 

I hope that Lt.Gen Tariq Khan gets the COAS Job - He seems like a soldier's General !


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## Farah Sohail

Armstrong said:


> Wrrora forget about the morals what matters is whether the COAS would be the right man for Pakistan or not !
> 
> I hope that Lt.Gen Tariq Khan gets the COAS Job - He seems like a soldier's General !



I think morals are equally important along with his professional competence..Your strong/weak morals influence your overall personality and decision making. We have had bad experiences with COAS who had loose moral characters in war..(case in point.....Gen Yahya khan...in particular)



TaimiKhan said:


> Gen Aslam was deliberately posted as CLS, Kiyani especially kept that post vacant for quiet sometime so that once Gen Aslam completes his tenure as Corps Commander, Kiyani would sideline him from the main stream by sending him to that less important CLS post. I don't know much of the inner things in detail, but major difference between the two is thinking on certain factors which are currently happening. Gen haroon does not wants to follow the steps which Kiyani had been doing since last 3 years, he wanna take a different approach which is not what Kiyani followed after being ordered by the US. Gen Aslam is one of the most competent officers currently serving, he is a thorough gentleman, with good moral / ethical personality. Gen Rashid is somewhat loose on the moral side, just like how Musharaf used to be. I hope you know what i am talking about.
> 
> *One of the things which may cost Gen Haroon the COAS seat is his not so pro-american approach*. That is why he may be made the CJCSC, thus he will get a useless / ceremonial post which will give him no power to change things or head the Pak Army.
> 
> No COAS will be made who doesn't mostly tows the line which the USofA wants him to tow.



@bold.. Lets all hope and pray tht Gen Haroon gets post of COAS...particularly because of this......Being not pro US is very much needed in future COAS.. Lets hope for a miracle

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## TaimiKhan

Armstrong said:


> Wrrora forget about the morals what matters is whether the COAS would be the right man for Pakistan or not !
> 
> I hope that Lt.Gen Tariq Khan gets the COAS Job - He seems like a soldier's General !



They all are a soldier's general till they are a Lt gen, but once they become COAS, its a totally different general. 

Our bad luck is, that in majority of cases and especially in times like today, the US selects our COAS.

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## truthseeker2010

TaimiKhan said:


> Gen Aslam was deliberately posted as CLS, Kiyani especially kept that post vacant for quiet sometime so that once Gen Aslam completes his tenure as Corps Commander, Kiyani would sideline him from the main stream by sending him to that less important CLS post. I don't know much of the inner things in detail, but major difference between the two is thinking on certain factors which are currently happening. Gen haroon does not wants to follow the steps which Kiyani had been doing since last 3 years, he wanna take a different approach which is not what Kiyani followed after being ordered by the US. Gen Aslam is one of the most competent officers currently serving, he is a thorough gentleman, with good moral / ethical personality. Gen Rashid is somewhat loose on the moral side, just like how Musharaf used to be. I hope you know what i am talking about.
> 
> One of the things which may cost Gen Haroon the COAS seat is his not so pro-american approach. That is why he may be made the CJCSC, thus he will get a useless / ceremonial post which will give him no power to change things or head the Pak Army.
> 
> No COAS will be made who doesn't mostly tows the line which the USofA wants him to tow.



Which means pak army and the country as a whole will continue to suffer.... and it will be nawaz and bosses in Washington running the show.... May god help Pakistan


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## TaimiKhan

truthseeker2010 said:


> Which means pak army and the country as a whole will continue to suffer.... and it will be nawaz and bosses in Washington running the show.... May god help Pakistan



Latest IMF deals and the bombs of electricity and fuel prices are an indication to that.


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## truthseeker2010

TaimiKhan said:


> They all are a soldier's general till they are a Lt gen, but once they become COAS, its a totally different general.
> 
> Our bad luck is, that in majority of cases and especially in times like today, *the US selects our COAS*.



This is our biggest misfortune. Sir how and why do army accepts these decisions..... and doesn't this gave hostile feeling to the junior ranks.... and most important of all isn't this an indicator of merit in promotions in army?


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## Armstrong

TaimiKhan said:


> They all are a soldier's general till they are a Lt gen, but once they become COAS, its a totally different general.
> 
> Our bad luck is, that in majority of cases and especially in times like today, *the US selects our COAS*.



But wrrora, I can understand that the Army is built around the concept of 'discipline' but if that were true how can the Corp Commanders & other Generals of note within the Army not exert back keh bhai yeh kiyaaa Amreekiyoon kaaa Pitthooo COAS lagaaa diyaaa haiii ?



Farah Sohail said:


> I think morals are equally important along with his professional competence..Your strong/weak morals influence your overall personality and decision making. We have had bad experiences with COAS who had loose moral characters in war..(case in point.....Gen Yahya khan...in particular)



As long as he puts Pakistan before anything else - I couldn't care less if he drinks himself to sleep every evening !


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## truthseeker2010

TaimiKhan said:


> Latest IMF deals and the bombs of electricity and fuel prices are an indication to that.



I believe in one thing..... this will not continue for long .... they have done this... but now they will have to deliver in someway which benefits the common man..... otherwise I have a feeling that Nawaz will not complete his term...because now people are being pushed to their limits.... and the last thing to expect from them would be..... Democracy go to HELL!!


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## That Guy

Well, according to PDF Gen. Haroon Aslam is going to become the next COAS. Now we wait and see.


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## TaimiKhan

truthseeker2010 said:


> This is our biggest misfortune. Sir how and why do army accepts these decisions..... and doesn't this gave hostile feeling to the junior ranks.... and most important of all isn't this an indicator of merit in promotions in army?





Armstrong said:


> But wrrora, I can understand that the Army is built around the concept of 'discipline' but if that were true how can the Corp Commanders & other Generals of note within the Army not exert back keh bhai yeh kiyaaa Amreekiyoon kaaa Pitthooo COAS lagaaa diyaaa haiii ?
> 
> 
> 
> As long as he puts Pakistan before anything else - I couldn't care less if he drinks himself to sleep every evening !



If the lower ranks / generals do a revolt or something like that, it will break down the system / discipline will go down the drain and it will be chaos, complete breakdown of the machinery. Thus they keep on following, plus they won't loose their benefits in case they are caught doing any conspiracy.

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## Armstrong

@Xeric - Huzzzoor what about your opinion about all of this ?

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## Farah Sohail

That Guy said:


> *Well, according to PDF Gen. Haroon Aslam is going to become the next COAS.* Now we wait and see.



Where? Who said this?


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## Xeric

Armstrong said:


> @Xeric - Huzzzoor what about your opinion about all of this ?


Actually we dont care. There is functional political govt, it's there prerogative, i am sure they will chose the right man. i personally think that the appointment would on the basis of seniority.

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## Pakistani E

General Pervez Musharraf.  Now and Always.


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## That Guy

Farah Sohail said:


> Where? Who said this?



Look at the poll, Gen Aslam has 46% of the votes, the largest portion.


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## Alpha1

TaimiKhan said:


> If the lower ranks / generals do a revolt or something like that, it will break down the system / discipline will go down the drain and it will be chaos, complete breakdown of the machinery. Thus they keep on following, plus they won't loose their benefits in case they are caught doing any conspiracy.


For What I have heard and Saw is that the Command chain is so good a coup led by a junior General is virtualy impossible within the Army!


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## Alpha1

I sincerely hope General Tariq Khan gets the Job!


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## Bratva

8th october is crucial . On this day, Name of COAS and Joint chief of staff will be simultaneously announced by Prime minister


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## Bratva

TaimiKhan said:


> As said, Kiyani is in no mood to see Gen Aslam become COAS. He has been pushing that agenda for a long time, he had been planning this for quiet sometime. He wants Gen Rashid to get the seat.
> 
> With nomination of Gen Aslam for the CJCSC, and hopefully with American pressure or order when Nawaz was in US, Aslam may get the seat and then it will be seen who becomes COAS.





TaimiKhan said:


> Gen Aslam was deliberately posted as CLS, Kiyani especially kept that post vacant for quiet sometime so that once Gen Aslam completes his tenure as Corps Commander, Kiyani would sideline him from the main stream by sending him to that less important CLS post. I don't know much of the inner things in detail, but major difference between the two is thinking on certain factors which are currently happening. Gen haroon does not wants to follow the steps which Kiyani had been doing since last 3 years, he wanna take a different approach which is not what Kiyani followed after being ordered by the US. Gen Aslam is one of the most competent officers currently serving, he is a thorough gentleman, with good moral / ethical personality. Gen Rashid is somewhat loose on the moral side, just like how Musharaf used to be. I hope you know what i am talking about.
> 
> One of the things which may cost Gen Haroon the COAS seat is his not so pro-american approach. That is why he may be made the CJCSC, thus he will get a useless / ceremonial post which will give him no power to change things or head the Pak Army.
> 
> No COAS will be made who doesn't mostly tows the line which the USofA wants him to tow.



You are right. General Rashid has high chances of becoming COAS and your account also corroborates with media reports. 







and what Ameirca wants and the way Nawaz sharif thinking to do what America wants


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## Saleem

Xeric said:


> Actually we dont care. There is functional political govt, it's there prerogative, i am sure they will chose the right man. i personally think that the appointment would on the basis of seniority.



functional? you must be joking..the only functional thing about these bozo's is their insatiable lust for loot and and their inhuman treatment of all not of their clan. ....they came to power by rigging the elections; they amended the constitution to permit crooks to be appointed-witness the tussle over the NAM chief's appointment----they have not done one meanigful thing in 120 days----no meanignful lawas--they have sold the country to IMF diktats--see if you army types can afford dal on table let alone beef-----they seek to destroy any remaining autonomy and patriotism in the forces and bureaucracy and make them mushikhanas like their chief munshi ishaq [or should I say ashiq {of ganjas}] dar........they are enemies of pakistan and islam-----may they and their like rot in the deepest pit of hell along with pervez musharaf who put them their-----


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## Saleem

can anyone name the top three generals who were in line 3 eyars ago before kiyani got his second tenure? just trying to see who lost his chance at COAS with this action.....


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## JOEY TRIBIANI

LT.GENERAL HAROON.


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## Ark-Angel

Kayani may be retained in powerful security role after retirement &#8211; The Express Tribune

Kayani CJCSC


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## Kompromat

Ark-Angel said:


> Kayani may be retained in powerful security role after retirement &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> Kayani CJCSC



This is a bad decision.

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## genmirajborgza786

Aeronaut said:


> This is a bad decision.



I second that, if its for "joint chiefs of staff committee" ,then it should go to admiral asif sandila, the rotation of this post from the air-force & navy is extremely important for better coordination between the three services

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## batmannow

KIYANI is proving tobe a traitor ?
he is involved in turning a professinal army, into the gang of thugs working for political croupt elites just, be in power himself?
should be punished, & will be punished on the time?
pakarmy should clean this mess, before bieng treared apart & taken down BY the masters who planned the raymonds, who were secrtly assembling , a quick reaction force to suddenly take over the pak nucks?
what about that MEMOGATE?
why genrl pasha went to resign ?
its was all KIYANI,s show?
what about ABOTTABAD commision?
how can it could hve happened? wasnt KIYANI not asked?
now here its another of shot taken by NOORA LEAGUE the great saudi slaves, after genrl BUUT?
i am in a great hope, this all end up bad for this crooked person, who is selling this country, like china cutting plots of land?


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## Dazzler

I know a llittle but not much, Gen Haroon is a man of many traits and takes no nonsense (politicians dont like such types  ), i do think NS maybe thinking to maintain Kiyani for this reason alone provided Kiyani complies but seems unlikely. 

Haroon is a popular choice in military circles with good credentials.


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## batmannow

Dazzler said:


> I know a llittle but not much, Gen Haroon is a man of many traits and takes no nonsense (politicians dont like such types  ), i do think NS maybe thinking to maintain Kiyani for this reason alone provided Kiyani complies but seems unlikely.
> 
> Haroon is a popular choice in military circles with good credentials.


when it comes to decesion by NOORA ,he will never give the charge to guys like HAROON shb or TARIQ shb?
his choice would be KIYANI , cause he knows this is a crook, worked with the most crouptest of political presidents , yes zardari?
all that, 5 years of continues destruction was done , in front of him? didnt spoke a single word against it?
cause was the partner in crime, yes a sleeping partner!
just like CJ chodri monte carlo conection?


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## Farah Sohail

Dazzler said:


> I know a llittle but not much, Gen Haroon is a man of many traits and takes no nonsense (politicians dont like such types  ), i do think NS maybe thinking to maintain Kiyani for this reason alone provided Kiyani complies but seems unlikely.
> 
> *Haroon is a popular choice in military circles with good credentials.*



@bold....But Taimi Khan says tht Gen Kiyani doesnt want to see Gen Haroon as COAS at all...so he is lobbying hard for Gen Rashid Mahmood as COAS..


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## Sugarcane

Ark-Angel said:


> Kayani may be retained in powerful security role after retirement &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> Kayani CJCSC



It looks like Kayani will leave office only when people will start calling him dog like Yahyah Khan - Most meesna & tc general we ever had.


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## batmannow

LoveIcon said:


> It looks like Kayani will leave office only when people will start calling him dog like Yahyah Khan - Most meesna & tc general we ever had.



his fate will be decided jst wait the next man in , friend right now he is the most hated person in PA?
he is trying to get hold, by indirectly involving US adminstration, to be his insurance after his retirment, through ganjaa brothers?
but in the end, once out of uniform, he will recive his gift of traitory?

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## genmirajborgza786

just in

news coming in, that gen Rashid mahmood, is most likely to be the new army chief

*Gen Rashid likely to be new army chief*

October 05, 2013 

ISLAMABAD - Consultations have been completed to choose Kayanis successor as the government will not wait for November 28, the day when incumbent Chief of Army Staff is going to retire.

The decision will come in the coming week, much earlier than Kayanis retirement date, a senior official of Prime Minister Secretariat told The Nation on Friday. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif plans will name the successor of General Kayani weeks before the incumbents extended six-year term expires in November, sources revealed. The move is aimed at quashing the ongoing guessing game about the next chief of army staff and ensuring a smooth changeover at a time when the military is fighting militants on many fronts.

In prior two appointments - Gen Waheed Kakar in 1993 and Gen Pervez Musharraf in 1998 - the Premier preferred dependability to merit. However, close aides of the Premier said there is a growing realisation on part of the PM that he made a mistake in ignoring merit when he made the decisive appointments. Now, the Premier has taken a stance that he will make a decision purely on merit and will keep seniority in mind when appointing a new army chief. If the principle of seniority is strictly adhered to, then after the retirement of Gen Kayani, Gen Haroon Aslam is likely to become chairman joint chiefs of staff committee, and next most senior general - Gen Rashid Mahmood - may be new army chief.

Known as a diehard Rajput and a typical Lahoria who has an illustrious penchant for spicy Lahori cuisine, Lt Gen Rashid Mahmood got commission in Pakistan Army in 1979 and belongs to 7 Baloch Regiment. Interestingly the incumbent COAS Gen Kiyani belongs to 5-Baloch Regiment. Gen Rashid Mahmood has served as Military Secretary to former President Rafique Tarar in 1999 at the time when former dictator Pervez Musharaf imposed martial law in the country. He passed staff college from US with flying colours. Gen Rashid also served in ISI as DG (P). He also served as General Officer Commanding (GOC) and Corps Commander Lahore almost for five years in both positions. During this period, he managed good relations with Sharifs.

Gen Kayani, who was appointed as the army chief by former military ruler Gen Pervez Musharraf in 2007, has already availed a three-year extension granted by then Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani in 2010. He is now expected to retire on November 28. Some funnily ridiculous reports naively suggest that General Kayani would be made Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee on his retirement. These reports have conveniently forgotten that General Kayani retires on November 28 while CJCSC retires on October 7 and his replacement would be made in the ongoing week.

A PML-N senior leader who is very close to the Prime Minister, however, said that the decision would be taken at an appropriate time and refused to share any decision in this regard.

Pakistan Peoples Party Parliamentarians (PPPP) had the chance to appoint a new army chief in November 2010 but it extended the tenure of the Gen Kayani. Reuters adds: General Ashfaq Kayani is likely to stay head of the military with a new title when he steps down as army chief next month, government and security sources said, taking over some of the duties of his successor.

Sources and aides close to Kayani said Sharif wanted to make him head of a revamped and more powerful Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (JCSC). One senior intelligence official said Sharif planned to overhaul the JCSC, a largely ceremonial office, into a central defence body by restoring its command over the entire military establishment and giving it additional powers. The new JCSC chief will be in charge of the nuclear arsenal. Hell decide on action against terrorists, said the source, adding that new powers included the right to promote, post and transfer key military officers.

Basically, the JCSC office will be what it was always supposed to be. The overall boss. Military officials did not return repeated calls seeking comment. The governments spokesman said he also could not comment until an official announcement on Monday when the current JCSC chief is due to step down. The JCSC chairmanship is the most likely option for Kayani, said a close Sharif aide. Hes an expert on the Pakistani insurgency. He understands the war in Afghanistan.

Gen Rashid likely to be new army chief

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## genmirajborgza786

For news details visit : http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-n.../editorials/02-Oct-2013/rumours-in-the-capita

For news details Read on : 

*Rumours in the capital *



*Lieutenant General Haroon Aslam *and Lieutenant* General Rashid Mahmood *have been reported as almost the final candidates, that will fill the upcoming vacancies after the retirement of Chairman Joint Staff Committee General Khalid Sharmeen Wynne and Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani respectively. Although it has not been confirmed officially, these two names remain in the air as the talks for the next CJSC and COAS commence in the capital. The announcement is to be made by Premier Nawaz Sharif upon returning from the United Nations General Assembly.

Rumours and analyses emanating from journalists, military analysts and politicians remain abundant speculation, but the Premier has yet to declare a decision for either position. Considering how these two roles are the most influential card players in Pakistans domestic and foreign policy, it is an issue replete with dramatic turns and twists that yields  historically  unexpected changes.

Statements issued by the Federal Information Minister are ambiguous at best. This newspaper was informed that the Premier will announce the changes upon his arrival which is due in the next few days. It was contradicted by the ministry when it expressed ignorance about any such development. This growing confusion involving the most coveted military slots in Pakistan carries risk for the security situation of the country for several reasons. With 2014 around the corner and an imminent American military withdrawal from Afghanistan, Pakistan cannot afford ambiguity in its stance about its highest military rankings. Furthermore, with growing hostility from extremists and relentless episodic attacks on citizens that have led to dozens of lives lost in the past two weeks alone, the government would instill stability by giving a clear statement in the upcoming days in relation to the new CJCSC and COAS. Hopefully the decision will be in line with the order of seniority, and any adventurism will be avoided.


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## genmirajborgza786

Haroon, Rashad 

*Haroon, Rashad final probables for CJCSC, COAS *

ISLAMABAD - The two top generals who are the probables for the most coveted military slots stay very much in the game, with the premier scheduled to make a related announcement sometime soon after landing in Pakistan upon completing his important visit to the United States.

Lieutenant General Haroon Aslam and Lt-Gen Rashad Mahmood are the respective candidates for filling in the upcoming vacancies following the retirement of Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Khalid Shameem Wynne and Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani on October 7 and November 28.

According to official sources, the Prime Minister Secretariat recently returned a summary moved by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) on the CJCSC appointment, on the grounds that certain official procedures were not followed. This reportedly happened shortly before the PM Nawaz Sharif had left for his US visit. 

A fresh summary containing the names of Lt-Gen Haroon Aslam, Lt-Gen Rashad Mehmood and Lt-Gen Raheel Sharif has been moved to the PM Secretariat, a senior government functionary, requesting anonymity, shared with The Nation. The summary would be put up before the PM for his signature to have the new CJCSC appointed, shortly after his landing in Pakistan, the official said.

The PM spokesman and federal information minister, Senator Pervaiz Rashid expressed ignorance about the issue, saying the things would come out clear in the coming days. I dont know if any such development has taken place. I need to look into the issue before making a statement on an important official matter, he said, when approached and asked about the reported return of the MoD summary by the PM Secretariat. Everything would be clear in the coming days. All we need to do is stop speculating and be patient, he remarked.

An internal announcement within the relevant military circles regarding the elevation of General Haroon Aslam, presently the Chief of Logistics Staff, as the CJCSC is expected by this weekend, once the PM signs the related summary. Moreover, the government reportedly would announce the name of General Rashad Mahmood, the incumbent Chief of General Staff (CGS), as the next COAS in the days to follow.

Raheel Sharif, who holds the portfolio of Inspector General, Training and Evaluation (IG T&E), can be appointed as Vice Chief of Army Staff (VCAS) if government is to go by the book and accommodate all the three generals. The VCAS position, which contains the appointment of a four-star general, has not been made functional since November 2007 when the then VCAS General Ashfaq Kayani was elevated to the COAS rank by the outgoing Army Chief General Parvez Musharraf.

Being one of the most-hyped issues these days, the appointment of the new COAS and CJCSC has been marked with reported twists and turns. While the defence pundits, journalists and politicians float different names for the two positions, the final word has yet to come from the PM who has kept his cards close to his chest.

Regarded as a close confidante of General Kayani, Lt-Gen Rashad Mehmood would become second senior-most general in Pakistan Army after Haroon Aslam once Ashfaq Kayani and Khalid Shameem reached the retirement age.

This, according to a retired general, makes Mehmood the strongest probable for the COAS position. I think Nawaz Sharif would avoid adventurism. Hes learnt from past and I dont think there would be any superseding this time. Going by the book and accommodating the top generals sounds to me a very convenient option.

In terms of seniority, Rashad Mehmood is followed by Raheel Sharif, Tariq Khan (Corps Commander Mangla) and Zaheerul Islam Abbasi (Director General Inter Services Intelligence).

Vis-à-vis the CJCSC appointment, the name of Naval Chief Admiral Asif Sandila was doing rounds in the privy circles till recently. However, a credible military insider does not give much credence to this piece of information. The government may have considered his (Sandilas) name but ground realities do not support the occurrence of any such possibility, he commented on Monday.

The positions of CJCSC and the four services chiefs have equivalent ranks and statuses, the military official said. Although, the CJCSC has an edge over the three services chiefs in terms of organisational protocol, all these positions have equal status but a service chief would not be interested in accepting an equivalent post that has more of a ceremonial role and that is quite less powerful and lucrative compared to heading an armed force. Till 2001, Parvez Musharraf had remained CJCSC for three years while heading the military as COAS at the same time.

Since then, the army generals Aziz Khan, Ehsanul Haq, Tariq Majeed, and Khalid Shahmeem Wynne each saw three-year appointments for the said post. The CJCSC-ship had last gone outside Pakistan Army in 1997 with the elevation of Air Marshal Farooq Feroz Khan as Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee.

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## fatman17

*Top Military Promotions*

&#8226;Army chief General Ashfaq Kayani met with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Friday to discuss the appointment of the next Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee. The current occupant of the office, General Khalid Shameen Wynne will retire on Saturday.[5]

&#8226;According to a Friday Reuters report, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is considering keeping army chief General Ashfaq Kayani in a major role after he leaves his current position next month. The most likely destination for Kayani, according to the report, is to be the head of a traditionally-ceremonial but newly-empowered Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, a position that will become vacant within the next few days.[6]


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## Farah Sohail

Jasmeen Manzoor on twitter confidently says Gen Rashid to be the new COAS.. Infact she even congratulated him on twitter...dont know how confirmed this news is..?


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## Sugarcane

Farah Sohail said:


> Jasmeen Manzoor on twitter confidently says Gen Rashid to be the new COAS.. Infact she even congratulated him on twitter...dont know how confirmed this news is..?



So, Ganja is not gonna stick to his stand of most senior person?


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## batmannow

Farah Sohail said:


> Jasmeen Manzoor on twitter confidently says Gen Rashid to be the new COAS.. Infact she even congratulated him on twitter...dont know how confirmed this news is..?



typical noora thinking, but lets congrate him any way?
thts what he thought is the best?lolzzz



LoveIcon said:


> So, Ganja is not gonna stick to his stand of most senior person?



sorty but a lahori conection what thought?lolzzz


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## SBD-3

LoveIcon said:


> So, Ganja is not gonna stick to his stand of most senior person?


Gen Haroon Aslam will be made the CJCSC. The command will be converted from ceremonial role to effectively the command centre of all three forces (CDS- Chief of Defence Staff). Gen Rashid is poised to become the new COAS. Interestingly, the retirement date of both the generals is same both will be retiring next year. Even the most junior general (DG ISI) only has two years of service left ahead.


