# Diaoyu Islands News and Updates



## gpit

*The Inconvenient Truth Behind the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands*

By HAN-YI SHAW

_I've had a longstanding interest in the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands, the subject of a dangerous territorial dispute between Japan and China. The United States claims to be neutral but in effect is siding with Japan, and we could be drawn in if a war ever arose. Let me clear that I deplore the violence in the recent anti-Japan protests in China: the violence is reprehensible and makes China look like an irrational bully. China's government should rein in this volatile nationalism rather than feed it. This is a dispute that both sides should refer to the International Court of Justice, rather than allow to boil over in the streets. That said, when I look at the underlying question of who has the best claim, I'm sympathetic to China's position. I don't think it is 100 percent clear, partly because China seemed to acquiesce to Japanese sovereignty between 1945 and 1970, but on balance I find the evidence for Chinese sovereignty quite compelling. The most interesting evidence is emerging from old Japanese government documents and suggests that Japan in effect stole the islands from China in 1895 as booty of war. This article by Han-Yi Shaw, a scholar from Taiwan, explores those documents. I invite any Japanese scholars to make the contrary legal case. - Nicholas Kristof_

Japan's recent purchase of the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands has predictably reignited tensions amongst China, Japan, and Taiwan. Three months ago, when Niwa Uichiro, the Japanese ambassador to China, warned that Japan's purchase of the islands could spark an "extremely grave crisis" between China and Japan, Tokyo Governor Ishihara Shintaro slammed Niwa as an unqualified ambassador, who "needs to learn more about the history of his own country".

Ambassador Niwa was forced to apologize for his remarks and was recently replaced. But what is most alarming amid these developments is that despite Japan's democratic and pluralist society, rising nationalist sentiments are sidelining moderate views and preventing rational dialogue.

The Japanese government maintains that the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands are Japanese territory under international law and historical point of view and has repeatedly insisted that no dispute exists. Despite that the rest of the world sees a major dispute, the Japanese government continues to evade important historical facts behind its unlawful incorporation of the islands in 1895.

Specifically, the Japanese government asserts, "From 1885 on, our government conducted on-site surveys time and again, which confirmed that the islands were uninhabited and there were no signs of control by the Qing Empire."

My research of over 40 official Meiji period documents unearthed from the Japanese National Archives, Diplomatic Records Office, and National Institute for Defense Studies Library clearly demonstrates that the Meiji government acknowledged Chinese ownership of the islands back in 1885.

Following the first on-site survey, in 1885, the Japanese foreign minister wrote, "Chinese newspapers have been reporting rumors of our intention of occupying islands belonging to China located next to Taiwan. At this time, if we were to publicly place national markers, this must necessarily invite China's suspicion. "

In November 1885, the Okinawa governor confirmed "since this matter is not unrelated to China, if problems do arise I would be in grave repentance for my responsibility".

"Surveys of the islands are incomplete" wrote the new Okinawa governor in January of 1892. He requested that a naval ship Kaimon be sent to survey the islands, but ultimately a combination of miscommunication and bad weather made it impossible for the survey to take place.

"Ever since the islands were investigated by Okinawa police agencies back in 1885, there have been no subsequent field surveys conducted," the Okinawa governor wrote in 1894.

After a number of Chinese defeats in the Sino-Japanese War, a report from Japan's Home Ministry said "this matter involved negotiations with China... but the situation today is greatly different from back then." The Meiji government, following a cabinet decision in early 1895, promptly incorporated the islands.

Negotiations with China never took place and this decision was passed during the Sino-Japanese War. It was never made public.

In his biography Koga Tatsushiro, the first Japanese citizen to lease the islands from the Meiji government, attributed Japan's possession of the islands to "the gallant military victory of our Imperial forces."

Collectively, these official documents leave no doubt that the Meiji government did not base its occupation of the islands following "on-site surveys time and again," but instead annexed them as booty of war. This is the inconvenient truth that the Japanese government has conveniently evaded.

Japan asserts that neither Beijing nor Taipei objected to U.S. administration after WWII. That's true, but what Japan does not mention is that neither Beijing nor Taipei were invited as signatories of the San Francisco Peace Treaty in 1951, from which the U.S. derived administrative rights.

When Japan annexed the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands in 1895, it detached them from Taiwan and placed them under Okinawa Prefecture. Moreover, the Japanese name "Senkaku Islands" itself was first introduced in 1900 by academic Kuroiwa Hisashi and adopted by the Japanese government thereafter. Half a century later when Japan returned Taiwan to China, both sides adopted the 1945 administrative arrangement of Taiwan, with the Chinese unaware that the uninhabited "Senkaku Islands" were in fact the former Diaoyu Islands. This explains the belated protest from Taipei and Beijing over U.S. administration of the islands after the war.

The Japanese government frequently cites two documents as evidence that China did not consider the islands to be Chinese. The first is an official letter from a Chinese consul in Nagasaki dated May 20, 1920 that listed the islands as Japanese territory.

Neither Beijing nor Taipei dispute that the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands --- along with the entire island of Taiwan --- were formally under Japanese occupation at the time. However, per post-WW II arrangements, Japan was required to surrender territories obtained from aggression and revert them to their pre-1895 legal status.

The second piece evidence is a Chinese map from 1958 that excludes the Senkaku Islands from Chinese territory. But the Japanese government's partial unveiling leaves out important information from the map's colophon: "certain national boundaries are based on maps compiled prior to the Second Sino-Japanese War(1937-1945)."

Qing period (1644-1911) records substantiate Chinese ownership of the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands prior to 1895. Envoy documents indicate that the islands reside inside the "border that separates Chinese and foreign lands." And according to Taiwan gazetteers, "Diaoyu Island accommodates ten or more large ships" under the jurisdiction of Kavalan, Taiwan.

The right to know is the bedrock of every democracy. The Japanese public deserves to know the other side of the story. It is the politicians who flame public sentiments under the name of national interests who pose the greatest risk, not the islands themselves.

© The New York Times Company

The Inconvenient Truth Behind the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands - ??????? ????


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## WuMaoCleverbot

gpit said:


> Qing period (1644-1911) records substantiate Chinese ownership of the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands prior to 1895. Envoy documents indicate that the islands reside inside the "border that separates Chinese and foreign lands." And according to Taiwan gazetteers, "Diaoyu Island accommodates ten or more large ships" under the jurisdiction of Kavalan, Taiwan.



Can you provide a photograph of the original map/documents showing/substantiating that the Senkakus WAS part of China??? Did any of the documents said the they were part of China or the documents only described the islands??? Is this another China's proving her sovereignty by propaganda only???

What's the basis of China's claim over the Senkakus??? Discovery??? Discovery does not equate to ownership. Naming it??? Naming it does not make it yours. Traditional fishing grounds??? Traditional fishing grounds doesn't equate to sovereignty. Some ancient Chinese traders passed there??? Does not also equate to sovereignty. Did China developed the Senkakus??? What the hell did you develop? Did China conducted economic activities on the island??? Did China exercised effective jurisdiction and effective occupation over the Senkakus??? Did China admistered the Senkakus??? What did China administered there??? Did China erected any structure or lighthouse there??? Did the Japanese expelled any Chinese garrison there in the Senkakus???

I don't think China CAN prove her claims by just telling to all people that &#8220;China owns this and that&#8221; since in ancient times.

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## Viet

@WuMaoCleverbot

Good questions! waiting for Chinese members to respond.

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## Dr. Strangelove

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Can you provide a photograph of the original map/documents showing/substantiating that the Senkakus WAS part of China??? Did any of the documents said the they were part of China or the documents only described the islands??? Is this another China's proving her sovereignty by propaganda only???
> 
> What's the basis of China's claim over the Senkakus??? Discovery??? Discovery does not equate to ownership. Naming it??? Naming it does not make it yours. Traditional fishing grounds??? Traditional fishing grounds doesn't equate to sovereignty. Some ancient Chinese traders passed there??? Does not also equate to sovereignty. Did China developed the Senkakus??? What the hell did you develop? Did China conducted economic activities on the island??? Did China exercised effective jurisdiction and effective occupation over the Senkakus??? Did China admistered the Senkakus??? What did China administered there??? Did China erected any structure or lighthouse there??? Did the Japanese expelled any Chinese garrison there in the Senkakus???
> 
> I don't think China CAN prove her claims by just telling to all people that &#8220;China owns this and that&#8221; since in ancient times.


calm down .... you made your point


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## Luffy 500

Imperial Japan took a lot of territory from china and senkaku/diaoyu is geographically very close to chinese mainland than Japanese one but can a territory given away by the then legitimate chinese gov be taken away now?


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## Plexyre

Well I'll be nice and ignore the troll 



Viet said:


> Good questions! waiting for Chinese members to respond.



It's not easy to find an objective analysis on the dispute, since most do omit a lot of information 

Well anyways I looked around a bit and managed to find a rather detailed and relatively objective analysis, if you're a fast reader you might be able to finish the whole thesis in a few hours 

http://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/10092/4085/1/thesis_fulltext.pdf

Plenty of information to digest there for those interested.


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## gambit

October 4, 2012, 2:32 PM
The Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands: A Japanese Scholar Responds
By TAKAYUKI NISHI

The People&#8217;s Republic of China&#8217;s claim that the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands are an &#8220;inherent territory&#8221; of China contradicts its own demands before 1970.

Before 1970, the People&#8217;s Republic of China did not merely acquiesce to Japanese sovereignty over the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. China demanded self-determination for the U.S.-administered Ryukyu Islands, with an option of return to Japanese administration, while specifically including the &#8220;Senkaku Islands&#8221;. Thus, China agreed with the United States and Japan that, in the event of the Ryukyu Islands&#8217; return to Japanese administration, the United States should also return the Senkaku Islands to Japan.

The common law doctrine of estoppel prevents a party from gaining by making an allegation or denial that contradicts what the party has previously stated as a fact.

According to Article 38 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice, if Japan and China ever agree to refer China&#8217;s claim to the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands to the Court, the Court shall either apply the following four standards, or if the parties agree thereto, ignore them and decide the case ex aequo et bono (i.e., according to what is right and good, rather than according to the law):

a. international conventions, whether general or particular, establishing rules expressly recognized by the contesting states;
b. international custom, as evidence of a general practice accepted as law;
c. the general principles of law recognized by civilized nations;
d. subject to the provisions of Article 59, judicial decisions and the teachings of the most highly qualified publicists of the various nations, as subsidiary means for the determination of rules of law.

The Court has applied the general principle of estoppel in a number of cases, including disputes over islands.

Thus, the most important evidence for judging China&#8217;s claim legally is China&#8217;s demand before 1970 for self-determination of the U.S.-administered Ryukyu Islands, specifically including the &#8220;Senkaku Islands,&#8221; with an option of return to Japanese administration.

For instance, the People&#8217;s Daily, the official newspaper of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, published an article titled &#8220;The Struggle of the People of the Ryukyu Islands against U.S. Occupation&#8221; (Liuqiu Qundao renmin fandui Meiguo zhanling douzheng) on January 8, 1953. It was published in the &#8220;Documents&#8221; (ziliao) section, which is usually edited carefully to give the party line. The whole article is posted in simplified characters here. An image of the first half of the article is here.

The first sentence defines the Ryukyu Islands:

The Ryukyu Islands lie scattered in the sea to the northeast of our country&#8217;s Taiwan and southwest of Japan&#8217;s Kyushu Island, and includes seven groups of islands, namely Senkaku Islands [Jiange Zhudao], Sakishima Islands, Daito Islands, Okinawa Islands, Oshima Islands, Tokara Islands, and Osumi Islands, each with large and small islands; more than fifty islands have names and more than four hundred are unnamed and small; their land area totals 4670 square kilometers.

Self-determination for the Ryukyu Islands, with return to Japanese administration as an option, is demanded in the final sentence (and elsewhere):

The Ryukyu people&#8217;s struggle against transformation of Ryukyu by the United States into a military base, against enslavement by the United States, and for freedom, liberation, and peace is not isolated; it is inseparable from the Japanese people&#8217;s struggle for independence, democracy, and peace; it is inseparable from the struggle of Asian and Pacific peoples and the peoples of all countries of the world to defend peace; therefore, despite the ongoing barbaric repression of the Ryukyu people by the U.S. occupiers, final victory belongs inevitably to the Ryukyu people.

In short, China demanded the U.S.-administered &#8220;Senkaku Islands&#8221; outcomes other than transfer to China, even while fiercely fighting U.S. armed forces in Korea, which were supported from Okinawa and mainland Japan. This Chinese demand cannot be explained away as a result of ignorance about the islands&#8217; situation.

I do not evaluate here Mr. Han-yi Shaw&#8217;s selection and interpretation of documents from the nineteenth century and before, because they are irrelevant to the estoppel over the most recently recognized border.

*However, for the sake of argument, if Mr. Shaw&#8217;s interpretation were entirely correct, then the People&#8217;s Republic of China (and less explicitly, the Republic of China on Taiwan) has legally disowned the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands by mistake, through sheer lack of interest in the islands before 1970.*

Takayuki Nishi is a Project Assistant Professor at the Global Center for Asian and Regional Research at University of Shizuoka, in Shizuoka, Japan.

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## Fanling Monk

LOL at the people who put out a Japanese source. Couldn't any better.


Im sympathetic to Chinas position. I dont think it is 100 percent clear, partly because China seemed to acquiesce to Japanese sovereignty between 1945 and 1970, but on balance I find the evidence for Chinese sovereignty quite compelling. The most interesting evidence is emerging from old Japanese government documents and suggests that Japan in effect stole the islands from China in 1895 as booty of war. This article by Han-Yi Shaw, a scholar from Taiwan, explores those documents. I invite any Japanese scholars to make the contrary legal case.  *Nicholas Kristof*


Han-Yi Shaw article, endorsed by Kristo of NYT: 

The Inconvenient Truth Behind the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands - NYTimes.com


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## gambit

Fanling Monk said:


> LOL at the people who put out a Japanese source.


And who is 'HAN-YI SHAW' ?

And why not present a Japanese source? You have no problems with Chinese sources.

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## Fanling Monk

gambit said:


> And who is 'HAN-YI SHAW' ?
> 
> And why not present a Japanese source? You have no problems with Chinese sources.




We have hundreds of proofs but we're not going present them for the same reason I criticize yours but this one is endorse by a reputable scholar with NYT backing.


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## gambit

Fanling Monk said:


> We have hundreds of proofs but we're not going present them for the same reason I criticize yours but this one is endorse by a reputable scholar with NYT backing.


Endorse? Hardly. As left slanted as the NY Times in American politics, the rag does try at times to be reasonably fair. Mr. Takayuki Nishi's respons was also published in the NY Times via Nicholas Kristof, the same guy who gave Mr. Han-Yi Shaw a say.

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## Fanling Monk

gambit said:


> Endorse? Hardly. As left slanted as the NY Times in American politics, the rag does try at times to be reasonably fair. Mr. Takayuki Nishi's respons was also published in the NY Times via Nicholas Kristof, the same guy who gave Mr. Han-Yi Shaw a say.




You don't have a link that said publish through Kriskof, even if it does an endorsement by the gent is unlikely. However you think of Kriskof carries as much weight as how I think of him.


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## gambit

Fanling Monk said:


> *You don't have a link that said publish through Kriskof*, even if it does an endorsement by the gent is unlikely. However you think of Kriskof carries as much weight as how I think of him.


As you wish...

The Inconvenient Truth Behind the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands - NYTimes.com


> I&#8217;ve had a longstanding interest in the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands, the subject of a dangerous territorial dispute between Japan and China. The United States claims to be neutral but in effect is siding with Japan, and we could be drawn in if a war ever arose. Let me clear that I deplore the violence in the recent anti-Japan protests in China: the violence is reprehensible and makes China look like an irrational bully. China&#8217;s government should rein in this volatile nationalism rather than feed it. This is a dispute that both sides should refer to the International Court of Justice, rather than allow to boil over in the streets. That said, when I look at the underlying question of who has the best claim, I&#8217;m sympathetic to China&#8217;s position. I don&#8217;t think it is 100 percent clear, partly because China seemed to acquiesce to Japanese sovereignty between 1945 and 1970, but on balance I find the evidence for Chinese sovereignty quite compelling. The most interesting evidence is emerging from old Japanese government documents and suggests that Japan in effect stole the islands from China in 1895 as booty of war. *This article by Han-Yi Shaw, a scholar from Taiwan, explores those documents. I invite any Japanese scholars to make the contrary legal case. &#8211; Nicholas Kristof*



The Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands: A Japanese Scholar Responds - NYTimes.com


> I recently posted a commentary by Han-Yi Shaw, a scholar from Taiwan, arguing that Japan in effect stole the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands from China in 1895 as the spoils of war. I invited Japanese scholars to make the opposing case, and *I am happy to post a response from Takayuki Nishi, an Assistant Professor at the Global Regional Center of Shizuoka Prefectural University.* As always, I welcome your comments and feedback. &#8211; Nicholas Kristof


You really think I am as deceitful as so many of your fellow Chinese on this forum?

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## danger007

Luffy 500 said:


> Imperial Japan took a lot of territory from china and senkaku/diaoyu is geographically very close to chinese mainland than Japanese one but can a territory given away by the then legitimate chinese gov be taken away now?



why don't you raise your point like this, on other SCS territories which china claiming as their own. chinese claiming almost entire SCS..

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## Fanling Monk

LOL The way I know you, as good a conniver as any, I knew you have it and that's you don't see me really accusing you for providing a source without a link. Never try to con a pro, so to speak.


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## gpit

gambit said:


> October 4, 2012, 2:32 PM
> The Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands: A Japanese Scholar Responds
> By TAKAYUKI NISHI
> 
> The People&#8217;s Republic of China&#8217;s claim that the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands are an &#8220;inherent territory&#8221; of China contradicts its own demands before 1970.
> 
> Before 1970, the People&#8217;s Republic of China did not merely acquiesce to Japanese sovereignty over the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. China demanded self-determination for the U.S.-administered Ryukyu Islands, with an option of return to Japanese administration, while specifically including the &#8220;Senkaku Islands&#8221;. Thus, China agreed with the United States and Japan that, in the event of the Ryukyu Islands&#8217; return to Japanese administration, the United States should also return the Senkaku Islands to Japan.
> 
> ...





The second paragraph is a false statement. Thus all that follows doesn't have ground to stand.

Post WWII international order is mainly established upon the Cario Declaration (see [Cairo Communiqué](Text) | Birth of the Constitution of Japan) and the Potsdam Declaration .






A 1785 Japanese map, the Sangoku Ts&#363;ran Zusetsu (&#19977;&#22269;&#36890;&#35239;&#22259;&#35500 by Hayashi Shihei adopted the Chinese kanji (&#37347;&#39770;&#33274; Diaoyutai) to annotate the Senkaku Islands, which were painted in the same color as China.[11][16] The primary text itself can be found here.[17] - wiki

Thus Diayu Island is an occupied land by Japan in WWII. It should be return to China.

The Potsdam declaration also specifies that:



> (8) The terms of the Cairo declaration shall be carried out and *Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine.*



*Thus Japan does not have sovereignty over Ryukyu Islands.* Unless it wants to subvert post WWII world order.

This Japanese guy's saying that if China doesn't make noise before 1970 means China yields the sovereign on Diaoyu Islands to Japan. This funny guy forgets a common sense. He believes if a thief steals something the victim must claim before certain time frame, or the steal is legal. 

BTW, even since June 1971, when US signed Treaty of "Reversion to Japan of the Ryukyu and Daito Islands" with Japan in Washington, *flying Japanese flag in Ryukyu is considered criminal* upto today... and let's not forget PRC's "An Declaration of The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China, 1971-12-30" to dispute Diaoyu Islands shortly after the handover of Ryukyu.


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## gambit

gpit said:


> This Japanese guy's saying that if China doesn't make noise before 1970 means China yields the sovereign on Diaoyu Islands to Japan. This funny guy forgets a common sense. He believes if a thief steals something the victim must claim before certain time frame, or the steal is legal.


If we are to continue with the theft analogy, any victim of theft must claim *POSSESSION* which includes sovereignty and administration of item, else the item is considered abandoned. The theft is still illegal. The real world is filled with these instances. Why do you think police departments around the US routinely hold property sales that have been in police custody for years with no one claiming them? Those items were not awarded to the criminals.

So why did you ignore Nishi's argument that China effectively abandoned those islands when China demanded the US allowed the islanders to right to self determination? He provided sources stating China's position to that effect.

[


> ...but the final victory must belong to the people of Ryukyu.


Translation may be rough but China's position back in 1953 seems declarative enough of China's washing hands off the islands.

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## Hellraiser007

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Can you provide a photograph of the original map/documents showing/substantiating that the Senkakus WAS part of China??? Did any of the documents said the they were part of China or the documents only described the islands??? Is this another China's proving her sovereignty by propaganda only???
> 
> What's the basis of China's claim over the Senkakus??? Discovery??? Discovery does not equate to ownership. Naming it??? Naming it does not make it yours. Traditional fishing grounds??? Traditional fishing grounds doesn't equate to sovereignty. Some ancient Chinese traders passed there??? Does not also equate to sovereignty. Did China developed the Senkakus??? What the hell did you develop? Did China conducted economic activities on the island??? Did China exercised effective jurisdiction and effective occupation over the Senkakus??? Did China admistered the Senkakus??? What did China administered there??? Did China erected any structure or lighthouse there??? Did the Japanese expelled any Chinese garrison there in the Senkakus???
> 
> I don't think China CAN prove her claims by just telling to all people that China owns this and that since in ancient times.



Very well said mate, Todays CCP is completely different from Qing. Chinese never ruled and controlled these Islands and Japan inhibited and established business there. 
 * Chinese always dream about their rosy past and try to claim every thing related to that. If the same logic applies to every nation then whole of China can be claimed by Mongols. 
*

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## Hellraiser007

Luffy 500 said:


> Imperial Japan took a lot of territory from china and senkaku/diaoyu is geographically very close to chinese mainland than Japanese one but can a territory given away by the then legitimate chinese gov be taken away now?



If the same logic applies to spartly and parcel Islands should belong to Vietnam and Phillipines. China cunningly avoids International laws here but goes to UN any thing related to Senkaku's.



Fanling Monk said:


> We have hundreds of proofs but we're not going present them for the same reason I criticize yours but this one is endorse by a reputable scholar with NYT backing.



*If the same logic applies to Tibet, China stole Tibet from its people*

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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> Very well said mate, Todays CCP is completely different from Qing. Chinese never ruled and controlled these Islands and Japan inhibited and established business there.
> * Chinese always dream about their rosy past and try to claim every thing related to that. If the same logic applies to every nation then whole of China can be claimed by Mongols.
> *



Sorry, but the "Mongolia" nowadays has nothing related to the former Mongolia Empire, same story goes to Macedonia. Besides, Outer Mongolia was independent from Modern China. If China really claims everything, they should claim OM. 

You can search my old posts.


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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> *If the same logic applies to Tibet, China stole Tibet from its people*



Yeah and India stole Goa from its people, according to your logic.


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## Hellraiser007

KirovAirship said:


> Sorry, but the "Mongolia" nowadays has nothing related to the former Mongolia Empire, same story goes to Macedonia. Besides, Outer Mongolia was independent from Modern China. If China really claims everything, they should claim OM.
> 
> You can search my old posts.



Similarly todays CCP is not related to Qing so do not try to bully island nations in Pacific.



KirovAirship said:


> Yeah and India stole Goa from its people, according to your logic.



Goa's case is completely different from Tibet and there are no independence movement in Goa. But Tibet is in oppression since Mao lead a blood revolution.

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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> Similarly todays CCP is not related to Qing so do not try to bully island nations in Pacific.
> 
> 
> 
> Goa's case is completely different from Tibet and there are no independence movement in Goa. But Tibet is in oppression since Mao lead a blood revolution.



Wrong again, the PRC is officially inherited from the ROC and Qing Dynasty, but OM is inherited from nobody.

Goa's case is exactly the same with Tibet, also with Basque, Bayern, Northern Ireland and Catalonia.

If you really want to see the difference: 
India sent their troops to against peaceful people, the CCP sent their troops to fight Dali's betrayal action.


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## Hellraiser007

KirovAirship said:


> Wrong again, the PRC is officially inherited from the ROC and Qing Dynasty, but OM is inherited from nobody.
> 
> Goa's case is exactly the same with Tibet, also with Basque, Bayern, Northern Ireland and Catalonia.



So you are the one who started independence movement in Goa 

No matter how much you try CCP is not the legitimate succesor of QING.

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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> So you are the one who started independence movement in Goa
> 
> No matter how much you try CCP is not the legitimate succesor of QING.



No. Nor in Britian, Ireland, Vietnam, Spain or France.

According to your logic India is not legitimate successor of Mughal either, give your history back to Pakistan.


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## Hellraiser007

KirovAirship said:


> No.
> 
> According to your logic India is not legitimate successor of Mughal either, give your history back to Pakistan.



Mugals are not the ones who migrated to pakistan 

India existed as a country from 5000 B.C. You have no idea what you are talking about.


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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> Mugals are not the ones who migrated to pakistan
> 
> India existed as a country from 5000 B.C. You have no idea what you are talking about.



Yes they are, as you said that Outer Mongolia should claim China.
If Pakistan was not named Pakistan but Mughal, that will be awesome in some way.

So does China, hmmhmm. I though you are the one who doesn't know his own comment.


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## Hellraiser007

KirovAirship said:


> Yes they are, as you said that Outer Mongolia should claim China.
> If Pakistan was not named Pakistan but Mughal, that will be awesome in some way.
> 
> So does China, hmmhmm. I though you are the one who doesn't know his own comment.



Again confused 

Mugal dynasty was originated in Afganistan and they are Chagatai tribes of central asia. Majority of Mugal emperors were born in India and the last mugal emperor was born here unlike Kublai khan.

Mugal empire relates to Afganistan, not pakistan which is just a passage to India. But Mongol empire originated in Mongolia and at its height it sub dued whole china and ruled it.

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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> Again confused
> 
> Mugal dynasty was originated in Afganistan and they are Chagatai tribes of central asia. Majority of Mugal emperors were born in India and the last mugal emperor was born here unlike Kublai khan.
> 
> Mugal empire relates to Afganistan, not pakistan which is just a passage to India. But Mongol empire originated in Mongolia and at its height it sub dued whole china and ruled it.



No confusion at all, again based on your logic, Pakistan as a "passage" owns Mughal since you said Outer Mongolia should claim China:
Mongolian were originated from Hulun Buir, which is a territory of Modern China. 
Nowadays people in Outer Mongolia are mainly Khalkha, who were "slaves" of the Golden Family. They were not even part of Mongolian during the Yuan Dynasty. 
And those Golden Family, lineal descendants of the Great Khan, more than half of Mongolian in the world, are all Chinese.

Ming officially inherited from Yuan, 
Qing officially inherited from Ming and Northern Yuan,
ROC officially inherited from Qing,
PRC officially inherited from ROC.

Khalkha has no business related to these changing.

Again: 
China is a country established by Chinese ethnic groups including Tibetan, Hun, Han, Mongolian, Manchu, and others. The history of China obviously = The history of Chinese ethnic groups (expectation can goes to non-native ethnics such as Russian and Korean).

Outter Mongolian has no right to on behalf of the Golden Family nor take over the history from China.


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## Hellraiser007

KirovAirship said:


> No confusion at all, again based on your logic, Pakistan as a "passage" owns Mughal since you said Outer Mongolia should claim China:
> Mongolian were originated from Hulun Buir, which is a territory of Modern China.
> Nowadays people in Outer Mongolia are mainly Khalkha, who were "slaves" of the Golden Family. They were not even part of Mongolian during the Yuan Dynasty.
> And those Golden Family, lineal descendants of the Great Khan, more than half of Mongolian in the world, are all Chinese.
> 
> Ming officially inherited from Yuan,
> Qing officially inherited from Ming and Northern Yuan,
> ROC officially inherited from Qing,
> PRC officially inherited from ROC.
> 
> Khalkha has no business related to these changing.
> 
> Again:
> China is a country established by Chinese ethnic groups including Tibetan, Hun, Han, Mongolian, Manchu, and others. The history of China obviously = The history of Chinese ethnic groups (expectation can goes to non-native ethnics such as Russian and Korean).
> 
> Outter Mongolian has no right to on behalf of the Golden Family nor take over the history from China.



Going by the logic Afghanistan can claim the Mugal heritage not pakistan.

Yuan Dynasty originated from Mongolia and you cannot claim their heritage.


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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> Going by the logic Afghanistan can claim the Mugal heritage not pakistan.
> 
> Yuan Dynasty originated from Mongolia and you cannot claim their heritage.



No because Afghanistan has nothing to do with India nowadays, but more than half of Mongolian in the world are Chinese and they are the grand grand grand grand grand grand... grandsons and daughters of the Great Khan. You didn't read my post clearly goddamn it.


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## Hellraiser007

KirovAirship said:


> No because Afghanistan has nothing to do with India nowadays, but more than half of Mongolian in the world are Chinese and they are the grand grand grand grand grand grand... grandsons and daughters of the Great Khan. You didn't read my post clearly goddamn it.



No because you said so 

How can Mongolian become Chinese Han why not Chinese Han become Mongolian .
You and your logic  and those PISA tests

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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> No because you said so
> 
> How can Mongolian become Chinese Han why not Chinese Han become Mongolian .
> You and your logic  and those PISA tests



Who told you that [All Chinese = Han]
It is not "I said so", it is the Fact.

Mongolian Chinese and Han Chinese both establish Chinese history.
Han Chinese: Ming, Song, Jing...
Mongolian Chinese: Yuan, Northern Yuan. 
Any more confusion?


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## Hellraiser007

KirovAirship said:


> Who told you that [All Chinese = Han]
> It is not "I said so", it is the Fact.



So you deny that all minorities in China are Han-ized

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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> So you deny that all minorities in China are Han-ized



Han is only one part of the whole Chinese culture.


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## Hellraiser007

KirovAirship said:


> Han is only one part of the whole Chinese culture.



There lies your ignorance.


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## Snomannen

Hellraiser007 said:


> There lies your ignorance.



Since when Han chauvinism has moved to India and poisoned the people, interesting.


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## Akasa

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Can you provide a photograph of the original map/documents showing/substantiating that the Senkakus WAS part of China??? Did any of the documents said the they were part of China or the documents only described the islands??? Is this another China's proving her sovereignty by propaganda only???
> 
> What's the basis of China's claim over the Senkakus??? Discovery??? Discovery does not equate to ownership. Naming it??? Naming it does not make it yours. Traditional fishing grounds??? Traditional fishing grounds doesn't equate to sovereignty. Some ancient Chinese traders passed there??? Does not also equate to sovereignty. Did China developed the Senkakus??? What the hell did you develop? Did China conducted economic activities on the island??? Did China exercised effective jurisdiction and effective occupation over the Senkakus??? Did China admistered the Senkakus??? What did China administered there??? Did China erected any structure or lighthouse there??? Did the Japanese expelled any Chinese garrison there in the Senkakus???
> 
> I don't think China CAN prove her claims by just telling to all people that China owns this and that since in ancient times.



In introspect, what is there to prove Japan's claim to the islands? Do they have a city there? Both nations produced maps and historical records, and this will remain a dispute. The Japanese has not released any credible proof as of now for their claim to the islands. Sending gunboats there to clash with other nations won't help Japan prove its point.


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## ahfatzia

*A Qing dynasty volume with a yellowed title page in bold, black characters from the 1760s about Ryukyuan students sits on display in a glass case at the Imperial College in Beijing on Wednesday. Chinese scholars say that the 18th century book is evidence that the Diaoyu Islands are part of China's territory. Photo: AFP
*


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## EastSea

Map printed in China 1960 stated Island belong to Japan. Is this inconvenient Truth for China. Photo: Kyodo.

Các tàu Trung Qu

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## ahfatzia

*Four Chinese ships patrolling around dispute water: Japan*






_Picture taken by Japanese Coastguards _


TOKYO: Four Chinese government ships sailed into the territorial waters of disputed islands controlled by Tokyo in the East China Sea on Friday, Japan's coastguard said.

The maritime surveillance vessels *entered the 12-nautical-mile zone around Kubashima*, one of the islands in the chain called the Senkakus by Japan and the Diaoyus by China.

*Chinese vessels have been spotted in and around the territorial waters almost every day for the last two months.*

Beijing on Monday branded a US-Japan security treaty "a product of the Cold War" when Washington lawmakers reiterated their support for Japan by passing an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Bill.

The amendment noted that while the United States "takes no position" on the ultimate sovereignty of the territory, it "acknowledges the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands".

The sovereignty of the islands has been a source of friction for decades, but the row erupted earlier this year after the nationalist governor of Tokyo said he wanted to buy them for the city, prompting the Japanese government to nationalise them.

Four Chinese ships in disputed waters: Japan - Channel NewsAsia


Just to remind China to keep this routine up.

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## Methu_Xie

The Current Prime Minister of Japan is a fool
Natural fool


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## WuMaoCleverbot

Found this:

*Why Senkaku Suits the World Better*
By Chip Tsao | Aug 23, 2012

The threat of World War III briefly flared up last week as a few vague rocks called the Senkaku Islands (also known as Diaoyutai Islands) out on the sea somewhere between Taiwan and Okinawa caused some infuriated Chinese ultra-rightist patriots to threaten to nuke Tokyo after the Japanese coast guard and immigration officers deported a bunch of Hong Kong boat people who had landed illegally on them.

The invaders, who shouted abuse in Cantonese, were swiftly removed and handcuffed by the Japanese, who showed the international community once again that the islands are being effectively administered by Japan. They were then put on a business-class flight, compliments of Japanese taxpayers.

The invaders were hailed here and in China as national heroes although they were deported as swiftly as the hundreds of illegal Mexican immigrants by American police on the Texas border every day.

They shouted victory to the world as they successfully &#8220;proclaimed China&#8217;s sovereignty&#8221; over the islands by briefly laying their feet on the soil and planting both China&#8217;s and Taiwan&#8217;s national flags on the rocks, which were quickly cast into the waves by the Japanese coast guard. If such acts constitute the realization of &#8220;national sovereignty,&#8221; then the few tens of thousands of boat people detained in Hong Kong camps in the 1990s before being deported back to Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City could also claim that a part of Britain was likewise owned by Vietnam. This is how the logic of the &#8220;Protect the Diaoyutai&#8221; campaign goes. If adopted into a doctrine, the Senkaku incident would set a strange precedent case only recognized by China. Following that, any Chinese person attempting to cross the immigration checkpoint at Heathrow or Newark without a passport and ordered to board the next flight back home could claim Chinese sovereignty over Britain or America on behalf of Beijing and demand business class return fares paid for by these governments. Japan has set a dangerous example of immigration largesse for all Western countries.

The heroes kept Hong Kong journalists informed via Facebook as their ship reached the shore and got stranded. Electronic communication was only possible because the Senkaku Islands and the nearby sea, being Japanese territories, are effectively covered by NTT&#8212;the Japanese telecommunications network.

If the islands were under Chinese rule and guarded by PLA soldiers, there would be no access to Facebook. But thanks to the freedoms granted by Japanese sovereignty, the Hong Kong invaders would have also theoretically been able to surf pornographic and Falun Gong websites if they had even been allowed to stay long enough to get bored with life on the islands.

This is why it is not a bad thing, even for the Chinese, for those rocks to be officially called Senkaku.

Chip Tsao is a best-selling author, columnist and a former producer for the BBC. His columns have also appeared in Apple Daily, Next Magazine and CUP Magazine, among others.

Why Senkaku Suits the World Better | Politically Incorrect with Chip Tsao | HK Magazine Online


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## S10

The whole issue could have been avoided if Japan didn't pull their little nationalization stunt. Since they started it, China should finish it.

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## ahfatzia

*The story of Chip Tsao*


On March 27, 2009, an article of Tsao's entitled "The War at Home" was published in the free HK Magazine. In it, he wrote that the Philippines was unworthy of claiming the Spratly Islands from China because *"as a nation of servants, you don't flex your muscles at your master, from whom **you earn most of your bread and butter."* Many Filipinos decried his article as racist, discriminatory, and demeaning, and the Philippine government declared him an "undesirable alien" as a result. His writings provoked negative reactions from various Philippine legislators; Senator Pia Cayetano stated that "instead of contributing to intelligent discussions on ways to resolve the Spratlys dispute, Tsao only succeeded in eliciting hatred and sowing more confusion not only among Filipinos but maybe even among his fellow Chinese who are not aware of the intricacies of the issue", while Parañaque Congressman Roilo Golez refused to accept Tsao's apology for his article, and challenged him to a boxing match.

Chip Tsao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






_Chip Tsao_





_Gordon G. Chang_


If Gordon lets his hair grows a little there's certain likeness between the two.


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## terranMarine

These tensions must not cool down as long as Japan is refusing to acknowledge its mistake, by using boats and adding uav patrols China will always keep Japan alarmed. Meanwhile boycotting their products must be reminded as it will continue to damage their economy faster than Japan is switching PM. Perhaps a massive group of fishermen should be organizing a trip once every 3 months just like what they did at the beginning.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

Found this:

*CIA: Japan's Senkaku claim the strongest
Report in 1970s concluded China has no basis for territorial bid*
Jiji
Friday, Oct. 5, 2012

WASHINGTON &#8212; A report compiled by the CIA on the sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands around the time China started to formally claim them as its own concluded that Japan's sovereignty case was by far the stronger and more convincing.

"The Japanese claim to sovereignty over the Senkakus is strong, and the burden of proof of ownership would seem to fall on the Chinese," said the intelligence report, which was drafted in May 1971 and was included in declassified documents from the National Security Archive of George Washington University.

In related documents, the CIA stated that any dispute between Japan, China and Taiwan over the islands would not have arisen had it not been for the discovery of potential oil reserves on the nearby continental shelf in the late 1960s.

CIA: Japan's Senkaku claim the strongest | The Japan Times Online


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## WuMaoCleverbot

*U.S. Senate OKs amendment backing Japan in Senkaku dispute*
POLITICS DEC. 01, 2012 - 06:00PM JST 

WASHINGTON &#8212;
The U.S. Senate has unanimously approved an amendment that reaffirms the U.S. commitment to Japan in its territorial dispute with China over the Senkaku Islands as Washington tries to counter any attempt by Beijing to challenge Japan&#8217;s administration of the archipelago.

The measure was attached to the National Defense Authorization Bill for Fiscal Year 2013 still being debated in the Senate. Senators Jim Webb of Virginia, James Inhofe of Oklahoma, Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and John McCain of Arizona have co-sponsored the measure.

The amendment notes that while the United States &#8220;takes no position&#8221; on the ultimate sovereignty of the territory, it &#8220;acknowledges the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands.&#8221;

It further adds that &#8220;unilateral actions of a third party will not affect United States acknowledgement of the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands.&#8221;

The legislation reaffirms the U.S. commitment to Japan under the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security and warns that an armed attack against either party &#8220;in the territories under the administration of Japan&#8221; would be met in accordance with its provisions.

The amendment also noted U.S. opposition to any efforts to coerce, threaten to use force, or use force to resolve territorial issues.

The Senate reiterated the U.S. national interest in freedom of navigation, peace and stability, respect for international law, and unimpeded lawful commerce in the region.

&#8220;This amendment is a strong statement of support for a vital ally in Pacific Asia,&#8221; Senator Webb said in a statement.

It &#8220;unequivocally states that the United States acknowledges the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands, and that this position will not be changed through threats, coercion, or military action,&#8221; added the Democratic senator.

Webb chairs the Senate Foreign Relations East Asian and Pacific Affairs Subcommittee.

The sovereignty of the islands has been a source of friction for decades, but the row erupted earlier this year after the nationalist governor of Tokyo said he wanted to buy them for the city, forcing the Japanese government to nationalise them.

Chinese vessels have been spotted in and around the territorial waters every day for the last month.

Both sides have publicly refused to back down on their respective claims to the Japan-controlled islands, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.

National pride as well as potential mineral reserves are at stake in the decades-old dispute, which has hit the huge trade relationship between the world&#8217;s second and third largest economies.

U.S. Senate OKs amendment backing Japan in Senkaku dispute ? Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion


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## S10

terranMarine said:


> These tensions must not cool down as long as Japan is refusing to acknowledge its mistake, by using boats and adding uav patrols China will always keep Japan alarmed. Meanwhile boycotting their products must be reminded as it will continue to damage their economy faster than Japan is switching PM. Perhaps a massive group of fishermen should be organizing a trip once every 3 months just like what they did at the beginning.


Japan has already dipped into recession due to the dispute, while China's economy is on the way to recovery. Time is on our side, not their. They want to force a confrontation right this moment because they know they will lose in the long term. This is their last chance to contain China in Asia, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Americans are behind it.


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## ahfatzia

*A former Japanese diplomat has accused the United States of manipulating Japan since the second world war in order to &#8220;eliminate&#8221; prime ministers who sought to develop better relations with Beijing.
*
*Ukeru Magosaki, who also served as the head of the Foreign Ministry&#8217;s Intelligence and Analysis Bureau, has recently written a book that has soared to the top of Japan&#8217;s bestseller lists.
*
The book - *Sengoshi no Shotai (The Truth Behind Post-war History) &#8211; states that the US will never remove its military bases from Japanese territory, no matter how much public outcry there is.*

Magosaki also said he believes that certain factions in the US would even like to see Japan develop nuclear weapons.(to fight Uncle Sams war).

&#8220;In the book, I divide Japanese leaders into two groups; those who have wanted to pursue independent foreign policies and those who have just followed US instructions and policies,&#8221; Magosaki said in Tokyo yesterday.

&#8220;Those in the first group were not welcomed by the US government and were usually quickly eliminated from the post of prime minister.&#8221;

This was not achieved directly by Washington, he claimed, but *through subtle influence over key politicians, the media, government officials and senior executives of major companies.*

A spokeswoman for the US embassy in Tokyo declined to comment on the allegations made in Magosaki&#8217;s book.

*To achieve its control of Japan&#8217;s political processes, Washington has interfered with media coverage, encouraged opposition parties, twisted public opinion and even brought down governments by &#8220;eliminating&#8221; key cabinet members*, Magosaki claims.

Two of the Japanese politicians who he claims have been hounded for their independent thoughts have been Yukio Hatoyama, who lasted less then nine months as prime minister until June 2010, and Ichiro Ozawa, whose reputation has been tarnished by a financial scandal and a legal case.

Magosaki believes that had Hatoyama remained in power, the government would not be making moves to restart Japan&#8217;s nuclear reactors &#8211; shut down in the aftermath of the disaster at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant &#8211; and would not have gone ahead with raising the consumption tax or deploying US military Osprey aircraft to Okinawa.

These issues, along with the ongoing debate over the *Diaoyu-Senkaku islands and the Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade discussions, are all closely connected with Washington&#8217;s global geopolitical interests*, Magosaki said.

The US was *&#8220;encouraging politicians like [national policy minister Seiji] Maehara to take action against China as that has a benefit for the US,&#8221;* he said.

And while business interests in the US may want closer co-operation with China, the US government was pursuing what Magosaki termed an &#8220;offshore balancing strategy&#8221; under which neighbouring nations - he named South Korea, the Philippines, Vietnam and Japan &#8211; are encouraged to pursue actions to constrain China and its growing regional influence.

&#8220;The Senkaku [Diaoyu] issue is part of that strategy,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;Today, in the US, there are some people who want Japan to have a nuclear bomb.

&#8220;This is related to balancing strategy, to counter China by using Japan&#8217;s military power.

&#8220;From China&#8217;s point of view, Yoshihiko Noda has been the worst prime minister they could have had and they feel there can be no trust&#8221; between the two governments, Magosaki said. &#8220;That means that anyone who replaces him will be welcome.&#8221;

The 4th Media » A Japanese Ex-diplomat Accuses the Sino-Japanese Rift Part of US Agenda: The Truth Behind the Post-war History

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*China should remember no country is an island in a globalised world*
*Beijing's fight with Japan over the Senkaku islands could have worldwide ramifications*
The Observer, Sunday 7 October 2012

There is no doubt that the row over a group of tiny islands in the East China Sea has sealed the deterioration in relations between China and Japan. The diplomatic spat over the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands, which sparked violent protests, with Japanese flags and factories burned, stunned Tokyo, and caused Japanese companies to consider scrapping investment plans in China. Why open a new factory, they ask, just for it to be firebombed or defaced while an acquiescent administration turns a blind eye?

Until recently the "one-plus-one" investment policy (for every factory built in Japan, companies also had to build one overseas) benefited China. But now insiders say firms will look to support growth in Indonesia, the Philippines or newly open Burma.

For the International Monetary Fund, which has taken its annual meeting to the Japanese capital for the first time since 1964, the dispute is one of many linked to slowing growth and a rise in protectionism.

This week's meeting was scheduled for Cairo, until the Arab spring made the region look too unstable for a gathering of finance ministers and global institutions. But with Chinese frigates circling the disputed islands and pleas for calm going unheeded, Tokyo's political situation is closer to Cairo's than the IMF expected.

China's leaders are undoubtedly under pressure. Growth has slowed from more than 10% to less than 8% over the past two years, but its rising population means that growth of between 6% and 7% is needed just to keep pace. In March, Beijing cut its growth target for the whole of 2012 to 7.5%. As any student of politics knows, a foreign dispute distracts attention from failing economic policies.

But opting for a short-term boost in domestic popularity over a deterioration in long-term relations with foreign investors looks to be a huge mistake by the Beijing authorities. And the IMF understands that this local dispute has much wider ramifications: after all, Japan is the world's third-largest economy and China, its second-biggest, accounts for about a fifth of the world's total economic output. Any slowdown is going to hamper a global recovery.

The Americans have already put the brakes on expansion in China, in reaction to general corruption and to the growing threat from intellectual property theft. European companies have also backed off, preferring to send in high-value goods made at home.

Japan's economy is not in great shape either. This year, colossal spending on imported gas and oil will send the balance of payments into reverse for only the second time in three decades. The yen is at a historic high against the dollar, making Japanese products expensive abroad, and the political situation remains unstable, with the Democratic party government able to push through a VAT rise only on a promise of early elections.

And let's not forget the eurozone crisis. That continues to provide plenty of food for thought for IMF officials, given the failure to deal with Spain's financial black hole and growing public unrest among southern Europe's increasingly desperate citizens.

Yet it is the Japan/China dispute that is worrying them most. Japan believes the Chinese are wilfully making trouble: it has stressed that it bought the islands earlier this year to keep them out of the hands of the mayor of Tokyo, a Boris Johnson-style character with a populist enmity towards the Chinese community in Japan.

Maybe Beijing thinks it can go it alone without Japanese investment. It would be wrong, and the decision could have implications for us all.

China should remember no country is an island in a globalised world | Business | The Observer


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## Viet

Methu_Xie said:


> The Current Prime Minister of Japan is a fool



Wait after election, you will see another fool who will act tougher on China: Shinz&#333; Abe

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## ahfatzia

Abe is not going to be more hawkish when he's elected and all these bellicosity are simply election time rhetoric. When a person of an open society assumes power he has to tame down and do what's best for the country. (see Obama)

One hypothetical question: What would Japan do if China signs off the future claim of Okinawa, would Japan gives up the Diaoyu claim in a hurry if there's a face saving way to do it?


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## Zero_wing

kankan326 said:


> USA taking military exercises in frond of China's door is sign of world peace. While China doing the same thing in her own territory is sign of making things complicated. Weird



Because your claims are not realistic and not the norm of the plant and we been doing military maneuvers with the states since world war 2 so its natural next to air while your going this to show off and plant fear to your neighbors well its just making things bad for your country's case.


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## Zero_wing

ahfatzia said:


> Abe is not going to be more hawkish when he's elected and all these bellicosity are simply election time rhetoric. When a person of an open society assumes power he has to tame down and do what's best for the country. (see Obama)
> 
> One hypothetical question: What would Japan do if China signs off the future claim of Okinawa, would Japan gives up the Diaoyu claim in a hurry if there's a face saving way to do it?



Nope will see the East Fleet of china in the bottom as artificial coral reefs but i think its bad for the marine life chinese products are hazardous


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> Abe is not going to be more hawkish when he's elected


Well, this is not the first time Abe's being the prime minister and we know what he was like the last time, so yes you can bet on Abe being Abe the ultra rightwinger, but with Ishihara and Hashimoto Toru by his sides.



> One hypothetical question: What would Japan do if China signs off the future claim of Okinawa, would Japan gives up the Diaoyu claim in a hurry if there's a face saving way to do it?


No country on earth other than China recognizes that there is even a territorial dispute on Okinawa, the world simply will laugh off China's claim(Same as China threatening to claim Hawaii before Hillary Clinton).

Japan's policy on Diaoyudai is simple: they will accept the ICJ challenges on Diayudai, and is urging Korea and Russia too head to the ICJ.


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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> Well, this is not the first time Abe's being the prime minister and we know what he was like the last time, so yes you can bet on Abe being Abe the ultra rightwinger, but with Ishihara and Hashimoto Toru by his sides.
> 
> 
> No country on earth other than China recognizes that there is even a territorial dispute on Okinawa, the world simply will laugh off China's claim(Same as China threatening to claim Hawaii before Hillary Clinton).
> 
> Japan's policy on Diaoyudai is simple: they will accept the ICJ challenges on Diayudai, and is urging Korea and Russia too head to the ICJ.




Then in such a case China certainly will welcome a hawkish Japan. It will force the big trouble maker in this area to show his cards in terms of his 4-way alliance and will have to choose favoritism. Taking Taiwan, Korea and Russia into considerations China simply just can not lose if a 'hawkish team' in charged. She won't wait for the outcomes either but instead will provoke them into actions. How hard it is to provoke a man like Ishihara?  Win win for China. 

You never know what the future will bring. If the US can 'award' Okinawa to Japan in the 70s anything can happen a century from that date.

ICJ is for weaklings and losers.

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## terranMarine

ahfatzia said:


> *The 4th Media » A Japanese Ex-diplomat Accuses the Sino-Japanese Rift Part of US Agenda: The Truth Behind the Post-war History*


*

GM is doing pretty well since Chinese people started boycotting Japanese brands. US might not have intended to use Japan as a strategy against China when they assigned administration rights to Japan at the beginning but that's not the case in recent years. Even some Japanese politicians think so but it's probably too late to restore the damaged relations. It doesn't matter China is doing pretty well while you can only find negative news coming from Japan.*


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## ahfatzia

terranMarine said:


> GM is doing pretty well since Chinese people started boycotting Japanese brands. US might not have intended to use Japan as a strategy against China when they assigned administration rights to Japan at the beginning but that's not the case in recent years. Even some Japanese politicians think so but it's probably too late to restore the damaged relations. It doesn't matter China is doing pretty well while you can only find negative news coming from Japan.




But I have to laugh at some Filipino posting some random article on: *"China should remember no country is an island in a globalised world. Beijing's fight with Japan over the Senkaku islands could have worldwide ramifications" * like other countries really care about these two-bit disputes. Here's an answer for them:

In 2006, the US is the biggest trading partner for 127 countries versus China's 70

In 2011, China has 124 while the US has 76

According to this trend you can be rest assured China is gaining on as the biggest trading partner for more countries to come and in this stage and age your biggest trading partner *IS* your biggest friend. Don't let someone fool you by saying otherwise.

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/china/AJ201211300008


BTW opinions can be differ but numbers don't lie.


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## terranMarine

ahfatzia said:


> But I have to laugh at some Filipino posting some random article on: *"China should remember no country is an island in a globalised world. Beijing's fight with Japan over the Senkaku islands could have worldwide ramifications" * like other countries really care about these two-bit disputes. Here's an answer for them:
> 
> In 2006, the US is the biggest trading partner for 127 countries versus China's 70
> 
> In 2011, China has 124 while the US has 76
> 
> According to this trend you can be rest assured China is gaining on as the biggest trading partner for more countries to come and in this stage and age your biggest trading partner *IS* your biggest friend. Don't let someone fool you by saying otherwise.
> 
> China overtaking U.S. as global trader - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun
> 
> 
> BTW opinions can be differ but numbers don't lie.



Worldwide ramification lol let me wake this Pinoy's dream, in EU nobody f*cking care about the Diaoyu islands. The EU crisis is the only thing they can think of even the US fiscal cliff has more attention than our disputes.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

ahfatzia said:


> Then in such a case China certainly will welcome a hawkish Japan. It will force the big trouble maker in this area to show his cards in terms of his 4-way alliance and will have to choose favoritism. Taking Taiwan, Korea and Russia into considerations China simply just can not lose if a 'hawkish team' in charged. She won't wait for the outcomes either but instead will provoke them into actions. How hard it is to provoke a man like Ishihara?  Win win for China.
> 
> You never know what the future will bring. If the US can 'award' Okinawa to Japan in the 70s anything can happen a century from that date.
> 
> *ICJ is for weaklings and losers*.



Barbarians settle their dispute with war. Civilized countries settle their dispute thru international mediation(ICJ).


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## ahfatzia

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Barbarians settle their dispute with war. Civilized countries settle their dispute thru international mediation(ICJ).




LOL since you're so good in researches and always come up with "*I found this*" why don't you tell me, since the beginning of time, how many territorial disputes are solved by civilized countries involving ICJ and how many were settled with bare knuckles barbarian ways.


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## doidoi2

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Barbarians settle their dispute with war. Civilized countries settle their dispute thru international mediation(ICJ).



If this is true, then America is the most barbaric nation of the past century.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

terranMarine said:


> Worldwide ramification lol let me wake this Pinoy's dream, in EU nobody f*cking care about the Diaoyu islands. The EU crisis is the only thing they can think of even the US fiscal cliff has more attention than our disputes.



Good luck to all of you if you think that way.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

ahfatzia said:


> But I have to laugh at some Filipino posting some random article on: *"China should remember no country is an island in a globalised world. Beijing's fight with Japan over the Senkaku islands could have worldwide ramifications" * like other countries really care about these two-bit disputes. Here's an answer for them:
> 
> In 2006, the US is the biggest trading partner for 127 countries versus China's 70
> 
> In 2011, China has 124 while the US has 76
> 
> According to this trend you can be rest assured China is gaining on as the biggest trading partner for more countries to come and* in this stage and age your biggest trading partner IS your biggest friend.* Don't let someone fool you by saying otherwise.
> 
> China overtaking U.S. as global trader - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun
> 
> 
> BTW opinions can be differ but numbers don't lie.



We'll still view China as a *predator* and a *crook* even if in the future China becomes our biggest trading partner.


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## ahfatzia

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> We'll still view China as a *predator* and a *crook* even if in the future China becomes our biggest trading partner.




Name calling now? I though you're a by product of a civilized society that only rely on your researches and debating skills here.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

ahfatzia said:


> LOL since you're so good in researches and always come up with "*I found this*" why don't you tell me, since the beginning of time, how many territorial disputes are solved by civilized countries involving ICJ and how many were settled with bare knuckles barbarian ways.



You can research that if you want. But I can tell you that we have already used international arbitration in settling territorial dispute in the past. Within Southeast Asia, Thailand and Cambodia have done it, Malaysia and Indonesia have done it, Malaysia and Singapore have done it. 

*Island of Palmas Case*

Island of Palmas Case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ahfatzia

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> You can research that if you want. But I can tell you that we have already used international arbitration in settling territorial dispute in the past. Within Southeast Asia, Thailand and Cambodia have done it, Malaysia and Indonesia have done it, Malaysia and Singapore have done it.
> 
> *Island of Palmas Case*
> 
> Island of Palmas Case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




LOL that's not even amount to 1% of how the Brits solved its territorial disputes. They just took it.


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> Then in such a case China certainly will welcome a hawkish Japan. It will force the big trouble maker in this area to show his cards in terms of his 4-way alliance and will have to choose favoritism.



The four way alliance cannot happen because the US makes sure it won't.

The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Japan Can&#39;t Push Dokdo Suit at Int&#39;l Court This Year



> "The Obama administration dissuaded Tokyo from bringing the matter to the ICJ for fear of aggravating anti-Japanese feelings in Korea and hurting trilateral cooperation between Seoul, Washington, and Tokyo," a diplomatic source in Seoul said.
> 
> "It has become virtually impossible for Japan to bring the question of Dokdo to the ICJ this year, as Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda has pledged to dissolve parliament soon and call general elections next month," another source said.





> You never know what the future will bring. If the US can 'award' Okinawa to Japan in the 70s anything can happen a century from that date.


Okinawan resident voted to be reverted to Japan back in the 1970s. The US gave Okinawa residents two choices; become an independent country or revert to Japan; Okinawa resident chose to return to Japan, so the US made the arrangements accordingly. This is why Chinese claims on Okinawa doesn't stick, because of that Okinawa resident vote.

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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> The four way alliance cannot happen because the US makes sure it won't.
> 
> Okinawan resident voted to be reverted to Japan back in the 1970s. The US gave Okinawa residents two choices; become an independent country or revert to Japan; Okinawa resident chose to return to Japan, so the US made the arrangements accordingly. This is why Chinese claims on Okinawa doesn't stick, because of that Okinawa resident vote.




You misunderstand my 4 way alliance. I meant daddy and his 3 love children which will eventually breaks up if the hawkish Abe will do what he promised during his campaign.

Oh sure the Okinawan voted to join Japan without any tempering from parties concerned.  They never feel they are a part of Japan and the feelings are probably mutual with the Japanese. Things do change and will change when the time is right.







_Downs and ups: Then-Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama speaks to Okinawa Gov. Hirokazu Nakaima in Okinawa in May 2010. KYODO_

Okinawa takes base row into its own hands | The Japan Times Online


See the writings on the wall?


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> Oh sure the Okinawan voted to join Japan without any tempering from parties concerned.



The US actually preferred that Okinawans choose to go independent so that the US government could negotiate directly with the Okinawan government instead of Tokyo on the US presence in Okinawa. But what's clear is that the US administered referendum was democratic and it was the people's decision.



> They never feel they are a part of Japan and the feelings are probably mutual with the Japanese. Things do change and will change when the time is right.



Well, Okinawans felt that they would be better off being protected by Japan than to stand alone economically. The large percentage of Okinawa's economy is US military bases and the financial aid from Tokyo.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

ahfatzia said:


> LOL that's not even amount to 1% of how the Brits solved its territorial disputes. They just took it.



That's all in the past. China's logic today is that if western powers could get away from land grabbing in the past, then she could do the same thing today...and it's a totally flawed logic. China signed UNCLOS, and yet violates the UNCLOS agreement everyday with her neighbors in the Yellow Sea and South China Seas.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Barbarians settle their dispute with war. Civilized countries settle their dispute thru international mediation(ICJ).



When your nation is weak, this kind of statement suite you, but you will not say the same when your nation is strong.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

ahfatzia said:


> Name calling now? I though you're a by product of a civilized society that only rely on your researches and debating skills here.



name calling; to make ones self feel better about ones self or aspects of ones behavior by putting others down. 

You should read the *bold part* of post #5 page1...that's what I call "name-calling."


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## ahfatzia

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> That's all in the past. China's logic today is that if western powers could get away from land grabbing in the past, then she could do the same thing today...and it's a totally flawed logic. China signed UNCLOS, and yet violates the UNCLOS agreement everyday with her neighbors in the Yellow Sea and South China Seas.




Your spinning is lame, China did not once violates any country's territorial water. I challenge your land grabbing comment. As I said I care less for your personal opinion so bring me facts instead of these outlandish insinuation.

Hahaha, precisely. That's the guy you love to use so much to prove your point. Little did you know his opinion about the Filipinos.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

ahfatzia said:


> Your spinning is lame, China did not once violates any country's territorial water. I challenge your land grabbing comment. As I said I care less for your personal opinion so bring me facts instead of these outlandish insinuation.



Mischief reef.


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## ahfatzia

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Mischief reef.




It belong to China or at least on China's perspective. (last off topic post)


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## WuMaoCleverbot

ahfatzia said:


> It belong to China or at least on China's perspective. (last off topic post)



Can you post China's basis of ownership of Mischief reef??? They first build a hut there and told us it's a shelter for Chinese fishermen, now it's a Chinese garrison.

*Mischief Reef*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1994, the PRC built the initial structures on stilts here while the Philippine Navy was not patrolling the area due to a monsoon season. Since the reef is just 130 miles (209 km) away from Palawan, well inside the Philippines' EEZ, the Philippines immediately protested this action. However, China rejected the protest and stressed that the structures were shelter for fishermen. In 1999, another wave of protests from Manila occurred when China added more structures to Mischief Reef which resembled military installations more closely than shelters for fishermen.[2]

Mischief Reef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Viet

ahfatzia said:


> Abe is not going to be more hawkish when he's elected and all these bellicosity are simply election time rhetoric. When a person of an open society assumes power he has to tame down and do what's best for the country. (see Obama)
> 
> One hypothetical question: What would Japan do if China signs off the future* claim of Okinawa*, would Japan gives up the Diaoyu claim in a hurry if there's a face saving way to do it?



We will see after election, if it is just rhetoric. Abe has some nice ideas how to increase the strength of country defence, and last but not least how to revive the economy. Personally I support him.

Claim of Okinawa? You are joking! forget this. 
If China claims Okinawa, you will see another row of tension with Japan. China should know that like Vietnam, Japan is not an easy meal.


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## ahfatzia

*Nationalist Strains Echo on Japan Campaign Trail*








*Be careful what you wish for. US officials have long urged Japan to loosen limits on its military, bear more of the burden of its own defense and play a more prominent global role.*

Now, Japanese politicians gearing up for a Dec. 16 parliamentary election are promising to do just that &#8212; but with a strain of strident nationalism that could give not only Asian neighbors but also Washington cause for concern.

*&#8220;Who can protect Japan&#8217;s beautiful seas? Who can protect our territory and our people&#8217;s lives?&#8221; asked former Prime Minister **Shinzo Abe*, standing before a huge Japanese national flag as he blasted the current government&#8217;s handling of a territorial row with China in a recent speech.

*&#8220;The crisis is before our very eyes ... We will take back our country, our nation.&#8221;*

Opinion *polls suggest Abe&#8217;s opposition Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) will win the most seats in parliament&#8217;s lower house*, putting the hawkish lawmaker in pole position to become Japan&#8217;s seventh prime minister in six years. He abruptly quit the job in 2007, when the LDP was in power, after a troubled year in office.

Parts of *Abe&#8217;s agenda, including calls to drop Japan&#8217;s self-imposed ban on exercising its right of collective self-defense*, or *defending an ally under attack, and to boost defense spending after years of decline*, would be welcome in Washington.

*Abe also wants to revise Japan&#8217;s US-drafted constitution*, never altered since it was adopted after World War Two. *US officials **have indicated in the past that they would like to see Tokyo loosen constitutional restraints on its military *to allow a bigger global security role.

But other aspects, such as an aggressive stance toward China that risks aggravating an already tense territorial row, and a desire to rewrite what conservatives see as overly apologetic accounts of Japan&#8217;s wartime past, would not only upset China and South Korea but the United States as well.

&#8220;The United States has been welcoming, even encouraging nationalist politicians as long as they are keen on reform and that Japan should share more burden in the security arrangement,&#8221; said Sophia University professor Koichi Nakano.

&#8220;But maybe they are beginning to realize that the Japanese right is going too far and *setting Japan on a collision course with China that might require American involvement.&#8221;*

Abe, a 58-year-old political blue-blood, is hardly alone in his hawkish stance.

Popular Osaka Mayor *Toru Hashimoto*&#8217;s Japan Restoration Party, officially headed by former Tokyo Governor *Shintaro **Ishihara*, an outspoken nationalist and China critic, comes in second in some recent opinion polls &#8212; ahead of Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda&#8217;s Democratic Party of Japan (DPJ).

*Islands Row*

Ishihara sparked the row with China over tiny islands claimed by both countries by floating a plan for the Tokyo Metropolitan Government to buy them from private owners, which pushed the central government to purchase them instead.

The 80-year-old Ishihara has also called for Japan, the only country to suffer an atomic bombing, to consider nuclear arms.

How far such hawkish rhetoric resonates with ordinary voters in a country that has prided itself on its peaceful path since its defeat in World War Two is hard to gauge.

A Kyodo news agency survey in mid-November put pensions and the economy at the top of voters&#8217; election concerns and an analysis of election-related tweets published by the Asahi newspaper showed comments about nuclear power &#8212; a key public concern after last year&#8217;s Fukushima radiation disaster &#8212; far outstripped remarks about diplomacy and the constitution.

Still, China&#8217;s growing assertiveness in maritime feuds is compounding Japanese concerns about its neighbor&#8217;s rising military and economic clout. Flag-waving and expressions of patriotism are no longer the taboo they once were in Japan.

News that North Korea is planning a long-range missile test this month is also likely to give fresh impetus to calls for Japan to have stronger defenses and could give an election boost to Abe, known for his tough stance toward Pyongyang.

Waseda University Professor Masaru Kohno said his recent Internet surveys show younger Japanese increasingly keen to see the government take a tough stance toward Beijing and Seoul.

*&#8220;The phenomena [territorial rows] are not entirely new, but the reaction is extraordinary so maybe you have to think the mood of the nation is tied to something like economic conditions or being politically fed up,*&#8221; Kohno said. *&#8220;It&#8217;s not like an ideological surge to the right, it&#8217;s more like frustration.&#8221;*

Some fear that such frustration is translating into a longing for a strong leader, regardless of policy content.

&#8220;Fundamentally, the Japanese people are looking for leadership with a clear sense of direction,&#8221; said a former US diplomat. &#8220;Abe&#8217;s way of addressing this is to project strong views associated with nationalism.&#8221;

*Some pundits and political sources predict Abe, who quickly moved to repair chilly ties with China *as premier in 2006, would again tack to the center if he takes office, not least because the LDP will probably need its long-time and more moderate coalition partner, the New Komeito, to form a government.

Others say pressure from Hashimoto&#8217;s Restoration Party on the right means shifting gears would not be easy.

&#8220;There could be cause for concern if the level of rhetoric is sustained and there isn&#8217;t an effort to deal with things in a practical way in Asia,&#8221; the former US diplomat said.* &#8220;At the end of the day, what really counts is after the campaign.&#8221;*

Nationalist Strains Echo on Japan Campaign Trail | The Jakarta Globe


Very interesting, let see how Abe will lead the nation into this path: *"We will take back our country, our nation."*


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## Soryu

ahfatzia said:


> It belong to China or at least on China's perspective. (last off topic post)





ahfatzia said:


> Your spinning is lame, China did not once violates any country's territorial water. I challenge your land grabbing comment. As I said I care less for your personal opinion so bring me facts instead of these outlandish insinuation.
> 
> Hahaha, precisely. That's the guy you love to use so much to prove your point. Little did you know his opinion about the Filipinos.



Sorry guy, you have weird thought. So, if china claim something ( like other's EEZ), then it will belong to china !? And china will not violates anything, right!?

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## jhungary

Soryu said:


> Sorry guy, you have weird thought. So, if china claim something ( like other's EEZ), then it will belong to china !? And china will not violates anything, right!?



not that i want to comment but what ahfatzia said in this instant is right.



> Your spinning is lame, *China did not once violates any country's territorial water*. I challenge your land grabbing comment. As I said I care less for your personal opinion so bring me facts instead of these outlandish insinuation.



EEZ is not territorial water. Teritorial water ended 12 nautical mile outside your land based coast line. EEZ is the area within 200 Nautical mile. It does not have territorial right for an country, only economic right. Having *Foreign Warship* within someone EEZ is allowed as per freedom of navigation rules under UNCLOS. 

EEZ only gave the country's owning the EEZ power to board commerical shipping, anything other than commercial shipping is fair game. Unless you accuse the Chinese Military vessel doing business deal in your EEZ..........

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## ahfatzia

Soryu said:


> Sorry guy, you have weird thought. So, if china claim something ( like other's EEZ), then it will belong to china !? And china will not violates anything, right!?




So how do you explain Vietnam occupies 40 islands, 18 of them are within Philippines' EEZ, in SCS? Didn't your country claim properties that belong to others and took them without permissions?


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> *Be careful what you wish for. US officials have long urged Japan to loosen limits on its military, bear more of the burden of its own defense and play a more prominent global role.*
> 
> Now, Japanese politicians gearing up for a Dec. 16 parliamentary election are promising to do just that  but with a strain of strident nationalism that could give not only Asian neighbors but also Washington cause for concern.


What America wants is an ally that is eager to pull trigger, not some useless pacifist that won't fight.

The US would be happy to see an aggressive militarized Japan eager to go to war with China because such Japan is an asset in the US strategy planning around the world, not a reliability that needs to be defended right now.

The US can send two carrier battle groups into the South China Sea at any given moment. That strength being matched by two Japanese carrier battle groups means doubling of the power that the US can utilize.


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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> What America wants is an ally that is eager to pull trigger, not some useless pacifist that won't fight.
> 
> The US would be happy to see an aggressive militarized Japan eager to go to war with China because such Japan is an asset in the US strategy planning around the world, not a reliability that needs to be defended right now.
> 
> The US can send two carrier battle groups into the South China Sea at any given moment. That strength being matched by two Japanese carrier battle groups means doubling of the power that the US can utilize.




Such wishful thinking. What the US is going to do, invade China with the help of a re-militarized Japan? WWII all over again? Don't forget, Dokdo is the only Japan's perceived territory that's under foreign occupation. If Japan wants to take back the country and the nation, as Abe said, Dokdo will be the first target.

As for China, she'll just sit back and enjoy the show (of breaking up) while patrolling the Diaoyu's littoral water on a regular basis.


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> Such wishful thinking. What the US is going to do, invade China with the help of a re-militarized Japan?



No, just contain China via the AirSea battle concept, where the control of the sea around China is critical.



> Dokdo is the only Japan's perceived territory that's under foreign occupation.


And the Kurils.

But as you have seen, the US backs Korean position on the Liancourt Rocks, and will ensure nothing happens there, both diplomatically and militarily. This is why the US backs going to ICJ for all of island disputes in the South China Sea, Diaoyudai, and Kurils, but OPPOSES the Liancourt rocks settlement at the ICJ.


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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> No, just contain China via the AirSea battle concept, where the control of the sea around China is critical.
> 
> 
> And the Kurils.
> 
> But as you have seen, the US backs Korean position on the Liancourt Rocks, and will ensure nothing happens there, both diplomatically and militarily. This is why the US backs going to ICJ for all of island disputes in the South China Sea, Diaoyudai, and Kurils, but OPPOSES the Liancourt rocks settlement at the ICJ.




When a country is meant to rise nothing will contain it and besides China has plenty of time because she doesn't have tons of bills to pay.

Yeah, I forgot Kuril Islands and it's getting more interesting for China and Korea but more headaches for the other duos. 

So Korea is the favorite after all. Poor Japan as she doesn't have enough on her plate already and now, thanks to your logic, she's the one being isolated.


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> When a country is meant to rise nothing will contain it and besides China has plenty of time because she doesn't have tons of bills to pay.


Surely China does. China's massive aging population coming into retirement. China's becoming an old-age country even before it can break $10K GDP per capita.


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## terranMarine

ahfatzia said:


> So how do you explain Vietnam occupies 40 islands, 18 of them are within Philippines' EEZ, in SCS? Didn't your country claim properties that belong to others and took them without permissions?



You still have the link to the map with those islands? You should circle these 18 islands occupied by Vietnam and let these Vietcongs explain.


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## Soryu

ahfatzia said:


> So how do you explain Vietnam occupies 40 islands, 18 of them are within Philippines' EEZ, in SCS? Didn't your country claim properties that belong to others and took them without permissions?


Sorry guy, You misunderstand about situation, Vietnam claim the Islands under the sovereignty of the vietnam and occupies it, only that, Vietnam do not claim Philippines' EEZ is territorial water of Vietnam. Vietnam don't violate UNCLOS. 

China claim over 80% SCS by nine *** line belong to her, but how to claim it!? And China take Islands from other by forces, do more provocative actions to other country, claim everyting belong to her. _I just want to ask: What is real of nine *** lines!?_


jhungary said:


> not that i want to comment but what ahfatzia said in this instant is right.
> 
> 
> 
> EEZ is not territorial water. Teritorial water ended 12 nautical mile outside your land based coast line. EEZ is the area within 200 Nautical mile. It does not have territorial right for an country, only economic right. Having *Foreign Warship* within someone EEZ is allowed as per freedom of navigation rules under UNCLOS.
> 
> EEZ only gave the country's owning the EEZ power to board commerical shipping, anything other than commercial shipping is fair game. Unless you accuse the Chinese Military vessel doing business deal in your EEZ..........


I know that. I say it with intentionally. EEZ is not territorial water, but China even claim over 80% SCS and say the other violates her territorial water and sovereignty.
Chinese Military vessel doing many thing provocative in the nine *** lines draw by herself.

I stop here, because off topic.


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## terranMarine

Korean said:


> Surely China does. China's massive aging population coming into retirement. China's becoming an old-age country even before it can break $10K GDP per capita.



Forgetting Japan is the fastest in this aspect? Extreme low birth rate in Japan is well known


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## Korean

terranMarine said:


> Forgetting Japan is the fastest in this aspect? Extreme low birth rate in Japan is well known


Japan is like a 60 year old man with $1 million in the retirement account.
China is like a 60 year old man with $10K in the bank account.

Japan will do fine in its old age, while China won't do well. This is why the one child policy was a great mistake, and why India with its low median age overtaking China is inevitable.


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## ahfatzia

terranMarine said:


> You still have the link to the map with those islands? You should circle these 18 islands occupied by Vietnam and let these Vietcongs explain.




Vietnam claim is just as much as China and her propaganda is to put the spot light on China.








I wish I know how to use photoshop and highlight Vietnam possessions within the Filipino's EEZ. LOL brothers in arm.


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## terranMarine

Korean said:


> Japan is like a 60 year old man with $1 million in the retirement account.
> China is like a 60 year old man with $10K in the bank account.
> 
> Japan will do fine in its old age, while China won't do well. This is why the one child policy was a great mistake, and why India with its low median age overtaking China is inevitable.



Expecting seniors to serve the defense force?


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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> Japan is like a 60 year old man with $1 million in the retirement account.
> China is like a 60 year old man with $10K in the bank account.
> 
> Japan will do fine in its old age, while China won't do well. This is why the one child policy was a great mistake, and why India with its low median age overtaking China is inevitable.




Unfortunate for the Japanese, if in fact they have a million saved up per person, the government had borrowed and used them all and much more to be needed to fix their problems. Where as China's 10k/per person is earning interests, however little, in various sovereign bonds.


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## terranMarine

ahfatzia said:


> Vietnam claim is just as much as China and her propaganda is to put the spot light on China.
> I wish I know how to use photoshop and highlight Vietnam possessions within the Filipino's EEZ. LOL brothers in arm.



Basically it's all the pink circles within the orange line. No need for photoshop you can use windows mspaint to open the jpg file and use the available tools to draw circles/squares.

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## Viet

ahfatzia said:


> So how do you explain *Vietnam occupies 40 islands,* 18 of them are within Philippines' EEZ, in SCS? Didn't your country claim properties that belong to others and took them without permissions?



I wonder how do you get this number?
Has anyone a complete list who occupies which island in the SCS?


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## shuttler

Japan's new ambassador will seek to heal wounds |Asia-Pacific |chinadaily.com.cn

Updated: 2012-12-08 00:06 By ZHOU WA ( China Daily)

China on Friday urged Japan to make practical effort to improve deadlocked China-Japan ties, as Japan's new ambassador to China, Masato Kitera, said he attached importance to bilateral ties in an interview with Japanese media.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said at a daily news briefing on Friday that it is in the interests of both countries and their people to develop healthy China-Japan ties, and Japan should demonstrate sincerity and make serious efforts to solve current disputes.




_Masato Kitera,Japanese ambassador to China
_

Hong's remarks came after Masato Kitera, who will be posted in China on Dec 25, told Kyodo News his opinions on current bilateral ties in an exclusive interview on Thursday.

It would be beneficial to the interests of both peoples to look at the big picture on bilateral relations and try to improve China-Japan ties, Kitera was quoted by Kyodo as saying, adding that he will hold talks with Chinese people from all walks of life after he arrives in China.

Analysts applauded Kitera's expectation that he will improve frayed bilateral ties, but they said that what he actually does is more important than what he says now.

Kitera's remarks must reflect the Japanese government's attitude toward China, especially the attitude of whoever is going to win the election on Dec 16, said Wang Ping, a researcher of Japanese studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

"Before Kitera arrives in China, he is supposed to have communications with both current ruling and opposition parties," she said, adding that whoever wins will try to improve Sino-Japanese ties.

Some people in Japan, especially those from the economic sector, are unhappy with the setbacks in China-Japan ties and want an improvement in bilateral relations to avoid further losses, said Feng Wei, a professor of Japanese studies at Fudan University in Shanghai.

Compared with Kitera's remarks, the Japanese government's China policy counts more in terms of improving bilateral relations, Wang said.

China-Japan ties worsened after the Japanese government illegally "purchased" China's Diaoyu Islands, a move that triggered a series of protests and countermeasures from the Chinese side.

At the end of the 1894-95 Sino-Japanese War, Japan stole the Diaoyu Islands, which have belonged to China for centuries. Key legal documents during and after World War II, including the Cairo Declaration, returned the islands to China.

In the interview with Kyodo, the ambassador emphasized several times his personal connections with China, saying that one character of his name originated from Wuchang, a district in Hubei province's Wuhan city, although he admitted that his "understanding of China is limited".

Wang, the Japanese studies researcher, said the ambassador is trying to get close to Chinese people before he arrives in the country so that he can do a better job.

"The Japanese public should not be influenced by extreme nationalism &#8213; that is important," the ambassador said, warning people not to make unverified assumptions about Chinese military power.

Such gestures show Kitera's goodwill to the Chinese public and his attempts to reduce their hostility against Japan before his arrival, Huang said.

Kitera, 60, served as Japan's assistant chief Cabinet secretary since 2011 until he was appointed the country's new ambassador to China on Nov 22.

When Kitera takes office in a little more than two weeks, the months-long wait for a successor to Uichiro Niwa will end. Tokyo was not satisfied with Niwa for straying from Tokyo's hard-line stance on the Diaoyu Islands in a June interview with the Financial Times.

The new ambassador is not one of the politicians from the Japanese Foreign Ministry who knows China well, Wang said. He will focus on implementing the new government's China policy after the election next week, she added.

Japan's political parties will try to make full use of the final days to win the election following the earthquake on Friday. But the quake will have a limited effect on the election, Wang said.






Korean said:


> Japan is like a 60 year old man with $1 million in the retirement account.
> China is like a 60 year old man with $10K in the bank account.
> 
> Japan will do fine in its old age, while China won't do well. This is why the one child policy was a great mistake, and why India with its low median age overtaking China is inevitable.



By the time China's GDP per capita reaches $10K, we will have 100 million of our folks who are multiple millionaires

at its population growth rate, india, your home country is a large looming trouble for the world
over half of its people are poor, more than 300 million live on $1 a day

to talk about your " demographic dividend " is another joke with poor taste common with the cheerleading delusionals

This is what's happening in india and its indian youth:



> *Not many have had the opportunity to see the real face of growing India. I count myself in one of those fortunate few who could manage this chance. I have seen a part of the visage of growing youth  often called the future of our country. And believe me, its a countenance you would never want to see. Its a face of India that everyone knows pretty well but chooses to ignore leaving the things the way they are. There are several problems that an average Indian youth faces today ranging from child labour and sexual exploitation to low education standards. But one among them rules them all  DRUGS.
> 
> Since the last decade, this country is in jeopardy like it has never been before. I am not talking about an epidemic of disease but about the hurricane of drugs. The drug menace in this country is something which very few people know about. Digest this statistic to know about the gravity of the situation  Today 73.5% of the total youth population of Punjab alone is addicted to drugs, three-quarters of Punjab youth have succumbed to the trap. Let us have a brief look at the picture of what drug taking is in the country. The rich ones afford expensive drugs like heroin, smack, husk and opium while the poor ones tend to go for the cheaper substitutes like Iodex, petrol.*
> 
> Read more at DRUG ABUSE IN INDIA GROWING: Will Drugs Suck The Life Out Of India?



****************

India becoming hub of drugs: Report

****************

india gives up taking international educational test

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Time to take over Japan, some of these Nationlist leaders have no idea what is happening in world , they need to respect Chinese territories and stop paying money to anger chinese government


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## ahfatzia

Viet said:


> I wonder how do you get this number?
> Has anyone a complete list who occupies which island in the SCS?




*The 52 Spratly Islands plus smaller territories are currently controlled by Vietnam (40), the Philippines (9), China (7), Malaysia (5) and Taiwan (1).*

China Claims 90% of Spratly Islands, Actually Controls 13% | News, Investment commentary and Geopolitical analysis of China, India and emerging Asia


As for the 18 islands that lie within the Philippines EEZ you could count them on the map I posted. 

Now let's stay Diaoyu, anything concerning SCS, we'll go to the SCS sticky thread.


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## ahfatzia

*China's First Island Chain Defense Doctrine
*

In an era where strategic security depends upon supply lines and natural resources, the People&#8217;s Republic of China has been devoting much time and thought into developing a navy capable of defending its lifeline of energy and mineral supplies. 

The first island chain has its purpose in Chinese military doctrine. China views the first island chain as the area it must secure and disable from American bases, aircraft and aircraft-carrier groups, if in defending itself it must tactically unleash a pre-emptive attack against an enemy. The aim of the doctrine is to seal off the Yellow Sea, South China Sea and East China Sea inside an arc running from the Aleutians in the north to Borneo in the south. According to reports by American think tanks CSBA and RAND, by 2020, China will be well on its way to having the means to achieve its first island chain policy.


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> The first island chain has its purpose in Chinese military doctrine. China views the first island chain as the area it must secure and disable from American bases, aircraft and aircraft-carrier groups, if in defending itself it must tactically unleash a pre-emptive attack against an enemy.


That's called China's Pearl Harbor, which results in the defeat of China.

The cold hard truth is that the US controls inside the first Island Chain with two specific blockade points, Okinawa and Jeju Island.

The Jeju blockade point can become particularly deadly for China, as it can host two US carrier battle groups simultanously(Okinawa cannot permanently base carriers, while Jeju can), plus the eventual deployment of Korea's 300 km supersonic antiship missile, which can strike any Chinese warships in the Yellow and East China Sea from land based launchers(No warship needed).

Unless China can improve its ship defense system to the US standard, the PLAN cannot avoid the eventual defeat; and that's exactly what the simulation are predicting; the JMSDF alone can wipe out China's two battle fleets.

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## terranMarine

Someone here is anxious for South Korea, Japan and USA declaring war to China. We have to thanks Korea for teaching us the threats we are facing at the moment.


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## Korean

terranMarine said:


> Someone here is anxious for South Korea, Japan and USA declaring war to China. We have to thanks Korea for teaching us the threats we are facing at the moment.



The PLA already knows.


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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> That's called China's Pearl Harbor, which results in the defeat of China.
> 
> The cold hard truth is that the US controls inside the first Island Chain with two specific blockade points, Okinawa and Jeju Island.
> 
> The Jeju blockade point can become particularly deadly for China, as it can host two US carrier battle groups simultanously(Okinawa cannot permanently base carriers, while Jeju can), plus the eventual deployment of Korea's 300 km supersonic antiship missile, which can strike any Chinese warships in the Yellow and East China Sea from land based launchers(No warship needed).
> 
> Unless China can improve its ship defense system to the US standard, the PLAN cannot avoid the eventual defeat; and that's exactly what the simulation are predicting; the JMSDF alone can wipe out China's two battle fleets.




Like I always insisted time changes everything. The way Japan is moving toward I wouldn't surprised Ry&#363;ky&#363; independence movement &#29705;&#29699;&#29420;&#31435;&#36939;&#21205; will gain momentum; and who knows, Jeju might becomes China's front line defense against Japan someday. 

Let's just hope Abe wins, as you wished, and Ishihara becomes the defense minister.


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> Like I always insisted time changes everything.


Yes, the eventual formation of Asian NATO.



> I wouldn't surprised Ry&#363;ky&#363; independence movement &#29705;&#29699;&#29420;&#31435;&#36939;&#21205; will gain momentum


You will be surprised because Okinawans don't want to go independent now; they just want to reduce the US bases in Okinawa.

So unless China guarantees a $10 billion annual payment to the independent Okinawa to replace Tokyo aids, it won't happen. 



> and who knows, Jeju might becomes China's front line defense against Japan someday.


That day will never come, I will guarantee you that.

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## terranMarine

Asian NATO? Maybe after all disputes have been resolved lol


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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> Yes, the eventual formation of Asian NATO.
> 
> 
> You will be surprised because Okinawans don't want to go independent now; they just want to reduce the US bases in Okinawa.
> 
> So unless China guarantees a $10 billion annual payment to the independent Okinawa to replace Tokyo aids, it won't happen.
> 
> 
> That day will never come, I will guarantee you that.




$10 billion annually is a cheap price to pay to get rid of the Americans if you consider how much the US and Japan have to lay out every year just to have a peace of mind on threats that never came. 

You left your country for too long to know the 'fears of Japan' still run extremely high on every Korean's mind. They will be the first ones take actions if Japan is going to re-militarized.


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## terranMarine

Nah i rather China spend the extra $10 bln on defense than on Okinawa getting independence. Japan is already in big problem financially let them continue to pay the US expenses for having them around.


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## ahfatzia

terranMarine said:


> Nah i rather China spend the extra $10 bln on defense than on Okinawa getting independence. Japan is already in big problem financially let them continue to pay the US expenses for having them around.




The US has nuclear assets in Okinawa and I suppose one would pay any price to get rid of those. If you look at the map the Ryukyu Islands chain practical seal off the US Navy from entering Chinese shores if wars break out in the future. 

I think the Chinese hierarchies put a lot of though on this and that's why you see all these naval buildups.


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> $10 billion annually is a cheap price to pay to get rid of the Americans


Okinawa will certainly sign a troop deployment deal with the US. They cannot defend themselves. So the US won't be going anywhere, it is just that Tokyo gets out of the picture.



> You left your country for too long to know the 'fears of Japan' still run extremely high on every Korean's mind.


You don't understand the Korean mind set; Korea is probably the only country on earth that "belittles" China AND Japan. That may sound shocking, but Koreans never considered China as their competitor and believe they are surpassing Japan now, with the newspaper editorials warning Korean readers to not let their guards down as Japan's collapsed industry could come back.


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## Methu_Xie

fool Vietnam &#29492;&#23376;&#20204; are always looking forward to be a slave of power

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## Methu_Xie

Act more tougher,Japan will pay for it more.


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## Methu_Xie

Korean said:


> Well, this is not the first time Abe's being the prime minister and we know what he was like the last time, so yes you can bet on Abe being Abe the ultra rightwinger, but with Ishihara and Hashimoto Toru by his sides.
> 
> 
> No country on earth other than China recognizes that there is even a territorial dispute on Okinawa, the world simply will laugh off China's claim(Same as China threatening to claim Hawaii before Hillary Clinton).
> 
> Japan's policy on Diaoyudai is simple: they will accept the ICJ challenges on Diayudai, and is urging Korea and Russia too head to the ICJ.



Lamentable South Korean,How do you feel about the historical education that you have received in South Korea?Did your American Dad talk to you that your knowledge of Korean history is bullshit?


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## jhungary

Soryu said:


> Sorry guy, You misunderstand about situation, Vietnam claim the Islands under the sovereignty of the vietnam and occupies it, only that, Vietnam do not claim Philippines' EEZ is territorial water of Vietnam. Vietnam don't violate UNCLOS.
> 
> China claim over 80% SCS by nine *** line belong to her, but how to claim it!? And China take Islands from other by forces, do more provocative actions to other country, claim everyting belong to her. _I just want to ask: What is real of nine *** lines!?_
> 
> I know that. I say it with intentionally. EEZ is not territorial water, but China even claim over 80% SCS and say the other violates her territorial water and sovereignty.
> Chinese Military vessel doing many thing provocative in the nine *** lines draw by herself.
> 
> I stop here, because off topic.



Well, the point is you can claim 80% of the world is yours but that does not mean you will get the whole 80% of the world. Claiming stuff and get a Eff-Off on someone else's territorial water, and it's also different than being a dick on someone else's EEZ


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## Viet

Korean said:


> Okinawa will certainly sign a troop deployment deal with the US. They cannot defend themselves. So the US won't be going anywhere, it is just that Tokyo gets out of the picture.
> 
> 
> You don't understand the Korean mind set; *Korea is probably the only country on earth that "belittles" China AND Japan*. That may sound shocking, but Koreans never considered China as their competitor and believe they are surpassing Japan now, with the newspaper editorials warning Korean readers to not let their guards down as Japan's collapsed industry could come back.



really? so Koreans are so high? 
I hear that Chinese girls even go to Korea to look for men. 



Methu_Xie said:


> fool Vietnam &#29492;&#23376;&#20204; are always looking forward to be a slave of power



not correct, Vietnamese always resist to become second class citizens. History proves that.


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## ahfatzia

Viet said:


> really? so Koreans are so high?
> I hear that Chinese girls even go to Korea to look for men.




No you're just like him, hearing voices in your brain and believe they are true. It's the Vietnamese women that go to Korea to look for men. Even your newspaper are concerned when ROK changes its 'bride immigration' policy. RoK tightens rules for foreign brides -- Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus) Incidentally I don't see other countries carry this news item.


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## dunhill

Viet said:


> not correct, Vietnamese always resist to *become second class citizens*. History proves that.



Seriously?

I don't want to be on that 2nd class. Do you? Will you? duh !!!


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## djsjs

dunhill said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I don't want to be on that 2nd class. Do you? Will you? duh !!!



however ,willing is one thing ,reality is another.
Your avatar is nice.i like the girl.


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## Viet

dunhill said:


> Seriously?
> I don't want to be on that 2nd class. Do you? Will you? duh !!!



bro, I mean we don´t want (resist) to become second class...


