# Operation Asifa: 45 Indian soldiers killed by Kashmiri resistance in Pulwama.



## jaiind

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">12 CRPF jawans have lost their lives in an IED blast in Awantipora, Pulwama. Dozens injured. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/JammuAndKashmir?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#JammuAndKashmir</a> (visuals deferred) <a href="https://t.co/bONkKeFFxt">pic.twitter.com/bONkKeFFxt</a></p>&mdash; ANI (@ANI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1096007058443456512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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## CHACHA"G"

faithfulguy said:


> It’s another Vedic surgical strike with augmented reality gears.


First it was ied , then car bomb , then suicide car bomb , then some Pakistani group behind this and in the end Pakistan is behind this...…….. lol almost same old trick indian using from last 20+ years

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## SSGcommandoPAK

20 Indian soldiers have been killed in an attack on CRPF convoy many wounded.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/feb-14-kashmir-blast/story-AoDEbZlMmvU6rHj6mwDDHO.html

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## 313ghazi

Good job freedom fighters of Kashmir.



ARMalik said:


> Typical Iranian mullah running to your hindu buddies for help!
> The rope is tightening around Iran, and it is only a matter of time when it gets attacked by the US, Israel, the Gulf countries, and possibly Turkey and A-stan. Pakistan has remained neutral but if you continue to rant against Pakistan, then probably Pakistan would send a couple of battlefield nukes to complete the job. There is nothing Russia or Indians or anyone else can do for you.
> 
> Iran is being set-up, but you keep barking at the wrong tree.



It's natural selection. We try so hard to be good neighbours, to help them, to not respond to barbs and shortcomings in their mullah regime - all because we have long deep seated ties with the hijacked population. Unfortunately, sometimes there is only so much you can do.

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## darksider

ARMalik said:


> Typical Iranian mullah running to your hindu buddies for help!
> The rope is tightening around Iran, and it is only a matter of time when it gets attacked by the US, Israel, the Gulf countries, and possibly Turkey and A-stan. Pakistan has remained neutral but if you continue to rant against Pakistan, then probably Pakistan would send a couple of battlefield nukes to complete the job. There is nothing Russia or Indians or anyone else can do for you.
> 
> Iran is being set-up, but you keep barking at the wrong tree.


great job freedom fighters.
this show their intentions.and you will see many Pakistanis will choose iranian side.
i hope Pakistan and Saudis will finish this iranian scourge for forever.

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## Zee-shaun

A year from now the Uri 2 will be released. We just saw the script today.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

ARMalik said:


> Typical Iranian mullah running to your hindu buddies for help!
> The rope is tightening around Iran, and it is only a matter of time when it gets attacked by the US, Israel, the Gulf countries, and possibly Turkey and A-stan. Pakistan has remained neutral but if you continue to rant against Pakistan, then probably Pakistan would send a couple of battlefield nukes to complete the job. There is nothing Russia or Indians or anyone else can do for you.
> 
> Iran is being set-up, but you keep barking at the wrong tree.


Ignore this troll, he does not represent Iran or Iranians; so lets not insult Iran which is a friendly nation that has historic and cultural ties with Pakistan, along with being one of the most ideologically closest nation to Pakistan.

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## Menace2Society

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Ignore this troll, he does not represent Iran or Iranians; so lets not insult Iran which is a friendly nation that has historic and cultural ties with Pakistan, along with being one of the most ideologically closest nation to Pakistan.



Proof is in the pudding.

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## Persian Gulf 1906

darksider said:


> great job freedom fighters.
> this show their intentions.and you will see many Pakistanis will choose iranian side.
> i hope Pakistan and Saudis will finish this iranian scourge for forever.


@AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz 

is praising a terrorist attack permitted?

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## Imran Khan

Lets wait for surgi kal strike part 2.0

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## randomradio

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> First Iran now India.
> 
> The scourge of terrorism in our region must be eliminated and Iran-India ties must continue to grow in order to do this.



The problem is the stuff between our two nations.

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## 313ghazi

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz
> 
> is praising a terrorist attack permitted?



Attacking occupying forces in the middle of a declared war in a declared disputed territory is not terrorism. It's warfare - of course it's not like the Ayatollah regime would know much about that. You send terrorists to fight wars and your soldiers fall asleep on duty and get kidnapped by drug smugglers.

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## Persian Gulf 1906

313ghazi said:


> We try so hard to be good neighbours


We must have different definitions.

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## Windjammer

Why were so many troops travelling in a single convoy in such a troubled area. It obviously represented a lucrative target for those fighting Indian opression.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096015949029957632

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## 313ghazi

Windjammer said:


> Why were so many troops travelling in a single convoy in such a troubled area. It obviously represented a lucrative target for those fighting Indian opression.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096015949029957632



2500 occupiers in a single convoy - clearly they were planning something.

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## Yaseen1

india end is near they should voluntarily withdraw from kashmir otherwise whole india will face such attacks soon

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## Zarvan

27 CRPF soldiers dead according to latest information


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## Windjammer

313ghazi said:


> 2500 occupiers in a single convoy - clearly they were planning something.


Yes, 70 vehicles in a single convoy don't shift without a major reason.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096009638473015297


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## Goenitz

is it first of a kind? I never hear that much loss in a single attack? anyway, where did the explosive came from?
can it be a false flag for election..? is MBS in india now?


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## Areesh

Some Indians are saying 37 Indian soldiers killed







@Windjammer

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## darksider

its a big loss for occupying force in a single incident.big moral down for them.
hope families of killed soldiers will force their gov to pull out from Kashmir.why they are losing lives for a piece of land dont belong to them.india is already very big land mass.

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## ARMalik

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> India suffered a horrific Islamic terrorist attack, my message of support is not 'running for help'.
> 
> We are not Pakistanis running to Wahhabistan for money and China to bail us out.
> 
> Looks like you are so proud of being Pakistani that you only identify with Australia!
> 
> It is "only a matter of time" for 40 years now. Keep barking.



Again typical bull.shi.t mullah response - trying to divert attention from the ground reality. Iran is militarily stretched, and openly fighting a war and threatening a Superpower. Iran's is being surrounded and if it looses the support of Pakistan due to looser like you, then its days are numbered. Hopefully there are some smart people in the Iranian regime who see the logic and the real enemy, and don't listen to buffoons like you.

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## Max

Republic said:


> @waz, @Arsalan, @Horus.
> Look at your dogs. How they are dancing, celebrating and praising a pathetic terrorist attack. Please pull the leash.



Militant attack against occupiers not on civilian target like your sponsored terrorists does in Pakistan.

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## Persian Gulf 1906

ARMalik said:


> Again typical bull.shi.t mullah response - trying to divert attention from the ground reality. Iran is militarily stretched, and openly fighting a war and threatening a Superpower. Iran's is being surrounded and if it looses the support of Pakistan due to looser like you, then its days are numbered. Hopefully there are some smart people in the Iranian regime who see the logic and the real enemy, and don't listen to buffoons like you.


Thank God for Pakistan, the only reason Iran has survived 40 years.

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## Kailash Kumar

Blast kills 12 soldiers in Indian Kashmir

14/02/2019

New Delhi (AFP)

At least 12 Indian soldiers were killed on Thursday in the deadliest attack on government forces in Indian-administered Kashmir in more than two years, police said.

They died when an improvised explosive device (IED) went off as a convoy of military vehicles drove on a highway some 20 kilometres (12 miles) from the main city of Srinagar.

"An IED went off as a CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) convoy passed by," senior police officer Munir Ahmed Khan told AFP.

"We have 12 CRPF fatalities. We are evacuating the injured from the site and don't have their number at the moment."

The Press Trust of India (PTI) news agency put the death toll at 18.

Local media reports said the Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed Islamist group had claimed responsibility for the attack.

A spokesman for the group said "the suicide attack" was carried out by Aadil Ahmad, alias Waqas Commando, in a statement sent to local newspapers.

Unconfirmed photos showed the charred remains of at least one vehicle littered across the highway, alongside blue military buses.

It is the deadliest attack on Indian forces in that part of Kashmir since September 2016 when 19 soldiers were killed in a pre-dawn militant raid on the Uri army camp.

India has an estimated 500,000 soldiers in Kashmir, which has been divided between India and Pakistan and riven by unrest since the end of British rule in 1947.

Rebel groups have been fighting for an independent Kashmir, or a merger with Pakistan, since 1989.

New Delhi accuses Pakistan of fuelling the insurgency that has left tens of thousands of civilians dead.

Islamabad denies the charge, saying it only provides diplomatic support to Kashmiris' right to self-determination.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190214-blast-kills-12-soldiers-indian-kashmir

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## Deleted

ARMalik said:


> Typical Iranian mullah running to your hindu buddies for help!
> The rope is tightening around Iran, and it is only a matter of time when it gets attacked by the US, Israel, the Gulf countries, and possibly Turkey and A-stan. Pakistan has remained neutral but if you continue to rant against Pakistan, then probably Pakistan would send a couple of battlefield nukes to complete the job. There is nothing Russia or Indians or anyone else can do for you.
> 
> Iran is being set-up, but you keep barking at the wrong tree.



Russia is in Syria to supports its ally, when Iran has strong relations with Russia than Syria, will Russia not come to save its ally ?


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Indians want drama before elections as mody is losing. Modi killed his own men for votes.

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## ARMalik

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> Thank God for Pakistan, the only reason Iran has survived 40 years.



Keep thanking - it will probably save Iran for another 40-years.

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## Max

@Slav Defence @Horus @waz @Oscar Plz control the guy from Arabian gulf.

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## Lincoln

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> Thank God for Pakistan, the only reason Iran has survived 40 years.



In 2017, Iran's leader Ayatollah Khamenei said that Kashmiris are being oppressed. He also urged Muslim world to "openly support people of Kashmir and repudiate oppressors and tyrants who attacked people in Ramadan"

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/sto...r-bogey-twice-in-two-weeks-1022519-2017-07-05

*HIGHLIGHTS*

Khamenei rakes up kashmir bogey twice in two weeks
Khamenei went on to declare Kashmir a nation and India a Zionist regime.
Khamenei tried to barge-in an issue that India considers strictly bilateral

Probably peeved at the India's first ever prime-ministerial visit to Israel, Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has raked up the Kashmir issue for the second time in two weeks. This time Khamenei has called Iran's judiciary to take up international issues to speak for Muslims of Myanmar and Kashmir.

-----



Deaf or blind? It is India who supports Israel, not Pakistan.

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## SSGcommandoPAK

Update :27 soldiers killed while 40 injured !

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## YeBeWarned

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> Thank God for Pakistan, the only reason Iran has survived 40 years.


Will you also call Palestinian terrorist ? Because they are also fighting occupation forces and Israel and west call them terrorist . Why Kashmiri struggle is any different from Palestinian ?

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> We must have different definitions.


Why just blame Pakistan?
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1867758/1-pakistan-summons-iranian-envoy-deadly-border-attack/

So long as you refuse to recognize that the problem exists because of a hard to control border and the presence of terrorist groups on both sides, plus the turmoil in Afghanistan that has allowed multiple terrorist groups to find sanctuary there, groups that are linked with fighting in Baluchistan & Sistan, you're not going to resolve the issue.

Isolated terrorist attacks will, unfortunately, continue.

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## Laozi

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> Indians want drama before elections as mody is losing. Modi killed his own men for votes.



Opposition in India will use this to defame Modi to the fullest.

Don't you think that Modi will get more votes if he gets enemy soldiers killed rather than killing his own men?


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## Lincoln

Republic said:


> @waz, @Arsalan, @Horus.
> Look at your dogs. How they are dancing, celebrating and praising a pathetic terrorist attack. Please pull the leash.



Didn't know counter attacks against armed forces by people fighting for freedom were now considered terrorist attacks.

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## War Thunder

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> India suffered a horrific Islamic terrorist attack, my message of support is not 'running for help'.
> 
> We are not Pakistanis running to Wahhabistan for money and China to bail us out.
> 
> Looks like you are so proud of being Pakistani that you only identify with Australia!
> 
> It is "only a matter of time" for 40 years now. Keep barking.





I smell an indian guised as iranian.
The very wording of his comment shows it.

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## darksider

its a big loss for occupying force in a single incident.big moral down for them.
hope families of killed soldiers will force their gov to pull out from Kashmir.why they are losing lives for a piece of land dont belong to them.india is already very big land mass.

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## YeBeWarned

The price you pay for occupying someones land . I think it's one of the biggest attack on Indian forces by resistance fighters .

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## ARMalik

Assassins said:


> Russia is in Syria to supports its ally, when Iran has strong relations with Russia than Syria, will Russia not come to save its ally ?



Mate, Russia is in Syria to protect its strategic *Tartus base *in Syria, and to prevent *pipe lines from *the Middle East specially Qatar to pass through Syria and go into Europe. Having *alternative pipelines from Middle East *meant that Europe would have *shut-off Russian gas supplies and bankrupted Russia*. Thus Syria had to be protected - Russia had no choice.


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## VCheng

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> First Iran now India.
> 
> The scourge of terrorism in our region must be eliminated and Iran-India ties must continue to grow in order to do this.



Someone is trying very hard to prevent a Pakistan-brokered deal with the Taliban.

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## SSGcommandoPAK

Areesh said:


> Some Indians are saying 37 Indian soldiers killed
> 
> View attachment 539306
> 
> 
> @Windjammer


Yes the toll is rising expect 50 casualties at least massive attack !


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> Thank God for Pakistan, the only reason Iran has survived 40 years.


Seriously, what benefit does Pakistan gain from supporting or allowing terrorist attacks against Iran? We have no territorial or ideological disputes with Iran. Pakistan herself suffers from terrorism in Balochistan (much of it a result of Afghanistan providing support to these groups).

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## Persian Gulf 1906

War Thunder said:


> I smell an indian guised as iranian.
> The very wording of his comment shows it.


Don't quit the day job.

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## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Seriously, what benefit does Pakistan gain from supporting or allowing terrorist attacks against Iran? We have no territorial or ideological disputes with Iran. Pakistan herself suffers from terrorism in Balochistan (much of it a result of Afghanistan providing support to these groups).



As I said above:



VCheng said:


> Someone is trying very hard to prevent a Pakistan-brokered deal with the Taliban.

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## Crixus

Jaish e Mohammad has claimed the responsibility 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...blast-in-jks-pulwama/articleshow/67992189.cms

Don't worry favor will be returned in the same coin sooner then later 


Starlord said:


> The price you pay for occupying someones land . I think it's one of the biggest attack on Indian forces by resistance fighters .

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## Champion_Usmani

Found that on twitter, most probably this is the attack video by Mujahideen, ignore the tweet text cuz such IED attacks are done by Mujahideen in Kashmir, not by Pak Army.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1095259382399541249


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## Persian Gulf 1906

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Seriously, what benefit does Pakistan gain from supporting or allowing terrorist attacks against Iran? We have no territorial or ideological disputes with Iran. Pakistan herself suffers from terrorism in Balochistan (much of it a result of Afghanistan providing support to these groups).


There is no benefit, but it is a fact that such groups are based in Pakistan and my opinion that Pakistan does not do enough to tackle them.


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## War Thunder

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> Don't quit the day job.



Well might just as well be one of those totally mindless and hooked up on the distractive dissinformation dude tryina be a Brit. But always a wannabe...


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> There is no benefit, but it is a fact that such groups are based in Pakistan and my opinion that Pakistan does not do enough to tackle them.


Why would Pakistan deliberately not do enough to tackle them? You do recognize that Pakistan suffers more terrorist attacks in Balochistan than Iran does in Sistan, don't you? Do you think Pakistan is deliberately allowing terrorist groups like the BLA, JuA, TTP to carry out attacks against her own military and civilians? Do you know where most of these groups are based?

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## ARMalik

VCheng said:


> Someone is trying very hard to prevent a Pakistan-brokered deal with the Taliban.



1- As you said, Pakistan brokering talks between US-Taliban. Looser - India.
2-MBS visiting Pakistan and expecting to announce big deals. Looser - India.
3-Who is present in Chabahar? - India.

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## HRK

ARMalik said:


> Typical Iranian mullah running to your hindu buddies for help!


not mullah but Zartoshti

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## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Why would Pakistan deliberately not do enough to tackle them? You do recognize that Pakistan suffers more terrorist attacks in Balochistan than Iran does in Sistan, don't you? Do you think Pakistan is deliberately allowing terrorist groups like the BLA, JuA, TTP to carry out attacks against her own military and civilians? Do you know where most of these groups are based?



The goal here is to create the impression that Pakistan does not have the control it needs to have over them to be able to offer the guarantees needed to make the final deal possible in Afghanistan.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

VCheng said:


> Someone is trying very hard to prevent a Pakistan-brokered deal with the Taliban.


The timing of both these attacks is rather suspicious. Let's see if the Indians and/or pro-Indian elements of the Establishment in the US try to tie this to the peace talks with the Taliban.

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## VCheng

ARMalik said:


> 1- As you said, Pakistan brokering talks between US-Taliban. Looser - India.
> 2-MBS visiting Pakistan and expecting to announce big deals. Looser - India.
> 3-Who is present in Chabahar? - India.



Let's see what happens in the next round of talks.

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## RPK

Champion_Usmani said:


> Found that on twitter, most probably this is the attack video by Mujahideen, ignore the tweet text cuz such IED attacks are done by Mujahideen in Kashmir, not by Pak Army.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1095259382399541249


Fake


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## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The timing of both these attacks is rather suspicious. Let's see if the Indians and/or pro-Indian elements of the Establishment in the US try to tie this to the peace talks with the Taliban.



As I said above, the goal here is to create the impression that Pakistan does not have the control it needs to have over them to be able to offer the guarantees needed to make the final deal possible in Afghanistan.


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## Riz

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> First Iran now India.
> 
> The scourge of terrorism in our region must be eliminated and Iran-India ties must continue to grow in order to do this.


Ohh.. We are too scared... Mighty india and mighty iranian army is going to invade us... Oh God save us..


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## Irfan Baloch

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> First Iran now India.
> 
> The scourge of terrorism in our region must be eliminated and Iran-India ties must continue to grow in order to do this.


great idea 
you can ask for Help in Syria from Indian close partner nearby

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## Areesh

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Yes the toll is rising expect 50 casualties at least massive attack !



37 are confirmed if that picture is authentic


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## YeBeWarned

Irfan Baloch said:


> great idea
> you can ask for Help in Syria from Indian close partner nearby


Irfan Bhai check out timing of attack on irans revolutionary guards and now on Indian forces , soon Afghan Taliban delegation is arriving in Pakistan for talks .. I feel it's all connected and their agencies will try to assassinate Taliban delegation to sabotage the talks .

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## Irfan Baloch

Starlord said:


> Irfan Bhai check out timing of attack on irans revolutionary guards and now on Indian forces , soon Afghan Taliban delegation is arriving in Pakistan for talks .. I feel it's all connected and their agencies will try to assassinate Taliban delegation to sabotage the talks .


this is why I am surprised and worried why suddenly change the venue from Doha to Pakistan when the talks were already progressing well there.

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## VCheng

Irfan Baloch said:


> this is why I am surprised and worried why suddenly change the venue from Doha to Pakistan when the talks were already progressing well there.



As I asked elsewhere, why did Pakistan agree to such a change of venue?


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## Irfan Baloch

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The timing of both these attacks is rather suspicious. Let's see if the Indians and/or pro-Indian elements of the Establishment in the US try to tie this to the peace talks with the Taliban.


the venue of talks must remain Doha.

also Indian elections are approaching there will be much more violence to keep the Indian voters "focused" at the enemy

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## pahadi

darksider said:


> its a big loss for occupying force in a single incident.big moral down for them.
> hope families of killed soldiers will force their gov to pull out from Kashmir.why they are losing lives for a piece of land dont belong to them.india is already very big land mass.


This way it will take you at least a million years, don't worry your misery won't last that long, will be paid with interest, and don't cry India next time something happens....

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## Irfan Baloch

VCheng said:


> As I asked elsewhere, why did Pakistan agree to such a change of venue?


I indirectly responded with surprise as well.
I dont know and I dont like it

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## VCheng

Irfan Baloch said:


> I indirectly responded with surprise as well.
> I dont know and I dont like it



Could it be that Pakistan is trying to demonstrate its control over the Taliban?


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## Areesh

30 Confirmed now


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096031410479976448


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## YeBeWarned

Irfan Baloch said:


> this is why I am surprised and worried why suddenly change the venue from Doha to Pakistan when the talks were already progressing well there.


And we can't unseen the MBS visit and attack on Iranian guards , we all know Iran has a significant presence in Pakistan and Afghanistan through various agents and sleeper cells .

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## Windjammer

Indian sources are saying that 350 kg of explosives were used in this attack.
So what are we lead to believe that these were smuggled out of Afghanistan into Pakistan and then somehow entered into IOK.
But then, isn't INDIGENOUS a buzzword in India.


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## Deleted

What is abbreviation of CRPF ?


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## Dr. Strangelove

Assassins said:


> What is abbreviation of CRPF ?


Central Reserve Police Force

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## fitpOsitive

I think that modi will win these elections with very thin margin and with only the help of yogi type of people. Then these guys will pressurise modi to attack Pakistan. I think the year may be any from 2019 to 2021.


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## Kompromat

So close to the elections?

Modi must be fist pumping right now.

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## darksider

pahadi said:


> This way it will take you at least a million years, don't worry your misery won't last that long, will be paid with interest, and don't cry India next something happens....


india is doing what it can we already know.but why you are crying right now?
i can heard your scream from here in front of my pc.


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## Persian Gulf 1906

@HRK why you delete my post bro?

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## GodToons

OM Shanti... Payer to the braves.
Karara Jawab milega..


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## YeBeWarned

Crixus said:


> Jaish e Mohammad has claimed the responsibility
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...blast-in-jks-pulwama/articleshow/67992189.cms
> 
> Don't worry favor will be returned in the same coin sooner then later


There is no favor in senseless killing , you kill them they kill you it's that simple , I have been saying this from long Kashmir issue needs to be resolved with peaceful dialog .

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## RPK

Rest In Peace


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## RPK

Rest In Peace


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Windjammer said:


> Indian sources are saying that 350 kg of explosives were used in this attack.
> So what are we lead to believe that these were smuggled out of Afghanistan into Pakistan and then somehow entered into IOK.
> But then, isn't INDIGENOUS a buzzword in India.


A report on Times of India suggests that they've identified the bomber and it's someone from IOK that joined Jaish-e-Mohammed.

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## RPK

Horus said:


> So close to the elections?


Election three months away Election not even announced


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## Mustang06

darksider said:


> its a big loss for occupying force in a single incident.big moral down for them.
> hope families of killed soldiers will force their gov to pull out from Kashmir.why they are losing lives for a piece of land dont belong to them.india is already very big land mass.


Don't put so much strain on your brain!


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## 313ghazi

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> There is no benefit, but it is a fact that such groups are based in Pakistan and my opinion that Pakistan does not do enough to tackle them.



I think you need to look closer to home. We've managed to fund a hard border fence along the Afghan-Pakistan border. You guys need to do the same along the Pakistan-Iran border. 

It's not like you can't afford to do it. Pakistan is always going to focus it's limited resources on the security threats that are more immediate.

I always thought Iran was manning that border sufficiently - that was until a load of your guys got kidnapped whilst asleep on duty! Iran is clearly being targeted and this will only likely increase. Iran should take it's own appropriate measures.

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## M.AsfandYar

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> A report on Times of India suggests that they've identified the bomber and it's someone from IOK that joined Jaish-e-Mohammed.


Yea some local kid named Adil. Looks like 20-25 years.


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## Kompromat

Narrative shaping bhi to karni parti hai yar.



RPK said:


> Election three months away Election not even announced


----------



## MimophantSlayer

Suitable 4 fold punishment is coming soon as it always does.


----------



## Wrath

randomradio said:


> The problem is the stuff between our two nations.


Messing with the wrong people gets you into messes up probs


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## Champion_Usmani

Yes agreed, oppression generates oppression...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096036654186414081

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

CyclopS said:


> Suitable 4 fold punishment is coming soon as it always does.


If the reports are true about a vehicle packed with explosives (someone said 350KG), then the cause is within India. Pakistan and Afghanistan routinely intercept truck loads of explosives being smuggled across their borders in vehicles, but we have a lot more open trade and open borders to allow that to happen. It's almost impossible for a truck load of explosives to be smuggled across the LoC, so these were likely obtained within J&K or India.

The problem for India going forward will be the dissemination of IED and VBIED expertise across militant groups, especially if the components for the explosives are commonly available materials like fertilizer etc.

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## Zarvan

The number is 30 which has been announced but I have seen the list of 37 dead which are declared dead by Hospital


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## Persian Gulf 1906

RIP.

I fully support India defending itself against this disgusting immoral terrorism.

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## monitor

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz
> 
> is praising a terrorist attack permitted?



What is the definition of Terrorist ? is their any universal defecation of Terrorist ? what is terrorism to someone that is fight for freedom for others .

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## M. Sarmad

Mysterious blasts! 
A well thought-out conspiracy against the freedom struggle.


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## Wrath

Laozi said:


> Opposition in India will use this to defame Modi to the fullest.
> 
> Don't you think that Modi will get more votes if he gets enemy soldiers killed rather than killing his own men?


Killing his own soldiers and putting the blame on Pakistan will help him more . Like it did in Uri ....


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## Crixus

Are you in Srinagar ?


Zarvan said:


> The number is 30 which has been announced but* I have seen the list of 37 dead which are declared dead by Hospital*


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## Crixus

Heard about similar blast in Iran too RIP for Iranian soldiers 


Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> RIP.
> 
> I fully support India defending itself against this disgusting immoral terrorism.

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## Wrath

Crixus said:


> Jaish e Mohammad has claimed the responsibility
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...blast-in-jks-pulwama/articleshow/67992189.cms
> 
> Don't worry favor will be returned in the same coin sooner then later


You poke you suffer . You are paying the debt of killing Innocents Kashmiris . And movement of such large number of personnel , in a single convoy , that's a lack of security I'll guess .

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## Areesh

Crixus said:


> Are you in Srinagar ?



A list is present. Don't know how authentic it is

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## Crixus

*Pulwama Terrorist Was Adil Ahmad Dar Who Joined Jaish Last Year: Cops*

*IED blast in Pulwama: Adil Ahmad, also known as "Adil Ahmad Gaadi Takranewala" and "Waqas Commando of Gundibagh", joined Jaish-e-Mohammad
All India | Reported by Neeta Sharma, Edited by Deepshikha Ghosh | Updated: February 14, 2019 19:08 IST
by Taboola
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that he rammed into a bus carrying some 40 personnel, say the police.





His photo and videos emerged soon after the deadly attack, the worst since the 2016 Uri attack in which 19 soldiers were killed by terrorists who barged into an army camp.

Adil Ahmad is armed with rifles and standing in front of what appear to be Jaish-e-Mohammad banners in the video.


Investigators are baffled at the scale of the attack, given that almost the entire leadership of Jaish has been wiped out over the years.

Last year, security forces had claimed a big win after Mohammad Usman, believed to be the head of the module behind sniper attacks on forces in the Kashmir Valley, was killed by security men. Usman was the nephew of Moulana Masood Azhar, the chief of Jaish-e-Mohammad.

COMMENT
In 2017, security forces killed Jaish's operational chief Khalid in Baramulla.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pul...-jaish-last-year-1993691?pfrom=home-topscroll*

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## SSGcommandoPAK

I though the Indian army completely destroyed all launch pads on loc and all freedom fighters of Jammu and Kashmir were dead,btw 350 Kgs of explosives was used in this attack


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## Crixus

The is not a hospital bulletin ..... 


Areesh said:


> A list is present. Don't know how authentic it is
> 
> View attachment 539318



We will make sure misery will shared ........


Fahad Bilal said:


> You poke you suffer . You are paying the debt of killing Innocents Kashmiris . And movement of such large number of personnel , in a single convoy , that's a lack of security I'll guess .


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## Windjammer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> A report on Times of India suggests that they've identified the bomber and it's someone from IOK that joined Jaish-e-Mohammed.


And they repeatedly make the point by adding, Pakistan based, Jaishe-e-Mohammed group.
We may see yet another of those surgical circus drama being played out to the Indian masses.


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## Sine Nomine

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz
> 
> is praising a terrorist attack permitted?


Coming from a person who's country is supporter of Hizabullah.

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## Areesh

Crixus said:


> The is not a hospital bulletin .....