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## Kompromat




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## arushbhai

Is he a power hungry chief like musharaf?


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## Zarvan

Lt General Haroon Aslam


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## nomi007




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## Zarvan




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## nomi007

i believe PM will not select ssg comando


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## ice_man

I hope this time he just chooses the senior most! & his hand is not forced by external powers to choose a Chief!


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## Sedqal

I just read Tariq Khan thrashed police officers in Quetta way back in 78 for some perceived dishonor (of course since mockery of law is a prized commodity in PA. this stunt actually made him popular). I can' tell you how absolutely disgusting this is for me and I now give Gen Tariq a (-3) too. Sane choice is Raheel Shariff:

>PHOTOGRAPHS: Lieutenant General Tariq Khan-A Soldier of Substance (Link to story).


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## Sedqal

Haroon Aslam is supposed to retire in a couple of months, if he is made the COAS will he get an extension after a few months or would becoming COAS means he will get 2 or 3 years of service more?


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## Zarvan

Sedqal said:


> Haroon Aslam is supposed to retire in a couple of months, if he is made the COAS will he get an extension after a few months or would becoming COAS means he will get 2 or 3 years of service more?


Yes he will get 3 more years

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## araz

Guys and MODS we have several threads open on various topics. *Its sabzi mandi environment here*. Why cant we have some order and amalgamate these threads into one. Similarly we have multiple threads on death of Indian scientist, and the indian upgraded M2Ks. Could someone please declutter these threads.


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## Farah Sohail

Ok... now Shireen Mazari on twitter says tht some Western diplomats in Islamabd, claiming tht they already know who will be the next COAS

Ahmed Quraishi &#8207;@AQpk 

Strongly hope PM #NawazSharif will refrain from playing games around issue of appointing new #Pakistan Army chief. Sincerely hope so.

Shireen Mazari &#8207;@ShireenMazari1 

@AQpk Too late! Game already on! More shameful some Western envoys in Isl telling media they already know who is going to be the new COAS!


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## Panther 57

I think General Haroon and Gen Tariq gives a feeling for bold Commanders A leader who leads from front.


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## Strongman

Had this commando been a real commando he would not have been sitting in ERRA and as CLS, i would certainly think that he is not the chief's choice because of his current post, it is an indicator! Isnt it? Relax guys! The peochar operation has also been milked for more than its money's worth. Take it easy he aint coming!!


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## asad71

1.Supposing NS follows Hasina or Bush Jr in bringing out some one from the retired lot? For instance Hasina had appointed Mustafiz as BA Chief bringing him in from LPR. The US Army had a Chief brought back from retirement.

2. In that case Gen Zia could be re-installed as PA Chief. Or he could be given the task to organize a Pentagon type of armed forces HQ. Obviously NS would be negative to anyone who had been favored by Mush.


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## Zarvan




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## Strongman

Lt. General Khan is reputed in the army circles as blunt and rash, which has some truth, but he also is a man of action and knows his enemies well. He seems to be a pragmatic choice to head a fighting army over other choices that may have been acceptable in a peacetime transition. Being a soldier to the core, he may assert in military strategy and operational matters but is likely to keep away from politics. Besides, if chosen, he will leave behind his legacy by choosing bright officers in the armys top hierarchy.

It was Lt. General Khan who convinced the GHQ, Headquarters 11 Corps and Governor House KP to allow the newly elected ANP leadership to try out the option of dialogue with the Malakand Division Taliban. He already had conveyed that the dialogue would never succeed but let the newly elected ANP government get a moral victory and also show the real face of the terrorists to the public, who were still in doubt about the real motives of the Taliban. History proved that it was the best decision of the then political leadership of KP. Then during the conduct of military operations in Swat, Bajaur, South Waziristan, Dir, Buner , Mohmand, Orakzai, Kurram and Hangu district, he proved to be the binding factor among the Governor House KP, CM House KP, Headquarters 11 Corps, Police and Frontier Constabulary.


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## Strongman

Keeping the present situation in mind the best option is to promote the general from KP/FATA, which is the centre of Taliban activities and from where most of their activities are generated throughout the length and breadth of the country. Lt general Tariq Khan!!!!

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## truthseeker2010

How about Haroon Aslam as CJCSC and Tariq Khan as COAS...........Killer combination!!!!....... but i know that won't happen...

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## Leader

Tariq Khan thek hai, clean shave hai... baki tou daronay hi bohat hain


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## Strongman

*Lt. General Khan has delivered in counter-insurgency operations as General Officer Commanding, 14 Division in Wana (South Waziristan) and has served as Inspector General Frontier Constabulary (IGFC) in KP until 2010. As such, he has an active, first-hand command and combat engagement history with the Taliban for at least six years. Being a local, he fully understands the dynamics of the insurgency areas, local culture and the psyche of the so-called Taliban. Whether fighting them out or bringing them to the table for a peace deal, he could be a better option. He is currently heading Pakistans Strike Corps, i.e. Mangla, which also gives him the added advantage to deal with the threat from the eastern borders.


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## Leader

p.s.



waise Amreeka say order aye ga tabhi COAS lagay ga naya !! 



asad71 said:


> 1.Supposing NS follows Hasina or Bush Jr in bringing out some one from the retired lot? For instance Hasina had appointed Mustafiz as BA Chief bringing him in from LPR. The US Army had a Chief brought back from retirement.
> 
> 2. In that case Gen Zia could be re-installed as PA Chief. Or he could be given the task to organize a Pentagon type of armed forces HQ. Obviously NS would be negative to anyone who had been favored by Mush.



fixing the past, it might be General Zia ul deen butt


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## Strongman

Lieutenant General Tariq Khan is from 55th PMA course and commissioned in April 1977. He was best cadet winning coveted Sword of Honor. He is currently commanding Mangla based I strike corps. He is a Pushtun cavalry officer and his father was also a cavalry officer. Tariq is from an aristocratic family and from the breed that didn&#8217;t join army for a secure job. After a brief stint of commanding an armored division, he first commanded infantry division in Waziristan and later as Inspector General Frontier Corps (IGFC) transformed a shattered FC. In my view, he is the only officer among the contenders who has the qualifications for leading the army in the coming turbulent three years. He is head and shoulders above his peers. His straight forward and professional approach is sometimes construed as &#8216;hard headed&#8217;. He has earned the nick name of &#8216;bulldozer&#8217; for nothing. I don&#8217;t know any other officer who has so much red ink in his file and that he made it so far is only due to his professional competence which even his detractors admit. He was one of only two major generals highly regarded by Kayani for their professional competence (the other being Ahmad Shuja Pasha).

Some label him as &#8216;rash&#8217; and &#8216;pro-American&#8217;. I can understand why some label him as &#8216;rash&#8217;. Tariq is frank to the point of bluntness and not hesitant to speak his mind which invariably results in some friction. He is a hard task master and in operations, he took decisions and many times clashed with his seniors while as Corps Commander he is training his formation hard. In time of war, I&#8217;ll pick a so-called &#8216;rash&#8217; officer anytime compared to someone who was busy opening restaurants and bakeries in cantonment or planning for expansion of defense housing schemes. Some consider Tariq as &#8216;pro-American&#8217; and I think this is due to his views about militancy. He was one of the few senior officers who comprehended right from the beginning that menace of militancy is an existential threat to Pakistan. It took several years for General Head Quarters (GHQ) to get this point. He was at the forefront of many operations against militants. He commanded an infantry division in South Waziristan and later as IGFC, he transformed a demoralized and broken formation into a credible fighting force. U.S. provided funds for FC modernization and a handful of U.S. Special Forces soldiers provided limited training in some special skills. This very limited interaction is exaggerated due to lack of information. In the last ten years, in addition to FC, Washington also supported intelligence agencies in technical matters as well as Pakistan&#8217;s Special Forces. In view of deteriorating relations in the last two years, most of these relations have been terminated.


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## Alphacharlie

*After all I have real of Gen Tariq Khan..I respect him
SheR Ka Bachha.

He should be the next COAS.*


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## junaid1

Next Army chief must be from Army .

*Lt.Gen Rashid*


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## nomi007

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&#65239;&#65166;&#65163;&#65250; &#64400;&#64509;




he is commando and today is 12 oct


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## smarthief

COAS should be the appointed on the senority basis ... not on favourtism


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## airomerix

^That would be the day.


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## Panther 57

smarthief said:


> COAS should be the appointed on the senority basis ... not on favourtism



Dodh ka jala chach bhi phunk phunk kay pita hai. Once bitten twice shy.


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## smarthief

Panther 57 said:


> Dodh ka jala chach bhi phunk phunk kay pita hai. Once bitten twice shy.



Par re elect bhi to kiya hain na hum nay PM kyun teesri baar .... ghaltiyaan to hoti rehti hain humaray haan baar baar

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## Sedqal

Panther 57 said:


> Dodh ka jala chach bhi phunk phunk kay pita hai. Once bitten twice shy.



Precisely why we worry about further adventurism by PA. We have been bitten some 4 times already


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## Panther 57

Sedqal said:


> Precisely why we worry about further adventurism by PA. We have been bitten some 4 times already



Agar Insan Kay Bachay Banain to kor dar nahi rahay ga. Aur puranay kartoon rahay (jo kay hain) to har waqt rahay ga. @smarthief


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## Sedqal

Panther 57 said:


> Agar Insan Kay Bachay Banain to kor dar nahi rahay ga. Aur puranay kartoon rahay (jo kay hain) to har waqt rahay ga.
> @smarthief



It always was a fight for power, buray kartoot for PA is when politicians dare to make decisions on their own (exactly what they have been elected for). Anyway there is no one in Pakistani history having worse kartoot then Yahya Khan and he was given a burial with full army protocol 

Its also funny when its Army which decides who is 'insaan ka bacha' bloody civilians are yet too stupid to elect the right person to power. How do you feel about Jinnah by the way, was he up to mark by PA standards?

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## TaimiKhan

After the trip to USofA by Mr.Nawaz Sharif, we will know who the future chief is. He will be taking the decision for the future chief from the US. 

Pathetic.


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## genmirajborgza786

TaimiKhan said:


> After the trip to USofA by Mr.Nawaz Sharif, we will know who the future chief is. He will be taking the decision for the future chief from the US.
> 
> Pathetic.



chief will this increase the chance for Lt. gen Tariq khan or Lt. gen Raheel shareef ?


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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

Sedqal said:


> It always was a fight for power, buray kartoot for PA is when politicians dare to make decisions on their own (exactly what they have been elected for). Anyway there is no one in Pakistani history having worse kartoot then Yahya Khan and he was given a burial with full army protocol
> 
> Its also funny when its Army which decides who is 'insaan ka bacha' bloody civilians are yet too stupid to elect the right person to power. How do you feel about Jinnah by the way, was he up to mark by PA standards?



kya baat kar raha haey yar tu ...  you are comparing our esteemed Jinnah  to these suCker politicians ...


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## smarthief

Panther 57 said:


> Agar Insan Kay Bachay Banain to kor dar nahi rahay ga. Aur puranay kartoon rahay (jo kay hain) to har waqt rahay ga.
> @smarthief



lekin is kay agahi mohim karni parey gei bhai ....... jahalat to yahan intehaaaa par hai


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## TaimiKhan

genmirajborgza786 said:


> chief will this increase the chance for Lt. gen Tariq khan or Lt. gen Raheel shareef ?



Chief wants his man Lt Gen Rashad, may be the US also agrees with him since they will listen to him.

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## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> Chief wants his man Lt Gen Rashad, may be the US also agrees with him since they will listen to him.



Shahbaz Sharif also lobbying for Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood.

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## Panther 57

Sedqal said:


> It always was a fight for power, buray kartoot for PA is when politicians dare to make decisions on their own (exactly what they have been elected for). Anyway there is no one in Pakistani history having worse kartoot then Yahya Khan and he was given a burial with full army protocol
> 
> Its also funny when its Army which decides who is 'insaan ka bacha' bloody civilians are yet too stupid to elect the right person to power. How do you feel about Jinnah by the way, was he up to mark by PA standards?


As long as civilians take decision in the interest of the country no one will shun them. But things change when start taking decision in the own interest at the cost of country. Benazir gets the credit of draining the efforts of over two decades by shutting down Indian desk, NS was negotiating a joint venture with General Dynamics to annul atomic test. His stupidity of hijacking the aircraft with COAS was jewel in the crown. Defacto President Rehman Malik and Traitor Hussain Haqqani allowed black waters and CIA operatives to enter the country without immigration. This what they do when they come to power and no body checks them. They were even ready to clip the wings of ISI; until the warning shots were fired. When they mess it up they want PA to clear it up. Look at Karachi Amn Committee, it is their monster and who is clearing it up. NS is ghoof enough to repeat his mistakes. He should have become wiser now after the previous debacles. But still same fanfare, protocols, PKR800,000 hotel rooms, etc, etc. @batmannow

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## Panther 57

Sedqal said:


> It always was a fight for power, buray kartoot for PA is when politicians dare to make decisions on their own (exactly what they have been elected for). Anyway there is no one in Pakistani history having worse kartoot then Yahya Khan and he was given a burial with full army protocol
> 
> Its also funny when its Army which decides who is 'insaan ka bacha' bloody civilians are yet too stupid to elect the right person to power. How do you feel about Jinnah by the way, was he up to mark by PA standards?


As long as civilians take decision in the interest of the country no one will shun them. But things change when start taking decision in the own interest at the cost of country. Benazir gets the credit of draining the efforts of over two decades by shutting down Indian desk, NS was negotiating a joint venture with General Dynamics to annul atomic test. His stupidity of hijacking the aircraft with COAS was jewel in the crown. Defacto President Rehman Malik and Traitor Hussain Haqqani allowed black waters and CIA operatives to enter the country without immigration. This what they do when they come to power and no body checks them. They were even ready to clip the wings of ISI; until the warning shots were fired. When they mess it up they want PA to clear it up. Look at Karachi Amn Committee, it is their monster and who is clearing it up. NS is ghoof enough to repeat his mistakes. He should have become wiser now after the previous debacles. But still same fanfare, protocols, PKR800,000 hotel rooms, etc, etc.  @batmannow

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## Panther 57

Sedqal said:


> It always was a fight for power, buray kartoot for PA is when politicians dare to make decisions on their own (exactly what they have been elected for). Anyway there is no one in Pakistani history having worse kartoot then Yahya Khan and he was given a burial with full army protocol
> 
> Its also funny when its Army which decides who is 'insaan ka bacha' bloody civilians are yet too stupid to elect the right person to power. How do you feel about Jinnah by the way, was he up to mark by PA standards?


As long as civilians take decision in the interest of the country no one will shun them. But things change when start taking decision in the own interest at the cost of country. Benazir gets the credit of draining the efforts of over two decades by shutting down Indian desk, NS was negotiating a joint venture with General Dynamics to annul atomic test. His stupidity of hijacking the aircraft with COAS was jewel in the crown. Defacto President Rehman Malik and Traitor Hussain Haqqani allowed black waters and CIA operatives to enter the country without immigration. This what they do when they come to power and no body checks them. They were even ready to clip the wings of ISI; until the warning shots were fired. When they mess it up they want PA to clear it up. Look at Karachi Amn Committee, it is their monster and who is clearing it up. NS is ghoof enough to repeat his mistakes. He should have become wiser now after the previous debacles. But still same fanfare, protocols, PKR800,000 hotel rooms, etc, etc. @batmannow


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## batmannow

Panther 57 said:


> As long as civilians take decision in the interest of the country no one will shun them. But things change when start taking decision in the own interest at the cost of country. Benazir gets the credit of draining the efforts of over two decades by shutting down Indian desk, NS was negotiating a joint venture with General Dynamics to annul atomic test. His stupidity of hijacking the aircraft with COAS was jewel in the crown. Defacto President Rehman Malik and Traitor Hussain Haqqani allowed black waters and CIA operatives to enter the country without immigration. This what they do when they come to power and no body checks them. They were even ready to clip the wings of ISI; until the warning shots were fired. When they mess it up they want PA to clear it up. Look at Karachi Amn Committee, it is their monster and who is clearing it up. NS is ghoof enough to repeat his mistakes. He should have become wiser now after the previous debacles. But still same fanfare, protocols, PKR800,000 hotel rooms, etc, etc. @batmannow



if one of them, was patriotic non of marshallaws could hve happened, a just small adition
whivh means it really doesnt matters who they select for the job, but if they think they can find another kiyani again, they should be living in fools paradise?



nuclearpak said:


> Shahbaz Sharif also lobbying for Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood.



apprantly thts the open secret!
& looks like, he is touching the finishing lines?



nuclearpak said:


> Shahbaz Sharif also lobbying for Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood.



apprantly thts the open secret!
& looks like, he is touching the finishing lines?


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## BATMAN

No politician have capacity or qualification enough to choose any post of any institution, including a simple post of a peon.

Almost every politician is morally corrupt.

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## Bratva

TaimiKhan said:


> After the trip to USofA by Mr.Nawaz Sharif, we will know who the future chief is. He will be taking the decision for the future chief from the US.
> 
> Pathetic.



UsofA also wants a "Thanda Jenrail" like Kiyaani. Rashid Mehmood will win the raceunfortunately.


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## Panther 57

mafiya said:


> UsofA also wants a "Thanda Jenrail" like Kiyaani. Rashid Mehmood will win the raceunfortunately.



I am afraid you are right. We need a commander who can lead from front.



mafiya said:


> UsofA also wants a "Thanda Jenrail" like Kiyaani. Rashid Mehmood will win the raceunfortunately.



I am afraid you are right. We need a commander who can lead from front.


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## Sedqal

MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n;4881033 said:


> kya baat kar raha haey yar tu ...  you are comparing *our esteemed Jinnah*  to these suCker politicians ...



Our esteemed Jinnah was very blunt about role of Army in Pakistan: 

"Do not forget that the armed forces are the servants of the people. You do not make national policy; it is we, the civilians, who decide these issues and it is your duty to carry out these tasks with which you are entrusted.

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## Sedqal

Panther 57 said:


> As long as civilians take decision in the interest of the country no one will shun them. But things change when start taking decision in the own interest at the cost of country. Benazir gets the credit of draining the efforts of over two decades by shutting down Indian desk, NS was negotiating a joint venture with General Dynamics to annul atomic test. His stupidity of hijacking the aircraft with COAS was jewel in the crown. Defacto President Rehman Malik and Traitor Hussain Haqqani allowed black waters and CIA operatives to enter the country without immigration. This what they do when they come to power and no body checks them. They were even ready to clip the wings of ISI; until the warning shots were fired. When they mess it up they want PA to clear it up. Look at Karachi Amn Committee, it is their monster and who is clearing it up. NS is ghoof enough to repeat his mistakes. He should have become wiser now after the previous debacles. But still same fanfare, protocols, PKR800,000 hotel rooms, etc, etc. @batmannow



If you recall Benazir and PMLN were never allowed to follow their policies. It is simply ridiculous to claim that PPP and PMLN were not taking decisions in favor of Pakistan. Correct thing to say is that those two took some decisions which were not in line with what establishment had planned. 

Dictator apologists have circular logic, Bhutto was bad because he started operation on Baluchistan. Zia was good because he brought every anti-bhutto force on board including Baluchistanis. Musharraf was good when he started an operation against the same forces which Zia brought in the mainstream and PMLN is bad when it tries to bring same baluchistanis on negotiation table. Its like a knee jerk reaction if a dictator does something it is by its very nature patriotic and well thought, if a civilian leader decides on something for you lot it is by nature anti=Pakistan and a blunder (even when the policy matches with some ex-dictator).

Pakistan was cut in half during Yahya's era, name one politician who had harmed this country as much? But easy way out blame bhutto and mujeeb and keep silent on man who was heading the whole disaster (Yahya). NS was traitor for trying to forge good relations with India but Musharraf becomes the icon of bravery for going to same Vajpai and cornering him into shaking hands with Musharraf. It was during Zia's era when we lost Siachen. What happened afterwards? where was 111 brigade which is so active when its a bloody civilian in power? Zia actually claimed that Siachen was useless even grass dosen't grow there. Today if a civilian takes a decision on Siachen it becomes the highest strategic value item for PA. 

There is nothing in here but power struggle, during Ayub's era PA got the first taste of power and from that time onwards it is not willing to let go, country be damned. They have turned Pakistan into Congo, which other country in the world has that frequent martial laws, the whole system has been bastardized. Look at Jinnah and his vision and what PA has turned Pakistan into.

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## Sedqal

Top it off with the simple fact that during EVERY dictator role retired Army officers took the best jobs in public sphere. Almost every major ministry and public organization was headed by a retired army officer. Do you know that civilian officers from those places were groomed for the top job for decades? they took countless courses and training for the very reason. Yet their right is thrown out of the window and a freak who has nothing to do/ no experience in public policy is heading those organizations. Where was the discipline then? The civilians who were denied their rightful promotions and positions were Indians? or some inferior life form? You nitwits remember seniority when it comes to promotion of COAS (even when legally MoD sends the names to PM and he has every right to make anyone a COAS from that list) but where are the same freaking cries of seniority when retired thugs from PA occupy the top spots in civilian organizations? Everything is kosher then? Idiots.


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## mikkix

this forum is supporting Rashid and I am feeling scared. I guess Haroon is not good but after reading this thread I guess Haroon is better than Rashid.


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## Panther 57

Sedqal said:


> If you recall Benazir and PMLN were never allowed to follow their policies. It is simply ridiculous to claim that PPP and PMLN were not taking decisions in favor of Pakistan. Correct thing to say is that those two took some decisions which were not in line with what establishment had planned.
> 
> Dictator apologists have circular logic, Bhutto was bad because he started operation on Baluchistan. Zia was good because he brought every anti-bhutto force on board including Baluchistanis. Musharraf was good when he started an operation against the same forces which Zia brought in the mainstream and PMLN is bad when it tries to bring same baluchistanis on negotiation table. Its like a knee jerk reaction if a dictator does something it is by its very nature patriotic and well thought, if a civilian leader decides on something for you lot it is by nature anti=Pakistan and a blunder (even when the policy matches with some ex-dictator).
> 
> Pakistan was cut in half during Yahya's era, name one politician who had harmed this country as much? But easy way out blame bhutto and mujeeb and keep silent on man who was heading the whole disaster (Yahya). NS was traitor for trying to forge good relations with India but Musharraf becomes the icon of bravery for going to same Vajpai and cornering him into shaking hands with Musharraf. It was during Zia's era when we lost Siachen. What happened afterwards? where was 111 brigade which is so active when its a bloody civilian in power? Zia actually claimed that Siachen was useless even grass dosen't grow there. Today if a civilian takes a decision on Siachen it becomes the highest strategic value item for PA.
> 
> There is nothing in here but power struggle, during Ayub's era PA got the first taste of power and from that time onwards it is not willing to let go, country be damned. They have turned Pakistan into Congo, which other country in the world has that frequent martial laws, the whole system has been bastardized. Look at Jinnah and his vision and what PA has turned Pakistan into.



No point arguing with those who have built in hatred for army. It was Bhutto indeed who was instrumental in dismemberment of Pakistan. Blame goes to Yahya because he was the head of state. Remember, governments are not run on the whims of one person. There are group of aides and advisers. Falling for the wrong advice is not something unnatural. Human is to err, however, there is difference between an erroneous decision or taking an erroneous advice and to take actual one sided decisions like BB and NS, for their personal interests.


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## Sedqal

Panther 57 said:


> No point arguing with those who have built in hatred for army. It was Bhutto indeed who was instrumental in dismemberment of Pakistan. Blame goes to Yahya because he was the head of state. Remember, governments are not run on the whims of one person. There are group of aides and advisers. Falling for the wrong advice is not something unnatural. Human is to err, however, there is difference between an erroneous decision or taking an erroneous advice and to take actual one sided decisions like BB and NS, for their personal interests.



- Please spare me the sermons of built in hatred of Army. As a Pakistani you can expect respect from me for the soldiers on battlefield, don't expect me to respect dictators and thugs who conduct coups and indulge in harming my country actively. I don't differ the thugs of TTP from the thugs in Khaki who hold radio Pakistan and PTV on gunpoints. They are exactly doing the same thing. TTP also thinks that public is too dumb and doesn't know anything. Only TTP commanders have the grand insight in running the state and only TTP knows the real Islam. 