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## ahfatzia

*Diaoyu Islands &#37347;&#39770;&#23798;/Senkaku Islands &#37347;&#39770;&#23798;* is a group consists of five uninhabited islets and three barren rocks located in East China Sea, approximately 120 nautical miles northeast of Taiwan, 200 nautical miles east of the Chinese mainland and 200 nautical miles southwest of the Japanese island of Okinawa. In ascending order of distances, the island cluster is located:

140 kilometres (76 nmi; 87 mi) east of Pengjia Islet, ROC 
170 kilometres (92 nmi; 110 mi) north of Ishigaki Island, Japan
186 kilometres (100 nmi; 116 mi) northeast of Keelung, ROC
410 kilometres (220 nmi; 250 mi) west of Okinawa Island, Japan

The depth of the surrounding waters of the continental shelf is approximately 100&#8211;150 metres (328&#8211;492 ft) except for the *Okinawa Trough* on the south. Interpretations on the Okinawa Trough:

China: _"...the Okinawa Trough proves that the continental shelves of China and Japan are not connected, that the Trough serves as the boundary between them, and that the Trough should not be ignored ...."_

Japan: _"...the trough is just an incidental depression in a continuous continental margin between the two countries ... [and] the trough should be ignored ...."
_

A location map of Diaoyu Islands/Senkaka Islands






A map of various islands





Okinawa Trough







Brief history of Diaoyu/Senkaku
*http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/A_Brief_History_of_Diaoyu_Island.pdf*



Overhead views of the islands with the big island &#37347;&#39770;&#23798; in the background





A view from the big island &#37347;&#39770;&#23798;





&#37347;&#39770;&#23798; 4.32km2





Satellite picture of the big island &#37347;&#39770;&#23798;





Just to have an idea the size of the big island &#37347;&#39770;&#23798;

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## yusheng

Japan protested China Marine Surveillance plane on Daoyu Islands

Japanese official Sir Fujimura Shu announced on Dec. 13th afternoon, China Marine Surveillance plane " invaded the Senkaku Islands " on 11:6 (Beijing time ten six), Japan has protested through the diplomatic channel. Chinese aircraft is fixed wing aircraft, the Japanese air force urgently dispatched 8 F-15 fighter jets.



http://sankei.jp.msn.com/politic ... 121315050012-p1.htm

´íµ¡´ÉÍý¤ËËüÁ´´ü¤¹¡áÌîÅÄ¼óÁê ¡Ê»þ»öÄÌ¿®¡Ë - Yahoo!¥Ë¥å¡¼¥¹


responding to the coastguard vessel wireless warning, the chinsee patrol planes pilots say: "we are cruising in our territorial air space ".
















video from Japan news


next possible step is landing, Sausage Slice backed up with power
8 F15 for what? obviously there is not only Chinese surveillance plane there.

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## Invincible INDIAN

*Japan sends fighter jets after Chinese plane flies over disputed isles in East China Sea*

TOKYO: Japan protested to China on Thursday after a Chinese government plane entered what Japan considers its airspace over disputed islets in the East China Sea, the Japanese foreign ministry said. 

The incident prompted Japan's military to scramble eight F-15 fighter jets, the defence ministry said. Japanese officials later said the Chinese aircraft had left the area. 

Sino-Japanese relations took a tumble in September after Japan bought the tiny islands, called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, from a private Japanese owner. 

"Despite our repeated warnings, Chinese government ships have entered out territorial waters for three days in an row," Japanese chief Cabinet secretary Osama Fujimura told reporters. 

"It is extremely regrettable that, on top of that, an intrusion into our airspace has been committed in this way," he said, adding that Japan had formally protested through diplomatic channels. 

A defence ministry spokesman said as far as he knew it was the first time this year that a Chinese plane had intruded into airspace near the islands. 

The incident comes just days before a Japanese election that is expected to return to power the conservative Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) with hawkish former prime minister Shinzo Abe at the helm. 

Abe has vowed to take a stern stance in the dispute over the islands, which are near potentially huge maritime gas reserves, and has said that the ruling Democratic Party's mishandling of its diplomacy had emboldened China. 

Abe has also promised to boost spending on defence including on the coastguard. 

Smaller Asian countries such as the Philippines have also become increasingly worried about Beijing's growing military assertiveness and its claims to disputed islands in the South China Sea.

Japan sends fighter jets after Chinese plane flies over disputed isles in East China Sea - The Times of India


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## SinoChallenger

USA remains silent. Too afraid to confront China.


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## cirr

Step by step&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;

It&#8216;s gonna be an arduous struggle and the Japs&#8217;d better be prepared for the long haul&#12290;

China is growing 1/5 of a Japan every year&#65292; economy-wise&#12290;

Time is on our side&#12290;

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## Zarvan

Tokyo (CNN) -- Japan scrambled fighter jets after a Chinese plane was seen Thursday near small islands in the East China Sea that are claimed by both countries.
This is the first time the dispute over the islands, which Japan calls Senkaku and China refers to as Diaoyu, has involved aircraft.
Chinese government ships have repeatedly entered the waters around the remote, rocky islands since the Japanese government announced in September it was buying several of the islands from private owners.
Japanese Coast Guard vessels have engaged in games of cat and mouse with the Chinese ships, with both sides broadcasting messages to one another insisting they have territorial sovereignty over the area.
Why is Japan feuding over islands? Anti-Japanese protests erupt in China
On Thursday morning, a Japanese Coast Guard patrol vessel spotted the Chinese government plane in airspace around the islands, Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura said.
Japanese Self Defense Force sent four F-15 jets and another aircraft to the area, Fujimura said, describing the Chinese plane's entry into the area as "extremely regrettable." Japan has lodged a protest with the Chinese government through diplomatic channels, he said.
The Japanese government's acquisition of the islands in September also set off several days of violent anti-Japanese protests across China and soured economic ties between the two Asian nations.
There was no immediate reaction from China about the incident.


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## Viet

Does China know, this provocation just increases votes of rightwing politicians in the coming election?


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Does China know, this provocation just increases votes of rightwing politicians in the coming election?



A scramble of Jets won't be enough to convince the voters. We might support a further armament of Japan, but the reality is the Right Wing is still not predicted to win any time soon.


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## ChinaToday

Viet said:


> Does China know, this provocation just increases votes of rightwing politicians in the coming election?



Double good news if this incident help japan rightwing politicians win the election


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## Amolthebest

The time has come when all the small nations threatened by China should stand with India shoulder by shoulder.

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## Sugarcane

(Reuters) - China's Foreign Ministry said on Thursday that Japan should halt entries into seas and airspace near disputed islets in the East China Sea, after Japan protested a flight over the islands by a Chinese plane.

The Chinese plane's flight, which prompted Japan's military to scramble eight F-15 fighter jets, was "completely normal" Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said during a regular news briefing.

Sino-Japanese relations have been strained since Japan bought the tiny islands, called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, from a private Japanese owner in September.

(Reporting by Terril Yue Jones,; Writing by Michael Martina)

China calls on Japan to halt entries into disputed waters | Reuters

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## Ayush

all the neighbouring countries of china-india,japan,vietnam should unite to confront the bully china


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## yusheng

Why did Japan sent 8 F15 to meet one small Chinese Y12 surveillance plane?

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## Viet

*Defiant Chinese plane intrudes over Senkakus*
_Kyodo Dec. 13, 2012 Japan Times_






Japanese F-15


A Chinese plane intruded into Japanese airspace Thursday over the Japan-controlled, but China-claimed, Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura said.

The Air Self-Defense Force scrambled F-15 jets to the area after the Chinese Oceanic Administration airplane was spotted near the islet of Uotsuri at 11:06 a.m., Fujimura told reporters.

The government immediately lodged a protest with China over the incident, Fujimura said.

*He said it is "extremely deplorable" that the plane entered Japanese airspace despite repeated warnings, especially after Chinese surveillance ships intruded into Japanese waters earlier Thursday.*

Vice Foreign Minister Chikao Kawai summoned a Chinese envoy to the Foreign Ministry to lodge a protest.

In Beijing, officials said the move was part of Chinese patrols in the area.

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## ahfatzia

I believe this was the first time China has had any kind of aero present over Diaoyu airspace. It's a good move to set a precedent  and should do it on a regular basis in the future. 

The pilot must had some set of balls though when 8 intended for intimidating fighter jets hovered around him.

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## ChinaToday

Amolthebest said:


> The time has come when all the small nations threatened by China should stand with India shoulder by shoulder.



stand with india = suicide
stand with usa = defeat
give in to china = win win


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## Viet

*Dangerous moves in the East China Sea could bring Japan, China to armed conflict*
MARK MacKINNON
OVER THE EAST CHINA SEA  The Globe and Mail

Last updated Tuesday, Dec. 04 2012, 4:13 AM EST












A member of the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force looks out the window of a PC3 reconnaissance plane on to the East China Sea. Were watching the Chinese closely, theyre watching us closely. Its a standoff, explained one crewman. (Sean Gallagher for The Globe and Mail)

The Japanese surveillance plane is an hour into its flight when it spots the first Chinese flags of the day, red banners atop a quartet of fishing boats deep in Japans territorial waters.

The P-3 Orion aircraft, designed for hunting submarines, banks for a closer look at the bobbing blue and white ships. From a seat in the plane, high above the East China Sea, the boats look like chess pieces, being advanced up an endless board of black water and white-capped waves.

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## Hellraiser007

ChinaToday said:


> stand with india = suicide
> stand with usa = defeat
> give in to china = win win



stand with india = will become a strong alliance both militarily and economically (recent visit of IA chief to Japan). This will help to confront China in future and *best bet*.
stand with usa = Will stop Chinese from interfering in Japanese territory and make them run but for a decade or so.
give in to china = Japanese do not want to become another Tibet


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## Roybot

8 F-15s?

I hope the chinese pilot was supplied adult diapers before the flight!


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## Viet

yusheng said:


> Why did Japan sent 8 F15 to meet one small Chinese Y12 surveillance plane?



Why? the Japanese thought China sent more than one!
China should know that Japan sees that as serious provocation.

Japan's defence ministry said it was the first intrusion into Japan's air space by a Chinese government aircraft since the military began keeping records in 1958.

The ministry further says 8 F-15 fighters and an early warning aircraft from the Air Self-Defense Force base in Naha, Okinawa scrambled to the scene. But when they arrived there, the Chinese plane had already left Japanese airspace.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Reminds me of Atlantique incident.

Atlantique_incident


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## Viet

ahfatzia said:


> I believe this was the first time China has had any kind of aero present over Diaoyu airspace. It's a good move to set a precedent  and should do it on a regular basis in the future.
> 
> The pilot must had some set of balls though when 8 intended for intimidating fighter jets hovered around him.



Japan sent 8 F-15 fighters and 1 early warning aircraft to the scene!


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## T-Rex

Amolthebest said:


> The time has come when all the small nations threatened by China should stand with India shoulder by shoulder.


*
The time has also come for those small nations facing the indian hegemony to stand shoulder to shoulder with China.*


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## ahfatzia

*China calls on Japan to halt entries into disputed waters*








(Reuters) - China's Foreign Ministry said on Thursday that Japan should halt entries into seas and airspace near disputed islets in the East China Sea, after Japan protested a flight over the islands by a Chinese plane.

The Chinese plane's flight, which prompted Japan's military to scramble eight F-15 fighter jets, was "completely normal" Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said during a regular news briefing.

Sino-Japanese relations have been strained since Japan bought the tiny islands, called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, from a private Japanese owner in September.

China calls on Japan to halt entries into disputed waters | Reuters

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*The Senkaku Islands Constitute*
an Intrinsic Part of Japan
By Hiromichi Moteki,
Director of the Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact

Excerpt:

The Xi tai hou Rescript (granting islands to Sheng Xuanhuai)

5) The Xi tai hou rescript is definitely a fake. The rescript stems from a story 
about Sheng Xuanhuai (Chinese: &#30427;&#23459;&#25079;; a businessman and politician during the 
Qing Dynasty) who is said to have ventured to three islands--Uotsuri, Kobisho 
and Sekibisho--to harvest Chinese wormwood, manufacturing the herb into tablets 
and presenting the tablets to Cixi tai hou (Chinese: &#24904;&#31143;&#22826;&#21518;, aka: Xi tai hou). In 
appreciation of the herb&#8223;s efficacy, the empress ordered the issuance of a rescript 
to bestow the three islands on Sheng Xuanhuai in 1893. 
The reasons why the rescript is a fake are as follows.
Sekibisho Island is a barren rock where virtually nothing grows. As for Kuba 
and Uotsuri islands, Koga was there undertaking his development projects around 
that time. And, not only are there no records of activities of a wormwood harvest 
by Chinese, there are no records of any herbs being produced in the islands. 
If the Qing Dynasty considered these islands to be its territories, why did it not 
object to the continuous activities by the Japanese starting in the early Meiji era 
and continuing for 28 years to 1895, which included explorations and surveys, 
along with depicting the islands as Japanese territory on maps? There was also 
the matter of Japanese occupation dating from 1895. How is it possible the 
dynasty never objected?
There are irregularities in the format of the rescript. It is dated with month of 
October only, lacking a day of the month. And, the privy seal embossed on the 
rescript is the wrong one. 
Furthermore, it has been confirmed that Sheng Xuanhuai was not the minister 
of ceremonies (Chinese: &#22826;&#24120;&#23546;&#27491 in 1893 contrary to that specified in the 
rescript. This means mistakes were made in making the fake. This alone leads to 
a conclusion that the rescript was fabricated. 
The bestowment of the islands was not recorded in any documents, including 
the Qing Shilu (Chinese: &#28165;&#23455;&#37682, Donghualu (Chinese: &#26481;&#33775;&#37682, and Donghua 
xulu (Chinese: &#26481;&#33775;&#32113;&#37682. And yet, it would be unheard of for the bestowing of 
lands to go unrecorded. 

http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/79_S4.pdf

China faking evidence.


----------



## Viet

ahfatzia said:


> *China calls on Japan to halt entries into disputed waters*



the best joke of the day


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## djsjs

Viet said:


> the best joke of the day



you cheerleaders can never accept the voice of peace from China


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> the best joke of the day



you cheerleaders can never accept the voice of peace from China


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## ahfatzia

Viet said:


> the best joke of the day




It aren't no joke man. It's geo-diplomacy and I think China's finally get dividends for her spending a vast sum on educating the younger generations in the past few decades. As you can see every move by China is calculated to the T and all she needs now is a few good 'big mouths' that can give big talks in the international arenas.

Oops I found this and I wonder it'll help anybody....






A Qing map


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## Viet

djsjs said:


> you cheerleaders can never accept the voice of peace from China



I am not cheerleading the Japanese, but laugh.

As per article China's Foreign Ministry demands Japan to cede the islands to China, voluntary. I think China must send more aircrafts and warships in order to impress the Japanese. This one event of civil aircraft does not count.


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## yusheng

ahfatzia said:


> I believe this was the first time China has had any kind of aero present over Diaoyu airspace. It's a good move to set a precedent  and should do it on a regular basis in the future.
> 
> The pilot must had some set of balls though when 8 intended for intimidating fighter jets hovered around him.




generally the pilots was protected by Chinese fight jets just as the chinese surveillance ships near the Diaoyu Islands protected by Chinese fleet in the first time or sometimes that why Japanese sent 8 f15 and 1 e2.

if you are familiary with military game between China and Japan or China and US, you will never say the pilot triped into the Lion's den.

of course , every pilot are brave, do you remember the Hainan Island incident

this is one of the games which is not over and will more thrill.

pay my respects to brave pilots






in the picture photoed by US plane showing pilot Wangwei using hand ask US plane to leave

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## Viet

ahfatzia said:


> It aren't no joke man. It's geo-diplomacy and I think China's finally get dividends for her spending a vast sum on educating the younger generations in the past few decades. *As you can see every move by China is calculated to the T a*nd all she needs now is a few good 'big mouths' that can give big talks in the international arenas.



It is a dangerous game that China plays currently. Are you sure, Chinese leaders calculate every move carefully?

What happens if Japan fighter jets unintentionally crush down the civil spy plan? That could trigger an event, that noboby is able to stop afterwards.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

yusheng said:


> generally the pilots was protected by Chinese fight jets just as the chinese surveillance ships near the Diaoyu Islands protected by Chinese fleet in the first time or sometimes that why Japanese sent 8 f15 and 1 e2.
> 
> if you are familiary with military game between China and Japan or China and US, you will never say the pilot triped into the Lion's den.
> 
> of course , every pilot are brave, do you remember the Hainan Island incident
> 
> this is one of the games which is not over and will more thrill.
> 
> pay my respects to brave pilots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in the picture photoed by US plane showing pilot Wangwei using hand ask US plane to leave



I think the pilot is stupid. The Chinese pilot paid the price of his stupidity with his life. 

Excerpt:

The American government claimed that the Chinese jet bumped the wing of the larger, slower, and less maneuverable EP-3. After returning to U.S. soil, the pilot of the EP-3, Lt. Shane Osborn, was allowed to make a brief statement in which he said that the EP-3 was on autopilot and in straight-and-level flight at the time of the collision. He stated that he was just "guarding the autopilot" in his interview with Frontline.[17] The U.S. released video footage from previous missions which revealed that American reconnaissance crews had previously been intercepted by Lt. Cdr. Wang. During one such incident, he was shown approaching so close that his e-mail address could be read from a sign that he was holding up.

Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## WuMaoCleverbot

Viet said:


> It is a dangerous game that China plays currently. Are you sure, Chinese leaders calculate every move carefully?
> 
> What happens if Japan fighter jets unintentionally crush down the civil spy plan? That could trigger an event, that noboby is able to stop afterwards.



I don't think that would be unintentional...unless they collide. I think Japan is just wasting its resources in scrambling fighter jets to intercept a lone unarmed Chinese plane...plain overkill. Besides, what can the Chinese ships and planes can do...the Japanese already showed the international community that, when they arrested and deported the Chinese intruders, the islands are being effectively administered by Japan.

Japan should just let the Chinese waste their resources.


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## Gyp 111

Japan scrambles fighter jets after Chinese plane seen near disputed islands - CNN.com

Tokyo (CNN) -- Japan scrambled fighter jets after a Chinese plane was seen Thursday near small islands in the East China Sea that are claimed by both countries.

This is the first time that the dispute over the islands -- which Japan calls Senkaku and China refers to as Diaoyu -- has involved aircraft, introducing a new sphere of risky encounters for the two Asian neighbors.

Chinese government ships have repeatedly entered the waters around the remote, rocky islands since the Japanese government announced in September it was buying several of the islands from private owners.

Why Asia is arguing over its islands

Japanese Coast Guard vessels have engaged in games of cat and mouse with the Chinese ships, with both sides broadcasting messages to one another insisting they have territorial sovereignty over the area.

Analysts say that by sending its own patrols into the area, China is challenging Japan's de facto control of the islands, which has been the status quo for the past 40 years.

On Thursday morning, a Japanese Coast Guard patrol vessel spotted the Chinese government plane in airspace around the islands, Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura said.

As a result, the Japanese Self Defense Force sent eight F-15 jets and an early warning E2C plane to the area, the government said, revising up the number of planes it initially said it had deployed.

By the time the Japanese jets arrived, there was no sign of the Chinese plane, which had not shown up on military radar, the Japanese Self Defense Force said.

South China Sea risks becoming 'Asia's Palestine'

China's State Oceanic Administration said a B-3837 patrol plane had arrived in the islands' airspace Thursday morning in order to carry out a joint air-sea patrol with ships in the area. The patrol teams announced China's territorial claim and told the Japanese ships to leave the area, it said.

Fujimura said that the Chinese plane's entry into the area was "extremely regrettable" and that Japan has lodged a protest with the Chinese government through diplomatic channels.

The Japanese government's acquisition of the islands in September also set off several days of violent anti-Japanese protests across China and soured economic ties between the two Asian nations.

The United States has said it doesn't take sides in territorial disputes and urged the two sides to resolve the situation peacefully. Nonetheless, U.S. officials have admitted that the islands fall under the scope of a mutual defense treaty between Washington and Tokyo.


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## Soryu

yusheng said:


> Why did Japan sent 8 F15 to meet one small Chinese Y12 surveillance plane?





ahfatzia said:


> I believe this was the first time China has had any kind of aero present over Diaoyu airspace. It's a good move to set a precedent  and should do it on a regular basis in the future.
> 
> The pilot must had some set of balls though when 8 intended for intimidating fighter jets hovered around him.





Roybot said:


> 8 F-15s?
> 
> I hope the chinese pilot was supplied adult diapers before the flight!


JASDF have been sent F-2 to interception and escort China Y-8 MPA leave japanese's airspace
Maybe they play that game many time before and now it turn over those islands 


Viet said:


> the best joke of the day


Just normal trick from china, again. 


WuMaoCleverbot said:


> I don't think that would be unintentional...unless they collide. I think Japan is just wasting its resources in scrambling fighter jets to intercept a lone unarmed Chinese plane...plain overkill. Besides, what can the Chinese ships and planes can do...the Japanese already showed the international community that, when they arrested and deported the Chinese intruders, the islands are being effectively administered by Japan.
> 
> Japan should just let the Chinese waste their resources.



Japan reaction are meaning that action from China is serious threat for both side. Japan want to warning about that.


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## Korean

yusheng said:


> this is one of the games which is not over and will more thrill.
> 
> pay my respects to brave pilots



This wasn't the case of a brave pilot, but a poorly trained pilot who couldn't fly straight.

That pilot, or Chinese fighter pilots in general, are so poorly trained that they can't even fly straight, and that fighter jet collided with the US spyplane while flying along as per the normal interception protocall. It's not just the Americans who complain about the poor quality of Chinese pilots, but the Japanese ASDF pilots who routinely intercept Chinese planes complaining about the same thing; the Chinese pilots can't fly straight!

Pakistan could repay some of its debt to China by offering to train Chinese combat pilots.

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## ahfatzia

Viet said:


> It is a dangerous game that China plays currently. Are you sure, Chinese leaders calculate every move carefully?
> 
> What happens if Japan fighter jets unintentionally crush down the civil spy plan? That could trigger an event, that noboby is able to stop afterwards.




As I said, everything is calculated to a T by China including, perhaps, the missile launch by North Korea to influence the elections of Japan and Korea. China wants to make sure the hawks will win and if they do win Japan will call for constitution changes and the alliance of the US, Japan and Korea will be in danger of breaking up. A re-militarized Japan will further put a dagger on the relationship of the trio because Korea has an innate fear of a strong Japan. Which ever side the US chooses, probably Japan, their marriage is not going to be the same anymore.


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> As I said, everything is calculated to a T by China including, perhaps, the missile launch by North Korea to influence the elections of Japan and Korea. China wants to make sure the hawks will win and if they do win Japan will call for constitution changes and the alliance of the US, Japan and Korea will be in danger of breaking up.



It will actually strengthen. The Liancourt Rocks was never a priority issue for Japan's LDP and rightwinger politicians. Abe didn't raise the Liancourt Rocks issue during his last term as PM, and Hashimoto Toru's talking about "co-managing" the sea around Liancourt Rocks as Japan's eventual goal, not reclaiming it from Korea. The fact that US's pressuring Japan not to raise the Liancourt Rocks issue, and Japanese rightwinger's desire to deepen the alliance with the US would ensure that the Liancourt Rocks issue will submerge during the LDP's power.



> A re-militarized Japan will further put a dagger on the relationship of the trio because Korea has an innate fear of a strong Japan.


Korea has no innate fear of a strong Japan.


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## terranMarine

Japanese invasions of Korea (1592
The war left significant legacies in all three countries. In the context of Japanese imperialism, the invasions are seen as the first Japanese attempt to become a global power.[20] This partial occupation of Korea developed the Japanese concept that Korea had always been part of Japan,[216] and the Japanese leaders of the late 19th and the early 20th centuries further used the Korean invasions to justify their 19th century occupation of Korea.[217]

In China the war was used to inspire nationalistic resistance against Japanese imperialism during the 20th century.[20] In Chinese academia, historians list the war as one of the Wanli Emperor's "Three Great Punitive Campaigns".[20] Contemporary Chinese historians often use the campaigns as an example of the friendship the two nations shared.

In Korea, the war is a historic foundation of Korean nationalism, and like in China, was used to inspire nationalistic resistance against Japanese imperialism during the 20th century. Korea gained several national heroes during the conflict, such as Admiral Yi.,[20] who continue to be studied. Even today, anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea can be partly traced back to the Japanese invasions in 1592, which continue to be used as a historical reference for Korean opposition to Japan.

Korea under Japanese rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> It will actually strengthen. The Liancourt Rocks was never a priority issue for Japan's LDP and rightwinger politicians. Abe didn't raise the Liancourt Rocks issue during his last term as PM, and Hashimoto Toru's talking about "co-managing" the sea around Liancourt Rocks as Japan's eventual goal, not reclaiming it from Korea. The fact that US's pressuring Japan not to raise the Liancourt Rocks issue, and Japanese rightwinger's desire to deepen the alliance with the US would ensure that the Liancourt Rocks issue will submerge during the LDP's power.
> 
> 
> Korea has no innate fear of a strong Japan.




So according to you my friend, writing from a basement apartment in Jackson Height, Korea welcomes a re-militarized Japan and even if there's a breakout in their relationship Uncle Sam would be on Korean side.


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> if there's a breakout in their relationship Uncle Sam would be on Korean side.


Yes, even if the US doesn't want to get involved.

Just like how the US has a legal obligation to defend the Diaoyudai from China, the US has the same legal obligation to defend the Liancourt Rocks from japan. This is why the US is pressuring Japan to not raise conflict over this issue.


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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> Yes, even if the US doesn't want to get involved.
> 
> Just like how the US has a legal obligation to defend the Diaoyudai from China, the US has the same legal obligation to defend the Liancourt Rocks from japan. This is why the US is pressuring Japan to not raise conflict over this issue.




Interesting. Do you have any link to your claim that the US will defend Korea claim on Dokdo (I like the sound better) because all I can find is:

*Washington has no position on sovereignty of 'Liancourt Rocks'
*
U.S. must sit on fence amid Japan-South Korea isle row | The Japan Times Online


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## Rechoice

*Japan protests over Chinese airspace 'intrusion'*


Japanese military scrambles eight F-15 fighter jets after Chinese government plane enters airspace over Senkaku Islands.Japan's chief cabinet secretary says their military scrambled eight F-15 fighter jets after a Chinese government plane entered what Japan considers its airspac Link to this video
Japan has protested to China after a Chinese government plane entered what Japan considers its airspace over disputed islands in the East China Sea, the Japanese foreign ministry said.

The incident prompted Japan's military to scramble eight F-15 fighter jets, the defence ministry said. Japanese officials later said the Chinese aircraft had left the area.

Sino-Japanese relations took a tumble in September after Japan bought the tiny islands, called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, from a private Japanese owner.

"Despite our repeated warnings, Chinese government ships have entered our territorial waters for three days in an row," Japan's chief cabinet secretary, Osama Fujimura, told reporters.

"It is extremely regrettable that, on top of that, an intrusion into our airspace has been committed in this way," he said, adding that Japan had formally protested through diplomatic channels.

A defence ministry spokesman said as far as he knew it was the first time this year that a Chinese plane had intruded into airspace near the islands.

Japan protests about Chinese airspace 'intrusion' over disputed islands | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> Interesting. Do you have any link to your claim that the US will defend Korea claim on Dokdo


It's exactly the same legal obligation that forces the US to defend Diaoyudai; the US has a legal obligation to defend all territories administered by the ROK, including the Liancourt Rocks administered by the ROK.


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## ahfatzia

Rechoice you must have wake up late, you article has been posted about 12 hour ago.


@ Korean.

That might well be true but let's not forget Uncle also has similar arrangement with your antagonist and if shytes hit the fan guess who'll be his choice.

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## Rechoice

ahfatzia said:


> Rechoice you must have wake up late, you article has been posted about 12 hour ago.



Sorry, for my late.


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## Hasbara Buster

*Japan scrambles F-15 jets over disputed islands*

*Japan has scrambled fighter jets following an incident where at least one Chinese maritime aircraft entered the airspace over a group of islands in the East China Sea disputed by both Tokyo and Beijing.*

Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura told reporters on Thursday that F-15 planes were mobilized after Chinese aircraft entered the airspace just after 11 a.m. local time (0200 GMT) over the disputed islands, known as Diaoyu in China and Senkaku in Japan.

Over the past two months, Chinese ships have moved in and out of waters around the islands.

*However, the Japanese Defense Ministry said the airspace intrusion was the first ever by China.* 

Meanwhile, Beijing said the flight of the Chinese aircraft over the disputed islands was &#8220;completely normal.&#8221;

Japan&#8217;s coast guard said it had detected four maritime surveillance vessels in waters around the islands earlier in the day and ordered them to leave the area.

Japan and China have long been in a dispute over the sovereignty of the islands, which would give the owner exclusive oil, mineral and fishing rights in the surrounding waters.

Tensions heightened between the two countries after Japan signed a deal on September 11 to buy three of the islands from their private Japanese owner in line with plans to nationalize the archipelago. Hundreds of Chinese held anti-Japan demonstrations following the move.

In October, Chinese Deputy Foreign Minister Zhang Zhijun said, &#8220;We are watching very closely what action Japan might take regarding the Diaoyu islands and their adjacent waters. The action that Japan might take will shape China&#8217;s countermeasures.&#8221;

&#8220;If Japan continues down its current wrong path and takes more erroneous actions and creates incidents regarding the Diaoyu Islands and challenges China, China will definitely take strong measures to respond to that.&#8221;

PressTV - Japan scrambles F-15 jets over disputed islands


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## yusheng

Navy fleet returns after West Pacific training

12-11-2012 14:19 BJT 

VIDEO


A Chinese naval fleet returned to a military port in Zhoushan of east China&#8217;s Zhejiang Province Tuesday.

The return marks the end of a 15-day far-sea training exercise in the West Pacific Ocean. The fleet carried out open sea combat and supply drills, as well as search and rescue programs during the training. 

Comprised of two guided missile destroyers, two missile frigates, a supply ship and shipboard helicopters, the fleet set sail on November 27th from Zhoushan and passed through the Miyako Strait to enter West Pacific Ocean. 

On their way back to the East China Sea Monday, the fleet patrolled waters near the Diaoyu Islands.





























THE GAME CONTINUES

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## ahfatzia

*Taiwan reiterates Diaoyutai Islands claim*


TAIPEI, Taiwan -- Taiwan yesterday urged all claimants to the Diaoyutai Islands to refrain from activities that could escalate tension and called for peace and stability in the region after a Chinese plane was spotted in airspace over the disputed seas yesterday morning.

Reiterating the nation's claim over the island chain, Foreign Ministry deputy spokesman Calvin Ho yesterday said the Diaoyutais are an inherent part of the territory of the Republic of China, and that the government will not back down on its sovereignty claim.

He again called for all claimants to shelve their differences, pursue peace and reciprocity and jointly explore resources in the area.

Meanwhile, Taiwan's military yesterday said it closely monitored the Chinese plane that entered Diaoyutai airspace.

Related military units were on standby for any possible contingencies throughout the incident, the military said in a statement.

The Diaoyutai islands, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China have been a long-standing source of tension.

Japan yesterday also accused China of violating its airspace, sending several F-15 fighter jets to the region in response. Tokyo also filed a complaint with Beijing, criticizing the move as an act of provocation.

Taiwan reiterates Diaoyutai Islands claim - The China Post

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## ahfatzia

China's official position on CMS plane:

*Air patrol over Diaoyu Islands 'completely normal' *






_A Chinese marine surveillance plane was sent to join vessels patrolling the territorial waters around the Diaoyu Islands on Thursday morning, according to China's maritime authorities. _





_TheYuzheng 206, China's largest fishery patrol ship, at port in Shanghai on Tuesday. The vessel embarked on its maiden voyage from Shanghai on Tuesday to patrol waters near the Diaoyu Islands, showing China's determination to safeguard its sovereignty over the islands. _


China's marine surveillance plane flying over the Diaoyu Islands was "completely normal," a foreign ministry spokesman told at a regular press conference Thursday.

"The Diaoyu Island and its affiliated islets are an inalienable part of China's territory, and it's completely normal for a Chinese marine surveillance plane to fly over them," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei told a regular press conference.

He also urged Japan to stop its illegal operations in the waters and space concerning the islands.

Hong said that the current severe difficulties in China-Japan relations are the result of Japan's illegal purchase of the Diaoyu Islands, calling on the Japanese government to correct its mistakes by showing sincerity and taking action through dialogue and negotiations.

Air patrol over Diaoyu Islands 'completely normal' - China.org.cn

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## terranMarine

If only Taiwan would be more active in sending patrols to the area like their brothers are doing. We should be taking turns flying in and out just to keep their F-15 squadron busy.


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## cirr

Actually there were 2 planes&#65288;CMS B-3837 and CMS B-3806&#65289;hovering over waters around the Diaoyu Islands for some 28 mins&#65292;with the lowest crusing altitude being just 60m above the sea level&#65306;

htt p://mil.huanqiu.com/china/2012-12/3381164.html

Japanese radars failed to detect the presences of the two planes for much of the duration&#65292;hence the reported difference in time&#12290;


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## Evgeny

cirr said:


> Actually there were 2 planes&#65288;CMS B-3837 and CMS B-3806&#65289;hovering over waters around the Diaoyu Islands for some 28 mins&#65292;with the lowest crusing altitude being just 60m above the sea level&#65306;
> 
> htt p://mil.huanqiu.com/china/2012-12/3381164.html
> 
> Japanese radars failed to detect the presences of the two planes for much of the duration&#65292;hence the reported difference in time&#12290;



Dear cirr,

Could you plz., tell me what is the price for A95 or similar bensin at Cnina's gas stations in average? I have an argue about it

Thanks, Evgeny


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## cirr

Evgeny said:


> Dear cirr,
> 
> Could you plz., tell me what is the price for A95 or similar bensin at Cnina's gas stations in average? I have an argue about it
> 
> Thanks, Evgeny



Excuse my lousy Chinese here&#65292;but I have no idea what A95 or &#8220;benxin&#8221; means&#12290;

Are they names for certain grades of petrol&#65311;Benzin&#65311;

Anyhow here are what gas stations charge in Shanghai&#65288;amongst the highest in the nation&#65289;&#65306;

No&#12290;90 7.26 yuan 
No&#12290;93 7.75 yuan
No&#12290;97 8.24 yuan
No.0 diesel 7.66 yuan

Figures are in litre and are the highest allowable by the National Development and Reform Commission&#12290;Each station has its own prices&#65292;normally 20-30 cents off the State stipulated price&#12290;You will find &#65288;mostly&#65289;lower prices in other provinces in the link below&#65306;

www.bitauto.com/youjia/

Hope it helps&#12290;


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## cirr

I got it&#65306; you mean A95 petrol&#65292;a grade name used in Beijing only&#65292;and known as No. 97 petrol in the rest of the country&#12290;

I have been in Shanghai for too long and have apparently forgotten the uniqueness of our great capital&#12290;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;


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## Evgeny

cirr said:


> I got it&#65306; you mean A95 petrol&#65292;a grade name used in Beijing only&#65292;and known as No. 97 petrol in the rest of the country&#12290;
> 
> I have been in Shanghai for too long and have apparently forgotten the uniqueness of our great capital&#12290;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;



Thank you very much!
Yes benzin is our name for gasoline 95 is octan number

Thank you once more!


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## faithfulguy

Korean said:


> It's exactly the same legal obligation that forces the US to defend Diaoyudai; the US has a legal obligation to defend all territories administered by the ROK, including the Liancourt Rocks administered by the ROK.



Only if n Korea attacks Liancourt. And it's the US that determine its obligations, not Korea.

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## Viet

yusheng said:


> Navy fleet returns after West Pacific training
> THE GAME CONTINUES



So what next?
Looks to me that China is keen to step up the provocations.


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## cirr

Viet said:


> So what next?
> Looks to me that China is keen to step up the provocations.



Not a&#12288;big deal&#12290;

These are international waters&#65292; the PLAN will continue to train and exercise in those international waters the way the USN have for years&#12290;

&#65331;&#65359;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65349;&#12288;&#65322;&#65345;&#65360;&#65345;&#65358;&#65349;&#65363;&#65349;&#12288;&#65357;&#65353;&#65351;&#65352;&#65364;&#12288;&#65345;&#65363;&#12288;&#65367;&#65349;&#65356;&#65356;&#12288;&#65351;&#65349;&#65364;&#12288;&#65365;&#65363;&#65349;&#65348;&#12288;&#65364;&#65359;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65349;&#12288;&#65362;&#65349;&#65345;&#65356;&#65353;&#65364;&#65369;&#12290;

Judging by their showings in the face of CMS and CFA ships conducting constant patrols around the Islands&#65292;the Japs sure will sooner or later&#12290;

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## Viet

cirr said:


> *Not a&#12288;big deal&#12290;*
> 
> These are international waters&#65292; the PLAN will continue to train and exercise in those international waters the way the USN have for years&#12290;
> &#65331;&#65359;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65349;&#12288;&#65322;&#65345;&#65360;&#65345;&#65358;&#65349;&#65363;&#65349;&#12288;&#65357;&#65353;&#65351;&#65352;&#65364;&#12288;&#65345;&#65363;&#12288;&#65367;&#65349;&#65356;&#65356;&#12288;&#65351;&#65349;&#65364;&#12288;&#65365;&#65363;&#65349;&#65348;&#12288;&#65364;&#65359;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65349;&#12288;&#65362;&#65349;&#65345;&#65356;&#65353;&#65364;&#65369;&#12290;
> 
> Judging by their showings in the face of CMS and CFA ships conducting constant patrols around the Islands&#65292;the Japs sure will sooner or later&#12290;



Not a&#12288;big deal?
You sent patrol plan over Japanese air space.


----------



## cirr

Viet said:


> Not a&#12288;big deal?
> You sent patrol plan over Japanese air space.



Japanese air space? Said by who? The Japs? Or you Viets? Even the US, who is Japan's only ally, does not recognize Japan's sovenreigty over the Islands. The US merely transfered the *administration right* to Japan in 1970s when both Mainland China and Taiwan protested strongly.

In case you don't konw, Okinawa(Liu Qiu in Chinese) is also NOT a part of Japan proper. The US again handed over only administration rights of the groups of islands to Japan in 1970s, which fact is why Japan must seek permission from the US if it wants to deploy warships near Okinawa waters.

Okinawa will be an independent country in due time. That's one of the reasons why the Japs are so scared of &#8220;losing&#8221; Diaoyu Islands&#12290;In the minds of the Japs&#65292;losing diaoyu Islands sets a &#8220;bad&#8221; precedent for things to come&#12290;

China should send one of these&#65306;












to Diaoyu Islands next time round&#12290;

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## Korean

faithfulguy said:


> Only if n Korea attacks Liancourt. And it's the US that determine its obligations, not Korea.


And the US pressures Japan every time Japan tries to do something about it.


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## ahfatzia

(Reuters) -* China's Foreign Ministry said on Thursday that Japan should halt entries into seas and airspace near disputed islets in the East China Sea, after Japan protested a flight over the islands by a Chinese plane.*

The Chinese plane's flight, which prompted Japan's military to scramble eight F-15 fighter jets, was "completely normal" Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said during a regular news briefing.

Sino-Japanese relations have been strained since Japan bought the tiny islands, called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, from a private Japanese owner in September.

China calls on Japan to halt entries into disputed waters | Reuters

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## faithfulguy

Korean said:


> And the US pressures Japan every time Japan tries to do something about it.



US should withdraw from the region and let Asian countries and its people deal withits own issues. Even if S Korea is willing to pay much more than the cost of deploying troops there, US should still withdraw from the region as US arm forces are not mercenaries.


The US should not deal with problems that Asians ought deal by themselves.


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## jhungary

faithfulguy said:


> US should withdraw from the region and let Asian countries and its people deal withits own issues. Even if S Korea is willing to pay much more than the cost of deploying troops there, US should still withdraw from the region as US arm forces are not mercenaries.
> 
> The US should not deal with problems that Asians ought deal by themselves.



US just maintain a present there, does not mean we will interference with Asian problem, we have said many many time, Asian dispute is Asian problem, we took a neutral clause in this dispute, as long as the dispute are resolve peacefully, we have nothing for or against it.

I don't think it is up to the US to drop all the ties with Asia. Asian country need our present there, not the otherway around. If we left now, there will be a vacumn of defence capability on several country, Japan, Taiwan, Philippine and even Australia will be wide open to be attacked.


----------



## Korean

faithfulguy said:


> US should withdraw from the region and let Asian countries and its people deal withits own issues. Even if S Korea is willing to pay much more than the cost of deploying troops there, US should still withdraw from the region as US arm forces are not mercenaries.
> 
> The US should not deal with problems that Asians ought deal by themselves.


Why would Korean government want the US troops gone? US troops in Korea are under the command of the Korean Joint Chief of Staff in war time. Korea is a rare case where the entire US force deployment is under a foreign general's command.


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## ahfatzia

*Lawmakers: Japan's Abe would try to keep China ties calm*


(Reuters) - *Despite tough talk on the campaign trail, former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe will try to avoid a serious clash with China if his Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) wins Sunday's general election, as expected, senior party officials said.
*
Ties between Asia's two biggest economies took a dive after Japan nationalized islets at the heart of a long dispute in September, prompting violent protests in China and a standoff in waters around the isles that has raised fears of a clash.

In a bid to underscore Japan's control over the East China Sea islands, called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, the LDP has promised to consider manning them and building structures on them, a move bound to outrage China.

*LDP lawmakers knowledgeable on foreign policy, however, suggest that an Abe administration, while remaining assertive in the territorial row, would be keen to improve ties and strike a pragmatic tone with its Asian neighbor.*

*"We don't want to do anything to further worsen the current state of affairs," Yoshitaka Shindo, an LDP lawmaker* outspoken on territorial disputes, told Reuters in an interview.

*"We need to calm down the situation and smooth over our relations as Japan doesn't want to run into any military collision with any neighboring country,"* Shindo said.

The LDP's tough campaign tone seems to have been intended to appeal to a growing sense of nationalism among some voters and keep them from turning to the right-leaning Japan Restoration Party, newly founded by popular Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto.

*Abe proved he can be pragmatic in his first term in office when he surprised many by moving quickly to mend ties with Beijing.*

*He chose China as the destination of his first overseas trip and refrained from going to the Yasukuni Shrine for war dead,* seen by many as a symbol of Japan's past militarism.

*"We have to set up a hotline between Tokyo and Beijing, so any potential accidents don't escalate into something bigger," said Yoshimasa Hayashi, a former defense minister* and a junior cabinet minister during Abe's previous term in power in 2006.

*"RELIANT ON RIGHT"*

Ships from both countries have been shadowing each other near the disputed islands and on Thursday, a Chinese government plane entered what Japan considers its airspace over the area.

Japan scrambled fighter jets and protested to China in response.

Hayashi told Reuters that Japan-China talks now being conducted by diplomats should be elevated to the political level.

*"This can take some time, but that is not a problem. We have to create such a framework and continue our talks,"* he said.

Still, analysts and Abe's advisers say that while Abe may be cautious ahead of an election for parliament's upper house next summer, his stance toward China will inevitably harden compared with his previous term given a tilt to the right in Japan's political sphere.

*"This time around, Abe is more reliant on his right-wing backers who formed a part of the broader coalition that helped him get elected as the LDP chief," said Sophia University professor Koichi Nakano.
*
*"It seems that his voters have also moved to the right and expect a hardened stance."*

Japan's Abe would try to keep China ties calm-lawmakers | Reuters


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## ahfatzia

*China submits East China Sea claims to UN*


BEIJING -- China provided the United Nations with detailed claims to waters in the East China Sea on Friday, apparently padding out its legal argument in an ongoing territorial dispute with Japan.

*The Foreign Ministry said it submitted documents claiming waters extending beyond its 200-nautical-mile (370-kilometer) exclusive economic zone. It said geological features dictated that China's claim extended to the edge of the continental shelf off the Chinese coast, about 200 kilometers (124 miles) from Japan's Okinawa island.*

A statement posted to the Foreign Ministry's website gave no specifics, but China had pledged to make such a submission shortly after its dispute with Japan over uninhabited islands in the East China Sea flared again in September. Japan angered China by buying the islands from their private Japanese owners to block a rival bid by Tokyo's nationalist mayor, a move Japan had hoped would prevent a bigger crisis.

Violent anti-Japanese protests then broke out across China to assert what many Chinese believe is their country's ages-old claim on the rocky outcrops, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China. Taiwan also claims them.

China's move is a way for it to underscore its claim, but will have little real impact. The U.N. commission to which it submitted its claim, which comprises geological experts, evaluates the markers on technical grounds but has no authority to resolve overlapping claims.

*The U.N. submission represents one aspect of China's approach to the dispute. Another involves dispatching vessels to patrol in the area *and confront Japanese Coast Guard ships.

On Thursday, China for the first time dispatched a plane over the islands, prompting Tokyo to accuse it of violating Japanese air space. Japan's Defense Agency said four Japanese F-15 jets headed to the area in response, but the nonmilitary Chinese plane was nowhere to be seen by the time they got there. The Foreign Ministry said a formal protest was sent to the Chinese government through its embassy in Japan. 

*The islands lie in a strategic location between Japan and Taiwan, and the surrounding waters hold rich fish stocks and a potential wealth of oil, gas and other minerals.*

The area China claims overlaps with Japan's exclusive economic zone and includes undersea natural gas deposits that China at one time had pledged to tap jointly with Japan. Such joint measures have since been shelved by Beijing. 

China submits East China Sea claims to UN - The China Post

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## faithfulguy

Korean said:


> Why would Korean government want the US troops gone? US troops in Korea are under the command of the Korean Joint Chief of Staff in war time. Korea is a rare case where the entire US force deployment is under a foreign general's command.



And that would not be allowed once conflict begins. The entire Korean force will be under the Pacific command once hostility commences.



jhungary said:


> US just maintain a present there, does not mean we will interference with Asian problem, we have said many many time, Asian dispute is Asian problem, we took a neutral clause in this dispute, as long as the dispute are resolve peacefully, we have nothing for or against it.
> 
> I don't think it is up to the US to drop all the ties with Asia. Asian country need our present there, not the otherway around. If we left now, there will be a vacumn of defence capability on several country, Japan, Taiwan, Philippine and even Australia will be wide open to be attacked.



Why are the neocons always choose others first before America.


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## Korean

faithfulguy said:


> And that would not be allowed once conflict begins. The entire Korean force will be under the Pacific command once hostility commences.



This statement comes from your ignorance.

The reason the ROK Defense Ministry commands the US troops in wartime is simple; the Korean defense ministry operates the combined C4I system, not the US. It used to be that the US operated the combined C4I system(Hence the US commands the Korean troops in wartime), but this functionality was handed over to Korea so that the US could save money and pull out some troops.

Yes, the Korean control and command of US troops during the wartime is real.


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## jhungary

faithfulguy said:


> Why are the neocons always choose others first before America.



That is because you don't live in other country that being protected by American Defense umberlla.

This have nothing to do with Neoconservatism, as the country we have troop in Asia are already democratic in nature, you cannot exert more opinion or advantage by presenting force in the area. Unlike Iraq and Afghanistan which we can take advantage over when we have troop stationed there.

If you look at the defense of Japan, Philippine, Australia, New Zealand. They do not have a standing army and one reason or another they cannot afford a standing army (Philippine is too poor, Japan is limited by Constitution, Australia have little population, NZ is too small.) Not to mention Taiwan, If US were to declare absent from Asia, Taiwan will be the first to say no and object this decision.

You cannot use the excuse of promote Democracy to gain advantage when those country are already one.


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## faithfulguy

Korean said:


> This statement comes from your ignorance.
> 
> The reason the ROK Defense Ministry commands the US troops in wartime is simple; the Korean defense ministry operates the combined C4I system, not the US. It used to be that the US operated the combined C4I system(Hence the US commands the Korean troops in wartime), but this functionality was handed over to Korea so that the US could save money and pull out some troops.
> 
> Yes, the Korean control and command of US troops during the wartime is real.



base on the Korean war record, I would be concern for the GIs over there


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## faithfulguy

Korean said:


> This statement comes from your ignorance.
> 
> The reason the ROK Defense Ministry commands the US troops in wartime is simple; the Korean defense ministry operates the combined C4I system, not the US. It used to be that the US operated the combined C4I system(Hence the US commands the Korean troops in wartime), but this functionality was handed over to Korea so that the US could save money and pull out some troops.
> 
> Yes, the Korean control and command of US troops during the wartime is real.



base on the Korean war record, I would be concern for the GIs over there


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## Ibr0kEmYrAz0r

Viet said:


> Not a&#12288;big deal?
> You sent patrol plan over Japanese air space.



LOL, it was never so-call *Jap air space*, they were only administrating the isle.

The fact is that Japan panicked, and sent up military combat planes againist a civilian plane. Of couse this showed their assertiveness towards their claim, but no doubt escalated the confrontation, and could well be causing flash-points in the future if someone incidentally pull the trigger. 

We will wait and see how things will turn out in the next a couple of years.


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## ahfatzia

US concerned by Chinese plane in what China calls *"New Normal"*


WASHINGTON -- The United States Friday voiced concern after a Chinese state-owned plane breached Japanese airspace for the first time to overfly islands at the heart of a bitter row between the two nations.

&#8220;It's important to avoid actions that raise tensions and to prevent miscalculations that could undermine peace, security and economic growth in the region,&#8221; State Department acting deputy spokesman Patrick Ventrell said.

Washington had raised its concerns with Beijing, he said, adding that the United States made clear that its &#8220;policy and commitments regarding the Senkaku Islands are long-standing and have not changed.&#8221;

U.S. officials had also talked to the Japanese government, he added.

Japan scrambled eight F-15 fighter jets Thursday after the first incursion by a Chinese state aircraft into Japanese airspace anywhere since Tokyo's military began monitoring in 1958, the Japanese defense ministry said.

Observers suggest the Chinese move was part of a Chinese campaign to create a &#8220;new normal&#8221; &#8212; where its forces come and go as they please around islands that Beijing calls the Diaoyus, but Tokyo controls as the Senkakus.

US concerned by Chinese plane in Japanese airspace - The China Post


*"New Normal"* indeed, better get used to it.


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## terranMarine

Eight F-15s for just a civilian plane. Not only is Japan desperate but also quickly to panic. Imagine China sending 4 J-11s patrolling, Japan will respond with their entire air force.


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## Korean

The LDP promised to permanently base Japanese government officials at Diayudai.

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## anon45

Korean said:


> The LDP promised to permanently base Japanese government officials at Diayudai.



Also I've seen new reports of a military base being planned for near the Senkakus

On Yonaguni (island?) I believe


PM-in-waiting says disputed islands are Japan's

Japan remains defiant in the face of Chinese escalation.


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## Korean

anon45 said:


> Also I've seen new reports of a military base being planned for near the Senkakus



The DPJ prime minister Noda was trying to minimize friction with China by buying out the islands and keeping them uninhabited.

Dumb China didn't get this and engineered the massive anti-Japan riots across China, which helped Japan's ultra rightwingers come to power with an absolute majority. Now Japanese rightwingers are going to not only strike the article 9 and re-arm, but also firm up Japan's claims on Diaoyudai by permanently basing officials and opening the islands to tourists(Which is what Ishihara wanted to do in the first place, and China helped Ishihara's hands).


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## ahfatzia

Korean said:


> The LDP promised to permanently base Japanese government officials at Diayudai.




You have been posting claim without any proofs these days, what happen, you lost your touch? Or you're simply trolling?


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## jhungary

anon45 said:


> Also I've seen new reports of a military base being planned for near the Senkakus
> 
> 
> PM-in-waiting says disputed islands are Japan's
> 
> Japan remains defiant in the face of Chinese escalation.



Japan already have a unit of Coast guard police stationed in Senkaku. Looks like there will be an escalation on the issue..



terranMarine said:


> Eight F-15s for just a civilian plane. Not only is Japan desperate but also quickly to panic. Imagine China sending 4 J-11s patrolling, Japan will respond with their entire air force.



Dude, it's standard operation procedure to send 1 squad of fighter to investigate or intercept a bogey. This is based on the combat doctorine using finger 4 formation. Which is the basic formation to give each fighter the perfect cover. 

You send 2 planes on a different time, 8 aircraft will be airborne. Simple is that This is not panick, it's SOP.

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## Korean

ahfatzia said:


> You have been posting claim without any proofs these days, what happen, you lost your touch? Or you're simply trolling?



You should be ashamed for being so out of dates with latest news. But that's exactly what I get when talking to Chinese nationalists, so unaware of the situation and out of dates with news.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/11/japa-n24.html



> Japan&#8217;s election dominated by right-wing nationalism
> By Peter Symonds
> 24 November 2012
> 
> Japan&#8217;s elections to take place on December 16 mark a sharp turning point. As the country slides into recession and social tensions rise, parties across the political establishment have shifted to the right, whipping up nationalist sentiment especially over the dispute with China over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands.
> 
> The election campaign is rapidly becoming a contest in which each of the parties seek to outbid each other as proponents of Japanese nationalism and militarism. *The LDP&#8217;s plan to station government officials on the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands is in part aimed at ensuring that it is not outdone by Ishihara and the JRP.*


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## ahfatzia

@ Korean

Sloppy work at best. There are hundreds of articles for you to choose from and it's your job to post the link when you make any out of the ordinary claim.


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## SOHEIL

Chinese bros !!!

you have my support ... 

please do what Americans did in WWII !!!

look at Japanese & Americans ... they are best friends


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## Korean

Soheil said:


> look at Japanese & Americans ... they are best friends


Yes, America has this incredible ability to turn former enemies into their allies.

Countries that China battled in the past on the other hand turn into eternal sworn enemies of China, and this is how China ended up being surrounded by enemies everywhere.


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## beijingwalker

a Korean cheers for their former colonial master Japan??did I see it wrong?


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## SOHEIL

Korean said:


> Yes, America has this incredible ability to turn former enemies into their allies.
> 
> Countries that China battled in the past on the other hand turn into eternal sworn enemies of China, and this is how China ended up being surrounded by enemies everywhere.



& they have an incredible ability to turn former friends into bloody enemies ... 

Japan lost her independence after war ...

& about Iran ...

they gave Saddam chemical weapons to killing Iranian people ...

very impressive ability ... you know ...

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## beijingwalker

By Paul D. Shinkman
December 13, 2012



> China and Japan's aerial posturing on Thursday comes amid turbulence in almost all major Asian powers.
> 
> Japan faces an election on Sunday, in which the incumbent will likely lose to an opponent known for hawkish language toward China. A new Chinese government assembled behind closed doors still seeks to assert its regional power employing a traditionally complicated relationship with its own military establishment.
> 
> [Read: As World Powers Focus on Asia, China Sits at a Crossroads]
> 
> These most recent maneuvers come days after North Korea successfully caught the world's attention with a ballistic missile launch shortly before their neighbors to the south conduct their own elections.
> 
> Continued disputes between Japan and China will likely continue, though a chance of escalation could usher dangerous consequences.
> 
> "One thing I've learned about China: They are never happy. You can never make the Chinese happy," says Thomas Snitch, an Asian conflict expert. "Who knows what the internal dynamic is going on in China after this recent change in party."
> 
> Snitch has previously held senior roles at the National Academy of Sciences and U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency."The Japanese get annoyed because they're living next to this '800-pound gorilla' that just occasionally throws their weight around," he says. "There's not much they can do except swat back at it. I guess that's what scrambling some F-15s will do."
> 
> 
> Japan deployed the fighters after a Chinese surveillance propeller plane flew over a chain of islands both countries claim as theirs.
> 
> This follows months of non-violent engagements between the two militaries as China transitions its domestic forces into a regional power. Japan's military has been limited to self-defense since World War II, but it recently began exporting military aid to its neighbors.
> 
> This most recent incident mirrors the usual provocation and response between the two countries, but that could change.
> 
> "The biggest risk here is the possibility of an accident," a U.S. Navy officer tells U.S. News. "Putting several aircraft in the same space at the same time increases the likelihood of a collision."
> 
> "Scrambling eight fighters was a little aggressive on Japan's part," says the officer, who served in the region on the 7th Fleet commander's staff.
> 
> In 2001, a U.S. Navy EP-3 intelligence aircraft collided mid-air with a Chinese fighter jet killing the Chinese pilot. It led to an international dispute between the two nations often referred to as "The Hainan Island incident." Diplomatic restraint from both sides avoided escalation. The possibility for a repeat accident between China and Japan remains, as the countries use different languages for aerial maneuvers, says the officer, adding Japanese radar often doesn't pick up small Chinese planes like the Y-8 Chinese marine surveillance plane.
> 
> "There is very little potential for deliberate armed engagement by either side," the officer says. "We would obviously be involved in such an incident, urging restraint by both sides and working diplomatic back-channels. We have no interest in seeing this escalate."
> 
> Snitch adds of the potential for a deliberate Japanese offensive response: "What would that be?"
> 
> Support for Shinzo Abe and his Liberal Democratic Party is largely fueled by country-wide disapproval of the current prime minister. It is comparable to the 2008 election in the United States, when Barack Obama won on a sentiment of "anyone but [President George W.] Bush," says Snitch.
> 
> "While I'm sure they're agitated about what China's doing, there is an ethos in Japan that still has the remnants of World War II and that whole anti-military establishment," he says.
> 
> Even if a newly elected Japanese prime minister wanted to ramp up military operations, he would be restricted by wavering public opinion as well as Article IX of the country's constitution, which prohibits an act of war by Japan.
> 
> China, in turn, also has to balance its desires to shore up regional resources against opposition from Japan, which can muster an international coalition.
> 
> "When Japan does something like this, and makes a point to contest the islands, it's probably a smart move," says Snitch. "They can't contest [China] militarily, but what they can do is throw it into an international arena."
> 
> A military response invokes the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, and other allied partners into protecting their own territorial claims against China.
> 
> However, the new government under Xi Jinping still has an unclear relationship with its fighting forces, says Snitch.
> 
> "You have this new group of leadership coming in who obviously have been schooled and groomed for many many years, but suddenly they're in the driver's seat and who knows how much they've been briefed on these things," he says. "The question you have to ask is, 'What is [Jinping's] relationship with the military?' I don't believe anybody in the West knows what that is."


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## Wright

Soheil said:


> Chinese bros !!!
> 
> you have my support ...
> 
> please do what Americans did in WWII !!!
> 
> look at Japanese & Americans ... they are best friends



Iran can supply some missles to China.


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## anon45

Soheil said:


> & they have an incredible ability to turn former friends into bloody enemies ...
> 
> Japan lost her independence after war ...
> 
> & about Iran ...
> 
> they gave Saddam chemical weapons to killing Iranian people ...
> 
> very impressive ability ... you know ...



Offtopic, but why do you focus on the US when compared to many others we were a relatively tiny amount?







Iran has a right to be angry at the world for what happened, but your focus on the US is simply state conditioning and propaganda.

read up more on it here Iraqi Bloggers Central: Where Did Saddam Get His Chemical Weapons?


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## ahfatzia

*Disputes over small islands pose big conundrum for U.S*


(Reuters) - *Far away from the United States and usually far down the list of things Washington worries about, the obscure islets at the center of bitter spats between China and its neighbors have become a flashpoint that could get hotter and embroil America.
*
This week served up fresh evidence that 2013 likely will bring no pause in tensions rippling the seas around China. Japan on Thursday scrambled fighter jets after a Chinese government plane entered what Japan considers its airspace over disputed islets in the East China Sea, just one of many contested sites.

Even as conflicts in the Middle East dominate the U.S. government's foreign policy concerns, the *State Department believes that the multilateral territorial dispute in the South China Sea is one of the most difficult issues globally.*

But it has been relying largely on private diplomacy and broad statements of principle rather than public arm-twisting to try to head off potentially violent miscalculations over the disputes. *Underscoring this concern is the so-called pivot of U.S. attention to Asia, which has involved more rhetoric and consultations than deployment of American military force.*

However, hardly a week passes without incidents over fishing rights or oil exploration activities, and *Washington's approach, while it may have helped avoid outright conflict, does not appear to be dissuading an increasingly assertive China.*

Recent moves by Beijing "in part mean *China has not been deterred by the increased U.S. commitment," said M. Taylor Fravel, *a scholar at the MIT Security Studies Program.

*China has taken de facto control of the Scarborough Shoal*, a reef that falls inside the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, and *now frequently challenges Japan's control of islands it calls the Senkakus.*

Many analysts say intensifying Chinese pressure over the islands issue since 2010 helped fuel the election victory on Sunday of hawkish Japanese ex-premier Shinzo Abe. Abe's campaign included calls for a tougher stance toward China.

The United States is officially neutral on the sovereignty issues and has urged diplomatic talks. It insists that all parties refrain from force and do nothing to impede sea lanes that carry $5 trillion in annual trade.

"These are among the most difficult issues on the global scene and we believe that we have played an appropriate role, oft times behind the scenes, to encourage calm and the maintenance of peace and stability," said Assistant Secretary of State Kurt Campbell, the U.S. point man on the issue.

Some observers say they worry that Asian friends in Manila and Tokyo might not get the full-throated support they have had from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Campbell after those forceful figures in Asia diplomacy leave their posts next year.

Another lingering concern for 2013 is the deep U.S. defense cuts that could kick in if the "fiscal cliff" tax and spending debate fails to get sorted out. That could dent Asian allies' confidence in American staying power or feed Chinese over-confidence.

*NERVOUS STATES LOOK TO U.S.*

*Washington has longstanding security treaties with* two of China's adversaries in the dispute, *Japan and the Philippines*.

*In the case of Japan, Washington explicitly has said the islands *Tokyo administers and calls the Senkakus - and which China claims as the Diaoyu islands - would be *covered by their 1951 security treaty in the event of attack.*

*The Philippines has not received such U.S. assurances over its disputed islets,* but is getting American help improving its tiny navy in the face of increased Chinese pressure.

After talks this week in Manila, Filipino military chief General Jesse Dellosa said he expects the U.S. Navy to increase ship visits in his country next year. He said port calls and emergency repair stops at the former Subic Bay U.S. Naval base increased 30 percent in 2012 compared to last year.

China is locked in increasingly angry disputes with the Philippines and Vietnam over islets in the South China Sea whose surrounding waters hold important fishing grounds and oil and gas reserves.

*Former U.S. foe Vietnam has also stepped up military contacts with Washington.*

*"Lots of states are nervous and they turn to the United States when they're nervous,"* Fravel said.

Compounding neighbors' alarm at the assertive Chinese stance on territorial disputes - which also flared up briefly in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s - is a recent period of China flexing increasing military might, including the launch of its first aircraft carrier and the test flights of stealth jet fighters.

*China often blames the U.S. Asia pivot for goading smaller countries to join an anti-China "containment strategy" - a view many analysts say is wide of the mark,* given vast U.S.-China bilateral trade, investment and exchanges.

*But Manila has been warned by experts and former U.S. officials* visiting the region - most recently former Pentagon number three official Michèle Flournoy last month in Australia - *not to mistake American engagement as a green light to take steps in the disputed waters that provoke China.*

Actual U.S. troop and military hardware movements under the pivot have been small so far, with region-wide force levels stable at some 80,000 troops, mostly in Japan and South Korea.

*The longer-term dilemma for the United States is avoiding conflict with China while protecting the integrity of the global system in the face of Chinese "salami tactics of taking little slices when it can," says James Holmes,* a specialist on maritime strategy at the U.S. Naval War College in Rhode Island.

*"It doesn't really make much difference to us who owns the Senkakus, let alone the Scarborough Shoal," *he said, adding that *fighting China over those rocks would be politically difficult to sell to a war-weary U.S. public.*

But if China *"wants to compel others to agree to the principle that it can unilaterally modify the system, it can pick something that nobody else has a real stake in defending, then it can come back and pick something bigger and more ambitious."
*
*NATIONALISTIC DYNAMICS*

*Admiral Samuel Locklear III*, Commander of the U.S. Pacific Command told reporters last week it was important to *"ensure that all parties remain calm about these things and that we don't unnecessarily introduce war fighting apparatus into these decisions or into these discussions."*

But many U.S. analysts worry about the dynamics of disputes with several parties all facing nationalistic pressure to respond to perceived challenges. Amid increased naval activities, poor communications could lead to accidents at sea.

*"The fundamental tragedy of territorial disputes is that each country believes its actions are purely defensive and just protecting their claims and that the actions of opponents are offensive,"* said Fravel.

Disputes over small islands pose big conundrum for U.S | Reuters


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## ahfatzia

*China said mulling law to justify security patrols*


*To secure its maritime interests, China has improved coordination between its military and its government bodies that enforce laws, the Defense Ministry's think tank said in a report Wednesday.*

The report by the National Institute for Defense Studies noted "a clear pattern of collaboration" between *the People's Liberation Army and Chinese government departments in the field of maritime security, referring to joint drills and exercises between the PLA and maritime law enforcement agencies.*

The institute's 2012 China Security Report said the Chinese military is likely to be deployed to missions on the sea to protect China's rights in support of the maritime law-enforcement agencies if neighboring countries send military forces to disputed areas.

*"Thus, the neighboring countries will need to respond with an assumption that the PLA and/or PLAN (People's Liberation Army Navy) may be brought in,"* the report warned.

China has been engaged in territorial disputes with countries including Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam in the East China Sea and the South China Sea.

The NIDS also said the PLA has requested the enactment of an "ocean basic law" to safeguard China's territorial sovereignty as well as security and economic interests.

*"The PLA and other maritime-related departments have now taken proactive measures toward drafting an integrated maritime strategy and legislation, which provides momentum to the eventual enactment" *of the basic law, according to the report.

The think tank warned that as a result of strengthened interagency coordination, China could take "more assertive measures" to protect its maritime rights and interests in disputed waters.

The NIDS urged Beijing to* "be more accountable for the future direction of its maritime strategy based on international rules," *saying its maritime strategic trends are *"a matter of international concern."*

Masayuki Masuda, senior fellow at the NIDS Research Department, said at a news conference he believes Beijing will not mobilize the military to the Japan-controlled Senkaku Islands unless tensions between the two countries further escalate.

China said mulling law to justify security patrols | The Japan Times Online


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## ahfatzia

*China ships in disputed waters, first since poll: Japan*








TOKYO: *Chinese state-owned ships entered territorial waters around disputed islands, Japan's coastguard said on Friday, in the first intrusion since a new government was elected in Tokyo.*

*The move is a setback to hopes in Japan that Beijing might use the poll as a chance for a fresh **start* after months of bitter wrangling and rhetoric over an issue that neither side is prepared to budge on.

*"Three Chinese surveillance ships entered the territorial waters near Kubajima,"* said a Japanese coastguard official, referring to one of the islands in the Senkaku chain, known as Diaoyu in China.

The coastguard said three Chinese ships were spotted northwest of Kubajima island at around 10:20am (0120 GMT).

*A fisheries patrol ship was also in the contiguous waters 37 kilometres (23 miles) west-northwest **of Uotsurijima island*, it said.

China has sent its official ships into the islands waters frequently since Tokyo nationalised the islands in September, with analysts saying Beijing intends to prove it can come and go as it pleases in the area.

The ante was raised last week when a Chinese plane flew over the area, in what Japan said was the first time Beijing had breached its airspace since at least 1958. Tokyo scrambled fighter jets in response.

But the State Oceanic Administration vessels have remained outside the 12-nautical-mile ring of the archipelago's territorial waters since Sunday's election, in which the hawkish Shinzo Abe swept to power, vowing a tough line on Beijing.

In one of his first broadcast interviews after the poll win, *he said there was no room for compromise in the row and put the onus for improved relations on Beijing.*

*"Japan and China need to share the recognition that having good relations is in the national interests of both countries," *he said.* "China lacks this recognition a little bit. I want them to think anew about mutually beneficial strategic relations."*

Abe has pushed an agenda that includes upgrading the country's "Self Defence Forces" to make them a full-scale military, and has spoken of wanting to revise Japan's pacifist constitution.

But analysts have said at least some of this could be posturing.

They point to the pragmatism of his earlier 2006-2007 tenure as prime minister, when his opinions on controversial issues that could aggravate China were ambiguous or were just left unsaid.

As premier he stayed away from Yasukuni Shrine, which honours Japan's war dead, including Class A war criminals, and is a running sore in Tokyo's relations with its neighbours.

Abe also made China his first foreign destination.

Following his victory on Sunday, he said he would make rebuilding Japan's alliance with Washington his top foreign policy goal and said it would be the first place he visits after assuming office.

Despite warm words about the importance of economic ties with Beijing -- China is Japan's biggest trading partner -- Abe stressed the need to build relations with other countries, such as India and Australia.

China ships in disputed waters, first since poll: Japan - Channel NewsAsia


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## beijingwalker

China dares Shinzo Abe with ship mission
By Saibal Dasgupta, TNN | Dec 22, 2012, 05.50 AM IST



> BEIJING: The Chinese government tried to literally test the waters when it sent three ships around the disputed Diaoyu islands near Japan's coast soon after the election of right wing leader Shinzo Abe as Japan's prime minister with the promise to "stop the challenge" from China.
> 
> The move, which might result in a reaction from Abe, may to lead to serious tension in the East China Sea, observers said. This is the first time that China resumed patrols in the area after the Japanese polls last week. On reaching the island, the fleet owned by China's State Oceanic Administration used loud speakers asking Japan's coast guards to leave as they had "illegally entered the area". Six Japanese ships in the area did not react to the presence of Chinese vessels.
> 
> A plane with Japan's maritime self-defence force and a helicopter from its media NHK were seen above the fleet, the agency said. "The Chinese ships collected evidence of the Japanese ships and planes' infringement on China's sovereignty," it said.


----------



## acid rain

You forgot to add the source.

China dares Shinzo Abe with ship mission - The Times of India


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## Srinivas

China is trolling all the way from East sea to Indian ocean, needs some kind of Infraction


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## Kolaps

The people who take a side with Japan on Diaoyu island issue are....

1. They don't know the location of Diaoyu island on the map.

2. They are hardcore anti-Chinese.

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## anon45

Kolaps said:


> The people who take a side with Japan on Diaoyu island issue are....
> 
> 1. They don't know the location of Diaoyu island on the map.
> 
> 2. They are hardcore anti-Chinese.



Those who take the side of China on Senkaku island issue are....

1. They believe geographical distance is the only indicator that matters in all cases, no exceptions.

2. They are hardcore anti-Japanese.

See, I can categorize too, and pigeonhole people too!

We both know know the issue is more complicated then that...


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## ahfatzia

*Japan's incoming PM pledges to mend ties with China*






_Incoming Japanese PM Shinzo Abe (C) and his wife Akie (R) offer prayers as they visit the grave of their family in Nagato,
_

TOKYO: *Japan's incoming premier on Saturday pledged to seek a thaw in ties with China after a report said he will send a special envoy on a fence-mending mission to Beijing.*

Ties between Japan and China have become increasingly strained over a disputed island chain -- the Tokyo-controlled Senkakus, which Beijing calls the Diaoyus -- with neither side willing to budge after months of bitter wrangling.

*"I want to make efforts to return to the starting point of developing the mutually beneficial relationship based on common strategic interests,*" Shinzo Abe told reporters.

*"The Japan-China relationship is one of extremely important bilateral ties,"* he said.

The comments came after the business daily Nikkei reported Abe will send Masahiko Komura, the vice president of his Liberal Democratic Party, to deliver a letter to Chinese authorities next month.

They also came a day after China sent ships into territorial waters around the disputed islands, in the first incursion since Japan elected a new government.

*"I will shoulder grave responsibility (for Japan's future),"* Abe, who will officially be appointed as prime minister on Wednesday, told supporters in his constituency in western Japan earlier Saturday.

*"My mission is to bring a breakthrough in the serious situations we face in economy, diplomacy, and education."
*
Abe said on Friday he will dispatch former finance minister Fukushiro Nukaga to deliver a letter to South Korea's president-elect Park Geun-Hye, who also triumphed in national elections just days ago.

Tokyo is embroiled in a separate row with Seoul over a different set of islets, with tensions flaring up earlier this year after outgoing South Korean president Lee Myung-Bak paid a sudden visit to the disputed territory.

*"Abe intends to improve frayed ties with South Korea and with China by sending special envoys," *the* Nikkei said*, without citing sources.

Abe's sweeping parliamentary victory on Sunday was greeted with caution in Beijing and Seoul, with China saying it was "highly concerned" over Japan's future direction under the new government.

*In one of his first broadcast interviews after the parliamentary win, Abe said there was no room for compromise on the sovereignty of the disputed islands, calling them "Japan's inherent territory", and putting the onus for improved relations on Beijing.*

Despite warm words about the importance of economic ties with Beijing -- China is Japan's biggest trading partner -- Abe stressed the need to build relations with other countries, such as India and Australia.

Analysts have said at least some of this could be posturing, with some believing Abe's LDP will have easier communication with China due to the contacts it developed during its more than half a century rule before it was ousted in 2009.

*Abe said Saturday there was "no change in our plans to study" stationing officials on the disputed islands *-- a controversial policy option that would further provoke Beijing.

Japan's incoming PM pledges to mend ties with China - Channel NewsAsia


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## ahfatzia

*Abe decides not to station officials on the Senkaku Islands*






_LDP Vice President Masahiko Komura  head of the Diet Members League for Friendship of Japan and China  as a special envoy to Beijing, given his ties with Chinese officials.
_

NAGATO, Yamaguchi Pref.  *Incoming Prime Minister Shinzo Abe decided Saturday not to station officials on the Senkaku Islands to avoid further aggravating ties with China, at least for the time being.*

The head of the Liberal Democratic Party, which scored a landslide victory in last week's general election, said during campaigning that the party would consider permanently posting officials on the uninhabited Senkakus to strengthen Japan's control over the island chain, which is also claimed by China and Taiwan.

*Despite the flip-flop, however, Abe told reporters that "there is no change in our thinking"* about stationing officials on the East China Sea islets.

*Abe pledged to take a tough stance over the dispute but has been toning down his hawkish rhetoric since winning the Lower House election.* LDP sources said Friday *the party will also postpone a state-sponsored event in February intended to promote Japan's claim to the Takeshima Islands controlled by South Korea, which calls them Dokdo, in the Sea of Japan.*

The territorial flare-ups have been major sources of friction with Beijing and Seoul in recent months.

Chinese vessels have been moving in and out of Japanese territorial waters near the Senkaku Islands since the government purchased a major portion of them in mid-September from a private owner. Meanwhile, outgoing South Korean President Lee Myung Bak's unprecedented visit to the Takeshima isles in August chilled bilateral relations with Seoul.

*"The bilateral relationship with China is one of Japan's most crucial"* diplomatic policies, Abe said.* "We want to make efforts to reset ties and start developing a mutually reciprocal relationship (with Beijing)."*

Abe is intending to send LDP Vice President Masahiko Komura  head of the Diet Members League for Friendship of Japan and China  as a special envoy to Beijing, given his ties with Chinese officials, according to sources familiar with the matter.

Abe pauses on Senkakus postings | The Japan Times Online


Nothing earth shattering here, just as many predicted.


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## ahfatzia

*Korea, China overlap claims on East China Sea shelf*






_Socotra Rock or Suyan Rock &#33487;&#23721;&#30977; Ieodo &#38626;&#26044;&#23798; EEZ dispute between China and South Korea_


*Korea and China made overlapping claims to an extended portion of continental shelf beyond their exclusive economic zones (EEZs) in the East China Sea, with Seoul set to submit its official claim to a United Nations body this week, *officials and experts said Sunday.

*Beijing presented its official document to the U.N. Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf (CLCS) on Dec. 14, claiming that its natural prolongation of the continental shelf in the sea extends to the Okinawa Trough,* according to local media reports.

Its demarcation is extended north-eastward toward Korea compared to its 2009 preliminary document, experts said.

*"In 2009, the Chinese version was located in much southern areas than the recent one," *said an expert on the issue.* "The extension toward Korea seems to guard against its neighbor."
*
In its formal report on its continental shelf set to be submitted to the U.N. CLCS later this week, *Seoul will also extend its demarcation south-eastward than its previous version, which will widen the overlapping part claimed by the two countries*, according to foreign ministry sources here.

*Korea and China have reportedly shared a largely similar stance on the issue, while being at odds with Japan,* but the overlapping claims this time could heighten tension, said observers.

*The U.N. convention stipulates* that, *if the continental shelf of a coastal state extends beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the width of the territorial sea is measured, the relevant information on its limits of the shelf shall be submitted by the country to the U.N. CLCS.*

In the EEZ, a country is eligible for exclusive rights to the exploration and use of marine resources.

The continental shelf in the East China Sea is believed to contain rich natural gas and oil deposits. (Yonhap)

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/12/120_127474.html


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## anon45

> WASHINGTON--*The U.S. Congress has approved a defense policy bill for fiscal 2013, which reconfirms the Senkaku Islands are subject to Article 5 of the Japan-U.S. security treaty obliging the United States to defend Japan in case of hostilities.
> *
> The Senate on Friday voted in favor of the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal 2013 after the House of Representatives approved it Thursday. It will be officially enacted with the signature of U.S. President Barack Obama.
> 
> *"The unilateral actions of a third party will not affect [the] United States acknowledgement of the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands,"* the provision in the bill said, apparently in reference to China, which disputes Japan's sovereignty over the islands.
> 
> The bill also said, *"The United States reaffirms its commitment to the Government of Japan under Article V of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security that '[e]ach Party recognizes that an armed attack against either Party in the territories under the administration of Japan would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional provisions and processes.'"*
> 
> Additionally, the bill said the East China Sea, including the Senkaku Islands, is "a vital part of the maritime commons of Asia, including critical sea lanes of communication and commerce that benefit all nations of the Asia-Pacific region...the peaceful settlement of territorial and jurisdictional disputes in the East China Sea requires the exercise of self-restraint by all parties."
> 
> *The Obama administration has already clarified its position that the Japan-U.S. security policy could be applied to Senkakus.*
> 
> Since many U.S. Congress members are hard-liners against China, the bill apparently aims to show U.S. support for Japan, one of its allies, and to urge the Obama administration to take stronger measures within the range of its official stance.




Bill confirms U.S. backing on Senkakus / 'Security treaty applies to isles' in Okinawa : National : DAILY YOMIURI ONLINE (The Daily Yomiuri)


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## jhungary

anon45 said:


> Those who take the side of China on Senkaku island issue are....
> 
> 1. They believe geographical distance is the only indicator that matters in all cases, no exceptions.
> 
> 2. They are hardcore anti-Japanese.
> 
> See, I can categorize too, and pigeonhole people too!
> 
> We both know know the issue is more complicated then that...



Actually, you should add one more category.

All Land used to belong to Chinese were still Chinese land regardless of how old they were or if they were settled.......

people study law would know EEZ mean shxt in term of soverignty, EEZ (except for the 12 nm territorial water) are international water, you can do shxt all to other national shipping unless it is doing economic things. EEZ only give exclusive Economic right, not exclusive freedom of Passage to country that hold that EEZ.

Other People don't believe or have stance on Senkaku issue, only Chinese, Taiwanese and Japanese do. So these kind of categorize are pointless to start with.

I believe in international court of justice, permantent court for abitration. This is my stance.


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## Type 055

Leader Xi needs to get hardline. I feel the CPC are a bunch of liberals. I want tough men in power. I want our own version of Vladimir Putin.


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## T-Rex

anon45 said:


> Those who take the side of China on Senkaku island issue are....
> 
> 1. They believe geographical distance is the only indicator that matters in all cases, no exceptions.
> 
> 2. They are hardcore anti-Japanese.
> 
> See, I can categorize too, and pigeonhole people too!
> 
> We both know know the issue is more complicated then that...



*If the island is close to Japan then it is Japanese and if it is close to China then it is Japan. We understand your 'logic', no problem.*

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## anon45

T-Rex said:


> *If the island is close to Japan then it is Japanese and if it is close to China then it is Japan. We understand your 'logic', no problem.*



Why bother even responding to you? You want simple answers for a complex problem, far be it from me to teach you...


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## ahfatzia

*China "highly vigilant" over Japanese fighters flying over disputed islands*


(Reuters) - *China is "highly vigilant" about Japanese jet fighter flights over islands* claimed by both countries *and Japan must bear responsibility for any consequences*, Chinese military and maritime officials said on Thursday.

The officials, speaking a day after a new hawkish Japanese prime minister took office, were *responding to Japan sending jet fighters several times in the past two weeks to intercept Chinese patrol planes approaching airspace above the islands.*

The situation in the volatile East China Sea region has severely strained relations between Beijing and Tokyo.

*"We will decisively fulfill our tasks and missions while coordinating with relevant departments...so as to safeguard China's maritime law enforcement activities and protect the country's territorial integrity and maritime rights," *Defence Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun told a news conference.

*Japan's Defence Ministry has acknowledged scrambling F-15 jets on several occasions in recent weeks to intercept Chinese marine surveillance planes approaching the islands,* called the Diaoyu in Chinese and the Senkaku by Japan.

It says a Chinese aircraft breached what it considers Japanese airspace for the first time on December 13.

The Japanese government administers the islands and purchased three of them from a private owner this past summer, sparking violent anti-Japanese protests across China.

New Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has promised not to yield in the dispute over the islands and boost defense spending to counter Beijing's growing military clout.

*"The Japanese side is using military aircraft to interfere with planes on normal patrol in undisputed Chinese airspace,"* said Shi Qingfeng, director general of the Administration Office of the State Oceanic Administration, the agency whose ships patrol disputed waters in the South and East China Seas.

*"This is highly unreasonable conduct and the Japanese side is consciously trying to escalate the situation," *Shi said at a presentation for Chinese media and diplomats. *"The Japanese side must assume responsibility for the consequences."*

China has been increasingly flexing its military and political influence in the western Pacific, forcefully asserting territorial claims while it builds up its military forces.

Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also claim parts of the South China Sea.

To China's east, the island conflict with Japan has led to tense confrontations in the waters around the islands.

*"China-Japan defense relations are an important and sensitive part of bilateral ties, and the Japanese side should face up to the difficulties and problems that currently exist," *Yang said.

China highly vigilant over Japanese fighters flying over disputed islands | Reuters

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## anon45

Chinese plane flies near Senkaku Islands : National : DAILY YOMIURI ONLINE (The Daily Yomiuri)



> The Air Self-Defense Force scrambled fighter jets after a Chinese government plane approached the Senkaku Islands on Monday.
> 
> The Chinese plane flew as close as about 120 kilometers north of the islands* but did not intrude into Japanese airspace*.
> 
> ASDF jets were also sent to the area on Saturday when a Chinese plane approached the islands, which China claims



And Japan continues to fly aircraft over its own airspace while China cowers back in terror at the magnitude of the Japanese response.


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## yusheng

China: Military vigilant on Japan's move on Diaoyu
12-27-2012 19:35 BJT 

Special Reportiaoyu Islands: China&#8217;s Inherent Territory | 



By CCTV reporter Han Bin

The Chinese military has reiterated its resolution to protect the country's maritime territory. At its regular press conference on Thursday, the Ministry of National Defense's spokesman Yang Yujun said the People&#8217;s Liberation Army is ready to provide support to fishing and law enforcement activities in the waters around the Diaoyu Islands. 

For the past several months, Chinese surveillance ships have moved in and out of the waters around the Diaoyu islands. Aircrafts have also taken part. The Chinese military says that it&#8217;s the army&#8217;s duty to provide security support.

Yang Yujun, Spokesman, Ministry of National Defense, said, "We'll resolutely fulfill our missions and tasks and coordinate closely with maritime surveillance and other departments of law enforcement, and provide security support to their activities, and jointly safeguard our maritime interests and rights."

The spokesman said that the Chinese military has remained vigilant monitoring the actions of Japan's Air Self-Defense force. In a previous statement, China also said that Japan had stepped up its surveillance of regular Chinese naval and air activities, which could lead to misinterpretation. Relations between China and Japan have been strained since the Japanese government moved to purchase the Diaoyu islands in September. Countermeasures have been taken by China to deal with the dispute.

Yang Yujun, Spokesman, Ministry of National Defense, said, "What is important now is for Japan to face squarely these difficulties and take effective measures to maintain the overall interests of China-Japan relations."

Both China and Japan have expressed their sovereignty over the Diaoyu islands. The issue offers a test of wisdom and courage for the newly elected leaders of the two countries. As tensions continue to rise, many believe that more military involvement in waters around the islands could be inevitable.

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## ahfatzia

*Japan new foreign minister vows China patch-up*







_Japan's new Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida holds a news conference at the foreign ministry in Tokyo_


TOKYO: *Japan's new foreign minister said on Friday he would work to patch up ties with China, soured over a bitter territorial row that has blighted relations for months.
*
*"I believe it is very important to have good communication between the two governments, as well as between two foreign ministers,"* Fumio Kishida said in an interview with journalists.

*"It is primarily important that I, as foreign minister, make the effort to deepen communications between the two countries," *he said.

*Kishida*, seen as* a relative dove** in the government of hawkish new Prime Minister **Shinzo Abe*, begins the top diplomatic job as ties with China show few signs of improving following an ill-tempered territorial stand-off.

Abe won conservative support in national polls earlier this month with his forthright pronouncements on a group of East China Sea islands that Tokyo controls, vowing not to budge on Japan's claim to the Senkaku chain.

China also lays claim to the islands, which it calls the Diaoyu.

Additionally, Abe has said he would consider revising Japan's post-war pacifist constitution, alarming officials in Beijing and Seoul.

But he has quickly toned down the campaign rhetoric and has said he wants improved ties with China, Japan's biggest trading partner. He called for a solution through what he described as "patient exchanges".

*"I am aware that some view the new Cabinet as right-leaning,"* Kishida said. *"As a state, we need to do whatever we need to do to construct firm national security."
*
Kishida, 55, a former banker who leads a liberal faction in the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, was an unexpected pick by Abe.

However, his experience as a state minister in Abe's cabinet during his first prime ministerial incarnation, dealing with territorial disputes with Russia and in Okinawan affairs, proved a plus.

*Japan and Russia have never signed a post-Second World War peace treaty because of an unresolved spat over the ownership of islands to the north of the archipelago.
*
In Okinawa, the presence of a large number of US military personnel is a major source of contention for the local population, but a vital strand of Tokyo's defence pact with Washington.

Japan new foreign minister vows China patch-up - Channel NewsAsia


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## Knight of Tang

1.Clean your BUTT in middle-east first and then come playing with us.
2.Beware of your watchdog, don't let it bite your own hands again!


anon45 said:


> Chinese plane flies near Senkaku Islands : National : DAILY YOMIURI ONLINE (The Daily Yomiuri)
> 
> 
> 
> And Japan continues to fly aircraft over its own airspace while China cowers back in terror at the magnitude of the Japanese response.


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## anon45

Knight of Tang said:


> 1.Clean your BUTT in middle-east first and then come playing with us.
> 2.Beware of your watchdog, don't let it bite your own hands again!



1.You imply the US hasn't had military forces in Asia for decades, an ignorant assumption. The PRC is the newbie to the area not the US.

2.You should worry about your own home country alienating those around it before you worry about the US. We're doing great thanks to your home country's diplomatic missteps and arrogance. 

2013 will be an interesting year.


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## ahfatzia

*China 'not fear troubles' regarding Diaoyu Islands: official*


BEIJING, Dec. 28 (Xinhua) -- *Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Zhijun said Friday that China will neither create nor fear any troubles concerning the Diaoyu Islands.*

He made the remarks in response to a question concerning China-Japan relations at the eighth Lanting Forum.

*Zhang said the Diaoyu Island and its affiliated islets are inherent parts of China's territory, and Chinese government and its people's determination to safeguard the country's territorial sovereignty is firm.*

*"We hope for a stable and peaceful surrounding environment, we will not create troubles, but we definitely not fear any trouble,"* Zhang said.

China believes the two sides should manage the issue through talks and consultations to avoid escalation, he said.

*"We hope the Japanese side can face history and reality and make correct decisions in order to properly handle the issue," *he said, adding that stable and healthy bilateral relations are in the interests of the two countries and the region.

Zhang added that China has recognized that some officials in Japan's newly established cabinet have shown willingness to boost bilateral ties, adding that China hopes Japan's new government can improve ties and properly handle differences.

Zhang said *China has paid great attention to the development of Japan's domestic politics and hopes Japan will follow a path of peaceful development,* which he described as the premise of *Japan's constructive role in maintaining regional peace and stability.*

China 'not fear troubles' regarding Diaoyu Islands: official - People's Daily Online

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## Knight of Tang

1. Where did you find my "implication" saying that you have ever stopped interfering others' affairs? And, China dominates THIS AREA long before your ancestor found America! Maybe one hundred year sounds long enough for a country with only two hundred years history, but it's no more than a nap for a country with a history of 5 thousand years. Now tell me whose assumption is more ignorant?

2. China is doing well to reestablish the power and reclaim some long lost interests, I'm very glad to see the change of our foreign policies. Meanwhile, it is very natural to have some complaints around while a rising power expands the influence in this area. As for the arrogance, you are self-illustrating that nobody can compare with Americans.





anon45 said:


> 1.You imply the US hasn't had military forces in Asia for decades, an ignorant assumption. The PRC is the newbie to the area not the US.
> 
> 2.You should worry about your own home country alienating those around it before you worry about the US. We're doing great thanks to your home country's diplomatic missteps and arrogance.
> 
> 2013 will be an interesting year.


----------



## anon45

Knight of Tang said:


> 1. Where did you find my "implication" saying that you have ever stopped interfering others' affairs? And, China dominates THIS AREA long before your ancestor found America! Maybe one hundred year sounds long enough for a country with only two hundred years history, but it's no more than a nap for a country with a history of 5 thousand years. Now tell me whose assumption is more ignorant?


 Your implication about waiting til we got out of the Middle-East to 'play with China' implies we do not have forces in Asia significant enough to pose a major problem to China. We do, and the US is a global power and thus capable of having significant amounts of force in more than 1 region. 

Your PRC has been in existence for less than the time the US has been a major player in the region. 

Your assumption is more ignorant because you are are using strawman arguments instead of reading what I said. 

Much as there is a difference between Ancient Rome and modern Italy, there is a difference between the various Ancient Chinese dynasties and the PRC both structurally and culturally. Mao made sure of that.



Knight of Tang said:


> 2. China is doing well to reestablish the power and reclaim some long lost interests, I'm very glad to see the change of our foreign policies. Meanwhile, it is very natural to have some complaints around while a rising power expands the influence in this area. As for the arrogance, you are self-illustrating that nobody can compare with Americans.



Your hubris is present in your post and your aren't even aware of it. My point is illustrated.


----------



## Knight of Tang

The point is not whether you have the "significant force in Asia", it is if you have the WILL to be involved in some direct confrontations with China and if it meets your own interest while you still have other games to play with higher priority (from my perspective). What US want is just to place the bomb but not to light the fuse, and you will benefit the most from the intensive situation but not the direct confrontations, at least not now. 

No matter when PRC has been founded, she still holds the heritage of Chinese civilization and the majority part of Chinese territory. It is still China, don't you think you have played long enough in other's backyards? I admit that you have the most powerful military force around the world nowadays but that doesn't lend you any authority to interfere others' affair at your own will. Maybe you could decades ago, but you must be very careful from now on since China is rising and regaining her power now.

It is funny to think Mao himself can change the entire Chinese culture, he might have done some damage for a while but it won't last for long. Just as I said, few decades gap in Chinese history is no more than a glitch in the whole system. Chinese culture is in our blood and carved in our mind, that must be different from your Rome and Italy story. And it is exactly Mao himself ensured that the social structure of PRC remains similar as the "various ancient Chinese dynasties". He is just another emperor or maybe as you westerner's way of naming, a dictator. 

It is obviously that you have no idea about what I said but not I am stabbing a straw man.



anon45 said:


> Your implication about waiting til we got out of the Middle-East to 'play with China' implies we do not have forces in Asia significant enough to pose a major problem to China. We do, and the US is a global power and thus capable of having significant amounts of force in more than 1 region.
> 
> Your PRC has been in existence for less than the time the US has been a major player in the region.
> 
> Your assumption is more ignorant because you are are using strawman arguments instead of reading what I said.
> 
> Much as there is a difference between Ancient Rome and modern Italy, there is a difference between the various Ancient Chinese dynasties and the PRC both structurally and culturally. Mao made sure of that.
> 
> 
> 
> Your hubris is present in your post and your aren't even aware of it. My point is illustrated.