Don't know. Still shared on internet by Indians themselves. Won't be surprised if final count matches that list


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## Crixus

I think it has nothing to do with Pak civilian govt ..... either Jaish or their masters will definitely pay the price 


Champion_Usmani said:


> Yes agreed, oppression generates oppression...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096036654186414081


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## jamahir

Windjammer said:


> Why were so many troops travelling in a single convoy in such a troubled area. It obviously represented a lucrative target for those fighting Indian opression.





313ghazi said:


> 2500 occupiers in a single convoy - clearly they were planning something.



Another important question is : how did the militants come to know of the convoy. How did the militants plan the attack ??

Rest in peace, o soldiers.

And Jaish-e-Mohammed should disband, because its activities are not what the Kashmir solution needs.

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## Crixus

Its Jaish who had claimed the responsibility and Jaish is banned by Pakistan also and you are right they operates from Bhawalpur Punjab Pakistan


Windjammer said:


> And they repeatedly make the point by adding, Pakistan based, Jaishe-e-Mohammed group.
> We may see yet another of those surgical circus drama being played out to the Indian masses.


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Seriously, what benefit does Pakistan gain from supporting or allowing terrorist attacks against Iran? We have no territorial or ideological disputes with Iran. Pakistan herself suffers from terrorism in Balochistan (much of it a result of Afghanistan providing support to these groups).


We don't allow any such activity against Iran.
The only reason they were able to control it was Pakistan.


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## Zarvan

Crixus said:


> Are you in Srinagar ?


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## Mutakalim

Subhan Allah.

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## Windjammer

CyclopS said:


> Suitable 4 fold punishment is coming soon as it always does.


Yes, dig up the Apple Orchards and bring back the pallet gun and make the locals suffer. And tie some innocents in front of army vehicles and abuse the local youths to shout ant-Pakistan slogans and sing Vande Matram.
That'll complete your 4 fold punishment manifesto.

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## Crixus

Its not hospital bulletein , not sure the source of the list 


Zarvan said:


> View attachment 539321


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## Zarvan

Crixus said:


> Its not hospital bulletein , not sure the source of the list


Your media has already confirmed 30 dead the other 7 will also get confirmed


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## Muhammad Omar

Elections aa rhy hain 

Fake Attacks and Fake Surgical Strikes were expected


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## MimophantSlayer

Windjammer said:


> Yes, dig up the Apple Orchards and bring back the pallet gun and make the locals suffer. And tie some innocents in front of army vehicles and abuse the local youths to shout ant-Pakistan slogans and sing Vande Matram.
> That'll complete your 4 fold punishment manifesto.



The only punishment executed upon will be cross border, and we don't need sermons from people murdering and torturing Balochis and Pashtuns.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> RIP.
> 
> I fully support India defending itself against this disgusting immoral terrorism.



Do you support Pakistan in defending against terrorism? 

*Three cops among nine martyred in Loralai attack*

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/425303-three-cops-among-nine-martyred-in-loralai-attack


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## Areesh

CyclopS said:


> The only punishment executed upon will be cross border, and we don't need sermons from people murdering and torturing Balochis and Pashtuns.



Yeah yeah whatever

Boring

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## Zarvan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096044423975182336


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## hussain0216

This is an indian election gimmick

How the hell would you smuggle 350 kgs of explosive across the LOC?

*Either way get the military on full guard, get all personnel ready

The tight slap on india's face will have stung so they are more likely to do something stupid*


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## Windjammer

CyclopS said:


> The only punishment executed upon will be cross border, and we don't need sermons from people murdering and torturing Balochis and Pashtuns.


You are welcome to try your luck and as for the rest, Indians in London demonstrating against dam constructions in Pakistan makes your claims very valid.

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## MimophantSlayer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If the reports are true about a vehicle packed with explosives (someone said 350KG), then the cause is within India. Pakistan and Afghanistan routinely intercept truck loads of explosives being smuggled across their borders in vehicles, but we have a lot more open trade and open borders to allow that to happen. It's almost impossible for a truck load of explosives to be smuggled across the LoC, so these were likely obtained within J&K or India.
> 
> The problem for India going forward will be the dissemination of IED and VBIED expertise across militant groups, especially if the components for the explosives are commonly available materials like fertilizer etc.



On the contrary, since it is not common place for such numbers to exist in India it almost guarantees that this attack required planning and is pakistani in nature.

Terrorist attacks happening all across borders of countries bordering pakistan.
https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-suicide-attack-kills-at-least-20-revolutionary-guards/29768271.html

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## Max

CyclopS said:


> The only punishment executed upon will be cross border, and we don't need sermons from people murdering and torturing Balochis and Pashtuns.



Well first stop talking name of Pashtuns and Baloch from your dirty tongue and care.about Khalistan, Naga, And other 20 ethnicities, I hope modi will give us chance to test our nukes on 1.3 billion lowly subhumans.

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

I am not happy over death of Indian security forces even though they are reaction to Indian army human rights violations.

Most probably modi is involved. It was predicted by people regularly that modi can do a false flag op to win elections and that happened today.

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## MimophantSlayer

hussain0216 said:


> How the hell would you smuggle 350 kgs of explosive across the LOC?



Slowly, over time.



Max said:


> Well first stop talking name of Pashtuns and Baloch from your dirty tongue, I hope modi will give us chance to test our nukes on subhumans once. We love humans.



I don't owe you anything and I'm not going to stop telling the truth regardless of how much it hurts your fefes. 

Also, you brandish your nukes coz you know you are no match for our conventional forces and please don't pretend like we don't have nukes.


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## Max

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> I am not happy over death of Indian security forces even though they are reaction to Indian army human rights violations.
> 
> Most probably modi is involved. It was predicted by people regularly that modi can do a false flag op to win elections and that happened today.


 
He will release a SirJkal movie before election and win.

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## Malik Alpha

As per the list mostly Yadavs and Kumars were killed who don't belong to Kashmir. Good riddance. Long live the Freedom fighters and F the occupiers!

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## Areesh

37 are confirmed now. 39 as per some sources


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096047833017389059

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## Trango Towers

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz
> 
> is praising a terrorist attack permitted?


We do not praise indian army attacks on kashmiris. But we support the freedom fighters and at the same time feel bad for the families of the dead indian soldier. But they are occupiers and not wanted

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## Trango Towers

Couple of days back indians were celebrating the death of freedom fighters.

Gentlemen now IED's have arrived indian forces will be in a big poop. 
IED's destroyed nato

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

CyclopS said:


> On the contrary, since it is not common place for such numbers to exist in India it almost guarantees that this attack required planning and is pakistani in nature.
> 
> Terrorist attacks happening all across borders of countries bordering pakistan.
> https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-suicide-attack-kills-at-least-20-revolutionary-guards/29768271.html


All terrorist attacks require planning - there have been far more complex terrorist attacks in Pakistan, targeting convoys, training academies even GHQ. Large convoy movements like this one are not that hard to find information on because they are scheduled in advance.

The 'training' required here is, unfortunately, not that hard and IED's and VBIED's are being utilized in almost every conflict zone.

And terrorist attacks are not just happening 'across all countries bordering Pakistan, but also in Pakistan, with at least two suicide attacks recorded recently against security forces.

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## Trango Towers

M.AsfandYar said:


> Yea some local kid named Adil. Looks like 20-25 years.


Loooool some poor kid will be hunted for the indian masses who has nothing to do with it. 
Within hours theh know .....my foot

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## PaklovesTurkiye

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096045369496989696

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## litman

another escalation is on the cards now. it was expected just before historic visit of MBS to pak.


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## PaklovesTurkiye

****....Huge attack


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## Trango Towers

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> All terrorist attacks require planning - there have been far more complex terrorist attacks in Pakistan, targeting convoys, training academies even GHQ. Large convoy movements like this one are not that hard to find information on because they are scheduled in advance.
> 
> The 'training' required here is, unfortunately, not that hard and IED's and VBIED's are being utilized in almost every conflict zone.
> 
> And terrorist attacks are not just happening 'across all countries bordering Pakistan, but also in Pakistan, with at least two suicide attacks recorded recently against security forces.


Payback is a bitch....
Pakistan always pays in kind...kashmir will be free or indian will be blood red. 
War with Pak is not possible and quoting Musharaf

Come and ask your DGMO why he doesnt come. He know

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## PaklovesTurkiye

They literally allowed more than 40 soldiers in single convoy? what does that mean?

How many soldiers can come in military truck?


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

CyclopS said:


> Suitable 4 fold punishment is coming soon as it always does.


So you will kill more innocent kashmiris as the attacker was a kashmiri?
Modi had succeeded in winning elections.


----------



## Trango Towers

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> So you will kill more innocent kashmiris as the attacker was a kashmiri?
> Modi had succeeded in winning elections.


They blame the kashmiri...


----------



## Tom M

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> Indians want drama before elections as mody is losing. Modi killed his own men for votes.



Ok, but then you will have agree that it was a similar false flag back in *2014 Peshawar APS*, which facilitated all out control to the military and formation of an opaque military court in Pakistan.

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## Reichsmarschall

they did they find Pakistani passport/currency and Biscuit wrapper yet?

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## Areesh

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> They literally allowed more than 40 soldiers in single convoy? what does that mean?
> 
> How many soldiers can come in military truck?



It was a bus not a truck

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Reichsmarschall said:


> they did they find Pakistani passport/currency and Biscuit wrapper yet?


JeM claimed responsibility and posted a video of the suicide bomber (a local man) on Facebook so that makes it somewhat hard to blame Pakistan.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

litman said:


> another escalation is on the cards now. it was expected just before historic visit of MBS to pak.



Indians can't do escalation as war will be fought on Indian soil, tanking Indian economy which Indians can't afford.

Some people who keep eye on geopolitics are saying that it is done to stop Pakistan sponsored Taliban deal.

I think Indians will now try to get good deal in Afghanistan

Khalilzad is coming to Pakistan in coming week, I read somewhere....Peace talks are still continuing despite negative attempts



Areesh said:


> It was a bus not a truck



ab Samajha


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## Pak-Canuck

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/feb-14-kashmir-blast/story-AoDEbZlMmvU6rHj6mwDDHO.html

Death toll risen to 40 soldiers


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## Reichsmarschall

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> JeM claimed responsibility and posted a video of the suicide bomber (a local man) on Facebook so that makes it somewhat hard to blame Pakistan.


thanks for the update saved me alot of time
just came back from university and saw this news on PDF facebook page
and first thing that came to my mind was our Pak currency and snacks wrappers

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## M. Sarmad

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> They literally allowed more than 40 soldiers in single convoy? what does that mean?
> 
> How many soldiers can come in military truck?



Usually, about 1,000 personnel are part of a convoy but this time it was a total of 2,547 personnel.

A total of 44 CRPF men belonging to different battalions were traveling in the bus that came under attack, 42 have been confirmed dead already.

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## Areesh

*42 CRPF troopers killed in Fidayeen attack in south Kashmir's Awantipora*

At least 42 CRPF personnel were killed in Jammu and Kashmir's Pulwama district on Thursday when a Jaish-e-Mohammed militant rammed an explosives-laden vehicle into the bus they were travelling in, one of the worst strikes in the state in recent years, reports said.

More than 2,500 Central Reserve Police Force personnel, many of them returning from leave to rejoin duty in the Valley, were travelling in the convoy of 78 vehicles when they were ambushed on the Srinagar-Jammu highway in Awantipora.

"A total of 44 CRPF men belonging to different battalions were travelling in the vehicle when the blast occurred," news agency GNS quoted a CRPF official as having said. He said that 42 personnel were killed while two others were critically wounded in the attack.

Police said the militant driving the suicide vehicle was Adil Ahmad from Kakapora in Pulwama who joined the JeM in 2018.

The group has claimed responsibility for the attack that took place about 30 km from Srinagar, they said.

Over 20 people were injured in the attack, which reduced the bus to a mangled heap of iron. Several other buses were damaged in the attack.

Body parts could be seen strewn around the area.

"It was a large convoy and about 2,500 personnel were travelling in multiple vehicles. Some shots were also fired at the convoy," CRPF DG R R Bhatnagar told PTI.

The convoy started from Jammu around 3.30 am and was supposed to reach Srinagar before sunset, officials said.

The number of personnel travelling back to the Valley was high as there was no movement on the highway for the last two to three days because of bad weather and other administrative reasons, they said.

Usually, about 1,000 personnel are part of a convoy but this time it was a total of 2,547 personnel.

A road opening party was deployed and the convoy had armoured vehicles, officials said.

Forensic and bomb analysis teams are on the spot.

The bus that was the focus of the attack belongs to the 76th battalion of the force and had 39 personnel on board, officials said.

CRPF Inspector General (Operations) in the Kashmir Valley Zulfiqar Hasan described it as a "vehicle-bound attack" and said Jammu and Kashmir Police has taken up the investigation. 

https://www.greaterkashmir.com/news...ack-in-south-kashmir-s-awantipora/312944.html


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## Trango Towers

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> JeM claimed responsibility and posted a video of the suicide bomber (a local man) on Facebook so that makes it somewhat hard to blame Pakistan.


Why the f would you post his pic? JeM ??

Suicide attack or IED


----------



## Malik Alpha

Valentines day gift from Mujahideens to Hindu Army

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## Arsalan 345

25+? how i miss this news? i was very busy today.oh God don't blame pakistan now.very sad for lost lives.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

snow lake said:


> Why the f would you post his pic? JeM jahils


It's going to make life really hard for his family ...

But this has become a popular tactic for militant groups that carry out suicide attacks. Get's them lot's of publicity.


----------



## M.AsfandYar

snow lake said:


> Loooool some poor kid will be hunted for the indian masses who has nothing to do with it.
> Within hours theh know .....my foot


He took responsibility, most likely dead in the attack. He was the one in video.


----------



## Corona

Starlord said:


> There is no favor in senseless killing , you kill them they kill you it's that simple , I have been saying this from long Kashmir issue needs to be resolved with peaceful dialog .


Peace forced with brutality is not sustainable or possible between India and Pakistan. 'Accept peace and the killings will stop' is not something either country is gonna buy. And neither India nor Pakistan is gonna hand over what part of Kashmir they have for the advantage of the other. Whatever you're proposing will have to address these issues.


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## Areesh

Historic level randi rona on Indian news channels right now

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## HariPrasad

Yaseen1 said:


> india end is near they should voluntarily withdraw from kashmir otherwise whole india will face such attacks soon



Wait for our response. This time it will be in four piece.


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## M. Sarmad

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096055776131596288


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## litman

so sonar ki aik lohar ki. anyways it was expected. modi needs escalation to win elections and he has a real chance. they want to engage pak in kashmir . timings of the incident are crucial. US taliban deal on one side, withdrawl of US troops from afghanistan and MBS historic visit to pak. all these are going to benefit pak so now they want unrest in pak.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Corona said:


> Peace forced with brutality is not sustainable or possible between India and Pakistan. 'Accept peace and the killings will stop' is not something either country is gonna buy. And neither India nor Pakistan is gonna hand over what part of Kashmir they have for the advantage of the other. Whatever you're proposing will have to address these issues.


But in the case of this particular disputed territory, J&K, isn't that (peace through brutality) exactly what the Indian State is doing? By deploying hundreds of thousands of security forces to control the State and refusing to allow a UN led plebiscite, isn't India waging it's own campaign of 'peace through brutality'?

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## Areesh

43 now


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096053634666823681


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## Crixus

No one is blaiming Pakistan its Jaish - E - Mohammad and their handlers ......... and they will share the pain too


Arsalan 345 said:


> 25+? how i miss this news? i was very busy today.oh God don't blame pakistan now.very sad for lost lives.


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## YeBeWarned

Corona said:


> Peace forced with brutality is not sustainable



that is exactly what India also should understand ..

Rest i want peace in region , and i know neither Pakistan nor India can take Kashmir by Force or Proxies , its best to sit and talk include Kashmiri people in Dialog whatever they want should be respected .

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## MimophantSlayer

There, corrected it for you.



Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> So you will _rightly punish culprit pakistanis_ as the attacker was a kashmiri?
> Modi had succeeded in winning elections.







AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> All terrorist attacks require planning - there have been far more complex terrorist attacks in Pakistan, targeting convoys, training academies even GHQ. Large convoy movements like this one are not that hard to find information on because they are scheduled in advance.
> 
> The 'training' required here is, unfortunately, not that hard and IED's and VBIED's are being utilized in almost every conflict zone.
> 
> And terrorist attacks are not just happening 'across all countries bordering Pakistan, but also in Pakistan, with at least two suicide attacks recorded recently against security forces.



JeM founded by a pakistani and a pakistani headquartered terrorist organization accepted responsibility for the attack, I don't know what else is there to say.


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Tom M said:


> Ok, but then you will have agree that it was a similar false flag back in *2014 Peshawar APS*, which facilitated all out control to the military and formation of an opaque military court in Pakistan.


It was never before elections and was never predicted.
This one was predicted by even a common man in Pakistan.



CyclopS said:


> There, corrected it for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JeM founded by a pakistani and a pakistani headquartered terrorist organization accepted responsibility for the attack, I don't know what else is there to say.


The attackers and their leadership is now kashmiri. I don't know what else to say.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

CyclopS said:


> JeM founded by a pakistani and a pakistani headquartered terrorist organization accepted responsibility for the attack, I don't know what else is there to say.


JeM is banned in Pakistan and the attack was conducted by a local in IOK.

The explosives were likely sourced locally as well, given the size. Unless this guy was able to somehow sneak across the LoC multiple times to get trained and return (which reflects very poorly on the Indian Army) then the issues you have to deal with are all local to IOK.

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## Tom M

Starlord said:


> that is exactly what India also should understand ..
> 
> Rest i want peace in region , and i know neither Pakistan nor India can take Kashmir by Force or Proxies , its best to sit and talk include Kashmiri people in Dialog whatever they want should be respected .



What if GOI won't accept ??? I think it is a chance and a reason for our government to initiate an operations just like your *Operation Zarb-e-Azb *or *Operation Raad ul fassad.
*
And guess what after this incident on one in this word is going to question any such* Operation. *The militants just escalated it one level up higher just like they did in APS Peshawar in Pakistan and look what happened to them.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Tom M said:


> The militants just escalated it one level up higher just like they did in APS Peshawar in Pakistan and look what happened to them.


This incident is in no way comparable to the APS attack - the APS attack was a deliberate terrorist attack on a school full of children, with the specific intent to kill innocent children, with a much higher death toll.

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## Tom M

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> It was never before elections and was never predicted.
> This one was predicted by even a common man in Pakistan.



Who told the beneficiary was any political party in Pakistan. It was your establishment who gained from APS false flag, as *per you logic*. So an election is not an issue for them.

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## Arsalan 345

Crixus said:


> No one is blaiming Pakistan its Jaish - E - Mohammad and their handlers ......... and they will share the pain too



hahaha.i must watch arnab show.lol


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## Crixus

Amen ... go to hell this humanitarian thing ... snakes needs to be treated like snakes 


Tom M said:


> What is GOI won't accept ??? I think it is a chance and a reason for our government to initiate an operations just like your *Operation Zarb-e-Azb *or *Operation Raad ul fassad.
> *
> And guess what after this incident on one in this word is going to question any such* Operation. *The militants just escalated it one level up higher just like they did in APS Peshawar in Pakistan and look what happened to them.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

@CHACHA"G" 
Before you post yet another attack against me and my moderation, please read my responses to the Iranian member you are so critical of, both in this thread and the thread on the attack in Iran.


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## Tom M

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> This incident is in no way comparable to the APS attack - the APS attack was a deliberate terrorist attack on a school full of children, with the specific intent to kill innocent children, with a much higher death toll.



Atleast you agree that both are *terror attacks*, huh ??? So every nation reserve the right to act and Operate against terrorist in the way they deem fit.


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## Arsalan 345

i think they killed a jaish boy yesterday so it was just a payback.as you sow so shall you reap.india isn't innocent.india is on a killing spree in kashmir so it's just a reminder from jaish.lol


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Tom M said:


> Atleast you agree that both are *terror attacks*, huh ??? So every nation reserve the right to act and Operate against terrorist in the way they deem fit.


No, I don't. India is suffering attacks on her security forces in disputed territory it continues to occupy through force, refusing to implement UNSC Resolutions that call for a UN plebiscite to allow the residents of J&K to determine which country they wish to be a part of.

Had this been an attack on civilians, like the Mumbai attacks or APS massacre, I would absolutely agree that this was a terrorist attack.

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## Tom M

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> No, I don't. India is suffering attacks on her security forces in disputed territory it continues to occupy through force, refusing to implement UNSC Resolutions that call for a UN plebiscite to allow the residents of J&K to determine which country they wish to be a part of.
> 
> Had this been an attack on civilians, like the Mumbai attacks or APS massacre, I would absolutely agree that this was a terrorist attack.



Well when we consider the entire world, your words neither mean a think nor carry any weight. Now no one can stop government of India from escalating it into any level so that we can make sure every terrorist (as per us) and her sympathizers are hunted down. Just wait and watch the show as a spectator.

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## YeBeWarned

Tom M said:


> What if GOI won't accept ??? I think it is a chance and a reason for our government to initiate an operations just like your *Operation Zarb-e-Azb *or *Operation Raad ul fassad.
> *
> And guess what after this incident on one in this word is going to question any such* Operation. *The militants just escalated it one level up higher just like they did in APS Peshawar in Pakistan and look what happened to them.



well that is why Dialog's are for, no one will agree to first proposed terms, your Govt will add some points so does our Govt but in the end both country should listen to what Kashmiri people have to say ..

For you Operations like Zarb-e-Azb and Raddul Fassad may backfire because you are not just fighting a Terror Group , Kashmir is a resistance movement and people seen it as such , TTP was and will remain a Terrorist group because they have done 70-80% of their attacks on Civilians , same can not be said for Kashmiri fighters .

APS Peshawar attack was highly motivated on the ideology of them slaughtering kids of Army personnel , I don't see Kashmiri people doing that , even this Attack is against the CRPF which is i think a Paramilitary force .


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Tom M said:


> Well when we consider the entire world, your words neither mean a think nor carry any weight. Now no one can stop government of India from escalating it into any level so that we can make sure every terrorist (as per us) and her sympathizers are hunted down. Just wait and watch the show as a spectator.


India will do what it must, but since you asked for my opinion, I gave it to you, with my reasons. My opinion remains unchanged.


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## Arsalan 345

we should also prepare.focus on the border.tensions will increase.indian forensic team on the spot.they will plant evidence now.pakistan should better prepare.provide anza and anti tank missiles to forward location posts.loc is going to flare up.


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## SorryNotSorry

RIP brothers. 
May god give strength to the families.

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## CHACHA"G"

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> @CHACHA"G"
> Before you post yet another attack against me and my moderation, please read my responses to the Iranian member you are so critical of, both in this thread and the thread on the attack in Iran.


Below is your reply ……. He called it Islamic terrorism , he gave Sunni Islam names , he called us barking ,, and what not and you said he/she entitled to have opinion !!!!!! you call that sectarian BS opinion ?????? Why he is not ban ???? Do you know what he did on thread about 6 years old kid got killed in KSA ???


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## Corona

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> But in the case of this particular disputed territory, J&K, isn't that (peace through brutality) exactly what the Indian State is doing? By deploying hundreds of thousands of security forces to control the State and refusing to allow a UN led plebiscite, isn't India waging it's own campaign of 'peace through brutality'?


Sort of, but not exactly for the same reasons and on a much minor scale. First off, the hundreds of thousand have to do less with Kashmir itself, rather they're there because Kashmir is the sour point between Pakistan and India and the focus of most wars between us. Armed separatism is a recent occurrence in Kashmir. 

As far as the Indian government is concerned, Kashmir is an integral part of India. India doesn't see a need to settle with the Kashmiris. It's already settled that Kashmir is Indian territory. There is no need for peaceful resolution because the issue was resolved 70 years ago. Everything else is agression from other parties.

Then there is the issue of scale. Remove Pakistan from the equation and the Kashmir issue is diminished, the Kashmiri separatists have almost 0 bargaining power, and all the chips are in India's hands. 

Quite simply, peace with Pakistan is a good thing to have down the road and might be benificial. Peace with Kashmir is an afterthought.

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## Trango Towers

Tom M said:


> What if GOI won't accept ??? I think it is a chance and a reason for our government to initiate an operations just like your *Operation Zarb-e-Azb *or *Operation Raad ul fassad.
> *
> And guess what after this incident on one in this word is going to question any such* Operation. *The militants just escalated it one level up higher just like they did in APS Peshawar in Pakistan and look what happened to them.


If i was JeM

I would move cells to mumbai, delhi etc.
When u start operations. The cells activate their operations.


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## aman_rai

This asks for a reply... Sab Pele jainge...

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## Tom M

snow lake said:


> If i was JeM
> 
> I would move cells to mumbai, delhi etc.
> When u start operations. The cells activate their operations.



Well easier said than done. 

Moreover there is a reason why the supporters and sympathizers of *JeM *and likes also have to read about similar attacks back home. Nothing happens without any reason.


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## Max

As per recent report Commander in Chief Modi have called a meeting in PM house with Bollywood directors to discuss the next SirGKal Strike. Lol

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## Trango Towers

aman_rai said:


> This asks for a reply... Sab Pele jainge...


You were celebrating a couple of days back...celebrate now



Tom M said:


> Well easier said than done.
> 
> Moreover there is a reason why the supporters and sympathizers of *JeM *and likes also have to read about similar attacks back home. Nothing happens without any reason.


I think u remember how a few men held up your cities. Notjing is impossible

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## Areesh

44 killed now:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096063432586158080


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## litman

one thing is for sure. the situation in kashmir is going to worsen. now indian forces will kill more innocent kashmirirs and the locals will launch more suicide attacks on terrorists.


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## Tom M

Starlord said:


> well that is why Dialog's are for, no one will agree to first proposed terms, your Govt will add some points so does our Govt but in the end both country should listen to what Kashmiri people have to say ..
> 
> For you Operations like Zarb-e-Azb and Raddul Fassad may backfire because you are not just fighting a Terror Group , Kashmir is a resistance movement and people seen it as such , TTP was and will remain a Terrorist group because they have done 70-80% of their attacks on Civilians , same can not be said for Kashmiri fighters .
> 
> APS Peshawar attack was highly motivated on the ideology of them slaughtering kids of Army personnel , I don't see Kashmiri people doing that , even this Attack is against the CRPF which is i think a Paramilitary force .




Why do you expect India to provide you something to Pakistan which you have unilaterally tried to change and grab and lost multiple times in war(s)???? 

Sorry, we can afford some losses, but sadly the cost that an average Kashmiri's will have to pay will be very huge if things go this way.

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## litman

and indian soldiers will pi*s in their pants when they will get orders to go to kashmir.


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## MimophantSlayer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> JeM is banned in Pakistan and the attack was conducted by a local in IOK.
> 
> The explosives were likely sourced locally as well, given the size. Unless this guy was able to somehow sneak across the LoC multiple times to get trained and return (which reflects very poorly on the Indian Army) then the issues you have to deal with are all local to IOK.



Only in name, terrorist organisations in pakistan change names like people change clothes, to dodge the "ban" bullet.

Everyone knows JeM operates from pakistan.
https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/tg944.aspx

A country(India) not known to have such large scale bombings like this almost guarantees that the explosives were imported from a country(pakistan) that DOES HAVE such attacks on a regular basis.

Things get smuggled into India from pakistan all the time, also why would the same guy go across the border multiple times?
The whole point of a terrorist organisation is that they collaborate and do things as a group.
They could have easily hoarded the explosive material over time and waited for their pakistani handlers to plan and then initiated the attack.
Illiterate, rag tag bunch of 20 year olds don't have the connections or the knowledge to execute such an operation, you would need a much experienced force like the ISI which conducts such ops in Iran and Afghanistan as well.



Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> The attackers and their leadership is now kashmiri. I don't know what else to say.



JeM is a terrorist organisation formed in pakistan, its founder was born in Bahawalpur, Punjab, pakistan and is headquartered in pakistan.


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## Trango Towers

litman said:


> one thing is for sure. the situation in kashmir is going to worsen. now indian forces will kill more innocent kashmirirs and the locals will launch more suicide attacks on terrorists.