- At least you have accepted the role of Yahya, pray tell how did Yahya got any bad advice? Yahya was notorious for his love for fat meat (prostitutes) and alcohol. Infact there is documentary evidence that before the breakup of Pakistan he was spending more time with prostitutes and drunk then acting like a head of state. You referred Shahab-Nama in an earlier post, have you read what the same Qudrut Ullah Shahab had to say about Yahya? And here in lies the main question. IF according to you PA is so patriotic why was there no coup against Yahya? Where was the bloody 111 brigade which is boiling in self righteous fury when there is a bloody civilian in charge? Where was 111 brigade when Siachen was lost during Zia's tenure? Why no coups? Zia took the whole affair in a stride not considering it worth his time to even properly condemn the incident. But today if a civilian leader negotiates on same Siachen he/ she becomes the greatest traitor to state and 11 brigade can't wait to jump[ over the walls of parliament.

- Ofcourse at the end of the day ONLY you and your ilk know Ilm-e-Ghaib. Only you know that politicians were after personal interest and Zia, Ayub, Yahya and Musharraf were always after greater good of nation. The bloody black Pakistanis were in the wrong when Zia appeared with a whip and whipped these shodars into jehad mode. Public was also in wrong when Musharraf appeared with all guns blazing and started shooting the same public into modern enlightenment mode. Ofcourse public will also be in wrong when tomorrow situation in Afghanistan changes and more cheap pashtoons are needed to play cannon fodder for grand strategic design, another adventure for 111 brigade another messiah will appear with a blazing sword to circumcise the bloody enlightened ones into religious fury. You know what, **** you. I've had it.

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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

BATMAN said:


> No politician have capacity or qualification enough to choose any post of any institution, including a simple post of a peon.
> 
> Almost every politician is morally corrupt.



brother , can you point out those Lt.gens.in Pak.army who have got green eyes ? Or perhaps any major generals for that matter ?


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## Sedqal

MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n;4883483 said:


> brother , can you point out those Lt.gens.in Pak.army who have got green eyes ? Or perhaps any major generals for that matter ?



For the love of God are you talking about the myth of 'green eyed' ruler who will bring prosperity to Pakistan? Dude these lame myths are dime a dozen and carefully made to shape public opinion in favour of dictators. That is why there are numerous myths about 'nojawanoun kee hakoomat' and 'danday wali sarkar'. No freaking Danday wali sarkar is going to come, we will only move ahead when we have a clearly defined system and that system is allowed to mature.


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## batmannow

Sedqal said:


> For the love of God are you talking about the myth of 'green eyed' ruler who will bring prosperity to Pakistan? Dude these lame myths are dime a dozen and carefully made to shape public opinion in favour of dictators. That is why there are numerous myths about 'nojawanoun kee hakoomat' and 'danday wali sarkar'. No freaking Danday wali sarkar is going to come, we will only move ahead when we have a clearly defined system and that system is allowed to mature.


 *your noora mind only has ,NOORA SARKAR, NOORAY KAA DANDAA, NOORAA SYSTEM & off course NOORAY KA PAKISTAN?
bad boys, bad boys , bad boys!
what you gona do, what you gona do!
when they come for you?*


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## Kompromat

*Pakistani army chief Ashfaq Kayani's successor faces a host of challenges*

Date | October 20, 2013 - 3:16PM

Ben Doherty







Read more: Pakistani army chief Ashfaq Kayani's successor faces a host of challenges






_Who will be next ... General Ashfaq Kayani, right, with then president Pervez Musharraf, took over command of the army in November, 2007. Photo: Reuters

Read more: Pakistani army chief Ashfaq Kayani's successor faces a host of challenges_

*Rawalpindi: Fourteen years ago, when Nawaz Sharif was last prime minister of Pakistan, he thought he had his man in uniform. He was wrong. In 1998, over several more senior officers, Sharif chose to appoint Pervez Musharraf as his chief of army staff. It was to prove neither a happy, nor a long, union. Sharif must choose a man he can work with ... but not so pliant he will not have the respect of his forces. Within a year, with both men's reputations damaged by Pakistan's provocation of fighting with India in Kashmir, Sharif sought to sack his general.*


But the general had the army, and on October 12, 1999, even as the prime minister ordered a plane carrying Musharraf to be prevented landing on Pakistani soil, his troops seized control of the airport and, by evening, the government. Musharraf was in charge. The episode, while dramatic, was sadly unexceptional in Pakistan which, in its short independent history, has known three coups and 33 years under military rule. 

In 2013, Sharif is back in residence at the Prime Minister's Secretariat, inheriting a well-regarded, apolitical, Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Kayani. But after six years in the post, Kayani will stand down next month, and Sharif must choose his replacement carefully. Pakistan is different now. The old aphorism that the head of the army was "the most powerful man in Pakistan" is heard less often. While Kayani wields undoubted influence, he has been praised for keeping the army "in barracks" and recognising the primacy of Pakistan's elected civilian government.

This year, for the first time since independence, a civilian government in Pakistan completed its full term, went to an election, and a new administration was voted in: a matter of routine for most democracies but a significant victory in a country where governments are generally ended by tanks in the streets, and politicians in jail or on gallows. A coup now seems, if not an impossibility, certainly highly unlikely in Pakistan. But a new army chief is a balancing act for Sharif. He must choose a man he feels he can work with, and control, but not one who is so pliant he will not have the respect, or command, of his forces.

The General-Secretary of the Pakistan Ex-Servicemen's Association, Brigadier Syed Masud ul-Hassan told Fairfax Media in the garrison city of Rawalpindi that by keeping the army out of politics, Kayani had established a template for whoever followed him into the post. "This is the way it will be &#8211; and the way it should be. The first objective must be the rule of law and respect for the constitution. Whatever happens, the army should not come into politics." The most senior lieutenant-general when Kayani retires will be Haroon Aslam, who won acclaim for leading the highly successful operation to clear the Swat Valley of the Taliban in 2009.

Lieutenant-General Rashad Mahmud is a former director of counter-terrorism for Pakistan's spy agency, the Inter-Service Intelligence, a qualification of supreme significance as Pakistan tries to quell the insurgent violence on its north-west frontier. Other senior officers reportedly under consideration are Lieutenant-General Raheel Sharif (no relation to the Prime Minister) and Lieutenant-General Tariq Khan.

"The army is a disciplined force," Mahsud said. "Any of the lieutenant-generals who might be promoted will have experience and will be capable". But whichever three-star general inherits the extra pip now on Kayani's shoulders will face a host of challenges. The most immediate is the seemingly intractable battle against militant extremists who wash back and forth across the mountainous border with Afghanistan as the seasons and fighting dictate. A third of Pakistan's army has been posted there for a decade.

In a position that might seem anathema to a military man, the new head of the army will have to be willing to sit down to talk with the Taliban. Sharif is in favour of talks (though a recent bomb attack on a church has cooled his enthusiasm), and Kayani has been similarly disposed. The Taliban are not negotiators, and the new army chief will have a difficult time winning any concessions towards peace. The Taliban are refusing to disarm, demand their prisoners be released and say they will never recognise the constitution of the country. 

Despite this, talk the new chief must. 

The relationship with the US is fragile. The assassination of Osama bin Laden &#8211; only about two kilometres from Pakistan's West Point &#8211; was an immense embarrassment for Pakistan's military establishment, and comments like those of the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs Admiral Mike Mullen that the Haqqani terrorist network is "a strategic arm of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Agency" are a demonstration of just how little trust remains between the two countries. 

But new faces on both sides of the relationship bring hope. Before he became US Secretary of State, John Kerry was his country's point man on Pakistan and is well respected in Pakistan's political and military institutions.

And, of course, for Pakistan's new military chief, there remains the country's fractious relationship with fellow nuclear-armed neighbour India, the usual tensions exacerbated this year by regular outbreaks of violence on their contested border in Kashmir.

India does not believe Pakistan's efforts on terrorism are genuine. Masud said that if the terrorist attacks could be diminished, other issues would become easier to manage. "But fighting the terrorists is not an easy job. We are not fighting an enemy sitting in front of us. The enemy is hard to identify. They are in the mountains and in the cities, among the people."

He said the military leadership should be prepared to negotiate with the Taliban rebels it's been fighting so long. "Everybody wants peace. If that can be achieved without further fighting, then everybody is happy. Peace will be good for all in Pakistan."


Read more: Pakistani army chief Ashfaq Kayani's successor faces a host of challenges


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## Tameem

batmannow said:


> *your noora mind only has ,NOORA SARKAR, NOORAY KAA DANDAA, NOORAA SYSTEM & off course NOORAY KA PAKISTAN?*


*

What's harm in it buddy, After all "Allah-u-Nooras-samavati Wal-arz"

Aaa Too bhee kalma Parh lay*


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## Bratva

Tameem said:


> What's harm in it buddy, After all "Allah-u-*Nooras*-samavati Wal-arz"
> 
> Aaa Too bhee kalma Parh lay



Jaahil Insaan,,, It's Noor us samawati wal arz. Don't twist the pronunciation of quranic ayaah to score some political mileage

Open Quran and learn how to read it.

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## farhan_9909

whatever we predict here in PDF never comes true
Tariq Khan and Haroon Aslam are on top considering PDF.

But i am sure Noora will select the Let General Rashad Mehmood


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## Armstrong

farhan_9909 said:


> whatever we predict here in PDF never comes true
> Tariq Khan and Haroon Aslam are on top considering PDF.
> 
> But i am sure Noora will select the Let General Rashad Mehmood



I can't stop listening to Shaan's Janaan !


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## Darth Vader

RazPaK said:


> Anybody as long as it is not Kiyani the na mard.



what he has done so you are calling him na mard ? war is a cool minded game what do you want him to do start a war with india , US , nato , Taliban and afg with same time ? dude Germany were way more advance in 2nd world war then Allied forces but still they took panga with too many

how pakistan can fight with Only indian forces when their are terrorist in our backyard if he would have started the war it would have been the same situation of 1971 , when you know you gone lose its foolish to still take panga , he had responsibility to save all Pakistan not took them into a open massacre. He cares about more then any one in this forum and he he has more knowledge and more brains then most users here. Pakistan needs a cool minded Gern Not a hot head cz it will only hurt Pakistan


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## Tameem

mafiya said:


> Jaahil Insaan,,, It's Noor us samawati wal arz. Don't twist the pronunciation of quranic ayaah to score some political mileage
> 
> Open Quran and learn how to read it.



Your abuse talk shows clearly who exactly in Allah's Noor, we overwhelmingly bless by him on May 11......So No doubt we are Nooras........Alhamdolillah


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## batmannow

Tameem said:


> What's harm in it buddy, After all "Allah-u-*Nooras*-samavati Wal-arz"
> 
> Aaa Too bhee kalma Parh lay



thts what exactly was expected from a NOORA MIND, by just putting a pakistani NOORA inside even in a kalmaa?
well done, laa hoola walaa kuwataa?


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## batmannow

Tameem said:


> Your abuse talk shows clearly who exactly in Allah's Noor, we overwhelmingly bless by him on May 11......So No doubt we are Nooras........Alhamdolillah



so you think , nawaz noora is allha,s noor? wow?
& kissing his, tind may become the ultimate haj?
& back in 99, that noora was kicked by army by the will of allaha, if you are with you your dam winning theories, trying to make him superfiticial?

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## Armstrong

@Darth Vader - Hello, the *Emperor* here !  
*
Padme Amidalla* sent a message through the *Force* : Please change at least one of your flags to *Pakistan* !


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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

Sedqal said:


> For the love of God are you talking about the myth of 'green eyed' ruler who will bring prosperity to Pakistan? Dude these lame myths are dime a dozen and carefully made to shape public opinion in favour of dictators. That is why there are numerous myths about 'nojawanoun kee hakoomat' and 'danday wali sarkar'. No freaking Danday wali sarkar is going to come, we will only move ahead when we have a clearly defined system and that system is allowed to mature.



don't worry sweetie , he is not coming too soon ...


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## Darth Vader

Armstrong said:


> @Darth Vader - Hello, the *Emperor* here !
> *
> Padme Amidalla* sent a message through the *Force* : Please change at least one of your flags to *Pakistan* !



 But Why is that  i wasnt born in pak nor i live in pak so avee apna jhanda(flag) change kara and give her my msg that Dark lord got a new toy

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## Armstrong

Darth Vader said:


> But Why is that  i wasnt born in pak nor i live in pak so avee apna jhanda(flag) change kara and give her my msg that Dark lord got a new toy



Kid that toy belongs to the Emperor !  

Because you've got Pakistani blood in you so you're one of us !


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## Viking 63

My vote is for Tariq Khan !!!


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## Darth Vader

Armstrong said:


> Kid that toy belongs to the Emperor !
> 
> Because you've got Pakistani blood in you so you're one of us !



Dude my 1st name is shahzada  so heres your answer for the 1st line about 

Pakistan Blood i love Pakistan as much as you guys do and i love norway as much i love Pakistan But i wont or i dont have to put a tag So people know that i really love Pakistan or bla bla , No one can see whats inside only Allah

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## Darth Vader

@Armstrong and i know their is some problem  with indian they cry about my flags =)) those idiots

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## Sugarcane

Darth Vader said:


> @Armstrong and i know their is some problem  with indian they cry about my flags =)) those idiots



Actually they love us and can't tolerate that anyone other than Pakistanis bashing them.

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## Darth Vader

LoveIcon said:


> Actually they love us and can't tolerate that anyone other than Pakistanis bashing them.



Not fair  They Gave Zero and we cant talk about zeros not fair


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## Viking 63

Indian === Morons !!!

Anyone knows who MR.Sharif has decided as Army chief !!

Anyone knows who MR.Sharif has decided as Army chief !!

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## Sugarcane

Darth Vader said:


> Not fair  They Gave Zero and we cant talk about zeros not fair



If you are legally adult than you can discuss kamasutra 

PS: Don't derail the thread 



Darth Vader said:


> Not fair  They Gave Zero and we cant talk about zeros not fair



If you are legally adult than you can discuss kamasutra 

PS: Don't derail the thread


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## notorious_eagle

mafiya said:


> UsofA also wants a "Thanda Jenrail" like Kiyaani. Rashid Mehmood will win the raceunfortunately.



Are you freaking kidding me? 

How did you arrive at the conclusion that 'Rashad Mahmood' is a 'Thanda Jernail'. The man is an Exceptional Officer with a very distinguished career. He is currently the CGS and was previously Corps Commander(IV Corps). Both of these commands are the most coveted positions and only the most Competent Officer is chosen for these positions. If he has successfully executed his duties seamlessly for both these positions, that means he is qualified to became the COAS.

The five Officers shortlisted for the position of COAS are all equally qualified and competent Officers. If either one of them is selected, it will be a good day for the Army as an institution. But to say that Rashad Mahmood is any less qualified than other short listed Officers is folly at best.

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## Bratva

notorious_eagle said:


> Are you freaking kidding me?
> 
> How did you arrive at the conclusion that 'Rashad Mahmood' is a 'Thanda Jernail'. The man is an Exceptional Officer with a very distinguished career. He is currently the CGS and was previously Corps Commander(IV Corps). Both of these commands are the most coveted positions and only the most Competent Officer is chosen for these positions. If he has successfully executed his duties seamlessly for both these positions, that means he is qualified to became the COAS.
> 
> The five Officers shortlisted for the position of COAS are all equally qualified and competent Officers. If either one of them is selected, it will be a good day for the Army as an institution. But to say that Rashad Mahmood is any less qualified than other short listed Officers is folly at best.



Obviously, you didn't get the context of post nor understood the term "Thanda Jenrail"


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## notorious_eagle

mafiya said:


> Obviously, you didn't get the context of post nor understood the term "Thanda Jenrail"



I know exactly what it means. If you think Rashid Mehmood is a 'Thanda Jernail' based on your personal hunch, this conversation is over.

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## BATMAN

notorious_eagle said:


> I know exactly what it means. If you think Rashid Mehmood is a 'Thanda Jernail' based on your personal hunch, this conversation is over.



What was his role in current counter insurgency ops.?

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## notorious_eagle

BATMAN said:


> What was his role in current counter insurgency ops.?



He is the Chief of General Staff(CGS). CGS is directly responsible for the operational and intelligence aspects of the Army. DGMO and DGMI reports directly to the CGS.

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## farhan_9909

I believe Let General Tariq Khan might be selected despite him being the 4th by seniority


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## BATMAN

notorious_eagle said:


> He is the Chief of General Staff(CGS). CGS is directly responsible for the operational and intelligence aspects of the Army. DGMO and DGMI reports directly to the CGS.



What has he done with the reports received, so far?


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## notorious_eagle

BATMAN said:


> What has he done with the reports received, so far?



I don't know, why don't you call him and find out?


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## BATMAN

notorious_eagle said:


> I don't know, why don't you call him and find out?



I don't need to find out it is clear, that for reason unknown, no reports from field had any impact, daily dead soldiers has become norm. and tolerating traitor media and dual national politicians, have become a constitution.

As a head of defence of state, he should have taken a strong stand or resigned... there were many strong cases to do so.

We are talking here about abnormal state of affairs, and we are patrolling Afghan border in pickup trucks, this is in-excusable... dam give your soldier a fighting chance before they die!!!!!

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## fatman17

Opinion
*The next COAS*
Dr Farrukh Saleem

Sunday, October 27, 2013 






Capital suggestion

The race is on. The two slots to be filed are: the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) and the chief of army staff (COAS). Here’s the seniority list: Lieutenant Generals Haroon Aslam (PA16837), Rashad Mahmood (PA16871), Raheel Sharif (PA17408), Tariq Khan (PA17625), Zaheerul Islam (PA17636), Salim Nawaz (PA17642) and Khalid Rabbani (PA17831). They are all professionally competent, technically proficient with proven command abilities to lead the 6th largest military force on the face of the planet. Apparently, Admiral Sandila is still in the race for CJCSC.

Seniority be damned. Merit as meaningless as a particle of sand along the Arabian Sea’s shoreline. The lone criterion is loyalty – as lonely as a cloud over the Gobi Desert. PM Nawaz Sharif picked Lt General Musharraf who was 5th in the seniority list. PM Nawaz Sharif also picked Lt General Ziauddin Butt (PA6989) from the Army Corps of Engineers. General Ziaul Haq was 7th on the seniority list (but the highest on the perceived loyalty list).

The race is on. The three forces that would interact and then come up with the new name are: the institutional recommendation of the Pakistan Army, a ‘perceived loyalty test’ by the PM and a ‘war-on-terror capacity perception test’ by the Pentagon.

The institutional recommendation of Pak Army is clear – Lt General Rashad Mahmood, the current chief of general staff (CGS). The CGS heads the general staff branch of army General Headquarters and the all-important directorates of Military Operations and Military Intelligence. Lt General Rashad Mahmood belongs to the Baloch Regiment (General Kayani is also from the Baloch Regiment) and has served as military secretary (MS) to President Tarrar and corps commander Lahore. For the record, Generals Yahya Khan, Aslam Beg, Asif Nawaz and Jahangir Karamat were all promoted from CGS to COAS. Generals Shamim Alam, Aziz Khan, Tariq Majid and Khalid Shameem Wynne were all promoted from CGS to CJCSC.

A ‘perceived loyalty test’ by the PM – and his team that allegedly comprises CM Shahbaz Sharif and Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar – may indeed be an ongoing process till the finalisation of a particular name. If PA17408 (3rd on the seniority) or PA 17625 (4th on the seniority) is picked to fill CJCSC then that would knock off two or three senior generals in effect making 4th or 5th general on the seniority list as the senior-most for COAS. This loyalty test would apparently continue to interact with the other two forces (namely the institutional recommendation of Pak Army and a ‘war-on-terror capacity perception test’ by the Pentagon).

The Pentagon’s ‘war-on-terror capacity perception test’ is as important as food is to a balanced diet. Lt General Tariq Khan has commanded the 14th Infantry Division in South Waziristan and led the Frontier Corps to victory in the Battle of Bajaur. He has been Pakistan’s senior representative at Centcom and in 2007 he received the United States Legion of Merit. Pentagon’s influence should not be underestimated. After all, Lt General (Retd) Khaled Kidwai is in his 13th year as the DG of the Strategic Plans Division (SPD).

Seniority be damned. Merit a mere slogan as empty as Satan’s heart.

The writer is a columnist based in Islamabad. Email: farrukh15@hotmail.com

Twitter: @saleemfarrukh

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## notorious_eagle

fatman17 said:


> Lieutenant Generals Haroon Aslam (PA16837), Rashad Mahmood (PA16871), Raheel Sharif (PA17408), Tariq Khan (PA17625), Zaheerul Islam (PA17636), Salim Nawaz (PA17642) and Khalid Rabbani (PA17831).



The merits of having a professional institution. All the Gentlemen named above are exceptional Officers with very distinguished careers. If any one of them is selected to serve as the COAS, it will be a good day for Pakistan.


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## Tacticool

notorious_eagle said:


> The merits of having a professional institution. All the Gentlemen named above are exceptional Officers with very distinguished careers. If any one of them is selected to serve as the COAS, it will be a good day for Pakistan.


Haroon aslam is my vote for


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## fatman17

*Judging Kayani *
Babar Sattar

Published 2013-10-28

HOW will history judge Gen Kayani? Will he be remembered as a great army chief who was the soldiers’ soldier and improved the terms of service of the lower ranks? Will he be remembered as a great general who prevented Pakistan from going over the precipice while caught in the eye of the storm? Will he be remembered as a leader who resisted the temptation to launch a coup while confronted with sickly democracy and patiently steered civil-military relations in the right direction?

Gen Kayani comes across as an affable man. He seems to be someone who understands nuance and the grey in life. He reads and is thus better than those who don’t. He comprehends what he reads and this qualifies him as a thoughtful man. He understands that silence is mostly golden and that timing is almost everything in life. These two traits have served his personal career faithfully. But is it a curse of our times that thoughtfulness, self-serving expediency and a record of inflicting less harm than possible now define leadership?

Being lucky is often explained as being at the right place at the right time. By that definition Gen Kayani is one lucky man. He came to power when the rot created by Musharraf had begun to nauseate even the khakis. He was a breath of fresh air merely by virtue of being the one who pushed Musharraf into the wilderness. And he stayed in power at a time when the measure of his leadership was whether he was better or worse than Asif Zardari. So will Gen Kayani be remembered kindly by history because he was the lesser evil of his time?

Gen Kayani was appointed DG ISI in October 2004 and after three years he succeeded Musharraf as army chief in November 2007. In other words, Gen Kayani has been at the helm in our country at least since 2004 (even if not before as Corps Commander X Corps and DGMO) and a major actor in all that has transpired since. Let us take stock of his contribution to making Pakistan a more secure place, the institutional values that he cultivated within the army as its head, and his role in strengthening the rule of law and democracy.

Let us start with the bottom line. Are we better placed to confront threats to our national security — whether external or internal — today as opposed to when Gen Kayani first arrived on the horizon nearly a decade ago? There is general agreement that TTP-led terrorism poses an existential threat to our state and society now more than ever. This threat has steadily grown over the years. Is it good enough for Gen Kayani, who has effectively presided over our national security apparatus for years, to lay all blame for the lack of an anti-terrorism policy on blundering civilians?

The army did a great job in Swat. But if the idea was to deny militants their own emirates within Pakistan and clean out sanctuaries, why was North Waziristan not reclaimed after South? If non-state actors have become the bane of our security, why has the possibility of their use in future still not been banished from our national security mindset? In other words, if a flawed national security policy nurtured the monster of terrorism within Pakistan over the last three decades, how has such policy been reviewed and revised under Gen Kayani’s leadership?

And what about security and intelligence failures under Gen Kayani? The most ignominious catastrophes that come to mind include the GHQ attack in 2009, the US operation against Osama bin Laden in 2011, and the US-Nato Salala attack that claimed 24 Pakistani soldiers’ lives also in 2011. What are the two things common to all three? One, no one was ever held accountable for the colossal failures that shook public faith in the ability of the state to protect itself. And two, the most benevolent explanation for each was that we are incompetent not complicit.

Our armed forces appear more disciplined and efficient in a comparison between civil and military institutions. The reason for this relative efficiency is explained as being twofold: military promotions are on merit; and individuals are held to account for their acts and omissions. The latter rule might produce unjust results at times: the fate of an officer is sealed if he loses men under his command or presides over a failure even when not personally at fault. The message is simple: the commander is responsible for whatever transpires under his watch.

Has accountability as an institutional value been strengthened by Gen Kayani? Did he not promote the officer in charge of GHQ’s security when it was attacked in 2009? Did he not defend Gen Pasha when the country was aghast at the failure of our intelligence and security apparatus to either spot Bin Laden in the country or a foreign country carrying out a military operation across from the Pakistan Military Academy? Gen Kayani might have cultivated a new khaki tradition for the high command: whenever you falter or fail, it is someone else’s fault.