----------



## anon45

Knight of Tang said:


> The point is not whether you have the "significant force in Asia", it is if you have the WILL to be involved in some direct confrontations with China and if it meets your own interest while you still have other games to play with higher priority (from my perspective). What US want is just to place the bomb but not to light the fuse, and you will benefit the most from the intensive situation but not the direct confrontations, at least not now.



We have articulated multiple times that we have the will to be involved in direct confrontations if China pushes us too far. What constitutes pushing us too far is military attacks on our allies. This is in writing and so we are bound lest we lose all credibility. Of course we don't want to light the fuse on Asia, no one does, no not even China. It is in our interest for a stable Asia that is part of and working with the global order rather than an unstable Asia embroiled in war. That said our treaties take precedence. We benefit from the intense situation, but only insofar that China is actively making that situation more intense through its own missteps. We would benefit far more from a cooperative China in the region, but China hasn't seen fit to cooperate, so we have this situation. We aren't forcing China to alienate everyone around it, thats all China, you can't blame us for taking advantage of your missteps when you so clearly position yourself as our adversary in the region.

No matter when PRC has been founded, she still holds the heritage of Chinese civilization and the majority part of Chinese territory. It is still China, don't you think you have played long enough in other's backyards? I admit that you have the most powerful military force around the world nowadays but that doesn't lend you any authority to interfere others' affair at your own will. Maybe you could decades ago, but you must be very careful from now on since China is rising and regaining her power now.



Knight of Tang said:


> It is funny to think Mao himself can change the entire Chinese culture, he might have done some damage for a while but it won't last for long. Just as I said, few decades gap in Chinese history is no more than a glitch in the whole system. Chinese culture is in our blood and carved in our mind, that must be different from your Rome and Italy story. And it is exactly Mao himself ensured that the social structure of PRC remains similar as the "various ancient Chinese dynasties". He is just another emperor or maybe as you westerner's way of naming, a dictator.
> 
> It is obviously that you have no idea about what I said but not I am stabbing a straw man.



You expanded my argument about the PRC to the rest of the Chinese dynasties that came before, and as far as Im concerned that is a strawman. 

The PRC is seperate from those dynasties in government, process, function, and society. The infusion of western ideas, processes, and ideals have done the most to change it.

Your 'blood and minds' argument is weak. Culture is not inherent, it is taught.


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## Type 052D

anon45 said:


> We have articulated multiple times that we have the will to be involved in direct confrontations if China pushes us too far. What constitutes pushing us too far is military attacks on our allies. This is in writing and so we are bound lest we lose all credibility. Of course we don't want to light the fuse on Asia, no one does, no not even China. It is in our interest for a stable Asia that is part of and working with the global order rather than an unstable Asia embroiled in war. That said our treaties take precedence. We benefit from the intense situation, but only insofar that China is actively making that situation more intense through its own missteps. We would benefit far more from a cooperative China in the region, but China hasn't seen fit to cooperate, so we have this situation. We aren't forcing China to alienate everyone around it, thats all China, you can't blame us for taking advantage of your missteps when you so clearly position yourself as our adversary in the region.
> 
> No matter when PRC has been founded, she still holds the heritage of Chinese civilization and the majority part of Chinese territory. It is still China, don't you think you have played long enough in other's backyards? I admit that you have the most powerful military force around the world nowadays but that doesn't lend you any authority to interfere others' affair at your own will. Maybe you could decades ago, but you must be very careful from now on since China is rising and regaining her power now.
> 
> 
> 
> You expanded my argument about the PRC to the rest of the Chinese dynasties that came before, and as far as Im concerned that is a strawman.
> 
> The PRC is seperate from those dynasties in government, process, function, and society. The infusion of western ideas, processes, and ideals have done the most to change it.
> 
> Your 'blood and minds' argument is weak. Culture is not inherent, it is taught.



We suffered an century of humulliation that no American would understand. The french and British looted, The Japanese invaded, the USA discriminated Migrant worker in the 1890s etc. We vowed never again to be not be taken advantage of, we lost 30 million to the Japanese and 20 million to Mao. We never went so low in our 4,000 year history. The West pacific is now Chinese influnced area in economics and a US influenced aea in Political/Millitary sence I doubt such an confrentation should happen.


----------



## Knight of Tang

Please notice that it is NOT "China pushes USA and your allies too far", it is exactly the opposite. Your allies pushed us into this intensive situation by nationalizing the disputable area and harassing our fishing boats at a very sensitive time spot under your acquiescence or maybe even instigation. The responsibility of the current situation should not be placed upon us, and such provocative moves initiated by japanese left us no choice but to make the corresponding response. It is Japanese who sent their aircrafts into this area but not us, who do you think is now escalating the situation? Your ill logic cannot make any stand on this point.

I am not blaming you for taking any advantages, no matter from what, that's for your own good and that's what a government supposed to do. But I don't think what Chinese government does are missteps, we're just doing what we have to from our own interest and based on our current capability, that shouldn't be put to blame either. We are not positioning ourselves as anyone's adversary, it is a natural block divided by ideology, nationality and culture. What I meant was that you and your allies should also adjust your biased viewpoint and start to accept a rising China with demand of a growing interest here in Asia and even around the world. You Americans are not born to be the only global power and you have no granted authorities from anywhere to set up the global order just according to your own will, it's time to share some of your vested interest with us. That's pretty fair from my perspective. And, even step back to your point, since you mentioned the "global order", may I ask what is the foundation of the current global order after the WWII? What we are claiming now is exactly what was written in the Cairo Declaration and Potsdam Declaration. It is not us breaking the "global order"!

Let's sum up, 1. It is you and your allies broke the order and initiated then escalated this intensive situation. 2. It is you keep blaming us from doing what we have to in protection of our own interests. 3. Actually we all know that all of these discussions are BS and power means everything.

P.S as for the culture part, please don't comment on anything you are not able to understand. I have repeated for several times, few decades or maybe even a hundred years gap in Chinese history cannot break the heritage of the long live Chinese culture. It's nothing about what you said there, doesn't make any sense.



anon45 said:


> We have articulated multiple times that we have the will to be involved in direct confrontations *if China pushes us too far.* What constitutes pushing us too far is military attacks on our allies. This is in writing and so we are bound lest we lose all credibility. Of course we don't want to light the fuse on Asia, no one does, no not even China. It is in our interest for a stable Asia that is part of and working with the *global order* rather than an unstable Asia embroiled in war. That said our treaties take precedence. We benefit from the intense situation, but only insofar that China is actively making that situation more intense through its own missteps. We would benefit far more from a cooperative China in the region, but China hasn't seen fit to cooperate, so we have this situation. We aren't forcing China to alienate everyone around it, thats all China, you can't blame us for taking advantage of your missteps when you so clearly position yourself as our adversary in the region.
> 
> You expanded my argument about the PRC to the rest of the Chinese dynasties that came before, and as far as Im concerned that is a strawman.
> 
> The PRC is seperate from those dynasties in government, process, function, and society. The infusion of western ideas, processes, and ideals have done the most to change it.
> 
> Your 'blood and minds' argument is weak. Culture is not inherent, it is taught.


----------



## Vitchilo

Chinese think tank: conflict inevitable between Japan, China over Senkakus - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun


> With the rise of China as Asia's leading economic power, a Chinese government think tank says the nation's conflict with Japan over the Senkaku Islands is inevitable at a time when its bilateral relations are changing as a consequence.
> 
> The Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS) also said in its annual report that the two countries relationship will enter into a highly unstable period.
> 
> While thinking that the conflict over the islands could be prolonged, China is now paying attention to what action the new Japanese government, headed by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, will take.
> 
> The report on the development of the Asia-Pacific region points out that Chinas rapid development is raising anxieties in surrounding nations, forcing them into taking precautions and requiring them to accept the readjustment of the power balance.
> 
> As for the Senkaku Islands, the report explained that Japans right-wing groups, which have gained strength through the countrys two decades of a sluggish economy called the lost 20 years, regarded U.S. policy of pivoting to Asia as the best opportunity to nationalize the islands. In September, Japan purchased three of the five Senkaku Islands, called the Diaoyu Islands in China, from a private landowner.
> 
> Until the new power balance is established in the fields of politics and economics, prolongation of the conflict is inevitable. As a result, Japan-China relations will enter into a highly volatile period, the report said.
> 
> Japans nationalization of the Diaoyu Islands destroyed the framework for keeping a balance, which means shelving a conflict,  a Chinese diplomatic source said.
> 
> China has no political methods to return the situation to the (pre-nationalization) state. Therefore, there are no other ways except for looking for a new framework, the source said.
> 
> In a symposium held on Dec. 28, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Zhijun said, China and Japan should find crisis management methods through dialogue.
> 
> With the comment, Zhang showed willingness to establish a framework for preventing possible clashes between vessels or aircraft around the Senkaku Islands from escalating into a military conflict.
> 
> As a precondition for establishing the framework, an executive of a think tank said, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe should not take actions that heighten the tensions further.
> 
> Since the days before Dec. 26 when the Abe government was formed, Beijing has been paying close attention to Abes hard-line remarks, such as stationing public servants on the Senkaku Islands or making visits to Yasukuni Shrine, which honors not only Japanese war dead, but also Class-A war criminals.
> 
> It is the same as a game of go. If Japan escalates the conflict, China will be prepared to respond to the move, the executive said.
> 
> Gao Hong, deputy director of the CASSs Institute of Japanese Studies, said, It is necessary for Japan-China relations to return to the original point of the two countries seeking long-term profits in their relationship.



The warmongers need to calm the hell down before all hell breaks loose.


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## hoangsa

Because of her very wrong moves, Chinese is surrounded gradually by both friends and un-friend of US. When the princer movement by US is done, late of 2013 maybe, something will happen ... not at SCS but ECS. Not WW3 because this time there are not 2 sides ( like WW2 ) but 1 nation vs the rest of the world


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## Ayush

i sincerely hope that this does not turn into a world war.
at the first place,i hope that is no such war.


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## KRAIT

I don't think they will go to any military conflict. Swords may get drawn but both nations know the fallout of this. China is on right track economy and technology wise, they won't like to disrupt it as it may affect their catching up with US. Japan's economy is not that great right now. Conflict wil make things worse for them.


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## neehar

well there's alrdy conflict..but i dont see any war in the near future..also this issue is going to be prolonged for a long time.if at all theres a war..its going to be a world war..and no nation can afford it..


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## Kolaps

That because China is seeking for peaceful cooperation thru economy and development. Unlike US who seek for military support to start another war. If China do what US do, Vietnam will be surrounded too, so does US and Europe.

US play a military game in East Asia, but China doesn't do the same thing in Latin America against US. Nor Africa and Middle East against Europe.

It's different between peaceful country vs military country, who spend 50% of world total military spending.


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## Progressive Conservative

I seriously doubt that this spat over the islands will escalate. Neither country wants war at this time.


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## ILLUMINATO

USA has all ready indicated those islands are covered by the treaty of peace.China doesn't have balls to take on might of USA and Japan both at a time in conventional war. 
If China gets somehow drawn into that war then it would disrupt her economy to an extent that it would take 5-10 years to recover.
SO NO WAR ONLY WARNING!!


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## Cielo

ILLUMINATO said:


> USA has all ready indicated those islands are covered by the treaty of peace.China doesn't have balls to take on might of USA and Japan both at a time in conventional war.
> If China gets somehow drawn into that war then it would disrupt her economy to an extent that it would take 5-10 years to recover.
> SO NO WAR ONLY WARNING!!




Go read about the Korean War kid. Your fuzzy head will explode. It's actually the other way around, the US can bark all it wants, they know what a full scale war with the PLA means, they found it out the hard way in the Korean War. It is they that will NEVER go to war with China. Read history, not the anti-Chinese propaganda fed up your government.


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## ILLUMINATO

Cielo said:


> Go read about the Korean War kid. Your fuzzy head will explode. It's actually the other way around, the US can bark all it wants, they know what a full scale war with the PLA means, they found it out the hard way in the Korean War. It is they that will NEVER go to war with China. Read history, not the anti-Chinese propaganda fed up your government.


High IQ Chinese uncle ,if you want to go by history then don't you remember what only Japan did to your country in second Sino-Japanese war and how can you forget Nanking.

Don't draw pretexts from past .Fighting as auxiliary is differnt than fighting on it's own and on it's own land too.
You couldn't have imagined bombing of your Bejing in Korean war ???But here is a situation my dear uncle! when squadrons of F-22 would come unchallenged and go unchallenged after bombing your shining newly developed infrastructures.Now don't argue you are able to stop F-22s .

And try to refrain from getting to the levels of personal attack or it can get really spin out of control. Take your aggression somewhere else.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## applesauce

ILLUMINATO said:


> High IQ Chinese uncle ,if you want to go by history then don't you remember what only Japan did to your country in second Sino-Japanese war and how can you forget Nanking.
> 
> Don't draw pretexts from past .Fighting as auxiliary is differnt than fighting on it's own and on it's own land too.
> You couldn't have imagined bombing of your Bejing in Korean war ???But here is a situation my dear uncle! when squadrons of F-22 would come unchallenged and go unchallenged after bombing your shining newly developed infrastructures.Now don't argue you are able to stop F-22s .
> 
> And try to refrain from getting to the levels of personal attack or it can get really spin out of control. Take your aggression somewhere else.



we do read history, i distinctly remember that japan was fighting china at its weakest in centuries, and boasted that china would be overrun in 6 months, funny how nearly a decade of war and china was still around and still fiercely resisting and millions of crack Japanese troops were tied down. 

lol f-22 going to bomb Beijing lol sure they'll go unanswered cause it not like china is developing its own stealth aircraft. or yo know have nuke or anything.

oh fyi, those units were not auxiliary units in korea


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## ILLUMINATO

applesauce said:


> we do read history, i distinctly remember that japan was fighting china at its weakest in centuries, and boasted that china would be overrun in 6 months, funny how nearly a decade of war and china was still around and still fiercely resisting and millions of crack Japanese troops were tied down.
> 
> lol f-22 going to bomb Beijing lol sure they'll go unanswered cause it not like china is developing its own stealth aircraft. or yo know have nuke or anything.
> 
> oh fyi, those units were not auxiliary units in korea


I know that war dragged on for decade but it was not in your capacity to halt Japanese superior military power, you were aided ( militarily ) immensely by Germans and later USA.

Your fifth generation fighter is not going to hit production lines before 2018 and that is long time to go from now.Please see my post no. 8 I have clearly mentioned conventional war since your country adheres to the policy of no first use in case of war has to achieve nuclear dimensions.

By auxiliary I meant you were in supporting role not in lead role as stakes were not high for you since war was not being fought on your mainland.


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## jhungary

ILLUMINATO said:


> I know that war dragged on for decade but it was not in your capacity to halt Japanese superior military power, you were aided ( militarily ) immensely by Germans and later USA.
> 
> Your fifth generation fighter is not going to hit production lines before 2018 and that is long time to go from now.Please see my post no. 8 I have clearly mentioned conventional war since your country adheres to the policy of no first use in case of war has to achieve nuclear dimensions.
> 
> By auxiliary I meant you were in supporting role not in lead role as stakes were not high for you since war was not being fought on your mainland.



Funny how CHinese member always only focus on the fact that their strong army push american back to the south. If the Chinese was as good as they claim, they should have pushed the American back into the Sea of Japan and conquered the south, which is a fact that i still have not hear any Chinese member acknowledging.

Do bear in mind everyone's intention withint the UN and United States in Korea War is just to push the NOrth back, with the exception of one person, that's General Macarthur. Even the president were against going to the North in the first place. As people with a mind not just balls will see if we do push into the North, we will stretch our supply line so thin that the column are going to break down like the North Korean do just some month before. A defending army are in no way no how invading another country and fight in a different term. That's basically Military Tactics 101 we are taught in Military Academy.

Back on topic, i also don't think war are going to break out between China and US now, border conflict in low scale may happen from time to time Between China and Japan, but it will be just pissing action, not more than any aggression.

Do remember, this is not Korea anymore, where China fought on friendly ground( Chinese Troop were never south of Seoul at any time during the war. If War broke out between Japan and China, the war will happen in Japanese Soil. Unless China wanted to ge tbogged down by a thousand years war, there are no way China can win a regional wars with their peer in the region, in their land, on their term. 

Invading a foreign land is not the same as defending friendly land, not at all. People know that, that's why tension as high as it might even as of now, There are still no war, and i believe there will not be a war in the near future.


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## ahfatzia

*Three China ships in waters around disputed islands: Japan*









TOKYO: *Three Chinese government ships on Monday entered territorial waters around East China Sea islands at the centre of a dispute with Tokyo, Japan's coastguard said.
*
*One of the surveillance ships entered waters around the islands known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China at around 1:32pm (0432 GMT), while another followed about 20 minutes later*, the coastguard said.

*The third vessel entered the waters around the islands, controlled by Tokyo but claimed by Beijing, at about 2:35 pm (0535 GMT)*, it said.

*The ships were spotted by coastguard aircraft which were patrolling the region, and were later ordered by a Japanese patrol vessel to leave the area*, the coastguard said.

*In response, the third Chinese vessel reiterated Beijing's claim.*

*"The ship responded in Chinese by saying in essence that Diaoyu and related islands are an inherent part of Chinese territory," *a Japanese coastguard spokesman told AFP.

*The three ships were still inside what Japan claims as its territorial waters as of 3:50 pm (0650 GMT), *the Japanese coastguard said.

China has repeatedly sailed into waters around the disputed islands since Japan nationalised the chain in September.

Beijing sent its ships into the area as recently as December 21, after the conservative Liberal Democratic Party swept to a landslide election victory in Japan.

Newly elected Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has said he wishes to mend Tokyo's ties with Beijing.

But *analysts predict that China is unlikely to change its claim to the islands and will probably continue to send its ships into the surrounding waters to bring the world's attention to the dispute.*

Earlier in December, a state-owned Chinese plane breached Japanese airspace over the islands. Tokyo responded by scrambling fighter jets and said it was the first time Beijing had breached its airspace since 1958.

Three China ships in waters around disputed islands: Japan - Channel NewsAsia


..................


*China adds destroyers to marine surveillance: report*






_Chinese missile destroyer_


BEIJING: *China has transferred two destroyers and nine other ex-navy vessels to its maritime surveillance fleet,* reports said on Monday, as it moves to beef up its position in bitter territorial rows with Japan and other neighbours.

*Beijing renovated the ships and transferred them to surveillance operations to "alleviate the insufficiency of vessels used to protect maritime interests",* said a report on Tencent, one of China's major news portals.

China is embroiled in a maritime dispute with Japan that has seen tensions between the two Asian giants, the world's second- and third-largest economies, at times reach fever pitch.

It is also engaged in a simmering row with its southern neighbours over its claim to vast swathes of the South China Sea.

Beijing has been sending maritime patrol vessels into waters around the East China Sea islands it claims as Diaoyu, which Japan controls and calls Senkaku, since Tokyo nationalised the chain in September.

*China is *apparently *seeking to prove it can come and go in the area at will *and on Monday a pair of Beijing's ships were spotted in the waters, according to Japan's coastguard, in the latest perceived incursion.

*Two of Beijing's newly-refurbished vessels are destroyers, with one each to operate in the East and South China Seas, with the others including tugs, icebreakers and survey ships*, according to the Tencent report.

It was not clear whether it was the first time the maritime surveillance fleet has acquired destroyers, or when the transfers took place.

The report was first published in the International Herald Leader, a Chinese-language newspaper linked to Beijing's official news agency Xinhua, and the author said the operation had been given significantly more capacity.

*"The maritime surveillance team's power has been greatly strengthened and its capacity to execute missions sharply improved, providing a fundamental guarantee for completing the currently arduous task to protect maritime interests," *wrote Yu Zhirong, of the government's Research Centre for Chinese Marine Development.

Since 2000 the maritime surveillance fleet, which is tasked with "protecting China's interests and executing law enforcement missions", has also received a total of 13 new vessels, the report said.

*Daily patrols have been stepped up from six vessels before the disputes heated up to "more than 10" *Yu said, adding authorities planned to *build another 36 surveillance ships by 2015.
*
A Chinese plane overflew the islands in the East China Sea earlier this month, in what Japan said was the first time Beijing had breached its airspace since at least 1958. Tokyo scrambled fighter jets in response.

Yu added in the report: *"I believe Chinese maritime surveillance authorities will build and buy many ships and planes in the future with strong capabilities and advanced equipment."*

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1245297/1/.html


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## applesauce

jhungary said:


> Funny how CHinese member always only focus on the fact that their strong army push american back to the south. If the Chinese was as good as they claim, they should have pushed the American back into the Sea of Japan and conquered the south, which is a fact that i still have not hear any Chinese member acknowledging.
> 
> Do bear in mind everyone's intention withint the UN and United States in Korea War is just to push the NOrth back, with the exception of one person, that's General Macarthur. Even the president were against going to the North in the first place. As people with a mind not just balls will see if we do push into the North, we will stretch our supply line so thin that the column are going to break down like the North Korean do just some month before. A defending army are in no way no how invading another country and fight in a different term. That's basically Military Tactics 101 we are taught in Military Academy.
> 
> Back on topic, i also don't think war are going to break out between China and US now, border conflict in low scale may happen from time to time Between China and Japan, but it will be just pissing action, not more than any aggression.
> 
> Do remember, this is not Korea anymore, where China fought on friendly ground( Chinese Troop were never south of Seoul at any time during the war. If War broke out between Japan and China, the war will happen in Japanese Soil. Unless China wanted to ge tbogged down by a thousand years war, there are no way China can win a regional wars with their peer in the region, in their land, on their term.
> 
> Invading a foreign land is not the same as defending friendly land, not at all. People know that, that's why tension as high as it might even as of now, There are still no war, and i believe there will not be a war in the near future.



very simple, the Chinese supply lines problems and new American/UN reinforcements, along with the lack of support from the Russians means that china was unable to take over the entire south. in fact china being unable to takeover SK against the Us should have been the expected result, i mean china in the 50 vs the US? who woulda thought.

what is incredible however, is that china and once-shattered nk forces was even able to push back from the Chinese boarder and reach a stalemate at the 38th parallel against the US led UN force. heck even being able to sneak hundreds of thousands over the river initially without alarm was amazing, even if at the time there were no drones and sats to watch you.

now as you say most people were against even going north and even fewer would wanna enter china that is true, but even with your "thin" supply line, the American forces were 10 times better supplied than similar Chinese forces which add all the more amazement that we ended up settling at the 38th.

and yea chances of war currently is low to very low, both sides are refraining from sending military forces and are just bumping around with civilian agencies. 

even if war broke out though, i dont think it will be as you say, china doesnt plan on invading japan, any war stemming from the island disputes will be a naval and perhaps economic war, at any rates most people would agree that, as things are now, time is on china's side.


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## Knight of Tang

Go read your history book again and tell me where were you indians when Chinese Expeditionary Force fought bravely with japs in Burma. Tell me more about how did Germany helped us fought against japs besides providing us certain amount of weapon before the invasion and how many troops were sent by US to drove japs away from China besides the "flying tiger" led by General Chennault? How dare you say "it was not in our capacity to halt japs military power". Do you even know what was going on in Asia-Pacific district during the WWII? It was our brave soldiers who earned us a seat as the permanent member of UN SC with their blood and lives, you indians ain't got a SHXT to say anything about that!


ILLUMINATO said:


> I know that war dragged on for decade but it was not in your capacity to halt Japanese superior military power, you were aided ( militarily ) immensely by Germans and later USA.
> 
> Your fifth generation fighter is not going to hit production lines before 2018 and that is long time to go from now.Please see my post no. 8 I have clearly mentioned conventional war since your country adheres to the policy of no first use in case of war has to achieve nuclear dimensions.
> 
> By auxiliary I meant you were in supporting role not in lead role as stakes were not high for you since war was not being fought on your mainland.


----------



## Knight of Tang

Actually, it ain't funny at all. By the time of the Korean War, US had reached its peak of military power but China had just stepped out of the ruins of 8 years anti japs war and 4 years civil war. Who would expect China alone to defeat US with almost just light weapons? It was a success for China to stabilize the front at the 38th parallel and finally made US to accept this fact. 

If Macarthur did not find out Ridgway's talent in west point and Walker didn't die, US may be dragged into a more difficult situation. It is exactly what you mentioned about the stretching of supply line that caused our troop's attack could just keep about a week, and this phenomenon was caught by Ridgway to develop his viscous tactics. As far as I learn, this is the turning point of the whole battle.

More and more discussions about whether we should be involved into that war were addressed and not all of the Chinese support this action because of the large number of casualty, the danger of being attacked by nuclear weapon and more importantly the loss of chance to get back Taiwan. And that's also the most important cause of our dilemma nowadays in Diaoyu Island.


jhungary said:


> *Funny how CHinese member always only focus on the fact that their strong army push american back to the south. *If the Chinese was as good as they claim, they should have pushed the American back into the Sea of Japan and conquered the south, which is a fact that i still have not hear any Chinese member acknowledging.
> 
> Do bear in mind everyone's intention withint the UN and United States in Korea War is just to push the NOrth back, with the exception of one person, that's General Macarthur. Even the president were against going to the North in the first place. As people with a mind not just balls will see if we do push into the North, we will stretch our supply line so thin that the column are going to break down like the North Korean do just some month before. A defending army are in no way no how invading another country and fight in a different term. That's basically Military Tactics 101 we are taught in Military Academy.
> 
> Back on topic, i also don't think war are going to break out between China and US now, border conflict in low scale may happen from time to time Between China and Japan, but it will be just pissing action, not more than any aggression.
> 
> Do remember, this is not Korea anymore, where China fought on friendly ground( Chinese Troop were never south of Seoul at any time during the war. If War broke out between Japan and China, the war will happen in Japanese Soil. Unless China wanted to ge tbogged down by a thousand years war, there are no way China can win a regional wars with their peer in the region, in their land, on their term.
> 
> Invading a foreign land is not the same as defending friendly land, not at all. People know that, that's why tension as high as it might even as of now, There are still no war, and i believe there will not be a war in the near future.


----------



## jhungary

applesauce said:


> very simple, the Chinese supply lines problems and new American/UN reinforcements, along with the lack of support from the Russians means that china was unable to take over the entire south. in fact china being unable to takeover SK against the Us should have been the expected result, i mean china in the 50 vs the US? who woulda thought.
> 
> what is incredible however, is that china and once-shattered nk forces was even able to push back from the Chinese boarder and reach a stalemate at the 38th parallel against the US led UN force. heck even being able to sneak hundreds of thousands over the river initially without alarm was amazing, even if at the time there were no drones and sats to watch you.
> 
> now as you say most people were against even going north and even fewer would wanna enter china that is true, but even with your "thin" supply line, the American forces were 10 times better supplied than similar Chinese forces which add all the more amazement that we ended up settling at the 38th.
> 
> and yea chances of war currently is low to very low, both sides are refraining from sending military forces and are just bumping around with civilian agencies.
> 
> even if war broke out though, i dont think it will be as you say, china doesnt plan on invading japan, any war stemming from the island disputes will be a naval and perhaps economic war, at any rates most people would agree that, as things are now, time is on china's side.



In korea war, the US/UN force does not expect a China intervention and the sole purpose of US/UN attack force intention are to push the North back to the North and hence achieve a status quo. 

The problem is one man, abeit it is the Militarily Gifted Macauthur. The problem is, he set his standard too high on the get go. Anyone with a mind will know his plan is destined to fail (This is what we taught in the Military Academy)

If you study the troop strength of UN/US side, it is estimated on the date that the Chinese crossing the border, the troop strength is no more than 250,000 and only about 100,000 of those are in the front line to the north. but on that day alone, China rush 300,000 soldier across the border. Which is already roughtly the size of the whole UN Forces Korea. It tip the balance heavily on the Chinese side, when you are facing a logistical problem and a renewed force of 300,000. There are nothing to do but retreat.

The way the Korea war fought is a basic seige warfare and it is not come to a surprise It draw in the middle and right back where you started it. Also, do remember the time of Korean war is the time US Demobbing its whole military coming down from WW2. And majority of the force are stationed in Europe to counter the Russian Threat. The US is literally fighting a limited war in Korea.

There are one interesting point you mention Russia as a factor China cannot go all the way. That is true. If Russian support the Communist KPA/PVA from the start, it will be quite easy for the combine communist force to go over the south. Will that change anything tho? The answer is no. As Russia also being tied down in Europe, the same reason Why America do not use full strength as they done it in WW2. If Russia send any sort of Help to North Korea, they would have somehow left the East Europe open, and to Russia, they border East Eruope rather than Korea. So in the end, they also have to savce their own arse first, then come to help their communist brother. 

China, on the other hand, have no such problem, however, because of the Korean war, it gave Taiwan a breather and literally, the Korean War is what saved Taiwan.

And yes, America is better equip than the Chinese counter part. But there are just too many pof them. And they are running out of ammo. Running out of supply is one very big characteric during the whole Korean war. You can fight for a few week without food, you can fight a few day without water supply. But you will not last 10 second if you do not have ammunition.....

GOing back to topic.

Even the chance of Border conflict is small as the island is a lot closer to Japan than to any Major Chinese city (I think i worked out from google map once the closest Chinese city is about 190Mile away, where the cloest Japanese City is only some 100 mile away. It would be an away war if Chinese decided to fight it.

And i do not agree time is on Chinese side as you have to assume Japan do nothing but sit on their ***** and China grow strong everyday. The truth is this is not the actual case. In Island warfare. Time is everything. If you allow time for your opponent to increase defense on an island, time to position their hardware in the island, all this will stack against the invading force. 

We all know Japan have the means to fortify the island. But they do not have time to do so yet. BY the time China grow strong, they would have been able to heavily fortify the island. And from all the experience it see, in the end, if you waited long enough, the war will just become a meat grinder as you can only deveople technology like aircraft and missile. But to fight an island war. You need to most premetitve thing in modern battlefield at all, That's troop on the ground. No matter how technological superior you get, when you go and do the dirty work on the ground, you negate all the technology different. I have this kind of experience first hand. Whether you believe or not.



Knight of Tang said:


> Actually, it ain't funny at all. By the time of the Korean War, US had reached its peak of military power but China had just stepped out of the ruins of 8 years anti japs war and 4 years civil war. Who would expect China alone to defeat US with almost just light weapons? It was a success for China to stabilize the front at the 38th parallel and finally made US to accept this fact.
> 
> If Macarthur did not find out Ridgway's talent in west point and Walker didn't die, US may be dragged into a more difficult situation. It is exactly what you mentioned about the stretching of supply line that caused our troop's attack could just keep about a week, and this phenomenon was caught by Ridgway to develop his viscous tactics. As far as I learn, this is the turning point of the whole battle.
> 
> More and more discussions about whether we should be involved into that war were addressed and not all of the Chinese support this action because of the large number of casualty, the danger of being attacked by nuclear weapon and more importantly the loss of chance to get back Taiwan. And that's also the most important cause of our dilemma nowadays in Diaoyu Island.



Actually, US was at the bottom since coming out of WW2, we even have difficulty muster 1 division to fight the delay action. Again as i said, we are in demobbing from WW2, and almost all of our remaining military power is dedicated to Europe instead of the Asian Front. We are in no way to fight a war in the whole year of 1950. 

Chinese did not defeat the American in the Northern Forntline by the means of light weapon, they crushed the UN spearhead by sheer number. 100,000 may be acceptable for soldier to fight on, 200,000 is the maximum limit, but Chinese send 300,000 in one day. That's in case you don't know, is a lot of people.

The US actually had realise the Supply problem even before we set foot on the North. That why we only send a portion of the troop to the north and thus reducing the problem. However, with Chinese main force trying to stroll south, you are talking about 1 millions PVA + KPA troop. That's a very large army to support and just after 1 year or so, acutally both side already settled the fact that No UN troop can cross the 38th to the North and stay, and no Chinese/KPA troop can cross the 38th South and stayed. Hence for what i concern, the last 2 years of war is just waste of time and human life.


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## anon45

Japan to use unmanned US drones to monitor Senkaku Islands - The Japan Daily Press



> The Japanese Defense Ministry stated on Monday that it was planning to strengthen its security over the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands by flying American-build unmanned drones over the territory in the East China Sea. The aircraft, known as Global Hawk UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles), are targeted to be in use by the 2015 fiscal year, government officials said.
> 
> Tensions with China remain high after Japan formally purchased the uninhabited islands already under its control in mid-September. While violent protesting and the calls for boycotting Japanese goods in China have since died down, the Beijing government has been seen as taking steps to escalate its claims over the territory, even threatening the use of military force. The country launched its first aircraft carrier a few months ago, stating that it would serve to protect China&#8217;s sovereignty, security, and development interest in its surrounding waters.
> 
> In mid-December China filed a claim with the United Nations, arguing that its basis for rightful ownership of the islands is based on geological placement. Amid these moves, Chinese patrol ships have been seen in the area around the islands almost non-stop since September, repeatedly entering Japan&#8217;s territorial waters and stating they are within their rights. An official Beijing aircraft also violated Japanese airspace for the first time in over 50 years last month by flying over the Senkaku Islands. The Japanese Defense Ministry responded by deploying several fighter jets, however, no further action was needed.


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## Vitchilo

2015... what a joke. What about NOW? In 2015, this will probably have been solved... probably by force.


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## anon45

Vitchilo said:


> 2015... what a joke. What about NOW? In 2015, this will probably have been solved... probably by force.



Nah, China would be smacked down if it tried.


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## ahfatzia

*Japan scrambles jets to head off China plane*


TOKYO: *Japan scrambled fighter jets on Saturday to head off a Chinese state-owned plane that flew near islands at the centre of a dispute between Tokyo and Beijing,* a Japanese Defence Ministry spokesman said.

*Japanese jets were mobilised after a Chinese maritime aircraft ventured some 120 kilometres north of the Senkaku islands, which China calls the Diaoyus, at around 12:00 pm (0300 GMT),* the spokesman said.

*The Chinese Y-12 twin-turboprop later left the zone without entering Japanese airspace over the islands,* he added.

_full story: _ Japan scrambles jets to head off China plane - Channel NewsAsia


Testing, testing , testing. Next time it won't be just maritime aircraft.


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## Soryu

well, just wait and see...


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## ahfatzia

*China ships near disputed East China Sea islands*


TOKYO: Four Chinese government ships entered territorial waters around Japan-controlled islands at the centre of a dispute on Monday.

The marine surveillance ships were seen moving within 12 nautical miles of the islands, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, just before midday, Japan's coastguard said in a statement.

They were still inside the zone at 7 pm local time (1000 GMT), with Japanese patrol boat crews telling the Chinese ships to leave the waters, a coastguard official said.

Japan's foreign ministry lodged a protest with the Chinese embassy in Tokyo over the incident by telephone, a ministry official said.

In Beijing, China's State Oceanic Administration said the four ships "continued to patrol territorial waters off China's Diaoyu Islands", according to the state-run Xinhua news agency.

It was the first time since December 31 -- and the 21st time since Japan nationalised the islands in September -- that any state-owned Chinese ship has been seen in the archipelago's waters, which lie in the East China Sea.

A state-owned Chinese plane flew through airspace over the islands early last month. Tokyo responded by scrambling fighter jets and said it was the first time Beijing had breached its airspace since at least 1958.

On Saturday, another Chinese state-owned plane approached the islands without entering the airspace, prompting another Japanese fighter jet dispatch.

China ships near disputed East China Sea islands - Channel NewsAsia


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## ahfatzia

Just as I expected.......the 'new normal' indeed,


*Japan scrambles jets against China military planes*


TOKYO: Japan scrambled fighter jets on Thursday to head off a number of Chinese military planes near islands at the centre of a territorial dispute, Japanese media said.

The Chinese planes were spotted on Japanese military radar north of the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands, known as Diaoyu in China, the Fuji TV network reported, quoting Japanese government officials.

They did not violate territorial airspace over the islands but flew inside Japan's so-called air defence identification zone, the report said.

The Japanese defence ministry press office did not confirm the report.

The Chinese planes were gone when F-15 jet fighters from an airbase on Japan's main Okinawan island reached the area, the report said, adding the Chinese flights continued until about 5:00 pm (0800 GMT).

Chinese government ships and planes have been seen off the disputed islands numerous times since Japan nationalised them in September, sometimes within the 12 nautical-mile territorial zone.

Japan dispatched fighter jets last month after a Chinese state-owned plane breached airspace over the islands.

Japan scrambles jets against China military planes - Channel NewsAsia


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## Knight of Tang

Then try us!


anon45 said:


> Nah, China would be smacked down if it tried.


----------



## Soryu

Knight of Tang said:


> Then try us!



He said "If it tried", can you understand it!?


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## anon45

Knight of Tang said:


> Then try us!



I believe the country in your heart is in the position of agressor here, and so it would have to be you who tried us.

so go ahead... try us

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## Knight of Tang

I think I made my point very clear with you in previous discussion, it is NOT China who provoked this intensive situation in a very sensitive time spot--nationalize this disputable island on the VJ day! And, if you're referring to the global order after WWII built by yourself, Diaoyu Island definitely belongs to China (no matter PRC or ROC) and it is written in the terms of Potsdam Declaration and Cairo Declaration. I don't see anything concrete from you to back your point that China is the aggressor here. 
btw, I should say that what you believe has nothing to do with what's in my heart, so please save it.


anon45 said:


> I believe the country in your heart is in the position of agressor here, and so it would have to be you who tried us.
> 
> so go ahead... try us

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## anon45

Knight of Tang said:


> I think I made my point very clear with you in previous discussion, it is NOT China who provoked this intensive situation in a very sensitive time spot--nationalize this disputable island on the VJ day! And, if you're referring to the global order after WWII built by yourself, Diaoyu Island definitely belongs to China (no matter PRC or ROC) and it is written in the terms of Potsdam Declaration and Cairo Declaration. I don't see anything concrete from you to back your point that China is the aggressor here.
> btw, I should say that what you believe has nothing to do with what's in my heart, so please save it.



I will not bother to get into a circular argument with you, I will only say Japan currently holds the islands and is free to exercise military force in the area. China is currently unable/unwilling to, and so it is China that has to move first or nothing will happen. So again, try us

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## Knight of Tang

Better than you do, pay more attention to your own broken language and don't comment on anything you are not able to understand.


Soryu said:


> He said "If it tried", can you understand it!?


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## Knight of Tang

What a gangster logic here, the point you have nothing to support turns out to be a circular argument here huh? YOU HAVEN'T EVEN ARGUED THAT YET!
So, I see your poor logic and American style of arrogance enough, won't bother replying to your junk words anymore, just a waste of my time! Time will tell!


anon45 said:


> I will not bother to get into a circular argument with you, I will only say Japan currently holds the islands and is free to exercise military force in the area. China is currently unable/unwilling to, and so it is China that has to move first or nothing will happen. So again, try us


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## Protocol man

anon45 said:


> I believe the country in your heart is in the position of agressor here, and so it would have to be you who tried us.
> 
> so go ahead... try us



We tried you in the Korean War and kicked your a$$.

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## anon45

Knight of Tang said:


> What a gangster logic here, the point you have nothing to support turns out to be a circular argument here huh? YOU HAVEN'T EVEN ARGUED THAT YET!
> So, I see your poor logic and American style of arrogance enough, won't bother replying to your junk words anymore, just a waste of my time! Time will tell!



I will not bother to get into a circular argument with you, I will only say Japan currently holds the islands and is free to exercise military force in the area. China is currently unable/unwilling to, and so it is China that has to move first or nothing will happen. So again, try us 

you can find any number of number of arguments between me, you, other chinese posters, other posters of various flags, all has been said, I will not bring that here now, what I have written above are the objective facts with no discussion of history, you said we should try you, I have told you it doesn't work like that.

If you aren't coming perhaps you would like some coffee  ?



Protocol man said:


> We tried you in the Korean War and kicked your a$$.




casualty counts and a free south korea say otherwise. Don't bother going off-topic again.

Well back on topic...

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201301110049




> Japan Coast Guard to bolster patrols around Senkaku Islands
> 
> The Japan Coast Guard is planning to create a fleet of 12 cutters to patrol the waters around the Senkaku Islands in response to the constant presence there of ships affiliated with the Chinese government.
> 
> A special team of about 400 coast guard officers will be assigned to the Senkaku patrols. Because the necessary number of officers cannot be secured through new enlistment alone, the coast guard is considering a plan to extend the retirement age for officers.
> 
> To create the fleet of 12 cutters, sources said the government will include a request in the supplementary budget to be submitted for the current fiscal year seeking to construct six cutters in the 1,000-ton class. Plans call for launching those cutters by fiscal 2015.
> 
> In line with the launching of the 6,500-ton Akitsushima cutter this autumn, there were also plans to decommission two 3,000-ton cutters. Instead, those two cutters will be retrofitted to increase their maximum speed so they are capable of responding to intrusions into Japanese territorial waters by ships belonging to the Chinese government, which also has territorial claims over the islands it refers to as the Diaoyu Islands. Although cutters are normally in service for about 25 years, the overhaul will allow the coast guard to use those old cutters for an additional 15 years.
> 
> The plan to construct four 1,000-ton class cutters using funds in this fiscal year's reserve fund will allow those cutters to join the Senkaku fleet from fiscal 2014.
> 
> The coast guard now has about 12,000 officers, of which about 2,500 are 55 or older. That means a large number of officers will continue to retire every year.
> 
> The 1,000-ton cutters that will play the key role in patrolling the Senkaku waters require crews of about 30 officers. However, it will be difficult to greatly increase the number of recruits to the Japan Coast Guard School, located in Kyoto Prefecture. To come up with the necessary manpower, a plan is being considered to extend the retirement age from the current 60. Older officers would be assigned to rear line support positions, which would free up younger officers to be assigned to the 11th Regional Coast Guard Headquarters, which has jurisdiction over the Senkakus.
> 
> Since the central government purchased three of the Senkaku Islands last September, Chinese government-affiliated ships have entered Japanese territorial waters 21 times. About five ships from China are believed to be constantly patrolling the waters surrounding the Senkakus.
> 
> The 11th Regional Coast Guard Headquarters only has seven cutters of at least 1,000 tons, so cutters from other regional coast guard headquarters have been sent to the 11th Region. However, that has hindered normal operations in other areas, including the cancellation of this year's fleet review ceremony.

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## Soryu

Knight of Tang said:


> Better than you do, pay more attention to your own broken language and don't comment on anything you are not able to understand.





Knight of Tang said:


> What a gangster logic here, the point you have nothing to support turns out to be a circular argument here huh? YOU HAVEN'T EVEN ARGUED THAT YET!
> So, I see your poor logic and American style of arrogance enough, won't bother replying to your junk words anymore, just a waste of my time! Time will tell!


well, Is that so!? So, why were you leave your country and staying American arrogance!? ( like very many others chinese )


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## Hayreddin

ä¸*å½ææºé£èµ´éé±¼å² - ä¼é·å³æ³¨ä¸é¢ - ä¼é·è§é¢

China holds legitimate right on Diaoyu Islands .
USA is just making the situation more complicated for China .


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## Vitchilo

Yeah this will end well...

Chinese Military On "High Alert" After It Scrambles Fighter Jets To "Counter" Japanese Jets | Zero Hedge


> The one thing that most seem to forget in the epic 30 year old story (which has a very sad ending) that is the Japanese floundering economy, is that while the new Abe government may and will likely try everything to crush the Yen (which is already nearing the 90 USDJPY target, however briefly, before it resumes its grind lower once it dawns on investors what it will mean for the Japanese Treasury when bond yields soar), the main reason it has posted three massive monthly trade deficits in a row has nothing to do with its currency, and everything to do with what is now a permanent boycott of Japanese exports by China.
> 
> The paradox is that Abe, a well-known nationalist, may well crush the Yen but he will only aggravate Chinese tensions (thus hurting Japanese exports, GDP, and the current account even more) which recently approached boiling point on several occasions over the past few months, most notably in the spat over who owns the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, and soon over other symbols of nationalist pride. And with the escalations coming faster and more frequent with each passing day, there is little room for optimism that despite all Japan is doing that its economy stands any hope of recovery in 2013 (or later).
> 
> In fact, the latest escalation in the seemingly neverending saga over a strategically located rock in the East China Sea, came hours ago, when Xinhua reported that Beijing has scrambled two J-10 jets to counter "Japanese military aircraft disrupting the routine patrols of Chinese administrative aircraft."



Not good.


----------



## Audio

Posted on Chinese government ran "newspaper" on January 10th. Second paragraph is a true gem.



> China may fall into military conflict with Japan eventually. We hope we can continue our peaceful development, but our risk management strategies are more complex due to various pressures.
> 
> There is little room for concessions. Therefore, let us abandon all hesitation and seriously prepare for mutual warnings and confrontation with Japan over the Diaoyu Islands. If the situation goes awry, we must make Japan pay more of a price than China.



Japan tracer bullets will bring war closer - Globaltimes.cn


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## wakapdf

Why is Japan in the mood to recieve severe spanking? Cause it will if China goes all out. They thought Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bad, they have no idea of what they are in for if they mess with China


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## PITA

So no Pakistani can say anything? What are you trying to say? Because his country has problems, he can't voice his opinion? We have problems in this country too. Does that make us unfit to answer?

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## Vitchilo

Well not fit for warmongering... anyone warmongering against anyone is a lunatic... it's because of little Einchmanns like him that millions have died in ww1, ww2 and who knows how many more wars since then.

Humanity need to cut the warmongering crap.


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## Juice

wakapdf said:


> Why is Japan in the mood to recieve severe spanking? Cause it will if China goes all out. They thought Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bad, they have no idea of what they are in for if they mess with China


Fairly certain there are guys alive in Japan today that were stationed in China...they well know what to expect.


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## Strigon

Vitchilo said:


> Well not fit for warmongering... anyone warmongering against anyone is a lunatic... it's because of little Einchmanns like him that millions have died in ww1, ww2 and who knows how many more wars since then.
> 
> Humanity need to cut the warmongering crap.



I think you haven't seen a lot of threads going on recently about the LoC disputes b/w India and Pakistan. A TONN of warmongers there, please feel free to guide some silly Indians there itching for a war, ooh great one!


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## terranMarine

It won't be crap if some country is trying to steal your sovereignty. Just look at the Middle East and the list of US operations and you will see wars will always be fought for the sake of some hidden agenda.

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## PITA

Vitchilo said:


> Well not fit for warmongering... anyone warmongering against anyone is a lunatic... it's because of little Einchmanns like him that millions have died in ww1, ww2 and who knows how many more wars since then.
> 
> Humanity need to cut the warmongering crap.



Unfortunately, that's part of the game. I think you're referring to Adolf Eichmann, in the end, he got what he deserved.

I agree though that warmongers and lunatics go hand in hand.


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## newdelhinsa

wakapdf said:


> Why is Japan in the mood to recieve severe spanking? Cause it will if China goes all out. They thought Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bad, they have no idea of what they are in for if they mess with China



I hope Japanese are reading these comments by a Pakistani national who at times seek loan from Japan. Good bum service BTW, keep it up.


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## shuttler

newdelhinsa said:


> I hope Japanese are reading these comments by a Pakistani national who at times seek loan from Japan. Good bum service BTW, keep it up.



granting loans is a commercial decision as if the japanese are not earning interest from any loans.

it is just sad for indians to comment on this!

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## newdelhinsa

shuttler said:


> granting loans is a commercial decision as if the japanese are not earning interest from any loans.
> 
> it is just sad for indians to comment on this!



And you have contradicted yourself. Convenient morality ?

Like Its sad for Pakistanis to comment on it, isn't it ? BTW do not quote me if you haven't understood the assertion, send someone with better skills. I am waiting.


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## Knight of Tang

I am here to pursue my Ph.D in Computer Science and US has the best graduate education resources in this field, it's not a shame to learn from better ones to improve yourself. Besides, where I am now has nothing to do with where I am gonna be, is that a funny thing to you viet guys? 


Soryu said:


> well, Is that so!? So, why were you leave your country and staying American arrogance!? ( like very many others chinese )

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## Protocol man

newdelhinsa said:


> And you have contradicted yourself. Convenient morality ?
> 
> Like Its sad for Pakistanis to comment on it, isn't it ? BTW do not quote me if you haven't understood the assertion, send someone with better skills. I am waiting.



It's funny you blaming Pakistan for receiving aid when the vast majority of the Indian economy is run by British aid 
Even the Brits admit this.

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## Vitchilo

China ready for worst-case Diaoyu scenario - Globaltimes.cn


> China ready for worst-case Diaoyu scenario
> 
> China and Japan may stand at a turning point that leads to confrontation. The resentment toward each other has come to the highest level since World War II. The Sino-Japanese relationship is looking dim.
> 
> Chinese society is tired of simple verbal protests toward Japan. The Chinese people hope the country will carry out actions against Japan's provocations. China's sending fighter jets to the islands reflects Chinese public opinion.
> 
> A military clash is more likely. We shouldn't have the illusion that Japan will be deterred by our firm stance. We need to prepare for the worst.



Over a bunch of rocks... will someone nuke these rocks into oblivion before this gets out of control?


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## Protocol man

I can almost feel China-Japan coming to blows within the next few weeks or months. We are not backing down and Abe is not backing down. Something has to give.

This is more than just about rocks. It's the honour and pride of our country, our people and our civilization at stake.
Japan caused alot of death and destruction during WW2 to China.
They will pay for that one day.
Mark my words.


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## newdelhinsa

Protocol man said:


> It's funny you blaming Pakistan for receiving aid when the vast majority of the Indian economy is run by British aid
> Even the Brits admit this.



When I am blaming Pakistan, I just stated the fact. You need to improve your debating skills. Don't rant for sake of ranting. 

Rest of your ha ha he he ho ho is worth be hoooooshed ! away.


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## wakapdf

newdelhinsa said:


> I hope Japanese are reading these comments by a Pakistani national who at times seek loan from Japan. Good bum service BTW, keep it up.



Yeah yeah, like Indians arent sucking up to their Japanese bretheren. We are not the ones that share $100 Bn worth of trade with China. Hypocrisy at its best!

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## shuttler

newdelhinsa said:


> And you have contradicted yourself. Convenient morality ?
> 
> Like Its sad for Pakistanis to comment on it, isn't it ? BTW do not quote me if you haven't understood the assertion, send someone with better skills. I am waiting.



No I am not. 

japanese - has a war crime past which started ww2
China was not a party who started ww2

Pakistan jointly developed weapons with us
Have the japanese developed any weapons with india?

Pakistan is closer to China than india to japan

Do you see the difference? I hope this will improve your intelligence


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## newdelhinsa

wakapdf said:


> Yeah yeah, like Indians arent sucking up to their Japanese bretheren. We are not the ones that share $100 Bn worth of trade with China. Hypocrisy at its best!



Hey Mr. waka, can you do research on how much Japanese are investing in Pakistan before doing Chinese bum licking and unnecessarily poking your Pakistani nose in matter between China and Japan, especially when you know you will be no one in their conflict. 

Read my post again I was telling about about investment and aid Japanese have offered to Pakistan as a major aid provider and friend of Pakistan. When you compare some thing compare apples with apple not apple and oranges, I mean talk about aid not trade with right context of the discussion. 

Again I hope Japanese are reading Pakistani comments how thankless people here can be.


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## wakapdf

newdelhinsa said:


> Hey Mr. waka, can you do research on how much Japanese are investing in Pakistan before doing Chinese bum licking and unnecessarily poking your Pakistani nose in matter between China and Japan, especially when you know you will be no one in their conflict.
> 
> Read my post again I was telling about about investment and aid Japanese have offered to Pakistan as a major aid provider and friend of Pakistan. When you compare some thing compare apples with apple not apple and oranges, I mean talk about aid not trade with right context of the discussion.
> 
> Again I hope Japanese are reading Pakistani comments how thankless people here can be.



As usual, you continued on with your usual rant without understanding what i wrote and in which context. I'll say it again, Chinese are like our brothers and they have helped us in our bad times more than any other nation. We will gladly stick our head out for them... As per sticking your nose is concerned, how does India come into play when comparing China and Japan? Like i said, hypocrisy at its best!!


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## Knight of Tang

Waiting for what? Spanking? Would you mind spending few seconds reading 'bout the topic of this thread then going on to pretend to be a master of debating? 
Common indian way of behaving...


newdelhinsa said:


> And you have contradicted yourself. Convenient morality ?
> 
> Like Its sad for Pakistanis to comment on it, isn't it ? BTW do not quote me if you haven't understood the assertion, send someone with better skills. I am waiting.

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## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Well they are just making more problems typical china making things complicated



No its Philippines and Vietnam that makes the situation worse. Blaming China ruins peace in the region. Stop your barking and start making peace.



Zero_wing said:


> Because your claims are not realistic and not the norm of the plant and we been doing military maneuvers with the states since world war 2 so its natural next to air while your going this to show off and plant fear to your neighbors well its just making things bad for your country's case.



Philippines has no rights then. China has historic rights, including Taiwan.

China must defend their airspace.



Viet said:


> I wonder who is the perceived enemy?



Vietnam and Philippines.



Viet said:


> This thread is boring. Next one pls! BTW Christmas is coming soon



Why are you here then?


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## Fsjal

S10 said:


> Since when do we need permission from your irrelevant country on when we can hold training exercises in our own airspace?



Philippines has no air defense. They hide in shadows when China arrives


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## Zarvan

Tokyo: China scrambled two J-10 fighter jets to the East China Sea on Thursday to monitor a pair of Air Self-Defense Force F-15s that were shadowing one of Beijing&#8217;s patrol aircraft, the Chinese Defense Ministry reported on its website. 

In a statement posted online by the ministry said that the Chinese aircraft was conducting routine patrol duties near oil and gas fields east of the coastal city of Wenzhou. 



According to the Japan Times, the ASDF&#8217;s F-15 fighters &#8216;trailed and interfered with&#8217; the Chinese planes, which were conducting regular military patrol exercises, the ministry said, arguing Thursday&#8217;s incident underscored the alleged increased surveillance activities by the Self-Defense Forces against China. 

The ministry said that the Chinese J-10s also monitored a Japanese reconnaissance plane in the same airspace. 

The ministry stressed that China will &#8216;resolutely defend the safety of its territorial air space and the rightful privileges under international law&#8217;, the report said. 

The incident marks a further escalation in the dispute that erupted between the two countries in mid-September over the Senkaku Islands. 

According to the report, Hong Lei, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, meanwhile used a press briefing in Beijing the same day to pin the blame for the &#8216;current difficulty&#8217; between the two sides squarely on Japan. 

(ANI) 
China sends fighter jets to East China Sea to monitor Japan`s F-15s
*J-10 vs F-15 Nice really very nice*


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## Luffy 500

Time to show the power of J10s.

But , things will not escalate, since Japanese R smart enough to not piss of china. They R already struggling desperately after china-japan trade disruption.

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## Protocol man

Luffy 500 said:


> Time to show the power of J10s.
> 
> But , things will not escalate, since Japanese R smart enough to not piss of china. They R already struggling desperately after china-japan trade disruption.



Japan has a dead economy. It's been in a vegetative state since the early 1990s.
They are jealous China is surpassing them in pretty much every major economic metric.


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## Luffy 500

Protocol man said:


> Japan has a dead economy. It's been in a vegetative state since the early 1990s.
> They are jealous China is surpassing them in pretty much every major economic metric.



If i am not wrong, china controls of world's rare earth supply ,needed for electronics, steel & metallurgy industry. This alone is enough to deter Japan & destroy its economy.


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## Yeti

Luffy 500 said:


> If i am not wrong, china controls of world's rare earth supply ,needed for electronics, steel & metallurgy industry. This alone is enough to deter Japan & destroy its economy.





Think again 


BBC News - Japan finds rare earths in Pacific seabed

JAPAN has found a large deposit of rare earth minerals in its Pacific seabed, enough to supply its hi-tech industries for more than 200 years, a scientist says. 

Around 6.8 million tonnes of the valuable minerals, used in electric cars, iPods and lasers, are sitting under the seabed near a far eastern Japanese island, Tokyo University professor Yasuhiro Kato told AFP on Friday.

He said mud samples taken from an area near Minamitorishima island, some 2000 kilometres southeast of Tokyo, indicated deposits amounted to around 220 times the average annual amount used by industry in Japan.

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## INDIAISM

Luffy 500 said:


> If i am not wrong, china controls of world's rare earth supply ,needed for electronics, steel & metallurgy industry. This alone is enough to deter Japan & destroy its economy.



Japan finds massive rare earth deposits on ocean floor | NEWSWARPED.COM

Their is a reason why even Americans say that never underestimate the Japaneese or Germans...

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## UKBengali

It is only a matter of time before Japan submits to China.

It cannot go it alone and the alliance with be US will be untenable over the next 15-20 years.


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## Type 052D

UKBengali said:


> It is only a matter of time before Japan submits to China.
> 
> It cannot go it alone and the alliance with be US will be untenable over the next 15-20 years.



In 20 years time, possibly. But currently the PLAN does not the technological expertise of the JMSDF and the Japanese specialize in Anti-submarine warfare.

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## SwatCat

Zarvan said:


> Tokyo: China scrambled two J-10 fighter jets to the East China Sea on Thursday to monitor a pair of Air Self-Defense Force F-15s that were shadowing one of Beijings patrol aircraft, the Chinese Defense Ministry reported on its website.
> 
> In a statement posted online by the ministry said that the Chinese aircraft was conducting routine patrol duties near oil and gas fields east of the coastal city of Wenzhou.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Japan Times, the ASDFs F-15 fighters trailed and interfered with the Chinese planes, which were conducting regular military patrol exercises, the ministry said, arguing Thursdays incident underscored the alleged increased surveillance activities by the Self-Defense Forces against China.
> 
> The ministry said that the Chinese J-10s also monitored a Japanese reconnaissance plane in the same airspace.
> 
> *The ministry stressed that China will resolutely defend the safety of its territorial air space and the rightful privileges under international law, the report said.*
> 
> The incident marks a further escalation in the dispute that erupted between the two countries in mid-September over the Senkaku Islands.
> 
> According to the report, Hong Lei, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, meanwhile used a press briefing in Beijing the same day to pin the blame for the current difficulty between the two sides squarely on Japan.
> 
> (ANI)
> China sends fighter jets to East China Sea to monitor Japan`s F-15s
> *J-10 vs F-15 Nice really very nice*



Why chinese only say International laws are violated when they them selves are violators of International law in SCS.

Double standards...!!!!!



Yeti said:


> Think again
> 
> 
> BBC News - Japan finds rare earths in Pacific seabed
> 
> JAPAN has found a large deposit of rare earth minerals in its Pacific seabed, enough to supply its hi-tech industries for more than 200 years, a scientist says.
> 
> Around 6.8 million tonnes of the valuable minerals, used in electric cars, iPods and lasers, are sitting under the seabed near a far eastern Japanese island, Tokyo University professor Yasuhiro Kato told AFP on Friday.
> 
> He said mud samples taken from an area near Minamitorishima island, some 2000 kilometres southeast of Tokyo, indicated deposits amounted to around 220 times the average annual amount used by industry in Japan.



So the bullying done by China by not supplying the rare earth materials to Japan ends here .

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## Type 052D

@ SwatCat what has this topic go to do with India? Please focus on the military aspect of this incident rather than going all political.



SwatCat said:


> Why chinese only say International laws are violated when they them selves are violators of International law in SCS.
> 
> Double standards...!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> So the bullying done by China by not supplying the rare earth materials to Japan ends here .



China still supplies 90% exports of Rare earth material and they are often of high grade stranded.



INDIAISM said:


> Japan finds massive rare earth deposits on ocean floor | NEWSWARPED.COM
> 
> Their is a reason why even Americans say that never underestimate the Japanese or Germans...



Future wars will only depend on the level of technology you have but also an Nation's industrial might. For example, China controls 90-80% of the World's rare earth exports which is critical for electronic devices, esp silicon based machinery. Suppose Japan got too Libby and threatens PRC with claims to China's territorial sovereignty, then we can seemly place an embargo on Rare earth exports to japanese markets which will devestate their already stuggling consumer-electronic industry. Before the 50s, the USAF had to place thousands off bombers just to.destroy an valuable target like railwys or deports. Now the USN and USAF could just destroy an nations entire infrastructure with an couple of Ageis destroyers and an B-52 armed with tomahawk CM/GB-JADAMS/ARAAMs etc. This is due credit to America's established military industrial complex which has thousands of R&D centers, tens of thousands employees, an sizable infrastructure and assistance from the civilian sectors in certain project. China lacks this.


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## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> Philippines has no air defense. They hide in shadows when China arrives



Wow really then why not use the proper International forums why the threats? historical title is different than legal title moron! please you chinese can't even understand that! and please your own flag for proper identification man you chinese say the idiotic things and cheap made excuses.


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## Type 052D

Fsjal said:


> Philippines has no air defense. They hide in shadows when China arrives



China has no offensive ambitions for the Phillipines, I'm sure the disputes will end in an decade or so...

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## feilong

INDIAISM said:


> Japan finds massive rare earth deposits on ocean floor | NEWSWARPED.COM
> 
> Their is a reason why even Americans say that never underestimate the Japaneese or Germans...



Good for them it is international water so lots of country will fight for it, besides oceanbed is a dangerous for the earth let the jap dig. Anything go ******* wrong, the earth get damage, every country will cook them for lunch. Indian too please stop talk too much and act like genius people please.


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## Fsjal

Type 052D said:


> China has no offensive ambitions for the Phillipines, I'm sure the disputes will end in an decade or so...



To me, China is a peaceful but powerful neighbor. I hope the dispute will end.

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## scobydoo

*Japan holds manoeuvres near disputed islands*







The Japanese Self-defense Force (SDF) on Sunday began maneuvers in Narashino, Chiba province involving 20 airplanes and 33 armored vehicles. The exercise enacts a scenario in which a Japanese island is being occupied by an enemy and the airborne force tries to re-seize the island with the support of land and naval forces. Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said Japanese security has worsened as neighboring countries are modernizing their armies and North Korea conducted two controversial satellite launches. According to Onodera, the SDF must protect national territory and ensure the safety of the Japanese people.

Japan holds manoeuvres near disputed islands | News - VOV5

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## ahfatzia

*Japan boosts defence of disputed islands*







_Japan helicopters fly over troops on a drill, Jan 13_


TOKYO: Japan will deploy two more patrol ships to boost its defence of islands at the centre of a territorial row with China and has conducted its first drill simulating the recapture of an isle seized by enemy forces.

The vessels will be stationed at the regional coast guard headquarters which covers the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands in the East China Sea, known as the Diaoyus in China, Japanese public broadcaster NHK said Monday.

The 335-tonne "Kurose" and the 3,100-tonne "Chikuzen", equipped with a helicopter, will be deployed in August and October respectively, NHK reported.

On Sunday, Japan's Ground Self-Defense Force carried out the nation's first military exercise designed to recapture "a remote island invaded by an enemy force," officials said.

Some 300 troops took part in the 40-minute drill with 20 warplanes and more than 30 military vehicles at the Narashino Garrison in Chiba, southeast of Tokyo.

Some 80 personnel from the SDF's First Airborne Brigade rappelled from helicopters with parachutes in front of some 11,000 spectators to demonstrate manoeuvres to counter an enemy invasion of a remote island.

"We will strengthen the deployment of the Self-Defense Force in response to the tougher security environment surrounding our country," Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera told the military.

Chinese government ships and planes have been seen off the disputed islands numerous times since Japan nationalised them in September, sometimes within the 12 nautical-mile territorial zone.

Tokyo's defence ministry has said that F-15s were sent airborne to head off Chinese state-owned -- but not military -- planes four times in December, including an occasion when Japanese airspace was breached.

They were also mobilised in January, it said.

Japan plans to spend an extra 180.5 billion yen ($2.0 billion) on missiles, fighter jets and helicopters, an official said last week, as it tries to strengthen defence capabilities with concerns growing over a rising China.

The announcement came after Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's ruling Liberal Democratic Party said Japan would increase military spending for the first time in 11 years in the next fiscal year starting April.

Japan boosts defence of disputed islands - Channel NewsAsia


The game is heating up


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## Vitchilo

RANsquawk - Real-time Analysis & News Ltd


> - Japan's defense ministry is considering stationing F-15 fighter jets at an airport on Shimojijima Island in Okinawa Prefecture to be able to deal more promptly with Chinese aircraft entering Japanese airspace, according to Japanese government sources.


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## ahfatzia

*China to survey islands disputed with Japan*


BEIJING: China is to carry out a geographical survey of islands in the East China Sea at the centre of a bitter dispute with Japan, state media said Tuesday.

The survey of the Diaoyu islands -- known as Senkakus in Japan, which controls them -- was part of a programme to map China's "territorial islands and reefs", the Xinhua news agency said, citing a state geographical agency.

The maritime dispute, which has simmered off and on for years, intensified last year when the Japanese government nationalised islands in the small chain it did not already own, triggering anger and demonstrations in China.

The protests were allowed to take place by the Communist authorities in Beijing, who use nationalism to bolster their claims to legitimacy, particularly regarding Japan, which occupied parts of China in the 20th century.

The mapping exercise was part of China's efforts to "safeguard its maritime rights and interests", Xinhua said, without saying when it would take place or making clear whether it would involve activities on land, as opposed to sea-based surveying.

It quoted Zhang Huifeng, an official with China's National Administration of Surveying, Mapping and Geoinformation, acknowledging that there could be "difficulties".

"There are some difficulties in landing on some islands to survey, and in surveying and mapping the surrounding sea area of the islands, because some countries infringed and occupied these islands of China," he said.

Both Tokyo and Beijing have scrambled fighter jets to the area in recent weeks in a further escalation of the row, though no actual clashes have taken place.

China's armed forces have been instructed to raise their fighting ability in 2013 and "should focus closely on the objective of being able to fight and win a battle", state media said.

Japanese public broadcaster NHK reported Monday that Japan will deploy two more patrol ships to boost its defence of the islands and has conducted its first drill simulating the recapture of an isle seized by enemy forces.

Xinhua said that the survey was part of a programme begun in 2009 and by the end of 2012, China had completed the identification and "precise positioning" of approximately 6,400 islands.

In September China announced the "base points and baselines of the territorial waters of the Diaoyu Islands", filing details with the United Nations as part of the diplomatic sparring over the issue.

Within days China's State Oceanic Administration released geographic information about the islands in what Xinhua called a "new move to affirm China's sovereignty".

The data included "the exact longitude and latitude of the Diaoyu Island and 70 of its affiliated islets", along with "location maps, three-dimension effect graphs and sketch maps for the Diaoyu Islands", Xinhua added.

Last month Beijing also submitted to the UN information on the outer limits of its continental shelf in a bid to bolster its claim to the islands.

China also has disputes with several Southeast Asian countries over islands and reefs in the South China Sea. Japan, meanwhile, has a dispute with South Korea over small islets in waters about halfway between their countries.

Tokyo also has a long-running dispute with Russia over northern islands seized by the Soviet Union at the end of the Second World War.

China to survey islands disputed with Japan - Channel NewsAsia


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## Vitchilo

9 US F-22 fighters deployed in Okinawa - China.org.cn


> 9 US F-22 fighters deployed in Okinawa
> 
> Three more fighters of this kind are expected to arrive at Kadena shortly



Go ahead China, J-11s vs F-22s, it'll be hilarious.


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## ahfatzia

*U.S. delegation seeks to calm spats between Japan, South Korea*


(Reuters) - *The United States sent its top Asian diplomacy and security officials to South Korea and Japan to calm tensions between two U.S. allies whose squabbling has frustrated efforts to deal with a troublesome North Korea and an increasingly assertive China.*

The high-powered delegation from the White House, Pentagon and State Department departed on Monday and will be visiting the region shortly after the election of a new nationalist-leaning Japanese government in December and before Seoul inaugurates a new president in February.

*Washington hopes South Korea and Japan can put a lid on spats over history and territory stemming from Japan's 1910-45 occupation of Korea. U.S. officials also seek to reassure Tokyo as it confronts almost daily challenges from China over which has sovereignty of disputed islets in a separate, more dangerous, territorial row with Beijing.*

The long-simmering disputes erupted anew last year, plunging Tokyo's ties with Seoul and Beijing to troubling lows and casting a cloud over the President Barack Obama's signature policy for East Asia - rebalancing security forces in the region - in part to cope with a surging China.

*"We want to see the new Japanese government, the new South Korean government, all of the countries in Northeast Asia working together and solving any outstanding issues, whether they are territorial, whether they're historic, through dialogue," *State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said last week.

Troubles between Asia's second and fourth biggest economies are frustrating to Washington at a time when a defiant North Korea has tested a long-range rocket and may be poised to conduct its third nuclear test.

*CLEARING TENSIONS FROM 2012*

In one of the final acts before Obama brings in a new national security team for his second term, *Assistant Secretary of State Kurt Campbell, Assistant Secretary of Defense Mark Lippert and Daniel Russel, the National Security Council senior director for Asian affairs, will meet with officials in Seoul and Tokyo.*

U.S. officials regularly meet counterparts from the two countries, which have been American allies since the 1950s and together host most of the 80,000 U.S. troops in Asia. But *the antagonistic nationalism that flared up in Asian capitals last year makes this trip anything but routine.*

The Japan-South Korea dispute intensified in August when President Lee Myung-bak became the first South Korean leader to set foot on islands claimed by both countries but controlled by Seoul. They are known as Dokdo in Korea and Takeshima in Japan.

Lee's visit and his call for Emperor Akihito to go beyond earlier expressions of "deepest regrets" for Japan's colonial rule followed South Korea's last-minute cancellation of a bilateral agreement with Japan on sharing intelligence.

The troubles between Seoul and Tokyo coincided with a standoff between Japan and China over another cluster of islets, known as the Diaoyu in China and the Senkaku in Japan.

The dispute sparked violent anti-Japanese protests in China last summer that damaged Japanese businesses in China. Last year's protests have been followed by a consumer boycott and repeated incursions by Chinese boats and planes into seas and airspace around the islands, which are controlled by Japan.

*The ships and aircraft that have appeared to challenge Japanese control of those waters and force Tokyo to end its refusal to acknowledge that a territorial dispute exists have been Chinese government vessels. So far China has stopped short of sending military vessels into disputed areas.*

*But analysts warn of the potential for miscalculation. Any Japan-China conflict could embroil the United States, which says that the islets are covered under the U.S.-Japan security treaty - even though Washington takes no position on the sovereignty dispute.*

*ABE: NATIONALISM OR PRAGMATISM?*

Another understated aim of the U.S. mission to Tokyo this week is to convince Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to step away from some of the more nationalist policies of the platform on which he campaigned and won office on last month.

*Washington is* *particularly **concerned* about *Abe's previous calls to revise or **rescind a landmark 1995 apology for Japan's wartime aggression and 1993 statement acknowledging an official Japanese role in the recruiting of tens of thousands of mostly South Korean "comfort women" to serve troops during World War Two.*

Such actions would anger Asian nations that suffered from Japan's militarism, further complicating both U.S. attempts to manage ties between its allies in the region and relations with China, which also is ushering in new leadership in March.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said last week that Abe would stand by the 1995 apology. Although Abe packed his Cabinet with politicians who hold extremely revisionist views of history, analysts are predicting policies will be pragmatic, with a focus on reviving the economy.

"The Abe administration basically will not touch foreign diplomacy and security affairs before the Upper House election" in July, former Vice Minister for Defense Motohiro Oono of the opposition Democratic Party of Japan told a think tank panel in Washington last week.

Bruce Klingner, an analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said recent statements from Abe have been "suitably nuanced." He said during Abe's 2006-7 tenure as prime minister, he "defied many of the same predictions by maintaining and even improving Japan's relations with its neighbors."

Abe's gestures to neighbors include sending an envoy to meet South Korean President-elect Park Geun-hye; announcing that his first overseas trip since winning office will be to Indonesia, Vietnam and Thailand; and offering to supply the Philippines with 10 coast guard vessels and communications equipment to help Manila in its territorial dispute with China.

U.S. delegation seeks to calm spats between Japan, South Korea | Reuters


The team is bring directives from Washington


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## grandmaster

ahfatzia said:


> *U.S. delegation seeks to calm spats between Japan, South Korea*
> 
> 
> (Reuters) - *The United States sent its top Asian diplomacy and security officials to South Korea and Japan to calm tensions between two U.S. allies whose squabbling has frustrated efforts to deal with a troublesome North Korea and an increasingly assertive China.*
> 
> The high-powered delegation from the White House, Pentagon and State Department departed on Monday and will be visiting the region shortly after the election of a new nationalist-leaning Japanese government in December and before Seoul inaugurates a new president in February.
> 
> 
> *"We want to see the new Japanese government, the new South Korean government, all of the countries in Northeast Asia working together and solving any outstanding issues, whether they are territorial, whether they're historic, through dialogue," *State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said last week.
> The dispute sparked violent anti-Japanese protests in China last summer that damaged Japanese businesses in China. Last year's protests have been followed by a consumer boycott and repeated incursions by Chinese boats and planes into seas and airspace around the islands, which are controlled by Japan.
> ...



so, the US wants every country in the region works with japan to counter china! to neutralize their idea, china should spread the anti japan sentiment and call for boycotting of japanese goods more. by boycotting japanese goods, Abe's economic recover plans will fail. recovery fails, no money---> all connections of japan with india, vietnam and philippine will be broken!


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## Knight of Tang

WTF do you canadians have? 


Vitchilo said:


> 9 US F-22 fighters deployed in Okinawa - China.org.cn
> 
> 
> Go ahead China, J-11s vs F-22s, it'll be hilarious.


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## Jose4Zhou

Jealousy may be not a proper word. I think fear is better. Neighbours need time to accept the rised china.
Anyway war is the worst option.

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## grandmaster

Jose4Zhou said:


> Jealousy may be not a proper word. I think fear is better. Neighbours need time to accept the rised china.
> Anyway war is the worst option.



there are always many options. like F22 vs missile!


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## Vitchilo

> WTF do you canadians have?


F-16s. Still a match for J-11s.



> there are always many options. like F22 vs missile!


Yeah if the missile can find the plane.


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## Vitchilo

Japan, US fighter planes in joint drill: official


> Japan, US fighter planes in joint drill: official
> 
> US and Japanese fighter jets on Tuesday carried out joint air exercises, an official said, days after Chinese and Japanese military planes shadowed each other near disputed islands in the East China Sea.
> 
> The five-day exercise involves six US FA-18 fighters and around 90 American personnel, along with four Japanese F-4 jets and an unspecified number of people, the official said.
> 
> The drill is being carried out over Pacific waters off the coast of Shikoku, the fourth largest of Japan's islands.
> 
> On Tuesday, one Chinese state-owned Y-12 plane flew close to -- but not inside -- the airspace of the disputed islands, triggering the scrambling of Japanese fighter jets, the defence ministry in Tokyo said.


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## Knight of Tang

You really know nothing about military affairs. F-16 is a match for J-11, You PE teacher told you that?
Besides, I always get curious about the functionality of your ministry of foreign affairs, is that really necessary?


Vitchilo said:


> F-16s. Still a match for J-11s.
> 
> 
> Yeah if the missile can find the plane.


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## Vitchilo

F-16 has a proven record. J-11 on the other hand, doesn't have any. Also, western pilots have much more training than Chinese pilots.

So please, facts are against you. Stop believing all your government propaganda about your planes being better than anybody because they are Chinese, this is ridiculous.


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## mastaan

mastaan said:


> BEIJING: The action in the skies over the East China Sea started simply enough. Last week, the Chinese government sent a civilian surveillance plane, a twin propeller aircraft, to fly near the uninhabited islands at the heart of a growing feud between China and Japan.
> 
> Tokyo, in response, ordered F-15 fighter jets to take a look at what it considered Chinese meddling. The Chinese then sent their own fighters.
> 
> It was the first time that supersonic Chinese and Japanese military fighters were in the air together since the dispute over the islands erupted last year, significantly increasing the risk of a mistake that could lead to armed conflict at a time when both countries, despite their mutual economic interests, are going through a period of heightened nationalism that recalls their longstanding regional rivalry.
> 
> The escalation comes amid a blast of belligerent discourse in China and as the Obama administration has delayed a visit to Washington requested by Shinzo Abe, the new prime minister of Japan, the United States' main ally in Asia. After the rebuff, Abe announced that he would embark on a tour of Southeast Asia intended to counter China's influence in the region. On Friday, as Abe cut short his trip to return to Tokyo to deal with the hostage crisis in Algeria, secretary of state Hillary Rodham Clinton said in Washington that Abe would meet with President Obama in the second half of February.
> 
> For Japan and China, what began as a seemingly minor dispute is quickly turning into a gathering storm, military analysts and western diplomatic officials warn, as each country appears determined to force the other to give ground.
> 
> "What is really driving things is raw nationalism and fragmented political systems, both on the Japanese and even more so the Chinese sides, that is preventing smart people from making rational decisions," said Thomas Berger, an associate professor of international relations at Boston University. "No Chinese or Japanese leader wants or can afford to be accused of selling out their country."
> 
> The backdrop for the dispute is the changing military and economic dynamic in the region. In Japan, which rose from utter defeat in World War II to become a prosperous global economic power, many experts talk of a nation preparing for an "elegant" decline. But Abe has made clear that he does not subscribe to that idea and hopes to stake out a tough posture on the islands as a way of engineering a Japanese comeback.
> 
> In contrast, Beijing brims with confidence, reveling in the belief that the 21st century belongs to China &#8212; with the return of the islands the Chinese call the Diaoyu and the Japanese refer to as the Senkaku as a starting point.
> 
> Though Japan is far richer than China on a per-person basis, its economy has been stagnant for years and contracted once again in the second half of 2012. It was hit hard by a slowdown in exports to China after the island dispute erupted in August; Chinese protesters disrupted Japanese plants in China and boycotted Japanese products during the autumn. The value of Japanese exports to China fell by 17 per cent between June and November, the World Bank said this week.
> 
> China's fast-growing military still lags behind the Japanese self-defence forces in sophistication of weaponry and training, but Japan's edge is diminishing, according to Dr Berger, an expert on the Japanese military, and other western defence analysts.
> 
> For now the Chinese military wants to avoid armed conflict over the islands, Dr Berger said, but its longer-term goal is to pressure Japan to give up its administration of the islands. That would give China a break in what is known in China as the "first island chain," a string including the Diaoyu, that prevents China's growing ballistic submarine fleet from having unobserved access to the Pacific Ocean. Taiwan is part of the "first island chain," as are smaller islands controlled by Vietnam and the Philippines.
> 
> "The Chinese leadership seems to think that the cards are in their favor, and if they push long and hard enough, the Japanese have to cave," Dr Berger said.
> 
> A senior American military official said that Washington considered China's decision to send its fighter jets in response to Japan's to be "imprudent" but not a violation of international law. The Chinese jets had entered what is known as Japan's air defence identity zone, but had not infringed Japan's airspace, the official said.
> 
> The United States was watching closely and advising restraint on both sides, because there is no established method of communication &#8212; or hot line &#8212; between Japan and China that can be used in the event of a confrontation. With jet fighters from both countries aloft last week, "the potential for mistakes that could have broader consequences" was vastly increased, the official said.
> 
> The Chinese state-run news media have stepped up their hawkish tone since the episode. On Abe's trip to Southeast Asia, which the Chinese say is intended to create a pro-Japan alliance, the overseas edition of People's Daily newspaper said, "Even the United States, the world's sole superpower, acknowledged that it cannot encircle and contain China, so why should Japan?"
> 
> Chinese experts express similar views. In an interview, Hu Lingyuan, the deputy director of the Center for Japanese Studies at Fudan University in Shanghai, described Abe as a Japanese nationalist who was trying to overextend Japan's reach. "The Diaoyu conflict keeps escalating," he said. "A solution is not possible." And as the commentary became harsher, the Chinese news media stressed reports of training by the military's East China Sea units. Dozens of J-10 fighter jets participated in a live ammunition drill with the navy's East China Sea fleet, the state run news agency, Xinhua, reported Thursday.
> 
> Before returning to Japan, Abe spoke to reporters in Jakarta, Indonesia. He said he opposed "changing the status quo by force," and called on China to behave in a responsible manner.
> 
> "The seas is a public asset that should not be governed by force but by rule of law that keeps it freely open to all," he said. "We will work with Asean nations to do our utmost to defend this."
> 
> With a top United States diplomat, Kurt M Campbell, in Tokyo this week, Washington is urging both sides to open a dialogue.
> 
> But the initial signs are not particularly promising. On Thursday, a former Japanese prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama of the opposition Democratic Party, met in Beijing with Jia Qinglin, the chairman of the national committee of the Chinese People's political consultative conference.
> 
> The setting looked conciliatory. China, however, used the occasion to make a point that was immediately rejected in Tokyo. Jia called for talks with Japan over the disputed islands, an idea that Japan has always said was unacceptable. Japanese governments have consistently maintained that the islands rightfully belong to Japan and that there is nothing to discuss.
> 
> Martin Fackler contributed reporting from Tokyo. Bree Feng contributed research.
> 
> As dispute over islands escalates, Japan and China send fighter jets to scene - The Times of India



What's with this news folks? Press sensationalism or some big risks are indeed emerging?


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## 3Idiots

Irrespective of the outcome of these "small" things.. it's yet another step towards annihilation of PRC.

The only interesting question is that whether it will be a military annhiliation (like Nazi Germany) or a peaceful demise (like USSR).


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## mastaan

3Idiots said:


> Irrespective of the outcome of these "small" things.. it's yet another step towards annihilation of PRC.
> 
> The only interesting question is that whether it will be a military annhiliation (like Nazi Germany) or a peaceful demise (like USSR).



Don't think China is Germany or that it is piece of cake to attack and hurt China for Japan without almost insuring its own destruction. 

Annihilation is a big word. And, you also have to account for the collateral damage that such a flare up into a full scale war can cause on Japan. US nuked them, China might just sink them in the pacific.


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## IamINDIA

China should tread carefully... almost every country around it wants it gone and America is looking for an excuse to attack it. China will be the one to suffer if it declares hostilities.


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## ahfatzia

*Clinton assures Tokyo support in islands spat*







_U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida speak to the press following talks at the State Department in Washington, Friday, Jan. 18. (AP)
_


WASHINGTON -- *U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton assured Japan on Friday of U.S. support in Tokyo's dispute with Beijing over a string of islands* and invited new Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to Washington in late February for a meeting with President Barack Obama. 

Clinton held a working lunch with Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida, and both emerged pledging that U.S.-Japan security and economic ties would remain strong following Abe's landslide election victory last month.

*Our alliance with Japan remains the cornerstone of American engagement with the region, *Clinton told reporters, noting a wide range of cooperation on everything from disaster relief to the standoff over nuclear North Korea.

*Clinton, due to step down in coming weeks, again affirmed that the United States would stand by its longtime ally in its territorial dispute with China over islets in the East China Sea claimed by both countries.*

Tensions over the tiny islands, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, have flared in recent months, one of several maritime territorial disputes involving China that have worsened as Washington seeks to shift its security focus to Asia.

*Although the United States does not take a position on the ultimate sovereignty of the islands, we acknowledge they are under the administration of Japan,* Clinton said, repeating the long-standing U.S. position on the dispute.

*We oppose any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration, and we urge all parties to take steps to prevent incidents and manage disagreements through peaceful means.*

Kishida signaled that Abe, who had taken a tough stance on the dispute during his election campaign, was not eager to escalate the conflict.

While Japan will not concede and will uphold our fundamental position that the Senkaku islands are an inherent territory of Japan, we intend to respond calmly so as not to provoke China, he said through an interpreter.

Clinton announced that Abe had been invited to Washington in the third week of February to hold his first meeting with Obama.

*Facing China*

Abe had hoped to make the United States his first overseas visit following his election last month on a platform that called for both reviving Japan's struggling economy and coping with China's rising power in the region.

But the visit was postponed due to Obama's tight schedule, and Abe traveled instead to Southeast Asia before cutting the trip short this week to return home after Japanese workers were caught up in the hostage crisis in Algeria.

Abe came to power partly on a nationalist platform and wants to revise Japan's U.S.-drafted constitution adopted after World War II. U.S. officials have indicated they would like to see Japan loosen constitutional restraints on its military to enable a bigger global security role.

The United States and Japan have also sought to cooperate on plans to streamline the U.S. military presence in the southern Japanese island of Okinawa including proposals to move the Futenma air base to a new site.

Clinton said she was confident that the two sides could make further progress on the issue, while Kishida said the Abe administration was committed to working through a framework deal the two sides announced last year. 

Clinton assures Tokyo support in islands spat - The China Post


Is she bluffing or shooting from the hip? She means the US would go to war over one of her ally's spats on some distance rocks? No wonder the US is the most warmongering nation on Earth!


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## Gyp 111

Financial Express :: Financial Newspaper of Bangladesh

TOKYO, Jan 19 (AFP): Three Chinese government ships Saturday entered Japanese territorial waters around disputed islands, Japan's coastguard said, hours after a veiled US warning to Beijing not to challenge Tokyo's control. 

The surveillance vessels sailed in waters around the islands known as the Senkakus in Japan and Diaoyus in China for nearly five hours, the coastguard said. 

The vessels had all left Japanese waters by 1:52 pm (0452 GMT) and were travelling away from the East China Sea islands, which are controlled by Tokyo but claimed by Beijing, a coastguard official said. 

China has repeatedly sailed into the waters since Japan nationalised the chain in September, a move that triggered anger and demonstrations in China. 

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, speaking at a joint news conference with Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida in Washington Friday, said the disputed area was under Japan's administration and hence protected under a US security treaty with Tokyo. 

"We oppose any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration," Clinton said. 

Clinton did not mention Beijing directly but said: "We want to see China and Japan resolve this matter peacefully through dialogue." 

"We do not want to see any action taken by anyone that could raise tensions or result in miscalculation that would undermine the peace, security and economic growth in this region," she added. 

The United States insists it is neutral on the ultimate sovereignty of the islands. 

China has repeatedly criticised the US position and the sending of maritime surveillance ships to the potentially gas- rich area is seen by experts as a way to contest the notion that Japan holds effective control. 

Kishida took a measured tone on China, describing the relationship with Beijing as "one of the most important" for Japan. 

"While Japan will not concede and will uphold our fundamental positions that the Senkaku islands are an inherent territory of Japan, we intend to respond calmly so as not to provoke China," Kishida said. 

Meanwhile, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton issued a veiled warning Friday to China not to challenge Japan's control of disputed islands as Tokyo's new government vowed not to aggravate tensions. 

Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida met with Clinton on the first trip by a top Japanese official since Japan's conservatives returned to power last month. Clinton announced that Prime Minister Shinzo Abe would visit in February. 

Amid signs that China is testing control over virtually uninhabited islands in the East China Sea, Clinton said the area was under Japan's control and hence protected under a US security treaty with Tokyo. 

"We oppose any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration," Clinton told a joint news conference with Kishida. 

Clinton did not mention Beijing directly in the warning, but said: "We want to see China and Japan resolve this matter peacefully through dialogue." 

"We do not want to see any action taken by anyone that could raise tensions or result in miscalculation that would undermine the peace, security and economic growth in this region," she said.


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## Soryu

No need for create new theard for this. Old trick from China ships will not work...

 Diaoyu Islands &#38035;&#40060;&#23707; News and Updates


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## Wright

mastaan said:


> Don't think China is Germany or that it is piece of cake to attack and hurt China for Japan without almost insuring its own destruction.
> 
> Annihilation is a big word. And, you also have to account for the collateral damage that such a flare up into a full scale war can cause on Japan. US nuked them, China might just sink them in the pacific.



No china is no Germany. US wont be trying to steal Chinese tech like they did with the Germans.


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## mastaan

Wright said:


> No china is no Germany. US wont be trying to steal Chinese tech like they did with the Germans.



You may try all smart one liners you want... You know exactly what I mean... China ain't no Germany... And, there ain't no allied forces nomore... lol


----------



## mirage2K

BEIJING: Amid rising tensions with Japan over disputed islands, Chinese army in a bid to scale up battle readiness has ordered its armed helicopters to shift focus from logistic missions and gear up for combat operations. 

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) planned to change the training strategy of its army aviation unit as more and more armed helicopters joined the service, PLA Daily which is the official newspaper of the military quoted an army aviation unit as saying. 

The focus of army aviation unit will be shifted from logistics missions to combat ones, from building the capacity for non-war military actions to core military actions, state-run Xinhua news agency quoted the daily as saying. 

The unit will work on major missions such as long-distance tasks, large scale offshore operations, attack coordination with other units and large scale airborne operations, it said, adding that the unit will also aim to improve its operation capability based on IT technologies. 

Both China and Japan have scaled up military operations after the escalation of the dispute over the islands called Diaoyu by China and Senkakus by Japan. 

The PLA move comes in the backdrop of recent military drills conducted by the Japanese army helicopters to defend the islands from enemy raids. 

Chinese military exercises in recent months involving ships and aircraft focused on taking the islands and retaining them. 

While naval ships of both the countries patrolled the waters of the islands, the two also scrambled aircraft last week to intercept surveillance planes. 

Conflict over the islands escalated after Japan, which retained the administrative control over the islands bought them from a private party. 

Objecting the move, China sent its ships into the island waters. 

On January 15, General Staff Headquarters of the PLA had asked commanders and soldiers to strengthen their readiness for possible war with a directive to stage more exercises. 

"The General Staff Headquarters of PLA has pledged to stage more military drills that simulate real combat, urging commanders and soldiers to strengthen their readiness for possible war", the PLA daily reported. 

In a directive on military training in 2013, the headquarters said the PLA is determined to improve its combat capability by holding more military exercises to mock real situations on the battlefield, according to the report. 

All servicemen and servicewomen should always bear in mind the awareness of war and the sense of crisis, the directive said.

China-Japan island dispute: Beijing orders helicopter units to be combat ready - The Times of India


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## faithfulguy

TOKYO (AP)  Japan says it may fire warning shots and take other measures to keep foreign aircraft from violating its airspace in the latest verbal blast between Tokyo and Beijing that raises concerns that a dispute over hotly contested islands could spin out of control.

Japanese officials made the comments after Chinese fighters tailed its warplanes near the islands recently. The incident is believed to be the first scrambling of Chinese fighters since the tensions began to rise last spring.

According to Chinese media, a pair of J-10 fighters was scrambled after Japanese F-15s began tailing a Chinese surveillance plane near the disputed islands in the East China Sea. China has complained the surveillance flight did not violate Japanese airspace and the F-15s were harassing it.

It was the first time the Chinese media has reported fighters being mobilized to respond to Japanese air force activity in the area and comes amid what Japan says is a rapid intensification of Chinese air force activity around the islands, where Japanese and Chinese coast guard ships have squared off for months.

Though there have been no outright clashes, the increased sea and air operations have fueled worries that the situation could spin out of control.

