# Indian Small Arms Inventory Developed by DRDO ARDE & OFB



## Chanakya's_Chant

*Small Arms Developed By ARDE & OFB*

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## Chanakya's_Chant

Source:- TRISHUL: Small Arms Developed By ARDE & OFB

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## Indian Patriot

Excalibur, Amogh and Kalantak have been scrapped.


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## GURU DUTT

its high time that current PM & DM over hauls the entire DRDO/ARDE/OFB with totally new beurocracy and R& D team these jokers have made india a laughing stalk all over the world better to make a deal with israelies and produce Tevor 21 as mainstay strandard issue rifle of all indian armed forces and jeriko there side arm while mini uzi as a preffered carbine its not even hillarious any moreits sick the kind of crap arms they are making today

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## Chanakya's_Chant

GURU DUTT said:


> its high time that current PM & DM over hauls the entire DRDO/ARDE/OFB with totally new beurocracy and R& D team these jokers have made india a laughing stalk all over the world better to make a deal with israelies and produce Tevor 21 as mainstay strandard issue rifle of all indian armed forces and jeriko there side arm while mini uzi as a preffered carbine its not even hillarious any moreits sick the kind of crap arms they are making today



They are - OFB moving to commercial accounting system is the Ministry’s first step towards fulfilling recommendations of Kelkar Committee for restructuring ordnance factories.

Ordnance factories to move to commercial accounting system | The Indian Express

What is going to be more crucial is the ongoing modernization and upgradation of the countrywide network of 41 factories in which the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) manufactures weaponry, ammunition and equipment for the defence forces by BAE Systems.

BAE system offers to modernise ordnance | Business Standard Column

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## acetophenol

Indian Patriot said:


> Excalibur, Amogh and Kalantak have been scrapped.



AMOGH is in servive with paramilitary forces and the Coast guard

This lightweight packs a punch - The Hindu














^^^Vidhwansak MultiCal AMR

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## Indian Patriot

acetophenol said:


> AMOGH is in servive with paramilitary forces and the Coast guard



Too bad then, they missed out on a better weapon.


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## acetophenol

Indian Patriot said:


> Too bad then, they missed out on a better weapon.



I am sure those guys know better than you my friend.

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## Indian Patriot

acetophenol said:


> I am sure those guys know better than you my friend.



I am sure about that. Maybe that's why the elite troops of India use Israeli, Italian and foreign manufactured weapons. 

You believe INSAS and family are good weapons, I believe TAR-21 and foreign goods are better weapons. We both have our opinion.


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## GURU DUTT

Chanakya's_Chant said:


> They are - OFB moving to commercial accounting system is the Ministry’s first step towards fulfilling recommendations of Kelkar Committee for restructuring ordnance factories.
> 
> Ordnance factories to move to commercial accounting system | The Indian Express
> 
> What is going to be more crucial is the ongoing modernization and upgradation of the countrywide network of 41 factories in which the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) manufactures weaponry, ammunition and equipment for the defence forces by BAE Systems.
> 
> BAE system offers to modernise ordnance | Business Standard Column


it aint enof 

i guess ARDE & OFB are serousli in need of serous overhaul these jokers have fooled indian armed forces and tax payer for way too long and keep on bringing owt one after another pathettick copy paste hotch potch of international best sellers noammount of TOT gonna help these duffers/ buggers aligning them with BAE is like sending a 10th fail to IIT coaching and hoping he will clear the IIT JEE entrance exam

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## acetophenol

Indian Patriot said:


> I am sure about that. Maybe that's why the elite troops of India use Israeli, Italian and foreign manufactured weapons.
> 
> You believe INSAS and family are good weapons, I believe TAR-21 and foreign goods are better weapons. We both have our opinion.



Sure we do,sure we do

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## Indian Patriot

Whatever they are building I hope they put more effort into it so that such cases do not happen again. It s not DRDO risking their lives but the humble Indian jawan. 

Did 'inferior' guns cost us five lives?-News-Exclusives-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos


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## Echo_419

GURU DUTT said:


> it aint enof
> 
> i guess ARDE & OFB are serousli in need of serous overhaul these jokers have fooled indian armed forces and tax payer for way too long and keep on bringing owt one after another pathettick copy paste hotch potch of international best sellers noammount of TOT gonna help these duffers/ buggers aligning them with BAE is like sending a 10th fail to IIT coaching and hoping he will clear the IIT JEE entrance exam



MOD is moving slowly & carefully if they move to fast unions will create a lot of trouble

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## Srinivas

I think we should build partnership with Heckler and Koch !


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## special

acetophenol said:


>



that helmet is MKU product.

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## Water Car Engineer

*Excalibur INSAS*
*





Kalantak Carbine










MSMC/JVPC





*





*AMOGH/MICRO INSAS*







*Bullpup INSAS*

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## Water Car Engineer

*MSMC/JVPC*




















*OFB 40mm UGBL *

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## Water Car Engineer

*Multi Cal Rifle*



















*Some Sights*

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## Water Car Engineer

*Corner shot in development.*







*OFB AK, Ghatak*

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## axisofevil

Not impressed. While at first glance it looks great.....the receiver is crap. It looks like it was low quality stamped sheet metal produced by hand.

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## Water Car Engineer

axisofevil said:


> Not impressed. While at first glance it looks great.....the receiver is crap. It looks like it was low quality stamped sheet metal produced by hand.




Seriously, pretty much all of OFBs products look like that. They've been surviving off of hand out too long. India needs more companies producing small arms.

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## axisofevil

Water Car Engineer said:


> Seriously, pretty much all of OFBs products look like that. They've been surviving off of hand out too long. India needs more companies producing small arms.




I agree...their time has come. Time to make the relic extinct by opening the industry to private companies big and small. If it's the union's fault, then get rid of them in the name of national security.

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## Omega007

axisofevil said:


> Not impressed. While at first glance it looks great.....the receiver is crap. It looks like it was low quality stamped sheet metal produced by hand.



Everything that is of Indian origin will always be a crap to you.By the way,please be more specific about what do you refer to by 'it'??If you mean Amogh and other INSAS variants,then yeah,the receivers are of stamped construction.Even the AKM receiver is of stamped construction,that didn't affect its reliability!!
But if your comment was directed towards the MCIWS,then I'm afraid you are dead wrong on this one!!Because in case of the MCIWS,the receiver is made of Mg-Al alloy,which is not at all suitable for stamping or casting but works very well with milling process!!So please read up a few things before posting your comments,might save you the embarrassment.

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## Indian Patriot

DRDO, OFB etc are government sector companies. Which means that these companies will never close down because of losses because the government will always bail them out. Hence they are never motivated to give their best. They have an unlimited funding and zero accountability. This combination will always lead to poor results.

Look at the Kestrel APC/IFV made by a private sector company and look at the piece of cr@p called Abhay IFV made by DRDO. One look is enough to tell you the difference in quality. But because of DRDO lobbying the Kestrel will never be introduced. Look at the INSAS, it looks like it has been made by a class 10 drop-out in his family garage work shop. 

India can make world class weapons but for that they need to invite companies like Tata, Mahindra, Larsen and Toubro and other private sector giants who can build good weapons and equipment. Disasters like DRDO need to be shut down permanently and the labor union arrested and jailed if they make any protest. National security is more important than a bunch of ch***ya labor unions. 

Introduce private sector into defense and see how Indian becomes world's leading weapons exporter from leading weapons importer.

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## axisofevil

Omega007 said:


> Everything that is of Indian origin will always be a crap to you.By the way,please be more specific about what do you refer to by 'it'??If you mean Amogh and other INSAS variants,then yeah,the receivers are of stamped construction.Even the AKM receiver is of stamped construction,that didn't affect its reliability!!
> But if your comment was directed towards the MCIWS,then I'm afraid you are dead wrong on this one!!Because in case of the MCIWS,the receiver is made of Mg-Al alloy,which is not at all suitable for stamping or casting but works very well with milling process!!So please read up a few things before posting your comments,might save you the embarrassment.




Embarrassed? Of what? Dude I stated the receiver looks like shit becasue it looks like stamped sheet metal. Our production quality sucks. EVEN CHANDLER ADMITTED TO IT AFFECTING MANY DEFENCE RELATED INDUSTRIES? You dont even know which weapon or weapons I am referring to yet you are quick to point out that I should read up. How about you get some glasses and apply some logic. Its pretty obvious to any retard which weapon I am referring to.



Aren't you and the ones who up voted your comment the same folks who keep spewing that INSAS is great bullshit? Ask CRPF how the fuk they feel about INSAS RELIABILITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



So thanks for your input but it doesn't change anything about my statement....read up on issues affecting our prduction capabilites. Its a primary reason for the failure rates of our missiles and such.

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## Omega007

axisofevil said:


> Embarrassed? Of what? Dude I stated the receiver looks like shit becasue it looks like stamped sheet metal. Our production quality sucks. EVEN CHANDLER ADMITTED TO IT AFFECTING MANY DEFENCE RELATED INDUSTRIES? You dont even know which weapon or weapons I am referring to yet you are quick to point out that I should read up. How about you get some glasses and apply some logic. Its pretty obvious to any retard which weapon I am referring to.



Like I said,and saying this again,be more specific in your comment.Which gun you were referring to by the way??





axisofevil said:


> Aren't you and the ones who up voted your comment the same folks who keep spewing that INSAS is great bullshit? Ask CRPF how the fuk they feel about INSAS RELIABILITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



And you did not actually read what we posted there in that thread carefully.If you had,you would have seen that I myself stated I would take an AKM any day if I have to go in a operation in a dense jungle over anything else!!As for how somebody feel about INSAS or whatever else,I do not have to live by their testimonials cause unlike some others,I have fired it enough times to know what the heck I'm talking about!!Thank you.






axisofevil said:


> So thanks for your input but it doesn't change anything about my statement....read up on issues affecting our prduction capabilites. Its a primary reason for the failure rates of our missiles and such.


No doubt,the production houses lack any sense of work culture but that's no reason to call the design a crap!!I have used the INSAS many a times but then,they were in cleaned and tiptop condition,the barrels were new and cleaned and greased,the sites were zeroed in properly ,so can't really compare it to the ones in the field though.


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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Seriously, pretty much all of OFBs products look like that. They've been surviving off of hand out too long. India needs more companies producing small arms.



Involve private sector and then see the difference. These PSUs make obsolete things not weapons.

Just look at the piece of cr@p these PSUs make. It looks like the weapons have been designed and built by some high school dropouts. 

People who call INSAS a good weapon are the ones who never handled a rifle in their lives. A blind man can see that INSAS is a smelly POS, but still they would defend INSAS like their family honor depends on it. The fools don't have any knowledge on weapons or basic things in life but they will keep yapping because of their habit and upbringing. Army and paramilitary both are fed up with INSAS and have said so in no uncertain terms. Still fools would defend INSAS because their heads are too far up their @rse to see the truth. 

People who defend failure PSUs are ones whose father/mother works there and if government bans them then they will be left unemployed and have nothing to eat or clothes to wear. That's why they will jump and shout in favor of PSUs. They are not at all concerned about national security but from where their next meal will come. Beggar class people.

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## Indian Patriot

Omega007 said:


> DRDO is not a company you stupid son of b!tch.
> 
> 
> 
> That fucking Krestel you are boasting about,was basically designed by the CVRDE!!Tata just built,or rather assembled the prototype!!All your out of this world Tata did,was to tight some screws and bolts and some welding work,and that's it!!Not a single component came out of Tata's stable you dumb fu*k arsehole!!
> Do you even realize that Abhay was just meant to be a tech demonstrator from its very beginning??Do you even know what was its purpose - it was to identify and develop the core competency,required for developing a working ICV!!To develop the requite technology and expertise within the country,like the digital fcs,lighter armor,weapon systems,suspensions,transmission assemblies to name a few.And inputs from this same Abhay you loath so much,have gone into the Krestel project!!And who says DRDO is lobbying against Krestel when they were the ones who did all of the actual designing works??Who told you so,answer me if you know the name of your dad!!
> 
> Private giants my arse,none of the so called private giants of yours can develop anything on worth while on their own,none of them!!Look what is happening to the FICV project - where is the technology demonstrator??Where??At best,they can only do the manufacturing,that's what they are good at and they do it better,much better than the OFB or any other government owned companies but beyond that,they do not much to show for themselves.
> 
> As for the look of a gun,looks do not kill,the bullets does!!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah yeah,disband the DRDO and then who's gonna do the designing work - your dad you asshole??What private sector you are talking about??What is their achievement so far??None of the companies you mentioned,can produce even a field howitzer of their own design,none of them can design an AESA radar,or NVG goggles,forget about much more complex systems like main battle tanks or subs or missiles!!
> Just answer me,what happened to the so vaunted FICV??Where is it??What is your precious private giants doing - scratching their balls or something??
> Looking at the level of your posts,it seems your parents should have used some protection on that faithful night!!At least there would have been one less stupid piece of crap in this world.



Calm down you demented son of a smelly rabid bitch. Did a goat chew off your balls that you are mindlessly barking here? DRDO is the organisation that fails to come up with anything good for the armed forces so you can keep sucking DRDO while facts disagree.

TATA assembles APC/IFV and your precious DRDO makes inter-galactic spaceships? What world class weapon has DRDO being able to produce? What is the worth of DRDO without technology transfer from foreign private firms? It is the private firms who bring a sense of professionalism in sarkari daftars like DRDO where chaprasis like you crawl around like cockroaches you dumb fu*k arsehole!! Only an uneducated zamadar like you would find any merit in the DRDO joke of an IFV. But then again people like you cannot even write their name on paper. What more can be expected from toilet scrubbing uneducated arseholes like you?
And what the hell is ICV? Is it some new wonder weapon that DRDO has come up with or is it the name of your dad? He must be as dumb as you or even worse.

From the language you are using I knew you must be a ch*tiya who does not know anything. Who the hell made the hull for INS Arihant? Ever heard of a company called Larsen and Toubro. Ever heard of TATA Advanced Materials? Uneducated chaprasis like you are not even qualified to wipe the floors of those offices. 

And it is armed forces who are frustrated with the failure called INSAS. But then again you are a scrawny kid hiding in your basement and playing counter strike for too long made you think you are an expert on guns and firearms. Have you ever handled a rifle in real life? Have you even seen a real rifle?

Where is Indian indigenous 155 mm artillery gun? Is DRDO waiting for technology transfer? You arsehole, does your dad design weapons in DRDO? What has DRDO achieved so far, answer that first you demented arsehole. Where is Arjun tank, where is 155 howitzer, where is modern combat rifle? are they scratching your balls that they have no time to come up with anything?

Looking at your gibberish its a pity that on the fateful night your father went to the market instead of staying with his wife. He should have stained the bed sheet instead of staining society by giving birth to a vermin like you. You are such a stupid piece of crap that nobody likes you at all, you are a waste on oxygen and nothing else. No wonder you cry and whine on the internet begging for online sympathy. What is with your emo crybaby signature, people hate you too much? LOL!!!

It is easy to talk trash over the internet hiding behind a computer screen as you have demonstrated. Instead of wasting bandwith and showing your lack of civility and poor upbringing you should stick to doing household work. And by the way feel free to rot in my ignore list. Vermin like you are not worth time and effort. Now get lost loser.


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## Water Car Engineer

Reflex Sight






Various Optics by IRDE-DRDO






Thermal by IRDE DRDO

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## Suman

I wish PunjLloyd participate in weapons manufacturing too. They are heck of a company


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## FNFAL

I love how arde and ofb simply copy paste the AKM design to suit their needs. 

Just look at that gas tube on both the trichy and mciws...they havent even changed the 45 degree of the tube..even though it has been shown one with 90 deg is better...case in point the AK103.....seriou . I understand that the gas piston is the best best, but geez..cant we simply move away from that AKM blueprint and get something original?

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## #hydra#

Water Car Engineer said:


> Seriously, pretty much all of OFBs products look like that. They've been surviving off of hand out too long. India needs more companies producing small arms.



Sir, govt of india has a very bad policy when comes to local purchase for defense gears.so how can you expect more companies in defense sector. Let see the case of Ultra light howitzer, army want 145 guns initially and we failed to conclude the agreement with US initially, then kalyani group offered ULH development (by specification wise its not as light as M777,i agree with the fact) they started there work, invested money on this project even they purchased some outside companies. suddenly BAE offered gun under make india slogan, and as per reports we are going for that. Its just like showing middle finger toward these private companies, after all unlike PSUs all private companies are working for profit, money etc. GOI wants to treat indigenous project on par with that of west, here we are acting like just a wealthy buyer with no responsibility to in house efforts. If we didn't change this attitude, no one will put there money in our defense sector. Instead of promoting our own efforts what we are doing now. will run behind top end equipment available and the seller demands exorbitant price for there toys, then next stage of saga the bargaining and associated time delay.at the end we will buy that costly stuff and keep using that thing for few decades even after its obsolescence. In my opinion we can buy a decent indigenous products(if it is utter non tech don't go for that thing) I repeat the word a descend one which will be cheaper hence we can use it for short period, a decade or so after that we an buy new advanced stuff than predecessor again. The money spend on this case always stay inside our country, the seller can use this money to further develop into a new project and technology, and it can offered to our armed force again.


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## Water Car Engineer

#hydra# said:


> Sir, govt of india has a very bad policy when comes to local purchase for defense gears.so how can you expect more companies in defense sector. Let see the case of Ultra light howitzer, army want 145 guns initially and we failed to conclude the agreement with US initially, then kalyani group offered ULH development (by specification wise its not as light as M777,i agree with the fact) they started there work, invested money on this project even they purchased some outside companies. suddenly BAE offered gun under make india slogan, and as per reports we are going for that. Its just like showing middle finger toward these private companies, after all unlike PSUs all private companies are working for profit, money etc. GOI wants to treat indigenous project on par with that of west, here we are acting like just a wealthy buyer with no responsibility to in house efforts. If we didn't change this attitude, no one will put there money in our defense sector. Instead of promoting our own efforts what we are doing now. will run behind top end equipment available and the seller demands exorbitant price for there toys, then next stage of saga the bargaining and associated time delay.at the end we will buy that costly stuff and keep using that thing for few decades even after its obsolescence. In my opinion we can buy a decent indigenous products(if it is utter non tech don't go for that thing) I repeat the word a descend one which will be cheaper hence we can use it for short period, a decade or so after that we an buy new advanced stuff than predecessor again. The money spend on this case always stay inside our country, the seller can use this money to further develop into a new project and technology, and it can offered to our armed force again.



Nothing wrong with in house development. As DRDO-ARDE's multi cal rifle, upcoming LMGs, SMGs, will hopefully be promising, but tolerating OFBs quality is another thing.

There are several private firms within India that wants to produce small arms, some of which are punj lloyd, mahindra, bharat forge, among others. This is an Indian political decision of letting private firms producing small arms, nothing to do with outside forces. Let them lose.

If they continue to let OFB have a monopoly over this, it's only India that suffers.


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## Omega007

FNFAL said:


> I love how arde and ofb simply copy paste the AKM design to suit their needs.
> 
> Just look at that gas tube on both the trichy and mciws...*they havent even changed the 45 degree of the tube*..even though it has been shown one with 90 deg is better...case in point the AK103.....seriou . I understand that the gas piston is the best best, but geez..cant we simply move away from that AKM blueprint and get something original?



True that,guess why did they decide to go for the 45 degree gas tube when they had put a 90 degree one on the INSAS which the MCIWS is supposed to replace!!


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## Indian Patriot

The truth about DRDO

Narendra Modi at DRDO flays 'chalta hai' attitude - Business Today- Business News


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## Water Car Engineer

*Amogh Carbine*






*JVPC PDW






MCIWS






Ex-INSAS & Ghatak*


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## Water Car Engineer

*ARDE MCIWS Prototype










MSMC PDW*

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## Water Car Engineer

*MSMC PDW*
*













ARDE MCIWS Prototype*

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## Water Car Engineer

*ARDE MCIWS & Cornershot Prototypes*






*ARDE Cornshot Prototype*
*


















Two different MCIWS prototypes

*

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## IndoUS

I swear they better not put furniture on MCIWS


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## RAMPAGE

Water Car Engineer said:


> *ARDE MCIWS & Cornershot Prototypes*


Pathetic cornershot.


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## Water Car Engineer

RAMPAGE said:


> Pathetic cornershot.




Thanks for your input, it's a early prototype.


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## Water Car Engineer

Excalibur Rifle


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## MilSpec

based on market reputation and lack of ingenuity, I wouldn't buy any of these.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> *Corner shot in development.*
> 
> 
> 
> *OFB AK, Ghatak*




seems they stopped producing the AK clone after russian objection...


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## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> seems they stopped producing the AK clone after russian objection...




No, that was old news when Kalashnikov was alive. "Ghatak" is currently in production.



MilSpec said:


> based on market reputation and lack of ingenuity, I wouldn't buy any of these.



You couldnt buy most of these even if your wanted.

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## anyrandom

DRDO needs to be shut down or be limited to only develop strategic missiles. For god's sake let private companies run the show. They will have 10x of PSU's productivity and 50x their quality.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> No, that was old news when Kalashnikov was alive. "Ghatak" is currently in production.
> 
> 
> 
> You couldnt buy most of these even if your wanted.



cant find anything on their website??

P.S: If you were producing em... there wouldnt have been news of russians establishing an AK factory in india.


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## MilSpec

Water Car Engineer said:


> You couldnt buy most of these even if your wanted.


You mean a competent: rifle system, shotgun system, pdw, dmr, handgun, bolt action system??think again.


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## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> cant find anything on their website??
> 
> P.S: If you were producing em... there wouldnt have been news of russians establishing an AK factory in india.




First of all, what do you expect from their websites?


This is old news.

KOLKATA: Rifle Factory, Ishapore, one of the oldest ordnance factories in the country, has successfully designed an assault rifle on the lines of the AK-47.

