# Taiwan can respond to assassination of unarmed fisherman by the Philippines



## Martian2

I have a four-point proposal for the Taiwanese government to respond to the Filipino government's terrorist assassination of an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.

1. Deport all 96,000 Filipinos laborers and maids working in Taiwan. Replacements can be easily found in heavily populated Indonesia or other southeast Asian countries.

2. Conduct military patrols with Taiwan's six 3,600-tonne Kang Ding/La Fayette frigates along the Taiwanese/Filipino sea border. The Taiwanese military should open fire and sink any Filipino warship upon sight. Terrorist Filipino military ships should be exterminated immediately.

3. Taiwan should work in concert with mainland China to immediately block all Filipino imports into Taiwan and mainland China on health grounds of unsanitary Filipino agricultural imports. Every conceivable regulatory measure must be enacted to perpetually block all Filipino manufactured imports. The goal is to keep the Philippines in the Third World forever.

4. We are reaching the end of Chinese military modernization. In 19.5 years, the PLA Navy should be strong enough to push the US Navy out of Asia.

Taiwan reunification should be predicated on annexing the northern half of the Philippines (e.g. Luzon island).

Give us Luzon to allow Taiwanese to build a memorial on present-day Manila to the assassinated Taiwanese fisherman by Filipino government military terrorist thugs.

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## Fsjal

Martian2 said:


> I have a four-point proposal for the Taiwanese government to respond to the Filipino government's terrorist assassination of an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.
> 
> 1. Deport all 96,000 Filipinos laborers and maids working in Taiwan. Replacements can be easily found in heavily populated Indonesia or other southeast Asian countries.
> 
> 2. Conduct military patrols with Taiwan's six 3,600-tonne Kang Ding/La Fayette frigates along the Taiwanese/Filipino sea border. The Taiwanese military should open fire and sink any Filipino warship upon sight. Terrorist Filipino military ships should be exterminated immediately.
> 
> 3. Taiwan should work in concert with mainland China to immediately block all Filipino imports into Taiwan and mainland China on health grounds of unsanitary Filipino agricultural imports. Every conceivable regulatory measure must be enacted to perpetually block all Filipino manufactured imports. The goal is to keep the Philippines in the Third World forever.
> 
> 4. We are reaching the end of Chinese military modernization. In 19.5 years, the PLA Navy should be strong enough to push the US Navy out of Asia.
> 
> Taiwan reunification should be predicated on annexing the northern half of the Philippines (e.g. Luzon island).
> 
> Give us Luzon to allow Taiwanese to build a memorial on present-day Manila to the assassinated Taiwanese fisherman by Filipino government military terrorist thugs.



It was only a small skirmish. Anyway, if one of the Phil Navy uses the latest ship, BRP Gregorio Del Pilar against Taiwan's Kang Ding, then their might be a reason to invade Luzon

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## jhungary

Fsjal said:


> It was only a small skirmish. Anyway, if one of the Phil Navy uses the latest ship, BRP Gregorio Del Pilar against Taiwan's Kang Ding, then their might be a reason to invade Luzon



he think he is on top of the world, he might took some PCP..........just ignore him lol

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## Martian2

Fsjal said:


> It was only a small skirmish. Anyway, if one of the Phil Navy uses the latest ship, BRP Gregorio Del Pilar against Taiwan's Kang Ding, then their might be a reason to invade Luzon



*Luzon Island is fair payment for Filipino terrorism against Taiwan*

It was Filipino government terrorism against an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.

Russia annexed 20% of Georgia over the deaths of ten Russian peacekeepers.

As a native-born Taiwanese, I want Luzon island as payment. Mainland China will have the power to give us Luzon in 19.5 years.

Many Taiwanese will expect big brother Mainland China to help solve a Taiwanese imperative before Taiwan-Mainland China reunification can occur. This is a fair bargain. We Taiwanese agree to reunification and Mainland China helps us annex Luzon.

I'll personally sign up for the Luzon annexation expedition (in 19.5 years). I'm willing to fight and shoot terrorist Filipinos.

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## itaskol

Martian2 said:


> *Luzon Island is fair payment for Filipino terrorism against Taiwan*
> 
> It was Filipino government terrorism against an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.
> 
> Russia annexed 20% of Georgia over the deaths of ten Russian peacekeepers.
> 
> As a native-born Taiwanese, I want Luzon island as payment. Mainland China will have the power to give us Luzon in 19.5 years.
> 
> Many Taiwanese will expect big brother Mainland China to help solve a Taiwanese imperative before Taiwan-Mainland China reunification can occur. This is a fair bargain. We Taiwanese agree to reunification and Mainland China helps us annex Luzon.
> 
> I'll personally sign up for the Luzon annexation expedition (in 19.5 years). I'm willing to fight and shoot terrorist Filipinos.



luozo is too big. first we should take all philipine occupid small Islands ,reef one by one. then take Palawan

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## Kolaps

I don't think that is going to happen.

Actually, we are in the lost side if Taiwan and Luzon became one country.

There are reason why, we, Han Chinese reject expansionism policy and xenophobic.

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## Martian2

Kolaps said:


> I don't think that is going to happen.
> 
> Actually, we are in the lost side if Taiwan and Luzon became one country.
> 
> There are reason why, we, Han Chinese reject expansionism policy and xenophobic.



*Hans must learn to become Romans*

I mean push the Filipinos onto the southern islands. The Jews have pushed the Palestinians into Gaza and the West Bank. We can do the same.

We have the military power (if the US does not interfere) to move the Filipinos to the southern islands of Visayas and Mindanao.

Hans must learn from history and put aside Confucian pacifism. To prosper, we must strike at our enemies. Let's expand our buffer zones and annex Luzon island (and push the Filipinos southward).