Gen Kayani mastered the art of projecting how he might have been in power but not responsible for any of the bad. Was he not DG ISI when Lal Masjid erupted a stone’s throw away from his Abpara office? Was he not in play as interlocutor in the NRO deal between Benazir Bhutto and Musharraf? If the judges were eventually restored in 2009 on his order, why did he stay mum on March 9, 2007, when the chief justice was first ousted, on Nov 3, 2007 when emergency-plus was imposed and judges arrested, or thereafter for almost two years?

Gen Kayani accepted a three-year extension against army tradition, losing respect of many he led, supposedly to rescue Pakistan from its national security nightmare. Three years later he has little to show for himself. If history deems Gen Kayani worth remembering at all, it should be as the status quo general who had a tremendous sense of timing and effectively transformed the monumental crises confronting his country into an opportunity for personal advancement for himself.

_The writer is a lawyer._
sattar@post.harvard.edu
Twitterbabar_sattar

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## fatman17

*Zia had the longest military career, Ayub the shortest*

Pakistan’s 14 army chiefs to-date

Sabir Shah
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 


*
LAHORE: Of the 14 army chiefs and commanders-in-chief that Pakistan has had since 1947, General Ziaul Haq (1924-1988) had the longest military career spread well over 45 years and three months, while Field Marshal General Muhammad Ayub Khan (1907-74) had the shortest service length of 30 years, 10 months and 24 days, a thorough research and calculation conducted by “The News International” reveals.*

Zia was commissioned in the British Indian Army in a cavalry regiment on May 12, 1943 and had served against Nazi Germany and its allies in World War II, whereas Ayub Khan had started his military service on February 2, 1928.Both Zia and Ayub Khan had also served as country’s presidents in uniform.

As far as the longest tenure as Army Chief is concerned, General Zia-ul-Haq (1924-1988) again takes the lead. He had served on this key position between March 1, 1976 and August 17, 1988, which thereby signifies that his term in office had lasted 12 years, 5 months and 16 days.
General Gul Hassan (1921-1999) had served as the Commander-in-Chief for the shortest period of time. Appointed Acting Commander-in-Chief on December 20, 1971, Gul Hassan was notified as Commander-in-Chief on January 22, 1972 till his ouster on March 3, 1972. Inclusive of his tenure as Acting Commander-in-Chief, General Gul Hassan had served on this post for just two months and 11 days.

Here follow some more interesting facts about all Pakistani Army Chiefs and Commanders-in-Chief till date, especially with reference to the length of their military careers and their respective tenure as heads of the land-based uniform service branch of the Pakistan Armed Forces:
General Sir Frank Walter Messervy (1893-1974) was the First Commander-in-Chief of Pakistan Army from August 15, 1947 to February 10, 1948. He had served for less than six months 175 days only to be more precise. He was commissioned in the Indian Army on January 21, 1913 and held the job till August 22, 1948, which means his career as a soldier was about 35 years, 7 months and one day long.

General Sir Douglas David Gracey (1894-1964), who had served in both First and Second World Wars, was the second Commander-in-Chief of Pakistan. He had remained in this office from February 11, 1948 to January 16, 1951. His tenure as Army Chief had lasted two years, 11 months and 5 days.

Gracey did not send troops to the Kashmir front and had refused to obey the order to do so given by Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the first Governor-General of Pakistan. Gracey had argued that Quaid-i-Azam, as Governor-General, represented the British Crown of which he himself was an appointee. Similar to Gracey, the early heads of Pakistan’s Air Force and Naval Force were Englishmen.

Gracey was commissioned in September 15, 1915, which means he had a military career of 35 years, 7 months and 14 days till April 29, 1951, when he had finally retired from service. He was born in Muzaffarnagar (Uttar Pradesh) to English parents living in India.

Field Marshal General Muhammad Ayub Khan (1907-74) was made Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army on January 17, 1951, succeeding General Sir Douglas Gracey, thus becoming the first native Pakistani General to hold this prestigious position. He was the third Commander-in-Chief.

Initially, it was General Iftikhar Khan who was promoted to four-star rank and appointed as first native Chief of Army Staff but he had died in an airplane crash en route to his senior officers training in the United Kingdom.

However, Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan had appointed Ayub, preferring him to a few senior officers like being Major-General Major General Ishfakul Majid, Major General Akbar Khan and Major General N.A.M. Raza.

A self-appointed Field Marshal, the only such five-star rank in Pakistan’s military history, he was also the second President of Pakistan and its first military dictator from 1958 until his forced resignation in 1969.

He was appointed the first Chief Martial Law Administrator by President Iskander Mirza in 1958, a post he had retained until the promulgation of a new constitution in 1962. As Army Chief, Ayub Khan had served between January 17, 1951 and October 26, 1958. His tenure as Army Chief had lasted seven years, 9 months and 9 days. He got commission on February 2, 1928, which means his military career was 30 years, 10 months and 24 days long.

General Muhammad Musa Khan (1908-1991) had risen to the rank of the Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Armed Forces in October 1958, an office he had held till September 17, 1966. The term of this fourth Pakistani Commander-in-Chief had lasted around 7 years and 11 months. His promotion to Commander-in-Chief had seen suppression of his seniors including Major General Sher Ali Khan Pataudi, Major General Latif Khan and Major General Adam Khan.

General Musa had succeeded Field Marshal Ayub Khan, who assumed the Presidency of Pakistan. General Mohammed Musa had got commission from Indian Military Academy in Dehradun on February 1, 1935, which means his military career was 31 years, 6 months and 16 days long. After General Musa had retired from the Army, President Ayub Khan had appointed him as the Governor of West Pakistan from 1967 to 1969.

After serving for a few years, he retired and settled in Karachi. In 1985, he was once again involved in politics. He was appointed Governor of Balochistan by the then President General Zia-ul-Haq. In Balochistan, Governor General Musa dissolved the provincial assembly in December 1988. However, the Balochistan High Court restored the assembly amid public condemnation of Governor’s move. The step towards dissolving the assembly was believed to have been taken with the consent of the President and Prime Minister though.

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## fatman17

General Agha Muhammad Yahya Khan (1917-1980) became the fifth Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistani Armed Forces on September 18, 1966 and held this office till December 20, 1971. His tenure as Army Chief was 5 years, 3 months and 2 days long. He had also served as the 3rd President of Pakistan from 1969 until East Pakistan’s secession in 1971. He had declared martial law for the second time in Pakistan’s history.
Yahya Khan was commissioned in British Army on July 15, 1939, which means his military career had spanned a period of 32 years, 5 months and 5 days.
In December 1971, during his tenure, Pakistan was defeated by India, with 93,000 of its Army personnel in Dhaka taken as prisoners-of-war. East Pakistan had then seceded to become Bangladesh. Yahya had then handed over the presidency to Bhutto and had stepped down as Army Chief in disgrace.
Bhutto had stripped Yahya of all previous military decorations and placed him under house arrest for most of the 1970s. When Bhutto was overthrown in a military coup in 1977, Yahya was released by General Ziaul Haq.
General Gul Hassan was appointed Acting Commander-in-Chief on December 20, 1971. He was appointed sixth Commander-in-Chief on January 22, 1972 till his ouster on March 3, 1972. Inclusive of his tenure as Acting Commander-in-Chief, General Gul Hassan had served on this post for just 2 months and 11 days.
This remains the minimum tenure of any Pakistani Army Chief till date. He was removed by the then President Zulfikar Ali Bhutto after the Hamoodur Rahman Commission, led by Chief Justice Hamoodur Rahman, had recommended his sacking. In a trial led by JAG Branch, General Hassan Khan was immediately retired from the Army and further relieved from any benefits given to the retired officers. He was commissioned on February 22, 1942, which means his military career had spanned a period of 30 years and 9 days. He had also served as ADC to Governor-General Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan.
General Tikka Khan (1915-2002) was Pakistan’s seventh Chief of Army Staff from March 3, 1972 to March 1, 1976. He had served just two days less than 4 years.
He was commissioned on December 22, 1940, which means his military career had spanned over a period of 35 years, 2 months and 7 days. He fought in World War II as part of the Indian Army.
After his retirement, Tikka Khan was appointed Defence Minister by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. General Zia-ul-Haq’s July 1977 coup had led to the arrest of both Bhutto and General Tikka Khan. Bhutto was executed in 1979, after which General Tikka Khan had emerged as one of the leaders of the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), becoming its Secretary General, during a time when many of Bhutto’s trusted confidants had deserted this political entity.
General Tikka was imprisoned numerous times for his political activities during the late 1970s and 1980s, until Zia-ul-Haq died in August 1988 in an airplane crash.
General Tikka Khan was also appointed the Governor of Punjab in December 1988. When Tikka died on March 28, 2002, he had received a state burial. His funeral was attended by thousands of people, including the entire Pakistan Army hierarchy of the time.
General Zia-ul-Haq was appointed the eighth Chief of Army Staff on March 1, 1976. He remained in uniform till his accidental death on August 17, 1988. He remained in this office for 12 years, 5 months and 16 days.
At the time of his appointment, General Zia had superseded seven Generals. Those senior to General Zia were Messrs Muhammad Shariff, Muhammed Akbar Khan, Aftab Ahmed Khan, Azmat Baksh Awan, Agha Ibrahim Akram, Abdul Majeed Malik and Ghulam Jilani Khan.
The senior most at that time, Lieutenant-General Mohammad Shariff, though promoted to General, was made the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee.
Zia was also the sixth President of Pakistan from September 16, 1978 until his accidental death on August 17, 1988.
He was Pakistan’s longest-serving head of state. He had declared the third martial law in the country’s history in 1977 after deposing an elected Premier Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. Zia was commissioned in the British Indian Army in a cavalry regiment on May 12, 1943 and had served against Nazi Germany and its allies in World War II. So overall, his military career had spanned 45 years and 3 months.
General Mirza Aslam Beg (born 1931) was made the ninth Chief of Army Staff on August 17, 1988 and had remained in the office till August 1, 1992. His tenure had lasted just 16 days less than 4 years.
He got commission in Pakistan Army on August 23, 1952, which means his military career was spread over a period of nearly 40 years. Beg was denied an extension from President Ghulam Ishaq Khan in 1991.
Apart from his military career, Beg briefly tenured as professor of security studies at the National Defence University (NDU) and also wrote newspaper columns.
After retirement, he was accused of playing an internal role in the airplane crash that killed General Zia and was summoned to the Supreme Court of Pakistan in 2012 for his alleged role in the Mehran Bank scandal, for bribing opposition politicians with millions of rupees prior to elections in 1990.
Upon returning to civilian life, General Beg founded and established a policy think-tank institute, known as Foundation for Research on International Environment National Development and Security (Friends).
General Asif Nawaz Janjua (1937-1993) was the 10th Chief of Army Staff of the Pakistan Army from August 16, 1991 till his death in office on January 8, 1993. His term as Army Chief had lasted just one year, four months and 22 days.
He had suffered heart attack while he was jogging near his home in Rawalpindi. He is widely remembered as having died under mysterious circumstances. His widow demanded investigation and registration of a murder case. Former DG ISI Gen Asad Durrani had supported investigation in this case
General Janjua had got commission on March 31, 1957, which means his military career was spread over a period of 35 years, 9 months and 8 days.
One of his achievements as Chief of Pakistan Army was an anti-dacoit operation in Sindh, where he had deployed his best officers and direct orders were given to them to eliminate those dacoits from Dadu district.
General Abdul Wahid Kakar (born 1937) was made the eleventh Chief of Army Staff on January 12, 1993 and had held the office till January 12, 1996. His tenure as Army Chief was exactly three years long.
With Kakar’s appointment, at least four senior generals were superseded. These generals were Lt General Rehm Dil Bhatti, Lt General Mohammad Ashraf, Lt General Farrakh Khan and Lt General Arif Bangash. Among these generals, the last two had opted to stay in the Army.
Kakar got commission on October 18, 1959, which means his military career was spread over a period of 36 years, 2 months and 25 days.
General Wahid Kakar is remembered for starting the Shaheen Nuclear Missile Project. After taking over as COAS, Kakar had forced both Ghulam Ishaq Khan and Nawaz Sharif to tender their resignations at the height of the political and constitutional crisis in 1993.
General Jehangir Karamat (born 1941) was made the twelfth Chief of the Army Staff on January 12, 1996 and had held this office till October 7, 1998. He had served on this slot for 2 years, 8 months and 25 days.
Karamat got commission on October 14, 1961, which means he had a nearly 37-year long military career. After retiring from military service, he served as a professor of Political science at the National Defence University (NDU) in Islamabad.
In 2004, General Jehangir Karamat was appointed as Pakistan’s Ambassador to the United States where he served from November 2004 until June 2006. He is also one of very few army generals in the military history of Pakistan to have resigned over a disagreement with the civilian authorities.
In 1995, along with Major-General Ali Kuli Khan of Military Intelligence, General Karamat had exposed the attempted coup d’état against the government of the then Prime minister Benazir Bhutto, who had later conferred a national award on him.
General Pervez Musharraf (born 1943) was the 13th Chief of Army Staff from October 6, 1998 till November 28, 2007.
He served as Army Chief for 9 years, one month and 22 days. Nawaz Sharif had preferred him to General Ali Quli Khan and General Khalid Nawaz Khan.
He had also served as country’s 10th President from June 2001 to August 2008. He got commission in Kakul on April 19, 1964, which thereby means that Musharraf had a military career of 43 years, 7 months and 9 days. The sitting Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani’s military career would span a period of 42 years and exactly three months on November 29, 2013, when he has announced to step down as Pakistan’s 14th Army Chief after 42 days from now.
Born on April 20, 1952, General Kayani had joined the Pakistan Army on August 29, 1971. As Army Chief, he will have served for 6 years by November 29, 2013 or his due retirement date.

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## Strongman

notorious_eagle said:


> The merits of having a professional institution. All the Gentlemen named above are exceptional Officers with very distinguished careers. If any one of them is selected to serve as the COAS, it will be a good day for Pakistan.





notorious_eagle said:


> The merits of having a professional institution. All the Gentlemen named above are exceptional Officers with very distinguished careers. If any one of them is selected to serve as the COAS, it will be a good day for Pakistan.



No,not "all"of them are exceptional officers and atleast 3 of them are not even fit for promotion. I dont know how people keep comparing the top 5? 1 is exceptional, rest are the same ( avg ).


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## notorious_eagle

Strongman said:


> No,not "all"of them are exceptional officers and atleast 3 of them are not even fit for promotion. I dont know how people keep comparing the top 5? 1 is exceptional, rest are the same ( avg ).



When you make such an audacious claim, you are supposed to back it up with logic and evidence. 

All 5 of these Officers are three stars. Anyone that makes it to a 3 Star has proven himself to be a competent and capable Officer. A Corp Commander essentially leads a Mini Army with more than 60 000 troops under his command. An Officers true merit is tested there, and if he can execute his duties seamlessly, that means he is competent enough to be the COAS. All 5 of these Officers have served at very important and distinguished Posts, this effectively nullifies your argument that 3 of them are not fit for promotion. 

I would really like to know on what merits are you basing your argument on?


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## Strongman

notorious_eagle said:


> When you make such an audacious claim, you are supposed to back it up with logic and evidence.
> 
> All 5 of these Officers are three stars. Anyone that makes it to a 3 Star has proven himself to be a competent and capable Officer. A Corp Commander essentially leads a Mini Army with more than 60 000 troops under his command. An Officers true merit is tested there, and if he can execute his duties seamlessly, that means he is competent enough to be the COAS. All 5 of these Officers have served at very important and distinguished Posts, this effectively nullifies your argument that 3 of them are not fit for promotion.
> 
> I would really like to know on what merits are you basing your argument on?

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## Strongman

In that case are all Colonels fit to be brigadiers? And are all brigadiers fit to be GOCs? Do all GOCs become commanders? Use some common sense! The same logic applies here! So when seniority doesnt apply there, how does it apply here? So according to your logic , every1 till date shouldve been promoted to rank of corp commander and all of them shouldve made it to the next rank because they command mini army's. How about judging by performance? Have all these people served in waziristan? Face it thats where the real issue is!

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## mave

I see Lt -Gen.Haroon Aslam promoting him self for COAS on different forums making him self look like some mr bond from SSG and claiming he is the senior most so he is fit for the job when he has got 3 months to retire. In fact the situation is totally different as the country is in a state of war and we have security issues and this kind of scenario Gen Haroon is not capable to handle and please remember the SSG always does targeted operations - they are not the fighting force, so we see only one man out of all that is LT.GEN Tariq Khan commander 1 corps the striking force. Furthermore Mian Nawaz Sharif having not good experiences with SSG in the past will never do this mistake again, he also needs a strong COAS like General Tariq Khan to handle the chaotic situation in the country which will benefit him to save his own government. So General Tariq Khan is the right person for the right job at the moment. *P.S* *PLEASE DONT TRUST ARAB NEWS*.

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## Bono

mave said:


> I see Lt -Gen.Haroon Aslam promoting him self for COAS on different forums making him self look like some mr bond from SSG and claiming he is the senior most so he is fit for the job when he has got 3 months to retire. In fact the situation is totally different as the country is in a state of war and we have security issues and this kind of scenario Gen Haroon is not capable to handle and please remember the SSG always does targeted operations - they are not the fighting force, so we see only one man out of all that is LT.GEN Tariq Khan commander 1 corps the striking force. Furthermore Mian Nawaz Sharif having not good experiences with SSG in the past will never do this mistake again, he also needs a strong COAS like General Tariq Khan to handle the chaotic situation in the country which will benefit him to save his own government. So General Tariq Khan is the right person for the right job at the moment. *P.S* *PLEASE DONT TRUST ARAB NEWS*.


Excellent Post

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## Strongman

Bono said:


> Excellent Post


Makes sense!

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## SBD-3




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## alibaz

mave said:


> I see Lt -Gen.Haroon Aslam promoting him self for COAS on different forums making him self look like some mr bond from SSG and claiming he is the senior most so he is fit for the job when he has got 3 months to retire. In fact the situation is totally different as the country is in a state of war and we have security issues and this kind of scenario Gen Haroon is not capable to handle and please remember the SSG always does targeted operations - they are not the fighting force, so we see only one man out of all that is LT.GEN Tariq Khan commander 1 corps the striking force. Furthermore Mian Nawaz Sharif having not good experiences with SSG in the past will never do this mistake again, he also needs a strong COAS like General Tariq Khan to handle the chaotic situation in the country which will benefit him to save his own government. So General Tariq Khan is the right person for the right job at the moment. *P.S* *PLEASE DONT TRUST ARAB NEWS*.



I don't think that General Haroon was born in SSG and had been conducting raids and ambushes with few men throughout his service and now from SSG he has become CLS. Sir he had done courses, remained on command and staff appointments in infantry regiments, brigades , division and corps, which any officer can think of. If he has served in SSG for few years doesn't mean he doesn't have experience of planning and execution of standard operations. If you want to see TK as COAS then I can understand your point but please don't undermine capabilities and potentials all 4/5 generals in the run rest assure they all are very fine officers and have full potential to command this army. PM has prerogative to select any one out of three names forwarded in panel or send back the list for another panel. What if a General Kiyani sends panel of first three senior most ( gen Haroon, gen Rashid and gen raheel)


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## SQ8

Strongman said:


> In that case are all Colonels fit to be brigadiers? And are all brigadiers fit to be GOCs? Do all GOCs become commanders? Use some common sense! The same logic applies here! So when seniority doesnt apply there, how does it apply here? So according to your logic , every1 till date shouldve been promoted to rank of corp commander and all of them shouldve made it to the next rank because they command mini army's. How about judging by performance? Have all these people served in waziristan? Face it thats where the real issue is!



That is not exactly the way promotion goes.. but your point might have merit in that fact that merit plays a lesser role going from Brig to general than it does all the way up. So yes, those that made Brig did have enough green marks during their tenure as colonel to do so. Above that however(just as in any organization).. who you know above you starts to matter.


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## fatman17

notorious_eagle said:


> When you make such an audacious claim, you are supposed to back it up with logic and evidence.
> 
> All 5 of these Officers are three stars. Anyone that makes it to a 3 Star has proven himself to be a competent and capable Officer. A Corp Commander essentially leads a Mini Army with more than 60 000 troops under his command. An Officers true merit is tested there, and if he can execute his duties seamlessly, that means he is competent enough to be the COAS. All 5 of these Officers have served at very important and distinguished Posts, this effectively nullifies your argument that 3 of them are not fit for promotion.
> 
> I would really like to know on what merits are you basing your argument on?


 
up to the rank of Brig, its through the promotions board and mostly on merit. at this stage all the laggards are weeded out, leaving the 'cream' to then be selected upwards. having said that all 2-star and 3-star officers dont come up to the expectations - only a few do. having said that, all promotions to 2-star and above are based on merit but also on 'networking', key posts held, likes and dislikes.


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## mave

alibaz said:


> I don't think that General Haroon was born in SSG and had been conducting raids and ambushes with few men throughout his service and now from SSG he has become CLS. Sir he had done courses, remained on command and staff appointments in infantry regiments, brigades , division and corps, which any officer can think of. If he has served in SSG for few years doesn't mean he doesn't have experience of planning and execution of standard operations. If you want to see TK as COAS then I can understand your point but please don't undermine capabilities and potentials all 4/5 generals in the run rest assure they all are very fine officers and have full potential to command this army. PM has prerogative to select any one out of three names forwarded in panel or send back the list for another panel. What if a General Kiyani sends panel of first three senior most ( gen Haroon, gen Rashid and gen raheel)



General Kiyani is a wise man so we expect a wise decision from him, about General Haroon after is achievements (according to you), why was he sent to EERA and then he was sent to cmnd a corp in bahawalpur and within a year he was made head of logistics, does that make any sense .


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## Nishan_101

Koi ALLAH Wala General ban jaein. Ameen.

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## Strongman

alibaz said:


> I don't think that General Haroon was born in SSG and had been conducting raids and ambushes with few men throughout his service and now from SSG he has become CLS. Sir he had done courses, remained on command and staff appointments in infantry regiments, brigades , division and corps, which any officer can think of. If he has served in SSG for few years doesn't mean he doesn't have experience of planning and execution of standard operations. If you want to see TK as COAS then I can understand your point but please don't undermine capabilities and potentials all 4/5 generals in the run rest assure they all are very fine officers and have full potential to command this army. PM has prerogative to select any one out of three names forwarded in panel or send back the list for another panel. What if a General Kiyani sends panel of first three senior most ( gen Haroon, gen Rashid and gen raheel)


 My point is that we dont want mr chief transporter to
Run this army. Not at this time. The country cant afford it.






alibaz said:


> I don't think that General Haroon was born in SSG and had been conducting raids and ambushes with few men throughout his service and now from SSG he has become CLS. Sir he had done courses, remained on command and staff appointments in infantry regiments, brigades , division and corps, which any officer can think of. If he has served in SSG for few years doesn't mean he doesn't have experience of planning and execution of standard operations. If you want to see TK as COAS then I can understand your point but please don't undermine capabilities and potentials all 4/5 generals in the run rest assure they all are very fine officers and have full potential to command this army. PM has prerogative to select any one out of three names forwarded in panel or send back the list for another panel. What if a General Kiyani sends panel of first three senior most ( gen Haroon, gen Rashid and gen raheel)

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## alibaz

Strongman said:


> My point is that we dont want mr chief transporter to
> Run this army. Not at this time. The country cant afford it.



Mr strongman logistics plays a vital role, without logistics foot soldiers , tankers and gunners would be of no use, no matter how got weapons they have, brave and competent they are. He is a soldier not a transporter and better learn what all logistics is?


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## alibaz

mave said:


> General Kiyani is a wise man so we expect a wise decision from him, about General Haroon after is achievements (according to you), why was he sent to EERA and then he was sent to cmnd a corp in bahawalpur and within a year he was made head of logistics, does that make any sense .



This shows he has variety of experience, going by your logic why General Tariq has never been given staff ever since he was promoted to Major General. Was he incompetent to plan and manage things. Once someone is Major General he commands a Division and once he goes as DG MO he plan for whole army, similar case is for lt gen. Bottom line is there is some one who has the authority to select someone out of the panel and non of officers being considered lacks abilities. Army chief is not elected democratically through vote.


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## mave

alibaz said:


> Mr strongman logistics plays a vital role, without logistics foot soldiers , tankers and gunners would be of no use, no matter how got weapons they have, brave and competent they are. He is a soldier not a transporter and better learn what all logistics is?


Haha to me he looks like a transporter, otherwise he would have been posted some where better.

