# Afghans flee shelling from Pakistan: official, witnesses



## Bond

KUNAR: A barrage of cross-border artillery and rocket attacks from Pakistan have forced thousands of Afghan villagers to flee their homes, witnesses and officials in Afghanistan said Tuesday.

The shelling was reported in eastern Kunar province after Pakistan accused Afghanistan of giving safe haven to militants who infiltrated the border to kill 13 Pakistani soldiers.

More than 500 families have been displaced in two districts of Dangam and Nari due to continued Pakistani rocket shelling in the past two weeks, said Wasefullah Wasef, a spokesman for the provincial government in Kunar.

Afghan families are large and typically number seven to 10 people.
The shelling has intensified after the recent incident in which some Pakistani soldiers were killed by Taliban militants, Wasef told AFP.

Wasef said officials believe the rockets were fired by Pakistani troops, who are operating along the border against homegrown insurgents.

The Pakistani military was not immediately reachable for comment.
Locals in Dangam district told AFP that three residents, including a woman, were injured on Tuesday after rockets fired from Pakistan slammed into a home.

Many people have already left their homes in the past two weeks. We have stayed, but we cannot venture out of our hiding places because of the continued shelling, a local resident told AFP.
We are poor people, we demand the government take action to protect us, added another resident, Abdul Qader.

Pakistan said 13 soldiers were killed after militants crossed from Afghanistan into the northwestern district of Upper Dir, a key transit route that neighbours the Swat valley where Pakistan defeated a Taliban insurgency in 2009.

Six were killed in gunbattles on Sunday and another seven were beheaded after going missing, the military said.

The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack.
On Monday, Pakistan summoned the deputy Afghan ambassador in protest and to demand that Kabul take appropriate measures to stop incidents in the future.
Pakistan says rebels have regrouped in eastern Afghanistan.

Its troops have been fighting local Taliban for years but US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has warned that Washington is running out of patience over Pakistani havens for militants who attack Americans in Afghanistan.

Islamabad imposed a blockade, now in its seventh month, on overland NATO supplies into Afghanistan since US air strikes killed 24 Pakistani soldiers along the Afghan border on November 26.

Afghans flee shelling from Pakistan: official, witnesses &#8211; The Express Tribune

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## Wright

It seems a two front war is possible. They are shelling Nato on one side, and India on the other.


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## karan.1970

Are these smart artillary shells that ensure that they bypass the innocent Afghan civilians and only kill the TTP terrorists hiding in Afghan Border areas. I am sure they are because if they are not, it makes Pakistan's daily wails against drone attacks killing innocent Pakistani civilians just a load of high quality BS

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## RazPaK

Good. Kill the TTP scum, where ever they hide.

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## Imran Khan

wow nice guys use 203mm shells please

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## Gandhi G in da house

Looks like Pakistan has become a little too trigger happy recently . I hope the NATO and Afghans don't decide to give it back . USA is particularly known to break all laws and considerations of proportionality .


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## karan.1970

RazPaK said:


> Good. Kill the TTP scum, where ever they hide.



Are civilians acceptable Collateral damage ?


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## RazPaK

karan.1970 said:


> Are civilians acceptable Collateral damage ?



It happens in war.

It is a great sacrifice to rid the world of this menace once and for all.

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## Imran Khan

karan.1970 said:


> Are civilians acceptable Collateral damage ?


 
in recent days from otherside of border taliban attacked pakistan and killed our 50+ solders what else you need ? are not drones enough already ? 

i hope pakistan use air force to bomb border regions and clear them from taliban

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## Irfan Baloch

karan.1970 said:


> Are civilians acceptable Collateral damage ?



what do you think?

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## RazPaK

Imran Khan said:


> in recent days from otherside of border taliban attacked pakistan and killed our 50+ solders what else you need ? are not drones enough already ?
> 
> i hope pakistan use air force to bomb border regions and clear them from taliban



If NATO and the ANA won't take care of it, I'm sure Pakistan will kindly oblige.

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## Imran Khan

nick_indian said:


> Looks like Pakistan has become a little too trigger happy recently . I hope the NATO and Afghans don't decide to give it back . USA is particularly known to break all laws and considerations of proportionality .



ahahahahaha 

*Keep Rolling , Quit Trolling*



RazPaK said:


> If NATO and the ANA won't take care of it, I'm sure Pakistan will kindly oblige.



they shelter them for keep pakistan in war busy and drag pak in bloody WOT . tell me why china is not in WOT even they have border with afgh ?

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## Bond

RazPaK said:


> *It happens in war.*
> 
> It is a great sacrifice to rid the world of this menace once and for all.



Good then. You should not be cribbing about collateral damage during drone attacks in Pakistan. It is a WAR too.

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## A.Muqeet khan

yeah is that why we go all gaga when our civilians are killed by drones like for some one else what u like for ur own self


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## RazPaK

Bond said:


> Good then. You should not be cribbing about collateral damage during drone attacks in Pakistan. It is a WAR too.



If that is how playing field is then it should be leveled. Pakistan should start bombing the Afghan border region.

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## Darth Vader

typcl indian crap mentlty when us drone attacks and kill some clvn and now when ttp are attacking from afg then they can kill but we cant fire back 
u indians are suck 
if al qaeda is a terrorist orgnz same goes for ttp ok now just sht the F Up why em using harsh words cz u guys always blame pakistan and whole pakistan is wrong go and get so fCkn knowledge ur so called friend UNCle sam was the 1 one who created and talibans in war agnst russia now they are bad guys i fully support wht pakistan army is doing if ttp kills our 1 soldier we shold kill 100 of them
if they kill 10 we shd kill 1000 and we must attack in afg if they are hiding some where inside in afg cz if it gives the right to us to defend itself same goes for every other country if they can do we can do it 
and by the way we india and pakistan never will be friends cz u cant be any 1 friends are u not loyal to any 1 not even to ur self ur just a greedy nation who are just bunch of some cowards

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## Fazlu

RazPaK said:


> It happens in war.
> 
> It is a great sacrifice to rid the world of this menace once and for all.


 
So, do you accept American drone strikes on Pakistani civilians ? After all, they are looking for terrorists too.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Imran Khan said:


> ahahahahaha
> 
> *Keep Rolling , Quit Trolling*
> 
> 
> 
> they shelter them for keep pakistan in war busy and drag pak in bloody WOT . Tell me why China is not in WOT even they have border with afgh ?



You don't agree with me does not mean I am trolling .It could actually happen . They may respond . Could lead to something like Salala again .


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## Rajaraja Chola

RazPaK said:


> If that is how playing field is then it should be leveled. Pakistan should start bombing the Afghan border region.



The matter is pakistan have everything concentrated in eastern sector... It has negligible interference in western... If an Indian drone or ac enter, pakistan can immediately enter...
The fact the drones have entered and killed at will, proves, pakistan defence is very negligible at western theatre..
It needs new radars, and ac squadrons responsible for western regions...


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## karan.1970

RazPaK said:


> It happens in war.
> 
> It is a great sacrifice to rid the world of this menace once and for all.



Remember that when you cry a river next time against a drone strike in Waziristan

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## TOPGUN

Where terrorist are we shall kill.. simply they come from Afghanistan to Pakistan to destroy our way of life we took a stand nothing is wrong with it peroid stop the trolling on the thread.

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## sachin@india

karan.1970 said:


> Remember that when you cry a river next time against a drone strike in Waziristan



drone is a outdated topic nowadays...

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## karan.1970

Irfan Baloch said:


> what do you think?



I say they are.. Whether they are in Afghan border areas or in Pakistan's tribal belt. Hence I support these attacks by Pakistan in Afghanistan as well as the drone attacks/special op hits by NATO in Pakistan.

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## Imran Khan

karan.1970 said:


> Remember that when you cry a river next time against a drone strike in Waziristan



remember you guys forget it when NATO-US invaded AFG in 2001 and civilians was killed like vegetables you indians are behaving so hypocrite these days sorry to say

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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> Are civilians acceptable Collateral damage ?



As Irfan said we would like to know about your opinion on this issue.


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## Wet Shirt Contest

Fazlu said:


> So, do you accept American drone strikes on Pakistani civilians ? After all, they are looking for terrorists too.



It's there Double Standards Mate! What Goes around Comes around
Goodday

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## Fazlu

An honest question :

Would increased aggression towards Afghanistan result in renewed calls for pashtunistan ?


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## TaimiKhan

Indians ...............

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## Areesh

Fazlu said:


> An honest question :
> 
> Would increased aggression towards Afghanistan result in renewed calls for pashtunistan ?



Nope. The soldiers bombing Afghanistan might be Pushtoons themselves.



TaimiKhan said:


> Indians ...............



These are the same people who were asking the sissy and coward Manmohan Singh to bomb Pakistan and teach them a lesson after losing two soldiers in a skirmish at LOC last week. Hypocrites.

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## Don Jaguar

TaimiKhan said:


> Indians ...............



That's also counted in insult.

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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> As Irfan said we would like to know about your opinion on this issue.



Asked and answered..


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## Fazlu

Areesh said:


> Nope. The soldiers bombing Afghanistan might be Pushtoons themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> These are the same people who were asking the sissy and coward Manmohan Singh to bomb Pakistan and teach them a lesson after losing two soldiers in a skirmish at LOC last week. Hypocrites.


 
Isn't there a prevailing issue of pashtuns in tribal areas refusing to receive bodies of slain officers/jawans following a directive from militant propaganda wings ?


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## Imran Khan

i never seen an india open thread on nato air raid kills afghan civilians .and its happen 100s times 

if pakistan fired few shells and even not a single confirm death recorded they bring raam leela story and crocodile tears

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## Areesh

Fazlu said:


> Isn't there a prevailing issue of pashtuns in tribal areas refusing to receive bodies of slain officers/jawans following a directive from militant propaganda wings ?



It has nothing to do with Pushtoonistan issue.


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## Imran Khan

Fazlu said:


> Isn't there a prevailing issue of pashtuns in tribal areas refusing to receive bodies of slain officers/jawans following a directive from militant propaganda wings ?



i love the way indians trolling behind innocent questions

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## Don Jaguar

karan.1970 said:


> Moderators .....



Infractions......


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## Fazlu

Imran Khan said:


> i love the way indians trolling behind innocent questions


 
I'm sorry, please tell me how you define a troll question ?


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## Imran Khan

Fazlu said:


> I'm sorry, please tell me how you define a troll question ?



what you guys wanna say you guys wrote it and at the end you use ? this question mark . i note it 100s times now a days .

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## Wet Shirt Contest

Imran Khan said:


> i never seen an india open thread on nato air raid kills afghan civilians .and its happen 100s times
> 
> if pakistan fired few shells and even not a single confirm death recorded they bring raam leela story and crocodile tears



watched documentary on wikileaks!
sure US and NATO are not angels....but lets not start a Mud slugging contest


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## Icarus

(Amended)WTF Kunnar doesn't even share a physical boundary with Upper Dir that is covered by artillery placements! More Bullshit from the Afghans!

Afghan Side: 






Pakistan Side:

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## K-Xeroid

karan.1970 said:


> Are civilians acceptable Collateral damage ?


Have tolerated a lot, and everyone is well aware of our showdown techniques. bomb down each and every house where terrorists are hiding, its time to wipe out this whole proxy created by foriegners.


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## Don Jaguar

Icarus said:


> WTF Kunnar doesn't even share a physical boundary with Dir! More Bullshit from the Afghans!
> 
> Afghan Side:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan Side:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dir connects to Nooristan.



Well sir Dir and Kunar are bordering areas.

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## Pukhtoon

^^^ Kunar do have a boundry with DIR and the place called Barawal...I was there in Feb this year..

Talked to a local about the attack in which our 40 army jawans got shahadat... And those people came to rescue the army but army stopped them..And later the back up for the army came but late...

This is for the third time they are attacking this area from Kunar. Nato leave this place and leaved there artilry there when they were leaving Kunar ..you can search on youtube. Which clearly shows that they are supporting Those MF there...

What Pakistan need is just just droping few bombs from F16 ... Thats the only way...

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## Icarus

Don Jaguar said:


> Well sir Dir and Kunar are bordering areas.




That's Dir Lower that you are talking about, Upper Dir shares a tiny corridor that isn't covered by artillery placements.

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## TaimiKhan

Imran Khan said:


> i never seen an india open thread on nato air raid kills afghan civilians .and its happen 100s times
> 
> if pakistan fired few shells and even not a single confirm death recorded they bring raam leela story and crocodile tears



That is how Indians operate, the reason of my first post in the thread. As i say, we can never be friends, just like we hate them, they hate us much more then that. 

I was amazed to see one of the Indian members who does nothing on the forum other then on daily basis be the first to copy and paste terror incidents happening in Pakistan, that shows their obsession with Pakistan. 


Anyway on the topic, PA if it did the act should try to get intel on the enemy locations and then start targeting them, blind shelling is not the way. Use recon planes, drones, spot the base camps being run under ANA/ANP/US protection, then use PGMs on them and kill as many as possible, injuring or taking normal Afghan peoples lives is not the right way, they have already suffered alot and still suffering with NATO/US having left them. 

And i am highly doubting the Afghan version of the story as PA has no rocket artillery system in the tribal area, they only have normal canon artillery pieces, no rocket artillery. Most probably Taliban since having rockets are doing the act so that the blame comes on PA and they can get the sympathy of the locals.



Imran Khan said:


> i never seen an india open thread on nato air raid kills afghan civilians .and its happen 100s times
> 
> if pakistan fired few shells and even not a single confirm death recorded they bring raam leela story and crocodile tears



That is how Indians operate, the reason of my first post in the thread. As i say, we can never be friends, just like we hate them, they hate us much more then that. 

I was amazed to see one of the Indian members who does nothing on the forum other then on daily basis be the first to copy and paste terror incidents happening in Pakistan, that shows their obsession with Pakistan. 


Anyway on the topic, PA if it did the act should try to get intel on the enemy locations and then start targeting them, blind shelling is not the way. Use recon planes, drones, spot the base camps being run under ANA/ANP/US protection, then use PGMs on them and kill as many as possible, injuring or taking normal Afghan peoples lives is not the right way, they have already suffered alot and still suffering with NATO/US having left them. 

And i am highly doubting the Afghan version of the story as PA has no rocket artillery system in the tribal area, they only have normal canon artillery pieces, no rocket artillery. Most probably Taliban since having rockets are doing the act so that the blame comes on PA and they can get the sympathy of the locals.

