# Pakistan Air Force Transport



## EagleEyes

Discuss all the transport aircrafts in the Pakistan Air Force. How they can be improved, do we have enough aircrafts? Can transport aircraft be used for bombing?


----------



## Introvert

WebMaster said:


> Discuss all the transport aircrafts in the Pakistan Air Force. How they can be improved, do we have enough aircrafts? Can transport aircraft be used for bombing?



PAF has total of 29 transport aircrafts, as of 2006, which r divided in 3 categories: light transport, VIP transport, and Heavy tactical transport. For more info pls visit "http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/1107/HTML/paf/inven01.htm"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Introvert

Also visit the homepage of the above mentioned website @ "http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/1107/intro.htm", It gives u a lot of good info.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Abs

WebMaster said:


> Can transport aircraft be used for bombing?



i heard from somewhere, can't remember where that PAF can modify their C-130's to drop bombs and use it as a bomber?


----------



## Janbaz

Abs said:


> i heard from somewhere, can't remember where that PAF can modify their C-130's to drop bombs and use it as a bomber?



I thought it was to fire Babur cruise missiles. Anyways the senior members will clarify it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TexasJohn

I don't believe they can be used for bombing. I have not heard of cruise missiles launches either. But, here is what it can do:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130

I would not want to be around when the gatling gun opens up. The MAD suite also helps it provide targeting.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Keysersoze

Abs said:


> i heard from somewhere, can't remember where that PAF can modify their C-130's to drop bombs and use it as a bomber?



The only bombs that would be used would probably be of the air fuel variety. Otherwise it is a slow moving target and a waste of resources to use it any other way.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## niaz

keysersoze said:


> The only bombs that would be used would probably be of the air fuel variety. Otherwise it is a slow moving target and a waste of resources to use it any other way.



Understand PAF used C-130 to drop napalm in 1965. Canisters of napalm were simply pushed out of the door. There is however a C-130 Gunship in existence and was used in the Vietnam war.

However Hon Keyseoze is right, PAF is short of heavy lift capaccity and use of C-130's as bombers should be last resort.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Abs

it was reported that pakistan had configured a C-130 to drop a weapon it was in 1990 though

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/pakistan/nuke-chron.htm

as for bombing though, they should of course be used for transport considering the limited number of transport planes.


----------



## melb4aust

Abs said:


> it was reported that pakistan had configured a C-130 to drop a weapon it was in 1990 though
> 
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/pakistan/nuke-chron.htm



This is a pretty interesting find, C-130 as a :shocked: Bomber.


----------



## Neo

melb4aust said:


> This is a pretty interesting find, C-130 as a :shocked: Bomber.



Its been done before if I'm correct.


----------



## Muradk

C-130 has been used for bombing missions since 1965. 



















I think JANA can help us getting this complete article from the proper authorities , ( DAWN News Paper 7sept , 1999 )

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
10


----------



## falcone

Check this out:
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/future-weapons/weapons/zone1/moab-bomb.html

I urge you all to watch the videos that show this (MOAB) in action as well. (The videos are on the same site.)


----------



## Abs

using C-130's as bombers just shows you the quality and brilliance of PAF to improvise and use what they have for other purposes despite a lack of big resources.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## falcone

Here is a new development:

"WASHINGTON, May 25, 2007

The DSCA notified Congress of a possbile Foreign Military Sale to India of C-130J aircraft... [worth] $ 1, 059 million.

The Government of India has requested a possible sale of:

6 LM C-130J USAF Baseline aircraft including USAF baseline equipment..."


What does this mean for the future transport fleet of the PAF? In the rest of the article, it is stated that these C-130s will "[provide] the Indian government with *a credible special operations airlift capability that will deter agresssion in the region*, provide humanitarian airlift capability, and ensure interoperability with US forces in coalition operations." So, is India looking to enhance and possibly modernize (if it already has not done so), its spec ops forces? Finally, how will this play in India-Russia relations considering there are Russian platforms available that India has not opted for. The Russians will not be too thrilled with this deal. Also, what can this mean for Pak-Russia realtions?


----------



## ahussains

falcone said:


> Here is a new development:
> 
> "WASHINGTON, May 25, 2007
> 
> The DSCA notified Congress of a possbile Foreign Military Sale to India of C-130J aircraft... [worth] $ 1, 059 million.
> 
> The Government of India has requested a possible sale of:
> 
> 6 LM C-130J USAF Baseline aircraft including USAF baseline equipment..."
> 
> 
> What does this mean for the future transport fleet of the PAF? In the rest of the article, it is stated that these C-130s will "[provide] the Indian government with *a credible special operations airlift capability that will deter agresssion in the region*, provide humanitarian airlift capability, and ensure interoperability with US forces in coalition operations." So, is India looking to enhance and possibly modernize (if it already has not done so), its spec ops forces? Finally, how will this play in India-Russia relations considering there are Russian platforms available that India has not opted for. The Russians will not be too thrilled with this deal. Also, what can this mean for Pak-Russia realtions?



yes we have to think about the other resources like China a Russia and upto me the An70 or a IL-78 will be a nice selctions in place for the C-130 ... Any comment ?


----------



## Blackpearl

*IL-78 aerial tankers are in Pakistan.....*

At least one IL-78 is in Pakistan, opearted from Chaklala. The aircraft is flown by Russian crew. I suppose it is under going test and trial.


----------



## fatman17

Blackwater said:


> *IL-78 aerial tankers are in Pakistan.....*
> 
> At least one IL-78 is in Pakistan, opearted from Chaklala. The aircraft is flown by *Russian crew*. I suppose it is under going test and trial.



kindly provide the source because the IL-78s which are being evaluated are going to be supplied by the Ukraine.!


----------



## fatman17

ahussains said:


> yes we have to think about the other resources like China a Russia and upto me the An70 or a IL-78 will be a nice selctions in place for the C-130 ... Any comment ?



i think PAF will stick with the C-130 because it is tried and tested and PAF has the capability to provide depot level maintenance for C-130s in the middle-east and asia (sans india).
if the PAF does decide to change their transport requirement then the Alenia/LM CJ-27 Spartan - tactical transport would be a ideal choice.


----------



## Quwa

fatman17 said:


> kindly provide the source because the IL-78s which are being evaluated are going to be supplied by the Ukraine.!


The Russians are known for selling equipment through 3rd parties like Ukraine. Pakistan gave the IL-78 order in 2006, and they won't arrive until late 2008 or 2009. The 2-3 year wait makes me think these are new from Russia, but flown through Ukraine. If PAF wants more transports, it might get IL-76s as the IL-78 is mostly the same - i.e. we have infrastructure. Also, according to tphuang's blog, the Chinese will produce their version of IL-76/78 from 2012.


----------



## shehbazi2001

What I liked about C-130 was its ability to pick up agents or important cargo directly from the ground without landing, through a cable and hook on its nose. It was shown in a documentary called "Great Planes" of Discovery Channel. It was the MC-130 TALON version. It uses a Fulton Surface-to-Air recovery system. This system uses a Helium balloon for erecting the cable attached to cargo or agent to be lifted.

C-130 itself is legendary but the parachute system for delivery from altitude is not good as compared to Russian method. The method of delivering the armored and other vehicle or guns etc without shock from C-130 were not good. C-130 came at slow speed over the ground, opened its cargo door and the vehicle was ejected with open parachute. 

On the other hand the Russian method for delivering cargo from altitude is excellent. The IL-76 drops its APCs, vehicles etc at altitude, parachute is deployed and when a set altitude arrives, the rocket motors of parachute ignites, landing the cargo safely without impact or shock. 

Parachutes attached to the vehicles have rockets in them which are fired when the vehicle or cargo reaches close to the ground. It was shown in a documentary called "History of Russian Aviation".


----------



## ahussains

The Russian method is good there is no dought about that i also seen that method of delivering by C-130 but i think that the liffting system is not that good .


----------



## Sam Dhanraj

shehbazi2001 said:


> The method of delivering the armored and other vehicle or guns etc without shock from C-130 were not good. C-130 came at slow speed over the ground, opened its cargo door and the vehicle was ejected with open parachute.



You reminded me of this video where LAPES went wrong

DopZgJaWstk[/media] - Military Air Drop Bloopers


----------



## Blackpearl

why would PAF needs such systems like LAPES and 'picking off ' men & material from ground on its own C-130 fleet. what is really the significanc for us?


----------



## shehbazi2001

An Observation on the Military Cargo Aircraft.......and Passenger Airliners

This post is related to aircraft design but in fact its so much obvious that almost everyone related to or interested in aviation must have noted it.

I wanted to share my observation with the members of the forum.........

Almost ALL the military cargo aircrafts are high-wing designs and almost ALL the civil transporters are low-wing designs.

A high-wing design is one in which the wing is placed high on the fuselage.....for example look at C-130.....

For military cargo, take C-130, C-5, C-141, C-17, IL-76, An-124, CN-235, A400M etc ALL are high-wing designs. The old Bristol Freighter was also high-wing design aircraft.

For airliners, almost all Boeing and Airbus......take A380, A340, A310, A320, Boeing 747, B737, B777, B757, B727, B787, B767, B707, B717, IL-96 etc ALL are low-wing designs.

That was an observation but if someone knows the reasons behind it, it would be nice to share.


----------



## x_man

Shehbazi...

Just for discussion sake, judge the two scenarioslets say how much effort will be required to load any military vehicle onto a Boeing 777 at a fully manned ,paved tarmac .compared to.loading the same vehicle onto a C-130 at an unprepared forward military airfield somewhere in desert......in case of C-130 ,trust me, you will only need two persons and probably two minutesone person to drive and other to guide him inside the aircraft.







While we can go at lengths to compare the Hi vs Lo wing designs, the hi wing is always preferred for military aircraft such as the C-130, C-5 and C17 ,so they can achieve quick loading and unloading as you do not want the planes sitting on the ground for long periods of time as they make easy targets. The capability of "ro-ro" (roll on, roll off) loading can only be achieved in high wing aircraft.

Also, the military transport aircraft must be able to operate of unprepared landing areas...this includes gravel, sand, grass, composite mat etc...With the engines mounted higher up....there is less chance of ingestion of FOD (foreign object damage like pebbles, nuts, metal pieces or other looses objects etc)

Although the high wing is a more stable design, but somehow the low wing design suits the requirements of Civilian world(airliners etc)they only operate from prepared surfaces and BTW it is cheaper to make a low wing design which is the primary concern with civilian aircraft designers... On other hand, with military planes, cost is a secondary consideration. The primary consideration for military planes is the ability to complete the mission in shortest possible time and survive damage.

P.S Have you ever seen a bird with low wings?. .. God came up with the perfect design and we should benefit from that

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shehbazi2001

ok u mean that with a high-wing design, the fuselage is relatively lower on the ground so that loading of cargo is easy. However it can be verified from photos too. Protection of engines from ground debris etc is valid and the observation of birds having high-wing design is really interesting.


----------



## Blackpearl

Another benefit of High wing configurationis that military transport aircarft like C-5 Galaxy, C-17 Globe master , is that these aircarft can 'Kneel Down"

The nose landing gear can reduce its height from the ground and so the whole aircarft can be bent down, while loading unloading. This feature is only significant where complete nose section is lifted up and material can be loaded/unloaded from the forward ramp. Again, as engines are already at a safe height, this is a safe feature, ---> Kneeling Down

In aircraft like CN-235, C-160 and C-130 it is not required.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Super Falcon said:


> any official news that pak is getting IL 78 and if yes and how many they are going for.
> 
> and is that only use for a tanker.



sorry to say this but please stop with the useless one liners.. please spare some time researching on your desire questions before you start flooding..


----------



## ejaz007

*Pakistan Eyes Boost in Transport, Lift*
By USMAN ANSARI 
Published: 3 November 2008

ISLAMABAD - Pakistan has sought to improve its air mobility capability as international commitments and domestic operations have grown. To date, this has mainly consisted of ex-Australian C-130E Hercules transports. However, beginning next year, programs to renew and expand current abilities should begin to come to fruition.

The most high-profile aspect of Pakistan's air mobility modernization is the Pakistan Air Force Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) program. Four Il-78 Midas aircraft from the Ukraine, equipped with a three-point drogue refueling system, will introduce this capability.

Though an Air Force spokesman could not verify the exact variant on order, he did confirm it was the tanker/transport and not the pure tanker version of the Midas. 

Its 22,000-kilogram cargo capacity will bring considerable airlift capabilities, akin to the highly versatile Il-76 Candid, on which the Midas is based. The first aircraft is due to arrive early next year, he said.

The Air Force also is exploring the acquisition of tanker/transport aircraft from other sources. One reason is that the Il-78 is not equipped with a boom refueling facility, and therefore is unable to refuel the Air Force's most potent combat aircraft, the F-16. To rectify this, the Air Force is exploring the possibility of acquiring surplus U.S. KC-135 Stratotankers.

During an appearance before the U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs subcommittee on South Asia on Sept. 16, Donald Camp, principal deputy assistant secretary for South Asian affairs, stated that the United States is "finalizing a comprehensive training plan" to help Pakistan with its F-16 operations, including aerial refueling.

No clarification from American military sources, however, was forthcoming on whether this would also include surplus Stratotankers.

According to defense analyst Haris Khan of the Web-based think tank Pakistan Military Consortium, Pakistan has also examined alternatives to the KC-135. European defense group EADS "has been talking to [the Air Force] to supply Airbus A330 MRTTs. However, the [Air Force] has been insisting on an MRTT capability built on an A310, which is no longer in production." 

The reason for insistence on the A310 is Pakistan International Airline's long experience with the A310-300, he said. There may therefore be a more attractive long-term option to the KC-135.

Improvements in air mobility are not restricted to MRTTs. Pakistan is also establishing an airborne division. The Army has long sought to improve its air mobility, which has traditionally been a weak spot. The Army needs to support operations in the Siachen Glacier and Kashmir theaters of operations, in the ongoing standoff with archrival India; against al-Qaida and the Taliban on the Pakistan-Afghanistan frontier; and right down to the coastal areas.

The commitment on "the Frontier" in itself has pushed the Army to invest heavily in helicopters due to the difficult terrain. Recent acquisitions have included 24 Bell-412EPs, 10 AS 550 Fennecs, 35-plus Mi-17 Hips and several UH-1 Huey transport and utility helicopters. 

As Khan stated, however, the Army is still looking to buy more Mi-17s, plus Mi-35 Hinds, CH-47 Chinooks and one dedicated version of a gunship helicopter, to establish an airborne division. 

In connection with this, Pakistan is seeking further transport/utility types from America. According to Col. Robin Fontes, chief of the Security Assistance Office, Office of the Defense Representative at the American Embassy here, the U.S. military will shortly confer with the Pakistan Army to determine its "current and future aviation requirements. Once those requirements are defined, we will be able to recommend the most appropriate model(s) of transport/utility helicopters that meet the needs of the Pakistan Army."

The question of acquiring Chinooks is another long, drawn-out saga, as Pakistan had initially hoped to establish a heavy-lift capability through their acquisition in 1989. U.S. military sanctions in 1990, however, ended these efforts. Not only do these serve as vital force multipliers when it comes to air mobility, but also in disaster relief.

The absence of a heavy-lift capability was sorely felt in the relief operations following the earthquake that rocked the country in October 2005. U.S. Navy CH-53E Super Stallions and U.S. and British Chinooks instead did a sterling job in providing heavy-lift assistance under the wistful gaze of Pakistan's own rotary aviators.

Now, according to Khan, six stored CH-47Cs have recently been released for sale to Pakistan by Italy. It is uncertain if they will be purchased, but they currently represent Pakistan's best option of acquiring a heavy-lift capability. 

Pakistan Eyes Boost in Transport, Lift - Defense News


----------



## Super Falcon

if we have a acces of russian arms from ukraine we must consider mi 35 hind it best of the best and proven its worth and it is low cost and many countried around the world uses it including some from europe


----------



## Super Falcon

some MI 35 will be good for gunship role for our army


----------



## TOPGUN

Any actual pic of our IL-78 yet?? and any news on the kc-135 ??


----------



## Najam Khan

TOPGUN said:


> Any actual pic of our IL-78 yet?? and any news on the kc-135 ??



Brother in these days with tension on the border any friendly trying to capture iL-78's pictures will be considered as agent from across the border...so right now its very difficult


----------



## imiakhtar

Salam.

In my opinion, the major weak link in the PAF at the moment is logistics. A US military report describe the Pakistan air force as suffering from a 'long-term airlift shortfall'.

Currently the C-130 forms the backbone of the PAF transport fleet with 20-30 aircraft, all of which are the earliest models. Many of these aircraft are 30+ years old, and both airframe and powerplant will have amassed a lot of cycles and hours. During their service, they have seen little in the way of upgrade apart from the basic necessities of overhaul at PAC Kamra.

The C-130 has a role that no other aircraft in the PAF fleet can perform. It can take off from short unprepared runways, whether they be in the mountains of the north or the deserts of baluchistan whilst carrying a 20 ton payload. It has proved its worth time and time again, ferrying supplies to earthquake hit zones, flooded areas, and when the need has taken it, as a bomber!

Despite the crucial role the transport aircraft plays in maintaining logistical support for troops an civilians, the Pakistan govt. and in my opinion the Air force have neglected and even ignored the need for a replacement and have instead focused on the offensive/defensive capability. The last transport aircraft to join the PAF was the C-235. This aircraft can barely carry 4 tons, and even then only 4 were ordered!

Some may say, that the IL-78 with fill this niche in its dual role as air refueler and cargo. Incorrect. The IL-78 lacks the flexibility the C-130 offers. It requires longer runways and has longer turn around times. Even so, the IL-78 the PAF will receive are, surprise surprise used airframes!

In order to fill this gap, the PAF needs to prioritise acquiring transport aircraft in order to meet this shortfall, even if that means putting the J-10 on hold.(Not the F-16. That's too important!)

What are the options?

1. More C-130. New-built C-130s are out of the question. They have a fly-away cost of $40m. However, Pakistan could try and persuade the US to extend support and spares through the Excess defence Articles program, seeing how the US is in the process of acquiring newer C-130s and C-17s. Being an "ally" in the "war on terror" we should be able to twist her arm and get a good deal.

2. AN-70. An aircraft like this would be ideal. 40 ton payload, it would do everything plus more than the c-130. However, it's still under development, and considering the financial constraints the Pak govt is facing, this is not on.

3. A400M. Engine problems. Suffering long-term delays. Very capable but very expensive. Ruled out.

4. C-235. Would have an advantage over others due to commonality. However limited payload, makes this a weak alternative.

5. C-295. good range/payload capabilities and it's smaller variant is already in service. Good price. Still not good enough uplift capabilities. (P.S Should the crap hit the fan and you have engine problems, you can easily strip the Pratts off PIA ATR42s ;-) ) 

6.C-27J. Excellent price and short takeoff performance. Can also lift slightly more than the C-295. However still a big range/payload gap between this and C-130.

I haven't included any jet powered transport purely because of the cost in terms of maintenance and acquisition. They also generally tend to be more susceptible to FOD and have poorer short field performance.

In conclusion, PAF should try and go for excess C-130s from the US as a short-term replacement of the work horses already in service due to commonality and minimal training and maintenance costs. If not possible then a dozen of C-27J or C-295 would be ideal.

Your comments, opinions are welcome.

I'll stop dreaming now!

P.S I just noticed that in the past 2 years, this thread has had just 33 replies, many of which are totally off topic. Goes to show the importance of logistics in eyes of the public. Compare that to the F-16/JF-17 threads. Shame really :-(

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zob

imiakhtar...well i agree with u entirely...cuz i guess our airforce neglects a major part of any capable fighting force and that is logistical airlifting!! but the problem seems to be that we are already lagging behind in fighter acquisations....we missed the whole decade without any significant purchase of any type for our airforce....and a decade in aviation is like a century....on the other hand i believe that india had a very fruitful 90s....and we are playing catch up....the problem is having limited resources means u have 2 compromise on something....if we compromise on fighters it makes us look weak to our enemies however if we compromise on logistics we face a logistical nightmare that our enemies have experienced in the last decade....so i guess our military think tanks are trying to the best of there capability to use limited resources fruitfully...and u have 2 understand one thing all our CAS are ex fighter pilots...and a fighter pilot will never understand that logistics is equally as important... ok maybe i might be giving my opinion but i guess this might be somewhat true....


----------



## hj786

imiakhtar said:


> Salam.
> 
> In my opinion, the major weak link in the PAF at the moment is logistics. A US military report describe the Pakistan air force as suffering from a 'long-term airlift shortfall'.
> 
> 
> Despite the crucial role the transport aircraft plays in maintaining logistical support for troops an civilians, the Pakistan govt. and in my opinion the Air force have neglected and even ignored the need for a replacement and have instead focused on the offensive/defensive capability. The last transport aircraft to join the PAF was the C-235. This aircraft can barely carry 4 tons, and even then only 4 were ordered!
> 
> Some may say, that the IL-78 with fill this niche in its dual role as air refueler and cargo. Incorrect. The IL-78 lacks the flexibility the C-130 offers. It requires longer runways and has longer turn around times. Even so, the IL-78 the PAF will receive are, surprise surprise used airframes!
> 
> In order to fill this gap, the PAF needs to prioritise acquiring transport aircraft in order to meet this shortfall, even if that means putting the J-10 on hold.(Not the F-16. That's too important!)


w.salaam, great post sir! 
I do agree that transport aircraft seem to be being overlooked, but transport aircraft cannot defend Pakistan's airspace! I disagree that J-10 should be put on standby. If anything, F-16 and Erieye should be put on standby - there are Chinese equivelants being built for PAF as we speak.

I think PAF are waiting for China to have a good transport ready, the PLA are also in need of one.
PAF have already ordered the KJ-200 AEW&C system, which should be based on the Shaanxi Y-8 cargo aircraft: http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/airlift/y8.asp
I think PAF should procure this aircraft due to commonality with the KJ-200 (designated ZDK-03 by PAF). Another option is the Y-9: http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/airlift/y9.asp This is a "substantially redesigned" Y-8 currently in development. PAF may be waiting for this aircraft to finish development, it is bigger than Y-8 and has more cargo space so it is more suitable as a cargo aircraft than the Y-8.


----------



## Zob

how many transpot aircraft does the PAF have and our we buyig any new ones....or r we upgrading any of our C-130s rom the 60s era???


----------



## Zarbe Momin

For paratroopers C-235 is a better plate form & for cargo Y-9 is good for Pakistan Army and PAF.


----------



## Prince_of_Mistery

Hi,

Could Some one please Tell me how many C-130 pakistan operates and do they have orders or wishes to purchase any more.

Cheers


----------



## Myth_buster_1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TOPGUN

Growler thanks again for the great videos!!


----------



## mean_bird

*'Avionic upgrade of C-130 progressing'*

ISLAMABAD-A graduation ceremony was held at Transport Conversion School (TCS) Pakistan Air Force Base, Chaklala.
Air Marshal Hifazat Ullah Khan, Vice Chief of the Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force was the chief guest on the occasion. The 2nd Multi Engine Course, 28th Navigation Course and 19th Flight Engineers Course graduated on the occasion.

Two Nigerian Officers of 19th C-130 Aircraft Commander Course also completed their training successfully. Speaking on the occasion, the chief guest said, Airpower plays a major role in determining and projecting national power. During war, the air transport component of air power has an extremely critical role to play. Especially, for air forces with limited resources and large frontiers to defend, the tactical transport operations constitute a force multiplier.
Rapid deployment of air assets of a tactical air force, from one theatre of war to another, ensures effective and efficient utilisation of its war potentials.

He further said, The ongoing up gradation of PAFs transport element speaks of the weightage given to this all-important aspect by the Air Staff.*The avionics up grade of the C-130 aircraft is progressing at a good pace. Induction of IL-78 Tanker and Transport aircraft is about to materialise. In order to provide a constant stream of well-trained aircrew to fully assimilate this phenomenal expansion, the role and task of TCS would enhance manifold.*I am sure that TCS will uphold its rich tradition of training aircrew inline with the highest standards of PAF.

Later, Air Marshal Hifazat Ullah Khan awarded certificates and trophies to graduating aircrew. Best performance trophy in second multi-engine Course went to Flying Officer Salman Safdar Cheema, best performance in 28th Navigation Course was awarded to Pilot Officer Imad Tariq and trophy for Best performance in19th flight engineers course was given to Senior Technician Abdul Qadir.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Kamakazi 69

Why do the Indians get to have the C-130 J?
Maybe some of the older Ilyushin and some of the prop. Antonovs could also do the job?


----------



## Arsalan

Kamakazi 69 said:


> Why do the Indians get to have the C-130 J?
> Maybe some of the older Ilyushin and some of the prop. Antonovs could also do the job?



perhaps it is a matter of setting there foot firm in the US market!
with so many deals with the US they will come into a position to force the americans to support them in ceratin matters or atleast turn a blind eye!

regards!


----------



## Kamakazi 69

Well yeah, but the C-130, especially the newer 'J's are class beaters.
Although the Indians are pretty much happy with what they have.
Their tactical transport roles are fulfilled by the Antonov 'Curl' series, locally produced under the name 'Sutlej'.

They also have the options of multiple Ilyushins that they already have experience with like the IL-78, which is an awesome machine.

They also have Hawker Siddeley, which is a bit old but hey, its still doing the job.

They also have the Dornier 228, a small utility aircraft. Both the Hawker and the Dornier have excellent STOL capabilities (because they are prop. driven).

Coming back to the PAF, the only option we have is to get a couple of older Ilyushins cheap from third parties, or older C-130s. AND since the Americans are planning on replacing the AC-130 Spectre gunship, I'm pretty sure the PAF will be interested in a close-air support platform since we are retiring the A-5s soon.


----------



## Arsalan

Air to Air refueling tanker!


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

arsalanaslam123 said:


> Air to Air refueling tanker!



whats this arsalan? no image buddy!


----------



## Arsalan

well i cannot understand but this is not being displayed,
perhaps some problem with source adree.
i will like to find it from other source and then post it!!

regards!


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Yesterday i talked to flt LT from chaklala air base and asked him about the IL-78 story... he did tell me that 2 were here for only evaluation and testing purpose and both were returned back.. how ever PAF will lease 4 in near future.


----------



## Arsalan

lease???
are you talking about those four that we have been listening about since a few months now!! will they be comming on lease??
i guess the previous reports were PAF purchasing four Il-78, i hope the ones you mentioned are other then those,, are they??

regards!


----------



## Arsalan

well growler one more think,,
can you kindly post further info in the following thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...irborne-refullers-paf-chief-2.html#post486331
there are many other members who will love to know the answer!

regards!


----------



## Super Falcon

India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has summarily cancelled the INR48 billion (USD1.06 billion) tender for six multirole tanker transports (MRTTs) for the Indian Air Force (IAF), for which the EADS-built Airbus Military A330 MRTT was the preferred choice.

In 2008 the IAF had recommended the A330 MRTT over the rival Russian Ilyushin Il-78, of which it acquired six in 2004 for INR8 billion.

However, ignoring its evaluation following years of extended trials, the MoD dispatched a cryptic letter to EADS in New Delhi on 4 January withdrawing the tender, which IAF sources indicated was on the 'verge' of closure.

MoD sources said the MRTT requirement would now be retendered, resulting in interminable delays.

"It will now take many more years to shortlist another MRTT unless the MoD insists we acquire the Il-78s against our better judgement," an IAF officer said, declining to be identified.

The terminated tender required Airbus to deliver the first A330 MRTT to the IAF within three years of signing the deal and the remaining five within 15 months thereafter.

EADS officials in Delhi declined to comment on the tender's withdrawal, but defence industry sources said "vested interests" had influenced the federal Cabinet meeting on 29 December 2009 that decided to cancel the acquisition of the badly needed MRTTs.

Military sources said that, despite entreaties not to do so by the IAF, Defence Minister A K Antony agreed to cancel the MRTT purchase after the federal finance ministry raised objections on grounds of the A330's high cost



million dollar deal and party of indian airforce has been spoiled by airbus


----------



## Super Falcon

Company achieved (Airbus Military) recently, the first flights of multiple transfer functions (A400M) successfully and are ready to perform operational tasks and humanity. The plane is larger than conventional aircraft and more flexible. It relies on an elaborate technology professionals from civil airspace to fly faster, farther and carry the most useful. Used on the plane (A400M) dual technology gives pilots the advanced capabilities not currently exist on board the other aircraft in this category. Has been designed according to standards adopted for the area of civil air and, when necessary according to the requirements of military specifications. Used this platform the latest technology used in aircraft company (Airbus) Civil, which includes a glass cockpit and side-stick controller to operate the flight control cables. Will be used by pilots in the aircraft (A400M) screens with a raised as a basic flight instruments enhanced large multi-screen display functions and enhanced in some models based vision. The company (Thales) are the main suppliers of systems, screens in the cockpit aircraft (A400M). Can be found also in the advanced technology avionics system in the plane, which covers all the requirements of navigation and flight controls and electrical systems and processing systems, such as beneficiaries doors. Systems include the company (Thales) a large percentage of the overall electronics systems on board the aircraft (A400M). Therefore plays a key role in launching the drone in the market. He has served about 300 employees in a company (Thales) annually on the development of systems on board the plane (A400M) since the launch of the program in 2005. Solution provides the company (Thales) innovative flight crews with all the data they need him on the plane flight, and has provided the company also Likened to a full flight crew training aircraft (A400M), which is the first military aircraft equipped with a built-in avionics design ready (IMA - modular) which constitutes a major technical development of global importance. Developed a compact avionics for the aircraft originally (A380), was later adapted specifically to suit the specific requirements of the aircraft (A400M), which have been adapted to meet the military requirements of resistance to the highest levels of vibration and promote harmony electric and magnetic system of protection against lightning. The integrated avionics design ready (IMA) a quantum leap technologically innovative and compatible with all computing designs ready on board and able to support different uses. The integrated control system screen display (CDS), designed by the company (Thales), on board the plane (A400M), is for the first time the use of interactive screens and can be re-designed military transport plane on the other. The designed control system screen display (CDS) for the flexibility, features eight large screens measuring 68 inches interactive work Balblor liquid (LCD) is consistent with the navigation (NVG) and derived from the system has been developed for aircraft (A380


----------



## Super Falcon

The Ilyushin IL-78 air-to-air refuelling tanker aircraft is a four-engine tanker principally used for in-flight refuelling. It was designed and developed on the basis of a similar predecessor, the IL-76, and has the Nato reporting name Midas. The maiden flight of IL-78 took place on 26 June 1983 and the aircraft entered into service in 1984.About 53 aircraft are currently operational worldwide.

The IL-78 aircraft can refuel a maximum of four planes simultaneously on the ground. It can also be used as a military transport aircraft for air drop and air landing of cargo and crew.

IL-78 variants

The IL-78 has five variants, namely IL-78T, IL-78M, IL-78ME, IL-78MKI, and IL-78MP.

IL-78T is an alternative version of the IL-78 primarily used for holding all cargo handling equipment and convertible freight.

Another variant, the IL-78M, is a consecrate tanker aircraft designed to perform only refuelling operations without being able to be converted into transport aircraft. It is equipped with three permanent fuselage tanks. The IL-78M took its maiden flight on 7 March 1987.

"The IL-78 aircraft can be used as a military transport aircraft for air drop and air landing of cargo and crew."The IL-78ME is an export version of IL-78M.

The IL-78MKI is a tailor-made variant of IL-78M and is equipped with Israeli fuel-transferring systems. These aircraft were deployed by the Indian Air Force (IAF) and can refuel six to eight Sukhoi Su-30MKIs in a single operation. The variant took its maiden flight on 11 January 2003.

The IL-78MP is a multipurpose aerial-refuelling tanker or transport aircraft. It is fitted with removable fuel tanks in the cargo hold and UPAZ refuelling pods. These aircraft are deployed by the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) and can be easily converted to transport aircraft by removing the fuel tanks.

Midas orders and deliveries

In December 2008, the PAF signed an agreement with Ukraine to procure four IL-78 refuelling aircraft equipped with Russian-designed UPAZ refuelling pods.

The first IL-78 aircraft was delivered in December 2009 with the remaining three scheduled for delivery in mid 2010.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) placed an order for six IL-78s in 2003. The first refuelling aircraft equipped with Israeli-made aerial refuelling pods was delivered to IAF in March 2003. The IL-78 has a total fuel carrying capacity of 110,000kg.

The deliveries to IAF were completed in 2004.

IL-78 development

The IL-78 is derived from the IL-76. It was designed and developed by Ilyushin Aviation Complex, Russia to meet the requirements of Russian Air Force.

The aircraft was developed as part of the tanker project in 1982 to enhance the transferable fuel load of the earlier version IL-76. The IL-78 was developed as a three point air-to-air probe and drogue tanker aircraft and can deliver fuel at the rate of 900l to 2,200l a minute.

The new-generation aircraft (IL-78) is equipped with two removable 18,230l fuel tanks installed in the freight hold affording a transferable load of 85,720kg (188,584lb) with hold tanks and 57,720kg (126,984lb) without hold tanks as compared with the IL-76's transferable fuel load of 10,000kg. It is also fitted with a fuel jettison system at the wing tips.

The IL-78M variant is fitted with an additional freight hold tank on the fuselage section. It has increased the transferable fuel to 105,720kg (233,070lb) and the maximum take-off weight (MTOW) to 210,000kg to strengthen the wing torsion box. All cargo doors and cargo handling equipment were removed from the aircraft, reducing the structural weight by 5,000kg. Out of the total 138,000kg cargo, only 105,720kg is transferable.

A convertible refuelling tanker aircraft, the IL-78MK is developed based on the IL-78M. The IL-78MK can refuel three types of aircraft simultaneously in air or four aircraft on the ground using traditional refuelling tubes extending from the cargo hold.

The IL-78MK-90 is derived from IL-78MK. It is powered by PS-90A-76 turbofan engine, which has increased the cruise speed to 850km/h. The take-off and landing distances of the IL-78MK-90 are 1,550m and 40m respectively.

Refuelling

The primary air fuel transfer method is done through the UPAZ-1A (Il-78) or UPAZ-1M (Il-78M) refuelling units equipped to the outer wings and rear fuselage controlled by an operator located at the flight engineer's station in the cockpit. The receiver's aircraft is equipped with homing radar behind a broad flat aft-facing radome, which facilitates the efficient refuelling process.

"The IL-78 aircraft can refuel a maximum of four planes simultaneously on the ground."The IL-78 is fitted with wing-tip hose and drogue air refuelling pods. The receiving aircraft approaches the tanker and its probe makes contact with a hose reeled out and trailed from the tanker.

Inside the refuelling pods, a collapsible funnel-shaped drogue is attached to a hose, which is reeled out to trail behind the wing of the aircraft. The hose is fitted with a constant tension spring to give stability while it is extended.

IL-78 cockpit

The IL-78 has a glass cockpit that features five seats for two pilots, a communication officer, a navigator and a flight engineer. The two pilots sit at the front of the cockpit and just behind it is a seat reserved for the flight engineer. The outer corner of the flight engineer's seat is meant for the communication officer. One deck below the glass nose is the navigator's chair.

Avionics

The avionics of the IL-78 include an integrated (automated) flight control and navigation system with a compass system, ground surveillance radar, a central digital computer, an automatic monitoring (AMS) and automatic flight control system (AFCS), a short-haul radio navigation and landing system, an identification friend or foe transponder (IFF), an optical / infrared aiming sight and a ground collision warning system (GCWS).

Other avionics installed in the aircraft include distance measuring equipment (DME), dual very-high-frequency (VHF) navigation / communication and X-band colour weather radar in the nose.

It is also fitted with a traffic collision avoidance system (TCAS), a global positioning system (GPS), a cockpit voice recorder / flight data recorder (CVR/FDR), an instrument landing system (ILS) and a tactical aid for navigation (TACAN) system.

Cargo

Six crew and up to 138,000kg cargo can be carried on the cargo deck above the refuelling systems.

Engine

The IL-78 is powered by four Aviadvigatel D-30 KP turbofan engines. Each engine can produce a maximum take-off thrust of 118kN. It is a two-shaft, low-bypass turbofan engine equipped with two spool compressor and mixed flow.

The D-30 KP turbofan engine is primarily used for short-haul airplanes for passenger transportation. The length and fan tip diameter of the engine are 3.98m and 1.05m respectively.

IL-78 performance

The IL-78 can fly at a maximum speed of 850km/h. The range and service ceiling of the aircraft are 7,300km and 12,000m respectively. The aircraft weighs around 72,000kg and the maximum take-off weight is 210,000kg



this crap only refuel 4 aircraft dammit american one refuel around 20 to 30 aircrafts


----------



## Sapper

Super Falcon said:


> this crap only refuel 4 aircraft dammit american one refuel around 20 to 30 aircrafts



Dear,

1. American refuelers can refuel max 20~30 planes in a single flight ... correct, although its bit of a stretch, but nevertheless correct. But so can IL78, because with 80,000kg+ of transferable load, if divided equally among 20 planes comes to be 4,000kg+ fuel per aircraft, if divided among 30 planes comes out to be 2,667kg+ fuel per aircraft, which is almost the entire fuel capacity of F16/Mirage3-5/JF17 class single engined fighter. The transferable fuel capacity is more than sufficient. And by the way 32 aircraft constitute 2 complete squadrons (almost) and refueling 2 squadrons is hell of a deal.

2. If you think that the figure of 3~4 refuelable aircrafts being discussed is the "total" number of planes to be fueled in a single flight, you will be shocked to know that its actually the simultaneous refuel capacity, meaning 3 aircraft can simultaneously hook on and refuel at a given time. Once they get their fuel, they disengage and another 3 planes hook on and quench their thirst, so on and so forth until tanker is empty at about 25~30th plane.

3. And, If you mean that American Boom Style Configuration allows for 20~30 refueling aircrafts simultaneously, your mental checkup is pending and if you wish i can recommend some very good Psychiatrists. Boom style refueling only allows for 1 aircraft refueling at one time, but due to compressed refueling, the fuel transfer is very fast.

Regards,
Sapper


----------



## Wingman

Sam Dhanraj said:


> You reminded me of this video where LAPES went wrong
> 
> YouTube - Military Air Drop Bloopers



I really enjoyed watching the video


----------



## Wingman

x_man said:


> Shehbazi...
> 
> Just for discussion sake, judge the two scenarioslets say how much effort will be required to load any military vehicle onto a Boeing 777 at a fully manned ,paved tarmac .compared to.loading the same vehicle onto a C-130 at an unprepared forward military airfield somewhere in desert......in case of C-130 ,trust me, you will only need two persons and probably two minutesone person to drive and other to guide him inside the aircraft.
> 
> While we can go at lengths to compare the Hi vs Lo wing designs, the hi wing is always preferred for military aircraft such as the C-130, C-5 and C17 ,so they can achieve quick loading and unloading as you do not want the planes sitting on the ground for long periods of time as they make easy targets. The capability of "ro-ro" (roll on, roll off) loading can only be achieved in high wing aircraft.
> 
> Also, the military transport aircraft must be able to operate of unprepared landing areas...this includes gravel, sand, grass, composite mat etc...With the engines mounted higher up....there is less chance of ingestion of FOD (foreign object damage like pebbles, nuts, metal pieces or other looses objects etc)
> 
> Although the high wing is a more stable design, but somehow the low wing design suits the requirements of Civilian world(airliners etc)they only operate from prepared surfaces and BTW it is cheaper to make a low wing design which is the primary concern with civilian aircraft designers... On other hand, with military planes, cost is a secondary consideration. The primary consideration for military planes is the ability to complete the mission in shortest possible time and survive damage.
> 
> P.S Have you ever seen a bird with low wings?. .. God came up with the perfect design and we should benefit from that



Thanks a Million X Man, you elaborated superbly


----------



## Wingman

CN235... A high winged aircraft


----------



## Wingman




----------



## Wingman

CN235... Cockpit

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Wingman

CN235..


----------



## ice_man

dreamer said:


> CN235... Cockpit



GREAT PIC BRO WAS WONDERING HOW THE COCKPIT OF OUR CN235s look like! by the way i heard the plane is just too damn slow compared to our C-130s!


----------



## Wingman

Specifications (CN-235-100)


General characteristics
Crew: two, pilot and co-pilot
Capacity: up to 45 passengers
Length: 21.40 m (70 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 25.81 m (84 ft 8 in)
Height: 8.18 m (26 ft 10 in)
Wing area: 59.1 m&#178; (636 ft&#178
Empty weight: 9,800 kg (21,605 lb)
Loaded weight: 15,500 kg (16,500 kg Military load) (34,172 lb (36,376 lb))
Max takeoff weight: 15,100 kg (33,290 lb)
Powerplant: 2&#215; General Electric CT7C turboprop, 1,395 kW (1,750 bhp) each
Performance
*Maximum speed: 509 km/h (317 mph)*
Range: 5,003 km with max fuel / 2,870 km with 4,000 kg payload (3,108 miles with max fuel / 1,783 miles with 8,818 lb payload)
Service ceiling: 9,145 m (30,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 542 m/min (1,780 ft/min)


----------



## Wingman

Overview C130J


The new C-130J Hercules II incorporates state-of-the-art technology to reduce manpower requirements by 38 percent, lower operating and support costs by 35 percent, and provide life cycle cost savings of 15 percent over earlier C-130 models. The C-130J also climbs faster and higher &#8212; 14 minutes to 28,000 feet (8,534m); flies farther at a higher cruise speed &#8212;* 2,430 nm (4,500km) at 450 mph (724km/h);* and can takeoff and land in a shorter distance &#8212; 1,950 feet (594m).

Features

Major improvements include: new turboprop engines with six-bladed, all composite propellers, digital autopilot, fully-integrated digital avionics, color multifunctional LCD and head-up displays, dual INS/GPS navigation systems, mission planning system, low power color radar, and digital moving map display.

Cockpit - The C-130J is crewed by two pilots and a loadmaster. The new glass cockpit features four multifunction liquid crystal displays for flight control and navigation systems. Each pilot has a Flight Dynamics head up display (HUD). The dual mission computers operate and monitor the aircraft systems and advise the crew of status.

The cockpit is fitted with the Northrop Grumman low power color radar display. The map display shows digitally stored map image data. The C-130J is equipped with a Honeywell dual embedded Global Positioning System/Inertial Navigation System (GPS/INS), an enhanced traffic alerting and collision avoidance system (E-TCAS), a ground collision avoidance system, SKE2000 station keeping system and an Instrument Landing System (ILS).

The C-130J's integrated digital technology provides the capability to airdrop in instrument conditions without zone markers, as a baseline feature of the aircraft. When the high resolution ground mapping capability of the APN-241 Low Power Color Radar is coupled with the dual INS/GPS and digital mapping systems, the C-130J provides single-ship or formation all-weather aerial delivery. This means the entire J-model fleet will be all-weather airdrop capable.

Radar - The Northrop Grumman MODAR 4000 color weather and navigation radar is installed in the upward hinged dielectric radome in the nose of the aircraft. The weather radar has a range of 250 nautical miles (463km).

Cargo Compartment - The cargo bay of the C-130J has a total usable volume of over 4,500 cubic feet (127.4 cubic meters) and can accommodate loads up to 37,216 pounds (16,881kg), for example three armored personnel carriers, five 463L-type pallets (plus a ramp pallet for baggage), 74 litters (stretchers), 92 fully-equipped troops or 64 paratroops. The bay is equipped with cargo handling rollers, tie-down rings, stowage containers and stowage for troop seats.

Countermeasures - The Lockheed Martin/Alliant Defense AN/AAR-47 missile warning system uses electro-optic sensors to detect missile exhaust and advanced signal processing algorithms and spectral selection to analyze and prioritize threats. Sensors are mounted near the nose just below the second cockpit window and in the tail cone.

The Lockheed Martin AN/ALR-56M radar warning receiver is a superheterodyne receiver operating in the 2 to 20 GHz bands. A low band antenna and four high band quadrant antennae are installed near the nose section below the second window of the cockpit and in the tail cone.

The Tracor AN/ALE-47 countermeasures system is capable of dispensing chaff and infrared flares in addition to the POET and GEN-X active expendable decoys. The Lockheed Martin AN/ALQ-157 infrared countermeasures system generates a varying frequency-agile infrared jamming signal. The infrared transmitter is surface mounted at the aft end of the main undercarriage bay fairing.

Engines - The C-130J is equipped with four Allison AE2100D3 turboprop engines each rated at 4,591 shaft horsepower (3,425 kW). The all-composite six-blade R391 propeller system was developed by Dowty Aerospace. The engines are equipped with full authority digital electronic control (FADEC) by Lucas Aerospace. An automatic thrust control system (ATCS) optimizes the balance of power on the engines allowing lower values of minimum control speeds and superior short-airfield performance.

Fuel Capacity - The aircraft can carry a maximum internal fuel load of 45,900 pounds (20,820kg). An additional 18,700 pounds (8,482kg) of fuel can be carried in external underwing fuel tanks. The refueling probe installed on the center of the fuselage has been relocated on the C-130J to the port side, over the cockpit.

C-130Js will be delivered as weather reconnaissance (WC), electronic combat (EC), and tanker (KC) configured aircraft.

C-130J-30

The standard C-130J has essentially the same dimensions as the C-130E/H but the J-30 (stretched version) is 15 feet (4.6m) longer. The J-30 incorporates two extension plugs, one forward and one aft. The forward plug is 100 inches (254cm) long while the rear plug is 80 inches (203cm) for a total of 15 feet (4.6m). With its 3,000 nautical mile (5,556km) range, increased speed, and air refueling capability, it complements the C-5/C-17 airlift team. The J-30 can work in the strategic, as well as tactical or intratheater, environment. The J-30 can be an effective force multiplier in executing the U.S. Army Strategic Brigade Airdrop (SBA). The J-30 can airdrop 100&#37; of the SBA requirement. No longer is it necessary to expend scarce heavy lift resources on strategic contingency requirements. Whether it's a channel, special airlift, training, or contingency airdrop mission, the J-30 can handle it all at a significantly reduced cost.

The stretched C-130J-30 can carry seven 463L-type pallets (plus a ramp pallet for baggage), 97 litters, 16 CDS (Container Delivery System) bundles, 128 fully-equipped troops or 92 paratroopers.

The C-130J-30 AEW&C is based on the stretched variant of the Lockheed C-130J Hercules II, which features new engines and digital flight station for two pilots. The C-130J-30 AEW&C is fitted with the AN/APS-145 on pylons above the rear fuselage of the aircraft. A tactical command center and crew rest module is fitted into the cargo compartment to contain seven operator consoles and the Northrop Grumman (ESID) Group II+ mission system derived from the E-2C Hawkeye. Lockheed Martin have teamed with Northrop Grumman (ESID) and Transfield Defence Systems of Australia for the C-130J AEW&C.

Records

A Lockheed Martin flight crew, flying a production-standard, unmodified C-130J Hercules transport, claimed 50 world aeronautical records in two distinct aircraft categories. The records were set in four flights on two days, and broke 16 existing world marks and established standards in 34 other categories where there had been no previous sanctioned attempt.


----------



## ice_man

@dreamer we are not getting Js we are getting Es & yes like i thought the CN235 is slower! i have heard of a case where a CN235 left an hour before the C-130 from Islamabad & when it landed and came to a halt in karachi! the C-130 was on landing approach!


----------



## Dark Angel

*C130J*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ice_man

this is sad in 3 years just 66 posts on this thread!! shows how we neglect our main heart of war! OUR transport! which by the way is the pivotal point in case of war which clearly decides the fate of war! due to how quick you can deploy!

anyways can someone please tell me which Variant of C130 PAF is currently using after all the upgrades? and how many are in active service!


----------



## ice_man

sorry repeated post!!


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Well compare that to the C17's India is getting!! 

We need to bloster our Transport fleet with more C130's ( Possibly J versions)to support rapid deployment in the face of the "Cold Start" doctrine of India and facing a possible road and rail cut below Sadiqabad in the event of war! The only solution would be to support the south through an air bridge via Quetta.

Furthermore, amid reports of raising a brigade plus sized rapid reaction force the need to acquire substantial air transport assets is the need of the hour.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mani2020

Aamir Hussain said:


> Well compare that to the C17's India is getting!!
> 
> We need to bloster our Transport fleet with more C130's ( Possibly J versions)to support rapid deployment in the face of the "Cold Start" doctrine of India and facing a possible road and rail cut below Sadiqabad in the event of war! The only solution would be to support the south through an air bridge via Quetta.
> 
> Furthermore, amid reports of raising a brigade plus sized rapid reaction force the need to acquire substantial air transport assets is the need of the hour.



India is also getting 6 C-130J transport aircrafts

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Parashuram1

Mani2020 said:


> India is also getting 6 C-130J transport aircrafts


You could always consider Airbus A400 M for future modernization.


----------



## Mani2020

Parashuram1 said:


> You could always consider Airbus A400 M for future modernization.



A 400M is very costly as compared to C-130j ,A single A-400 cost ~200million dollars where as a C-130j costs 62 million dollars so you can see there is a hell of difference b/w their prices


----------



## AVIAN

Mani2020 said:


> A 400M is very costly as compared to C-130j ,A single A-400 cost ~200million dollars where as a C-130j costs 62 million dollars so you can see there is a hell of difference b/w their prices



Cost alone isn't the single determining factor in the choice of modern Airlifter. A-400M is proposed to replace C-130 type transporter because of its increased Payload, Range and Endurance.


----------



## Mani2020

AVIAN said:


> Cost alone isn't the single determining factor in the choice of modern Airlifter. A-400M is proposed to replace C-130 type transporter because of its increased Payload, Range and Endurance.



For countries with low budget price factor is one of the main driver for selecting anything,also in price of one A-400 you can buy 3 C-130J which itself and not only compensate but exceeds the weight lifting capacity

Also C-130 is a mature platform being used since good 60 years or so by dozens of countries ,which itself is a big plus when compared to a relatively new platform


----------



## imiakhtar

AVIAN said:


> Cost alone isn't the single determining factor in the choice of modern Airlifter. A-400M is proposed to replace C-130 type transporter because of its increased Payload, Range and Endurance.



The point is Pakistan doesn't need the range or the endurance the A400M offers (needed for force projection). The C-130 is more than capable of carrying a good payload along the North-South axis which is no more than 1000nm at most. 

Further, C-130 operating costs are lower as the training and maintenance infrastructure is already in place and there will be plenty of spares in the market for decades to come.


----------



## Nishan_101

The PAF should have have a fllet like this or not :
10 CN-235 
15 Y-9/KC-390/C-130J (as A-400M would be too much expensive to maintain)
15 IL-76
05 IL-78 (as refeullers)


----------



## Luftwaffe

PAF is very satisfied with what she has in the transport inventory.

China is working on Y-9 Series and than Y-20 is also in pipeline.
So expect the future to better.

C-130s (in future we could be offered C-130J)
CN-235
IL-78
Y-9 if program succeeds
Y-20 if program succeeds


----------



## Super Falcon

well i think unguided bombs can be thrown off from C 130 just two man's in cargo compartnment throwing bombs from it it can be done


----------



## razgriz19

guyz we will need to replace our c-130s in future so im pretty sure PAF will probably gonna go for similar size...
i personally think PAF should go for shaanxi Y-9. people say its comparable to c-130J..











Shaanxi's Y9 still waiting on Chinese military to commit


----------



## Quwa

From: Shaanxi's Y9 still waiting on Chinese military to commit


> China's state-owned Shaanxi Aircraft has frozen the design of its Y9 transport, but has yet to start building the aircraft due to a lack of orders...
> 
> ...The first flight of a Y9 transport could be carried out at the end of this year or in 2011, says the source, who adds that the event's timing could depend on when a buyer is secured. Shaanxi had originally hoped to fly the type as long ago as 2006....


Seems like Shaanxi is really banking on securing an order for Y-9 from someone, and PLAAF hasn't yet responded. Of note, XAC is also developing a turbofan-powered medium-lift transport (similar to C-390). I guess PAF has about 3 good options that can replace C-130, the Shaanxi Y-9, the XAC turbofan (25t) transport and the Embraer C-390. We can add the Antonov An-70 as well once available export.


----------



## muse

The PAF is earning design and manufacturing and management experience witht he JF17, perhaps PAF planners will want to consider a joint venture with the CHinese, Brazilian or and/or Ukrainian, and/or any other design/manufacturing concern, to create a worthy, efficient, economical competitor to the C130 - it's not just the PAF that needs to modernize it's transport/cargo fleet and just as the JF17 and follow on aircraft offer operators a reliable supplier, so the same may be possible for the transport market.

The C130 is a marvelous aircraft and many operators will want to continue using it, however; international geopolitics will effect the confidence operators once had in it's suppliers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

all PAF C-130 A/B/C/D/Es are being upgraded to the C-130H config. new avionics, radar, glass cockpit, uprated engines which will keep these types flying in PAF livery for another 10-15 years.

meanwhile, the IL-78MRTT is another transport aircraft which the PAF has inducted primarily for air refuelling, with a secondary transport role, however for the sake of interoperatibility, the IL-76 can be purchased for the transport role from Ukraine or even Russia. it is a dependable platform.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Quwa

Safe bet might be to invest in the Shaanxi Y-9. It is based off the Y-8F600 that PAF will be getting with its ZDK03 AEW&C, so induction should be relatively smooth. In addition, as fatman mentioned, PAF can acquire additional IL-76/78...and I'd also add possibly more C-130s through EDA. Regarding Y-9, I can't say if Pakistan will be capable or even willing to swallow this plane's manufacturing, but it could settle for some co-production deal (i.e. manufacture specific sections & spare-parts).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## muse

Il76/78 cockpit, for PAF pilots, I would think, rather disappointing and for the airmen working on it's engines I would suspect a similar sentiment - more efficient engines will also see the redesign of the fuel system - it's a machine designed in the early 60's -- now I will testify that it's a hardy ship and that it can be patched up quick and cheap.

I do take your point on upgraded C130, perhaps, given the lag between design specification approval and manufacturing even of components, perhaps 10 years will be sufficient time to evaluate the possibility.

Mark makes an excellent point about co-production of component systems, that will allow other entities under the Kamra rubric, to develop expetise in particular sub-sections.

Anyway, I am a fan of doing the utmost that we can to reduce dependence on Western systems, I just don't see a happy ending to this renewed realtionship with the West.


----------



## khurasaan1

Yes Pak should go for the co-production of this aircraft with Shaanxi Y-9 ...it must be started now....there is another option with Indonesia too.In Indonesia they manufacture the transport aircraft with the spain and is very good standard...CN 235. They r with PAF too 4in number.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Ukrainians want a partner in JV for a cargo plane as well as PAF can order more Il 78 or 76 from ukrainian.
Chinese jet aint even developed yet nor its combat proven.
Best bet is IL series !!
OR
Id say 40 million$ for a brand new C-130 aint much.


----------



## fatman17

muse said:


> Il76/78 cockpit, for PAF pilots, I would think, rather disappointing and for the airmen working on it's engines I would suspect a similar sentiment - more efficient engines will also see the redesign of the fuel system - it's a machine designed in the early 60's -- now I will testify that it's a hardy ship and that it can be patched up quick and cheap.
> 
> I do take your point on upgraded C130, perhaps, given the lag between design specification approval and manufacturing even of components, perhaps 10 years will be sufficient time to evaluate the possibility.
> 
> Mark makes an excellent point about co-production of component systems, that will allow other entities under the Kamra rubric, to develop expetise in particular sub-sections.
> 
> Anyway, I am a fan of doing the utmost that we can to reduce dependence on Western systems, I just don't see a happy ending to this renewed realtionship with the West.



i am not a aeronautical expert, but manufacturing transports and jets is a totally different ball game. i am not sure if PAF is just quite ready for that. even the chinese have issues/shortcomings with their transport design/ manufacturing. most of it is based on russian design / reverse engg.

for the next 20 years, we have to depend on western or east european / chinese sources.


----------



## muse

Well, I'm no expert in that dept either and I suppose they are different things - The point I was hoping to impart was that we need to look past the West - relations may or not improve my bet of course is that they won't - either way Harakat and Barakat, inshallah. 

C130 is a great plane and PAF and commercial fleets need such an aircraft and yet Pakistan can afford so few of them.

On a side note - Fresh Arabian seafood and fruits and manufcatured goods delivered daily in the southern provinces of China and in Central Asia, and returning with consumable and manufactrured goods - bijnis - I likes. It needs an economical, hardy, easy to maintain aircraft


----------



## TaimiKhan

Mark Sien said:


> Safe bet might be to invest in the Shaanxi Y-9. It is based off the Y-8F600 that PAF will be getting with its ZDK03 AEW&C, so induction should be relatively smooth. In addition, as fatman mentioned, PAF can acquire additional IL-76/78...and I'd also add possibly more C-130s through EDA. Regarding Y-9, I can't say if Pakistan will be capable or even willing to swallow this plane's manufacturing, but it could settle for some co-production deal (i.e. manufacture specific sections & spare-parts).



Y-8F600 or Y-9s seem to be good options. 

China has greatly improved its aviation quality and are now looking for exports.

With Y-9 we won't have much of a problem with spare parts and their cost would also be low hopefully, and we can manufacture spare parts in house also if China allows for that. 

In coming years lots of air forces are gonna be needing to replace their older transport fleet, and with C-130Js & A-400 costs, not all can buy these expensive toys, they would be looking for something cheap and reliable, which the Chinese can fulfill, and we can become a part of the sales through making some parts in Pakistan or even spare parts in long run. 

C-130s, Y8F600, IL-78s can be a good combination for our transport fleet.


----------



## bc040400065

fatman17 said:


> i am not a aeronautical expert, but manufacturing transports and jets is a totally different ball game. i am not sure if PAF is just quite ready for that. even the chinese have issues/shortcomings with their transport design/ manufacturing. most of it is based on russian design / reverse engg.
> 
> for the next 20 years, we have to depend on western or east european / chinese sources.



Sir i agree with you but PAC has been manufacturing some parts for Boeing and Airbus, So why cannot PAC go for JV with China or Brazil for transport aircrafts? may be 25% shares...


----------



## fatman17

the upgrade market is the best option from cost-effectiveness POV. countries which cannot buy 'brand-new' look to this reliable option what-ever it may be. 5 upgraded C-130s from Australia cost the PAF USD 15m each. not a bad deal at all. similarly the IL-78MRTT are also upgraded ex-Ukranian a/c.


----------



## muse

Inter-operablity -- today some of those we call allies, such the gulf countries operate US transports, are tied to the US for the support to their "thrones" - these are a net loss for us. Iran, CA, Asia, Africa and some countries in SA may want to be a part of such a "consortium" - countries that want out of US domination and want to be able to follow an independent policy, an independent foreign policy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

bc040400065 said:


> Sir i agree with you but PAC has been manufacturing some parts for Boeing and Airbus, So why cannot PAC go for JV with China or Brazil for transport aircrafts? may be 25% shares...



huge difference between manufacturing 'parts' and 'air-frames'

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MastanKhan

bc040400065 said:


> Sir i agree with you but PAC has been manufacturing some parts for Boeing and Airbus, So why cannot PAC go for JV with China or Brazil for transport aircrafts? may be 25&#37; shares...



Hi,

No---not in the sense that you are stating----pakistan is not manufacturing the boeing parts in the way you are representing.

Boeing has given pakistan the templates---the machines are similiar or the same that boeing was using in the U S---computer programs are boeings----only the operators are pakistanis who have been trained.

The machines are computer controlled---station gets the order----feeds the specs into the computer---the material is supplied by boeing or its vendor---only thing we are offering is less expensive labour.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TOPGUN

I wonder if PAF will purchase more C-130's in the future?


----------



## Sapper

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> No---not in the sense that you are stating----pakistan is not manufacturing the boeing parts in the way you are representing.
> 
> Boeing has given pakistan the templates---the machines are similiar or the same that boeing was using in the U S---computer programs are boeings----only the operators are pakistanis who have been trained.
> 
> The machines are computer controlled---station gets the order----feeds the specs into the computer---the material is supplied by boeing or its vendor---only thing we are offering is less expensive labour.



Dear Sir,

On the risk of sounding biased, it is a tremendous achievement. If anyone has any industrial experience, he will understand that its not simply feeding a CAD/CAM file into a CNC (computer numerical controlled) machine to fabricate an an industrial article. It needs a lot of raw material and fabrication expertise to be able to compete with western counter-parts.

To be selected to be OEM (original equipment manufacturing) partner of any industry, much less an aerospace industry, so prestigious and renowned as Boeing, one has to outperform its industrial rivals in following areas of expertise (which IMHO is no child's play).

1. First you have to hit the marks spot on their tensile testing test-beds for prototype articles. (read: quality)
2. Then you have replicate a small batch production and prove that your tolerance levels are better than others. (read: consistency)
3. Then you have to prove that you can produce the set numbers of articles in a given time-frame. (read: production rate)
4. Then you have to present yourself as a stable and trustworthy supplier (e.g: ISO certifications, of which 9001 and 14001 are just the beginning, aerospace certification are much much tougher)
5. Then you have to out-bid everyone else in the world who has been doing the same for the last 100 years, and already has the equipment, training and skilled labor. (read: economic viability)

And if you think that just owning a particular number of CNC machines and getting your crew trained on them is enough, you are extremely mistaken.

Example: (I am going to praise India here so please bare with me)
India is way way ahead of us in technology market. They make and export Cars, components and what not. They have been trying to buy state of the art manufacturing plants and getting their manpower trained to produce products that are currently competing even Mercedes and BMW component manufacturers (OEM partners). But that was not always the case. In past decades, they were only able to produce crappy cars and parts which didn't even fulfill criterion number one (Quality), but after decades and decades of efforts, they are now into mainstream market, and many of their companies are now OEM partners with many of the world industrial giants. How many of Pakistan's industries can compete with quality standards set in the west, i guess less than 10, or something similar.

Now consider this, India has been building aircrafts, engines and avionics for decades, even a long list of Russian aircrafts and its technology blue-prints have been purchased by India, and translated into English for the Indians. But still after decades of manufacturing, Russian aircrafts are not using India parts, even though Indian production lines are far Cheaper than Russian ones. The only reason might be Quality, Consistency, Production rate or all of the above.

Now compare that PAC-Kamra has managed to compete and outpurform US and European companies for parts that will be installed on aircrafts that are to be operated by US and Europeans themselves ...

Don't you think PAC must have done something extra-ordinary to win their trust ??

Regards,
Sapper

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> I wonder if PAF will purchase more C-130's in the future?



yes it will - at least 4-5.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> yes it will - at least 4-5.



and do you think this would be enough or will be all.

sir as far as my personal approach is concerned, PA/PAF must go for Russian transport planes. they can get them from Ukrain or other former USSSR states.
what do youe suggest?

regards!


----------



## SQ8

arsalanaslam123 said:


> and do you think this would be enough or will be all.
> 
> sir as far as my personal approach is concerned, PA/PAF must go for Russian transport planes. they can get them from Ukrain or other former USSSR states.
> what do youe suggest?
> 
> regards!



Why not these... if in the future.. since it will have the added benefit of strengthening ties.
Embraer KC-390 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Donatello

santro said:


> Why not these... if in the future.. since it will have the added benefit of strengthening ties.
> Embraer KC-390 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I think it would be better if we ordered more C-130s, as we already have their infrastructure in place.

Also, with the arrival of IL78s, we now have Ukrainian experience so i guess PAF should opt either Ukrainian or US.

But we definitely need more transport aircraft.


----------



## rohailmalhi

Yep Antonov-124 transport planes , they are huge and cheap ............



> General characteristics
> * Crew: 6
> * Capacity: 88 passengers or the hold can take an additional 350 on a palletised seating system
> * * Payload: 150,000 kg (330,000 lb)*
> * Length: 68.96 m (226 ft 3 in)
> * Wingspan: 73.3 m (240 ft 5 in)
> * Height: 20.78 m (68 ft 2 in)
> * Wing area: 628 m&#178; (6,760 sq ft)
> * Empty weight: 175,000 kg (385,000 lb)
> * Loaded weight: 405,000 kg (893,000 lb)
> * * Useful load: 230,000 kg (508,000 lb)*
> * Max takeoff weight: 405,000 kg (893,000 lb)
> * Powerplant: 4&#215; Ivchenko Progress D-18T turbofans, 229.5 kN (51,600 lbf) each
> 
> Performance
> 
> * * Maximum speed: 865 km/h (467 kn (537 mph))
> * Cruise speed: 800-850 km/h (430 kn (490 mph))
> * Range: 5,400 km (2,900 nm, 3,360 mi (5,410 km))*
> * Service ceiling: 12,000 m (35,000 ft)
> * Wing loading: 365 kg/m&#178; (74.7 lb/sq ft)
> * Thrust/weight: 0.23



Antonov An-124 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or we can get il-78 modified as Air refuelers , and can be used as transport planes.which currently Pakistan have as air refuellers.


> General characteristics
> 
> * Crew: Six
> * Capacity: 138,000 kg (304,233 lb) of fuel
> * Length: 46.59 m (152 ft 10 in)
> * Wingspan: 50.50 m (165 ft 8 in)
> * Height: 14.76 m (37 ft 1 in)
> * Wing area: 300 m&#178; (3,230 ft&#178
> * Empty weight: 72,000 kg (202,821 lb)
> * * Useful load: 85,720 kg (188,980 lb)*
> * Max takeoff weight: 210,000 kg (462,962 lb)
> * Powerplant: 4&#215; Aviadvigatel D-30 KP turbofan engines, 118 kN (26,500 lbf) each
> * Special equipment: 3 x UPAZ-1M 'Sakhalin', (oonifitseerovannyy podvesnoy agregaht zaprahvki - standardised suspended refuelling unit), refuelling pods; Two on pylons under the outer wings, and the third on the port side of the rear fuselage.
> 
> Performance
> 
> * * Maximum speed: 850 km/h (460 kn, 530 mph)
> * Range: 7,300 km (3,942 nmi, 4,551 mi)*
> * Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,360 ft)
> * Thrust/weight: 0.23


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-78


----------



## Ishan

@rohailmalhi

I dont think Russia will be willing to sell Pakistan An-124


----------



## SQ8

True.. the C-130's are the most cost effective options for us..
And to all those advocating the An-124.. exactly how is that plane supposed to fill any role for tactical transport?
The damn thing needs a huge runway to takeoff.. runways like that exist in only 5 or 6 places in Pakistan, unlike the Herc which can land in almost every field and if needed on 9ave in Islamabad.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

santro said:


> True.. the C-130's are the most cost effective options for us..
> And to all those advocating the An-124.. exactly how is that plane supposed to fill any role for tactical transport?
> The damn thing needs a huge runway to takeoff.. runways like that exist in only 5 or 6 places in Pakistan, unlike the Herc which can land in almost every field and if needed on 9ave in Islamabad.



well C-130 do have the advantage that PA/PAC already have the infra structure to support them.
however we do require mover heavier transport planes for strategic transport.
the C-130 fits good in tactical transport role with ability to take-off and land from short semi perpared runways!
but still we need some real weight lifter, atleast 6-8 of them.

regards!


----------



## Luftwaffe

PAF in Transport department is fairly doing good. Future looks bright with Chinese working on multiple projects we could see apart from more C-130s, Chinese transport platforms. quite a number of options.
C-130/C-235
Y-9/Y-20


----------



## fatman17

penumbra said:


> *I think it would be better if we ordered more C-130s, as we already have their infrastructure in place*.
> 
> Also, with the arrival of IL78s, we now have Ukrainian experience so i guess PAF should opt either Ukrainian or US.
> 
> But we definitely need more transport aircraft.



PAF has in-house capability to service the Allison T-50(?) engines and LM is considering to make PAF a 'hub' for C-130 maintenance for ME/SWasia area. so yes in that sence, more C-130s wld be ideal. the C-130H is ~same as the C-130J (except for the size). and the wing span.


----------



## SQ8

fatman17 said:


> PAF has in-house capability to service the Allison T-50(?) engines and LM is considering to make PAF a 'hub' for C-130 maintenance for ME/SWasia area. so yes in that sence, more C-130s wld be ideal. the C-130H is ~same as the C-130J (except for the size). and the wing span.



Actually, there are two versions, the C-130J normal and the stretch -30 version. 
The normal C-130J is pretty much the same size as the H.
The only difference is in speed,range and economy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

santro said:


> Actually, there are two versions, the C-130J normal and the stretch -30 version.
> The normal C-130J is pretty much the same size as the H.
> The only difference is in speed,range and economy.



stand corrected!


----------



## fatman17

arsalanaslam123 said:


> and do you think this would be enough or will be all.
> 
> sir as far as my personal approach is concerned, PA/PAF must go for Russian transport planes. they can get them from Ukrain or other former USSSR states.
> what do youe suggest?
> 
> regards!



current fleet:
15 - C-130A/B/C/D/E- all being upgraded to H
1 - L-100 - civilian version of C-130
4 - CN-235
2 - IL-78MRTT

on order:
2 - IL-78MRTT
4/5 - C-130H

Total: 29/30 transports for a country the size of Pakistan is not bad.

not to mention the 3-Boeing 707 and 1-A310 also available in transport config.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> current fleet:
> 15 - C-130A/B/C/D/E- all being upgraded to H
> 1 - F-100(?) - civilian version of C-130
> 4 - CN-235
> 2 - IL-78MRTT
> 
> on order:
> 2 - IL-78MRTT
> 4/5 - C-130H
> 
> Total: 29/30 transports for a country the size of Pakistan is not bad.
> 
> not to mention the 3-Boeing 707 and 1-A310 also available in transport config.




sir i dont think the the Il-78 will ever be used as transport aircraft.
i mean, PAF have bought them as refuelers, although, refueling wont be a full time Job and will only be carried out during exercises and stuff but still i dont think they will start playing the standard transport role.

this is the reason i siad that PA/PAF must order some 6 other Il-78 in transport config and use them for medium lift capability!

what do you suggest!

regards!


----------



## TOPGUN

I acutally think PAF needs to stick with C-130 perhaps a order a few more and i think we are good .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

arsalanaslam123 said:


> sir i dont think the the Il-78 will ever be used as transport aircraft.
> i mean, PAF have bought them as refuelers, although, refueling wont be a full time Job and will only be carried out during exercises and stuff but still i dont think they will start playing the standard transport role.
> 
> this is the reason i siad that PA/PAF must order some 6 other Il-78 in transport config and use them for medium lift capability!
> 
> what do you suggest!
> 
> regards!



i think the conversion to transport from tanker and back is not a huge task (2-3 hrs) then i see no reason why they will not be used as tankers. but then i am not in the PAF so i am just stating what can be done to increase transport capacity.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MastanKhan

arsalanaslam123 said:


> sir i dont think the the Il-78 will ever be used as transport aircraft.
> i mean, PAF have bought them as refuelers, although, refueling wont be a full time Job and will only be carried out during exercises and stuff but still i dont think they will start playing the standard transport role.
> 
> this is the reason i siad that PA/PAF must order some 6 other Il-78 in transport config and use them for medium lift capability!
> 
> what do you suggest!
> 
> regards!



Hi,

They are too big to just be refuellers alone. They are dual purpose aircraft. Taimikhan posted a configuration a while back---check it out---or if TK can repost it--it would clear things up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaimiKhan

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> They are too big to just be refuellers alone. They are dual purpose aircraft. Taimikhan posted a configuration a while back---check it out---or if TK can repost it--it would clear things up.



here you go Sir:

*With one of its internal fuel tanks.*






*More detailed pictures and specifications:*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Arsalan

well Sir FATMAN, MAstan Khan and Taimi...

thak s for the insight, i stand corrected.

this was something not know to me.

thank you all,

regards!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

fatman17 said:


> current fleet:
> 15 - C-130A/B/C/D/E- all being upgraded to H
> 1 - L-100 - civilian version of C-130
> 4 - CN-235
> 2 - IL-78MRTT
> 
> on order:
> 2 - IL-78MRTT
> *4/5 - C-130H*
> 
> Total: 29/30 transports for a country the size of Pakistan is not bad.
> 
> not to mention the 3-Boeing 707 and 1-A310 also available in transport config.



Why not going for C-130J ??


----------



## JK!

I'd like to see more Indonesian CN235s inducted in a cargo transport role.


----------



## MastanKhan

TK,

Just wanted you to know---YOU ARE AN ANIMAL BUDDY.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaimiKhan

MastanKhan said:


> TK,
> 
> Just wanted you to know---YOU ARE AN ANIMAL BUDDY.





Thank U Sir


----------



## Super Falcon

which is the best and the biggest transport plane 

Biggest is C 5 and Antonov 

but if you compare which one got sold alot IL 78 i think is proven and cost effective heavylifter


----------



## rohailmalhi

Ishan said:


> @rohailmalhi
> 
> I dont think Russia will be willing to sell Pakistan An-124



Yeah i know but is it necessary tht we can only get them from Russia .Many other countries have these planes and we can get it from them by offering good price .............



> Military
> 
> Russia
> 
> * Russian Air Force (25)
> 
> Civil
> 
> Libya
> 
> * Libyan Arab Air Cargo (2)
> 
> Russia
> 
> * Volga-Dnepr (10)+ 5 on order.
> * Polet Airlines (8)+ 5 on order.
> 
> Ukraine
> 
> * Antonov Airlines (7)
> 
> United Arab Emirates
> 
> * Maximus Air Cargo (1)
> 
> Bulgaria
> 
> * AirCargo Bulgaria (1)
> * Russian Cargo (1)


----------



## Super Falcon

well russian equipment is not only of russian now as ukraine is 50 &#37; partnership of many equipments well ukraine sold us state of the art russian muscle T 80UD i dont think so AN 125 will have any probleum to be inducted in PAF but pakistan need heavylifter helicopters now we are short on them both military and civile uses in pakistan needs these heavy choopers


----------



## fatman17

JK! said:


> I'd like to see more Indonesian CN235s inducted in a cargo transport role.



or the CN295!


----------



## muse

C5 are maintainence nightmares and why do PAF need AN124? We need a varied lift capablity, but I can't think why we would need AN124


----------



## miads

Pakistan should go for Y-8, C-27J aircraft. It is more ideal for pk air force. For heavy transport, i think it is hard for pk air force to buy C-17 Globe master. From other hand, IL-76 is more ideal but production delays is really threatening. Look at china acquiring more IL-76.


----------



## TOPGUN

I say buy more c-130's and more cn-235's its good enough for us although i would say we need heavy lift heli's.


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

y not c-130 j ? 
Y Y Y Y Y =


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> or the CN295!



sir in my opinion if we can get C-130 via a reliable supply channel it is the best option.

the ability to take off and land from semi prepared runways, ability to load two time heavier then the CN295 can carry and ability to transport more troops, all give advantage to the C-130.

however if we do not want to risk the unreliability of supplier, the chines Y-9 or even Y-8 are perfect option.

the payload, range and speed all matches that of atleast C-130, with Y-9 reported to e on par with C-130 Super Hercules.
moreover the fact that we will be gtting atleast five Y-8 (four for AWE &C and one for training) makes Y-8 a good option.

what do you suggest?

regards!


----------



## fatman17

arsalanaslam123 said:


> sir in my opinion if we can get C-130 via a reliable supply channel it is the best option.
> 
> the ability to take off and land from semi prepared runways, ability to load two time heavier then the CN295 can carry and ability to transport more troops, all give advantage to the C-130.
> 
> however if we do not want to risk the unreliability of supplier, the chines Y-9 or even Y-8 are perfect option.
> 
> the payload, range and speed all matches that of atleast C-130, with Y-9 reported to e on par with C-130 Super Hercules.
> moreover the fact that we will be gtting atleast five Y-8 (four for AWE &C and one for training) makes Y-8 a good option.
> 
> what do you suggest?
> 
> regards!



the Y-8 is being termed the 'poor mans C-130' - depends on PAF requirements - C-130 is a tried and tested platfrom - why change a good thing - many C-130E/H will be available from US EDA if we so desire.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Quwa

I think PAF will probably acquire more CN-235 for tactical/short-lift transport purposes, it is a good platform. As for medium-lift, I think it'll end up requesting more used C-130s through EDA. 

In the long-term (i.e. after 2025) the PAF could begin replacing its C-130s with a new generation platform, maybe the Embraer KC-390. The benefit of KC-390 is that it can be acquired in both transport and tanker variants, and I believe (not sure yet) be converted between the two roles. PAF can begin replacing C-130s and IL-78s with a single platform 12-15 years from now, thus saving in terms of logistics, maintenance, operation costs, etc. In fact if pursued correctly, PAC could even become an industrial partner and supplier of certain parts and segments of KC-390.

The C-295 would be a good intermediate transport in the short-lift role, but it can also be used as a platform for special-mission aircraft. For example, one of the likely gains from the ZDK03 program with China is acquiring the knowledge and capability to integrate the AEW&C system to a platform of our choice. It is possible that PAF will try equipping an aircraft such as C-295, ATR-72 or even ERJ-145 with the ZDK03 (or a future variant of this system) for both domestic and export purposes. The C-295 (or ATR-72, ERJ-145) could be a potential platform for not only AEW&C, but also ELINT, STAR (Surveillance, Targeting, Acquisition & Reconnaissance), maritime surveillance (replace PN Fokker F27).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Luftwaffe

I was thinking of that platform C-295 for AWE&C/ESM-ECM


----------



## TaimiKhan

Mark Sien said:


> I think PAF will probably acquire more CN-235 for tactical/short-lift transport purposes, it is a good platform. As for medium-lift, I think it'll end up requesting more used C-130s through EDA.
> 
> In the long-term (i.e. after 2025) the PAF could begin replacing its C-130s with a new generation platform, maybe the Embraer KC-390. The benefit of KC-390 is that it can be acquired in both transport and tanker variants, and I believe (not sure yet) be converted between the two roles. PAF can begin replacing C-130s and IL-78s with a single platform 12-15 years from now, thus saving in terms of logistics, maintenance, operation costs, etc. In fact if pursued correctly, PAC could even become an industrial partner and supplier of certain parts and segments of KC-390.
> 
> The C-295 would be a good intermediate transport in the short-lift role, but it can also be used as a platform for special-mission aircraft. For example, one of the likely gains from the ZDK03 program with China is acquiring the knowledge and capability to integrate the AEW&C system to a platform of our choice. It is possible that PAF will try equipping an aircraft such as C-295, ATR-72 or even ERJ-145 with the ZDK03 (or a future variant of this system) for both domestic and export purposes. The C-295 (or ATR-72, ERJ-145) could be a potential platform for not only AEW&C, but also ELINT, STAR (Surveillance, Targeting, Acquisition & Reconnaissance), maritime surveillance (replace PN Fokker F27).



Well, i believe we should go with three tier platform system satisfying different roles with efficiency and effectiveness. 

CN-235/295 for short range, small payload configuration and other different roles as suitable. 

C-130 / Y-9 for medium tactical role, i won't go for putting all the eggs in one basket with C-130s, we need to diversify in this category. 

And 6-8 IL-78 MRTTs, which can be used for refueling and heavy duty transport purposes. 

Embrarer C-390 is also a good option, and if we can invest in it, then we should, but being from the west, it may be costly as well as prone to sanctions, thus we should play safe. Plus, turbo prop are more fuel efficient compared to jet ones, thus it may have some effect on the operating costs too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## muse

I would second not putting all medium transport eggs i the American basket -- on the other hand, it may be a good idea for Kamra to understand and be capable of reproducing and improving every part of the C130 and the same with the IL76/78.

Is there any genuine interest in the PAF about Embraer Transport?


----------



## Quwa

TaimiKhan said:


> Embrarer C-390 is also a good option, and if we can invest in it, then we should, but being from the west, it may be costly as well as prone to sanctions, thus we should play safe. Plus, turbo prop are more fuel efficient compared to jet ones, thus it may have some effect on the operating costs too.


To the credit of the Brazilians, they're trying to develop C-390 as a reasonably priced but high performance platform. They realize that the costs and complexities of A400M could go against it in the export market. Another note:

_"It is designed to be superior to the C-130," says Neto. "The Brazilian air force could have purchased the C-130J, but this aircraft will do more for less, so that's the challenge we have ahead of us. It's as simple as that. We have a contract to produce a product that will do that job."_

FARNBOROUGH: Embraer confident of success with KC-390 airlifter

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> the Y-8 is being termed the 'poor mans C-130' - depends on PAF requirements - C-130 is a tried and tested platfrom - why change a good thing - many C-130E/H will be available from US EDA if we so desire.



but sir what about this part of my post:



> Originally Posted by* arsalanaslam123 *
> sir in my opinion if we can get C-130 via a reliable supply channel it is the best option.




i was making the point that if we want to switch to other options from C-130 then the Y-8 or Y-9 will be much better then the CN-235 etc!

regards!


----------



## Arsalan

but the C-390 will be sanction prone so i guess PAF will be wise enough not to go toward it!
as taimi suggested, russian or perhaps chines options will be better for medium-heavy lift platforms.
there are a number of options in medium lift from china with Y-8 and future Y-9 being of prime importance, as sir Fatman quoted, C-130 of poor man!

one thing that keep forcing me to favour the Y-8 for medium lift role is that we are bound to get them with KJ-200 AWE&C so why nt get them into transport role as well, specially when they are as good as the C-130.
we can kep looking for C-130 via US funding progrmas but should also invest in alternative platforms.
shall not be bitten by the same snake again and again!!

i do not favour the CN-295 as it will add a new dimension for maintainance issues, carry lesser load then Y-8 and is costly as well!

regards!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Saturday, October 09, 2010

*C-130 to China?*

Letter from the President Regarding an Export Waiver for China | The White House

The White House

Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
October 08, 2010

Letter from the President Regarding an Export Waiver for China

TEXT OF A LETTER FROM THE PRESIDENT
TO THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE

Dear Madam Speaker: (Dear Mr. President

Pursuant to the authority vested in me by section 902(b)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1990 and 1991 (Public Law 101-246)(the "Act"), and as President of the United States, I hereby report to the Congress that it is in the national interest of the United States to terminate the suspensions under section 902(a)(3) of the Act with respect to the issuance of temporary munitions export licenses for exports to the People's Republic of China insofar as such restrictions pertain to the C-130 cargo aircraft to be used in oil spill response operations at sea. License requirements remain in place for these exports and require review and approval on a case-by-case basis by the United States Government.

Sincerely,
BARACK OBAMA


----------



## Luftwaffe

I was thinking as a low cost platform a tanker variant of Chinese Y-8G IFR a project that is being worked upon. First prototype flew in 2004.

Would it not be feasible and a good IFR Tanker for the PAF to to used for JF-17s.


----------



## Safriz

Instead of going jetset..Why not look into airships for transport? Cheaper to run and maintain..Part from the helium,everything else is pretty low tech and obtainable.
US army is now considering Lockheed martin's Airships as their new transport vehicles and even as replacement for satellites,as airships can be made geo stationary at a much lower cost and technical complications compared to satellites..

I think Pakistan should look into this 1930s technology and use it.

US Army Orders Lockheed-Martin&#8217;s Mystery Airship Skunk Works ? RealityPod | Gadgets, Technology & Robotics Hub


----------



## marcos98



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Stealth_fighter

y-8 looks ugly..i dont fancy this plane


----------



## monitor

i think pakistan turkey indonesia should jointly developed transport aircraft for their need.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Taha Samad

How many C-130's are with PAF? 

no. of C130E and C130B?

I red on some other forum that B707 of PAF have been decommissioned,Is this true?

Is there a transport squadron based in PAF Faisal?

How many VIP transport planes are available with PAF(a detailed answer like type,number etc)?

I know 1 of the 4 C235 is equipped for VIP transport.

There is one A-310

How many Gulf Stream are with PAF?

Phenom 100, 1 was delievered,what about other 3?


----------



## dexter

tahasamad said:


> How many C-130's are with PAF?
> 
> no. of C130E and C130B?
> 
> I red on some other forum that B707 of PAF have been decommissioned,Is this true?
> 
> Is there a transport squadron based in PAF Faisal?
> 
> How many VIP transport planes are available with PAF(a detailed answer like type,number etc)?
> 
> I know 1 of the 4 C235 is equipped for VIP transport.
> 
> There is one A-310
> 
> How many Gulf Stream are with PAF?
> 
> Phenom 100, 1 was delievered,what about other 3?



U should better use GOOGLE for ur answers !!!


----------



## fatman17

tahasamad said:


> How many C-130's are with PAF?
> 
> no. of C130E and C130B?
> 
> I red on some other forum that B707 of PAF have been decommissioned,Is this true?
> 
> Is there a transport squadron based in PAF Faisal?
> 
> How many VIP transport planes are available with PAF(a detailed answer like type,number etc)?
> 
> I know 1 of the 4 C235 is equipped for VIP transport.
> 
> There is one A-310
> 
> How many Gulf Stream are with PAF?
> 
> Phenom 100, 1 was delievered,what about other 3?



all the answers are available in the military aviation section - dont be a hard*** and try to find it for yourself - if you dont, then come back

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1

CHECK "ND" POST
History of PIA - Forum :: View topic - VVIP Airbus A310-300 Handed Over To PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

tahasamad said:


> How many C-130's are with PAF?
> 
> no. of C130E and C130B?
> 
> I red on some other forum that B707 of PAF have been decommissioned,Is this true?
> 
> Is there a transport squadron based in PAF Faisal?
> 
> How many VIP transport planes are available with PAF(a detailed answer like type,number etc)?
> 
> I know 1 of the 4 C235 is equipped for VIP transport.
> 
> There is one A-310
> 
> How many Gulf Stream are with PAF?
> 
> Phenom 100, 1 was delievered,what about other 3?



Direct Reporting Units

No. 35 (Composite Air Transport) Wing

3 Squadron

Cessna 560XL Citation Excel

F-27-200 Friendship

Falcon 20E

G350

Gulfstream IVSP

Saab 2000

6 Squadron

C-130B Hercules

C-130E Hercules

CN-235M-220

CN-235M-220-VIP

L-100 Hercules

10 Squadron

Il-78MP 'Midas'

41 Squadron

Cessna 172P Skyhawk

Phenom 100

Y-12 II Turbo Panda

Transport Conversion School

C-130B Hercules

C-130E Hercules

L-100 Hercules


PAF Base Chaklala 
Government/Presidential Flight

A310-304

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Arsalan

now with the induction roll out of first of the ZDK-03 AEW&C platform for PAF, i will again like to put forward the case of PAF acquisition of Y-8 for transport roles.



> *Y-8F600*
> *The Y-8F600 is the latest development variant of the Y-8. *The aircraft was developed under the *assistance of Ukraine-based Antonov Aeronautical Scientific-Technical Complex (ASTC) and Pratt and Whitney Canada.* The Y-8F600 configured to provide an aerial platform for airborne early warning aircraft and other special purposes is referred to as &#8220;Category-III Platform&#8221;. The aircraft made its first flight on 14 January 2005.
> 
> Based on the successful Shaanxi Y-8 series transport aircraft, *the Y-8F600 has been extensively modified and upgraded with Western technologies including turboprop engine and avionics*. The development program began in 1999, with two foreign partners Ukraine-based Antonov Aeronautical Scientific-Technical Complex (ASTC) and Pratt and Whitney Canada joining the program in 2000~2002. Under the contract signed in 2002, S*haanxi and Antonov shall jointly design, assemble prototypes, certify and put into series the new Y-8F600 transport, while P&W was responsible for providing its PW150B engine to power the aircraft.*
> 
> A risks-sharing partner under the program, Antonov provided Shaanxi with the results of rigidity and aerodynamic research, as well as documents on aircraft maintainability and service life. It also designed the new wing with fuel tanks and developed technology to build it. Antonov would also share its technical data and experience with Shaanxi, and was involved in the test of the aircraft. The first flight of the Y-8F600 was made successfully on 14 January 2005.
> 
> The Y-8F600 is also referred to by Shaanxi and the PLA as &#8220;Category-III Platform&#8221;, which would provide an advanced aerial platform for special purposes such as *airborne early warning (AEW/AWACS), electronic warfare and intelligence (EW/ELINT), maritime patrol, etc. *The terms of Category-I and -II platforms are used to refer to the aerial platforms developed from the Y-8 basic variant and Y-8C fully-pressurised variant respectively. The successful development of the Y-8F600 was seen as a significant achievement for Shaanxi.
> 
> The Y-8F600 features an advanced two-man &#8216;glass&#8217; cockpit. As well as basic flight avionics, the aircraft is equipped with datalink, flight management and control, and near ground warning system.
> 
> *The Y-8F600 is powered by four P&W PB150B turboprop engines. The all-composite six-blade R-408 propeller system was developed by British Dodi company. This arrangement offers improved take-off performance at "hot and high" airports and high altitude cruise performance, extended engine service lives, and lower engine operating and maintenance costs. In addition, noise levels will be reduced and meet stringent airport noise restrictions. The aircraft maximum take-off weight is increased to 65t.*



PAF/PA must seriously consider this as a strong candidate for future transport aircraft requirment. 
this is a real good airplane. as good as the C-130 super Hercules (that is not the ones we have with our fleet) and coming from a far more reliable source.
as we are now going for ZDK AEW&C mounted on the Y-8F600 airplanes i think it will be wise enough to go for some six to eight airplanes for transport and/or may be some three maritime surveillance version to support the fleet of P-3C Orions.


----------



## Arsalan

*Pratt & Whitney Canada's PW150B Engine Selected for China's Y8F600 Aircraft*

*China Aviation Industry Corporation II (AVIC II) and Pratt & Whitney Canada (P&WC) announced today that they have signed agreement for the installation of the PW150B engine on the Y8F600 aircraft program.* The aircraft development program has been launched and aircraft certification is scheduled for the fourth quarter of 2005.

The Y8 is a four-engine *medium transport aircraft* developed and manufactured by Shaanxi Aircraft Company, a subsidiary of AVIC II. It has a *maximum take-off weight of 61 tonnes and maximum payload of 20 tonnes*. The Y-8 series includes 16 successfully developed versions, with a total of 90 aircraft produced and sold. It is mainly used in general transport and postal aviation.

AVIC II has chosen the PW150B in their strategy to widen the Y-8 market, further improve operational performance and reduce direct operating costs. The PW150B engine will power AVIC II's new Y8F600 model. The PW150 is a latest-technology engine developed based on the PW100 engine family's 74 million hours of flight experience.

Fitted with the PW150B, Y8F600 will offer improved take-off performance at "hot and high" airports and high altitude cruise performance, extended engine service lives, and lower engine operating and maintenance costs. In addition, noise levels will be reduced and meet stringent airport noise restrictions. The Y8F600 will also be fitted with modern industry standard civil cargo handling systems. With aircraft MTOW increased to 65 tonnes, the Y-8F600 will have broad market appeal and sales of more than 100 aircraft is expected.

"AVIC II has already established good cooperation with P&WC. I hope that both parties will attain further success through theY8 re-engine program," said Dr. Zhang Yanzhong, President of AVIC II.

China Aviation Industry Corporation II (AVIC II) is a large state-owned aviation industrial group engaged in the development and manufacture of aircraft for markets such as the transport, trainer and helicopter markets. AVIC II has become the main supplier of China's domestic aviation market. AVIC II takes full use of its own advantages, focuses on the development of aircraft and automobiles and actively takes part in international cooperation.

P&WC, based in Longueuil, Quebec, is a world leader in aviation engines powering business and regional aircraft and helicopters. The company also offers advanced engines for industrial applications. P&WC's operations and service network span the globe. P&WC is a subsidiary of United Technologies Corporation (NYSE:UTX), a high-technology company based in Hartford, Connecticut.


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

* Departing back home suporting a mission with 6 F-16B from Red Flag.*












*Lockheed C-130E-I Hercules 4171 at Zhuhai - Sanzao *















*Lockheed C-130H Hercules 4282 taking off from Quetta - Samungli *

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

*Gulfstream Aerospace G-IV Gulfstream IV-SP at Beijing - China, June 17, 2010*





*Lockheed C-130E Hercules 4178 at Ankara-Esenboga Turkey, 2010*





*Lockheed L-100 Hercules at Chengdu(Shuangliu) China, July 11, 2010*





*Lockheed C-130E-I Hercules 4171 at Tianjin - Zhangguizhuang China, October 13, 2009*









*4171 (cn 382-4171) Delivered to the Royal Australian AF in October 1966, she was retired in September 2000. In January 2006 she entered service with the Pakistan AF after an extensive overhaul and now looks as good as new.*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

NEW BIRDS 





*Embraer EMB-500 Phenom 100*





*Saab 2000*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

danger-zone said:


> NEW BIRDS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Embraer EMB-500 Phenom 100*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Saab 2000*



saab 2000 is the trg aircraft for crews of the erieye awacs

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

^^nice job danger-zone!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well Pakistan , has only what 12-15 C130 crafts ? 


Which is not sufficient to supply food & supplies to 700,000 strong army it has , and its just not sufficient even if we want to help our allies in operations with in our flying distance.


We really need about 40 C130 fleet for our minimum needs - in Pakistan let alone for operations outside of Pakistan.

Luckily we could also purchase the transport planes from China as they materialize to fill that gap in our Airfroce 

Compare that to USA they have like 240 + C130 in their fleet vs 12 of ours etc and they also have 100-200 other planes and not to mention 1000+ sitting in retirement docks - for transport and supply usage


----------



## fatman17

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Well Pakistan , has only what 12-15 C130 crafts ?
> 
> 
> Which is not sufficient to supply food & supplies to 700,000 strong army it has , and its just not sufficient even if we want to help our allies in operations with in our flying distance.
> 
> 
> We really need about 40 C130 fleet for our minimum needs - in Pakistan let alone for operations outside of Pakistan.
> 
> Luckily we could also purchase the transport planes from China as they materialize to fill that gap in our Airfroce
> 
> Compare that to USA they have like 240 + C130 in their fleet vs 12 of ours etc and they also have 100-200 other planes and not to mention 1000+ sitting in retirement docks - for transport and supply usage



AZ - you are the most 'optimistic' guy on this forumbut your optimism shd make some sense - u r comparing our armed forces to that of a super power???

btw - supplies to our forces is made by 'other means', not just the C-130's

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

*Il-78MP 'Midas'* 
D;2 
Cu;2 
O;2

Pakistan Air Force

- Note: Erroneous reports in the local media suggested that 2 Il-78MP tanker aircraft were delivered to Pakistan on 2nd December 2008, with a further pair due to follow suit in the near future & the possibility of a fifth example also being acquired. Plans to acquire an AAR capability were mooted in 2006 & it has been confirmed that these are ex-Ukraine AF aircraft that have undergone overhaul & refurbishment. The first aircraft was delivered in late 2009 or early 2010, with the second following suit on 29th October 2010.

- Located at 10 Squadron

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

ahussains said:


> yes we have to think about the other resources like China a Russia and upto me the An70 or a IL-78 will be a nice selctions in place for the C-130 ... Any comment ?



the IL-78 is a tanker but the IL-76 is the transport version.....but these rusian beasts are not really reliable....alot of these crash and do not exactly fill you with confidence...although the An-70 will be good


----------



## Mani2020

nuclearpak said:


> the IL-78 is a tanker but the IL-76 is the transport version.....but these rusian beasts are not really reliable....alot of these crash and do not exactly fill you with confidence...although the An-70 will be good



il-78 is a MRTT mean multi-role tanker transport.you can convert them anytime for transport version or tanker version depending upon your need


----------



## Jango

Mani2020 said:


> il-78 is a MRTT mean multi-role tanker transport.you can convert them anytime for transport version or tanker version depending upon your need



my bad!!sorry......but these planes are still not very reliable kinds...4 are fine.....but to make them the backbone along with C-130 is not a good idea!


----------



## unicorn

*FrankFurt-Hahn 21-12-2010 Pakistan AirForce IL-78 Tanker*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mani2020

*CN-235*
















*Cessna Citation 5*






*y-12*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Stealth_fighter

what IL-78 DOING IN GERMANY


----------



## fatman17

Stealth_fighter said:


> what IL-78 DOING IN GERMANY



cld be in the 'transport mode' and picking up 'goodies"!!!


----------



## fatman17

unicorn said:


> *FrankFurt-Hahn 21-12-2010 Pakistan AirForce IL-78 Tanker*



nice job unicorn!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## unicorn

Il78 PAF tanker left Germany and went to Ankara, Turkey.

Is it acting as transporter for PAF f16 MLU parts?


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

*Switzerland, September 21, 2010: Switzerland has sold 10 Alouette III to Pakistan. The first one was picked up by this Hercules.*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PAFAce

unicorn said:


> *FrankFurt-Hahn 21-12-2010 Pakistan AirForce IL-78 Tanker*





fatman17 said:


> cld be in the 'transport mode' and picking up 'goodies"!!!


Does the PAF carry out cold weather testing on its aircraft? Maybe to ensure it will work in the Northern region when required?


----------



## fatman17

PAFAce said:


> Does the PAF carry out cold weather testing on its aircraft? Maybe to ensure it will work in the Northern region when required?



that can be done at Skardu - no need to fly all the way to germany!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PAFAce

fatman17 said:


> that can be done at Skardu - no need to fly all the way to germany!


Well, maybe it's the facilities in Germany that make it worth flying there. Many European car manufacturers perform cold weather testing in either Sweden or Canada, not because they can't hove cold weather anywhere else, but the facilities here are purpose built.

Are you aware of any special facilities in Skardu?


----------



## TaimiKhan

May be it was in Germany on its way back to Pakistan from somewhere and was making a stop, as its a MRTT, meaning it can be used for transport purposes too. 

Plus, who knows its picking up something for our JF-17, as something comes from Germany too, which is fitted in JF-17.

From the serial and Pak flag, it seems its a fully inducted plane in the PAF and is on official duty. 

A few days back the R001, was seen at the Chinese city of Chengdu, where JF-17 was developed. 

PAF using these as transporters for the time being.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

PAFAce said:


> Well, maybe it's the facilities in Germany that make it worth flying there. Many European car manufacturers perform cold weather testing in either Sweden or Canada, not because they can't hove cold weather anywhere else, but the facilities here are purpose built.
> 
> Are you aware of any special facilities in Skardu?



how abt -8*C temp!


----------



## monitor




----------



## DANGER-ZONE

* VIP flight returning home from Istanbul - Ataturk*
*Turkey, December 9, 2010*

PAF officials Visited TAI in December for F-16 MLU program overview.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

Duplicate .... Deleted !


----------



## fatman17

danger-zone said:


> * VIP flight returning home from Istanbul - Ataturk*
> *Turkey, December 9, 2010*
> 
> PAF officials Visited TAI in December for F-16 MLU overview.



why would the PAF still 'carry' the PIA livery? - very surprising!


----------



## Mani2020




----------



## air marshal




----------



## air marshal




----------



## Mani2020

[/IMG]


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

Mani2020 said:


> [/IMG]



plz copy the image to your computer, then upload it to any image hosting website and upload it again. so we can see it...

other wise PakDef does not allow image hosting...


----------



## Stealth_fighter

cockpit and navigator's place of IL-78 respectively


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

_ Portugal, August 29, 2010 :_*All the aircraft on image were the support for the Pakistani F-16s for the Red Flag. Some shrubs in the image focusing attention on the two Pakistani Hecules.*





Pakistan, February 15, 2011 : *Mi 171 operating in Northern Areas, Pakistan*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fatman17

danger-zone said:


> _ Portugal, August 29, 2010 :_*All the aircraft on image were the support for the Pakistani F-16s for the Red Flag. Some shrubs in the image focusing attention on the two Pakistani Hecules.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan, February 15, 2011 : *Mi 171 operating in Northern Areas, Pakistan*



cool pic of the chopper!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

we need more than 10 transport air-crafts from these


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

Germany, February 5, 2011 : *Pakistan - Air Force Gulfstream Aerospace G-IV-X Gulfstream G450 at Munich Security Conference 2011*


----------



## DARING

it has been used for bomb drop in


----------



## Stealth_fighter




----------



## DANGER-ZONE

although this is not a PAF's bird but they can travel it and it belongs to Pakistani aviation... a few details of image to point out here that might disappoint our INDIAN fellows. 
enjoy the beautiful and colorful picture.





*March 6, 2011*: _Pakistan Army - Mil Mi-17-1V St. Petersburg (Leningrad) - Pulkovo (LED / ULLI) *Russia*, _
are these upgraded by *Russian* or they are new ... or ye kia kia laga k ur raha hai

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaimiKhan

Most probably new one as if you remember we last saw pictures of 3 new ones delievered, which had the serial numbers as 58632, 34 & 28 and this pic has serial number as 58647, meaning this is a new serial number for a new helicopter.

Also, see just behind the cockpit it is written Mi-17 5V, meaning they are new ones as we had not much of those dolphin shaped Mi-17s before, but in recent years we have started to see more of these in our service as they are more suited for our needs.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/2/7/3/1650372.jpg

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

danger-zone said:


> although this is not a PAF's bird but they can travel it and it belongs to Pakistani aviation... a few details of image to point out here that might disappoint our INDIAN fellows.
> enjoy the beautiful and colorful picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *March 6, 2011*: _Pakistan Army - Mil Mi-17-1V St. Petersburg (Leningrad) - Pulkovo (LED / ULLI) *Russia*, _
> are these upgraded by *Russian* or they are new ... or ye kia kia laga k ur raha hai



at least 10 new examples are on order and delivery


----------



## TOPGUN

How come we don't have any armed versions of the Mi-17 's?


----------



## james1122

PAF must go for this to fortify its strength


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

Overhauled Chopper, looking NEW 




Lithuania, April 2, 2011 : *Pakistan - Army Mil Mi-171 Overhauled in Lithuanian helicopter maintenance company*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

_China, March 26, 2011 :_ *Pakistan - Air Force Lockheed C-130E-I Hercules (L-382) at Beijing - Capital. *

ye to china se MUN KALA kerwa ke a gaya . take a look at its last picture and nose captured at AIR SHOW CHINA.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

NO OF TIMES IL-78 spotted in Pisa, Italy. 