Terrorists as in indian occupiers


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## Tom M

snow lake said:


> I think u remember how a few men held up your cities. Notjing is impossible



AS if such things never happened with you ever ??? Mark my words, what goes around comes around.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

CHACHA"G" said:


> Below is your reply ……. He called it Islamic terrorism , he gave Sunni Islam names , he called us barking ,, and what not and you said he/she entitled to have opinion !!!!!! you call that sectarian BS opinion ?????? Why he is not ban ???? Do you know what he did on thread about 6 years old kid got killed in KSA ???
> View attachment 539337


His comment of 'barking' was a response to a personal attack on him from a Pakistani. Neither comments were acceptable. And many people consider these kinds of attacks 'Islamic terrorism', which I disagree with, since in both cases the attacks were driven primarily by ethnic motivations. But that said, given that he belongs to a Muslim country as well, he has a right to his opinion that these attacks are 'Islamic terrorism', as flawed as that opinion might be. The best response would be to point out why these attacks are not 'Islamic terrorism', though in the case of the Iran attack it was terrorism.


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## YeBeWarned

Tom M said:


> Why do you expect India to provide you something to Pakistan which you have unilaterally tried to change and grab and lost multiple times in war(s)????
> 
> Sorry, we can afford some losses, but sadly the cost that an average Kashmiri's will have to pay will be very huge if things go this way.



You are not providing us anything , Kashmir was never yours to begin with .. It was a disputed land ,and an unfinished business in S.Asia .

As i said in my earlier post, senseless killing will not help nor stop the violence .


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## aman_rai

snow lake said:


> You were celebrating a couple of days back...celebrate now


Show me where and what I celebrated??
Else contribute something positive


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## Aryan0395

It does demand for an escalation from Indian side now and if the govt doesnt then its worthless and we are unfortunate because our other option is even more unfortunate. During doklam our option said "Gove antagonize china".


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Corona said:


> Sort of, but not exactly for the same reasons and on a much minor scale. First off, the hundreds of thousand have to do less with Kashmir itself, rather they're there because Kashmir is the sour point between Pakistan and India and the focus of most wars between us. Armed separatism is a recent occurrence in Kashmir.
> 
> As far as the Indian government is concerned, Kashmir is an integral part of India. India doesn't see a need to settle with the Kashmiris. It's already settled that Kashmir is Indian territory. There is no need for peaceful resolution because the issue was resolved 70 years ago. Everything else is agression from other parties.
> 
> Then there is the issue of scale. Remove Pakistan from the equation and the Kashmir issue is diminished, the Kashmiri separatists have almost 0 bargaining power, and all the chips are in India's hands.
> 
> Quite simply, peace with Pakistan is a good thing to have down the road and might be benificial. Peace with Kashmir is an afterthought.


The problem being that Pakistan can't be removed from the equation since it is a party to the dispute that India herself brought to the UNSC. That and the Kashmiris don't want Pakistan to be removed from the equation. At the end of the day the issue is the people of J&K, and regardless of what the Indian position is, the Kashmir and Pakistani position remains the same, as emphasized by the UNSC Resolutions on the dispute.



CyclopS said:


> A country(India) not known to have such large scale bombings like this almost guarantees that the explosives were imported from a country(pakistan) that DOES HAVE such attacks on a regular basis.


How? As I said, IED and VBIED expertise is available across multiple conflict zones. They don't need to train in Pakistan or obtain material in Pakistan if they are using commonly available materials such as fertilizer from India.

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## Tom M

Starlord said:


> You are not providing us anything , Kashmir was never yours to begin with .. It was a disputed land ,and an unfinished business in S.Asia .
> 
> As i said in my earlier post, senseless killing will not help nor stop the violence .



It is a matter of perception and you guy's are fully entitled to your perception and views, I do respect they even though I don't agree with that.

And we view Kashmir (the whole Kingdom prior to 1947) as our integral part and we thrive to integrate it fully with the Indian union down the road sometime in future.

So, yes as I have said earlier we are ready to afford some losses.

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## Syed1.

You reap what you sow


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## Tom M

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The problem being that Pakistan can't be removed from the equation since it is a party to the dispute that India herself brought to the UNSC. That and the Kashmiris don't want Pakistan to be removed from the equation. At the end of the day the issue is the people of J&K, and regardless of what the Indian position is, the Kashmir and Pakistani position remains the same, as emphasized by the UNSC Resolutions on the dispute.



With all due respect the *UNSC *resolutions on Kashmir are non enforceable and I'm pretty sure you know that better than me. They act more or less like a guidelines, nothing else. And regardless of what some Kashmiri's and Pakistan think our position is also loud and clear. *KASHMIR IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF INDIA*.

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## atya

Was this a suicide attack or IED???


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## RuheTag

Tom M said:


> we thrive to integrate it fully with the Indian union down the road sometime in future.


70 years, people are dying. that down the road is ... still down the road.



Tom M said:


> we are ready to afford some losses.



then why Surgical strikes?


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## MimophantSlayer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096068318761385985


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## Tom M

Syed1. said:


> You reap what you sow



Yeah, have been watching and reading that for the last two decades from a living example next door. Anyways thanks for reminding.

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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> With all due respect the *UNSC *resolutions on Kashmir are non enforceable and I'm pretty sure you know that better than me.



No UNSC Resolution is "Non Enforceable"... 
Moreover, the UN Resolutions on Kashmir are 'Binding' on all parties involved


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## Champion_Usmani

Crixus said:


> I think it has nothing to do with Pak civilian govt ..... either Jaish or their masters will definitely pay the price



Thand Rakh...
Right now, you have paid price with 35 boys, enjoy... will pay more price in future INSHAALLAH.


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## YeBeWarned

Tom M said:


> It is a matter of perception and you guy's are fully entitled to your perception and views, I do respect they even though I don't agree with that.
> 
> And we view Kashmir (the whole Kingdom prior to 1947) as our integral part and we thrive to integrate it fully with the Indian union down the road sometime in future.
> 
> So, yes as I have said earlier we are ready to afford some losses.



you can say because you might never end up fighting a war which has no end in sight, you may never experience where Soldiers have to kill innocent civilians because of their seniors order to do so, you may never face the situation which your soldiers face in Kashmir , check out the Suicide rate there among IA forces .

and as for blood, if Indians have no value for their own Soldiers than good luck .


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Tom M said:


> With all due respect the *UNSC *resolutions on Kashmir are non enforceable and I'm pretty sure you know that better than me. They act more or less like a guidelines, nothing else. And regardless of what some Kashmiri's and Pakistan think our position is also loud and clear. *KASHMIR IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF INDIA*.


But they remain the only mutually agreed upon means to resolve the dispute - the government of India committed to them multiple times before eventually reneging on them. They also remain the only moral and just solution to resolve a conflict and dispute over territory - allow the people that belong to the land of J&K to determine freely which country they wish to be a part of. As the self-proclaimed world's largest democracy, India, of all countries, should respect this means of dispute resolution.

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## Imran Khan

so mouth war is started or not yet?

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## Champion_Usmani

NDTV has reported this while ago,

40 CRPF Men Killed In Blast In Kashmir's Pulwama, Worst Attack In Decades

SRINAGAR: Nearly 40 Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) personnel were killed and many others injured when terrorists targeted a convoy with a car bomb at Awantipora in Jammu and Kashmir's Pulwama district today, in what is the worst attack ever on security personnel in the state.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/15-...r-blast-in-jammu-and-kashmirs-pulwama-1993561

ECONOMIC TIMES India...

*At least 42 CRPF personnel killed in suicide attack in Kashmir's Pulwama district*


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## Tom M

RuheTag said:


> 70 years, people are dying. that down the road is ... still down the road.



Alteast put the facts correctly which almost everyone here know. The militancy in Kashmir began in tandem with the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, *1989 *to be precise. Till then there was no major issues, let alone terrorism for long 40 years in J&K. 

And we have enough patience and resources to wait for that very down the road, for us the Status Quo is more than enough.

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## alphapak

Modi needed this to ramp up his ego and votes, expect plenty of mouth
farts from BJP.


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## AHMED85

Imran Khan said:


> Lets wait for surgi kal strike part 2.0




Referendum is the only option.[emoji94] [emoji725]

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## RuheTag

Tom M said:


> Alteast put the facts correctly which almost everyone here know. The militancy in Kashmir began in tandem with the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, *1989 *to be precise.


1948 war in which is what is now peaceful Kashmir separated was fought in Democratic Republic of Congo?


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## Arsalan 345

mounting pressure on modi.modi will do something before election.he needs more votes.cabinet committee tomorrow.pakistan should focus on the border.paf should remain alert.they were killing kashmiri youth brutally.now they payback.irgc threatened us today now this attack.keep focus on both india pakistan and iran pakistan border.


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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> No UNSC Resolution is "Non Enforceable"...
> Moreover, the UN Resolutions on Kashmir are '*Binding*' on all parties involved



Sorry to say, you are completely wrong here. 

Since the *Resolution 47, passed under Chapter VI of the UN charter, was not binding or enforceable, unlike those passed under Chapter VII*. The resolutions passed under Chapter-VI is more like guidelines rather than any specific order that someone have to oblige. Now please understand it loud and clear from the following source from UN itself, especially Article 38 which covers all others Articles 33 through 37 in Chapter-VI

Chapter-VI

Article-38: Without prejudice to the provisions of Articles 33 to 37, the Security Council may, if all the parties to any dispute so request, make *recommendations *to the parties with a view to a pacific settlement of the dispute.

If you still have doubts, go consult any legal expert in International law for more clarification.

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## Champion_Usmani

Add one more point into this.

Upcoming US withdrawal from Afghanistan in near future, and Indians blaming JeM after a long time, previously they blamed Let for such false flag attacks..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096050847551811584

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## Mrc

atya said:


> Was this a suicide attack or IED???




In my opinion its an IED looking from damage to bus

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## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096042861060124672

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## Crixus

Dont worry the price will be mutual 


Champion_Usmani said:


> Thand Rakh...
> Right now, you have paid price with 35 boys, enjoy... will pay more price in future INSHAALLAH.

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## MimophantSlayer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> How? As I said, IED and VBIED expertise is available across multiple conflict zones. They don't need to train in Pakistan or obtain material in Pakistan if they are using commonly available materials such as fertilizer from India.



India has very strict control measures for fertilizers that can be used in explosives.
Again, it is much more sensible to doubt pakistan that is a haven for bombings than India which nigh never has vbied attacks like this.

This is not a normal attack, the level of intelligence you would need(accumulated and real time) would have to include big players and in all probability complicated tech. You would need the exact timing of the approaching soldiers and then placement of that large quantity of explosives and you expect people to believe that teenagers and 20 year olds executed that? Yeah right.

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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> Sorry to say, you are completely wrong here.
> 
> Since the *Resolution 47, passed under Chapter VI of the UN charter, was not binding or enforceable, unlike those passed under Chapter VII*. The resolutions passed under Chapter-VI is more like guidelines rather than any specific order that someone have to oblige. Now please understand it loud and clear from the following source from UN itself, especially Article 38 which covers all others Articles 33 through 37 in Chapter-VI
> 
> Chapter-VI
> 
> Article-38: Without prejudice to the provisions of Articles 33 to 37, the Security Council may, if all the parties to any dispute so request, make *recommendations *to the parties with a view to a pacific settlement of the dispute.
> 
> If you still have doubts, go consult any legal expert in International law for more clarification.



Let me educate you, my ignorant Indian friend:

*The UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir are neither "Unenforceable" nor *_*"Non-binding" *... _


*1)* UN maintains that "NO SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION CAN BE DESCRIBED AS UNENFORCEABLE."


*2)* There always has been a general inability of the Permanent Five to agree upon imaginative and expansive applications of Chapter VI ... In Somalia, the Security Council deployed the UN's first operation, UNOSOM I, in mid-1992 to separate warring combatants and help delivery of humanitarian relief ....

UNOSOM I entered and operated without invoking Chapter VII

Further Reading: http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/6/1/1305.pdf



*3) *India approached UN under Chapter VI of the UN charter , BUT the decision taken by UN reflected that its resolutions were not based exclusively on this chapter .... The resolutions , apart from chapter VI , are based upon other chapters , including chapter VII

The fact that there does not exist any provision for the deputing of UN peace keeping mission under chapter VI makes it obvious that UN resolutions were not exclusively based on chapter VI .... The interim measures which included cease fire and deputation of United Nations Military Observer Group were based on Article 40 of chapter VII ...

Besides chapter VI and VII , UN resolutions are based on other chapters also(i.e Article 1 , Chapter I (2) and Article 55 , Chapter IX) ...

^^ And this is not my personal opinion. That is Rosalyn Higgins' opinion on 'Kashmir Resolutions and under which chapter they were passed' .. Source: 'Higgins, Rosalyn. United Nations Peace Keeping 1946-67: Documents and Commentary. London, UK: Oxford University Press, 1970. (349-51)

_(Rosalyn Higgins is an expert on International Law; a Doctor of Juridical Science. She has served as a Judge in the International Court of Justice for fourteen years (and was elected President in 2006). Her competence has been recognised by many academic institutions, having received at least thirteen honorary doctorates)_




*4)* While a recommendation under Chapter VI by itself "may not" be binding, this is not the case in the Kashmir dispute. Here, the parties have consented to be bound by the resolutions of 13 August and 5 January. _(13 M. WHITEMAN, DIGEST OF INTERNATIONAL LAW 360 (1968)._



*5) *The UNSC Resolutions endorsed a binding agreement between India and Pakistan reached through the mediation of UNCIP, that a plebiscite would be held, under agreed and specified conditions. A letter dated December 23, 1948, from India's Secretary-General of the Ministry of External Affairs to the Representative of UNCIP, stated that the Indian Prime Minister's acceptance of the 5 January resolution was conditioned on Pakistan's acceptance of the resolution. By this letter, India consented to be bound by the resolution of 5 January and, through this, the resolution of 13 August as well. _(Aide Memoire No. 1, Letter Dated 23 December 1948 From the Secretary General of the Ministry of External Affairs and Commonwealth Relations of the Government of India to Mr. Alfredo Lozano, Representative of UNCIP at 23, U.N. Doc. S/1196 (1949)_




*6) Self-Determination as a Binding Rule of International Law*

Four instances may inform the principle of self-determination with a legal dimension.

(i) *The principle of self-determination is binding upon the parties, whether they have adopted it as the basis or as a criterion for the settlement of a particular issue or dispute*. In the peace treaties after World War I, and in the cases of Kashmir (after 1948), the Saar Territory (1955), and Algeria’s struggle for independence, the principle of self-determination was chosen as a basis for negotiation, and in the Agreement on Ending War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam (1973) the parties expressly recognized the South Vietnamese people’s right to self-determination.


http://opil.ouplaw.com/view/10.1093/law:epil/9780199231690/law-9780199231690-e873





*7) The binding nature of these UN resolutions (as acknowledged by Indian officials)*



Finally some quotes from Indian officials on Kashmir exemplifying their commitment to plebiscite rather than forced accession as history has found them do :-

We adhere strictly to our pledge of plebiscite in Kashmir; a pledge made to the people because they believe in democratic government; We don't regard Kashmir as a commodity to be trafficked in -Krishna Menon (Press statement in London, reported in the Statesman, New Delhi, 2nd August, 1951)

The Government of India not only reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of the continuing accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India shall be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite under the auspices of the United Nations, but is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a plebiscite should be created as quickly as possible -Letter from Govt. of India to UN Representative for India and Pakistan, 11th September, 1951

I want to say for the purpose of the record that there is nothing that has been said on behalf of the Government of India which in the slightest degree indicates that the Government of India or the Union of India will dishonour any international obligations it has undertaken.
-Krishna Menon (Statement at UN Security Council, 24th January, 1957)

The resolutions of January 17, 1948 and the resolutions of the UNICP, the assurances given, these are all resolutions which carry a greater weight; that is because we have accepted them, we are parties to them, whether we like them or not. -Krishna Menon, (Statement at UN Security Council, 20th February, 1957)

These documents (UNCIP reports) and declarations and the resolutions of the Security Council are decisions; they are resolutions, there has been some resolving of a question of one character or another, there has been a meeting of minds on this question where we have committed ourselves to it. -Krishna Menon, (Statement at the Security Council, 9th October, 1957)


India believes that sovereignty rests in the people and should return to them. -Krishna Menon, (The Statesman, Delhi, 19th January, 1962)





Therefore, India is bound by word and deed to leave the future of Kashmir to the will of its people.

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## Tom M

RuheTag said:


> 1948 war in which is what is now peaceful Kashmir separated was fought in Democratic Republic of Congo?



And everyone know that the regular forces of the *Democratic Republic of Congo *fought in disguise as local Kashmiris for that. And the irony is, the entire world except the DRC know the fact.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

By the way, I would like to thank our Indian members participating in this thread on keeping their engagement extremely civil and rational for the most part, despite some provocations from _some_ Pakistani members, in what must obviously be a very emotionally trying moment.

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## Champion_Usmani

Crixus said:


> Dont worry the price will be mutual


You are most welcome, No sympathy from our side. Lets play.


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## pakdefender

This will help Modi get re-elected , Hindu right wing groups have done this kind of thing before recall 2006 Malegaon bombings done by Abhinav Bharat

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## RuheTag

Tom M said:


> And everyone know that the regular forces of the *Democratic Republic of Congo *fought in disguise as local Kashmiris for that. And the irony is, the entire world except the DRC know the fact.



What an humiliation would be to lose a war to DRC?


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## SSGcommandoPAK




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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

CyclopS said:


> India has very strict control measures for fertilizers that can be used in explosives.
> Again, it is much more sensible to doubt pakistan that is a haven for bombings than India which nigh never has vbied attacks like this.
> 
> This is not a normal attack, the level of intelligence you would need(accumulated and real time) would have to include big players and in all probability complicated tech. You would need the exact timing of the approaching soldiers and then placement of that large quantity of bomb and you expect people to believe that teenagers and 20 year olds executed that? Yeah right.


But by that yardstick even more complex terrorist attacks in Pakistan would require similar, if not more, involvement of 'big players' and 'complicated tech'.

The expertise to conduct such attacks has been available for over a decade in conflict zones like Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc. Fertilizers are supposedly controlled in Pakistan as well, in fact Pakistan and the US came to an agreement a few years ago on changing the chemical composition of fertilizer in Pakistan to make it less useful as an explosive. Given the corruption in both countries, I highly doubt it's impossible to obtain materials used in explosives in either country.


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## Malik Shani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096059996838625280


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## Champion_Usmani

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096042861060124672


Agreed with Gen Amjad Shoaib...

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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> Let me educate you, my ignorant Indian friend:
> 
> *The UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir are neither "Unenforceable" nor *_*"Non-binding" *... _
> 
> 
> *1)* UN maintains that "NO SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION CAN BE DESCRIBED AS UNENFORCEABLE."
> 
> 
> *2)* There always has been a general inability of the Permanent Five to agree upon imaginative and expansive applications of Chapter VI ... In Somalia, the Security Council deployed the UN's first operation, UNOSOM I, in mid-1992 to separate warring combatants and help delivery of humanitarian relief ....
> 
> UNOSOM I entered and operated without invoking Chapter VII
> 
> Further Reading: http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/6/1/1305.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> *3) *India approached UN under Chapter VI of the UN charter , BUT the decision taken by UN reflected that its resolutions were not based exclusively on this chapter .... The resolutions , apart from chapter VI , are based upon other chapters , including chapter VII
> 
> The fact that there does not exist any provision for the deputing of UN peace keeping mission under chapter VI makes it obvious that UN resolutions were not exclusively based on chapter VI .... The interim measures which included cease fire and deputation of United Nations Military Observer Group were based on Article 40 of chapter VII ...
> 
> Besides chapter VI and VII , UN resolutions are based on other chapters also(i.e Article 1 , Chapter I (2) and Article 55 , Chapter IX) ...
> 
> ^^ And this is not my personal opinion. That is Rosalyn Higgins' opinion on 'Kashmir Resolutions and under which chapter they were passed' .. Source: 'Higgins, Rosalyn. United Nations Peace Keeping 1946-67: Documents and Commentary. London, UK: Oxford University Press, 1970. (349-51)
> 
> _(Rosalyn Higgins is an expert on International Law; a Doctor of Juridical Science. She has served as a Judge in the International Court of Justice for fourteen years (and was elected President in 2006). Her competence has been recognised by many academic institutions, having received at least thirteen honorary doctorates)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *4)* While a recommendation under Chapter VI by itself "may not" be binding, this is not the case in the Kashmir dispute. Here, the parties have consented to be bound by the resolutions of 13 August and 5 January. _(13 M. WHITEMAN, DIGEST OF INTERNATIONAL LAW 360 (1968)._
> 
> 
> 
> *5) *The UNSC Resolutions endorsed a binding agreement between India and Pakistan reached through the mediation of UNCIP, that a plebiscite would be held, under agreed and specified conditions. A letter dated December 23, 1948, from India's Secretary-General of the Ministry of External Affairs to the Representative of UNCIP, stated that the Indian Prime Minister's acceptance of the 5 January resolution was conditioned on Pakistan's acceptance of the resolution. By this letter, India consented to be bound by the resolution of 5 January and, through this, the resolution of 13 August as well. _(Aide Memoire No. 1, Letter Dated 23 December 1948 From the Secretary General of the Ministry of External Affairs and Commonwealth Relations of the Government of India to Mr. Alfredo Lozano, Representative of UNCIP at 23, U.N. Doc. S/1196 (1949)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *6) Self-Determination as a Binding Rule of International Law*
> 
> Four instances may inform the principle of self-determination with a legal dimension.
> 
> (i) *The principle of self-determination is binding upon the parties, whether they have adopted it as the basis or as a criterion for the settlement of a particular issue or dispute*. In the peace treaties after World War I, and in the cases of Kashmir (after 1948), the Saar Territory (1955), and Algeria’s struggle for independence, the principle of self-determination was chosen as a basis for negotiation, and in the Agreement on Ending War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam (1973) the parties expressly recognized the South Vietnamese people’s right to self-determination.
> 
> 
> http://opil.ouplaw.com/view/10.1093/law:epil/9780199231690/law-9780199231690-e873
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *7) The binding nature of these UN resolutions (as acknowledged by Indian officials)*
> 
> 
> 
> Finally some quotes from Indian officials on Kashmir exemplifying their commitment to plebiscite rather than forced accession as history has found them do :-
> 
> We adhere strictly to our pledge of plebiscite in Kashmir; a pledge made to the people because they believe in democratic government; We don't regard Kashmir as a commodity to be trafficked in -Krishna Menon (Press statement in London, reported in the Statesman, New Delhi, 2nd August, 1951)
> 
> The Government of India not only reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of the continuing accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India shall be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite under the auspices of the United Nations, but is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a plebiscite should be created as quickly as possible -Letter from Govt. of India to UN Representative for India and Pakistan, 11th September, 1951
> 
> I want to say for the purpose of the record that there is nothing that has been said on behalf of the Government of India which in the slightest degree indicates that the Government of India or the Union of India will dishonour any international obligations it has undertaken.
> -Krishna Menon (Statement at UN Security Council, 24th January, 1957)
> 
> The resolutions of January 17, 1948 and the resolutions of the UNICP, the assurances given, these are all resolutions which carry a greater weight; that is because we have accepted them, we are parties to them, whether we like them or not. -Krishna Menon, (Statement at UN Security Council, 20th February, 1957)
> 
> These documents (UNCIP reports) and declarations and the resolutions of the Security Council are decisions; they are resolutions, there has been some resolving of a question of one character or another, there has been a meeting of minds on this question where we have committed ourselves to it. -Krishna Menon, (Statement at the Security Council, 9th October, 1957)
> 
> 
> India believes that sovereignty rests in the people and should return to them. -Krishna Menon, (The Statesman, Delhi, 19th January, 1962)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Therefore, India is bound by word and deed to leave the future of Kashmir to the will of its people.



Oh, really ???? If it is legally binding why don't the people of Kashmir or Pakistan on their behalf don't drag India to any international courts for non implementation of this legally BINDING document , every thought huh ???

It's because, The resolution was passed under the Chapter VI of the United Nations Charter (which is devoted to "peaceful settlement of disputes"). It did not consist of directives to the parties, but rather "recommendations". Former UN diplomat Josef Korbel states that this bound the parties only "morally" but not "juridically". The final resolution of the conflict rested with the governments of India and Pakistan and depended on their goodwill.


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## kmc_chacko

pakdefender said:


> This will help Modi in elections



I think irrespective of parties this will have big impact on elections, as NaMo won last election on the basis of 56" chest and this time if anybody comes up with 57" he will win.

But sadly this will be the dead end for India - Pakistan relations and future will depend on NaMos actions & IKs reactions.


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## Jackdaws

What do you think is going to happen? Do you think killing 40 odd soldiers in a dastardly attack is going to make these morons overthrow the Indian regime? No, just like innocent Indian soldiers were killed - India will retaliate and kill Pak soldiers. Remember even during Kargil, India shot down an Atlantique aircraft of Pak near Kutch and Pak took India to ICJ and lost the case. So loss of life on this side will result in loss of life on the other. I will not cheer though - I don't think anyone should die because of egos of nations.

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## MimophantSlayer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> But by that yardstick even more complex terrorist attacks in Pakistan would require similar, if not more, involvement of 'big players' and 'complicated tech'.



True.
Pakistan, rightly, has a lot of enemies and they try continuously to hit the pakistani state and it is only natural that one large attack will pass through with or without 'big players' and 'complicated tech'.



> The expertise to conduct such attacks has been available for over a decade in conflict zones like Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc.



Kashmir is not Syria.

Expertise differs from region to region.
ISIS in Malaysia differs a boat load from ISIS in Syria and the rest of the middle east.



> Fertilizers are supposedly controlled in Pakistan as well, in fact Pakistan and the US came to an agreement a few years ago on changing the chemical composition of fertilizer in Pakistan to make it less useful as an explosive. Given the corruption in both countries, I highly doubt it's impossible to obtain materials used in explosives in either country.



Nothing is impossible, but it is MORE POSSIBLE that the attack emanated from pakistan.
You can't really say a repeat offender is innocent while the victim with a cleaner record is guilty of hurting itself.

Similar attacks occur in Iran and Afghanistan which pakistan is blamed for.

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## Tom M

RuheTag said:


> What an humiliation would be to lose a war to DRC?



Still far better than loosing to you on and concede unconditional surrender in record number of days.

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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> Oh, really ???? If it is legally binding why don't the people of Kashmir or Pakistan on their behalf don't drag India to any international courts for non implementation of this legally BINDING document , every thought huh ???
> 
> It's because, The resolution was passed under the Chapter VI of the United Nations Charter (which is devoted to "peaceful settlement of disputes"). It did not consist of directives to the parties, but rather "recommendations". Former UN diplomat Josef Korbel states that this bound the parties only "morally" but not "juridically". The final resolution of the conflict rested with the governments of India and Pakistan and depended on their goodwill.



Read post # 229 again, carefully


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## RuheTag

Tom M said:


> Still far better than loosing to you on and concede unconditional surrender in record number of days.


ok, keep rejoicing. you have a moment to rejoice now.


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## Corona

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The problem being that Pakistan can't be removed from the equation since it is a party to the dispute that India herself brought to the UNSC. That and the Kashmiris don't want Pakistan to be removed from the equation. At the end of the day the issue is the people of J&K, and regardless of what the Indian position is, the Kashmir and Pakistani position remains the same, as emphasized by the UNSC Resolutions on the dispute.


Hence the impasse. I always felt that if Pakistan approached the UN before the first Kashmir conflict, before deciding to invade Kashmir, a settlement would have been reached. 

And part of the problem is that Pakistan always had a turbulent government that was never able to set a standard on how to solve these issues. Your political history is wrought with coups and upheavals and each new guy has a new idea on how to solve Kashmir quick. A few of them instigated wars hoping for a quick victory. India uses these. In the end, Pakistan's association with Kashmir is always negitive, either starting wars or supporting terrorists. There is a bbc article about this very incident, where it says the attack was carried out by a Pakistan based group. How do you think that factors in the eyes of an outsider?

You can rightly claim that the Indian government will not conduct a plebiscite any time soon, cause who in their right mind will contest in an election that they know they will loose. We can afford to continue with our current position till the ground reality is more favorable to us for a plebiscite. 

I agree that Pakistan cannot be removed from the issue, but when everything about Pakistan is portrayed negitively when it comes to the Kashmir issue, I'm not sure I want to remove Pakistan.

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## Hellfire

jamahir said:


> Another important question is : how did the militants come to know of the convoy. How did the militants plan the attack ??
> 
> Rest in peace, o soldiers.
> 
> And Jaish-e-Mohammed should disband, because its activities are not what the Kashmir solution needs.



