# An Article about the Hazaras



## Yazp

Here's a small article I've written about my people, The Hazaras:
I will add more parts to this as I get time to write them in follow up posts on this same thread 
Enjoy!



Origins:


The word Hazara comes from the Persian word _“Hazar” _which means a thousand. This is a reference to one of Ghengeis Khan's military units, the _“Mingghan” _a regiment made up of 100 _“Arbans” _(One Arban is a hundred men)_. _



Most Hazaras came to Afghanistan with Ghengeis Khan during his Khwarezmian campaign. ( It was not originally the intention of the Mongol Empire to invade the Khwarezmid Empire. According to the Persian historian Juzjani, Genghis Khan had originally sent the ruler of the Khwarezmid Empire, Ala ad-Din Muhammad, a message seeking trade and greeted him as his neighbor: "I am master of the lands of the rising sun while you rule those of the setting sun. Let us conclude a firm treaty of friendship and peace”. Which the “Sultan” broke after he beheaded an innocent Mongol caravan.)


After taking a city from the enemy, a Garrison was stationed in the city, Thus the Mongols settled there and somewhat merged with the local population, slowly abandoning Mongolian and shifting to Dari.


The second wave of Hazaras coming to Afghanistan was during the 1251 when Halagu Khan was sent to:


Suppress the Ismaili _Ḥashshāshīn_rebellion

and to Suppress the Abbasid Caliphate which now had rebelled, when they had agreed to be a Mongol Vassal when Ghengeis Khan had come.

Thus, he assembled the biggest Mongol Army to date and marched onto the Middle east with orders to either have the Abbasid Caliphate to submit, or to be utterly destroyed.


Conquest of Baghdad:
*
First of all, Watch this video and see the Mongolian Cavalry and their superior tactics in all of their glory.*








and this:






After defeating the Assassins, Hulagu sent word to Al-Musta'sim, demanding his acquiescence to the terms imposed by Möngke. Al-Musta'sim refused, in large part due to the influence of his advisor and grand vizier, Ibn al-Alkami. Historians have ascribed various motives to al-Alkami's opposition to submission, including treachery and incompetence, and it appears that he lied to the Caliph about the severity of the invasion, assuring Al-Musta'sim that, if the capital of the caliphate was endangered by a Mongol army, the Islamic world would rush to its aid.


Though replying to Hulagu's demands in a manner that the Mongol commander found threatening and offensive enough to break off further negotiation, Al-Musta'sim declined to gather armies to assist the forces available to him in Baghdad, nor did he strengthen the city's walls. By January 11, the Mongols had reached the vicinity of the city, establishing themselves on both banks of Tigris so as to form a pincer round the city, and Al-Musta'sim finally decided to confront them, sending out a force of 20,000 cavalry to attack the Mongols. The cavalry were decisively defeated by the Mongols, whose engineers broke dikes along the Tigris River and flooded the ground behind the Abbasid forces, trapping them.






Mongols feared that a supernatural disaster would strike if the blood of Al-Musta'sim, a direct descendant of Muhammad (S.A.W)'s uncle Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib (R.A), and the last reigning Abbasid caliph in Baghdad, was spilled. The Shias of Persia stated that no such calamity had happened after the deaths of Husayn Ibn Ali (A.S) nevertheless, as a precaution and in accordance with a Mongol taboo which forbade spilling royal blood, Hulagu had Al-Musta'sim wrapped in a carpet and trampled to death by horses on 20 February 1258. (A Mongolian execution only given to high ranking people in which no blood is spilled)


The Ilkhanate:


The word “Ilkhanate” means Subordinate khanate, under the Mongol Great Khan. Halagu Khan was permitted to establish his own Khanate in the region. Meanwhile the Mongols were fighting in China. The incompetent Khan, Kublai Khan kept failing, thus the Great Khan himself came to lead, leaving his son Arik Boke to manage his empire until the Campaign was over. However his father did not return from China as he died from Malaria or some other similar disease. Kublai Khan and his Chinese Generals marched onto the Mongol capital, Karakoram and destroyed it along with Arik Boke.

After the Great Khan died, and his heir murdered, nor the Golden horde or the Ilkhanate wanted to stay a part of the federation.


The Ilkhante consisted of modern day Iran, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Armenia, Georgia, Turkey, Turkmenistan and Armenia.






Initially the Mongols allied with the Franks in the 7th Crusade against a common foe, the Mamluks.

The Mamluks were honorable and respectable warriors and a formidable foe.

( You wont hear that from a Mongol everyday.)


Ghazan the Great converted to Islam on the 16th of June, 1295. All of his subject and most Mongols converted to Islam as well.




Ghazan studying the Quran.

The Ilkhanate ceased to exist in 1335, After successful Uzbek rebels and the Uzbek turned Mughal “Timur the Lame” took over what was left of the Ilkhanate and established the Timurd empire (Which in turn was destroyed by Shia rebels the same way the Uzbeks rebelled against the Ilkhanate) One of the descendants of Timurd, Babur established the Mughal Emprie in the subcontinent.

Don't confuse Hazaras with the Mughals.



Just note that it has some parts which is a copy and paste from wikipedia

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## Yazp

@DESERT FIGHTER
@Eagleye
@Dr. Stranglove
@pak-marine
@WAJsal
@Atanz
@Nilesh Singh
I don't know if you guys might be interested, But I'll tag you anyway!
Have any questions? Ask away!

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## WAJsal

Yazp said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> @Eagleye
> @Dr. Stranglove
> @pak-marine
> @WAJsal
> @Atanz
> @Nilesh Singh
> I don't know if you guys might be interested, But I'll tag you anyway!
> Have any questions? Ask away!


Quite informative. Thank you. Can't beat my thread, though. No competition. 
How Gilgit-Baltistan got liberated .


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## Yazp

WAJsal said:


> Quite informative. Thank you. Can't beat my thread, though. No competition.
> How Gilgit-Baltistan got liberated .


Yep, Your thread is better! I don't even know if mine is in the correct category either.


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## WAJsal

Yazp said:


> Yep, Your thread is better! I don't even know if mine is in the correct category either.


It's correct and quite informative. Keep up the good work. More history and background. Recent history, would have rated it too. hard work deserves appreciation. New at this i suppose, keep up the good work.

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## Dr. Strangelove

great thread @Yazp

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## Indus Pakistan

Yazp said:


> Yep, Your thread is better! I don't even know if mine is in the correct category either.



Great thread and it is in the correct category. Appreciate your effort. Maybe you could list the contribution made to Pakistan by the Hazara's community like soldiers, sports people etc. I love football and the place my brother works ( UK ) has a young Hazara lad who apparently is like the next Maradona.

Maybe you could kick off with General Musa Khan?

@xenon54 Is there any Turkish connection here?

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## Yazp

Atanz said:


> Great thread and it is in the correct category. Appreciate your effort. Maybe you could list the contribution made to Pakistan by the Hazara's community like soldiers, sports people etc. I love football and the place my brother works ( UK ) has a young Hazara lad who apparently is like the next Maradona.
> 
> Maybe you could kick off with General Musa Khan?
> 
> @xenon54 Is there any Turkish connection here?



Hehe, I'll add the part about him later on when I write the Pakistani Hazaras chapter.

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## WAJsal

Yazp said:


> Hehe, I'll add the part about my Great Grandfather later on when I write the Pakistani Hazaras chapter.


General Musa Khan is your great grandfather? will be eagerly waiting.

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## Indus Pakistan

Yazp said:


> Hehe, I'll add the part about my Great Grandfather later on when I write the* Pakistani Hazaras* chapter.



This sounds very interesting. I certainly look forward to it. I notice the Ilkhanate covered almost all of present day Balochistan, Pakistan. Catch you later.

@WAJsal I think we might have "living history" here. This is what we need at PDF !!!

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## WAJsal

Atanz said:


> @WAJsal I think we might have "living history" here. This is what we need at PDF !!!


I was thinking the same thing. 

Again will be eagerly waiting. Really good for PDF, please continue with this plan @Yazp .

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## Yazp

WAJsal said:


> I was thinking the same thing.
> 
> Again will be eagerly waiting. Really good for PDF, please continue with this plan @Yazp .