*March 14, 2011
April 19, 2011
April 19, 2011*

also C-130 spotted on *April 27, 2011*

and pictures...





*Italy, April 20, 2011*





*Italy, April 19, 2011*





*Italy, April 27, 2011*

lagta hai ye bohat bari khaip le ker aa rahay hain..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

_May 2, 2011_: *Pakistan Air Force Lockheed C-130E Hercules (L-382) at Skardu (KDU / OPSD) Pakistan *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

danger-zone said:


> _May 2, 2011_: *Pakistan Air Force Lockheed C-130E Hercules (L-382) at Skardu (KDU / OPSD) Pakistan *


 
do we need external fuel tanks to go to skardu??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

^ nop buddy, u will always see these tanks on Hercules.


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

_May 01, 2011:_ *Pakistan Air Force Lockheed C-130E Hercules at St. John's Airport - CYYT Canada*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Najam Khan

IST Istanbul [Ataturk/Yesilkoy International Airport], Turkey
17-January-2011






FRA Frankfurt [Rhein-Main], Germany
8-March-1986
Manfred Faber





CGN Koeln (Koln,Cologne)/Bonn [Nordrhein-Westfalen], Germany
29-July-1980
Günter Grondstein


----------



## Areesh

danger-zone said:


> NO OF TIMES IL-78 spotted in Pisa, Italy.
> 
> *March 14, 2011
> April 19, 2011
> April 19, 2011*
> 
> also C-130 spotted on *April 27, 2011*
> 
> and pictures...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Italy, April 20, 2011*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Italy, April 19, 2011*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Italy, April 27, 2011*
> 
> lagta hai ye bohat bari khaip le ker aa rahay hain..


 
Italy sai kia maal lai kar aayen hai yeh?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## imiakhtar

First of the two Bell 412 being loaded onto AN-124 cargo plane.






Second Bell 412 loaded.

http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2010/05/18/73892/army.mil-73892-2010-06-04-100617.jpg

Being unloaded at ISB






Both chopper unloaded at Chaklala

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mabs

Ahh C-130, the old hog is still flying high eh. A lot of good memories from the time my father used to fly it. Here's one interesting incident. We were booked for a flight and were running late. The driver was driving the poor Potohar jeep like a F-16. Instead of going to the Air Movement which is the normal procedure, we just blasted on the tarmac and right in front of the Taxing C-130. My father gets out and signals his course-mate in the cockpit and C-130 comes to a complete halt. People are bewildered and thinking what's going on while a step ladder is hauled and placed at the front door of the beast. We get outa the jeep and march onto the plane like Mogul Emperors. The whole C-130 is looking at us and thinking " ohh so these are the people who couldn't get up on time,arrived late,ripped through all the SOP's and stopped the damn plane on the Taxiway. Our response was" don't hate the playas, hate the game"


----------



## Jango

about four years back when my father was CO of 599 EME at multan aviation base, a C130 with two cobras broken up into three pieces came, tail, rotor and body. the c130 blew over all of the flowerpots in the area in front of the office of the base commander office. and i was right behind the rotors and could.really feel the force, the cockpit was filled with dials. the cobras were then unloaded by forklift. it was a memorable occassion.


----------



## nomi007

in transport up gradation i never saw any statement by air chief
during 2005 earthquake & 2010 flood in Pakistan
USA c-130j & c-17 work efficiently for which i personally thankful to USA army & people of USA
their Chinooks & stallions work amazingly
so this year USA given us 2.1 billion us $ for defense we utilize that aid for purchasing 6 c-130j-30 & Chinooks c-47s


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> in transport up gradation i never saw any statement by air chief
> during 2005 earthquake & 2010 flood in Pakistan
> USA c-130j & c-17 work efficiently for which i personally thankful to USA army & people of USA
> their Chinooks & stallions work amazingly
> so this year USA given us 2.1 billion us $ for defense we utilize that aid for purchasing 6 c-130j-30 & Chinooks c-47s



no transport assets like C130 or C47 have been offered.
the US$2.1B aid will be used for purchase of
30 Bell 412 armed reconn helos
12 AH1Z Super cobras
Raven or Shadow UAV's
NVG's....and CI related equipment. this aid is now subject to congressional approval.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TOPGUN

fatman17 said:


> no transport assets like C130 or C47 have been offered.
> the US$2.1B aid will be used for purchase of
> 30 Bell 412 armed reconn helos
> 12 AH1Z Super cobras
> Raven or Shadow UAV's
> NVG's....and CI related equipment. this aid is now subject to congressional approval.


 
So super cobras will be there ?


----------



## Jango

danger-zone said:


> ^ nop buddy, u will always see these tanks on Hercules.


 
nope, when my father was at multan, C-130 frequently used to come there, but they more often than not had no tanks.


----------



## air marshal

PAF Ilyushin Il-78 Midas (serial# R09-001) photographed at Lajes Air Base, Portugal, on May 7, 2011.

Photo Pakistan - Air Force Ilyushin Il-78MP R09-001


----------



## fatman17

*Y-9 * 

The first Y-9 prototype (#941) is shown here parked at CFTE airfield. The design was first unveiled at the 11th Beijing Airshow in September 2005. Y-9 is the next generation medium-size and medium-range transport aircraft to replace the obsolete Y-8 series transport aircraft. It appears to have superceded the earlier Y-8-X project (initially dubbed Y-8U?). The aircraft features a spacious cargo cabin which can quickly load/unload maximum 20t containerized cargo, or airdrop 13.2t equipment or 98 paratroopers. It also has a 4-crew cockpit featuring 6 color MFDs and EFIS. The aircraft is equipped with advanced communication, navigation, radar, EGWPS, collision avoidance systems to ensure safe flight under all weather conditions. The aircraft will be powered by 4 WJ-6C turboprops (rated @ 5,100ehp each) with JL-4 6-blade propellers made of composite materials, which improve its high temperature and high altitude performance. Some specifications: max TO weight 65t, max payload 20t or 106 paratroopers, 15t payload range 2,200km, max range 5,000km, max level speed 650km/h, cruise speed 550km/h, service ceiling 10,100m, cruise altitude 8,000m. The development of Y-9 started officially in October 2005 and the construction of the first prototype (tail and head sections) started in 2006. However the project appeared to have been halted in 2007 due to shifting the production to the high priority High New series as well as Y-8C transport aircraft. The developement of Y-9 resumed in late 2008 after the two year delay and the first prototype was rumored to have made its maiden flight on November 5, 2010. 
- Last Updated 7/18/11 

_poor-mans C-130!_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

*International Team Pakistan's C-130 arrives at Rodeo held at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash., on July 19, 2011. Rodeo is the U.S. Air Force's and Air Mobility Command's premier international combat skills and flying operations competition designed to develop and improve techniques, procedures, and interoperability, while optimizing international mobility partnerships and enhancing mobility operations. [Picture courtesy: Tech. Sgt. Christine Jones]*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal

*Pakistan Air Force members and U.S. Air Force member that greeted them during their arrival at Rodeo on July 19, 2011, 2011, Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash. Rodeo is the U.S. Air Force's and Air Mobility Command's premier international combat skills and flying operations competition designed to develop and improve techniques, procedures, and interoperability, while optimizing international mobility partnerships and enhancing mobility operations. [Picture courtesy: Tech. Sgt. Christine Jones]*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## air marshal

*Members of the Pakstan Air Force conduct post-flight checks after a training mission to prepare for Air Mobility Rodeo 2011 at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash., July 22, 2011. Rodeo is the U.S. Air Force's and Air Mobility Command's premier international combat skills and flying operations competition designed to develop and improve techniques, procedures and interoperability, while optimizing international mobility partnerships and enhancing mobility operations. [Picture courtesy: Staff Sgt. Eric Harris]*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007

I THINK GOVT OF PAKISTAN MUST TO GENERATE FUND FOR 1 MOR IL-78 WHICH UKRAINIAN ALSO OFFER US
2ND UAE IS REPLACING C-130H WITH C-130J-30 MORE ADVANCE AND BIG VERSION OF C-130J
WE TRY TO TAKE THESE AIRCRAFTS SOON 
UAE HAVE 3 C-130H-30 WHICH IS BIG IN SIZE
AND 3 C-130H 
United Arab Emirates Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
M_Id_107208_UAE_plane.jpg (image)


----------



## Imran Khan



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## houshanghai

chengdu airport

thx &#34013;&#32982;

Reactions: Like Like:

3


----------



## fatman17

houshanghai said:


> chengdu airport
> 
> thx &#34013;&#32982;



in driving rain!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Manticore



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Manticore



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

ANTIBODY said:


>



The cockpit is also the same as PAF, if so, i must say, nice cockpit.


----------



## Manticore




----------



## Manticore



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

ANTIBODY said:


>



Cockpit pic is PAF Phenom-100, Embarer build, VIP transport.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TOPGUN

nabil_05 said:


> Cockpit pic is PAF Phenom-100, Embarer build, VIP transport.


 
What a beautyful little bird awsome really .


----------



## Manticore

please tell me this isnt only for luxury


----------



## ziaulislam

ANTIBODY said:


> please tell me this isnt only for luxury


 yup it is...actually we brought more than we needed..
as PIA was /may be privatized(it should be aimed to abolish corruption and 30 billion loses) the VIP role(like most countries) was to be shifted to PAF(i think it already has)..


----------



## fatman17

nabil_05 said:


> Cockpit pic is PAF Phenom-100, Embarer build, VIP transport.



if one looks closely at the 1st pic of the a/c, you can see the 'seats' of the a/c through the open door, they are different than the pic posted of the 'interior'. the phenoms dont come with that configuration!


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> *Y-9 *
> 
> The first Y-9 prototype (#941) is shown here parked at CFTE airfield. The design was first unveiled at the 11th Beijing Airshow in September 2005. Y-9 is the next generation medium-size and medium-range transport aircraft to replace the obsolete Y-8 series transport aircraft. It appears to have superceded the earlier Y-8-X project (initially dubbed Y-8U?). The aircraft features a spacious cargo cabin which can quickly load/unload maximum 20t containerized cargo, or airdrop 13.2t equipment or 98 paratroopers. It also has a 4-crew cockpit featuring 6 color MFDs and EFIS. The aircraft is equipped with advanced communication, navigation, radar, EGWPS, collision avoidance systems to ensure safe flight under all weather conditions. The aircraft will be powered by 4 WJ-6C turboprops (rated @ 5,100ehp each) with JL-4 6-blade propellers made of composite materials, which improve its high temperature and high altitude performance. Some specifications: max TO weight 65t, max payload 20t or 106 paratroopers, 15t payload range 2,200km, max range 5,000km, max level speed 650km/h, cruise speed 550km/h, service ceiling 10,100m, cruise altitude 8,000m. The development of Y-9 started officially in October 2005 and the construction of the first prototype (tail and head sections) started in 2006. However the project appeared to have been halted in 2007 due to shifting the production to the high priority High New series as well as Y-8C transport aircraft. The developement of Y-9 resumed in late 2008 after the two year delay and the first prototype was rumored to have made its maiden flight on November 5, 2010.
> - Last Updated 7/18/11
> _poor-mans C-130!_



*here is the article with pictures for Y-9 flight testing:*


> JULY 29, 2011: Y-9 undergoing flight testing
> Last week a picture emerged on a Chinese military website (cnair.top81.cn) of what is apparently a prototype of the Y-9. Following this, an industry source told Flightglobbal that it has yet to conduct its first flight, but *earlier this week *a news story appeared on the Internet that it was undergoing flight testing.
> the aircraft may well give its first public appearance at Zuhai Airshow 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos display, Y -9 transport aircraft produced by Shaanxi Aircraft Industry (Group) Co., Ltd. appeared on the airport of Flight Test Research Institute of China, which shows that this type of aerotransport is on test. The aircraft is a alternative of long-awaited Y -8 medium transport, and also the latest reformed aero transport of An-12 transport aircraft developed by Soviet-era Antonov Design Bureau.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-9 evolved from the conceptual design of Y-8X displaced at 2005 Beijing air show. it have a payload 20-tons, powered by four Wojiang FWJ-6C turboprop engines, and equipped with 6-bladed JL-4 composite propellers. a ferry range of 7800 KM with maximum payload and flight eduarance of 12 hours. he tail ramp will be capable of handling vehicle cargo. The aircraft is capable of transporting 25 tons of cargo, or configured with 106 troop seats in troop transport role, or 72 stretchers for medical evacuation role, or up to 132 armed paratroopers in para-drop role. The cargo space can handle nine standard 108"x88" pallets, or eight 125" x 96" pallets.



the Y-9 will be the perfect solution for Pakistan military tactical transport duties. it is reported to be on par with C-130J and wont have any on the disadvantages that come along with the US or European systems., that is, big big $$ game and lots of do's and dont's

regards!


----------



## Juice

ANTIBODY said:


> please tell me this isnt only for luxury


 
Been on lots of transports...never one like this...this is for VIP's, not soldiers!


----------



## Imran Khan

Juice said:


> Been on lots of transports...never one like this...this is for VIP's, not soldiers!


 
yes most of the time its used by 5 high ranked of Pakistan .


----------



## Manticore



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Manticore




----------



## razgriz19

phenom 100 is probably the smartest investment air force made in terms of transporting VIPs..
instead of flying into those big fuel thirsty jets, now they could use this! its a hell lot more fuel efficient than anything in our inventory!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

hassan1 said:


>



yep this went for a engine over-haul and a glass cockpit replacement - now back in service


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

*Pakistan - Air Force Lockheed C-130E Hercules (L-382) at Paris - Orly France, June 1, 1985*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

pics from ND member of history of PIA forum

i dont get place for navy transport so here its work well lolz



intreasted pic of PN fokker in red colors of maritime security agency .







PN defender at landing


----------



## Imran Khan



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

Imran Khan said:


>


c130 looks awsome


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

Imran Khan said:


>


c130 looks awsome is

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

Imran Khan said:


>


c130 looks awsome isnt it


----------



## Imran Khan



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## razgriz19

Imran Khan said:


>



i thought these aircrafts were retired...
didn't they already complete their life?

i heard these were VIP transport aircrafts, but were later turned into intelligence gathering/ECM aircraft after providing their service to VIP role for more than 25+ years!


----------



## razgriz19

in VIP colour scheme!


----------



## TOPGUN

razgriz19 said:


> i thought these aircrafts were retired...
> didn't they already complete their life?
> 
> i heard these were VIP transport aircrafts, but were later turned into intelligence gathering/ECM aircraft after providing their service to VIP role for more than 25+ years!



I belive they are still in service serving as ECM aircraft /jammers SQ called the "Blinders".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## houshanghai

chengdu shuangliu airport


link;
¶¦Ê¢ÂÛÌ³ ¾üÊÂÌìµØ 8ÔÂ16ÈÕ³É¶¼»ú³¡ÅÄµ½µÄ°ÍÌú¡¢¶ìÂÝË¿ÔËÊä¼¦

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

razgriz19 said:


> i thought these aircrafts were retired...
> didn't they already complete their life?
> 
> i heard these were VIP transport aircrafts, but were later turned into intelligence gathering/ECM aircraft after providing their service to VIP role for more than 25+ years!


 


TOPGUN said:


> I belive they are still in service serving as ECM aircraft /jammers SQ called the "Blinders".



Last time they participated in *Saffron Bandit 1999*, that means they are still in service and are not going any where for ten more years because recently they are upgraded from France


----------



## Arsalan

danger-zone said:


> Last time they participated in *Saffron Bandit 1999*, that means they are still in service and are not going any where for ten more years because recently they are upgraded from France



yes these are still operational. a friend of mine who is and Aeronautical engineer in PAF is stationed looking after these birds. as per my discussion with him, PAF seems o be quite happy with there performance and these are to remain in service for some time to come.

regards!


----------



## fatman17

razgriz19 said:


> i thought these aircrafts were retired...
> didn't they already complete their life?
> 
> i heard these were VIP transport aircrafts, but were later turned into intelligence gathering/ECM aircraft after providing their service to VIP role for more than 25+ years!



they have been upgrades to these ECM/ELINt a/c.


----------



## razgriz19

fatman17 said:


> they have been upgrades to these ECM/ELINt a/c.



but dassault have ended the production very long time ago, and im not even sure if they're making parts for this aircrafts.
so wouldn't it affect its operational availability?


----------



## TaimiKhan

razgriz19 said:


> but dassault have ended the production very long time ago, and im not even sure if they're making parts for this aircrafts.
> so wouldn't it affect its operational availability?



Production run of aircraft may be over, but the manufacturer & seller does keeps the supply chain of spare parts open and at the time of initial selling or purchase the manufacturer does guarantee the client 2-3 decades of continuous supply chain of spare parts.

I believe even Saab-2000 production run has ended, but we bought them from the original manufacturer and it has guaranteed 20 years or 25 years of spare parts supply arrangement.


----------



## fatman17

razgriz19 said:


> but dassault have ended the production very long time ago, and im not even sure if they're making parts for this aircrafts.
> so wouldn't it affect its operational availability?



no the civilian falcon design is being manufactured - so no spares issues - the upgrades are to military sensors.

---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------




TaimiKhan said:


> Production run of aircraft may be over, but the manufacturer & seller does keeps the supply chain of spare parts open and at the time of initial selling or purchase the manufacturer does guarantee the client 2-3 decades of continuous supply chain of spare parts.
> 
> I believe even Saab-2000 production run has ended, but we bought them from the original manufacturer and it has guaranteed 20 years or 25 years of spare parts supply arrangement.



TK - no spares supply chain is now available for mirage 3/5. thats why PAF has been buying retired mirages to convert into spares

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------




razgriz19 said:


> in VIP colour scheme!



x-man flew one of these falcon-20's to france to deliver for over-haul some years back!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer

---------- Post added at 09:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 09:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 AM ----------

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Windjammer

Courtesy : Adnan

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Manticore

sorry if posted earlier

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

any idea hoqw many c-130 do we operate(army,airforce)..is there any planes to get more?


----------



## fatman17

ziaulislam said:


> any idea hoqw many c-130 do we operate(army,airforce)..is there any planes to get more?



15 mil C-130
1 L-100 civilian C-130

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TOPGUN

fatman17 said:


> 15 mil C-130
> 1 L-100 civilian C-130




Fatman what is the difference between the reg C-130's we have and the L-100 we have ?


----------



## houshanghai

chengdu shuangliu airport this month

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> Fatman what is the difference between the reg C-130's we have and the L-100 we have ?



apparantly the L-100 has a 'interior' like a passenger plane. the civilian L-100 was purchased by PIA but then transferred to the PAF which removed the seat configuration and converted to cargo.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

is there is any plan to buy more transport plans for our airforce


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

Uffffff ... Beauty.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Manticore



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## muse

Pakistani engineers should study the IL76/8 wing design and structure with greater admiration and care.


----------



## fatman17

wasm95 said:


> is there is any plan to buy more transport plans for our airforce



not at this time.
15 C130E's upgraded to H standard
1 L100
3 CASA 235's
4 IL78 MRTTs should be enough

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

muse said:


> Pakistani engineers should study the IL76/8 wing design and structure with greater admiration and care.



Then ! what exactly we can do to it ?


----------



## houshanghai

chengdu
pic from chinese sina mini blog 

thx kd-liu

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

the IL78 is being used more as a transport than a air refueller at this point.


----------



## Imran Khan

houshanghai said:


> chengdu
> pic from chinese sina mini blog
> 
> thx kd-liu




if pic is new then delivery started of 50 jf-17 as its being loaded with jf-17 on truck


----------



## Jango

fatman17 said:


> the IL78 is being used more as a transport than a air refueller at this point.



It was expected. We don't really need to do refueling much right now.


----------



## untitled

houshanghai said:


> chengdu
> pic from chinese sina mini blog
> 
> thx kd-liu




Is that a JF-17 fuselage ?


----------



## Jango

varigeo said:


> Is that a JF-17 fuselage ?



Looks like only an engine.


----------



## SQ8

nuclearpak said:


> Looks like only an engine.



Fuselage.. you can see the blended shape of the body.. also.. just an engine would no occupy that much space.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

Santro said:


> Fuselage.. you can see the blended shape of the body.. also.. just an engine would no occupy that much space.



Yeah, the sheet obscured it a bit. 

But, a few years back, some parts and other surfaces for the Cobras came in Multan , they were in crates, but this is in just plain sheet. No danger of damage?


----------



## SQ8

nuclearpak said:


> Yeah, the sheet obscured it a bit.
> 
> But, a few years back, some parts and other surfaces for the Cobras came in Multan , they were in crates, but this is in just plain sheet. No danger of damage?



Could be two things..

First.. if the Cobra's arrived via land.. so the crates are a necessity to protect them..and the Cobra has a very slender body..
the Jf is a much larger cargo.. the Il-78 may not be able to hold a Jf packed in a crate.. also.. the trip in a Il-78 is fairly safe.. a few hours from chengdu to Kamra.. 

two... JF-17.. Chinese Pakistani idea.. who cares about packaging and safety.
Cobra.. American idea.. they double wrap the toilet paper that is supplied to US troops in Afghanistan.. and this was a cobra.


----------



## Jango

Santro said:


> Could be two things..
> 
> First.. if the Cobra's arrived via land.. so the crates are a necessity to protect them..and the Cobra has a very slender body..
> the Jf is a much larger cargo.. the Il-78 may not be able to hold a Jf packed in a crate.. also.. the trip in a Il-78 is fairly safe.. a few hours from chengdu to Kamra..
> 
> two... JF-17.. Chinese Pakistani idea.. who cares about packaging and safety.
> Cobra.. American idea.. they double wrap the toilet paper that is supplied to US troops in Afghanistan.. and this was a cobra.



The cobra came in a C-130.


----------



## SQ8

nuclearpak said:


> The cobra came in a C-130.



Even then.. it did not come all the way from the US in a C-130.
Would a JF fit in a C-130?


----------



## untitled

Santro said:


> Even then.. it did not come all the way from the US in a C-130.
> Would a JF fit in a C-130?



I will miss the cookie monster


----------



## Jango

Santro said:


> Even then.. it did not come all the way from the US in a C-130.
> Would a JF fit in a C-130?



Maybe it did not come in a C-130 from US.

And no, I don't think a JF would fit in there.


----------



## fatman17

antonov ruslan 124 is used to transport JF17 fuselages, 2-3. the Midas can load engines and knocked down kits etc.


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

*Looks like business have been started *, Spotted in Russia. 




*Chkalovsky (CKL / UUMU) Russia, August 27, 2011*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*PAF C-130 at Dubai Airshow*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Originally delivered to the Imperial Iranian AF and sold to Pakistan.Rare view in the smart natural metal finish, as both before and after this time was camouflaged. Still current with 6 Sqn at Chaklala*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Skardu *

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*In Iran*

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Luftwaffe

Wondering PIA grounded Six A-310s and has signed MOU with Air Bus and Boeing to purchase Transport Fleet, Would it not be possible for PAF to acquire couple of these A-310s from PIA and with Air Bus help convert them to MRTT.


----------



## MJaa

Luftwaffe said:


> Wondering PIA grounded Six A-310s and has signed MOU with Air Bus and Boeing to purchase Transport Fleet, Would it not be possible for PAF to acquire couple of these A-310s from PIA and with Air Bus help convert them to MRTT.


i think that PIA got those Airbus A310s through lease agreement not purchase, can any one confirm?


----------



## Luftwaffe

MJaa said:


> i think that PIA got those Airbus A310s through lease agreement not purchase, can any one confirm?



You are right these A310s are on lease and PIA is planning to return but them, PAF can purchase them the cost would further get lower but if PIA purchases these and sell them to PAF it would be a more better secure deal. 

I don't know but I think PAF is capable to put them to good use Germany/Canada are already receiving A310s MRTT. Chilean Air Force has also purchased two second-hand A310s to replace its ageing 707&#8211;320 'Aguila' tanker and transports.

I think it is an interesting option.


----------



## Jango

Luftwaffe said:


> You are right these A310s are on lease and PIA is planning to return but them, PAF can purchase them the cost would further get lower but if PIA purchases these and sell them to PAF it would be a more better secure deal.
> 
> I don't know but I think PAF is capable to put them to good use Germany/Canada are already receiving A310s MRTT. Chilean Air Force has also purchased two second-hand A310s to replace its ageing 707&#8211;320 'Aguila' tanker and transports.
> 
> I think it is an interesting option.



There is no need really.

PAF already has 3 IL-78 Midas here 4th one is coming, so it is pretty enough.


----------



## Luftwaffe

nuclearpak said:


> There is no need really.
> 
> PAF already has 3 IL-78 Midas here 4th one is coming, so it is pretty enough.



F-16 Fleet?


----------



## Jango

Luftwaffe said:


> F-16 Fleet?



The question is, do you need refuelling for them?

BTW, PAF does operate one A310 for VIP duties. Although it is of of the government of Pakistan, and only maintained and flown by PAF.


----------



## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> The question is, do you need refuelling for them?
> 
> BTW, PAF does operate one A310 for VIP duties. Although it is of of the government of Pakistan, and only maintained and flown by PAF.



block-52 hac CFT so i don't think they need it abut old f-16 i think soon new punch of FC-20 is coming and these f-16 will not alone front line fighters fc-20 has mid ait refueling systems which will work with IL-78 i think il-78 is for fc-20 more then jf-17 .


----------



## fatman17

MJaa said:


> i think that PIA got those Airbus A310s through lease agreement not purchase, can any one confirm?



the A310 in PAF use was 'donated' by UAE.


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> the A310 in PAF use was 'donated' by UAE.



sir gee you are getting old  Qatar was gifted A-310 one of their VIP fleet to pakistan not UAE

it was CN-473 and OLD registration name was A7-AAF Airbus A310-304

here it was in 2006







and now AP-001

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Two Egyptian Hercules in two colours of Egypt AF with a Pakistani Hercules at Lajes*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*PAF 707*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Photographed whilst taking part in Exercise NEJAT 78.*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*PAF C-130 at Warsaw*

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## fatman17

GHOST RIDER said:


> *PAF 707*



how old are these pics!?


----------



## GHOST RIDER

fatman17 said:


> how old are these pics!?



First pic=1994
Second pic=2003
Third pic=1995
Fourth pic=1993

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Some more 707 pics*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

GHOST RIDER said:


> *In Iran*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*C-130 an Ankara *

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TOPGUN

Awsome pic's Ghost Rider thx bro keep up the good work


----------



## fatman17

GHOST RIDER said:


> First pic=1994
> Second pic=2003
> Third pic=1995
> Fourth pic=1993



sounds right as the 707's are now grounded/stored bcuz of high costs of ops


----------



## TOPGUN

fatman17 said:


> sounds right as the 707's are now grounded/stored bcuz of high costs of ops



Sir are they in workable conditon ? if needed ? and are they used just for heavy transport lift?


----------



## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> Sir are they in workable conditon ? if needed ? and are they used just for heavy transport lift?



they had a dual-role / troop transport and cargo.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

GHOST RIDER said:


> *Some more 707 pics*


 

First pic=1994
Second pic=1994
Third pic=2005
Fourth pic=1994
Fifth pic=2003


----------



## hassan1

all Boeing 707 phased out in 2008.


----------



## Aamir Hussain

GHOST RIDER said:


> *Two Egyptian Hercules in two colours of Egypt AF with a Pakistani Hercules at Lajes*




Seems like the middle herc is a stretched version.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Aamir Hussain said:


> Seems like the middle herc is a stretched version.



looks like a L-100


----------



## TOPGUN

fatman17 said:


> looks like a L-100



Fatman doesn't the PAF have a L-100 as well?


----------



## untitled

TOPGUN said:


> Fatman doesn't the PAF have a L-100 as well?



Yes it does


----------



## hassan1

The Lockheed L-100 Hercules was the Lockheed Corporation's less successful civilian variant of the prolific C-130 military transport aircraft. Its first flight occurred in 1964.A Lockheed L-100 Hercules cargo plane. PAF induct Lockheed L-100 aircrafts in 1966 from PIA.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER

pdf_shurtah said:


> Yes it does

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> Fatman doesn't the PAF have a L-100 as well?



yepper! but upgraded to C-130H standard

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

GHOST RIDER said:


>



Is this aircraft and the aircraft on post 320 same?

Both have 144 on the end of their numbers.


----------



## killerx

o yea right


----------



## Aamir Hussain

FM17 as far as I know the L-100 had some changes in the internal configuration but no changes externally.


----------



## fatman17

Aamir Hussain said:


> FM17 as far as I know the L-100 had some changes in the internal configuration but no changes externally.



thats correct!


----------



## nomi007

c-130 vs il-76

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nishan_101

I think PAC should have selected the C-295 for license production for PAF and like produced 11 of such machines in 3-5 years and may be more if they are able to gain more orders, and this is only possible when they have modified it with some of their own choice of modifications.


----------



## fatman17

*Y-9* 

The first Y-9 prototype (#941) is shown here parked at CFTE airfield. The design was first unveiled at the 11th Beijing Airshow in September 2005. Y-9 is the next generation medium-size and medium-range transport aircraft to replace the obsolete Y-8 transport aircraft. It appears to have superseded the earlier Y-8-X project (initially dubbed Y-8U?). The aircraft features a stretched cargo cabin which can quickly load/unload maximum 20t containerized cargo, or airdrop 13.2t equipment or 98 paratroopers. It also has a 4-crew cockpit featuring 6 color MFDs and EFIS. The aircraft is equipped with advanced communication, navigation, radar, EGWPS, collision avoidance systems to ensure safe flight under all weather conditions. Similar to the Y-8 "Category III Platform", Y-9 is powered by 4 WJ-6C turboprops (rated @ 5,100ehp each) with JL-4 6-blade propellers made of composite materials, which improve its high temperature and high altitude performance. It also has solid nose and tail cone housing a weather radar and other electronic equipment. An EO turret (containing FLIR/TV) is mounted underneath the nose for all weather/low altitude operation. Its horizontal tailplanes have additional samll vertial stabilizers intalled as well to improved its stability at low speeds. Some specifications: max TO weight 65t, max payload 20t or 106 paratroopers, 15t payload range 2,200km, max range 5,000km, max level speed 650km/h, cruise speed 550km/h, service ceiling 10,100m, cruise altitude 8,000m. The development of Y-9 started officially in October 2005 and the construction of the first prototype (tail and head sections) started in 2006. However the project appeared to have been halted in 2007 due to shifting the production to the high priority High New series as well as Y-8C transport aircraft. The development of Y-9 resumed in late 2008 after the two year delay and the first prototype was thought to have made its maiden flight on November 5, 2010. 

- Last Updated 2/16/12 

_poor man's C-130_


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

*Pakistan - Air Force C-130E Hercules (L-382) at Pardubice, Czech Republic, January 25, 2007*

*Has any one ever seen so many AWACs typo communication antennas under Fuselage of any PAF C-130 before. This is one strange looking bird. I guess it is converted for ELINT/ECM purposes, anyway shed some light Bros.*
here's an collection of this bird Photo Search Results | Airliners.net

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bratva

danger-zone said:


> *Pakistan - Air Force C-130E Hercules (L-382) at Pardubice, Czech Republic, January 25, 2007*
> 
> *Has any one ever seen so many AWACs typo communication antennas under Fuselage of any PAF C-130 before. This is one strange looking bird. I guess it is converted for ELINT/ECM purposes, anyway shed some light Bros.*
> here's an collection of this bird Photo Search Results | Airliners.net



Most probably it's the one which is being used by Pakistan Army for surveillance purposes in FATA and it has FLIR in it's nose. Communication antennas in my opinion is for communicating with ground forces

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nishan_101

Although I was with the fact that the PAF should have a transport fleet like this:
21 Y-9Ps
11 CN-295P instead of CN-235s
7 Il-78 for tanker and transport duties.


----------



## nomi007

soon Pakistan may get y-9
which has been revealed last daY




http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2012/03/could-this-be-first-y-9-in-flight-photo.html


----------



## aziqbal

how many C130 does Pakistan operate? also what is the troop carrying capacity for them>


----------



## Irfan Baloch

nomi007 said:


> soon Pakistan may get y-9
> which has been revealed last daY



revealed by who?
BBC?
CNN?
KGB?

why do you make such posts about the plane whose owner dont even know what you are talking about

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fatman17

mafiya said:


> Most probably it's the one which is being used by Pakistan Army for surveillance purposes in FATA and it has FLIR in it's nose. Communication antennas in my opinion is for communicating with ground forces



and other stuff!


----------



## aamerjamal

i wish instead of y9 we have money to buy y-20 or il-78 they both are damn beautiful.


----------



## Najam Khan

danger-zone said:


> *Has any one ever seen so many AWACs typo communication antennas under Fuselage of any PAF C-130 before. This is one strange looking bird. I guess it is converted for ELINT/ECM purposes, anyway shed some light Bros.*


Good find. It is some kind of VHF/UHF/SATCOM antennas. The ELINT C-130 has following small rotating ball under its nose. 

Star SAFIRE HD
http://www.alcione.org/FAM/C-26A_FAM_big1.jpg

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sancho

Picture of a C130 from PAF, taken on March the 6th, leaving Sao Jose dos Campos in Brazil (additional MAR 1 missiles or does PAF get any other Brazilian stuff?)


----------



## SQ8

sancho said:


> Picture of a C130 from PAF, taken on March the 6th, leaving Sao Jose dos Campos in Brazil (additional MAR 1 missiles or does PAF get any other Brazilian stuff?)



Rumored sale of MAA-1A and B's.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## S.U.R.B.



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

S.U.R.B. said:


>


which air base
i hope security is tight

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

nomi007 said:


> which air base
> i hope security is tight



Chaklala!!!


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

*March 28, 2012:* _Pakistan Air Force Lockheed C-130E Hercules (L-382) at Lajes / Azores Portugal._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Last Hope

*R11-03 IL-78 MRTT of pakistan air force landing at Aviano Air Base Italy taking delivery or MBDA SPADA-2000 air defense missiles .*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Last Hope said:


> *R11-03 IL-78 MRTT of pakistan air force landing at Aviano Air Base Italy taking delivery or MBDA SPADA-2000 air defense missiles .*



6 of 12 batteries of the spada SAM systems have been delivered.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## alimobin memon

fatman17 said:


> 6 of 12 batteries of the spada SAM systems have been delivered.



Can any one Describe Batteries , does it contain one missile system or some team


----------



## nomi007

alimobin memon said:


> Can any one Describe Batteries , does it contain one missile system or some team

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

C-130 AT DELHI

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mdcp

We should finish vip culture and spend that money on advance war planes


----------



## aziqbal

fatman17 said:


> 6 of 12 batteries of the spada SAM systems have been delivered.



No, Pakistan has got 10 confirmed Spada 2000 systems, with 200 missiles, so far 6 x Spada 2000 systems are delivered and this system is deployed at Kamra to protect PAC

in addition as for C130 inventory is concerned it is as follows

Pakistan got 

3 x C-130Bs in 1967 ex-Iranian 
5 x C-130H in 1974 ex-Iranian 
4 x C130B in 1963 
2 x C130B in 1975
3 x C130B in 1981
and 6 x C130E in 2007 ex-Australian

in total Pakistan has had delivered 23 x C130s of all varients, again this does not take into a/c damaged/lost/withdrawan from service

as far as I know 3 x C130s have be cannibalised for spares over the years


----------



## Nishan_101

Why didn't they bought it in any way like:
7 C-130s in 1963
7 C-130s in 1975
7 C-130s in 1988
7-11 CN-235s or similar in 1990s

So they might have a decent fleet of transport aircraft


----------



## nomi007

aziqbal said:


> No, Pakistan has got 10 confirmed Spada 2000 systems, with 200 missiles, so far 6 x Spada 2000 systems are delivered and this system is deployed at Kamra to protect PAC
> 
> in addition as for C130 inventory is concerned it is as follows
> 
> Pakistan got
> 
> 3 x C-130Bs in 1967 ex-Iranian
> 5 x C-130H in 1974 ex-Iranian
> 4 x C130B in 1963
> 2 x C130B in 1975
> 3 x C130B in 1981
> and 6 x C130E in 2007 ex-Australian
> 
> in total Pakistan has had delivered 23 x C130s of all varients, again this does not take into a/c damaged/lost/withdrawan from service
> 
> as far as I know 3 x C130s have be cannibalised for spares over the years


we only operate c-130 b\e models not h model
First 7 C-130B delivered by the U.S. in early 1960s, a further 4 C-130B and 5 C-130E delivered later from Iran, 2 civilian versions (L-100-20) transferred from PIA and 2 more ex-USAF C-130B models. All surviving B and E model aircraft modified with addition of Allison T56-A-15 turboprops and extended fatigue lives by Lockheed-Georgia Co. at Marietta by 1987. At least 25 attritional losses pre-1988[31] and 10 more in 1988.[69]

Sale of 6 ex-Australian C-130E with wing/engine/avionics upgrades, plus 1 aircraft for spare parts, concluded with U.S. in September 2004.[47][70] First aircraft delivered October/November 2005.[71] Avionics upgrades for the PAF's entire C-130 fleet also included, upgrades progressing as of 1 May 2009.[72]

During the 1965 war, modifications to enable rear ramp opening at speeds above 150 knots enabled C-130s to be used for night-time bombing of moderately defended targets.

One aircraft retrofitted with SABIR (Special Airborne Mission Installation & Response System) which is a FLIRT System that has Brite Star II and Star Safire III EO/IR sensors (this a 'bolt on system' and is installed in place of the parachute door) This system was extensively used during operation in FATA, for target acquisition and intel


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> we only operate c-130 b\e models not h model
> First 7 C-130B delivered by the U.S. in early 1960s, a further 4 C-130B and 5 C-130E delivered later from Iran, 2 civilian versions (L-100-20) transferred from PIA and 2 more ex-USAF C-130B models. All surviving B and E model aircraft modified with addition of Allison T56-A-15 turboprops and extended fatigue lives by Lockheed-Georgia Co. at Marietta by 1987. At least 25 attritional losses pre-1988[31] and 10 more in 1988.[69]
> 
> Sale of 6 ex-Australian C-130E with wing/engine/avionics upgrades, plus 1 aircraft for spare parts, concluded with U.S. in September 2004.[47][70] First aircraft delivered October/November 2005.[71] Avionics upgrades for the PAF's entire C-130 fleet also included, upgrades progressing as of 1 May 2009.[72]
> 
> During the 1965 war, modifications to enable rear ramp opening at speeds above 150 knots enabled C-130s to be used for night-time bombing of moderately defended targets.
> 
> One aircraft retrofitted with SABIR (Special Airborne Mission Installation & Response System) which is a FLIRT System that has Brite Star II and Star Safire III EO/IR sensors (this a 'bolt on system' and is installed in place of the parachute door) This system was extensively used during operation in FATA, for target acquisition and intel



all 16 C-130 updated to 'H' standard or ongoing.



aziqbal said:


> No, Pakistan has got 10 confirmed Spada 2000 systems, with 200 missiles, so far 6 x Spada 2000 systems are delivered and this system is deployed at Kamra to protect PAC
> 
> in addition as for C130 inventory is concerned it is as follows
> 
> Pakistan got
> 
> 3 x C-130Bs in 1967 ex-Iranian
> 5 x C-130H in 1974 ex-Iranian
> 4 x C130B in 1963
> 2 x C130B in 1975
> 3 x C130B in 1981
> and 6 x C130E in 2007 ex-Australian
> 
> in total Pakistan has had delivered 23 x C130s of all varients, again this does not take into a/c damaged/lost/withdrawan from service
> 
> as far as I know 3 x C130s have be cannibalised for spares over the years



16 in service now.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ice_man

danger-zone said:


> *March 28, 2012:* _Pakistan Air Force Lockheed C-130E Hercules (L-382) at Lajes / Azores Portugal._



portugal?? why what was our plane doing there?


----------



## Jango

ice_man said:


> portugal?? why what was our plane doing there?



Lajes airfield is a common stop for PAF aircraft coming from Europe towards Pakistan. It serves as a refueling station and for a little rest.


----------



## ice_man

nuclearpak said:


> Lajes airfield is a common stop for PAF aircraft coming from Europe towards Pakistan. It serves as a refueling station and for a little rest.



bro to get to brazil where does PAF usually stop over? and secondly i thought turkey was mostly our stop over instead of Lejas.


----------



## Jango

Lajes is not only a stopover for PAF, but other airforces going East to west as well.






These F-16's are also at Lajes airfield on way to US.



ice_man said:


> bro to get to brazil where does PAF usually stop over? and secondly i thought turkey was mostly our stop over instead of Lejas.



Why wuld PAF go to Brazil???

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ice_man

nuclearpak said:


> Lajes is not only a stopover for PAF, but other airforces going East to west as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These F-16's are also at Lajes airfield on way to US.
> 
> 
> 
> Why wuld PAF go to Brazil???



there is a picture of PAF in brazil for the delievery of MAR1 missiles.


----------



## Jango

ice_man said:


> there is a picture of PAF in brazil for the delievery of MAR1 missiles.



But we don't usually go there. This was for the MAR-1, but not much else.

US/Europe is a routine stop.

BTW< I dont know where they stopped. probably Lajes i think. Some other member can shed some light on this.


----------



## Nishan_101

I think PAC, China and Ukraine along with Saudi Arabia and may be UAE should do a JV to develop there own three classes of Transport aircraft.
Il-76 Class
A-400M Class
CN-295 Class

PAF in actual means need at leastif good budget is available)
*11 Il-76 Class( 5 As Tanker transport and 6 for transport or vice versa)
21 A-400M Class
11 CN-295 Class*


----------



## aziqbal

do you u usually just pull numbers out of a hat or is this a one off?

why exactly would PAF need 21 A-400, do you even know the transport requirments of PAF


----------



## Jango

Do you know how much would 21 A400's would cost?


----------



## Luftwaffe

Nishan_101 said:


> I think PAC, China and Ukraine along with Saudi Arabia and may be UAE should do a JV to develop there own three classes of Transport aircraft.
> Il-76 Class
> A-400M Class
> CN-295 Class
> 
> PAF in actual means need at leastif good budget is available)
> *11 Il-76 Class( 5 As Tanker transport and 6 for transport or vice versa)
> 21 A-400M Class
> 11 CN-295 Class*



It takes alot JV is a hassle requires time-money. Europeans would never sell you A-400M besides it costs &#8364;136M. 

From point of view of Cost-Platform familiarity, Future investment should go towards C-130J as the rightful replacement for C-130E/H and 18 would cost appx $1.3B IF the number are to be reduced to say 12 it would cost appx $875M. IF the number is to be split between LM C-130 12 And Y-9 Class due to cost still it is pretty feasible and cheap. Y-9 Class since PAF is operating Y-8 based AEW&C has a platform compatibility-similarity affordability. The only possible future options so far is C-130J/Y-9, again These Hercules would probably fly for the next 10-12 Years or so before PAF hunts for the replacement.


----------



## Nishan_101

Luftwaffe said:


> It takes alot JV is a hassle requires time-money. Europeans would never sell you A-400M besides it costs 136M.
> 
> From point of view of Cost-Platform familiarity, Future investment should go towards C-130J as the rightful replacement for C-130E/H and 18 would cost appx $1.3B IF the number are to be reduced to say 12 it would cost appx $875M. IF the number is to be split between LM C-130 12 And Y-9 Class due to cost still it is pretty feasible and cheap. Y-9 Class since PAF is operating Y-8 based AEW&C has a platform compatibility-similarity affordability. The only possible future options so far is C-130J/Y-9, again These Hercules would probably fly for the next 10-12 Years or so before PAF hunts for the replacement.


 
Actually I only mean that JV is a good option not buying A-400M or C-130Js both aren't fesible because of cost and other matters. A JV between China, Pakistan and Ukraine along with Saudi Arabia and UAE for the three classes of projects. This would be cheap and will gain a lot of knowledge.


----------



## ice_man

Nishan_101 said:


> Actually I only mean that JV is a good option not buying A-400M or C-130Js both aren't fesible because of cost and other matters. A JV between China, Pakistan and Ukraine along with Saudi Arabia and UAE for the three classes of projects. This would be cheap and will gain a lot of knowledge.



brother in any JOINT VENTURE everyone needs to bring something to the table! what can SAUDI,UAE & PAKSITAN BRING??? ukraine and china are self sufficent to manufacture things. Saudis and UAE can fund (which even china has enough to do it themselves). what will pakistan's input be????

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jango



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Luftwaffe

Nishan_101 said:


> C-130Js both aren't fesible because of cost and other matters. A JV between China, Pakistan and Ukraine along with Saudi Arabia and UAE for the three classes of projects. This would be cheap and will gain a lot of knowledge.



There is no other option the cheapest is Y-9; followed by C-130J. There is no other Transport with-in the cost-range [not including CN-235/CASA C-295].

China is working on Y-20; That would take time to be operational once development and testing completes, not before 2020. Would PAF go that way post 2024..?


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

Luftwaffe said:


> There is no other option the cheapest is Y-9; followed by* C-130J*. There is no other Transport with-in the cost-range [not including CN-235/CASA C-295].
> 
> China is working on Y-20; That would take time to be operational once development and testing completes, not before 2020. Would PAF go that way post 2024..?



I guess C-130J cannot be in our range because last time when we bought/get C-130E/H, we get the used / retired pieces and upgraded them later. Much cheaper to new C-130E/H ... So how can we buy J version. 
U know what m trying to say here. !


----------



## Luftwaffe

danger-zone said:


> I guess C-130J cannot be in our range because last time when we bought/get C-130E/H, we get the used / retired pieces and upgraded them later. Much cheaper to new C-130E/H ... So how can we buy J version.
> U know what m trying to say here. !



It was a good buy for PAF and have been and are being heavily upgraded to H Standards But there is limitation how long would these be upgraded, refurbished; by 2024 PAF would need to replace them with something.


----------



## Jango

The US-Pak relations will be a big factor if any C-130 J are indeed going to be bought.

It is not easy dealing with the yanks.


----------



## sancho

Luftwaffe said:


> There is no other option the cheapest is Y-9; followed by C-130J. There is no other Transport with-in the cost-range [not including CN-235/CASA C-295].



What about AN 70, shouldn't it be an option for PAF as well?


----------



## SQ8

sancho said:


> What about AN 70, shouldn't it be an option for PAF as well?



Unlikely.. the platform is too complex(propfans) and relatively untested and unreliable(a lot of Russian input) for the PAF and has never been considered. 
The PAF still considers more C-130's as the best solution, they know pretty much everything about them.. including all sorts of _Jugar_(make do) ways to keep them operational even in sanctions. And it is still an excellent airlifter even today.
So why fix something that is NOT broken.
If the PAF could afford it, they would not hesitate to try for C-130J's...
Currently ..they are still scouring the market for older C-130's that can be bought cheap and then refurbished.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Donatello

Luftwaffe said:


> It was a good buy for PAF and have been and are being heavily upgraded to H Standards But there is limitation how long would these be upgraded, refurbished; by 2024 PAF would need to replace them with something.



Hey man,

At the current rate of priorities for all armed forces and the way economy is, i don't see we can replace the C130s even in 2024. Plus Western equipment prices go up as time goes by. The best bet is Chinese Transport planes. As China increases it's defense budge year by year, expect some big improvements in the next 5 years.

I hope China continues to grow at its current pace for at least 10 more years, that way Pakistan would benefit as well.


Now only if we could get Chinese Economists to advise on our economy...


----------



## itaskol

Donatello said:


> Now only if we could get Chinese Economists to advise on our economy...


chinese economists can not help, they are not better then any other economists.
but chinese investment or loans maybe can.
what pakistan need is money and technolgy.

tranpost is not priority for defender
chinait self is short of tranport


----------



## Luftwaffe

Oscar said:


> If the PAF could afford it, they would not hesitate to try for C-130J's...
> Currently ..they are still scouring the market for older C-130's that can be bought cheap and then refurbished.



Someday PAF would need to spend on whether C-130J or some other western platform preferably. 

Turkish Air Force bought 6 C-130Es from RSAF for $70M-$75M, that is considered bang for the buck!, IF there are C-130Es in US Inventory under EDA, PAF should acquire them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Luftwaffe

Donatello said:


> At the current rate of priorities for all armed forces and the way economy is, i don't see we can replace the C130s even in 2024



Regardless, These C-130E are being upgraded refurbished a number of times over the period of their life; 2024-2026 would be the time to replace them, C-130J. PAF is familiar with this platform has maintained and operated Hercules for 48 Years, therefore it would be much in the interested for PAF to go for C-130J or any new variant that comes-in in the Future. 

But would like to see Y-20 Series or C-17 in PAF colors in the next decade. But a long way to go for Y-20 and C-17 is not in our budget and currently not the requirement.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

*All Herks Now Grey:*
gone are the days of all PAF's Hercules sporting different colours - the fleet has now been sprayed grey point scheme. they allow carry a white & grey roundel and flag. all herks carry the insignia of the squadron they represent which is worn on the nose of the aircraft.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

fatman17 said:


> *All Herks Now Grey:*
> gone are the days of all PAF's Hercules sporting different colours - the fleet has now been sprayed grey point scheme. they allow carry a white & grey roundel and flag. all herks carry the insignia of the squadron they represent which is worn on the nose of the aircraft.



Its wrong sir, i ve seen three C-130 at Chaklala having Jungle-Cameo one of them was fitted with FLIR.
Either Alen Sb got drunk or he is miss informed.


----------



## imiakhtar

An opportunity to pick up some bargains:

Australia axes C-130H fleet in sweeping defence cuts


----------



## SQ8

danger-zone said:


> Its wrong sir, i ve seen three C-130 at Chaklala having Jungle-Cameo one of them was fitted with FLIR.
> Either Alen Sb got drunk or he is miss informed.



Its all in the process, Painting a Herc is not a day job.
Eventually, all hercs will be grey..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jango

Imran Khan said:


>



Hey hey hey.

THe registration number has changed of the A-310. Previously it was AP-OOI, now it is J757, meaning it has got a military registration number now rather than a civilian one.



Oscar said:


> Its all in the process, Painting a Herc is not a day job.
> Eventually, all hercs will be grey..



Where are the Hercs painted?

THe Army aviation paint job was a pretty bad one for the Helis!!!


----------



## SQ8

nuclearpak said:


> Hey hey hey.
> 
> THe registration number has changed of the A-310. Previously it was AP-OOI, now it is J757, meaning it has got a military registration number now rather than a civilian one.
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the Hercs painted?
> 
> THe Army aviation paint job was a pretty bad one for the Helis!!!



That big camo hanger..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Amir.MI-171

Thanx for info...


----------



## Donatello

Why would PAF buy A310?


----------



## Jango

Donatello said:


> Why would PAF buy A310?



That was gifted by Qatar for VVIP use.

PAF maintains and flies it. While the in-flight catering and major maintenance is done by PIA.


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

^they should change the livery of the aircraft


----------



## TOPGUN

fatman17 said:


> ^they should change the livery of the aircraft


\

I agree looks too much like a PIA aircraft .. is that the only aircraft of the kind in the PAF correct ?


----------



## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> \
> 
> I agree looks too much like a PIA aircraft .. is that the only aircraft of the kind in the PAF correct ?



previously there were 3 examples of Boeing 707 taken from PIA but they are now too expensive to operate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

In ITALY.

Looks like some more furniture is being brought in!!!

BTW< why are the engines covered on one side but not on the other??

Or are they not running the GPU/ APU and using the aircraft engine for power? Which seems unlikely.

They are covered on the right side, while left side engines are not covered.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sugarcane



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007

Alenia C-27J Spartan-shares common engines and other systems with C-130J
Unit cost US$53.3 million (2012)
c-130j Unit cost US$65 million (C-130J 2008 flyaway cost)
but still we go for old Australian c-130h
on the other hand uae also retiring old c-130h model
that are also good for us
hope paf also seeing planes

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ice_man

C-27J is fairly a nerw plane hence PAF han't even considered it! while C-130 is tested over the decades & is like a toyota of aviation!


----------



## hassan1

PAF L-100

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> Alenia C-27J Spartan-shares common engines and other systems with C-130J
> Unit cost US$53.3 million (2012)
> c-130j Unit cost US$65 million (C-130J 2008 flyaway cost)
> but still we go for old Australian c-130h
> on the other hand uae also retiring old c-130h model
> that are also good for us
> hope paf also seeing planes



we r better off buying refurbished IL-78's. they carry 3 times the load of a C130/C27.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Jango

Now that's intense.


----------



## fatman17

*Y-9* 


A newly produced Y-9 was taking off from the SAC airfield, ready to be delivered to PLAAF. This design was first unveiled at the 11th Beijing Airshow in September 2005 as the next generation medium transport aircraft to replace the obsolete Y-8/An-12. It appears to have superseded the earlier Y-8-X project (initially dubbed Y-8U?). The aircraft features a stretched cargo cabin which can quickly load/unload maximum 20t containerized cargo, or airdrop 13.2t equipment or 98 paratroopers. It also has a 4-crew cockpit featuring 6 color MFDs and EFIS. The aircraft is equipped with advanced communication, navigation, radar, EGWPS, collision avoidance systems to ensure safe flight under all weather conditions. Similar to the Y-8 "Category III Platform", Y-9 is powered by 4 WJ-6C turboprops (rated @ 5,100ehp each) with JL-4 6-blade high efficiency propellers made of composite materials, which improve its high temperature and high altitude performance. It also has solid nose and tail cone housing a weather radar and additional electronic equipment. An EO turret (containing FLIR/TV) is mounted underneath the nose for all weather/low altitude operation. Its horizontal tailplanes have additional samll vertial stabilizers intalled as well to improved its stability at low speed. Some specifications: max TO weight 65t, max payload 20t or 106 paratroopers, 15t payload range 2,200km, max range 5,000km, max level speed 650km/h, cruise speed 550km/h, service ceiling 10,100m, cruise altitude 8,000m. The development of Y-9 started officially in October 2005 and the construction of the first prototype (tail and head sections) started in 2006. However the project appeared to have been halted in 2007 due to shifting the production to the high priority High New series as well as Y-8C transport aircraft. The development resumed in late 2008 after the two year delay and the first prototype was believed to have made its maiden flight on November 5, 2010. At least one Y-9 prototype (#741) has been undergoing tests at CFTE. 

- Last Updated 7/7/12 

_china's answer to the C-130 _



nuclearpak said:


> Now that's intense.



repairable damage!


----------



## Bratva

Pakistani government never released the crash photos of General Zia C-130?


----------



## fatman17

mafiya said:


> Pakistani government never released the crash photos of General Zia C-130?



nothing was left of the burnt airframe. BTW some debries inc an engine are still dumped at mtn AFB.


----------



## The bridge

Just out of curiosity, what aircraft is used in Pakistan for VIP movements (President, Prime Minister and likes)??


----------



## fatman17

The bridge said:


> Just out of curiosity, what aircraft is used in Pakistan for VIP movements (President, Prime Minister and likes)??



A310
C235
many business a/c and helos.


----------



## Jango

fatman17 said:


> nothing was left of the burnt airframe. BTW some debries inc an engine are still dumped at mtn AFB.



Multan Aviation base?

There is a little junkyard there with three Mi-8's sitting across the tarmac!!!


----------



## Mani2020

fatman17 said:


> A310
> C235
> many business a/c and helos.



boeing 747 as far as i know is the primary aircraft for international visits


----------



## Jango

Mani2020 said:


> boeing 747 as far as i know is the primary aircraft for international visits



the A-310 is the only wide body aircraft used by the top government officials.

it is also used for all international visits and delegations.

No 747 is used.


----------



## Imran Khan

Mani2020 said:


> boeing 747 as far as i know is the primary aircraft for international visits



nope but A-310 and GULFSTRAMs are


----------



## Mani2020

Imran Khan said:


> nope but A-310 and GULFSTRAMs are



i read it once, dont know may have either messed up the report or typical blunt media report


----------



## fatman17

nuclearpak said:


> Multan Aviation base?
> 
> There is a little junkyard there with three Mi-8's sitting across the tarmac!!!



greater multan airport is divided into 3 parts - civil, airforce, army aviation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Najam Khan

fatman17 said:


> we r better off buying refurbished IL-78's. they carry 3 times the load of a C130/C27.



In addition to that, there is always an inherent risk in buying small package of aircraft. Sometimes X number of aircraft gets grounded too...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

picture taken at yesterday( by cashy pia forum ) green cammo C-130 at chaklala air base its painted new ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hyperion

Nahin yara, If I remember correctly that is a very old cammo!



Imran Khan said:


> picture taken at yesterday( by cashy pia forum ) green cammo C-130 at chaklala air base its painted new ?


----------



## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> picture taken at yesterday( by cashy pia forum ) green cammo C-130 at chaklala air base its painted new ?



This looks kind of more green.

For comparison, here is the other jungle camo paint.






I have never seen this camo before though.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Imran Khan said:


> picture taken at yesterday( by cashy pia forum ) green cammo C-130 at chaklala air base its painted new ?



all 16 aircraft will be painted in this camo!!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Jango

fatman17 said:


> all 16 aircraft will be painted in this camo!!



What about the ones that are to be operated at Sindh areas? Wouldn't this camo stand out? And also, the grey camo is being phased out?


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> all 16 aircraft will be painted in this camo!!




thats what i said its new cammo thanks sir jee

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer

Not sure if it's been posted before, but check out all the antennas on this C-130.
Can some one shed some light on this version please.


----------



## Fieldmarshal

Windjammer said:


> Not sure if it's been posted before, but check out all the antennas on this C-130.
> Can some one shed some light on this version please.



this ac has the flair system installed on it and it is this ac that played a very major role in the capture of the terrorists at kamra.


----------



## Windjammer

Fieldmarshal said:


> this ac has the flair system installed on it and it is this ac that played a very major role in the capture of the terrorists at kamra.



Do you mean locating their signals, since i believe all were killed and none were captured. ??


----------



## TaimiKhan

Fieldmarshal said:


> this ac has the flair system installed on it and it is this ac that played a very major role in the capture of the terrorists at kamra.



This is the some kind of EW C-130 (#4727), with no FLIR system. Before #4282 used to have this many antennas, don't know if 4282 has been re-numbered as 4727 or we have two 4727 & 4282 with some EW kind of equipment.

The C-130(#3702) in post#413 in the new woodland camo is the one having the FLIR system. If you guys can enlarge the pic, you will see the FLIR mounting in light gray color just under the nose.



Windjammer said:


> Do you mean locating their signals, since i believe all were killed and none were captured. ??



The C-130 in the new woodland green camo with 2 IL-78s is having the FLIR system, very effective at night operations.

The one you are referring to is just some EW equipped aircraft.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> This is the some kind of EW C-130 (#4727), with no FLIR system. Before #4282 used to have this many antennas, don't know if 4282 has been re-numbered as 4727 or we have two 4727 & 4282 with some EW kind of equipment.



4282 is the c/n of the aircraft with serial number #4727.

Are you referring 4282 as serial number or c/n? Because c/n 4282 is serial number 4727


----------



## TaimiKhan

nuclearpak said:


> 4282 is the c/n of the aircraft with serial number #4727.
> 
> Are you referring 4282 as serial number or c/n? Because c/n 4282 is serial number 4727



No idea what u r trying to say or just said. Below is what 4282 is with soooooooooo many antennas:

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/9893/1778456.jpg


----------



## Najam Khan

nuclearpak said:


> 4282 is the c/n of the aircraft with serial number #4727.
> 
> Are you referring 4282 as serial number or c/n? Because c/n 4282 is serial number 4727



C-130E Serial# 3536 and 3702 are believed to have Star Fire EO/IR turrets. C-130E Serial#4282 (I think with old number 4727, as said by you) with lots of antennas underneath lower fuselage is used for COMINT (Communications Intelligence). Most of these aircraft are assigned to No.21 Sqn..which is not a transport squadron

Photo below. USAF C-130 with EO/IR Turret and related senors.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Jango

Those antennas under serial number 4727 have been since 1994.

Mystery solved gents. 4727 has indeed been re-numbered and repainted to 4282 and grey camo, sometime between 2007 and 2010. 2007 was the last time the jungle camo and 4727 (c/n 4282) was seen, and 2010 was the first time a grey camo aircraft (pics in post 424 by TaimiKhan) was seen, sporting serial number 4282. 

Aircraft in post 424 and 415 are same.

And the construction number of both aircraft is same i.e 4282. So, PAF changed the color scheme and serial number from 4727 to 4282 to confuse us! Darn PAF.



Najam Khan said:


> Most of these aircraft are assigned to No.21 Sqn..which is not a transport squadron



21 Sqn is at Masroor right?


----------



## Bratva

Najam Khan said:


> C-130E Serial# 3536 and* 3702* are believed to have Star Fire EO/IR turrets.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Arsalan

nuclearpak said:


> 21 Sqn is at Masroor right?



No, it is based at PAF Base Faisal - Karachi!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

mafiya said:


>



Yup, If you look closely at the tail, 3702 is visible.

Same aircraft in 2011. Both camos look alike. So, no new paint scheme? Seems like a year old paint scheme.






FLIR is also visible.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## imiakhtar

fatman17 said:


> we r better off buying refurbished IL-78's. they carry 3 times the load of a C130/C27.


 
I disagree. 

Whilst you're correct in pointing out the payload advantage of the IL-78, you fail to mention the host of negatives that come with operating a jet transport of that size, some of which I'll bullet point below:

-Despite it's excellent landing gear with multiple bogies, the IL-78 has a higher PCN (pavement classification number), meaning the landing surface has to be a certain strength. The C-27/C-130 are pretty much unrestricted in that regard.

-Turboprop aircraft are much more fuel efficient than jet transports, especially between props and russian jets! Makes a difference when your defence budget is stretched. Also note, the props on a C-130 are much more reliable, have a greater TBO and are cheaper to repair and/or acquire due to the huge spares market.

-Turboprop aircraft have better acceleration and STOL performance compared to jets. This is an especially important capability given Pakistan's varying terrain and past requirements needing to operate out of unprepared strips.

Having said that, the IL-78s were obviously needed for the jf-17, spada and grifo transport requirements.

I just hope that given the vintage nature of Pakistan's C-130 fleet and the types replacement with the C-17 and A400M in Western forces that the PAF manages to acquire some bargains!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Luftwaffe

imiakhtar said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Whilst you're correct in pointing out the payload advantage of the IL-78, you fail to mention the host of negatives that come with operating a jet transport of that size, some of which I'll bullet point below:
> 
> -Despite it's excellent landing gear with multiple bogies, the IL-78 has a higher PCN (pavement classification number), meaning the landing surface has to be a certain strength. The C-27/C-130 are pretty much unrestricted in that regard.
> 
> -Turboprop aircraft are much more fuel efficient than jet transports, especially between props and russian jets! Makes a difference when your defence budget is stretched. Also note, the props on a C-130 are much more reliable, have a greater TBO and are cheaper to repair and/or acquire due to the huge spares market.
> 
> -Turboprop aircraft have better acceleration and STOL performance compared to jets. This is an especially important capability given Pakistan's varying terrain and past requirements needing to operate out of unprepared strips.
> 
> Having said that, the IL-78s were obviously needed for the jf-17, spada and grifo transport requirements.
> 
> I just hope that given the vintage nature of Pakistan's C-130 fleet and the types replacement with the C-17 and A400M in Western forces that the PAF manages to acquire some bargains!



Almost all landing surfaces are Standard around those are not build in a way that pose danger to airplanes so the problem is solved you should be familiar with Airport Runway building standards all runways are built on international standards.

C-130 costs more then IL-76/IL-78 having said that IL-78 for its size is great when it comes to price tag. An extra 3 IL-76/78 are not cost over burdens otherwise you'll need to procure 3 C-130s for every 1 IL-76/78 the cost of maintenance is nullified you'll spend close to that on IL-76/78 as much as on 3 C-130s. IL-76/78 are reliable Transport with its flight history dating back to early 1971-82 till date.

I think if PAF top brass wanted they would have bought KC-130s for only Air refueling and C-130 non air refueller for Transports purposes here again you would have needed to pay more get more in numbers and maintain two different variants.

For our overall Transport activities-purposes IL-78 fullfills that role greatly efficiently and for Air Refueling Role it serves PAF along side Transport Role again effectively 2 in 1 Role multipurpose which C-130 couldn't do. 

So I think there are no Negatives attached with IL-78 specially when the number is 4 and might increase to 4 more in future or should.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Last Hope

Luftwaffe said:


> Almost all landing surfaces are Standard around those are not build in a way that pose danger to airplanes so the problem is solved you should be familiar with Airport Runway building standards all runways are built on international standards.
> 
> C-130 costs more then IL-76/IL-78 having said that IL-78 for its size is great when it comes to price tag. An extra 3 IL-76/78 are not cost over burdens otherwise you'll need to procure 3 C-130s for every 1 IL-76/78 the cost of maintenance is nullified you'll spend close to that on IL-76/78 as much as on 3 C-130s. IL-76/78 are reliable Transport with its flight history dating back to early 1971-82 till date.
> 
> I think if PAF top brass wanted they would have bought KC-130s for only Air refueling and C-130 non air refueller for Transports purposes here again you would have needed to pay more get more in numbers and maintain two different variants.
> 
> For our overall Transport activities-purposes IL-78 fullfills that role greatly efficiently and for Air Refueling Role it serves PAF along side Transport Role again effectively 2 in 1 Role multipurpose which C-130 couldn't do.
> 
> *So I think there are no Negatives attached with IL-78 specially when the number is 4 and might increase to 4 more in future or should.*



The negatives attached to IL-78 are that they can _currently_ *ONLY* refuel the Mirage aircraft with A2A capability. Latter on the JF-17s would come under the list too. The biggest disadvantage is that they can not refuel the F-16s or C-130s or any AWACS/AEW&Cs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

The biggest advantage the C-130 has is that it is a adaptable workhorse. Landing at unpaved surfaces, a propeller engine, STOL etc. On range, speed, service ceiling, the Midas takes it hand down.

What is the difference between the EW C-130 that PAF has, and the EC-130 of USAF?

Tail fin for one, but what is the difference in the operational area of both?

Is PAF C-130 only for Intel or for aggressive EW?


----------



## Pak47

We all have seen the C-130 Gunship..






are these for export? What countries have these besides U.S.?


----------



## Abingdonboy

Pak47 said:


> We all have seen the C-130 Gunship..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are these for export? What countries have these besides U.S.?



Just like the F-22 and B-2 the AC-130 is not for export- only USAF operates them.


----------



## Last Hope

Talks related to KC-130 can be diverted to this thread. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/146001-lockheed-unveils-two-future-c-130-variants.html


----------



## Luftwaffe

Last Hope said:


> The negatives attached to IL-78 are that they can _currently_ *ONLY* refuel the Mirage aircraft with A2A capability. Latter on the JF-17s would come under the list too. The biggest disadvantage is that they can not refuel the F-16s or C-130s or any AWACS/AEW&Cs.



Well then the only option left for western aircraft F-16s-swedish AEW&CS are A310 MRTT or KC-130 or F-16s would rely on CFTs. A310 price tag is way to high but since F-16s are to be operated againt mostly likely adversary we know keeping in view the distance across the border I think KC-130 would be the last and best option, acquiring upgrading any civilian airlines airbus Pakistan has in inventory 6 A310s that are grounded or retired due to reasons would also cost atleast $120M minimum in upgrades each for say 2 A310s would PAF be able to pay that much.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Last Hope said:


> The negatives attached to IL-78 are that they can _currently_ *ONLY* refuel the Mirage aircraft with A2A capability. Latter on the JF-17s would come under the list too. The biggest disadvantage is that they can not refuel the F-16s or C-130s or any AWACS/AEW&Cs.



This strick me also. Did the PAF buy the IL-78s purely to refuel vintage and soon to be phased out Mirages? Given that not all pAF Mirages have IFR capability and neither does most of the PAF ie transports,AWACS fighters (excluding those few IFR compatible Mirages) what was the rational behind purchasing the IL-78? So they could use it as a transport mostly?


+ wrt you comments, it seems the IAF has gone completly the other way with almsot all its fleet and addtions to the fleet being IFR capable from Transports to AWACS to fighters


----------



## Last Hope

Luftwaffe said:


> Well then the only option left for western aircraft F-16s-swedish AEW&CS are A310 MRTT or KC-130 or F-16s would rely on CFTs. A310 price tag is way to high but since F-16s are to be operated againt mostly likely adversary we know keeping in view the distance across the border I think KC-130 would be the last and best option, acquiring upgrading any civilian airlines airbus Pakistan has in inventory 6 A310s that are grounded or retired due to reasons would also cost atleast $120M minimum in upgrades each for say 2 A310s would PAF be able to pay that much.


We could talk about aerial refuelling on a separate thread where I have raised this issue some time ago with all possible deals PAF could get from Lockheed Martin and other options. 


Abingdonboy said:


> This strick me also. Did the PAF buy the IL-78s purely to refuel vintage and soon to be phased out Mirages? Given that not all pAF Mirages have IFR capability and neither does most of the PAF ie transports,AWACS fighters (excluding those few IFR compatible Mirages) what was the rational behind purchasing the IL-78? So they could use it as a transport mostly?
> 
> 
> + wrt you comments, it seems the IAF has gone completly the other way with almsot all its fleet and addtions to the fleet being IFR capable from Transports to AWACS to fighters


The IL-78 is used as MRTT, Multi-Role-Transport-Tanker. One unit is specially reserved for transportation, and others occasionally do serve the transport missions. PAF's fleet of about 250 JF-17s with aerial-refuelling probes would require an IL-78 type tanker too. Not bad choice.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Luftwaffe

Abingdonboy said:


> This strick me also. Did the PAF buy the IL-78s purely to refuel vintage and soon to be phased out Mirages? Given that not all pAF Mirages have IFR capability and neither does most of the PAF ie transports,AWACS fighters (excluding those few IFR compatible Mirages) what was the rational behind purchasing the IL-78? So they could use it as a transport mostly?



IFR capabilities can be added to PAF AEW&Cs and would not cost much. Incase you did not read JF-17s would be bound for IFR with IL-78 150 of them.

Even with the rational to use them as Transport is a great boost to PAF in terms of carrying much heavier load then C-130s. remember you'll need 2-3 C-130s to carry as much weight as 1 single IL-78 effectively efficiently.


----------



## imiakhtar

Luftwaffe said:


> Almost all landing surfaces are Standard around those are not build in a way that pose danger to airplanes so the problem is solved you should be familiar with Airport Runway building standards all runways are built on international standards.


 
Firstly, can you break your sentences up? They're not very clear.

Also, you don't seem to have understood the jist of my post. You're right, the IL-78 can probably land on all of Pakistan's runways. What it can not do is operate off a beach strip in the Ran of Kutch, or off an unprepared desert strip in Baluchistan or a mountainous plateau in the Karakorum like the C-130 can. The PCN refers to the strength of the pavement/runway surface. 



Luftwaffe said:


> C-130 costs more then IL-76/IL-78 having said that IL-78 for its size is great when it comes to price tag. An extra 3 IL-76/78 are not cost over burdens otherwise you'll need to procure 3 C-130s for every 1 IL-76/78 the cost of maintenance is nullified you'll spend close to that on IL-76/78 as much as on 3 C-130s. IL-76/78 are reliable Transport with its flight history dating back to early 1971-82 till date.



Read my post again. I wasn't referring to new off-the-line C-130Js. If Pakistan was to purchase new, they would cost in excess of $60 million a piece. C-130H models manufactured in the 70-80s would be much cheaper, vastly more capable than the -E models that PAF mainly have, and would still have a lot of life left. 



Luftwaffe said:


> For our overall Transport activities-purposes IL-78 fullfills that role greatly efficiently.



Not true. I thought I would pull up some fuel burn numbers to further my points:

IL-76/-78 equipped with PS-90 engines (PAF are equipped with PS-90) and operating at MSP will burn 8-9000 kg/hr. That's more than a 380t Airbus A340-600 

http://www.skylineaviation.co.uk/downloads/IlyushinIL-76.pdf

A C-130H operating at MSP will burn around 2-2500 kg/hr (about the same as an F-16!)







In airlines, fuel costs make up around 40% of running costs. Given the fact that most airforces own their aircraft, that would push fuel to over 50% of operating costs.

Furthermore, you imply that due to the maturity of the IL-76 being around since the 70s that it is a very reliable airframe. By that logic, surely this means that the C-130 which has been around 20 years longer is even more reliable?

Also, even the most reliable machines need maintenance. The T-56 and PS-90 both have very similar TBO for the engines:

_Metallurgy and other upgrades since the 1970s have made the T56 a more reliable engine. The Coast Guard will let the Air Force go first on the next upgrade, hoping to learn from the larger services experience.

We expect the T56 to stay on for 20 more years, as long as the C-130Hs, Miller said. Our turbines are getting close to 6,000 hours and compressors are pushing toward 9,000 hours. They are getting more reliable, or at least we are not seeing any decline in reliability. &#9830;_

Engine Maintenance

Also, perhaps you would care to look into the cost of the recent overhaul of the Mil-17 operated by the Punjab Govt and the difficulties and costs they faced in acquiring spare parts (An overhauled TV3 engine will set you back over $500 000). 

The extremely poor supply chain logistics offered by Russian/ ex-CIS states is a huge issue and is one of the reasons why few to none Western airlines operate such aircraft types (I seem to recall a very long red flag thread regarding the Indian Air Force in the US and the difficulties they had in obtaining spare parts for their Sukhois).



> I think there are no Negatives attached with IL-78 specially when the number is 4 and might increase to 4 more in future or should.



Take off the rose tinted glasses.


----------



## Luftwaffe

imiakhtar said:


> What it can not do is operate off a beach strip in the Ran of Kutch, or off an unprepared desert strip in Baluchistan or a mountainous plateau in the Karakorum like the C-130 can. The PCN refers to the strength of the pavement/runway surface.
> 
> Read my post again. I wasn't referring to new off-the-line C-130Js. If Pakistan was to purchase new, they would cost in excess of $60 million a piece. C-130H models manufactured in the 70-80s would be much cheaper, vastly more capable than the -E models that PAF mainly have, and would still have a lot of life left.
> 
> Not true. I thought I would pull up some fuel burn numbers to further my points:
> 
> Furthermore, you imply that due to the maturity of the IL-76 being around since the 70s that it is a very reliable airframe. By that logic, surely this means that the C-130 which has been around 20 years longer is even more reliable?
> 
> Also, even the most reliable machines need maintenance. The T-56 and PS-90 both have very similar TBO for the engines:
> 
> _Metallurgy and other upgrades since the 1970s have made the T56 a more reliable engine. The Coast Guard will let the Air Force go first on the next upgrade, hoping to learn from the larger services experience.
> 
> We expect the T56 to stay on for 20 more years, as long as the C-130Hs, Miller said. Our turbines are getting close to 6,000 hours and compressors are pushing toward 9,000 hours. They are getting more reliable, or at least we are not seeing any decline in reliability. &#9830;_
> 
> 
> Also, perhaps you would care to look into the cost of the recent overhaul of the Mil-17 operated by the Punjab Govt and the difficulties and costs they faced in acquiring spare parts (An overhauled TV3 engine will set you back over $500 000).
> 
> The extremely poor supply chain logistics offered by Russian/ ex-CIS states is a huge issue and is one of the reasons why few to none Western airlines operate such aircraft types (I seem to recall a very long red flag thread regarding the Indian Air Force in the US and the difficulties they had in obtaining spare parts for their Sukhois).



Advise take you anger outside this Forum, be calm.

PAF has not reached that desperate point to use assets off the beach and desert strips. We are not USAF try to understand. Perhaps if you can increase budget of Armed Forces then we can talk on that aspect and invite you to PAF headquarters.

Suggest from whom will you buy used C-130H, Aussies they are over used, USAF excess ones are also stressed out all will be replaced in time by C-130J variants.

Comparing C-130E/H/J to IL-76/78 you got to be kidding us.

You brought in the reliability subject if you check you post to that i referred the history of il-76/78. I think 41 Year is enough to prove reliability. 

Perhaps in the End PAF wants to spend funds on keeping 4 IL-78s due to certain factors explained previously. Still cost effective then C141/C-17/B52s fuel burn. By the way Range / Time / Fuel Burn / Payload matters...Have you check what is written under the Table you posted.

MIL-17 is not relevant to this Thread.


----------



## imiakhtar

Luftwaffe said:


> Advise take you anger outside this Forum, be calm.



I do not suffer fools lightly.



Luftwaffe said:


> PAF has not reached that desperate point to use assets off the beach and desert strips.



And yet the military used the C-130 to get assets into the Kutch area after the Breguet was shot down by the IAF. The C-130 was also used on dirt strips in the Northern Areas following the 05 earthquake and the recent floods. The PAF and PA aerial assets have found just as much use in a civilian role as they have a tactical. It would be foolish to not take stock of any potential dual-role aircraft may have to play. In that context, the C-130 (or even the cn-235) would be better suited to Pakistan's needs.



> Suggest from whom will you buy used C-130H, Aussies they are over used, USAF excess ones are also stressed out all will be replaced in time by C-130J variants.



From the US via the EDA program. There are many C-130s stored at the AMARG. Also, the C-130 has a flight life of 60 000 hours. The USAF and USCG have utilisation rates of around 4-500 hrs/year. Many aircraft that are stored still have 30 years of life left in them. Why do you think Australia is selling it's C-130s for $15 million a piece?

Indonesia could take additional RAAF C-130Hs



> Comparing C-130E/H/J to IL-76/78 you got to be kidding us.



All I've done is point out the flipsides of jets vs props. I did say that the IL-78 acquisition made sense given the requirements to transport the spada and jf-17 fuselages, and ultimately the refueling role they will fill.


----------



## Nishan_101

Najam Khan said:


> C-130E Serial# 3536 and 3702 are believed to have Star Fire EO/IR turrets. C-130E Serial#4282 (I think with old number 4727, as said by you) with lots of antennas underneath lower fuselage is used for COMINT (Communications Intelligence). Most of these aircraft are assigned to No.21 Sqn..which is not a transport squadron
> 
> Photo below. USAF C-130 with EO/IR Turret and related senors.



It might be possible that PAF had upgraded all the C-130s with IRST pod and displayed only few ones. By the way nice pictures. Can you show more of these please.


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Bottom line guys, both aircrafts have a different role to play in PAF. And talking from PAF's perspective alone, the IL76/78 is a heavy lift a/c plus a much needed tanker platform forsome of the current strike aircraft and the future workhorse of PAF, JF 17. The C130 will continue to play it role in stocking sattellite stations and primary supply vehicle for northern areas where longer airstrips are an issue.

Basically, both a/c have a different role to play in PAF, they are not vaying for the same spot!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Najam Khan

nuclearpak said:


> Yup, If you look closely at the tail, 3702 is visible.
> 
> Same aircraft in 2011. Both camos look alike. *So, no new paint scheme? Seems like a year old paint scheme.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FLIR is also visible.


Due to the nature of the role assigned to these C-130s with FLIR, i won't be surprised to if one of them serves in jungle camou scheme.



nuclearpak said:


> *What is the difference between the EW C-130 that PAF has, and the EC-130 of USAF?*
> 
> Tail fin for one, but what is the difference in the operational area of both?
> 
> *Is PAF C-130 only for Intel or for aggressive EW?*


Both Air Forces have different systems installed in their C-130. USAF EC-130s are truly for electronic role, they have various type of sensors and antennas to gather perform in various EW roles (SIGINT,COMINT, ES etc.). PAF's C-130s on the other hand are intermediate between a true EW C-130 and a transport C-130. Budget and funds are the main reason why we can't afford such exclusive C-130s for EW role.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

*Read my post again. I wasn't referring to new off-the-line C-130Js. If Pakistan was to purchase new, they would cost in excess of $60 million a piece. C-130H models manufactured in the 70-80s would be much cheaper, vastly more capable than the -E models that PAF mainly have, and would still have a lot of life left*

for the price of 1-C130J, PAF can buy 5 C-130E's and upgrade them to H-standards. this is most cost-effective.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Najam Khan

Following photo was taken in July 2009. Interestingly it shows transition from old to new serials on C-130s. Two nearest C-130s 3668(or 3660?) and 4282 are carrying COMINT antennas. 

Now since its a Hi-resolution photo, I am expecting you guys to give me a count of C-130s visible...Spare some time, zoom in and play with brightness levels


----------



## Aamir Hussain

It must cost PAF quite lot of money to stock different types of paints. They are specialised paints and very, very expensive. I think PAF uses Sikkens out of Holland Denmark.

Since Talibs do not have Surface to Air weapons or an Airforce for that matter, intensive camo on the a/c are not needed. The typical grey should be standardised as most of these aircrafts are housed at major airbases. 

My 2c's worth;-)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Sixis the count. IF we count the one in the hanger, then the count goes upby one!!!


----------



## imiakhtar

fatman17 said:


> *Read my post again. I wasn't referring to new off-the-line C-130Js. If Pakistan was to purchase new, they would cost in excess of $60 million a piece. C-130H models manufactured in the 70-80s would be much cheaper, vastly more capable than the -E models that PAF mainly have, and would still have a lot of life left*
> 
> for the price of 1-C130J, PAF can buy 5 C-130E's and upgrade them to H-standards. this is most cost-effective.



The issue with the -E models is they are prone to wing spar cracks and corrosion which are expensive to fix (and even the fixes aren't a permanent solution). The -H models addressed these issues.


----------



## Luftwaffe

imiakhtar said:


> I do not suffer fools lightly.
> 
> From the US via the EDA program. There are many C-130s stored at the AMARG. Also, the C-130 has a flight life of 60 000 hours. The USAF and USCG have utilisation rates of around 4-500 hrs/year. Many aircraft that are stored still have 30 years of life left in them. Why do you think Australia is selling it's C-130s for $15 million a piece?
> 
> All I've done is point out the flipsides of jets vs props. I did say that the IL-78 acquisition made sense given the requirements to transport the spada and jf-17 fuselages, and ultimately the refueling role they will fill.



Point out my foolishness the chart table you posted were min fuel burn data and I pointed out that to you. If you don't agree keep the discussion civilized and stick to the topic rather than slipping your tongue on this Thread/Forum. 

Nobody disagrees with you, you need to understand the different roles, PAF picked IL-78 for a reason. Whatever Funds were available have been spent on C-130 upgrades acquisitions and il-78, clearly there is no room for procurement of more Transports for the next decade. Even through EDA PAF would get C-130H for min $20M add the upgrades. I did post long time ago regarding C-130s stored at AMARG even some of them had No# posted. I am in favor of procuring them for Transport as well as KC-130 specifically for Air Refueling for F-16 Fleet since A310/A330 are expensive at $250M-$300M, but there is no more room due to lack of Funds when you ave funds you can procure them in verity of variants operating along side IL-78 but No funds no new procurements. 

*On 9 May 2012, Canberra announced that it will retire the RAAF's C-130H fleet early, in hopes of saving A$250 million ($260 million) over the next four years. The type's missions are to be farmed out to other types such as the C-130J and the Boeing C-17. *

Cost saving on C-130H fleet...did you notice that.


----------



## Jango

Najam Khan said:


> Following photo was taken in July 2009. Interestingly it shows transition from old to new serials on C-130s. Two nearest C-130s 3668(or 3660?) and 4282 are carrying COMINT antennas.
> 
> Now since its a Hi-resolution photo, I am expecting you guys to give me a count of C-130s visible...Spare some time, zoom in and play with brightness levels



Well, there are 6 C-130's in the pic. The one in the hangar is getting a wing change it seems, there is a wing outside the hangar if I am correct.

And in the first C-130 on which it is 4727 written, there is also 4282 written. Is this the _transition_ period?

4727 was changed to 4282. (probably to match the construction number with serial number)


----------



## imiakhtar

Luftwaffe said:


> Cost saving on C-130H fleet...did you notice that.



Your eyes are blind on all else that moves. I guess the recent stationing of the USMC in Aus went over your head too. 

To put it briefly, Aus is realigning it's interests in the region with the US and as such is expanding it's force projection capabilities. That's where the C-17s payload-range advantage over the C-130 comes into play. After all, someone needs to keep the Straits of Malacca open (and it sure as hell isn't going to be Pakistan!).


----------



## Fieldmarshal

Windjammer said:


> Do you mean locating their signals, since i believe all were killed and none were captured. ??



not just the signal but using it thermal imaging/night vision capability to locate the terrorists from the air. basically the the ac was directing the whole operation. 
terrorists have been captured alive and more were captured from other places after their interrogation.
the no of terrorists was more than double of what was quoted in the news.


----------



## Fieldmarshal

TaimiKhan said:


> This is the some kind of EW C-130 (#4727), with no FLIR system. Before #4282 used to have this many antennas, don't know if 4282 has been re-numbered as 4727 or we have two 4727 & 4282 with some EW kind of equipment.
> 
> The C-130(#3702) in post#413 in the new woodland camo is the one having the FLIR system. If you guys can enlarge the pic, you will see the FLIR mounting in light gray color just under the nose.
> 
> 
> 
> The C-130 in the new woodland green camo with 2 IL-78s is having the FLIR system, very effective at night operations.
> 
> The one you are referring to is just some EW equipped aircraft.


the nose of the ac in question is not visible in the pic so cant say, but i will take your word for it.


----------



## Last Hope

Najam Khan said:


> Following photo was taken in July 2009. Interestingly it shows transition from old to new serials on C-130s. Two nearest C-130s 3668(or 3660?) and 4282 are carrying COMINT antennas.
> 
> Now since its a Hi-resolution photo, I am expecting you guys to give me a count of C-130s visible...Spare some time, zoom in and play with brightness levels


I count 7 C-130s.


Aamir Hussain said:


> It must cost PAF quite lot of money to stock different types of paints. They are specialised paints and very, very expensive. I think PAF uses Sikkens out of Holland Denmark.
> 
> Since Talibs do not have Surface to Air weapons or an Airforce for that matter, intensive camo on the a/c are not needed. *The typical grey should be standardised as most of these aircrafts are housed at major airbases.
> *
> My 2c's worth;-)


According to Fatman, the woodland camouflage is to be standardized for all C-130s in service.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

What is the purpose of having both old and new serial numbers on an aircraft at one time?

Or is it the construction number of 4727? (But 4727 was indeed changed to 4282)


----------



## Luftwaffe

imiakhtar said:


> To put it briefly, Aus is realigning it's interests in the region with the US and as such is expanding it's force projection capabilities.



Thankyou that is why I am referring you and explaining it to you PAF has its Interests that is why it is sticking-procuring IL-78 for the specific reasons and C-130s are being used for specific reasons not including just transports as you can see from the latest images. For the last time I am all for c-130H/J for Transport roles and other missions and IL-78 for the much faster and needed heavy payloads and KC-130s for F-16s as Air Refuellers provided PAF has Funds of that sort since we are operating C-130s for a very long 48 Years now. See I am not blind, this is the real story PAF is doing what it can with its limited funds. 

Everyone has their interested aligned and requirements we donot have similar requirements like india-australia-etc with verity of different Transports-MRTT-Gunship versions.

Case closed. No point in arguing or beating the bushes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## imiakhtar

Luftwaffe said:


> No point in arguing or beating the bushes.



I disagree. The issue with these defence forums is that the majority of posts are subjective. Where I see a factually incorrect post, I will flag it up. A number of your posts were blatantly wrong, hence the 'beating around the bush'.


----------



## fatman17

imiakhtar said:


> The issue with the -E models is they are prone to wing spar cracks and corrosion which are expensive to fix (and even the fixes aren't a permanent solution). The -H models addressed these issues.



plently of H's are available in EDA stocks

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nishan_101

Luftwaffe said:


> Point out my foolishness the chart table you posted were min fuel burn data and I pointed out that to you. If you don't agree keep the discussion civilized and stick to the topic rather than slipping your tongue on this Thread/Forum.
> 
> Nobody disagrees with you, you need to understand the different roles, PAF picked IL-78 for a reason. Whatever Funds were available have been spent on C-130 upgrades acquisitions and il-78, clearly there is no room for procurement of more Transports for the next decade. Even through EDA PAF would get C-130H for min $20M add the upgrades. I did post long time ago regarding C-130s stored at AMARG even some of them had No# posted. I am in favor of procuring them for Transport as well as KC-130 specifically for Air Refueling for F-16 Fleet since A310/A330 are expensive at $250M-$300M, but there is no more room due to lack of Funds when you ave funds you can procure them in verity of variants operating along side IL-78 but No funds no new procurements.
> 
> *On 9 May 2012, Canberra announced that it will retire the RAAF's C-130H fleet early, in hopes of saving A$250 million ($260 million) over the next four years. The type's missions are to be farmed out to other types such as the C-130J and the Boeing C-17. *
> 
> Cost saving on C-130H fleet...did you notice that.



Its basically the failure of PAC along with PAF and PN too that they have not directed their interest on table. They had a good chance to do a JV with Chinese on two type of Transport plane one like C-130J-30 and other CN-295 class one but with some improvements like Composite airframe along with poerfull engine with 7 blades as well. If not wrong then we need:

PAF:
21 Y-9 Class
15 CN-295 Class
7 Y-9 Attack Class
7 CN-295 Attack Class
11 AEW&C Platform

PN:
11 Y-9 Class
15 CN-295 Class(7 for PN and 4 for SSGN and 4 for MSA)
3-5 AEW&C Platform

Although there will be civilan demand from airlines as well as from other countries military too.


----------



## Inception-06

How many C-130 are now in Service with PAF ?


----------



## Last Hope

C-130 during the earthquake 2005 rescue mission.



Ulla said:


> How many C-130 are now in Service with PAF ?



16. 5 C-130B and 11 C-130E.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

Last Hope said:


> C-130 during the earthquake 2005 rescue mission.
> 
> 
> 
> 16. 5 C-130B and 11 C-130E.



Only 16 machines, OK thx I thought always we have ca. 25


----------



## Bossman

Nishan_101 said:


> Its basically the failure of PAC along with PAF and PN too that they have not directed their interest on table. They had a good chance to do a JV with Chinese on two type of Transport plane one like C-130J-30 and other CN-295 class one but with some improvements like Composite airframe along with poerfull engine with 7 blades as well. If not wrong then we need:
> 
> PAF:
> 21 Y-9 Class
> 15 CN-295 Class
> 7 Y-9 Attack Class
> 7 CN-295 Attack Class
> 11 AEW&C Platform
> 
> PN:
> 11 Y-9 Class
> 15 CN-295 Class(7 for PN and 4 for SSGN and 4 for MSA)
> 3-5 AEW&C Platform
> 
> Although there will be civilan demand from airlines as well as from other countries military too.



Your immaturity shows in every one of your posts.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

Bossman said:


> Your immaturity shows in every one of your posts.



you can say that again and again

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer

Some Gora Sahib taking a freebie on a PAF CN 235.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Fieldmarshal

thats an official of the russian embassy, if i am not mistaken, i saw him today morning.


----------



## Imran Khan

Fieldmarshal said:


> thats an official of the russian embassy, if i am not mistaken, i saw him today morning.



for what they are flying on PAF bird why not chartered plane or PIA ? may be some defense matter ?


----------



## Windjammer

Imran Khan said:


> for what they are flying on PAF bird why not chartered plane or PIA ? may be some defense matter ?



Isn't the Russian FM in town, could be associated with him. ??


----------



## Imran Khan

Windjammer said:


> Isn't the Russian FM in town, could be associated with him. ??



nope its something else sir in that case they use civil planes not military one .BTW its 043 one VIP transport in cn-235 .


----------



## Nishan_101

Windjammer said:


> Some Gora Sahib taking a freebie on a PAF CN 235.



Are we looking to buy more CN-235 or CN-295 for PAF and PN as well.
I think PN is interested in 7 CN-295 MPA along with 4 CN-295 for SSGN. I hope that PAF will buy 7 CN-295 and sell the current 3-4 CN-235 to others.


----------



## Last Hope

Nishan_101 said:


> Are we looking to buy more CN-235 or CN-295 for PAF and PN as well.
> I think PN is interested in 7 CN-295 MPA along with 4 CN-295 for SSGN. I hope that PAF will buy 7 CN-295 and sell the current 3-4 CN-235 to others.



Meray Bhai,

We are not looking to buy any more CN-235s. Pakistan Navy has placed a secret order for 12 C-17s and is going to raise it's own independent air-warfare wing which will home 18 J-10B, 6 F-35B, 18 F/A-18 and 18 Eurofighter Typhoon. 

Now please, leave us alone with your delusions, like I asked you earlier, be sensible.


----------



## Nishan_101

Last Hope said:


> Meray Bhai,
> 
> We are not looking to buy any more CN-235s. Pakistan Navy has placed a secret order for 12 C-17s and is going to raise it's own independent air-warfare wing which will home 18 J-10B, 6 F-35B, 18 F/A-18 and 18 Eurofighter Typhoon.
> 
> Now please, leave us alone with your delusions, like I asked you earlier, be sensible.



Yeah! you should stop also


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

Nishan_101 said:


> Are we looking to buy more CN-235 or CN-295 for PAF and PN as well.
> I think PN is interested in 7 CN-295 MPA along with 4 CN-295 for SSGN. I hope that PAF will buy 7 CN-295 and sell the current 3-4 CN-235 to others.


----------



## fatman17

Nishan_101 said:


> Are we looking to buy more CN-235 or CN-295 for PAF and PN as well.
> I think PN is interested in 7 CN-295 MPA along with 4 CN-295 for SSGN. I hope that PAF will buy 7 CN-295 and sell the current 3-4 CN-235 to others.



so far PN is buying 2 ATR-72-500 ex-airline examples for MPA role. nothing else as yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> so far PN is buying 2 ATR-72-500 ex-airline examples for MPA role. nothing else as yet.



they will be fitted with naval surveillance equipment sir jee ?


----------



## AHMED85

Add the latest and advance Delivery Vehicles , coz it is also the unique transportation....


----------



## Jango

fatman17 said:


> so far PN is buying 2 ATR-72-500 ex-airline examples for MPA role. nothing else as yet.



72? Wasn't it 42, the same examples as PIA?

Any news about the expected schedule? Any tenders, invitations or anything of the sort?

Italy also uses ATR-72 and 42 for MP role.


----------



## Jango

*Paint job at Chaklala!*

Pic not taken by me.

An interesting thing to note for me is that the whole rear section is masked, rather than only the ramp.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Najam Khan

A photo from 6 Sqn's Hercules cockpit.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Bratva

Najam Khan said:


> A photo from 6 Sqn's Hercules cockpit.



Didn't all C-130 cockpits were upgraded to glass cockpits?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Najam Khan

mafiya said:


> Didn't all C-130 cockpits were upgraded to glass cockpits?



No, not all. There are still good number of non-refurbished C-130 serving in PAF...and making life miserable for trainees

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

mafiya said:


> Didn't all C-130 cockpits were upgraded to glass cockpits?



thats the plan. all C130's to H standard.



nuclearpak said:


> *Paint job at Chaklala!*
> 
> Pic not taken by me.
> 
> An interesting thing to note for me is that the whole rear section is masked, rather than only the ramp.



the yellow rear area seems to be 'refurbished. PAF has been trying to 'salvage' 1-2 C130's from the horrible 3 ship accident of a few years ago at chaklala (Nur Khan AB).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> thats the plan. all C130's to H standard.
> 
> 
> 
> the yellow rear area seems to be 'refurbished. PAF has been trying to 'salvage' 1-2 C130's *from the horrible 3 ship accident of a few years ago at chaklala (Nur Khan AB)*.



from the horrible 3 ship accident of a few years ago at chaklala (Nur Khan AB)????
Didn't got this, what incident are you referring to?


----------



## Nishan_101

nuclearpak said:


> *Paint job at Chaklala!*
> 
> Pic not taken by me.
> 
> An interesting thing to note for me is that the whole rear section is masked, rather than only the ramp.


*Just an Assumption:*
Really it would be great if PAC has made a decision to join the Chinese to develop to transport aircraft for the fleet like JT-11(C-130J-30 Class) and JT-10(CN-295 Class) planes on PAC 25% and Chinese 75% basis. Although we also have to invest there at PAC as well to make preparation for assembly and few parts manufacturing.

So that these aircrafts could have multi usages like: Transport, EW/ELINT, MPA, AEW&C and Attack as well.

But currently we should look towards the Chines Y-9 and about 7 of these in next year if we will have some money!


----------



## TaimiKhan

Arsalan said:


> from the horrible 3 ship accident of a few years ago at chaklala (Nur Khan AB)????
> Didn't got this, what incident are you referring to?



I believe he is referring to this incident. 


DISASTROUS COLLISION OF PAF C-130 AIRCRAFT

And i don't think anything considerable in those 2 aircraft was left, which can be salvaged, if that is what fatman is talking about. 

And the yellow part suggests a Zinc Chromate coating which is used for corrosion purposes and is applied before a paint scheme. 

I belief the C-130 in above picture has no parts being changed, rather that part still needs the new paint scheme and the yellow means it has that corrosion preventing primer still on.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Windjammer

@ Taimi, albeit one C-130 was completely destroyed, however, i understand that a couple of engines and some parts of the airframe were salvaged from the second aircraft involved in the accident.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Arsalan

TaimiKhan said:


> I believe he is referring to this incident.
> 
> 
> DISASTROUS COLLISION OF PAF C-130 AIRCRAFT
> 
> And i don't think anything considerable in those 2 aircraft was left, which can be salvaged, if that is what fatman is talking about.
> 
> And the yellow part suggests a Zinc Chromate coating which is used for corrosion purposes and is applied before a paint scheme.
> 
> I belief the C-130 in above picture has no parts being changed, rather that part still needs the new paint scheme and the yellow means it has that corrosion preventing primer still on.



Oh, Boss said FEW YEARS AGO, but that was back in 1988!
That is what confused me..

Thanks for clearing this.

regards!


----------



## fatman17

Arsalan said:


> Oh, Boss said FEW YEARS AGO, but that was back in 1988!
> That is what confused me..
> 
> Thanks for clearing this.
> 
> regards!



there was another accident in late 90's unfortunately.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> there was another accident in late 90's unfortunately.



oh, okies!
Tried, can you link it please? Will like to learn more about it. 
May be it was not documented in media so i had trouble looking around for it.


----------



## fatman17

Arsalan said:


> oh, okies!
> Tried, can you link it please? Will like to learn more about it.
> May be it was not documented in media so i had trouble looking around for it.



will try to find it - it is in this airforce section.


----------



## khail007

fatman17 said:


> will try to find it - it is in this airforce section.



Sir, I am not sure, but may be this is the one which caught fire during refueling in 1969 at chaklala and used as a salvage. Later in 1971 war, it was successfully used as a decoy.


----------



## Aamir Hussain

The aircraft seen in the pic undergoing a paint job has its props changed if not the engine. So there has been some upgrade made here.


----------



## SQ8

mafiya said:


> Didn't all C-130 cockpits were upgraded to glass cockpits?



Not the early examples.. the ex RAAF examples where the ones upgraded.


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## krash

I Don't know if this ones been shared before so:

The boys dropping supplies for the quake victims.







and they say that fighter pilots are mad!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## umair86pk

They are PAF pilots second to none they can do that.


----------



## Jango

krash said:


> I Don't know if this ones been shared before so:
> 
> The boys dropping supplies for the quake victims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and they say that fighter pilots are mad!













Meters above the ground!!!

There is also a video which shows this airdrop, and the close nature of this drop truly shows then.

BTW, the supplies are seen being dropped from the side door, wouldn't it be better to drop them from pallets through the cargo door? Or simply by pushing them off from the rear ramp? Does PAF have pallets for such purpose?

And secondly, another SOP is for the aircraft to do a touch and go at some speed, and the pallet is offloaded while the aircraft is touching the ground.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jango

I was searching for the video of this airdrop, couldn't find that, but here is another one of a Hercules making a low pass quite similar to that one.






*In this video, note from 2:05 to 2:10, the rear door, a airman, probably load-master is standing right by the door.* The Muzaffarabad airdrop might have been similar to this one, load-master throwing out sacks from the door.

The C-130 almost moves like a helicopter. Nose down, but still moving straight and level. Great skills of the pilot.


----------



## Last Hope



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Javed786

i heard from somewhere, can't remember where that PAF can modify their C-130's to drop bombs and use it as a bomber?


----------



## hassan1

Javed786 said:


> i heard from somewhere, can't remember where that PAF can modify their C-130's to drop bombs and use it as a bomber?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## fatman17

FLIR Herks
Strangler 12

with tough terrain of the tribal areas, army personnel were being slaughtered as they attempted to eliminate militants who had lived in the region for years. they knew the high ground and ridges, which allowed them to look down on the troops as they approached - the soldiers were 'sitting ducks'.

to counter this threat the PAF required a platform capable of loitering overhead the area of operation for long periods to pinpoint enemy locations.

in early 2009, the PAF set about modernising a C-130B with FLIR Systems Star Safire III imaging system to pinpoint areas of interest on the ground and then zoom-in, from around 18,000ft (5,486m) the operator can recognise an individuals features - it is an impressive tool.

within six months the PAF was also installing a Brite-Star designator to allow the C-130 to laser bombs onto targets for strike aircraft.

during Operation Lightening II (which commenced on Oct, 11, 2009) PAF FLIR-equipped transport aircraft were airborne almost 24 hours a day supporting army ops. in the rear of these aircraft are two large flat screens, one showing a moving map as photographed by the DB-110 and the other showing FLIR imagery being worked by the navigator/FLIR operator in the cockpit.

army personnel can watch the areas of interest and describe via radio to troops on the ground what they are looking at from thousands of feet above the battlefield. through their headsets, those in the rear can also direct the FLIR operator where to look.

it became a very useful tool - essentially the army had its own eyes in the sky.

there are plans to data-link the imagery down to a ground station; but while telemetry trials have proved it can be done, the system will need upgrading.

