# Taimur: Pakistan's ICBM?



## Windjammer

A lot of stories are circulating regarding Pakistan's Ballistic Missile capabilities, designations such as Hatf, Shaheen, Ghauri and Babur have virtually become house hold names, but others such as Tipu and Taimur have also have been mentioned in certain circles particularly Taimur, which was even mentioned by Rumsfeld Commission.
Smoke screen or a raging fire. ?

http://www.daily.pk/Pakistans-nuclear-arsenal-is-expanding-faster-than-any-other-nations9780/-

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## Windjammer

Shaheen-3 LV, Gallery

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## Awesome

Nothing credible. Only rumours.

Wait till an actual launch to speculate on these matters.

I've heard of many platforms that have not been proven. Haider, Tipu being the most famous of these speculations.

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## Windjammer

The names Tipu and particularly Taimur have been in news for at least a decade, in my conversation with the editor of a Pakistan English daily, the gentleman was of the same view as he acknowledged that he has also received rumors from certain quarters.


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## Chanakyaa

Well, Until Pakistan doesnt aim to attak US or Europe They dont need it.
It makes sense that they are regularly testing their current missiles for better performance.

Plus, ICBM for Pakistan will be a gr8 Political issue across the globe.
Even Uncle SAM will be feeling Threat.


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## graphican

We are just doing it for fun.. 

Just a thought that ICBM could be enhanced to be used for Space-War, getting down the enemy spy and communication satellites.. but not sure if that is the intention behind that. But in my opinion, instead of ICBMs, we need to produce better and more advanced cruise missiles that could rip the cities within a circle of 3500-4000 KM apart. We don't have anybody to kill beyond this diameter.

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## Kompromat

XiNiX said:


> Well, Until Pakistan doesnt aim to attak US or Europe They dont need it.
> It makes sense that they are regularly testing their current missiles for better performance.
> 
> Plus, ICBM for Pakistan will be a gr8 Political issue across the globe.
> Even Uncle SAM will be feeling Threat.



we do not pose any threat to anyone by testing an ICBM , i have had some info from my sources but it is too early to disclose at least we would like to say that PK does have an ICBM programe.
It would be for greater defence capibility and also to step into space age, Uncle sam ? we would not care about them if we have to test a missile because its not the Govt who does that alone on their own

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## Windjammer

XiNiX said:


> Well, Until Pakistan doesnt aim to attak US or Europe They dont need it.
> It makes sense that they are regularly testing their current missiles for better performance.
> 
> Plus, ICBM for Pakistan will be a gr8 Political issue across the globe.
> Even Uncle SAM will be feeling Threat.



Uncle Sam likes to make a song and dance, like when Pakistan managed to wire up it's F-16s to carry and deliver Strategic weapons, Washington sounded alarms, there was perhaps,"you naughty boy" telling off and even wrist slapping with sanctions. Lo and behold, why rely on old capability, here is some brand new plat forms, enter Block-52 Vipers.
In any case, what makes you think, Pakistan gives two monkeys. !!


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## Lethalforce

Both India and Pakistan need ICBM's why should both nations come this far in their missile program and stop so close to the end, an ICBM maybe more necessary than thought, it maybe ok to have missiles to hit your neighbors but what happens when the bigger enemies can hit you and you can't hit them?

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## ajpirzada

today will probably the worst time for any such test.

let US leave the region and this taliban thing to diffuse


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## deckingraj

> we do not pose any threat to anyone by testing an ICBM , i have had some info from my sources but it is too early to disclose at least we would like to say that PK does have an ICBM programe. It would be for greater defence capibility and also to step into space age, Uncle sam ? we would not care about them if we have to test a missile because its not the Govt who does that alone on their own



Sir..if you do not pose any threat to anyone by testing an ICBM than may i ask what are you testing it for??? There can be only two scenarios...Either offensive or defensive in case you want to have an ICBM in your arsenal...can you please point any country that you feel threatened by for which you need ICBM??? Mind it i am just questioning the need to test ICBM....




> Uncle Sam likes to make a song and dance, like when Pakistan managed to wire up it's F-16s to carry and deliver Strategic weapons, Washington sounded alarms, there was perhaps,"you naughty boy" telling off and even wrist slapping with sanctions. Lo and behold, why rely on old capability, here is some brand new plat forms, enter Block-52 Vipers.
> In any case, what makes you think, Pakistan gives two monkeys. !!



Seems like you have no idea of you are talking about...Whenever you talk about F-16's always remember about a dent that it has caused in PAF apart from being the most potent aircraft of PAF....I hope you need to read more about "PAF 1990&#8211;2001: The Lost Decade"




> Both India and Pakistan need ICBM's why should both nations come this far in their missile program and stop so close to the end, an ICBM maybe more necessary than thought, it maybe ok to have missiles to hit your neighbors but what happens when the bigger enemies can hit you and you can't hit them?



Thats what the million dollar question is..Who is this invisible bigger enemies?? What strategic interests that ICBM will serve to India or Pakistan apart from raising eye-brows in international community....You got to know the difference between testing vs possessing capabilities..When and if the need arise you can always test....

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## deckingraj

> Just a thought that ICBM could be enhanced to be used for Space-War, getting down the enemy spy and communication satellites.. but not sure if that is the intention behind that. But in my opinion, instead of ICBMs, we need to produce better and more advanced cruise missiles that could rip the cities within a circle of 3500-4000 KM apart. We don't have anybody to kill beyond this diameter.



As far as cruise missiles is concerned you already have Babur...All you need to do is increase the range if your threat perception needs that..However the range that you are looking for seems to be over-kill...don't you think so??? What specific strategic interests will a 3000-4000 KM range cruise missile will serve??? To me its a waste of resources...and when it comes to country like Pakistan than its sin to waste meagre resources especially when you have a giant as your adversary...


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## Kompromat

Lethalforce said:


> Both India and Pakistan need ICBM's why should both nations come this far in their missile program and stop so close to the end, an ICBM maybe more necessary than thought, it maybe ok to have missiles to hit your neighbors but what happens *when the bigger enemies can hit you and you can't hit them?*



This is the uncertainty which causes such developments , may we need this 7000km missile just as a Panic element for any adversary

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## mshoaib61

There is nothing wrong in creating more sophisticated weapons and changing older weapons into newer and advance versions, when Pakistanis are predicting war clouds in future., and not sure that who will be our next enemy in this current situation.

So we should have something to strike them back, than thinking at the time of conflict that what to do!!

Our army and scientists are professional team and they know what kind of missiles and weapons we need for defensive and offensive purposes in future. I don't think Pakistan should disclose any of such things even in future so we can give surprises to our enemies


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## PakSher

So with the Indian members argument that Pakistan only needs a ICBM if it wants to attack the US or Europe, so is that why India is making it so they may attack the US or Europe. India really does not need more than 3500km to cover China, so why India is doing it. Regarding the meagre resources of Pakistan. At least Pakistan does not have 400 million people living below the poverty line. So what the hell Indians are talking about. Double talk and terrorism behind the shield of democracy.

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## Creder

Even if Pakistan has one, or building one i really think it should be a well guarded secret and not made public. We're in the middle of a war and trying to modernize our military. It wouldnt at all be in Pakistan's interests other than making some fan boys happy.


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## r0ck

Interestingly the following link suggests that 'According to sources' a supposed ICBM 'missile would soon be test fired'. 

Link:
ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily

Although it remains to be seen whether this proves as an actual fact or just another speculative story by rumor-mill productions.


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## T-Rex

PakSher said:


> So with the Indian members argument that Pakistan only needs a ICBM if it wants to attack the US or Europe, so is that why India is making it so they may attack the US or Europe. India really does not need more than 3500km to cover China, so why India is doing it. Regarding the meagre resources of Pakistan. At least Pakistan does not have 400 million people living below the poverty line and also India also has 4.5 million child prostitues. So what the hell Indians are talking about. Double talk and terrorism behind the shield of democracy. Ban these bastaardssssss from the forum.



A valid point but certainly the Indians are not honest enough to acknowledge this. They will at this point most probably say that they don't have such a programme. In any case it's useless arguing with those who intend to be prejudiced.


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## 592257001

XiNiX said:


> Well, Until Pakistan doesnt aim to attak US or Europe They dont need it.
> It makes sense that they are regularly testing their current missiles for better performance.
> 
> Plus, ICBM for Pakistan will be a gr8 Political issue across the globe.
> Even Uncle SAM will be feeling Threat.



Isn't India also developing ICBMs? Should other countries be threatened 2?


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## kashith

PakSher said:


> So with the Indian members argument that Pakistan only needs a ICBM if it wants to attack the US or Europe, so is that why India is making it so they may attack the US or Europe. India really does not need more than 3500km to cover China, so why India is doing it. Regarding the meagre resources of Pakistan. At least Pakistan does not have 400 million people living below the poverty line and also India also has 4.5 million child prostitues. So what the hell Indians are talking about. Double talk and terrorism behind the shield of democracy. Ban these bastaardssssss from the forum.



Today itself a news article has been posted on the forum that a women was sold in Pakistan.Pakistan has got more people below poverty line than India has.India needs an SLBM to have second strike capability against China.Totally defensive posturing for India.Please post in a dignified language.


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## PAFAce

Pakistan's ICBM program will surely raise concerns, however, that still does not take away from our rights to pursue this path if deemed necessary. Pakistan is increasingly being used as a pawn in international politics, and a revelation that we are building ICBM and/or Space Launch capabilities would one very solid warning statement. I would whole-heartedly support such a program, especially if the focus is primarily on Space Launch capability.

This said, it is difficult to justify the resources required for such a venture when the greatest threats we face are close to home. I would rather spend these resources on the enhancement, modernization and indigenization of other capabilities. For example, a recent thread about Surface-to-Air capabilities of PAF and PA made me realize the importance of Air Defence in Pakistan's military doctrine. The development or acquisition with ToT of a solid medium and long range Air Defence weapon is essential to protecting Pakistani assets. This goal, in my opinion, is far more justifiable, especially considering the Armed Forces' current doctrine.



kashith said:


> Today itself a news article has been posted on the forum that a women was sold in Pakistan*.Pakistan has got more people below poverty line than India has.*India needs an SLBM to have second strike capability against China.*Totally defensive posturing for India.Please post in a dignified language.*



So much misinformation in such a small reply. 

Firstly:
Pakistani population below the international poverty line: 24&#37;
Indian population below the national poverty like: 25%
Indian population below the international poverty line: 30%

Now, 25% of 1.2 Billion makes almost 300 Million people. That is more than all of Pakistan's population combined (app. 180 Million).

However, this argument is petty. Poverty is a problem on both sides, and I hope both sides can resolve the matter for the interests of the nation and the region.

Secondly:
India's posturing against China is not at all defensive. India has increased the pace of military installations and military base establishment near the Chinese borders in the past decade, despite the fact that China has not done so. India's posturing against China is primarily to justify the accelerated arms build-up, so it is necessary to provoke a response from China to validate the justification. Hence, we see India increasingly stating that China is a threat to India, despite the fact that China has barely ever shown any intention of militarily engaging with India since the Sino-Indian war in 1962.

But of course, you won't buy any of this because to you, China is a legitimate "threat" because Zee TV says so.

Lastly:
The story about the woman being sold does not represent Pakistan. Weird stories come out of everywhere, I'm sure if we were to open a thread to discuss all the BS that goes on in India it would take up half the dedicated bandwidth of this Forum, and thus drive *WebMaster* pretty crazy. So let's keep the petty finger pointing to a minimum.

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## T-50

PAFAce said:


> Pakistan's ICBM program will surely raise concerns, however, that still does not take away from our rights to pursue this path if deemed necessary. Pakistan is increasingly being used as a pawn in international politics, and a revelation that we are building ICBM and/or Space Launch capabilities would one very solid warning statement. I would whole-heartedly support such a program, especially if the focus is primarily on Space Launch capability.
> 
> This said, it is difficult to justify the resources required for such a venture when the greatest threats we face are close to home. I would rather spend these resources on the enhancement, modernization and indigenization of other capabilities. For example, a recent thread about Surface-to-Air capabilities of PAF and PA made me realize the importance of Air Defence in Pakistan's military doctrine. The development or acquisition with ToT of a solid medium and long range Air Defence weapon is essential to protecting Pakistani assets. This goal, in my opinion, is far more justifiable, especially considering the Armed Forces' current doctrine.
> 
> 
> 
> So much misinformation in such a small reply.
> 
> Firstly:
> Pakistani population below the international poverty line: 24%
> Indian population below the national poverty like: 25%
> Indian population below the international poverty line: 30%
> 
> Now, 25% of 1.2 Billion makes almost 300 Million people. That is more than all of Pakistan's population combined (app. 180 Million).
> 
> However, this argument is petty. Poverty is a problem on both sides, and I hope both sides can resolve the matter for the interests of the nation and the region.
> 
> Secondly:
> India's posturing against China is not at all defensive. India has increased the pace of military installations and military base establishment near the Chinese borders in the past decade, despite the fact that China has not done so. India's posturing against China is primarily to justify the accelerated arms build-up, so it is necessary to provoke a response from China to validate the justification. Hence, we see India increasingly stating that China is a threat to India, despite the fact that China has barely ever shown any intention of militarily engaging with India since the Sino-Indian war in 1962.
> 
> But of course, you won't buy any of this because to you, China is a legitimate "threat" because Zee TV says so.
> 
> Lastly:
> The story about the woman being sold does not represent Pakistan. Weird stories come out of everywhere, I'm sure if we were to open a thread to discuss all the BS that goes on in India it would take up half the dedicated bandwidth of this Forum, and thus drive *WebMaster* pretty crazy. So let's keep the petty finger pointing to a minimum.



Thats why China already target and deployed 1000's their Missile towards India, Medium range and short range from Tibet  

Unsettled border dispute , deployment of Army during kargil War shows China , Proliferation of its bomb blue print and First use to Nuclear Weapon , all this indicate to threat, 

More over No country or US engaged china in war so why china spending and building army?


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## duhastmish

ICBM means they can attack - us , europe , china etc. 

now why would you want to cut your feeding hands ? pakistan is not that idiot to get in such a big trouble. Making an icbm is not as big a issue that facing the consequences.


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## Sinnerman108

duhastmish said:


> ICBM means they can attack - us , europe , china etc.
> 
> now why would you want to cut your feeding hands ? pakistan is not that idiot to get in such a big trouble. Making an icbm is not as big a issue that facing the consequences.



True and agreed.
however counter argument may be, that if Israel can be kept on her toes, and jumpy  
this would give more room for diplomacy


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## duhastmish

salman108 said:


> True and agreed.
> however counter argument may be, that if Israel can be kept on her toes, and jumpy
> this would give more room for diplomacy



There is not so much friction between israel and pakistan that pakistan have to take such evasive step. 

i truly believe that - pakistan's defense needs are based on close range. and ICBM is tough but not all that impossible task to build. Pakistan dotn have and dont want to have enemy that far away,


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## mean_bird

If there is one already, we won't (or shouldnt) reveal it until pakistan is in real danger like a war with US is imminent.

its like those childhood fairy tales you hear where a Jinn (Genie) or some Strong influential man has his rooh (soul/spirit) in a tota (parrot) and the other guys get hold of the parrot. 

Well its same with US who has its soul in Israel. As long as you can prove that you can hit Israel, you are safe from US so if this Taimur can strike Israel, we have nothing to worry from US.

More seriously though, its pretty unlikely we will openly display an ICBM even if we have one. May be the best option would be to develop a SLV though even that will raise concerns amongst those with technical understandings but on the face of it looks innocent enough.

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## Skies

Why should rich countries have all the funs?!

Any technological achievement by PAK is welcomed.
If they have poverty then they will bring pride to the nation also by technological achievements.

Remember, every country can not do these and they are icon to the Muslim
world in this regard (Military achievements).

I appreciate their future projects.

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## Windjammer

duhastmish said:


> ICBM means they can attack - us , europe , china etc.
> 
> now why would you want to cut your feeding hands ? pakistan is not that idiot to get in such a big trouble. Making an icbm is not as big a issue that facing the consequences.



Every country has it's defensive requirements and they execute them as they deem fit.


http://www.armscontrol.at/wp-content/senate_icbm_whitepaper.gif


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## Naradmuni

> Taimur Pakistan's ICBM. ?



No. Not for now at least.

Taimur?? You dont have it, you dont need it and more importantly you cant affort it (both in terms of cost and the inevitable International reaction).

I guess pakistanis are pretty obsessed with missiles and stuffs more than anything else. 

Would be glad to see them have similar obsession with space tech, IT, agricultural revolution etc.


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## Stealth

Narad said:


> No. Not for now at least.
> 
> Taimur?? You dont have it, you dont need it and more importantly you cant affort it (both in terms of cost and the inevitable International reaction).
> 
> I guess pakistanis are pretty obsessed with missiles and stuffs more than anything else.
> 
> Would be glad to see them have similar obsession with space tech, IT, agricultural revolution etc.


*
Dont tel us how much we are capable for ... we already made NUCLEAR Missile out of ur imagination so dont care about us we know how to make ICBM!*


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## Super Falcon

is it true pakistan will build similar missile as taimur


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## baba firangi

Stealth said:


> *
> Dont tel us how much we are capable for ... we already made NUCLEAR Missile out of ur imagination so dont care about us we know how to make ICBM!*



Out of our imagination?.. Fair enough.. But isn't it that programs as intensive as ICBMs and even space launch vehicles require infrastructures and industrial inputs most of which are absolutely absent in Pakistan.. Lets say, how many heavy industries are there in Pakistan that can handle projects this mammoth? What is the scope of your industrial scientific input when your domestic industry isn't even capable of producing its own cars, tractors and commercial vehicles.. Forget cars, how many bicycles do you produce per year? How many reputed electronics and telecom brands have set up their manufacturing facilities in your country?.. Please would you care to throw some light on your domestic capability to undertake such defence and engineering projects? or if you are happy with your rhetoric, then, very well... Kudos to your ICBM program..


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## rohailmalhi

Bro i we can make atomic bomb without being capable of making cars, tractors,bicycle or even the needle tht doesnt matter. We  always did things which seem impossible to the world, so if we want to make ICBM we will make it .

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## Super Falcon

agreed but when do we make


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## TechLahore

baba firangi said:


> Out of our imagination?.. Fair enough.. But isn't it that programs as intensive as ICBMs and even space launch vehicles require infrastructures and industrial inputs most of which are absolutely absent in Pakistan.. Lets say, how many heavy industries are there in Pakistan that can handle projects this mammoth? What is the scope of your industrial scientific input when your domestic industry isn't even capable of producing its own cars, tractors and commercial vehicles.. Forget cars, how many bicycles do you produce per year? How many reputed electronics and telecom brands have set up their manufacturing facilities in your country?.. Please would you care to throw some light on your domestic capability to undertake such defence and engineering projects? or if you are happy with your rhetoric, then, very well... Kudos to your ICBM program..



What world are you living in? You really do have your head buried in the sand... or wherever.

Pakistan produces almost its entire domestic requirement for bicycles, and has been doing so since decades. Sohrab cycles are amongst the most popular. BMX/sports cycles are manufactured by Dawood Hercules. We also produce motorcycles in a variety of fully locally owned factories... everything from engine production up. Electric vehicle production has also started in Pakistan. Faraz Khan's Karachi based startup produced a concept vehicle based on the Pakistani-produced Mehran car, called Elektra I. Faraz' concern is now going to produce a much improved, custom built vehicle known as Elektra II. The entire spectrum of small-large enterprises; everything from billion+ $ industrial giants such as Dawood group and small startups like Faraz Khan's company are working every day to spur innovation in Pakistan.

More than 80&#37; of the cars used in Pakistan are manufactured domestically. Pakistan has completely domestically designed and manufactured cars, such as the Adam Revo or Proficient trucks, as well as joint ventures such as Pak Suzuki, Toyota, Honda (Atlas group), Hyundai and Kia (with Deewan Group) etc. Many of these Korean/Japanese joint ventures are manufactured in Pakistan, not just assembled.

Pakistan's Millat Tractors have the largest market share for tractors in Pakistan. I have personally seen the smallest components that go into these tractors being produced from scratch in extrusion machines, on lathes and assembly lines. Hino-Pak manufactures tens of thousands of trucks for civil and military uses. 

Coming to heavy mechanical and R&D capabilities, the NDC alone employs 35,000 scientists and engineers. KRL employs a similar number. The HRF in Taxila is not a factory but a series of towns full of electrical and mechanical factories. Pakistan's SUPARCO launched its domestic rocketry program in the 60s with sounding rockets, and then domestically produced Badr I, the first Pakistani satellite, in the 80s. It was launched in June 1990 on board a Chinese SLV. Two dozen Pakistani physicists and scientists are working on the Super Collider project. And this is just a small sliver of the government sector... we haven't even gotten to Kamra, KSY, NUST or any of these other institutions.

Pakistan Telecom's Hazara plant manufactures telecom, computer and exchange equipment including PCB design, layout, multi-layer board production, pick and place, mechanical design for enclosures, production of plastic and metal enclosures (ABS, extrusion etc.) from scratch. Private sector companies such as Inbox, Raffles and Viper assemble PCs (increasing locally manufactured components, for example, some boards are now assembled from raw components). Pakistan's Five Rivers Technologies has designed and produced a handheld computer from scratch including producing PCBs locally. Mentor Graphics in Lahore produces FPGA, board design and a variety of other electronic products for Mentor Graphics US, PalmChip in Lahore also does electronic design and manufacturing. DWP Group produces Samsung LCD televisions in their Multan Road factory... the list goes on and on. 

Chinese cell phone from-scratch manufacturing is now starting up in Pakistan. Joint ventures between China and Pakistan, such as the one between Dong Feng, or Qingqi, have also yielded full domestic production of trucks, cars, CNG vans etc. In fact, Pakistan has the largest number of CNG vehicles of any country in the world. 

For more, please visit this link which provides a list of other accomplishments complete with citations. 

So please, educate yourself before blathering about something you are clearly not in the know of.

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## mean_bird

baba firangi said:


> Out of our imagination?.. Fair enough.. But isn't it that programs as intensive as ICBMs and even space launch vehicles require infrastructures and industrial inputs most of which are absolutely absent in Pakistan.. Lets say, how many heavy industries are there in Pakistan that can handle projects this mammoth? What is the scope of your industrial scientific input when your domestic industry isn't even capable of producing its own cars, tractors and commercial vehicles.. Forget cars, how many bicycles do you produce per year? How many reputed electronics and telecom brands have set up their manufacturing facilities in your country?.. Please would you care to throw some light on your domestic capability to undertake such defence and engineering projects? or if you are happy with your rhetoric, then, very well... Kudos to your ICBM program..




The same industries that made Shaheen-II and Babur and Ra'ad. Building an ICBM is not much difficult if you have multiple stage boosters technology using solid state fuels which the shaheen has. Similarly, in my opinion though I'm not an expert, building a 4000-5000km missile is probably the same or less complicated than building a 700km cruise missile. 

We do have heavy mechanical and electrical complex (in taxila), the air weapons complex, the steel mills, etc and labs such as KRL, NESCOM, SUPARCO, PAEC, etc are quite capable of doing it. 

Building cars, bikes, or needles is another matter. Its a competition and private investors have to face it. Private investment, taking risk, being able to make better things at a lesser price dictates businesses, marketing, etc are required for those. For military equipments on the other hand, things are different. For ICBMS, the investors are govts and the products do not compete for price in the market. And believe it or not, most parts used are off-the-shelf stuff freely available.

Oh and btw, we do make bicycles and motorcycles and even cars. What we lack are big business tycoons that can afford the initial investment required for setting up new brands but thats another story altogether.

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## TechLahore

UchihaCG said:


> Your post proves nothing........



Au contraire. It proves that you do not comprehend the discussion.


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## baba firangi

> Your post proves nothing........



No brother, it actually does.. If you cut off the first and the last lines, the post is very informative..


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I suppose Pakistan wanted to develop its Space Technology program further, and it only comes after you master multi stage , booster technology to speed up a settelite out of orbit etc


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## notorious_eagle

baba firangi said:


> Out of our imagination?.. Fair enough.. But isn't it that programs as intensive as ICBMs and even space launch vehicles require infrastructures and industrial inputs most of which are absolutely absent in Pakistan.. Lets say, how many heavy industries are there in Pakistan that can handle projects this mammoth? What is the scope of your industrial scientific input when your domestic industry isn't even capable of producing its own cars, tractors and commercial vehicles.. Forget cars, how many bicycles do you produce per year? How many reputed electronics and telecom brands have set up their manufacturing facilities in your country?.. Please would you care to throw some light on your domestic capability to undertake such defence and engineering projects? or if you are happy with your rhetoric, then, very well... Kudos to your ICBM program..



Indian Propaganda is really taking a toll on average Indians.

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## Evil Flare

oye BABA FIRANGI Troller


come on here & Resume the Discussion ..... 

Your each & Every Point is Gone BUSTED ...


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## UchihaCG

notorious_eagle said:


> Indian Propaganda is really taking a toll on average Indians.



Building an ICBM isn't easy. I won't challenge your scientists brains, but you have no economy to support $$ for research.


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## antartica

The thing is not that Whether its developed by Pakistanis or not . but the thing is that they have it .


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## HMZ

Pakistan Nuclear Arsenal Is One Of The Finest In Whole World. Nuclear Weapons Are Added To Inventory Before Their Test ,Visible To Any Other Nation.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I don't think Pakistan is ever interested in any wars - but technological advancement is means to defend borders


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## TexasJohn

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I don't think Pakistan is ever interested in any wars - but technological advancement is means to defend borders



You already have the means to defend your borders.

I will address this to all my Pakistani gung-ho buddies, and to my Indian gung-ho buddies as well, as it also holds true for India.

Let's says Pakistan builds/ buys a 7,000 km missile ( and nuclear tipped to boot).

Who exactly are you going to/ can you nuke? you don't need that kind of range for India.

So....

nuke Israel? their response will vaporize you.

Western Europe? NATO will vaporize you.

Eastern Europe? Putin will vaporize you.

China? nuff said.

What is the point of the money spent?

To the Indians - they don't HAVE to develop the infrastructure if someone (China / N.Korea) will sell them one.

Point is they can't use it against anyone. That's a lot of money to pay for a wet dream.

No offense intended...


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## VelocuR

self delete


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## TexasJohn

StealthQL-707PK said:


> ^Sir, you have made some errors here. Please do research first before posting here.
> 
> Never underestimate Pakistan or India's Nuclear capabilities.
> 
> Our _nuclear-capable_ Shaheen II missile is reached between 3,000km to 3,500km so it will be upgraded to 4,500km. Same as India.
> 
> What exactly going on your own country's Nuke (12,000km) ? whom?
> 
> 
> 
> It is saying _whomever is threat_ to Pakistan except China. Not only neighbor, there is another possible enemy (tiny country) the world know it very well.
> 
> It is our interest to defend borders always and secure !



Not quite sure what you tried to say there.

Yes, I did do my research. Can you answer my basic question - who is Pakistan going to nuke 7,000kms away? and what would be the consequences? Please read my post. 

It is cool to be a nationalist, btw.


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## Gin ka Pakistan

TexasJohn said:


> Not quite sure what you tried to say there.
> 
> Yes, I did do my research. Can you answer my basic question - who is Pakistan going to nuke 7,000kms away? and what would be the consequences? Please read my post.
> 
> It is cool to be a nationalist, btw.



It can be use for civil purpose , like launching satellites , any how all the world satellites which were send to space during 70s and 80s are completing their life cycle and world needs hundreds of new one's with in ten years so commercial use for it. 

and as that tiny country is concern it will be defense against any adventures from them example: thanks to CIA  in time info, Pakistan was saved from their attacked from the eastern boarders on its Assets.


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## unicorn148

i think Pakistan should concentrate more on space tech rather than building ICBM's because it doesnt require an ICBM in any case


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## UchihaCG

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> It can be use for civil purpose , like launching satellites , any how all the world satellites which were send to space during 70s and 80s are completing their life cycle and world needs hundreds of new one's with in ten years so commercial use for it.



You need to develop a satellite launch vehicle then. How much sense does this make to develop a missile then use it's technology for launching satellites.  

And so what if the satellites are completing their life cycles? Pakistan developing this missile tech won't help anyone, because first you need to "start" your space program... 

SUPARCO


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## Windjammer

UchihaCG said:


> SUPARCO



And we have DRDO, the last name in success.


TECHNOLOGY-INDIA: Exposed by Dud Missile, Space Vehicle Crash - IPS ipsnews.net


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## UchihaCG

Windjammer said:


> And we have DRDO, the last name in success.
> 
> 
> TECHNOLOGY-INDIA: Exposed by Dud Missile, Space Vehicle Crash - IPS ipsnews.net



Best I leave arguing with you because all you do is list India's failures.

That article may have helped in satisfying your ego , but that article doesn't stop INDIA from developing. That doesn't make ISRO from being one of the best space agencies.  oh.. and more importantly: THIS STILL DOESN'T SHOW ME HOW MUCH PAKISTAN IS PROGRESSING. SO quit wasting time trying to tell us, LCA, ARJUN, AGNI ETC are failures bro, because those failures; we have learned from. And that's one better than what Pakistan has done.---Absolutely nothing.


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## Windjammer

UchihaCG said:


> Best I leave arguing with you because all you do is list India's failures.
> 
> That article may have helped in satisfying your ego , but that article doesn't stop INDIA from developing. That doesn't make ISRO from being one of the best space agencies.  oh.. and more importantly: THIS STILL DOESN'T SHOW ME HOW MUCH PAKISTAN IS PROGRESSING. SO quit wasting time trying to tell us, LCA, ARJUN, AGNI ETC are failures bro, because those failures; we have learned from. And that's one better than what Pakistan has done.---Absolutely nothing.


Well blow me, if i even mentioned the likes of LCA, Arjun or Agni.
Since you found SUPARCO so amusing, suffice to mention your DRDO is not exactly an admirable example. And in comparison to above, the likes of AL-Khalid, JF-17, Ghauri, Shaheen, Babur, Anza, Green Arrow etc etc have been a success story. Pakistan's space and satellite projects may be in initial stages but then don't forget it's nuclear and missile programme was at one time way behind India's. The rest my dear is history. REGARDS.


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## UchihaCG

Windjammer said:


> Well blow me, if i even mentioned the likes of LCA, Arjun or Agni.
> Since you found SUPARCO so amusing, suffice to mention your DRDO is not exactly an admirable example. And in comparison to above, the likes of AL-Khalid, JF-17, Ghauri, Shaheen, Babur, Anza, Green Arrow etc etc have been a success story. Pakistan's space and satellite projects may be in initial stages but then don't forget it's nuclear and missile programme was at one time way behind India's. The rest my dear is history. REGARDS.



DRDO is not the name of our space program sir.  
India too has it's own successes. But we don't boast too much about them (like you guys do ) because we focus more on going forward.

Since you say, here's a small list:
PAD
AAD
Brahmos
Sagarika
Shaurya
Akash
INS Arihant 
Delhi Class 
Shivalik

more =)

And i haven't said anything wrong... Yes, you do need to develop your space program. Period. You brought up the DRDO BS. No need.


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## Windjammer

^^^^^^
TECHNOLOGY-INDIA: Exposed by Dud Missile, Space Vehicle Crash

This was the title of the topic i posted, now it's an other matter your DRDO (BS as you refer to it) was included in the report.

Before being humble , check out the claims on this forum by your country fellows.


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## ARSENAL6

UchihaCG said:


> DRDO is not the name of our space program sir.
> India too has it's own successes. But we don't boast too much about them (like you guys do ) because we focus more on going forward.
> 
> Since you say, here's a small list:
> PAD
> AAD
> Brahmos
> Sagarika
> Shaurya
> Akash
> INS Arihant
> Delhi Class
> Shivalik
> 
> more =)
> 
> And i haven't said anything wrong... Yes, you do need to develop your space program. Period. You brought up the DRDO BS. No need.



what do you mean you don't boast ?
YOU CAN'T BOAST BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T ACHIEVE ANYTHING
polease quit you're lies about that your country doesn't boast 
as soon as you beat pakistan in a war we don't hear the end of it no matter how insugnifficant it was !


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## UchihaCG

ARSENAL6 said:


> what do you mean you don't boast ?
> YOU CAN'T BOAST BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T ACHIEVE ANYTHING
> polease quit you're lies about that your country doesn't boast
> as soon as you beat pakistan in a war we don't hear the end of it no matter how insugnifficant it was !



 You're right. We haven't accomplished anything.
Those above are just our wet dreams.

 to Pakistan. So much accomplished.

Anyone have specs for this planned/rumored ICBM?


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## kamikhan

this is one missile that has been exciting me since I heard about it. But I think pakistan will go step by step like ghauri-I, then shaheen-I, then ghouri 2 then shaheen 2 so it should be ghouri 3 or shaheen 3 of around 3000-3500km range before we go for this one. 

what is your opinion on this? 

But nowadays missile tests have dried up completely


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## PAFAce

TexasJohn said:


> Not quite sure what you tried to say there.
> 
> Yes, I did do my research. Can you answer my basic question - who is Pakistan going to nuke 7,000kms away? and what would be the consequences? Please read my post.
> 
> It is cool to be a nationalist, btw.



Well, *TexasJohn*, the question could be asked as to why the United States likes to maintain an ICBM arsenal, why Russia just tested an ICBM recently, by China has 2 different types of operational ICBMs with another already in development and why India has an ICBM program by the name of Surya. But of course, every country will justify its endevours by stating perceived threats, and Pakistan, of all these countries, faces _the most_ conventional and unconventional threats today, many of them, to an extent, due to unnecessary international interference in the region. Pakistan would progress with an ICBM program for its safety, and the question we're asking isn't "why" or "why not", it's "when, what and at what cost".

I, personally, do not think that the need for an ICBM is more immediate or severe than that for, say, Space Launch capability for medium-sized satellite type payloads. However, Ballistic Missile development is already something we have mastered well over the years; Aerospace, unfortunately, isn't. With limited resources, I guess it makes more sense to stick with what you know and develop it further for increased depth in capabilities, and later on, when things improve, adapt what you have developed to expand your breadth of capabilities. Really, there are many credible arguments for-and-against such a venture, but " you can't" or "you won't due to international pressure" are not one of them. I am quite sure such a venture is underway, the program's been in discussion for quite a few years now, and many Army officers have little doubt that it exists.

*Edit*
I think Vladimir Putin's recent statements below convey some my points. Pakistan is no Russia, of course, and our offensive objectived are not nearly the same, but we're no less concerned about our safety from the "outside" - not just in military affairs but also in international and regional economics, politics, relations etc.

_"To preserve the balance, we must develop offensive weapons systems, not missiles defence systems as the United States is doing... By building such an umbrella over themselves our partners could feel themselves fully secure and will do whatever they want, which upsets the balance and aggressiveness immediately increases in real politics and economics."_
http://www.france24.com/en/20091229-russia-putin-offensive-arms-missile-defence-usa-preserve-balance


kamikhan said:


> it should be ghouri 3 or shaheen 3 of around 3000-3500km range before we go for this one.
> 
> But nowadays missile tests have dried up completely


Development of Ghauri-III is believed to have been completed, but not tested, for obvious reasons. Also, it's not very difficult to understand why missile tests have "dried up". It does't make me sad at all; if anything, I'm optimistic.

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## Skies

TexasJohn said:


> Who exactly are you going to/ can you nuke? you don't need that kind of range for India.
> 
> So....
> 
> nuke Israel? their response will vaporize you.
> 
> Western Europe? NATO will vaporize you.
> 
> Eastern Europe? Putin will vaporize you.
> 
> No offense intended...



Simple questions: 

# Why USA want to build missile shield in Europe? 

# Who will attack them?

# Don't u think that they will vaporize also if USA attacked some how?

# Dose USA still spends lot of dollars in defence just because they are rich? Though they already build very advanced defence system?

# I believe many counties feel unsafe for USA, that's why still Russia, Venezuela, Iran, North-Korea also may others have to spend lot of dollars for their defence but they could use those dollars in other beneficial purposes.

# So if you have concern about you country even after having all advanced defence equipments then we also have concern about our beloved countries since we are far far behind form the giants.


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## TaimiKhan

TexasJohn said:


> Not quite sure what you tried to say there.
> 
> Yes, I did do my research. Can you answer my basic question - who is Pakistan going to nuke 7,000kms away? and what would be the consequences? Please read my post.
> 
> It is cool to be a nationalist, btw.



Just a point to wonder, did US or Iran back in 70s when they were best buddies ever thought that one day a few years from now they will become arch enemies of each other and will be talking of war or making plans to go to war and bomb Iran ?? Had NATO ever thought that one day they will be deploying in Afghanistan and fighting a COIN war or become an occupying forces, rather they were formed to counter Russia and invasion from the East. 

Had we ever thought that US will come to the borders of Pakistan and one day it will bomb a Pakistani post killing 11+ Pakistani soldiers within its own country or do drone strikes and threaten it with retaliation or hatch conspiracies against Pakistan or Pakistani troops firing at US helicopters intruding in its airspace ? 

So point is, that present is in front of us, not Future. And based on present we can predict future relations but there is no 100% guarantee that what we thought today would be tomorrow too. 

So today we may not have an enemy 3000KM away, but tomorrow we may have an enemy, so better we prepare from now rather then caught with our pants down.

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## Skies

@pak

Since, no one can predicts the provable future conflicts so taking caution will be the best way.
As wise can see/guess the future, so do the best. I am sure that making advanced sys is not any wrong decision for Pak.

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## pak-yes

> Just a point to wonder, did US or Iran back in 70s when they were best buddies ever thought that one day a few years from now they will become arch enemies of each other and will be talking of war or making plans to go to war and bomb Iran ?? Had NATO ever thought that one day they will be deploying in Afghanistan and fighting a COIN war or become an occupying forces, rather they were formed to counter Russia and invasion from the East.
> 
> Had we ever thought that US will come to the borders of Pakistan and one day it will bomb a Pakistani post killing 11+ Pakistani soldiers within its own country or do drone strikes and threaten it with retaliation or hatch conspiracies against Pakistan or Pakistani troops firing at US helicopters intruding in its airspace ?
> 
> So point is, that present is in front of us, not Future. And based on present we can predict future relations but there is no 100&#37; guarantee that what we thought today would be tomorrow too.
> 
> So today we may not have an enemy 3000KM away, but tomorrow we may have an enemy, so better we prepare from now rather then caught with our pants down.



I totally agree with you we must must must have advanced ICBM technology.you don't know who will become your enemy tomorrow so better be prepared.


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## TexasJohn

taimikhan said:


> Just a point to wonder, did US or Iran back in 70s when they were best buddies ever thought that one day a few years from now they will become arch enemies of each other and will be talking of war or making plans to go to war and bomb Iran ?? Had NATO ever thought that one day they will be deploying in Afghanistan and fighting a COIN war or become an occupying forces, rather they were formed to counter Russia and invasion from the East.
> 
> Had we ever thought that US will come to the borders of Pakistan and one day it will bomb a Pakistani post killing 11+ Pakistani soldiers within its own country or do drone strikes and threaten it with retaliation or hatch conspiracies against Pakistan or Pakistani troops firing at US helicopters intruding in its airspace ?
> 
> So point is, that present is in front of us, not Future. And based on present we can predict future relations but there is no 100% guarantee that what we thought today would be tomorrow too.
> 
> So today we may not have an enemy 3000KM away, but tomorrow we may have an enemy, so better we prepare from now rather then caught with our pants down.



I would agree with you up to a point. No we did not forsee a hostile Iran till 1979 ( 30 years ago), about the same time the "new act in the great game" - Afghanistan started playing itself out. The USSR collapsed under it's own weight. We never had to fight or defeat them. Our ICBMs were mostly for USSR and it's clients, which is now non-existent. That's why we still continue START talks with them. Even today both nations can destroy the world several times over.

I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. ICBMs are good only if you have enough of them. Otherwise the response will be overwhelming against you. Is Pakistan's economy bigger than the USSR's in it's heyday? If not, then it's a waste of time and money. Pakistan really has only one threat perception today - India.

Even in the future, I don't see Pakistan as having global reach - no offense, but very few nations have had that reach. UK and USSR both used to just like the US has today.

So when you start building ICBMs with that range you will draw attention and perhaps a pre-emptive response and it won't be India. You can already hit them now..


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## illuminatus

taimikhan said:


> Just a point to wonder, did US or Iran back in 70s when they were best buddies ever thought that one day a few years from now they will become arch enemies of each other and will be talking of war or making plans to go to war and bomb Iran ?? Had NATO ever thought that one day they will be deploying in Afghanistan and fighting a COIN war or become an occupying forces, rather they were formed to counter Russia and invasion from the East.
> 
> Had we ever thought that US will come to the borders of Pakistan and one day it will bomb a Pakistani post killing 11+ Pakistani soldiers within its own country or do drone strikes and threaten it with retaliation or hatch conspiracies against Pakistan or Pakistani troops firing at US helicopters intruding in its airspace ?
> 
> So point is, that present is in front of us, not Future. And based on present we can predict future relations but there is no 100&#37; guarantee that what we thought today would be tomorrow too.
> 
> *So today we may not have an enemy 3000KM away, but tomorrow we may have an enemy, so better we prepare from now rather then caught with our pants down.*



This illustrates the need for going continental. It's a sensitive matter, but Pakistan cannot afford to be negligent about imminent future threats. The world situation is very dynamic and a lot has happened in the past decade which has affected Pakistan in a very big way. Our so-called Cold War allies are now in our backyard fighting a war with the gun barrel on our shoulders. Threats and intimidation are a harsh reality. The worst Pakistan could do under such circumstances is to remain oblivious and unprepared. ICBMs will act as an insurance policy when things get really nasty. Something that cannot be ruled out at this point. Hint: Safest option would be to opt for the SLV route. Consider it two flies in one clap.


