# Low cost ventilator - Indigenous production - Covid-19



## Ace of Spades

I am creating this thread to discuss the idea, designs and potential way to produce low cost ventilators in Pakistan. In Pakistan there are only 2000-ish ventilators, which are not enough for current epidemic. And i am afraid masses will die because of lack of ventilators.

In its simplest form, a modern positive pressure ventilator consists of a compressible air reservoir or turbine, air and oxygen supplies, a set of valves and tubes, and a disposable or reusable "patient circuit". The air reservoir is pneumatically compressed several times a minute to deliver room-air, or in most cases, an air/oxygen mixture to the patient. If a turbine is used, the turbine pushes air through the ventilator, with a flow valve adjusting pressure to meet patient-specific parameters. When over pressure is released, the patient will exhale passively due to the lungs' elasticity, the exhaled air being released usually through a one-way valve within the patient circuit called the patient manifold. Ventilators may also be equipped with monitoring and alarm systems for patient-related parameters (e.g. pressure, volume, and flow) and ventilator function (e.g. air leakage, power failure, mechanical failure), backup batteries, oxygen tanks, and remote control. The pneumatic system is nowadays often replaced by a computer-controlled turbopump.

If any of you guys have design experience, electrical/ mechanical/ programming engineering knowledge please chip in and help design low cost/ indigenous project. You can contribute to save lives. I am sharing some design ideas and a research paper for reference. It would be great to work on a design through which a ventilator can be produced via locally available materials for prototyping and eventually mass production. Also, for computing and software processing preferably if a smartphone can be integrated otherwise arduino, raspberry pi based ideas will be great.

https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf






https://blog.arduino.cc/2020/03/17/designing-a-low-cost-open-source-ventilator-with-arduino/






If windsheild wipper motors can be integrated via some gears, it's easy to find, cheap and can be integrated for mechanical part. 



@waz @Major Sam @Dubious @The Eagle @Indus Pakistan @Slav Defence @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Hakikat ve Hikmet @jaibi @The Accountant @BATMAN @PakSword @WebMaster
@ghazi52 @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Mangus Ortus Novem @Zaki @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Jungibaaz @Manticore @Chak Bamu @Emmie @blain2 @Adios Amigo @RazPaK @LoveIcon @Secur @S.U.R.B. @Abu Naser @waz @ZYXW @Umair Nawaz @Slav Defence @slapshot @Devil Soul @Zarvan @Pakistani Shaheen @raptor22 @Multani @Armstrong @rockstar08 @Jaanbaz @Aether @Informant @Marshmallow @qamar1990 @Pboy @liontk @Raja.Pakistani @Rajput_Pakistani @PWFI @Pukhtoon @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Patriots @Pakistanisage @Mirzay @Mugwop @Durrak @A.Rafay @p(-)0ENiX @Luftwaffe @Men in Green @Mani2020 @Leader @KingMamba @Jazzbot @JonAsad @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @HRK @Hyperion @gentalman @Fulcrum15 @farhanalee7 @dexter @Developereo @Darth Vader @Desert Fox @Crypto@Cheetah786 @chauvunist @cb4 @Bratva @balixd @batmannow @BATMAN @AUz @Areesh @Al Bhatti @air marshal @Proudpakistaniguy @DESERT FIGHTER
@Syed.Ali.Haider aka @VCheng @Slav Defence @MOHSENAM @Malghani @Moonlight @RescueRanger @WAJsal @Foxtrot Alpha @Horus @Sugarcane @Jango

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## HRK

Ace of Spades said:


> I am creating this thread to discuss the idea, designs and potential way to produce low cost ventilators in Pakistan. In Pakistan there are only 2000-ish ventilators, which are not enough for current epidemic. And i am afraid masses will die because of lack of ventilators.
> 
> In its simplest form, a modern positive pressure ventilator consists of a compressible air reservoir or turbine, air and oxygen supplies, a set of valves and tubes, and a disposable or reusable "patient circuit". The air reservoir is pneumatically compressed several times a minute to deliver room-air, or in most cases, an air/oxygen mixture to the patient. If a turbine is used, the turbine pushes air through the ventilator, with a flow valve adjusting pressure to meet patient-specific parameters. When over pressure is released, the patient will exhale passively due to the lungs' elasticity, the exhaled air being released usually through a one-way valve within the patient circuit called the patient manifold. Ventilators may also be equipped with monitoring and alarm systems for patient-related parameters (e.g. pressure, volume, and flow) and ventilator function (e.g. air leakage, power failure, mechanical failure), backup batteries, oxygen tanks, and remote control. The pneumatic system is nowadays often replaced by a computer-controlled turbopump.
> 
> If any of you guys have design experience, electrical/ mechanical/ programming engineering knowledge please chip in and help design low cost/ indigenous project. You can contribute to save lives. I am sharing some design ideas and a research paper for reference. It would be great to work on a design through which a ventilator can be produced via locally available materials for prototyping and eventually mass production. Also, for computing and software processing preferably if a smartphone can be integrated otherwise arduino, raspberry pi based ideas will be great.
> 
> https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://blog.arduino.cc/2020/03/17/designing-a-low-cost-open-source-ventilator-with-arduino/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @waz @Major Sam @Dubious @The Eagle @Indus Pakistan @Slav Defence @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Hakikat ve Hikmet @jaibi @The Accountant @BATMAN @PakSword @WebMaster
> @ghazi52 @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Mangus Ortus Novem @Zaki @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Jungibaaz @Manticore @Chak Bamu @Emmie @blain2 @Adios Amigo @RazPaK @LoveIcon @Secur @S.U.R.B. @Abu Naser @waz @ZYXW @Umair Nawaz @Slav Defence @slapshot @Devil Soul @Zarvan @Pakistani Shaheen @raptor22 @Multani @Armstrong @rockstar08 @Jaanbaz @Aether @Informant @Marshmallow @qamar1990 @Pboy @liontk @Raja.Pakistani @Rajput_Pakistani @PWFI @Pukhtoon @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Patriots @Pakistanisage @Mirzay @Mugwop @Durrak @A.Rafay @p(-)0ENiX @Luftwaffe @Men in Green @Mani2020 @Leader @KingMamba @Jazzbot @JonAsad @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @HRK @Hyperion @gentalman @Fulcrum15 @farhanalee7 @dexter @Developereo @Darth Vader @Desert Fox @Crypto@Cheetah786 @chauvunist @cb4 @Bratva @balixd @batmannow @BATMAN @AUz @Areesh @Al Bhatti @air marshal @Proudpakistaniguy @DESERT FIGHTER
> @Syed.Ali.Haider aka @VCheng @Slav Defence @MOHSENAM @Malghani @Moonlight @RescueRanger @WAJsal @Foxtrot Alpha @Horus @Sugarcane


having no such technical knowledge about these things so can't say how effective the ventilator system developed by a local engineer is .... plz visit the following link--1

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## Myth_buster_1

Or Pakistan can buy straight from China because no one in Pakistan is capable of even developing a fking screw on its own! 
Indeed its a good idea though.