"we fly the FLIR C-130's at 10,000-15,000ft (3,048-4,572m) and we can track a single person. its a safe height but if we need to go lower we have to gain clearence" explained one of the aircrew.

"once the army has the intelligence, it provides us the rough co-ordinates so we can have a closer look. we fly to the area and scan the targets, enabling us to provide the intel guys with exact co-ordinates. the bad guys usually move at night, so we tend to fly at medium level over the area of their compound, scan their movements, take co-ordinates and pass them to the army. knowing what the place looks like helps the army should they decide to attack" he added.

GPS is integrated into the FLIR, so it can focus with rough co-ordinates on the area of interest in the vicinity of the Hercules'position. the FLIR can then be zoomed-in allowing the operator to illuminate the exact target to pick precise co-ordinates that can then be relayed to various intelligence agencies.

the PAF's FLIR equipped C-130's are known to fly along the afghan border, checking for hostiles moving in and out of Pakistan.

AIR International

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Donatello

Two questions:

Is this System removable or permanently installed on C130s and How many did PAF acquire?

Thanks.


----------



## fatman17

Donatello said:


> Two questions:
> 
> Is this System removable or permanently installed on C130s and How many did PAF acquire?
> 
> Thanks.



the systems were installed locally by PAF engineers as the supplier fees was US10m and a lead-time of 9 months. the system is removable and the number of FLIR Herks in service is classified. the article just states that 'several'.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaimiKhan

fatman17 said:


> FLIR Herks
> Strangler 12
> 
> with tough terrain of the tribal areas, army personnel were being slaughtered as they attempted to eliminate militants who had lived in the region for years. they knew the high ground and ridges, which allowed them to look down on the troops as they approached - the soldiers were 'sitting ducks'.
> 
> to counter this threat the PAF required a platform capable of loitering overhead the area of operation for long periods to pinpoint enemy locations.
> 
> in early 2009, the PAF set about modernising a C-130B with FLIR Systems Star Safire III imaging system to pinpoint areas of interest on the ground and then zoom-in, from around 18,000ft (5,486m) the operator can recognise an individuals features - it is an impressive tool.
> 
> within six months the PAF was also installing a Brite-Star designator to allow the C-130 to laser bombs onto targets for strike aircraft.
> 
> during Operation Lightening II (which commenced on Oct, 11, 2009) PAF FLIR-equipped transport aircraft were airborne almost 24 hours a day supporting army ops. in the rear of these aircraft are two large flat screens, one showing a moving map as photographed by the DB-110 and the other showing FLIR imagery being worked by the navigator/FLIR operator in the cockpit.
> 
> army personnel can watch the areas of interest and describe via radio to troops on the ground what they are looking at from thousands of feet above the battlefield. through their headsets, those in the rear can also direct the FLIR operator where to look.
> 
> it became a very useful tool - essentially the army had its own eyes in the sky.
> 
> there are plans to data-link the imagery down to a ground station; but while telemetry trials have proved it can be done, the system will need upgrading.
> 
> "we fly the FLIR C-130's at 10,000-15,000ft (3,048-4,572m) and we can track a single person. its a safe height but if we need to go lower we have to gain clearence" explained one of the aircrew.
> 
> "once the army has the intelligence, it provides us the rough co-ordinates so we can have a closer look. we fly to the area and scan the targets, enabling us to provide the intel guys with exact co-ordinates. the bad guys usually move at night, so we tend to fly at medium level over the area of their compound, scan their movements, take co-ordinates and pass them to the army. knowing what the place looks like helps the army should they decide to attack" he added.
> 
> GPS is integrated into the FLIR, so it can focus with rough co-ordinates on the area of interest in the vicinity of the Hercules'position. the FLIR can then be zoomed-in allowing the operator to illuminate the exact target to pick precise co-ordinates that can then be relayed to various intelligence agencies.
> 
> the PAF's FLIR equipped C-130's are known to fly along the afghan border, checking for hostiles moving in and out of Pakistan.
> 
> AIR International



After Kamra, the system was very well used in the Peshawar Base attack and flew for more then 4 hours and helped the ground troops.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Donatello

TaimiKhan said:


> After Kamra, the system was very well used in the Peshawar Base attack and flew for more then 4 hours and helped the ground troops.



Well, that seems a good use of it, but think about it. Launching a huge plane like C130 just for patrolling and recon makes little sense. I mean, we should have drones for that purpose. Much cheaper to operate and purchase.


----------



## fatman17

Donatello said:


> Well, that seems a good use of it, but think about it. Launching a huge plane like C130 just for patrolling and recon makes little sense. I mean, we should have drones for that purpose. Much cheaper to operate and purchase.



all in due time - the herks can loiter for 8-10 hours. small price to pay for victory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Najam Khan

Donatello said:


> Well, that seems a good use of it, but think about it. Launching a *huge plane like C130* just for patrolling and recon makes little sense. I mean, we should have drones for that purpose. Much cheaper to operate and purchase.



You are right, but that 'huge plane' has more spectrum in such operations as compare to the UAVs we operate. Also, what will UAV do in case of ground fire (consider an enemy with improved weapons)?

A command center up in the air; observing all ground forces while keeping itself away from ground fire works perfectly fine. Plus, these low-level recce C-130 guys go through complete training for such role especially in timed boxed operations.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17

FLIR Herks operate at least from 10,000ft which is safe from any weapons the militants may possess - at night time they operate from lower altitudes.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Najam Khan

Some random pictures of Herky bird.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Jango

Today saw all three camos at Nur Khan base. The grey low visibility, the dark jungle camo scheme, and the light bright jungle camo scheme.



Najam Khan said:


>



Wonder what compelled the engineers/designers to make the nose landing gear door like that. A singular piece pushing against the wind to open would create enormous drag and the hydraulic would have to put some serious effort. Two split pieces opening to the sides are the norm, like this:


----------



## airomerix

Any word on C-130H's which PAF had to purchase few years ago? Or are we still stuck with Es and Bs?


----------



## nomi007

we did receive any c-130h


----------



## Najam Khan

airomerix said:


> Any word on C-130H's which PAF had to purchase few years ago? Or are we *still stuck with Es and Bs?*


Yes , refurbished E/B's, hardly any plans/funds to procure -H versions.
I think PAF in next 5-7 years should procured 4-6 IL-78s or at least 8 C-130s. The current number is not enough, because now c-130s are used in low-level tactical attack role as well. 

Where would PAF's mobilization plans go when 4-6 C-130 are either out of order or severely damaged in case of full scale war? 24 should be the minimum number of Herky birds.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

i think PAF is satisfied with 16 Herks (all being updated to H standard) and the 4 or 3 IL-78's. dont forget the CN-235's. thats a lot of transports.


----------



## Hyperion

Some additional protection from enemy fire (landing / take off -- war scenario). Look closely, all sides are shielded from outside. 



nuclearpak said:


> Wonder what compelled the engineers/designers to make the nose landing gear door like that. A singular piece pushing against the wind to open would create enormous drag and the hydraulic would have to put some serious effort. Two split pieces opening to the sides are the norm, like this:


----------



## airomerix

C-130Js is what we need. Especially in close air support missions along the Afghan Border. Not so surprisingly our neighbour has it all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

just saw IL-78 MKP roaming low towards Arabian Sea? Wonder whats going on

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

nabil_05 said:


> just saw IL-78 MKP roaming low towards Arabian Sea? Wonder whats going on



Approximately how low?


----------



## Marshmallow

Proud of our AIR fORCE


----------



## Dazzler

nuclearpak said:


> Approximately how low?



1000-1500 feet, below the usual cloud line, i must say its one loud plane


----------



## Jango

nabil_05 said:


> 1000-1500 feet, below the usual cloud line, i must say its one loud plane



Location might be helpful. 

But what does a IL-78 do near the sea at 1500 AGL???

Interesting indeed.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal

*CASA CN-235*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Nishan_101

Its one of the best time that PAF should place an order for about 7 Y-9P from China along with 5 CN-295 or some Chinese equivalent...


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

Nishan_101 said:


> Its one of the best time that *PAF should place an order for about 7 Y-9P from China along with 5 CN-295 or some Chinese equivalent...*



and French-Fries must be free with the deal.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## umair86pk

nuclearpak said:


> Location might be helpful.
> 
> But what does a IL-78 do near the sea at 1500 AGL???
> 
> Interesting indeed.



Most probably taken off from PAF Masroor Hawks bay


----------



## Gentelman

C-130 special colour scheme..
don't know if posted before...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pakistan Miliatry could surely use another 20 C130 transport planes

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gentelman

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Pakistan Miliatry could surely use another 20 C130 transport planes



moreover C-130s high altitude and surveillance capabilities make it preety useful aircraft for PA...
it's capabilities are much promising...
but i sense need of joint development of transport aircraft by China-Pakistan in near future to avoid any sanctions and difficulties...
well if Russians agreed to provide such aircraft then things would be pretty manageable....


----------



## Nishan_101

Gentelman said:


> moreover C-130s high altitude and surveillance capabilities make it preety useful aircraft for PA...
> it's capabilities are much promising...
> but i sense need of joint development of transport aircraft by China-Pakistan in near future to avoid any sanctions and difficulties...
> well if Russians agreed to provide such aircraft then things would be pretty manageable....



I think we should start working on a new design with China on a C-130J-30 like aircraft along with its smaller version like CN-295 but they should be better in performance than others....


----------



## Gentelman

Nishan_101 said:


> I think we should start working on a new design with China on a C-130J-30 like aircraft along with its smaller version like CN-295 but they should be better in performance than others....



don't have such intensions nor resources support......
maybe after 2025+....


----------



## fatman17

*Quote of the Day*

&#8220;Get in, sit down
shut up, hang on.&#8221; 

-- As see on a Belgian C-130 crew door

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## muse

Nishan_101 said:


> I think we should start working on a new design with China on a C-130J-30 like aircraft along with its smaller version like CN-295 but they should be better in performance than others....




Nishan:


What if the Y12 were to be developed with Ukrainian Turboprops ?? -- I just think that's a really strong probability


----------



## fatman17

muse said:


> Nishan:
> 
> 
> What if the Y12 were to be developed with Ukrainian Turboprops ?? -- I just think that's a really strong probability



Y12 is a light transport / liaison aircraft.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Pakistan Miliatry could surely use another 20 C130 transport planes



what is your basis for this recommendation?



Gentelman said:


> C-130 special colour scheme..
> don't know if posted before...



it has been but no problem.


----------



## muse

fatman17 said:


> Y12 is a light transport / liaison aircraft.





Sorry I mistyped - I meant to say Y20

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gentelman

fatman17 said:


> Y12 is a light transport / liaison aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> what is your basis for this recommendation?
> 
> 
> 
> it has been but no problem.



he love recommendations...
last days he was recommending 7 agosta 90B,20 F-22 Ps and over 15 coverties of chinese origion of a kind.....
well i found that of fb we really need C-130s coz of their infrastructure and operational capabilities but not in soo huge numbers...
another problem is they are from unpredictable supplier...


----------



## Luftwaffe

Old picture from 1987, C-130
http://sdrv.ms/YBoACW

Someone download this pic and reload to image site, I will remove it from skydrive later.


----------



## Last Hope

Luftwaffe said:


> Old picture from 1987, C-130
> http://sdrv.ms/YBoACW
> 
> Someone download this pic and reload to image site, I will remove it from skydrive later.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Nishan_101

Last Hope said:


>



If Saudi Arabia has decided earlier to license produce 30-35 C-130J-30 with some KC-130J and 15 C-27J, then it will be great for PAF to get their C-130s and make some upgradation to maintain them till 11 years to come. And RSAF will have their choice of plane with local people being trained.


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

Nishan_101 said:


> If Saudi Arabia has decided earlier to license produce 30-35 C-130J-30 with some KC-130J and 15 C-27J, then it will be great for PAF to get their C-130s and make some upgradation to maintain them till 11 years to come. And RSAF will have their choice of plane with local people being trained.



WOW ... you are soo talented man ..... you must be our defence minister. 
All your post are worth reading and we had no such visionary man here before.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## krash

danger-zone said:


> WOW ... you are soo talented man ..... you must be our defence minister.
> All your post are worth reading and we had no such visionary man here before.



Don't be a jerk. Somebody forgot to tell you that insolent dolts stopped being considered cool in the 5th grade. Now, however, they are considered just inadequate and sad.


----------



## Imran Khan

Nishan_101 said:


> If Saudi Arabia has decided earlier to license produce 30-35 C-130J-30 with some KC-130J and 15 C-27J, then it will be great for PAF to get their C-130s and make some upgradation to maintain them till 11 years to come. And RSAF will have their choice of plane with local people being trained.



Turkey to buy Saudi C-130 cargo planes | TR Defence


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

krash said:


> Don't be a jerk. Somebody forgot to tell you that insolent dolts stopped being considered cool in the 5th grade. Now, however, they are considered just inadequate and sad.










Imran Khan said:


> Turkey to buy Saudi C-130 cargo planes | TR Defence



So as the news says: 


> A total of six C-130E extended-range Hercules cargo transport aircraft are to be purchased from the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) stock *that were put on sale on a best-offer basis.*



The word SALE sums it all, Pakistan considers aid only.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

PAF Falcons Merchandise - Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Aviation Art Prints


----------



## Jango

Is all the C-130 fleet supposed to be painted in grey camo? Because that jungle camo is still in service, and I heard on this very forum that all the 130's are going to be standardized.


----------



## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> Is all the C-130 fleet supposed to be painted in grey camo? Because that jungle camo is still in service, and I heard on this very forum that all the 130's are going to be standardized.



Woodland camo is going to be the standard for all C-130s.


----------



## Jango

Last Hope said:


> Woodland camo is going to be the standard for all C-130s.



PAF changed its mind again?

I am pretty sure that grey low visibility scheme was going to be made standard until some months ago.


----------



## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> PAF changed its mind again?
> 
> I am pretty sure that grey low visibility scheme was going to be made standard until some months ago.



Fatman is the source who confirms this.


----------



## muse

Transport thread enthusiasts will recall the great hopes PAF and other Air Forces such as the valiant Egyptian Air Force had for the AN70 and how those hopes came to naught given the destruction of the two prototypes -- below are a couple of images of the ship, once also known as the pocket C17:














But all hope is not lost - Y-20 offers a multiple utility work horse, Transport, Cargo Utility/, Tanker, AEW&C

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

Y-20 uses chines engines ? so we have to wait more till they have own engines


----------



## Jango

Which camo is that? 

It isn't that woodland camo, neither the low visibility grey one.

The following sand camo was retired long time ago...no?


----------



## Nishan_101

Better for PAF to try to gain license from China to produce about 21 Y-9s at PAC along with a twin engine version; smaller plane like CN-295 type from China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

^ 

*Oye chotay ! Ja oye mamay de dukan ton 21 wday te 6 - 7 chotay jaz phar ley aa ... Te uno kawin agli wari asi we tuday nal jaz banawan ge ... Sadi mulak nu wadi loor aa.*
(seems legit)

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## The Deterrent



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Kurbaanhussain

Pakistan should build their own C-130 transporters with china

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bratva



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Bratva



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

^ complete C-130 overhaul at PAC  good going.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

^or is this just for a 'paint-job'? - dont see the engines anywhere?


----------



## Windjammer

fatman17 said:


> ^or is this just for a 'paint-job'? - dont see the engines anywhere?



Sir, they wouldn't need to strip it down for a paint shop visit. ??


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

fatman17 said:


> ^or is this just for a 'paint-job'? - dont see the engines anywhere?



Sir you don't need to disassemble mighty C-130 just for a paint job. 
It is done this way. 






Its really good thing that Pakistan can overhaul large aircraft like C-130 & its engine as well at home at PAC and also produce a good range of its spare parts. Really delight to see this development, ARF is progressing well.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Windjammer

*
ENGINE OVERHAUL*

*C-130 QEC*

C-130 Quick Engine Change(QEC)
C-130 Propeller Overhaul Facilities have been established in collaboration with M/S Derco Aerospace Inc, United States of America and Hamilton Sundstrand Maastricht, Netherlands. Propeller AMOF has expanded to include overhauling of QEC (Quick Engine Change) which is also now carried out at PAC. Detail is as under:
QEC Overhauling
QEC Access Panels repair
QEC Longeron Replacement
QEC Skin Replacement

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Jango

fatman17 said:


> ^or is this just for a 'paint-job'? - dont see the engines anywhere?



Engines are sent to Kamra.

FAcilities at PAC and also the depot maint bases have remarkably improved over the last 7 to 10 years.

PAF AED at Faisal (102 I think) also has capabilities for overhaul of Mi 17.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Super Falcon

well PAF always wanted or counted on one type of aircraft F 16 and C 130 you see 99 percent of transport is of c 130 hercules and few vip aircraft which have nothing to do in war just transporting vip waste of money. paf should have three different types of aircrafts for transport heavy transporter like C 7 galaxy or antnov we needed in relief operation and as well as in war time which i dont know why we did not buyed till now nuts PAF thinktank other should be like IL 78 for transport we have IL 78 but for refueling and small light transport like C 130 j we need


----------



## Jango



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Liquidmetal

I love these great images! how do you guys find them? What is your secret?

Thank you and may we see more please.


----------



## Najam Khan

Super Falcon said:


> well PAF always wanted or counted on one type of aircraft F 16 and C 130 you see 99 percent of transport is of c 130 hercules and few vip aircraft which have nothing to do in war just transporting vip waste of money. *paf should have three different types of aircrafts for transport heavy transporter like C 7 galaxy or antnov we needed in relief operation and as well as in war time which i dont know why we did not buyed till now nuts PAF thinktank other should be like IL 78 for transport we have IL 78 but for refueling and small light transport like C 130 j we need*



Unfortunately after 5 decades with C-130 service; they still think its present numbers with some 'modifications' are enough for them. I won't go in detail, they know this so called 'air-lift capability' is their weakest link. Its not even enough to support PAF, leave the ground forces support aside.


Food for thought: Some years ago a friend of mine wrote a paper on similar topic. At that time PAF had 10 C-130s, whereas IAF had 11 transport units (some 210 aircraft If I am not mistaken? ).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Armstrong

Najam Khan said:


> Unfortunately after 5 decades with C-130 service; they still think its present numbers with some 'modifications' are enough for them. I won't go in detail, they know this so called 'air-lift capability' is their weakest link. Its not even enough to support PAF, leave the ground forces support aside.
> 
> Food for thought: Some years ago a friend of mine wrote a paper on similar topic. At that time PAF had 10 C-130s, whereas IAF had 11 transport units (some 210 aircraft If I am not mistaken? ).



Khan Sahib what if the PAF opened up a Limited Liability Transport Company in that they procure a fleet of transport aircraft, develop a client roster, civilian staff roster, increase the fleet as the business increases & divides the time spent between commercial transportation & military transportation in perhaps a 7:3 ratio. And they use the profits from their commercial activities (7) to finance the military transportation activities (3) in something of a Fauji Foundation concept taken to the next level ? 

Or am I getting too ahead of myself & its the finance & business enthusiast in me speaking up !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Argus Panoptes

Najam Khan said:


> Unfortunately after 5 decades with C-130 service; *they still think its present numbers with some 'modifications' are enough for them.* I won't go in detail, they know this so called 'air-lift capability' is their weakest link. Its not even enough to support PAF, leave the ground forces support aside.
> 
> 
> Food for thought: Some years ago a friend of mine wrote a paper on similar topic. *At that time PAF had 10 C-130s, whereas IAF had 11 transport units (some 210 aircraft If I am not mistaken? *).



A question Sir: Is the goal to meet our logistics requirements or is the goal parity with India?

Logistics come into play to a greater extent when supply lines are long and the hostilities extend over a period of time, both of which may not apply to our planning.


----------



## Najam Khan

Armstrong said:


> Khan Sahib what if the PAF opened up a Limited Liability Transport Company in that they procure a fleet of transport aircraft, develop a client roster, civilian staff roster, *increase the fleet as the business increases & divides the time spent between commercial transportation & military transportation in perhaps a 7:3 ratio. *And they use the profits from their commercial activities (7) to finance the military transportation activities (3) in something of a Fauji Foundation concept taken to the next level ?
> 
> Or am I getting too ahead of myself & its the finance & business enthusiast in me speaking up !



Some concerns with this logic:

1. You would distribute professional AF pilots into commercial+AF role. Resulting not so good training opportunities for the fresh ones. 

2. Too much budget and investment required, where would you get that?

3. With present strength of aircraft and allocated budget this would Impact on AF operations.



Argus Panoptes said:


> A question Sir: Is the goal to meet our logistics requirements or is the goal parity with India?



Obviously that is meeting your requirements, but do you think 16 C-130s or few IL-78s are enough for your 500,000 army? 
Subtract 30-40% of this strength which may not always be 'in the best health' to participate.

Regarding your second point:


Argus Panoptes said:


> Logistics come into play to a greater extent when supply lines are long and the hostilities extend over a period of time, both of which may not apply to our planning.



Pick the map of Pakistan and do some maths; see where might be potential landing/drop zones and you'll get your answer.

Land forces take Air support (whether in form of air-lift or close-air-support) very seriously; you have to see faces of army officers when AF jets show poor performance in strafing exercise with army. For AF; its not their primary role but for the latter its their only help from above.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Armstrong

Najam Khan said:


> Some concerns with this logic:
> 
> 1. You would distribute professional AF pilots into commercial+AF role. Resulting not so good training opportunities for the fresh ones.
> 
> 2. Too much budget and investment required, where would you get that?
> 
> 3. With present strength of aircraft and allocated budget this would Impact on AF operations.



Khan Sahib, I was thinking more along these lines : 

(1) Get the Ex-PAF pilots along with Civilian pilots for the job ! Keep the Airforce Professional & the Professionals working for LLC completely separate in much the same way the Fauji Foundation works but only better. Let it be an absolutely civilian managed business venture that is simply jump started by the PAF & that the PAF as an equity partner (owner) of the Company instead of getting a profit-share or dividends instead gets transport services from the Company at nominal, subsidized or even zero-cost rates proportional to their share of the profits. 

I'm just giving a general idea here. 

(2) I'm not asking for this to take off from day 1 but instead it be thought of as a 10-15 year long term investment with gradual growth; perhaps starting it up with as little as $100-200 million in equity ! 

(3) No sir, keep the PAF aircraft & the Company aircraft completely separate just use the services as & when (a) the capability is built in & (b) we've got the profits to use them ! Which is to say just start with 1-2 Antanovs & perhaps over a 15 year period increase it to a fleet of 15-20 of them ! But of course you utilize the best industry professional out there - All civilians or Ex-PAF !

Think of it as a service provider that you created by employing the best civilian minds out there & the initial capital & you utilize that service intelligently but you don't have to pay for it because you're the owner even if you're not a part of its day-to-day operations. Keep the PAF & the Company staff completely separate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

PK LOC's are short. army needs PAF help in the northern areas and has built its own medium lift capability (helos) for re-supply in difficult terrain. on the plains of punjab and sindh, the army would rely heavily on railways and its own trucks. where PAF's role becomes critical is in time of war, when war material has to be air-lifted from friendly countries (turkey, china etc). are 16 C-130's and 4 IL-78's sufficient for this?...i cant say. comparing to what India has dosnt make sense...their requirements are different and their LOC's longer than ours....so their dependence on air-lift.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## aziqbal

If friendly country's air lift supply's chances are they could also supply the transport, Turkey has a formidable air lift capability and China has no shortage of transports either, they could use unmarked aircraft for these operations

However a Sqaudron of Y-9 aircraft would not go a miss, say 12 units

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

aziqbal said:


> If friendly country's air lift supply's chances are they could also supply the transport, Turkey has a formidable air lift capability and China has no shortage of transports either, they could use unmarked aircraft for these operations
> 
> However a Sqaudron of Y-9 aircraft would not go a miss, say 12 units



you will be surprised to know that TAF has roughly the same number of C-130's as PAF
Y-12 is a light utility a/c


----------



## TaimiKhan

fatman17 said:


> you will be surprised to know that TAF has roughly the same number of C-130's as PAF
> Y-12 is a light utility a/c



Sir ji, the guy mentioned Y-9, its something close to C-130. If the aerial platform of ZDK-03 impresses PAF officials in its maintenance / cost analysis, i think we should start thinking to get some Y-9s or Y8-600s in service provided they are as good as C-130s or better.


----------



## fatman17

TaimiKhan said:


> Sir ji, the guy mentioned Y-9, its something close to C-130. If the aerial platform of ZDK-03 impresses PAF officials in its maintenance / cost analysis, i think we should start thinking to get some Y-9s or Y8-600s in service provided they are as good as C-130s or better.



my bad....my age is showing i guess..



TaimiKhan said:


> Sir ji, the guy mentioned Y-9, its something close to C-130. If the aerial platform of ZDK-03 impresses PAF officials in its maintenance / cost analysis, i think we should start thinking to get some Y-9s or Y8-600s in service provided they are as good as C-130s or better.



Y-9 tech is either =to or less than C-130H technology. so a few 2-3 Y-9's wont hurt i guess.


----------



## Jango

Liquidmetal said:


> I love these great images! how do you guys find them? What is your secret?
> 
> Thank you and may we see more please.



No secret my friend, just social media, my friends keep these and I just copy!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aziqbal

fatman17 said:


> you will be surprised to know that TAF has roughly the same number of C-130's as PAF
> Y-12 is a light utility a/c



I do not think you are up to date with Turkish air lift, 

In addition to C130 they have more than 50 x CN-235, 15 x C160, And a partner in the A400 programme with 10 units on order 

In the coming years Turkey will have the ability to air drop a entire Brigade


----------



## Liquidmetal

aziqbal said:


> I do not think you are up to date with Turkish air lift,
> 
> In addition to C130 they have more than 50 x CN-235, 15 x C160, And a partner in the A400 programme with 10 units on order
> 
> In the coming years Turkey will have the ability to air drop a entire Brigade



Considering the size of the possible war front on either side, PAF should have gone in for the Aussie C130s, with PAC's superb rehaul abilities these C130 would have been a great addition in our airlift ability. Is there a possibility PAF might go for this option?


----------



## fatman17

Liquidmetal said:


> Considering the size of the possible war front on either side, PAF should have gone in for the Aussie C130s, with PAC's superb rehaul abilities these C130 would have been a great addition in our airlift ability. Is there a possibility PAF might go for this option?



they did 6 in 2001-02


----------



## Liquidmetal

fatman17 said:


> they did 6 in 2001-02



I have heard that Australia is considering retiring their C130Hs, so it would make sense to pick these up cheap and then overhaul them in PAC bringing them back to virtually new!!.


----------



## Jango

The C-130 in jungle camo...what is it's specialty???


----------



## 474474

nuclearpak said:


> The C-130 in jungle camo...what is it's specialty???



Wuld it be any use to paint the white one in camo?


----------



## TaimiKhan

nuclearpak said:


> The C-130 in jungle camo...what is it's specialty???



One of the C-130s equipped with the FLIR system used for night operations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> One of the C-130s equipped with the FLIR system used for night operations.



SIr jee kisi aur ko bhi mauqa diya karain!



474474 said:


> Wuld it be any use to paint the white one in camo?



Nope, no use whatsoever. What do you have in mind BTW?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Liquidmetal said:


> I have heard that Australia is considering retiring their C130Hs, so it would make sense to pick these up cheap and then overhaul them in PAC bringing them back to virtually new!!.



always we look 2nd grade garbage of others? common man pak forces need heavy lifters new and gun ship helicopters gov should provide them .


----------



## Liquidmetal

Imran Khan said:


> always we look 2nd grade garbage of others? common man pak forces need heavy lifters new and gun ship helicopters gov should provide them .



when you don't have money, then make do with the 2nd hand stuff, and C130 are great aircraft and these c130h are good and after they have been renewed by PAC they could go on for another 10/15 years while giving us great airlift capability. 

Of course of Pakistan turns a new leaf and 1 concentrates on the economy and 2 collects taxes, then yes would love to see new stuff inc c17 if our pockets become deep enough. In the meantime we have 2 hot borders and we need to get what we can, with the means we have now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 474474

nuclearpak said:


> SIr jee kisi aur ko bhi mauqa diya karain!
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, no use whatsoever. What do you have in mind BTW?



extra transport in emergencies


----------



## razgriz19

nuclearpak said:


> The C-130 in jungle camo...what is it's specialty???



Is the A310 now permanent part of the air force for VIP transport?
or is it operated by the PIA?


----------



## Donatello

Imran Khan said:


> always we look 2nd grade garbage of others? common man pak forces need heavy lifters new and gun ship helicopters gov should provide them .




You providing the funds?


----------



## muse

Donatello said:


> You providing the funds?



Come on now, there is no shortage of funds, what there is, is mismanagement and really all kinds of funding and FDI will show up IF Pakistan clean up it's act and instead of dealing with the Islamist terrorist enemy and their ideology with kid gloves, decides and shows the world that Pakistan have turned a corner.


----------



## Donatello

muse said:


> Come on now, there is no shortage of funds, what there is, is mismanagement and really all kinds of funding and FDI will show up IF Pakistan clean up it's act and instead of dealing with the Islamist terrorist enemy and their ideology with kid gloves, decides and shows the world that Pakistan have turned a corner.



Sir,

We have no money. We are completely broke.

See, the government gets money from two sources:

The state owned enterprises which in case of Pakistan, like PIA, Pakistan Railways are bankrupt and loss making,

second, from citizens who pay taxes and customs. hardly anyone pays taxes. 

Now tell me, where will the government get the money from?

Any revenue the government generates, a large part of it goes back to paying back the loans from IMF and other nations.


----------



## muse

Donatello said:


> Now tell me, where will the government get the money from?



Where it always gets money from - Donors. and IFI


----------



## razgriz19

They still kept the old livery.
I really like the new golden/green livery

This is a video taken in 2012. not sure if posted here before

Bird's age is 24.4 years.


----------



## Bratva

Is it PAF VIP transport aircraft behind?


----------



## Last Hope

mafiya said:


> Is the PAF VIP transport aircraft?



Yes it is a PAF Gulfstream.


----------



## Bratva

Last Hope said:


> Yes it is a PAF Gulfstream.



and can we assume one way trip from islamabad to lahore would cost 100 K (operating and fuel costs )


----------



## razgriz19

mafiya said:


> and can we assume one way trip from islamabad to lahore would cost 100 K (operating and fuel costs )



15-20K max.
And I don't get it. Why in the world PAF bought Phenoms when they're NOT being used on short haul??
They would be MUCH more efficient than using G450s on a short journey.


----------



## Last Hope

mafiya said:


> and can we assume one way trip from islamabad to lahore would cost 100 K (operating and fuel costs )



100K Ruppee? Yes even more.


----------



## Bratva

Last Hope said:


> 100K Ruppee? Yes even more.



Yes 100 K ruppee,,, i was asking because, a 3 hour motorway trip on car costs 2000 ruppess at max,,, why the hell our honorable prime minister spend 100 K on traveling as it's not an official visit nor he is dispensing any government of Pakistan assigned duty that he had to take such an luxurious aircraft 


and mother of irony is motorway was his focal point in election campaign


----------



## Last Hope

Because he doesn't have to pay for the money, the taxpayers he worries about will have to pay for it. He could have used a B747 for as he cares.


----------



## fatman17

Last Hope said:


> Because he doesn't have to pay for the money, the taxpayers he worries about will have to pay for it. He could have used a B747 for as he cares.




yar phenom 100 mai abi sair nahi ki thee....let him enjoy his 100 days in power and then see what happens....the dogs of war will be braying for his know u what...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

razgriz19 said:


> 15-20K max.
> And I don't get it. Why in the world PAF bought Phenoms when they're NOT being used on short haul??
> They would be MUCH more efficient than using G450s on a short journey.



Phenoms etc are for use by Corp COmmanders and other people like that (and also for journos!), PM and COAS and other top honchos use the Gulfstream.


----------



## niaz

mafiya said:


> Yes 100 K ruppee,,, i was asking because, a 3 hour motorway trip on car costs 2000 ruppess at max,,, why the hell our honorable prime minister spend 100 K on traveling as it's not an official visit nor he is dispensing any government of Pakistan assigned duty that he had to take such an luxurious aircraft
> 
> 
> and mother of irony is motorway was his focal point in election campaign




Answer is the same as for the senior industry executives who use private jets. VVIPs are never really free. You wouldnt want them wasting time on long road trips.

Whether official or not; time of a prime Minister or any other very senior executive is worth more than the cost of the private airplane trip.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bratva

niaz said:


> *Answer is the same as for the senior industry executives who use private jets. VVIPs are never really free. You wouldn&#8217;t want them wasting time on long road trips.
> *
> Whether official or not; time of a prime Minister or any other very senior executive is worth more than the cost of the private airplane trip.




That's the normal SOP, but there is a thing, he promised he will pay from his pocket if do this kind of things, so I was guesstimating and thinking and speculating whether he paid from his pocket or not


----------



## SBD-3

razgriz19 said:


> 15-20K max.
> And I don't get it. Why in the world PAF bought Phenoms when they're NOT being used on short haul??
> They would be MUCH more efficient than using G450s on a short journey.



The info states that Phenom has seatng capacity of 4-6 whereas gulfstream can accommodate 14-19 people. This might be a reason to use gulfstream than phenom.


----------



## imiakhtar

Once you take into account fuel + maintenance + aircraft depreciation (and smaller costs such as ATS and flight crew), the cost of operating a G450/500/550 is usually in the $5000-$6000 per flight hour. This cost can depend on a number of factors such as operating climate (sand and heat are not good for jet engines), and whether or not the aircraft/engines are under warranty or maintenance agreements. In Pakistan, it wouldn't surprise me if the cost per flight hour exceeded $7000 for the G450.

https://www.conklindd.com/CDALibrary/ACCostSummary.aspx

Having said that, the transportation of VIPs is within the remit of most airforces around the world, and vile creatures they may be, I do not see why this should be any different for govt officials and state representatives in Pakistan.

It would be better to sucker up the costs for vip flights than have to pay for a general election if a politician's motorcade was blown up.


----------



## Liquidmetal

imiakhtar said:


> Once you take into account fuel + maintenance + aircraft depreciation (and smaller costs such as ATS and flight crew), the cost of operating a G450/500/550 is usually in the $5000-$6000 per flight hour. This cost can depend on a number of factors such as operating climate (sand and heat are not good for jet engines), and whether or not the aircraft/engines are under warranty or maintenance agreements. In Pakistan, it wouldn't surprise me if the cost per flight hour exceeded $7000 for the G450.
> 
> https://www.conklindd.com/CDALibrary/ACCostSummary.aspx
> 
> Having said that, the transportation of VIPs is within the remit of most airforces around the world, and vile creatures they may be, I do not see why this should be any different for govt officials and state representatives in Pakistan.
> 
> It would be better to sucker up the costs for vip flights than have to pay for a general election if a politician's motorcade was blown up.



Can we volunteer some of those vile politicians to be included in that motorcade, the greasy monkey Zardari and his smug son come to mind.


----------



## Imran Khan

mafiya said:


> and can we assume one way trip from islamabad to lahore would cost 100 K (operating and fuel costs )



lolzz where you live bro ? gulfstreame IV Fuel Cost Per Hour: $2627.3
more then 2 lakhs 60k per hour  only fuel


----------



## khanboy007

nuclearpak said:


> The C-130 in jungle camo...what is it's specialty???



i have a question  is the White airbus pictured above used for VIP transport??? if so, then is the one gifted by the qatari emir to us, (which was received in feb 2007) ???

Air transports of heads of state and government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (check out pakistan section  )


----------



## Imran Khan

khanboy007 said:


> i have a question  is the White airbus pictured above used for VIP transport??? if so, then is the one gifted by the qatari emir to us, (which was received in feb 2007) ???
> 
> Air transports of heads of state and government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (check out pakistan section  )



my dear sir its no more VIP or PAF bird . gov handed it over to PIA LAST MONTH

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanboy007

Imran Khan said:


> my dear sir its no more VIP or PAF bird . gov handed it over to PIA LAST MONTH



but was it the same one (gift) ???


----------



## nomi007

can our c-130 have capability of flares


----------



## Imran Khan

khanboy007 said:


> but was it the same one (gift) ???



yes it was same 

here you have my old post




Imran Khan said:


> sir gee you are getting old  Qatar was gifted A-310 one of their VIP fleet to pakistan not UAE
> 
> it was CN-473 and OLD registration name was A7-AAF Airbus A310-304
> 
> here it was in 2006
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and now AP-001

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> my dear sir its no more VIP or PAF bird . gov handed it over to PIA LAST MONTH



Sab kehnay ki batain hoti hain.


----------



## nomi007

india gets its 1st c-17 globemaster aircraft
they also purchase c-130j 
have pakistan any plan to get these aircrafts or chinese y-9 or y-20


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> india gets its 1st c-17 globemaster aircraft
> they also purchase c-130j
> have pakistan any plan to get these aircrafts or chinese y-9 or y-20



not that we know of.....


----------



## Luftwaffe

nomi007 said:


> have pakistan any plan to get these aircrafts or chinese y-9 or y-20



No Funds, no Plans too early for Y-20, PAF operated C-130s long enough 45+ Years there is a complete infrastructure in place therefore no need to go for Y-9 in future but any C-130 variants should be the future whenever PAF is ready.


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## muse

Just saw a picture of AN70 in Paris - I was under the impression that An had lost the two prototypes and the aircraft was no more - I hope this option is one the PAF will consider along with Y9 and Y20


----------



## nomi007

muse said:


> Just saw a picture of AN70 in Paris - I was under the impression that An had lost the two prototypes and the aircraft was no more - I hope this option is one the PAF will consider along with Y9 and Y20


its not mockup its real plan
Ukrainians still have 2plans

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Luftwaffe

How come nobody is celebrating 50 Years of C-130s in PAF service and operations.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

nomi007 said:


> india gets its 1st c-17 globemaster aircraft
> they also purchase c-130j
> have pakistan any plan to get these aircrafts or chinese y-9 or y-20



Pakistan don't need heavy strategic transports due to small size and short distances.Light tactical transports and medium transports are enough for special forces and army aviation.PA seems to understand this well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Pakistan don't need heavy strategic transports due to small size and short distances.Light tactical transports and medium transports are enough for special forces and army aviation.PA seems to understand this well.



But some want it all, without understanding the difference between what you want, and what you really need.. and more C-130's are the way to go.
That being said, the AN-70 is an attractive aircraft that fits nicely into a gap .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Armstrong

Oscar said:


> But some want it all, without understanding the difference between what you want, and what you really need.. and more C-130's are the way to go.
> That being said, the AN-70 is an attractive aircraft that fits nicely into a gap .



How much can the lack of credible air transport platforms be compensated by having a well developed road & train network ?


----------



## Gessler

Armstrong said:


> How much can the lack of credible air transport platforms be compensated by having a well developed road & train network ?



...and you'll be needing a larger number of locomotives as well.

325 out of 465 Railway Engines have become heaps of garbage : Pak railway minister

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

Armstrong said:


> How much can the lack of credible air transport platforms be compensated by having a well developed road & train network ?



As much as that can be compensated for by placing supplies and resources closer to the battlefield. However, A transport plane can airdrop supplies into a valley.. it might take a while for trucks to get to a section...then for mules to carry it further.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gessler

> First 7 C-130B delivered by the U.S. in early 1960s, a further 4 C-130B and 5 C-130E delivered later from Iran, 2 civilian versions (L-100-20) transferred from PIA and 2 more ex-USAF C-130B models.
> 
> All surviving B and E model aircraft modified with addition of Allison T56-A-15 turboprops and extended fatigue lives by Lockheed-Georgia Co. at Marietta by 1987. At least 25 attritional losses pre-1988 and 10 more in 1988.
> 
> Sale of 6 ex-Australian C-130E with wing/engine/avionics upgrades, plus 1 aircraft for spare parts, concluded with U.S. in September 2004. First aircraft delivered October/November 2005.
> 
> Avionics upgrades for the PAF's entire C-130 fleet also included, upgrades progressing as of 1 May 2009.



It appears the majority of PAF's C-130 fleet is second-hand.

Any plans in the near future to add more first-hand models with more service life?



> One aircraft retrofitted with SABIR (Special Airborne Mission Installation & Response System) which is a FLIRT System that has Brite Star II and Star Safire III EO/IR sensors (this a 'bolt on system' and is installed in place of the parachute door) This system was extensively used during operation in FATA, for target acquisition and intel.



Any plans to fit more C-130s with such stuff?

Source for all quotes: Wikipedia


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

gessler said:


> It appears the majority of PAF's C-130 fleet is second-hand.
> 
> Any plans in the near future to add more first-hand models with more service life?



the only new transport plan we can get will be chinese probably Shaanxi Y-9


----------



## nomi007

Largest-C-130-formation-ever-flown

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Gessler said:


> It appears the majority of PAF's C-130 fleet is second-hand.
> 
> Any plans in the near future to add more first-hand models with more service life?



We have a rebuild and overhauling factory of C-130s.... all of which have been upgraded with new cockpits,new avionics,new engines etc etc...


> Any plans to fit more C-130s with such stuff?
> 
> Source for all quotes: Wikipedia



BS source... several C-130s have been fitted with such systems... the number is more or less classified... the news was first broken by a western journalist Alan Warnes.... in 2011? 2012?....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> Largest-C-130-formation-ever-flown



count em...!


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

fatman17 said:


> count em...!


17 OR 16
....................


----------



## Bratva

Is it some kind of senosor? MAWS?


----------



## Jango

mafiya said:


> Is it some kind of senosor? MAWS?



No, that's just the place for the loadmaster...maybe the PAF employs a refueling overwatch there.


----------



## Windjammer

mafiya said:


> Is it some kind of senosor? MAWS?



Isn't that the station for the boom operator.!!


----------



## nomi007

wasm95 said:


> 17 OR 16
> ....................






fatman17 said:


> count em...!



Twenty C-130Js


----------



## Donatello

Windjammer said:


> Isn't that the station for the boom operator.!!



I believe the IL78 Tankers are not boom type but rather drogue type, as only the F-16s in the PAF fleet require boom refueling.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Windjammer

Donatello said:


> I believe the IL78 Tankers are not boom type but rather drogue type, as only the F-16s in the PAF fleet require boom refueling.



But don't they both require an operator/monitor in the rear quarters.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

nuclearpak said:


> No, that's just the place for the loadmaster...maybe the PAF employs a refueling overwatch there.



In case of the Il-78 Re-fuellers; its for the Drogue Refuelling Transfer Controller. In a 'Boom Refueller' like KC-135s the Boom Operator would be sited there. The early Il-76s had a twin-gun mount there which was found redundant and removed, Later Il-76 transporters had the glazed section blanked over in some case, while some retained a plain observor station.


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

Windjammer said:


> Isn't that the station for the boom operator.!!



Cabin of boom operator is here .....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Israel Received today the first C-130J Super Hercules: &#8216;Shimshon&#8217;





and we are increasing tax on mobile recharge 

dammit


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> Israel Received today the first C-130J Super Hercules: &#8216;Shimshon&#8217;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and we are increasing tax on mobile recharge
> 
> dammit



what is the co-relation here....


----------



## nomi007

fatman17 said:


> what is the co-relation here....


which type of think tank you are bro?

c-130e model





Multi Functional Display (MFD) screens of C-130E


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bratva

Right click and open pic set in new tab to see enlarge pics. R09-001 in china to return chinese remains and leaving afterwards

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Bratva

In ukrain to return the remains of ukranians killed






Ð&#8221;Ð²Ð¾Ðµ Ð°Ð»Ñ&#338;Ð¿Ð¸Ð½Ð¸ÑÑ&#8218;Ð¾Ð² Ð²ÐµÑ&#8364;Ð½Ñ&#402;Ð»Ð¸ÑÑ&#338; Ð¸Ð· Ð&#376;Ð°ÐºÐ¸ÑÑ&#8218;Ð°Ð½Ð° Ñ Ð²ÐµÑ&#8240;Ð°Ð¼Ð¸ ÑÐºÑÐ¿ÐµÐ´Ð¸Ñ&#8224;Ð¸Ð¸ - MediaPort

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

mafiya said:


>



Bara jaggu pilot hai.

Landing gear retraction this early?

But the IL-78's climb profile is also very shallow....

Since this is a whole sequence of pics, I can't post the lone pic...I am talking about the 4th one, where the aircraft is just above the ground.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bratva

nuclearpak said:


> Bara jaggu pilot hai.
> 
> Landing gear retraction this early?
> 
> But the IL-78's climb profile is also very shallow....
> 
> Since this is a whole sequence of pics, I can't post the lone pic...I am talking about the 4th one, where the aircraft is just above the ground.



Maal e muft, dil e bay rahm?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jango

Saw this plane coming in to land at Chaklala when Nawaz Sharif returned from China.

BTW, can you post some more sequences of IL-78 take-offs? Would be interesting to see where other pilots do the landing gear retractions on take off...is it routine to do it this early, or was the pilot doing experiments!


----------



## Bratva

nuclearpak said:


> Saw this plane coming in to land at Chaklala when Nawaz Sharif returned from China.
> 
> BTW, can you post some more sequences of IL-78 take-offs? Would be interesting to see where other pilots do the landing gear retractions on take off...is it routine to do it this early, or was the pilot doing experiments!



unfortunately no such sequence photos exist anywhere.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

mafiya said:


> Right click and open pic set in new tab to see enlarge pics. R09-001 in china to return chinese remains and leaving afterwards


What?
There is cockpit in its a$$ too??


----------



## razgriz19

Umair Nawaz said:


> What?
> There is cockpit in its a$$ too??



Its a cold war era air plane.
That's just a machine gun post


----------



## TaimiKhan

razgriz19 said:


> Its a cold war era air plane.
> That's just a machine gun post



In there sits the person who controls the aerial refueling probes. 

Keeps an eye on the aircraft being refueled.


----------



## Jango

mafiya said:


> unfortunately no such sequence photos exist anywhere.



I've seen a few videos, and in all of them the landing gears retract later on.

As I said, bara jaggu pilot hai!


----------



## Alpha1

Has paf any plans to convert some C130s into gunships?


----------



## Nishan_101

PAF could have look towards 11 of these along with the present C-130 which was facing spare problems in 1980s:
Transall C-160 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## muse

Nishan_101 said:


> PAF could have look towards 11 of these along with the present C-130 which was facing spare problems in 1980s:
> Transall C-160 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



WHY these ships? Maybe it's just me but what about learning from history (sanctions)?


----------



## fatman17

transall 160 are obsolete aircraft. i'd rather buy more C-130's.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## razgriz19

TaimiKhan said:


> In there sits the person who controls the aerial refueling probes.
> 
> Keeps an eye on the aircraft being refueled.



okay, you might be correct for IL-78, but its a gun post in IL-76.


----------



## Luftwaffe

fatman17 said:


> transall 160 are obsolete aircraft. i'd rather buy more C-130's.



More C-130s refurbish and upgrade them and most importantly them all upgrade to the glass cockpit.


----------



## Jango

Anybody else living in Rwp or Isb hearing and seeing a C-130 flying low for the past 3 hours?

Somebody's training real hard to get night time flying hours under his belt!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Capt.Popeye

nuclearpak said:


> Anybody else living in Rwp or Isb hearing and seeing a C-130 flying low for the past 3 hours?
> 
> Somebody's training real hard to get night time flying hours under his belt!



Well; it could be that. Or there is some flap on.


----------



## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> Anybody else living in Rwp or Isb hearing and seeing a C-130 flying low for the past 3 hours?
> 
> Somebody's training real hard to get night time flying hours under his belt!



Someone said that they heard faint noises similar for a long time, could very well be it!


----------



## Capt.Popeye

razgriz19 said:


> okay, you might be correct for IL-78, but its a gun post in IL-76.



It _used to be _a gun turret on the Il-76s. Not anymore. The Soviets discontinued that quite some time ago. Now many of the Il-76 Candids do not even have any glass windows there anymore.


----------



## hassan1

PAF Y-12 HARBIN



PAF Gulfstream IV-SP



PAF Embraer Phenom 100

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

C-130 buzzing past my house for the last hour or so. 

So low it feels as if I could touch it!

Really Awesome. The last time I experienced such low flying over Isl was when the 2005 earthquake came.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Armstrong

nuclearpak said:


> C-130 buzzing past my house for the last hour or so.


 
Kiyaa koi Address dhooond rahaa haiii ?  

Or is this some sort of a Training Exercise or something ?  



nuclearpak said:


> So low it feels as if I could touch it!



Touch it...I dare you ! 

But then that would require more Jigraaa than most Gooners have !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

Armstrong said:


> Kiyaa koi Address dhooond rahaa haiii ?
> 
> Or is this some sort of a Training Exercise or something ?



Some night flying hours requiring filling I suppose.



> Touch it...I dare you !
> 
> But then that would require more Jigraaa than most Gooners have !



Yar agr seerhi hoti to touch kar bhi leta.


----------



## Jango

Armstrong said:


> Kiyaa koi Address dhooond rahaa haiii ?
> 
> Or is this some sort of a Training Exercise or something ?



Some night flying hours requiring filling I suppose.



> Touch it...I dare you !
> 
> But then that would require more Jigraaa than most Gooners have !



Yar agr seerhi hoti to touch kar bhi leta.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Armstrong

nuclearpak said:


> Some night flying hours requiring filling I suppose.
> 
> Yar agr seerhi hoti to touch kar bhi leta.



Dude on a separate & serious note when I visited Singapore a while back....we went to one of the Islands on a Cruise ! I saw F-16s & some other twin engined jet (I dunno whether it was a Flanker or some F-15 type thing) multiple times cruising over head....I swear it was only a couple of hundred meters up because I could swear that I saw an IFR Probe on one of them ! 

Now I don't know whether they belong to the Singapore Air Force or whether they were Malaysian/Indonesians but it was a joy to see an Air Craft fly that close !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

Armstrong said:


> Dude on a separate & serious note when I visited Singapore a while back....we went to one of the Islands on a Cruise ! I saw F-16s & some other twin engined jet (I dunno whether it was a Flanker or some F-15 type thing) multiple times cruising over head....I swear it was only a couple of hundred meters up because I could swear that I saw an IFR Probe on one of them !
> 
> Now I don't know whether they belong to the Singapore Air Force or whether they were Malaysian/Indonesians but it was a joy to see an Air Craft fly that close !



It's always a joy.

The annual parade gave us an opportunity to view jets this close in Islamabad...last time I saw jets uo close was at the Dubai Skydiving championships. Al-Fursan (UAE aerobatics team) and some other solo guy performed, that solo guy was so close I could have touched the plan if I wanted to (seriously). Watch on youtube about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Last Hope

Armstrong said:


> Dude on a separate & serious note when I visited Singapore a while back....we went to one of the Islands on a Cruise ! I saw F-16s & some other twin engined jet (I dunno whether it was a Flanker or some F-15 type thing) multiple times cruising over head....I swear it was only a couple of hundred meters up because I could swear that I saw an IFR Probe on one of them !
> 
> Now I don't know whether they belong to the Singapore Air Force or whether they were Malaysian/Indonesians but it was a joy to see an Air Craft fly that close !



I live near Air Base, walking distance, parallel to end of a runway. I always have joy of watching 'everything' land, from P-9C to F-15, Tornado to Hawks, Gulfstream to C-130, A-310 to B-747. I've also seen a Tornado cruising a couple of meters above, I've seen 'a huge number' of fighter jets landing together (Figure was over 50, way above 50).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mkg00179504

i used to be very excited for the 23rd march parade because that was the only time where we get to see so many fighter jets and also other military equipment unfortunately its not happening due to security reasons,but had a chance to visit PAF base and observe some take of and landings.My brother in law took me he is a GDP himself.I live in the US and very close to the air port so i get to see big heavy planes landing and taking off but i really wanted to see some fighter jets, so got lucky and went to the air show at Jones Beach.There were so many air crafts new,old also diff choppers but the best one was F 18 Super Hornet.Well well well can't put it into words the feeling it gave me when all of a sudden from no where F 18 made a high speed pass from the left to the right and so low on the beach.Everyone was like OMG thats cool but as the jet passed the loud crazy noise just made my day.
I got another chance of seeing blue angles performing at Atlantic City beach about 3 hrs away from me but just went for the air show.I always say to my self i will never see that kind of air show again ever the one performed by the Blue Angles.An air show based on pure skill its just amazing.I am glad made the right decision and went to the air show because Blue Angles are not performing any more because of budget cuts. Also had a chance to see black hawk very low above the Potomac river between DC and Virginia.It look very aggressive and the sound is too heavy very diff from other choppers.
Sorry i went off topic but some of you were talking about air shows, so i thought i should share my experience.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nishan_101

Source: IDEAS 2006 - Pakistan Military Photos

Is PAF looking in to buy some Chinese C-130J and CN-295 alternative, and does such alternative is present now.
Also RSAF is also going to replace their C-130 with new ones. Will PAF going to buy them to support and increase the current fleet of aircraft.


----------



## Last Hope

Nishan_101 said:


> Source: IDEAS 2006 - Pakistan Military Photos
> 
> *Is PAF looking in to buy some Chinese C-130J and CN-295 alternative, and does such alternative is present now.*
> Also RSAF is also going to replace their C-130 with new ones. Will PAF going to buy them to support and increase the current fleet of aircraft.



No.

For later, part, possible.


----------



## Jango

How many FLIR equipped C-130's does PAF have?

Because today I saw a C-130 with serial number of either 3669 or 3699 with a FLIR at Chaklala.


----------



## Argus Panoptes

Last Hope said:


> I live near Air Base, walking distance, parallel to end of a runway. I always have joy of watching 'everything' land, from P-9C to F-15, Tornado to Hawks, Gulfstream to C-130, A-310 to B-747. I've also seen a Tornado cruising a couple of meters above, I've seen 'a huge number' of fighter jets landing together (Figure was over 50, way above 50).



You should get some nice photos for us to share.


----------



## Donatello

nuclearpak said:


> How many FLIR equipped C-130's does PAF have?
> 
> Because today I saw a C-130 with serial number of either 3669 or 3699 with a FLIR at Chaklala.



I asked a similar question sometime ago. The real number is classified i guess, unless you are able to photograph every single C-130 PAF has. It's only 16 of them.


----------



## Black Eagle 90

Donatello said:


> I asked a similar question sometime ago. The real number is classified i guess, unless you are able to photograph every single C-130 PAF has. It's only 16 of them.



I am preety sure that all of the C-130s have FLIR pods under nose and they put it under it when they need it.

I am sure that they number might go up as RSAF C-130s would be available to PAF to purchase on lowest cost possible.


----------



## Jango

Donatello said:


> I asked a similar question sometime ago. The real number is classified i guess, unless you are able to photograph every single C-130 PAF has. It's only 16 of them.



Yesterday I saw this serial number for the first time.

This makes it 2 or 3 FLIR C-130's in PAF.


----------



## Donatello

nuclearpak said:


> Yesterday I saw this serial number for the first time.
> 
> This makes it 2 or 3 FLIR C-130's in PAF.




Nabil sahab stated that the actual number is classified. But an article in a magazine/journal stated the number to be several.

However, considering the system was purchased and installed by the PAF it self in Pakistan, i wouldn't be surprised PAF goes for fleet wide installation. It's a cheap add on and the capability it provides is massive. Maybe PAF can apply the same to he CASA CN-235 as well.


----------



## Luftwaffe

Black Eagle 90 said:


> I am sure that they number might go up as RSAF C-130s would be available to PAF to purchase on lowest cost possible.



You are late 6 RSAF C-130s are sold for below $70m in total to Turkish Air Force, Pakistan should have negotiated.


----------



## razgriz19

Luftwaffe said:


> You are late 6 RSAF C-130s are sold for below $70m in total to Turkish Air Force, Pakistan should have negotiated.



Canada will retire its 6 H models in 2017, we might be able to get those for fairly cheap price.


----------



## fatman17

razgriz19 said:


> Canada will retire its 6 H models in 2017, we might be able to get those for fairly cheap price.



canada has a ban on military sales to PK.


----------



## Nishan_101

Luftwaffe said:


> You are late 6 RSAF C-130s are sold for below $70m in total to Turkish Air Force, Pakistan should have negotiated.



Yes. I know that and I was wondering that what has happened to the PAF?

I really opted that PAF should contract with RSAF for the purchase of their 30 C-130s in coming 7-10 years time as aircraft as well as spares on a cost that PAF will going to pay them in NON INTEREST bearing installments.

TuAF could buy some from Australia and else where, although they are getting A-400Ms. But PAF will be in great need of these birds in coming decade too.


----------



## Last Hope

fatman17 said:


> canada has a ban on military sales to PK.



What exact reason do they quote?


----------



## Argus Panoptes

Last Hope said:


> What exact reason do they quote?



Canada banned military supplies to Pakistan in 1998 after we carried out the nuclear tests.


----------



## fatman17

Last Hope said:


> What exact reason do they quote?



how about they dont like us...!


----------



## Luftwaffe

razgriz19 said:


> Canada will retire its 6 H models in 2017, we might be able to get those for fairly cheap price.



As fatman stated ban on any military goods to Pakistan.

Other than that those C-130s are old enough, no point in acquiring aircraft with high rate of operations over a long time the airframe are stressed out.

Replacing Canada&#8217;s Failing CC-130s: 17 C-130Js


----------



## zilahumafazal

pakistan's energy crisis causes failures solutions


----------



## Super Falcon

well i think transport is backbone of all military they supple equipment medical facillites where no one can get to i think pakistan should have different type of aircraft solution now dont depend on one system


----------



## piddu

we love pakistan hardly


----------



## Imran Khan



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fatman17

we have....
16 C-130's being upgraded to H standard.
4 IL-78 MMRT's
4 CN-235's

we have enough transports for our requirements.


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> we have....
> 16 C-130's being upgraded to H standard.
> 4 IL-78 MMRT's
> 4 CN-235's
> 
> we have enough transports for our requirements.



what abut future sir ??????/


----------



## fatman17

Imran Khan said:


> what abut future sir ??????/



Y-8 has to be evaluated but it is not a mature platform as yet.
further C-130's can be purchased if the govt. has the finances.
IL-78's are another option but with updated engines and a glass cockpit.
Y-20 is a long way off.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> Y-8 has to be evaluated but it is not a mature platform as yet.
> further C-130's can be purchased if the govt. has the finances.
> IL-78's are another option but with updated engines and a glass cockpit.
> Y-20 is a long way off.



i would like to wait and got Y-20 sir even with any other engines then chines . we have long way to go and we have to got out of US umbrella in this type of birds too as we have 80% of our transport fleet US origin .



fatman17 said:


> Y-8 has to be evaluated but it is not a mature platform as yet.
> further C-130's can be purchased if the govt. has the finances.
> IL-78's are another option but with updated engines and a glass cockpit.
> Y-20 is a long way off.



i would like to wait and got Y-20 sir even with any other engines then chines . we have long way to go and we have to got out of US umbrella in this type of birds too as we have 80% of our transport fleet US origin .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

as long as the PA exists in its current form and status and US remains the sole imperial power - the Pentagon - PA nexus will remain - forget the high's and low's

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

IL-78 Midas Air-to-Air Refuelling / Transport Aircraft, 

Russian Federation


Key Data 

Crew Six 
Capacity 138,000kg 
Maiden Flight 26 June 1983 
Introduced 1984 
Number Built 53 
Manufacturer Ilyushin Aviation Complex 
Operators Russian Air Force, Ukrainian Air Force, Indian Air Force, Poeple's Liberation Army Air Force and Pakistani Air Force 



The Ilyushin IL-78 air-to-air refuelling tanker aircraft is a four-engine tanker principally used for in-flight refuelling. It was designed and developed on the basis of a similar predecessor, the IL-76, and has the Nato reporting name Midas. The maiden flight of IL-78 took place on 26 June 1983 and the aircraft entered into service in 1984. About 53 aircraft are currently operational worldwide.

The IL-78 aircraft can refuel a maximum of four planes simultaneously on the ground. It can also be used as a military transport aircraft for air drop and air landing of cargo and crew.

IL-78 aerial refuelling tanker variants
The IL-78 has five variants, namely IL-78T, IL-78M, IL-78ME, IL-78MKI, and IL-78MP.

IL-78T is an alternative version of the IL-78 primarily used for holding all cargo handling equipment and convertible freight.

Another variant, the IL-78M, is a consecrate tanker aircraft designed to perform only refuelling operations without being able to be converted into transport aircraft. It is equipped with three permanent fuselage tanks. The IL-78M took its maiden flight on 7 March 1987.

"The IL-78 aircraft can be used as a military transport aircraft for air drop and air landing of cargo and crew."The IL-78ME is an export version of IL-78M.

The IL-78MKI is a tailor-made variant of IL-78M and is equipped with Israeli fuel-transferring systems. These aircraft were deployed by the Indian Air Force (IAF) and can refuel six to eight Sukhoi Su-30MKIs in a single operation. The variant took its maiden flight on 11 January 2003.

The IL-78MP is a multipurpose aerial-refuelling tanker or transport aircraft. It is fitted with removable fuel tanks in the cargo hold and UPAZ refuelling pods.

These aircraft are deployed by the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) and can be easily converted to transport aircraft by removing the fuel tanks.

Midas orders and deliveries
In December 2008, the PAF signed an agreement with Ukraine to procure four IL-78 refuelling aircraft equipped with Russian-designed UPAZ refuelling pods.

The first IL-78 aircraft was delivered in December 2009. The second was delivered in 2010 and the third tanker in February 2011The fourth is yet to be delivered.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) placed an order for six IL-78s in 2003. The first refuelling aircraft equipped with Israeli-made aerial refuelling pods was delivered to IAF in March 2003. The IL-78 has a total fuel carrying capacity of 110,000kg.

The deliveries to IAF were completed in 2004. The aircraft have been deployed at the Agra Air Force Base in India.

The People's Liberation Army Air Force procured four IL-78s in 2005. The Russian and Ukrainian Air Forces operate 19 and eight IL-78 aircraft respectively.

IL-78 development
The IL-78 is derived from the IL-76. It was designed and developed by Ilyushin Aviation Complex, Russia to meet the requirements of Russian Air Force.

The aircraft was developed as part of the tanker project in 1982 to enhance the transferable fuel load of the earlier version IL-76. The IL-78 was developed as a three point air-to-air probe and drogue tanker aircraft and can deliver fuel at the rate of 900l to 2,200l a minute.

The new-generation aircraft (IL-78) is equipped with two removable 18,230l fuel tanks installed in the freight hold affording a transferable load of 85,720kg (188,584lb) with hold tanks and 57,720kg (126,984lb) without hold tanks as compared with the IL-76's transferable fuel load of 10,000kg. It is also fitted with a fuel jettison system at the wing tips.

The IL-78M variant is fitted with an additional freight hold tank on the fuselage section. It has increased the transferable fuel to 105,720kg (233,070lb) and the maximum take-off weight (MTOW) to 210,000kg to strengthen the wing torsion box. All cargo doors and cargo handling equipment were removed from the aircraft, reducing the structural weight by 5,000kg. Out of the total 138,000kg cargo, only 105,720kg is transferable.

A convertible refuelling tanker aircraft, the IL-78MK is developed based on the IL-78M. The IL-78MK can refuel three types of aircraft simultaneously in air or four aircraft on the ground using traditional refuelling tubes extending from the cargo hold.

The IL-78MK-90 is derived from IL-78MK. It is powered by PS-90A-76 turbofan engine, which has increased the cruise speed to 850km/h. The take-off and landing distances of the IL-78MK-90 are 1,550m and 40m respectively.

Refuelling
The primary air fuel transfer method is done through the UPAZ-1A (Il-78) or UPAZ-1M (Il-78M) refuelling units equipped to the outer wings and rear fuselage controlled by an operator located at the flight engineer's station in the cockpit. The receiver's aircraft is equipped with homing radar behind a broad flat aft-facing radome, which facilitates the efficient refuelling process.

"The IL-78 aircraft can refuel a maximum of four planes simultaneously on the ground."The IL-78 is fitted with wing-tip hose and drogue air refuelling pods. The receiving aircraft approaches the tanker and its probe makes contact with a hose reeled out and trailed from the tanker.

Inside the refuelling pods, a collapsible funnel-shaped drogue is attached to a hose, which is reeled out to trail behind the wing of the aircraft. The hose is fitted with a constant tension spring to give stability while it is extended.

IL-78 cockpit
The IL-78 has a glass cockpit that features five seats for two pilots, a communication officer, a navigator and a flight engineer. The two pilots sit at the front of the cockpit and just behind it is a seat reserved for the flight engineer. The outer corner of the flight engineer's seat is meant for the communication officer. One deck below the glass nose is the navigator's chair.

Avionics
The avionics of the IL-78 include an integrated (automated) flight control and navigation system with a compass system, ground surveillance radar, a central digital computer, an automatic monitoring (AMS) and automatic flight control system (AFCS), a short-haul radio navigation and landing system, an identification friend or foe transponder (IFF), an optical / infrared aiming sight and a ground collision warning system (GCWS).

Other avionics installed in the aircraft include distance measuring equipment (DME), dual very-high-frequency (VHF) navigation / communication and X-band colour weather radar in the nose.

It is also fitted with a traffic collision avoidance system (TCAS), a global positioning system (GPS), a cockpit voice recorder / flight data recorder (CVR/FDR), an instrument landing system (ILS) and a tactical aid for navigation (TACAN) system.

Cargo
Six crew and up to 138,000kg cargo can be carried on the cargo deck above the refuelling systems.

Aviadvigatel D-30 KP turbofan engines
The IL-78 is powered by four Aviadvigatel D-30 KP turbofan engines. Each engine can produce a maximum take-off thrust of 118kN. It is a two-shaft, low-bypass turbofan engine equipped with two spool compressor and mixed flow.

The D-30 KP turbofan engine is primarily used for short-haul airplanes for passenger transportation. The length and fan tip diameter of the engine are 3.98m and 1.05m respectively.

IL-78 performance
The IL-78 can fly at a maximum speed of 850km/h. The range and service ceiling of the aircraft are 7,300km and 12,000m respectively. The aircraft weighs around 72,000kg and the maximum take-off weight is 210,000kg.

The Ilyushin IL-78 air-to-air refuelling tanker aircraft is a four-engine tanker principally used for in-flight refuelling. 
The IL-78MKI is a tailor-made variant of IL-78M and is equipped with Israeli fuel transferring systems. 
The IL-78 was designed and developed on the basis of a similar predecessor, the IL-76 (pictured), and has the Nato reporting name Midas. 

The IL-78 Midas aircraft was developed as part of the tanker project in 1982 to enhance the transferable fuel load of the earlier version IL-76. .

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fatman17

*"THERE IS NO DESTINATION BEYOND MY REACH"*


THE STORY OF PAF&#8217;s AIR TRANSPORT COMMAND



Genesis 
PAF&#8217;s Air Transport Command made a humble beginning on 14th August, 1947 with one serviceable Dakota aircraft, two pilots, three navigators and three signallers stationed at Drigh Road (now Faisal Air Base). The diminutive strength was passed off as RPAF&#8217;s No. 6 Squadron. The Squadron had already existed for several years before independence as an RIAF unit. After Independence this tiny squadron was moved to Peshawar. To remedy the paucity of material and men, the RPAF drew up a three-phase programme.

In the first phase ending 31st March, 1948, No 6 Squadron received 7 more Dakotas. During the next twelve months its strength reached up to 20.

The Intrepid Valley Operations
The Squadron had gone into action almost immediately upon its inception. Its Dakotas were called upon for supply dropping in Azad Kashmir. Their missions entailed keeping the troops and villages that were cut off by snowbound roads supplied with the essentials of life. Flying fully loaded worn out Dakotas with an effective ceiling of not more than 3,000 metres, almost rubbing shoulders with the peaks ranging from 5,000 to 7,000 metres, the lone Air Transport Squadron with its solitary serviceable aircraft could accomplish these missions only by following the serpentine snow-white choreographic curves of the Upper Indus Valley. During November 1948, the Squadron operating from Risalpur and Peshawar, air dropped some 88,000 lbs of supplies. The hazards of these operations can be gauged from the fact that the Upper Indus Valley (the operational mountainous zone) is so narrow that a large aircraft like the Dakota could hardly turn around in it nor was there a patch of ground fit for an emergency landing. The weather in the valley has always been prone to rapid changes and in 1947-48, there was no forecasting facility to cover the area.

Baptism Under Fire
These Valley operations, besides natural hazards were imperiled by the presence of enemy fighter aircraft. The defenceless Dakota was at the mercy of the enemy air patrol.

Stung by the reverses suffered by its land forces, Indian Air Force increased its air patrols over the area. On 4th November, 1948 a Dakota piloted by Flying Officer Mukhtar Dogar was attacked by 2 IAF Tempests, when it was returning from a paradrop mission near Skardu. Indian fighters wanted to air arrest the Dakota and force it to land at Srinagar. Such an ignominious fate was not acceptable to the completely unarmed Dakota and its totally committed aircrew. Ignoring the warning shots, Flying Officer Dogar skilfully evaded the attackers, diving to the level of the valley and virtually scraping along the river&#8217;s surface, he steered the Dakota well out of the fighter&#8217;s reach. In their frustration, the Indian Tempests tried to shoot down the PAF Dakota and fatally wounded the air supply ejection crew Naik Mohammad Din of the army and knocked the co-pilot Flying Officer Alfred Jagjivan unconscious. For this act of gallantry, Flying Officer Dogar was awarded PAF&#8217;s first Sitara-e-Jurat, and the martyr Naik was posthumously decorated by the Army.

Life Goes On
The above incident resulted in the suspension of daylight air transport operations in the Northern Areas but the life line to our troops had to be maintained. Wing Commander (later Air Marshal) Asghar Khan and the Officer Commanding of No 6 Squadron immediately decided to explore the extremely hazardous prospects of night navigation and supply drops in that narrowing and winding valley. On the night of 17/18 November, 1948, the Commanding Officer himself piloted a proving flight with Asghar Khan also on board. Its success encouraged the continuation of such missions. The low intensity of night operations, however, could not hope to keep pace with the ever-increasing demand and a quick solution was sought. About that time, RPAF acquired a couple of Halifax Bombers. These were quickly pressed into service after being locally modified for supply drop operations.

By the end of 1948, air drops alone had involved four hundred and thirty-seven sorties to deliver 1,036,470 lbs of critical supplies at Bunji, Astor, Burzi, Gilgit, Chilas and Skardu. With their pioneering exploits, the transport crew set very exacting standards of daring and enterprise in the very first year of the fledgling Air Force&#8217;s life. In the decades to come, their example would inspire their successors to even greater heights of courage and initiative.

Northern Area supply runs continues till today as the Air Transports wing of PAF forms the vital link with this precipitous but vitally precious terrain and with its valiantly defending Armed Forces. The improved road conditions have, however, reduced the frequency of the sorties. It was not till 22nd February, 1949 that the first landing by a PAF Dakota took place at Gilgit. The newly appointed C-in-C of RPAF, Air Vice Marshal RLR Atcherley inaugurated the airfield.

A Second Squadron is Formed
In March, 1950, No 12, the second transport squadron, was formed at Mauripur. Initially, it was equipped with 8 Halifax&#8217;s and was at first a Heavy Bomber Squadron. In September, 1953 the unit was converted into a Composite Squadron and assigned a variety of tasks including VIP and Air Headquarters Communication flight comprising Viking and Dakota aircraft. In 1954 the squadron received 2 new Bristol Freighters while in 1957 SA-16 Albatross maritime aircraft were acquired. In July, 1960, the Squadron was moved to Chaklala, where it was equipped with a Fokker F-27. In February, 1977, it received a DA-20 Falcon while in 1986 a Boeing 707 was added to its inventory for VIP flights.



Bristol Freighters
Bristol Freighters joined the PAF Air Transport fleet in October, 1948. While the Dakotas were retired from PAF in 1955 the robust and sturdy Bristol Freighters saw fifties, and their extensive service in multiple roles over this vastly extended period was a memorable experience for the PAF transport command. Besides their primary role, Freighters were also used, along the years, to perform dramatically different types of tasks. In 1955, while the RPAF was still vainly casting about for a suitable light bomber, a few Freighters were modified at Drigh Road to carry a 4,000 lb. &#8216;Block Buster&#8217; bomb under each wing. In 1950, 1954 and 1955 the Freighters used to air drop food supplies to victims of flood disasters.

In May, 1961, swarms after swarms of locusts migrated to Balochistan. The Plant Protection Department and the Army were unable to fight the menace with ground transport-mounted spray equipment. When the locust invasion reached crisis proportions the PAF was asked to step in. Some Freighters were locally modified to carry an indigenously designed aerial spray system. This comprised an old fuel tank from a MK-21 Freighter installed inside the cargo compartment, an electrically driven fluid pump, a few metres of plumbing and some spray nozzles. Over the next several months, the modified Freighters conducted extensive aerial spray operations over vast areas of Balochistan, Sindh and Punjab, operating from many disused airfield such as Jiwani, Nawabshah, Sukkur, Jacobabad and Multan.

Transport Conversion Squadron
Transport Conversion Squadron was designated as No 3 Squadron on 1st July, 1957 and established at Lahore to train transport aircrew. It was equipped with Bristol Freighters. On 20th October, 1959 this Squadron was shifted to Chaklala. Four years later it was number plated. The unit was revived in 1974, equipped with C-130 aircraft and was designated as Transport Conversion School. It was charged with the conversion and training of transport pilots, navigators, flight engineers and load masters, as well as with the evaluation and standardization of all categories of PAF aircrew. The school is functioning till todate and takes pride in training the entire transport aircrew element of the PAF, and a number of crew from friendly countries as well as the Pakistan Navy.

The Advent of C-130 Hercules Aircraft
In March 1963, the PAF received the first 4 C-130B Hercules aircraft from USA under the mutual aid programme, which enabled the PAF to start phasing out the Freighters. The C-130s were far superior to the older aircraft in their performance; their higher speed, all weather avionics and greater load carrying capacity far outstripped the Freighter&#8217;s WW II specifications. These greater capabilities were soon exploited to their limits by putting C-130s into the Valley operations on an extensive scale. Air drops by these large aircraft in narrow and difficult drop zones like Minimarg, Gultari, Kel and Passu became a regular feature of the Northern Area Operations.



Rann of Kutch 
The real value of the C-130s was proved in 1965, when in the month of April Indian forces tried to occupy Rann of Kutch. C-130s were called to provide logistic support to the ground troops. Aerial reconnaissance was carried out to execute landings on the sunbaked clay surface near Biar Bet but before the mission could be carried out, the Indian ground troops had withdrawn

Author:

Columnist Group Capt SULTAN M HALI 


Source: Defence Journal

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

Portugal, August 24, 2013
R11-003 (cn 0063466998) Preflight checks before departure to Dover, USA. why ???????? whats transport ?

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## fatman17

*Quote of the Day*

&#8220;It was 1977 and we were on an old DC8 Air Ceylon coming in to Colombo, Ceylon from Bangkok. The landing approach was pretty bumpy, but the biggest bump was saved for when we hit the tarmac - a massive shudder and shake - at least I hoped it was the runway.. We were soon however airborne again and climbing steeply when a voice with a heavy Indian accent came over the PA as follows: I am sorry about the landing ladies and gentlemen, the pilot will now take over.&#8221; 
-- Tim Stuart



Imran Khan said:


> Portugal, August 24, 2013
> R11-003 (cn 0063466998) Preflight checks before departure to Dover, USA. why ???????? whats transport ?



something is always coming or going? - helos, spare-parts, apc's etc

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## razgriz19

can someone list all the VIP aircraft of PAF, preferably with the pictures.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1

razgriz19 said:


> can someone list all the VIP aircraft of PAF, preferably with the pictures.



chek the link 
History of PIA - Forum :: View topic - Serial Number 'J-757' Painted on PAF VIP Airbus A310-300

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khanboy007

fatman17 said:


> Y-8 has to be evaluated but it is not a mature platform as yet.
> further C-130's can be purchased if the govt. has the finances.
> *IL-78's are another option but with updated engines and a glass cockpit.*
> Y-20 is a long way off.



why dont we try to grab *newer ilyushins*, i heard about the *il-476*, it looks the same from outside, but has digital cockpit,some other stuff too and ofc its *NEW*  

Worth the weight! New transport plane takes to sky (VIDEO, PHOTOS) â&#8364;&#8221; RT News

Presenting Ilyushin Il-476 | English Russia






if we go for the ilyushin, i dont think a new level of training pilots from scratch would be required

but going for y-20 will be more sensible, in terms of politics, work and trust if u know what i mean

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

khanboy007 said:


> why dont we try to grab *newer ilyushins*, i heard about the *il-476*, it looks the same from outside, but has digital cockpit,some other stuff too and ofc its *NEW*
> 
> Worth the weight! New transport plane takes to sky (VIDEO, PHOTOS) â&#8364;&#8221; RT News
> 
> Presenting Ilyushin Il-476 | English Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if we go for the ilyushin, i dont think a new level of training pilots from scratch would be required
> 
> but going for y-20 will be more sensible, in terms of politics, work and trust if u know what i mean



sir everything comes with strings attached - some are just overt, others covert - no free lunches.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Imran520

Nice Sharing. PAF is the best for Pakistan


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

*in sandstorm*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jupiter2007

Aircraft Service entry Role Quantity
Airbus A310 (A310-300 2009 VIP transport 1
Boeing 707 (707-320) 1986 Heavy-lift transport 2
Cessna Citation V VIP transport 1
Gulfstream IV 2004 commander/executive transport roles 4
Embraer Phenom (Phenom 100) 2009 VIP transport 4
Ilyushin Il-78 (Il-78MK) 2009 MRTT 4
Antonov An-26 Medium-lift transport 1
Beech C-12 Huron Utility aircraft, training 1
Lockheed C-130 Hercules 1960 Tactical (theatre) transport 18
Lockheed C-130B 1960s 5
Lockheed C-130E 5
Lockheed C-130E (ex-Australian) 2005 2
C-130 H 6
CASA CN-235 2004 Medium-lift tactical transport 4
Harbin Y-12 (Y-211) 1980s Utility 2
Saab 2000 2008 VIP transport, training 1






If economic conditioned improved, Pakistan does have options on the military transport planes.

1) Surplus Transport planes from USA/Europe

2) Spain& Indonesia: EADS CASA N-235 ($28 million each)/*C-295* ($36 million each)







3)*Brazil: Embraer KC-390* [Medium-sized transport aircraft] (US$50 million each)
Embraer KC-390 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia









*4) Chinese Shaanxi Y-9*


----------



## nomi007

The UAE’s military airlift inventory includes *four* H-model Hercules and *four* commercial-standard L-100s, which Flightglobal’s Ascend Online Fleets database records as having entered use between 1976 and 1985
and uae is going to replace them in next 5yrs
it option for paf to get them


----------



## nomi007

During testing in Ukraine


----------



## Imran Khan

nomi007 said:


> The UAE’s military airlift inventory includes *four* H-model Hercules and *four* commercial-standard L-100s, which Flightglobal’s Ascend Online Fleets database records as having entered use between 1976 and 1985
> and uae is going to replace them in next 5yrs
> it option for paf to get them


 are we grave yard sirjee ? jo bhi kuch kabaar phenky hum utha laay paint ker ke use kery ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Liquidmetal

Imran Khan said:


> are we grave yard sirjee ? jo bhi kuch kabaar phenky hum utha laay paint ker ke use kery ?


No we are not a graveyard we are just broke.


----------



## nomi007

Imran Khan said:


> are we grave yard sirjee ? jo bhi kuch kabaar phenky hum utha laay paint ker ke use kery ?


pehle jo kuch hai woh to showroom se lia hai kia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007




----------



## trident2010

Imran Khan said:


> Portugal, August 24, 2013
> R11-003 (cn 0063466998) Preflight checks before departure to Dover, USA. why ???????? whats transport ?



Bringing it to USA for getting it checked for the bugs which might be installed by Russia? Also a possibility that USA will install some of the monitoring instruments to track its movement in the future.


----------



## Kompromat

trident2010 said:


> Bringing it to USA for getting it checked for the bugs which might be installed by Russia? Also a possibility that USA will install some of the monitoring instruments to track its movement in the future.



We didn't buy them from Russia


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Aeronaut said:


> We didn't buy them from Russia


 
Ukraine is still under the Russian _umbrella........._


----------



## Kompromat

Capt.Popeye said:


> Ukraine is still under the Russian _umbrella........._




They don't have much to ask from a handful of Pakistani tankers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## trident2010

Since PAF is extensively using US machines, I won't be surprised if they do a thorough check to a foreign machines before let PAF use them with US made weapons.
May be one of the clauses for the weapons which is supplied by the US as an aid?


----------



## Munir

trident2010 said:


> Bringing it to USA for getting it checked for the bugs which might be installed by Russia? Also a possibility that USA will install some of the monitoring instruments to track its movement in the future.



For spare parts... We have US radars, fighters etc etc...


----------



## trident2010

Munir said:


> For spare parts... We have US radars, fighters etc etc...



Yes that is also one possibility.


----------



## Saleem

hassan1 said:


> chek the link
> History of PIA - Forum :: View topic - Serial Number 'J-757' Painted on PAF VIP Airbus A310-300


given their performance all these "vip's" [vile, inhuman predators] should be put back to front on donkeys with their hands tied behind their backs and receive a hundred lashes at each end of the journey...


----------



## Imran Khan

trident2010 said:


> Yes that is also one possibility.



your post look kiddish to me we are living in 2013 today and countries don't play cheap shots now like past man. these our IL-78s show up every corner of world not only these but c-130s p3cs and many more reguler fly to east west . just go to jetphotos or airliners.net and search them you will never rise such kiddish questions again .


----------



## trident2010

Imran Khan said:


> your post look kiddish to me we are living in 2013 today and countries don't play cheap shots now like past man. these our IL-78s show up every corner of world not only these but c-130s p3cs and many more reguler fly to east west . just go to jetphotos or airliners.net and search them you will never rise such kiddish questions again .



Ofcourse planes are flying around the world. We were discussing about this particular plane. All speculations though


----------



## Imran Khan

trident2010 said:


> Ofcourse planes are flying around the world. We were discussing about this particular plane. All speculations though


this particulate plane visited dozens of times USA and will be again . nothing new we have thousands or weapons made in USA and this plane carry parts new equipment missiles and logistics and will continue . keep your bus and bogus stories with you bro .

this bird some notable flights to USA were . not all but few which noticed
  
April 21, 2011
June 6, 2011
June 14, 2011
March 14, 2011
May 8, 2011
March 1, 2012
April 5, 2012
May 6, 2012
May 7, 2012  
May 31, 2013
August 24, 2013

remember its 003 it mean his two elder brothers fly more then it to USA as they are older and delivered to pakistan before then this baby. now can we please move on ?


----------



## trident2010

Yes move on !!


----------



## Donatello

trident2010 said:


> Bringing it to USA for getting it checked for the bugs which might be installed by Russia? *Also a possibility that USA will install some of the monitoring instruments to track its movement in the future.*




Ladies and Gentlemen, here we have another Indian troll, concerned about US tracking the Pakistani assets.

Nice. Well done sir.

(Actually no, not well done. Your post is as stupid and ignorant as it could be.)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

Imran Khan said:


> this particulate plane visited dozens of times USA and will be again . nothing new we have thousands or weapons made in USA and this plane carry parts new equipment missiles and logistics and will continue . keep your bus and bogus stories with you bro .
> 
> this bird some notable flights to USA were . not all but few which noticed
> 
> April 21, 2011
> June 6, 2011
> June 14, 2011
> March 14, 2011
> May 8, 2011
> March 1, 2012
> April 5, 2012
> May 6, 2012
> May 7, 2012
> May 31, 2013
> August 24, 2013
> 
> remember its 003 it mean his two elder brothers fly more then it to USA as they are older and delivered to pakistan before then this baby. now can we please move on ?


imran SAB sir ap to hostess se be ziada tez ho


----------



## trident2010

Donatello said:


> we have another Indian troll, concerned about US tracking the Pakistani assets.



Troll or no troll it is true and we all know that. Anyways as said earlier move on.


----------



## bc040400065

trident2010 said:


> Since PAF is extensively using US machines, I won't be surprised if they do a thorough check to a foreign machines before let PAF use them with US made weapons.
> May be one of the clauses for the weapons which is supplied by the US as an aid?


We have got Nothing In Aid from the US for Our Airforce. those blk52 were paid by pakistan. it was FMS not FMF.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

The cockpit of the CN235

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007

Air Force: More: Pakistan - Air Force
Aircraft: More: Ilyushin IL-78MP Photos
Registration: R09-001 (cn 0073478346)
Location: More: Istanbul - Ataturk (Yesilkoy) (IST / LTBA) - Turkey
Photo Date: December 6, 2013
Photographer: More: Thomas Urbild


Photo added to database on: December 13, 2013


----------



## nomi007

CN-235 aircraft


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Dnt know if posted before or not...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## acetophenol



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


>



Posted before by me in the Refuellin thread but thanks...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Posted before by me in the Refuellin thread but thanks...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> MaxDefense: More C-130 Hercules transport planes for the PAF staring 2014



PAF= Philly airforce...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## acetophenol



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

acetophenol said:


> MaxDefense: More C-130 Hercules transport planes for the PAF staring 2014





MAMOOO they said PAF Philippines air force


----------



## acetophenol

Imran Khan said:


> MAMOOO they said PAF Philippines air force


somehow I misunderstood it as Pakistan acquiring retired Philipines c-130s............
I just had a box full of bourbon chocolate biscuit,so I am high


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## acetophenol



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> somehow I misunderstood it as Pakistan acquiring retired Philipines c-130s............
> I just had a box full of bourbon chocolate biscuit,so I am high
> 
> I bet this one's a gem:






acetophenol said:


>






*Sir jee already posted by me.. these are our old huskies..*


----------



## acetophenol

> The Kamman HH-43 Huskie was a helicopter used by the United States Air Force, the United States Navy and the United states Marine Corps in the 1950s through 1970s. It was primarily used for aircraft fire fighting and rescue. It was originally designated as the HTK and HUK by the U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huskie had a crew of four: two pilots and two rescue specialists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Huskie had an unusual inter-meshing contra-rotating twin-rotor arrangement with control affected by servo-flaps. The first prototype flew in 1947 and was adopted by the U.S. Navy with a piston-engine. It was later adopted by the Air Force in a turboshaft HH-43B and F versions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10 Pakistan Air Force HH-43s were employed for Fire Fighting, Search and Rescue (SAR) duties at air bases, and occasionally as a VIP transport.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Sir jee already posted by me.. these are our old huskies..*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## acetophenol

@DESERT FIGHTER :Sir jee,please tell if already posted.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER :Sir jee,please tell if already posted.



Yup...... sorry.. 

P.S: All these belonged to the PN.. not PAF..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yup...... sorry..
> 
> P.S: All these belonged to the PN.. not PAF..
> 
> View attachment 12536


not again







C-130 overhaul @kamra

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER :Sir jee,please tell if already posted.




In PAF AWACS&EW thread..


----------



## acetophenol

Fuselage of JF-17 being taken out from An-124 aircraft - 2nd Mar, 2007.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> In PAF AWACS&EW thread..



I think I better leave this thread for you guys................


----------



## kurup

acetophenol said:


>



Can somebody say what is the that pod on the aircraft just aft of the PAF roundel ??


----------



## Jango

kurup said:


> Can somebody say what is the that pod on the aircraft just aft of the PAF roundel ??


The third refuelling hose

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

acetophenol said:


>


not c-130 its il-78madas


----------



## hassan1

cn-235

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007




----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Luftwaffe

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 17136


 
nomi, Photograph is focused on Mirages.


----------



## fatman17

the livery on the tailfin of the C-130 won 1st prize at the royal tattoo airshow some years back.


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

ZamsaHassan said:


> C-130 H, is very impressive Air craft. Use any condition any weather .C-130 Air craft. Its service in PAF is long history *I dont heard that C-130s role in 1965 war I think C-130 was not a part of PAF in late 1965.any how* . I like C-130 J, and C-17 to become service in Pakistan Air Force .
> 
> the VIP role Was not important . Every VIP need high grade protocol. and Yes one more thing Fokker f-27 I wish to retired them from service .


 
it was and was used as a 'bomber'


----------



## Aamir Hussain

C130 was used as a bomber in 1965 war around Kashmir. It heavy payload of bombs prompted the Indians of accusing US of providing US Air Force heavy bombers and helping Pakistan in bombing Indian targets!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

*C-130 Hercules News*
*Pakistani C-130E performs emergency landing at Multan Airport*
March 9, 2014 (by Asif Shamim) - *A Pakistani Air Force C-130E believed to be #4177 made an emergency landing at Multan Airport after a tire burst on March 7, 2014 according to Pakistani news service.*




 
Details are limited, but it would seem the aircraft landed safely and limited damage reported. The airport was closed while the C-130 is removed. Flights to the airport were diverted while the incident was handled.

The C-130 Hercules has been the PAF's primary tactical transport aircraft since its induction in the early 1960s. Currently around 5 C-130B and 11 C-130E models are in service, upgraded with Allison T56-A-15 turboprops and extended fatigue lives by Lockheed-Georgia Company.

*Related articles:*

C-130 Hercules news archive

*Forum discussion:*

Start a discussion about this article in the C-130.net forum.

*Tags*

C-130E
Pakistan Air Force

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17

*C-130 Accidents & Mishaps for the Pakistani Air Force.*



Found 10 aircraft, displaying 1-10 [Sorted by Date]
Date Status Local S/N Aircraft AF/Unit Version Info Details
*18 Aug 1965 [w/o] 12648 61-2648 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B
Ran off runway on during landing. This was the first PAF C-130 loss.
*01 Feb 1979 [w/o] 23488 62-3488 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B 
Jumped chocks during night engine test run and crashed into C-130B 65-10951.
*04 Mar 1970 [w/o] 3699 62-3489 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B
Details unknown.
*08 Jul 1969 [w/o] 23490 62-3490 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B
Burned out during refuelling at Islamabad, Pakistan.
*10 Sep 1998 [w/o] AQ-ACV 62-3491 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B 
Ground collision with C-130B 62-4143 after brake failure due to wheel well fire at Rawalpindi AB, Pakistan.
*17 Aug 1988 [w/o] 23494 62-3494 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B 
Reportedly crashed and caught fire shortly after take-off from Bahawalpur, Pakistan.
*15 Jul 1966 [w/o] 24142 62-4142 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B 
Crashed into mountain in Pakistan
*10 Sep 1998 [w/o] 24143 62-4143 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B 
Collided on the ground by C-130B 62-4391 and burned at Rawalpindi AB, Pakistan.
*30 Apr 1968 [w/o] 64145 PAF 6 Sqn* L100 
Wing failed in turbulence near Chaklala, Pakistan causing the aircraft to crash.
*01 Feb 1979 [w/o] 10687 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130E 
Hit by PAF C-130B 62-3488 (c/n 3698) when it jumped chocks during engine test run at night.


----------



## Jango

Something is amiss...

How could a tyre burst while in mid-air?


----------



## fatman17

*
Pakistan – C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program
*
WASHINGTON, Mar 11, 2014 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a
possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for a C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $100 million.

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of C-130B/E avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft.

Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation,
personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support
services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $100 million


This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a Major Non-NATO ally which has been, and continues to be, an important force for regional stability and U.S. national security goals in the region.

The proposed sale will facilitate the continued operation of the Pakistan’s Air Force C-130 fleet (five C-130B and eleven C-130E models) for counter-insurgency/counter-terrorism flights; regional humanitarian operations; troop transport; and Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions within Pakistan and in the region. The fleet is facing airworthiness and obsolescence issues, and will require upgrades and repairs for continued operation and effectiveness. The proposed modernization of the C-130 fleet should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The principal contractor is unknown at this time and will be determined through a competitive bid process.
There are no known offset agreements in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Pakistan.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

DSCA

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> Ratings:
> +7 / 15,653 / -1
> Pakistan
> Pakistan
> New
> Pakistan – C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program
> WASHINGTON, Mar 11, 2014 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a
> possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for a C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $100 million.
> The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of C-130B/E avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft.
> Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation,
> personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support
> services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $100 million


why not few more ex-usaf ?


----------



## fatman17

Imran Khan said:


> why not few more ex-usaf ?


 
at the moment 16 a/c are more than the PAF can handle. plus 3 CN-235's

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Local S/N AF/Unit Aircraft Name Marked Date Details
*53-396



53-3396 26 Aug 1955*



*First C-130 PrototypeFirst C-130 prototype. Constructed at Burbank California. First flight was on August 23, 1954. *


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> at the moment 16 a/c are more than the PAF can handle. plus 3 CN-235's


janab i think at least 20 are enough


----------



## nomi007

The Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) has informed the United States Congress about request to upgrade the Pakistan Air Force's C-130 Hercules turboprop military transport aircraft under a deal worth $100 million
Under this proposed deal C-130 B/E Hercules of the Pakistan Air Force will receives avionics, engine management and mechanical upgrades as well as cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six of the C-130 Hercules turboprop military transport aircraft.

Pakistan Air Force's C-130 aircrafts are being used to air-lift the essential food supplies for the people stuck in the drought stricken areas of Tharparker.

Pakistan To Upgrade Its C-130 Hercules Military Transport Aircraft | Pakistan Military Review


----------



## krash

fatman17 said:


> *17 Aug 1988 [w/o] 23494 62-3494 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B
> Reportedly crashed and caught fire shortly after take-off from Bahawalpur, Pakistan.



Zia-ul-haq died in this.



> *10 Sep 1998 [w/o] AQ-ACV 62-3491 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B
> Ground collision with C-130B 62-4143 after brake failure due to wheel well fire at Rawalpindi AB, Pakistan.
> 
> *10 Sep 1998 [w/o] 24143 62-4143 PAF 6 Sqn* C-130B
> Collided on the ground by C-130B 62-4391 and burned at Rawalpindi AB, Pakistan.



Lost a family friend in this, they identified him from his watch, I think. I was little but still remember when this happened.



fatman17 said:


> at the moment 16 a/c are more than the PAF can handle. plus 3 CN-235's



Didn't we get 4 CN-235's? Did something happen to the fourth? Also, heard that we might be ordering more, what happened with that?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

WASHINGTON --- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for a C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $100 million.

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of C-130B/E avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft. Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $100 million.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a Major Non-NATO ally which has been, and continues to be, an important force for regional stability and U.S. national security goals in the region.

The proposed sale will facilitate the continued operation of the Pakistan’s Air Force C-130 fleet (five C-130B and eleven C-130E models) for counter-insurgency/counter-terrorism flights; regional humanitarian operations; troop transport; and Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions within Pakistan and in the region. The fleet is facing airworthiness and obsolescence issues, and will require upgrades and repairs for continued operation and effectiveness. The proposed modernization of the C-130 fleet should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The principal contractor is unknown at this time and will be determined through a competitive bid process.

There are no known offset agreements in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Pakistan.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

-ends-
i


----------



## fatman17

krash said:


> Zia-ul-haq died in this.
> 
> 
> 
> Lost a family friend in this, they identified him from his watch, I think. I was little but still remember when this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't we get 4 CN-235's? Did something happen to the fourth? Also, heard that we might be ordering more, what happened with that?


 my bad - 3 transport and 1 VVIP config.



nomi007 said:


> WASHINGTON --- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for a C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $100 million.
> 
> The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of C-130B/E avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft. Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $100 million.
> 
> This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a Major Non-NATO ally which has been, and continues to be, an important force for regional stability and U.S. national security goals in the region.
> 
> The proposed sale will facilitate the continued operation of the Pakistan’s Air Force C-130 fleet (five C-130B and eleven C-130E models) for counter-insurgency/counter-terrorism flights; regional humanitarian operations; troop transport; and Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions within Pakistan and in the region. The fleet is facing airworthiness and obsolescence issues, and will require upgrades and repairs for continued operation and effectiveness. The proposed modernization of the C-130 fleet should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.
> 
> The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.
> 
> The principal contractor is unknown at this time and will be determined through a competitive bid process.
> 
> There are no known offset agreements in connection with this potential sale.
> 
> Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Pakistan.
> 
> There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
> 
> This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.
> 
> -ends-
> i


 
posted bhai already

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nishan_101

nomi007 said:


> WASHINGTON --- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for a C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $100 million.
> 
> The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of C-130B/E avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft. Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $100 million.
> 
> This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a Major Non-NATO ally which has been, and continues to be, an important force for regional stability and U.S. national security goals in the region.
> 
> The proposed sale will facilitate the continued operation of the Pakistan’s Air Force C-130 fleet (five C-130B and eleven C-130E models) for counter-insurgency/counter-terrorism flights; regional humanitarian operations; troop transport; and Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions within Pakistan and in the region. The fleet is facing airworthiness and obsolescence issues, and will require upgrades and repairs for continued operation and effectiveness. The proposed modernization of the C-130 fleet should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.
> 
> The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.
> 
> The principal contractor is unknown at this time and will be determined through a competitive bid process.
> 
> There are no known offset agreements in connection with this potential sale.
> 
> Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Pakistan.
> 
> There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
> 
> This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.
> 
> -ends-
> i



Why not 21-25 Y-9 from China along with 11-12 CN-295 Type planes if China is developing it as it would far cheaper to procure and to maintain as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

Nishan_101 said:


> Why not 21-25 Y-9 from China along with 11-12 CN-295 Type planes if China is developing it as it would far cheaper to procure and to maintain as well.


paise ap dain ge

posted bhai already[/quote]
it is official request letter


----------



## Nishan_101

nomi007 said:


> paise ap dain ge
> 
> posted bhai already


it is official request letter[/quote]

They have......


----------



## Donatello

100 million USD is not a small amount for upgrades. I guess US-Pakistan relations are back on track?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nishan_101

Donatello said:


> 100 million USD is not a small amount for upgrades. I guess US-Pakistan relations are back on track?



Then why not buy KSA, UAE, Jordan and even Oman C-130s as well. And upgrade all of them to make a fleet of 41-50 of these planes.
Some for Transport, EW and Gunship ones.


----------



## syedali73

Nishan_101 said:


> Then why not buy KSA, UAE, Jordan and even Oman C-130s as well. And upgrade all of them to make a fleet of 41-50 of these planes.
> Some for Transport, EW and Gunship ones.


Why a fleet of 41-50? Do we need these many C-130s?


----------



## Nishan_101

For different roles mentioned above....


----------



## fatman17

Donatello said:


> 100 million USD is not a small amount for upgrades. I guess US-Pakistan relations are back on track?


 
slowly......


----------



## Inception-06

fatman17 said:


> my bad - 3 transport and 1 VVIP config.
> 
> 
> 
> posted bhai already



Why we need so many VIP Planes ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Ulla said:


> Why we need so many VIP Planes ?


 
because we are a VVIP nation.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## nomi007

y-9 why pakistan is not joining this project


----------



## fatman17

*Upgrades Slated for Pakistani Hercules Aircraft*
*
Mar. 17, 2014 - 01:06PM | By USMAN ANSARI | *



*Pakistani soldiers load relief supplies, bound for the Swat district and Buner, onto a Pakistani Air Force C-130 aircraft. (Agence France-Presse)*

*ISLAMABAD* — An upgrade package for Pakistan’s aging C-130 Hercules transport aircraft fleet has been welcomed, with analysts saying it will allow the venerable transports to function until eventual replacement.
The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency has notified Congress of a proposed US $100 million Foreign Military Sales upgrade package for Pakistan’s Hercules transport planes. The notification states Pakistan has requested “avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft. Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support.”

In the face of “airworthiness and obsolescence issues,” the notification states the upgrade package “should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.”

The fleet is of considerable age, with five of the aircraft C-130B models and 11 C-130Es. Though the latter are “new” in terms of service with Pakistan, some are ex-Australian Vietnam War vintage that were acquired in 2005.

Except for the question of age, the fleet is suitable for requirements, says former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley..

“The fixed-wing transport fleet is adequate for the requirements placed upon it and I do not think that there will be any expansion of its role,” he said.

Adding, “Pakistan isn’t going to become involved in any long-distance military commitment. Upgrade and eventual one-for-one replacement are all that’s required.”

Analyst and former air commodore Kaiser Tufail says that process should start now.

“The PAF would do well to start looking for a C-130 replacement, starting with the oldest ones, which have outlived their utility,” he said.

The C-130s are the mainstay of the Air Force’s transport fleet, and are supplemented by four smaller Indonesian-built IPTN CN-235s, and four second-hand Il-78MP Midas multirole tanker/transports from Ukraine.
However, Tufail says that even if more of these other two types are acquired they are not capable of picking up the strain should the C-130s not be replaced.

“The CN-235 is not the right aircraft as it was meant to haul minimal loads like aircraft engines, etc., on shorter routes. It does not have the capacity to rapidly move a load of equipment for rapid deployment of a detachment of fighters, a job which two to three C-130 sorties can easily fulfill,” Tufail says.

Though the Il-78s can carry more than the C-130s, Tufail says, the plane “is an outdated, lumbering aircraft. Even an upgraded engine and a glass cockpit would not help compare to the newer C-130J models.”

There has been speculation for some time the Air Force hopes to acquire more of these heavy-lift types, though, and Tufail says an upgraded variant could be suitable, but not more of the same type currently in service.

What alternatives there are is debatable, but Tufail said even with a possible Chinese option there is the ever-resent question of finances.

“Chinese options could be explored, but in that case it might have to do more with offerings of a soft loan or other sweeteners than the aircraft capabilities, in its entirety,” he said.