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## Red Dwarf

How easy is to build an ICBM. How smooth is the transformation from an IRBM to an ICBM. Why can't a country which has an IRBM faces difficulties in creating an ICBM. Is this a technical issue or political/strtegic issue.


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## manglasiva

Pakistan should not build ICBM capability.THERZ NO NEED...
if that is intended for Israel,Do u believe Israel will attack Pak so u need deterrence against them ? even if u do a preemptive strike just for eyeing Islamic sympathy and support..what happened to Saddam's scuds weren't they useless..what purpose did they achieve ? other than uncle SAM's anger. 
Since these are long range missiles, they can be tracked in flight and destroyed, so to counter these u need large number of missiles and MRV....Can Pak with a few billion of forex really afford them ? Do u believe international community will sit back idle ?


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## mkiyani

guys keep underestimating Pakistan... Time will tell what happens to paksitan who will vaporize it and so on... easir said then done.. Btw forex rate and money will not go fight war... its the people and will of country which makes the difference... We will die but we will take as many as we can with us...


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## mkiyani

Expect the best Prepare for the worst... and also secure peace only by preparing for war

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## mkiyani

Long Live Pakistan and Long live China


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## AVIAN

mkiyani said:


> guys keep underestimating Pakistan... Time will tell what happens to paksitan who will vaporize it and so on... easir said then done.. Btw forex rate and money will not go fight war... its the people and will of country which makes the difference... We will die but we will take as many as we can with us...



So you seems to have already the lost the war as far as your meaningless comments are concerned. And who said that Forex rate and money will not going to fight the war, it is the money that will bring food and food will enable armed forces to deliver a counter blow.


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## manglasiva

Tons of grass will do to fight a 1000 year war ..Guys be realistic & practical.Pakistan will have a great future if u're leaders have vision..(avoiding tunnel vision thru INDIA !!)

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## ice_man

UchihaCG said:


> You need to develop a satellite launch vehicle then. How much sense does this make to develop a missile then use it's technology for launching satellites.
> 
> And so what if the satellites are completing their life cycles? Pakistan developing this missile tech won't help anyone, because first you need to "start" your space program...
> 
> SUPARCO



very wise my friend!(SARCASTIC) if you read about the demise of the soviet union you would have definitely come across the story of star wars program! it was a fake program of which the documents were specifically leaked to the soviet union reason being make them spend billions in a wild goose chase! 

now the reason why pakistan needs ICBM is exactly the same as why Israel needs a nuclear weapon when none of its ENEMIES have it! germany for sure is not going to attack israel is it? we need ICBM as a weapon to thwart of "enemies" that might have intentions to attack us sitting thousands of miles away! 

but space well that is a battle field that we will let china,india,us & russiafight it out for bragging rights! 

again you have to see our aim is the survival of our FATHERLAND not a world dominance or power projection!


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## mkiyani

AVIAN said:


> So you seems to have already the lost the war as far as your meaningless comments are concerned. And who said that Forex rate and money will not going to fight the war, it is the money that will bring food and food will enable armed forces to deliver a counter blow.



brave hindu will eat and then fight.. food will make u brave hmm... they will not fight if there is no food... i dont want to waste my time on ur stupid stuff ... you are right...


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## rastor

TexasJohn said:


> I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. ICBMs are good only if you have enough of them. Otherwise the response will be overwhelming against you. Is Pakistan's economy bigger than the USSR's in it's heyday? If not, then it's a waste of time and money. Pakistan really has only one threat perception today - India.
> 
> Even in the future, I don't see Pakistan as having global reach - no offense, but very few nations have had that reach. UK and USSR both used to just like the US has today.
> 
> So when you start building ICBMs with that range you will draw attention and perhaps a pre-emptive response and it won't be India. You can already hit them now..



I would speculate that the whole ICBM by pak is nothing more than bluster. ICBMs are extremely expensive and they require entire industries to make almost akin to aircraft carriers. Pak has neither the kind of industry nor the money or maybe even the stomach for such. Also the there is the factor that pak missile capability is not completely indigenous in development.

ICBMs are different from the medium range missiles. Even the advanced ICBMs with the west have an accuracy of about 60%. Pak's planners know their priorities and its highly unlikely they would devout their limited resources to a doomed enterprise and even if they do its even more unlikely that they would get anywhere near a working ICBM given pak's techno-industrial infrastructure.

My 2 cents.


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## Chanakyaa

mkiyani said:


> brave hindu will eat and then fight.. food will make u brave hmm... they will not fight if there is no food... i dont want to waste my time on ur stupid stuff ... you are right...



Firstly It will be Indian Army not The "Hindu" ( as u say ) as Indian Army has Hindus,Muslims,Sikhs and Christians ... all - Indians.

Secondly, Forex and Economy are the reasons why Paklistan has not be able to match up India in terms of the "Numbers". 

On contrary China Beats India on the Same Front due to the same reason, They have More Money and Thus can Make Far more Better Defences.

USSR, had the Superb Massive Northern Fleet unmatched by even USA but after the split, it was Forex and Money that ceased it and Now it can just bark but not bite.. USA has gone Miles ahead.

US doesent have very great Tech ( in 1950s both started from V2s in the Missile Race ) in the First Place but with over $500 Billion Budget you can simply do anything.

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## TaimiKhan

TexasJohn said:


> I would agree with you up to a point. No we did not forsee a hostile Iran till 1979 ( 30 years ago), about the same time the "new act in the great game" - Afghanistan started playing itself out. The USSR collapsed under it's own weight. We never had to fight or defeat them. Our ICBMs were mostly for USSR and it's clients, which is now non-existent. That's why we still continue START talks with them. Even today both nations can destroy the world several times over.
> 
> I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. ICBMs are good only if you have enough of them. Otherwise the response will be overwhelming against you. Is Pakistan's economy bigger than the USSR's in it's heyday? If not, then it's a waste of time and money. Pakistan really has only one threat perception today - India.
> 
> Even in the future, I don't see Pakistan as having global reach - no offense, but very few nations have had that reach. UK and USSR both used to just like the US has today.
> 
> So when you start building ICBMs with that range you will draw attention and perhaps a pre-emptive response and it won't be India. You can already hit them now..



Sir, may I ask who is to be hit by Israel with their Jericho II & III ICBMs ??? All its enemies sit within a few hundred KMs from its borders, then why it is getting a capability which can hit Europe and even US tomorrow, even when it has sufficient capability to annihilate its Arab neighbors who are its enemies ?? Has US or Europe asked them or shown any worries why they are getting these ICBMs ??? Doesn't seems to have a single concern being raised, then why about us ?? We have threatened no one, then why we will have eye brows raised ??? 

To me Israeli ICBMs crossing the 10,000KM mark shows they are thinking Europe and US to be future enemies as there is no other reason/logic to make ICBMs which can potentially target countries which are friendly with Israel today, but Israel may be thinking something else. 

Plus, i did not said we need to raise an Army of ICBMs right now, but keep working on it would be a good idea and mastering this technology would not be a bad. Now we may not be able sustain such kind of force, nor may be having an enemy that far away, but as i said no one knows about the future, who knows tomorrow both things become a reality.


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## TaimiKhan

rastor said:


> I would speculate that the whole ICBM by pak is nothing more than bluster. ICBMs are extremely expensive and they require entire industries to make almost akin to aircraft carriers. Pak has neither the kind of industry nor the money or maybe even the stomach for such. Also the there is the factor that pak missile capability is not completely indigenous in development.
> 
> ICBMs are different from the medium range missiles. Even the advanced ICBMs with the west have an accuracy of about 60%. Pak's planners know their priorities and its highly unlikely they would devout their limited resources to a doomed enterprise and even if they do its even more unlikely that they would get anywhere near a working ICBM given pak's techno-industrial infrastructure.
> 
> My 2 cents.



Same old ignorant remarks and ignorance about Pakistan, its capabilities and intentions. 

I do hope you google up and see how Indian analysts got surprised with the babur cruise missile launch. 

I wonder, if we are so pathetic, how come we made the Babar CM, Ra'ad ALCM, the Hatf series missiles. 

Don't give the technology transfer BS, we all know that. 

Making all these stuff and improving them is itself something which speaks for itself.

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## manglasiva

taimikhan said:


> but as i said no one knows about the future, who knows tomorrow both things become a reality.



If u plan for the future build the economy and law and order first...the think of ICBM and starwars later... NO OFFENCE !!!!


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## Adios Amigo

Well in fact i am not sure about the need for an ICBM right now, but future as TK and PAFace have pointed is unpredictable. And there is no doubt in my mind that such a program is underway if not already completed.Even if it is completed Pakistan will not go for Testing, rather wait for appropriate time. However some people are suggesting that Pakistan don't need an ICBM, and specially pointing out to wards Israel as an enemy against whom it might be used and the mighty Israel would vaporise us.
For them i would say our ICBM program is not Israel specific, and how the heck they would they vaporise use??? means they already 
possess and ICBMs(Namrid, correct me if I'm wrong) and the big babies provided by uncle Sam. This further validates the need of such a program by Pakistan. 
However having that said, i would like to remind my (young) countrymen, we need not to create animosity with any country Specially Israel, with out good reasons. I know some of you might point out the atrocities carried out by Israel against Palestine. The best and the only way to help Palistanies is moral support and raise our voice on every international forum for their rights. Other then that we cannot do much but only harm to ourselves.
Secondly Pan-Islamism is failed idea, which never worked out in the first place.Specially with corrupt, and morallyARAB leadership, who them-self enjoy cordial relationship with Israel and Uncle Sam, it stands no chance to be practically implemented. We should only protect and work for our Interests, as other wise countries do, rest is history.

TO Our Indian Fellows
I can understand your extreme desires and wishes that Pakistan should not/must not develop an ICBM. and the reasons given such as world pressures and bad economy etc, Let me me assure you, if we really need such a program we would not give s h i t about that and develop it. secondly regarding economy, i would like you to count our Ballistic and Cruse Missile programs, That would give you a fair idea of how much infrastructure is developed regarding this sector and the addition of one more platform wouldn't be a problem. And if we can develop all these plus a Nuclear program with even worse economy then now, it wont be much of a trouble building an ICBM.

secondly you guys suggesting Israel have nothing to do with us, so we shouldn't develop an ICBM as it would be direct threat to them. well let me correct you on this, plz go and check on history books, what were Israels fighters were doing on Indian airbases during kargil War, and secondly check out who they are calling their First enemy these days??? Is it Iran or Pakistan???
Thats why the need for an ICBM is more then ever now, this would ensure that in times of next Indo-Pak conflict, Israel stays back at home.

lastly don't be bothered about it, we are not gonna test it any soon, we are in no hurry and would wait for the appropriate time , as it was provided by you guys in 98 buy conducting nuclear tests.Thanks to you guys for that





adiós

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## TaimiKhan

manglasiva said:


> If u plan for the future build the economy and law and order first...the think of ICBM and starwars later... NO OFFENCE !!!!



No offence, but would be better to give this Idea to your own govt too, who are making ICBMs with much funfair compared to us. Our ICBM program isn't even officially recognized, just rumors, while yours is recognized, so better ask your govt to invest in economy and poverty alleviation then making ICBMs. 

No offence though.

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## Zob

rastor said:


> I would speculate that the whole ICBM by pak is nothing more than bluster. ICBMs are extremely expensive and they require entire industries to make almost akin to aircraft carriers. Pak has neither the kind of industry nor the money or maybe even the stomach for such. Also the there is the factor that pak missile capability is not completely indigenous in development.
> 
> ICBMs are different from the medium range missiles. Even the advanced ICBMs with the west have an accuracy of about 60%. Pak's planners know their priorities and its highly unlikely they would devout their limited resources to a doomed enterprise and even if they do its even more unlikely that they would get anywhere near a working ICBM given pak's techno-industrial infrastructure.
> 
> My 2 cents.




this is EXACTLY what the indians said when we pakistan was made in 1947...pakistan doesn't have the infrastructure to survive long! 

when we started our nuclear program indians thought the same! and yet we made our bomb! 

ICBM might be made but the only valid reason you gave is that ICBMs are not really accurate & are more or less a power projection weapon that we don't need because clearly we don't have any intentions to be a "super power" our aim is defence of the FATHERLAND at all costs from all threats!


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## grey boy 2

manglasiva said:


> If u plan for the future build the economy and law and order first...the think of ICBM and starwars later... NO OFFENCE !!!!



*Pakistan have every right to develop ICBM for defence sake.*

Look who is talking, do you remember how you Indians response 

when Chinese criticize India for spending billions in weapons but 

no money for the poor? Answer=Defence is the top priority.

*BTW, telling everyone India is rich was a myth, let me give you a 

little reality check;*

*My hometown "HongKong" *

Reserves of foreign exchange and gold: 
*$182.5 billion* (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the *world: 8 * 


*India* Reserves of foreign exchange and gold: 
*$254 billion* (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the *world: 5 * 

*When a tiny city of China with a population of 7 million could take on 

a country with population of 1.2 billion, you ain't rich, but in contrast,

"extreme poor".* 
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

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## rastor

taimikhan said:


> Same old ignorant remarks and ignorance about Pakistan, its capabilities and intentions.
> 
> I do hope you google up and see how Indian analysts got surprised with the babur cruise missile launch.
> 
> I wonder, if we are so pathetic, how come we made the Babar CM, Ra'ad ALCM, the Hatf series missiles.
> 
> Don't give the technology transfer BS, we all know that.
> Making all these stuff and improving them is itself something which speaks for itself.



Out of all the points I raised the one about pak receiving help w.r.t missile tech seems to have touched a nerve here. I see India being pretty much the same place as pak in missile tech. Both are nowhere near ICBMs. I don't need to do any google search because I know pak has a decent missile program cruise or ballistic. My point is ICBMs are a whole different ball game. I was hoping for inputs from experts on the points I raised about ICBM. Maybe I should have worded it differently given the sentiments in this board.


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## amarnath

rastor said:


> Out of all the points I raised the one about pak receiving help w.r.t missile tech seems to have touched a nerve here. I see India being pretty much the same place as pak in missile tech. Both are nowhere near ICBMs. I don't need to do any google search because I know pak has a decent missile program cruise or ballistic. My point is ICBMs are a whole different ball game. I was hoping for inputs from experts on the points I raised about ICBM. Maybe I should have worded it differently given the sentiments in this board.



When you research on missile programs, Teake air to air missiles ASTRA, Under water missiles like sagarika and ABM tech, do you think pakistan has these stuffs, Even in ballestic missiles, India have many varients Tested, We have the worlds fastest Cruise missile... And we have 3 ICBM programs running and AD-1 and AD-2 which can intercept an ICBM....


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## Maddy2105

grey boy 2 said:


> *Pakistan have every right to develop ICBM for defence sake.*
> 
> Look who is talking, do you remember how you Indians response
> 
> when Chinese criticize India for spending billions in weapons but
> 
> no money for the poor? Answer=Defence is the top priority.
> 
> *BTW, telling everyone India is rich was a myth, let me give you a
> 
> little reality check;*
> 
> *My hometown "HongKong" *
> 
> Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
> *$182.5 billion* (31 December 2008 est.)
> country comparison to the *world: 8 *
> 
> 
> *India* Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
> *$254 billion* (31 December 2008 est.)
> country comparison to the *world: 5 *
> 
> *When a tiny city of China with a population of 7 million could take on
> 
> a country with population of 1.2 billion, you ain't rich, but in contrast,
> 
> "extreme poor".*
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/



You mind spending those 180 billion on the 700 million rural population in china..Sorry to burst your bubble..in comparison to HongKong all those 700 million rural population in china are extremely poor.


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## amarnath

grey boy 2 said:


> *Pakistan have every right to develop ICBM for defence sake.*
> 
> Look who is talking, do you remember how you Indians response
> 
> when Chinese criticize India for spending billions in weapons but
> 
> no money for the poor? Answer=Defence is the top priority.
> 
> *BTW, telling everyone India is rich was a myth, let me give you a
> 
> little reality check;*
> 
> *My hometown "HongKong" *
> 
> Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
> *$182.5 billion* (31 December 2008 est.)
> country comparison to the *world: 8 *
> 
> 
> *India* Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
> *$254 billion* (31 December 2008 est.)
> country comparison to the *world: 5 *
> 
> *When a tiny city of China with a population of 7 million could take on
> 
> a country with population of 1.2 billion, you ain't rich, but in contrast,
> 
> "extreme poor".*
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/



These Facts which u just mentioned has nothing to do with the poverty of that country, This just decides the value of your nations currency, For a population like your, for the amount of currency running in your economy, You have to show the liquidity, We dont have much currency running thats why we are still 45.8rs behing US doller, We cannot maintain higher liquidity...

Even then India is ranked 5th in this and way too above USA and UK, but does that Mean that USA and UK are poorer than India?

China has 2,273,000
India has only 287,374
USA has 83,375

So according to your predictions USA must be way too poorer than India.


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## grey boy 2

No need to get too emotional, my dear Indian friends,

Lets the facts do the talking, OK ? I will only response those with 

source. Check it out yourself, facts don't lie.
India on various Global ranking studies India Fact Book
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

By the way, lets not derail the thread, why you Indians are so against

Pakistan developing ICBM ?


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## amarnath

grey boy 2 said:


> No need to get too emotional, my dear Indian friends,
> 
> Lets the facts do the talking, OK ? I will only response those with
> 
> source. Check it out yourself, facts don't lie.
> India on various Global ranking studies India Fact Book
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html
> 
> By the way, lets not derail the thread, why you Indians are so against
> 
> Pakistan developing ICBM ?



All right then Have this source if u want....
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2188rank.html


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## rastor

amarnath said:


> When you research on missile programs, Teake air to air missiles ASTRA, Under water missiles like sagarika and ABM tech, do you think pakistan has these stuffs, Even in ballestic missiles, India have many varients Tested, We have the worlds fastest Cruise missile... And we have 3 ICBM programs running and AD-1 and AD-2 which can intercept an ICBM....


 
I am no expert. I have read that pak has more advanced missile tech compared to India due to help from china & NK. You may want to check out pak's missile write-up in Global-Security

Source

ICBMs have nothing to do with cruise-missiles. I also look down on claims from news-magazines about Indian accomplishments in this regard. Take all that with a grain of salt.


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## amarnath

rastor said:


> I am no expert. I have read that pak has more advanced missile tech compared to India due to help from china & NK. You may want to check out pak's missile write-up in Global-Security
> 
> Source
> 
> ICBMs have nothing to do with cruise-missiles. I also look down on claims from news-magazines about Indian accomplishments in this regard. Take all that with a grain of salt.



Werent we talking about the indeginious development? So IF its getting help how ca u say that Technologically same advancement.


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## grey boy 2

amarnath said:


> All right then Have this source if u want....
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2188rank.html



*Well, sure, using my source will be fine too;*

*China*
Population below poverty line: *8% *

Reserves of foreign exchange and gold: 
*$1.955 trillion* (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the *world: 1* 

*India*
Population below poverty line: *25%* 

Reserves of foreign exchange and gold: 
*$254 billion* (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the *world: 5 *

*So, what do you think ? my dear Indian friends.*

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## amarnath

grey boy 2 said:


> *Well, sure, using my source will be fine too;*
> 
> *China*
> Population below poverty line: *8% *
> 
> Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
> *$1.955 trillion* (31 December 2008 est.)
> country comparison to the *world: 1*
> 
> *India*
> Population below poverty line: *25%*
> 
> Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
> *$254 billion* (31 December 2008 est.)
> country comparison to the *world: 5 *
> 
> *So, what do you think ? my dear Indian friends.*



My friend, Iam sure You are not a commerce student... How on earth are you comparing Poverty with Reserves in foreign exchange?

Do u mind mentioning the Foreign reserves Of UK and US? and please do Enlighten us how much people of theirs are below poverty line as they have very low Reserves than India???????


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## illuminatus

grey boy 2 said:


> *Well, sure, using my source will be fine too;*
> 
> *China*
> Population below poverty line: *8% *
> 
> Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
> *$1.955 trillion* (31 December 2008 est.)
> country comparison to the *world: 1*
> 
> *India*
> Population below poverty line: *25%*
> 
> Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
> *$254 billion* (31 December 2008 est.)
> country comparison to the *world: 5 *
> 
> *So, what do you think ? my dear Indian friends.*



These are some handy figures. Thanks for sharing these. I'll take a note of them.

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## TexasJohn

taimikhan said:


> Sir, may I ask who is to be hit by Israel with their Jericho II & III ICBMs ??? All its enemies sit within a few hundred KMs from its borders, then why it is getting a capability which can hit Europe and even US tomorrow, even when it has sufficient capability to annihilate its Arab neighbors who are its enemies ?? Has US or Europe asked them or shown any worries why they are getting these ICBMs ??? Doesn't seems to have a single concern being raised, then why about us ?? We have threatened no one, then why we will have eye brows raised ???
> 
> To me Israeli ICBMs crossing the 10,000KM mark shows they are thinking Europe and US to be future enemies as there is no other reason/logic to make ICBMs which can potentially target countries which are friendly with Israel today, but Israel may be thinking something else.
> 
> Plus, i did not said we need to raise an Army of ICBMs right now, but keep working on it would be a good idea and mastering this technology would not be a bad. Now we may not be able sustain such kind of force, nor may be having an enemy that far away, but as i said no one knows about the future, who knows tomorrow both things become a reality.



Israel is what in the US is sometimes considered the "51st state" - just a proxy for the US and Europe. Hypocritical? of course. They are also our misbehaving little puppy and sometimes they do get a spanking from us. They would not be able to survive if we cut off their several billion dollar arms package anually, and they know that. They also will not conduct any major military action without a US nod. That's why Jericho III will not be allowed to become reality. Israel considers Iran a threat probably because they make no bones about launching missiles at them. A good portion of Israel's population consists of European jews - the thought that they would nuke the old homaland is inconcievable. That's the present

In the future if Israel goes hostile, the purse strings will go away and crippling sanctions will be placed. Look what it did to the PAF in the 90.s

I am certainly not condoning Israel's action, and I think our support for them has cost us goodwill in the Arab world.

What is interesting is that even the Arab world does not treat the Palestinians right..

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## linkwheel

and i spell my name Taimoor


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## foxhound

Salaam....interesting article


ref:ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily
*ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway*Headlines Thursday, August 13th, 2009 
Pr






*Technology to cover range of 7,000 Kms,* Pakistan, to increase its defensive capabilities, has started preparing intercontinental missile with a range of 7000 kilometres. 

*According to sources, the intercontinental missile has a range of 7000 kilometres and is capable of hitting its target falling within its range. The missile can contain nuclear as well as traditional warheads. The missile has been termed a significant milestone for the defence of the country and is believed to strengthen the defence. According to sources, the missile would soon be test fired.*
PAF to get airborne refullers next year: Pakistan Air Force plans to induct four Chinese airborne refullers next year, in a move to counter the Indian Air Forces enhanced capabilities after New Delhi acquired six similar aircraft, an Indian news agency quoted the PAF chief as saying.

Air Chief Marshal Qamar Suleman underlined that the airborne refullers were necessary to match the IAF capabilities.

This is an absolutely new capability which we are inducting. We never had this capability in the PAF, Suleman added, maintaining, in order to match the IAFs acquisition of the first of three Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), the PAF would receive four Chinese systems between 2011 and 2012.

He also termed as alarming the IAFs intention of purchasing 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, saying Pakistan needed to have something matching.

Short URL: ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily

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## DESERT FIGHTER

AWESOME!... our SLV programe will also be benefited.

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## Windjammer

Such delivery systems with designations of Taimur and Tipu have been in circles for some time now.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

It was called TIPU.....AWESOME NAME!


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## Haseebullah

Well sooner or later this had to come out but i can assure you Pakistan had the ability to develop an ICBM for half a decade now but it didn't want to expose it because of certain issues.But still its good news

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## Donatello

foxhound said:


> Salaam....interesting article
> 
> 
> ref:ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily
> *ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway*Headlines Thursday, August 13th, 2009
> Pr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Technology to cover range of 7,000 Kms,* Pakistan, to increase its defensive capabilities, has started preparing intercontinental missile with a range of 7000 kilometres.
> 
> *According to sources, the intercontinental missile has a range of 7000 kilometres and is capable of hitting its target falling within its range. The missile can contain nuclear as well as traditional warheads. The missile has been termed a significant milestone for the defence of the country and is believed to strengthen the defence. According to sources, the missile would soon be test fired.*
> PAF to get airborne refullers next year: *Pakistan Air Force plans to induct four Chinese airborne refullers next year*, in a move to counter the Indian Air Forces enhanced capabilities after New Delhi acquired six similar aircraft, an Indian news agency quoted the PAF chief as saying.
> 
> Air Chief Marshal Qamar Suleman underlined that the airborne refullers were necessary to match the IAF capabilities.
> 
> This is an absolutely new capability which we are inducting. We never had this capability in the PAF, Suleman added, maintaining, in order to match the IAFs acquisition of the first of three Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), the PAF would receive four Chinese systems between 2011 and 2012.
> 
> He also termed as alarming the IAFs intention of purchasing 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, saying Pakistan needed to have something matching.
> 
> Short URL: ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily





Chinese aerial tankers? That's new.


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## naumananjum

wowwww
7000 km
.
i had heard that tipu will be 45oo km
.
great


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## foxhound

ref:extract taken from Intercontinental ballistic missile - eNotes.com Reference

According to this it is the &#9632;Taimur (7,000km, Under development)




An Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) is a long-range (greater than 5,500 km or 3,500 miles) ballistic missile typically designed for nuclear weapons delivery, that is, delivering one or more nuclear warheads. Due to their great range and firepower, in an all-out nuclear war, land-based ICBMs and submarines would carry most of the destructive force, with nuclear-armed bombers having the remainder.

ICBMs are differentiated by having greater range and speed than other ballistic missiles: intermediate-range ballistic missiles (IRBMs), medium-range ballistic missiles (MRBMs), short-range ballistic missiles (SRBMs)&#8212;these shorter range ballistic missiles are known collectively as theatre ballistic missiles. Categorizing missiles by range is necessarily subjective[clarification needed] and the boundaries are chosen somewhat arbitrarily.

While the warheads of theater ballistic missiles are often conventional, ICBMs are nearly inseparable from their connection with nuclear warheads. 'Nuclear ICBM' is seen as a redundant term. Strategic planning avoids the concept of a conventionally tipped ICBM, mainly because any ICBM launch threatens many countries and they are expected to react under a worst-case assumption that it is a nuclear attack. This threat of ICBMs to deliver such a lethal blow so rapidly to targets across the globe has resulted in the interesting fact that there has never been any end-to-end test of a nuclear-armed ICBM.

With the advent of MIRVs in 1970, deployed in Minuteman ICBMs and Posidon SLBMs,[1] the warhead from a single missile had the capability to split up and strike several different targets.




*ICBMs by country*
Soviet Union / Russia
Specific types of Soviet ICBMs include:

&#9632;R7 Semyorka / 8K71 / SS-6 Sapwood: Rocket first used to launch Sputnik 1 in October 1957. Derivatives are still in use today, primarily as the Soyuz rocket for manned Soyuz and Progress spacecraft launches to the International Space Station
&#9632;R-16 SS-7 Saddler
&#9632;R-9 Desna / SS-8 Sasin
&#9632;R-36 SS-9 Scarp
&#9632;R-36M2 Voevoda / SS-18 Satan
&#9632;UR-100 8K84 / SS-11 Sego
&#9632;MR-UR-100 Sotka / 15A15/ SS-17 Spanker
&#9632;UR-100N 15A30 / SS-19 Stiletto
&#9632;RT-2 8K98 / SS-13 Savage
&#9632;RT-23 Molodets / SS-24 Scalpel
&#9632;RT-2PM Topol / 15Zh58 / SS-25 Sickle
&#9632;RT-2UTTKh Topol M / SS-27
&#9632;RS-24: MIRV-equipped. Expected to service in December 2009.

United States
&#9632;Atlas (SM-65, CGM-16): Former ICBM launched from silo, the rocket was modified and used in 1962-1963 for four manned Mercury-Atlas flights, and was used, along with the Agena or Centaur upper stages, as a medium-lift satellite and interplanetary probe launcher for NASA and the USAF. Original design, with "balloon tanks" and "1.5 staging," has since been retired and replaced with the Atlas V, which has an internal structure similar to the Titan ICBM, but using conventional propellants.
&#9632;Titan I (SM-68, HGM-25A): Based in underground launch complexes. Used LOX/RP-1 propellants like Atlas, but stored in conventional tanks.
&#9632;Titan II (SM-68B, LGM-25C): Former hypergolic-fueled ICBM launched from silo, the rocket was used in 1965-1966 for ten manned Gemini flights and its two-stage core was modified into the heavy-lifting Titan III and Titan IV rockets. All Titan II, III, and IV models have since been retired.
&#9632;Minuteman I (SM-80, LGM-30A/B, HSM-80)
&#9632;Minuteman II (LGM-30F)
&#9632;Minuteman III (LGM-30G): launched from silo&#8212;as of May 2009, there are 450 Minuteman III missiles in active inventory
&#9632;LGM-118 Peacekeeper / MX (LGM-118A): silo-based; decommissioned in May 2006
&#9632;Midgetman: prototype only and has never been operational&#8212;launched from mobile launcher
&#9632;Trident (UGM-93A/B) SLBM: Trident II (D5) was first deployed in 1990 and is planned to be deployed past 2020 (11,300 kilometres (7,000 mi) range).

People's Republic of China
Specific types of Chinese ICBMs called Dong Feng ("East Wind").

&#9632;DF-4 (CSS-3): silo based and semimobile, 5,550&#8211;7,000 km range.
&#9632;DF-5 (CSS-4) (1981&#8211;present): silo based, 12,000 km range.
&#9632;DF-5A (CSS-4) (16 December 1986 &#8211; present): silo based, 15,000+ km range.
&#9632;DF-31 (CSS-9): silo and road mobile, 7,200+ km range.
&#9632;Railroad-based DF-31: railroad mobile, 7,200+ km range.
&#9632;DF-31A (CSS-9 Mod-2): silo and road mobile, MIRV equipped, 11,200+ km range.
&#9632;JL-2 (CSS-NX-4): SSBN-based, ~8000 km range.
&#9632;DF-41 (CSS-X-10): silo and road mobile, MIRV equipped (up to 10), under development, 15,000+ km range.

United Kingdom
The United Kingdom only deploys United States-constructed, submarine-launched ICBMs. The UK contributes towards the development of the U.S.-constructed missiles which it uses.

&#9632;Trident II (D5): SLBM currently used by the Royal Navy and planned to be deployed until the 2050s.

France
France only deploys submarine launched ICBMs, with all land based ones decommissioned

&#9632;M45: In service.
&#9632;M51.1: Expected to enter service in 2010.
&#9632;M51.2: Expected to enter service in 2015.

Israel
&#9632;Jericho II: capable of sending a one ton nuclear payload 5,000 kilometers.[14] capable of being modified to carry one nuclear warhead that is no heavier than 500 kg over 7,800 km.[15]
&#9632;Jericho III: believed to have a range of up to 11,500 km with 1&#8211;1.3 ton payload.[16] Entered service in 2008.

Under development

North Korea
North Korea currently does not have any ICBM in its inventory.

&#9632;Taepodong-2 (4,000&#8211;9,000 km range, failed test in 2006)

India
India currently does not have any ICBM in its inventory.

&#9632;Agni V[17]
&#9632;Agni V SLBM[17]
&#9632;Surya-I
&#9632;Surya-II

 PakistanPakistan currently does not have any ICBM in its inventory.

&#9632;*Taimur (7,000km, Under development)[18]*
Sea-based ICBMs


Trident missile launch at sea from a Royal Navy Vanguard-class ballistic missile submarine&#9632; The U.S. Navy currently has 18 Ohio-class SSBNs deployed, of which 14 are armed with 24 Trident II SLBMs each, for a total of 288 Trident II missiles equipped with 1152 MIRV nuclear warheads.
&#9632; The Russian Navy currently has 12 SSBNs deployed, including 5 Delta III class submarines, 6 Delta IV class submarines and 1 Typhoon class submarine. Missiles include R-29R SLBMs and R-29RMU Sineva SLBMs with MIRV warheads for a total of 181 missiles equipped with 639 nuclear warheads. The Borei class SSBNs and Bulava SLBMs are under development.
&#9632; The United Kingdom's Royal Navy has four Vanguard class SSBNs, each armed with 16 Trident II SLBMs with MIRV warheads for a total of 64 Trident II missiles and 185 nuclear warheads.
&#9632; The French Navy has four le Triomphant class SSBNs each armed with 16 M45s SLBMs with TN75 MIRV nuclear warheads. The M45 SLBMs are scheduled to be upgraded to M51 SLBMs around 2010.
&#9632; The People's Republic of China's People's Liberation Army Navy has two Type 094 SSBNs each armed with 12 JL-2 SLBMs.

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## Safriz

Fitting an additional stage in existing Pakistani missiles and converting them into a longer range ICBM wont be that difficult..Plus Pakistan always had the capability of building Long range missiles,but both countries willingly didn't extend the range of their missiles so that far flung countries such as israel don't feel intimidated.


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## Kompromat

*It will allow us to strike targets on long ranges.*

These maps are for sharing purpose only - no offense to any nation !!

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## greatsequence

I still dont get the purpose of the device. It would have been better to invest in real good SAMS.

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## Xestan

greatsequence said:


> I still dont get the purpose of the device. It would have been better to invest in real good SAMS.



That's something very important for the National security, not to remind you the evil ambitions that Israel has, + the coming times will be very HOSTILE to Muslims.

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## Dalai Lama

Hmmm... okay. Can anyone tell me what Pakistan hopes to achieve with this? I mean what other countries do you have that are hostile towards you apart from India (which is already in range).


Thanks in advance.


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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

same as these:

Israel
&#9632;Jericho II: capable of sending a one ton nuclear payload 5,000 kilometers.[14] capable of being modified to carry one nuclear warhead that is no heavier than 500 kg over 7,800 km.[15]
&#9632;Jericho III: believed to have a range of up to 11,500 km with 1&#8211;1.3 ton payload.[16] Entered service in 2008.

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## brahmastra

Black Blood said:


> *It will allow us to strike targets on long ranges.*
> 
> These maps are for sharing purpose only - no offense to any nation !!



surely great news for Pakistan.

The last image which shows entire Europe in the range will certainly raise some eyebrows on those part of the world.

As a Pakistani national, ofcourse it is a proud moment but as a diplomatic level not a good move.

you do not need that much range, 4000 km range is more than enough for your interest.

just a thought.

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## TechLahore

There were rumours that the recent Hatf-V test was actually a test of MIRV capability. Very interesting to see this followup report. Looks like a true ICBM program is taking shape. 

These developments have to be seen in context of Pakistan being the 6th largest country in the world. We do have interests all over the world, as other large countries have argued, so developing capabilities to project some power globally is just logical. The Chinese also started with a punitive global strike capability, which gave them an umbrella under which they built a phenomenally successful state. Seems a good example to follow...

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## TechLahore

brahmastra said:


> surely great news for Pakistan.
> 
> The last image which shows entire Europe in the range will certainly raise some eyebrows on those part of the world.
> 
> As a Pakistani national, ofcourse it is a proud moment but as a diplomatic level not a good move.
> 
> you do not need that much range, 4000 km range is more than enough for your interest.
> 
> just a thought.



With great power comes great responsibility. Pakistani diplomacy must establish that Europe nor anyone else is threatened by Pakistan. A punitive capability of this type is intended for only one purpose, and that is to ensure that no one crosses our "red lines".

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## Desert Fox

but this article is from august 2009 and the recently tested missile had a range of only1300 km???


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## GodlessBastard

I'll believe it when I see it.

And I probably won't be seeing anything for a while.


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## monitor

Good move by Pakistan .should have a option to deter any conspiracy against its interest .


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## prototype

foxhound said:


> India
> India currently does not have any ICBM in its inventory.
> 
> &#9632;Agni V[17]
> &#9632;Agni V SLBM[17]
> &#9632;Surya-I
> &#9632;Surya-II



Surya project is nothing more than media speculation,Indian sources had repeatedly denied its existense


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## rockstarIN

alex mercer said:


> Surya project is nothing more than media speculation,Indian sources had repeatedly denied its existense



There is a huge pressure on India not to test any ICBMs from various parts of the world, that's why the denials always even though the ICBM projects are on..


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## Areesh

GodlessBastard said:


> I'll believe it when I see it.
> 
> And I probably won't be seeing anything for a while.



Obviously. And we aren't going to test one either until you do so. We will follow you. You test ICBM. We will test ICBM.

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## ares

Areesh said:


> Obviously. And we aren't going to test one either until you do so. We will follow you. You test ICBM. We will test ICBM.



We understand..you lack the initiative.

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## divya

*India
India currently does not have any ICBM in its inventory.

&#9632;Agni V[17]
&#9632;Agni V SLBM[17]
&#9632;Surya-I
&#9632;Surya-II*

Sorry there is no program called Surya since we dont need it so we dont have it. There is no need to have ICBM program because no one is hostile to India in other continents

At the same time congrats Pakistan. But what are the objectives which Pakistan thinks to achieve with it.
Hope you dont plan to hit India which goes round the globe crossing across middle east, America, Japan and then hits India


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## Areesh

ares said:


> We understand..you lack the initiative.



Take it as you like.

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## IceCold

divya said:


> *India
> India currently does not have any ICBM in its inventory.
> 
> &#9632;Agni V[17]
> &#9632;Agni V SLBM[17]
> &#9632;Surya-I
> &#9632;Surya-II*
> 
> Sorry there is no program called Surya since we dont need it so we dont have it. There is no need to have ICBM program because no one is hostile to India in other continents
> 
> At the same time congrats Pakistan. But what are the objectives which Pakistan thinks to achieve with it.
> Hope you dont plan to hit India which goes round the globe crossing across middle east, America, Japan and then hits India



Its not like we are looking for trouble but there are somethings, countries apart India who have threatened Pakistan, even threaten to bomb it back to stone age. Maybe its for them, so they understand "Do not cross the red line".


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## divya

IceCold said:


> Its not like we are looking for trouble but there are somethings, countries apart India who have threatened Pakistan, even threaten to bomb it back to stone age. Maybe its for them, so they understand "Do not cross the red line".


but there is already enough threat perception in west viz pakistans nuke program. at the same time pakistan is dependent on them for the sake of market as well as aid. dont you this threat posturing will worsen the situation? even if pakistan gets it will pakistan be in state to use them because of missile shields

in my views
technically: good move
politically: blunder


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## Avatar

Why are we excited over an article from August 13th, 2009. Late reaction, perhaps ?

IMO this isn't the time for such a development. Pakistan already has insurgency problems and not so good reputation on the global level considering security. Developing an ICBM would add more fuel to the fire.

By the way, I dont think Pakistan is capable of waging a war against Israel or any other nation at range. I say this because majority of Pakistan's army is at the Eastern Border despite fighting a WoT on the western side. In a state of war Pakistan will not have enough resources to dedicate to campaign and defend the eastern side at the same time. 
Just having ICBM's is not enough, and Missile Shield technology is also maturing.


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## mjnaushad

brahmastra said:


> surely great news for Pakistan.
> 
> The last image which shows entire Europe in the range will certainly raise some eyebrows on those part of the world.
> 
> As a Pakistani national, ofcourse it is a proud moment but as a diplomatic level not a good move.
> 
> you do not need that much range, 4000 km range is more than enough for your interest.
> 
> just a thought.


No .... I think after the recent news of sending troops to Pakistan we need to make sure that if they'll hit us on our mail land we can hit them too.... It doesn't mean we will but its now need for our security. The fear will make them think twice before sending troops. Because right now the biggest upper hand nato have is that we cannot hit there main land in case they attack.

No offense to any nation.

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## IceCold

divya said:


> but there is already enough threat perception in west viz pakistans nuke program. at the same time pakistan is dependent on them for the sake of market as well as aid. dont you this threat posturing will worsen the situation? even if pakistan gets it will pakistan be in state to use them because of missile shields
> 
> in my views
> technically: good move
> politically: blunder



As a Pakistani i see it different. Actually the dependency isnt one sided as your post suggested, we are interdependent on each other. Coming to your second part, having a deterrent does not necessarily mean we are going to fire one, like the name suggests, the deterrent is there is to prevent others from a misadventure.


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## Devil Soul

i've been hearing about it for quiet some time now... waiting to see when they test fire it


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## AUz

Well,Pakistan didn't even test fire its Shaheen-3 missile...I would be happy when Pakistan test fires its ICBM..but right now its just a news and nothing to be happy about.IMO,Pakistan is not going to test fire an ICBM (if there's any) until *2015/16*.
We don't need an ICBM so badly..our current missile arsenal is more than enough for our eastern Friend.

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## JonAsad

Current situation of Pakistan demand no test firing of any sort of missiles, but as soon as india test fires it ICBM, we'll love to give a reply.

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## Kompromat

brahmastra said:


> surely great news for Pakistan.
> 
> The last image which shows entire Europe in the range will certainly raise some eyebrows on those part of the world.
> 
> As a Pakistani national, ofcourse it is a proud moment but as a diplomatic level not a good move.
> 
> you do not need that much range, 4000 km range is more than enough for your interest.
> 
> just a thought.



Europeans have ICBMs why cannot we

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## Vasily Zaytsev

The News posted is of August 2009

By this time Pakistan might have tested the ICBM.

What is the latest update?


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## mjnaushad

@Vasily 

Its been kept secret.......



Remember no one knew about Babur and it came out of no where...

No one knew about J20 And it also come out of no where....

So whats not visible doesn't mean it doesn't exist......