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## Zero_wing

Oh please do so!

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## jhungary

Zero_wing said:


> Oh please do so!



Well, he said

Han must become internet keyboard warrior lol

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## Snomannen

Martian2 said:


> *Hans must learn to become Romans*
> 
> I mean push the Filipinos onto the southern islands. The Jews have pushed the Palestinians into Gaza and the West Bank. We can do the same.
> 
> We have the military power (if the US does not interfere) to move the Filipinos to the southern islands of Visayas and Mindanao.
> 
> Hans must learn from history and put aside Confucian pacifism. To prosper, we must strike at our enemies. Let's expand our buffer zones and annex Luzon island (and push the Filipinos southward).



Unfortunately Hans people can't even handle their own problems.
At least fix the food safety issue first then we can talk.

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## Fsjal

Martian2 said:


> *Hans must learn to become Romans*
> 
> I mean push the Filipinos onto the southern islands. The Jews have pushed the Palestinians into Gaza and the West Bank. We can do the same.
> 
> We have the military power (if the US does not interfere) to move the Filipinos to the southern islands of Visayas and Mindanao.
> 
> Hans must learn from history and put aside Confucian pacifism. To prosper, we must strike at our enemies. Let's expand our buffer zones and annex Luzon island (and push the Filipinos southward).



Why south.
This sounds more like a Chinese Nazi dream...
And I had respect for Chinese people...


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## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> *Hans must learn to become Romans*
> 
> I mean push the Filipinos onto the southern islands. The Jews have pushed the Palestinians into Gaza and the West Bank. We can do the same.
> 
> We have the military power (if the US does not interfere) to move the Filipinos to the southern islands of Visayas and Mindanao.
> 
> Hans must learn from history and put aside Confucian pacifism. To prosper, we must strike at our enemies. Let's expand our buffer zones and annex Luzon island (and push the Filipinos southward).


So,join the TW army and fight now,dont just bark loudly here. We will buy a nice coffin for you if you get head shoot by Phil sharp shooter

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## shuttler

KirovAirship said:


> Unfortunately Hans people can't even handle their own problems.
> At least fix the food safety issue first then we can talk.



I dont think social issues can be mixed up with political crisis

american has mounains of problems like drugs, gun-shots ... but they still go to war with other countries

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## shuttler

If the Taiwanese decide to go to military conflicts with Pinoys, Mainland China will be on their side, always!

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## Viet

Martian2, you shall return to Taiwan and lead the army to invade the Philippines. That will be a fun for all of us.

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## p3avi8tor69

Nothing will come out of it other some fine choice of words and grandstanding from the Taiwanese government. The strong US-Philippine bond and the Mutual Defense Treaty that both nations have guarantee that all this will just be talk. The United States' relationship with Taiwan in hinged in containing China by arming the Taiwanese, however, I think the the bond with the Pinoy goes deeper regardless of the Pinoy's irresponsibility.


No two strong allies of the US goes head to head. It'll never happen.

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## Snomannen



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## faithfulguy

No need to invade Philippine. Just arrest and put the Philippino military on trial will do. If they are found guilty, execute them.

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## ChinaToday

Taiwan government don't have the balls they only good at annoying china

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## Zero_wing

Please do so see what happens? i mean you had the nerved to condemn us while you try to ram a philippine ship wow but of course we fell sorry for the lose of live but we will protect ourselves and besides it was in our waters what gives your country the right to demand things from us.

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## Martian2

*The Philippines is the most 'barbaric' country in the South China Sea*

The PLA Navy should patrol the Taiwan province-Philippine sea border to defend against Philippine government terrorists that shoot unarmed Taiwanese fishermen.

----------

China, Taiwan protest fatal shooting of fisherman by Philippines - latimes.com

"The Philippines is the most 'barbaric' country in the South China Sea,&#8217;&#8217; editorialized the Communist Party-run Global Times on Friday. *"If it is confirmed the Philippine navy is behind the shooting, the mainland should show its stance by intensifying navy activities in the disputed water between the mainland and Philippines."*

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## Zero_wing

Wow they threat us with war, called our country part of theirs and ramming and shooting filipinos fishing vessels in Philippine waters too afraid to follow international law by going ITCLOS and stealing our natural resources and now calling us barbaric for enforcing our laws in our own waters because taiwanese were stupid enough to under mind us by ramming a small PCG doing its job thinking it belongs to pathetic country anyway but got shot by going this stupid act and now your telling us were barbaric wow its like a theft insults his victim for being rob by him and shot at him for comic effect typical commie imperial propaganda.

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## USAHawk785

Taiwan will do nothing. One old Taiwanese fisherman was dead, who cares. He deserved it for intruding into Philippine territorial waters and for trying to evade military ships trying to enforce interdiction prerogatives. The man was 65, at least he went down with a 'bang'.





KirovAirship said:


>




hahaha! very funny.

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## Ayush

^^ lol funny indeed..


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## USAHawk785

The Philippines can never be touched. She is too precious and too strategically important in American Strategic interests for it to be touched by any foreign power. Any foreign power who dares touch the Philippines shall suffer the full might of the United States Navy, Air Force and the Army. 

United States conducted the largest naval invasion in human history back in 1944 to retake the Philippines from the Japs. That illustrates the shear will of our resolve to preserve Philippine-American homeostasis. 

Taiwan, because it is subservient to its American Daddy, will not do anything. Else it will be punished. As for China, LOL. Well, c'mon. The 7th Fleet will eradicate the PLAN from the face of the earth if need be.



Ayush said:


> ^^ lol funny indeed..