*Email: uansari@defensenews.com.*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007

it is better to retired c-130b model aircrafts with chinese Y-9 or purchase ex-usaf c-130H models


----------



## khanboy007

@fatman17

so this means that we are expected to purchase *newer *carrier/transport aircraft's in the following 10-15 years ????

as the report mentions *In the face of “airworthiness and obsolescence issues,” the notification states the upgrade package “should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.”*

so we are looking to place an order in like the next 6-8 years ???* *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

nomi007 said:


> it is better to retired c-130b model aircrafts with chinese Y-9 or purchase ex-usaf c-130H models



Retiring hercs is not an option as of now, these rugged gliders are here to stay for a while as they have plenty of life left.

If bought, y-9 would compliment hercs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

Dazzler said:


> Retiring hercs is not an option as of now, these rugged gliders are here to stay for a while as they have plenty of life left.
> 
> If bought, y-9 would compliment hercs.


----------



## Gryphon

*Upgrades Slated for Pakistani Hercules Aircraft*

March 17, 2014 | By _Usman Ansari





Pakistani soldiers load relief supplies, bound for the Swat district and Buner, onto a Pakistani Air Force C-130 aircraft. (Agence France-Presse)
_
*ISLAMABAD* — An upgrade package for Pakistan’s aging C-130 Hercules transport aircraft fleet has been welcomed, with analysts saying it will allow the venerable transports to function until eventual replacement.

The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency has notified Congress of a proposed US $100 million Foreign Military Sales upgrade package for Pakistan’s Hercules transport planes. The notification states Pakistan has requested “avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft. Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support.”

In the face of “airworthiness and obsolescence issues,” the notification states the upgrade package “should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.”

The fleet is of considerable age, with five of the aircraft C-130B models and 11 C-130Es. Though the latter are “new” in terms of service with Pakistan, some are ex-Australian Vietnam War vintage that were acquired in 2005.

Except for the question of age, the fleet is suitable for requirements, says former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley..

“The fixed-wing transport fleet is adequate for the requirements placed upon it and I do not think that there will be any expansion of its role,” he said.

Adding, “Pakistan isn’t going to become involved in any long-distance military commitment. Upgrade and eventual one-for-one replacement are all that’s required.”

Analyst and former air commodore Kaiser Tufail says that process should start now.

“The PAF would do well to start looking for a C-130 replacement, starting with the oldest ones, which have outlived their utility,” he said.

The C-130s are the mainstay of the Air Force’s transport fleet, and are supplemented by four smaller Indonesian-built IPTN CN-235s, and four second-hand Il-78MP Midas multirole tanker/transports from Ukraine.

However, Tufail says that even if more of these other two types are acquired they are not capable of picking up the strain should the C-130s not be replaced.

“The CN-235 is not the right aircraft as it was meant to haul minimal loads like aircraft engines, etc., on shorter routes. It does not have the capacity to rapidly move a load of equipment for rapid deployment of a detachment of fighters, a job which two to three C-130 sorties can easily fulfill,” Tufail says.

Though the Il-78s can carry more than the C-130s, Tufail says, the plane “is an outdated, lumbering aircraft. Even an upgraded engine and a glass cockpit would not help compare to the newer C-130J models.”

There has been speculation for some time the Air Force hopes to acquire more of these heavy-lift types, though, and Tufail says an upgraded variant could be suitable, but not more of the same type currently in service.

What alternatives there are is debatable, but Tufail said even with a possible Chinese option there is the ever-resent question of finances.

“Chinese options could be explored, but in that case it might have to do more with offerings of a soft loan or other sweeteners than the aircraft capabilities, in its entirety,” he said.

Upgrades Slated for Pakistani Hercules Aircraft | Defense News | defensenews.com


----------



## Luftwaffe

I said it before these aircraft overhaul/upgrades will last 15 years at the most and than replacement would be required and what better replacement would be C-130J/better variants. Hopefully Pakistan economy would definitely be in shape to fund programs we should be hopeful. C-130 is an excellent transport platform.

Y-20 can carry twice more tonnage/load what I and many would like to see it in next 15 years order of 4-5 Y-20s and 8-10 C-130J/variants.

Hope no crisis is created in coming years as from the interview/article that IL-78 is already considered vintage even after its possible engine upgrades/glass cockpit wonderwhy...think 15 years is sufficient Y-20 and C-130J is the only good choices side by side.



nomi007 said:


> View attachment 21550


 
These parked ones are too old if the idea is to keep PAF Herc E/H for next 15 years a the most I think C-130J would naturally come to replace these old C-130s because again I have to repeat we have 50 years of experience and infrastructure and some overhaul experience we won't require Y-9s but we would need to replace IL-78 and add more so Y-20 would definitely make sense that can carry twice.


----------



## fatman17

khanboy007 said:


> @fatman17
> 
> so this means that we are expected to purchase *newer *carrier/transport aircraft's in the following 10-15 years ????
> 
> as the report mentions *In the face of “airworthiness and obsolescence issues,” the notification states the upgrade package “should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.”*
> 
> so we are looking to place an order in like the next 6-8 years ???* *


 
replacement of transport a/c is an expensive affair. if PAF opts for C130J then it can only happen under a combined FMS grant-aid & country funds. a new Herc costs in the USD 100m range or above. maybe in 5 years time the chinese platforms would have matured for the PAF to evaluate. the CN- spanish/indo models could be another option but these are mostly light transport. the PAF needs a all-weather workhorse like the Herc.



Luftwaffe said:


> I said it before these aircraft overhaul/upgrades will last 15 years at the most and than replacement would be required and what better replacement would be C-130J/better variants. Hopefully Pakistan economy would definitely be in shape to fund programs we should be hopeful. C-130 is an excellent transport platform.
> 
> Y-20 can carry twice more tonnage/load what I and many would like to see it in next 15 years order of 4-5 Y-20s and 8-10 C-130J/variants.
> 
> Hope no crisis is created in coming years as from the interview/article that IL-78 is already considered vintage even after its possible engine upgrades/glass cockpit wonderwhy...think 15 years is sufficient Y-20 and C-130J is the only good choices side by side.
> 
> 
> 
> These parked ones are too old if the idea is to keep PAF Herc E/H for next 15 years a the most I think C-130J would naturally come to replace these old C-130s because again I have to repeat we have 50 years of experience and infrastructure and some overhaul experience we won't require Y-9s but we would need to replace IL-78 and add more so Y-20 would definitely make sense that can carry twice.


 
these slated upgrades would take all PAF C130's to H-standard.


----------



## Donatello

fatman17 said:


> replacement of transport a/c is an expensive affair. if PAF opts for C130J then it can only happen under a combined FMS grant-aid & country funds. a new Herc costs in the USD 100m range or above. maybe in 5 years time the chinese platforms would have matured for the PAF to evaluate. the CN- spanish/indo models could be another option but these are mostly light transport. the PAF needs a all-weather workhorse like the Herc.
> 
> 
> 
> these slated upgrades would take all PAF C130's to H-standard.



Wasn't the upgrade already signed circa 2004/2005? because that's when Pakistan send a major arms list to the USA, including those Artillery, M113s, Cobra upgrades, F-16s and P3 Orions.

So why did it take so long to get the upgrades to H version for the Hercs?


----------



## Luftwaffe

No matter if the upgrades are to H Standards they are ageing and 12-15 years is the max after that PAF will have to take everything out of it's pocket and pay LM for new Herc may it be C-130J stretch or non stretch version or any new variant affordable. PAF should avoid Y-9s [unless AEW&C] times are changing any money for the Chinese product should be invested in the future on Y-20s.


----------



## khanboy007

fatman17 said:


> replacement of transport a/c is an expensive affair. if PAF opts for C130J then it can only happen under a combined FMS grant-aid & country funds. a new Herc costs in the USD 100m range or above. maybe in 5 years time the chinese platforms would have matured for the PAF to evaluate. the CN- spanish/indo models could be another option but these are mostly light transport. the PAF needs a all-weather workhorse like the Herc.
> .



yes, I know its pretty expensive stuff thats why i was mesmerized 

perhaps we can opt for a few C130J's but I guess the Y-20 is a viable option  , as it is a new aircraft it would certainly meet great requirements in terms of its features as its some thing built according to current world situations and requirements, it will offer us alot more than what we may use it for now, those capabilities may be used later on....its a beast


----------



## Luftwaffe

khanboy007 said:


> yes, I know its pretty expensive stuff thats why i was mesmerized
> 
> perhaps we can opt for a few C130J's but I guess the Y-20 is a viable option  , as it is a new aircraft it would certainly meet great requirements in terms of its features as its some thing built according to current world situations and requirements, it will offer us alot more than what we may use it for now, those capabilities may be used later on....its a beast


 
Y-20 could be a potential candidate to replace IL-78s but there is no immediate need to replace 12 years atleast lets wait, Y-20 can't be the replacement of C-130, we can get C-130J [non stretched version] in a decade 10-15 years and shouldn't stick to older C-130H from US parked inventory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

*C-130 Hercules News*
*Pakistan - C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program*
March 11, 2014 (by Lorna Jons) - *The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for a C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $100 million.*



 





Pakistan Air Force L-382B Hercules #4144 from 6 Sqn seen at RIAT on 15 July 2006 sporting a special paint and wrap scheme for the Earthquake relief carried out in 2005. [Photo by Asif Shamim]



Donatello said:


> Wasn't the upgrade already signed circa 2004/2005? because that's when Pakistan send a major arms list to the USA, including those Artillery, M113s, Cobra upgrades, F-16s and P3 Orions.
> 
> So why did it take so long to get the upgrades to H version for the Hercs?


 
that was refurbishment and upgrade of 6 ex-Australian C-130E's - USD75m


----------



## khanboy007

Luftwaffe said:


> Y-20 could be a potential candidate to replace IL-78s but there is no immediate need to replace 12 years atleast lets wait, Y-20 can't be the replacement of C-130, we can get C-130J [non stretched version] in a decade 10-15 years and shouldn't stick to older C-130H from US parked inventory.



The IL-78 is an *air to air refueller* and a cargo plane, meanwhile the Y-20 is a transport aircraft only 

yes indeed the C130 J is a good option but why not a few stretched ones ???


----------



## Luftwaffe

khanboy007 said:


> The IL-78 is an *air to air refueller* and a cargo plane, meanwhile the Y-20 is a transport aircraft only
> 
> yes indeed the C130 J is a good option but why not a few stretched ones ???


 
Y-20 is planned program and there are reports of AWACS, cargo and JSTAR variants...I think Chinese members posted it in China Def Forum Section.

C-130J stretched version is more expensive. I read the article and it seems the men who bought CASA 235 are not happy with it they could have bought C-130s instead.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

*Pakistan requests US for C-130 fleet upgrade*
14 March 2014

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

*Y-9 military transport aircraft *
By DX _on_ 10 January 2014 •




The Y-9 (Yun-9) is a medium-sized, medium-range turboprop multi-purpose transport aircraft designed and manufactured by Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation. Derived from the Y-8 (An-12 Cub) transport aircraft, the Y-9 features improved engines and modern avionics including a ‘glass’ cockpit, and is believed to be comparable to the U.S. Lockheed Martin C-130J in general performance.

*Development History*
Shaanxi began to develop a new military transport designated Y-8X in 2001 to meet the PLA’s requirement for an advanced medium transport aircraft to replace its ageing Y-8 fleet. The aircraft later received a new designation Y-9. The Ukraine-based Antonov Aeronautical Scientific-technical Complex (ASTC) aircraft company provided some assistance to the Y-9 development, including the design of the airframe and wind tunnel testing.

*Key Data*

*Number in service:* Unknown
*Designer:* Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation
*Manufacturer:* Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation
*Maiden flight:* 2006?
*Crew:* Four
*Powerplant:* Four WJ-6C turboprop engines
*Max payload:* 20 tonnes
*Max take-off weight:* 65 tonnes
*Design*
The Y-9 has a similar aerodynamic layout to the Y-8, with high-mounted wings and four turboprop engines mounted under the wing’s leading edge. The rear cargo door also serves as a ramp to allow quick load/unload of cargoes. The tail flats and fin are mounted high. Additional small vertical stabilisers are installed on the tailplanes.

The aircraft has a two-wheeled nose landing gear and two four-wheeled main landing gears. The aircraft has a four-man crew, including two pilots, a flight engineer and a loadmaster.

*Cargo System*
The Y-9’s cargo bay is 16.2 m in length, 3.2 m in width, and 2.3 m in height, with an internal volume of 155 cubic metres. The payload requirement includes a range of military vehicles, cargo containers, pallets, and paratroopers. With a maximum payload capacity of 20 tonnes, the aircraft is capable of carrying 98 paratroopers, or nine international standard pallets of 108” X 88”, or eight 125” X 96” pallets. The cargo bay is also equipped with cargo handling rollers and tie-down rings.

*Avionics*
In addition to radio communication and navigation systems, the Y-9 features a ‘glass’ cockpit and modern avionics including ground proximity warning and collision avoidance systems. An electro-optical turret containing forward-looking infrared (FLIR) and TV sensors is mounted under the fuselage for day/night, all-weather operation.

*Engines*
The Y-9 is powered by four WJ-6C (Wojian-6C) turboprop engines each rated 5.100hp. The engine features a six-bladed JL-4 propeller.

*Specifications
CARGO BAY DIMENSIONS*
Length 16.2m
Width 3.2m
Height 2.3m
*WEIGHTS*
Empty 39t
Normal take-off N/A
Max take-off 65t
Fuel capacity 23t
Max payload 20t
*PROPULSION*
Powerplant 4X WJ-6C turboprop
Thrust (dry) N/A
*PERFORMANCE*
Max level speed 570km/h
Cruising speed 550km/h
Cruising altitude 8,000m
Service ceiling 10,100m
Range 5,000km
Take-off/landing distance 1,350m

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Faraz5000

I think..PAF should opt for...! C-17 or C5 Globe master..! As they can also be used for humanitarian relief and will easily cater Paf need to next 25 to 30 years..!


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Globe Master!!! Does the name suggests something about the mission parameters of both those a/c? Let us first take care of some of the crazies in our hills than talk about our Global reach through the Globe Master !!!! 

Seriously......

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Indus Falcon

Faraz5000 said:


> I think..PAF should opt for...! C-17 or C5 Globe master..! As they can also be used for humanitarian relief and will easily cater Paf need to next 25 to 30 years..!



C5 production line = closed. 
C5 Upgrades = canceled due to budget cuts

C17 = currently in production but production line near closure approx 2015

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

enjoy karo

*طیب اردگان کیلئے گھوڑے کا تحفہ، 3افسر چارٹر طیارے پر لے کر ترکی روانہ, 40لاکھ خرچہ *
گھوڑے کو 25مارچ کو سرگودھا سے اسلام آباد پہنچایا جانا تھا، ایک روز تاخیر پر انکوائری شروع
28 مارچ 2014 (23:43)




لاہور (مانیٹرنگ ڈیسک) پنجاب حکومت کی جانب سے ترکی کے وزیراعظم طیب اردگان کو تحفہ میں دیا گیا گھوڑا بالآخر استنبول روانہ کردیا گیا تاہم گھوڑے کو سرگودھا س اسلام آباد تاخیر سے پہنچانے پر سیکرٹری لائیوسٹاک نے انکوائری شروع کردی۔ ذرائع کے مطابق گھوڑا استنبول لے جانے والے افسروں کو کہا گیا ہے کہ دورہ پر آنے والے اخراجات کی انہیں وطن واپسی پر ادائیگی کی جائے گی۔ گریڈ 17 سے 20 تک کے افسروں جن میں ڈپٹی سیکرٹری ایڈمن عامر علی چشتی، ڈپٹی ڈائریکٹر ہیڈ کوارٹر ڈاکٹر محمد رمضان اور اسسٹنٹ ویٹرنٹری آفیسر محمد اسلم شامل ہیں*، اپنی مدد آپ کے تحت سی 130 چارٹر طیارہ میں گھوڑا لے کر ترکی روانہ ہوگئے ہیں۔ سیکرٹری لائیوسٹاک کی ہدایت پر گھوڑے کو سرگودھا سے اسلام ااباد 25 مارچ کو پہنچایا جانا تھا جو ایک روز تاخیر سے پہنچا۔ 27 مارچ کو سی 130 طیارے کے ذریعے ترکی روانہ کیا گیا۔ *ڈائریکٹر پی وی ٹی وی راولپنڈی کو ہنگامی ھالات مین سیکرٹری لائیوسٹاک کے سامنے پیش ہونے کی ہدایت کی گئی تھی۔* گھوڑا 8لاکھ روپے میں سرگودھا کے آرمی ڈپو سے خریدا گیا جس کو ترکی پہنچانے پر تقریباً 40 لاکھ روپے کے اخراجات آئیں گے۔*


*طیب اردگان کیلئے گھوڑے کا تحفہ، 3افسر چارٹر طیارے پر لے کر ترکی روانہ, 40لاکھ خرچہ*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Indus Falcon

This is a text book case of how to waste the taxpayers hard earned money! 

No wonder people don't want to pay taxes!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Faraz5000

But why india is procuring c-17..alredy procured few and many more to come..! Its a complete solution i guess...nd c130is very old..!


----------



## fatman17

Faraz5000 said:


> But why india is procuring c-17..alredy procured few and many more to come..! Its a complete solution i guess...nd c130is very old..!


 
india is a big country


----------



## TOPGUN

Imran Khan said:


> enjoy karo
> 
> *طیب اردگان کیلئے گھوڑے کا تحفہ، 3افسر چارٹر طیارے پر لے کر ترکی روانہ, 40لاکھ خرچہ *
> گھوڑے کو 25مارچ کو سرگودھا سے اسلام آباد پہنچایا جانا تھا، ایک روز تاخیر پر انکوائری شروع
> 28 مارچ 2014 (23:43)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> لاہور (مانیٹرنگ ڈیسک) پنجاب حکومت کی جانب سے ترکی کے وزیراعظم طیب اردگان کو تحفہ میں دیا گیا گھوڑا بالآخر استنبول روانہ کردیا گیا تاہم گھوڑے کو سرگودھا س اسلام آباد تاخیر سے پہنچانے پر سیکرٹری لائیوسٹاک نے انکوائری شروع کردی۔ ذرائع کے مطابق گھوڑا استنبول لے جانے والے افسروں کو کہا گیا ہے کہ دورہ پر آنے والے اخراجات کی انہیں وطن واپسی پر ادائیگی کی جائے گی۔ گریڈ 17 سے 20 تک کے افسروں جن میں ڈپٹی سیکرٹری ایڈمن عامر علی چشتی، ڈپٹی ڈائریکٹر ہیڈ کوارٹر ڈاکٹر محمد رمضان اور اسسٹنٹ ویٹرنٹری آفیسر محمد اسلم شامل ہیں*، اپنی مدد آپ کے تحت سی 130 چارٹر طیارہ میں گھوڑا لے کر ترکی روانہ ہوگئے ہیں۔ سیکرٹری لائیوسٹاک کی ہدایت پر گھوڑے کو سرگودھا سے اسلام ااباد 25 مارچ کو پہنچایا جانا تھا جو ایک روز تاخیر سے پہنچا۔ 27 مارچ کو سی 130 طیارے کے ذریعے ترکی روانہ کیا گیا۔ *ڈائریکٹر پی وی ٹی وی راولپنڈی کو ہنگامی ھالات مین سیکرٹری لائیوسٹاک کے سامنے پیش ہونے کی ہدایت کی گئی تھی۔* گھوڑا 8لاکھ روپے میں سرگودھا کے آرمی ڈپو سے خریدا گیا جس کو ترکی پہنچانے پر تقریباً 40 لاکھ روپے کے اخراجات آئیں گے۔*
> 
> 
> *طیب اردگان کیلئے گھوڑے کا تحفہ، 3افسر چارٹر طیارے پر لے کر ترکی روانہ, 40لاکھ خرچہ*




English version plzz Imran bhai .... for us ABCD's


----------



## Imran Khan

TOPGUN said:


> English version plzz Imran bhai .... for us ABCD's


 bhai jaan sorry 

shahubaaz gifted a horse to Turkish urdgaan . he order sectaries to transfer the horse to turkey . so they paid 40 lakhs to PAF and hire a C-130 from chaklala base and transfers the horse to turkey with our god damn money and plane . they buy this horse from army in 8 lakhs lolzzz our money is circulating and resources being messed up . a C-130 carried a horse for urdgan to turkey .this what is can translate bro

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khail007

Imran Khan said:


> bhai jaan sorry
> 
> *shahubaaz* gifted a horse to Turkish urdgaan . he order sectaries to transfer the horse to turkey . so they paid 40 lakhs to PAF and hire a C-130 from chaklala base and transfers the horse to turkey with our god damn money and plane . they buy this horse from army in 8 lakhs lolzzz our money is circulating and resources being messed up . a C-130 carried a horse for urdgan to turkey .this what is can translate bro



Imran Sahib, please spell the bold word correctly; it is not *shahubaaz*; it is *show-baz* - thankyou.


----------



## TOPGUN

Imran Khan said:


> bhai jaan sorry
> 
> shahubaaz gifted a horse to Turkish urdgaan . he order sectaries to transfer the horse to turkey . so they paid 40 lakhs to PAF and hire a C-130 from chaklala base and transfers the horse to turkey with our god damn money and plane . they buy this horse from army in 8 lakhs lolzzz our money is circulating and resources being messed up . a C-130 carried a horse for urdgan to turkey .this what is can translate bro



Lol thx mara bhai , funny story yaar lolz hahahah thx

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

khail007 said:


> Imran Sahib, please spell the bold word correctly; it is not *shahubaaz*; it is *show-baz* - thankyou.


 sorry yaar next time i will


----------



## nomi007




----------



## nomi007

turkey is going to replace its 
Transall C-160 with more advance A400 cargo aircraft
they are good for us if paf try to get some 6-8


----------



## Luftwaffe

nomi007 said:


> turkey is going to replace its
> Transall C-160 with more advance A400 cargo aircraft they are good for us if paf try to get some 6-8



Not so fast they aren't replacing them very soon not for the next 8-10 years nor should PAF invest in an aircraft that is very old with almmost no support later on. The design of C-160 is highly conventional unlike C-130 construction is of all-metal compared to C-130 its getting older we should look forward in a decade towards C-130J non stretched version which should cost around 90-95m each.


----------



## nomi007

Once upon a time in paf

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007

*PAKISTAN AIRFORCE ONE*



POSITIVE RATE + REQUIRED

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

baloch teachers visit nur khan base

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Black Eagle 90

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 25808
> 
> 
> View attachment 25811


PAF should ask KSA to sell them their C-130s and US can pay for that along with Upgrade.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


----------



## fatman17

Black Eagle 90 said:


> PAF should ask KSA to sell them their C-130s and US can pay for that along with Upgrade.


 
why should the US pay?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Black Eagle 90

fatman17 said:


> why should the US pay?


Pakistan won't be able to pay


----------



## araz

Black Eagle 90 said:


> PAF should ask KSA to sell them their C-130s and US can pay for that along with Upgrade.


Please stop being silly. You have to sit back and for 2 weeks read each and every post of the topic you are interested in. Learn how questions are asked and opinions ventured. 
Araz

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Black Eagle 90

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 25808
> 
> 
> View attachment 25811


After seeing these pictures I really suggest that PAF which loves these should get more of these.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


----------



## Najam Khan

Photo taken at Muzzafarad AJK on 12-Oct 2005. Runway was destroyed by earth quake and the only means of supply was air drops.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Najam Khan said:


> Photo taken at Muzzafarad AJK on 12-Oct 2005. Runway was destroyed by earth quake and the only means of supply was air drops.


its nice to see u again here. We need people like u who r informative and can be engaged in a meaningful discussions.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

*Today in C-130 history
30 Apr 1968 *
L-100 #64145 of the Pakistan Air Force, crashed when wing broke in turbulence near Chaklala, Rawalpindi, Pakistan.

Aircraft T/V Local S/N AF/Unit Version Date Status Details
4145 *Delivered:* AP-AUU




Civilian L100 Oct 1966 [act] Details

*Current:* 64145



PAF 6 Sqn L100 30 Apr 1968 [w/o]


----------



## nomi007

chinese y-9 is better option to replace c-130b versions

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

nomi007 said:


> chinese y-9 is better option to replace c-130b versions


 no its not boss c-130 is 5 times batter then

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Imran Khan said:


> no its not boss c-130 is 5 times batter then


with kill switch button c-130 is much better


----------



## Imran Khan

nomi007 said:


> with kill switch button c-130 is much better


do you belive it sir?


----------



## fatman17

Imran Khan said:


> do you belive it sir?


 
miti pao yar...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Black Eagle 90

nomi007 said:


> chinese y-9 is better option to replace c-130b versions


KSA and other GCC countries should look in to joining it and also making a new version similar to ZN-295s.


----------



## nomi007

http://www.airbusmilitary.com/Portals/0/Swf/3Ds/3D-CN235.swf


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Cockpit of modified C-130E.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indus Falcon

nomi007 said:


> with kill switch button c-130 is much better


Who told you this fairy tale?


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> Cockpit of modified C-130E.


 glass cockpit to H-standard


----------



## nomi007

CN-235 gunship modified by ATK for the Royal Jordanian Air Force seen landing at Meachem airfield, Ft Worth Texas.



good and reliable idea for paf to convert 2 CN-235 into gunship 
that will be a nightmare for Taliban


----------



## Capt.Popeye

nomi007 said:


> CN-235 gunship modified by ATK for the Royal Jordanian Air Force seen landing at Meachem airfield, Ft Worth Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> good and reliable idea for paf to convert 2 CN-235 into gunship
> that will be a nightmare for Taliban




Too big a target, can be brought down by a shoulder-launched MANPAD. A smaller Turbo-prop armed trainer can work better at the same task; CHEAPER and more efficiently.


----------



## nomi007

Capt.Popeye said:


> Too big a target, can be brought down by a shoulder-launched MANPAD. A smaller Turbo-prop armed trainer can work better at the same task; CHEAPER and more efficiently.


how many ac-130 has been down last 13 years in afghanistan


----------



## Capt.Popeye

nomi007 said:


> how many ac-130 has been down last 13 years in afghanistan



Not every AF is the USAF, keep that in mind...... 
TPTs can do the job better and cheaper in the hands of a lesser AF.
Or even armed Mi-17s to some extent.


----------



## nomi007

*Capt.Popeye* chulo
they already shot down mi-17 of paa


----------



## Capt.Popeye

nomi007 said:


> *Capt.Popeye* chulo
> they already shot down mi-17 of paa



TPTs are much better for the job than Helos. And very cost effective.


----------



## Informant

Saw a C-130 in Lahore. Any ideas what was it doing at teh Airport?


----------



## antonyye

The_Pakistan Air Force_abbreviated as_PAF_, is the air warfare branch of the Pakistan Armed Forces


----------



## nomi007

paf crew in Jordon before delivery

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Munir

I heard rumor that there already a few more F16's from Jordan delivered. It isn't big deal for PAF cause the engineers there were already partly Pakistani. Our reserves are probably gonna end up near the 100. Sounds logical with the delaying/canceling J10B and entering J31 team (which as J35 will end up as naval version).

What is a very strange issue is that maybe Aim9X will be transferred with those Hercules you see in the picture... That seems the big part in this deal. It does relate to earlier rumors that Jordan will be used as intermediate to sell the Aim9X to PAF...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## elitepilot09

Munir said:


> I heard rumor that there already a few more F16's from Jordan delivered. It isn't big deal for PAF cause the engineers there were already partly Pakistani. Our reserves are probably gonna end up near the 100. Sounds logical with the delaying/canceling J10B and entering J31 team (which as J35 will end up as naval version).
> 
> What is a very strange issue is that maybe Aim9X will be transferred with those Hercules you see in the picture... That seems the big part in this deal. It does relate to earlier rumors that Jordan will be used as intermediate to sell the Aim9X to PAF...



China will not let Pakistan enter any J31/35 team anytime soon, or the distant future. Quote me on it if you'd like.


----------



## fatman17

Munir said:


> I heard rumor that there already a few more F16's from Jordan delivered. It isn't big deal for PAF cause the engineers there were already partly Pakistani. Our reserves are probably gonna end up near the 100. Sounds logical with the delaying/canceling J10B and entering J31 team (which as J35 will end up as naval version).
> 
> What is a very strange issue is that maybe Aim9X will be transferred with those Hercules you see in the picture... That seems the big part in this deal. It does relate to earlier rumors that Jordan will be used as intermediate to sell the Aim9X to PAF...


 
now we know 11 are already delivered.

AIM-9Xthey will need to get from the US




C-130E landing in winter conditions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Donatello

Munir said:


> I heard rumor that there already a few more F16's from Jordan delivered. It isn't big deal for PAF cause the engineers there were already partly Pakistani. Our reserves are probably gonna end up near the 100. Sounds logical with the delaying/canceling J10B and entering J31 team (which as J35 will end up as naval version).
> 
> What is a very strange issue is that maybe Aim9X will be transferred with those Hercules you see in the picture... That seems the big part in this deal. It does relate to earlier rumors that Jordan will be used as intermediate to sell the Aim9X to PAF...



Does Jordan have stockpile of AIM9Xs? But with the transfer of Jordanian Cobras and now F-16s, it does seem Jordan is the new intermediate route to Pakistan for US defense equipment. Good diplomacy i must say, along with Turkey. Jordan has truly shone as a brother of the Pakistani nation.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## nomi007

paf C-130 carries Aerospatiale SA.316 Alouette III

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

C-130E





C-130E





C-130E





C-130E





C-130E. note the change of livery on 10689

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## nomi007

*In late 2004, PAF inducted a Citation Ce-560XL in its inventory. No.12 VIP Communication Sqn Operates this aircraft*.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Pakistan Air Force Bristol Freighter at #Lahore c. 1958

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

*



USAF #53-396
YC-130A *
First C-130 prototype. Constructed at Burbank California. First flight was on August 23, 1954.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## viki99

4159


----------



## turkbordobereli

From Turkish photographer Ertugrul Birel..

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## fatman17

*15 Jul 1966 C-130B #24142 of the Pakistan Air Force (6 Squadron) crashed into mountain in Pakistan. All ten aboard killed*


----------



## fatman17

C-130 at RIAT

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Pakistan airforce C-130E Hercules at Germany.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

PAF - L100

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Junaid Ashraf

Any chances of PAF getting more C-130s from Middle East???


----------



## fatman17

Junaid Ashraf said:


> Any chances of PAF getting more C-130s from Middle East???



why from ME? anyway all 16 C-130's are undergoing upgrade to extend their life for another 10 years.


----------



## Junaid Ashraf

fatman17 said:


> why from ME? anyway all 16 C-130's are undergoing upgrade to extend their life for another 10 years.


Good! But I think we require more.... Which Middle East can provide at good cost...


----------



## fatman17

*TCS* C-130 (on loan) .
is it true that a C-130/L-100 is on loan to TCS for their air-freight business?.


----------



## Reichmarshal

fatman17 said:


> *TCS* C-130 (on loan) .
> is it true that a C-130/L-100 is on loan to TCS for their air-freight business?.


They operate two AN12 ac. I dont think they have added any c130 to their fleet


----------



## fatman17

Reichmarshal said:


> They operate two AN12 ac. I dont think they have added any c130 to their fleet


 
i believe they are having maintenance issues with the AN-12's. Scramble web-site reported that a PAF C-130/L-100 is on loan to TCS.


----------



## fatman17

C-130 in China.




C-130 Crew - c~1960's

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

IL-78MRTT at Konya





Chaklala (Nur Khan AB) home to the composite transport wing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

PIA DC-3 proving flight Chitral.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

*C-130 Hercules Celebrates 60 Years Of Flight*




we are also 1 of the oldest operator of this great plane

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Donatello

fatman17 said:


> i believe they are having maintenance issues with the AN-12's. Scramble web-site reported that a PAF C-130/L-100 is on loan to TCS.



Was it a serving PAF aircraft? How can PAF lease it's capability to a private party?


----------



## fatman17

No: 6 SQN




One of the oldest serving C-130's in PAF service - + 48 years.




C-130 landing at St.John's airport, Canada

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hassan1

PAF VIKERS VIKING

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007




----------



## Imran Khan

Donatello said:


> Was it a serving PAF aircraft? How can PAF lease it's capability to a private party?


 you can lease PAF C-130 also boss also air eagle have L-382B HERCULES


----------



## fatman17

PAF - Prairie Falcon
Symbol of Pride


----------



## hassan1

c 130 without roundel


----------



## Hurter

PAF should buy now some new Air transport Airplanes


----------



## fatman17

Junaid B said:


> PAF should buy now some new Air transport Airplanes


 
why....all C-130's are being upgraded to H-standard. it will give them a life extension of 10-15 years. meanwhile 4 C-235 med.transport and 4 IL-78MRTT have been added to the transport inventory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Junaid B said:


> PAF should buy now some new Air transport Airplanes

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

6Sqdn Desert Patch





6Sqdn - Globe Trotters





Transport Conversion School Crest


----------



## fatman17

According to following tender notice that appeared in July 21, 2014, newspaper, Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Base Nur Khan, Rawalpindi, has invited Ilyushin Design Bureau certified suppliers for Life Enhancement Program (LEP) of an Ilyushin Il-78MP Midas Multi Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) aircraft. The tender notice also seeks overhauling or exchange of four engines for the aircraft. Engine overhauling has to be undertaken by Russian aircraft engine manufacturer NPO Saturn.
The tender notice also seeks installation of galley and lavatory in all four Il-78 aircraft in PAF inventory. This modification has to be undertaken in conformance with Ilyushin Design Bureau standard.
Provision and replacement of complete centre wing of a Lockheed C-130 Hercules aircraft is also sought under this tender notice.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 87030
> According to following tender notice that appeared in July 21, 2014, newspaper, Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Base Nur Khan, Rawalpindi, has invited Ilyushin Design Bureau certified suppliers for Life Enhancement Program (LEP) of an Ilyushin Il-78MP Midas Multi Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) aircraft. The tender notice also seeks overhauling or exchange of four engines for the aircraft. Engine overhauling has to be undertaken by Russian aircraft engine manufacturer NPO Saturn.
> The tender notice also seeks installation of galley and lavatory in all four Il-78 aircraft in PAF inventory. This modification has to be undertaken in conformance with Ilyushin Design Bureau standard.
> Provision and replacement of complete centre wing of a Lockheed C-130 Hercules aircraft is also sought under this tender notice.


old tander janab last month main open kiya tha


----------



## fatman17

Imran Khan said:


> old tander janab last month main open kiya tha


 
jee bilkul but we dont know what happened further.


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> jee bilkul but we dont know what happened further.


sir jee military tender hai jab tak compleate nhi hota kuch pata nhi chaly ga


----------



## fatman17

Imran Khan said:


> sir jee military tender hai jab tak compleate nhi hota kuch pata nhi chaly ga


 then its valid to post...


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> then its valid to post...


jo hukum sarkar ka hum thanks bhi maar dety hain oper se

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Heard that PAF will be getting six refurb C-130 starting sometime next year to bring the planned total to 22 a/c.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

Aamir Hussain said:


> Heard that PAF will be getting six refurb C-130 starting sometime next year to bring the planned total to 22 a/c.


 from where you haired boss


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Heard it from within Defense Procurement circuit.


----------



## fatman17

Aamir Hussain said:


> Heard that PAF will be getting six refurb C-130 starting sometime next year to bring the planned total to 22 a/c.


 
hope we r not talking about the USD75m upgrade for the existing fleet?


----------



## Bratva

They purchased IL-78 without lavatory?


----------



## Imran Khan

Bratva said:


> They purchased IL-78 without lavatory?


 let me remember you IL-78s were in use of airliners


----------



## fatman17

Bratva said:


> They purchased IL-78 without lavatory?


 
they use window of former tail-gunner....


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bratva

fatman17 said:


> they use window of former tail-gunner....



meaning ?


----------



## Aamir Hussain

fatman17 said:


> hope we r not talking about the USD75m upgrade for the existing fleet?



No Sir, I thought so too in the beginning and took some time to confirm it from two sources, one a Sq. Leader and another very high in Defense Procurement. Six refurb a/c other the existing fleet, will be added starting next year.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Aamir Hussain said:


> No Sir, I thought so too in the beginning and took some time to confirm it from two sources, one a Sq. Leader and another very high in Defense Procurement. Six refurb a/c other the existing fleet, will be added starting next year.


 
that is good news....

22 C-130's not bad...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## osama zafar

it can and we do have enough planes for our requirement


----------



## fatman17

on another topic, a source is telling me that the IL-78MRTT experiment has not panned out due to high operating and maintenance costs. the aircraft are in desperate need of a cockpit and engine upgrade.


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Yes my source also mentioned that. The a/c will go thru a number of upgrades. The operating cost of this a/c is better on longer routes specially when ferrying parts and equipment from EU n US.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

Aamir Hussain said:


> Yes my source also mentioned that. The a/c will go thru a number of upgrades. The operating cost of this a/c is better on longer routes specially when ferrying parts and equipment from EU n US.


what are the chances that PAF will get that sorted and IL78 will get the required upgrades?
in case of C-138 or F-16 MLU usually we look towards USA and there FMF but no such thing is available for Il78. Well we be keeping them flying and in prime condition?
recently they have served us well in transporting missiles and parts of Jf-17 etc so need to keep them in prime condition.
You people have any idea about the PAF plans for this? how serious they are about this?



fatman17 said:


> they use window of former tail-gunner....


indirectly, you are saying that we still employ tail gunners in our Il-78s


----------



## fatman17

Arsalan said:


> what are the chances that PAF will get that sorted and IL78 will get the required upgrades?
> in case of C-138 or F-16 MLU usually we look towards USA and there FMF but no such thing is available for Il78. Well we be keeping them flying and in prime condition?
> recently they have served us well in transporting missiles and parts of Jf-17 etc so need to keep them in prime condition.
> You people have any idea about the PAF plans for this? how serious they are about this?
> 
> 
> indirectly, you are saying that we still employ tail gunners in our Il-78s


 
2 sources for IL-78 upgrades...Ukraine and Russia....Ukraine is out due to civil war which leaves the Russians as the source or an alternate source is China who is buying IL-78 in large numbers with the new uprated engines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aamir Hussain

As far as I know, because of the "tanker" role of the aircraft, it will be upgraded. These were not new a/c when bought. so logically, there would be some changes to suit to our needs.

Long Haul missions have been an issue for C-130 a/c and crews while ferrying arms and equipment from abroad. This a/c is suited for such missions in addition to its needed role of a tanker aircraft.

Furthermore, this a/c was added into the fleet to ensure Air Delivery of Nuclear Weapons remains a viable option in the face of threat from SU's.

So this a/c will remain in the fleet with necessary upgrades. The plane has the capacity and space to be upgraded including mission avionics.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Donatello

fatman17 said:


> on another topic, a source is telling me that the IL-78MRTT experiment has not panned out due to high operating and maintenance costs. the aircraft are in desperate need of a cockpit and engine upgrade.




Not to mention the deafening roar of the engines, if you happen to be underneath it's landing/takeoff path.


----------



## fatman17

Donatello said:


> Not to mention the deafening roar of the engines, if you happen to be underneath it's landing/takeoff path.


 
thats why its restricted from landing at many airports in EU and USA.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> 2 sources for IL-78 upgrades...Ukraine and Russia....Ukraine is out due to civil war which leaves the Russians as the source or an alternate source is China who is buying IL-78 in large numbers with the new uprated engines.





Aamir Hussain said:


> As far as I know, because of the "tanker" role of the aircraft, it will be upgraded. These were not new a/c when bought. so logically, there would be some changes to suit to our needs.
> 
> Long Haul missions have been an issue for C-130 a/c and crews while ferrying arms and equipment from abroad. This a/c is suited for such missions in addition to its needed role of a tanker aircraft.
> 
> Furthermore, this a/c was added into the fleet to ensure Air Delivery of Nuclear Weapons remains a viable option in the face of threat from SU's.
> 
> So this a/c will remain in the fleet with necessary upgrades. The plane has the capacity and space to be upgraded including mission avionics.



But sir apart from the source for upgrade, the other most important think is will on PAF's part and the finance to carry out these upgrades. The question is what is the news from inner circles of PAF. WILL we get these upgraded and keep them operational. As you have also mentioned, the IL78 form an integral part of our air transport capabilities, not to mention in-flight refueling role they were primary bought for. These aircraft have already proven there worth in transporting arms from EU and continental America.


----------



## Inception-06

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 91472



what the Hell happened to this PAF C-130 !


----------



## Imran Khan

Ulla said:


> what the Hell happened to this PAF C-130 !


 it was born like this abnormal

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

its that baby which come for parts from USA boss back half is fitted here now on 492 and flying















*1970 (c/n 490) to MASDC as XA0034 Aug 13, 1973, to HF0088 Sep 5, 1979. Seen at Aviation Warehouse, El Mirage, CA*
* Oct 2007. *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aamir Hussain

I am not privy to the inner workings of PAF. However, logically the mission parameters and objectives of the IL are directly interlaced with deep interdiction, nuclear weapon standoff delivery and first strike capability mission of PAF as part of the developing nuclear Triad.

This alone guarantees the survivability of IL in PAF for some time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

*



Ilyushin IL-78 (Midas)
In-Flight Refueling Tanker Aircraft

(1984)*

The Soviet / Russian military has received a great number of years of faithful service from its Ilyushin IL-76 line (NATO codename of "Candid") of four-engined jet aircraft. The series first flew in 1971 and was debuted in June of 1974 as a strategic airlifter to help Soviet forces support its interests around the world. Some 960 airframes were eventually completed with many exported to allies and former states - some servicing the civilian market as jetliners and others modernized into more capable military forms.

In the 1970s, thought was given to modifying the type for service in the aerial refueling role as a tanker aircraft and this produced the IL-78 "Midas" of 1984. First flight was on June 26th, 1983. The type remains in service and production is ongoing today (2014) with 53 total units completed.

The IL-78 has its roots in a late-1960s initiative by the Soviets to produce a tanker offshoot of the
IL-76 line but the bulk of the work to bring the new system to pass happened in the late 1970s thanks to evermore evolved forms of the IL-76 airframe that emerged. The IL-76 lost its cargo-hauling and management hardware during the conversion process and was fitted with three refueling positions to service three awaiting/trailing aircraft at once. The aircraft utilized the proven three-point "hose-and-drogue" delivery system with a fuel dispensing position found under each wing and one under the tail.

Trials were undertaken in 1977 through a converted IL-76MD airframe and this testing led to certification trials thereafter, spanning into the early 1980s. First deliveries were in 1984 and official service

began in 1987 - replacing the outgoing stock of Mya-4 "Bison" tankers. The crew numbered seven with the rear tail gun position of the IL-76 replaced by an observer's perch. Additionally, ranging radar was installed as were formation lights at the cargo door ramp so as to be visible by the approaching recipient aircraft - particular in night time refueling exercises.


Ilyushin IL-78 (Midas) - In-Flight Refueling Tanker Aircraft - History, Specs and Pictures - Military Aircraft
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1263[02/10/14 10:50:34 AM]


On the whole, the IL-78 retains much of the form of the classic Soviet IL-76. It features the large, high-mounted main wing assemblies each holding with two underslung engine nacelles. The flight deck is over the nose with a commanding view of the environment ahead and around the massive aircraft. The fuselage is very tubular and aerodynamically efficient with few protrusions apparent. The tail unit constitutes a single vertical tail fin with highmounted horizontal planes in a "T-style" arrangement. The undercarriage is wheeled and fully retractable with a twowheeled nose leg and multi-wheeled main legs under the mass of the airframe.

Original production versions were known simply as "IL-78" and these carried up to 188,540lbs of fuel through two removable tanks held in the fuselage. The IL-78T was similar in scope though it kept the cargo-hauling capabilities of the original IL-76 freighter. The IL-78M of 1987 became the first true dedicated tanker form as it carried three large fuel stores in a fixed arrangement. The cargo door was removed (though the ramp was retained) as was the cargo management equipment. Carried fuel loads now reached over 300,000lbs. The export version of this mark became the IL-78ME. The IL-78MKI was a version delivered to the Indian Air Force (IAF) and were airframes completed in Uzbekistan with Israeli-based fuel transfer system and applicable equipment. The Chinese and Pakistani air forces
received the IL-78MP which were tanker forms (removable fuel tanks) retaining some of their cargo-hauling and cargo management capabilities. Beyond these operators, the IL-78 has been taken on in limited numbers by the forces of Algeria and Libya. Ukraine also operates up to eight of the type.

Furthermore, some IL-78 aircraft are operated privately by American companies overseas.

Performance from IL-78M models includes a maximum speed of 530 miles per hour with a range out to 4,535 miles. The aircraft sports a service ceiling of 39,350 feet. Power is through 4 x Aviadvigatel (Soloviev) D-30 KP series turbofan engines of 26,700lbs thrust each. Variations of this engine were featured in the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-31"Foxhound" interceptor, the Ilyushin IL-62 "Classic" airliner, and the Tupolev Tu-154 "Careless" airliner.

From March to April 2014, the Chinese Air Force acquired three IL-78MDs to help improve its long-range strategic ability. This initiative also falls in line with the long-term development of an indigenous strategic bomber currently on the drawing board for the PLA. The IL-78MDs were modified in Ukraine with Russian equipment. The PLA also relies on a fleet of twenty-six H-6U tanker aircraft - aerial refueling versions of the local
Xian H-6 strategic bomber. The bomber itself is based on the Soviet Tupolev Tu-16 bomber of the early 1950s.


Text ©2003-2014
Military Factory - Military Weapons - Aircraft, Tanks, Vehicles, Artillery, Navy Ships and Guns throughout history All Rights Reserved. No Reproduction Permitted. Email



Specifications for the
*Ilyushin IL-78 (Midas)

In-Flight Refueling Tanker Aircraft

Focus Model:*

Ilyushin IL-78 (Midas)
*Country of Origin:*

Soviet Union
*Manufacturer:*

Ilyushin - Soviet Union / Russia
*Initial Year of Service:*

1984
*Production:*

53
*Crew:*

6
*Length:*

152.89 ft (46.6 m)
*Width:*

165.68 ft (50.50 m)
*Height:*

48.43ft (14.76 m)
*Weight (Empty):*

158,733 lb (72,000 kg)
*Weight (MTOW):*

462,971 lb (210,000 kg)
*Powerplant:*

4 Aviadvigatel D-30 KP turbofan engines developing 27,000lbs thrust each.
*Maximum Speed:*

528 mph (850kmh; 459 kts)
*Maximum Range:*

4,536 miles (7,300km)
*Service Ceiling:*

39,370 ft (12,000 m; 7.5 miles)
*Rate-of-Climb:*

0 feet per minute (0 m/min)
*Hardpoints:*

0
*Armament Suite:*

None.
*Variants:*

IL-78 ("Midas") - Base Series Designation
IL-78 - Initial production model
IL-78T - Aerial tanker retaining cargo-hauling capability of IL-76 transport.
IL-78M - Model of 1987; dedicated aerial refueler; increased fuel load.
IL-78M-90A - Proposed variant
IL-78ME - Export model based on the IL-78M model
IL-78MKI - Indian Air Force model; Israeli equipment with modification by Uzbekistan.
IL-78MP - Hybrid cargo-tanker; in service with China and Pakistan.

*Operators:*

Algeria; China; Libya; Pakistan; Russia; Soviet Union; Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## nomi007

Boeing still have 10 brand new c-17s
i wish paf will also get 4-5 of them

‘white tailed’ aircrafts


----------



## Imran Khan

nomi007 said:


> Boeing still have 10 brand new c-17s
> i wish paf will also get 4-5 of them
> 
> ‘white tailed’ aircrafts


and each one cost some 225mn$ fly away cost . janab in 1 bn we can have 1000MW power plant which we need more badly then c-17s

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRK

nomi007 said:


> Boeing still have 10 brand new *c-17s*
> i wish paf will also get *4-5* of them
> 
> ‘white tailed’ aircrafts



you probably get infected by 'Nishan' virus ... 

it cost around ~ 250$ million

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanboy007

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 87030
> According to following tender notice that appeared in July 21, 2014, newspaper, Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Base Nur Khan, Rawalpindi, has invited Ilyushin Design Bureau certified suppliers for Life Enhancement Program (LEP) of an Ilyushin Il-78MP Midas Multi Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) aircraft. The tender notice also seeks overhauling or exchange of four engines for the aircraft. Engine overhauling has to be undertaken by Russian aircraft engine manufacturer NPO Saturn.
> The tender notice also seeks installation of galley and lavatory in all four Il-78 aircraft in PAF inventory. This modification has to be undertaken in conformance with Ilyushin Design Bureau standard.
> Provision and replacement of complete centre wing of a Lockheed C-130 Hercules aircraft is also sought under this tender notice.



well good to hear that they are upgrading that beast  it has a lot of potential and room for major upgrades....it's like the ford mustang of the skies....

i read that they are planning a galley does our ilyushin lack that or is it an upgrade we are talking of ??? because it also states modification as per ....

here is a video, it has a galley and an interior (other normal ilyushin)






I am aware of the fact that what a galley is but is it a catering galley ??






ilyushin is used on long haul flights.....im surprised if there arent any :O 

how old are the engines we have right now ??? i know many other ilyushins have had engines replaced by now

thanks


----------



## nomi007

Imran Khan said:


> and each one cost some 225mn$ fly away cost . janab in 1 bn we can have 1000MW power plant which we need more badly then c-17s


mujhe pata tha imran ap jaroor reply karo ge

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

nomi007 said:


> mujhe pata tha imran ap jaroor reply karo ge


 janab hum kab se indian ho gaay ? zaroor to suna tha lolzzzz . but its my thoughts sir you can disagree .. PAF is waiting for china made c-17 as we all know


----------



## black-hawk_101

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 104247



I think PAF love this machine. I would love to see 11 of them more that can make up a fleet of 15 IL-78 able to handle transport and refueling duties along with 40-50 C-130H and about 10-15 CN-235s. With all C-130s being upgraded and also the Il-78 too.


----------



## fatman17

Antonov-225 at ISLD. delivery of JF-17 engines and other parts.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

C-130E - ex-IRAN









C-130 on final at Istanbul

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pakistan needs 10 more units of news years for the normal operations of support and transport

Plus 5 Mid sized alternative crafts would be also good for diversifying the force assets


----------



## black-hawk_101

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 136493
> Antonov-225 at ISLD. delivery of JF-17 engines and other parts.



Nice. All load in a single phase.



fatman17 said:


> View attachment 136494
> C-130E - ex-IRAN
> 
> View attachment 136495
> 
> 
> View attachment 136496
> C-130 on final at Istanbul
> 
> View attachment 136497



Pakistan can also buy RSAF C-130s too.

Also tell any chances of PAF getting 47-50 AC-130s from USA with upgrades?


----------



## nomi007

Did You Know?

Pakistan Air Force Gulfstream Aerospace G-IV-X Gulfstream G450 (serial # J-756) is an official aircraft of the President of Islamic Republic Pakistan. The plane is commonly called "PAK ONE", the call sign under which it operates

The jet has a range of 3,000 to 4,000 nautical miles (7,400 km) and is fitted with encrypted satellite communication facilities and advanced navigation aids. The jets is also equipped with an advanced missile warning system, a missile deflecting shield and electronic counter measures so as to provide protection from any ground-based or air-borne threats

Squadron 14 of Pakistan Air Force also known as 'Globe Trotters' based at Chaklala Airbase is in charge of operations and handling transportation of the President of Islamic Republic Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

*



Embraer KC-390 *Unit cost US$50 million
*



*
*Airbus A400M Atlas* Unit cost €152.4m
*



Antonov An-70* Unit cost US$ 50–55 million
60–70 million (export)
*



*
*Xian Y-20* cost unknown

give opinion which will be suitable for PAF in future

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

nomi007 said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> Embraer KC-390 *Unit cost US$50 million
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Airbus A400M Atlas* Unit cost €152.4m
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Antonov An-70* Unit cost US$ 50–55 million
> 60–70 million (export)
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Xian Y-20* cost unknown
> 
> give opinion which will be suitable for PAF in future


we have no money for these and our PAF is working to upgrade and doing well with C-130s its matter of 10 more years relax boss



black-hawk_101 said:


> Nice. All load in a single phase.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan can also buy RSAF C-130s too.
> 
> Also tell any chances of PAF getting 47-50 AC-130s from USA with upgrades?



saudi C-130 are being badly used unless you have no way they are not good option


47 -50 c-130s ? are you joking ? since last 45 years we collected 20

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## nomi007

Imran Khan said:


> we have no money for these and our PAF is working to upgrade and doing well with C-130s its matter of 10 more years relax boss
> 
> 
> 
> saudi C-130 are being badly used unless you have no way they are not good option
> 
> 
> 47 -50 c-130s ? are you joking ? since last 45 years we collected 20


always negative thinking


----------



## Imran Khan

nomi007 said:


> always negative thinking


better then always day dreaming . accept the reality and face it can be win a war . otherwise 7th fleet is still on the way since 1971.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bossman

Imran Khan said:


> better then always day dreaming . accept the reality and face it can be win a war . otherwise 7th fleet is still on the way since 1971.



It is OK to be negative but only losers force their negativity to others. I have never a met a successful person or read about one who was inherently negative. Projecting or forcing one's negative experiences and attitudes to others, does not make one look wise, smart or experienced. Also don't confuse optimism with delusions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Bossman said:


> It is OK to be negative but only losers force their negativity to others. I have never a met a successful person or read about one who was inherently negative. Projecting or forcing one's negative experiences and attitudes to others, does not make one look wise, smart or experienced. Also don't confuse optimism with delusions.


they are asking 40-50 c-130s from USA reserves , you know what its mean ? a pure BS day dream .last time it was very sweet relation USA handed over us 4 C-130s that is all .now tell me whom is looser. i challenge pakistan will never have 50 heavy transport plane in future 20 years . even india buy very few numbers of c-130Js and c-17s . i am not forcing my negative thoughts i am just showing them mirror of reality .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17

Imran Khan said:


> they are asking 40-50 c-130s from USA reserves , you know what its mean ? a pure BS day dream .last time it was very sweet relation USA handed over us 4 C-130s that is all .now tell me whom is looser. i challenge pakistan will never have 50 heavy transport plane in future 20 years . even india buy very few numbers of c-130Js and c-17s . i am not forcing my negative thoughts i am just showing them mirror of reality .


 
mitti pao yar jee

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Suhana Khalid

fatman17 said:


> jee bilkul but we dont know what happened further.


Allah **** sun khira kary gay.. Ameen , InshAllah

Jo hai unko hei theek kar lo... aur unni sy hei kam laty raho...


----------



## Bossman

Imran Khan said:


> they are asking 40-50 c-130s from USA reserves , you know what its mean ? a pure BS day dream .last time it was very sweet relation USA handed over us 4 C-130s that is all .now tell me whom is looser. i challenge pakistan will never have 50 heavy transport plane in future 20 years . even india buy very few numbers of c-130Js and c-17s . i am not forcing my negative thoughts i am just showing them mirror of reality .



First of all I did not call personally call you a loser. I associated particular type of negativity with losers. Further except for kids like Nishan and his many reincarnations, the folks on the forums have a pretty realistic view of things. Also I don't understand why it was necessary to bring the issue of USN aircraft carrier in 71 to the discussion. That part of history seems to have scarred you for life, most sensible people at that time never thought it was a realistic option.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## araz

Imran and Bossman.
Pleaze guys lets move on. We havd enough things to argue about. 47-50 C130s are unnecessary unless one can transform a few into air tanks. But let us leave it at that.
Move on people.
Wasalam
Araz

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## arslanbilwani

There should be more advancement in PAF transport

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> mitti pao yar jee



pa diti janab  4 trolliyan bher ke 




araz said:


> Imran and Bossman.
> Pleaze guys lets move on. We havd enough things to argue about. 47-50 C130s are unnecessary unless one can transform a few into air tanks. But let us leave it at that.
> Move on people.
> Wasalam
> Araz


ok boss i am out clean bold or koi humkum


----------



## araz

Imran Khan said:


> pa diti janab  4 trolliyan bher ke
> 
> 
> 
> ok boss i am out clean bold or koi humkum


Yara. Life is too short for all this fighting and argument. Good that you see it that way tòo.
jeeunda raiween putr 
Wasalam
Araz

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 145053


 
whats the occasion?


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

fatman17 said:


> whats the occasion?


returning from karachi after 25 dec


----------



## fatman17

Ulta Tv said:


> Its been done before if I'm correct.


 
done what......




poor man's C-130 (Y-9)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Suhana Khalid

I salute you... Pakistan Air Force,,, !!!


----------



## fatman17

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 146502


 
that C-130 s/n 189 looks old.....


----------



## nomi007

Hawker 400
with Callsign 'Eye77' is believed to be special mission aircraft of ISI. The aircraft wears private markings and is mainly used for international flights across the globe.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Donatello

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 154317
> Hawker 400
> with Callsign 'Eye77' is believed to be special mission aircraft of ISI. The aircraft wears private markings and is mainly used for international flights across the globe.



What's the story behind this?
@fatman17 @Oscar @Dazzler


----------



## SQ8

Donatello said:


> What's the story behind this?
> @fatman17 @Oscar @Dazzler



No story. The aircraft is a hawker XP 4000 registered with the Ministry of Defence. The serial is unusual but at the same time it could just be a transport for quick flights that avoid the usual surveillance.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Donatello

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 154518



My transport baby 

Was teeing off at Karsaz some years back, when one of these beasts went above our heads and deafened the shyt out of everyone. From that day, i always respect her.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Xeric



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

Xeric said:


> View attachment 159354


 
some 'rivets' missing on this herky...


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 154844



Did you know...
the four CN235M-220s purchased in 2002 can be retro fitted for the Overland/Maritime Surveillance Patrol role with the Thales Ocean Master 400 if the PAF so desires.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reddawn

Makes you wonder why the PN never went with the CN235 over the ATR 72s for the sake of commonality.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Reddawn said:


> Makes you wonder why the PN never went with the CN235 over the ATR 72s for the sake of commonality.



Good point

Any updates on the C130 upgrade program?


----------



## IrbiS

Reddawn said:


> Makes you wonder why the PN never went with the CN235 over the ATR 72s for the sake of commonality.


They are cheaper than 235 being only used for transport. Though 235/295 would've been better if navy has plans for additional MPA, surveillance or intelligence platforms.



fatman17 said:


> Did you know...
> the four CN235M-220s purchased in 2002 can be retro fitted for the Overland/Maritime Surveillance Patrol role with the Thales Ocean Master 400 if the PAF so desires.


They also offer equipment for desired role in pallets form so you can configure the aircraft for special mission or used for cargo/transport when needed. Electronic/communication surveillance role should be considered by PAF but, what about an AC-130 like gunship? terrorists would love it!


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reddawn

fatman17 said:


> Good point
> 
> Any updates on the C130 upgrade program?




Not aware of the status of recent upgrades apart from the initial glass cockpit and structural upgrades.



Umair Khan Niazi said:


> They are cheaper than 235 being only used for transport. Though 235/295 would've been better if navy has plans for additional MPA, surveillance or intelligence platforms.
> 
> 
> They also offer equipment for desired role in pallets form so you can configure the aircraft for special mission or used for cargo/transport when needed. Electronic/communication surveillance role should be considered by PAF but, what about an AC-130 like gunship? terrorists would love it!



Acquiring them second hand definitely made the sticker price cheaper than the Cn235 new build and the plus point is that PIA are operating the type but a commercial/military logistic supply chain partnership has its risk. The commercial entity can walk away anytime they want whereas the military entity rarely has that luxury.


----------



## hassan1

saab 2000

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## nomi007

Pakistan Air Force plane lands in India for refueling
A Pakistan Air Force aircraft, with five military personnel on board, was allowed to land at the airport here for refuelling last afternoon, official sources said on Monday.
A Pakistan Air Force aircraft, with five military personnel on board, was allowed to land at the airport here for refuelling last afternoon, official sources said on Monday.

The aircraft, which had taken off from Rawalpindi, was allowed by the Indian Air Force to land at the Chowdhury Charan Singh Airport here for refuelling, they said, adding that it took off for the Bangladesh port city of Chittagong after about 50 minutes.

"There was no emergency. There was a Pakistani aircraft movement, that is PAAF-854 from Rawalpindi to Lucknow (which) landed at 1201 hours yesterday and departed for Chittagong at 1252 hours," District Magistrate Rajshekhar said when asked about the landing.

He said the Indian Air Force had cleared it for landing as it was a Pakistan Air force flight.

To questions, Airport Director S C Hota told PTI said it was a "technical landing" and added that soon after refuelling, the plane left for its final destination at the major port city of Bangladesh.

He said there were five military personnel on board the flight. However, the type of the aircraft or what it was carrying could not be ascertained.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zeeshanvita

nomi007 said:


> Pakistan Air Force plane lands in India for refueling
> A Pakistan Air Force aircraft, with five military personnel on board, was allowed to land at the airport here for refuelling last afternoon, official sources said on Monday.
> A Pakistan Air Force aircraft, with five military personnel on board, was allowed to land at the airport here for refuelling last afternoon, official sources said on Monday.
> 
> The aircraft, which had taken off from Rawalpindi, was allowed by the Indian Air Force to land at the Chowdhury Charan Singh Airport here for refuelling, they said, adding that it took off for the Bangladesh port city of Chittagong after about 50 minutes.
> 
> "There was no emergency. There was a Pakistani aircraft movement, that is PAAF-854 from Rawalpindi to Lucknow (which) landed at 1201 hours yesterday and departed for Chittagong at 1252 hours," District Magistrate Rajshekhar said when asked about the landing.
> 
> He said the Indian Air Force had cleared it for landing as it was a Pakistan Air force flight.
> 
> To questions, Airport Director S C Hota told PTI said it was a "technical landing" and added that soon after refuelling, the plane left for its final destination at the major port city of Bangladesh.
> 
> He said there were five military personnel on board the flight. However, the type of the aircraft or what it was carrying could not be ascertained.



I did not knew they still refuel in Lacknow. I remember my father use to tell me that his uncle in 50s use to land in lacknow for refueling while going to Dhaka..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## razgriz19

fatman17 said:


> some 'rivets' missing on this herky...


where do you see that?
if you meant those holes right by the battery compartment then those are for jacking up the aircraft..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

*Star SAFIRE III EO/IR sensors* employed by PAF and PA on C-130 a/c, Bell-412 & Mi-17 helicopters for tactical recon & assault missions against terrorists.




These sensors provide true all day and all night imaging capability in multiple wavebands. They also point out distant targets to friendly forces, and determine target distance and location.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=917834714928573





*star SAFIRE III Features*

Multi-mission capable
High-resolution color spotter scope
Matched multi-FOV optics
Image intensified low-light camera
Image blending
Reliable 24/7 operation
Optimized usability
Multiple laser payloads
Maintain Star SAFIRE family compatibility
Commercially developed, MIL qualified
*Benefits*

Can be used in applications as diverse as land force protection, shipboard open ocean and littoral patrol, and long range airborne reconnaissance
Extends identification range performance by providing maximum detail from covert stand-off distances
All cameras feature multiple FOVs maintaining situational awareness while also achieving long range performance and enabling Image Blending
Brings true all day and all night imaging capability in multiple wavebands, and forms the basis for image blending
Combine critical spectral information from IR imager with image intensified low-light camera or long range spotter scope
High MTBF and proven combat survivability in demanding arctic and desert environments
View and track ground locations using the fully-embedded IMU; follow moving targets with the multi-mode Autotracker
Covertly illuminate wide areas, point out distant targets to other forces, and determine target distance and location
Total cable compatibility allows operators to upgrade existing Star SAFIRE family installations with plug-and-play simplicity
All-weather design is qualified to the most demanding requirements of MIL-STD-810 and 461

*StarSAFIRE III / HD (AN/AAQ-21/22)*
*FLIR Systems / USA*



An advanced multi-sensor EO payload from the USA is the FLIR Systems StarSAFIRE. The StarSAFIRE III version is the most advanced, some 800 are used on 35 reconnaissance and surveillance platforms. StarSAFIRE uses five axis stabilization and high power optics, including Super Narrow field of view, to support operation at extended range. The payload can be configured with 6 (SAFIRE III) or 7 (SAFIRE HD) sensors including 3rd Generation FLIR, CCDTV with haze penetration filters, I2CCD, color spotter scope, laser pointer and illuminator, and laser rangefinder. 









The Star SAFIRE HD system uses a 1,500 mm focal length for mid-wave IR and coaxial “two-in-one” telescope for the visible wavelengths sensors. The system facilitates high precision geo-pointing, directing the payload to look at exact geographic coordinates. Feeds from multiple sensors can be fused into a single image, to obtain optimal contrast and presentation of hidden details, generating up to x3 more information compared to conventional NTSC systems. Multiple video feeds from the different sensors can be transmitted simultaneously over a single datalink for further processing, storage and display. The system carries both wide-area and narrow-beam covert laser illuminators to support covert scene illumination and target pointing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Boeing still waiting for customer who is interested in five C-17 white-tail platforms (fully built but unsold) which are ready for delivery 
pakistan also try to discuss

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Super Falcon

Y 20 is also a good option for airforce

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

nomi007 said:


> Boeing still waiting for customer who is interested in five C-17 white-tail platforms (fully built but unsold) which are ready for delivery
> pakistan also try to discuss


With some saudi injection it is possible we need heavy lift .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

The Herks are being upgraded and will be good for another 10 to 15 years

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VelocuR

Pakistan maybe can try to secure deal with Russia.

Tu-95 Bomber Bear

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

Super Falcon said:


> Y 20 is also a good option for airforce





mingle said:


> With some saudi injection it is possible we need heavy lift .


boeing c-17 are just ready
pakistan request saudis for funding 

y-20 is good but available after 2020

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Super Falcon

Bear Russia won't sell and we don't need it also but TO is one of feared cold war machines capable Web of delivering heavy payload of nuke

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

VelocuR said:


> Pakistan maybe can try to secure deal with Russia.
> 
> Tu-95 Bomber Bear


no need

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

At ankara airport


----------



## fatman17

Finals at Istanbul airport


----------



## fatman17

Unmarked AN12 is a familiar sight at Pakistani airports


----------



## fatman17

Finals at Rome Italy


----------



## TOPGUN

fatman17 said:


> Unmarked AN12 is a familiar sight at Pakistani airports



Do we know who are on these flights ?


----------



## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> Do we know who are on these flights ?



Some one mentioned it's leased by TCS. I'm not sure about it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> boeing c-17 are just ready
> pakistan request saudis for funding
> 
> y-20 is good but available after 2020



Let's be reasonable here.


----------



## ghazi52

fatman17 said:


> Let's be reasonable here.



We should...............


----------



## black-hawk_101

Though it was possible in the past that PAF could have gone for:
10-12 CN-235 with local assembly
10-12 IL-78 Midas
16+ex-Australian C-130s
I am sure such fleet would be an awesome addition.


----------



## fatman17

No 6 Squadron Antelopes

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

In Sri Lanka


----------



## Quwa

The PAF needs to begin thinking about what it will do as its C-130 airframes near the end of their lifecycles. New Hercules aircraft are not going to be cheap, so it may be prudent to take a look at other next-generation options, e.g. the Embraer KC-390 and Antanov An-178. The An-178 may be the better option in terms of pursuing a more affordable and sanction-proof platform, it may even be something the PAF can use to build out the mainstay of its tactical airlift fleet.


----------



## fatman17

Mark Sien said:


> The PAF needs to begin thinking about what it will do as its C-130 airframes near the end of their lifecycles. New Hercules aircraft are not going to be cheap, so it may be prudent to take a look at other next-generation options, e.g. the Embraer KC-390 and Antanov An-178. The An-178 may be the better option in terms of pursuing a more affordable and sanction-proof platform, it may even be something the PAF can use to build out the mainstay of its tactical airlift fleet.



How about CJ 27


----------



## fatman17

The 75 million upgrade of the airframes on 6 C130s will give them a life extension of 15 years or so

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

fatman17 said:


> The 75 million upgrade of the airframes on 6 C130s will give them a life extension of 15 years or so



6 will get upgrade and what is about the rest of the fleet ?


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> How about CJ 27


 Much better option then the two mentioned earlier, those are jet powered planes while PA and PAF will look for a propeller plane to replace its fleet of prpeller C-130 for medium lift transport facility.
The CJ 27 is a good option but keeping in view our usual choice in these matters, Y-9 seems a more likely choice. Also considering the fact that Y-9 have load carrying capability that more then matches the Super Hercules (24 ton to 25ton compared to 19 ton of C-130) where as CJ 27 have only have half that transport capability. even a electronic systems upgraded Y-8 will be a better option (will also give platform similarity with the already operation ZDK-03 AWACS) and have equal load carrying capability compared to the best of C-130s!


----------



## Quwa

fatman17 said:


> How about CJ 27


If there were a list of possible C-130 successors in the PAF, the C-27J would probably be on it. The only drawback would be the fact that it is a Western aircraft, and although not American, the possibility of sanctions is still there. The An-178 would be a much safer bet than the C-27J and KC-390.


----------



## fatman17

Ulla said:


> 6 will get upgrade and what is about the rest of the fleet ?



6 from Australia already refurbished. That leaves 4 to be upgraded.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Mark Sien said:


> If there were a list of possible C-130 successors in the PAF, the C-27J would probably be on it. The only drawback would be the fact that it is a Western aircraft, and although not American, the possibility of sanctions is still there. The An-178 would be a much safer bet than the C-27J and KC-390.



The most likely option would be C130H from EDA stocks or the IL78 with the new powerplant.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Arsalan

Mark Sien said:


> If there were a list of possible C-130 successors in the PAF, the C-27J would probably be on it. The only drawback would be the fact that it is a Western aircraft, and although not American, the possibility of sanctions is still there. The An-178 would be a much safer bet than the C-27J and KC-390.



Apart from being "western" it seriously lack payload capability. The load carrying capability of C-27 is half then that of a C-130. C-130 with about 20ton capacity fits in nicely between the medium/lower life aircraft and heavier transport aircraft. I will again say that the Y-8 and Y-9 with appx 22 - 25ton capacity will be the most probable replacement. It is not that we will be operating different aircraft for 10ton, different for 20 and then different one for heavier loads. The 25 ton marks sits nicely between the low/medium capacity and heavy load capability and that is what PA/PAF will look for. The heavy strategic lifting role will then be the job of IL-78 and we may go for a few (3-5 platforms IF required and WHEN funds allow). Anyway that il-76 part is not significant, the thing is PAF/PA will look for an aircraft with similar load carrying capability to C-130s. Also keep in mind that the current fleet of C-130 is here to stay for some years (is being refurbished)


----------



## Imran Khan

yesterday i seen one of C-130 wings were being kept in front of chaklala c-130 upgrade hanger and rest of c-130 was inside hanger visible

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## niaz

C-130 in its various versions is still the best medium lift aircraft in the world. Now even India has a fleet of 12 C-130J’s. Brother of a close friend of mine (ex- F-86 pilot of the 65 war) due to some medical problem was later transferred to Hercs; according to him PAF loved the ruggedness & versatility of the C-130.

PAF has extensive experience with this aircraft. Understand there are 18 C-130’s in service and in my opinion; instead of replacing with a new medium transport aircraft; we should try to keep up the same number in flying condition.

Because its has been in service for more than 50 years, there are plenty of 2nd hand C-130’s available. Following the example of Mirages, PAF could continue buying used C-130 from wherever the same are available and have these either refurbished and / or cannibalised for the spare parts. Current PAF C-130’; if properly maintained and updated with modern avionics; could easily serve PAF needs for say another 10 to 15 years. By then used C-130K’s & C-130 J’s would become available.

C-130 has been in PAF service since 1960, wouldn’t be surprised if continues for another 25 years in one form or another.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Great One (Mod ver)

niaz said:


> C-130 in its various versions is still the best medium lift aircraft in the world. Now even India has a fleet of 12 C-130J’s. Brother of a close friend of mine (ex- F-86 pilot of the 65 war) due to some medical problem was later transferred to Hercs; according to him PAF loved the ruggedness & versatility of the C-130.
> 
> PAF has extensive experience with this aircraft. Understand there are 18 C-130’s in service and in my opinion; instead of replacing with a new medium transport aircraft; we should try to keep up the same number in flying condition.
> 
> Because its has been in service for more than 50 years, there are plenty of 2nd hand C-130’s available. Following the example of Mirages, PAF could continue buying used C-130 from wherever the same are available and have these either refurbished and / or cannibalised for the spare parts. Current PAF C-130’; if properly maintained and updated with modern avionics; could easily serve PAF needs for say another 10 to 15 years. By then used C-130K’s & C-130 J’s would become available.
> 
> C-130 has been in PAF service since 1960, wouldn’t be surprised if continues for another 25 years in one form or another.


USAF is in the process of shaving off 58 excess C-130's. And even then they'll end up with 52 more than DoD's requirements, so I think there'd be plenty of C-130's in the 2nd hand market.


----------



## black-hawk_101

PAF can buy ex-austrailian C-130s and may be the remaining P-3Cs as well.


----------



## fatman17

MRTT


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> MRTT



it went for summer vacation to some cold place? 
the picture look quite old, cannot think of a place with snow these days where the plane need to be right now.


----------



## fatman17

Arsalan said:


> it went for summer vacation to some cold place?
> the picture look quite old, cannot think of a place with snow these days where the plane need to be right now.



Ukraine a few yrs ago


----------



## monitor

*Update: KC-390 airlifter makes maiden flight*
*Gareth Jennings, London* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
04 February 2015




An infographic showing how the KC-390 compares with its closest competitors. Source: IHS
The Embraer KC-390 transport aircraft made its maiden flight from the company's Gavião Peixoto production facility, north of São Paulo, on 3 February.

The flight of the first of two prototype platforms lasted for 1 hour and 25 minutes, during which time the crew evaluated the twin jet's handling characteristics and performance.

With the first flight now completed, the company will work to prepare the second prototype for trials in the coming weeks. Certification of the 'green' aircraft is expected at the end of 2015, with the final operational clearance set for mid-2016.

The KC-390 is billed as being able to carry 23 tonnes (or a concentrated maximum payload of 26 tonnes over the centre of gravity) at 470 kt (Mach 0.8) out to 1,300 n miles. A typical payload would include 80 regular troops or 64 paratroopers, or three Humvee-sized vehicles or a single Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk utility helicopter. The ramp, which is longer than that of most aircraft of its class in order to ease access for vehicles, is limited to 4.5 tonnes.

In addition to its baseline cargo/troop transport configuration, the KC-390 will be equipped to perform aerial refuelling and will have provisions for an electro-optic/infrared pod for a secondary search-and-rescue role.

Although billed as a competitor to the Lockheed Martin C-130J Hercules (22 tonnes payload), the KC-390's other primary competitors include the Antonov An-70 (47 tonnes) and Airbus Military A400M Atlas (37 tonnes).

The Brazilian Air Force has ordered 28 KC-390 aircraft (plus the two prototypes, which will be refurbished after trials are complete), with production set to run through to 2023. Embraer has also received letters of intent from Colombia (12 aircraft), Argentina (6), Chile (6), Portugal (6), and the Czech Republic (2).

_This story, first published on 4 January, has been updated with an infographic_

*COMMENT*
The first flight of the KC-390 was originally billed to have taken place in late 2014. With the development and production schedule being so tight, programme officials will be especially relieved to have got this major milestone under their belt.

Although Embraer has 30 firm orders for the Brazilian Air Force, it currently only has letters of intent for the 32 export aircraft. The C-130J-30 is already operationally proven and ready for delivery and, while the A400M programme has been experiencing some delivery delays of its own lately, that platform too is ready for fielding. While production of the An-70 has been approved, poor relations between the partner nations of Ukraine and Russia will almost certainly have a detrimental effect on that programme.

Embraer, therefore, needs to complete trials and get the KC-390 into serial production at the earliest opportunity if it is not to lose too much ground to its competitors in the global race for sales. That said, interest in the Brazilian airlifter is high, with high-ranking military and political representatives from 32 countries attending the official roll-out ceremony in October 2014.





The first of the two prototype KC-390 transport aircraft departs Embraer's Gavi&amp;[HASHTAG]#227[/HASHTAG];o Peixoto production facility on its maiden flight. (Embraer)



(487 words)


----------



## Imran Khan

nothing to do with us man

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## nomi007

*



*
*Lockheed C-130E Hercules*
Manufacturer:
Lockheed
Type/Model:
C-130 Hercules
Registration:
4180
Colour Scheme:
Pakistan - Air Force
Location:
Paris - Le Bourget, France
Taken By:
Paul Marais-Hayer
Date Taken:
10th June 2015
Image ID:
223048


----------



## Reddawn

Rafi do you know which transport planes the Chinese presented to the ACM? Are there any plans to introduce the Z20 to replace the Mi17 and Puma fleets?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Reddawn said:


> Rafi do you know which transport planes the Chinese presented to the ACM? Are there any plans to introduce the Z20 to replace the Mi17 and Puma fleets?


I like Z20 heli looks like black hawk very sleek and beautiful we should think for her to replace aging puma and Mi 17 .


----------



## fatman17

mingle said:


> I like Z20 heli looks like black hawk very sleek and beautiful we should think for her to replace aging puma and Mi 17 .



It's still a prototype


----------



## mingle

fatman17 said:


> It's still a prototype


Sir fatman then what r viable options r?more Mi 17 to replace pumas ?


----------



## fatman17

mingle said:


> Sir fatman then what r viable options r?more Mi 17 to replace pumas ?



At this stage Mi 17s and refurbished Pumas seem to be the most cost effective options for medium military transport helos. Another option could be the Boeing CH47F as the company is looking for more FMS sales. The price would be the stumbling block. The Chinook worked admirably during the Kashmir earthquake.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Cockpit

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

New LM 100 at Paris AS


----------



## niaz

Chinook helicopter at $38 –million a piece costs twice as much as an MI 17. Besides, for Pakistan’s weather conditions MI 17 is the optimum medium lift helo. Even the US army purchased 30 M1-17 helos for deployment in Afghanistan.

U.S. Army to buy 30 Russian Mi-17 helicopters for use in high, hot areas of Afghanistan - Military & Aerospace Electronics


----------



## fatman17

niaz said:


> Chinook helicopter at $38 –million a piece costs twice as much as an MI 17. Besides, for Pakistan’s weather conditions MI 17 is the optimum medium lift helo. Even the US army purchased 30 M1-17 helos for deployment in Afghanistan.
> 
> U.S. Army to buy 30 Russian Mi-17 helicopters for use in high, hot areas of Afghanistan - Military & Aerospace Electronics



I'm not in disagreement sir.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Super Falcon

Bhaijan we are not only in afghanistan we have areas like gilgit saichen and gwadar like areas we can use these heavylifters as rescue machine during floods and earthquakes and with development of gwadar and chinese interest in gwadar we might need carry heavy payloads from port to port they are multi mission heavy artilery from plain areas of punjab can be carry with ease so dont stuck ur self till afghanistan


----------



## mingle

fatman17 said:


> At this stage Mi 17s and refurbished Pumas seem to be the most cost effective options for medium military transport helos. Another option could be the Boeing CH47F as the company is looking for more FMS sales. The price would be the stumbling block. The Chinook worked admirably during the Kashmir earthquake.


Fatman sir I think if we pitch Boeing good numbers of Helis for sure price will come down & I agree with they looking more clients Boeing is big trouble not too many clients for military hardware .


----------



## fatman17

mingle said:


> Fatman sir I think if we pitch Boeing good numbers of Helis for sure price will come down & I agree with they looking more clients Boeing is big trouble not too many clients for military hardware .



EDA CH47D/E are available which would suit us with an refurbishment.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

What is this?


----------



## third eye

fatman17 said:


> What is this?



Douglas A-26 Invader


----------



## fatman17

Article

Pakistan C-130B Upgrade May Soon Get Underway 

Malaysia-based aircraft maintenance company Airod will carry out the upgrade program of Pakistan’s C-130 transport aircraft fleet, an official says...

Mar. 19, 2015 | Login

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## araz

fatman17 said:


> Article
> 
> Pakistan C-130B Upgrade May Soon Get Underway
> 
> Malaysia-based aircraft maintenance company Airod will carry out the upgrade program of Pakistan’s C-130 transport aircraft fleet, an official says...
> 
> Mar. 19, 2015 | Login


Sir 
Do you know what the upgrade involves?
Araz


----------



## fatman17

araz said:


> Sir
> Do you know what the upgrade involves?
> Araz



From what I remember. 
1. Structural upgrade esp the wings. 
2. Glass cockpit 
3. Engine overhaul. I think.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Life enhancement of 10 years


----------



## niaz

Came across the following news item about a month back. There should be quite a few C-130H retired from USAF active fleet.

USAF study: C-130 fleet too big, cuts needed to modernize

Wonder if PAF has considered retiring its C-130B fleet and replacing the same with 2nd hand C-130H’s as an option?


----------



## Imran Khan

niaz said:


> Came across the following news item about a month back. There should be quite a few C-130H retired from USAF active fleet.
> 
> USAF study: C-130 fleet too big, cuts needed to modernize
> 
> Wonder if PAF has considered retiring its C-130B fleet and replacing the same with 2nd hand C-130H’s as an option?


 sir jee can't we buy anything new ? for long time ? kab tak time pass kary gay ?


----------



## Narendra Damodar Modi

Imran Khan said:


> sir jee can't we buy anything new ? for long time ? kab tak time pass kary gay ?


Imran jee, aap ke swiss account me se 2/3 billion $$ PAF ko de do. Khaarid lenge naye plane.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## niaz

Imran Khan said:


> sir jee can't we buy anything new ? for long time ? kab tak time pass kary gay ?


 

Of course new one would be preferable if PAF could afford the same. My comment relates to extending life of C-130B versus used C-130H which is hell of lot more modern. 

There may not be that much of a cost difference. Only question would be if USA would be willing to make these available. I was therefore wondering if PAF planners had looked into this option before committing to modernizing C-10B fleet.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

niaz said:


> Of course new one would be preferable if PAF could afford the same. My comment relates to extending life of C-130B versus used C-130H which is hell of lot more modern.
> 
> There may not be that much of a cost difference. Only question would be if USA would be willing to make these available. I was therefore wondering if PAF planners had looked into this option before committing to modernizing C-10B fleet.


 sir if it was need and US allow it AMRAAC is full of C-130 and we will have done it like P3-C since long time

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Imran Khan said:


> sir if it was need and US allow it AMRAAC is full of C-130 and we will have done it like P3-C since long time



Imran bhai next defence mtg mai mang lai gay

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> Imran bhai next defence mtg mai mang lai gay


sir i think PAF dont need more 18 is a big number after all maintain and operate them

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

China's Y20 transport makes progress. 

China’s new Y-20 cargo aircraft is reportedly set to undergo high-altitude testing above the Yunnan-Guizhou Plateau. The transporter has previously undergone cold weather testing , with China showing off a prototype of the new aircraft at the Zhuhai Airshow last November.


----------



## bilalshaw

Pakistan must upgrade its C-130 fleet with better engines and avionics. We have the very basic and old models.


----------



## fatman17

bilalshaw said:


> Pakistan must upgrade its C-130 fleet with better engines and avionics. We have the very basic and old models.



We have and are


----------



## Imran Khan

bilalshaw said:


> Pakistan must upgrade its C-130 fleet with better engines and avionics. We have the very basic and old models.


job done we have now C-130H you know sir meaning of H ?


----------



## Mughal-Prince

fatman17 said:


> Cockpit



Great Sir Jee is this a Pakistani hercules if yes where it has been modified ?? I mean Local, LM or some other contractor.


----------



## bilalshaw

Imran Khan said:


> job done we have now C-130H you know sir meaning of H ?



Really sir? Didn't know we had C-130Hs. If its true then probably my argument is invalid.


----------



## fatman17

C130 crash kills 113 on board in Indonesia today belonging to the indonesian air force


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> C130 crash kills 113 on board in Indonesia today belonging to the indonesian air force


 i was thinking its CN-235 damn . so sad boss


----------



## fatman17

bilalshaw said:


> Really sir? Didn't know we had C-130Hs. If its true then probably my argument is invalid.



Upgraded to H standard


----------



## fatman17

We. CDR Alvi car with a B57 wheel


----------



## fatman17

Para drop

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

C130 at a FOB


----------



## fatman17

HU16 Albatross


----------



## fatman17

C130 transport at Anatolian Eagle


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice pic


----------



## fatman17

PAF Mi17


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

fatman17 said:


> Upgraded to H standard



We have C130B and E. Aircraft is of a particular model due to its structure. We have heavily modified and upgrades our C130s but they remain B and E. However, I must say that Pakistani C130s are unique in the world, and in a configuration which no-body else has, and speaks highly of the technical prowess of the Transport operators and engineers.


----------



## fatman17

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> We have C130B and E. Aircraft is of a particular model due to its structure. We have heavily modified and upgrades our C130s but they remain B and E. However, I must say that Pakistani C130s are unique in the world, and in a configuration which no-body else has, and speaks highly of the technical prowess of the Transport operators and engineers.



Used the term standard. Obviously cannot convert them to actual H.


----------



## fatman17

Trident IIIE VIP aircraft


----------



## fatman17

Boeing 707 320C


----------



## Donatello

fatman17 said:


> Used the term standard. Obviously cannot convert them to actual H.



Glass cockpits i believe.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Donatello said:


> Glass cockpits i believe.


And other things


----------



## Basel

Why PAF & PN are not looking into An-70s?? Pakistan has good relations with Ukraine and also testing T-84 Oplot-Ms then why not test An-70s which may come with TOT and can be used in various roles too.

AN-70


----------



## Quwa

Basel said:


> Why PAF & PN are not looking into An-70s?? Pakistan has good relations with Ukraine and also testing T-84 Oplot-Ms then why not test An-70s which may come with TOT and can be used in various roles too.
> 
> AN-70


An-70 is a dead program, the Ukrainians are focusing their efforts on the An-178.


----------



## Basel

Mark Sien said:


> An-70 is a dead program, the Ukrainians are focusing their efforts on the An-178.



Its not dead because I have posted official link of the Antonov website which clearly shows this bird is available in market.

It can be opportunity for Pakistan to finance this project and get TOT of this bird, allowing its use in various mission profiles civilian & military.


----------



## fatman17

With Ukraine in a state of conflict, don't expect any war materials agreements in the near future.


----------



## Quwa

Basel said:


> Its not dead because I have posted official link of the Antonov website which clearly shows this bird is available in market.
> 
> It can be opportunity for Pakistan to finance this project and get TOT of this bird, allowing its use in various mission profiles civilian & military.


We'll see when the An-70 is inducted with the Ukrainian forces, but until then, I wouldn't count on it being a genuine option, much less a serious contender on the market. But in support of your point, the Ukrainian MoD ordered the An-70's production in January, let's hope for the best. An-70 looks promising.


----------



## Basel

Mark Sien said:


> We'll see when the An-70 is inducted with the Ukrainian forces, but until then, I wouldn't count on it being a genuine option, much less a serious contender on the market. But in support of your point, the Ukrainian MoD ordered the An-70's production in January, let's hope for the best. An-70 looks promising.



What I think is that it is an opportunity for Pakistan to get an advance plane with TOT which can be utilized for various mission profiles like MRTT, MPA, AWACS, civil use etc.


----------



## fatman17

AN70 medium transport


----------



## nomi007




----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Basel said:


> What I think is that it is an opportunity for Pakistan to get an advance plane with TOT which can be utilized for various mission profiles like MRTT, MPA, AWACS, civil use etc.


you forget that Pakistan is a ghareeb mulk? Our Transport Fleet is a well established Hercules shop. If they upgrade, it would be H models or J models, but not something from Russia/Ukraine.


----------



## khanboy007

@Donatello @fatman17 sir, what about the Ilyushin Il-78's....I heard they were pretty old ones when we got them...though they were advanced....are they expected to undergo any upgrades ??
---------------------------
on topic 

I personally think the Y-20 should be the future option...its massive


----------



## fatman17

khanboy007 said:


> @Donatello @fatman17 sir, what about the Ilyushin Il-78's....I heard they were pretty old ones when we got them...though they were advanced....are they expected to undergo any upgrades ??
> ---------------------------
> on topic
> 
> I personally think the Y-20 should be the future option...its massive



They need a engine and cockpit upgrade badly. They are restricted from landing at some foreign airports bcuz of noise pollution.


----------



## Basel

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> you forget that Pakistan is a ghareeb mulk? Our Transport Fleet is a well established Hercules shop. If they upgrade, it would be H models or J models, but not something from Russia/Ukraine.



Not necessarily bcoz of that was the case then why went for JF-17 with China and refused F-20 with TOT from USA in 80s.


----------



## Quwa

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> you forget that Pakistan is a ghareeb mulk? Our Transport Fleet is a well established Hercules shop. If they upgrade, it would be H models or J models, but not something from Russia/Ukraine.


It would have to be used, anything new (including C-130-J) would be cost prohibitive.


----------



## khanboy007

fatman17 said:


> They need a engine and cockpit upgrade badly. They are restricted from landing at some foreign airports bcuz of noise pollution.



exactly I read that the glass cockpits were underway...or they were being considered an option...I wasnt quite sure

no doubts i've heard the old engine on a youtube video....it is quite noisy !!!


----------



## Windjammer

*Instagram*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17

CN235 light transport

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

IL78 MRTT


----------



## fatman17

G450 takes off from Nur Khan AB

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

PAF Herk lands at Nur Khan AB


----------



## Rizwan231

Pakistani army is a great army


----------



## fatman17

Novel way of using a helo. Drying cricket pitch some time back


----------



## fatman17

C130 airdrop

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

F 27 400 transport


----------



## fatman17

Rarely seen talked about CN235 light transport in PAF service

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Challenger 605 in UK

Newly Delivered Pakistan Government Challenger 605 in UK

Posted on 5 August, 2015



Recently delivered Pakistan Government Challenger 605 EYE77 at London-Luton Airport, where it had arrived last night and departed again this morning. Westleigh Bushell

AN INTERESTING visitor to London-Luton Airport has been newly acquired Pakistan Government Bombardier Challenger 605 EYE77 (c/n 5955, ex C-GWQR). The aircraft arrived at the airport yesterday evening, August 4 from Ankara, Turkey, although the flight is thought to have originated in Islamabad.

It left Luton again this morning, July 5, heading back initially to Ankara again. The aircraft’s appearance in the UK was the first time it had been seen in service, the Canadian test registration having only been cancelled on June 19 following its sale to Pakistan.

As previously reported on AFD, the serial EYE77 was previously carried by a Hawker 4000, which was only in service for around 12 months before being disposed of in February 2014. It was one of two of the type acquired by Pakistan, although it is still unconfirmed whether the second one ever entered service.

It has never been positively confirmed what these mysterious aircraft were used for and it is unknown which Government department bought them. However, it is suspected that they were acquired for surveillance missions on behalf of Pakistan’s Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), which is the country’s primary national security and intelligence agency. It seems likely that the Challenger has been purchased for similar duties, although at present there is no sign externally of any specialised surveillance equipment. AFD-Dave Allport

Posted in News

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

PAF herks deliver relief goods to Nepal


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice pic


----------



## chinazun

New C130 for purchase


----------



## fatman17

chinazun said:


> New C130 for purchase



Not aware of


----------



## razgriz19

fatman17 said:


> Challenger 605 in UK
> 
> Newly Delivered Pakistan Government Challenger 605 in UK
> 
> Posted on 5 August, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> Recently delivered Pakistan Government Challenger 605 EYE77 at London-Luton Airport, where it had arrived last night and departed again this morning. Westleigh Bushell
> 
> AN INTERESTING visitor to London-Luton Airport has been newly acquired Pakistan Government Bombardier Challenger 605 EYE77 (c/n 5955, ex C-GWQR). The aircraft arrived at the airport yesterday evening, August 4 from Ankara, Turkey, although the flight is thought to have originated in Islamabad.
> 
> It left Luton again this morning, July 5, heading back initially to Ankara again. The aircraft’s appearance in the UK was the first time it had been seen in service, the Canadian test registration having only been cancelled on June 19 following its sale to Pakistan.
> 
> As previously reported on AFD, the serial EYE77 was previously carried by a Hawker 4000, which was only in service for around 12 months before being disposed of in February 2014. It was one of two of the type acquired by Pakistan, although it is still unconfirmed whether the second one ever entered service.
> 
> It has never been positively confirmed what these mysterious aircraft were used for and it is unknown which Government department bought them. However, it is suspected that they were acquired for surveillance missions on behalf of Pakistan’s Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), which is the country’s primary national security and intelligence agency. It seems likely that the Challenger has been purchased for similar duties, although at present there is no sign externally of any specialised surveillance equipment. AFD-Dave Allport
> 
> Posted in News



is it weird that I have been on this aircraft in Toronto :/
The company i worked for had a contract with the operator of this aircraft.


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 244854



And this is. ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HAIDER

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 244854


PIA ka jahaz lagta haa


----------



## fatman17

Looks like Y 12

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Harbin Y 12 light transport

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khanboy007

A video from the BIAS 2015 airshow _((FEATURING the Ilyushin IL-78))_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## doragames

I love Pakistan Air force and the their ....


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

PAF C130 landing at lejas azores with feathered propeller.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blue Marlin



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Blue Marlin said:


> View attachment 273489
> View attachment 273491
> View attachment 273492
> View attachment 273493



Only 3571 is B model, rest photo-graphhed are E models and not with SSIII mod.


----------



## hassan1




----------



## nomi007

* Lockheed L-100-382B-4C Hercules 
*

* This photo shows Lockheed L-100-382B-4C Hercules (AP-AUU) sporting PIA logo during a pre-delivery test flight in USA. Two brand new Lockheed L-100s - first one registered as AP-AUT and second one as AP-AUU - were operated by PIA for a very brief period of time after their delivery to the airline in 1966 and later same year these two transport aircraft were transferred to Pakistan Air Force (PAF). AP-AUT received serial# 64144 and and is still in service with PAF. AP-AUU received air force serial# 64145 but unfortunately met a tragic end when in 1968, during a supply mission attempt, it disintegrated in severe turbulence over Pakistan's Karakoram mountains region*





Pakistan International Airlines L-100 #AP-AUT is seen on the ramp at Lockheeds Marietta facility in 1966. [Photo by Lockheed Martin]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

The most successful transport aircraft

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## war&peace

Why don't PAF go for C5 Galaxy or similar aircrafts from Airbus and Antonov.


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

war&peace said:


> Why don't PAF go for C5 Galaxy or similar aircrafts from Airbus and Antonov.



Why doesnt PAF just buy space shuttles and start doing moon tourism from Rawalpindi, with easy connection from MetroBus?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Inception-06

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 273703




sooooooooooo amazing this picture, would you please so nice and give us some information about this plane in service with PAF ?


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

war&peace said:


> hey troll stfu


It was sarcasm, which apparently you don't understand. Kindly mind your language son.


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice pic

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> Just a nice pic


and this bird have sad end at muscut airport 3 years ago


----------



## fatman17

Imran Khan said:


> and this bird have sad end at muscut airport 3 years ago



What happened


----------



## fatman17

At Lahore airport


----------



## fatman17

PAF Mi17 on security detail

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Mi17 deputed for Rangers duty

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Mi17 on Presidential duty

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Military and civilian share lsld airport

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Pic no 2

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Asia Pacific

Pakistan’s C-130 fleet is set to get a series of upgrades with Rockwell Collins selected to carry out the work. The Pentagon awarded the company a $30 million contract to carry out the work including the design, manufacture, integration, training, provision of technical support during installation, and delivery of 11 C-130E model kits and five C-130B integrated avionics suites and kits to Pakistan. Furthermore, they are to develop, validate, and deliver consolidated B/E flight manual and associated checklists, and maintenance supplements required to operate, maintain, and sustain the PAF C-130 fleet. All work will be carried out in Islamabad, and will be completed by the end of 2020.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

The US Department of Defence (DoD) has selected Rockwell Collins as the prime contractor for the C-130 Hercules fleet upgrade and supply of associated equipment to Pakistan.

Under the terms of the $30m contract, the company will design, manufacture, integrate, train and deliver 11 C-130E model kits and five C-130B integrated avionics suites and kits to Pakistani Air Force (PAF).

The contract covers the development, validation, and delivery of consolidated B/E flight manual and associated checklists, as well as maintenance supplements.

Work under the contract will be carried out at PAF's Nur Khan Base, Islamabad.

Delivery under the contract is expected to be completed by late 2020.

The upgrade is expected to enable the continued operation of the PAF'S C-130 fleet for counter-insurgency / counter-terrorism flights, regional humanitarian operations, troop transport, and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) missions within Pakistan and in the region.

"Though the authorities have not yet disclosed details about the potential investors, local media reported that four companies expressed interest in the deal."

In 2014, Pakistan placed a request with the US for avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six of its C-130B/E aircraft.

The upgrades, estimated to cost $100m, were required for continued operation and effectiveness of the fleet, which is facing airworthiness and obsolescence issues.

The C-130 Hercules primarily performs intratheater portion of the airlift mission, and is capable of operating from rough, dirt strips. It paradrops troops and equipment into hostile areas.

Powered by four Allison AE2100D3 turboprop engines, the C-130 aircraft is designed to conduct airborne assault, search-and-rescue, scientific research support, weather reconnaissance and aerial refuelling, maritime patrol and aerial fire-fighting missions.

Image: US Air Force's C-130 aircraft. Photo: courtesy: USAF / Tech. Sgt. Brian E. Christiansen.


----------



## fatman17

Rockwell Collins to Upgrade Pakistan Air Force C-130B/E Avionics

Posted on 20 January, 2016

Pakistan Air Force C-130B Hercules 61-2646 from 6 Squadron ‘Antelopes’ takes off from its home base at Chaklala on March 24, 2007. Rockwell Collins was awarded a contract yesterday to upgrade the avionics on the PAF C-130B/E fleet. AFD-Alan Warnes

AN AVIONICS upgrade is to be undertaken on the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) C-130 Hercules fleet following the award of a contract to Rockwell Collins for the work. Under the $30,727,886 Foreign Military Sales deal, awarded to the company on January 15 through the US Air Force Life Cycle Management Center at Robins AFB, Georgia, the contractor will be responsible for design, manufacture, integration, training and providing technical support during installation.

This will involve delivery of eleven C-130E model kits and five C-130B integrated avionics suites and kits. Additionally, Rockwell Collins will develop, validate and deliver consolidated C-130B/E flight manual and associated checklists, plus the maintenance supplements required to operate, maintain and sustain the PAF C-130 fleet.

Work will be performed at PAF Base Nur Khan, Islamabad, Pakistan, and is expected to be complete by December 31, 2020. Nur Khan, previously known as Chaklala, but renamed on October 10, 2012, is the main PAF C-130B/E base, housing the aircraft of 6 Squadron ‘Antelopes’ as part of 35 (Composite Air Transport) Wing. The type is also flown by 21 Squadron ‘Pegasus’ at PAF Base Faisal, Karachi.

As previously reported on AFD, plans for the upgrade of the PAF C-130B/E fleet had initially been notified to US Congress by the US Defense Security Co-operation Agency (DSCA) on March 11, 2014. In addition to the avionics work, that notification also included plans for engine management and mechanical upgrades and cargo delivery system installation, together with outer wing replacement on six aircraft. This will be the subject of a separate contract. At the time, the DSCA gave an estimated total value for all of the avionics and other modernisation work as $100 million. AFD-Dave Allport


----------



## Cool_Soldier

Really good efforts to keep maintain older C130s


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Sulman Badshah



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cool_Soldier

Hmmm Nice Pics. Can C130s be used for A-A role?

I mean, can they fire A-A missiles?


----------



## monitor

Cool_Soldier said:


> Hmmm Nice Pics. Can C130s be used for A-A role?
> 
> I mean, can they fire A-A missiles?








Not sure but as they are already preforming as gunship with helfire firing capability firing a2a missile won't be imposible at least wvr missile..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 288556
> 
> The US Department of Defence (DoD) has selected Rockwell Collins as the prime contractor for the C-130 Hercules fleet upgrade and supply of associated equipment to Pakistan.
> 
> Under the terms of the $30m contract, the company will design, manufacture, integrate, train and deliver 11 C-130E model kits and five C-130B integrated avionics suites and kits to Pakistani Air Force (PAF).
> 
> The contract covers the development, validation, and delivery of consolidated B/E flight manual and associated checklists, as well as maintenance supplements.
> 
> Work under the contract will be carried out at PAF's Nur Khan Base, Islamabad.
> 
> Delivery under the contract is expected to be completed by late 2020.
> 
> The upgrade is expected to enable the continued operation of the PAF'S C-130 fleet for counter-insurgency / counter-terrorism flights, regional humanitarian operations, troop transport, and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) missions within Pakistan and in the region.
> 
> "Though the authorities have not yet disclosed details about the potential investors, local media reported that four companies expressed interest in the deal."
> 
> In 2014, Pakistan placed a request with the US for avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six of its C-130B/E aircraft.
> 
> The upgrades, estimated to cost $100m, were required for continued operation and effectiveness of the fleet, which is facing airworthiness and obsolescence issues.
> 
> The C-130 Hercules primarily performs intratheater portion of the airlift mission, and is capable of operating from rough, dirt strips. It paradrops troops and equipment into hostile areas.
> 
> Powered by four Allison AE2100D3 turboprop engines, the C-130 aircraft is designed to conduct airborne assault, search-and-rescue, scientific research support, weather reconnaissance and aerial refuelling, maritime patrol and aerial fire-fighting missions.
> 
> Image: US Air Force's C-130 aircraft. Photo: courtesy: USAF / Tech. Sgt. Brian E. Christiansen.


is paf trying to add new c-130j ?


