# Russia's UAC may deliver fighter jets to Bangladesh



## bluesky

http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.c...'s-UAC-may-deliver-fighter-jets-to-Bangladesh
03 Mar 2017, 21:43:08
*Russia's UAC may deliver fighter jets to Bangladesh*




Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) with its advanced MiG-35 fighter jets is one of the key candidates to win a contract to deliver eight multi-role combat aircraft to the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF), said an official representative of Russia’s Centre for Analysis of World Arms trade (CAWAT).

"United Aircraft Corporation with Su-35, MiG-35 and Su-30SM fighters is the main candidate to win the contract," said the representative to Russian news agency Sputnik on Friday.

Bangladesh’s Directorate General for Defence Purchase announced on its website it was interested in the acquisition of eight Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) in the financial year 2017-2018, with an option of purchasing *additional four aircraft in the future*, according to the document.

The Bangladeshi Air Force already has Russian MiG-29S fighters in operation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blue Marlin

bluesky said:


> http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.c...'s-UAC-may-deliver-fighter-jets-to-Bangladesh
> 03 Mar 2017, 21:43:08
> *Russia's UAC may deliver fighter jets to Bangladesh*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) with its advanced MiG-35 fighter jets is one of the key candidates to win a contract to deliver eight multi-role combat aircraft to the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF), said an official representative of Russia’s Centre for Analysis of World Arms trade (CAWAT).
> 
> "United Aircraft Corporation with Su-35, MiG-35 and Su-30SM fighters is the main candidate to win the contract," said the representative to Russian news agency Sputnik on Friday.
> 
> Bangladesh’s Directorate General for Defence Purchase announced on its website it was interested in the acquisition of eight Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) in the financial year 2017-2018, with an option of purchasing additional four aircraft in the future, according to the document.
> 
> The Bangladeshi Air Force already has Russian MiG-29S fighters in operation.


i feel as if they dont want to offer the mig 29 as its now old and phased out and will push for the mig-35, and once/if they get a deal they will be in a good position to offer upgrades to Bangladesh's current mig 29 fleet.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## bluesky

It is made in Russia, no doubt now. Someone with good knowledge of the specs., please let us know which of the three types of jets the BAF will purchase.


----------



## Exiled_Soldier

Blue Marlin said:


> i feel as if they dont want to offer the mig 29 as its now old and phased out and will push for the mig-35



They phased out Mig 29 according to the requirements of BAF. Because of increased payload, more hardpoints and increased detection range of ESA radar, Mig 29 goes out of picture.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The SC

SU-30MS should be a good choice, they work perfectly with the Mig-29S.. But Mig-35 as a second choice should be good enough too..

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## rome333

This time it may be Su 30/35. Mig 35 may take till 2020-2021 for BD as its not under production yet and there are also existing orders. BD most probably would like to have some birds by 2019.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Species

rome333 said:


> This time it may be Su 30/35. Mig 35 may take till 2020-2021 for BD as its not under production yet and there are also existing orders. BD most probably would like to have some birds by 2019.



Su 35 is also in the radar as per the international reports, that makes it interesting.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## bd_4_ever

I really want to see SUs - a beast in the sky for sure! 2-3 squadrons of SUs would be enough for us in the long run, coupled with J-series from China.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## rome333

Species said:


> Su 35 is also in the radar as per the international reports, that makes it interesting.


As per report Mig 35 sould go for production in 2018. Then there is no way we gonna get prioritized delivery with only a order size of 8. As for between Su30/35, some conditions may be relaxed during final negociation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TopCat

UAC is desperate make some sales.


----------



## bd_4_ever

TopCat said:


> UAC is desperate make some sales.



And we should take benefit of that.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## rome333

JF17 block 2's KLJ-7V2 radar detection range is 100+km. It can also house C-802A which has a far greater range. 
There was a lot of hype before this tender that we were about to get 8 Mig 29m to complete the squadron. Now it can be seen that BD has moved its priorities towards more range, radar and payload this time. Seems more like emphasizing naval engagement capabilities. Which again seems like countering MM's recent acquisition of JF17 with naval strike capability.


----------



## Gandh brandi

TopCat said:


> UAC is desperate make some sales.


You mean MiG right? UAC is the parent company. Sukhoi, MiG are the subsidiaries. Sukhois are still selling. MiGs are not. So it figures that since we're getting only 8, we would piggyback off Egypt's 40+ order production line.


----------



## TopCat

Sybaris Caeser said:


> You mean MiG right? UAC is the parent company. Sukhoi, MiG are the subsidiaries. Sukhois are still selling. MiGs are not. So it figures that since we're getting only 8, we would piggyback off Egypt's 40+ order production line.


ya, they will try to shove the mig as it is trying to survive.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Sybaris Caeser said:


> You mean MiG right? UAC is the parent company. Sukhoi, MiG are the subsidiaries. Sukhois are still selling. MiGs are not. So it figures that since we're getting only 8, we would piggyback off Egypt's 40+ order production line.


sukhois sales stalled too... in recent years... the only sales has been to is russia...


i would be so surprised to see something like su-35... when it is the much more bigger brother of the su-30.
(in terms of payload, range etc) i would be happy to see su-30sm too.... but mig 35 is not happening and that's for sure.... not until it meets the requirements


----------



## bluesky

rome333 said:


> JF17 block 2's KLJ-7V2 radar detection range is 100+km. It can also house C-802A which has a far greater range.
> There was a lot of hype before this tender that we were about to get 8 Mig 29m to complete the squadron. Now it can be seen that BD has moved its priorities towards more range, radar and payload this time. Seems more like emphasizing naval engagement capabilities. Which again seems like countering MM's recent acquisition of JF17 with naval strike capability.