Sources in the Ordnance Factory Board said the prototype of this weapon had successfully cleared field trials by the Army, the Indian Air Force and the Sashastra Seema Bal.

*The Ishapore factory will soon start production of 50,000 units of this rifle in the first phase.*


For over a decade now, the Ordnance Factory Board has been attempting to develop an indigenous assault rifle on the lines of the AK-47. Initially, there was some embarrassment after an ordnance factory displayed an indigenous replica of the AK-47 at a defence expo in Delhi. This didn't go unnoticed and Mikhail Kalashnikov, the inventor of the world's most sold and used assault rifle that goes by his name, threatened to file a copyright violation suit against the Indian ordnance factory.

"Since then, our designers have been attempting to develop an assault rifle, using the AK-47 as a model but without replicating any of its mechanism. Three ordnance factories tried to develop their own variants. These were Rifle Factory of Ishapore, the Small Arms Factory of Kanpur and the Ordnance Factory of Tiruchirapalli. The Ishapore factory has a long history of developing and making rifles. During the World Wars, this factory produced .303 bolt-action rifles for the Allied forces. After the 1962 Sino-India conflict, the factory developed and built the 7.62mm self-loading semi-automatic rifle. This rifle was called the Ishapore Rifle and it went on to become the mainstay for the Indian security forces for several decades. In the 90's, the factory started manufacturing the 5.56mm Insas rifles that are still the primary personal weapon of the Indian infantryman," an official said.

*The three factories at Ishapore, Kanpur and Tiruchirapalli built prototypes that underwent tests for the first time earlier this year. Minor defects were detected in all three variants. While the one developed by the Ishapore factory was declared fit in all other aspects, it failed to operate successfully in mud. An assault rifle has to be effective in all conditions, even when fired from under slush.*

*"This defect was rectified subsequently and when the final round of tests was conducted, the Ishapore variant was declared the best. This is an improved version of any assault rifle and the designers borrowed several facets from the 5.56mm Insas, which was also developed at Ishapore, while making this rifle. With the Insas going out of production, facilities at the Ishapore factory were lying idle. The new order will sustain the factory for the times to come," the official added.*

Ishapore factory develops Indian variant of AK-47 - The Times of India

Also Indian police will most likely order this as well.

As part of its modernization drive, the Punjab police are now set to dismantle more than 6,000 old weapons as their spare parts are no longer available or the weapon itself is no longer manufactured. These arms include 668 sten guns and 2,910 .38 bore revolvers, both of which are close-quarter combat (CQB) weapons.

Besides, 2,000 musket rifles that were used in revolts in India including 1857 will also be retired. These rifles are known for their signature style of single shot firing and would load only one muzzle, known as barood, at a time. These had obviously not been used for years.


*The state police have now sent a proposal to the Union home ministry to acquire assault rifles Ghatak and Excalibur, both of which were recently designed by Defence Research Development Organisation at Pune. Punjab will become the first state in the country to acquire these weapons that were displayed for the first time in May this year at Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) in Kolkata.*

While Ghatak, with a 7.62mm size of ammunition, is an advanced version of an AK-47 rifle, the Excalibur is an improved version of the common INSAS rifle and fires 5.56mm ammunition.

"I had personally gone to Ishapore to train in the new weaponry. They will be a cheaper alternative to the Russian AK-47s and AK-56s. This will help us save on import costs," said Rakesh Chandra, Punjab police inspector general (commando), Bahadurgarh, which houses reserve ammunition.

Punjab cops turn Ghatak, set to dump WW-II guns - The Times of India










MilSpec said:


> You mean a competent: rifle system, shotgun system, pdw, dmr, handgun, bolt action system??think again.




You cant buy most of these guns in this thread, even if you wanted to, what are you saying?

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## MilSpec

Water Car Engineer said:


> You cant buy most of these guns in this thread, even if you wanted to, what are you saying?


Do you understand the crux of the matter when I say I wouldn't buy any of these systems?
What that means is if a civilian variant of these were ever offered in US i wouldn't buy it based on it's reputation.

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## Water Car Engineer

MilSpec said:


> Do you understand the crux of the matter when I say I wouldn't buy any of these systems?
> *What that means is if a civilian variant of these were ever offered in US i wouldn't buy it based on it's reputation.*



I see. Werent you the one that said as soon as the INSAS some how enters the civilian market, you would buy it?


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## MilSpec

Water Car Engineer said:


> I see. Werent you the one that said as soon as the INSAS some how enters the civilian market, you would buy it?


Insas maybe, but not an akm varint, the shotgun, the 5.56 x 30 mm version pdw, or the shotgun showed in one of the images... neither the MCIWS unless they make a bull pup...

The only reason I would get a Insas is to test it and/or saiga 5.56 alternative.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Rifle Factory, Ishapore, one of the oldest ordnance factories in the country, has successfully designed an assault rifle on the lines of the AK-47.



Are you serious?

A rifle that has been already cloned by every country on earth is now being mass produced in India and that counts as an achievement for OFB?

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## Echo_419

Indian Patriot said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> A rifle that has been already cloned by every country on earth is now being mass produced in India and that counts as an achievement for OFB?



Agreed anyways with the advent of Pvt participation in Def sector this will slowly change


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## Water Car Engineer

MCIWS Prototype






Same design


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## punit

Water Car Engineer said:


> I see. Werent you the one that said as soon as the INSAS some how enters the civilian market, you would buy it?


forget INSAS .. have u seen an OFB made .32 pistol ? i won trust my life with it !


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## Water Car Engineer

punit said:


> forget INSAS .. have u seen an OFB made .32 pistol ? i won trust my life with it !




I know. Take a look at this from them.






A product of absolute monopoly.

However, certain DRDO labs arent doing bad. In terms of small arms, this MCIWS and the up coming LMG could prove that.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> I know. Take a look at this from them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A product of absolute monopoly.
> 
> However, certain DRDO labs arent doing bad. In terms of small arms, this MCIWS and the up coming LMG could prove that.



What in the name of everything holy is that filthy abomination called chakra rath and why does it say BMP? Please tell me it is not designed by DRDO to be BMP-2 replacement.

Why are DRDO employees so dumb and stupid? Is there even an academic criteria requirement or is any beggar given the job? There are quite a few losers from DRDO in this forum as well. Now instead of wasting time and public money surfing the net those losers can serve the country better by investing their valuable time of research and development.


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## Echo_419

Indian Patriot said:


> What in the name of everything holy is that filthy abomination called chakra rath and why does it say BMP? Please tell me it is not designed by DRDO to be BMP-2 replacement.
> 
> Why are DRDO employees so dumb and stupid? Is there even an academic criteria requirement or is any beggar given the job? There are quite a few losers from DRDO in this forum as well. Now instead of wasting time and public money surfing the net those losers can serve the country better by investing their valuable time of research and development.



Chacha OFB hai won DRDO ko free mein galiyaa na nikalo

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> What in the name of everything holy is that filthy abomination called chakra rath and why does it say BMP? Please tell me it is not designed by DRDO to be BMP-2 replacement.
> 
> Why are DRDO employees so dumb and stupid? Is there even an academic criteria requirement or is any beggar given the job? There are quite a few losers from DRDO in this forum as well. Now instead of wasting time and public money surfing the net those losers can serve the country better by investing their valuable time of research and development.




That's done by OFB.

DRDO has done Abhay tech demonstrator 































And with TATA, Kestral.

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## callofduty

axisofevil said:


> Not impressed. While at first glance it looks great.....the receiver is crap. It looks like it was low quality stamped sheet metal produced by hand.


what you will expect from drdo.they are not h&k or colt.



Indian Patriot said:


> Calm down you demented son of a smelly rabid bitch. Did a goat chew off your balls that you are mindlessly barking here? DRDO is the organisation that fails to come up with anything good for the armed forces so you can keep sucking DRDO while facts disagree.
> 
> TATA assembles APC/IFV and your precious DRDO makes inter-galactic spaceships? What world class weapon has DRDO being able to produce? What is the worth of DRDO without technology transfer from foreign private firms? It is the private firms who bring a sense of professionalism in sarkari daftars like DRDO where chaprasis like you crawl around like cockroaches you dumb fu*k arsehole!! Only an uneducated zamadar like you would find any merit in the DRDO joke of an IFV. But then again people like you cannot even write their name on paper. What more can be expected from toilet scrubbing uneducated arseholes like you?
> And what the hell is ICV? Is it some new wonder weapon that DRDO has come up with or is it the name of your dad? He must be as dumb as you or even worse.
> 
> From the language you are using I knew you must be a ch*tiya who does not know anything. Who the hell made the hull for INS Arihant? Ever heard of a company called Larsen and Toubro. Ever heard of TATA Advanced Materials? Uneducated chaprasis like you are not even qualified to wipe the floors of those offices.
> 
> And it is armed forces who are frustrated with the failure called INSAS. But then again you are a scrawny kid hiding in your basement and playing counter strike for too long made you think you are an expert on guns and firearms. Have you ever handled a rifle in real life? Have you even seen a real rifle?
> 
> Where is Indian indigenous 155 mm artillery gun? Is DRDO waiting for technology transfer? You arsehole, does your dad design weapons in DRDO? What has DRDO achieved so far, answer that first you demented arsehole. Where is Arjun tank, where is 155 howitzer, where is modern combat rifle? are they scratching your balls that they have no time to come up with anything?
> 
> Looking at your gibberish its a pity that on the fateful night your father went to the market instead of staying with his wife. He should have stained the bed sheet instead of staining society by giving birth to a vermin like you. You are such a stupid piece of crap that nobody likes you at all, you are a waste on oxygen and nothing else. No wonder you cry and whine on the internet begging for online sympathy. What is with your emo crybaby signature, people hate you too much? LOL!!!
> 
> It is easy to talk trash over the internet hiding behind a computer screen as you have demonstrated. Instead of wasting bandwith and showing your lack of civility and poor upbringing you should stick to doing household work. And by the way feel free to rot in my ignore list. Vermin like you are not worth time and effort. Now get lost loser.


after along time i saw a man that has some knowledge,other are in dream.i know we shold love our country but not with ignoring the faults one.we should realise that.



anyrandom said:


> DRDO needs to be shut down or be limited to only develop strategic missiles. For god's sake let private companies run the show. They will have 10x of PSU's productivity and 50x their quality.


i agree man i agree let private company participate.then watch the modernization.


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## Argon Prime

callofduty said:


> what you will expect from drdo.they are not h&k or colt.
> 
> 
> 
> after along time i saw a man that has some knowledge,other are in dream.i know we shold love our country but not with ignoring the faults one.we should realise that.
> 
> 
> i agree man i agree let private company participate.then watch the modernization.



Are you the illegitimate brother of our Fartiot chap boyo??

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## surya kiran

callofduty said:


> what you will expect from drdo.they are not h&k or colt.
> 
> 
> after along time i saw a man that has some knowledge,other are in dream.i know we shold love our country but not with ignoring the faults one.we should realise that.
> 
> 
> i agree man i agree let private company participate.then watch the modernization.



Knowledge of Fartriot is as good as no knowledge.

Please find below examples of Fartriot's knowledge

1. Nag is 4th generation
2. Artillery was not placed on hold by GoI
3. Kaveri was never sanctioned
4. Arjun CAG report does not exist and when provided with link does not read
5. Warhead and seeker differentiation is unheard of
6. IA procurement procedure is God's gift to mankind. 
7. Does not know, that tenders which were only private sector were never fulfilled.
8. Zero information on production lines and how production planning happens.
9. There is no difference between designer and manufacturer.

The list goes on and on and on. I think @waz and @Oscar and @WebMaster have him here for entertainment. If it were up to @Horus he would be the Indian mod. The more you read, the more you come to the conclusion that

1. He was rejected by PSU organisations
2. He is part of the PR team of a private defence contractor.

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## callofduty

surya kiran said:


> Knowledge of Fartriot is as good as no knowledge.
> 
> Please find below examples of Fartriot's knowledge
> 
> 1. Nag is 4th generation
> 2. Artillery was not placed on hold by GoI
> 3. Kaveri was never sanctioned
> 4. Arjun CAG report does not exist and when provided with link does not read
> 5. Warhead and seeker differentiation is unheard of
> 6. IA procurement procedure is God's gift to mankind.
> 7. Does not know, that tenders which were only private sector were never fulfilled.
> 8. Zero information on production lines and how production planning happens.
> 9. There is no difference between designer and manufacturer.
> 
> The list goes on and on and on. I think @waz and @Oscar and @WebMaster have him here for entertainment. If it were up to @Horus he would be the Indian mod. The more you read, the more you come to the conclusion that
> 
> 1. He was rejected by PSU organisations
> 2. He is part of the PR team of a private defence contractor.



and one more example of a fish that lives in water.

do you know fish does not know the world outside in land and jungle,what kind of life is there outside.if the fish able to survive in land he would known that.that there is a another world.
so dont b the fish.b the lion.



callofduty said:


> and one more example of a fish that lives in water.
> 
> do you know fish does not know the world outside in land and jungle,what kind of life is there outside.if the fish able to survive in land he would known that.that there is a another world.
> so dont b the fish.b the lion.


you think fish with poison stinks and sharp jaws makes them deadliest predator. try dealing with lion or a croc. they will eat the fish



Argon Prime said:


> Are you the illegitimate brother of our Fartiot chap boyo??



a boy still in his dream.



Water Car Engineer said:


> That's done by OFB.
> 
> DRDO has done Abhay tech demonstrator
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with TATA, Kestral.




they all look like 1960 design.

see the striker with crows.



punit said:


> forget INSAS .. have u seen an OFB made .32 pistol ? i won trust my life with it !


great man.
a soldiers or a persons life is depends on its weapons during war.how would you trust insas.

please i request all of you please show something that can blow my mind.
if there is something out there.like a world class machine.that is made in india.


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## surya kiran

callofduty said:


> please i request all of you please show something that can blow my mind.
> if there is something out there.like a world class machine.that is made in india.



So as per your definition of 'Knowledge' a person who claimed all of the above, was proven wrong multiple times is 'Knowledgable'. 

Let's start with not blowing your mind. Please prove any of the stuff that your knowledgable friend has said. Else, just admit that you have nothing to add. Now, I am expecting a reply which will not have a fact but rant. PLEASE surprise me.

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## callofduty

surya kiran said:


> So as per your definition of 'Knowledge' a person who claimed all of the above, was proven wrong multiple times is 'Knowledgable'.
> 
> Let's start with not blowing your mind. Please prove any of the stuff that your knowledgable friend has said. Else, just admit that you have nothing to add. Now, I am expecting a reply which will not have a fact but rant. PLEASE surprise me.


it is 21 century man.you are living in 2015 and the future war is gonna be in future.
and the future tech is needed for a future war.a digital war,cyber war,unmanned robots war,war with lazer.war with not leaving your computer screen.or without leaving your home country.



surya kiran said:


> So as per your definition of 'Knowledge' a person who claimed all of the above, was proven wrong multiple times is 'Knowledgable'.
> 
> Let's start with not blowing your mind. Please prove any of the stuff that your knowledgable friend has said. Else, just admit that you have nothing to add. Now, I am expecting a reply which will not have a fact but rant. PLEASE surprise me.


and yeah i dont have any knowledge so what.
.at least i have question that u cant answer or do not have answers.
the question that is facts and true.

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## surya kiran

callofduty said:


> it is 21 century man.you are living in 2015 and the future war is gonna be in future.
> and the future tech is needed for a future war.a digital war,cyber war,unmanned robots war,war with lazer.war with not leaving your computer screen.or without leaving your home country.



Ok. So which army has unmanned robots or deployed lasers. Why do you assume that the tech is not currently under development? War is always fought depending on objectives. If you need ground troops you have to deploy ground troops. If you need pure surveillance, then you can do that with ELINT. But, let me assure you, without HUMINT all the ELINT in the world is of no use.

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## callofduty

surya kiran said:


> Ok. So which army has unmanned robots or deployed lasers. Why do you assume that the tech is not currently under development? War is always fought depending on objectives. If you need ground troops you have to deploy ground troops. If you need pure surveillance, then you can do that with ELINT. But, let me assure you, without HUMINT all the ELINT in the world is of no use.


so in short that means no high tech military equipments and robots for our military.

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## surya kiran

callofduty said:


> so in short that means no high tech military equipments and robots for our military.



No. It means you are talking of technologies which are under development. There are threads on this forum which deal specifically for weapons platforms. Why don't you spend some time reading? There are multiple labs, both private and public which are dealing with the same. 

For more, why don't you open a new thread where you can ask your queries and they can get answered? Keep an open mind. Avoid random venting and read what members write. Some members are chaps from the field. Cheers.

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## Argon Prime

callofduty said:


> so in short that means no high tech military equipments and robots for our military.



And I though you said you were quitting??So what happened pork chop,changed your mind??Or did you just said it for emotional blackmailing??Frankly,I feel sorry for your parents,they will have to bear your burden for lifetimes,cause judging by your level of intellect (or the apparent total lack of it),it's highly unlikely that you will ever be capable of fending for yourself.


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## callofduty

Argon Prime said:


> And I though you said you were quitting??So what happened pork chop,changed your mind??Or did you just said it for emotional blackmailing??Frankly,I feel sorry for your parents,they will have to bear your burden for lifetimes,cause judging by your level of intellect (or the apparent total lack of it),it's highly unlikely that you will ever be capable of fending for yourself.




you dumb @$$ i said i m quitting from the SF threat.
not from the site.
and why are u replying to me if u dont like me.

and i think ur parents are ashamed of u of being such a brilliant child.

this kid knows something from the net and want to teach others



surya kiran said:


> No. It means you are talking of technologies which are under development. There are threads on this forum which deal specifically for weapons platforms. Why don't you spend some time reading? There are multiple labs, both private and public which are dealing with the same.
> 
> For more, why don't you open a new thread where you can ask your queries and they can get answered? Keep an open mind. Avoid random venting and read what members write. Some members are chaps from the field. Cheers.



so that means i cannot even post here.
i cannot post to any thread.
i can only start a thread.
what is the meaning of this site then.



Argon Prime said:


> Frankly,I feel sorry for your parents,they will have to bear your burden for lifetimes,cause judging by your level of intellect (or the apparent total lack of it),it's highly unlikely that you will ever be capable of fending for yourself.



only reading few comments and post you managed to know me very well.
as long as i m here you gonna have to resist me.

the only drdo project i like is the drdo AURA.
cause it looks like the RQ-170.(which is a decade ahead)

does some1 has some details and info(not the wikipedia stuff).

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> DRDO has done Abhay tech demonstrator



Tech demonstrator is no excuse for sh1tty design. Design is not just for looks or beauty but it also affects many things like weight, mobility, weapons package etc.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Tech demonstrator is no excuse for sh1tty design. Design is not just for looks or beauty but it also affects many things like weight, mobility, weapons package etc.




Much of the tech developed in that demonstrator the private sector themselves will use for their own FICVs.

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## Indian Patriot

callofduty said:


> the only drdo project i like is the drdo AURA



Don't believe hype. DRDO makes a lot of hype like AURA, KALI, AMCA etc. Reality is INSAS, Abhay, Arjun etc.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Much of the tech developed in that demonstrator the private sector themselves will use for their own FICVs.



You are not getting the point.

Design is not for looks and beauty. The design of a vehicle shows how much weapons and other payload it can carry, how much weight it is able to distribute evenly which in turn affects in which kind of terrain it can operate. The speed, stealth and many other features are directly related to design. Not to mention logistics of the vehicle.

You cannot say DRDO made a sh1tty design just because they wanted to test the engine and nothing else. No wonder India is still struggling in weapons industry.



callofduty said:


> so that means i cannot even post here.
> i cannot post to any thread.
> i can only start a thread.
> what is the meaning of this site then.



Complain to the management if they ever threaten you from leaving this site or posting here. They do not own this place and have no such powers.

And these trolls think this site is a place for DRDO propaganda.

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Design is not for looks and beauty. The design of a vehicle shows how much weapons and other payload it can carry, how much weight it is able to distribute evenly which in turn affects in which kind of terrain it can operate. The speed, stealth and many other features are directly related to design. Not to mention logistics of the vehicle.
> 
> You cannot say DRDO made a sh1tty design just because they wanted to test the engine and nothing else. No wonder India is still struggling in weapons industry.



What are you talking about? It's a tech demo. It's tech, like it's composite armor, engine, gear system, FCC and other electronics, etc. will be funneled to the FICV by the private sector.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> What are you talking about? It's a tech demo.



Tech demo is not a excuse for sh1tty design. You don't taste the engine of a Ferrari by fitting it in a maruti 800 chasis. 

I hope you are being sarcastic about your title "engineer". Because if engineers like you exist in India then Allah malik.

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Tech demo is not a excuse for sh1tty design. You don't taste the engine of a Ferrari by fitting it in a maruti 800 chasis.
> 
> I hope you are being sarcastic about your title "engineer". Because if engineers like you exist in India then Allah malik.




Again, how do you know it's a shit design? Your much loved private sector will themselves ripe a part that platforms subsystem, and use it for their own platforms. Like it's armor. Which they've been doing several times now.


Yes, Im a water car engineer.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Again, how do you know it's a shit design?



Just compare that thing with German, South Korean, American, Russian designs and you will know. Even Turkey has better designs than DRDO. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Yes, Im a water car engineer.



yeah, it shows in your comments.

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Just compare that thing with German, South Korean, American, Russian designs and you will know. Even Turkey has better designs than DRDO.



It was designed for the intent of being a tech demo, nothing else. Was this an actual replacement for the BMP? Was there even a requirement for a replacement in the late 90s? No.

The actual operationalized FICV design, of which much of this, "shitty", tech like the composite armor, era panels, engine and other automotive systems, FCC and other electronics, will be used by your own favorite private sector.

It's probably already being leveraged in TATA early tracked chassis. They've already taken several drdo designs.