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## Vasily Zaytsev

mjnaushad said:


> @Vasily
> 
> Its been kept secret.......
> 
> 
> 
> Remember no one knew about Babur and it came out of no where...
> 
> No one knew about J20 And it also come out of no where....
> 
> So whats not visible doesn't mean it doesn't exist......





Question is not whether its a secret or not?

Question is why post a 2009 article?


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## mjnaushad

Vasily Zaytsev said:


> Question is not whether its a secret or not?
> 
> Question is why post a 2009 article?


If mods find problem with the date of article report the post....... Its a button on the left lower corner of the post with your online status.....


And BTW your Question was 



> What is the latest update?



Which i replied...


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## Tayyab1796

IceCold said:


> As a Pakistani i see it different. Actually the dependency isnt one sided as your post suggested, we are interdependent on each other. Coming to your second part, having a deterrent does not necessarily mean we are going to fire one, like the name suggests, the deterrent is there is to prevent others from a misadventure.



Also when two parties talk about their issues then having such capabilities means that both parties talk on a par level in diplomacy . To give u n example y is Russia so pissed by the 'missile defence shield ' of US is not because Russia plans to launch a missile tomorrow but because that project takes away that 'on par' level which the Russia had in diplomacy with US.


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## Anti_Zionist

ares said:


> We understand..you lack the initiative.



its part of our foreign policy to not be hostile towards any country but no compromise on our defence.We test to nullify others not to show what we got...

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## Safriz

i wont be surprised if US senate turns a blind eye on this project..most of The senate members have stakes in weapons industry and to get funding they need foreign threats...


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## Screambowl

mjnaushad said:


> No .... I think after the recent news of sending troops to Pakistan we need to make sure that if they'll hit us on our mail land we can hit them too.... It doesn't mean we will but its now need for our security. The fear will make them think twice before sending troops. Because right now the biggest upper hand nato have is that we cannot hit there main land in case they attack.
> 
> No offense to any nation.



they Hit you only after getting permission from your leaders.


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## alibaz

There should be no hurry in testing such missile (If we have) instead it should be demonstrated at appropriate time. There should be no doubt that our scientists and engineers never disappointed nation, may those be nuclear or missile tests. The sole purpose of these weapons is to keep any hostile power at a distance and the desired result is peace not killing people and property.


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## Dalai Lama

IceCold said:


> Its not like we are looking for trouble but there are somethings, countries apart India who have threatened Pakistan, even threaten to *bomb it back to stone age*. Maybe its for them, so they understand "Do not cross the red line".




Sir, we're talking about 15,000 km ICBM's if you hope to deter the US.


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## Last Hope

Are you talking about Taimur or Tipu?
I heard that Tipu is about 7000 KM and you are saying this is Taimur.


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## monitor

safriz said:


> i wont be surprised if US senate turns a blind eye on this project..most of The senate members have stakes in weapons industry and to get funding they need foreign threats...



i don't think Pakistani intercontinental missile will create any major threat for usa .they will keep a blind eye so that the relation keep going and weapons sales to both side continue .

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## mjnaushad

Screambowl said:


> they Hit you only after getting permission from your leaders.


Drone strikes..... That is another discussion altogether .... We are talking about moving troops and declaring war against Pakistan. or moving troops or firing missiles without Pakistan's permission.


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## Last Hope

What is the use of having long range missiles?
I guess, 5000 KM is alright.
Lets have a imaginary war.
Pakistan has launched this ICBM to a country X, 6000KM away. Wont it be alerted by its radar, or the countries that it passes through?
If so, they wont it have its AAA destroy it or a counter SAM?
Even can hit it with a UAV?
Its destruction is what should matter. If it has capabilty to attack 7000KM, then wont it be filled with fuel, not the warhead?

I am not aware about missiles, so please enlighten me if I am wrong.
Thank you.


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## Screambowl

mjnaushad said:


> Drone strikes..... That is another discussion altogether .... We are talking about moving troops and declaring war against Pakistan. or moving troops or firing missiles without Pakistan's permission.



that era is gone. they won't fight you directly. they will supply you weapons and in the same time they will be fighting with you, or its possible that Israel intervenes.


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## Screambowl

proudpakistanistudent said:


> What is the use of having long range missiles?
> I guess, 5000 KM is alright.
> Lets have a imaginary war.
> Pakistan has launched this ICBM to a country X, 6000KM away. Wont it be alerted by its radar, or the countries that it passes through?
> If so, they wont it have its AAA destroy it or a counter SAM?
> Even can hit it with a UAV?
> Its destruction is what should matter. If it has capabilty to attack 7000KM, then wont it be filled with fuel, not the warhead?
> 
> I am not aware about missiles, so please enlighten me if I am wrong.
> Thank you.



Taking down a ballistic missile, be it 30 years old, is not an easy task. Only few countries have this capability and that is also without 100&#37; kill assurance. Test are going on. India has it, so it is possible if you launch towards east, India can try to shoot it down. If you launch it towards west then may be Americans can take it down IF they have installed BMD in Afghanistan. In old soviet region it could be shot down before entering the mainland Europe. Basically it depends on the treaty between the countires. But as I said Experiments are still going on to achieve 100% kill BMD technology.


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## Anti_Zionist

Screambowl said:


> Taking down a ballistic missile, be it 30 years old, is not an easy task. Only few countries have this capability and that is also without 100&#37; kill assurance. Test are going on. India has it, so it is possible if you launch towards east, India can try to shoot it down. If you launch it towards west then may be Americans can take it down IF they have installed BMD in Afghanistan. In old soviet region it will be definitely shot down before entering the mainland Europe. But as I said Experiments are still going on to achieve 100% kill BMD technology.



Well 100 % is not possible..!! i dont know much but if one launches alot of such missiles..not all can be intercepted right? maybe 5 out of 15 will be intercepted 10 may go forward.And i think as the BMD develops there may also come some safety features in the missiles too.Does BMD system use heat to destroy ? If it does then like planes missiles can also use some deceiving tactics right?


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## Anti_Zionist

Screambowl said:


> Taking down a ballistic missile, be it 30 years old, is not an easy task. Only few countries have this capability and that is also without 100% kill assurance. Test are going on. India has it, so it is possible if you launch towards east, India can try to shoot it down. If you launch it towards west then may be Americans can take it down IF they have installed BMD in Afghanistan. In old soviet region it will be definitely shot down before entering the mainland Europe. But as I said Experiments are still going on to achieve 100% kill BMD technology.



i thought Indias BMD failed?


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## Last Hope

l094421 said:


> i thought Indias BMD failed?



Not all (as far as I know)
Priviti I and II, Agini failed..


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## Screambowl

l094421 said:


> i thought Indias BMD failed?



its still under experimental stage, failure and success is a part of experiment. All the test launches have been successful till now. We are going for one more test soon with new parameters lets see.


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## Screambowl

proudpakistanistudent said:


> Not all (as far as I know)
> Priviti I and II, Agini failed..



Agni doesn't come under BMD


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## Anti_Zionist

Screambowl said:


> its still under experimental stage, failure and success is a part of experiment. All the test launches have been successful till now. We are going for one more test soon.



lets hope it does not fail like some missiles!! i want india to have it because only then Pakistan will try to have it lol..


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## Screambowl

l094421 said:


> Well 100 &#37; is not possible..!! i dont know much but if one launches alot of such missiles..not all can be intercepted right? maybe 5 out of 15 will be intercepted 10 may go forward.And i think as the BMD develops there may also come some safety features in the missiles too.Does BMD system use heat to destroy ? If it does then like planes missiles can also use some deceiving tactics right?



sir if you launch an ICBM You will be either launching it on NATO countries or SCO, 7000km away. And they all posses ICBM too. Their missiles might reach you before your missiles reach their capital. So there is no use of it. ICBM for us is just a technology show till now, depends on the threat perception. May be Pakistan needs it.


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## mjnaushad

Screambowl said:


> sir if you launch an ICBM You will be either launching it on NATO countries or SCO, 7000km away. And they all posses ICBM too. Their missiles might reach you before your missiles reach their capital. So there is no use of it. ICBM for ur is just a technology show for now. May be Pakistan needs it.


NATO will surely have more capability of destroying us. Even without ICBM one launch of tomahawk will do the job. The thing is that if they know that they'll get hit too will make them think twice before hitting us.

PLUS : This situation of NATO and Pakistan war is far far far far far away from reality.

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## Screambowl

mjnaushad said:


> NATO will surely have more capability of destroying us. Even without ICBM one launch of tomahawk will do the job. The thing is that if they know that they'll get hit too will make them think twice before hitting us.
> 
> PLUS : This situation of NATO and Pakistan war is far far far far far away from reality.



then you don't need ICBM.

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## F-16_Falcon

*The daily.pk is not any news website. Its has not been updated since 17th September. Its like another blog spreading false Musharraf BS. *


Please go through the website. I don't wish it come out like another gyrocopter like situation.


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## Anti_Zionist

Screambowl said:


> sir if you launch an ICBM You will be either launching it on NATO countries or SCO, 7000km away. And they all posses ICBM too. Their missiles might reach you before your missiles reach their capital. So there is no use of it. ICBM for us is just a technology show till now, depends on the threat perception. May be Pakistan needs it.



why will they reach quickly please explain? i think there should be sources linearly arranged that emit a high intensity rays that can protect the country from the missiles.. kesa ?


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## Last Hope

Screambowl said:


> then you don't need ICBM.



Even they started from a scratch. Next step, Install 'anti-ICBM/IRBM Artillery'

If there is a will, there is a way.
Also, We have got faith in Allah.
He is, no doubt, the best planners of all.


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## Screambowl

l094421 said:


> lets hope it does not fail like some missiles!! i want india to have it because only then Pakistan will try to have it lol..



well our missiles do fail but they are experimental missiles not the ones we have in arsenal. Yes there are problems with Agni 2* but its under development phase.


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## Screambowl

l094421 said:


> why will they reach quickly please explain? i think there should be sources linearly arranged that emit a high intensity rays that can protect the country from the missiles.. kesa ?



because Americans have their Navy in Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden. 

yes high intensity laser, i heard there are experiments going on in Israel and Americans have already tried it. But still it not 100% proven.


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## QADRI

i have a question from Pakistani members only... Is Pakistan working on anti Ballastic missile.?


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## Last Hope

QADRI said:


> i have a question from Pakistani members only... Is Pakistan working on anti Ballastic missile.?



I am not sure.
I think no.


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## bc040400065

brahmastra said:


> surely great news for Pakistan.
> 
> The last image which shows entire Europe in the range will certainly raise some eyebrows on those part of the world.
> 
> As a Pakistani national, ofcourse it is a proud moment but as a diplomatic level not a good move.
> 
> you do not need that much range, 4000 km range is more than enough for your interest.
> 
> just a thought.



4000km range is more than enough for India as well so i would suggest you better ask the Indian government to scrap all ICBM programs with more than 4000km range. avoid double standard please. 
Personally i do agree with you that 4K range is enough for Pakistan but i just replied your post to point out your double standards.

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## unicorn148

India require ICBM because India has a role to play as a global player and to defend it self. But in case of paikistan its better for it to invest in SLV than going for ICBM.It is far behind everyone in that field Even Iran has a good space program so better invest in space....................


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## Kompromat

QADRI said:


> i have a question from Pakistani members only... Is Pakistan working on anti Ballastic missile.?



Just hold your horses for few years


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## hardcoreman

Pakistan don't need long range missile....this is just propaganda news


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## Desert Fox

Screambowl said:


> Taking down a ballistic missile, be it 30 years old, is not an easy task. Only few countries have this capability and that is also without 100&#37; kill assurance. Test are going on. India has it, so it is possible if you launch towards east, India can try to shoot it down. If you launch it towards west then may be Americans can take it down IF they have installed BMD in Afghanistan. In old soviet region it could be shot down before entering the mainland Europe. Basically it depends on the treaty between the countires. But as I said Experiments are still going on to achieve 100% kill BMD technology.



I read a few reliable sources stating that Pakistan has been experimenting with MIRV tech on its missiles and their are rumors that the recently tested missile was MIRVed, so does any country posses tech to take down multiple warheads ejected from a ICBM??? and i'm not just talking about one single ICBM i'm talking about 10 MIRVed ICBM's/CBM's fired at an enemy!!


----------



## rameez ahmed

UmEr Rajpoot said:


> That's something very important for the National security, not to remind you the evil ambitions that Israel has, + the coming times will be very HOSTILE to Muslims.



Agreed with you... Times for Muslims will be really very tough in the next few decades (Allah Knows Best)... We need such Defense technology for threatening the countries like Israel....

I am Desperately waiting for the day when "TIPU" will become a reality and will further strengthen our defence capability....


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## MM_Haider

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> AWESOME!... our SLV programe will also be benefited.



SLV programme? Do we have any?? I seriously doubt that. Can somebody please share any link, i am searching though. 

@topic, If you believe a news from 2009 and from a website which is not being updated since september.. you believe everything..


----------



## bc040400065

unicorn148 said:


> India require ICBM because India has a role to play as a global player and to defend it self. But in case of paikistan its better for it to invest in SLV than going for ICBM.It is far behind everyone in that field Even Iran has a good space program so better invest in space....................



India acquires what it thinks it needs. so the point is Pakistan has the same right as well so Pakistan can acquire what it thinks is neccessary for its defence. India has no right to object on what pakistan acquires for its defence. i don't know when India will get rid of this Pakistan phobia. personally i do think we don't need 4k+ range, just wanted to point out the indian double standards.


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## Screambowl

bc040400065 said:


> 4000km range is more than enough for India as well so i would suggest you better ask the Indian government to scrap all ICBM programs with more than 4000km range. avoid double standard please.
> Personally i do agree with you that 4K range is enough for Pakistan but i just replied your post to point out your double standards.



Pakistan is always India centric but we are nobody Centric. We do have perception of threats. But its not permanent.


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## mjnaushad

MM_Haider said:


> SLV programme? Do we have any?? I seriously doubt that. Can somebody please share any link, i am searching though.
> 
> @topic, If you believe a news from 2009 and from a website which is not being updated since september.. you believe everything..


This picture is of IDEAS.... So there is something going on just not coming on the front because of political reasons.


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## naumananjum

QADRI said:


> i have a question from Pakistani members only... Is Pakistan working on anti Ballastic missile.?



IT should not be OUT to public if a project is under development stage 
.


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## Screambowl

SilentNinja said:


> I read a few reliable sources stating that Pakistan has been experimenting with MIRV tech on its missiles and their are rumors that the recently tested missile was MIRVed, so does any country posses tech to take down multiple warheads ejected from a ICBM??? and i'm not just talking about one single ICBM i'm talking about 10 MIRVed ICBM's/CBM's fired at an enemy!!




Does Pakistan posses MIRV technology, it's a doubtful case, because, the Shaheen which was launched was from the arsenal wht they already have, just a user trial.
Pakistan is believed to have compact bomb designs but this doesnt conclude that missile is MIRVed. Lesser the mass is more the instability and hence more betterment needed. 
meanwhile the warheads used in your missiles are similar to what Pershing 2 IRBM has w50 type warhead. and it is not Mirved.
If you have developed the space capsule, you would have experienced such scenarios. India has done it.


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## I M Sikander

Screambowl said:


> Pakistan is always India centric


There is nothing wrong if Pakistan military strategists are India centric, its obvious and make sense. Can There be any other priority "Centre", If yes please suggest the name.


----------



## Tajdar adil

Yes we need thats kind of missiles because isreal is also our enemy......


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## scrumpy

Tajdar adil said:


> Yes we need thats kind of missiles because isreal is also our enemy......



Does Pakistan have a shortage of enemies that it seeks to make more enemies?


----------



## Screambowl

Ranasikander said:


> There is nothing wrong if Pakistan military strategists are India centric, its obvious and make sense. Can There be any other priority "Centre", If yes please suggest the name.



USA 
Russia
China
England
France

so many yaar ....


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## naumananjum

Screambowl said:


> USA
> Russia
> China
> England
> France
> 
> so many yaar ....



so stupid yar

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## Screambowl

naumananjum said:


> so stupid yar



perceptions


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## black_magic pk

naumananjum said:


> so stupid yar



roger that..first thing which came to my mind by looking at his post!!!


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## Desert Fox

Screambowl said:


> Does Pakistan posses MIRV technology, it's a doubtful case, because, the Shaheen which was launched was from the arsenal wht they already have, just a user trial.
> Pakistan is believed to have compact bomb designs but this doesnt conclude that missile is MIRVed. Lesser the mass is more the instability and hence more betterment needed.
> meanwhile the warheads used in your missiles are similar to what Pershing 2 IRBM has w50 type warhead. and it is not Mirved.
> If you have developed the space capsule, you would have experienced such scenarios. India has done it.



how do you know if we haven't developed MIRV tech??? just because we didn't launch a space capsule doesn't mean we don't have MIRV!



Screambowl said:


> the Shaheen which was launched was from the arsenal wht they already have, *just a user trial*.



and user trial for what? The missile was already tested before induction and its pointless to test something who's capabilities you already know unless of course you upgrade it!

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

I think one of the respected members of the forum said this to me a few days back that our achilles heel is the delivery systems of our nukes (the nukes themselves are secure)... so I think a ICBM program is of extreme importance to Pakistan... and we have a valid reason also because India has been working on this program for a long time...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Screambowl said:


> USA
> Russia
> China
> England
> France
> 
> so many yaar ....



Actually I ll support you on this one... but with a little twist...

PAF will only go in action against say... England... AFTER we are done and dusted with the failed experiment called Bharat...

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## Avatar

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Actually I ll support you on this one... but with a little twist...
> 
> PAF will only go in action against say... England... AFTER we are done and dusted with the failed experiment called Bharat...



Dude are you really on crack or you just like to pretend that way ? Please be REALISTIC ! This is a defence forum not a fantasy forum lol !


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## iioal malik

Now this is very good news i have no doubt in the capabilities of our engineers this project is indeed under process and Inshallah in near future pakistan will have this teleology Ameen

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## sergente rehan

Hope that everything is going in the right direction and will love to see in the future, if it will be ever made pubblic, the test fire of both ICBMs!

Pakistan Zindabad!

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

If that were to happen, the insecure Israel would be shitting purple twinkies.........
they tend to do that a lot.

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## MM_Haider

mjnaushad said:


> This picture is of IDEAS.... So there is something going on just not coming on the front because of political reasons.



Peceptions Perceptions and Perceptions!!! If wishes were horses...


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## nescafe

okay guys, heres another one, i have copied it from another blog.... the newspaper is more authentic (*buissness recorder*)

An ICBM with 7,000-km range on its way?
ISHFAQULLAH SHAWL
ISLAMABAD (August 13 2009): Pakistan is contemplating developing an Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) with a 7,000 km range to make the country's defence impregnable and strengthen the armed forces of the country against any offence. The plan was evolved after successful test fire of Agni IV, the Indian ICBM system with a target range of 6000 km, which caused an imbalance of power in South Asia, extremely well informed defence sources told Business Recorder here on Wednesday.

Sources maintained that preparations are underway for the development of this long range ballistic missile and very soon it would be test fired. It would have the capacity to carry conventional and nuclear war heads. This missile, if successfully test fired, will be a milestone in the history of the country and a major achievement of scientists and engineers of Pakistan.

The possession of this ICBM not only will make Pakistan's defence impregnable but will also help create a balance of power in the region, which defence analysts believe was disturbed by the Indian test firing of Agni IV missile with a range of 6000 kilometres.

This scribe contacted high officials of the Defence Ministry who claimed ignorance of this development and refused to comment on this matter. The Director General of the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), when contacted by this scribe also said that he was not aware of the development of the ICBM with a range of 7000 kilometre. It is pertinent to note that India recently test fired the 6000-kilometer Agni IV Missile with a capacity to hit and destroy targets deep in China.



but, there is a flaw, the following online link is no more active 

Business Recorder [Pakistan's First Financial Daily]

you can also check out this thread which has refered to *aaj.tv*, but again the page is no more there.

http://www.pakistantalk.com/forums/nuclear-missiles/3027-icbm-7-000-km-range-its-way.html

there is definitely something brewing

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## MZUBAIR

Pakistan is also working on MIRV..
n I feel that it will be imtegrated with it.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Avatar said:


> Dude are you really on crack or you just like to pretend that way ? Please be REALISTIC ! This is a defence forum not a fantasy forum lol !



You ll soon find out who is living in a fantasy lol


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## ice_man

i think a missile shield is more of a necessity rather than an ICBM!!! after all who are we trying to target with an ICBM? the bloody americans? our enemy is our neighbor!! let's just keep it simple!!


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## Developereo

Why are we getting excited over year old articles?

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## Bang Galore

ice_man said:


> i think a missile shield is more of a necessity rather than an ICBM!!! after all who are we trying to target with an ICBM? the bloody americans? our enemy is our neighbor!! let's just keep it simple!!






nescafe said:


> okay guys, heres another one, i have copied it from another blog.... the newspaper is more authentic (*buissness recorder*)
> 
> An ICBM with 7,000-km range on its way?
> ISHFAQULLAH SHAWL
> ISLAMABAD (August 13 2009): Pakistan is *contemplatin*g developing an Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) with a 7,000 km range to make the country's defence impregnable and strengthen the armed forces of the country against any offence. T*he plan was evolved after successful test fire of Agni IV, the Indian ICBM system with a target range of 6000 km, which caused an imbalance of power in South Asia, extremely well informed defence sources told Business Recorder here on Wednesday.*
> 
> 
> The possession of this ICBM not only will make Pakistan's defence impregnable but will also help create a balance of power in the region, *which defence analysts believe was disturbed by the Indian test firing of Agni IV missile with a range of 6000 kilometres.
> *
> 
> * It is pertinent to note that India recently test fired the 6000-kilometer Agni IV Missile with a capacity to hit and destroy targets deep in China.*
> 
> there is definitely something brewing



Actualyy it says that they are *contemplating.* The reasoning given borders on the ridiculous; India has a weapon to target China, so Pakistan has to have the same? Balance of power being disturbed? Why should anyone in India care if you can hit China,Japan,SK,West Asia or Europe? See how ridiculous that sounds? If this is indeed how your defence analysts think, then we in India can relax a bit. Half the world will come down on you like a ton of bricks. ice_man understands priorities a lot better than the experts quoted in this article.


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## khurasaan1

greatsequence said:


> I still dont get the purpose of the device. It would have been better to invest in real good SAMS.



It has the same purpose the US do...
cuz Pak is a partner of US and is trying to shoulder its burden too...


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## khurasaan1

Bang Galore said:


> Actualyy it says that they are *contemplating.* The reasoning given borders on the ridiculous; India has a weapon to target China, so Pakistan has to have the same? Balance of power being disturbed? Why should anyone in India care if you can hit China,Japan,SK,West Asia or Europe? See how ridiculous that sounds? If this is indeed how your defence analysts think, then we in India can relax a bit. Half the world will come down on you like a ton of bricks. ice_man understands priorities a lot better than the experts quoted in this article.



see so is good now that u guyz understands we not ur enemy. We just trying to master the techz and thats all...


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## khurasaan1

Developereo said:


> Why are we getting excited over year old articles?



yes ure right that we feeling happy over the 2 year old article...
and nothing has been done except doing the article game ...we need test now...


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## khurasaan1

ice_man said:


> i think a missile shield is more of a necessity rather than an ICBM!!! after all who are we trying to target with an ICBM? the bloody americans? our enemy is our neighbor!! let's just keep it simple!!



any country who is going to threat us is our enemy no matterz who...


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## LeGenD

proudpakistanistudent said:


> What is the use of having long range missiles?


The key term is _threat perceptions_. 

Primary benefit is to boost the deterrence factor. However, this is costly venture.



proudpakistanistudent said:


> .Lets have a imaginary war.
> Pakistan has launched this ICBM to a country X, 6000KM away. Wont it be alerted by its radar, or the countries that it passes through?


Yes! Missile flight paths can be monitored and appropriate defenses or responses can be put to alert. USA and Russia have systems in place which constantly monitor these activities.



proudpakistanistudent said:


> If so, they wont it have its AAA destroy it or a counter SAM?
> Even can hit it with a UAV?


Depends upon the implemented counter-measures. At the moment, very few nations have functional ABM systems in place. Research is still in progress to improve these systems.



proudpakistanistudent said:


> Its destruction is what should matter. If it has capabilty to attack 7000KM, then wont it be filled with fuel, not the warhead?


Fuel systems propel a missile in to a pre-designated flight path. Warheads are placed in the front capsule of every missile.



Screambowl said:


> Taking down a ballistic missile, be it 30 years old, is not an easy task. Only few countries have this capability and that is also without 100&#37; kill assurance. Test are going on. India has it, so it is possible if you launch towards east, India can try to shoot it down. If you launch it towards west then may be Americans can take it down IF they have installed BMD in Afghanistan. In old soviet region it could be shot down before entering the mainland Europe. Basically it depends on the treaty between the countires. But as I said Experiments are still going on to achieve 100% kill BMD technology.


Agreed here. Though, new approaches to tackle these threats might make things a lot easier in the future.



l094421 said:


> Well 100 % is not possible..!! i dont know much but if one launches alot of such missiles..not all can be intercepted right? maybe 5 out of 15 will be intercepted 10 may go forward.


Nothing is impossible. Primary factors are level of research and allocation of resources. 



l094421 said:


> And i think as the BMD develops there may also come some safety features in the missiles too.Does BMD system use heat to destroy ? If it does then like planes missiles can also use some deceiving tactics right?


Their are many ways to develop a BMD capability. Traditional methods involve using special missiles that can kill incoming missiles on flight.

Here is an example:






This system is in an advanced stage of missile interception through another missile. Approach used here is *H-T-K (Hit to kill)*

In the earlier models, approach was limited to *mid-air explosion*, and not collision.

However, some new and more revolutionary approaches are also under trials.

Have a look at this case:



> *Laser Plane Shoots Down Test Missile*
> 
> The U.S. Missile Defense Agency's airborne laser this week achieved a record first when it shot down a ballistic missile launched off the California coast.
> 
> The MDA's Airborne Laser Testbed, a Boeing 747 with a massive chemical laser in the nose, took off from Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., on Feb. 11 and fired its laser at "a short-range threat-representative ballistic missile &#8230; launched from an at-sea mobile launch platform," reads a Feb. 11 MDA announcement.
> 
> The laser locked on to the missile as it was rising in its boost phase and heated it to the point of "critical structural failure," the MDA statement said.
> 
> The agency said this was the first time a laser fired from an airplane in flight has been able to destroy a ballistic missile on the rise.
> 
> "This experiment marks the first time a laser weapon has engaged and destroyed an in-flight ballistic missile, and the first time that any system has accomplished it in the missile's boost phase of flight," reads a Feb. 12 Boeing announcement. The laser is the most powerful ever installed on an aircraft, according to the company.
> 
> The Airborne Laser (ABL) plane is designed to fly just beyond the range of enemy air defenses and use its laser cannon to shoot down ballistic missiles as they are taking off, which is extremely difficult to do today due to the incredibly high speeds that missiles fly.
> 
> "Having the capability to precisely project force, in a measured way, at the speed of light, will save lives," said Michael Rinn, Boeing's ALTB program manager, of the ABL in a Feb. 12 statement.



Here are some videos of this test:


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## Tajdar adil

scrumpy said:


> Does Pakistan have a shortage of enemies that it seeks to make more enemies?[/QUOT
> 
> We have lots of hidden enemies and Israel is our enemy.


----------



## nescafe

Bang Galore said:


> Actualyy it says that they are *contemplating.* The reasoning given borders on the ridiculous; India has a weapon to target China, so Pakistan has to have the same? Balance of power being disturbed? Why should anyone in India care if you can hit China,Japan,SK,West Asia or Europe? See how ridiculous that sounds? If this is indeed how your defence analysts think, then we in India can relax a bit. Half the world will come down on you like a ton of bricks. ice_man understands priorities a lot better than the experts quoted in this article.



thanks for reading. personally i beleive in viewing every thing with relation to time. and my time domain is spirtually governed. its the way i integrate things and i simply dont beleive how secular pakistani generals think.

the point is that in next 5 - 10 years, we are seeing a massive war in middle east. in parallel to that pakistan will be forced to TAP-OUT against its passion for nukes. i do think if americans really want they can precisely target all our mobile launchers and can dismantle us wihtin hours. so there is no need for ICBM. no need at all.

as a muslim i am not prepared to win. but i am prepared to put in my best. as a muslim i beleive the forces of zionism will win , and only then the salvation will come. 

"in the end times there will be so much blood shed in the middle east that 999 our of 1000 arabs will die" - Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

the 60 billion $ deal cannot stop that blood shed neither do our limited and innocent ICBM.


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## prototype

Screambowl said:


> Taking down a ballistic missile, be it 30 years old, is not an easy task. Only few countries have this capability and that is also without 100% kill assurance. Test are going on. India has it, so it is possible if you launch towards east, India can try to shoot it down. If you launch it towards west then may be Americans can take it down IF they have installed BMD in Afghanistan. In old soviet region it could be shot down before entering the mainland Europe. Basically it depends on the treaty between the countires. But as I said Experiments are still going on to achieve 100% kill BMD technology.



India do not posses anti ICBM capability,what India is working on currently is only ABM against theater range missiles.

Even in the second phase of Indian program we r only developing shield(ad-1 and ad-2)as a deterrent against a range of 5000 kms only,at current level we can only stop missiles with a range of 2500.



We even dont need a deterrent against ICBM's,but for the sake of acquiring tech we can do it


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## prototype

nescafe said:


> okay guys, heres another one, i have copied it from another blog.... the newspaper is more authentic (*buissness recorder*)
> 
> An ICBM with 7,000-km range on its way?
> ISHFAQULLAH SHAWL
> ISLAMABAD (August 13 2009): Pakistan is contemplating developing an Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) with a 7,000 km range to make the country's defence impregnable and strengthen the armed forces of the country against any offence. *The plan was evolved after successful test fire of Agni IV, the Indian ICBM system with a target range of 6000 km,* which caused an imbalance of power in South Asia, extremely well informed defence sources told Business Recorder here on Wednesday.



india do not have a missile called agni-4 and so far we do not have developed any ICBM capability,this article is a complete thrash


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## Tajdar adil

scrumpy said:


> Does Pakistan have a shortage of enemies that it seeks to make more enemies?



No i am right Israel also make an atemp to attack our nuclear sites with India in 2002 and also suplly a UAV to India in kargil war and India also accepted......


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## truthseeker2010

I hope that it will be MIRV capable otherwise it will not be very effective.


----------



## Haseebullah

TheDeletedUser said:


> Hmmm... okay. Can anyone tell me what Pakistan hopes to achieve with this? I mean what other countries do you have that are hostile towards you apart from India (which is already in range).
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister. His words, as printed in the Jewish Chronicle, 9 August 1967, leave nothing to imagination:

"The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs.

"This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan.

"Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work therefrom against Pakistan.

"It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans. ____

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## Bharatrox

SilentNinja said:


> how do you know if we haven't developed MIRV tech??? just because we didn't launch a space capsule doesn't mean we don't have MIRV!
> 
> 
> 
> and user trial for what? The missile was already tested before induction and its pointless to test something who's capabilities you already know unless of course you upgrade it!



as far as I know Pakistan might have achieved MIRV tech with the help of chinese. They were in advance stage of building these RV. 
I think if it was tested, then multiple projectiles might have been tracked in upper atmosphere by radio telescope and other radars and satellites.


----------



## Last Hope

Haseebullah said:


> David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister. His words, as printed in the Jewish Chronicle, 9 August 1967, leave nothing to imagination:
> 
> "The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs.
> 
> "This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan.
> 
> "Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work therefrom against Pakistan.
> 
> "It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans. ____



As far as I know,
These awere the words:
"The world zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. Whereas the inhibitants of India are Hindus whose heart have been full of hatred towards Muslims...Therefore India is the most important base to work from.It is essential for us to crunch Pakistan by all *disguise* and means"

David Ben
Jewish Chronicles
9/8/1967

I guess these things are still going on.
Is this why Indo-Israel ties are maintained strong?

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## Dalai Lama

Haseebullah said:


> David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister. His words, as printed in the Jewish Chronicle, 9 August 1967, leave nothing to imagination:
> 
> "The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs.
> 
> "This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan.
> 
> "Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work therefrom against Pakistan.
> 
> "It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans. ____



1) 1967, this is 2010 mate.
2) Credible source please.


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## Dalai Lama

proudpakistanistudent said:


> As far as I know,
> These awere the words:
> "The world zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. Whereas the inhibitants of India are Hindus whose heart have been full of hatred towards Muslims...Therefore India is the most important base to work from.It is essential for us to crunch Pakistan by all *disguise* and means"
> 
> David Ben
> Jewish Chronicles
> 9/8/1967
> 
> *I guess these things are still going on.
> Is this why Indo-Israel ties are maintained strong?*



Indo-Israel ties are "maintained strong" because both India and Israel have much to gain from each other.

In the case of India: Hi-tech military equipment at reasonable prices.
In the case of Israel: Access to India's space programme.


----------



## ARSENAL6

@ DELETEDUSER

oh stop being a ponce
the poster was only saying what David Ben Gurion

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## Dalai Lama

self-delete


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## F-16_Falcon

nescafe said:


> okay guys, heres another one, i have copied it from another blog.... the newspaper is more authentic (*buissness recorder*)
> 
> An ICBM with 7,000-km range on its way?
> ISHFAQULLAH SHAWL
> ISLAMABAD (August 13 2009): Pakistan is contemplating developing an Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) with a 7,000 km range to make the country's defence impregnable and strengthen the armed forces of the country against any offence. The plan was evolved after successful test fire of Agni IV, the Indian ICBM system with a target range of 6000 km, which caused an imbalance of power in South Asia, extremely well informed defence sources told Business Recorder here on Wednesday.
> 
> Sources maintained that preparations are underway for the development of this long range ballistic missile and very soon it would be test fired. It would have the capacity to carry conventional and nuclear war heads. This missile, if successfully test fired, will be a milestone in the history of the country and a major achievement of scientists and engineers of Pakistan.
> 
> The possession of this ICBM not only will make Pakistan's defence impregnable but will also help create a balance of power in the region, which defence analysts believe was disturbed by the Indian test firing of Agni IV missile with a range of 6000 kilometres.
> 
> This scribe contacted high officials of the Defence Ministry who claimed ignorance of this development and refused to comment on this matter. The Director General of the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), when contacted by this scribe also said that he was not aware of the development of the ICBM with a range of 7000 kilometre. It is pertinent to note that India recently test fired the 6000-kilometer Agni IV Missile with a capacity to hit and destroy targets deep in China.
> 
> 
> 
> but, there is a flaw, the following online link is no more active
> 
> Business Recorder [Pakistan's First Financial Daily]
> 
> you can also check out this thread which has refered to *aaj.tv*, but again the page is no more there.
> 
> An ICBM with 7,000-km range on its way? - Pakistan Talk Forums
> 
> there is definitely something brewing



brecorder is much better than mushy website daily.pk.


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## Dalai Lama

ice_man said:


> i think a missile shield is more of a necessity rather than an ICBM!!! after all who are we trying to target with an ICBM? the bloody americans? our enemy is our neighbor!! let's just keep it simple!!



You mean something like this?


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## PAFAce

TheDeletedUser said:


> You mean something like this?


No, he means something that will actually work against enemy missiles.

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## Stealth_fighter

TheDeletedUser said:


> 1) 1967, this is 2010 mate.
> 2) Credible source please.


no need for a source..Israel is the enemy of all muslims...that is the source...

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## monitor12345

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> AWESOME!... our SLV programe will also be benefited.



Inspite of having 1500 km range missiles , Why Pakistan is very behind in launching satellites. 
India to launch 30 communication satellites in a decade that means, every year 3 satellites.

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## Hyde

monitor12345 said:


> Inspite of having 1500 km range missiles , Why Pakistan is very behind in launching satellites.
> India to launch 30 communication satellites in a decade that means, every year 3 satellites.



because the government never arranged funds for space program. They are least interested in competing with other nations when it comes to space and satellite launching.

Only recently they started allocating some funds to SUPARCO and finally we are witnessing some movement in this field too. Its still too low comparing to other nations

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## Dalai Lama

PAFAce said:


> No, he means something that will actually work against enemy missiles.



Yeah, that's right because evil hindus obviously cannot possibly invent something that works! 



> India announced in January 2008 that it has developed a two-layered ballistic missile defence (BMD) system to counter enemy missiles. The system, comprising 'exo' and 'endo' atmospheric interceptors, destroys incoming ballistic missiles at altitudes above 40km and below 25km, respectively.
> This followed a surprise announcement by the Indian Ministry of Defence in November 2006 that it had successfully destroyed a simulated incoming enemy ballistic missile while it was 78km above the Bay of Bengal, still outside the earth's atmosphere, which was greeted with scepticism.
> 
> Most analysts did not believe that India's missile defence programme was that far advanced.
> 
> However, another 'exo-atmospheric' interception was successfully completed in November 2007, and a further trial demonstrating the interception of a live ballistic missile was held in December last year. It now seems clear that India does indeed have the military capabilities to join an elite club of countries &#8211; the US, Russia and Israel &#8211; that have the technology to destroy incoming missiles.




EDIT: Think of it what you will, however the message is clear: While Pakistan spends it's time trying to nuke India, India spends it's time trying not to get nuked. Speaks volumes of who the aggressor is here.

This will be my last post here to avoid being accused of off-topic posts. I might as well stop here. And I'm sure you'll get a lot of thanks for that clever line of yours.


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## PAFAce

monitor12345 said:


> Inspite of having 1500 km range missiles , Why Pakistan is very behind in launching satellites.
> India to launch 30 communication satellites in a decade that means, every year 3 satellites.


Priorities. Every country has their own. Your life may revolve around the capabilities of Pakistan and China, but ours obviously doesn't.

Pakistan's geopolitical position makes it more important for us to develop an ICBM than an SLV, hence that is the first choice. Also, Pakistan has always focused on an incremental model, whereas India seems to focus on a spiral model of development. These are project engineering terms, you should Google them.


TheDeletedUser said:


> Yeah, that's right because evil hindus obviously cannot possibly invent something that works!


Umm... Before this fit, you should have gone and researched the capabilities of the AAD and the PAD vis-a-vis Pakistan's missiles. Neither one of these will help against Pakistan's top-notch ballistic missiles (Shaheen and Ghauri), and China's missiles will be launched from beyond the detection range, so what, then, is the purpose of these systems? I mean, all you've got is upgraded Israeli tech built to counter Iraqi and Iranian ballistic programs.

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## Dalai Lama

self-delete


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## Hindutvadi

PAFAce said:


> I mean, all you've got is upgraded Israeli tech built to counter Iraqi and Iranian ballistic programs.


Being a moderator we expect you to post some sensible posts so that we could learn from you. Posting baseless stuff just for the purpose of argument is of no worth. How have you come to a conclusion that AAD and PAD are upgraded Israeli systems? Atleast spare India on this issue..Indian efforts are Indigenous and if you dont agree...i'd expect you to provide a source.


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## mourning sage

Hindutvadi said:


> Being a moderator we expect you to post some sensible posts so that we could learn from you. Posting baseless stuff just for the purpose of argument is of no worth. How have you come to a conclusion that AAD and PAD are upgraded Israeli systems? Atleast spare India on this issue..Indian efforts are Indigenous and if you dont agree...i'd expect you to provide a source.



yeah right
just like the LCA, would you call this extraordinary project with most of imported components indeginous?
n i dont think i need to provide a source for that.

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## Hindutvadi

gohar321 said:


> yeah right
> just like the LCA, would you call this extraordinary project with most of imported components indeginous?
> n i dont think i need to provide a source for that.


Oh...waht are those *most of imported components*?


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## Safron Slayer

Its rather easy to name the home grown things than the exported ones just because the list is very long.
So the "Indigenous" things built in home are..... landing wheels, external lCD lights, Aluminium, steel, paint and most important the super duper name " Tejas "

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## Bharatrox

PAFAce said:


> Priorities. Every country has their own. Your life may revolve around the capabilities of Pakistan and China, but ours obviously doesn't.
> 
> Pakistan's geopolitical position makes it more important for us to develop an ICBM than an SLV, hence that is the first choice. Also, Pakistan has always focused on an incremental model, whereas India seems to focus on a spiral model of development. These are project engineering terms, you should Google them.




I do not believe this. It is just an excuse. No one in the world will deny the launch of a satellite for themselves. It helps them in 100 ways. Even if you are concentrating more on Missile developments, satellite is something a first part of it. Because To build a Ballistic missile one should first know how satellites are thrown. Reentry of the RV and making a rocket so compact is a very late stage, after understanding rockets. But your case is a bit different. You had M-11(MRBM) from the start. But what I really appreciate is the painting job, because putting it on a ballistic missile is seriously a different area of study and requires Phd level people to do that job and to fuel and launch it. I am not kidding. 



PAFAce said:


> Umm... Before this fit, you should have gone and researched the capabilities of the AAD and the PAD vis-a-vis Pakistan's missiles. Neither one of these will help against Pakistan's top-notch ballistic missiles (Shaheen and Ghauri), and *China's missiles will be launched from beyond the detection range, so what, then, is the purpose of these systems? I mean, all you've got is upgraded Israeli tech built to counter Iraqi and Iranian ballistic programs.*



well, we have many things to detect and can detect 100kg object 300,000kms from earth. 
That is for detection. 
Coming to Iraqi and Iranian thing, well you need to revise your lessons. 


Now coming to your war scenario, if missiles were have to be launched, till now you and they would have launched it. What is stopping you to launch the missile?? I think it is the same nuclear threat you posses. That is enough. Nearing to destroying a Ballistic missile is not yet 100&#37; prove, may be we have 1% chance of destroying it. But we can destroy satellites it's just a political decision.