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## Lonely Hermit

self delete


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## ziaulislam

karan.1970 said:


> Are civilians acceptable Collateral damage ?


why are afghan quiet on drones? and weeping on shelling?

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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> I say they are.. Whether they are in Afghan border areas or in Pakistan's tribal belt. Hence I support these attacks by Pakistan in Afghanistan as well as the drone attacks/special op hits by NATO in Pakistan.



Let's see. We even doubt this story is true. Afghan administration is a big a liar as are some of their "friends" who don't even share a border with them. 

We Pakistanis condemn civilian damage in any case and that's why we want our reaction to be limited and precise attacking training camps unlike a drone attacking markets and places of worship.

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## Lonely Hermit

> Imran Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> wow nice guys use 203mm shells please
Click to expand...

Are there 203mm shells?
i thought maximum size in modern artillery was till 155mm?


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## ziaulislam

Fazlu said:


> Isn't there a prevailing issue of pashtuns in tribal areas refusing to receive bodies of slain officers/jawans following a directive from militant propaganda wings ?


nope never heard of it.......


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## roshangjha

Don Jaguar said:


> That's also counted in insult.



Indians.

**** (Pakistanis)

Guess which word is banned on MANY websites including this? 



@Indians - Let's not talk of civilian casualties till there are any confirmed reports.


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## Imran Khan

Lonely Hermit said:


> Are there 203mm shells?
> i thought maximum size in modern artillery was till 155mm?



you forget it ?

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## Caine

Areesh said:


> Let's see. We even doubt this story is true. Afghan administration is a big a liar as are some of their "friends" who don't even share a border with them.
> 
> *We Pakistanis condemn civilian damage in any case and that's why we want our reaction to be limited and precise attacking training camps unlike a drone attacking markets and places of worship*.



Thats not what last few pages reflect.. But anyway, you are entitled to your opinion as am I.. 

I agree with Karan.1970 here. Terrorists, where ever they are need to be targeted. There are some civilian deaths that take place, but thats acceptable collateral damage, as not killing the terrorists, will result in many times more civilian deaths as we are seeing regularly in Pakistan itself.

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## Areesh

Caine said:


> Thats not what last few pages reflect.. But anyway, you are entitled to your opinion as am I..



Most Pakistanis are against civilian killings. Anyways the news looks a bit unauthentic.

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## Lonely Hermit

> Imran Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> you forget it ?
Click to expand...

Impressive i just did a Google search the system are old 1950's and yes Pakistan has plenty of these weapon system.
How effective are they compared to 155mm, i had thought modern Calliber's had stabilized at 155mm.


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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Most Pakistanis are against civilian killings. Anyways the news looks a bit unauthentic.



As caine said, go and look back the last few pages and posts by Pakistani members.. They kind of contradict you..


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## mayankmatador

Every country has the right to defend itself. Whether its India,israel,afghanistan or pakistan.. But instead of chasing TTP, and bombing their hiding, they are bombing civilians its sheer frustation and shows their incompetence.

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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> As caine said, go and look back the last few pages and posts by Pakistani members.. They kind of contradict you..



A few Pakistani members aren't the official representatives of state of Pakistan. State of Pakistan however condemns such "collateral damages". As such damages don't help fight terrorism. A prime example is Afghanistan itself.


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## Bhai Zakir

Why target innocent Muslim civilians????


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## Imran Khan

Lonely Hermit said:


> Impressive i just did a Google search the system are old 1950's and yes Pakistan has plenty of these weapon system.
> How effective are they compared to 155mm, i had thought modern Calliber's had stabilized at 155mm.



RASI JAL GAI BAL NHI GYA ?


OHH BBHAI where you live ? 

its M110


It first entered service with the US Army in 1963

Egyptian Army Received 144 M110A2 as aid in 1996

Royal Bahraini Army 13 M110A2 from Netherlands delivered in 1994 25 M110A2 from US delivered in 1996

PAKISTAN using some 260 units


also pakitan have 356 another 203MM artillery guns named M115 .

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## BATMAN

Wright said:


> It seems a two front war is possible. They are shelling Nato on one side, and India on the other.



It is other way around.

TTP was created by RAW to shift Pakistani troops away from Indian border, termed by their army chief as cold start.

Pakistan's blockage of transit is hurting indian cold start doctrine badly, mainly due to shortage of fuel.

US is trying to compensate India's increased oil expenditure by influencing base oil prices.

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## Paan Singh

See,U.S is going to stay here for next 10 years.I have been saying that U.S will use afgan army under U.S generals to go inside pakistan with backing of U.S airforce.The War will be labelled as the border disputes b/w the two nations and Afgans will be the front face while U.S will control through remote control.
So after withdrawal of soldiers and opening of bases through russia,this game will start.U.S cant afford to do this with 150000 army in A-stan since supply routes are costly but with lowering down of the soldiers will balance the cost.

Those who says that Russia will make strong alliance (like Aryan B) etc is BS,Even they will provide their bases and U.S will deal with them with combined missile shield.

So let the game start and those believe that every thing will get settled after 2014 are living in delusions.Even many nato countries wont withdraw including U.S.So next 10 years are important for stability of paksitan or if pakistan manages to escape from these next 10 years then it will be big achievement.

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## Lonely Hermit

> Imran Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> RASI JAL GAI BAL NHI GYA ?
> 
> 
> OHH BBHAI where you live ?
> 
> its M110
> 
> 
> It first entered service with the US Army in 1963
> 
> Egyptian Army Received 144 M110A2 as aid in 1996
> 
> Royal Bahraini Army 13 M110A2 from Netherlands delivered in 1994 25 M110A2 from US delivered in 1996
> 
> PAKISTAN using some 260 units
> 
> 
> also pakitan have 356 another 203MM artillery guns named M115 .
Click to expand...

yeah sorry i meant about M115 howitzer but why do you need such a large shell compared to 155mm don't we have MLRS for delivering heavy fire power.


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## Imran Khan

Lonely Hermit said:


> yeah sorry i meant about M115 howitzer but why do you need such a large shell compared to 155mm don't we have MLRS for delivering heavy fire power.



pakistan produce MRLS and even export them have new A-100 MLRS too which are 300mm and range 13km


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## Areesh

Paan Singh said:


> See,U.S is going to stay here for next 10 years.I have been saying that U.S will use afgan army under U.S generals to go inside pakistan with backing of U.S airforce.The War will be labelled as the border disputes b/w the two nations and Afgans will be the front face while U.S will control through remote control.
> So after withdrawal of soldiers and opening of bases through russia,this game will start.U.S cant afford to do this with 150000 army in A-stan since supply routes are costly but with lowering down of the soldiers will balance the cost.
> 
> Those who says that Russia will make strong alliance (like Aryan B) etc is BS,Even they will provide their bases and U.S will deal with them with combined missile shield.
> 
> So let the game start and those believe that every thing will get settled after 2014 are living in delusions.Even many nato countries wont withdraw including U.S.So next 10 years are important for stability of paksitan or if pakistan manages to escape from these next 10 years then it will be big achievement.



Lol. Afghan army would be busy facing much bigger challenges after 2014 let alone entering Pakistani territory and fighting a much bigger and stronger army.

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## RazPaK

Omg. Let the Americans and NATO leave and let's just take over Kabul and kick Karzai's a$$.

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## Caine

RazPaK said:


> Omg. Let the Americans and NATO leave and let's just take over Kabul and kick Karzai's a$$.



We aren't going anywhere mate. Pakistan, like a good ally, should make peace with that.. The sonner the better

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## Areesh

Caine said:


> We aren't going anywhere mate. Pakistan, like a good ally, should make peace with that.. The sonner the better



Good for you that you aren't leaving. French are leaving followed by others. You should stay behind to give them a good

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## RazPaK

Caine said:


> We aren't going anywhere mate. Pakistan, like a good ally, should make peace with that.. The sonner the better



Pakistan can do the job better than you and your coalition. Just leave and send us money. We'll wrap it up in six months. None of that amnesty international bullshit either.

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## Paan Singh

Areesh said:


> Lol. Afghan army would be busy facing much bigger challenges after 2014 let alone entering Pakistani territory and fighting a much bigger and stronger army.



This is wat we have been watching.I think U.S have done 2-3 times before.They used afgan and they came inside pakistani territory.Afgan army is made of tajik or fighters from northern alliance mostly which is anti pakistan.
These U.S soldiers get killed due to their own behavior mostly like harassing the local women and talking with afgans in abusive way and load of other reasons.This makes them Afgans anti american but many afgans are anti pakistani too..
They call us or u daal khor 
When U.S is standing at back,then i will see the response of pakistan .

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## RazPaK

Paan Singh said:


> This is wat we have been watching.I think U.S have done 2-3 times before.They used afgan and they came inside pakistani territory.Afgan army is made of tajik or fighters from northern alliance mostly which is anti pakistan.
> These U.S soldiers get killed due to their own behavior mostly like harassing the local women and talking with afgans in abusive way and load of other reasons.This makes them Afgans anti american but many afgans are anti pakistani too..
> They call us or u daal khor
> When U.S is standing at back,then i will see the response of pakistan .



Who cares what they call us. They even get their daal from Pakistan, forget about meat.

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## karan.1970

RazPaK said:


> Pakistan can do the job better than you and your coalition. Just leave and send us money. We'll wrap it up in six months. None of that amnesty international bullshit either.



 fix your own areas first. There are such regular terror strikes in Pakistan these days, that even news papers no longer cover them on front page.


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## Areesh

Paan Singh said:


> This is wat we have been watching.I think U.S have done 2-3 times before.They used afgan and they came inside pakistani territory.Afgan army is made of tajik or fighters from northern alliance mostly which is anti pakistan.
> These U.S soldiers get killed due to their own behavior mostly like harassing the local women and talking with afgans in abusive way and load of other reasons.This makes them Afgans anti american but many afgans are anti pakistani too..
> They call us or u daal khor
> When U.S is standing at back,then i will see the response of pakistan .



You didn't get my post buddy. And it is good that Afghan army is full of Tajik's. Works well for us.


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## Paan Singh

RazPaK said:


> Who cares what they call us. They even get their daal from Pakistan, forget about meat.



well,i was on afgan group.I asked simple question 

""Why do u call pakistanis daal khor?even we indians eat daal""

That moderator banned me from group


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## Caine

RazPaK said:


> Pakistan can do the job better than you and your coalition. Just leave and *send us money. *We'll wrap it up in six months. None of that amnesty international bullshit either.



we have tried it with Pakistan before. Didnt go too well. There is a line that goes.. If you want something done well, do it your


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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> fix your own areas first. There are such regular terror strikes in Pakistan these days, that even news papers no longer cover them on front page.


 
Those attacks are mostly in areas near to Afghan borer and not the major cities. That is the war zone. Do mention this too Karan or else don't complain for infractions next time.


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## Stealth

want f****ing AIRSTRIKE over Afghanistan Border ASAP!


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## RazPaK

Paan Singh said:


> well,i was on afgan group.I asked simple question
> 
> ""Why do u call pakistanis daal khor?even we indians eat daal""
> 
> That moderator banned me from group



You don't want to know what we call Afghans in Pakistan.


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## Paan Singh

Areesh said:


> You didn't get my post buddy. And it is good that Afghan army is full of Tajik's. Works well for us.



Well,Panetta was in india and he said that in future if needed,we will go inside paksitan with afgans and do operations if paksitan dont agree OR IF OUR SOLDIERS GOT THREATENED.

Even when obama signed the agreement 2 months back,he said that Attack on A-stan will be attack on U.S forces.

so if you conclude all,it verifies my post.See,Afgans dont have much resources and they will have to depend on U.S for money and for military.Go to any group and talk to any..most of these ppl are hardcore anti paksitani.

it makes them more nationalist when it comes to pakistan.I took side of paksitan many times in front of them but they banned me or deleted my post or called me daal khor..


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## RazPaK

Caine said:


> we have tried it with Pakistan before. Didnt go too well. There is a line that goes.. If you want something done well, do it your



When did you try it?

In the 80's?

When both Pakistan and Afghanistan helped you out. what did you do?

Slap both countries with sanctions?


Look at your hypocrisy man.


These Taliban are the equivalent to your founding fathers.

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## K-Xeroid

karan.1970 said:


> fix your own areas first. There are such regular terror strikes in Pakistan these days, that even news papers no longer cover them on front page.


once we destroy its roots then you will see the significant decrease in those terror strikes.


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## Areesh

Paan Singh said:


> Well,Panetta was in india and he said that in future if needed,we will go inside paksitan with afgans and do operations if paksitan dont agree OR IF OUR SOLDIERS GOT THREATENED.
> 
> Even when obama signed the agreement 2 months back,he said that Attack on A-stan will be attack on U.S forces.
> 
> so if you conclude all,it verifies my post.See,Afgans dont have much resources and they will have to depend on U.S for money and for military.Go to any group and talk to any..most of these ppl are hardcore anti paksitani.
> 
> it makes them more nationalist when it comes to pakistan.I took side of paksitan many times in front of them but they banned me or deleted my post or called me daal khor..



Still don't know how your rant was related with my post. As I said Afghan army would be facing much bigger challenges in the future and particuarly after 2014.

And we don't care what you do on Afghan groups. Don't mention it here.


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## Paan Singh

Areesh said:


> Still don't know how your rant was related with my post. As I said Afghan army would be facing much bigger challenges in the future and particuarly after 2014.
> 
> And we don't care what you do on Afghan groups. Don't mention it here.



well see..my rant works or not.you are here n me too .
i tried to just explain.

Good night


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## Areesh

Paan Singh said:


> well see..my rant works or not.you are here n me too .
> i tried to just explain.
> 
> Good night



Fine fine.


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## Caine

RazPaK said:


> When did you try it?
> 
> In the 80's?
> 
> When both Pakistan and Afghanistan helped you out. what did you do?
> 
> Slap both countries with sanctions?
> 
> 
> Look at your hypocrisy man.
> 
> 
> These Taliban are the equivalent to your founding fathers.



Dude, every country has its own respected founding fathers. Its shows intellectual bankruptcy on your part to stoop so low so as to insult the American ones to bolster your argument. 

Anyway, @topic, I dont mean 1980's. That actually went very well.. I mean more about the 1st half of the last decade. Before we realized that Pakistan was both a part of the problem as well as part of the solution

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## mjnaushad

karan.1970 said:


> Are these smart artillary shells that ensure that they bypass the innocent Afghan civilians and only kill the TTP terrorists hiding in Afghan Border areas. I am sure they are because if they are not, it makes Pakistan's daily wails against drone attacks killing innocent Pakistani civilians just a load of high quality BS



Why dont you get so angry on drones ?????