Indeed. The moral of the story is that our Pinoy buddies got their revenge. Come hell or high waters, they shot at a Chinese alright...hahahaha!

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## shuttler

Martian2 said:


> *The Philippines is the most 'barbaric' country in the South China Sea*
> 
> The PLA Navy should assume responsibility for patrolling the Taiwan province-Philippine sea border to defend against Philippine government terrorists that shoot unarmed Taiwanese fishermen.
> 
> ----------
> 
> China, Taiwan protest fatal shooting of fisherman by Philippines - latimes.com
> 
> "The Philippines is the most 'barbaric' country in the South China Sea, editorialized the Communist Party-run Global Times on Friday. *"If it is confirmed the Philippine navy is behind the shooting, the mainland should show its stance by intensifying navy activities in the disputed water between the mainland and Philippines."*



as far as I know the China's diplomatic normalcy with the Philippines has not been restored:
1. HK is still holding the most serious travel warning to the people. The unrepentant pinoy government still does not apologize for their wrong doings in the tragedy
2. Since the Wangyan dao stand-off, China has restricted our trade and tourism with the Philippines
3. Taiwan should increase the pressure on the phillippines governmemt and the usa + japanese. The latter 2 supply arms to the philippines. Taiwan should put all trades and travelliing with the Phillippines on hold until the philippines apologises, compensate to the victims' family adequately, has the murderers tried and be charged with the most severe crime in homicide cases

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## shuttler

USAHawk785 said:


> The Philippines can never be touched. She is too precious and too strategically important in American Strategic interests for it to be touched by any foreign power. Any foreign power who dares touch the Philippines shall suffer the full might of the United States Navy, Air Force and the Army.
> 
> United States conducted the largest naval invasion in human history back in 1944 to retake the Philippines from the Japs. That illustrates the shear will of our resolve to preserve Philippine-American homeostasis.



the yankies were kicked out of the philippines sometime ago.



> Taiwan, because it is subservient to its American Daddy, will not do anything. Else it will be punished. As for China, LOL. Well, c'mon. The 7th Fleet will eradicate the PLAN from the face of the earth if need be.



subservient to the american daddy like indians, japanese and s koreans - what a pity

if the 7th fleet approaches the area, PLAN will make sure you'll be greeted the best treat of our weaponry. You only know too late you are making steel coral reefs at the bottom of the ocean by the encroachment




> Indeed. The moral of the story is that our Pinoy buddies got their revenge. Come hell or high waters, they shot at a Chinese alright...hahahaha!



take a shower! how is that funny for you immoral incapable blood thirsty people?

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## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> as far as I know the China's diplomatic normalcy with the Philippines has not been restored:
> 1. HK is still holding the most serious travel warning to the people. The unrepentant pinoy government still does not apologize for their wrong doings in the tragedy
> 2. Since the Wangyan dao stand-off, China has restricted our trade and tourism with the Philippines
> 3. Taiwan should increase the pressure on the phillippines governmemt and the usa + japanese. The latter 2 supply arms to the philippines. Taiwan should put all trades and travelliing with the Phillippines on hold until the philippines apologises, compensate to the victims' family adequately, has the murderers tried and be charged with the most severe crime in homicide cases



Well go ahead means no more drugs and cheap goods industries killer and trouble makers and crimes (majority of Taiwanese) something with you mainlanders who cares about you people your not important to us so take your money and go and besides you guys are hypocrites remember the call for boycott for the philippines and yet tours double anyway so thanks for the publicity suckers.


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## USAHawk785

shuttler said:


> the yankies were kicked out of the philippines sometime ago.
> 
> 
> 
> subservient to the american daddy like indians, japanese and s koreans - what a pity
> 
> if the 7th fleet approaches the area, PLAN will make sure you'll be greeted the best treat of our weaponry. You only know too late you are making steel coral reefs at the bottom of the ocean by the encroachment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> take a shower! how is that funny for you immoral incapable blood thirsty people?



The United States is in the Philippines as we speak vis a vis the Visiting Forces Agreement, not to mention our bases interspersed throughout the islands. 

Don't make me laugh about your comment on the PLAN. The 7th fleet , alone, is more than capable of eradicating the entire PLAN from the face of the earth. Your insignificant navy is substandard and does not have the war experience nor the capability to dare even approach the might of the USN. You cannot even recapture Taiwan for the past 6 decades , which has a diminutive navy, how can you even dare consider taking on the Gargantuan United States Navy. Squatted like flies if you dare talk back. 



No power in this earth , aside from God, can challenge the might of the American Hyperpower.

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## USAHawk785



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## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> as far as I know the China's diplomatic normalcy with the Philippines has not been restored:
> 1. HK is still holding the most serious travel warning to the people. The unrepentant pinoy government still does not apologize for their wrong doings in the tragedy
> 2. Since the Wangyan dao stand-off, China has restricted our trade and tourism with the Philippines
> 3. Taiwan should increase the pressure on the phillippines governmemt and the usa + japanese. The latter 2 supply arms to the philippines. Taiwan should put all trades and travelliing with the Phillippines on hold until the philippines apologises, compensate to the victims' family adequately, has the murderers tried and be charged with the most severe crime in homicide cases



Question do people now the deference between law enforcement and military branch if you people are idiotic enough not to know then you have a problem and again no a chance in hell criminal ha! your in our waters and refuse to stop then you try to ram your boat in our thinking its just small boat from a small insignificant country well i guess you understatement my country my country resolve is clear no apologies only condolences (it was self defense but still a human life is still a human life) If anything the question is why are you inside Philippine Waters you everything in your fishing fleet can't you people tell were you were? i mean our fisher folks have motor a net and bangka and they can tell were they were not unless they got engine trouble which is bad beside they were poacher plus they try to ram us its like a theft complaining he got shot by the owner that he was robbing while threatening the owners life with a gun himself that's just stupid but funny if anything the taiwanese should apologized for trying to ram us (which now one of the popular tactics done by all chinese comime Imperials and now Taiwanese poachers (part two of my post)