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## farhan_9909

Can a re entry vehicle is used for Setellite launching only or can be used for any other purpose also?

an indian told me pak dnt have re entry capability if it would have then pak would have launched its own setellite


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## Bharatrox

farhan_9909 said:


> Can a re entry vehicle is used for Setellite launching only or can be used for any other purpose also?
> 
> an indian told me pak dnt have re entry capability if it would have then pak would have launched its own setellite



no its the other way round. What we are wondering is, Pakistan has a reentry Vehicle technology, and compact missiles, why cant Pakistan launch its satellite a simple 50-100 kg satellite. 

Because mostly what happens, first you do experiments, how an object is thrown into space in a particular orbit. Once you master that then later you do reentry experiments.


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## ARSENAL6

monitor12345 said:


> Inspite of having 1500 km range missiles , Why Pakistan is very behind in launching satellites.
> India to launch 30 communication satellites in a decade that means, every year 3 satellites.



Is pakistan will be doing the same thing ?

satalight is a must for defence.


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## DesiGuy

ARSENAL6 said:


> Is pakistan will be doing the same thing ?
> 
> satalight is a must for defence.





i heard china is launching for them in 2011. 

don't know if it's for military though.


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## ARSENAL6

DesiGuy said:


> i heard china is launching for them in 2011.
> 
> don't know if it's for military though.



Yeah I heard that but I was wondering if Pakistan was having its own launch pad

or even have a man in space.


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## AUz

ARSENAL6 said:


> Yeah I heard that but I was wondering if Pakistan was having its own launch pad
> 
> or even have a man in space.



Well, it depends on economy.Look with a economy of just*$166 billions*, we are still doing better (in Ballistic missile program) than the countries having *10x* larger economies

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## ARSENAL6

AUz said:


> Well, it depends on economy.Look with a economy of just*$166 billions*, we are still doing better (in Ballistic missile program) than the countries having *10x* larger economies



Well i hope you get there.


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## Developereo

Bharatrox said:


> But what I really appreciate is the painting job, because putting it on a ballistic missile is seriously a different area of study and requires Phd level people to do that job and to fuel and launch it. I am not kidding.



Pakistani universities do not offer PhD; they all stop at the masters level.

I heard a rumor that a university in Karachi has launched a PhD program, but I think is in 'advanced painting materials'.

I am not kidding.


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## khurasaan1

nescafe said:


> thanks for reading. personally i beleive in viewing every thing with relation to time. and my time domain is spirtually governed. its the way i integrate things and i simply dont beleive how secular pakistani generals think.
> 
> the point is that in next 5 - 10 years, we are seeing a massive war in middle east. in parallel to that pakistan will be forced to TAP-OUT against its passion for nukes. i do think if americans really want they can precisely target all our mobile launchers and can dismantle us wihtin hours. so there is no need for ICBM. no need at all.
> 
> as a muslim i am not prepared to win. but i am prepared to put in my best. as a muslim i beleive the forces of zionism will win , and only then the salvation will come.
> 
> "in the end times there will be so much blood shed in the middle east that 999 our of 1000 arabs will die" - Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
> 
> the 60 billion $ deal cannot stop that blood shed neither do our limited and innocent ICBM.



but it is sunnah to equip our forces with all kindz of available weapons....no matterz what and ICBMs are one of them...


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## MM_Haider

Developereo said:


> *Pakistani universities do not offer PhD; they all stop at the masters level.*
> I heard a rumor that a university in Karachi has launched a PhD program, but I think is in 'advanced painting materials'.
> 
> I am not kidding.



Referring to the *bold* line above, i didn't get you! Could you please elaborate further...?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> but it is sunnah to equip our forces with all kindz of available weapons....no matterz what and ICBMs are one of them...



It not just about Sunnah... Its common sense... To hit Mobile Launchers takes time during which you can send them ballistic missiles flying!!!


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## Bharatrox

Developereo said:


> Pakistani universities do not offer PhD; they all stop at the masters level.
> 
> I heard a rumor that a university in Karachi has launched a PhD program, but I think is in 'advanced painting materials'.
> 
> I am not kidding.



I don't agree because the PhD is only in some areas, but they offer.


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## mourning sage

self delete


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## Sinnerman108

ARSENAL6 said:


> Yeah I heard that but I was wondering if Pakistan was having its own launch pad
> 
> or even have a man in space.



Program has been underway since the last 7 years that I know of.

Gen Musharraf was ahead in announcing it.

staged around getting a launch and re-entry vehicle Goes as far as landing on the moon.


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## Super Falcon

now SLV should be next goal build aleast 2 in each provinces in pakistan


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## PAFAce

Hindutvadi said:


> Being a moderator we expect you to post some sensible posts so that we could learn from you. Posting baseless stuff just for the purpose of argument is of no worth. How have you come to a conclusion that AAD and PAD are upgraded Israeli systems? Atleast spare India on this issue..Indian efforts are Indigenous and if you dont agree...i'd expect you to provide a source.


Okay, firstly, instead of getting so emotional you should have, maybe, Googled the terms "AAD" and "PAD", clicked on one of the links (take your pick), pressed Ctrl+F and typed "Israel". Your question about "how I can think it is an upgraded Israeli tech" would be answered.

Obviously, your research will be selective. Therefore, this is the last time I will address you.


Bharatrox said:


> I do not believe this. It is just an excuse. No one in the world will deny the launch of a satellite for themselves. It helps them in 100 ways. Even if you are concentrating more on Missile developments, satellite is something a first part of it. Because To build a Ballistic missile one should first know how satellites are thrown. Reentry of the RV and making a rocket so compact is a very late stage, after understanding rockets.


Allow me to say this on behalf of, oh, around 170 Million people... What you "believe" or "perceive" about our needs is of less value to us than, say, a rusted penny. You can try and justify what you need, but please, stop trying to pretend that you know what our requirements are better than we do.


> But your case is a bit different. You had M-11(MRBM) from the start. But what I really appreciate is the painting job, because putting it on a ballistic missile is seriously a different area of study and requires Phd level people to do that job and to fuel and launch it. I am not kidding.


You mean much in the same way as, say, the paint job on the LCA and the BrahMos is much appreciated by us.


> well, we have many things to detect and can detect 100kg object 300,000kms from earth.
> That is for detection.


Once again, research is key. The real-time detection capability of the PAD/AAD is different from the detecting ability of your "indigenous" spy satellites. Until a missile is well on its way, you wouldn't even know where to point your satellites' sensors. The detection range of the AAD/PAD is far more limited, hence, it is o absolutely no threat to China.


> Coming to Iraqi and Iranian thing, well you need to revise your lessons.


I hate repeating myself, so please follow the instructions given to Mr. Hindutvadi above.


> But we can destroy satellites it's just a political decision.


Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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## I M Sikander

Developereo said:


> Pakistani universities do not offer PhD; they all stop at the masters level.



Who told you this non sense, better learn about pakistani university and then pass on such comments. better concentrate on the topic.


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## krash

ares said:


> We understand..you lack the initiative.



Actually its more a question of wisdom than initiative. "I was first! I was first!" in this situation mirrors idiocy no? More like the Pakistani nuclear explosions.


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## logic

Our people need work and food not these fancy toys costing billions.
In my opinion Pakistan should spend all the relevant money into education and food security plus infrastructure.


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## gangsta_rap

logic said:


> Our people need work and food not these fancy toys costing billions.
> In my opinion Pakistan should spend all the relevant money into education and food security plus infrastructure.



Logic,it would be difficult for any of us to disagree with you but honestly the blame is not to be put on Pakistan's military funding.


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## alibaz

logic said:


> Our people need work and food not these fancy toys costing billions.
> In my opinion Pakistan should spend all the relevant money into education and food security plus infrastructure.


 
Yes we must divert more resources to education and food security but not at the cost of defence instead we need to save by paying our taxes, avoid tax evasion, bringing our assets back, avoid burdening national exchequer for personal interests.


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## cipla

why does pakistan needs ICBM when it is india centric?


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## AUz

cipla said:


> why does pakistan needs ICBM when it is india centric?



And thats what *You guys* think 

Actually we want to hit you from 'Western Side' means by going around the world...After all we are India centric

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

cipla said:


> why does pakistan needs ICBM



If we tolud you , ve vill have to keel youh.

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## Super Falcon

hahahahaha yes but pakistani will hiit you from acroos the gobe not only but destroy forever well wishers like israel of india thats why and well wisher of israel too hope you all understand we need world free from israeli jews israel itself and americans and englishman forever they all are reasons of world's poverty and probleums


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## Dazzler

It under the wraps, descendant of Shaheen series, ready to be tested folks, fingers crossed

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## rohitshubham

Developereo said:


> Pakistani universities do not offer PhD; they all stop at the masters level.
> 
> I heard a rumor that a university in Karachi has launched a PhD program, but I think is in 'advanced painting materials'.
> 
> I am not kidding.



REALLLLLYYYYY!!!!


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## Sinnerman108

rohitshubham said:


> REALLLLLYYYYY!!!!



Ohhh, nice hindustani !

Amongst the utterly bizzare and awe inspiring things Hindustanis are capable of, lets add small cynical comment ability also.

Now, back to thread, let me address your concerns this way.

After the PHD degree also we don't like any thing better than destroying Hindustan
And without PHD also, we don't like any thing better than destroying Hindustan.


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> It not just about Sunnah... Its common sense... To hit Mobile Launchers takes time during which you can send them ballistic missiles flying!!!



bro ..Sunnah is actually commonsense and our need....


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## Sinnerman108

nabil_05 said:


> It under the wraps, descendant of Shaheen series, ready to be tested folks, fingers crossed



Khalis sexy news !


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## Imran Khan

7000km is really a huge boost for a country like pakistan i am expecting 3500+


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## Sinnerman108

Peace101 said:


> 7000km is really a huge boost for a country like pakistan i am expecting 3500+



Been there, done that.
Update your fact sheet.

Now please explain your remark " 7000km is really a huge boost for a country like pakistan"

What precisely is so shocking ??


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## DV RULES

We have not any trusted resources to confirm this news where even ISPR denied in AUGUST 2009 to talk over and refuse this news. When any responsible authority will come to announce then we can make any discussion over this. Till that time only WISHING ALL THE BEST & BEST OF LUCK.


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## Imran Khan

salman108 said:


> Been there, done that.
> Update your fact sheet.
> 
> Now please explain your remark " 7000km is really a huge boost for a country like pakistan"
> 
> What precisely is so shocking ??



which satellite will guide the missile?why direct 2500km to 7000km . and were is gonna test such missile?


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## alibaz

Peace101 said:


> which satellite will guide the missile?why direct 2500km to 7000km . and were is gonna test such missile?



Pakistani missiles are not much dependent on satellites for guidance. So no problems....


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## Imran Khan

alibaz said:


> Pakistani missiles are not much dependent on satellites for guidance. So no problems....



but 7000km range need it sir i really dont know how n.korea can fire ICBM


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## alibaz

Peace101 said:


> but 7000km range need it sir i really dont know how n.korea can fire ICBM



Sir if this is not possible for Pakistan then world should relax and stop worrying till China completely deploys its GPS satellites in 2015.


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## Imran Khan

alibaz said:


> Sir if this is not possible for Pakistan then world should relax and stop worrying till China completely deploys its GPS satellites in 2015.



may be n.korea will fire on USA and missile will land in Brazil


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## alibaz

Peace101 said:


> may be n.korea will fire on USA and missile will land in Brazil



 only

If Pakistan has 7000 km range missile then let it come out and we all will see. So far it is on net


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Peace101 said:


> which satellite will guide the missile?why direct 2500km to 7000km . and were is gonna test such missile?



Maybe this one?
Pakistan to launch indigenously-developed satellite - Satellite TV Market News


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## Imran Khan

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Maybe this one?
> Pakistan to launch indigenously-developed satellite - Satellite TV Market News



paksat-1 is not that satellite sir .paksat is communication civil satellite.


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## vking

alibaz said:


> Pakistani missiles are not much dependent on satellites for guidance. So no problems....



How can it be possible??7000 km without guidance of any satellite


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## Tariq Mahmood Khan

I think a GPS is needed for navigation of a ICBM a stand alone satellite can't do a navigation job


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Peace101 said:


> paksat-1 is not that satellite sir .paksat is communication civil satellite.



Pakistan will be launching 4 sats in next few years........ and our own SLV is under development according to Dr.Samar Mubarik.


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## Imran Khan

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Pakistan will be launching 4 sats in next few years........ and our own SLV is under development according to Dr.Samar Mubarik.



so its mean ICBM test is 5 years far away even we have.


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## TaimiKhan

In older days, were the ballistic missiles guided by GPS ?? No. 

Thus GPS is not needed to guide ballistic missiles, all they need is to land within a few hundred feet of its target, since they have to get a nuke near to the target and rest of the work would be done by the nuke. 

Did the germans use GPS to have their V-1s land on London ?? Nops. 

As told many times, Pakistan uses INS & GIS for guiding its major strategic weapons, does not relies on GPS, as the reason is apparent.

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## Tariq Mahmood Khan

It not true that Pak Universities are not offering Phd. These just stop till MS.Many Engineering universities are offering Phd in different fields like NUST, Center for Advanced Studies in Engineering, CIIT, MAJU etc.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tariq Mahmood Khan said:


> It not true that Pak Universities are not offering Phd. These just stop till MS.Many Engineering universities are offering Phd in different fields like NUST, Center for Advanced Studies in Engineering, CIIT, MAJU etc.



He was being sarcastic.

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## alibaz

TaimiKhan said:


> In older days, were the ballistic missiles guided by GPS ?? No.
> 
> Thus GPS is not needed to guide ballistic missiles, all they need is to land within a few hundred feet of its target, since they have to get a nuke near to the target and rest of the work would be done by the nuke.
> 
> Did the germans use GPS to have their V-1s land on London ?? Nops.
> 
> As told many times, Pakistan uses INS & GIS for guiding its major strategic weapons, does not relies on GPS, as the reason is apparent.


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## Dazzler

TaimiKhan said:


> In older days, were the ballistic missiles guided by GPS ?? No.
> 
> Thus GPS is not needed to guide ballistic missiles, all they need is to land within a few hundred feet of its target, since they have to get a nuke near to the target and rest of the work would be done by the nuke.
> 
> Did the germans use GPS to have their V-1s land on London ?? Nops.
> 
> As told many times, Pakistan uses INS & GIS for guiding its major strategic weapons, does not relies on GPS, as the reason is apparent.



Well said, this makes our missiles even more of a threat to adversary and pretty much prone to be misguided by satellite since it does not rely on them. What i know, this missile has around 3500-4500 km in range, has a MIRV tech, very high speed (Shaheen series is well known for this) PCS (post correction system) and a lethal accuracy of a narrow CEP. Its ready but will be tested when deemed necessary.

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## IceCold

nabil_05 said:


> Well said, this makes our missiles even more of a threat to adversary and pretty much prone to be misguided by satellite since it does not rely on them. What i know, this missile has around *3500-4500 km* in range, has a MIRV tech, very high speed (Shaheen series is well known for this) PCS (post correction system) and a lethal accuracy of a narrow CEP. Its ready but will be tested when deemed necessary.



Which means its not an ICBM. Missiles having a range of 5000 or more classify as an ICBM. BY the way Nabil having a missile of the range you mentioned.......which countries can it hit?


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## Hammy007

nabil_05 said:


> It under the wraps, descendant of Shaheen series, ready to be tested folks, fingers crossed



r u military professional, is this news 100% definite??


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## Dazzler

I just make things up


----------



## Screambowl

PAFAce said:


> Okay, firstly, instead of getting so emotional you should have, maybe, Googled the terms "AAD" and "PAD", clicked on one of the links (take your pick), pressed Ctrl+F and typed "Israel". Your question about "how I can think it is an upgraded Israeli tech" would be answered.


 
If you are talking about the Swordfish RADAR system, then it was jointly developed. And we are planning it to increase its range. 

The AAD and PAD projects are quite different, they possess indigenous Radar System(LRTE , MFCR), navigation, electronics, seeking Radar, motors, etc.. 




PAFAce said:


> Obviously, your research will be selective. Therefore, this is the last time I will address you.
> 
> Allow me to say this on behalf of, oh, around 170 Million people... What you "believe" or "perceive" about our needs is of less value to us than, say, a rusted penny. You can try and justify what you need, but please, stop trying to pretend that you know what our requirements are better than we do.



even if you been a representative of 170 Million people belonging to some government body, i would have denied this fact, reason one is the perception, reason two is you don't posses that technology. It's a blunt statement and quite factual. A country who can spend billions of dollars only on defense will not spend on satellite?
anf if your statement is true, then Pakistan doesn't want to develop, they just want to deter only India with nuclear power. This is your policy. 



PAFAce said:


> You mean much in the same way as, say, the paint job on the LCA and the BrahMos is much appreciated by us.



well if LCA and Brahmos(all versions) were just a paint job, by now it would be inducted and marked operational like your Shaheens(M-11). 








PAFAce said:


> Once again, research is key. The real-time detection capability of the PAD/AAD is different from the detecting ability of your "indigenous" spy satellites. Until a missile is well on its way, you wouldn't even know where to point your satellites' sensors. The detection range of the AAD/PAD is far more limited, hence, it is o absolutely no threat to China.



I am talking about detecting a Missile Launch and tracking a missile trajectory(warning system) apart from what AAD and PAD has(more than enough for all Pakistani's Missile series). For China well by next test we will have capability to cover China completely. 

We have launched SLV's we can track them even 10,000 kms away.

These are two different things you are right. When combined, becomes very useful and that's what we are doing, unfortunately we are not allowing civilian space technology in defense sector. 




PAFAce said:


> I hate repeating myself, so please follow the instructions given to Mr. Hindutvadi above.
> 
> Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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## The Deterrent

ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily[/url]
*ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway*Headlines Thursday, August 13th, 2009 
Pr


Technology to cover range of 7,000 Kms,[/B][/SIZE] Pakistan, to increase its defensive capabilities, has started preparing intercontinental missile with a range of 7000 kilometres. 

According to sources, the intercontinental missile has a range of 7000 kilometres and is capable of hitting its target falling within its range. The missile can contain nuclear as well as traditional warheads. The missile has been termed a significant milestone for the defence of the country and is believed to strengthen the defence. According to sources, the missile would soon be test fired.[/B][/SIZE]
PAF to get airborne refullers next year: Pakistan Air Force plans to induct four Chinese airborne refullers next year, in a move to counter the Indian Air Forces&#8217; enhanced capabilities after New Delhi acquired six similar aircraft, an Indian news agency quoted the PAF chief as saying.

Air Chief Marshal Qamar Suleman underlined that the airborne refullers were necessary to match the IAF capabilities.

&#8220;This is an absolutely new capability which we are inducting. We never had this capability in the PAF,&#8221; Suleman added, maintaining, in order to match the IAF&#8217;s acquisition of the first of three Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), the PAF would receive four Chinese systems between 2011 and 2012.

He also termed as &#8220;alarming&#8221; the IAF&#8217;s intention of purchasing 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, saying Pakistan needed &#8220;to have something matching.:


All you goofs.....there's nothing like an ICBM (5000km+ range missile) underway...we don't have it coz we don't need it.....if you ever hear about a Pakistani ICBM test within the next 12 years,beat me up.....

a missile that,actually, is underway is due for test in a year or two....it will have a range of 4000 km and an entirely new and symbolic name...one which we have not seen in any forum...

My point is,how can you jump to 7000km just after 2500km (shaheen 2)???.....

Come up with credible proof and beat the **** out of me...

BTW,no hard feelings...peace


----------



## Screambowl

AhaseebA said:


> ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily[/url]
> *ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway*Headlines Thursday, August 13th, 2009
> Pr
> 
> 
> Technology to cover range of 7,000 Kms,[/B][/SIZE] Pakistan, to increase its defensive capabilities, has started preparing intercontinental missile with a range of 7000 kilometres.
> 
> According to sources, the intercontinental missile has a range of 7000 kilometres and is capable of hitting its target falling within its range. The missile can contain nuclear as well as traditional warheads. The missile has been termed a significant milestone for the defence of the country and is believed to strengthen the defence. According to sources, the missile would soon be test fired.[/B][/SIZE]
> PAF to get airborne refullers next year: Pakistan Air Force plans to induct four Chinese airborne refullers next year, in a move to counter the Indian Air Forces&#8217; enhanced capabilities after New Delhi acquired six similar aircraft, an Indian news agency quoted the PAF chief as saying.
> 
> Air Chief Marshal Qamar Suleman underlined that the airborne refullers were necessary to match the IAF capabilities.
> 
> &#8220;This is an absolutely new capability which we are inducting. We never had this capability in the PAF,&#8221; Suleman added, maintaining, in order to match the IAF&#8217;s acquisition of the first of three Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), the PAF would receive four Chinese systems between 2011 and 2012.
> 
> He also termed as &#8220;alarming&#8221; the IAF&#8217;s intention of purchasing 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, saying Pakistan needed &#8220;to have something matching.:
> 
> 
> All you goofs.....there's nothing like an ICBM (5000km+ range missile) underway...we don't have it coz we don't need it.....if you ever hear about a Pakistani ICBM test within the next 12 years,beat me up.....
> 
> a missile that,actually, is underway is due for test in a year or two....it will have a range of 4000 km and an entirely new and symbolic name...one which we have not seen in any forum...
> 
> *My point is,how can you jump to 7000km just after 2500km (shaheen 2)???.....*
> 
> Come up with credible proof and beat the **** out of me...
> 
> BTW,no hard feelings...peace




the same way from Shaheen I - 800kms to Shaheen II -3500kms. I meant, acquire it from China, looking at the situation in Afghanistan, China might have given you the building blocks.


----------



## IamINDIA

i think pak needs to work on more accurate missles and MRIV tech instead of longer range missle which dosent really need

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## AUz

IamINDIA said:


> i think* pak needs to work on more accurate missles* and MRIV tech instead of longer range missle which dosent really need



hahaha...more accurate???? Just use your uncle google and see the *CEP * of our* Shaheen-II missiles* 

Thanks for your honest advice..Pakistan is already working on MIRV technology.And may we have already tested it


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## Screambowl

IamINDIA said:


> i think pak needs to work on more accurate missles and MRIV tech instead of longer range missle which dosent really need



dude their missiles are 30 -20 years back well tested and proved.

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## The Deterrent

AUz said:


> Thanks for your honest advice..Pakistan is already working on MIRV technology.And may we have already tested it



We haven't tested it yet...


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## TaimiKhan

Screambowl said:


> the same way from Shaheen I - 800kms to Shaheen II -3500kms. I meant, acquire it from China, looking at the situation in Afghanistan, China might have given you the building blocks.





Screambowl said:


> dude their missiles are 30 -20 years back well tested and proved.



I know many of the Indian arses are on fire after seeing their so many missiles going down the drain, but it doesn't gives you the right to hurl accusations which have no fact behind them. 

Yeah, Chinese must have helped us in making our missiles, but you should do a better job by posting pictures of Chinese missiles & Pakistani ones, their specifications and other stuff to tell us that they are exact copy of Chinese missiles. 

And do remember, i have already thrown out a few of your kind who came charging with the above BS and after they could not prove anything, they were sent packing. 

So either shut your this BS or prove whatever you accuses anyone with it.

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## Red Dwarf

TaimiKhan said:


> I know many of the Indian arses are on fire after seeing their so many missiles going down the drain, but it doesn't gives you the right to hurl accusations which have no fact behind them.
> 
> Yeah, Chinese must have helped us in making our missiles, but you should do a better job by posting pictures of Chinese missiles & Pakistani ones, their specifications and other stuff to tell us that they are exact copy of Chinese missiles.
> 
> And do remember, i have already thrown out a few of your kind who came charging with the above BS and after they could not prove anything, they were sent packing.
> 
> So either shut your this BS or prove whatever you accuses anyone with it.



I have one basic question. Why Pakistan don't have a parallel satellite rocket launching system ?. Almost all countries who possess a ballistic missile have some type of satellite launching system too. Even Iran and North Korea has one.

I don't understand why Pakistan still can't create a satellite launching system even after dealing with missile technologies for more than 2 decades.

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## Screambowl

TaimiKhan said:


> I know many of the Indian arses are on fire after seeing their so many missiles going down the drain, but it doesn't gives you the right to hurl accusations which have no fact behind them.
> 
> Yeah, Chinese must have helped us in making our missiles, but you should do a better job by posting pictures of Chinese missiles & Pakistani ones, their specifications and other stuff to tell us that they are exact copy of Chinese missiles.
> 
> And do remember, i have already thrown out a few of your kind who came charging with the above BS and after they could not prove anything, they were sent packing.
> 
> So either shut your this BS or prove whatever you accuses anyone with it.



Apart from Nonsense let me enlighten you that the most missiles which failed are experimental missiles which are tested to see new parameters. Be it 100 years old Technology or 60 years or the latest. testing with new equipments is must!! When a missile fails both success climb and failure is noted and thoroughly studied. Plus we are not satisfied with what we have since we have no intentions to be Pakistan Centric we have already overcome that. And if we have to be Pakistani centric we have enough man power to keep an eye on you. 

Why I said your missiles are stolen or bought from China because only one country in the world have had a compact Ballistic Missiles before making an SLV. Which is not Possible. 
To make Ballistic Missile of Intermediate range with RV you should have good understanding of how satellites are thrown into orbit once that is achieved then the work goes on to develop an RV which is a very very later stage. 

Just Like Iran is doing experiments sending launch vehicles building satellites to develop an ICBM or IRBM or North Korea with T-1. In fact they have launched their satellite. Things work in a system.

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## LeGenD

AhaseebA said:


> The CEP of Pakistani systems is about 200m(for Shaheen 2,Ghauri 2)...which should be decreased for better conventional strikes...


Cruise Missiles are considerably better for conventional roles. We need long range Cruise Missiles.


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## Screambowl

AhaseebA said:


> Brother, Shaheen 2 is of max 2750 km range.....
> And lamINDIA is absolutely right.....therefore we are acquiring upto 3 MIRV capability in the next delivery system...
> The CEP of Pakistani systems is about 200m(for Shaheen 2,Ghauri 2)...which should be decreased for better conventional strikes...



well dude, the Rmax is with complete 1.05 Ton warhead. you reduce the pay load and your Rmax changes.


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## mughaljee

another achievement.


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## The Deterrent

Screambowl said:


> well dude, the Rmax is with complete 1.05 Ton warhead. you reduce the pay load and your Rmax changes.



But there is less benefit of reducing payload...I mean delivering a 500kg payload to 3500km is meaningless...and since 2750 km range covers 90% of Indian territory,there is no need of it...


----------



## The Deterrent

Screambowl said:


> Apart from Nonsense let me enlighten you that the most missiles which failed are experimental missiles which are tested to see new parameters. Be it 100 years old Technology or 60 years or the latest. testing with new equipments is must!! When a missile fails both success climb and failure is noted and thoroughly studied. Plus we are not satisfied with what we have since we have no intentions to be Pakistan Centric we have already overcome that. And if we have to be Pakistani centric we have enough man power to keep an eye on you.
> 
> Why I said your missiles are stolen or bought from China because only one country in the world have had a compact Ballistic Missiles before making an SLV. Which is not Possible.
> To make Ballistic Missile of Intermediate range with RV you should have good understanding of how satellites are thrown into orbit once that is achieved then the work goes on to develop an RV which is a very very later stage.
> 
> Just Like Iran is doing experiments sending launch vehicles building satellites to develop an ICBM or IRBM or North Korea with T-1. In fact they have launched their satellite. Things work in a system.



You are right...achieving this sort of excellence in compact ballistic missile technology in just 10 years (1995-2005) was not possible without tremendous Chinese (and N. Korean) assistance,thus countering India's large conventional arms build-up...


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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> I know many of the Indian arses are on fire after seeing their so many missiles going down the drain, but it doesn't gives you the right to hurl accusations which have no fact behind them.
> 
> Yeah, Chinese must have helped us in making our missiles, but you should do a better job by posting pictures of Chinese missiles & Pakistani ones, their specifications and other stuff to tell us that they are exact copy of Chinese missiles.
> 
> And do remember, i have already thrown out a few of your kind who came charging with the above BS and after they could not prove anything, they were sent packing.
> 
> So either shut your this BS or prove whatever you accuses anyone with it.



Brother,you cannot ignore the facts.....Develop such advanced systems within such a short time interval (1995-2005) is exemplary,and leads us to the conclusion...Foreign Assistance...

After all,not every thing comes up on the internet...

Russians made the Scud....Chines made the M-11 out of it...and Pakistanis modified it to an even better standard...Ghaznavi,which is equipped with terminal guidance system and improvised warhead assembly...

Other missiles are improved versions of the Chinese systems...

I'm not implying that Pakistan did a wrong thing...everybody does it when their lives are at stake..and I'm proud of it...Its just that we should not OVER-ESTIMATE ourselves by saying that we have developed everything by ourselves,and saying that we are developing ICBMs...


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## The Deterrent

Screambowl said:


> Why I said your missiles are stolen or bought from China because only one country in the world have had a compact Ballistic Missiles before making an SLV. Which is not Possible.
> To make Ballistic Missile of Intermediate range with RV you should have good understanding of how satellites are thrown into orbit once that is achieved then the work goes on to develop an RV which is a very very later stage.
> 
> Just Like Iran is doing experiments sending launch vehicles building satellites to develop an ICBM or IRBM or North Korea with T-1. In fact they have launched their satellite. Things work in a system.



Its just that we do not have enough budget for an SLV...


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## The Deterrent

LeGenD said:


> Cruise Missiles are considerably better for conventional roles. We need long range Cruise Missiles.



The problem with sub-sonic Cruise missiles is that they are slow,carry less payload,and can be shot down by SAMs or enemy fighters if detected...


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## LeGenD

AhaseebA said:


> The problem with sub-sonic Cruise missiles is that they are slow,carry less payload,and can be shot down by SAMs or enemy fighters if detected...


Cruise missiles can evade radar detection and are deadly accurate. They are not easy to shoot down either because they can be equipped with counter measures against suppressive fire. 

They can also be armed with nuclear warheads. They can also be equipped with multiple strike mechanisms and not just a single warhead. 

Cruise missiles are a weapon of choice for modern military forces.

See the success level of American Tomahawks vis-a-vis Iraqi Scuds.

Ballistic missiles are good for large ground targets only, since they are less accurate.

Watch this video:

YouTube - BGM-109 Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM)

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## ice_man

one thing i don't understand about indians! 

they claim:

1) PAKISTAN MADE NUCLEAR WEAPONS WITH THE HELP OF CHINA

2) PAKISTAN MADE MISSILES WITH THE HELP OF CHINA!


now reality that the world agrees to is the following:

1) Paksitan "STOLE" the blue prints of a nuclear weapon from AMSTERDAM a famous man called "A.Q. KHAN" brough them to pakistan 

2) Pakistan used a tomahawk missile that by mistake landed in pakistan....reverse engineered it and made its cruise missiles 

3) Pakistan used N.KOREAN help to make its missile systems! 

4) pakistan modifed the Harpoon missiles

*NOW WHERE IN SUCH STATEMENTS DOES THE WORLD MENTION CHINA???? AND YET INDIANS KEEP CRYING AND BRINGING IN CHINA & CHINESE HELP!*


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## The Deterrent

ice_man said:


> *NOW WHERE IN SUCH STATEMENTS DOES THE WORLD MENTION CHINA???? AND YET INDIANS KEEP CRYING AND BRINGING IN CHINA & CHINESE HELP!*




If you are referring me,I'm a patriotic Pakistani...


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## The Deterrent

LeGenD said:


> Cruise missiles can evade radar detection and are deadly accurate. They are not easy to shoot down either because they can be equipped with counter measures against suppressive fire.



I was talking about infra-red homing MANPADS and enemy fighter aircrafts which, may be,are present in the vicinity...


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## The Deterrent

ice_man said:


> 3) Pakistan used N.KOREAN help to make its missile systems!



Only the Ghauri system (liquid fueled) was developed from North Korean No-dong...


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## Developereo

It really doesn't matter if we begged, borrowed or stole foreign designs to make our nukes and missiles.

The point is that we now have the knowledge to enhance them and make our own from scratch. Nobody rediscovers science from basic principles -- we all go to school. It's just that our school happened to be in Beijing.

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## The Deterrent

ice_man said:


> one thing i don't understand about indians!
> 
> they claim:
> 
> 1) PAKISTAN MADE NUCLEAR WEAPONS WITH THE HELP OF CHINA
> 
> 2) PAKISTAN MADE MISSILES WITH THE HELP OF CHINA!
> 
> 
> now reality that the world agrees to is the following:
> 
> 1) Paksitan "STOLE" the blue prints of a nuclear weapon from AMSTERDAM a famous man called "A.Q. KHAN" brough them to pakistan
> 
> 2) Pakistan used a tomahawk missile that by mistake landed in pakistan....reverse engineered it and made its cruise missiles
> 
> 3) Pakistan used N.KOREAN help to make its missile systems!
> 
> 4) pakistan modifed the Harpoon missiles
> 
> *NOW WHERE IN SUCH STATEMENTS DOES THE WORLD MENTION CHINA???? AND YET INDIANS KEEP CRYING AND BRINGING IN CHINA & CHINESE HELP!*



*Here's the answer*
International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Pakistan&#8217;s Long Range Ballistic Missiles: A View From IDEAS

*Pakistan&#8217;s Long Range Ballistic Missiles: A View From IDEAS


by Richard Fisher, Jr.
Published on November 1st, 2004
ARMS SHOW REPORTS
*
With the October 11 test firing of its Ghauri (Hatf 5), the Pakistan Army Strategic Forces Command within about a year has test-launched all of its major ballistic missiles.[1] Although exact production numbers for its major missiles have not been revealed, the latest launch cycle confirms that Pakistan has in place a two-tiered missile force based on short-range (SRBMs) and medium-range ballistic missiles (MRBMs). For Islamabad, its nuclear capable missiles are the ultimate deterrent to its larger and long-feared neighbor India. Pakistan has also used the threat of nuclear attack to deter a conventional Indian attack.[2] Pakistan also enjoys status within the Islamic world for being its only nuclear missile-armed member.

New information on Pakistan&#8217;s missiles came to light recently, during the September 14-17 International Defense Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) in Karachi, the third such arms exhibition. In fact, the Pakistan Army Strategic Forces Command has used the all of the IDEAS shows to display its nuclear capable missiles. This year&#8217;s show, however, was the sole opportunity, given that their appearance had been canceled-on the basis of security concerns-for the usual Republic Day military parade. The solid-fueled Ghaznavi and longer range Shaheen 1 and Shaheen 2 missiles are all widely reported to be based on either Chinese missiles or missile technology. The Ghauri is widely reported to be based on the North Korean liquid-fueled Nodong missile. The Strategic Forces Command did not entertain questions about these missiles, but did offer a video that both summarized previously released missile test footage and provided new information.

*High Accuracy*

One useful new data point was that the Chinese-source missiles were capable of very high accuracy. Published reports have noted that Pakistan&#8217;s Shaheen 1, Shaheen 2 and Ghaznavi missiles may have a post-separation booster system to provide course corrections to improve accuracy, or maneuver capability for evading missile defenses. The video confirmed that there is such a system. It was at the Zhuhai Airshow in 1996 that a Chinese source inadvertently disclosed that China was developing a terminal and satellite-navigation-assisted guidance system for its short- to medium-range missiles. The PLA also developed a post-separation warhead attitude correction system for its DF-15 short-range missile. This consists of small thrusters that can adjust the warhead trajectory for greater accuracy or for out-foxing early U.S. Patriot PAC-2 interceptors. This system very likely is also on the DF-11 Mod 1 SRBM.


Shaheen 2 Warhead Stage: May use a post-separation course correction system that enables very high accuracy. Photo: RD Fisher


If Pakistan&#8217;s missiles are so equipped, the prospect of their not requiring nuclear warheads to achieve "strategic" results against military targets is more likely. While this might be slightly comforting to some, the capability might also increase the temptation to use such missiles, inasmuch as Pakistani leaders might view their use as carrying a diminished risk of Indian nuclear retaliation.


Possible antennae on a Shaheen-1 warhead stage: The black patches near the small stabilizing fins may be antennae intended to service very accurate satellite navigation systems. Photo: RD Fisher

However, such a terminal guidance capability would also require a sophisticated targeting system capable of providing real-time image or electronic target location data to missile commanders. Pakistan will soon have short-range unmanned reconnaissance aircraft capable of supplying such data. Pakistan can be assumed to be a consumer of commercially available high-resolution satellite imagery. And when China soon launches its constellation of 1-meter or better resolution Russian-influenced electro-optical and radar image satellites, it is a safe assumption that Pakistan will gain useful access to their data. The irony here is that Indian space officials have disclosed that China had offered India the opportunity to invest in this satellite constellation.[3] India wisely refused, because its investment might have amounted to a "subsidy" benefiting China&#8217;s and Pakistan&#8217;s missile targeting capabilities.


*China&#8217;s Future HJ-1 and HJ-1C reconnaissance satellites*: These Russian influenced satellites are due to be launched soon, and could provide Pakistan with all-weather 1-meter imagery. India wisely chose not to participate in this program.Photo: RD Fisher

*Warheads*

All of the SRBMs and MRBMs on display at IDEAS were said to be capable of carrying nuclear and non-nuclear warheads. Pakistan&#8217;s capability to build small plutonium warheads is widely reported to have developed thanks to the assistance of the PRC. China is very likely the source for a range of non-nuclear warheads for the Shaheen 2, Shaheen 1 and Ghaznavi missiles. For its DF-11 Mod 1 SRBM, China is reported to have developed high-explosive cluster warheads, which use a large number of small warheads for attacking soft targets, and thermobaric warheads, which destroy by producing fantastic heat and pressure. And according to a U.S. source, Pakistan is a suspected recipient for new Chinese radio-frequency (RF) missile warheads.[4] These can produce a large electromagnetic pulse via a conventional explosion and are used to attack electronic infrastructure.

*Shaheen 2.* Pakistan&#8217;s largest and most capable ballistic missile is the two-stage Shaheen 2, or Hatf 6, reported by the U.S. intelligence community to have been developed with China&#8217;s assistance. To date, this missile has no publicly identified counterpart in the Chinese missile arsenal, but one possibility might be the DF-25, a reported two-stage 1,700-2,500km range solid-fuel missile. Revealed during the 2000 Republic Day parade, it was not launched for the first time until March 9, 2004. Before that it had been displayed with two sets of guidance fins for each stage. But the missile tested in March, and the one displayed at IDEAS, had no fins at the second stage. Pakistani placards stated its range is 2,000km, but other sources note that this might be extended to 2,500km with a lighter warhead.[5] While published sources give this missile an accuracy measured in circular error probability (CEP) of 350m,[6] a Pakistani video claims it is capable of "surgical precision." This may indicate that it incorporates a warhead post-separation correction system and/or a satellite navigation update system, which may indicate a CEP of much less than 300m. Reports also indicate there may be a 4,000km range Shaheen 3 in development that would also serve as a space launch vehicle.[7]



Shaheen 2


Range:

2000km
Weight:

15,000kg
Re-entry vehicle Weight:

1,000kg
Warheads:

Nuclear, HE
Tech Source:

China



Photo: RD Fisher


*
Shaheen 1.* First revealed in 1999, the Shaheen 1, or Hatf 4, also has no known Chinese equivalent, but its Chinese origins are more apparent than the Shaheen 2. The nose section is very clearly a copy of that seen on the Chinese DF-11 Mod 1 missile first revealed in their October 1999 military parade. But the Shaheen 1 is longer and, at 750km, has a longer range than the 300-500km of the Chinese missile. The warhead stage has what a Pakistani video calls a "post-separation attitude correction system," meaning that the Shaheen-1 is capable of high accuracy and some degree of maneuvering to evade missile defenses. In addition, both the Shaheen I and its relation, the Ghaznavi, employ stealthy warhead shaping to delay detection and complicate targeting.



Shaheen 1


Range:

750km
Weight:

9,500kg
Warhead Weight:

850kg
Warheads:

Nuclear, HE
Tech Source:

China



Photo: RD Fisher



*Ghaznavi.* The latest Pakistani missile is the Ghaznavi, or Hatf 3, which was formally adopted by the Strategic Forces Command on February 22, 2004. This appears to be an exact copy of the latest version of the DF-11 Mod 1. Like more recent versions of the Chinese missile, the Ghaznavi employs an "aerospike" on the tip of the nose cone. This serves to push away air, creating less aerodynamic drag for the remainder of the missile, and is useful for extending the range of the missile if it employed a "depressed trajectory" or low altitude flight profile, where denser air would create more drag. It is also suspected of using a "depressed trajectory" to evade missile defenses. A Pakistani video also notes that this missile uses a "post-separation attitude correction system" to ensure accuracy. It also features flat antenna arrays near the warhead stage, all indications that it uses highly accurate satellite navigation assisted guidance systems. And, like the DF-11 Mod 1, the Ghaznavi very likely uses a range of warheads, including nuclear, high explosives, cluster munitions, thermobaric and RF.


Ghaznavi


Range:

290km
Weight:

5,256kg
Warheads:

Nuclear, HE, Cluster, Thermobaric, Radio Frequency
Tech Source:

China



Photo: RD Fisher

*
Ghauri 2*. Also on display was the Ghauri, or Hatf 5, widely reported to be based on North Korea&#8217;s Nodong liquid fueled missile. It has a range of 1,500km that it can cover in about 10 minutes. It is said to be armed with nuclear and high explosive warheads. But, being liquid fueled, it does not have the rapid response capability of solid-fueled missiles. The need to spend considerable time fueling Ghauri makes it vulnerable. There are reports of a Ghauri 3 in development, a two-stage liquid fuel missile with a range of 3,500km.[8] This program may benefit from North Korea&#8217;s Russian technology derived Makeyev R-27-based MRBMs.