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## Strongman

The army couldnt afford another screw up in battle. So that is why while other Lt. Generals sat and made epic plans in Rwl pindi, Lt. General Tariq khan was sent to fight A war rather than make more plans as staff. The only general to have been given 6 consecutive commands and have participated in over 50 kinectic operations. No need for more staff. As staff college, war college and instructor war college are more than enough for staff. All operations managed by him were also won by him, so was competant enough. Would u rather support a person who was trying to come up with a successful plan?



alibaz said:


> This shows he has variety of experience, going by your logic why General Tariq has never been given staff ever since he was promoted to Major General. Was he incompetent to plan and manage things. Once someone is Major General he commands a Division and once he goes as DG MO he plan for whole army, similar case is for lt gen. Bottom line is there is some one who has the authority to select someone out of the panel and non of officers being considered lacks abilities. Army chief is not elected democratically through vote.


 


mave said:


> Haha to me he looks like a transporter, otherwise he would have been posted some where better.





Strongman said:


> The army couldnt afford another screw up in battle. So that is why while other Lt. Generals sat and made epic plans in Rwl pindi, Lt. General Tariq khan was sent to fight A war rather than make more plans as staff. The only general to have been given 6 consecutive commands and have participated in over 50 kinectic operations. No need for more staff. As staff college, war college and instructor war college are more than enough for staff. All operations managed by him were also won by him, so was competant enough. Would u rather support a person who was trying to come up with a successful plan?



Im sure it does! Just like the Nato truck supplier chief plays a pivotal role in the afghan/ american battle.


alibaz said:


> Mr strongman logistics plays a vital role, without logistics foot soldiers , tankers and gunners would be of no use, no matter how got weapons they have, brave and competent they are. He is a soldier not a transporter and better learn what all logistics is?





mave said:


> Haha to me he looks like a transporter, otherwise he would have been posted some where better.

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## mave

alibaz said:


> This shows he has variety of experience, going by your logic why General Tariq has never been given staff ever since he was promoted to Major General. Was he incompetent to plan and manage things. Once someone is Major General he commands a Division and once he goes as DG MO he plan for whole army, similar case is for lt gen. Bottom line is there is some one who has the authority to select someone out of the panel and non of officers being considered lacks abilities. Army chief is not elected democratically through vote.


No match to General Tariq Khan you know that yourself and whole the army knows. who cares about staff when we are in war type situation. SWORD OF HONER, ALWAYS HAVE BEEN ON COMMAND, LEGION OF MERIT, ETC.

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## Rain Forest

Strongman said:


> The army couldnt afford another screw up in battle. So that is why while other Lt. Generals sat and made epic plans in Rwl pindi, Lt. General Tariq khan was sent to fight A war rather than make more plans as staff. The only general to have been given 6 consecutive commands and have participated in over 50 kinectic operations. No need for more staff. As staff college, war college and instructor war college are more than enough for staff. All operations managed by him were also won by him, so was competant enough. Would u rather support a person who was trying to come up with a successful plan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure it does! Just like the Nato truck supplier chief plays a pivotal role in the afghan/ american battle.


Pakistan army needs General Tariq Khan. 


Strongman said:


> The army couldnt afford another screw up in battle. So that is why while other Lt. Generals sat and made epic plans in Rwl pindi, Lt. General Tariq khan was sent to fight A war rather than make more plans as staff. The only general to have been given 6 consecutive commands and have participated in over 50 kinectic operations. No need for more staff. As staff college, war college and instructor war college are more than enough for staff. All operations managed by him were also won by him, so was competant enough. Would u rather support a person who was trying to come up with a successful plan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure it does! Just like the Nato truck supplier chief plays a pivotal role in the afghan/ american battle.


General Haroon political man and political family influence, Nawaz Sharif had a lot of bad experince from politically backed people so he also needs someone like General Tariq Khan who can just stick to army and to handle war situation in the country.


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## MrShabi2010

I want Musharraf Sir again

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## alibaz

Strongman said:


> The army couldnt afford another screw up in battle. So that is why while other Lt. Generals sat and made epic plans in Rwl pindi, Lt. General Tariq khan was sent to fight A war rather than make more plans as staff. The only general to have been given 6 consecutive commands and have participated in over 50 kinectic operations. No need for more staff. As staff college, war college and instructor war college are more than enough for staff. All operations managed by him were also won by him, so was competant enough. Would u rather support a person who was trying to come up with a successful plan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure it does! Just like the Nato truck supplier chief plays a pivotal role in the afghan/ american battle.



Am not comparing, it's you who is comparing two general officers. Amazingly the person who is comparing two general officers considers logistics as truck supplies.
I don't say who is better cause once some one rises to this level means the officer has all the abilities to be Army Chief. Fortunately COAS is not an elected post, someone has right to select and surely he will exercise his right. For me there is no issue if it is Haroon, Rashid, Raheel or Tariq but if seniority is given precedence that would be better. 


Rain Forest said:


> Pakistan army needs General Tariq Khan.
> General Haroon political man and political family influence, Nawaz Sharif had a lot of bad experince from politically backed people so he also needs someone like General Tariq Khan who can just stick to army and to handle war situation in the country.



I hope you know who is General Tariq Khan and which family he belongs to. Nawaz Sharif had bad experience cause he selected the third person who had no politically strong family by superseding two senior generals who belonged to politically strong families. Surely General Musharraf was not son of Nawab of Tank.


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## alibaz

Suddenly why some people with very few post have started supporting one officer and degrading others. Supporting or liking someone is good but degrading someone is alarming.

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## notorious_eagle

fatman17 said:


> up to the rank of Brig, its through the promotions board and mostly on merit. at this stage all the laggards are weeded out, leaving the 'cream' to then be selected upwards. having said that all 2-star and 3-star officers dont come up to the expectations - only a few do. having said that, all promotions to 2-star and above are based on merit but also on 'networking', key posts held, likes and dislikes.


 
Thank You for clearing it out

This is exactly what i have been trying to say. Networking works in PA just like in any other organization. All 5 of the Officers short listed are exceptional officers having served at very important and strategic posts.

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## farhan_9909

Tariq Khan is the ultimate choice.

The person who can deal with the present situation

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## Rain Forest

alibaz said:


> Am not comparing, it's you who is comparing two general officers. Amazingly the person who is comparing two general officers considers logistics as truck supplies.
> I don't say who is better cause once some one rises to this level means the officer has all the abilities to be Army Chief. Fortunately COAS is not an elected post, someone has right to select and surely he will exercise his right. For me there is no issue if it is Haroon, Rashid, Raheel or Tariq but if seniority is given precedence that would be better.
> 
> I hope you know who is General Tariq Khan and which family he belongs to. Nawaz Sharif had bad experience cause he selected the third person who had no politically strong family by superseding two senior generals who belonged to politically strong families. Surely General Musharraf was not son of Nawab of Tank.


I have been reading you posts for quite sometime and i joined the forum yesterday, i have noticed that you are targeting one person.

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## Strongman

Yup and being posted as cls in an indicator! Isnt it? Sidelined!! no cls has ever been promoted further.The post cant be taken too seriously. You want a person who got sacked from "command" after a year to command the 6th largest army of the world? Doesnt make sense to me. Dont know how u people come with all this.



alibaz said:


> Am not comparing, it's you who is comparing two general officers. Amazingly the person who is comparing two general officers considers logistics as truck supplies.
> I don't say who is better cause once some one rises to this level means the officer has all the abilities to be Army Chief. Fortunately COAS is not an elected post, someone has right to select and surely he will exercise his right. For me there is no issue if it is Haroon, Rashid, Raheel or Tariq but if seniority is given precedence that would be better.
> 
> I hope you know who is General Tariq Khan and which family he belongs to. Nawaz Sharif had bad experience cause he selected the third person who had no politically strong family by superseding two senior generals who belonged to politically strong families. Surely General Musharraf was not son of Nawab of Tank.


 Dont know! Take a wild guess. Wat has number of posts got to do with anything? Dont know y u r here in the first place

quote="alibaz, post: 4932365, member: 7009"]Suddenly why some people with very few post have started supporting one officer and degrading others. Supporting or liking someone is good but degrading someone is alarming.[/quote]


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## alibaz

Rain Forest said:


> I have been reading you posts for quite sometime and i joined the forum yesterday, i have noticed that you are targeting one person.



Who is the target. 


notorious_eagle said:


> Thank You for clearing it out
> 
> This is exactly what i have been trying to say. Networking works in PA just like in any other organization. *All 5 of the Officers short listed are exceptional officers having served at very important and strategic posts.*



Very right sir


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## mave

alibaz said:


> Am not comparing, it's you who is comparing two general officers. Amazingly the person who is comparing two general officers considers logistics as truck supplies.
> I don't say who is better cause once some one rises to this level means the officer has all the abilities to be Army Chief. Fortunately COAS is not an elected post, someone has right to select and surely he will exercise his right. For me there is no issue if it is Haroon, Rashid, Raheel or Tariq but if seniority is given precedence that would be better.
> 
> I hope you know who is General Tariq Khan and which family he belongs to. Nawaz Sharif had bad experience cause he selected the third person who had no politically strong family by superseding two senior generals who belonged to politically strong families. Surely General Musharraf was not son of Nawab of Tank.


Nawab of Tank ( Waziristan) you are right and the problem lies there so you said it youself directly or indirectly, Right man for Right Job. LOL

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## fatman17

with NS, expect the decision to be based on average advise of his advisors which include the bumbling ch. nisar.- what is really required is a 'road less travelled' type of decision because we are in a state of war and with fazlullah heading TTP it becomes 'enemy no-1 of the armed forces' - forget peace talks. now the army has to go in NWA.

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## mave

fatman17 said:


> with NS, expect the decision to be based on average advise of his advisors which include the bumbling ch. nisar.- what is really required is a 'road less travelled' type of decision because we are in a state of war and with fazlullah heading TTP it becomes 'enemy no-1 of the armed forces' - forget peace talks. now the army has to go in NWA.



CLICK THIS LINK: The War Rages On ‹ Newsweek Pakistan


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## Fair lady

alibaz said:


> Suddenly why some people with very few post have started supporting one officer and degrading others. Supporting or liking someone is good but degrading someone is alarming.


Mr Baz this country belong to the young generataion of Pakistan some people with very few posts are silent readers they come up when they see people with many posts are misleading the forum. Alarming is when people write without knowing that facts .

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## Strongman

Very right fair lady! Agreed!

te="Fair lady, post: 4934035, member: 150959"]Mr Baz this country belong to the young generataion of Pakistan some people with very few posts are silent readers they come up when they see people with many posts are misleading the forum. Alarming is when people write without knowing that facts .[/quote] We need an honest brave professional general!


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## A_Khan

We, as a Nation construe facts to our liking, we place our personal preferences above all, even the interests of our motherland, Pakistan. Perhaps this is one of the reasons we are in such a state; we only work for our personal interests, we must rise above these interests and think about what is best for Pakistan.

There are no two opinions about the fact that the Taliban issue needs to be resolved; if we want our families and future generations to lead a free life in this country. I do not agree that our belief in Islam is any less than that of the Talibans and they have no authority to declare this!

With all due respect to the force, SSG is intended for very important but SMALL scale operations involving a small group of people. We need someone who can lead, motivate and protect the entire Military force against these outlaws that control a vast area of our country and are also striving to infiltrate the Army in the name of religion.

Only General Tariq Khan has had the remarkable achievement of keeping the forces under his command intact and motivated during a massive and successful operation against the Militants in Bunner District, at that very time another parallel Commander failed to show this strength and had to be replaced. 

No General in the history has ever sold this country to the Americans, its always been the Politicians! But sadly our media lies to an extent that it distorts history. A very recent example of this is the Lal Masjid Case.

John Adams's once said: "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Just some food for thought!

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## Farah Sohail

Now this is something very strange.. How come ppl who hav just joined the forum with 1 or 2 posts...are ALL suddenly coming to support General Tariq khan and defame Gen Haroon particularly? While, no one here doubts about the capabilities of Gen Tariq khan and mostly all here have appreciated him a lot...i do find this suspicious tht a group of new members who hv just joined...come here automatically , and tht too, all at the same time now..together...to support Gen Tariq khan(nothing wrong with tht), but with a particular emphasis on defaming General Haroon.. Theres a same pattern in all new member's posts... Is it some sort of a campaign against Gen Haroon or what?

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## Fair lady

Farah Sohail said:


> Now this is something very strange.. How come ppl who hav just joined the forum with 1 or 2 posts...are ALL suddenly coming to support General Tariq khan and defame Gen Haroon particularly? While, no one here doubts about the capabilities of Gen Tariq khan and mostly all here have appreciated him a lot...i do find this suspicious tht a group of new members who hv just joined...come here automatically , and tht too, all at the same time now..together...to support Gen Tariq khan(nothing wrong with tht), but with a particular emphasis on defaming General Haroon.. Theres a same pattern in all new member's posts... Is it some sort of a campaign against Gen Haroon or what?


Reality always hurts then people start thinking negative, blaming games, campaign etc.

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## Strongman

No need to defame.Its just the truth. Few posts doesnt make sense, this forum doesnt belong to you. 



Farah Sohail said:


> Now this is something very strange.. How come ppl who hav just joined the forum with 1 or 2 posts...are ALL suddenly coming to support General Tariq khan and defame Gen Haroon particularly? While, no one here doubts about the capabilities of Gen Tariq khan and mostly all here have appreciated him a lot...i do find this suspicious tht a group of new members who hv just joined...come here automatically , and tht too, all at the same time now..together...to support Gen Tariq khan(nothing wrong with tht), but with a particular emphasis on defaming General Haroon.. Theres a same pattern in all new member's posts... Is it some sort of a campaign against Gen Haroon or what?


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## A_Khan

@ Farhan Sohail

Facts my friend, just simple hard hitting facts...

It is a fact that the SSG is intended for small scale operations and is not intended for a cleanup operation against these outlaws (I prefer using the word outlaws over their brand name "Taliban"). 

I wonder how you've construed this simple fact towards defaming someone! 

This decision concerns the life of every Pakistani, while we have no authority over it we have the right to speak freely...


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## Farah Sohail

Obviously...everyone has the right to express their opinion.. I am no one to challenge it...but where were all of you ..till few days ago? How have all of u come, all of a sudden, TOGETHER , to say exactly the same thing?


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## RazPaK

Tariq Khan is the man for the job.

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## Fair lady

Farah Sohail said:


> Obviously...everyone has the right to express their opinion.. I am no one to challenge it...but where were all of you ..till few days ago? How have all of u come, all of a sudden, TOGETHER , to say exactly the same thing?


Check the comment after you have commented i think (RazPak) is quite an old member and he says the same (General Tariq Khan). All Pakistani nation is against (TTP) TOGETHER so they say exactly the same thing. Stand up and say he is the right man for the job.

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## Farah Sohail

@Fair lady U didnt understand my post.. Theres nothing wrong in supporting and appreciating General Tariq khan..but why defame others for this? Why do u need to put down General Haroon for supporting General Tariq khan? but the more suspicious aspect is when a group of ppl....all of a sudden come and try to put down General Haroon..And even more tht none of u here (newbies) hv talked abt any of other generals.. u newbies hv supported General Tariq khan while particular emphasis is on defaming General Haroon?How come all of u say exactly same thing?

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## Bono

Farah Sohail said:


> Obviously...everyone has the right to express their opinion.. I am no one to challenge it...but where were all of you ..till few days ago? How have all of u come, all of a sudden, TOGETHER , to say exactly the same thing?


YOU MEAN TO SAYS NEW MEMBER CANT SAY ANYTHING. ARE YOU SOME KIND OF BOSS HERE.


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## Bono

Farah Sohail, post: 4935359, member: 137634"]@Fair lady U didnt understand my post.. Theres nothing wrong in supporting and appreciating General Tariq khan..but why defame others for this? Why do u need to put down General Haroon for supporting General Tariq khan? but the more suspicious aspect is when a group of ppl....all of a sudden come and try to put down General Haroon..And even more tht none of u here (newbies) hv talked abt any of other generals.. u newbies hv supported General Tariq khan while particular emphasis is on defaming General Haroon?How come all of u say exactly same thing?[/quote]
Well I am a new member on this fourm and i have been reading the posts but i really don't find any defaming or disgracing why are you trying to change such a heathy discussion i only see facts being discussed and some good comparison.


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## Strongman

Dont know whats bugging farah sohail,there is no point in defaming Lt Gen Haroon,
Since he was never in the race anyway, no CLS is. These are just general discussions. Dont know why ure getting bothered. 



Farah Sohail said:


> @Fair lady U didnt understand my post.. Theres nothing wrong in supporting and appreciating General Tariq khan..but why defame others for this? Why do u need to put down General Haroon for supporting General Tariq khan? but the more suspicious aspect is when a group of ppl....all of a sudden come and try to put down General Haroon..And even more tht none of u here (newbies) hv talked abt any of other generals.. u newbies hv supported General Tariq khan while particular emphasis is on defaming General Haroon?How come all of u say exactly same thing?


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## A_Khan

@ Farah Sohail 

Let me put this straight, I stated a simple fact about an organisation and you have somehow construed it to defaming an individual. woah you're smart!

I just stated a fact, let me state it again for you, there is only one MAN for the job, too bad if this fact isn't inline with your thoughts and desires!


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## Saleem

nobody believed me...if the ganjas have their way it will still be general krishna gopalaswamy....


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## fatman17

*Pakistani army chief Ashfaq Kayani's successor faces a host of challenges *

October 20, 2013




*Ben Doherty*
*South Asia correspondent for Fairfax Media*





Who will be next ... General Ashfaq Kayani, right, with then president Pervez Musharraf, took over command of the army in November, 2007. _Photo: Reuters_

*Rawalpindi: *Fourteen years ago, when Nawaz Sharif was last prime minister of Pakistan, he thought he had his man in uniform. He was wrong.

In 1998, over several more senior officers, Sharif chose to appoint Pervez Musharraf as his chief of army staff. It was to prove neither a happy, nor a long, union.

Sharif must choose a man he can work with ... but not so pliant he will not have the respect of his forces.

Within a year, with both men's reputations damaged by Pakistan's provocation of fighting with India in Kashmir, Sharif sought to sack his general.




Nawaz Sharif arrives to cast his vote in the general election in Lahore in May 2013. _Photo: Reuters/Mohsin Raza_

But the general had the army, and on October 12, 1999, even as the prime minister ordered a plane carrying Musharraf to be prevented landing on Pakistani soil, his troops seized control of the airport and, by evening, the government. Musharraf was in charge.

The episode, while dramatic, was sadly unexceptional in Pakistan which, in its short independent history, has known three coups and 33 years under military rule.

In 2013, Sharif is back in residence at the Prime Minister's Secretariat, inheriting a well-regarded, apolitical, Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Kayani.

But after six years in the post, Kayani will stand down next month, and Sharif must choose his replacement carefully.

Pakistan is different now. The old aphorism that the head of the army was "the most powerful man in Pakistan" is heard less often.

While Kayani wields undoubted influence, he has been praised for keeping the army "in barracks" and recognising the primacy of Pakistan's elected civilian government.

This year, for the first time since independence, a civilian government in Pakistan completed its full term, went to an election, and a new administration was voted in: a matter of routine for most democracies but a significant victory in a country where governments are generally ended by tanks in the streets, and politicians in jail or on gallows.

A coup now seems, if not an impossibility, certainly highly unlikely in Pakistan.

But a new army chief is a balancing act for Sharif. He must choose a man he feels he can work with, and control, but not one who is so pliant he will not have the respect, or command, of his forces.

The General-Secretary of the Pakistan Ex-Servicemen's Association, Brigadier Syed Masud ul-Hassan told Fairfax Media in the garrison city of Rawalpindi that by keeping the army out of politics, Kayani had established a template for whoever followed him into the post.

"This is the way it will be – and the way it should be. The first objective must be the rule of law and respect for the constitution. Whatever happens, the army should not come into politics."

The most senior lieutenant-general when Kayani retires will be Haroon Aslam, who won acclaim for leading the highly successful operation to clear the Swat Valley of the Taliban in 2009.

Lieutenant-General Rashad Mahmud is a former director of counter-terrorism for Pakistan's spy agency, the Inter-Service Intelligence, a qualification of supreme significance as Pakistan tries to quell the insurgent violence on its north-west frontier.

Other senior officers reportedly under consideration are Lieutenant-General Raheel Sharif (no relation to the Prime Minister) and Lieutenant-General Tariq Khan.

"The army is a disciplined force," Mahsud said. "Any of the lieutenant-generals who might be promoted will have experience and will be capable".

But whichever three-star general inherits the extra pip now on Kayani's shoulders will face a host of challenges.

The most immediate is the seemingly intractable battle against militant extremists who wash back and forth across the mountainous border with Afghanistan as the seasons and fighting dictate. A third of Pakistan's army has been posted there for a decade.

In a position that might seem anathema to a military man, the new head of the army will have to be willing to sit down to talk with the Taliban.

Sharif is in favour of talks (though a recent bomb attack on a church has cooled his enthusiasm), and Kayani has been similarly disposed.

The Taliban are not negotiators, and the new army chief will have a difficult time winning any concessions towards peace. The Taliban are refusing to disarm, demand their prisoners be released and say they will never recognise the constitution of the country.

Despite this, talk the new chief must.

The relationship with the US is fragile. The assassination of Osama bin Laden – only about two kilometres from Pakistan's West Point – was an immense embarrassment for Pakistan's military establishment, and comments like those of the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs Admiral Mike Mullen that the Haqqani terrorist network is "a strategic arm of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Agency" are a demonstration of just how little trust remains between the two countries.

But new faces on both sides of the relationship bring hope. Before he became US Secretary of State, John Kerry was his country's point man on Pakistan and is well respected in Pakistan's political and military institutions.

And, of course, for Pakistan's new military chief, there remains the country's fractious relationship with fellow nuclear-armed neighbour India, the usual tensions exacerbated this year by regular outbreaks of violence on their contested border in Kashmir.

India does not believe Pakistan's efforts on terrorism are genuine.

Masud said that if the terrorist attacks could be diminished, other issues would become easier to manage.

"But fighting the terrorists is not an easy job. We are not fighting an enemy sitting in front of us. The enemy is hard to identify. They are in the mountains and in the cities, among the people."

He said the military leadership should be prepared to negotiate with the Taliban rebels it's been fighting so long.

"Everybody wants peace. If that can be achieved without further fighting, then everybody is happy. Peace will be good for all in Pakistan."

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## Rahil khan

Funny to see some babies here representing one General as a ultimate choice and another General as Mr Transporter. In my views any one of the top Generals can serve best as a chief, but seniority should be given preference. But i wonder why the political leadership has kept their decision so secret yet. May be they are afraid of their past experiences. Only God knows what's going to happen. Fingers crossed. Let's hope for best for the army my friends.

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## jyynnxx

> In my views any one of the top Generals can serve best as a chief, but seniority should be given preferenc


Why does everyone keep on saying that 
I think it should be who has a clean sheet, best record in army, has foresight to advance army technology, and is not corrupt. Regardless of his seniority or not

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## Umair Nawaz

Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan has realistic chance.