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## Kabotar

An other design from Pakistan.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1241753447625564162

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## Pakistani Fighter

Ace of Spades said:


> I am creating this thread to discuss the idea, designs and potential way to produce low cost ventilators in Pakistan. In Pakistan there are only 2000-ish ventilators, which are not enough for current epidemic. And i am afraid masses will die because of lack of ventilators.
> 
> In its simplest form, a modern positive pressure ventilator consists of a compressible air reservoir or turbine, air and oxygen supplies, a set of valves and tubes, and a disposable or reusable "patient circuit". The air reservoir is pneumatically compressed several times a minute to deliver room-air, or in most cases, an air/oxygen mixture to the patient. If a turbine is used, the turbine pushes air through the ventilator, with a flow valve adjusting pressure to meet patient-specific parameters. When over pressure is released, the patient will exhale passively due to the lungs' elasticity, the exhaled air being released usually through a one-way valve within the patient circuit called the patient manifold. Ventilators may also be equipped with monitoring and alarm systems for patient-related parameters (e.g. pressure, volume, and flow) and ventilator function (e.g. air leakage, power failure, mechanical failure), backup batteries, oxygen tanks, and remote control. The pneumatic system is nowadays often replaced by a computer-controlled turbopump.
> 
> If any of you guys have design experience, electrical/ mechanical/ programming engineering knowledge please chip in and help design low cost/ indigenous project. You can contribute to save lives. I am sharing some design ideas and a research paper for reference. It would be great to work on a design through which a ventilator can be produced via locally available materials for prototyping and eventually mass production. Also, for computing and software processing preferably if a smartphone can be integrated otherwise arduino, raspberry pi based ideas will be great.
> 
> https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://blog.arduino.cc/2020/03/17/designing-a-low-cost-open-source-ventilator-with-arduino/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If windsheild wipper motors can be integrated via some gears, it's easy to find, cheap and can be integrated for mechanical part.
> 
> 
> 
> @waz @Major Sam @Dubious @The Eagle @Indus Pakistan @Slav Defence @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Hakikat ve Hikmet @jaibi @The Accountant @BATMAN @PakSword @WebMaster
> @ghazi52 @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Mangus Ortus Novem @Zaki @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Jungibaaz @Manticore @Chak Bamu @Emmie @blain2 @Adios Amigo @RazPaK @LoveIcon @Secur @S.U.R.B. @Abu Naser @waz @ZYXW @Umair Nawaz @Slav Defence @slapshot @Devil Soul @Zarvan @Pakistani Shaheen @raptor22 @Multani @Armstrong @rockstar08 @Jaanbaz @Aether @Informant @Marshmallow @qamar1990 @Pboy @liontk @Raja.Pakistani @Rajput_Pakistani @PWFI @Pukhtoon @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Patriots @Pakistanisage @Mirzay @Mugwop @Durrak @A.Rafay @p(-)0ENiX @Luftwaffe @Men in Green @Mani2020 @Leader @KingMamba @Jazzbot @JonAsad @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @HRK @Hyperion @gentalman @Fulcrum15 @farhanalee7 @dexter @Developereo @Darth Vader @Desert Fox @Crypto@Cheetah786 @chauvunist @cb4 @Bratva @balixd @batmannow @BATMAN @AUz @Areesh @Al Bhatti @air marshal @Proudpakistaniguy @DESERT FIGHTER
> @Syed.Ali.Haider aka @VCheng @Slav Defence @MOHSENAM @Malghani @Moonlight @RescueRanger @WAJsal @Foxtrot Alpha @Horus @Sugarcane @Jango


Come here

We need mechanical engineers who can research and design mechanical aspects of the ventilator. i.e. pressure valves, controlling air volume and oxygen concentration.
https://chat.whatsapp.com/HWerh4SUDzHITofeUxLtZL

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## Ace of Spades

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Come here
> 
> We need mechanical engineers who can research and design mechanical aspects of the ventilator. i.e. pressure valves, controlling air volume and oxygen concentration.
> https://chat.whatsapp.com/HWerh4SUDzHITofeUxLtZL



Unfortunately not an engineering person myself. But would love to contribute in medical research where needed.


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## Darth Vader

Problem lies with quality control and availability .
Yes, Cheaper options can be created and quickly but will you risk your loved 1s on that.
I would suggest to get a quality product from china at least with better quality and quickly

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## dbc

Darth Vader said:


> Problem lies with quality control and availability .
> Yes, Cheaper options can be created and quickly but will you risk your loved 1s on that.
> I would suggest to get a quality product from china at least with better quality and quickly



well even China can’t make enough ventilators for the whole world. Desperate times calls for desperate measures, sure it may increase risks but what is the alternative - besides death.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Just import from China , now is not time to invent shit the water has gone over the head as they say


Time to import ambulances
Get transport helicopters
Transport trucks
Fix logistical issues

All that time has passed unfortunately

The best approach is to stay at home .... eat conservatively

Planning is done 4-5 years or 20 years in advance


The level of awareness is low in Pakistan the best thing to do is run advertisement on TV
24/7 to ask people to stay inside their homes and avoid unnecessary travel



Corona Virus Special Quarantine centers should be setup outside the city

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## Ace of Spades

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Just import from China , now is not time to invent shit the water has gone over the head as they say
> 
> 
> Time to import ambulances
> Get transport helicopters
> Transport trucks
> Fix logistical issues
> 
> All that time has passed unfortunately



Bro, desperate times, desperate measures. It's an idea, can it work idk. Shall we try, definitely. 

The problem is that whole world needs ventilators right now, i don't know the numbers medical companies are producing currently and what's the demand. So far, what i am hearing is that every country is having problem to procure ventilators. Italy have much much more resources and medical staff. They could've had imported it from china if it was that simple. Again, i don't have complete knowledge on logistical issues each country is facing but current pandemic is an unprecedented problem that we have ever seen.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Considering we are a Textile producing nation the immediate thing could be just the mask itself


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## Indus Pakistan

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Or Pakistan can buy straight from China because no one in Pakistan is capable of even developing a fking screw on its own!


My sentiments exactly. Here in UK Prime Minister Johnson apealled yesterday for increased production of ventilators. Today dozens of people have answered the call. from F1 Mclaren racing team to hoover/vacuam manufactuers to small companies. Figures like 2,000 ventilators a day are now about to be hit. That means within weeks the country will have 10,000s of ventilators. All this is possible because even within a small country like UK they have the* men *[women] in large numbers who have the* education*, *knowledge* and* skills* to at a drop of the hat make ventilators in huge numbers. All this points to quality* manpower* within the country produced by a quality secular, secular education.

Now compare Pakistan. A country with four times greater population. So we have huge manpower. But what fcukin good are they? Besides giving fatwas, religious mumbo jumbo, million Quran hafiz, ten million madaris graduates, heap load of bullshat. Right no no fcukin dail a mullah or any mullah can help. Science, modern engineering and skills that are cornerstone of secular West and athiest China is what going to save the world.

If only our people realised this and began to re-configure Pakistan society toward the future so in a generation we too have a modern society.

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## Ace of Spades

Indus Pakistan said:


> Now compare Pakistan. A country with four times greater population



Pakistani diaspora including you, me and lots others are very successful in their second countries in their personal capacities. And there are number of professionals, Pakistan trained, working in west. And being a professional myself, worked in number of places from hospitals to academia. I can tell you from experience that Pakistani students and professionals are one of the best i have ever seen and this is without any bias. It's a ventilator not a space shuttle, if enough people chip in and with little will and help we can make it in days if not hours.

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## Indus Pakistan

Pakistan needs more of these ...








Not these ..

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## alee92nawaz

Ace of Spades said:


> I am creating this thread to discuss the idea, designs and potential way to produce low cost ventilators in Pakistan. In Pakistan there are only 2000-ish ventilators, which are not enough for current epidemic. And i am afraid masses will die because of lack of ventilators.
> 
> In its simplest form, a modern positive pressure ventilator consists of a compressible air reservoir or turbine, air and oxygen supplies, a set of valves and tubes, and a disposable or reusable "patient circuit". The air reservoir is pneumatically compressed several times a minute to deliver room-air, or in most cases, an air/oxygen mixture to the patient. If a turbine is used, the turbine pushes air through the ventilator, with a flow valve adjusting pressure to meet patient-specific parameters. When over pressure is released, the patient will exhale passively due to the lungs' elasticity, the exhaled air being released usually through a one-way valve within the patient circuit called the patient manifold. Ventilators may also be equipped with monitoring and alarm systems for patient-related parameters (e.g. pressure, volume, and flow) and ventilator function (e.g. air leakage, power failure, mechanical failure), backup batteries, oxygen tanks, and remote control. The pneumatic system is nowadays often replaced by a computer-controlled turbopump.
> 
> If any of you guys have design experience, electrical/ mechanical/ programming engineering knowledge please chip in and help design low cost/ indigenous project. You can contribute to save lives. I am sharing some design ideas and a research paper for reference. It would be great to work on a design through which a ventilator can be produced via locally available materials for prototyping and eventually mass production. Also, for computing and software processing preferably if a smartphone can be integrated otherwise arduino, raspberry pi based ideas will be great.
> 
> https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://blog.arduino.cc/2020/03/17/designing-a-low-cost-open-source-ventilator-with-arduino/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If windsheild wipper motors can be integrated via some gears, it's easy to find, cheap and can be integrated for mechanical part.
> 
> 
> 
> @waz @Major Sam @Dubious @The Eagle @Indus Pakistan @Slav Defence @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Hakikat ve Hikmet @jaibi @The Accountant @BATMAN @PakSword @WebMaster
> @ghazi52 @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Mangus Ortus Novem @Zaki @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Jungibaaz @Manticore @Chak Bamu @Emmie @blain2 @Adios Amigo @RazPaK @LoveIcon @Secur @S.U.R.B. @Abu Naser @waz @ZYXW @Umair Nawaz @Slav Defence @slapshot @Devil Soul @Zarvan @Pakistani Shaheen @raptor22 @Multani @Armstrong @rockstar08 @Jaanbaz @Aether @Informant @Marshmallow @qamar1990 @Pboy @liontk @Raja.Pakistani @Rajput_Pakistani @PWFI @Pukhtoon @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Patriots @Pakistanisage @Mirzay @Mugwop @Durrak @A.Rafay @p(-)0ENiX @Luftwaffe @Men in Green @Mani2020 @Leader @KingMamba @Jazzbot @JonAsad @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @HRK @Hyperion @gentalman @Fulcrum15 @farhanalee7 @dexter @Developereo @Darth Vader @Desert Fox @Crypto@Cheetah786 @chauvunist @cb4 @Bratva @balixd @batmannow @BATMAN @AUz @Areesh @Al Bhatti @air marshal @Proudpakistaniguy @DESERT FIGHTER
> @Syed.Ali.Haider aka @VCheng @Slav Defence @MOHSENAM @Malghani @Moonlight @RescueRanger @WAJsal @Foxtrot Alpha @Horus @Sugarcane @Jango


Indian students are working on manufacturing 20k ventilators. I hope we can do something.



Indus Pakistan said:


> My sentiments exactly. Here in UK Prime Minister Johnson apealled yesterday for increased production of ventilators. Today dozens of people have answered the call. from F1 Mclaren racing team to hoover/vacuam manufactuers to small companies. Figures like 2,000 ventilators a day are now about to be hit. That means within weeks the country will have 10,000s of ventilators. All this is possible because even within a small country like UK they have the* men *[women] in large numbers who have the* education*, *knowledge* and* skills* to at a drop of the hat make ventilators in huge numbers. All this points to quality* manpower* within the country produced by a quality secular, secular education.
> 
> Now compare Pakistan. A country with four times greater population. So we have huge manpower. But what fcukin good are they? Besides giving fatwas, religious mumbo jumbo, million Quran hafiz, ten million madaris graduates, heap load of bullshat. Right no no fcukin dail a mullah or any mullah can help. Science, modern engineering and skills that are cornerstone of secular West and athiest China is what going to save the world.
> 
> If only our people realised this and began to re-configure Pakistan society toward the future so in a generation we too have a modern society.


China can't provide alot of them so quickly


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## Indus Pakistan

Ace of Spades said:


> I can tell you by experience that Pakistani students and professionals are one of the best


I agree. But as a country we are almost at the bottom in terms of literacy, scientific output and industrial capacity. Somewhere below India/Bangla and Sub Saharah Africans. This is blunt reality.

The blame goes to generations of political elite that has by design *under invested* in modern education [you can see how Bangla has overtaken us] and *over inflated *religion in public life so as to keep the poor masses sedate while they raped the country.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Indus Pakistan said:


> My sentiments exactly. Here in UK Prime Minister Johnson apealled yesterday for increased production of ventilators. Today dozens of people have answered the call. from F1 Mclaren racing team to hoover/vacuam manufactuers to small companies. Figures like 2,000 ventilators a day are now about to be hit. That means within weeks the country will have 10,000s of ventilators. All this is possible because even within a small country like UK they have the* men *[women] in large numbers who have the* education*, *knowledge* and* skills* to at a drop of the hat make ventilators in huge numbers. All this points to quality* manpower* within the country produced by a quality secular, secular education.
> 
> Now compare Pakistan. A country with four times greater population. So we have huge manpower. But what fcukin good are they? Besides giving fatwas, religious mumbo jumbo, million Quran hafiz, ten million madaris graduates, heap load of bullshat. Right no no fcukin dail a mullah or any mullah can help. Science, modern engineering and skills that are cornerstone of secular West and athiest China is what going to save the world.
> 
> If only our people realised this and began to re-configure Pakistan society toward the future so in a generation we too have a modern society.








Post of the YEAR!..................I'm loving it!.........."Dial a Mullah!"............

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## Verve

@Ace of Spades 

How is Oxygen supplied in Pakistan? Via cylinders?

What about air? Cylinders as well or the filtration and compression is done in proper ventilators itself?


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## Indus Pakistan

What our ruling elite forgot or chose to forgot in their quest to rape the country [they needed to masses to be sedate sheep and religion did the trick] is that the real power, strength, might of a country is a educated population. No tanks, fighters, mullahs, madaris can match a highly educated, scientific people. Try take on tiny Israel and you will see. What makes USA a superpower? What is leading China to the top?

A highly literate, secular educated people.



Brass Knuckles said:


> Due to this large population per capital investment is low


Had Pakistan invested massively in 1960s in *education *and *birth control* by now it would be another South Korea and population growth would have stabilized.##

Instead this bunch got to call the shots over vast majority of Pakistanis.

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## Verve

Indus Pakistan said:


> What our ruling elite forgot or chose to forgot in their quest to rape the country [they needed to masses to be sedate sheep and religion did the trick] is that the real power, strength, might of a country is a educated population. No tanks, fighters, mullahs, madaris can match a highly educated, scientific people. Try take on tiny Israel and you will see. What makes USA a superpower? What is leading China to the top?
> 
> A highly literate, secular educated people.
> 
> Had Pakistan invested massively in 1960s in *education *and *birth control* by now it would be another South Korea and population growth would have stabilized.##
> 
> Instead this bunch got to call the shots over vast majority of Pakistanis.



Please take this line of posts elsewhere! Many other threads ...

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## Indus Pakistan

Verve said:


> Please take this line of posts elsewhere!


No I won't. It';s okay for you and me to sitr and enjoy the fruits of a modern, secular, western country including it's health service. But my thoughts for millions of possible victims in Pakistan. You might be able to dial 999 and get help. What will a poor villager in Pakistan do? Call 'dial a mullah'?

All I want is the fruits I and you enjoy in UK to be also available to my people in Pakistan.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Indus Pakistan said:


> What our ruling elite forgot or chose to forgot in their quest to rape the country [they needed to masses to be sedate sheep and religion did the trick] is that the real power, strength, might of a country is a educated population. No tanks, fighters, mullahs, madaris can match a highly educated, scientific people. Try take on tiny Israel and you will see. What makes USA a superpower? What is leading China to the top?
> 
> A highly literate, secular educated people.
> 
> Had Pakistan invested massively in 1960s in *education *and *birth control* by now it would be another South Korea and population growth would have stabilized.##
> 
> Instead this bunch got to call the shots over vast majority of Pakistanis.










That begs another question. Why do Mullahs and religious extremists all seem to have a low IQ?

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## Indus Pakistan

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> That begs another question. Why do Mullahs and religious extremists all seem to have a low IQ?


For the same reason shit attracts flies.

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## StormBreaker

Indus Pakistan said:


> My sentiments exactly. Here in UK Prime Minister Johnson apealled yesterday for increased production of ventilators. Today dozens of people have answered the call. from F1 Mclaren racing team to hoover/vacuam manufactuers to small companies. Figures like 2,000 ventilators a day are now about to be hit. That means within weeks the country will have 10,000s of ventilators. All this is possible because even within a small country like UK they have the* men *[women] in large numbers who have the* education*, *knowledge* and* skills* to at a drop of the hat make ventilators in huge numbers. All this points to quality* manpower* within the country produced by a quality secular, secular education.
> 
> Now compare Pakistan. A country with four times greater population. So we have huge manpower. But what fcukin good are they? Besides giving fatwas, religious mumbo jumbo, million Quran hafiz, ten million madaris graduates, heap load of bullshat. Right no no fcukin dail a mullah or any mullah can help. Science, modern engineering and skills that are cornerstone of secular West and athiest China is what going to save the world.
> 
> If only our people realised this and began to re-configure Pakistan society toward the future so in a generation we too have a modern society.