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## The Deterrent

Developereo said:


> It really doesn't matter if we begged, borrowed or stole foreign designs to make our nukes and missiles.
> 
> The point is that we now have the knowledge to enhance them and make our own from scratch. Nobody rediscovers science from basic principles -- we all go to school. It's just that our school happened to be in Beijing.



Now that is what I'm talking about.....brilliant expression from Developereo...thank you.


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## monitor

Developereo said:


> It really doesn't matter if we begged, borrowed or stole foreign designs to make our nukes and missiles.
> 
> The point is that we now have the knowledge to enhance them and make our own from scratch. Nobody rediscovers science from basic principles -- we all go to school. It's just that our school happened to be in Beijing.



Every thing is justified in war and love .

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## monitor

LeGenD said:


> Cruise Missiles are considerably better for conventional roles. We need long range Cruise Missiles.



Yes increase babur range launching platform like this -


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## The Deterrent

monitor said:


> Yes increase babur range launching platform like this -



Babur already has launchers similar to these...what's your point?


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## TaimiKhan

Red Dwarf said:


> I have one basic question. Why Pakistan don't have a parallel satellite rocket launching system ?. Almost all countries who possess a ballistic missile have some type of satellite launching system too. Even Iran and North Korea has one.
> 
> I don't understand why Pakistan still can't create a satellite launching system even after dealing with missile technologies for more than 2 decades.



Becoz we are extremely short of finances and can't give any attention to the space related programs. Primary concern is to have a nuke delivery system in place and make it as much better as we can. 

We don't make satellites and nor have we the potential to launch satellites of others in such tight & already dominated market, and i can assure you, we would not have gotten any business too from other countries as there is no selling skills with us and the strategic value with others. 

The day, we start having enough money, you will see a space program too, but our planners lack the vision and neglected the space program, evident from the number of satellites we have leaving aside having any launching capability. 

Take the example of Britain, do they have their own ballistic missiles even though they have the infrastructure to develop had they wanted, or look at their own space launching capability or the past endeavors in this field. Read up about the British and may be you can have an idea that even if you can do something, its not feasible or due to certain reasons you just can't jump everywhere. 

By the way, good attempt at a cheap shot, but you need a better understanding how such strategic decisions are done.

Let me help you, read about the British Black Arrow program, may be you get an understanding.

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## TaimiKhan

Screambowl said:


> Apart from Nonsense let me enlighten you that the most missiles which failed are experimental missiles which are tested to see new parameters. Be it 100 years old Technology or 60 years or the latest. testing with new equipments is must!! When a missile fails both success climb and failure is noted and thoroughly studied. Plus we are not satisfied with what we have since we have no intentions to be Pakistan Centric we have already overcome that. And if we have to be Pakistani centric we have enough man power to keep an eye on you.



Good rubbish and nonsense to cover up the blunders, but thanks for the effort, we already know what fails when and how many times. Keep the nonsense BS to Indian audience to satisfy the egos. 

And i believe we are not discussing about who is being how much centric about whom. We all know the answer to that. 



> Why I said your missiles are stolen or bought from China because only one country in the world have had a compact Ballistic Missiles before making an SLV. Which is not Possible.
> To make Ballistic Missile of Intermediate range with RV you should have good understanding of how satellites are thrown into orbit once that is achieved then the work goes on to develop an RV which is a very very later stage.



Just Like Iran is doing experiments sending launch vehicles building satellites to develop an ICBM or IRBM or North Korea with T-1. In fact they have launched their satellite. Things work in a system.[/QUOTE]

Well i am not sure that what you meant by the above two paras, but if am right you meant to say that for ICBM you need to know the know how of warhead separation from the main body of the missile, as either in ICBM or IRBM there is reentry of warhead after separation from the main body, and that know how can be used in making SLV, for separation of satellites. 

If am correct with what you meant, then let me notify you, that Pakistan does know the know how of warhead separation and uses warhead separation as well as post separation correction system in its warheads, thus if it wants, it can easily make an IRBM or ICBM as it has no problems in warhead separation or RV sections of missiles and when & if Pakistan wants to go for SLV, it can easily do that, provided we have the money to research and carry on such expensive program, but its hard for us to spare money for such things right now.

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## TaimiKhan

AhaseebA said:


> Brother,you cannot ignore the facts.....Develop such advanced systems within such a short time interval (1995-2005) is exemplary,and leads us to the conclusion...Foreign Assistance...
> 
> After all,not every thing comes up on the internet...
> 
> Russians made the Scud....Chines made the M-11 out of it...and Pakistanis modified it to an even better standard...Ghaznavi,which is equipped with terminal guidance system and improvised warhead assembly...
> 
> Other missiles are improved versions of the Chinese systems...
> 
> I'm not implying that Pakistan did a wrong thing...everybody does it when their lives are at stake..and I'm proud of it...Its just that we should not OVER-ESTIMATE ourselves by saying that we have developed everything by ourselves,and saying that we are developing ICBMs...



First of all, we like others don't deny the fact that we got assistance from China, its a fact nor am I challenging that. 

Issue is just like how you are towing the Indian members line, that each missile we have is a copy or taken from the Chinese or North Koreans. That is your as well as others misconception and sheer stupidity i must say. 

We got the tech from them, the know how and assistance, but after that, we are now doing our own research and making our own missiles. Examples are Babur, Ra'ad or you can even check out the earlier Shaheen II and current Shaheen II missiles, which can clearly tell that we are making our own missiles based on our research and are not exact copies of Chinese tech or given by the Chinese. 

Here compare these two Shaeen II missiles and see the difference yourself. 











Saw any difference ?? Does that not tell you that we are doing our own research and making missiles as we deem fit after we got the initial know how about missiles from the Chinese ??? Hope you are not that blind as our neighbors are. 

Here let me give you another example, look at the earlier Shaheen 1 missile and compared it to the latest picture from the latest test of Shaheen 1 missile, look at the top of the missile, the warhead section and hopefully you can see the difference between the shapes. 

Earlier Shaheen 1:






And the latest pic of the Shaheen 1 (enlarge to see it clearly):







I hope the above examples as well as the Babur and Ra'ad CMs are more then enough to tell you and shut the mouths of some others that we are making our own missiles, through our own research, after having gotten the tech and know how from the Chinese. 

Still if someone has an issue, God help him or should i say gods help them to understand as hatred is something which makes you not see the reality.

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## Sinnerman108

Taimi ....

Ghussa nahi karte ....

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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> We got the tech from them, the know how and assistance, but after that, we are now doing our own research and making our own missiles. Examples are Babur, Ra'ad or you can even check out the earlier Shaheen II and current Shaheen II missiles, which can clearly tell that we are making our own missiles based on our research and are not exact copies of Chinese tech or given by the Chinese.



Brother,thats exactly what I'm trying to say....(may be I'm poor at the selection of words).....

I haven't mentioned anywhere that Pakistan merely copied Chinese systems...we improve them...

To copy another thing is not a great job,but to improve its qualities is the best thing...thats what we do as I have mentioned...we get few delicate parts,manufacture most of are own,utilize experience of other countries and bring out a successful weapon.....

This is the main reason why 90&#37; of our missile tests do not fail...

Babur was reverse engineered from Tomahawk...and after repeated failures it was a success...Ra'ad is the smaller aerial version of Babur without booster motor and low-drag producing avionics...


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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> Here compare these two Shaeen II missiles and see the difference yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saw any difference ?? Does that not tell you that we are doing our own research and making missiles as we deem fit after we got the initial know how about missiles from the Chinese ??? Hope you are not that blind as our neighbors are.



The missiles at display on 23rd March are dummies...I'm just clarifying...


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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> I hope the above examples as well as the Babur and Ra'ad CMs are more then enough to tell you and shut the mouths of some others that we are making our own missiles, through our own research, after having gotten the tech and know how from the Chinese.
> 
> Still if someone has an issue, God help him or should i say gods help them to understand as hatred is something which makes you not see the reality.



Sir,"own" research takes a lot of time...which we didn't have.....but the missiles are our very own.....

And thank you for the good wishes for me...


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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> Here let me give you another example, look at the earlier Shaheen 1 missile and compared it to the latest picture from the latest test of Shaheen 1 missile, look at the top of the missile, the warhead section and hopefully you can see the difference between the shapes.
> 
> Earlier Shaheen 1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the latest pic of the Shaheen 1 (enlarge to see it clearly):



Thank you for that....I hadn't noticed it...


----------



## unicorn148

TaimiKhan said:


> Becoz we are extremely short of finances and can't give any attention to the space related programs. Primary concern is to have a nuke delivery system in place and make it as much better as we can.
> 
> We don't make satellites and nor have we the potential to launch satellites of others in such tight & already dominated market, and i can assure you, we would not have gotten any business too from other countries as there is no selling skills with us and the strategic value with others.
> 
> The day, we start having enough money, you will see a space program too, but our planners lack the vision and neglected the space program, evident from the number of satellites we have leaving aside having any launching capability.
> 
> Take the example of Britain, do they have their own ballistic missiles even though they have the infrastructure to develop had they wanted, or look at their own space launching capability or the past endeavors in this field. Read up about the British and may be you can have an idea that even if you can do something, its not feasible or due to certain reasons you just can't jump everywhere.
> 
> By the way, good attempt at a cheap shot, but you need a better understanding how such strategic decisions are done.
> 
> Let me help you, read about the British Black Arrow program, may be you get an understanding.



You can just say lack of funds because at this time Pakistan doesnt require a ICBM but they are going after it and spending a lot in it. If these funds are utilized by SUPARCO they might have at least built a SLV by now
Briton is a member of ESA so they do not require a separate space program


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## khurasaan1

AhaseebA said:


> We haven't tested it yet...



I guess he mean cold test... ..not hot test..


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## Parashuram1

And what would be the point of increasing the range of your missiles when your regional adversary (the Indians) is already covered with your current arsenal? Do you have any adversary 7,000 Km away?


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## Sinnerman108

Parashuram1 said:


> And what would be the point of increasing the range of your missiles when your regional adversary (the Indians) is already covered with your current arsenal? Do you have any adversary 7,000 Km away?



May be, may be not ...

Lets put it this way .. it is best to have the capability once you're on a roll ....

As for 7000 km thing .. lets say we like to play ransom

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## The Deterrent

Parashuram1 said:


> And what would be the point of increasing the range of your missiles when your regional adversary (the Indians) is already covered with your current arsenal? Do you have any adversary 7,000 Km away?



That is my point too.....therefore we can conclude that there is nothing as a a Pakistani ICBM (taimur/tipu) under development...you are absolutely right...


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## The Deterrent

khurasaan1 said:


> I guess he mean cold test... ..not hot test..



What do you mean?...cold test of what?


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## Screambowl

TaimiKhan said:


> Good rubbish and nonsense to cover up the blunders, but thanks for the effort, we already know what fails when and how many times. Keep the nonsense BS to Indian audience to satisfy the egos.
> 
> And i believe we are not discussing about who is being how much centric about whom. We all know the answer to that.



There is no need to shy or hide any Blunder. I said they fail because they are experimental Missile, no one is denying the fact that they fail after all we have crossed the threshold. How many experimental missiles did Pakistan launch?? Don't tell me you don't have money to do experiments now. 




TaimiKhan said:


> Just Like Iran is doing experiments sending launch vehicles building satellites to develop an ICBM or IRBM or North Korea with T-1. In fact they have launched their satellite. Things work in a system.
> 
> Well i am not sure that what you meant by the above two paras, but if am right you meant to say that for ICBM you need to know the know how of warhead separation from the main body of the missile, as either in ICBM or IRBM there is reentry of warhead after separation from the main body, and that know how can be used in making SLV, for separation of satellites.
> 
> If am correct with what you meant, then let me notify you, that Pakistan does know the know how of warhead separation and uses warhead separation as well as post separation correction system in its warheads, thus if it wants, it can easily make an IRBM or ICBM as it has no problems in warhead separation or RV sections of missiles and when & if Pakistan wants to go for SLV, it can easily do that, provided we have the money to research and carry on such expensive program, but its hard for us to spare money for such things right now.



That's what I am saying. Every country is going through a system of development. Except you! I just do not understand. Pakistan never had a SLV how did they manage to compact a Missile without doing experiments on prototypes, without throwing dummies into the orbit. Without carrying out experiments with Mass to Range to Stability of the warhead or RV. you theoretically developed one of the best missiles on papers gave them structure and launched it. When you did not have money for SLV and experiements and development of this industry, how you supposed to have a missile program at all. 
wow!


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## TaimiKhan

Screambowl said:


> There is no need to shy or hide any Blunder. I said they fail because they are experimental Missile, no one is denying the fact that they fail after all we have crossed the threshold. How many experimental missiles did Pakistan launch?? Don't tell me you don't have money to do experiments now.



Hadn't we any money, you would not have been seeing the different versions of the missiles coming out after modification done to them. We don't like to reinvent the wheel, nor are our ambitions to target far flung areas for now, thus we are not going for super duper missiles, for now. We have been doing tests and we even had failures, but since our defence establishment is tight lipped thus we don't know much about their failure rate, but getting the tech from others was the main reason to have reliable tech with us as we could not afford the testing and prototypes thingy due to cost factor. 





> That's what I am saying. Every country is going through a system of development. Except you! I just do not understand. Pakistan never had a SLV how did they manage to compact a Missile without doing experiments on prototypes, without throwing dummies into the orbit. Without carrying out experiments with Mass to Range to Stability of the warhead or RV. you theoretically developed one of the best missiles on papers gave them structure and launched it. When you did not have money for SLV and experiements and development of this industry, how you supposed to have a missile program at all.
> wow!



As said before, our missile program is a joint venture, we got tech and assistance from the Chinese, thus its clear that they helped us out in lot of stuff with respect to missiles and their tech and after what we learned from them, we started to put it in our developed platforms. For making ballistic missiles, you don't need to make an SLV first. Ballistic missiles with separating warheads is more easier tech compared to launching satellites, so am still at loss of words to fully understand what is your point from the above para. 

Keep  may be you could next time in better words explain your point. 

By the way, did Ballistic missiles came first or SLVs ?? Query it, it may give you an idea to what you are saying.

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## TaimiKhan

salman108 said:


> Taimi ....
> 
> Ghussa nahi karte ....



Yaar, her cheez ki aik intehaaa hoti hai.

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## TaimiKhan

AhaseebA said:


> Brother,thats exactly what I'm trying to say....(may be I'm poor at the selection of words).....
> 
> I haven't mentioned anywhere that Pakistan merely copied Chinese systems...we improve them...
> 
> To copy another thing is not a great job,but to improve its qualities is the best thing...thats what we do as I have mentioned...we get few delicate parts,manufacture most of are own,utilize experience of other countries and bring out a successful weapon.....
> 
> This is the main reason why 90% of our missile tests do not fail...
> 
> *Babur was reverse engineered from Tomahawk...and after repeated failures it was a success...Ra'ad is the smaller aerial version of Babur without booster motor and low-drag producing avionics...*



Reinventing the wheel is stupidity. 

Plus, you seriously need to look at Babur & Ra'ad designs and their specifications, may be it can give you an idea that both are different designs with different specifications. 

Both missiles origin is also different, babur may have gotten influenced by Tomahawk, but Ra'ad is from something else.

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## Screambowl

TaimiKhan said:


> Hadn't we any money, you would not have been seeing the different versions of the missiles coming out after modification done to them. We don't like to reinvent the wheel, nor are our ambitions to target far flung areas for now, thus we are not going for super duper missiles, for now. We have been doing tests and we even had failures, but since our defence establishment is tight lipped thus we don't know much about their failure rate, but getting the tech from others was the main reason to have reliable tech with us as we could not afford the testing and prototypes thingy due to cost factor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As said before, our missile program is a joint venture, we got tech and assistance from the Chinese, thus its clear that they helped us out in lot of stuff with respect to missiles and their tech and after what we learned from them, we started to put it in our developed platforms. For making ballistic missiles, you don't need to make an SLV first. Ballistic missiles with separating warheads is more easier tech compared to launching satellites, so am still at loss of words to fully understand what is your point from the above para.
> 
> Keep  may be you could next time in better words explain your point.



my only point is,how come Pakistan has ability to make an RV put it in an orbit and guide it during re-entry phase without actually knowing the ballistics. Because we never heard from you, developing your own rocket launching it with a dummy projectile or some related programs. How come you achieved so sophisticated technology without carrying out any experiments on your own. How come you had a knowledge of stage separation or RV separation and sub-orbitals and orbital altitudes with CEP of just 30 meters with such a compact rocket assembly. 




TaimiKhan said:


> By the way, did Ballistic missiles came first or SLVs ?? Query it, it may give you an idea to what you are saying.



if your are talking about a stage separation ballistic missiles with sub-orbital trajectory and RV then SLV's came first.


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## TaimiKhan

unicorn148 said:


> You can just say lack of funds because at this time Pakistan doesnt require a ICBM but they are going after it and spending a lot in it. If these funds are utilized by SUPARCO they might have at least built a SLV by now
> Briton is a member of ESA so they do not require a separate space program



ICBM reports have been coming for years now, but there is no official policy or statement on it, thus all we can do best is speculate. 

My own take is, ICBM is far away for now, range of upcoming missiles may increase, but MIRVs plus some ABM evading tech would be for now primary option. 

I won't be discussing about ICBMs as personally i have not heard anything with that regard. 

ESA came into existence in 1975, and UK joined it in 1980, thus what was UK doing before 1980 and as i said before, plz read about the Black Arrow program of UKs.


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## TaimiKhan

Screambowl said:


> my only point is,how come Pakistan has ability to make an RV put it in an orbit and guide it during re-entry phase without actually knowing the ballistics. Because we never heard from you, developing your own rocket launching it with a dummy projectile or some related programs. How come you achieved so sophisticated technology without carrying out any experiments on your own. How come you had a knowledge of stage separation or RV separation and sub-orbitals and orbital altitudes with CEP of just 30 meters with such a compact rocket assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if your are talking about a stage separation ballistic missiles with sub-orbital trajectory and RV then SLV's came first.



Ain't i taking the name of China again and again who has helped us in this missile tech. 

Thus what is so hard to understand by now ?? 

I am saying from the start its not a 100% indigenous program, we are not stupid enough to reinvent the wheel and spend billions, we got the tech from someone and started to work on it to improve the new variants and new ones.

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## TaimiKhan

Parashuram1 said:


> And what would be the point of increasing the range of your missiles when your regional adversary (the Indians) is already covered with your current arsenal? Do you have any adversary 7,000 Km away?



Israel should be asked the same question that who they have to target with their Jericho II / III missiles when their adversaries are within a few hundred miles of them. 

May be, we don't have an enemy today, but who knows about the future ?? 

Thus isn't it good to reduce the risk and at a slow pace do research in making a longer range missile as no one is sure of the future.


----------



## DV RULES

Missiles must be ready for any distance and any kind of threat.


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## lapinschous1

icbms are useless with the rapier....


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## DESERT FIGHTER

lapinschous1 said:


> icbms are useless with the rapier....



The britist rapier missile tht entered service in 71?I dont think so.


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## lapinschous1

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> The britist rapier missile tht entered service in 71?I dont think so.



I meant the latest Jernas, sorry.


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## monitor

AhaseebA said:


> Babur already has launchers similar to these...what's your point?



oh sorry i forgot it already has it.


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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> Reinventing the wheel is stupidity.
> 
> Plus, you seriously need to look at Babur & Ra'ad designs and their specifications, may be it can give you an idea that both are different designs with different specifications.
> 
> Both missiles origin is also different, babur may have gotten influenced by Tomahawk, but Ra'ad is from something else.



Sir,the Ra'ad differs from Babur only in shape...to reduce the air drag for the aircraft which carries it...the length is shorter so that it can be conveniently attached to the central weapons station,and therefore it has shorter range due to less fuel capacity.....

Of course the Americans have perfected the Tomahawk design...and our Babur is simpler than it...

The difference is that Babur is launched from a tilted angle,the booster motor cannot vector, there are 4 tail fins, and it cannot carry multiple munitions...(I think there are more differences )

We didn't have the Tomahawk in intact form to make an exact copy...we had to make most of the things based on our own designs (booster motor for instance)..

I hope you are getting my point...

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## The Deterrent

Screambowl said:


> How many experimental missiles did Pakistan launch??



Only ONE...I'm sorry I cannot disclose the name.....now please don't laugh at me (for Pakistanis)...


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## The Deterrent

Screambowl said:


> Don't tell me you don't have money to do experiments now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course we don't have the money for experiments...
Click to expand...


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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> Both missiles origin is also different, babur may have gotten influenced by Tomahawk, but Ra'ad is from something else.



Additionally, Babur is developed entirely by NESCOM.....
The avionics of Ra'ad is made by AWC...the rest by NESCOM...


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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> We got the tech from them, the know how and assistance, but after that, we are now doing our own research and making our own missiles. Examples are Babur, Ra'ad or you can even check out the earlier Shaheen II and current Shaheen II missiles, which can clearly tell that we are making our own missiles based on our research and are not exact copies of Chinese tech or given by the Chinese.



Just for your information, Ghaznavi has been modified by introducing an aero-spike on the warhead which reduces drag and increases range...


----------



## Screambowl

........


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## The Deterrent

Screambowl said:


> ........



Hehehe.....


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## lapinschous1

monitor said:


> oh sorry i forgot it already has it.



WAS IST DAS?


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## LeGenD

AhaseebA said:


> I was talking about infra-red homing MANPADS and enemy fighter aircrafts which, may be,are present in the vicinity...


*Countermeasures* can take care of ground based fire. In addition, advanced cruise missiles are preferably made of _very strong external materials_, so they can survive some hits too. 

I am talking about Tomahawk class missiles here, so not every cruise missile would be as advanced. Anyways! We should know what the best ones care capable of.

Read this:



> Tomahawk is an all-weather submarine or ship-launched land-attack cruise missile. After launch, a solid propellant propels the missile until a small turbofan engine takes over for the cruise portion of flight. Tomahawk is a highly survivable weapon. Radar detection is difficult because of the missile's small cross-section, low altitude flight. Similarly, infrared detection is difficult because the turbofan engine emits little heat. Systems include Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver; an upgrade of the optical Digital Scene Matching Area Correlation (DSMAC) system; Time of Arrival (TOA) control, and improved 402 turbo engines.


Source: BGM-109 Tomahawk - Smart Weapons

As far as threat from fighter jets is concerned; Unless a cruise missile is picked up by a radar system (chances are very low), this threat is of little concern.

India was more shocked by our capability to develop cruise missiles, than it was from our ballistic missiles. Indians understood that Pakistan finally acquired the capability to make precision strikes on its military assets.

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## The Deterrent

I got your point...


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

11, 416 KM is form Pakistan to USA , and we should concentrate to have this ICBM constructed 

If Iseal can be working on Jericho then we should also have ability to build ICBM based on our national security , if drone operators are sitting in USA then we need to shut these down in USA

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## I M Sikander

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> 11, 416 KM is form Pakistan to USA , and we should concentrate to have this ICBM constructed


hahah you must be kidding dude. Hitting USA with an ICBM. 
USA is too far away from Pakistan. an ICBM travelling such a long distance will be tracked very easily and shot down. USA has the best Anti ballistic missiles system, with complete blanket cover for whole USA.

A complete network of satellites covers whole US, to detect and destroy any missile coming towards US in addition to their on ground ABM system.



> we should also have ability to build ICBM based on our national security , if drone operators are sitting in USA then we need to shut these down in USA


Rehnay do yaar. 

*Its all about guts.* Iranians have destroyed and captured many US drones, because they have the will and guts to do so. 
And by the way, Y target the USA with an ICBM when the drones are flying from neighboring Afghanistan.


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## Peaceful Civilian

Ranasikander said:


> hahah you must be kidding dude. Hitting USA with an ICBM.
> USA is too far away from Pakistan. an ICBM travelling such a long distance will be tracked very easily and shot down. USA has the best Anti ballistic missiles system, with complete blanket cover for whole USA.
> 
> A complete network of satellites covers whole US, to detect and destroy any missile coming towards US in addition to their on ground ABM system.
> 
> 
> Rehnay do yaar.
> 
> *Its all about guts.* Iranians have destroyed and captured many US drones, because they have the will and guts to do so.
> And by the way, Y target the USA with an ICBM when the drones are flying from neighboring Afghanistan.



I think We don't need ICBM. We need nuclear powered submarine which is very worth than the ICBM. Also very worth in Spy role and can reach its destination undetected.
Or alternate is
We make ICCM( Intercontinental Cruise Missile ) Instead of ICBM(Intercontinental Ballistic Missile)


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## lem34

ICBM are probably a bit beyond us at the moment although it would be nice to have sufficient for deterrence with America, In the mean time we should have sufficient nukes to flatten completely India and Israel. Just remember American foreign policy is made by AIPAC whose HQ is Tel Aviv. Also we should have some spare to hit American bases.


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## prabhakar

Aryan_B said:


> ICBM are probably a bit beyond us at the moment although it would be nice to have sufficient for deterrence with America, In the mean time we should have sufficient nukes to flatten completely India and Israel. Just remember American foreign policy is made by AIPAC whose HQ is Tel Aviv. Also we should have some spare to hit American bases.



offtopic... but are you suffering from "too much" of Zaid hamid's syndrome

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## HANI

prabhakar said:


> offtopic... but are you suffering from "too much" of Zaid hamid's syndrome



ok we got ur off topic point now go and treat ur bharat varma disease ok  
no need to spoil the topic


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## jamal18

Aryan_B said:


> ICBM are probably a bit beyond us at the moment although it would be nice to have sufficient for deterrence with America, In the mean time we should have sufficient nukes to flatten completely India and Israel. Just remember American foreign policy is made by AIPAC whose HQ is Tel Aviv. Also we should have some spare to hit American bases.



No desire to flatten India, but everything else is about right.

Threatening rather than doing.


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## lem34

jamal18 said:


> No desire to flatten India, but everything else is about right.
> 
> Threatening rather than doing.



No mate I meant purely for deterrent or to to discourage American/Israeli/Indian adventurism

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

A missile that can reach 11,000KM is need of time to protect national interest

When nations do this "Takaluf" ok Sir we will not build something more then 2400 km distance we are really risking our national security it allows nations like USA , yes its good to name nations by their name U S A , they run drones on our country and then they blackmail you with their long range missiles and weapons

I think Pakistan has to have a strategy to protect not only against India but all enemies and at present enemy #1 is USA due to their illegal actions on our territories

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## T-Rex

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> A missile that can reach 11,000KM is need of time to protect national interest



*It's too late now, Pakistan should have done it long time ago.*


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## saiyan0321

i think they r a fine step ofcourse we cant magically make a missile of 11000 km but then again our army doesnt reveal much... right now if we tested an icbm of 6000 or 8000 range like the tipu project then we will surely face sanctions as eu and usa will be threatened by just that range and will pressure us alot to give it up

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------




> It's too late now, Pakistan should have done it long time ago.



two quotes 
1. its never too late
2. better late then never

i say go for it do some tests too to bring back the patriotism

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Although one should wait until the missile has been tested; but I was waiting for this for a long time.... Really looking forward towards it...


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## OrionHunter

Aeronaut said:


> *It will allow us to strike targets on long ranges.*


Hey! That one's flying over India!  It would be an airspace violation!! You think you'd get permission for doing that? Jeeez!


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## alimobin memon

IT WILL FLY ALMOST 150000 FT ABOVE YOUR AIR SPACE kIDDO FIRST THINK THAN WRITE JUST STARTED LAUGHING FOR NO 
REASON

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

One should not see it just as a nuclear warhead. We can use conventional warhead with this delivery system which we can use to counter any threat from the sea...


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## iamtheman

And I heard arab countries have refused to supply oil to Pakistan on long-term credit despite the request from Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani to Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz to either restore free oil facility or extend the credit term for oil payment from the existing 30 days to one-year only because pakistan do not have enough money to pay.And you still dreams about ICBM


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## seethru

alimobin memon said:


> IT WILL FLY ALMOST 150000 FT ABOVE YOUR AIR SPACE kIDDO FIRST THINK THAN WRITE JUST STARTED LAUGHING FOR NO
> REASON



why do you guys need an ICBM anyway?


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

seethru said:


> why do you guys need an ICBM anyway?



to deal with cross-border security threat...

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## iamtheman

LEGENDARY WARRIOR said:


> to deal with cross-border security threat...


ICBM is not a chinese toy that you can just buy from yiwu market......Its an Inter continental ballastic missile that only big powers need inorder to protect their economical and strategic interests......To deal with cross boarder security u just need small-mid range missiles that you have in your current arsenal


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## nalandapride

Anyway how much time Pakistan will need to get an ICBM. Their SUPARCO could not develop a Satellite Launch Vehicle even in 50 Years, trying hard to upgrade Shaheen into SLV but still failed. So, it is unlikely Pakistan will ever have an ICBM in next 30-40 Years.


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## seethru

LEGENDARY WARRIOR said:


> to deal with cross-border security threat...



You don't have any. You have borders with 4 countries : Iran, Afghanistan, China and India.

To deal with Afghanistan and Iran, you don't need ICBMs . Besides Iran has no issues with you and Afghanistan isn't capable. 

China : your next Big Daddy. some say already.

That Leaves India. 
1. India seeks no Land that you control now. so, there's clearly no threat.
2.You already have capabilities to deliver nuclear war heads to all targets in India. 
3. You are forgetting Your deterrent , the 'Muslim BOMB'. No possibility of war.


Either you are serving as a proxy to china's interests here or simply have too much money to spend on ICBMs. 
Only one of the above is true.

Am i being naive here?


----------



## Emmie

nalandapride said:


> Anyway how much time Pakistan will need to get an ICBM. Their SUPARCO could not develop a Satellite Launch Vehicle even in 50 Years, trying hard to upgrade Shaheen into SLV but still failed. So, it is unlikely Pakistan will ever have an ICBM in next 30-40 Years.



Lol! Show me what you got?


----------



## nalandapride

Emmie said:


> Lol! Show me what you got?



Question not understood. Please elaborate the question.


----------



## KRAIT

AUz said:


> And thats what *You guys* think
> 
> Actually we want to hit you from 'Western Side' means by going around the world...After all we are India centric



Around the world... Nice one


----------



## Emmie

nalandapride said:


> Question not understood. Please elaborate the question.



Whats so hard there to infer ? Question was as simple as 2+2=4.

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

iamtheman said:


> ICBM is not a chinese toy that you can just buy from yiwu market......Its an Inter continental ballastic missile that only big powers need inorder to protect their economical and strategic interests......To deal with cross boarder security u just need small-mid range missiles that you have in your current arsenal



I did not want to say it over here but you should be smart enough to recognize that we need it as a security measure from western powers...

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## nalandapride

Emmie said:


> Whats so hard there to infer ? Question was as simple as 2+2=4.


2+2= 4 , 2+3=5 but what were you asking, I can't get your question???


----------



## Leonard

seethru said:


> You don't have any. You have borders with 4 countries : Iran, Afghanistan, China and India.
> 
> To deal with Afghanistan and Iran, you don't need ICBMs . Besides Iran has no issues with you and Afghanistan isn't capable.
> 
> China : your next Big Daddy. some say already.
> 
> That Leaves India.
> 1. India seeks no Land that you control now. so, there's clearly no threat.
> 2.You already have capabilities to deliver nuclear war heads to all targets in India.
> 3. You are forgetting Your deterrent , the 'Muslim BOMB'. No possibility of war.
> 
> 
> Either you are serving as a proxy to china's interests here or simply have too much money to spend on ICBMs.
> Only one of the above is true.
> 
> Am i being naive here?


 Ok! now also elobrate our relations with countries other then neighbours which country voilates our air spaces and threatens our national security and then suggest why do we need ICBM's.
Lets see how much you are capable to do full scale analysis.

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## Emmie

nalandapride said:


> 2+2= 4 , 2+3=5 but what were you asking, I can't get your question???



2+2=5, hey thats not simple, is it? I asked about one that yields 4 and not 5. I know you can't answer my question so lets stop being smarty-pants..

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

seethru said:


> You don't have any. You have borders with 4 countries : Iran, Afghanistan, China and India.
> 
> To deal with Afghanistan and Iran, you don't need ICBMs . Besides Iran has no issues with you and Afghanistan isn't capable.



Thank you for recognizing that.




seethru said:


> China : your next Big Daddy. some say already.



Please mind that language. Since you are still new here, I would like to tell you that factual arguing will be appreciated.




seethru said:


> That Leaves India.
> 1. India seeks no Land that you control now. so, there's clearly no threat.
> 2.You already have capabilities to deliver nuclear war heads to all targets in India.
> 3. You are forgetting Your deterrent , the 'Muslim BOMB'. No possibility of war.
> 
> 
> Either you are serving as a proxy to china's interests here or simply have too much money to spend on ICBMs.
> Only one of the above is true.
> 
> Am i being naive here?




None of your reasons are valid. Although, the ICBM has not yet been tested, but we do need it to deal with western powers who like to push their weight around. Don't just see it as a nuclear arsenal. It is more useful as a conventional warhead to take down security threats from oceans...

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## saiyan0321

> India seeks no Land that you control now. so, there's clearly no threat.



what happened to pak administered kashmir PP gave up the claim

we need icbms to secure our selves from threats around the globe!!!
and what does india have in it they are already covered its not like any part of india is not covered by shaheen 2 it is us and eu that should be worried why do you care we make a missile to reach australia or us


----------



## nalandapride

Emmie said:


> 2+2=5, hey thats not simple, is it? I asked about one that yields 4 and not 5. I know you can't answer my question so lets stop being smarty-pants..


i said 2+3=5. please stop trolling and tell me what you really asked about my question.


----------



## seethru

saiyan0321 said:


> what happened to pak administered kashmir PP gave up the claim
> 
> we need icbms to secure our selves from threats around the globe!!!
> and what does india have in it they are already covered its not like any part of india is not covered by shaheen 2 it is us and eu that should be worried why do you care we make a missile to reach australia or us



I ll tell you why we are interested in Pak ICBMs. You ll never need an ICBM. Conflict with US and EU or for that matter attacking Israel are wild dreams. They are real in Zaid Hamid's world, not in the Real world. 
Only Possible use would be in a conflict that would involve both India and china.


----------



## Emmie

nalandapride said:


> i said 2+3=5. please stop trolling and tell me what you really asked about my question.



Are you out of your mind? Who the heck is trolling me or you? First go and learn some prescripts of formal conversation also augment your comprehension skills and then come back and talk..

Reread what I have asked, you'll certainly comprehend my question. If still you can't then take this question to any of your countrymen, he/she will make you understand.. Is it really a rocket science to share info on what you bear in your arsenal?


----------



## OrionHunter

alimobin memon said:


> IT WILL FLY ALMOST 150000 FT ABOVE YOUR AIR SPACE kIDDO FIRST THINK THAN WRITE JUST STARTED LAUGHING FOR NO
> REASON


The trouble with little people like you is that you can't distinguish when a post is written for some *humour*! I ain't dumb and know that such missiles are exoatmospheric. Nuff said!


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## asad71

What is the max range Pak missiles have achieved? Can they reach Israel or Qaatar?


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## IND151

problem is INDIA can afford to not test ICBM for decade, are you going to wait that long? Pak icbm pose no additional threat to us but our ICBM means forced changes in policies of overlords ruling m nmpqjlpq land of jade. and u will see pil e of useless letters at end of my posts. dis is because i m posting fro m mobile. i cant delete letters once posted or i hv to cancel whole post. sorry. ppde tupqddpqdddddedddprgh xn modemndd ghmm mm prmngggimnjk


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## jamal18

nalandapride said:


> Anyway how much time Pakistan will need to get an ICBM. Their SUPARCO could not develop a Satellite Launch Vehicle even in 50 Years, trying hard to upgrade Shaheen into SLV but still failed. So, it is unlikely Pakistan will ever have an ICBM in next 30-40 Years.



There was a quote from the head of suparco, ( he should know a thing or two) that Pakistan was about three years away from a SLV. I believe this quote is more than ten years old.

One of the of the reasons why Pakistan was not placed under more severe restrictions by the west is the understanding that Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is purely for India, it is not aimed at anybody else. A SLV will blow that understanding to oblivion. The moment Pakistan develops a SLV, it automatically brings London, Paris, New York and Jeruselam into the firing line. The diplomatic backlash against Pakistan will be catastrophic.

It doesn't take the brains of an Einstein to figure out why Pakistan has not done this.

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

nalandapride said:


> Anyway how much time Pakistan will need to get an ICBM. Their SUPARCO could not develop a Satellite Launch Vehicle even in 50 Years, trying hard to upgrade Shaheen into SLV but still failed. So, it is unlikely Pakistan will ever have an ICBM in next 30-40 Years.



My boy this is PA you're talking about. Usually they are not used to delaying tactics, especially when it comes to missiles.

-- Secondly, may be you're not aware of it, but Dr. A.Q Khan (Pakistan's nuclear scientist) told Pervez Musharaf that Pakistan right now is in a position to have its own launch pad for satellites but Mushi was not ready..

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## nomi007

asad71 said:


> What is the max range Pak missiles have achieved? Can they reach Israel or Qaatar?


we don't need ICBM
our targets are already in our range
but may be we are working


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## regular

seethru said:


> why do you guys need an ICBM anyway?


Cuz we are getting threats from across the oceans nowadayz and we need to counter that through our own ICBMs....

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## saiyan0321

> I ll tell you why we are interested in Pak ICBMs. You ll never need an ICBM. Conflict with US and EU or for that matter attacking Israel are wild dreams. They are real in Zaid Hamid's world, not in the Real world.
> Only Possible use would be in a conflict that would involve both India and china.



yeah umm pal when we are being attacked by us we really could use them. its not about wiping out the world its about deterrence
and you still didnt answer me why are indians interested in it sooo much we got you covered why do they say we dont need them its us who decide who our enemies are or not. and if indians think that we are going for some goose chase that will destroy us then shouldnt that make you happyPP
i say go for it not just to back us off but for our space research too heck science none can sanction that right?


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Space program and ICBM is in Pakistan's National Interest 

And its not true that our enemy is with in our range last time I checked India and Pakistan did not had a major war for quite some time

Its our national interest to engage any nation that dares to fly "weaponized" planes and missiles and target civilians with out a proper "authority" to conduct such actions. 

It violates National interest and makes the culprit our enemy automatically as a nation 

While our Leaders may say oh we will have dinner with them and they will give us a F16 for gift , in end what matters is that we build a ICBM and proper air defense to stop such countries from violating airspace

We should have a policy in Place to have 7,000 KM missiles and 11,000 km range missiles 
and also have Space program


----------



## I M Sikander

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Space program and ICBM is in Pakistan's National Interest
> 
> Its our national interest to engage any nation that dares to fly "weaponized" planes and missiles and target civilians with out a proper "authority" to conduct such actions.
> 
> It violates National interest and makes the culprit our enemy automatically as a nation
> 
> While our Leaders may say oh we will have dinner with them and they will give us a F16 for gift , in end what matters is that we build a ICBM and proper air defense to stop such countries from violating airspace.


Dude, all your argument doesn't make sense, going for ICBM or not is one question where as space violation by drone attacks is a totally different issue.

It seems to me as if, the kids on these forums are getting sick of having wars with india all the time. And now they are dying to see PAK-US conflict.

Grow up guyz, Going for ICBM or not is a pure strategic matter don't try to portay this as USA specific ICBM. Drone attacks and violations are lame excuses to go for ICBM. Our defense strategy is india centric, lets not add US dimension to it.



> We should have a policy in Place to have 7,000 KM missiles and 11,000 km range missiles
> and also have Space program


Instead of waisting resources on any dream project just for the sake of "Standing straight collars" is useless. We should not spread beyond our pants.


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## I M Sikander

regular said:


> Cuz we are getting threats from across the oceans nowadayz and we need to counter that through our own ICBMs....


No one is threating us from "Saath Samadar Paar". The US is sitting very close to us with their bases in afghanistan, Qatar.


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## jamal18

Ranasikander said:


> No one is threating us from "Saath Samadar Paar". The US is sitting very close to us with their bases in afghanistan, Qatar.



The US is threatening Pakistan, and a US/ Pakistan conflict is inevitable.

The west is very keen to bomb others simply because it is never in danger itself. There is no threat to its behaviour. This is why it is keen to bomb the Arabs.

The moment bombs are landing, for the first time, at their home, you will find they become more reluctant to bomb others.


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## Desert Fox

Everyday the same BS and the same threads with the same fanboyish comments, i'm sick and tired of this nonsense.

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## regular

Desert Fox said:


> Everyday the same BS and the same threads with the same fanboyish comments, i'm sick and tired of this nonsense.


What kinda comments U can expect here???.....US is the biggest threat to every nation on the face of this world whatsoever.......


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## anonymus

jamal18 said:


> There was a quote from the head of suparco, ( he should know a thing or two) that Pakistan was about three years away from a SLV. I believe this quote is more than ten years old.
> 
> One of the of the reasons why Pakistan was not placed under more severe restrictions by the west is the understanding that Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is purely for India, it is not aimed at anybody else. A SLV will blow that understanding to oblivion. The moment Pakistan develops a SLV, it automatically brings London, Paris, New York and Jeruselam into the firing line. The diplomatic backlash against Pakistan will be catastrophic.
> 
> It doesn't take the brains of an Einstein to figure out why Pakistan has not done this.