Answering specifically you:

Because convoy movement is routine. This is the administrative convoy ferrying troops to and fro from leave/turnover. There is nothing secret and neither is it unknown. Attack can be planned at any stage. A convoy of this size will move at 30 to 40 km/hr in order to ensure safety of civil traffic. A solitary explosives laden vehicle will be able to catch it quite quickly once it enters the 'kill zone'.

All moves, except special moves, are clubbed into a single movement of scores of vehicle.

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## lightoftruth

No Surgical strikes,No Covert ops ,time to punish them openly.

Let them see who they have poked.


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## M. Sarmad

Jackdaws said:


> What do you think is going to happen? Do you think killing 40 odd soldiers in a dastardly attack is going to make these morons overthrow the Indian regime? No, just like innocent Indian soldiers were killed - India will retaliate and kill Pak soldiers. Remember even during Kargil, India shot down an Atlantique aircraft of Pak near Kutch and Pak took India to ICJ and lost the case. So loss of life on this side will result in loss of life on the other. I will not cheer though - I don't think anyone should die because of egos of nations.




Pakistan did not kill those 40 Indian soldiers.
Those soldiers were not 'innocent'. 
Acts of sabotage against the military installations of the _Occupying_ forces and Attacks on_ Legitimate military targets _are not "Terror" attacks.

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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> Read post # 229 again, carefully



No need I guess, until and unless no one has legally demanded India nor initiated any litigation in any of the International courts for non compliance even after long 70 years speaks for itself.

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## Jackdaws

M. Sarmad said:


> Pakistan did not kill those 40 Indian soldiers.
> Those soldiers were not 'innocent'.
> Acts of sabotage against the military installations of the _Occupying_ forces and Attacks on_ Legitimate military targets _are not "Terror" attacks.


Jaish is based in Pak. 

Pak and its ally China have shielded Jaish from being declared a terror organization.

There is no occupying force.


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## randomradio

Corona said:


> Hence the impasse. I always felt that if Pakistan approached the UN before the first Kashmir conflict, before deciding to invade Kashmir, a settlement would have been reached.



No. Kashmir was going to be a free nation. Both India and Pakistan had agreed to that beforehand. But after independence was achieved, Pakistan invaded and inadvertently handed over Kashmir to India 'cause they couldn't hold on to what they had already taken.

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## Corona

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> But they remain the only mutually agreed upon means to resolve the dispute - the government of India committed to them multiple times before eventually reneging on them. They also remain the only moral and just solution to resolve a conflict and dispute over territory - allow the people that belong to the land of J&K to determine freely which country they wish to be a part of. As the self-proclaimed world's largest democracy, India, of all countries, should respect this means of dispute resolution.


Democracy doesn't mean hand something to someone just because they ask for it. 

Self preservation comes first. The Indian democracy is bound by its constitution, not by any random definition of democracy.

Like most democracies, it's not perfect but it works for us.

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## Tom M

RuheTag said:


> ok, keep rejoicing. you have a moment to rejoice now.



I bet we will get one soon. Just keep your fingers crossed.


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## Corona

AHMED85 said:


> Referendum is the only option.[emoji94] [emoji725]


Not really. There has to be something better for both of us.


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## Foxtrot Delta

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz
> 
> is praising a terrorist attack permitted?



Iran doesn't consider kashmiri freedom fighters as terrorits. This was a freedom fighter attack not terrorist attack in iranian saudi turkey chinese and pakistani books


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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> No need I guess, until and unless no one has legally demanded India nor initiated any litigation in any of the International courts for non compliance even after long 70 years speaks for itself.




Kashmir still remains on the agenda of UNSC as an unresolved international dispute.
UNMOGIP is still present in India and Pakistan. the UN refuses to terminate it despite repeated Indian requests.
The UN Resolutions on Kashmir will remain valid regardless of when they were adopted.


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## pahadi

Starlord said:


> You are not providing us anything , Kashmir was never yours to begin with .. It was a disputed land ,and an unfinished business in S.Asia .
> 
> As i said in my earlier post, senseless killing will not help nor stop the violence .


We will give you kashmir, but for that all the rivers flowing through it must dry up, do what ever you want to do afterwards...


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## Jackdaws

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> But they remain the only mutually agreed upon means to resolve the dispute - the government of India committed to them multiple times before eventually reneging on them. They also remain the only moral and just solution to resolve a conflict and dispute over territory - allow the people that belong to the land of J&K to determine freely which country they wish to be a part of. As the self-proclaimed world's largest democracy, India, of all countries, should respect this means of dispute resolution.



Is Spain letting the Catalans have Catalonia? And this in that champion of human rights - the EU. Last I checked the separatist leaders were being tried. 

So India is not going to allow any part to secede.

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## Mustang06

AHMED85 said:


> Referendum is the only option.[emoji94] [emoji725]


Isn't this dog dead?

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## Chhatrapati

RIP brave men. Every drop of your blood will be avenged. 

Draw a conclusion from how many Indians cheered when there was a Terrorist attack in Pakistan where Pak soldiers are killed vs this thread. You get the general mentality of Pakistanis and Indians. 
Learned a lot today.

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## M. Sarmad

Jackdaws said:


> Jaish is based in Pak.
> 
> Pak and its ally China have shielded Jaish from being declared a terror organization.
> 
> There is no occupying force.




The alleged perpetrator was a young man from the Indian Occupied Kashmir
Jaish has been banned in Pakistan since 2002
Indian troops in Kashmir are indeed "Occupation forces".

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## Champion_Usmani

*Soura Srinaga, Kashmiris celeberating attack on CRPF- 42 soldiers dead 2019
*

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Jackdaws said:


> Is Spain letting the Catalans have Catalonia? And this in that champion of human rights - the EU. Last I checked the separatist leaders were being tried.
> 
> So India is not going to allow any part to secede.


Is Catalonia disputed territory in the UN? I'm not suggesting India, or any country, just willy nilly allow any part of their territory to secede, but J&K is unique in that India and Pakistan both agreed to the UNSC Resolutions on resolving the dispute by allowing the people of J&K to determine which country they wished to be a part of.

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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> The alleged perpetrator was a young man from the Indian Occupied Kashmir
> Jaish has been banned in Pakistan since 2002
> Indian troops in Kashmir are indeed "Occupation forces".



Well now try to sell the same around the world. FYI, apart from China no one in the UNSC P5 and an overwhelming majority of other nations of UN don't buy your story about JeM, LeT and the likes, and I guess you know that better.


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## Crixus

There will be a CCS meeting in the morning ..... NIA and NSG teams has already reached Avantipura


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## Sinnerman108

Jackdaws said:


> What do you think is going to happen? Do you think killing 40 odd soldiers in a dastardly attack is going to make these morons overthrow the Indian regime? No, just like innocent Indian soldiers were killed - India will retaliate and kill Pak soldiers. Remember even during Kargil, India shot down an Atlantique aircraft of Pak near Kutch and Pak took India to ICJ and lost the case. So loss of life on this side will result in loss of life on the other. I will not cheer though - I don't think anyone should die because of egos of nations.



NO
You see, Modi doesn't have many options left.
https://indianexpress.com/article/i...ho-paid-whom-congress-on-rafale-deal-5579117/


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## PaklovesTurkiye

Jackdaws said:


> What do you think is going to happen? Do you think killing 40 odd soldiers in a dastardly attack is going to make these morons overthrow the Indian regime? No, just like innocent Indian soldiers were killed - India will retaliate and kill Pak soldiers. Remember even during Kargil, India shot down an Atlantique aircraft of Pak near Kutch and Pak took India to ICJ and lost the case. So loss of life on this side will result in loss of life on the other. I will not cheer though - I don't think anyone should die because of egos of nations.



So, you're saying Pakistanis did this? then there must be reason for Pakistanis to do this...

May be this below tragedy was done by India?

*Nine persons killed, 22 others injured in attack on DIG office in Balochistan’s Loralai*

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/01/f...attack-on-dig-office-in-balochistans-loralai/



Jackdaws said:


> What do you think is going to happen? Do you think killing 40 odd soldiers in a dastardly attack is going to make these morons overthrow the Indian regime? No, just like innocent Indian soldiers were killed - India will retaliate and kill Pak soldiers. Remember even during Kargil, India shot down an Atlantique aircraft of Pak near Kutch and Pak took India to ICJ and lost the case. So loss of life on this side will result in loss of life on the other. I will not cheer though - I don't think anyone should die because of egos of nations.



I agree with rest of your post....Killing on both sides is totally unnecessary....It's all usual unless one takes a hit

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## ziaulislam

Corona said:


> Hence the impasse. I always felt that if Pakistan approached the UN before the first Kashmir conflict, before deciding to invade Kashmir, a settlement would have been reached.
> 
> And part of the problem is that Pakistan always had a turbulent government that was never able to set a standard on how to solve these issues. Your political history is wrought with coups and upheavals and each new guy has a new idea on how to solve Kashmir quick. A few of them instigated wars hoping for a quick victory. India uses these. In the end, Pakistan's association with Kashmir is always negitive, either starting wars or supporting terrorists. There is a bbc article about this very incident, where it says the attack was carried out by a Pakistan based group. How do you think that factors in the eyes of an outsider?
> 
> You can rightly claim that the Indian government will not conduct a plebiscite any time soon, cause who in their right mind will contest in an election that they know they will loose. We can afford to continue with our current position till the ground reality is more favorable to us for a plebiscite.
> 
> I agree that Pakistan cannot be removed from the issue, but when everything about Pakistan is portrayed negitively when it comes to the Kashmir issue, I'm not sure I want to remove Pakistan.


GB was part of combined india not Kashmir and when combined india in the very decided to hand it over the GB rifles revolted

This is what started it..plus during redcliff a few townes in punjab were handover to india to give india a small nudge of area to establish ground routes.
This was obviously due to nehru wife skills with mount batten something that has even seen the large screen


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## Windjammer

Chhatrapati said:


> RIP brave men. Every drop of your blood will be avenged.
> 
> Draw a conclusion from how many Indians cheered when there was a Terrorist attack in Pakistan where Pak soldiers are killed vs this thread. You get the general mentality of Pakistanis and Indians.
> Learned a lot today.


Sure, PDF is the ideal place to judge the Indians.
Check out your own Indian forums and sites to know the mentality of your country fellows....they never leave any runners up.

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## Tom M

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Is Catalonia disputed territory in the UN? I'm not suggesting India, or any country, just willy nilly allow any part of their territory to secede, but J&K is unique in that India and Pakistan both agreed to the UNSC Resolutions on resolving the dispute by allowing the people of J&K to determine which country they wished to be a part of.




To put in simple terms, GOI (irrespective of which party is in power) is more than happy with the *Status Quo *and no talks. Do whatever you may it will remain the same unless anyone can overturn it via force (which is highly unlikely).

P.S: This is not my Opinion, but just the ground reality and I think everyone here know that clearly. So don't blame me.

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## Jackdaws

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Is Catalonia disputed territory in the UN? I'm not suggesting India, or any country, just willy nilly allow any part of their territory to secede, but J&K is unique in that India and Pakistan both agreed to the UNSC Resolutions on resolving the dispute by allowing the people of J&K to determine which country they wished to be a part of.


I know that's your narrative. But India doesn't have the same narrative. No point revisiting what's happened on a zillion other threads.


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## ziaulislam

Mustang06 said:


> Isn't this dog dead?


Depend us mentioning him makes him dead or alive


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## Crixus

Not yet sure NIA has reached Avantipura soon all the details of plans will be out as of now no one can say how it was planned as of now just Jaish a Bhawalpul based terrorist org has claimed the responsibility


PaklovesTurkiye said:


> So, you're saying Pakistanis did this? then there must be reason for Pakistanis to do this...
> 
> May be this below tragedy was done by India?
> 
> *Nine persons killed, 22 others injured in attack on DIG office in Balochistan’s Loralai*
> 
> https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/01/f...attack-on-dig-office-in-balochistans-loralai/


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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> ell now try to sell the same around the world. FYI, apart from China no one in the UNSC P5 and an overwhelming majority of other nations of UN don't buy your story about JeM, LeT and the likes, and I guess you know that better.



I am only stating plain and simple facts.
Kashmir still remains on the agenda of the UN Security Council as an unresolved international dispute and the UN refuses to terminate UNMOGIP. 
Your delusions are not our problem.

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## Jackdaws

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> So, you're saying Pakistanis did this? then there must be reason for Pakistanis to do this...
> 
> May be this below tragedy was done by India?
> 
> *Nine persons killed, 22 others injured in attack on DIG office in Balochistan’s Loralai*
> 
> https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/01/f...attack-on-dig-office-in-balochistans-loralai/
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with rest of your post....Killing on both sides is totally unnecessary....It's all usual unless one takes a hit



Jaish has claimed responsibility. Did the state of Pak do it? Unlikely. Do organizations like Jaish enjoy patronage because of the strategic depth theory in Pak? Yes, they do.

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## Chhatrapati

Windjammer said:


> Sure, PDF is the ideal place to judge the Indians.
> Check out your own Indian forums and sites to know the mentality of your country fellows....they never leave any runners up.


I don't need to check out any place you lot reside in. I just read the comments and that's my perception of you lot.


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## Jackdaws

M. Sarmad said:


> I am only stating plain and simple facts.
> Kashmir still remains on the agenda of the UN Security Council as an unresolved international dispute and the UN refuses to terminate UNMOGIP.
> Your delusions are not our problem.


UNMOGIP only monitors the ceasefire line and violations. It doesn't have any other mandate.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

CyclopS said:


> Similar attacks occur in Iran and Afghanistan which pakistan is blamed for.



Afghanistan doesn't have any government. It is not even a functioning country ..Throw it out.

Iran don't like when we tilt towards Saudis...throw her out as well...The recent attack in Iran was not blamed on Pakistan.

India.....well that's another story...Pakistan blames India too. World knows it

So, in nutshell, you can't make your case convincing enough to believe....

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Vibrio said:


> Answering specifically you:
> 
> Because convoy movement is routine. This is the administrative convoy ferrying troops to and fro from leave/turnover. There is nothing secret and neither is it unknown. Attack can be planned at any stage. A convoy of this size will move at 30 to 40 km/hr in order to ensure safety of civil traffic. A solitary explosives laden vehicle will be able to catch it quite quickly once it enters the 'kill zone'.
> 
> All moves, except special moves, are clubbed into a single movement of scores of vehicle.





CyclopS said:


> True.
> Pakistan, rightly, has a lot of enemies and they try continuously to hit the pakistani state and it is only natural that one large attack will pass through with or without 'big players' and 'complicated tech'.
> 
> Kashmir is not Syria.
> 
> Expertise differs from region to region.
> ISIS in Malaysia differs a boat load from ISIS in Syria and the rest of the middle east.
> 
> Nothing is impossible, but it is MORE POSSIBLE that the attack emanated from pakistan.
> You can't really say a repeat offender is innocent while the victim with a cleaner record is guilty of hurting itself.
> 
> Similar attacks occur in Iran and Afghanistan which pakistan is blamed for.


Cyclops, I'd like to direct your attention to the post by Vibrio (quoted above yours). This is what I've been saying - such a large movement of security forces was never going to remain a secret.

In terms of training, this wasn't some complicated guerrilla style assault on strongly defended target (like GHQ or the training academies) that required a lot of planning, training and coordination between the attackers. This was literally a guy in a vehicle who was ideologically convinced to sacrifice himself in a car bomb, which likely required little more than some courage, possibly drugs (going by the template used by suicide bombers in Pakistan) and the push of a button when close to the target by either the driver or a handler close by, or perhaps there was a pressure switch on the front of the vehicle.

The only 'technical expertise' here was the construction of the VBIED, and that expertise is, unfortunately, widespread because of its use in multiple conflict zones over decades. And I still don't find it feasible that hundreds of KG of explosives were smuggled in through Wagah, and even less likely that they were smuggled over the LoC. The likely source is within India herself.

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## M. Sarmad

Mustang06 said:


> Isn't this dog dead?



You made him an Immortal Martyr and an eternal symbol of Freedom.
As for 'dogs', Kashmiris believe that it's the Indian dogs who should leave Kashmir

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Chhatrapati said:


> RIP brave men. Every drop of your blood will be avenged.
> 
> Draw a conclusion from how many Indians cheered when there was a Terrorist attack in Pakistan where Pak soldiers are killed vs this thread. You get the general mentality of Pakistanis and Indians.
> Learned a lot today.



Don't draw conclusions so early...Visit bharat rakshak to see mentality of your boys


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## M. Sarmad

Jackdaws said:


> UNMOGIP only monitors the ceasefire line and violations. It doesn't have any other mandate.



Means the UN is still relevant and it has a role to play in J&K?
Now compare it with the Indian State propaganda


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## Chhatrapati

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Don't draw conclusions so early...Visit bharat rakshak to see mentality of your boys


Thanks for confirming you are another version of Saffron extremists.

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## Jackdaws

M. Sarmad said:


> Means the UN is still relevant and it has a role to play in J&K?
> Now compare it with the Indian State propaganda


India hasn't denied that a ceasefire line exists. Of course UN has a role to play - that is to ensure that peace is maintained along the LoC. Nothing else.


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## PaklovesTurkiye

Chhatrapati said:


> Thanks for confirming you are another version of Saffron extremists.



What? You are mistaken....even Worst Pakistanis don't come close to those who assassinated their own leader Gandhi


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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> I am only stating plain and simple facts.
> Kashmir still remains on the agenda of the UN Security Council as an unresolved international dispute and the UN refuses to terminate UNMOGIP.
> Your delusions are not our problem.



Well does that change anything legally ??? Can anyone force any parties involved other than request for a peaceful settlement as usual ???? If not nothing is gonna make any difference and we are gonna live with this plain and simple dilusion.


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## Awan68

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> His comment of 'barking' was a response to a personal attack on him from a Pakistani. Neither comments were acceptable. And many people consider these kinds of attacks 'Islamic terrorism', which I disagree with, since in both cases the attacks were driven primarily by ethnic motivations. But that said, given that he belongs to a Muslim country as well, he has a right to his opinion that these attacks are 'Islamic terrorism', as flawed as that opinion might be. The best response would be to point out why these attacks are not 'Islamic terrorism', though in the case of the Iran attack it was terrorism.


1) The motivation behind the attack is Islamic as at the core of Kashnir issue lies religion.
2) Terrorism is acts of voilence that harm civilians, in this case soldiers were attacked which is perfecrly legitimate by every defination of human rights.
3) I consider this a legitimate act of Jihad under Islamic law, we should not bother ourselves with what infidels think nor should we explain ourselves to them.


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## Chhatrapati

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> What? You are mistaken....even Worst Pakistanis don't come close to those who assassinated their own leader Gandhi


I read most of the comments and 99% are happy about this. I don't need to pull Gandhi or Godse here. Neither of them are party in this case. And what people do in an xyz forum neither is the issue.
Just simple read and you get it. And most of foreign members here see this. Keep cheering.


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## PaklovesTurkiye

Jackdaws said:


> Jaish has claimed responsibility. Did the state of Pak do it? Unlikely. Do organizations like Jaish enjoy patronage because of the strategic depth theory in Pak? Yes, they do.



Pakistanis are just too busy inside their own country, in taliban deal and upcoming visit of MBS.

Why we will do this ? 

By blaming others , it is habit of Indians to hide their own mistakes...

Fortunately...no one will take that anymore. You will be counter blamed.


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## litman

pdf was getting boring but for next few days ronak lagi rahay ge or indians ki bajae jay ge.


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## Tom M

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Pakistanis are just too busy inside their own country, in taliban deal and upcoming visit of MBS.
> 
> Why we will do this ?
> 
> By blaming others , it is habit of Indians to hide their own mistakes...
> 
> Fortunately...no one will take that anymore. You will be counter blamed.



As if no one from Pakistan blame foreigners for your own failures as far as terrorism is concerned.


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## litman

Chhatrapati said:


> I read most of the comments and 99% are happy about this. I don't need to pull Gandhi or Godse here. Neither of them are party in this case. And what people do in an xyz forum neither is the issue.
> Just simple read and you get it. And most of foreign members here see this. Keep cheering.


pakistanis are happy because some indian state terrorists who have greatly increased their terrorism in kashmir in recent years have got some punishment. we support the freedom fighters and condemn indian terrorism in kashmir.

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## qamar1990

pakistanis have no reason to do this attack especially when our country wants peace... i got a bad feeling that is a false flag attack for elections by bjp to start something with pakistan

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## Jackdaws

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Pakistanis are just too busy inside their own country, in taliban deal and upcoming visit of MBS.
> 
> Why we will do this ?
> 
> By blaming others , it is habit of Indians to hide their own mistakes...
> 
> Fortunately...no one will take that anymore. You will be counter blamed.


How is it a blame when the organization in Pak has already claimed responsibility??


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## qamar1990

rip to jawans may allah give sabr to their families

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## jamahir

Vibrio said:


> Answering specifically you:
> 
> Because convoy movement is routine. This is the administrative convoy ferrying troops to and fro from leave/turnover. There is nothing secret and neither is it unknown. Attack can be planned at any stage. A convoy of this size will move at 30 to 40 km/hr in order to ensure safety of civil traffic. A solitary explosives laden vehicle will be able to catch it quite quickly once it enters the 'kill zone'.



Okay, thanks.



Vibrio said:


> All moves, except special moves, are clubbed into a single movement of scores of vehicle.



Isn't that unwise ?? I mean there should be appropriate spacing between the buses even if the movement is administrative.

Also, the suicide-bomb vehicle carried 350 Kg of explosives. From where did that come ??

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## Beskar

Sorry not sorry your troops died, bharat. What were they doing there in the first place? Pull out your raping dogs of hell from the valley and there shall be no more violence in the region (case in point; Azad Kashmir) Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, consider the fact that if you weren't raping women and killing teenagers in Kashmir things wouldn't have reached this stage.

Don't blame us for your mistakes, as you sow so shall you reap. Pakistan has nothing to do with this attack. It's orchestrated by the violence and terrorism brought upon the Kashmirs by Indian Armed Forces. Casualties will continue to rise as long as Kashmiri's aren't given their right to self determination.

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## lightoftruth

Let's put it what it is - it's an act of war.

The first strike has happened.

we know who did it.

Its a time for response,contemplation and mourning can wait.

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## qamar1990

CyclopS said:


> Suitable 4 fold punishment is coming soon as it always does.


so ur brave army gonna attack another funeral in kashmir? or kill 100+ students protesting? smh


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## PaklovesTurkiye

Tom M said:


> As if no one from Pakistan blame foreigners for your own failures as far as terrorism is concerned.



Well...Pakistanis can blame foreigners because there are hell lot of foreigners from around the world in our neighborhood (Afghanistan)....Pakistanis can be believed but not Indians


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## Dazzler

Tom M said:


> As if no one from Pakistan blame foreigners for your own failures as far as terrorism is concerned.



We dont blame, instead, we catch them RED HANDED!

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## YeBeWarned

lightoftruth said:


> Let's put it what it is - it's an act of war.
> 
> The first strike has happened.
> 
> we know who did it.
> 
> Its a time for response,contemplation and mourning can wait.



and what will you do when things will escalate ?


On topic, is it a IED attack or Suicide Attack ?


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## Windjammer

Chhatrapati said:


> I don't need to check out any place you lot reside in. I just read the comments and that's my perception of you lot.


No you need to visit where your own country fellows reside.
Yes we all can draw our conclusions by personal experiences and social media is the best source to paint everyone with same brush. No snow white is buried in India mate.


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## jamahir

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> This was literally a guy in a vehicle who was ideologically convinced to sacrifice himself in a car bomb, which likely required little more than some courage, possibly drugs (going by the template used by suicide bombers in Pakistan) and the push of a button when close to the target by either the driver or a handler close by, or perhaps there was a pressure switch on the front of the vehicle.



Yes, drugs are possible.

The Hashisheen ( Assassins ) used to do that too. Belief plus drugs.


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## lightoftruth

Starlord said:


> and what will you do when things will escalate ?


we will deal with them.


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## YeBeWarned

lightoftruth said:


> we will deal with them.



how ? you know both countries is armed to the teeth, and any full scale war will escalate to the level of MAD .

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## PaklovesTurkiye

lightoftruth said:


> Let's put it what it is - it's an act of war.
> 
> The first strike has happened.
> 
> we know who did it.
> 
> Its a time for response,contemplation and mourning can wait.



Getting emotional while responding will be in Pakistan's favor. 

It's time to see why Local Kashmiris hate you

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## Jackdaws

Dazzler said:


> We dont blame, instead, we catch them RED HANDED!


Lol. Except there is no proof.

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## koolio

lightoftruth said:


> Let's put it what it is - it's an act of war.
> 
> The first strike has happened.
> 
> we know who did it.
> 
> Its a time for response,contemplation and mourning can wait.



Where is the damn proof, chest thumping will do you no good?? So does that mean Pakistan should have gone to war with India due to suffering over 70,000 casualties??


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## lightoftruth

Starlord said:


> how ? you know both countries is armed to the teeth, and any full scale war will escalate to the level of MAD .


Will see when that happens,its time to call the bluff.


PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Getting emotional while responding will be in Pakistan's favor.
> 
> It's time to see why Local Kashmiris hate you


Will see what will be in your favor ,nothing emotional ,war is very pragmatic.


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## M. Sarmad

Jackdaws said:


> India hasn't denied that a ceasefire line exists. Of course UN has a role to play - that is to ensure that peace is maintained along the LoC. Nothing else.



Kashmir remains on the agenda of UNSC as an unresolved international dispute and the UN refuses to accept the Indian position and terminate UNMOGIP.

The 'legal' procedure will be:

Pakistan, India and the Kashmiris reach an agreement on the settlement of the Kashmir dispute, then they go back to the UN Security Council to get another resolution to endorse that procedure.

Until then, Kashmir will remain a disputed territory under International Law.

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## YeBeWarned

lightoftruth said:


> Will see when that happens,its time to call the bluff.



sure, this is time from India to do whatever you are proposing .. Try striking Pakistani land or violating Pakistani Air space you will see what happens .

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## lightoftruth

koolio said:


> Where is the damn proof, chest thumping will do you no good?? So does that mean Pakistan should have gone to war with India due to suffering over 70,000 casualties??


Where is Bahawalpur ? it happens to be the headquarters of Jaish E Mohammad no ?



Starlord said:


> sure, this is time from India to do whatever you are proposing .. Try striking Pakistani land or violating Pakistani Air space you will see what happens .


We will try whatever we want,it our time to respond.

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## YeBeWarned

lightoftruth said:


> We will try whatever we want,it our time to respond.



Its your time to give Kashmiri what you promise them ..

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## Awan68

lightoftruth said:


> we will deal with them.


Dear, the time for dealing things has passed, u had 15 yrs when Pakistan was boxed in, u failed.
Our western border is almost secured. You have lost all hope of gaining depth in our backyard.
We will now focus eastward and things are already shaping up by the looks of it.
Good luck "*dealing" *with things from now on.

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## lightoftruth

Starlord said:


> Its your time to give Kashmiri what you promise them ..


No its time to finish the kashmir problem once and for all.


Awan68 said:


> Dear, the time for dealing things has passed, u had 15 yrs when Pakistan was boxed in, u failed.
> Our western border is almost secured. You have lost all hope of gaining depth in our backyard.
> We will now focus eastward and things are already shaping up by the looks of it.
> Good luck "*dealing" *with things from now on.


Then you have nothing to worry about.Sleep tight.


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## YeBeWarned

lightoftruth said:


> No its time to finish the kashmir problem once and for all.



That's not gonna happen anytime soon ..

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## Tom M

Dazzler said:


> We dont blame, instead, we catch them RED HANDED!




And don't forget the following fellow was in our Jail as well, and a rouge country is still providing him safe heaven one of the good reason for the world to consider them Terror supporters and put them in some watchlist.

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## Windjammer

What an irony, when a terrorist attack takes place in Pakistan, the Indians start preaching us about our so called assets biting back but when an attack happens in India, it's always blamed on Pakistan.
Whistling on both sides will not make your problems disappear. Better to address the core issues rather than fooling the public with fake surgical strike stories and capturing Pigeons and blowing up Fishing boats.

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## Awan68

lightoftruth said:


> No its time to finish the kashmir problem once and for all.
> 
> Then you have nothing to worry about.Sleep tight.


Lol


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## Beskar

lightoftruth said:


> Where is Bahawalpur ? it happens to be the headquarters of Jaish E Mohammad no ?
> 
> 
> We will try whatever we want,it our time to respond.



Stop posting kid, you're making a fool of yourself. In the meantime, enjoy the negative-rating surgical strike.