To some extent agreed, about the quality manpower thing, lack of Productive education (wtf is secular education? Is that even a thing).

But, you are clearly expressing your sort of inner hate for the religious elements present in the country. Yes, they are not much productive for the economy but can’t we say the same for others as well ? 

WTH are local galli muhalla schools teaching kids in school ? 
Ghalib ki shayari ? 
Basic Sciences with ratta-fication and no critical thinking questions with case studies and practicals ???
As for the so called “eLItE scHOolS” like BeaconHouse/Roots millenium, are they any better ? With all the huge fees, They hose international universities marketing agencies for persuading students to go abroad for studies which in turn leads to loss of to some extent “Quality Minds” who then settle abroad... Those here, very few, Either don’t get chance to shine due to f’ed up infrastructure and resources or become the International agents hosting stupid activities like “Aurat March” or Anti Khatme Nabuwat which in turn is purely intentional to cause riots...

Are they any better than madrassas which are steering kids only towards Religion? While Prophet Muhammad SA himself was a trader and insisted worldly activities as well to survive in this life...

Talk sense but with quality... Don’t indulge in hate as you are clearly one of the haters i have seen here, be it racial or These sorts of things...

We lack quality education, Reason ?
Professors and teachers want wages, not inspired to raise shining students. Universities and schools are just money making machines, use torrented softwares, Least productive extracurricular activities which gives you some real life lessons unlike the stupid concerts and dramas....

HEC is also shit, With the same ratta concept from Intermediating, Having stupid syllabuses in universities.

What can you expect from such a country ?
Vaccines ? Inventions ? Innovation ?

Naah, just the usual “Gas se petrol kaise banaye hain with mountain dew ki half cut bottle”....

As for the government, Private organizations, No professional attitude in terms of science and tech, No professional approach and uniforms/use of safety equipments, Lack of appropriate equipments, Jugaarhbaazi, Production of an invented wheel, no re-invention of the wheel to go some different route and discover new things...

@jaibi @Mangus Ortus Novem @SIPRA @Verve @Dubious @HRK @aliyusuf

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## V. Makarov

I dont think we will be needing (or should) make local substandard ventilators. This is because the number of ventilators required are in the thousands. If you are to make such a large number then why not make it according to international standards the first time?

All we have to do is wait for the Chinese to settle down a bit. Then they will be manufacturing Lacks of ventilators per day. Hope they ramp up their production really soon. Pakistan does not even have a single assembly line that can make medical equipment according to a source. So yeah...Lets wait for the Chinese once again.

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## BATMAN

Weldone, unfortunately regime is not serious.
All world is importing ventilators. Except Pakistan, this shows the seriousness of regime.


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## V. Makarov

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> That begs another question. Why do Mullahs and religious extremists all seem to have a low IQ?



"If you dont educate the smartest kid in the village, he will work the field with the dumbest"

There are many smart and humble "mullahs" that I have met in my life. Some even made it to top academic institutes after getting their education in madressahs. The problem is that only the people with lowest IQ are left with the job of commenting on religion as they cannot integrate into the society.

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## Indus Pakistan

StormBreaker said:


> secular education


Education sans religion. How do you think the West defeated the east? While the east was chasing the *hereafter* they got on the hereto. The secular as opposed to the spiritual/temporal.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Indus Pakistan said:


> Education sans religion. How do you think the West defeated the east? While the east was chasing the *hereafter* they got on the hereto. The secular as opposed to the spiritual/temporal.





Unfortunately our lot are still chasing the hereafter. Forget about Poor Pakistanis in Pakistan, look at the UK Pakistanis who join hizb-ut-tahrir...........

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## StormBreaker

Indus Pakistan said:


> Education sans religion.


I don’t see how if i were an engineer, 4 books of religion would prevent me from inventing an electric car... Just a fear inside you and your type... 

Wisest are those that gain all the knowledge they can, but use it wisely and productively.

I for example, Have nothing to do with military, But here I am, seeking knowledge to some average level, every post, gives me something new to learn, Be it military, aviation, Technologies, Economy, Law, Religion and Geography. That is my utter thirst for knowledge, just to fulfill my aim of being someone with immense knowledge someday and that I might be helpful to others. I don’t want money or any favor from knowledge but self satisfaction and Broad Mind in terms of education...

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## masterchief_mirza

Indus Pakistan said:


> What our ruling elite forgot or chose to forgot in their quest to rape the country [they needed to masses to be sedate sheep and religion did the trick] is that the real power, strength, might of a country is a educated population. No tanks, fighters, mullahs, madaris can match a highly educated, scientific people. Try take on tiny Israel and you will see. What makes USA a superpower? What is leading China to the top?
> 
> A highly literate, secular educated people.
> 
> Had Pakistan invested massively in 1960s in *education *and *birth control* by now it would be another South Korea and population growth would have stabilized.##
> 
> Instead this bunch got to call the shots over vast majority of Pakistanis.


You're nailing it.

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## Indus Pakistan

V. Makarov said:


> Pakistan does not even have a single assembly line that can make medical equipment according to a source


Not to worry we got plenty of production lines making these ...

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## Myth_buster_1

Indus Pakistan said:


> My sentiments exactly. Here in UK Prime Minister Johnson apealled yesterday for increased production of ventilators. Today dozens of people have answered the call. from F1 Mclaren racing team to hoover/vacuam manufactuers to small companies. Figures like 2,000 ventilators a day are now about to be hit. That means within weeks the country will have 10,000s of ventilators. All this is possible because even within a small country like UK they have the* men *[women] in large numbers who have the* education*, *knowledge* and* skills* to at a drop of the hat make ventilators in huge numbers. All this points to quality* manpower* within the country produced by a quality secular, secular education.
> 
> Now compare Pakistan. A country with four times greater population. So we have huge manpower. But what fcukin good are they? Besides giving fatwas, religious mumbo jumbo, million Quran hafiz, ten million madaris graduates, heap load of bullshat. Right no no fcukin dail a mullah or any mullah can help. Science, modern engineering and skills that are cornerstone of secular West and athiest China is what going to save the world.
> 
> If only our people realised this and began to re-configure Pakistan society toward the future so in a generation we too have a modern society.



well said, 
the problem is not religion it is our people's culture which has hijacked Islam. If they practice it to its true potential, Pakistan or infact Muslim world would not be in such a mess.


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## Indus Pakistan

masterchief_mirza said:


> You're nailing it.


Do you see all the mass of illiterate Pakistani awam that are rent a mob or fodder for the next dial a mullah? They are result of Pakistan political elite policies over the last 70 years.

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## masterchief_mirza

However, it would be foolish to disregard other confounding factors that have damaged Pakistani development in certain fields. While I agree with @Indus Pakistan and his enthused commentary on the subject of the direction our educational programmes have taken, external threats, damage, sabotage and subterfuge cannot be ignored either.

In short, we're in the mess we're in because of external and internal enemies. But we knew this all along. Now we must fix it.

Threads like this are a great start.

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## Indus Pakistan

Myth_buster_1 said:


> the problem is not religion


Religion per se is not a problem. The rub in anything is the interpretation. In Pakistan religion has been hjacked by a class of ignorant people who use it for their political power.



StormBreaker said:


> I don’t see how if i were an engineer, 4 books of religion would prevent me from inventing an electric car


Have a look at Pakistan and tell me where it is? Then look at next door Afghanistan is even more religious and see where that country is. Or Saudia. Only Muslim country with advanced industry is Turkey?

Wonder why? *secular* cough !

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

What was our priority untill last few week aurat march 

Organizing masses to spread this virus to the max around the cities



Ab Aurat march kerlo , ya virus protection strategy implement ker lo
Bahi ab jao , road per ka ker demonstratin karo , mera Jism meri merzi

You can't have a *Feminist rally* and *Virus prevention strategy* at same time




Cases in China happened in December 31st
We had 60 days, to lock down air travel and prevent anyone from outside to just walk around into city without being tested



Acha nahi hota 30 days ago Prime Minister , notice de detain , public ko please store food for 30-60 days

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## StormBreaker

Indus Pakistan said:


> l
> Have a look at Pakistan and tell me where it is? Then look at next door Afghanistan is even more religious and see where that country is. Or Saudia. Only Muslim country with advanced industry is Turkey?
> 
> Wonder why? *secular* cough !