Such concerns have grown over official comments suggesting new Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his Cabinet are considering the use of "tracer" fire as a means of responding to airspace incursions. Tracer rounds are designed to burn brightly to get the attention of a pilot who may have missed other warnings due to a radio malfunction, while also indicating that the aircraft firing them is prepared to take further action.

"Every country has procedures for how to deal with a violation of its territory that continues after multiple cautionary measures," Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said Wednesday when asked if tracer shots would be fired against intruding aircraft that refuse to change course. "We have response measures ready that are consistent with global standards."

Onodera said the use of warning shots has long been provided for under Japan's defense policies and is widely accepted under international rules of engagement. Japan's air force has not actually resorted to them since 1987  against a Soviet aircraft  and none were fired last week.

But Chinese and Japanese media have suggested Tokyo is publicly floating the possibility to test China's reaction.

The escalation of tensions has worried the United States, with Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton saying Friday that while the U.S. doesn't take a position on who has sovereignty over the islands, it opposes "any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration."

That brought a sharp retort from the Chinese Foreign Ministry on Sunday. The comments "ignore the facts" that the islands are China's inherent territory, spokesman Qin Gang said in a statement that urged the U.S. to adopt "a responsible attitude."

In Beijing last week, a Foreign Ministry spokesman said China is on "high alert" and suggested Japan is escalating the tensions over the islands, called the Diaoyu in China and the Senkaku in Japan. Taiwan also claims the small isles, which are uninhabited but may be surrounded by valuable underwater natural resources.

"Chinese planes and ships are exercising normal jurisdiction in the waters and airspace surrounding the Diaoyu Islands," spokesman Hong Lei said. "We are opposed to the operations of Japan's planes and ships, which violate our rights around Diaoyu. We are on high alert against this escalation."

As is often the case, Chinese media quoted military academics with a much more fiery response.

"Japan's desire to fire tracer warning shots as a way of frightening the Chinese is nothing but a joke that shows the stupidity, cruelty and failure to understand their own limitations," Maj. Gen. Peng Guangqian of the Chinese Academy of Military Sciences was quoted as saying by the China News Service and other state media.

"Firing tracer bullets is a type of provocation; it's firing the first shot," he said. "Were Japan to dare to fire tracers, which is to say fire the first shot, then China wouldn't stint on responding and not allow them to fire the second shot."

Peng said Japan may have put out the report to generate discussion and gauge China's response


Japan talk of warning shots heats up China dispute - Yahoo! News


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## Type 052D

If CPC and ROC put their differences aside then Japan can never shatter Chinese unity (Han/Hui/Turk/Machu)


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## Vitchilo

> If CPC and ROC put their differences aside then Japan can never shatter Chinese unity (Han/Hui/Turk/Machu)


You know why it won't happen? Because ROC people don't want to be ruled by a bunch of corrupt dictators. 

Unless the mainland does big big big reforms, it just won't happen. Well not peacefully anyways. 

There's a big difference in philosophy... just like NKorea/SKorea.


----------



## northeast

Type 052D said:


> If CPC and ROC put their differences aside then Japan can never shatter Chinese unity (Han/Hui/Turk/Machu)



ROC is just a pathetic and weak loser dog.

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## shuttler

Vitchilo said:


> You know why it won't happen? Because ROC people don't want to be ruled by a bunch of corrupt dictators.
> 
> Unless the mainland does big big big reforms, it just won't happen. Well not peacefully anyways.
> 
> There's a big difference in philosophy... just like NKorea/SKorea.



There is a lot of differences between DPRK/ROK and China/Taiwan.

The traitor:





















The corrupt:











The corrupt and gay:


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## Vitchilo

The traitors are the ones calling themselves leaders while not having the backing of the people... aka Chinese leaders... Unelected corrupt bureaucrats.

How can anyone who values freedom back such a regime?? They cannot.


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## DV RULES

BEIJING - China said it was strongly dissatisfied Sunday after US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton issued a veiled warning to Beijing not to challenge Tokyos control of disputed islands at the centre of a bitter territorial row. China is strongly dissatisfied with and resolutely opposes the remarks, Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said in a statement on the ministrys website.The maritime dispute, which has simmered off and on for years, intensified last year when the Japanese government nationalised islands in the small chain it did not already own, triggering angry responses in China.China has since increased maritime and air patrols near the East China Sea territory, and in further escalations in recent weeks both Beijing and Tokyo have scrambled fighter jets, though there have been no clashes.We urge the US side to treat the issue of the Diaoyu islands with a responsible attitude, Qin said, referring to the territory by its Chinese name. Japan calls the islands the Senkakus.He also called for Washington to be careful in words, cautious in actions and to take realistic actions to protect the peace and stability of the region and Chinese-US relations.Qins statement came after Clinton on Friday said the US opposed any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration of the islands.Clinton, speaking at a press conference with Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida in Washington, did not mention Beijing directly but said she wanted China and Japan to settle the issue peacefully.We do not want to see any action taken by anyone that could raise tensions or result in miscalculation that would undermine the peace, security and economic growth in this region, she said.The US insists it is neutral on the ultimate sovereignty of the islands but also says they are under Japans de facto administration.China has persistently criticised the US position and Beijings sending of maritime surveillance ships to the potentially gas-rich area is seen by experts as a way to contest the notion of Japanese control.Complicating the issue is a security treaty that obliges the US - which keeps military bases in Japan - to aid the country in the event it is attacked.Another factor that has raised tensions is the coming to power last month of hawkish Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, whose party won a landslide victory in elections.Last week, state media said China will carry out a geographical survey of the islands and also reported that Chinas armed forces have been instructed to raise their fighting ability in 2013 with the objective of being able to fight and win a battle.Chinas official reaction to Clintons comments came a day after state media harshly criticised them.The official Xinhua news agency called it unwise for Washington to throw support behind Japan in Tokyos islands dispute with Beijing, adding: This unbalanced position has betrayed its declared intention to stay neutral on the issue.

TheNation


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## Vitchilo

Boohoo. We're all so afraid... NOT.


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## anilindia

northeast said:


> Barking dogs never bite.



They bite. cant you see Afganistan and Iraq


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## shuttler

Vitchilo said:


> The traitors are the ones calling themselves leaders while not having the backing of the people... aka Chinese leaders... Unelected corrupt bureaucrats.
> 
> How can anyone who values freedom back such a regime?? They cannot.



CCP is amongst (if not) the highest approval ratings in the world. 
india is another place where you can find massive corruption and worsening. 

Politics is too complex for kids like you to understand. 

We are dealing head on with corruption. Let's see how it goes! How is your ancestral country doing with fighting on corruption?


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## anilindia

WASHINGTON--U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton reassured Japan that the Senkaku Islands in Okinawa Prefecture are under the administration of Japan, adding that Washington opposes "any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration."

Clinton's remarks, made in connection with her talks with Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida at the State Department in Washington on Friday, are believed to be a warning to China over the nation's provocations near the islands.

Clinton and Kishida agreed that the first Japan-U.S. summit meeting between Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and President Barack Obama will take place sometime in the week of Feb. 17.

Clinton also referred to the issue of the Senkaku Islands at a press conference after the meeting, saying, "We acknowledge they are under the administration of Japan and we oppose any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration."

Clinton also reiterated the U.S. government's position that the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty obliges the United States to defend Japan in case of island-related hostilities.

"With regard to regional security, I reiterated longstanding American policy on the Senkaku Islands and our treaty obligations," Clinton said.

Acknowledging Clinton's remarks, Kishida said, "While Japan will not concede and will uphold our fundamental position that the Senkaku Islands are an inherent territory of Japan, we intend to respond calmly so as not to provoke China."

Kishida and Clinton also agreed to reinforce the Japan-U.S. alliance.

Kishida explained the government's plan to boost the defense budget and review Japan's outline of defense policy. 

Regarding the relocation of the U.S. Marine Corps' Futenma Air Station in Ginowan in the prefecture, Clinton expressed hopes of resolving the issue, saying, "We are confident that we can make progress on force realignment in Okinawa, including moving ahead with construction of the Futenma replacement facility."

Regarding Japan's participation in negotiations over the Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade framework, the two confirmed both governments will remain in close contact on the matter.

Clinton also said she would welcome Japan's participation in the TPP talks.

Prior to the talks with Clinton, Kishida met U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk. 

In the meeting with Kirk, Kishida explained the Liberal Democratic Party's campaign pledge from the House of Representatives election, saying the party opposes participation in TPP negotiations as long as the pact is premised on the elimination of all tariffs without exception.

Regarding nuclear power, Kishida said the government will review the Democratic Party of Japan's policy to have zero nuclear reactors operating in the 2030s.


Clinton sends warning to China over Senkakus : National : DAILY YOMIURI ONLINE (The Daily Yomiuri)


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## Ayush

Well said Mrs.Clinton.


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## northeast

anilindia said:


> They bite. cant you see Afganistan and Iraq



I meant China.


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## hurt

we only mind dominion.
administration is only a joy.

Why not Mrs.Clinton. talk about dominion.


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## jhungary

The fact to the matter is.

China strongly dissatisified, but what are they going to do??


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## shuttler

*Chinese fleet monitors Japanese ships around Diaoyu Islands *

English.news.cn 2013-01-21 14:45:03 

Xinhuanet

BEIJING, Jan. 21 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese marine surveillance fleet continued patrolling China's territorial waters around the Diaoyu Islands on Monday and monitored Japanese ships that violated China's territorial waters.

The vessels -- Haijian 137, Haijian 23 and Haijian 46 -- followed and engaged in surveillance of the Japanese ships, solemnly declared China's sovereignty over the islands and demanded the Japanese ships' immediate departure from Chinese waters, according to a statement issued by the State Oceanic Administration.



Abhishek_ said:


> reminds me of the chinese ministry of warnings



indian cheerleaders' time for orgasm!

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## akinkhoo

what is clinton going to do? send china a "strongly worded statement" again? 

US dare not start a war with China, they can barely deal with a fishing boat. if China put a destroyer there, neither Japan or US can do anything about it, the island is simply too close to China's land based missiles(since it just next to taiwan).


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## unicorn

United States does not have the balls to get itself involve militarily in China's internal matters.


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## conworldus

If the US wants a war, then so be it. China may be back to stone age, but the US won't fare much better than bronze age, either.


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## indian_foxhound

Hallucinating Chinese arm chair generals high on the polluted air of Beijing openly talking of war on TV talk shows






WATCH Chinese television these days and you
might conclude that the outbreak of war with
Japan over what it calls the Senkaku and China
the Diaoyu islands is only a matter of time. You
might well be right. Since Japan in September
announced it would nationalise three of the islands that had been privately owned, China,
which has long contested Japans sovereignty
over them, has also started challenging its
resolve to keep control of them. So both
countries are claiming to own the islands and
both are pretending to administer them. China this week announced its intention to map them
thoroughly. Something has to give. Since then China, too, has become more assertive
over the islands. Already, in his speech to the
Communist Partys five-yearly congress in
November, Hu Jintao, its outgoing leader, had
declared Chinas ambition to build itself into a
maritime power, the first time this had been stated so explicitly. Nor is it clear that his
successor, the less wooden Xi Jinping, who will
be named president in March, shares his
predecessors habitual caution in dealings with
America. He will surely see no benefit in
compromising with Japan, which is despised by many Chinese. And, with little or no military
experience, he will want to appear a strong
commander-in-chief. It is against this backdrop that televised military
punditry is booming in China. On current-affairs
programmes, armchair warriors pontificate
about the Diaoyus. Newspapers propagate a
uniformly jingoistic analysis of the increasing
likelihood of armed conflict. They are not making it up. Last month a small
aircraft of Chinas State Oceanic Bureau flew into
what Japan considers its territorial airspace over
the Senkakus. Flying too low to be detected by
Japans land-based radar, it was spotted too late
for a scramble of eight F-15 fighter jets to prove effective. Since then, Japan has deployed
Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS).
On January 7th Chinese patrol ships spent more
than 13 hours near the islandslonger than ever
before, said Japanese officials. On January 10th,
when two Japanese F-15s scrambled to intercept a Chinese plane flying near the islands, China
scrambled its own fighter jets. Now the Japanese air force is weighing whether
to fire warning shots if Chinese aircraft come into
its airspace, for the first time since 1987, when
the former Soviet Union intruded. For General
Peng Guanqian of the Chinese Academy of
Military Sciences, interviewed on a Chinese web portal, this would amount to the first shot of
actual combat. China should then respond
without courtesy, he said. The Japanese press
reported that America had also warned Japan
against firing shots.
A widely read, if shrill, Beijing newspaper, Global Times, has argued that Japan might not be
deterred and we need to prepare for the
worst. Japan, it said, had become the
vanguard of an American strategy to contain
China. The implication was that China should
also be ready to take on America, which has made clear that its security treaty with Japan
covers the disputed islets.

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## Diamond_Gold

Ayush said:


> Well said Mrs.Clinton.



They are just mere words of threats with no actual susbstance to the PRC chinese. In fact, when the the time is ripe for the PRC to strike, even US will back off at the expanse of the Japanese.

Because in reality, no one in this world is stupid enough to assist an unrepented criminal nation to create a catastrophe for themselves and the whole world. 

Get that in your empty vessel or what ever it is in your head, Mr. almighty and very very smart indian! LOLOL...


----------



## Diamond_Gold

indian_foxhound said:


> *Hallucinating* Chinese arm chair generals high on the polluted air of Beijing openly talking of war on TV talk shows



Said who? by an (indian) expert in hallucination?

This guy must be looking into a mirror when he is talking about "hallucinating". LOLOL...


----------



## Viet

unicorn said:


> *United States does not have the balls* to get itself involve militarily in China's internal matters.



Who wants to bet? I wouldn´t put China´s fate on the poker table.



akinkhoo said:


> what is clinton going to do? send china a "strongly worded statement" again?
> 
> US dare not start a war with China, they can barely deal with a fishing boat. if China put a destroyer there, neither Japan or US can do anything about it, the island is simply too close to China's land based missiles(since it just next to taiwan).



You are joking! China´s navy is still not strong enough to win naval battles against Japan and America.


----------



## faithfulguy

Viet said:


> Who wants to bet? I wouldn´t put China´s fate on the poker table.
> 
> 
> 
> You are joking! China´s navy is still not strong enough to win naval battles against Japan and America.



American navy is certainly capable of handling Chinese. But this is the not the issue here. The issue is that America should not deal with problems that Asians ought to deal with themselves.


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## Ayush

Diamond_Gold said:


> They are just mere words of threats with no actual susbstance to the PRC chinese. In fact, when the the time is ripe for the PRC to strike, even US will back off at the expanse of the Japanese.
> 
> Because in reality, no one in this world is stupid enough to assist an unrepented criminal nation to create a catastrophe for themselves and the whole world.
> 
> Get that in your empty vessel or what ever it is in your head, Mr. almighty and very very smart indian! LOLOL...



Because in reality, no one in this world is stupid enough to assist an unrepented criminal nation to create a catastrophe for themselves and the whole world. 

u said it yourself.and u have ur own definition of a criminal nation,i have my own.

get in that already full vessel of yours that u dont impose ur views on others.u have ur own view,and i have my own.

go dress in your diamonds and golds.


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## shuttler

clinton is at the end of her post as sec of state. she can say anything irresponsibly and let kerry wipes her a**. 

it was the stupidity of the japanese to initiate the purchase intent of the islands which started off the worsening of the conflict and now takes it to a new level. 

The routine patrol of our territory whether by sea or air is the duties of the various administrative departments now. So what!


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## anon45

faithfulguy said:


> American navy is certainly capable of handling Chinese. But this is the not the issue here. The issue is that America should not deal with problems that Asians ought to deal with themselves.



There are alot of things people 'ought' to do. We have a treaty with Japan that we are bound to honor, because they are not just a longstanding democratic ally, they are a critical ally for us in the region.

The Chinese on here think we are bluffing, that we won't get involved, but I hope they eventually see otherwise, that the US is in fact very serious about this commitment. This is no bluff.

China wouldn't be the first country to have underestimated our resolve, hopefully they won't make the same mistake as others in the past and bring about a war that will end in tears for everyone.


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## shuttler

anon45 said:


> There are alot of things people 'ought' to do. We have a treaty with Japan that we are bound to honor, because they are not just a longstanding democratic ally, they are a critical ally for us in the region.
> 
> The Chinese on here think we are bluffing, that we won't get involved, but I hope they eventually see otherwise, that the US is in fact very serious about this commitment. This is no bluff.
> 
> China wouldn't be the first country to have underestimated our resolve, hopefully they won't make the same mistake as others in the past and bring about a war that will end in tears for everyone.



We are not bluffing either in ascertaining our rights to claim what is ours in the territory! We are patrolling our territory on a regular basis. So what!


----------



## shuttler

*China, Japan keeping communication on Diaoyu Islands*

Xinhuanet.com

BEIJING, Jan. 21 (Xinhua) -- A spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry said Monday that the country is maintaining communication with Japan on the Diaoyu Islands issue.

At a daily pressing briefing, spokesman Hong Lei said China urges Japan to calmly handle the Diaoyu Islands issue and show sincerity in working with China to properly resolve and control the situation.

Hong said China consistently advocates resolving territorial disputes through dialogue and consultation, while the country is determined to protect, and capable of defending, its territorial sovereignty.

The official patrols of Chinese ships in the country's territorial sea area surrounding the Diaoyu Islands are normal and in line with the country's jurisdiction, Hong said, stressing that Japan's so-called "existence on," or "control of," the relevant sea area is illegal and invalid.


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## Vitchilo

Americans have the balls to take on China... Obama on the other hand...


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## Fsjal

Viet said:


> Who wants to bet? I wouldn´t put China´s fate on the poker table.
> 
> 
> 
> You are joking! China´s navy is still not strong enough to win naval battles against Japan and America.



Are you implying that your country's navy has obsolete tech. China's navy is quite strong, so don't underestimate your foe.


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## Soryu

Fsjal said:


> Are you implying that your country's navy has obsolete tech. China's navy is quite strong, so don't underestimate your foe.


Stop trolling false flag. He said nothing about VPA navy for you get it.


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## anon45

shuttler said:


> We are not bluffing either in ascertaining our rights to claim what is ours in the territory! We are patrolling our territory on a regular basis. So what!



I have no doubts as to Chinese belief in their own claims, just as I have no doubt in Japanese belief in their own claims, but i'm making sure you have no doubts the US is going to get involved in a big and forceful way should this come to blows. 

War with the US will not have a good ending for China, just keep that in mind, i'm under no illusions that a China we can work with would be infinitely of more benefit than a China that we are at war with and vice-versa for China, but our hands are tied, it is your country's choice, your decision for war or peace.

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## Gooo

anon45 said:


> I have no doubts as to Chinese belief in their own claims, just as I have no doubt in Japanese belief in their own claims, but i'm making sure you have no doubts the US is going to get involved in a big and forceful way should this come to blows.
> 
> War with the US will not have a good ending for China, just keep that in mind, i'm under no illusions that a China we can work with would be infinitely of more benefit than a China that we are at war with and vice-versa for China, but our hands are tied, it is your country's choice, your decision for war or peace.



You mean like the ending to the Korean War? 
US is a paper tiger that only fights small countries.
They have never defeated Russia or China in war. 
If you mess with us, we can impose maximum possible punishment on the US. US can destroy China but don't you ever think for one single second American mainland will be untouched. China has the firepower to cause absolutely MASSIVE damage to the United States. US won't be better off than China in any war.

You can take that to the bank son.

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## anon45

Gooo said:


> You mean like the ending to the Korean War?
> US is a paper tiger that only fights small countries.
> They have never defeated Russia or China in war.
> If you mess with us, we can impose maximum possible punishment on the US. US can destroy China but don't you ever think for one single second American mainland will be untouched. China has the firepower to cause absolutely MASSIVE damage to the United States. US won't be better off than China in any war.
> 
> You can take that to the bank son.



Again, it is your decision for war or peace, if you choose war then we will fight.

If you believe the US is a paper tiger, I urge to you to reassess your thoughts, because you wager the future of your country, your community, your family, and yourself on that assumption.

We do not want war, but neither will we accept a tyrannical peace.

Our countries have more to offer each other through trade, prosperity, and shared scientific pursuits than bombs and missiles, and shared pain and destruction, but it is ultimately your choice which path we take.

China cannot attempt to take the Senkaku Islands by force and remain at peace with the United States, it is your decision and your call, that is all.

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## Viet

@anon45

That is clear words.

The US cannot afford to back down and leave an ally alone in times of crisis. If America loses its creditable deterrence and commitment to defend Japan, the consequence followed would be destructive for the whole region. Other allies such as S Korea, Taiwan, Philippines and many others (Vietnam included) would draw drastic steps.

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## ShadowFaux

Gooo said:


> You mean like the ending to the Korean War?
> US is a paper tiger that only fights small countries.
> They have never defeated Russia or China in war.
> If you mess with us, we can impose maximum possible punishment on the US. US can destroy China but don't you ever think for one single second American mainland will be untouched. China has the firepower to cause absolutely MASSIVE damage to the United States. US won't be better off than China in any war.
> 
> You can take that to the bank son.



Stop being delusional. USA is still the only superpower in this planet. Yes you can hit USA with a few missiles but USA will invade your country and take it from you. It's the truth. And ya remember, don't compare yourselves to the cold-war USSR; you haven't reached that level yet son.

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## scherz

ShadowFaux said:


> Stop being delusional. USA is still the only superpower in this planet. Yes you can hit USA with a few missiles but USA will invade your country and take it from you. It's the truth. And ya remember, don't compare yourselves to the cold-war USSR; you haven't reached that level yet son.



If both engange into war it would end like Fallout3 in both countries...


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## Wright

True China has not even reached the projection capability of the Soviets, who also had a space station btw. 

Keep in mind the Soviets were half the US econimic size. Similar to where China is today.


----------



## shuttler

anon45 said:


> I have no doubts as to Chinese belief in their own claims, just as I have no doubt in Japanese belief in their own claims, but i'm making sure you have no doubts the US is going to get involved in a big and forceful way should this come to blows.



The ownership of the islands are spelt out in Potsdam Declaration and the Cairo declaration that we hvae the undisputed rights to Diaoyu Islands



> War with the US will not have a good ending for China, just keep that in mind, i'm under no illusions that a China we can work with would be infinitely of more benefit than a China that we are at war with and vice-versa for China, but our hands are tied, it is your country's choice, your decision for war or peace.



War is not good to all 3 parties.

It is US' choice: Peace or War!



anon45 said:


> Again, it is your decision for war or peace, if you choose war then we will fight.



Again. The ball is in the US court. Patrolling the area is our routine.



> If you believe the US is a paper tiger, I urge to you to reassess your thoughts, because you wager the future of your country, your community, your family, and yourself on that assumption.
> 
> We do not want war, but neither will we accept a tyrannical peace.



Then get the f*ck out of the mess created by the japanese



> Our countries have more to offer each other through trade, prosperity, and shared scientific pursuits than bombs and missiles, and shared pain and destruction, but it is ultimately your choice which path we take.



not on the pretext of giving up our sovereighnty



> China cannot attempt to take the *DIAOYU* Islands by force and remain at peace with the United States, it is your decision and your call, that is all.



Let's see who fires the first shot. USA have warned their dog not to fire tracer bullets nor any warning shots in the air over the islands. Keep the USA's hard rein on the imperial dog!



Wright said:


> True China has not even reached the projection capability of the Soviets, who also had a space station btw.
> 
> Keep in mind the Soviets were half the US econimic size. Similar to where China is today.



Did the USSR engaged in a war with the US? How did the USSR break up?

Comparing the USSR with China Today is meangingless.



ShadowFaux said:


> Stop being delusional. USA is still the only superpower in this planet. Yes you can hit USA with a few missiles but USA will invade your country and take it from you. It's the truth. And ya remember, don't compare yourselves to the cold-war USSR; you haven't reached that level yet son.



stop you drivels and mind your own business. You and many indians on board are not up to the level yet!


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## shuttler

*China stresses normal exchanges amid Japanese leader's visit
*
CNTV

BEIJING, Jan. 22 (Xinhua) -- A Foreign Ministry spokesman on Tuesday said China has conducted normal exchanges with Japanese parties hours after a Japanese political leader arrived in Beijing.

"China has long maintained normal communication and exchanges with Japan's ruling and opposition parties, as well as its non-governmental organizations," spokesman Hong Lei said at a daily press briefing.

Hong's comments came hours after Natsuo Yamaguchi, leader of the New Komeito party, the smaller of Japan's two ruling parties, arrived in Beijing.

Yamaguchi is the first senior member of the Japanese ruling bloc to travel to Beijing since the Japanese government announced that it would "purchase" part of the Diaoyu Islands in September, a move that contributed to the disintegration of bilateral relations.

When asked about China's expectations for his visit, Hong said the exchanges between China and Japan can "enhance bilateral communication, properly promote solutions for related issues and boost the development of bilateral relations."

Hong said the China-Japan Friendship Association is arranging Yamaguchi's visit.


----------



## Soryu

shuttler said:


> Then get the f*ck out of the mess created by the japanese
> not on the pretext of giving up our sovereighnty
> 
> Let's see who fires the first shot. USA have warned their dog not to fire tracer bullets nor any warning shots in the air over the islands. Keep the USA's hard rein on the imperial dog!


  _*10:50*_


----------



## shuttler

Soryu said:


> Japan Air Self-Defense Force



the best position for vietcongs or indian false flagging cheerleaders to eyewitness the fireworks upon the explosions of japanese fighter-jets is to sit inside of the cockpits of the plane and wait a few sec for our Luoyang PL-ASR's greetings!

Please accept our R.I.P. to you guys and the japanese pilots in the cockpits


----------



## Soryu

Your insult words and foul language show nothing but your arrogant and idiot, .
You say nothing but your mental orgasm and thought aggression to others, that why I had show you the truth that JASDF did it in past. They maybe do it at now if China pass the limit. Both side know it, kid, understand!? 


shuttler said:


> the best position for vietcongs or indian _*false flagging cheerleaders*_ to eyewitness the fireworks upon the explosions of japanese fighter-jets is to sit inside of the cockpits of the plane and wait a few sec for our Luoyang PL-ASR's greetings!
> 
> Please accept our R.I.P. to you guys and the japanese pilots in the cockpits


----------



## ShadowFaux

shuttler said:


> stop you drivels and mind your own business. You and many indians on board are not up to the level yet!


No, *YOU* are not upto the level. Restrainless bragging will get you nowhere.


----------



## anon45

shuttler said:


> The ownership of the islands are spelt out in Potsdam Declaration and the Cairo declaration that we hvae the undisputed rights to Diaoyu Islands


 It is not, as the islands are covered under 'such minor islands as we determine', and by any stretch of the word those islands were considered a minor island. China did not complain about them, not until large amounts of oil were speculated to be under them. China does not have a stronger legal claim than Japan.




shuttler said:


> War is not good to all 3 parties.


 So you agree?



shuttler said:


> It is US' choice: Peace or War!


As much as I wish it was, it is not, we are only a party to the brewing tensions, but we have no control over the islands themselves, they are not our sovereign territory.

We are bound by treaty to protect Japan and areas under Japanese administration from hostile actions, these islands are included. To not follow through would be detrimental to our core interests, i'm sure you understand the importance of core interests. Only Japan and China have the power to decide this dispute, and it is only China that can end the dispute.

Again, only China can decide to end the dispute, as China is the one that is currently messing with the status quo. Only China can choose peace or war, we can only react. 

Your choice.



shuttler said:


> Again. The ball is in the US court. Patrolling the area is our routine.



Your 'routine' is less than a year old, your argument is two-faced, self-serving, and lacks credibility due to this. 

Our treaty with Japan is about half a century old.



shuttler said:


> Then get the f*ck out of the mess created by the japanese



You know I could say the same to you, I could say 'stop warmongering, trying to f*ck the peace that the US and all others in the region have persevered so hard to build and preserve, and stop trying to kill your family in war!', but I won't because that is not how things work.

Our treaty is again half a century old, it is part and parcel of our cornerstone in global relations and our position in the world. To not follow through on our word in protecting the Senkaku from hostile attack would be detrimental to our core interests in not just the region, but globally.

Whether China misstepped or not, China has shown an overwhelming eagerness to make the mess bigger than it should be, keep the mess ongoing, and use it to push the region to war. At this point blaming Japan and Japan alone would be an act of utter dishonesty. China is also to blame for the rise in hostilities, and is more to blame for the continuance of this destabilizing dispute. 

Again, China is the only one that can control whether this dispute ends or not, because China is the one that is continuously and enthusiastically deepening it. I urge you to choose the path of peace, or at least limit your dispute to the realm of international arbitration, like the Philippines has recently done. 

We have no quarrel if China and Japan manage to solve the dispute without war.








shuttler said:


> not on the pretext of giving up our sovereignty



Again it is your choice. Your country has not had de-facto and arguably legal sovereignty over those islands for more than a hundred years, to claim it as integral to your sovereignty is just bad faith considering that fact. 

China had sovereignty over its borders 10 years ago, I think it did just fine without the fights over this.




shuttler said:


> Let's see who fires the first shot. USA have warned their dog not to fire tracer bullets nor any warning shots in the air over the islands. Keep the USA's hard rein on the imperial dog!


 There would be no potential for a first shot from either side if China did not deliberately escalate tensions, and the glee with which you speak of this makes it sound like you actually want war to happen, that you are a war-mongerer.

Japan is our ally and friend, we do not have control over their actions, but a treaty is a treaty, even an accidental shoot-down won't change what our duties are, because there are infinitely better options in response than no response or all out war, which seems to be what you advocate in response. An all out attack on the Senkaku's in that context would still be a hostile act.


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## Jose4Zhou

anon45 said:


> It is not, as the islands are covered under 'such minor islands as we determine', and by any stretch of the word those islands were considered a minor island. China did not complain about them, not until large amounts of oil were speculated to be under them. China does not have a stronger legal claim than Japan.



In fact it was claimed. In the allied Cairo Declaration, all the islands taken by Japan are return to china:
All the territories Japan has taken from China such as Manchuria (Dongbei), Formosa (Taiwan), and the Pescadores (Penghu), shall be restored to the Republic of China.
source&#65306;Cairo Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


later in Potsdam Declaration, items had been announced in the Cairo Declaration were included and Japan accepted Potsdam declaration.
source:Potsdam Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but later US took charge of Penghu and return it to japan in 1979. Diaoyu island is not a subsidiary island of Penghu, both china and japan accept this.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

anon45 said:


> *We are bound by treaty to protect Japan and areas under Japanese administration from hostile actions*, these islands are included. To not follow through would be detrimental to our core interests, i'm sure you understand the importance of core interests. Only Japan and China have the power to decide this dispute, and it is only China that can end the dispute.




Right...Bound by treaty , soon or later U.S will have answer itself how important it want to be on this world? sure there is potential contender to be the next global domination power, if any thing happens be sure U.S will never claim to be on the podium again.

...and infact It's not a bad thing that U.S to mess up with this Island issue, this will polish PLA brains to find counter-measures, otherwise their brains will get rusties and useless.


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## ahfatzia

*Foreign Ministry vows Taiwan won't back down on Diaoyutais*







_Foreign Minister David Lin speaks to reporters a Foreign Ministry press conference in Taipei, yesterday. Lin said the government will not back down on any sovereignty issue. ...
_


TAIPEI -- Foreign Minister David Lin said yesterday that the Diaoyutai Islands in the East China Sea are inherent territory of the Republic of China and added that the government will not back down on any sovereignty issue.

Lin's remarks came after tensions in the region escalated after U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton talked about Washington's policy toward the island group in a Jan. 18 news conference.

Clinton said the U.S. does not have a position on the ultimate sovereignty of the islands, but acknowledges that they are under the administration of Japan and opposes any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration.

Lin made clear that sovereignty is different from the administrative control over a territory.

He added that Clinton also said that the U.S. wants to see China and Japan resolve this matter peacefully through dialogue, indicating that the U.S. acknowledges the existence of the disputes over the island group and that it wishes for regional peace and stability, which is in line with the wishes of Taiwan.

As for Japan's administrative control over the Diaoyutais, Lin said Taiwan wishes to conduct negotiations with Japan over fishing rights in the disputed area. He added that the Foreign Ministry is still working on having a second round of preparatory fishery talks with Japan.

Lin made the remarks on the sidelines of the swearing-in ceremony for Taiwan's newly appointed representative to Bahrain, Paul Y.F. Hsu. 

On the much-anticipated resumption of Trade and Investment Framework Agreement talks between the U.S. and Taiwan, Lin said the talks will be resumed soon, and that his ministry will announce the timeline once it reaches a consensus with the U.S. 

Foreign Ministry vows Taiwan won't back down on Diaoyutais - The China Post


It's about time for Taiwan to get into the fray and that'll put a stink on Hilary face.

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## anon45

Jose4Zhou said:


> In fact it was claimed. In the allied Cairo Declaration, all the islands taken by Japan are return to china:
> All the territories Japan has taken from China such as Manchuria (Dongbei), Formosa (Taiwan), and the Pescadores (Penghu), shall be restored to the Republic of China.
> source&#65306;Cairo Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> later in Potsdam Declaration, items had been announced in the Cairo Declaration were included and Japan accepted Potsdam declaration.
> source:Potsdam Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> but later US took charge of Penghu and return it to japan in 1979. Diaoyu island is not a subsidiary island of Penghu, both china and japan accept this.



Those were what was taken during and after WW1, not before.


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## Jose4Zhou

anon45 said:


> Those were what was taken during and after WW1, not before.



U mean Diaoyu Island had been taken before WWI?


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## anon45

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Right...Bound by treaty ,


 Yes, bound by treaty, it isn't a laughing matter. Just because you and your country doesn't place value in treaties doesn't mean we don't place importance in treaties, especially when it is with a longstanding ally and friendly democratic nation.




Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> soon or later U.S will have answer itself how important it want to be on this world? sure there is potential contender to be the next global domination power, if any thing happens be sure U.S will never claim to be on the podium again.



The answer is of course the US is an important and integral country to the global economy. 





Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> ...and infact It's not a bad thing that U.S to mess up with this Island issue, this will polish PLA brains to find counter-measures, otherwise their brains will get rusties and useless.



It is in the end China's decision on whether war or peace will prevail, and by logical extension the blame for war will be China's to bear, along with all the suffering that will occur.

Rest assured the least of China's worries by the end will be the sovereignty of these tiny islands.



Jose4Zhou said:


> U mean Diaoyu Island had been taken before WWI?



Yes, they have been claimed prior to WW1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands

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## shuttler

anon45 said:


> Those were what was taken during and after WW1, not before.



Tell your adopted country to respect the 2 International Declarations in which your master was a signing party!


----------



## shuttler

anon45 said:


> It is not, as the islands are covered under 'such minor islands as we determine', and by any stretch of the word those islands were considered a minor island. China did not complain about them, not until large amounts of oil were speculated to be under them. China does not have a stronger legal claim than Japan.



We did not complain about it because: The islands are ours under historical evidence + the 2 International Declarations I mentioned + Deng Xiaoping's resolve to put the disputes temporrary aside

We have the undisputable claims to the Islands



> So you agree?



Silly comback! Bagging for our mercy!




> As much as I wish it was, it is not, we are only a party to the brewing tensions, but we have no control over the islands themselves, they are not our sovereign territory.



So get the f*ck out out here!



> We are bound by treaty to protect Japan and areas under Japanese administration from hostile actions, these islands are included. To not follow through would be detrimental to our core interests, i'm sure you understand the importance of core interests. Only Japan and China have the power to decide this dispute, and it is only China that can end the dispute.



You are not bound by the treaty more than you are asking for returns of favour from the japanese for widening your trade imports through sales of weapons, farm produce and the TPP



> Again, only China can decide to end the dispute, as China is the one that is currently messing with the status quo. Only China can choose peace or war, we can only react. Your choice.



It only takes 2 parties to dance. so get the f*** out yankies!





> Your 'routine' is less than a year old, your argument is two-faced, self-serving, and lacks credibility due to this.
> 
> Our treaty with Japan is about half a century old.



Our sovereignty is many many centuries old. Our routine partolling are commissioned when we are better equipped and in response to the japanese further provocation to "buy" the islands




> You know I could say the same to you, I could say 'stop warmongering, trying to f*ck the peace that the US and all others in the region have persevered so hard to build and preserve, and stop trying to kill your family in war!', but I won't because that is not how things work.



We love peace but we are not afraid of entering into a war!



> Our treaty is again half a century old, it is part and parcel of our cornerstone in global relations and our position in the world. To not follow through on our word in protecting the *DIAOYU* from hostile attack would be detrimental to our core interests in not just the region, but globally.



None of your adopted country's business. Get the f*ck out!



> Whether China misstepped or not, China has shown an overwhelming eagerness to make the mess bigger than it should be, keep the mess ongoing, and use it to push the region to war. At this point blaming Japan and Japan alone would be an act of utter dishonesty. China is also to blame for the rise in hostilities, and is more to blame for the continuance of this destabilizing dispute.
> 
> Again, China is the only one that can control whether this dispute ends or not, because China is the one that is continuously and enthusiastically deepening it. I urge you to choose the path of peace, or at least limit your dispute to the realm of international arbitration, like the Philippines has recently done.
> 
> We have no quarrel if China and Japan manage to solve the dispute without war.
> 
> Again it is your choice. Your country has not had de-facto and arguably legal sovereignty over those islands for more than a hundred years, to claim it as integral to your sovereignty is just bad faith considering that fact.
> 
> China had sovereignty over its borders 10 years ago, I think it did just fine without the fights over this.
> 
> There would be no potential for a first shot from either side if China did not deliberately escalate tensions, and the glee with which you speak of this makes it sound like you actually want war to happen, that you are a war-mongerer.
> 
> Japan is our ally and friend, we do not have control over their actions, but a treaty is a treaty, even an accidental shoot-down won't change what our duties are, because there are infinitely better options in response than no response or all out war, which seems to be what you advocate in response. An all out attack on the Senkaku's in that context would still be a hostile act.



You are drivelling all over the place flooding the most polluted holiest river and even with this massive deluge, you cant even identify the us+japanese are the provocateurs of all the debacle there!


----------



## shuttler

*Japanese envoy in Beijing to ease tensions
*
Updated: 2013-01-23 00:45 By ZHANG YUNBI in Beijing and CAI HONG in Tokyo ( China Daily)

Chinadaily

A leading member of the Japanese government arrived in Beijing on Tuesday in a bid to ease tension over the Diaoyu Islands.

Observers welcomed the envoy's arrival, but they said that Tokyo was maintaining its hard-line approach and, as if to prove the point, Japanese ministers reiterated their government's stance over the islands.

The head of the New Komeito Party, Natsuo Yamaguchi, said he hoped his visit to Beijing would open a channel of communication. 

New Komeito is a junior coalition partners of the Liberal Democratic Party. Yamaguchi confirmed that he has a written letter from Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe for Party chief Xi Jinping. No meeting has been confirmed.

Yamaguchi will meet with Tang Jiaxuan, former State councilor and current president of the China-Japan Friendship Association. 

A difference of opinion has emerged between the New Komeito and the LDP.

Before leaving Tokyo's Haneda Airport on Tuesday, Yamaguchi said that he did not discuss "shelving" the Diaoyu Islands issue when he met Abe. On Monday, Yamaguchi had suggested that the issue should be shelved for future generations to tackle.

His remarks prompted a furious response from the LDP. Shigeru Ishiba, the party's secretary-general blasted his idea as groundless and said the Japanese government has not accepted the idea of "shelving".

Wang Xinsheng, a professor of Japanese studies at Peking University, said hard-line voices, like Ishiba, prevail but others are seeking to resolve the crisis.

*In September, the Japanese government illegally "purchased" part of the Diaoyu Islands, which have belonged to China for centuries.*

Yamaguchi was a "welcomed" guest of Beijing, said Wang Ping, a researcher on Japanese studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said communication was important in easing tension.

Wang said that while the New Komeito Party does have an influential role in Japan, the LDP dominates the Cabinet and has adopted a far harsher stance on the islands than New Komeito. Liu Jiangyong, a specialist on Japanese studies and the deputy dean of the Institute of Modern International Relations at Tsinghua University said that the attitude of the LDP will be crucial.

Yamaguchi said he agreed with his government's stance of denying that there was any dispute over the islands.

Yoshihide Suga, Japan's chief cabinet secretary, hailed Yamaguchi for agreeing with the government's position.

Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida echoed Suga's viewpoint and said Yamaguchi "knows the Japanese government's stance", Japan's Nikkei Business Daily newspaper reported.

"Tokyo's recognition of the dispute is widely viewed as a precondition for talks regarding the issue," said Zang Zhijun, a professor on Japanese studies at Fudan University in Shanghai.

Wang, the academy specialist, said Abe is following a dual-track approach; acting unilaterally to appear strong at home while appearing to keep a dialogue open with Beijing. Yamaguchi is the latest in a number of prominent Japanese politicians to have visited China recently. According to Kyodo News Agency, former Japanese prime minister Tomiichi Murayama will visit China from Jan 28 to 31.

_Contact the writers at zhangyunbi@chinadaily.com.cn
Zhou Wa in Beijing contributed to this story.
_

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## Vitchilo

Japan Detains Chinese Fishing Boat | Zero Hedge


> Japan Detains Chinese Fishing Boat


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## anon45

shuttler said:


> We did not complain about it because: The islands are ours under historical evidence + the 2 International Declarations I mentioned + Deng Xiaoping's resolve to put the disputes temporrary aside
> 
> We have the undisputable claims to the Islands
> 
> 
> 
> Silly comback! Bagging for our mercy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So get the f*ck out out here!
> 
> 
> 
> You are not bound by the treaty more than you are asking for returns of favour from the japanese for widening your trade imports through sales of weapons, farm produce and the TPP
> 
> 
> 
> It only takes 2 parties to dance. so get the f*** out yankies!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our sovereignty is many many centuries old. Our routine partolling are commissioned when we are better equipped and in response to the japanese further provocation to "buy" the islands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We love peace but we are not afraid of entering into a war!
> 
> 
> 
> None of your adopted country's business. Get the f*ck out!
> 
> 
> 
> You are drivelling all over the place flooding the most polluted holiest river and even with this massive deluge, you cant even identify the us+japanese are the provocateurs of all the debacle there!



Woah almost got into another circular dispute and mindless name calling, I won't bother to stoop to your level, so I will again reiterate my main point.

We are bound by treaty to protect Japan from Chinese aggression. If China should try to take this territory by force, the US will have no choice but to respond.

China cannot remain at peace with the US and attempt to invade the Senkaku islands, it is China's and your decision whether peace or war is preferable, whether the suffering of your family is preferable to peace and prosperity. 

You are the one that holds the trigger to your head, do you really want to pull it for a chance to see the world burn?


----------



## shuttler

> On July 26,* the United States, Britain and **China* *released the Potsdam Declaration* announcing the terms for Japan's surrender, with the warning, "We will not deviate from them. There are no alternatives. We shall brook no delay." For Japan, the terms of the declaration specified:
> 
> the elimination "for all time [of] the authority and influence of those who have deceived and misled the people of Japan into embarking on world conquest"
> 
> the occupation of "points in Japanese territory to be designated by the Allies"
> 
> *"Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine." As had been announced in the Cairo Declaration in 1943.
> *
> 
> "*The Japanese military forces shall be completely disarmed*"
> 
> "stern justice shall be meted out to all war criminals, including those who have visited cruelties upon our prisoners"



Potsdam Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





> The main points of the document were:
> 
> The Allies are not fighting Japan for their own territorial expansion.
> 
> The Allies are resolved to bring unrelenting military pressure against Japan until it agrees to unconditional surrender.
> 
> *Japan shall be stripped of all islands she has seized or occupied in the Pacific since the beginning of World War I in 1914.
> All the territories Japan has taken from China such as Manchuria (Dongbei), Formosa (Taiwan), and the Pescadores (Penghu), shall be restored to the Republic of China.*
> 
> The Allies are determined that Korea shall become free and independent.
> 
> *Japan will also be expelled from all other territories which she has taken by violence and greed.*



Cairo Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## shuttler

*Taiwan, Japan ships confront near Diaoyu Islands*

Updated: 2013-01-24 18:39 ( Xinhua) 

Chinadaily


TAIPEI - The fishing vessel of a group of activists from Taiwan was obstructed on Thursday by Japanese coast guard ships in the waters surrounding the Diaoyu Islands, but failed to make a landing.







_An aerial view shows a Japan Coast Guard patrol ship (R) spraying water at a fishing boat (L) that is carrying Taiwan's activists on board about 32 km (20 miles) west-southwest of the Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea, in this picture released by the Japan Coast Guard's 11th Regional Coast Guard headquarters January 24, 2013.[Photo/Agencies]
_

Named "Happy Family" and protected by four coast guard ships of Taiwan, the fishing vessel departed from Taiwan's New Taipei City early Thursday morning, Wang Chung-yi, deputy chief of Taiwan's coast guard authority, said at a press briefing Thursday afternoon.

The vessel confronted eight Japanese coast guard ships in the waters about 28 nautical miles southwest of the Diaoyu Islands at about 9:40 am (Beijing Time), according to Wang.

Japanese ships obstructed the vessel by making waves and emitting black smoke, and later spraying water toward it. Taiwan's coast guard ships responded with water spray, LED signals and used an audio amplifier warning the Japanese from obstructing the navigation of the vessel.

All the ships arrived at the waters about 17 nautical miles southwest of the Diaoyu Islands, and the fishing vessel began to return. Taiwan's coast guard authority estimated that it would arrive in New Taipei at 7 pm.

Taiwan will firmly safeguard the interests and rights of ships fishing around the waters of the Diaoyu Islands, and protect vessels no matter where they are, Wang said.

The fishing vessel has seven people onboard, including several well-known non-governmental activists, one captain and an Indonesian worker.

The activists planned to declare sovereignty over the island, and take onto it a statue of Matsu, the Chinese indigenous goddess of the sea protecting fishermen and sailors.

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## terranMarine

Finally some patriotic Taiwanese brothers taking some action again. More frequent boats heading that way and claim back the island in a peaceful strike.


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## SenLin

*U.N. to consider validity of China's claim over disputed islands*

_The United Nations is planning to consider later this year the scientific validity of a claim by China that a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea are part of its territory, although Japan says the world body should not be involved._


Full Text: U.N. to consider validity of China's claim over disputed islands | Reuters


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## grandmaster

terranMarine said:


> Finally some patriotic Taiwanese brothers taking some action again. More frequent boats heading that way and claim back the island in a peaceful strike.


 
taiwan and mainland should work together. dont let japanese take advantage of taiwan-mainland rift!


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## anon45

shuttler said:


> Potsdam Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cairo Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




You have illustrated why these documents do not support China's claim, thank you.



SenLin said:


> *U.N. to consider validity of China's claim over disputed islands*
> 
> _The United Nations is planning to consider later this year the scientific validity of a claim by China that a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea are part of its territory, although Japan says the world body should not be involved._
> 
> 
> 
> Full Text: U.N. to consider validity of China's claim over disputed islands | Reuters



Sounds good, I'll be interested in learning the results.


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## shuttler

anon45 said:


> You have illustrated why these documents do not support China's claim, thank you.
> 
> Sounds good, I'll be interested in learning the results.



We dont take opinions of indians seriously regardless of the flags. They are not part of the equation.


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## anon45

shuttler said:


> We dont take opinions of indians seriously regardless of the flags. They are not part of the equation.



That's unfortunate, and prejudiced, but aside from the worrying national prejudice overtones I don't see why that is related to what I'm saying.


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## shuttler

*&#26085;&#26412;&#24033;&#35270;&#33337;&#29992;&#27700;&#28846;&#25915;&#20987;&#21488;&#28286;&#20445;&#38035;&#33337;

Japanese patrol boats with water cannons to attack Taiwan Diaoyu Islands boat
*

2013&#24180;01&#26376;24&#26085;14:23 &#20013;&#22269;&#26032;&#38395;&#32593; 

news.sina.com.cn






_&#26085;&#26412;&#12298;&#26397;&#26085;&#26032;&#38395;&#12299;&#65292;&#21271;&#20140;&#26102;&#38388;10&#26102;45&#20998;&#65292;&#26085;&#26412;&#28023;&#19978;&#20445;&#23433;&#21381;8&#33368;&#24033;&#35270;&#33337;&#23545;&#20445;&#38035;&#33337;&#20840;&#23478;&#31119;&#21495;&#21644;&#25252;&#36865;&#35813;&#33337;&#30340;&#21488;&#28286; &#28023;&#24033;&#32626;&#24033;&#36923;&#33337;&#23637;&#24320;&#27700;&#28846;&#25915;&#20987;&#12290;&#20174;&#29031;&#29255;&#19978;&#21487;&#35265;&#65292;&#21488;&#28286;&#24033;&#36923;&#33337;&#20063;&#20351;&#29992;&#27700;&#28846;&#23545;&#26085;&#26412;&#33337;&#21482;&#36827;&#34892;&#22238;&#20987;&#12290;

Taiwan Japan, "Asahi Shimbun", Beijing 10 45 points, 8 of the Japan Coast Guard patrol ship to Diaoyu Islands boat "family portrait" and escort the ship, "Coast Guard patrol boats to expand water cannon attack. Can see from the pictures, the Taiwan patrol boat also used water cannons to fight back the Japanese vessel.
_



&#20013;&#26032;&#32593;1&#26376;24&#26085;&#30005; &#32508;&#21512;&#25253;&#36947;&#65292;&#26085;&#26412;&#31532;11&#31649;&#21306;&#28023;&#19978;&#20445;&#23433;&#24635;&#37096;(&#37027;&#38712&#31216;&#65292;&#24403;&#22320;&#26102;&#38388;24&#26085;&#19978;&#21320;11&#28857;05&#20998;&#24038;&#21491;&#65292;&#19968;&#33368;&#36733;&#26377;&#21488;&#28286;&#20013; &#21326;&#20445;&#38035;&#21327;&#20250;&#25104;&#21592;&#31561;&#30340;&#28180;&#33337;&#39542;&#20837;&#20102;&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#38468;&#36817;&#28023;&#22495;&#12290;&#26085;&#26412;&#28023;&#20445;&#21381;&#24033;&#36923;&#33337;&#29992;&#26080;&#32447;&#30005;&#21457;&#20986;&#35686;&#21578;&#24182;&#21521;&#28180;&#33337;&#21457;&#23556;&#20102;&#27700;&#28846;&#65292;&#21488; &#28286;&#24033;&#36923;&#33337;&#20063;&#20351;&#29992;&#27700;&#28846;&#23545;&#26085;&#26412;&#33337;&#21482;&#36827;&#34892;&#20102;&#22238;&#20987;&#65292;&#30446;&#21069;&#35813;&#20445;&#38035;&#33337;&#24050;&#36820;&#33322;&#12290;

&#12288;&#12288;&#21488;&#28286;&#20013;&#21326;&#20445;&#38035;&#21327;&#20250;&#21644;&#19990;&#30028;&#21326;&#20154;&#20445;&#38035;&#32852;&#30431;&#31561;7&#20154;&#65292;24&#26085;&#20940;&#26216;&#39550;&#39542;&#19968;&#33368;&#20445;&#38035;&#33337;&#65292;&#20174;&#21488;&#28286;&#21271;&#37096;&#30340;&#28145;&#28595;&#28180;&#28207;&#20986;&#21457;&#65292;&#21069; &#24448;&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#23459;&#31034;&#20027;&#26435;&#12290;&#21488;&#28286;&#28023;&#23736;&#24033;&#38450;&#32626;&#20026;&#27492;&#27966;&#20986;&#24033;&#38450;&#33337;&#20026;&#36825;&#33368;&#20445;&#38035;&#33337;&#25252;&#33322;&#12290;

&#12288;&#12288;&#25454;&#26085;&#26412;&#23186;&#20307;&#25253;&#36947;&#65292;&#24403;&#22825;&#65292;&#26085;&#26412;&#28023;&#19978;&#20445;&#23433;&#21381;&#31532;11&#31649;&#21306;&#28023;&#19978;&#20445;&#23433;&#26412;&#37096;&#36824;&#22312;&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#38468;&#36817;&#36830;&#25509;&#28023;&#22495;&#21457;&#29616;&#20102;3&#33368;&#20013;&#22269;&#28023; &#27915;&#30417;&#35270;&#33337;&#12290;

BEIJING, Jan. 24 roundup, Japan 11 Coast Guard headquarters (Naha), local time at 11:05 on the 24th or so, a boat carrying members of the Taiwan Association of Chinese Diaoyu Islands "fishing vesselrolled into the waters near the Diaoyu Islands. Sea of &#8203;&#8203;Japan Paul Hall patrol boat radio warning and fishing boats fired water cannons, Taiwan patrol boat also use water cannon on the Japanese ship has fought back, the Diaoyu Islands vessel has already returning.

The Taiwan and China of the Diaoyutai Association and the World Chinese Diaoyu Islands Union 7, 24 am driving a Diaoyu Islands boat from Taiwan the northern shenao fishing port of departure to the Diaoyu Islands to proclaim sovereignty. Taiwan's Coast Guard Administration sent a patrol boat for escort ship Diaoyu Islands boat.

According to Japanese media reports, the day, the Japan Coast Guard District 11 Coast Guard Headquarters connected still near the Diaoyu Islands waters found that the three Chinese marine surveillance ship.

Google translation

***************

Previous attack by the japanese coast guards on Taiwanese ships in Diaoyu Islands waters


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## Plexyre

I have to admit, the PRC submitting the Diaoyu claim to the U.N. comes as a surprise, considering some of their other territorial disputes (though that's a story for another topic). The U.N. is planning to consider the case in the summer (around 6 months from now).



anon45 said:


> You have illustrated why these documents do not support China's claim, thank you.



Why not? Please elaborate. In all fairness I am interested in hearing you out.


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## beijingwalker

China's Incoming Leader Pledges Not to Bargain on Disputed Territory
New York Times
By CHRIS BUCKLEY
Published: January 29, 2013 



> HONG KONG  China will never bargain over what it deems to be core territorial and security interests, the countrys top leader, Xi Jinping, said in his first published speech setting out his foreign policy views since taking over as head of the Communist Party.
> 
> At a time of volatile tensions with Japan and other Asian neighbors over rival maritime claims, Mr. Xi laid out to the Communist Partys elite Politburo some of the principles likely to shape Chinese diplomacy, seeking to balance vows of commitment to peace with a warning that certain demands are sacrosanct to Beijing.
> 
> At the heart of that message was Mr. Xis invocation of core national interests, a sweeping and ill-defined term that he and other senior Chinese officials have used to refer to security and sovereignty interests that they say are not negotiable. These include quelling independence movements in Tibet and the far western region of Xinjiang and eventually bringing the island of Taiwan under Chinese sovereignty.
> 
> *No foreign country should ever nurse hopes that we will bargain over our core national interests,* Mr. Xi said at the meeting on Monday, according to an account published on Tuesday by the state-run Xinhua news agency. Nor should they nurse hopes that we will swallow the bitter fruit of harm to our countrys sovereignty, security and development interests.
> 
> His published comments did not mention Chinas quarrel with Japan over an outcrop of rocky islands in the East China Sea, or any other specific foreign policy issues. But his words could reinforce nationalist expectations in China and anxieties abroad that he will press territorial claims more determinedly than did his predecessor, Hu Jintao. Mr. Hu remains state president until March, when the national parliament will install Mr. Xi in that post.
> 
> Yes, its a tougher policy, saying that were not trading our core interests, said Shen Dingli, director of the Center for American Studies at Fudan University in Shanghai.
> 
> Mr. Xis comments were in the bounds of established Chinese policy, but he appears more willing than his predecessors to show an assertive position on territorial issues, said Jin Canrong, a professor of international relations at Renmin University in Beijing.
> 
> These are the basic principles, just stated more clearly, Mr. Jin said. Now Chinas strength is greater and domestic audiences are more focused on foreign policy, hence the talk of resolute protection.
> 
> During a visit to the United States a year ago, Mr. Xi also demanded respect for Chinas core national interests. There has been controversy in Chinese policy circles in recent years over how to define core interests beyond the specific territorial issues involving Tibet, Xinjiang and Taiwan. Starting in 2009, some senior officials began pressing a definition of those interests that covered broader territorial claims, while some policy advisers argued that expanding the concept could entangle Beijing in needless and costly disputes.
> 
> The months before and since Mr. Xi was appointed Communist Party leader in November have been overshadowed by the feud between China and Japan over the East China Sea islands, known as Diaoyu in China and Senkaku in Japan. Starting in August and continuing for several weeks, torrid and sometimes violent protests spread across dozens of Chinese cities after activists from both sides tried to land on the islands and the Japanese government responded to the dispute by buying islands that were in private Japanese hands.
> 
> Japan has held the islands for more than a century. But China says it has legitimate title to them, and recently has sent government ships and planes to skirt the islands and assert its claim. This month, tensions spiked when both countries sent fighter jets over the East China Sea at the same time.
> 
> China is also locked in disputes with Southeast Asian countries, especially the Philippines and Vietnam, over Beijings territorial claims in the South China Sea that span busy shipping lanes, fishing grounds and potentially valuable gas and oil reserves.
> 
> Mr. Xi, who is 59 and considered likely to lead China for the next decade, has urged Chinese military forces to focus on training for possible conflict and stamp out lax discipline and corruption.

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## indian_foxhound

Japan coast guard says detains Chinese fishing boat near Okinawa - Yahoo! News







SHANGHAI (Reuters) - Japan's coast guard
detained a Chinese fishing boat near the southern
Japanese island of Okinawa on Saturday and
arrested the captain for collecting coral illegally, a
coast guard official said. The vessel was detained off Miyako Island, some
150 km (95 miles) from islands in the East China
Sea at the centre of a territorial dispute between
the two countries, and about 400 km (250 miles)
east of Taipei. A long-simmering row over the East China Sea
islands, known as the Senkaku in Japan and the
Diaoyu in China, has in recent months escalated to
the point where both sides have scrambled
fighter jets while patrol ships shadow each other
in nearby seas. In September 2010, the arrest of a Chinese
trawler captain by the Japanese coast guard near
the disputed islands triggered a barrage of strong
words from Beijing and protests in front of
Japanese diplomatic missions. The Japanese coast guard official said on Saturday
the captain of the boat was arrested for alleged
violation of Japanese law to protect the country's
Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) from unauthorized
fishing. The vessel was found collecting coral inside the
EEZ, 46 km east-northeast of Miyako island, east of
Ishigaki, the official said. The boat and crew of 12 people were being
taken to Miyako island. China's official Xinhua news agency, quoting the
Chinese Consulate General in the city of Fukuoka,
said the vessel had been detained for "alleged
unauthorized coral fishing". "The consulate has urged the Japanese side to
ensure the safety of the Chinese sailors and will
visit the captain when he arrives at Miyako,"
Xinhua reported.


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## beijingwalker

not around Dioayudao?ok,that's not where the dispute lies.


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## indian_foxhound

Japan's PM vows to defend islands from China - Indian Express






Japan's prime minister has vowed to defend
disputed remote islands from escalating threat
from China. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe called on
Japan's Self-Defense Forces on southern Japan on
Saturday, saying the disputed islands in the East
China Sea are under increasing threat. Abe said he will defend them ''at all costs.'' The
uninhabited islands are controlled by Japan but
also claimed by China. Japan's nationalization of the
islands in September triggered violent protests
across China, hurting Japanese companies there
and the economy. China has sent surveillance ships regularly to
waters near the islands, and aircraft from the two
sides have trailed each other, raising the risk of
missteps that could trigger a clash. Japan has recently launched diplomatic efforts to
ease tensions, with China-friendly officials visiting
Beijing for

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## beijingwalker

nothing new,that's the official stance of both sides,why still posting,lol


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## Zero_wing

This good development


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## Zero_wing

And that's how it should be done!


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## 帅的一匹

There is no place called Okinawa in this planet. Its real name is &#29705;&#29699;&#65292; which belongs to China and occupied by Japanese by force hundred years ago. Recently people livin on the island practicing traditinal Chinese culture and way of living .
Time to take back &#29705;&#29699; from Japanese devil's hand. Why Filipinos clown jump upside and down in this thread? When you back at Huang Yan Island? May be never.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Shinzo Abe will step down at the end of year, my word!

His grandpa is a Japanese Nazi. What you gonna expect from a grandson of a Nazi? Brutal stupid!


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## Zero_wing

Sir that's a monkey get your insult right? See can't even do that properly! man ignorance is bless as they say.


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## Viet

wanglaokan said:


> There is no place called Okinawa in this planet. Its real name is &#29705;&#29699;&#65292; which belongs to China and occupied by Japanese by force hundred years ago. Recently people livin on the island practicing traditinal Chinese culture and way of living .


You are joking. The fact that Okinawa was influenced by Chinese cultures does not make it to a Chinese land.


wanglaokan said:


> Time to take back &#29705;&#29699; from Japanese devil's hand.


How?


wanglaokan said:


> Why Filipinos clown jump upside and down in this thread? When you back at Huang Yan Island? May be never.


This thread is Chinese exclusively, really? Philippines is taking you to an international court amid the islands dispute.

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## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Sir that's a monkey get your insult right? See can't even do that properly! man ignorance is bless as they say.



This thread is about Japan and China. Not us.



Viet said:


> You are joking. The fact that Okinawa was influenced by Chinese cultures does not make it to a Chinese land.
> 
> How?
> 
> This thread is Chinese exclusively, really? Philippines is taking you to an international court amid the islands dispute.



How is Vietnam part of this.


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## Zero_wing

Their is no us chinese! stop using my country's flag. gago ka pala hindi ka na man pilipino wag na wag gagamitin ng watawat nami tang ina mo!


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## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Their is no us chinese! stop using my country's flag. gago ka pala hindi ka na man pilipino wag na wag gagamitin ng watawat nami tang ina mo!



I'm not even Chinese. Call me Chinese I call you Vietnamese. We are from the same nation but different opinions.


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## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> I'm not even Chinese. Call me Chinese I call you Vietnamese. We are from the same nation but different opinions.



Ewan ko sayo kung away mo magsabi ng totoo hinidi ko na problema yun!


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## WuMaoCleverbot

indian_foxhound said:


> Japan coast guard says detains Chinese fishing boat near Okinawa - Yahoo! News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SHANGHAI (Reuters) - Japan's coast guard
> detained a Chinese fishing boat near the southern
> Japanese island of Okinawa on Saturday and
> arrested the captain for collecting coral illegally, a
> coast guard official said. The vessel was detained off Miyako Island, some
> 150 km (95 miles) from islands in the East China
> Sea at the centre of a territorial dispute between
> the two countries, and about 400 km (250 miles)
> east of Taipei. A long-simmering row over the East China Sea
> islands, known as the Senkaku in Japan and the
> Diaoyu in China, has in recent months escalated to
> the point where both sides have scrambled
> fighter jets while patrol ships shadow each other
> in nearby seas. In September 2010, the arrest of a Chinese
> trawler captain by the Japanese coast guard near
> the disputed islands triggered a barrage of strong
> words from Beijing and protests in front of
> Japanese diplomatic missions. The Japanese coast guard official said on Saturday
> the captain of the boat was arrested for alleged
> violation of Japanese law to protect the country's
> Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) from unauthorized
> fishing. The vessel was found collecting coral inside the
> EEZ, 46 km east-northeast of Miyako island, east of
> Ishigaki, the official said. The boat and crew of 12 people were being
> taken to Miyako island. China's official Xinhua news agency, quoting the
> Chinese Consulate General in the city of Fukuoka,
> said the vessel had been detained for *"alleged
> unauthorized coral fishing".* "The consulate has urged the Japanese side to
> ensure the safety of the Chinese sailors and will
> visit the captain when he arrives at Miyako,"
> Xinhua reported.



Is it legally allowed in China the harvesting of corals by Chinese fishermen??? Do you not have any law banning the harvesting and destruction of corals???


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## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Ewan ko sayo kung away mo magsabi ng totoo hinidi ko na problema yun!



Yes, it's not your problem, but I'm Filipino like you but I have different perception of China. I see them as a neighbor with some foreign relation problems.


----------



## third eye

BBC News - Japan protest over China ship's radar action

A Chinese vessel has locked its weapon-targeting radar on a Japanese ship, Tokyo says, amid mounting tensions over a territorial row.

Japanese Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera said the incident happened on 30 January near islands claimed by both nations in the East China Sea.

He said this prompted Tokyo to lodge a formal protest with Beijing on Tuesday.

The row, over islands known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, has escalated in recent months.

'Dangerous situation'

"On 30 January, something like fire-control radar was directed at a Japan Self-Defence Maritime escort ship in the East China Sea," Mr Onodera told reporters on Tuesday.

The minister added that a Japanese military helicopter was also targeted with a similar radar a few days earlier.

"Directing such radar is very abnormal. We recognise it would create a very dangerous situation if a single misstep occurred," he said.

The dispute over their ownership of the islands has been rumbling for years, but it reignited in 2012 when the Japanese government purchased three of the islands from their private, Japanese owner.

The eight uninhabited islands and rocks lie close to strategically important shipping lanes, offer rich fishing grounds and are thought to contain oil deposits.

Also on Tuesday, the Chinese ambassador to Japan rebuffed an earlier protest over continuing Chinese patrols off the disputed islands, according to China's state-run Xinhua news agency.

Ambassador Cheng Yonghua stressed that the islands were China's inherent territory as well as the surrounding waters.

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## djsjs

Chinese Marine Surveillance Ships VS  Japanese warship
Chinese vessel has locked its weapon-targeting radar on Japanese ship and ready to fire high-pressure water cannon


CLASSIC

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## Sanchez

Indians are confused...


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## ashok321

Its just a scarring tactics, kind of psychological subterfuge to show China is aggressive and can do it if the need be.

But, just by illuminating enemy targets and not pressing the hot button (shooting them) is akin to barking dogs who dont bite......

Japan has a trillion dollar investment in China!
Its no peanuts.

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## Viet

djsjs said:


> Chinese Marine Surveillance Ships VS  Japanese warship
> Chinese vessel has locked its weapon-targeting radar on Japanese ship and ready to fire high-pressure water cannon



The article says: "A Chinese navy frigate has locked its weapon-targeting radar on a Japanese Maritime escort ship". It is comparable like someone points the gun toward you.

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## northeast

ashok321 said:


> Its just a scarring tactics, kind of psychological subterfuge to show China is aggressive and can do it if the need be.
> 
> But, just by illuminating enemy targets and not pressing the hot button (shooting them) is akin to barking dogs who dont bite......
> 
> Japan has a trillion dollar investment in China!
> Its no peanuts.



I think it's a strategy be planned to take the diaoyudao step by step.
You can see the situation is getting warmer and warmer in the latset year by a stable process.


----------



## ashok321

northeast said:


> I think it's a strategy be planned to take the diaoyudao step by step.



Japan has been under nuclear umbrella protection by US who has its strategy too to work with this situation step by step.....

There is a crime, there is a Police!

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## northeast

ashok321 said:


> Japan has been under nuclear umbrella protection by US who has its strategy too to work with this situation step by step.....
> 
> There is a crime, there is a Police!


yeah, but your US papa aren't almighty god.We have taken sevaral islands near philippine in the latest years,and what have your yankee papa done to us&#65311;Nothing.We have taken your aksai chin in 1960s,and what did they do in helping you?

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## ashok321

northeast said:


> yeah, but your US papa aren't almighty god.We have taken sevaral islands near philippine in the latest years,and what have your yankee papa done to us&#65311;Nothing.We have taken your aksai chin in 1960s,and what did they do in helping you?



Philiipines is not under US nuclear umbrella first of all. And Aksai Chin was given to you by Pakistan in a quid pro quo fashion.

And please stop this false bravado because despite all the loose talk of wrestling Taiwan back to its mainland has NEVER materialised so far despite how many decades?

You are boxing in the air comrade....

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## northeast

ashok321 said:


> Philiipines is not under US nuclear umbrella first of all. And Aksai Chin was given to you by Pakistan in a quid pro quo fashion.
> 
> And please stop this false bravado because despite all the loose talk of wrestling Taiwan back to its mainland has NEVER materialised so far despite how many decades?
> 
> You are boxing in the air comrade....



hehe,nuclear or not,nobody is going to nuke anybody.how stupid you are.

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## third eye

Sanchez said:


> Indians are confused...



Get well soon.

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## djsjs

Viet said:


> The article says: "A Chinese navy frigate has locked its weapon-targeting radar on a Japanese Maritime escort ship". It is comparable like someone points the gun toward you.


the left one ----112 &#22805;&#31435; displacement &#65306; 5100 tons


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## ashok321

northeast said:


> hehe,nuclear or not,nobody is going to nuke anybody.how stupid you are.



Its a deterence that Phillipine did not have.......
BTW if no one is going to nuke no one, then why you are building more of them?
And you never replied about the following:



> And please stop this false bravado because despite all the loose talk of wrestling Taiwan back to its mainland has NEVER materialised so far despite how many decades?
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/233342-china-locks-radar-jap-ship-2.html#ixzz2K2aNKYP9

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## GR!FF!N

Good going..we'll soon find out what is the capability of those "futuristic" chinese weapons...and a war on pacific will ring doom for china(as nobody is supporting their stand,their stand is clearly against UNCLOS).China is just helping to create an "ASIAN NATO" against it by itself.


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## Soryu

well, That's dangerous and hard move made by PRC, don't play too much...

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## Aegis DDG

Soryu said:


> well, That's dangerous and hard move made by PRC, don't play too much...



I hope they do. It will be the end of Chicom regime!

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## yusheng

1&#26376;30&#26085;&#26159;522&#33328;&#65292;&#21521;&#22805;&#31435;&#21495;&#29031;&#23556;&#12290;
Jan 30, China 522 locked Jap 112









1&#26376;19&#26085;&#26159;526&#33328;&#65292;&#21521;&#22823;&#27874;&#21495;&#30340;&#33328;&#36733;&#30452;&#21319;&#26426;&#29031;&#23556;&#12290;

Jan 19, China 526 locked Jap helicopter






522 and 526 are old ship in Chinese fleet , see what will happen next , game 2.0 came.


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## faithfulguy

Jose4Zhou said:


> U mean Diaoyu Island had been taken before WWI?



This island was taken by Japan during the invasion of Taiwan after Sino-Japanese war in 1895. Prior to that, this island was not Japanese territory.


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> the left one ----112 &#22805;&#31435; displacement &#65306; 5100 tons


are they destroyers?


----------



## Viet

*Japan's Abe condemns China radar-lock as &#8216;provocative&#8217;*

Wednesday, 06 February, 2013, 10:55am
Agence France-Presse in Tokyo






_Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe (right) answers questions in parliament on Wednesday. Photos: AFP_


The radar-lock that a Chinese frigate put on a Japanese warship was &#8220;dangerous&#8221; and &#8220;provocative&#8221;, Japan&#8217;s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said on Wednesday, as tensions in a territorial row ratcheted up.
*
&#8220;It was a dangerous act that could have led to an unpredictable situation,&#8221; Abe told parliament. &#8220;It is extremely regrettable. We strongly ask for their self-restraint in order to avoid an unnecessary escalation.&#8221;*

The hawkish prime minister, who took office late December following a landslide win in elections, described the radar-locking as &#8220;unilateral provocative action by the Chinese side&#8221;.

Abe&#8217;s comments come a day after Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera announced weapon-targeting radar had been directed at the Japanese vessel in international waters of the East China Sea last week.

The move marks the first time the two nations&#8217; navies have locked horns in a dispute that has some commentators warning about a possible armed conflict.

*US State Department spokeswoman* Victoria Nuland said Washington was &#8220;concerned&#8221; over the incident.

&#8220;With regard to the reports of this particular lock-on incident, actions such as this escalate tensions and increase the risk of an incident or a miscalculation, and they could undermine peace, stability and economic growth in this vital region,&#8221; she said.

Onodera said a Japanese military helicopter was also locked with a similar radar on January 19.

Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Katsunobu Kato told a news conference that* Tokyo lodged a protest against Beijing* over the radar-locking on Tuesday and asked for an explanation, but was yet to receive any reply.

Radar is used to precisely determine a target&#8217;s distance, direction, speed and altitude. *Weapon systems linked to the radar can be fired immediately, Japan&#8217;s government said.*

The move is a ratcheting-up of an already tense situation in the East China Sea, where Asia&#8217;s two largest economies are at loggerheads over the sovereignty of an uninhabited island chain.

On Tuesday Tokyo summoned China&#8217;s envoy in protest at the presence a day earlier of Chinese government &#8211; but not military &#8211; ships in the waters around the Tokyo-controlled Senkakus, which Beijing claims as the Diaoyus.

*Beijing *has repeatedly sent ships to the area since Japan nationalised some islands in the chain in September. The move triggered a diplomatic dispute and huge anti-Japan demonstrations across China.

Beijing has also sent air patrols to the archipelago and recently both Beijing and Tokyo have scrambled fighter jets, though there have been no clashes.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> are they destroyers?


They are of course !??? 
JMSDF call that, bro!

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## Princess

The funny reality is 

US/JAPAN has already did that sort of things 100+ times before to PLA


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## Viet

Soryu said:


> They are of course !???
> JMSDF call that, bro!


Nope, the Japanese called a Chinese frigate targeting their naval vessel. A destroyer is larger and mightier than a frigate, as far as I know.



Princess said:


> The funny reality is
> US/JAPAN has already did that sort of things 100+ times before to PLA


in military exercises US/JAPAN, not compareable to what you did.

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## JSCh

> Abes comments come a day after Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera announced weapon-targeting radar had been directed at the *Japanese vessel in international waters of the East China Sea last week.*





> "On 30 January, something like fire-control radar was directed at a *Japan Self-Defence Maritime escort ship* in the East China Sea," Mr Onodera told reporters on Tuesday.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/223260-diaoyu-islands-news-updates-26.html#ixzz2K6WV70Hg





> BEIJING: Japan has complained to China that it targeted a Japanese maritime escort ship using a fire-controlled radar on January 30.
> 
> The radar targeting by a Chinese frigate follows months of acrimonious shadow boxing by politicians of the two countries quarreling over ownership of the Diaoyu islands.
> 
> Japanese defence minister Itsunori Onodera said his government has lodged a formal protest with China on the matter. Observers said such protests are no more than diplomatic formalities meant to score points and do not serve any real purpose.
> 
> What is significant is that China has taken a military action expressing its impatience over Japan's control over the islands. "Directing such radar is very abnormal. We recognize it would create a very dangerous situation with a single misstep," Onodera said. He said *Japan's Yuudachi vessel and the Chinese frigate were about 3km apart at the time.*
> 
> Japanese media quoted Onodera as saying that it took the ministry until Tuesday to determine that a fire-control radar had targeted the Japanese ship. A Japanese military helicopter was also targeted with a similar radar by another Chinese frigate on 19 January, he said.


The "maritime escort ship" that the Japanese defense minister referred to is the Yuudachi, which is a Japanese navy destroyer. The two warships is 3km apart in international water.


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## Princess

Viet said:


> Nope, the Japanese called a Chinese frigate targeting their naval vessel. A destroyer is larger and mightier than a frigate, as far as I know.
> 
> 
> in military exercises US/JAPAN, not compareable to what you did.




exercises? sorry, but not in exercises, they are already get used to it and don't allow others doing the same ^_^||


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## Viet

Princess said:


> exercises? sorry, but not in exercises, they are already get used to it and don't allow others doing the same ^_^||


Any source for what you say, little princess?



JSCh said:


> The "maritime escort ship" that the Japanese defense minister referred to is the *Yuudachi*, which is a Japanese navy destroyer. The two warships is 3km apart in international water.


Yuh, the Japanese were not amused.





_destroyer Yuudachi_

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## Princess

Viet said:


> Any source for what you say, little princess?
> 
> 
> Yuh, the Japanese were not amused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _destroyer Yuudachi_



NOT in official news but heard that from a soldier in PLA Navy.
but I think it is true, base on following reasons:

1- Japan / US Navy all have more advanced equipment (inc. radars) and warships

2- they all review PLA Navy as some kind of "threat" since long ago 

3- In this case, Japan warship was 3000m away from PLA ship in international water, their reason to be so close was definitely not for "friendship"... they know that because they also using radar... and tracing, for provocation 

4- http://signsofthefuture.wordpress.c...warning-shots-at-chinese-surveillance-planes/ - see what Japan did before


----------



## JSCh

Viet said:


> Any source for what you say, little princess?
> 
> 
> Yuh, the Japanese were not amused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _destroyer Yuudachi_


The Japanese ship is a warship, a destroyer that is much bigger than the Chinese frigate. And they are unusually near to each other as far as warship goes in open international water.

I just wonder why the news report do not go right out and state that fact, instead they use word like "maritime escort ship" or "Japanese vessel". An unsuspecting reader might get the impression that the Japanese ship is a similar or smaller size civilian vessel.

Is it because for propaganda purposes, the Japanese is to be painted like a "victim"? Because it would be harder to make people believe that the smaller Chinese warship is "threatening" the much bigger Japanese warship?

The mentioning of firing missile is also strange, because you cannot fire ship to ship missile at that close range. But of course the ordinary reader without military knowledge would not know that. They would just believe what they are being fed by the media.

We were also not told about the two ships speed and vector and what they are doing. Well, I think it take two to tango.

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## Viet

JSCh said:


> The Japanese ship is a warship, a destroyer that is much bigger than the Chinese frigate. And they are unusually near to each other as far as warship goes in open international water.
> ...
> We were also not told about the two ships speed and vector and what they are doing. Well, I think it take two to tango.


I am not quite sure if you understand the implication of the radar action of the Chinese frigate? Anyone can imagine what happened on the Japanese destroyer Yuudachi in this minute when they felt the threat.

One mistake from either side, and the situation would get out of control.

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## JSCh

Viet said:


> I am not quite sure if you understand the implication of the radar action of the Chinese frigate? Anyone can imagine what happened on the Japanese destroyer Yuudachi in this minute when they felt the threat.
> 
> One mistake from either side, and the situation would get out of control.


They would not get so close if they think the Chinese is going to shoot at them. Modern warship do not fight at that kind of range.
I think it is because they know that the Chinese would not shoot at them, that is why they dare to get so close.


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> I am not quite sure if you understand the implication of the radar action of the Chinese frigate? Anyone can imagine what happened on the Japanese destroyer Yuudachi in this minute when they felt the threat.
> 
> One mistake from either side, and the situation would get out of control.



the japanese news didn't tell us some of the most important information. they want to cover the facts.
where did it happen? high seas or controversial waters&#65311;
what is the task of both ships?
why did they meet each other?
why Chinese ship was incensed?


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> the japanese news didn't tell us some of the most important information. they want to cover the facts.
> where did it happen? high seas or controversial waters&#65311;


in the international waters of East China Sea near the disputed islands


djsjs said:


> what is the task of both ships? why did they meet each other?


Well, they are supposed to do regular patrolling the sea and the islands, where both sides claim theirs.


djsjs said:


> why Chinese ship was incensed?


no info from Chinese side, do you know any?

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## northeast

Princess said:


> NOT in official news but heard that from a soldier in PLA Navy.
> but I think it is true, base on following reasons:
> 
> 1- Japan / US Navy all have more advanced equipment (inc. radars) and warships
> 
> 2- they all review PLA Navy as some kind of "threat" since long ago
> 
> 3- In this case, Japan warship was 3000m away from PLA ship in international water, their reason to be so close was definitely not for "friendship"... they know that because they also using radar... and tracing, for provocation
> 
> 4- Japanese fighter jets set to fire warning shots at Chinese surveillance planes. « End Time Times - see what Japan did before


I dont believe japan has the guts to lock on our ship.stop your BS fairytale.


----------



## anon45

Princess said:


> NOT in official news but heard that from a soldier in PLA Navy.
> but I think it is true, base on following reasons:
> 
> 1- Japan / US Navy all have more advanced equipment (inc. radars) and warships
> 
> 2- they all review PLA Navy as some kind of "threat" since long ago
> 
> 3- In this case, Japan warship was 3000m away from PLA ship in international water, their reason to be so close was definitely not for "friendship"... they know that because they also using radar... and tracing, for provocation
> 
> 4- Japanese fighter jets set to fire warning shots at Chinese surveillance planes. « End Time Times - see what Japan did before



There are different modes for tracking radar on navy ships, the soldier you speak of was likely referring to a less provocative mode then is the issue here, because if he wasn't I guarantee you it would have become a major international incident, and you would have more sources than just word of mouth.

What the Chinese ship allegedly did was actually have its missile(s) locked on target and prepared for firing. 

That isn't done in peacetime and outside of exercises. The response time the Japanese would have should it be fired, is seconds at that distance, and if the Japanese felt threatened and fired first... well just be glad the Japanese Sailors believed it was a bluff.

Regardless it raises the chance of 'accidents' happening by quite a bit.

Its akin to pointing a gun at a person, even without intent to fire.

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## Audio

> A top US navy intelligence officer has echoed warnings of the threat from China, saying the country had become a bully on the high seas, with ambitions to sink American warships and seize control of waters from its neighbours.
> 
> Captain Fanell said China's ''harassments'' on the high seas had expanded over time.
> ''In my opinion, China is knowingly, operationally and incrementally seizing maritime rights of its neighbours under the rubric of a maritime history that is not only contested in the international community but has largely been fabricated by Chinese government propaganda bureaus in order to 'educate' the populous about China's rich maritime history, clearly as a tool to sustain the Party's control.''



US Intel Officer Warns On China Bully | China V Japan


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## indian_foxhound

Japan urges restraint by China after radar lock-on - Indian Express



Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe urged China on
Wednesday not to stoke tension over disputed
East China Sea isles, a day after Japan said a Chinese
vessel directed radar normally used to aim
weapons at a target at a Japanese navy ship. A Chinese government spokeswoman said she
was not aware of the details of the incident, and
focused instead on Chinas stance that Japan
should stop sending its ships into what China
considers its territorial waters around the islands. The incident is a dangerous conduct that could
have led to an unforeseeable situation. It is
extremely regrettable that China carried out such a
one-sided, provocative act when signs are
emerging for dialogue, Abe told parliament. I ask
the Chinese side to return to the spirit of mutually beneficial, strategic relations and prevent the
recurrence of an incident like this. I strongly ask
them for restraints so that the situation will not
escalate further, Abe said. Fire control radar is used to pinpoint the location of
a target for missiles or shells. Directing the radar at
a target can be considered a step away from actual
firing. The radar incident, which Japan said took place in
the East China Sea on January 30, came days after
Chinese Communist Party chief Xi Jinping told Abes
envoy that he was committed to developing
bilateral ties. I have seen the reports but I dont
understand the details of the situation, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said. In recent days, Japan has on many occasions
deployed aircraft and ships and illegally entered
Chinese waters around the Diaoyu Islands. China
has made representations on many occasions and
requested Japan stop its illegal activities, she said Relations between Asias two biggest economies
deteriorated sharply when the Japanese
government bought the islets, called the Senkaku
in Japan and the Diaoyu in China, from a private
Japanese owner, in September, igniting protests
across China.


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> Nope, the Japanese called a Chinese frigate targeting their naval vessel. A destroyer is larger and mightier than a frigate, as far as I know.
> in military exercises US/JAPAN, not compareable to what you did.


Well, I reply for your words with that pic, I mean those ship are destroyer in JMSDF "term", 


Princess said:


> NOT in official news but heard that from a soldier in PLA Navy.
> but I think it is true, base on following reasons:
> 
> 1- Japan / US Navy all have more advanced equipment (inc. radars) and warships
> 
> 2- they all review PLA Navy as some kind of "threat" since long ago
> 
> 3- In this case, Japan warship was 3000m away from PLA ship in international water, their reason to be so close was definitely not for "friendship"... they know that because they also using radar... and tracing, for provocation
> 
> 4- Japanese fighter jets set to fire warning shots at Chinese surveillance planes. « End Time Times - see what Japan did before


So you got no proof and condemnthe others just because you think so!? How poor you are...


JSCh said:


> The Japanese ship is a warship, a destroyer that is much bigger than the Chinese frigate. And they are unusually near to each other as far as warship goes in open international water.
> 
> I just wonder why the news report do not go right out and state that fact, instead they use word like "maritime escort ship" or "Japanese vessel". An unsuspecting reader might get the impression that the Japanese ship is a similar or smaller size civilian vessel.
> 
> Is it because for propaganda purposes, the Japanese is to be painted like a "victim"? Because it would be harder to make people believe that the smaller Chinese warship is "threatening" the much bigger Japanese warship?
> 
> The mentioning of firing missile is also strange, because you cannot fire ship to ship missile at that close range. But of course the ordinary reader without military knowledge would not know that. They would just believe what they are being fed by the media.
> 
> We were also not told about the two ships speed and vector and what they are doing. Well, I think it take two to tango.


1. Those ship are different in size but get same kind of equipments, so what's with the case!? LOL

2. JSDF said that, and news followed it. what did you want to refer it!? The Bigger was bully, for sure!?

3. So you saying that China was very bad on "propaganda"!?  Did you know how many money China spend for "propaganda purposes"!?
Did you know what actions China fishmen do to US ship and JCG ship!? 

4. Man, What did you want to set up the scene with "missile range"!? *ARE YOU SAYING THAT CHINA AND JAPAN WERE IN WAR OR SOMETHING!?*


JSCh said:


> They would not get so close if they think the Chinese is going to shoot at them. Modern warship do not fight at that kind of range.
> I think it is because they know that the Chinese would not shoot at them, that is why they dare to get so close.


Again, boy, you just read and saw too much fictions and movies. 
If you want proven China is innocent, so you should show up anything value, not twist around with your "smart theories"!

It's maybe an incident, but not for twice. 
What's purposes of China do that move still unclear, but something show up here: some Chinese crying so much to get the title "victim" again. 

China's government and media just spokes so loud in many time, but this time, "victim" shut up and stop crying. 
So someone in PDF must crying for them.


----------



## Princess

Soryu said:


> babababa...



don't wanna say too much (since your mind is full of hostility to china)

here comes latest proof in official news

translate yourself if you care / and I understand evidences are not important for a hater


----------



## Soryu

Princess said:


> don't wanna say too much (since your mind is full of hostility to china)
> here comes latest proof in official news.
> translate yourself if you care / and I understand evidences are not important for a hater
> 
> by the way, I remember smart god-like american army dumped 80000000L agent orange (inc. 336KG Dioxin) in vietnam, now you two are best friends... how poor you are...


Again, all by your mouth.
Can you show me anything I said that China is wrong or something!? Show me if I wrong, cry louder 
Did you show up any news when you split your mouth at first!? Your words and no proof, right!? 

Friend or not friend, nothing with your stupid (Do you understand what's I saying!? )


----------



## Princess

anon45 said:


> Its akin to pointing a gun at a person, even without intent to fire.



both you and me don't know what was happened there
I don't think the warship itself can "fire at will" or "attack japan warship" without a order
and china is not holding the diploma of "surprise military strike" (guess which country holding that ?)
very likely the radar operator want to warn the bigger japan warship - "stop tracing"

nobody want a war, 
especially if you are currently live well

'accidents' could happen after many provocative actions by both sides
we cannot predict - that's why the situation looks so dangerous


----------



## Princess

Soryu said:


> Friend or not friend, nothing with your stupid (Do you understand what's I saying!? )



because you can not read the news article in Chinese
and because of your attitude I don't like to translate for you
so you assume everything is " all by your mouth " ?

anyway, doesn't matter what you believe

guess you are very good at Japanese reading / listening
and those Japanese news are 200% true / "not all by their mouth"...

that is so called :


----------



## Vitchilo

> see what Japan did before


You do know that Japs in the 30s-40s and the Japs today are two totally different people don't you??


----------



## revu

Princess said:


> because you can not read the news article in Chinese
> and because of your attitude I don't like to translate for you
> so you assume everything is " all by your mouth " ?
> 
> anyway, doesn't matter what you believe
> 
> guess you are very good at Japanese reading / listening
> and those Japanese news are 200% true / "not all by their mouth"...
> 
> that is so called :


if what written in that article are true, than the japanese already play victim, despite the oh so great navy they had. That article show the maturity of the Chinese Navy/government.

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## JSCh

Soryu said:


> Well, I reply for your words with that pic, I mean those ship are destroyer in JMSDF "term",
> 
> So you got no proof and condemnthe others just because you think so!? How poor you are...
> 
> 1. Those ship are different in size but get same kind of equipments, so what's with the case!? LOL
> 
> 2. JSDF said that, and news followed it. what did you want to refer it!? The Bigger was bully, for sure!?
> 
> 3. So you saying that China was very bad on "propaganda"!?  Did you know how many money China spend for "propaganda purposes"!?
> Did you know what actions China fishmen do to US ship and JCG ship!?
> 
> 4. Man, What did you want to set up the scene with "missile range"!? *ARE YOU SAYING THAT CHINA AND JAPAN WERE IN WAR OR SOMETHING!?*
> 
> Again, boy, you just read and saw too much fictions and movies.
> If you want proven China is innocent, so you should show up anything value, not twist around with your "smart theories"!
> 
> It's maybe an incident, but not for twice.
> What's purposes of China do that move still unclear, but something show up here: some Chinese crying so much to get the title "victim" again.
> 
> China's government and media just spokes so loud in many time, but this time, "victim" shut up and stop crying.
> So someone in PDF must crying for them.


In my previous post I said "It takes two to tango". That in plain english means that it take both party to participate in the incident.

Therefore it is obvious that there is no "victim" here. Both side is asking for it. BOTH side is NOT innocent.

But the fact is, Japan is the one that protest/complained and acting like a cry baby. I think most sane people would be able to see that this is just a political propaganda attempt from the Japanese.


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> in the international waters of East China Sea near the disputed islands
> 
> Well, they are supposed to do regular patrolling the sea and the islands, where both sides claim theirs.
> 
> no info from Chinese side, do you know any?



Obviously, the Chinese fleet is on the way for ocean-going training,and the target area is not diaoyu island(far from the disputed island, or else japanese would cry much louder to emphasize on the position). why they meet each other?Only one possibility, that japanese track and listen us same as what they did often in the past(japanese did it almost every time chinese fleed practice an ocean-going training).the fire-locked helicopter story indicate that japanese harass our fleet constantly like a fly.
indeed even we locked japanese ship ,it is not something serious.US and USSR fire-locked or shot warning each other as common practice during the cold war.and we'd better take more actions to get rid of the flies and mosquitoes


----------



## anon45

Princess said:


> both you and me don't know what was happened there


 Waiting for China's side.



Princess said:


> I don't think the warship itself can "fire at will" or "attack japan warship" without a order
> and china is not holding the diploma of "surprise military strike" (guess which country holding that ?)


 1) Japanese troops don't know what orders the Chinese warship received, they only know the Chinese frigate has its weapons locked and ready to fire. The uncertainty on intent is why it isn't done. It could have sparked a major war if either side acted hastily.

2)China may or may not hold a 'diploma' in surprise attacks, but China is certainly not innocent and pure in this respect in modern history. Given Japanese and Chinese relations, anything looks possible.