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## RazPaK

Caine said:


> Dude, every country has its own respected founding fathers. Its shows intellectual bankruptcy on your part to stoop so low so as to insult the American ones to bolster your argument.
> 
> Anyway, @Topic, I dont mean 1980's. That actually went very well.. I mean more about the 1st half of the last decade. Before we realized that Pakistan was both a part of the problem as well as part of the solution



You created the problem by leaving behind your "allies".


Oh and about my intellectual bankruptcy:

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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Those attacks are mostly in areas near to Afghan borer and not the major cities. That is the war zone. Do mention this too Karan or else don't complain for infractions next time.



Are the border areas of Pakistan not considered a part of Pakistan? So why do you think my post is incorrect. Or do you consider people living in your border areas less Pakistani or their lives any chearper. Why would only attacks in Islamabad or Lahore be important and the ones in Peshawar, Quetta etc of any less importance?

And I have stopped complaining against unfair infractions. Or baseless threats about the same 



Android K-Zero said:


> once we destroy its roots then you will see the significant decrease in those terror strikes.



The problem is that you are looking for roots outside, where as the real roots exist in the Pakistani state's ideological support to militant and terrorist groups. So till you fix that, it wont matter how many medussa heads you cut off, there will be more that will grow to take their place.


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## Xestan

RazPaK said:


> You created the problem by leaving behind your "allies".
> 
> 
> Oh and about my intellectual bankruptcy:



Trust me, I knew he wont get that founding father part 

On topic: This news makes no sense, I mean, I don't think PA would do something this stupid in desperation, I hope they go for surgical strikes inside Afghanistan ASAP.


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## karan.1970

mjnaushad said:


> Why dont you get so angry on drones ?????



I dont. And I dont get angry on these strikes either.. Just pointing out the Pakistani hypocrisy between their reaction to drone strikes and the action of their own army

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## mjnaushad

Paan Singh said:


> See,U.S is going to stay here for next 10 years.I have been saying that U.S will use afgan army under U.S generals to go inside pakistan with backing of U.S airforce.The War will be labelled as the border disputes b/w the two nations and Afgans will be the front face while U.S will control through remote control.
> So after withdrawal of soldiers and opening of bases through russia,this game will start.U.S cant afford to do this with 150000 army in A-stan since supply routes are costly but with lowering down of the soldiers will balance the cost.
> 
> Those who says that Russia will make strong alliance (like Aryan B) etc is BS,Even they will provide their bases and U.S will deal with them with combined missile shield.
> 
> So let the game start and those believe that every thing will get settled after 2014 are living in delusions.Even many nato countries wont withdraw including U.S.So next 10 years are important for stability of paksitan or if pakistan manages to escape from these next 10 years then it will be big achievement.



So you are saying US, Afghanistan, Russia all will join just to take control of Pakistan's tribal belt..........


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## Areesh

Xestan said:


> Trust me, I knew he wont get that founding father part



Americans in general have problem about father part.

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## mjnaushad

karan.1970 said:


> I dont. And I dont get angry on these strikes either.. Just pointing out the Pakistani hypocrisy between their reaction to drone strikes and the action of their own army



I didn't see one msg which is saying this is good,PA should do this while when its a strike in Pakistan all thumps are up.......

Hypocrisy is what we are talking about  ..... We all know who is hypocrite here....




Anyway any story from Pakistan side yet.....


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## Caine

RazPaK said:


> You created the problem by leaving behind your "allies".



Were you expecting us to transport all the Afghani and Pakistani fighters to North America  ??




RazPaK said:


> Oh and about my intellectual bankruptcy:



There is a concept of context buddy. 25 years have gone past since the Reagan made the comment. Till 5 years back, Pakistan was a trusted Non NATO ally. Today its probably the biggest headache for NATO. So stop quoting things out of context and come up with a valid discussion point

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## mjnaushad

Caine said:


> Were you expecting us to transport all the Afghani and Pakistani fighters to North America  ??



Nope.... But you didn't help at all... The money you are spending now after loosing 3000 of your own citizen and thousands of soldiers... It was due in 1980....But what you did was ran away and not only ran away slapped sanctions as well.....So what Pakistan later did is what a developing country with sanction on it is suppose to do.....

Sometime I feel like you guys are brainwashed to the same level of a suicide bomber......If you realize your mistakes in the past all this will be easy....but No...You guys are bent on doing it again.


> There is a concept of context buddy. 25 years have gone past since the Reagan made the comment. Till 5 years back, Pakistan was a trusted Non NATO ally. Today its probably the *biggest headache* for NATO. So stop quoting things out of context and come up with a valid discussion point



Is that what they call scapegoat nowadays????

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## Icarus

Most people here do not understand the dynamics of doing politics in the Afg-Pak border region. Power is the lingua franca here, if you want to be heard, speak through your fists. The Taliban showed their power, now it's Pakistan's turn. The colluding village (such a brazen attack without local help is impossible) is singled out. Remember that the border is porous with blood relations on both sides, news spreads quickly and informants/sympathetic/elders mark out the colluding village, the village's pastures and other barren areas, like fields are shelled. The object is not to harm anyone but rather to bring the guilty party to call a Jirga through a show of force, the guilty party can also choose to retaliate. The Jirga then negotiates the hand over of the criminals, the Jirga's decision is binding. 

We fired over 500 shells two years ago, when the Afghans shot down our Mi-17 in Bajaur, not a single person was killed but the villagers were at the Jirga the very next morning. Then, when 30 kids were picked up by the Taliban last Eid, a 20,000 strong Lashkar was mobilized with Artillery support and the opposing village that had refused to budge for 3 months was suddenly prepared to free the kids unconditionally. 

A small lesson in getting shyte done over the Durand Line.



Caine said:


> There is a concept of context buddy. 25 years have gone past since the Reagan made the comment. Till 5 years back, Pakistan was a trusted Non NATO ally. Today its probably the biggest headache for NATO. So stop quoting things out of context and come up with a valid discussion point



In those five years, NATO and America have made it a mission to humiliate Pakistan, thus the headache. You get your act together and we'll follow suite. This is coming from a guy who worked in close co-ord with ******* Forward Strategic Command CENTCOM for two years.

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## Paan Singh

mjnaushad said:


> So you are saying US, Afghanistan, Russia all will join just to take control of Pakistan's tribal belt..........



No..


1)U.S came here to control the CAR resources and to manage israel for future.
2)I too believe that 9/11 was fake attack and objective was to get the bases in A-stan.
3)U.S n russia have been the major powers and they have been dealing since decades.They give n take and compromise..thats 
it.
4)Same here,U.S needs access to A-stan and russia can provide military bases to them .In return,there may be dealing on missile shield or other issues.
5)Russia have bad exp with taliban or these kinda grps.So they will try to finish them by using U.S forces with afgans.

Now come to paksitan,see it neutrally

6)With American interest in region,what russia can gain.If U.S decides to strike paksitan then russia will support it..why??..U.S will never go with full war,it will be separation of baluchistan upto maximum and this operation can provide link to russia with warm waters.

7)its upto U.S or paksitan to convince russia that how and in which condition they can provide better access to russia .
8)Obviously U.S provides better deal.it will help russia to make better relation with Nato or west and on missile shield and solving mess on the taliban etc.

9)Another factor is india,russia toowants to use the india like U.S wants to use india against china.BOth powers will try to make sure that india remain on their side since china is getting strong and obviously they need country who can control indian ocean.
and fix their interst..india is important for them economically too..so u like it or not,india is factor.

So paksitan dont have much cards left,they cant provide any thing important to russia which U.S can provide internationally.


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## Uchiha

karan.1970 said:


> Are civilians acceptable Collateral damage ?


HYPOCRITICAL INDIAN. Nice joke, when the drones do it, what do you indians say?


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## Caine

mjnaushad said:


> Nope.... But you didn't help at all... The money you are spending now after loosing 3000 of your own citizen and thousands of soldiers... It was due in 1980....But what you did was ran away and not only ran away slapped sanctions as well.....So what Pakistan later did is what a developing country with sanction on it is suppose to do.....



And what was that? Cultivate terrorists ? How does that help with sanctions?




mjnaushad said:


> Sometime I feel like you guys are brainwashed to the same level of a suicide bomber......If you realize your mistakes in the past all this will be easy....but No...You guys are bent on doing it again.


Mate, there have been multiple admissions by our administration about the mistakes of 1980's, but that certainly does not give Pakistan a blank check to indulge in activities that result in American deaths in Afghanistan. Its tough to admit, but our capacity to hurt Pakistan is significantly higher than yours to hurt us. Thankfully most of your leaders know this, and public bluster aside, they have more or less traveled the right path.




mjnaushad said:


> Is that what they call scapegoat nowadays????



No.. Its a definition of an errant ally that is like a child who at times puts ego above well being. Who sometimes needs to be pampered and sometimes scolded into doing the right thing.



Icarus said:


> In those five years, NATO and America have made it a mission to humiliate Pakistan, thus the headache. You get your act together and we'll follow suite. This is coming from a guy who worked in close co-ord with ******* Forward Strategic Command CENTCOM for two years.



Its a chicken and an egg story mate. Humiliation followed discovery of Pakistan sleeping with the enemy.


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## pakdefender

Its possible that after the shelling there will be some ground based ingress to take out TTP pockets inside afghanistan, that&#8217;s typically how it&#8217;s done; anybody getting in the way ( ANA or US or combined ANA and US .. lol what a combination  ) will get it up their rump

There is a price to pay for harbouring Pakistan's enemies


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## mjnaushad

Caine said:


> And what was that? Cultivate terrorists ? How does that help with sanctions?


That was to do anything to bring stabilization..... Taliban was a movement which brought some stabalization....And it was an Afghan movement.....I know many of you think we created taliban but Taliban is creation of a warlord raping 12 year old girl.....And when taliban put that warlord to justice people started supporting them and In a long time afghanistan was largely under one groups control....I remember before taliban the afghans here use to say that they need 5 visas to travel in Afghanistan......So we accepted what ever was bringing stabalization and a form of govt in Afghanistan.....even for a short term...

Sanction didn't help at all..... First even the hate today for USA is mostly based on that backstabbing and automatically pushing us on the other side.. 2ndly Poor economic conditions lead to extreme actions and accepting taliban regard less of world pressure was one of them






> Mate, there have been multiple admissions by our administration about the mistakes of 1980's, but that certainly does not give Pakistan a blank check to indulge in activities that result in American deaths in Afghanistan. Its tough to admit, but our capacity to hurt Pakistan is significantly higher than yours to hurt us. Thankfully most of your leaders know this, and public bluster aside, they have more or less traveled the right path.



Of course you have much more capability of hurting us.... Even sanction in 80s hurt us way much more and we wasn't able to give you any damage at all...... But my point is not that..... Even with so much "HURTING" us you are again here in Afghanistan fighting.... All this could have been avoided if you guys accept your mistakes and learn from them...But for a fake ego sake you guys are not doing it...Just like apology for killing soldiers....




> No.. Its a definition of an errant ally that is like a child who at times puts ego above well being. Who sometimes needs to be pampered and sometimes scolded into doing the right thing.



Really...... All the mistakes and problems is Pakistan???? Just what i am talking about.

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## Mercenary

karan.1970 said:


> I dont. And I dont get angry on these strikes either.. Just pointing out the Pakistani hypocrisy between their reaction to drone strikes and the action of their own army



You will get no hypocrisy from me.

I have said from Day 1, I fully and totally support drone strikes.


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## Luffy 500

Why doesn't PAK build a large fence over the durand line. The whole world recognizes that as International boundary, doesn't matter if mayor of Kabul cries over it. I think PAK shoud make some urgent diplomatic effort with KSA, china as well as the yankis to get over with this fencing.


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## mjnaushad

Mercenary said:


> You will get no hypocrisy from me.
> 
> I have said from Day 1, I fully and totally support drone strikes.



I supported drones to some extent and still do......I just don't support killing 40 pro govt elders (Thats why i wrote to some extent)


2ndly my point is Hypocrites calling us Hypocrites.

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## Irfan Baloch

karan.1970 said:


> I say they are.. Whether they are in Afghan border areas or in Pakistan's tribal belt. Hence I support these attacks by Pakistan in Afghanistan as well as the drone attacks/special op hits by NATO in Pakistan.



my question back to you was your view about collateral damage I take it you accept it and justify it
at least you are consistant.

and so am I
the difference is... I oppose the collateral damage from both sides
whatever sugar coated name we give it... its plain murder.

reminds me the time of the conclusion of 2nd word war when Allied forces started fire bombing the civilians in Germany and Japan to bring them to submission. sadly for Japan it included not one but 2 atomic bombs. they called it morale bombing... to break the will of the people of Germany and Japan but in plain terms it was civilian murder.

the difference is premeditated or accidental. refer to the Afghan villagers fleeing the village in Kunduz fearing the NATO attacks and alas they were marked by the Americans and hunted down in the hills although they could clearly see women and children accompanying the fleeing villagers who wanted to be out of the way of the fight between the Americans and Taliban, the other one was the day time murder of the tribesmen in FATA the open gathering, a reprisal from Panetta for keeping his blackops murderer (aka diplomat Raymond). 

the civilian deaths always play in the hands of the terrorists. even if they dont.. there is simply no justification. yes its a reality of war but its a fine line that differentiates soldiers from terrorists. 

I dont support this shelling which has the potential to bring civilian life in danger. but I am loss for alternatives to be honest with you.

-we cant send our troops there because that will be used as an argument of us supporting Haqqanis. I can imagine few dead or captured Pakistani soldiers being paraded in front of the cameras with claims that they were supporting Haqqanis 

-we might be able to do air strikes but they have same risk for civilian loss of life like artillery & secondly this option can cause a possible confrontation with NATO forces.

-which leaves us with artillery. which still needs forward observers or markers who would identity TTP concentration and request fire. depending on the range, an artillery projectile can t from field artillery aka about 30 to 40 seconds to reach the target and then there is the consideration of population & ever mobile enemy.

the dream solution is forces on either side actually coordinating their attacks and encircling the taliban.. like it was done in the past operations named in hammer and anvil. but that cooperation is good as dead.