 
Man,Mechanics of ICBM is completely different from SLV.The similarity between the two is the same that is between a car and bike.They use same kind of engines but apart from that there is a lot of difference between the two.For starters a SLV flies under it's own power for the whole journey while a ICBM is powered only in a boost phase.then a SLV has to deliver it's payload in orbit while a payload of an ICBM has to reenter the atmosphere thus facing the perils of being destroyed by heat generated by friction.To add to this an SLV is massive in size compared to any missile and takes days to be refueled and hauled to launch site and it's launching need ideal situations something which no one could afford during a war.An ability to built SLV provides an engineering base which could be used to make ICBM but you cannot convert an SLV into an ICBM.
Another difference which i did not pointed in the main body of my reply is because it concerns an specific type of SLV which has a capacity to launch satellites in geo-stationary orbit.An ICBM needs for power in its boost phase is comparable to an GSLV.Even if you are able to make an SLV,You would still need an ability to make an cryogenic engine to make an ICBM if you people make a missile with same propellents.
India had an SLV program since 1970's with first SLV (SLV3) launched in 1980 but has been able to make decent missiles only recently.
And one more point,You have not designed any missile.You bought their designs and parts from China and north korea.Your Ex army chief and president Gen musharraf accepted it.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/30781.pdf
Asia Times
MissileThreat :: Pakistan
PAKISTAN & AXIS OF EVIL: Ghauri Missile
The Korean Spy's Murder Covered Up by Pakistan's Nuclear Bosses
So possibly your country simply has no engineering base for rocket science(missile or SLV).Nobody will go mad if you lauch a rock in space.

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## anonymus

jamal18 said:


> The US is threatening Pakistan, and a US/ Pakistan conflict is inevitable.
> 
> The west is very keen to bomb others simply because it is never in danger itself. There is no threat to its behaviour. This is why it is keen to bomb the Arabs.
> 
> The moment bombs are landing, for the first time, at their home, you will find they become more reluctant to bomb others.



If pakistan needs to take on west it need to have more than ICBM's.Most of it's assets would be destroyed on ground and even if it is able to launch some missiles,they would be interdicted by NMD.

You have a location flag of UK.I believe that you are not taking about UK when you mention about home.


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## asad71

nomi007 said:


> we don't need ICBM
> our targets are already in our range
> but may be we are working



I had asked that question because there were reports the Americans had obtained an undertaking from Mush that Pakistan would not make missiles capable of reaching Israel. In today's context, the current Western armada assembled in the Persian Gulf is as much a threat to Iran as Pakistan.


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## T-Rex

asad71 said:


> I had asked that question because there were reports the Americans had obtained an undertaking from Mush that Pakistan would not make missiles capable of reaching Israel. In today's context, the current Western armada assembled in the Persian Gulf is as much a threat to Iran as Pakistan.




*Mir Jaffars are everywhere, working unederneath to prevent appropriate deterrent from being developed.*


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## jamal18

anonymus said:


> Man,Mechanics of ICBM is completely different from SLV.The similarity between the two is the same that is between a car and bike.They use same kind of engines but apart from that there is a lot of difference between the two.For starters a SLV flies under it's own power for the whole journey while a ICBM is powered only in a boost phase.then a SLV has to deliver it's payload in orbit while a payload of an ICBM has to reenter the atmosphere thus facing the perils of being destroyed by heat generated by friction.To add to this an SLV is massive in size compared to any missile and takes days to be refueled and hauled to launch site and it's launching need ideal situations something which no one could afford during a war.An ability to built SLV provides an engineering base which could be used to make ICBM but you cannot convert an SLV into an ICBM.
> Another difference which i did not pointed in the main body of my reply is because it concerns an specific type of SLV which has a capacity to launch satellites in geo-stationary orbit.An ICBM needs for power in its boost phase is comparable to an GSLV.Even if you are able to make an SLV,You would still need an ability to make an cryogenic engine to make an ICBM if you people make a missile with same propellents.
> India had an SLV program since 1970's with first SLV (SLV3) launched in 1980 but has been able to make decent missiles only recently.
> And one more point,You have not designed any missile.You bought their designs and parts from China and north korea.Your Ex army chief and president Gen musharraf accepted it.
> http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/30781.pdf
> Asia Times
> MissileThreat :: Pakistan
> PAKISTAN & AXIS OF EVIL: Ghauri Missile
> The Korean Spy's Murder Covered Up by Pakistan's Nuclear Bosses
> So possibly your country simply has no engineering base for rocket science(missile or SLV).Nobody will go mad if you lauch a rock in space.



Thank you for your enlightening post. I was not aware of many of the things you mention. 

However, I believe the head of suparco was aware of these points before he made his statement.

Nobody will go made if Pakistan launches a rock into space?

There won't be a set of dry underwear in the west if they did.


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## jamal18

anonymus said:


> If pakistan needs to take on west it need to have more than ICBM's.Most of it's assets would be destroyed on ground and even if it is able to launch some missiles,they would be interdicted by NMD.
> 
> You have a location flag of UK.I believe that you are not taking about UK when you mention about home.



Pakistan isn't taking any one 'on', it would be defending itself.

How and what will be destroyed on the ground? By conventional forces? Nato has only one airbase in the area, Bagram; is it that difficult to disable one airfield when that is the only target available?

The threat would be from aircraft carriers out at sea, with their inherent vulnerability.

And a nuclear exchange? In the Iraq war, Nato didn't destroy a single scud launched by Iraq on 
Israel.

If Pakistan had an ICBM, do you think western politicians really want to find out if it works?

Hiroshima would never have happened if Japan had the ability to bomb the US.


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## BelligerentPacifist

anonymus said:


> ...For starters a SLV flies under it's own power for the whole journey while a ICBM is powered only in a boost phase....


The "whole journey" of the satellite carrier is just to the orbit, which, wrt horizontal distance, is a small fraction of the total horizontal distance (over Earth's curve of course) that a ballistic missile's RV has to cover.

jamal18:
All SLVs are not the same. Having certain kinds of one would cause consternation among other countries currently out of range. For example, an Arian 5 or a Soyuz cannot be perceived by anyone to be used in any wartime situation as BMs, although theoretically they may be able to deliver their payload at a designated destination on the planet.


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## T-Rex

*A stitch in time saves nine; Pakistan wasted valuable time in developing only short range and intermediate range missiles. It should not have put on hold the development of ICBMs.*


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## Tihamah

Mashaa`allah 

Very nice, it is important to improve the nuclear deterrence capabilities of pakistan muslims needs this.

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## darkinsky

i think its better on us to save money and spend it on our poverty instead of foolish hobbies like we gonna be attacked soon from a nation across the atlantic

also we cant even defend ourselves with the arms we have, forget what happens next

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## K-Xeroid

darkinsky said:


> i think its better on us to save money and spend it on our poverty instead of foolish hobbies like we gonna be attacked soon from a nation across the atlantic
> 
> also we cant even defend ourselves with the arms we have, forget what happens next


If you want us to defend our nation with the arm we have ,Then it is necessary to vote for better people next time.


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## T-Rex

darkinsky said:


> i think its better on us to save money and spend it on our poverty instead of foolish hobbies like we gonna be attacked soon from a nation across the atlantic
> 
> also we cant even defend ourselves with the arms we have, forget what happens next


 
*If you're going to do something, do it properly or else don't do it at all. If you think spending on proper defence is a waste of time, go start a movement to merge with india and then once you achieve that goal you can spend all you want on poverty alleviation, but then again, be ready for incidents like the Gujarat Massacre. BTW, Iraq was not attacked by her neighbours, the invaders came from across the oceans and Iran faces the same threat now. You may think that the possibility is a hobby but those who have their eyes and ears open they don't, they see it as it is, a grave existential threat!*


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## regular

darkinsky said:


> i think its better on us to save money and spend it on our poverty instead of foolish hobbies like we gonna be attacked soon from a nation across the atlantic
> 
> also we cant even defend ourselves with the arms we have, forget what happens next


I guess we are not poor instead we are lazy don't wanna do our own work...We feel shame in doing it...thats all.....God/Allah has blessed us with everything but still we not thankful to him.....

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## Uchiha

I hope their more useful than F16s :O


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## T-Rex

*The follwoing shows that Pakistan has Tipu-1,2,3 with a range of 8000 km, 9500 km and 13000 km respectively. It also shows drawings of Haider missiles. Are they real or just imagination of some fanboy?*

World&#39;s 4th Most Powerful Country Pakistan (Pakistan Military Power) - YouTube


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## 21 Dec 2012

This thread started in 2010. Still there is no concrete evidence to show that Pakistan has acquired an ICBM.
Except for some Youtube videos^^^ of course.

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## OrionHunter

Aeronaut said:


> *It will allow us to strike targets on long ranges.*


What targets?? For God's sake man, this ICBM would cover Western Europe, Africa, Russia, China, West Asia, Indonesia and the CIS Republics!! 

Now the question is: *Whatever for? *Is it going to be cost effective to have such a missile when there are NO identifiable targets/enemies at that range? 

I think this missile, if inducted would be just for an ego trip! It would have made more sense to have rocket program in place for launching satellites - civilian as well as military - for the amount being spent on this white elephant. This could be converted to an ICBM program too after some modifications at a much later date if the situation so demands.

But hey! What do I know of PAs strategic planning for deploying such missiles? Nix! There must be something more than meets the eye here! 

Cheers!


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## monitor

A ultra nationalist video made by some dream lover where he get J-90 J-91 stealth fighter ? H-1 attack heli ? and hider missile is said 250 km rang other missile shown seem pictured in any European country . so certainly a fake video


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## The Deterrent

T-Rex said:


> *The follwoing shows that Pakistan has Tipu-1,2,3 with a range of 8000 km, 9500 km and 13000 km respectively. It also shows drawings of Haider missiles. Are they real or just imagination of some fanboy?*
> 
> World's 4th Most Powerful Country Pakistan (Pakistan Military Power) - YouTube



Dude, you shouldn't be that dumb to point out the difference...

The guy is stating Shaheen-II as an ICBM (at 3800 km) with LIQUID fuel. He is using pictures of Russian Topol and Topol-M ICBMs as Tipu ICBMs. The "drawings" for Haider missile are of random SLVs. He is saying that Pakistan "will" have J-90,J-91,H-8 stealth aircrafts,none of which the world has seen....(I didnt bother to watch any further)...

Hell, its more than the imagination of a fanboy...


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## 21 Dec 2012

AhaseebA said:


> Dude, you shouldn't be that dumb to point out the difference...
> 
> The guy is stating Shaheen-II as an ICBM (at 3800 km) with LIQUID fuel. He is using pictures of Russian Topol and Topol-M ICBMs as Tipu ICBMs. The "drawings" for Haider missile are of random SLVs. He is saying that Pakistan "will" have J-90,J-91,H-8 stealth aircrafts,none of which the world has seen....(I didnt bother to watch any further)...
> 
> Hell, its more than the imagination of a fanboy...


What's even more ironic is that he claims that even with all that hardware Pakistan will only be 4[SUP]th[/SUP] most powerful military.


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## somebozo

thats a russian topol missle


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## S.Y.A

we should spend more money on air defence systems, and satellites


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## Black Widow

Whats going on, India has immediate threat, still we are not developing ICBM (Agni 5 is not ICBM, it has 5000KM range which don't qualify as ICBM). where as Paksiatn has no threat at all.


I think ppl on other side of border are not fool to waste money on something, which has no use in future.


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## regular

AhaseebA said:


> Dude, you shouldn't be that dumb to point out the difference...
> 
> The guy is stating Shaheen-II as an ICBM (at 3800 km) with LIQUID fuel. He is using pictures of Russian Topol and Topol-M ICBMs as Tipu ICBMs. The "drawings" for Haider missile are of random SLVs. He is saying that Pakistan "will" have J-90,J-91,H-8 stealth aircrafts,none of which the world has seen....(I didnt bother to watch any further)...
> 
> Hell, its more than the imagination of a fanboy...


Yes! its for sure that Pakistan is the world's 4th most powerful country on the internet only through these movies that makes us feel happi by watching them......

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## freddiemaize

safriz said:


> Fitting an additional stage in existing Pakistani missiles and converting them into a longer range ICBM wont be that difficult..



 



Hey why can't you fit 10 more and reach moon.. Oh thats already done.. Oh add 50 more to reach Mars.. Bro get yourself fixed...

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## daddy-ji

freddiemaize said:


> Hey why can't you fit 10 more and reach moon.. Oh thats already done.. Oh add 50 more to reach Mars.. Bro get yourself fixed...



don't laugh on pakistani kids...
we will offer pakistan some chinese *quality* missiles.. in future ..


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## regular

Yes! that will be enough to shut down the India's mouths.......insha-Allah.......


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## karan21

Black Widow said:


> Whats going on, India has immediate threat, still we are not developing ICBM (Agni 5 is not ICBM, it has 5000KM range which don't qualify as ICBM). where as Paksiatn has no threat at all.
> 
> 
> I think ppl on other side of border are not fool to waste money on something, which has no use in future.



loll 5000km is the minimum range of the missile the maximum range can go upto 7000-7500. it is a dam freaking icbm buddy.


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## medulla

ridoking said:


> best choice to nuke India !!!!!!
> 
> 
> Allah the greatest



This kind of charity work should start frm home so first nuke yourself then come 2 us.

Mashallah......


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## Nothing

ridoking said:


> best choice to nuke India !!!!!!
> 
> 
> Allah the greatest


 


medulla said:


> This kind of charity work should start frm home so first nuke yourself then come 2 us.
> 
> Mashallah......



They don't need nuke ... their leaders and Army is doing it nicely.. .. what a fan boy.. only one answer Nuke India .. Nuke India ... you guys can't remove TTP from your own country and taking about destroying India ... on Nuke on India and redraw world map .. you know what I mean


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## karan21

ridoking said:


> best choice to nuke India !!!!!!
> 
> 
> Allah the greatest



even though u have done the most pathetic trolling. just letting u know if today a war happens(allah na kare) and pakistan openly threatens abt nukes just like kargil. i promise u pakistan wont survive more than 60 mins after that and u guys wont even know who destroyed u. sorry


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## Emmie

karan21 said:


> even though u have done the most pathetic trolling. just letting u know if today a war happens(allah na kare) and pakistan openly threatens abt nukes just like kargil. i promise u pakistan wont survive more than 60 mins after that and u guys wont even know who destroyed u. sorry



Exactly... People of subcontinent will be roasted.

Therefore best option is to avoid nukes..

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## no_koadsheding_plz

Xestan said:


> That's something very important for the National security, not to remind you the evil ambitions that Israel has, + the coming times will be very HOSTILE to Muslims.


 bro we cant mend our own house and u r talking of ........


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## karan21

Emmie said:


> Exactly... People of subcontinent will be roasted.
> 
> Therefore best option is to avoid nukes..



go and tell that to the guy who first promoted to use nukes by pak on india. anyways i dont think all pll of subcontinent will be roasted.


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## hotaki

OrionHunter said:


> What targets?? For God's sake man, this ICBM would cover Western Europe, Africa, Russia, China, West Asia, Indonesia and the CIS Republics!!
> 
> Now the question is: *Whatever for? *Is it going to be cost effective to have such a missile when there are NO identifiable targets/enemies at that range?
> 
> I think this missile, if inducted would be just for an ego trip! It would have made more sense to have rocket program in place for launching satellites - civilian as well as military - for the amount being spent on this white elephant. This could be converted to an ICBM program too after some modifications at a much later date if the situation so demands.
> 
> But hey! What do I know of PAs strategic planning for deploying such missiles? Nix! There must be something more than meets the eye here!
> 
> Cheers!



We decide what we need, India is just a small fish for us now, we got everything that covers India, we need to look at the bigger picture.

Having the technology to make an icbm is a must whether we decide to make it or not, also why does it irk an Indian if Pakistan does or doesn't make it?. Why does an Indian have to comment when they clearly know their comments, advice is neither welcome nor needed.



karan21 said:


> go and tell that to the guy who first promoted to use nukes by pak on india. anyways i dont think all pll of subcontinent will be roasted.




How did you come up with that theory, has India got a nuclear shelter for every Indian in India?.


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## karan21

hotaki said:


> How did you come up with that theory, has India got a nuclear shelter for every Indian in India?.



i said not all people will be roasted but yes india will be nuked. anyways this is off topic lets talk about pakistani icbm. or first worry abt shaheen 3 and ghauri 3


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## Emmie

karan21 said:


> go and tell that to the guy who first promoted to use nukes by pak on india. anyways i dont think all pll of subcontinent will be roasted.



You didn't get what I implied. 

Leave it anyway.

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## RayKalm

To all the Pakistanis saying "we shouldn't build this, we don't have any enemies other than India".

Look at how NATO massacred our troops. Look at America's threats. 

If we can target America's allies - NATO countries, then this is perfect news for us.

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## T-Rex

Black Widow said:


> Whats going on, India has immediate threat, still we are not developing ICBM (Agni 5 is not ICBM, it has 5000KM range which don't qualify as ICBM). where as Paksiatn has no threat at all.
> 
> 
> I think ppl on other side of border are not fool to waste money on something, which has no use in future.


*
Your existence as a liar is a proof that Pakistan has a credible threat!*

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## A.Rafay

I dont Know why These threads are going strong, they are constantly being trolled by indians


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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

no_koadsheding_plz said:


> bro we cant mend our own house and u r talking of ........



when you struggle to find a swetter to wear when you need it the most , this doesn't mean that you take your pant off too ...


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## KRAIT

Single thread of evidence of ICBM ranging even to Europe may bring sanctions. No need to invite them until you strengthen your economy. Remember how insecure Europeans are. US is also looking for reasons too.


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## Ottoman-Turk

isnt pakistan and india neighbours? in case of war as some said what is pakistans longest range missile ? im sure it can cover india easily.


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## Banglar Lathial

Is there any real evidence of this ICBM? Two possibilities immediately appear.

Either China has helped, or the rumour is just that.


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## regular

KRAIT said:


> Single thread of evidence of ICBM ranging even to Europe may bring sanctions. No need to invite them until you strengthen your economy. Remember how insecure Europeans are. US is also looking for reasons too.


I guess India is helping Pakisan to make their ICBM cuz it won't be used against India as we already got India coveredup ........


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## The Deterrent

^ No, India is not yet "covered".
Pakistan still needs a 3000 km range IRBM to cover all of India with a good strategic depth for launch.


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## eik_pagall

Yaar get some bijli first
do something to generate some bijli
a common person who is suffering has nothing to do with these IBMs and Atom Bombs
Pakistan has Nuclear weapons but no electricity likewise Pakistan is an agricultural country and we are always out of eatable items.

We successfully tested atom bomb and became Atomic Power without electric power 

we're going good in missile technology
we're talking about military equipment
Let's first save poor people by flooding, poverty and other issues
B human yaar think like a human

her saal lakhon log sailaab mai beh jatay hain
Zara c barishien ho jay tu Sailaab aa jatay hain
aur we're discussing DEFENSE ?
which defense? 
What happened when US choppers intruded into Pakistan territory and raided at OBL compound? our RADARs failed to identify
Which defense?
Daily Afghan terrorists intrude into Pakistan and kill innocent civilians?
which defence and which weapons capability we're comparing with other countries?


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## T-Rex

eik_pagall said:


> Yaar get some bijli first
> do something to generate some bijli
> a common person who is suffering has nothing to do with these IBMs and Atom Bombs
> Pakistan has Nuclear weapons but no electricity likewise Pakistan is an agricultural country and we are always out of eatable items.
> 
> We successfully tested atom bomb and became Atomic Power without electric power
> 
> we're going good in missile technology
> we're talking about military equipment
> Let's first save poor people by flooding, poverty and other issues
> B human yaar think like a human
> 
> her saal lakhon log sailaab mai beh jatay hain
> Zara c barishien ho jay tu Sailaab aa jatay hain
> aur we're discussing DEFENSE ?
> which defense?
> What happened when US choppers intruded into Pakistan territory and raided at OBL compound? our RADARs failed to identify
> Which defense?
> Daily Afghan terrorists intrude into Pakistan and kill innocent civilians?
> which defence and which weapons capability we're comparing with other countries?


*
Saddam had plenty of 'bijli' but it could not stop the zionazis from invading Iraq. Yes, economic progress is very important but only if you exist as a state. Pakistan has 'allies' like uncle sam, so it's an existential problem!*

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## A.Rafay

This is a 2009 Thread Who thought to bring it up by trolling pakistan is not building any ICBM we even dont have a proper 3000 KM Missile Shaheen 3 and ghauri 3 were 3000 KM our scientists stopped them making now they are are just sitting at home and we are watching india fire its ICBMs and Nuke Subs And Carriers. RIP PAK Missiles


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## Slayer786

eik_pagall said:


> Yaar get some bijli first
> do something to generate some bijli
> a common person who is suffering has nothing to do with these IBMs and Atom Bombs
> Pakistan has Nuclear weapons but no electricity likewise Pakistan is an agricultural country and we are always out of eatable items.
> 
> 
> 
> We successfully tested atom bomb and became Atomic Power without electric power
> 
> we're going good in missile technology
> we're talking about military equipment
> Let's first save poor people by flooding, poverty and other issues
> B human yaar think like a human
> 
> her saal lakhon log sailaab mai beh jatay hain
> Zara c barishien ho jay tu Sailaab aa jatay hain
> aur we're discussing DEFENSE ?
> which defense?
> What happened when US choppers intruded into Pakistan territory and raided at OBL compound? our RADARs failed to identify
> Which defense?
> Daily Afghan terrorists intrude into Pakistan and kill innocent civilians?
> which defence and which weapons capability we're comparing with other countries?



What you write is all true. Pakistan should have developed its infrastructure to alleviate the poverty levels. We have failed as a nation to uplift the masses from the miserable conditions that afflicts them. But the corrupt civilian govts are to blame. They have had plenty of chances at democracy and they have looted the country into bankruptcy. Our military is making sure that Pakistan can withstand the global designs of the enemies that have entrenched their ****** hands into our territories and using bought agents to kill innocent civilians. 
We need a honest person to take charge of the govt, until then we need a strong deterrent to keep our enemies from attacking us head on.


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## asad71

AhaseebA said:


> ^ No, India is not yet "covered".
> Pakistan still needs a 3000 km range IRBM to cover all of India with a good strategic depth for launch.



It was said that Mush had given an undertaking to his US patrons not to manufacture any delivery device that could reach (United States of) Israel.


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## Mav3rick

eik_pagall said:


> Yaar get some bijli first
> do something to generate some bijli
> a common person who is suffering has nothing to do with these IBMs and Atom Bombs
> Pakistan has Nuclear weapons but no electricity likewise Pakistan is an agricultural country and we are always out of eatable items.



We have enough capacity to cater for our electricity requirements so long as the Govt. pays all IPP's along with National electricity producers. The Government does not pay her bills neither does she ensure availability of fuel to energy producers who in turn are unable to generate enough power as they are unable to purchase fuel for their generators. The rising circular debt is a serious problem. *In short, we have the capacity to produce surplus electricity but not the resources because of bad governance, corruption and indifference of those in power.* 





eik_pagall said:


> We successfully tested atom bomb and became Atomic Power without electric power
> 
> we're going good in missile technology
> we're talking about military equipment
> Let's first save poor people by flooding, poverty and other issues
> B human yaar think like a human



It is foolish at times to have any sympathy for the 'poor' as they continue to vote these feudals and landlords in to power again and again. *If they do not have any sympathy for themselves, do they really deserve any from us?*





eik_pagall said:


> her saal lakhon log sailaab mai beh jatay hain
> Zara c barishien ho jay tu Sailaab aa jatay hain



Lakhon log kuch din ke liye beghar zaroor ho jate honge lekin beh nahi jaate honge sailaab mei. Anyway, most of those who lose their homes and goods are themselves to blame as they build these mud huts on river beds in years when the rivers are low in water and when there is a flood, they lose everything before anybody else loses anything. Furthermore, they can yet again thank their 'masters' and 'sardars' and 'nawabs' for diverting flood water away from their estates towards the poor.





eik_pagall said:


> aur we're discussing DEFENSE ?
> which defense?
> What happened when US choppers intruded into Pakistan territory and raided at OBL compound? our RADARs failed to identify
> Which defense?
> Daily Afghan terrorists intrude into Pakistan and kill innocent civilians?
> which defence and which weapons capability we're comparing with other countries?



It is a possibility that we do not possess the technology to detect stealth, state of the art American intruding war machines, should that not compel us to acquire technology that not only effectively detects them but also engages and shoots them down?


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## Hulk

Pakistan missile capacity is overstated, it has been habit of their generals. They have not even tested their missile with full range. The range they mention is calculated, we will know later if it works. On this aspect DRDO is far ahead, they have tested every missile multiple times.


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## Kompromat

indianrabbit said:


> Pakistan missile capacity is overstated



Evidence?



> it has been habit of their generals.



How do you know that??



> They have not even tested their missile with full range.



Evidence?



> The range they mention is calculated, we will know later if it works.



Would be too late.



> On this aspect DRDO is far ahead, they have tested every missile multiple times.



Maybe because they fail so often?

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## A.Muqeet khan

indianrabbit said:


> Pakistan missile capacity is overstated, it has been habit of their generals. They have not even tested their missile with full range. The range they mention is calculated, we will know later if it works. On this aspect DRDO is far ahead, they have tested every missile multiple times.




sir u are fairly reasonable person i am sure atleast u will have some basis for ur proof plz enlighten me


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## Slayer786

asad71 said:


> It was said that Mush had given an undertaking to his US patrons not to manufacture any delivery device that could reach (United States of) Israel.



Who said that? You.

Dont just type anythig without any facts. Otherwise it looks that yo re bull5hitting.
Wich you obviously are.


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## Xracer

LAHORE: Earlier on April 26, 2012 when news broke of Pakistan testing its new Intermediate Ballistic Missile Hatf-IV (Shaheen-1A), Terminal X contacted Brigadier Ateeq ur Rehman, Director PR for the Pakistani military's Inter-Services Public Relations regarding the range of the latest variant. This scribe was informed that the range has not been disclosed for various reasons.

Later today, a Pakistani military source for TX made an important disclosure: the mysterious range everyone was guessing for the Shaheen-1A is not 2500 kilometers or 5000 kilometers as some exaggerated, it has a maximum range of just 1500 kilometers. According to the official, there were two main objectives of this short test:
Enhance accuracy for pinpoint attacks
Inclusion into the league of nations which have developed intermediate ballistic missiles.
The official stated that Pakistan's deterrence is foremostly against any aggressive Indian adventurism that can turn the region into an inferno. In the official's opinion, India carried out the recent Agni-V ICBM test to send an indirect signal to its rival China, whom it has strong reservations against for various reasons.

It was also revealed by the official that India's military establishment has not shared the actual range of the Agni-V ICBM which happens to be 8000 kilometers, not 5000 kilometers as falsely broadcast in the mainstream media.


"Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres", said the official, "But they will be revealed and tested when there is a need for it. At the moment, Pakistan is silently observing the Eastern Theatre of Operations spearheaded by the US and its increasing presence in Europe, the Pacific Ocean and South Asia. Add to that Indian frolicking and the coming US-Israel drills in the Middle East... and when the time comes, those who should know, will know, Pakistan also has targets beyond India... way beyond India".

He added, "A wise group does not consider the Agni-V test as a threat for Pakistan but rather for China, and China is smart enough to deal with it. The military establishment is not really considering ICBM tests soon since we consider silence as the ultimate weapon. It might be that Israel signaled India to provoke Pakistan into doing an ICBM test and exposing their exact range so that an international conspiracy against the country's nukes could be initiated as is being currently done against North Korea. Far from being slapped with sanctions, India instead received appreciation from the US, NATO and Israel for its recent test".


And, as this scribe repeated the million dollar question, 'Any ICBM tests in the pipeline?'

"Well, yes.. My vote is not for it though".

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...have-range-9000-kilometres.html#ixzz27cTb9ezs

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## MM_Haider

*"Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres", said the official, "But they will be revealed and tested when there is a need for it.*

what???????? you got to be kiddin me...


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## Cool_Soldier

Still time has not come to test above 5000km range.But Pakistan should test some thing near 5000km..


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## Icarus

Supply&Demand said:


> As i always said...Pakistan has the best missile research and development organisation in the whole world..
> 
> Even US and Russia had missile launch failures....But up until now Pakistan has none..
> 
> Truly great!!



That's because we only perform public tests when they are needed, in political terms. In reality the missiles have been developed and perfected long before they are tested for the public eyes thus any problems are ironed out during development.

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## ajtr

Icarus said:


> That's because we only perform public tests when they are needed, in political terms. In reality the missiles have been developed and perfected long before they are tested for the public eyes thus any problems are ironed out during development.


Truly amazing missiles i must say and above all most amazing is the explanation by the thinking tank.


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## Neuro

Icarus said:


> That's because we only perform public tests when they are needed, in political terms. In reality the missiles have been developed and perfected long before they are tested for the public eyes thus any problems are ironed out during development.



But they never revealed technical specifications why? do have any interesting stories about Pakistan incapability of launching satellite even after the development of LRBM.


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## Icarus

Neuro said:


> But they never revealed technical specifications why? do have any interesting stories about Pakistan incapability of launching satellite even after the development of LRBM.



1) Describe "Technical Specifications", It's a defence asset, any details that can compromise it's effectiveness in combat are kept secret. Same goes the case for Indian missiles. 

2) Pakistan has been capable of launching missiles since 2005, I remember when Pakistan was due to launch their satellite during Musharraf's tenure, there was considerable debate over whether domestic launch facilities should be used but in the end it was decided that Pakistan's Satellite Launch system was in it's infancy and the satellite represented a significant investment, thus the more mature Chinese Launch System was given preference with SUPARCO being given more time to iron out the inconsistencies in domestic launch mechanism. As per rumours, Pakistan will launch a satellite with the domestic system in 2014-15.

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## Supply&Demand

Icarus said:


> That's because we only perform public tests when they are needed, in political terms. In reality the missiles have been developed and perfected long before they are tested for the public eyes thus any problems are ironed out during development.



And how do they perform private tests?? do they fire a missile inside a warehouse?? US satellites may be are junk if they cant see Pakistanis testing nuclear capable missiles...!!


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## Icarus

Supply&Demand said:


> And how do they perform private tests?? do they fire a missile inside a warehouse?? US satellites may be are junk if they cant see Pakistanis testing nuclear capable missiles...!!



And is the US supposed to raise hue and cry over the testing of these missiles? Are they expected to call Fox and babble the whole story? They might know but if they have intel, I doubt they'll flaunt it.

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## MM_Haider

Supply&Demand said:


> And how do they perform private tests?? do they fire a missile inside a warehouse?? US satellites may be are junk if they cant see Pakistanis testing nuclear capable missiles...!!



ever heard of simulation?? & plus i believe there must be some failures... which are hidden from public for the reason God knows!!


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## MM_Haider

OFF TOPIC: america's ICBM launcghing site..

ICBM Missile launch sites in Google Earth - Google Earth Cool Places


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## Awesome

ajtr said:


> Truly amazing missiles i must say and above all most amazing is the explanation by the thinking tank.



It's not like Indian missiles have failed 90% of the times, more like 10-20%. Pakistani missile tests have not failed - by chance OR of course exceptional attention to detail. Actually Indian failure rates in this day n age are an exception not the norm to be taken as a standard.

Don't compare them with American and Russian failures 3 decades back. When was the last time you heard about a high profile missile having a catastrophic failure? Indians had 2 in a row (Agni3 and the SLV).

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## Supply&Demand

MM_Haider said:


> ever heard of simulation?? & plus i believe there must be some failures... which are hidden from public for the reason God knows!!




so why are not those reports made to public?? Pakistanis believe they have world's best missiles(lol!!)

Also, Pakistanis seem to think they have 9000+ range missiles! Is that also based on simulation??? Pakistan may be having the best simulators if they can simulate 5000+ range missiles performance correctly without having to test it..coz even US, Russia, China and India do test(may be because they dont have such good simulators)!


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## Supply&Demand

Asim Aquil said:


> It's not like Indian missiles have failed 90% of the times, more like 10-20%. Pakistani missile tests have not failed - by chance OR of course exceptional attention to detail. Actually Indian failure rates in this day n age are an exception not the norm to be taken as a standard.
> 
> Don't compare them with American and Russian failures 3 decades back. When was the last time you heard about a high profile missile having a catastrophic failure? Indians had 2 in a row (Agni3 and the SLV).



must be an unparalleled, unmatched 'exceptional attention to detail' if Pakistan did not have a single failure in 50 yrs of missile development!

so what is the max range Pakistani missiles can hit??

2500 kms or 3500 kms or 9000 kms or 19000 kms??

pretty surprising that a country which gives so much attention to detail that it has not got a single missile launch failure,which can launch missiles to 9000 kms distance but has not launched a single rocket capable of launching a satellite at 300 kms height and that too having world's best simulators for testing!


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## KRAIT

Asim Aquil said:


> It's not like Indian missiles have failed 90% of the times, more like 10-20%. Pakistani missile tests have not failed - by chance OR of course exceptional attention to detail. Actually Indian failure rates in this day n age are an exception not the norm to be taken as a standard.
> 
> Don't compare them with American and Russian failures 3 decades back. When was the last time you heard about a high profile missile having a catastrophic failure? Indians had 2 in a row (Agni3 and the SLV).


You do realize these are advance weaponry ad sometimes they fail. It doesn't matter if you conducted the test 3 decades ago or today. The test at that time was of new technology while same as test of today of new technology. 

The instruments and capabilities they have, the amount of research they done and the computing power they have (simulations are being conducted on high end computers or supercomputers now reduces their failure) makes their tests less prone to failure but we did see US/USSR (Russia) failing in its advance programs. Many didn't materialize. So US and USSR argument failures 3 decades back can be applied here. US space craft exploded just after launch (they landed on moon 50 years ago) recently. Russia's MARS mission miserably failed (they sent a person back 50 years). 

No matter how much careful you are, simulations you are run, tests fails especially when we talk about countries like India and Pakistan who are relatively new in this field and project of such caliber and highly advanced considering our technological level. Isn't it raises a question ? I think govt. of Pakistan doesn't tell the failure if they happen, so that the citizenry don't feel insecure or bring down their morale.

Indian missile defense is considered as top-tier missile shield but the failures did occur even when we have more technological prowess considering the achievements in developing projects like AAD, PAD, Chandrayan, PSLV etc. For India, these programs are like MARS mission of Russia in terms of difficulty.


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## Awesome

Supply&Demand said:


> must be an unparalleled, unmatched 'exceptional attention to detail' if Pakistan did not have a single failure in 50 yrs of missile development!
> 
> so what is the max range Pakistani missiles can hit??
> 
> 2500 kms or 3500 kms or 9000 kms or 19000 kms??
> 
> pretty surprising that a country which gives so much attention to detail that it has not got a single missile launch failure,which can launch missiles to 9000 kms distance but has not launched a single rocket capable of launching a satellite at 300 kms height and that too having world's best simulators for testing!



Pakistan only has missiles up to 2500 km range, maybe the reason we take our sweet time between tests ensures lesser failures?

I'm sure there are SOME parameters that fail otherwise you won't need to test a missile over and over as Pakistan has. However, what we are talking about are catastrophic failures... It is not mandatory that this catastrophic failure must have happened by now. Its freakin 2012... The biggest failure one expects is a missile not hitting its target, not it exploding in mid-air.

It CAN happen, but its not something extraordinary that it hasn't happened just because it happened twice with India in a row.



KRAIT said:


> You do realize these are advance weaponry ad sometimes they fail. It doesn't matter if you conducted the test 3 decades ago or today. The test at that time was of new technology while same as test of today of new technology.
> 
> The instruments and capabilities they have, the amount of research they done and the computing power they have (simulations are being conducted on high end computers or supercomputers now reduces their failure) makes their tests less prone to failure but we did see US/USSR (Russia) failing in its advance programs. Many didn't materialize. So US and USSR argument failures 3 decades back can be applied here. US space craft exploded just after launch (they landed on moon 50 years ago) recently. Russia's MARS mission miserably failed (they sent a person back 50 years).
> 
> No matter how much careful you are, simulations you are run, tests fails especially when we talk about countries like India and Pakistan who are relatively new in this field and project of such caliber and highly advanced considering our technological level. Isn't it raises a question ? I think govt. of Pakistan doesn't tell the failure if they happen, so that the citizenry don't feel insecure or bring down their morale.
> 
> Indian missile defense is considered as top-tier missile shield but the failures did occur even when we have more technological prowess considering the achievements in developing projects like AAD, PAD, Chandrayan, PSLV etc. For India, these programs are like MARS mission of Russia in terms of difficulty.



I'm not giving any expert comments here, just poking holes at the logic that "Haw hai, Pakistanis haven't failed in a test yet? They must be cheating". This is no argument.


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## Hulk

Asim Aquil said:


> Pakistan only has missiles up to 2500 km range, maybe the reason we take our sweet time between tests ensures lesser failures?
> 
> I'm sure there are SOME parameters that fail otherwise you won't need to test a missile over and over as Pakistan has. However, what we are talking about are catastrophic failures... It is not mandatory that this catastrophic failure must have happened by now. Its freakin 2012... The biggest failure one expects is a missile not hitting its target, not it exploding in mid-air.
> 
> It CAN happen, but its not something extraordinary that it hasn't happened just because it happened twice with India in a row.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not giving any expert comments here, just poking holes at the logic that "Haw hai, Pakistanis haven't failed in a test yet? They must be cheating". This is no argument.



Pakistan has a philosophy that all development test are part of development and not failures, hence they do not report any failed test. This makes some people believe that there are no failures.

Pakistan has only modified little bit the missiles they got from NK and China.

The only drive to extend the range to 3500 never worked. Forget about ICBM.


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## Icarus

indianrabbit said:


> Pakistan has a philosophy that all development test are part of development and not failures, hence they do not report any failed test. This makes some people believe that there are no failures.



I am inclined to agree with that statement.



> Pakistan has only modified little bit the missiles they got from NK and China.



Bullshit, kindly quote the Korean or Chinese Counterparts of Pakistani missiles rather than just repost some troll's assertions. 



> The only drive to extend the range to 3500 never worked. Forget about ICBM.



It is widely known that a missile by the name of Taimur with 4500km range is in advanced stages of development. The reason Pakistan does not invest in ICBMs is because we have no aggressive ambitions, our sole reason behind missile development is to act as a safeguard against India and a missile with 3500km range fulfils that objective as it is.

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## notorious_eagle

Supply&Demand said:


> must be an unparalleled, unmatched 'exceptional attention to detail' if Pakistan did not have a single failure in 50 yrs of missile development!



Pakistan has had missile test failures, you just don't hear about it on the news . As Icarus stated, missiles are tested in front of the cameras after they have been perfected and all the defects corrected. 



indianrabbit said:


> we will know later if it works.



Do you really want to find that out in a war. You might think this way but your General Staff is certainly not taking any chances. 



indianrabbit said:


> On this aspect DRDO is far ahead, they have tested every missile multiple times.



Don't you guys read the news, in this year alone we have had several tests conducted by the Strategic Command.

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## Hyperion

indianrabbit said:


> Pakistan has only modified little bit the missiles they got from NK and China.
> 
> The only drive to extend the range to 3500 never worked. Forget about ICBM.



Ofcourse you are right. We are all "Unparh / Jahil / Gawar/ Ullo kay Pathay", who don't know anything about Physics, Metallurgy, Fluid Mechanics, Thermodynamics etc etc.... 

Oh, I forgot, we still do wipe our arses with tree leaves. Happy now? Good... it's my wish to inflate your ego!

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## Icarus

Hyperion said:


> Ofcourse you are right. We are all "Unparh / Jahil / Gawar/ Ullo kay Pathay", who don't know anything about Physics, Metallurgy, Fluid Mechanics, Thermodynamics etc etc....
> 
> Oh, I forgot, we still do wipe our arses with tree leaves. Happy now? Good... it's my wish to inflate your ego!



You forgot to mention that we still buy those missile by bartering our livestock for them.........

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## v9s

For those saying we never have failures, we DO, but you just never hear about them.

Hell, our 1st missiles (hatf 1 or abdali 1) were complete failures, and we only got to know about them after the CIA declassified documents on our earliest missile tests a year or two back (look 'em up on the net).

Remember the frenzy on the modified harpoons a few years back? Rumors are that we tested the Babur SLCM, which was a failure (according to a member here).

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## karan21

Can anyone tell me any rocket motors or engines developed by Pakistan which are capable for an ICBM?? For example India in 1990 wanted to quickly develop an ICBM called surya by using the vikas engine, which is a non cryogenic rocket engine. But instead we chose to build up long range missiles gradually. 

I dont know Pak's capability in building rocket engines for long range missiles.

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## Safriz

^^ I dont think Pakistan will risk disclosing any such capability...There will be torrent of embargoes on Pakistan.

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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> Can anyone tell me any rocket motors or engines developed by Pakistan which are capable for an ICBM?? For example India in 1990 wanted to quickly develop an ICBM called surya by using the vikas engine, which is a non cryogenic rocket engine. But instead we chose to build up long range missiles gradually.
> 
> I dont know Pak's capability in building rocket engines for long range missiles.



Buddy, other than the cryogenic engine, most are *now* being manufactured locally. We are also going down the same path. Atmospheric re-insertion (maneuverability) work is ongoing and is progressing pretty decently.

Just so that you know, full time efforts are also on for Cryogenic engine, however, you know the nature of Pakistan's disclosures, they won't be announcing anything soon. Just like you got 11 samples from Russia, we have a couple of our own!

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## karan21

Safriz said:


> ^^ I dont think Pakistan will risk disclosing any such capability...There will be torrent of embargoes on Pakistan.



But still who are the rocket engineers of Pakistan's recent missiles?? Where is all this job done??? Kuch to batao:lol


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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> ^^ I dont think Pakistan will risk disclosing any such capability...There will be torrent of embargoes on Pakistan.



Nah, you don't have to announce that it's an ICBM. Just complete the hardware for orbit insertion, (ejection and in-orbit maneuverability), and you're done. Voila, you have a working ICBM... Repackaging it is a breeze!



karan21 said:


> But still who are the rocket engineers of Pakistan's recent missiles?? Where is all this job done??? Kuch to batao:lol



LOL.... Do you have any doubts buddy that there aren't *enough* of them around? 