Princess said:


> very likely the radar operator want to warn the bigger japan warship - "stop tracing"
> 
> nobody want a war,
> especially if you are currently live well
> 
> 'accidents' could happen after many provocative actions by both sides
> we cannot predict - that's why the situation looks so dangerous




The only vindication for China in this would be if the ship did not actually lock its weapons onto the Japanese ship, and the Japanese prime minister was out and out blatantly lying to everyone for no real reason. Because again this is just not done, even if the reason was to "warn the bigger japan warship - "stop tracing", it is still not done. 

It can be interpreted as an engagement of hostilities, and the Japanese ship could have responded after a fashion under the false impression that it was protecting itself from an imminent Chinese strike.

If you are against the Idea of Japanese jets firing warning shots, you should be against this Chinese frigate's action's here.

Hopefully their unnecessary and incredibly dangerous escalation will be discouraged by those in charge, rather than becoming the 'new norm'.


----------



## Princess

anon45 said:


> Waiting for China's side.
> If you are against the Idea of Japan firing warning shots, you should be against China's action's here.



+1 (I agreed)

the official news here now said PLA Navy ships 
were locked by "unknown radars" nearly 100 time during their excises before
(are they fire-control radars / UAV radars/ AWACS radars ? still not clear) 







If they were really locked by Japan fire-control radars before
I think our navy should have the same rights to doing the same

don't want any war, don't like the way of "a tooth for a tooth"
but as a Chinese, it is my obligation to support my country and its army

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## indian_foxhound

BBC News - China media: Japan tensions


Chinese media criticise Japan for escalating
territorial tensions and highlight new foreign
policy challenges arising from North Korea's
adamant attitude over nuclear tests. Japan protested to Beijing on Tuesday after it
said Chinese vessels put a radar lock on both a
Japanese navy ship and a helicopter last month. Global Times says the situation remains unclear since China has yet to make an official response
to Japan's "one-sided arguments" and "dubious
signals of war". It questions whether Prime
Minister Shinzo Abe's government is
exaggerating the incident to "sway public
opinion". "If the Abe administration's real intention is to
implant the idea of an imminent war in the minds
of the public, China also must send the same
message to the Chinese public. If this is not the
case, Japan should try to dispel the Chinese
public's doubts and remove the harmful side- effects of its actions," a bilingual Global Times
editorial concludes. A commentary in The Beijing News says the Abe cabinet may be using the incident to hype up a
"China threat" as a bargaining chip to persuade
the US to "relax restraints". Turning to North Korea, China Daily says rising regional tensions triggered by Pyongyang's plan
to hold a third nuclear test are "worrying" and
warns that diplomats may be unable to control
the situation. "As such, the nuclear stand-off on the Korean
Peninsula seems to have entered a vicious circle,
with contesting parties employing a tit-for-tat
strategy and refusing to back down." Turning to Taiwan, Global Times accuses Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) Chairman Su
Tseng-chang of "flattering" Japan after he called
for Taiwan and Tokyo to prevent "other
countries exploiting opportunities" in the Diaoyu
or Senkaku islands dispute, referring indirectly to
mainland China. The DPP hits back by blasting the mainland for
deploying over 1,000 missiles against Taiwan,
Taiwan's Apple Daily reports. On a lighter note, the recent tensions with Japan
appear to be boosting sales of "Tokyo Big Bang"
and "I love the Diaoyu Islands" fireworks in
Beijing, according to People's Net. Ming Pao says some shops are hanging banners with slogans like "Protest the Diaoyus, Safeguard
the Nation, arouse your patriotic fervour" to
attract customers. "Aircraft carrier show nation's
might" fireworks are also a big hit, it adds. Meanwhile, China and Russia are not among the
30 countries on North Korean leader Kim Jong-
un's Traditional New Year greeting card list
published by Rodong Sinmun, The Beijing News notes. Labour camps Back in China, Communist Party leader Xi Jinping's
calls for "expanding and deepening" the army's
combat readiness during his tour of the Lanzhou
Military Region earlier this week is the lead story
on China Central Television. Southwest Yunnan province has suspended
approvals of the controversial laojiao re-
education through labour system. Last month,
southern Guangdong province said it planned to
phase out the system within this year, which
allows police to detain people for up to four years without an open trial, China Daily reports. "The re-education system, established in the
1950s to rectify social order by detaining people
charged with minor offences, has come in for
public flak for being prone to abuse," Xinhua news agency notes. The Beijing News applauds Yunnan's decision and hopes that other parts of the country will
"accomplish this historic task as soon as
possible". Radio and television stations are banned from
airing adverts on giving luxury items like
watches, rare stamps and gold coins as "gifts to
superiors" and "gifts to leaders", China Daily reports. Beijing Morning Post commentator Tong Tong supports the ban and says such lavish gift-giving
fuels "incorrect values and "a bad social ethos". The government will introduce a "fifth-phase"
higher-quality standard for vehicle fuel, before
the end of the year, with a grace period until the
end of 2017, China Daily reports. Meanwhile, Shenzhen is restricting the number of
tax-free goods that its residents can buy when
visiting Hong Kong to help curb cross-border
trading, especially in baby milk powder, South China Morning Post reports.


----------



## Soryu

Princess said:


> because you can not read the news article in Chinese
> and because of your attitude I don't like to translate for you
> so you assume everything is " all by your mouth " ?
> 
> anyway, doesn't matter what you believe
> 
> guess you are very good at Japanese reading / listening
> and those Japanese news are 200% true / "not all by their mouth"...
> 
> that is so called :


What's my attitude at first!? LOL
*Again*, boy, I just comment when I saw your words, where's your proof, news or anything in that time, boy!?
*Again*, this is English forum, you know!?
*Again*, Can you show me something which I said like "China was wrong, China was bad, China was bullshjt in this case for sure" !? 
_*So What's my attitude made you don't like to translate for me, boy!?*_

You twist with theory and post a picture that IJ army slaughter Chinese! Right!? What's your proof about this case, right!?
Why was you just quote one sentence of me!? Because the rest was right!? (well, you can just deny it, fine) 

Did you know why's I say this? :


> Friend or not friend, _*nothing with your stupid (Do you understand what's I saying!? )*_


*Did you know what's your stupid!?*

If you want defend for China in here, you shall post something value. 
What you gain when you brings US and Vietnam in here, with China and Japan in the case!? Nothing but that show up you are Idiot with "best friend" in your mouth and all by your mouth! ( Are you understand now!?)


Princess said:


> +1 (I agreed)
> 
> the official news here now said PLA Navy ships
> were locked by "unknown radars" nearly 100 time during their excises before
> (are they fire-control radars / UAV radars/ AWACS radars ? still not clear)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they were really locked by Japan fire-control radars before
> I think our navy should have the same rights to doing the same
> 
> don't want any war, don't like the way of "a tooth for a tooth"
> but as a Chinese, it is my obligation to support my country and its army


Offical news in Baidu! 

As usual, something happen, PRC has been take offical conference for news release ( MoD, Ministry of Foreign Affairs...) . But now, only Japan say it, of course when we discusses, I follow a certain course, not theory.

You used "theory" again. China said it in official that If Japan take warning shot, it's mean begin the war.
So You meaning that China shut her mouth because China was afraid Japan if come in "war"!?

Before Japan said it in official news that she will take "warning shot" in case China violate territory (senkaku Isl), they did it in early time. There is a video in youtube show that.

So, They could do what they said if they want, no need to "play" anything, IMO.


----------



## Soryu

JSCh said:


> In my previous post I said "It takes two to tango". That in plain english means that it take both party to participate in the incident.
> 
> Therefore it is obvious that there is no "victim" here. Both side is asking for it. BOTH side is NOT innocent.
> 
> But the fact is, Japan is the one that protest/complained and acting like a cry baby. I think most sane people would be able to see that this is just a political propaganda attempt from the Japanese.


The fact that are all theory said by you!

I say nothing about who is victim, you say it first!

And, you have problem with your logic:


> But the fact is, _*Japan is the one that protest/complained and acting like a cry baby*_. I think most sane people would be able to see that this is just a political propaganda attempt from the Japanese.


Just almost Chinese maybe think like that, not the others!


----------



## Princess

Soryu said:


> babababa...



Sorry, I don't read your words, simply don't care your opinion
whatever you like to believe, you has nothing to do with the China / Japan issue

I not going to explaining anything to you / doesn't matter what saying
so stop quote my words - it's nothing to do with you

but only discuss with people like @anon45


----------



## Soryu

Princess said:


> Sorry, I don't read your words, simply don't care your opinion
> whatever you like to believe, you has nothing to do with the China / Japan issue
> 
> I not going to explaining anything to you / doesn't matter what saying
> so stop quote my words - it's nothing to do with you
> 
> but only discuss with people like @anon45


Oh, really sorry, I did not know I made you feel so difficult like that to answer for few simple questions. 
Well, just go with your "smart theory", good luck.


----------



## Princess

Soryu said:


> Oh, really sorry, I did not know I made you feel so difficult like that to answer for few simple questions.
> Well, just go with your "smart theory", good luck.




because i don't need your support or understanding, and have no free time to talk with a poster who frequently using "stupid" and similar words. &#20320;&#39640;&#33288;&#23601;&#22909;#^_^
respecting others is respecting youself

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## JSCh

The Chinese news just reported that Chinese ministry of defense news officer stated that Japanese accusation of Chinese vessel using fire control radar to lock on Japanese vessel does not fit the fact.

On another somewhat related news, Russia denies Japanese accusation of intrusion into Japan's airspace.

1. is it that the Japanese is becoming paranoid and start seeing ghost?

2. is it that the Japanese should seriously consider updating their electronic equipment. 

3. maybe their personnel need better training?

4. Is it possible that the Japanese is victim of electronic warfare that generate false positive?

Either way, the Japanese look like becoming a laughing stock.

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## JSCh

Japanese media reported that the incident happened about 180km north of Diaoyu island. It is in the Chinese side of the middle/median line of the disputed EEZ of the East China Sea. FYI, the round circle in the map is the Chinese offshore oil and gas platform that sit just inside the Chinese side of the median line.

Japanese said that Chinese has locked on to Japanese vessel several time in Sept. 2012

In 1993, Japan and Russian has an agreement to ban the use of fire control radar to lock on each other. There is no such agreement between China and Japan.

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## Soryu

Princess said:


> because i don't need your support or understanding, and have no free time to talk with a poster who frequently using "stupid" and similar words. &#20320;&#39640;&#33288;&#23601;&#22909;#^_^
> respecting others is respecting youself


I repeat again: 
_ Did you know and understand what I said!? ( I think you know because you was edit your post!)

_ There are your respect! (I met it many time from you Chinese, so no strange about it)


Princess said:


> don't wanna say too much (since your mind is full of hostility to china)
> here comes latest proof in official news.
> translate yourself if you care / and I understand evidences are not important for a hater
> 
> *by the way, I remember smart god-like american army dumped 80000000L agent orange (inc. 336KG Dioxin) in vietnam, now you two are best friends... how poor you are...*


 Stupid or not, you done by yourself!



JSCh said:


> The Chinese news just reported that Chinese ministry of defense news officer stated that Japanese accusation of Chinese vessel using fire control radar to lock on Japanese vessel does not fit the fact.
> 
> On another somewhat related news, Russia denies Japanese accusation of intrusion into Japan's airspace.
> 
> 1. is it that the Japanese is becoming paranoid and start seeing ghost?
> 
> 2. is it that the Japanese should seriously consider updating their electronic equipment.
> 
> 3. maybe their personnel need better training?
> 
> 4. Is it possible that the Japanese is victim of electronic warfare that generate false positive?
> 
> Either way, the Japanese look like becoming a laughing stock.


Any source in english!?


----------



## anon45

Princess said:


> +1 (I agreed)
> 
> the official news here now said PLA Navy ships
> were locked by "unknown radars" nearly 100 time during their excises before
> (are they fire-control radars / UAV radars/ AWACS radars ? still not clear)


 Fairly sure its not weapons radar, but I've heard that its apparently common for countries to try to gather data on foreign (in this case PLA) ships during exercises. 

For subs its things like (radar?) signatures and such. I'm no avid student in naval affairs, but from what I've heard, Locking on with weapons radar is again, not done, and a huge escalation. 

It wasn't even done during the cold war because of the potential of accidents.





Princess said:


> If they were really locked by Japan fire-control radars before
> I think our navy should have the same rights to doing the same



If Japanese ships actually locked their own weapons radar onto PLA ships, I would equally denounce them for escalation, but I am also pretty sure they have not done so, because if they did do so China would be screaming it from the rooftops, just like Japan is doing.

I mentioned the act not happening as the only vindication, but I misspoke. It would also vindicate China if the Frigate did not follow orders and its officers in charge of the frigate were disciplined in some manner. Just something to show that this is not an action China intended or supported. Supposedly China is still looking into it according to english source chinese media, still awaiting word on China's view of this specific incident.




Princess said:


> don't want any war, don't like the way of "a tooth for a tooth"
> but as a Chinese, it is my obligation to support my country and its army



My country, right or wrong?

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## Princess

anon45 said:


> If Japanese ships actually locked their own weapons radar onto PLA ships, I would equally denounce them for escalation, but I am also pretty sure they have not done so, because if they did do so China would be screaming it from the rooftops, just like Japan is doing.



similar to you, as a ordinary people, I don't really know what will our army do in that case...
"screaming it from the rooftops" ? I hope they do so, but I'm not sure. 




anon45 said:


> I mentioned the act not happening as the only vindication, but I misspoke. It would also vindicate China if the Frigate did not follow orders and its officers in charge of the frigate were disciplined in some manner. Just something to show that this is not an action China intended or supported. Supposedly China is still looking into it according to english source chinese media, still awaiting word on China's view of this specific incident.



again, I am not sure if they will tell us more details about the incident or just "ignoring it" > <




anon45 said:


> My country, right or wrong?



I am not mean that... 

your US Forces is still the best stabilizer of the world

most Chinese people don't want to be the "police" or "referee" or "judge" ...
they usually concentrate on domestic affairs (that's our culture) ...
... unless feel "they are invading us!" (mainly the territorial disputes according to 1949 map)
or "our ally is in danger! " (during the Korean War ... right or wrong? not sure )


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## JSCh

Soryu said:


> I repeat again:
> _ Did you know and understand what I said!? ( I think you know because you was edit your post!)
> 
> _ There are your respect! (I met it many time from you Chinese, so no strange about it)
> 
> Stupid or not, you done by yourself!
> 
> 
> Any source in english!?


So far cannot find source in english. But is all over Chinese web news. It is also reported first by Phoenix TV (Hong Kong) and this morning CCTV also.

But western media is not picking it up since last night? Interesting......


----------



## Fsjal

JSCh said:


> So far cannot find source in english. But is all over Chinese web news. It is also reported first by Phoenix TV (Hong Kong) and this morning CCTV also.
> 
> But western media is not picking it up since last night? Interesting......



I notice that as well. Maybe to avoid provoking China or something


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## grandmaster

anon45 said:


> ....
> 
> 
> 
> If Japanese ships actually locked their own weapons radar onto PLA ships, I would equally denounce them for escalation, but I am also pretty sure they have not done so, because if they did do so China would be screaming it from the rooftops, just like Japan is doing.




without any evidence, it is very biased when you said you believed JP had not done so. that is why whatever you told us is just BS and hypocrisy. we never believe in such biased person.


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## grandmaster

i never see picture like this in west media. but on west media there are lot pics of 1979 event in china. this pic shows japanese is the evilest race on the earth. now i see how biased the west media are! particularly when they hide japanese crimes and supercede with china 1979 issue.


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## JSCh

Chinese MoD Press Release: Close-in Monitoring and Surveillance by Japanese Warships and Airplanes is the Root Cause to the Air and Maritime Safety Issues between China and Japan

NYTimes: china-denies-directing-radar-at-japanese-military


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## Princess

Soryu said:


> I repeat again:
> _ Did you know and understand what I said!? ( I think you know because you was edit your post!)
> 
> _ There are your respect! (I met it many time from you Chinese, so no strange about it)
> 
> Stupid or not, you done by yourself!
> 
> Any source in english!?









_*respecting others is respecting yourself.*_


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## Viet

@Princess my *respect *for your response!
You got the point for the best ever answer. Vietnamese trolling, so Chinese trolling...Vietnamese shouting, so Chinese.

Unfortunately there is no Japanese member here in PDF contributing to this discussion, we both can vow to continue or Vietnamese members vow to leave this discussion.


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## Viet

JSCh said:


> So far cannot find source in english. But is all over Chinese web news. It is also reported first by Phoenix TV (Hong Kong) and this morning CCTV also.
> 
> But *western media* is not picking it up since last night? Interesting......


Today a German media reports the "incident". China denied the accusation of Japan.

China weist Japans Vorwürfe zu Radarzwischenfall zurück - SPIEGEL ONLINE

a good picture of the largest islet of Senkaku/Diaoyu. Nice!


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## djsjs

Viet said:


> Today a German media reports the "incident". China denied the accusation of Japan.
> 
> China weist Japans Vorwürfe zu Radarzwischenfall zurück - SPIEGEL ONLINE


now you may have different answers to my questions in #413


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## Viet

djsjs said:


> now you may have different answers to my questions in #413


China officials say the frigate used shipborne radar, not weapon radar. Japan said the opposite.


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## djsjs

Viet said:


> China officials say the frigate used shipborne radar, not weapon radar. Japan said the opposite.



the positions is not near diaoyu island
did the news tell that Japanese military officers saw the artillery did not rotate to aim at them?


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## Viet

djsjs said:


> the positions is not near diaoyu island


all the news say the incident took place near the islands.


djsjs said:


> did the news tell that Japanese military officers saw *the artillery* did not rotate to aim at them?


not in the news, just the Japanese warship noticed the Chinese frigate used fire-control radar. 

Well, I would say Japan has to show evidence for the accusation. Both fire-control and normal marine radar have unique characteristics, such as radio frequency, pulse duration, pulse frequency and power...


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> all the news say the incident took place near the islands.


180km....NEAR? Okay.it is nothing important


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## JSCh

Japan: Hotline needed after Chinese warship 'threatened force' - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun


> There are conflicting opinions within the Abe administration as to the level of danger the incident posed. One senior government official said it only shows Beijing has limited control over its military.
> 
> "The incident did not represent a high-level decision by China," the official said.
> 
> Another government source suggested the incident was unlikely to have resulted in an actual attack.
> 
> *"The gun barrel was not directed toward the Self-Defense Forces destroyer," the official said.
> *
> Proposals to create a high-level defense hotline have gained traction on the Japanese side.
> 
> "We wish to set up a mechanism for maritime communications to prevent a crisis from arising unexpectedly," said Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Katsunobu Kato, addressing a news conference Feb. 6.
> 
> The proposal dates back to April 2007, when Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, in his first period in office, met with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao and agreed to begin talks on creating a hotline.


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## Soryu

OMG, I can not stop laugh . 
Now, he take so much effort to proven that's me did not respect him at first. 


Princess said:


> _*respecting others is respecting yourself.*_



You just said it at first reply:


> *don't wanna say too much (since your mind is full of hostility to china)*
> 
> here comes latest proof in official news
> 
> translate yourself if you care / and I understand evidences are not important for a hater


Now You try so hard to make me laugh  ( translate by what!? I don't know Chinese and this is a English forum, for god sake! *And you post a pictute, not even text or link!* )

First:
_ Did you give any source (even chinese's source) in your post!? Any real evidence clear!? All your deductive! (*And a barbarian picture will bring hatred on Japan - How that was related to this topic and became your proof to defend for PLAN!?*)

_ Did you expect me respect you with that trolling of you!? 

_ Did I said anything like like "JSDF said is true 100% for sure"!? ( And I was reply to *JSCh*, not you or "your respect" bullshjt  )


> 1. Those ship are different in size but get same kind of equipments, so what's with the case!? LOL
> 
> 2. _*JSDF said that, and news followed it. what did you want to refer it!? The Bigger was bully, for sure!?*_
> 
> 3. So you saying that China was very bad on "propaganda"!? Did you know how many money China spend for "propaganda purposes"!?
> Did you know what actions China fishmen do to US ship and JCG ship!?
> 
> 4. Man, What did you want to set up the scene with "missile range"!? ARE YOU SAYING THAT CHINA AND JAPAN WERE IN WAR OR SOMETHING!?


_ My comment was reply for *JSCh*, related or not related to this topic in anything with you!? ( That is MOD's works if They saw my post is off topic or no value, not "your smart")

_ At No.2 comment, so you consider "JSDF did not say it" and "news did not follows what JSDF said"!? Can you show me your proof about this!?

_ _Again, with "your smart", You bring US and their crime on here! For What!? That's your proof to defend for China from Vietnamese member in this topic!? How low you are! How poor you are!_ 

_ I just take questions, you was not dare to answer anything with straight way , just turn around like a clown try to defend your wrong arguments! 

_ Now, PRC has been take official respond, but not on time Japan take, let wait for the moves.

P/S: Can you answer my comments one by one for straight, Princess !? (Dare you!?)



Viet said:


> @Princess my *respect *for your response!
> You got the point for the best ever answer. Vietnamese trolling, so Chinese trolling...Vietnamese shouting, so Chinese.
> 
> Unfortunately there is no Japanese member here in PDF contributing to this discussion, we both can vow to continue or Vietnamese members vow to leave this discussion.


Can you show me where did my post was trolling anything or provocation!? I say it with really.
He turn around with theory, and you respected him!? How funny! 

_*You respect him with this!? Are you know what he meaning!? You should never return Vietnam!*_


> Originally Posted by Princess View Post
> don't wanna say too much (since your mind is full of hostility to china)
> here comes latest proof in official news.
> translate yourself if you care / and I understand evidences are not important for a hater
> 
> *by the way, I remember smart god-like american army dumped 80000000L agent orange (inc. 336KG Dioxin) in vietnam, now you two are best friends.*.. how poor you are...
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/223260-diaoyu-islands-news-updates-29.html#ixzz2KKbpBI3o

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## Fsjal

When did Vietnam became part of this dispute?

Just because China has disputes with other countries does not mean you intervene into their dispute with a DIFFERENT nation.


----------



## grandmaster

Japan demands apology from China over weapons-linked radar - Telegraph
Japan demanded a formal apology from China yesterday for a "one-sided provocation" after its navy targetted a Japanese destroyer patrolling the disputed Senkaku Islands with weapons-linked radars. 

Shinzo Abe, the prime minister, angrily rejected Chinese denials that it had engaged military radars in the area as the escalating dispute between Tokyo and Beijing forced the Japanese foreign ministry call in the Chinese ambassador for a dressing down. 

Statements issued in Beijing flatly denied its forces had engaged the offensive radar systems, dismissing the Japanese claims about the incident, which took place last month, as "against the facts". 

"*We wish China to acknowledge it, apologise for it and make efforts to prevent it from recurring," he said. "We have confirmed visually and by photographs and other means such details as whether the radar was directed this way*." 

Mr Abe told parliament that China's increasing aggression in the East China Sea around the Senkakus was forcing his government to adopt a "robust diplomatic response".

But China said that Japanese complaints about two incidents was inflammatory. "Japan again deliberately spread false information to smear China's image and play up the China threat," Hua Chunying, a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said. "This has created tension and misled international opinion. We cannot help but ask what is Japan's true intention." 

The uninhabited islands, called Diaoyu in China and Senkaku in Japan, lie in an area rich in fish, oil and natural gas. Japan's purchase of three of the islands in September prompted violent protests in China that damaged Japanese businesses. 

Satoshi Morimoto, who stepped down as Japanese defence minister in December, predicted a further series of provocations from China, claiming Beijing had drawn up plans to land a helicopter-borne force on the island and other measures. "It is conceivable that it may even try to ram Japan Coast Guard cutters and arrest Japanese crew members," he said. "I am worried that China will keep prodding Japan in the hopes of getting a rise from the Abe administration."

Alessio Patalano, an expert in East Asian naval forces at King's College, warned that the dangers of a confrontation spilling over into clashes was real as the sophisticated Japanese navy struggles to cope with a Chinese counterpart that is a relatively unknown quantity. 



The Japanese navy boasts a surface fleet twice the size of the Royal Navy dedicated to keeping Japan's sea lanes unimpeded.


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## Huan

Do not apologize to Japan. Japan is not as important or influential as it thought it was. Don't apologize to a thief who took your Chinese land when you were very weak.

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## grandmaster

grandmaster said:


> Japan demands apology from China over weapons-linked radar - Telegraph
> Japan demanded a formal apology from China yesterday for a "one-sided provocation" after its navy targetted a Japanese destroyer patrolling the disputed Senkaku Islands with weapons-linked radars.
> 
> Shinzo Abe, the prime minister, angrily rejected Chinese denials that it had engaged military radars in the area as the escalating dispute between Tokyo and Beijing forced the Japanese foreign ministry call in the Chinese ambassador for a dressing down.
> 
> Statements issued in Beijing flatly denied its forces had engaged the offensive radar systems, dismissing the Japanese claims about the incident, which took place last month, as "against the facts".
> 
> "*We wish China to acknowledge it, apologise for it and make efforts to prevent it from recurring," he said. "We have confirmed visually and by photographs and other means such details as whether the radar was directed this way*."
> 
> Mr Abe told parliament that China's increasing aggression in the East China Sea around the Senkakus was forcing his government to adopt a "robust diplomatic response".
> 
> But China said that Japanese complaints about two incidents was inflammatory. "Japan again deliberately spread false information to smear China's image and play up the China threat," Hua Chunying, a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said. "This has created tension and misled international opinion. We cannot help but ask what is Japan's true intention."
> 
> The uninhabited islands, called Diaoyu in China and Senkaku in Japan, lie in an area rich in fish, oil and natural gas. Japan's purchase of three of the islands in September prompted violent protests in China that damaged Japanese businesses.
> 
> Satoshi Morimoto, who stepped down as Japanese defence minister in December, predicted a further series of provocations from China, claiming Beijing had drawn up plans to land a helicopter-borne force on the island and other measures. "It is conceivable that it may even try to ram Japan Coast Guard cutters and arrest Japanese crew members," he said. "I am worried that China will keep prodding Japan in the hopes of getting a rise from the Abe administration."
> 
> Alessio Patalano, an expert in East Asian naval forces at King's College, warned that the dangers of a confrontation spilling over into clashes was real as the sophisticated Japanese navy struggles to cope with a Chinese counterpart that is a relatively unknown quantity.
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese navy boasts a surface fleet twice the size of the Royal Navy dedicated to keeping Japan's sea lanes unimpeded.



it is shameful on Japan. japanese facists killed millions of people in the past in east asia. until now, Japan hasnt acknowledged their crime and said no apology to any east asia country. however, with his wicked face and nasty mouth, Abe is wishing china to apologize japan for nothing. that is wicked nature of Abe! Abe has no right to ask for apology. he and japan dont deserve that even if china did intentionally

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## Soryu

Fsjal said:


> When did Vietnam became part of this dispute?
> 
> Just because China has disputes with other countries does not mean you intervene into their dispute with a DIFFERENT nation.


Again, OMG, This false flag is still so funny 
I will answer to you by Question:

_ *When did Vietnam became part of this dispute?*
_ *When did I bring SCS dispute in here, Tro.ll clown!?*
_ *If I am here was intervention, so what about you jumping like a clown in many topic about Vietnam, China, Japan...!?*

You have a problems with your brain! 

P/S: ahhh... yeah! New year coming in today! So funny!


----------



## anon45

grandmaster said:


> without any evidence, it is very biased when you said you believed JP had not done so. that is why whatever you told us is just BS and hypocrisy. we never believe in such biased person.



That is illogical, and essentially is asking me to prove a negative with no evidence to use. Can you prove fairies do not exist? You have no evidence disproving it!

to my knowledge, not even Chinese officials have accused Japan of locking weapons radars onto Chinese ships.

As I said, my biggest reason for believing Japan has not done so is because China would most definitely raise a fuss over it if it is willing to raise a fuss over things like Warning shots.

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## anon45

Princess said:


> similar to you, as a ordinary people, I don't really know what will our army do in that case...
> "screaming it from the rooftops" ? I hope they do so, but I'm not sure.



I certainly don't see what they'd gain from keeping such actions silent, this is as much, if not more, a media battle as anything.






Princess said:


> I am not mean that...
> 
> your US Forces is still the best stabilizer of the world
> 
> most Chinese people don't want to be the "police" or "referee" or "judge" ...
> they usually concentrate on domestic affairs (that's our culture) ...
> ... unless feel "they are invading us!" (mainly the territorial disputes according to 1949 map)
> or "our ally is in danger! " (during the Korean War ... right or wrong? not sure )




Well that is the crux of the conflict isn't it. Without getting into which side is right, both side's people's evidently feel their sovereignty is being encroached upon, and as we have seen, the tensions have escalated to the point where both sides military's are rubbing up against each other.


I could honestly care less who owns these little islands, I care that the US has a defence treaty with Japan that has been stated to cover these islands, Japan is a major US ally in the Pacific, and the repercussions of not following through on the treaty are not acceptable, and this same view is held as implied by the administration's confirmation (at several levels) that the Islands fall under the treaty. It is further confirmed by Congress' unanimous approval of billing reiterating the US' commitment to Japan's defense.

My primary concern is that conflict doesn't break out, and the US isn't put into a situation where it has been perceived as not fulfilling its treaty duties, especially to a country like Japan.


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## Knight of Tang

Apologize to japs??? apologize their @sss!!!


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## Fsjal

Soryu said:


> Again, OMG, This false flag is still so funny
> I will answer to you by Question:
> 
> _ *When did Vietnam became part of this dispute?*
> _ *When did I bring SCS dispute in here, Tro.ll clown!?*
> _ *If I am here was intervention, so what about you jumping like a clown in many topic about Vietnam, China, Japan...!?*
> 
> You have a problems with your brain!
> 
> P/S: ahhh... yeah! New year coming in today! So funny!



Hahahaha. So funny.

But seriously, why? Also calling me a false flagger is childish. My brain is OK, you?



Knight of Tang said:


> Apologize to japs??? apologize their @sss!!!



I think the Japanese had enough. They want peace, they get peace.


----------



## grandmaster

anon45 said:


> That is illogical, and essentially is asking me to prove a negative with no evidence to use. Can you prove fairies do not exist? You have no evidence disproving it!
> 
> to my knowledge, not even Chinese officials have accused Japan of locking weapons radars onto Chinese ships.
> 
> As I said, my biggest reason for believing Japan has not done so is because China would most definitely raise a fuss over it if it is willing to raise a fuss over things like Warning shots.



wihout witnessing, then you should not say "pretty sure japan did not do that". if you are not a witness then shut your nasty mouth up.

besides, only japanese PM behaves like a bad person when he got fussy for such small incident. china is not japan. the fuss you said about is only right when you mention japan!


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## Viet

Soryu said:


> P/S: Can you answer my comments one by one for straight, Princess !? (Dare you!?)
> Can you show me where did my post was trolling anything or provocation!? I say it with really.
> He turn around with theory, and you respected him!? How funny!
> 
> _*You respect him with this!? Are you know what he meaning!? You should never return Vietnam!*_


Bro, pls calm down. If you read my post again, then you will understand, I mean ironic. @Princess repeated many times the word "respect", so I used it for a ironic response.

When I wrote "troll", I think in general, not you in particular. Here on PDF, everyone trolls, me included.



Fsjal said:


> When did *Vietnam *became part of this dispute?
> Just because China has disputes with other countries does not mean you intervene into their dispute with a DIFFERENT nation.


Do you see any Japanese members here on PDF? You are right, we do not claim the Senkakus.

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## anon45

grandmaster said:


> wihout witnessing, then you should not say "pretty sure japan did not do that". if you are not a witness then shut your nasty mouth up.
> 
> besides, only japanese PM behaves like a bad person when he got fussy for such small incident. china is not japan. the fuss you said about is only right when you mention japan!



Hey, if you don't like it, take it up with Xinhua and the Global Times, i'm only passing along their messages.

Again, If China is willing to threaten war over the mere mention of warning shots, it would at the very least make a big fuss about the action of a weapons radar locking on to its ships, so the most compelling evidence that it hasn't happened is that China has not raised the issue.

You are obviously trolling though, this is for the benefit of others, not much more to say.


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Bro, pls calm down. If you read my post again, then you will understand, I mean ironic. @Princess repeated many times the word "respect", so I used it for a ironic response.
> 
> When I wrote "troll", I think in general, not you in particular. Here on PDF, everyone trolls, me included.
> 
> 
> Do you see any Japanese members here on PDF? You are right, we do not claim the Senkakus.


Well, Is that so!? Fine... 
Just something before new year,... new year came now! Let pass these stupid troll clown...


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## Viet

grandmaster said:


> ...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ogy-from-China-over-weapons-linked-radar.html


Wow, I know Mr Abe is tough. But demanding a sorry from China?



Soryu said:


> Well, Is that so!? Fine...
> Just something before new year,... new year came now! Let pass these stupid troll clown...


Happy new year! Wish you and your familiy "All the best, good health and prosperity!"

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Wow, I know Mr Abe is tough. But demanding a sorry from China?
> 
> 
> Happy new year! Wish you and your familiy "All the best, good health and prosperity!"


As well as for you and your family!
How about new year in Germanry!? I really don't know but I think I will miss Tet in Vietnam so much if I was in oversea!

P/S: Japan was say they will show proof about incident... just wonder How about respond from China at now!


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## grandmaster

anon45 said:


> Hey, if you don't like it, take it up with Xinhua and the Global Times, i'm only passing along their messages.
> 
> Again, If China is willing to threaten war over the mere mention of warning shots, it would at the very least make a big fuss about the action of a weapons radar locking on to its ships, so the most compelling evidence that it hasn't happened is that China has not raised the issue.
> 
> You are obviously trolling though, this is for the benefit of others, not much more to say.




what is trolling? saying japan did not do something without witnessing is trolling. i hardly see china get fussy like what japan did. the true is that japan is threatened by china make you, vietnamese, got fussy! i dont know why vietnamese guys got fussy not for their issue. it is funny and trolling i hope next time, china fire real missile at japan, i will see how fussy you are, hahaha

this is the genocide crime of japanese:


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## gpit

anon45 said:


> That is illogical, and essentially is asking me to prove a negative with no evidence to use. Can you prove fairies do not exist? You have no evidence disproving it!
> 
> to my knowledge, not even Chinese officials have accused Japan of locking weapons radars onto Chinese ships.
> 
> As I said, my biggest reason for believing Japan has not done so is because China would most definitely raise a fuss over it if it is willing to raise a fuss over things like Warning shots.



No evidence?

Are you sure?

Japan is a big liar.

a) In 1937, they lied about a soldier was missing in NE China and their railroad was sabotaged (presumably by the Chinese), so they launched a full-scale invasion of China.

b) Japanese awarded friendship medals to U.S. military personnel, then they launched Pearl Harbor attack. President Franklin D. Roosevelt proclaimed December 7, 1941, "a date which will live in infamy".


Those are not fairytale. *Japan is a big liar*. And they attempt to lie again.

For the moment, they use Senkaku (Diaoyu) islands situation to change their constitution to nurture their own forces. Later, they will use that force to launch second pearl Harbor attack.

To the Japanese, the Chinese never defeated them. Rather, it is American who dropped the only atomic bomb on Japanese to cause their defeat. *The target for their ultimate revenge is USA*, not the China that they think they already conquered. 

Only fools don't see this picture and still believe the Japanese.


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## Vitchilo

Is China Mobilizing For A War With Japan? | Zero Hedge


> Is China Mobilizing For A War With Japan?
> 
> We don't know if it merely a coincidence that a story has emerged discussing a Chinese mobilization in response to the ongoing territorial feud with Japan over the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands (and the proximal massive gas field) the very week that China celebrates its new year (and days after news that a Chinese warship was very close to firing on a Japanese destroyer). We don't know how much of the story is based in reality, and how much may be propaganda or furthering someone's agenda. What we do know is that the source of the story: offshore-based, Falun Gong-affiliated NTDTV has historically been a credible source of information that the China communist party desperately tries to censor, such as breaking the news of the SARS epidemic in 2003 some three weeks before China publicly admitted it. Its motto is "to bring truthful and uncensored information into and out of China." If that is indeed the case, and its story of major troop movements and mobilization of various types of military vehicles and artillery into the Fujian and Zhejian provinces, bordering the East China Sea and closest to the Diaoyu islands, is accurate, then hostilities between China and Japan may be about to take a major turn for the worse.


Uh oh.


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## Viet

Soryu said:


> As well as for you and your family!
> How about new year in Germanry!? I really don't know but I think I will miss Tet in Vietnam so much if I was in oversea!
> 
> P/S: Japan was say they will show proof about incident... just wonder How about respond from China at now!


I spent my last Christmas in Saigon. I miss Vietnam very much.

PS: About the incident, Japan may release data proving Chinese radar incident: media

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/09/us-japan-china-idUSBRE91801B20130209


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## anon45

gpit said:


> No evidence?
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> Japan is a big liar.
> 
> a) In 1937, they lied about a soldier was missing in NE China and their railroad was sabotaged (presumably by the Chinese), so they launched a full-scale invasion of China.
> 
> b) Japanese awarded friendship medals to U.S. military personnel, then they launched Pearl Harbor attack. President Franklin D. Roosevelt proclaimed December 7, 1941, "a date which will live in infamy".
> 
> 
> Those are not fairytale. *Japan is a big liar*. And they attempt to lie again.
> 
> For the moment, they use Senkaku (Diaoyu) islands situation to change their constitution to nurture their own forces. Later, they will use that force to launch second pearl Harbor attack.
> 
> To the Japanese, the Chinese never defeated them. Rather, it is American who dropped the only atomic bomb on Japanese to cause their defeat. *The target for their ultimate revenge is USA*, not the China that they think they already conquered.
> 
> Only fools don't see this picture and still believe the Japanese.





grandmaster said:


> what is trolling? saying japan did not do something without witnessing is trolling. i hardly see china get fussy like what japan did. the true is that japan is threatened by china make you, vietnamese, got fussy! i dont know why vietnamese guys got fussy not for their issue. it is funny and trolling i hope next time, china fire real missile at japan, i will see how fussy you are, hahaha
> 
> this is the genocide crime of japanese:



None of what you posted about WW2 has anything to do with the claims against China and the claims which grandmaster seems to be leveling against Japan, you are trying to raise a strawman. If you can't argue my point, then don't bother trying to deflect things back to WW2, a bygone age.

:puts on the kid gloves:
Again grandmaster, for the third time, you are the one who has accused Japanese ships of locking on to Chinese navy ships with weapons radar over the most current dispute. 

You are the one, not China, not anyone else, you. So provide evidence.



Vitchilo said:


> Is China Mobilizing For A War With Japan? | Zero Hedge
> 
> Uh oh.



Vehicles and artillery have no place in a dispute where the Airforce and the Navy are the players. I'm skeptical.

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## gambit

> anon45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Japanese ships actually locked their own weapons radar onto PLA ships,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grandmaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> without any evidence, it is very biased when you said you believed JP had not done so. that is why whatever you told us is just BS and hypocrisy. we never believe in such biased person.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Here is why, on a purely technical basis, Japan's accusation is more credible than China's denial...

China denies putting radar-lock on Japanese warship - CNN.com


> Hong Kong (CNN) -- China on Friday denied accusations by Japan that a Chinese navy vessel had put a radar-lock on a Japanese warship near a group of disputed islands at the heart of a bitter feud between the two Asian nations.



First...






The above is not to scale, of course. It is meant to illustrate the difference in wavelengths.

Second...






In order to have target resolutions and updates of these resolutions:

- Altitude
- Speed
- Heading
- Aspect angle

We must uses pulses as in the second illustration. It does not matter if the target is at ground level or at 100,000 ft. Most radar systems will produce altitude resolution anyway, especially if weapons systems such as missile that flies above sea/ground level, depends on target altitude, even if it is zero, as guidance through data links. And since the missile flies above sea/ground level, its perspective will be different than that of the ship that is providing said guidance. So it will need altitude information about the target.

Each pulse has two timestamps: pulse start and pulse end. This is called 'finite pulse length'.

The longer the duration between these two timestamps, the less fine grain target resolution updates. It make sense because the leading edge of the transmitted pulse will also be the leading edge of the returned (echo) pulse, and if the duration between the return pulse leading edge and trailing edge is long, it will take longer for the radar computer to assess where is that target regarding those four main resolutions. Timing is everything in radar detection.

So if we want high resolution updates, even for a ship moving far slower than an aircraft, we must use shorter pulses. This in turn will make the inter-pulse periods, those 'silent' or no energy pauses, also shorter. It is the 'pulse repetition freq' (PRF) or some would call it 'interval' (PRI). The PRF is usually measured from leading edge to leading edge, or from trailing edge to trailing edge.

To resist countermeasures (ECM), we usually transmit in pulse trains, which is like 100 pulses with uniform finite pulse length and equally uniform PRF. Then we pause and transmit another pulse train of another 100 pulses. Except this time we change this pulse train with regards to amplitude, freq, and PRF. On the next pulse train of 100 pulses, we change those three pulse characteristics again. And again. And so on...

RADAR *PULSE *CHARACTERISTICS


> PULSE REPETITION FREQUENCY(PRF).PRF is the rate at which pulses are transmitted (per second). It controls a radars maximum effective range by dictating the duration of its listening time. *Increased PRF speeds the rate at which targets are repeatedly radiated. This increased sampling results in greater target detail*, but the maximum range of the radar is reduced because of the shorter periods between pulses. The WSR-88D can emit anywhere from 318 to 1304 pulses per second. It has a maximum range of approximately 250 nautical miles (nmi).


Not only that, if it is a moving target, we must sweep our beam, but not in a 360 deg or 180 deg or even 90 deg. We sweep or 'paint' the target only within its dimensions, which we established with the initial scan. In other words, if the ship is 50 meters long, we sweep our beam in approximate to that electrical length. There is no need to overscan the ship. So what this mean is that our scan or 'paint' of the target will be rapidly back and forth.

The problem for China's denial is that the Japanese Navy is fully capable of analyzing any radar scan of its ships and such analysis is completely automatic to distinguish general volume search transmissions, which would be long duration between 'hits' and probably with longer wavelengths, from targeting transmissions, which would be high PRF and with shorter wavelengths, and because of the necessity of high target resolutions update, those 'hits' will be quick in between.

All typical characteristics of weapons targeting radar transmissions.

Japan considers disclosing evidence on China radar lock ? Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion


> TOKYO 
> The Japanese government said on Saturday it was considering disclosing evidence to bolster its claim that a Chinese frigate locked its weapon-targeting radar on a Japanese ship, after Beijing rejected the charge.



Japan *SHOULD NOT* reveal those technical data. Japan have nothing to gain and much to lose in terms of revealing vital technical capabilities to the PLA. The military and engineering communities, which includes China, know that Japan's accusation has valid technical merits. It is within these communities, not the public, that Japan should focus her attention and they do not need to see those data.

To all the Chinese members here, you can get away with being China's mouthpieces and support that denial elsewhere on the Internet.

But not here.

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## anon45

US believes Japan's account of China's radar-locking in East China Sea - The Washington Post

US has been briefed, China did it.


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## grandmaster

anon45 said:


> US believes Japan's account of China's radar-locking in East China Sea - The Washington Post
> 
> US has been briefed, China did it.



so, what vietnamese can do? feel fussy


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## Devil Soul

Published on Feb 12, 2013
Neither China nor Japan is backing down in the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands dispute. Could there be an armed conflict? Could it turn into full-out war? What is at stake? How do the Chinese and Japanese navies compare in strength? And who would pay the heaviest price if there were a conflict?

Two experts, Senior Fellow on Asian Military Affairs at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, Mr. Richard Fisher, and Senior China Analyst at New Tang Dynasty Television, Heng He, give their analysis.


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## Aegis DDG

What's at stake? The sovereignty of Japan from an ever-assertive threat of Chinese domination. The Pacific should be peaceful but China want's an monopoly.

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## cirr

Liuqiu Islands&#65288;what the Japs call Okinawa&#65289;&#12290;


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## indian_foxhound

Tanks, one by one, moving along a main road in
Chinas coastal Fujian province. Driving up
speculations that the Chinese military may be
warming up for war. Local residents took these pictures between
February 3 to February 6. At times, the line of
tanks and artillery blocked traffic for several
miles. And it wasnt just in Fujian province. These
military vehicles were spotted further up the
coast, in neighboring Zhejiang province.
According to dissident website, molihua.org,
these tanks in Hubei province are being
transported from a military base to the coast. The troop movements come after months of
escalating tensions between China and Japan
over the disputed territory of the Diaoyun, or
Senkaku islands and theyre known in Japan. Its
caused international worries that the two
countries may be on the cusp of war. Both sides have scrambled jets and warships in the region.
In January, during naval exercise near the
disputed waters, Chinese warships reportedly
directed their targeting radar at a Japanese
vessel. On February 7, State-run Global Times published
this article saying there is a serious possibility a
military conflict may flare up between China and
Japan. It continues to say that fewer and fewer
people are hopeful for a peaceful resolution to the
Diaoyu Island crisis. Are we in a countdown to war between China
and Japan? NTD will continue to keep you posted
as the situation develops.

http://www.ntdtv.org/en/news/china/2013-02-11/chinese-troop-movements-signal-war-.html


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## BDforever

wooooo ! ! ! thats not good news

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## anon45

Of what use are tanks and artillery against Japan?

Maybe they are beefing up their border with North Korea.


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## KRAIT

Don't think so. Both are intelligent nations. Lets hope they settle the matter with talks.

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## 帅的一匹

CCP dig a secret tunnel to Japan

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## Viet

*China and Japan*
*
Locked on*

*The dangerous dance around disputed islets is becoming ever more worrying
*
The Economist | Feb 9th 2013 | BEIJING AND TOKYO |From the print edition







Senkaku or Diaoyu islands?

*
ARMED conflict between Japan and China* over the five tiny, uninhabited Senkaku or Diaoyu islands still seems improbable. But that does not make it impossible. This week it was revealed just how close their stand-off has come to a shoot-out. On February 5th the Japanese government claimed that six days earlier a Chinese warship had beamed &#8220;fire-control&#8221; radar at a destroyer belonging to Japan&#8217;s Maritime Self-Defence Force some 3 kilometres (2 miles) away&#8212;a step towards shooting a missile at it. &#8220;It was a unilateral, provocative act and extremely regrettable,&#8221; Shinzo Abe, Japan&#8217;s prime minister, told the Diet, or parliament, on February 6th.

*The incident, which occurred about 100km from the Senkakus*, fits a pattern of Chinese sabre-rattling. On January 19th a Chinese frigate is also thought to have &#8220;locked on&#8221; to a Japanese ship-based helicopter. Since September, when Japan&#8217;s government &#8220;nationalised&#8221; three of the islands by buying them from their private owner, China has been challenging not just Japan&#8217;s claim to sovereignty over the Senkakus, but also its control of them. Ships and aircraft from both countries have patrolled the islands, and each has scrambled jet fighters in response to &#8220;incursions&#8221; by the other, leading to a string of aerial and maritime near-misses.
In this section






_Disputed Islands Maps of Japan-China (source: http://en.rian.ru/infographics)_


The *American government*, which takes no official position on who owns the islands, has confirmed that they are covered by its security treaty with Japan. Its diplomats have scurried to Asia in recent weeks, urging restraint and &#8220;cooler heads&#8221;. During the cold war America and the Soviet Union at least established mechanisms to prevent a serious conflict being caused by miscalculation or accident. China and Japan have very few such mechanisms.

Oddly, the January 30th incident came just as tensions seemed to be easing. There was talk of a fence-mending summit between Mr Abe, who took office in December, and Xi Jinping, China&#8217;s new leader. China has been using mainly civilian agencies rather than the navy to patrol the islands. And the Chinese press has not been uniformly bellicose. In Global Times, a Communist Party newspaper whose default mode is tub-thumping nationalism, two commentators this week separately urged caution, recalling China&#8217;s history of being set back in its development by Japanese aggression&#8212;in the 1890s and again in the 1930s and 1940s.

As a result, *some Japanese politicians believe the provocation must have been a low-level decision by a commander on the ship.* Katsuyuki Kawai, a foreign-affairs spokesman for the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, thinks the incident would have embarrassed China, since &#8220;it gives the impression that China is a rogue state&#8221;. He says that the idea that China&#8217;s forces are out of control is the Japanese government&#8217;s &#8220;biggest fear&#8221;.

The alternative, however&#8212;that this is a deliberate policy sanctioned at the highest level&#8212;may be even scarier. And a new study of China&#8217;s foreign policy by Linda Jakobson of the Lowy Institute, an *Australian think-tank*, argues that Chinese treatment of the islands is in fact tightly co-ordinated, with Mr Xi in direct charge as the head of a new office set up to deal with the crisis. She cites an anonymous official involved in the decision-making, who suggests that Mr Xi knows the dangers but is being given &#8220;exaggerated assessments&#8221; by underlings keen that he should take a tough stance.

Akihisa Nagashima, a security adviser in Japan&#8217;s previous government, thinks China is *testing the strength of Japan&#8217;s alliance with America*. Others argue that China&#8217;s objective may also be to undermine Mr Abe, who vowed in his general election campaign to take a strong stand against Chinese claims to the islands.

*A Xi-Abe summit is not guaranteed to take place. As new leaders keen to look strong, neither will find it easy publicly to offer concessions. *Ms Jakobson suggests that, to defuse tensions, the two countries should agree to share fishing rights and to patrol on alternate days. But that is to assume that effective joint control is neither too much for Japan to accept, nor too little for China.

It would require Mr Abe to concede, at least implicitly, that the islands&#8217; sovereignty is disputed, which flies in the face of Japan&#8217;s position. *Mr Abe is due in Washington, DC, later this month.* He must be hoping that President Barack Obama will reaffirm the importance of America&#8217;s security treaty with Japan, and that China will be deterred and will moderate its behaviour. Little that has happened since September, however, suggests that China is inclined that way.

From the print edition: Asia

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## Ayush

i dont think that china and japan(especially japan) would put up their economy at stake for these islands.

a land dispute would have been an other case.


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## Aegis DDG

Ayush said:


> i dont think that china and japan(especially japan) would put up their economy at stake for these islands.
> 
> a land dispute would have been an other case.



Japan is an maritime nation. It's EEZ is just as important as land based territories.

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## RIMPAC

this is the same Indian media propaganda that reports every year that China is going to invade India.
Stop believing Indian media.

There won't be war with Japan, there will be tension but no hot war. Economic development is most important.

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## HongWu

Aegis DDG said:


> What's at stake? The sovereignty of Japan from an ever-assertive threat of Chinese domination. The Pacific should be peaceful but China want's an monopoly.


Too bad... Japan and USA combined aren't powerful enough to stop us..... the first step, Taiwan, the next step, Okinawa and Ryukyu Island chain, the final step, occupation of Tokyo and extraction of wealth


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## HongWu

anon45 said:


> US believes Japan's account of China's radar-locking in East China Sea - The Washington Post
> 
> US has been briefed, China did it.


So it looks like we did smack you on the face real hard. 

Thanks for going public.... we hoped to spare you the humiliation


----------



## GR!FF!N

RIMPAC said:


> this is the same Indian media propaganda that reports every year that China is going to invade India.
> Stop believing Indian media.
> 
> There won't be war with Japan, there will be tension but no hot war. Economic development is most important.



rofll,thats not ndtv.open the link and see for urself.  why always you guys bring india in every topic??


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## Viet

HongWu said:


> Too bad... *Japan and USA combined aren't powerful enough to stop us*..... the first step, Taiwan, the next step, Okinawa and Ryukyu Island chain, the final step, occupation of Tokyo and extraction of wealth


LOL You know what: China can dominate East Asia and Pacific, and we the rest: South East Asia, South China Sea. I think that´s fair.


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## DroneMailini

If there is any conflict, China would heavily rely on missiles, Sub marines and more than 300000 Infantry troops and entire air force, to blunt US. This possibility exists in a future conflict in Taiwan Strait. The idea is to stop US navy from Intervening in the crisis.


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## Zero_wing

Well its history Japanese in WW2 tried that and failed now Chinese are doing the same thing.


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## Transgress

NTD is essentially a joke of a media network completely made up of Anti-China journalists. They are more biased and bigoted than Fox News, and i really don't know why people keep citing them lol.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Transgress said:


> NDTV is indian.......
> NDTV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Nice try



NTDTV is not Indian

New Tang Dynasty Television -- ntdtv.org

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## Knight of Tang

I can see you $hitting wherever there's a thread about China, like a clown jumping really hard but still no one cares...too sad, I am here to save you from it. Don't embarrass yourself anymore kiddo...


Zero_wing said:


> Well its history Japanese in WW2 tried that and failed now Chinese are doing the same thing.


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## anon45

HongWu said:


> So it looks like we did smack you on the face real hard.
> 
> Thanks for going public.... we hoped to spare you the humiliation



you have nothing


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## Transgress

Aegis DDG said:


> What's at stake? The sovereignty of Japan from an ever-assertive threat of Chinese domination. The Pacific should be peaceful but China want's an monopoly.



Really? How many times has China tried to invade Japan in the past 100 years? And vice-versa?


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## Vitchilo

https://twitter.com/W7VOA


> JCG: Chinese ships enter #Japan "territorial waters."


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## Viet

Ayush said:


> i dont think that china and japan(especially japan) would put up their economy at stake *for these islands.*
> a land dispute would have been an other case.


You are wrong. 

These tiny islands are in terms of strategic/military/economic very important. There is no sign that one party will back down. You should know Japan is already suffering under China´s economic war. That´s exactly what the Chinese want.

For instance, Japan needs the Senkakus for its EEZ´s claim. If you take them out, Japan territory will be smaller. See map below.












Japan´s EEZ

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## Ayush

Viet said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> These tiny islands are in terms of strategic/military/economic very important. There is no sign that one party will back down. You should know Japan is already suffering under China´s economic war. That´s exactly what the Chinese want.
> 
> For instance, Japan needs the Senkakus for its EEZ´s claim. If you take them out, Japan territory will be smaller. See map below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan´s EEZ



thank u mate.


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> These tiny islands are in terms of strategic/military/economic very important. There is no sign that one party will back down. You should know Japan is already suffering under China´s economic war. That´s exactly what the Chinese want.
> 
> For instance, Japan needs the Senkakus for its EEZ´s claim. If you take them out, Japan territory will be smaller. See map below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan´s EEZ


It's likely Japan afraid from China's territory claim that have it own EEZ on surrounding water of Island. (like in case of SCS that China claim over 80% SCS). So they will not allow China have it.

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## Viet

I post again the map since it went lost in previous post.





Japan´s EEZ
(Source: website of Japan Coast Guard)


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## Srinivas

*India guarded over Diaoyu dispute, but secretly favors Japan​*





The China-Japan dispute over the Diaoyu Islands seems to be moving nowhere. 

The dispute has arrived at such a stage where finding a solution seems to be a difficult and distant enterprise. Besides, the US National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2013, which specifies that the Diaoyu Islands are subject to the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan, has escalated the bilateral tensions. 

*The US doesn't want to grant any legitimacy to China over the Diaoyu Islands dispute, and therefore openly supports the current Japanese control over the islands and endorses its bilateral treaty with Japan over security matters.* 

Yet Beijing's claim that a war may break out if Japan seeks US support remains quite infantile. 

True, the US-Japan understanding over security matters with regard to the islands has certainly made the issue more complicated. Yet, China must not lose its patience, and shouldn't overreact to the tense situation by threatening war. 

Beijing can take a serious note that any aggressive stance over the island dispute will further escalate the tensions. 

The current dispute needs more dialogue and engagement than anything else. Beijing must aim and plan for diplomatic efforts with Japan, which will make the dispute remain "bilateral" rather than become a regional or global issue. 

China must take note of the fact that although the islands are currently under Japanese control, there is a wide acknowledgement of the Chinese claim at both the regional and international level. 

If Beijing decides to carry out an attack against Japan, China would lose massive amounts of support, and it would fuel the "China threat" theory. Given China's troubled relations with neighboring Southeast Asian countries, Beijing must carefully articulate its view and claim, without really pushing hard for a war.

Beijing must also take note of the fact that a number of countries, including India, are watching the conflict seriously. 

Given the rivalries in Asia, the dispute may encourage other regional powers to take an open stance over the issue. This will be an important development, given that other island disputes still persist between China and Southeast Asian countries. 

In principle, India will restrict itself in taking any open stance or commenting much over the dispute. 

*Indeed, India's official stance is that the Diaoyu Islands dispute should be resolved "peacefully" between Japan and China*. However, India's strategic and original posture over the issue is rather different from its officially stated views. 

The predominant strategic view in India would like to see the dispute go in favor of Japan rather than China. 

This is linked to the earlier Chinese reservation toward India's oil exploration in the South China Sea and, more importantly, the rising Indian interests in the neighboring Southeast Asian region. 

Though New Delhi will refrain from taking any position, India still favors Japan. 

This is primarily for two reasons. India-Japan relations are far better than India-China relations, and India doesn't want to lose Japan as a regional strategic ally by taking an "anti-Japan" stance.

China has been a problem for India and other Southeast Asian countries on the South China Sea issue. So India's pro-Japanese views can further endorse India's stake in the South China Sea, where Japan and Southeast Asian countries like Vietnam and the Philippines will back India and its interests in the region. 

The island dispute is really a complicated matter, but it still remains a bilateral issue between China and Japan. China must think wisely and start a proper dialogue mechanism with Japan, to reduce tensions and try to find a solution. 

India's principal stance is that the dispute should be kept a bilateral one, without interference from outside powers like the US, and can be ultimately resolved within the framework of international law.

The author is a research fellow at the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses, New Delhi. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn


India guarded over Diaoyu dispute, but secretly favors Japan - Globaltimes.cn


----------



## Echo_419

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> No doubt about it, Indians strategists and politicians had bed pellow dream that the dispute on Japan's favor but what else can India do beside dream and keep silence.  Same as Chinese strategists that favor Pakistan over Kashmir issue but our official statement is difference from what we have in mind .



Yeah your official statement Is you will not interfare but what you have in mind is surrender or Mig-21 will bomb Beijing 

Ok sorry for trolling 

China & Japan are 2 mature nations they can solve them peacefully


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Diaoyu is tricky dispute

According to International law both Japan and China are right.

India should abstain


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## StormShadow

---EDITED---


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## Ayush

no doubt about it.i dont find the article surprising.of course we have better relations with japan rather than china.

but of course,india will stay neutral.


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## KRAIT

This stance is double edge sword. We may earn man friends' confidence but loose China which shares border with us. Or, we can use this to ask China to support us in various regions and solve disputes in return of backing off from this.

Indian aggressive policy regarding SCS may have benefits but can equally or more disastrous.


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## KRAIT

StormShadow said:


> Actually I was just about to do that. Going by his logic, Nanking should be the rape capital of the world. Still these morons shamelessly try to score brownie points of somebody being raped. Pathetic!


Actually I don't like that incident to be mentioned to beat these people. I have read a lot about it and its an open wound. Its same like when Pakistanis laugh on India and boast about 26/11.

Its same like they calling Bomb blasts and killing of innocent men, women and children as Jehad to liberate the disputed land.

I got why you are angry. They push us to limit by using Rape threads, banned topic threads.

Leave him. He will be dealt by mods (I hope so). Why get banned over one poster ?

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## StormShadow

KRAIT said:


> Actually I don't like that incident to be mentioned to beat these people. I have read a lot about it and its an open wound. Its same like when Pakistanis laugh on India and boast about 26/11.
> 
> Its same like they calling Bomb blasts and killing of innocent men, women and children as Jehad to liberate the disputed land.
> 
> I got why you are angry. They push us to limit by using Rape threads, banned topic threads.
> 
> Leave him. He will be dealt by mods (I hope so). Why get banned over one poster ?



TY bro edited my post... got carried away.

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## ChineseTiger1986

It is absolutely normal, just like we do openly support Pakistan in the Kashmir dispute.

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## Skull and Bones

So point for stating the obvious, as India and Japan has signed a security pact so the inclination in natural. If we help them in a conflict with China, that remains to be seen.


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## Zero_wing

And yet with all of china divine influence it can bring its case to the UN well killers just love to do more killing than talking right?


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## Hobo1

ChinaToday said:


> getting paid here is way better than harming women on the street dont you think



Wonder why there so many Chinese owned massage parlours in Pakistan. Is China apart from exporting weapons is also exporting .......

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## Sasquatch

*Keep it civil, I have given several members infractions for off topic/trolling. *


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## yusheng

In February 15th, China Marine Surveillance66 ship in the Diaoyu Islands territorial sea cruise. On the same day, China Marine Surveillance 50, 66, 137 ships continue to cruise in the Chinese Diaoyu Islands territorial waters.







In February 15th, China photographing the Diaoyu Islands in the 137 boat.


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## Rechoice

Japan Explores War Scenarios With China






As Japan&#8217;s Liberal Democratic Party national defense task force announced on Jan. 8 that it would increase the nation&#8217;s defense budget by more than 100 billion yen ($1.15 billion), three of five scenarios explored by the defense ministry recently involve the Self-Defense Forces squaring off against the People&#8217;s Liberation Army (PLA).

While contingencies involving North Korea&#8217;s ballistic missiles and Russia were among the scenarios the defense ministry explored, the top three all involved a crisis in the East China Sea. The first scenario examined a war between China and Japan over the disputed Diaoyu/Senkaku islands in the East China Sea. Earlier on Tuesday Japan summoned the Chinese ambassador in Tokyo for the first time since Shinzo Abe was sworn in as prime minister to protest the continued presence of official Chinese ships in waters around the islets, which are claimed by Japan, Taiwan and China.

The second scenario, meanwhile, expands on a Senkaku contingency and looks at a widening war involving PLA attempts to seize the Ishigaki and Miyako Islands west of northern Taiwan.

The third, and perhaps most controversial, scenario focuses on how Japan would react to a Chinese invasion of Taiwan in 2021, a date reportedly chosen because it coincides with the 100th anniversary of the founding of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). According to the scenario, the PLA would rely mostly on amphibious vehicles, special forces, ballistic missiles, and a fighter blockade to achieve its ends.

Although the latter scenario makes it clear that the hostilities would primarily involve the PLA and Taiwanese military forces, it nevertheless raises the possibility that China would attack U.S. and Japanese bases on Okinawa, while using long-range ballistic missiles, such as the DF-21D and DF-31, to threaten aircraft carriers in the region and the Western United States should U.S. forces attempt to intervene in the conflict.

Interestingly, Japan would have a responsibility to come to Taiwan&#8217;s aid in the event the PLA engages Taiwanese forces, the Japanese-language Sankei Shimbun said in its reporting on the scenarios on Jan. 1.

There has been much speculation over the years about whether Tokyo would intervene if the PLA ever invaded Taiwan. Reports in 2007 alleged that Japanese and U.S. officials, alarmed by growing Chinese might, were considering a plan to coordinate their actions under such a contingency, with Japan providing rear-area support for U.S. forces as stipulated under the Guidelines for Japan-U.S. Defense Cooperation. It is no coincidence that the efforts in 2007 also occurred when Abe, who is regarded as pro-Taiwan, was in power.

The two countries late last year also agreed to negotiate possible changes to the bilateral guidelines to better reflect changes in the strategic situation as well as give Japanese forces more room to maneuver.

While the scenarios remain in the realm of speculation, Japan&#8217;s inclusion of a Taiwan contingency again underscores the importance Tokyo places on Taiwan remaining de-facto independent. Certainly, China&#8217;s assertiveness in 2012 in both the East China and the South China Sea has done little to reassure Tokyo that it could live comfortably with a CCP-controlled Taiwan so close to its waters and territory. As such, rather than being amenable to &#8220;abandoning&#8221; Taiwan, as a handful of U.S. academics have been arguing for the sake of &#8220;improved&#8221; ties with Beijing, Tokyo may become more inclined to ensure that the island continues to serve as a natural barrier to Chinese expansion.

According to Japanese sources, the largely symbolic 100 billion yen increase in defense spending announced on Jan. 8 will serve to fund research into a new radar system and to cover fuel and other maintenance costs for early-warning aircraft. But this is only the first step, and there could be many more to come. The defense budget for FY2012 ending in March was just 4.69 trillion yen (US$61 billion), or a little more than 1 percent of GDP, leaving ample room for expansion should Japan&#8217;s strategic environment continue to deteriorate in the weeks ahead. 

Image credit: Wikicommons


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## Viet

National / Politics

*Japan not to disclose evidence of China radar target-lock on MSDF assets*

Kyodo | Feb 19, 2013
The Japan Times





_Targeting: The Chinese frigate Jiangwei II is seen Jan. 30 in the East China Sea at the time the Defense Ministry claims that the ship's weapons control radar locked onto the Maritime Self-Defense Force destroyer Yudachi. | DEFENSE MINISTRY/KYODO_

*
The government will not disclose its evidence of China&#8217;s recent locking of weapons-targeting radar on a Japanese warship because doing so would tip its hand on intelligence operations*, official sources said Monday.

The Liberal Democratic Party-led government had considered disclosure after Beijing denied Japan&#8217;s accusations that a Chinese frigate aimed its weapons radar at a Maritime Self-Defense Force destroyer on Jan. 30 near the disputed Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea at the heart of a bilateral dispute.

*Disclosure poses &#8220;great risk in terms of defense as it would mean that Chinese military authorities would be looking at the MSDF&#8217;s secrets concerning information-gathering operations,&#8221; *a senior Defense Ministry official said.

A government source also said such disclosure would &#8220;difficult&#8221; as the evidence data touch on the &#8220;subtleties&#8221; of Japanese security.

They added that Washington&#8217;s expression of support for Tokyo&#8217;s allegation has also prompted Japan not to disclose the evidence.

The government will not officially announce its nondisclosure of the evidence, however, in a bid to maintain pressure on China, the sources said.
*
Japan has frequency analysis data of radio waves the MSDF warship received from the Chinese ship, photos and footage at the time of the occurrence, according to a Defense Ministry source.*

The Chinese Foreign Ministry has accused Japan of &#8220;spreading false information&#8221; by alleging weapons-targeting radar was directed toward the MSDF ship. It has argued the Chinese frigate used monitoring radar and not fire-control radar.

Tokyo also said a Chinese naval ship was suspected of having directed fire-control radar at an MSDF helicopter on Jan. 19 as the chopper was flying over the East China Sea.

*Japan will continue to closely monitor Chinese vessels and military jets near the islets,* while at the same time keep calling on Beijing to soon engage in a bilateral maritime safety mechanism to avoid an accidental clash.

Political sources said the international community may view Japan&#8217;s decision not to reveal the evidence as a failure to produce an effective argument against China&#8217;s denial.

The radar issue has come as bilateral ties have dropped to the lowest level in years over conflicting sovereignty claims to the Senkaku, which are called Diaoyu in China.

Ties worsened in particular after Japan effectively nationalized the uninhabited chain by purchasing three of the five islands from a private Japanese owner in September.

The purchase was intended by the government then led by the Democratic Party of Japan to &#8220;stably maintain&#8221; the islets, but it sparked a fierce backlash in China.

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## grandmaster

sound like vietnam is jealous with china on everything from south china sea, Diaoyu islands to mining in indian ocean! vietnamese guys should keep being jealous, panic and watch china doing


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## grandmaster

Viet said:


> National / Politics
> 
> *Japan not to disclose evidence of China radar target-lock on MSDF assets*
> 
> Kyodo | Feb 19, 2013
> The Japan Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Targeting: The Chinese frigate Jiangwei II is seen Jan. 30 in the East China Sea at the time the Defense Ministry claims that the ship's weapons control radar locked onto the Maritime Self-Defense Force destroyer Yudachi. | DEFENSE MINISTRY/KYODO_
> 
> *
> The government will not disclose its evidence of China&#8217;s recent locking of weapons-targeting radar on a Japanese warship because doing so would tip its hand on intelligence operations*, official sources said Monday.
> 
> The Liberal Democratic Party-led government had considered disclosure after Beijing denied Japan&#8217;s accusations that a Chinese frigate aimed its weapons radar at a Maritime Self-Defense Force destroyer on Jan. 30 near the disputed Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea at the heart of a bilateral dispute.
> 
> *Disclosure poses &#8220;great risk in terms of defense as it would mean that Chinese military authorities would be looking at the MSDF&#8217;s secrets concerning information-gathering operations,&#8221; *a senior Defense Ministry official said.
> 
> A government source also said such disclosure would &#8220;difficult&#8221; as the evidence data touch on the &#8220;subtleties&#8221; of Japanese security.
> 
> They added that Washington&#8217;s expression of support for Tokyo&#8217;s allegation has also prompted Japan not to disclose the evidence.
> 
> The government will not officially announce its nondisclosure of the evidence, however, in a bid to maintain pressure on China, the sources said.
> *
> Japan has frequency analysis data of radio waves the MSDF warship received from the Chinese ship, photos and footage at the time of the occurrence, according to a Defense Ministry source.*
> 
> The Chinese Foreign Ministry has accused Japan of &#8220;spreading false information&#8221; by alleging weapons-targeting radar was directed toward the MSDF ship. It has argued the Chinese frigate used monitoring radar and not fire-control radar.
> 
> Tokyo also said a Chinese naval ship was suspected of having directed fire-control radar at an MSDF helicopter on Jan. 19 as the chopper was flying over the East China Sea.
> 
> *Japan will continue to closely monitor Chinese vessels and military jets near the islets,* while at the same time keep calling on Beijing to soon engage in a bilateral maritime safety mechanism to avoid an accidental clash.
> 
> Political sources said the international community may view Japan&#8217;s decision not to reveal the evidence as a failure to produce an effective argument against China&#8217;s denial.
> 
> The radar issue has come as bilateral ties have dropped to the lowest level in years over conflicting sovereignty claims to the Senkaku, which are called Diaoyu in China.
> 
> Ties worsened in particular after Japan effectively nationalized the uninhabited chain by purchasing three of the five islands from a private Japanese owner in September.
> 
> The purchase was intended by the government then led by the Democratic Party of Japan to &#8220;stably maintain&#8221; the islets, but it sparked a fierce backlash in China.



it is just because ABE does not have a pair of balls! china is not vietnam!


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## yusheng

Japan and U.S. Ignored Chinese Signals and History, Blundering into the Senkaku/Diaoyu Crisis
Stephen Harner



Japan and U.S. Ignored Chinese Signals and History, Blundering into the Senkaku/Diaoyu Crisis - Forbes







English: President Barack Obama talks with Chinese President Hu Jintao during the morning plenary session of the G-20 Pittsburgh Summit at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Former students of Asian politics and international relations of a certain age (my age, or a bit older), would in college or graduate school have heard of, if not carefully read, China Crosses the Yalu: The Decision to Enter the Korean War, by Allen S. Whiting (1960). This was a seminal study of formal or&#8211;mainly&#8211;informal signals sent by China in 1950 warning with increasing clarity and vehemence the officially U.N. (but overwhelmingly U.S.) forces under command of Douglas MacArthur, then beating back North Korea invaders and advancing up the Korea peninsula, that China was prepared to and would intervene on behalf of North Korea if its territory or vital interests were threatened. 

In the event, on October 25,1950, 25 days after U.N. forces had crossed the 38th parallel, 200,000 Chinese People&#8217;s Liberation Army (redesignated by Mao Zedong the People&#8217;s Volunteer Army) soldiers, having secretly crossed the Yalu River on October 19, attacked U.N. forces, beginning an engagement that would vastly increase casualties on both sides, but especially for the PLA. Whiting&#8217;s book sought to discern at what point China&#8217;s in many cases subtle and indirect warnings might have been heeded or responded so that intervention might have been avoided. 

I have been reminded of China Crosses the Yalu as I have worked through the new book on the Senkaku/Diaoyu island crisis by Yabuki Susumu (&#30690;&#21561;&#26187, professor emeritus of Yokohama City University, one of Japan&#8217;s most eminent China scholars. The book (written in Japanese) is entitled:&#12300;&#23574;&#38307;&#21839;&#38988;&#12398;&#26680;&#24515; &#12301;(The Core of the Senkaku Issue), and bears a subtitle:&#12300;&#26085;&#20013;&#38306;&#20418;&#12399;&#12393;&#12358;&#12394;&#12427;&#12301; (What is to Become of Japan-China Relations). I believe that the book is the fairest and most objective, as well as the most thorough, exposition of the positions of both Japan and China, and&#8211;critically&#8211;the U.S., on the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands dispute. 

At the risk of oversimplifying, I think I can summarize Professor Yabuki&#8217;s analysis and conclusions as follows: 

_1.The Japanese position on the Senkaku/Diaoyu issue is indefensible on several counts, including most fundamentally Japan&#8217;s unconditional acceptance of the terms of the Potsdam Declaration (which required the return of all territories &#8220;stolen&#8221; from China).

2.The Meiji government&#8217;s annexation of the Ryuku Islands (theretofore an autonomous kingdom) in January 1885, within which the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands were identified, followed three months later by the Qing Dynasty&#8217;s surrender of Taiwan and the Pescadores to Japan in the Treaty of Shimonoseki (ending the Sino-Japanese War) are both mooted by the terms of Potsdam. The islands were and are clearly part of Taiwan, which in addition has the most legitimate claim to continuous use/occupation.

3.The Japanese position that Senkaku/Diaoyu is part of Japanese territory because it was awarded to Japan by the U.S. in the Okinawa Reversion agreement of 1971 is similarly contrary to fact. The U.S. awarded to Japan only administrative authority over the islands, not sovereignty. Sovereignty was specifically not transferred. The U.S. continued to maintain was undetermined between the three claimants and would only be determined through discussion and agreement. (As I noted in the last post, the Obama administration&#8211;in a monumental blunder&#8211;effectively changed this policy by failing to object to and stop Japanese &#8220;nationalization.&#8221

4.Japanese policy&#8211;and particularly public misunderstanding&#8211;has been based on the false assertion, uttered by then foreign minister Fukuda Takeo in testimony to the Upper House of Diet on December15, 1971 that Okinawa Reversion had accomplished the restoration of Japanese sovereignty over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands. Whether Fukuda misunderstood the issue, or intended to deliberately deceive the country through this testimony is unclear.

5.The Chinese position on handling the territorial issue was, before Japanese &#8220;nationalization,&#8221; grounded on the 1972 agreement between Prime Minister Tanaka Kakue-Premier Zhou Enlai, when the terms of Japan-China diplomatic relations were determined, to &#8220;shelve&#8221; the issue&#8211;i.e., to avoid any acts that sought to enforce one side&#8217;s claim to sovereignty.

6.Yabuki cites his own research and authoritative third party sources to charge that the Japanese Ministry of Finance removed from official transcripts of the Tanaka-Zhou discussions that agreement to &#8220;shelve&#8221; the issue, allowing future Japanese governments to fraudulently claim that the issue was not discussed and that China asserted a claim over the islands.

7.Under the circumstances above, the decision of the Noda government to &#8220;nationalize&#8221; the islands was a grave provocation, a fundamental change in the status quo, tantamount from the Chinese point of view to aggression and forceful annexation of Chinese territory. An equivalently forceful Chinese response to &#8220;balance&#8221; the level of its sovereign claim was inevitable._

What has reminded me of Whiting&#8217;s study are the many signals sent by China since the beginning of the current crisis (which might be traced back to the fishing boat incidence in 2010). In December 2011 I posted on the humiliation meted out to PM Noda during a short, seemingly purposeless&#8211;and certainly fruitless&#8211;trip made to Beijing. Already, Japan-China relations had cooled to near freezing. Professor Yabuki chronicles the many signals of trouble as Chinese concern over the direction of Japanese policy grew. These included the refusal of Hu Jintao in February in to meet a top level delegation of seven of Japan organizations&#8217; heads in Beijing to commemorate the 40th anniversary of restoration of diplomatic relations. The last minute cancellations of a scheduled visit to Hu Deping, son of Japan&#8217;s last &#8220;sympathizer&#8221; in the Beijing leadership, Hu Yaobang, and a visit of China&#8217;s most senior uniformed military officer, Guo Boxiong, in May. 

What concerns Yabuki most is that these signals, among many others, were hardly noticed or appreciated in Japan. Yet, they were leading to what became almost a complete breakdown in communications with China. The almost farcical, but deeply tragic, denouement of this breakdown was the &#8220;16 minute standing dialogue&#8221; between Hu Jintao and Noda held on the sidelines of the APEC conference in Vladivostok on September 9 at which each side delivered its ultimatum.

The Noda Cabinet decided the next day to implement nationalization and the following day paid the money and signed documentation. It is now very hard to believe that anyone expected Japan&#8217;s decision to have the effect of de-escalating the crisis. If anyone did they were making the same mistakes as Truman and MacArthur in 1950.

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## Rechoice

grandmaster said:


> sound like vietnam is jealous with china on everything from south china sea, Diaoyu islands to mining in indian ocean! vietnamese guys should keep being jealous, panic and watch china doing



What china is doing now ? lying and threat !


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## zxmint

Rechoice said:


> What china is doing now ? lying and threat !



You are quite humorous buddy! Thanks for the last vivid image~~~~


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## Rechoice

zxmint said:


> You are quite humorous buddy! Thanks for the last vivid image~~~~



Good boy.

image show what chinese do now.


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## zxmint

Do you know Chinese Characters just as your ancestors did? We never called it as &#40060;&#38035;&#23707; but &#38035;&#40060;&#23707;. Tell you what, if I were you, I will never try to form a alliance with Japanese. I would use it as a stake in negotiation with China and try to get some more interests as return.
Sorry, I forget about something. Anyway, nobody cares how you or your government view Diaoyu Island's issue. It is none of your business and if you want to make a difference, become US first. LOL


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## Soryu

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Can you provide a photograph of the original map/documents showing/substantiating that the Senkakus WAS part of China??? Did any of the documents said the they were part of China or the documents only described the islands??? Is this another China's proving her sovereignty by propaganda only???
> 
> What's the basis of China's claim over the Senkakus??? Discovery??? Discovery does not equate to ownership. Naming it??? Naming it does not make it yours. Traditional fishing grounds??? Traditional fishing grounds doesn't equate to sovereignty. Some ancient Chinese traders passed there??? Does not also equate to sovereignty. Did China developed the Senkakus??? What the hell did you develop? Did China conducted economic activities on the island??? Did China exercised effective jurisdiction and effective occupation over the Senkakus??? Did China admistered the Senkakus??? What did China administered there??? Did China erected any structure or lighthouse there??? Did the Japanese expelled any Chinese garrison there in the Senkakus???
> 
> I don't think China CAN prove her claims by just telling to all people that &#8220;China owns this and that&#8221; since in ancient times.


Good points and good question! 


gambit said:


> As you wish...
> 
> The Inconvenient Truth Behind the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands - NYTimes.com
> 
> 
> The Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands: A Japanese Scholar Responds - NYTimes.com
> 
> You really think I am as deceitful as so many of your fellow Chinese on this forum?


Many chinese alway like that, )


KirovAirship said:


> Who told you that [All Chinese = Han]
> It is not "I said so", it is the Fact.
> 
> Mongolian Chinese and Han Chinese both establish Chinese history.
> Han Chinese: Ming, Song, Jing...
> Mongolian Chinese: Yuan, Northern Yuan.
> Any more confusion?


I think you used worng term so it'll be mistake: a half of Mongolian was living in Inner Mongolia, a part of PRC which you mean!?


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## WuMaoCleverbot

ahfatzia said:


> *A Qing dynasty volume with a yellowed title page in bold, black characters from the 1760s about Ryukyuan students sits on display in a glass case at the Imperial College in Beijing on Wednesday. Chinese scholars say that the 18th century book is evidence that the Diaoyu Islands are part of China's territory. Photo: AFP
> *



The Senkaku Islands Constitute
an Intrinsic Part of Japan
By Hiromichi Moteki,
Director of the Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact

Excerpt:

The Xi tai hou Rescript (granting islands to Sheng Xuanhuai)

5)*The Xi tai hou rescript is definitely a fak*e. The rescript stems from a story 
about Sheng Xuanhuai (Chinese: &#30427;&#23459;&#25079;; a businessman and politician during the 
Qing Dynasty) who is said to have ventured to three islands--Uotsuri, Kobisho 
and Sekibisho--to harvest Chinese wormwood, manufacturing the herb into tablets 
and presenting the tablets to Cixi tai hou (Chinese: &#24904;&#31143;&#22826;&#21518;, aka: Xi tai hou). In 
appreciation of the herb&#8223;s efficacy, the empress ordered the issuance of a rescript 
to bestow the three islands on Sheng Xuanhuai in 1893. 
The reasons why the rescript is a fake are as follows.
Sekibisho Island is a barren rock where virtually nothing grows. As for Kuba 
and Uotsuri islands, Koga was there undertaking his development projects around 
that time. And, not only are there no records of activities of a wormwood harvest 
by Chinese, there are no records of any herbs being produced in the islands. 
If the Qing Dynasty considered these islands to be its territories, why did it not 
object to the continuous activities by the Japanese starting in the early Meiji era 
and continuing for 28 years to 1895, which included explorations and surveys, 
along with depicting the islands as Japanese territory on maps? There was also 
the matter of Japanese occupation dating from 1895. How is it possible the 
dynasty never objected?
*There are irregularities in the format of the rescript. It is dated with month of 
October only, lacking a day of the month. And, the privy seal embossed on the 
rescript is the wrong one. 
Furthermore, it has been confirmed that Sheng Xuanhuai was not the minister 
of ceremonies (Chinese: &#22826;&#24120;&#23546;&#27491 in 1893 contrary to that specified in the 
rescript. This means mistakes were made in making the fake. This alone leads to 
a conclusion that the rescript was fabricated. *
The bestowment of the islands was not recorded in any documents, including 
the Qing Shilu (Chinese: &#28165;&#23455;&#37682, Donghualu (Chinese: &#26481;&#33775;&#37682, and Donghua 
xulu (Chinese: &#26481;&#33775;&#32113;&#37682. And yet, it would be unheard of for the bestowing of 
lands to go unrecorded. 

http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/79_S4.pdf

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Beijing cuts access to documents 'that support Japan's claim to Diaoyus'*
Julian Ryall in Tokyo
Saturday, 02 February, 2013, 12:00am

Japan's Jiji Press news agency says the Chinese Foreign Ministry has been "strictly limiting" access to its archives since the start of this year because they might contain documents that support Tokyo's claim to the Senkaku - or Diaoyu - Islands.

In a story from Beijing, the agency reported that unidentified Chinese researchers said they suspected the limits on access had been imposed as a result of a document that a Jiji Press journalist had found in the archives in December.

Jiji said the 10-page document was a draft outline on territorial disputes to be used as the basis of a peace treaty with Japan that was produced by the Chinese government in May 1950.

Throughout the document, the Chinese reportedly refer to the disputed islands as the Senkakus and describe them as part of the Ryukyu chain, in modern-day Okinawa prefecture.

The document has been widely cited in Japan as evidence that China made no claim of sovereignty until reserves of oil and natural gas were located in nearby waters in the early 1970s.

In response to a query about why access was being restricted, Hong Lei , a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry in Beijing, told Jiji the archive was "in the process of updating its computer system for technical reasons".

Beijing cuts access to documents 'that support Japan's claim to Diaoyus' | South China Morning Post


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## Viet

*Abe: China stirs up rows to build support at home*


The Washington Post
Feb 21, 2013






Gear up: Prime Minister Shinzo Abe waves at Tokyo's Haneda airport Thursday as he departs for Washington. | AP


*China has a &#8220;deeply ingrained&#8221; need to spar with Japan and other Asian neighbors over territory, because the ruling Communist Party uses the disputes to maintain strong domestic support*, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said in an interview.

Clashes with neighbors, notably Japan, play to popular opinion, Abe said, given a* Chinese education system that emphasizes patriotism and &#8220;anti-Japanese sentiment.&#8221;*

Abe&#8217;s theory on the entrenched motivation behind China&#8217;s recent naval aggression helps explain why he has spent more effort trying to counter the Chinese than make peace with them: He thinks the fierce dispute with China over the Japan-held Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea isn&#8217;t going away anytime soon.

Abe spoke about China in what aides described as unusually detailed terms, laying out challenges that Chinese leaders might face if other parts of Asia, unnerved by Beijing&#8217;s maritime expansionism, decide to reduce trade and other economic ties. *China&#8217;s government would be hurt by such moves, Abe said, because without economic growth, it &#8220;will not be able to control the 1.3 billion people . . . under the one-party rule.&#8221;*

*Abe also laid out his plans for deterrence*, which include boosting military spending and strengthening ties with *Thailand*, *Vietnam*, *Indonesia *and other nations that share concerns about Beijing. Abe, who is to meet Friday with *President Barack Obama* in Washington, said the U.S. presence in Asia is &#8220;critical&#8221; to deter China from taking territory controlled by other countries.

His comments came in an interview Saturday with The Washington Post, which The Post was granted on condition that the article not be published until Abe was departing for Washington.

In recent years, China has played an increasingly boisterous role in the South China Sea, claiming a massive sphere of territory that includes some of the world&#8217;s most trafficked shipping lanes and overlaps with claims of a half-dozen other countries. For Japan, the dispute with China focuses on the remote Senkakus in the East China Sea, islets China calls the Diaoyu. Tensions heated up in September after the central government purchased three of the islets after previously renting them, thereby nationalizing the whole chain.

*&#8220;What is important first and foremost,&#8221; Abe said, &#8220;is to make (China) realize that they would not be able to change the rules or take away somebody&#8217;s territorial water or territory by coercion or intimidation.&#8221;
*
Abe&#8217;s assessment of China sounds like a version of the one that experts in Beijing give of Japan, which they say has shifted to the right on foreign policy and security issues in a bid to recover clout and pride lost during two decades of economic stagnation. Abe&#8217;s criticism of Chinese education is also notable because, during his first stint as prime minister six years ago, he revised a law to encourage a more patriotic curriculum in Japan&#8217;s classrooms.

Abe became prime minister for a second time in December, after making a string of far-right campaign pledges to revise the pacifist Constitution and loosen certain restrictions on the armed forces. He also promised to be tougher on China than the previous government of the moderate Democratic Party of Japan.

But two months into his term, Abe looks more like a pragmatist than a strident nationalist, focusing mainly on a new, and so far successful, economic policy to weaken the yen and spur inflation.* His latest popularity rating is 71 percent*, according to the Yomiuri newspaper, a stunning mark in a nation that has cycled through six consecutive one-year leaders.

&#8220;I have succeeded already in changing the general mood and atmosphere that was prevalent in Japan,&#8221; Abe said.

The question is whether Abe will change course and begin pushing for his controversial rightwing hobbyhorses after the July Upper House election, which could help his Liberal Democratic Party build an overwhelming majority and leave Abe emboldened.

One concern is that Abe may try to water down earlier government apologies for atrocities committed by Japan during the war. Abe, in the interview, said he would someday like to make a &#8220;future-oriented&#8221; statement aimed at Japan&#8217;s neighbors, but he did not elaborate on what its message would be.

*Beijing *has responded to Japan&#8217;s nationalization of the Senkakus by sending surveillance ships and aircraft into Japanese territory, drawing Japan into a risky showdown in which the neighbors chase each other around the waters and airspace around the uninhabited rocky outcroppings. Any armed conflict could draw in the U.S., which is treaty-bound to protect Japan.

While historical animosities are at the root of Japan&#8217;s territorial dispute with China, the maritime conflict is relatively new. During the interview, Abe portrayed China&#8217;s actions as part of a 35-year shift that began when the Communist Party opened its once-controlled economy. China&#8217;s government has since had to abandon the hope of nationwide economic equality &#8212; &#8220;one of its pillars of legitimacy,&#8221; Abe said &#8212; forcing it to create &#8220;some different pillars,&#8221; including rapid economic growth and patriotism.

*&#8220;What is unfortunate, however,&#8221; Abe added, &#8220;is that in the case of China, teaching patriotism (is equivalent to) teaching anti-Japanese sentiment. In other words, their education policy of teaching patriotism has become even more pronounced as they started the reform and opening policy.&#8221;*

Abe said China&#8217;s tactics at sea are yielding &#8220;strong support&#8221; domestically. Those tactics, some analysts say, also could prove financially lucrative if China gains control of shipping lanes and access to rich fishing territory, and extracts hydrocarbon reserves.

*But Abe warned China&#8217;s sparring with its neighbors could backfire, potentially undermining trade partnerships and causing skittishness among foreign investors.
*
&#8220;Such behavior is going to have an effect on their economic activity at the end of the day,&#8221; he said, &#8220;because it will lead to losing the confidence of the international community, which will result in less investments in China. I believe it is fully possible to have China (change its) policy once they gain that recognition.&#8221;

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## Snomannen

Soryu said:


> I think you used worng term so it'll be mistake: a half of Mongolian was living in Inner Mongolia, a part of PRC which you mean!?



1. Nowadays, more than half of Mongolian in the world are the people of the PRC;
2. These Mongolian, also called the Golden Family, are the direct posterity of Genghis Khan. Outer Mongolian are not;
3. Han and Mongolian are both belong to a group -the Chinese Ethnics Group. Han and Mongolian and both Chinese.



zxmint said:


> You know what, the whole Mogol was still China's territory even during the WWII.
> 
> There is another thing. If Japanese really occupied whole China in WWII, then big congrats, since China would have one more minority just like Man after Qing Dynasty and Mongolian after Yuan Dynasty .



If Japan really occupied China, "China" would have no longer existed. 

Think about it.


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## jhungary

Set aside all Claim and Maps......

International Law does not swing that way. Many people don't even know how internation law settle this kind of issue and just blown up and down and claim oh it was in our map so it must be ours. 

There are no "Calling Dips" on international law. The Current UN Charter and Public Law Forum only regonise one thing and one thing only about soverign Claim. That's a* governed settlement* on a land mass.

International law does not care who have what printed on their maps first. As long as the land mass is ungoverned, it's of Terra Nullius clause. Whic hmean land belong to no one. You can chart something on the maps as a reference, if you do not govern it, it does not belong to you.

If you want to know more, i suggested that you guys check out a post i posted a few months ago.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/222879-anyone-even-know-how-land-dispute-resolved.html

The Inconvenient Truth is, nobody know jack **** about how Sovereignty is claimed.

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## Vitchilo

> China has a &#8220;deeply ingrained&#8221; need to spar with Japan and other Asian neighbors over territory, because the ruling Communist Party uses the disputes to maintain strong domestic support, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said in an interview.


Abe is totally right on that.

But Abe is guilty of the same thing... he does this so people focus on that instead of the disastrous Japanese economy and the insane printing he's doing.

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## shuttler

> China has a &#8220;deeply ingrained&#8221; need to spar with Japan and other Asian neighbors over territory, because the ruling Communist Party uses the disputes to maintain strong domestic support, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said in an interview.



He is spot on speaking about his own political gameplay, stirring up the sentiments of japanese right wings and the the general civilians by cultivating a "China Threat" atmosphere. 

Hey, the same applies to vietnam, usa, philippines, india ... and the birth of so many &#8221;department of concern&#8220; thereby these people are using it as conduits for military budget expansion, foreign aid, and diverting attentions from their internal woes&#65281;

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## shuttler

S. Korea slams Japan for event claiming Dokdo islets

EOUL, Feb. 22 (Yonhap) -- The South Korean government criticized Japan on Friday for holding an event to promote its territorial claims to South Korea's easternmost islets of Dokdo, and urged it to drop the "unjustifiable and meaningless" arguments.