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## MilSpec

Irfan Baloch said:


> my question back to you was your view about collateral damage I take it you accept it and justify it
> at least you are consistant.
> 
> and so am I
> the difference is... I oppose the collateral damage from both sides
> whatever sugar coated name we give it... its plain murder.
> 
> reminds me the time of the conclusion of 2nd word war when Allied forces started fire bombing the civilians in Germany and Japan to bring them to submission. sadly for Japan it included not one but 2 atomic bombs. they called it morale bombing... to break the will of the people of Germany and Japan but in plain terms it was civilian murder.
> 
> the difference is premeditated or accidental. refer to the Afghan villagers fleeing the village in Kunduz fearing the NATO attacks and alas they were marked by the Americans and hunted down in the hills although they could clearly see women and children accompanying the fleeing villagers who wanted to be out of the way of the fight between the Americans and Taliban, the other one was the day time murder of the tribesmen in FATA the open gathering, a reprisal from Panetta for keeping his blackops murderer (aka diplomat Raymond).
> 
> the civilian deaths always play in the hands of the terrorists. even if they dont.. there is simply no justification. yes its a reality of war but its a fine line that differentiates soldiers from terrorists.
> 
> I dont support this shelling which has the potential to bring civilian life in danger. but I am loss for alternatives to be honest with you.
> 
> -we cant send our troops there because that will be used as an argument of us supporting Haqqanis. I can imagine few dead or captured Pakistani soldiers being paraded in front of the cameras with claims that they were supporting Haqqanis
> 
> -we might be able to do air strikes but they have same risk for civilian loss of life like artillery & secondly this option can cause a possible confrontation with NATO forces.
> 
> -which leaves us with artillery. which still needs forward observers or markers who would identity TTP concentration and request fire. depending on the range, an artillery projectile can t from field artillery aka about 30 to 40 seconds to reach the target and then there is the consideration of population & ever mobile enemy.
> 
> the dream solution is forces on either side actually coordinating their attacks and encircling the taliban.. like it was done in the past operations named in hammer and anvil. but that cooperation is good as dead.



Arty Shelling for COIN operations? Why not hot pursuit, PA has enough clout to enter afghan territory. Send your SSG and take them out


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## Imran Khan

sandy_3126 said:


> Arty Shelling for COIN operations? Why not hot pursuit, PA has enough clout to enter afghan territory. Send your SSG and take them out




its like human did with bugs or fly  we just throw few shells to keep them away


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## MilSpec

Imran Khan said:


> its like human did with bugs or fly  we just throw few shells to keep them away



Although I dont think/hope thats the view of PA, I hope such drastic measures were taken due to operational and geographical difficulties


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## pakdefender

Seeing that Pakistan is retaliating with force against Indian backed shenanigans from Afghanistan is making the poor Indian twitch 
BOMB voyage dirty terrorists! BOMB voyage
Artillery is just the right treatment for them

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## SMC

karan.1970 said:


> Remember that when you cry a river next time against a drone strike in Waziristan



It goes both ways. The bharatis and Americans use the same argument when doing drone attacks in Pakistan. So you're no less a hypocrite here.

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## Edevelop

Thats right. Destroy TTP:

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## Sher Malang

Show me one shell that has fallen on a terrorist or a civilian? I don't know what is PA up to totally wrong move by Pakistan and they should be assured that they shall not cry for increasing Indian support in Afghanistan - North, West, Central Afghanistan were already against Pakistan and now when they are shelling eastern Afghanistan they will lose the support of majority of Pashtuns since they have asked the government to equip them and allow them to attack Pakistani positions!

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## karan.1970

SMC said:


> It goes both ways. The bharatis and Americans use the same argument when doing drone attacks in Pakistan. So you're no less a hypocrite here.



Show me a post where I have argued against these strikes.. On the other hand, Pakistani members are such cry babies when it comes to drone strikes against the terrorists on the Pakistani soil


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## clmeta

To say India is supporting Taliban is the biggest joke I have heard.


pakdefender said:


> Seeing that Pakistan is retaliating with force against Indian backed shenanigans from Afghanistan is making the poor Indian twitch
> BOMB voyage dirty terrorists! BOMB voyage
> Artillery is just the right treatment for them


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## karan.1970

Irfan Baloch said:


> my question back to you was your view about collateral damage I take it you accept it and justify it
> at least you are consistant.
> 
> and so am I
> the difference is... I oppose the collateral damage from both sides
> whatever sugar coated name we give it... its plain murder.
> 
> reminds me the time of the conclusion of 2nd word war when Allied forces started fire bombing the civilians in Germany and Japan to bring them to submission. sadly for Japan it included not one but 2 atomic bombs. they called it morale bombing... to break the will of the people of Germany and Japan but in plain terms it was civilian murder.
> 
> the difference is premeditated or accidental. refer to the Afghan villagers fleeing the village in Kunduz fearing the NATO attacks and alas they were marked by the Americans and hunted down in the hills although they could clearly see women and children accompanying the fleeing villagers who wanted to be out of the way of the fight between the Americans and Taliban, the other one was the day time murder of the tribesmen in FATA the open gathering, a reprisal from Panetta for keeping his blackops murderer (aka diplomat Raymond).
> 
> the civilian deaths always play in the hands of the terrorists. even if they dont.. there is simply no justification. yes its a reality of war but its a fine line that differentiates soldiers from terrorists.
> 
> I dont support this shelling which has the potential to bring civilian life in danger. but I am loss for alternatives to be honest with you.
> 
> -we cant send our troops there because that will be used as an argument of us supporting Haqqanis. I can imagine few dead or captured Pakistani soldiers being paraded in front of the cameras with claims that they were supporting Haqqanis
> 
> -we might be able to do air strikes but they have same risk for civilian loss of life like artillery & secondly this option can cause a possible confrontation with NATO forces.
> 
> -which leaves us with artillery. which still needs forward observers or markers who would identity TTP concentration and request fire. depending on the range, an artillery projectile can t from field artillery aka about 30 to 40 seconds to reach the target and then there is the consideration of population & ever mobile enemy.
> 
> the dream solution is forces on either side actually coordinating their attacks and encircling the taliban.. like it was done in the past operations named in hammer and anvil. but that cooperation is good as dead.



No disagreement on the philosophy. Arty fire by Pakistan or Drone attacks by USA are not the ideal solution, but seem to be the only one available in the given scenario. Unfortunately both carry with them the cost of collateral damage. But in my view that is more acceptable than not acting at all


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## Areesh

Sher Malang said:


> Show me one shell that has fallen on a terrorist or a civilian? I don't know what is PA up to totally wrong move by Pakistan and they should be assured that they shall not cry for increasing Indian support in Afghanistan - North, West, Central Afghanistan were already against Pakistan and now when they are shelling eastern Afghanistan they will lose the support of majority of Pashtuns since they have asked the government to equip them and allow them to attack Pakistani positions!



OMG. These ungrateful Afghans will hate us even more. Pity.

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## Icarus

Caine said:


> Its a chicken and an egg story mate. Humiliation followed discovery of Pakistan sleeping with the enemy.




Which we have pointed out was not the case. See, we are poles a part on all matters, an alliance under such circumstances is best forsaken.

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## RazPaK

Sher Malang said:


> Show me one shell that has fallen on a terrorist or a civilian? I don't know what is PA up to totally wrong move by Pakistan and they should be assured that they shall not cry for increasing Indian support in Afghanistan - North, West, Central Afghanistan were already against Pakistan and now when they are shelling eastern Afghanistan they will lose the support of majority of Pashtuns since they have asked the government to equip them and allow them to attack Pakistani positions!



As if we give a ****. 

Your Tajiks that have been born to Pashtun fathers will get massacred. It's only a matter of time. Bring your army. Let the sons of Khyber teach your farsiwan eunuchs a lesson.

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## clmeta

Talk like a human dude.


RazPaK said:


> As if we give a ****.
> 
> Your Tajiks that have been born to Pashtun fathers will get massacred. It's only a matter of time. Bring your army. Let the sons of Khyber teach your farsiwan eunuchs a lesson.


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## Awesome

karan.1970 said:


> Are these smart artillary shells that ensure that they bypass the innocent Afghan civilians and only kill the TTP terrorists hiding in Afghan Border areas. I am sure they are because if they are not, it makes Pakistan's daily wails against drone attacks killing innocent Pakistani civilians just a load of high quality BS



Its a one off incident, must have been triggered by some worried people at the border who don't know when Afghan, Taliban or American forces may attack. Something must have occurred and the shells fired in self-defence.


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## RazPaK

Sher Malang and his band of Tajiks try to hide in the shadows of Daoud Khan. It is laughable. Even with the will of these Americans, all these guys can do is look upon Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa with envy while their own country burns.


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## Sher Malang

RazPaK said:


> Pak Army doesn't need to do ****.
> 
> Ask the Tajik Sher Malang, when his army came in the past to claim Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, and got their ***** handed to them by local tribes.


 
NOT NECESSARY - YOU ARE ALREADY BANNED!

Shelling mountains will result nothing but increase the anger of local people and will tempt them to shelter TTP insurgents! in any way it's your lose!


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## Gandhi G in da house

Why do Pakistanis simply assume that all Pashtun support the Taliban ? And if you are not supportive of Taliban , you are not Pashtun . 

All Taliban are Pashtun but all Pashtun are not Taliban

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## Thorn

Sher Malang said:


> NOT NECESSARY - YOU ARE ALREADY BANNED!
> !



well you shouldve answered him before he was banned,what were u waiting for


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## Sher Malang

Thorn said:


> well you shouldve answered him before he was banned,what were u waiting for


 
I don't want to follow his way, I had answered his question and it was bit harsh but when I checked he is already banned so I edited my post!


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## datalibdaz

Pakistan Army is too much lenient... They should wipe off the area with bombs on the borders from where these militants comes to attack Pak Army check posts..Kill those people who provide them shelter.. These bloody afghans are the worst people i have seen in my life...Here in Peshawar is keeping 2 million refugees..They have jobs here,,earn their living,,live a peaceful life...this what Pakistan provides them but in return these people are traitors to Pakistan..Every day i see hundreds of afghan coming from Afghanistan for medical issues to Peshawar. These people have no self respect and no respect for the country who provides them care..And this is the only reason they are in a war from 40 years..I says kill militants and the people who provide shelter to them

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## Baby Leone

Good move by Pakistan Army (ididnt knew artillaries are tht much detructive my poor on defence) with no inocent died very professional act by PA as usual.

I guess Pakistan should also bomb those indian counsulates who are the main supporters of terrorists.

& lol @ indian crying on humanity  dont suits them at all....


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## Gandhi G in da house

Mr Javed said:


> Good move by Pakistan Army (ididnt knew artillaries are tht much detructive my poor on defence) with no inocent died very professional act by PA as usual.
> 
> *I guess Pakistan should also bomb those indian counsulates who are the main supporters of terrorists.*& lol @ indian crying on humanity  dont suits them at all....



You ve already done that twice . Didn't help much , we are still there


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## Desert Fox

karan.1970 said:


> Are these smart artillary shells that ensure that they bypass the innocent Afghan civilians and only kill the TTP terrorists hiding in Afghan Border areas. I am sure they are because if they are not, it makes Pakistan's daily wails against drone attacks killing innocent Pakistani civilians just a load of high quality BS



Drone attacks have been taking place way before these recent artillery shellings not to mention drone strikes are more frequent.

And please indian, don't act as if you sympathized with Pakistan on the drone issue before this incident because i'm sure you didn't. So keep your crocodile tears.


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## Don Jaguar

45'22' said:


> Pakistan is moving towards a great future,initially i thought it was wrong on behalf of US to use drones as it was killing civilians but now i think there are no civilians left,everyone is having a terrorist type mentality,US are doing a great job,they should wipe out each terrorist mentality people form Pakistan even if they have to kill all
> I never understood,Why the hell does Pakistan exist on the face of Earth
> They cant do a single positive thing,its all about bomb,ISI,India,US



Then why don't US declare Pakistan an official enemy? 



Mercenary said:


> A dead terr0rist is a good one. Drone em!



Drone only him and not the civilians around him.


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## 45'22'

Don Jaguar said:


> Then why don't US declare Pakistan an official enemy?
> 
> 
> 
> Drone only him and not the civilians around him.


official matlab Paper mein likh kar denge kya aapko,roz roz ke attacks kafi nahi kya
very difficult to find a civilian like you,jidhar dekho udhar ek terrorist khada hai aur bol raha hai India ko nuke karo


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## IceCold

We have gone way over topic and in a useless never ending debate with the trolls from across the border.

Any updates on this event? Is the shelling being continued or stopped, cant seem to find the news related to this.


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## mjnaushad

Sher Malang said:


> Show me one shell that has fallen on a terrorist or a civilian? I don't know what is PA up to totally wrong move by Pakistan and they should be assured that they shall not cry for increasing Indian support in Afghanistan - North, West, Central Afghanistan were already against Pakistan and now when they are shelling eastern Afghanistan they will lose the support of majority of Pashtuns since they have asked the government to equip them and allow them to attack Pakistani positions!



Now you know why we say drones killing civilians increase terrorism........A claim you always rejected.



Sher Malang said:


> NOT NECESSARY - YOU ARE ALREADY BANNED!
> 
> Shelling mountains will result nothing but increase the anger of local people and will tempt them to shelter TTP insurgents! in any way it's your lose!



Now you are repeating the points you guys ones rejected......

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## Baby Leone

45'22' said:


> official matlab Paper mein likh kar denge kya aapko,roz roz ke attacks kafi nahi kya
> very difficult to find a civilian like you,jidhar dekho udhar ek terrorist khada hai aur bol raha hai India ko nuke karo


 
its better for ur health to indulge urself less in india tv & zee kind of sh!t...


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## mjnaushad

If these artillery is targeting civilian area there must be some civilian causalities?????? any numbers.....Or they just flee because Artillery shells were dropping on a mountain close to their home....???


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## Sher Malang

mjnaushad said:


> Now you know why we say drones killing civilians increase terrorism........A claim you always rejected.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are repeating the points you guys ones rejected......


 
Drones increases terrorism but it also eliminates terrorists but these shelling don't do the second part but increasingly propagate terrorism in the area and I never said that drones don't increase terrorism rather I said good if they kill the terrorists bad if they kill civilians.


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## Srinivas

Imran Khan said:


> ahahahahaha
> 
> *Keep Rolling , Quit Trolling*
> 
> 
> 
> they shelter them for keep pakistan in war busy and drag pak in bloody WOT . tell me why china is not in WOT even they have border with afgh ?



Chinese will go to war when it is profitable to them. If Chinese has invested in afganistan then they would have done the same.


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## K-Xeroid

Sher Malang said:


> Drones increases terrorism but it also eliminates terrorists but these shelling don't do the second part but increasingly propagate terrorism in the area and I never said that drones don't increase terrorism rather I said good if they kill the terrorists bad if they kill civilians.