Hey,

Give me your ears, Come closer

“How about, i tell you a little secret ?”

Turkey ? Exposure to European education and technology as well as political Alliance on Big level with the Educated countries.

Iran ? Has a strong base of scientists but no exposure... Hijacked by a regime and facing sanctions

KSA ? Doesn’t need scientists as it uses money to buy things directly... 

Now here is the secret you wanted to hear. Religion is a tool of politics, A really effective tool. You can create Alliances and riots using this card, You can shape a community or destroy a community using this same card. You can educate masses or make them worse using this same card.

It all comes down to interpretation and exploitation of masses using it. 

Pakistan ? This element has existed in Pakistan but on an insignificant level. Forget the maddrasa population of this country which doesn’t even make of 3% of Legit Pak Nationals. What other 97% has done ? What have you done except for discussing here on PDF ? Or me ? Nothing more than them but nothing bad either...

You are hell bent on ignoring several other significant and most responsible factors such as Government policies towards education, Investment on Education, Institutes, Quality Teachers and Extremely strict rules, Budget to Promote Events for innovation, to award those that come up with new things and researches.

This is what has affected us the most, not some small madrassas that have given you nightmares...

PMIK when came into Seat, Said that “Hum madaris ko HEC ke under laenge, wahan education promote karenge”, No fu*ng step taken yet. This is the problem of Pakistan. Corrupt government bunch with the worst ever bureaucrats...



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> What was our priority untill last few week aurat march
> 
> Organizing masses to spread this virus to the max around the cities
> 
> 
> 
> Ab Aurat march kerlo , ya virus protection strategy implement ker lo


And then some people close one eye and see madrassas only...

Agreed...

These stupid elements which use either religion or secular cards to keep the masses involved into non productive, Riot-ic activities should have been dealt with heavy hands but when these same hands are carrying heavy cash bags, What can you expect ?

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## StormBreaker

Brass Knuckles said:


> Aik din main sab kuch nhi hojata time ka sath hojaye ga ab kar rhay hain
> 
> For building a ventilator you don't need to invest in education. You need ventilator making factories mtlab you need capital skilled labor bhi mil Jaye gi capital ho to


Not referring to ventilators, in general, A Tech industry in Pak by freshers and experienced professionals...

As for the Madaris, HEC and PMIK, We should have heard at least a word by now but not even a minor update on this prospect. It’s not an easy job to do, I Agree. These madaris owners, Many are quite ignorant and arrogant or some are linked to groups while others recieve fundings from elsewhere. Not easy to get them all on board but DANDA is always an option...

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## StormBreaker

Brass Knuckles said:


> He is building skill centres for madrassh students. And a lot of madrassh students also study in school they get admission in madrasah after primary education and after becoming hafiz take admission in class 8.


I Pray for this to result positively

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## Kabotar

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/61...estone-in-educational-reform-process-minister



StormBreaker said:


> Not referring to ventilators, in general, A Tech industry in Pak by freshers and experienced professionals...
> 
> As for the Madaris, HEC and PMIK, We should have heard at least a word by now but not even a minor update on this prospect. It’s not an easy job to do, I Agree. These madaris owners, Many are quite ignorant and arrogant or some are linked to groups while others recieve fundings from elsewhere. Not easy to get them all on board but DANDA is always an option...


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## Yaseen1

science and technology requires huge spending in health and education sector but we have lowest budget for this,such technology cannot be achieved for free,I think it has more to do with governance than religion otherwise italy would not be seeing 800 daily deaths from corona virus as they are not Islamic nation


Indus Pakistan said:


> Pakistan needs more of these ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not these ..


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## Longhorn

Indus Pakistan said:


> No I won't. It';s okay for you and me to sitr and enjoy the fruits of a modern, secular, western country including it's health service. But my thoughts for millions of possible victims in Pakistan. You might be able to dial 999 and get help. What will a poor villager in Pakistan do? Call 'dial a mullah'?
> 
> All I want is the fruits I and you enjoy in UK to be also available to my people in Pakistan.


I can feel the pain in your posts.
You and I know that nothing is going to change.
Change requires a change of thinking and values. We are not prepared to undergo that change. The opium that the masses are brought up on from birth has Pakistan in a stranglehold. 

Ab yahan koi nahin, koi nahin aayega.

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## Dark1

Well this thread degenerated fast from the intent. Peumatics and hydraulics is my line ,industrial though, so here goes .
I just read about the function of a respirator and its workings.
From the 50s it was a mechanical device and pressures were set manually, but mechanical items have a problem with fixed flow and response time. Suppose their was a blockage, the pressure would still be reached ,though flow would be reduced to the lungs. Not good for lungs.
In the 70s it seems flow control was started in place of fixed pressure.
So if a fixed flow was set, the pressure was not controlled. Which would result in overpressure incase the lungs had resistance for any reason and the flow was not controlled at end of cycle.
Now with microprocessor control , the flow at end of cycle can be tapered off. Also pressure transducers can now give actual lung pressure feedback and control input flow and pressure.
Now the design- 
Simple design -
Most difficult is controlling pressures at this low pressure ratings of 20 mmwc.
Material required -
1. Oxygen supply - piped or cylinder.
2. Clean air supply 
3. Flow control valves for both o2 and air
4. Pressure relief valves for both
5. Direction control valves for both
6. Exhaust valves 
7. Tubing
8. Plc for switching cycle from inspiration to expiration. 
It's not a complex equipment but it's a medical equipment. 
Going back to fixed flows. 

I propose pressure relief valves in place of pressure reducing valves. 
Relief valves release over pressure, while reducing valves, reduce input pressures.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Life critical devices have to pass massive security checks and approvals , it is not a Honda civic you make a make shift part and install it


This is not time for inventions
This is not time for experimentation
This is not time for high fives for University projects


This is time for , take the check book out , and order 5,000 ventilators from China
and 100,000 masks from China

Set up a emergency camp / Hospital outside the City , to collect patients outside the city zone and ensure the people are transported out to open areas


Beds - 5,000 beds 
Fans
AC
Electricity Supply 
Water / Sanitation Supply 

These are just logistical stuff can be done with man power


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## Dark1

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Life critical devices have to pass massive security checks and approvals , it is not a Honda civic you make a make shift part and install it
> 
> 
> This is not time for inventions
> This is not time for experimentation
> This is not time for high fives for University projects
> 
> 
> This is time for , take the check book out , and order 5,000 ventilators from China
> and 100,000 masks from China
> 
> Set up a emergency camp / Hospital outside the City , to collect patients outside the city zone and ensure the people are transported out to open areas
> 
> 
> Beds - 5,000 beds
> Fans
> AC
> Electricity Supply
> Water / Sanitation Supply
> 
> These are just logistical stuff can be done with man power


Chinese ventilator manufacturers are dependent on european and American suppliers for some parts like turbines etc.


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## Pandora

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Just import from China , now is not time to invent shit the water has gone over the head as they say
> 
> 
> Time to import ambulances
> Get transport helicopters
> Transport trucks
> Fix logistical issues
> 
> All that time has passed unfortunately
> 
> The best approach is to stay at home .... eat conservatively
> 
> Planning is done 4-5 years or 20 years in advance
> 
> 
> The level of awareness is low in Pakistan the best thing to do is run advertisement on TV
> 24/7 to ask people to stay inside their homes and avoid unnecessary travel
> 
> 
> 
> Coronavirus Special Quarantine centers should be setup outside the city




On the contrary this is exactly the time for innovation and development at local level. Through such crisis countries have risen stronger than before not bcz they imported the shit out of it but rather developed and researched indigenous solutions. We need local capabilities to tackle this virus bcz when $hit will hit fan then no one will be coming to your aid. Contrary to popular belief we are in honeymoon period of this virus and it will get much much much worse.