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> is paf trying to add new c-130j ?



Nope


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## aziqbal

PAF has kept the units running but the C130 is just a brilliant designed aircraft 

First delivered in 1956 the USAF has just added a multi billion order for C130J to continue production 

That's 60 years of production, and still going strong amazing


----------



## fatman17

2500 C130s produced. The most successful military transport ever.


----------



## ghazi52

2500 is a big number..... great.


----------



## nomi007

Ukraine offers cargo planes include world's biggest cargo plane AN-225 with joint production to Pakistan.





Ukrainian Ambassador Volodymyr Lakomov on Sunday said that his government and companies were ready to cooperate with Pakistan in the defence sector with supply and joint production of the world-known cargo plane 
“*Antonov An-225”*, besides other areas.
Ukraine ready to boost defence ties with Pakistan: Envoy

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

C130 on night mission

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Idea 
PAF should transfer its CN235s to our navy and request 3- 4 additional C130H from EDA. The navy can convert the CN235S to Turkish Meltem MPA/ MSA as below.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Paksanity

fatman17 said:


> Idea
> PAF should transfer its CN235s to our navy and request 3- 4 additional C130H from EDA. The navy can convert the CN235S to Turkish Meltem MPA/ MSA as below.



Sounds good and practical. I wonder if we can lay our hands on J or have a few modified for AAR role.


----------



## araz

Paksanity said:


> Sounds good and practical. I wonder if we can lay our hands on J or have a few modified for AAR role.


If I remember the Js are quite expensive. We also need to look at how much the turkish upgrades would cost us. It is however a very good and practical idea. We can plea for those on account of natural calamity relief efforts to make it more palatable.
A


----------



## Paksanity

araz said:


> If I remember the Js are quite expensive. We also need to look at how much the turkish upgrades would cost us. It is however a very good and practical idea. We can plea for those on account of natural calamity relief efforts to make it more palatable.
> A



Yes, that is a good argument to forward. Pakistan is prone to frequent floods and earthquakes. C-130s are critical to humanitarian efforts. If you could recall that US senator's statement against F-16 sales; even he seemed open to idea subsidised deal of C130s with Pakistan. At least apparently. J surely is expensive but still less than half the price of other options like A400M. It may become a viable option down the line when some used ones become available. Still more C130H are good if can be had under EDA.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## niaz

Let us be realistic. Thus far only one AN-225 has been built by the Anotov design bureau which was passed on to Ukraine following the collapse of the Soviet Union. 2nd aircraft is only partially built and apparently needs $300-million to complete. Let also us not forget about cost of training the aircrew and maintenance crews & spare parts for the newly inducted aircraft.

A new C-130 costs about $60-million and a used one for about one tenth of the price. Brand new CN-235 is worth about $35-million. PAF already operates both these air crafts, hence no additional expense for training. Besides, does PAF need such a large transport aircraft and can we afford it?

This is just another ‘Flash in the pan’ and nothing more. Ukraine is only offering this because the power plant was designed by the Ivechenko Design Bureau of Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Quwa

Paksanity said:


> Sounds good and practical. I wonder if we can lay our hands on J or have a few modified for AAR role.


In all likelihood, if the PAF were to ever buy new transports, it will not buy them from the U.S. As mentioned above, not only are the C-130Js expensive, but direct alternatives, such as the Brazilian KC-390 or even Chinese and Russian alternatives, such as Y-30 and IL-214, respectively, can be had more affordably.


----------



## niaz

Quwa said:


> In all likelihood, if the PAF were to ever buy new transports, it will not buy them from the U.S. As mentioned above, not only are the C-130Js expensive, but direct alternatives, such as the Brazilian KC-390 or even Chinese and Russian alternatives, such as Y-30 and IL-214, respectively, can be had more affordably.




Arguably C-130 is the greatest and most flexible airplane ever built. Its versatility, operating life and safety record is unmatched. PAF received some of her C-130B’s during 1960s and still has 5C-130B’s its fleet. PAF even used its C130’s as bombers in the 1965 war.

PAF entire C-130 fleet used as bomber aircraft in 1965 war

Many C130B’s have logged as much as 3,500 flight hours and Royal Australian Airforce 36 squadron has accumulated 100, 000 accident free flying hours. Besides, why go for new C-130J.? You can pick up a refurbished used C-130E or C-130 H for under $20-million that will provide sturdy service for next 20 years.

PAF has more than 50 year’s experience in its operations. Nevertheless some Pakistanis hate the US so much that they would rather induct a brand new aircraft than go for additional C-130 !!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice pic


----------



## fatman17

PAF is in love with 2 systems 
1. F16 
2. C130

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Y20 to enter Chinese service in 2016 -17

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Anatov 224 is a lovely machine







Can carry tremendous load
Can transport 13-14 Tanks inside
Can move enough food to feed a nation (averting famine)

Just tremendous machine , you can even put a "AWAC radar" on top? and lovely command center inside the plane

I like the plane for its potential to move 100-200 Tanks in few trips between east and western borders


----------



## wowh550

Pakistan brothers forever

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Anatov 224 is a lovely machine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can carry tremendous load
> Can transport 13-14 Tanks inside
> Can move enough food to feed a nation (averting famine)
> 
> Just tremendous machine , you can even put a "AWAC radar" on top? and lovely command center inside the plane
> 
> I like the plane for its potential to move 100-200 Tanks in few trips between east and western borders



Too large for PAF requirements


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Time to have bigger ambitions

Who created these rules , that Pakistan Army cannot have new transport planes
Pakistan airforce cannot have more then 500 planes
Pakistan navy cannot have 30 frigates


----------



## litman

fatman17 said:


> PAF is in love with 2 systems
> 1. F16
> 2. C130


they both deserved to be loved.


----------



## Paksanity

fatman17 said:


> Too large for PAF requirements



Perhaps too large for any nation on planet earth. No wonder only one was ever made.


----------



## ghazi52

................................
Aerial view of Drigh road PAF station.







....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## volatile

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Time to have bigger ambitions
> 
> Who created these rules , that Pakistan Army cannot have new transport planes
> Pakistan airforce cannot have more then 500 planes
> Pakistan navy cannot have 30 frigates


Sir we are a pooor country ,we have roughly 50 mil without any thing .


----------



## khanasifm

Poor or third world ??? Strong economy first then spending

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khanasifm

Education health should come first

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

PAF IL78 MRTT on finals at Lejas

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Windjammer said:


>


ALL IN ONE


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## batool100

I love PAF , I realy want to jioin.


----------



## hassan1

c 130 & Phenom 100

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Time to have bigger ambitions
> 
> Who created these rules , that Pakistan Army cannot have new transport planes
> Pakistan airforce cannot have more then 500 planes
> Pakistan navy cannot have 30 frigates



army is not in the transport business.
inventory is based on budget, capacity and capability to maintain these assets.
PN never has had 30 FFG.


----------



## Arsalan

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Time to have bigger ambitions
> 
> Who created these rules , that Pakistan Army cannot have new transport planes
> Pakistan airforce cannot have more then 500 planes
> Pakistan navy cannot have 30 frigates


Our NEEDS created these RULES sir. Not to mentioned our financial position (which will be secondary in my opinion since we are talking numbers here and not quality)


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice picture

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cool_Soldier

Cool VIP plane.


----------



## fatman17

Passenger drone

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> Passenger drone


Well this may be a CGI, a concept illustrator but there surely is some work being done on silimar lines in reality as well.

This is reportedly China's first unmanned cargo drone.










There are SO many other concept images circulating around as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

C130 nose art

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

Re: Miscellaneous Pakistani Military Aircraft

PostTue Jun 14, 2016 4:08 pm

Fuselage of that Cessna 208B Grand Caravan has logo of Balochistan Police (balochistanpolice.gov.pk). Its serial number i.e. 1231 is derived from its construction number 208B-1231.

This aircraft was built in 2006 and registered in USA as N11116 for Cessna Aircraft Company. On February 28, 2007, registration N11116 was cancelled and the aircraft transferred to Pakistan.


----------



## fatman17

Two Y-20 Transport Aircraft

Chinese PLAAF Takes Delivery of First Two Y-20 Transport Aircraft

Posted on 16 June, 2016

Xian Y-20 prototype 783 being displayed at the Zhuhai Air Show on November 16, 2014. The first two Y-20s were handed over to the PLAAF yesterday and delivered today to the 4th Air (Transport) Division at Chengdu-Qionglai.

CHINA’S PEOPLE’S Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has taken delivery of the first operational Xian Y-20 strategic transport aircraft. Two of the type were handed over at the Xian factory yesterday, June 15. Both were then flown out today to Chengdu-Qionglai Air Base, near Sangyuan, to enter service with the 4th Air (Transport) Division. The first aircraft, 11051 ’01’, landed at Qionglai around 1200hrs local time, followed by the second shortly after 1700hrs.

The deliveries follow over three years of testing since the maiden flight of the first prototype, which took place on January 26, 2013. A total of five prototypes have been involved in flight testing, the fifth and most recent, ‘789’ having made its first flight on February 6 this year. It followed soon after the fourth prototype, ‘788’, which was first seen on January 23. The other three prototypes are 781, 783 and 785.

In 2014, the PLA National Defence University’s Centre for Economic Research issued a report indicating that the Chinese military was likely to require up to 400 Y-20s. More recently, during a technology innovation exhibition in Beijing, held between June 1-7, Zhu Qian, head of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) Large Aircraft Development Office, said that more than 1,000 Y-20s will be needed. He did not elaborate further and this estimate may include requirements for commercial cargo operators as well. AFD-Dave Allport


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> Two Y-20 Transport Aircraft
> 
> Chinese PLAAF Takes Delivery of First Two Y-20 Transport Aircraft
> 
> Posted on 16 June, 2016
> 
> Xian Y-20 prototype 783 being displayed at the Zhuhai Air Show on November 16, 2014. The first two Y-20s were handed over to the PLAAF yesterday and delivered today to the 4th Air (Transport) Division at Chengdu-Qionglai.
> 
> CHINA’S PEOPLE’S Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has taken delivery of the first operational Xian Y-20 strategic transport aircraft. Two of the type were handed over at the Xian factory yesterday, June 15. Both were then flown out today to Chengdu-Qionglai Air Base, near Sangyuan, to enter service with the 4th Air (Transport) Division. The first aircraft, 11051 ’01’, landed at Qionglai around 1200hrs local time, followed by the second shortly after 1700hrs.
> 
> The deliveries follow over three years of testing since the maiden flight of the first prototype, which took place on January 26, 2013. A total of five prototypes have been involved in flight testing, the fifth and most recent, ‘789’ having made its first flight on February 6 this year. It followed soon after the fourth prototype, ‘788’, which was first seen on January 23. The other three prototypes are 781, 783 and 785.
> 
> In 2014, the PLA National Defence University’s Centre for Economic Research issued a report indicating that the Chinese military was likely to require up to 400 Y-20s. More recently, during a technology innovation exhibition in Beijing, held between June 1-7, Zhu Qian, head of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) Large Aircraft Development Office, said that more than 1,000 Y-20s will be needed. He did not elaborate further and this estimate may include requirements for commercial cargo operators as well. AFD-Dave Allport


Impressive plane.
Do not means much for us (as there wont be much need for similar platforms) however but still this truly is a milestone achieved as far as Chinese aviation adventures are concerned.


----------



## Quwa

Arsalan said:


> Impressive plane.
> Do not means much for us (as there wont be much need for similar platforms) however but still this truly is a milestone achieved as far as Chinese aviation adventures are concerned.


If they develop an MRTT version, I think the PAF might consider it to replace the IL-78s.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Arsalan said:


> Impressive plane.
> Do not means much for us (as there wont be much need for similar platforms) however but still this truly is a milestone achieved as far as Chinese aviation adventures are concerned.


Why is it not significant for PAF? PAF needs to be decisive and put an firm order for few of it instead of being indecisive. I am sure China is able to afford 2-3 production plane available for PAF if money is paid upfront.


----------



## fatman17

Once a export version is available, l think PAF would like a few strategic airlift aircraft. also depends on its range.


----------



## Arsalan

Beast said:


> Why is it not significant for PAF? PAF needs to be decisive and put an firm order for few of it instead of being indecisive. I am sure China is able to afford 2-3 production plane available for PAF if money is paid upfront.


I don't think we need these heavy transport planes. C-130 suite and serve us the best and if anything, we would be looking for a comparable aircraft to supplement the C-130 fleet. The Y-20 is something we wont be needing unless we start shopping to feel good.


----------



## Beast

Arsalan said:


> I don't think we need these heavy transport planes. C-130 suite and serve us the best and if anything, we would be looking for a comparable aircraft to supplement the C-130 fleet. The Y-20 is something we wont be needing unless we start shopping to feel good.


It not about boasting ego, Y-20 is essential. It can carry oversize items and MBT while landed on ill prepared land strip over long distance. The best thing is , it is fully digitize with glass display cockpit while not overexpensive like C-17 or A400M. PAF just need 4-6 of these will greatly increase its combat capabilities. C-130 cargo bay size is very limited. It can fit into light armour Car but not even IFV can goes into it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

Quwa said:


> If they develop an MRTT version, I think the PAF might consider it to replace the IL-78s.


Sir don't you think getting a few more Il-78 will be better for us as well? What will be the requirement of aerial refuelers keeping in mind our geography, air force doctrine and the number of planes? I think 7 - 10 will be enough on max end and we can do just fine with 4-6 as well. Keeping that in views, i feel that getting more IL-78 will be better rather then operating two kinds, specially when we really do not have a huge need for big air lifters. What do you suggest/think? AND if you suggest that Y-20 will be better option what kind of numbers will you propose? (we are just discussing this matter so it is purely speculation, i hope people wont start quoting this as confirmation of PAF getting Y-20)



Beast said:


> It not about boasting ego, Y-20 is essential. It can carry oversize items and MBT while landed on ill prepared land strip over long distance. The best thing is , it is fully digitize with glass display cockpit while not over expensive like C-17 or A400M. PAF just need 4-6 of these will greatly increase its combat capabilities. C-130 cargo bay size is very limited. It can fit into light armour Car but not even IFV can goes into it.


Yes that is what i meant to say dear, that DO we need to air lift MBT? As far as i can tell by the studying PA doctrine and polices and looking and the geography of my country and the distances of different possible fronts from one another and from the bases, i feel that we may not need 5 Y20 sir transporting 5 MBT to a different theater! C-130 meets and fulfill the basic transport needs and we only have basic transport needs. 

Simply speaking, where do you think we will like our 5 MBT tanks delivered by Y-20? to which sector? I cant think of any.


----------



## Imran Khan

Arsalan said:


> I don't think we need these heavy transport planes. C-130 suite and serve us the best and if anything, we would be looking for a comparable aircraft to supplement the C-130 fleet. The Y-20 is something we wont be needing unless we start shopping to feel good.


only matter of time and engine sir i am watching it in pakistan after engine issue solve


----------



## Beast

Arsalan said:


> Sir don't you think getting a few more Il-78 will be better for us as well? What will be the requirement of aerial refuelers keeping in mind our geography, air force doctrine and the number of planes? I think 7 - 10 will be enough on max end and we can do just fine with 4-6 as well. Keeping that in views, i feel that getting more IL-78 will be better rather then operating two kinds, specially when we really do not have a huge need for big air lifters. What do you suggest/think? AND if you suggest that Y-20 will be better option what kind of numbers will you propose? (we are just discussing this matter so it is purely speculation, i hope people wont start quoting this as confirmation of PAF getting Y-20)
> 
> 
> Yes that is what i meant to say dear, that DO we need to air lift MBT? As far as i can tell by the studying PA doctrine and polices and looking and the geography of my country and the distances of different possible fronts from one another and from the bases, i feel that we may not need 5 Y20 sir transporting 5 MBT to a different theater! C-130 meets and fulfill the basic transport needs and we only have basic transport needs.
> 
> Simply speaking, where do you think we will like our 5 MBT tanks delivered by Y-20? to which sector? I cant think of any.


IL-78 cargo bay is much smaller compare to Y-20. It cannot fit an alkalid MBT into it. Plus max payload is 52 tons which in future PA MBT gets heavier, it cant lift off.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

Beast said:


> IL-78 cargo bay is much smaller compare to Y-20. It cannot fit an alkalid MBT into it. Plus max payload is 52 tons which in future PA MBT gets heavier, it cant lift off.



Sir sorry if i was not able to make my point clear. The thing i was pointing too was that do we really need to transport 5 MBT tanks anywhere? The C-17 have bigger cargo bay and the C-5 have even bigger one but what is the argument here? My point was not that IL-78 is equally capable but that IL-78 is enough for OUR NEEDS. Why do we need to transport MBT? to where exactly? 

Well now that i read my own post again i realize that i did made this question quite clear.



Imran Khan said:


> only matter of time and engine sir i am watching it in pakistan after engine issue solve


What do you suggest will be its role? what needs will this satisfy sir jee? How many numbers you think we will go for? 
(for Fan boys again, we are just speculating and expressing our personal point of view, it is by no way any official statement or confirmation or not anything that any "source" have told anyone!! JUST SPECULATING. I hope Imran sahib and QUWA will agree with this. We do not want to give any wrong ideas)


----------



## Imran Khan

Arsalan said:


> Sir sorry if i was not able to make my point clear. The thing i was pointing too was that do we really need to transport 5 MBT tanks anywhere? The C-17 have bigger cargo bay and the C-5 have even bigger one but what is the argument here? My point was not that IL-78 is equally capable but that IL-78 is enough for OUR NEEDS. Why do we need to transport MBT? to where exactly?
> 
> Well now that i read my own post again i realize that i did made this question quite clear.
> 
> 
> What do you suggest will be its role? what needs will this satisfy sir jee? How many numbers you think we will go for?
> (for Fan boys again, we are just speculating and expressing our personal point of view, it is by no way any official statement or confirmation or not anything that any "source" have told anyone!! JUST SPECULATING. I hope Imran sahib and QUWA will agree with this. We do not want to give any wrong ideas)


sir we all know we are using 40 to 50 years old c-130s some even we pick from thrown away . if we have more budget we have upgraded our fleet of c-130s since long ago . our il-78s are also old monks . in fact our transport fleet is aging and outdated . future was USA if they retired some c-17s and we got but this look impossible . we have no money for c-130J . russian and EU need more dollars . so what left is china and Chinese products for us . i think 12 or 18 of these in multi role configuration will be best for us on soft loans like our ZDK-03s . they are far far better from our 1960 inducted c-130 9no matter how much we upgrade them they have to face graveyard near future .


----------



## Quwa

Arsalan said:


> Sir don't you think getting a few more Il-78 will be better for us as well? What will be the requirement of aerial refuelers keeping in mind our geography, air force doctrine and the number of planes? I think 7 - 10 will be enough on max end and we can do just fine with 4-6 as well. Keeping that in views, i feel that getting more IL-78 will be better rather then operating two kinds, specially when we really do not have a huge need for big air lifters. What do you suggest/think? AND if you suggest that Y-20 will be better option what kind of numbers will you propose? (we are just discussing this matter so it is purely speculation, i hope people wont start quoting this as confirmation of PAF getting Y-20)


4-6 Y-20s (replacing IL-78s). The real variable IMO would be Y-20's fuel efficiency. It seems to use the same D-30KP turbofans as the IL-78s, but I wonder if its airframe design and other aspects make it less of a guzzler compared to the Midas. If so, then I think the PAF would go that route.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arsalan

Quwa said:


> 4-6 Y-20s (replacing IL-78s). The real variable IMO would be Y-20's fuel efficiency. It seems to use the same D-30KP turbofans as the IL-78s, but I wonder if its airframe design and other aspects make it less of a guzzler compared to the Midas. If so, then I think the PAF would go that route.


hmmm,
Lets see. I am not sure who much difference only the air frame design will make with the same engines, remember that Y20 is some 30 ton heavier as well.



Imran Khan said:


> sir we all know we are using 40 to 50 years old c-130s some even we pick from thrown away . if we have more budget we have upgraded our fleet of c-130s since long ago . our il-78s are also old monks . in fact our transport fleet is aging and outdated . future was USA if they retired some c-17s and we got but this look impossible . we have no money for c-130J . russian and EU need more dollars . so what left is china and Chinese products for us . i think 12 or 18 of these in multi role configuration will be best for us on soft loans like our ZDK-03s . they are far far better from our 1960 inducted c-130 9no matter how much we upgrade them they have to face graveyard near future .


Sir ge Y-20 are NOT a replacement of C-130. So when we are to replace C-130 wont the the Chinese Y-9 make much more sense? They are relatively similar while the Y-20 is a totally different thing. It is not something that can replace a medium size medium lift propeller aircraft. Y-9 makes much more sense in that scenario.


----------



## Imran Khan

Arsalan said:


> hmmm,
> Lets see. I am not sure who much difference only the air frame design will make with the same engines, remember that Y20 is some 30 ton heavier as well.
> 
> 
> Sir ge Y-20 are NOT a replacement of C-130. So when we are to replace C-130 wont the the Chinese Y-9 make much more sense? They are relatively similar while the Y-20 is a totally different thing. It is not something that can replace a medium size medium lift propeller aircraft. Y-9 makes much more sense in that scenario.


sir i think it should not only replacement but also up-gradation for next generation is also important . should we stuck in turboprop for 100 years ? keep in the mind we have used them already 60 years . its not few years deal we will use them next 20-25 years sir .bigger plane more load and more troops means more power .in fact we need these kind of bird since long time but we have no option . but now we have one .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

Imran Khan said:


> sir i think it should not only replacement but also up-gradation for next generation is also important . should we stuck in turboprop for 100 years ? keep in the mind we have used them already 60 years . its not few years deal we will use them next 20-25 years sir .bigger plane more load and more troops means more power .in fact we need these kind of bird since long time but we have no option . but now we have one .


Sir, aik tu app mujy "Sir" kaah kaa sharminda na kia krain.. please! 

As for a move into next generation, sir modern turbo props are next generation. There are certain advantages that the cargo planes like C-130 and Y-9 offer that cant be found in Y20 or those Globe Masters. This is the reason they are still here and will remain here for decades to come and this is the reason we see so many nations investing millions of dollars in these projects. A-400M, Y-9, Super Hercules, AN70 (re-initiated) all point in that direction (specially the first two). So if these can handle our cargo capacity requirements (which i think they do) the these will be the best option for us. Y20 are heavy lift cargo planes and i see not much application in case of Pakistan. Not saying that if we can get a few then it will be a disaster, these sure look impressive planes. It is just that i personally cannot think of what real value they will add, what practical advantage they will bring for Pakistan. May be something that i am missing but i dont think so.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Arsalan said:


> Sir, aik tu app mujy "Sir" kaah kaa sharminda na kia krain.. please!
> 
> As for a move into next generation, sir modern turbo props are next generation. There are certain advantages that the cargo planes like C-130 and Y-9 offer that cant be found in Y20 or those Globe Masters. This is the reason they are still here and will remain here for decades to come and this is the reason we see so many nations investing millions of dollars in these projects. A-400M, Y-9, Super Hercules, AN70 (re-initiated) all point in that direction (specially the first two). So if these can handle our cargo capacity requirements (which i think they do) the these will be the best option for us. Y20 are heavy lift cargo planes and i see not much application in case of Pakistan. Not saying that if we can get a few then it will be a disaster, these sure look impressive planes. It is just that i personally cannot think of what real value they will add, what practical advantage they will bring for Pakistan. May be something that i am missing but i dont think so.


It's is an tactical airlift. You can transport large number of tactical hardware to hot spot or even military build up. Y-20 can rapidly transport your Cobras gunship a thousand away. You don't expect your gunship to fly a thousand km by itself, do you? That is something C-130 Hercules can't do it when compare to Y-20.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RAMPAGE

Arsalan said:


> Y20 are heavy lift cargo planes and i see not much application in case of Pakistan. Not saying that if we can get a few then it will be a disaster, these sure look impressive planes. It is just that i personally cannot think of what real value they will add, what practical advantage they will bring for Pakistan. May be something that i am missing but i dont think so.


Don't be so sure, Sir. Those IL-78s are difficult to maintain, Trust me. That's all I am saying.


----------



## Imran Khan

Arsalan said:


> Sir, aik tu app mujy "Sir" kaah kaa sharminda na kia krain.. please!
> 
> As for a move into next generation, sir modern turbo props are next generation. There are certain advantages that the cargo planes like C-130 and Y-9 offer that cant be found in Y20 or those Globe Masters. This is the reason they are still here and will remain here for decades to come and this is the reason we see so many nations investing millions of dollars in these projects. A-400M, Y-9, Super Hercules, AN70 (re-initiated) all point in that direction (specially the first two). So if these can handle our cargo capacity requirements (which i think they do) the these will be the best option for us. Y20 are heavy lift cargo planes and i see not much application in case of Pakistan. Not saying that if we can get a few then it will be a disaster, these sure look impressive planes. It is just that i personally cannot think of what real value they will add, what practical advantage they will bring for Pakistan. May be something that i am missing but i dont think so.


sir jee ab takiya kalam hai mazarat ke sath sir jee 


btw i am agree with your points and i think may be western platforms like c130-j or A-400s may be stay for long but y-9 is not better replacement of C-130 as you may know lifespan of Y-9 or even Y-20 is not as western planes . over all i am not fully disagree with you sir . you have raised some nice points also . but i think cn-235 and Y-20 only two platforms are suitable for light and heavy transport roles . also tankers role and tactical transport . it will be easy for maintain . now a days we have cocktail whatever we find we induct it .



Beast said:


> It's is an tactical airlift. You can transport large number of tactical hardware to hot spot or even military build up. Y-20 can rapidly transport your Cobras gunship a thousand away. You don't expect your gunship to fly a thousand km by itself, do you? That is something C-130 Hercules can't do it when compare to Y-20.


but it can carry 200 camels and 350 goats for us in urgent situation

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

C130 support transport at Anatolian Eagle, 16

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice picture


----------



## hassan1




----------



## hassan1

RIAT 2016

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

C130 at RIAT


----------



## Windjammer

Supporting special Zarb-e-Azab markings, a PAF C-130 arrives on a ten day trip to UK.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## zeeshan shaani

Windjammer said:


>


Looking attrective. Is not it?


----------



## Windjammer

PAF C-130E at RIAT.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fatman17

Zarb e asb mural on C130 tail fin

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Riat 2016

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007

hope soon PAF will induct
XIAN Y-20 in its fleet


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

2nd C130 at RIAT


----------



## fatman17

Zarb e azb mural


----------



## Blue Marlin

fatman17 said:


> 2nd C130 at RIAT


did that just arrive?


----------



## nomi007

kill shots of y-20
hope we are the 1st foreign customer of this mighty plane

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## muhammadali233

nomi007 said:


> kill shots of y-20
> hope we are the 1st foreign customer of this mighty plane
> View attachment 316920
> View attachment 316921


as per the pilot of c130 e at riat 16 said he would love to see a400m in paf inventory, totally we should also go for a400m over y20 anyday.


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17

PIA Super Constellation

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Kudos to OC ENG and OC 6 for doing such a stellar job.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice pic


----------



## fatman17

ACM message


----------



## mil-avia

Future Airplanes Will Fly On Twistable Wings
Replacing traditional flaps with bendable bits will reduce noise and save fuel


----------



## fatman17

Y20 strategic transport

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## R!CK

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 317387
> View attachment 317380
> View attachment 317381
> View attachment 317382
> View attachment 317383
> View attachment 317384
> View attachment 317385
> View attachment 317386
> View attachment 317387
> View attachment 317380
> View attachment 317381
> View attachment 317382
> View attachment 317383
> View attachment 317384
> View attachment 317385
> View attachment 317386
> View attachment 317387



Very interesting Livery. Nice work!

Good Day!


----------



## mil-avia

UK researchers unveil silent aircraft concept


----------



## hassan1




----------



## Incog_nito

Why not PAF buy addition 6-8 IL-76 from UKRAINE if they have any?


----------



## fatman17

Oxair Online said:


> Why not PAF buy addition 6-8 IL-76 from UKRAINE if they have any?



For what


----------



## ali_raza

fatman17 said:


> For what


cattle transportation

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

ali_raza said:


> cattle transportation



Very Jocular

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ali_raza

fatman17 said:


> Very Jocular


saste me kam ho je ga bhai :p


----------



## The Eagle



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Inception-06

fatman17 said:


> For what


 

To raise new a new Airborne Division, like India.

India:

The *Parachute Regiment* is the airborne infantry regiment of the Indian Army.

Size 17 battalions (9 special forces, 5 airborne, 2 Territorial Army and 1 Rashtriya Rifles).
Of the regular battalions, three are airborne infantry battalions, while eight are special forces battalions. Formerly designated "Commando" units, they are now designated Special Forces.


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice pic

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Inception-06

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 347264



how many are in service totalled with Army aviation and air force ?


----------



## fatman17

Ulla said:


> how many are in service totalled with Army aviation and air force ?



2 each

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ali_raza

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 347887


great pic


----------



## nomi007

export version of Y-9
export version was unveiled at the 2016 Zhuhai Airshow as *Y-9E*
hope will replace old Hercules with this versions

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TOPGUN

nomi007 said:


> export version of Y-9
> export version was unveiled at the 2016 Zhuhai Airshow as *Y-9E*
> hope will replace old Hercules with this versions




Why replace them ? do you even know if they have updated ? or overhauled ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> Why replace them ? do you even know if they have updated ? or overhauled ?



6 Hercs are being overhauled in Malaysia. 1st one is almost complete.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## nomi007

*pakistan airforce one*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm

Sometime back outer wing sections and other part were bought by paf so probably bring older c130 back by extending life for another 10 15 years paf has total 16 c130 in 6 and 21 sqn including these 6

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice pic

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

China's answer to the C130 Herk. 

The PLA Daily just released a series of photos confirming that Y-9's "3-ZBD-03 airborne armored infantry fighting vehicle" capacity. Outside of dropping ZBD-03s, it can also carry 25 tons of cargo or 132 paratroops. While the Y-20 program is getting all the attention, the Y-9 is another tool in China's war chest that can call upon to rapidly reinforce China's remote regions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 358703
> 
> 
> *pakistan airforce one*




A rather , small plane for Airforce one status should really upgrade to a more modern BombardierC100 or C300 series plane for Airforce one




or Slightly bigger version





This really is a awesome platform for Airforce one or AWAC






Should be able to at least take 50-100 Officials in air if needed to keep Government running from Air


----------



## nomi007

fatman17 said:


> China's answer to the C130 Herk.
> 
> The PLA Daily just released a series of photos confirming that Y-9's "3-ZBD-03 airborne armored infantry fighting vehicle" capacity. Outside of dropping ZBD-03s, it can also carry 25 tons of cargo or 132 paratroops. While the Y-20 program is getting all the attention, the Y-9 is another tool in China's war chest that can call upon to rapidly reinforce China's remote regions.


post in chinese thread


----------



## Blue Marlin

fatman17 said:


> 6 Hercs are being overhauled in Malaysia. 1st one is almost complete.


how come the hercs are overhauled in malaysia, and not in pakistan?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Blue Marlin said:


> how come the hercs are overhauled in malaysia, and not in pakistan?



LM has a facility thru 3rd party in Malaysia.


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

IMO Pakistan will keep on using the C-130. If and when the older C-130s expire (assuming they can't be zero-hour'ed), the PAF will probably seek surplus C-130Js or buy them new from the U.S.

Some might scoff at the USD $100m price-point, but that is the cost of the aircraft *plus* the support package - i.e. spare parts, spare engines, training, logistics, etc. That'll be much cheaper than the A400M, and probably marginally pricier than most other aircraft, e.g. KC390.

Besides, the PAF will fly new C-130s for 50-70 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Blue Marlin

fatman17 said:


> LM has a facility thru 3rd party in Malaysia.


so it has to be done my lm? in terms of tech know how i thought pakistan took the back end of one c130 and put it on the other c130 to make it serviceable.


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMO Pakistan will keep on using the C-130. If and when the older C-130s expire (assuming they can't be zero-hour'ed), the PAF will probably seek surplus C-130Js or buy them new from the U.S.
> 
> Some might scoff at the USD $100m price-point, but that is the cost of the aircraft *plus* the support package - i.e. spare parts, spare engines, training, logistics, etc. That'll be much cheaper than the A400M, and probably marginally pricier than most other aircraft, e.g. KC390.
> 
> Besides, the PAF will fly new C-130s for 50-70 years.


the kc-390's main selling point is being cheaper than the c130 as is specifically designed to do so.
its range is not as good as the c130 when under full load but thats pretty much it.




the a400 is $130 million of the shelf cost. and is not even worth looking dispite being impressive as i believe pakistan looked at it at riat 2016. but chin has the y-30 program which is slow but picking up speed





but pakistan liking the c130 they would go for the c130j's with the 30 foot extended fuselage [c130j-30]


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Blue Marlin said:


> so it has to be done my lm? in terms of tech know how i thought pakistan took the back end of one c130 and put it on the other c130 to make it serviceable.
> 
> the kc-390's main selling point is being cheaper than the c130 as is specifically designed to do so.
> its range is not as good as the c130 when under full load but thats pretty much it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the a400 is $130 million of the shelf cost. and is not even worth looking dispite being impressive as i believe pakistan looked at it at riat 2016. but chin has the y-30 program which is slow but picking up speed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but pakistan liking the c130 they would go for the c130j's with the 30 foot extended fuselage [c130j-30]


When FMF for the F-16 deal collapsed, the PAF should have trolled Congress by taking up its willingness for Hercules on aid by asking for subsidized C-130Js.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> When FMF for the F-16 deal collapsed, the PAF should have trolled Congress by taking up its willingness for Hercules on aid by asking for subsidized C-130Js.


It will be far better if we forget usa for few decades


----------



## Blue Marlin

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> When FMF for the F-16 deal collapsed, the PAF should have trolled Congress by taking up its willingness for Hercules on aid by asking for subsidized C-130Js.


good idea, they can be used for "humanitarian aid"
lets see what trump has in store for pakistan.

is the y-9 bigger than the c130j-30

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> When FMF for the F-16 deal collapsed, the PAF should have trolled Congress by taking up its willingness for Hercules on aid by asking for subsidized C-130Js.


@MastanKhan Bro, your comments?


----------



## Imran Khan

Khafee said:


> @MastanKhan Bro, your comments?


In other words we keep begging usa all the time


----------



## Khafee

Imran Khan said:


> In other words we keep begging usa all the time


By no means!

CSF is, and was, pittance, hence in light of a more realistic figure, it makes complete sense.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Imran Khan said:


> In other words we keep begging usa all the time


or as the Israelis would say, 'leveraging our dues.'

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## fatman17

Should evaluate CJ27 Spartan.


----------



## fatman17

CJ27 Spartan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MastanKhan

Khafee said:


> @MastanKhan Bro, your comments?



Hi,

That is what surprised me---why did they not ask for something else for those funds---put them in a spot---.

But the problem is that we have Paf managers who are IDIOTS WITH EGOS---. Their ego got hurt---they could not think straight.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> That is what surprised me---why did they not ask for something else for those funds---put them in a spot---.
> 
> But the problem is that we have Paf managers who are IDIOTS WITH EGOS---. Their ego got hurt---they could not think straight.


Sir, the PAF does not go about gallivanting telling Pentagon/ Congress, this is what we want. F-16's didn't come, cash is good. Hope you got it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JK!

Ukrainian Antonov planes could be an option.....


----------



## Windjammer

Just check how many trainees from friendly countries attending the PAF transport training courses.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Windjammer said:


> Just check how many trainees from friendly countries attending the PAF transport training courses.


1st one on the right UAE 

Total 8 foreign countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The Eagle

Khafee said:


> 1st one on the right UAE
> 
> Total 8 foreign countries.



Front Row...


----------



## fatman17

IL78 MRTT to be upgraded

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## mil-avia

Cost Assessment of Near and Mid-Term Technologies to Improve New Aircraft Fuel Efficiency


----------



## fatman17

Russia To Possibly Refurbish Pakistan Air Force's Ilyush IL-78 Tanker

A photo of a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Ilyushin IL-78 in-flight re-fueling tanker at the 360th Aircraft Repair Plant in Ryazan city most likely indicates that Russia would be refurbishing the PAF’s IL-78 four-engine tanker.

In a post written by a Russian aviation observer, the 360th Aircraft Repair Plant will begin refurbishing the IL-78s in May, and will complete the process by December 2017, Quwa reported Monday.

The PAF procured its four IL-78s from Ukrainian surplus stocks in the mid-to-late 2000s. The first IL-78 was delivered to the PAF in December 2009.

Equipped with UPAZ re-fueling pods, the PAF has used the IL-78 to support its Mirage Retrofit Strike Element (ROSE) squadrons as well as undertake heavy-lift transport tasks.

The PAF sought refuelling aircraft to extend the endurance and range of its light-weight fighter aircraft. The PAF likely preferred a tanker capable of both boom and hose-and-drogue refuelling (to support the F-16 as well as Mirage ROSE and JF-17), it was unable to secure an affordable platform to fulfill the role.

Although the IL-78s were bought cheaply, questions have been posed to the platform’s efficiency (in light of its noise and fuel-consumption issues). Refurbishment in Russia will see the PAF’s IL-78s benefit from various airframe and engine repairs.

Interestingly, this is the first transaction between Russia and Pakistan that supports, albeit modestly, the latter’s conventional military capabilities.

To the PAF, the IL-78s are tankers first and foremost, and are poised to be more prominent with the introduction of in-flight refuelling capable JF-17 Block-II fighters rolling out from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm

Need info on new C130 No 21 sqn ???
No 4 AWACS and No 13 AWACS sqn

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

khanasifm said:


> View attachment 373747
> 
> 
> Need info on new C130 No 21 sqn ???
> No 4 AWACS and No 13 AWACS sqn



No 4 is the ZDK03 sqdn, raised at Masroor but now might have moved to Mushaf. 
No13 is the Erieye Sqdn also raised at Kamra but might have moved to Mushaf. 
I'm not aware raising of a new C130 sqdn. 
This is my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

C130 boneyard?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm

fatman17 said:


> No 4 is the ZDK03 sqdn, raised at Masroor but now might have moved to Mushaf.
> No13 is the Erieye Sqdn also raised at Kamra but might have moved to Mushaf.
> I'm not aware raising of a new C130 sqdn.
> This is my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong.




I am looking for Sqn insignia/badges etc , no 21 was raised 4/5 years ago after last 6 c130 were acquired from USA

so now you have from 1-27 all sqn (3 sqn being TCS with no number) plus no 41 total 28 sqns plus heli sqns 7/8 of them in th af


----------



## khanasifm




----------



## khanasifm

I think the badge is not correct ??? does not look like other PAF sqn crests

http://www.c-130.net/c-130-units-airforce284.html


----------



## DesiWarrior

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> That is what surprised me---why did they not ask for something else for those funds---put them in a spot---.
> 
> But the problem is that we have Paf managers who are IDIOTS WITH EGOS---. Their ego got hurt---they could not think straight.


The deal fell because USA was not ready to finance (pay a portion of the fighters price), I don't think there was any money available on the table for Pakistan to ask something else. Please correct me if I am missing something.


----------



## MastanKhan

DesiWarrior said:


> The deal fell because USA was not ready to finance (pay a portion of the fighters price), I don't think there was any money available on the table for Pakistan to ask something else. Please correct me if I am missing something.



Hi,

The X amount of dollars were there---for which the U S made the offer to Paf to go for the F16's---. 

The U S changed their stance later on---the funds did not go anywhere ---just got wasted---because Paf waited till the last that the decision would change---and the time ran out.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## haroonn

Contrary to popular belief, No. 13 Sqd does not exist. Saab-2000 AEW equips actually No. 3 Sqd. Following are the squadron crests taken from History of PAF (1999-2013).





khanasifm said:


> I am looking for Sqn insignia/badges etc , no 21 was raised 4/5 years ago after last 6 c130 were acquired from USA
> 
> so now you have from 1-27 all sqn (3 sqn being TCS with no number) plus no 41 total 28 sqns plus heli sqns 7/8 of them in th af

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

haroonn said:


> Contrary to popular belief, No. 13 Sqd does not exist. Saab-2000 AEW equips actually No. 3 Sqd. Following are the squadron crests taken from History of PAF (1999-2013).




Thanks

Per 2008 paf history transport conversion school started with no 3 but the no was dropped

No 4 is k3 awacs Sqn and no 13 Saab 2k awacs Sqn I had seen some or posted crest in the forum ??

Not sure what is no 3 awacs Sqn?


----------



## khanasifm

not sure if this is official or fan art 
http://www.scramble.nl/orbats/pakistan/airforce

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

No 21 Pegasus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

*Lockheed Martin rolls out first civil LM-100J airlifter*

http://www.janes.com/article/67635/lockheed-martin-rolls-out-first-civil-lm-100j-airlifter

As well as reducing the procurement cost (Lockheed Martin has previously given a *unit cost of about USD60 million and USD70 million for an LM-130J, compared to approximately USD100 million for a C-130J)*, this reduces weight and fuel costs, as well as maintenance and sustainment costs. As such, the company sees a particular application with the militaries of some of the less developed parts of the world, such as Latin America, Africa, and parts of Asia.


----------



## fatman17

khanasifm said:


> *Lockheed Martin rolls out first civil LM-100J airlifter*
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/67635/lockheed-martin-rolls-out-first-civil-lm-100j-airlifter
> 
> As well as reducing the procurement cost (Lockheed Martin has previously given a *unit cost of about USD60 million and USD70 million for an LM-130J, compared to approximately USD100 million for a C-130J)*, this reduces weight and fuel costs, as well as maintenance and sustainment costs. As such, the company sees a particular application with the militaries of some of the less developed parts of the world, such as Latin America, Africa, and parts of Asia.



PAF has 1 L-100 in its inventory which was transferred from PIA in the 60s/70s.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blue Marlin

il-78 in ryazan for the refurb

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Blue Marlin said:


> il-78 in ryazan for the refurb
> View attachment 376593



that's a very old pic


----------



## Blue Marlin

fatman17 said:


> that's a very old pic


oh...........i googled pakistani il-78 in ryazan and thats what i got.


----------



## fatman17

Blue Marlin said:


> oh...........i googled pakistani il-78 in ryazan and thats what i got.



actually no PAF IL78 has been sent to Russia yet.


----------



## Blue Marlin

fatman17 said:


> actually no PAF IL78 has been sent to Russia yet.


then why were there reports of a ll-78 spotted in ryazan?


----------



## ghazi52

Pakistan Air Force achieves a major milestone with the Indigenous Overhauling of the 50th C-130 Aircraft .






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1111661572294873

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Major achievement


----------



## fatman17

Blue Marlin said:


> then why were there reports of a ll-78 spotted in ryazan?


If we see the report, it mentioned the words "maybe ". It is still possible that it will happen.


----------



## Blue Marlin

fatman17 said:


> If we see the report, it mentioned the words "maybe ". It is still possible that it will happen.


well its confirmed there being repaired there.
http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2017/1/17/7917/?h
there was a report of one being spotted there and i posted a pic.

in regards to the 50th c130 being overhauled where you quoted me in another thread i under stand c130's were overhauled multiple times. 

when do you think they would be replaced ? 
y30 




or c130-30j's ?




or even kc-390's ?


----------



## fatman17

Blue Marlin said:


> well its confirmed there being repaired there.
> http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2017/1/17/7917/?h
> there was a report of one being spotted there and i posted a pic.
> 
> in regards to the 50th c130 being overhauled where you quoted me in another thread i under stand c130's were overhauled multiple times.
> 
> when do you think they would be replaced ?
> y30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or c130-30j's ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or even kc-390's ?


Don't know PAF replacement plans for C130s, having said that the structural upgrades Will increase aircraft life extension by another 10 ,15 years . Next platform Will most likely be Chinese.


----------



## Rocky rock

Blue Marlin said:


> well its confirmed there being repaired there.
> http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2017/1/17/7917/?h
> there was a report of one being spotted there and i posted a pic.
> 
> in regards to the 50th c130 being overhauled where you quoted me in another thread i under stand c130's were overhauled multiple times.
> 
> when do you think they would be replaced ?
> y30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or c130-30j's ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or even kc-390's ?


*
This Possibly the only one we would be considering to replace C-130's.

Y-20




*


----------



## fatman17

Rocky rock said:


> *
> This Possibly the only one we would be considering to replace C-130's.
> 
> Y-20
> 
> View attachment 384380
> *


Y9 is the poor man's C130


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

fatman17 said:


> Don't know PAF replacement plans for C130s, having said that the structural upgrades Will increase aircraft life extension by another 10 ,15 years . *Next platform Will most likely be Chinese.*


We'll have to wait and see.

Lockheed Martin has a saying, "only a Herc can replace a Herc." There are quality, durability and reliability aspects of the C-130 that have kept it as the industry standard to this day. Even poor users (which would be tilted to Chinese platforms on cost) seek used C-130s.

Lockheed recently began rolling out LM-100J freighters, basically no-frills Super Hercules for the civilian and cost-sensitive market. I think LM is aiming to pick up legacy C-130B/E users such as Pakistan, South Africa, Czech Republic, Poland etc, with the LM-100J.

And if not the LM-100J, then Embraer has a pretty good case with the KC-390. It's powered by the same engines as the Airbus A320, and Embraer claimed that the KC-390 will have among the lowest lifecycle costs on the market. It can also double as an in-flight refueling tanker.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

Yesterday, saw a Il-78, Eeriye and C130 in formation over Faisal Masjid, Islamabad.
Man, the Il-78 is a beast. From where I was seeing, it could pack two Eeriyes inside.
But it was leaving smoke trails and first I thought that it is refuelling the C130 behind it.


----------



## fatman17

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> We'll have to wait and see.
> 
> Lockheed Martin has a saying, "only a Herc can replace a Herc." There are quality, durability and reliability aspects of the C-130 that have kept it as the industry standard to this day. Even poor users (which would be tilted to Chinese platforms on cost) seek used C-130s.
> 
> Lockheed recently began rolling out LM-100J freighters, basically no-frills Super Hercules for the civilian and cost-sensitive market. I think LM is aiming to pick up legacy C-130B/E users such as Pakistan, South Africa, Czech Republic, Poland etc, with the LM-100J.
> 
> And if not the LM-100J, then Embraer has a pretty good case with the KC-390. It's powered by the same engines as the Airbus A320, and Embraer claimed that the KC-390 will have among the lowest lifecycle costs on the market. It can also double as an in-flight refueling tanker.


PAF planners will never spend their sparse budget on new transports. This is a 2nd hand market for PAF if they choose western.


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

fatman17 said:


> PAF planners will never spend their sparse budget on new transports. This is a 2nd hand market for PAF if they choose western.


They could if it means a platform that can reliably serve for 50+ years.


----------



## Bossman

fatman17 said:


> PAF planners will never spend their sparse budget on new transports. This is a 2nd hand market for PAF if they choose western.


What about CN 235, they were brought brand new. Also PAF is getting some new transports soon but I don't know which one. I would not be surprised if they were Y 20s


----------



## Rocky rock

Bossman said:


> What about CN 235, they were brought brand new. Also PAF is getting some new transports soon but I don't know which one. I would not be surprised if they were Y 20s



Pakistan Air Force already operates four CN235-220 aircraft.
To Replace C-130 Pakistan would surely go for Y-20 so you may get surprise or not.


----------



## WarFariX

Rocky rock said:


> Pakistan Air Force already operates four CN235-220 aircraft.
> To Replace C-130 Pakistan would surely go for Y-20 so you may get surprise or not.


i can put my bet on Y-9 after all thats somewhat a better replacement for hercules


----------



## Rocky rock

MarvellousThunder@PDC said:


> i can put my bet on Y-9 after all thats somewhat a better replacement for hercules



Lolx you're considering Y-9 better than Y-20?

it's like comparing F-7 with FA-18 Hornet. Y-9 is having Turboprop Engine with Max-take off capacity of 77,000kg whereas Y-20 is equipped Turbofan by having Thrust of 12 to 14k of Thrust. & can take 220,000 kg as Max,Take off weight. 

So Y-20 Matches for future requirements of Pakistan. but Pakistan like Turboprop engine for savin money so who knows.


----------



## fatman17

Bossman said:


> What about CN 235, they were brought brand new. Also PAF is getting some new transports soon but I don't know which one. I would not be surprised if they were Y 20s


CN235 not in C130 class of transports

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

MarvellousThunder@PDC said:


> i can put my bet on Y-9 after all thats somewhat a better replacement for hercules


Y9 is less capable than C130. But if PAF has no other options then Y9 will do but PAF would certainly make upgrades from the standard type.


----------



## mdcp

Y 20 is best why we always talk about cheap option and compromise on performace.

We need heavy lift helicopters for heavy machinery deployment, ammo, tropps in high mountains.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

I believe by the time PAF will look to replace Hercules, there will be quite a few options. The around 20 tonnes payload category is getting saturated.
C-130 20-22 tons
Y-9 25 tons
KC- 390 19-23 tons
An-178 18 tons would have been a good option too but I frankly don't know what's the status after Crimean war. However, Turkey-Ukraine had some collaboration to work on a medium lifter based on the An-178. If it is still there than we will have another option from Turkey.
However, the Saudi-Ukrainian An-132 (around 9 tons load capacity) which is in the same category as CASA-295. Can form a good basis for AWACS and already has the EW version being worked out. We can get those from Saudis on deferred payment or installments. Plus platform commonality should drive down associated costs also.
NOTE: All non Chinese and non Russian planes do have the issues of American components though.


----------



## khanasifm

Paid OTE="Zohaib Advocate, post: 9307713, member: 183298"]I believe by the time PAF will look to replace Hercules, there will be quite a few options. The around 20 tonnes payload category is getting saturated.
C-130 20-22 tons
Y-9 25 tons
KC- 390 19-23 tons
An-178 18 tons would have been a good option too but I frankly don't know what's the status after Crimean war. However, Turkey-Ukraine had some collaboration to work on a medium lifter based on the An-178. If it is still there than we will have another option from Turkey.
However, the Saudi-Ukrainian An-132 (around 9 tons load capacity) which is in the same category as CASA-295. Can form a good basis for AWACS and already has the EW version being worked out. We can get those from Saudis on deferred payment or installments. Plus platform commonality should drive down associated costs also.
NOTE: All non Chinese and non Russian planes do have the issues of American components though.[/QUOTE]


Paf has too much investment in c130, t56 Engine, crew training, and now structural rebuild being a third world country air force it cannot afforded 120 million c130j s most probably will pick up additional used c130 s and rebuild to squeeze additional life


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

khanasifm said:


> Paid OTE="Zohaib Advocate, post: 9307713, member: 183298"]I believe by the time PAF will look to replace Hercules, there will be quite a few options. The around 20 tonnes payload category is getting saturated.
> C-130 20-22 tons
> Y-9 25 tons
> KC- 390 19-23 tons
> An-178 18 tons would have been a good option too but I frankly don't know what's the status after Crimean war. However, Turkey-Ukraine had some collaboration to work on a medium lifter based on the An-178. If it is still there than we will have another option from Turkey.
> However, the Saudi-Ukrainian An-132 (around 9 tons load capacity) which is in the same category as CASA-295. Can form a good basis for AWACS and already has the EW version being worked out. We can get those from Saudis on deferred payment or installments. Plus platform commonality should drive down associated costs also.
> NOTE: All non Chinese and non Russian planes do have the issues of American components though.




Paf has too much investment in c130, t56 Engine, crew training, and now structural rebuild being a third world country air force it cannot afforded 120 million c130j s most probably will pick up additional used c130 s and rebuild to squeeze additional life[/QUOTE]


Yes, I agree with you. This will infact be the primary option. All others will be secondary.
My point revolves around the hypothesis, "if we do see a revolution in PAF" but since we are not a revolutionary nation. Our institutions are also not revolutionary. So no other way but to bank on evolution.


----------



## WarFariX

Rocky rock said:


> Lolx you're considering Y-9 better than Y-20?
> 
> it's like comparing F-7 with FA-18 Hornet. Y-9 is having Turboprop Engine with Max-take off capacity of 77,000kg whereas Y-20 is equipped Turbofan by having Thrust of 12 to 14k of Thrust. & can take 220,000 kg as Max,Take off weight.
> 
> So Y-20 Matches for future requirements of Pakistan. but Pakistan like Turboprop engine for savin money so who knows.


answer my question . What are the exact requirements of PAF in terms of transport platform ?


----------



## ali_raza

nothing until now is in anyway near to c130 in over all package


----------



## Rocky rock

MarvellousThunder@PDC said:


> answer my question . What are the exact requirements of PAF in terms of transport platform ?


I'm not Transport Manager of PAF. I'm talking about preference that we should opt for good platform rather than saving money policy as usual and than overhaul some junk again n again.

So i would recommend Y-20 as our future requirements are about to increase so as the Technology so it's better to go for Turbofan this time and medium to heavy range Aircraft.


----------



## fatman17

mdcp said:


> Y 20 is best why we always talk about cheap option and compromise on performace.
> 
> We need heavy lift helicopters for heavy machinery deployment, ammo, tropps in high mountains.


Y20 is not a mature platform. let's see how it develops.


----------



## nomi007

C-130 is best transport aircraft
Paf will C-130B / E / H
with latest C-130J-30
we have more than 50yrs of experience on the Hercules


----------



## nomi007

*Pakistan* #*PAF* #*Il*-78 at #*Faisal*. Before leaving for #*Russia*? GE DOI 2/4/17 & 1/31/17

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> *Pakistan* #*PAF* #*Il*-78 at #*Faisal*. Before leaving for #*Russia*? GE DOI 2/4/17 & 1/31/17
> View attachment 386811
> View attachment 386812


How do we know


----------



## fatman17

Herk

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

fatman17 said:


> How do we know


https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## razgriz19

Rocky rock said:


> Lolx you're considering Y-9 better than Y-20?
> 
> it's like comparing F-7 with FA-18 Hornet. Y-9 is having Turboprop Engine with Max-take off capacity of 77,000kg whereas Y-20 is equipped Turbofan by having Thrust of 12 to 14k of Thrust. & can take 220,000 kg as Max,Take off weight.
> 
> So Y-20 Matches for future requirements of Pakistan. but Pakistan like Turboprop engine for savin money so who knows.


So according to hour logic, militaries buy turbo props because they don't have money for turbofan transport aircraft?
Lol. Platforms are bought as per lifting requirements and there are many other aspects they have to look at. And just FYI, many turboprop platforms are expensive to operate than their turbofan counterpart.


----------



## khanasifm

razgriz19 said:


> So according to hour logic, militaries buy turbo props because they don't have money for turbofan transport aircraft?
> Lol. Platforms are bought as per lifting requirements and there are many other aspects they have to look at. And just FYI, many turboprop platforms are expensive to operate than their turbofan counterpart.




Turbo prop are cheaper to operate then turbo fan usually

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven


Speculation


----------



## razgriz19

khanasifm said:


> Turbo prop are cheaper to operate then turbo fan usually


Yeah most of them are. But my point was every aircraft is built with a specific mission in mind. Our fanboys don't seem to get that concept. Y-20 can only fill a very niche demand in PAF. Bulk of our heavy lifting is done through railways as it's a lot cheaper, hence only four IL-76 in inventory. And you can't use heavy cargoes like a commuter as their life is based on cycles. Most of the time heavies just sit around as smaller aircraft can get the job done. Herc is that aircraft for PAF. You will see more hercs flying than il76 on any given day.
Just because Y20 is bigger, doesn't mean it's better for our needs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

_AFM_’s World Air Forces Correspondent Alan Warnes reports that the Pakistan Air Force’s 130th Air Engineering Depot (AED) recently completed the overhaul of its 50th Hercules, C-130B 3536 built in 1958. On March 15, the unit hosted a ceremony at PAF Base Nur Khan with Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman, the PAF’s Chief of the Air Staff as the most prominent guest.

The aptly titled 130th AED is tasked with the maintenance of the PAF’s fleet of 16 C-130 Hercules, made up of five C-130Bs, ten C-130Es and a sole L-100 built initially for the civil market. Until 1993, the unit worked on the C-130s on an Inspect and Repair as Necessary (IRAN) basis, but this involved the Hercules being sent to different facilities around the world.


----------



## fatman17

Rockwell Collins to upgrade Pakistan Air Force C-130 Hercules military airlifters

Rockwell Collins’ Flight2 avionics system has been selected by the Pakistan Air Force through the Foreign Military Sales Office, Warner Robins, Georgia, for the upgrade of up to 11 C-130E and 5 C-130B aircraft. Rockwell Collins will provide the integrated avionics suite along with training and technical support during installation. Additional support includes consolidated flight manuals, checklists and maintenance supplements required to operate and maintain the fleet.

Rockwell Collins to upgrade Pakistan Air Force C 130 Hercules m



ilitary airlifters 640 001Rockwell Collins' Flight2 avionics system will be fitted on PAF C-130 Hercules aircraft
(Credit: Rockwell Collins)

“Pakistan Air Force pilots will experience greater situational awareness and communications capabilities with the highly advanced avionics onboard these aircraft,” said Dave Schreck, vice president and general manager of Airborne Solutions for Rockwell Collins. “Through our work with the Pakistan Air Force, we look forward to continuing our long legacy of helping C-130 pilots achieve their missions with these important upgrades.”

The Rockwell Collins Flight2 avionics system will provide the Pakistan C-130 aircraft with unrestricted access to global airspace by meeting current Communication, Navigation, Surveillance/Air Traffic Management airspace requirements.

Included in the avionics upgrade is a full glass cockpit with new primary flight displays, Required Navigation Performance Area Navigation flight management system with High Altitude Release Point and Computed Air Release Point precision airdrop software. Additional equipment includes a modern digital autopilot, Very High Frequency, High Frequency, and SATCOM communications, navigation sensors, and safety and surveillance systems including Weather Radar, Traffic Collision Avoidance System, Terrain Awareness and Warning System and digital map. The upgrade will provide the Pakistan Air Force with state-of-the-art capabilities consistent with the world’s leading C-130 operators.

Work will be performed in Pakistan and is expected to be complete by Dec. 31, 2020.


----------



## Cool_Soldier

Will that upgrade make our C-130 close to to new version J....?


----------



## fatman17

Cool_Soldier said:


> Will that upgrade make our C-130 close to to new version J....?


No H

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cool_Soldier

That would great supplement for PA Transport fleet as nearly 80 percent fleet consists of C-130 for long time.


----------



## fatman17

Count the engines on this Antanov

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## niaz

If you don’t have powerful engines, simply use more of the same. Russians did it with the first Sputnik & the first main in space and now with the transport aircraft.

Example of the Russian solution; simple but effective.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 389619
> 
> Count the engines on this Antanov


Sir jee its PS ....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Saleem Hatoum2

HRK said:


> Sir jee its PS ....



Yes, it is big time PS


----------



## fatman17

HRK said:


> Sir jee its PS ....


Ok but a nice PS


----------



## nomi007

fatman17 said:


> Ok but a nice PS


posting in wrong thread


----------



## mingle

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 389619
> 
> Count the engines on this Antanov


Sir G photoshop


----------



## fatman17

mingle said:


> Sir G photoshop


I've been told so [emoji5]


----------



## fatman17

Y20 Transport in action.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Readerdefence

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 393273
> View attachment 393274
> View attachment 393275
> 
> Y20 Transport in action.


The one flying out y-9 with 6 blade


----------



## fatman17

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 393841
> View attachment 393842


Seems to be the upgraded cockpit


----------



## fatman17

Ex RAF C130 in PAF service


----------



## nomi007

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 393273
> View attachment 393274
> View attachment 393275
> 
> Y20 Transport in action.


posting y-20 in paf transport threads is irrelevant

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hassan Guy

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-importance-of-a-turboprop-aircraft-industry-in-pakistan.477553/


----------



## fatman17

nomi007 said:


> posting y-20 in paf transport threads is irrelevant


As you wish sir


----------



## razgriz19

Canada is retiring their E/H Hercs, PAF should at least look into the H models. They can be useful to them.


----------



## khanasifm

If free than sure go gor it as spare recovery


----------



## fatman17

razgriz19 said:


> Canada is retiring their E/H Hercs, PAF should at least look into the H models. They can be useful to them.


Not at this point as all Herks are undergoing structural and cockpit upgrades. presently 16 aircraft are deemed sufficient.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Lockheed C-130E Hercules (serial number 64310) in 1993 advertisement of Singapore Aerospace

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

World's largest transport


----------



## ali_raza

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 397724
> 
> World's largest transport
> View attachment 397725


that is behemoth task


----------



## Readerdefence

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 397724
> 
> World's largest transport
> View attachment 397725


Some of the tyres are in really bad shape here these kind of tyres on tracks will get 6 points on license


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Our old grandpa c-130 could be replaced by ebraer kc390 or the new antonov jet we could do a jv. My 2 cents.


----------



## fatman17

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Our old grandpa c-130 could be replaced by ebraer kc390 or the new antonov jet we could do a jv. My 2 cents.


The Herks are here to stay for a while.


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

Air Platforms

Lockheed Martin marks maiden flight of LM-100J

Gareth Jennings, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

26 May 2017





The first flight of the LM-100J civil variant Hercules took place on 25 May. Source: Lockheed Martin

Lockheed Martin performed the first flight of its new LM-100J Hercules airlifter on 25 May.

The latest civil variant of the military C-130J departed the company's Marietta production facility in Georgia for a maiden flight that its test pilot described as 'flawless'. This milestone, which follows the rollout in February, clears the way for a flight test campaign and Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) type certification.

Lockheed Martin has launched this 17th mission capability that it has developed for the C-130J to broaden its market in the face of shrinking of global defence budgets in general, and of Pentagon budgets in particular.

As with the earlier L-100 variant of the Hercules that was built between 1964 and 1992 (during which time 115 were delivered), the LM-100J is earmarked for a range of civil applications such as oversized cargo transport; oil dispersion/aerial spray; oil and gas exploration; mining logistics operations; aerial firefighting; aerial delivery; medevac/air ambulance; humanitarian relief operations; personnel transport; austere field operations; and search and rescue.

Although billed as a commercial platform, the LM-100J will also be targeted at governmental and military users who perhaps do not require some of the more advanced, and consequently more expensive, features of the C-130J. For example, secure communications and electronic warfare equipment, racks, and wiring are all eliminated in the civil aircraft. As well as reducing the procurement cost (Lockheed Martin has previously given a unit cost of about USD60 million and USD70 million for an LM-130J, compared to approximately USD100 million for a C-130J), this reduces weight and fuel costs, as well as maintenance and sustainment costs. As such, the company sees a particular application with the militaries of some of the less developed parts of the world, such as Latin America, Africa, and parts of Asia.

Military customers that have acquired the L-100 have included Argentina, Ecuador, Gabon, Indonesia, Libya, Peru, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mil-avia

Unlocking the big data treasure chest for aviation


----------



## Thorough Pro

O saday mamay lagday nay jo mufat dain gay?



khanasifm said:


> If free than sure go gor it as spare recovery


----------



## nomi007

finally find full detail


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

nomi007 said:


> finally find full detail
> View attachment 404855



I think C-27 spartan is better than casa 295. 


Peoples of PDF what do u guys think about A-400m replacing Ilyushins as it can also function as a refueler in MRTT configuration. Or maybe its addition on its own. THoughts guys!?


----------



## nomi007

Ahmet Pasha said:


> I think C-27 spartan is better than casa 295.
> 
> 
> Peoples of PDF what do u guys think about A-400m replacing Ilyushins as it can also function as a refueler in MRTT configuration. Or maybe its addition on its own. THoughts guys!?


no c295 is better


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

What about a400m as MRTT


----------



## Super Falcon

Y 20 is cheaper and has better range and most importantly it comes from china


----------



## fatman17

Whattay beautiful bird

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Ahmet Pasha said:


> What about a400m as MRTT


It would be better if the PAF could get the A330 MRTT. It can refuel by boom (i.e. F-16) and hose-and-drogue (i.e. JF-17). It has the fuel efficiency of an airliner and can double as a transport for ferrying personnel, spare parts, supplies, etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

Super Falcon said:


> Y 20 is cheaper and has better range and most importantly it comes from china


who said that y-20 is cheaper


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

I'm sure PIA might have some a330s. Is it possible to configure them as MRTT.


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> It would be better if the PAF could get the A330 MRTT. It can refuel by boom (i.e. F-16) and hose-and-drogue (i.e. JF-17). It has the fuel efficiency of an airliner and can double as a transport for ferrying personnel, spare parts, supplies, etc.


----------



## Super Falcon

nomi007 said:


> who said that y-20 is cheaper


If you compare it with C 17 and A 400 it is cheeper

Is it a rocket science to understand


----------



## fatman17

Ahmet Pasha said:


> I'm sure PIA might have some a330s. Is it possible to configure them as MRTT.


Derelict condition


----------



## Captain77W

fatman17 said:


> Derelict condition


PIA never had any A330s only recently retired A310s which are no longer airworthy


----------



## khail007

Ahmet Pasha said:


> I'm sure PIA might have some a330s. Is it possible to configure them as MRTT.



PIA never owns A330s but A310.


----------



## nomi007

GooD for PIA


----------



## Readerdefence

Suleman Siddiqui said:


> PIA never had any A330s only recently retired A310s which are no longer airworthy


Hi they can become airworthy if they haven't sold like peanuts 
Or been given to airforce without getting any peanuts and they can make them airworthy 
With. Their budget 
Thx


----------



## Captain77W

Readerdefence said:


> Hi they can become airworthy if they haven't sold like peanuts
> Or been given to airforce without getting any peanuts and they can make them airworthy
> With. Their budget
> Thx


They have reached their airframe cycle limit and it will be unsafe for them to continue to fly Best option for the PAF is to get Barely used A340s from the Desert and convert those

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Just a nice pic

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 373783
> C130 boneyard?


So no need to worry about spares 



nomi007 said:


> *Pakistan* #*PAF* #*Il*-78 at #*Faisal*. Before leaving for #*Russia*? GE DOI 2/4/17 & 1/31/17
> View attachment 386811
> View attachment 386812


PAF should acquire at least some 7-8 additional IL-76s and try to work with Ukraine or Russia in building an overhaul facility in Pakistan for it. As I think the role of these aircraft are increasing and PAF might need around 15-20 of such aircraft soon!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Oxair Online said:


> So no need to worry about spares
> 
> 
> PAF should acquire at least some 7-8 additional IL-76s and try to work with Ukraine or Russia in building an overhaul facility in Pakistan for it. As I think the role of these aircraft are increasing and PAF might need around 15-20 of such aircraft soon!


I doubt it. Both Herks and Il78s are being upgraded currently.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

The only real need on the logistics front is for a boom-capable tanker to operate with the F-16s. Seeing the limited use of boom-type refueling, it is not surprising that options on this front are severely limited. 

The only ones making boom probes are Boeing, Airbus DS and IAI. Unfortunately, Boeing and Airbus DS are focused on securing sales for their flagship platforms - i.e. KC-46 and A330 MRTT - and probably won't sell the boom-probe as a stand-alone product for a bespoke solution. IAI would do it, but Pakistan can't be a direct customer.

On the other hand, there is the option of making a bespoke/custom hose-and-drogue refueling aircraft. 

I know the PAF has the IL-78, but I doubt the IL-78 can best a commercial airliner in fuel efficiency. For the task of air-to-air refueling, you want the tanker to preserve as much fuel as possible. The PAF has the theoretical option of looking at mothballed or used airliners and configuring them with Cobham Wing Air Refueling Pods (WARP).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Gufi

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The only real need on the logistics front is for a boom-capable tanker to operate with the F-16s. Seeing the limited use of boom-type refueling, it is not surprising that options on this front are severely limited.


It is worrying that our strike platforms have no air to air refuelling capability limiting the options of air bases they can be deployed from for offensive missions. Looks like a very defensive approach is being taken by the PAF with the missiles replacing the role of destroying targets on the other side of the border. 
With contested airspace, I do wonder how easy refuelling would be in contested airspace as it is. 


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> On the other hand, there is the option of making a bespoke/custom hose-and-drogue refueling aircraft.


probably some conditions against using them for refuelling. Also it does seem that the F 16 is the last plane we will be getting from the USA, so an investment would not be especially appealing.


----------



## The Accountant

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The only real need on the logistics front is for a boom-capable tanker to operate with the F-16s. Seeing the limited use of boom-type refueling, it is not surprising that options on this front are severely limited.
> 
> The only ones making boom probes are Boeing, Airbus DS and IAI. Unfortunately, Boeing and Airbus DS are focused on securing sales for their flagship platforms - i.e. KC-46 and A330 MRTT - and probably won't sell the boom-probe as a stand-alone product for a bespoke solution. IAI would do it, but Pakistan can't be a direct customer.
> 
> On the other hand, there is the option of making a bespoke/custom hose-and-drogue refueling aircraft.
> 
> I know the PAF has the IL-78, but I doubt the IL-78 can best a commercial airliner in fuel efficiency. For the task of air-to-air refueling, you want the tanker to preserve as much fuel as possible. The PAF has the theoretical option of looking at mothballed or used airliners and configuring them with Cobham Wing Air Refueling Pods (WARP).


Is there ny possibility f developing such a system at home ? 

Furthermore, do our F16 have IFR probe or will US ever allow to have it (If we already don't have it) ?


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

The Accountant said:


> Is there ny possibility f developing such a system at home ?
> 
> Furthermore, do our F16 have IFR probe or will US ever allow to have it (If we already don't have it) ?


We'd be talking about 4 aircraft at most, it would be cost effective - and quicker - to import the airliner and Cobham WARP and undertake the integration and testing work at Kamra. The PAF's F-16s can refuel via boom, but for hose-and-drogue, it can (technically) be done using the Block-52's CFT and the external/wing-based fuel tanks on the others.



Gufi said:


> It is worrying that our strike platforms have no air to air refuelling capability limiting the options of air bases they can be deployed from for offensive missions. Looks like a very defensive approach is being taken by the PAF with the missiles replacing the role of destroying targets on the other side of the border.
> With contested airspace, I do wonder how easy refuelling would be in contested airspace as it is.
> 
> probably some conditions against using them for refuelling. Also it does seem that the F 16 is the last plane we will be getting from the USA, so an investment would not be especially appealing.


Not sure if the restrictions - if any - are decisive. There are many civilian airliners and jets that have been converted for military purposes, be it IFR, ISR, EW/ECM/ESM and MPA.

It's not just refueling for strike. The JF-17 is a small aircraft, by having IFR available some units can undertake longer sorties and/or carry more weapons and fewer (or no) fuel tanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Accountant

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> We'd be talking about 4 aircraft at most, it would be cost effective - and quicker - to import the airliner and Cobham WARP and undertake the integration and testing work at Kamra. The PAF's F-16s can refuel via boom, but for hose-and-drogue, it can (technically) be done using the Block-52's CFT and the external/wing-based fuel tanks on the others.
> 
> 
> Not sure if the restrictions - if any - are decisive. There are many civilian airliners and jets that have been converted for military purposes, be it IFR, ISR, EW/ECM/ESM and MPA.
> 
> It's not just refueling for strike. The JF-17 is a small aircraft, by having IFR available some units can undertake longer sorties and/or carry more weapons and fewer (or no) fuel tanks.



But what about installing development of just a refueling system and using the existing refueler for the same purpose ... Developing a refueling system cannot be much costly, however, it can or cannot be technically difficult of which I am not sure about ...


----------



## Incog_nito

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The only real need on the logistics front is for a boom-capable tanker to operate with the F-16s. Seeing the limited use of boom-type refueling, it is not surprising that options on this front are severely limited.
> 
> The only ones making boom probes are Boeing, Airbus DS and IAI. Unfortunately, Boeing and Airbus DS are focused on securing sales for their flagship platforms - i.e. KC-46 and A330 MRTT - and probably won't sell the boom-probe as a stand-alone product for a bespoke solution. IAI would do it, but Pakistan can't be a direct customer.
> 
> On the other hand, there is the option of making a bespoke/custom hose-and-drogue refueling aircraft.
> 
> I know the PAF has the IL-78, but I doubt the IL-78 can best a commercial airliner in fuel efficiency. For the task of air-to-air refueling, you want the tanker to preserve as much fuel as possible. The PAF has the theoretical option of looking at mothballed or used airliners and configuring them with Cobham Wing Air Refueling Pods (WARP).


I think the best option would be A330 MRTT and about 4-5 of them. PAF is moving towards JF-17s and J-XX so they all use probe based refueling system. But then we would need A330 as a probe refueler.


----------



## Captain77W

The KC46 also looks promising in any case PIA pilots will be able to fly both as they share a common cockpit with the A320 and 777


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

The Accountant said:


> But what about installing development of just a refueling system and using the existing refueler for the same purpose ... Developing a refueling system cannot be much costly, however, it can or cannot be technically difficult of which I am not sure about ...


There are 4 or 5 companies in the entire world that produce air-to-air refueling transfer systems. It may not be that complex, but it seems the vast majority of countries would prefer buying off-the-shelf. It could be cost. It could be complexity in terms of being able to provide fuel-transfer at a quick rate and with minimal risk of leakage or danger.


----------



## khanasifm

Kc-46 has been delayed for how many years now and delayed further due to technical and other issues ???


Also is paf looking to pick up additional used c130s ???


----------



## fatman17

khanasifm said:


> Kc-46 has been delayed for how many years now and delayed further due to technical and other issues ???
> 
> 
> Also is paf looking to pick up additional used c130s ???


I doubt it


----------



## nomi007

up gradation plans for B/E models

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

1963 
C130 joins the PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/894795506848804864Watch


----------



## nomi007

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 416675
> 
> 1963
> C130 joins the PAF


ALLAH di mehrabani de naal aj vee aa aircraft active service ne

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRK



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## denel

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 412681
> 
> Just a nice pic


We are still flying Daks but completely rebuilt and with turboprops and revised avionics/cockpit/navigation

80 yrs + and still going on......

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

denel said:


> We are still flying Daks but completely rebuilt and with turboprops and revised avionics/cockpit/navigation
> 
> 80 yrs + and still going on......


That's great. nice pic


----------



## niaz

denel said:


> We are still flying Daks but completely rebuilt and with turboprops and revised avionics/cockpit/navigation
> 
> 80 yrs + and still going on......



During my early days as an engineering student, even the handy calculators were rare. We used the “Slide rule” to calculate thickness of the plate & the strength of the materials, added 5% to account for the inaccuracy of the ‘slide rule’ and added another 10 to 20% as the ‘safety’ margin.

In my humble opinion, since the two American aircrafts, C-47 / Dakota /DC-3 and the Boeing B-52 were designed in the days before computers took over the design process; these aircraft were ‘over engineered’. This resulted in added cost but turned out machines that were rugged and solid as a rock. The result is evident from the fact that DC-3 introduced in 1936 is still in service in a few countries. I personally saw a DC-3 operated by Buffalo Airways of Canada a few years ago.

However as you correctly pointed out, DC-3 of today may outwardly look the same as the DC- 3 of the WW2, but internally nothing is the same. For example DC-3 was originally a piston engine aircraft but now fitted with the Turboprops and with modern avionics.

Similarly B-52 has also been heavily modernised. I would not be surprised if these ubiquitous birds are still flying in 2030.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## denel

niaz said:


> During my early days as an engineering student, even the handy calculators were rare. We used the “Slide rule” to calculate thickness of the plate & the strength of the materials, added 5% to account for the inaccuracy of the ‘slide rule’ and added another 10 to 20% as the ‘safety’ margin.
> 
> In my humble opinion, since the two American aircrafts, C-47 / Dakota /DC-3 and the Boeing B-52 were designed in the days before computers took over the design process; these aircraft were ‘over engineered’. This resulted in added cost but turned out machines that were rugged and solid as a rock. The result is evident from the fact that DC-3 introduced in 1936 is still in service in a few countries. I personally saw a DC-3 operated by Buffalo Airways of Canada a few years ago.
> 
> However as you correctly pointed out, DC-3 of today may outwardly look the same as the DC- 3 of the WW2, but internally nothing is the same. For example DC-3 was originally a piston engine aircraft but now fitted with the Turboprops and with modern avionics.
> 
> Similarly B-52 has also been heavily modernised. I would not be surprised if these ubiquitous birds are still flying in 2030.


the daks gave us steller service and even against all odds we were flying missing deep into angola with them; on one occasion an rpg sent straight thru the fuselage and another one rpg 7 was still lodged in the tail section. then decision was made to upgrade these aircraft - rather rebuild them back to back with modern materials, engines etc; that gave them a brand new lease of life. I have seen documentaries where these are still flying as coaches in south america.
Yes, i was using slide rule in 80s' in high school; the margin of error was always there - calculators were not allowed in exam except log tables or slide rules.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MastanKhan

niaz said:


> Similarly B-52 has also been heavily modernised. I would not be surprised if these ubiquitous birds are still flying in 2030.



Hi,

The upgraded B52's got a new 40-50 years lease on life---so some will see them till 2060

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mil-avia

*Size comparison of YS-11A and Q400 (Dash 8) aircraft :






*
Related link(s).


----------



## Stealth

*My shot - Pakistan Airforce fleet... 3X IL78 Tankers and 5X C130 Hercules (2 clearly visible) in a single shot 




*

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## haroonn

Stealth said:


> *My shot - Pakistan Airforce fleet... 3X IL78 Tankers and 5X C130 Hercules (2 clearly visible) in a single shot
> 
> View attachment 429393
> *



Very nicely captured.. aircraft closest to camera is CN-235..


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

Stealth said:


> *My shot - Pakistan Airforce fleet... 3X IL78 Tankers and 5X C130 Hercules (2 clearly visible) in a single shot
> 
> View attachment 429393
> *



Now that is one GREAT SHOT.
but is it not too dangerous to accumulate most of our transport and tankers at one place too dangerous. Just like what happened to the Saab Eeriyes or the P3Cs of Navy.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

Advocate Pakistan said:


> Now that is one GREAT SHOT.
> but is it not too dangerous to accumulate most of our transport and tankers at one place too dangerous. Just like what happened to the Saab Eeriyes or the P3Cs of Navy.


Yep, AF waiting for PIA to move out of the civilian side of the airport, in other words waiting for new civil airport to commence ops


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

Static-line jump 
#SSG #C130
@defencepk https://t.co/EogB8ZScvb


----------



## Hassan Guy

Will PAF buy the C-130J?


----------



## fatman17

Hassan Guy said:


> Will PAF buy the C-130J?


If it has the funds yes, but unfortunately it doesn't. The current upgrade of the C130s will let them fly beyond 2020.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

Hassan Guy said:


> Will PAF buy the C-130J?


Cannot see spare funds for that. For now it will be C130 upgrades and later on may be some Chinese option to suppport/replace C130s


----------



## Hassan Guy

Arsalan said:


> Cannot see spare funds for that. For now it will be C130 upgrades and later on may be some Chinese option to suppport/replace C130s


C27J?


----------



## khail007

nomi007 said:


>



Bristol freighter - workhorse of PAF; Pre C130 era
Love it, in my childhood took many rides on it and also on C130.
Golden memories.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chak Bamu

khail007 said:


> Bristol freighter - workhorse of PAF; Pre C130 era
> Love it, in my childhood took many rides on it and also on C130.
> Golden memories.



Sir, please post more often.

I would love to know more about your experiences and memories.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Hassan Guy said:


> C27J?


May be this one
*Y-8




or this one
Y-9




or this Y-20





*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

pakistanipower said:


> May be this one
> *Y-8
> View attachment 435544
> 
> or this one
> Y-9
> View attachment 435545
> 
> or this Y-20
> View attachment 435611
> 
> 
> *


A couple of Y20s would make sense for strategic airlift.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Picking up 10 - *Y-20 *would be good investment , investment with 25 years forward thinking.
Or picking up used C130 would also be good idea.

However , I assume the Y-20 would have better avionics and better flying controls and would be a real modernization of Transport areas of Military

Adding used C130 would also be quite acceptable as we have support for that aircraft


----------



## Arsalan

Hassan Guy said:


> C27J?


No good!
Too small compared to what we use currently so wont fit it as a replacement. Y-9 is a suitable cadidate with performance matching that of C-130J

An added advantage of going to China is that we get a chance to include strategic airlift options as well in shape of Y20



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Picking up 10 - *Y-20 *would be good investment , investment with 25 years forward thinking.
> Or picking up used C130 would also be good idea.
> 
> However , I assume the Y-20 would have better avionics and better flying controls and would be a real modernization of Transport areas of Military
> 
> Adding used C130 would also be quite acceptable as we have support for that aircraft


C130 and Y20 are different category planes. Y20 will be considered ONLY if the demand is to go for strategic airlift options. Currently that is the role being performed by Il-78 in some capacity.


----------



## volatile

Pakistan doesn't need Strategic lift since the geography is quite small , we need proper road and rail networks to move troops

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

In all likelihood, jets will not replace the prop-based C-130s, which provide valuable operational capabilities in poorly developed areas, hot and high conditions and against debris. When the time comes to replace the C-130B/E, the PAF will likely look at used C-130J, new LM-100J or whatever new gen prop is available at the C-130's size class. I'd prefer the Antonov An-70.


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Y20. Will China export this type

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 436768
> 
> Y20. Will China export this type



Beautiful.
Here's what I found on Google. Which aircraft is in the foreground? Seems different structure in lower half. Amphibious probably?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mrrehan

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> In all likelihood, jets will not replace the prop-based C-130s, which provide valuable operational capabilities in poorly developed areas, hot and high conditions and against debris. When the time comes to replace the C-130B/E, the PAF will likely look at used C-130J, new LM-100J or whatever new gen prop is available at the C-130's size class. I'd prefer the Antonov An-70.




I agree with you it's better to look for An-70 price wise and performance wise similar to C-130J

Presentation of the Antonov AN-70.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

This plane seems quite similar to the A400M


mrrehan said:


> I agree with you it's better to look for An-70 price wise and performance wise similar to C-130J
> 
> Presentation of the Antonov AN-70.


----------



## mrrehan

Ahmet Pasha said:


> This plane seems quite similar to the A400M



Yes if you are ignoring everything and considering only the purpose of logistics.


----------



## TOPGUN

Would love to see some Y-20's as heavy lift in PAF in the near future !!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Pakistan Airforce C-130 delivered relief assistance for Iran quake victims of Kermanshah to Red Crescent in Tehran. It is worth noting that Iranian Government has accepted humanitarian aid only from Pakistan. https://t.co/s6ctCKoiPr

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

PAF’s prestigious No. 6 Squadron celebrates its 75th anniversary https://t.co/NlgfvSHMGM

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17




----------



## alphaxyz

I am a fan on Pakistan procurement, particularly by army. But in case of air transport, both AF and Army seem to be lacking in edge. So, most transport happens by land or what? Given the size of land mass, this seems good option also economic maybe. also I dont have figures for land transport equips for pakistan too. Also use of railways.


----------



## khail007

Advocate Pakistan said:


> Here's what I found on Google. Which aircraft is in the foreground? Seems different structure in lower half. Amphibious probably?


The one in foreground is world's largest amphibian plane AG600 by China, currently under trials - high speed taxi run already passed on 06th December 2017, if I am not wrong.


----------



## fatman17

Re: PAF C-130 Taking Part in Exercise Mobility Guardian in USAQuote

Post Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:07 am

Photographed departing from Joint Base Lewis–McChord, USA.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 443403


That's a badass logo.


----------



## fatman17

alphaxyz said:


> I am a fan on Pakistan procurement, particularly by army. But in case of air transport, both AF and Army seem to be lacking in edge. So, most transport happens by land or what? Given the size of land mass, this seems good option also economic maybe. also I dont have figures for land transport equips for pakistan too. Also use of railways.


rail and road are used extensively

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Chicago Bulls logo hehe


Windjammer said:


> View attachment 443403





Advocate Pakistan said:


> That's a badass logo.


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

Ahmet Pasha said:


> View attachment 443448
> 
> Chicago Bulls logo hehe


Yeah the bulls the same but the super imposition of frame hands gives it a "waah" feeling.


----------



## fatman17

Ahmet Pasha said:


> View attachment 443448
> 
> Chicago Bulls logo hehe


It's called steal with pride.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Maybe USAF gave it to all participants.



fatman17 said:


> It's called steal with pride.


----------



## GriffinsRule

Pakistani style of plagiarism. Nothing to be proud of, especially when coming from an esteemed organization. It should definitely be changed and the person who made it should be reprimanded.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

GriffinsRule said:


> Pakistani style of plagiarism. Nothing to be proud of, especially when coming from an esteemed organization. It should definitely be changed and the person who made it should be reprimanded.


Ease up mate. such happens all the time


----------



## alimobin memon

Ahmet Pasha said:


> View attachment 443448
> 
> Chicago Bulls logo hehe


Copy and paste, we should make something of our own entirely.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shiji

GriffinsRule said:


> Pakistani style of plagiarism. Nothing to be proud of, especially when coming from an esteemed organization. It should definitely be changed and the person who made it should be reprimanded.


Thank God your opinion holds iota weight to the PAF.


----------



## alimobin memon

Shiji said:


> Thank God your opinion holds iota weight to the PAF.



The opinion should matter especially when plagiarism is done by well non organization that represents the country internationally. Its a shame nothing to be proud of.



fatman17 said:


> It's called steal with pride.


You call this steal with pride ? its steal without shame.


----------



## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> It's called steal with pride.



Nah boss, a bull is a bull! We could not have designed one with a single horn or a beak now!! So once it was decided that we are going to go with a bull, this was pretty much it.



Advocate Pakistan said:


> *Yeah the bulls the same* but the super imposition of frame hands gives it a "waah" feeling.


NO, its not the same!!



GriffinsRule said:


> Pakistani style of plagiarism. Nothing to be proud of, especially when coming from an esteemed organization. It should definitely be changed and the person who made it should be reprimanded.


Come on!What plagiarism? ITS A BULL AND THEY ARE LIKE THIS ALL AROUND.

BTW, you people really did not spotted the differences?

I cannot believe i am going into these details and have decided to waste 10 min on this but here it go:






See the difference now? 



alimobin memon said:


> Copy and paste, we should make something of our own entirely.


LOLZ!

Yeah, designer bulls!



alimobin memon said:


> The opinion should matter especially when plagiarism is done by well non organization that represents the country internationally. Its a shame nothing to be proud of.
> 
> 
> You call this steal with pride ? its steal without shame.


I hope you realize that there are plenty of differences and it is just that being transport wing they just decided to go with a bull! That is it. 

@Windjammer

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer

One of PAF's C-130 Squadron (21TTS) participated in the exercise called ''Mobility Guardian" in USA in August 2017,
Hence, all the participants supported the badge.
@Arsalan 

__
https://flic.kr/p/38995599491

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17

Pakistan Air Force IL-78 over The Azores https://t.co/H3Fa0ItfaL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Captain77W

Windjammer said:


> One of PAF's C-130 Squadron (21TTS) participated in the exercise called ''Mobility Guardian" in USA in August 2017,
> Hence, all the participants supported the badge.
> @Arsalan
> 
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/38995599491


This C130 desperately needs a fresh coat of paint.


----------



## fatman17

Y20 up close

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TOPGUN

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 450173
> 
> Y20 up close



fatman17 , do you think PAF will go for a few of these birds ?


----------



## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> fatman17 , do you think PAF will go for a few of these birds ?


Eventually yes, as the US pipeline drys up. There is now a resolution in congress to permanently cut off US aid.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

China's AT200 cargo drone makes maiden flight

China's AT200 cargo drone makes maiden flight Source: Xinhua| 2017-10-27 20:21:13|Editor: Mengjie China's heaviest cargo unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) AT200 prepares for its maiden flight in Neifu Airport in Pucheng, northwest China's Shaanxi Province, Oct. 26, 2017. China's heaviest cargo unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) completed its maiden flight in northwest China's Shaanxi Province Thursday. With a maximum take-off weight of around 3.4 tonnes and a payload of 1.5 tonnes, the AT200 could be one of the world's most powerful civilian UAVs. (Xinhua)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

1 Feb 1979 
C-130B #23488 of the Pakistan Air Force jumped chocks during night engine test run, collided with #10687 and was written-off.

1 Feb 1979 
C-130E #10687 of the Pakistan Air Force hit by #23488 when it jumped chocks during night engine test run, written-off. Hull at Lahore, June 1981.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## python-000



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakShaheen79

Pakistan is in dire need of overhauling its tactical and strategic airlift capabilities. This is required not only for defense but for humanitarian aids in time of natural disasters like floods, droughts, and quakes. C-130s are too old. There are numerous of other options within reach, only missing link is will and vision among higher command of PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17




----------



## fatman17

PakShaheen79 said:


> Pakistan is in dire need of overhauling its tactical and strategic airlift capabilities. This is required not only for defense but for humanitarian aids in time of natural disasters like floods, droughts, and quakes. C-130s are too old. There are numerous of other options within reach, only missing link is will and vision among higher command of PAF.


PAF Herks are being given a structural and cockpit overhaul. Will continue to soldier on until 2020 at the minimum.


----------



## AMG_12

fatman17 said:


> PAF Herks are being given a structural and cockpit overhaul. Will continue to soldier on until 2020 at the minimum.


İ witnessed one C-130 undergoing structural overhaul in Chaklala this January. İt's wings were removed. I have a few snaps of the engine being repaired. I'll post them later on. BTW, after the upgrade, they are bound to operate late into the 2020s.







Game.Invade said:


> İ witnessed one C-130 undergoing structural overhaul in Chaklala this January. İt's wings were removed. I have a few snaps of the engine being repaired. I'll post them later on. BTW, after the upgrade, they are bound to operate late into the 2020s.


@fatman17

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

PAF's 130th AED overhauls the C-130 fleet. They had a ceremony last year around this time to celebrate the 50th overhaul.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakShaheen79

Sir that is indeed a good news but I am more concerned about the capability overhauling instead of fleet overhauling. What I mean is, Pakistan armed forces, particularly army, needs a strategic airlift capability to take full advantage of any opportunity that might offer itself to us during a war in far off and difficult to reach areas. Just imagine if we had strong airlift in 1984, the history of Siachen would have been written in a very different manner. Indian tactical and battlefield achievements in 1984, 1999 and 1948 in Kashmir were made possible due to the existence of a superior support arm in which logistics plays a key role. In kargil, PA had a clear vantage point on Leh-Srinagar road passing through Darass sector and movement of Indian supply vehicles were challenged for many days by PA but it was the airlift capability of IA which kept their troops in North supplied with arms, ammunition, food and other stuff required... 

By developing Y-20 Chinese have realized this ... despite building roads to the very end no nation can deny the importance of tactical and strategic airlift. when a road is constructed, it becomes a fixed target. The enemy always knows where it is, how to destroy it but if the road is supplemented with airlift, it provides a redundant connectivity and supply means when and where is required. Indians have pumped a considerable amount of money in this area, whereas PA still relying on old C-130s. There must be other platforms to complements existing fleet along with some heavy lifting helicopters to keep the troops with supplies in Northern areas where daily or routine sorties are not possible due to weather conditions. Lack of this led to PA losing Jinnah Post in Siachen, Remember!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Today In Aviation History

On March 1, 1963, Lockheed C-130B Hercules four-engine turboprop military transport aircraft inducted into Pakistan Air Force fleet. C-130 Hercules has been the PAF's primary tactical transport aircraft since its induction. https://t.co/hVbTqNGihT

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PakShaheen79

1963 - C-130s
2018 - Still C-130s

This explains everything went wrong with PAF's air lifting planning.


----------



## muhammadali233

PakShaheen79 said:


> 1963 - C-130s
> 2018 - Still C-130s
> 
> This explains everything went wrong with PAF's air lifting planning.


CN-235 or saab 2000 kya sohial aman ki phuppo kay liye hain?
Jk in all seriousness 
235,2000 and even IL-78 are being used so no need for addittional planes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

PakShaheen79 said:


> 1963 - C-130s
> 2018 - Still C-130s
> 
> This explains everything went wrong with PAF's air lifting planning.



There are 1200+ C-130s flying in air forces across the world. Out of these, only around 30% are the latest J model which was first introduced back in 1991 (75% of which are operated by USAF and USMC alone). So, there is nothing wrong with operating the C-130s from the 60s till now, but it just goes to show how durable and versatile the platform really is. PAF had its fleet refurbished and upgraded with newer avionics and engines over the years and will see service for quite some time. Hopefully there will be more H models coming on to the market that we could acquire down the line.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## razgriz19

PakShaheen79 said:


> 1963 - C-130s
> 2018 - Still C-130s
> 
> This explains everything went wrong with PAF's air lifting planning.


Canada operates highly used C-130s with the most amount of operating hours than any other nation. If they can do it, so can PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SQ8

PakShaheen79 said:


> 1963 - C-130s
> 2018 - Still C-130s
> 
> This explains everything went wrong with PAF's air lifting planning.


USAF 

1952 - B-52
2018 - B-52
Planned retirement date 2045
Just took an aircraft first built in 1961 out of the boneyard to fly again.


1956 - C-130
2018 - C-130

Oldest C-130 in service built 1963.

That explains everything wrong with your attempt to draw some conclusions with years in service and then blanket attribute it to the PAF as some shoddy authoritative statement.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GriffinsRule

Yeah, the USAF just retired its 2nd oldest C-130 in 2015 or 2016 after in service for over 50 years


----------



## PakShaheen79

Oscar said:


> USAF
> 
> 1952 - B-52
> 2018 - B-52
> Planned retirement date 2045
> Just took an aircraft first built in 1961 out of the boneyard to fly again.
> 
> 
> 1956 - C-130
> 2018 - C-130
> 
> Oldest C-130 in service built 1963.
> 
> That explains everything wrong with your attempt to draw some conclusions with years in service and then blanket attributes it to the PAF as some shoddy authoritative statement.



Sir Problem is they are doing it out of choice NOT OUT OF COMPULSION like us. An industry-level program is running for replacing them since 2010 and the process is underway. 
Next, comparing a strategic bomber with a tactical airlifter to prove a point is simply beyond me. Both have very different purposes and roles. Plus, unlike C-130 being our only tactical airlifter, USAF has a plethora of options other than B-52 to bomb anyone anywhere in the world. So this comparison is misplaced. 
Still, I am guilty as charged! No debate there. Now, agar Jaan ki Aman paon tau ....
What I actually wanted to highlight and everyone ignored (I am positive no deliberately) ... have we ever analyze the modernization of IAF tactical and strategic lift capabilities. Plus, when I said, "still C-130s" .. it does not necessarily means I am asking for induction of new planes, but new platforms like helicopters capable to keep our troops supplied with food and ammo so that we can avoid any more events like losing Jinnah Post and Chumak Glaciers.


----------



## SQ8

PakShaheen79 said:


> Sir Problem is they are doing it out of choice NOT OUT OF COMPULSION like us. An industry-level program is running for replacing them since 2010 and the process is underway.
> Next, comparing a strategic bomber with a tactical airlifter to prove a point is simply beyond me. Both have very different purposes and roles. Plus, unlike C-130 being our only tactical airlifter, USAF has a plethora of options other than B-52 to bomb anyone anywhere in the world. So this comparison is misplaced.
> Still, I am guilty as charged! No debate there. Now, agar Jaan ki Aman paon tau ....
> What I actually wanted to highlight and everyone ignored (I am positive no deliberately) ... have we ever analyze the modernization of IAF tactical and strategic lift capabilities. Plus, when I said, "still C-130s" .. it does not necessarily means I am asking for induction of new planes, but new platforms like helicopters capable to keep our troops supplied with food and ammo so that we can avoid any more events like losing Jinnah Post and Chumak Glaciers.


Now you are focusing on strawman tangents to try and defend what was fallacy in the first place.

“1963 - C-130s
2018 - Still C-130s

This explains everything went wrong with PAF's air lifting planning”

Your post seemed to imply something was wrong with both old designs and older airframes.. doesn’t matter if they are bombers or airliners.. 

Now you assert somehow that the US does it as an option?
Why would a $500 billion + Defense budget do anything as an option unless it was compelled to do so as well. They have a variety of replacement programs which have been delayed simply because of funds and also because the original airframe is still very good at the job.

The rest of your post is just pointless defensive tangents that have no relevance to C-130s, transport or otherwise.
Chumak post and helicopters have no relation to the PAF or C-130s and there is no need to offer them up as excuses. 
You made a false assertion which all of us are guilty of at times and were shown the fallacy in it, end of story.

Chumak, Jinnah or Cheecho ki Malian has nothing to do with it and does not require you to be on the defensive.

Plenty of threads exist for helicopters and we are seeing procurement there as well, but to say that they are related to C-130s is ridiculous,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pogical Thinking

It takes a C-130 to replace a C-130 that's how the saying goes in the USAF... Saw a couple of them and visited the cockpit on my visit to the USAF airbase in Qatar. Mighty fine planes they are.


----------



## Armchair-General

Which transport helis are used by the PAF?
And which one of these are the same as those used by the army (e.g. mi 17)


----------



## PakShaheen79

Oscar said:


> Now you are focusing on strawman tangents to try and defend what was fallacy in the first place.
> 
> “1963 - C-130s
> 2018 - Still C-130s
> 
> This explains everything went wrong with PAF's air lifting planning”
> 
> *Your post seemed to imply* something was wrong with both old designs and older airframes.. doesn’t matter if they are bombers or airliners..
> 
> Now you assert somehow that the US does it as an option?
> Why would a $500 billion + Defense budget do anything as an option unless it was compelled to do so as well. They have a variety of replacement programs which have been delayed simply because of funds and also because the original airframe is still very good at the job.
> 
> The rest of your post is just pointless defensive tangents that have no relevance to C-130s, transport or otherwise.
> Chumak post and helicopters have no relation to the PAF or C-130s and there is no need to offer them up as excuses.
> You made a false assertion which all of us are guilty of at times and were shown the fallacy in it, end of story.
> 
> *Chumak, Jinnah or Cheecho ki Malian has nothing to do with it and does not require you to be on the defensive.*
> 
> *Plenty of threads exist for helicopters and we are seeing procurement there as well, but to say that they are related to C-130s is ridiculous*,


Didn't I accept that I am guilty? .... 
Bold part explains everything went wrong with this discussion ... It reminds me lots of American foreign secretaries in recent times... "We have reasons to believe" similarly you implied what you wanted. And when I tried to explain it all ... you are still "your post seemed to imply". Jo chahy aap ka husan e kirshma saaz kare 

I was under the impression that we are discussing C-130s in the context of thread title "PAF Transportation" ... which compelled me to bring in the reasons why do we need this in the first place and losses we suffered due to logistical failures despite having C-130s in active areas. (2nd bold parts). After reading your post it seems actually this is a C-130 thread where PAF transportation came as a reference. And Please sir, I never said helicopters are related to C-130, again you are "implying" out of context. (3rd bold part). Helis are part of PAF Transportation, my reference to them came out of this fact.

Apologies if failed to put my case in the proper manner. Peace.


----------



## STRANGER BIRD

C130 Hercules, AW139 SAR and F16 Vipers at PAF Base Shabaz

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## syed zia Hassan

transport aircrafts in the Pakistan Air Force. How they can be improved, do we have enough aircraft? 

Sir PAF Made Jf-17 is a Fighter Jet , its very impressive made ... why Not PAF think about a Modern Transport Air Craft made at Home and better then C-130-J and C-17s, is it impossible for PAF tell me ..


----------



## GriffinsRule

Modern air transports are a necessity but they are not cheap and you have to look at what PAF requirements (guess work) are and then try to determine what aircraft might be best suited for its need and budget.

As far as C-17s go, there are none available as its no longer in production and too big and expensive for PAF's need anyways since its meant for strategic airlift. In Pakistan's case its size and range are overkill and will be underutilized.

Here are some of the options we have to look at. I will try to list them in the order of most likely and best suited in my opinion:
C-130E/H ... best bang for the buck are used C-130s. For example, we bought 5 ex-Australian C-130s from Lockheed for just $64 million, and they have been undergoing, along with all others in PAF, major avionics upgrade by Rockwell Collins for under $100M. So C-130J capability for the price of two new C-130s for 16 aircraft.

CN-235 ... still a requirement as PAF only bought 4 from IPTN in 2004, of the original requirement for over 20. PAF did end up buying some used C-130s after that but the requirement is still there I am sure. I think we paid only $10M each for the basic transport versions while the VIP version was $25M or so ... while no C-130s, the extended CN-295 can carry more troops then a base C-130. It falls short on carrying equipment like helicopters, trucks, APCs etc due to the width/height of the body, but should its a good tactical transport for moving men and pallets.

C-130J ... too expensive at around $70M. Better off buying older H models and upgrading them with newer e
engines and cockpits. But if we can get some used J models in the years to come, would be a good bet.

Il-76/78 ... quite a large transporter, even though a bit dated. I think we don't have a need for more than a couple more to add to our 4 in service already. Ours were bought from Ukraine but badly need an update similar to C-130s avionics wise and newer more fuel efficient engines. Used ones are around $50M or so.