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## lightoftruth

Thunderdome said:


> Stop posting kid, you're making a fool of yourself. In the meantime, enjoy the negative-rating surgical strike.


Little old to be kid,but good luck for coming few days.
please feel free to give this negative or whatever ratings.

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## Jackdaws

M. Sarmad said:


> Kashmir remains on the agenda of UNSC as an unresolved international dispute and the UN refuses to accept the Indian position and terminate UNMOGIP.
> 
> The 'legal' procedure will be:
> 
> Pakistan, India and the Kashmiris reach an agreement on the settlement of the Kashmir dispute, then they go back to the UN Security Council to get another resolution to endorse that procedure.
> 
> Until then, Kashmir will remain a disputed territory under International Law.


Are you saying the UNMOGIP has a mandate beyond the LoC?


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Looks like a false flag ops by India to discredit Pak. Iranian attack was the first one...

Timing and intended outcome say it all....

Anyway outsiders are not that fools to isolate Pak and not to get fruits of their investments there!!! If it wins Modi an election, go for it....

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## Tom M

Starlord said:


> how ? you know both countries is armed to the teeth, and any full scale war will escalate to the level of MAD .



Why do people expect a reply for some proxy attack in a conventional way as in 2008 ??? As said every time, every response will be in kind I guess. Sadly, nothing happens without any reason inside Pakistan as well.



Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Looks like a false flag ops by India to discredit Pak. Iranian attack was the first one...
> 
> Timing and intended outcome say it all....



Just like Turkey kills her own forces just to blame it on PKK and indirectly on U.S.A, huh ??

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## M. Sarmad

Jackdaws said:


> Are you saying the UNMOGIP has a mandate beyond the LoC?



The UN has a mandate beyond the LoC.

Even if Pakistan and India are (somehow) able to resolve the Kashmir Dispute bilaterally, they will have to go to the UNSC for "endorsement".


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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Zee-shaun said:


> A year from now the Uri 2 will be released. We just saw the script today.


part 2 is gonna be called Uri Baba

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## Trango Towers

Tom M said:


> Why do people expect a reply for some proxy attack in a conventional way as in 2008 ??? As said every time, every response will be in kind I guess. Sadly, nothing happens without any reason inside Pakistan as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Just like Turkey kills her own forces just to blame it on PKK and indirectly on U.S.A, huh ??


Tom you celebrate when vermin indian forces kill kids in kashmir. Now the oppressed are celebrating. Enjoy the fruits of your labour. IEDs have entered your arena. NATO lost dues to tyese bad babies in afghanistan

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## PaklovesTurkiye

lightoftruth said:


> war is very pragmatic.



Yes, it is...Hope you join in

1st button got pressed.

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## Sam.

Blood is owed and it shall we reap.

@Nilgiri @Vibrio @padamchen @Joe Shearer

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## Chhatrapati

#Terrorism-has-no-religion  at least the terrorists do.


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## padamchen

Sam. said:


> Blood is owed and it shall we reap.
> 
> @Nilgiri @Vibrio @padamchen @Joe Shearer



Do you see a link with the attack in Iran?

Cheers, Doc

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## Tom M

snow lake said:


> Tom you celebrate when vermin indian forces kill kids in kashmir. Now the oppressed are celebrating. Enjoy the fruits of your labour. IEDs have entered your arena. NATO lost dues to tyese bad babies in afghanistan



Well there is a big, big difference. NATO are alieans to the regions, with their home bases miles apart. But it is our turf, just see how it is crushed. Did IED's which entered your arena decades back force Pakistan army to loose your WOT?? If not it is the same here, rather lot more easy if GOI plan to use brute force like Zarb-e-azb etc.


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## Max

Chhatrapati said:


> #Terrorism-has-no-religion  at least the terrorists do.



pagan terrorists killed 100K Kashmiris, injured lacs for asking the rights they were promised in UN and still trying to act as victim. Victims are Kashmiri not Gangadeshi occupiers.

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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> The UN has a mandate beyond the LoC.
> 
> Even if Pakistan and India are (somehow) able to resolve the Kashmir Dispute bilaterally, they will have to go to the UNSC for "endorsement".



Not exactly. UN is just another global forum. And none of the members need a UN endorsement to enter any bilateral agreement. 

If any such agreement ever happen between our nations (highly unlikely) the UN resolutions etc. Will by default become irrlavent and get removed in due time.


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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> Not exactly. UN is just another global forum. And none of the members need a UN endorsement to enter any bilateral agreement.
> 
> If any such agreement ever happen between our nations (highly unlikely) the UN resolutions etc. Will by default become irrlavent and get removed in due time.



The UN is not just another global forum.

And no, you are wrong. The UN Resolutions cannot become irrelevant and invalid with the passage of time as they are not timebound.

UN endorsement and a fresh UNSC resolution will be needed to terminate UNMOGIP and remove Kashmir from the agenda of UNSC (as an unresolved international dispute) even if Pakistan and India reached an agreement (outside the UN).

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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> The UN is not just another global forum.
> 
> And no, you are wrong. The UN Resolutions cannot become irrelevant and invalid with the passage of time as they are not timebound.
> 
> UN endorsement and a fresh UNSC resolution will be needed to terminate UNMOGIP and remove Kashmir from the agenda of UNSC (as an unresolved international dispute) even if Pakistan and India reached an agreement (outside the UN).



How hard Pakistan may try. UN and UNSC is irrelevant as far as Kashmir dispute is concerned. The reason why all UN members, the P5 including your all weather friend China only request and never demand us to resolve any issues through *bilateral* talks.

So yes all these resolutions or the UNMOGIP will always be there in paper with not much teeth or powers. LOL

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## M. Sarmad

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> ....Killing on both sides is totally unnecessary....It's all usual unless one takes a hit



If the Indians want to save the lives of Indian soldiers, they (i.e the Indian government) must pursue a political solution to Kashmir rather than a military one.



Tom M said:


> How hard Pakistan may try. UN and UNSC is irrelevant as far as Kashmir dispute is concerned. The reason why all UN members, the P5 including your all weather friend China only request and never demand us to resolve any issues through *bilateral* talks.
> 
> So yes all these resolutions or the UNMOGIP will always be there in paper with not much teeth or powers. LOL



As stated earlier, your delusions are not our problem.
The fact remains that the UN refuses to accept the Indian position.

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## Sine Nomine

Sam. said:


> Blood is owed and it shall we reap.


So do we think.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

M. Sarmad said:


> If the Indians want to save the lives of Indian soldiers, they (i.e the Indian government) must pursue a political solution to Kashmir rather than a military one.
> 
> 
> 
> As stated earlier, your delusions are not our problem.
> The fact remains that the UN refuses to accept the Indian position.



Exactly


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## Salza

So Vipin big mouth is put into shame. This Indian general is resulting in deaths of Indian soldiers most than any of his precedessors. Clearly Indian army grip on Kashmir is volatile and unrest among masses is growing every day especially after the killing of Bhurran Wani.


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## Tshering22

This news has been singeing me from within since morning. 

44 of our soldiers have died in an ISIS-style attack. 

This is a never-before seen situation. 

My prayers with the families of CRPF soldiers who died. 

Those 44 were were my brothers. Each of their loss is a personal loss to me and every Indian. 

We need to prepare.



313ghazi said:


> 2500 occupiers in a single convoy - clearly they were planning something.



They weren't troops. 

They are Central Reserve Police Force. Not Indian Army. 

Their role is operating in tense areas and monitor public safety.

Not designed to fight wars.

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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> As stated earlier, your delusions are not our problem.
> The fact remains that the UN refuses to accept the Indian position.



Of-Course UN had long accepted our position after simla agreement. That's why everyone including China use the term *bilateral* since then. 

Moreover, tell me when was the last time UN entertained Pakistan's request as well ?? 

Your Ex NSA had failed in 2014.

*United Nations ignores Pakistan bid to seek intervention on Kashmir dispute*

Even IK government also seem to have failed in convening UN it seems ?? 

https://www.dawn.com/news/1452602


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## American Pakistani

Sam. said:


> Blood is owed and it shall we reap.
> 
> @Nilgiri @Vibrio @padamchen @Joe Shearer




With yet another fake strykkee...a sir ji kal strykee...lol

Pakistan will keep hunting 7 lakh Indian occupier terrorists.


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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> Of-Course UN had long accepted our position after simla agreement. That's why everyone including China use the term *bilateral* since then.



Please post a single statement by any responsible UN official stating that the UN accepts the Indian position/interpretation of Simla.

Here is 'proof of rejection' from their official website:

_In July 1972, India and Pakistan signed an agreement defining a Line of Control in Kashmir which, with minor deviations, followed the same course as the ceasefire line established by the Karachi Agreement in 1949. India took the position that the mandate of UNMOGIP had lapsed, since it related specifically to the ceasefire line under the Karachi Agreement. Pakistan, however, did not accept this position. 

Given the disagreement between the two parties over UNMOGIP's mandate and functions, the Secretary-General's position has been that UNMOGIP could be terminated only by a decision of the Security Council....
https://unmogip.unmissions.org/background




Tom M said:



Moreover, tell me when was the last time UN entertained Pakistan's request as well ??

Click to expand...

_
The UN's reluctance to mediate has nothing to do with the Simla Agreement. The UN made no serious effort to resolve this dispute after the early 1950s. By the late 1950s, the UN was urging Pakistan and India to settle this matter "out of UN" ... Later, the USSR used "the veto" multiple times to avoid discussion on Kashmir in the Security Council. Simla Agreement was signed in 1972 only. So it's not Simla that has made the UN practically irrelevant. The U.N had already been virtually elbowed out of the Kashmir dispute by Russia. However, the Simla Agreement no doubt does give the UN a little bit of "face-saving"...

No UN Sec-Gen, or any responsible official, can say that the UN has no role to play in Kashmir after the signing of Simla agreement, or that the UN Resolutions have become invalid now, or the Simla Agreement supersedes the UN resolutions, as long as Kashmir remains on the agenda of the UN Security Council as an unresolved international dispute, and with the UN observers still present in India and Pakistan to _observe_ ceasefire violations on the disputed border.

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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> Please post a single statement by any responsible UN official stating that the UN accepts the Indian position/interpretation of Simla.
> 
> Here is 'proof of rejection' from their official website:
> 
> _In July 1972, India and Pakistan signed an agreement defining a Line of Control in Kashmir which, with minor deviations, followed the same course as the ceasefire line established by the Karachi Agreement in 1949. India took the position that the mandate of UNMOGIP had lapsed, since it related specifically to the ceasefire line under the Karachi Agreement. Pakistan, however, did not accept this position.
> 
> Given the disagreement between the two parties over UNMOGIP's mandate and functions, the Secretary-General's position has been that UNMOGIP could be terminated only by a decision of the Security Council....
> https://unmogip.unmissions.org/background
> 
> 
> 
> _
> The UN's reluctance to mediate has nothing to do with the Simla Agreement. The UN made no serious effort to resolve this dispute after the early 1950s. By the late 1950s, the UN was urging Pakistan and India to settle this matter "out of UN" ... Later, the USSR used "the veto" multiple times to avoid discussion on Kashmir in the Security Council. Simla Agreement was signed in 1972 only. So it's not Simla that has made the UN practically irrelevant. The U.N had already been virtually elbowed out of the Kashmir dispute by Russia. However, the Simla Agreement no doubt does give the UN a little bit of "face-saving"...
> 
> No UN Sec-Gen, or any responsible official, can say that the UN has no role to play in Kashmir after the signing of Simla agreement, or that the UN Resolutions have become invalid now, or the Simla Agreement supersedes the UN resolutions, as long as Kashmir remains on the agenda of the UN Security Council as an unresolved international dispute, and with the UN observers still present in India and Pakistan to _observe_ ceasefire violations on the disputed border.



And a simple question/answer. Does that change anything?? LOL 

Mark my words, UN won't because UN can't do a jack and we India will decide what to do, others can just sit back and keep on requesting (read begging) for talks.


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## GHALIB

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> Indians want drama before elections as mody is losing. Modi killed his own men for votes.



we will kill all terrorists elections or no elections .


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## Trango Towers

Tom M said:


> Well there is a big, big difference. NATO are alieans to the regions, with their home bases miles apart. But it is our turf, just see how it is crushed. Did IED's which entered your arena decades back force Pakistan army to loose your WOT?? If not it is the same here, rather lot more easy if GOI plan to use brute force like Zarb-e-azb etc.


Huge difference between fighting terrorists and freedom fighters. We shall see.
In the meantime you sit talking and 43 families of indian soldiers mourn. There will be mothers wives and kids involved. But i guess that doesnt matter


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## GHALIB

Yaseen1 said:


> india end is near they should voluntarily withdraw from kashmir otherwise whole india will face such attacks soon



we will abolish article 370 first then people from alover india will settle in kashmir , then we will butcher all terrorists .



snow lake said:


> Huge difference between fighting terrorists and freedom fighters. We shall see.
> In the meantime you sit talking and 43 families of indian soldiers mourn. There will be mothers wives and kids involved. But i guess that doesnt matter



yeah there are scores of baloch freedom fighters .

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## Crystal-Clear

Alternatiiv said:


> In 2017, Iran's leader Ayatollah Khamenei said that Kashmiris are being oppressed. He also urged Muslim world to "openly support people of Kashmir and repudiate oppressors and tyrants who attacked people in Ramadan"
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/world/sto...r-bogey-twice-in-two-weeks-1022519-2017-07-05
> 
> *HIGHLIGHTS*
> 
> Khamenei rakes up kashmir bogey twice in two weeks
> Khamenei went on to declare Kashmir a nation and India a Zionist regime.
> Khamenei tried to barge-in an issue that India considers strictly bilateral
> 
> Probably peeved at the India's first ever prime-ministerial visit to Israel, Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has raked up the Kashmir issue for the second time in two weeks. This time Khamenei has called Iran's judiciary to take up international issues to speak for Muslims of Myanmar and Kashmir.
> 
> -----
> 
> 
> 
> Deaf or blind? It is India who supports Israel, not Pakistan.


you are wasting your time . iranian mullah will do anything if you buy few gallons of oil from them .

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## JonAsad

GHALIB said:


> we will abolish article 370 first then people from alover india will settle in kashmir , then we will butcher all terrorists .
> 
> 
> 
> yeah there are scores of baloch freedom fighters .



You will do sh! T, just prepare big enough grave yard for the soon to come..

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## Tom M

snow lake said:


> Huge difference between fighting terrorists and freedom fighters. We shall see.
> In the meantime you sit talking and 43 families of indian soldiers mourn. There will be mothers wives and kids involved. But i guess that doesnt matter



Meanwhile I will pray for the safety of the kith and kin of the kids, wife's and mother's of your forces along with ours. It does matter and matter a lot. Be safe and good night.

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## Crystal-Clear

Starlord said:


> Will you also call Palestinian terrorist ? Because they are also fighting occupation forces and Israel and west call them terrorist . Why Kashmiri struggle is any different from Palestinian ?


obviously because india buy iranian oil .


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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> And a simple question/answer. Does that change anything?? LOL
> 
> Mark my words, UN won't because UN can't do a jack and we India will decide what to do, others can just sit back and keep on requesting (read begging) for talks.



No one is requesting or begging for talks. 
Just telling you that your position is flawed and it is not accepted by the UN.

The point is: India, the so-called world's largest democracy, has no regard for human rights and its obligations under the UN Resolutions, and that it chooses to act as a rogue authoritarian sate instead when it comes to Kashmir.

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## maximuswarrior

You reap what what you sow.

LOL You should watch the Indian media. The bastards are in a frenzy.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

GHALIB said:


> yeah there are scores of baloch freedom fighters .


Baluchistan is not disputed territory and the various territories and princely states that comprise the modern province of Balochistan joined Pakistan legally, under the rules of partition. There is no comparison to J&K here.

You could compare Kashmir to the occupied Palestinian territories, however.

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## GHALIB

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If the reports are true about a vehicle packed with explosives (someone said 350KG), then the cause is within India. Pakistan and Afghanistan routinely intercept truck loads of explosives being smuggled across their borders in vehicles, but we have a lot more open trade and open borders to allow that to happen. It's almost impossible for a truck load of explosives to be smuggled across the LoC, so these were likely obtained within J&K or India.
> 
> The problem for India going forward will be the dissemination of IED and VBIED expertise across militant groups, especially if the components for the explosives are commonly available materials like fertilizer etc.


whosoever did it will be punished .


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## Tom M

JonAsad said:


> You will do sh! T, just prepare big enough grave yard for the soon to come..



Well every favor will be reciprocated to the deserving once in kind. It's just a matter of apt time. And I guess they too should prepare a graveyard big enough.

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## maximuswarrior

GHALIB said:


> whosoever did it will be punished .



You can’t do shit. Probably another fake surgical strike...


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## GHALIB

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Baluchistan is not disputed territory and the various territories and princely states that comprise the modern province of Balochistan joined Pakistan legally, under the rules of partition. There is no comparison to J&K here.
> 
> You could compare Kashmir to the occupied Palestinian territories, however.



for you it is not , but for freedom fighters it is a disputed territory.


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## maximuswarrior

Tom M said:


> Well every favor will be reciprocated to the deserving once in kind. It's just a matter of apt time. And I guess they too should prepare a graveyard big enough.



We will see about that. Before handing out threats it is better you take preparations of your own.


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## GHALIB

maximuswarrior said:


> You can’t do shit. Probably another fake surgical strike...



ha ha ha you are unable to forget last one .


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## maximuswarrior

GHALIB said:


> ha ha ha you are unable to forget last one .



LOL the one that never took place.

Come and face us. We will slice you into pieces and feed you to the dogs.

This is inevitable. When your forces rape and kill Kashmiris this is going to be the reaction. LOL blaming Pakistan or Timbuktu won’t make an iota of difference.

As for the threats do something if you can. We are waiting.

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## Rusty

GHALIB said:


> we will abolish article 370 first then people from alover india will settle in kashmir , then we will butcher all terrorists .
> .
> 
> 
> yeah there are scores of baloch freedom fighters .



Under international law, population replacement is called genocide.

Of course you fascists see nothing wrong with genocide

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

GHALIB said:


> for you it is not , but for freedom fighters it is a disputed territory.


They are armed militias fighting against elected governments in territory that is internationally recognized as Pakistani territory and therefore violating the laws and constitution of Pakistan and therefore criminals and, based on their tactics, terrorists.

The same does not apply to J&K or Palestine because in both cases the UN considers those territories disputed.

I wouldn't call the Naxals or Maoists or LTTE or Jundullah in Iran 'Freedom fighters'.

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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> No one is requesting or begging for talks.
> Just telling you that your position is flawed and it is not accepted by the UN.
> 
> The point is: India, the so-called world's largest democracy, has no regard for human rights and its obligations under the UN Resolutions, and that it chooses to act as a rogue authoritarian sate instead when it comes to Kashmir.




UN, who??? 

Our country our rules. Others can either accept it or not. It ain't gonna make an IOTA of difference in our stated position. And there is no force in this world that can force a solution on the resolve of 1.3 + Billion.

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## Trango Towers

Tom M said:


> Meanwhile I will pray for the safety of the kith and kin of the kids, wife's and mother's of your forces along with ours. It does matter and matter a lot. Be safe and good night.


U know thats the best post you have ever done.


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## Tom M

maximuswarrior said:


> We will see about that. Before handing out threats it is better you take preparations of your own.



Did it sound like a threat to you?? Well if you think so, I'm sorry. 

FYI, if I'm not wrong, our rate of causlities over the years are way too low compared to other nations who are working hard in WOT. That it self speaks about our preprations.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Starlord said:


> Will you also call Palestinian terrorist ? Because they are also fighting occupation forces and Israel and west call them terrorist . Why Kashmiri struggle is any different from Palestinian ?


His use of the word 'Islamic Terrorism' is making me wonder if he's Iranian (maybe a pseudo-liberal Iranian who doesn't follow Islam). You typically don't hear this phrase 'Islamic terrorism' from most Muslims.

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## Chakar The Great

What do people expect when occupied forces have killed hundreds and thousands of innocent men women and children in Kashmir. This is just the beginning , if India doesn't go for dialogue now the fire will soon reach New Delhi and Mumbai.

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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> UN, who???
> 
> Our country our rules. Others can either accept it or not. It ain't gonna make an IOTA of difference in our stated position. And there is no force in this world that can force a solution on the resolve of 1.3 + Billion.



We know You disregard the UN/International law and pursue an aggressive military solution to Kashmir (instead of a political one). 

But do you really think that Indian occupation forces in Kashmir will face no resistance/opposition from the locals for the state terrorism Indian troops have unleashed upon the local Kashmiris (since 1989)??

You yourself are responsible for the death of your soldiers and you have no one else to blame.

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## Tom M

Chakar The Great said:


> What do people expect when occupied forces have killed hundreds and thousands of innocent men women and children in Kashmir. This is just the beginning , if India doesn't go for dialogue now the fire will soon reach New Delhi and Mumbai.



And FYI, fire can spread in either or any directions. Please don't expect the fire to burn your neighbours house while we live in the same apartment complex.


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## Chakar The Great

Tom M said:


> And FYI, fire can spread in either or any directions. Please don't expect the fire to burn your neighbours house while we are in the same apartment complex.



Oh yea? You should have thought that before sending Kulbhushan Yadev to Pakistan or before hiring terroist to attack Chines Consulate in Karachi or Kill innocent school Children in Peshawar. Now when your house is burning and your coward men are dying you come here to threat us?? 

Too little too late my friend

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## GHALIB

snow lake said:


> Couple of days back indians were celebrating the death of freedom fighters.
> 
> Gentlemen now IED's have arrived indian forces will be in a big poop.
> IED's destroyed nato


we will kill sufficient number of terrorists .you will be satisfied by the numbers .



Rusty said:


> Under international law, population replacement is called genocide.
> 
> Of course you fascists see nothing wrong with genocide



indian citizens are free to move to any place safeguard india and it's borders .


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## M. Sarmad

GHALIB said:


> we will kill sufficient number of terrorists .



And the Kashmiri Freedom Fighters will kill more Sarkari Terrorists in retaliation... And this cycle of violence will continue...


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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> We know You disregard the UN/International law and pursue an aggressive military solution to Kashmir.
> 
> But do you really think that Indian occupation forces in Kashmir will face no resistance/opposition from the locals for the terrorism Indian state troops have unleashed upon the local Kashmiris since 1989??
> 
> You yourself are responsible for the death of your soldiers.



Since you mentioned the exact year of the start of militancy in Kashmir. Ain't that a strange coincedance that it happened in tandem with the withdrew of Soviet forces from Afghanistan, huh ?? 

Again, if I may me ask you one more thing. Who is responsible for the death of lot more forces and civilians Inside Pakistan ??

And what did Pakistan do in response ?? Similarly, GOI is also doing what they must do. Period.


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## Rusty

GHALIB said:


> we will kill sufficient number of terrorists .you will be satisfied by the numbers .
> 
> 
> 
> indian citizens are free to move to any place safeguard india and it's borders .




You are just butt hurt right now so you are not making sense. Get off the internet for a little bit and come back when you are a bit more composed.


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## GHALIB

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL the one that never took place.
> 
> Come and face us. We will slice you into pieces and feed you to the dogs.
> 
> This is inevitable. When your forces rape and kill Kashmiris this is going to be the reaction. LOL blaming Pakistan or Timbuktu won’t make an iota of difference.
> 
> As for the threats do something if you can. We are waiting.



your bravery is only in supporting suicide bomber terrorists ,

we know how your brave lions surrendered in front of indian soldiers in 1971 .

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## Tom M

Rusty said:


> Under international law, population replacement is called genocide.
> 
> Of course you fascists see nothing wrong with genocide



No buddy they will be called IDP's. I bet this word is nothing new for any Pakistani.

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## GHALIB

Rusty said:


> You are just butt hurt right now so you are not making sense. Get off the internet for a little bit and come back when you are a bit more composed.



supporting terrorists brings disastrous results you know better with 80000 pakistanis killed.


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## Tom M

Chakar The Great said:


> Oh yea? You should have thought that before sending Kulbhushan Yadev to Pakistan or before hiring terroist to attack Chines Consulate in Karachi or Kill innocent school Children in Peshawar. Now when your house is burning and your coward men are dying you come here to threat us??
> 
> Too little too late my friend



And you must be naive to think all of a sudden everything has just become a one sided game. Sadly it ain't over yet for everyone involved buddy.


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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> Since you mentioned the exact year of the start of militancy in Kashmir. Ain't that a strange coincedance that it happened in tandem with the withdrew of Soviet forces from Afghanistan, huh ??
> 
> Again, if I may me ask you one more thing. Who is responsible for the death of lot more forces and civilians Inside Pakistan ??
> 
> And what did Pakistan do in response ?? Similarly, GOI is also doing what they must do. Period.



The Kashmiri uprising of 1989 was indigenous. Read up on it.

And faulty comparison. Pakistan is facing terrorist attacks inside its territory. You OTOH are carrying out state terrorism against Kashmiris, in a territory that does no not belong to you under International law. You are the aggressors, not the victims

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## Rusty

GHALIB said:


> supporting terrorists brings disastrous results you know better with 80000 pakistanis killed.


So what kind of results has it brought India

You just lost 40 some odd people just today.

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## Tom M

M. Sarmad said:


> The Kashmiri uprising of 1989 was indigenous. Read up on it.
> 
> And faulty comparison. Pakistan is facing terrorist attacks inside its territory. You OTOH are carrying out state terrorism against Kashmiris, in a territory that does no not belong to you under International law.



Which law are you talking about?? I agree there is an outstanding dispute. 

But their ain't any such international law that say Kashmir doesn't belong to us. We hold it, we administer it, we manage it. So it's is ours.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Tom M said:


> Ain't that a strange coincedance that it happened in tandem with the withdrew of Soviet forces from Afghanistan, huh ??


The perceived Afghan Mujahideen victory over a Super Power likely emboldened many who perhaps did not see a violent struggle being fruitful.

And with the anti-Soviet struggle in Afghanistan over, there were surplus 'resources' and certainly no dearth of individuals well versed in waging guerrilla warfare that Kashmiris could tap into.

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## Dazzler

Tom M said:


> And don't forget the following fellow was in our Jail as well, and a rouge country is still providing him safe heaven one of the good reason for the world to consider them Terror supporters and put them in some watchlist.



Not a grain of evidence against him, else he wouldve been hanged.

What about that Ajmal Kasab a.k.a. Amar Singh guy. I heard he had an Indian domicile?

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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> Which law are you talking about?? I agree there is an outstanding dispute.
> 
> But their ain't any such international law that say Kashmir doesn't belong to us. We hold it, we administer it, we manage it. So it's is ours.



Under International law, Indian admission into the State of Jammu and Kashmir is *provisional*. India has taken over under the UNCIP Resolutions ONLY to assist in establishing a representative provisional administration at Srinagar, to work for creating a conducive atmosphere for holding a free and fair Plebiscite for all the people of the State of Jammu and Kashmir. Pakistan as a party to the dispute administers two administrations of the State on its side of the cease-fire line.

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## Rusty

Tom M said:


> Which law are you talking about?? I agree there is an outstanding dispute.
> 
> But their ain't any such international law that say Kashmir doesn't belong to us. We hold it, we administer it, we manage it. So it's is ours.



The treaty that you signed with the Maharaja says that you can't legally claim kashmir until you hold a referendum. 

So which law? It's actually Indian law that says you don't own it until a vote by Kashmiris


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## Tom M

Rusty said:


> So what kind of results has it brought India
> 
> You just lost 40 some odd people just today.



Well just got and info. over FB from a Delhi based friend. Not sure about the authenticity or credibility of that. But he heard that the government is planning reopening of earlier closed interrogation centers like PAPA-II etc. and intensfy local intelligence operations.



M. Sarmad said:


> Under International law, Indian admission into the State of Jammu and Kashmir is *provisional*. India has taken over under the UNCIP Resolutions ONLY to assist in establishing a representative provisional administration at Srinagar, to work for creating a conducive atmosphere for holding a free and fair Plebiscite for all the people of the State of Jammu and Kashmir. Pakistan as a party to the dispute administers two administrations of the State on its side of the cease-fire line.



Ironically it doesn't state any timeline /deadline for its implementation. So yes will be keep managing it provisionally.

And there is little anyone can do. Especially the one who had tried multiple times tried to landgrab Kashmir via force and change the status unilaterally with complete disregard to the UNSC resolutions for a peaceful settlement.