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## Capt.Popeye

*After Kayani *
By Arif Rafiq - Middle East Institute | Oct 18, 2013








_This article originally appeared in _Foreign Policy.
The evening was temperate. The skies were clear. And the general's eyes began to fill with mist. On April 30, 2011, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, now the outgoing head of the Pakistani Army, struggled to hold back his tears as he stood before the Yadgar-e-Shuhada, a memorial dedicated to Pakistani soldiers slain in the line of duty, at the Army's General Headquarters in Rawalpindi.
Kayani's hands quivered as he saluted Pakistan's fallen warriors. He blinked nervously, pressed his lips tight, and swallowed back tears. It was a rare display of emotion by this normally stoic career soldier, a man often described as having an inscrutable "poker face."
That evening marked the nation's second annual Martyrs' Day -- a commemoration inaugurated by Kayani not so much to remind Pakistanis of the sacrifices made in three wars with India but to mobilize national support for an enduring war within. It has been a decade-long war of Pakistani against Pakistani, Muslim against Muslim, and Islam against Islam. Perhaps more than anything, it has also been Ashfaq Kayani's war.
Kayani, who issued a public statement on Oct. 6 confirming his retirement, has commanded the Army in its fight against the Pakistani Taliban for the last six years. His influence was so wide-ranging that Adm. Mike Mullen, while chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, met with him more than two dozen times. Soon, however, he will enter private life. And barring a post-retirement appointment to a civilian post, such as national security advisor, he will retain little, if any, influence over policymaking.
In 2007, Kayani inherited a fighting force that, under his predecessor, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, struggled to counter the jihadi threat in the country's lawless tribal areas and adjoining territories in the years following the 9/11 attacks. Battles between the Army and jihadists often resulted in stalemates, followed by peace deals that militants used to strengthen and spread. The security forces, particularly the paramilitary Frontier Corps, were plagued by significant rates of desertions in the tribal areas, mainly by soldiers who opposed fighting other Muslims. Some communities, in accordance with a fatwa by radical cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi, would refuse to participate in the funeral rites of soldiers whose bodies had been brought back home, believing that the war they had died in was illegitimate and designed to further U.S. interests.
Not only was the Army that Musharraf handed over to Kayani demoralized and fatigued in battle, but it was also overleveraged in politics and business. During his tenure, Kayani distanced the Army from politics. He declared 2008 the "Year of the Soldier" and pledged to improve the living conditions of low-level and noncommissioned officers, men who could not count on the kind of kickbacks and lucrative noncombat appointments enjoyed by senior officers.
At the same time that he was depoliticizing the Army, however, the chain-smoking general was working feverishly behind the scenes to cultivate the support of the elected civilian government and key opinion shapers in the media, particularly nationalists, for a decisive confrontation with the Pakistani Taliban. By 2009, Pakistan was facing its most significant threat in decades: The Taliban had overrun the Swat region in the country's north and had advanced to within 60 miles of the capital, Islamabad. In May of that year, Kayani launched the defining counterinsurgency operation of his tenure, driving the Taliban back into the tribal areas and allowing most of the million-plus Pakistanis who had been displaced to return to their homes within three months
Keen to bolster troop morale and public support, Kayani made regular visits to the front lines in Swat, as well as to some of the six other tribal areas where he had ordered military operations. He also made a regular practice of spending the Eid holidays with deployed military personnel in Swat and South Waziristan -- a clear contrast to many of the civilian government officials who were effectively absent as the country burned.
2010 marked the apex of Kayani's domestic popularity, with his having notched a decisive victory in Swat, and 2011, the beginning of his descent. That year began with the killing of two Pakistanis by a CIA security contractor and ended with an errant U.S. attack on a Pakistani border post that killed two dozen soldiers. Sandwiched in between was Kayani's greatest failing in the court of public opinion -- the Osama bin Laden raid -- not so much because of the Army's failure to find the al Qaeda leader, but from the humiliation of the unilateral U.S. military operation on Pakistani soil.
The general faced harsh criticism from young army officers and the political class, with cricket star turned politician Imran Khan calling for him to resign. The cautious Kayani helped end these crises by compromising with the United States, likely taking a page out of his graduate thesis on the Afghan mujahideen's war against the Soviet Union, a work in which he argued that Pakistan must carefully calibrate its support for the Afghans so as to avert a direct war with a superpower. Still, the army chief managed to never quite give the Americans what they wanted -- decisive action against the Haqqani network based in Pakistan's tribal areas -- literally blowing smoke in the face of senior U.S. officials and maintaining his characteristic silence as they implicitly threatened a repeat of the bin Laden raid.
Now, two years later, Kayani exits the scene against the backdrop of a historic election and with his reputation -- as indicated by plaudits in the Pakistani press -- rehabilitated to some degree. But the war goes on. As an insurgent force, the Pakistani Taliban's strength has been significantly reduced, but it still controls key segments of the tribal areas and remains an enduring terrorist threat. Last year, more terrorist attacks took place in Pakistan than in any other country. The Pakistani Taliban has adapted -- growing in urban areas like Karachi, Pakistan's largest city and commercial hub -- and its partner, the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi terrorist group, has stepped up attacks against Shiite Muslims across the country.
Kayani's successor will have to work under a civilian government, led by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, that lacks the will to fight against the Pakistani Taliban. Sharif has repeatedly called for talks with the terrorist organization, which has pledged to continue its bloody campaign against the state until Islamabad ceases its cooperation with Washington in the war on terror and implements a warped version of Islamic law.
Having clashed with four army chiefs during his two previous stints in office -- and having been overthrown by one of them in 1999 -- Sharif will likely appoint a general who is not only competent, but likely to stay within his constitutional boundaries. But if Sharif chooses deference over competence, he might rule out generals who are best equipped to keep the Pakistani Taliban at bay and defuse future political crises, should they arise.
*Among the five front-runners to replace Kayani, at least two are highly determined to continue the fight against the Pakistani Taliban and would likely resist Sharif's push for talks. Lt. Gen. Haroon Aslam, currently the senior-most general among likely Kayani replacements, is a former commando who led Pakistani special forces into the terrorist-infested Peochar Valley in Swat in 2009. He has publicly pledged to defeat the Pakistani Taliban, saying months after the raid, "We will wipe you out. You are Pakistan's enemies and we love Pakistan."
It would be similarly difficult to imagine dark-horse candidate Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan -- who reformed the fledgling paramilitary Frontier Corps that operates in the tribal areas -- endorsing Sharif's push for talks with the Pakistani Taliban. Khan is also known to be outspoken during meetings of the Army's corps commanders and has reportedly criticized Kayani's restraint toward the civilian government.*
Rounding out the list of lieutenant generals whom Sharif could choose to replace Kayani are Rashad Mahmood, Zaheer ul-Islam, and Raheel Sharif. The latter is possibly the safest choice politically for Nawaz Sharif, as Raheel Sharif enjoys a close relationship with one of the prime minister's confidants. But it's unclear whether he or any of the other potential army chiefs will truly be able to fill Kayani's shoes, especially when it comes to crisis management. Historically, the army chief of staff has played an important role in maintaining stability. For example, in 2009 when tens of thousands of protesters led by Nawaz Sharif marched on the capital to pressure President Asif Ali Zardari to restore the deposed chief justice, Kayani quietly intervened when the time was right, meeting with Zardari and helping finesse the chief justice back into his post. Two free and fair elections also took place during Kayani's tenure -- unprecedented for any Pakistani army chief.
The next army chief will have his work cut out for him. In addition to convincing the reluctant civilian government to continue the fight against the Pakistani Taliban, he will have to help manage the Afghanistan endgame as U.S. troops withdraw and a presidential election take place next year. Pakistan desperately needs the Afghan government to forge a political settlement with its own Taliban -- thereby morally weakening the Pakistani-based insurgency. But Pakistan's civilian government, which has been slow to develop a counterterrorism policy and has balked at major diplomatic appointments, lacks the machinery to handle all the moving pieces. The next army chief, like Kayani, must be able to offer the government strategic direction in pursuit of a grand bargain in Afghanistan.
In addition to completing Kayani's war, the next army chief will have to fundamentally change the way Pakistan's security services operate inside the country -- so as to avoid sowing the seeds of their own destruction. The military will have to wean itself off its dependence on jihadi proxies, as these forces have all too often grown out of control and pursued their own agendas. Many of the militant camps that the military created inside Pakistan to train forces to fight in Afghanistan and India now produce militants who want to overthrow the government in Islamabad. The military and intelligence services must also end their practice of extrajudicial killings and torture -- for example in Baluchistan, where the military has a robust targeted-killing campaign -- which only serve to harden the militants' resolve and increase the moral ambiguity between the government and the terrorists.
In his retirement message, Kayani said, "It is time for others to carry forward the mission of making Pakistan a truly democratic, prosperous and peaceful country that embodies the finest dreams our founding fathers had envisaged for us." For these dreams to become reality -- and for the war against the Pakistani Taliban and other insurgents to be won -- Pakistan's Army must move along the path of reform and abide by civil, democratic norms. Pakistan will see peace when all elements of its state work to defend the rights and lives of its citizenry -- including dissidents. In this, the Army cannot be exempt.


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## Bono

Rahil khan said:


> Funny to see some babies here representing one General as a ultimate choice and another General as Mr Transporter. In my views any one of the top Generals can serve best as a chief, but seniority should be given preference. But i wonder why the political leadership has kept their decision so secret yet. May be they are afraid of their past experiences. Only God knows what's going to happen. Fingers crossed. Let's hope for best for the army my friends.




It seems I have offended some on this forum and I would very much like to apologise to those who have been inadvertently hurt. However, I will take this opportunity in explaining my position. The discussion was about the best man for the job when picking the next Army Chief; Being a Pakistani and an interested citizen, just as you all, I too assumed the right to air my opinion on the subject. This is so because it affects us all. In the process of going through the forum I saw a lot of anomolies and felt that this forum was designed to promote an individual; I could very well be wrong but that was my perception. I do not know any one of these individauls percsonally but the unfairness of the campaign motivated me to respond. Though, just you all,I too am not an expert but my interest as well as my association with friends who are officers, juniour though they may be and the little research that I have done has led me to some conclusions. Let me lay these out for you and you can debate each and every matter that I have expressed but with reason and logic rather than an emotional outburst.

•
The job requires the best man and not the senior most. Its not a bank or a shopping plaza we are talking of but the 6th largest army of the world.
•
All lieutenant generals are equal is a silly argument, this cannot be true in any organization, heiarchies are determoned by ruthless pyramids. They are competent and capable to command coprs etc but maynot be capable to command armies. Afterall, if this were true, why are some Lieutenant generals not even given command of corps and there are many such examples in this Army too. Then these generals promoted but given corps to command should be equally fit to command an army. So I think merit will have to take precedence and this a relative matter between the ‘best’.
•
Seniority as a term lumps people into groups such the first 3, 4 or 5 depending on how many the Government would like to assess and it is not a blind seniority in numbers only. Anyone picked from such a group is within the seniority parameters established
•
Now coming to merit, without malice or prejudice towards anyone, I would strongly suggest that we simply follow whats on the net and see for ourselves. However, some pointers: when we speak of logisitics in most Armies then we must speak of the those branches which provide this service and in our Army these are Ordinance, Supply Corps, Medical Corps, Engineering etc. Officers are commissioned in these branches as in other branches as well and have career progresson just like other services. However, though logisitics remains an important component of the army, there is no slot for a lieutenant general in these branches. I hope that puts logisitcs in its right percpective. As such a general officer from the main stream is, in my percpective, ‘reduced’ to taking the post of the Chief of Logisitcs. This an appointment that cannot be compared to Chief of the General Staff, the Inspector General Training and Evaluation or a sitting Corps Commander. Now this is a fact.
•
On a relative basis, only two general of this lot have seen combat. One in a single operation involving a few battalions as a component of a plan and the other for 4 years who participated in policy designing, defining and execution. He is recognised by the rank and file. This too is a fact.
•
When we talk of the future, it is dealing with the militants, the US, the Pushtuns and the Indians, then there is only one person with experience in all fields. This too is a fact.
•
If we look at the back ground, then we must compare experiences and ERRA stints, short commands etc do not compare too well with sword of honours, gulf war experiences, fata operations, varied command experiences etc. etc and this can be looked up. This too is a fact.
•
So, without causing hurt, and with full knowledge that this forum is not the deciding factor, with respect to all our senior general officers with my confidence in our army, all I am saying is let the best man win and I truly do not care who that is. We in Pakistan also deserve the best and should not find justification where the best is always overlooked. Can we at least agree on this????

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## Devil Soul

*No internal hint at new CJCSC, COAS*

November 19, 2013
SIKANDER SHAHEEN

ISLAMABAD - Perhaps for the first time, under normal circumstances, in the army’s history, the internal announcements on disclosing the names of the two top incoming bosses are not being made beforehand in an apparent bid to maintain maximum secrecy concerning the matter.
The practice of making prior internal announcements within the relevant military circles regarding the appointments at the top army positions have regularly been followed during General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani’s stint as Chief of Army Staff (COAS). In several cases, such kind of announcements were made over a month before the related appointments were actually made, military sources informed on Monday.
Following this practice, intimations were issued to the military authorities concerned as well the media men ahead of the important military and defence appointments such as corps commanders, principal staff officers (PSO), general officers commanding (GOCs) director generals of military, defence and strategic establishments and defence attaches’.
However, the scenario involving the upcoming appointments at the chairman joint chiefs of staff committee (CJCSC) and COAS positions, according to the military sources, makes an ‘extremely extraordinary’ scenario whereby the prior intimations are withheld following the government’s decision to ‘consume maximum time,’ on this count. Lieutenant General Haroon Aslam and Lieutenant General Rashad Mehmood, the two senior most military men after General Kayani, who are, although, believed to be the expected candidates for the CJCSC and COAS posts, internal announcements in Pakistan Army to confirm their elevations have been reportedly withheld following the government’s decision to announce the new CJCSC and COAS next Thursday, just ahead of General Kayani’s retirement the next day (November 29).
“It’s unusual but you can’t say it’s unprecedented,” said a senior army officer with reference to the mystery shrouding, even in the relevant military circles, the two top appointments. “Internal announcements have not been made in pursuance of the government’s policy. When the placements on CJCSC and COAS positions will be in place, intimations will be issued accordingly.”
On the other hand, the military insiders believe, the prior intimations regarding appointments on senior military slots are not issued only in the emergency situations or unforeseen happenings involving the sudden resignations or deaths of the officers concerned.
“With just ten days remaining for Pakistan’s longest serving military chief in the civilian rule to retire, his replacement not being announced even internally (in the army) is something that never happened under ordinary circumstances.”
Also, the prior intimations are not made about the postings where the army officers are to be appointed after the grant of promotions, it was further learnt. “Because you never know who would be promoted and who would be superseded. Sometimes, senior most aspirants for the positions of two-star and three-star generals get superseded and officers who are bottom in the respective seniority lists get elevated to the next rank,” officials commented. 
In a recent conversation with this correspondent, Lieutenant General (r) Abdul Qadir Baloch said, the practice of announcing beforehand (internally) the appointee for any given slot was actively followed in the military but with certain exceptions. “I think it also depends on the circumstances or conditions. At times, the circumstances do not allow to make prior intimations on account of secrecy involving the matter. It is the discretion of army’s high command to internally announce any decision or not. Usually, there are no prior intimations for intelligence appointments.”
On the CJCSC and COAS appointments, the former general said, “The army has followed the government’s policy, which is good. It augurs well for democracy that Armed Forces act in line with the policies of political leadership.” 
Since the appointment of Pakistan’s first army chief General Sir Frank Messervy in 1947 till General Kayani, the outgoing COAS, it purportedly happened only on two occasions when military authorities were not intimated beforehand about the army chief’s appointment; during the respective deaths of General Zia-ul-Haq and General Asif Nawaz.
Haq had died in an air crash in August 1988 whereas Nawaz died of heart attack in January 1993. General Jehangir Karamat, another former army chief, had although resigned but the move was not sudden. He is said to have taken his close associates including the corps commanders and PSOs into confidence before deciding to call it quits in October 1998.
In case of General Zia-ud-Din Butt, the military authorities were not informed beforehand about his short-lived elevation to the COAS-ship, which is not recognised by the Pakistan Army. Shortly before his ouster on October 12, 1999, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif had appointed General Butt as COAS before other generals refused to serve under his command and had him removed and detained to hand Pakistan’s reign to General Pervaiz Musharraf.
No internal hint at new CJCSC, COAS


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## fatman17

Wednesday, November 20, 2013

*Pakistan *
*Pakistan Looks For The Military Man Who Can Fill Kayani's Shoes *



 Pakistan's Army chief General Ashfaq Kayani is stepping down after six years in the job.

By Abubakar Siddique
November 19, 2013

Pakistan has cast the mold it wants for its top military commander, now the government just needs to fill it. 

With General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani leaving his post as Army chief, the country's civilian leaders are seeking a successor who can mirror his style as a military man who took the fight to the militants and generally kept out of the political arena.

Islamabad is tight-lipped about who will replace Kayani, who steps down on November 29, but the choice reportedly comes down to four contenders.

Two made names for themselves fighting the Pakistani Taliban; the other two rose through the ranks by successfully navigating the military's entrenched bureaucracy.

Retired General Talat Masood says that the new Army chief must be able to lead combat operations, maintain morale and discipline, and show a commitment to working with the civilian government in power.

Ultimately, it is Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif who will decide who takes the reins. But the recommendations of top military brass, including the outgoing military chief, will carry significant weight.

Ignoring the military's endorsement comes at a great risk, as evidenced by coups d'etat that followed government decisions to handpick the Army chief in the 1970s and 1990s. Sharif himself was ousted as prime minister in 1999 after his unsuccessful attempt to appoint a protege to replace former General Pervez Musharraf as Army chief.

*Political Considerations*

According to Masood, a number of pressing political considerations will play a role in the decision.

"How is he disposed toward promoting democracy, on keeping distance [between] the army and civilian [affairs]? And to what extent has he had experience in [fighting] the insurgency will be one of the important criteria in this selection," Masood says. "Of course, the chief also has to have diplomatic skills...to negotiate with foreign armies like the U.S. Army and NATO."

The four men who are believed to be in the running to replace Kayani are all lieutenant generals.

Haroon Aslam, a former leader of Pakistan's Special Forces, led commando missions during the government's push to end the Taliban's control of the country's northwestern Swat Valley in 2009.

Tariq Khan has similar credentials, having helped defeat the Taliban in the tribal districts of South Waziristan in 2008 and Bajaur in 2009.

Rashad Mahmood and Raheel Sharif each built promising bureaucratic careers and have served in both command and staff positions, although it has been reported that neither has led troops against the Taliban.

*Seniority Could Count*

In Masood's view, Aslam's seniority, owing to his 38 years of service, gives him an advantage over the other three.

"Haroon Aslam is the senior-most," he says. "I don't see any reason why he should be passed over, because he has also got a very good record of service."

But Hamid Hussain, a New York-based writer on Pakistani military affairs, says seniority is a loosely applied rule of thumb and won't necessarily determine who becomes the next Army chief.

Hussain predicts that Aslam is more likely to be handed the largely ceremonial post of chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff committee. In theory, this would make him the most powerful military officer in Pakistan, but it is not a command post and the holder has no power to appoint senior officers.

Such a scenario would open the door for Mahmood to be named the new Army chief, according to Hussain, who suggests that there are signs Kayani was grooming the lieutenant general to be his successor.

Hussain says Mahmood has developed a good working relationship with the prime minister's brother, Shahbaz Sharif, while serving as the corps commander in Lahore in recent years.

Lahore is the capital of the eastern province of Punjab, where Shahbaz Sharif has been chief minister since 2008.

"He [Mahmood] is more formal in terms of career and his personality," says Hussain. "He is not a vocal or aggressive type of person. He just follows the norms and the routines, so the Sharifs may feel comfortable and not threatened because he may not be assertive and won't be pushing them around too much."

*Dark-Horse Candidate*

According to Hussain, there is little chance of Lieutenant General Raheel Sharif being appointed, because he is not seen as a strong enough commander.

Tariq Khan, on the other hand, could be considered a dark-horse candidate.

Over the course of his 36-year military career, he has commanded successful missions against militants and is reportedly an outspoken advocate of eliminating terrorists on Pakistani soil.

"The person who is clear in his mind that this [terrorism] is an existential threat is General Tariq Khan," says Hussain. "He is clear in his mind about what to do about it. So, in that capacity, among all the four, he will be the best choice. For the next three-year tenure of the Army chief, proactive military action will most likely be needed. And for that reason he will probably be the right person."

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## SBD-3




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## XYON

It is utterly STUPID & NONSENSICAL on part of Nawaz Sharif to wait for the current Chief to leave office before he names the next one. Professional Armies have successors announced well ahead in time to ensure a smooth transition and let the outgoing Chief be given a becoming farewell by the incoming Chief.

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## SBD-3

XYON said:


> It is utterly STUPID & NONSENSICAL on part of Nawaz Sharif to wait for the current Chief to leave office before he names the next one. _Professional Armies have successors announced well ahead in time to ensure a smooth transition and let the outgoing Chief be given a becoming farewell by the incoming Chief._


But is there a precedent of doing so in Pakistan army?


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## Rafael

It has to be Tariq Khan or Haroon Aslam.

We are at war and can ill-afford a peace time General.


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## Slav Defence

Tariq Khan and Zaheer ul Islam,I like both of these two.I will prefer,however Tariq Khan as next Army Chief.

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## fatman17

Slav Defence said:


> Tariq Khan and Zaheer ul Islam,I like both of these two.I will prefer,however Tariq Khan as next Army Chief.


 
sometimes the most logical decisions are never made. its going to happen here too.

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## mave

fatman17 said:


> sometimes the most logical decisions are never made. its going to happen here too.



Well if this is gonna happen, then Pakistan forces, government and the Pakistani people all will be in trouble even the out going Chief and i think he knows and everybody knows this. So the logical decision has to be taken, this is no time for any clown.

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## Strongman

Correct!!


mave said:


> Well if this is gonna happen, then Pakistan forces, government and the Pakistani people all will be in trouble even the out going Chief and i think he knows and everybody knows this. So the logical decision has to be taken, this is no time for any clown.


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## mave

Slav Defence said:


> Tariq Khan and Zaheer ul Islam,I like both of these two.I will prefer,however Tariq Khan as next Army Chief.



Here you go good combination General Tariq Khan as COAS and General Zaheer ul Islam as DGI.

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## SBD-3

Rafael said:


> It has to be Tariq Khan or Haroon Aslam.
> 
> We are at war and can ill-afford a *peace time General*.


What is a peace time general and a war time general?

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## mave

hasnain0099 said:


> What is a peace time general and a war time general?



@hasnain0099 A very good question.

And I really do not understand how can they even compare a Commander with a CLS.

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## Zeeshan S.

*Pakistan Looks For The Military Man Who Can Fill Kayani's Shoes*

*




*

Pakistan has cast the mold it wants for its top military commander, now the government just needs to fill it. 

With General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani leaving his post as Army chief, the country's civilian leaders are seeking a successor who can mirror his style as a military man who took the fight to the militants and generally kept out of the political arena.

Islamabad is tight-lipped about who will replace Kayani, who steps down on November 29, but the choice reportedly comes down to four contenders.

Two made names for themselves fighting the Pakistani Taliban; the other two rose through the ranks by successfully navigating the military's entrenched bureaucracy.

Retired General Talat Masood says that the new Army chief must be able to lead combat operations, maintain morale and discipline, and show a commitment to working with the civilian government in power.

Ultimately, it is Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif who will decide who takes the reins. But the recommendations of top military brass, including the outgoing military chief, will carry significant weight.

Ignoring the military's endorsement comes at a great risk, as evidenced by coups d'etat that followed government decisions to handpick the Army chief in the 1970s and 1990s. Sharif himself was ousted as prime minister in 1999 after his unsuccessful attempt to appoint a protege to replace former General Pervez Musharraf as Army chief.

*Political Considerations*

According to Masood, a number of pressing political considerations will play a role in the decision.

"How is he disposed toward promoting democracy, on keeping distance [between] the army and civilian [affairs]? And to what extent has he had experience in [fighting] the insurgency will be one of the important criteria in this selection," Masood says. "Of course, the chief also has to have diplomatic skills...to negotiate with foreign armies like the U.S. Army and NATO."

The four men who are believed to be in the running to replace Kayani are all lieutenant generals.

Haroon Aslam, a former leader of Pakistan's Special Forces, led commando missions during the government's push to end the Taliban's control of the country's northwestern Swat Valley in 2009.

Tariq Khan has similar credentials, having helped defeat the Taliban in the tribal districts of South Waziristan in 2008 and Bajaur in 2009.

Rashad Mahmood and Raheel Sharif each built promising bureaucratic careers and have served in both command and staff positions, although it has been reported that neither has led troops against the Taliban.

*Seniority Could Count*

In Masood's view, Aslam's seniority, owing to his 38 years of service, gives him an advantage over the other three.

"Haroon Aslam is the senior-most," he says. "I don't see any reason why he should be passed over, because he has also got a very good record of service."

But Hamid Hussain, a New York-based writer on Pakistani military affairs, says seniority is a loosely applied rule of thumb and won't necessarily determine who becomes the next Army chief.

Hussain predicts that Aslam is more likely to be handed the largely ceremonial post of chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff committee. In theory, this would make him the most powerful military officer in Pakistan, but it is not a command post and the holder has no power to appoint senior officers.

Such a scenario would open the door for Mahmood to be named the new Army chief, according to Hussain, who suggests that there are signs Kayani was grooming the lieutenant general to be his successor.

Hussain says Mahmood has developed a good working relationship with the prime minister's brother, Shahbaz Sharif, while serving as the corps commander in Lahore in recent years.

Lahore is the capital of the eastern province of Punjab, where Shahbaz Sharif has been chief minister since 2008.