But, I have read somewhere JF-17 speed is a maximum 1.6 mach and it also has a drag problem. JF-17 needs also a longer than normal time to reach a certain elevation in the sky. I do not know if it uses Chinese engines or not. Whatever we say, Chinese engines have not yet been perfected like the western ones. Even China itself uses Russian jet engines to its own PLAAF planes.


----------



## Syed Asif Bukhari

bluesky said:


> But, I have read somewhere JF-17 speed is a maximum 1.6 mach and it also has a drag problem. JF-17 needs also a longer than normal time to reach a certain elevation in the sky. I do not know if it uses Chinese engines or not. Whatever we say, Chinese engines have not yet been perfected like the western ones. Even China itself uses Russian jet engines to its own PLAAF planes.


JF 17 has Russian RD 93 turbofan engines and newer blocks will get the more latest Rd 33 engines .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## rome333

Very interesting point I just came across. Credit goes to Md.Shahriar.
As per tender doc section 29 Cockpit, it looks like the aircraft have to be a two-seater . If that's the case then we all can say goodbye to Su 35. Only Mig35 and Su30 remains. Again according to somebody who himself came to know from a C130 pilot that a different variant of Su30 is chosen by BAF. True or False....Time will tell.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Arsalan 345

Buy su-35.it's the best.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Major 13625

love to see su 35s

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## omega supremme

The SC said:


> SU-30MS should be a good choice, they work perfectly with the Mig-29S.. But Mig-35 as a second choice should be good enough too..





I doubt Bangladesh will go for SU 30 as india already has it rather they will go for SU 35 or MIG 35.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Russell

rome333 said:


> Very interesting point I just came across. Credit goes to Md.Shahriar.
> As per tender doc section 29 Cockpit,* it looks like the aircraft have to be a two-seater . *If that's the case then we all can say goodbye to Su 35. Only Mig35 and Su30 remains. Again according to somebody who himself came to know from a C130 pilot that a different variant of Su30 is chosen by BAF. True or False....Time will tell.
> 
> View attachment 381654



No it doesn't HAVE to be a 2 seater....if every instance, Dual version is mentioned separately - meaning the specification ALSO applies to that...for example:

Head Up Display (HUD). The HUD should be of improved version integrated with airborne multimode and fire control radar, navigation computer, ADC, Store Management System and HOTAS. *Additional display monitor/ viewing system are to be incorporated in the rear cockpit (dual version).*

_additional viewing system to be incorporated for the dual version_

Escape System. Must be installed with type tested „Zero-Zero‟ Escape system (Ejection Seat). The seat must be equipped with all seat cartridges/ballistics and survival kits. Ejection seat must have the provision of vertical adjustment for seat pan and include auto harness release unit, auto survival kit deployment and auto life raft inflation. Survival kits of the seat must be suitable for both sea and jungle survival. One set spare seat cartridges/ballistics is to be supplied with each of the ejection seat for first replacement. The seat is to have a service life same as aircraft life. Periodicity of cartridge replacement should not be less than 03 (three) years. Longer cartridge life is desirable.* It must have command ejection system from both the cockpit in case of dual version aircraft.*

_in case of dual version aircraft
_
h. In dual version aircraft the rear cockpit may have sighting and weaponry facilities.

_in dual version aircraft
_
92. Acceptance Check Flight. Functional test flight is to be carried out by manufacturer. 03 (three) Acceptance check flight will be carried out by BAF pilot after the functional test flight. 02 (three) joint Functional Check Flight will be carried out by *BAF and supplier‟s pilot in case of dual seat aircraft.*

_in case of dual seat aircraft_

and so on and so on....

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Major 13625

omega supremme said:


> I doubt Bangladesh will go for SU 30 as india already has it rather they will go for SU 35 or MIG 35.


there has to be 3 international operators! none of mig 35 or su 35 meets that.


----------



## Kailash Rava

Major 13625 said:


> there has to be 3 international operators! none of mig 35 or su 35 meets that.


That mean SU-30 ..IT MEETS all the requirement given by the B.A.F

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Major 13625

Kailash Rava said:


> That mean SU-30 ..IT MEETS all the requirement given by the B.A.F


yes and if the su 30 has an AESA radar. BAF asks for it.


----------



## Zabaniyah

Major 13625 said:


> yes and if the su 30 has an AESA radar. BAF asks for it.



I'd be surprised if they get AESA. The Egyptians won't be getting it on the MiG-35's (so I'm told). 

AESA radars on fighter aircraft are not as common as people assume.


----------



## Major 13625

Loki said:


> I'd be surprised if they get AESA. The Egyptians won't be getting it on the MiG-35's (so I'm told).
> 
> AESA radars on fighter aircraft are not as common as people assume.


yea absolutely right. those requirements are pretty much foggy!


----------



## ziaulislam

bluesky said:


> But, I have read somewhere JF-17 speed is a maximum 1.6 mach and it also has a drag problem. JF-17 needs also a longer than normal time to reach a certain elevation in the sky. I do not know if it uses Chinese engines or not. Whatever we say, Chinese engines have not yet been perfected like the western ones. Even China itself uses Russian jet engines to its own PLAAF planes.