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## CrazyZ

Many off the shelf hospital equipment is more complicated and expensive than it needs to be. I'm not sure if ventilators can be simplified to lower the costs and speed up the production but I recall a story a few years ago where a start up firm determined that most premature babies could be saved by simple heated blankets. This saved many premature babies in poorer countries where hospital level incubators was not available.


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## sparten

This is a very stupid thread. A Ventilator is a pump and some tubing. Its not the damn Apollo spacecraft. Yes bells and whistles of modern ventilators are complicated to make, but the device is nearly a century old on the concept.
We have plenty of pump makers in the country and motor makers who could make something which would be good enough for present purposes.


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## ziaulislam

Ace of Spades said:


> I am creating this thread to discuss the idea, designs and potential way to produce low cost ventilators in Pakistan. In Pakistan there are only 2000-ish ventilators, which are not enough for current epidemic. And i am afraid masses will die because of lack of ventilators.
> 
> In its simplest form, a modern positive pressure ventilator consists of a compressible air reservoir or turbine, air and oxygen supplies, a set of valves and tubes, and a disposable or reusable "patient circuit". The air reservoir is pneumatically compressed several times a minute to deliver room-air, or in most cases, an air/oxygen mixture to the patient. If a turbine is used, the turbine pushes air through the ventilator, with a flow valve adjusting pressure to meet patient-specific parameters. When over pressure is released, the patient will exhale passively due to the lungs' elasticity, the exhaled air being released usually through a one-way valve within the patient circuit called the patient manifold. Ventilators may also be equipped with monitoring and alarm systems for patient-related parameters (e.g. pressure, volume, and flow) and ventilator function (e.g. air leakage, power failure, mechanical failure), backup batteries, oxygen tanks, and remote control. The pneumatic system is nowadays often replaced by a computer-controlled turbopump.
> 
> If any of you guys have design experience, electrical/ mechanical/ programming engineering knowledge please chip in and help design low cost/ indigenous project. You can contribute to save lives. I am sharing some design ideas and a research paper for reference. It would be great to work on a design through which a ventilator can be produced via locally available materials for prototyping and eventually mass production. Also, for computing and software processing preferably if a smartphone can be integrated otherwise arduino, raspberry pi based ideas will be great.
> 
> https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://blog.arduino.cc/2020/03/17/designing-a-low-cost-open-source-ventilator-with-arduino/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If windsheild wipper motors can be integrated via some gears, it's easy to find, cheap and can be integrated for mechanical part.
> 
> 
> 
> @waz @Major Sam @Dubious @The Eagle @Indus Pakistan @Slav Defence @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Hakikat ve Hikmet @jaibi @The Accountant @BATMAN @PakSword @WebMaster
> @ghazi52 @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Mangus Ortus Novem @Zaki @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Jungibaaz @Manticore @Chak Bamu @Emmie @blain2 @Adios Amigo @RazPaK @LoveIcon @Secur @S.U.R.B. @Abu Naser @waz @ZYXW @Umair Nawaz @Slav Defence @slapshot @Devil Soul @Zarvan @Pakistani Shaheen @raptor22 @Multani @Armstrong @rockstar08 @Jaanbaz @Aether @Informant @Marshmallow @qamar1990 @Pboy @liontk @Raja.Pakistani @Rajput_Pakistani @PWFI @Pukhtoon @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @Patriots @Pakistanisage @Mirzay @Mugwop @Durrak @A.Rafay @p(-)0ENiX @Luftwaffe @Men in Green @Mani2020 @Leader @KingMamba @Jazzbot @JonAsad @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @HRK @Hyperion @gentalman @Fulcrum15 @farhanalee7 @dexter @Developereo @Darth Vader @Desert Fox @Crypto@Cheetah786 @chauvunist @cb4 @Bratva @balixd @batmannow @BATMAN @AUz @Areesh @Al Bhatti @air marshal @Proudpakistaniguy @DESERT FIGHTER
> @Syed.Ali.Haider aka @VCheng @Slav Defence @MOHSENAM @Malghani @Moonlight @RescueRanger @WAJsal @Foxtrot Alpha @Horus @Sugarcane @Jango


You are right vent can be made very cheap after all its a simple air pump

But even state of the art vent costs around 1 crore which is nothing..so pakistan only has 700 vents i.e 70 b rupees worth of vent. That is less than cost over run of islamabad airport.???

So is cost the issue ??? Ofcourse not..

Its lack of will from doctors training and even trained doctors to run the vents...

PS
Modern vent are comolex though..a BiVent, pressure support volume hybrids are not easy to manufacture though this function can be sacrificed..

The vent wount save u if u r sick u would need ECMOs



Indus Pakistan said:


> I agree. But as a country we are almost at the bottom in terms of literacy, scientific output and industrial capacity. Somewhere below India/Bangla and Sub Saharah Africans. This is blunt reality.
> 
> The blame goes to generations of political elite that has by design *under invested* in modern education [you can see how Bangla has overtaken us] and *over inflated *religion in public life so as to keep the poor masses sedate while they raped the country.


This happened when govt & PEOPLE in mid 2000s decides to run country like dubai rather than china
i.e trade hub rather than manufacturing

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## CrazyZ

Older style negative pressure ventilator. Looks like a balloon around your chest. Don't need a touch screen. On Off switch is fine.


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## ziaulislam

CrazyZ said:


> Older style negative pressure ventilator. Looks like a balloon around your chest. Don't need a touch screen. On Off switch is fine.


This wont work..we arent dealing with paralysis but hypoxia



sparten said:


> This is a very stupid thread. A Ventilator is a pump and some tubing. Its not the damn Apollo spacecraft. Yes bells and whistles of modern ventilators are complicated to make, but the device is nearly a century old on the concept.
> We have plenty of pump makers in the country and motor makers who could make something which would be good enough for present purposes.


Car engine is 100 years old
Can we make one?
Sure?
Do we
Nope

On topics these bells and whistles might save your life in need..bivents, PRVC are needed when time is critical


But something is better than nothing(no vents) so i vote with you 

Hey even simple ambo bag is missing that can save you

I mean this

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## sparten

ziaulislam said:


> Car engine is 100 years old
> Can we make one?
> Sure?
> Do we
> Nope


Since that’s not economically feasible in normal times. These...are not normal times.


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## ziaulislam

Ambu bag attached are used in third world with family alternating to give 6 breaths per minute..
We dont have those in hospital 

We just say fateh and let u die



sparten said:


> Since that’s not economically feasible in normal times. These...are not normal times.


Money isnt the problem
2000 state of the art vent will Only cost 20 billion rupee.. 
Thats less than BMWs bought in last 5 yrs

PS
we only have 700 vent in pakistan
Just 65 in KPK

Oh..and docs arent trained in pakistan to run vents..so when u buying them do scratch your head..

You need ECMOs..in addition to vents

If u really need to save people

And cheap chinese vents

I just you can buy from alibaba for 1000$ 
I.e 1 lac 
So 100 will cost 1 crore and 10,000 will cost 1 billion

Guess how much money we wasted on circular debt or an expensive LNG deal?

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## ziaulislam

So u see issue isnt cost or manufacturing ..its something sinister and deep

Its govt and people insensitively towards health care..docs insensitively ..people insensitivity and govt insensitivity 

The summary is ..when you are sick you will neither get an ambulance or money (if u beg) but when u die you will get both..someone will pay for it..

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## halupridol

ziaulislam said:


> You are right vent can be made very cheap after all its a simple air pump
> 
> But even state of the art vent costs around 1 crore which is nothing..so pakistan only has 700 vents i.e 70 b rupees worth of vent. That is less than cost over run of islamabad airport.???
> 
> So is cost the issue ??? Ofcourse not..
> 
> Its lack of will from doctors training and even trained doctors to run the vents...


What is this doc insensitivity(lack of will frm doctors),u r talking about?


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## CrazyZ

*LunaBelt* is the portable pressometric and volumetric ventilator that focuses on the essential, combining the latest technological innovations with a straightforward, easy-to-usefunctionality.





*LunaBelt* is designed for hospital and home care. Small, light and portable, it offers multiple ventilation modes IV and NIV, in volume and pressure, the last can be combined with the desired target volume.