There have been many terrorist attacks happened from Kunar region , Our soldier on border understands very well that which one of them is local and which on of them is hugely terrorist effected area.


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## Sher Malang

mjnaushad said:


> If these artillery is targeting civilian area there must be some civilian causalities?????? any numbers.....Or they just flee because Artillery shells were dropping on a mountain close to their home....???


 
As I said, these artillery are even not targeting militants!! people flee the area and gets unsettled in other areas and these artillery may also unsettle militants along civilians and there is a high possibility they convince the local people regarding wrong doings of PA on them and call every PA solider kafir and announce jihad on them so a chance in increase of cross border attacks is inevitable.


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## divya

Mr Javed said:


> why you said "you should" when indians & their govt is already doing it since several decades day & night in the back of peace process with Pakistan to show off.



Whats wrong in selling wearpons?
What wrong in telling about the "bad" deeds of people?
Whats wrong in declaring a agressor state an agressor state?
Whats wrong in being business minded?
Whats wrong in charity work for the Afghan people....

And above all
Whats wrong in winning the battle without firing a bullet?


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## Sher Malang

Android K-Zero said:


> There have been many terrorist attacks happened from Kunar region , *Our soldier on border understands very well that which one of them is local* and which on of them is hugely terrorist effected area.


 
If so show us those dead militants by these artillery shelling??


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## K-Xeroid

Sher Malang said:


> If so show us those dead militants by these artillery shelling??


If you point out that anyone got killed or wounded from this Shelling incident? our soldiers must have scene some irregular activity in that area, they may have fired for defence purposes but haven't kill anyone. Afghans already don't have sympathy for Pakistan so there is nothing left to lose. Better to change in tone. Your soldiers were already caught previously in several incidents along bordars.


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## Sher Malang

Android K-Zero said:


> If you point that anyone got killed or wounded from this Shelling incident? our soldiers must have scene some irregular activity in that area, they may have fired for defence purposes but haven't kill anyone. Afghans already don't have sympathy for Pakistan so there is nothing left to lose. Better to change in tone. Your soldiers were already caught previously in several incidents along bordars.



You didn't answered what I asked and you are going off-topic!


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## K-Xeroid

Sher Malang said:


> You didn't answered what I asked and you are going off-topic!


Point out if anyone have been killed, haven't you read this in my previous post,


> If you point out that anyone got killed or wounded from this Shelling incident?


Telling me about going off topic? read my post correctly ..


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## Baby Leone

divya said:


> Whats wrong in selling wearpons?
> What wrong in telling about the "bad" deeds of people?
> Whats wrong in declaring a agressor state an agressor state?
> Whats wrong in being business minded?
> Whats wrong in charity work for the Afghan people....
> 
> And above all
> Whats wrong in winning the battle without firing a bullet?


 
whts wrong If Pakistan or some other country support poor sikhs in their freedome strugle
whts wrong if Pakistan support poor Kashmiris who are fighting for their right & against agression by indian army killing inocent kashmiris
whts wrong if China claimn some indian states for the betterment of the native people & support freedome fighters

now dont cry next time

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## Don Jaguar

45'22' said:


> *official matlab Paper mein likh kar denge kya* aapko,roz roz ke attacks kafi nahi kya
> very difficult to find a civilian like you,jidhar dekho udhar ek terrorist khada hai aur bol raha hai India ko nuke karo



Exactly if they think we are so bad then they should write it in their foreign policy that Pakistan is not an ally it is an enemy state.

Warna aap ko tu pata hi hai na we are allies of US.


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## Icarus

Sher Malang said:


> As I said, these artillery are even not targeting militants!! people flee the area and gets unsettled in other areas and these artillery may also unsettle militants along civilians and there is a high possibility they convince the local people regarding wrong doings of PA on them and call every PA solider kafir and announce jihad on them so a chance in increase of cross border attacks is inevitable.



The situation you have pointed out is already prevalent in Kunar, the Afghan Taliban hold complete control and the people willingly or under pressure are very supportive of them. The Local Commander of Kunar and Nooristan is Qari Zia, he has close relations with the TTP clout and is actively sheltering/sponsoring what remains of TTP in Kunnar. The artillery is not without reason or prior information as I pointed out before, it is aimed at bringing the colluding village to the negotiating table. If we had any intent to kill the Afghans, the locals who hold great respect for the PA and blindly support them in all their efforts will rebel (as they have relatives on the opposite side of the Durand Line) leading to a complete failure of the otherwise successful FATA campaign.

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## Cr.7

RazPaK said:


> Sher Malang and his band of Tajiks try to hide in the shadows of Daoud Khan. It is laughable. Even with the will of these Americans, all these guys can do is look upon Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa with envy while their own country burns.


Why do you care abt pashtuns, KP or afghanistan ?
Keep your inferiority complex for you RozPok.
First of all, worry abt your punjab and bhawalpur


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## Icarus

divya said:


> Whats wrong in selling wearpons?
> What wrong in telling about the "bad" deeds of people?
> Whats wrong in declaring a agressor state an agressor state?
> Whats wrong in being business minded?
> Whats wrong in charity work for the Afghan people....
> 
> And above all
> Whats wrong in winning the battle without firing a bullet?




Your plans would work if we were playing 'Chor, Police'. That's it, their economic, political and strategic viability ends there.



Cr.7 said:


> Why do you care abt pashtuns, KP or afghanistan ?



Pushtuns are our fellow country men, KPK is our province and Afghanistan is a concerned stakeholder in the WoT.



> Keep your inferiority complex for you RozPok.



He's banned and you will be too unless you take a quick spelling test. 



> First of all, worry abt your punjab and bhawalpur



They want provincial status, sure. But why would be worry about it? Not a lot of people here were sweating about Telengana when the movt reached it's peak about a year ago.


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## Don Jaguar

divya said:


> Pakistan should attack Afghanistan
> *We should sell Afghanistan our weapons*.
> Our media should sell the stories of EVIL pakistanis to western public.
> Our government should make sure Pakistan is declared the agressor state.
> Our government should make sure that the sanctions are in place for "Made in pakistan" products and flood the market with "Made in India" products with a tag line that "If you purchase 1% would go to the victims of Pakistani Agression"
> 
> Win Win situation without firing a bullet....



Their defence budget is just 250 million dollars what do you think you will sell them?


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## Sher Malang

Android K-Zero said:


> Point out if anyone have been killed, haven't you read this in my previous post,
> 
> Telling me about going off topic? read my post correctly ..


 
You are asking my question from me; if you don't have answer let me answer it ' NONE ' have been killed but why to take such action even you know it would not kill any militants but will spark condemnation of civilians? 

End result would be:
A rise in cross border attacks
Losing support from Pashtuns on this side of border
TTP may find better shelters once people turns totally against Pakistan
Recruitment will increase for TTP
and Pakistan will be the only loser.


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## K-Xeroid

Cr.7 said:


> Why do you care abt pashtuns, KP or afghanistan ?
> Keep your inferiority complex for you RozPok.
> First of all, worry abt your punjab and bhawalpur


Cuz pushtuns are our brother, you slum.. Why you care about Kashmir, Khalistan, N.E, and Naxal effected areas. Worry about yourself or muslims of india will steal your nation from you and you will remain slum forever.


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## Don Jaguar

Mr Javed said:


> actually the problem with US is
> 
> They dont want to live with us
> & they cannt live without us...
> 
> there indian slaves are just here to justify daddys acts.



Even americans don't defend themselves as much indians defend them.


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## Sher Malang

Don Jaguar said:


> Their defence budget is just 250 million dollars what do you think you will sell them?


 
Nope, our total defense budget for this year is more 7bln$ mostly aid but Afghan gov's contribution is 600mln$ this year which will increase year by year and a fixed budget for post-2014 is also agreed by allies which would be 4.1bln$ per year for the next 10 years! let the trainings be finished buying weapons will follow.


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## Irfan Baloch

sandy_3126 said:


> Arty Shelling for COIN operations? Why not hot pursuit, PA has enough clout to enter afghan territory. Send your SSG and take them out



yea, sounds strange but done it with success in both Sawat and in tribal areas. depending on the terrain, artillery has its limitations and thats when air support was called in.

our troops engaging the taliban or spotting their concentration called in artillery and destroyed the targets. 
for Hot pursuit we have to Russians (vs Georgia) or Americans (vs Pakistan) which we are not, there is a potential for open confrontation with the NATO troops which would only benefit the terrorists.

in reality we cant afford to do it. we will be giving a free pass to Americans to send their planes & troops to do the same on our side of the border..

the best option is use of our own attack drones (if they exist) I think thats an option that has more chance of success for agreement.
CIA is now conducting unilateral drones strikes anyway so we should be able to do the same against the targets in Afghanistan that CIA doesnt consider any danger to its troops. there were some news of about own combat drone program but there is no update on that and Americans were never so keen to share their combat drones with us anyway. so this option will live on the web like all the banter of hot pursuit from Pakistan into Afghanistan.

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## karan.1970

Sher Malang said:


> Nope, our total defense budget for this year is more 7bln$ mostly aid but Afghan gov's contribution is 600mln$ this year which will increase year by year and a fixed budget for post-2014 is also agreed by allies which would be 4.1bln$ per year for the next 10 years! let the trainings be finished buying weapons will follow.



7 Billion USD..? Isnt that more than Pakistan's defence budget?


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## K-Xeroid

Sher Malang said:


> You are asking my question from me; if you don't have answer let me answer it ' NONE ' have been killed but why to take such action even you know it would not kill any militants but will spark condemnation of civilians?
> 
> End result would be:
> A rise in cross border attacks
> Losing support from Pashtuns on this side of border
> TTP may find better shelters once people turns totally against Pakistan
> Recruitment will increase for TTP
> and Pakistan will be the only loser.


Sher malang why don't you read my previous post correctly , I were expecting same questions before from you. 


> our soldiers must have scene some irregular activity in that area, they may have fired for defence purposes but haven't kill anyone. Afghans already don't have sympathy for Pakistan so there is nothing left to lose. Better to change in tone. Your soldiers were already caught previously in several incidents along bordars.


Furthermore TTP already have been attacking us from Afghans, they lost everything in Pakistan even their members but then they recruited more persons and they were all from A-stan , tajiks, Uzbeks. several threads belonging to it you will find in this forum if you just do bit search.


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## Sher Malang

karan.1970 said:


> 7 Billion USD..? Isnt that more than Pakistan's defence budget?


 
Yeah it was more than that a year ago; it's mostly spend on infrastructure and trainings every tool/weapon and training provided by NATO/US cost us 5 times expensive compared to India and Pakistan.


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## Oldman1

Irfan Baloch said:


> yea, sounds strange but done it with success in both Sawat and in tribal areas. depending on the terrain, artillery has its limitations and thats when air support was called in.
> 
> our troops engaging the taliban or spotting their concentration called in artillery and destroyed the targets.
> for Hot pursuit we have to Russians (vs Georgia) or Americans (vs Pakistan) which we are not, there is a potential for open confrontation with the NATO troops which would only benefit the terrorists.
> 
> in reality we cant afford to do it. we will be giving a free pass to Americans to send their planes & troops to do the same on our side of the border..
> 
> the best option is use of our own attack drones (if they exist) I think thats an option that has more chance of success for agreement.
> CIA is now conducting unilateral drones strikes anyway so we should be able to do the same against the targets in Afghanistan that CIA doesnt consider any danger to its troops. there were some news of about own combat drone program but there is no update on that and Americans were never so keen to share their combat drones with us anyway. so this option will live on the web like all the banter of hot pursuit from Pakistan into Afghanistan.



Even the U.S. military don't go firing artillery shells to kill terrorists even if they are in range in Pakistan. Just like you said it has limitations. However, the U.S. just introduce GPS guided shells that limits collateral damage. Expensive though. Still need intel on where to fire at.

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## Sher Malang

Android K-Zero said:


> Sher malang why don't you read my previous post correctly , I were expecting same questions before from you.
> 
> Furthermore TTP already have been attacking us from Afghans, they lost everything in Pakistan even their members but then they recruited more persons and they were all from A-stan , tajiks, Uzbeks. several threads belonging to it you will find in this forum if you just do bit search.


 
Same here Afghan Taliban have lost many men and day by day we see Punjabis and Uzbeks (uzbekistan) militants captured by ANSF.



> our soldiers must have scene some irregular activity in that area, they may have fired for defence purposes but haven't kill anyone. Afghans already don't have sympathy for Pakistan so there is nothing left to lose. Better to change in tone. Your soldiers were already caught previously in several incidents along bordars.



Your soldiers may have seen such movements and it's good if they have taken steps to kill them but believe me these shelling will not work if PA have used drones like US on these terrorists I would supported that but not this.


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## Irfan Baloch

Sher Malang said:


> NOT NECESSARY - YOU ARE ALREADY BANNED!
> 
> Shelling mountains will result nothing but increase the anger of local people and will tempt them to shelter TTP insurgents! in any way it's your lose!



like wise we have same argument about the drone strikes
all Afghan groups that are fighting the NATO and current Afghan regime has public support on both sides of the border, giving them shelter. the constant drone and NATO strikes are also not helping the situation

by the way sorry for the rude comments from some Pakistani members. in their eagerness to contest the flame war with Indians they forgot who the victims of this war are.

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## Irfan Baloch

Sher Malang said:


> Your soldiers may have seen such movements and it's good if they have taken steps to kill them but believe me these shelling will not work *if PA have used drones like US* on these terrorists I would supported that but not this.



catch 22 sher

dont have 'em.. so we make do with what we got.

wanna see NATO troops using artillery in Afghanistan against Taliban? you know they use it too.. I am not justifying it though. and if you check my earlier post, I am against our own shelling as well. but I like to know if people have same views if and when NATO is doing it

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## Don Jaguar

Sher Malang said:


> Nope, our total defense budget for this year is more 7bln$ mostly aid but Afghan gov's contribution is 600mln$ this year which will increase year by year and a fixed budget for post-2014 is also agreed by allies which would be 4.1bln$ per year for the next 10 years! let the trainings be finished buying weapons will follow.



That's mostly aid and will finish soon.

Your entire GDP is 17 billion dollars you cannot manage that.


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## K-Xeroid

Sher Malang said:


> Same here Afghan Taliban have lost many men and day by day we see *Punjabis* and Uzbeks (uzbekistan) militants captured by ANSF.


If you can provide any source for that? 


Sher Malang said:


> Your soldiers may have seen such movements and it's good if they have taken steps to kill them but believe me these shelling will not work if PA have used drones like US on these terrorists I would supported that but not this.