DSI limit max speed, the same way it limit f-35 speed to 1.6-1.8 depending upon altitude
the same way convention aircraft with mechanical inlet speed is limited to around 2.0-2.2 mach
there is no issue in acceleration, its thrust tow eight ratio is >1
very high speed has no relevance in current age, you cant fly high and fast too avoid radars as u used to

reliability, cost is the reason for russian vs chinese engine. why would china develop an engine and perfect it if they are not going to use in large scale

russia even now wanted to import mistral amphibious ships, are you telling me they cant build ships?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arthur

Loki said:


> I'd be surprised if they get AESA. The Egyptians won't be getting it on the MiG-35's (so I'm told).
> 
> AESA radars on fighter aircraft are not as common as people assume.


It's called Mig 29m2. The difference between the two is an AESA radar. The variant carrying AESA is called Mig35.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> But, I have read somewhere JF-17 speed is a maximum 1.6 mach and it also has a drag problem. JF-17 needs also a longer than normal time to reach a certain elevation in the sky. I do not know if it uses Chinese engines or not. Whatever we say, Chinese engines have not yet been perfected like the western ones. Even China itself uses Russian jet engines to its own PLAAF planes.


the problem with drag has been eliminated... max is 1.6 still... and it bleeds energy fast...
basically the powertrain is not suitable for it.... maybe the engines saab uses would have suited it... but the air frame is designed around rd33 so they're stuck with that on block 1-2



rome333 said:


> Very interesting point I just came across. Credit goes to Md.Shahriar.
> As per tender doc section 29 Cockpit, it looks like the aircraft have to be a two-seater . If that's the case then we all can say goodbye to Su 35. Only Mig35 and Su30 remains. Again according to somebody who himself came to know from a C130 pilot that a different variant of Su30 is chosen by BAF. True or False....Time will tell.
> 
> View attachment 381654


i am glad you noticed.... no one mentioned this while we were talking on the other thread. but it doesnt have to be a twin seater jet.... just a seperate requirement



Major 13625 said:


> yes and if the su 30 has an AESA radar. BAF asks for it.


su-30 sm can be installed with a aesa radar



Loki said:


> I'd be surprised if they get AESA. The Egyptians won't be getting it on the MiG-35's (so I'm told).
> 
> AESA radars on fighter aircraft are not as common as people assume.


egypt wont be getting because... israel!
israel and russia have some form of understanding when weapons are sold to the arabs.... arabs always buy these to f up the region



Khan saheb said:


> It's called Mig 29m2. The difference between the two is an AESA radar. The variant carrying AESA is called Mig35.


but the egyptians are ordering 50 mig 35 if i am correct!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Species

omega supremme said:


> I doubt Bangladesh will go for SU 30 as india already has it rather they will go for SU 35 or MIG 35.



We can always go for variants other than the MKI.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Species said:


> We can always go for variants other than the MKI.


mki is for india... why would bangladesh buy something tailor made for them... lol


----------



## bluesky

Russell said:


> No it doesn't HAVE to be a 2 seater



Please read attachment #381654. 2-seat cockpit is clearly written. So, the plane must be a 2-seat one. We have to do our guessing on the basis of specifications. By the way, the opening news also says there will be an additional four planes in the near future.


----------



## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> mki is for india... why would bangladesh buy something tailor made for them... lol



Call it MKB....and you would probably ask for 0 Israeli avionics and systems  

Your loss in my opinion....on that but can't see anything else being too much different past the name (similar to difference between MKM and MKI).


----------



## Species

Mohammed Khaled said:


> mki is for india... why would bangladesh buy something tailor made for them... lol



That's what I said, we can go for variants 'other than' the MKI. And MKIs are only manufactured in India so there is a quality issue as well.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> Call it MKB....and you would probably ask for 0 Israeli avionics and systems
> 
> Your loss in my opinion....on that but can't see anything else being too much different past the name (similar to difference between MKM and MKI).


Your jets mission requirement is very different than ours


----------



## Chhatrapati

omega supremme said:


> I doubt Bangladesh will go for SU 30 as india already has it rather they will go for SU 35 or MIG 35.


We are not seeing Bangladesh as a potential threat.


Species said:


> That's what I said, we can go for variants 'other than' the MKI. And MKIs are only manufactured in India so there is a quality issue as well.


No matter what you buy man. Many Sukhoi parts are 'Made in India' You better scrap the deal.


----------



## omega supremme

SOUTHie said:


> We are not seeing Bangladesh as a potential threat.





But, the way Bangladeshi members talk in this forum, it seems they consider you people more of a threat than the Myanmar.


----------



## ghazi768

bluesky said:


> But, I have read somewhere JF-17 speed is a maximum 1.6 mach and it also has a drag problem. JF-17 needs also a longer than normal time to reach a certain elevation in the sky. I do not know if it uses Chinese engines or not. Whatever we say, Chinese engines have not yet been perfected like the western ones. Even China itself uses Russian jet engines to its own PLAAF planes.


I think you do not know much about aircrafts and what you read is incorrect..

mach 1.6 is not the maximum speed.. basically above a certain speed a DSI does not remain 'efficient'.. it is not a speed limit. Also not remaining efficient do not automatically entail that such supersonic speed will result in harm to engine, speeds which can increase risk of damage to turbine and blades are much higher and depends on the inlet design. E.g. F-16, which has a fixed geometry inlet not even a DSI can easily go past mach 2.0, the reason 2.0 is mentioned as speed limit for F-16s is because of risk of its bubble canopy deformation at higher speeds but trust me there are those who took a F-16 to higher speeds with ease..