It is the only ventilator on the market able to perform the IPPV (intermittent abdominal pressure ventilation) ventilation technique, through a dedicated software and the *PBAir®* interface. IAPV ventilation promotes extra-thoracic NIV ventilation, using no masks, reducing the risk of facial decubitus and improving the life quality of patients.





APPLICATIONS


IAPV (intermitent abdominal pressure ventilation)
IV (invasive ventilation)
NIV (non-invasive ventilation)
MPV (mouthpiece ventilation)
BATTERIA INTERNA LI-PO
The use of *PBAir®* in synergy with the IAPV software on the Luna device allows lung ventilation of patients with muscle weakness and diaphragmatic paralysis, conditions present in all neuromuscular pathologies.


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## ziaulislam

halupridol said:


> What is this doc insensitivity(lack of will frm doctors),u r talking about?


Pretty much..noone wants to take care of patients or imporve health care or lobby for health care or do honest timing

Everyone wants to make money


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## halupridol

ziaulislam said:


> Pretty much..noone wants to take care of patients or imporve health care or lobby for health care or do honest timing
> 
> Everyone wants to make money


i understand some doctors r to be blamed,,But isnt that how it is in each field now??
Puri society ne kiya toh koi nahi,,,kuch doctoro ne kiya toh haram.
What is the price of sanitizer and mask in Pakistan now?
Here 5rs mask is being sold for 20.
200 santizer is being sold at500+.
Hoarding is on full force.lekin in sab se kisine kuch lena dena nahi hai.
Yahi bussiness hai bolenge.
Heck,,,during summer gacations hotels n flights increase fairs,even AC tecnician charges more.
Why becoz its call business sense,,,i.e to make money at opportune moment.
I dont know about Pakistan but in India doctors are mere service providers,,,and are prosecutable unders consumer court,,,,which basically deals with disputes between businesses and customers.
So,,since law already deems us to be businessmen,,,why can we too not make profits at opportune times,,like all other businesses,,,but how many doctors do u think have increased thr fees during epidemics n such.(real doctors not jholachaps)
Can we exect even half of tht from other businessmen??

N how does it relate to miniscule number of ventilators?
Ventillator nahi hai,,doctor bura hai,,oxygen nahi hai,,doctor bura hai,,dawai nahi hai,,usme bhi doctor.
Yani health system me kisi bhi kharabi ka jimmedar doctor hai.
Some time ago On this forum,,even a lab tech student was berating pakistani docotrs,,,saying only the thirdclass types remain in Pakistan while the gud ones leave.This coming from a student studying to be a laboratory technician.
How many Anaesthesiologist/intensivists are produced from Pakistan medical colleges each year,,who controls tht number?how much does Pakistan spend on health care?
70yrs of ignorance n apathy,,,ab pyaas lagi toh kua khodne chale,,waah.
I thougt u urself were a medical professional,,with an impending disaster looming,,,i think its best to not project any negativity towards health professionals.

In coming days,,it is quite possible tht many doctors n nurses will have to face violence frm patient attendents.
I wish them all the best.


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## Indus Pakistan

Longhorn said:


> I can feel the pain in your posts.
> You and I know that nothing is going to change.
> Change requires a change of thinking and values. We are not prepared to undergo that change. The opium that the masses are brought up on from birth has Pakistan in a stranglehold.


The sad fact is, your 100% right.

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## Ace of Spades

halupridol said:


> 70yrs of ignorance n apathy,,,ab pyaas lagi toh kua khodne chale,



That's the reality you are talking about, this had to be done by governments in both countries; wasn't done, never was/is a priority. We, the people, aren't that insensitive towards our fellow citizens. At-least will take up the voice. Dubta ko tinka ka sahara is the situation for the ones who know what's coming and they are trying to get hold of a tinka.


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## halupridol

Ace of Spades said:


> That's the reality you are talking about, this had to be done by governments in both countries; wasn't done, never was/is a priority. *We, the people, aren't that insensitive towards our fellow citizens.
> At-least will take up the voice. Dubta ko tinka ka sahara is the situation for the ones who know what's coming and they are trying to get hold of a tinka.*


Dont make me laugh,,,,it seems u r out of touch with reality.u forget the basic fact tht Pakistan like India is a majority bhayya country,,with a handicap like tht,,yes hope is all we have.
Keep urself n ur family safe,,,,when the disease spikes,,,the deaths may lead to mass hysteria n a law n order situation,,,prepare for that.


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## Ace of Spades

halupridol said:


> India is a majority bhayya countr



And what's that?


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## VCheng

Ace of Spades said:


> I am creating this thread to discuss the idea, designs and potential way to produce low cost ventilators in Pakistan. In Pakistan there are only 2000-ish ventilators, which are not enough for current epidemic. And i am afraid masses will die because of lack of ventilators.



Given the situation, I can only be brief due to being on hiatus: The limiting factor will likely not be the ventilators themselves, but the facilities and expertise to use them effectively.


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## Kabotar

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242029170701537280

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## Mr.Green

https://www.express.co.uk/news/scie...rs-COVID-19-treatment-latest-coronavirus-news

one ventilator for two - new device


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## Mr.Green

mr.green said:


>


Anesthesia machines can also be used as ventilators

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## sparten

A bicycle pump attached to a tube will also work, in theory.

3-D printed Ventilator might be ready in two weeks.
https://www.geo.tv/latest/278746-th...e-in-pakistan-could-be-ready-within-two-weeks

This is the same company that made Pakistans first domestically manufactured 3D printer.

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## Yaseen1



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## Mr.Green

http://ventilate.life/?fbclid=IwAR3y1a96dbtrb_TtvyKT5lMmOLQNefgeu0c-X4moUKR8TeSBSJNom2sfkO0


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## Kabotar

Startup begins working on production of low-cost ventilators

A local startup that has invented a low-cost ventilator will start working on its mass production within a few days amid the spread of Covid-19 in the country.

[https://i-dawn-com]

Wajahat Ali, who is co-founder of Ventilate along with Dr Mujeeb Ur Rehman and Saad Pasha, said that the company was looking to work with the civil sector as well to increase production.

He added that the company's business model was to provide the ventilators on a no-profit-no-loss basis to the public sector.

https://www-dawn-com.cdn.ampproject...$s&ampshare=https://www.dawn.com/news/1543668

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## Ace of Spades



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## Dr. Strangelove

mr.green said:


> Anesthesia machines can also be used as ventilators


While they can be Used this way but just like Ventilators we dont have that many to begin with. And what we have are always in use in Operation theaters and we cant just shut down Operation theaters.

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## Fawadqasim1



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## Longhorn

Fawadqasim1 said:


>


Well done. 
Good lad.

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## PakSword

Fawadqasim1 said:


>


Very good. But industrial production is not that simple.

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## masterchief_mirza

That's a bloody good ventilator Jim. 

Is zafar mirza sahib watching this??



PakSword said:


> Very good. But industrial production is not that simple.


What's stopping industrial production of this? Cost is like under 1000$ according to the video.

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## PakSword

masterchief_mirza said:


> That's a bloody good ventilator Jim.
> 
> Is zafar mirza sahib watching this??
> 
> 
> What's stopping industrial production of this? Cost is like under 1000$ according to the video.


Yaar setting up a plant for mass production in a short time is an astronomical job. 

Government can do it, but I don't know if there's a will as of now.

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## masterchief_mirza

PakSword said:


> Yaar setting up a plant for mass production in a short time is an astronomical job.
> 
> Government can do it, but I don't know if there's a will as of now.


Reconfigure available electronics plants or any place that makes air conditioners.

In UK, vacuum cleaner producers and motorsports engineering centres are being reworked for ventilators. 

Any such options in Pakistan? 

This guy's design is not that complex looking to my non-engineering eye.

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## PakSword

masterchief_mirza said:


> Reconfigure available electronics plants or any place that makes air conditioners.
> 
> In UK, vacuum cleaner producers and motorsports engineering centres are being reworked for ventilators.
> 
> Any such options in Pakistan?
> 
> This guy's design is not that complex looking to my non-engineering eye.


As I said, there's no instruction /requirement coming from the government. Either the government doesn't trust local talent or whatever.

Machine tool factory in Karachi could've taken up the job, but it closed its operations in the last government. 

Maybe, ordinance factory can take it up. 