Indian Patriot said:


> yeah, it shows in your comments.



You should change your ID to constantlygetsowned, cause that's what your known for in this forum.

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## callofduty

Indian Patriot said:


> Don't believe hype. DRDO makes a lot of hype like AURA, KALI, AMCA etc. Reality is INSAS, Abhay, Arjun etc



we shouldnt leave in dreams ,i mean arjun what is that a iron box that shoot.(look at the challenger or merkava
)
and i will not talk about insas give me a .303 lee enfield riffle instead.



Indian Patriot said:


> Reality is INSAS, Abhay, Arjun etc.



and the rustom uav.
man what is that looks like a nazi German design and tech.



Water Car Engineer said:


> It was designed for the intent of being a tech demo, nothing else. Was this an actual replacement for the BMP? Was there even a requirement for a replacement in the late 90s? No.
> 
> The actual operationalized FICV design, of which much of this, "shitty", tech like the composite armor, era panels, engine and other automotive systems, FCC and other electronics, will be used by your own favorite private sector.
> 
> It's probably already being leveraged in TATA early tracked chassis. They've already taken several drdo designs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should change your ID to constantlygetsowned, cause that's what your known for in this forum.


what is that man looks like a WW2 APC.

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## Argon Prime

callofduty said:


> what is that man looks like a WW2 APC.



So true.And do you know who made it??You guessed it right - the TATAs,haha,whose dick you and your fartiot brother loves to suck so much you motherr fuckking asshole!!



Indian Patriot said:


> Tech demo is not a excuse for sh1tty design. You don't taste the engine of a Ferrari by fitting it in a maruti 800 chasis.
> 
> I hope you are being sarcastic about your title "engineer". Because if engineers like you exist in India then Allah malik.



And how do you know the design is shitt??Oh I know- you have got masters in shit talking,which was granted to you by that crack whore you call your mum,right??


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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> It was designed for the intent of being a tech demo, nothing else.



How do you demonstrate the tech of a moden engine in an obsolete design? The Germans do not demonstrate the tech of Leo2 on W2 era Tiger tank? Nice try at trolling but no points for you kid. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> You should change your ID to constantlygetsowned, cause that's what your known for in this forum.



Opinion of morons like you don't really matter to me so stick to your social circle kid. If only you were educated.



callofduty said:


> and the rustom uav.
> man what is that looks like a nazi German design and tech.



Nazi Germans had better tech than DRDO.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Nazi Germans had better tech than DRDO.





Right, call someone an idiot and a kid and you make a statement like this, go else where and get owned.

It's also funny you talk so much about the private sector in every other thread, but you're too stupid to not know that those same guys are leeching off of DRDO's programs, or out right asking for their designs. Good one idiot.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Right, call someone and idiot and a kid and you make a statement like this, go else where and get owned.



Who will own, a loser like you? LOL!!



Water Car Engineer said:


> It's also funny you talk so much about the private sector in every other thread, but you're too stupid to not know that those same guys are leeching off of DRDO's programs, or out right asking for their designs. Good one idiot.



They are not.

DRDO is leeching off foreign designs hat is why he beggars always demand TOT from foreign sellers. That is why the LCA was rotting for a decade because USA refused to sell engines. Yea, that is the level of DRDO merit.

Don't even start on DRDO. Only fools whose rozi roti comes from DRDO corruption believe those sad losers are up to any good.

Seeing you are a water car engineer, I think you are also affilioated tp the loser club called DRDO.


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## Argon Prime

Indian Patriot said:


> How do you demonstrate the tech of a moden engine in an obsolete design? The Germans do not demonstrate the tech of Leo2 on W2 era Tiger tank? Nice try at trolling but no points for you kid.



Clearly you have got no idea of what you are talking about.........as always.





Indian Patriot said:


> Opinion of morons like you don't really matter to me so stick to your social circle kid. If only you were educated.


Hahaha,the guy who is the biggest imbecile in the world is calling others morons.PDF never ceases to amuse me.





Indian Patriot said:


> Nazi Germans had better tech than DRDO.


Yeah yeah,say the illegitimate son of a crack whore.

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> DRDO is leeching off foreign designs hat is why he beggars always demand TOT from foreign sellers. That is why the LCA was rotting for a decade because USA refused to sell engines. Yea, that is the level of DRDO merit.
> 
> Don't even start on DRDO. Only fools whose rozi roti comes from DRDO corruption believe those sad losers are up to any good.
> 
> Seeing you are a water car engineer, I think you are also affilioated tp the loser club called DRDO.





Again, you're an idiot. They are, and it's well known they are working along DRDO, and taking their designs. It just shows how clueless you are.


Data Pattern, TATAs, Mahindras, L&Ts, Alpha Design Tech, etc, etc, etc. have taken DRDO designs, or have worked with them on several occasions, or want in on their future projects.

You're the only idiot in here talking shit about DRDO, cause no prv sector is doing so.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Again, you're an idiot. They are, and it's well known they are working along DRDO, and talking their designs. It just shows how clueless you are.



Again you are a loser. How many projects has DRDO successfully completed? ZERO. 

Private sector is not taking DRDO designs you loser, LOL!! TATA and Ashok Leyland are collaborating with foreign firms to design MRAP vehicles, Kalyani and TATA are working with foreign firms to design 155 mm artillery. 

It just shows how shameless lairs you are. Cannot design a water jug and you want to design a water car.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Again you are a loser. How many projects has DRDO successfully completed? ZERO.
> 
> Private sector is not taking DRDO designs you loser, LOL!! TATA and Ashok Leyland are collaborating with foreign firms to design MRAP vehicles, Kalyani and TATA are working with foreign firms to design 155 mm artillery.
> 
> It just shows how shameless lairs you are. Cannot design a water jug and you want to design a water car.




You stupid idiot.






Brahmos Terminal Seeker, by Data Pattern

Also many of their airborne and naval displays are from DRDO too.














NAG, CLGM seekers, by Alpha Tech










Launch systems for DRDO missiles, TATA










Modular Bridging system, L&T

UAVs like DRDO's target drones and launch systems are being produced by them as well.

Private sector haven't even been in the sector that long in a serious way, and it's already well known they've taken several DRDO labs designs. (Not to a moron like you though)

And where do you think many of the subsystems of their FICV will come from? Or something like it's armor tech, idiot?

And this is only the beginning dumbass, they want to produce DRDO's MALE UAVs, like Rustom 2s and artillery pieces.

India To Partner With Private Firms To Build Combat Drone
DRDO Holds Parleys with Tata, L&T, BEL for Howitzers

All the CEOs of these private companies will collectively slap the shit out of you if you get in their way of these deals.

You're the only idiot making a fool out of yourself in ever thread, talking non sense.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> You stupid idiot.



I didn't ask your name. I asked you to list achievements of DRDO which is practically none.

DRDO is yet to successfully complete any of their projects, success and failure are a distant dream. Don't post pictures of catalogs like a dumb idiot. Post pictures of DRDO engines and systems in service.

It is DRDO which needs to ride the coat-tails of private sector to survive in he market. Dumbass like you should be slapped the shit out for posting fake stories. 

You are a moron posting nonsense and expecting people to believe your lies. Tell your beloved DRDO to work on their ongoing projects and completing them first before taking on new ones. DRDO survives because of public funding. They have zero sales and would have been extinct withint their first decade.

And why are you hiding your shame behind private sector companies like TATA, Larsen and Toubro and other private firms? It just shows how INCOMPETENT DRDO is that private sectors have caught up so fast and already overtook a defunct and obsolete organisation that had been kept alive all these decades by public funds?

All the cute pictures you posted are developed or are being developed by PRIVATE SECTOR and not PSU and worthless POS like DRDO. 

Its a shame that half-educated morons like you are dime a dozen in the Indian group.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> I didn't ask your name. I asked you to list achievements of DRDO which is practically none.
> 
> DRDO is yet to successfully complete any of their projects, success and failure are a distant dream. Don't post pictures of catalogs like a dumb idiot. Post pictures of DRDO engines and systems in service.
> 
> It is DRDO which needs to ride the coat-tails of private sector to survive in he market. Dumbass like you should be slapped the shit out for posting fake stories.
> 
> You are a moron posting nonsense and expecting people to believe your lies. Tell your beloved DRDO to work on their ongoing projects and completing them first before taking on new ones. DRDO survives because of public funding. They have zero sales and would have been extinct withint their first decade.
> 
> And why are you hiding your shame behind private sector companies like TATA, Larsen and Toubro and other private firms? It just shows how INCOMPETENT DRDO is that private sectors have caught up so fast and already overtook a defunct and obsolete organisation that had been kept alive all these decades by public funds?
> 
> All the cute pictures you posted are developed or are being developed by PRIVATE SECTOR and not PSU and worthless POS like DRDO.
> 
> Its a shame that half-educated morons like you are dime a dozen in the Indian group.



"Private sector is not taking DRDO designs you loser"
"All the cute pictures you posted are developed or are being developed by PRIVATE SECTOR and not PSU and worthless POS like DRDO. "



You are one stupid idiot. They are all developed by DRDO labs, but instead of giving the rights to manufacture to OFB, BEL, etc. like it's usually done, they're giving it to the private sector.  Most people on this forum know this, that's why they find you a moron.

You think systems like the Akash launcher is totally developed by TATA, right? But why does L&T produce them too? Because they both got the rights to manufacturing it from DRDO.

You're the only one here fighting about this, the private sector themselves wouldn't be on your side, because they blatantly want to produce DRDO created subsystems, and eventually whole systems.

Get used to the PPP trend, dumbass.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> You are one stupid idiot. They are all developed by DRDO labs, but instead of giving the rights to manufacture to OFB, BEL, etc. like it's usually done, they're giving it to the private sector.  Most people on this forum know this, that's why they find you a moron.



No, they are NOT designed by any DRDO labs. DRDO has not being able to design ANYTHING without ACTIVE foreign assistance. 

Most Indians in this forum are idiots like you and that's why your opinion counts for nothing. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> You think systems like the Akash launcher is totally developed by TATA, right? But why does L&T produce them too? Because they both got the rights to manufacturing it from DRDO.



Who said anything about Akash launcher? The missile itself is a copy of Russian design but DRDO bhakts like you would not know that. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> You're the only one here fighting about this, the private sector themselves wouldn't be on your side, because they blatantly want to produce DRDO created subsystems, and eventually whole systems.



Private sector DOES NOT want to produce DRDO sh1t. Private sector wants to produce defense goods thats why Kalyani, TATA, Mahindra, L&T are wooing BAE, Denel etc. because DRDO is sh1t.

Get used to DRDO being kicked into obsolesce you dumbass.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> No, they are NOT designed by any DRDO labs. DRDO has not being able to design ANYTHING without ACTIVE foreign assistance.
> 
> Most Indians in this forum are idiots like you and that's why your opinion counts for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said anything about Akash launcher? The missile itself is a copy of Russian design but DRDO bhakts like you would not know that.
> 
> 
> 
> Private sector DOES NOT want to produce DRDO sh1t. Private sector wants to produce defense goods thats why Kalyani, TATA, Mahindra, L&T are wooing BAE, Denel etc. because DRDO is sh1t.
> 
> Get used to DRDO being kicked into obsolesce you dumbass.



You're an idiot. Agni launcher, AAD/parhaar, nirbhay, etc launchers are Russian too, right dumbass?

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## cloud_digger

Dude water car, let it go man, that guy is an obvious troll, u r wasting your breath trying to explain things to him that he clearly knows already but refuses to accept. 
Whats that saying? You can drag a horse to the river, but you cannot make it drink.... Or something like that. Let it go. Let's concentrate on what DRDO is doing and how we think they can do better.
There will always be little runts like callofduty and what not that will get pulled in by his rhetoric, who says idiots dont exist in india?? We are afterall a billion strong. We can explain to all billion but all of them wont see the truth (Re: horse). Do our bit and move along.
Not saying DRDO is the best or it is without faults, its just not how patriot is portraying.

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## Water Car Engineer

cloud_digger said:


> Dude water car, let it go man, that guy is an obvious troll, u r wasting your breath trying to explain things to him that he clearly knows already but refuses to accept.
> Whats that saying? You can drag a horse to the river, but you cannot make it drink.... Or something like that. Let it go. Let's concentrate on what DRDO is doing and how we think they can do better.
> There will always be little runts like callofduty and what not that will get pulled in by his rhetoric, who says idiots dont exist in india?? We are afterall a billion strong. We can explain to all billion but all of them wont see the truth (Re: horse). Do our bit and move along.
> Not saying DRDO is the best or it is without faults, its just not how patriot is portraying.




Yeah, you're right.

Ontopic.












> The top scientist looking after the development of the Small Arms informed us that the MCIWS Assault Rifle will be ready for trials by December 2015 – January 2016 for trials. Beaming with confidence they boasted of the mastery achieved over the metallurgy that will produce the world’s one of the finest weapons
> 
> in its class. The body of the MCIWS under development is made up of a single block of very high grade aluminium alloy. The rivet-less body makes the weapon more resilient to combat stress. The modular design makes the weapon unique and extremely soldier friendly. A soldier will be able to field strip MCIWS without any tool by just removing a pin.
> 
> The deadly looking weapon likely to become the basic weapon of an Infantryman has a multi calibre option between 5.56 x 45 mm, 6.8 x 43 mm and 7.62 x 39 mm. It is capable of firing different calibre ammunition by changing barrel group, breech block and the magazine while retaining 92 per cent of commonality of parts. This affords the Army a choice between going in for a multi-calibre or a single calibre weapon as the case may be.
> 
> It is lightweight and modular in design having multiple picatinny rails for sighting system and foregrip. The already under production, indigenous 40 mm Under Barrel Grenade Launcher fitted with MCIWS makes it a very lethal combination. The air bursting grenade having a range of 500 m could work havoc on the enemy defiladed behind at those ranges.






> The MCIWS is a highly impressive weapon system. On July 13, 2015, a composite team comprising Director General of Para Military and representatives of various forces under the Additional Home Secretary visited ARDE. This weapon had impressed the visiting team and they are now willing to induct MCIWS for use by the BSF, CRPF, ITBP, CISF and the SSB as soon as possible. The strength of Indian paramilitary forces outnumber that of the Indian Army. This move could boost the sagging morale of the scientists whose tremendous efforts have constantly been overlooked thus far. And also, the MCIWS will give a huge impetus to those fighting the Naxal insurgency and may well prove to be a game changer.














> _Another ARDE official, meanwhile, informed that apart from MCIWS Assault Rifle, other weapons and weapons system are also being worked on including a Joint Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC)._The user trials of which were recently conducted involved the German MP-7 and Belgium P-90, our JVPC fared better than the other two. Commenting upon the irrationality overshadowing the logic during trials, he cited the unnecessary non-critical tests responsible for delayed induction. He informed us that as that as per the GSQR laid down, this carbine was required to pass through 99.7 per cent reliability test. All the weapons (JVPC) tested were proved above 99 per cent reliable. However, six out of the lot were above 99.5 per cent thus largely bracketing them between 99.4 to 99.5 per cent reliable. All necessary changes are being incorporated to pass through the stringency of the tests. He said 50 JVPC will be provided to the Army for fresh trials in January 2016.




Multi-Calibre Assault Rifle: Made in India vs Make in India » Indian Defence Review

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> Yeah, you're right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multi-Calibre Assault Rifle: Made in India vs Make in India » Indian Defence Review


Get it in service ASAP, the IA is still using the pre WW2 era Sten gun and they are arguing over a 0.2% differential from GSQRs- incredible!

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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Get it in service ASAP, the IA is still using the pre WW2 era Sten gun and they are arguing over a 0.2% differential from GSQRs- incredible!




For real!! .2% difference and it fared well against outside competitors like the P90 and MP7?? Bro, that thing has been re trialed over, and over, and over again!!

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## Argon Prime

Water Car Engineer said:


> For real!! .2% difference and it fared well against outside competitors like the P90 and MP7?? Bro, that thing has been re trialed over, and over, and over again!!



If I recall correctly,the biggest problem of this MSMC aka JVPC,is its high recoil and resulting high muzzle rise during long bursts,which could not be rectified even after repeated attempts to do so by the designers in the ARDE.I guess Indian Army should adopt the Amogh Carbine to replace its WWII era Sterling SMGs.



Abingdonboy said:


> Get it in service ASAP, the IA is still using the pre WW2 era Sten gun and they are arguing over a 0.2% differential from GSQRs- incredible!



That's IFA (Indian Foreign Army) for you!!

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> You're an idiot. Agni launcher, AAD/parhaar, nirbhay, etc launchers are Russian too, right dumbass?



Yes they are indeed Russian designs. China, north korea, India and indirectly pakistan have all build their missiles from Russian inspired designs. But why am I talking these things with you? An illiterate idiot like you would not be even able to tell the fine lines between American ICBMs and Russian ICBMs.

By the way does a moron like you know whether Indian ballistic missiles are liquid fueled or solid fueled? Does an illiterate like you even know what fuel means?



cloud_digger said:


> Dude water car, let it go man, that guy is an obvious troll, u r wasting your breath trying to explain things to him that he clearly knows already but refuses to accept.
> Whats that saying? You can drag a horse to the river, but you cannot make it drink.... Or something like that. Let it go. Let's concentrate on what DRDO is doing and how we think they can do better.
> There will always be little runts like callofduty and what not that will get pulled in by his rhetoric, who says idiots dont exist in india?? We are afterall a billion strong. We can explain to all billion but all of them wont see the truth (Re: horse). Do our bit and move along.
> Not saying DRDO is the best or it is without faults, its just not how patriot is portraying.



Another DRDO bhakt. How many successful projects has DRDO completed so far?



Abingdonboy said:


> Get it in service ASAP, the IA is still using the pre WW2 era Sten gun and they are arguing over a 0.2% differential from GSQRs- incredible!



The MCIWS does not exist other than mere prototypes. People have a hard time understanding that DRDO CANNOT make a good rifle because DRDO is devoid of good scientists and engineers. It is a government sector unit and the best brains in India either go abroad or join the private sector which is driven by meritocracy.

The IA is looking to import rifles because they know what DRDO makes is sh1t. Now some bhakts here who have never seen a real rifle in their life or think that water can power cars believe they know more about weapons than the army who use the said weapons and risk their lives.

The opinion of such dumb bhakts count for nothing. The army who is the end user has called DRDO sh1t and their products even bigger pieces of sh1t. INSAS failed, Arjun failed, Tejas failed, arty guns don't exist, IFV don't exist. For what are the obsolete DRDO retards taking public money for?



Water Car Engineer said:


> For real!! .2% difference and it fared well against outside competitors like the P90 and MP7?? Bro, that thing has been re trialed over, and over, and over again!!



Now the bhakt thinks MSMC is better than MP7 and P90. That is why no armed force outside of India is interested in these pieces of sh1t.

To make them feel better bhakts come up with lies that Oman imported INSAS rifles when there is not a single picture of Oman soldiers using INSAS. Bhakts are known for lying and their lack of integrity.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Yes they are indeed Russian designs. China, north korea, India and indirectly pakistan have all build their missiles from Russian inspired designs. But why am I talking these things with you? An illiterate idiot like you would not be even able to tell the fine lines between American ICBMs and Russian ICBMs.
> 
> By the way does a moron like you know whether Indian ballistic missiles are liquid fueled or solid fueled? Does an illiterate like you even know what fuel means?



Oh wow, those designs are indirectly inspired from Russian missiles? Great dumbass, the US, Russian space and missile program came indirectly, and cases like with Von Braun or other imported Nazi scientist, directly from the Nazis. So did several other concepts from assault rifles to cruise missiles.

The Russians didnt flatout over see the Agni, etc. projects for India. They cant even help India with a cruise missile beyond 290km, let alone ballistic missiles.Nor did they give them designs of the launchers for DRDO's own missiles, which DRDO gave the transfer of tech to your favorite private sector to produce.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Oh wow, those designs are indirectly inspired from Russian missiles? Great dumbass, the US, Russian space and missile program came indirectly, and cases like with Von Braun, directly from the Nazis. So did several other concepts from assault rifles to cruise missiles.



And who says they didn't? US and USSR copied German designs and every country henceforth copied from either US or mostly from Russia. But an illiterate like you won't understand such simple things because you lack education.

You want to believe DRDO can make a ICBM but they cannot even copy a basic thing like AK-47? Oh wait, a dumb dumb like you does not even know that the INSAS was a pathetic attempt by DRDO to copy and reverse engineer the kalashnikov, did you? One look at the difference of designs between AK-47 and INSAS shows how stupid and retarded DRDO employees are.



Water Car Engineer said:


> The Russians didnt flatout over see the Agni, etc. projects for India. Nor did they give them design of the launchers for DRDO's own missiles, which DRDO gave the transfer of tech to the private sector to produce.



The Russians did not flat out oversee Chinese made copies either and neither did Germans flat out oversee US or USSR designs. But I keep forgetting that I am arguing with an illiterate idiot like you whose knowledge runs into negative integers. You do know what interger is right, and you know integer in mathematics is different from intezaar in Hindi language?

DRDO gave nothing to private sector. If DRDO was successful then there would have been no reason to involve private sector in the first place. During Nehruvian era defence was concentrated into public sector because the government did not trust the private entrepreneurs. But seeing the mess that PSUs has become post 1990 onwards there has been a slow but steady up scale of private sector kicking out DRDO.

It takes TATA less than a decade to team up with Denel to build their truck mounted 52 cal 155 mm howitzer. Where is DRDO made howitzer? DRDO cannot even design a 155 mm gun, why because their Russian fathers did not share the technology? Papa Russia did not help so INSAS became a junk. 

What is the export of DRDO? A country as small as pakistan and whose industrial infrastructure is far weaker than India is exporting surveillance drones to USA. Are you even aware that pakistan has better military export figures than India? Just how educated are you, matric appeared?