Alright then.

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## Kabira

Nice thread and quite informative.

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## Kabira

I know this guy, Pakistani hazara fashion desginer. Originally from Quetta, now live in Islamabad or Lahore.

Mohsin Ali

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## Yazp

*When persecution started:*


In 1830, Abdur Rahman came to power, and wanted to tax the Hazaras.

The Hazaras, who had never been forced to pay taxes to anyone revolted against him, three times.
In the Third revolt (1893) The initial Hazara push took the government by surprise, thus we took back the whole of Hazaristan.
After many months of fighting, we had to surrender because of the shortage of food.


It was during this time that the Hazaras and Pashtuns became rivals for many years to come.
After this revolt, more than 60% of Hazaras were either massacred or displaced out of Afghanistan. Hazara lands, and properties were confiscated and the population was expelled. Most of them going to Mashad, Iran and Quetta, British India.


In 1901 Habibullah, Abdur Rahman's successor granted amnesty to all the people who were forcefully removed, but the rift between Hazaras and Pashtuns was already made to deep in Abdur Rahman's time.



During the forced exile of the Hazaras, the British started to recruit from the Hazaras, making the 106th Hazara Pioneers a part of the British Indian Army.




A member of the 106th Pioneers depicted alongside other British Indian Pioneers. Third from the right side.

In 1940, Zahir Shah imposed special taxes on Hazaras only. Once again, the Hazaras revolted and started to kill government officials and soldiers. Later on the tax was forced to be removed.

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## Kabira

^^
Quetta is pashtun majority city though, strange place to escape from one set of pashtuns to another.


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## Yazp

save_ghenda said:


> ^^
> Quetta is pashtun majority city though, strange place to escape from one set of pashtuns to another.


We wanted to get away from Abdur Rahman, Not from Pashtuns. We're okay with them aslong as they aren't extremists.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Yazp said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> @Eagleye
> @Dr. Stranglove
> @pak-marine
> @WAJsal
> @Atanz
> @Nilesh Singh
> I don't know if you guys might be interested, But I'll tag you anyway!
> Have any questions? Ask away!


I'm frm quetta and have plenty of Hazara frnds ..

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## Kambojaric

Informative thread @Yazp . I am curious to know whether any Mongolian words have survived in the Dari spoken by the Hazara people?

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## Yazp

Samandri said:


> @Yazp When did Hazaras converted to Shia sect of Islam and by whom?........we know that Iranians (who were hanafi muslims before safavids) were forcibly converted to Shia sect by Shah Ismael Safvi, what about hazaras?......... The more traditional and known desendents of Mongols i.e Mughals, Uzbeks, Tatars etc, are/were Sunni musalman from hanafi school of thought



Originally Halagu Khan was brought up as a Christian. Later on before he died he converted to Bhuddism.
The Hazaras, as I mentioned before converted to Shia Islam alongside Ghazan the Great in 1295. Way before the Safavids.
And for the second part of your question;
Mughals are not Mongols, Nor are Uzbeks or Tataris. All are Turkic, however there is no doubt that they were a part of Ghengeis Khans army (After Ghengeis had to fight them and kill their rebellious leaders, The Tatars were the First enemy of Ghengeis Khan. We fought them to unify Mongolia under one leader, which they did not want.) Mughals are descendants of the Uzbeks who adopted Persian culture.
The Uzbeks and Tatars are more or less similar to one another. The Tatars have 30 tribes, Uzbeks have 92 tribes, The Hazaras have 5 Original tribes.
I do not know who on earth told you Uzbeks, Mughals and Tataris were Mongol...
The way these Turans and Turks balantly take credit for our history is just plain evil.



Bamxa said:


> Informative thread @Yazp . I am curious to know whether any Mongolian words have survived in the Dari spoken by the Hazara people?


Yes, there are many words which are Mongolian which has survived in Hazargi, our dialect of Dari!

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## Kabira

Samandri said:


> Ghazan indeed converted to Shia-ism, but what has those Mongol rulers of Iran any thing to do with Hazaras of central Afghanistan?...........any source to confirm the claim that those Mongol rulers of Iran migrated to central Afghanistan?
> 
> Arghuns, Uzbeks, Mughals and Tatars have actually known history and more relavence to Mongols as compared to Hazaras. Its even possible that Hazaras might be the remnants of those Persians of central Afghanistan, killed and raped by Mongols of Genghis Khan. The unfortunate people of Bamiyan and other regions of central afghanistan were not spared , but Mongols were known to take their women as concubines or wives, after killing their husbands..........Hazaras must be descendents of those unfortunate persian women forcibly taken. There is a reason why their social status is relatively lower than turko-mongol communities like uzbeks and other neighbouring groups like Tajiks.
> 
> Demographics of Central Asia got totally changed after Mongol invasion, the old Turanis were more akin to Persians by race.... while nowdays Turks of central asia are calling themselves Turks due to langauge but are mostly Mongol in genetics.
> 
> Uzbek Khan or Oz Beg Khan was the Khan of golden horde of Mongols. Tatar is generic term for Mongols, particularly of Golden horde, who settled in Crimea and Volga regions. Mughals or Barlas was a Mongol tribe. All of these got Turkified. While Hazaras, unlike Chaughtais, have Persian blood in them i.e they are Persio-Mongols instead of Turko-Mongols who dominate central asia.



Hazaras have both Mongol male and female linages (unlike other central asians with mongloid ancestry), so they are not product of rape but direct descendants.

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## Yazp

Samandri said:


> rulers of Iran any thing to do with Hazaras of central Afghanistan?...........any source to confirm the claim that those Mongol rulers of Iran migrated to central Afghanistan?
> 
> Arghuns, Uzbeks, Mughals and Tatars have actually known history and more relavence to Mongols as compared to Hazaras. Its even possible that Hazaras might be the remnants of those Persians of central Afghanistan, killed and raped by Mongols of Genghis Khan. The unfortunate people of Bamiyan and other regions of central afghanistan were not spared , but Mongols were known to take their women as concubines or wives, after killing their husbands..........Hazaras must be descendents of those unfortunate persian women forcibly taken. There is a reason why their social status is relatively lower than turko-mongol communities like uzbeks and other neighbouring groups like Tajiks.
> 
> Demographics of Central Asia got totally changed after Mongol invasion, the old Turanis were more akin to Persians by race.... while nowdays Turks of central asia are calling themselves Turks due to langauge but are mostly Mongol in genetics.
> 
> Uzbek Khan or Oz Beg Khan was the Khan of golden horde of Mongols. Tatar is generic term for Mongols, particularly of Golden horde, who settled in Crimea and Volga regions. Mughals or Barlas was a Mongol tribe. All of these got Turkified. While Hazaras, unlike Chaughtais, have Persian blood in them i.e they are Persio-Mongols instead of Turko-Mongols who dominate central asia.


We are remnants of his MILITARY GARRISONS in Afghanistan. When news broke out that the Khan had converted, we converted aswell. All Mongolid people in Afghanistan, we call ourselves Hazaras. The Tajiks are Iranic, Uzbeks are Turkic, Pashtuns are Hellenic/Slavic? ? or Jewish.

Now you're coming down to relevance. Uzbeks, Tatars or Mughals are NOT Mongols. Uzbeks and Tartans are TURKIC. Just like the Kazakhs, Nogais, Anatolians, Crimeans, ect. And like most Turks, like to align themselves with Mongols. Heck there are those Turan Turkleri guys who even count the Finns as Turks.

Perso-Mongols???
I am not aware of any Hazaras who have married any Persians. Perhaps the ones in Iran may have, but in our culture we prefer to marry within ourselves, mostly marriages take place between different Tribes of Hazaras.
I'll show you some documents and DNA tests to make you understand that the two people with the most common blood in Asia are Hazaras and the Mongols in Mongolia.



Samandri said:


> There is a reason why their social status is relatively lower than turko-mongol communities like uzbeks and other neighbouring groups like Tajiks.


Who said that?
Lower than Tajiks and Uzbeks???
Have you ever even seen the border of Afghanistan? Let alone go inside it?