Dazzler said:


> Not a grain of evidence against him, else he wouldve been hanged.
> 
> What about that Ajmal Kasab a.k.a. Amar Singh guy. I heard he had an Indian domicile?



Well with this attitude and approach, I'm waiting for Feb17 and subsequently for Sept 2019. No wonder someone is some list for terror financing. 

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/02/p...-in-balance-as-fatf-meets-in-paris-on-feb-17/


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## graphican

Inside job by Indians. Saudi crown prince is visiting Pakistan and will arrive in India later. India wants him to condemn Kashmir libertarian and deny him backing the liberation of territory.

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## Rusty

Tom M said:


> Well just got and info. over FB from a Delhi based friend. Not sure about the authenticity or credibility of that. But he heard that the government is planning reopening of earlier closed interrogation centers like PAPA-II etc. and intensfy local intelligence operations.
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically it doesn't state any timeline /deadline for its implementation. So yes will be keep managing it provisionally.
> 
> And there is little anyone can do. Especially the one who had tried multiple times tried to landgrab Kashmir via force and change the status unilaterally with complete disregard to the UNSC resolutions for a peaceful settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> Well with this attitude and approach, I'm waiting for Feb17 and subsequently for Sept 2019. No wonder someone is some list for terror financing.
> 
> https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/02/p...-in-balance-as-fatf-meets-in-paris-on-feb-17/


Again, you people need to learn from history.

You have 2 choices.
1. Complete and utter genocide of the Kashmiris (it's telling that so many of you people want to go this route)

2. Eventually give in to the people's desire for self determination.

It might take 5 years or 100, but India's position is not tenable.

Even Ireland got it's freedom after hundreds of years of subjugation.

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## 313ghazi

Tom M said:


> Since you mentioned the exact year of the start of militancy in Kashmir. Ain't that a strange coincedance that it happened in tandem with the withdrew of Soviet forces from Afghanistan, huh ??
> 
> Again, if I may me ask you one more thing. Who is responsible for the death of lot more forces and civilians Inside Pakistan ??
> 
> And what did Pakistan do in response ?? Similarly, GOI is also doing what they must do. Period.



Learn the name Maqbool Bhat. You hung him and the freedom movement militarised. Until then, even from the time of Dogra - our movement remained political only.

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## M. Sarmad

Tom M said:


> Ironically it doesn't state any timeline /deadline for its implementation. So yes will be keep managing it provisionally.
> 
> And there is little anyone can do. Especially the one who had tried multiple times tried to landgrab Kashmir via force and change the status unilaterally with complete disregard to the UNSC resolutions for a peaceful settlement.



There is a well established legal maxim:
_Commodum Ex Injuria Sua Nemo Habere Debet _
(a wrongdoer should not be enabled by law to take any advantage from his actions).

India has no moral or legal right to claim Kashmir when India itself took the dispute to the UN and agreed that the final accession of Kashmir to India or Pakistan would be decided in accordance with the will of Kashmiris in a plebiscite (under UN auspices), but then it refused to accept any demilitarization proposal made by the UN Commission(India rejected 11 demilitarization proposals in total), and instead of trying to create a conducive atmosphere for holding a free and fair Plebiscite (something it was supposed to do), decided to use brute force to annex Kashmir illegally.


You are the 'agressors' in J&K..
Stop pretending to be 'the victims'

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## Crystal-Clear

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Coming from a person who's country is supporter of Hizabullah.


je is most probably an indian pretending to be iranian.



Crixus said:


> Its Jaish who had claimed the responsibility and Jaish is banned by Pakistan also and you are right they operates from Bhawalpur Punjab Pakistan


yawns . dont expect us to believe in indian bullshit . if you have the proofs of our involvement go to icj .


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## YeBeWarned

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> His use of the word 'Islamic Terrorism' is making me wonder if he's Iranian (maybe a pseudo-liberal Iranian who doesn't follow Islam). You typically don't hear this phrase 'Islamic terrorism' from most Muslims.



he might be one of those who will convert to Christianity to get Asylum ..


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## Crystal-Clear

Chhatrapati said:


> #Terrorism-has-no-religion  at least the terrorists do.


no need to drag modi here.


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## Crixus

Favour will be returned with interest .... you are free to yawn


Crystal-Clear said:


> je is most probably an indian pretending to be iranian.
> 
> 
> yawns . dont expect us to believe in indian bullshit . if you have the proofs of our involvement go to icj .


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## Rafi

J&K celebrating says it all.

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## American Pakistani

Crixus said:


> Favour will be returned with interest .... you are free to yawn



Yaar kab tak bhonktay raho gay? Kabhi tou aao khushbu lag k.

Pakistan will always crush 7 lakh Indian occupier terrorists.

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## Crixus

last when we came we changed your geography ..... this time whole Pak might turned up in desert ...... be thankful to god that you are in US


American Pakistani said:


> Yaar kab tak bhonktay raho gay? Kabhi tou aao khushbu lag k.
> 
> Pakistan will always crush 7 lakh Indian occupier terrorists.


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## Rafi

Crixus said:


> last when we came we changed your geography ..... this time whole Pak might turned up in desert ...... be thankful to god that you are in US



Cry me a river.


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## YeBeWarned

Crixus said:


> last when we came we changed your geography ..... this time whole Pak might turned up in desert ...... be thankful to god that you are in US



what you are proposing is nuclear War, cause only than you can turn Pakistan into desert , but have you thought of your own people who will die by the millions and suffers .


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## Crixus

Yes thats one way , hopefully Indian govt will dump the useless no first use policy .... 
but my indication is on other ways to make desert


Starlord said:


> what you are proposing is nuclear War, cause only than you can turn Pakistan into desert , but have you thought of your own people who will die by the millions and suffers .


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## YeBeWarned

Crixus said:


> Yes thats one way , hopefully Indian govt will dump the useless no first use policy ....
> but my indication is on other ways to make desert



well it won't make a difference if your govt dump the no first use policy ..
You can stop Pakistan's water which you will eventually have to open cause it will be against the International rule , You can attack Pakistan using conventional forces but you don't have enough to completely over come Pakistan Armed forces .

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## Crixus

Believe me man I hate to talk and write about human lives like this may be policy makers are sane and will take some right decisions beyond emotions.......


Starlord said:


> well it won't make a difference if your govt dump the no first use policy ..
> You can stop Pakistan's water which you will eventually have to open cause it will be against the International rule , You can attack Pakistan using conventional forces but you don't have enough to completely over come Pakistan Armed forces .


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## Verve

So the awaited false flag has occurred!

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## YeBeWarned

Crixus said:


> Believe me man I hate to talk and write about human lives like this may be policy makers are sane and will take some right decisions beyond emotions.......



with BJP in power , I doubt a right decision will come out but rather a extreme and emotional one .


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## Crystal-Clear

Crixus said:


> Favour will be returned with interest .... you are free to yawn


ok ..


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## Jackdaws

Looks like Pak Govt. has already condemned the terror attacks. Must be a first.


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## AUz

Crixus said:


> Favour will be returned with interest .... you are free to yawn





We were butchering you at will throughout the 90’s. And IA couldn’t do jack sh*t.

It was only after the super power US created a weak spot on ur Western border that you were able to do something (that too, thanks to TTP which formed due to US invasion. You just got lucky)

So please, keep ur pu$$y rants to yourself. You are an indian...indians don’t have the capacity or balls to do anything against us. We have been doing it for DECADES. 

Sit down 

One strike, 50 soldiers butchered. Damn!

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## Crixus

You are right we cant kill a single Pakistani soldier ... your army may be the only Army in the history which denied to take back the dead bodies of their own soldiers in 90's and waited for 10 years to distribute the bravery awards .... you are right ... we dont have capacity or bravery to do that


AUz said:


> We were butchering you at will throughout the 90’s. And IA couldn’t do jack sh*t.
> 
> It was only after the super power US created a weak spot on ur Western border that you were able to do something (that too, thanks to TTP which formed due to US invasion. You just got lucky)
> 
> So please, keep ur pu$$y rants to yourself. You are an indian...indians don’t have the capacity or balls to do anything against us. We have been doing it for DECADES.
> 
> Sit down
> 
> One strike, 50 soldiers butchered. Damn!


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## JonAsad

Tom M said:


> Well every favor will be reciprocated to the deserving once in kind. It's just a matter of apt time. And I guess they too should prepare a graveyard big enough.


In case the thought doesn't cross your mind what happened to your people was a reciprocal act. 
You commit atrocities to the people what do you expect in return Flowers?


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## Crixus

The India's Pakistan policy has nothing to do with the Party in power it makes no diff if its BJP or Congress .... go through the history and you will find Congress remained more hostile towards Pakistan 


Starlord said:


> with BJP in power , I doubt a right decision will come out but rather a extreme and emotional one .

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## M. Sarmad

Jackdaws said:


> Looks like Pak Govt. has already condemned the terror attacks. Must be a first.



Pakistan condemns all acts of violence in IoK, no matter who the perpetrators are. And no, it was not a "terror attack"



_The attack in Pulwama in the Indian Occupied Jammu & Kashmir is a matter of grave concern. 

We have always condemned heightened acts of violence in the Valley. 

We strongly reject any insinuation by elements in the Indian government and media circles that seek to link the attack to the State of Pakistan without investigations. _
http://www.mofa.gov.pk/pr-details.php?mm=NzU5Mw,,

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## American Pakistani

Crixus said:


> last when we came we changed your geography ..... this time whole Pak might turned up in desert ...... be thankful to god that you are in US



Last time you only came with fake sir ji kal strykee, before that in 2008 you only b1tched, same thing in 2002, in 1999 you were slaughtered like a chicken, before that in 71 you won after taking advantage of civil war and a land cut off completely with defense of only 34k troops, in 65 again you were crushed, and in 48 huge chunk of Kashmir was liberated, before that in 47 you were thrashed out of Pakistan. So stop b1tching like a dehati aurat.

I can change flags to Argentina if I want, so? The point is how are you so sure if I'm in US, UK, Pakistan, Europe, MiddleEast, etc?

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## Jackdaws

American Pakistani said:


> Last time you only came with fake sir ji kal strykee, before that in 2008 you only b1tched, same thing in 2002, in 1999 you were slaughtered like a chicken, before that in 71 you won after taking advantage of civil war and a land cut off completely with defense of only 34k troops, in 65 again you were crushed, and in 48 huge chunk of Kashmir was liberated, before that in 47 you were thrashed out of Pakistan. So stop b1tching like a dehati aurat.
> 
> I can change flags to Argentina if I want, so? The point is how are you so sure if I'm in US, UK, Pakistan, Europe, MiddleEast, etc?


Except in the real world -

1999. Your PM went running to US to beg Clinton to stop the Indians. 

1971 - land cut of completely? Lol - it housed more than 50% of your population. 

1965 - is that why you went running to the UN asking for a ceasefire? Lol - must be a first in history. 

1948 - after India entered into the fray, you only lost territory. But that should not be a surprise.



Rafi said:


> Cry me a river.


Soon that might be the only river you can access

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## Rafi

Jackdaws said:


> Except in the real world -
> 
> 1999. Your PM went running to US to beg Clinton to stop the Indians.
> 
> 1971 - land cut of completely? Lol - it housed more than 50% of your population.
> 
> 1965 - is that why you went running to the UN asking for a ceasefire? Lol - must be a first in history.
> 
> 1948 - after India entered into the fray, you only lost territory. But that should not be a surprise.
> 
> 
> Soon that might be the only river you can access



It's all good, we all gotta die some day. You look death in the face and tell it to go fck itself

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## Tom M

American Pakistani said:


> Last time you only came with fake sir ji kal strykee, before that in 2008 you only b1tched, same thing in 2002, in 1999 you were slaughtered like a chicken, before that in 71 you won after taking advantage of civil war and a land cut off completely with defense of only 34k troops, in 65 again you were crushed, and in 48 huge chunk of Kashmir was liberated, before that in 47 you were thrashed out of Pakistan. So stop b1tching like a dehati aurat.
> 
> I can change flags to Argentina if I want, so? The point is how are you so sure if I'm in US, UK, Pakistan, Europe, MiddleEast, etc?



Well what happened in 2002 or 2008 ??? A proxy attack right ??

Why do you guy's expect the adversary to respond conventionally to any proxy strikes. And please don't be under the impression that you were safe during the period from 2000 through 2019.

Regarding 1999, boasting about sitting on top of a higher altitude and taking about that capability as your bravery, huh ??? Well we are doing the same with just a hand full of soldiers in Siachen for decades now, and you army of braves couldn't do a Jack till now.

1965, indeed we were crushed. But the irony was that Mr. ZA Butto was the one crying loud and clear in UNSC.






In 1971, you had a great disadvantage. Still the army of the brave never gave a reasonable fight to begin with. They just surrendered in a matter of record days.

Now what are you boasting about ??? Did Pakistan managed to achieve any of your objectives other than initiating any war without any results. India at-least managed to dismember our enemy and is still sitting on top of a glacier which her enemy claims in full. 



Starlord said:


> well it won't make a difference if your govt dump the no first use policy ..
> You can stop Pakistan's water which you will eventually have to open cause it will be against the International rule , You can attack Pakistan using conventional forces but you don't have enough to completely over come Pakistan Armed forces .



There is a fourth viable and very cheap option. Just wait for that.


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## The Accountant

Tom M said:


> Well what happened in 2002 or 2008 ??? A proxy attack right ??
> 
> Why do you guy's expect the adversary to respond conventionally to any proxy strikes. And please don't be under the impression that you were safe during the period from 2000 through 2019.
> 
> Regarding 1999, boasting about sitting on top of a higher altitude and taking about that capability as your bravery, huh ??? Well we are doing the same with just a hand full of soldiers in Siachen for decades now, and you army of braves couldn't do a Jack till now.
> 
> 1965, indeed we were crushed. But the irony was that Mr. ZA Butto was the one crying loud and clear in UNSC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1971, you had a great disadvantage. Still the army of the brave never gave a reasonable fight to begin with. They just surrendered in a matter of record days.
> 
> Now what are you boasting about ??? Did Pakistan managed to achieve any of your objectives other than initiating any war without any results. India at-least managed to dismember our enemy and is still sitting on top of a glacier which her enemy claims in full.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a fourth viable and very cheap option. Just wait for that.


If u r right then go back to 1948 when we drag u outside the azad kashmir ...

5 times bigger country is worried so much about us is the summary of how brave we are ...

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## Hellfire

jamahir said:


> Isn't that unwise ?? I mean there should be appropriate spacing between the buses even if the movement is administrative.




There are two peculiarities that have been seen over the past decade ever since the militancy was relatively curbed after 2006:

1. The increased pressure of the political class to do away with the necessary imposition of the prevalent rules and regulations under various laws, both civil and military, wherein no civil vehicle was either allowed to cross a military/paramilitary convoy, come in between them or approach them within a certain limit. This was predominantly due to the existence of two lane roads in majority of locations and slow moving speed of convoys causing 'delay' in traffic movement.

2. The permissiveness of the leadership, both political and military, of permitting civil vehicles from entering into the convoys and at times, leading to incidents of road traffic accidents as military vehicles are heavy carriers and the inter-se gap is usually 50 meters at least, and where a small car tends to quickly come and get in between. This, the gap, is meant to mitigate the fallout of a potential IED/suicide attack. But with the movement of civil vehicles suddenly in between the convoy vehicles, at times the gap gets reduced or increased, depending on traffic volume. This situation is easily exploited. 

The failure to uphold the rules and regulations as also the SOPs was bound to have some repercussions someday. And anyways, one can not do much in such kinds of attacks if you do not have luck on your side and SOPs are not being adhered to.

It is the responsibility of both the leadership at CRPF and the political class, that needs to be questioned right now. 



jamahir said:


> Also, the suicide-bomb vehicle carried 350 Kg of explosives. From where did that come ??



There is tonnes of explosives and ammunition lying buried in forests, stashed by 'couriers' over the period of time. It is neigh impossible to ensure 100% check on 'infiltration' due to the peculiarities of the terrain and the flora in the region. A single courier, moving/crawling very slowly over hours, can remain virtually undetected even with the best of conditions permitting extensive use of NVGs, TIs and Unattended Ground Sensors. And here we are talking of thickly vegetated forests and hilly tracts with plenty of crevices and caves.

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## Tom M

The Accountant said:


> If u r right then go back to 1948 when we drag u outside the azad kashmir ...
> 
> 5 times bigger country is worried so much about us is the summary of how brave we are ...



Well we are afraid of *Aedes aegypti, *why a bite from them can prove fatal sometimes. But does that make them superior than human beings ??? Well I don't think so. For us and most of the world Pakistan has no value more than that of an Aedes (a spoiler). Nothing else.


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## Hellfire

Sam. said:


> Blood is owed and it shall we reap.
> 
> @Nilgiri @Vibrio @padamchen @Joe Shearer



Oh that is a given. But the Govt has boxed itself into a corner over the political ownership of the strikes back in 2016. If it does not respond, it pays a political price and incurs significant costs in the arena of security for the nation. If it responds covertly, it still pays a political cost as public perception will be of no action. If it reacts overtly, it risks a war.

I suspect we may see an overt reaction if at all, well publicized but below the threshold wherein Pakistan will be forced to react, an act that Pakistan can publicly deny. The present weather conditions in Kashmir preclude an ingress to strike at launch pads, and anyways, that will be expected. Perhaps the use of Heron TP finally?

Let us see what comes up.

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## The Accountant

Tom M said:


> Well we are afraid of *Aedes aegypti, *why a bite from them can prove fatal sometimes. But does that make them superior than human beings ??? Well I don't think so. For us and most of the world Pakistan has no value more than that of an Aedes (a spoiler). Nothing else.



Yes u r the nation who thing that snakes rat and elephants cow and monkey are supperior to you so offcourse a genetically better people cant be important to u ...

By the way u didnt answere to whom u lost azad kashmir ?



The Accountant said:


> If u r right then go back to 1948 when we drag u outside the azad kashmir ...
> 
> 5 times bigger country is worried so much about us is the summary of how brave we are ...


By the way dont talk about the world as the world super power has recently accepted that Pakistan was right about Afghanistan and India's investment in Afghanistan is going into shit hole ...

So world is with Pakistan and its Indians who were kicked by world in the region ...


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## Tom M

The Accountant said:


> Yes u r the nation who thing that snakes rat and elephants cow and monkey are supperior to you so offcourse a genetically better people cant be important to u ...
> 
> *By the way u didnt answere to whom u lost azad kashmir ?*



Superior race ??? LOL, that maybe the reason why an entire nation is taking a nosedive towards the south for the last few decades now. 

Oh yeah it was India who invaded Kingdom of Kashmir and Pakistan who liberated a small strip called Azad Kashmir back in 1947-48. LOL


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## The Accountant

Tom M said:


> Superior race ??? LOL, that maybe the reason why an entire nation is taking a nosedive towards the south for the last few decades now.
> 
> Oh yeah it was India who invaded Kingdom of Kashmir and Pakistan who liberated a small strip called Azad Kashmir back in 1947-48. LOL



Who has the document of annexation ? Is it Pakistan ? You are not only warshiper of animals but your history is also taught to you by some monkey ... lolz ...

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## Tom M

The Accountant said:


> Who has the document of annexation ? Is it Pakistan ? You are not only warshiper of animals but your history is also taught to you by some monkey ... lolz ...



Well the entire world know who had the ambition of land grab, the entire Kingdom of Kashmir back in 1947 and how good it ended up for them. But if you want to claim that as a petty success so be it, as usual Pakistan succeeded we lost. Happy now ???


----------



## AUz

Crixus said:


> You are right we cant kill a single Pakistani soldier ... your army may be the only Army in the history which denied to take back the dead bodies of their own soldiers in 90's and waited for 10 years to distribute the bravery awards .... you are right ... we dont have capacity or bravery to do that




Lmfaooooo 

Literally every single army on planet “denies” the existence of their solder when their fighting covert wars get caught. We accepted our Shaheeds with pride in 65, 71 wars. Kargil was not a full-fledged open conflict. It was covert op high up in the mountains. Ofc we “denied” that we were even involved.

This is standard operation procedure across the globe. 

Just stop with this laughable mantra already. 

Go mourn your dead soldiers and stop posting dumb things online


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## The Accountant

Tom M said:


> Well the entire world know who had the admission of land grab, the entire Kingdom of Kashmir back in 1947 and how good it ended up for them. But if you want to claim that as a petty success so be it, as usual Pakistan succeeded we lost. Happy now ???



Yes the whole world knows ... Lolz


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## Tom M

AUz said:


> Lmfaooooo
> 
> Literally every single army on planet “denies” the existence of their solder when their fighting covert wars get caught. We accepted our Shaheeds with pride in 65, 71 wars. Kargil was not a full-fledged open conflict. It was covert op high up in the mountains. Ofc we “denied” that we were even involved.
> 
> This is standard operation procedure across the globe.
> 
> Just stop with this laughable mantra already.
> 
> Go *mourn your dead soldiers* and stop posting dumb things online



Don't worry, you will get your chance as well very soon.


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Jackdaws said:


> Except in the real world -
> 
> 1999. Your PM went running to US to beg Clinton to stop the Indians.
> 
> 1971 - land cut of completely? Lol - it housed more than 50% of your population.
> 
> 1965 - is that why you went running to the UN asking for a ceasefire? Lol - must be a first in history.
> 
> 1948 - after India entered into the fray, you only lost territory. But that should not be a surprise.
> 
> 
> Soon that might be the only river you can access


U need history lesson.
Ur president wrote letters to Clinton. Our PM accepted ceasefire after US pressure due to those letters.
In 71 it was 50% hostile population.
In 65 Indians accepted ceasefire too. Could have blocked through best buddy soviets.
In 48 Indians went to UN to beg ceasefire.

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## Rashid Mahmood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096049121063063552

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## Meengla

There is no rejoicing over the deaths of anyone.. but any Indian reading this should not be surprised that the level of violence in Kashmir especially in last few years was going to lead to this... and more.. why can't we start from Musharraf Manmohan dialogues...

As for Iran Pakistan.. don't let a couple of iranians here divide us...

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## PDF

I believe:

This was not a false flag.
Attack took place due to favorable circumstances.
Planning took a couple of years perhaps after pellet guns usage.
Indians will get UN sanction on Masood Azhar approved, the government will get public support and initiate an operation in Kashmir as a result of this.
The militants will have high morale now.
Tensions will remain high between Pakistan and India. My sixth sense says hotline contact between DGMOs will take place soon.
Kashmir is going to have trouble in the coming months.

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## GHALIB

M.Musa said:


> I believe:
> 
> This was not a false flag.
> Attack took place due to favorable circumstances.
> Planning took a couple of years perhaps after pellet guns usage.
> Indians will get UN sanction on Masood Azhar approved, the government will get public support and initiate an operation in Kashmir as a result of this.
> The militants will have high morale now.
> Tensions will remain high between Pakistan and India. My sixth sense says hotline contact between DGMOs will take place soon.
> Kashmir is going to have trouble in the coming months.



indian parliament will abolish article 370 , citizens of india will become free to settle in kashmir . then terrorists will be curbed like animals .


----------



## xyxmt

pahadi said:


> This way it will take you at least a million years, don't worry your misery won't last that long, will be paid with interest, and don't cry India next time something happens....



there wont be anyone left in Indian to cry...next time


----------



## AUz

Tom M said:


> Don't worry, you will get your chance as well very soon.



No, we wont....You don't have the capability to launch attacks inside our mainland like we do.

What you don't realize is that you can ONLY hit us with the help of our own (TTP). That's why during 90's....we were literally _*butchering*_ indian army and you could not do sh*t about it. Thanks to U.S, who created vaccuum on our Western border and caused TTP to rise bc of its Afghan invasion---you were able to exploit that vacuum. And even there, very early on, we decimated your "embassy" and even killed high ranking military officials (Brigadier) in Afghanistan----but U.S put down its foot and stopped us from interferring in _their_ theatre of operations (Afghanistan)----very well documented fact in Americans' diplomatic white papers leaked by Wikileaks. Americans talked about how ISI literally destroyed the most central indian physical presence (embassy) in Afghanistan, killed a Brigadier, and were looking to expand its covert war against india in Afghanistan. Americans incepted the intelligence, showed evidence of ISI's hand in embassy bombing, and _forced_ Pakistan to stay out of Afghanistan since it was 'American theatre of war' now.

As U.S leaves, and TTP calms down, we are going back to 90's. You have very little capability, if any, to interfere in our mainland. Whereas, we don't need your people to kill you inside your territory. Our _assets_ are so capable that they can literally butchered *HUNDREDS *of indian soldiers inside india while operating from Pakistan (Uri was just a starter. Today's bombings were another teaser. Pakistan-based assets can launch similar scale attacks for _years_ to come) 

JeM is Pakistan-based group and yet can inflict umimaginable damage on your forces _inside_ india  Just imagine that. Can you imagine Shiv Sena trying to "attack" Pakistan army inside Pakistan?!!!! 

One strike, 50 soldiers butchered!!! You think your hindutva loons (RSS/Shiv Sena) would stand a chance against these guys in an open conflict??  Hindutva is only good for cow piss drinking and killing random Muslim unarmed truck drivers.

Aint that the truth?

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## PDF

GHALIB said:


> indian parliament will abolish article 370 , citizens of india will become free to settle in kashmir . then terrorists will be curbed like animals .


That move is a red line for Pakistan. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Defence.pk mobile app


----------



## xyxmt

GHALIB said:


> indian parliament will abolish article 370 , citizens of india will become free to settle in kashmir . then terrorists will be curbed like animals .



so five lak Indian soldiers are not able to crub the freedom fighters but civilian will?


----------



## GHALIB

American Pakistani said:


> Last time you only came with fake sir ji kal strykee, before that in 2008 you only b1tched, same thing in 2002, in 1999 you were slaughtered like a chicken, before that in 71 you won after taking advantage of civil war and a land cut off completely with defense of only 34k troops, in 65 again you were crushed, and in 48 huge chunk of Kashmir was liberated, before that in 47 you were thrashed out of Pakistan. So stop b1tching like a dehati aurat.
> 
> I can change flags to Argentina if I want, so? The point is how are you so sure if I'm in US, UK, Pakistan, Europe, MiddleEast, etc?



supporting terrorists like hafiz seyed , masood azhar has brought disaster to pakistan, 
but you are not going to mend your ways . 
so it's your choice american ............



xyxmt said:


> so five lak Indian soldiers are not able to crub the freedom fighters but civilian will?



few terrorists funded from across borders will be curbed easily .


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

GHALIB said:


> indian parliament will abolish article 370 , citizens of india will become free to settle in kashmir . then terrorists will be curbed like animals .


Citizens of India will be sent back to Gangadesh in body bags.


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## xyxmt

GHALIB said:


> few terrorists funded from across borders will be curbed easily .



how soon?


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## Talwar e Pakistan

GHALIB said:


> few terrorists funded from across borders will be curbed easily .


The has been said since the past few hundred attacks.


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## Tom M

GHALIB said:


> indian parliament will abolish article 370 , citizens of india will become free to settle in kashmir . then terrorists will be curbed like animals .



Stop being dilutional. No one is going to do that anytime soon, and I bet you know that better than anyone else. But the last part of your statement, yeas terrorists and terror sympathizers will be hunted with every available option in hand and the world will remain silent spectators as usual.



AUz said:


> No, we wont....You don't have the capability to launch attacks inside our mainland like we do.
> 
> What you don't realize is that you can ONLY hit us with the help of our own (TTP). That's why during 90's....we were literally _*butchering*_ indian army and you could not do sh*t about it. Thanks to U.S, who created vaccuum on our Western border and caused TTP to rise bc of its Afghan invasion---you were able to exploit that vacuum. And even there, very early on, we decimated your "embassy" and even killed high ranking military officials (Brigadier) in Afghanistan----but U.S put down its foot and stopped us from interferring in _their_ theatre of operations (Afghanistan)----very well documented fact in Americans' diplomatic white papers leaked by Wikileaks. Americans talked about how ISI literally destroyed the most central indian physical presence (embassy) in Afghanistan, killed a Brigadier, and were looking to expand its covert war against india in Afghanistan. Americans incepted the intelligence, showed evidence of ISI's hand in embassy bombing, and _forced_ Pakistan to stay out of Afghanistan since it was 'American theatre of war' now.
> 
> As U.S leaves, and TTP calms down, we are going back to 90's. You have very little capability, if any, to interfere in our mainland. Whereas, we don't need your people to kill you inside your territory. Our _assets_ are so capable that they can literally butchered *HUNDREDS *of indian soldiers inside india while operating from Pakistan (Uri was just a starter. Today's bombings were another teaser. Pakistan-based assets can launch similar scale attacks for _years_ to come)
> 
> JeM is Pakistan-based group and yet can inflict umimaginable damage on your forces _inside_ india  Just imagine that. Can you imagine Shiv Sena trying to "attack" Pakistan army inside Pakistan?!!!!
> 
> One strike, 50 soldiers butchered!!! You think your hindutva loons (RSS/Shiv Sena) would stand a chance against these guys in an open conflict??  Hindutva is only good for cow piss drinking and killing random Muslim unarmed truck drivers.
> 
> Aint that the truth?