Not a single country in a planet of 190+ countries is interested in DRDO made weapons which itself speaks a lot just how sh1tty DRDO made products are. But please be a bhakt, you bhakts provide a lot of entertainment.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> It takes TATA less than a decade to team up with Denel to build their truck mounted 52 cal 155 mm howitzer. Where is DRDO made howitzer? DRDO cannot even design a 155 mm gun, why because their Russian fathers did not share the technology? Papa Russia did not help so INSAS became a junk.



All they did was put Denel designed artillery piece/system onto their TATA truck. Ashok Leyland did the same with Nexter. They didnt design shit, they just want to produce outsourced designs to eventually bring out their own subsystems/systems later on.

You're out here thinking you're smart shit and think TATA, AL was the serious partner out of them and Denel and Nexter? 

Dude, Denel, Nexter will offer that same package to any other vehicle company or grandma trying to get into the defence game, if the money is right. 


And DRDO has a 155mm in development, and guess who wants to get a hold of it, dumbass? A whole lot of the private sector.

DRDO Holds Parleys with Tata, L&T, BEL for Howitzers




> DRDO gave nothing to private sector. If DRDO was successful then there would have been no reason to involve private sector in the first place.




This is why you're an idiot, showed you several examples of them flatout taking DRDO designs.

Like I said, at this stage in their growth, they'll take from anywhere, DRDO, Denel, Supacat, BAE, etc, etc. To eventually build a base to bring out their own designs.

And these private firms dont have nothing against DRDO, unlike your dumbass, for them it's another source to get tech.

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## Argon Prime

Water Car Engineer said:


> All they did was put Denel designed artillery piece/system onto their TATA truck. Ashok Leyland did the same with Nexter. They didnt design shit, they just want to produce outsourced designs to eventually bring out their own subsystems/systems later on.
> 
> You're out here thinking you're smart shit and think TATA, AL was the serious partner out of them and Denel and Nexter?
> 
> Dude, Denel, Nexter will offer that same package to any other vehicle company or grandma trying to get into the defence game, if the money is right.
> 
> 
> And DRDO has a 155mm in development, and guess who wants to get a hold of it, dumbass? A whole lot of the private sector.
> 
> DRDO Holds Parleys with Tata, L&T, BEL for Howitzers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why you're an idiot, showed you several examples of them flatout taking DRDO designs.
> 
> Like I said, at this stage in their growth, they'll take from anywhere, DRDO, Denel, Supacat, BAE, etc, etc. To eventually build a base to bring out their own designs.
> 
> And these private firms dont have nothing against DRDO, unlike your dumbass, for them it's another source to get tech.



You gotta admit it young man,the bugger is kinda cute,ain't it??

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> All they did was put Denel designed artillery piece/system onto their TATA truck. Ashok Leyland did the same with Nexter. They didnt design shit, they just want to produce outsourced designs to eventually bring out their own subsystems/systems later on.



Problem is DRDO CANNOT do something even as basic as that because DRDo cannot even design a truck. Do not talk like DRDO designs are world famous and envied by all, DRDO does not make the shitt1est designs in the world, not by a long margin. Do you know why? Because DRDO cannot even design in the first place. Even for buying a pencil they will need TOT. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> You're out here thinking you're smart shit and think TATA, AL was the serious partner out of them and Denel and Nexter?



This is the kind of response you get from morons who are matric appeared. 

Unlike DRDO which wasted 40 years and billions of dollars of public tax money TATA found a working solution. They knew they don't have the expertise yet to build a gun from scratch so they teamed up with a foreign partner and came up with a new contraption. Do you know the word contraption or do I need to explain this to a uneducated bhakt like you?

That is called professionalism, by TATA. Now what does your beloved DRDO do? They know they can't produce sh1t without medical assistance but they are too full of sh1t to admit that they are failure. So they will waste 40 years and billions of dollars and all they can emit is volumes of empty gas. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Dude, Denel, Nexter will offer that same package to any other vehicle company or grandma trying to get into the defence game, if the money is right.



Yes they will. But dumb dumbs like you don't know what business means and I don't have the patience to explain to you about business. You won't get it any way, you are too weak between your ears.

If TATA can approach Denel then WTF was stopping DRDO from approaching foreigners to make a howitzer?



Water Car Engineer said:


> And DRDO has a 155mm in development, and guess who wants to get a hold of it, dumbass? A whole lot of the private sector.



WITHOUT private sector assistance DRDO 155 mm gun will remain permanently "in development". 

It takes DRDO 26 years to reverse engineer the Bofors, reverse engineer NOT ORIGINAL DESIGN, and bhakts like you are thumping the chest like DRDO has won the world. You bhakts are simply too pathetic to be laughed at.



Water Car Engineer said:


> This is why you're an idiot, showed you several examples of them flatout taking DRDO designs.
> 
> Like I said, at this stage in their growth, they'll take from anywhere, DRDO, Denel, Supacat, BAE, etc, etc. To eventually build a base to bring out their own designs.
> 
> And these private firms dont have nothing against DRDO, unlike your dumbass, for them it's another source to get tech.



*There are NO DRDO designs. 
*
Whatever DRDO has made is imported technology obtained by TOT. 

Private sectors would use their money investing in BAE, Denel etc. instead of failures like DRDO. Mahindra tied up with freoign companies to make up MRAP while DRDO is still trying to find out what is the full form of MRAP.


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## Argon Prime

@Water Car Engineer ,my boy,here we go again!!Fartiot farts again.

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> It takes DRDO 26 years to reverse engineer the Bofors, reverse engineer NOT ORIGINAL DESIGN, and bhakts like you are thumping the chest like DRDO has won the world. You bhakts are simply too pathetic to be laughed at.




Do you ever know what you're even talking about in this forum? That's OFB, why must you be such an idiot all the time?



> That is called professionalism, by TATA. Now what does your beloved DRDO do? They know they can't produce sh1t without medical assistance but they are too full of sh1t to admit that they are failure. So they will waste 40 years and billions of dollars and all they can emit is volumes of empty gas.




Beloved DRDO? No, I dont care for DRDO like that. I just telling you what it is.

They've taken from DRDO labs, I gave you several example. This is simple fact. You're too brain dead to let that sink in.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Do you ever know what you're even talking about in this forum? That's OFB, why must you be such an idiot all the time?



I understand you are an illiterate but I thought you knew what DRDO stands for, at least in paper, *Defence Research and Development Organisation. 
*
Since the Bofors scandal India faced a severe crisis in 155 mm gun shortage. As the defence *RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT* organisation it was the task of DRDO to design and build a 155 mm gun because surpirse surprise that is their primary job. 

What prevented DRDO from designing their gun? Simple answer, the losers did not know how to design a gun. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> They've taken from DRDO labs, I gave you several example. This is simple fact. You're too brain dead to let that sink in.



DRDO LABS? ROFLOL!!!

DRDO is nothing without foreign TOT. But bhakts like you are too empty between their ears. You did not give any example, *you just showed PRIVATE sector doing in years what DRDO FAILED to do in DECADES. 
*
Where is DRDO designed MRAP?


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## surya kiran

Someone please call farty to the laser thread. the fart has blocked me.



Indian Patriot said:


> What prevented DRDO from designing their gun? Simple answer, the losers did not know how to design a gun.


dumass, they were not allowed to after bofors. Remmeber the scandal? Oooo sorry. I already told you this in each and every thread 10 times. But then....farty you are so cute!

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## Argon Prime

surya kiran said:


> Someone please call farty to the laser thread. the fart has blocked me.


Kyun beta,us a66i khasi thread ki balatkaar karwane par tula hua hain?? 




surya kiran said:


> dumass, they were not allowed to after bofors. Remmeber the scandal?


Dhanushnot even a DRDO project,it's the sole responsibility of the OFB................Gun Carriage Factory,Jabbalpur to be precise,DRDO provided only the digital FCS and sighting systems and the ACCS Shakti algorithms. But it's too much for farti's brain to catch any of it.Poor Gand-fatti Farty. 


surya kiran said:


> Oooo sorry. I already told you this in each and every thread 10 times.


Well,nothing to be surprised.It's the famous Farty the Idiot we are talking about after all. 


surya kiran said:


> But then....farty you are so cute!


That's true,he's even cuter than Bugs Bunny!!Bugger is good entertainment,in fact, great entertainment.PDF would sure me much boring without this little chihuahua.

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> DRDO LABS? ROFLOL!!!
> 
> DRDO is nothing without foreign TOT. But bhakts like you are too empty between their ears. You did not give any example, *you just showed PRIVATE sector doing in years what DRDO FAILED to do in DECADES.
> *
> Where is DRDO designed MRAP?




I showed you several DRDO made products that private firms produce. This is FACT idiot, they got ToT from DRDO for all of those products/subsystems. No different from what they do with firms outside India.

You saying it's not true doesnt make it right. 



> Since the Bofors scandal India faced a severe crisis in 155 mm gun shortage.




Was that DRDO's fault, idiot? That was purely an Indian political fault for not even BUYING anything this whole time. You have already discussed this with several member here about this, and you got owned.

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## Argon Prime

Water Car Engineer said:


> I showed you several DRDO produced products that private firms produce. This is FACT idiot, they got ToT from DRDO for all those products.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that DRDO's fault, idiot? That was purely an Indian political fault for not even BUYING anything this whole time. You have already discussed this with several member here about this, and you got owned.



We're loving it,keep owning this bugger like this my boy!!

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> I showed you several DRDO made products that private firms produce. This is FACT idiot, they got ToT from DRDO for all of those products/subsystems. No different from what they do with firms outside India.
> 
> You saying it's not true doesnt make it right.



DRDO made products? LOL!! No, DRDO takes tech from foreign companies they don't design anything. Your smileys only show your helplessness and does not add value to the topic. But it is said smileys are the last resort for illiterates. 

Mahindra, TATA, L&T did NOT reach DRDO to make MRAPS or 155 mm arty guns, they approached foreign companies. But a dehati like you living under a rock won't get it. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Was that DRDO's fault, idiot?



It is you andh bhakt, DRDO is responsible for making and building domestic weapon systems. DRDO can't make anything so IA goes 26 years without a single new 155mm gun being inducted.



Water Car Engineer said:


> That was purely an Indian political fault for not even BUYING anything this whole time.



Imports and foreign companies were blacklisted, NOT DRDO.



Water Car Engineer said:


> You have already discussed this with several member here about this, and you got owned.



Ah, the typical andh bhakt refuge, resort to lies when you run out of facts. 

While normal people lie about being rich, having lots of girl friends, being on exotic and such trivial matters the DRDO andh bhakts lie about how great DRDO is and how critics of DRDO get owned.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> DRDO made products? LOL!! No, DRDO takes tech from foreign companies they don't design anything. Your smileys only show your helplessness and does not add value to the topic. But it is said smileys are the last resort for illiterates.
> 
> Mahindra, TATA, L&T did NOT reach DRDO to make MRAPS or 155 mm arty guns, they approached foreign companies. But a dehati like you living under a rock won't get it.




Helplessness, no, the smiley are there because I think you're an fing idiot. Who keeps avoiding the facts.

You can keep saying it's not true, but this is plain fact. They took ToT straight from DRDO labs, several times. 

Mahindra, TATA, L&T, Data Pattern, etc. didn't reach DRDO for MRAPs? Okay, but they sure as hell have for seekers, modular bridges, several electronic subsystems, UAVs, rights to produce DRDO missile launchers, and in the future MALE UAVs, artillery pieces, etc.

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## Not So Good

Argon Prime said:


> You gotta admit it young man,the bugger is kinda cute,ain't it??


From his knowledge on subject I bet he is a miyaan from across the border ,just take a look at his comments in past 2 months

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## cloud_digger

Argon Prime said:


> If I recall correctly,the biggest problem of this MSMC aka JVPC,is its high recoil and resulting high muzzle rise during long bursts,which could not be rectified even after repeated attempts to do so by the designers in the ARDE.I guess Indian Army should adopt the Amogh Carbine to replace its WWII era Sterling SMGs.
> 
> 
> 
> That's IFA (Indian Foreign Army) for you!!



So, is the recoil issue still persisting or have they resolved it?? I really like this rifle, a home grown solution. It will not be the best rifle outright but just as this is an improvement over previous Indian rifles the next models will get closer to the world standards. Have to start somewhere.


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## Argon Prime

cloud_digger said:


> So, is the recoil issue still persisting or have they resolved it?? I really like this rifle, a home grown solution. It will not be the best rifle outright but just as this is an improvement over previous Indian rifles the next models will get closer to the world standards. Have to start somewhere.



There is no problem with the Rifle,at least not that we are aware of at the moment.I was talking about the MSMC sub machine gun - that one is more or less dead.I guess the Army would pick the Amogh Carbine in its place,it has already been adopted by the Navy.Lets see what happens.



Not So Good said:


> From his knowledge on subject I bet he is a miyaan from across the border ,just take a look at his comments in past 2 months



I know Ms Robyn Lawley. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Helplessness, no, the smiley are there because I think you're an fing idiot. Who keeps avoiding the facts.
> 
> You can keep saying it's not true, but this is plain fact. They took ToT straight from DRDO labs, several times.
> 
> Mahindra, TATA, L&T, Data Pattern, etc. didn't reach DRDO for MRAPs? Okay, but they sure as hell have for seekers, modular bridges, several electronic subsystems, UAVs, rights to produce DRDO missile launchers, and in the future MALE UAVs, artillery pieces, etc.



And do not forget the FMBT either,cause the way things are moving,I won't be too surprised if the FRCV dhkosla turns out to be another let down,in fact,it's more or less a given by now.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Helplessness, no, the smiley are there because I think you're an fing idiot. Who keeps avoiding the facts.



Your thoughts count for nothing because you are an illiterate, thus by default your smileys only highlight your helplessness. Fact is DRDO is a failure and has zero exports. Or does a bhakt like you doubt that?



Water Car Engineer said:


> You can keep saying it's not true, but this is plain fact. They took ToT straight from DRDO labs, several times.



Please provide proof for your tall claims. And make sure the sources are verified, I don't want you to look like a fool when you bhakts claimed Oman imported INSAS rifles. You andh bhaks will claim anything just to feel good, even white lies. 

It is DRDO who takes TOT from foreign countries, know why? Because DRDO is too dumb to come up with anything original. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Mahindra, TATA, L&T, Data Pattern, etc. didn't reach DRDO for MRAPs?



DRDO knows he full form of MRAP?



Water Car Engineer said:


> Okay, but they sure as hell have for seekers, modular bridges, several electronic subsystems, UAVs, rights to produce DRDO missile launchers, and in the future MALE UAVs, artillery pieces, etc.



Bridges? You seriously think the bridges deployed by army are DRDO design? WOW!! 

And as for all the fancy suff you quoted its again a product of your over fertilised imagination which you need to back up with a smiley to make yourself feel its credible when it is not. 

DRDO is yet to come up with their own UAV while pakistan is EXPORTING UAVs to USA. 
And do not talk about "in future", in future DRDO may sell spaceships but first tell your beloved DRDO to come up with a working 5.56 mm caliber rifle in the first place.

As for artillery, TATA obviously thought Denel is a better choice than DRDO. DRDO cannot even make a prototype 155 mm gun in 26 years and you expect private players to approach DRDO? At least learn to lie properly you numbskull. 

What is DRDO?

It is a failed organisation that has failed to correctly COPY the AK-47. Somalis are able to cpy ak-47 but not DRDO.

It is a failure that cannot even make their own engine for tanks and aircraft. 

It has ZERO export orders in a plane of 190 countries.



Not So Good said:


> From his knowledge on subject I bet he is a miyaan from across the border ,just take a look at his comments in past 2 months



Aww cutie wanted to talk cute but got banned instead.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> As for artillery, TATA obviously thought Denel is a better choice than DRDO. DRDO cannot even make a prototype 155 mm gun in 26 years and you expect private players to approach DRDO? At least learn to lie properly you numbskull.




TATA took from Denel, as well as DRDO, idiot. Already showed you several DRDO launchers it produces, and is currently working with DRDO on the Kestral.







And in future wants to produce DRDO's 155mm artillery piece as well.




> Your thoughts count for nothing because you are an illiterate, thus by default your smileys only highlight your helplessness. Fact is DRDO is a failure and has zero exports. Or does a bhakt like you doubt that?



It's not helplessness, it's because I think you're a fing retard, that cant swallow the simple fact private firms like Mahindra, TATA, etc. are producing DRDO designed things. << This isnt hard, it's simple reality. And the private firms are the last one to want DRDO flushed down, like your dumbass, they're taking several designs from them, currently working with them, or want in on future programs.



> Bridges? You seriously think the bridges deployed by army are DRDO design? WOW!!




Yes, you fing retard. L&T took a modular bridging system designed by DRDO, one of the many things private firms produce from DRDO. 


















> DRDO is yet to come up with their own UAV




That's funny because L&T is producing a DRDO drone.

In a first, DRDO transfers technology to private player | The Indian Express


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## surya kiran

Water Car Engineer said:


> TATA took from Denel, as well as DRDO, idiot. Already showed you several DRDO launchers it produces, and is currently working with DRDO on the Kestral.


Btw, remember our last discussion, where I mistook that DRDO is providing tech for the FRCV? Well, its happening. Anybody building the tank will be using DRDO tech. Maybe not design completely. But tech definitely.



Indian Patriot said:


> It has ZERO export orders in a plane of 190 countries.


DRDO is not a manufacturer, you idiot. How many times does somebody have to tell you this?

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## surya kiran

Indian Patriot said:


> It is a failed organisation that has failed to correctly COPY the AK-47. Somalis are able to cpy ak-47 but not DRDO.


Multiple times you have been shown with images. But then farty is chooo cute 



GTM900 said:


> DRDO has reservation for SC/ST candidates. So that means any average Chamar/SC/ST person can become DRDO "Scientist"?


Finally, someone came up with a 'real' problem in DRDO. Yes. This needs to be addressed quickly. Else, the good chaps will move to the private sector, which by the way is already happening. Merit should be the only criteria in R&D divisions in any company or department across the country.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> TATA took from Denel, as well as DRDO, idiot. Already showed you several DRDO launchers it produces, and is currently working with DRDO on the Kestral.



LOL!! That's a new one, keep making up your own stories. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> And in future wants to produce DRDO's 155mm artillery piece as well.



That's really cute, but DRDO first needs to have a working 155 mm gun you fking retard.



Water Car Engineer said:


> It's not helplessness, it's because I think you're a fing retard



Awww trying to come up with personal insults when exit routes are blocked, you fking retard? I told you, opinion of you losers mean nothing to educated folk.



Water Car Engineer said:


> that cant swallow the simple fact private firms like Mahindra, TATA, etc. are producing DRDO designed things. << This isnt hard, it's simple reality. And the private firms are the last one to want DRDO flushed down, like your dumbass, they're taking several designs from them, currently working with them, or want in on future programs.



Private firms are working with foreign partners. BAE is not a subsidiary of DRDO and neither is Denel. But does a fking retard like you know what a subsidiary is? 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Yes, you fing retard. L&T took a modular bridging system designed by DRDO, one of the many things private firms produce from DRDO.



Tell that to Russia whose bridge designs have been copied. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> That's funny because L&T is producing a DRDO drone.



Indeed funny because DRDO does not have its own drone. How is Rustam by the way, is it finally able to fly?



GTM900 said:


> DRDO has reservation for SC/ST candidates. So that means any average Chamar/SC/ST person can become DRDO "Scientist"?



Yes. Merit is not required to become a "scientist" at DRDO.

What is DRDO?

It is a failed organisation that has failed to correctly COPY the AK-47. Somalis are able to cpy ak-47 but not DRDO.

It is a failure that cannot even make their own engine for tanks and aircraft. 

It has ZERO export orders in a plane of 190 countries.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Private firms are working with foreign partners. BAE is not a subsidiary of DRDO and neither is Denel. But does a fking retard like you know what a subsidiary is?




Damn, you must be one special type of retard.Cant comprehend them taking DRDO designs has nothing to do with BAE, or Denel?



> Awww trying to come up with personal insults when exit routes are blocked, you fking retard? I told you, opinion of you losers mean nothing to educated folk.




You're the last one to talk about personal attacks, you're getting exactly what you put out in the first place.



> That's really cute, but DRDO first needs to have a working 155 mm gun you fking retard.



Even in the prototype stage, TATA, Mahindra, Bharat Forge, etc. are trying to be the lead integrator of the program. Fact, dumbass.



> Indeed funny because DRDO does not have its own drone. How is Rustam by the way, is it finally able to fly?



Of course, totally ignore the source of L&T taking a DRDO drone. Then again, you are PDFs village idiot.



> Tell that to Russia whose bridge designs have been copied.



Here goes the village idiot again.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Damn, you must be one special type of retard.Cant comprehend them taking DRDO designs has nothing to do with BAE, or Denel?



Damn, you must be a special type of dehati to understand hat DRDO is nowhere in the picture. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> You're the last one to talk about personal attacks, you're getting exactly what you put out in the first place.



Show where I insulted you first or just shut the F up you eff retard. LOL!!



Water Car Engineer said:


> Even in the prototype stage, TATA, Mahindra, Bharat Forge, etc. are trying to be the lead integrator of the program. Fact, dumbass.



TATA already has a working gun you dumb moron. LOL!! Just how stupid can you be? Were you born a fool or did your (lack of) education make you one?



Water Car Engineer said:


> Of course, totally ignore the source of L&T taking a DRDO drone. Then again, you are PDFs village idiot.



Of course, pulling stories out of thin air again. But hen again you are a dehati loser.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Here goes the village idiot again.



Of course only a dehati will believe Russia copied the same type of bridge designs from India. But hen bhakts have heir own version of reality.

What is DRDO?

It is a failed organisation that has failed to correctly COPY the AK-47. Somalis are able to cpy ak-47 but not DRDO.

It is a failure that cannot even make their own engine for tanks and aircraft. 