From private industries, I have no expectation.

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## Dr. Strangelove

PakSword said:


> Government can do it, but I don't know if there's a will as of now.


They have given a time frame of one month lets see what they bring to the table.

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## Fawadqasim1

PakSword said:


> Very good. But industrial production is not that simple.


I know but it's pretty simple and straightforward our automobile industry can manage it within a month if they get creative.

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## PakSword

Dr. Strangelove said:


> They have given a time frame of one month lets see what they bring to the table.


One month for what?

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## Dr. Strangelove

PakSword said:


> One month for what?


Local Ventilators.

https://arynews.tv/en/coronavirus-ventilators-testing-kits-fawad-chaudhry/

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

PakSword said:


> Very good. But industrial production is not that simple.


its not that difficult. It can be done in a simple workshop after sourcing parts from a different vendors. The automobile sector can definitely help considering some companies have a flexible manufacturing system.

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## Fawadqasim1

PakSword said:


> Yaar setting up a plant for mass production in a short time is an astronomical job.
> 
> Government can do it, but I don't know if there's a will as of now.


You don't setup a new plant you repurpose a part of 
Your existing facility for such a simple design it requires a bit of ingenuity though ?

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## PakSword

Fawadqasim1 said:


> You don't setup a new plant you repurpose a part of
> Your existing facility for such a simple design it requires a bit of ingenuity though ?


It will require some sort of testing and certification.. I don't know how much time it will take.

Then the workforce will require training in producing this critical instrument beside reconfiguring the existing equipment to make the ventilators from scratch in a short period of time.

The rate of spread in Pakistan suggests that time is not with us. If 3% patients require ventilation support, in a couple of weeks time, we will be requiring many many ventilators to support patients. However, there's no harm in initiating the project.. If the product gets certification from Engineering council and Pakistan Medical Council, we may export the product to other countries where the disease has just started to spread.

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## Fawadqasim1

PakSword said:


> It will require some sort of testing and certification.. I don't know how much time it will take.
> 
> Then the workforce will require training in producing this critical instrument beside reconfiguring the existing equipment to make the ventilators from scratch in a short period of time.
> 
> The rate of spread in Pakistan suggests that time is not with us. If 3% patients require ventilation support, in a couple of weeks time, we will be requiring many many ventilators to support patients. However, there's no harm in initiating the project.. If the product gets certification from Engineering council and Pakistan Medical Council, we may export the product to other countries where the disease has just started to spread.


God forbid you can be right but the design looks like an Ak 47's so I am keeping my fingers crossed for the best.


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## PakSword

Fawadqasim1 said:


> God forbid you can be right but the design looks like an Ak 47's so I am keeping my fingers crossed for the best.


If Corona really required AK 47, our KPK alone would've fulfilled demand of the entire world.


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## -blitzkrieg-

for god sake people.. anyone going to a ventilator has hardly 20% chances to recover and get off it.

Testing! Testing! Testing!
We need testing at this point not ventilators.


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## Fawadqasim1

-blitzkrieg- said:


> for god sake people.. anyone going to a ventilator has hardly 20% chances to recover and get off it.
> 
> Testing! Testing! Testing!
> We need testing at this point not ventilators.


50% to be more correct and we are talking about God forbid thousands of human beings so


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## Mujahid Memon

PakSword said:


> Very good. But industrial production is not that simple.


This is too simple


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## dexter

This video gives a good explanation to those engineers specifically mechanical engineers to understand the basic design and concept for lost cost ventilators. Keeping in mind that most of the medical experts are busy in tackling this pandemic, so by sharing this short insight it might help engineers in their research and development for innovative ideas in designing such ventilators.

*A further explanation by a medical physicist on ventilators :*

I’m a medical physicist and we're basically responsible for bridging the gap between technology & doctors in hospitals. Most of what we do is with radiation but ventilators were a really big part of the non-ionizing equipment so i had to study ventilators a lot. Here's my explanation :

Ventilators can deliver anything from normal air to 100% oxygen, or any ratio in between, and they operate on the 4 basic variables of flow, volume, pressure, and # breaths per minute. Technology is getting more & complex and every manufacturer throws in more sensors & software features every day to get a competitive edge but everything ultimately stems from those 4 variables. The reason those 4 variables are so fundamental to ventilators is because:

- Volume determines the amount of air that gets into your lungs. the ventilator needs to pump enough air in to sustain you and it needs to know when to stop before it damages the lungs. if the lungs are screwed you can increase the oxygen but that maxes out at 100%, and if it’s still not enough then your in real trouble.

- Pressure is important because the alveoli are very thin to allow gas exchange and too much pressure will rupture them, but too little pressure will cause the alveoli to collapse and the gas exchange stops. it then requires much higher pressures to re-open them which can be damaging too. a sick lung may also be too stiff to allow enough air in and then you’re goosed (this is called low compliance).

- Flow rate is important because ventilators cannot suck air out, they can only push air in, the air must leave the lungs passively. but a sick lung may be too floppy to expel the air fast enough, this another area where you reach a wall (called high compliance) - breathing rate is closely related to the flow and if you want to increase the efficiency of the lungs flow is where you can make up time in the breathing cycle to get more breaths per minute, but an asthmatic lung may be too restrictive to accept air very fast (called high resistance).

- If you’re good at maths/physics you might know that flow is heavily related to volume as well breathing rate so you can see how changing 1 thing affects a bunch of other parameters which each have their own limits.

- The oxygen/air ratio is generally only boosted when the other variables are maxed out and still not hitting it. breathing enhanced is ok but not ideal, the body isn’t designed for it and the patient will have come back to normal air before they leave.

As for the gases dissolved in the blood :

- Ventilators usually only measure the CO2 as that changes from ~0 to 4% between inspiration & expiration.

- Oxygen is harder to measure since its present in appreciable amount at both stages so a more sensitive test would be necessary. a fancy ventilator may have a dedicated sensor for oxygen but it’s generally ok to just assumed that the difference in CO2 = difference in O2. these readings are only used for the ventilators to run on auto mode. when measuring blood oxygen levels doctors & nurses use a dedicated device called a pulse oximeter instead (clip on your finger with a red light).

- Nitrogen is not measured because it’s an inert gas. the only situation when there’s nitrogen being absorbed or released from the blood is when there’s an environmental pressure change. this is only an issue for the hyperbaric chamber which has dedicated ventilators that are totally different & specially designed for it. all the pumps & sensors are different, and even the electronics since air is far more flammable under pressure.

- Other inert gases such as helium which are similar to nitrogen.

Hope this deep-dive is explains things, also NUI Galway is the only place in Ireland that teaches a medical physics masters. so that's another area of expertise found in galway!

@Ace of Spades

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## Kabotar

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246513236423442432
Let's hope and pray we succeed.

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## Baburfromsarmarkand

Not so easy designing a ventalator. Even the Americans supposedly doing it are making ventilators that can't be used medically. Ventilators need to respond to the patient. Not just pump mechanically.


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## Philip the Arab

Pakistan can do it if Egypt can do it. Use Medtronics blueprints and information and develop a prototype and work out kinks and start mass production.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCon...roduce-prototype-of-first-locallymanufac.aspx


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ventilator Prototype PAKVENT-1 manufactured by PMO engineers brought to Combined Military Hospital (CMH) for trials. Project now being developed jointly by Pakistan Engineering Council (PEC), PMO, and Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF).

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## Balbir

*Low cost ventilator is ready in India. Pakistan can buy from India.

India's toaster-sized ventilator to help in fight against virus

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/india-toaster-sized-ventilator-fight-virus-200402090302355.html
*


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## Kabotar

Specification.

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## AsianLion

Move to: https://defence.pk/pdf/forums/covid-19-coronavirus.198/

@Adios Amigo @Arsalan @Jango @The Eagle @waz @Zaki @blain2 @Irfan Baloch @TaimiKhan @Socra


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## Clutch

If you get to the stage you need a ventilator due to coronavirus... 7/10 chances are you will die.


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## alibaz

Clutch said:


> If you get to the stage you need a ventilator due to coronavirus... 7/10 chances are you will die.


I believe 3 is still a figure to be considered and the remaining 7 have some more time with reduced pain.


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