I do not know where you're bringing all these "facts" from, but wherever you're getting them from, keep going. They're amusing.

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## Yazp

*DNA Research on the Hazaras:*

Ghengeis Khan created the greatest land empire that has ever existed, stretching from the Pacific to Europe. In the process, a large number of his enemies, particularly the men, were killed. He himself is reported to have 4 wives and many concubines, and after his death his brothers and several of his sons and, subsequently, grandsons received apanages and ruled large sections of his empire, but his later descendants are less reliably documented/ The Major part of the Y chromosome shows male specefic inheritance and thus male lineages can be traced using Y chromosomal DNA variants. Furthermore the accumulation of variation at rapidly mutating loci can be used to identify the time and place of origin of a linage. We have identified a Y lineage which probably arose in Mongolia about 900 years ago and has spread with unprecedented speed over a vast geographical area to form about 9% of the comtempoary Y lineages in a large part of Central and Eastern Asia. We use genealogical evidence from the Hazaras to link this lineage to Ghengeis Khan.


In surveys of DNA variation in Central Asia, Pakistan and China, we typed 1985 Y chromosomes with 16-20 binary markers (mostly SNPs) and 10-16 microsatellites. The details of these studies will be reported elsewhere. As expected from worldwide and European analyses, Y variation showed strong geographical structure and, in Central Asia, some examples of population founder effects/bottlenecks like those seen in earlier work. However, we saw a novel genetic pattern that differed from known patterns in two respects:

1: While most haplotypes defined by so many markers are found in a single individual, even in large scale surveys, one haplotype identical at 17/17 binary loci and 15/15 microsatellites were found at high frequency. This haplotype included the derived T allele of RPS4Y and the alles 16,10, 16, 25, 10, 11, 13, 14, 12 ,11, 11, 11, 12, 8, 10, 10 for the loci DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389b, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS388, DYS425, DYS426, DYS434, DYS435, DYS436, DYS437, DYS438 and DYS439.

It made up about 5% of the chromosomes in Central and Eastern Asia and together with closely related haplotypes linked by single mutational steps, about 9% of these populations.These lineages are collectively called the 'star haplotype'. Star haplotype chromosomes were found in 15 populations spread throughout a large geographical area spanning almost one-quater of the world, and thus do not result from an event specefic to any one population.




Molecular analyses provide insights into the most likely time and place of origin of this lineage. We used the BATWING program, incorporating the known mutation rates of Y microsatellites, to estimate the time that the variation of 16 microsatellites in 62 chromosomes from the star haplotype confidence limits around ~300 to ~3000 years, taking into accound the uncertainties with the mutation rates and population structure, and assuming that a generation time of 30 years. Within this lineage, variation is greates in Mongolia, where seven different haplotypes are found (ten if Mongolians living in China are included) thus Mongolia is the most likely place of origin.


The molecular data alone provides no direct information about the identity of the founder of the lineage. It is possible that the bearers of this chromosome had a selective advantage or were just lucky, but the history of the region suggests and alternative explanation: the chromosomes could have descended from Ghengeis Khan. This hypothesis could be tested by examining DNA from te remains of Ghengis Khan or his male-line relatives, or living descendants. Many Hazaras consider themselves to be male-line descendants of Genghis Khan, and a geneaoly documenting these links has been constructed from their history by Shaikh Nasir Ali Ansari.

The Y chromosomes of the Hazaras are indeed distinct from all other surrounding populations and most belong to just two groups of lineages, one of which is the star haplotype.


We therefore conclude that the Y chromosome of a single individual, probably Genghis Khan (Or strictly his father, since some chromosomes may derive from his brothers) has spread rapidly during historical times.

As well as providing a link between genetics and history, this conclusion demonstrates a novel aspect of human population structure and reveals how large-scale changes to patterns of genetic variation can occasionally occur very quickly. The observation that the current patters of genetic variation can occasionally occur very quickly.
Here is the Map.
You can see that the Uzbeks have very little in common with Mongols, and the Hazaras are the most similar to the Mongols, Other than the Chinese Mongols.
@Samandri @Psychic 







Thanks to:
Department of Biochemistry, University of Oxford,

Department of Medical biology, Harbin Medical University,

Wellcome Trust center for Human Genetics,

Institute of genetics, Chinese Academy of Sciences,

Biomedical and Genetic Engineering Labs, Islamabad,

Institute of Immunology, Academy of Sciences,

McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, University of Cambridge,

Institute of Biotechnology, Mongolian Academy of Sciences,

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## Pakistani E

Good read. Well done @Yazp 

Keep them coming.

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## maxpayne

Yazp said:


> Here's a small article I've written about my people, The Hazaras:
> I will add more parts to this as I get time to write them in follow up posts on this same thread
> Enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> Origins:
> 
> 
> The word Hazara comes from the Persian word _“Hazar” _which means a thousand. This is a reference to one of Ghengeis Khan's military units, the _“Mingghan” _a regiment made up of 100 _“Arbans” _(One Arban is a hundred men)_. _
> 
> 
> 
> Most Hazaras came to Afghanistan with Ghengeis Khan during his Khwarezmian campaign. ( It was not originally the intention of the Mongol Empire to invade the Khwarezmid Empire. According to the Persian historian Juzjani, Genghis Khan had originally sent the ruler of the Khwarezmid Empire, Ala ad-Din Muhammad, a message seeking trade and greeted him as his neighbor: "I am master of the lands of the rising sun while you rule those of the setting sun. Let us conclude a firm treaty of friendship and peace”. Which the “Sultan” broke after he beheaded an innocent Mongol caravan.)
> 
> 
> After taking a city from the enemy, a Garrison was stationed in the city, Thus the Mongols settled there and somewhat merged with the local population, slowly abandoning Mongolian and shifting to Dari.
> 
> 
> The second wave of Hazaras coming to Afghanistan was during the 1251 when Halagu Khan was sent to:
> 
> 
> Suppress the Ismaili _Ḥashshāshīn_rebellion
> 
> and to Suppress the Abbasid Caliphate which now had rebelled, when they had agreed to be a Mongol Vassal when Ghengeis Khan had come.
> 
> Thus, he assembled the biggest Mongol Army to date and marched onto the Middle east with orders to either have the Abbasid Caliphate to submit, or to be utterly destroyed.
> 
> 
> Conquest of Baghdad:
> *
> First of all, Watch this video and see the Mongolian Cavalry and their superior tactics in all of their glory.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this:
> View attachment 235947
> 
> 
> After defeating the Assassins, Hulagu sent word to Al-Musta'sim, demanding his acquiescence to the terms imposed by Möngke. Al-Musta'sim refused, in large part due to the influence of his advisor and grand vizier, Ibn al-Alkami. Historians have ascribed various motives to al-Alkami's opposition to submission, including treachery and incompetence, and it appears that he lied to the Caliph about the severity of the invasion, assuring Al-Musta'sim that, if the capital of the caliphate was endangered by a Mongol army, the Islamic world would rush to its aid.
> 
> 
> Though replying to Hulagu's demands in a manner that the Mongol commander found threatening and offensive enough to break off further negotiation, Al-Musta'sim declined to gather armies to assist the forces available to him in Baghdad, nor did he strengthen the city's walls. By January 11, the Mongols had reached the vicinity of the city, establishing themselves on both banks of Tigris so as to form a pincer round the city, and Al-Musta'sim finally decided to confront them, sending out a force of 20,000 cavalry to attack the Mongols. The cavalry were decisively defeated by the Mongols, whose engineers broke dikes along the Tigris River and flooded the ground behind the Abbasid forces, trapping them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mongols feared that a supernatural disaster would strike if the blood of Al-Musta'sim, a direct descendant of Muhammad (S.A.W)'s uncle Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib (R.A), and the last reigning Abbasid caliph in Baghdad, was spilled. The Shias of Persia stated that no such calamity had happened after the deaths of Husayn Ibn Ali (A.S) nevertheless, as a precaution and in accordance with a Mongol taboo which forbade spilling royal blood, Hulagu had Al-Musta'sim wrapped in a carpet and trampled to death by horses on 20 February 1258. (A Mongolian execution only given to high ranking people in which no blood is spilled)
> 
> 
> The Ilkhanate:
> 
> 
> The word “Ilkhanate” means Subordinate khanate, under the Mongol Great Khan. Halagu Khan was permitted to establish his own Khanate in the region. Meanwhile the Mongols were fighting in China. The incompetent Khan, Kublai Khan kept failing, thus the Great Khan himself came to lead, leaving his son Arik Boke to manage his empire until the Campaign was over. However his father did not return from China as he died from Malaria or some other similar disease. Kublai Khan and his Chinese Generals marched onto the Mongol capital, Karakoram and destroyed it along with Arik Boke.
> 
> After the Great Khan died, and his heir murdered, nor the Golden horde or the Ilkhanate wanted to stay a part of the federation.
> 
> 
> The Ilkhante consisted of modern day Iran, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Armenia, Georgia, Turkey, Turkmenistan and Armenia.
> View attachment 235956
> 
> 
> 
> Initially the Mongols allied with the Franks in the 7th Crusade against a common foe, the Mamluks.
> 
> The Mamluks were honorable and respectable warriors and a formidable foe.
> 
> ( You wont hear that from a Mongol everyday.)
> 
> 
> Ghazan the Great converted to Islam on the 16th of June, 1295. All of his subject and most Mongols converted to Islam as well.
> View attachment 235955
> 
> Ghazan studying the Quran.
> 
> The Ilkhanate ceased to exist in 1335, After successful Uzbek rebels and the Uzbek turned Mughal “Timur the Lame” took over what was left of the Ilkhanate and established the Timurd empire (Which in turn was destroyed by Shia rebels the same way the Uzbeks rebelled against the Ilkhanate) One of the descendants of Timurd, Babur established the Mughal Emprie in the subcontinent.
> 
> Don't confuse Hazaras with the Mughals.
> 
> 
> 
> Just note that it has some parts which is a copy and paste from wikipedia