"He [Mahmood] is more formal in terms of career and his personality," says Hussain. "He is not a vocal or aggressive type of person. He just follows the norms and the routines, so the Sharifs may feel comfortable and not threatened because he may not be assertive and won't be pushing them around too much."

*Dark-Horse Candidate*

According to Hussain, there is little chance of Lieutenant General Raheel Sharif being appointed, because he is not seen as a strong enough commander.

Tariq Khan, on the other hand, could be considered a dark-horse candidate.

Over the course of his 36-year military career, he has commanded successful missions against militants and is reportedly an outspoken advocate of eliminating terrorists on Pakistani soil.

"The person who is clear in his mind that this [terrorism] is an existential threat is General Tariq Khan," says Hussain. "He is clear in his mind about what to do about it. So, in that capacity, among all the four, he will be the best choice. For the next three-year tenure of the Army chief, proactive military action will most likely be needed. And for that reason he will probably be the right person."


Pakistan Looks For The Military Man Who Can Fill Kayani's Shoes


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## Rahil khan

* Nawaz Sharif and the Generals *
* “Civilian Supremacy is at the top of Nawaz Sharif’s mind as he decides to initiate a treason case against Pervez Musharraf and looks for a successor to Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.” *
Azaz Syed 

*A Twist of Fate *
On June 5th, a unit of 111 Brigade welcomed Nawaz Sharif and family back into the power echelons almost an hour after Mr. Sharif took oath from President Asif Ali Zardari and became prime minister for an unprecedented third time. It was a bittersweet twist of fate for Mr. Sharif. Almost 14 years ago, he was dethroned from power by the same 111 Brigade, which at that time was led by Brigadier Salahuddin Satti, who later retired as a Lt. General and served an ambassadorial term.

Earlier, at the Presidency, people noticed that Mr. Sharif had a serious look as he met President Zardari, who made an extra effort to showcase his characteristic Cheshire smile. Mr. Sharif maintained the same air of seriousness as he met Gen. Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani, the army chief. “He just exchanged hands, with no proper smile on his face,” said an eyewitness to the meeting between Mr. Sharif and Gen. Kayani, requesting anonymity. This was not the first time when Mr. Sharif indicated that he wants his relationship with the top military generals within the constitutional limits.
*
An Incident of the Past*

Mr. Sharif sent a similar message to Gen. Kayani loud and clear, outlining his preference that the relationship between him and the army chief will remain strictly within the confines of constitution and government protocols.

In the winter of 2009, soon after the disclosure that Shahbaz Sharif and Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan had secretly met with Gen. Kayani twice, a messenger from Gen. Kayani tried to arrange a meeting between the army chief and Mr. Sharif. According to sources, Mr. Sharif, with an expressionless face, posed a question to the messenger: “Does the army chief have prime minister’s approval?”

The messenger had no answer to this unnerving question and went back to Rawalpindi. After a couple of days, a similar message was again sent across. This time Gen. Kayani had requested permission to visit Raiwind. This message got a similar, disapproving response. 

The army chief should route through the prime minister if he wants a meeting, Mr. Sharif told his political aides. After spending time in exile, reminiscing over the mistakes he made prior to the 1999 military coup, Mr. Sharif seems to have come of age. He is convinced that he erred in maintaining contacts with Pervez Musharraf, who was corps commander Mangla before his elevation as the army chief. A retired senior military officer, however, gave an entirely different account of the reason Gen. Kayani wanted to meet Mr. Sharif. “A retired Pakistani diplomat had a meeting with Hasan Nawaz, the son of Mr. Sharif, in London. He said that Gen. Kayani met with Shahbaz Sharif several times but never contacted us. This complaint prompted Gen. Kayani to take the initiative to try to meet with Nawaz Sharif,” the retired military official said.
*
The State of Affairs Now*

After the first civilian transition of power in the country’s history in June, everything appears normal between Mr. Sharif and the army chief. However, Gen. Kayani is known to have exhibited his reservations towards Mr. Sharif in the past.

“Nawaz Sharif and Gen. Kayani have very good relations,” said Senator Pervaiz Rashid, the federal minister for information, in an interview with PIQUE. “The credit of a smooth transition of power goes to all stakeholders.” As the minister of information, it is the job of Mr. Rashid to gloss things over.

The fact is that Mr. Sharif has passed strict instructions that ‘no cabinet member will visit the General Headquarters or meet with any senior army officer without the prior consent of the Prime Minister”, according to sources.


Mr. Sharif has also decided to keep the portfolio of ministry of defense. He wants to further strengthen the Defense Committee of the Cabinet and the office of the National Security Advisor. He has made it clear that he wants to uphold civilian supremacy.

*The Toughest Decision *

Soon after the honeymoon period of assuming power comes to a close, Mr. Sharif has to make the toughest decision of his tenure. Gen. Kayani retires in November and the question of his successor is of paramount importance. It is highly unlikely that Gen. Kayani will get another extension, according to sources. Some people believe Mr. Sharif will announce the successor to the current army chief far earlier, as he had done in the case of Gen. Asif Nawaz, who took over from Gen. Mirza Aslam Beg in 1991. According to government rules and regulations, the Ministry of Defense provides names of three senior most generals for the coveted post of the army chief.

Sources claim that the Prime Minister intends to remove Lt Gen (r) Asif Yasin Malik, the current secretary of defense, before he makes up his mind on the next army chief. Gen. Malik is a trusted aide to Gen. Kayani and has earlier served as Corps Commander, Peshawar and Deputy D.G in the ISI. Mr. Rashid, the information minister, however denies that the prime minister intends to remove Gen. Malik. “There is no need for such a change,” he said.

*Who will become the next ARMY CHIEF?*

On June 20th, Gen. Kayani visited South Waziristan. A group of journalists also accompanied him from Islamabad. When this reporter asked Gen. Kayani if he plans to take another extension from the civilian government, the army chief refused to answer and quickly walked away, without uttering a single word.

After Gen. Kayani retires in November, the three senior most Lt. Generals in the army are in the run to become the Chief of Army Staff. The doves and hawks in Mr. Sharif’s kitchen cabinet have already started deliberating on the pros and cons of each of the three Lt. Generals. Lt. Gen Haroon Aslam, the senior most general, is a Special Services Group Commando. He is known as ‘a dashing officer’ and has to his credit leading the Swat military operation. Incidentally, Pervez Musharraf was also from the SSG group. It remains a moot question if Nawaz Sharif would be comfortable with yet another Commando general. PML-N has already announced that it will follow the seniority list. But in the power corridors, nothing is as obvious as it seems. “We will follow the principle of seniority, unless there is a big reason otherwise,” Senator Rashid, the Information Minister, said in his exclusive interview for PIQUE in his chamber at Parliament House recently.

*T*he second senior most officer is Lt. General Rashad Mehmood, currently serving as the powerful Chief of General Staff at the GHQ, Rawalpindi. He has the reputation of being a reserved officer. He is also known as a patient listener and less talkative. In many ways, he is like General Kayani.

According to sources, Lt Gen. Rashad Mehmood is the preference of Gen. Kayani for the new army chief. Historically, most of the CGS went on to become the army chiefs. Gen. Asif Nawaz was CGS before he was elevated to become the army chief. Similarly, Gen. Waheed Kakar chose his CGS, Lt. Gen Jahangir Karamat, to become the army chief.

*If Nawaz Sharif follows this military tradition then Lt.General Rashid Mahmood should become the Army Chief after Gen. Kayani completes his second extension. Interestingly, many at the GHQ have already started giving Gen. Mehmood an unannounced protocol and respect as the next chief.* The third most senior officer in is Lt.Gen Raheel Sharif. He is the brother of Maj. Shabir Sharif, a martyr and war hero of 1965. Lt. Gen Sharif is a resident of Model Town Lahore and, therefore, a neighbor of the Sharifs. However, sources say his chances are very bleak and only sheer luck can push him as the new army chief.

There are two dark horses in the race: Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan, currently serving as Corps Commander, Mangla; Lt. Gen Zahirul Islam, the Director General of Inter-Services Intelligence Diectorate.

*Who will Nawaz consult ?*

Mr. Sharif has a habit of holding wide-ranging consultations. But on a matter as delicate and as fateful as the new army chief, he is expected to proceed with utmost caution. “Prime Minister may, and he should, form a committee for the final selection of the new army chief. Seniority should be given importance because whenever it is violated in the past, country faced crisis,” said Gen.Zia ud Din Khawaja a close aide of Nawaz Sharif and former ISI chief whose controversial appointment as the army chief in 1999 led to the military coup. Sources claim that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is most likely to make his final decision after deliberating and consulting with his brother Shahbaz Sharif and relative Ishaq Dar, the finance minister. Lt. Gen Rashad Mehmood is most likely to succeed but sources say Lt. Gen. Haroon Aslam might pull a surprise. 

*Was Kayani onboard?*

On June 24, Mr. Sharif announced that his government will initiate a treason case against Gen. Musharraf. “Musharraf has to answer for his acts,” Mr. Sharif said in a speech to the national assembly.

Immediately, there were concerns about an impending clash with the military. After all, no military dictator of the past has had to answer for his transgressions and violations of the constitution. Within the ranks, however, there is unease over the way Gen. Musharraf has been treated by the courts. The sight of a former army chief dragged through the courts is unacceptable to many. Gen. Musharraf has resisted efforts to make a deal and go back into exile.

In a recent Corps Commanders’ meeting, one of the senior corps commanders was heavily critical of the way Gen. Musharraf was being treated, according to highly placed sources. Gen. Kayani, however, overruled his objections.

Pervaiz Rashid, the information minister, said the decision to try Gen. Musharraf under art. 6 of the constitution was unanimously taken by the civilian and military leadership.

“Everyone has taken oath under the constitution,” Mr. Rashid, the information minister said. “Everyone understands that the solution of all problems lies in the implementation of the constitution.”

_The writer is an investigative journalist based in Islamabad._

*Nawaz Sharif and the Generals*


----------



## Rain Forest

Rahil khan said:


> * Nawaz Sharif and the Generals *
> * “Civilian Supremacy is at the top of Nawaz Sharif’s mind as he decides to initiate a treason case against Pervez Musharraf and looks for a successor to Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.” *
> Azaz Syed
> 
> *A Twist of Fate *
> On June 5th, a unit of 111 Brigade welcomed Nawaz Sharif and family back into the power echelons almost an hour after Mr. Sharif took oath from President Asif Ali Zardari and became prime minister for an unprecedented third time. It was a bittersweet twist of fate for Mr. Sharif. Almost 14 years ago, he was dethroned from power by the same 111 Brigade, which at that time was led by Brigadier Salahuddin Satti, who later retired as a Lt. General and served an ambassadorial term.
> 
> Earlier, at the Presidency, people noticed that Mr. Sharif had a serious look as he met President Zardari, who made an extra effort to showcase his characteristic Cheshire smile. Mr. Sharif maintained the same air of seriousness as he met Gen. Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani, the army chief. “He just exchanged hands, with no proper smile on his face,” said an eyewitness to the meeting between Mr. Sharif and Gen. Kayani, requesting anonymity. This was not the first time when Mr. Sharif indicated that he wants his relationship with the top military generals within the constitutional limits.
> *An Incident of the Past*
> 
> Mr. Sharif sent a similar message to Gen. Kayani loud and clear, outlining his preference that the relationship between him and the army chief will remain strictly within the confines of constitution and government protocols.
> 
> In the winter of 2009, soon after the disclosure that Shahbaz Sharif and Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan had secretly met with Gen. Kayani twice, a messenger from Gen. Kayani tried to arrange a meeting between the army chief and Mr. Sharif. According to sources, Mr. Sharif, with an expressionless face, posed a question to the messenger: “Does the army chief have prime minister’s approval?”
> 
> The messenger had no answer to this unnerving question and went back to Rawalpindi. After a couple of days, a similar message was again sent across. This time Gen. Kayani had requested permission to visit Raiwind. This message got a similar, disapproving response.
> 
> The army chief should route through the prime minister if he wants a meeting, Mr. Sharif told his political aides. After spending time in exile, reminiscing over the mistakes he made prior to the 1999 military coup, Mr. Sharif seems to have come of age. He is convinced that he erred in maintaining contacts with Pervez Musharraf, who was corps commander Mangla before his elevation as the army chief. A retired senior military officer, however, gave an entirely different account of the reason Gen. Kayani wanted to meet Mr. Sharif. “A retired Pakistani diplomat had a meeting with Hasan Nawaz, the son of Mr. Sharif, in London. He said that Gen. Kayani met with Shahbaz Sharif several times but never contacted us. This complaint prompted Gen. Kayani to take the initiative to try to meet with Nawaz Sharif,” the retired military official said.
> *The State of Affairs Now*
> 
> After the first civilian transition of power in the country’s history in June, everything appears normal between Mr. Sharif and the army chief. However, Gen. Kayani is known to have exhibited his reservations towards Mr. Sharif in the past.
> 
> “Nawaz Sharif and Gen. Kayani have very good relations,” said Senator Pervaiz Rashid, the federal minister for information, in an interview with PIQUE. “The credit of a smooth transition of power goes to all stakeholders.” As the minister of information, it is the job of Mr. Rashid to gloss things over.
> 
> The fact is that Mr. Sharif has passed strict instructions that ‘no cabinet member will visit the General Headquarters or meet with any senior army officer without the prior consent of the Prime Minister”, according to sources.
> 
> 
> Mr. Sharif has also decided to keep the portfolio of ministry of defense. He wants to further strengthen the Defense Committee of the Cabinet and the office of the National Security Advisor. He has made it clear that he wants to uphold civilian supremacy.
> 
> *The Toughest Decision *
> 
> Soon after the honeymoon period of assuming power comes to a close, Mr. Sharif has to make the toughest decision of his tenure. Gen. Kayani retires in November and the question of his successor is of paramount importance. It is highly unlikely that Gen. Kayani will get another extension, according to sources. Some people believe Mr. Sharif will announce the successor to the current army chief far earlier, as he had done in the case of Gen. Asif Nawaz, who took over from Gen. Mirza Aslam Beg in 1991. According to government rules and regulations, the Ministry of Defense provides names of three senior most generals for the coveted post of the army chief.
> 
> Sources claim that the Prime Minister intends to remove Lt Gen (r) Asif Yasin Malik, the current secretary of defense, before he makes up his mind on the next army chief. Gen. Malik is a trusted aide to Gen. Kayani and has earlier served as Corps Commander, Peshawar and Deputy D.G in the ISI. Mr. Rashid, the information minister, however denies that the prime minister intends to remove Gen. Malik. “There is no need for such a change,” he said.
> 
> *Who will become the next ARMY CHIEF?*
> 
> On June 20th, Gen. Kayani visited South Waziristan. A group of journalists also accompanied him from Islamabad. When this reporter asked Gen. Kayani if he plans to take another extension from the civilian government, the army chief refused to answer and quickly walked away, without uttering a single word.
> 
> After Gen. Kayani retires in November, the three senior most Lt. Generals in the army are in the run to become the Chief of Army Staff. The doves and hawks in Mr. Sharif’s kitchen cabinet have already started deliberating on the pros and cons of each of the three Lt. Generals. Lt. Gen Haroon Aslam, the senior most general, is a Special Services Group Commando. He is known as ‘a dashing officer’ and has to his credit leading the Swat military operation. Incidentally, Pervez Musharraf was also from the SSG group. It remains a moot question if Nawaz Sharif would be comfortable with yet another Commando general. PML-N has already announced that it will follow the seniority list. But in the power corridors, nothing is as obvious as it seems. “We will follow the principle of seniority, unless there is a big reason otherwise,” Senator Rashid, the Information Minister, said in his exclusive interview for PIQUE in his chamber at Parliament House recently.
> 
> *T*he second senior most officer is Lt. General Rashad Mehmood, currently serving as the powerful Chief of General Staff at the GHQ, Rawalpindi. He has the reputation of being a reserved officer. He is also known as a patient listener and less talkative. In many ways, he is like General Kayani.
> 
> According to sources, Lt Gen. Rashad Mehmood is the preference of Gen. Kayani for the new army chief. Historically, most of the CGS went on to become the army chiefs. Gen. Asif Nawaz was CGS before he was elevated to become the army chief. Similarly, Gen. Waheed Kakar chose his CGS, Lt. Gen Jahangir Karamat, to become the army chief.
> 
> *If Nawaz Sharif follows this military tradition then Lt.General Rashid Mahmood should become the Army Chief after Gen. Kayani completes his second extension. Interestingly, many at the GHQ have already started giving Gen. Mehmood an unannounced protocol and respect as the next chief.* The third most senior officer in is Lt.Gen Raheel Sharif. He is the brother of Maj. Shabir Sharif, a martyr and war hero of 1965. Lt. Gen Sharif is a resident of Model Town Lahore and, therefore, a neighbor of the Sharifs. However, sources say his chances are very bleak and only sheer luck can push him as the new army chief.
> 
> There are two dark horses in the race: Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan, currently serving as Corps Commander, Mangla; Lt. Gen Zahirul Islam, the Director General of Inter-Services Intelligence Diectorate.
> 
> *Who will Nawaz consult ?*
> 
> Mr. Sharif has a habit of holding wide-ranging consultations. But on a matter as delicate and as fateful as the new army chief, he is expected to proceed with utmost caution. “Prime Minister may, and he should, form a committee for the final selection of the new army chief. Seniority should be given importance because whenever it is violated in the past, country faced crisis,” said Gen.Zia ud Din Khawaja a close aide of Nawaz Sharif and former ISI chief whose controversial appointment as the army chief in 1999 led to the military coup. Sources claim that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is most likely to make his final decision after deliberating and consulting with his brother Shahbaz Sharif and relative Ishaq Dar, the finance minister. Lt. Gen Rashad Mehmood is most likely to succeed but sources say Lt. Gen. Haroon Aslam might pull a surprise.
> 
> *Was Kayani onboard?*
> 
> On June 24, Mr. Sharif announced that his government will initiate a treason case against Gen. Musharraf. “Musharraf has to answer for his acts,” Mr. Sharif said in a speech to the national assembly.
> 
> Immediately, there were concerns about an impending clash with the military. After all, no military dictator of the past has had to answer for his transgressions and violations of the constitution. Within the ranks, however, there is unease over the way Gen. Musharraf has been treated by the courts. The sight of a former army chief dragged through the courts is unacceptable to many. Gen. Musharraf has resisted efforts to make a deal and go back into exile.
> 
> In a recent Corps Commanders’ meeting, one of the senior corps commanders was heavily critical of the way Gen. Musharraf was being treated, according to highly placed sources. Gen. Kayani, however, overruled his objections.
> 
> Pervaiz Rashid, the information minister, said the decision to try Gen. Musharraf under art. 6 of the constitution was unanimously taken by the civilian and military leadership.
> 
> “Everyone has taken oath under the constitution,” Mr. Rashid, the information minister said. “Everyone understands that the solution of all problems lies in the implementation of the constitution.”
> 
> _The writer is an investigative journalist based in Islamabad._
> 
> *Nawaz Sharif and the Generals*



*One Important thing that Nawaz Sharif has to learn with the Time and i hope he has if not too bad for him. NOT TO TAKE PANGA and if he does with anyone of these he will be sorted again, so does not matter whoever it is just do not take PANGA.*


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## XYON

hasnain0099 said:


> But is there a precedent of doing so in Pakistan army?



Gen Musharraf handing over COAS position (and the cane) to Gen Kayani happened 6 years ago in a very well arranged and media covered formal function!


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## SBD-3

XYON said:


> Gen Musharraf handing over COAS position (and the cane) to Gen Kayani happened 6 years ago in a very well arranged and media covered formal function!


Same will also happen this time if its an institutional tradition. Do you think that Gen Kayani wouldn't know the next COAS when the final candidates list (3 Most suitable contenders) forwarded to PM is prepared by COAS?


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## XYON

hasnain0099 said:


> Same will also happen this time if its an institutional tradition. Do you think that Gen Kayani wouldn't know the next COAS when the final candidates list (3 Most suitable contenders) forwarded to PM is prepared by COAS?



Gen Musharraf had hand picked Gen Kayani to succeed his position. The decision was taken much earlier and the transition took its natural course. In this case Gen Kayani does not necessarily know who is the next COAS. That decision lies with Nawaz Sharif who idiotically is waiting for the actual expiry date of the current COAS. Gene Kayani may hand over the cane to whoever is the next COAS on the given day and during the ceremony, but he most certainly will not be in a position to ensure the smooth transition phase because he will be in his CV's sipping the good stuff!


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## Imran Khan

koi mard ka bacha banana pichli baar bhi female ban gai thi


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## Saleem

Imran Khan said:


> koi mard ka bacha banana pichli baar bhi female ban gai thi


 I will amend my previous statements
the next COAS will be john christopher krishnan gopalaswamy.....


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## Rahil khan

Imran Khan said:


> koi mard ka bacha banana pichli baar bhi female ban gai thi


Imran bhai kaisi baat kartay hen yaar?? Why some senior members here appears to be so much mad on him??

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## SBD-3

XYON said:


> Gen Musharraf had hand picked Gen Kayani to succeed his position. The decision was taken much earlier and the transition took its natural course. In this case Gen Kayani does not necessarily know who is the next COAS. *That decision lies with Nawaz Sharif *who idiotically is waiting for the actual expiry date of the current COAS. Gene Kayani may hand over the cane to whoever is the next COAS on the given day and during the ceremony, but he most certainly will not be in a position to ensure the smooth transition phase because he will be in his CV's sipping the good stuff!


Again the choice was much easier for Musharraf since he was enjoying both offices. So there wasn't really a point for him not knowing his successor. However, Nawaz Sharif is not General Nawaz Sharif+President Nawaz Sharif. So the due process will have to be fulfilled.


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## asad71

XYON said:


> Gen Musharraf had hand picked Gen Kayani to succeed his position. The decision was taken much earlier and the transition took its natural course. In this case Gen Kayani does not necessarily know who is the next COAS. That decision lies with Nawaz Sharif who idiotically is waiting for the actual expiry date of the current COAS. Gene Kayani may hand over the cane to whoever is the next COAS on the given day and during the ceremony, but he most certainly will not be in a position to ensure the smooth transition phase because he will be in his CV's sipping the good stuff!




Yep, some transition time would have been useful for such an important change. It's always healthy to do that.

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## khan zarrar

Should be Lt. General Tariq Khan



asad71 said:


> Yep, some transition time would have been useful for such an important change. It's always healthy to do that.

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## SBD-3

4 Kings & the Wild Card | The Express Tribune Labs


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## A.Rafay

Imran Khan said:


> koi mard ka bacha banana pichli baar bhi female ban gai thi


You mean shemale? Thats why all talk no action!

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## Imran Khan

Rahil khan said:


> Imran bhai kaisi baat kartay hen yaar?? Why some senior members here appears to be so much mad on him??


اور کیا کہیں ایسے بندے کو جس نے گھتنوں پر لا کھڑا کیا ملک ؟ 7 سال سے ایک ایکٹیو آرمڈ یو اے وی نہین لا پائے میدنا میں جو ؟


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## niaz

Decision about right man for the right job is not easy. Long time ago, I was participant in ‘Effective Supervision Course’ for budding young managers in Esso. What came out was that best executive was neither the one who performed his functions efficiently but went by the book. Nor someone of exceptional ability but who couldn’t care less about authority because he thought he knew better that his superiors.

Most people in corporate life or in the military would obey whosoever is in the authority. But a leader should be someone who has ambition, drive and courage as well magnanimity to accept consequences of incorrect decisions instead of passing the buck to a junior.

Naturally the judgement is always subjective, but correct choice of Chief of the Army is so critical that incorrect choice could mean the difference between life and death of the State of Pakistan.

While we don’t want another gung-ho general like Musharraf who is willing to take on a Kargil like adventure without fully visualizing the consequences; we definitely wouldn’t want a mediocre general who‘s main qualification is that he has no black marks on his career sheet.

I don’t know any of the generals but I would go for the youngest with combat experience against Taliban.

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## CENTCOM

We are looking forward to working with the new Pakistani Chief of Army Staff, whomever steps in after General Kiyani's retirement. We support the Pakistani Security Forces and its leadership in reaching our common goal of establishing peace and stability in a region torn by the plague of terrorism. The military and civilian leadership of both our countries well understand the importance of working together to build mutual trust, overcome differences and improve cooperation among our nations.

Haroon Ahmad
DET - U.S. Central Command
United States Central Command - Urdu - MacDill Air Force Base, FL - Government Organization | Facebook

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## Armstrong

I wish its Tariq Khan !