Conflicts have grown over Dokdo after Tokyo has renewed its territorial claims to the rocky outcroppings in the East Sea, or the body of water between the Korean Peninsula and Japan.

Souring the relations even further, Japan's Shimane Prefecture, which claims administrative sovereignty over the islets, designated Feb. 22 as a day to promote Takeshima, the Japanese name for Dokdo, in 2006, and has since hosted various programs to strengthen its claims on the day, with no exception this year.






_A group of students visited South Korea's easternmost islets of Dokdo and read a resolution on Feb. 21, 2013, calling on Japan to cancel the event held by Japan which aims to promote its territorial claims. (Yonhap file photo)
_
"The South Korean government once again sternly urged Japan to abolish ordinances about the designation of the Dokdo day and to immediately stop unjustifiable territorial claims to Dokdo," foreign ministry spokesman Cho Tai-young said in a statement. 
The Seoul government in particular criticized Japan for its dispatch of Aiko Shimajiri, a parliamentary secretary with the Cabinet Office, to the event. Her attendance marks the first time that the central government had its senior official attend the ceremony.

"We expressed deep regrets over and strongly protested Tokyo's sending of a government official to such an unjustifiable event," Cho said, calling on it to show "a genuine willingness for the bilateral development by stopping its unjustifiable and meaningless territorial rights."

Declaring once again that the islets are "an integral part of Korean territory historically, geographically and under international law," the South Korean government vowed "stern responses to any attempt to violate its territorial rights."

South Korea keeps a small police detachment on the islets, effectively controlling them.

In protest against the event, Seoul's foreign ministry summoned Takashi Kurai, Japan's deputy chief in Seoul, and sent a diplomatic document to express regret and convey South Korea's resolute stance on the issue, according to the ministry officials. 





_Takashi Kurai, Japan's deputy chief of mission in Seoul, enters the South Korean foreign ministry building in Seoul on Feb. 22, 2013, after being summoned by the Seoul government in protest against Japan's event to promote its territorial claim to South Korea's easternmost islets of Dokdo. (Yonhap)
_
The provocative act drew protests from high-profile figures in South Korea as well as from the public nationwide.

Kim Kwan-yong, governor of North Gyeongsang Province which administers the district of the Dokdo islets, issued a statement earlier in the day denouncing the Japanese central government for sending an official to the event.

"The decision to send a vice-ministerial figure to the ceremony constitutes a grave criminal act," Kim said. "The provocation riddled with such an inflammatory politics and regressive historical concept deserves criticism." 
In front of the Japanese embassy in downtown Seoul, some 100 people held a press conference demanding that Tokyo abolish its day laying claims to South Korea's islets and to stop holding such events.

In a letter delivered to the Japanese embassy, the group said they have been trying "to regard Japan as a neighbor and to share their sorrow inflicted by the earthquake and tsunami," and asked Japan to be "a true neighbor instead of seeking an aggressive attitude."

During the press conference, a 58-year-old local taxi driver tried to slash himself with a knife in protest against the Japanese event, but he only received minor injuries before police convinced him to stop.

Seo Kyoung-duk, a professor at Sungshin Women's University and an activist promoting Seoul's territorial rights, said he sent packages of data, including leaflets and relevant documents, verifying Seoul's ownership of Dokdo to about 120 Japanese newspapers and broadcasting firms last week.

Popular South Korean singer Kim Jang-hoon, also well known for his activities supporting South Korea's ownership of Dokdo, unveiled his plan to launch an online campaign to encourage local social network service users to spread photos of the islets.

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## shuttler

Russia braces for Japan &#8216;propaganda&#8217; as territorial disputes flare

February 05, 2013





_A general view shows the coastline on Kunashir, part of a disputed chain of islands known as the Southern Kuriles in Russia and the Northern Territories in Japan (Reuters / Yuri Maltsev)_

Tokyo is preparing to promote Japan&#8217;s position regarding its territorial dispute with Russia, as well as with other Pacific nations, by opening a new government agency.

In an effort to win over global opinion over the disputed South Kuril Islands, Tokyo&#8217;s new government agency, called the Territorial Sovereignty Office of Planning and Coordination, will &#8220;address issues involving territories and sovereignty,&#8221; Yoshihide Suga, Japanese chief cabinet secretary, told a news conference in Tokyo on Tuesday.

The South Kurils &#8211; comprised of Kunashir, Shikotan, Iturup and the Habomai Rocks &#8211; fell under control of the Soviet Union at the end of World War II and are now considered part of the Russian Federation. Tokyo, meanwhile, argues that the Northern Territories, as it calls the island chain, are Japanese property and should be returned.

The dispute, which continues to hamper Russian-Japanese relations, prevented a formal peace treaty from being signed between Moscow and Tokyo following the end of World War II.

According to Suga, the new office will be assigned the task of studying and analyzing the positions of other countries regarding the issue of territorial problems.

Japan has territorial problems with nearly all of its closest neighbors &#8211; Russia, China, and South Korea.

In addition to laying claim to the South Kuril Islands, Japan also declares ownership of the uninhabited Dokdo Islands (called &#8216;Takeshima&#8217; by Japan), which are now administered by South Korea.

The territorial dispute between Tokyo and Seoul escalated in August 2012, when South Korea's then-President Lee Myung-bak paid a visit to Dokdo, triggering a harsh response from Japan.

Moscow has reiterated on many occasions that the South Kurils are an integral part of Russian territory, however, in 2011, then-President Medvedev invited Japan to work with Russia in the South Kurils.

"We are prepared for the joint use of the islands, to offer opportunities for investment, to protect Japanese investment and create conditions for doing business,&#8221; Medvedev said.

Tokyo, for its part, argued that the two countries should first solve their sovereignty dispute over the islands before there can be any talk of joint initiatives.

Meanwhile, Tokyo is involved in yet another territorial dispute with China over a group of uninhabited islands in the East Asian Sea &#8211; known as the Diaoyu in China and the Senkaku in Japan &#8211; that both nations claim.

Robert Bridge, RT

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Chinese Buoys Are Focus of Latest Dispute Over Contested Islands*
By MARTIN FACKLER
February 22, 2013

TOKYO  Japan has asked the Chinese government to explain why Chinese ships have strategically placed several buoys in the East China Sea near a group of disputed islands, a Japanese government spokesman said on Friday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/world/asia/chinese-buoys-focus-of-latest-dispute-with-japan-over-islands.html?ref=asia&_r=0

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## Soryu

zxmint said:


> There are several basic points needs notice:
> 1. Where did it happen?
> Even the Japanese admit that it happened in open sea.
> 
> 2. What was PLA NAVY and the Japanese doing out there?
> The fleet of PLA NAVY was in a normal drills, while what Japanese did is offensively interference and spying , even got as close as 3 nautical mile. Not to mention their flying over helicopters. That is absolutely dangerous behavior and the Japanese have been keeping doing this for decades! If PLA NAVY want to shoot them, they dont need to use a radar at all.
> 
> 3. Why do Japanese hype this event?
> Russians used to shoot their ships and killed several fishers of them, they were quite silent. At this time, Chinese have not shoot a single bullet and do not even catch a Japanese,while the Japs are barking like dogs. Why? This watch dog wants to make use of its host&#65281;What a shameless, funny dog! They are bargaining with Washington to give it more support and the goal is to realize its normalization and modify its Peace Constitution.


Insult words not help anything but show your personal like a idiot.
Argument without proof is nothing but theory, and not help for real
And you very funny like a clown! What did they used to point their gun and missile on others naval ship if it's not radar (sensor)!?

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## Soryu

I want to ask you @Hu Songshan, If you even consider rest my post from #590 like Flame/Fighting, and you deleted them, Why did you still let this post on there!?
I just said about common sense when disscuses, right or wrong on Diaoyu/Senkaku Is., I did not saying anything related with SCS, yet some Chinese just want become master on here, bring SCS on here and push on my mouth!
If There is a rule don't allow another member step in Chinese member topic in this box, so Could anyone with their foul language mouth show me that!? 


terranMarine said:


> Diaoyu Island is not part of Vietnam or Philippines, so why are these *dogs* sticking their nose over and over again into this dispute between China and Japan? They want a piece of the pie of the islands? Even their government isn't meddling with it, they should be worrying about SCS instead acting like a Japanese pet doing all the supporting work.


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## Sasquatch

Soryu said:


> I want to ask you @Hu Songshan, If you even consider rest my post from #590 like Flame/Fighting, and you deleted them, Why did you still let this post on there!?
> I just said about common sense when disscuses, right or wrong on Diaoyu/Senkaku Is., I did not saying anything related with SCS, yet some Chinese just want become master on here, bring SCS on here and push on my mouth!
> If There is a rule don't allow another member step in Chinese member topic in this box, so Could anyone with their foul language mouth show me that!?



Hi @Soryu, I want to keep this thread on the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands thread not the SCS issue hence I have deleted most of the comments that were flame/fighting, there is plenty of off topic material that contributes to fighting, your post happened to be apart of it and it would only contribute more negative comments. As for the post you showed on with the insult unfortunately it did not delete while I was removing most of them thank you for bringing it to my attention . Now if someone makes a offense post or troll post do not reply to it otherwise you are simply feeding them let me handle it. Threads are open to everyone just keep it civil and stick to the topic.


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## grandmaster

shuttler said:


> S. Korea slams Japan for event claiming Dokdo islets
> 
> EOUL, Feb. 22 (Yonhap) -- The South Korean government criticized Japan on Friday for holding an event to promote its territorial claims to South Korea's easternmost islets of Dokdo, and urged it to drop the "unjustifiable and meaningless" arguments.
> 
> Conflicts have grown over Dokdo after Tokyo has renewed its territorial claims to the rocky outcroppings in the East Sea, or the body of water between the Korean Peninsula and Japan.
> 
> Souring the relations even further, Japan's Shimane Prefecture, which claims administrative sovereignty over the islets, designated Feb. 22 as a day to promote Takeshima, the Japanese name for Dokdo, in 2006, and has since hosted various programs to strengthen its claims on the day, with no exception this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A group of students visited South Korea's easternmost islets of Dokdo and read a resolution on Feb. 21, 2013, calling on Japan to cancel the event held by Japan which aims to promote its territorial claims. (Yonhap file photo)
> _
> "The South Korean government once again sternly urged Japan to abolish ordinances about the designation of the Dokdo day and to immediately stop unjustifiable territorial claims to Dokdo," foreign ministry spokesman Cho Tai-young said in a statement.
> The Seoul government in particular criticized Japan for its dispatch of Aiko Shimajiri, a parliamentary secretary with the Cabinet Office, to the event. Her attendance marks the first time that the central government had its senior official attend the ceremony.
> 
> "We expressed deep regrets over and strongly protested Tokyo's sending of a government official to such an unjustifiable event," Cho said, calling on it to show "a genuine willingness for the bilateral development by stopping its unjustifiable and meaningless territorial rights."
> 
> Declaring once again that the islets are "an integral part of Korean territory historically, geographically and under international law," the South Korean government vowed "stern responses to any attempt to violate its territorial rights."
> 
> South Korea keeps a small police detachment on the islets, effectively controlling them.
> 
> In protest against the event, Seoul's foreign ministry summoned Takashi Kurai, Japan's deputy chief in Seoul, and sent a diplomatic document to express regret and convey South Korea's resolute stance on the issue, according to the ministry officials.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Takashi Kurai, Japan's deputy chief of mission in Seoul, enters the South Korean foreign ministry building in Seoul on Feb. 22, 2013, after being summoned by the Seoul government in protest against Japan's event to promote its territorial claim to South Korea's easternmost islets of Dokdo. (Yonhap)
> _
> The provocative act drew protests from high-profile figures in South Korea as well as from the public nationwide.
> 
> Kim Kwan-yong, governor of North Gyeongsang Province which administers the district of the Dokdo islets, issued a statement earlier in the day denouncing the Japanese central government for sending an official to the event.
> 
> "The decision to send a vice-ministerial figure to the ceremony constitutes a grave criminal act," Kim said. "The provocation riddled with such an inflammatory politics and regressive historical concept deserves criticism."
> In front of the Japanese embassy in downtown Seoul, some 100 people held a press conference demanding that Tokyo abolish its day laying claims to South Korea's islets and to stop holding such events.
> 
> In a letter delivered to the Japanese embassy, the group said they have been trying "to regard Japan as a neighbor and to share their sorrow inflicted by the earthquake and tsunami," and asked Japan to be "a true neighbor instead of seeking an aggressive attitude."
> 
> During the press conference, a 58-year-old local taxi driver tried to slash himself with a knife in protest against the Japanese event, but he only received minor injuries before police convinced him to stop.
> 
> Seo Kyoung-duk, a professor at Sungshin Women's University and an activist promoting Seoul's territorial rights, said he sent packages of data, including leaflets and relevant documents, verifying Seoul's ownership of Dokdo to about 120 Japanese newspapers and broadcasting firms last week.
> 
> Popular South Korean singer Kim Jang-hoon, also well known for his activities supporting South Korea's ownership of Dokdo, unveiled his plan to launch an online campaign to encourage local social network service users to spread photos of the islets.



news like this would scare off vietnamese guys here. their master, japanese, doesnt not like this, so they dont


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## grandmaster

Soryu said:


> Insult words not help anything but show your personal like a idiot.
> Argument without proof is nothing but theory, and not help for real
> And you very funny like a clown! What did they used to point their gun and missile on others naval ship if it's not radar (sensor)!?




there is no insulting word at all. but there is precise word to describe the nature of something! no better word suits them, you know


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## Rechoice

grandmaster said:


> news like this would scare off vietnamese guys here. their master, japanese, doesnt not like this, so they dont



What do you mean ?


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## Viet

@terranMarine and other Chinese members here:

I am aware this thread is for sure about Sino-JP dispute. One on side we see a huge number of Chinese members, but in contrast unfortunately there is no JP member. If you insist that VN and PN posters stay outside, who would contribute and defend JP?

So pls stop posting insulting comments, you just provoke another row of a war of words.


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## Viet

Hu Songshan said:


> Hi *Threads are open to everyone *just keep it civil and stick to the topic.


Thanks for clarification!


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## Soryu

grandmaster said:


> there is no insulting word at all. but there is precise word to describe the nature of something! no better word suits them, you know


Oh, I know that from very long, you show your personal with your words. 


Rechoice said:


> What do you mean ?


He just said about slave and master, so I guess may be he want become slave clown of someone... well, don't care about that!


Viet said:


> @terranMarine and other Chinese members here:
> 
> I am aware this thread is for sure about Sino-JP dispute. One on side we see a huge number of Chinese members, but in contrast unfortunately there is no JP member. If you insist that VN and PN posters stay outside, who would contribute and defend JP?
> 
> So pls stop posting insulting comments, you just provoke another row of a war of words.


I don't know who was defend for Japan, but with me, I just comment about arguments post here!
May be Japanese did not waste their time for this place where gather so many troll from Chinese


Hu Songshan said:


> Hi @Soryu, I want to keep this thread on the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands thread not the SCS issue hence I have deleted most of the comments that were flame/fighting, there is plenty of off topic material that contributes to fighting, your post happened to be apart of it and it would only contribute more negative comments. As for the post you showed on with the insult unfortunately it did not delete while I was removing most of them thank you for bringing it to my attention . Now if someone makes a offense post or troll post do not reply to it otherwise you are simply feeding them let me handle it. Threads are open to everyone just keep it civil and stick to the topic.


It's good for confirm that! Thank!

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## grandmaster

Soryu said:


> Oh, I know that from very long, you show your personal with your words.
> 
> He just said about slave and master, so I guess may be he want become slave clown of someone... well, don't care about that!
> 
> I don't know who was defend for Japan, but with me, I just comment about arguments post here!
> May be Japanese did not waste their time for this place where gather so many troll from Chinese
> 
> It's good for confirm that! Thank!



you guess whatever you want. some vietnamse guys are defending for japan as if he or she was japanese and Diaoyu island was their territory, obviously they are slaves. you dont have to guess on soneone else


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## Viet

grandmaster said:


> you guess whatever you want. some *vietnamse *guys are defending for japan as if he or she was japanese and Diaoyu island was their territory, obviously they are slaves. why you need to guess?
> [/IMG]


Why do you repeat posting ugly image again and again? You should know Koreans dislike Chinese and Japanese. So same question goes to you: why do you defend China, are you a slave to the Chinese? You idiot.
Basically I defend the justice, be Japan or Philippines or in some cases I defend China against injustice. Read my posts!


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## Viet

grandmaster said:


> no one accredits you as justice. you'd better admit you are clown of japan. regarding the image, korean protest against japanese, your owner.


post reported, you clown

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Why do you repeat posting ugly image again and again? You should know Koreans dislike Chinese and Japanese. So same question goes to you: why do you defend China, are you a slave to the Chinese? You idiot.
> Basically I defend the justice, be Japan or Philippines or in some cases I defend China against injustice. Read my posts!


If he want become that, so let him act for that.
I read news that said Chinese ship "hunt" Japanese fishing ship near Senkaku Is., let wait some more news....


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## shuttler

Viet said:


> *Abe: China stirs up rows to build support at home*
> The Washington Post
> Feb 21, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gear up: Prime Minister Shinzo Abe waves at Tokyo's Haneda airport Thursday as he departs for Washington. | AP
> 
> 
> *China has a &#8220;deeply ingrained&#8221; need to spar with Japan and other Asian neighbors over territory, because the ruling Communist Party uses the disputes to maintain strong domestic support*, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said in an interview.
> 
> Clashes with neighbors, notably Japan, play to popular opinion, Abe said, given a* Chinese education system that emphasizes patriotism and &#8220;anti-Japanese sentiment.&#8221;*
> 
> Abe&#8217;s theory on the entrenched motivation behind China&#8217;s recent naval aggression helps explain why he has spent more effort trying to counter the Chinese than make peace with them: He thinks the fierce dispute with China over the Japan-held Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea isn&#8217;t going away anytime soon.
> 
> Abe spoke about China in what aides described as unusually detailed terms, laying out challenges that Chinese leaders might face if other parts of Asia, unnerved by Beijing&#8217;s maritime expansionism, decide to reduce trade and other economic ties. *China&#8217;s government would be hurt by such moves, Abe said, because without economic growth, it &#8220;will not be able to control the 1.3 billion people . . . under the one-party rule.&#8221;*
> 
> *Abe also laid out his plans for deterrence*, which include boosting military spending and strengthening ties with *Thailand*, *Vietnam*, *Indonesia *and other nations that share concerns about Beijing. Abe, who is to meet Friday with *President Barack Obama* in Washington, said the U.S. presence in Asia is &#8220;critical&#8221; to deter China from taking territory controlled by other countries.
> 
> His comments came in an interview Saturday with The Washington Post, which The Post was granted on condition that the article not be published until Abe was departing for Washington.
> 
> In recent years, China has played an increasingly boisterous role in the South China Sea, claiming a massive sphere of territory that includes some of the world&#8217;s most trafficked shipping lanes and overlaps with claims of a half-dozen other countries. For Japan, the dispute with China focuses on the remote Senkakus in the East China Sea, islets China calls the Diaoyu. Tensions heated up in September after the central government purchased three of the islets after previously renting them, thereby nationalizing the whole chain.
> 
> *&#8220;What is important first and foremost,&#8221; Abe said, &#8220;is to make (China) realize that they would not be able to change the rules or take away somebody&#8217;s territorial water or territory by coercion or intimidation.&#8221;
> *
> Abe&#8217;s assessment of China sounds like a version of the one that experts in Beijing give of Japan, which they say has shifted to the right on foreign policy and security issues in a bid to recover clout and pride lost during two decades of economic stagnation. Abe&#8217;s criticism of Chinese education is also notable because, during his first stint as prime minister six years ago, he revised a law to encourage a more patriotic curriculum in Japan&#8217;s classrooms.
> 
> Abe became prime minister for a second time in December, after making a string of far-right campaign pledges to revise the pacifist Constitution and loosen certain restrictions on the armed forces. He also promised to be tougher on China than the previous government of the moderate Democratic Party of Japan.
> 
> But two months into his term, Abe looks more like a pragmatist than a strident nationalist, focusing mainly on a new, and so far successful, economic policy to weaken the yen and spur inflation.* His latest popularity rating is 71 percent*, according to the Yomiuri newspaper, a stunning mark in a nation that has cycled through six consecutive one-year leaders.
> 
> &#8220;I have succeeded already in changing the general mood and atmosphere that was prevalent in Japan,&#8221; Abe said.
> 
> The question is whether Abe will change course and begin pushing for his controversial rightwing hobbyhorses after the July Upper House election, which could help his Liberal Democratic Party build an overwhelming majority and leave Abe emboldened.
> 
> One concern is that Abe may try to water down earlier government apologies for atrocities committed by Japan during the war. Abe, in the interview, said he would someday like to make a &#8220;future-oriented&#8221; statement aimed at Japan&#8217;s neighbors, but he did not elaborate on what its message would be.
> 
> *Beijing *has responded to Japan&#8217;s nationalization of the Senkakus by sending surveillance ships and aircraft into Japanese territory, drawing Japan into a risky showdown in which the neighbors chase each other around the waters and airspace around the uninhabited rocky outcroppings. Any armed conflict could draw in the U.S., which is treaty-bound to protect Japan.
> 
> While historical animosities are at the root of Japan&#8217;s territorial dispute with China, the maritime conflict is relatively new. During the interview, Abe portrayed China&#8217;s actions as part of a 35-year shift that began when the Communist Party opened its once-controlled economy. China&#8217;s government has since had to abandon the hope of nationwide economic equality &#8212; &#8220;one of its pillars of legitimacy,&#8221; Abe said &#8212; forcing it to create &#8220;some different pillars,&#8221; including rapid economic growth and patriotism.
> 
> *&#8220;What is unfortunate, however,&#8221; Abe added, &#8220;is that in the case of China, teaching patriotism (is equivalent to) teaching anti-Japanese sentiment. In other words, their education policy of teaching patriotism has become even more pronounced as they started the reform and opening policy.&#8221;*
> 
> Abe said China&#8217;s tactics at sea are yielding &#8220;strong support&#8221; domestically. Those tactics, some analysts say, also could prove financially lucrative if China gains control of shipping lanes and access to rich fishing territory, and extracts hydrocarbon reserves.
> 
> *But Abe warned China&#8217;s sparring with its neighbors could backfire, potentially undermining trade partnerships and causing skittishness among foreign investors.
> *
> &#8220;Such behavior is going to have an effect on their economic activity at the end of the day,&#8221; he said, &#8220;because it will lead to losing the confidence of the international community, which will result in less investments in China. I believe it is fully possible to have China (change its) policy once they gain that recognition.&#8221;




*THESE ARE ALL DIPLOMATIC EMBARRASSMENTS FOR THE JAPANESE:
*

*AFTER THE ABOVE PICTURED FOOLISH COMMENTS REPORTED ON WASHINGTON POST UPON ABE'S ARRIVAL IN USA, THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT WAS SCRAMBLING TO WIPE ABE'S ARSE BY SCAPE-GOATING ABE'S GAFFE TO THE US MEDIA:
*
*Japan says US media misquoted Abe's words*

2013-02-22 14:58

TOKYO - Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga clarified Friday that a US newspaper misquoted Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's China-related remarks in an interview and led to misunderstanding.

Responding to Xinhua inquiry at a press conference, Suga said the Japanese government had clarified to China that the Washington Post incorrectly quoted Abe's words and led to misunderstanding.

Abe has repeatedly emphasized that Japan-China relationship remains one of the most important bilateral relationship for Japan and Japan will push forward the bilateral strategic and mutually beneficial relations through an overall perspective, Suga said.

The Washington Post published an interview with Abe on Thursday, quoting Abe as saying that "China has a 'deeply ingrained' need to spar with Japan and other Asian neighbors over territory."

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said Thursday that "the Chinese side was astonished at the report," adding it is rare for a country's leader to brazenly assault its neighbor and instigate antagonism.

Hong also said that such behavior goes against the will of international community

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*AND THEN THIS IS HOW THE WASHINGTON POST REACTS TO THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT'S SCAPE-GOATING:*

*Washington Post denies misquoting Abe*

The Washington Post has denied that it misquoted Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in an interview that included criticism of the Chinese government.

The Hong Kong-based TV station Phoenix says a Washington Post editor replied via email to a Phoenix reporter, saying that the newspaper has accurately quoted Abe's words. The interview was posted on its website. 

On Friday, Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said the Abe's statements about the Chinese government had been misquoted. Suga said Abe spoke about China in detailed terms, laying out challenges that Chinese leaders might face. The prime minister said the territorial dispute with China isn&#8217;t going away anytime soon.


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> @terranMarine and other Chinese members here:
> 
> I am aware this thread is for sure about Sino-JP dispute. One on side we see a huge number of Chinese members, but in contrast unfortunately there is no JP member. If you insist that VN and PN posters stay outside, who would contribute and defend JP?
> 
> So pls stop posting insulting comments, you just provoke another row of a war of words.



This is just a stupid excuse coming from you. No Japanese asked you guys to defend them on this forum, even the Japanese government told the world not to meddle with it not so long ago. The Japanese won't give an inch to Vietnam even if you spend your time talking crap about defending Japan from Chinese injustice. Since Russia is a buddy of Vietnam you wouldn't defend Japan against Russians patrolling the Kurils. Don't act as if you are no hypocrite. You wouldn't dare criticizing either Japan nor Russia nor Korea when it comes to the other disputes but jumping out like a slave because China is involved in Diaoyu.

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## grandmaster

Abe says Japan won



> &#8220;We simply cannot tolerate any challenge now and in the future. No nation should make any miscalculation or underestimate the firmness of our resolve,&#8221; Abe said, in reference to recent tensions over the Diaoyu Islands



Abe did not mention that japanese facist had killed millions of people in china. He should tell chinese people not to tolorate japanese genocide crimes too!

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## Soryu

Huh, Washington Post denies misquoting Abe though China media, well, no strange at here...

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## cirr

Diaoyu Islands are China's, so our African brothers say:

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## Globenim

shuttler said:


> *THESE ARE ALL DIPLOMATIC EMBARRASSMENTS FOR THE JAPANESE:
> *
> 
> *AFTER THE ABOVE PICTURED FOOLISH COMMENTS REPORTED ON WASHINGTON POST UPON ABE'S ARRIVAL IN USA, THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT WAS SCRAMBLING TO WIPE ABE'S ARSE BY SCAPE-GOATING ABE'S GAFFE TO THE US MEDIA:
> *
> *Japan says US media misquoted Abe's words*
> snip
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *AND THEN THIS IS HOW THE WASHINGTON POST REACTS TO THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT'S SCAPE-GOATING:*
> 
> *Washington Post denies misquoting Abe*
> 
> snip



Looks to me like Japan is it self is just abused by the warmongering U.S. regime in order to stir up conflicts with China and grow anti-Chinese sentiment.

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## Soryu

cirr said:


> Diaoyu Islands are China's, so our African brothers say:


So these African know what is Diaoyu Isl!???


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## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Diaoyu Islands are China's, so our African brothers say:



very cheap chinese type propaganda, but Xin Hua reporter should paid so much for this hilarious photo.

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> This is just a stupid excuse coming from you. *No Japanese asked you guys to defend them *on this forum, even the Japanese government told the world not to meddle with it not so long ago. The Japanese won't give an inch to Vietnam even if you spend your time talking crap about defending Japan from Chinese injustice. .


How did you come to this shitty conclusion? because you say so?

Abe selected VN for his first foreign trip, because he sees us as the most important partner in Asia. JP needs our support. Moreover, JP needs international support in the dispute, thats the reason why their diplomats are busy visiting countries.


terranMarine said:


> Since *Russia *is a buddy of Vietnam you wouldn't defend Japan against Russians patrolling the Kurils. Don't act as if you are no hypocrite. You wouldn't dare criticizing either Japan nor Russia nor Korea when it comes to the other disputes but jumping out like a slave because China is involved in Diaoyu.


I suggested JP should "buy" back the Kuril islands from Russia. That´s more or less what Abe wanted as he said he will make a proposal to Russia.

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## grandmaster

Viet said:


> How did you come to this shitty conclusion? because you say so?
> 
> Abe selected VN for his first foreign trip, because he sees us as the most important partner in Asia. JP needs our support. Moreover, JP needs international support in the dispute, thats the reason why their diplomats are busy visiting countries.
> 
> I suggested JP should "buy" back the Kuril islands from Russia. That´s more or less what Abe wanted as he said he will make a proposal to Russia.




come on! dont need to pretend to bee nice like that. we all know you are hypocrite. we all know vietnam wants to form an axis with japan to constrain china. first because of south china sea dispute, second the jealousy! lets wait and see how vietnam and japan work together in this case! 
if you want to suggest japan "invade" russian islands or even ally with korea, you should recommend japan not to be aggressive like that!


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## Soryu

Who are "we all"!?


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## grandmaster

Soryu said:


> Who are "we all"!?



we all are people unveiling plots of vietnam.


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## EastSea

grandmaster said:


> we all are people unveiling plots of vietnam.



Why don't you show your true face ? It's shameful when you are chinese ?

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## Viet

*Japan planning to include Senkakus in UNESCO Heritage List*


By Cherrie Lou Billones / February 20, 2013 / 114 Comments
The Japan Daily Press





The Senkaku islands, known as Diaoyu in China. Photograph: AP


The Japanese government is thinking of including the Senkaku Islands in* UNESCO&#8217;s list of World Natural Heritage sites*. 

According to local media, Japan was initially preparing to put Amami and Ryukyu Islands on this list. But then, *the city of Ishigaki* also thought of including the Senkaku Islands as part of the application this month. The Ishigaki government already prepared a draft plan and proposed to have investigation teams sent to the Senkakus to gather enough data for the Japanese authorities and the UNESCO.

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## TakeNoBS

Instead of the fighting between China and Japan, why not give the island to Taiwan as the islands are closest to Taiwan any way. Furthermore, Japan occupied the islands when they invaded Taiwan in 1895. Prior to that, the islands were recognized as Taiwanese islands.

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## Soryu

TakeNoBS said:


> Instead of the fighting between China and Japan, why not give the island to Taiwan as the islands are closest to Taiwan any way. Furthermore, Japan occupied the islands when they invaded Taiwan in 1895. Prior to that, the islands were recognized as Taiwanese islands.


It's useless argument! Some guys just want think on that way.
Taiwanese recognized it, but not mean that became Taiwan's territory. If Japan occupied the islands when nobody own it, so Islands become Japan's territory.

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## grandmaster

EastSea said:


> Why don't you show your true face ? It's shameful when you are chinese ?



your face is very thick, so i like to show your true face

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## TakeNoBS

TakeNoBS said:


> Instead of the fighting between China and Japan, why not give the island to Taiwan as the islands are closest to Taiwan any way. Furthermore, Japan occupied the islands when they invaded Taiwan in 1895. Prior to that, the islands were recognized as Taiwanese islands.



Would Japan take over that island if its not for its invasion of Taiwan? No, no, no. They won't need to take control of this island unless its for invasion of Taiwan. Also, these islands were claimed as part of Taiwan long before Japanese invasion. Japan just didn't return all the islands it occupied in its 1895 invasion of Taiwan.


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## grandmaster

TakeNoBS said:


> Would Japan take over that island if its not for its invasion of Taiwan? No, no, no. They won't need to take control of this island unless its for invasion of Taiwan. Also, these islands were claimed as part of Taiwan long before Japanese invasion. Japan just didn't return all the islands it occupied in its 1895 invasion of Taiwan.



they are not japanese. dont need to talk to them on Diaoyu issue. the best way to talk to them is to send more navy to south china sea!


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## shuttler

Soryu said:


> So these African know what is Diaoyu Isl!???



aint matter as long as they are friends of China!


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## Soryu

TakeNoBS said:


> Would Japan take over that island if its not for its invasion of Taiwan? No, no, no. They won't need to take control of this island unless its for invasion of Taiwan. Also, these islands were claimed as part of Taiwan long before Japanese invasion. Japan just didn't return all the islands it occupied in its 1895 invasion of Taiwan.


That's just your argument, while the fact of disputed depend on many other things. Of course if Taiwan could proven Islands belong to them at before Japan occupied in 1895, that'will maybe a point for them defend their claim.


shuttler said:


> aint matter as long as they are friends of China!


well, so you slapped on face of false flag grandmaster....

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## shuttler

Soryu said:


> well, so you slapped on face of false flag grandmaster....



I padded on the backs of our African and Pakistani friends! Does your face look like the backs of Pakistanis?

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## EastSea

grandmaster said:


> your face is very thick, so i like to show your true face



You can show your china's flag on your ID, don't hide your face with Pakistan flag.


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## Soryu

shuttler said:


> I padded on the backs of our African and Pakistani friends! Does your face look like the backs of Pakistanis?


You take it wrong, kid! 
grandmaster and some guys insult other like Vietnamese and Filippinos when we spoke at here whom he consider not involve disputed between China and Japan.
Now you padded your claim on others back, so your voice not strong enough that you must brought it to others spoke for you!?

From that point, you just slapped on each in everyone of you.

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## longyi

*China carrier's permanent base in Qingdao: reports*


BEIJING -- China's first aircraft carrier has docked at its new permanent base in the northern port of Qingdao, where it will be responsible for operations in waters surrounding Japan and the Korean Peninsula, media reports said Wednesday.

Speculation has swirled over where the ship, christened the Liaoning, would call home. It officially entered service on Sept. 25 amid a series of maritime disputes between China and its neighbors, particularly Japan, with which it is engaged in a tense standoff over disputed islands in the East China Sea.

Qingdao is home to China's Northern Fleet, which is responsible for operations in the Yellow Sea, the Sea of Japan, parts of the East China Sea and the Bohai Gulf, about 150 kilometers (93 miles) from Beijing. Qingdao offers the country's longest breakwater to guard against catastrophic storms, and remains ice-free year-round.

The official Xinhua News Agency and Global Times newspaper reported that the carrier left its temporary base in the northeastern port of Dalian on Tuesday for the first sea trials of the year following a three-month refitting. Xinhua said weapons systems were tested during the voyage to Qingdao, but gave no details.

The Liaoning is a refurbished Soviet-era carrier purchased from Ukraine that China has described as an experimental model. China is believed to have plans to use its experience with the Liaoning to build four or more carriers of its own, one or more of which will be based at the southern island province of Sanya, which faces the South China Sea. China's claim to ownership of the entire South China Sea and its island groups is contested by Vietnam, the Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia. 

While the Liaoning doesn't yet have an aircraft complement or battle group, the carrier program has been the most eye-catching element of China's comprehensive naval buildup, which also includes ballistic missile submarines, modern destroyers and a new generation of stealth missile frigates, the first of which was launched Monday at Shanghai's naval shipyard.

The navy conducted landings on the Liaoning in November using J-15 carrier fighters based on Russia's Su-33. 

China carrier's permanent base in Qingdao: reports - The China Post


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## Viet

Hoàn C


According to a report on Sankei newspaper (Japan), Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has instructed the Japanese Navy to keep a minimum distance of 3km to Chinese warships in the East China Sea.


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## fuxing

In my opinion, the Japanese snatch the Diaoyu Islands, and is near to death.The Chinese people and the Chinese army, we will let the Japanese regret.Still hope that the Japanese honest


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## Fsjal

fuxing said:


> In my opinion, the Japanese snatch the Diaoyu Islands, and is near to death.The Chinese people and the Chinese army, we will let the Japanese regret.Still hope that the Japanese honest



I personally don't blame Japan. I heard that a Japanese man owned the land and sold to Japanese government. I think China will regret, since Japan has America. A war with Japan is not even worth it. Cooperation is.


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## Soryu

It's surprise to me when I see you said like that, Fsjal.


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## fuxing

Fsjal said:


> I personally don't blame Japan. I heard that a Japanese man owned the land and sold to Japanese government. I think China will regret, since Japan has America. A war with Japan is not even worth it. Cooperation is.



No no no! My friend,you must know if the USA had entered the war, will cause a third world war. The USA has continued to provoke other countries. If USA help Japan,world order must be changed. World is no longer peace


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## anon45

fuxing said:


> No no no! My friend,you must know if the USA had entered the war, will cause a third world war. The USA has continued to provoke other countries. If USA help Japan,world order must be changed. World is no longer peace



Fuxing, by definition if China and Japan go to war, the world is no longer at peace, so what you say has no merit. China has already in that scenario brought about a third world war through its belligerence, and is without a doubt the main antagonist.

To demand the US not help Japan in that case is to demand we destroy the current world order ourselves, as it is based in large part on our alliances and their perceived reliability.

You in effect argue that either the US should destroy the current world order, or China will try.

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## zxmint

Korean said:


> This wasn't the case of a brave pilot, but a poorly trained pilot who couldn't fly straight.
> 
> That pilot, or Chinese fighter pilots in general, are so poorly trained that they can't even fly straight, and that fighter jet collided with the US spyplane while flying along as per the normal interception protocall. It's not just the Americans who complain about the poor quality of Chinese pilots, but the Japanese ASDF pilots who routinely intercept Chinese planes complaining about the same thing; the Chinese pilots can't fly straight!
> 
> Pakistan could repay some of its debt to China by offering to train Chinese combat pilots.


I find that I can even simply judge one's level through the flags under their images. Just compare the normal speed of JH-7 and Ep-3 and you'll find a task like this is dangerous at the beginning. BTW, SK's pilots got only about 140 hours training time while China's record is 200 hours. Which one is lacking of training?


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## zxmint

anon45 said:


> Fuxing, by definition if China and Japan go to war, the world is no longer at peace, so what you say has no merit. China has already in that scenario brought about a third world war through its belligerence, and is without a doubt the main antagonist.
> 
> To demand the US not help Japan in that case is to demand we destroy the current world order ourselves, as it is based in large part on our alliances and their perceived reliability.
> 
> You in effect argue that either the US should destroy the current world order, or China will try.


I am afraid what you said is correct. A rising China will inevitably challenge US ruled World order, no matter whether it is willing to do that you know. Therefore there must be mutual compromises between US and China to guarantee the world peace. And without US support, Japan is incapable to fight alone against China. So it will have no choice but quit Diaoyu Island and there will be no wars.


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## longyi

*Ma christens two ships to patrol Diaoyutai Islands*


TAIPEI, Taiwan -- President Ma Ying-jeou yesterday christened two Coast Guard cutters that will patrol the waters over the disputed Diaoyutai Islands.Hsin Bei (&#26032;&#21271;&#33382 and Hsun Hu No. 8 (&#24033;&#35703;8&#34399 will be based in Keelung Harbor (&#22522;&#38534;&#28207 and deployed to waters peripheral to the Diaoyutais, an island chain at the center of a regional territorial dispute.

The Coast Guard Administration (&#28023;&#23736;&#24033;&#38450;&#32626 chose Cijin District (&#26071;&#27941 of Southern Taiwan for the ship's christening ceremony, in the interest of minimizing friction with Japan, Taiwan's neighbor to the northeast, according to military authorities.

Onboard the Hsin Bei, Ma reiterated the government's determination to enforce Taiwan's claim over the Diaoyutai Islands.

&#8220;We will not concede one step,&#8221; said Ma during opening remarks at the launch ceremony.

But Ma renewed his call for the Coast Guard to refrain from aggression in accordance with his East China Sea Peace Initiative.

Taiwan &#8220;won't evade, provoke or concede&#8221; to other claimants in the defense of Diaoyutais sovereignty and protection of fishing rights, Ma told the crew.

The ship launch comes at a time of continued maritime conflict over the Diaoyutais, an island chain controlled by Japan but claimed also by Taiwan and mainland China.

Ma has adopted a relatively low-key approach to defense, but has also stepped up the visibility of Coast Guard patrols in the surrounding waters. Last September, Taiwan and Japanese clippers exchanged water cannon fire near the disputed waters.

The new patrol ships, Hsin Bei and Hsun Hu No. 8, are part of a NT$24 billion project to add 37 vessels to the Coast Guard by 2018.

The 2,000-ton Hsin Bei is the Coast Guard Administration's first clipper fitted with 40-mm cannons and machine guns. It will join a fleet of smaller ships to patrol Taiwan's side of the temporary law enforcement line and defend the operations of Taiwanese fishermen.

After the commissioning ceremony, Ma inspected a Coast Guard fleet drill that featured the ships on their maiden run.

Earlier this month local media reported that the Coast Guard also invited Premier Jiang Yi-huah (&#27743;&#23452;&#27194 and New Taipei City Mayor Eric Chu (&#26417;&#31435;&#20523, but Ma presided at the ceremony without either. 

Ma christens two ships to patrol Diaoyutai Islands - The China Post


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## Ajaxpaul

BEIJING: Japan has inked an agreement with Taiwan to allow Taiwanese vessels to fish within 12 miles from the disputed Diaoyu Islands in a surprise deal that has shaken China. 

The deal threatens Beijing's campaign to reclaim the disputed area in East China Sea from the Japanese control with Taiwan's help. China had received encouraging signals from Taiwan after a group of Taiwanese activists visited Diaoyu to protest Japan's occupation in January. 

*Observers believe the US, close to both Taipei and Tokyo, may have brokered the deal, which has angered China particularly due to its territorial claims over Taiwan. *

"China's position on Taiwan's foreign exchanges is clear and consistent. We are extremely concerned about Japan and Taiwan discussing and signing a fishing agreement," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei said. 

The deal comes after 17 years of negotiations and strengthens Japan's claim over Diaoyu. 

Japan's chief cabinet secretary Yoshihide said the deal was about the protection of maritime resources in the East China Sea, while maintaining that Diaoyu Islands "are inherently our national territory" and "therefore no issues are being shelved here''.

Japan lets Taiwan boats fish near disputed islands - The Times of India

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## JohnSeb

*Japan and Taiwan have signed a deal allowing Taiwan to fish near a group of disputed islands, prompting China to express "extreme concerns".*

The agreement allows Taiwan to fish within 19km (12 miles) of the islands, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.

China and Taiwan both claim the island chain, which is controlled by Japan.

China claims sovereignty over Taiwan, which does not have official diplomatic relations with Japan.

The deal comes after 17 years of negotiations between Japan and Taiwan, local media has reported.

The islands offer rich fishing grounds and are thought to contain oil deposits.

They have been at the heart of considerable diplomatic tension between China and Japan, most recently in January when Japan said a Chinese frigate put a radar lock on a Japanese navy ship near the islands - something China disputes.

In January, a boat of Taiwanese activists also tried to reach the islands, but were forced back by the Japanese coastguard.
'Special partnerships'

"These negotiations are about the protection of maritime resources in the East China Sea," Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said on Wednesday.

He added that the deal had no relation to the territorial dispute. "The Senkaku islands are inherently our national territory. Therefore there are no issues being shelved here."

Liao Liou-yi, Chairman of Taiwan's Association of East Asia Relations, said that relations on both sides were at the "highest positive level" and that Taiwan and Japan had "special partnerships".

Many analysts believe that Japan agreed to the deal to prevent China and Taiwan from presenting a united front against it over any territorial dispute.

China has expressed opposition to the agreement. It claims sovereignty over Taiwan, and insists that nations cannot have official relations with both China and Taiwan.

"China's position on Taiwan's foreign exchanges is clear and consistent," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said on Wednesday.

"We are extremely concerned about Japan and Taiwan discussing and signing a fishing agreement."

BBC News - China anger at Japan-Taiwan disputed island fishing deal

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## jhungary

This is like one giant middle Taiwanese finger to the Chinese........

I wonder what the Chinese will do now.

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## ViXuyen

jhungary said:


> This is like one giant middle Taiwanese finger to the Chinese........
> 
> I wonder what the Chinese will do now.


Taiwanese, despite being Chinese themselves, really love Japan. I'm not surprised if Taiwan sell their country to Japan either. I remember seeing the photos of Taiwanese President dressing in Japanese outfit (kimono ?) and wielding the katana; it's utter epic Throughout history, the Chinese have produced many who are willing to sell out their country if the price is right. The behavior of the Taiwanese does not surprise me at all; Chinese self respect does not exist if they feel like they are inferior to someone.

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## ChineseTiger1986

5Star said:


> Taiwanese, despite being Chinese themselves, really love Japan. I'm not surprised if Taiwan sell their country to Japan either. I remember seeing the photos of Taiwanese President dressing in Japanese outfit (kimono ?) and wielding the katana; it's utter epic Throughout history, the Chinese have produced many who are willing to sell out their country if the price is right. The behavior of the Taiwanese does not surprise me at all; Chinese self respect does not exist if they feel like they are inferior to someone.



When Taiwan became one of the little four dragons in Asia, they were NOT Chinese, because Mainland Chinese are backward commies, while Taiwanese follow the advanced democratic system.

Now Taiwanese are cowards, so they suddenly become Chinese?

Anything good is not Chinese, while anything bad must be Chinese, do i smell the double standard here?

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## 帅的一匹

Ma Ying Jiu is a *****, period. He sell ancestral land for some damn fish.

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## cnleio

History repeated, KMT sold China lands again(also main reasons kicked from mainland to TaiWan by Chinese ppl). Congrats to TaiWan and KMT party ! What a good fish-deal, but still Japan forbid TaiWan fishmen working within 12 nautical miles of the island coz Mr Ma/KMT/TaiWan admit DiaoYu islands(Senkaku islands) to Japan's.



> Jpanese officer praised TaiWan: "The Senkaku islands are inherently our national territory. Therefore there are no issues being shelved here."


A joke played between Japan and TaiWan. A non-state orgination and region sell a country's lands, a illeagle deal. But a good DOG for the foreigner, Japan also didn't recognize TaiWan as a formal nation,a part of P.R.C. 

What a fool action Japanese did, except angrys from mainland China and government of P.R.C, the sea conflict will contine and no room for negotiation.


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## Raphael

If Japan brings their radioactive boats and poisons the local environment, there'll be no fish for anyone.


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## cnleio

BTW still Congrats to TaiWanese  
Ur ruler(KMT party) abandon the territory of whole DiaoYu islands (Senkaku islands), only exchange the fish area 12~24 nautical miles far away from islands, or Japanese still arrest TaiWan fishmen coz ur boats have been into Japan's territorial waters. 








What a wonderful fish deal, lose the territory of islands to exchange "PEACE"! TaiWan ppl and fishmen will enjoy the "PEACE" coz right now ur boarts will formally start to fish work in Japan's territorial waters not original Urs, now Japanese just borrow the fishing right to TaiWanese near the islands but Japan government has the rights to change it any time.

Enjoy it when foolish KMT signed the fish deal with Japanese and admit islands to Japan, next time i would like to see how the Japanese s@ck poor TaiWan fishmen by watching TV in mainland China !!!


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## shuttler

5Star said:


> B] I remember seeing the photos of Taiwanese President dressing in Japanese outfit (kimono ?) and wielding the katana; it's utter epic [/B] .



that "president" only has his appeal to a certain segment of the Taiwanese society. Vast majority of Chinese dont like him at all.

It is shameful for the Taiwanese to sign any thing like that offered by the japanese without knowing their own rights.

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## Fsjal

Taiwan are traitors. Signing an accord with their historical enemy.

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## OrionHunter

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Now Taiwanese are cowards, so they suddenly become Chinese?


So you're admitting the Chinese are cowards?  Sheeesh! No wonder all they've done is to express "extreme concerns" at this incident!  Whatever happened to the legendary Chinese bombast that the entire South China Sea is Chinese territory?

Now people just walk in and walk out of the area and all China is capable of doing is spew hot air into the atmosphere aiding global warming!

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## shuttler

OrionHunter said:


> So *you're admitting the Chinese are cowards*?  Sheeesh! No wonder all they've done is to express "extreme concerns" at this incident!  Whatever happened to the legendary Chinese bombast that the entire South China Sea is Chinese territory?



Tiger is not saying anything like *that*. It is on the contrary

SCS still remains a Chinese territory regardless of the farcial signing above

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## ChineseTiger1986

OrionHunter said:


> So you're admitting the Chinese are cowards?  Sheeesh! No wonder all they've done is to express "extreme concerns" at this incident!  Whatever happened to the legendary Chinese bombast that the entire South China Sea is Chinese territory?



Yep, the same cowards that gave your supah powah army a run for their money. 

Taiwanese are cowards, but do these idiots represent all Chinese?

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## OrionHunter

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, the same cowards that gave your supah powah army a run for their money.


Like the whacking your 'invincible' robot army received at the hands of the Indian Army in 1967 at Nathula?


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## ChineseTiger1986

shuttler said:


> Tiger is not saying anything like *that*. It is on the contrary
> 
> SCS still remains a Chinese territory regardless of the farcial signing above



Thanks for the goodness we have CPC and those KMT traitors just unveiled their true color to the Mainlanders.

You know in the past few years, KMT has suddenly became popular among the young people, they admired the KMT and bashed the CPC, and i was really nervous.

But now KMT just digs a grave for themselves, most of the Mainlanders will keep pissing on these KMT dogs just like in the era of Chairman Mao.

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## Roybot

Whatever happened to the new Taiwanese government being pro China


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## shuttler

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Thanks for the goodness we have CPC and those KMT traitors just unveiled their true color to the Mainlanders.
> 
> You know in the past few years, KMT has suddenly became popular among the young people, they admired the KMT and bash the CPC, and i was really nervous.
> 
> But now KMT just digs a grave for themselves, most of the Mainlanders will keep pissing on these KMT dogs just like in era of Chairman Mao.



No problems at all Tiger!

I hate those traitors as much as all Chinese do!

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## ChineseTiger1986

shuttler said:


> No problems at all Tiger!
> 
> I hate those traitors as much as all Chinese do!



Did you ever like them?

I never liked them, but i didn't realize that they are more traitorous than i expected.

But KMT was born to be traitor since the beginning, it is deeply marked in their gene.

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## shuttler

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Did you ever like them?
> 
> I never liked them, but i didn't realize that they are more traitorous than i expected.
> 
> But KMT was born to be traitor since the beginning, it is deeply marked in their gene.



I guess when these traitors are playing hardballs, we can cut the bilateral trades with them; as simple as that.

What they think foolishly that they gain from the japanese, they lose their opportunities that we have given them

I feel that very ridiculous for the stupid taiwanese. they recognise the japanese thieves as their benefactors

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## ChineseTiger1986

shuttler said:


> I guess when these traitors are playing hardballs, we can cut the bilateral trades with them; as simple as that.
> 
> What they think foolishly that they gain from the japanese, they lose their opportunities that we have given them



Do you believe the military unification is possible?

Since CPC already gave them a chance for the peaceful unification, they don't want it and decide to side with the enemies.

Taiwan must be unified under the governance of CPC, but a peaceful unification is impossible to achieve this.

Then what should we do?


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## shuttler

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you believe the military unification is possible?
> 
> Since CPC already gave them a chance for the peaceful unification, they don't want it and decide to side with the enemies.
> 
> Taiwan must be unified under the governance of CPC, but a peaceful unification is impossible to achieve this.
> 
> Then what should we do?



Military operation is the very last resort. Because it will gravely fall into the predicament of
"&#20146;&#32773;&#30171;&#65292;&#20167;&#32773;&#24555;"

It is still not yet imminent that military exercise is necessary at this moment


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## ChineseTiger1986

shuttler said:


> Military operation the very last resort. It is still not yet imminent that military exercise is necessary at this moment



China should destroy the remaining of ROC, Chairman Mao didn't finish the job, the current Chinese leaders should.

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## shuttler

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China should destroy the remaining of ROC, Chairman Mao didn't finish the job, the current Chinese leaders should.



Yeah this is one of the problems that we have not done a clean job:

1. KMT-Taiwan
2. Zangnan (S. Tibet) in Sino-indian war
3. Vietnam war and SCS


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## ChineseTiger1986

shuttler said:


> Yeah this is one of the problems that we have not done a clean job:
> 
> 1. KMT-Taiwan
> 2. Zangnan (S. Tibet) in Sino-indian war
> 3. Vietnam war and SCS



In fact, Chairman Mao could have taken on Taiwan in 1949, but North Korea just dragged him into another war against USA.

So this time we should never allow NK to foil our plan anymore.

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## shuttler

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> In fact, Chairman Mao could have taken on Taiwan in 1949, but North Korea just dragged him into another war against USA.
> 
> So this time we should never allow NK to foil our plan anymore.



absolutely

We are in a much better position to deal with a case like DPRK!

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## ChineseTiger1986

shuttler said:


> absolutely
> 
> We are in a much better position to deal with a case like DPRK!



DPRK wanna use China to achieve the unification of the Korean peninsula, while USA wanna use DPRK to weaken China.

They both are our roadblock, no wonder Xi Jinping has just warned them both.

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## shuttler

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> DPRK wanna use China to achieve the unification of the Korean peninsula, while USA wanna use DPRK to weaken China.
> 
> They both are our roadblock, no wonder Xi Jinping has just warned them both.



correct. these fvckers (japanese included) dont mess around in front of our doorsteps!

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## grandmaster

this is clearly a plot of Japanese. the Japanese wants to use Chinese fight against Chinese. Japanese use a strategy called "clam and crane bird fight each other, the fisherman (japan) will catch both". And also, they want to take advantage of that to create hatred between mainland and Taiwan island. To counter Japanese plot, we need to propagate Japanese plot to Taiwanese. and encourage Taiwanese fish within 12 nautical miles from the Diaoyu islands. then plots of Japanese will be backfired!

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## shuttler

grandmaster said:


> this is clearly a plot of Japanese. the Japanese wants to use Chinese fight against Chinese. Japanese use a strategy called "clam and crane bird fight each other, the fisherman (japan) will catch both". And also, they want to take advantage of that to create hatred between mainland and Taiwan island. To counter Japanese plot, we need to propagate Japanese plot to Taiwanese. and encourage Taiwanese fish within 12 nautical miles from the Diaoyu islands. then plots of Japanese will be backfired!



yeah the same old dirty trick "divide and conquer"

some shameful taiwanese have handed their arses to the japanese on a plate!


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## ChineseTiger1986

grandmaster said:


> this is clearly a plot of Japanese. the Japanese wants to use Chinese fight against Chinese. Japanese use a strategy called "clam and crane bird fight each other, the fisherman (japan) will catch both". And also, they want to take advantage of that to create hatred between mainland and Taiwan island. To counter Japanese plot, we need to propagate Japanese plot to Taiwanese. and encourage Taiwanese fish within 12 nautical miles from the Diaoyu islands. then plots of Japanese will be backfired!



But thanks to the traitorous government in Taiwan, their tactic does work.


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## HongWu

Taiwan fell right into the trap. The real target was never Diaoyu Island but rather Taiwan. It is impossible to control Diaoyu Island without Taiwan being at least neutral if not friendly. Now the target is to invade Taiwan within 3 years. All other problems will automatically be resolved after Taiwan is taken back.

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## Krueger

Congratulations.
Glad to see both US allies (Taiwan  Japan) reach an accord.


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## shuttler

Krueger said:


> Congratulations.
> Glad to see both US allies (Taiwan  Japan) reach an accord.



haha you are so elated picking up a dime&#65281;

it doesnt change the chess board

We are still gaining progress while the japanese losing!


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## NiceGuy

Chinese here when arguing with me always brag:' we dont wanna attack TW coz we're all Chinese,unlike North-South VN,we're waiting for peaceful unification blah blah'.

Ok,so no hope for a so called'peaceful unification' now,so,what can a weak and coward country like China can do ?keep masturbating with Ah Q's 'spiritual victories' huh?

Supa powar China-the third most powerful military on Earth blah blah, what an insult to that position.

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## northeast

It's not about KMT&#65292;it's about Taiwanese people&#65292;a slave race as it's always be in the whole history.

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## northeast

KMT or &#27665;&#36827;&#20826;&#65292;it doesn't matter.both of them are shameless cowards&#65292;because taiwanese are southeast asian cowards &#65292;these parties represent their mindset.


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## grandmaster

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> But thanks to the traitorous government in Taiwan, their tactic does work.



the Taiwanese gov is just like a guard dog fastened outside of japanese house (cannot go into diaoyu sialnds) and keeps house for japanese. As long as mainland china keeps sending patrol ship to Diaoyu islands and reaching into the 12 nautical miles, Japanese cannot do anything. Japanese plot is just a kind of reminder to china mainland that it needs to work harder in the diaoyu islands and must not fall into 'sleep'!

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## jhungary

There were time China can Force their hand on Taiwan, that was 1950. 

Instead, China lend his help on the ungrateful North Korea and give Chinese full of Shiite now.

I remember back in 2007 or 2008, China proposed a Joint Claim with Taiwan on Senkaku. I guess this is the very ultimate "NO" to the Chinese from the Taiwanese.

Taiwan is one of the unknown if War broke out in SCS. But with Taiwan now siding with Japan, I can see China is now alone in this position, may or may not have to more rely on North Korea to do the backing. Interesting to see how this will shift the Chinese dynamic over from Taiwan to North Korea.

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## Krueger

shuttler said:


> haha you are so elated picking up a dime&#65281;
> 
> it doesnt change the chess board
> 
> We are still gaining progress while the japanese losing!


Oh yeah in case war between China and Japan broke out China will find itself fighting all her neighbors. Militarily China is no match against Japan, US, Australia and Great Britain. All you got is the great equalizer nuclear bombs which would be your last resort. Russia will just be watching you and smiling at the situation you (China) created yourself LOL

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## grandmaster

HongWu said:


> Our first strike will be a nuke on NYC and USA will surrender before we strike LA and DC.



don't need to waste word for this guy. Definitely, it is another vietnamese!

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## shuttler

Krueger said:


> Oh yeah in case war between China and Japan broke out China will find itself fighting all her neighbors. Militarily China is no match against Japan, US, Australia and Great Britain. All you got is the great equalizer nuclear bombs which would be your last resort. Russia will just be watching you and smiling at the situation you (China) created yourself LOL



an indian troll covered in us flags wont help diminish your hullincination
japan is experiencing the third nuke in their homeland. let them worry about the clean-up first before going to a war with us
if a war breaks out between China and japan, usa's order for arms exports will increase. japan will replace your home country as the no 1 arms importer
if usa, australia join in, Russia will NOT sit on the fence. They have a territorial conflict with the japanese too. Russia will be next if we fall. It will be an all out WW3!

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## shuttler

jhungary said:


> There were time China can Force their hand on Taiwan, that was 1950.
> 
> Instead, China lend his help on the ungrateful North Korea and give Chinese full of Shiite now.
> 
> I remember back in 2007 or 2008, China proposed a Joint Claim with Taiwan on Senkaku. I guess this is the very ultimate "NO" to the Chinese from the Taiwanese.
> 
> Taiwan is one of the unknown if War broke out in SCS. But with Taiwan now siding with Japan, I can see China is now alone in this position, may or may not have to more rely on North Korea to do the backing. Interesting to see how this will shift the Chinese dynamic over from Taiwan to North Korea.



We are not taking any other country for a backup, Troll, at the very outset. We are strong enough to fight this on our own

If the taiwanese fishermen sign deals with the japanese, fine. they save their arses for not getting attack by the ruthless japanese coast guards.


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## jhungary

shuttler said:


> We are not taking any other country for a backup, Troll, at the very outset. We are strong enough to fight this on our own
> 
> If the taiwanese fishermen sign deals with the japanese, fine. they save their arses for not getting attack by the ruthless japanese coast guards.



LOL, whatever you say. China can take on the world alone if they wanted to be. 

Then again, are you going to fight or are you just gonna sit back and relax and watch the whole thing on TV??LOL

You don't need to reply me, even if you do, I will not answer you

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## Karasonmuno

I guess it's good for the Taiwanese, and it can't do much harm to mainland China...


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## jhungary

-On Topic-

Taiwan joining the Japanese Side would be a game changer in Senkaku issue, if I was China war planner. I would plan an incursion thru Taiwan as a logistic base, now, with Taiwanese signing this agreement, I very much doubt Taiwan would allow China to use its Keilung Port to do something like that. PLA Navy currently do not have underway refuelling technology for their ship, meaning they need to march thru Senkaku via North Eastern China, which add some 200 miles to their journey. By the time they reach senkaku, their station time would have been cut in half

On the other hand, Japan can refuel their own ship in Ishigaki, that seriously favour the Japanese. Not to mention now Senkaku is now a money making ground for Taiwan as well. No guarantee if China retook it, it will allow Taiwan to share the resource (I don't really think it's possible after the Taiwanese flip the Chinese the finger. It will not come as a surprise if I saw news report Taiwan and Japan form a defensive allied on Senkaku. Which make the situation harder for China.

Also, @Hu Songshan Think its time for you to clean up this thread and hand out those infraction notices, it's getting out of control here...

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## shuttler

jhungary said:


> -On Topic-
> 
> Taiwan joining the Japanese Side would be a game changer in Senkaku issue, if I was China war planner. I would plan an incursion thru Taiwan as a logistic base, now, with Taiwanese signing this agreement, I very much doubt Taiwan would allow China to use its Keilung Port to do something like that. PLA Navy currently do not have underway refuelling technology for their ship, meaning they need to march thru Senkaku via North Eastern China, which add some 200 miles to their journey. By the time they reach senkaku, their station time would have been cut in half
> 
> On the other hand, Japan can refuel their own ship in Ishigaki, that seriously favour the Japanese. Not to mention now Senkaku is now a money making ground for Taiwan as well. No guarantee if China retook it, it will allow Taiwan to share the resource (I don't really think it's possible after the Taiwanese flip the Chinese the finger. It will not come as a surprise if I saw news report Taiwan and Japan form a defensive allied on Senkaku. Which make the situation harder for China.



dont continue with your childish fantasy You only embarrass yourself furthermore

Taiwan is here for money and their short term interest will ruin their long term gain in China

China is Taiwan's no 1 trading partner. How much is the amount of annual fishing catches in Diaoyu Islands? and if you can see the stupidity of the taiwanese in signing the agreement forgoing their own rights and their long term business!

We dont need refuelling and even we have to we have our support vessels! And our nuke subs





> Also, @Hu Songshan Think its time for you to clean up this thread and hand out those infraction notices, it's getting out of control here...



Why are you flaming a member who is not participating in discussions in the last series of postings?


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## jhungary

shuttler said:


> dont continue with your childish fantasy You only embarrass yourself furthermore
> 
> Taiwan is here for money and their short term interest will ruin their long term gain in China
> 
> China is Taiwan's no 1 trading partner. How much is the amount of annual fishing catches in Diaoyu Islands? and if you can see the stupidity of the taiwanese in signing the agreement forgoing their own rights and their long term business!
> 
> We dont need refuelling and even we have to we have our support vessels! And our nuke subs



Wow....lol Chill man. Chinese Navy can do everything, Chinese navy can wipe off Taiwan + Japan or even US 7th Fleet anywhere in the world in split second. LOL

and when China get into a war in SCS, it's every country's duty to Help China out. Even US. 

You really believe that??

Seems to me, *China being Taiwan number 1 trading partner hold little regards as to Taiwan declare a joint venture with the Japanese regarding the senkaku's*. If Taiwan is what you think they are, they would not agree with Japan in such an agreement in the first place.

You cannot damage an already damaged relationship when they sign a joint venture deal with Japan.

So, seems to me, with regard, that you are wrong
.
Again, you don't have to reply to me, I had enough of low level "Just Talk" with other member who just pull "fact" under their pants.



> Why are you flaming a member who is not participating in discussions in the last series of postings?



He is the *MODERATOR*. Calling him because this threat need some clean up, a lot of off topic discussion and personal insult happening in this threat, calling on him have nothing about this discussion of this topic. 

The last 4 pages are nothing but flaming and headed word about faces. and personal attack.

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## Sasquatch

Please stick to the topic both Jhungary and Shuttler. Shuttler enough with the name calling this is your warning.


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## faithfulguy

Taiwan made a bad agreement with Japan. It should settle for no less than absolute fishing rights within 200km from the island. Including right to the islands themselves.


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## jhungary

faithfulguy said:


> Taiwan made a bad agreement with Japan. It should settle for no less than absolute fishing rights within 200km from the island. Including right to the islands themselves.



LOL, that would be the perfect case senario

Problem is, it may take ages to sort out the dispute and i don't think we are going to see any conflict regarding the islands chain anytime soon. Despite what some Chinese member here think. Even a war happen between the 2. There will not be any territories changes

It's a perfectly sane position Taiwanese took, it's sort of like the one in SCS. Where Malaysia(?) nego a fishing right with China .


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## grandmaster

faithfulguy said:


> Taiwan made a bad agreement with Japan. It should settle for no less than absolute fishing rights within 200km from the island. Including right to the islands themselves.



actually, it is not bad at all. At first glance, everyone thought Japanese was trapping Taiwan and mainland into a war game. It is not hard to realize what Japanese is playing. As long as mainland considers its enemy is still japan and patrolling around the Diaoyu islands, there will be nothing happen or change between china and Taiwan. Therefore, the loser is japan because it has to loose what it has claimed its territory to Taiwan, neither Taiwan nor mainland was trapped, mainland china is still there, what can Japanese do?


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## Bob Ong

A brilliant diplomacy by Japan. I always believe China should have done the same thing with the Philippines and Vietnam.


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## yusheng

China opposes unilateral action over Diaoyu Islands

video


China has come out strongly against Japan&#8217;s unilateral action of signing a fishing agreement with Taiwan for fishing activity around the Diaoyu Islands. Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said on Friday that Japan should avoid unilateral action on the islands as this goes against a previous agreement signed with China.

Japan and Taiwan signed a fishing rights accord for waters near the Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea on Wednesday. Under the agreement, Taiwan trawlers will be permitted to fish in waters near the Diaoyu Islands. 

Hong said, "The Diaoyu Islands and its affiliated islets are the inherent territory of China. China and Japan signed a fishing pact in 1997. We demand that the Japanese side properly handle Taiwan-related issues according to the principles and spirit set in the China-Japan Joint Statement."


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## yusheng

PLA Naval fleet patrols Diaoyu Islands waters


BEIJING, April 17 (Xinhua) -- A fleet of the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy on Wednesday morning patrolled the waters surrounding the Diaoyu Islands.

The fleet comprises ships from the Nanhai Fleet of the PLA Navy. 







_A fleet of the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy on Wednesday morning patrolled the 
waters surrounding the Diaoyu Islands._

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## Bob Ong

*Taiwan-Japan fishery pact good example of dispute resolution: expert*
2013/04/17 17:14:19






Washington, April 16 (CNA) An agreement reached recently between Taiwan and Japan on fishing rights in waters surrounding the disputed Diaoyutai Islands serves as a good example for resolving similar regional disputes, an American expert on East Asian affairs said Tuesday.

Douglas Paal, former director of the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT), said that waters surrounding the Diaoyutai are traditional fishing grounds for Taiwanese fishermen.

The area is too far away from Okinawa and is not a good location for Japanese fishermen because of wind and current directions there, Paal said during a discussion held at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Historically, Chinese fishermen did not operate there, either, he said.

By signing the agreement, Taiwan and Japan demonstrated their respect for history and recognition that the interests of the fishermen are the real underlying issues in the Diaoyutais dispute, he said.

Taipei and Japan set a good example for resolving disputes when they skillfully put aside their territorial claims in the negotiations, Paal said. 

(By Tony Liao and Y.F. Low)

Taiwan-Japan fishery pact good example of dispute resolution: expert | Politics | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

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## yusheng



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## Bob Ong




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## shuttler



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## yangzhun

&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;

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&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;

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## Soryu

Well... seem like "bla bla bla are China" ....  sorry, it's just so funny ...


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## jhungary

Bob Ong said:


> *Taiwan-Japan fishery pact good example of dispute resolution: expert*
> 2013/04/17 17:14:19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Washington, April 16 (CNA) An agreement reached recently between Taiwan and Japan on fishing rights in waters surrounding the disputed Diaoyutai Islands serves as a good example for resolving similar regional disputes, an American expert on East Asian affairs said Tuesday.
> 
> Douglas Paal, former director of the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT), said that waters surrounding the Diaoyutai are traditional fishing grounds for Taiwanese fishermen.
> 
> The area is too far away from Okinawa and is not a good location for Japanese fishermen because of wind and current directions there, Paal said during a discussion held at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
> 
> Historically, Chinese fishermen did not operate there, either, he said.
> 
> By signing the agreement, Taiwan and Japan demonstrated their respect for history and recognition that the interests of the fishermen are the real underlying issues in the Diaoyutais dispute, he said.
> 
> Taipei and Japan set a good example for resolving disputes when they skillfully put aside their territorial claims in the negotiations, Paal said.
> 
> (By Tony Liao and Y.F. Low)
> 
> Taiwan-Japan fishery pact good example of dispute resolution: expert | Politics | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS



Actually, this is not the best solution, *it is the ONLY solution to solve the conflict.* 

There are no way China can control Senkaku in any circumstance except 2

1.) Japan themselves withdraw from Senkaku and let China occupy it

2.) China took Senkaku by force.

While solution 1 is nearly impossible, Japan is not normal joker that China can run over easy. Whatever China threaten Japan, Japan can take it.

Solution 2 involve a serious damage of Chinese economy capability. War with Japan burn money. This day and age, Japan and China are actual neighbour, either one of them can deal a damaging blow to the other economy. While Japan's economy is more or less dead in the water, Chinese economy is on the rise, will China want to trade the rise of their economy for some Island?? It is the key question to answer.

Do remember, no war cost nothing, every war cost, you need to pay for it.

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## Soryu

jhungary said:


> Actually, this is not the best solution, *it is the ONLY solution to solve the conflict.*
> 
> There are no way China can control Senkaku in any circumstance except 2
> 
> 1.) Japan themselves withdraw from Senkaku and let China occupy it
> 
> 2.) China took Senkaku by force.
> 
> While solution 1 is nearly impossible, Japan is not normal joker that China can run over easy. Whatever China threaten Japan, Japan can take it.
> 
> Solution 2 involve a serious damage of Chinese economy capability. War with Japan burn money. This day and age, Japan and China are actual neighbour, either one of them can deal a damaging blow to the other economy. While Japan's economy is more or less dead in the water, Chinese economy is on the rise, will China want to trade the rise of their economy for some Island?? It is the key question to answer.
> 
> Do remember, no war cost nothing, every war cost, you need to pay for it.



Well, Many chinese believe they can take and stand with it, and Japan can't...


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## jhungary

Soryu said:


> Well, Many chinese believe they can take and stand with it, and Japan can't...



On their imaginary wealth or imaginary land I supposed??


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## yusheng

Chinese fleet monitors Japanese ships around Diaoyu Islands 


04-23-2013 11:56 BJT Special Reportiaoyu Islands: China&#8217;s Inherent Territory | 







BEIJING, April 23 (Xinhua) -- A fleet of Chinese marine surveillance ships on regular patrol duty found several Japanese ships in waters around the Diaoyu Islands on Tuesday, according to the State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

In a statement on its website, the SOA said after three Chinese ships spotted the Japanese ships in the waters surrounding the islands, the administration immediately ordered another five ships in the East China Sea to meet the three ships.

Organized in four formations, the eight Chinese ships monitored the Japanese ships from different angles, according to the statement.

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## yusheng

??????????????


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## xuxu1457

yusheng said:


> Chinese fleet monitors Japanese ships around Diaoyu Islands
> 
> 
> 04-23-2013 11:56 BJT Special Reportiaoyu Islands: Chinas Inherent Territory |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIJING, April 23 (Xinhua) -- A fleet of Chinese marine surveillance ships on regular patrol duty found several Japanese ships in waters around the Diaoyu Islands on Tuesday, according to the State Oceanic Administration (SOA).
> 
> In a statement on its website, the SOA said after three Chinese ships spotted the Japanese ships in the waters surrounding the islands, the administration immediately ordered another five ships in the East China Sea to meet the three ships.
> 
> Organized in four formations, the eight Chinese ships monitored the Japanese ships from different angles, according to the statement.


after 168 Japan parliamentaries pray ghosts at 23.04 in Shrine




80 right-wing members want went to Diaoyu island at protection of 10 Japan ships, then 10 CHinese ships Maritime interdiction

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## BDforever

*Japan would respond with force if any attempt is made to land on disputed islands, PM Shinzo Abe has warned. *

His comments came as eight Chinese government ships sailed near East China Sea islands that both nations claim.

A flotilla of 10 fishing boats carrying Japanese activists was also reported to be in the area, as well as the Japanese coastguard.

Mr Abe was speaking in parliament hours after dozens of lawmakers visited a controversial war-linked shrine.

A total of 168 lawmakers paid their respects at the Yasukuni Shrine, which commemorates Japan's war dead, including war criminals, in a move likely to anger regional neighbours who say the shrine is a reminder of Japan's military past.
'Deal strongly'

The warning from the Japanese prime minister was the most explicit to China since Mr Abe took power in December, the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes reports from Tokyo.

Asked in parliament what he would do if Chinese ships tried to land on the disputed islands, Mr Abe said they would be expelled by force.

"Since it has become the Abe government, we have made sure that if there is an instance where there is an intrusion into our territory or it seems that there could be landing on the islands then we will deal will it strongly," he said.

The warning came as eight Chinese ships sailed around the islands - called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.

The Japanese coast guard said it was the highest number of Chinese boats in the area since Tokyo nationalised part of the island chain in September 2012.
A Shinto priest (R) leads a group of Japanese lawmakers to offer prayers for the country's war dead at the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo on the occasion of the shrine's spring festival, 23 April 2013 Visits to Yasukuni Shrine by lawmakers anger Japan's neighbours

China said its ships had been monitoring Japanese vessels. The State Oceanic Administration issued a statement saying three of its ships had "found" several Japanese ships around the islands and "immediately ordered another five ships in the East China Sea to meet the three ships".

Ten Japanese boats carrying around 80 activists arrived in the area early on Tuesday, Reuters news agency reported, monitored by Japanese Coast Guard vessels. Public broadcaster NHK said the boats were carrying "regional lawmakers and members of the foreign media".

Japan's top government spokesman said the "intrusion into territorial waters" was "extremely regrettable". Japan also summoned the Chinese ambassador to protest, reports said.

The territorial row has been rumbling for years but was reignited last year when Japan bought three of the islands from their private Japanese owner.

China claims the island chain, which is controlled by Japan. Taiwan also claims the islands, which offer rich fishing grounds and lie in a strategically important area.

The dispute has led to serious diplomatic tension between China and Japan, most recently in January when Japan said a Chinese frigate locked weapons-controlling radar on one of its navy ships near the islands - something China disputes.
'Backlash'

The visit to the Yasukuni Shrine on Tuesday by lawmakers marking the spring festival is also likely to hit ties between Beijing and Tokyo.

Two cabinet ministers, including Deputy Prime Minister Taro Aso, visited the shrine on Sunday. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe did not visit but made a ritual offering.

South Korea subsequently cancelled a proposed visit by its foreign minister, while China lodged "solemn representations" in response to the ministers' visit.

"Only when Japan faces up to its aggressive past can it embrace the future and develop friendly relations with its Asian neighbours," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said on Monday.

But Japanese lawmaker Hidehisa Otsujji said it was "natural" for "lawmakers to worship at a shrine for people who died for the nation".

"Every nation does this. I don't understand why we get a backlash," he said.

source: BBC News - Japan PM Abe warns China of force over islands landing

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## Fsjal

Oh Japan, you so scary

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## Dillinger

BDforever said:


> *Japan would respond with force if any attempt is made to land on disputed islands, PM Shinzo Abe has warned. *
> 
> His comments came as eight Chinese government ships sailed near East China Sea islands that both nations claim.
> 
> A flotilla of 10 fishing boats carrying Japanese activists was also reported to be in the area, as well as the Japanese coastguard.
> 
> Mr Abe was speaking in parliament hours after dozens of lawmakers visited a controversial war-linked shrine.
> 
> A total of 168 lawmakers paid their respects at the Yasukuni Shrine, which commemorates Japan's war dead, including war criminals, in a move likely to anger regional neighbours who say the shrine is a reminder of Japan's military past.
> 'Deal strongly'
> 
> The warning from the Japanese prime minister was the most explicit to China since Mr Abe took power in December, the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes reports from Tokyo.
> 
> Asked in parliament what he would do if Chinese ships tried to land on the disputed islands, Mr Abe said they would be expelled by force.
> 
> "Since it has become the Abe government, we have made sure that if there is an instance where there is an intrusion into our territory or it seems that there could be landing on the islands then we will deal will it strongly," he said.
> 
> The warning came as eight Chinese ships sailed around the islands - called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.
> 
> The Japanese coast guard said it was the highest number of Chinese boats in the area since Tokyo nationalised part of the island chain in September 2012.
> A Shinto priest (R) leads a group of Japanese lawmakers to offer prayers for the country's war dead at the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo on the occasion of the shrine's spring festival, 23 April 2013 Visits to Yasukuni Shrine by lawmakers anger Japan's neighbours
> 
> China said its ships had been monitoring Japanese vessels. The State Oceanic Administration issued a statement saying three of its ships had "found" several Japanese ships around the islands and "immediately ordered another five ships in the East China Sea to meet the three ships".
> 
> Ten Japanese boats carrying around 80 activists arrived in the area early on Tuesday, Reuters news agency reported, monitored by Japanese Coast Guard vessels. Public broadcaster NHK said the boats were carrying "regional lawmakers and members of the foreign media".
> 
> Japan's top government spokesman said the "intrusion into territorial waters" was "extremely regrettable". Japan also summoned the Chinese ambassador to protest, reports said.
> 
> The territorial row has been rumbling for years but was reignited last year when Japan bought three of the islands from their private Japanese owner.
> 
> China claims the island chain, which is controlled by Japan. Taiwan also claims the islands, which offer rich fishing grounds and lie in a strategically important area.
> 
> The dispute has led to serious diplomatic tension between China and Japan, most recently in January when Japan said a Chinese frigate locked weapons-controlling radar on one of its navy ships near the islands - something China disputes.
> 'Backlash'
> 
> The visit to the Yasukuni Shrine on Tuesday by lawmakers marking the spring festival is also likely to hit ties between Beijing and Tokyo.
> 
> Two cabinet ministers, including Deputy Prime Minister Taro Aso, visited the shrine on Sunday. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe did not visit but made a ritual offering.
> 
> South Korea subsequently cancelled a proposed visit by its foreign minister, while China lodged "solemn representations" in response to the ministers' visit.
> 
> "Only when Japan faces up to its aggressive past can it embrace the future and develop friendly relations with its Asian neighbours," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said on Monday.
> 
> But Japanese lawmaker Hidehisa Otsujji said it was "natural" for "lawmakers to worship at a shrine for people who died for the nation".
> 
> "Every nation does this. I don't understand why we get a backlash," he said.
> 
> source: BBC News - Japan PM Abe warns China of force over islands landing



IF Japan wants to gets its own then it had better carve for itself some greater autonomy outside the "US Umbrella". The Japanese diet brought in a massive amendment to the Japanese constitution- 'allowing the usage of nuclear energy for defense purposes'. Their only bet is to go nuclear..otherwise while they still might have a qualitative edge in many areas- China is rapidly bridging that gap. And they CANNOT match the Chinese forces man to man given the behemoth that the PLA, PLAN and PLAAF are.


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## shuttler

It is just a routine patrol of our men in our territory. Nothing to get alarmed of. Our Dept of Foreign Affairs should stick an automatic prompt to Abe's office

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## shuttler

*Japan war shrine visits anger China, South Korea*
Associated Press &#8211; 5 hrs ago

Japan war shrine visits anger China, South Korea





Associated Press/Kyodo News - A group of Japanese lawmakers are led by a Shinto priest at the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo during an annual spring festival on Tuesday, April 23, 2013. Marking the spring festival, 




Japanese lawmakers leave after their visit to the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo during an annual spring festival on Tuesday, April 23, 2013. Marking the spring festival, 168 lawmakers paid homage to the controversial war shrine. (AP Photo/Koji Sasahara)




In this Sunday, April 21, 2013 photo, Keiji Furuya, state minister in charge of North Korea's past abductions of Japanese nationals, leaves the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo. Japan&#8217;s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe made donations and three Cabinet ministers including Furuya prayed at Tokyo&#8217;s militarist shrine over the weekend, sparking South Korean anger. (AP Photo/Kyodo News)





Japan's Finance Minister Taro Aso (2nd R) bows as he visits the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo, in this photo provided by Kyodo April 21, 2013. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe made a ritual offering of a pine tree to a shrine seen as a symbol of Japan's former militarism on Sunday, a gesture likely to upset Asian victims of Japan's war-time aggression, including China and South Korea. Three Japanese ministers, including Aso, and deputy chief cabinet secretary visited the shrine this weekend

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## Zero_wing

Good this great


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## Fsjal

^This is bad^

If you have nothing to say, go to another thread, Troll. 

Trolls are unwanted guests.
-----
I thought Abe was a nice guy????


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## selvan33

so now we can expect reaction warnings from Mr.xi jingping.

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## Zero_wing

Chinese Imperial Aggression must be stop its is a danger to all Asian Countries. Japan example should be followed evil only wins if good men do nothing about it.


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## northeast

Zero_wing said:


> Chinese Imperial Aggression must be stop its is a danger to all Asian Countries. Japan example should be followed evil only wins if good men do nothing about it.



Hundreds of japanese politicians went to yasukuni shrine to worship WWII war criminal.I wonder why you pathetic pinoys say nothing.

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## Wright

I like this guy. Japan needs to be a nuclear power.


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## Zero_wing

northeast said:


> Hundreds of japanese politicians went to yasukuni shrine to worship WWII war criminal.I wonder why you pathetic pinoys say nothing.



Because we live in the present and we concern of the evils of today and let be you go to mao shrine why are not protesting about the millions he killed? your the real pathetic people around here always since the opium wars hahahaha

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## ChineseTiger1986

Wright said:


> I like this guy. Japan needs to be a nuclear power.



Do you truly believe that a nuclear Japan will only be a threat to China?

They possess the heavy rocket technology which can be easily converted into the solid-fuel ICBM, then it will also become a threat to the US, since those right-wing Nippons have never forgot the two bombs that US awarded to them.

Once the Pandora Box has been opened, it cannot be closed.

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## danger007

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you truly believe that a nuclear Japan will only be a threat to China?
> 
> They possess the heavy rocket technology which can be easily converted into the solid-fuel ICBM, then it will also become a threat to the US, since those right-wing Nippons have never forgot the two bombs that US awarded to them.
> 
> Once the Pandora Box has been opened, it cannot be closed.



Nuclear japan is a threat to china than US....


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## scobydoo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you truly believe that a nuclear Japan will only be a threat to China?
> 
> They possess the heavy rocket technology which can be easily converted into the solid-fuel ICBM, then it will also become a threat to the US, since those right-wing Nippons have never forgot the two bombs that US awarded to them.
> 
> Once the Pandora Box has been opened, it cannot be closed.


agree with you

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## northeast

danger007 said:


> Nuclear japan is a threat to china than US....



Just like a nuclear North Korea is a threat to US than China&#65292;yet some stupid america consistently insist that NK is a threat to china more than US.


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## Soryu

xuxu1457 said:


> after 168 Japan parliamentaries pray ghosts at 23.04 in Shrine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 80 right-wing members want went to Diaoyu island at protection of 10 Japan ships, then 10 CHinese ships Maritime interdiction


What did they do to interdiction Japanese!?


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## anon45

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you truly believe that a nuclear Japan will only be a threat to China?
> 
> They possess the heavy rocket technology which can be easily converted into the solid-fuel ICBM, then it will also become a threat to the US, since those right-wing Nippons have never forgot the two bombs that US awarded to them.
> 
> Once the Pandora Box has been opened, it cannot be closed.



Japan today is trustworthy, unlike North Korea.

A nuclear Japan as a threat to the US should bear no more consideration than British nukes being a threat to the US.


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## Psyops

selvan33 said:


> so now we can expect reaction warnings from Mr.xi jingping.



Why warn when we are patrolling the islands? It's Abe that is warning because we are patrolling islands that Japan had total control over before this dispute arose a few months ago.

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## Wright

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you truly believe that a nuclear Japan will only be a threat to China?
> 
> They possess the heavy rocket technology which can be easily converted into the solid-fuel ICBM, then it will also become a threat to the US, since those right-wing Nippons have never forgot the two bombs that US awarded to them.
> 
> Once the Pandora Box has been opened, it cannot be closed.



I doubt it. Japanese are a peace loving people. Any nukes will be for self protection.They have suffered a lot at the hands of your countrymen and your NK allies. They are completely surrounded by Han Chinese who populate the majority of East Asia. I frankly dont think they have any other alternative to ensure the survival of their distinct people.


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## Psyops

Wright said:


> I doubt it. Japanese are a peace loving people. Any nukes will be for self protection.They have suffered a lot at the hands of your countrymen and your NK allies. They are completely surrounded by Han Chinese who populate the majority of East Asia. I frankly dont think they have any other alternative to ensure the survival of their distinct people.



Saying Japanese are peace loving is like saying Nazis are peace loving. The Japanese killed 30 million innocent Chinese civilians.

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## Viet

Arrogant Chinese need to be taught a lesson. They must feel the pain that they must not invade other country.

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

Viet said:


> Arrogant Chinese need to be taught a lesson. They must feel the pain that they must not invade other country.



They learned a lot of lessons (from Western, Japan...), but seems now they have forgotten...


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## Psyops

Viet said:


> Arrogant Chinese need to be taught a lesson. They must feel the pain that they must not invade other country.



When you are big and powerful, you can do whatever you want. It's good to be Chinese in the 21st century.

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## scherz

Psyops said:


> When you are big and powerful, you can do whatever you want. It's good to be Chinese in the 21st century.



What? U should use the power to take responsibility to create the total "harmony" not like the US or former powers, british Empire etc. they slaved almost the whole world, its time for a change.
I wonder who u guys are acting agressiv as ****. Maybe some west false flagger?


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## Zero_wing

hahaha the Imperials Maoist afraid of Japan have nukes than North Korea since when did Japan have an unstable leader in power? hahahahaha this jokers are just arrogantly stupid


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## Genesis

Zero_wing said:


> hahaha the Imperials Maoist afraid of Japan have nukes than North Korea since when did Japan have an unstable leader in power? hahahahaha this jokers are just arrogantly stupid



Since the Yamato Japanese invaded korea, Oda Nobunaga wanted to do the same, toyotomi hideoshi actually did, saigo takamori planned another, Meiji Japanese government, the Showa emperor Hirohito and Tojo and all the political and military leaders of WW2.

Philippines was conquered and it's people brutalized during WW2 or was I mistaken?

But you guys don't care about humiliations do you? Hence your best friend is also your colonial master.

Since Shinzo abe wanted to build a Japanese army.

is that enough? Sorry my knowledge is limited that I can only name these

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## cnleio

Only those un-nuke, small, poor country always dream to beat a nuclear power ... a Joke very bad for ur nation coz not as many as ur ppl could lose in a mad war.

U.S, Russia, China, Britain, France five nuclear powers not as stupid as u thought yet, these new nuclear powers like India, Pakistan, Israel, N.Korea(maybe) all have smart relationships with above five countries and deeply background supports.

Less countries own nuke, more Peace this world, or all of human would involved in the nuke wars. If U.S allow Japan own nuke, they could admit it 40 years ago like Israel. *But the Japan is not Israel for American.* Only the stupid would wish ur potential competitors to own powerful weapons as similar as in ur hands, like F-22 forbid to export only sell F-35. 

Japan to own NUKE == U.S sell F-22 to Japan, Impossible~!

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## Zero_wing

Again we have forgive nature filipinos don't hold long grudge that stretch generations not unless we are being trouble by the same people in that case i join you but we are tough to try to tolerate and forgive but there is resentment but its for the World war two generation of the Japaneses only we don't not include the post war generation besides we like the post war Generation because they have nothing to do with the war in the first place and i think they should put the terrible things their grandfathers did to others and admit it other than that we cool with them and Japan has been helping us and repaying us for the war with a lot of infrastructure, aid etc and they apologies to us every araw ng kagitingan (Day of Valor) that we celebrate every April 9 so in terms of apologies and more we got a lot from Japanese there are some issues but the relations we share has given both sides benefits i mean since we are so easy to be Educated on Language we have a lot of nurse, teachers, engineers etc to Japan which benefit us both lastly we see your country as threat to world peace not just my country and japan feels the same so say what ever you want but as long as your government does not follow international laws and agreements and continue to threaten our EZZ and the Philippines no amount of resentment will divided us because one both the Philippines and Japan has been threaten by your country with war even and two Japan and the Philippines follow International Law and be willing to use all peaceful means under said rules but china insist on pressure tactics aka the so called bilateral talk and thirdly they express to create a alliance and even if we done all our modernization for our military it would be impossible to fight alone so naturally in case of war we need a strong alliance but the goal of both is to solve it under international law and peacefully means with fairness for all parties. Regarding your question of rebuilding Japans military i don't think they would rebuild the old Imperial military i think its just to expand the Self defense forces the Japanese are very sensitive about any military reestablishment i mean its hard enough to change the constitution let alone the defense forces but they all agree that the self defense forces should be strengthen which is good if the idea is defend yourselves and your allies because technically they can only be deploy in Japan and peace keeping only they can fight with anyone if they have allies and be deploy outside of Japan but if they manage to pull it off a new Japanese military (i don't know if they going to make the Emperor the Supreme Commander of the military hence the word Imperial but that's other issue) but it would be more a like South Korean Military can help other countries but more on defense of the Home land besides its there country. 

I do Understand the anger here i know we have some horrible stories and my Grandparents fought as members of the Philippine Commonwealth Army and the Philippine Resistance (I come from a long line of soldier all the way from the Philippine Revolution) but my anger is the World War 2 Japanese and i know what you going to say that they honor A class war criminals true but one its their culture to honor dead people you chinese also do this and two even tough i hate this but since they been made kami (gods) you can't an kami them its like being a saint you once you been made a saint you can be un saint too bad it was a mistake i know but its done nothing we say will change that still the modern Japanese can choice to apologies to us (which they always every world war 2 celebration here in the Philippines) but they are not obligated to do so so means no one can force them too its a moral thing they morally obligated to but not obligated to the World War 2 Japanese Generation should not the post war. I hope that answer your questions since you ask politely and normally with no racist or arrogant tone i will not use the Normal method of answering question to your country men to show to you that only hostile to hostile not to civil people like yourself thank you and if you have other question (with hostile of course) i would be very happy to tell you to go to hell.



cnleio said:


> Only those un-nuke, small, poor country always dream to beat a nuclear power ... a Joke very bad for ur nation coz not as many as ur ppl could lose in a mad war.
> 
> U.S, Russia, China, Britain, France five nuclear powers not as stupid as u thought yet, these new nuclear powers like India, Pakistan, Israel, N.Korea(maybe) all have smart relationships with above five countries and deeply background supports.
> 
> Less countries own nuke, more Peace this world, or all of human would involved in the nuke wars. If U.S allow Japan own nuke, they could admit it 40 years ago like Israel. *But the Japan is not Israel for American.* Only the stupid would wish ur potential competitors to own powerful weapons as similar as in ur hands, like F-22 forbid to export only sell F-35.
> 
> Japan to own NUKE == U.S sell F-22 to Japan, Impossible~!