Think again!

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## The Deterrent

Icarus said:


> That's because we only perform public tests when they are needed, in political terms. In reality the missiles have been developed and perfected long before they are tested for the public eyes thus any problems are ironed out during development.



Sir I think you should take this statement of yours back, because it doesn't sounds logical in our case. We have had several COMPLETELY failed and more than a dozen partially failed missile test flights.


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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Buddy, other than the cryogenic engine, most are *now* being manufactured locally. We are also going down the same path. Atmospheric re-insertion (maneuverability) work is ongoing and is progressing pretty decently.
> 
> Just so that you know, full time efforts are also on for Cryogenic engine, however, you know the nature of Pakistan's disclosures, they won't be announcing anything soon. Just like you got 11 samples from Russia, we have a couple of our own!




But does anyone know about Pakistan's top rocket engineers who are designing all this??? 

And what is Pakistan designing cryogenic engine for? Never heard of that???

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## The Deterrent

Icarus said:


> It is widely known that a missile by the name of Taimur with 4500km range is in advanced stages of development. The reason Pakistan does not invest in ICBMs is because we have no aggressive ambitions, our sole reason behind missile development is to act as a safeguard against India and a missile with 3500km range fulfils that objective as it is.



Widely "rumored", rather. The next IRBM(s) don't bear this name (or Tipu for that matter).


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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> But does anyone know about Pakistan's top rocket engineers who are designing all this???
> 
> And what is Pakistan designing cryogenic engine for? Never heard of that???


LOL - There are some other agencies than the ones you heard on this forum, hard at work!


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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Nah, you don't have to announce that it's an ICBM. Just complete the hardware for orbit insertion, (ejection and in-orbit maneuverability), and you're done. Voila, you have a working ICBM... Repackaging it is a breeze!
> 
> 
> 
> LOL.... Do you have any doubts buddy that there aren't *enough* of them around?
> 
> Think again!



Well just wondering because I have always heard about many nuclear engineers from Pak, never heard about any rocket engine engineers. kaha chupa ke rakha hai apne apna vernon vaughn brown 

Pakistan can test an Icbm who cares just test it on low range and call it shaheen 1B or something.

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## Safriz

On kemari harbour i for myself had seen tubular structures being discharged and taken away on army trucks....
It was well known that the tubular structures were rockets/rocket motors which Pakistan bought from ex Sovoet states During the financial crisis of post USSR collapse ,and i am on about 90s,.
we all know that at that time pretty much everything was for sale and many countries obtained "Samples" and diagrams at that time..Pakistan included.

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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> Well just wondering because I have always heard about many nuclear engineers from Pak, never heard about any rocket engine engineers. kaha chupa ke rakha hai apne apna vernon vaughn brown
> 
> Pakistan can test an Icbm who cares just test it on low range and call it shaheen 1B or something.



I wish they name it something local this time. What do you say for "Khalayi Bandook"? 

*Space Gun*


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## karan21

Safriz said:


> On kemari harbour i for myself had seen tubular structures being discharged and taken away on army trucks....
> It was well known that the tubular structures were rockets/rocket motors which Pakistan bought from ex Sovoet states During the financial crisis of post USSR collapse ,and i am on about 90s,.
> we all know that at that time pretty much everything was for sale and many countries obtained "Samples" and diagrams at that time..Pakistan included.



India missed that chance, they had put everything on bid, including secret space capsules. Nasa bought 90% of that stuff, China maybe a few, Indians didn't know that something like this was happening


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## notorious_eagle

karan21 said:


> But still who are the rocket engineers of Pakistan's recent missiles?? Where is all this job done??? Kuch to batao:lol



NESCOM
KRL

Google them and you will get your answers.


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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> On kemari harbour i for myself had seen tubular structures being discharged and taken away on army trucks....
> It was well known that the tubular structures were rockets/rocket motors which Pakistan bought from ex Sovoet states During the financial crisis of post USSR collapse ,and i am on about 90s,.
> we all know that at that time pretty much everything was for sale and many countries obtained "Samples" and diagrams at that time..Pakistan included.


Yara, designing a cryogenic engine or getting one to copy is not an issue. Biggest issue in cryogenic engines is the flow rate, oxidizer ratios, metallurgical properties and a whole lotta more shite, which can only come by experimenting. It's a very precise science, can not be just COPIED or read of the pages of a manual. However, not to distress, we are OK!

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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> I wish they name it something local this time. What do you say for "Khalayi Bandook"?
> 
> *Space Gun*



Lol kya farak padta hai, yeh missiles just naam ki hi hai, chalni to hai nahi kabhi 

These missiles will nevr get any action, bas reh jayega to bas naam.

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## Hyperion

notorious_eagle said:


> NESCOM
> KRL
> 
> Google them and you will get your answers.


I know exactly what he is asking about, and they can't be found at KRL nor NESCOM! 



karan21 said:


> Lol kya farak padta hai, yeh missiles just naam ki hi hai, chalni to hai nahi kabhi
> 
> These missiles will nevr get any action, bas reh jayega to bas naam.



Dude, India and Pakistan are so FURKED. Nations have mastered ion engines, and we are still stuck on shitty combustion engines!

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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Yara, designing a cryogenic engine or getting one to copy is not an issue. Biggest issue in cryogenic engines is the flow rate, oxidizer ratios, metallurgical properties and a whole lotta more shite, which can only come by experimenting. It's a very precise science, can not be just COPIED or read of the pages of a manual. However, not to distress, we are OK!



Lol be like India. We imported some from Russia due to denial of tot, the entire world knew we will copy them. Now we have our own. Who cares about sanctions.

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## Safriz

Hyperion said:


> Yara, designing a cryogenic engine or getting one to copy is not an issue. Biggest issue in cryogenic engines is the flow rate, oxidizer ratios, metallurgical properties and a whole lotta more shite, which can only come by experimenting. It's a very precise science, can not be just COPIED or read of the pages of a manual. However, not to distress, we are OK!



actually we are more than ok...We didnt start from scratch,we had much Soviet stuff to work on,and an abundent supply of Aerospace engineers who studied in Russia..Remember the 90s craze of going Russia for studies?

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## The Deterrent

karan21 said:


> But still who are the rocket engineers of Pakistan's recent missiles?? Where is all this job done??? Kuch to batao:lol



NESCOM (National Engineering & Scientific Commission) and its subsidiaries. The most advanced technological work which is being done in Pakistan, is done there. Trust me, there are BRILLIANT minds working there, its just that the Military wants everything to be a secret. The advantage of this approach is that India does not fully understands the robustness of Pakistan's Missile and Nuclear Arsenal.

*NESCOM:*

1. NDC (National Development Complex) is the largest contributor, credited for the development of complete Ghaznavi, Shaheen-I, Shaheen-IA, Shaheen-II, Nasr and Babur Missile Systems. It has also produced Re-entry Vehicles for Abdali and Ghauri Missiles. 

2. AWC (Air Weapons Complex) developed the Ra'ad ALCM in collaboration with NDC.

3. PMO (Project Managment Organization) develops the conventional warheads of some missiles, alongwith other conventional munitions (not related to Missile Systems).

4. ME (Margalla Electronics) fulfill the requirements of onboard electronics of some systems, however their contribution is not known.

Apart from NESCOM, KRL (Khan Research Laboratories) produces Ghauri Missiles. While SUPARCO did the work on Hatf-I and Hatf-II Abdali SRBMs.

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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> actually we are more than ok...We didnt start from scratch,we had much Soviet stuff to work on,and an abundent supply of Aerospace engineers who studied in Russia..Remember the 90s craze of going Russia for studies?


Nahin meri jaan. The engine we are all talking about is a highly "controlled" item. These engines you don't find lying around. *The very first thing* that is secured after a nation falls* is this particular engine* and after that any loose nukes. We have a couple samples, but they are not from Russia!


----------



## Safriz

AhaseebA said:


> NESCOM (National Engineering & Scientific Commission) and its subsidiaries. The most advanced technological work which is being done in Pakistan, is done there. Trust me, there are BRILLIANT minds working there, its just that the Military wants everything to be a secret. The advantage of this approach is that India does not fully understands the robustness of Pakistan's Missile and Nuclear Arsenal.
> 
> *NESCOM:*
> 
> 1. NDC (National Development Complex) is the largest contributor, credited for the development of complete Ghaznavi, Shaheen-I, Shaheen-IA, Shaheen-II, Nasr and Babur Missile Systems. It has also produced Re-entry Vehicles for Abdali and Ghauri Missiles.
> 
> 2. AWC (Air Weapons Complex) developed the Ra'ad ALCM in collaboration with NDC.
> 
> 3. PMO (Project Managment Organization) develops the conventional warheads of some missiles, alongwith other conventional munitions (not related to Missile Systems).
> 
> 4. ME (Margalla Electronics) fulfill the requirements of onboard electronics of some systems, however their contribution is not known.
> 
> Apart from NESCOM, KRL (Khan Research Laboratories) produces Ghauri Missiles. While SUPARCO did the work on Hatf-I and Hatf-II Abdali SRBMs.



Haseeb..do you work for wartsila Pakistan?
I think i know you...


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## The Deterrent

Safriz said:


> Haseeb..do you work for wartsila Pakistan?
> I think i know you...



Nope 
I would be busted if I did.


----------



## karan21

Hyperion said:


> I know exactly what he is asking about, and they can't be found at KRL nor NESCOM!
> 
> 
> 
> *Dude, India and Pakistan are so FURKED. Nations have mastered ion engines, and we are still stuck on shitty combustion engines! *



FYI India has tested its ion engine successfully, in 2010. 
Deccan Herald - ISRO working on spacecraft engine
But yes screw these ICBMs. You build them, name them and store them, useless junk. 
I would be happy when Pakistan builds a slv. Even if it has non cryogenic combustion engine, still is very effective in keeping eye across the border.

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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> FYI India has tested its ion engine successfully, in 2010.
> Deccan Herald - ISRO working on spacecraft engine
> But yes screw these ICBMs. You build them, name them and store them, useless junk.
> I would be happy when Pakistan builds a slv. Even if it has non cryogenic combustion engine, still is very effective in keeping eye across the border.



Yara, SLV is a piece of cake, even by our standards. The main aim is GSLV, now that is where we need to focus. By the way, what's the failure rate (simulated) of the new Indian CE -- thrust parameters????? I heard it's working pretty decently!


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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Yara, SLV is a piece of cake, even by our standards. The main aim is GSLV, now that is where we need to focus. By the way, what's the failure rate (simulated) of the new Indian CE -- thrust parameters????? I heard it's working pretty decently!



Well I read Isro annual reports, and all news regarding it, but never found any information about the individual parameters of the engine, which are over 500. They say it's working satisfactory, means many things went wrong  but its still working and blasting out thrust. Mk3 will show the real Indian beast. fingers crossed.

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## Awesome

indianrabbit said:


> Pakistan has a philosophy that all development test are part of development and not failures, hence they do not report any failed test. This makes some people believe that there are no failures.
> 
> Pakistan has only modified little bit the missiles they got from NK and China.
> 
> The only drive to extend the range to 3500 never worked. Forget about ICBM.



Typical Indian arrogance.

All these multi-Phd holders, Suparco, Nescom, KRL type organizations employing top minds and degree holders from everywhere are just running for show to fool people while we buy off the shelf products and just test them and go wheeeeeeee.

Keep believing that.

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## Mitro

In one of the interview Dr Samar MUbarak Mand said they are only focusing for satelite manufacturing and not worried about launching vehicle .i think pakistan has the capacity to build launch vehicle or may be already have it but because of the political mess and geopolitical problem they don't want to show the world their capability .
In one ISPR documantory they showed Shaheen III with 4500 range.
SO i personally think Pakistan is fully capable on manufacturing ICBM with 10000 Kilometer range and with MIRV technology.
Pakistan had already install their Submarine with SLCM with the range of 1500 kilometer 

Experts Wary of Pakistan Nuke Claims | Defense News | defensenews.com


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## humanfirst

Guys what is the longest range missile pakistan ever tested?


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## regular

2500Kms for Shaheen II.......is the longest range we tested so far.......

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## pilli

Pakistan has missiles better than Agni . Its only pressure form NATO that is restricting to conduct a test .

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## regular

Yea! I guess You are right about our test restrictions and hurdles from the international community.....


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## veekysingh

Czar786 said:


> In one of the interview Dr Samar MUbarak Mand said they are only focusing for satelite manufacturing and not worried about launching vehicle .i think pakistan has the capacity to build launch vehicle or may be already have it but because of the political mess and geopolitical problem they don't want to show the world their capability .
> In one ISPR documantory they showed Shaheen III with 4500 range.
> SO i personally think Pakistan is fully capable on manufacturing ICBM with 10000 Kilometer range and with MIRV technology.
> *Pakistan had already install their Submarine with SLCM with the range of 1500 kilometer *
> 
> Experts Wary of Pakistan Nuke Claims | Defense News | defensenews.com



you kidding me?



pilli said:


> Pakistan has missiles better than Agni . Its only pressure form NATO that is restricting to conduct a test .



yeah sure , n u belong to mars


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## SHAMK9

veekysingh said:


> you kidding me?


no one is kidding you.




veekysingh said:


> yeah sure , n u belong to mars


sure, why not

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## Ticker

veekysingh said:


> you kidding me?
> 
> yeah sure , *n u belong to mars*



No we don't belong to Mars. 

But somebody was saying that Indians were supposed to go there.

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## Thorough Pro

LOL..........




karan21 said:


> But still who are the rocket engineers of Pakistan's recent missiles?? Where is all this job done??? Kuch to batao:lol



Why are you so persistent on finding out where all this work is done? to assign another TTP attack team?




karan21 said:


> But does anyone know about Pakistan's top rocket engineers who are designing all this???
> 
> And what is Pakistan designing cryogenic engine for? Never heard of that???

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## Thorough Pro

Completing the last sentense. "bas reh jayega to sirf naam india ka inkay chalnay kay baad."




karan21 said:


> Lol kya farak padta hai, yeh missiles just naam ki hi hai, chalni to hai nahi kabhi
> 
> These missiles will nevr get any action, bas reh jayega to bas naam.


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## OrionHunter

Aeronaut said:


> *It will allow us to strike targets on long ranges.*


Agreed! But what are the targets? I see only one and that is Israel. 

Is it therefore cost effective or is it just an ego problem? Like, "You have it, so do we!" But does it fit into the overall war doctrine? It seems to encompass half the goddamn world! 

Now some worthy will come out here and say that India is building an 8000 km ICBM too. But it fits into India's doctrine that includes covering a potential adversary in China.


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## RazPaK

OrionHunter said:


> Agreed! But what are the targets? I see only one and that is Israel.
> 
> Is it therefore cost effective or is it just an ego problem? Like, "You have it, so do we!" But does it fit into the overall war doctrine? It seems to encompass half the goddamn world!
> 
> Now some worthy will come out here and say that India is building an 8000 km ICBM too. But it fits into India's doctrine that includes covering a potential adversary in China.



You are not as naive as you depict yourself. For developing nations there is no target and all targets.


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## Last Hope

OrionHunter said:


> Agreed! But what are the targets? I see only one and that is Israel.
> *
> Is it therefore cost effective or is it just an ego problem? Like, "You have it, so do we!" But does it fit into the overall war doctrine? It seems to encompass half the goddamn world! *
> 
> Now some worthy will come out here and say that India is building an 8000 km ICBM too. But it fits into India's doctrine that includes covering a potential adversary in China.



If it were that way, we would also be acquiring Air-Craft-Carrier(s) as our neighbors and enemies operate them. 

The longer-range and larger yield missiles you have, the less the chances for direct attack. Nuclear weapons are made more to be used as defensive assets to stop war than assets to wage a war.

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## Hyperion

OrionHunter said:


> Agreed! But what are the targets? I see only one and that is Israel.
> 
> Is it therefore cost effective or is it just an ego problem? Like, "You have it, so do we!" But does it fit into the overall war doctrine? It seems to encompass half the goddamn world!
> 
> Now some worthy will come out here and say that India is building an 8000 km ICBM too. But it fits into India's doctrine that includes covering a potential adversary in China.



Dude, you're really an intelligent guy. What sort of question is that?

There are no permanent allies or enemies, just permanent national interests. Unless we have the 'complete' capability to inflict incalculable damage, and until the adversary is assured that we are complete nut-cases about integrity of Pakistan, only then will equilibrium and peace be achieved.

Btw, we already graduated the Indian midterm exam. ICBM is neither India centric, nor is it being designed to compete with India.

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## Dr. Strangelove

Hyperion said:


> Dude, you're really an intelligent guy. What sort of question is that?
> 
> There are no permanent allies or enemies, just permanent national interests. Unless we have the 'complete' capability to inflict incalculable damage, and until the adversary is assured that we are complete nut-cases about integrity of Pakistan, only then will equilibrium and peace be achieved.
> 
> Btw, we already graduated the Indian midterm exam. ICBM is neither India centric, nor is it being designed to compete with India.



all these icbms will just rust if they exist no one is gonna use them


----------



## AirDefence

Pakistan will take more than a decade to develop these kind of sophisticated ballistic missiles and navigation systems .
An ICBM needs a pin point navigation systems , mordern sensors , satellites , GPS systems etc etc
US will not let you use NAVISTOR against Israil nd neither you can use Russian 
GLONASS . So what are you going to do . .
JUST DREAMING . . . .
GROW UP . .


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## Dr. Strangelove

mrPERFECT said:


> Pakistan will take more than a decade to develop these kind of sophisticated ballistic missiles and navigation systems .
> An ICBM needs a pin point navigation systems , mordern sensors , satellites , GPS systems etc etc
> US will not let you use NAVISTOR against Israil nd neither you can use Russian
> GLONASS . So what are you going to do . .
> JUST DREAMING . . . .
> GROW UP . .




it will no take decades first it can be accomplished in 7 to 9 years
and what about chinese 
everything else about israel is bullshit its already within our range before commenting at least
please search about thing first

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## hunter_hunted

wasm95 said:


> it will no take decades first it can be accomplished in 7 to 9 years
> and what about chinese
> everything else about israel is bullshit its already within our range before commenting at least
> please search about thing first



Well searching might not be one of his attributes


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## KI[[ER

regular said:


> 2500Kms for Shaheen II.......is the longest range we tested so far.......


This even can not hit my current city(Bangalore). what about most southern part of India?


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## mjnaushad

'KI[[ER said:


> This even can not hit my current city(Bangalore). what about most southern part of India?



because we dont want to hit Bangalore....we have a cricket match there

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## SHAMK9

'KI[[ER said:


> This even can not hit my current city(Bangalore). what about most southern part of India?


You can thank us any time you want for that


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## mjnaushad

news shared in 2010....today its 2012 .... and in 7 days 2013

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## KI[[ER

SHAMK9 said:


> You can thank us any time you want for that


you have saved our four more city then.
Thanks for your kindness

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## SHAMK9

'KI[[ER said:


> you have saved our four more city then.
> Thanks for your kindness


welcome

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## Slayer786

These missiles are not be used to hit anyone. It is just a safeguard against anyone thinking of attacking us. So Indians can go sleep peacefully. Remember the MAD doctrine.


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## Pak47

'KI[[ER said:


> This even can not hit my current city(Bangalore). what about most southern part of India?



Lol!!


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## MZUBAIR

mrPERFECT said:


> Pakistan will take more than a decade to develop these kind of sophisticated ballistic missiles and navigation systems .
> An ICBM needs a pin point navigation systems , mordern sensors , satellites , GPS systems etc etc
> US will not let you use NAVISTOR against Israil nd neither you can use Russian
> GLONASS . So what are you going to do . .
> JUST DREAMING . . . .
> GROW UP . .



And you still dreaming some one smashed you in 2008 and u were failed to trigger ......Wt was the pressure?
Some one took 25% of Kashmir [Called Azad Kashmir], u were failed to trigger ....Wt was the pressure?
Some one knocked u in Kargil, u failed to trigger ......Wt was the pressure ?


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## Juice

Seriously ....what diff does it make in real terms. Besides make you a target.

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## Don Jaguar

MZUBAIR said:


> Some one took 25% of Kashmir [Called Azad Kashmir]



Pakistani administrated kashmir is 38% of the total kashmir, India has 43% and China has 19% of it.



Juice said:


> Seriously ....what diff does it make in real terms. Besides make you a target.



Pakistan will make missiles up to 14000 km range.

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## Don Jaguar

Juice said:


> Seriously ....what diff does it make in real terms. Besides make you a target.



We are already a target, It will boost our defence capabilities.


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## Kashmiri Nationalist

Don Jaguar said:


> Pakistani administrated kashmir is 38% of the total kashmir, India has 43% and China has 19% of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan will make missiles up to 14000 km range.



You forgot to factor in G&B into your equation.

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## Don Jaguar

Kashmiri Nationalist said:


> You forgot to factor in G&B into your equation.



Nahi yar we call it european kashmir.


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## AUz

'KI[[ER said:


> This even can not hit my current city(Bangalore). what about most southern part of India?



Retarded, 2500KM Shaheen-II equipped with one ton of nuclear warhead can hit *A N Y.... P O I N T* in your gaaan..oh i mean hindustan...

Bother to read map sometime

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## ARSENAL6

Aeronaut said:


> Evidence?
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know that??
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence?
> 
> 
> Would be too late.
> 
> Maybe because they fail so often?



Aeronaut like Most Hindustani Bhartis they are jealous and they know that their country is a complete Fail state.

Thats why they rack their little minds, so hard, to insult anyone whos better than them whilst they burn inside in jealousy. Making fun at them is becoming such a hobby.


----------



## PiyaraPakistan

'KI[[ER said:


> This even can not hit my current city(Bangalore). what about most southern part of India?



A Pakistani missile launched from shoaib Malik's Bat hit *Bangalore* last night, Now tell me honestly kitna damage hua hai?

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## Alpha1

PiyaraPakistan said:


> A Pakistani missile launched from shoaib Malik's Bat hit *Bangalore* last night, Now tell me honestly kitna damage hua hai?



well a man died because of heart attack watching the match! They hate pakistan so much they cant tolerate us winning!
Apart from that! taimoor is another great slap! It has 2000km more range then agni 5

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## KI[[ER

PiyaraPakistan said:


> A Pakistani missile launched from shoaib Malik's Bat hit *Bangalore* last night, Now tell me honestly kitna damage hua hai?


Please remind me last time when you a the match against India apart from yesterday.It would be great if you remember your past.
and frankly speaking most of the people in India are not following this series.


----------



## Xracer

'KI[[ER said:


> This even can not hit my current city(Bangalore). what about most southern part of India?


yo bro i have a Christmas present for you search again our missiles cover your entire Indian Territory and also Covers Israeli

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## S.Y.A

'KI[[ER said:


> It would be good if you do not give us lecture about tolerance. Whole world know how much tolerance you have.
> Brother we know your capability and capacity. Pakistanis are master in paint Job so your missile can have 10000 KM more range then Agni 5



well it is better to paint job it and have in the inventory quickly rather than re-invent the wheel, take years and have dozens of failed tests before the thing is made operational

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## Alpha1

'KI[[ER said:


> It would be good if you do not give us lecture about tolerance. Whole world know how much tolerance you have.
> Brother we know your capability and capacity. Pakistanis are master in paint Job so your missile can have 10000 KM more range then Agni 5



we knw what tolerant demoncrazy india is! 
For the first time, securitymen kill more civilians than terrorists in J&K - Times Of India

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## regular

'KI[[ER said:


> This even can not hit my current city(Bangalore). what about most southern part of India?


Yea I know because we don't want to hit your home cuz we care about you so much......


----------



## posedion

IceCold said:


> Its not like we are looking for trouble but there are somethings, countries apart India who have threatened Pakistan, even threaten to bomb it back to stone age. Maybe its for them, so they understand "Do not cross the red line".




Ha ha ha you mean amrica pray that they don't take their comment of "stone age" really seriously the day they will surely you will be in one and the time it will take them is a day and a night I mean 24 hours.


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## posedion

AUz said:


> Retarded, 2500KM Shaheen-II equipped with one ton of nuclear warhead can hit *A N Y.... P O I N T* in your gaaan..oh i mean hindustan...
> 
> Bother to read map sometime



Bravo Bravo world is looking towards Asia for the next great leap here we are threatening to wipe out each other. When will these kiddish mentalities go when will we as nations grow up and try to leave with peace with each other. 

Peace is not an obligation it is a necessity



PiyaraPakistan said:


> A Pakistani missile launched from shoaib Malik's Bat hit *Bangalore* last night, Now tell me honestly kitna damage hua hai?



Many Indians love the sheer talent Pakistani cricketers have, as cricket lover the more good cricketers the better for the game.

Who can deny the talent of a Hafeez or a Ajmal similarly real Pakistani cricket fan will feel same about yuvi or sewhag and sachin.

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## PakShah

foxhound said:


> Salaam....interesting article
> 
> 
> ref:ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily
> *ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway*Headlines Thursday, August 13th, 2009
> Pr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Technology to cover range of 7,000 Kms,* Pakistan, to increase its defensive capabilities, has started preparing intercontinental missile with a range of 7000 kilometres.
> 
> *According to sources, the intercontinental missile has a range of 7000 kilometres and is capable of hitting its target falling within its range. The missile can contain nuclear as well as traditional warheads. The missile has been termed a significant milestone for the defence of the country and is believed to strengthen the defence. According to sources, the missile would soon be test fired.*
> PAF to get airborne refullers next year: Pakistan Air Force plans to induct four Chinese airborne refullers next year, in a move to counter the Indian Air Forces enhanced capabilities after New Delhi acquired six similar aircraft, an Indian news agency quoted the PAF chief as saying.
> 
> Air Chief Marshal Qamar Suleman underlined that the airborne refullers were necessary to match the IAF capabilities.
> 
> This is an absolutely new capability which we are inducting. We never had this capability in the PAF, Suleman added, maintaining, in order to match the IAFs acquisition of the first of three Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), the PAF would receive four Chinese systems between 2011 and 2012.
> 
> He also termed as alarming the IAFs intention of purchasing 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, saying Pakistan needed to have something matching.
> 
> Short URL: ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily



Terribly overdue. We should have gotten an ICBM many years ago.


----------



## IceCold

posedion said:


> Ha ha ha you mean amrica pray that they don't take their comment of "stone age" really seriously the day they will surely you will be in one and the time it will take them is a day and a night I mean 24 hours.



You don't need to be the mouth piece for the US of A and neither do you need tell us the consequences of a war with a super power. But since you already did do you expect that a Nation should sit idly while being threaten to be bombed back to stone age and wait for it to actually happen.


----------



## AUz

posedion said:


> Bravo Bravo world is looking towards Asia for the next great leap here we are threatening to wipe out each other. When will these kiddish mentalities go when will we as nations grow up and try to leave with peace with each other.
> 
> Peace is not an obligation it is a necessity



I'm all for peace between India and Pakistan on equal basis. Resolve Kashmir and other key issues...and we can be good neighbors!


Many Indians love the sheer talent Pakistani cricketers have, as cricket lover the more good cricketers the better for the game.

Who can deny the talent of a Hafeez or a Ajmal similarly real Pakistani cricket fan will feel same about yuvi or sewhag and sachin.


----------



## posedion

AUz said:


> I'm all for peace between India and Pakistan on equal basis. Resolve Kashmir and other key issues...and we can be good neighbors!
> 
> 
> Bhai whatever has happened I doubt that would ever change there are enough vested interests on both sides to keep the issue burning for another thousand years only common people can bring in some common sense

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## posedion

IceCold said:


> You don't need to be the mouth piece for the US of A and neither do you need tell us the consequences of a war with a super power. But since you already did do you expect that a Nation should sit idly while being threaten to be bombed back to stone age and wait for it to actually happen.



Not to sit idly but to build a better Sub continent grow our economies educate more people. Than Probably US and A can be tackled today both our economies just simply depend on uncle sam, They need not bomb us to stone age we our self are in one with our mentalities

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## Gentelman

'KI[[ER said:


> Please remind me last time when you a the match against India apart from yesterday.It would be great if you remember your past.
> and frankly speaking most of the people in India are not following this series.



ohhh dude u wanna remember the matchs won by Pakistan??
ohhh boy just chk out the ICC cricket record of matches b/w Pak/India..
u will get your answer....
sleep tight after getting World cup...

well no sign of incucing or conducting ICBM test for atleast 3 years.....
long way to go.....in terrorism war and economic development....
its not a right time to conduct any test for Pakistan......

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## IceCold

posedion said:


> Not to sit idly but to build a better Sub continent grow our economies educate more people. Than Probably US and A can be tackled today both our economies just simply depend on uncle sam, They need not bomb us to stone age we our self are in one with our mentalities



A good economy is not possible without a strong deterrent to protect it

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## posedion

IceCold said:


> A good economy is not possible without a strong deterrent to protect it



My friend What better deterrent than self reliant nation, I hope both of our countries bury age old problems and start new ,definitely people of both nations deserve better life.

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## MatrixTMN

Congrats to Pakistan. Awesome news for them.


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## nafsiati

India tested their inter-continental missile with a range greater than 5000 so i want to know that inter-continental missiles with so much ranges are assisted by satellites for their GPS marking and pin point accuracy so does India used the satellite navigation for their missiles? and does India have that advanced satellites to guide the inter-continental missiles? or if not then how come India tested such an inter-continental range missile without satellite guidance?
Secondly Pakistan has sent its satellite last year and this year she is also planning to send another satellite in space with Chinese help so my second question is that does Pakistani satellites have the capability to navigate its (under development) inter-continental missiles or if not then the next satellite to be launched in 2013 have the capability to guide its missiles?? Please share your knowledge with us mods


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## Mani2020

IceCold said:


> A good economy is not possible without a strong deterrent to protect it



well i think its other way around but at the same time i confess that its too late for us now to solely focus on economy while ignoring or putting a side our defence needs as it will further push us back in the race where already we are the last runners and playing a catching up game which might will remain so for so many years to come........better if the economy thing was focused back in 50s ,now its a two edge sword


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## MST

Why does Pakistan need a ICBM. If they fire an ICBM it will fly across India and fall in Bangladesh worse it may fall in China. Why would Pakistan want that. Unless you guys are making a 15K Km missile I see no point making an ICBM for you.


----------



## T-Rex

MST said:


> Why does Pakistan need a ICBM. If they fire an ICBM it will fly across India and fall in Bangladesh worse it may fall in China. Why would Pakistan want that. Unless you guys are making a 15K Km missile I see no point making an ICBM for you.


*

Why does india need ICBM? It will fly over China and fall in Russia!!!!! This douchbag has a valid reason indeed! He doesn't know that what goes around comes around, a true bharati intellectual.*

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## S.Y.A

Mani2020 said:


> well i think its other way around but at the same time i confess that its too late for us now to solely focus on economy while ignoring or putting a side our defence needs as it will further push us back in the race where already we are the last runners and playing a catching up game which might will remain so for so many years to come........better if the economy thing was focused back in 50s ,now its a two edge sword



back then and till now our leaders were busy fighting seats and power


----------



## MST

T-Rex said:


> *
> 
> Why does india need ICBM? It will fly over China and fall in Russia!!!!! This douchbag has a valid reason indeed! He doesn't know that what goes around comes around, a true bharati intellectual.*



Who else but a waanabe Pakistani Bangladeshi took offence of my post directed to Pakistanis. Well I actually asked a geniue question. 

Now tell me they didn't they teach you geography in Madarsa? 
Check the distance between southern tip of India and Beijing and tell how far it is. India will need to deploy its nuclear missiles down south to have a credible second strike capability. Now smart guy tell me how far is Delhi from the farthest corner of Pakistan. So to hit Delhi where are they going to launch the ICBM from, Saudi Arabia?

And stop using bold. I am sure your Pakistani masters will be fine even if you write in simple fonts. Its not like they are going to welcome you to Pakistan if you write in Bold.


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## Armstrong

So @Hyperion is it hard for us to go from 2500-3000 km ranged missile to an ICBM of around 5-6000 km if not more ?

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## Hyperion

Yes it is extremely hard. However, we can do it now (since only 4 years). No it's not Tipu.



Armstrong said:


> So @Hyperion is it hard for us to go from 2500-3000 km ranged missile to an ICBM of around 5-6000 km if not more ?

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> Yes it is extremely hard. However, we can do it now (since only 4 years). No it's not Tipu.



I'm guessing you can't just use more composites & less metal, better quality fuel & not PSO, to increase the range !  

So why is it 'extremely hard' ?  

Shouldn't be able to build up on what you learned previously by incorporating better metallurgy, better fuel & perhaps a better power pack - Toshiba kiii battery nahin chaleiii giii ?

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## Peaceful Civilian

We don't need ICBM.


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## Hyperion

1. Powerful engines.
2. Stage(s) integration (needs to be tested - did you notice we never tested any thing above stage one?).
3. Different kind of guidance system. (completely different. LRG/Stellar - very very very few countries have been able to master it)
4. Orbital insertion -> warhead separation -> oribital-reinsertion (physics / design / metallurgy etc etc)
6. Flight computers (flight + terminal) > No you cant stick an intel in it.
5. Telemetry.

Sorry to bust your bubble yara, it's not like throwing something into suborbital/orbital space and then wishing it would fall on your enemy (Iran). Or putting a compass in it and wishing it would recognize continents (N.Korea/Iran). 

Btw, I have just mentioned the layman's version of what is required. If you get into even one critical part of it, it will take years upon years to explain it to you. It's tough. Unimaginably tough. However, I know the guys who are on it, they have done it before! 



Armstrong said:


> I'm guessing you can't just use more composites & less metal, better quality fuel & not PSO, to increase the range !
> 
> So why is it 'extremely hard' ?
> 
> Shouldn't be able to build up on what you learned previously by incorporating better metallurgy, better fuel & perhaps a better power pack - Toshiba kiii battery nahin chaleiii giii ?



Neither do we need you. Go suck on a lollipop. 



Peaceful Civlian said:


> We don't need ICBM.

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## IND151

Safriz said:


> *Fitting an additional stage in existing Pakistani missiles and converting them into a longer range ICBM wont be that difficult..*Plus Pakistan always had the capability of building Long range missiles,but both countries willingly didn't extend the range of their missiles so that far flung countries such as israel don't feel intimidated.



It will be.

adding third stage will increase weight of missile.To overcome this, you will need modified perhaps redesigned first and second stage with more propellant and thrust.

*The other option will be using a much more powerful propellant producing at least 30-40% more thrust and use of composite motors and stages (assuming Shaheen 2 uses metal stages and motors) 
*
These tasks are very hard. Apart from that you would also have to remove truss and use closed inter stage along with retro motors.

In either case weight shall increase and Intercontinental range still will not be achieved. There is limit how much you can modify a IRBM.

*Plus if Pak wants MIRV, it will demand a payload of at least 1.2 to 1.4 tons, with apogee of at least 700-800 KM.(Shaheen 2 apogee is 300 KM(max) and even after addition of third stage it will be around 450-480 KM).*

So it will be far logical for Pak to develop a ICBM from scratch. Off coarse some tech of Shaheen 2 will find its way in new ICBM.

Pak can build ICBM, but it will not be a modified Shaheen 2.

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## Hyperion

It's not just that. There is too much to it than that. 



IND151 said:


> It will be.
> 
> adding third stage will increase weight of missile.To overcome this, you will need modified perhaps first and second stage with more propellant and thrust.
> 
> The other option will be using a much more powerful propellant producing at least 30-40% more thrust


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## The Deterrent

Hyperion said:


> 1. Powerful engines.
> 2. Stage(s) integration (needs to be tested - did you notice we never tested any thing above stage one?).
> 3. Different kind of guidance system. (completely different. LRG/Stellar - very very very few countries have been able to master it)
> 4. Orbital insertion -> warhead separation -> oribital-reinsertion (physics / design / metallurgy etc etc)
> 6. Flight computers (flight + terminal) > No you cant stick an intel in it.
> 5. Telemetry.



1. But thats achievable, provided the funding and will is there.
2. We have, Shaheen-II is two-stage.
3. Shaheen-II employs stellar guidance afaik.
4. Yeah thats definitely difficult.
5. So how advanced do we need? FPGAs are not enough?
6. Been doing that since 2002.

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> 1. Powerful engines.
> 2. Stage(s) integration (needs to be tested - did you notice we never tested any thing above stage one?).
> 3. Different kind of guidance system. (completely different. LRG/Stellar - very very very few countries have been able to master it)
> 4. Orbital insertion -> warhead separation -> oribital-reinsertion (physics / design / metallurgy etc etc)
> 6. Flight computers (flight + terminal) > No you cant stick an intel in it.
> 5. Telemetry.
> 
> Sorry to bust your bubble yara, it's not like throwing something into suborbital/orbital space and then wishing it would fall on your enemy (Iran). Or putting a compass in it and wishing it would recognize continents (N.Korea/Iran).
> 
> Btw, I have just mentioned the layman's version of what is required. If you get into even one critical part of it, it will take years upon years to explain it to you. It's tough. Unimaginably tough. However, I know the guys who are on it, they have done it before!



Khochaa kiya boliiii ! 

So tell me flat out - Do we have an ICBM or do we even have the capability to make one ?  



Hyperion said:


> Neither do we need you. Go suck on a lollipop.



That is so wrong...talking to a woman like that !  

@peaceful Civilian : I apologize Behan ! Hes not been the same guy since they took his appendix out !

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## Hyperion

@Peaceful Civlian, sorry I didn't know you were a lady. I apologize!




@Armstrong, yes we have the capability now, and all nations that need to know, already know about it. 

Very limited tests will be carried out, however, no need as it's a tested system. Just like India's Agni-V worked the very* 'first' *time! 



AhaseebA said:


> 1. But thats achievable, provided the funding and will is there.
> 2. We have, Shaheen-II is two-stage.
> *3. Shaheen-II employs stellar guidance afaik.*
> 4. Yeah thats definitely difficult.
> *5. So how advanced do we need? FPGAs are not enough?
> 6. Been doing that since 2002*.



Not exactly to all of them. However, we are there now.

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> @Armstrong, yes we have the capability now, and all nations that need to know, already know about it.
> 
> Very limited tests will be carried out, however, no need as it's a tested system. Just like India's Agni-V worked the very* 'first' *time!



How far can we hit with it ?  

And what about the MIRV or MRIV or something capability ?

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## Hyperion

From the day you design such a system, it's developed with MIRV in mind. It's always part of the package. You don't plan such a system to send a box-full-of-lollypops, do you? 

Once you reach the markers I mentioned above, ranges become almost irrelevant. 



Armstrong said:


> How far can we hit with it ?
> 
> And what about the MIRV or MRIV or something capability ?

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> From the day you design such a system, it's developed with MIRV in mind. It's always part of the package. You don't plan such a system to send a box-full-of-lollypops, do you?
> 
> Once you reach the markers I mentioned above, ranges become almost irrelevant.



Aaaj lollypops kuch ziyadaa nahin yaaad aa rahiin ?  

Another noob question : Why can't we used this technology & whatever we've learned over the years to build our own SAM system ?

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## Hyperion

SAM require completely different set of expertise. I mean completely different set. I can't even imagine where to begin. Think of it like this, we can't even make 20% of it yet. How is that for national confidence? Don't lecture me about those manpads! 




Armstrong said:


> Aaaj lollypops kuch ziyadaa nahin yaaad aa rahiin ?
> 
> Another noob question : Why can't we used this technology & whatever we've learned over the years to build our own SAM system ?

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## Hyperion

@AhaseebA, mate I can't PM. Answer is no, nothing definite yet.


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## IND151

Hyperion said:


> It's not just that. There is too much to it than that.



Yes. I know. See my edited post.


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## The Deterrent

Hyperion said:


> @AhaseebA, mate I can't PM. Answer is no, nothing definite yet.



Yeah, just realized it. Ahan, thanks anyway

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> SAM require completely different set of expertise. I mean completely different set. I can't even imagine where to begin. Think of it like this, we can't even make 20% of it yet. How is that for national confidence? Don't lecture me about those manpads!



How come India & China can with their Akash & HQ series ?  

The hell were our strategic planners thinking ?

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## Hyperion

Thanks, it's much definite now. Yes, the new system has absolutely nothing to do with Shaheen I or II. It has been designed completely from scratch.



IND151 said:


> Yes. I know. See my edited post.

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## Hyperion

Mate, not the mistake of "strategic planners". Has more to do with "level of education" and research into such stuff. India did the ground work with putting in place a culture of research. We are also doing it now with much less people and resources. It definitely doesn't mean that we can't do it, however, it's taking too much of precious time to cross mundane hurdles. 

In the field of "Radar Research" we are way way behind. 

Factoid: Did you know that in Turkey (ODTU), the foundation of F16 radar lab and then Tübitak radar research labs was put in by 4 Pakistani students. Those labs are now world leaders in such research. 

We are not a nation of stupid people, we have great minds. Problem is that we don't know how to use our talent. Look at myself, I am one of the worlds best in Powder Metallurgy, did anyone contact me yet? 



Armstrong said:


> How come India & China can with their Akash & HQ series ?
> 
> The hell were our strategic planners thinking ?

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## IND151

OrionHunter said:


> Agreed! But what are the targets? I see only one and that is Israel.
> 
> Is it therefore cost effective or is it just an ego problem? Like, "You have it, so do we!" But does it fit into the overall war doctrine? It seems to encompass half the goddamn world!
> 
> *Now some worthy will come out here and say that India is building an 8000 km ICBM too.* But it fits into India's doctrine that includes covering a potential adversary in China.



A 6 has range of 6000 KM and max range will be probably around 6800 KM.

It will not be a 8000 KM range missile.

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## Hyperion

Mate, I think the next logical step would be to go all the way. There are no major 'technical' road blocks to it, then why not?