What do u think of Hazaras living in Hazara division i.e Haripur and adjoining areas?


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## Yazp

maxpayne said:


> What do u think of Hazaras living in Hazara division i.e Haripur and adjoining areas?


They're Sunni Hazaras, they went to Hazara division and we went to Quetta.
Most of them are now mixed with Phatans today.
They are still my tribesmen, regardless of their Religion, However most of them don't identify themselves as Hazaras since they fear getting killed for it.



Pakistani Exile said:


> Good read. Well done @Yazp
> 
> Keep them coming.


Thanks mate

Here are a few pictures of relatively young Hazaras in different Armed forces:

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## Yazp

Unfortunately there are also a considerable amount of Hazara Mercenaries working in a certain war-torn Arab state, alongside a certain dictator, on behalf of a certain middle-eastern state.




We're probably the most resilient nation, if not one of the most. But we've fought for everyone, and tried to solve everyone else's problems, _except_ for our own.

Hopefully the time where we fight for ourselves shall come soon, Inshallah.

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## Pakistani E

Yazp said:


> They're Sunni Hazaras, they went to Hazara division and we went to Quetta.
> Most of them are now mixed with Phatans today.
> They are still my tribesmen, regardless of their Religion, However most of them don't identify themselves as Hazaras since they fear getting killed for it.
> 
> 
> Thanks mate
> 
> Here are a few pictures of relatively young Hazaras in different Armed forces:
> View attachment 242179
> 
> View attachment 242180
> 
> View attachment 242186
> 
> View attachment 242187
> 
> 
> View attachment 242181
> 
> View attachment 242183
> View attachment 242184



Hazaras are one of the most patriotic, educated and peaceful communities of Pakistan. I salute them for their service, it is a pity that not enough is being done to protect them. I wish the state of Pakistan becomes serious in protecting all the people of Pakistan without distinction. I for one will never forget their sacrifices for this nation.



Yazp said:


> Unfortunately there are also a considerable amount of Hazara Mercenaries working in a certain war-torn Arab state, alongside a certain dictator, on behalf of a certain middle-eastern state.
> View attachment 242188
> 
> We're probably the most resilient nation, if not one of the most. But we've fought for everyone, and tried to solve everyone else's problems, _except_ for our own.
> 
> Hopefully the time where we fight for ourselves shall come soon, Inshallah.



I agree, these people should come back and hunt down those ******* who are wandering around freely targeting the community. Their energies are better served here.

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## Kambojaric

Could you expand on the main Hazara tribes @Yazp? What are their histories, Where have they migrated from etc?


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## Yazp

Bamxa said:


> Could you expand on the main Hazara tribes @Yazp? What are their histories, Where have they migrated from etc?


I will not talk much about this subject, but here:

*Jaghori:*
Ilkhanate.
Ilkhanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Dai Zangi:*
Oriat.
Oirats - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Uruzgani: *
Qara Khitan/Chobainds.
Qara Khitai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chobanids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Polada:

Daikundi:
???*
I do not know much about them.


You see, our history has not been recorded properly.

I do not like these "subtribes", I think that all Hazaras should unite under one banner, and forget these subtribes/clans. But then again, the problem with not only Hazara, but Mongol blood is that every Tom, Dick and Harry wants to be a leader, and all of them will start fighting each other for petty matters instead of uniting against one foe.

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## maxpayne

Yazp said:


> They're Sunni Hazaras, they went to Hazara division and we went to Quetta.
> Most of them are now mixed with Phatans today.
> They are still my tribesmen, regardless of their Religion, However most of them don't identify themselves as Hazaras since they fear getting killed for it.
> 
> 
> Thanks mate
> 
> Here are a few pictures of relatively young Hazaras in different Armed forces:
> View attachment 242179
> 
> View attachment 242180
> 
> View attachment 242186
> 
> View attachment 242187
> 
> 
> View attachment 242181
> 
> View attachment 242183
> View attachment 242184


I'm from Haripur and hazara. I have less research over my ancestors. But I do have my lineage listed as direct descendant of Hazrat Abbas (ra). If we belongs to same lineage why is sectarian and language difference? Also in Hazara division all Hazaras speaks hindko which makes me ponder why they have their separate language and traditions? And yes, we have copied much of pathan culture...
I have one jigri frnd from Quetta and he is Hazara like u, some times we argue on this and he shares ur point of view.

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## maxpayne

Pakistani Exile said:


> Hazaras are one of the most patriotic, educated and peaceful communities of Pakistan. I salute them for their service, it is a pity that not enough is being done to protect them. I wish the state of Pakistan becomes serious in protecting all the people of Pakistan without distinction. I for one will never forget their sacrifices for this nation.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, these people should come back and hunt down those ******* who are wandering around freely targeting the community. Their energies are better served here.


General Musa Khan..

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## Pakistani E

maxpayne said:


> General Musa Khan..



Does anyone have more information? I know only the basics.

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## maxpayne

Pakistani Exile said:


> Does anyone have more information? I know only the basics.


Simply google about him..


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## Yazp

Samandri said:


> Was that intentional?
> By the way Hazaraywals/Hindkowans have nothing to do with your hazaras.


Oh, sorry...

Yes, they do. As I said, they're mixed in with Pashtuns. They don't remember their history, but we remember it.


Pakistani Exile said:


> Does anyone have more information? I know only the basics.


What would you like to know? Ask away.



maxpayne said:


> I'm from Haripur and hazara. I have less research over my ancestors. But I do have my lineage listed as direct descendant of Hazrat Abbas (ra). If we belongs to same lineage why is sectarian and language difference? Also in Hazara division all Hazaras speaks hindko which makes me ponder why they have their separate language and traditions? And yes, we have copied much of pathan culture...
> I have one jigri frnd from Quetta and he is Hazara like u, some times we argue on this and he shares ur point of view.



You see, There are MANY Sunni Hazaras, but they donot call themselves Hazaras to save themselves from persecution, there are many who pass themselves as Uzbeks or Tajiks to save themselves. I don't blame them. And the Hazaras in Hazara district, over time, their culture and language has changed, much like when we came, we were speaking Mongolian and our religon we were Buhddists/Christians, and after some time we changed into Muslims and spoke Persian. (Sunni Hazaras were Sunnies before they came to Haripur) 
I've only met 2 people from there who look Mongolite. When they arrived, they did not preserve their Traditions or their Language and quickly mixed in with the locals.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Subedar Nasir.. Also called Ghazi e Kashmir ... A leader of Pakistan movement .. And Ghazi of 1948 Kashmir war.