Other newer options include:
Embraer's KC-390 ... still too new and untested, around $50M each.
Airbus's A400 ... twice as expensive as a new C-130J at $140M ... def not worth it
China's Y-20 ... another strategic airlifter that is brand new and untested. Is probably over a $100M each and has weak engines. Smaller then C-17 but larger then Il-76.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bossman

GriffinsRule said:


> Modern air transports are a necessity but they are not cheap and you have to look at what PAF requirements (guess work) are and then try to determine what aircraft might be best suited for its need and budget.
> 
> As far as C-17s go, there are none available as its no longer in production and too big and expensive for PAF's need anyways since its meant for strategic airlift. In Pakistan's case its size and range are overkill and will be underutilized.
> 
> Here are some of the options we have to look at. I will try to list them in the order of most likely and best suited in my opinion:
> C-130E/H ... best bang for the buck are used C-130s. For example, we bought 5 ex-Australian C-130s from Lockheed for just $64 million, and they have been undergoing, along with all others in PAF, major avionics upgrade by Rockwell Collins for under $100M. So C-130J capability for the price of two new C-130s for 16 aircraft.
> CN-235/CN295 ... still a requirement as PAF only bought 4 of the original 20 some it wanted to buy. Ended up buying some C-130s after that but the requirement is still there for a country our size.
> 
> CN-235 ... still a requirement as PAF only bought 4 from IPTN in 2004, of the original requirement for over 12. PAF did end up buying some used C-130s after that but the requirement is still there I am sure. I think we paid only $10M each for the basic transport versions while the VIP version was $25M or so ... while no C-130s, the extended CN-295 can carry more troops then a base C-130. It falls short on carrying equipment like helicopters, trucks, APCs etc due to the width/height of the body, but should its a good tactical transport for moving men and pallets.
> 
> C-130J ... too expensive at around $70M. Better off buying older H models and upgrading them with newer e
> engines and cockpits. But if we can get some used J models in the years to come, would be a good bet.
> 
> Il-76/78 ... quite a large transporter, even though a bit dated. I think we don't have a need for more than a couple more to add to our 4 in service already. Ours were bought from Ukraine but badly need an update similar to C-130s avionics wise and newer more fuel efficient engines. Used ones are around $50M or so.
> 
> Other newer options include:
> Embraer's KC-390 ... still too new and untested, around $50M each.
> Airbus's A400 ... twice as expensive as a new C-130J at $140M ... def not worth it
> China's Y-20 ... another strategic airlifter that is brand new and untested. Is probably over a $100M each and has weak engines. Smaller then C-17 but larger then Il-76.


A sensible and well thought post unlike most other on this forum.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Readerdefence

GriffinsRule said:


> Modern air transports are a necessity but they are not cheap and you have to look at what PAF requirements (guess work) are and then try to determine what aircraft might be best suited for its need and budget.
> 
> As far as C-17s go, there are none available as its no longer in production and too big and expensive for PAF's need anyways since its meant for strategic airlift. In Pakistan's case its size and range are overkill and will be underutilized.
> 
> Here are some of the options we have to look at. I will try to list them in the order of most likely and best suited in my opinion:
> C-130E/H ... best bang for the buck are used C-130s. For example, we bought 5 ex-Australian C-130s from Lockheed for just $64 million, and they have been undergoing, along with all others in PAF, major avionics upgrade by Rockwell Collins for under $100M. So C-130J capability for the price of two new C-130s for 16 aircraft.
> 
> CN-235 ... still a requirement as PAF only bought 4 from IPTN in 2004, of the original requirement for over 20. PAF did end up buying some used C-130s after that but the requirement is still there I am sure. I think we paid only $10M each for the basic transport versions while the VIP version was $25M or so ... while no C-130s, the extended CN-295 can carry more troops then a base C-130. It falls short on carrying equipment like helicopters, trucks, APCs etc due to the width/height of the body, but should its a good tactical transport for moving men and pallets.
> 
> C-130J ... too expensive at around $70M. Better off buying older H models and upgrading them with newer e
> engines and cockpits. But if we can get some used J models in the years to come, would be a good bet.
> 
> Il-76/78 ... quite a large transporter, even though a bit dated. I think we don't have a need for more than a couple more to add to our 4 in service already. Ours were bought from Ukraine but badly need an update similar to C-130s avionics wise and newer more fuel efficient engines. Used ones are around $50M or so.
> 
> Other newer options include:
> Embraer's KC-390 ... still too new and untested, around $50M each.
> Airbus's A400 ... twice as expensive as a new C-130J at $140M ... def not worth it
> China's Y-20 ... another strategic airlifter that is brand new and untested. Is probably over a $100M each and has weak engines. Smaller then C-17 but larger then Il-76.


Hi when you say weak engine and larger the IL-76 what’s the point of making it larger then 
IL76 if the engine is week any more update is appreciated 
Thank you


----------



## Captain77W

Readerdefence said:


> Hi when you say weak engine and larger the IL-76 what’s the point of making it larger then
> IL76 if the engine is week any more update is appreciated
> Thank you


The Chinese are still in the prototype phase with the Y20 and their engine technology is yet to mature, though do expect a reversed engineered CFM Leap 1C soon, The current engines being used by the Y-20 are based on reversed engineered CFM56 engines

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

Whats the point for the Chinese to make it the Y-20? They will make them for their strategic needs regardless of whether the engines are not in the same class as RR, GE or P&W etc. Jet engines are their achilles heel, so to speak.

The engines it uses are the Russian D-30s, similar to ones used on our Il-78s with about 23-24,000 lbs of thrust. Compared to C-17 which uses P&W F117-PW-100s with over 40,000 lbs of thrust. Hence I mentioned the under-powered part for a similarly sized aircraft.


----------



## MastanKhan

Hi,

Have you people ever thought of it like this---

Are the american engines OVER POWERED---. If you looked at older american cars---the enginbe size on the cars was monsterous---.


----------



## GriffinsRule

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have you people ever thought of it like this---
> 
> Are the american engines OVER POWERED---. If you looked at older american cars---the enginbe size on the cars was monsterous---.



No ...


----------



## clarkgap

China, Chengdu?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Armchair-General

clarkgap said:


> China, Chengdu?
> 
> View attachment 459762
> View attachment 459763
> View attachment 459764


In second picture I think that's Chinese written on the sign board.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Captain77W

Maybe the PAF should buy or charter 1 or 2 747 Freighters for Flying their JF-17 parts from China and Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## monitor

The PAF transporter parked at the ramp backed up by the beautiful mountainous backdrop of the Skardu valley.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mingle

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have you people ever thought of it like this---
> 
> Are the american engines OVER POWERED---. If you looked at older american cars---the enginbe size on the cars was monsterous---.


Khan sb gas was cheap on those days

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MastanKhan

mingle said:


> Khan sb gas was cheap on those days




Hi,

Gas is still cheap here and the engine sizes have grown with monstrous horse power and torque---.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> *Gas is still cheap here* and the engine sizes have grown with monstrous horse power and torque---.


Make that statement in San Francisco.


----------



## ali_raza

Oscar said:


> Make that statement in San Francisco.


here is a small tip if u r in san francisco 
go fil up ur tank in elsobrante u will save 35%

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MastanKhan

Oscar said:


> Make that statement in San Francisco.




Hi,

It is cheap---here is the pricing on gas buddy

https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPrices/California/San Francisco

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ali_raza

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is cheap---here is the pricing on gas buddy
> 
> https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPrices/California/San Francisco


when i was there i use to fil up from richmond and come back to sfo

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

World's largest plane, Antonov An-225 Mriya, lands in Karachi


----------



## fatman17

Worlds biggest aircraft has visited #Karachi after 10 years, Antonov AN225 Mriya, has come to Karachi today on a refueling visit from Hambantota (HRI), Sri Lanka on its way to Dammam, Saudi Arabia.

Operator: Antonov/ADB
Aircraft: Antonov AN225 Mriya/AN225
Registration: UR-82060 https://t.co/OCCCH2iCyp


----------



## hassan1

PAF KING AIR 200

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

fatman17 said:


> Worlds biggest aircraft has visited #Karachi after 10 years, Antonov AN225 Mriya, has come to Karachi today on a refueling visit from Hambantota (HRI), Sri Lanka on its way to Dammam, Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Operator: Antonov/ADB
> Aircraft: Antonov AN225 Mriya/AN225
> Registration: UR-82060 https://t.co/OCCCH2iCyp
> View attachment 468117



I have met the Pilots of this aircraft, they showed me pictures from their visit in Karachi. I asked them about military equipment transport to Pakistan this year, he said nothing in order for Pakistan till now.


----------



## fatman17

Ulla said:


> I have met the Pilots of this aircraft, they showed me pictures from their visit in Karachi. I asked them about military equipment transport to Pakistan this year, he said nothing in order for Pakistan till now.


They will never disclose such information


----------



## Ultima Thule

mil-avia said:


> Global Aircraft -- Top 50 Largest Aircraft


@waz @The Eagle please delete the post form @mil-avia its a discussion of PAF transport fleet its thanks


----------



## fatman17

Special colors on this Pakistan Air Force C-130 to mark RIAT 2018 and 100 years of the RAF. Photo by Gary Claridge-king https://t.co/SUSOLAdI23

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Talon

fatman17 said:


> Special colors on this Pakistan Air Force C-130 to mark RIAT 2018 and 100 years of the RAF. Photo by Gary Claridge-king https://t.co/SUSOLAdI23
> View attachment 485672


only if the nose was simple...!


----------



## ghazi52

*AhmAd IbrAhim*‏ @AhmAdTipu7
Anotther snap: Pakistan Air force C130 Hercules Paint job for International Air Tattoo Competition in United Kingdom. #RIAT 2018








Pakistan Air Force beautiful C-130 Hercules. #RIAT 2018

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Nice


----------



## fatman17

More nice

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

* Indonesia Develops Gunship Variant of CN-235 Aircraft *

30 Agustus 2018





GooD for also paf if they consider

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khail007

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 507489



This is the same bird originally bought by PIA?


----------



## Gryphon

http://www.adj.com.my/viewer/?b=adj&i=AB339572-22EA-E091-387E-7D561DF8BC44&a#p=1

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Trailer23

Our good friends (*Royal Jordanian Air Force*) have put up a Tender/Announcement for the sale of their *CASA-235*.
Now, for some reason I can't access their page properly...

https://www.rjaf.mil.jo/index.php/en/organization/royal-jordanian-air-force.html

https://www.rjaf.mil.jo/index.php/en/organization/showannouncement-31.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

Now since their (official) site has always had issues and can't be accessed properly - i'm not sure how many of them are up for Sale.

They have 02 (in Service) and are modified for the Gunship role as you can see in the above image.

Would the PAF consider adding more to our current inventory of 04 CASA-235...?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

http://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130-Hercules/1636


----------



## AKINCI

An IL-72M came to Istanbul and it is returning now.

https://www.flightradar24.com/1fa1ab2f


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Came to pick up Target pods maybe???


AKINCI said:


> An IL-72M came to Istanbul and it is returning now.
> 
> https://www.flightradar24.com/1fa1ab2f

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130-Hercules/1802

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## airomerix

Il-76 is a huge aircraft. Uses up 90% of the Chaklala runway for take off!

Last year they had to abort couple of take off runs due to high temperature and very less dense air on the runway during june/july.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## airomerix

Gentlemen.

The word is that currently one of our C-130's from 6 ATS sqn is being repainted for its participation in RIAT 2019.

Lets stay tuned for pictures.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

Any option is good - as long as its not an *An-32*  .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

*Aircraft type*

2x Casa 295

2x Casa 235

1x C130-B

i think CASA 295 & 235 are better for our transport fleet
Both aircrafts are also gunship variants
good for counter terrorism operations

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aziqbal

Y-9 has matured into a very nice cargo aircraft 

Pakistan should take a serious look at this unit 

the Y-8 Category III Platform on the ZDK-03 also has showed to be a good platform

the airforce already knows and has experience on this unit 

a fleet of 12 x Y-9 would not be a bad addition to our cargo fleet

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Army research

aziqbal said:


> Y-9 has matured into a very nice cargo aircraft
> 
> Pakistan should take a serious look at this unit
> 
> the Y-8 Category III Platform on the ZDK-03 also has showed to be a good platform
> 
> the airforce already knows and has experience on this unit
> 
> a fleet of 12 x Y-9 would not be a bad addition to our cargo fleet


I'd say go for the Y8 first because logistics is already present , then maybe when the economy improves and we have to replace C130 then get Y9


----------



## fatman17

6 C130s are being upgraded in Malaysia. from my information 3 have received the upgrade.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Rockwell Collins awarded a $30M upgrade kits contract for Pakistani C-130s

January 19, 2016 (by Asif Shamim) - Rockwell Collins has been awarded a $30,727,886 contract for work on the Pakistani Air Force fleet of C-130 aircraft.

Pakistan Air Force L-382B Hercules #4144 from 6 Sqn seen at RIAT on 15 July 2006 sporting a special paint and wrap scheme for the Earthquake relief carried out in 2005. [Photo by Asif Shamim]


The contract will cover the design, manufacture, and technical support during installation and delivery of 11 C-130E model kits and five C-130B integrated avionics suites and kits. 

Additionally, Rockwell Collins shall develop, validate, and deliver consolidated B/E flight manual and associated checklists, and maintenance supplements required to operate, maintain, and sustain the PAF C-130 fleet. 

This contract comes through a foreign military sale to Pakistan approved by the U.S. Department of Defense, with the work to be carried out at Nur Khan Air Base, Islamabad and is expected to be complete by December 31, 2020.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17

fatman17 said:


> 6 C130s are being upgraded in Malaysia. from my information 3 have received the upgrade.


My bad. at Nur Khan Base

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

KC390??
AN-70???
AN-178??


aziqbal said:


> Y-9 has matured into a very nice cargo aircraft
> 
> Pakistan should take a serious look at this unit
> 
> the Y-8 Category III Platform on the ZDK-03 also has showed to be a good platform
> 
> the airforce already knows and has experience on this unit
> 
> a fleet of 12 x Y-9 would not be a bad addition to our cargo fleet





Army research said:


> I'd say go for the Y8 first because logistics is already present , then maybe when the economy improves and we have to replace C130 then get Y9


----------



## Army research

Ahmet Pasha said:


> KC390??
> AN-70???
> AN-178??


Y series are cheaper , and more of them are in service so more economy of scale this cheaper spare parts too , besides the fact we already have logistics due to the zdk awac


----------



## fatman17

LM offering C130 ASW options to existing fleets

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Ahmet Pasha said:


> KC390??
> AN-70???
> AN-178??


PAF will never spend money on new transports


----------



## Yasser76

fatman17 said:


> PAF will never spend money on new transports



True to an extent, but we did buy CN-235s to free up the C-130s from light duties and the IL-76 Tankers also perform heavy lift. 

PAF love C-130 due to it's versiitlity and thats why they modernised them. 16 are more then enough for Pakistan's needs and in fact we have stored some air frames for parts/attrition reserve in order to keep fleet at 16. 

Remember Pakistan is quite a narrow country and now we are blessed with great North/South road and rail links. Movement of troops and armour very easy compared to India. Also we do not have bases abroad. 

As a result no real heavy lift requirement for Pakistan. CN-235 has taken over air base support and we have Phenom for internal VIP transport. C-130 will always be important but mainly to support army, disaster relief or when PAF deploys abroad for exercises.


----------



## nomi007

it is better to buy RJAF ex CN-235/295 for expand current fleet size

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Yeah that is true they will not. Until paani sar se guzarey ga. Then they will go around begging the world for even 2 or 3 airframes. We've seen this trend with AirForce


fatman17 said:


> PAF will never spend money on new transports


----------



## niaz

Those who are suggesting CASA CN-235/CN-295; these are performance figures for the key items

Capacity:

C-130 E/H: 92 passengers or 64 airborne troops. Total payload 33,000 Kg.

CN-235: 51 passengers or 35 paratroopers. CN-295 is the stretched version with 71 passenger carrying capacity. Total payload 6000 Kg

Speed:

C-130: cruising speed -541 Km/hr, top speed 593 Km/hr.

Cn-235: Cruising speed 450 Km /hr at 15,000 ft. CN-295 speed is 571 Km/hr

Range:

C-130: 3,797 Km, for CN-235 the range is 4,335 Km

T/O distance for C-10 can as little as 427meters for Cn-235 is 725 meters.

There are about 230 CN-235 in service worldwide. Whereas to date USAF alone has 145 C-130 in active service, 181 in the National Guard & 102 in the reserve. Total production of all models exceeds 2,500.

You can see that the reason why so many airforces including PAF and even IAF now loves the C-130 is that it can carry a larger load at higher speeds than any other transport plane in its class.

I can’t see the reason for any criticism here. C-130 is undoubtedly one of the best medium transport planes ever built. Only other military plane that can compare with it in the longevity of service & multipurpose use was C-47/Dakota. As of 2012, a few Dakota were still in service in South Africa; 75 years after it was first flown.

Besides, Pakistan has had very long experience in flying & maintain it also because there are a huge number of used C-130's available, availability of the spares in the black market; in case of sanction, should not much of a problem. Why do we want to replace it? Don’t you think that the scarce funds necessary to replace the aging C-130 plane could be better used elsewhere?

Please remember that every thing that is old is not necessarily bad or out of date and the replacement should only be done if absolutely necessary, not for the change alone or because we don’t like Donald Trump and /or America.

This is what the aviation industry thinks of C-130.

https://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/50-years-of-hercules-5504946/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Yasser76 said:


> True to an extent, but we did buy CN-235s to free up the C-130s from light duties and the IL-76 Tankers also perform heavy lift.
> 
> PAF love C-130 due to it's versiitlity and thats why they modernised them. 16 are more then enough for Pakistan's needs and in fact we have stored some air frames for parts/attrition reserve in order to keep fleet at 16.
> 
> Remember Pakistan is quite a narrow country and now we are blessed with great North/South road and rail links. Movement of troops and armour very easy compared to India. Also we do not have bases abroad.
> 
> As a result no real heavy lift requirement for Pakistan. CN-235 has taken over air base support and we have Phenom for internal VIP transport. C-130 will always be important but mainly to support army, disaster relief or when PAF deploys abroad for exercises.


The IL78 were used and upgraded. CN235 was a inexpensive purchase from Indonesia.


----------



## fatman17

niaz said:


> Those who are suggesting CASA CN-235/CN-295; these are performance figures for the key items
> 
> Capacity:
> 
> C-130 E/H: 92 passengers or 64 airborne troops. Total payload 33,000 Kg.
> 
> CN-235: 51 passengers or 35 paratroopers. CN-295 is the stretched version with 71 passenger carrying capacity. Total payload 6000 Kg
> 
> Speed:
> 
> C-130: cruising speed -541 Km/hr, top speed 593 Km/hr.
> 
> Cn-235: Cruising speed 450 Km /hr at 15,000 ft. CN-295 speed is 571 Km/hr
> 
> Range:
> 
> C-130: 3,797 Km, for CN-235 the range is 4,335 Km
> 
> T/O distance for C-10 can as little as 427meters for Cn-235 is 725 meters.
> 
> There are about 230 CN-235 in service worldwide. Whereas to date USAF alone has 145 C-130 in active service, 181 in the National Guard & 102 in the reserve. Total production of all models exceeds 2,500.
> 
> You can see that the reason why so many airforces including PAF and even IAF now loves the C-130 is that it can carry a larger load at higher speeds than any other transport plane in its class.
> 
> I can’t see the reason for any criticism here. C-130 is undoubtedly one of the best medium transport planes ever built. Only other military plane that can compare with it in the longevity of service & multipurpose use was C-47/Dakota. As of 2012, a few Dakota were still in service in South Africa; 75 years after it was first flown.
> 
> Besides, Pakistan has had very long experience in flying & maintain it also because there are a huge number of used C-130's available, availability of the spares in the black market; in case of sanction, should not much of a problem. Why do we want to replace it? Don’t you think that the scarce funds necessary to replace the aging C-130 plane could be better used elsewhere?
> 
> Please remember that every thing that is old is not necessarily bad or out of date and the replacement should only be done if absolutely necessary, not for the change alone or because we don’t like Donald Trump and /or America.
> 
> This is what the aviation industry thinks of C-130.
> 
> https://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/50-years-of-hercules-5504946/


Further PAF Herks are getting life extension upgrades.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khanasifm

http://warnesysworld.com/belgium-begins-c-130h-fleet-disposal-process/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/new-zealand-military-transport/

NZ as well, though no idea of how much life is left in their airframes


----------



## fatman17

PAF not in the market for any new or used transport aircraft. 
16 C130 B, C, E 
3 or 4 CN235 
3 or 4 IL78MRTT 
are meeting the current lift requirements. 
Boeing 707-320s in storage can be used in emergencies.


----------



## fatman17

fatman17 said:


> PAF not in the market for any new or used transport aircraft.
> 16 C130 B, C, E
> 3 or 4 CN235
> 3 or 4 IL78MRTT
> are meeting the current lift requirements.
> Boeing 707-320s in storage can be used in emergencies.


There are a couple of L100s in the C130 inventory


----------



## air marshal

http://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130-Hercules/1920

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm




----------



## khanasifm



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tamiyah

Guys I just wanted to ask do anyone have the pictures of the "storaged" 707 of PAF?


----------



## fatman17

Tamiyah said:


> Guys I just wanted to ask do anyone have the pictures of the "storaged" 707 of PAF?


Go to history of pia website for excellent collection of pictures of civil and military aircraft

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

fatman17 said:


> Go to history of pia website for excellent collection of pictures of civil and military aircraft


Mostly Abbas Ali collection but very Facinating indeed nostalgic too

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

mingle said:


> Mostly Abbas Ali collection but very Facinating indeed nostalgic too


They're many other uploaders too

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tamiyah

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 568725
> 
> 
> View attachment 568726
> 
> 
> View attachment 568727
> View attachment 568728
> View attachment 568729
> View attachment 568730
> View attachment 568731
> View attachment 568732
> View attachment 568733
> View attachment 568734
> View attachment 568735
> View attachment 568736
> View attachment 568737


Are these still capable of flying?


----------



## fatman17

Tamiyah said:


> Are these still capable of flying?


Yes

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ACE OF THE AIR

fatman17 said:


> Yes


Are you sure. because one B707 is attached to the building of Nur Khan airbase. Infact that aircraft is 706 th B707 produced. It was also reported that Boing wanted to purchase this aircraft as the 707th B707 crashed.


----------



## AMG_12

Non of the 707s are flying.


----------



## Tamiyah

But they are 


Game.Invade said:


> Non of the 707s are flying.


stored.


----------



## ACE OF THE AIR

Tamiyah said:


> stored.








If this is how you consider the term stored then it is stored.

http://www.historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17951

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khail007

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 572785



Seems to be C-130?


----------



## airomerix

fatman17 said:


> PAF not in the market for any new or used transport aircraft.
> 16 C130 B, C, E
> 3 or 4 CN235
> 3 or 4 IL78MRTT
> *are meeting the current lift requirements*.
> Boeing 707-320s in storage can be used in emergencies.



Who told you that? We require 8-10 additional C-130 class airlifters to free up at least 2 aircraft without disrupting flight schedules. Ask the guys at 6 and 21 how are they coping with this shortage. they'll tell you their stories.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

airomerix said:


> Who told you that? We require 8-10 additional C-130 class airlifters to free up at least 2 aircraft without disrupting flight schedules. Ask the guys at 6 and 21 how are they coping with this shortage. they'll tell you their stories.


I wonder if the PAF would consider the LM-100J. It's basically a stripped-down C-130J hovering in the $60-70 m per unit (all-in) range. Though designed for civilian/commercial usage, LM said it'll position the aircraft for government and military usage.


----------



## GriffinsRule

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I wonder if the PAF would consider the LM-100J. It's basically a stripped-down C-130J hovering in the $60-70 m per unit (all-in) range. Though designed for civilian/commercial usage, LM said it'll position the aircraft for government and military usage.



My question is, why did the PAF not move fast enough, or even at all, in order to buy some of the RAF C-130Js that were on sale for a while?


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

GriffinsRule said:


> My question is, why did the PAF not move fast enough, or even at all, in order to buy some of the RAF C-130Js that were on sale for a while?


I'm guessing ... too few aircraft available right now to justify setting-up a new logistics line for the engine. But to be fair to the PAF, Pakistan has had trouble getting used military equipment from the UK and Western Europe. They had tried (and failed at) getting the Type 23s frigates or Kortenaer-class frigates. So, something might be up on that road, and the PAF opted to just take a detour.


----------



## MastanKhan

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I'm guessing ... too few aircraft available right now to justify setting-up a new logistics line for the engine. But to be fair to the PAF, Pakistan has had trouble getting used military equipment from the UK and Western Europe. They had tried (and failed at) getting the Type 23s frigates or Kortenaer-class frigates. So, something might be up on that road, and the PAF opted to just take a detour.



Hi,

If that is the Frigate the a south american country bought---then the blame is not on UK---.

Pak navy fckd up bad on it---. They tried to play cool---gave low ball offer I believe---thought no one else was interested in them---.

So---if that was the Frigate---then indeed the screw up was of pak navy---.


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> If that is the Frigate the a south american country bought---then the blame is not on UK---.
> 
> Pak navy fckd up bad on it---. They tried to play cool---gave low ball offer I believe---thought no one else was interested in them---.
> 
> So---if that was the Frigate---then indeed the screw up was of pak navy---.


Not sure about low-ball offers. 

It's ironic, but there's about as much political interest in selling new equipment as there is in blocking it. New ships, vehicles, planes, etc create jobs, and used ones don't (or not as many). 

If the @Khafee leaks re: F-16 Block-72s & TPS-77 MRRs are accurate, then by now, the governing bodies of the UK, Netherlands, France, etc, are aware of the PAF having more means than what it appears. Sure, it ain't great, but it wouldn't be above the UK to 'suggest' the PAF buy Grifo-Es first (i.e., send some jobs the UK's way) for the JF-17 Block-3 before getting its hands on surplus C-130Js.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## airomerix

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I wonder if the PAF would consider the LM-100J. It's basically a stripped-down C-130J hovering in the $60-70 m per unit (all-in) range. Though designed for civilian/commercial usage, LM said it'll position the aircraft for government and military usage.



It is still too expensive. We can get 2 good condition C-130H's in this price. And that is what PAF is looking for. 



GriffinsRule said:


> My question is, why did the PAF not move fast enough, or even at all, in order to buy some of the RAF C-130Js that were on sale for a while?



We did. Believe me. 

We were THIS close in getting Ex Belgian C-130H's couple of months back. The deal isn't getting through due to congress. 

http://alert5.com/2019/05/31/belgium-offering-nine-c-130s-up-for-sale/

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## fatman17

airomerix said:


> Who told you that? We require 8-10 additional C-130 class airlifters to free up at least 2 aircraft without disrupting flight schedules. Ask the guys at 6 and 21 how are they coping with this shortage. they'll tell you their stories.


I guess you have all the answers. Case closed.


----------



## khail007

airomerix said:


> It is still too expensive. We can get 2 good condition C-130H's in this price. And that is what PAF is looking for.
> 
> 
> 
> We did. Believe me.
> 
> We were THIS close in getting Ex Belgian C-130H's couple of months back. The deal isn't getting through due to congress.
> 
> http://alert5.com/2019/05/31/belgium-offering-nine-c-130s-up-for-sale/


If C-130 were not approved by congress then how come F-16s and AH-1Z are going to be released?


----------



## airomerix

khail007 said:


> If C-130 were not approved by congress then how come F-16s and AH-1Z are going to be released?



This was the case couple of months ago. 

There has been some development during IK's visit to US. Lets see what becomes of it. 

Point being. We definitely need another squadron of C-130's at the center. No. 21 at the south and no.6 in north certainly don't cut it well.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

airomerix said:


> This was the case couple of months ago.
> 
> There has been some development during IK's visit to US. Lets see what becomes of it.
> 
> Point being. We definitely need another squadron of C-130's at the center. No. 21 at the south and no.6 in north certainly don't cut it well.


Any idea if they'll try reviving efforts for a MRTT capable of both boom and hose-and-drogue refueling? There are basically only 2 options available on the market for this: the Boeing KC-46 and A330 MRTT.


----------



## airomerix

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Any idea if they'll try reviving efforts for a MRTT capable of both boom and hose-and-drogue refueling? There are basically only 2 options available on the market for this: the Boeing KC-46 and A330 MRTT.



Too expensive and not worth it. We have many other things to spend money on than to acquire tankers. 

Il-78s are usually used to supplement heavy lift ops. Eg. bringing mulitple JF-17 front fuselage from China etc

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## air marshal

http://falcons.pk/photo/CASA-CN-235/2027

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## air marshal

http://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130B-Hercules/2126

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sine Nomine

airomerix said:


> Who told you that? We require 8-10 additional C-130 class airlifters to free up at least 2 aircraft without disrupting flight schedules. Ask the guys at 6 and 21 how are they coping with this shortage. they'll tell you their stories.


Why not AN-178 or AN-70,since down the road C-130 life cycle would end,we would be in need of new lifters.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Why not AN-178 or AN-70,since down the road C-130 life cycle would end,we would be in need of new lifters.


they are looking at china sir .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khail007

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Why not AN-178 or AN-70,since down the road C-130 life cycle would end,we would be in need of new lifters.


Sir G, is not it better to retain same platform, PAF have almost six decades (more than half a century) of wealth of experience under her belt?
PAF knows C130 inside out.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sine Nomine

khail007 said:


> Sir G, is not it better to retain same platform, PAF have almost six decades (more than half a century) of wealth of experience under her belt?
> PAF knows C130 inside out.


I am not Sir.
Now coming to topic,Our fleet is ageing,we have to replace them down the road with same type or with system of same category.
We can either buy new C-130's or we can go for used C-130's from around the Globe.
I am pointing at going for new platform which can serve us in many roles for next 5 decades.


----------



## khanasifm

From single Harvey transport /c-130 to 3 heavy transport sqns now 6,21 and 10 mrtt , lift capability improved 

All ac now with digital cockpit and sat navigational, most of the ac got additional life due to wing box and outer /inner wing replacement and in country depot level maintenance 

Only thing perhaps is k-3 awacs based on y-9 platform. If depot level maintenance is developed in country than adding few for transport may make sense as cost of ops and maintenance would be justified along with pilot training hours

So one sqn of y-9 ?? Possibility 


The Y-9 is considered China's effort to build a C-130J class transport aircraft.

https://sinodefence.com/shaanxi-y-9/

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fatman17

All PAF transport is of the medium lift category.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Imran Khan

fatman17 said:


> All PAF transport is of the medium lift category.


Even il78 sir?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ACE OF THE AIR

Imran Khan said:


> Even il78 sir?


IL78's are not transport...they are Refuellers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

ACE OF THE AIR said:


> IL78's are not transport...they are Refuellers.


they are MRTT sir multi role tanker transporter planes . in fact most of the time we seen them active as transporters rather then tankers .

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## airomerix

News:

PAF's No.6 will be participating in Air Mobility Rodeo Exercise at Joint Base Lewis-McChord (JBLM) in Washington later this year.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mingle

airomerix said:


> News:
> 
> PAF's No.6 will be participating in Air Mobility Rodeo Exercise at Joint Base Lewis-McChord (JBLM) in Washington later this year.


Any news about new procurements of transport and fighter jetts

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

mingle said:


> Any news about new procurements of transport and fighter jetts



Some Belgian C-130's are up for sale. We have been trying to get them but everything requires congressional approval.And we dont have the odds yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cloud4000

airomerix said:


> Some Belgian C-130's are up for sale. We have been trying to get them but everything requires congressional approval.And we dont have the odds yet.



Pakistan is still MNNA and should have no problem acquiring C-130s. Won’t change the balance of power with India.


----------



## GriffinsRule

I agree, there should be no issues getting approvals for acquiring transport aircraft

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

cloud4000 said:


> Pakistan is still MNNA and should have no problem acquiring C-130s. Won’t change the balance of power with India.





GriffinsRule said:


> I agree, there should be no issues getting approvals for acquiring transport aircraft



I'm afraid this is not how it works. Every US made asset transfer requires congressional approval. It was required for ex NSAWC F-16s, P-3s, RJAF F-16s, Oliver Perry Class frigates and what so on.

Getting C-130's has been harder for us as compared to getting F-16s. There were two reasons. 

1) C-130 is an asset no Air Force wants to get rid of. It has too much utility and Air Forces prefer to keep it in their storage areas rather than selling it off. This is one of the reasons why we seldom see used C-130's in the market. 
2) US hated the idea of Pakistan using C-130's for bombing missions back in 1965 and 1971. Pakistan has used C-130's to its maximum potential and has been doing a variety of experiments with it which has also been objectionable to the US. In 2005, Pakistan approached US to transfer two C-130H's with Spectre gunship configuration to fight the militants. The idea was gunned down by the pentagon before it even made it to the congress. 

We desperately need to raise the third C-130 squadron in Multan. The pressure on 6 squadron is way too much. 16 C-130's dont just cut it. 

1) Transport conversion school has its own requirements of atleast 'X' number of airframes (sorry can't disclose the number) 

2) PAC Kamra needs it for a variety of needs which includes but not limited to JF-17, F-16 parts from China, Turkey and US. 

3) Tactical deployment of squadrons in war and peacetime presents the biggest demand. Since Feb'19. Our C-130's have been flying with AMRAAM's, sidewinders, SD-10s, PL-5s to forward bases along with the crew. 

4) Round the clock ISR missions with our 'X' number of specially modified C-130's along the eastern and western borders. 

5) Troop/crew/assets movement of the Army, Air Force and Navy. 

6) Natural disasters - Self-explanatory. 

7) Special flights for government

8) Standby C-130's at all times. 


Now ask yourselves. Do 16 C-130's can do the job? If not then why PAF has not been able to get more than 16 in the last 50 years. There is a reason why its called HVA asset.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## GriffinsRule

airomerix said:


> I'm afraid this is not how it works. Every US made asset transfer requires congressional approval. It was required for ex NSAWC F-16s, P-3s, RJAF F-16s, Oliver Perry Class frigates and what so on.
> 
> Getting C-130's has been harder for us as compared to getting F-16s. There were two reasons.
> 
> 1) C-130 is an asset no Air Force wants to get rid of. It has too much utility and Air Forces prefer to keep it in their storage areas rather than selling it off. This is one of the reasons why we seldom see used C-130's in the market.
> 2) US hated the idea of Pakistan using C-130's for bombing missions back in 1965 and 1971. Pakistan has used C-130's to its maximum potential and has been doing a variety of experiments with it which has also been objectionable to the US. In 2005, Pakistan approached US to transfer two C-130H's with Spectre gunship configuration to fight the militants. The idea was gunned down by the pentagon before it even made it to the congress.
> 
> We desperately need to raise the third C-130 squadron in Multan. The pressure on 6 squadron is way too much. 16 C-130's dont just cut it.
> 
> 1) Transport conversion school has its own requirements of atleast 'X' number of airframes (sorry can't disclose the number)
> 
> 2) PAC Kamra needs it for a variety of needs which includes but not limited to JF-17, F-16 parts from China, Turkey and US.
> 
> 3) Tactical deployment of squadrons in war and peacetime presents the biggest demand. Since Feb'19. Our C-130's have been flying with AMRAAM's, sidewinders, SD-10s, PL-5s to forward bases along with the crew.
> 
> 4) Round the clock ISR missions with our 'X' number of specially modified C-130's along the eastern and western borders.
> 
> 5) Troop/crew/assets movement of the Army, Air Force and Navy.
> 
> 6) Natural disasters - Self-explanatory.
> 
> 7) Special flights for government
> 
> 8) Standby C-130's at all times.
> 
> 
> Now ask yourselves. Do 16 C-130's can do the job? If not then why PAF has not been able to get more than 16 in the last 50 years. There is a reason why its called HVA asset.



Very informative post but again, aside from the armed version of C-130, I dont see any reason for congress to deny Pakistans request to get used one available for sale by any operators. If they are up for sale, as was the case with C-130Js that Bangladesh bought from the UK, it means they are available to anyone. I am sure there are other countries waiting to buy used transports too, and that is a separate issue, but you did not address any real reason for Congress to deny PAF's request for plain vanilla versions. I dont think what happened in 1965 has any bearing on this. What you did highlight is Pakistan's dire shortage of tactical lift, and from the way it seems to be going, PAF has shown little interest in even expanding its CN-235/295 fleet (if they were finding it that hard to buy C-130s). Seems like they are okay with making do with what they have.

In this past decade, RAAF gifted four and later sold 5 more C-130Hs to Indonesia in 2011-2012. Norway has had 5 C-130Hs up for sale with 50% of their life remaining for a few years. Turkey bought 5 used Saudi C-130Es in 2011. We all know Bangladesh bought 5 C-130Js from RAF just last year. Even Bahrain bought 2 C-130Js from RAF. Philippines just bought a couple used ones from US. I am sure there are others as well but I cant research them all. The point is, either PAF has sat on its requirement and missed opportunities to acquire used C-130s or they havent felt the need for them, operationally. Else they could have acquired other aircraft to supplement the fleet, such as CN-295s etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

GriffinsRule said:


> Very informative post but again, aside from the armed version of C-130, I dont see any reason for congress to deny Pakistans request to get used one available for sale by any operators. If they are up for sale, as was the case with C-130Js that Bangladesh bought from the UK, it means they are available to anyone. I am sure there are other countries waiting to buy used transports too, and that is a separate issue, but you did not address any real reason for Congress to deny PAF's request for plain vanilla versions. I dont think what happened in 1965 has any bearing on this. What you did highlight is Pakistan's dire shortage of tactical lift, and from the way it seems to be going, PAF has shown little interest in even expanding its CN-235/295 fleet (if they were finding it that hard to buy C-130s). Seems like they are okay with making do with what they have.
> 
> In this past decade, RAAF gifted four and later sold 5 more C-130Hs to Indonesia in 2011-2012. Norway has had 5 C-130Hs up for sale with 50% of their life remaining for a few years. Turkey bought 5 used Saudi C-130Es in 2011. We all know Bangladesh bought 5 C-130Js from RAF just last year. Even Bahrain bought 2 C-130Js from RAF. Philippines just bought a couple used ones from US. I am sure there are others as well but I cant research them all. The point is, either PAF has sat on its requirement and missed opportunities to acquire used C-130s or they havent felt the need for them, operationally. Else they could have acquired other aircraft to supplement the fleet, such as CN-295s etc.



Bangladesh, Indonesia are countries which have no prior history of sanctions with US. Pakistan has. Neither they have an enemy like India which is cozying up with US. 

I agree. The Bangladesh example was quite surprising for PAF And trust me when is say this. We have jokes here in C-130 sqns about this now. 

And PAF has never sat on this requirement. We have lost so many C-130's to accidents. We recently lost one and it has pushed our response time further by x number of minutes. 

Do you know the reason why C-130's were NOT included in the 23rd march fly past of this year? Take a guess? 

We were trying to protect them from IAF. We did not want them flying close to the border since IAF knows C-130's are responsible for the deployment of our jets at forward bases. You take out C-130s. You paralyse our entire Air Force. 

We very much need them but have been unable to acquire them due to political reasons. They are just there. You cant do much about them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

airomerix said:


> Bangladesh, Indonesia are countries which have no prior history of sanctions with US. Pakistan has. Neither they have an enemy like India which is cozying up with US.
> 
> I agree. The Bangladesh example was quite surprising for PAF And trust me when is say this. We have jokes here in C-130 sqns about this now.
> 
> And PAF has never sat on this requirement. We have lost so many C-130's to accidents. We recently lost one and it has pushed our response time further by x number of minutes.
> 
> Do you know the reason why C-130's were NOT included in the 23rd march fly past of this year? Take a guess?
> 
> We were trying to protect them from IAF. We did not want them flying close to the border since IAF knows C-130's are responsible for the deployment of our jets at forward bases. You take out C-130s. You paralyse our entire Air Force.
> 
> We very much need them but have been unable to acquire them due to political reasons. They are just there. You cant do much about them.



If what you say is true, why haven't we acquired CN-295, given the commonality between CN-235s we already operate? If the need is that dire, moving supplies such as bombs and missiles, can be done by that aircraft as well.

Edit: I think the original requirement for CN-235s was 20 aircraft back in the late 90s, early 2000s. Do you know what happened?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

airomerix said:


> Bangladesh, Indonesia are countries which have no prior history of sanctions with US. Pakistan has. Neither they have an enemy like India which is cozying up with US.
> 
> I agree. The Bangladesh example was quite surprising for PAF And trust me when is say this. We have jokes here in C-130 sqns about this now.
> 
> And PAF has never sat on this requirement. We have lost so many C-130's to accidents. We recently lost one and it has pushed our response time further by x number of minutes.
> 
> Do you know the reason why C-130's were NOT included in the 23rd march fly past of this year? Take a guess?
> 
> We were trying to protect them from IAF. We did not want them flying close to the border since IAF knows C-130's are responsible for the deployment of our jets at forward bases. You take out C-130s. You paralyse our entire Air Force.
> 
> We very much need them but have been unable to acquire them due to political reasons. They are just there. You cant do much about them.


This might explain the lack of headway re the LM-100J. LM specifically made a low cost version of the J meant for baseline transport at an all-in (unit procurement and support) cost of around $100 m, and the PAF still can't get it. 

I recall asking a serving pilot why we're not getting certain types of aircraft, like A330 MRTT, A400M or LM-100J, and he said, "the US actively blocks the sale of strategically valuable assets to us, even when they're not of US origin." 

For all our dreams of Su-35s or Typhoons, we at the end of the day went with Azm, and that's a hint as any that when we tried getting a twin engine jet, we got blocked. Hence we locked our chips into a homegrown solution. 

We're at a stage now where the PAF will need to look at something like the Y-9, Y-20, or Ukraine's An-72.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

airomerix said:


> Bangladesh, Indonesia are countries which have no prior history of sanctions with US. Pakistan has. Neither they have an enemy like India which is cozying up with US.



Indonesia got arm embargo from US in a period of 1999 until 2005

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Readerdefence

airomerix said:


> I'm afraid this is not how it works. Every US made asset transfer requires congressional approval. It was required for ex NSAWC F-16s, P-3s, RJAF F-16s, Oliver Perry Class frigates and what so on.
> 
> Getting C-130's has been harder for us as compared to getting F-16s. There were two reasons.
> 
> 1) C-130 is an asset no Air Force wants to get rid of. It has too much utility and Air Forces prefer to keep it in their storage areas rather than selling it off. This is one of the reasons why we seldom see used C-130's in the market.
> 2) US hated the idea of Pakistan using C-130's for bombing missions back in 1965 and 1971. Pakistan has used C-130's to its maximum potential and has been doing a variety of experiments with it which has also been objectionable to the US. In 2005, Pakistan approached US to transfer two C-130H's with Spectre gunship configuration to fight the militants. The idea was gunned down by the pentagon before it even made it to the congress.
> 
> We desperately need to raise the third C-130 squadron in Multan. The pressure on 6 squadron is way too much. 16 C-130's dont just cut it.
> 
> 1) Transport conversion school has its own requirements of atleast 'X' number of airframes (sorry can't disclose the number)
> 
> 2) PAC Kamra needs it for a variety of needs which includes but not limited to JF-17, F-16 parts from China, Turkey and US.
> 
> 3) Tactical deployment of squadrons in war and peacetime presents the biggest demand. Since Feb'19. Our C-130's have been flying with AMRAAM's, sidewinders, SD-10s, PL-5s to forward bases along with the crew.
> 
> 4) Round the clock ISR missions with our 'X' number of specially modified C-130's along the eastern and western borders.
> 
> 5) Troop/crew/assets movement of the Army, Air Force and Navy.
> 
> 6) Natural disasters - Self-explanatory.
> 
> 7) Special flights for government
> 
> 8) Standby C-130's at all times.
> 
> 
> Now ask yourselves. Do 16 C-130's can do the job? If not then why PAF has not been able to get more than 16 in the last 50 years. There is a reason why its called HVA asset.


Hi if I may ask your opinion can we get something similar to c130 in configuration/ price wise 
I can understand about the infrastructure pAF have to have but if you don’t have the choice of getting them for the last so many years with all the other —— USA / Pakistan 
Specially in gunship configuration 
Thank you

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Yasser76

C-130s are not a problem for PAF, we even stored some. Also Saudi has a massive fleet we could easily borrow someone. Stored C-130s are everywhere in the world. A few misinformed posts on here.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Could be the afsar syndrome.
Our C130s, Mirages, Cobras and Ilyushins are historic relics.
Need to be changed.

For C130 we should have a commuter jet design that can cater to civ and mil requirements like kc390 etc. Several such designs are popping up around the world.


GriffinsRule said:


> Very informative post but again, aside from the armed version of C-130, I dont see any reason for congress to deny Pakistans request to get used one available for sale by any operators. If they are up for sale, as was the case with C-130Js that Bangladesh bought from the UK, it means they are available to anyone. I am sure there are other countries waiting to buy used transports too, and that is a separate issue, but you did not address any real reason for Congress to deny PAF's request for plain vanilla versions. I dont think what happened in 1965 has any bearing on this. What you did highlight is Pakistan's dire shortage of tactical lift, and from the way it seems to be going, PAF has shown little interest in even expanding its CN-235/295 fleet (if they were finding it that hard to buy C-130s). Seems like they are okay with making do with what they have.
> 
> In this past decade, RAAF gifted four and later sold 5 more C-130Hs to Indonesia in 2011-2012. Norway has had 5 C-130Hs up for sale with 50% of their life remaining for a few years. Turkey bought 5 used Saudi C-130Es in 2011. We all know Bangladesh bought 5 C-130Js from RAF just last year. Even Bahrain bought 2 C-130Js from RAF. Philippines just bought a couple used ones from US. I am sure there are others as well but I cant research them all. The point is, either PAF has sat on its requirement and missed opportunities to acquire used C-130s or they havent felt the need for them, operationally. Else they could have acquired other aircraft to supplement the fleet, such as CN-295s etc.


----------



## GriffinsRule

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Could be the afsar syndrome.
> Our C130s, Mirages, Cobras and Ilyushins are historic relics.
> Need to be changed.
> 
> For C130 we should have a commuter jet design that can cater to civ and mil requirements like kc390 etc. Several such designs are popping up around the world.


KC-390 is not a civilian aircraft.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Yeah I know but it wont be very hard for Embraer to reconfigure it for airlines or make a commuter jet using same subsystems and parts.

KC390 isn't but ATRs and Sab2000s are being used for dual civ and mil purposes.

So we can develop our industry and make money off of it if we choose to.


GriffinsRule said:


> KC-390 is not a civilian aircraft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Yeah I know but it wont be very hard for Embraer to reconfigure it for airlines or make a commuter jet using same subsystems and parts.
> 
> KC390 isn't but ATRs and Sab2000s are being used for dual civ and mil purposes.
> 
> So we can develop our industry and make money off of it if we choose to.


Thats true, but Saab and ATR are also not tactical transports that can take off from short and unprepared runways. They can compliment each other but never be a replacement for a true airlifter.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Ok then simply make a commuter jet that can do those things i.e take off from short and unprepared strips and be a good commuter airliner as well.

I mean just look what humans have achieved so far. And we Pakistanis started JF17 when we had nothing and were under sanctions. Get international help like we did in JFT case, if it's really that difficult. 

Mastaan Khan was a bitter grinch but he was right about PAF's afsar syndrome and how they sat on their a$$es until everything was too little, too late.


GriffinsRule said:


> Thats true, but Saab and ATR are also not tactical transports that can take off from short and unprepared runways. They can compliment each other but never be a replacement for a true airlifter.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Ok then simply make a commuter jet that can do those things i.e take off from short and unprepared strips and be a good commuter airliner as well.
> 
> I mean just look what humans have achieved so far. And we Pakistanis started JF17 when we had nothing and were under sanctions. Get international help like we did in JFT case, if it's really that difficult.
> 
> Mastaan Khan was a bitter grinch but he was right about PAF's afsar syndrome and how they sat on their a$$es until everything was too little, too late.


The KC-390 is now a Embraer-Boeing venture, so I wouldn't hold too much stock in it anymore seeing that the US is a factor. Instead, I'd actually work with Ukraine, especially the An-70. It's larger than the C-130, however, the An-70's propfan configuration might make it good for our hot-and-high conditions. It could be a serviceable airlifter -- bring both a weight/range improvement over the C-130, while retaining the versatility.

As for the airliner, I'd try talking to Embraer on one of the E-Class. Take one of their older E-class designs, but then work with them to lower its costs further (e.g. select a cheaper engine, swap out some components, etc) and then co-produce it in Pakistan for the domestic and regional airliner market. Once they're immersed, we can ask them to maybe develop a militarized variant down the line for AAR, AEW&C, MPA, etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## khanasifm

Curious as why il-78 fleet was not expanded beyond the 4 as paf is mostly using it for transport and occasionally for aar


----------



## Haris Ali2140

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Ok then simply make a commuter jet that can do those things i.e take off from short and unprepared strips and be a good commuter airliner as well.
> 
> I mean just look what humans have achieved so far. And we Pakistanis started JF17 when we had nothing and were under sanctions. Get international help like we did in JFT case, if it's really that difficult.
> 
> Mastaan Khan was a bitter grinch but he was right about PAF's afsar syndrome and how they sat on their a$$es until everything was too little, too late.


Someone should bring him back.


----------



## Yasser76

khanasifm said:


> Curious as why il-78 fleet was not expanded beyond the 4 as paf is mostly using it for transport and occasionally for aar



Has not been a popular plane in PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Talon

Beautiful video,must watch


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Nasr

When favorable situation presents Pakistan Air Force, then it should start joint venture with China a medium military transport aircraft which would be able to match or supercede the C-130s capabilities. In war, logistical lines being is crucial for victory, and this one area Pakistan Military ought draw it's attention sometime in the near future in-sha-Allah.


----------



## MIRauf

Y-30, scale model was shown a while back 2016s give or take few, perhaps real example may surface soon.

If you are looking for something close to C-130, they are building Y-9s. Some say it's same platform as what is used on PAF KE-03 but i am not 100% sure on that as the newer Y-9 look much refined.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

Hodor said:


> Beautiful video,must watch
> 
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


One of the landing gear doors was slow to retract towards the end?


----------



## Adam_Khan

Yasser76 said:


> Has not been a popular plane in PAF



Also known for being a fuel guzzler.


----------



## air marshal

http://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2372

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

cloud4000 said:


> Pakistan is still MNNA and should have no problem acquiring C-130s. Won’t change the balance of power with India.


lol, india lobbies(or rather cries) even when we get simple assault rifles or MRAPs for counter terror ops..you are talking about c130!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FuturePAF

Should The PAF in conjunction with the Navy and PIA considering going in for a large fleet of Airbus 220. 

It is powered by the most efficient engines currently on the market. Also, currently it comes in two variants -100 and -300 with -500 under consideration. For the Air force and the navy, depending on the mission, it can be used as a Tanker, Transport, AWACS, MPA, ISR Relay for Datalinks instead of satellites. 

If acquired in a deal with PIA as they recapitalize their fleet in a new strategy that focuses on destinations within the 6000 km range of the planned -500 design, Pakistan could field a fleet of a common air frame and bring down the costs to implement, operate, and maintain all the special mission needs, while also being competitive in civil aviation.

Also by building on a civil airliner, the risks of sanctions go down, as the PIA side can supply spares in a time of emergency.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

FuturePAF said:


> Should The PAF in conjunction with the Navy and PIA considering going in for a large fleet of Airbus 220.
> 
> It is powered by the most efficient engines currently on the market. Also, currently it comes in two variants -100 and -300 with -500 under consideration. For the Air force and the navy, depending on the mission, it can be used as a Tanker, Transport, AWACS, MPA, ISR Relay for Datalinks instead of satellites.
> 
> If acquired in a deal with PIA as they recapitalize their fleet in a new strategy that focuses on destinations within the 6000 km range of the planned -500 design, Pakistan could field a fleet of a common air frame and bring down the costs to implement, operate, and maintain all the special mission needs, while also being competitive in civil aviation.
> 
> Also by building on a civil airliner, the risks of sanctions go down, as the PIA side can supply spares in a time of emergency.


Cool idea, but aside from cost, it'd also depend on Airbus' willingness let Pakistan militarize their aircraft. Best case scenario, Airbus would want in our efforts, but that could spike the price (albeit at the cost of OEM expertise and support). But I like the idea, though A220 tanker might be limited to AAR over Pakistan only due to more limited fuel space, unless heavily modified where the freight area is turned into an extended fuel tank.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Talon

Peshawar

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## FuturePAF

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Cool idea, but aside from cost, it'd also depend on Airbus' willingness let Pakistan militarize their aircraft. Best case scenario, Airbus would want in our efforts, but that could spike the price (albeit at the cost of OEM expertise and support). But I like the idea, though A220 tanker might be limited to AAR over Pakistan only due to more limited fuel space, unless heavily modified where the freight area is turned into an extended fuel tank.



For the Tanker the PAF could "purchase" (transfer) and convert some of the PIA's current A320s that would be replaced by the A220. It would look similar to the A310MRT. The goal should be a larger fleet of slightly smaller tankers (than the A330 MRTT or IL-78), such that more are available; for more areas of responsibility as well as to not lose too much capability in the event of one lost to hostile actions.


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

FuturePAF said:


> For the Tanker the PAF could "purchase" (transfer) and convert some of the PIA's current A320s that would be replaced by the A220. It would look similar to the A310MRT. The goal should be a larger fleet of slightly smaller tankers, such that more are available; for more areas of responsibility as well as to not lose to much capability in the event of one lost to hostile actions.


I'd run a similar idea, but with the larger A330. Basically, the PAF can go to the open market and buy second-hand A330s and then modify them into tankers. They probably won't be able to get the boom configuration (for F-16s), but with Ukraine's help, they might be able to fit UPAZ hose-and-drogue pods to the wings. 

I don't think it would cost much more than modifying A320s (even in higher numbers), but you can support more fighters per sortie with the larger aircraft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FuturePAF

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I'd run a similar idea, but with the larger A330. Basically, the PAF can go to the open market and buy second-hand A330s and then modify them into tankers. They probably won't be able to get the boom configuration (for F-16s), but with Ukraine's help, they might be able to fit UPAZ hose-and-drogue pods to the wings.
> 
> I don't think it would cost much more than modifying A320s (even in higher numbers), but you can support more fighters per sortie with the larger aircraft.



The A330MRTT is also a great option, but buying used A330s and going for a Ukrainian option would be the best of both worlds. It all comes down to Balancing Cost to procure the numbers we need and the Fuel Capacity required (based on the mission profiles).

For our F-16s we can buy the Sargent Fletcher Aerial Refueling Tank/System (ART/S) pod or if in the future, the PAF is allowed to upgrade its F-16s, it can go for the confirmal fuel tank based system.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/disc...not-have-in-flight-refuelling-support.455035/










Conformal Aerial Refueling Tank System (CARTS) at Farnborough in 2010

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

Pakistan is not a big country, the transport assets currently in its inventory are sufficient for its strategic and logistics need. Both Herks and MRTT aircraft are undergoing upgrades to extend their service life. What is required is forward planning to replace these aircraft in the mid to long term.


----------



## Readerdefence

fatman17 said:


> Pakistan is not a big country, the transport assets currently in its inventory are sufficient for its strategic and logistics need. Both Herks and MRTT aircraft are undergoing upgrades to extend their service life. What is required is forward planning to replace these aircraft in the mid to long term.


Hi fatman17 how much it will cost paf to buy MRTT and is it possible to put on let’s say two squad of f16 with CFT instead of buying the whole packag of tanker and then maintaining them 
As my thought is it will cost less to upgrade couple of squads with CFT instead of couple of tanker 
Thank you


----------



## fatman17

Readerdefence said:


> Hi fatman17 how much it will cost paf to buy MRTT and is it possible to put on let’s say two squad of f16 with CFT instead of buying the whole packag of tanker and then maintaining them
> As my thought is it will cost less to upgrade couple of squads with CFT instead of couple of tanker
> Thank you


New transport aircraft are very expensive. Used transports are readily available subject to OEM country NOC. Pakistan should evaluate the Chinese and Russian transports for their future needs. They will be cheaper than western aircraft. I'm not sure if CFTs can be fitted on our F16 fleet other than the C/D models.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MIRauf

CFT mostly help the single plane unless used as refueling tanker , while MRTT can refuel many plus perform other task. For PAF using F-16 as refueling buddy is colossal miss use of extremely important asset if looked at it that way.

PS: The planes that need assist from MRTT or could get most use out of MRTT are JF-17 and M-III/V.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## time pass

fatman17 said:


> I'm not sure if CFTs can be fitted on our F16 fleet other than the C/D models.



Yup ..... Only on BLK 50/52s ...



MIRauf said:


> CFT mostly help the single plane unless used as refueling tanker , while MRTT can refuel many plus perform other task. For PAF using F-16 as refueling buddy is colossal miss use of extremely important asset if looked at it that way.
> 
> PS: The planes that need assist from MRTT or could get most use out of MRTT are JF-17 and M-III/V.



CFT is now becoming an integral part with major players (we already seen CFTs on F16s/F15s/F18s) and there are rumors that Chinese are also working for J10s....

Basically, CFT free up 2 hard points for additional payloads which tactically gives you an added value...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

http://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2372

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khanasifm

FuturePAF said:


> The A330MRTT is also a great option, but buying used A330s and going for a Ukrainian option would be the best of both worlds. It all comes down to Balancing Cost to procure the numbers we need and the Fuel Capacity required (based on the mission profiles).
> 
> For our F-16s we can buy the Sargent Fletcher Aerial Refueling Tank/System (ART/S) pod or if in the future, the PAF is allowed to upgrade its F-16s, it can go for the confirmal fuel tank based system.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/disc...not-have-in-flight-refuelling-support.455035/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conformal Aerial Refueling Tank System (CARTS) at Farnborough in 2010



Not a single air force has operationally deployed this solution unless o missed the news just trials and demos


----------



## FuturePAF

khanasifm said:


> Not a single air force has operationally deployed this solution unless o missed the news just trials and demos


It need not be this Exact solution, but a CFT based system with a refueling probe should be considered if we change the doctrine to that of longer range strikes, such as over the water. 
It all depends on the doctrine, and if the PAF finds this upgrade worthwhile.


----------



## MastanKhan

MIRauf said:


> CFT mostly help the single plane unless used as refueling tanker , while MRTT can refuel many plus perform other task. For PAF using F-16 as refueling buddy is colossal miss use of extremely important asset if looked at it that way.
> 
> PS: The planes that need assist from MRTT or could get most use out of MRTT are JF-17 and M-III/V.



Hi,

I believe that the F16 have a good loiter time---plus they have obogs.

The JF17 otoh has an oxygen bottle---so before more fuel is found for the JF17's---we need an obogs installed on this aircraft.

That is why when "Quwa" & I suggested the two seater---convert the back seat space for fuel cell and also add obogs.

JF17 flight time is limited by the oxygen supply to the pilot and not by the fuel shortage---. Obogs should be the first consideration---@Indus Falcon

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## air marshal

http://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130B-Hercules/2400

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MIRauf

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I believe that the F16 have a good loiter time---plus they have obogs.
> 
> The JF17 otoh has an oxygen bottle---so before more fuel is found for the JF17's---we need an obogs installed on this aircraft.
> 
> That is why when "Quwa" & I suggested the two seater---convert the back seat space for fuel cell and also add obogs.
> 
> JF17 flight time is limited by the oxygen supply to the pilot and not by the fuel shortage---. Obogs should be the first consideration---@Indus Falcon



Hi MK, Nice to see you posting again, Welcome back.

I was under the impression that OBOG was tested 5+ years ago and was installed, I take it from reading here that it is not the case. As for O2 bottle(s), if I am not mistaken JF-17 flew from around Queta to Aman Jordan on their way to PAS / FAS few years go ? Now that is a good 3 odd hrs flight time, which makes me believe that there is ample quantity of O2 to support 90 odd Min of Combat with Max load to Conduct the sorties with AAR.

Again, I no expert in these matters, just expressing my views as to why AAR platforms are needed by PAF, or how best PAF could utilize them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I believe that the F16 have a good loiter time---plus they have obogs.
> 
> The JF17 otoh has an oxygen bottle---so before more fuel is found for the JF17's---we need an obogs installed on this aircraft.
> 
> That is why when "Quwa" & I suggested the two seater---convert the back seat space for fuel cell and also add obogs.
> 
> JF17 flight time is limited by the oxygen supply to the pilot and not by the fuel shortage---. Obogs should be the first consideration---@Indus Falcon


Indeed. The quickest way to achieving feature parity with the Tejas was reworking the JF-17B into a single seater, and using the extra space at rear seat for extra fuel, OBOGS, etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## StormBreaker

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Indeed. The quickest way to achieving feature parity with the Tejas was reworking the JF-17B into a single seater, and using the extra space at rear seat for extra fuel, OBOGS, etc.


Don’t you ever feel that B is not “AS MANEUVERABLE AS A”, i always got that feeling since day 1. It’s just too bulky with short wings.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

StormBreaker said:


> Don’t you ever feel that B is not “AS MANEUVERABLE AS A”, i always got that feeling since day 1. It’s just too bulky with short wings.


Are the wings shorter or have the aircraft dimensions changed to make to come to that conclusion?


----------



## POPEYE-Sailor

PAF should consider to replace their old c-130 models.


----------



## Tipu7

fatman17 said:


> Pakistan is not a big country, the transport assets currently in its inventory are sufficient for its strategic and logistics need. Both Herks and MRTT aircraft are undergoing upgrades to extend their service life. What is required is forward planning to replace these aircraft in the mid to long term.


In peace time these aircrafts are sufficient for routine missions and exercises. However in case of crisis, as happened in recent Pulwama crisis, the transport fleet of Pakistan was out strenched and out classed viz a viz our mission requirements.
And No, we are not replacing anything yet. In fact we are looking for raising another squadron of C130 from Surplus stock of any Western country. (based upon PAF learnings)
The need of heavy transport helicopter and aircraft is also there, but the shortage of funds has hampered the desires of full filling such needs.



ahmedlatif said:


> PAF should consider to replace their old c-130 models.


No we are not.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

Tipu7 said:


> In peace time these aircrafts are sufficient for routine missions and exercises. However in case of crisis, as happened in recent Pulwama crisis, the transport fleet of Pakistan was out strenched and out classed viz a viz our mission requirements.
> And No, we are not replacing anything yet. In fact we are looking for raising another squadron of C130 from Surplus stock of any Western country. (based upon PAF learnings)
> The need of heavy transport helicopter and aircraft is also there, but the shortage of funds has hampered the desires of full filling such needs.
> 
> 
> No we are not.



Currently ~14-16 c-130 in 2 transport sqn instead of third transport sqn could raise number of c-130 per sqn to 10/12 ??


----------



## StormBreaker

GriffinsRule said:


> Are the wings shorter or have the aircraft dimensions changed to make to come to that conclusion?


Spine, i am not good at these talks tho. Aeronautics background can talk on this.


----------



## airomerix

khanasifm said:


> Currently ~14-16 c-130 in 2 transport sqn instead of third transport sqn could raise number of c-130 per sqn to 10/12 ??



The third squadron at Multan is necessary to cut fuel costs needed to serve Balochistan and Punjab. 

6 sqn is already overloaded with missions to the north, AHQ duties and foreign flights.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GriffinsRule

airomerix said:


> The third squadron at Multan is necessary to cut fuel costs needed to serve Balochistan and Punjab.
> 
> 6 sqn is already overloaded with missions to the north, AHQ duties and foreign flights.


CN-295s?


----------



## MastanKhan

MIRauf said:


> Hi MK, Nice to see you posting again, Welcome back.
> 
> I was under the impression that OBOG was tested 5+ years ago and was installed, I take it from reading here that it is not the case. As for O2 bottle(s), if I am not mistaken JF-17 flew from around Queta to Aman Jordan on their way to PAS / FAS few years go ? Now that is a good 3 odd hrs flight time, which makes me believe that there is ample quantity of O2 to support 90 odd Min of Combat with Max load to Conduct the sorties with AAR.
> 
> Again, I no expert in these matters, just expressing my views as to why AAR platforms are needed by PAF, or how best PAF could utilize them.



Hi,

It could very well be---.


----------



## mingle

GriffinsRule said:


> CN-295s?


There are alot of surplus airframes around the world PAF can have them


----------



## Cool_Soldier

Time to purchase Transport planes too at-least medium heavy lift platform.
China, Russia could be good option

even Ukraine as well


----------



## airomerix

GriffinsRule said:


> CN-295s?



CN-295s are not even close to the capability of Hercules. We need more Herc's for strategic lift capabilities such as moving military air cargo, SAR missions, PAC requires a herc round the clock for JF-17 sustainment and supply chain needs. 

CN-295 is a good asset for troop movement (not many though), passenger flights and small scale deployment of assets. 

C-130J/A400 is what we need. C-130H is what we will get soon Inshallah.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Yasser76

One thing people forget is that thanks for CPEC Pak motorway and rail system improved a lot recently. For heavy transport duties we have an excellent network, also Pak has minimum commitments globally (supporting international military exercises where required, disaster relief and maybe supporting troops in Saudi, but even here RSAF helps). Need for mass transport fleet is just not there. 16-20 C-130s find. I would argue we need more CN-235s. These can act as MEDVAC, Paradrop, personnel transport, PAF Base support and much cheaper to maintain.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

Yasser76 said:


> One thing people forget is that thanks for CPEC Pak motorway and rail system improved a lot recently. For heavy transport duties we have an excellent network, also Pak has minimum commitments globally (supporting international military exercises where required, disaster relief and maybe supporting troops in Saudi, but even here RSAF helps). Need for mass transport fleet is just not there. 16-20 C-130s find. I would argue we need more CN-235s. These can act as MEDVAC, Paradrop, personnel transport, PAF Base support and much cheaper to maintain.



I expect you say that because you simply have no idea about the military cargo C-130s usually carry. And none of that is fit for transport on a 22 wheeler on these fancy motorways you talked about. Ever saw a bunch of AMRAAMs on a 22 wheeler? Or do you expect delivery of JF-17's front fuselage via these roads? 

Even in war time, there are many assets of Army (such as attack heli's, tanks) which have to be mobilized by air since there is never enough time. And you will never find tanks or heli's stuffed inside a CN-235. 

I wouldn't want to push this topic further because i fear to spill (or someone else spilling) PAF's logistical shortfalls which can become an asset for the enemy. 

But know this, we have additional 8 C-130's in our design for the future. And for a very good reason.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Tank131

Im all for more Hercs if PAF can get them. One of the great strategic advantages of US is the ability to mobilize large volumes of troops and cargo/equipment quickly. The air transport like C-17 and C-130 are at the heart of it. That being said, if they cant get more Hercs or they are too expensive, they could also consider the Y-9 which is roughly on par with the C-130.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## denel

Cool_Soldier said:


> Time to purchase Transport planes too at-least medium heavy lift platform.
> China, Russia could be good option
> 
> even Ukraine as well


medium and lift - CN 235/295 remain best. C-130's otherwise; plenty of surpluses available.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

airomerix said:


> I expect you say that because you simply have no idea about the military cargo C-130s usually carry. And none of that is fit for transport on a 22 wheeler on these fancy motorways you talked about. Ever saw a bunch of AMRAAMs on a 22 wheeler? Or do you expect delivery of JF-17's front fuselage via these roads?
> 
> Even in war time, there are many assets of Army (such as attack heli's, tanks) which have to be mobilized by air since there is never enough time. And you will never find tanks or heli's stuffed inside a CN-235.
> 
> I wouldn't want to push this topic further because i fear to spill (or someone else spilling) PAF's logistical shortfalls which can become an asset for the enemy.
> 
> But know this, we have additional 8 C-130's in our design for the future. And for a very good reason.


When those additional C-130s will come to fruition though is the question. The argument for more CN-295 class aircraft is to fill a gap where we are stretching the C-130 fleet thin due to heavy use. It is better to utilize other assets for certain duties, such as paradrops, medevac supplies or logistics that can fit within the smaller airframe. For the Thunder fuselages even the C-130 won't fit the bill but that's where the Il-78s come into play. 
Basically if C-130 is the F-16 of transport aircraft, we need a JF-17 to compliment it, hence the CN-295 suggestion.
Ideally a used C-130 will remain the cheapest option, but at some point we will need to invest in new aircraft as most countries fly their C-130s for decades. All options for medium sized will be expensive but that's the price we will have to pay

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

Pakistan is buying MA700, from china. It doesnt specify what branch in pakistan is buying it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

airomerix said:


> I expect you say that because you simply have no idea about the military cargo C-130s usually carry. And none of that is fit for transport on a 22 wheeler on these fancy motorways you talked about. Ever saw a bunch of AMRAAMs on a 22 wheeler? Or do you expect delivery of JF-17's front fuselage via these roads?
> 
> Even in war time, there are many assets of Army (such as attack heli's, tanks) which have to be mobilized by air since there is never enough time. And you will never find tanks or heli's stuffed inside a CN-235.
> 
> I wouldn't want to push this topic further because i fear to spill (or someone else spilling) PAF's logistical shortfalls which can become an asset for the enemy.
> 
> But know this, we have additional 8 C-130's in our design for the future. And for a very good reason.


Is LM (or its agent) promoting the LM-100J? There's apparently a government/military version of it, basically serving as a baseline new military Herc (without a lot of the stuff in the C-130J).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

airomerix said:


> I expect you say that because you simply have no idea about the military cargo C-130s usually carry. And none of that is fit for transport on a 22 wheeler on these fancy motorways you talked about. Ever saw a bunch of AMRAAMs on a 22 wheeler? Or do you expect delivery of JF-17's front fuselage via these roads?
> 
> Even in war time, there are many assets of Army (such as attack heli's, tanks) which have to be mobilized by air since there is never enough time. And you will never find tanks or heli's stuffed inside a CN-235.
> 
> I wouldn't want to push this topic further because i fear to spill (or someone else spilling) PAF's logistical shortfalls which can become an asset for the enemy.
> 
> But know this, we have additional 8 C-130's in our design for the future. And for a very good reason.


I think we discussed earlier about Belgiums C130 up for sale we can have them H version


----------



## Gryphon

airomerix said:


> C-130J/A400 is what we need. C-130H is what we will get soon Inshallah.





airomerix said:


> But know this, we have additional 8 C-130's in our design for the future. And for a very good reason.



Ex-USAF C-130H's being pursued ?

What is Pak's capacity to deploy airborne forces (SSG/LCB) across the LOC ?


----------



## khanasifm

Last time paf got 6 c-130 after refurbished for $75M and it was not sure but paid by ?!

Where u going to find such offer even simple chines one will be more costlier 

C-235 from Indonesia costed 54M for 4 of course new planes

Recently all wing boxes were being replaced on older c-130s at paf 


https://www.planecheck.com/index.asp?ent=da&id=14314&cor=y


https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/manufacturer/lockheed


https://www.globalplanesearch.com/lockheed/hercules.htm


State dept approval will be required and mostly likely when Middle Eastern country replace their older with J model than perhaps

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tank131

So PAF has 18 C-130 and 4 CN-235. Frankly that is woefully undersized transport fleet for a military the size of Pakistan's. It needs to be at least double that size. Additionally PAA operates 48 Mi-17 and 45 Aerospatiale Pumas for medium lift. These numbers need to be augmented with some heavy lift choppers and more medium lift choppers.

For the aircraft, getting used Hercs would be the cheapest just getting them refurbished but im not sure how many or where they are on the market. That being said to look at a comprable force size, Turkey operates 19 Hercs, 59 CN-235 and 20 C-160s. So to that end, getting more Hercs and CN-235 or Y-8/Y-9 would be very beneficial for PAF/PA/PN. This can be especially true given how the reaction time of the military in Feb was quite poor. These were tiny skirmishes. In times of war, PAF and PA will rely significantly on the ability to deploy and redeploy. Fast movements will be key.


----------



## GriffinsRule

Tank131 said:


> So PAF has 18 C-130 and 4 CN-235. Frankly that is woefully undersized transport fleet for a military the size of Pakistan's. It needs to be at least double that size. Additionally PAA operates 48 Mi-17 and 45 Aerospatiale Pumas for medium lift. These numbers need to be augmented with some heavy lift choppers and more medium lift choppers.
> 
> For the aircraft, getting used Hercs would be the cheapest just getting them refurbished but im not sure how many or where they are on the market. That being said to look at a comprable force size, Turkey operates 19 Hercs, 59 CN-235 and 20 C-160s. So to that end, getting more Hercs and CN-235 or Y-8/Y-9 would be very beneficial for PAF/PA/PN. This can be especially true given how the reaction time of the military in Feb was quite poor. These were tiny skirmishes. In times of war, PAF and PA will rely significantly on the ability to deploy and redeploy. Fast movements will be key.


Now compare that to the transport aircraft and Helo fleet of Indian military, ours is woefully inadequate

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khanasifm

GriffinsRule said:


> Now compare that to the transport aircraft and Helo fleet of Indian military, ours is woefully inadequate



Yes and India is 10 time bigger with bigger economy and most of them pay taxes too

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

khanasifm said:


> Yes and India is 10 time bigger with bigger economy and most of them pay taxes too


What's taxes?


----------



## Falcon26

Tank131 said:


> So PAF has 18 C-130 and 4 CN-235. Frankly that is woefully undersized transport fleet for a military the size of Pakistan's. It needs to be at least double that size. Additionally PAA operates 48 Mi-17 and 45 Aerospatiale Pumas for medium lift. These numbers need to be augmented with some heavy lift choppers and more medium lift choppers.
> 
> For the aircraft, getting used Hercs would be the cheapest just getting them refurbished but im not sure how many or where they are on the market. That being said to look at a comprable force size, Turkey operates 19 Hercs, 59 CN-235 and 20 C-160s. So to that end, getting more Hercs and CN-235 or Y-8/Y-9 would be very beneficial for PAF/PA/PN. This can be especially true given how the reaction time of the military in Feb was quite poor. These were tiny skirmishes. In times of war, PAF and PA will rely significantly on the ability to deploy and redeploy. Fast movements will be key.



will the Embraer C-390 Millennium ever be a serious contender? And what’s stopping Pakistan from cooperating with Brazil for aircraft manufacturing? @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Yeah exactly what I discussed with @Bilal Khan (Quwa). In addition there are some other hidden potential contenders e.g Antonov from Ukraine has similar designs. 


Falcon26 said:


> will the Embraer C-390 Millennium ever be a serious contender? And what’s stopping Pakistan from cooperating with Brazil for aircraft manufacturing? @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Falcon26 said:


> will the Embraer C-390 Millennium ever be a serious contender? And what’s stopping Pakistan from cooperating with Brazil for aircraft manufacturing? @Bilal Khan (Quwa)





Ahmet Pasha said:


> Yeah exactly what I discussed with @Bilal Khan (Quwa). In addition there are some other hidden potential contenders e.g Antonov from Ukraine has similar designs.


I guess it's probably due to the PAF being in perfect tune with the Herc (like the F-16) in that it would be much, much cheaper to keep adding Hercs than to pivot to a totally new platform. As of now, scarcely few, if any, Herc users switched over to anything but a new Herc. There's a reason for that.

However, all that said and done, perhaps it would've been wiser on all parties to have used the FMF/CSF funding on 8~12 new C-130Js instead of the AH-1Z and F-16s? 

Perhaps then Congress might have not cut the aid since it'd have zero direct military value (logistics is a tougher thing to cry about than Vipers and Zulus).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tank131

GriffinsRule said:


> Now compare that to the transport aircraft and Helo fleet of Indian military, ours is woefully inadequate


Aircraft: 11 C-17, 17 IL-76, 5 C-130J (originally 6 but 1 crashed), and a whopping 105 AN-32 which is roughly in the same class as CN-295


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I guess it's probably due to the PAF being in perfect tune with the Herc (like the F-16) in that it would be much, much cheaper to keep adding Hercs than to pivot to a totally new platform. As of now, scarcely few, if any, Herc users switched over to anything but a new Herc. There's a reason for that.
> 
> However, all that said and done, perhaps it would've been wiser on all parties to have used the FMF/CSF funding on 8~12 new C-130Js instead of the AH-1Z and F-16s?
> 
> Perhaps then Congress might have not cut the aid since it'd have zero direct military value (logistics is a tougher thing to cry about than Vipers and Zulus).



Whole heartedly agree but the love that the herc enjoys is one of the reasons why PAF might HAVE to make a switch. How many countries are currently selling Hercs. Probably the only one I know outright is Brazil which is replacing them with the C-390 and they only have 9. You may find a smattering here or there but im actually unaware of many available used. That being said, as we can look at the structure that many forces use, they rely more heavily on the CN-235 and CN-295 class of aircraft. So PAF needs to add a lot in that realm too. Getting more CN may not be as hard as getting hercs.

So what options beyond Hercs exist?
Of course the aforementioned C-390 which frankly being a jet is likely to be very expensive to operate but it lifts more than the herc by a good margin and carries it further. Other options are the Y-9 which also is marginally better on paper than the Herc and is probably the most readily available alternative. And then you also have the Alenia C-27J spartan which is somewhere in between the CN-295 and the Herc.

Personally i would like to see PAF increase the Herc presence to 28-30 but dramatically increase its CN-235 numbers to around 30. Get PA few Z-8 (~10) and continue to slowly add Mi-17. To grow the number to around 65 (20 more) and need to go with the Pumas.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Why not C27 spartan which is essentially a baby C130. Or C390 from Brazil(Antonov has similar design). Instead of the CN series aircraft which don't have enough clearance or opening wide enough to allow some of types of cargo to be loaded.

We need a medium multi role helicopter program to ease some of the weight across all three services. Turks have a good candidate in form of the 10 ton utility helo which I think they are developing to replace old pumas and to supplement the Blackhawks in their fleet.

We(PAA or PAC) should sign a JV with Turks just like we did with JF17 regarding the helicopters. This helicopter may even have similar parts commonality as ATAK series.

Also this brings me to another point. Pak armed forces and govt is buying aw139. Why don't we cooperate with Turks on Gokbey which is in the same class as AW139. Provided that Gokbey provides similar SAR and hot & high performance parameters as AW139.

PAC needs to come up with new products and diversify. Not just for the armed forces but for the international market as well.


Tank131 said:


> Aircraft: 11 C-17, 17 IL-76, 5 C-130J (originally 6 but 1 crashed), and a whopping 105 AN-32 which is roughly in the same class as CN-295
> 
> 
> Whole heartedly agree but the love that the herc enjoys is one of the reasons why PAF might HAVE to make a switch. How many countries are currently selling Hercs. Probably the only one I know outright is Brazil which is replacing them with the C-390 and they only have 9. You may find a smattering here or there but im actually unaware of many available used. That being said, as we can look at the structure that many forces use, they rely more heavily on the CN-235 and CN-295 class of aircraft. So PAF needs to add a lot in that realm too. Getting more CN may not be as hard as getting hercs.
> 
> So what options beyond Hercs exist?
> Of course the aforementioned C-390 which frankly being a jet is likely to be very expensive to operate but it lifts more than the herc by a good margin and carries it further. Other options are the Y-9 which also is marginally better on paper than the Herc and is probably the most readily available alternative. And then you also have the Alenia C-27J spartan which is somewhere in between the CN-295 and the Herc.
> 
> Personally i would like to see PAF increase the Herc presence to 28-30 but dramatically increase its CN-235 numbers to around 30. Get PA few Z-8 (~10) and continue to slowly add Mi-17. To grow the number to around 65 (20 more) and need to go with the Pumas.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tank131

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Why not C27 spartan which is essentially a baby C130. Or C390 from Brazil(Antonov has similar design). Instead of the CN series aircraft which don't have enough clearance or opening wide enough to allow some of types of cargo to be loaded.
> 
> We need a medium multi role helicopter program to ease some of the weight across all three services. Turks have a good candidate in form of the 10 ton utility helo which I think they are developing to replace old pumas and to supplement the Blackhawks in their fleet.
> 
> We(PAA or PAC) should sign a JV with Turks just like we did with JF17 regarding the helicopters. This helicopter may even have similar parts commonality as ATAK series.
> 
> Also this brings me to another point. Pak armed forces and govt is buying aw139. Why don't we cooperate with Turks on Gokbey which is in the same class as AW139. Provided that Gokbey provides similar SAR and hot & high performance parameters as AW139.
> 
> PAC needs to come up with new products and diversify. Not just for the armed forces but for the international market as well.


Some very good points. With respect to C390 my suspicion is the price if these aircraft will be too expensive. Their unit cost is something like $50M, granted their lift capacity is 2x that of C27J and about 5000kg more than herc. It is also a jet so far more expensive to operate and maintain.

The c27J is a very interesting aircraft. It has significantly better payload than cn235 or c295 and is marginally more expensive. And given that PAF only operates 4 CN-235 it is not a huge logistic problem to replace these with c27J. The cost of these is ~$32M per vs $25M-28M for CNs respectively. The C27J lifts 11,000kg vs 6500-7000 for the CNs. 30 of the Hercs and 30 C27J would be great for PAF.

As for the Helis, the Mi-17 is fairly inexpensive and rugged. Easy to operate. It just seems like a do it all chopper but as u stated, the Pumas are getting long in the teeth. The AW-139 payload is not in the ballpark vs Mi-17 (2100 vs 5000kg).The Gokbey is very similar and would actually work well if PA actually gets Atak (as the same indigenous engine will equip both), however the Aw139 and Gokbey are utility helicopters, not really great fir medium/heavy lift line Puma and Mi-17.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

The point regarding Gokbey vs AW139 is that instead of buying it off the shelf from italians. Make it at home through a JV with Tutks and save some forex.


Tank131 said:


> Some very good points. With respect to C390 my suspicion is the price if these aircraft will be too expensive. Their unit cost is something like $50M, granted their lift capacity is 2x that of C27J and about 5000kg more than herc. It is also a jet so far more expensive to operate and maintain.
> 
> The c27J is a very interesting aircraft. It has significantly better payload than cn235 or c295 and is marginally more expensive. And given that PAF only operates 4 CN-235 it is not a huge logistic problem to replace these with c27J. The cost of these is ~$32M per vs $25M-28M for CNs respectively. The C27J lifts 11,000kg vs 6500-7000 for the CNs. 30 of the Hercs and 30 C27J would be great for PAF.
> 
> As for the Helis, the Mi-17 is fairly inexpensive and rugged. Easy to operate. It just seems like a do it all chopper but as u stated, the Pumas are getting long in the teeth. The AW-139 payload is not in the ballpark vs Mi-17 (2100 vs 5000kg).The Gokbey is very similar and would actually work well if PA actually gets Atak (as the same indigenous engine will equip both), however the Aw139 and Gokbey are utility helicopters, not really great fir medium/heavy lift line Puma and Mi-17.


----------



## GriffinsRule

C27Js are expensive to buy and operate. In fact they are almost a $100MM higher in operating costs vs a C-130 over a 25yr period. And since we already have CN-235 in operation, it makes sense to buy more of the same. 
The Brazilian C390 is good and is getting it's certifications, but it's a new platform, along with the Chinese, and it's true costs outside of acquisitions is unknown. Basically the options are buy C-130Js down the line and CN235/295 as med tier.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tank131

Ahmet Pasha said:


> The point regarding Gokbey vs AW139 is that instead of buying it off the shelf from italians. Make it at home through a JV with Tutks and save some forex.


I absolutely agree with it as i said, especially if PA gets Atak when the indigenous engine is ready as it will be the same engine is powering Gokbey (currently atak uses cts800 and both Atak and Gokbey will then use TS1400). That will lend commonality accross the gunship utility chopper lines.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Falcon26

Tank131 said:


> I absolutely agree with it as i said, especially if PA gets Atak when the indigenous engine is ready as it will be the same engine is powering Gokbey (currently atak uses cts800 and both Atak and Gokbey will then use TS1400). That will lend commonality accross the gunship utility chopper lines.



what do you think about the upcoming Turkish T70 helicopter?


----------



## Tank131

Falcon26 said:


> what do you think about the upcoming Turkish T70 helicopter?


It is basically a licensed copy of the blackhawk so its a great chopper but will likely not be allowed to export

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Falcon26 said:


> what do you think about the upcoming Turkish T70 helicopter?





Tank131 said:


> It is basically a licensed copy of the blackhawk so its a great chopper but will likely not be allowed to export


It's allowed for export, but it'll have to go through US approval due to ITAR. The only solace in it is that LM/Sikorsky probably book a license fee for every T-70 sold, but I don't think the PA would be interested in it -- best to avoid the US. Rather, I would keep an eye on the AW149 with the Safran Aneto engine.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> It's allowed for export, but it'll have to go through US approval due to ITAR. The only solace in it is that LM/Sikorsky probably book a license fee for every T-70 sold, but I don't think the PA would be interested in it -- best to avoid the US. Rather, I would keep an eye on the AW149 with the Safran Aneto engine.


What about the Chinese Z-20? There is a navl version too.


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## MIRauf

Pakhtoon yum said:


> What about the Chinese Z-20? There is a navl version too.



Not yet, they have plan for the naval version in future.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer

C-130s at Gilgit Airport Today.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## air marshal

http://falcons.pk/photo/Embraer-Phenom-100/2451







http://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2449

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal

http://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2456


----------



## Dazzler

Very rarely seen AN-26..

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ziaulislam

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I guess it's probably due to the PAF being in perfect tune with the Herc (like the F-16) in that it would be much, much cheaper to keep adding Hercs than to pivot to a totally new platform. As of now, scarcely few, if any, Herc users switched over to anything but a new Herc. There's a reason for that.
> 
> However, all that said and done, perhaps it would've been wiser on all parties to have used the FMF/CSF funding on 8~12 new C-130Js instead of the AH-1Z and F-16s?
> 
> Perhaps then Congress might have not cut the aid since it'd have zero direct military value (logistics is a tougher thing to cry about than Vipers and Zulus).


INDIA HAS LOBBIED AGAINST PAKISTAN when even getting rifles, bullet proof jackets and mine resistant vehicles...C130 is way up the league..Pakistan even used it to bomb India in 1960s


----------



## Falcon26

ziaulislam said:


> INDIA HAS LOBBIED AGAINST PAKISTAN when even getting rifles, bullet proof jackets and mine resistant vehicles...C130 is way up the league..Pakistan even used it to bomb India in 1960s



If it was up to India, Pakistan will not exist. Don’t worry about indian wet dreams, worry about what needs to be done. Too much significance is given to India and so called Indian lobby. Posters should show maturity.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Falcon26 said:


> If it was up to India, Pakistan will not exist. Don’t worry about indian wet dreams, worry about what needs to be done. Too much significance is given to India and so called Indian lobby. Posters should show maturity.


Zia is jiyala his argument start from Congress ends Indian lobby these excuses nothing more whose job is to counter so called Indian lobby?? When sitting president will write memo gate and sitting PM will do Business in india why US listen Pak?? Why they listen Pak now?? Why not then? difference is leadership and Govt.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Falcon26

mingle said:


> Zia is jiyala his argument start from Congress ends Indian lobby these excuses nothing more whose job is to counter so called Indian lobby?? When sitting president will write memo gate and sitting PM will do Business in india why US listen Pak?? Why they listen Pak now?? Why not then? difference is leadership and Govt.



Pakistanis are Pakistan’s worst enemies. Boogeyman syndrome is pervasive. Thanks for mentioning the PPP & Haqqani.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TOPGUN

Dazzler said:


> Very rarely seen AN-26..



So it is true then PAF does have a AN-26 , is it used for general purpose transport needs ?


----------



## Bossman

TOPGUN said:


> So it is true then PAF does have a AN-26 , is it used for general purpose transport needs ?


Used by the ISI.


----------



## TOPGUN

Bossman said:


> Used by the ISI.



You serious or joking around ?


----------



## mingle

Falcon26 said:


> Pakistanis are Pakistan’s worst enemies. Boogeyman syndrome is pervasive. Thanks for mentioning the PPP & Haqqani.


Asif Zardari and Hussain Haqqani gang were worst enemies of Pak along NS when you beg and get job then You not entitled to ask anything it's up to master what he offers U.
Like Ishaq dollar birbed media houses 55 billions in 5 yrs its was 550 million $$ that time PAF wanted 8 more F16s Dar refused to pay difference along CSF to LM and put it on indian lobby and Jews its all about priorities nothing more.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bossman

TOPGUN said:


> You serious or joking around ?


Serious, was later transferred to a front company called Royal Airlines or something. Google Earth and find the hanger on the right of the runway on Nur Khan base next to the KRL head office. That is ISI’s hanger. They use business jets now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

mingle said:


> Zia is jiyala his argument start from Congress ends Indian lobby these excuses nothing more whose job is to counter so called Indian lobby?? When sitting president will write memo gate and sitting PM will do Business in india why US listen Pak?? Why they listen Pak now?? Why not then? difference is leadership and Govt.


Yes i remeber 8 f16 were approved by congress and indian lobby was unsuccessful ..also indian lobby couldnt out pakistan on FATF either


Falcon26 said:


> If it was up to India, Pakistan will not exist. Don’t worry about indian wet dreams, worry about what needs to be done. Too much significance is given to India and so called Indian lobby. Posters should show maturity.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

ziaulislam said:


> Yes i remeber 8 f16 were approved by congress and indian lobby was unsuccessful ..also indian lobby couldnt out pakistan on FATF either


Zia U not getting point here it's Pak Govt job to counter it and hire lobby firms also local American Pakistani job let theior local members to know but again Govt perceptions count.Govt lobby for theior countries not for themselves In Pak it's otherway around sad reality.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falcon26

ziaulislam said:


> Yes i remeber 8 f16 were approved by congress and indian lobby was unsuccessful ..also indian lobby couldnt out pakistan on FATF either



reality isn’t as one dimensional as you make it sound to be.


----------



## Windjammer

TOPGUN said:


> So it is true then PAF does have a AN-26 , is it used for general purpose transport needs ?


Old picture, obvious from old style flag, it was used briefly but now on a permanent static display.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

mingle said:


> PAF wanted 8 more F16s Dar refused to pay difference along CSF to LM and put it on indian lobby and Jews it





Bossman said:


> Serious, was later transferred to a front company called Royal Airlines or something. Google Earth and find the hanger on the right of the runway on Nur Khan base next to the KRL head office. That is ISI’s hanger. They use business jets now.


Is this true? @airomerix



TOPGUN said:


> So it is true then PAF does have a AN-26 , is it used for general purpose transport needs ?





Bossman said:


> Used by the ISI.


----------



## Trailer23

An-26...!

Flew on that bloody aircraft once (deadheading) from Kabul to Herat. Right after takeoff, the entire plane started shaking like a G**damn nite club. When I finally stepped out (or leaped out), my words were (I believe), "never again".

That plane makes that Fokker F-27 look like a Dreamliner.

I will say this, from the conversation i've had with the crew that operated that thing is that its solid & knows how to take a hit & still fly.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Gripen9

TOPGUN said:


> So it is true then PAF does have a AN-26 , is it used for general purpose transport needs ?


Most probably Afghan AF AN-26 that defected during the 80s.


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TOPGUN

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 601092



This beast of ours is in need of a paint job real bad.


----------



## airomerix

TOPGUN said:


> This beast of ours is in need of a paint job real bad.



And it takes forever to climb out of Chakala. Easy target. 

Thinking of moving them.


----------



## TOPGUN

airomerix said:


> And it takes forever to climb out of Chakala. Easy target.
> 
> Thinking of moving them.



Are you moving them ?


----------



## airomerix

TOPGUN said:


> Are you moving them ?



Nope. The guys at PAF. We keep moving them anyway. 

Where and when is not in my knowledge.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

The aerial transport fleet of Pakistan Air Force can be summarized in three words; Outdated, insufficient, sluggish.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

I guess PAF should start discussing with. USA and EU on potential sale of:
4 to 5 A330 MRT
10 to 12 A-400M
10 to 12 C-130J

As deal finalization can take 2 to 3 years time and then induction into the fleet will gonna take 10 years time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

IM Ozair said:


> I guess PAF should start discussing with. USA and EU on potential sale of:
> 4 to 5 A330 MRT
> 10 to 12 A-400M
> 10 to 12 C-130J
> 
> As deal finalization can take 2 to 3 years time and then induction into the fleet will gonna take 10 years time.


15 to 20 C130 J new and used would be great addition no need A400 yes may have few IL76 too


----------



## TOPGUN

Tipu7 said:


> The aerial transport fleet of Pakistan Air Force can be summarized in three words; Outdated, insufficient, sluggish.



Why would you say so ? what is your claim behind your comment ?


----------



## Yasser76

TOPGUN said:


> Why would you say so ? what is your claim behind your comment ?



We always seem to have an obsession with having a big transport fleet when we really do not need it. Pakistan now has excellent rail and road links. Apart from base resupply, supporting foreign exercises and patratroop training I really do not see why we need so many new transport planes. Current fleet of 16 C-130s and 4 CN-235s seem more then enough. 

Pakistan has no global comitments nor is it like India where much of the country cannot be reach by road or rail.

You will see small countries with excellent transport links and big military budgets do not invest much in these. Look at say Israel, Italy or Tawain. They all operate around 20 decent sized transport planes too. Granted I guess we have a big population and for humanitarian disaster we need planes but the current fleet seems enough. 

If we have bases abroad or Army expanded airborne forces massively then it would make a case for more modern planes

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Haris Ali2140

Yasser76 said:


> We always seem to have an obsession with having a big transport fleet when we really do not need it. Pakistan now has excellent rail and road links. Apart from base resupply, supporting foreign exercises and patratroop training I really do not see why we need so many new transport planes. Current fleet of 16 C-130s and 4 CN-235s seem more then enough.
> 
> Pakistan has no global comitments nor is it like India where much of the country cannot be reach by road or rail.
> 
> You will see small countries with excellent transport links and big military budgets do not invest much in these. Look at say Israel, Italy or Tawain. They all operate around 20 decent sized transport planes too. Granted I guess we have a big population and for humanitarian disaster we need planes but the current fleet seems enough.
> 
> If we have bases abroad or Army expanded airborne forces massively then it would make a case for more modern planes


Pakistan isn't that small. You need tranport planes for fast travel. Railway tracks and roads at stretegic places will be blown first in a full war.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TOPGUN

Yasser76 said:


> We always seem to have an obsession with having a big transport fleet when we really do not need it. Pakistan now has excellent rail and road links. Apart from base resupply, supporting foreign exercises and patratroop training I really do not see why we need so many new transport planes. Current fleet of 16 C-130s and 4 CN-235s seem more then enough.
> 
> Pakistan has no global comitments nor is it like India where much of the country cannot be reach by road or rail.
> 
> You will see small countries with excellent transport links and big military budgets do not invest much in these. Look at say Israel, Italy or Tawain. They all operate around 20 decent sized transport planes too. Granted I guess we have a big population and for humanitarian disaster we need planes but the current fleet seems enough.
> 
> If we have bases abroad or Army expanded airborne forces massively then it would make a case for more modern planes



Agreed to some degree but its got nothing to do with what I asked the other member, also Pakistan isn't such a small country as many of you think compare to all other countries in the world.


----------



## Yasser76

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Pakistan isn't that small. You need tranport planes for fast travel. Railway tracks and roads at stretegic places will be blown first in a full war.



Airstrips will also be destroyed. In terms of say a Lahore to 'Pindi is around 3-4 hours drive, maybe 5 hours in army trucks. That is fast. Probably faster then driving to Nur Khan, loading a C-130, flying to Lahore and unloading. As I said, relatively Pakistan is relatively small. It's all relative in war. Indian units take days to move across India, literally days. We will take hours



TOPGUN said:


> Agreed to some degree but its got nothing to do with what I asked the other member, also Pakistan isn't such a small country as many of you think compare to all other countries in the world.



It is relatively small and you can easily move north to south very quickly. I have done it by road and rail myself. Same cannot be said of India, Iran and Afghanistan


----------



## TOPGUN

Yasser76 said:


> Airstrips will also be destroyed. In terms of say a Lahore to 'Pindi is around 3-4 hours drive, maybe 5 hours in army trucks. That is fast. Probably faster then driving to Nur Khan, loading a C-130, flying to Lahore and unloading. As I said, relatively Pakistan is relatively small. It's all relative in war. Indian units take days to move across India, literally days. We will take hours
> 
> 
> 
> It is relatively small and you can easily move north to south very quickly. I have done it by road and rail myself. Same cannot be said of India, Iran and Afghanistan



I have to disagree you are not getting the point in any case we all have our opinions and by the way Pakistan is bigger then Afghanistan !!


----------



## Haris Ali2140

Yasser76 said:


> Airstrips will also be destroyed. In terms of say a Lahore to 'Pindi is around 3-4 hours drive, maybe 5 hours in army trucks. That is fast. Probably faster then driving to Nur Khan, loading a C-130, flying to Lahore and unloading. As I said, relatively Pakistan is relatively small. It's all relative in war. Indian units take days to move across India, literally days. We will take hours
> 
> 
> 
> It is relatively small and you can easily move north to south very quickly. I have done it by road and rail myself. Same cannot be said of India, Iran and Afghanistan



Hence there is a reason C130s and 17s can takeoff from unpaved runways.

Loading times are same for planes. Depends upon how ready you are. You can go with speed of 80 kph or with 600 kph.


----------



## Yasser76

TOPGUN said:


> I have to disagree you are not getting the point in any case we all have our opinions and by the way Pakistan is bigger then Afghanistan !!



OK, you totally missed my point, it's not just size but relative connectivity. Never mind


----------



## Tipu7

TOPGUN said:


> Why would you say so ? what is your claim behind your comment ?


Multiple. 
First, the fleet is very old. Almost entire cargo fleet of Transport aircrafts is outdated, lack state of art communication & survival suite, suffer from frequent engine issues and are highly maintenance demanding.

Second, fleet size is very limited. Literally only 16 C130 & 4 IL78. That's it! This limit was significantly felt during crisis with India when dispersion of assets & personals became a straining task. There is need of 16 more airframes of varying capacity. 

Third, the fleet is sluggish. Unlike our fighter fleet, transport fleet has poor sortie rate and turn around time. The reliance on slow moving turboprop aircrafts as primary transport craft has compromised the airborne strategic mobility. IL78 got issues of their own. PAF hates that fuel thirsty noisy aircraft which it bought only as a stop gap measure but is forced to keep using it due to Absense of replacement Feasibility.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Trailer23

IM Ozair said:


> I guess PAF should start discussing with. USA and EU on potential sale of:
> 4 to 5 A330 MRT
> 10 to 12 A-400M
> 10 to 12 C-130J


I'd say we stay away from the airbus Family altogether. They've been compromised by you know who.

Down the line parts can become an issue. And last thing you want is someone else dictating the French.

KC-10's & 135's are just as outdated as the IL-76. But a case could be made for the KC-46 (Pegasus) based on the B767.

As far as Transport goes, with the exception of the C-130J, most Members have sidelined the Leonardo/Aliena C-27J (Spartan) based on its size.

Obviously, if we were to look towards our neighbor - the Y-20 would be exceptional, and if it had the Air-to-Air capability, that'd solves both Tanker & Transport altogether. IF.


----------



## Incog_nito

Trailer23 said:


> I'd say we stay away from the airbus Family altogether. They've been compromised by you know who.
> 
> Down the line parts can become an issue. And last thing you want is someone else dictating the French.
> 
> KC-10's & 135's are just as outdated as the IL-76. But a case could be made for the KC-46 (Pegasus) based on the B767.
> 
> As far as Transport goes, with the exception of the C-130J, most Members have sidelined the Leonardo/Aliena C-27J (Spartan) based on its size.
> 
> Obviously, if we were to look towards our neighbor - the Y-20 would be exceptional, and if it had the Air-to-Air capability, that'd solves both Tanker & Transport altogether. IF.



I guess Y-20 is not yet matured and lies in the heavy-lift category of transport.

We can look towards 10 Y-20 with addition to what I have suggested above.



mingle said:


> 15 to 20 C130 J new and used would be great addition no need A400 yes may have few IL76 too


IL-76 will not be with us for long and we can replace it with some additional Y-20s.


----------



## Trailer23

26th November, 2018
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/197920/.html

21st July, 2019
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1158603.shtml


----------



## Tank131

IM Ozair said:


> I guess Y-20 is not yet matured and lies in the heavy-lift category of transport.
> 
> We can look towards 10 Y-20 with addition to what I have suggested above.
> 
> 
> IL-76 will not be with us for long and we can replace it with some additional Y-20s.





Trailer23 said:


> I'd say we stay away from the airbus Family altogether. They've been compromised by you know who.
> 
> Down the line parts can become an issue. And last thing you want is someone else dictating the French.
> 
> KC-10's & 135's are just as outdated as the IL-76. But a case could be made for the KC-46 (Pegasus) based on the B767.
> 
> As far as Transport goes, with the exception of the C-130J, most Members have sidelined the Leonardo/Aliena C-27J (Spartan) based on its size.
> 
> Obviously, if we were to look towards our neighbor - the Y-20 would be exceptional, and if it had the Air-to-Air capability, that'd solves both Tanker & Transport altogether. IF.


For a pakistan, 10 strategic lift aircraft like Y-20 is a bit excessive and expensive. As for the C-21J it was mentioned earlier in this thread and is the perfect backbone of the fleet of transporter. It is situated exactly between C-295 and C-130 in terms of capabilities, costs around the price of C-295 and is from a trusted source (Italy).i would like to see 25 C-21J and 20 C-130 (including those that PAF already have) and 5 Y-20 in PAF. That is a solid transport fleet.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## python-000

another option for PAF transport craft if possible...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

python-000 said:


> another option for PAF transport craft if possible...


who will pay?


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

When I suggested this or the KC390. Typical naysayers were squirming as usual......I also brought up C27J in this thread. As well as the Y20 granted it was not mature at the time.
I'm Awesome.

But the point is Typical Pakistani PDFers say ohh we don't have requirement, ohhh the economies of scale. Bro what u gonna do if u need to move and infantry division from Kashmir to Sindh/Balochistan when the enemy advance only allows 1.5-2 hours, for example?
7-800,000 active duty troops, other military machines such as jeeps, tanks, helo depending on just 16 1965 grandpa C130s and a few C295s hardly very practical.
PakMil logistics need at least:

8-12 A400M(if they really think turboprops save on fuel) or Y20/C17 class of aircraft.