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## shuttler

USAHawk785 said:


> The United States is in the Philippines as we speak vis a vis the Visiting Forces Agreement, not to mention our bases interspersed throughout the islands.



time will tell if the bases will persist



> Don't make me laugh about your comment on the PLAN.



you have let me laugh at yours! now your second wave of comics again




> The 7th fleet , alone, is more than capable of eradicating the entire PLAN from the face of the earth. Your insignificant navy is substandard and does not have the war experience nor the capability to dare even approach the might of the USN. You cannot even recapture Taiwan for the past 6 decades , which has a diminutive navy, how can you even dare consider taking on the Gargantuan United States Navy. Squatted like flies if you dare talk back.



take a shower use clean water! come the x fleet from us navy - plenty of coral reefs in the making

we dont take Taiwan because the time in the past has not been right for us 

Taiwan will come back to the Mainland if we are gaining on the present econ-political situation



> No power in this earth , aside from God, can challenge the might of the American Hyperpower.



what is your god who let you rejoice at killing Chinese? catholic protestant hindu or whatever?



USAHawk785 said:


>



the largest block of coral reefs!

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## Zero_wing

Wow you people are running out of words now your attacking people by religion now man? how idiotic well what can i expect from people with no sense of everything


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## shuttler

Zero_wing said:


> Question do people now the deference between law enforcement and military branch if you people are idiotic enough not to know then you have a problem and again no a chance in hell criminal ha! your in our waters and refuse to stop then you try to ram your boat in our thinking its just small boat from a small insignificant country well i guess you understatement my country my country resolve is clear no apologies only condolences (it was self defense but still a human life is still a human life) If anything the question is why are you inside Philippine Waters you everything in your fishing fleet can't you people tell were you were? i mean our fisher folks have motor a net and bangka and they can tell were they were not unless they got engine trouble which is bad beside they were poacher plus they try to ram us its like a theft complaining he got shot by the owner that he was robbing while threatening the owners life with a gun himself that's just stupid but funny if anything the taiwanese should apologized for trying to ram us (which now one of the popular tactics done by all chinese comime Imperials and now Taiwanese poachers (part two of my post)



you are annoying to read

does you english class in india/philippines/elsewhere teach you what are "paragraph" and "punctuation marks"?



Zero_wing said:


> Wow you people are running out of words now your attacking people by religion now man? how idiotic well what can i expect from people with no sense of everything



what do you mean "attacking" it was an open question!

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## Zero_wing

Well your the genus you tell me (sarcastic) and on the english part really? you people can't even speak and write english and your tell me and indians who had links with two different english speaking countries that my english is bad? wow that's just takes the cake you people just love making fools of yourselves but you must be from the intellectual class of your society so know a few things so fine whatever floats your boat.

Then don't read it am not forcing you to read it its not my fault your eyes are too small and it makes you bad at reading things? Maybe you should ask the all powerful god mao to make your eyes bigger in your next life besides in upgrading your class status  

Anyway joking aside 

Looks like the mainlanders both in propaganda department and this forum is just adding fuel to the fire as always. Typical

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## Martian2

*Please vote "up arrow" approval for my four-point proposal on BusinessWeek*

Please visit the BusinessWeek link and go to the comment section at the end of the article. Please vote "up arrow" approval on my four-point proposal. Thank you.

Link: Taiwan Demands Probe With Philippines Into Fisherman Death (1) - Businessweek

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## Zero_wing

Martian2 said:


> *Please vote "up arrow" approval for my four-point proposal on BusinessWeek*
> 
> Please visit the BusinessWeek link and go to the comment section at the end of the article. Please vote "up arrow" approval on my four-point proposal. Thank you.
> 
> Link: Taiwan Demands Probe With Philippines Into Fisherman Death (1) - Businessweek



Do so please i dare them that would help

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## Bob Ong

This is like a thief who tries to break in to your home. Then you wake up and asks him to leave. Instead he tries to attack you, so you are forced to defend yourself by shooting at him. He dies from his gunshot wounds. His country now says you should have not shot him because he is just a helpless thief. LOL, these Taiwanese people are hilarious.

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## Bob Ong

Martian2 said:


> *Filipinos are terrorist scum*
> 
> An unarmed Taiwanese fishermen was killed by Philippine government terrorists. You invented whatever story and excuse you wanted to justify your murderous execution. The unarmed Taiwanese fisherman is dead and can't tell his side of the story.
> 
> You Filipinos killed a defenseless 65-year-old fisherman. You goddamn terrorists.
> 
> You Filipinos are scum.


Fishing in our territory? its the fisherman's recklessness to be blamed. Know where you should fish. 

We do not meddle with your territorial waters. Its a natural instinct to defend ours. But hey, our coasts guard will not react if there's none who instigated it.


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## Juice

Surely Taiwan and The Philippines can resolve this. Be an example to the main-land.

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## Martian2

Bob Ong said:


> Fishing in our territory? its the fisherman's recklessness to be blamed. Know where you should fish.
> 
> We do not meddle with your territorial waters. Its a natural instinct to defend ours. But hey, our coasts guard will not react if there's none who instigated it.



*Defenseless elderly Taiwanese fisherman was closer to Taiwan when he was murdered by Filipino terrorists*

Look at the map. The Taiwanese fishing boat was closer to Taiwan than the Philippines.

The dead defenseless elderly Taiwanese fisherman was in Taiwanese waters. 