I hope that Pakistan should focused on its drone programs, so we can get our targets with bit more effectively . thats wat I can say here. but as long we don't have drones, we have to depend on shelling and guiding weapons.


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## Sher Malang

Irfan Baloch said:


> like wise we have same argument about the drone strikes
> all Afghan groups that are fighting the NATO and current Afghan regime has public support on both sides of the border, giving them shelter. the constant drone and NATO strikes are also not helping the situation
> 
> by the way sorry for the rude comments from some Pakistani members. in their eagerness to contest the flame war with Indians they forgot who the victims of this war are.


 
It's fine buddy! the drone strikes may not be good in the eyes of Pakistani people but don't you think your security agencies are giving intel to US? if no then it shows US has deeply penetrated the trible areas with it's informers.


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## IceCold

There is too much propaganda being run on international media regarding this, why is there no news in local media?


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## Sher Malang

Don Jaguar said:


> That's mostly aid and will finish soon.
> 
> Your entire GDP is 17 billion dollars you cannot manage that.


 
I think you just read '7bln$' in my post I encourage you to read the rest as well.


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## Irfan Baloch

Oldman1 said:


> Even the U.S. military don't go firing artillery shells to kill terrorists even if they are in range in Pakistan. Just like you said it has limitations. However, the U.S. just introduce GPS guided shells that limits collateral damage. Expensive though. Still need intel on where to fire at.



chief .. dont mislead the people

how many videos and pictures do you want me to post showing NATO artillery shelling? 
not once or twice but many times even our own troops have been shelled. let alone the villages on either side of the border.. some GPS that.
lets face it.. this system has its limitations even if uncle Sam is using it.
dont get me wrong ... I admire your patriotism.. you cant be seen admitting to US shortcoming because it goes against your "freedom".. to always support your troops no matter what. this expression of freedom becomes even more compelling when one is nationalized US citizen

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## Awesome

Afghans are considered brothers by many in Pakistan and we must make sure no innocent loss of life occurs on their side.

At the same time of course, we should have better coordination with the Afghan government and take up the matter of Afghan sanctuaries to the TTP and their ability to amass large troop deployments on that side.

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## Don Jaguar

Sher Malang said:


> I think you just read '7bln$' in my post I encourage you to read the rest as well.



It will remain 4.1 billion dollars for 10 years due to aid but then collapse again.


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## Awesome

Oldman1 said:


> Even the U.S. military don't go firing artillery shells to kill terrorists even if they are in range in Pakistan. Just like you said it has limitations. However, the U.S. just introduce GPS guided shells that limits collateral damage. Expensive though. Still need intel on where to fire at.



You must be talking about some other US military. Its easy to selectively read about your country's shenanigans sitting thousands of miles away but our people you kill, we get to know about them...

You have shelled artillery not only in Afghanistan but *even in Pakistan!*

Contrary to what some people are trying to do here, artillery shelling is the norm on the Pakistan and Afghanistan border


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## Sher Malang

Android K-Zero said:


> If you can provide any source for that?
> 
> I hope that Pakistan should focused on its drone programs, so we can get our targets with bit more effectively . thats wat I can say here. but as long we don't have drones, we have to depend on shelling and guiding weapons.


 
Yeah drones are better how long would PA shell, remember these terrorists always have the time!

Punjabis executed Kandahar assault: police | Pajhwok Afghan News

NDS detains UIM member in Takhar

300 guns seized at Torkham dry port (Video) | Pajhwok Afghan News

there are many other sources in Dari and Pashtu.


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## Awesome

If I am a commander of a check post and I see 100 fighters amassing across a line on a map and ready to charge in to kill my post of 15-30 people, at that point I'll be inclined to save the lives of my men and hit them with everything I got.

Granted Artillery, is not accurate but the source of the fault is to let 100 fighters amass in the first place.

At least HN guys sneak in and sneak out, the attacks from Afghanistan are just too brazen and its only natural such brute force is repelled by more brute force.


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## Sher Malang

Don Jaguar said:


> It will remain 4.1 billion dollars for 10 years due to aid but then collapse again.


 
4.1 x 10 = 41 bln$ enough to develop a strong and equipped force in 10 years! and billions of dollar will come from mines extractions so nothing to worry about.


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## Don Jaguar

Sher Malang said:


> 4.1 x 10 = 41 bln$ enough to develop a strong and equipped force in 10 years! and billions of dollar will come from mines extractions so nothing to worry about.



After developing you need to maintain and keep upgrading it which is not possible with this economic condition.


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## Fazlu

Don Jaguar said:


> After developing you need to maintain and keep upgrading it which is not possible with this economic condition.



Why would you assume that the afghan economic condition would remain exactly as it is at present ? 

Strange.


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## mjnaushad

Sher Malang said:


> Drones increases terrorism but it also eliminates terrorists but these shelling don't do the second part but increasingly propagate terrorism in the area and I never said that drones don't increase terrorism rather I said good if they kill the terrorists bad if they kill civilians.



I'll try to response to both of your post here but if i miss something pardon me.

Artillery worked effectively for PA in WOT in Pakistan.... And considering the number of drone strike cross border and artillery strike cross border i dont think its a fair comparison. 

personally i think Pakistan should use Drones (if they can make that tech) or jets for smart bombs but jet option will be like inviting US forces over to Pakistan border for bombing run with b52 something Pakistan can't afford right now that why artillery....


Response ended ...different post from here directed at you.
Anyway you are opposing artillery (which i didn't support either for different reasons) is not because of its helping terrorist or its damaging civilian ...You are opposing it because these are shells from a foriegn nation dropping on your country without your consent and naturally you'll oppose it.... Although you will give technical reasons but reality is what i described.....And its not only you Pakistanis do the same....We are no different....I am not so glad on this artillery strike but i am glad that now you know how we feel when our country get bomb without our consent....

For a min change the title of this thread to Afghan forces request artillery from Across the border and your reaction will be changed altogether ....even if that artillery hit ****...

BTW canadians and other NATO forces use artillery in Afghanistan often.....

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## aristocrat

TaimiKhan said:


> That is how Indians operate, the reason of my first post in the thread. *As i say, we can never be friends, *



Glad we got that cleared

[


> B]just like we hate them, they hate us much more then that.[/B]



Now do u have a hate o meter to measure who hates more,or was this statement made merely as a ego soothing exercise??



> I was amazed to see one of the Indian members who does nothing on the forum other then on daily basis be the first to copy and paste terror incidents happening in Pakistan, that shows their obsession with Pakistan.



Not long ago a certain pakistani member was the lone flag beares of the naxalite thread thread we have here on pdf.Dont remeber u applying the same logic to the pakistani and chinese posters here.

And wat wrong questions did the indians ask?? They merely pointed out the fact that u urselves are turning into something that u hate most.

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## swathi

Something has to be done in Kunar province and Northern Waziristan province of pakistan, Nobody can abandon it as it is.

CC: Sher Malang: Sir are you confident that ANSF forces are capable of handling siutation in 2014? because Air support may not be there once the United States leave? My question is regarding Major combat operations? Can Afghanistan forces hold any territory preventing Infiltration from Taliban militants?. All Countries must provide maximum Aid to Afghan Security Forces.

My concern is that the Government must not collapse just like as it happened after Soviet Union withdrawl?


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## Don Jaguar

swathi said:


> Something has to be done in Kunar province and *Northern Waziristan province of Afghanistan*, Nobody can abandon it as it is.
> 
> CC: Sher Malang: Sir are you confident that ANSF forces are capable of handling siutation in 2014? because Air support may not be there once the United States leave? My question is regarding Major combat operations? Can Afghanistan forces hold any territory preventing Infiltration from Taliban militants?. All Countries must provide maximum Aid to Afghan Security Forces.
> 
> My concern is that the Government must not collapse just like as it happened after Soviet Union withdrawl?



North waziristan is an agency in Pakistan.


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## mjnaushad

swathi said:


> Something has to be done in Kunar province and* Northern Waziristan province of Afghanistan*, Nobody can abandon it as it is.
> 
> CC: Sher Malang: Sir are you confident that ANSF forces are capable of handling siutation in 2014? because Air support may not be there once the United States leave? My question is regarding Major combat operations? Can Afghanistan forces hold any territory preventing Infiltration from Taliban militants?. All Countries must provide maximum Aid to Afghan Security Forces.
> 
> My concern is that the Government must not collapse just like as it happened after Soviet Union withdrawl?



Now you know what we mean when we say "You dont know the ground realities"


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## Irfan Baloch

Sher Malang said:


> It's fine buddy! the drone strikes may not be good in the eyes of Pakistani people but don't you think your security agencies are giving intel to US? if no then it shows US has deeply penetrated the trible areas with it's informers.



how long you have spent time in the tribal areas? each and everyone knows the other person by name, by family and by profession.

the only sell out we know is that Dr Afridi. there might be more but would be only a handful.
its very hard to stay undercover and continue to be an informer for US with the head still on the shoulders.

TTP have the habit of killing people just on the suspicions. we have lost a lot of agents and pro-governments tribesmen because of this might not be the reality. cant dismiss it though.. indeed thats how some terrorists were nailed while getting pampered on the roof top 

so "deeply penetrated into tribal areas£ sounds very convincing for some keyboard warrior in America or Mumbai but

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## Bratva

Irfan Baloch said:


> how long you have spent time in the tribal areas? each and everyone knows the other person by name, by family and by profession.
> 
> the only sell out we know is that Dr Afridi. there might be more but would be only a handful.
> its very hard to stay undercover and continue to be an informer for US with the head still on the shoulders.
> 
> TTP have the habit of killing people just on the suspicions. we have lost a lot of agents and pro-governments tribesmen because of this might not be the reality. cant dismiss it though.. indeed thats how some terrorists were nailed while getting pampered on the roof top
> 
> so "deeply penetrated into tribal areas£ sounds very convincing for some keyboard warrior in America or Mumbai but



is it a possibility USA drone tracks Afghan taliban foot soldier movement from Afghanistan to North waziristan that's how they gather info on places they are going to attack?


Or whenever americans intercept Taliban communication in N.Waziristan they put a drone over that place where chatter was intercepted and than do a recce on the movement of possible terrorists through drone and where where he went they mark the place and strike through drone?

Another theory of mine is, Informers in tribal area tells american about the couriers or mid level commanders working for Haqqani or Afghan taliban and they track their position through drones and wait until they lead them to high profile target

A


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## Cheetah786

nick_indian said:


> Looks like Pakistan has become a little too trigger happy recently . I hope the NATO and Afghans don't decide to give it back . USA is particularly known to break all laws and considerations of proportionality .



NO It looks like Pakistan is finally waking up and responding to the threat as it should have from Day one as far as Americans attacking Pakistan is concerned i cant remember them attacking a nuclear state to Please India do you.


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## IceCold

I seriously think the hands of our armed forces have been severely tied that they have now retort to the use of artillery thanks to the government, otherwise a better well coordinated precision strike could be done in order to achieve the desire results and that too without the fear of collateral damage. 
TTP, BLA have long found sanctuaries in Afghanistan and the silence of this government on this grave threat specially when Afghanistan and USA regularly blame Pakistan for harboring terrorists, is in itself a committed treason.

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## Sher Malang

Don Jaguar said:


> After developing you need to maintain and keep upgrading it which is not possible with this economic condition.


 


karan.1970 said:


> 7 Billion USD..? Isnt that more than Pakistan's defence budget?


 
Sorry dudes ANSF's 2012 budget is not 7bln$ but 11.2bln$

http://asafm.army.mil/Documents/OfficeDocuments/Budget/BudgetMaterials/FY13/OCO//asff.pdf

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## Wright

Sher Malang said:


> Sorry dudes ANSF's 2012 budget is not 7bln$ but 11.2bln$
> 
> http://asafm.army.mil/Documents/OfficeDocuments/Budget/BudgetMaterials/FY13/OCO//asff.pdf



WOW. You guys might be able to get better equipment and stand up to Pakistan miltarily. A couple of F15's would be great.


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## OrionHunter

Wright said:


> It seems a two front war is possible. They are shelling Nato on one side, and India on the other.


For God's sake this ain't war but minor clashes. 

But yes, Pakistan is now facing a four front conflict -*The Western borders with Afghanistan, India toward the East, the militants within, and Americans from the sky.* That makes it tough going.

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## IceCold

*Army Chief Kayani urges ISAF Commander to curb border incursions
Updated 2 hours ago
*

RAWALPINDI: ISAF Commander, General John Allen called on Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani at General Headquarters Rawalpindi.

According to sources, General Kayani expressed serious reservations on the intrusion of militants from Afghanistan into Pakistan.

Security sources said COAS General Kayani also raised the issue of the attack on a Pakistani post by militants from Afghanistan in the Dir area.

Kayani told the ISAF Commander that NATO should take serious notice of border incursions.

Army Chief Kayani urges ISAF Commander to curb border incursions - geo.tv

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## vsdoc

OrionHunter said:


> But yes, Pakistan is now facing a four front conflict -*The Western borders with Afghanistan, India toward the East, the militants within, and Americans from the sky.* That makes it tough going.



I see the Sauds and the Iranians being added to the mix very soon as well.

I pray somewhere sometime when I am an old man, official intelligence documents get declassified, and I get to know that my country fought back.


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## Sher Malang

Wright said:


> WOW. You guys might be able to get better equipment and stand up to Pakistan miltarily. A couple of F15's would be great.


 
Afghanistan's defense strategy is defensive not offensive but we will hopefully see military contracts for jets, tanks and SAMS after 2014 once the training and infrastructure development finishes!

More than 200 pilots are under professional training in USA, Turkey and UAE! they will learn to fly various aircraft from jets to helis; more are under training in Afghanistan.

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## Sher Malang

http://www.pajhwok.com/en/2012/06/27/2-injured-fresh-pakistani-missile-strike

ASADABAD (PAN): Two more people were injured after missiles fired by Pakistani forces hit southern Kunar province of Afghanistan, officials said on Wednesday.


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## Areesh

Wright said:


> WOW. You guys might be able to get better equipment and stand up to Pakistan miltarily. A couple of F15's would be great.



Oh my God. The mighty Afghan army is going to stand up to Pakistan army. We are very scared. 

But who is going to order ANA for invasion on Pakistan. Tajik war lord? Uzbik war lord? or Pushtoon war lord? Which "chief" ANA is going to follow. 



angeldust said:


> Why is Pakistan shelling both sides of its border *indiscriminately*?
> 
> Diversionary tactics?
> 
> Releasing pressure building up internally?