New MRTTs

New C130s to replace old ones and also to add numbers OR New/slightly used KC390s/Kawasaki C2 class to supplement or take on role of C130

C27J/C295 to support C130/KC390 fleet(this rung in the ladder is optional, I believe)

Some new heavy lift helos:
CH53s
CH47
Mi26
Tilt rotors(check out my thread on it)
AW609
Ospreys

OR MAKE OUR OWN.







python-000 said:


> another option for PAF transport craft if possible...



P.S 
Ideally I'd have some C17s, then KC390s/C2s and then optional C27J

Because on paper KC390/C2 is supposed to be better than C130. We'll see when the platform reaches further maturity.

Boeing/Embraer/Kawasaki throw tantrums then Antonov has designs similar to the KC390 on offer. Turks have JVs with Ukrainians. A Turk design that came to light recently.

So there are options. If PAF decides to take off it's "sab acha hai" glasses.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

This is now at the AF museum


Dazzler said:


> Very rarely seen AN-26..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

I think PAF should look towards mix aircraft for transport, instead of putting all of its eggs in one basket.

They should start negotiations on:
10-15 C-130J
10-15 A-400M
6-10 Kawasaki C-2

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zephyrus

PAF's Little Panda
The Harbin Y12

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mingle

IM Ozair said:


> I think PAF should look towards mix aircraft for transport, instead of putting all of its eggs in one basket.
> 
> They should start negotiations on:
> 10-15 C-130J
> 10-15 A-400M
> 6-10 Kawasaki C-2


Wishful thinking my friend

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

mingle said:


> Wishful thinking my friend


PAF shall considered Y-9 which has better performance than CJ-130.

http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/y9.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

Beast said:


> PAF shall considered Y-9 which has better performance than CJ-130.
> 
> http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/y9.htm


A400 are expensive so C2 practical option is C130 new and used or Chinese Y9


----------



## Beast

mingle said:


> A400 are expensive so C2 practical option is C130 new and used or Chinese Y9


C2 using American engine is prone to sanction. Japan will listen to any command order by US. If US ask Japan to sanction Pakistan, they will do it without a blink.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zephyrus

We don't have C295s we have their smaller version the CN235s.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Ukrainian Antonov has a similar design on offer as the KC390/Kawasaki C2


Beast said:


> C2 using American engine is prone to sanction. Japan will listen to any command order by US. If US ask Japan to sanction Pakistan, they will do it without a blink.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Ukrainian Antonov has a similar design on offer as the KC390/Kawasaki C2


No, that one is much smaller and less capable than C2. Plus Ukraine is under war. Many of their production or able to meet the deadline is a question mark. Ask Royal Thai army for their T-84 oplot order. If u order something from Ukraine. Very likely the handover will be delay or even postpone.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

mingle said:


> Wishful thinking my friend


But this should be the future of PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nomad40

Zephyrus said:


> PAF's Little Panda
> The Harbin Y12
> View attachment 604238


This thing is a pain to fly

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

IM Ozair said:


> But this should be the future of PAF.


Ur whole wish list require about 25$$$ billions just for PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

mingle said:


> Ur whole wish list require about 25$$$ billions just for PAF


PAF should have this $$ and machines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1

PAF KING AIR 200 (927)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

PAF should start placing order for new Transport Aircrafts or will China going to provide Pakistan with it's
Y-20s
Y-9s

but PAF should acquire some used C-130s from USA and other operators.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## airomerix

*C-130 #4180 incident on November 8th, 2018*

Folks, the incident report is an internal document hence cannot be posted here. (and also because its the long one) 

I would, however, post (in my own words) declassified core details and causes of the accident in layman terms. 


The maximum torque produced by each engine is around 19600lb

On approach, the torque is leveled down to 3500lb 3500lb 3500lb 3500lb (for all 4 engines)

Upon touch down, the aircraft is idled at 1000lb 1000lb 1000lb 1000lb

Upon slowing down below 115 knots, reverse thrusters are engaged to produce NEGATIVE -3500lb -3500lb -3500lb -3500lb

However, there is a phenomenon called 'Pitch Lock'. The blade angle of the propeller is locked and hence torque remains high.

The engine No.1 of C-130 produces the most torque due to some design characteristics of the aircraft.

The engine No. 1 of the C-130 was pitch locked, leading to the rise in torque at +5500, while the rest of the engines were at -3500. This forced the aircraft to wear off the runway due to the induced force produced by this effect.

Pitch locks happen sometimes, but they are the most difficult to recover from once the aircraft engages reverse thrusters.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## MastanKhan

airomerix said:


> *C-130 #4180 incident on November 8th, 2018*
> 
> Folks, the incident report is an internal document hence cannot be posted here. (and also because its the long one)
> 
> I would, however, post (in my own words) declassified core details and causes of the accident in layman terms.
> 
> 
> The maximum torque produced by each engine is around 19600lb
> 
> On approach, the torque is leveled down to 3500lb 3500lb 3500lb 3500lb (for all 4 engines)
> 
> Upon touch down, the aircraft is idled at 1000lb 1000lb 1000lb 1000lb
> 
> Upon slowing down below 115 knots, reverse thrusters are engaged to produce NEGATIVE -3500lb -3500lb -3500lb -3500lb
> 
> However, there is a phenomenon called 'Pitch Lock'. The blade angle of the propeller is locked and hence torque remains high.
> 
> The engine No.1 of C-130 produces the most torque due to some design characteristics of the aircraft.
> 
> The engine No. 1 of the C-130 was pitch locked, leading to the rise in torque at +5500, while the rest of the engines were at -3500. This forced the aircraft to wear off the runway due to the induced force produced by this effect.
> 
> Pitch locks happen sometimes, but they are the most difficult to recover from once the aircraft engages reverse thrusters.



Hi,

It is information---but it means nothing here---just show boating by the poster---.


----------



## GriffinsRule

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is information---but it means nothing here---just show boating by the poster---.


Actually previously I thought the accident was due to a hard landing during touch and go, where the tyres burst and thus causing the aircraft to veer off. Its good information to know.


----------



## MastanKhan

GriffinsRule said:


> Actually previously I thought the accident was due to a hard landing during touch and go, where the tyres burst and thus causing the aircraft to veer off. Its good information to know.



But the same in a car---torque horse power---. What does that mean to an average customer---nothing---Only way to find out---step on the gas and see it go---.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

MastanKhan said:


> But the same in a car---torque horse power---. What does that mean to an average customer---nothing---Only way to find out---step on the gas and see it go---.





MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is information---but it means nothing here---just show boating by the poster---.



Not everyone is intellectually dumb and numb like you. 

No one can and should help you if you are unable to swallow your misplaced sense of pride. 

Also, go back to school. This is the reason why you can't understand what torque is. Thanks for demonstrating your idiotic sense of purpose once again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MastanKhan

airomerix said:


> Not everyone is intellectually dumb and numb like you.
> 
> No one can and should help you if you are unable to swallow your misplaced sense of pride.
> 
> Also, go back to school. This is the reason why you can't understand what torque is. Thanks for demonstrating your idiotic sense of purpose once again.



Automotive engineering background by schooling son---. I guess you did not know---. I guess you the only idiot left on the forum who did not know that---.

The video did prove me right didn't it---pilot at the wrong place in the mountain terrain---. Talk is cheap---there have been many like you who have come and many who have gone---and ample time to EJECT---.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1238739605194768385

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

MastanKhan said:


> Automotive engineering background by schooling son---. I guess you did not know---. I guess you the only idiot left on the forum who did not know that---.
> 
> The video did prove me right didn't it---pilot at the wrong place in the mountain terrain---. Talk is cheap---there have been many like you who have come and many who have gone---and ample time to EJECT---.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1238739605194768385



I dont care what your profession is. Chances are, whatever you do, you'll be at the bottom of the entire food chain. 

As for your conclusion of the investigation, I just hope you dont look as stupid as you sound. Otherwise, you'd be twice as useless. 

Still I'd say, hold your tiny nuts and wait for the investigation report. Your automotive engineering might be only limited to tuk tuk and which you are forcing on to aviation.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

@airomerix

Is there any chance the PAF is keeping an eye on the Chinese Y-20? It feels like a natural successor to the IL-78s -- certainly more fuel efficient and, in turn, better at the heavy transport and tanker role. Or is the PAF willing to stomach and take on a riskier bet, such as one of Antonov's shelved aircraft (e.g., An-70), like Turkey is doing (i.e., funding a variant of the An-70 equipped with jets). The An-70 is the closest A400M-like aircraft out there.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## airomerix

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> @airomerix
> 
> Is there any chance the PAF is keeping an eye on the Chinese Y-20? It feels like a natural successor to the IL-78s -- certainly more fuel efficient and, in turn, better at the heavy transport and tanker role. Or is the PAF willing to stomach and take on a riskier bet, such as one of Antonov's shelved aircraft (e.g., An-70), like Turkey is doing (i.e., funding a variant of the An-70 equipped with jets). The An-70 is the closest A400M-like aircraft out there.


Il-78s are doing their work pretty well. Furthermore, PAF does not have the priority of strategic lifters. They are expensive to acquire, maintain and fly. I keep hearing about AHQ looking for C-130's because we need a squadron in Multan to take some duties off from No.21 and No. 6 sqn.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ziaulislam

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> @airomerix
> 
> Is there any chance the PAF is keeping an eye on the Chinese Y-20? It feels like a natural successor to the IL-78s -- certainly more fuel efficient and, in turn, better at the heavy transport and tanker role. Or is the PAF willing to stomach and take on a riskier bet, such as one of Antonov's shelved aircraft (e.g., An-70), like Turkey is doing (i.e., funding a variant of the An-70 equipped with jets). The An-70 is the closest A400M-like aircraft out there.


Seems eveeyone is betting on cheap used equipment from USA۔۔which IMO isnt going to happen given change in geo startegic realities

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MastanKhan

airomerix said:


> I dont care what your profession is. Chances are, whatever you do, you'll be at the bottom of the entire food chain.
> 
> As for your conclusion of the investigation, I just hope you dont look as stupid as you sound. Otherwise, you'd be twice as useless.
> 
> Still I'd say, hold your tiny nuts and wait for the investigation report. Your automotive engineering might be only limited to tuk tuk and which you are forcing on to aviation.




Go away---shoo off---.


----------



## Windjammer

MastanKhan said:


> The video did prove me right didn't it---pilot at the wrong place in the mountain terrain---. .


How does that matter.....he didn't crash into some mountain.....besides if anything he was flying over a jungle/woodlands.....considerably away from Margala Hills.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gangsta_rap

MastanKhan said:


> Go away---shoo off---.


maybe you should heed a lesson from him and learn some humility
in all the years under your belt - you make it seem as if nobody took the time to school you on what it means to be humble


----------



## mingle

airomerix said:


> Il-78s are doing their work pretty well. Furthermore, PAF does not have the priority of strategic lifters. They are expensive to acquire, maintain and fly. I keep hearing about AHQ looking for C-130's because we need a squadron in Multan to take some duties off from No.21 and No. 6 sqn.


@Bilal Khan (Quwa) if he is right what he talks about then Ur theory fits into it that PAF should go C130 J


----------



## GriffinsRule

mingle said:


> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) if he is right what he talks about then Ur theory fits into it that PAF should go C130 J


PAF certainly should look into getting C-130Js, new (as old are not available really bar what Bangladesh already scored). USAF is on the cusp of retiring a lot of C-130Hs (very well used), however, we really should buy new built J variants that will serve us for another 50 years. Getting them in small batches to spread out the sticker shock is perhaps a good way to go about it. 
They can be complimented with CN-295s

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

GriffinsRule said:


> PAF certainly should look into getting C-130Js, new (as old are not available really bar what Bangladesh already scored). USAF is on the cusp of retiring a lot of C-130Hs (very well used), however, we really should buy new built J variants that will serve us for another 50 years. Getting them in small batches to spread out the sticker shock is perhaps a good way to go about it.
> They can be complimented with CN-295s


Need at least one full sqad Belgium have H for sale Indonesia and BD are new weapon markets Boeing touting Apacha for BD air force and Indonesia cancel flankers deal and switch to F-16 and also looking into F35 slot so things are changing I hope Pak will get her share too


----------



## GriffinsRule

mingle said:


> Need at least one full sqad Belgium have H for sale Indonesia and BD are new weapon markets Boeing touting Apacha for BD air force and Indonesia cancel flankers deal and switch to F-16 and also looking into F35 slot so things are changing I hope Pak will get her share too



They are small markets though. Shows you the desperation of the large manufacturers. They are even selling Chinook to the Afghans that they denied PA after the earthquake.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

GriffinsRule said:


> They are small markets though. Shows you the desperation of the large manufacturers. They are even selling Chinook to the Afghans that they denied PA after the earthquake.


Pak should tap theior desperation also make sence why they offered F15 E to Pak according to @Knuckles Boeing tanked due to Max scandal. Selling Chinook to Afghanistan is also laughable they don't have enough human resource to deal with these Helis Mi17 is good option for them


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

GriffinsRule said:


> PAF certainly should look into getting C-130Js, new (as old are not available really bar what Bangladesh already scored). USAF is on the cusp of retiring a lot of C-130Hs (very well used), however, we really should buy new built J variants that will serve us for another 50 years. Getting them in small batches to spread out the sticker shock is perhaps a good way to go about it.
> They can be complimented with CN-295s


PAF has explored C130J option couple of times but have scrapped it every time due to lack of affordability. Even with FMF, C130J are hard to acquire. Therfore, we have always looked at second hand ones and are still looking.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Talon

PAF raises new squadron No. 52 Markhors consisting of CN235s, previously flying under No. 6 Antelopes

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 614599


I'll say it ... this is the best patch in the PAF. It has that right mix of applicability to us with no zero campy-ness/over-the-top drama. 


Tipu7 said:


> PAF has explored C130J option couple of times but have scrapped it every time due to lack of affordability. Even with FMF, C130J are hard to acquire. Therfore, we have always looked at second hand ones and are still looking.


LM is apparently offering the LM100J for military usage. It's basically the C-130J, but without self-protection suite and other electronics. Though if the PAF opts for the LM-100J, it'll still want to put in the C-130H's Rockwell suite at least. $100 M per new plane isn't bad (including a few years of maintenance/support).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mingle

Tipu7 said:


> PAF has explored C130J option couple of times but have scrapped it every time due to lack of affordability. Even with FMF, C130J are hard to acquire. Therfore, we have always looked at second hand ones and are still looking.


Belgium has some for sale along Jordan got few


----------



## Talon

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I'll say it ... this is the best patch in the PAF. It has that right mix of applicability to us with no zero campy-ness/over-the-top drama.



That's because it was designed by a Turkish patch designer instead of certain famous pakistani copy cats.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mingle

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I'll say it ... this is the best patch in the PAF. It has that right mix of applicability to us with no zero campy-ness/over-the-top drama.
> 
> LM is apparently offering the LM100J for military usage. It's basically the C-130J, but without self-protection suite and other electronics. Though if the PAF opts for the LM-100J, it'll still want to put in the C-130H's Rockwell suite at least. $100 M per new plane isn't bad (including a few years of maintenance/support).


PAF can do a Mix bag deal with LM New C100 j along used air frame C130 and upgrade all of them if looking 15 plane take half and half package around billion $$ making LM partner would help PAF acquire used airframe in good numbers too.


----------



## Viper27

Hodor said:


> PAF raises new squadron No. 52 Markhors consisting of CN235s, previously flying under No. 6 Antelopes
> 
> View attachment 614691
> View attachment 614692



So does this imply that the number of CN-235 will be increased?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

Viper27 said:


> So does this imply that the number of CN-235 will be increased?


Sounds like it

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Haris Ali2140

GriffinsRule said:


> Sounds like it


Any chance of Y-20???


----------



## mingle

GriffinsRule said:


> Sounds like it


@airomerix predicted not telling how many numbers we looking along new or used from Indonesia or from Turkey and Jordan??


----------



## khanasifm

mingle said:


> @airomerix predicted not telling how many numbers we looking along new or used from Indonesia or from Turkey and Jordan??




Last time 4 c235 costed 49 million so little over 10 per plane but it would have included planes, training , support etc which is already in place so now another 4 may cost 6/8 million a pop Plus inflation

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

khanasifm said:


> Last time 4 c235 costed 49 million so little over 10 per plane but it would have included planes, training , support etc which is already in place so now another 4 may cost 6/8 million a pop Plus inflation


They are cheap PAF can build a good fleet around 15-20 can fit between C130 and Mi17 lift.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm

mingle said:


> They are cheap PAF can build a good fleet around 15-20 can fit between C130 and Mi17 lift.




Paf bought 6 used c-130 plus one for spares for 75M back in 2000ish so between c235 and c-130 I will go for c-130 used one , Saudi are replacing their c-130 fleet with new aircraft and ... who knows

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

khanasifm said:


> Paf bought 6 used c-130 plus one for spares for 75M back in 2000ish so between c235 and c-130 I will go for c-130 used one , Saudi are replacing their c-130 fleet with new aircraft and ... who knows


US has quite a few at Arizona desert let's see I hope we get through corona crisis with minimum impact.


----------



## mshan44

*A Glimpse of Pakistan's Fifth Generation Fighter Jet on the tail of C-130 Hercules.
*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nomad40

mshan44 said:


> *A Glimpse of Pakistan's Fifth Generation Fighter Jet on the tail of C-130 Hercules.
> *
> 
> View attachment 617401


cartoonish

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244189854751211521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244190429584723969

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246389501578133504

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aziqbal

I am worried about the C130 fleet 

they are very old and although upgraded they pose a danger to a lot of people and even worse paratroopers 

we should start to phase these out 

Y-9 is cheaper and newer 

these C130 needs to go and quickly

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

How PAF miss the opportunity of getting surplus Royal airforce's C-130J which BAF is getting them


----------



## PakFactor

aziqbal said:


> I am worried about the C130 fleet
> 
> they are very old and although upgraded they pose a danger to a lot of people and even worse paratroopers
> 
> we should start to phase these out
> 
> Y-9 is cheaper and newer
> 
> these C130 needs to go and quickly



Probably sell the C-130s; and replace them with Chinese variants but we should move away from the propeller models and go for the engine one's.
Medium to Heavy weight class.


----------



## Trailer23




----------



## Trailer23

I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...






Music Credit: @NA71 

@Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle 
@Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar

Reactions: Like Like:
37


----------



## Maxpane

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


just amazing work bhai. its truely beautiful . A great way to appreciate all those drivers who drive heavy giants

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## StormBreaker

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


@Syed Hammad Ahmed 0:58 pe sab ke sab pochinki pe utar gaye

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NA71

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71


O man O man....credit goes to you..bro....(music source is TRT World)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Path-Finder

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


Excellent

Reactions: Like Like:

2


----------



## Nomad40

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar



WOW!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar




Superb bro

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dil Pakistan

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar



Beauty.....loved the music.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TOPGUN

Outstanding video bro a great salute to the transport fleet of PAF !!


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Idk why I always find myself criticizing the music. Great visuals. But music kinda sounded like StarPlus music.


Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


----------



## Liquidmetal

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


Brilliant as always.


----------



## Ghessan

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar



good work indeed.
can you make a video on Pak Army Combat helicopters and their operation along with army operation on the ground on WOT?


----------



## fatman17

Air Platforms
*China’s Y-20 aircraft capable of transporting two Type 15 lightweight tanks, claims state media*
*Gabriel Dominguez, London and Juan Ju, Bonn* - Jane's Defence Weekly
09 April 2020








Computer-generated imagery from a 7 April CCTV 7 report showing two Type 15 tanks in the cargo bay of a Y-20 transport aircraft. Source: CCTV 7
Chinese state-owned media has claimed that the Xian Aircraft Corporation (XAC) Y-20A Kunpeng strategic transport aircraft is capable of transporting up to two Type 15 (also commonly referred to as ZTQ-15) lightweight battle tanks.

In a 7 April report about military science and technology China Central Television 7 (CCTV 7) also released computer-generated imagery showing two Type 15s in the cargo bay of the aircraft, which has an estimated maximum payload of 66 tonnes and a maximum take-off weight of 220 tonnes, according to _Jane's All the World's Aircraft_.

Chinese official sources put the range of the aircraft, which the state-owned _Global Times_ newspaper claims is also capable of transporting one 52,000-54,000-tonne Type 99A-series main battle tank, at 4,000 km at maximum payload.

The Type 15 lightweight tank, which officially entered service with the People's Liberation Army Ground Force (PLAGF) in 2018, is believed to weigh 33 tonnes in its basic configuration. This may increase to 36 tonnes if an improved explosive reactive armour package is added.

The _Global Times_ quoted Fu Qianshao, a Chinese air defence expert, as saying that "multiple Y-20s can transport a mixture of Type 15s, Type 99As and other kinds of armoured vehicles, leading to a significant improvement in China's long-range rapid deployment" and strategic transport capability. The four-turbofan Y-20 officially entered service with the PLA Air Force in 2016.

The Type 15, which is armed with a 105 mm gun, is protected against hand-held anti-tank weapons. The gun is thought to be capable of firing an armour-piercing, fin-stabilised, discarding sabot (APFSDS) round that is probably capable of penetrating 500 mm of armour from typical combat ranges.


----------



## khanasifm

fatman17 said:


> Air Platforms
> *China’s Y-20 aircraft capable of transporting two Type 15 lightweight tanks, claims state media*
> *Gabriel Dominguez, London and Juan Ju, Bonn* - Jane's Defence Weekly
> 09 April 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Computer-generated imagery from a 7 April CCTV 7 report showing two Type 15 tanks in the cargo bay of a Y-20 transport aircraft. Source: CCTV 7
> Chinese state-owned media has claimed that the Xian Aircraft Corporation (XAC) Y-20A Kunpeng strategic transport aircraft is capable of transporting up to two Type 15 (also commonly referred to as ZTQ-15) lightweight battle tanks.
> 
> In a 7 April report about military science and technology China Central Television 7 (CCTV 7) also released computer-generated imagery showing two Type 15s in the cargo bay of the aircraft, which has an estimated maximum payload of 66 tonnes and a maximum take-off weight of 220 tonnes, according to _Jane's All the World's Aircraft_.
> 
> Chinese official sources put the range of the aircraft, which the state-owned _Global Times_ newspaper claims is also capable of transporting one 52,000-54,000-tonne Type 99A-series main battle tank, at 4,000 km at maximum payload.
> 
> The Type 15 lightweight tank, which officially entered service with the People's Liberation Army Ground Force (PLAGF) in 2018, is believed to weigh 33 tonnes in its basic configuration. This may increase to 36 tonnes if an improved explosive reactive armour package is added.
> 
> The _Global Times_ quoted Fu Qianshao, a Chinese air defence expert, as saying that "multiple Y-20s can transport a mixture of Type 15s, Type 99As and other kinds of armoured vehicles, leading to a significant improvement in China's long-range rapid deployment" and strategic transport capability. The four-turbofan Y-20 officially entered service with the PLA Air Force in 2016.
> 
> The Type 15, which is armed with a 105 mm gun, is protected against hand-held anti-tank weapons. The gun is thought to be capable of firing an armour-piercing, fin-stabilised, discarding sabot (APFSDS) round that is probably capable of penetrating 500 mm of armour from typical combat ranges.





Perhaps IL-78 replacement in a decade or so in both transport and tanker role

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hassan Guy

khanasifm said:


> Perhaps IL-78 replacement in a decade or so in both transport and tanker role


This would make sense, but the mentality in the Pakistani military seems to be against the logical idea of replacing a system with a newer successor and instead favors acquiring and upgrading more of the old stuff.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Hassan Guy said:


> This would make sense, but the mentality in the Pakistani military seems to be against the logical idea of replacing a system with a newer successor and instead favors acquiring and upgrading more of the old stuff.


To be fair, the focus on the old stuff has a lot to do with stretching value out of the sunk support/infrastructure costs for those oldies (esp. C-130).

But you're right.

The old stuff works now, but it's getting harder to support them, and there's no long-term successor for the day when it's simply not possible to support the old stuff.

If anything, if you can affordably keep stretching old stuff, it should be easier to fund an in-house successor. There's less of a rush to replace it, so you can have a slower, longer term R&D process. I like what the PN is doing. It will keep the P-3Cs alive for as long as possible, but it's still working on a next-gen LRMPA program.

The challenge with the Herc is that it's a one-of-a-kind. There's a widespread saying all over the world, "only a Herc can replace a Herc." The PAF knows that any Herc variant can readily work in all of its ops environments (esp. high-altitude, dusty, etc areas).

But I don't think we have to be so fatalistic. If we have a problem, then surely, there's a solution out there somewhere. If the PAF can keep the Hercs alive for 1-2 decades, then it could set-up an in-house/joint-venture for a successor.

Just saying, Ukraine seems to have the inputs to make a serviceable transport aircraft.

1. You could pick-up shelved program -- like An-70 -- and fund a pilot in Ukraine to bring it up to serviceable standard, restore the manufacturing line (in both Ukraine and Pakistan), and other steps over 10-15 years.

2. You could look into an existing program -- like An-178 -- and work with Ukraine to up its payload, operational range, etc. This is almost like a new development program as it may require airframe enlargement, new engines, etc.

3. You could use the existing inputs (e.g., D-27 propfan engine, Antonov's design and engineering expertise for transport aircraft, etc) to get Ukraine to design a new clean-sheet transport aircraft.

Turkey is doing a mix of 1 and 2 with the An-70. So, basically, Turkey's working with Ukraine to co-develop a variant of the An-70 with jet engines (i.e., An-188). However, with a payload of 50 tons, the An-188 will be a large aircraft (Y-20-class).

Pakistan could look at co-funding a transport with a payload of 20 tons (i.e., C-130-class), perhaps with turboprops instead of jet engines (to cover its unique hot-and-high, rugged, etc) needs. 

Or take a more conservative route by co-funding a new variant of the An-178, but with the more fuel efficient AI-28 turbofan engines and a slightly enlarged airframe (doable since the An-178 is an enlarged An-158, itself an enlarged An-148). This may not 100% succeed the C-130s, but by taking up most transport duties (i.e., outside rugged areas), may help keep the Hercs flying for longer in specialized roles.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Avicenna

Trailer23 said:


> I hope you all like the non-Jets edit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Music Credit: @NA71
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar



Very nice!


----------



## Yasser76

Avicenna said:


> Very nice!



Should of picked up all of the used 16 RAF C-130Js when they put these up for sale, only $3 million each, Bangladesh did this with 4 examples

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Avicenna

Yasser76 said:


> Should of picked up all of the used 16 RAF C-130Js when they put these up for sale, only $3 million each, Bangladesh did this with 4 examples



5 actually.

https://www.janes.com/article/90722...-of-five-uk-surplus-c-130j-transport-aircraft

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ali_raza

Yasser76 said:


> Should of picked up all of the used 16 RAF C-130Js when they put these up for sale, only $3 million each, Bangladesh did this with 4 examples


bas bad move on our part it would have been grabbed with both hands 
ik was good with brits he could easily got em

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

ali_raza said:


> bas bad move on our part it would have been grabbed with both hands
> ik was good with brits he could easily got em


Ik can only act if PAF ask him he can do it for sure even still but unless Air Cheif won't ask he will not I have seen his way he listens professionals and act on their advice So Cheif needs to ask him


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

I remember discussing this with you coiple monrhs back. The AN 70 looks like it coulf rival C390. Do you think C390 class could take on role from C130 and render them obsolete over time? 2 turbo fans vs 4 Turboprops. Is there any benefit?

It seems like the An188 is slotted between C17 and C130. But definitely 2x or 1.5x capabilities of C390. I think Turks will definitely apply experience/lessons from A400M.

Turks are opening so many new avenues with JV and local ventures. Pakistan military industrial complexes sitting on their behind. Except maybe PAC with TAI. And POF trying in the form of getting new CNC equipment and making a Pakistani take on the AR10.


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> To be fair, the focus on the old stuff has a lot to do with stretching value out of the sunk support/infrastructure costs for those oldies (esp. C-130).
> 
> But you're right.
> 
> The old stuff works now, but it's getting harder to support them, and there's no long-term successor for the day when it's simply not possible to support the old stuff.
> 
> If anything, if you can affordably keep stretching old stuff, it should be easier to fund an in-house successor. There's less of a rush to replace it, so you can have a slower, longer term R&D process. I like what the PN is doing. It will keep the P-3Cs alive for as long as possible, but it's still working on a next-gen LRMPA program.
> 
> The challenge with the Herc is that it's a one-of-a-kind. There's a widespread saying all over the world, "only a Herc can replace a Herc." The PAF knows that any Herc variant can readily work in all of its ops environments (esp. high-altitude, dusty, etc areas).
> 
> But I don't think we have to be so fatalistic. If we have a problem, then surely, there's a solution out there somewhere. If the PAF can keep the Hercs alive for 1-2 decades, then it could set-up an in-house/joint-venture for a successor.
> 
> Just saying, Ukraine seems to have the inputs to make a serviceable transport aircraft.
> 
> 1. You could pick-up shelved program -- like An-70 -- and fund a pilot in Ukraine to bring it up to serviceable standard, restore the manufacturing line (in both Ukraine and Pakistan), and other steps over 10-15 years.
> 
> 2. You could look into an existing program -- like An-178 -- and work with Ukraine to up its payload, operational range, etc. This is almost like a new development program as it may require airframe enlargement, new engines, etc.
> 
> 3. You could use the existing inputs (e.g., D-27 propfan engine, Antonov's design and engineering expertise for transport aircraft, etc) to get Ukraine to design a new clean-sheet transport aircraft.
> 
> Turkey is doing a mix of 1 and 2 with the An-70. So, basically, Turkey's working with Ukraine to co-develop a variant of the An-70 with jet engines (i.e., An-188). However, with a payload of 50 tons, the An-188 will be a large aircraft (Y-20-class).
> 
> Pakistan could look at co-funding a transport with a payload of 20 tons (i.e., C-130-class), perhaps with turboprops instead of jet engines (to cover its unique hot-and-high, rugged, etc) needs.
> 
> Or take a more conservative route by co-funding a new variant of the An-178, but with the more fuel efficient AI-28 turbofan engines and a slightly enlarged airframe (doable since the An-178 is an enlarged An-158, itself an enlarged An-148). This may not 100% succeed the C-130s, but by taking up most transport duties (i.e., outside rugged areas), may help keep the Hercs flying for longer in specialized roles.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ali_raza

mingle said:


> Ik can only act if PAF ask him he can do it for sure even still but unless Air Cheif won't ask he will not I have seen his way he listens professionals and act on their advice So Cheif needs to ask him


exactly ik damn cares or knows wht a J variant herc is it was great plane but as always they missed the chance

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Raven

I would prefer the C390 rather than the AN-70. The commercial engines of the C390 will be far easier to maintain, while the engines of the AN-70 and its contrarotating props had significant issues and would be a maintenance nightmare, with low serviceability rates. Not to mention the fact that two commercial turbofans offer better fuel economy and performance than 4 torboprops. Any attempt at resurrecting the AN-70 programme, especially with a different engine, would be extremely costly, and simply not worth it given the numbers that are likely to be acquired.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Ahmet Pasha said:


> I remember discussing this with you coiple monrhs back. The AN 70 looks like it coulf rival C390. Do you think C390 class could take on role from C130 and render them obsolete over time? 2 turbo fans vs 4 Turboprops. Is there any benefit?
> 
> It seems like the An188 is slotted between C17 and C130. But definitely 2x or 1.5x capabilities of C390. I think Turks will definitely apply experience/lessons from A400M.
> 
> Turks are opening so many new avenues with JV and local ventures. Pakistan military industrial complexes sitting on their behind. Except maybe PAC with TAI. And POF trying in the form of getting new CNC equipment and making a Pakistani take on the AR10.





The Raven said:


> I would prefer the C390 rather than the AN-70. The commercial engines of the C390 will be far easier to maintain, while the engines of the AN-70 and its contrarotating props had significant issues and would be a maintenance nightmare, with low serviceability rates. Not to mention the fact that two commercial turbofans offer better fuel economy and performance than 4 torboprops. Any attempt at resurrecting the AN-70 programme, especially with a different engine, would be extremely costly, and simply not worth it given the numbers that are likely to be acquired.


I agree with @The Raven. Besides, the An-70 has been rolled into the An-188 anyways, it's unlikely Ukraine has enough bandwidth on that platform to keep the propfan version alive. I believe that if the An-188 succeeds, the PAF can consider it as a heavyweight option to replace the IL-78.

The issue for us is finding a suitable successor to the Herc. I suspect deep down the PAF would love new C-130J-30s or LM-100Js, but its eyes are on used C-130B/Es.

Otherwise, there's one different but great option in the C-390. The upfront cost is decent, and the maintenance/support pretty good. I guess the C-390's main hangup for the PAF is whether it can operate from incomplete runways or deal with debris. The Herc definitely can.

But as I said earlier, the C-390 can probably fly from most areas, so it can handle most duties (and at lower cost thanks to its engines). This could lengthen the lives of the Hercs, and the PAF can also look at small no of new C-130Js down the line if the US agrees to HADR aid or something of that nature.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2372

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

An178 rivals KC390

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Ahmet Pasha said:


> An178 rivals KC390
> View attachment 626345


IIRC not as much payload capacity when measured at various ranges. But the new AI-28 turbofan engine might help fix that. That said, I don't think the An-178 is any more 'safe' than the C390 as it relies on North American suppliers as well. The C390, at least, uses a lot of civilian off the shelf tech (esp engine) and completed its development.


----------



## Stealth

My Shots

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Right on. My point is there is variett to be had if the PAF decides to get off their behinds.


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IIRC not as much payload capacity when measured at various ranges. But the new AI-28 turbofan engine might help fix that. That said, I don't think the An-178 is any more 'safe' than the C390 as it relies on North American suppliers as well. The C390, at least, uses a lot of civilian off the shelf tech (esp engine) and completed its development.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

C-130 is the most successful non-combat US aircraft of all time with over 2,500 in service. PAF is one of the oldest users. Demand for this is sky high even retired airframes are hard to get. [emoji1042] recently bought 5 C-130J from excess stock of RAF which PAF should’ve tried to get. https://t.co/oWFNJKzrPZ

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fatman17

fatman17 said:


> C-130 is the most successful non-combat US aircraft of all time with over 2,500 in service. PAF is one of the oldest users. Demand for this is sky high even retired airframes are hard to get. [emoji1042] recently bought 5 C-130J from excess stock of RAF which PAF should’ve tried to get. https://t.co/oWFNJKzrPZ
> View attachment 627099


US did not approve NOC for Pakistan

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) So Boeing yesterday ditched Embraer. Heard about it??
Thoughts??

They never will.
We are also probably on hit list Wesley Clark described. They fueled TTP insurgency together with RAW and NDS. It's proof enough for me.


fatman17 said:


> US did not approve NOC for Pakistan


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Ahmet Pasha said:


> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) So Boeing yesterday ditched Embraer. Heard about it??
> Thoughts??


It was an interesting breakdown, largely from the lack of confidence in the airliner market due to COVID.

That said, I don't think it'll have an impact on the PAF. As far as we can see and hear, there's no interest in the C390, though it could make for a good tanker/transport to complement the C-130.

It might make the Embraer E190-E2 a real option for the PN as the basis for its LRMPA project.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

Ahmet Pasha said:


> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) So Boeing yesterday ditched Embraer. Heard about it??
> Thoughts??
> 
> They never will.
> We are also probably on hit list Wesley Clark described. They fueled TTP insurgency together with RAW and NDS. It's proof enough for me.


We were not Gen Clark hitt list. Clark told by someone in Bush administration it was not his theory.


----------



## PAR 5

fatman17 said:


> US did not approve NOC for Pakistan



Exactly! Whilst an 'Idiot' on another similar forum is claiming falsely that PAF has signed a CONTRACT for 9 C130J's and some juve's are cheering without even knowing the ground realities.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Yeah I know dude. He didn't name some that today we know U.S did end up attacking. So yeah he didn't name us bit I think we are on it.


mingle said:


> We were not Gen Clark hitt list. Clark told by someone in Bush administration it was not his theory.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> It was an interesting breakdown, largely from the lack of confidence in the airliner market due to COVID.
> 
> That said, I don't think it'll have an impact on the PAF. As far as we can see and hear, there's no interest in the C390, though it could make for a good tanker/transport to complement the C-130.
> 
> It might make the Embraer E190-E2 a real option for the PN as the basis for its LRMPA project.


We could also have a share in E190 to make it and sell it together. Maybe.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TsAr

PAR 5 said:


> Exactly! Whilst an 'Idiot' on another similar forum is claiming falsely that PAF has signed a CONTRACT for 9 C130J's and some juve's are cheering without even knowing the ground realities.


The person you are referring to is credible and has shared some information that he came to know about. No need to call someone by names.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Blacklight

PAR 5 said:


> Exactly! Whilst an 'Idiot' on another similar forum is claiming falsely that PAF has signed a CONTRACT for 9 C130J's and some juve's are cheering without even knowing the ground realities.


He mentioned the delivery dates as well, a few months down the road, everything will be clear. Why worry?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Scorpiooo

PAR 5 said:


> Exactly! Whilst an 'Idiot' on another similar forum is claiming falsely that PAF has signed a CONTRACT for 9 C130J's and some juve's are cheering without even knowing the ground realities.


He is sharing some info just, if you think is invalid tou can clearly discuss it instead going personal on someome

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mingle

PAR 5 said:


> Exactly! Whilst an 'Idiot' on another similar forum is claiming falsely that PAF has signed a CONTRACT for 9 C130J's and some juve's are cheering without even knowing the ground realities.





PAR 5 said:


> Exactly! Whilst an 'Idiot' on another similar forum is claiming falsely that PAF has signed a CONTRACT for 9 C130J's and some juve's are cheering without even knowing the ground realities.


You saying about VT4? But whole PDF and twitter folks are saying incorrect??
Usman Shabbir and Haris Khan were pinnacle of defence related news but many of theior feed were incorrect as well like T90 M, FC20, new procurements of fighters, a military procurement always have political and financial components these are not small deals worth billions $$ can delay can cancel or politics move in like 36FC20 was done deal announced by PAF dropped later let the things to cool down and see what happens but I believe when ever CSF issue will resolve it will spent on procurement American weapons not gonna come to state Bank of Pak when this happens?? it happens next month fall or winter but I feel summer or early fall But two good factors one standard F16 blk 70 will make it cheap and attractive plus its for Allies, 50 C130 J its bulk order Trump bringing up 2 trillion $$ package he mentioned to IK means he will release this money not favour Pak but also US too. So chill and enjoy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ARMalik

PAR 5 said:


> Exactly! Whilst an 'Idiot' on another similar forum is claiming falsely that PAF has signed a CONTRACT for 9 C130J's and some juve's are cheering without even knowing the ground realities.



He has made a lot of other claims as well. Lets wait and see another 6 to 10 months and see how authentic all of this is.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SD 10

Emrald_Scorpio said:


> He is sharing some info just, if you think is invalid tou can clearly discuss it instead going personal on someome


No need to trade insults............. Wait and see brother!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

SD 10 said:


> No need to trade insults............. Wait and see brother!!!


That my poin . No need to go personal... time will clerify each news

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## airomerix



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Blacklight

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 633871


Brought from where, to where?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Imran Khan

small business jet of PAF ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263794567285006338


----------



## khanasifm

Imran Khan said:


> small business jet of PAF ?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263794567285006338


Using paf aircraft ??


----------



## Reichmarshal

Emergency, wouldn't u say.

He's a PAF serving air marshal, before any thing else.


----------



## fatman17

Pakistani military plane lands at Joint Base Andrews with donation for COVID-19 response
By Airman 1st Class Spencer Slocum 11th Wing Public Affairs

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## aziqbal

Pakistan needs to order 12 x Y-9 modern platform cargo planes 

it would be a great boast to our air lift capability

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## airomerix

Over skies of Fairford, England.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007

aziqbal said:


> Pakistan needs to order 12 x Y-9 modern platform cargo planes
> 
> it would be a great boast to our air lift capability


aur kuch
sath main 10x y-20a be order kar dain.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

Do we see any chance of Y9 or Y20 from china in near future for PAF

Is C390 can be alternative of C130


----------



## Ultima Thule

Scorpiooo said:


> Do we see any chance of Y9 or Y20 from china in near future for PAF
> 
> Is C390 can be alternative of C130


if our economy go up we definitely go for Y-20, or if available best alternative of C-130 is Airbus A400M

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cornered Tiger

Bratva said:


>



Please upload this image again. Thanks.


----------



## Viper27

nomi007 said:


> aur kuch
> sath main 10x y-20a be order kar dain.



Would you like fries with that?


----------



## airomerix

PAF's Il-76 at Baltimore-Washington Thurgood Marshal Airport on May 18th, 2020.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Caprxl

airomerix said:


> PAF's Il-76 at Baltimore-Washington Thurgood Marshal Airport on May 18th, 2020.
> 
> View attachment 637076
> View attachment 637077
> View attachment 637078
> View attachment 637079
> View attachment 637080
> View attachment 637081



Do you have the info what this trip was for ? The things Pakistan sent to USA for combating Covid were transported using C130 if am not wrong.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

IAU said:


> if our economy go up we definitely go for Y-20, or if available best alternative of C-130 is Airbus A400M


Problem with Americans stuff is hard cash which we dont have, but can get Chinese stuff of soft and long term loan. Our c130 are almost 4 to 5 dacades old and are in limited quality. Look at india thay have good numbers of C130, even C17 and Il76 and other plateform which gives then great boots



airomerix said:


> PAF's Il-76 at Baltimore-Washington Thurgood Marshal Airport on May 18th, 2020.
> 
> View attachment 637076
> View attachment 637077
> View attachment 637078
> View attachment 637079
> View attachment 637080
> View attachment 637081


Il 78 not il76 , if i am not wrong


----------



## mingle

Caprxl said:


> Do you have the info what this trip was for ? The things Pakistan sent to USA for combating Covid were transported using C130 if am not wrong.


Probably more COVID efforts even picking up something taking Something along not a bad idea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Caprxl

mingle said:


> Probably more COVID efforts even picking up something taking Something along not a bad idea.



Yeah, maybe, but still am intrigued.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

Caprxl said:


> Yeah, maybe, but still am intrigued.


Picking up parts?? But I hope and feel things will heat up Soon between Pak and US over Arms sales as LM hinted more customers coming Soon for blk 70

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Caprxl

mingle said:


> Picking up parts?? But I hope and feel things will heat up Soon between Pak and US over Arms sales as LM hinted more customers coming Soon for blk 70



Yeah, we do have some pointers in that direction, time will tell. But this IL78 in USA has got my interest. Maybe it turn out to be nothing. Lets see.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

Caprxl said:


> Yeah, we do have some pointers in that direction, time will tell. But this IL78 in USA has got my interest. Maybe it turn out to be nothing. Lets see.


@airomerix knows but he won't tell Us all he did create excitement

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Caprxl

mingle said:


> @airomerix knows but he won't tell Us all he did create excitement



Yes, it seems he is keeping a mum on it 
@Blacklight 
Brother, do you have any idea what PAF IL78 was doing in Baltimore-Washington ? Or we will have to wait a bit until info is cleared for public IF the visit was special.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Caprxl

Blacklight said:


>



Thank you

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bossman

Scorpiooo said:


> Problem with Americans stuff is hard cash which we dont have, but can get Chinese stuff of soft and long term loan. Our c130 are almost 4 to 5 dacades old and are in limited quality. Look at india thay have good numbers of C130, even C17 and Il76 and other plateform which gives then great boots
> 
> 
> Il 78 not il76 , if i am not wrong


IAF already crashed one C130 and destroyed another one in a ground accident.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Blacklight

Caprxl said:


> Thank you


Garmi may pankhay ki zaroorat parti hai

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khail007

airomerix said:


> PAF's Il-76 at Baltimore-Washington Thurgood Marshal Airport on May 18th, 2020.
> 
> View attachment 637076
> View attachment 637077
> View attachment 637078
> View attachment 637079
> View attachment 637080
> View attachment 637081



Sir G, in pic #4 is this a message to US?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

Blacklight said:


> Garmi may pankhay ki zaroorat parti hai


Quite expensive fan for such short trip

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Scorpiooo said:


> Quite expensive fan for such short trip


Milat Fans are always expensive

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## airomerix

*Trivia*

Did you know PAF uses C-130s with Jet Assisted Take Off (JATO) regularly?

It is a standard part of the training in the 'Commander's' course at Transport Conversion School, Chakala.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## SD 10

airomerix said:


> *Trivia*
> 
> Did you know PAF uses C-130s with Jet Assisted Take Off (JATO) regularly?
> 
> It is a standard part of the training in the 'Commander's' course at Transport Conversion School, Chakala.
> 
> View attachment 638990


Brother, How old is paf's c130s? Can they keep on going till 2030s?


----------



## GriffinsRule

New Zealand is to buy 5 new C-130-30Js from the US. They have a fleet of 5 upgraded C-130s they will be selling. Pakistan should look to procure these to build up the fleet from the losses we had over the last few years. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ive-new-super-hercules-aircraft-idUSKBN23C00V

Their current C-130s all have glass cockpits and were extensively upgraded, including life extension as late as 2017. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._40_Squadron_RNZAF
https://www.defence.govt.nz/what-we...nce-capability-projects/c-130-life-extension/

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## airomerix

GriffinsRule said:


> New Zealand is to buy 5 new C-130-30Js from the US. They have a fleet of 5 upgraded C-130s they will be selling. Pakistan should look to procure these to build up the fleet from the losses we had over the last few years.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ive-new-super-hercules-aircraft-idUSKBN23C00V
> 
> Their current C-130s all have glass cockpits and were extensively upgraded, including life extension as late as 2017.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._40_Squadron_RNZAF
> https://www.defence.govt.nz/what-we...nce-capability-projects/c-130-life-extension/




NZ001 (1965 built)
NZ002 (1965 built)
NZ003 (1965 built)
NZ004 (1969 built)
NZ005 (1969 built)

Infact, NZ's C-130H's are world's first ever C-130H models. A comprehensive cost-benefit analysis has to come into play here.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GriffinsRule

airomerix said:


> NZ001 (1965 built)
> NZ002 (1965 built)
> NZ003 (1965 built)
> NZ004 (1969 built)
> NZ005 (1969 built)
> 
> Infact, NZ's C-130H's are world's first ever C-130H models. A comprehensive cost-benefit analysis has to come into play here.


I think ours are from the early 60s as well. You are right, anyone buying them would look at the airframes and remaining life, but that is what I am suggesting. PAF should look at it as a low cost option. They can decide then if its worth it or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

Caprxl said:


> Do you have the info what this trip was for ? The things Pakistan sent to USA for combating Covid were transported using C130 if am not wrong.





mingle said:


> @airomerix knows but he won't tell Us all he did create excitement






Caprxl said:


> Yes, it seems he is keeping a mum on it
> @Blacklight
> Brother, do you have any idea what PAF IL78 was doing in Baltimore-Washington ? Or we will have to wait a bit until info is cleared for public IF the visit was special.



I'll give you gents a hint. This is the BWI airport which also has a huge USAF Air Mobility Command logistics center. The following picture is from the same trip.

Hence, for a fact, it wasn't COVID related. The cargo was strictly 'military'

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## mingle

airomerix said:


> I'll give you gents a hint. This is the BWI airport which also has a huge USAF Air Mobility Command logistics center. The following picture is from the same trip.
> 
> Hence, for a fact, it wasn't COVID related. The cargo was strictly 'military'
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 639147


Is it something related to PAA ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

mingle said:


> Is it something related to PAA ?



F-16 and C-130 related. 

Also, earlier, PAF used Dover AFB for such logistics movement. Now it has been shifted to BWI. There is a PAF's C-130 currently at BWI as we speak.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Scorpiooo

airomerix said:


> I'll give you gents a hint. This is the BWI airport which also has a huge USAF Air Mobility Command logistics center. The following picture is from the same trip.
> 
> Hence, for a fact, it wasn't COVID related. The cargo was strictly 'military'
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 639147


There was news circulating about PAF getting few used and new C130s from CSF

Do you think Il78 presence was to bring C130s ?



airomerix said:


> F-16 and C-130 related.
> 
> Also, earlier, PAF used Dover AFB for such logistics movement. Now it has been shifted to BWI. There is a PAF's C-130 currently at BWI as we speak.


C130 we can understand
But il78 cant refuel F16 at all. So it can't be related to f16 sir ?


----------



## Falcon26

airomerix said:


> F-16 and C-130 related.
> 
> Also, earlier, PAF used Dover AFB for such logistics movement. Now it has been shifted to BWI. There is a PAF's C-130 currently at BWI as we speak.



You should try a career as a suspense writer lol

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Armchair

Rumour has it Pakistan is apparently getting C-130Js Sorry @aeromerix hope I didn't take the cat out of the bag here.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Yasser76

Armchair said:


> Rumour has it Pakistan is apparently getting C-130Js Sorry @aeromerix hope I didn't take the cat out of the bag here.



No, we a definately not.


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Imran Khan

Armchair said:


> Rumour has it Pakistan is apparently getting C-130Js Sorry @aeromerix hope I didn't take the cat out of the bag here.


pakistan wo buy from east not USA .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blacklight

Caprxl said:


> Yes, it seems he is keeping a mum on it
> @Blacklight
> Brother, do you have any idea what PAF IL78 was doing in Baltimore-Washington ? Or we will have to wait a bit until info is cleared for public IF the visit was special.


This week it should be back, IA with Zulu's



Armchair said:


> Rumour has it Pakistan is apparently getting C-130Js Sorry @aeromerix hope I didn't take the cat out of the bag here.


9 of them, all -30 J's. 5 new.

Reactions: Like Like:
16


----------



## Gentelman

Blacklight said:


> Garmi may pankhay ki zaroorat parti hai


I hope we got our fans cleared finally from US.... 
We were in dire need of 'em.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viper27

airomerix said:


> *Trivia*
> 
> Did you know PAF uses C-130s with Jet Assisted Take Off (JATO) regularly?
> 
> It is a standard part of the training in the 'Commander's' course at Transport Conversion School, Chakala.
> 
> View attachment 638990



Do you have any pictures of PAF C-130s with rocket assisted take offs? This one is a US hercules.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Caprxl

airomerix said:


> I'll give you gents a hint. This is the BWI airport which also has a huge USAF Air Mobility Command logistics center. The following picture is from the same trip.
> 
> Hence, for a fact, it wasn't COVID related. The cargo was strictly 'military'
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 639147







Blacklight said:


> This week it should be back, IA with Zulu's
> 
> 
> 9 of them, all -30 J's. 5 new.



AMEN to that

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ali_raza

airomerix said:


> F-16 and C-130 related.
> 
> Also, earlier, PAF used Dover AFB for such logistics movement. Now it has been shifted to BWI. There is a PAF's C-130 currently at BWI as we speak.


@Blacklight hmm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

Blacklight said:


> This week it should be back, IA with Zulu's
> 
> 9 of them, all -30 J's. 5 new.


You mean C130 -30 (5 new and 4 used) ??

Zulus you mean heli 12 which were stored if am not wrong ? Question how Il78 can refuel them or these will be in one C130 sent for corvid iteam ?

@Blacklight

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

Blacklight said:


> This week it should be back, IA with Zulu's
> 
> 
> 9 of them, all -30 J's. 5 new.


dekhy sir baat ye hai hum pehly hi bhut preshan hain corona waghera lock down . oper se bewi bachy ke bagher 3 months se oper ho gay . ap kiyoo humara BP high low kerny per tuly hain ?

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## mingle

Viper27 said:


> Do you have any pictures of PAF C-130s with rocket assisted take offs? This one is a US hercules.


It's Blue Angeles Demo PAF doesn't have any



Imran Khan said:


> dekhy sir baat ye hai hum pehly hi bhut preshan hain corona waghera lock down . oper se bewi bachy ke bagher 3 months se oper ho gay . ap kiyoo humara BP high low kerny per tuly hain ?


App ki frustration ka Hal kia Hai?



Scorpiooo said:


> You mean C130 -30 (5 new and 4 used) ??
> 
> Zulus you mean heli 12 which were stored if am not wrong ? Question how Il78 can refuel them or these will be in one C130 sent for corvid iteam ?
> 
> @Blacklight


I think that what he means?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viper27

mingle said:


> It's Blue Angeles Demo PAF doesn't have any QUOTE]
> 
> I know its Blue Angels. Aero said PAF C-130s do Rocket Assisted Take Offs regularly so I asked for a picture.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blacklight

Scorpiooo said:


> You mean C130 -30 (5 new and 4 used) ??
> 
> Zulus you mean heli 12 which were stored if am not wrong ? Question how Il78 can refuel them or these will be in one C130 sent for corvid iteam ?
> 
> @Blacklight


Zulus = AH-1Z they will be in IL-78. Nothing to do with refueling.

On the C-130's yes.



Imran Khan said:


> dekhy sir baat ye hai hum pehly hi bhut preshan hain corona waghera lock down . oper se bewi bachy ke bagher 3 months se oper ho gay . ap kiyoo humara BP high low kerny per tuly hain ?


Brother, IA good times ahead.

@Armchair Brother, no rumor. Contract signed

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Imran Khan

Blacklight said:


> Zulus = AH-1Z they will be in IL-78. Nothing to do with refueling.
> 
> On the C-130's yes.
> 
> 
> Brother, IA good times ahead.
> 
> @Armchair Brother, no rumor. Contract signed


Sath main 1000 hellfire bhi ???

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Blacklight

Imran Khan said:


> Sath main 1000 hellfire bhi ???


Zulus without Hellfire would be quite useless, dont you think so?

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Scorpiooo

Blacklight said:


> Zulus = AH-1Z they will be in IL-78. Nothing to do with refueling.
> 
> On the C-130's yes.
> 
> 
> Brother, IA good times ahead.
> 
> @Armchair Brother, no rumor. Contract signed


Really good news @Blacklight , is they adjusted in CRF ?

So we will see zulus in pakistani soon IA

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Blacklight

Scorpiooo said:


> Really good news @Blacklight , is they adjusted in CRF ?
> 
> So we will see zulus in pakistani soon IA


You mean CSF? Yes.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Scorpiooo

@Blacklight when we can see first C130j in pakistani, any guess ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blacklight

Scorpiooo said:


> @Blacklight when we can see first C130j in pakistani, any guess ?


A lot before the end of this year IA. Due to Covid + BLM I would rather not give the month.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Scorpiooo

Blacklight said:


> You mean CSF? Yes.


Yes sir , typo error. 
So these will existing order of 12 onces which are stored. Or any additional zulus will also be added aswell ? @Blacklight



Blacklight said:


> A lot before the end of this year IA. Due to Covid + BLM I would rather not give the month.


Good news, hope its materialized

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TsAr

Imran Khan said:


> dekhy sir baat ye hai hum pehly hi bhut preshan hain corona waghera lock down . oper se bewi bachy ke bagher 3 months se oper ho gay . ap kiyoo humara BP high low kerny per tuly hain ?


Shukar karo bhai corona aur biwi sath sath bardasht nai kar rahay

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ziaulislam

will be surprised if nothing is released....USA want to withdraw and wants some intelligence support/eye on Afghanistan.
Trump is smart, he will use the afghan trump card right around election..
nothing is better for votes for declaring military victory ..
this is something he will use...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

So contract has been signed but no notification of sales? I am not buying it.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Scorpiooo

ziaulislam said:


> will be surprised if nothing is released....USA want to withdraw and wants some intelligence support/eye on Afghanistan.
> Trump is smart, he will use the afghan trump card right around election..
> nothing is better for votes for declaring military victory ..
> this is something he will use...



What ever Americans release, will be partial. Thay aleay keep something back with them to blackmail later and play by there terms

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

Scorpiooo said:


> What ever Americans release, will be partial. Thay aleay keep something back with them to blackmail later and play by there terms


of course...currently they are using IMF card..otherwise they would have released these items long ago..now why we end up with IMF..*well we like to print notes and keep high losing entities in service for no reason*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blacklight

ziaulislam said:


> of course...currently they are using IMF card..otherwise they would have released these items long ago..now why we end up with IMF..*well we like to print notes and keep high losing entities in service for no reason*


Brother, by "*high losing entities *" you mean loss making Public Sector Corps / State Owned Enterprises ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khail007

Blacklight said:


> 9 of them, all -30 J's. 5 new.


Sir G, I just celebrated this news with a butter marmalade sandwich and a cup of tea ... .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## airomerix

Falcon26 said:


> You should try a career as a suspense writer lol



I'm practicing already. 



Armchair said:


> Rumour has it Pakistan is apparently getting C-130Js Sorry @aeromerix hope I didn't take the cat out of the bag here.



We have been looking for J's for a long time. But nothing is in the pipeline yet. 



Blacklight said:


> This week it should be back, IA with Zulu's
> 
> 
> 9 of them, all -30 J's. 5 new.



This is news to me and many others in the 6 sqn honestly. The Il-78's trip last month to US was to drop off COVID supplies and bring back F-16 and C-130 sustainment kits. These visits are very frequent as maintenance supply chain inventory is replenished every now and then. Even the current C-130 is there for the same reason. 



Viper27 said:


> Do you have any pictures of PAF C-130s with rocket assisted take offs? This one is a US hercules.



Not yet. It will not be this exciting because we ususally practice with 2+2 JATO's instead of 4+4 as shown in the picture. This is to save on inventory. 



Scorpiooo said:


> You mean C130 -30 (5 new and 4 used) ??
> 
> Zulus you mean heli 12 which were stored if am not wrong ? Question how Il78 can refuel them or these will be in one C130 sent for corvid iteam ?
> 
> @Blacklight



X number of Il-78's are for cargo purposes. They can be converted into refuelers and vice versa in 'some' time. So refueling is not the focus of this discussion.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Blacklight

airomerix said:


> This is news to me and many others in the 6 sqn honestly. The Il-78's trip last month to US was to drop off COVID supplies and bring back F-16 and C-130 sustainment kits. These visits are very frequent as maintenance supply chain inventory is replenished every now and then. Even the current C-130 is there for the same reason.
> .


Contract was signed sometime ago, they will be landing in a few months, and I expect you to be the one breaking the news with some nice pics IA.

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Incog_nito

Is PAF still interested in acquiring used C-130s?

I sometimes think that PAF C-130s (16) should be converted into SIGNIT & Recon planes. Or like a small C4ISTR plane that can assist in the battle situations. These can be very helpful in war and in peace situations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viper27

Blacklight said:


> Contract was signed sometime ago, they will be landing in a few months, and I expect you to be the one breaking the news with some nice pics IA.



Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding of your posts is this: these cargo planes will be landing back with Zulus and the C-130s newly acquired will be coming in a few months? Is that correct understanding?


----------



## Blacklight

Viper27 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding of your posts is this: these cargo planes will be landing back with Zulus and the C-130s newly acquired will be coming in a few months? Is that correct understanding?


The Il-78 stuck in the US - is waiting for Zulus, yes.

Hercs - Used ones, Yes.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Imran Khan

Blacklight said:


> Zulus without Hellfire would be quite useless, dont you think so?


thats what i think too. so my next question 

IL-78 aya nhi abhi tak amreeka se? ita door to nhi hai amreeka  ab tak to a jana chayee tha

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Blacklight said:


> This week it should be back, IA with Zulu's
> 
> 
> 9 of them, all -30 J's. 5 new.


I wish aap F16s new and upgrades ki bhi news sunayein

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Blacklight

Imran Khan said:


> thats what i think too. so my next question
> 
> IL-78 aya nhi abhi tak amreeka se? ita door to nhi hai amreeka  ab tak to a jana chayee tha



No still waiting, IA this week.



Pakistani Fighter said:


> I wish aap F16s new and upgrades ki bhi news sunayein


Things are fluid. Once final, and if possible I will IA.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Imran Khan

Blacklight said:


> No still waiting, IA this week.
> 
> 
> Things are fluid. Once final, and if possible I will IA.


just tag me sir once its arrived . i was hopeless for ZULUs

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

Imran Khan said:


> just tag me sir once its arrived . i was hopeless for ZULUs


Honta chaye app ko?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

mingle said:


> Honta chaye app ko?


honda ??????????

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Imran Khan said:


> honda ??????????


Jhola I mean

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nomad40

airomerix said:


> I'll give you gents a hint. This is the BWI airport which also has a huge USAF Air Mobility Command logistics center. The following picture is from the same trip.
> 
> Hence, for a fact, it wasn't COVID related. The cargo was strictly 'military'
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 639147


just brought in Ah-1z in PAA colors

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Metal 0-1

khail007 said:


> Sir G, in pic #4 is this a message to US?



Just a reminder that this particular Midas leads the formation during 23rd March Parade


----------



## Trailer23

Look, if the C-130's don't come through - lets just ask the Chinese if they'd be willing to make an exception of selling some of these beauties.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Trailer23 said:


> Look, if the C-130's don't come through - lets just ask the Chinese if they'd be willing to make an exception of selling some of these beauties.


Even having C130 PAF should look into them about 10 of them will be great.


----------



## emotionless_teenage

Trailer23 said:


> Look, if the C-130's don't come through - lets just ask the Chinese if they'd be willing to make an exception of selling some of these beauties.



It's not even the same class as C-130


----------



## Trailer23

emotionless_teenage said:


> It's not even the same class as C-130


When you make a statement like that, you need to clarify by which optics are you looking at.

When you say it isn't in the same Class as the C-130, do you mean:

C-130 is a Legend and can't be replaced by a Chinese Transport.
The Y-20 is a different type of Transport which should be compared with the C-17 Globemaster III.

Either way, if the PAF isn't able to acquire and/or replace its existing C-130's, then, now or down the road need to find a suitable replacement. Money is an issue, right now. It'll be there 3 Years from now and it'll be there 5-10 Years later too. Lets not talk about CSF. Lets not talk about finance from a certain Arab Country. Pakistan, the Nation is so in debt that it'll take a lifetime to get out of that ditch that we've been left in (-courtesy of past crooks).

The Y-20 is a pretty decent Transport a/c which is also looking to become a Refueler. Atleast we need not worry about parts and upgrades with our Chinese counterparts.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Thorough Pro

Do you really think they (Heli's) will fly all the way to Pakistan over Atlantic?
IL78 carries them in its belly.




Scorpiooo said:


> Question how Il78 can refuel them or these will be in one C130 sent for corvid iteam ?
> 
> @Blacklight


----------



## Bossman

Incog_nito said:


> Is PAF still interested in acquiring used C-130s?
> 
> I sometimes think that PAF C-130s (16) should be converted into SIGNIT & Recon planes. Or like a small C4ISTR plane that can assist in the battle situations. These can be very helpful in war and in peace situations.


One to them is a Sigint plane. The one with extra antennas.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nomad40

Scorpiooo said:


> You mean C130 -30 (5 new and 4 used) ??
> 
> Zulus you mean heli 12 which were stored if am not wrong ? Question how Il78 can refuel them or these will be in one C130 sent for corvid iteam ?
> 
> @Blacklight


Cargo air craft are used to transport air craft of short ranges over long distances------aircraft are some what dismantled and strapped in the belly of the transport air craft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Saab-2000/2741

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Yasser76

air marshal said:


> https://falcons.pk/photo/Saab-2000/2741



Very smart. I think these are one of the SAAB 2000's PAF will use as dual transport and for training Erieye crews thus saving airframe hours on Erieye SAAB 2000s

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Saab-2000/2742

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Scorpiooo

air marshal said:


> https://falcons.pk/photo/Saab-2000/2742


So how many active saab 2000 we have till now including AWACS , Vip and training role

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistan Ka Beta

Blacklight said:


> No still waiting, IA this week.
> 
> 
> Things are fluid. Once final, and if possible I will IA.


Any updates ??? So Rumors were right ???

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Aircraft familiarity can be done but actually flying one with a huge external load on top of the fuselage has another feel for the pilot specially when taking off and landing in cross winds.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tipu7

PAF Casa 235...

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2739

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tamiyah

Apparently the new transport oriented squadron "Markhors" consist of CASA-235. Yup, our casa-235 now have their own squadron. PAF have four of them presently. I remember that @Blacklight said that "new" C130J were being purchased to make up this squadron. Would request senior members to shed light on this topic and also I want to know if PAF have plans to purchase more CASA-235.


Tipu7 said:


> PAF Casa 235...
> 
> View attachment 643525
> View attachment 643526

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Armchair

USAF has been trying to get rid of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alenia_C-27J_Spartan
Would be the easiest thing to convince them to hand over as EDA.

A little info: USAF don't want to operate these but periodically gets put under pressure by the US Army to get them. Last, SOCOM took over some of these. But confused exactly under whom these would be operated - most likely by USAF pilots seconded to SOCOM.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tamiyah

Armchair said:


> USAF is trying to get rid of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alenia_C-27J_Spartan
> Would be the easiest thing to convince them to hand over as EDA.


But I don't think PAF ever showed interest in them also wouldn't it better to buy used C130 rather than convince them for these. BTW What's benefit do it brings to PAF?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Armchair

Tamiyah said:


> But I don't think PAF ever showed interest in them also wouldn't it better to buy used C130 rather than convince them for these. BTW What's benefit do it brings to PAF?



Its a transport aircraft. It's low cost. It fits perfectly with the short distances and what PAF will use transport aircraft most for - transferring equipment from airbase to airbase. It has relatively good STOL equipment. 

Most importantly, can be had with EDA. Use up that EDA before Trump's term ends.


----------



## Viper27

Armchair said:


> USAF has been trying to get rid of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alenia_C-27J_Spartan
> Would be the easiest thing to convince them to hand over as EDA.
> 
> A little info: USAF don't want to operate these but periodically gets put under pressure by the US Army to get them. Last, SOCOM took over some of these. But confused exactly under whom these would be operated - most likely by USAF pilots seconded to SOCOM.



Many of the Spartans are in the boneyard because Congress forced to produce planes that were not needed. They were not needed because in the long run a C-130 is much cheaper to operate than a C-27J.

"Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz testified before Congress last year that the military wanted to divest its C-27J fleet to come in line with budget cuts. He said the C-130 can do everything currently asked for and costs $213 million to fly over its 25-year lifespan. The C-27J, on the other hand, would cost $308 million per aircraft."

https://defense-update.com/20131007_spartans_in_the_boneyard.html

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tipu7

Tamiyah said:


> Apparently the new transport oriented squadron "Markhors" consist of CASA-235. Yup, our casa-235 now have their own squadron. PAF have four of them presently. I remember that @Blacklight said that "new" C130J were being purchased to make up this squadron. Would request senior members to shed light on this topic and also I want to know if PAF have plans to purchase more CASA-235.


The plan for third C130 based squadron is separate and is not associated with CN235.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/CASA-CN-235M-200/2748

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Armchair said:


> USAF has been trying to get rid of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alenia_C-27J_Spartan
> Would be the easiest thing to convince them to hand over as EDA.
> 
> A little info: USAF don't want to operate these but periodically gets put under pressure by the US Army to get them. Last, SOCOM took over some of these. But confused exactly under whom these would be operated - most likely by USAF pilots seconded to SOCOM.


they are scrap will be scrap and remain scrap sir . cant you see those whom got them from USA now parked for nothing ? better got 2 c-130s rather then 10 c-27s

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Armchair

Imran Khan said:


> they are scrap will be scrap and remain scrap sir . cant you see those whom got them from USA now parked for nothing ? better got 2 c-130s rather then 10 c-27s



I am unaware that they are parked for nothing by other states. The US has parked them but this is mainly because the USAF wants to standardize its fleet and operating these smaller transports is less cost effective for it. Just like operating a regional jet is less cost effective per seat than an A320. Doesn't mean that the regional jet is rubbish. It has fewer seats, and for fewer passengers, its more efficient than the A320. 

How to explain it better...



Armchair said:


> I am unaware that they are parked for nothing by other states. The US has parked them but this is mainly because the USAF wants to standardize its fleet and operating these smaller transports is less cost effective for it. Just like operating a regional jet is less cost effective per seat than an A320. Doesn't mean that the regional jet is rubbish. It has fewer seats, and for fewer passengers, its more efficient than the A320.
> 
> How to explain it better...



The sticking point for the C-130J is that the US doesn't want to give a strategic lift capability to Pakistan. fair enough, the C-27J is essentially a smaller C-130. It uses the same engines as the C-130J, instead of 4 of them, they use 2. 

C-130H:
Capacity: 19000 kg

C-27J:
Capacity: 11,600 kg

check out the large number of countries using this. Again, to emphasize, they use the same RR engines as the C-130J. 2 engines are always cheaper to maintain than 4.

Did I miss mentioning that they are sitting in the boneyard and available for free with EDA and CSF? That their airframes have tremendous life left as do their engines?


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

It's not completely outlandish. Doable with right mindset I think.


Armchair said:


> I am unaware that they are parked for nothing by other states. The US has parked them but this is mainly because the USAF wants to standardize its fleet and operating these smaller transports is less cost effective for it. Just like operating a regional jet is less cost effective per seat than an A320. Doesn't mean that the regional jet is rubbish. It has fewer seats, and for fewer passengers, its more efficient than the A320.
> 
> How to explain it better...
> 
> 
> 
> The sticking point for the C-130J is that the US doesn't want to give a strategic lift capability to Pakistan. fair enough, the C-27J is essentially a smaller C-130. It uses the same engines as the C-130J, instead of 4 of them, they use 2.
> 
> C-130H:
> Capacity: 19000 kg
> 
> C-27J:
> Capacity: 11,600 kg
> 
> check out the large number of countries using this. Again, to emphasize, they use the same RR engines as the C-130J. 2 engines are always cheaper to maintain than 4.
> 
> Did I miss mentioning that they are sitting in the boneyard and available for free with EDA and CSF? That their airframes have tremendous life left as do their engines?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Armchair said:


> I am unaware that they are parked for nothing by other states. The US has parked them but this is mainly because the USAF wants to standardize its fleet and operating these smaller transports is less cost effective for it. Just like operating a regional jet is less cost effective per seat than an A320. Doesn't mean that the regional jet is rubbish. It has fewer seats, and for fewer passengers, its more efficient than the A320.
> 
> How to explain it better...
> 
> 
> 
> The sticking point for the C-130J is that the US doesn't want to give a strategic lift capability to Pakistan. fair enough, the C-27J is essentially a smaller C-130. It uses the same engines as the C-130J, instead of 4 of them, they use 2.
> 
> C-130H:
> Capacity: 19000 kg
> 
> C-27J:
> Capacity: 11,600 kg
> 
> check out the large number of countries using this. Again, to emphasize, they use the same RR engines as the C-130J. 2 engines are always cheaper to maintain than 4.
> 
> Did I miss mentioning that they are sitting in the boneyard and available for free with EDA and CSF? That their airframes have tremendous life left as do their engines?


Italy dont want them and USA took from italy send them afghanistan . 20 of them rusting some 200km from pakistan now not in use .


----------



## Armchair

Imran Khan said:


> Italy dont want them and USA took from italy send them afghanistan . 20 of them rusting some 200km from pakistan now not in use .



There are a bunch of non-rusted, with low hours ones in AMARC or the Boneyard.


----------



## Imran Khan

Armchair said:


> There are a bunch of non-rusted, with low hours ones in AMARC or the Boneyard.


if they are so sweet BD can take them sir we have already CN-235 for that role

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Armchair

Imran Khan said:


> if they are so sweet BD can take them sir we have already CN-235 for that role



If you can tell Uncle to give them to us for free  We don't get any CSF...


----------



## Imran Khan

Armchair said:


> If you can tell Uncle to give them to us for free  We don't get any CSF...


once upon a time there were USAF base in east pakistan . if bangladesh follow same steps CSF door can be opened .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Armchair

Imran Khan said:


> once upon a time there were USAF base in east pakistan . if bangladesh follow same steps CSF door can be opened .



They have us by our balls, they don't need to give us CSF anymore. :'(

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Readerdefence

Armchair said:


> They have us by our balls, they don't need to give us CSF anymore. :'(


Hi at a lighter note sir at the moment you don’t have any balls if you know what I mean 
Thank you

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

Armchair said:


> They have us by our balls, they don't need to give us CSF anymore. :'(


Look towards China, they are making new friends who all agree to pin India to submission.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Thorough Pro

All rumours. No money in the kitty, all shops closed due to corona




Tamiyah said:


> Apparently the new transport oriented squadron "Markhors" consist of CASA-235. Yup, our casa-235 now have their own squadron. PAF have four of them presently. I remember that @Blacklight said that "new" C130J were being purchased to make up this squadron. Would request senior members to shed light on this topic and also I want to know if PAF have plans to purchase more CASA-235.


----------



## Yasser76

Aamir Hussain said:


> Aircraft familiarity can be done but actually flying one with a huge external load on top of the fuselage has another feel for the pilot specially when taking off and landing in cross winds.



Sure, but will still save many hours in terms of familiarity and conversion, obviously trainee pilots will still need the real thing. Also added bonus of being able to move light loads of men and equipment, saving use of CN-235 and C-130

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2765

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Yasser76 said:


> Sure, but will still save many hours in terms of familiarity and conversion, obviously trainee pilots will still need the real thing. Also added bonus of being able to move light loads of men and equipment, saving use of CN-235 and C-130



Sure you are right


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Ilyushin-IL-78MP-Midas/2768

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Incog_nito

Do you think PAF is open to expanding its IL-76 fleet?

I think PAF has the capacity (though not funds) to expand the fleet of IL-76 to 12 to 15.


----------



## Yasser76

Incog_nito said:


> Do you think PAF is open to expanding its IL-76 fleet?
> 
> I think PAF has the capacity (though not funds) to expand the fleet of IL-76 to 12 to 15.



Doubt it, it's a unpopular plane in PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

Yasser76 said:


> Doubt it, it's a unpopular plane in PAF


So, why PAF is going to pay $30 million for upgrade?


----------



## Yasser76

Incog_nito said:


> So, why PAF is going to pay $30 million for upgrade?



Need to keep current 4 flying, but speaks volumes that when we now have over 100 Mirages and JF-17s plugged for air t air refuelling we never ordered more IL-176s.

Engines are a pain to maintain, and guzzle a lot of fuel



Yasser76 said:


> Need to keep current 4 flying, but speaks volumes that when we now have over 100 Mirages and JF-17s plugged for air t air refuelling we never ordered more IL-176s.
> 
> Engines are a pain to maintain, and guzzle a lot of fuel



Also $30 million for 4 planes to get upgraded is peanuts

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ali_Baba

I think PAF will wait for the Y20 to mature, before considering that option. The Engines are still a problem on the Y20 ( similar to the current IL-176s ) so until they get a better turbofan, it will not meet Pakistans needs.


----------



## Viper27

I read the Ukranians were upgrading theirs with new engines. Could engine replacement solve the fuel consumption problem?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

Yasser76 said:


> Need to keep current 4 flying, but speaks volumes that when we now have over 100 Mirages and JF-17s plugged for air t air refuelling we never ordered more IL-176s.
> 
> Engines are a pain to maintain, and guzzle a lot of fuel
> 
> 
> 
> Also $30 million for 4 planes to get upgraded is peanuts



It's for the upgrade of only 2 IL-76s not 4.

Moreover, A330 MMRT is fairly a good option if it can be bought with some monetary support from Banks.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Incog_nito said:


> It's for the upgrade of only 2 IL-76s not 4.
> 
> Moreover, A330 MMRT is fairly a good option if it can be bought with some monetary support from Banks.


*صدقے اوے شیرا*
*دل خوش کردیتا ہی*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Ilyushin-Il-78MP-Midas/766

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2784

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130-Hercules/1267

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

Imran Khan said:


> they are scrap will be scrap and remain scrap sir . cant you see those whom got them from USA now parked for nothing ? better got 2 c-130s rather then 10 c-27s


you do know why Afghanistan scrapped them yes?
they would sell are the spare parts in "kabaree bazaar" for scraps..
hell even lending gears were stolen and sold for scraps 

however its a moot point, why indcut another plateform


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Yasser76 said:


> Need to keep current 4 flying, but speaks volumes that when we now have over 100 Mirages and JF-17s plugged for air t air refuelling we never ordered more IL-176s.
> 
> Engines are a pain to maintain, and guzzle a lot of fuel
> 
> 
> 
> Also $30 million for 4 planes to get upgraded is peanuts


I think the report of the PN choosing the Lineage 1000 for the LRMPA could be a way for Embraer to pitch the C-390 to the PAF. I think the C-390 is a solid complement to the C-130: it can handle AAR, but also manage non-rugged transport duties (leaving the C-130s to focus on hot-and-high). Plus $200 m per unit with a 12-year support package is a pretty good price.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Imran Khan

ziaulislam said:


> you do know why Afghanistan scrapped them yes?
> they would sell are the spare parts in "kabaree bazaar" for scraps..
> hell even lending gears were stolen and sold for scraps
> 
> however its a moot point, why indcut another plateform


They are grounded in us and other countries too.


----------



## Yasser76

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I think the report of the PN choosing the Lineage 1000 for the LRMPA could be a way for Embraer to pitch the C-390 to the PAF. I think the C-390 is a solid complement to the C-130: it can handle AAR, but also manage non-rugged transport duties (leaving the C-130s to focus on hot-and-high). Plus $200 m per unit with a 12-year support package is a pretty good price.



Agreed, C-390 seems to offer the economy of an airliner with some decent transport and refuelling capability, for topping up fighters on CAP or about to fly into India it is perfect, we do not need anything with range, volume or weight in A330/767 class. Again only issue is lack of boom will leave the F-16s thirsty, but as they get older and older seems like a waste to buy a boom equipped tanker now as when it enters service F-16s will be out a few years later, possibly 2030

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130-Hercules/1112

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Harbin-Y-12-II/2810

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Harbin-Y-12-II/2811

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130B-Hercules/2832

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130-Hercules/1267

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Saab-2000/2830

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Cessna-560XL-Citation-Excel/2835

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130-Hercules/730

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LKJ86

Via @zhangmx969 from Weibo

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Cessna-560XL-Citation-Excel/2839

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

https://www.falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/1182


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## niaz

Yasser76 said:


> Agreed, C-390 seems to offer the economy of an airliner with some decent transport and refuelling capability, for topping up fighters on CAP or about to fly into India it is perfect, we do not need anything with range, volume or weight in A330/767 class. Again only issue is lack of boom will leave the F-16s thirsty, but as they get older and older seems like a waste to buy a boom equipped tanker now as when it enters service F-16s will be out a few years later, possibly 2030



Hon Sir,

Undoubtedly C390 is an excellent cargo plane. It is faster and more economic than the C-130 models currently in the PAF. However, did you consider its cost? C390 unit cost was $50-million in 2016 dollars. 
(https://www.aircraftcompare.com/aircraft/embraer-kc-390/). 

Once you add on training & induction costs of a brand new aircraft, IMO its addition would be very onerous on the Defense budget. Pakistan is not a very large country nor does she have overseas logistic commitments that we must have an expensive modern jet transport fleet. C-130 is probably the best rugged medium transport plane ever built and refurbished second-hand C-130 E & H models are available at a fraction of the cost of the brand new C390. 

Given the dire FE situation of Pakistan, I would rather go for the additional used C-130's despite it being American if needed and utilize the precious FE to upgrade the aging PAF fighter fleet. I read some time ago that AIRBUS was developing a modified version of A-320 for use as intelligence gathering, surveillance, reconnaissance as well as a military transport.
(https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/new...aluates-an-A320neo-multi-mission-version.html).

Should PAF decide on a jet-powered transport fleet, I would opt for the refurbished & modified A-320s. Since PIA already has a large A-320 fleet, its induction in the PAF would be far more economical.


----------



## air marshal

https://www.falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2874


----------



## air marshal

https://www.falcons.pk/photo/Ilyushin-IL-78MP-Midas/2878

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## air marshal

https://www.falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/1936

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Incog_nito

air marshal said:


> https://www.falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/1936




PAF has about 18 C-130s and it's really good that PAF is ordering about 5 new C-130J-30s and I hope that this order will going to have a follow-up order of another 7 C-130J-30s too.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Pakistan_Air_Force_aircraft

Why not PAF convert this C-130 (old) into something that can help PAF in air, like:


6 C-130s into AEW&Cs with new AESA
6 C-130s into ELINT/SIGNIT
6 C-130s into C4ISTR & UCAVs Command Centre in Air
And it's not that the US will not allow us to get them upgraded as now we are paying for everything to them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

air marshal said:


> https://www.falcons.pk/photo/Ilyushin-IL-78MP-Midas/2878



They look better as cargo transport not as refuellers.

PAF should look into the options of MMRTs like A-330s and other options.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GriffinsRule

Future Overhauls for our tankers per AFM:

Pakistani Il-78 Ukrainian state company Ukrspecexport has secured a contract worth more than US$30m to overhaul and upgrade a Pakistan Air Force Il-78MP Midas aerial refuelling tanker, with options to work on two more. Work will be completed at the Nikolaev Aircraft Repair Plant. A previous Il-78MP was overhauled in Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2924

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bossman

Incog_nito said:


> PAF has about 18 C-130s and it's really good that PAF is ordering about 5 new C-130J-30s and I hope that this order will going to have a follow-up order of another 7 C-130J-30s too.
> 
> Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Pakistan_Air_Force_aircraft
> 
> Why not PAF convert this C-130 (old) into something that can help PAF in air, like:
> 
> 
> 6 C-130s into AEW&Cs with new AESA
> 6 C-130s into ELINT/SIGNIT
> 6 C-130s into C4ISTR & UCAVs Command Centre in Air
> And it's not that the US will not allow us to get them upgraded as now we are paying for everything to them.


Thank you for your insightful recommendations.you have been recommended for Promotion to CAS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/CASA-CN-235M-200/2936

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Imran Khan

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 661306


its PIA registration AP-AUG is still there PIA was give it to PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## nomi007

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 661306


Name of aircraft?


----------



## Yasser76

nomi007 said:


> Name of aircraft?


CN-235, always surprised me why we never ordered more, very versatile aircraft and saves us using C-130s for light loads

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tamiyah

Yasser76 said:


> CN-235, always surprised me why we never ordered more, very versatile aircraft and saves us using C-130s for light loads


It fulfills it job. PAF always wanted a minimal number of these because of low demand.


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

ghazi52 said:


>


when was the squadron the raised? if it is a real squadron that is


----------



## khail007

nomi007 said:


> Name of aircraft?



*Registration:* AP-AUG

*Certificate of Registration Number:* 382

*Registration Date:* January 1967

*Operator/Owner:* Pakistan International Airlines (PIA)

*Aircraft Type:* Hawker Siddeley HS.121 Trident IE-103

*Construction Number:* 2133

*Line Number:* 

*Year Built:* 1966

*SelCal Code:* 

*First Flight:* August 24, 1966

*Test Flight Registration:* 

*Delivery Date:* February 14, 1967

*Aircraft Name:* 

*Previous Registration:* 

*Previous Operator:* 

*Fate:* Sold to China in 1970

*Next Registration:* 

*Next Operator:* 

*Additional Remarks:* Construction number 2133. Registered in Pakistan as AP-AUG for President of Pakistan VIP flights. First flight on August 24, 1966. AP-AUG in PIA livery took part in Farnborough Airshow, United Kingdom (UK), held in 1966 from September 5 to 11. Aircraft painted in Pakistan Air Force (PAF) markings at factory. Change in Pakistan Government decision. Aircraft eventually repainted and delivered to PIA on February 14, 1967, as AP-AUG in PIA livery. Registration AP-AUG removed from Pakistan Aircraft Register on August 7, 1970. Aircraft to People's Republic of China (PRC) under barter trade with Pakistan, June 1970. Served China as Chinese Air Force One with serial number 238, serial number 50152. Leased out to China United Airlines, June 1990. After retirement it was put on display in Beijing, sporting People's Republic of China (PRC) registration B-2207.

*Photo:* 







*Hawker Siddeley HS.121 Trident IE-103 (Abbas Ali Collection)*


Hawker Siddeley HS.121 Trident IE-103 (registration AP-AUG)

https://aparm.net/ap-aaa_ap-azz/ap-aua_ap-auz/ap-aug.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Yasser76 said:


> CN-235, always surprised me why we never ordered more, very versatile aircraft and saves us using C-130s for light loads


Are you druck? I ask just name. it's not CN-235.


----------



## Yasser76

nomi007 said:


> Are you druck? I ask just name. it's not CN-235.



Before insulting others learn correct grammar.


----------



## nomi007

Yasser76 said:


> Before insulting others learn correct grammar.


I just ask the name of *Hawker Siddeley HS.121 Trident.*
what was wrong, check your reply.


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ghazi52

PIA used C-130

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## FCPX

ghazi52 said:


> PIA used C-130
> 
> View attachment 664589
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 664590



Were these the L100's?


----------



## ghazi52

FCPX said:


> Were these the L100's?



Yes.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## nomi007

RPAF's Dakota DC-3 - a godsend for the beleaguered Gilgit-Baltistan during the Kashmir War.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ghazi52

*DOUGLAS DC-3 DAKOTA*

*(1947-1955)*​

The Douglas DC-3 is an American fixed wing, propeller driven aircraft whose speed and range revolutionized air transport in the 1930s and 1940s. Because of its lasting impact on the airliner industry and World War II it is generally regarded as one of the most significant transport aircraft ever made. Many DC-3s are still used to this day in all parts of the world. The aircraft's legendary ruggedness is enshrined in the light hearted description of the DC-3 as "a collection of parts flying in loose formation."


Transferred to Pakistan on formation of the Royal Pakistan Air Force (14 August 1947). Used to start the crucial valley flights; to Pakistani Outposts in Azad Kashmir.32 aircraft were in service; eventually retired in 1955 from Pakistan Air Force service.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ghazi52

*Ilyushin Il-78MP Midas*

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

ghazi52 said:


> PIA used C-130
> 
> View attachment 664589
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 664590





FCPX said:


> Were these the L100's?


AP-AUT is still active as 4144. Most recently was seen sporting the Zarb-e-Azb paint scheme in RIAT '16.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tair-Lahoti



Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
2


----------



## Figaro

I'm curious as to the PAF's transport capabilities, which are seldom mentioned relative to flashier fighter systems. On Wiki, it seems that the PAF transport fleet is somewhat limited, based most around the C-130. Is Pakistan planning on enlarging this fleet in the future? I think the PAF should definitely look into purchasing a couple Y-20s from China ... they would be huge upgrades to the transport capacity.


----------



## Clairvoyant

Figaro said:


> I'm curious as to the PAF's transport capabilities, which are seldom mentioned relative to flashier fighter systems. On Wiki, it seems that the PAF transport fleet is somewhat limited, based most around the C-130. Is Pakistan planning on enlarging this fleet in the future? I think the PAF should definitely look into purchasing a couple Y-20s from China ... they would be huge upgrades to the transport capacity.




They are interested in used Belgian C.130's but for the time being Uncle Sam isn't keen enough on letting the sale pass through.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Figaro said:


> I'm curious as to the PAF's transport capabilities, which are seldom mentioned relative to flashier fighter systems. On Wiki, it seems that the PAF transport fleet is somewhat limited, based most around the C-130. Is Pakistan planning on enlarging this fleet in the future? I think the PAF should definitely look into purchasing a couple Y-20s from China ... they would be huge upgrades to the transport capacity.


They've tried expanding the C-130 fleet via 2nd hand aircraft, but the US kept on blocking our efforts (as noted by @Clairvoyant ). There may have been a chance back in 2016 to use Obama's FMF release for new C-130Js instead of the 8 F-16s -- Congress might have been OK with that transfer on the basis of HADR. But even HADR doesn't fly, e.g., Pakistan tried picking up a bunch of EDA CH-47s and UH-60s on that basis, and got told to get lost. 

IMO ... the Hercs will stay until the day the PAF can afford/access new Hercs (be it C-130J or LM-100J). That said, the IL-78s aren't efficient, yet they fill a key role as a tanker and heavy transport. But the Y-20 could be a suitable successor provided it offers improved efficiency over the IL-78 -- and if China offers it.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Metal 0-1

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> They've tried expanding the C-130 fleet via 2nd hand aircraft, but the US kept on blocking our efforts (as noted by @Clairvoyant ). There may have been a chance back in 2016 to use Obama's FMF release for new C-130Js instead of the 8 F-16s -- Congress might have been OK with that transfer on the basis of HADR. But even HADR doesn't fly, e.g., Pakistan tried picking up a bunch of EDA CH-47s and UH-60s on that basis, and got told to get lost.
> 
> IMO ... the Hercs will stay until the day the PAF can afford/access new Hercs (be it C-130J or LM-100J). That said, the IL-78s aren't efficient, yet they fill a key role as a tanker and heavy transport. But the Y-20 could be a suitable successor provided it offers improved efficiency over the IL-78 -- and if China offers it.


What happened to C-130Js people claimed we are getting.


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Metal 0-1 said:


> What happened to C-130Js people claimed we are getting.


are those same people gonna pay for it?


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> a bunch of EDA CH-47s and UH-60s


and how many would that be


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

CT-9914 "Snoop" said:


> and how many would that be


6 CH-47Ds for the PAA and 6-8 UH-60s for the PN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> 6 CH-47Ds for the PAA and 6-8 UH-60s for the PN.


US also retiring her AH64 Ds


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

mingle said:


> US also retiring her AH64 Ds


IMO ... if the PAA pursues a 9-10-ton heavyweight attack helicopter, it'll either be Chinese or Turkish.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mingle

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMO ... if the PAA pursues a 9-10-ton heavyweight attack helicopter, it'll either be Chinese or Turkish.


Chinese are in town I think you talking about ATAK 2?


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

mingle said:


> Chinese are in town I think you talking about ATAK 2?


I'm not referring to Z-10ME (that's a 6-7-ton helicopter). If the PAA wants a 9-10-ton type, it'll either be ATAK-2 or whatever the Chinese develop using the Z-20's technology. I'm sure the Chinese will have their own Apache-like attack helicopter.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


----------



## fatman17

That may be a long term ambition, right now the conundrum is " wait for the Zulus and T129s or order the Z10ME


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I'm not referring to Z-10ME (that's a 6-7-ton helicopter). If the PAA wants a 9-10-ton type, it'll either be ATAK-2 or whatever the Chinese develop using the Z-20's technology. I'm sure the Chinese will have their own Apache-like attack helicopter.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

fatman17 said:


> That may be a long term ambition, right now the conundrum is " wait for the Zulus and T129s or order the Z10ME
> View attachment 669014


Let's wait for the official as @Tipu7 mentioned


----------



## Figaro

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I'm not referring to Z-10ME (that's a 6-7-ton helicopter). If the PAA wants a 9-10-ton type, it'll either be ATAK-2 or whatever the Chinese develop using the Z-20's technology. I'm sure the Chinese will have their own Apache-like attack helicopter.


I saw yesterday that the Chinese Apache-style heavy attack helicopter is coming out very soon on the Chinese section. It will be very interesting to see how it looks like. A heavy attack helicopter is long overdue for them, especially since the technology has been there the entire time.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fatman17

Lol.


mingle said:


> Let's wait for the official as @Tipu7 mentioned


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
2


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

History of No 6 Squadron (the oldest Squadron of Pakistan Air Force) explained in one picture

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

Hercules Takes The Lead.

No 35 Wing In Front Of C-130, Leader Zahid Butt 14th From Left, 1965.

In early and middle August the infiltration of Mujahids had inflamed an already smouldering situation in occupied Kashmir, and the Indian forces of occupation had reacted sharply. On 15 August they reoccupied Kargil, on the Pak side of the cease fire line, which they had vacated earlier, and immediately took energetic steps to plug the gaps along the line to prevent the Mujahids from slipping into and exiting freely from Occupied Kashmir. As anticipated by the PAF, requests for the air dropping of supplies began to roll in, and soon became desperate. 

The PAF's C-130 ('Hercules') wing had planned meticulously for its task, and was all set to go; but in view of the President's lack of enthusiasm for taking the risk of a C-130 wreckage being found in Indian held Kashmir, the C-in-C was constrained to hold them back. Finally, however, when the demands became very desperate indeed, the President agreed to let the PAF go ahead with the drops, but only if there was absolutely no doubt that they would succeed.

It is difficult to exaggerate the true extent of the hazard confronting the C-130 crew in this situation. Staggering along just above the stall, in the blackness of the snowstorm on a moonless night, in a heavily loaded transport surrounded in close proximity by mountains towering 3,000 ft or more above them, the crew were dependent for their survival on a combination of flying skill and a tenuous radar picture. But their sole link with the ground was liable to vanish without warning should a gust cause the gyro limits of the radar to be exceeded during the turns that had to be made to avoid the precipitous rocks.

PAF drop missions enabled the embattled troops as well as large numbers of Mujahidins to survive. Another dividend also followed in their wake: when news spread that the PAF's transport crews had performed seemingly impossible tasks, the morale of other PAF personnel received a solid boost, and served as an added inducement in ensuring that every one would give of their best when their turn came. The transport wing thus set the tone of PAF operations for the war which was to follow, and reinforced the confidence of others that they too would accomplish any task, however difficult it may seem.

The Mujahids affair had provided India with immediate grounds for enlarging the conflict, and she lost no time. After their earlier success in Kargil and other points along the cease fire line, the Indian forces had launched a well planned military offensive which had won them the occupation of a number of positions in the Titwal and Poonch sectors, including the strategically important Haji Pir Pass. On 25 August, the Indian Army had shelled Awan Sharif, a village inside the frontiers of West Pakistan, near Sialkot. This should have been yet another warning of the volcanic nature of the developments in Kashmir, but the leaders of Pakistan remained sanguine about the eventual outcome.

The PAF leadership, however, was dead serious and, commensurate with the tempo of developments in Kashmir, the second phase of the war readiness plan was ordered on 29 August 65. During this phase the PAF was required to achieve the highest air defence status whilst assuring a limited capability for offensive action. This involved full dispersal, camouflage and concealment measures at PAF bases, the deployment of ack ack guns for the defence of operational bases, and the initiation of ground defence schemes to counter a possible commando threat. Critical items of stores were redistributed and, to make up for the shortage of fuel storage facilities, stations were instructed to keep the available fuel tanks fully topped up at all times.

All arrangements were completed for alternative sources of supply should the main source be denied in war. The last action of this series was the activation of the Gin-C's Air Operations Headquarters, with all necessary communications, 'somewhere in Pakistan', on the evening of 31 August 65, to command and control the operational activities of the PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## denel

air marshal said:


>


CN235 beauty of a plane. spent a few stints in it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PDF

Suspected IAF random activity on 27/09/2020 at 5pm pst.


----------



## PDF

2 suspected IAF flights destined for Pune, India at 17 11 hrs pst.


----------



## HRK

PDF said:


> View attachment 673837
> 
> 
> Suspected IAF random activity on 27/09/2020 at 5pm pst.





PDF said:


> View attachment 673838
> 
> 
> 2 suspected IAF flights destined for Pune, India at 17 11 hrs pst.


any significance related to us ..... ???


----------



## PDF

HRK said:


> any significance related to us ..... ???


I think it would be a bit stretch to say these are non-normal flights with our recent excercies in Pano Aqil, Sindh and Punjab areas so I just think these are just routine sorties of IAF, perhaps just expected air activity.
But, what is important is that we need to keep vigilant eyes on IAF movements especially after its engagement at Ladakh, Kashmir fiasco and it's internal situation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tair-Lahoti



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PDF

PAF C-130 Hercules seen flying in Iran's Airspace on 30 Sept, 2020 at unspecified time.


----------



## PDF




----------



## Tair-Lahoti

Ukraine’s state-owned Ukrspetsexport company said Thursday that it signed a deal with Pakistan to repair and modernize the Air Force’s Il-78 aerial refueling tanker plane.

Work under the contract will be carried out by Nikolaev Aircraft Repair Plant under Ukroboronprom.

While the initial contract is to upgrade one aircraft, the total contract pegged at over $30 million, involves two more Il-78s. A contract for the remaining two will be signed based on the results of the first contract.

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) procured its four IL-78s from Ukrainian surplus stocks in the mid-to-late 2000s. The first plane was delivered to the service in December 2009. Equipped with UPAZ re-fueling pods, the PAF has used the IL-78 to support its Mirage Retrofit Strike Element (ROSE) squadrons as well as undertake heavy-lift transport tasks.

According to Pakistani local media, a PAF Il-78 was spotted at 360th Aircraft Repair Plant in Russia’s Ryazan city in early 2017. It had set off speculations that Russia could be refurbishing the aircraft.













Ukraine to Upgrade Pakistan Air Force Il-78 Tanker Plane


AF Ilyushin Il-78 tanker aircraft (image via Ukroboronprom) Ukraine’s state-owned Ukrspetsexport company said Thursday that it signed a deal with Pakistan to repair and modernize the Air Force’s Il-78 aerial refueling tanker plane. Work under the contract will be carried out by Nikolaev Aircraft...




www.defenseworld.net

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

An-26 Defected From Afghan Air Force 









Defected Afghanistan Air Force AN-12 on static display at PAF museum Karachi. It defected to Pakistan(Most probably Peshawar) during the Afghan Crisis.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falconless

Wonder if the PAF could acquire some midlife A330s for an MRTT conversion, many airlines are dumping their older planes.


----------



## Yasser76

Falconless said:


> Wonder if the PAF could acquire some midlife A330s for an MRTT conversion, many airlines are dumping their older planes.



This was always on the cards and I think at one point PAF considered A310 solution like Canada and Germany for MRTT, and PIA retired quite a few of these, unsure what happened......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falconless

Yasser76 said:


> This was always on the cards and I think at one point PAF considered A310 solution like Canada and Germany for MRTT, and PIA retired quite a few of these, unsure what happened......


The ex PIA birds were flown until all the airframe cycles were over, plus airbus is ending parts support for the A300 and A310s in 2025 last I checked.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Yasser76

Falconless said:


> The ex PIA birds were flown until all the airframe cycles were over, plus airbus is ending parts support for the A300 and A310s in 2025 last I checked.



Well I guess now is a good a time as any to pick up cheap second hand airliners. The sting is in the conversion costs and who can actually do this? Only Airbus, Israel and US capable of converting airliners to MRTT I think


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

[/QUOTE]
Airbus stopped converting A310's in favour of A330's.


Falconless said:


> Wonder if the PAF could acquire some midlife A330s for an MRTT conversion, many airlines are dumping their older planes.


In what sense of the world is the A330 an "older plane"?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MIRauf

Airbus stopped converting A310's in favour of A330's.

In what sense of the world is the A330 an "older plane"?
[/QUOTE]

A330 is favored over A310, not that A330 is old.

You can have Ukraine do the Hose conversion, yes for Drogue you need Airbus / IAI / US. With CFTs on F-16 the need for Drogue goes out of the window for PAF, that is if PAF can get hold of Block-52+ or higher.


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Falconless

Airbus stopped converting A310's in favour of A330's.

In what sense of the world is the A330 an "older plane"?
[/QUOTE]
Nobody is buying new A330s anymore, the 787 and the A350 has replaced.
The A330neo exists for a limited neiche.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Yasser76

Falconless said:


> Airbus stopped converting A310's in favour of A330's.
> 
> In what sense of the world is the A330 an "older plane"?


Nobody is buying new A330s anymore, the 787 and the A350 has replaced.
The A330neo exists for a limited neiche.
[/QUOTE]

No one is buying SAAB 2000s anymore but they are still modern and effective....


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Falconless

What types make up the PAF VIP transport fleet ?


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007




----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mshan44



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Falconless said:


> What types make up the PAF VIP transport fleet ?


Phenom 100, Cessna Citation Excel, Gulfstream IV SP. Saab 2000 and Y-12 to a lesser extent.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

If Pakistan has a few billions to spare they should consider seizing the opportunity and invest in Embraer. They're struggling especially after the deal scuttled by Boeing.
And they have KC390 in the works(not sure if it's ITAR free) even if it's not ITAR free. You can still sell it and make money(FDI).


----------



## khanmubashir

niaz said:


> Understand PAF used C-130 to drop napalm in 1965. Canisters of napalm were simply pushed out of the door. There is however a C-130 Gunship in existence and was used in the Vietnam war.
> 
> However Hon Keyseoze is right, PAF is short of heavy lift capaccity and use of C-130's as bombers should be last resort.


With advent of smart gliding kits for smart bombs 
There have been scenarios where c130 type plane used as bombers like moab dropped from one


----------



## Readerdefence

Hi isn’t it possible for PAF to install long range fire control radars in their air refuler so those can be used for ALCM for longer range or ASHM missiles 
beside Pl15 
thank you

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Readerdefence said:


> Hi isn’t it possible for PAF to install long range fire control radars in their air refuler so those can be used for ALCM for longer range or ASHM missiles
> beside Pl15
> thank you


why? we aren't short of fighters capable of doing that.


----------



## mingle

Ahmet Pasha said:


> If Pakistan has a few billions to spare they should consider seizing the opportunity and invest in Embraer. They're struggling especially after the deal scuttled by Boeing.
> And they have KC390 in the works(not sure if it's ITAR free) even if it's not ITAR free. You can still sell it and make money(FDI).


If PAF has billions Boeing will scuttled again Embraer


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

mingle said:


> If PAF has billions Boeing will scuttled again Embraer



How will Boeing interfere when we are dealing directly with Embraer?
Also what is more worth doing paying billions for a couple squadrons and having to accept nothing but peanuts(or soybeans)? Or investing in a company where you can have your cake and eat it and sell the cake to other folks and make money.


----------



## Incog_nito

When PAF going to place the order for 6 C-130J? And what's the possibility of 6 A-400Ms?