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## Farah Sohail

CENTCOM said:


> We are looking forward to working with the new Pakistani Chief of Army Staff, whomever steps in after General Kiyani's retirement. We support the Pakistani Security Forces and its leadership in reaching our common goal of establishing peace and stability in a region torn by the plague of terrorism. The military and civilian leadership of both our countries well understand the importance of working together to build mutual trust, overcome differences and improve cooperation among our nations.
> 
> Haroon Ahmad
> DET - U.S. Central Command
> United States Central Command - Urdu - MacDill Air Force Base, FL - Government Organization | Facebook



Just shut up CENTCOM.. Unfortunately ppl here on this forum are not the govt of Pak...hence we are least bothered abt what u say..Nor do we take ur words seriously....U surely want to build a relationship of mutual trust, and improve cooperation with Pakistan by increasing drone theatre in Pak and start drones in Hangu- KPK province of Pak. ... Yea, we believe u ...right...so plzz keep these words to yourself.. Dont waste yours and our time.. We dont need to waste our time reading your useless posts..

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## Viking 63

Man this suspense is killing me !!!

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## Edevelop

Armstrong said:


> I wish its Tariq Khan !



Tariq Khan is one of those who you don't see in Pak Army very often. 'A real tough guy', however, there are some pros and cons to this as well.

Obviously due to his experience, you can tell he can take down terrorists. I mean the most notable Bajur Operation was his lead and i don't think anyone can have any doubt in his capabilities.

Lets be precise and not take general headlines into confidence for a moment. After all not every human being is 'perfect'.

General (R) Masood says that besides Commanding, you need to have Diplomatic skills to negotiate with NATO and other Western counterparts. This will be particularly important when we have to deal with Afghans. Recalling the fact that he (Tariq) was once a trainee in the U.S, the question of 'loyalty' should (in my view) arise. We have seen these things in the past as well. Musharraf was literally a lapdog of the U.S and fighting war against terrorism was a policy which was foreign influenced. As historical facts are to be taken into consideration, the people of Pakistan were right on their part to oppose this. As we speak, none of the 9/11 hijackers were from Pakistan. We certainly don't want another blunder in the up coming years therefore a choice of a person with 'best' capabilities in commanding and diplomatic skills is absolutley necessary.

There was an article published on 'next army chief' few days back, (probably posted here) in which it clearly mentioned an instance where he (Tariq) was a critique of Kayani in Core Commander meetings when it came to dealing with the Civilian Government. This is an issue for the Nawaz Government who most definitely has take into consideration of the one who is loyal to democratic norms. If they have knowledge of this whole background then you can wave your beloved Tariq Khan Khudafiz.

I like the concept of having both the Army Chief and the Chariman Joint Chief of Staff. It is a safe play. I would personally put the fighting General Haroon Aslam as CoS and the quiet diplomatic General Rashid Mehmood as CJCoS. Seniority is the way to go. Unlike Musharraf and Zia, they have moved up due to merit and they created their image due to course of actions favorable to Pakistani Public.

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## jaibi

I've heard wonders about Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan, he seems to be the best man for the job!

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## Nassr

Apparently, it has been decided that the next COAS will be Gen Rashid, the current CGS.


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## Alpha1

jaibi said:


> I've heard wonders about Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan, he seems to be the best man for the job!


same here, even the biggest critics have said words of praise for him

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## mitth

New COAS Gen. Haroon Aslam Best Option


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## BATMAN

jaibi said:


> I've heard wonders about Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan, he seems to be the best man for the job!



Share with us?

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## Sugarcane

Looks like NS is afraid and will return back once new "Sharif" Chief is settled

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## jaibi

Haven't you read the interview I did with an Army officer who was a part of the operations in KPK? It's stated over there as well. 

Basically, he's a blunt, straightforward man. He likes to be with his men on the frontlines. In planning he involves the opinions of all levels of command. He's also very pro-Pakistani, literally! He was behind getting NATO supplies suspended after NATO forces attacked the Pakistani soldiers and the US had to launch and investigation and issue an apology. Where else would you find such a guy? He did this while he was fighting the Talibs! 


BATMAN said:


> Share with us?


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## mitth

Gen. Shabir Sharif Also Best Option.


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## Rahil khan

Nassr said:


> Apparently, it has been decided that the next COAS will be Gen Rashid, the current CGS.


I predict the same.


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## Nassr

Rahil khan said:


> I predict the same.


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## Kompromat

http://labs.tribune.com.pk/four-kings/profile-rm.html?v=2

http://labs.tribune.com.pk/four-kings/profile-rs.html?v=2


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## SBD-3

Farah Sohail said:


> Just shut up CENTCOM.. Unfortunately ppl here on this forum are not the govt of Pak...hence we are least bothered abt what u say..Nor do we take ur words seriously....U surely want to build a relationship of mutual trust, and improve cooperation with Pakistan by increasing drone theatre in Pak and start drones in Hangu- KPK province of Pak. ... Yea, we believe u ...right...so plzz keep these words to yourself.. Dont waste yours and our time.. We dont need to waste our time reading your useless posts..


But apparently you did "waste" your time in reading his post.....

Looks like General Rashid or Raheel Sharif are amongst the final contenders. General Haroon Aslam is sure for CJCSC


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## Areesh

No chance of General Haroon and General Tariq becoming army chief. Ganjai mian would prefer someone who is "shareef" like him and won't create any troubles for his govt for the next few years. 

It doesn't matter if Pakistan needs General Haroon or General Tariq due to their experience in fight against militants and extremists.


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## Rain Forest



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## SBD-3

Rain Forest said:


> View attachment 10819


 what a level of intellect! Must commend the maker of this picture. Shows how twisted our population is  If nobel prize for conspiracy theory making would have been there evey year it would have been won by either a Pakistani or an Indian.
And yes you forgot to mention one thing, first two were responsible for breaking Pakistan while the later two responsible for selling the leftover to US.


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## BATMAN

jaibi said:


> Haven't you read the interview I did with an Army officer who was a part of the operations in KPK? It's stated over there as well.
> 
> Basically, he's a blunt, straightforward man. He likes to be with his men on the frontlines. In planning he involves the opinions of all levels of command. He's also very pro-Pakistani, literally! He was behind getting NATO supplies suspended after NATO forces attacked the Pakistani soldiers and the US had to launch and investigation and issue an apology. Where else would you find such a guy? He did this while he was fighting the Talibs!



Where is that interview? are you a journalist?
Suspension of NATO supplies was a hint by army to tell the public, how many ways politicians get fund transferred to their foreign accounts.
In the same way, the idea of shooting drone by 3 different weapons, was to hint how ugly and complicit all politicians and there supporters are.

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## Xeric

4 Kings & the Wild Card | The Express Tribune Labs


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## SQ8

BATMAN said:


> Where is that interview? are you a journalist?
> Suspension of NATO supplies was a hint by army to tell the public, how many ways politicians get fund transferred to their foreign accounts.
> In the same way, the idea of shooting drone by 3 different weapons, was to hint how ugly and complicit all politicians and there supporters are.



Where does it say that only journalists can take interviews? There are more interviews taken by non-journalists for information purposes all over the world than journalists combined.. bad way to try and shoot the messenger when you cant even get the shot right. 

The rest of your post sounds disconnect. By what possible x is to y connection did you come up with the army's suspension of supplies after Salala have anything to do with highlighting corruption?

The Shooting of the drones has much more to do with state and political consensus on it.. and then the possible fecal storm that will rise if you do shoot one down.


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## BATMAN

Oscar said:


> Where does it say that only journalists can take interviews? There are more interviews taken by non-journalists for information purposes all over the world than journalists combined.. bad way to try and shoot the messenger when you cant even get the shot right.
> 
> The rest of your post sounds disconnect. By what possible x is to y connection did you come up with the army's suspension of supplies after Salala have anything to do with highlighting corruption?
> 
> The Shooting of the drones has much more to do with state and political consensus on it.. and then the possible fecal storm that will rise if you do shoot one down.



Do not speak on my behalf, i did nothing wrong, in asking a person.. weather, he is a jurno or not!
Rest of the post was also in response to his statement about blockage of NATO supplies, and indeed it was a demo by army, just to open the eyes of public and expose double faced politicians.
No way my post was shooting any one... i really want to read the interview, which he mentioned by him self. Don't be so sensitive.
Shooting of the drones is purely political, rather i must say double face of politicians and idiot followers.
Shooting down a drone isn’t so hard to do - DAWN.COM

i will soon post more links, only to prove my view point.

PTI sit-in nothing more than a farce: Pervez Rashid - DAWN.COM

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## Slav Defence

'Civilian supremacy is at the top of Nawaz Sharif's mind'

What a sugar coat to Mr.Sharif's insecurity and fear.
Mark my words,he will not promote on the basis of skills and intelligence to tackle threat,but he will assure that promoted army chief will ensure his 'security' rather then of 'nations'

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## truthseeker2010

Rain Forest said:


> View attachment 10819



Correction the second from left is not a contender, instead there is the Tariq Khan, and he does NOT have a mustache. 

But will the odds change this time or.....


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## Leader

Xeric said:


> 4 Kings & the Wild Card | The Express Tribune Labs



I heard army is betting on general Tariq as he is popular in army and in good books of US. final decision obviously will come from US consent.

and also the god father aka kiyani is not out of the system just yet..


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## mave

hasnain0099 said:


> what a level of intellect! Must commend the maker of this picture. Shows how twisted our population is  If nobel prize for conspiracy theory making would have been there evey year it would have been won by either a Pakistani or an Indian.
> And yes you forgot to mention one thing, first two were responsible for breaking Pakistan while the later two responsible for selling the leftover to US.



What about Mullas ???? Are you pro Mullas ???


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## SBD-3

mave said:


> What about Mullas ???? Are you pro Mullas ???


Mullahs are just the bi-product of these gems.....Arn't they?

Seniority has prevailed this time....COAS and then CJCSC


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## airmarshal

Hamza Shehbaz Sharif, I think!


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## DV RULES

*Lt. General Rashad Mahmood* is most suitable for this post.


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## Viking 63

3 days to deadline !!!


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## SBD-3




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## SBD-3




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## HAIDER

Kayani will most probably stay till the mid or end of 2014. American and NATO has excellent working relationship and its very risky to change the leader in the middle of any type of ongoing operation, example is Afghan evac in progress.


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## batmannow

HAIDER said:


> Kayani will most probably stay till the mid or end of 2014. American and NATO has excellent working relationship and its very risky to change the leader in the middle of any type of ongoing operation, example is Afghan evac in progress.


sir, its enough cause, it will lead to something deadly to kiyani, who knows it that when the time comes an C130 can explode in the air too?
he has to go now?
NATO or US they hve thier say, but still they are unable to dictate PAKARMY on number of issues, this one is the top of list!



Xeric said:


> 4 Kings & the Wild Card | The Express Tribune Labs


whats your take sir?


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## Zarvan

hasnain0099 said:


>


I think it would be General Haroon Aslam @Xeric other wise it would be disaster by him again



Leader said:


> I heard army is betting on general Tariq as he is popular in army and in good books of US. final decision obviously will come from US consent.
> 
> and also the god father aka kiyani is not out of the system just yet..


This time its not USA it would be most probably Haroon Aslam

and Tariq Khan would be the biggest disaster for the Army


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## Zarvan

Dunya news is reporting Nawaz just met Raheel Shareef and also Rashid Mahmood


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## Rashid Mahmood

Gen Rashid Mahmood will be the next COAS.


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## Edevelop

*PM Nawaz to name new army chief tomorrow *

ISLAMABAD: The lingering wait for appointments to two of the most critical positions in the country’s military hierarchy is about to end with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif all set to make the much-awaited decision later this week.

While the official announcement is not expected to be made before November 28, government and military sources seem to suggest that, barring last-minute changes, Lt-Gen Rashad Mahmood, the current Chief of General Staff, is all but certain to become the country’s next army chief. Similarly, Lt Gen Haroon Aslam is expected to assume the role of Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC).

Although the government has been tight-lipped over these key appointments, a retired military officer privy to the development disclosed that Gen Ashfaq Parvaiz Kayani, who will be stepping down on November 29 after six years, proposed the names of Lt Gen Rashad as his successor and Lt Gen Aslam as CJCSC. “It is now up to the prime minister whether he accepts Kayani’s suggestion or not,” said the retired officer, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Meanwhile, reports also suggest that the government is considering rotating the post of CJCSC among the three armed forces. If the rotation policy is restored, naval chief Admiral Mohammad Asif Sandila will be given the position of CJCSC.

However, sources told _The Express Tribune_ that the army was suggesting that the head of three armed forces should be from the army, given its strength among the three armed forces

When contacted, officials from both the government and the military were unwilling to say anything on the new appointments. However, one government source called for patience until Thursday, when the government would formally make the announcement of the new army chief.


Once the announcement is made, the new army chief will take charge of his new position at a resplendent handover ceremony at the General Headquarters in Rawalpindi.

 
Meanwhile, the prime minister is scheduled to host a farewell dinner for the outgoing army chief, General Kayani today (Wednesday), where he will have an opportunity to interact with the military high command. All corps commanders and senior military officials have been invited to attend the reception.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/637547/change-of-guard-pm-nawaz-to-name-new-army-chief-tomorrow/*http://tribune.com.pk/story/637547/change-of-guard-pm-nawaz-to-name-new-army-chief-tomorrow/*


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## Rahil khan

According to Geo TV, Prime Minister has just met with Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood, and Lt Gen Rahil Sharif, in a two separate meetings in which they discussed professional issues.......... If that's the signal for something, it's definitely a surprise for me.

*New Army Chief: Two top Generals meet PM Nawaz Sharif*

ISLAMABAD: Two senior Army generals held one on one meetings with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif as appointment of the new Army Chief on cards, ARY News reported on Wednesday.

The outgoing Chief of Army Staff Gen. Ashfaq Pervez Kayani will retire from his powerful military post on December 28 (tomorrow). Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is hosting a farewell dinner in the honour of Gen. Kayani tonight.

Chief of General Staff Lt. Gen. Rashid Mehmood called on Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Wednesday morning and discussed the matters of professional interest in one on one meeting, sources said. Lt. Gen. Rashid Mehmood has been second in seniority list for appointment of the new Chief of Army Staff (COAS).

Later, Lt. Gen. Raheel Sharif, who has been third in the seniority list of the Army commanders, also called on Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in one on meeting this morning.

According to sources, Lt. Gen. Rashid Mehmood and Lt. Gen. Raheel Sharif are top contenders to fill the top Pakistan military posts of the Chief of Army Staff and the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC). 

New Army Chief: Two top Generals meet PM Nawaz Sharif


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## Zarvan

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Gen Rashid Mahmood will be the next COAS.


How do you know that are you Rashid Mahmood yourself or what ?



HAIDER said:


> Kayani will most probably stay till the mid or end of 2014. American and NATO has excellent working relationship and its very risky to change the leader in the middle of any type of ongoing operation, example is Afghan evac in progress.


He is going Mr where do you get your analysis from man


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## Rashid Mahmood

Zarvan said:


> How do you know that are you Rashid Mahmood yourself or what ?
> 
> 
> He is going Mr where do you get your analysis from man




 No I am not him.

Latest News...(ATV News headline....)

It is expected that the following will happen....
Gen Rashid Mahmood CJCSC
Gen Raheel Shareef COAS


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## HAIDER

Rashid Mahmood said:


> No I am not him.
> 
> Latest News...(ATV News headline....)
> 
> It is expected that the following will happen....
> Gen Rashid Mahmood CJCSC
> Gen Raheel Shareef COAS



Politically under pressure govt by PPP and MQM. Otherwise NS is not willing to do that. Kiyani has outstanding Northern Command record and appreciated by US Gen in 2000.


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## Zarvan

Rashid Mahmood said:


> No I am not him.
> 
> Latest News...(ATV News headline....)
> 
> It is expected that the following will happen....
> Gen Rashid Mahmood CJCSC
> Gen Raheel Shareef COAS


Still not clear Sir Nawaz is man of surprise he can do anything and @HAIDER Kiyani himself doesn't want extension and also first time government forced him to do


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## Amaa'n

All respects for all the Lt.Gen, its a very tough and rigid journey to this point, with all being said, I would still not like to see Lt Gen Raheel Shareef as COAS.

the best combination would be
Haroon ul Islam as CJCSC
Rashid Mahmood for his CT efforts in the intelligence community.


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## Rahil khan

balixd said:


> All respects for all the Lt.Gen, its a very tough and rigid journey to this point, with all being said, I would still not like to see Lt Gen Raheel Shareef as COAS.
> 
> the best combination would be
> Haroon ul Islam as CJCSC
> Rashid Mahmood for his CT efforts in the intelligence community.



Forgive my ignorance sir, but can you explain a little bit why Lt Gen Raheel Sharif is not suitable for the post of COAS?? I have heard a lot about Gen Haroon Aslam, Tariq Khan but not much about Raheel Sharif, except that he is the younger brother of Maj Shabir Sharif Shaheed. Even members here are not much favoring him. Can you explain why is that??


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## Areesh

Aik shareef nai doosrai shareef ko chun lia.


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## Rain Forest

Rahil khan said:


> Forgive my ignorance sir, but can you explain a little bit why Lt Gen Raheel Sharif is not suitable for the post of COAS?? I have heard a lot about Gen Haroon Aslam, Tariq Khan but not much about Raheel Sharif, except that he is the younger brother of Maj Shabir Sharif Shaheed. Even members here are not much favoring him. Can you explain why is that??



I Think General Tariq Khan COAS and General Raheel Sharif CJCSC is and excellent combination.


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## Zarvan

Nawaz has called sectary defence and ask to prepare the letter of order but who it will be ?????????????????????????????


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## XYON

Why is a MUSTACHE mandatory for all Army Chiefs? (barring one only perhaps)!!!!!!


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## ejaz007

*PM meets Lt. Generals Rashid Mahmood, Raheel Sharif separately*

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, who has to make a final decision regarding the appointments of Pakistan’s new Chief of Army Staff (COAS) and the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) shortly, held meetings separately with the two Lieutenant Generals Rashid Mahmood and Raheel Sharif on Wednesday early morning here, Geo News reported.

Matters relating to the security of the country and professional affairs were discussed in the meetings, sources said.

Lt. General Rashid Mahmood currently the Chief of General Staff also served as GOC and Corps Commander Lahore.

Later, the prime minister also met with the Lt Gen Raheel Sharif, Inspector General Training and Evaluation at the GHQ.

PM meets Lt. Generals Rashid Mahmood, Raheel Sharif separately - thenews.com.pk


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## Farah Sohail

Since Nawaz Shariff has met Gen Rashid and Gen Raheel Shariff today...it seems apparently Gen Haroon is out of the race


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## Zarvan

Farah Sohail said:


> Since Nawaz Shariff has met Gen Rashid and Gen Raheel Shariff today...it seems apparently Gen Haroon is out of the race


nawaz i know we can't still say it for sure


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## Leader

Farah Sohail said:


> Since Nawaz Shariff has met Gen Rashid and Gen Raheel Shariff today...it seems apparently Gen Haroon is out of the race



by that logic, I am afraid he definitely met himself this morning, and it can be a disaster 

anyway, mostly saying G Raheel Sharif... the one who got the least votes on pdf.

I personally wanted to see G Tariq Khan as he is a ruthless fieldman and a soldier's soldier.

hope whosoever, is good for the democracy and the country, nothing less.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Zarvan

Haroon Aslam is likely to become Joint Chiefs and Rashad as COAS

Samma news is saying that Raheel Shareef to be made next Army Chief and Rashad as Joint that would be disaster again he is going for number three if this is true Musharraf was also on third


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## Rashid Mahmood

Dawn News;
*Lt. Gen Raheel Shareef most likely new COAS.*


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## Saleem

Leader said:


> by that logic, I am afraid he definitely met himself this morning, and it can be a disaster
> 
> anyway, mostly saying G Raheel Sharif... the one who got the least votes on pdf.
> 
> I personally wanted to see G Tariq Khan as he is a ruthless fieldman and a soldier's soldier.
> 
> hope whosoever, is good for the democracy and the country, nothing less.




he cant be meetin himself if he did he would die of shame.....

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## Leader

*.

Breaking News:*

Lt Gen Raheel Sharif as new COAS..and Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood as new CJCSC!

.

via shahid masood on twitter.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/405606615425904640


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## Alpha1

Leader said:


> *.
> 
> Breaking News:*
> 
> Lt Gen Raheel Sharif as new COAS..and Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood as new CJCSC!
> 
> .
> 
> via shahid masood on twitter.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/405606615425904640


News backed by any News channel?


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## Leader

Alpha1 said:


> News backed by any News channel?



dont have tv right now.


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## Rashid Mahmood

Announced.

Lt Gen Rashid Mahmood CJCSC

Lt Gen Raheel Shareef COAS


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## Alpha1

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Announced.
> 
> Lt Gen Rashid Mahmood CJCSC
> Lt Gen Raheel Shareef COAS


which channel?


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## Rashid Mahmood

All channels
DAWN, CNBC, etc


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## Farah Sohail

It seems Nawaz Shariff hasnt learnt its lesson.. It seems Nawaz Shariff will never sudhrofy........ Wht wrong had Gen Haroon...being the senior most.. done...tht he was out of the race?

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## Alpha1

yeah, just saw, Congratulations everyone


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## XYON

Nawaz's criteria for selection after meeting the prospective Generals ..... Eh Vi SHARIF tay mai Vi SHARIF!!!!


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## A.Rafay

Should have been Tariq Khan or Haroon Aslam!

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## Leader

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/405611602675642368


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## dilpakistani

So after Gen Znani, another Gen Znani will takeover


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## Rashid Mahmood

Both Lt. Generals have been promoted 4 Star Generals w.e.f. 28 - 11 - 13.


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## Leader




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## Amaa'n

well Shariff might not be repeating history again but he surely made the laughing stock out of the whole god damn Military

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## Farah Sohail

balixd said:


> well Shariff might not be repeating history again but he surely made the laughing stock out of the whole god damn Military



So ..is Raheel Shariff THAT bad?


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## Amaa'n

Farah Sohail said:


> So ..is Raheel Shariff THAT bad?


didn't mean to say that but promoting IG Training & Evaluation to the Most Powerful man in the country and the one who is going to lead the troops - isn't my cup of tea.

as I said earlier - every Lt Gen is good but some of them have the upper hand

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## Farah Sohail

balixd said:


> didn't mean to say that but promoting IG Training & Evaluation to the Most Powerful man in the country and the one who is going to lead the troops - isn't my cup of tea.
> 
> as I said earlier - every Lt Gen is good but some of them have the upper hand



True..Lt Gen Haroon Aslam being the senior most ...and also who hv lead Swat op would have been perfect orGen Tariq khan.... The only positive tht troops can take out from Raheel Shariff's appointment is tht he is brother of Nishan e Haider Shabbir Shariff..and thats all....

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## nomi007

1 thing which i realize that pm still afraid of ssg commando

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## Sugarcane

So, I was right...... 


LoveIcon said:


> Looks like NS is afraid and will return back once new "Sharif" Chief is settled


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## SBD-3

balixd said:


> didn't mean to say that but promoting IG Training & Evaluation to the Most Powerful man in the country and the one who is going to lead the troops - isn't my cup of tea.
> 
> as I said earlier - every Lt Gen is good but some of them have the upper hand


He is also the one who crafted the military doctrine for counter terrorism as well as cold start


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## Rain Forest

The coconut Nawaza


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## XYON

Oh Well!! Though at present times I would have preferred a fighting General like Haroon or Tariq to be the COAS. As people are now saying ...... one Zanani will leave and another will take her place!!

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## Rain Forest

XYON said:


> Oh Well!! Though at present times I would have preferred a fighting General like Haroon or Tariq to be the COAS. As people are now saying ...... one Zanani will leave and another will take her place!!



I Agree the moral has gone down !!


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## batmannow

XYON said:


> Oh Well!! Though at present times I would have preferred a fighting General like Haroon or Tariq to be the COAS. As people are now saying ...... one Zanani will leave and another will take her place!!


i dont think so, that raheel sharif, would be dancing the sharif dances?
just wait & see him, making everyone dance?
even with less reputed, but he is going to make history?
he is better, planner then quick reactionries like, TARIQ shb or HAROON shb!


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## fatman17

batmannow said:


> i dont think so, that raheel sharif, would be dancing the sharif dances?
> just wait & see him, making everyone dance?
> even with less reputed, but he is going to make history?
> he is better, planner then quick reactionries like, TARIQ shb or HAROON shb!


 
remember his brother was war hero not him!

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## Kompromat

Thread Closed


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