Capt Dost Ali Khan - Hazara Pioneers.

_*FLT LT Samad Ali Shaheed (SJ) 1971;



*_


*Capt Shujaat Ali Changazi Shaheed;



*

*COAS Gen Musa Khan;









@Yazp. (Your grandfather ? )


Air Marshal Sharbat Ali Changazi;




*

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## WAJsal

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 242357
> 
> 
> Subedar Nasir.. Also called Ghazi e Kashmir ... A leader of Pakistan movement .. And Ghazi of 1948 Kashmir war.
> 
> 
> View attachment 242358
> 
> 
> Capt Dost Ali Khan - Hazara Pioneers.
> 
> _*FLT LT Samad Ali Shaheed (SJ) 1971;
> View attachment 242359
> *_
> 
> 
> *Capt Shujaat Ali Changazi Shaheed;
> View attachment 242361
> *
> 
> *COAS Gen Musa Khan;
> View attachment 242363
> 
> View attachment 242362
> 
> 
> @Yazp. (Your grandfather ? )
> 
> 
> Air Marshal Sharbat Ali Changazi;
> 
> View attachment 242364
> *


Nice! respect.

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## Pakistani E

Yazp said:


> What would you like to know? Ask away



Yeah, I'm just wandering how close was he to Zia ul Haq as I remember reading he was appointed the governor of Baluchistan by him? Just curious.

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## Yazp

Pakistani Exile said:


> Yeah, I'm just wandering how close was he to Zia ul Haq as I remember reading he was appointed the governor of Baluchistan by him? Just curious.


Neither too close, neither too far.
Gen. Zia-Ul-Haq respected him as his senior, since in 1965, Zia was a Colonel, I think.
He initially refused governorship, but later on accepted it.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Pakistani Exile said:


> Yeah, I'm just wandering how close was he to Zia ul Haq as I remember reading he was appointed the governor of Baluchistan by him? Just curious.



After Readin a bit about zia .. I think we misunderstand the guy.. Yes he was an Islamist but not a secterian person .. For example .. His pilot (Pak I) was Shia ... The pilots who died in the crash also were shia .. One of them a Hazara officer.

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## Yazp

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> After Readin a bit about zia .. I think we misunderstand the guy.. Yes he was an Islamist but not a secterian person .. For example .. His pilot (Pak I) was Shia ... The pilots who died in the crash also were shia .. One of them a Hazara officer.


Indeed. He even supplied Stingers and important aid to Iran including training the initial batches of the IRGC and Quds force by our SSG during the Iran-Iraq war. At the same time he was supporting the Saudis and the Americans. Even the Chinese too... He was on all the sides;

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## Yazp

Lets do a Reboot:





*Meet the Bosrak*, fried, or rather boiled in oil. Flour with I think sugar or something. This stuff is the staple snack. Takes forever to spoil. Lots of calories, and after eating 3 of these small things, one feels full. Usually eaten during supper, or when having tea. Leave this stuff in the open for a few months, and you can use it to crack someones bones in half. (Still edible though) When fresh, it's similar to eating white meat, but with the taste of sweet bread.
Perfect MRE stuff for the Military.
Families cook masses of this stuff in the Summer or Autumn to consume them in the Winters.

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## asad71

Although initially The Baloch (then spelled Baluch) Regimental Center was to be located at Quetta, it was shifted to its current location at Abbottabad. Therefore, Baloch/Hazara officers came in but no Baloch/Hazara soldier was recruited. This changed with the '65 War. In fact in our Bn we had received a platoon of Hazaras. When Hazara soldiers were seen on sentry duty along the CFL crossings, there was hue and cry in Indian press about Chinese soldiers in PA.

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## Yazp

Here's an old picture of the 106th Pioneers, back when the British ruled. This is most probably the late 1800s. Third man from the top right is General Musa's father.





Bonus, here's I think the US ambassador meeting Quaid-E-Azam.



And here is Nawaz Sharif meeting the US ambassador:






Anyone else feel a change over the years?

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## Yazp

A few pictures from 65 of the General.

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## Yazp

Some pictures from the Hazara Civil war in the 80's:












Orchestrated by none other than Iranian backed Hazara moulvis who the Iranians payed to orchestrate a Civil war in the Hazaras so the Soviets could focus on the Pashtuns only, in exchange for the Soviet union giving 9M113 Kornet wire guided missiles amongst other things to Iran.

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## Kambojaric

Wait Hazaras were fighting each other during the Soviet occupation? :/

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## Yazp

Bamxa said:


> Wait Hazaras were fighting each other during the Soviet occupation? :/


Indeed, at first we were fighting the Soviets, but then fighting broke out between two factions one being relatively moderate and the other one extremist. Both were given funding, arms and ammo by the same party, Iran.
Extremist one was completely destroyed. During said civil war, more Hazaras were killed than the Taliban had killed. Thanks alot, Iran! Iran isn't pro "Shiaism", anyone who thinks else needs to get their facts checked, Iran only looks to its own interest, even if Shia's are killed. (Same goes for the Saudis).


Also, don't forget the time the Hezb sent a group of soldiers to fight the Russians in Chechniya, on the Wahhabi insurgent side... Also, payed for by Iran.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Yazp said:


> View attachment 269505
> View attachment 269506
> View attachment 269507
> View attachment 269508
> View attachment 269509
> View attachment 269510
> View attachment 269511
> View attachment 269512
> View attachment 269513
> 
> 
> A few pictures from 65 of the General.



Gen Musa was a handsome man!

I saw his pic from the IMA period .. 



Yazp said:


> Indeed, at first we were fighting the Soviets, but then fighting broke out between two factions one being relatively moderate and the other one extremist. Both were given funding, arms and ammo by the same party, Iran.
> Extremist one was completely destroyed. During said civil war, more Hazaras were killed than the Taliban had killed. Thanks alot, Iran! Iran isn't pro "Shiaism", anyone who thinks else needs to get their facts checked, Iran only looks to its own interest, even if Shia's are killed. (Same goes for the Saudis).
> 
> 
> Also, don't forget the time the Hezb sent a group of soldiers to fight the Russians in Chechniya, on the Wahhabi insurgent side... Also, payed for by Iran.




Both Iran n KSA use beliefs as fukin political tools for national interests ... They don't give a shyt who lives or dies -- all it matters to them is saving their own azz and spreading their influence... Bahrain,Iraq,Syria - have been destroyed thanks to both these countries.

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## libertycall

Yazp said:


> Here's a small article I've written about my people, The Hazaras:
> I will add more parts to this as I get time to write them in follow up posts on this same thread
> Enjoy!
> 
> Origins:
> 
> The word Hazara comes from the Persian word _“Hazar” _which means a thousand. This is a reference to one of Ghengeis Khan's military units, the _“Mingghan” _a regiment made up of 100 _“Arbans” _(One Arban is a hundred men)_. _
> 
> Most Hazaras came to Afghanistan with Ghengeis Khan during his Khwarezmian campaign. ( It was not originally the intention of the Mongol Empire to invade the Khwarezmid Empire. According to the Persian historian Juzjani, Genghis Khan had originally sent the ruler of the Khwarezmid Empire, Ala ad-Din Muhammad, a message seeking trade and greeted him as his neighbor: "I am master of the lands of the rising sun while you rule those of the setting sun. Let us conclude a firm treaty of friendship and peace”. Which the “Sultan” broke after he beheaded an innocent Mongol caravan.)
> 
> After taking a city from the enemy, a Garrison was stationed in the city, Thus the Mongols settled there and somewhat merged with the local population, slowly abandoning Mongolian and shifting to Dari.
> 
> The second wave of Hazaras coming to Afghanistan was during the 1251 when Halagu Khan was sent to:
> 
> 
> Suppress the Ismaili _Ḥashshāshīn_rebellion
> 
> and to Suppress the Abbasid Caliphate which now had rebelled, when they had agreed to be a Mongol Vassal when Ghengeis Khan had come.