Indiscriminately? We bombed military posts on the eastern front and silenced a few trigger happy guys. On western front we allegedly bombed a few sanctuaries of TTP according to intelligence reports. Where is the indiscriminate bombing buddy?


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## Icarus

Sher Malang said:


> Subscription required | Pajhwok Afghan News
> 
> ASADABAD (PAN): Two more people were injured after missiles fired by Pakistani forces hit southern Kunar province of Afghanistan, officials said on Wednesday.




Pakistan does not deploy any missile systems in FATA. Field artillery is all we have there. The Taliban use rockets though. So either it was the Taliban or the report is BS.



OrionHunter said:


> For God's sake this ain't war but minor clashes.
> 
> But yes, Pakistan is now facing a four front conflict -*The Western borders with Afghanistan, India toward the East, the militants within, and Americans from the sky.* That makes it tough going.




At the moment it's cool with the Indians and the West+Internal we can deal with. As for the Americans, they are targeting NWA, the last bastion of the Taliban on Pakistan's soil. As soon as it is cleared, the drone attacks will also cease. However, we'll be pressing it to thin if we go in now, we have to pull troops from other areas to put in NWA but then we risk the balloon effect, you press it from here and the air moves to the other side. Same with the militants, there has to be pressure on the opposite side as well.

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## VCheng

Icarus said:


> Pakistan does not deploy any missile systems in FATA. Field artillery is all we have there. The Taliban use rockets though. So either it was the Taliban or the report is BS.



Sir, popular reporting sometimes uses the wider definition of a missile, which can be _anything _that is "capable of being thrown or projected to strike a distant object", from bricks to ICBMs.


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## Icarus

VCheng said:


> Sir, popular reporting sometimes uses the wider definition of a missile, which can be _anything _that is "capable of being thrown or projected to strike a distant object", from bricks to ICBMs.




Eff-ing damn hell! I was just thinking about you! Been a while man!

As for the point in question, usually reporters can discern between artillery (commonly referred as shells) and Rocket/Missile/RPG Systems (commonly referred to as rockets) but I'm willing to accept that line of argument. However, if Pakistan is to fire 36 shells ONLY to make a point, then I am severely disappointed, our Artillery Corp is one of the finest I have seen, these boys can hit a cross marked 15 kilometres away if you give them the right co-ordinates. When they get going, they don't stop. 500 shells is the bare minimum. It's too much trouble to move your guns from their existing firing positions for 100 or so shells, 36 is just an outrage.

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## Sher Malang

Irfan Baloch said:


> how long you have spent time in the tribal areas? each and everyone knows the other person by name, by family and by profession.
> 
> the only sell out we know is that Dr Afridi. there might be more but would be only a handful.
> its very hard to stay undercover and continue to be an informer for US with the head still on the shoulders.
> 
> TTP have the habit of killing people just on the suspicions. we have lost a lot of agents and pro-governments tribesmen because of this might not be the reality. cant dismiss it though.. indeed thats how some terrorists were nailed while getting pampered on the roof top
> 
> so "deeply penetrated into tribal areas£ sounds very convincing for some keyboard warrior in America or Mumbai but



I have been couple of times to trible areas as per invitations of friends there - I have friends from Swat, Waziristan and Khyber.

It's not appropriate to put all the blame on Dr. Afridi I think he did his job nothing else but the higher authority should be blamed because why they sheltered world's 1 terrorist there or why they were not able to capture a #1 terrorist from a military compound etc.. 

By 'deeply penetrated into tribal areas' I meant if Pakistani agencies are not providing intel to US then how come drones have good targets and why Pakistan can't shoot 1 or 2 drones to show they are serious.

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## Icarus

Sher Malang said:


> It's not appropriate to put all the blame on Dr. Afridi I think he did his job nothing else but the higher authority should be blamed because why they sheltered world's 1 terrorist there or why they were not able to capture a #1 terrorist from a military compound etc..



That grossly inappropriate statement shows your grasp of the subject under discussion. 



> By 'deeply penetrated into tribal areas' I meant if Pakistani agencies are not providing intel to US then how come drones have good targets and why Pakistan can't shoot 1 or 2 drones to show they are serious.



Pakistan can't shoot 1 or 2 drones because they target the NWA where the PA has minimal strength and fire power.


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## Luftwaffe

Wright said:


> WOW. You guys might be able to get better equipment and stand up to Pakistan miltarily. A couple of F15's would be great.


 
The Height of Intelligence...

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## Sher Malang

swathi said:


> Something has to be done in Kunar province and Northern Waziristan province of pakistan, Nobody can abandon it as it is.
> 
> CC: Sher Malang: Sir are you confident that ANSF forces are capable of handling siutation in 2014? because Air support may not be there once the United States leave? My question is regarding Major combat operations? Can Afghanistan forces hold any territory preventing Infiltration from Taliban militants?. All Countries must provide maximum Aid to Afghan Security Forces.
> 
> My concern is that the Government must not collapse just like as it happened after Soviet Union withdrawl?



There is a difference between Soviet and US withdrawal; in Soviet era most of Afghans were in line with the Mujahideens and before their withdrawal most of the provinces were fallen to Mujahideen and they had direct control of the provinces and Afghan army at that time was follower of the two grand communist political parties 'Khalq' & 'Parcham' in Afghanistan that was the reason Afghan army of that time lost support from people and most of their battalions joined the Mujahideen and later their soviet supporters also left them alone along Afghanistan!

But today the situation is totally different; as per UN, US and her allies are not an invader and are here to fight terrorism, their withdrawal comes with responsibility and commitments. Today ANSF is completely out of politics they have maximum support from local people and they are newly established. We are confident because we have seen their abilities getting better day by day for e.g the places which Afghan army controlled today Afghan military police controls and the places which Afghan military police controlled today Afghan police controls and today most of the operation are taken by Afghan police and Afghan counter terrorist forces without bothering Afghan army or military police. This shows they are becoming stronger day by day.

Lets not forget that ANSF came into focus in 2008 when they had only 40.000 armed forces without training and equipments but today that number stands at 352,0000 with NATO/US standard trainings and equipments in a very short time ANSF have major achievements and in the near future their trainings will come to an end and defense ministry will shrink the size to 230,000 to 250,000 by selecting best of the best among them because defense ministry has planned to spend the rest of the budget on heavy equipments so in such time they need responsible army soldiers to use and keep those equipments at it's best possible way.

Regarding air force, small steps have been taken currently we have nearly 100 different aircraft, mostly transport helis and propellers but a bid has been announced for 20 light attack fixed wing aircraft which is enough to fight Taliban till 2016. Future of Afghan Air Force is still under shadow because defense ministry has never disclosed any information on that.

Financial commitments has been made for aiding ANSF 4.1bln$ / year and eventually we will decrease dependency on foreign aid once we practically explore mines and get income recently first major oil extraction has started in north Afghanistan which will yearly add 400mln$ / year to government budget and many more mine contracts has been awarded which might play a backbone to this government after 2014.



Icarus said:


> That grossly inappropriate statement shows your grasp of the subject under discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan can't shoot 1 or 2 drones because they target the NWA where the PA has minimal strength and fire power.


 
I see both of above lines as an excuse nothing else.

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## Awesome

Sher Malang said:


> Subscription required | Pajhwok Afghan News
> 
> ASADABAD (PAN): Two more people were injured after missiles fired by Pakistani forces hit southern Kunar province of Afghanistan, officials said on Wednesday.



There is an issue in these areas where Pakistanis are firing - I think its wrong to fire in crowded areas ALWAYS but Afghanistan and Pakistan both should jointly come to an agreement that each other won't fire on the other and the country would handle their own problems - Afghanistan of course has to ensure drone attacks end as well.

The thinking now has become that if Afghanistan allows drone attacks on us, we'll go ahead and bomb their suspected hideouts. Both sort of thinking are wrong. Afghanistan has been drone bombing us for several years now, we've just started and I hope to see both sides end simultaneously.

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## IceCold

Asim Aquil said:


> There is an issue in these areas where Pakistanis are firing - I think its wrong to fire in crowded areas ALWAYS but Afghanistan and Pakistan both should jointly come to an agreement that each other won't fire on the other and the country would handle their own problems - Afghanistan of course has to ensure drone attacks end as well.
> 
> The thinking now has become that if Afghanistan allows drone attacks on us, we'll go ahead and bomb their suspected hideouts. Both sort of thinking are wrong. Afghanistan has been drone bombing us for several years now, we've just started and I hope to see both sides end simultaneously.



There is nothing wrong in giving the enemy a befitting reply. Afghanistan has been harboring anti Pakistan elements for far too long and at the behest of the US and NATO. Though i seriously dont believe this propaganda campaign being run by the western media of us firing artillery, but its long over due for us to strike across the border. 
We should quit the apologetic attitude. This government does not have the balls to do what should have been done along ago. PAF should be called in to strike across the border. Lets see what the americans are going to do about it?

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## Pukhtoon

Sher Malang said:


> There is a difference between Soviet and US withdrawal; *in Soviet era most of Afghans were in line with the Mujahideens *and before their withdrawal most of the provinces were fallen to Mujahideen and they had direct control of the provinces and Afghan army at that time was follower of the two grand communist political parties 'Khalq' & 'Parcham' in Afghanistan that was the reason Afghan army of that time lost support from people and most of their battalions joined the Mujahideen and later their soviet supporters also left them alone along Afghanistan!
> 
> But today the situation is totally different; as per UN, US and her allies are not an invader and are here to fight terrorism, their withdrawal comes with responsibility and commitments. Today ANSF is completely out of politics they have maximum support from local people and they are newly established. We are confident because we have seen their abilities getting better day by day for e.g the places which Afghan army controlled today Afghan military police controls and the places which Afghan military police controlled today Afghan police controls and today most of the operation are taken by Afghan police and Afghan counter terrorist forces without bothering Afghan army or military police. This shows they are becoming stronger day by day.
> 
> Lets not forget that ANSF came into focus in 2008 when they had only 40.000 armed forces without training and equipments but today that number stands at 352,0000 with NATO/US standard trainings and equipments in a very short time ANSF have major achievements and in the near future their trainings will come to an end and defense ministry will shrink the size to 230,000 to 250,000 by selecting best of the best among them because defense ministry has planned to spend the rest of the budget on heavy equipments so in such time they need responsible army soldiers to use and keep those equipments at it's best possible way.
> 
> Regarding air force, small steps have been taken currently we have nearly 100 different aircraft, mostly transport helis and propellers but a bid has been announced for 20 light attack fixed wing aircraft which is enough to fight Taliban till 2016. Future of Afghan Air Force is still under shadow because defense ministry has never disclosed any information on that.
> 
> Financial commitments has been made for aiding ANSF 4.1bln$ / year and eventually we will decrease dependency on foreign aid once we practically explore mines and get income recently first major oil extraction has started in north Afghanistan which will yearly add 400mln$ / year to government budget and many more mine contracts has been awarded which might play a backbone to this government after 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> I see both of above lines as an excuse nothing else.



i Stopped reading rest of the Post. Will keep just the bold part for yr replies in the future.


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## Icarus

Sher Malang said:


> I see both of above lines as an excuse nothing else.




What did you expect in response to a post where you claim that OBL was recovered from INSIDE a military compound?


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## Pukhtoon

^^^ Ahhhh Funny na ? He got a same mentality like indians ... After all they are their Blood Brothers. And from the same culture.

|:S||

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## Tacit Wave

Afghans why you are acting like owls ?


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## TaimiKhan

Icarus said:


> What did you expect in response to a post where you claim that OBL was recovered from INSIDE a military compound?



He really said that ???

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## Sher Malang

Pukhtoon said:


> i Stopped reading rest of the Post. Will keep just the bold part for yr replies in the future.



That's girlish! read all of the post.



Pukhtoon said:


> ^^^ Ahhhh Funny na ? He got a same mentality like indians ... After all they are their Blood Brothers. And from the same culture.
> 
> |:S||


 
So in that case bin ladin was your blood brother? as long as you skip reading complete replies and be selective, you would have the same mentality.


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## Pukhtoon

TaimiKhan said:


> He really said that ???



Hahaha Here it is 



Sher Malang said:


> I have been couple of times to trible areas as per invitations of friends there - I have friends from Swat, Waziristan and Khyber.
> 
> It's not appropriate to put all the blame on Dr. Afridi I think he did his job nothing else but the higher authority should be blamed *because why they sheltered world's 1 terrorist there or why they were not able to capture a #1 terrorist from a military compound etc.*.
> 
> By 'deeply penetrated into tribal areas' I meant if Pakistani agencies are not providing intel to US then how come drones have good targets and why Pakistan can't shoot 1 or 2 drones to show they are serious.





Sher Malang said:


> That's girlish! read all of the post.



Na i am not interested. Coz i often saw yr post putting blame on PA and Pakistan for taliban and mujahideen etc..So becarefull next time coz yr own Aghwanies were also there to support them.



> So in that case bin ladin was your blood brother? as long as you skip reading complete replies and be selective, you would have the same mentality.



Bin My Bro ? Pukhtu keh wayee che zama da GINR hum na de baraber....

I said the same mentality bcoz of you said


> because why they sheltered world's 1 terrorist there or why they were not able to capture a #1 terrorist from a military compound etc


 Who told you that he was in a military compound ? 

And as you said you are pukhtun ..Put yr hand on yr heart and tell me do you believe that Osama MF was captured and killed ? or he is some where in Hawaii enjoying beach parties ?


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## Sher Malang

Pukhtoon said:


> Hahaha Here it is



Osama Bin Laden's lair in Abbottabad, military town north of Islamabad served as terror hideout - New York Daily News

Osama bin Laden found at the heart of Pakistan's military establishment - Telegraph


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## Pukhtoon

Sher Malang said:


> Osama Bin Laden's lair in Abbottabad, military town north of Islamabad served as terror hideout - New York Daily News
> 
> Osama bin Laden found at the heart of Pakistan's military establishment - Telegraph



Military town ? Or military Compound ? Ever been to Abbot Abad ? its City a huge City . And still they are saying Military town not military compound..

BTW its useless to reply to you .. Monz me na de kary dey na kha da da che monz wokam gud nite.


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## Icewolf

Good move to Pakistan.. Hit two birds with one stone. Now villagers can move from border region and also no illegal border crossing by Afghans


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## TaimiKhan

Sher Malang said:


> Osama Bin Laden's lair in Abbottabad, military town north of Islamabad served as terror hideout - New York Daily News
> 
> Osama bin Laden found at the heart of Pakistan's military establishment - Telegraph



There is one hell of a difference in a military compound and a compound in civilian area in a city which houses a military garrison.