F22 sir is for American use only they made it clear but the F35 is being sold in fact that the reason why Japan lifts its arm export ban to join the F35 development and be part of the first countries to get the F35 you guys can attack them if you like so you can test your theory.



cnleio said:


> Only those un-nuke, small, poor country always dream to beat a nuclear power ... a Joke very bad for ur nation coz not as many as ur ppl could lose in a mad war.
> 
> U.S, Russia, China, Britain, France five nuclear powers not as stupid as u thought yet, these new nuclear powers like India, Pakistan, Israel, N.Korea(maybe) all have smart relationships with above five countries and deeply background supports.
> 
> Less countries own nuke, more Peace this world, or all of human would involved in the nuke wars. If U.S allow Japan own nuke, they could admit it 40 years ago like Israel. *But the Japan is not Israel for American.* Only the stupid would wish ur potential competitors to own powerful weapons as similar as in ur hands, like F-22 forbid to export only sell F-35.
> 
> Japan to own NUKE == U.S sell F-22 to Japan, Impossible~!



F22 sir is for American use only they made it clear but the F35 is being sold in fact that the reason why Japan lifts its arm export ban to join the F35 development and be part of the first countries to get the F35 you guys can attack them if you like so you can test your theory.

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## grandmaster

BDforever said:


> *Japan would respond with force if any attempt is made to land on disputed islands, PM Shinzo Abe has warned. *
> 
> His comments came as eight Chinese government ships sailed near East China Sea islands that both nations claim.
> 
> A flotilla of 10 fishing boats carrying Japanese activists was also reported to be in the area, as well as the Japanese coastguard.
> 
> Mr Abe was speaking in parliament hours after dozens of lawmakers visited a controversial war-linked shrine.
> 
> A total of 168 lawmakers paid their respects at the Yasukuni Shrine, which commemorates Japan's war dead, including war criminals, in a move likely to anger regional neighbours who say the shrine is a reminder of Japan's military past.
> 'Deal strongly'
> 
> The warning from the Japanese prime minister was the most explicit to China since Mr Abe took power in December, the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes reports from Tokyo.
> 
> Asked in parliament what he would do if Chinese ships tried to land on the disputed islands, Mr Abe said they would be expelled by force.
> 
> "Since it has become the Abe government, we have made sure that if there is an instance where there is an intrusion into our territory or it seems that there could be landing on the islands then we will deal will it strongly," he said.
> 
> The warning came as eight Chinese ships sailed around the islands - called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.
> 
> The Japanese coast guard said it was the highest number of Chinese boats in the area since Tokyo nationalised part of the island chain in September 2012.
> A Shinto priest (R) leads a group of Japanese lawmakers to offer prayers for the country's war dead at the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo on the occasion of the shrine's spring festival, 23 April 2013 Visits to Yasukuni Shrine by lawmakers anger Japan's neighbours
> 
> China said its ships had been monitoring Japanese vessels. The State Oceanic Administration issued a statement saying three of its ships had "found" several Japanese ships around the islands and "immediately ordered another five ships in the East China Sea to meet the three ships".
> 
> Ten Japanese boats carrying around 80 activists arrived in the area early on Tuesday, Reuters news agency reported, monitored by Japanese Coast Guard vessels. Public broadcaster NHK said the boats were carrying "regional lawmakers and members of the foreign media".
> 
> Japan's top government spokesman said the "intrusion into territorial waters" was "extremely regrettable". Japan also summoned the Chinese ambassador to protest, reports said.
> 
> The territorial row has been rumbling for years but was reignited last year when Japan bought three of the islands from their private Japanese owner.
> 
> China claims the island chain, which is controlled by Japan. Taiwan also claims the islands, which offer rich fishing grounds and lie in a strategically important area.
> 
> The dispute has led to serious diplomatic tension between China and Japan, most recently in January when Japan said a Chinese frigate locked weapons-controlling radar on one of its navy ships near the islands - something China disputes.
> 'Backlash'
> 
> The visit to the Yasukuni Shrine on Tuesday by lawmakers marking the spring festival is also likely to hit ties between Beijing and Tokyo.
> 
> Two cabinet ministers, including Deputy Prime Minister Taro Aso, visited the shrine on Sunday. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe did not visit but made a ritual offering.
> 
> South Korea subsequently cancelled a proposed visit by its foreign minister, while China lodged "solemn representations" in response to the ministers' visit.
> 
> "Only when Japan faces up to its aggressive past can it embrace the future and develop friendly relations with its Asian neighbours," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said on Monday.
> 
> But Japanese lawmaker Hidehisa Otsujji said it was "natural" for "lawmakers to worship at a shrine for people who died for the nation".
> 
> "Every nation does this. I don't understand why we get a backlash," he said.
> 
> source: BBC News - Japan PM Abe warns China of force over islands landing



Abe wants to mislead international media about what happens there. we must clarify who want to land first, they are Japanese not chinese. why doesn't he warn these Japanese people? because he is misleading and lying. Chinese media should tell the world about that.


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## xuxu1457

The party who is guilty are the first to sue&#65292; Japan are good at this from the history. No need to worry, Japan's neighbor South Korea China Russia always know this and don't trust Japan

*South Korea said:Japan's Drift to the Far Right Hurts Stability in Northeast Asia*
The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Japan's Drift to the Far Right Hurts Stability in Northeast Asia
Foreign Minister Yun Byung-se canceled a two-day trip to Japan scheduled for this Friday after Japanese Cabinet members paid their respects at a nationalist shrine in Tokyo. 

Yun's visit was "aimed at laying out a big direction between the new governments of Korea and Japan," a Foreign Ministry official here said. But he added, "In this kind of atmosphere, our stance is that a productive discussion would be impossible." 

Japanese Deputy Prime Minister Taro Aso was among three senior Cabinet members to visit the Yasukuni Shrine, which honors convicted war criminals among Japan's war dead.

It was the first visit to the shrine by officials in Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's Cabinet. Abe did not visit Yasukuni in person but sent an offering instead. 

A planned trilateral summit between the leaders of Korea, China and Japan now looks likely to be scrapped since China already declined to set a date. According to a government source here, Tokyo quickly accepted a Korean proposal to hold the summit in Seoul on May 25-26 but Beijing was non-committal. 

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang, who came into office in March, apparently does not want to a meeting with Abe to be his first official summit. 

President Park Geun-hye wants to visit China after her trip to the U.S. in early May, but a Cheong Wa Dae official said a visit to Japan is "not under consideration." 

It is rare for countries to cancel or postpone summits and ministerial meetings, especially when they have new governments. But it seems now that Seoul and Beijing do not want even a ceremonial show of meeting the Japanese leadership. Officials here say that even if the leaders or foreign ministers of Korea and Japan agree to pursue a "future-oriented relationship," improving ties must remain a pipe dream due to Tokyo's constant missteps, be they attempts to whitewash Japan's wartime atrocities in school books, its flimsy colonial claim to Korea's Dokdo islets, or visits to the Yasukuni Shrine. 

Japan got a long-awaited jolt of energy with the launch of the Abe administration late last year. Abe enjoys an approval rating of almost 80 percent. But Korea's and China's view of the rightwing Japanese government is growing dimmer by the day. 

The Abe administration's attitude toward Japan's wartime past is the most regressive of any Japanese administration so far. This is causing Seoul to think twice about forging closer ties with Tokyo. And Beijing agrees. 

By paying homage to the Yasukuni Shrine, Japan's political leaders may be seeking to drum up support for their bid to revise their country's pacifist constitution. But the more they behave this way, the more suspicious Japan's Asian neighbors will become, which will only increase Tokyo's diplomatic isolation.

That not only exacerbates Seoul's dilemma in searching for solutions to bilateral issues but makes multilateral cooperation in pursuing peace and stability in Northeast Asia ever more difficult.


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## hoangsa

Japanese is maybe fierce but more reliable. Japanese say yes means yes, say no means no. Chinese say somethings but do other things. Chinese say and listen among them. The world hear and just laugh, they focus on what Chinese will do. 

Vietnames ( and Philipino ) are waiting Japanese ( and Indian ) to kick *** their greedy neighbor. 

KICK THEIR *** SAMURAI ! ! !

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## grandmaster

hoangsa said:


> Japanese is maybe fierce but more reliable. Japanese say yes means yes, say no means no. Chinese say somethings but do other things. Chinese say and listen among them. The world hear and just laugh, they focus on what Chinese will do.
> 
> Vietnames ( and Philipino ) are waiting Japanese ( and Indian ) to kick *** their greedy neighbor.
> 
> KICK THEIR *** SAMURAI ! ! !



in reality, we all see they are opposite. for example:

-last year, when Japanese nationalist group known as Ganbare Nippon committed to its government that it would not land on these islands, but they did. only stupid people trust Japanese!
-Also, last year, Noda committed japan would not allow any one land on these islands, in reality, japan coastal guard escort these nationalist to these islands. Even a Japanese PM lied, we are not stupid to trust Japanese.
-After WWII, japan committed fully to its crime but what they are doing now is to pay homage to Japanese fascist war criminals today (4/23/2013). only fascist-like people like japan.

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## xuxu1457

Japan denied Japan Invaded Asian Neighbors in WII , this made South Korea and China angry
The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Abe Denies Japan Invaded Asian Neighbors

*South Korea:Abe Denies Japan Invaded Asian Neighbors*
In a further lurch to the far right, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe told lawmakers on Tuesday that he does not believe Japan's occupation of other Asian countries during World War II can be considered "invasions." 

Abe claimed there are no set international or academic definitions of the word. "It depends on the point of view of individual countries," he said, referring to a statement in 1995 by then-Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama, which apologized to all Asian victims of Japanese aggression and from which rightwingers are scrambling to distance themselves.

Japan occupied Korea from 1910 to 1945 and invaded China and several Southeast Asian nations during an aggressive expansion to create what was billed as the "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere." 

Experts here slammed Abe's remarks. Ko Sang-tu at Yonsei University said, "That is simply absurd. It's like saying Hitler's invasion of Poland wasn't really an invasion. If a German chancellor had said the same thing, he or she would have had to resign." 

Abe told lawmakers on Monday that he does not feel bound by the Murayama statement. The global press was alarmed, with the New York Times saying he sought to whitewash his country's World War II atrocities, while the Economist warned that the right-leaning Japanese Cabinet is a bad sign for the region. 

Abe said Japan's pacifist constitution was put together by what he called "occupying forces," referring to the victorious U.S. at the end of the war.

The constitution, which stipulates the country's desire for peace and pledges a policy of non-aggression, effectively "entrusted the lives and safety of the public to the goodwill of other countries," he claimed. 

This suggests he is throwing his weight behind moves from the far right to revise the constitution so the Japanese military can launch pre-emptive strikes abroad.





Japanese lawmakers pay homage at the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo on Tuesday. /Reuters-Newsis

On Monday, Deputy Prime Minister Taro Aso and other Japanese politicians visited Tokyo's Yasukuni Shrine, which houses the remains of Japan's war dead including convicted war criminals. On Tuesday, 168 members of the Diet followed suit, the biggest number of lawmakers since 1989. 

The Japanese media were critical of the stunt. The Asahi Shimbun urged cabinet members to exercise "restraint" in speech as well as action, while the Mainichi Shimbun warned Japan's "national interests are at risk" if such strain is put on cooperation with China and South Korea in trying to rein in North Korea.

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## cnleio

@Zero_wing, I do not care b@llsh!t ideas and do not care ur family story. U and some Vietnamese members here wanna kiss Japanese @$s, it's ur business not mine.Go ahead~! For me, it just means only the weakness wish other stronger one to help them and hit which one they never defeat.
Yes beg more supports and equipments from Japan, now the islands sinking and pls make it more quick. (Google current Japan economy issues)

Did u know why the country still poor and weakness ? Coz local ppl hate their government,hate politicians, hate the poor, many smart ppl and genius go abroad nobody care ur country,and left ur poor ppl contiue begging supports from foreigns. Go ahead~ kiss foreigners, but pls do not confuse Chinese and urs, our attitudes completely r different.





Zero_wing said:


> F22 sir is for American use only they made it clear but the F35 is being sold in fact that the reason why Japan lifts its arm export ban to join the F35 development and be part of the first countries to get the F35 you guys can attack them if you like so you can test your theory.


Why not read foreign news carefully ? 
Why not collect related information from the internet ?? 
Why not analysis foreign intelligence before getting ur conclusion ??? 

I found u and few ppl in this thread, just living their own dream world. U just talk about ur own ideas but the world is not as simple as u thought ... Japan had seeked for F-22, Japanese wanna F-22 as the best next gen fighter for them after F-15J (F-2 also a joint designed fighter) but U.S refuse coz they worried about sensitive information leakage including leak to Japanese.


FlightGlobal:Japan seeks foreign engines for stealth fighter prototypes


> Japan had wanted to buy Lockheed Martin's F-22 to meet its future fighter requirement, but the US government has barred exports of the type and agreed to halt production for the US Air Force. Tokyo has responded by vowing to develop its own fifth-generation fighter under the ATD-X programme.




Reuters: Japan eyes Lockheed Martin's F-22 fighter jet


> WHY HAS THE UNITED STATES AVOIDED EXPORTING THE F-22?
> A 1998 law passed by Congress banned foreign sales of the Raptor to keep secret the aircraft's radar-evading "stealth" technology. Past leaks of confidential information from Japan's Defence Ministry have underscored such concerns. But the prospect that production of the F-22 may soon end, affecting jobs in many parts of the United States, has prompted a push among U.S. lawmakers to develop an export version that could be sold to Japan.
> U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, however, has repeatedly said he wants to cap production at 187 aircraft, the last of which would roll off the production line in late 2011 or early 2012.




F-22 fighters for Japan


> After 2011, the F-22&#8217;s costs will grow significantly, so Japan and its U.S. supporters have little time to nail down a deal. However, some U.S. officials have long doubted that Japan can afford to pay for the F-22, which is why the George W. Bush and Obama administrations have not seriously promoted the F-22 for Japan. Mr. Gates reportedly favors selling Tokyo the smaller, somewhat less capable and less expensive Lockheed-Martin F-35 Lighting II.




FlightGlobal: Export Ready? The F-22


> Wider knowledge of the F-22's capabilities is stimulating export interest, but political and technical hurdles remain. Instead the USA has tried to steer attention towards the Lockheed Martin F-35, which shares many of the same stealth, sensor and software technologies.
> "The problem is there is no provision in the F-22 for technology security," says Thompson. "The F-35 was designed from its inception to protect sensitive technology."
> Thompson says Japan's particular interest is the F-22's capability against cruise missiles, with its supercruise performance and powerful radar allowing the fighter to intercept the weapons at long range.
> He expects a decision will be taken to release enough information to enable Japan to decide whether it wants the Raptor.




F-22 and Nuke bombs, which is more powerful, do u get ? And IF Japan already own their nuke, im sure there must be other country which has good relationships with China or Russia will also own the same weapons.

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## cnleio

@Zero_wing, keep staying in U.S and tell other ppl here the China threat the PEACE of world. A true patriot, not like a crying Chihuahua.

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## Soryu

hoangsa said:


> Japanese is maybe fierce but more reliable. Japanese say yes means yes, say no means no. Chinese say somethings but do other things. Chinese say and listen among them. The world hear and just laugh, they focus on what Chinese will do.
> 
> Vietnames ( and Philipino ) are waiting Japanese ( and Indian ) to kick *** their greedy neighbor.
> 
> KICK THEIR *** SAMURAI ! ! !



Well, no need for Japan step in SCS now and near future, only ASEAN can solve problems if We stand firmly before China like now.

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## Zero_wing

cnleio said:


> @Zero_wing, I do not care b@llsh!t ideas and do not care ur family story. U and some Vietnamese members here wanna kiss Japanese @$s, it's ur business not mine.Go ahead~! For me, it just means only the weakness wish other stronger one to help them and hit which one they never defeat.
> Yes beg more supports and equipments from Japan, now the islands sinking and pls make it more quick. (Google current Japan economy issues)
> 
> Did u know why the country still poor and weakness ? Coz local ppl hate their government,hate politicians, hate the poor, many smart ppl and genius go abroad nobody care ur country,and left ur poor ppl contiue begging supports from foreigns. Go ahead~ kiss foreigners, but pls do not confuse Chinese and urs, our attitudes completely r different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not read foreign news carefully ?
> Why not collect related information from the internet ??
> Why not analysis foreign intelligence before getting ur conclusion ???
> 
> I found u and few ppl in this thread, just living their own dream world. U just talk about ur own ideas but the world is not as simple as u thought ... Japan had seeked for F-22, Japanese wanna F-22 as the best next gen fighter for them after F-15J (F-2 also a joint designed fighter) but U.S refuse coz they worried about sensitive information leakage including leak to Japanese.
> 
> 
> FlightGlobal:Japan seeks foreign engines for stealth fighter prototypes
> 
> 
> 
> Reuters: Japan eyes Lockheed Martin's F-22 fighter jet
> 
> 
> 
> F-22 fighters for Japan
> 
> 
> 
> FlightGlobal: Export Ready? The F-22
> 
> 
> 
> F-22 and Nuke bombs, which is more powerful, do u get ? And IF Japan already own their nuke, im sure there must be other country which has good relationships with China or Russia will also own the same weapons.



Well the feeling is mutual i don't care about your country at all as i said your threat to world peace



cnleio said:


> @Zero_wing, keep staying in U.S and tell other ppl here the China threat the PEACE of world. A true patriot, not like a crying Chihuahua.



Dont need to your people are going all the work for me so thank your $tupids


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## ChineseTiger1986

Zero_wing said:


> hahaha the Imperials Maoist afraid of Japan have nukes than North Korea since when did Japan have an unstable leader in power? hahahahaha this jokers are just arrogantly stupid



Are you kidding me?

If they are allowed to have the nuclear weapons, then it will be pre-emptive strike against the four islands.

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## Zero_wing

Man how stupid can one person get first they the only nation hit by nuke before chenobol tell me? why use a weapon that still continue to kill people how were there after years since it was fired? and Ever Human knows this that no body wins a nuke war i mean no body even those who fire the damn thing why do you think nobody even in the height of the Cold War fired a nuke out of anger? In fact all they need is to change their constitution they have the technology and yet they still refuse to do so? And Dont tell me American colonial thing again because if that's the best argument you have then you are brainless. See this why your $tupid illogical worn brains use your brains for once that's why your afraid to go to the UN and face us because you have mind set like this and that's why with nukes plus a high nationalist military with no common sense and humanity constitute you guys a global threat next North Korea


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## Viet

See how pathetic Chinese are! Always keen on bullying weaker opponents like VN and PN, never dare to challenge America, Japan nor Russia. Look how greedy their claims are, in the South and East China Sea, mostly based on hot air.

WTF, ...discovered since ancient times.

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## Sasquatch

Please get back onto the topic now.

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## romia

Viet said:


> See how pathetic Chinese are! Always keen on bullying weaker opponents like VN and PN, never dare to challenge America, Japan nor Russia. Look how greedy their claims are, in the South and East China Sea, mostly based on hot air.
> 
> WTF, ...discovered since ancient times.



never dare to challenge US ,Japan dogs and Russia?
what you said is nothing but bullshit 
Challenge US depend only on force?no , its absolutely a stupid or even idiot idea from u
US is since a totoally alternative opponent at front of us ,distinct from ur vietnamese.We use intellectual mind to deal with them;Only Ur mighty and powerfull vietname maybe use the power to fight with the US ,nowaday.hahaha.
Japan is nothing but a dog ,Its only submit to mighty and the strongest one on earth.So ,to them,China would use nothing but force to counter them,maybe not right now,but near future.I'm so sure.
As for the other country,if less than absolutely necessary&#65292;We will never give up friendship.
This policy u never know in view of ur telligence.
So stop barking here,Okay

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## M.harris

romia said:


> never dare to challenge US ,Japan dogs and Russia?
> what you said is nothing but bullshit
> Challenge US depend only on force?no , its absolutely a stupid or even idiot idea from u
> US is since a totoally alternative opponent at front of us ,distinct from ur vietnamese.We use intellectual mind to deal with them;Only Ur mighty and powerfull vietname maybe use the power to fight with the US ,nowaday.hahaha.
> Japan is nothing but a dog ,Its only submit to mighty and the strongest one on earth.So ,to them,China would use nothing but force to counter them,maybe not right now,but near future.I'm so sure.
> As for the other country,if less than absolutely necessary&#65292;We will never give up friendship.
> This policy u never know in view of ur telligence.
> So stop barking here,Okay



welcome to

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## shuttler

SATURDAY, APRIL 27, 2013

*Idiosyncratic Japan Is Where Prime Minister Does Cosplay, Pretending He's a Tank Commander
*
#Idiosyncratic Japan Is Where Prime Minister Does Cosplay, Pretending He's a Tank Commander | EXSKF







The occasion was some kind of expo at Makuhari Messe in Chiba, attended by people (mostly men from what I've seen) who are very much into costume play and like the world of make-belief.

The expo, "NicoNico Chokaigi 2", is backed by the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, and the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry. There are booths by Liberal Democratic Party, Japan Restoration Party, Japan Communist Party, and Democratic Party of Japan as well as Self Defense Force and the US Military stationed in Japan.

So, it's got to be that wonderful government-sponsored idea of "Cool Japan" where they live the make-belief "reality" of manga, anime, and video games. Quite fitting for a country where boys are like baby-faced girls and girls wear extra-large color contact lenses to look like manga heroines.

From Mainichi Shinbun (4/27/2013):


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## HongWu

Japan's Special Forces Chief General (responsible for countering PLA in a Diaoyu Island conflict) died in a traffic accident in Tokyo today crossing the street. (He was probably thinking about a PLA attack and failed to pay attention to traffic )


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## hoangsa

> Japan Refuses To Sign Nuclear Treaty Joint Statement



Good news for Chinese...ha...ha...
To nations like Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, Phillipine..etc...Japan own nuclear weapon is not worse nor better, however, the only nation get "glad" like carzy is China...ha...ha... Congrat big China !

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## Devil Soul

*China ships sail into 'disputed waters'*
Three government vessels sail into Senkaku islands, which China calls Diaoyu in move that may spark a diplomatic clash.
Last Modified: 05 May 2013 10:11
Three Chinese government ships have sailed into the waters of disputed Tokyo-controlled islands, according to Japan's coastguard.

The maritime surveillance ships entered the 12-nautical-mile zone off the Senkaku islands, which China calls the Diaoyu, around 11am (0200 GMT) on Sunday.

Chinese government ships have frequently sailed around the five islands in recent months, sparking diplomatic clashes with Japan.

In late April, eight Chinese government vessels sailed into the disputed waters, the biggest flotilla in a single day since Tokyo nationalised part of the island chain in September.

The move sparked an angry response, with Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe vowing to "expel by force" any Chinese landing on the archipelago, which is believed to harbour vast natural resources below its seabed.

The developments come as China's first passenger cruise made its way to the South China Sea Paracel Islands to which several East Asian countries have laid claim.

Source: AFP

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## HongWu

HongWu said:


> Japan's Special Forces Chief General (responsible for countering PLA in a Diaoyu Island conflict) died in a traffic accident in Tokyo today crossing the street. (He was probably thinking about a PLA attack and failed to pay attention to traffic )


Japan's Special Forces Chief General (responsible for countering PLA in a Diaoyu Island conflict) was neutralized without firing a gunshot! Suffering such a massive blow, Japan stands no chance against China.

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## Soryu

LOL, Chinese mental guy was helpless like always.

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## shuttler

*U.S. urged not to take sides over Diaoyu Islands
*

Editor: Mu Xuequan

Xinhuanet.com

BEIJING, May 7 (Xinhua) -- The United States has been urged not to take sides in the China-Japan territory dispute concerning the Diaoyu Islands, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said on Tuesday.

The remarks of Hua Chunying came in response to a Pentagon report questioning China's straight baseline claims around the Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea.

The annual Pentagon report, released on Monday, said in September 2012 China began using improperly drawn straight baseline claims around the Diaoyu Islands, adding to its network of maritime claims inconsistent with international law.

Hua reaffirmed that the Diaoyu Islands and their adjacent islets have been the Chinese territory since ancient times, and China owns indisputable sovereignty over the islands.

The Chinese government has drawn the straight baseline of the Diaoyu Islands and their adjacent islets fully in compliance with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and relevant international practices, Hua told a daily press briefing.

The United States has repeatedly said it does not have a position on the island dispute. "We hope the U.S. will match its words with its actions," the spokeswoman said.

She urged the U.S. side to do more that will help regional peace and stability and not to send wrong signals.


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## shuttler

Devil Soul said:


> *China ships sail into 'disputed waters'*
> 
> Three government vessels sail into Senkaku islands, which China calls Diaoyu in move that may spark a diplomatic clash.
> Last Modified: 05 May 2013 10:11
> 
> Three Chinese government ships have sailed into the waters of disputed Tokyo-controlled islands, according to Japan's coastguard.
> 
> *The maritime surveillance ships entered the 12-nautical-mile zone off the Senkaku islands, which China calls the Diaoyu, around 11am (0200 GMT) on Sunday.
> *
> Chinese government ships have *frequently sailed around the five islands* in recent months, sparking diplomatic clashes with Japan.
> 
> *In late April, eight Chinese government vessels sailed into the disputed waters, the biggest flotilla in a single day since Tokyo nationalised part of the island chain in September.
> *
> The move sparked an angry response, with Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe vowing to "expel by force" any Chinese landing on the archipelago, which is believed to harbour vast natural resources below its seabed.
> 
> *The developments come as China's first passenger cruise made its way to the South China Sea  &#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;Xisha (Paracel) Islands to which several East Asian countries have laid claim.
> *
> Source: AFP



*Correction made*

Keep up with all these activities&#65281;


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## hoangsa

Now, Chinese want to take Okinawa island from Japanese. Very very ridiculous....
Chinese think they are son of God and they own the whole world...really crazy guys

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## Soryu

hoangsa said:


> Now, Chinese want to take Okinawa island from Japanese. Very very ridiculous....
> Chinese think they are son of God and they own the whole world...really crazy guys


Well, They were call themselve is "Trung Hoa" ...


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## romia

hoangsa said:


> Now, Chinese want to take Okinawa island from Japanese. Very very ridiculous....
> Chinese think they are son of God and they own the whole world...really crazy guys


how do u know the diaoyu island belongs to Japan?
Just from ur distorted viewpoint?
Actually ,we have amount and enough historic evidence to support the viewpoint ,that's the Island of DianYu belong to us ,The People's Repulic of China ,not the aggressive Japanese dog.
So pls express ur viewpoint valid and through ur own brain other than a mouthful of running train


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## Foxhound31

Well, if China and Japan were to take this issue up in an international court of law, it would most likely side with Japan. 

You're more than welcome to google up these two academic articles

Helfin, William B. &#8220;Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands Dispute: Japan and China Oceans Apart.&#8221; Asian-Pacific Law & Policy Journal 1.2 (2000). Online.

Ramos-Mrosovsky, Carlos. &#8220;International Law&#8217;s Unhelpful Role in the Senkaku Islands.&#8221; University of Pennsylvania Journal of International Law 29.4 (2008): 903-946. Print.

Sadly, since China would most likely not accept a ruling against them...it doesn't really matter

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## Jguo

*Japan WWII 'comfort women' were 'necessary' - Hashimoto*

bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22519384

(I can't post links yet sorry)

Anyone seen this yet? How can it be resolved peacefully when Major politicians in Japan still publicly declare things like this up till this day? What do you expect China, Korea and SEA countries to think of Japan when the Mayor of Osaka goes one step further by openly claiming Japan's wartime crimes are 'necessary' and 'justified'? Reconciliation and cooperation requires humility and understanding, not poking at sore spots of those who were wounded in the past.

I expect trolls on PDF to come up with things like this, not a prominent politician.

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## longyi

*Japan WWII 'comfort women' were 'necessary' - Hashimoto*










Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto said the "comfort women" gave soldiers putting their lives at risk a chance "to rest".

He acknowledged that the women had been acting "against their will".

Some 200,000 women in territories occupied by Japan during WWII are estimated to have been forced into becoming sex slaves for troops.

Many of the women came from China and South Korea, but also from the Philippines, Indonesia and Taiwan.

Japan's treatment of its wartime role has been a frequent source of tension with its neighbours.

Mr Hashimoto, the co-founder of the nationalist Japanese Restoration Party, was the youngest governor in Japanese history before becoming mayor of Osaka.

He said last year that Japan needed "a dictatorship".

In his latest controversial comments, quoted by Japanese media, he said: "In the circumstances in which bullets are flying like rain and wind, the soldiers are running around at the risk of losing their lives,"

"If you want them to have a rest in such a situation, a comfort women system is necessary. Anyone can understand that." 

He also claimed that Japan was not the only country to use the system, though it was responsible for its actions.

He said he backed a 1995 statement by Japan's then-PM Tomiichi Murayama, in which he apologised for its wartime actions in Asia.

"It is a result of the tragedy of the war that they became comfort women against their will. The responsibility for the war also lies with Japan. We have to politely offer kind words to [former] comfort women."


BBC News - Japan WWII 'comfort women' were 'necessary' - Hashimoto


It seems these Japanese right wingers are keep shooting themselves on the feet, keep it up!


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## Vitchilo

Those Japanese right wingers should have their teeth kicked in for spewing such bull...


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## octopusonhead

It's time for us to take Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto out to the woods and turn him into our sex slave and lets see how necessary he thinks it is after were done with his booty.


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## longyi

*Chinese army general says Okinawa not Japan's*



BEIJING - A senior Chinese military officer has said the Ryukyu Islands -- which include Okinawa and its US military bases -- "do not belong to Japan", as a territorial row mounts between the Asian powers.

The comments by People's Liberation Army Major General Luo Yuan were published by the China News Service website Tuesday, after the country's leading newspaper last week carried a call to review Tokyo's sovereignty over the chain.

Luo emphasised that the islands were historically in a vassal relationship with imperial Chinese dynasties.

Those ties did not necessarily mean they were part of China, he said, adding: "But we can be certain of one point. The Ryukyus don't belong to Japan."

"(If) the Ryukyus don't belong to you," he said, referring to Tokyo, "how can you talk about the Diaoyus?"

China and Japan have been in a long-running dispute over islands in the East China Sea that Tokyo administers as the Senkakus, but Beijing claims as the Diaoyus.

The row intensified last year after Japan purchased islands in the chain it did not already own, sparking outrage in China, with anti-Japanese demonstrations taking place in Chinese cities.

Chinese vessels regularly enter waters around the islands and Japan has scrambled jets to ward off Chinese flights in the area, stoking fears of armed conflict.

Analysts have said questions in China about the Ryukyus' status are probably aimed at pressuring Japan to make concessions in the dispute over the islands, which are administratively part of Okinawa prefecture.

Luo seemed to back up such a view, saying that by raising the issue of the Ryukyus, China struck a blow at Japan's "soft spot".

Last Wednesday, the People's Daily, China's most-circulated newspaper and the mouthpiece of the ruling Communist party, carried an article by scholars arguing that the country may have rights to the Ryukyus.

Japan says the islands are its territory and are accepted as such internationally.

Before being annexed into Japan in the late 19th century, the independent Ryukyu kingdom, centred on Okinawa, paid tribute to China for centuries -- as did numerous other traditional Asian states -- often receiving favourable trading rights in return.

Okinawa hosts major US air force and marine bases and is home to 1.3 million people. The US military occupied Okinawa and some other islands in the Ryukyu chain for 27 years after the end of World War II, returning them to Japan on May 15, 1972.

Chinese army general says Okinawa not Japan's - Channel NewsAsia


First Chinese official to argue Okinawa does not belong to Japan after scholars published the same opinion in People Daily last week.


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## soaringeagle

Vitchilo said:


> Those Japanese right wingers should have their teeth kicked in for spewing such bull...



In a way, they are rubbing coal on their country's face.


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## HongWu

Did China shoot down a USAF F-15 yesterday in the East China Sea?!

F-15 down off Okinawa: F-15 plane crash raises more questions than answers


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## Minjitta

HongWu said:


> Did China shoot down a USAF F-15 yesterday in the East China Sea?!
> 
> F-15 down off Okinawa: F-15 plane crash raises more questions than answers


Yes China did shoot down F-15 with slingshot made in China LOL

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## bigest

Iindisputable ,diaoyu islands belongs to china.


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## Soryu

HongWu said:


> Did China shoot down a USAF F-15 yesterday in the East China Sea?!
> 
> F-15 down off Okinawa: F-15 plane crash raises more questions than answers



yes, I sure you can shoot it down with your mouth ...


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## bigest

F-15 fighter seems never be shooted down.


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## Viet

Japan must increase the current defence spending as soon as possible. Every percentage point means $60bn. To be on par with China, Mr Abe needs to add 1.5 point at least.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Japan must increase the current defence spending as soon as possible. Every percentage point means $60bn. To be on par with China, Mr Abe needs to add 1.5 point at least.


I agree that Japan must increase the current defence spending as soon as possible, but for now, I think they still hold enough cards to play. Sometime, number and military power are not only way to solve problems.


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## walle

If Japan increase their defence spending so will China, and it legitimises the increase. 

Geopolitics 101, both countries don't lack the money.


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## Viet

Japan should double the military personnel as well, to 500,000.

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## Minjitta

octopusonhead said:


> It's time for us to take Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto out to the woods and turn him into our sex slave and lets see how necessary he thinks it is after were done with his booty.


it's ok you can have him all to yourself, and your gays partners. LOL!!


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## hurt

Viet said:


> Japan should double the military personnel as well, to 500,000.



Where are those 250000?


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Japan should double the military personnel as well, to 500,000.



I think they do not need that number, bro, it's too much in peace time ...


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## Viet

hurt said:


> Where are those 250000?


two of 250,000






Japan navy

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## Viet

Soryu said:


> I think they do not need that number, bro, it's too much in peace time ...


Well, Vietnam has more than 400,000 military personnel with a population of 90 millions, while Japan has only 250,000 with a population of over 128 millions.

Japan should be capable to take on China alone in case the U.S. denies support or withdraws combat troops from Japan one day. I think Mr Abe wants this. Japan has money and resources, they can do without problems.


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## hurt

Viet said:


> two of 250,000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan navy



they are actress


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## Genesis

hurt said:


> they are actress



Damn, I was this close to signing up with the Chinese marines. So close.....


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Well, Vietnam has more than 400,000 military personnel with a population of 90 millions, while Japan has only 250,000 with a population of over 128 millions.
> 
> Japan should be capable to take on China alone in case the U.S. denies support or withdraws combat troops from Japan one day. I think Mr Abe wants this. Japan has money and resources, they can do without problems.


Vietnam's case is difference with Japan, it's necessary for us maintain that number and military conscription service (I think you know what I mean). JSDF need power from Air and Sea more than ground, they also have reservers number for general mobilization.
I think Vietnam will also transform to all professional military service and reduce number, too.


Viet said:


> two of 250,000
> Japan navy


They're model, really.


Genesis said:


> Damn, I was this close to signing up with the Chinese marines. So close.....


What did you mean!? want the girls or something?


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## hurt

Soryu said:


> Vietnam's case is difference with Japan, it's necessary for us maintain that number and military conscription service (I think you know what I mean). JSDF need power from Air and Sea more than ground, they also have reservers number for general mobilization.
> I think Vietnam will also transform to all professional military service and reduce number, too.
> 
> They're model, really.



Yes,Poor Vietnam


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## Soryu

hurt said:


> Yes,Poor Vietnam



I really don't understand what this idiot saying!???


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## hurt

Soryu said:


> I really don't understand what this idiot saying!???



Military modernization,idiot


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## Soryu

hurt said:


> Military modernization,idiot



So you're really hopeless idiot, your troll post was so boring that even I didn't noticed ... tsk tsk tsk ...


----------



## Genesis

Soryu said:


> Vietnam's case is difference with Japan, it's necessary for us maintain that number and military conscription service (I think you know what I mean). JSDF need power from Air and Sea more than ground, they also have reservers number for general mobilization.
> I think Vietnam will also transform to all professional military service and reduce number, too.
> 
> They're model, really.
> 
> What did you mean!? want the girls or something?



First it's a joke, and if you don't get it it's fine.

Second, you can't do a Japan. For one thing you don't got the economic might of the Japanese and the technological know how of the Japanese. 

Vietnam will reduce numbers eventually, but only when it has reliable allies capable of fighting with you, as one of the reasons for small Japanese force is the Americans.

IF you do it too soon, you will be vulnerable with no weapons advantage or even parity, and no numbers either.


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## skoutyuan

1111111111111111111111


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## skoutyuan

Methu_Xie said:


> fool Vietnam &#29492;&#23376;&#20204; are always looking forward to be a slave of power



The perfect expression


----------



## beijingwalker

*Exclusive: China in $5 billion drive to develop disputed East China Sea gas*

By Chen Aizhu

BEIJING | Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:13am EDT


> (Reuters) - Chinese state-run oil companies hope to develop seven new gas fields in the East China Sea, possibly siphoning gas from the seabed beneath waters claimed by Japan, a move that could further inflame tensions with Tokyo over the disputed area.
> 
> Beijing had slowed exploration in the energy-rich East China Sea, one of Asia's biggest security risks due to competing territorial claims, but is now rapidly expanding its hunt for gas, a cheaper and cleaner energy to coal and oil imports.
> 
> State-run Chinese oil and gas firm CNOOC Ltd will soon submit for state approval a plan to develop Huangyan phase II and Pingbei, totaling seven new fields, two industry officials with direct knowledge of the projects told Reuters.
> 
> The approval would bring the total number of fields in what is called the Huangyan project to nine.
> 
> China is already working on Huangyan I which has two fields approved. The Huangyan project is expected to cost more than 30 billion yuan ($4.9 billion), including 11 production platforms now under construction at Chinese shipyards.
> 
> If approved, the seven new gas fields would not see a big jump in China's total gas output, supplying only a fraction of last year's 106 billion cubic meters (bcm) and dwarfed by operations in the disputed South China Sea and Bohai Bay off north China. Chinese geologists said gas deposits in the East China Sea region were much smaller and more scattered.
> 
> The greater issue is the political risk if Beijing approves the new gas fields. Tensions over the East China Sea have escalated this year, with Beijing and Tokyo scrambling fighter jets and ordering patrol ships to shadow each other, raising the fear that a miscalculation could lead to a broader clash.
> 
> "It's a sign of impatience on the side of the Chinese, stemming from a lack of movement on the Japanese side on the gas fields issue," said Koichi Nakano, associate professor of political science at Sophia University in Tokyo.
> 
> China and Japan in 2008 agreed to jointly develop hydrocarbons in the area, but Tokyo wishes to settle the issue of maritime boundaries before developing the gas fields.
> 
> "The question is what will be Japan's response and whether they would be able to talk China out of a unilateral move," said Nakano. "But escalation of tensions leading to a war? I don't think so. The Americans will be watching this situation with grave concern and may play a role of a mediator here."
> 
> A spokesman for Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said: "Our understanding is that Japan and China should continue to have dialogue on the issue of joint exploitation of this area, so any unilateral action should not be accepted".
> 
> Even if the National Development Reform Commission gives approval for the new gas fields, the pace of the development could be determined by China's Foreign Ministry which requests oil companies to seek its approval before every drilling. Such permission may be influenced by tensions with Japan at the time.
> 
> MAJOR EAST CHINA SEA EXPANSION
> 
> China and Japan disagree on where the maritime boundary between them lies in the East China Sea. Beijing says its activities are in the Chinese territories, while Tokyo is worried the Chinese drilling near the disputed median line would tap into geological structures in its waters.
> 
> Japan lodged a protest early this month after detecting well construction works at Huangyan I about 26 kms (16 miles) west of the disputed median line. China's foreign ministry rejected the protest as a baseless, saying Beijing had the right to drill in its sovereign waters.
> 
> U.S. Energy Information Administration estimated in 2012 that the East China Sea has between 1 and 2 trillion cubic feet (28-57 bcm) of proven and probable natural gas reserves, a modest gauge versus estimates by Chinese sources at up to 250 tcf in undiscovered gas resource.
> 
> If approved, the new gas fields would supply China's manufacturing hub of Zhejiang province, about 400 km (249 miles) away on the east coast, with production slated to start in the fourth quarter of 2015, said the officials.
> 
> The fields would have a combined annual production capacity of nearly 4 bcm, up from the region's current output of less than 1 bcm, and would account for about 2 percent of China's estimated gas output by the end of 2016.
> 
> CNOOC and partner Sinopec Corp are already developing Huangyan I, which was officially approved by the National Development & Reform Commission in June 2012 and is due to start producing gas in September next year. Also on the planning board is Pingbei II, expected to come on line in 2016.
> 
> CNOOC media officials declined to comment on the new developments and industry sources quoted for the story declined to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the topic.
> 
> CHINA FAST-TRACKING HUNT FOR GAS
> 
> China, the world's top energy user, is on a fast track to boost the use of natural gas, with demand for gas forecast to grow more than four fold by 2030 from the 147 bcm last year. China is the world's fourth biggest gas consumer.
> 
> China first started pumping gas in early 2006 from the Chunxiao field, part of the massive Xihu trough, but territorial disputes have hindered an industry keen to explore and develop the region, Chinese industry experts said.
> 
> "China has made compromise, having slowed down the works quite a few years," said a state oil official, "The cards are in the hands of Chinese, as companies are capable of developing (this area) after all the explorations done over the years."
> 
> China's plan to expand East China Sea operations comes after a near six-year lull in investment in the area, since the 2008 agreement to jointly develop hydrocarbons in the area.
> 
> "Since 2008 when the two nations reached a consensus for joint development, Japan has barely made any sincere diplomatic moves towards that direction...It seems that Japan wants to settle the boundaries first before moving to cooperations, which is totally unrealistic," said Liu Junhong, research fellow at China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations.
> 
> Under the proposed expansion plan, Huangyan II, which is adjacent to the disputed maritime border, would consist of two gas fields. Huangyan I has two fields.
> 
> Pingbei, an uncontested area located in the western side of the Xihu trough, would have three fields under phase I and another two under phase II.
> 
> (Additional reporting by Linda SiegAntoni Slodkowski and Yuka Obayashi in Tokyo; Editing by Michael Perry)

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## Viet

Abe rallies Ishigaki coast guard members over Senkaku Islands


THE ASAHI SHIMBUN
July 17, 2013







In a move aimed at sending a warning to China over the Senkaku Islands, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, as part of a stump tour for his Liberal Democratic Party, traveled to Okinawa Prefecture to meet with Japan Coast Guard members on Ishigakijima island.

The uninhabited islands in the East China Sea are under the jurisdiction of Ishigaki, a city in Okinawa Prefecture, but are also claimed by China.

Abe&#8217;s visit on July 17 was to encourage members of the Japan Coast Guard 11th Regional Headquarters' Ishigaki office, which is responsible for patrolling the waters around the Senkaku Islands.

Talking to some 40 members of the coast guard office, the prime minister said: "There have been provocative acts to Japan's territorial land, sea and airspace. With frequent approaches and the wandering of Chinese government vessels in surrounding waters, the security situation has become increasingly severe. I am determined to take the lead in protecting our territories."

In a speech in Ishigaki, Abe later said, "(The Senkaku Islands) are an integral part of Japan in terms of history and international laws. We have no intention of making a concession."

The prime minister had been enthusiastic about visiting Ishigaki, according to a source close to Abe who quoted him as saying, "I want to visit Ishigaki and encourage Japan Coast Guard members."

According to Ishigaki city officials, Abe's visit is the first to the city by an incumbent prime minister since the 1972 reversion of Okinawa to Japan.








"The Japanese prime minister visiting Ishigakijima island and encouraging coast guard members would send a message to China," a senior official at the Foreign Ministry said before Abe's visit.

The act could show that Japan's stance on the Senkaku Islands will not change after the Upper House election on July 21. If the LDP and its coalition partner, New Komeito, capture a strong majority in the Upper House, there will not likely be a national election over the next three years.

A close aide to Abe said he feels strongly that "If China understands that the Abe administration will be in power for another three years, it will have to take a long-term approach toward Japan."

Another purpose of Abe's visit to Okinawa is to clearly show the administration's stance in supporting a plan to build a replacement for U.S. Marine Corps Air Station Futenma within Okinawa Prefecture, in the Henoko district in Nago.

Even though Abe did not mention Henoko in his speeches, his determination to relocate the U.S. base inside the prefecture was apparent.

"The prime minister's visit to Okinawa means the government will steadily proceed in accordance with a deal with the United States," a senior official of the administration said.

In the relocation issue, the local candidate running on the party ticket and the LDP's prefectural chapter are calling for Futenma to be replaced by another base outside the prefecture.

However, the administration believes the visit to Okinawa by the prime minister, whose party stipulated "relocation to Henoko" in its campaign promise, would make it a fait accompli.

The administration calculates that an LDP win in closely contested Okinawa, which has only one seat up for grabs on July 21, would influence Governor Hirokazu Nakaima, who is expected to make a decision on the reclamation of Henoko by the end of the year.

"Futenma is no longer an issue," said a source close to the prime minister. "Opposition parties opposed to the relocation of Futenma within the prefecture have failed to present alternative plans. The prime minister thinks the same way."

The prime minister also visited Miyakojima island, where an Air Self-Defense Force subbase is located, on the afternoon of July 17.

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## Tanja

Chinese ships linger over a day near disputed isles

*Four Chinese ships spent more than 24 hours in what Japan sees as its territorial waters, prompting a Japanese protest to China on Thursday at a time when Japan has been signaling its desire for a summit.*








> Relations between the China and Japan have been strained for months, largely because of a dispute over a group of islands in the East China Sea know as Senkaku isles in Japan and Diaoyu islands in China.
> 
> Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is interested in improving the 2 countries relations and has called for dialogue with China, although he has rejected any conditions on talks.
> 
> Chinese ships have previously been in waters near the uninhabited East China Sea islands that are controlled by Japan but claimed by both countries, but they have usually left after several hours. However this time the 4 ships have spent over a day in the complicated area causing the Japan's chief cabinet secretary, Yoshihide Suga stated that " extremely regrettable and totally unacceptable behaviour".
> 
> He said Japan had summoned an envoy from the Chinese embassy early on Thursday to protest "strongly" and demand the ships immediately leave.
> 
> China's Foreign Ministry did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
> 
> However, the country's State Oceanic Administration said in a statement posted on Wednesday that four coastguard ships were conducting a patrol around the islands.
> 
> The ships had spotted Japanese ships "infringing China's sovereignty" and told them to leave, the Chinese agency said.
> 
> For months, aircraft and ships from both countries have played a cat-and-mouse game near the islands, known as the Senkaku in Japan and the Diaoyu in China, ratcheting up tension.
> 
> Japan's Vice Foreign Minister Akitaka Saiki met the Chinese foreign minister, Wang Yi, last week, though China has denied that talks on a possible summit are taking place.


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## faithfulguy

BEIJING (Reuters) - China sees no reason to conduct talks with Japan over their dispute about ownership of a group of uninhabited islands in the East China Sea, Chinese deputy foreign minister Li Baodong said on Tuesday.

Li said Japan's call for high-level talks was not genuine, but merely grandstanding.

"A meeting between leaders is not simply for the sake of shaking hands and taking pictures, but to resolve problems," said Li, speaking to reporters ahead of President Xi Jinping's attendance at the G20 summit next week.

"If Japan wants to arrange a meeting to resolve problems, they should stop with the empty talk and doing stuff for show."

Relations between the world's second- and third-largest economies have been strained for months, largely because of the spat over the islands, known as the Senkaku in Japan and the Diaoyu in China.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is keen to improve relations and has called for high-level dialogue with China, although he has rejected any conditions on talks and China has shown no inclination to even want talks.

Moves by certain Japanese politicians to deny the country's wartime past also do not help, he added.

"Under these conditions, how can we organize the kind of leaders summit that Japan wants?" Li said.

China reacted with fury earlier this month after Japan's Abe sent an offering to a shrine for war dead, which also honors war criminals, while cabinet members visited it in person.

China suffered under Japanese rule, with parts of the country occupied from the 1930s. Japanese leaders have apologized in the past but many in China doubt the sincerity of the apologies, partly because of contradictory remarks by politicians.

"What Japan has to do now is show vision and courage, properly face up to history and take a proper attitude and real actions to get rid of the obstacles which exist for the healthy development of bilateral ties," Li said.


http://news.**********/china-sees-no-basis-talks-japan-over-islands-02170401


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## Enemy

China must not go overboard in any conflict with Japan. Please. 

Japanese civilians and particularly women and children did no wrong to China, Chinese people should understand this.


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## Zero_wing

Well china keep it up


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Enemy said:


> China must not *go overboard in any conflict with Japan*. Please.
> 
> Japanese civilians and particularly women and children did no wrong to China, Chinese people should understand this.



Japan is sitting on the ring of fire, the tectonic plates of ocean is slowly squeezing it and the vocano mountains will have Japan on slow cook...we Chinese don't need to do anything, the nature is already fight for our cause 

SAKURAJIMA VOLCANO ERUPTS IN JAPAN AUGUST 19, 2013 - YouTube

GLOBAL VOLCANISM: Japan&#39;s Mount Sakurajima Produces Explosive Plumes to Altitudes of 12,000 Feet! - YouTube


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## Enemy

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Japan is sitting on the ring of fire, the tectonic plates of ocean is slowly squeezing it and the vocano mountains will have Japan on slow cook...we Chinese don't need to do anything, the nature is already fight for our cause



Don't be so stupid, you can easily absorb them. They are just like you.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Enemy said:


> Don't be so stupid, you can easily absorb them. They are just like you.



I have not hate for them, if fact I admire them for what they have done for their own country, it's just happend that I'm on the opposite side...by the way...since when you become a mongolian ?


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## Enemy

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I have not hate for them, if fact I admire them for what they have done for their own country, it's just happend that I'm on the opposite side...by the way...since when you become a mongolian ?



Just look at the flags, how colorful! I love them!


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Enemy said:


> Just look at the flags, how colorful! I love them!



lol, your loyalty is base on the color, that's epic.

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## Enemy

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> lol, your loyalty is base on the color, that's epic.



I am very loyal to Zahir-ud-din Muhammad Babur


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## Solomon2

faithfulguy said:


> BEIJING (Reuters) - China sees no reason to conduct talks with Japan over their dispute about ownership of a group of uninhabited islands in the East China Sea, Chinese deputy foreign minister Li Baodong said on Tuesday.


Who can be surprised? While the Chinese signed the U.N. Law of Sea Convention, they added a note saying that it means, in effect, whatever the Communist Party says it means, and in 2006 declared that China would not abide by the Convention's dispute resolution procedures: link. 

In effect, China wants all the moral benefits of being a signatory without any of the moral restraints and obligations. IMO, Chinese should become more aware of this. The Chinese Communists control the level of its maritime disputes to flame nationalism as needed to support the Party's control of the country.


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## Enemy

Solomon2 said:


> Who can be surprised? While the Chinese signed the U.N. Law of Sea Convention, they added a note saying that it means, in effect, whatever the Communist Party says it means, and in 2006 declared that China would not abide by the Convention's dispute resolution procedures: link.
> 
> In effect, China wants all the moral benefits of being a signatory without any of the moral restraints and obligations. IMO, Chinese should become more aware of this. The Chinese Communists control the level of its maritime disputes to flame nationalism as needed to support the Party's control of the country.



Japanese have been cornered by the cunning Chinese again. 

I wish the any conflict remains limited to the islands and adjacent seas.


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## Wholegrain

Solomon2 said:


> Who can be surprised? While the Chinese signed the U.N. Law of Sea Convention, they added a note saying that it means, in effect, whatever the Communist Party says it means, and in 2006 declared that China would not abide by the Convention's dispute resolution procedures: link.
> 
> In effect, China wants all the moral benefits of being a signatory without any of the moral restraints and obligations. IMO, Chinese should become more aware of this. The Chinese Communists control the level of its maritime disputes to flame nationalism as needed to support the Party's control of the country.



We don't need anyone to inflame nationalism when racists like Shintaro Ishihara are elected by the Japanese people as their politicians.

somehow provocations from Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam are entirely ignored, the racist Governor of Tokyo Ishihara was the one who started the flare up over the islands by trying to nationalize them, the same Governor who thinks post menopausal women should die, the same Governor who used racial slurs to refer to non Japanese and thinks World War 2 was a friendly military exercise.

The fact that the Philippines arbitraily claimed the Spratly islands out of thin air and lied that it was terra nullius after the Republic of China (Taiwan) occupied, garrisoned and claimed the islands also never features in the western media for some reason.

Vietnam inviting India to drill in disputed EEZs also somehow never is the reason. Only when China does something foreigners have the gall to claim that disputes are being used to "flare nationalism".

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Wholegrain said:


> We don't need anyone to inflame nationalism when racists like Shintaro Ishihara are elected by the Japanese people as their politicians.
> 
> somehow provocations from Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam are entirely ignored, the racist Governor of Tokyo Ishihara was the one who started the flare up over the islands by trying to nationalize them, the same Governor who thinks post menopausal women should die, the same Governor who used racial slurs to refer to non Japanese and thinks World War 2 was a friendly military exercise.
> 
> The fact that the Philippines arbitraily claimed the Spratly islands out of thin air and lied that it was terra nullius after the Republic of China (Taiwan) occupied, garrisoned and claimed the islands also never features in the western media for some reason.
> 
> Vietnam inviting India to drill in disputed EEZs also somehow never is the reason. Only when China does something foreigners have the gall to claim that disputes are being used to "flare nationalism".



We dont need to prove ourself to be the good guys nor the nice guys, when nasty event happens, just deal with it accordingly.


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## Solomon2

Wholegrain said:


> The fact that the Philippines arbitraily claimed the Spratly islands out of thin air and lied that it was terra nullius after the Republic of China (Taiwan) occupied, garrisoned and claimed the islands also never features in the western media for some reason.


If China is so confident as to its claims, why did it abrogate the UNCLOS arbitration and dispute resolution process in favor of armed conflict?


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## Wholegrain

Solomon2 said:


> If China is so confident as to its claims, why did it abrogate the UNCLOS arbitration and dispute resolution process in favor of armed conflict?



The "dispute resolution process" involves a key ally of the Philippines and Japan which is notorious- for allowing its allies to break international law and trample on other countries rights, as long as its own interests are protected.

Japan itself surrendered the Spratly Islands to the Republic of China after world war 2 and it knows this, and even then it supports the Philippines and Vietnam since it doesn't give a damn about legitimacy but only its own interests.

Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

Vietnam Joins the World - Google knygos

Where in the World is the Philippines?

The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia

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## Solomon2

Wholegrain said:


> The "dispute resolution process" involves a key ally of the Philippines and Japan which is notorious- for allowing its allies to break international law and trample on other countries rights, as long as its own interests are protected.


Can you be more specific? If so, why is this an issue that compels China to reject this aspect of the UNCLOS treaty?


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## SenLin

*Japan considers stationing workers on disputed islands*

_China says it will not tolerate 'any provocative acts of escalation' in dispute over uninhabited islands in East China Sea_


China and Japan have exchanged fiery diplomatic rhetoric about a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea, with a Japanese government spokesperson suggesting the country may station workers on the islands, after an unidentified drone nearly entered Japanese airspace.

A territorial dispute over the uninhabited islands, called the Diaoyu by China and the Senkakus by Japan, has strained political and economic ties since last year, when the Japanese government purchased three of the islands from a private owner. This Wednesday will mark the one-year anniversary of the purchase.

On Monday Japan scrambled an unspecified number of fighter jets after an unmanned aerial vehicle flew within 130 miles of the islands. The drone, which did not bear a national flag, circled the islands before flying north-west towards China, according to Japan's defence ministry. It did not enter Japanese airspace.

"Japan will enforce increased security to protect our land, sea, and airspace around the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea," Japan's chief cabinet secretary and top government spokesperson, Yoshihide Suga, told reporters on Tuesday, according to Kyodo News International. He said stationing government workers on the islands was an option.

China's foreign ministry spokesman, Hong Lei, responded to Suga's remarks at a regular news briefing on Tuesday. "The Chinese government has an unshakeable resolve and determination to protect the country's territorial sovereignty and will not tolerate any provocative acts of escalation over China's sovereignty," he said. "If the Japanese side recklessly makes provocative moves it will have to accept the consequences."

China blames Japan for never properly atoning for atrocities committed during the 1930s and 40s, when Japanese forces occupied huge swaths of territory along the country's east coast.

Over the past year, China has sent numerous air and sea vehicles near the disputed islands to conduct what it calls routine patrols. On Tuesday morning the Chinese coastguard sent a seven-ship fleet near the islands, in what the state newswire Xinhua called the country's "59th Diaoyu Islands patrol".

On Monday two Chinese navy frigates passed through Japanese waters near Okinawa. On Sunday two Chinese H-6 bombers skirted Japanese airspace on a flight from the mainland to the Pacific Ocean.

China's maritime watchdog has announced plans to build 11 drone bases along the country's east coast to conduct maritime surveillance missions. Last autumn a senior People's Liberation Army colonel told state media that the drones would be used to monitor the islands.

"Around the Diaoyu Islands, the Japanese authority is able to identify vessels approaching the area very quickly, and this is exactly what we lack," Senior Colonel Du Wenlong told the state-run broadcaster China Radio International.


Japan considers stationing workers on disputed islands | World news | theguardian.com


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## DoTell

The heroic Japanese have never feared warring with the big boys. They did it with Russia, America. And they beat the heck of the sick men of Asia in China. The time is now for another fight. Come on Japs, make your move! 

-- Signed Yamamoto Isoroku, mastermind of the Pearl Harbor Attack from heaven


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## GR!FF!N

It has been one year since the Japanese government purchased the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu islands from the Kurihara family. Despite initial alarm that the dispute would spark an unintended war, both China and Japan have managed the new normal of tension around the islands, without escalation. But the next year will not be without its challenges.

The issue has been complicated in recent weeks with renewed calls within Japan for stationing permanent structures and personnel on the islands, as well as an uptick in paramilitary and military patrols of the area. The introduction of UAVs to the theater and confusion as to whether or not China considers the islands a core interest will further complicate the dispute in the year to come.

The Senkaku purchase now joins a series of anniversaries in September steeped in historical baggage for the two nations: September 18, 1931 is the day on which the Manchurian Incident occurred, while Japan formally surrendered to the Allied Powers on September 2.

In the week leading up to the anniversary China has increased maritime patrols near the islands, flown two bombers between the Okinawa and Miyakojima and conducted an exercise near the islands with a UAV. These actions indicate that China is signaling that it can assert its territorial claims with surveillance and military capabilities, matching Japans plan to increase its level of maritime patrols and defense capability to respond to attacks on remote islands. The uptick in military and paramilitary hardware traversing the island chain also risks the chance for miscommunication and collisions that could spiral out of control. The use of UAVs and the chance that the threshold for engaging them could be lower than manned aircraft also adds a new escalatory risk to the dynamic that will need to be managed.

As China flexes its growing air and maritime capability, Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga has suggested public officials could be stationed on the island. This threat echoes Tokyo's former nationalist governor, Shintaro Ishihara (Japan Restoration Party), who suggested in April 2012 that Tokyo purchase the islands from their private owners and station government workers there in newly constructed facilities. Chinas outrage at Ishiharas plan compelled the then Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda (DPJ) to respond on the one hand to the Chinese reaction, and on the other to the growing popularity of nationalist parties, like the JRP. The solution was the nationalization of the islands though a central government purchase and without a garrison or officials stationed there.

Suga said the renewed idea will be considered from a strategic viewpoint. The lack of clarity on what possible red-line could trigger the decision will complicate Sino-Japanese relations in 2014, but the strategic decisions will undoubtedly also be made with the U.S. in mind, which for its part would rather not have to demonstrate its alliance credibility with Japan or test Chinese maritime resolve in the region. It could be that the U.S., like it did in 1971, is able to persuade Japan not to build or station officials on the island for the sake of foregoing needless increase in tension in the area, as the project would be interpreted by both (Taiwan and China) as raising stakes in [a] quarrel. But ultimately this development will test the ability of Abe and Xi to deal with crisis and maintain the status quo without escalation.

Since the purchase, China and Japan have managed to go a year without serious incident in relation to the territorial dispute, but developments in the last few weeks do not bode well for 2014.


Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands: A Tense Anniversary | Flashpoints | The Diplomat


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## Minjitta

DoTell said:


> The heroic Japanese have never feared warring with the big boys. They did it with Russia, America. And they beat the heck of the sick men of Asia in China. The time is now for another fight. *Come on Japs, make your move! *
> 
> -- Signed Yamamoto Isoroku, mastermind of the Pearl Harbor Attack from heaven


Becareful what you ask for son!!!


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## DoTell

Minjitta said:


> Becareful what you ask for son!!!



You too, fool


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## bolo

DoTell said:


> The heroic Japanese have never feared warring with the big boys. They did it with Russia, America. And they beat the heck of the sick men of Asia in China. The time is now for another fight. Come on Japs, make your move!
> 
> -- Signed Yamamoto Isoroku, mastermind of the Pearl Harbor Attack from heaven



Right, because this Asshole coward Isoroku isn't the one who's putting his *** on the line.


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## MarveL

*Repeat After Me, Class: The Senkaku Islands Belong to Japan*

_Tokyo changes textbooks to emphasize claims to disputed islands _

By Michelle Arrouas
Jan. 29, 2014


Japan is to revise official high school teaching manuals to assert its territorial claims over disputed islands, in a move that has angered China and South Korea, AP reports.

The textbook revisions concern the Senkaku islands in the East China Sea, which are claimed by China as the Diaoyu Islands, and the Takeshima Islands in the Sea of Japan, which are claimed by South Korea, where they are known as the Dokdo Islands.

“Naturally, we must teach our own territory accurately to our children,” Education Minister Hakubun Shimomura said to media.

The foreign ministries of South Korea and China issued strong condemnations.

In South Korea, the ministry’s spokesman Cha Tai-young said that Japan “must not teach false history to the young generation and plant enmity and seeds of conflict with its neighbors,” while a spokeswoman in the Chinese Foreign Ministry urged Japan to “respect historical facts” and “stop provocations.”

The revision of the teaching material is the latest addition to a long list of Japanese history textbook controversies. Most have been over the depictions of the actions of the Empire of Japan during the first half of the last century, with both China and South Korea claiming that Japan has whitewashed its World War II legacy and distorted the past. Textbook accounts of the Rape of Nanjing in 1937 — when Japanese soldiers killed several hundred thousand Chinese during a six-week bloodbath — have caused particular anomosity China and Japan.

Japan Revises Textbooks to Boost Island Claims | TIME.com

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## shuttler

Solomon2 said:


> If China is so confident as to its claims, why did it abrogate the UNCLOS arbitration and dispute resolution process in favor of armed conflict?



when you are the owner of house do you go to court to fight for the ownership claim if a thief has lodged a legal complaint against your ownership?

because unclos arbitration court may compose of some asshole judges who may defy the facts for compliance with their political agenda

case in point during the Tokyo War Crime Tribunal, there was an indian asshole judge Radhabinod Pal who is the shame of all human races by doing this:



> * Justice Radha Binod Pal (27 January 1886 – 10 January 1967) was an indian jurist. He was the indian member appointed to the International Military Tribunal for the Far East's trials of Japanese war crimes committed during the second World War. *
> 
> *Among all the judges of the tribunal, he was the only one who submitted a judgment which insisted all defendants were not guilty. The Yasukuni Shrine and the Kyoto Ryozen Gokoku Shrine has monuments specially dedicated to Justice Pal.*
> 
> *Radhabinod Pal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


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## Solomon2

shuttler said:


> when you are the owner of house do you go to court to fight for the ownership claim if a thief has lodged a legal complaint against your ownership?


Circular argument.



> because unclos arbitration court may compose of some asshole judges who may defy the facts for compliance with their political agenda


Because that's exactly what China does and you're projecting such behavior onto others?


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## bolo

Solomon2 said:


> Circular argument.
> 
> Because that's exactly what China does and you're projecting such behavior onto others?


 *yawn* Your posts are getting tiresome. go back defending your beloved Jews.


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## shuttler

Solomon2 said:


> Circular argument.
> 
> Because that's exactly what China does and you're projecting such behavior onto others?



invalid reply!

we are just claiming what belong to us
indians should not meddle into other people's affair when you have more than enough of your own


China protests Japan's textbook revision - Xinhua | English.news.cn
English.news.cn 2014-01-29 11:09:47

BEIJING, Jan. 29 (Xinhuanet) -- China has condemned a move by Japan to amend school history books, and lodged a formal complaint. The changes will ensure that the disputed Diaoyu Islands are described as Japanese territory. China's Foreign Ministry has called the move "provocative" and reaffirmed China's claim over the islands.


The revisions to school teaching manuals have been announced by Japan's Education Ministry. Many of the changes cover disputes with China.

Japan's Kyodo News says the new manuals will refer to the Diaoyu Islands as "Japan's integral territories".

China has lodged a stern protest, and urged Japan to stop provocative actions and respect historical realities.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said: "I want to emphasize that the Diaoyu Islands and its affiliated islets are an inherent part of China's territory. No matter how hard Japan promotes its stance, the fact that the Diaoyu Islands are an inherent part of China cannot be changed.



"Once again, China urges Japan to respect historical facts, stop provocations, and educate its younger generation with correct historic values. And we hope Japan will make concrete efforts to improve relations with its neighboring countries."

The revisions will affect the teaching of history and geography in junior and senior high schools.

The disputed islands have long been a thorn in diplomatic relations between Japan and its neighbors. But tensions rose significantly in 2012, after the Japanese government bought three of the islands from their alleged private Japanese owner.

The Diaoyu Islands are an uninhabited island chain in the East China Sea. China says they were invaded and occupied by Japan during World War II.

The Chinese government has frequently cited documents signed at the end of the war, that say the islands should be returned to China.

(Source: CNTV.cn)

*Other than another nonsense created by the japanese on our Diaoyu Islands, the japs has done their bit over claims on S Korean islands and the Koreans also strongly protested:*

Koreans protest Japanese move on disputed islets - Channel NewsAsia

By Lim Yun Suk 
29 Jan 2014 20:28

The announcement by Japan's education ministry stating that its teaching materials for middle and high school students would claim disputed islets, called Dokdo by South Korea and Takeshima in Japan, as part of Japanese territory angered the Koreans.

SEOUL: Dozens of people from various groups rallied outside the Japanese embassy in central Seoul on Wednesday, demanding Japan face up to the truth about its past.

Many Koreans are still bitter about Japan's harsh colonial rule of Korea for 35 years from 1910.

And the announcement by Japan's education ministry stating that its teaching materials for middle and high school students would claim disputed islets, called Dokdo by South Korea and Takeshima in Japan, as part of Japanese territory angered the Koreans further.

The South Korean government has condemned Japan's move and demanded the Japanese ministry withdraw the revised teachers' manuals.

Seoul also called in the Japanese ambassador and warned of "reciprocal countermeasures" if the changes are not withdrawn immediately.

But South Korea has not stated what the countermeasures would be.

Relations between the two countries have been at one of their worst levels in recent years.

The leaders of South Korea and Japan have not yet met, although both of them have been in office for about a year, mainly due to Japan's stance on its historical recognition issues.

But some of South Korea's actions have also raised diplomatic tensions in the past.

In one instance, in 2012, former president Lee Myung-bak became the first head of state to fly to the Dokdo islands, angering Japan.

The islands are small but they lie in fishing grounds believed to contain large gas deposits.

A Korean couple live on the island where South Korea has stationed a small coastguard since 1954.

- CNA/ir


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## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> when you are the owner of house do you go to court to fight for the ownership claim if a thief has lodged a legal complaint against your ownership?
> 
> because unclos arbitration court may compose of some asshole judges who may defy the facts for compliance with their political agenda
> 
> case in point during the Tokyo War Crime Tribunal, there was an indian asshole judge Radhabinod Pal who is the shame of all human races by doing this:



Something done years ago and have been vindicated is past and done we have move on and yet you people are still b^tiching about this? seriously so would killing all the Japanese can bring all those dead victims of the war back again? tell me? no tel us? would it? or your egos just can't take it that small country has shame your kind but instead of learning from the whole thing your country and the rest of the chinese imps are just making foolish attempts to even the source basically making the same the mistakes the Japanese did 70 years ago?


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## shuttler

Zero_wing said:


> Something done years ago and have been vindicated is past and done we have move on and yet you people are still b^tiching about this? seriously so would killing all the Japanese can bring all those dead victims of the war back again? tell me? no tel us? would it? or your egos just can't take it that small country has shame your kind but instead of learning from the whole thing your country and the rest of the chinese imps are just making foolish attempts to even the source basically making the same the mistakes the Japanese did 70 years ago?



you are pathetic
you and indians can move just on your own but the comfort women in the Phililippines and war victims aint moving on






credit: Catholic News Asia | Church, Features, Opinion, Blogs, Gospel, Dioceses - ucanews.com

neither are these women of the Indonesians or Koreans and elsewhere in the world:





credit: BULKKA™

and plenty more here:





credit: blog.angryasianman.com






credit: torontopubliclibrary.typepad.com





credit: 龙腾网






Credit: NPR : National Public Radio : News & Analysis, World, US, Music & Arts : NPR

nor do we forget this* ASSHOLE - the BIG DISGRACE to Human Race:




*
credit:Radhabinod Pal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> he was the indian member appointed to the International Military Tribunal for the Far East's trials of japanese war crimescommitted during the second World War. Among all the judges of the tribunal, he was the only one who submitted a judgment which insisted all defendants were not guilty. The yasukuni shrine and the kyokoto ryozen gokoku shrine has monuments specially dedicated to pal.

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## Martian2

*Diaoyu Islands on China’s Map Since Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) | NSNBC International*

Link to NSNBC International article on Diayou Islands: The Diaoyu Islands Appeared on China’s Map Since Ming Dynasty (1368-1644): Chinese Govt Has Never Recognized the San Francisco Treaty | NSNBC International

----------

My comment on Bloomberg News.

Abe, Aquino Views on China Unhelpful, Says U.S. General Carlisle | Bloomberg News






------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My comment on The Telegraph.

Another troll bites the dust on The Telegraph.

A second troll also posted an unkind comment about me on Aljazeera today. He bit the dust too.

The moderators will not tolerate anyone trolling me.

----------

China and Russia help global defence spending rise for first time in five years | The Telegraph

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## Viet

Martian2 said:


> *Diaoyu Islands on China’s Map Since Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) | NSNBC International*
> 
> Link to NSNBC International article on Diayou Islands: The Diaoyu Islands Appeared on China’s Map Since Ming Dynasty (1368-1644): Chinese Govt Has Never Recognized the San Francisco Treaty | NSNBC International
> 
> ----------
> 
> My comment on Bloomberg News.
> 
> Abe, Aquino Views on China Unhelpful, Says U.S. General Carlisle | Bloomberg News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> My comment on The Telegraph.
> 
> Another troll bites the dust on The Telegraph.
> 
> A second troll also posted an unkind comment about me on Aljazeera today. He bit the dust too.
> 
> The moderators will not tolerate anyone trolling me.
> 
> ----------
> 
> China and Russia help global defence spending rise for first time in five years | The Telegraph


he welcome back man...where have you been all the time?
you play the victim role perfect. congrat!


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## Martian2

Viet said:


> he welcome back man...where have you been all the time?
> you play the victim role perfect. congrat!




I've been busy in the mainstream media beating the pants off of your side (e.g. the Vietnamese). See item #3 below for an example.

I started three years ago. However, the East China Sea and South China Sea have heated up in the past year.

----------

*U.S. General Tells Japan, Philippines to Cool China Rhetoric (2)* | BusinessWeek






----------

My comment on CNN from February 6, 2014.

China media brands Philippine president 'ignorant and amateurish' after Hitler gibe | CNN

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## Viet

Martian2 said:


> I've been busy in the mainstream media beating the pants off of your side (e.g. the Vietnamese). See item #3 below for an example.
> 
> I started three years ago. However, the East China Sea and South China Sea have heated up in the past year.
> 
> ----------
> 
> *U.S. General Tells Japan, Philippines to Cool China Rhetoric (2)* | BusinessWeek
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> My comment on CNN from February 6, 2014.
> 
> China media brands Philippine president 'ignorant and amateurish' after Hitler gibe | CNN


you are a loser!

show me evidence when the Han discovered the South China Sea 2,000 years ago?
even you have any, pls show it to the world as you know the Philippines sures you at the international court.

by the way, genetic and scientic findings show the first Viets came from indoaustralian islands and settled down in the red river delta thousands of years. They surely crossed the South China Sea. Over the time this race mixed with local Chinese and Mongols to become what we call the Viet today. The Viet people were the first who cultivated wet rice 3,000 years ago.

wake up!


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## Martian2

Here are my battle statistics in the mainstream media wars. I think the Chinese side is winning. After reading hundreds of my comments filled with facts, most of the anti-Chinese western posters are gone.






----------

I have four recent posts on Polynesians at CNN.

"China Lee • 3 days ago

No one is disputing that Polynesians made it onto the humongous Philippine land mass (e.g. 300,000 square kilometers).

The point is that Polynesians never made it onto the tiny Nansha/Spratly Islands, which total 25 square kilometers in the ocean."

----------

"China Lee • 3 days ago

The archaeological evidence shows no ocean-faring ships by Austronesian people. Not a single galleon-class shipwreck has been found.

In contrast, hundreds of shipwrecked Chinese galleon ships have been found throughout the South China Sea."

----------

"China Lee • 3 days ago

The South China Sea has been thoroughly searched for 60 years. How do you think they found those 200 sunken Chinese galleons?
-----
'BBC News | Asia-Pacific | Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions
By David Willis in the South China Sea
Thursday, April 29, 1999 Published at 20:40 GMT 21:40 UK

Divers working for the French oil company Elf, stumbled across the wreck of a 15th Century Chinese galleon containing a ... China watcher Dr Lee Lai To believes this latest find of sunken treasure may bring the competing claims to a head.'"

----------

"China Lee • 3 days ago

Polynesians reached the Philippines. They never reached the tiny South China Sea islands.

Polynesians can rightfully can ownership of the Philippines. They have no right to claim any ownership of the South China Sea islands."

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## eazzy

Good job Martian2 !

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## shuttler

CCTV channel 1 broadcast an interview with the author of the book "* Lest We Forget *" today
Fred Seiker, British, aged 98, is the very few surviving POWs who suffered immensely during WW2 when they was forced to live in a hell-like environment being forced and gruesomely tortured by the imperial japanese army to build roads and one prominent structure standing today at the Thai-Myanmar border, known as the *Bridge of River Kwai. *The book is a recollection of tribulations that he and his friends as POWs have gone through during the period of subjugation by the brutal japanese imperial army:
*






*
Fred Seiker and young F.S (right)
Credit: beveregallery.com (left) war-experience.org





credit: beveregallery.com








credit: Lest We Forget: Life as a Japanese Prisoner of War: Amazon.co.uk: Fred Seiker: Books (left)
Lest We Forget: Life as a Japanese P.O.W.: Fred Seiker: 9780952698708: Amazon.com: Books (right)

Some pix from the internet on POWs who suffered under the japanese imperial army during the japanese invasions in Asia





credit: Battle of Bataan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





credit: WWII Japanese POW Camp Fukuoka 17





credit: west-point.org





credit: maritimequest.com





credit: histclo.com

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## BoQ77

Because the content of the thread refer Diaoyu/Senkaku ... please revise the thread name to include Senkaku in it. 
Anyway, the islands still under controlled by Japan.


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## TheTruth

"Playing the victim", what a joke, Chinese people everywhere have moved on faster than any people in history despite endless atrocities committed against them by all sorts of subhuman vermin. You say move on? To a nation that's growing so much faster than yours? Please, pull your head out of your asses and stop whining about China bullying you, or the Philippines will just take your islands. They'd love to spread Catholicism by force your country as well. 

And now you're talking about randomly drifting from some islands to Vietnam? I remember that was back when Champa wasn't part of your empire.

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## BoQ77

TheTruth said:


> "Playing the victim", what a joke, Chinese people everywhere have moved on faster than any people in history despite endless atrocities committed against them by all sorts of subhuman vermin. You say move on? To a nation that's growing so much faster than yours? Please, pull your head out of your asses and stop whining about China bullying you, or the Philippines will just take your islands. They'd love to spread Catholicism by force your country as well.
> 
> And now you're talking about randomly drifting from some islands to Vietnam? I remember that was back when Champa wasn't part of your empire.



What's Champa ? Do you know anyone from Champa ? I didn't hear anything about Champa for recent 300 years


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## TheTruth

How about a more recent example - Vietnam repeatedly invading Cambodia and screwing around in Thailand and Laos? Ever wonder why none of those countries wants to support Vietnamese claims to the SCS? I have nothing against Viets but you have no reason to play victim whatsoever.


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## EastSea

TheTruth said:


> How about a more recent example - Vietnam repeatedly invading Cambodia and screwing around in Thailand and Laos? Ever wonder why none of those countries wants to support Vietnamese claims to the SCS? I have nothing against Viets but you have no reason to play victim whatsoever.



Vietnam invaded to Cambodia to protect Khmer kingdom from Thai expansions in the past, recently to wipe away Chinese Mestizo Khmer Rouge, lap dog of China to protect Khmer people from massacres.

Islands controlled officially by Vietnamese hundred years ago, with out troubles with China.

China occupied our Islands illegally with force 1956, 1974, 1988 recently. China can not swallow our Islands

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## EastSea

Martian2 said:


> Here are my battle statistics in the mainstream media wars. I think the Chinese side is winning. After reading hundreds of my comments filled with facts, most of the anti-Chinese western posters are gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> I have four recent posts on Polynesians at CNN.
> 
> "China Lee • 3 days ago
> 
> No one is disputing that Polynesians made it onto the humongous Philippine land mass (e.g. 300,000 square kilometers).
> 
> The point is that Polynesians never made it onto the tiny Nansha/Spratly Islands, which total 25 square kilometers in the ocean."
> 
> ----------
> 
> "China Lee • 3 days ago
> 
> The archaeological evidence shows no ocean-faring ships by Austronesian people. Not a single galleon-class shipwreck has been found.
> 
> In contrast, hundreds of shipwrecked Chinese galleon ships have been found throughout the South China Sea."
> 
> ----------
> 
> "China Lee • 3 days ago
> 
> The South China Sea has been thoroughly searched for 60 years. How do you think they found those 200 sunken Chinese galleons?
> -----
> 'BBC News | Asia-Pacific | Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions
> By David Willis in the South China Sea
> Thursday, April 29, 1999 Published at 20:40 GMT 21:40 UK
> 
> Divers working for the French oil company Elf, stumbled across the wreck of a 15th Century Chinese galleon containing a ... China watcher Dr Lee Lai To believes this latest find of sunken treasure may bring the competing claims to a head.'"
> 
> ----------
> 
> "China Lee • 3 days ago
> 
> Polynesians reached the Philippines. They never reached the tiny South China Sea islands.
> 
> Polynesians can rightfully can ownership of the Philippines. They have no right to claim any ownership of the South China Sea islands."



Taiwan belong to Aborigines from 2,000 years who shared blood line with Philippines. Taiwan belong Philippine people.


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## Martian2

My comment on The Economist.

Japan's relations with Russia - The end of the affair | The Economist







----------

My comment on The Fiscal Times

Russia’s Move in Crimea Sends China a Dangerous Message | The Fiscal Times

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## gpit

*Hollywood Documentary Brings Diaoyu Islands Truth to New Audience*

Hollywood writer and director Chris D. Nebe screened a new documentary about the Diaoyu Islands at the REAL D Theater on Tuesday, saying he hopes to show Americans the truth about the territory.


“Diaoyu Islands, The Truth” is produced by Monarex Hollywood Corporation and is one of twelve documentaries in Nebe’s “Mysterious China” series introducing Chinese history, culture and rapid development to the world.

The debut attracted nearly 100 viewers, who learned from the 40-minute film that the Diaoyu Islands have been Chinese territory since ancient times, and that Imperial Japan annexed the Diaoyu Islands from China in 1895 after the First Sino-Japanese War.

The short feature holds the view that “the real Diaoyu Islands conflict goes from the so-called administrative rights of the United States. After the Second World War, instead of returning the islands to China, the United States claimed ‘administrative rights.’ In 1971, America gave the islands back to Japan, ignoring China’s long-standing claim.”

In the last part of the film, Nebe asserts that “America can quell the tension by encouraging his Japanese ally to return the Diaoyu Islands to China and apologize to Chinese people for the war crimes of Imperial Japan.”

“My view point is that… the truth about Diaoyu Islands issues are completely wrong told by Western media. I hope the movie will change it. We are pushing to help Americans know the truth of Diaoyu Islands,” Nebe said.

Japan should do the right thing and give the islands back to China, while Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe should go to Nanjing to apologize to China for the war crimes of Imperial Japan. These islands should not be a case for disrupting peace and harmony between China and Japan, he added.

Klaus Schmitt came to see the film with his wife. “Very little of my friends know Diaoyu Islands, only if you who are politically active or interested in history, but most people don’t know it,” he said.

He believed that the film gave him a neutral overall view on the issue.

Audience member Lynn Crandall, who works at the University of Southern California, said the documentary encouraged peace. “The film is a strong statement for us to try to find peace, we must find a way to share the world in brotherhood. I believe we should be neutral. I think we are too much on the side of Japan, I think we should work for peace, not for divide.”

Anthony D. Ross, a lawyer who said he did not previously know about the conflict between China and Japan over the Diaoyu Islands, told Xinhua, “It tells a lot that I did not know.”

“Diaoyu Islands, The Truth” will be broadcast on American public television and is also available on the Internet, according to Monarex.


-------------

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## meis

One fine documentary.

"Western countries have always been biasing against China. Japan is an ally with America. Folks in western countries barely know the truth about China, not just the dispute of Diaoyu Island, but also China's history, society, politics, Taiwan and Tibet. You know what medias want you to know. The information is always filtered by media's attitude towards China. I am just glad to see someone is willing to show the truth. Japan refuses to admit and apology for their flagitious war crimes. Japan refuses to admit it brought trauma to several countries by invading them. Let's say what's done is done, China and Korea are willing to let go of the trauma. But Japan still refuses to apologize, and Japanese government recently revised their history text books by teaching their youngster incorrect history. Japanese right-wingists are rising, America should let people see the truth, instead of taking part with Japan."

www.imdb [dot] com/title/tt3231886/?licb=0.4819892426021397


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## Martian2

My comment on The Washington Post.

Chinese signaling in the East China Sea? | The Washington Post


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## BoQ77

*Obama says US-Japan treaty applies to disputed Senkaku Islands ahead of visit*
Published April 23, 2014
Associated Press
Facebook11 Twitter116 Gplus1



President Barack Obama confirmed Wednesday that America's mutual security treaty with Japan applies to the islands at the center of a territorial dispute between China and Japan.

"The policy of the United States is clear," he said in a written response to questions published in Japan's Yomiuri newspaper before his arrival in Tokyo at the start of a four-country Asia tour.

"The Senkaku islands are administered by Japan" and therefore fall under the U.S.-Japan treaty, he wrote. "And we oppose any unilateral attempts to undermine Japan's administration of these islands."

His statement seems aimed at reassuring Japan that the U.S. would come to its defense if China were to seize the islands, known as the Diayou in China. Russia's annexation of Crimea has sparked concern about America's political will to protect Asian allies, notably in Japan and the Philippines.

Obama said the United States is deepening its ties with China, but "our engagement with China does not and will not come at the expense of Japan or any other ally."

He told the Yomiuri that the U.S. will continue to take steps to reduce the impact of its military presence in Okinawa, but added "it's important to remember that the U.S. Marine Corps presence on Okinawa is absolutely critical to our mutual security. It plays a key role in the defense of Japan."

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## somnath

*Tokyo:*Islands at the centre of a row between Tokyo and Beijing are covered by the US-Japan defence alliance, Barack Obama told a newspaper ahead of his arrival in Tokyo.

Mr Obama, on a tour of Asia that will also take in South Korea, the Philippines and Malaysia, is the first sitting US president to explicitly affirm that hostile action against the island chain would spark an American reaction.

"The policy of the United States is clear - the Senkaku Islands are administered by Japan and therefore fall within the scope of Article 5 of the US-Japan Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security," Mr Obama said in a written interview with Japan's_Yomiuri Shimbun_newspaper.

"We oppose any unilateral attempts to undermine Japan's administration of these islands," he said.

Several senior US figures, including former secretary of state Hillary Clinton and Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel, have made similar statements, which Tokyo covets as a way to warn China away from territories it claims as the Diaoyu islands.

Mr Obama's week-long tour of Asia is being dubbed a "rebalancing" eastward of US foreign policy by the White House.

Although China is not on his itinerary, its presence will be felt on every leg at a time of complex regional disputes and questions about US strategy.

On Wednesday, China's state-run Xinhua news agency published a comment piece criticising US policy in the region as "a carefully calculated scheme to cage the rapidly developing Asian giant".

"The United States should reappraise its anachronistic hegemonic alliance system and stop pampering its chums like Japan and the Philippines that have been igniting regional tensions with provocative moves," it said.

The row over ownership of the Senkakus is not new, but has burst to the fore in the past two years, with paramilitary vessels from both sides jostling in nearby waters to assert control.

In November, China declared an air defence identification zone over the East China Sea, including the skies above the islands.

"I've also told (Chinese) President Xi (Jinping) that all our nations have an interest in dealing constructively with maritime issues, including in the East China Sea," Mr Obama told_ Yomiuri Shimbun_.

"Disputes need to be resolved through dialogue and diplomacy, not intimidation and coercion," he said.

Mr Obama will be striving to show Beijing that the US poses no threat and does not intend to contain it.

"We welcome the continuing rise of a China that is stable, prosperous and peaceful and plays a responsible role in global affairs. And our engagement with China does not and will not come at the expense of Japan or any other ally," Mr Obama said.



Read more:Disputed islands part of US-Japan alliance: Obama


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## Pangu

I would expect Abe to give in when Obama meets him to discuss the TPP, after the same old "we support Japan" rhetoric. If not, Obama will face double wammy when he doesn't get what American manufacturers/producers want in penetrating the Japanese market, and pissing off China.

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## BoQ77

It cannot be clearer, Thanks Mr. Obama for your statement


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## Mr Second Back

Whatever, it is not important what Obama said, he could say something good in Japan, meanwhile he could also show goodwill to China. But no one can deny China's power in this area even if China response nothing.

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## shuttler

xudeen said:


> I would expect Abe to give in when Obama meets him to discuss the* TPP*, after the same old "we support Japan" rhetoric. If not, Obama will face double wammy when he doesn't get what American manufacturers/producers want in penetrating the Japanese market, and pissing off China.



that is exacly why obama is giving off foul air which will intoxicate abe to sign tpp!

obama has done nothing during his term and the international image of usa has been on the decline

the 'allies' wont trust him
tpp and japan are his last ditch to save his arse

The next president will have his own agenda on Diaoyu Islands

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## Fukuoka

> Chinese naval commander says misfire may happen if Japan keeps provocations in East China Sea




Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


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## Rechoice

Japan has begun construction work on a military radar station near a string of islands that is at the centre of a territorial dispute with China






BBC News - Japan to build military site near disputed Senkaku islands

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## Wholegrain

Malcolm Fraser warns Australia risks war with China unless US military ties cut back

*Malcolm Fraser warns Australia risks war with China unless US military ties cut back*
April 25, 2014
Mark Kenny



> With US President Barack Obama visiting north Asia (although not China) and confirming the US would back Japan in any conflict over disputed islands in the East China Sea, Mr Fraser has called for a more basic interpretation of the ANZUS treaty, restricting its scope to consultation initially – rather than the assumption of automatic military involvement.
> 
> He has also called for a new debate about Australian-American military-to-military ties, warning that the secretive Pine Gap facility would become a military target as it would likely be pivotal to the US capability to identify and neutralise Chinese nuclear weapons sites.
> 
> Mr Fraser described the American "pivot" into the western Pacific, announced by Mr Obama in the Australian Parliament in 2011, and which relies heavily on Australia in an operational sense, as another strategic error that commits Australia to a wrong-headed US strategy of containment of China.
> 
> "Military encirclement was necessary in relation to the Soviet Union but China is quite a different story," Mr Fraser said.


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## Wholegrain

Fraser says get US forces out of northern Australia and close Pine Gap


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## BoQ77

The Japanese is superior because of this ...






little emperor

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## Soryu

Martian2 said:


> My comment on The Washington Post.
> 
> Chinese signaling in the East China Sea? | The Washington Post


need to swanky here !?


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## 我铛你个铛

Diaoyu Islands, Ryukyu Islands belong to China since ancient times;
Chinese Qing government due to corruption during the incompetence, the Japanese occupation of the Ryukyu Islands (then a subsidiary of China State: Ryukyu country);
After World War II, Japan as a defeated, all need to return all occupied territories, including Taiwan and the Ryukyu Islands, which is also clearly written in the international treaties, the Japanese territory only around four main islands. But when China fell into civil war, does not allow to take into account the Ryukyu Islands, Diaoyu, the then Chinese government (national government) to let the United States to help broker. Later, after the founding of New China, due to the factors between the United States and the new China, as well as system and so hostile to China, in 1971, the Ryukyu Islands and other islands to Japan, then China can not take into account, but never admitted Okinawa, Japan, the Diaoyu Islands owned by all. Now China is gradually stronger, more and more afraid of certain countries, continue to provoke China, to China's intelligence is not low, it will not be easily fooled, so there is the situation today. I want to say, as a Chinese person, saw the motherland became stronger and stronger, no longer being bullied! Long live the friendship between China and Pakistan!


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## BoQ77

Since ancient time China has only small area in Yangtze Delta.

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## 我铛你个铛

BoQ77 said:


> Since ancient time China has only small area in Yangtze Delta.


 ha..


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## steelseries779

BoQ77 said:


> Since ancient time China has only small area in Yangtze Delta.



Vietnamese LOW IQ shines again.

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## Nike

我铛你个铛 said:


> Diaoyu Islands, Ryukyu Islands belong to China since ancient times;
> Chinese Qing government due to corruption during the incompetence, the Japanese occupation of the Ryukyu Islands (then a subsidiary of China State: Ryukyu country);
> After World War II, Japan as a defeated, all need to return all occupied territories, including Taiwan and the Ryukyu Islands, which is also clearly written in the international treaties, the Japanese territory only around four main islands. But when China fell into civil war, does not allow to take into account the Ryukyu Islands, Diaoyu, the then Chinese government (national government) to let the United States to help broker. Later, after the founding of New China, due to the factors between the United States and the new China, as well as system and so hostile to China, in 1971, the Ryukyu Islands and other islands to Japan, then China can not take into account, but never admitted Okinawa, Japan, the Diaoyu Islands owned by all. Now China is gradually stronger, more and more afraid of certain countries, continue to provoke China, to China's intelligence is not low, it will not be easily fooled, so there is the situation today. I want to say, as a Chinese person, saw the motherland became stronger and stronger, no longer being bullied! Long live the friendship between China and Pakistan!



have you take your medicine today? your gibberish doesn't sound right to me

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## 我铛你个铛

madokafc said:


> have you take your medicine today? your gibberish doesn't sound right to me


Illiteracy


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## Aepsilons

Tokyo has reportedly made plans to create new military outposts on remote islands close to disputed territories in an apparent move to bolster Japan’s defense capabilities amid its ongoing territorial rows with China.