That's *your sanitized *version of your history. Let me point out the Pashtun version. 

1. The word Hazara comes from the Persian word _“Hazar” _which means a thousand. 

Ghengis sent an army under his grandson, Mutugen,* to lay India to waste*. When I say *lay to waste* consider what this means. The Mongols at one point seriously considered the* Holocaust of the entire people of China* so they would have more grasslands for their horses. That's what Ghengis intended to do to the ancestors of the Jatts and the Hindus. At the very least we know he wiped out 25% of the population of Asia and Europe. 

Anyway, the Mongol army decided that invading the lands of the Pashtuns (Afghanistan) would be a cakewalk and the Mongols arrogantly demanded the Pashtuns of one city surrender and provide them with provisions so they could go on towards India. 

The Pashtuns refused. In the city of Bamiyan, the Pashtuns bravely prepared to defend their homes from a Mongol army sent to conquer the whole of India. 

Such was their courage that the Pashtuns of Bamiyan defeated this massive army, and killed Mutugen. 

Ghengis responded by diverting an army he was sending *to lay Europe to waste *and utterly destroyed the city of Bamiyan. Most of the Afghan population of that city were buried alive by the Mongols. 

But because the Pashtuns refused to surrender and continued to fight using guerrilla tactics, he set up units of Hazar soldiers each to hunt down and engage in a Holocaust of the Afghans. According to contemporary chroniclers, 80% of the Pashtun population was wiped out with the rest retreating to mountains and deserts. Consider that according to historians Hitler wiped out 30 - 50% of the Jewish population of the world. 

In the city of Herat and its surroundings alone we know that your ancestors killed according to historians 1.6 MILLION people. We know from DNA tests that the virtually the ENTIRE population of Iraq was wiped out by your ancestors.

Do you think many Jews even hundreds of years from now would look kindly upon Germans who wanted to celebrate the achievements of their Nazi ancestors? You claim that the Afghans 'persecuted' the Mongols in the 1700's by asking them to pay taxes. That's called civilization--novel idea I know, right?! On the other hand the persecution of the Afghans at the hands of the Hazaras began 500 years earlier. 

2. Most Hazaras came to Afghanistan with Ghengeis Khan during his Khwarezmian campaign.

You make it sound as if one of the greatest holocausts in human civilization was a package holiday. Your ancestors invaded the Pashtun homeland of Afghanistan. They were not invited. They were not welcome. And it wasn't theirs. 

Your ancestral homeland is Mongolia not Afghanistan. 

3. ( It was not originally the intention of the Mongol Empire to invade the Khwarezmid Empire. According to the Persian historian Juzjani, Genghis Khan had originally sent the ruler of the Khwarezmid Empire, Ala ad-Din Muhammad, a message seeking trade and greeted him as his neighbor: "I am master of the lands of the rising sun while you rule those of the setting sun. Let us conclude a firm treaty of friendship and peace”. Which the “Sultan” broke after he beheaded an innocent Mongol caravan.)

This is false on a number of accounts. 

The Khwarizm Shah had excellent reasons for treating the Mongols as hostiles. In his wars with the Suri empire (called 'Ghorid' despite the fact its rulers were Suris), the Khwarizm Shah at one desperate moment had been sent an army by the Qara Khitai. This placed him in a position where he was allied to the Qara Khitai. Kuchlug the leader of the Qara Khitai was regarded as a mortal enemy by Ghengis. This meant it was impossible for the Khwarizm Shah to treat the Mongols as friends without engaging in treachery towards his allies the Qara Khitai. 

The Khwarizm Shah had made it clear that Mongols were not permitted in his lands. His governer, Inaljuq of Otrar subsequently discovered that a group of Mongols had entered the kingdom claiming to be merchants, but carrying so much wealth that he believed they were sent to try and recruit spies in the Empire for future missions. He had them executed. 

Since the Khwarizm Shah had already made it clear that he was not interested in breaking his links with the Qara Khitai, Ghengis decided to try and sow discord between the Khwarizmian Empire and the Qara Khitai by sending Mongol envoys and pretending that the Khwarezmians were about to abandon the Qara Khitai. This is actually a tactic straight from the Chinese 'Romance of three kingdoms'. It is because of this attempt that the Khwarezmian Shah had the 'envoys' executed, to demonstrate to the Qara Khitai that he was not going to break his treaty with them.

The Khwarizmian Empire fell, millions of people died, and the lights of Baghdad went out, not because because the Shah was 'nasty to the poor honest Mongol envoys'; it fell because the Sunni Caliph was too trusting of his treacherous Shiite minister Ibn Al-Qami.

"The Mongol invasion began like the American invasion: with a disgruntled Shi'ite upstart aspiring to greatness. The Ahmad Chalabi of the 13th century was a character called Ibn al-'Alqami. Al-'Alqami was a minister in the court of the Caliph al-Musta'sim. Like Chalabi, al-'Alqami had desires of leadership of the land and, like Chalabi, he was not above soliciting the assistance of foreign powers to help – even if that assistance would come at great cost to his people or his nation. America was not a superpower in al-Alqami's time so he turned his attentions to the Mongols.

Al-'Alqami wrote a number of letters to the leader of the Mongols, Hulagu Khan, inviting him to invade the land, promising' his support and offering "intelligence" on the Caliph's armies, their strengths and weaknesses, and the overall lay of the land. It would, he assured the Mongols, be a cakewalk and within a short space of time the Mongol Empire could be extended into the previously impervious core of the Muslim Caliphate. At the same time, Al-'Alqami used his position to influence the Caliph to reduce the size of the army thus ensuring that the Mongol invasion would be guaranteed little resistance."

The Mongol Invasion of Iraq: Lessons Never Learned - by Amir Butler

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## Yazp

libertycall said:


> Mongols arrogantly demanded the Pashtuns of one city surrender and provide them with provisions so they could go on towards India.



Look buddy if there's an army of beastly looking Asian men who just went through and killed off most of central asia in a wild killing spree, asking for your surrender, food and provisions, only an idiot would refuse and think that they'd be spared.



libertycall said:


> You claim that the Afghans 'persecuted' the Mongols in the 1700's by asking them to pay taxes. That's called civilization--novel idea I know, right?! On the other hand the persecution of the Afghans at the hands of the Hazaras began 500 years earlier.


Why not, let me impose a special tax that you get because you're born as a special ethnicity. Ideal Civilization right? Even the Greeks would come to you and beg you to let them use your extremely civilized methord of collecting tax from one ethnicity to fill up their empty coffers.

While ethnic and religious tolerance was extremely high in the great and mighty Mongol empire.



libertycall said:


> Your ancestors invaded the Pashtun homeland of Afghanistan. They were not invited. They were not welcome. And it wasn't theirs.
> 
> Your ancestral homeland is Mongolia not Afghanistan.


Afghanistan is not only Pashtuns, nor was it back then. 
I'm sure you wouldn't want to invite, welcome or give your land to INVADERS. It was an invasion, not hey Khorasan province mind if I take you over? 

You have no right to tell me where my homeland is when you yourself came with Alexander. And or are remains of a Hebrew tribe.



libertycall said:


> The Khwarizmian Empire fell, millions of people died, and the lights of Baghdad went out, not because because the Shah was 'nasty to the poor honest Mongol envoys'; it fell because the Sunni Caliph was too trusting of his treacherous Shiite minister Ibn Al-Qami.