It has ZERO export orders in a plane of 190 countries.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Damn, you must be a special type of dehati to understand hat DRDO is nowhere in the picture.





> LOL!! That's a new one, keep making up your own stories.



Here, have a look again at TATA-DRDO work.
























Then again, you have a memory of a goat. Probably will forget about this in a second.




> TATA already has a working gun you dumb moron. LOL!! Just how stupid can you be? Were you born a fool or did your (lack of) education make you one?



No, they have few imported Denel ones, which they want to eventually produce. First, they have to get the orders period.

They're also in the running for BAE and DRDO 155mm artillery pieces. I've given you a source for this, why are you even asking about this again? Why are you such an idiot?




> Of course only a dehati will believe Russia copied the same type of bridge designs from India. But hen bhakts have heir own version of reality.




You can repeat this all you want, but the fact remains that L&T took the design from DRDO. Fact.




> Of course, pulling stories out of thin air again. But hen again you are a dehati loser.






@surya kiran
@*Argon Prime*

What did DRDO do to this man.

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## surya kiran

Indian Patriot said:


> TATA already has a working gun you dumb moron.


Flash news on Times Now. India wants to know. Which gun? Btw, somebody in Tata Power just denied this. So please enlighten all of us which this is


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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Then again, you have a memory of a goat. Probably will forget about this in a second.



So just that we all know you are a dumb retard, are you trying to say DRDO has the rightful claim over TATA work? Are you trying to say that private sector without DRDO assistance is dead in defence market? Are you really hat retarded?

You are showing clips of private sector and behaving like DRDO is he one who should be congratulated. You buffoon define the word andh bhakt. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> No, they have few imported Denel ones, which they want to eventually produce. First, they have to get the orders period.



Yes, and world works according to your day dreams right? TATA has a working gun but hey sill need DRDO support because a bhakt like you think so. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> They're also in the running for BAE and DRDO 155mm artillery pieces. I've given you a source for this, why are you even asking about this again? Why are you such an idiot?



DRDO DOES NOT HAVE A 155 MM arty gun model or prototype. 

Why are you such a fool and a bad liar? LOL!!



Water Car Engineer said:


> You can repeat this all you want, but the fact remains that L&T took the design from DRDO. Fact.



Yes, typical bhakt mentality. Repeat the lies until bhakts are convinced its the truth. That what happens when a man is too poorly educated. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> What did DRDO do to this man.



DRDO compromised the security of my country. I understand uneducated people like you will get kicked out from army recruitment offices but other people have people in the armed forces whose lives and security are at risk because of DRDO incompetency. 

Question is how much did DRDO pay you to be heir troll bot?

What is DRDO?

It is a failed organisation that has failed to correctly COPY the AK-47. Somalis are able to cpy ak-47 but not DRDO.

It is a failure that cannot even make their own engine for tanks and aircraft. 

It has ZERO export orders in a plane of 190 countries.

Not a single design of DRDO is their own. It is either Russian or TOT. Thats;s why TATA, Mahindra etc. are approacing BAE, Denel and foreign partners for colaboraion. Nobody wants to be associated with DRDO for he simple reason hat DRDO has nothing to offer. 

Can DRDO help TATA with 155 mm gun? No they cannot because DRDO DOES NOT HAVE a 155 mm gun.

Can DRDO help in making engines? No because DRDO does not know how to make engines.

Can DRDO help Mahindra, Ashok Leyland make MRAP? No because DRDO does not even know what MRAP stands for.


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## surya kiran

Water Car Engineer said:


> What did DRDO do to this man.


I don't know man. I tried really hard in the start. He refuses to read! He refuses to learn. I think, he got rejected.

Btw, the Tata gun he is talking about is most probably the ATAG. But guess what, DRDO again  and he does nt know its the DRDO 155mm Dhanush  which the TATA Power SED chaps are in the run for.

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> So just that we all know you are a dumb retard, are you trying to say DRDO has the rightful claim over TATA work?




Right, TATAs work. Which TATA graciously gave it's design to it's competitor L&T to produce too, right? Seriously, why are you such an idiot? 



> Yes, and world works according to your day dreams right? TATA has a working gun but hey sill need DRDO support because a bhakt like you think so.



They have nothing, they have some Denel imports on a truck.

Kalyanis are the only ones to have actual artillery guns.

And yes, they are in the list of private firms trying to be the lead integrator of DRDO arty gun. I know you have a memory of a goat, but I posted a link several posts ago.

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## bloo

Water Car Engineer said:


> What did DRDO do to this man.



He must have failed those DRDO recruitment tests, hence the scorn.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Right, TATAs work. Which TATA graciously gave it's design to it's competitor L&T to produce too, right? Seriously, why are you such an idiot?



Ok, so now you think only one company has the right to make a particular type of weapon? You continue to impress me with your stupidity. 

According to your dehati logic TATA cannot make an SUV because Mahindra is already making one? Kalyani cannot make a 155 mm arty gun because TATA already has one. And since both 155 mm guns look he same, that is both have a long tube which fires a 155 mm shell then it must automatically mean both are the same design. Right?

How old are you son? Your stupidity is too sad to be true. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> They have nothing, they have some Denel imports on a truck.



Unfortunately DRDO cannot even design the said truck. And Denel is a world famous name who is leagues above DRDO. You saying they have nothing means nothing. TATA has a working gun. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Kalyanis are the only ones to have actual artillery guns.



Kalyani is not DRDO either.



Water Car Engineer said:


> And yes, they are in the list of private firms trying to be the lead integrator of DRDO arty gun. I know you have a memory of a goat, but I posted a link several posts ago.



All you have posted is to show how stupid you are. 

Only a fool like you will believe that after having a partner like Denel and a ready made 155 mm gun available ATA will waste time and money teaming up with a nobody like DRDO.

Tell your beloved DRDO to talk once they understand what a 155 mm gun looks and works like.



bloo said:


> He must have failed those DRDO recruitment tests, hence the scorn.



You don't need merit but corruption and political links to get into DRDO.

What is DRDO?

It is a failed organisation that has failed to correctly COPY the AK-47. Somalis are able to cpy ak-47 but not DRDO.

It is a failure that cannot even make their own engine for tanks and aircraft. 

It has ZERO export orders in a plane of 190 countries.


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## surya kiran

For anybody interested in DRDO and Industry you can download and read this. Its a couple of years old. But decent.

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/IITM/Industry_compendium.pdf


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Ok, so now you think only one company has the right to make a particular type of weapon? You continue to impress me with your stupidity.
> .




No you simple rtard. TATA and L&T are making the same *exact* launcher design, like the Akash and Pinaka launchers. You know why, idiot? Because DRDO gave that designs out to two integrators. You're trying to say these are TATAs work, when some of these same exact products are being manufactured by them and their competitor.

Of course you dont know this, because you hardly know what you're even talking about. 



> TATA has a working gun.



No they dont, you saying that doesnt make it true. They have some imports on a truck at the moment.



> Kalyani is not DRDO either.



Did I say they were? They're the only private firm with working guns, manufactured by them. TATA has some imports on a truck.

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## Argon Prime

Water Car Engineer said:


> @surya kiran
> @*Argon Prime*
> 
> What did DRDO do to this man.



Hard to tell,probably did something funny with his,or rather in his butt hole. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Right, TATAs work. Which TATA graciously gave it's design to it's competitor L&T to produce too, right? Seriously, why are you such an idiot?
> 
> 
> 
> They have nothing, they have some Denel imports on a truck.
> 
> Kalyanis are the only ones to have actual artillery guns.
> 
> And yes, they are in the list of private firms trying to be the lead integrator of DRDO arty gun. I know you have a memory of a goat, but I posted a link several posts ago.



Even the Kalyani gun isn't really of their own design,but rather a up-scaled version of GC 45,developed by Gerard Bull's company.But yeah,at least the Kalyanis have got all the blueprints and ISP rights for this thing.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> No you simple rtard. TATA and L&T are making the same *exact* launcher design, like the Akash and Pinaka launchers. You know why, idiot? Because DRDO gave that designs out to two integrators. You're trying to say these are TATAs work, when some of these same exact products are being manufactured by them and their competitor.
> 
> Of course you dont know this, because you hardly know what you're even talking about



This is what happens when people who are uneducated think they know everything. Your supidity was just exposed in my previous post but being a buffoon you could not simply see the truth, can you simple retard?

TATA and L&T are making their own respective stuff without DRDo inputs. Both are private sector companies which have their own R&D support. You will understand these things when you get a meaningful employment.

And yes, no where is it said that only TATA can make guns or only L&T can make vehicles. But then again you are an example of poor education and you will not understand these things.

DRDO did not give out designs you silly fool. LOL!! Every tracked self-propelled 155 mm arty gun "looks" the same from outside - that is like a 155 mm gun turret fitted on a chassis. Braveheart, Paladin, K-9, PzH 2000 ALL of hem look like the "exact" same design as you famously pointed out but they are not.

Tanks also look the "exact" same - a turret housing a gun on a chassis, but tanks are NOT the same.

For uneducated trolls like you things may look "exact" same but they are NOT.

And why would two companies be making the same product? Would not two SEPARATE companies put up a potential problem of difference in quality control? There is a reason why even though both Lockheed Martin and Boeing competed for 5th gen strike aircraft and LM got selected, only LM is producing he said aircraft. Boeing is a world class company but is not given the ask of production because of a simple thing called STANDARDIZATION of equipment.

AK-47 made in Russia and China will have different qualities even though both are the EXACT same thing. But then I am talking to a fool like you.



Water Car Engineer said:


> No they dont, you saying that doesnt make it true. They have some imports on a truck at the moment.



Your opinion counts for nothing, kid. Your comments only show your lack of knowledge.

TATA has a working 155mm gun which they build in partnership with Denel. You coming up with childish temper tantrums won't change facts. TATA has a 155mm gun, DRDO is still trying to figure out how it is possible to make a gun.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Did I say they were? They're the only private firm with working guns, manufactured by them. TATA has some imports on a truck.



Both Kalyani AND TATA have a working 155 mm gun while your beloved DRDO does not even know how to spell the word HOWITZER.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> This is what happens when people who are uneducated think they know everything. Your supidity was just exposed in my previous post but being a buffoon you could not simply see the truth, can you simple retard?
> 
> TATA and L&T are making their own respective stuff without DRDo inputs. Both are private sector companies which have their own R&D support. You will understand these things when you get a meaningful employment.
> 
> And yes, no where is it said that only TATA can make guns or only L&T can make vehicles. But then again you are an example of poor education and you will not understand these things.
> 
> DRDO did not give out designs you silly fool. LOL!! Every tracked self-propelled 155 mm arty gun "looks" the same from outside - that is like a 155 mm gun turret fitted on a chassis. Braveheart, Paladin, K-9, PzH 2000 ALL of hem look like the "exact" same design as you famously pointed out but they are not.
> 
> Tanks also look the "exact" same - a turret housing a gun on a chassis, but tanks are NOT the same.
> 
> For uneducated trolls like you things may look "exact" same but they are NOT.
> 
> And why would two companies be making the same product? Would not two SEPARATE companies put up a potential problem of difference in quality control? There is a reason why even though both Lockheed Martin and Boeing competed for 5th gen strike aircraft and LM got selected, only LM is producing he said aircraft. Boeing is a world class company but is not given the ask of production because of a simple thing called STANDARDIZATION of equipment.




You really are going to earn PDF's brainless twat of year award.

This isnt a hard concept to understand. This isnt Paladin, K-9, or PzH 2000.

This is Samsung giving the same exact K9 design to two different integrators. Does your dumbass understand that analogy?

Tata Power, L&T to supply mobile artillery system to the Army; contract yet to get defence ministry approval - The Economic Times

Six new Akash squadrons to give IAF missile muscle - The Times of India


> while the launchers come from Tata Power/L&T.



The same way DRDO gave TATA power and L&T rights to produce the same exact launchers, which DRDO designed for it's own weapons.

You cant even understand such a simple concept. 



> Both Kalyani AND TATA have a working 155 mm gun while your beloved DRDO does not even know how to spell the word HOWITZER.




TATA has only some imports on a truck. They cant enter any tender around the world with that platform, because they have nothing at hand at the moment. Even if they win the contract, it'll be some time before they manufacture the guns inhouse.

Kalyanis actually bought out the line, and can do what it wants with that design. There's a difference, idiot.

Dont go claiming nonsense because of your lack of knowledge.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> You really are going to earn PDF's brainless twat of year award.



Wow, you are really a brainless twat aren't you, you effing moron? If you want to showcase your deplorable background by typing out bad words hen I suggest you do it in chat where I can teach you some manners, the easy way or the hard way. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> This isnt a hard concept to understand. This isnt Paladin, K-9, or PzH 2000.



Does an uneducated troll like you know the meaning of Paladin, K-9 and PzH 2000?



Water Car Engineer said:


> The same way DRDO gave TATA power and L&T rights to produce the same exact launchers, which DRDO designed for it's own weapons.
> 
> You cant even understand such a simple concept.



For the final time, it is not the same exact launchers. And the truth does not change how many times you repeat a lie. Because two things look same from the outside does not mean it is the same. Get an education before commenting here and making a fool of yourself. 

And nice try at lying. No where is it mentioned that both L&T and TATA are both manufacturing K-9. Two companies WILL NOT manufacture the same exact weapon you block head, else what is the meaning of filing a tender and having a competition if at end both make the same thing? 



Water Car Engineer said:


> TATA has only some imports on a truck. They cant enter any tender around the world with that platform, because they have nothing at hand at the moment. Even if they win the contract, it'll be some time before they manufacture the guns inhouse.
> 
> Kalyanis actually bought out the line, and can do what it wants with that design. There's a difference, idiot.



No you idiot. Your lies hold no meaning. TATA has a working gun, end of story.Dont blabber like an idiot who by miracle managed to have access to he internet.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Does an uneducated troll like you know the meaning of Paladin, K-9 and PzH 2000?



No, only your special kind of dumbass can comprehend those platforms.



> And nice try at lying. No where is it mentioned that both L&T and TATA are both manufacturing K-9.



This guy is really the slowest PDF member, do you understand what an analogy is??



> For the final time, it is not the same exact launchers. And the truth does not change how many times you repeat a lie. Because two things look same from the outside does not mean it is the same. Get an education before commenting here and making a fool of yourself.




Yes it is you idiot. TATA power and L&T produces same Pinaka, Akash launcher, which they got the rights to produce from DRDO.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> No, only your special kind of dumbass can comprehend those platforms.



A person with knowledge of military will understand hem, on the other hand "dumbass" like your kind will not know what they mean. Why are you such dumbass? Don't you feel shame?



Water Car Engineer said:


> This guy is really the slowest PDF member, do you understand what an analogy is??



Yes, when you run out of facts hen start making your own analogy and conspiracy theories because no fact in your world supports your dumb claims. 

Care to explain WHY two separate companies will be allowed to make the exact same weapon system? Is F-16 manufactured by both Boeing and Lockheed Martin?



Water Car Engineer said:


> Yes it is you idiot. TATA power and L&T produces same Pinaka, Akash launcher, which they got the rights to produce from DRDO.



No they don't you brainless idiot. 

Two companies cannot and will not make he exact same weapon system because it will create potential problems in standardization of equipment and quality control. But you are a dumbass idiot with poor education background. 

Show proof that two companies are making the exact same equipment. 

And DRDO gave no design, the design is the right of private companies.

Do you know what a tender is? 

A tender is when two or more companies compete for the same project and only one is awarded the contract. Nowhere in corporate history has two different companies being awarded the contract for the same tender. 

Both EF and Rafale were not selected in MMRCA tender, only Rafale was. 

These are simple things which are taught in schools. I did not know your educational background is so pitiable. I will water down my responses so that even a idiot like you will be able to read and understand. Scout's promise!!


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> A person with knowledge of military will understand hem, on the other hand "dumbass" like your kind will not know what they mean. Why are you such dumbass? Don't you feel shame?



No, I think only your special type of dumbass can only understand them.



> Show proof that two companies are making the exact same equipment.



Why dont you go and look at the Akash launcher and Pinaka launcher supplied by L&T and TATA?



Indian Patriot said:


> Care to explain WHY two separate companies will be allowed to make the exact same weapon system? Is F-16 manufactured by both Boeing and Lockheed Martin?



No, idiot. Boeing and LM doesnt manufacture the same F16, but LM did give the rights to Korean Aerospace Industries, Turkish Aerospace Industries, etc. to produce their design.

Just like DRDO gave the rights to produce it's designed launchers to two different suppliers, dual source suppliers. Why is this such a hard concept to digest, why are you so slow?



> I will water down my responses so that even a idiot like you will be able to read and understand. Scout's promise!!




You're too stupid enough, please dont.

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## surya kiran

Indian Patriot said:


> TATA has a working gun, end of story.


Nope they do not. Confirmed by chap form TATA Power SED. Do you have a better source? The only one is the Dhanush, which by the way is the DRDO 155 mm 



Indian Patriot said:


> Two companies cannot and will not make he exact same weapon system because it will create potential problems in standardization of equipment and quality control.


Wah wah....shows you are a noob in defence production 



Indian Patriot said:


> A tender is when two or more companies compete for the same project and only one is awarded the contract.


Are you aware there is a difference between a production tender and a design tender. Oh FYI, there is also a development tender. But, you knew all this right? Are you also aware that a consortium may bid for tender. One design is selected and production can be split between competing players with the design winner getting major chunk?

I am pretty sure you already knew all this? FARTY, btw, where is the 4th generation NAG you said was claimed by DRDO ?

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> No, I think only your special type of dumbass can only understand them.



So we are both in agreement that you are a dumbass you little to no knowledge on military maters. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Why dont you go and look at the Akash launcher and Pinaka launcher supplied by L&T and TATA?



Once again, two companies WILL NOT make the same equipment for obvious reasons. It defeats the very purpose of having a tender and also compromises on product quality. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> No, idiot. Boeing and LM doesnt manufacture the same F16, but LM did give the rights to Korean Aerospace Industries, Turkish Aerospace Industries, etc. to produce their design.



Once again you have spoken like a moron who has no idea on defence maters.

F-16 is produced by Lockheed Martin. If F-16 is sold to say Turkey than Turkey MAY produce F-16 locally through heir own domestic supplier through TOT. That HOWEVER does not mean USAF will induct F-16s manufactured by Lockheed Martin and Turkey, ROFLOL!!! Why are you so stupid?

If IAF had purchased F-16 hen it is possible then HAL - through TOT - may build F-16s domestically. You are a retard who cannot understand these simple things. As I said, you are simply to dumb. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Just like DRDO gave the rights to produce it's designed launchers to two different suppliers, dual source suppliers. Why is this such a hard concept to digest, why are you so slow?



You fool, two different companies WILL NEVER make the same weapon for a single consumer. Apple Iphone is not made by both Apple and Samsung. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> You're too stupid enough, please dont.



This coming from a retard like you who has no clue what he is talking about.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Apple Iphone is not made by both Apple and Samsung.




No, but Apple does have several outsourced suppliers making components originally designed by them, which is used for domestic and export markets. This is no different from DRDO's Akash launcher, which is designed by them, manufactured by TATA & L and T, and integrated together by BEL and given to the Indian supplier.

Pinaka and Akash was never TATAs or L&Ts product or development idiot. They were NEVER in the initial design stages. They're dual suppliers of the same exact launcher. They only form a part of the supply chain, rights given by DRDO to produce, of it's own system.

And why dont you go and compare L&T and TATA launchers, can you tell the difference dumbass? No, because it's the same exact thing designed by DRDO, for it's own missiles/rockets.

Please tell me, why would you have two different suppliers, supplying two different launcher designs for the same exact missile/rockets? This would only make sense to a dumbass like you.

I want you to go and find both L&T and TATA supplied launchers, and see if it's not the same exact thing.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> No, but Apple does have several outsourced suppliers making components originally designed by them,






Are you confusing outsourcing with transfer of technology? ROFLOL!!! You are more stupid than I imagined. Seriously, what is your academic qualification?

Outsourcing is done by companies o cut down on production cost. If an Apple phone costs say 10 dollars to manufacture in US it will cost 2 dollars to build in India. Hence Apple may set up a production unit in India to make Apple phones and cut down costs. This is NOT called Transfer of Technology. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Pinaka and Akash was never TATAs or L&Ts product or development idiot.



Nobody other than an idiot like you is calling Pinaka and Akash as TATA and Larsen's development. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> They're dual suppliers of the same exact launcher. They only form a part of the supply chain, rights given by DRDO to produce, of it's own system.



You fool, two separate suppliers will not produce the launchers for the exact same design. How stupid do you have to be to fail to understand this simple point?

Different companies have different production parameters and quality standards. Ever heard of The term called GUARANTEE? Guarantees are delivered by the company on the confidence of their product. Now if TATA gives a Guarantee of 1 year and Larsen gives a guaranee of 6 months it WILL CREATE PROBLEMS you fol.

Then here is something called after-sales support. Sending half he launchers for possible repair and maintenance to TATA and other half to Larsen will AGAIN CREATE LOGISTICAL PROBLEMS not to mention all other sorts of roadblocks. 

Lastly the thing called PRODUCTION LINES. these are not lines drawn on a chart paper by skecth pens but define the production and manufacturing capability of a unit. L&T may have a production line capable of delivering 100 launchers per year whereas TATA may be able to produce only 60 per year. Can a duffer like you imagine the problems it will create?

So why don't you stop lying and admit you are an uneducated fool who knows nothing. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> And why dont you go and compare L&T and TATA launchers, can you tell the difference dumbass? No, because it's the same exact thing designed by DRDO, for it's own missiles/rockets.





Because they look the same to you does not mean they are the same. Why don't you come up with proof that the launcher for ONE weapon system is made by two different companies?

Mind you we are only discussing he stupidity of your claims. *Launchers are the designs of private companies and not transferred by DRDO. *


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## Water Car Engineer

> Why don't you come up with proof that the launcher for ONE weapon system is made by two different companies?