You Filipino scumbags.





Source: Taiwan demands PH probe killing, apology | Inquirer Global Nation

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The defenseless 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman was north of the Taiwan-Philippine midpoint line when he was brutally murdered by Philippine government terrorists.

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## king cobra

Martian2 said:


> *Hans must learn to become Romans*
> 
> I mean push the Filipinos onto the southern islands. The Jews have pushed the Palestinians into Gaza and the West Bank. We can do the same.
> 
> We have the military power (if the US does not interfere) to move the Filipinos to the southern islands of Visayas and Mindanao.
> 
> Hans must learn from history and put aside Confucian pacifism. To prosper, we must strike at our enemies. Let's expand our buffer zones and annex Luzon island (and push the Filipinos southward).


why taiwan want Luzon Island ???


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## Bob Ong

Martian2 said:


> *Defenseless elderly Taiwanese fisherman was closer to Taiwan when he was murdered by Filipino terrorists*
> 
> Look at the map. The Taiwanese fishing boat was closer to Taiwan than the Philippines.
> 
> The dead defenseless elderly Taiwanese fisherman was in Taiwanese waters.
> 
> You Filipino scumbags.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Taiwan demands PH probe killing, apology | Inquirer Global Nation
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The defenseless 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman was north of the Taiwan-Philippine midpoint line when he was brutally murdered by Philippine government terrorists.


You moron


EVEN THEIR OWN IMAGE TELLS THEY ARE IN OUR TERRITORY. 






Their image shows that their ship was about the enter the Balintang channel -- between Batanes and Babuyan. They just blur Batanes to create the impression that they are not intruding






Here is a map of the Philippines with Batanes highlighted

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## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> This is like a thief who tries to break in to your home. Then you wake up and asks him to leave. Instead he tries to attack you, so you are forced to defend yourself by shooting at him. He dies from his gunshot wounds. His country now says you should have not shot him because he is just a helpless thief. LOL, these Taiwanese people are hilarious.



poor logic and a blatant twist of facts

1. the area is a place at sea owned by 2 governments
2. one side was civilians - unarmed with a smaller ship the other side was armed with machine guns



Juice said:


> Surely Taiwan and The Philippines can resolve this. Be an example to the main-land.



We dont need that

this may enlighten the indians who are delusional over border disputes with China

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## Bob Ong

shuttler said:


> poor logic and a blatant twist of facts
> 
> 1. the area is a place at sea owned by 2 governments
> 2. one side was civilians - unarmed with a smaller ship the other side was armed with machine guns
> 
> 
> 
> We dont need that
> 
> this may enlighten the indians who are delusional over border disputes with China


A thief is never an innocent.

Balintang Channel clearly is PH territorial Waters.

Taiwan just doesn't want to admit it to avoid admitting its blunder.

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## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> A thief is never an innocent.
> 
> Balintang Channel clearly is PH territorial Waters.
> 
> Taiwan just doesn't want to admit it to avoid admitting its blunder.



why should Taiwan be admitting to something baloney from the pinoy murderers

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## Martian2

Bob Ong said:


> You moron
> 
> 
> EVEN THEIR OWN IMAGE TELLS THEY ARE IN OUR TERRITORY.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their image shows that their ship was about the enter the Balintang channel -- between Batanes and Babuyan. They just blur Batanes to create the impression that they are not intruding



*Google Maps is the most reliable*





Source: Taiwan demands PH probe killing, apology | Inquirer Global Nation

----------





The defenseless 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman was north of the Taiwan-Philippine midpoint line when he was brutally murdered by Philippine government terrorists.

Three points.

1. My map comes from a Filipino publication and the original source is Google Maps. Google Maps is reliable.

2. Your first map shows a giant cartoon ship. It covers roughly 50 miles on the map. It is useless as a point of reference.

3. Your second map is distorted. Your two island specks are much further south than Google Maps.

In conclusion, your proffered maps are distorted and useless. My citation of a Filipino news publication that relies on Google Maps is the most reliable source.


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## Martian2

*Taiwan prepares sanctions on Philippines for murdering elderly Taiwanese fisherman*

Taiwan mulling sanctions against Philippines over shooting: Ma | Latest | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

"Taiwan mulling sanctions against Philippines over shooting: Ma
By Chen Ching-ping, Hao Hsueh-chin and Y.L. Kao
2013/05/11 15:41:19




Taipei, May 11 (CNA) *Taiwan's President Ma Ying-jeou on Saturday said his government will consider imposing sanctions against the Philippines if it does not apologize for opening fire on an unarmed fishing boat, which resulted in the death of a Taiwanese fisherman.

He also asked the Philippines to give the assurance that there will be no repeat of such incidents.

The Philippines must apologize, apprehend the killer and offer compensation for the fishermen's death, Ma said at Taichung Harbor, where he was observing a marine security exercise.
*
The president said he was shocked when he learned that a Taiwanese fisherman had been fatally shot Thursday when the Philippine Coast Guard opened fire on a boat that was fishing in waters north of the Philippine archipelago where the economic zones of the Philippines and Taiwan overlap.

*Excessive use of force by law enforcement officers is not allowed in any country, Ma said, adding that the act of opening fire on an unarmed fishing boat was inhuman, brutal and cold-blooded.*

While the Philippine government has expressed sympathy to the family of the deceased Taiwanese fisherman, it has not apologized for the shooting, an attitude that has given rise to public indignation in Taiwan, Ma said.

*It is absolutely unacceptable for the Philippines to kill someone illegally and then refuse to apologize, the president said.*

Meanwhile, Vice President Wu Den-yih said that the Taiwan public should support any move by the government to take a hard line against the Philippines to force an apology, apprehension of the killer and compensation for the fishermen's death.