Guess what, it is not about capability. It's about the national image before the international community. We don't want to be called a rogue nation and face actions/sanctions being called a terror finance and supporter unlike some foolish nations.

The truth is Pakistan is gonna meet the FAFT guy's in couple of days. Feb 17 to be precise. Wait for the outcome and it's ratification by Sept 2019. 



M.Musa said:


> I believe:
> 
> This was not a false flag.
> Attack took place due to favorable circumstances.
> Planning took a couple of years perhaps after pellet guns usage.
> Indians will get UN sanction on Masood Azhar approved, the government will get public support and initiate an operation in Kashmir as a result of this.
> The militants will have high morale now.
> Tensions will remain high between Pakistan and India. My sixth sense says hotline contact between DGMOs will take place soon.
> Kashmir is going to have trouble in the coming months.



Can't agree more. And my sixth sense say's that it will also have a little if not more impact on the FATF review in Paris on Sunday. Hope Pakistan come out clean. 

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/02/p...-in-balance-as-fatf-meets-in-paris-on-feb-17/

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/02/european-union-may-add-pakistan-to-its-money-laundering-blacklist/


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## MilSpec

Persian Gulf 1906 said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz
> 
> is praising a terrorist attack permitted?


Yes, praising; promoting; all allowed.

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## Jackdaws

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> U need history lesson.
> Ur president wrote letters to Clinton. Our PM accepted ceasefire after US pressure due to those letters.
> In 71 it was 50% hostile population.
> In 65 Indians accepted ceasefire too. Could have blocked through best buddy soviets.
> In 48 Indians went to UN to beg ceasefire.


Lol. Nah. Looks like you didn't read history. Google it.

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## GHALIB

Tom M said:


> Stop being dilutional. No one is going to do that anytime soon, and I bet you know that better than anyone else. But the last part of your statement, yeas terrorists and terror sympathizers will be hunted with every available option in hand and the world will remain silent spectators as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess what, it is not about capability. It's about the national image before the international community. We don't want to be called a rogue nation and face actions/sanctions being called a terror finance and supporter unlike some foolish nations.
> 
> The truth is Pakistan is gonna meet the FAFT guy's in couple of days. Feb 17 to be precise. Wait for the outcome and it's ratification by Sept 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't agree more. And my sixth sense say's that it will also have a little if not more impact on the FATF review in Paris on Sunday. Hope Pakistan come out clean.
> 
> https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/02/p...-in-balance-as-fatf-meets-in-paris-on-feb-17/
> 
> https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/02/european-union-may-add-pakistan-to-its-money-laundering-blacklist/



yes this is time to abolish that black article 370 , only then we can settle in kashmir to hunt criminals there .



Jackdaws said:


> Lol. Nah. Looks like you didn't read history. Google it.



they are fed this great knowledge in madarsas ru by hafiz seyed and masood azhar . .

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## Syed1.

GHALIB said:


> y*es this is time to abolish that black article 370 , only then we can settle in kashmir to hunt criminals there .*
> 
> 
> 
> they are fed this great knowledge in madarsas ru by hafiz seyed and masood azhar . .


Your ugly black face will stand out and you will be shot on sight in Kashmir if that happens.


----------



## The Accountant

AUz said:


> No, we wont....You don't have the capability to launch attacks inside our mainland like we do.
> 
> What you don't realize is that you can ONLY hit us with the help of our own (TTP). That's why during 90's....we were literally _*butchering*_ indian army and you could not do sh*t about it. Thanks to U.S, who created vaccuum on our Western border and caused TTP to rise bc of its Afghan invasion---you were able to exploit that vacuum. And even there, very early on, we decimated your "embassy" and even killed high ranking military officials (Brigadier) in Afghanistan----but U.S put down its foot and stopped us from interferring in _their_ theatre of operations (Afghanistan)----very well documented fact in Americans' diplomatic white papers leaked by Wikileaks. Americans talked about how ISI literally destroyed the most central indian physical presence (embassy) in Afghanistan, killed a Brigadier, and were looking to expand its covert war against india in Afghanistan. Americans incepted the intelligence, showed evidence of ISI's hand in embassy bombing, and _forced_ Pakistan to stay out of Afghanistan since it was 'American theatre of war' now.
> 
> As U.S leaves, and TTP calms down, we are going back to 90's. You have very little capability, if any, to interfere in our mainland. Whereas, we don't need your people to kill you inside your territory. Our _assets_ are so capable that they can literally butchered *HUNDREDS *of indian soldiers inside india while operating from Pakistan (Uri was just a starter. Today's bombings were another teaser. Pakistan-based assets can launch similar scale attacks for _years_ to come)
> 
> JeM is Pakistan-based group and yet can inflict umimaginable damage on your forces _inside_ india  Just imagine that. Can you imagine Shiv Sena trying to "attack" Pakistan army inside Pakistan?!!!!
> 
> One strike, 50 soldiers butchered!!! You think your hindutva loons (RSS/Shiv Sena) would stand a chance against these guys in an open conflict??  Hindutva is only good for cow piss drinking and killing random Muslim unarmed truck drivers.
> 
> Aint that the truth?


U litterally raped him ... lolz


----------



## HAIDER

India need to step forward for Kashmir solution. This will intensify with passage of time. Peace for the regional economic progress.


----------



## I.R.A

GHALIB said:


> citizens of india will become free to settle in kashmir . then terrorists will be curbed like animals .



You must be out of your mind. Or are you willing to move to a place with your family ........ where they may end up seeing IEDs going off on daily basis, its blood and flesh every where, pieces of human body .... hands, legs, heads totally separated? You should first conduct a survey how many indian families are willing to move to such a place.

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## Sam.

padamchen said:


> Do you see a link with the attack in Iran?
> 
> Cheers, Doc


In a way yes.



Vibrio said:


> Oh that is a given. But the Govt has boxed itself into a corner over the political ownership of the strikes back in 2016. If it does not respond, it pays a political price and incurs significant costs in the arena of security for the nation. If it responds covertly, it still pays a political cost as public perception will be of no action. If it reacts overtly, it risks a war.
> 
> I suspect we may see an overt reaction if at all, well publicized but below the threshold wherein Pakistan will be forced to react, an act that Pakistan can publicly deny. The present weather conditions in Kashmir preclude an ingress to strike at launch pads, and anyways, that will be expected. Perhaps the use of Heron TP finally?
> 
> Let us see what comes up.


I did talk about it with @Joe Shearer sir that it was very stupid move and now BJP will pay one way or another.



M.Musa said:


> I believe:
> 
> This was not a false flag.
> Attack took place due to favorable circumstances.
> Planning took a couple of years perhaps after pellet guns usage.
> Indians will get UN sanction on Masood Azhar approved, the government will get public support and initiate an operation in Kashmir as a result of this.
> The militants will have high morale now.
> Tensions will remain high between Pakistan and India. My sixth sense says hotline contact between DGMOs will take place soon.
> Kashmir is going to have trouble in the coming months.



Seems typical response but i am not so sure now as everything and everyone is on silent mode. I pray for peace but our praying methods not working it seems.

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## Thorough Pro

Actually it was some ISI agent in Islamabd farted his cannon in IOK direction




CHACHA"G" said:


> First it was ied , then car bomb , then suicide car bomb , then some Pakistani group behind this and in the end Pakistan is behind this...…….. lol almost same old trick indian using from last 20+ years



If this is the real video, then it was nothing more than a fire cracker and no way there were 40 bharti soldiers in that truck




Champion_Usmani said:


> Found that on twitter, most probably this is the attack video by Mujahideen, ignore the tweet text cuz such IED attacks are done by Mujahideen in Kashmir, not by Pak Army.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1095259382399541249


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096246928239661058

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## M. Sarmad

M.Musa said:


> I believe:
> 
> This was not a false flag.



The _tactical facilitation_ needed for carrying out such a massive attack in the world's most militarized zone sure raises some serious doubts.

And then arises the natural question of _Cui bono?_

A false flag cannot be ruled out.

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## RPK

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...er-18-years/article26273207.ece?homepage=true

*Pulwama attack: Suicide car bombing returns to the Valley after 18 years*


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096049841493295106

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## padamchen

Sam. said:


> In a way yes.
> 
> 
> I did talk about it with @Joe Shearer sir that it was very stupid move and now BJP will pay one way or another.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems typical response but i am not so sure now as everything and everyone is on silent mode. I pray for peace but our praying methods not working it seems.



I believe Modi lost the elections yesterday.

I want to see the new government do two things.

Go after and ruthlessly eliminate every voice that talks secession in Kashmir or even raises an eye against our forces.

Go after and crush Kashmir apologists. Ruthlessly. Equally.

Needless to say, the Army now gets a free hand. With any media apologists crushed as in point #2.

Cheers, Doc


----------



## Sam.

padamchen said:


> I believe Modi lost the elections yesterday.
> 
> I want to see the new government do two things.
> 
> Go after and ruthlessly eliminate every voice that talks secession in Kashmir or even raises an eye against our forces.
> 
> Go after and crush Kashmir apologists. Ruthlessly. Equally.
> 
> Needless to say, the Army now gets a free hand. With any media apologists crushed as in point #2.
> 
> Cheers, Doc


Peace is earned not given.

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## khansaheeb

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Ignore this troll, he does not represent Iran or Iranians; so lets not insult Iran which is a friendly nation that has historic and cultural ties with Pakistan, along with being one of the most ideologically closest nation to Pakistan.


Probably a hindjew.



padamchen said:


> I believe Modi lost the elections yesterday.
> 
> I want to see the new government do two things.
> 
> Go after and ruthlessly eliminate every voice that talks secession in Kashmir or even raises an eye against our forces.
> 
> Go after and crush Kashmir apologists. Ruthlessly. Equally.
> 
> Needless to say, the Army now gets a free hand. With any media apologists crushed as in point #2.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



Yep, go for it, as if you Indians have been holding back.

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## padamchen

I.R.A said:


> You must be out of your mind. Or are you willing to move to a place with your family ........ where they may end up seeing IEDs going off on daily basis, its blood and flesh every where, pieces of human body .... hands, legs, heads totally separated? You should first conduct a survey how many indian families are willing to move to such a place.



You seem to be enjoying yourself I?

Cheers, Doc



khansaheeb said:


> holding back.



You have little idea .....

Cheers, Doc


----------



## I.R.A

padamchen said:


> You seem to be enjoying yourself I?
> 
> Cheers, Doc



What is there to enjoy? I had told you long ago we have survived this phase and your's has to start and it has started, instead trying to vent your frustration on us, blame modi and your big mouth army chief. If you want me to praise your forces and say they died a very courageous death ....... I won't do that, they weren't there helping humanity .... but part of an oppressing force. It was their turn. 

My previous comment is very serious and natural for anyone who has some common sense. You don't bring common normal indian people to a troubled land where natives have decided to fight and die for their freedom. Look inside buddy, the hate you have been feeding has brought you some fruits ...... bitter or sweet you should have decided well before.

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## jamahir

Vibrio said:


> A single courier, moving/crawling very slowly over hours, can remain virtually undetected even with the best of conditions permitting extensive use of NVGs, TIs and Unattended Ground Sensors. And here we are talking of thickly vegetated forests and hilly tracts with plenty of crevices and caves.



What are TIs ??


----------



## PDF

jamahir said:


> What are TIs ??


Thermal imaging

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## Champion_Usmani

*Pulwama Attack: 4 More CRPF Men Succumb, Toll 49*


----------



## Joe Shearer

M.Musa said:


> I believe:
> 
> This was not a false flag.
> Attack took place due to favorable circumstances.
> Planning took a couple of years perhaps after pellet guns usage.
> Indians will get UN sanction on Masood Azhar approved, the government will get public support and initiate an operation in Kashmir as a result of this.
> The militants will have high morale now.
> Tensions will remain high between Pakistan and India. My sixth sense says hotline contact between DGMOs will take place soon.
> Kashmir is going to have trouble in the coming months.



I thought it would be impossible to write after this but I have to acknowledge the sensibility and balance of this post. Thank you for a succinct summing up, that is neutral and objective, and for showing us that it is possible to write sense in such a situation.

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## Novice09

padamchen said:


> I believe Modi lost the elections yesterday.
> 
> I want to see the new government do two things.
> 
> Go after and ruthlessly eliminate every voice that talks secession in Kashmir or even raises an eye against our forces.
> 
> Go after and crush Kashmir apologists. Ruthlessly. Equally.
> 
> Needless to say, the Army now gets a free hand. With any media apologists crushed as in point #2.
> 
> Cheers, Doc





Sam. said:


> Peace is earned not given.



क्षमा, दया, तप, त्याग, मनोबल सबका लिया सहारा
पर नर व्याघ सुयोधन तुमसे कहो कहाँ कब हारा?
क्षमाशील हो ॠपु-समक्ष तुम हुये विनीत जितना ही
दुष्ट कौरवों ने तुमको कायर समझा उतना ही
_अत्याचार सहन करने का कुफल यही होता है
पौरुष का आतंक मनुज कोमल होकर खोता है_
*क्षमा शोभती उस भुजंग को जिसके पास गरल है
उसका क्या जो दंतहीन विषरहित विनीत सरल है...*

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## Tom M

HAIDER said:


> India need to step forward for Kashmir solution. This will intensify with passage of time. Peace for the regional economic progress.



Sorry, not interested at the expense of our territory.


----------



## Champion_Usmani

*Thousands gather for funeral*

A sane advice to indians by Ejaz Haider...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096188183027560448

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096124911851130881


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## Irfan Baloch

Horus said:


> So close to the elections?
> 
> Modi must be fist pumping right now.




Couldn't have happened in a better time than this to convince his voters that he will lead them to the conquest of the universe 

By the way Bollywood slready announced movie called Uri 2

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## padamchen

Irfan Baloch said:


> Couldn't have happened in a better time than this to convince his voters that he will lead them to the conquest of the universe
> 
> By the way Bollywood slready announced movie called Uri 2



You guys have totally misread or do not have a clue about the sentiment in India currently.

Going by your media cliches.

@Horus

Cheers, Doc


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Rafi said:


> Cry me a river.





Irfan Baloch said:


> Couldn't have happened in a better time than this to convince his voters that he will lead them to the conquest of the universe
> 
> By the way Bollywood slready announced movie called Uri 2


----------



## Hellfire

jamahir said:


> What are TIs ??



Thermal Imagers. Sorry. Too many acronyms around that I use, oft same for different items

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## Champion_Usmani

*پلوامہ حملے کا الزام پاکستان کونہیں دیا جا سکتا، فاروق عبداللہ*

نئی دہلی (مانیٹرنگ ڈیسک )مقبوضہ کشمیر کے سابق کٹھ پتلی وزیر اعلی فاروق عبد اللہ نے کہاہے کہ مسئلہ کشمیر بندوق سے نہیں بلکہ مذاکرات سے ہی حل ہوگا ،پلوامہ حملے کا الزام صرف پاکستان کونہیں دیا جا سکتا، مقامی کشمیر ی جدوجہد میں شامل ہیں۔ ایک نجی بھارتی نیوز چینل سے گفتگو کرتے ہوئے فاروق عبد اللہ نے کہا کہ پلوامہ میں خود کش حملے کے نتیجے میں بھارتی فوجیوں کے مارے جانے پر مجھے بہت افسوس ہواہے ،یہ کوئی نئی بات نہیں ہے ، مقبوضہ کشمیر میں روز یہی کچھ ہوتاہے کیونکہ وہاں جنگجوؤں اور بھارتی فوج میں جنگ ہو رہی ہے۔انہوں نے کہاکہ جب تک آگے بڑھنے کا کوئی راستہ نہیں ڈھونڈا جائے گا ،یہ جنگ ختم نہیں ہوگی،بندوق اورفوج سے مسئلہ کشمیر حل نہیں ہوگا ،یہ مسئلہ مذاکرات سے حل ہوگا۔انہوں نے کہا کہ بھارت کے پاس کشمیرکے حوالے سے متعدد رپورٹس آچکی ہیں لیکن ان کو کبھی دن کی روشنی میں نہیں دیکھا گیا ،کبھی بھارتی پارلیمنٹ میں اس بات کو تسلیم نہیں کیا گیا کہ کہاں پر غلطی ہے ؟جب بھارت اپنے لوگوں سے بات نہیں کرے گا تو کس سے بات کرے گا؟انہوں نے کہا کہ پلوامہ حملے کا الزام صرف پاکستان کونہیں دیا جا سکتا ، مقامی کشمیری یہ جدوجہد کررہے ہیں۔ خاتون رپورٹرکے اس سوال پر کہ کیا پلوامہ میں بھارتی فوجیوں پر حملہ کرنیوالے جنگجو کو پاکستان کی پشت پناہی حاصل نہیں تھی توفاروق عبداللہ نے اس سے کہا کہ تم کبھی کشمیر گئی ہو ، کیا تم نے کبھی کشمیریوں سے بات کی ہے ؟کہ یہ جوان لڑکے کیوں لڑ رہے ہیں، تم نے ان سے کبھی بات نہیں کی لیکن میں نے ان سے بات کی ہے۔اس سوال پر کہ کیا آپ واپس پاکستان جانا چاہتے ہیں تو فاروق عبداللہ غصے میں آگئے اور کہا کہ میں کبھی پاکستان واپس جانا نہیں چاہتا بلکہ تم پاکستان جانا چاہتی ہو ، تمہارا سوال ہی غلط ہے ، میں تمہار ی اس فضول بکواس کا جواب نہیں دینا چاہتا۔

https://dailypakistan.com.pk/E-Paper/lahore/2019-02-15/page-1/detail-36

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## PaklovesTurkiye

padamchen said:


> You guys have totally misread or do not have a clue about the sentiment in India currently.



And why do you think we should care about sentiments of India...??? Forget about reading or misreading

We opened Kartarpur corridor...and You did this. Sikhs will not like if you roll back Kartarpur by making this incident as excuse


----------



## padamchen

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> And why do you think we should care about sentiments of India...??? Forget about reading or misreading
> 
> We opened Kartarpur corridor...and You did this. Sikhs will not like if you roll back Kartarpur by making this incident as excuse



You really do not want to know what my Sikh friends are "thinking" on WhatsApp currently.

Cheers, Doc


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

padamchen said:


> You really do not want to know what my Sikh friends are "thinking" on WhatsApp currently.



Sikhs, vast majority of them don't have any ill will towards us. We know them and they know us.

Sikhs saw who was feeling happy with opening of corridor and who later joined in with defeated face. Imran Khan was former


----------



## Sully3

padamchen said:


> You really do not want to know what my Sikh friends are "thinking" on WhatsApp currently.
> 
> Cheers, Doc


whats app warriors can think what they want. 

proof is in the pudding. Happy Valentines day


----------



## padamchen

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Sikhs, vast majority of them don't have any ill will towards us. We know them and they know us.
> 
> Sikhs saw who was feeling happy with opening of corridor and who later joined in with defeated face. Imran Khan was former



You can keep saying that.

While here we actually live with real Sikhs.

Not the ones you guys manufacture to bolster your arguments.

Sikhs loving Pakistanis is one of life's enduring jokes.

Cheers, Doc

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## Sully3

Tom M said:


> Sorry, not interested at the expense of our territory.


Happy Valentines day for yesterday Tom. 









padamchen said:


> You can keep saying that.
> 
> While here we actually live with real Sikhs.
> 
> Not the ones you guys manufacture to bolster your arguments.
> 
> Sikhs loving Pakistanis is one of life's enduring jokes.
> 
> Cheers, Doc


some countries manufacture sikhs, some countries manufacture false flag operations to fool their own public in election year.

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## Windjammer

*Indian mentality and hypocracy on full display.
*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096314358882357248

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## padamchen

Sully3 said:


> Happy Valentines day for yesterday Tom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> some countries manufacture sikhs, some countries manufacture false flag operations to fool their own public in election year.



Sure you have some Sikhs. Like you have some Parsis too.

That's not the point.

The point is that most of them live with us and hate Pakistan very deeply. Very personally.

Please have no false illusions on that score. I've literally grown up with Sikhs and Punjabis.

Cheers, Doc

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## PaklovesTurkiye

padamchen said:


> You can keep saying that.
> 
> While here we actually live with real Sikhs.
> 
> Not the ones you guys manufacture to bolster your arguments.
> 
> Sikhs loving Pakistanis is one of life's enduring jokes.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



Sikhs have seen what is India to them...Sikhs are religious and they know their sites are being well taken care of in Pakistan. They are desperate to come and no Indian will be able to stop them

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## Champion_Usmani

*Hindu fanatics torch dozens of vehicles of Muslims in Jammu*

Srinagar, February 15 (KMS): In occupied Kashmir, Hindu fanatics torched dozens of vehicles of Muslims in Jammu city, today.

Amid shutdown, the Hindu mobs set afire at least fifty vehicles of Muslims in Gujjar Nagar and Prem Nagar areas of the city.

Earlier, hundreds of members of Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena, Vishwa Hindu Parishad and other extremist Hindu organizations poured into the streets of Jammu city and protested against the killing of Indian troops in an explosion at Lethpora in Pulwama yesterday.

Eyewitnesses said that the protesters raised anti-Kashmir and anti-Pakistan and other provocative slogans.

Following the violence by the Hindu fanatics, the occupation authorities imposed curfew in Jammu. The authorities have also suspended internet service in the city.

The strike call in Jammu was given by Jammu Chamber of Commerce and Industry (JCCI) and was supported by Jammu High Court Bar Association.

https://kmsnews.org/news/2019/02/15/hindu-fanatics-torch-dozens-of-vehicles-of-muslims-in-jammu/

One can easily notice the pattern after each of such false flag operations by extremist indian regime, whether the operation is done to malign Pakistan, or against the muslims of india or other minorities, You see whether it is muslim massacre in Gujarat after suspicious godhra train incident or other communal riots by extremist hindus against minorities, OR this current Pulwama attack.

A suspicious incident occurs, extremist Brahmin Indian regime declares Pakistan or muslims responsible without any investigation, creates noise & hysteria using media, and suddenly well planned attacks against muslims start inside india.


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## Sully3

padamchen said:


> Sure you have some Sikhs. Like you have some Parsis too.
> 
> That's not the point.
> 
> The point is that most of them live with us and hate Pakistan very deeply. Very personally.
> 
> Please have no false illusions on that score. I've literally grown up with Sikhs and Punjabis.
> 
> Cheers, Doc


im not denying the fact indian sikhs have been brain washed into hating Pakistan just like all of other indians. 

but the thing im trying to explain to you is sikhism is bigger then just sikhs in india. Sikhs in the west especially here in UK and Canada have a major dislike to indian goverment and its policies. they still havent forgotten operation blue star, which was 100x times worse and disrespectful for sikhs then anything pakistan has ever done to them



Windjammer said:


> *Indian mentality and hypocracy on full display.
> *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096314358882357248


Indias very own terrorist apologist. 

Indians like sohan and aditya raj are the faces of hindu indian terrorism.


----------



## Windjammer

Sully3 said:


> Indias very own terrorist apologist.
> 
> Indians like sohan and aditya raj are the faces of hindu indian terrorism.


May the force be with them, we want Modi Ji to win the next elections to add more fuel to the fires of religious and ethnic flames which have engulfed India under his rule.


----------



## Champion_Usmani

*Pulwama Attack: Indian extremists burn 80 vehicles of Muslims in Jammu
*
http://video.dunyanews.tv/index.php...tremists-burn-80-vehicles-of-Muslims-in-Jammu


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## maximuswarrior

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> And why do you think we should care about sentiments of India...??? Forget about reading or misreading
> 
> We opened Kartarpur corridor...and You did this. Sikhs will not like if you roll back Kartarpur by making this incident as excuse



India has lately been checkmated all over the place. Afghanistan, Taliban talks, Kartarpur, Imran Khan elections, CPEC, Russia-Pakistan relations etc. It has been one defeat after another. Elections are also coming. Modi looks weak and pathetic. The Indian economy isn't doing well. Hence the false flag attack by ugly rapists.

The Indians themselves are questioning how their leadership was fabricating false claims about oppressing the Kashmiris into submission. Clearly the Kashmiris cannot be silenced.

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## American Pakistani

GHALIB said:


> supporting terrorists like hafiz seyed , masood azhar has brought disaster to pakistan,
> but you are not going to mend your ways .
> so it's your choice american ............



Pakistan never supported terrorists, it fully and openly support Kashmiri people struggle against indian occupier terrorists. 

Thankyou bhrti.

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## Tom M

Sully3 said:


> Happy Valentines day for yesterday Tom.



Thanks, noted, and I will be waiting to wish you *Eid *in advance. Just be patient.

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## Champion_Usmani

See, IB & Raw conducted yet another successful false flag Operation, so for Modi, the show must go on, who (inside Indian Establishment) cares for poor slain Dalit, Sikh or Muslim soldiers of CRPF?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096360164880453633

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## Verve

This has *false flag* stamped all over it ... timing, quantity of explosions, total lack of security for such a large convoy etc etc ...

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## Tom M

Verve said:


> This has *false flag* stamped all over it ... timing, quantity of explosions, total lack of security for such a large convoy etc etc ...



Just like your APS 2014 or GHQ attacks, huh ??

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## Champion_Usmani

Tom M said:


> Just like your APS 2014 or GHQ attacks, huh ??


No, we caught the real culprit successfully, his name is Kulbhushan Yadav, a serving Indian naval officer, indian Raw agent & terrorist.

Having said that stick to the topic, don't derail the thread.
Want to talk about APS attack, create another thread.

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## American Pakistani

Jackdaws said:


> Except in the real world -
> 
> 1999. Your PM went running to US to beg Clinton to stop the Indians.
> 
> 1971 - land cut of completely? Lol - it housed more than 50% of your population.
> 
> 1965 - is that why you went running to the UN asking for a ceasefire? Lol - must be a first in history.
> 
> 1948 - after India entered into the fray, you only lost territory. But that should not be a surprise.





Tom M said:


> Well what happened in 2002 or 2008 ??? A proxy attack right ??
> 
> Why do you guy's expect the adversary to respond conventionally to any proxy strikes. And please don't be under the impression that you were safe during the period from 2000 through 2019.
> 
> Regarding 1999, boasting about sitting on top of a higher altitude and taking about that capability as your bravery, huh ??? Well we are doing the same with just a hand full of soldiers in Siachen for decades now, and you army of braves couldn't do a Jack till now.
> 
> 1965, indeed we were crushed. But the irony was that Mr. ZA Butto was the one crying loud and clear in UNSC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1971, you had a great disadvantage. Still the army of the brave never gave a reasonable fight to begin with. They just surrendered in a matter of record days.
> 
> Now what are you boasting about ??? Did Pakistan managed to achieve any of your objectives other than initiating any war without any results. India at-least managed to dismember our enemy and is still sitting on top of a glacier which her enemy claims in full.



1999 - It was your dehati aurat as always who was b1tching and doing r rona to the world after witnessing the crushing defeat coming it's way. Pakistan slaughtered you mercilessly and won militarily. It withdrew at it's govt's order but still retain some strategic peaks.

1971 - of course the land was completely cut off by enemy territory, were you under the rock the whole time? Or Redington bharti propaganda make you such. The civil war was against those people you mentioned along with hundred of thousands bharti terrorists. Your army came when Pakistan was already fighting 9 month with air routes and sea routes blocked and no fresh supplies. That is when bhartis entered when they knew there was no supplies. And that also you entered with close to 200k troops while about a million terrorists were already there.

1965 - Chawinda was converted into bharti tanks graveyard. The ceasefire was forced by UN and even then there were skirmishes which is why UN almost forced it. As for Bhutto crying, of course in order to fight your case, you first has to show the world you are a victim and weak and opponent is aggressor and strong in this case stronk bharat.