I already gave you links before, they give the same exact launchers for the pinaka and akash system.

Tata, L&T bag orders for Pinaka rocket launcher - Indian Express
Six new Akash squadrons to give IAF missile muscle - The Times of India


> while the launchers come from Tata Power/L&T.





Indian Patriot said:


> Nobody other than an idiot like you is calling Pinaka and Akash as TATA and Larsen's development.





Indian Patriot said:


> Mind you we are only discussing he stupidity of your claims. *Launchers are the designs of private companies and not transferred by DRDO.*



Since they designed these launchers themselves separately, like your dumbass says, which is TATA launcher and which is the L&T launcher?




















They're the same exact design given to BEL for integration. This isnt Paladin and K9, but K9 and K9. It's two suppliers, supplying two carbon copy launchers to the integrator. Please, tell me which is TATA and which is L&T. Anyone can tell the difference between Paladin, K-9, or PzH 2000.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> I already gave you links before, they give the same exact launchers for the pinaka and akash system.



Yes a 2006 link, almost a decade old. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Since they designed these launchers themselves separately, like your dumbass says, which is TATA launcher and which is the L&T launcher?



You are seriously fcuked up in your head aren't you? LOL!!! You moron dumbass are you blind not to spot the TATA logo? 



Water Car Engineer said:


> They're the same exact design given to BEL for integration. This isnt Paladin and K9, but K9 and K9. It's two suppliers, supplying two carbon copy launchers to the integrator. Please, tell me which is TATA and which is L&T. Anyone can tell the difference between Paladin, K-9, or PzH 2000.



Why would anybody give the exact same design to two different companies you retard?

Is either TATA or L&T short on funds or employees that one company cannot fulfill the order? Is the quality standard of both the companies product will be the same? Explain the logic here you fool.

But then I am asking logic from a retard who thinks TOT and outsourcing are the same thing.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> You are seriously fcuked up in your head aren't you? LOL!!! You moron dumbass are you blind not to spot the TATA logo?
> .



Is it the TATA logo? Is it a tata? Because L&T makes the exact same grey air force akash launcher which is given to BEL.

Tell which of the other is TATA and LT.

You can't even tell which is which, your dumbass needed a faded blue logo to tell, not the design itself.


They both make the same carbon copy design, and both wouldn't give which other its own design. So who is giving the design to them? I don't know, maybe the R&D agency that made the system itself, which doesn't manufacture, but gives out its designs to other integrators and manufacturers?



Indian Patriot said:


> Yes a 2006 link, almost a decade old..



Doesn't matter, second source is 2015 too.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Is it the TATA logo? Is it a tata? Because L&T makes the exact same grey air force akash launcher which is given to BEL.



You blind fool, look at the pictures carefully. The TATA logo is clearly marked. Wait a minute, do you recognise the TATA logo?



Water Car Engineer said:


> You can't even tell which is which, your dumbass needed a faded blue logo to tell, not the design itself.



Whoa dumbass, where is he L&T logo? TATA has a logo but where the eff is L&T?



Water Car Engineer said:


> They both make the same carbon copy design, and both wouldn't give which other its own design. So who is giving the design to them? I don't know, maybe the R&D agency that made the system itself, which doesn't manufacture, but gives out its designs to other integrators and manufacturers?



The pics show logo of TATA. 

Yes both would not give each other their design and for the same effing reason both of them will not be manufacturing the exact same product you dumb retard. Why don't you explain the logic behind giving two different companies the same contract? 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Doesn't matter, second source is 2015 too.



Again white lies from a desperate loser like you. The TOI link does not mention any of your stupid claims.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> You blind fool, look at the pictures carefully. The TATA logo is clearly marked. Wait a minute, do you recognise the TATA logo?
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa dumbass, where is he L&T logo? TATA has a logo but where the eff is L&Ts.




I don't need an L&T logo, I know which is TATA and L&T from the source I got it from. Not from the design itself, which is a carbon copy designed from DRDO.

You choosing the grey one as TATA is hilarious, because LT makes the same grey launchers.

Tell, since your genius self can tell the design difference, like with Paladin, K9, which of the others is TATA and which is L&T? Sense they designed it separately.

You have several to title.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> I don't need an L&T logo, I know which is TATA and L&T from the source I got it from.



Now why don't you share your source so that we can all learn from it? Just post the link you noob head.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Not from the design itself, which is a carbon copy designed from DRDO.



There is no such thing called carbon copy design. It is called Transfer of Technology and you buffoon, if TATA needs TOT to manufacture launchers then God pity the engineers in India. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Tell, since youR genius self can tell the design difference, like with Paladin, K9, which is TATA and which is L&T?



Yes, both Paladin and K-9 are the same design made by different companies. 

Why don't you post a pic of Akash launcher with L&T logo?


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Yes, both Paladin and K-9 are the same design made by different companies.
> 
> Why don't you post a pic of Akash launcher with L&T logo?




You have comprehension problems. I said, sense you can tell the designs differences between two different designed Paladin and K9, which anyone can tell.

Tell me which is the TATA and L&T launchers..

Im not going to give you anything, till you tell me which is manufactured in L&T and TATA.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Tell me which is the TATA and L&T launchers..



L&T *DOES NOT* make Akash launchers you buffooon, else a troll like you would have been running up and down the thread posting pics of Akash launchers sporting L&T logo. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> *Im not going to give you anything*, till you tell me which is manufactured in L&T and TATA.



In simple words you have no links to support your lies and all this is just a hogwash.

Stupid troll, now run off.



Water Car Engineer said:


> You have comprehension problems. I said,_* sense*_ you can tell the designs



LOL!! at your English.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> L&T *DOES NOT* make Akash launchers you buffooon, else a troll like you would have been running up and down the thread posting pics of Akash launchers sporting L&T logo.
> .




Really? You idiot? You really have no clue do you? This is well known, not to your dumbass, obviously.

Missile Launchers | Heavy Engineering | L&T India



> Akash Air Force Launcher (AAFL) is an Air Defence System, *designed and developed by L&T jointly with DRDO/ R&DE (E).*



And that same grey Akash which has the TATA label on it, is made by L&T too. 

Go back and label which is TATA and which L&T.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> And that same grey Akash which has the TATA label on it, is made by L&T too.



Yes, because it is very natural for L&T to put a TATA label on the product they manufactured. Because that makes a lot of sense.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Yes, because it is very natural for L&T to put a TATA label on the product they manufactured. Because that makes a lot of sense.




No, idiot.They both make it. You're the idiot that said L&T doesnt even make the launcher to begin with. It says so in literally every Akash report that TATA and L&T makes these launchers, with DRDO help initially, and gives it to BEL.




Indian Patriot said:


> L&T *DOES NOT* make Akash launchers you buffooon, else a troll like you would have been running up and down the thread posting pics of Akash launchers sporting L&T logo.







Now, tell me which is TATA and L&T launchers from the other thread, dumbass.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> No, idiot.They both make it.



No they don't you moron else there would have been a L&T logo on the launcher. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Now, tell me which is TATA and L&T launchers from the other thread, dumbass.



L&T launchers don't exist, provide a pic with L&T logo if they do make any.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> No they don't you moron else there would have been a L&T logo on the launcher.
> 
> 
> 
> L&T launchers don't exist, provide a pic with L&T logo if they do make any.





You're an idiot, you always make up bullshit to suit your own agenda. This is well known fact, and I gave their own website.


Missile Launchers | Heavy Engineering | L&T India



> Akash Air Force Launcher (AAFL) is an Air Defence System, *designed and developed by L&T jointly with DRDO/ R&DE (E).*

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> You're an idiot, you always make up bullshit to suit your own agenda. This is well known fact, and I gave their own website.



If you can quote from the website why don't you put up a pic of an Akash launcher sporting L&T logo? 

Why would L&T put the logo of TATA on a launcher which they made? Explain this fallacy you fumbling idiot.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> If you can quote from the website why don't you put up a pic of an Akash launcher sporting L&T logo?
> 
> Why would L&T put the logo of TATA on a launcher which they made? Explain this fallacy you fumbling idiot.




L&T didnt put TATA logo on it's own manufactued launcher you idiot. That one with a TATA logo on it is manufactured by TATA, but L&T also makes grey launchers as well.

I quote from their website, because it's first hand source from the company itself. Not a dumbass source like you.

I shouldn't need to even quote from their website, because this is a well know fact. Literally mentioned in every other Akash report.



> Akash missiles are supplied by BDL, while the launchers for missiles are being supplied by Tata Power / L&T



MI2Watch: Akash to be BEL’s star at show; more IAF orders likely - Oneindia



> while the launchers come from Tata Power/L&T.



Six new Akash squadrons to give IAF missile muscle - The Times of India




Indian Patriot said:


> Explain this fallacy you fumbling idiot.



First explain why you didnt know L&T manufactures Akash launchers?

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> but L&T also makes grey launchers as well.



Then put up a pic with L&T logo on it you dumbass idiot.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Then put up a pic with L&T logo on it you idiot.




I dont need to, I want you to first tell me which from the other thread is TATA and which is L&T.

You didnt even know L&T makes them.

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## Yazp

Water Car Engineer said:


> I know. Take a look at this from them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A product of absolute monopoly.
> 
> However, certain DRDO labs arent doing bad. In terms of small arms, this MCIWS and the up coming LMG could prove that.


Holy shit, what kind of abomination is that.


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## Water Car Engineer

Yazp said:


> Holy shit, what the hell is that thing




Result of absolute monopoly in defence production.

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## Indian Patriot

Yazp said:


> Holy shit, what the hell is that thing



That is DRDO engineering a its finest moments.



Water Car Engineer said:


> I dont need to, I want you to first tell me which from the other thread is TATA and which is L&T.



L&T does not make launchers. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> You didnt even know L&T makes them.



L&T does not make them or there would have been pictures of akash launchers with L&T logo on them.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> That is DRDO engineering a its finest moments.




No, that's OFB, nothing to do with DRDO.



Indian Patriot said:


> L&T does not make launchers.



Yes it does you idiot. This is well known fact, mentioned in literally every Akash report. Even in it's website.

Missile Launchers | Heavy Engineering | L&T India

Akash Air Force Launcher (AAFL) is an Air Defence System, *designed and developed by L&T jointly with DRDO/ R&DE (E).
*
First tell me which is TATA and which is L&T.

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## Yazp

they took a BMP2, removed the frontal armor and replaced it with seems to be a 30 minute weld on steel box with windows on it, and removed the tracks and put on wheels.
are you guys sure it isn't made for some bollywood film? Maybe it was just a prank? They can't really be serious...


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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> No, that's OFB, nothing to do with DRDO.



Do you understand the difference between design and production?



Water Car Engineer said:


> Yes it does you idiot. This is well known fact, mentioned in literally every Akash report. Even in it's website.



No it does not. Websites are not gospels of truth and nor are they updated on a daily basis. 

If L&T makes akash launchers then upload a pic, you cannot upload any pic because no such pics exist. And no such pics exist because L&T does not make launchers. Open and shut case.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Do you understand the difference between design and production?




Yes, dumbass, OFB designed that themselves.



Indian Patriot said:


> No it does not. Websites are not gospels of truth and nor are they updated on a daily basis.
> 
> If L&T makes akash launchers then upload a pic, you cannot upload any pic because no such pics exist. And no such pics exist because L&T does not make launchers. Open and shut case.



And your dumbass is the gospel of the truth?  Who are you? No, L&T does make Akash launchers. Like I said, this is a well known fact that TATA and L&T makes the launchers and gives it to BEL.

And I will keep posting this first hand source. What's your source?

Missile Launchers | Heavy Engineering | L&T India

Akash Air Force Launcher (AAFL) is an Air Defence System, *designed and developed by L&T jointly with DRDO/ R&DE (E).*

Go and tell me which is the TATA and L&T launchers in the previous post.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Yes, dumbass, OFB designed that themselves.



No dumbass, the responsibility of the design rests with DRDO. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> And your dumbass is the gospel of the truth?  Who are you? No, L&T does make Akash launchers. Like I said, this is a well known fact that TATA and L&T makes the launchers and gives it to BEL.



No dumbass, you don't have any photograhic evidence that's why you are throwing tantrums here. I am the superor of you in intellect. 

TATA website also claims hey have a working 155 mm gun, but dumbasses like you don't believe them. I can show pics of TATA 155 mm gun, where is pic of your L&T made launcher?


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> No dumbass, the responsibility of the design rests with DRDO.




No it doesnt. Only IFV it has made is Abhay IFV, and Kestrel with TATA.

OFB have made several modifications on their locally produce BMP, and 105mm artilley pieces, by themselves.



Indian Patriot said:


> TATA website also claims hey have a working 155 mm gun, but dumbasses like you don't believe them. I can show pics of TATA 155 mm gun, where is pic of your L&T made launcher?




TATA has claimed they will produce the guns inhouse some time after the contract is given. This was in a display in Def Expo itself. Right now it's only imports. Kalyanis are the only private firm with artillery piece, they can try to gain contracts, etc. with if they like. Can TATA? No.




Indian Patriot said:


> No dumbass, you don't have any photograhic evidence that's why you are throwing tantrums here. I am the superor of you in intellect.



First, tell me which is TATA and which is L&T launcher from the pervious post. Because both make them, this is fact. Mentioned in their website, and several second hand sources. What's your source? Other than your usual made up mouth?

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> No it doesnt. Only IFV it has made is Abhay IFV, and Kestrel with TATA.



The responsibility of RESEARCH and Development rests with DRDO and it includes DESIGN. OFB and others can make reverse-engineered or TOT weapons, systems. The mandate of DRDO is design.



Water Car Engineer said:


> OFB have made several modifications on their locally produce BMP, and 105mm artilley pieces, by themselves.



Yes, the BMP chakra modification was very obvious. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> TATA has claimed they will produce the guns inhouse some time after the contract is given.



TATA has a working gun you moron. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> This was in a display in Def Expo itself. Right now it's only imports. Kalyanis are the only private firm with artillery piece, they can try to gain contracts, etc. with if they like. Can TATA? No.



 TATA has a working gun and they don't boher about what losers like you think. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> First, tell me which is TATA and which is L&T launcher from the pervious post



There is NO L&T launcher, plain and simple. So all the pics you posted were of TATA.

If there are so many sources hen instead of running your mouth put up a pic.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> The responsibility of RESEARCH and Development rests with DRDO and it includes DESIGN. OFB and others can make reverse-engineered or TOT weapons, systems. The mandate of DRDO is design.




OFB can design as well. They've done it with their BMP modifications, several times.




Indian Patriot said:


> There is NO L&T launcher, plain and simple. So all the pics you posted were of TATA.
> 
> If there are so many sources hen instead of running your mouth put up a pic.



What is your source? My source is straight from the company itself. First, tell me the source where you got it doesnt. Second, tell me which is the TATA, L&T launcher or say all of them are TATAs.



Indian Patriot said:


> TATA has a working gun you moron.
> 
> 
> 
> TATA has a working gun and they don't boher about what losers like you think.
> 
> c.



It has imports of the truck at the moment. It works, just not made by them.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> OFB can design as well. They've done it with their BMP modifications, several times.



There is a difference between designing their own and reverse-engineering or making from TOT.



Water Car Engineer said:


> What is your source? My source is straight from the company itself. First, tell me the source where you got it doesnt. Second, tell me which is the TATA, L&T launcher or say all of them are TATAs.



Source? LOL!!! I am not claiming, I am denying.

TATA company also states that they have a working gun but a "genius" like you denies that.

If L&T has made a launcher then put up a pic with the logo on it. As simple as that.



Water Car Engineer said:


> It has imports of the truck at the moment. It works, just not made by them.



TATA now imports trucks?


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Source? LOL!!! I am not claiming, I am denying.
> 
> TATA company also states that they have a working gun but a "genius" like you denies that.
> 
> If L&T has made a launcher then put up a pic with the logo on it. As simple as that.



I have a source straight from the company, you cant deny primary source straight form the company itself, dumbass. Now tell me which is TATA an which is L&T.



Indian Patriot said:


> TATA now imports trucks?




Imports on a truck. Which is what it is. Imports.

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## Indian Patriot

Yazp said:


> They can't really be serious...



They are very serious. And you will have some Indian members here who would kill you for daring to say the design sucks.



Water Car Engineer said:


> I have a source straight from the company, you cant deny primary source straight form the company itself, dumbass. Now tell me which is TATA an which is L&T.



You effing dumbass both are TATA in case you did not notice the logo. And source from company also claims TATA has a gun so shut up.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Imports on a truck. Which is what it is. Imports.



You wish, LOL!! They have a working gun.


----------



## Yazp

Indian Patriot said:


> They are very serious. And you will have some Indian members here who would kill you for daring to say the design sucks.


That thing is slightly ahead of this Iranian "experiment"





I'm being completely unbiased, even if Russia itself made something like that Indian BMP, I'd be saying the same.
But hey, everyone comes with silly ideas every once in a while.








and yes, that plane did fly.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> You wish, LOL!! They have a working gun.




They have a working imported gun.



Indian Patriot said:


> You effing dumbass both are TATA in case you did not notice the logo.




So, every single launcher below is TATA manufactured, right?




Water Car Engineer said:


>

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## Indian Patriot

Yazp said:


> That thing is slightly ahead of this Iranian "experiment"



The Iranian model has better firepower.



Water Car Engineer said:


> They have a working imported gun.



Yes, your opinion means a lot to TATA.



Water Car Engineer said:


> So, every single on is TATA manufactured here, right?



If you did not notice the TATA logo on the bottom left hand corner of the pic hen you deserve to get slapped.

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> -
> 
> If you did not notice the TATA logo on the bottom left hand corner of the pic hen you deserve to get slapped.




Tell, me is every single launcher there is manufactured by TATA. Yes, or no.




Indian Patriot said:


> Yes, your opinion means a lot to TATA.



Just facts.


----------



## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Tell, me is every single launcher there is manufactured by TATA. Yes, or no.



Yes it is. Unless you show a pic of L&T logo sporting launcher. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Just facts.



TATA has a 155 mm gun = FACT


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Yes it is. Unless you show a pic of L&T logo sporting launcher.



Forget a logo, I'll show you their plant.






I want you to watch this, and never ignore a source that's straight from the company itself, dumbass.





Indian Patriot said:


> TATA has a 155 mm gun = FACT



Only fact is this, Denel supplies the guns. For now. TATA motors the truck, TATA sed much of the electronics and integration work.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> I want you to watch this, and never ignore a source that's straight form the company itself, dumbass.



Not impressed.

Old video and the deal must have gone cancelled because no modern Akash launcher has L&T logo on it. Bofors was a Swedish owned gun before BAE took over. Obviously L&T did not bag the contract. Show a pic with L&T logo on it.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Only fact is this, Denel supplies the guns. For now. TATA motors the truck, TATA sed much of the electronics and integration work.



TATA has a gun, what an anonymous dumbass like you thinks is not the concern.


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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> Not impressed.
> 
> Old video and the deal must have gone cancelled because no modern Akash launcher has L&T logo on it. Bofors was a Swedish owned gun before BAE took over. Obviously L&T did not bag the contract. Show a pic with L&T logo on it.




Shut the **** up you idiot. 

It was upload in 2015, right in the make in India initiative hype . 

India aims to build up its domestic defence sector - BBC News

You really are a shameless idiot.



Indian Patriot said:


> TATA has a gun, what an anonymous dumbass like you thinks is not the concern.



Imported ones, yes.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> Shut the **** up you idiot



Mind your language, this is a public forum not your home.



Water Car Engineer said:


> You really are a shameless idiot.



You are a manner-less punk. You did not answer why L&T is okay with TATA logo on Akash launchers IF L&T is indeed making hem. Why?



Water Car Engineer said:


> Imported ones, yes.



TATA Guns. And I can likewise post pics and videos.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> You are a manner-less punk. You did not answer why L&T is okay with TATA logo on Akash launchers IF L&T is indeed making hem. Why?



It's not IF, they are making them. 

There is no TATA logo on a L&T made one. They both make the same launchers, I've been saying this the whole time, with several sources saying the same, but you're too goddamn stupid.

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## Indian Patriot

Water Car Engineer said:


> It's not IF, they are making them



So you are saying L&T is making the launchers but hey are so daan veer they let their competition TATA put on TATA logos? 



Water Car Engineer said:


> There is no TATA logo on a L&T made one. They both make the same launchers, I've been saying this the whole time, with several sources saying the same, but you're too goddamn stupid.



Then show a launcher with an L&T logo. L&T flopped out and now TATA makes the launchers. As simple as that. You are just too goddam stupid.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Indian Patriot said:


> So you are saying L&T is making the launchers but hey are so daan veer they let their competition TATA put on TATA logos?




No retard, they both make the same launchers. Why is this so hard to understand?



Indian Patriot said:


> Then show a launcher with an L&T logo. L&T flopped out and now TATA makes the launchers. As simple as that. You are just too goddam stupid.



Nah, you can just watch their Akash launcher assemble line. 

India aims to build up its domestic defence sector - BBC News

Anyway, I have to go, retard.

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## kurup

Water Car Engineer said:


> No retard, they both make the same launchers. Why is this so hard to understand?
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, you can just watch their Akash launcher assemble line.
> 
> India aims to build up its domestic defence sector - BBC News
> 
> Anyway, I have to go, retard.



Brother , why are you wasting your time ? ...... You wasted time for 13 pages .

He is not here to learn or share the knowledge ..... he is just here to force his thoughts on others .

They will just keep on posting cr@p and live in denial ..... such people never have the audacity to accept if they have been proven wrong .

Debating with such guys is not worth the time .


PS : You a mallu ??