Also comparing Jf-17 in drag to a Mig-29 is an insult..if you knew better.. Mig-29 is famous for its slower accelerations and got played around even by bulky F-111s and tornados during first gulf war, when encountered it was unable to catch up with them. And western experts debated for ages, before checking it out, about increased drag because of its unusual skin.


----------



## Michael Corleone

ghazi768 said:


> I think you do not know much about aircrafts and what you read is incorrect..
> 
> mach 1.6 is not the maximum speed.. basically above a certain speed a DSI does not remain 'efficient'.. it is not a speed limit. Also not remaining efficient do not automatically entail that such supersonic speed will result in harm to engine, speeds which can increase risk of damage to turbine and blades are much higher and depends on the inlet design. E.g. F-16, which has a fixed geometry inlet not even a DSI can easily go past mach 2.0, the reason 2.0 is mentioned as speed limit for F-16s is because of risk of its bubble canopy deformation at higher speeds but trust me there are those who took a F-16 to higher speeds with ease..
> 
> Also comparing Jf-17 in drag to a Mig-29 is an insult..if you knew better.. Mig-29 is famous for its slower accelerations and got played around even by bulky F-111s and tornados during first gulf war, when encountered it was unable to catch up with them. And western experts debated for ages, before checking it out, about increased drag because of its unusual skin.


mig 29 has slower accelarations? 
lmao iraqis were extremely inefficient in fighters other than mig 29... like mig 21 for example.. f-7s etc...

where as pakistanis have excelled with those very planes and even worse ones.... so saying mig 29 has poor accelerations while also stating, comparing it with jf-17 is an insult because jf-17 is much better fighter... states that jf-17 is better than f-16... a fighter that is a direct competitor to mig 29... a fighter which even a year back until refused by the US was in your purchase list. 

maybe it is an insult comparing your jf-17 to mig 29... i would put it in the range of mig 21... being a much evolved successor... and on equal terms with tejas... although i am not a big fan of tejas itself! certainly not the leagues of JAS gripen.


----------



## ghazi768

Mohammed Khaled said:


> mig 29 has slower accelarations?
> lmao iraqis were extremely inefficient in fighters other than mig 29... like mig 21 for example.. f-7s etc...
> 
> where as pakistanis have excelled with those very planes and even worse ones.... so saying mig 29 has poor accelerations while also stating, comparing it with jf-17 is an insult because jf-17 is much better fighter... states that jf-17 is better than f-16... a fighter that is a direct competitor to mig 29... a fighter which even a year back until refused by the US was in your purchase list.
> 
> maybe it is an insult comparing your jf-17 to mig 29... i would put it in the range of mig 21... being a much evolved successor... and on equal terms with tejas... although i am not a big fan of tejas itself! certainly not the leagues of JAS gripen.


How much bloody in-efficient a pilot has to be if the only thing he need to do to gain speed is to push the throttle. Have some intelligence, I was comparing acceleration and speed of JF-17 and Mig-29, not Mig-19 and F-16. I think you may have the brains enough to not compare F-16 vis a vis Mig-29 in speed and acceleration.

Mig-29, a direct competitor of F-16.. is it a joke?


----------



## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Your jets mission requirement is very different than ours



I am saying if its SU-30 MK there is only so much options to meet any "requirement".

No one is going to change the tooling and die base and majority of standard options for just an 8 aircraft order.

You only need sit back and watch. A few things will be excluded and replaced because of "Israel" politics just like Malaysia did with their MKM.....little else.....and maybe you lot will still laud it being wholly "different" on "requirements"....who knows. Anyone following military aviation knows better, that too if an 8 order purchase even literally registers on the radar to begin with.

Its 8 frigging aircraft....chump change....no one's changing anything drastic to meet your "requirements" from the base SU-30 MK model.....so it definitely is not going to be anything too different from MKI and MKM. If you want to keep it as close to MK as possible, you will simply get a cookie cutter export MKK....who's envelope of performance is even somewhat inferior to the previous 2.


----------



## ziaulislam

ghazi768 said:


> How much bloody in-efficient a pilot has to be if the only thing he need to do to gain speed is to push the throttle. Have some intelligence, I was comparing acceleration and speed of JF-17 and Mig-29, not Mig-19 and F-16. I think you may have the brains enough to not compare F-16 vis a vis Mig-29 in speed and acceleration.
> 
> Mig-29, a direct competitor of F-16.. is it a joke?


you can easily tell the about amatuers here
mig 29 was trolled in every fight, you can expect every nation pilots to be idiots, this was true for serbia as well
point here is not understanding simple fact that DSI has advantages in its low weight, efficiency and the fact that Rd 93 simple thrust is better than engine on gripen and even earlier versions of mirage2000!