1948 - Pakistan entered the war after bhartis. The Pakistani general who was assigned by British and was British national refused to defend Kashmir which is why Pakistan was the last party. First were Kashmiris themselves who were fighting dogra but since they had no training and experience they were not doing well and dogra was r@ping them, then Kashmiris called on fellow Pakistanis for help and they got support of Pushtun tribals who mercilessly slaughtered doggra army after which he called bhartis (of course a trained army) who pushed the tribals and Kashmiris backward and occupy some liberated parts, then entered Pakistan who thrashed bhartis and re liberated the occupied parts, but unfortunately indian dehati aurat r rona was first seen here and they beg world and UN for cease fire.

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## Champion_Usmani

Verve said:


> This has *false flag* stamped all over it ... timing, quantity of explosions, total lack of security for such a large convoy etc etc ...


Among other goals/aims, there is one more major issue for India.

The hearing of Kulbhushan case in ICJ is at 18th Feb & indian case is very weak, so India needs a terrorism noise against Pakistan in order to pressurise ICJ, Indians will be supported by strong US lobby in ICJ and UN, and for that purpose india can sacrifice 100s of soldiers or Indian civilians.


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## Path-Finder

the usual high commissioner has been summoned. This all plays into india's hand but for how long?


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## Verve

Tom M said:


> Just like your APS 2014 or GHQ attacks, huh ??



And did everyone in Pakistan go berzerk and demand an attack on India? You Hindus are going nuts at the moment demanding a war! And before every GE in your filthy toilet of a country, some attacks happen that you blame Pakistan. Your elections are contested over Pakistan and that's a fact.

You had no country heads visiting us before APS or GHQ and we did not have any elections coming up then either.

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## Windjammer

*Pulwama fidayeen attack toll mounts to 49
*
Zulfikar Majid, Srinagar, FEB 15 2019, 12:51PM IST UPDATED: FEB 15 2019, 15:18PM IST .

Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/national/pulwama-fidayeen-attack-toll-718564.html

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## IceCold

Path-Finder said:


> the usual high commissioner has been summoned. This all plays into india's hand but for how long?


Is our high commissioner bound by the law to go to Indian foreign office and be part of this?


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## Path-Finder

IceCold said:


> Is our high commissioner bound by the law to go to Indian foreign office and be part of this?


I guess if you are summoned then you must appear.


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## Areesh

IceCold said:


> Is our high commissioner bound by the law to go to Indian foreign office and be part of this?



Yes. It is a formality

We also do it


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## IceCold

Areesh said:


> Yes. It is a formality
> 
> We also do it





Path-Finder said:


> I guess if you are summoned then you must appear.



But this is just drama bazi. On what grounds is India summoning our ambassador, instead of becoming part of this we should simply recall our ambassador. 

On a side note i had such high hopes from the government of IK that he would rather acquire a hard line stance when it comes to India, but his repeated overtures to India has disappointed me.

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## Path-Finder

IceCold said:


> But this is just drama bazi. On what grounds is India summoning our ambassador, instead of becoming part of this we should simply recall our ambassador.
> 
> On a side note i had such high hopes from the government of IK that he would rather acquire a hard line stance when it comes to India, but his repeated overtures to India has disappointed me.



Like you said, its darama bazi

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## Areesh

IceCold said:


> But this is just drama bazi. On what grounds is India summoning our ambassador, instead of becoming part of this we should simply recall our ambassador.
> 
> On a side note i had such high hopes from the government of IK that he would rather acquire a hard line stance when it comes to India, but his repeated overtures to India has disappointed me.



It is a formality that everyone has to follow. Can't blame IK on this

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## Jackdaws

American Pakistani said:


> 1999 - It was your dehati aurat as always who was b1tching and doing r rona to the world after witnessing the crushing defeat coming it's way. Pakistan slaughtered you mercilessly and won militarily. It withdrew at it's govt's order but still retain some strategic peaks.
> 
> 1971 - of course the land was completely cut off by enemy territory, were you under the rock the whole time? Or Redington bharti propaganda make you such. The civil war was against those people you mentioned along with hundred of thousands bharti terrorists. Your army came when Pakistan was already fighting 9 month with air routes and sea routes blocked and no fresh supplies. That is when bhartis entered when they knew there was no supplies. And that also you entered with close to 200k troops while about a million terrorists were already there.
> 
> 1965 - Chawinda was converted into bharti tanks graveyard. The ceasefire was forced by UN and even then there were skirmishes which is why UN almost forced it. As for Bhutto crying, of course in order to fight your case, you first has to show the world you are a victim and weak and opponent is aggressor and strong in this case stronk bharat.
> 
> 1948 - Pakistan entered the war after bhartis. The Pakistani general who was assigned by British and was British national refused to defend Kashmir which is why Pakistan was the last party. First were Kashmiris themselves who were fighting dogra but since they had no training and experience they were not doing well and dogra was r@ping them, then Kashmiris called on fellow Pakistanis for help and they got support of Pushtun tribals who mercilessly slaughtered doggra army after which he called bhartis (of course a trained army) who pushed the tribals and Kashmiris backward and occupy some liberated parts, then entered Pakistan who thrashed bhartis and re liberated the occupied parts, but unfortunately indian dehati aurat r rona was first seen here and they beg world and UN for cease fire.


Looks like history taught in the local madrassa 

1999 - First Sartaj Aziz came to India begging for a ceasefire. When India told him to vacate and there would be none, Sharif ran to Clinton with his shalwar down and lota in hand.

1971 - you lost half your country which housed over 50% of your population. There are enough videos to show that your soldiers preferred surrendering to Indians as Indians were keeping them safe rather than face the local Bengalis. You should be thankful.

1965 - and you lost so many Tanks at Assal Uttar that the area became known as Patton Nagar. Your objective of liberating Kashmir fell flat and here is Bhutto in the UN in 1965 calling India a might power, saying Pakistan faces extermination and comparing Pakistan to Denmark and India to Germany. 





1948 - In which alternate universe did the Pak Army even gain any land after the Indian Army entered the fray?

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## Bratva

Ahmed Waqas Gorya spreading his poison on Indian Channel and barking against Pakistan and Pakistan Army.






That is what happens when you allow a traitor to escape from country!

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## Jackdaws

Bratva said:


> Ahmed Waqas Gorya spreading his poison on Indian Channel and barking against Pakistan and Pakistan Army.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is what happens when you allow a traitor to escape from country!


So Pakistanis need to escape from their country to air such views. Interesting.


----------



## Bratva

Jackdaws said:


> So Pakistanis need to escape from their country to air such views. Interesting.


 
Likewise when Sarmilla bose say something, remind me how Indians react then ?

An Attack done by a indian citizen and india is blaming Pakistan ? Doesn't make sense. Where is the proof of Pakistan involvement ?

Locally sourced explosives ? Car Used was Made in India? Attacker was Indian. And Pakistan is to be blamed ?

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## HAIDER

Tom M said:


> Sorry, not interested at the expense of our territory.


Good claim ... good luck.

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## Sully3

Tom M said:


> Thanks, noted, and I will be waiting to wish you *Eid *in advance. Just be patient.


just make sure you have evidence this time unlike the Sur Ji Kal strikes

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## HAIDER

Bratva said:


> Likewise when Sarmilla bose say something, remind me how Indians react then ?
> 
> An Attack done by a indian citizen and india is blaming Pakistan ? Doesn't make sense. Where is the proof of Pakistan involvement ?
> 
> Locally sourced explosives ? Car Used was Made in India? Attacker was Indian. And Pakistan is to be blamed ?


This is all fabricated attack, done before Suadi Crown prince visit to Pakistan and then India. Building anti Pakistan narrative.

Think for minute how that much explosive pass through heavily guarded border. It mean Indian army totally failed in the region. Or it mean Kashmiri freedom fighter are extremely trained and now they took the war inside Indian military camps. But sad part is majority of CPRF soldiers are local muslims who been facing years of unemployment and living in isolation due to Indian govt policy . Also kept Kashmir as police state with Draconian law.

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## Zarvan




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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Jackdaws said:


> So Pakistanis need to escape from their country to air such views. Interesting.


More like such views allow them to 'escape' (apply for asylum) in Western countries and get paid by various vested interests specifically to air such views.

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## HAIDER

Zarvan said:


>


Seems officers cadre strike ...


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## Areesh

Zarvan said:


>



These are not all the casualties. Where are the rest?


----------



## HAIDER

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> More like such views allow them to 'escape' (apply for asylum) in Western countries and get paid by various vested interests specifically to air such views.


You and I heard so many asylum cases in US. 99 percent are bunch of lies and fabricated documents. Now US immigration is not taking battered women and asylum related cases anymore.


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## Areesh

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> More like such views allow them to 'escape' (apply for asylum) in Western countries and get paid by various vested interests specifically to air such views.



Not to forget this guy Goraya still has to pay his due money to Pakistani state that it spent on giving scholarship this snake


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## Sully3

Zarvan said:


>


The real surgical strikes, brought to you with proof so there is no reason for films like URI  

@Tom M


----------



## Champion_Usmani

*Day before Pulwama attack, US urged citizens to reconsider travelling to Pakistan due to terrorism*






*The US has urged its citizens to reconsider their travel to Pakistan mainly due to terrorism and risks to civil aviation operating within or near the country.*

The Federal Aviation Administration, in a notice issued on Wednesday, said that terrorist groups continue plotting possible attacks in Pakistan.

“Reconsider travel to Pakistan due to terrorism,” the State Department said in a latest travel advisory.

It asked Americans not to travel to Balochistan province and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KPK) province, including the former Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), due to terrorism, and Azad Kashmir area due to terrorism and the potential for armed conflict.

Terrorist groups continue plotting possible attacks in Pakistan, it said, adding that terrorists may attack with little or no warning, targeting transportation hubs, markets, shopping malls, military installations, airports, universities, tourist locations, schools, hospitals, places of worship and government facilities.


Noting that terrorist attacks continue to happen across Pakistan, with most occurring in Balochistan and KPK, including the former FATA, the State Department said large-scale terrorist attacks have resulted in hundreds of casualties over the last several years.

India and Pakistan maintain a strong military presence on both sides of the border. The only official Pakistan-India border crossing point for persons who are not citizens of India or Pakistan is in the province of Punjab between Wagah, Pakistan, and Attari, India, the advisory said.

https://www.financialexpress.com/wo...velling-to-pakistan-due-to-terrorism/1488742/

*A day before attack in Pulwama IOK, the americans are urging their citizens to re consider their travel to Pakistan due to terrorism and risks to civil aviation operating within or near the country.*

*Now this advisory was issued at 13th Feb, a day before attack.
Question is Why? *

*Were they aware of something is going to happen? were they onboard? this advisory raises doubts on this whole CRPF attack episode.*

*US will have to leave Afghanistan eventually, this false flag attack in Pulwama is part of their end game, they desperately want to finish this afghan campaign at their own terms, indians have their own goals and fears.*


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## Syed1.

Champion_Usmani said:


> *Day before Pulwama attack, US urged citizens to reconsider travelling to Pakistan due to terrorism*
> 
> View attachment 539498
> 
> 
> *The US has urged its citizens to reconsider their travel to Pakistan mainly due to terrorism and risks to civil aviation operating within or near the country.*
> 
> The Federal Aviation Administration, in a notice issued on Wednesday, said that terrorist groups continue plotting possible attacks in Pakistan.
> 
> “Reconsider travel to Pakistan due to terrorism,” the State Department said in a latest travel advisory.
> 
> It asked Americans not to travel to Balochistan province and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KPK) province, including the former Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), due to terrorism, and Azad Kashmir area due to terrorism and the potential for armed conflict.
> 
> Terrorist groups continue plotting possible attacks in Pakistan, it said, adding that terrorists may attack with little or no warning, targeting transportation hubs, markets, shopping malls, military installations, airports, universities, tourist locations, schools, hospitals, places of worship and government facilities.
> 
> 
> Noting that terrorist attacks continue to happen across Pakistan, with most occurring in Balochistan and KPK, including the former FATA, the State Department said large-scale terrorist attacks have resulted in hundreds of casualties over the last several years.
> 
> India and Pakistan maintain a strong military presence on both sides of the border. The only official Pakistan-India border crossing point for persons who are not citizens of India or Pakistan is in the province of Punjab between Wagah, Pakistan, and Attari, India, the advisory said.
> 
> https://www.financialexpress.com/wo...velling-to-pakistan-due-to-terrorism/1488742/
> 
> *A day before attack in Pulwama IOK, the americans are urging their citizens to re consider their travel to Pakistan due to terrorism and risks to civil aviation operating within or near the country.*
> 
> *Now this advisory was issued at 13th Feb, a day before attack.
> Question is Why? *
> 
> *Were they aware of something is going to happen? were they onboard? this advisory raises doubts on this whole CRPF attack episode.*
> 
> *US will have to leave Afghanistan eventually, this false flag attack in Pulwama is part of their end game, they desperately want to finish this afghan campaign at their own terms, indians have their own goals and fears.*




Fake news.... US already had travel advisory up even before attacks.


----------



## American Pakistani

Jackdaws said:


> Looks like history taught in the local madrassa
> 
> 1999 - First Sartaj Aziz came to India begging for a ceasefire. When India told him to vacate and there would be none, Sharif ran to Clinton with his shalwar down and lota in hand.
> 
> 1971 - you lost half your country which housed over 50% of your population. There are enough videos to show that your soldiers preferred surrendering to Indians as Indians were keeping them safe rather than face the local Bengalis. You should be thankful.
> 
> 1965 - and you lost so many Tanks at Assal Uttar that the area became known as Patton Nagar. Your objective of liberating Kashmir fell flat and here is Bhutto in the UN in 1965 calling India a might power, saying Pakistan faces extermination and comparing Pakistan to Denmark and India to Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948 - In which alternate universe did the Pak Army even gain any land after the Indian Army entered the fray?



1999 - Abay thick bharti frand you grew up learning mandira education?. Did you comprehend my post? Pakistani military slaughtered youroccupier terrorists like a guinea pigs and won and your dehati aurat was running here and there with r rona like a headless chicken. After you were begging for mercy licking American boots with dhoti lungi sari down, Clinton decided to help you, Sharif was bribed and his govt ordered withdrawl. 

1971 - You attacked like a pure geedar. Pakistan was almost depleted with all supplies and ammo in fighting 9 month indian sponsored terrorists mutki war and so india decided to attack with tons of troops and armored divisions. Do you have a shame fighting mere 34k troops with tons of your military and million strong terrorists while a civil war is going on.

1965 - Battle of Chawinda is the largest tank battle after ww2, in which entire Chawinda was converted into bharti tank graveyard. No such scale tank war ever fought. Bhutto was a politicians and he has to lie in UN by presenting himself as weak and small and opponent as strong and aggressor. The logic that you will never get under your thick skull.

1948 - after bharti terrorists entered and started fighting tribals and Kashmiris and started occupying the liberated lands, came Pakistan army who started pushing you and re liberating the occupied parts and then you begged UN for mercy and did r rona. That was first episode of dehati aurat.



Sully3 said:


> just make sure you have evidence this time unlike the Sur Ji Kal strikes



They did had evidence, in case you missed it,






After sir ji kal strykkee by supa pawa, battle ground scene,

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

You know what the biggest difference between the Pakistani approach towards COIN in Balochistan and FATA vs the Indian approach in J&K (aside from the legal aspects of J&K being disputed territory of course)?

You never (aside from the occasional angry rabid outlier) hear Pakistanis talk about 'settling people from all over Pakistan in FATA and Balochistan to marginalize the local population' like you hear the Indians talk about in J&K. It points to a mentality that dehumanizes the Kashmiris and essentially doesn't really care for them. Even when Pakistan was suffering from a massive number of terrorist attacks and casualties from groups based in the Tribal areas, an overwhelming majority of Pakistanis never considered 'supplanting the local Pashtun population with Pakistani Punjabi or Sindhi settlers'. The same case with Balochistan.

It's not just limited to the average Indian, the BJP government's desire to revoke article 370 reflects much the same thing.

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## American Pakistani

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> You know what the biggest difference between the Pakistani approach towards COIN in Balochistan and FATA vs the Indian approach in J&K (aside from the legal aspects of J&K being disputed territory of course)?
> 
> You never (aside from the occasional angry rabid outlier) hear Pakistanis talk about 'settling people from all over Pakistan in FATA and Balochistan to marginalize the local population' like you hear the Indians talk about in J&K. It points to a mentality that dehumanizes the Kashmiris and essentially doesn't really care for them. Even when Pakistan was suffering from a massive number of terrorist attacks and casualties from groups based in the Tribal areas, an overwhelming majority of Pakistanis never considered 'supplanting the local Pashtun population with Pakistani Punjabi or Sindhi settlers'. The same case with Balochistan.
> 
> It's not just limited to the average Indian, the BJP government's desire to revoke article 370 reflects much the same thing.



There is another reason to that. Balochistan and FATA were legally part of Pakistan so people in those provinces live Pakistan except few terrorists and warlords who decided to go for money against Pakistan. Kashmir on the other hand is illegally occupied region by india where Indian leaders promised them of refrendum and right of self determination but never allowed them and instead killed their youth after torture in fake staged encounters, killed their parents, kids, raped their women, etc etc. There is no settlement except independence of Kashmir from indian occupiers. Balochistan is more like Hyderabad Deccan or Tamil area whereas FATA is comparable to nothing in India.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

American Pakistani said:


> There is another reason to that. Balochistan and FATA were legally part of Pakistan so people in those provinces live Pakistan except few terrorists and warlords who decided to go for money against Pakistan. Kashmir on the other hand is illegally occupied region by india where Indian leaders promised them of refrendum and right of self determination but never allowed them and instead killed their youth after torture in fake staged encounters, killed their parents, kids, raped their women, etc etc. There is no settlement except independence of Kashmir from indian occupiers. Balochistan is more like Hyderabad Deccan or Tamil area whereas FATA is comparable to nothing in India.


Of course, but that's why I wanted to talk about this without the legal status of the regions in the picture. My point is that many Indians and parties like the BJP don't really see Kashmiris as 'Indian' - they see the territory/land as Indian, but not the Muslim residents. Pakistan and Pakistanis, regardless of how long the violence in Balochistan and FATA has been going on, make a distinction between the violent groups fighting the Pakistani State (we're all for wiping them out by any means possible) and the average resident of Balochistan and FATA. Yes, there are derogatory stereotypes out there, but a majority of Pakistanis still view the residents of Balochistan and FATA as our Pakistani and Muslim brothers and sisters. If someone ever brings up something like 'just settle Balochistan with Punjabis' or 'settle FATA with outsiders' the rest of us demolish that argument.

Demographic change should not be forced upon a people, especially your own citizens.

Can India ever win the hearts of the Kashmiris when it can't really bring itself to see them as equals, and sees them as more of a pestilence on land that India claims?

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## Champion_Usmani

*This Indian journalist had predicted a ‘major border confrontation’ with Pakistan will benefit Modi before 2019 Elections




*

NEW DELHI - India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi has warned Pakistan that it “is on a path to its own destruction” a day after *more than 40 people were killed in a bomb blast in the occupied Kashmir region*.

On Thursday, a suicide bomber crashed an explosives-packed SUV into a Central Reserve Police Force bus in Pulwama district of held-Kashmir. The bus was transporting some 40 reservists in a convoy of 78 other vehicles.

While New Delhi is blaming Islamabad for the deadly blast without any concrete evidence and thorough investigation, people from inside the South Asian country believe the politics on Pulwama attack looks more of a pre-election stunt by the incumbent Bharatiya Janata Party’s leadership to boost its voters.

Ashok Swain, a professor of peace and conflict research at the Department of Peace and Conflict in Sweden, has said India shouldn’t and must not get into Modi’s manipulated pre-election war frenzy. “The desire for revenge makes people blind and leads to self-destructive actions. An armed confrontation, even if it fails to lead to nuclear holocaust, it will end India’s democracy forever!” Swain posted on social media.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096313869419536385
The Indian-born academic, who has since now received multiple death threats by radical groups in India, had in December last year predicted a “major border confrontation” with Pakistan which would benefit PM Modi before the upcoming general elections.






“Mark my word – In the next 5 months, Modi will smile more in public and will cry more in public. India should be also prepared for a major riot and/or a major border confrontation with Pakistan before the 2019 election,” he had said in a tweet.

Mr. Swain, following the Pulwama attack, took to Twitter to highlight that “Under Modi, not only terror attacks but also the death of Indian security forces has increased dramatically in Kashmir. The number of security persons killed in Kashmir – 47 in 2014, 39 in 2015, 82 in 2016, 80 in 2017 and 91 in 2018”.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096142559598899200
A number of Twitterati equally voiced the belief that the deadly attack on CRPF convoy in Pulwama district of India-occupied Kashmir will be twisted in favour of Narendra Modi-led BJP in the upcoming polls.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072871027082850307

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072506922018975745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072682717970452481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072680626803871745
The Indian General elections, 2019 are due to be held between April and May 2019 to constitute the 17th Lok Sabha. Legislative Assembly elections in the states of Andhra Pradesh, Arunachal Pradesh, Odisha, Sikkim and Jammu and Kashmir are expected to be held simultaneously with the general elections.

https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/wor...stan-will-benefit-modi-before-2019-elections/


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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096403493642952704
*Here is the original Tweet by Professor Ashok Predicting the false flag attack at, note the tweet date its, 11 December 2018...*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072503110118096897


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## Chhatrapati

Max said:


> pagan terrorists killed 100K Kashmiris, injured lacs for asking the rights they were promised in UN and still trying to act as victim. Victims are Kashmiri not Gangadeshi occupiers.


The classic victim excuse. 



Crystal-Clear said:


> no need to drag modi here.


I didn't drag Modi anywhere. I just gave a world renowned fact.


----------



## Champion_Usmani

False Flag Alert...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096398195930869761
There are, few sane voices in India...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096078988160786432


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## Jackdaws

American Pakistani said:


> 1999 - Abay thick bharti frand you grew up learning mandira education?. Did you comprehend my post? Pakistani military slaughtered youroccupier terrorists like a guinea pigs and won and your dehati aurat was running here and there with r rona like a headless chicken. After you were begging for mercy licking American boots with dhoti lungi sari down, Clinton decided to help you, Sharif was bribed and his govt ordered withdrawl.
> 
> 1971 - You attacked like a pure geedar. Pakistan was almost depleted with all supplies and ammo in fighting 9 month indian sponsored terrorists mutki war and so india decided to attack with tons of troops and armored divisions. Do you have a shame fighting mere 34k troops with tons of your military and million strong terrorists while a civil war is going on.
> 
> 1965 - Battle of Chawinda is the largest tank battle after ww2, in which entire Chawinda was converted into bharti tank graveyard. No such scale tank war ever fought. Bhutto was a politicians and he has to lie in UN by presenting himself as weak and small and opponent as strong and aggressor. The logic that you will never get under your thick skull.
> 
> 1948 - after bharti terrorists entered and started fighting tribals and Kashmiris and started occupying the liberated lands, came Pakistan army who started pushing you and re liberating the occupied parts and then you begged UN for mercy and did r rona. That was first episode of dehati aurat.
> 
> 
> 
> They did had evidence, in case you missed it,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sir ji kal strykkee by supa pawa, battle ground scene,


Your questionable fetishes aside, the videos speak for themselves



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> More like such views allow them to 'escape' (apply for asylum) in Western countries and get paid by various vested interests specifically to air such views.


Who pays them? Any proof?


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## American Pakistani

Jackdaws said:


> Your questionable fetishes aside, the videos speak for themselves



We don't give a fk about your fetishes and mental organism.


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## Jackdaws

American Pakistani said:


> We don't give a fk about your fetishes and mental organism.


Of course not. You clearly have your own.


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## American Pakistani

Jackdaws said:


> Of course not. You clearly have your own.



We are not the ones claiming to be supa pawa or making mountainous claims. Your military and govt make foolish claims and then it become very hard for them to control fools who expect those miracles. Artificial country, artificial supa pawa, artificial claims, and to defend those claims, more artificial claims with artificial anger in media to gain trps.


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## Champion_Usmani

Professor Ashok's Views about Modi...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096419941765414912

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## Verve

Maybe it is time for the localised war in Northern Areas (Gilgit and Chitral).

Is ISIS/blackwater army ready to the West for a coordinated attack with Hindu from East?


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## Jackdaws

American Pakistani said:


> We are not the ones claiming to be supa pawa or making mountainous claims. Your military and govt make foolish claims and then it become very hard for them to control fools who expect those miracles. Artificial country, artificial supa pawa, artificial claims, and to defend those claims, more artificial claims with artificial anger in media to gain trps.


Lol. Whatever makes you feel better about your past, present and future.


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## American Pakistani

Jackdaws said:


> Lol. Whatever makes you feel better about your past, present and future.



Same goes to you jack...lol

Keep living in your artificial supa pawa's artificial orgasms...


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## Champion_Usmani

*Soldier’s Funeral Reveals India’s Outsize, Outcaste Problem*

Earlier this week, when upper-caste villagers in the western UP district of Firozabad tried to prevent the funeral of a Dalit paramilitary soldier killed in a terrorist ambush, it was the latest manifestation of widespread discrimination against the 305 million Indians belonging to scheduled castes and scheduled tribes.

https://thewire.in/rights/discrimination-soldiers-funeral-reveals-indias-outsize-outcaste-problem

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## AHMED85

Mustang06 said:


> Isn't this dog dead?


Indian army killing thousands of freedom fighters. 

Get transparent referendum under UK[emoji636], USA[emoji1258] umbrella because these freedom fighters would tighten all loose screws of [emoji1128]Indian Army [emoji23]. You better knew about that IED is more powerful then any Assembly declaration as well as Army.


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## AHMED85

Corona said:


> Not really. There has to be something better for both of us.


So you will using Nuclear Missile. Indian Gen is a big Pussy Cat [emoji38]


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## Champion_Usmani

*Pulwama attack fallout: Kashmiri students in Dehradun allege attacks by Bajrang Dal, VHP activists*

“It is not possible to bring such massive amounts of explosives by infiltrating the border,” said Lt. Gen. D.S. Hooda, an army commander.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/world/asia/kashmir-attack-pulwama.html

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096838091984166912
The world must wake up...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096850837911949312


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## Champion_Usmani

See the modi electorate was declining rapidly, he, BJP (Extremist zionist hindu regime) needed something big to force entire Indian crowd rally behind him (they have done it successfully), Indian establishment want Modi win 2019 elections by hook or by crook, so we can see that now, even BJP's opposition i.e Congress etc. had no other option to sing in sync & in chorus with BJP.

This is the long tested recipe, this is what BJP did in 2002 Gujarat for political gains, now modi will have to do something big/visible in order to sustain the support he is getting from indian public, whether imaginary (like 2016 fake surgical strike) or something real.

We are currently in first phase, where indian regime is creating atmosphere in favour of them in the world, for upcoming hostilities using aggressive diplomacy, so that the major world powers support their ambitions in the name of self defence, we know indians have strong clout at world forums due to strong diplomatic support of USA, Israel & UK.

My personal opinion is that india may/will resort to any adventure after MBS visit to new Delhi, until then we will see only hostile rhetoric & diplomacy from indians.

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## maximuswarrior

Champion_Usmani said:


> See the modi electorate was declining rapidly, he, BJP (Extremist zionist hindu regime) needed something big to force entire Indian crowd rally behind him (they have done it successfully), Indian establishment want Modi win 2019 elections by hook or by crook, so we can see that now, even BJP's opposition i.e Congress etc. had no other option to sing in sync & in chorus with BJP.
> 
> This is the long tested recipe, this is what BJP did in 2002 Gujarat for political gains, now modi will have to do something big/visible in order to sustain the support he is getting from indian public, whether imaginary (like 2016 fake surgical strike) or something real.
> 
> We are currently in first phase, where indian regime is creating atmosphere in favour of them in the world, for upcoming hostilities using aggressive diplomacy, so that the major world powers support their ambitions in the name of self defence, we know indians have strong clout at world forums due to strong diplomatic support of USA, Israel & UK.
> 
> My personal opinion is that india may/will resort to any adventure after MBS visit to new Delhi, until then we will see only hostile rhetoric & diplomacy from indians.



This is a good post. We need to be at the highest alert.


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## nair

Operation Asifa.... Named by whom? PDFians? Mian Masood Azhar? Or by His masters?

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## Champion_Usmani

As expected, Modi want maximum political mileage From Pulwama Attack...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1097181593288859648


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## Hellfire

@Arsalan 345 
Page 28 #415

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## GHALIB

nair said:


> Operation Asifa.... Named by whom? PDFians? Mian Masood Azhar? Or by His masters?


by masters of masood azhar


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