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## Water Car Engineer

kurup said:


> Brother , why are you wasting your time ? ...... You wasted time for 13 pages .
> 
> He is not here to learn or share the knowledge ..... he is just here to force his thoughts on others .
> 
> They will just keep on posting cr@p and live in denial ..... such people never have the audacity to accept if they have been proven wrong .
> 
> Debating with such guys is not worth the time .
> 
> 
> PS : You a mallu ??




Yes, you're right. I won't waste time on that guy anymore. Yes, origins to Kerala.

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## Nilgiri

nice ownage @Water Car Engineer

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## Water Car Engineer

Water Car Engineer said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two different MCIWS prototypes
> *





The MCIWS prototypes we've seen so far didnt have a foldable stock.

This one does -






This model has a new foldable stock.

It also looks like they're not using the foldable iron sights, as in the older prototypes.














OFB recenty made a MP5 clone, Anamika 9mm

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## Skull and Bones

Water Car Engineer said:


> OFB recenty made a MP5 clone, Anamika 9mm



Such a lame *** name.

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## ni8mare

Water Car Engineer said:


>


when did these happened ??


----------



## Water Car Engineer

ni8mare said:


> when did these happened ??




What do you mean?


----------



## ni8mare

Water Car Engineer said:


> What do you mean?


folding stock


----------



## Water Car Engineer

ni8mare said:


> folding stock



Probably for some time, just the first time seeing it with it. There are several prototypes out there.

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## Tshering22

Echo_419 said:


> MOD is moving slowly & carefully if they move to fast unions will create a lot of trouble



I wish we had a way to finish this union culture. Seriously, what do these people do? They have only become a hurdle for progress even within defence establishment.

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## Echo_419

Tshering22 said:


> I wish we had a way to finish this union culture. Seriously, what do these people do? They have only become a hurdle for progress even within defence establishment.



Ironic, Unions were formed to protect the interest of the workers & now all these unions are just damaging the interest of the workers


----------



## Tshering22

Echo_419 said:


> Ironic, Unions were formed to protect the interest of the workers & now all these unions are just damaging the interest of the workers



Workers don't care about work, especially in majority of the government units. 

They strike for privatization of airports, they strike for corporatization of national maha-ratna companies, they protest for every single nonsense. 

All they want is guaranteed salary and job with infinite holidays.

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## Echo_419

Tshering22 said:


> Workers don't care about work, especially in majority of the government units.
> 
> They strike for privatization of airports, they strike for corporatization of national maha-ratna companies, they protest for every single nonsense.
> 
> All they want is guaranteed salary and job with infinite holidays.



Have you seen people is the FCI 

Come up with ways to cut FCI loss: SC to govt | The Indian Express


“The report shows that in August 2014, 370 labourers received more than Rs 4 lakh in salary. Around 400 others got between Rs 2 lakh and 2.5 lakh in the same month. Can a labourer earn Rs 4.5 lakh? How is that possible? This is resulting into a loss of Rs 18,000 crore to the public exchequer,” said the bench

Sourcing more weapons from Pvt sector will fix these idiots up

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## Water Car Engineer

Early design of MCIWS














Current models














Indian Coast Guard armed with Amogh Carbine


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## MilSpec

Doesn't it feel sad to see these designs without a shred of ingenuity.Being an firearms enthusiast, just flat out saddens the copies of Ak's and AR's and now even the MP. Hopefully this will improve in the future. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Early design of MCIWS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Current models
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Coast Guard armed with Amogh Carbine


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## Water Car Engineer

MilSpec said:


> Doesn't it feel sad to see these designs without a shred of ingenuity.Being an firearms enthusiast, just flat out saddens the copies of *Ak's and AR's and now even the MP*. Hopefully this will improve in the future.



OFB is actually known to do that. Did that with the FAL way back. Personally dont care, it's their way of cutting into some of the police, etc forces that use MP5s and AKs.

The bad part is that OFB is using same material with in it's older 9mm. No other light materials to reduce it's weight in that MP5 copy. So it ends up weight the same as the MCIWS.


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## mkb95

Water Car Engineer said:


>


remember few years ago our sfs were equipped like this.




i think length of mciws too long to put any use in cqb.


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## Water Car Engineer

MCIWS might be renamed, "Advanced Assault Rifle". You partially see two different stock designs of it behind the man.

Bottom right board partially shows a new grenade launcher for assault rifles, looks like it has a pistol grip.

The bottom left shows the cornershot equivalent.






You can see parts of the MCIWS on the table.


All the new models seem to not have foldable iron sights.

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## Water Car Engineer

Water Car Engineer said:


> MCIWS might be renamed, "Advanced Assault Rifle". You partially see two different stock designs of it behind the man.








It seems it has a new designate - "Advanced Assault Rifle".


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## Armani

I'm getting the feeling that the upcoming Mountain Strike Corps will be the first to implement F-INSAS in a big way. The AAR, new camouflage, BPJs, helmets etc. Also could be the first to induct the M777 howitzers, and the Army LCH variant.

2020, here we come!


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## Water Car Engineer

Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) in association with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), User & Directorate General Quality Assurance (DGQA) has undertaken development of a single barrel Rifle of 5.56 x 45 Calibre. 

The salient features of Rifle are: 

Mass : <4 Kg

Firing Mode : Single shot & Automatic

Magazine Capacity : 20 rounds

Range : 450m max. 

Butt : Foldable. 

*Provision to mount international optical sights, Under Barrel Grenade Launcher (UBGL), Fore Grip etc. Following are the list of trials conducted on 5.56 mm Assault: 

• Night firing carried out; 

• Reliability Test, Dispersion Test & Accuracy Test have been carried out; 

• User Assisted evaluation of 5.56mm Assault rifle 5.56mm Mk 1C for zeroing, accuracy & reliability. *

*The Rifle 5.56mm Mk 1C is superior to INSAS in terms of weight, reliability, compactness, and aesthetics and has a provision for mounting of accessories like Reflex sights / optical sights, etc. OFB can manufacture such rifles at the rate of 1,00,000 nos. per annum. *

This information was given by Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh in a written reply to Shri Rahul Shewale and others in Lok Sabha today. 

DM/NAMPI/RAJ

Insas Rifle

EXCALIBUR = INSAS MK1C


----------



## Water Car Engineer

*7.62mm Sniper*






*MK1C*






*Amogh, Ex, MK1C






AAR*

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## Water Car Engineer

A new LMG will be unveiled soon.

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## Water Car Engineer

*MSMC/JVPC, INSAS w/ UGBL, MCIWS/AAR w/ foldable stock*

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## Water Car Engineer

Another cornershot equivalent. From Zen Tech, ShootEdge.

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## Water Car Engineer

Developmental trials in LEH, Jungle, Desert, etc.

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## bloo

Are there any Indian private companies making small arms?


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## Water Car Engineer

bloo said:


> Are there any Indian private companies making small arms?




Some are trying to get into the game. Mahindra tried way back in 03, but they ran into stupid bureaucracy, the mind set of not letting these firms deal with such things.

Things are changing.

Punj Lloyd will be producing Tavors for Israeli, domestic, and outside markets.



> The JV will manufacture components in the first phase for export to Israel, in which nearly 80 per cent of the components of the guns will be made in India. In the second phase, full guns will be made here for supplying to the security forces.
> 
> “This JV will be key in enabling India to leapfrog to a higher technological threshold through the adoption of advanced defence technologies. We are confident that with technology transfer from IWI, Punj Lloyd is positioned to manufacture the complete range of IWI products from pistols to light machine guns and specialist weapons like sniper rifles, in addition to providing service to the existing IWI products and support for new orders,” said Atul Punj, chairman, Punj Lloyd.




http://indianexpress.com/article/bu...dian-jv-to-make-small-arms-in-private-sector/


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## Water Car Engineer

Excalibur INSAS

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## Water Car Engineer

Indian Coast Guards with INSAS Amogh Carbine, 'micro-INSAS'.










INSAS MK1C

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> Indian Coast Guards with INSAS Amogh Carbine, 'micro-INSAS'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> INSAS MK1C


Link to the video bro?


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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Link to the video bro?




Dont have the video, either. I dont know where the person got the screen shots.

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## dani958

Water Car Engineer said:


> Another cornershot equivalent. From Zen Tech, ShootEdge.


thats isreal invation corner shot its cold


----------



## Water Car Engineer

*ARDE's cornershot, comes in UBGL configuration 






AAR*

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## Sensei

*Need for new Rifle for Army *

*INSAS Rifles*

1.41 The media has reported that the services are not happy with this weapon and want a better-one to counter threats, therefore, the Committee was desirous to know the problems being faced by the forces in using the INSAS Rifle, what DRDO has done for its improvement as well as they want to know reason of failure of DRDO in coming upto the expectations of the forces in developing any good Rifle. The Ministry in a written reply supplied the following information:

‘(i) INSAS Rifle was designed and developed by DRDO based on Qualitative Requirements (QRs) set in 1982 and met all QR parameters and inducted into Service in 1996. The Rifle has been fully exploited since then including OP Vijay in 1999. Subsequent to OP Vijay, the following problems were observed:

(a) Loosening of flash eliminator

(b) Loosening of Piece guide

(c) Upper Hand Guard requirement

(d) Additional safety in firing mechanism

(e) Grenade sight requirement

(f) Improved Lever Locking Gas Cylinder

(ii) DRDO & Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) jointly took up product improvement program based on the above feedback received from User. Necessary improvements were carried out and introduced in the Improved Rifle as Rifle Mark 1B1 in 2001. Later on, plastic magazine cracking problem was reported. Earlier, the magazine were procured ex-trade. The magazine production has now been established at Ordnance Factory Dum Dum and problems have been resolved.’

1.42 The Ministry further stated:

‘Lethality of INSAS Ammunition perceived to be less. A Lethal Ammunition design in 5.56 Caliber was evolved and the same was trial evaluated by user and found acceptable by Indian Army in 2013 however, Army is yet to introduce the same.’

1.43 On the cost of development it further stated that DRDO has developed the INSAS weapon system at a cost of Rs. 3.50 Cr. The necessary cost of improvements was borne by OFB:

‘The INSAS Rifle was developed based on GSQR No. 429 in 1982 meeting all parameters. With the change in operational environment/war scenario a new Rifle development under Tech demo mode was envisaged. To meet the current requirement a state-of-the-art Rifle [Multi Caliber Individual Weapon System, (MCIWS)] development was taken up as R&D project in 2008. The prototypes have been developed and are under evaluation.’

*Assault Rifle*

1.44 The Committee have learnt that INSAS rifle is planned to be replaced by the new Assault rifle. The INSAS rifle has been in use since 1994-95. Over the years technological development has prepared more superior rifles, such as assault. The Ministry is in the process of procuring Assault Rifles through global route with transfer of technology to Ordnance Factory Board. The request for proposal was issued in November, 2011. Technical evaluation of the bids is stated to be in progress. The Committee were desirous to know latest position with regard to new Rifle. The Ministry stated as under:

‘Indian Army is in the process of procuring Assault Rifles through a global tender with Transfer of Technology to Ordnance Factory Board. Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) was not asked to develop and produce an alternative rifle on its own. The Army uses inservice INSAS and AK-47 rifles in various situations. The new rifle under procurement is multi Calibre, lighter in weight and has additional features.’

Not sure if already posted. Cant quote link.
This is from STANDING COMMITTEE THIRD REPORT ON DEFENCE (2014-2015)


----------



## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


> Link to the video bro?





Water Car Engineer said:


> Dont have the video, either. I dont know where the person got the screen shots.

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## Water Car Engineer

*Trichy's AK Clone, "T.A.R."*























*Ishapore's AK Clone, "Ghatak"*

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## holysaturn

Any idea on how many Ghataks are being manufactured, other than the 50000 previously placed. Is the army going to replace older AKMs with this,as the RFP for 7.62x51,5.56x45mm rifles and carbines are yet to be issued and will take time for procurement.


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## Water Car Engineer

*INSAS MK1C*

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## Sensei

Excalibur to hold the fort now
Updated: October 24, 2016 01:33 IST | Dinakar Peri






The INSAS rifles used by the Army since the mid-1990s have been causing trouble.—File photo: Akhilesh Kumar | The Hindu
Army plans to induct the assault rifle as stopgap till a better model is procured
Faced with a huge delay in acquiring world-class rifles for its soldiers, the Army is now reluctantly planning to induct the indigenously developed Excalibur, an assault rifle it had initially rejected, though in limited numbers.

The fully automatic rifle, which fires 5.56mm ammunition built by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), is an upgraded version of the trouble-prone INSAS (Indian National Small Arms System) inducted in the mid-1990s.

Army sources said that with the procurement delays in mind, the force is looking to induct the Excalibur to replace the INSAS till the time a new rifle joins the force.

“The Army has shown interest in a modified form of Excalibur. The exact number and time frame has not yet been intimated by the Army,” the Public Relations Officer of the OFB told _The Hindu_ in response to a query.

The Army has been trying to replace the INSAS and had launched an ambitious global tender for interchangeable barrels capable of firing both 5.56mm and 7.62mm calibre bullets. After extensive trials, the tender was cancelled early this year as none of the contenders could meet the requirements.

The Army has now decided to go for 7.62mm calibre and fresh General Staff Quality Requirements (GSQR) have just been issued.

The Excalibur was comprehensively evaluated at Infantry School, Mhow, in November 2005 and recommended for induction in the Army in due course of time, the PRO said. But the Army later did not show interest in its induction, which has changed in light of the procurement delays.

However before induction, the Army wants to carry out extensive user exploitation trails to validate the rifle.

Sources said that to save time and shorten the process, the Army intended to procure large volume of the guns to carry out simultaneous trials in various locations.

The Rifle Factory, Ishapore, had produced 15 prototypes for user and quality evaluation, and additional features sought by the user are to be incorporated. However, the OFB is yet to receive any communication for large volumes for exploitation trails, sources said.

Source: The Hindu


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## Water Car Engineer

OFB bolt action rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm prototype

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## AMCA

Water Car Engineer said:


> OFB bolt action rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm prototype



Now thats interesting. Never knew we were working on something like this.


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## Water Car Engineer

AMCA said:


> Now thats interesting. Never knew we were working on something like this.




It's going through trials, so expect changes to its design. As per K.B.(source)


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## Water Car Engineer

INSAS MK1C, MCIWS, ARDE-Cornershot






JVPC

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## GuardianRED

Water Car Engineer said:


> INSAS MK1C, MCIWS, ARDE-Cornershot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVPC


Is that Ajay Shukla?

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## Water Car Engineer

GuardianRED said:


> Is that Ajay Shukla?




Yeah

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## Water Car Engineer

*Micro-INSAS, Amogh*

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Nilgiri

Water Car Engineer said:


> *Micro-INSAS, Amogh*




Where are these taken from?


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## Water Car Engineer

*MCIWS is renamed to AAR - Advanced Assault Rifle

The ARDE's Advanced Assault Rifle (AAR) , previously known as MCIWS, is going to be inducted into Indian Armed Forces within just 6-10 months if any further problem doesn't arise. All modifications, suggested and demanded by army, have been done. All trials have been conducted successfully. The new model has reduced the weight further, means AAR is lighter than early MCIWS. It can accept 5.56, 6.8, and 7.62 mm ammo, giving an edge. AK magazines can be used in 7.62mm configuration. Weapon rate of fire is 600-650 RPM with 500m range. More than 250 models have been evaluated and more than 25000 rounds have been fired till now from each rifle.*


















*Now name changed to Joint Venture Personal Carbine. Weapon is improved after Army's suggestions. Weapon is light and accurate. According to DRDO ARDE Officials, Weapon is going to be in service in 12 months. Army is conducting field trials of this version.*

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## Nilgiri

Water Car Engineer said:


> *MCIWS is renamed to AAR - Advanced Assault Rifle
> 
> The Advanced Assault Rifle (AAR) , previously known as MCIWS, is going to be inducted into Indian Armed Forces within just 6-10 months if any further problem doesn't arise. All modifications, suggested and demanded by army, have been done. All trials have been conducted successfully. The new model has reduced the weight further, means AAR is lighter than early MCIWS. It can accept 5.56, 6.8, and 7.62 mm ammo, giving an edge. More than 250 models have been evaluated and more than 25000 rounds have been fired still now.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now name changed to Joint Venture Personal Carbine. Weapon is improved after Army's suggestions. Weapon is light and accurate. According to DRDO ARDE Officials, Weapon is going to be in service in 12 months. Army is conducting field trials of this version.*



Saw a fb page on it earlier. I thought the project was canned pretty much....but now its back.

Where is it going to place in the multitude of other rifle systems India is acquiring/looking to acquire?

Seriously confusing AF.


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## Water Car Engineer

Nilgiri said:


> Saw a fb page on it earlier. I thought the project was canned pretty much....but now its back.
> 
> Where is it going to place in the multitude of other rifle systems India is acquiring/looking to acquire?
> 
> Seriously confusing AF.




I guess we'll have to wait and see where it'll end up, but the regular infantry is get 7.62*52, which that platform doesnt support. Unless the one being trialed by OFB is such a model.

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## Sully3

Water Car Engineer said:


> Another cornershot equivalent. From Zen Tech, ShootEdge.


Pakistan developed this 7 years ago.

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## Nilgiri

Water Car Engineer said:


> I guess we'll have to wait and see where it'll end up, but the regular infantry is get 7.62*52, which that platform doesnt support. Unless the one being trialed by OFB is such a model.



So we are calling it quits with 5.56 for regular infantry long term?


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Nilgiri said:


> So we are calling it quits with 5.56 for regular infantry long term?




Pretty much, unless, they go back on their recent requirement, like they did with the multi caliber one.

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## Water Car Engineer

The older 2015, MCIWS, model. The barrel seems to be slightly longer than the newer, renamed, AAR models.



Water Car Engineer said:


> *MCIWS is renamed to AAR - Advanced Assault Rifle
> 
> The ARDE's Advanced Assault Rifle (AAR) , previously known as MCIWS, is going to be inducted into Indian Armed Forces within just 6-10 months if any further problem doesn't arise. All modifications, suggested and demanded by army, have been done. All trials have been conducted successfully. The new model has reduced the weight further, means AAR is lighter than early MCIWS. It can accept 5.56, 6.8, and 7.62 mm ammo, giving an edge. AK magazines can be used in 7.62mm configuration. Weapon rate of fire is 600-650 RPM with 500m range. More than 250 models have been evaluated and more than 25000 rounds have been fired till now from each rifle.*

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## Water Car Engineer

*













T.A.R. - Another AK Clone, for police, etc.
*


> *We have orders to produce 4,000 units for four State police departments including Chattisgarh,” said K Appa Rao, general manager, OFT.*



http://www.newindianexpress.com/sta...-rifle-as-answer-to-iconic-ak-47-1583048.html

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## Water Car Engineer

New belt fed LMG

Pretty much a FN MAG clone with P-rails.

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## GuardianRED

Water Car Engineer said:


> New belt fed LMG
> 
> Pretty much a FN MAG clone with P-rails.







FN MAG

Yes look the very much identical! .... Damn ... ToT/Licensed?


----------



## saumyasupratik

Water Car Engineer said:


> New belt fed LMG
> 
> Pretty much a FN MAG clone with P-rails.


Lighter weight MAG with some differences in the gas block and it's lighter than M240L which uses a shorter barrel. Looks like they've shed quite a lot of weight somehow. Original MG 2A1 used in the sustained fire role without bipod ,buttstock and tripod is 11.1 KG for comparison.

Can you point me to the source, twitter links, insta links of both these photos?

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## Water Car Engineer

GuardianRED said:


> FN MAG
> 
> Yes look the very much identical! .... Damn ... ToT/Licensed?




None, it's a lighter clone by ARDE/DRDO-OFB. The heavier tripod version without the butt stock is produced under license.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Sloth 22

It looks more of a PKT clone than a FN MAG.


----------



## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer

*7.62*51 OFB Rifle*

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## Water Car Engineer




----------



## Water Car Engineer

*Amogh, Micro INSAS with coast guard
*




*
7.62*51 OFB Rifle Prototypes
*

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## Water Car Engineer

Punj Llyod to produce and test IWI weapons

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## Water Car Engineer

*Trichy Assault Rifle, AK clone for police, etc.*














*OFB 7.62x51 AR early prototype










Joint Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC)*

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## Nilgiri

Water Car Engineer said:


> *Trichy Assault Rifle, AK clone for police, etc.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *OFB 7.62x51 AR early prototype
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joint Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC)*



Prototypes all look nice. But production wise (esp realised quality) OFB leaves a lot to be desired these days (the unionsed lazy workers and all the atmosphere that creates). Honestly they should be liquidated and sold to private manufacturer....best parts of OFB can be made into a design/RnD house. Era of strategic PSU should be rejected along with Nehru fabian socialism.

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## Water Car Engineer

*AMOGH 5.56x30 carbine/ PDW*

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## Water Car Engineer

*JVPC PDW 5.56x30






JVPC, INSAS MK1C, Ghatak




*




*
RM with JVPC*

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## bloo

Nilgiri said:


> Prototypes all look nice. But production wise (esp realised quality) OFB leaves a lot to be desired these days (the unionsed lazy workers and all the atmosphere that creates). Honestly they should be liquidated and sold to private manufacturer....best parts of OFB can be made into a design/RnD house. Era of strategic PSU should be rejected along with Nehru fabian socialism.



http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...nment-mod-ordnance-armed-forces/1/973514.html

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...oratise-ordnance-factories/article6797531.ece

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...s-to-private-players/articleshow/58570416.cms

http://thehitavada.com/Encyc/2017/5...zing-employees,-initiates-superannuation.aspx

Good days are a coming.
And the death knell has rung for all of this socialist non sense.

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## Water Car Engineer

*OFB, Trichy Assault Rifle, AK clone ordered by some police, etc. forces.