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Incog_nito said:


> When PAF going to place the order for 6 C-130J? And what's the possibility of 6 A-400Ms?


Nothing from America bro.


----------



## Bossman



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

Any chances to see Y9 or Y20 in PAF colour ?


----------



## fatman17

Y9 is a possibility with western engines and glass cockpits


Scorpiooo said:


> Any chances to see Y9 or Y20 in PAF colour ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LKJ86

fatman17 said:


> Y9 is a possibility with western engines and glass cockpits


Why not choose C-130 or A-400M directly?


----------



## Tipu7

Scorpiooo said:


> Any chances to see Y9 or Y20 in PAF colour ?


Our plans regarding C130 fleet expansion are still intact. Alongside, PAF is looking at two additional options for supplementing it's transport and cargo fleet.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SD 10

fatman17 said:


> Y9 is a possibility with western engines and glass cockpits


brother why would you put a main part of the aicraft from western countries?? sanctions?


----------



## mingle

Tipu7 said:


> Our plans regarding C130 fleet expansion are still intact. Alongside, PAF is looking at two additional options for supplementing it's transport and cargo fleet.


Any idea when we will listen any news??


----------



## Incog_nito

So, PAF will eventually going to get the Chinese transport option?


10+ Y-X (anything similar to CN-235/295)
20+ Y-9
10+ Y-20


----------



## fatman17

It's a risk but the engines currently on the Y9 may not pass the hot and high conditions tests just like the Z10.


SD 10 said:


> brother why would you put a main part of the aicraft from western countries?? sanctions?


----------



## fatman17

Doubt it very much


Incog_nito said:


> So, PAF will eventually going to get the Chinese transport option?
> 
> 
> 10+ Y-X (anything similar to CN-235/295)
> 20+ Y-9
> 10+ Y-20


----------



## fatman17

New aircraft are very costly. Pakistan has always preferred to buy used airframes and upgraded them, eg, 6 C130 from Australia and much recently 4 IL78 from Ukraine. They purchased 4 CN235 which were new but got a good deal from Indonesia.


LKJ86 said:


> Why not choose C-130 or A-400M directly?


----------



## Tipu7

mingle said:


> Any idea when we will listen any news??


Who knows. 
May be by December end, may be by March. May be the deal collapse in final phase as has happened several times in past. But the need for more cargo aircrafts is there.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Inception-06

What’s about the News of the members khafee that Pakistan will get surplus C-130 Hercules transport aircraft’s?


----------



## fatman17

Doubt it


Inception-06 said:


> What’s about the eNews of the members khafee that Pakistan will getting surplus C-130 Hercules transport aircraft’s ?


----------



## Ali_Baba

I doubt Pakistan will go for Chinese platforms for its transport fleet in any heavy way. The total airframe lifespan, cost per hour are very very important considerations for the lifespan of the platforms and one, where China is currently not competitive. Airframe lifespans of chinese aviation products are lower compared to their western competitors and that factors into the cost per hour calculations alot.

The recent decision to procure Embraer based platforms for its LRMP requirements, shows that for requirements where alot of flying hours are required, Pakistan will look towards the west. Just think about how many flying hours Pakistan's C130s have done, and realise that China cannot as yet produce a platform with that level of longevitiy for total flying hours, maintanance requirements, etc...

Low hour units such as AWE&Cs, Fighter jets will focus on China due to the high technology that China can provide.. High hour assets will be from the west.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Tipu7 said:


> Who knows.
> May be by December end, may be by March. May be the deal collapse in final phase as has happened several times in past. But the need for more cargo aircrafts is there.


I hope so there are alot surplus C130s out there


Ali_Baba said:


> I doubt Pakistan will go for Chinese platforms for its transport fleet in any heavy way. The total airframe lifespan, cost per hour are very very important considerations for the lifespan of the platforms and one, where China is currently not competitive. Airframe lifespans of chinese aviation products are lower compared to their western competitors and that factors into the cost per hour calculations alot.
> 
> The recent decision to procure Embraer based platforms for its LRMP requirements, shows that for requirements where alot of flying hours are required, Pakistan will look towards the west. Just think about how many flying hours Pakistan's C130s have done, and realise that China cannot as yet produce a platform with that level of longevitiy for total flying hours, maintanance requirements, etc...
> 
> Low hour units such as AWE&Cs, Fighter jets will focus on China due to the high technology that China can provide.. High hour assets will be from the west.


I think if PAF look for new C130 from LM there shouldn't be an issue from US too but I feel PAF needs a bigger cargo like C17 in 5-7 in number

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Ali_Baba said:


> I doubt Pakistan will go for Chinese platforms for its transport fleet in any heavy way. The total airframe lifespan, cost per hour are very very important considerations for the lifespan of the platforms and one, where China is currently not competitive. Airframe lifespans of chinese aviation products are lower compared to their western competitors and that factors into the cost per hour calculations alot.
> 
> The recent decision to procure Embraer based platforms for its LRMP requirements, shows that for requirements where alot of flying hours are required, Pakistan will look towards the west. Just think about how many flying hours Pakistan's C130s have done, and realise that China cannot as yet produce a platform with that level of longevitiy for total flying hours, maintanance requirements, etc...
> 
> Low hour units such as AWE&Cs, Fighter jets will focus on China due to the high technology that China can provide.. High hour assets will be from the west.


i think H6s were longest lifespan jets china made sir


----------



## denel

Imran Khan said:


> i think H6s were longest lifespan jets china made sir


Remember their engines were significantly changed to turbofans as well.


----------



## Scorpiooo

Tipu7 said:


> Our plans regarding C130 fleet expansion are still intact. Alongside, PAF is looking at two additional options for supplementing it's transport and cargo fleet.


Sir what are these 2 additional options, if you can share @Tipu7

iMO C390 can be option but comparing to c130 they only have 2 engines.
Secondly we are missing larger plans which can be filled by Y20 or used IL68


----------



## Incog_nito

No new development?


----------



## ghazi52

Former Afghan Air Force Antonov A-26 Curl (Tail.No. 276) after being restored at PAF Museum. This An-26 was operated by the PAF's No. 12 Squadron at Chaklala for a short duration.











...............
*When in use with PAF*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

fatman17 said:


> Y9 is a possibility with western engines and glass cockpits


That's so 1990s my dear.
Y-20 or nothing.
KC-390 is a great option. Embraer desperately needs some monies.


----------



## Incog_nito

Ahmet Pasha said:


> That's so 1990s my dear.
> Y-20 or nothing.
> KC-390 is a great option. Embraer desperately needs some monies.



IMO, for PAF we need a good decent fleet of transport aircraft as all the other military branches depend upon them. So, both Y-20 & KC-390 for PAF to acquire in good numbers to replace those C-130s and also because of the fact that Pakistan's relation with West may not be as good as they were in the 1980s.

20/25 Y-20
20/25 KC-390
10/15 CN-235
10/15 CN-295
Seems unrealistic, but if we see the future then it should be our fleet till 2030. As C-130s might convert into parts. CN-235 & CN-295 are good for light transport as well as conversion for temporary reconnaissance air craft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Incog_nito said:


> CN-235 & CN-295 are good for light transport as well as conversion for temporary reconnaissance air craft


I believe sone habibi country got their CASA aircraft converted into AC130 spooky like configuration.

We could do same. Either with CASA CN platform or KC390. There are drones both MALE and HALE, with good endurance/time on station/loitering ability but their firepower and ammo capacity is a serious limiting factor. 

Whereas, CAS/recon aircraft like AC-130 have limited loitering ability. I believe Spooky loiter time is 4-5 hours. But by God it can rain down hell's fury on enemy tgts. 

So I guess it's a tradeoff time on station vs firepower.

I think of a MALE/HALE drone like a sniper. A lot if not most of the time a sniper team is doing recon and observation. Other times the it goes in aor looking for a very specific tgt. That's drones are a good candidate for drone security in my view cuz you can keep an eye on the border and lob a atgm, gbu on a small group trying to hop the fence.

And think of Spooky like aircraft as a Squad machine gunner providing suppressing fire(only this suppresses enemy for ever). 

How do you think an AC130 like aircraft would have faired vs cobras in Pakistan's WoT campaign?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Incog_nito said:


> the future


The Pakistan state wants to expand it connectivity, trade and links in the region and through repurcussions of the same the world. If we want to do business on such a scale, we are going to have to acquire stronger military muscle. Therefore, it becomes essential to expand our sea force and the air force. Land force numbers/abilities can be played around with.

We want to spread our wings in Central Asia and towards the Borneo-Sumatra region. Therefore our uncle minded generals will have to concede to professional warrior generals. Likes of Durrani, HIT & POF uncles, the brigadier that was hanged etc need to be done away with. Secondly the bahaney baazi needs to end oh we don't have money, oh we don't have requirements, ahh we don't have economy of scale. The thousands of engineers Pakistani universities pump out can't do anything. HIT and POF wasted 2 whole decades, billions of dollars in funding. They can't do anything. Let's wait for Gora or Iron Brother to be our savior. Needs to end(bit of a rant I know. I sound like a broken record I know).

Navy has started fleet expansion which is good. Air Force needs to look into this as well. Air Force is lacking in logistic abilities most of our helicopter and fixed wing air lift fleet is medium lift. And we are flying 60 year old aircraft. Might as well call them flying museums.

So we need to expand our horizons. Having a stake/JV in embraer or KC390 would be absolutely splendid in my view(if there is a contradictory view please lemme hear it).

Also we are also lacking our own Helo industry in that we have none!

While the enemy has started making their own helos.

Turks are a good JV candidate in that regard also the new Russian Mi38. I believe there is also a Sino-Russian heavy lift chopper in the works as well.

But it has to be a JV. Otherwise we could also just go and buy Z-20 blackhawk copy from Iron Brother but that won't give us any industrial or long term benefit.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Scorpiooo said:


> Sir what are these 2 additional options, if you can share @Tipu7
> 
> iMO C390 can be option but comparing to c130 they only have 2 engines.
> Secondly we are missing larger plans which can be filled by Y20 or used IL68


KC390 will replace C-130 in future. It has 2 engines, same ones on A320s which give it decent range, good service ceiling and speed characteristics.

Even with 2 engines it has stellar cargo capability. Very close to C-130. 

One thing I notice KC390 lacks *right now *is that it lacks ability to take off from short/unprepared air strips. Embraer could work out the kinks on that. 

Interestingly Turkey is working on a JV with Ukrainian Antonov for an aircraft in similar category.








Turkey and Ukraine Strengthen Relations with An-178 Deal - Overt Defense


During a visit by the Turkish President, Recep Erdogan to Ukraine, a deal was signed for Ukraine to provide the Antonov An-178 to Turkey.




www.overtdefense.com













Ukraine: Aviation firm Antonov aims to work with Turkey


- Ukrainian, Turkish aviation companies have close relations, head of Antonov says - Anadolu Agency




www.google.com





It seems turbine might take over market share from Turbo prop like it has done in the regional airliner market. With newer, more efficient turbine engines.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Incog_nito

Ahmet Pasha said:


> I believe sone habibi country got their CASA aircraft converted into AC130 spooky like configuration.
> 
> We could do same. Either with CASA CN platform or KC390. There are drones both MALE and HALE, with good endurance/time on station/loitering ability but their firepower and ammo capacity is a serious limiting factor.
> 
> Whereas, CAS/recon aircraft like AC-130 have limited loitering ability. I believe Spooky loiter time is 4-5 hours. But by God it can rain down hell's fury on enemy tgts.
> 
> So I guess it's a tradeoff time on station vs firepower.
> 
> I think of a MALE/HALE drone like a sniper. A lot if not most of the time a sniper team is doing recon and observation. Other times the it goes in aor looking for a very specific tgt. That's drones are a good candidate for drone security in my view cuz you can keep an eye on the border and lob a atgm, gbu on a small group trying to hop the fence.
> 
> And think of Spooky like aircraft as a Squad machine gunner providing suppressing fire(only this suppresses enemy for ever).
> 
> How do you think an AC130 like aircraft would have faired vs cobras in Pakistan's WoT campaign?



But there should be manned aircraft.
CN235 & CN295 are good multipurpose platform.


air marshal said:


>



For mid-term, does PAF looking to acquire more from Ukraine?


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Incog_nito

Are we expecting any delivery of Y-20 soon?


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TOPGUN

PAF should look in to Y-20 aircraft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

TOPGUN said:


> PAF should look in to Y-20 aircraft.


Ok


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Incog_nito said:


> But there should be manned aircraft.
> CN235 & CN295 are good multipurpose platform.
> 
> 
> For mid-term, does PAF looking to acquire more from Ukraine?


Russians just test flew a newer much more advanced version of IL-78 with glass cockpit and ability to refuel 3 jets instead of 2 before.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Readerdefence

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Russians just test flew a newer much more advanced version of IL-78 with glass cockpit and ability to refuel 3 jets instead of 2 before.


Hi I believe PAF can also refuel 3 as per their requirement 
thank you

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Russians just test flew a newer much more advanced version of IL-78 with glass cockpit and ability to refuel 3 jets instead of 2 before.



All IL-78s can refuel 3 jets at a time.





But I'm now pretty sure that PAF future fleet of refuellers can be some 3 to 5 A-330 MRTs or Y-20.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

Any possibility of having a deal for the 6 C-130J with the US Govt. this year?
Although there were some speculations that PAF might not opt for C-130 in good numbers, instead the fleet might look like this in 2030/35:

15 Y-20s
15 KC-390 / Kawasaki C-2
10 CN-295
4+6 CN-235


----------



## Windjammer

Interesting to see that CN-235 in PAF operate with NVGs.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

*PAF plane leaves for China to bring Covid-19vaccine*

NCOC makes arrangements for the vaccine's storage in Islamabad, transportation to provinces.
A special plane of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) left for Beijing on Sunday to bring home the first tranche of the Sinopharm vaccine for Covid-19 vaccination in the country.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Trailer23



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

PAF Big Boys doing what they do best.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

L-100
Now 4144 in PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## LKJ86

Via @一蓑烟雨任平生sjs from Weibo

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Vapnope

Someone once said we are getting new hercs? Whatever happened to that?


----------



## Metal 0-1

PAF C-130 Hercules|Baltimore Washington.

Any idea of purpose of visit. Stayed there for four days.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

Windjammer said:


> Interesting to see that CN-235 in PAF operate with NVGs.
> 
> View attachment 712164


Sir, CN-235 is a relatively new platform than C-130E/H.


----------



## ghazi52

Strategic Transportation Squadron

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ghazi52

DC3 Dakota flying over the lower Himalaya.
Date: 1948. 







The Dakotas were the principal source of supplies for the people of Gilgit Baltistan. There was no proper road in the Northern Areas to connect with the rest of Pakistan۔

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362353783297122307

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khail007

ghazi52 said:


> DC3 Dakota flying over the lower Himalaya.
> Date: 1948.
> 
> View attachment 716957
> 
> 
> 
> The Dakotas were the principal source of supplies for the people of Gilgit Baltistan. There was no proper road in the Northern Areas to connect with the rest of Pakistan۔



Sir G, Bristol Freighters were also part of that source of supply in No: 6 squadron, afterwards replaced by C-130s in early 60's.
I am proud my father was part of No:6 in the era of Bristol Freighters and C-130s and earned Bar 'Imtiazi Sanad'.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

Why not PAF order some additional 6 CN-235s as they are being used for light missions.

Also, some 10 CN-295s can be a good addition to PAF light cargo/troops (SSGs from all three services) transport fleet.


----------



## Incog_nito

Moreover, to replace aging C-130s PAF needs to put a focus on a hybrid fleet of these options.


*Kawasaki C-2*







*Embraer KC-390*
*



*


*AN-178*
*



*

This acquisition should be separate from the Y-20.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52




----------



## Clairvoyant

A good chance for our airforce to refresh their fleet of Hercs *IF* uncle sam agrees. 









Death of Hercules: Fleet of planes favoured by SAS is to be grounded


The entire fleet of the transporter plane favoured by the SAS is to be grounded - despite fears the cost-cutting move will put soldiers' lives at risk.




www.dailymail.co.uk





The entire fleet of the transporter plane favoured by the SAS is to be grounded – despite fears the cost-cutting move will put soldiers’ lives at risk.

Retiring all 14 of the ‘Super Hercules’ C-130J – repeatedly used on Special Forces operations against IS in Iraq and Syria – would also jeopardise hundreds of UK defence jobs.

The aircraft is loved by soldiers for being easy to take off and land in rugged, hostile environments and for its anti-detection technology, protecting them from rocket attacks. Now a much larger, apparently less well-suited aircraft – the Airbus-manufactured A400M – will be trusted to fly troops behind enemy lines.

Official documents reveal concern that using the European plane will put operations at ‘greater risk’ and add to the threat against British troops.


The C-130J’s retirement is part of the Government’s Integrated Review of defence spending, which is also likely to include a cut of 10,000 soldiers, fewer tanks and armoured vehicles and the withdrawal of RAF fighter jets.


The move is a huge U-turn by defence chiefs who in 2019 said the C-130J would remain in service until 2035 as no other aircraft could perform its high-risk role.

Scrapping the planes now will mean the MoD does not have to pay for expensive upgrades to keep them flying until 2035. The RAF will then use its 20 Airbus A400M transporters instead.

But last night, Tobias Ellwood MP, chairman of the Commons defence committee, said he had written to Defence Secretary Ben Wallace to express his ‘grave concerns’ about the move. He had been asked by anxious military commanders to raise concerns on their behalf.

The MoD is also opting to axe the planes despite key allies such as the US, Australia, New Zealand and France still buying the American-manufactured aircraft.

The official documents suggest the C-130J should be retained because it meets the SAS’s specific operational requirements, stating: ‘The A400M and the C-17 [another alternative aircraft] are physically too large for certain Special Forces missions, which often take place in tight, austere spaces. The larger the aircraft the more prone they are to threats. [The A400M’s] extra 10ft of height presents a bigger target in ground ops [operations] and the larger surface area increases its vulnerability to missile threats.’

Highly skilled British engineers could also be put out of work by the decision because while the C-130J is serviced in the UK, the A400M goes to factories in continental Europe. Marshall Aerospace and Defence Group, based in Cambridge, maintains the C-130J fleet and employs 800 engineers in its military aviation wing.

Thirteen other UK companies are also understood to be in the supply chain and could be severely affected by the move. The C-130J has been the RAF’s primary transport aircraft since 1999.

An Airbus spokesman said: ‘The A400M matches or exceeds C-130J capability. The A400M’s large cargo and the possibility to airdrop single loads of up to 16 tonnes enables the aircraft to perform missions with a larger variety of loads... Also the A400M has proven better range and speed that enables it to quickly react and operate worldwide.’

An MoD spokesman said: ‘As threats change our Armed Forces must change and they are being redesigned to confront future threats, not re-fight old wars.’

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Path-Finder

RAF is going to retire its C130! surely that is a mouthwatering deal.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

Path-Finder said:


> RAF is going to retire its C130! surely that is a mouthwatering deal.


Is it C130 h ? , How much airframe life left in them ?


----------



## Path-Finder

Scorpiooo said:


> Is it C130 h ? , How much airframe life left in them ?











Death of Hercules: Fleet of planes favoured by SAS is to be grounded


The entire fleet of the transporter plane favoured by the SAS is to be grounded - despite fears the cost-cutting move will put soldiers' lives at risk.




www.dailymail.co.uk





its J

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## python-000

Incog_nito said:


> Moreover, to replace aging C-130s PAF needs to put a focus on a hybrid fleet of these options.
> 
> 
> *Kawasaki C-2*
> 
> View attachment 718368
> 
> 
> 
> *Embraer KC-390*
> *
> View attachment 718369
> *
> 
> 
> *AN-178*
> *
> View attachment 718370
> *
> 
> This acquisition should be separate from the Y-20.


Pakistan can get AN-178 from Ukrain for transport or other EW operations...


----------



## ghazi52

Lockheed L-100. 144 .....* Page is also 144*






.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ghazi52

Lockheed L-100 Serial # 64145 Ex AP-AUU.

This Particular Aircraft Crashed Into The Northern Areas Mountains Back In 1968.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Sad Sad:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

python-000 said:


> Pakistan can get AN-178 from Ukrain for transport or other EW operations...


Its too early days for an 178 , PAF will not going to take any risk secondly they will not be available on credit instead in same range y9 can be option from china we already using Y8


----------



## Incog_nito

python-000 said:


> Pakistan can get AN-178 from Ukrain for transport or other EW operations...



I mean as multi-purpose transport.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khail007

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 721495
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lockheed L-100 Serial # 64145 Ex AP-AUU.
> 
> This Particular Aircraft Crashed Into The Northern Areas Mountains Back In 1968.
> 
> 
> View attachment 721496


Sir G, in those days routine sorties to China for overhauling F-6 power plants - that aircraft lost while on returning leg due to very bad weather in that area and the wreckage found months later.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

Il-78MP Of Pakistan Air Force.

Il-78 Soviet Four-engined Aerial Refueling Tanker Based On The Il-76 Strategic Airlifter.

© Zohaib Malik

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

Fokker F-27 PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## khail007

ghazi52 said:


> Fokker F-27 PAF.
> 
> 
> View attachment 722978


Sir G the following link is looking for the photo of J752, if it is legal could you upload it for their records - I consider you to be the owner of the picture.




__





Upload aircraft J-752 photo






www.airport-data.com


----------



## ghazi52

Today from China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yasser76

RAF now retiring all it's C-130Js in a year or so, be a shame if PAF did not grab these.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374047100456013834

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Yasser76 said:


> RAF now retiring all it's C-130Js in a year or so, be a shame if PAF did not grab these.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374047100456013834


I imagine Bangladesh will pick them up.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yasser76

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I imagine Bangladesh will pick them up.



That is a lot of transport for Bangladesh, a hell of a lot. It's geography dictates that for most transport tasks rail and road would be more efficient (as opposed to time loading and unloading at an airport) and they have very few foreign commitments or even airborne forces.

My guess is India, Canada or Germany unless PAF jumps in

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

The J variants are v.v.v. expensive to maintain, which is why the RAF is getting rid of them ( silly decision imho .... ), so i dont see how PAF or BAF and procure and maintain them given how much infrastructure and training is required.

RAF will be getting rid of all supporting infrastructure aswell, so an air arm can buy the whole ecosystem rather than starting from scrath alone..

IAF can as they already operate this variant.... it is the simplest way for them to uptick their transport capabilities.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

PAF should definitely try to acquire as many of these as possible. I cant imagine them being that more expensive to maintain or operate vs 1960s era C-130s. 
We definitely need more transport in the class, even if just to replace the ones we have lost due to accidents.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ghazi52

*.*

*Kosher.*

Reactions: Like Like:
5 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## BlackViking

Yasser76 said:


> That is a lot of transport for Bangladesh, a hell of a lot. It's geography dictates that for most transport tasks rail and road would be more efficient (as opposed to time loading and unloading at an airport) and they have very few foreign commitments or even airborne forces.
> 
> My guess is India, Canada or Germany unless PAF jumps in


Baf has a requirement of 12-15 transport aircrafts...they recently bought 5 ex raf c130js and one ex usaf c130h... I guess 2/3 more won't hurt :p

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Ali_Baba said:


> The J variants are v.v.v. expensive to maintain, which is why the RAF is getting rid of them ( silly decision imho .... ), so i dont see how PAF or BAF and procure and maintain them given how much infrastructure and training is required.
> 
> RAF will be getting rid of all supporting infrastructure aswell, so an air arm can buy the whole ecosystem rather than starting from scrath alone..
> 
> IAF can as they already operate this variant.... it is the simplest way for them to uptick their transport capabilities.


Fun fact, but our Saab 2000s use the same engines as the C-130J. So, technically speaking, we already have some familiarity (and maybe even MRO for those engines) in place.

If not for "issues" I'm sure the PAF would've been happy acquiring the LM-100J with some minor modifications. IMO those aircraft wouldn't cost more than $120 m each all-in. However, if not for "issues" we'd have dozens of EDA F-16s, dozens of UH-60s, the AH-1Zs, etc too.

The US isn't sanctioning us, sure, but it's definitely reserving its right to say "no" when and where it wants.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Yasser76

BlackViking said:


> Baf has a requirement of 12-15 transport aircrafts...they recently bought 5 ex raf c130js and one ex usaf c130h... I guess 2/3 more won't hurt :p



Yeah, but RAF selling 14 planes. Pretty sure that maybe a bit too much for BAF, they will have other spending priorities rather then an oversized transport fleet


----------



## Scorpiooo

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Fun fact, but our Saab 2000s use the same engines as the C-130J. So, technically speaking, we already have some familiarity (and maybe even MRO for those engines) in place.
> 
> If not for "issues" I'm sure the PAF would've been happy acquiring the LM-100J with some minor modifications. IMO those aircraft wouldn't cost more than $120 m each all-in. However, if not for "issues" we'd have dozens of EDA F-16s, dozens of UH-60s, the AH-1Zs, etc too.
> 
> The US isn't sanctioning us, sure, but it's definitely reserving its right to say "no" when and where it wants.


How much life will left in these Js by RAF


----------



## GriffinsRule

Scorpiooo said:


> How much life will left in these Js by RAF


I would say easily 30-40 years.


----------



## Scorpiooo

GriffinsRule said:


> I would say easily 30-40 years.


If this is case then. They are very good option in long term and ecnomical too for PAF


----------



## BlackViking

Ali_Baba said:


> so i dont see how PAF or BAF and procure and maintain them given how much infrastructure and training is required.


Baf recently bought 5 ex raf c130j and had them upgraded by Marshall adg. Marshall will setup local presence in the form of a service centre or will work inside a BAF base to support the C-130J fleet.


Yasser76 said:


> Yeah, but RAF selling 14 planes. Pretty sure that maybe a bit too much for BAF, they will have other spending priorities rather then an oversized transport fleet


Obviously...we cant afford 14 planes together..I'm talking about grabbing 2/3

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## monitor

Amazing pictures of PAF’s Il-78 captured in Italy 
© Davideita_aviation (Instagram)

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Yasser76 said:


> Yeah, but RAF selling 14 planes. Pretty sure that maybe a bit too much for BAF, they will have other spending priorities rather then an oversized transport fleet


For what it's worth, the BAF AHQ asked for a budget for fighter aircraft. I'm sure there's a 50:50 chance that, somehow, that money ends up going into 14 more C-130Js... @Bilal9

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yasser76

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> For what it's worth, the BAF AHQ asked for a budget for fighter aircraft. I'm sure there's a 50:50 chance that, somehow, that money ends up going into 14 more C-130Js... @Bilal9



That would be strange. Bangladesh has little or no foreign commitments and no plans to large airborne deployments. Would be a waste of money and manpower to have so many planes sitting on the tarmac.

IAF may well push for these planes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## monitor

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> For what it's worth, the BAF AHQ asked for a budget for fighter aircraft. I'm sure there's a 50:50 chance that, somehow, that money ends up going into 14 more C-130Js... @Bilal9



We may get few more c-130J to replaced our old c-130 and supplement existing fleet but very unlikely we will go for 14 c-130J. For fighter aircraft it seems our Airforce priorities western fighter probably typhoon.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yasser76

monitor said:


> We may get few more c-130J to replaced our old c-130 and supplement existing fleet but very unlikely we will go for 14 c-130J. For fighter aircraft it seems our Airforce priorities western fighter probably typhoon.



I would of actually put down BD as first export customer for J-10...


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Yasser76 said:


> I would of actually put down BD as first export customer for J-10...


Not to get too off-topic, but I think the BAF will go Western all the way. They shouldn't have any difficulty getting the financing or even industrial offsets (albeit in non-defence industries) to get a deal going.

IMO, Bangladesh ought to start with the JAS-39E/F and, in parallel, slot themselves into the KAI KFX. They'd use near-identical engines (GE F414), offer fleet-wide supercruising, and the same weapons set (e.g., MBDA Meteor, SCALP, IRIS-T, etc). Basically, maintain the JAS-39E/Fs to control the air over land, and the KFX/IFX to establish a maritime and long-range capability. Pair it with the GlobalEye AEW&C and A330 MRTT, and they're set.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

I guess PAF is happy using their old C-130s with upgrades.

When the new Y-20s are coming to complement the C-130s in Transport roles?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

*2008*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

L-100-382B-4C Hercules 64144/T/AP-AUT in Pakistan Air Force service was actually leased from Pakistan International Airlines.

Photographed at Luqa Park 4, Malta, on 1 December 1975.

© John Visanich

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

*Pakistan Air Force Vickers Viscount V734 J751 at London Airport in 1960.*








Vickers Viscount 1956-1967, The Viscount was a British medium range turboprop airliner first flown in 1948 by Vickers Armstongs Limited, making it the first such aircraft to enter service in the world. It would go on to be one of the most successful of the first-generation post-war transports, with 445 being built.

Crewed by 2 + Cabin Crew, The Aircraft Could Accommodate 75 Passenger, Used as a VIP transport by the Pakistan Air Force.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

DC3 Dakota flying over the lower Himalaya.

The Dakotas were the principal source of supplies for the people of Gilgit Baltistan. There was no proper road in the Northern Areas to connect with the rest of Pakistan۔

Date: 1948.

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

What will be the most ecnomical and viable future transportation option for PAF as we lack alot in it when comparing with IAF


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Scorpiooo said:


> What will be the most ecnomical and viable future transportation option for PAF as we lack alot in it when comparing with IAF


Wait for charity from either America or China

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Wait for charity from either America or China


but these charities not even free, came at some cost or demands


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Scorpiooo said:


> but these charities not even free, came at some cost or demands


Yar ye to ab tum air marshalon aur brigadieron ko samjhao. What can I do?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Scorpiooo said:


> but these charities not even free, came at some cost or demands


jo pesy de g mazy poory le ga


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Imran Khan said:


> jo pesy de g mazy poory le ga


That's what she said 🤣🤣


----------



## Oruc

@Tps43 sir on another forum its being said that you confirmed the delivery of C130js. Is is true?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
2


----------



## ghazi52

Il-78MP Of Pakistan Air Force.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ghazi52

Pakistan Air Force C-130 Hercules were frequent visitors to Luqa, Malta. this is 64312 “L” leaving Luqa on 12th March 1976.






.

August 1977, Luqa Malta








In North

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

How many active C13O PAF have in service right now


----------



## fatman17

Scorpiooo said:


> How many active C13O PAF have in service right now


16

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Scorpiooo

Mostly PAf use IL78 in transportation role even on long international routes, we already have limited number, so what in case of any emergency situation.. this can effect us, PAf need increase refueling aircrafts


----------



## Scorpiooo

ghazi52 said:


> Il-78MP Of Pakistan Air Force.
> 
> 
> View attachment 735523


PAF is using IL 78 in duel role ..
They were used one got on very cheaper price

Why PAF is not instructed to add more IL78 used one for multi role


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## waq



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

Pakistan Air Force's C-130 had an important role to play in Pakistan's Atomic Tests in 28th May 1998.







Hercules, with tight air cover provided by PAF F-16s, transported all the scientists, army and civilian personnel, and the Atom Bombs to Balochistan for tests. YOUM-E-TAKBEER MUBARAK

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

The No 6 squadron of the Pakistan Air Force

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Vapnope

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) PAF wants refueler for F16s? By any chance is it available to PAF through CSF?


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Vapnope said:


> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) PAF wants refueler for F16s? By any chance is it available to PAF through CSF?


The PAF had asked Airbus DS for the A330 MRTT, but couldn't get approvals at the time. They may have gotten a better signal this time around (the German, UK, Spanish and Italian governments were always willing to play ball, but the French have been a big question mark).

If so, the PAF would pay for them in full, but it would also mean the end of the IL-78 in its role as tanker (as the A330 MRTT can do boom and hose-and-drogue-type refueling). I'd expect 2 with an option for 2 more.

If not A330 MRTT, then I expect the Turks have quietly commissioned a project to create their own boom module. We can get hose-and-drogue kits from Ukraine. The last piece is finding a good airliner and configuring it for the AAR role. If the Turks are leading the design and integration program, we may be riding shotgun with them. @SQ8

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Vapnope

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF had asked Airbus DS for the A330 MRTT, but couldn't get approvals at the time. They may have gotten a better signal this time around (the German, UK, Spanish and Italian governments were always willing to play ball, but the French have been a big question mark).
> 
> If so, the PAF would pay for them in full, but it would also mean the end of the IL-78 in its role as tanker (as the A330 MRTT can do boom and hose-and-drogue-type refueling). I'd expect 2 with an option for 2 more.
> 
> If not A330 MRTT, then I expect the Turks have quietly commissioned a project to create their own boom module. We can get hose-and-drogue kits from Ukraine. The last piece is finding a good airliner and configuring it for the AAR role. If the Turks are leading the design and integration program, we may be riding shotgun with them. @SQ8


If the kits from Ukraine are available, can we configure Embraer 1000 for that role? So instead of buying 10 we get 2 more specifically as tankers for F16 fleet?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF had asked Airbus DS for the A330 MRTT, but couldn't get approvals at the time. They may have gotten a better signal this time around (the German, UK, Spanish and Italian governments were always willing to play ball, but the French have been a big question mark).
> 
> If so, the PAF would pay for them in full, but it would also mean the end of the IL-78 in its role as tanker (as the A330 MRTT can do boom and hose-and-drogue-type refueling). I'd expect 2 with an option for 2 more.
> 
> If not A330 MRTT, then I expect the Turks have quietly commissioned a project to create their own boom module. We can get hose-and-drogue kits from Ukraine. The last piece is finding a good airliner and configuring it for the AAR role. If the Turks are leading the design and integration program, we may be riding shotgun with them. @SQ8


I don’t think the French would sell a screw at this stage due to the recent events. However the Turks did have a project that was posted here earlier as well to commission a boom module but I don’t recall the airliner. They do have their 135s which they can extend the life of further.

They may just ask for the pegagus and get on with it

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Vapnope said:


> If the kits from Ukraine are available, can we configure Embraer 1000 for that role? So instead of buying 10 we get 2 more specifically as tankers for F16 fleet?


The Lineage 1000E doesn't have the fuel volume to efficiently support AAR. We'd want these jets to support like 8-12 fighters in one flight. The tankers will need enough fuel for their fighters and for themselves so that they can keep in the air long enough.



SQ8 said:


> I don’t think the French would sell a screw at this stage due to the recent events. However the Turks did have a project that was posted here earlier as well to commission a boom module but I don’t recall the airliner. They do have their 135s which they can extend the life of further.
> 
> They may just ask for the pegagus and get on with it


Pivoting to support aircraft (e.g., C-130J, CH-47F, and KC-46) on the grounds of needing 'HADR assets' would be a smart move. However, the U.S. might still refuse to sell them because they're strategically valuable. 

On the other hand, the U.S. might not actually care if we end up paying from our own pockets. The last time we tried that approach (late-1980s), the U.S. was even willing to help co-design a fighter (Sabre II). So, as the adage goes, "money talks, BS walks." 

If the PAF has $500 m for 2 KC-46s, I do think the U.S. will listen. If not the U.S., then that money will likely end up in a joint-TuAF-PAF initiative to design a boom system, and fit it to a surplus airliner.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Scorpiooo

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF had asked Airbus DS for the A330 MRTT, but couldn't get approvals at the time. They may have gotten a better signal this time around (the German, UK, Spanish and Italian governments were always willing to play ball, but the French have been a big question mark).
> 
> If so, the PAF would pay for them in full, but it would also mean the end of the IL-78 in its role as tanker (as the A330 MRTT can do boom and hose-and-drogue-type refueling). I'd expect 2 with an option for 2 more.
> 
> If not A330 MRTT, then I expect the Turks have quietly commissioned a project to create their own boom module. We can get hose-and-drogue kits from Ukraine. The last piece is finding a good airliner and configuring it for the AAR role. If the Turks are leading the design and integration program, we may be riding shotgun with them. @SQ8


We heard that PAF want 310 to be converted to 310 MTR but they refused and instead offer 330 MRTT, which we cant offered at all .. 

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) why you think now if 330 MRtt or something else with duel refueling options will end Il78, PAF already short in numbers of refueling options 

Additionally IL78 already doing double role of refueling and heavy uplifting

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Scorpiooo said:


> We heard that PAF want 310 to be converted to 310 MTR but they refused and instead offer 330 MRTT, which we cant offered at all ..
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) why you think now if 330 MRtt or something else with duel refueling options will end Il78, PAF already short in numbers of refueling options
> 
> Additionally IL78 already doing double role of refueling and heavy uplifting


The PAF did want the A310 MRTT, but Airbus DS was promoting the A330 MRTT. The PAF didn't like the higher price tag, but I was told that the PAF was OK with going the A330 MRTT route. The A330 was affordable to use and the PAF would use the MRTTs for a few decades. But Airbus DS said it couldn't get approval to sell it to us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF did want the A310 MRTT, but Airbus DS was promoting the A330 MRTT. The PAF didn't like the higher price tag, but I was told that the PAF was OK with going the A330 MRTT route. The A330 was affordable to use and the PAF would use the MRTTs for a few decades. But Airbus DS said it couldn't get approval to sell it to us.


New info for me, so means PAF inactual no option in hand ever, except IL78 in past..

PAF can consider Y20 based tankers in future to increase numbers..


----------



## Blacklight

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF did want the A310 MRTT, but Airbus DS was promoting the A330 MRTT. The PAF didn't like the higher price tag, but I was told that the PAF was OK with going the A330 MRTT route. The A330 was affordable to use and the PAF would use the MRTTs for a few decades. But Airbus DS said it couldn't get approval to sell it to us.


Just an idea. how about some CFT's with probes?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm

Blacklight said:


> Just an idea. how about some CFT's with probes?
> 
> View attachment 749827
> 
> View attachment 749828
> 
> View attachment 749833
> 
> View attachment 749830
> 
> View attachment 749829
> 
> View attachment 749831
> 
> View attachment 749832
> 
> View attachment 749834
> 
> View attachment 749835



This Concept was tried and promoted without any customer success  the customer interested already fly boom system

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blacklight

khanasifm said:


> This Concept was tried and promoted without any customer success



This is why I was suggesting, maybe this would be a cheaper option for us, instead of getting refuelers with booms.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Blacklight said:


> This is why I was suggesting, maybe this would be a cheaper option for us, instead of getting refuelers with booms.


Pakistan should move away from USA equipment and get jets from somewhere else. 





AN 178 




KC 390

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blacklight

Zarvan said:


> Pakistan should move away from USA equipment and get jets from somewhere else.
> 
> View attachment 749943
> 
> AN 178
> View attachment 749944
> 
> KC 390


Our Viper fleet, is not going anywhere for the next 2 decades min, still has an IFR issue. 

There are only two ways of tackling this issue, either get an IFR probe in a pod / CFT, as mentioned earlier in this thread, OR get a tanker with a boom.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zarvan

Blacklight said:


> Our Viper fleet, is not going anywhere for the next 2 decades min, still has an IFR issue.
> 
> There are only two ways of tackling this issue, either get an IFR probe in a pod / CFT, as mentioned earlier in this thread, OR get a tanker with a boom.


Sir I was referring to C 130. Slowly phasing them out and going for Military Transport planes but not from USA. From countries like Ukraine and Brazil and China and others.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ali_raza

Blacklight said:


> This is why I was suggesting, maybe this would be a cheaper option for us, instead of getting refuelers with booms.


don’t u think we should rather have our own transport platform with middle eastern or chinese

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blacklight

khanasifm said:


> This Concept was tried and promoted without any customer success  t*he customer interested already fly boom system*


If you are referring to the Blk60's with the CFT, this was for the Indian Air Force, not UAEAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blacklight

ali_raza said:


> don’t u think we should rather have our own* transport platform* with middle eastern or chinese


The main advantage of western systems is the COTS and availability of parts. 

With the Chinese, unless there is a serious % of ToT OR complete independent MRO, best not to go down that road.

As to the Middle East, the Saudis were doing a JV with with Antonov 132, that project was abandoned, so not sure what they are up to now.

@The SC @Philip the Arab Can you Gents update us on any Trnspt a/c progs in the ME?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

Blacklight said:


> The main advantage of western systems is the COTS and availability of parts.
> 
> With the Chinese, unless there is a serious % of ToT OR complete independent MRO, best not to go down that road.
> 
> As to the Middle East, the Saudis were doing a JV with with Antonov 132, that project was abandoned, so not sure what they are up to now.
> 
> @The SC @Philip the Arab Can you Gents update us on any Trnspt a/c progs in the ME?


That project of the AN132 is still alive it has just changed hands when SAMI was established..There is a huge airplane factory being built in KSA with the latest space manufacturing technologies..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

Blacklight said:


> This is why I was suggesting, maybe this would be a cheaper option for us, instead of getting refuelers with booms.


Then PAF need to upgrade existing non block 52 with these CFT, 
What will be the cost per aircraft any idea

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Scorpiooo

Blacklight said:


> The main advantage of western systems is the COTS and availability of parts.
> 
> With the Chinese, unless there is a serious % of ToT OR complete independent MRO, best not to go down that road.
> 
> As to the Middle East, the Saudis were doing a JV with with Antonov 132, that project was abandoned, so not sure what they are up to now.
> 
> @The SC @Philip the Arab Can you Gents update us on any Trnspt a/c progs in the ME?


What your opinion on Y20 based tanker with Chinese engine ... In long run y20 it will good platform for heavy weight lifting and refueling

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blacklight

Scorpiooo said:


> Then PAF need to upgrade existing non block 52 with these CFT,
> What will be the cost per aircraft any idea



No idea


Scorpiooo said:


> What your opinion on Y20 based tanker with Chinese engine ... In long run y20 it will good platform for heavy weight lifting and refueling







__





Pakistan Air Force Transport


This is why I was suggesting, maybe this would be a cheaper option for us, instead of getting refuelers with booms. don’t u think we should rather have our own transport platform with middle eastern or chinese



defence.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Philip the Arab

@Blacklight 
Nothing yet, although i think in the next 5 or so years we will see a turboprop transport platform developed by Calidus in the UAE.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ali_raza

Blacklight said:


> The main advantage of western systems is the COTS and availability of parts.
> 
> With the Chinese, unless there is a serious % of ToT OR complete independent MRO, best not to go down that road.
> 
> As to the Middle East, the Saudis were doing a JV with with Antonov 132, that project was abandoned, so not sure what they are up to now.
> 
> @The SC @Philip the Arab Can you Gents update us on any Trnspt a/c progs in the ME?


pakistan can join saudi project with local inputs 
or take saab safari route but traditional design as a whole and developing on it 
saab can be good option

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

In 2006, Pakistan participated in RIAT for the first time, when the Air Tattoo’s theme was Rapid Global Effect. PAF covered its Hercules C-130 with beautifully painted murals of the humanitarian efforts undertaken after the earthquake. The display and crew were well-received and the team won multiple awards. These awards included winning the Concours d’ Elegance competition, the Page Aerospace Trophy as well as the BAE Systems’ Trophy for winning the Spirit of the Meet competition.


----------



## ghazi52

F-27 was inducted in PAF in 1965. After the F-27 air crash on Feb, 2003 (in which PAF Air Chief and 16 other men lost their lives) the last and final F-27 serving in PAF was phased out in 2004.


----------



## ghazi52

*Military Cognizance*


Ukrainian firm Ukrspetsexport signed a contract with the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) to repair its IL-78 aerial refueling aircraft .
















The agreement was signed on the second day of the "Arms and Security-2021" exhibition currently on in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev.
"Today, Ukrspetsexport, represented by its General Director Vadym Nozdri, signed a contract with Pakistani partners for the repair of another (second) IL-78 refueling aircraft," the company announced on its Facebook page.
In June of last year, DK "Ukrspetsexport" won a multi-million dollar tender to repair the first of the PAF’s IL-78 refueling aircraft. That contract for the repair of the fuel tanker has already been successfully fulfilled by the State Enterprise, Mykolaiv Air Repair Plant, the announcement said.
In addition, the Ukrainian side received confirmation of the intentions of the PAF to conclude the next package of contracts for the overhaul of two more refueling aircraft. The (repair) package is worth more than $30 million for all four planes.
Pakistan purchased 4 Il-78 aircraft from Ukraine in 2008 equipped with with Russian-designed UPAZ refueling pods, Full operation began by 2010. The refueling pods on the IL-78 Midas aircraft are suitable to refuel the PAF’s JF-17 jets.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Akh1112

Scorpiooo said:


> Then PAF need to upgrade existing non block 52 with these CFT,
> What will be the cost per aircraft any idea





They use Israeli tech.


----------



## SD 10

a


ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 754218
> 
> 
> 
> *Military Cognizance*
> 
> 
> Ukrainian firm Ukrspetsexport signed a contract with the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) to repair its IL-78 aerial refueling aircraft .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The agreement was signed on the second day of the "Arms and Security-2021" exhibition currently on in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev.
> "Today, Ukrspetsexport, represented by its General Director Vadym Nozdri, signed a contract with Pakistani partners for the repair of another (second) IL-78 refueling aircraft," the company announced on its Facebook page.
> In June of last year, DK "Ukrspetsexport" won a multi-million dollar tender to repair the first of the PAF’s IL-78 refueling aircraft. That contract for the repair of the fuel tanker has already been successfully fulfilled by the State Enterprise, Mykolaiv Air Repair Plant, the announcement said.
> In addition, the Ukrainian side received confirmation of the intentions of the PAF to conclude the next package of contracts for the overhaul of two more refueling aircraft. The (repair) package is worth more than $30 million for all four planes.
> Pakistan purchased 4 Il-78 aircraft from Ukraine in 2008 equipped with with Russian-designed UPAZ refueling pods, Full operation began by 2010. The refueling pods on the IL-78 Midas aircraft are suitable to refuel the PAF’s JF-17 jets.


any news on what will be upgraded?


----------



## Scorpiooo

Akh1112 said:


> They use Israeli tech.


Refueling CFT for F16 are Israel based ?


----------



## MIRauf

Scorpiooo said:


> Refueling CFT for F16 are Israel based ?


Yes, also CFT as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Super Falcon

Pak must consider heave trasport aircraft from china and some tactical to take ageing C 130 s out


----------



## Incog_nito

Is PAF considering to acquire additional IL-76 series from Ukraine or other operators with upgrades until Chinese aircrafts become available.


----------



## mingle

Incog_nito said:


> Is PAF considering to acquire additional IL-76 series from Ukraine or other operators with upgrades until Chinese aircrafts become available.


No


----------



## Incog_nito

I guess PAF might be looking to acquire a mix of 15+ Chinese Y-9s and 15+ US built C-130s.

I guess it's time best time to get the deal done for both.


----------



## mingle

Incog_nito said:


> I guess PAF might be looking to acquire a mix of 15+ Chinese Y-9s and 15+ US built C-130s.
> 
> I guess it's time best time to get the deal done for both.


Why it's best time?


----------



## Incog_nito

mingle said:


> Why it's best time?


The age of the fleet is depleting quite fast.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

Wait and see , we might see few new/used C130 in form of FMS if afghan exit pn workout otherwise non from usa

____________________________________
If lineage 1000 work well of PN we might see few C390 in future (if able get some loan for them)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

Why PAF C130s are in multiple color schemes even till date


----------



## Yasser76

Scorpiooo said:


> Why PAF C130s are in multiple color schemes even till date



They are not, this is a very old pic

You can see details and different colour schemes of this exact airframe (64310) here





__





Airframe Details for C-130 #4148







www.c-130.net

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

C-130 in France

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sifar zero

Did our C130's get any upgrades or MLU's? Or are they the same?


----------



## Reichmarshal

Yes they have been overhauled and upgraded with glass cockpits


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Reichmarshal said:


> Yes they have been overhauled and upgraded with glass cockpits


Backup of your claim please, nothing happened, our latest C130 is E version after that there is no upgradation to our C130, don't spread false rumors just like you spreading in Navy section, no one believe you without any proof


----------



## Sifar zero

Reichmarshal said:


> Yes they have been overhauled and upgraded with glass cockpits


All of them?


----------



## mingle

White and Green with M/S said:


> Backup of your claim please, nothing happened, our latest C130 is E version after that there is no upgradation to our C130, don't spread false rumors just like you spreading in Navy section, no one believe you without any proof


Done by Honeywell during Mush era


----------



## Incog_nito

C-130s are now pretty old machines with strings attached from the USA.
20-25 Chinese Origin Y-9s can be the best replacement for the 18 C-130s of PAF.

Is PAF looking to acquire the remaining 6 IL-76/78s from Ukraine with the same upgrade package?


----------



## Reichmarshal

White and Green with M/S said:


> Backup of your claim please, nothing happened, our latest C130 is E version after that there is no upgradation to our C130, don't spread false rumors just like you spreading in Navy section, no one believe you without any proof


If u don't know things than its better to be quiet n learn, rather than making a fool of ur self.

Their were 2 programs to upgrade the c 130 n bring them to h standard:
First happened in 2014 by which the u.s govt under the head of FMS agreed on a program for PAF C-130 Fleet Upgrade and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $100 million.

This included, avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft. Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost was $100 million.

2. In 2016 again under FMS, Rockwell Collins was awarded a 30 million $ contract to provide Flight to avionics system to PAF to upgrade 11 C-130E and five c130 b ac.
Under the terms of the $30m contract, the company designed, manufactured, integrated, trained and delivered 11 C-130E model kits and five C-130B integrated avionics suites and kits to Pakistani Air Force (PAF).

The contract covered the development, validation, and delivery of consolidated B/E flight manual and associated checklists, as well as maintenance supplements.
Work under the contract was carried out at PAF’s Nur Khan Base, Islamabad.

And in between the two
PAF with some help from Allison engine company updated the old engines to Allison T56-A-15 turboprops. This too happened at noor khan AFB.

Making our c130 fleet into h model in all aspects but the name

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## iLION12345_1

Incog_nito said:


> C-130s are now pretty old machines with strings attached from the USA.
> 20-25 Chinese Origin Y-9s can be the best replacement for the 18 C-130s of PAF.
> 
> Is PAF looking to acquire the remaining 6 IL-76/78s from Ukraine with the same upgrade package?


PAF would rather go for an European option, there’s also Brazilian, Japanese and Russian offerings in this sector apart from the American and Chinese ones.


----------



## Scorpiooo

iLION12345_1 said:


> PAF would rather go for an European option, there’s also Brazilian, Japanese and Russian offerings in this sector apart from the American and Chinese ones.


PAF can go for more C130s used one from any 3rd country and possibly C390 from Embraer can be considered after selection of Embraer 1000 lineage by PN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Yasser76

Chance to grab around 12 C-130J for very low price as RAF are retiring them, but we will need US permission


----------



## iLION12345_1

Scorpiooo said:


> PAF can go for more C130s used one from any 3rd country and possibly C390 from Embraer can be considered after selection of Embraer 1000 lineage by PN


Used C-130s need US permission as well. While it won’t be impossible to get said permission, with the current situation with Afghanistan nothing is certain.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

iLION12345_1 said:


> Used C-130s need US permission as well. While it won’t be impossible to get said permission, with the current situation with Afghanistan nothing is certain.


Yes sir Afghan situation atleast can make C130 availability for us, we konw PAF are very much satisfied with C130 from decade's. 

Royal airforce is getting rid multiple C130s which can be considered (if get in cheaper cost)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Reichmarshal said:


> If u don't know things than its better to be quiet n learn, rather than making a fool of ur self.
> 
> Their were 2 programs to upgrade the c 130 n bring them to h standard:
> First happened in 2014 by which the u.s govt under the head of FMS agreed on a program for PAF C-130 Fleet Upgrade and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $100 million.
> 
> This included, avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft. Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost was $100 million.
> 
> 2. In 2016 again under FMS, Rockwell Collins was awarded a 30 million $ contract to provide Flight to avionics system to PAF to upgrade 11 C-130E and five c130 b ac.
> Under the terms of the $30m contract, the company designed, manufactured, integrated, trained and delivered 11 C-130E model kits and five C-130B integrated avionics suites and kits to Pakistani Air Force (PAF).
> 
> The contract covered the development, validation, and delivery of consolidated B/E flight manual and associated checklists, as well as maintenance supplements.
> Work under the contract was carried out at PAF’s Nur Khan Base, Islamabad.
> 
> And in between the two
> PAF with some help from Allison engine company updated the old engines to Allison T56-A-15 turboprops. This too happened at noor khan AFB.
> 
> Making our c130 fleet into h model in all aspects but the name


Ok ànd thanks


----------



## Reichmarshal

The Rockwell program ended in 2020.....our birds r good n ready to soldier on for at least an other couple of decades if not more.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

35th Composite Air Transport Wing

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

On this day 15 years ago, No 6 ATS Squadron of PAF participated in the prestigious Royal International Air Tattoo 2006 held at RAF Station, Fairford along with 34 participating Air Forces. 

The theme for RIAT 2006 was Rapid Global Effect, focused on unparalleled Reach & Flexibility of Air Power, especially when dealing with Disaster Management and Relief Operations.

PAF C-130 Hercules Tail No 4144 wore special paint scheme depicting PAF's efforts in support of Disaster Management & Relief Ops in the aftermath of the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan. PAF team won all three trophies for Static Display and Team Competitions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

A C-130, Mirage IIIs and JF-17A Thunders from the Pakistan Air Force to display their skills in the skies of the UK tomorrow. PAF will participate in the Virtual Royal International Air Tattoo 2021.


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52




----------



## hassan1




----------



## Ahmet Pasha

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 771974


Yea belongs in a museum


----------



## iLION12345_1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Yea belongs in a museum


It was modernized and rebuilt. Belongs in the air For quite a while still. However it would be nice to get newer platforms to complement these now. They won’t fly forever.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PDF

It has been very active recently. Interesting routes. "BURRAQ"


----------



## hassan1




----------



## FCPX

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 771974



The C-130 in silver (natural?) finish looks stunning.


----------



## GriffinsRule

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 774779


This guy was written off in 1979 when another C-130 crashed into in at Lahore AB during a engine test run. 5 of the 11 C-130 losses have been on the ground while two were lost upon landing instances.


----------



## Scorpiooo

GriffinsRule said:


> This guy was written off in 1979 when another C-130 crashed into in at Lahore AB during a engine test run. 5 of the 11 C-130 losses have been on the ground while two were lost upon landing instances.


So PAF lost 11 C130s till date ?


----------



## PDF




----------



## Scorpiooo

How long PAF will continue to use the good old C130s ? ... ultimately they have to replace them in comings decade with some ecnomical but effective options


----------



## GriffinsRule

Scorpiooo said:


> So PAF lost 11 C130s till date ?


Yep

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## PDF

PDF said:


> View attachment 775009
> 
> View attachment 775010


----------



## Beast

Scorpiooo said:


> How long PAF will continue to use the good old C130s ? ... ultimately they have to replace them in comings decade with some ecnomical but effective options


----------



## Falconless

Has the PAF ever evaluated the A400M as a replacement for the aging C130 fleet?


----------



## GriffinsRule

Falconless said:


> Has the PAF ever evaluated the A400M as a replacement for the aging C130 fleet?


It's a much more expensive aircraft


----------



## iLION12345_1

Falconless said:


> Has the PAF ever evaluated the A400M as a replacement for the aging C130 fleet?





GriffinsRule said:


> It's a much more expensive aircraft


A very good platform, but as griffin mentioned, pretty expensive too. Though if the PAF was ready to replace its fleet then it wouldn’t be out of the question, but keep in mind the C-130 and A400M are in an entirely different weight class. PAF might want to stick to the C-130s weight class and consider smaller options, though they might go for fewer A400M as an equivalent replacement (it depends on wether PAF needs numbers or capability). 
A400M is more comparable to IL-76/78.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

C390 can be good alternative for C130s


----------



## ghazi52

Kabul Airport, 
September 9, 2021

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Raja Porus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439529840609275905


----------



## Keysersoze

iLION12345_1 said:


> A very good platform, but as griffin mentioned, pretty expensive too. Though if the PAF was ready to replace its fleet then it wouldn’t be out of the question, but keep in mind the C-130 and A400M are in an entirely different weight class. PAF might want to stick to the C-130s weight class and consider smaller options, though they might go for fewer A400M as an equivalent replacement (it depends on wether PAF needs numbers or capability).
> A400M is more comparable to IL-76/78.


I hope they go for a400 in smaller allocations with possibly some KC390's but I guess It would probablt be a bit too expensive. The IL76 works well but I am dubious of its current supply chain.


----------



## iLION12345_1

Keysersoze said:


> I hope they go for a400 in smaller allocations with possibly some KC390's but I guess It would probablt be a bit too expensive. The IL76 works well but I am dubious of its current supply chain.


IL-76 has a robust supply chain if we buy from Russia. Shouldn’t be an issue. We only go to Ukraine because it’s cheaper.
A400M would be good, but it’s in the same weight class as IL-76 and not C130 which PAF would be looking to replace. A400M is also expensive, KC390 less so, so maybe that’s an option.


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

iLION12345_1 said:


> IL-76 has a robust supply chain if we buy from Russia. Shouldn’t be an issue. We only go to Ukraine because it’s cheaper.
> A400M would be good, but it’s in the same weight class as IL-76 and not C130 which PAF would be looking to replace. A400M is also expensive, KC390 less so, so maybe that’s an option.


For the PAF a mix of used and new C-130J/LM-100J would be ideal. The C390 looks good, but we have no idea how it'll perform in Pakistan's high-altitude and rough environments.

In hindsight, we shouldn't have blown a casket at Congress withholding FMF for the 8 F-16s. We could've used those funds to acquire C-130Js.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

PAF ignorance for transportation is at top, specially when we look at IAF, 
Air transportation is very important factors in quick deployment and supply chain during wars


----------



## Windjammer

PAF C-130 Creating Vortex.

Reactions: Like Like:
6 | Love Love:
1


----------



## monitor

C-130 body seems took too much stress need major upgrade. Pakistan need to buy surplus C130 from friendly nation. Bangladesh bought British c-130 J with minimum price , few probably still available.


----------



## MIRauf

monitor said:


> View attachment 779680
> 
> C-130 body seems took too much stress need major upgrade. Pakistan need to buy surplus C130 from friendly nation. Bangladesh bought British c-130 J with minimum price , few probably still available.


US approval needed, the crux of the issue related to transport fleet. Have the Infrastructure support but having trouble ( clearance to purchase new, used or surplus. )

PS: There are bush pilots that still fly DC-3s, C-130 is as rugged as them DC-3s if not better.


----------



## iLION12345_1

monitor said:


> View attachment 779680
> 
> C-130 body seems took too much stress need major upgrade. Pakistan need to buy surplus C130 from friendly nation. Bangladesh bought British c-130 J with minimum price , few probably still available.


That’s normal for an aircraft. PAF C-130s do get used alot but they are all modernized and have airframe life extensions. I’m sure PAF is looking for a replacement however. They’ll need it sooner or later.


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PDF




----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## nomi007

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> For the PAF a mix of used and new C-130J/LM-100J would be ideal. The C390 looks good, but we have no idea how it'll perform in Pakistan's high-altitude and rough environments.
> 
> In hindsight, we shouldn't have blown a casket at Congress withholding FMF for the 8 F-16s. We could've used those funds to acquire C-130Js.


Royal Air Force is retiring 14x C-130J from its services soon, which can be the best option, but maybe they will not be delivered to us due to JF-17bk3 sale.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

J 756 gulfstream G 450


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

Soaring through the sky up close view of "chacha " ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
2


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

*Allow your passion to become your purpose, and it will one day become your profession ...*
*Marvellous Aviation Art by Rabia Zakir





*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

4:04 AM · Dec 1, 2021







DGPR (AIR FORCE)

@DGPR_PAF
On this day, 01 December, 1942, the oldest squadron of PAF, No 6 ATS Squadron, nicknamed the “Antelopes”, was raised at Trinchinopoloy, as a Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron on Hawker Hurricane MK-II aircraft. The legendary squadron also participated in World War II and after 14 August, 1947, it became a part of the Royal Pakistan Air Force. The Squadron initially used Spitfire, Dakota and Bristol Freighter aircraft; and later induction of Lockheed C-130B Hercules transports aircraft in 1963, enabled the Sqn to play a formidable role in the






following PAF operations. During the 1965 war, the sqn was modified as a bomber sqn and then CAS, Air Marshal Nur Khan himself led a daring bombing mission onboard C-130 aircraft. For its participation in wars of 1948, 1965 and 1971, the Sqn was awarded with 04 battle honours.







The squadron also played a crucial role in Operation Zarb-e-Azb and Radd-ul-Fasaad where combat crew of No 6 Squadron operated in synergy with fighter elements of PAF and troops of Pak Army to strike decisive blows to the terrorists. Equipped with C-130 Hercules aircraft, which







are the backbone of all logistic support operations, the sqn has always lived up to its illustrious history of valour and bravery. Today the sqn continues to participate in logistic support, relief and other operational missions whenever called upon by PAF and the nation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

So Y20 and Y20U tankers have potentially possibilities in PAF looking at PAF more interest in western birds and our Financial limitations


----------



## ghazi52

CASA CN-235M-200

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


----------



## syed_yusuf

A day is going to come when PAF will have to replace c130 with some thing different


----------



## syed_yusuf

And that replacement will be other than c130 new variant


----------



## khail007

syed_yusuf said:


> And that replacement will be other than c130 new variant



Bro, do you have some info of the replacement?


----------



## cloud4000

syed_yusuf said:


> And that replacement will be other than c130 new variant



The US seriously needs to reconsider what it can or cannot sell to Pakistan. If India can purchase weapons from Russia, which is a Chinese ally, then I don't see any problems in selling Pakistan brand new (or even used) C-130s.


----------



## Nomad40

syed_yusuf said:


> And that replacement will be other than c130 new variant


Right now PAF is desperate for C-130s.


----------



## Imran Khan

cloud4000 said:


> The US seriously needs to reconsider what it can or cannot sell to Pakistan. If India can purchase weapons from Russia, which is a Chinese ally, then I don't see any problems in selling Pakistan brand new (or even used) C-130s.



BTW c-130s were upgraded Mar 2014 .
Pakistan did not requested any major arms sales to USA since 2015 . last orders were GRC43M Cutters Oct 30, 2014 and AH1Z Apr 6, 2015 . after the delivery issues with both these orders pakistan have self imposed ban on US major arms sales .
in last 6 years pakistan have purchased tons of major weapons like
AWACS sweden
FRIGATES china - turkey
TANKS china
RADARS china
MARITIME PATROL CRAFTS china
SUBMARINES china
ARMED DRONES china
CORVETTES turkey
LIGHT ATTACK SHIPS Romania
NAVAL SUPPORT SHIP turkey -local
NAVAL REFILING SHIP turkey -local
COASTAL DEFENSE MISSILES china
AW-139 helicopters for AF italy
AW-139 helicopters for army italy
AIRCRAFT PODS turkey
air to air MISSILES china
ANTI RADIATION MISSILES brazil
LOW FREQUENCY RADARS china
ANTI SHIP MISSILES china
TRAINING HELICOPTERS garmany
MARITIME PATROL AIRCRAFT Brazil - germany-italy
MEDIUM RANGE AIR DEFENSE MISSILES china
MI-35 CHOPPERS Russia
PATROL BOATS poland
OFFSHORE PATROL CRAFTS china
ATGM spain
DRONES turkey

non of them was requested from USA . it seems pakistani forces learnt the lesson and now went out of us camp .

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Tshering22

cloud4000 said:


> The US seriously needs to reconsider what it can or cannot sell to Pakistan. If India can purchase weapons from Russia, which is a Chinese ally, then I don't see any problems in selling Pakistan brand new (or even used) C-130s.



It isn't about comparison beyond a point. Unfortunately, the US only considers selling when they are not financing it with previously stalled allocation from the F-16 deals. Considering that quite a bit of Pakistani money is stuck from the previous F-16 deal, they will first have to iron out that cost (Pakistani members here can confirm whether they returned your money).

Pakistan at this point would be better off getting one of the following options, given that they are from neutral countries that do not come with strings attached and are within the operational requirements of the PAF conventional airlift capabilities:

*Antonov An-178's *18 Tons VS *C-130's *19 Tons







*Embraer C-390*'s much more 26 tons






Anything else is much bigger and will require greater funding allocation, namely for *Airbus A400M Atlas*, *Anotonov An-70*, *Ilyushin Il-476* (modernized), and the *Kawasaki C-2*.


----------



## Super Falcon

When we repkace our c 130 hercukes 40 yrs old


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Super Falcon said:


> When we repkace our c 130 hercukes 40 yrs old


The C-130s are good until 2025-2030. If the PAF kicks off a project to replace the C-130s, it would probably start around 2030.


----------



## Super Falcon

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The C-130s are good until 2025-2030. If the PAF kicks off a project to replace the C-130s, it would probably start around 2030.


What as u said they will retire by 2030 and start buying in 2030 do u understand 2 to three yrs needed to get then untill that soace of time with notransport aircrafts


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Super Falcon said:


> What as u said they will retire by 2030 and start buying in 2030 do u understand 2 to three yrs needed to get then untill that soace of time with notransport aircrafts


The PAF could end up using the C-130s a few years more past 2030, even if the OEM says the C-130s won't go past 2025-2030. The PAF might try a service life extension project (SLEP) that could add a few hundred hours to some airframes.

Ultimately, the issue here is limited funding (the majority of which is going to fighter-related procurement). The PAF probably won't settle its main fighter needs until 2025-2027. So, any talk of a new transport would likely start around that time and start materializing in the 2030s. I expect the PAF will seek either new C-130J-30s or Embraer C-390s. The outlay for those is around $200-250 m per aircraft (including spare parts, logistics, training, etc).

I personally think the C-390 could be a good fit. It has a heavier payload capacity than the C-130J. Embraer designed the C-390 as a tanker from the onset, so there could be a chance at swapping the Cobham AAR pods with the UPAZ pods. The aircraft also uses the same engine type as the A320 (V2500). However, it's new and unproven. The PAF isn't going to touch it until it can thoroughly test it in Pakistan. 

OTOH, the C-130J-30 is a proven beast. The saying, "only a Herc can replace a Herc" really means something as the majority of old C-130 users replaced their old aircraft with new versions. We already have a support base for the Rolls-Royce AE 2100 (via Saab 2000), giving us a starting point to take on the C-130J-30's requirements.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SaadH

Why not the obvious Y-9?


----------



## MisterSyed

SaadH said:


> Why not the obvious Y-9?


Way too Big, and not PAF type.


----------



## JPMM

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF could end up using the C-130s a few years more past 2030, even if the OEM says the C-130s won't go past 2025-2030. The PAF might try a service life extension project (SLEP) that could add a few hundred hours to some airframes.
> 
> Ultimately, the issue here is limited funding (the majority of which is going to fighter-related procurement). The PAF probably won't settle its main fighter needs until 2025-2027. So, any talk of a new transport would likely start around that time and start materializing in the 2030s. I expect the PAF will seek either new C-130J-30s or Embraer C-390s. The outlay for those is around $200-250 m per aircraft (including spare parts, logistics, training, etc).
> 
> I personally think the C-390 could be a good fit. It has a heavier payload capacity than the C-130J. Embraer designed the C-390 as a tanker from the onset, so there could be a chance at swapping the Cobham AAR pods with the UPAZ pods. The aircraft also uses the same engine type as the A320 (V2500). However, it's new and unproven. The PAF isn't going to touch it until it can thoroughly test it in Pakistan.
> 
> OTOH, the C-130J-30 is a proven beast. The saying, "only a Herc can replace a Herc" really means something as the majority of old C-130 users replaced their old aircraft with new versions. We already have a support base for the Rolls-Royce AE 2100 (via Saab 2000), giving us a starting point to take on the C-130J-30's requirements.


They will arrive here in mid-2023, then we will take it to the limits. They will land on the Madeira/Azores Islands with that Shity weather, they will land in the dusty CAR with no land support etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SQ8

JPMM said:


> They will arrive here in mid-2023, then we will take it to the limits. They will land on the Madeira/Azores Islands with that Shity weather, they will land in the dusty CAR with no land support etc.


The Js or the 390s?


----------



## JPMM

SQ8 said:


> The Js or the 390s?


C390 Millenleum, the J is more than tested all around


----------



## SQ8

JPMM said:


> C390 Millenleum, the J is more than tested all around


Are the spaniards going for it?


----------



## JPMM

SQ8 said:


> Are the spaniards going for it?


PORTUGUESE AIR FORCE will receive 5 aircraft starting in 2023, the aircraft are partialy built in PORTUGAL. The SPANISH AIR FORCE allready operate the A400M.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

JPMM said:


> PORTUGUESE AIR FORCE will receive 5 aircraft starting in 2023, the aircraft are partialy built in PORTUGAL. The SPANISH AIR FORCE allready operate the A400M.


The A-400 though is a slightly different weight class 37t payload and the 390 provides a pretty neat middle ground at 26-29t versus the J’s 20t.


----------



## Bossman

cloud4000 said:


> The US seriously needs to reconsider what it can or cannot sell to Pakistan. If India can purchase weapons from Russia, which is a Chinese ally, then I don't see any problems in selling Pakistan brand new (or even used) C-130s.


Keep your eyes and ears open.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

Wh


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The C-130s are good until 2025-2030. If the PAF kicks off a project to replace the C-130s, it would probably start around 2030.


What can be possible and practical options in that case
Why not used C130 going to retire by other forces


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

Taking a break - a duo of CN-235 rests on the tarmac of PAF Base Nur Khan, after long haul.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

Night mission

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ghessan

PAF Receives Upgraded Refueling Jet From Ukraine


Ukrainian company UkrSpecExport has successfully modernized the Ilyushin Il-78 aerial refueling aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). UkrSpecExport is




propakistani.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

Ghessan said:


> PAF Receives Upgraded Refueling Jet From Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ukrainian company UkrSpecExport has successfully modernized the Ilyushin Il-78 aerial refueling aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). UkrSpecExport is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> propakistani.pk


PAF should procure more Il78 at least 10more


----------



## MIRauf

mingle said:


> PAF should procure more Il78 at least 10more


Not sure if PAF prefers these or any more of these, likely waiting for a better alternate via different source. I would like to see PAF pick up surplus KC-135s but doubt US will release any. PAF has experience with B-707, should be able to maintain the KC-135s if ever gets cleared for them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

mingle said:


> PAF should procure more Il78 at least 10more


Seems PAF will wait for Y20U tankers to be mature.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

,.,.





,.,.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,.,.,,





,.,.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,.,.,.


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
2


----------



## ghazi52

.,..,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Two banks of the River

ghazi52 said:


> .,..,.,
> View attachment 838536


Is the cargo ramp in rear functional?


----------



## SQ8

Two banks of the River said:


> Is the cargo ramp in rear functional?


All Midas have it functional including the IAF ones. The refueling tanks are a roll on- roll off payload that plugs into the refueling system on the aircraft

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Two banks of the River

SQ8 said:


> All Midas have it functional including the IAF ones. The refueling tanks are a roll on- roll off payload that plugs into the refueling system on the aircraft


Asked because have seen pics of MP delivering items, but with the IAF ones, never saw them being used for even troop transport. The ramp is certainly there, but I think it's not functional anymore for the MKIs.


----------



## SQ8

Two banks of the River said:


> Asked because have seen pics of MP delivering items, but with the IAF ones, never saw them being used for even troop transport. The ramp is certainly there, but I think it's not *functional anymore for the MKIs.*


They might have possibly locked it in since they do use two different systems. MKI has an Israeli system versus which is locked in for refueling only. 

The MP has the roll on roll off tanks

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## razgriz19

cloud4000 said:


> The US seriously needs to reconsider what it can or cannot sell to Pakistan. If India can purchase weapons from Russia, which is a Chinese ally, then I don't see any problems in selling Pakistan brand new (or even used) C-130s.


They will sell it to us. Key word is "SELL". If Pakistan pays up front or finance it through proper channels insead of begging for a loan, they'll sell most of their weapons to us

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,.
Pakistan Air Force Heavy Metal Ilyushin Il-78MP on final approach.

©️ EK4822

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

CN-235 of PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## ghazi52

,.,.,
Vintage photo of PAF L-100 (with civil registration possibly PIA) flying over Mighty Karakorum.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,
PAF L-100 Hercules






The Lockheed L-100 Hercules is the civilian variant of the prolific C-130 Hercules military transport aircraft made by the Lockheed Corporation. Its first flight occurred in 1964. Longer L-100-20 and L-100-30 versions were developed.

L-100 production ended in 1992 with 114 aircraft delivered. An updated variant of the model, LM-100J, has completed its first flight in Marietta, Georgia on May 25, 2017, and was set to start production in 2018–19.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Raja Porus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538800525801570305

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538873089668583424

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538873089668583424


Another 50yr old aircraft. Why not the RAF C-130Js

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nomi007

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538873089668583424


50 years old junk aircrafts, I think RAF C-130J-30 will be the best option rather than to buy old airframe.


----------



## arslank03

"50 year old junk" lol PAF airframes been in service since 63, these came a decade later, have basically barely been touched, with tens of thousands of hours of life left in them and thats excluding an optional SLEP which can extend their life by another 40 years...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bossman

nomi007 said:


> 50 years old junk aircrafts, I think RAF C-130J-30 will be the best option rather than to buy old airframe.


Not Junk. PAF has mastery over the H and can literally rebuilt them from the rivet up. They don’t have that same expertise with the J. USAF is still flying older B52 and will fly them for another 30 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## iLION12345_1

GriffinsRule said:


> Another 50yr old aircraft. Why not the RAF C-130Js





nomi007 said:


> 50 years old junk aircrafts, I think RAF C-130J-30 will be the best option rather than to buy old airframe.


Do both of you really have no idea how airframes work despite having several airframes in your own Air Force that are over a decade older than these? It’s not the years that count, metal just doesn’t age sitting there, it’s the flight hours, and these likely have less flight hours than PAFs newest C-130s and likely even the British C-130Js.

Not that the C-130H models were produced from the 1960s all the way to 1996 as the H1, H2 (came in 1970s, likely original configuration of Belgian ones) and H3 configurations, with the H3 coming in the 90s. Belgian C-130s are from the 1970s but have very likely been modernized to the H3 standard, in which case they would be the most modern C-130s in PAF service. I too wish they’d have gotten the British C-130Js but with our current economic state we’re not really in the position to buy anything nice, even used aircraft.

Does anyone know how many were getting? BAF had 11 total.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JamD

iLION12345_1 said:


> Do both of you really have no idea how airframes work despite having several airframes in your own Air Force that are over a decade older than these? It’s not the years that count, metal just doesn’t age sitting there, it’s the flight hours, and these likely have less flight hours than PAFs newest C-130s and likely even the British C-130Js.
> 
> Not that the C-130H models were produced from the 1960s all the way to 1996 as the H1, H2 and H3 configurations, with the H3 coming in the 90s. Belgian C-130s are from the 1970s but have very likely been modernized to the H3 standard, in which case they would be the most modern C-130s in PAF service. I too wish they’d have gotten the British C-130Js but with our current economic state we’re not really in the position to buy anything nice, even used aircraft.
> 
> Does anyone know how many were getting? BAF had 11 total.











Belgian Air Force puts C-130 Hercules fleet on sale


The Belgian Air Force has put its fleet of Lockheed C-130 Hercules transport aircraft on sale: the nine remaining aircraft (from an initial fleet of




www.aviation24.be





They have 9. I wonder if we bought all 9. It would be a nice addition.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## iLION12345_1

JamD said:


> Belgian Air Force puts C-130 Hercules fleet on sale
> 
> 
> The Belgian Air Force has put its fleet of Lockheed C-130 Hercules transport aircraft on sale: the nine remaining aircraft (from an initial fleet of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aviation24.be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have 9. I wonder if we bought all 9. It would be a nice addition.


Their original deliveries were 12, I see 3 have been lost over time. 9 would be a very good addition, the article says they’ve been modernized too, probably to the H3 standard.

_The C-130H model has updated Allison T56-A-15 turboprops, a redesigned outer wing, updated avionics and other minor improvements. Later H models had a new, fatigue-life-improved, center wing that was retrofitted to many earlier H-models. For structural reasons, some models are required to land with reduced amounts of fuel when carrying heavy cargo, reducing usable range.The H model remains in widespread use with the United States Air Force(USAF) and many foreign air forces. Initial deliveries began in 1964 (to the RNZAF), remaining in production until 1996. An improved C-130H was introduced in 1974, with Australia purchasing 12 of type in 1978 to replace the original 12 C-130A models, which had first entered Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) service in 1958. The U.S. Coast Guard employs the HC-130H for long-range search and rescue, drug interdiction, illegal migrant patrols, homeland security, and logistics.

C-130H models produced from 1992 to 1996 were designated as C-130H3 by the USAF. The "3" denoting the third variation in design for the H series. Improvements included ring laser gyros for the INUs, GPS receivers, a partial glass cockpit (ADI and HSI instruments), a more capable APN-241 color radar, night vision device compatible instrument lighting, and an integrated radar and missile warning system. The electrical system upgrade included Generator Control Units (GCU) and Bus Switching units (BSU) to provide stable power to the more sensitive upgraded components._​

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

JamD said:


> Belgian Air Force puts C-130 Hercules fleet on sale
> 
> 
> The Belgian Air Force has put its fleet of Lockheed C-130 Hercules transport aircraft on sale: the nine remaining aircraft (from an initial fleet of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aviation24.be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have 9. I wonder if we bought all 9. It would be a nice addition.


What surprises me how did uncle sam allowed it..
Indians are very good at what they do..they would even vomplains about pakistan getting tissue paper let alone USA components

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

iLION12345_1 said:


> Do both of you really have no idea how airframes work despite having several airframes in your own Air Force that are over a decade older than these? It’s not the years that count, metal just doesn’t age sitting there, it’s the flight hours, and these likely have less flight hours than PAFs newest C-130s and likely even the British C-130Js.
> 
> Not that the C-130H models were produced from the 1960s all the way to 1996 as the H1, H2 (came in 1970s, likely original configuration of Belgian ones) and H3 configurations, with the H3 coming in the 90s. Belgian C-130s are from the 1970s but have very likely been modernized to the H3 standard, in which case they would be the most modern C-130s in PAF service. I too wish they’d have gotten the British C-130Js but with our current economic state we’re not really in the position to buy anything nice, even used aircraft.
> 
> Does anyone know how many were getting? BAF had 11 total.


Well aware of how it works thanks. I guess this is a beggars can't be choosers reality in action. And yes I would have preferred the J's over these. Regardless, PAF is desperately short on transport aircraft esp since we have lost C-130s in the recent years so any addition is welcome.



ziaulislam said:


> What surprises me how did uncle sam allowed it..
> Indians are very good at what they do..they would even vomplains about pakistan getting tissue paper let alone USA components


It wasn't really broadcast and even now the news has been broken by a spotter

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## iLION12345_1

GriffinsRule said:


> Well aware of how it works thanks. I guess this is a beggars can't be choosers reality in action. And yes I would have preferred the J's over these. Regardless, PAF is desperately short on transport aircraft esp since we have lost C-130s in the recent years so any addition is welcome.
> 
> 
> It wasn't really broadcast and even now the news has been broken by a spotter


I was posting after a long while and didn’t notice who I was replying to, would never have said that if I noticed it was you 😂
I know you’re well versed about this stuff.
Very Sorry about that.

And yeah, PAF is taking anything it gets at the moment, and it’s all welcomed honestly. Maybe they will still fit for the C130Js. Bangladesh only purchased a few of them.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Raja Porus

Will new sqn be raised?


----------



## ziaulislam

GriffinsRule said:


> Well aware of how it works thanks. I guess this is a beggars can't be choosers reality in action. And yes I would have preferred the J's over these. Regardless, PAF is desperately short on transport aircraft esp since we have lost C-130s in the recent years so any addition is welcome.
> 
> 
> It wasn't really broadcast and even now the news has been broken by a spotter


They have several spies in pakistan 
So do we
It wont take much


----------



## arslank03

JamD said:


> Belgian Air Force puts C-130 Hercules fleet on sale
> 
> 
> The Belgian Air Force has put its fleet of Lockheed C-130 Hercules transport aircraft on sale: the nine remaining aircraft (from an initial fleet of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aviation24.be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have 9. I wonder if we bought all 9. It would be a nice addition.


my guess is 7. 2 were retired very early on, 2017, so i suspect they may have had some underlying reason for that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

JamD said:


> Belgian Air Force puts C-130 Hercules fleet on sale
> 
> 
> The Belgian Air Force has put its fleet of Lockheed C-130 Hercules transport aircraft on sale: the nine remaining aircraft (from an initial fleet of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aviation24.be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have 9. I wonder if we bought all 9. It would be a nice addition.


I agree.

While new-built gear is great for the long-term, they take more time to operationalize. For the PAF, a new-gen transport aircraft is a 10-15-year program to simply activate a serviceable fleet. This is on top of the steeper fiscal cost.

If we can swell our Hercules fleet by 40-50% using lower-cost used airframes, then I'm all for it. This is the equipment that helps us shore up our defenses in wartime/standoff-footing. We won't get a new-build system for years, but we can at least get these within months.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GriffinsRule

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I agree.
> 
> While new-built gear is great for the long-term, they take more time to operationalize. For the PAF, a new-gen transport aircraft is a 10-15-year program to simply activate a serviceable fleet. This is on top of the steeper fiscal cost.
> 
> If we can swell our Hercules fleet by 40-50% using lower-cost used airframes, then I'm all for it. This is the equipment that helps us shore up our defenses in wartime/standoff-footing. We won't get a new-build system for years, but we can at least get these within months.


Yes, I've been advocating PAF buying surplus hercs for a while now. Was just hoping we would be able to get newer J variant but my guess is they will go to other NATO members or even India

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTallGuy

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

I would request a small explanation for our PDFs friends how much important is every single C-130 in PAF is.

what important role they play in deployment and in PAF operations (Wartime)

how dwindling numbers are effecting PAF wartime war readiness.

please!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Raja Porus

TheTallGuy said:


> @Bilal Khan (Quwa)
> 
> I would request a small explanation for our PDFs friends how much important is every single C-130 in PAF is.
> 
> what important role they play in deployment and in PAF operations (Wartime)
> 
> how dwindling numbers are effecting PAF wartime war readiness.
> 
> please!


Here is one of @PanzerKiel 's post. Our C130s flew 300 sorties within 3 days to airlift 2 inf bdes. Remarkable, isn't it? Two bdes were first mobilised and then airlifted, also speaks volumes about the intel network
Perhaps Asif Ghafoor rightly said that " you won't be able to surprise us".



PanzerKiel said:


> There are different levels of alert. Int agencies work tirelessly to keep our soldiers informed of enemy movements. Let me quote you an example.
> 
> Last time Indian army planned, and were about to conduct, a conventional attack in this area
> 
> ..... They inducted 6 Mountain Division by air within about a week. Of course they faced a shortage of accommodation for the almost 10, 000 troops that arrived from nowhere. This airlift was remarkable enough.
> 
> As per Indian accounts, Pakistan staged a more remarkable airlift. 300 C130 sorties were flown within 3 days to bring in two extra brigades into FCNA which altered the attack ratio enough to force Indians to postpone and then cancel their attack a few hours before it was about to be launched.
> 
> Such was... Once upon a time in the month of February...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Behind the CeaseFireLine (CFL) ......
> 
> 
> Churchills secret army in AJK? I was just thinking about this the other day. I think AJK government needs to focus on raising it's own defence force. The infrastructure could also be used to train irregulars to cross the border and support an insurgency. Yeah, that option is always there...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may like to appreciate our intelligence work... I mean, 6 Mountain Division must have been picked up once troops were being recalled, being equipped, driven to the airbase for airlift, then it took six more days for it to be fully concentrated in 15 Corps area.
> 
> As it happens, normally one day of superb output may have years of intelligence and planning behind it..
> 
> Israeli devastating air attack in the opening of 67 war had 13 years of planning and int gathering behind it....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Behind the CeaseFireLine (CFL) ......
> 
> 
> Churchills secret army in AJK? I was just thinking about this the other day. I think AJK government needs to focus on raising it's own defence force. The infrastructure could also be used to train irregulars to cross the border and support an insurgency. Yeah, that option is always there...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
3


----------



## farooqbhai007

CH-09 also appears to have been repainted according to the source who pointed out the first CH-12 aircraft. So this is 2nd aircraft ready for delivery.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## HRK

farooqbhai007 said:


> CH-09 also appears to have been repainted according to the source who pointed out the first CH-12 aircraft. So this is 2nd aircraft ready for delivery.
> View attachment 856210


any idea how many more C-130 are we getting ???


----------



## farooqbhai007

HRK said:


> any idea how many more C-130 are we getting ???


Requirment is for 8 new C130s with PAF so we should be getting 8 C130s in working condition from Belgium (& from other nations if they sell us ) , rest C130s if purchased would be for spares.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## iLION12345_1

farooqbhai007 said:


> Requirment is for 8 new C130s with PAF so we should be getting 8 C130s in working condition from Belgium (& from other nations if they sell us ) , rest C130s if purchased would be for spares.


Belgium only has a possible 7 in working condition. 3 out of the original 12 we’re lost and 2 were retired quite a while back.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## farooqbhai007

iLION12345_1 said:


> Belgium only has a possible 7 in working condition. 3 out of the original 12 we’re lost and 2 were retired quite a while back.


One of the losses was replaced with 2nd hand USAF C130, so they had total 13 C130s including the lost one and its replacement.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## emotionless_teenage

Any plan to upgrade the entire fleet with NP2000 propeller?


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,
Recently upgraded and refurbished Pakistan Air Force Il-78MP aerial refueller and strategic airlifter, by Ukraine. It was able to fly back to Pakistan from Ukraine just weeks before the war broke out.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistan Ka Beta

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539353363166404611



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539542245065498626



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540969777102995456


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545301411273084929

















Monthly Defense News Recap – June 2022


The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is to receive another batch of J-10CEs, while the Pakistan Navy (PN) inducted its second Type-054A/P or Tughril-class frigate. However, while new Chinese systems headli...




quwa.org


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,
ACE of PAF​
*PAF ACQUIRES AIRBUS A319*

The Pakistan Air Force has acquired a single Airbus A319-112 medium-range narrow body airliner (current registration: LY-TKT, built in 1999) from Avion Express of Lithuania.

The aircraft arrived in Pakistan three days ago.
The Air Force’s final plans for the plane are currently unknown, but the aircraft will be used for multirole limited Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR), utility, transport and medevac roles as well as Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HADR) and Signals & Electronic Intelligence (SIGINT & ELINT) missions.

There were earlier rumours that the PAF intends to convert the aircraft into an aerial tanker for mid-air refuelling as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


----------



## air marshal

*NEW BIRD FOR PAF   
















Pakistan Air Force Airbus A319-112 - Photo by Tahir Sultan - Falcons.PK







falcons.pk




*

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1


----------



## mingle

air marshal said:


> *NEW BIRD FOR PAF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan Air Force Airbus A319-112 - Photo by Tahir Sultan - Falcons.PK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> falcons.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Could be a new refueler


----------



## HRK

mingle said:


> Could be a new refueler


probably special purpose aircraft for SIGINT/ELINT

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zephyrus

HRK said:


> probably special purpose aircraft for SIGINT/ELINT


It is nothing of the sort.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRK

Zephyrus said:


> It is nothing of the sort.


obviously not in current configuration but probably after conversion ???

Or are you suggesting that it will used for VIP duties ??


----------



## Zephyrus

HRK said:


> obviously not in current configuration but probably after conversion ???
> 
> Or are you suggesting that it will used for VIP duties ??


I never implied that will be used for vip duties but sir I suggest you keep your expectations very low with this acquisition. 😅😅

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

,..,
Pakistan Air Force Airbus A319 was observed flying using (PAF) Call Sign "PAF1102" with serial number A-1102 applied on it.
©️ Tahir Sultan-Falcons.PK

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal

Pakistan Air Force Airbus A319-112 - Photo by SalmanFalconsPK - Falcons.PK







falcons.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistan Ka Beta

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,
> ACE of PAF​
> *PAF ACQUIRES AIRBUS A319*
> 
> The Pakistan Air Force has acquired a single Airbus A319-112 medium-range narrow body airliner (current registration: LY-TKT, built in 1999) from Avion Express of Lithuania.
> 
> The aircraft arrived in Pakistan three days ago.
> The Air Force’s final plans for the plane are currently unknown, but the aircraft will be used for multirole limited Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR), utility, transport and medevac roles as well as Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HADR) and Signals & Electronic Intelligence (SIGINT & ELINT) missions.
> 
> There were earlier rumours that the PAF intends to convert the aircraft into an aerial tanker for mid-air refuelling as well.


link n source 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549662486302949376


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549361640335761408




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549361651605962752




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549472200037736449


----------



## Pakistan Ka Beta

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552621462250573825



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551599647277342721



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552711417609986049



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553048114113654784




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553052838904881153





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552678180603002883

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GriffinsRule

Might as well pick these up too.
What a world it wouldve been had we invested early on with the Brazilians in the C-390 platform. Not like we didnt know C-130s would need to go sooner or later.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

GriffinsRule said:


> Might as well pick these up too.
> What a world it wouldve been had we invested early on with the Brazilians in the C-390 platform. Not like we didnt know C-130s would need to go sooner or later.
> 
> 
> View attachment 866250
> 
> 
> View attachment 866258
> 
> View attachment 866261


The PAF's interest in the C-390 will depend a lot on the latter's hot-and-high performance. I'd love to see Embraer run some tests within Pakistan itself (not specifically for the PAF, but other countries too as our conditions can be pretty tough). OTOH, and it'd be pretty random, but the PN could be a dark horse candidate for the C-390.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## arslank03

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF's interest in the C-390 will depend a lot on the latter's hot-and-high performance. I'd love to see Embraer run some tests within Pakistan itself (not specifically for the PAF, but other countries too as our conditions can be pretty tough). OTOH, and it'd be pretty random, but the PN could be a dark horse candidate for the C-390.


realistically, we have no option but to go for the c390 eventually. There isnt anything else available rn. India not buying Embraer was such a blessing, otherwise then we'd be royally fucked. Though, now i wonder why we didnt approach Italy for their J's

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF's interest in the C-390 will depend a lot on the latter's hot-and-high performance. I'd love to see Embraer run some tests within Pakistan itself (not specifically for the PAF, but other countries too as our conditions can be pretty tough). OTOH, and it'd be pretty random, but the PN could be a dark horse candidate for the C-390.


Pakistan's geography is not that unique but we tend to make a bigger deal of it then it actually is. Lots of countries operate in similar or harsher climates already.
I also think C-390 will actually out-perform a turboprop in most instances. In the long terms all these used C-130 acquisitions are truly stopgap purchases. We will have to replace them in the next 15-20 years, and that is not a very long time tbh (esp since we are not buying newer J airframes.)
I think PN has already tied its future to the Embraer jet for the future MPA. They have no requirement for a C-390 or any other transport aircraft, and even if needed can charter or use PAF assets.


----------



## ghazi52

,.,.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

Pakistan bought 7 C-130H military transport aircraft retired by Belgium .

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## emotionless_teenage

arslank03 said:


> realistically, we have no option but to go for the c390 eventually. There isnt anything else available rn. India not buying Embraer was such a blessing, otherwise then we'd be royally fucked. Though, now i wonder why we didnt approach Italy for their J's


Different engine and propeller design especially if you want to streamline plane type.

About the only similarities between older pre J models and J model are the airframe. Inside it's all different, Similar to how AW159 is wholly different than even the previous Super Lynx despite similar outward appearances

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistan Ka Beta

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555246076281733121




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555478340492042241




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554437448599588865



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554437448599588865





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552937868208705536







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553052838904881153

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

PAF 4479

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

..,

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## arslank03

has anyone noticed this C130 has additional VHF antennae

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bossman

arslank03 said:


> View attachment 869293
> 
> 
> 
> has anyone noticed this C130 has additional VHF antennae


Because it is used for Elint. Known fact.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

.,.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


----------



## ghazi52

_,..,.,



_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

,.,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

Taking rest in Turkey Exercise..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khail007

Bristol Freighter/Herks and No.6 SQ - never ending love.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

II-78..

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564979327942492161

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

,.,.,.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## CLUMSY

I wonder if we will ever end up buying the chinese y20. Seems pretty good for transporting stuff such as artillery and tanks. Can be used for large scale airborne operations too. C130s are good but having something heavier along with it doesnt hurt.


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,
Ex-Belgian Air Force C-130 Hercules In Pakistan Air Force Colors. 
Pakistan Air Force Has Acquired All Seven Ex-Belgian AF C-130's.

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1


----------



## syed_yusuf

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,
> Ex-Belgian Air Force C-130 Hercules In Pakistan Air Force Colors.
> Pakistan Air Force Has Acquired All Seven Ex-Belgian AF C-130's.
> 
> View attachment 879317


not all 7 delivered yet ..


----------



## Rahil khan

FOOLS_NIGHTMARE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564979327942492161


Rest in peace to the eardrums. These nasty Russian engines are nightmare for housing colonies near airport.


----------



## CLUMSY

Cargo planes are an absolute nightmare to fly in without ear protection. Have flown in them a few times.


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

PAF IL-78M at Istanbul Airport

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Just one more case of why the Embraer C-390 is probably a good option for the PAF in the future.






Embraer and L3 are teaming up to configure a refueling boom to the C-390. So, basically, you'd get a complete solution (boom and hose/drogue) all in one platform that can also double as a tactical transport.

Granted, I'm not sure if boom-configured planes can work as transports, but you do simplify your logistics and maintenance chain by maintaining one type for both airlift and refueling. Couple that with the fact that the C-390 uses airliner engines for added efficiency, cost control and maintainability.

For the PAF, the C-130B/E/Hs aren't going anywhere, but at this point, I think they can start looking at the C-390 in the tanker role. Look at an initial batch of 6-8 aircraft equipped with both the boom and the hose/drogue pods. @GriffinsRule @Yasser76 @arslank03 









KC-390 With A Boom Could Be The Agile Tanker The Air Force Needs


A modified version of the Brazilian KC-390 could bring fuel forward to austere airstrips and thirsty fighters on edge of enemy airspace.




www.thedrive.com

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GriffinsRule

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Just one more case of why the Embraer C-390 is probably a good option for the PAF in the future.
> 
> View attachment 881786
> 
> 
> Embraer and L3 are teaming up to configure a refueling boom to the C-390. So, basically, you'd get a complete solution (boom and hose/drogue) all in one platform that can also double as a tactical transport.
> 
> Granted, I'm not sure if boom-configured planes can work as transports, but you do simplify your logistics and maintenance chain by maintaining one type for both airlift and refueling. Couple that with the fact that the C-390 uses airliner engines for added efficiency, cost control and maintainability.
> 
> For the PAF, the C-130B/E/Hs aren't going anywhere, but at this point, I think they can start looking at the C-390 in the tanker role. Look at an initial batch of 6-8 aircraft equipped with both the boom and the hose/drogue pods. @GriffinsRule @Yasser76 @arslank03
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KC-390 With A Boom Could Be The Agile Tanker The Air Force Needs
> 
> 
> A modified version of the Brazilian KC-390 could bring fuel forward to austere airstrips and thirsty fighters on edge of enemy airspace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com


I think PAF has bought itself a decade before it will even look at options to supplement with Hercs, after the recent used ones we bought. 
I think they should also wait and see if Saudis go for it in large numbers as well and might get some local maintenance setup PAF could use down the line. 
The crux really will be how much capital expenditure can they really afford for non-essential items with the focus being to induct new fighter jets atm.


----------



## fatman17

air marshal said:


>


Because of the loud engine noise these aircraft are not allowed to land on certain airports of Europe.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Yasser76

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Just one more case of why the Embraer C-390 is probably a good option for the PAF in the future.
> 
> View attachment 881786
> 
> 
> Embraer and L3 are teaming up to configure a refueling boom to the C-390. So, basically, you'd get a complete solution (boom and hose/drogue) all in one platform that can also double as a tactical transport.
> 
> Granted, I'm not sure if boom-configured planes can work as transports, but you do simplify your logistics and maintenance chain by maintaining one type for both airlift and refueling. Couple that with the fact that the C-390 uses airliner engines for added efficiency, cost control and maintainability.
> 
> For the PAF, the C-130B/E/Hs aren't going anywhere, but at this point, I think they can start looking at the C-390 in the tanker role. Look at an initial batch of 6-8 aircraft equipped with both the boom and the hose/drogue pods. @GriffinsRule @Yasser76 @arslank03
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KC-390 With A Boom Could Be The Agile Tanker The Air Force Needs
> 
> 
> A modified version of the Brazilian KC-390 could bring fuel forward to austere airstrips and thirsty fighters on edge of enemy airspace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



Definately interesting and a good ITAR free option, and certainly if we are going with Brazilian MPA jets then why not transports, but a few opinions here

1) Is it worth investing on boom refueling tech as when these are delivered (assume what 3 yeas if we order tomorrow?), how many years will we have in an F-16 fleet which numbers just 75 planes and already has decent range?

2) As we know many C-130 trips are to spartan areas, unsure how good C-390 is here

3) Boom tech is done by L3, US company so we can be denied this

4) Certainly room for rationalisation of PAF fleet here, apart from C-130 we are operation very small fleet of different types, one look the apron at Chaklala and it looks like an international airport (4 C-235s, 4 IL76, 4 Y-12s etc, 4 Transport SAAB 2000), all this on top of a varied VIP fleet of 4-5 different types (Gulfstream, Phenom, A319 etc). Bit of a mess.....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CLUMSY

The c390 seems very good. Even one or two are going to be good enough. F16s cant refuel on current il78s afaik. Would be very beneficial.


----------



## Yasser76

CLUMSY said:


> The c390 seems very good. Even one or two are going to be good enough. F16s cant refuel on current il78s afaik. Would be very beneficial.



One or two does not give you a capability. We would need 4 minimum.


----------



## CSAW

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575331742134816769

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ghazi52

.,,.
Airbus A319-112 [Reg: A-1102] spotted in PAF colors..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## air marshal




----------



## Zephyrus

If wishes were horses.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## air marshal




----------



## monitor

UK Ministry of Defense has added the RAF C-130J fleet of 14 military transport planes to its list of military equipment that will be made available for sale through the Defence Equipment Sales Authority (DESA) from 2023

More option for Pakistan Bangladesh to replacing old C-130 .😀

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586213329215049728


----------



## Ali_Baba

FOOLS_NIGHTMARE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586213329215049728



If the UK cannot afford to operate these advanced variants where it has all the infrastructure and people to operate them alongside the A400M's - then how can Pakistan afford to ?? Earlier H models - etc - i get - but the J's are a different and more expensive breed.

If anything - I see India more likely picking these up and not Pakistan given the commonality with their existing C130J fleet ..


----------



## ghazi52

L-100 ...


----------



## nomi007

FOOLS_NIGHTMARE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586213329215049728


Sadly now UK Pm is an Indian origin man,


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,
PAF Hercules at Bahrain Intl Air Show 2022. 
Nothing happens without the Air Mobility Boyz!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

Pakistan Air Force's new A-319 Multirole Air Mobility Aircraft..


----------



## ghazi52

.,.,
Pakistan Air Force - Harbin Y-12 II [Reg: V-4106] spotted near PAF Base Nur Khan Rawalpindi.


----------



## ghazi52

..,
Throwback: Pakistan Air Force - Lockheed C-130E Hercules, with Registration: 10689, photographed at München-Riem, Germany in 1979, wearing the Imperial Iranian Air Force livery.


----------



## ghazi52




----------



## Horse_Rider

GriffinsRule said:


> I think PAF has bought itself a decade before it will even look at options to supplement with Hercs, after the recent used ones we bought.
> I think they should also wait and see if Saudis go for it in large numbers as well and might get some local maintenance setup PAF could use down the line.
> The crux really will be how much capital expenditure can they really afford for non-essential items with the focus being to induct new fighter jets atm.



Saudis won't go for C-130's. More like Galaxy's. I also heard they were interested in Y-20 from China. Expect some defense deals beyond the drones in KSA-China in the years to come, probably starting from Y-20. Pakistan should pick up the British one's also.


----------



## GriffinsRule

Horse_Rider said:


> Saudis won't go for C-130's. More like Galaxy's. I also heard they were interested in Y-20 from China. Expect some defense deals beyond the drones in KSA-China in the years to come, probably starting from Y-20. Pakistan should pick up the British one's also.


They will go for the Embraer potentially. If they retire their H models, PAF might be able to pick some, but who knows

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

No funds allocation in this area by PAF , its low priority area for PAF


----------



## ghazi52

.,,..


----------



## ghazi52

GB


----------



## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

Pakistan Air Force Transport Fleet


----------



## Zephyrus

So it seems that PAF has recently acquired another PA46.


----------



## ghazi52

.,,..,
Wing Commander AKS "Tich" Ahmad shaheed. One of the pioneering transport pilots of PAF.







He was commanding No 6 Squadron based at Lahore when he took off in a Bristol Freighter with 18 souls on board for a bombing training mission at Jamrud range. Destination was to be Peshawar Airfield. Also on board was S/L Shahzada OC Admin Wing Lahore and another officer who were actually booked on another freighter which went via Chaklala but they chose to travel in this one due to shorter leg.

They never reached Peshawar as aircraft crashed near Khewra with everyone on board killed. Freighter involved was Sr no G783. Aircraft had entered a high speed stall, It was first major fatal accident involving any PAF aircraft. May all souls rest in peace. Crash date 26th August 1952.


----------



## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

Different Shades of grey!

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## ghazi52

,..,,.

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Wolfhunter

FOOLS_NIGHTMARE said:


> Different Shades of grey!


A video for all the Hercy lovers on PDF:






Footage of the Experimental C130y - the ancestor of the Combat Talon. 

😊


----------