----------



## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> I am saying if its SU-30 MK there is only so much options to meet any "requirement".
> 
> No one is going to change the tooling and die base and majority of standard options for just an 8 aircraft order.
> 
> You only need sit back and watch. A few things will be excluded and replaced because of "Israel" politics just like Malaysia did with their MKM.....little else.....and maybe you lot will still laud it being wholly "different" on "requirements"....who knows. Anyone following military aviation knows better, that too if an 8 order purchase even literally registers on the radar to begin with.
> 
> Its 8 frigging aircraft....chump change....no one's changing anything drastic to meet your "requirements" from the base SU-30 MK model.....so it definitely is not going to be anything too different from MKI and MKM. If you want to keep it as close to MK as possible, you will simply get a cookie cutter export MKK....who's envelope of performance is even somewhat inferior to the previous 2.


true... but i wonder how the deal will come to be... .will their be options to add the same models in future sqd... as our requirement calls for? maybe we'll just get like the malaysians or maybe go china route... get inferior radars to avoid getting canards increasing payload in the process....



ghazi768 said:


> How much bloody in-efficient a pilot has to be if the only thing he need to do to gain speed is to push the throttle. Have some intelligence, I was comparing acceleration and speed of JF-17 and Mig-29, not Mig-19 and F-16. I think you may have the brains enough to not compare F-16 vis a vis Mig-29 in speed and acceleration.
> 
> Mig-29, a direct competitor of F-16.. is it a joke?


first off wasnt talking about mig 19.... so read carefully/.... 
second without getting into arguments and fanboying... my question to you is... what was mig 29 designed to go up against back in the soviet days?


----------



## Tehari_Haleem

If we're going the Su-30 path, Taking the Algerian route of replacing all Israeli avionics of Su-30MKI with French ones and calling it MKA seems like the logical path we should take...unless Hasina's daughter-in-law gets to put her input on the matter


----------



## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> true... but i wonder how the deal will come to be... .will their be options to add the same models in future sqd... as our requirement calls for?



Well like I said, lets sit back and see. No idea what exact customisation BD will take past the general guesses (of definitely no israeli stuff, probably no indian stuff etc).

You will probably go full russian cookie cutter model if I had to guess (what irkutsk factory provides in basic airframe and what russian industry can provide regarding radars, avionics, weapons package etc). Its overall cheapest integration that way and you have only one country to deal with if you want future airframes down the road. 

Or you can basically take MKM as the model and ask Russia to integrate according to that, it has been done on many MK variants now (heritage has been established)....but you will need to approach the French OEM suppliers each time you want more aircraft, and the russians will charge you on top for integrating foreign components. How much extra performance those add compared to the price (compared to going full Russian on everything), thats for BD to take a judgement call on. Any fundamentally new OEM component source past the French will add even more time and expense for clearances, testing, adaptation and final integration and flightworthiness certificate to be issued by the Russians. This was the reason MKI took a while in the beginning and there was a Su-30 K stop gap acquisition.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> Well like I said, lets sit back and see. No idea what exact customisation BD will take past the general guesses (of definitely no israeli stuff, probably no indian stuff etc).
> 
> You will probably go full russian cookie cutter model if I had to guess (what irkutsk factory provides in basic airframe and what russian industry can provide regarding radars, avionics, weapons package etc). Its overall cheapest integration that way and you have only one country to deal with if you want future airframes down the road.
> 
> Or you can basically take MKM as the model and ask Russia to integrate according to that, it has been done on many MK variants now (heritage has been established)....but you will need to approach the French OEM suppliers each time you want more aircraft, and the russians will charge you on top for integrating foreign components. How much extra performance those add compared to the price (compared to going full Russian on everything), thats for BD to take a judgement call on. Any fundamentally new OEM component source past the French will add even more time and expense for clearances, testing, adaptation and final integration and flightworthiness certificate to be issued by the Russians. This was the reason MKI took a while in the beginning and there was a Su-30 K stop gap acquisition.


sm models come with better avionics doesnt it? i mean french radars? oh there is also a partnership with irkut regarding manufacturing of avionics in bd.... maybe that had something to do with this who knows/

anyways.... haven't the russian avionics and electronics come on par with western system nowadays... there was praise articles on su-35 and pak fa and russian electronics disabling a US warship some years back.... can you put in some details if you know?


----------



## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> sm models come with better avionics doesnt it? i mean french radars? oh there is also a partnership with irkut regarding manufacturing of avionics in bd.... maybe that had something to do with this who knows/
> 
> anyways.... haven't the russian avionics and electronics come on par with western system nowadays... there was praise articles on su-35 and pak fa and russian electronics disabling a US warship some years back.... can you put in some details if you know?



Yah you could go for SM, get off the shelf from what they are making for Russian Airforce....just make sure everything labelled in English/Bengali 

Thats not a bad idea at all, probably might be what happen. It would be easy for BD to overhaul them in Russia too when needed given Russia would already be doing the same for their own....and nothing would really have to be changed.

Russian avionics and electronics are not really "at par" overall. Some areas they are very close...others still some way behind (esp in terms of efficiency). When efficiency doesn't really matter (and you have a massive Fencer or something who's only purpose is to broadband jam), you can make some pretty potent jamming/EW platforms since you just scale up the size with the tech you have while ensuring the bird stays flyable basically. The reports of one jamming a US aegis destroyer I find hard to believe given how the aegis system works (not to mention in a real conflict good luck getting that close)...so it may have been some propaganda there. But the system is nonetheless potent on paper....just like the AK-47 does its job good though its not recent recent "modern".

But its not really indicative of the quality of russian electronics in that field (or other fields which can be unrelated to radars/EW). In basic avionics and also standard radars, you aren't really getting the absolute top of the line that you will find in the west (which accelerated their RnD during the 90s when Russia was reeling from the soviet breakup and financial problems and thus maintain an appreciable advantage especially per weight/volume which is crucial in aerospace), but they are generally very decent from Russia given they have their own heritage in these design fields.

There are even a few advantages they have over others from time to time given the various quirks they have in their design philosophy (which is only natural, enough scientists and engineers with the same objectives and inputs will come to the same design 95% of the time....but the 5% difference can have some randomized spread in good and bad that makes things interesting). But you essentially need to be in the game long enough for this variation/branching to occur (otherwise you are generally busy catching up with the 95% stuff).