JVPC, ordered by CRPF, some police forces, IA trials end this year










Amogh used by couple of polices forces.*

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## The_Sidewinder

Cool


----------



## Water Car Engineer

*7.62X51 OFB rifle prototype -- Very early design, already a model with new muzzle break, etc.*














*TRINETRA MRWS (MULTI PURPOSE REFLEX WEAPON SIGHT)






JVPC disassembly *

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## Water Car Engineer



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## bananarepublic

Water Car Engineer said:


>


It looks good and more refined
Lets hope it doesn't turn into another crappy insas...


----------



## Unknowncommando

bananarepublic said:


> It looks good and more refined
> Lets hope it doesn't turn into another crappy insas...


Actually INSAS & INSAS 1B were too bad. Then INSAS 1B1 solved many issues. While there are no complaints about Excalibur variants. Yes expectations are high from MK1C.

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## Water Car Engineer

*Ghatak, AK clone, with ITBP, border police *






*Gujarat's State Police Commando with JVPC







JVPC REVIEW FROM a warrior who has fired Tavor, AK, Insas and various other weapons in real combat 

POSITIVES

• It’s a compact weapon.
• It’s a lightweight weapon.
• A sturdy weapon.
• Good holographic sights.
• It gives a very good feel to the user.
• It has negligible recoil on both the modes of fire i.e. Burst mode and Single shot mode.
• Encountered very low rate of stoppages per 1000 round when fired during the tests.

NEGATIVES

• Pistol grip could be made much better, current grip could be painful for the user after prolonged use.
• Extendable buttstock needs to be made much stronger.

CONCLUSION
• Overall performance was quite good.
• A highly recommended weapon for INFANTRY (The Ultimate).*

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## Water Car Engineer

*Ghatak AK Clone*






*OFB 7.62X51 LMG*


----------



## axisofevil

Water Car Engineer said:


> *Ghatak, AK clone, with ITBP, border police *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Gujarat's State Police Commando with JVPC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JVPC REVIEW FROM a warrior who has fired Tavor, AK, Insas and various other weapons in real combat
> 
> POSITIVES
> 
> • It’s a compact weapon.
> • It’s a lightweight weapon.
> • A sturdy weapon.
> • Good holographic sights.
> • It gives a very good feel to the user.
> • It has negligible recoil on both the modes of fire i.e. Burst mode and Single shot mode.
> • Encountered very low rate of stoppages per 1000 round when fired during the tests.
> 
> NEGATIVES
> 
> • Pistol grip could be made much better, current grip could be painful for the user after prolonged use.
> • Extendable buttstock needs to be made much stronger.
> 
> CONCLUSION
> • Overall performance was quite good.
> • A highly recommended weapon for INFANTRY (The Ultimate).*




Without actually holding the weapon, its quite obvious the buttstock of the jvpc is quite flimsy... there are so many netter variants of buttstocka throughout the world.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

-----------------------------------------------------------------

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## Water Car Engineer

*JVPC, Ghatak, INSAS Excalibur Mark 1 in production*

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## Water Car Engineer

Manipur police MINSAS







ARR


----------



## Water Car Engineer

*OFB 7.62*51 Sniper rifle Tamil Nadu police *


----------



## bananarepublic

Water Car Engineer said:


> Manipur police MINSAS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ARR


Which calibur is the first gun ??


Water Car Engineer said:


> *OFB 7.62*51 Sniper rifle Tamil Nadu police *


Thats rifle is really bulky is plastic or polymer being used ??


----------



## Water Car Engineer

bananarepublic said:


> Which calibur is the first gun ??
> 
> Thats rifle is really bulky is plastic or polymer being used ??




Wood.



bananarepublic said:


> Which calibur is the first gun ??




5.56×30mm MINSAS

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## Water Car Engineer

JVPC in production






INSAS LMG BEL Night Vision






MINSAS

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## Water Car Engineer

Ghatak AK clone

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## Water Car Engineer

*Trichy AK clone*






*7.62 Belt Fed LMG*

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## Water Car Engineer

R2 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle from the OFB. Exhibited better accuracy and greater stopping power in head to head trials against the Galil version. Also note the updated muzzle brake.

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## Omega007

Water Car Engineer said:


> R2 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle from the OFB. Exhibited better accuracy and greater stopping power in head to head trials against the Galil version. Also note the updated muzzle brake.



The barrel seems to be way too short for a battle rifle, at least an 18" barrel should have been used.


----------



## Skull and Bones

OFB should make some new guns for civilians, ashani is hideous to look at.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

*OFB 7.62X51 AR*














*OFB 7.62X51 LMG*

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer

*OFB modifed AK with BEL NV and Holo sights
*
It's their take on the recently very popular Israeli FAB mod-tuning kits done to old AKs, like below.
*



*

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## Panzerfaust 3

Water Car Engineer said:


>


How many of these pdw's have been ordered? And why they are not ordered in large numbers ?
Even BSF is using stupid MX4 carbine,


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Panzerfaust 3 said:


> How many of these pdw's have been ordered? And why they are not ordered in large numbers ?
> Even BSF is using stupid MX4 carbine,




33k by CRPF. 100s by several police forces. You'll start to see them a lot.


----------



## Panzerfaust 3

Water Car Engineer said:


> 33k by CRPF. 100s by several police forces. You'll start to see them a lot.


33 k that's great! but seriously our forces need to order them in numbers


----------



## Water Car Engineer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/993100660353609729

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## Nilgiri

Water Car Engineer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/993100660353609729


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Water Car Engineer said:


> *OFB modifed AK with BEL NV and Holo sights*













*Another AK with OFB modern furniture for older AKs






Amogh - Micro INSAS*

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## Water Car Engineer

7.62x51 AR

This muzzle break is crazy

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## Panzerfaust 3

Water Car Engineer said:


> 7.62x51 AR
> 
> This muzzle break is crazy


Looks like they are desperately trying to limit the flash
But I think they should refine the design


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Panzerfaust 3 said:


> Looks like they are desperately trying to limit the flash
> But I think they should refine the design




And recoil, it's not a finished product by any means. They said the recoil shouldnt be an issue now due to the new muzzle. For the caliber it wasnt that much to begin with.


----------



## Panzerfaust 3

Water Car Engineer said:


> And recoil, it's not a finished product by any means. They said the recoil shouldnt be an issue now due to the new muzzle. For the caliber it wasnt that much to begin with.


Yeah rifle in this caliber is bound to have tremendous kick ,unless they design a recoil reducing system like kriss vector sub machine gun but that too will add weight to the design,
I think this muzzle will be marginally successful ,
They should take design features from SCAR H ,and hk 417

On a second note don't you think they should have gone for a 7.62 version of the MCIWS?
I mean they could have easily added one more caliber to the design,


----------



## Nilgiri

Water Car Engineer said:


> 7.62x51 AR
> 
> This muzzle break is crazy



Maybe integrated flash suppressor too?


Panzerfaust 3 said:


> Looks like they are desperately trying to limit the flash
> But I think they should refine the design



I was gonna say integrated flash hider, but it doesnt look quite right for that. @jhungary 



Water Car Engineer said:


> They said the recoil shouldnt be an issue now due to the new muzzle. For the caliber it wasnt that much to begin with.



They probably just gassed the system up pretty high (i.e run the ammo as "hot" as you can) to test the worst case scenarios the best you can...so yeah a solid chunky muzzle brake would help with that.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Panzerfaust 3 said:


> On a second note don't you think they should have gone for a 7.62 version of the MCIWS?
> I mean they could have easily added one more caliber to the design,




Yeah, I dont know what they're doing with it tho. MCIWS/AAR is a DRDO program, not OFB. DRDO should work with private sector for that, if they havent completely dumped it by now.



Nilgiri said:


> Maybe integrated flash suppressor too?




Maybe, but I am the wrong person to ask.

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## jhungary

Nilgiri said:


> Maybe integrated flash suppressor too?
> 
> 
> I was gonna say integrated flash hider, but it doesnt look quite right for that. @jhungary
> 
> 
> 
> They probably just gassed the system up pretty high (i.e run the ammo as "hot" as you can) to test the worst case scenarios the best you can...so yeah a solid chunky muzzle brake would help with that.



Looked like a normal muzzle break to me, if it is a flash hider, you will see the hole are probably bigger on the break, which allow gas to dissipate more rapidly.

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## Panzerfaust 3

Nilgiri said:


> I was gonna say integrated flash hider, but it doesnt look quite right for that.


Oh yeah it's quite weird , I have never seen a flash hider like this 
Remember the micro insas? They tried something with that too!



Water Car Engineer said:


> Yeah, I dont know what they're doing with it tho. MCIWS/AAR is a DRDO program, not OFB. DRDO should work with private sector for that, if they havent completely dumped it by now.


Hopefully MCIWS will see service in the paramilitary forces,(we can only hope )
I am sure they will do the same to MCIWS what they did to msmc it's introduction is ten years late 
Yeah I believe the production should be done by private industry ,they can ensure quality and consistency

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## Water Car Engineer

Ghatak AK clone


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Upgrade kit for legacy AK47s by Bangalore company, currently trialing by SF @padmaraj

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## Water Car Engineer

Water Car Engineer said:


> Upgrade kit for legacy AK47s by Bangalore company, currently trialing by SF @padmaraj












More

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## MimophantSlayer

Water Car Engineer said:


> More



What company is this?


----------



## Panzerfaust 3

Water Car Engineer said:


> More


Indian ak alpha!!


----------



## Water Car Engineer

more


----------



## Water Car Engineer

RIP, decent design the never got refined, killed due to requirement change.

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## Water Car Engineer

Similar to old AK upgrades. Old INSAS getting new furniture.

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## axisofevil

Water Car Engineer said:


> Similar to old AK upgrades. Old INSAS getting new furniture.





So the gun is still crap right?


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Some sort of carbine was produced by OFB.

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## Water Car Engineer

Water Car Engineer said:


> More





Water Car Engineer said:


> Upgrade kit for legacy AK47s by Bangalore company, currently trialing by SF @padmaraj








Up-gradation kit for SVD marksmen.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

R2






Ex






Ghatak






R2, Ghatak

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## Water Car Engineer

*Upgrade Kit for SVD Marksmen







New MCIWS Design






Old MCIWS Design
*


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Stumpp Scheule Defence *7.62x39mm* Assault Rifle






Viper* 7.62x51mm *and Saber* .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge*
*




*

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## Water Car Engineer

One of the new sniper rifles






Modernized SVD

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----------



## SleeveofWizard

Are any of these ever inducted or are they just for museums?


----------



## Water Car Engineer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1225025961332219905

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## Water Car Engineer

7.62x36 AR






7.62x36 Carbine






7.62x51 Sniper Rifle


















.338 lapua magnum Sniper Rifle

@SSSDefence






OFB Small Arms






OFB .338 lapua magnum Sniper Rifle






OFB 5.56 Carbine






MCIWS

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Water Car Engineer

Astr Defence small arms



Water Car Engineer said:


> 7.62x36 AR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.62x36 Carbine



My mistake, first one is a DMR.






This is AR.

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## Water Car Engineer

*AAR Rifle at 6.8X43mm AR*

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer

M2 Browning Clone or License Production by OFB


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> 7.62x36 AR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.62x36 Carbine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.62x51 Sniper Rifle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .338 lapua magnum Sniper Rifle
> 
> @SSSDefence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OFB Small Arms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OFB .338 lapua magnum Sniper Rifle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OFB 5.56 Carbine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MCIWS


The pics from the exhibition show US 338 saber. Cheap 1000+ dollar rifles.


Its built by some workshop type company Ashbury precision.
Infact the other 7.62 etc are also not indian but seems a private indian company is marketing foreign weapons from small time vendors as “made in india”. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> M2 Browning Clone or License Production by OFB


Or perhaps browned one.

India was given a small number of these.

Heck even we Pakistanis had them (in rather large numbers) before we phased them out for licensed DSHKs & 14.7mms.
Again thankfully we developed a lighter local HMG, PK-16.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The pics from the exhibition show US 338 saber.
> Its built by some workshop type company Ashbury precision.
> Infact the other 7.62 etc are also not indian but seems a private indian company is marketing foreign weapons from small time vendors as “made in india”.



No, it's not. They control all IPR of all it's rifles and snipers, they've done rapid modifications of these platforms. The early rifle model prototype dont look the same as the recent shown models.

They have a partnership with Lewis Machine Tools, but getting tech from them was difficult due to US regulations.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Or perhaps browned one.
> 
> India was given a small number of these.
> 
> Heck even we Pakistanis had them (in rather large numbers) before we phased them out for licensed DSHKs & 14.7mms.
> Again thankfully we developed a lighter local HMG, PK-16.



OFB would not show it in their display if it was a direct import. It's either a licensed, or a clone.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> Similar to old AK upgrades. Old INSAS getting new furniture.


Yeah FAB defence, you can order one line. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> No, it's not. They control all IPR of all it's rifles and snipers, they've done rapid modifications of these platforms. The early rifle model prototype dont look the same as the recent shown models.
> 
> They have a partnership with Lewis Machine Tools, but getting tech from them was difficult due to US regulations.



Dude STFU, Ashbury makes custom rifles & accessories. These are their baseline products.
That so called viper is a 1000-1200 dollar rifle.

And that 338 costs around 2000. You can even buy em online.















Regulations lmao.





> OFB would not show it in their display if it was a direct import. It's either a licensed, or a clone.



Yeah right.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Regulations lmao.









Ashbury Saber








SSS defene Saber


Most of these modern snipers look similar, these dont even look a like.

This isnt "buying online". This is modifying the platforms due to user requirements and selling them not just to India, but broad. They got hit with US regulations when dealing with their _actual_ US partner, LMT. And you're talking about buying online and from a company they have no partnership with, what are you smoking?

You buy online give to the user then send it back and have them modify the rifles, snipers again?

NO, they control the IPR of all the snipers and small arms. You dont know what you're talking about. They made rapid modifications from prototype to these show case models due to internal, user trials.

The INSAS modifications is from FAB. Never said it wasnt.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> Ashbury Saber
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SSS defene Saber
> 
> 
> Most of these modern snipers look similar, these dont even look a like.
> 
> This isnt "buying online". This is modifying the platforms due to user requirements and selling them not just to India, but broad. They got hit with US regulations when dealing with their actual US partner, LMT. And you're talking about buying online and from a company they have no partnership with, what you smoking?
> 
> They control the IPR of all the snipers and small arms. You dont know what you're talking about.
> 
> The INSAS modifications is from FAB. Never said it wasnt.


Hey fukin dumbass, what are you going on about? Its a cheap american gun with different furniture?





The same fuckin rifle.

We use range masters,berrets etc, we also use accessories with them. That doesnt mean they are Pakistani made. 

You are an idiot who believes in nonsense. People are not.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Ashbury Saber
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SSS defene Saber
> 
> 
> Most of these modern snipers look similar, these dont even look a like.
> 
> This isnt "buying online". This is modifying the platforms due to user requirements and selling them not just to India, but broad. They got hit with US regulations when dealing with their _actual_ US partner, LMT. And you're talking about buying online and from a company they have no partnership with, what are you smoking?
> 
> You buy online give to the user then send it back and have them modify the rifles, snipers again?
> 
> NO, they control the IPR of all the snipers and small arms. You dont know what you're talking about. They made rapid modifications from prototype to these show case models due to internal, user trials.
> 
> The INSAS modifications is from FAB. Never said it wasnt.


And here is that “Viper”,





You schmuck.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Ashbury Saber
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SSS defene Saber
> 
> 
> Most of these modern snipers look similar, these dont even look a like.
> 
> This isnt "buying online". This is modifying the platforms due to user requirements and selling them not just to India, but broad. They got hit with US regulations when dealing with their _actual_ US partner, LMT. And you're talking about buying online and from a company they have no partnership with, what are you smoking?
> 
> You buy online give to the user then send it back and have them modify the rifles, snipers again?
> 
> NO, they control the IPR of all the snipers and small arms. You dont know what you're talking about. They made rapid modifications from prototype to these show case models due to internal, user trials.
> 
> The INSAS modifications is from FAB. Never said it wasnt.


You nincompoop, its the barrel and firing mechanism that makes a rifle.

You can put like furniture, bipod, sight on it.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Hey fukin dumbass, what are you going on about? Its a cheap american gun with different furniture?
> 
> View attachment 604407
> 
> The same fuckin rifle.
> 
> We use range masters,berrets etc, we also use accessories with them. That doesnt mean they are Pakistani made.
> 
> You are an idiot who believes in nonsense. People are not.
> 
> 
> And here is that “Viper”,
> View attachment 604408
> 
> 
> You schmuck.



You most be the idiot, because I keep repeating myself.

They have one technical partnership, that's with LMT and with Brazilian ammunition company. They couldn't leverage that partnership fully, because of US regulations, restrictions. This is said so by the owner.

Do you know what else is also said? They control the IPR of all their platforms, they can do whatever they please with them.

They have NO partnership with the company you even mentioned. Get a clue, dumbass. 

So they, in your idiot idea, buy these in bulk online and want to resell them outside and in India? You're doing a lot of the name calling, but you're the idiot.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yeah right.




Stfu  Why would OFB show a direct import? Do they show Bulgarian AKs, or Tavors at their display? Have common sense.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> You most be the idiot, because I keep repeating myself.
> 
> They have one technical partnership, that's with LMT. They couldn't leverage that partnership, because of US regulations. This is said so by the owner.
> 
> Do you know what else is also said? They control the IPR of all their platforms, they can do whatever they please with them.
> 
> They have NO partnership with the company you even mentioned. Get a clue, dumbass.


You are such a fukwit, i stopped arguing with you like 99% of the time.

So you are basically “moaning”, that you cant import these weapons from US, because of US regulations and had to collaborate with another american company for it?


And now they have all rights to the rifle before even selling a single rifle?

This “SS” company.

Here is another clue you idiot, LMT, doesnt make 338 or 7.62 bolt actions.

https://lmtdefense.com/firearms

The stocks on the APOs are however from LMT, from the looks of it.


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## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You are such a fukwit, i stopped arguing with you like 99% of the time.
> 
> So you are basically “moaning”, that you cant import these weapons from US, because of US regulations and had to collaborate with another american company for it?
> 
> 
> And now they have all rights to the rifle before even selling a single rifle?
> 
> This “SS” company.
> 
> Here is another clue you idiot, LMT, doesnt make 338 or 7.62 bolt actions.
> 
> https://lmtdefense.com/firearms
> 
> The stocks on the APOs are however from LMT, from the looks of it.



Why cant you get this through you head?

Step 1: They had trouble with their ACTUAL, legit US small arms technical partner in LMT.

Step 2: And you want me to believe some company they have no inked partnership(no MoU nothing!) with could allow them to bulk buy, or modify, or market, manufacture and sell abroad their rifles, snipers - when they have no partnership with them, unlike LMT? Is that clearly understood? 

Step 3: There is not agreement, partnership, etc, etc, etc. with the company which you mentioned.

Step 4: Biggest thing that's not going through your thick head is they control the IPR of these platforms.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> Why cant you get this through you head?
> 
> Step 1: They had trouble with their ACTUAL, legit US small arms technical partner in LMT.
> 
> Step 2: And you want me to believe some company they have no inked partnership(no MoU nothing!) with could allow them to bulk buy, or modify, or market, sell abroad their rifles - when they have no partnership with them, unlike LMT? Is that clearly understood?
> 
> Step 3: There is not agreement, partnership, etc, etc, etc. with the company which you mentioned.
> 
> Step: 4 Biggest thing that's not going through your thick head is they control the IPR of these platforms.


Okay dude, these made in india. Fuk them mericans, they copied indian designs and didnt let me gopuswamy take advantage.

Im past 5 years your state owned ordinance factory couldnt produce a fukin rifle and is making insaas clones and now AK clones.

But now you have SS defence to the rescue


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## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Okay dude, these made in india. Fuk them mericans, they copied indian designs and didnt let me gopuswamy take advantage.
> 
> Im past 5 years your state owned ordinance factory couldnt produce a fukin rifle and is making insaas clones and now AK clones.
> 
> But now you have SS defence to the rescue



OFB and the private sector are completely different. There are several small, but very competent private firms in India. Never said Americans copied Indian designs.You couldnt counter none of what I said, keep it moving son.

=======================================


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1227105436022669312


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## Water Car Engineer

*P-72 Family of Assault Rifles*







DMR







AR






Carbine






7.62x51 sniper










.338 Sniper






























More

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CONNAN

Water Car Engineer said:


> *P-72 Family of Assault Rifles*
> More



Great pics Water Cars finally something more tactical and practical even though its TOT but still best compared to what OFB idiots are doing . good to see this from Indian private defence forms. hope they get into those inner circles  and make path to shut down of some shitty OFB divisions

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## Water Car Engineer

CONNAN said:


> Great pics Water Cars finally something more tactical and practical even though its TOT but still best compared to what OFB idiots are doing . good to see this from Indian private defence forms. hope they get into those inner circles  and make path to shut down of some shitty OFB divisions



It's not TOT. They control the IPR and have certain patents regarding the small arms. I dont know if they got help, but they control the designs.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CONNAN

Water Car Engineer said:


> It's not TOT. They control the IPR and have certain patents regarding the small arms. I dont know if they got help, but they control the designs.


thank you for correcting me , I really wish them the best hope they get a chance to prove their products and get contracts from IA

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Water Car Engineer

TAR Carbine - AK74U Clone


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## Water Car Engineer




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## Water Car Engineer




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## Water Car Engineer




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## Water Car Engineer




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## Nilgiri

@Water Car Engineer

Reactions: Like Like:
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## THE SEEKER

where do these weapons fit in , regarding above one's IA has already selected their slandered assault rifle AK 203.


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## Water Car Engineer




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## Anik101

9mm submachine gun developed by Lt. Col. Prasad Bansod with assistance from DRDO ARDE


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## Anik101

OFB 8.6x70mm sniper





DRDO JVPC





AK74U copy





Carbine based on INSAS mk1C





INSAS mk1C





M2B by OFB





Vidhwanshak AMR


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