You're mixing up two separate things, first you're talking about the totally just and needed for obvious reasons invasion of Khwerezemia. 
And then talking about how bagdad fell about half a century later during Halagus invasion.



libertycall said:


> unni Caliph was too trusting of his treacherous Shiite minister Ibn Al-Qami.
> 
> "The Mongol invasion began like the American invasion: with a disgruntled Shi'ite upstart aspiring to greatness. The Ahmad Chalabi of the 13th century was a character called Ibn al-'Alqami. Al-'Alqami was a minister in the court of the Caliph al-Musta'sim. Like Chalabi, al-'Alqami had desires of leadership of the land and, like Chalabi, he was not above soliciting the assistance of foreign powers to help – even if that assistance would come at great cost to his people or his nation. America was not a superpower in al-Alqami's time so he turned his attentions to the Mongols.
> 
> Al-'Alqami wrote a number of letters to the leader of the Mongols, Hulagu Khan, inviting him to invade the land, promising' his support and offering "intelligence" on the Caliph's armies, their strengths and weaknesses, and the overall lay of the land. It would, he assured the Mongols, be a cakewalk and within a short space of time the Mongol Empire could be extended into the previously impervious core of the Muslim Caliphate. At the same time, Al-'Alqami used his position to influence the Caliph to reduce the size of the army thus ensuring that the Mongol invasion would be guaranteed little resistance."



I don't think the Vizer would betray the fine and just caliph if he hadn't started sectarian differences. (Or insulted the poor guys poetry)
We got minimal resistance thanks to friends, and drowned the already small army.
Halagus entered with the intention of arranging a few marriages with the caliphs family and other influential people.
That's when one stupid Arab decided to take a potshot at the guy who just took over the city, and hit one of his top advisors. Pissing off the Khan greatly.
The Caliph said "it is the will of God" that you captured the city ect, ect.
And Halagu said "What will happen to you is also the will of God". Before promptly wrapping him in a carpet and getting him trampled by horses.

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## libertycall

Yazp said:


> Look buddy....
> 
> While ethnic and religious tolerance was extremely high in the great and mighty Mongol empire.
> 
> Afghanistan is not only Pashtuns, nor was it back then.
> I'm sure you wouldn't want to invite, welcome or give your land to INVADERS. It was an invasion, not hey Khorasan province mind if I take you over?
> 
> You have no right to tell me where my homeland is when you yourself came with Alexander. And or are remains of a Hebrew tribe.



We're not buddies. 



> "Overall, the Mongol violence and depredations killed up to three-fourths of the population of the Iranian Plateau, possibly 10 to 15 million people. Some historians have estimated that Iran's population did not again reach its pre-Mongol levels until the mid-20th century."



Immortal: A Military History of Iran and Its Armed Forces - Steven Ward

The Yuezhi are the ancestors of the Yousufzai. The Kushans were Yuezhi. The Chinese empire acknowledged the Yuezhi as the rightful and civilized rulers of Central Asia. Nobody. I repeat NOBODY recognized your ancestors as 'civilized'. The Hepthali were also Yuezhi. Pashto is ONE of the languages of our ancestors. The Italians don't speak Latin but we recognize them as the descendants of the Romans. 



> "The Pashtuns began as a union of largely East-Iranian tribes which became the initial ethnic stratum of the Pashtun ethnogenesis, dates from the middle of the first millennium CE and is connected with the dissolution of the Epthalite (White Huns) confederacy. [...] Of the contribution of the Epthalites (White Huns) to the ethnogenesis of the Pashtuns we find evidence in the ethnonym of the largest of the Pashtun tribe unions, the Abdali (Durrani after 1747) associated with the ethnic name of the Epthalites — Abdal. The Siah-posh, the Kafirs (Nuristanis) of the Hindu Kush, called all Pashtuns by a general name of Abdal still at the beginning of the 19th century."
> 
> Gankovsky, Yu. V., et al. A History of Afghanistan, Moscow: Progress Publishers, 1982, pg 382



Regarding your homeland, in your case as the Hindus say, 'Ghar mein Raam, Gali mein Shaam'. 

The Hazara Mongolians asked to open a Mongolian Embassy in Afghanistan : InfoMongolia.com : News and information about Mongolia, Mongolian language lessons


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## Samandri

libertycall said:


> That's *your sanitized *version of your history. Let me point out the Pashtun version.
> 
> 1. The word Hazara comes from the Persian word _“Hazar” _which means a thousand.
> 
> Ghengis sent an army under his grandson, Mutugen,* to lay India to waste*. When I say *lay to waste* consider what this means. The Mongols at one point seriously considered the* Holocaust of the entire people of China* so they would have more grasslands for their horses. That's what Ghengis intended to do to the ancestors of the Jatts and the Hindus. At the very least we know he wiped out 25% of the population of Asia and Europe.
> 
> Anyway, the Mongol army decided that invading the lands of the Pashtuns (Afghanistan) would be a cakewalk and the Mongols arrogantly demanded the Pashtuns of one city surrender and provide them with provisions so they could go on towards India.
> 
> The Pashtuns refused. In the city of Bamiyan, the Pashtuns bravely prepared to defend their homes from a Mongol army sent to conquer the whole of India.
> 
> Such was their courage that the Pashtuns of Bamiyan defeated this massive army, and killed Mutugen.
> 
> Ghengis responded by diverting an army he was sending *to lay Europe to waste *and utterly destroyed the city of Bamiyan. Most of the Afghan population of that city were buried alive by the Mongols.
> 
> But because the Pashtuns refused to surrender and continued to fight using guerrilla tactics, he set up units of Hazar soldiers each to hunt down and engage in a Holocaust of the Afghans. According to contemporary chroniclers, 80% of the Pashtun population was wiped out with the rest retreating to mountains and deserts. Consider that according to historians Hitler wiped out 30 - 50% of the Jewish population of the world.
> 
> In the city of Herat and its surroundings alone we know that your ancestors killed according to historians 1.6 MILLION people. We know from DNA tests that the virtually the ENTIRE population of Iraq was wiped out by your ancestors.
> 
> Do you think many Jews even hundreds of years from now would look kindly upon Germans who wanted to celebrate the achievements of their Nazi ancestors? You claim that the Afghans 'persecuted' the Mongols in the 1700's by asking them to pay taxes. That's called civilization--novel idea I know, right?! On the other hand the persecution of the Afghans at the hands of the Hazaras began 500 years earlier.
> 
> 2. Most Hazaras came to Afghanistan with Ghengeis Khan during his Khwarezmian campaign.
> 
> You make it sound as if one of the greatest holocausts in human civilization was a package holiday. Your ancestors invaded the Pashtun homeland of Afghanistan. They were not invited. They were not welcome. And it wasn't theirs.
> 
> Your ancestral homeland is Mongolia not Afghanistan.
> 
> 3. ( It was not originally the intention of the Mongol Empire to invade the Khwarezmid Empire. According to the Persian historian Juzjani, Genghis Khan had originally sent the ruler of the Khwarezmid Empire, Ala ad-Din Muhammad, a message seeking trade and greeted him as his neighbor: "I am master of the lands of the rising sun while you rule those of the setting sun. Let us conclude a firm treaty of friendship and peace”. Which the “Sultan” broke after he beheaded an innocent Mongol caravan.)
> 
> This is false on a number of accounts.
> 
> The Khwarizm Shah had excellent reasons for treating the Mongols as hostiles. In his wars with the Suri empire (called 'Ghorid' despite the fact its rulers were Suris), the Khwarizm Shah at one desperate moment had been sent an army by the Qara Khitai. This placed him in a position where he was allied to the Qara Khitai. Kuchlug the leader of the Qara Khitai was regarded as a mortal enemy by Ghengis. This meant it was impossible for the Khwarizm Shah to treat the Mongols as friends without engaging in treachery towards his allies the Qara Khitai.
> 
> The Khwarizm Shah had made it clear that Mongols were not permitted in his lands. His governer, Inaljuq of Otrar subsequently discovered that a group of Mongols had entered the kingdom claiming to be merchants, but carrying so much wealth that he believed they were sent to try and recruit spies in the Empire for future missions. He had them executed.
> 
> Since the Khwarizm Shah had already made it clear that he was not interested in breaking his links with the Qara Khitai, Ghengis decided to try and sow discord between the Khwarizmian Empire and the Qara Khitai by sending Mongol envoys and pretending that the Khwarezmians were about to abandon the Qara Khitai. This is actually a tactic straight from the Chinese 'Romance of three kingdoms'. It is because of this attempt that the Khwarezmian Shah had the 'envoys' executed, to demonstrate to the Qara Khitai that he was not going to break his treaty with them.
> 
> The Khwarizmian Empire fell, millions of people died, and the lights of Baghdad went out, not because because the Shah was 'nasty to the poor honest Mongol envoys'; it fell because the Sunni Caliph was too trusting of his treacherous Shiite minister Ibn Al-Qami.
> 
> "The Mongol invasion began like the American invasion: with a disgruntled Shi'ite upstart aspiring to greatness. The Ahmad Chalabi of the 13th century was a character called Ibn al-'Alqami. Al-'Alqami was a minister in the court of the Caliph al-Musta'sim. Like Chalabi, al-'Alqami had desires of leadership of the land and, like Chalabi, he was not above soliciting the assistance of foreign powers to help – even if that assistance would come at great cost to his people or his nation. America was not a superpower in al-Alqami's time so he turned his attentions to the Mongols.
> 
> Al-'Alqami wrote a number of letters to the leader of the Mongols, Hulagu Khan, inviting him to invade the land, promising' his support and offering "intelligence" on the Caliph's armies, their strengths and weaknesses, and the overall lay of the land. It would, he assured the Mongols, be a cakewalk and within a short space of time the Mongol Empire could be extended into the previously impervious core of the Muslim Caliphate. At the same time, Al-'Alqami used his position to influence the Caliph to reduce the size of the army thus ensuring that the Mongol invasion would be guaranteed little resistance."
> 
> The Mongol Invasion of Iraq: Lessons Never Learned - by Amir Butler