Same applies to stand-alone, user ready, military aircraft engines. 2nd place doesnt sound so good as 1st....but there really are very few that have qualified in the multi-discipline competition to begin with....so competing and placing in the medals is no easy feat.


----------



## ghazi768

Mohammed Khaled said:


> first off wasnt talking about mig 19.... so read carefully/....
> second without getting into arguments and fanboying... my question to you is... what was mig 29 designed to go up against back in the soviet days?


That was a typo, I thought you had the brains to see that..

To throw the best $hit you have against the competition does not make that $hit a 'competitor'.


----------



## BRITISH

we should sell jf 17 to BAF and make BAf strong then they can hold india


----------



## Chhatrapati

omega supremme said:


> But, the way Bangladeshi members talk in this forum, it seems they consider you people more of a threat than the Myanmar.



PDForum has a wide range of people. Some are fake Bangladeshi, fake Indians, Fake Paks, fake Chinese and so on. Some even have anti-Indian views. Which we don't mind at all.
So, instead of believing what forum members say, look into reality.


----------



## Nabil365

BRITISH said:


> we should sell jf 17 to BAF and make BAf strong then they can hold india


How about free?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Michael Corleone

ghazi768 said:


> That was a typo, I thought you had the brains to see that..
> 
> To throw the best $hit you have against the competition does not make that $hit a 'competitor'.


Dude... f-16 is more like a cheaper support to f-15... mig 29 is air superiority fighter. It has higher rate of clImb, turn etc etc! In medium range combat. When two basic versions are compared without taking into account later mig 29 improvements... f-16 has the edge. Wvr mig 29 has the edge...

Now talking some more sense into you... helmet mounted missile lock... BVR etc, we have those in our version of the jet! So the advantage f-16 has over mig 29 in medium range is nullified! It's foolish to compare two different class of fighters! There's no comparison.


----------



## ghazi768

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Dude... f-16 is more like a cheaper support to f-15... mig 29 is air superiority fighter. It has higher rate of clImb, turn etc etc! In medium range combat. When two basic versions are compared without taking into account later mig 29 improvements... f-16 has the edge. Wvr mig 29 has the edge...
> 
> Now talking some more sense into you... helmet mounted missile lock... BVR etc, we have those in our version of the jet! So the advantage f-16 has over mig 29 in medium range is nullified! It's foolish to compare two different class of fighters! There's no comparison.



come on! now do not be an idiot.. Mig 29, an air superiority fighter and comparable to F-15.. you keep ticking up this fighter in each post. What will you make it competitor to in your next post.. F-22 because Mig-29 is still the short range interceptors for Russian airforce and the one to end up facing it because Su-27/30 can be many things but not a scramble-able interceptor. (by the way not in their internal airforce which gets their best fighters, it has Mig-31s as long range interceptors and Su-s of different varieties for backup)

You mentioned a typo in my one of my previous post which made me remember things, I'll mention it but I do not think that guys like you who had not set a foot in a cockpit but keep vomiting pearls of wisdom here will understand it. Now guys like you may think that having two D$$$ ahem engines will be better than one in a vwr fighter. I remembered an irony, Mig-19( we had F-6/J-6 its clones) and 29 not only share just the last number, it also had two engines. And it was as lousy at speeding up, few who had experienced it could forget the agony of seeing their opponent just running straight away. As a VWR fighter the best option you had was to always try to sneak upon a bogie. At higher alpha it shuddered and gyrated like hell but still was very manoeuvrable and quite reliable once you learn its habits, its stick was still responsive to a degree in such scenario. When Soviets decided to upgrade from famed and successful Mig-21 to 29 their short-range interceptor force, interestingly their designers again chose a twin engined, larger, bulkier design. But the idiots other than a voice alert also implemented a stick jerking mechanism at higher AOA. From the horse's mouth.. bloody last throes before end in a mastur....

HOBS is a nice to have option which is becoming must now that every other fighter is fielding it. And you can keep salivating about HOBS and a circled up wire as a sight to be game changer in a dogfight but the fact is that it takes much more to be a better vwr fighter than this. If Mi-29 was such a great interceptor and dog fighter (and in your imaginations also an air-supirioty fighter competing F-15) than why did IAF kept sticking to its Mig-21s even to this day. If they had asked, Russians would have been more than happy to manufacture hundreds of this $hit for them.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> Yah you could go for SM, get off the shelf from what they are making for Russian Airforce....just make sure everything labelled in English/Bengali
> 
> Thats not a bad idea at all, probably might be what happen. It would be easy for BD to overhaul them in Russia too when needed given Russia would already be doing the same for their own....and nothing would really have to be changed.
> 
> Russian avionics and electronics are not really "at par" overall. Some areas they are very close...others still some way behind (esp in terms of efficiency). When efficiency doesn't really matter (and you have a massive Fencer or something who's only purpose is to broadband jam), you can make some pretty potent jamming/EW platforms since you just scale up the size with the





ghazi768 said:


> come on! now do not be an idiot.. Mig 29, an air superiority fighter and comparable to F-15.. you keep ticking up this fighter in each post. What will you make it competitor to in your next post.. F-22 because Mig-29 is still the short range interceptors for Russian airforce and the one to end up facing it because Su-27/30 can be many things but not a scramble-able interceptor. (by the way not in their internal airforce which gets their best fighters, it has Mig-31s as long range interceptors and Su-s of different varieties for backup)
> 
> You mentioned a typo in my one of my previous post which made me remember things, I'll mention it but I do not think that guys like you who had not set a foot in a cockpit but keep vomiting pearls of wisdom here will understand it. Now guys like you may think that having two D$$$ ahem engines will be better than one in a vwr fighter. I remembered an irony, Mig-19( we had F-6/J-6 its clones) and 29 not only share just the last number, it also had two engines. And it was as lousy at speeding up, few who had experienced it could forget the agony of seeing their opponent just running straight away. As a VWR fighter the best option you had was to always try to sneak upon a bogie. At higher alpha it shuddered and gyrated like hell but still was very manoeuvrable and quite reliable once you learn its habits, its stick was still responsive to a degree in such scenario. When Soviets decided to upgrade from famed and successful Mig-21 to 29 their short-range interceptor force, interestingly their designers again chose a twin engined, larger, bulkier design. But the idiots other than a voice alert also implemented a stick jerking mechanism at higher AOA. From the horse's mouth.. bloody last throes before end in a mastur....
> 
> HOBS is a nice to have option which is becoming must now that every other fighter is fielding it. And you can keep salivating about HOBS and a circled up wire as a sight to be game changer in a dogfight but the fact is that it takes much more to be a better vwr fighter than this. If Mi-29 was such a great interceptor and dog fighter (and in your imaginations also an air-supirioty fighter competing F-15) than why did IAF kept sticking to its Mig-21s even to this day. If they had asked, Russians would have been more than happy to manufacture hundreds of this $hit for them.


i didnt tick it up to be as equal to as f-15 and it's unsurprising people go by assumptions but no i have been in cockpits of many planes in my life.... have even flow two.... //// i am not even going to read the rest of your post....
@Nilgiri i am sure you know a thing or two about aviation... why dont you say what you think

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## asad71

This is good a summation of the potential Russian sale. Unfortunately the report is in Bangla and speaks of diarrhea the report has caused in the neighborhood.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Homo Sapiens

asad71 said:


> This is good a summation of the potential Russian sale. Unfortunately the report is in Bangla and speaks of diarrhea the report has caused in the neighborhood.


8 plane is nothing,we need at least 4 squadron of these type of plane plus S-400 missile.Place one battalion of S-400 in Dhaka and keep 10 squadron of fighter plane including 4 squadron of these type.Then we will be able to resist the enemy effectively.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tehari_Haleem

BRITISH said:


> we should sell jf 17 to BAF and make BAf strong then they can hold india

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## randomradio

Nilgiri said:


> Call it MKB....and you would probably ask for 0 Israeli avionics and systems





Mohammed Khaled said:


> mki is for india... why would bangladesh buy something tailor made for them... lol



There are two versions available without Israeli equipment. Algeria's MKA and Malaysia's MKM.

Plus, all of the Israeli equipment, even French if necessary, can now be replaced with Indian. BD can choose Russian equipment as well, like the SM.



Species said:


> That's what I said, we can go for variants 'other than' the MKI. And MKIs are only manufactured in India so there is a quality issue as well.



The quality of Indian made MKI is better. But it's not a problem, Bangladesh will get theirs from Russia anyway. India doesn't produce MKI for export. But in the future, BD can buy FGFAs to replace their Su-30s, made in Indian lines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BRITISH

not bad idea gift them


----------



## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> i didnt tick it up to be as equal to as f-15 and it's unsurprising people go by assumptions but no i have been in cockpits of many planes in my life.... have even flow two.... //// i am not even going to read the rest of your post....
> @Nilgiri i am sure you know a thing or two about aviation... why dont you say what you think



The conversation bores me and is typical of all defence forums.

No point. People will essentially believe what they want to believe. Most would have exactly reversed conversations if India had F-16s and Pakistan had Mig - 29s. Therein lies the fundamental problem.

Better use of time is to listen to some good ole ragtime:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zabaniyah

Khan saheb said:


> It's called Mig 29m2. The difference between the two is an AESA radar. The variant carrying AESA is called Mig35.



Well, if that was the case then everybody would be playing with AESA radars by now.

There lies a difference between coming up with a new technology, and finally fielding it on a mass scale. Not even the Eurofighters have been able to implement it. The Russians certainly haven't been able to yet. Not any time soon. Their priority would be their PAK-FA stealth fighters, and no one else (not even the Indian's MKI). Back in 2012, only one of the three PAK-FA prototypes were equipped with the AESA radar.

It's not like 'oh look, there's an AESA radar. Let's load them all up!'. It's not that simple.

There is no question that the Russians have come up with a sound AESA radar small enough to be mounted on an aircraft, infrared sensors and state of the art electronic warfare systems. However, there would lie a question on how well would all those subsystems be integrated and effectively function as one weapon.

That being said, the only country that had been fielding different types of AESA radars on aircraft over the years is the U.S. The recent one being the French with their Rafale - The only European country to do so (albeit on a small scale).

It took the Americans decades of hard work and billions of dollars into all those integrated and complex avionics suites into the various aircraft like the F-15 and the F-18. Particularly into what the Raptor is today.

There's little doubt that the Russians will field state of the art aircraft equipped with AESA radars - Namely the PAK FA. But, it is a question of when. It is also a question of money.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> egypt wont be getting because... israel!
> israel and russia have some form of understanding when weapons are sold to the arabs.... arabs always buy these to f up the region



Israeli pressure? You are going to need a source for that.