The people of Taiwan should absolutely not tolerate any repeat incidents, he added."


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## WuMaoCleverbot

Martian2 said:


> *Google Maps is the most reliable*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Taiwan demands PH probe killing, apology | Inquirer Global Nation
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The defenseless 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman was north of the Taiwan-Philippine midpoint line when he was brutally murdered by Philippine government terrorists.
> 
> Three points.
> 
> 1. My map comes from a Filipino publication and the original source is Google Maps. Google Maps is reliable.
> 
> 2. Your first map shows a giant cartoon ship. It covers roughly 50 miles on the map. It is useless as a point of reference.
> 
> 3. Your second map is distorted. Your two island specks are much further south than Google Maps.
> 
> In conclusion, your proffered maps are distorted and useless. My citation of a Filipino news publication that relies on Google Maps is the most reliable source.



You don't know how to read maps. Why don't you google Babuyan Islands. If you want to measure the midpoint between the Philippines and Taiwan...you should draw the midpoint between Babuyan Islands and Taiwan. The incident cleary shows that it happened between Babuyan Islands and Batanes Islands...well inside Philippine territory.

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## Martian2

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> You don't know how to read maps. Why don't you google Babuyan Islands. If you want to measure the midpoint between the Philippines and Taiwan...you should draw the midpoint between Babuyan Islands and Taiwan. The incident cleary shows that it happened between Babuyan Islands and Batanes Islands...well inside Philippine territory.



Reputable and impartial Google Maps disagrees with you. It is obvious to everyone.

Anyone with eyes can see the Taiwanese fishing boat was north of the Taiwan-Philippines midpoint line and the elderly Taiwanese fisherman did not deserve to be executed by a bunch of Philippine government terrorist thugs.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

Martian2 said:


> Reputable and impartial Google Maps disagrees with you. It is obvious to everyone.
> 
> Anyone with eyes can see the Taiwanese fishing boat was north of the Taiwan-Philippines midpoint line and the elderly Taiwanese fisherman did not deserve to be executed by a bunch of Philippine government terrorist thugs.



Everybody who knows how to use google maps would know you are LYING. Mavudis island(Yami Island) is our northernmost territory...it's much closer to Taiwan than our main island of Luzon. It's only more than 100KM away from Orchid Island.

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## cnleio

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Everybody who knows how to use google maps would know you are LYING. Mavudis island(Yami Island) is our northernmost territory...it's much closer to Taiwan than our main island of Luzon. It's only more than 100KM away from Orchid Island.


Interesting ID ~! Came from the Chinese family or ever ur grandpa were Chinese &#65311;

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## jhungary

Bob Ong said:


> You moron
> 
> 
> EVEN THEIR OWN IMAGE TELLS THEY ARE IN OUR TERRITORY.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their image shows that their ship was about the enter the Balintang channel -- between Batanes and Babuyan. They just blur Batanes to create the impression that they are not intruding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a map of the Philippines with Batanes highlighted








This is the map I got from putting the Geo-Cord from the one in CCTV in google map this is better than the Martian's one


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## UKBengali

Even if the Taiwanese boat was in Philippine waters illegally there can be no justification for opening fire.

The correct thing to have done would have been to arrest the fishermen and try them under the proper legal process.

No wonders us Asians have ended up in this state the way we behave at times.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

UKBengali said:


> Even if the Taiwanese boat was in Philippine waters illegally *there can be no justification for opening fire.*
> 
> The correct thing to have done would have been to arrest the fishermen and try them under the proper legal process.
> 
> No wonders us Asians have ended up in this state the way we behave at times.



They endangered the lives of our officers when they try to ram our CG ship...we have every right to protect ourselves. 





Photo of MCS 3001 (the PCG vessel involved) and MCS 3008

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## UKBengali

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> They endangered the lives of our officers when they try to ram our CG ship...we have every right to protect ourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo of MCS 3001 (the PCG vessel involved) and MCS 3008



Do you have a reliable source that describes the course of events?


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## cnleio

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Photo of MCS 3001 (the PCG vessel involved) and MCS 3008


More details of MCS 3001 patrol boart, what's the weapon, M2 machinegun? ths.


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## Maxtini

Dark blue: Philippines territorial water + EEZ
Green: Disputed EEZ





Certainly the Taiwanese boat has intrude Philippines undisputed EEZ;

Shooting illegal vessels inside one EEZ is not something uncommon, especially if the intrusion is on non-disputed area. 
Just last one to two years ago several Chinese neighbors also shoot Chinese crewmen. The respond was relatively "mild" than this~ 



> *South Korea coastguard shoots Chinese crewman*
> South Korea coastguard shoots Chinese crewman
> 
> *North Korean border guard 'shoots three Chinese dead'*
> BBC News - North Korean border guard 'shoots three Chinese dead'
> 
> *Chinese crewman shot dead in waters off Palau*
> Chinese crewman shot dead in waters off Palau |Top News |chinadaily.com.cn

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## jerry_tan

cnleio said:


> Interesting ID ~! Came from the Chinese family or ever ur grandpa were Chinese &#65311;



Idiot, we are Chinese descent Filipinos even our President has a Chinese blood.


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## faithfulguy

Taiwan should blockade Northern Philippino ports until Philippines hand over the murderers. Sanctions are not enough


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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> Taiwan should blockade Northern Philippino ports until Philippines hand over the murderers. Sanctions are not enough



You got some nerved to talk to us like that sir and you chinese can't spell don't join a english forum! you people were poaching and you have the nerve to threaten us?