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## Sher Malang

Pukhtoon said:


> Na i am not interested. Coz i often saw yr post putting blame on PA and Pakistan for taliban and mujahideen etc..So becarefull next time coz yr own Aghwanies were also there to support them.



Ok, be picky!



> Bin My Bro ? Pukhtu keh wayee che zama da GINR hum na de baraber....
> 
> I said the same mentality bcoz of you said Who told you that he was in a military compound ?
> 
> And as you said you are pukhtun ..Put yr hand on yr heart and tell me do you believe that Osama MF was captured and killed ? or he is some where in Hawaii enjoying beach parties ?



EXCLUSIVE: Inside the Compound Where Osama Bin Laden Was Killed | Photos - ABC News

I put my hand on my heart and tell you that I believe Osama was captured and killed as per Pakistani, Al-qaida and US sources!



Pukhtoon said:


> Military town ? Or military Compound ? Ever been to Abbot Abad ? its City a huge City . And still they are saying Military town not military compound..
> 
> BTW its useless to reply to you .. Monz me na de kary dey na kha da da che monz wokam gud nite.


 
Wudu kho awal oka!

It was a compound in military area now don't confuse yourself and it's not as huge as whole Pakistan if US can find someone in that so called huge city what Pakistani agencies lack to find?


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## TaimiKhan

Sher Malang said:


> Ok, be picky!
> 
> 
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Inside the Compound Where Osama Bin Laden Was Killed | Photos - ABC News
> 
> I put my hand on my heart and tell you that I believe Osama was captured and killed as per Pakistani, Al-qaida and US sources!
> 
> 
> 
> Wudu kho awal oka!
> 
> It was a compound in military area now don't confuse yourself and it's not as huge as whole Pakistan if US can find someone in that so called huge city what Pakistani agencies lack to find?



It was a compound not in a military area, once for all correct your facts, it was a compound in a civilian population which was near to a military garrison.


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## Awesome

IceCold said:


> There is nothing wrong in giving the enemy a befitting reply. Afghanistan has been harboring anti Pakistan elements for far too long and at the behest of the US and NATO. Though i seriously dont believe this propaganda campaign being run by the western media of us firing artillery, but its long over due for us to strike across the border.
> We should quit the apologetic attitude. This government does not have the balls to do what should have been done along ago. PAF should be called in to strike across the border. Lets see what the americans are going to do about it?



I'm not saying we should quit fighting an aggressive enemy. Our end goal must be that their people don't fire on us and our people don't fire on them. Nor should their security forces (including CIA/Nato) not fire on us and our forces not fire on them.

To this end this has to work both ways. They stop firing on us and we start ensuring there is no infiltration from our side to theirs. We stop firing on them and they ensure there is no infiltration from their side to ours.


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## Tshering22

The heat is getting more and more intense as the days pass...wonder where this would lead to soon.


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## Don Jaguar

Sher Malang said:


> Sorry dudes ANSF's 2012 budget is not 7bln$ but 11.2bln$
> 
> http://asafm.army.mil/Documents/OfficeDocuments/Budget/BudgetMaterials/FY13/OCO//asff.pdf



Ok you got money for 10 years but still you need time to develop weapon technology. In front of developed missile technology and Air force ANA is still nothing.


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## karan.1970

It will be pretty awesome having a force of 100 F15s / F 16s on the Western border of Pakistan 

Its been a quick transition from strategic depth to a hot border in under 10 years

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## Don Jaguar

karan.1970 said:


> It will be pretty awesome having a force of *100 F15s / F 16s* on the Western border of Pakistan
> 
> Its been a quick transition from strategic depth to a hot border in under 10 years



What's the source?


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## karan.1970

Don Jaguar said:


> What's the source?



Just fantasizing


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## vsdoc

karan.1970 said:


> Just fantasizing



Is it out of the realm of possibility for Afghanistan to be armed over say the next 10 year period by a combination of Indian manufactured LCA, LCH, and Arjun MBTs? Or are the Arjuns not suited to that terrain?

That in itself will be a pretty formidable force for the Afghans, would be way cheaper than anything else they could get from the international market, and would be a big boost for our industry as well.

P.S. Sher Malang, who is footing a major part of that 11.2 billion USD bill?

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## Marwat Khan Lodhi

RazPaK said:


> It happens in war.
> 
> It is a great sacrifice to rid the world of this menace once and for all.


This "great sacrifice" also happened in swat, bajaur, waziristan and other areas of pakhtunkhwa. But south punjab was spared.


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## ziaulislam

Caine said:


> Thats not what last few pages reflect.. But anyway, you are entitled to your opinion as am I..
> 
> I agree with Karan.1970 here. Terrorists, where ever they are need to be targeted. There are some civilian deaths that take place, but thats acceptable collateral damage, as not killing the terrorists, will result in many times more civilian deaths as we are seeing regularly in Pakistan itself.


you dont understand, obviuosly becuase you seem to be sitting in USA
if a single civilian is dead, this would cause birth of dozen terrorists. becuase in tribal areas a single person has over 80 cousins and dozens of uncles..alone!!
the acts in pakistan are usually a response to drone attacks. They wouldnt target us much if we leave them alone. JUST LIKE AFGHANS HAVE LEFT some TTP alone, so they arent targetting them.


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## vsdoc

Monkey D Luffy said:


> This "great sacrifice" also happened in swat, bajaur, waziristan and other areas of pakhtunkhwa. But south punjab was spared.



Good point.



ziaulislam said:


> you dont understand, obviuosly becuase you seem to be sitting in USA
> if a single civilian is dead, this would cause birth of dozen terrorists. becuase in tribal areas a single person has over 80 cousins and dozens of uncles..alone!!
> the acts in pakistan are usually a response to drone attacks. They wouldnt target us much if we leave them alone. JUST LIKE AFGHANS HAVE LEFT some TTP alone, so they arent targetting them.



The US does not want you to leave them. 

The US will not let you leave them.

That is the crux.


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## Areesh

Don Jaguar said:


> What's the source?



His wet dream.


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## Caine

ziaulislam said:


> you dont understand, obviuosly becuase you seem to be sitting in USA
> *if a single civilian is dead, this would cause birth of dozen terrorists. becuase in tribal areas a single person has over 80 cousins and dozens of uncles..alone!!
> *the acts in pakistan are usually a response to drone attacks. They wouldnt target us much if we leave them alone. JUST LIKE AFGHANS HAVE LEFT some TTP alone, so they arent targetting them.



Thats a bogus argument perpetrated by terrorist sympathizers. By your definition, 9/11 should have created 30000 terrorist suicide bombers..Get real mate. Either clean up your backyard of snakes, or we will. The only thing is that if we will, it will cost your civilian population much more than it should. But that is on the head of your leaders who refuse to act

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## Icewolf

nevermind........


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## IceCold

Caine said:


> Thats a bogus argument perpetrated by terrorist sympathizers. By your definition, 9/11 should have created 30000 terrorist suicide bombers..Get real mate. *Either clean up your backyard of snakes, or we will*. The only thing is that if we will, it will cost your civilian population much more than it should. But that is on the head of your leaders who refuse to act



You seriously don't get it now do you? the highlighted part, if you could you would have done it already. Forget Pakistan, you could not clean Afghanistan even after a decade of your presence and with all the military might. For now enjoy the drone strikes because with the new government due in next elections which will be under severe public pressure, you can kiss them goodbye too or risk an open conflict with Pakistan.



karan.1970 said:


> It will be pretty awesome having a force of 100 F15s / F 16s on the Western border of Pakistan
> 
> Its been a quick transition from strategic depth to a hot border in under 10 years



Don't get too cocky just yet. We haven't lost Afghanistan and we certainly won't tolerate anything less then a friendly regime in Afghanistan. We don't mind them having fancy toys but not at our expense.

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## Icarus

Caine said:


> Thats a bogus argument perpetrated by terrorist sympathizers. By your definition, 9/11 should have created 30000 terrorist suicide bombers..Get real mate. Either clean up your backyard of snakes, or we will. The only thing is that if we will, it will cost your civilian population much more than it should. But that is on the head of your leaders who refuse to act



Pakistan is not Afghanistan or Iraq buddy, if you decide to 'Clean our backyard for us' I assure you, you will run out of place to bury your dead. This is a nation of 180 Million people highly opinionative people, all with plenty of ammo stocked up. All this ammo may have its down sides but when and if this nation has ever found itself in trouble, every house has turned into a fortress and every man into a soldier. Your policy makers know that, that's why we are still a free country unlike your other victims of aggression, its best that you get that through your skull as well.

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## Luftwaffe

Caine said:


> Thats a bogus argument perpetrated by terrorist sympathizers. By your definition, 9/11 should have created 30000 terrorist suicide bombers..Get real mate. Either clean up your backyard of snakes, or we will. The only thing is that if we will, it will cost your civilian population much more than it should. But that is on the head of your leaders who refuse to act



Seriously...you justin bieber...what did you guys do in the past 11 Years in Afghanistan, did you clean up. 

You still did not get it, wakeup 9/11 has created 0.3 million terrorists spanning from Iraq-afghanistan-Libya-Syria-Turkey-Yemen-saudi arabia including CIA-ANA-Mi-RAW..

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## Icarus

Luftwaffe said:


> Seriously...you justin bieber...what did you guys do in the past 11 Years in Afghanistan, did you clean up.
> 
> You still did not get it, wakeup 9/11 has created 0.3 million terrorists spanning from Iraq-afghanistan-Libya-Syria-Turkey-Yemen-saudi arabia including CIA-ANA-Mi-RAW..




I loled so hard when I read that!

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## Irfan Baloch

Caine said:


> Thats a bogus argument perpetrated by terrorist sympathizers. By your definition, 9/11 should have created 30000 terrorist suicide bombers..Get real mate. *Either clean up your backyard of snakes, or we will.* The only thing is that if we will, it will cost your civilian population much more than it should. But that is on the head of your leaders who refuse to act



how?

would you attack Kabul this time or go to China this time?

clueless leadership
clueless military
clueless fanboys
clueless nationalized citizens


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## VCheng

Icarus said:


> Pakistan is not Afghanistan or Iraq buddy, if you decide to 'Clean our backyard for us' I assure you, you will run out of place to bury your dead. This is a nation of 180 Million people highly opinionative people, all with plenty of ammo stocked up. All this ammo may have its down sides but when and *if this nation has ever found itself in trouble, every house has turned into a fortress and every man into a soldier.* Your policy makers know that, that's why we are still a free country unlike your other victims of aggression, its best that you get that through your skull as well.



It would be best to avoid such a situation in the first place by astute policies.


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## Caine

Icarus said:


> Pakistan is not Afghanistan or Iraq buddy, if you decide to 'Clean our backyard for us' I assure you, you will run out of place to bury your dead. This is a nation of 180 Million people highly opinionative people, all with plenty of ammo stocked up. All this ammo may have its down sides but when and if this nation has ever found itself in trouble, every house has turned into a fortress and every man into a soldier. Your policy makers know that, that's why we are still a free country unlike your other victims of aggression, its best that you get that through your skull as well.



Why do you folks always jump on the assumption of a military invasion. Invading a Nuclear power and that too a democracy is a recipe for the worst kind of disaster. And the relationship between USA and Pakistan is far from it. There are many ways to achieve what I said. Pakistan forces will play a big role in either approach. However, what will differ in the two approaches is around who is leading the charge. If the operation is led by Pakistan, the internal damage to Pakistani civilians and society will be much lower. The same is seen at a smaller scale thru drone attacks that generate a huge amount of bad blood. While PAF attacks using jets and helis rarely result in a backlash.



Luftwaffe said:


> Seriously...you justin bieber...what did you guys do in the past 11 Years in Afghanistan, did you clean up.


Oh Yes. We did mate.. How many attacks did you see happening on American interests in last 10 years? That's enough of a clean up for us. It all depends upon the definition of objectives. We have managed to keep it away from our shores and contained in and around the area of its origin. That's pretty good as far as USA is concerned. Our only interests in Pakistan is restricted to the groups that may eventually threaten American interests. Once they are gone, do you think USA really cares what happens between you, Afghanistan and even India?




Luftwaffe said:


> You still did not get it, wakeup 9/11 has created 0.3 million terrorists spanning from Iraq-afghanistan-Libya-Syria-Turkey-Yemen-saudi arabia including CIA-ANA-Mi-RAW..



You did not make any sense here.



Irfan Baloch said:


> how?
> 
> would you attack Kabul this time or go to China this time?
> 
> clueless leadership
> clueless military
> clueless fanboys
> clueless nationalized citizens



A bunch of you is over reacting I guess..


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## Haseebullah

As long as no one innocent is intentionally harmed,CARRY ON!


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## Haseebullah

Caine said:


> *Once they are gone, do you think USA really cares what happens between you, Afghanistan and even India?*
> .


No we don't,but you claim to care.So you mean to tell my Afghani brothers here that after ruining the whole lace you would not give a damn about what happens?
Surely reflects your American mindset!


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## Imran Khan

Sher Malang said:


> Sorry dudes ANSF's 2012 budget is not 7bln$ but 11.2bln$
> 
> http://asafm.army.mil/Documents/OfficeDocuments/Budget/BudgetMaterials/FY13/OCO//asff.pdf



and what was afghan total budget sir ?

Budget:

revenues: $1.58 billion
expenditures: $3.3 billion
note: Afghanistan received AID $15.7 billion in 2010/2011 (2011 est.)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/af.html


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## Abu Zolfiqar

one wrong move from Afghanistan, we will soon be neighbours with the Tajiks and Uzbeks

they really are pusing their luck; we'll see how long they fare post 2014


time for Pakistanis to stop being push-over idiots.....you see an illegal Afghan, report them. They are nothing but trouble.


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## Imran Khan

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> one wrong move from Afghanistan, we will soon be neighbours with the Tajiks and Uzbeks
> 
> they really are pusing their luck; we'll see how long they fare post 2014
> 
> 
> time for Pakistanis to stop being push-over idiots.....you see an illegal Afghan, report them. They are nothing but trouble.



they marge in society now its hard to find few start business get hell rich here and they cover others


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## Abu Zolfiqar

you seem them, just report them.....

thats what ive started telling people in Peshawar and Kurram. 


they are nothing but daylight robbers who beg with one hand and steal with the other....we are not a rich country, we cant even take care of our own under-priveleged 

so why should we care about these afghans......pay them rs. 100 and they'll do the work of the devil, against Pakistan


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