Some 350 Ground Self-Defense Forces could be stationed on the three islands near the disputed islands, known as Diaoyu in China and as Senkaku in Japan, Japanese newspaper Yomiuri Shimbun cited unnamed senior Japanese Ministry of Defense officials as saying.

The three uninhabited, disputed islets lie some 2,000 km southwest of Tokyo, and around 200 km north of Taiwan.

According to the report, Tokyo will be establishing three bases close to the strategic location – a base on Amami Oshima Island, Miyako Island (210 km southwest of the disputed islands), and Ishigaki Island (about 170 km south), each staffed by up to 150 soldiers.

Last month, Japan announced it was building a high-tech radar outpost on Yonaguni Island, due to become operational in 2016.

Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said earlier that Japan had already made decisions to develop its military presence in the southwest and that research had been conducted. However, he added that: _“At the moment, however, we have not decided on specific, concrete locations, such as those reported.”_

The current absence of military troops close to the strategic islands has caused some concern to Japan, which believes it is making itself vulnerable in the face of an increasingly domineering Chinese approach.

While there has not yet been much grist of military confrontation, being largely confined to coastguard squabbles, close watchers have stated that some naval ships have been lurking beyond the horizon and suggest that further confrontation may be on the cards. Additionally, China has increased spending on its military in recent years, allegedly to develop a two-tier blue water navy – one capable of operating across the deep waters of open oceans, implicitly the Pacific.

In its territorial dispute with China, Japan was supported by US President Barack Obama last month.

*Reference: The Japan Times*


*Saving Japan and China from a dangerous new conflict*

NEW YORK – Prime Minister Shinzo Abe hoped to herald his economic reform program at Davos last month, Instead, people zeroed in on another of Abe’s comments: likening tensions between China and Japan today to those between the United Kingdom and Germany on the eve of World War I.

Abe wasn’t advocating war between Asia’s two biggest economies. His words, however, exposed a problem in Northeast Asia, one with roots in World War II, not the first: the lack of multilateral institutions to settle disputes matching those created in Western Europe after 1945. Such bodies — including the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and the European Community (later European Union) — have kept the peace in Europe for almost seven decades. In Asia, no such organizations were forged — bringing conflict today, however unintended, within the realm of the possible.

To understand why, one needs to look back at the messy way in which World War II ended in China. In 1945, the postwar settlement planned by the Allies, including the Soviet Union, envisioned the Nationalist China under Chiang Kai-shek as a pillar in Asia. Chiang’s forces had contributed significantly to the war effort against Japan, including the years from 1937 to 1941 before Pearl Harbor, when China fought essentially alone. Its wartime sacrifices, including some 14 million or more deaths and 100 million or so refugees, made it necessary to acknowledge a major role for China in the postwar order.

Within a year of Japan’s surrender, though, China had dissolved into civil war. The exhaustion and corruption of the Nationalist regime ensured its defeat by Mao Zedong’s Communists, who took power in 1949. Meanwhile, Japan had become a Cold War ally of the United States.

Mao’s decision to take up Soviet leader Joseph Stalin’s challenge and assist North Korea in its attempted invasion of the South isolated China even further from the Western world. Caught up in a sterile debate on “who lost China,” the U.S. refused to recognize the People’s Republic. The chance for China to become a power broker in Asia was lost (Mao’s disastrous economic policies were to blame for this, too).

When Japan re-emerged from Allied occupation, it had no partner with whom to consider building a new regional security architecture.

In a remarkable ideological turnaround, there has lately been a partial rehabilitation of Chiang’s image in China, with particular focus on his record of resistance against the Japanese invasion. He took part in the 1943 Cairo Conference, where Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill hinted that after the war, China should reclaim all territories deemed to have been captured by Japanese imperialists.

The topic has great relevance to the current Diaoyu-Senkaku islands dispute. There should be an opportunity here for China to reclaim and use its legacy as the “forgotten ally” of World War II to build bridges with its neighbors. Yet it hasn’t yet managed to do so in a way that those neighbors find persuasive and consistent.

Japan, too, has mishandled opportunities to build a more stable platform for regional relations. Abe has used the initial success of his economic reforms to expand political space for the argument that Japan played a noble, liberating role in Asia before 1945 — an argument that finds few friends in Seoul or Singapore, let alone Beijing.

Refusing to understand why China and other Asian neighbors remain so sensitive about wartime history doesn’t help the Japanese government’s cause at a time when it needs friends: Witness the way that South Korea’s affections have shifted away from Japan toward China in the last year.

Japan and China have both shown they are capable of nuanced diplomacy when it is needed. In 1937, they went to war instead, and the confrontation ultimately led to the destruction of the regimes in both countries. Surely that experience should be incentive enough for them to seek some version of the settlement postwar Asia was always meant to have.

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## 我铛你个铛

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Tokyo has reportedly made plans to create new military outposts on remote islands close to disputed territories in an apparent move to bolster Japan’s defense capabilities amid its ongoing territorial rows with China.
> 
> Some 350 Ground Self-Defense Forces could be stationed on the three islands near the disputed islands, known as Diaoyu in China and as Senkaku in Japan, Japanese newspaper Yomiuri Shimbun cited unnamed senior Japanese Ministry of Defense officials as saying.
> 
> The three uninhabited, disputed islets lie some 2,000 km southwest of Tokyo, and around 200 km north of Taiwan.
> 
> According to the report, Tokyo will be establishing three bases close to the strategic location – a base on Amami Oshima Island, Miyako Island (210 km southwest of the disputed islands), and Ishigaki Island (about 170 km south), each staffed by up to 150 soldiers.
> 
> Last month, Japan announced it was building a high-tech radar outpost on Yonaguni Island, due to become operational in 2016.
> 
> Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said earlier that Japan had already made decisions to develop its military presence in the southwest and that research had been conducted. However, he added that: _“At the moment, however, we have not decided on specific, concrete locations, such as those reported.”_
> 
> The current absence of military troops close to the strategic islands has caused some concern to Japan, which believes it is making itself vulnerable in the face of an increasingly domineering Chinese approach.
> 
> While there has not yet been much grist of military confrontation, being largely confined to coastguard squabbles, close watchers have stated that some naval ships have been lurking beyond the horizon and suggest that further confrontation may be on the cards. Additionally, China has increased spending on its military in recent years, allegedly to develop a two-tier blue water navy – one capable of operating across the deep waters of open oceans, implicitly the Pacific.
> 
> In its territorial dispute with China, Japan was supported by US President Barack Obama last month.
> 
> *Reference: The Japan Times*
> 
> *Saving Japan and China from a dangerous new conflict*
> 
> NEW YORK – Prime Minister Shinzo Abe hoped to herald his economic reform program at Davos last month, Instead, people zeroed in on another of Abe’s comments: likening tensions between China and Japan today to those between the United Kingdom and Germany on the eve of World War I.
> 
> Abe wasn’t advocating war between Asia’s two biggest economies. His words, however, exposed a problem in Northeast Asia, one with roots in World War II, not the first: the lack of multilateral institutions to settle disputes matching those created in Western Europe after 1945. Such bodies — including the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and the European Community (later European Union) — have kept the peace in Europe for almost seven decades. In Asia, no such organizations were forged — bringing conflict today, however unintended, within the realm of the possible.
> 
> To understand why, one needs to look back at the messy way in which World War II ended in China. In 1945, the postwar settlement planned by the Allies, including the Soviet Union, envisioned the Nationalist China under Chiang Kai-shek as a pillar in Asia. Chiang’s forces had contributed significantly to the war effort against Japan, including the years from 1937 to 1941 before Pearl Harbor, when China fought essentially alone. Its wartime sacrifices, including some 14 million or more deaths and 100 million or so refugees, made it necessary to acknowledge a major role for China in the postwar order.
> 
> Within a year of Japan’s surrender, though, China had dissolved into civil war. The exhaustion and corruption of the Nationalist regime ensured its defeat by Mao Zedong’s Communists, who took power in 1949. Meanwhile, Japan had become a Cold War ally of the United States.
> 
> Mao’s decision to take up Soviet leader Joseph Stalin’s challenge and assist North Korea in its attempted invasion of the South isolated China even further from the Western world. Caught up in a sterile debate on “who lost China,” the U.S. refused to recognize the People’s Republic. The chance for China to become a power broker in Asia was lost (Mao’s disastrous economic policies were to blame for this, too).
> 
> When Japan re-emerged from Allied occupation, it had no partner with whom to consider building a new regional security architecture.
> 
> In a remarkable ideological turnaround, there has lately been a partial rehabilitation of Chiang’s image in China, with particular focus on his record of resistance against the Japanese invasion. He took part in the 1943 Cairo Conference, where Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill hinted that after the war, China should reclaim all territories deemed to have been captured by Japanese imperialists.
> 
> The topic has great relevance to the current Diaoyu-Senkaku islands dispute. There should be an opportunity here for China to reclaim and use its legacy as the “forgotten ally” of World War II to build bridges with its neighbors. Yet it hasn’t yet managed to do so in a way that those neighbors find persuasive and consistent.
> 
> Japan, too, has mishandled opportunities to build a more stable platform for regional relations. Abe has used the initial success of his economic reforms to expand political space for the argument that Japan played a noble, liberating role in Asia before 1945 — an argument that finds few friends in Seoul or Singapore, let alone Beijing.
> 
> Refusing to understand why China and other Asian neighbors remain so sensitive about wartime history doesn’t help the Japanese government’s cause at a time when it needs friends: Witness the way that South Korea’s affections have shifted away from Japan toward China in the last year.
> 
> Japan and China have both shown they are capable of nuanced diplomacy when it is needed. In 1937, they went to war instead, and the confrontation ultimately led to the destruction of the regimes in both countries. Surely that experience should be incentive enough for them to seek some version of the settlement postwar Asia was always meant to have.


Copy and paste the hard.


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## Aepsilons

*What is the basic view of the Government of Japan on the Senkaku Islands?*

There is no doubt that the Senkaku Islands are clearly an inherent territory of Japan, in light of historical facts and based upon international law. Indeed, the Senkaku Islands are under the valid control of Japan. There exists no issue of territorial sovereignty to be resolved concerning the Senkaku Islands.


*What are the grounds for Japan's territorial sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands?*


The Senkaku Islands were not included in the territory which Japan renounced under Article 2 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty of 1951 that legally defined the territory of Japan after World War II. Under Article 3 of the treaty, the islands were placed under the administration of the United States as part of the Nansei Shoto Islands. The Senkaku Islands are included in the areas whose administrative rights were reverted to Japan in accordance with the Agreement between Japan and the United States of America Concerning the Ryukyu Islands and the Daito Islands that entered into force in 1972.
The Senkaku Islands have historically and consistently been part of the Nansei Shoto Islands which have been part of the territory of Japan. From 1885, surveys of the Senkaku Islands had been thoroughly conducted by the Government of Japan through the agencies of Okinawa Prefecture and through other means. Through these surveys, it was confirmed that the Senkaku Islands had been not only uninhabited but also showed no trace of having been under the control of the Qing Dynasty of China. Based on this confirmation, the Government of Japan made a Cabinet Decision on January 14, 1895, to erect markers on the islands to formally incorporate the Senkaku Islands into the territory of Japan. These measures were carried out in accordance with the internationally accepted means of duly acquiring territorial sovereignty under international law (occupation of terra nullius). The Senkaku Islands are not part of Formosa (Taiwan) and the Pescadores Islands that were ceded to Japan from the Qing Dynasty in accordance with Article II of the Treaty of Shimonoseki, concluded in April 1895.


*What are the concrete examples of Japan's valid control over the Senkaku Islands?*


A resident of Okinawa Prefecture who had been engaging in activities such as fishery around the Senkaku Islands since around 1884 made an application for the lease of the islands, and approval was granted by the Meiji Government in 1896. After this approval, he sent workers to those islands and ran the following businesses: collecting bird feathers, manufacturing dried bonito, collecting coral, raising cattle, manufacturing canned goods and collecting mineral phosphate guano (bird manure for fuel use). The fact that the Meiji Government gave approval concerning the use of the Senkaku Islands to an individual, who in turn was able to openly run these businesses mentioned above based on the approval, demonstrates Japan's valid control over the Islands.
Before World War II, the Central Government and the Government of Okinawa Prefecture conducted activities such as field surveys on the Senkaku Islands.
After World War II, as the Senkaku Islands had been placed under the administration of the United States as part of Nansei Shoto in accordance with Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty, Japan could not exercise direct control over the Islands until the administrative rights were reverted to Japan on May 15, 1972. However, even during this period, the Islands remained as part of the territory of Japan, and this legal status of the Islands, which was that no foreign state had rights over them, with the only exception of the administrative rights which the United States was authorized to exercise over the Islands under the San Francisco Peace Treaty, was ensured through the valid control by the United States Civil Administration of the Ryukyu Islands and the Government of the Ryukyu Islands.
The following are some examples of valid control after the reversion to Japan of the administrative rights over Okinawa including the Senkaku Islands.
(1) Patrol and law enforcement. (e.g. law enforcement on illegal fishing by foreign fishing boats)
(2) Levying taxes on the owners of the Islands under private ownership. (in Kuba Island.)
(3) Management as state-owned land (in Taisho Island, Uotsuri Island, etc.)
(4) As for Kuba Island and Taisho Island, the Government of Japan has offered them to the United States since 1972 as facilities/districts in Japan under the Japan-U.S. Status of Forces Agreement.
(5) Researches by the Central Government and the Government of Okinawa Prefecture (e.g. Utilization and development research by Okinawa Development Agency (construction of temporary heliport, etc.) (1979), Fishery research by the Okinawa Prefecture (1981), Research on albatrosses commissioned by the Environment Agency (1994).)



*Reference*: Ministry of Foreign Affairs

*What is the view of the Government of Japan on China's (and Taiwan's) assertions on territorial sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands?*



None of the points raised by the Government of China and the Taiwanese authorities as historical, geographical or geological evidences provide valid grounds in light of international law to support their sovereignty over the Islands.
Moreover, it is only since the 1970s that the Government of China and the Taiwanese Authorities began making their own assertions about the Senkaku Islands, which was after a survey conducted by an agency of the United Nations in autumn of 1968 had indicated the possibility of the existence of petroleum resources on the East China Sea, and attention was focused on the Senkaku Islands. Until then, they had never expressed any objections, including to the fact that the Islands were included in the area over which the United States exercised the administrative rights in accordance with Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty. China has never explained why it had not expressed objections.
There is a description of "the Senkaku Islands, Yaeyama District, Okinawa Prefecture, Empire of Japan" in the letter of appreciation dated May 1920 sent from the then consul of the Republic of China in Nagasaki concerning the distress which involved Chinese fishermen from Fujian Province around the Senkaku Islands. In addition, an article in the People's Daily dated January 8, 1953, under the title of "Battle of people in the Ryukyu Islands against the U.S. occupation", made clear that the Ryukyu Islands consist of 7 groups of islands including the Senkaku Islands. Moreover, in a world atlas collection published in 1958 by a Chinese map-publishing company (reprinted in 1960), there is a clear description of the Senkaku Islands as the “Senkaku Group of Islands” and it treats them as part of Okinawa. Furthermore, from the 1950s onward, the U.S. military used some of the Senkaku Islands (Taisho Island and Kuba Island) as firing/bombing ranges while the islands were under the administration of the United States, but there is no record of China ever having protested it during that period.
【Reference: Background of China's (and Taiwan's) assertions】
In the autumn of 1968, an academic survey conducted by experts of Japan, Taiwan and Korea with the cooperation of the United Nations Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East (ECAFE) indicated the possibility of the existence of petroleum resources on the East China Sea, and attention was focused on the Senkaku Islands.

【Reference: Letter of appreciation from the consul of the Republic of China in Nagasaki】(provisional translation)




In the winter of the 8th year (1919) of the Republic of China, 31 fishermen from Hui'an Country, Fujian Province were lost due to the stormy wind and were washed ashore on the Wayo Island, of the Senkaku Islands, Yaeyama District, Okinawa Prefecture, Empire of Japan.
Thanks to the enthusiastic rescue work by the people of Ishigaki village, Yaeyama District, Empire of Japan, they were able to safely return to their homeland. With a deep response and admiration toward the people of the village who were willing and generous in the rescue operation, I express my gratitude by this letter. Consul of the Republic of China in Nagasaki 　馮冕
20 May, the 9th year (1920) of the Republic of China

【Reference: The article on the People's Daily titled "Battle of people in the Ryukyu Islands against the U.S. occupation", dated 8 January1953】(Excerpt, provisional translation)




　"The Ryukyu Islands lie scattered on the sea between the Northeast of Taiwan of our State (note: China; same in the following text) and the Southwest of Kyushu, Japan. They consist of 7 groups of islands; the Senkaku Islands, the Sakishima Islands, the Daito Islands, the Okinawa Islands, the Oshima Islands, the Tokara Islands and the Osumi Islands. Each of them consists of a lot of small and large islands and there are more than 50 islands with names and about 400 islands without names. Overall they cover 4,670 square kilometers. The largest of them is the Okinawa Island in the Okinawa Islands, which covers 1,211 square kilometers. The second largest is the Amami Oshima Island in the Oshima Islands (the Amami Islands), which covers 730 square kilometers. The Ryukyu Islands stretch over 1,000 kilometers, inside of which is our East China Sea (the East Sea in Chinese) and outside of which is the high seas of the Pacific Ocean."

【Reference: "World Atlas Collection" (1958 (reprinted in 1960))】




　This was published by a Chinese map-publishing company in 1958. It clearly identifies the Senkaku Islands as “the Senkaku Group of Islands” and treats them as part of Okinawa. China claims that this atlas collection has a note saying that "part of the national border with China is based on an atlas made before the anti-Japanese war (that is, when Taiwan was a Japanese colony)"and that the content of this atlas published in 1958 does not support the argument that the Chinese government at the time recognized Japanese control of Senkaku Islands. However, the original text of the note only states that “the national border of China in this atlas was drawn based on an atlas of the Shen Bao daily (Chinese newspaper in those days) before the liberation from Japanese occupation (Chinese text: 本図集中国部分的国界線根据解放前申報地図絵制).” It is not clear which part specifically is the portion before the liberation. In this atlas, Taiwan is identified as part of the “People’s Republic of China” whereas the Senkaku Islands are identified as “the Senkaku Group of Islands”. It is unnatural that China remained to use the expression from the period when Taiwan was a colony of Japan only for the Senkaku Islands which China argues it belongs to Taiwan.




*Reference:*
*Japan Ministry of Foreign Affairs*

*The Chinese government asserts that the Senkaku Islands had not been terra nullius (“land belonging to no state”) as Japan claims, but that they have been an inherent part of the territory of China from ancient times; that they had been discovered, named and used by the Chinese nationals before anyone else, according to historical documents; that Chinese fishermen had engaged in fishing and other productive activities in this area; and that people along China’s southeast coast had been using Uotsuri Island as a navigation beacon. It also asserts that during the Ming Dynasty, the islands were already discovered and recognized by imperial envoys of China and that these islets belonged to Taiwan, which was included in China’s maritime defense zone. What is the view of the Japanese government?*




Japan incorporated the Islands into Okinawa Prefecture after conducting thorough surveys from 1885 , while ascertaining carefully that these islands had not only been uninhabited but also showed no trace of having been under a control of any state including China.
None of the arguments that the Chinese government or Taiwanese authorities have presented as historical, geographic or geological grounds is valid evidence under international law to support the Chinese assertion of its territorial sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands. Under international law, for example, the discovery of an island or geographical proximity alone does not evidence the assertion of territorial sovereignty. Recently, China has been asserting that it has historically owned the Senkaku Islands (meaning that it has not been terra nullius) based on many historical documents and maps existing in China. However, the contents of these documents, are completely insufficient as evidence to support China's assertion when those original documents are examined. Specifically,
(i) China asserts as follows: The Records of the Imperial Title-Conferring Envoys to Ryukyu (Shi Liu Qiu Lu) (1534) written by Chen Kan, an imperial title-conferring envoy from the Ming Court, clearly states that “the ship has passed Diaoyu Dao, Huangmao Yu, Chi Yu…Then Gumi Mountain comes into sight, that is where the land of Ryukyu begins” and, since “Gumi Mountain” is the present Kume Island, it means that the Senkaku Islands, located west of Kume Island, were the territory of China. China also asserts that in his book Records of Messages from Chong-shan (Zhong Shan Chuan Xin Lu) (1719), Xu Baoguang states that “姑米島琉球西南方界上鎮山” (Note: Mt. Gumi is the mountain guarding the southwest border of Ryukyu) and that this is also the ground for its assertion that the area west of Kume Island had belonged to China. However, although these documents showed that Kume Island belonged to Ryukyu, they did not have any reference that the Senkaku Islands, located to the west of Kume Island, belonged to the Ming or Qing Dynasty of China.
(ii) China also asserts that An Illustrated Compendium on Maritime Security (Chou Hai Tu Bian) (1561) compiled by Hu Zongxian included the Senkaku Islands on the “Map of Coastal Mountains and Sands” (Yan Hai Shan Sha Tu) and that these groups of islands were incorporated into the jurisdiction of the coastal defense of the Ming Court. The book, however, is not clear regarding whether these groups of islands were within the coastal defense of the Ming Court. The mere fact that the Senkaku Islands were printed on that map does not mean that they were generally regarded as territory of China at that time.

Rather, investigations in Japan have confirmed the presence of examples showing that since the 20th century, even through the 1950s and 1960s, China has recognized the Senkaku Islands as Japanese territory. Examples:
(i) From the 1950s onward, the U.S. military used part of the Senkaku Islands (Taisho Island and Kuba Island) for firing/bombing ranges while the islands were under the administration of the United States, but there is no record of China ever having protested it during that period.
(ii) There is a description of "the Senkaku Islands, Yaeyama District, Okinawa Prefecture, Empire of Japan" in a letter of appreciation dated May 1920 and sent from the then consul of the Republic of China in Nagasaki concerning the distress around the Senkaku Islands that involved Chinese fishermen from Fujian Province.
(iii) An article in the People's Daily dated January 8, 1953, under the title of "Battle of People in Ryukyu Islands against U.S. Occupation," wrote that the Ryukyu Islands consisted of seven groups of islands including the Senkaku Islands.
(iv) Moreover, the "World Atlas Collection" published by a Chinese map-publishing company in 1958 (reprinted in 1960) clearly identified the Senkaku Islands as "the Senkaku Group of Islands" and treated them as part of Okinawa.



*Reference:*
*Japan Ministry of Foreign Affairs*

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## Aepsilons

*China is strongly objecting to the Japanese government’s acquisition of the ownership of three Senkaku islands in September 2012. How does the Japanese government view such objection?*



There is no doubt whatsoever that the Senkaku Islands are an inherent part of the territory of Japan in light of historical facts and based upon international law. Indeed, those islands are under the valid control of the Government of Japan. There exists no issue of territorial sovereignty to be resolved concerning the Senkaku Islands. The Government of Japan’s acquisition of the ownership of the three Senkaku islands will not give rise to any problem with another country or region.
On the other hand, it is true that the Chinese government is making its own assertions on the Senkaku Islands. While Japan does not accede to such assertions, the Government of Japan has been explaining to the Chinese government from a broad perspective that the recent ownership transfer was aimed at maintaining and managing the Senkaku Islands peacefully and stably on a long-term basis and that the transfer is nothing more than returning the ownership from a private citizen to the Government, with which the ownership rested until 1932. The Government of Japan, as a country sharing responsibility for the peace and stability of East Asia, will continue to call upon the Chinese side to behave calmly without losing sight of the overall relationship between the two countries.
It is a matter for deep regret that violent anti-Japanese demonstrations took place in various parts of China, with some people throwing rocks and debris at Japanese diplomatic missions, physically injuring Japanese citizens, and setting fire on, damaging and looting facilities of Japanese business establishments. Regardless of reasons, violent acts must never be tolerated, and any dissatisfaction resulting from difference in views must be expressed in a peaceful manner. Japan is asking China to ensure the safety of Japanese citizens and businesses and to compensate properly the damage incurred by Japanese businesses.

*Reference: *
Japan Ministry of Foreign Affairs

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## xesy

China claims land and islands for itself but show very little historical evidences and avoid dealing through international laws and peace talks. China brushes off any arguments and evidences from Japan, Vietnam or Philipine. China hold their claims without any supporting and ignore other nations claims. China is ready to resort to violence to achieve their goal.
-->That, my man, is the current China you are dealing with.


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## BoQ77

I have my belief in the way of Nihonjin1051 showing the evidences of Japanese right in Senkaku islands.
Mention that I have my own previous post, to request renaming this thread to include the Senkaku islands name in it.

Someone created this in his purpose denies the Japanese right and no one hear my request to correct it.

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## Danny2014

What is next? China is going to claim Hawaii? Oh wait they already did.


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## rott

Danny2014 said:


> What is next? China is going to claim Hawaii? Oh wait they already did.


You already did claim and conquer America didn't you? So what's your point?


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## Owl of Abott

these islands were a part of china before japan occupied them in the 19th century.

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## BoQ77

So shame, the loser agreed below:

After China lost the war, both countries signed the Treaty of Shimonoseki in April 1895 that stipulated, among other things, that China would cede to Japan "the island of Formosa together with all islands appertaining or belonging to said island of Formosa (Taiwan)"


Article 1: China recognizes definitively the full and complete independence and autonomy of Korea, and, in consequence, the payment of tribute and the performance of ceremonies and formalities by Korea to China, that are in derogation of such independence and autonomy, shall wholly cease for the future.
Articles 2 & 3: China cedes to Japan in perpetuity and full sovereignty of the Penghu group, Taiwan and the eastern portion of the bay of Liaodong Peninsula together with all fortifications, arsenals and public property.
Article 4: China agrees to pay to Japan as a war indemnity the sum of 200,000,000 Kuping taels
Article 5: China opens Shashih, Chungking, Soochow and Hangchow to Japan. Moreover, China is to grant Japan most-favored-nation treatment.

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## Keel

Owl of Abott said:


> these islands were a part of china before japan occupied them in the 19th century.



These islands have to be returned to China based on the directions as stated in the Cairo as well as the Potsdam Declarations whereupon the Japanese, which in the capacity of a defeated nation in WW2, has signed the "Instrument of Surrender" to bring the Declarations into effect.

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## Aepsilons

Best to just shelve the dispute.


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## 远古盘古

日本不是一个好人（跟日本人民没有关系） 近代发动侵略战争的罪魁祸首 日本历史做环事多 还想贪婪占钓鱼岛 日本太过分了 中国很多讨厌日本 最近中国地图 新闻 网站等证明钓鱼岛是中国的 日本每天跟中国争不停钓鱼岛 日本没办法拿下中国 求美国帮忙因为日本是美国一条狗 然后美国不敢援手 日本想把美国下水 还继续争钓鱼 中日关系废了 日本想开战威胁中国 中国人民爱好和平不愿意发动战争 中国人民很多讨厌日本支持中国打小日本 还有日本历史课本把中国历史给改 他妈太可恶 对中国南京大屠杀大侮辱 日本还继续争你妹占钓鱼岛 
Japan is not a good man (it doesn't matter with the Japanese people)in modern history of Japan launched the war of aggression in thearch-criminal do ring thing many still want to greedy occupy Diaoyu Islands Japan too much China many hate Japan recently China mapnews web site, prove that the Diaoyu Islands are Chinese Japaneseevery day with China dispute does not stop the Diaoyu Islands Japancan't take Chinese for America help because Japan is a dog can'thelp USA then American Japan want to USA water also continue to contend for fishing in Sino Japanese relations waste Japan want war.Threat China Chinese people love peace and do not want to start a war Chinese people hate Japanese support since Chinese manyJapanese and Japanese history textbooks to China history to changehis mother too hateful to Chinese Nanjing the Holocaust insult Japan continues to make you younger sister occupy the Diaoyu Islands

*惨痛历史让中国人必须记住的十个日本人(组图)*
*Ten Japanese painful history makes Chinese must remember (Photos)*
*惨痛历史让中国人必须记住的十个日本人(组图) ? 铁血网*

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## Aepsilons

...静かにしてください !


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## sicsheep

BoQ77 said:


> So shame, the loser agreed below:
> 
> After China lost the war, both countries signed the Treaty of Shimonoseki in April 1895 that stipulated, among other things, that China would cede to Japan "the island of Formosa together with all islands appertaining or belonging to said island of Formosa (Taiwan)"
> 
> 
> Article 1: China recognizes definitively the full and complete independence and autonomy of Korea, and, in consequence, the payment of tribute and the performance of ceremonies and formalities by Korea to China, that are in derogation of such independence and autonomy, shall wholly cease for the future.
> Articles 2 & 3: China cedes to Japan in perpetuity and full sovereignty of the Penghu group, Taiwan and the eastern portion of the bay of Liaodong Peninsula together with all fortifications, arsenals and public property.
> Article 4: China agrees to pay to Japan as a war indemnity the sum of 200,000,000 Kuping taels
> Article 5: China opens Shashih, Chungking, Soochow and Hangchow to Japan. Moreover, China is to grant Japan most-favored-nation treatment.



talking of shame, you whole nation were ruled by french at that time.  , yeah go ahead bring up Mongolia LOL

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## cirr

Diaoyudao website：

钓鱼岛_钓鱼岛是中国的固有领土

English、Japanese、Russian、German、Spanish etc version coming。

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## Aepsilons

*Japanese Government's Position:*







Senkaku Islands ｜ Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan

The Tokyo Metropolitan Government's website of the Senkaku Islands

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## yusheng

some pics of 2013 :

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## Aepsilons



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## Keel

Imperial japan as a defeated nation has surrendered occupation of all the islands which do not belong to if. This has the legal effect of reverting the sovereighty of the Diaoyu Islands to China unconditionally by virtue of Potsdam and Cairo Declarations respectively


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## Aepsilons

*Senkaku Shoto is an inherent part of Japan , now and in perpetuity.*

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## Aepsilons

Senkakus are ours. Now and Forever.

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## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Senkakus are ours. Now and Forever.


rather provocative phrase. 

Forever is also a long time.

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## Steakhouse

Nihonjin1051 said:


> View attachment 193041
> 
> 
> View attachment 193042








China government can easily encourage Chinese to stand in the island with China flag raise above their head. This island China consider it a dispute, China want to escalate the situation can easily done.

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## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> Forever is also a long time.



Until pebbles
grow into boulders
lush with moss.








Steakhouse said:


> China government can easily encourage Chinese to stand in the island with China flag raise above their head. This island China consider it a dispute, China want to escalate the situation can easily done.



It is ours. Forever will be ours. China may dispute all she wants, it does not change the fact that we Administer it. It is ours. Period.

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## Genesis

SvenSvensonov said:


> And 15 seconds is enough to render the population of earth insolvent. Best leave the status quo to stand than seek the alternative.
> 
> Forever is a long time, and change will come, but who can say with any certainty that Japan will make the move? What about China? Perhaps North Korea will. Or the US... Yeah, I like that.



who can say for certain? Easy, China only needs to continue to grow, Japan cannot grow anymore, even at best they match and exceed US per capita, which they won't, they still won't have a GDP and spending near what either China nor US can put out there.

Ali vs Liston dude. Just because one seems intimidating against third rate powers, doesn't mean they can take on a real P4P HOF.


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## Aepsilons

SvenSvensonov said:


> You have guts my friend!!! Those pics are a slap in the face of anyone disputing said islands that's for sure. It's the reality, Japan has physical control of the islands, but damn, that's cold!!!



he he he.

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## Steakhouse

This island will remain there till the end of time, this island not large enough to stop any invasion force to take over the island. Better settle this dispute in a manner acceptable to both japan and China. In no way Japan can physically defense the island from China invasion without US military fighting along side of Japan.


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## Aepsilons

SvenSvensonov said:


> Hey, @Nihonjin1051 - Those are very beautiful islands, why not turn them into a joint Japanese-Chinese resort destination? I know the resource issues is the main sticking point behind said islands, but can a jointly run operation or business venture help sooth the dispute? Japan wouldn't need to absolve its claims to the island, just allow China to be part of the development and prosperity on the islands, while Japan retains the deeds.
> 
> Or how about joint development of resources.
> 
> I'd vacation there... well, assuming you don't take us up on our offer to nuke the whole place.
> 
> I don't know, like you I'm just tired of this whole dispute.



I agree. Japan should develop the islands -- completely. Joint development of the islands? No, not likely. We should invite Chinese tourists after we develop it tho.

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## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I agree. Japan should develop the islands -- completely. Joint development of the islands? No, not likely. We should invite Chinese tourists after we develop it tho.


so no more working together? 

excellent, I was getting tired of that anyways, now it's you, it's me, it's Japan, and it's China for the undisputed heavy weight champion of the world.

but you might want to put on a few pounds to get into that ring.


----------



## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> who can say for certain? Easy, China only needs to continue to grow, Japan cannot grow anymore, even at best they match and exceed US per capita, which they won't, they still won't have a GDP and spending near what either China nor US can put out there.
> 
> Ali vs Liston dude. Just because one seems intimidating against third rate powers, doesn't mean they can take on a real P4P HOF.



Doesnt change anything, buddy. We have it, trying to get Senkaku is like cutting in front of Black guy in a buffet line. It ain't happening.


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## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Doesnt change anything, buddy. We have it, trying to get Senkaku is like cutting in front of Black guy in a buffet line. It ain't happening.


sure it is, I done it, nothing scare about a black man, and that's racist dude.


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## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> so no more working together?
> 
> excellent, I was getting tired of that anyways, now it's you, it's me, it's Japan, and it's China for the undisputed heavy weight champion of the world.
> 
> but you might want to put on a few pounds to get into that ring.



lol. 

Buddy, Genny, come on. Why you so mad? Listen, we still trade, we do business, we cooperate. Its just --- not good to discuss about Senkaku, know what i mean? You call it Diaoyutai, we call it Senakaku Shoto. Let's just not talk about it -- and everything will be okay. 

Know what a i mean, playa? Aight, hope you game wid it.


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## Steakhouse

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Doesnt change anything, buddy. We have it, trying to get Senkaku is like cutting in front of Black guy in a buffet line. It ain't happening.







China build up their navy in the future if need be will be use to solve the dispute by force, I don't see how China will back down any confrontation with Japan over the dispute if the condition demand it to be so.


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## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> lol.
> 
> Buddy, Genny, come on. Why you so mad? Listen, we still trade, we do business, we cooperate. Its just --- not good to discuss about Senkaku, know what i mean? You call it Diaoyutai, we call it Senakaku Shoto. Let's just not talk about it -- and everything will be okay.
> 
> Know what a i mean, playa? Aight, hope you game wid it.


dude, I ain't from Jersey, ?playa?

It's good to talk about it, when you get into the real corporate world, which I think you said you want to, everything is on the table, people fight, people work together, but most importantly, people win.

Feelings can be hurt, don't worry, I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

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## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> dude, I ain't from Jersey, ?playa?
> 
> It's good to talk about it, when you get into the real corporate world, which I think you said you want to, everything is on the table, people fight, people work together, but most importantly, people win.
> 
> Feelings can be hurt, don't worry, I'm a big boy, I can handle it.



I know, man. Japan and China are big economies, we want bigger pie pieces. It's not worth fighting over such a small little island. 



Steakhouse said:


> China build up their navy in the future if need be will be use to solve the dispute by force, I don't see how China will back down any confrontation with Japan over the dispute if the condition demand it to be so.



Hey Angolan dude, worry about Angola. Northeast Asia isn't something you should be concerned about. 

Thanks.


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## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I know, man. Japan and China are big economies, we want bigger pie pieces. It's not worth fighting over such a small little island.



It's so worth it man, cause you know what's more fun than money? Getting back at people, though most of the time it's the same thing, added bonus.


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## Steakhouse

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I know, man. Japan and China are big economies, we want bigger pie pieces. It's not worth fighting over such a small little island.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Angolan dude, worry about Angola. Northeast Asia isn't something you should be concerned about.
> 
> Thanks.





This is a open forum, your post open to the public, everyone can view them as offer their opinion, you can say your post is not anyone concert because your post intend for the public viewing.


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## Keel

*US film shows Diaoyu Islands belongs to China *

The documentary titled, "Diaoyu Islands, The Truth" is made by Hollywood writer and director Chris D. Nebe, and produced by Monarex Hollywood Corporation. It is one of twelve documentaries in the director’s "Mysterious China" series, which introduce Chinese history, culture and current developments to the world.

The 40-minute film informed people that the Diaoyu Islands have been Chinese territory since ancient times, and Imperial Japan annexed them from China in 1895 after the First Sino-Japanese War. The Director holds the view that "the Diaoyu Islands conflict goes from the so-called administrative rights of the United States." After the Second World War, instead of returning the islands to China, the United States claimed ’administrative rights.’ In 1971, the US gave the islands to Japan, ignoring China’s claim.

"Diaoyu Islands, The Truth" released in LA CCTV News - CNTV English




Embedded media from this media site is no longer available












or watch the film hereunder with Chinese and English substitles

蒙纳瑞克斯电影公司：神秘中国_钓鱼岛真相_网易公开课

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## Steakhouse

Keel said:


> *US film shows Diaoyu Islands belongs to China *
> 
> The documentary titled, "Diaoyu Islands, The Truth" is made by Hollywood writer and director Chris D. Nebe, and produced by Monarex Hollywood Corporation. It is one of twelve documentaries in the director’s "Mysterious China" series, which introduce Chinese history, culture and current developments to the world.
> 
> The 40-minute film informed people that the Diaoyu Islands have been Chinese territory since ancient times, and Imperial Japan annexed them from China in 1895 after the First Sino-Japanese War. The Director holds the view that "the Diaoyu Islands conflict goes from the so-called administrative rights of the United States." After the Second World War, instead of returning the islands to China, the United States claimed ’administrative rights.’ In 1971, the US gave the islands to Japan, ignoring China’s claim.
> 
> "Diaoyu Islands, The Truth" released in LA CCTV News - CNTV English
> 
> Read more at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Documents: Japan knew Diaoyu Islands belong to China*
> _09-16-2012 13:43 BJT_ Special Report: *Diaoyu Islands: China’s inherent territory* |
> 
> 
> *Watch Video*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Play Video*
> 
> 
> A Chinese scholar has published 19th century Japanese government official documents related to the islands. They suggest Japan clearly knew the Diaoyu Islands were China’s when the Japanese staked claim to them in 1895.
> 
> Zhao Yingjun downloaded the documents from the Japanese National Archives website.
> 
> One of the documents was submitted by an Okinawa magistrate to the Japanese Interior Minister in 1885. The investigation paper clearly suggests the Diaoyu Islands belonged to China’s Qing Dynasty government.
> 
> Another document from the same year shows some Japanese officials warning the government not to stake claim on the Diaoyu Islands for fear of the Qing Government.
> 
> Dr. Zhao Yingjun, Beijing Normal University Law School, said, "These two Japanese documents clearly indicate that before 1895, the Japanese government recognized that the Diaoyu Islands belonged to China. "
> 
> However, 10 years later, after the 1894 China-Japan War, Japan made the decision to stake its claim to the Islands.
> 
> The Japanese government argued that they were no man’s land before January 14, 1895. Anyone who occupied them first could claim sovereignty over them.
> 
> Dr. Zhao said, "It’s because at that time, after the war, China didn’t have the strength to fight Japan. So when Japan made the Islands its territory, it was theft. "
> 
> Dr. Zhao adds that, this evidence shows that, Japan’s claim that the Diaoyu Islands were no man’s land is untenable.
> 
> Therefore, its claim of sovereignty over the islands through occupation has always been illegal.
> 
> Documents: Japan knew Diaoyu Islands belong to China CCTV News - CNTV English








All these claim and counter claim are worthless without a military to back up your claim.


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## Keel

*Documents: Japan knew Diaoyu Islands belong to China*
_09-16-2012 13:43 BJT_ Special Report: *Diaoyu Islands: China’s inherent territory* |


*Watch Video*


*

Play Video*


A Chinese scholar has published 19th century Japanese government official documents related to the islands. They suggest Japan clearly knew the Diaoyu Islands were China’s when the Japanese staked claim to them in 1895.

Zhao Yingjun downloaded the documents from the Japanese National Archives website.

One of the documents was submitted by an Okinawa magistrate to the Japanese Interior Minister in 1885. The investigation paper clearly suggests the Diaoyu Islands belonged to China’s Qing Dynasty government.

Another document from the same year shows some Japanese officials warning the government not to stake claim on the Diaoyu Islands for fear of the Qing Government.

Dr. Zhao Yingjun, Beijing Normal University Law School, said, "These two Japanese documents clearly indicate that before 1895, the Japanese government recognized that the Diaoyu Islands belonged to China. "

However, 10 years later, after the 1894 China-Japan War, Japan made the decision to stake its claim to the Islands.

The Japanese government argued that they were no man’s land before January 14, 1895. Anyone who occupied them first could claim sovereignty over them.

Dr. Zhao said, "It’s because at that time, after the war, China didn’t have the strength to fight Japan. So when Japan made the Islands its territory, it was theft. "

Dr. Zhao adds that, this evidence shows that, Japan’s claim that the Diaoyu Islands were no man’s land is untenable.

Therefore, its claim of sovereignty over the islands through occupation has always been illegal.

Documents: Japan knew Diaoyu Islands belong to China CCTV News - CNTV English

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## yusheng

Steakhouse said:


> All these claim and counter claim are worthless without a military to back up your claim.


 yes, you are right, see the PLAN EXERCISE yesterday2015 2 13 ,14
















The Japanese self defense forces news websites SAYS, in February 13th, 14, Chinese two ships, a transport -9 electronic reconnaissance aircraft through the Miyako Strait, into the Western Pacific ocean. Is this the end Chinese naval ship machine West Pacific exercise again after the implementation of exercise to the western pacific last decemeber.

日统合幕僚监部网站发布，2月13日，日本海上自卫队第15护卫队“大凑”号护卫舰和第一航空群所属P-3C海上巡逻机在宫古岛东北方向约110公里海域发现中国海军一艘驱逐舰和一艘护卫舰正向东南航行，随后两舰进入西太平洋海域。两艘舰分别为中国海军东海舰队”现代”II级（956EM型）别138舰（“泰州”号导弹驱逐舰）和“江凯”II级（054A型）530舰（“徐州”号导弹护卫舰）。 2月14日，中国海军一架运-9电子侦察机飞经宫古海峡进入台湾以东洋面实施行动，日本自卫队战斗机紧急起飞进行追踪观察。

the Maritime Self Defense Force fifteenth guards "ominato" frigate and the first aviation group belongs to P-3C maritime patrol aircraft in Miyako Island, about 110 km northeast found off Chinese navy destroyer and a frigate sailed southeast, then enter the two ship the West Pacific ocean. Two ships were Chinese Navy's East China Sea fleet "modern" II class (type 956EM) don't 138 frigate (Destroyer "Taizhou") and "Jiang Kai" class II (054A type) 530 ships ("Xuzhou" missile frigate). In February 14th, China Navy a transport -9 electronic reconnaissance aircraft flying through the Miyako strait into Taiwan ocean to the east of the implementation of the action, the Japanese Self Defense Force fighters were scrambled to track observation.

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## Aepsilons

Best to put this in back burner.

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## Keel

19 April 2014 Last updated at 21:29
*Japan to build military site near disputed islands*
ence Minister Onodera suggested Japan may station troops on other islands
Continue reading the main story
*Related Stories*

How uninhabited islands soured China-Japan ties
US: China sea rules 'provocative'
Japan has begun construction work on a military radar station near a string of islands that is at the centre of a territorial dispute with China.

Correspondents say the move will anger Beijing as it may allow Japan to expand surveillance near the Chinese mainland.

The new base - on Yonaguni island - is located just 150km (90 miles) from the Japanese-held Senkaku island group, claimed by China as the Diaoyu islands.

About 150 personnel are due to be deployed on Yonaguni within two years.

During a ceremony to mark the start of project, Japanese Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera suggested his country's military presence could be extended to other islands in the region.





"This is the first deployment since the US returned Okinawa [in 1972] and calls for us to be more on guard are growing," Mr Onodera told reporters.

"I want to build an operation able to properly defend islands that are part of Japan's territory."

Tensions between Japan and China rose last year, after Beijing imposed an Air Defence Identification Zone above disputed islands in the East China Sea - including the Senkakus.

The move was also condemned by the US.

Several countries claim competing sovereignty over islands, reefs and shoals in the South China Sea.


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## JSCh

* China continues Diaoyu Islands patrol *
Source:Xinhua Published: 2015-3-16 18:57:26 

China Coast Guard (CCG) vessels conducted a patrol in waters surrounding the Diaoyu Islands Monday, according to a statement issued by the State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

The vessels are CCG 2306, 2350 and 2102. China has been conducting patrols on a regular basis.

The SOA plans to enhance law enforcement over uninhabited islands in 2015, and to increase maritime strength such as further developing icebreakers, its director Wang Hong said in February.

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## LacViet

NHK reported that China Atlas stated that Senkaku is part of Japan territory.

*(I can't post a link)*

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## Aepsilons

LacViet said:


> NHK reported that China Atlas stated that Senkaku is part of Japan territory.
> 
> *(I can't post a link)*



Thanks sweetheart !

-----------------


The Yomiuri Shimbun An atlas published by the Chinese government in 1969 identifies the Senkaku Islands by their Japanese name, new evidence that the group of islands in Okinawa Prefecture is inherently Japanese territory, the Foreign Ministry said Monday.

The ministry has posted the maps in a section featuring the Senkaku Islands on its website.

The map is part of an atlas published in 1969 by the then Chinese State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping, the equivalent of the Geospatial Information Authority of Japan. In addition to referring to the overall group of islands as the “Senkaku Islands” in Japanese characters, the name of Uotsuri Island, the westernmost island in the group, is also written in Japanese characters.

Yoshiaki Harada, a Liberal Democratic Party member of the House of Representatives, obtained the atlas from a former Foreign Ministry bureaucrat and showed it as evidence during his interpellation at the lower house Budget Committee meeting on Feb. 23.

Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida responded to Harada’s question by saying: “This is valuable data. By utilizing various data, we must continue to strategically send our message abroad.”

The Chinese government began claiming the Senkaku Islands in 1971 after the then U.N. Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East — presently the U.N. Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific — released a report in May 1969 that said oil reserves may exist in the islands’ seabed.

At that point, Beijing began calling the group of islands “Diaoyu.”

“China had changed its name for the islands since it started claiming sovereignty over them. This indicates that China regarded the islands as belonging to Japan back then, and will serve as corroborating evidence to Japan’s assertions,” said a senior foreign ministry official.

1969 Chinese atlas used ‘Senkaku Islands’ - The Japan News

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## Keel

*China Foreign Affairs Department:*
*Diaoyu Islands belonging to China is a fact that cannot be ruled out by presentation of one or two maps*

*外交部:钓鱼岛属于中国事实不是某些人找出一两张地图就能推翻的--国际--人民网*

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## BoQ77

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Thanks sweetheart !
> 
> -----------------
> 
> 
> The Yomiuri Shimbun An atlas published by the Chinese government in 1969 identifies the Senkaku Islands by their Japanese name, new evidence that the group of islands in Okinawa Prefecture is inherently Japanese territory, the Foreign Ministry said Monday.
> 
> The ministry has posted the maps in a section featuring the Senkaku Islands on its website.
> 
> The map is part of an atlas published in 1969 by the then Chinese State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping, the equivalent of the Geospatial Information Authority of Japan. In addition to referring to the overall group of islands as the “Senkaku Islands” in Japanese characters, the name of Uotsuri Island, the westernmost island in the group, is also written in Japanese characters.
> 
> Yoshiaki Harada, a Liberal Democratic Party member of the House of Representatives, obtained the atlas from a former Foreign Ministry bureaucrat and showed it as evidence during his interpellation at the lower house Budget Committee meeting on Feb. 23.
> 
> Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida responded to Harada’s question by saying: “This is valuable data. By utilizing various data, we must continue to strategically send our message abroad.”
> 
> The Chinese government began claiming the Senkaku Islands in 1971 after the then U.N. Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East — presently the U.N. Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific — released a report in May 1969 that said oil reserves may exist in the islands’ seabed.
> 
> At that point, Beijing began calling the group of islands “Diaoyu.”
> 
> “China had changed its name for the islands since it started claiming sovereignty over them. This indicates that China regarded the islands as belonging to Japan back then, and will serve as corroborating evidence to Japan’s assertions,” said a senior foreign ministry official.
> 
> 1969 Chinese atlas used ‘Senkaku Islands’ - The Japan News

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## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


>




Bingo.


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## Keel

*Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman: 1969 map proves Diaoyu Islands belong to China *
English.news.cn | 2015-03-19 14:31:31 | Editor: An Lu

BEIJING, March 19 (Xinhua) -- The 1969 map posted on the Japanese Foreign Ministry website can only prove that the Diaoyu Islands are an integral part of China and that *Japan invaded China's Taiwan and stole the Diaoyu Islands,* Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei said on Wednesday.

Hong pointed out that* the Diaoyu Islands and its affiliated waters are extended beyond the sheet line of the map in the form of 'border break', serving as powerful evidence that the Diaoyu Islands are a part of China.*

*Accentuating that China is the first country to discover the Diaoyu Islands and has long-term effective administration over the area, Hong also explained that the change to name of the Diaoyu Islands on relevant maps was due to Japanese occupation of Taiwan and its affiliated islands after the Sino-Japanese war in 1894.*

*"After the Second World War, the Diaoyu Dao was given back to China following relevant international legal instrument. Be it Japan's colonial rule or its repercussions on map-drawing, nothing can change the fact that the Diaoyu Dao belongs to China," Hong said.*


*Another scam is busted*
*Thank you Hong Lei*

*



*

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## BoQ77

Chinese named it as Senkaku? In their printed map. And call it by Diaoyu in press conference?

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## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


> Chinese named it as Senkaku? In their printed map. And call it by Diaoyu in press conference?


----------



## Keel

*China urges Japan to stick to "purely defensive defense" strategy *

English.news.cn | 2015-03-19 23:12:20 | Editor: huaxia


TOKYO, March 19 (Xinhua) -- China hopes Japan could stick to its decades-long "purely defensive defense" strategy and have an objective and rational perception on China's development, a Chinese delegation said at a China-Japan security dialogue here on Thursday.

The delegation, led by Assistant Foreign Minister Liu Jianchao, also expressed concerns over Japan's security moves in recent years and expected Tokyo to adhere to a path of peaceful development and play a constructive role in maintaining peace and stability in the region.

Japan overhauled its defense stance since Prime Minister Shinzo Abe took office in late 2012 by lifting bans on weapons exports, reinterpreting its pacifist constitution to allow its Self-Defense Forces to exercise right to collective self-defense and boosting defense budget.

The delegation told the Japanese side at the security dialogue, the first one in more than four years, that China upholds the principle of peaceful development and will stick to and benefit from the path, adding that Beijing proposes a common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security concept and will continue to contribute to the regional and world peace and stability.

Briefing the country's defense and security policies, the Japanese side said further exchanges on the security issue help improve mutual trust between the two countries and are of significance to further enhance bilateral ties, according to the Chinese delegation.

The two sides agreed to intensify dialogue and communication on the basis of equality and steadily push forward security cooperation so as to improve bilateral strategic relationship of mutual benefit.

Liu said it is important to keep dialogue between the two countries' foreign and defense ministries as the two sides are important neighbors and regional powers, adding the meeting is also of significance to maintain regional peace.

China-Japan relations witnessed a turning point last year with the signing of a four-point agreement, adding Beijing hopes to develop ties with Tokyo in the spirit of "*taking history as a mirror and looking forward to the future*," he said.

Japanese Deputy Foreign Minister Shinsuke Sugiyama said Japan- China ties gradually improved since last year as the two sides agreed to establish air and maritime emergency contact mechanism and high-level negotiations over maritime issue.

The two sides should talk directly so as to resolve problems existing in their ties and carry out relevant cooperation through talks, he noted.

Senior officials from both sides' defense ministries also took part in the meeting.

*The talks, launched in 1993, were last held in Beijing in January 2011 but were suspended due to Japan's unilateral move to "nationalize" China's Diaoyu Islands. China-Japan ties are frayed due to the territorial dispute as well as historical issues.*

Also on Thursday, the two sides also held their regular consultation between foreign ministries and exchanged views on China-Japan relations and related issues.


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## BoQ77

On topic, Japan keep Senkaku island for over 40 years, they didn't kill any Chinese to occupy the island, they don't land reclamation, don't expand ... no blame
So since when they become aggressor ? 

And China? in SCS ?



Keel said:


> *China urges Japan to stick to "purely defensive defense" strategy *
> 
> English.news.cn | 2015-03-19 23:12:20 | Editor: huaxia
> 
> 
> TOKYO, March 19 (Xinhua) -- China hopes Japan could stick to its decades-long "purely defensive defense" strategy and have an objective and rational perception on China's development, a Chinese delegation said at a China-Japan security dialogue here on Thursday.
> 
> The delegation, led by Assistant Foreign Minister Liu Jianchao, also expressed concerns over Japan's security moves in recent years and expected Tokyo to adhere to a path of peaceful development and play a constructive role in maintaining peace and stability in the region.
> 
> Japan overhauled its defense stance since Prime Minister Shinzo Abe took office in late 2012 by lifting bans on weapons exports, reinterpreting its pacifist constitution to allow its Self-Defense Forces to exercise right to collective self-defense and boosting defense budget.
> 
> The delegation told the Japanese side at the security dialogue, the first one in more than four years, that China upholds the principle of peaceful development and will stick to and benefit from the path, adding that Beijing proposes a common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security concept and will continue to contribute to the regional and world peace and stability.
> 
> Briefing the country's defense and security policies, the Japanese side said further exchanges on the security issue help improve mutual trust between the two countries and are of significance to further enhance bilateral ties, according to the Chinese delegation.
> 
> The two sides agreed to intensify dialogue and communication on the basis of equality and steadily push forward security cooperation so as to improve bilateral strategic relationship of mutual benefit.
> 
> Liu said it is important to keep dialogue between the two countries' foreign and defense ministries as the two sides are important neighbors and regional powers, adding the meeting is also of significance to maintain regional peace.
> 
> China-Japan relations witnessed a turning point last year with the signing of a four-point agreement, adding Beijing hopes to develop ties with Tokyo in the spirit of "*taking history as a mirror and looking forward to the future*," he said.
> 
> Japanese Deputy Foreign Minister Shinsuke Sugiyama said Japan- China ties gradually improved since last year as the two sides agreed to establish air and maritime emergency contact mechanism and high-level negotiations over maritime issue.
> 
> The two sides should talk directly so as to resolve problems existing in their ties and carry out relevant cooperation through talks, he noted.
> 
> Senior officials from both sides' defense ministries also took part in the meeting.
> 
> *The talks, launched in 1993, were last held in Beijing in January 2011 but were suspended due to Japan's unilateral move to "nationalize" China's Diaoyu Islands. China-Japan ties are frayed due to the territorial dispute as well as historical issues.*
> 
> Also on Thursday, the two sides also held their regular consultation between foreign ministries and exchanged views on China-Japan relations and related issues.

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## bestsunshine

diaoyu island belongs to china.myfrineds,i am a young chinese student.i found that some chinese people do not know much about pakista people.so they make some friends in china unhappy,i feel sorry.forgive them.best wish to you.my english isnot very good


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## Aepsilons




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## Keel

*^^^^
Illegal trespassing Diaoyu Islands by the Japanese right wings!*


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## Aepsilons

How can it be illegal when we own Senkaku Shoto. 

Possession is, afterall, 9/10ths of the Law.


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## Keel

just some trivial Japanese signs dont improve the legitimacy of the territory for Japanese claim nor the illegal trespassing ot the Japanese can negate our sovereignty over the Islands as empowered by numerous facts and historical data and by the Potsdam Declaration and Cairo Declaration upon the Japanese surrender in WW2!


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## Aepsilons

Actually the Senkakus were never mentioned in the Terms of Surrender. The Senkakus are part of the Ryukyu Island Chains of the Japanese Archipelago. Listen, Japan has been administering the Senkaku Shoto even before the fall of the Qing Dynasty. Even before the birth of the PRC.






Omikami Amaterasu, goddess of the Sun

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## Keel

China exists long before PRC
China was not a party of signatories in the San Franciso Treaty albeit we were a key party
Diaoyu Islands are a part of China since history
The Laws and History compel Japan to return the sovereignty to China unconditionally





Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding


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## Aepsilons

Keel said:


> China exists long before PRC
> China was not a party of signatories in the San Franciso Treaty albeit we were a key party
> Diaoyu Islands are a part of China since history
> The Laws and History compel Japan to return the sovereignty to China unconditionally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding




The laws of history? lol.

Senkaku Shoto is ours.










Shunki Reitaisai Festival, Japan

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## Keel

Keep your wet-dreams to yourself and distorting history Japan!


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## Aepsilons

Japan will protect all territories that are part of the Japanese Archipelago. And clearly the Senkaku Shoto are inherent and integral parts of Japan. We would wish our relevant partners and friends to consider the wisdom in understanding and proceeding the middle path with Japan. 








_karesansui_, traditional Japanese garden.


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## Keel

Haha keep drivelling!


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## Aepsilons

雨降って地固まる


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## Amember

Even Guan Yu (God of War) and Omikami Amaterasu (Goddes of the Sun) descended to PDF.
interesting...


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## CCP

Well, Diaoyu island is under Chinese Air defence identification zone(ADIZ).
Japan and US airways have to confirm their Identity to China before enter that ADIZ.(Japan refused to do so at first place but agreed after US signed with China).


Some pic western media will never show you.

H-6 over Diaoyu island




























CAN YOU FIND ANY PHOTO THAT JAPANESE PLANE WITH DIAOYU ISLAND AFTER CHINA SETTED the ADIZ?

*One Year of ADIZ: What Next for China?*
China’s East China Sea air defense identification zone (ADIZ) remains ambiguous. (2014)

It’s now been a year since China unilaterally declared an air defense identification zone (ADIZ) over a large swathe of the East China Sea. Beijing’s decision to do so came at a time of rising tensions between China and Japan over the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. While that dispute persists today, tensions were significantly higher a year ago, with the potential for escalation high on both sides. At the time, _The Diplomat_ hosted a wide range of perspectives on why Beijing chose to act as it did and the ramifications the ADIZ decision would carry going forward for the security of the Asia-Pacific region, China-Japan relations, and more. A year later, most of the questions raised then still endure. For example, will Beijing follow up on the mixed signals it’s been sending about a potential ADIZ over the South China Sea? Could Beijing’s enforcement of its ADIZ draw international legal action? Finally, will Beijing’s justification of the ADIZ evolve with time? I’ll mostly focus on the first question here.

We’ve seen mixed signals come out of China regarding the possibility of a South China ADIZ. For example, while a senior PLA official called for China to establish an ADIZ over the South China Sea, noting that it was “necessary for China’s long-term national interest,” these calls had been contradicted by official Chinese foreign ministry statements noting that there were no plans to install an ADIZ over the South China Sea. The geography of the South China Sea and China’s capacious territorial claim to almost the entirety of the region, down to the Borneo coastline, make the decision to declare an ADIZ there more complicated. Specifically, as I’ve discussed here before, the nature of China’s dashed line claim leaves some interesting and strategically advantageous ambiguities that would be threatened with the declaration of a _de jure_ ADIZ.

Currently, Beijing’s claim delineates the _maximum_ extent of Chinese control over the region. By declaring an ADIZ, Beijing would have to worry about the issue of enforcement. While the PLAN is the by far the strongest regional navy in terms of both quality and quantity of its assets, both it and its sibling service, the PLAAF, would likely find the task of enforcing an ADIZ over the entirety of the South China Sea an unmanageable task given current realities. Additionally, when China declared its East China Sea ADIZ, countries like Japan and the United States went further than ignoring the declaration: they actively defied Beijing’s declaration, challenging China to take the step of enforcement. Japanese civilian flights continued through the region, and the United States flew B-52 bombers through the region. If similar opposition were to emerge from the Philippines, Vietnam, and other claimants in the South China Sea, the ADIZ would only expose China’s inability to effectively administer its claimed territory. The sort of legal advantage that Beijing sought to gain with the East China Sea ADIZ is considerably more challenging to attain in the context of the South China Sea.

At this point, given ASEAN’s inability to come together to agree on a Code of Conduct for the South China Sea, declaring an ADIZ would be strategically imprudent for Beijing. In the East China Sea case, the ADIZ declaration came at a time of escalating tensions between Japan and China and bore few costs for Beijing. Given its current position in the South China Sea, there is no need for China to wage lawfare against claimants with an ADIZ. The impetus to impose an ADIZ will rise the more progress other South China Sea claimants make on either resolving disputes between themselves or putting forth a united front against China.

While the prospect of a South China Sea ADIZ will remain on the horizon, what is more important is for Beijing to make important clarifications about the justification of its East China Sea ADIZ which currently leaves numerous legal ambiguities. As Roncevert Almond notes in _The Diplomat_ this week, the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission highlighted this need in its report to the U.S. Congress. Having been condemned by the U.S., the E.U., Japan, South Korea, Australia, and even ASEAN to an extent, China’s ADIZ won’t be forgotten anytime soon. Going forward, China will find itself having to continue to address the ADIZ issue in its bilateral diplomacy with other major powers with interests in the East China Sea, including the United States.

One Year of ADIZ: What Next for China? | The Diplomat

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## Keel

*Chinese Coastguards have conducted patrolling in the territorial waters of Diaoyu Islands for 13 times this year*

*中国海警舰船编队今年已13次巡航钓鱼岛领海*
军事要闻中国网
2015-05-04 08:52






外交部强调，钓鱼岛自古以来是中国固有领土。中方敦促美方采取负责任的态度，恪守在有关领土主权问题上不选边站队的承诺，停止发出错误信号。

国家海洋局此前发布的《中国海洋发展报告》研判，美国亚太战略调整已经成为影响中国周边海上安全形势的最重要因素。

今年，中国钓鱼岛专题网站已正式上线，内容包括基本立场、历史依据、法律文件等，证明中国对钓鱼岛及其附属岛屿拥有无可争辩的主权。该网站由国家海洋信息中心主办，使用“www.diaoyudao.org.cn”和“www。钓鱼岛.cn”域名。目前网站已开通中、英、日文版，随后将开通法、德、西、俄、阿等其他文字版本。

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## Our friend :Pakistan

The Diaoyu Islands are Chinese!!!We all believe ！！！

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## Keel

Our friend :Pakistan said:


> The Diaoyu Islands are Chinese!!!We all believe ！！！



Not just believe we are patrolling it in celebration for the victory against barbaric jpnese facists

China patrols Diaoyu Islands to celebrate defeating Japan in WW2

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## Keel

Will the Japanese get inspired?

Former Prime Minister: Japan Should Shelve the Islands Dispute With China to Avoid A Spiral into Conflict

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## Aepsilons

Yawn. Nice pictures. Cool ya


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## Keel

Keel said:


> Not just believe we are patrolling it in celebration for the victory against barbaric jpnese facists
> 
> China patrols Diaoyu Islands to celebrate defeating Japan in WW2



Diaoyu Islands in very good hands 

China’s Massive Coast Guard Ships > ENGINEERING.com






4000 T in patrol of our territorial waters






Something like this or BIGGER?

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## kungfugymnast

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Yawn. Nice pictures. Cool ya



Nihonjin = 日本人 = Japan man 

What is your opinion on PLA took over Diaoyu Islands aka senkaku?



Keel said:


> Diaoyu Islands in very good hands
> 
> China’s Massive Coast Guard Ships > ENGINEERING.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4000 T in patrol of our territorial waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something like this or BIGGER?



The second photo, the coast guard patrol ship is really large. Why coast guard and not PLAN ships that patrol Diaoyu islands? 

Most likely to avoid tension as navy warship is a threat being too close to Japan territory.

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## Aepsilons

kungfugymnast said:


> Nihonjin = 日本人 = Japan man
> 
> What is your opinion on PLA took over Diaoyu Islands aka senkaku?




為せば成る
為さねば成らぬ何事も
成らぬは人の為さぬなりけり


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## CAPRICORN-88

Keel said:


> Will the Japanese get inspired?
> 
> Former Prime Minister: Japan Should Shelve the Islands Dispute With China to Avoid A Spiral into Conflict



At least there are still realistic folks residing in Japan. 

By either returning to the status quo or giving the island back to China, Japan would have immediately remove its security concern and can now look forward to better economic tie e.g. Toyota lost its title as the biggest car manufacturer to VW because of China's market. Will the TPP increase Japan's hare of US auto mart. IMO NO! We will wait and see whether I am right or not. Whatever China 23 million annual car sales is too significant to be lost.

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## kungfugymnast

Nihonjin1051 said:


> 為せば成る
> 為さねば成らぬ何事も
> 成らぬは人の為さぬなりけり



Nan desu ka? Taberu koto, yes enjoy the buns... lol!

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## Aepsilons

kungfugymnast said:


> Nan desu ka? Taberu koto, yes enjoy the buns... lol!



It's sweet , tongue licking good!

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## bobsm

An interesting read. Japan is defeated in 5 days, in a Rand Corp. simulation.

*How FP Stumbled Into a War With China — and Lost*

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/15...-war-with-china-and-lost/?wp_login_redirect=0

excerpt:

*



Senkakus Incident — Day 5

Meanwhile, Chinese forces continue to hammer Japanese surface vessels near the Senkakus. In less than 24 hours, one-fifth of the Japanese navy is knocked out of action and hundreds are dead. To drive home its point, China also initiates attacks on the Japanese economy, knocking out the vulnerable power grid and blasting a crucial jet-fuel refinery.

Facing massive disruption at home and the destruction of its navy, Japan again pleads for help. Tokyo makes three concrete requests: It wants the American aircraft-carrier group that it has hosted for so many years sent into the fight to help protect Japanese ships; it wants more attacks on Chinese ships; and it seeks targeted strikes on the sites used for anti-ship missiles on the Chinese mainland.

For Washington, there are only bad options on the table. “Those treaty obligations looked more important a few days ago,” Keith says.

Our gut reaction is to stop the spiral before the carnage — and the risks — expand. The first option is to tell the Japanese that the United States is not ready to stage attacks on the Chinese homeland or join Tokyo in offensive operations. Sending in the aircraft carrier, which could be hit or sunk by Chinese missiles, is also ruled out. We offer Tokyo to send U.S. submarines and aircraft into the battle zone to cover the withdrawal of its naval forces. That way, the United States can avoid an all-out war with China and stop the fighting before Japan’s naval forces are utterly decimated or its economy strangled.

That decision is “operationally sensible,” Shlapak says, but China emerges as the tactical victor. Beijing took on both the United States and Japan and won. China is now in possession of the Senkakus. Longer term, though, China may have won itself a Pyrrhic victory: Japan and other nations in Asia will likely redouble spending on defense and bandwagon against China both militarily and economically.

In any scenario, Shlapak says, “nobody comes out of it better off.”

What would have happened if we had acceded to Japanese requests? Here’s how that played out:

The United States sends humanitarian aid and disaster-response teams to Japan to bolster its homeland defense and dispatches the carrier at a safe distance in flight range of the Senkakus. It also launches targeted, precision strikes on a handful of Chinese missile sites on the coast, clearly explaining to Chinese leadership the limited nature of the measures.

Long story short, plunging deeper into the fight did not make matters easier for any of the three countries.

U.S. missiles rain down on the Chinese homeland; Japanese commercial freighters explode on the high seas; China’s shiny new navy is quickly shrinking under relentless undersea attacks. In reprisal, Chinese forces obliterate Kadena Air Base on Okinawa and take a potshot with a carrier-killer missile at the George Washington, damaging it and forcing it out of the area. The casualty toll is appalling on all sides, with thousands dead.

“You probably see where this is going,” Shlapak tells us.

The U.S. military could keep punching, hitting key Chinese naval bases, targeting China’s sole aircraft carrier, or even implementing a blockade in the South China Sea to try to strangle the Chinese economy. Nothing, though, preserves Japan’s navy or helps defend its islands. The Chinese can inflict unlimited damage on Japan.

Years of gaming such scenarios have convinced Shlapak of the importance of understanding the inherent risks in wars between great powers, rather than in the one-sided affairs that have dominated U.S. military adventures in recent decades.

“It’s like an avalanche. All you know is that it will end eventually, but you don’t know how, or why, or what the cost will be,” he says, pounding the table for emphasis. Wading into a Sino-Japanese dispute over the Senkakus is particularly fraught for the United States and doesn’t allow for any attractive outcomes.

“To get into this fight is a strategic failure of the first magnitude,” Shlapak says.

Our takeaways:

Chastened at the results, we came away with several conclusions after our quick-and-dirty foray into the East China Sea.

First, alliances can be dangerous things, as the ancient Athenians learned more than 2,000 years ago when their allies in Corcyra sucked them into the Peloponnesian War.

Second, it’s hard to put a lot of defense into the mutual defense treaty with Japan. Its ships, aircraft, and home islands are all vulnerable, even if any attacking force would suffer huge casualties. Missile defense, in particular, is exceptionally difficult — if not impossible — given China’s vast and lethal missile arsenal.

Third, China’s military advances have totally changed the game for all sides. A decade ago, Japan could have fended off any challenge in the Senkakus all by itself. Now, China has a modern navy, a vast array of ballistic and cruise missiles, an effective air force, and increasingly sophisticated drones.

Fourth, America’s super aircraft carriers are a bit of an albatross. They are vulnerable as never before to long-range strikes, especially from Chinese anti-ship missiles. But the steps needed to safely bring carriers into the fight either escalate matters (striking at Chinese missile sites) or reduce the ships’ effectiveness (by having to operate at a safe distance.) Conversely, American stealthy attack submarines are very useful operationally — but perhaps lead to more trouble at the strategic level. Ordering a submarine strike is a tempting option, perhaps too tempting; as we saw, a submarine’s risk-free ability to inflict punishment drew us into a state of war with China.

And finally, for all three countries in our scenario, nationalism is hugely powerful and potentially deadly. It sparked the initial spat, fueled each successive escalatory step, and severely constrained each nation’s available responses as the crisis escalated.

That’s why Shlapak suggested that the best way to manage a crisis in a place like the Senkakus, which can’t support any inhabitants anyway, may be to simply ignore it.

Click to expand...

*

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## anon45

This is very interesting read that I missed.

Again many anti-Americans underestimate the independence US allies have. They are not vassals by any means.

*Clinton e-mail: U.S. asked Japan to talk with China before buying Senkakus*

January 31, 2016
By KENJI MINEMURA/ Correspondent

WASHINGTON--In a private e-mail forwarded to then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a high-ranking U.S. official asked Japan to consult with China before the Japanese government put the Senkaku Islands under state ownership in September 2012.

The correspondence is among the 1,000 e-mails disclosed by the U.S. State Department on Jan. 29 in response to the controversy that Clinton was using her private e-mail server for official duties while serving as secretary of state.

The e-mail, dated Sept. 3, 2012, was written by Kurt Campbell, then U.S. assistant secretary of state, and sent to several high-ranking U.S. government officials. One of the officials forwarded the message to Clinton.

The e-mail suggests that the United States was concerned that the purchase of the islands, located in the East China Sea, would worsen relations between Japan and China, which also claims them.

It also described a high-ranking Japanese Foreign Ministry official as telling Campbell that China would likely eventually accept Japanese state ownership of the islands.

According to the e-mail, when Campbell visited Japan in August 2012, he strongly urged then Japanese Vice Foreign Minister Kenichiro Sasae (currently Japanese ambassador to the United States) and other Japanese officials to consult China in advance on state ownership of Senkaku Islands.

As for state ownership, the governments of Japan and China talked several times. However, the Chinese government strongly opposed the plan.

Campbell wrote the e-mail after he was informed by Sasae that the Japanese government would soon embark on purchasing the Senkakus from a private owner.

“The GOJ (government of Japan) has just concluded a round of deliberations (on the state ownership plan) and apparently their PRC (People’s Republic of China) counterparts were irate. Sasae, however, believes that China actually understands the necessity of these actions and will accept them,” Campbell wrote in the e-mail.

Then, the U.S. assistant secretary of state, apparently unconvinced by Sasae's belief, wrote, “I’m not so sure.”


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

anon45 said:


> This is very interesting read that I missed.
> 
> Again many anti-Americans underestimate the independence US allies have. They are not vassals by any means.
> 
> *Clinton e-mail: U.S. asked Japan to talk with China before buying Senkakus*



Nice try...you think you can take Chinese for fool? US was well aware of Japan's intention regarding the Diaoyu buying, if US didn't give the nod, Japan wouldn't dare to do that. and not only that US publicly gave Japan the assurance to be on it side in any eventual conflict with China over this island under the false pretense that it has defense treaty with Japan...

...and you did the same with Philippine by saying you have defense treaty regarding SCS. Americans dare to do that because they think their still have military edge over China, the day China reach the military parity or the way to counter US, American will have no allies to defend because they wont have any advantage to be American's allies and your so call defense treaty will be worth less than toilet paper.

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## anon45

> Nice try...you think you can take Chinese for fool? US was well aware of Japan's intention regarding the Diaoyu buying, if US didn't give the nod, Japan wouldn't dare to do that. and not only that US publicly gave Japan the assurance to be on it side in any eventual conflict with China over this island under the false pretense that it has defense treaty with Japan...
> 
> ...and you did the same with Philippine by saying you have defense treaty regarding SCS. Americans dare to do that because they think their still have military edge over China, the day China reach the military parity or the way to counter US, American will have no allies to defend because they wont have any advantage to be American's allies and your so call defense treaty will be worth less than toilet paper.



For anyone interested, here is exhibit 1


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## Place Of Space

Every month China deploy coast guard vessels to Diaoyu Islands.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Nice try...you think you can take Chinese for fool? US was well aware of Japan's intention regarding the Diaoyu buying, if US didn't give the nod, Japan wouldn't dare to do that. and not only that US publicly gave Japan the assurance to be on it side in any eventual conflict with China over this island under the false pretense that it has defense treaty with Japan...
> 
> ...and you did the same with Philippine by saying you have defense treaty regarding SCS. Americans dare to do that because they think their still have military edge over China, the day China reach the military parity or the way to counter US, American will have no allies to defend because they wont have any advantage to be American's allies and your so call defense treaty will be worth less than toilet paper.



 As told and revealed by a former Japanese diplomat, *USA has her hidden hand in every aspect of Japanese politics.* Japanese politicians who disagreed with the US administration will soon find themselves in scandal after scandals.

This former returnee from USA, former Philippines President BS Aquino was not really serving the Filipino people, he was just an obedient servant to US Administration. 

The new independence of the new Philippines President is alarming to the current USA.

So how many nations has the CIA infiltrated in ASIA so far? Vietnam???

We are know what Victoria Nurland did in Ukraine and brought it to a brink of war.

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## ahojunk

*Japan: 7 Chinese Coast Guard Ships, 230 Fishing Boats in Disputed East China Sea Waters*
*Chinese Coast Guard accompanied scores of fishermen to the waters around the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.*
By Ankit Panda
August 08, 2016

Starting Friday, Chinese Coast Guard ships, accompanied by more than two hundred fishing vessels, entered disputed waters around the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea.

According to the Japanese Foreign Ministry on Friday, Chinese Coast Guard vessels entered the 12 nautical mile territorial sea around the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands at 1:30 p.m., “navigating around” Chinese fishing vessels.

A release by the Japanese government Saturday noted that six Chinese Coast Guard vessels were accompanying “approximately 230 fishing vessels.” The statement notes that the fishing vessels were “in the surrounding waters” while the Chinese Coast Guard ships remained in the contiguous zone.

On Saturday, the Japanese government noted that instead of the situation deescalating after initial Japanese protests, a seventh Chinese Coast Guard ship entered the contiguous zone.

The Japanese Foreign Ministry protested strongly on Saturday evening, telling the Chinese embassy in Japan that “Japan cannot accept China’s activities as they are unilateral escalation that raise tensions on the ground, and requested to have the Chinese Coast Guard vessels leave the contiguous zone immediately.”

Japan released a follow-up press release on Sunday, noting that despite “repeated protests” to China, “seven Chinese Coast Guard vessels have not exited Japan’s contiguous zone surrounding the Senkaku Islands.”

Sunday’s statement notes that “two additional Chinese government vessels entered the contiguous zone,” and that “two vessels intruded into Japan’s territorial waters.” Japan has not specified which “Chinese government vessels” entered the contiguous waters around the disputed islets.

On Sunday, Japan reiterated its concern to China, noting that “the series of China’s activities are unilateral escalations that significantly raise tensions on the ground.”

When asked to comment on the incident, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying reiterated China’s position on the islands: “China has indisputable sovereignty over them and the adjacent waters.”

She added, "_The Chinese side is working to properly manage situation in the relevant waters. We strongly hope that the Japanese side will honor its principled agreement with us, deal with the current situation with a cool head instead of taking actions that may raise tension or make things complicated, and make constructive efforts for stability in relevant waters together with us."_

Earlier this summer, in a move that was perceived as highly provocative in Japan, China, for the first time, sent a naval vessel into the contiguous zone of the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

The contiguous zone is a 12 nautical mile area immediately adjacent to a territorial sea. Under international law, states are able to enforce certain immigration, customs, and other laws in the contiguous zone.

Japan controls and administers the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands, which are also claimed by China.

Outside of the East China Sea dispute with Japan, China has also deployed its coast guard alongside fishing vessels in disputed waters in the South China Sea.

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## ahojunk

*Patrols intensify around Diaoyu*
2016-08-08 08:26 | Global Times | _Editor: Li Yan_
*Japan lodges multiple protests over 'intrusion'*

China's top oceanic agency announced Sunday that two more Coast Guard ships are patrolling the waters near the Diaoyu Islands, a day after over 200 fishing boats and seven Coast Guard vessels were reportedly sailing in the region.

Analysts said the patrols are a routine measure to demonstrate China's sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands, as ties between China and Japan have been further deteriorating in the past months due to Japan's meddling in the South China Sea disputes.

Although the State Oceanic Administration admitted sending only two more ships as of press time, Japan's Kyodo News reported on Sunday that 13 Chinese government vessels, an unprecedented number, are now patrolling the waters of the Diaoyu Islands - two joined Sunday morning and four in the afternoon.

"It's normal for China to send Coast Guard vessels to the Diaoyu area to safeguard China's fishing boats, as the Diaoyu Islands are an inherent part of Chinese territory," Lü Yaodong, director of the Institute of Japanese Studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times.

On Saturday, 230 Chinese fishing boats and seven China Coast Guard vessels were spotted near the Diaoyu Islands, according to Kyodo News. Some of the vessels appeared to be equipped with guns, Kyodo News cited the Japan Coast Guard as saying.

China has sent Coast Guard vessels to patrol the disputed area at least 20 times this year, according to the State Oceanic Administration's website. But experts say it's rare that hundreds of fishing boats would sail through the area at the same time.

Zhou Yongsheng, a professor at the Institute of International Relations of China Foreign Affairs University, said the act was meant to demonstrate China's sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands and adjacent waters.

From Friday to Sunday, Japan lodged multiple protests to the Chinese Embassy in Japan as well as China's foreign ministry against the Chinese Coast Guard vessels' "intrusion," urging them to leave the waters immediately, according to the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan.

Responding to Japan's protests, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said in a statement on Saturday that "the Chinese side is working to properly manage the situation in the relevant waters."

"We strongly hope that the Japanese side will honor its principled agreement with us, and deal with the current situation with a cool head instead of taking actions that may raise tensions or complicate things," she was quoted as saying.

*Deliberate protests*

Japan on Sunday also protested to China over a surface radar which they say was found to have been installed on one of China's gas drilling platforms in the East China Sea area, Kyodo News reported, citing a Japanese government source.

The source told Kyodo News that the radar is for detecting ships and not powerful enough for military purposes, although concerns remain that China may use it as a military outpost in the future.

"[Installing the radar] is completely normal for China. Japan has no right to interfere with what China is doing on its own drilling platform in Chinese territory," Zhou said.

China has drilling platforms and foundations near the "median line" between China's coastline and that of Japan in the East China Sea.

Japan drew the "median line" as a demarcation between the two countries. China doesn't recognize the demarcation, and has proposed applying the principle of the natural prolongation of a continental shelf.

This is not the first time that Japan has protested against China's activities on the East China Sea. Earlier this month, Japan issued its annual defense white paper, and devoted over 30 pages to "irresponsible remarks" on China's national defense and China's normal and legal maritime activities in the East and South China Seas, the Xinhua News Agency reported.

China's defense ministry expressed strong opposition to the report, calling the annual document hostile to the Chinese military and deceptive to the international community.

Lü said Japan is intentionally bringing up several issues on the East China Sea at the same time. "By hyping issues involving the Diaoyu islands, Japan is escalating tensions that are already engulfing Northeast Asia and impairing the region's security environment," he told the Global Times.

"It's becoming a pattern. Whenever Japan has domestic political needs, it will bring up the East China Sea issue to serve its interests," he said.

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## ahojunk

_Look at the picture of the 2 diplomats. I can feel the coldness, lol._

--------
*Japan, China engage in war of words over disputed East China sea*
Tue Aug 9, 2016 6:13AM






_Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida (L) meets Chinese Ambassador to Japan Cheng Yonghua in Tokyo, in this photo taken by Kyodo August 9, 2016. ©Reuters_

China and Japan have stepped up a war of words in their long-running row over the sovereignty of East China Sea islands after Tokyo summoned Beijing’s ambassador to protest China’s activities in the disputed waters.

The Japanese Foreign Ministry said in a Tuesday statement that it had summoned Chinese Ambassador to Tokyo Cheng Yonghua, urging Beijing to withdraw its vessels from the waters as a measure to reduce tensions there.

Japan’s coastguard said recently that it spotted Chinese vessels swarming around the contested islets, claiming that some of the ships appeared to be armed.

China, which claims the uninhabited East China Sea islets-- known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China-- occasionally sends its coastguard vessels close to them.

Following the meeting, Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida said he told the Chinese envoy that the relations between the two countries were “deteriorating markedly,” reiterating that Beijing was not allowed to send its ships into what Tokyo considers its territorial waters around disputed East China Sea islets.

Kishida also accused China of “unilaterally” increasing tensions in the region.

In turn, the Chinese diplomat said he told Kishida that the islands were an “integral part of Chinese territory and that it is natural that Chinese ships conduct activity in the waters in question.”

Cheng also asserted that the dispute between the two sides should be resolved through diplomacy and dialogue.

The Chinese envoy was also called in by Japanese Vice Foreign Minister Shinsuke Sugiyama on Friday.

China’s Foreign Ministry said last week that the country had indisputable sovereignty over the islands and nearby waters, urging Japan to make “constructive efforts for stability” and avoid taking actions that might complicate the situation.

In its annual defense review released last week, Japan claimed that China’s activities in the East China Sea caused Tokyo to scramble warplanes to the area more than 570 times last year.

Japan has also sided with Beijing’s rivals in a separate maritime dispute between China and a number of its neighbors in the South China Sea.

Tokyo says Beijing should respect a recent international arbitration ruling, which dismissed China’s sweeping claims in the sea.

The Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled last month that China’s claims to sovereignty over the disputed areas in the sea or its resources “had no legal basis,” in a case brought by the Philippines.

However, Beijing rejects the verdict, arguing that the tribunal has no jurisdiction over the issue.

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## ahojunk

_An assessment from an Indian diplomat. He is spot on._

--------
China’s red line on South China Sea
By M K Bhadrakumar – August 9, 2016

From all indications, after warning Japan repeatedly not to interfere in the South China Sea disputes, Beijing decided enough is enough and to signal its displeasure.

Tokyo took it upon itself to go the extra league to needle Beijing by not only expressing solidarity in words (and actions) with the Southeast Asian countries on the South China Sea, but also inciting them.

Tokyo’s statement on the recent Arbitration Tribunal award was perhaps the most strongly worded, out of all countries who voiced opinions on the issue.

Only last week, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said the U.S., Japan and Australia were “fanning the flames” of regional tensions after they released a joint statement urging China not to construct military outposts or reclaim land in the disputed waters in the South China Sea.

After successfully weathering the diplomatic fallout of the Arbitration Tribunal award – recent ASEAN meet and ASEM summit didn’t say a word about it – *Beijing has turned to Japan to give Tokyo a taste of how it feels to be provoked*.

Hundreds of Chinese fishing boats with over a dozen coast guard vessels flanking them have been spotted in the weekend around the islands in the East China Sea, disputed by China and Japan, which are in the latter’s possession.

Japan also came to know about the installation of a Chinese military-grade radar on a gas platform near the median line between the two nations in the area.

Tokyo is hopping mad, of course. The Japanese foreign minister Fumio Kishida called in the Chinese ambassador Cheng Yonghua twice and is on record as conveying that Sino-Japanese ties are “significantly deteriorating”.

Ambassador Cheng insisted, however, that the islands are an integral part of China. “I told him … it is natural that Chinese ships conduct activity in the waters,” Cheng told reporters. (BBC)

China’s sense of timing is curious. On Monday a U.S. Navy guided missile destroyer USS Benford arrived in the Chinese port of Qingdao, the home port of China’s northern fleet, to hold a signal exercise with the Chinese navy.

Again, on Monday, Fidel Ramos, former Philippine President, whom President Rodrigo Duterte has designated as special envoy to China, flew into Hong Kong for talks aimed at rekindling ties with China. Ramos said, “I am just the ice breaker, as they say, to rekindle, to warm up, again, our good, friendly, neighbourly relations with China and that’s all that I have to do”. (Xinhua)

What a coincidence! Indeed, some useful conclusions can be drawn. First, Beijing will not take lightly unnecessary entanglement over its disputes in the South China Sea by outside parties such as Japan.

Second, *meddlesome third parties can expect “unnecessary side-effects”* – to borrow an expression from a commentary in the Global Times on August 9, titled India should focus on preserving good economic ties with China, rather than on the S. China Sea.

Third, it is up to countries such as Japan (or India) to do cost-benefit analysis and get rid of notions that they may have a role to play in the South China Sea disputes.

Fourth, Tokyo went out on a limb and must now face the music on its own. It is *improbable that the US or Australia is looking for a piece of action in the East China Sea* where the Chinese boats have assembled.

Finally, China is not losing sleep over the G20 summit in Hangzhou (September 4-5). Of course, China worked hard on the G20 agenda. But then, territorial dispute is a “core issue”. They’re like chalk and cheese.

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## ahojunk

*China ‘builds pier for warships’ near disputed Diaoyu Islands: sources*

*Sovereignty of the territory a source of increasing tension between Japan and China*

PUBLISHED : Friday, 19 August, 2016, 1:46pm
UPDATED : Friday, 19 August, 2016, 1:46pm

China has built a new pier for warships at a site under development as a military base near the Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea, sources close to the matter said on Friday.

By building the pier on one of the islands in the Nanji chain off the port of Wenzhou, Beijing is apparently aiming to improve its preparedness to counter Japan and the United States, both critical of China’s growing maritime assertiveness, the sources said.

The island chain is about 100km closer to the disputed islets than the main island of Japan’s Okinawa Prefecture, home to a large portion of US military bases in Japan.

The disputed small islands are controlled by Japan, which calls them the Senkaku.

China also appears keen to enhance monitoring of the air defence identification zone it declared over the sea in 2013 to fortify its territorial claims. Neither Japan nor the United States have recognised the zone.

The sources said the pier was constructed on Nanji Island, the largest in the chain, and several warships have already been seen docking there. The 70 to 80-metre long pier can also accommodate landing craft.

The islands already have an advanced radar system in place and a heliport for use by aircraft carrier-based helicopters.

Plans are under way to build a runway for military use on the island, but construction does not appear to have started, the sources said. Exercises by military aircraft were held in the area in the spring, they said.

Tensions remain high between Japan and China over theDiaoyu Islands.

Japan is increasingly concerned about Chinese government vessels’ repeated entry into Japanese waters near the chain.

A plan for the China Coastguard to build a large-scale base at Wenzhou is underway to boost support for vessels monitoring the Diaoyus.

A Japanese citizen was detained in Wenzhou in May last year and later indicted. Before his detention, the man was allegedly investigating a military facility.

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## Place Of Space

ahojunk said:


> *China ‘builds pier for warships’ near disputed Diaoyu Islands: sources*
> 
> *Sovereignty of the territory a source of increasing tension between Japan and China*
> 
> PUBLISHED : Friday, 19 August, 2016, 1:46pm
> UPDATED : Friday, 19 August, 2016, 1:46pm
> 
> China has built a new pier for warships at a site under development as a military base near the Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea, sources close to the matter said on Friday.
> 
> By building the pier on one of the islands in the Nanji chain off the port of Wenzhou, Beijing is apparently aiming to improve its preparedness to counter Japan and the United States, both critical of China’s growing maritime assertiveness, the sources said.
> 
> The island chain is about 100km closer to the disputed islets than the main island of Japan’s Okinawa Prefecture, home to a large portion of US military bases in Japan.
> 
> The disputed small islands are controlled by Japan, which calls them the Senkaku.
> 
> China also appears keen to enhance monitoring of the air defence identification zone it declared over the sea in 2013 to fortify its territorial claims. Neither Japan nor the United States have recognised the zone.
> 
> The sources said the pier was constructed on Nanji Island, the largest in the chain, and several warships have already been seen docking there. The 70 to 80-metre long pier can also accommodate landing craft.
> 
> The islands already have an advanced radar system in place and a heliport for use by aircraft carrier-based helicopters.
> 
> Plans are under way to build a runway for military use on the island, but construction does not appear to have started, the sources said. Exercises by military aircraft were held in the area in the spring, they said.
> 
> Tensions remain high between Japan and China over theDiaoyu Islands.
> 
> Japan is increasingly concerned about Chinese government vessels’ repeated entry into Japanese waters near the chain.
> 
> A plan for the China Coastguard to build a large-scale base at Wenzhou is underway to boost support for vessels monitoring the Diaoyus.
> 
> A Japanese citizen was detained in Wenzhou in May last year and later indicted. Before his detention, the man was allegedly investigating a military facility.



"The island chain is about 100km closer to the disputed islets than the main island of Japan’s Okinawa Prefecture, home to a large portion of US military bases in Japan."

The new base is about 170 km off the Diaoyu islands, aircraft needs about 10 mintues to get there.

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## hoangsa74

dave Archibald already wrote an article about how china is using the base in nanji to attack japan.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/01/more_evidence_china_preparing_to_attack_japan.html



> *This kind of refueling arrangement is done only if you are going to war. In about 1937, a Royal Air Force pilot visiting a German airbase realized that a war was coming when he saw the refuelling points around the airbase’s apron*.[\quote]


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