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## jerry_tan

> South Korea coastguard shoots Chinese crewman
> South Korea coastguard shoots Chinese crewman
> 
> North Korean border guard 'shoots three Chinese dead'
> BBC News - North Korean border guard 'shoots three Chinese dead'
> 
> Chinese crewman shot dead in waters off Palau
> Chinese crewman shot dead in waters off Palau |Top News |chinadaily.com.cn



Interesting, all are Chicom Chinese


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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> Taiwan should blockade Northern Philippino ports until Philippines hand over the murderers. Sanctions are not enough



You got some nerved to talk to us like that sir and you chinese can't spell don't join a english forum! you people were poaching and you have the nerve to threaten us?


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## shuttler

faithfulguy said:


> Taiwan should blockade Northern Philippino ports until Philippines hand over the murderers. Sanctions are not enough



agreed

the us government is shady on its stance towards the Taiwanese. what a shame!

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## Sanchez

faithfulguy said:


> Taiwan should blockade Northern Philippino ports until Philippines hand over the murderers. Sanctions are not enough



Taiwan will do nothing more than talking.

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## shuttler

jerry_tan said:


> Idiot, we are Chinese descent Filipinos even our President has a Chinese blood.



when you want something from China you are Chinese
when you turn about faces you are filippino

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## Sanchez

shuttler said:


> when you want something from China you are Chinese
> when you turn about faces you are filippino



So they are bustards not Chinese.

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## Bob Ong

Martian2 said:


> *Google Maps is the most reliable*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Taiwan demands PH probe killing, apology | Inquirer Global Nation
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The defenseless 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman was north of the Taiwan-Philippine midpoint line when he was brutally murdered by Philippine government terrorists.
> 
> Three points.
> 
> 1. My map comes from a Filipino publication and the original source is Google Maps. Google Maps is reliable.
> 
> 2. Your first map shows a giant cartoon ship. It covers roughly 50 miles on the map. It is useless as a point of reference.
> 
> 3. Your second map is distorted. Your two island specks are much further south than Google Maps.
> 
> In conclusion, your proffered maps are distorted and useless. My citation of a Filipino news publication that relies on Google Maps is the most reliable source.


You IDIOT, now your saying BATANES is part of Taiwan 

Oh yeah Google Maps is really *reliable*.






It clearly shows it's part of our territory.






Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) Director Asis Perez points at the monitor the exact location where Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) intercepted 4 Taiwanese fishing vessels at 43 NM east of Balintang Island, Luzon Strait

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## faithfulguy

Maybe Taiwan should support the Jihadis against Philippine.

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## shuttler

jerry_tan said:


> South Korea coastguard shoots Chinese crewman
> 
> North Korean border guard 'shoots three Chinese dead'
> BBC News - North Korean border guard 'shoots three Chinese dead'
> 
> 
> Chinese crewman shot dead in waters off Palau |Top News |chinadaily.com.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, all are Chicom Chinese
Click to expand...


all of the cases involved fishing conflicts in our north east area. As such, the conflicts among the three countries have happened

we did not engaged in any major territorial disputes with the Koreans. Pinoys are asking for a special treat!

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## faithfulguy

Sanchez said:


> So they are bustards not Chinese.



Pinoys are compose of Malay, Spanish and Chinese. But of the 3, they are most ashamed of being part Chinese. Some see themselves as Europeans, not as Asians.


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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> Pinoys are compose of Malay, Spanish and Chinese. But of the 3, they are most ashamed of being part Chinese. Some see themselves as Europeans, not as Asians.



Whatever dude because


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## faithfulguy

Taiwan can also tax the remittance that the maids and massage ladies send back to compensate the victims family. Philippino gov need to pay for its wrong deed.


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## shuttler

Andross said:


> This was done by Hans where hans go there is always trouble its their nature



you should blow your hotair somewhere outside of the forum

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## faithfulguy

Zero_wing said:


> You got some nerved to talk to us like that sir and you chinese can't spell don't join a english forum! you people were poaching and you have the nerve to threaten us?



Did I spell Philippinos wrong or the word maid wrong? Your gov need to apologize and compensate. Otherwise, Taiwan will definitely do something. As the current Ma regime is weak, he might go after your maids and street girls.

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> Did I spell Philippinos wrong or the word maid wrong? Your gov need to apologize and compensate. Otherwise, Taiwan will definitely do something. As the current Ma regime is weak, he might go after your maids and street girls.



Sure you need to have good eye sight and now were you are you racist jerk and reported for racist infraction


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## shuttler

faithfulguy said:


> Taiwan can also tax the remittance that the maids and massage ladies send back to compensate the victims family. Philippino gov need to pay for its wrong deed.



the people of HK are also holding grudges over the impotent phillippines causing the most tragic death and causalties to its people

Taiwan and HK should join hands activating the sanctions, banning bilateral trades and the imports of Filippino maids if the pinoy government keeps on bulllshitting, covering up, lying about the case of murder, not doing enough in compensating 
and their head of state is not apologetic to Taiwan

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## faithfulguy

Zero_wing said:


> Sure you need to have good eye sight and now were you are you racist jerk and reported for racist infraction



I am just stating the fact about the professions of Philippina is Taiwan. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

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## Yzd Khalifa

shuttler said:


> If the Taiwanese decide to go to military conflicts with Pinoys, Mainland China will be on their side, always!


And that will have a very significant impact on the two-straits relation. It might also lead to the unification between the PRC and ROC.

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> I am just stating the fact about the professions of Philippina is Taiwan. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?