IND151 said:


> A 6 has range of 6000 KM and max range will be probably around 6800 KM.
> 
> It will not be a 8000 KM range missile.

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## OrionHunter

IND151 said:


> A 6 has range of 6000 KM and max range will be probably around 6800 KM.
> 
> It will not be a 8000 KM range missile.


As per News X, a scientist associated with the project on condition of anonymity *disclosed that the range of the Agni VI would be 10,000 km. However, the officially declared range would be 6000-7000km.
*

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## OrionHunter

Hyperion said:


> We are not a nation of stupid people, we have great minds. Problem is that we don't know how to use our talent. *Look at myself, I am one of the worlds best in Powder Metallurgy, did anyone contact me yet?*


Wow!  Your mobile number and address please. (Don't forget to include your bank account and credit card numbers too!  )

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## Hyperion

Yeah, I was pretty great. However, engineering pays nothing. Left it for real estate development and the moolah! 



OrionHunter said:


> Wow!  Your mobile number and address please. (Don't forget to include your bank account and credit card numbers too!  )

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## OrionHunter

Hyperion said:


> Yeah, I was pretty great. However, engineering pays nothing. Left it for real estate development *and the moolah!*


That's why I wanted your credit card/bank account numbers!!!

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## muhammadharis92

Hyperion said:


> Mate, not the mistake of "strategic planners". Has more to do with "level of education" and research into such stuff. India did the ground work with putting in place a culture of research. We are also doing it now with much less people and resources. It definitely doesn't mean that we can't do it, however, it's taking too much of precious time to cross mundane hurdles.
> 
> In the field of "Radar Research" we are way way behind.
> 
> Factoid: Did you know that in Turkey (ODTU), the foundation of F16 radar lab and then Tübitak radar research labs was put in by 4 Pakistani students. Those labs are now world leaders in such research.
> 
> We are not a nation of stupid people, we have great minds. Problem is that we don't know how to use our talent. Look at myself, I am one of the worlds best in Powder Metallurgy, did anyone contact me yet?



You wouldn't beleive but i logged in to reply you, man first ever person who says something good or something about metallurgy.. Wrna toh Mechanical or Mechanical!!

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## Hyperion

LOL... log in more often then. Why not come and have fun @ NaswarCorner? 




muhammadharis92 said:


> You wouldn't beleive but i logged in to reply you, man first ever person who says something good or something about metallurgy.. Wrna toh Mechanical or Mechanical!!


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## IamINDIA

T-Rex said:


> *The follwoing shows that Pakistan has Tipu-1,2,3 with a range of 8000 km, 9500 km and 13000 km respectively. It also shows drawings of Haider missiles. Are they real or just imagination of some fanboy?*
> 
> World's 4th Most Powerful Country Pakistan (Pakistan Military Power) - YouTube



i can't stop laughing.....


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## Contrarian

Hyperion said:


> Mate, I think the next logical step would be to go all the way. There are no major 'technical' road blocks to it, then why not?



There is no need to cover CONUS in our missile range. Technological advancement does not dictate weapons, political policy does. USA is no threat to us in the foreseeable future. That just paints us as a huge potential threat, and ergo US reactions towards our actions changes.

I think that our first ICBM with a range >7000kms will be on an SLBM deliberately. Because developing it in SLBM along with the boomer itself would take time, decade even.


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## rockstar08

khuda ke wasteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee TIPU ki jaaan chor do ab ..... pakistani ICBM na bana raha hai , aur na uncle sam banane de ga


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## Wolf

Hyperion said:


> Mate, not the mistake of "strategic planners". Has more to do with "level of education" and research into such stuff. India did the ground work with putting in place a culture of research. We are also doing it now with much less people and resources. It definitely doesn't mean that we can't do it, however, it's taking too much of precious time to cross mundane hurdles.
> 
> In the field of "Radar Research" we are way way behind.
> 
> Factoid: Did you know that in Turkey (ODTU), the foundation of F16 radar lab and then Tübitak radar research labs was put in by 4 Pakistani students. Those labs are now world leaders in such research.
> 
> We are not a nation of stupid people, we have great minds. Problem is that we don't know how to use our talent. Look at myself, I am one of the worlds best in Powder Metallurgy, did anyone contact me yet?



Give me your particulars. Your exprtise. Where r u currently. Being in gov. Service. I may be able to help you. Regards

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## Hyperion

Stalker! You came out of hibernation just to comment on that particular post? 

@Oscar @Aeronaut ... save Hypey............ who's this gov agent on the Emperor's arse? 



Wolf said:


> Give me your particulars. Your exprtise. Where r u currently. Being in gov. Service. I may be able to help you. Regards


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## Wolf

Hyperion said:


> Stalker! You came out of hibernation just to comment on that particular post?
> 
> @Oscar @Aeronaut ... save Hypey............ who's this gov agent on the Emperor's arse?



Nice words. Ur choice. U wont hear frm me again. Regards.


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## Hyperion

I was kidding mate. I'm a businessman, and lead a happy content life! 



Wolf said:


> Nice words. Ur choice. U wont hear frm me again. Regards.


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## Wolf

I know u may b sceptical. Wht i can do is to give you my particulars. My contact no. To ward off ur fears. I sit have a km frm the parliament in islamabad. Regardin my hibernation, i beleive in doin something constructive, i m following this forum regularly but i feel the patriotic members of this forum should evolve some physical strategy to translate our emotions and words into visible actions rather than being a silent majority. Regards.

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## Hyperion

Thanks mate, I'll keep your offer in mind. Do keep an eye open for patriotic members, there are many here. May Allah help people such as yourself. 

By the way, this board could also serve as a very unique job portal for members. The variety of people who frequent this forum is off the charts!

@Oscar @Aeronaut : Not a bad idea to have a small dedicated thread !?!? 



Wolf said:


> I know u may b sceptical. Wht i can do is to give you my particulars. My contact no. To ward off ur fears. I sit have a km frm the parliament in islamabad. Regardin my hibernation, i beleive in doin something constructive, i m following this forum regularly but i feel the patriotic members of this forum should evolve some physical strategy to translate our emotions and words into visible actions rather than being a silent majority. Regards.

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## SQ8

Hyperion said:


> In the field of "Radar Research" we are way way behind.
> 
> Factoid: Did you know that in Turkey (ODTU), the foundation of F16 radar lab and then Tübitak radar research labs was put in by 4 Pakistani students. Those labs are now world leaders in such research.
> 
> We are not a nation of stupid people, we have great minds. Problem is that we don't know how to use our talent. Look at myself, I am one of the worlds best in Powder Metallurgy, did anyone contact me yet?



Ill give you another reason that was the prime driver in yours truly's motivation to change his field. Not one, not twice.. but thrice..when asking about why we arent doing something that might be pertinent.. say EM Shielding for say.. the IBMS on the AK or its Radio systems.. And the answer from the people heading or managing such projects.

"India's not doing so we arent either". 

Basically, If tomorrow the Indians decree that none of their engineers are to use the crapper.. ours too will follow them into renal suicide.

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## Viking 63

Pakistan should go for all out ICBM with a range of 12,000 Kilometer range !!! NO holds Bar !! Pakistani ICBM should be able to hit Targets DEEP IN THE USA !!!


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## bolo

Pakistan has a 7000 km range missle. That is more range than the 5000 Agni "China Killer" V.


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## Kompromat

Hyperion said:


> Stalker! You came out of hibernation just to comment on that particular post?
> 
> @Oscar @Aeronaut ... save Hypey............ who's this gov agent on the Emperor's arse?



He's maybe offering you a job in Metallurgy--or maybe something else -- i guess you should take it, you have nothing to fear as you yourself are pretty scary

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## kurup

bolo said:


> *Pakistan has a 7000 km range missle*. That is more range than the 5000 Agni "China Killer" V.



And which missile is that ???


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## sree45

kurup said:


> And which missile is that ???



You donno? Zaid hamid's f**t?


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## shuntmaster

Forget ICBM, I don't think China will ever give Pakistan missile tech over 2,000-2,500kms range. China is OK with Pakistan having IRBM's to contain India, but cannot seriously threaten any major Chinese cities. That is the reason why Pakistan has not tested any missiles after Shaheen-II, with increased range, more than a decade ago.


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## genmirajborgza786

shuntmaster said:


> Forget ICBM, I don't think China will ever give Pakistan missile tech over 2,000-2,500kms range. China is OK with Pakistan having IRBM's to contain India, but cannot seriously threaten any major Chinese cities. That is the reason why Pakistan has not tested any missiles after Shaheen-II, with increased range, more than a decade ago.



oh God not this again, dude for the last time Pakistan have a its own missile manufacturing plant along with its R&D'S, stop repeating the same old rhetoric's of china paint theory, which has been refuted time & time again


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## genmirajborgza786

kurup said:


> And which missile is that ???



Taimur/Tipu ICBM project is believed to be under development 

very little info has been revealed about it

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## kurup

genmirajborgza786 said:


> Taimur/Tipu ICBM project is believed to be under development
> 
> very little info has been revealed about it



I know about Tipu project .

My question was directed at him when he compared a missile that India has tested to something that pakistan is yet to test .


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## genmirajborgza786

kurup said:


> I know about Tipu project .
> 
> My question was directed at him when he compared a missile that India has tested to something that pakistan is yet to test .



I agree comparison leads to flame baits, both India & Pakistan have their own plus & minus points in this field & are striving hard to fulfil their respective requirements , as both have different needs & goals & perspective's in this field

regards


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## kurup

genmirajborgza786 said:


> I agree comparison leads to flame baits, both India & Pakistan have their own plus & minus points in this field & are striving hard to fulfil their respective requirements , as both have different needs & goals & perspective's in this field
> 
> regards



True .

India and Pakistan both have each other completely covered by the missiles .

Any missile with extended range is for threats outside this region and does not concern each other but others .

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## Hyperion

Aggar woh bongi maar raha thaa, tau, kia tumm nay bhee zaroor marni thee? 



kurup said:


> I know about Tipu project .
> 
> My question was directed at him when he compared a missile that India has tested to something that pakistan is yet to test .


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## kurup

Hyperion said:


> Aggar woh bongi maar raha thaa, tau, kia tumm nay bhee zaroor marni thee?



Dude , what is bongi ??

This is my new style of trolling .... 

Ask genuine questions and make them scratch their head rather than an actual head on trolling . You get the satisfaction and not infractions .

Working perfectly for the past few days ......

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## shuntmaster

genmirajborgza786 said:


> oh God not this again, dude for the last time Pakistan have a its own missile manufacturing plant along with its R&D'S, stop repeating the same old rhetoric's of china paint theory, which has been refuted time & time again



Just because Pakistan is assembling the missiles, doesn't mean that the technology is developed in Pakistan. Pakistan hasn't added a single kilometer to the range of the missiles since a decade.
Also, if Pakistan had the basic rocket technology developed for the missiles, it would have been easy to develop it further for SLVs. There is big difference between developing the technology from scratch and just getting it from others. When the technology is developed, there is a complete know-how on the technology and can be further developed and improved.


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## Darth Vader

shuntmaster said:


> Just because Pakistan is assembling the missiles, doesn't mean that the technology is developed in Pakistan. Pakistan hasn't added a single kilometer to the range of the missiles since a decade.
> Also, if Pakistan had the basic rocket technology developed for the missiles, it would have been easy to develop it further for SLVs. There is big difference between developing the technology from scratch and just getting it from others. When the technology is developed, there is a complete know-how on the technology and can be further developed and improved.



Look Who is talking

Missile Technology Control Regime Do You know any thing about it ?Thats why you stuck with brahmos ( Cheap Version ) with less range and payload why their 1 only variant of Your missile Bcz Russia cant sell you Jack
About The SLV Well its Cz of Funds And Only will give a more reason to west to Bash Pakistan 

When Pakistan needs ICBM you will see they already had one all along Only Like Some other Countries ( India ) Pakistan dont brag about the stuff they got
BCz India can only brag Since their Weapons Dont Work or When they Work they blow their own soldiers =))



kurup said:


> Dude , what is bongi ??
> 
> This is my new style of trolling ....
> 
> Ask genuine questions and make them scratch their head rather than an actual head on trolling . You get the satisfaction and not infractions .
> 
> Working perfectly for the past few days ......



Well Here is Your Answer Whats the need For Pakistan to Test it when their will be a need Pakistan will test it
India tested it to Show China
Pakistan's Old missile already cover whole india then whats the need to show off a new weapon system
@Hyperion these guys have a habbit of trolling every thing about Pakistan Its their nature


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## sms

Pakistan Building ICBM... great news. Now they can talk eye to eye with China and raise issue of oppression of Muslim brothers in China!!

Please test it ASAP and save Muslims in China and then you can turn attention to killer regime in Israel.

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## shuntmaster

Darth Vader said:


> Look Who is talking
> 
> Missile Technology Control Regime Do You know any thing about it ?Thats why you stuck with brahmos ( Cheap Version ) with less range and payload why their 1 only variant of Your missile Bcz Russia cant sell you Jack
> About The SLV Well its Cz of Funds And Only will give a more reason to west to Bash Pakistan
> 
> *When Pakistan needs ICBM you will see they already had one all along Only Like Some other Countries ( India ) Pakistan dont brag about the stuff they got*
> BCz India can only brag Since their Weapons Dont Work or When they Work they blow their own soldiers =))
> 
> 
> 
> Well Here is Your Answer Whats the need For Pakistan to Test it when their will be a need Pakistan will test it
> India tested it to Show China
> Pakistan's Old missile already cover whole india then whats the need to show off a new weapon system
> @Hyperion these guys have a habbit of trolling every thing about Pakistan Its their nature



Yeah, we all know it will take Pakistan only as much time for the paint to dry to develop and test a new missile.. And it will be 100% successful the first time and every time.

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## sms

shuntmaster said:


> Yeah, we all know it will take Pakistan only as much time for the paint to dry to develop and test a new missile.. And it will be 100% successful the first time and every time.



Bro please give credit / appreciation where it's necessary. It take lost of guts and political determination, planning to great details to hide ICBM movement and hide it while painting and drying process. 

They did great job in importing, assy (i mean opening crates) and painting by keeping whole world in dark. Please appreciate!! 

On serious note - Pakistan may be in dire need to have long range missiles to keep misadventures in chek from countries like Israel or NATO in case things go South.

I'm all in for strong, united and responsible ASIA!!


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## genmirajborgza786

shuntmaster said:


> Just because Pakistan is assembling the missiles, doesn't mean that the technology is developed in Pakistan. Pakistan hasn't added a single kilometer to the range of the missiles since a decade.
> Also, if Pakistan had the basic rocket technology developed for the missiles, it would have been easy to develop it further for SLVs. There is big difference between developing the technology from scratch and just getting it from others. When the technology is developed, there is a complete know-how on the technology and can be further developed and improved.





shuntmaster said:


> Yeah, we all know it will take Pakistan only as much time for the paint to dry to develop and test a new missile.. And it will be 100% successful the first time and every time.



@AhaseebA this guy seriously needs your attention

@Oscar 

it is beyond my comprehension whether this guy is ultra stubborn or doesn't understands or is he simply here, just to troll, he keeps on repeating the same thing over & over again no ,even if all his posts have been refuted time out & time again



sms said:


> Bro please give credit / appreciation where it's necessary. It take lost of guts and political determination, planning to great details to hide ICBM movement and hide it while painting and drying process.
> 
> They did great job in importing, assy (i mean opening crates) and painting by keeping whole world in dark. Please appreciate!!
> 
> On serious note - Pakistan may be in dire need to have long range missiles to keep misadventures in chek from countries like Israel or NATO in case things go South.
> 
> I'm all in for strong, united and responsible ASIA!!





sms said:


> Pakistan Building ICBM... great news. Now they can talk eye to eye with China and raise issue of oppression of Muslim brothers in China!!
> 
> Please test it ASAP and save Muslims in China and then you can turn attention to killer regime in Israel.



*"Quit trolling"*


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## Darth Vader

shuntmaster said:


> Yeah, we all know it will take Pakistan only as much time for the paint to dry to develop and test a new missile.. And it will be 100% successful the first time and every time.


Dude Their is a saying In urdu Kutte ki dum tedi ki tedi and you are that tail  So you aint worth replying any more Because You dont have any knowledge are you blind ignorant who dont know any thing about and keeps barking Dude its not only you many indians have same problem cant swallow the truth
@genmirajborgza786 ignore him he aint worth any 1s time


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## shuntmaster

Darth Vader said:


> Dude Their is a saying In urdu Kutte ki dum tedi ki tedi and you are that tail  So you aint worth replying any more Because You dont have any knowledge are you blind ignorant who dont know any thing about and keeps barking Dude its not only you many indians have same problem cant swallow the truth
> @genmirajborgza786 ignore him he aint worth any 1s time



If you care do some research, you will find tons of material on the internet regarding the true source of Pakistans missiles..


----------



## Darth Vader

shuntmaster said:


> If you care do some research, you will find tons of material on the internet regarding the true source of Pakistans missiles..



as i said earlier Kutte ki dum tedi ki tedi and you aint worth replying Now dont quote me and stop wasting my time


----------



## sms

shuntmaster said:


> If you care do some research, you will find tons of material on the internet regarding the true source of Pakistans missiles..



Kutte ki dum tedi ki tedi and he ( @Darth Vader ) is that tail. Research nai karega but keep barging for nothing. It's evident and recognized by every one in world that where Pakistan get missiles/ Nukes tech and assy. kits.

But again as I've said before strong Asia will help every one in east t look eye to eye in West and get better results from previously one sided discussion/ meetings/ negotiations.

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## shuntmaster

Darth Vader said:


> as i said earlier Kutte ki dum tedi ki tedi and you aint worth replying Now dont quote me and stop wasting my time


I feel that saying applies more to you, since you do not want to be open minded about what I said, instead of putting on your green colored patriotic goggles and not accepting the facts..


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## HariPrasad

Ok 

When is the first test expected?


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## kurup

Darth Vader said:


> Well Here is Your Answer Whats the need For Pakistan to Test it when their will be a need Pakistan will test it







> India tested it to Show China



No , we tested it to make sure that that it works perfectly and finally to operationalise it .



> Pakistan's Old missile already cover whole india then whats the need to show off a new weapon system



You are answering to something which I did not even asked in the first place .



> @Hyperion these guys have a habbit of trolling every thing about Pakistan Its their nature



Now you are replying to something you have no idea what is being said .


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## genmirajborgza786

HariPrasad said:


> Ok
> 
> When is the first test expected?



don't worry India will be notified just like how India was notified back in 2005 ,when Pakistan to everyone's surprise tested Babur cruise missile


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## HariPrasad

genmirajborgza786 said:


> don't worry India will be notified just like how India was notified back in 2005 ,when Pakistan to everyone's surprise tested Babur cruise missile



Man they will notify just a week ago. I want to know by what time the test is expected?


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## Zarvan

shuntmaster said:


> Just because Pakistan is assembling the missiles, doesn't mean that the technology is developed in Pakistan. Pakistan hasn't added a single kilometer to the range of the missiles since a decade.
> Also, if Pakistan had the basic rocket technology developed for the missiles, it would have been easy to develop it further for SLVs. There is big difference between developing the technology from scratch and just getting it from others. When the technology is developed, there is a complete know-how on the technology and can be further developed and improved.



Pakistan is careful because we don't need them right now but we are working on them and may be the work is complete on different missiles Sir west hates us most Sir they need us now so we are trying to get weapons from them as many as we could and also other trade deals so new longer range missiles could harm these deals so we will test them when we would that is the right time just like our nuclear weapons we already made it in 1984 but tested in 1998


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## kurup

genmirajborgza786 said:


> don't worry India will be notified just like how India was notified back in 2005 ,when Pakistan to everyone's surprise tested Babur cruise missile



There is no treaty between India and Pakistan to notify each other of CM test .



genmirajborgza786 said:


> don't worry India will be notified just like how India was notified back in 2005 ,when Pakistan to everyone's surprise tested Babur cruise missile



There is no treaty between India and Pakistan to notify each other of CM test .


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## genmirajborgza786

HariPrasad said:


> Man they will notify just a week ago. I want to know by what time the test is expected?



sorry I mistook your post the other way

I am not sure, however the main goal is to develop the MRV technology , ICBM is not the main focus, as we have all our targets covered, Shaheen II = 2000-2500 km, Shaheen III 3000-3500km, so in my opinion anything more 4000-4500 km is over reach & not needed


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## HariPrasad

genmirajborgza786 said:


> sorry I mistook your post the other way
> 
> I am not sure, however the main goal is to develop the MRV technology , ICBM is not the main focus, as we have all our targets covered, Shaheen II = 2000-2500 km, Shaheen III 3000-3500km, so in my opinion anything more 4000-4500 km is over reach & not needed




But the thread itself (Since 2010) is on the topic that Pakistan is developing a 7000 KM range ICBM. So More than 4000-4500 km range missile is not needed may be your personal opinion but the fact is that Pakistan is developing a 7000 KM ICBM. Pakistan Must have something else(Except India) in Mind. May be China Or Israel (Not US since 7000 KM is not sufficient to reach US).


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## shuntmaster

genmirajborgza786 said:


> sorry I mistook your post the other way
> 
> I am not sure, however the main goal is to develop the MRV technology , ICBM is not the main focus, as we have all our targets covered, Shaheen II = 2000-2500 km, Shaheen III 3000-3500km, so in my opinion anything more 4000-4500 km is over reach & not needed



There is no Shaheen-III.


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## genmirajborgza786

shuntmaster said:


> There is no Shaheen-III.



& how the bloody hell can you be so damn sure of it ?


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## genmirajborgza786

HariPrasad said:


> But the thread itself (Since 2010) is on the topic that Pakistan is developing a 7000 KM range ICBM. So More than 4000-4500 km range missile is not needed may be your personal opinion but the fact is that Pakistan is developing a 7000 KM ICBM. Pakistan Must have something else(Except India) in Mind. May be China Or Israel (Not US since 7000 KM is not sufficient to reach US).



please pray tell me why on God's green earth would Pakistan want China as its target ? how can you assume something so absurd as this & Pakistan does not have disputes with Israel, as long there is a two state solution, Pakistan does not have any problem with Israel ,Pakistan gives moral support for the establishment of Palestine side by side Israel 
,as for reason Pakistan doesn't need any reason if, Pakistan decides to go for an ICBM it will simply go for it , the main purpose is to master the MRV, MIRV & SLV technology 

the SLV technology development news was given in 2010 





in the pic an official Lady is briefing of SLV the development program 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...e-13-projects-worth-rs-27-62bn-3-years-2.html


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## shuntmaster

genmirajborgza786 said:


> & how the bloody hell can you be so damn sure of it ?



No evidence of it..


----------



## The Deterrent

genmirajborgza786 said:


> @AhaseebA this guy seriously needs your attention
> 
> @Oscar
> 
> it is beyond my comprehension whether this guy is ultra stubborn or doesn't understands or is he simply here, just to troll, he keeps on repeating the same thing over & over again no ,even if all his posts have been refuted time out & time again
> 
> *"Quit trolling"*



We have been clarifying certain facts every now and then, but if someone wants to continue with his rhetoric, we can't help him. No matter their opinions or views, the WMDs work, period.

Developing an ICBM is not a priority of any of the development organizations. The reasons are pretty obvious. For now, in the field of IRBMs, the focus is towards tackling the future BMD of India.

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## Hassan Guy

Yay, can't wait


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## Hassan Guy

Might roll out at the next military parade


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## Peaceful Civilian

Windjammer said:


> A lot of stories are circulating regarding Pakistan's Ballistic Missile capabilities, designations such as Hatf, Shaheen, Ghauri and Babur have virtually become house hold names, but others such as Tipu and Taimur have also have been mentioned in certain circles particularly Taimur, which was even mentioned by Rumsfeld Commission.
> Smoke screen or a raging fire. ?
> 
> http://www.daily.pk/Pakistans-nuclear-arsenal-is-expanding-faster-than-any-other-nations9780/-


Why we need ICBM? We have no enemy other than india . India is already in our range.


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## Hassan Guy

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Why we need ICBM? We have no enemy other than india . India is already in our range.



Yes but ICBM's are MIRV capable.

Once Pakistan gets MIRV capability, the Indians can induct all the interceptors they wan't. But it won't change anything.


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## but-shikan

Hassan Guy said:


> Yes but ICBM's are MIRV capable.
> 
> Once Pakistan gets MIRV capability, the Indians can induct all the interceptors they wan't. But it won't change anything.


Technically any ballistic missile could be armed with MaRV or MiRV warheads.

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## Hassan Guy

but-shikan said:


> Technically any ballistic missile could be armed with MaRV or MiRV warheads.


Not really, I don't think our current Missiles have MIRV capability.


----------



## but-shikan

Hassan Guy said:


> Not really, I don't think our current Missiles have MIRV capability.


I am not saying we have or not but stating you a fact that any ballistic missile could be armed with MaRV or MiRV warheads.

Pakistan is in advance stages to arm SII and SIII with MaRV and MiRV warheads.
Once India inducts reliable anti ballistic missile I am sure we will test our capability like we always did to counter any threats from India.

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## Hassan Guy

but-shikan said:


> I am not saying we have or not but stating you a fact that any ballistic missile could be armed with MaRV or MiRV warheads.
> 
> Pakistan is in advance stages to army SII and SIII with MaRV and MiRV warheads.
> Once India inducts reliable anti ballistic missile I am sure we will test our capability like we always did to counter any threats from India.


They are getting S-400's so it will be more important now. The thing about ICBM's is that they can carry the most.


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## T-Rex

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Why we need ICBM? We have no enemy other than india . India is already in our range.


*
That india is the only threat to Pakistan is the favourite narrative of the friends of uncle sam. It is an illusion created to make Pakistanis feel safe from greater threats. If india was the only threat israel would not have planned to bomb the Pakistani nukes. Matter of fact, india is no threat to Pakistan because india neither has the capabilities to destroy Pakistan without jeopardizing her own existence nor the courage to do irreversible damage to Pakistan. *



Hassan Guy said:


> They are getting S-400's so it will be more important now. The thing about ICBM's is that they can carry the most.


*
Pakistani leaders are not up to the challenge. They don't even dare to test an SLV, let alone an ICBM.*

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## T-Rex

Hassan Guy said:


> Might roll out at the next military parade


*
Your expectation is not realistic.*


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## Suff Shikan

shuntmaster said:


> There is no Shaheen-III.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaheen-III


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## Hassan Guy

T-Rex said:


> *That india is the only threat to Pakistan is the favourite narrative of the friends of uncle sam. It is an illusion created to make Pakistanis feel safe from greater threats. If india was the only threat israel would not have planned to bomb the Pakistani nukes. Matter of fact, india is no threat to Pakistan because india neither has the capabilities to destroy Pakistan without jeopardizing her own existence nor the courage to do irreversible damage to Pakistan. *
> 
> 
> *
> Pakistani leaders are not up to the challenge. They don't even dare to test an SLV, let alone an ICBM.*


lol


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## Reichsmarschall

what are the updates?



shuntmaster said:


> There is no Shaheen-III.


what is this?








Hassan Guy said:


> Not really, I don't think our current Missiles have MIRV capability.


we do have em

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## Safriz

Jon-Snow said:


> what are the updates?
> 
> 
> what is this?
> View attachment 446660
> 
> 
> 
> we do have em


So denial of Shaheen 3 Written in 2016 and Denial of MIRV written in 2013, both comments proved wrong..
Hmmm
Who knows...more such claims also get proven wrong in near future?


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## Mahmood-ur-Rehman

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Why we need ICBM? We have no enemy other than india . India is already in our range.


Then what the America is?



shuntmaster said:


> Just because Pakistan is assembling the missiles, doesn't mean that the technology is developed in Pakistan. Pakistan hasn't added a single kilometer to the range of the missiles since a decade.
> Also, if Pakistan had the basic rocket technology developed for the missiles, it would have been easy to develop it further for SLVs. There is big difference between developing the technology from scratch and just getting it from others. When the technology is developed, there is a complete know-how on the technology and can be further developed and improved.


We have these to burn your ...........


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## AsianLion

While India has one:


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## AUz

Pakistan does not really need an ICBM per say..

A submarine-launched 4000km nuclear ballistic missile with MIRV capability serve the same purpose...

Pakistan needs to have a fleet of 4-6 SSBNs along with 3-5 SSKs all armed with nuclear ballistic and cruise missiles. That would be enough to keep the attackers at bay.

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## LeGenD

Fans of ICBM need to realize that it is really expensive and won't make any difference. For reference: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...missiles-obsolete.540429/page-7#post-10676390



AUz said:


> Pakistan does not really need an ICBM per say..
> 
> A submarine-launched 4000km nuclear ballistic missile with MIRV capability serve the same purpose...
> 
> Pakistan needs to have a fleet of 4-6 SSBNs along with 3-5 SSKs all armed with nuclear ballistic and cruise missiles. That would be enough to keep the attackers at bay.


Can we afford SSBNs?

UK and France operate 3 x SSBN each and only one is active at a time in their case. Look at the size of their economy in GDP as well. Too expensive.

Babur SLCM is OK for our needs.

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## denel

LeGenD said:


> Fans of ICBM need to realize that it is really expensive and won't make any difference. For reference: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...missiles-obsolete.540429/page-7#post-10676390
> 
> 
> Can we afford SSBNs?
> 
> UK and France operate 3 x SSBN each and only one is active at a time in their case. Look at the size of their economy in GDP as well. Too expensive.
> 
> Babur SLCM is OK for our needs.


Not required. You already have Shaheen series/Ababeel + Babur/Raad. Triad is complete.

SSBN are a mother load of a challenge in terms of radiation, fuel maintenance.


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## Vergennes

LeGenD said:


> Fans of ICBM need to realize that it is really expensive and won't make any difference. For reference: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...missiles-obsolete.540429/page-7#post-10676390
> 
> 
> Can we afford SSBNs?
> 
> UK and France operate 3 x SSBN each and only one is active at a time in their case. Look at the size of their economy in GDP as well. Too expensive.
> 
> Babur SLCM is OK for our needs.



Both countries actually operate 4 SSBNs. One permanently at sea to ensure the continuity of the nuclear deterrent and launch missiles in case it receive orders from the President or the Prime Minister for the UK. (Hope this never happens though) More can be deployed in case of increased and serious tensions.


If you want some figures,France spends about €3 to €4 billion each years to maintain its nuclear deterrent force and its two components. (air and naval)

This figure is set to double in the coming years to €6 billion. Having a nuclear deterrent also means keeping it up to date. France will have to spend €37 billion on the next seven years alone to upgrade its nuclear arsenal. The UK is also spending a huge amount of money to update its only naval component. Maintaining such a force require large funds,which Pakistan doesn't have. Let alone about operating 4-6 SSBNs and other fantasies.

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## TheSnakeEatingMarkhur

Windjammer said:


> A lot of stories are circulating regarding Pakistan's Ballistic Missile capabilities, designations such as Hatf, Shaheen, Ghauri and Babur have virtually become house hold names, but others such as Tipu and Taimur have also have been mentioned in certain circles particularly Taimur, which was even mentioned by Rumsfeld Commission.
> Smoke screen or a raging fire. ?
> 
> http://www.daily.pk/Pakistans-nuclear-arsenal-is-expanding-faster-than-any-other-nations9780/-


Hatf is code name Hatf 1 to Hatf 8 and so on. 
Shaheen and Ghaur are Series of Solid and Liquid fueled Blastic Missiles 
Babur and Raad are Cruise Missiles

And Tipu is according to fee sources 4000 km Ballistic Missile while Taimur is 7000 km (no one knows if they are myth of real but they have been mentioned by many sources especially Taimur) 

Other than that there is mention of a 9k and 12k range missiles but no names...


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## Armchair

So, this is my speculation that the subs from China will include 2 SSBNs built loosely on the basis of the same platform. I would imagine they will be armed with something at least with 4000 km range.


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## Sifar zero

__





Redirect Notice






images.app.goo.gl


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## Sifar zero

Army Strategic Forces Command (ASFC) * SUPARCO


Pakistan began developed its first SLV in 1998. On March 2001, Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan announced that Pakistani scientists were in the process of building the country's first Satellite Launch Vehicle (SLV) and that the project had been assigned to SUPARCO.

Dr. Abdul Majid, then-chairman of SUPARCO, confirmed Dr. Khan's statement and said " Pakistan envision a low-cost SLV and Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) in order to launch light-weight satellite into low-earth orbits. Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan also added that" Pakistan has very robust IRBMs which can launch geostationary orbiting satellites.
During the *IDEAS 2002* defense exhibition Pakdef spotted two similar models of Pakistani Satellite Launch Vehicles.

The first model points out a possible three stage of Satellite Launch Vehicle (SLV). Judging from other similar SLV's, it is estimated that it can place a payload weighing around 80-100 kilogram to an orbit 450-490 kilometers above Earth's surface. However the exact data remains unknown.
The second model of the SLV seems similar to the first model however, with four extra boosters ( ? Abdali).

Pakistan successfully test-fired in four times a Shaheen-2 surface-to-surface ballistic missile. It has a range of 2,700 kilometres. It were the first test flights of the two stage solid-fuel Shaheen-2. The Shaheen-2 is the longest-range missile tested by Pakistan so far. Shaheen-2 is not an advanced version of Shaheen-1, which has a range of 700 kilometres.

It is reported that the Shaheen 1 and 2 missiles have been developed by the Pakistan National Defence Complex (PNDC) with assistance from SUPARCO, the Pakistan space research organisation, and from the Atomic Energy Commission.

The Shaheen-1 (Hatf-4) is probably a copy of China's *M-9* export-missile. The Shaheen-2 (Haft-6) is probably a copy of China's two-stage export-missile *M-18*.
The Shaheen-2 uses like the M-18, two aerospace solid rocket motors developed by China Hexi Chemical & Mechanical Company. A relevant motor for the first stage is the *L-SpaB-140B* with diameter of 1.40 m.

The future space launch vehicle *Taimoor* (three stage solid-fuel, diam. 1.40 m) can transport a little scientific payload in a Low Earth Orbit.
Meanwhile, a new Shaheen-III successfully tested in 2015. It is an improved Shaheen-2 with an about 1.7 m stretched first stage. Thus also an increased performance of a satellite-launcher would be possible.






Old models of Pakistani space launchers​
 

*Pakistan have a Space Launch Vehicle !*

*2017, January 24* -- Pakistan has reported the test-launch of a new missile called "Ababeel". The published images documented that is a Shaheen-III missile, on which was added a solid third stage. A fourth stage (space tug) is likely.
As a result, Pakistan now has a SLV for the transport of orbital payloads. The Ababeel (Taimoor) is very similar to the Chinese *Kuaizhou-1A*. It is composed of a Shaheen-III with the two upper stages of the KZ-1A. The performance of the Taimoor corresponds approximately to the Israeli Shavit-2.

*2018, January 30* -- Allegedly on this day a second launch has been made, which have failed.




The fairing has a white color !​


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## arjunk

We will not test or reveal any ICBM until and unless we have any valid threat outside Shaheen-III's range. We already have Israel and India in range and that's already made uncle sam pissy.

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## Zarvan

arjunk said:


> We will not test or reveal any ICBM until and unless we have any valid threat outside Shaheen-III's range. We already have Israel and India in range and that's already made uncle sam pissy.


Sorry to differ, but the moment we come out of grey list of FATF. Pakistan should test ICBM if it's ready. USA and NATO are already a threat, and we need take precautionary measures against them.

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## I S I

kareena kapoor's son is Pakistan's ICBM. Hmm

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## khanmubashir

graphican said:


> We are just doing it for fun..
> 
> Just a thought that ICBM could be enhanced to be used for Space-War, getting down the enemy spy and communication satellites.. but not sure if that is the intention behind that. But in my opinion, instead of ICBMs, we need to produce better and more advanced cruise missiles that could rip the cities within a circle of 3500-4000 KM apart. We don't have anybody to kill beyond this diameter.


If we develop icbm it should. Be light mobile like topol m it midget man 

Btw we can test tech in form if space rockets

This will also give commercial benefits to out rocket program and also improve our strategic capabilities


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## Kompromat

Everyone should know that Pakistan did cross the ICBM development threshold in technology terms. Political conditions however do not require such a weapon to be tested or claimed. The capability exists, and that is what matters.

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## Cool_Soldier

Situation is not favorable at the moment to test ICBM. However, SLV test should be considered soon. That will pave the way for ICBM capability possession.

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Cool_Soldier said:


> Situation is not favorable at the moment to test ICBM. However, SLV test should be considered soon. That will pave the way for ICBM capability possession.



Only Western pressure is preventing Pakistan from testing an ICBM.

Once India can cover all of Europe under it's missile range, only then Pakistan will push to test launch an ICBM of it's own.

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## PakFactor

LeGenD said:


> Fans of ICBM need to realize that it is really expensive and won't make any difference. For reference: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...missiles-obsolete.540429/page-7#post-10676390
> 
> 
> Can we afford SSBNs?
> 
> UK and France operate 3 x SSBN each and only one is active at a time in their case. Look at the size of their economy in GDP as well. Too expensive.
> 
> Babur SLCM is OK for our needs.



Brother I have to respectfully disagree. We need this capability ready and operationalized part of our doctrine we need to be able to strike enemies in Europe or North America or wherever they might be, and tying our hands behind our back isn't good enough and honestly Pakistan really needs to break out and flex it's muscles and establish itself as a proper regional power --

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## R Wing

Horus said:


> Everyone should know that Pakistan did cross the ICBM development threshold in technology terms. Political conditions however do not require such a weapon to be tested or claimed. The capability exists, and that is what matters.



What potential current/future adversary would a 'regular' ICBM be useful against (not in terms of range but in terms of non-hypersonic ICBMs in low numbers reaching their targets)? Most countries that take their national security seriously have robust ballistic defense systems so investing in better tech (stealth, speed, maneuverability, MIRV, etc.) for our existing ranges and other means of deterrence (hypersonic, proxy, cyber, etc.) may be a better allocation of our limited resources.

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## Marker

At present, Pakistan should focus on anti missile systems, air defense systems, high tech radars and EW and ECM systems. 

Ballistic missiles with MIRV capability (range around 3500 km) and a good on ground tracking system are more than enough to keep *nuclear deterrence* against the neighboring enemy and Israel.


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## AUz

Horus said:


> Everyone should know that Pakistan did cross the ICBM development threshold in technology terms. Political conditions however do not require such a weapon to be tested or claimed. The capability exists, and that is what matters.



I disagree with this notion.

The only reason this mythical ICBM notion keeps coming up is because of Western/US military threat that, if imposed on Pak, cannot be defended against currently. So any 'ICBM' Pakistan develops would have to be 8,000-13,000km in range with super advance hypersonic delivery systems, megaton MIRVs, and capable of penetrating the Western ABM ecosystem.

Pakistan neither has the technical know-how and technological-industrial base and nor the resources to develop such ICBM deterrence against the West.

Developing an ICBM like Agni-V is useless for us and doesn't really matter even if the development threshold for such a system was achieved.


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## khansaheeb

Windjammer said:


> Uncle Sam likes to make a song and dance, like when Pakistan managed to wire up it's F-16s to carry and deliver Strategic weapons, Washington sounded alarms, there was perhaps,"you naughty boy" telling off and even wrist slapping with sanctions. Lo and behold, why rely on old capability, here is some brand new plat forms, enter Block-52 Vipers.
> In any case, what makes you think, Pakistan gives two monkeys. !!


It's all done with the wink wink approval of the US-"Pakistan managed to wire up it's F-16s to carry and deliver Strategic weapons, Washington sounded alarms"


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## Yasser76

khansaheeb said:


> It's all done with the wink wink approval of the US-"Pakistan managed to wire up it's F-16s to carry and deliver Strategic weapons, Washington sounded alarms"



ICBM is pointless. 

1) Current IRBM can target Israel and all major US military bases within 3km of Pak, I cannot conceivably think of an instance where we would need to target any European country with a nuke
2) Even if (and it is a very big if) we did need to target any country far away, a sub based nuke woukd have a better chance
3) As others point out, we need to worry about other capabilities way before than.
4) If ever Pakistan was in a confrontation with the US, very high chance China would be involved too


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## Marker

Yasser76 said:


> ICBM is pointless.
> 
> 1) Current IRBM can target Israel and all major US military bases within 3km of Pak, I cannot conceivably think of an instance where we would need to target any European country with a nuke
> 2) Even if (and it is a very big if) we did need to target any country far away, a sub based nuke woukd have a better chance
> 3) As others point out, we need to worry about other capabilities way before than.
> 4) If ever Pakistan was in a confrontation with the US, very high chance China would be involved too


We as humans must realize that use of nuke will be the end of this world. What ever will be left after the nuclear war is nuclear winter. Almost 60 to 70% of population will be wiped out due to direct blast and nuclear radiation. Remaining survivors will face the nuclear fall out. 

Nuclear weapons are now meant for deterrence. If any country dares to use it against another country having nuclear weapons capability, then the aggressor will also face similar deadly consequences.

Countries like USA, China, Russia, France, UK, India, Pakistan and North Korea (probably Israel) cannot afford to enter in full fledge war against each other.

I do agree with you, considering Indians nuclear launching capabilities, for now Pakistan do not require any ICBM. 

For Pakistan geo-strategic nuclear deterrence is a missile or a deliver system of 3500 km range, MIRV capable loaded with nuclear war heads. This deterrence is more than enough to stop offensive action from any nation of the world.

Even if India, Pakistan and China enter into a short scale conflict in Kashmir and Ladakh fronts, use of nuclear weapons will be the last option for these three states (a very remote possibility).

I agree with your #3 point. Pakistan armed forces must enhance the air defense capabilities such as radars, anti missile systems, SAM systems, EW and ECM systems in form of all three platforms ie air, sea and land (ground).
Effective and mature air defense system will act as second deterrence.

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