Do you have any source to back up your claim that people of Bamiyan were Pashtuns i.e Pashto speakers?. I can prove to you that even Ghurids of Ghor were not Pashtuns.

Pashtuns/Afghans did clash with Mongols, but that was in the battle of Parwan (not Parwan province but the village of same name in the vicinity of Ghazni) in 1221. Jalaludin Khwarzemi recruited Afghan tribesmen from the surrounding hills of Ghazni and this combined Turk-Afghan army inflicted their first ever defeat on the Mongols. After battle, the Afghan tribesmen developed dispute with Turks over spoils of battle and left the camp of Jalaludin.

About you labeling Hazaras as foreigners to Afghanistan........Pashtuns themselves are very recent arrivals, in northern provinces like Kunduz, their settlements there date back to 19th century....while Hazaras in central Afghanistan are inhabitants since 13th century.......and Hindkowans can say the same about Pashtun tribes in KPK. The oldest settlement of Pashtuns in KPK will be of Dilazak tribes in Mahmud Ghaznvi tribes while Bulk of Pashtuns (the Khashi tribes) migrated to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in late 15th century

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## Zeeshan Farooqi

Very nice story of Abdul Rehman.


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## Bab-e-Khyber

You neglected to mention all the crimes committed by these Mongolian ancestors that you are so proud of.


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## Kabira

Hazarajat zindabad, should be separate country. Every Pakistani support independent Hazarajat

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## Bab-e-Khyber

Tesky said:


> Hazarajat zindabad, should be separate country. Every Pakistani support independent Hazarajat


Who gave you the authority to speak for every Pakistani?


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## Kabira

Bab-e-Khyber said:


> Who gave you the authority to speak for every Pakistani?



They have been through genocide with 80% of hazaras killed not long ago. We sympathise with them.

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## Mian Babban

Tesky said:


> Hazarajat zindabad, should be separate country. Every Pakistani support independent Hazarajat


So centrally placed they are and no major city in Hazarajat while Bamiyan is merely a town. 

I was reading 19th century account of Hazaras and the British interviewing them realized that Hazaras themselves had no legend or tradition of descent from Mongols, they had not even heard the name of Genghis Khan. Europeans looked at them and clearly saw Mongols in them. When they consulted medieval Persian sources , Hazaras were mentioned to be related to Mongols. Abu Fazal declares them to be descendants of Chagatai army sent by Manku Khan to assist Halaku Khan. So this trend of having surnames "Chengezi" and bragging about achievements of Genghis Khan , is relatively recent. This means that the notion that Afghans (Afghanistan's Pashtuns) were mean to them because Genghis Khan did this and that in early 13th century, is false .

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## wiseone2

Tesky said:


> Hazarajat zindabad, should be separate country. Every Pakistani support independent Hazarajat


another landlocked country ??


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## Kabira

wiseone2 said:


> another landlocked country ??



I was only half serious. Afghan pashtuns claim Pak lands based on common ethnicity even though they are majority in only 30% of Afghanistan land themselves and Kabul is majority farsi/dari city.







Hazaras should start with federation system first and hope for the best.

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## Kabira

_"Pakistan Air Marshal Sharbat Ali Changezi, who even as a junior flying officer in 1955, refused to be presented to the visiting Afghan king, Zahir Shah, because of his persecution of the Hazaras."_


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## niaz

I am a student of history. I have not come across many history books about Hazaras even though I have read the accounts written by Air Marshal Changezi.

I would like to know as why Mongol tribes chose to settle in Hazarajat and not other areas of present day Afghanistan and the history of the Hazarajat from the Timurid times until the time of the Barakzais.

Any suggestions?


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## TMA

Kaptaan said:


> Great thread and it is in the correct category. Appreciate your effort. Maybe you could list the contribution made to Pakistan by the Hazara's community like soldiers, sports people etc. I love football and the place my brother works ( UK ) has a young Hazara lad who apparently is like the next Maradona.
> 
> Maybe you could kick off with General Musa Khan?
> 
> @xenon54 Is there any Turkish connection here?


Is he Pak Hazara or Afghan Hazara?



Yazp said:


> They're Sunni Hazaras, they went to Hazara division and we went to Quetta.
> Most of them are now mixed with Phatans today.
> They are still my tribesmen, regardless of their Religion, However most of them don't identify themselves as Hazaras since they fear getting killed for it.
> 
> 
> Thanks mate
> 
> Here are a few pictures of relatively young Hazaras in different Armed forces:
> View attachment 242179
> 
> View attachment 242180
> 
> View attachment 242186
> 
> View attachment 242187
> 
> 
> View attachment 242181
> 
> View attachment 242183
> View attachment 242184


It is good to see so many Hazara's in Pakistan's military.


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## TMA

Yazp said:


> Look buddy if there's an army of beastly looking Asian men who just went through and killed off most of central asia in a wild killing spree, asking for your surrender, food and provisions, only an idiot would refuse and think that they'd be spared.
> 
> 
> Why not, let me impose a special tax that you get because you're born as a special ethnicity. Ideal Civilization right? Even the Greeks would come to you and beg you to let them use your extremely civilized methord of collecting tax from one ethnicity to fill up their empty coffers.
> 
> While ethnic and religious tolerance was extremely high in the great and mighty Mongol empire.
> 
> 
> Afghanistan is not only Pashtuns, nor was it back then.
> I'm sure you wouldn't want to invite, welcome or give your land to INVADERS. It was an invasion, not hey Khorasan province mind if I take you over?
> 
> You have no right to tell me where my homeland is when you yourself came with Alexander. And or are remains of a Hebrew tribe.
> 
> 
> You're mixing up two separate things, first you're talking about the totally just and needed for obvious reasons invasion of Khwerezemia.
> And then talking about how bagdad fell about half a century later during Halagus invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Vizer would betray the fine and just caliph if he hadn't started sectarian differences. (Or insulted the poor guys poetry)
> We got minimal resistance thanks to friends, and drowned the already small army.
> Halagus entered with the intention of arranging a few marriages with the caliphs family and other influential people.
> That's when one stupid Arab decided to take a potshot at the guy who just took over the city, and hit one of his top advisors. Pissing off the Khan greatly.
> The Caliph said "it is the will of God" that you captured the city ect, ect.
> And Halagu said "What will happen to you is also the will of God". Before promptly wrapping him in a carpet and getting him trampled by horses.


Look, history is history. It is matter of Truth that the Mongols INVADED the lands they did and it is a matter of TRUTH that they committed heinous oppression of the natives. Of course this is not unique to Mongols, many nations have done this, however now that you guys are Muslims (alhamdullilah), one should call a spade a spade, and condemn the wrongdoing of theirs, even if they were your ancestors.

If you guys are proud of what they did, then of course the descendants of those who were oppressed will not look kindly upon you.


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