And for those saying that Bangladesh must get some different variant from the MKI, uh....you guys do realize that the SM is essentially a Russian version of the MKI for the Russian Air Force's requirements right? Said to be India's 'gift' to the Russian Air Force

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TopCat

Loki said:


> Well, if that was the case then everybody would be playing with AESA radars by now.
> 
> There lies a difference between coming up with a new technology, and finally fielding it on a mass scale. Not even the Eurofighters have been able to implement it. The Russians certainly haven't been able to yet. Not any time soon. Their priority would be their PAK-FA stealth fighters, and no one else (not even the Indian's MKI). Back in 2012, only one of the three PAK-FA prototypes were equipped with the AESA radar.
> 
> It's not like 'oh look, there's an AESA radar. Let's load them all up!'. It's not that simple.
> 
> There is no question that the Russians have come up with a sound AESA radar small enough to be mounted on an aircraft, infrared sensors and state of the art electronic warfare systems. However, there would lie a question on how well would all those subsystems be integrated and effectively function as one weapon.
> 
> That being said, the only country that had been fielding different types of AESA radars on aircraft over the years is the U.S. The recent one being the French with their Rafale - The only European country to do so (albeit on a small scale).
> 
> It took the Americans decades of hard work and billions of dollars into all those integrated and complex avionics suites into the various aircraft like the F-15 and the F-18. Particularly into what the Raptor is today.
> 
> There's little doubt that the Russians will field state of the art aircraft equipped with AESA radars - Namely the PAK FA. But, it is a question of when. It is also a question of money.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli pressure? You are going to need a source for that.
> 
> And for those saying that Bangladesh must get some different variant from the MKI, uh....you guys do realize that the SM is essentially a Russian version of the MKI for the Russian Air Force's requirements right? Said to be India's 'gift' to the Russian Air Force


There is not much difference in aesa and pesa radars in technology except how they generate the power for signals.


----------



## Zabaniyah

TopCat said:


> There is not much difference in aesa and pesa radars in technology except how they generate the power for signals.



It'll give the aircraft an edge for sure depending on how well it is integrated. 

But will an aircraft sporting AESA be better than the one sporting PESA? Not necessarily. I see little reason to be concerned about it.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Loki said:


> Well, if that was the case then everybody would be playing with AESA radars by now.
> 
> There lies a difference between coming up with a new technology, and finally fielding it on a mass scale. Not even the Eurofighters have been able to implement it. The Russians certainly haven't been able to yet. Not any time soon. Their priority would be their PAK-FA stealth fighters, and no one else (not even the Indian's MKI). Back in 2012, only one of the three PAK-FA prototypes were equipped with the AESA radar.
> 
> It's not like 'oh look, there's an AESA radar. Let's load them all up!'. It's not that simple.
> 
> There is no question that the Russians have come up with a sound AESA radar small enough to be mounted on an aircraft, infrared sensors and state of the art electronic warfare systems. However, there would lie a question on how well would all those subsystems be integrated and effectively function as one weapon.
> 
> That being said, the only country that had been fielding different types of AESA radars on aircraft over the years is the U.S. The recent one being the French with their Rafale - The only European country to do so (albeit on a small scale).
> 
> It took the Americans decades of hard work and billions of dollars into all those integrated and complex avionics suites into the various aircraft like the F-15 and the F-18. Particularly into what the Raptor is today.
> 
> There's little doubt that the Russians will field state of the art aircraft equipped with AESA radars - Namely the PAK FA. But, it is a question of when. It is also a question of money.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli pressure? You are going to need a source for that.
> 
> And for those saying that Bangladesh must get some different variant from the MKI, uh....you guys do realize that the SM is essentially a Russian version of the MKI for the Russian Air Force's requirements right? Said to be India's 'gift' to the Russian Air Force


Yes I do... it's basically the same sans Indian choice of avionics... which are sourced from Israel and France.


----------



## Arthur

Loki said:


> Well, if that was the case then everybody would be playing with AESA radars by now.
> 
> There lies a difference between coming up with a new technology, and finally fielding it on a mass scale. Not even the Eurofighters have been able to implement it. The Russians certainly haven't been able to yet. Not any time soon. Their priority would be their PAK-FA stealth fighters, and no one else (not even the Indian's MKI). Back in 2012, only one of the three PAK-FA prototypes were equipped with the AESA radar.
> 
> It's not like 'oh look, there's an AESA radar. Let's load them all up!'. It's not that simple.
> 
> There is no question that the Russians have come up with a sound AESA radar small enough to be mounted on an aircraft, infrared sensors and state of the art electronic warfare systems. However, there would lie a question on how well would all those subsystems be integrated and effectively function as one weapon.
> 
> That being said, the only country that had been fielding different types of AESA radars on aircraft over the years is the U.S. The recent one being the French with their Rafale - The only European country to do so (albeit on a small scale).
> 
> It took the Americans decades of hard work and billions of dollars into all those integrated and complex avionics suites into the various aircraft like the F-15 and the F-18. Particularly into what the Raptor is today.
> 
> There's little doubt that the Russians will field state of the art aircraft equipped with AESA radars - Namely the PAK FA. But, it is a question of when. It is also a question of money.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli pressure? You are going to need a source for that.
> 
> And for those saying that Bangladesh must get some different variant from the MKI, uh....you guys do realize that the SM is essentially a Russian version of the MKI for the Russian Air Force's requirements right? Said to be India's 'gift' to the Russian Air Force


Well, I didn't said it's an everday job for an everyday joe. I merely pointed out how Russia designated the advanced Mig variants.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------