Yup 11 million strong so screw your attack


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## faithfulguy

shuttler said:


> the people of HK are also holding grudges over the impotent phillippines causing the most tragic death and causalties to its people
> 
> Taiwan and HK should join hands activating the sanctions, banning bilateral trades and the imports of Filippino maids if the pinoy government keeps on bulllshitting, covering up, lying about the case of murder, not doing enough in compensating
> and their head of state is not apologetic to Taiwan



I want to see their president apologize and sack the leader responsible for the pirate marine force. Also, there must be compensation for the victims family. Finally, Philippino government ships cannot sail to within 5 miles of Taiwanese boats and a treaty would be signed to put this in effect.



Zero_wing said:


> Yup 11 million strong so screw your attack



We Taiwanese do not need 11 million maids. We have enough. Thanks for no thanks.

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## shuttler

Yzd Khalifa said:


> And that will have a very significant impact on the two-straits relation. It might also lead to the unification between the PRC and ROC.



I think the move will bring many points towards strengthening the relationship of the 2 sides. Unification is in our minds. Hope the date of achieving that is not too distant

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> I want to see their president apologize and sack the leader responsible for the pirate marine force. Also, there must be compensation for the victims family. Finally, Philippino government ships cannot sail to within 5 miles of Taiwanese boats and a treaty would be signed to put this in effect.
> 
> 
> We Taiwanese do not need 11 million maids. We have enough. Thanks for no thanks.


 dont worry we dont your just using a sterotypes why not cut ties with us because your problematic to us too chinese criminals are every were cutting ties means no more problems for us we have alot of business panthers so we don't need criminals (money loan daring drugs and smuggled goods are done by majority of chinese both mainlanders and taiwanese) like you and your mainland cousins that what you people get for stealing from us! salute for our boys in the coast guard.


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## shuttler

faithfulguy said:


> I want to see their president apologize and sack the leader responsible for the pirate marine force. Also, there must be compensation for the victims family. Finally, Philippino government ships cannot sail to within 5 miles of Taiwanese boats and a treaty would be signed to put this in effect.



also send the murderers on board on death rolls


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## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> also send the murderers on board on death rolls



try to like all your threat its just words you criminal not us you killed millions in your own country alone and steal from others and occupy lands not of your own so go a head make our day


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## Bob Ong

Taiwan should respect other country's territory.

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## faithfulguy

Bob Ong said:


> Taiwan should respect other country's territory.



Stop redraw boundaries. Also, Taiwanese government will respond with sanctions and tax withhold for remittance if Philippine do not apologize in 3 days. After 5 days, Taiwanese navy, including subs, should blockade Luzon island until Philippine government apologize and promise to stay 5 miles away from Taiwanese fishing ships.


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## Bob Ong

faithfulguy said:


> Stop redraw boundaries. Also, Taiwanese government will respond with sanctions and tax withhold for remittance if Philippine do not apologize in 3 days. After 5 days, Taiwanese navy, including subs, should blockade Luzon island until Philippine government apologize and promise to stay 5 miles away from Taiwanese fishing ships.



Guilty much? Perhaps, the Taiwanese are renegades. So the actions of their fishermen just reflects who they are. They are all the same feathers as their Mainland Chinese fellas.


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## Soryu

funny thread by funny clown ... indeed 

Many chinese just crying all time in here: "PRC will do this..", "ROC will do this...","Chinese should do this...", "Philippine should do this...", "we will punish you...", "We chinese will bla bla ..." 

Seem like Mighty China was injured, at least with somebody, so they feel so angry when this time, they weren't aggression side and has loss. 
LOL, Chinese think they were very strong now and could do anything that they want ... 
LOL, feel sorry for old fishingmen and chinese angry-men ...

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## Martian2

*In 72 hours, no more Filipinos will be permitted to work in Taiwan*

Taiwan Threatens to Halt Filipino Hiring Over Fisherman | Bloomberg News

"Taiwan Threatens to Halt Filipino Hiring Over Fisherman&#8217;s Death
By Tim Culpan - May 11, 2013 1:19 PM ET

*Taiwan President Ma Ying-Jeou threatened to recall his representative to the Philippines and freeze labor applications if its neighbor fails to respond within 72 hours to requests for an apology and an investigation into the shooting of a fisherman last week.*

Ma issued &#8220;four solemn requests&#8221; after a Philippines patrol boat shot the fisherman dead on May 9, including compensation, commencement of talks over fishing rights and punishment of the perpetrators, the presidential office said in a statement on its Website last night.

Taiwan fishing vessel Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28 was hit by at least 32 bullets, killing a 65-year-old crew member, 164 nautical miles (304 km) southeast of Taiwan&#8217;s southern tip in waters north of the Philippines. The Philippine Coast Guard will investigate the incident, its commander, Rear Admiral Rodolfo Isorena, said May 10.

Failure to respond within the time line, which commenced May 12, will result in Taiwan protesting by halting applications by Filipino workers, recalling Taiwan&#8217;s representative to the Philippines and sending the Philippines&#8217; representative back to deal with the case, according to the statement."

----------

According to the International Monetary Fund, Taiwan had a GDP per capita of $20,328 last year. In contrast, the Philippines had a tiny GDP per capita of $2,614.

In 72 hours, no more Filipinos will be permitted to work in Taiwan to earn a high standard of living to support their family back in the Philippines.

Reference: List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita

----------





The elderly 65-year-old defenseless Taiwanese fisherman was murdered by Philippine government terrorist thugs around Y. Ami North Island, which is clearly north of the midline between Taiwan and the Philippines.


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## Globenim

In this day and age patrol ships and cost guard in action always have cameras taking footage with them. Especially larger vessels. Sometimes it may just be a mobile phone camera when in need.

If the fisherman had really ever even just come close to them they would have already released the footage in their defence.

Their lies about self defence falls short without any evidence.

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## Martian2

Globenim said:


> In this day and age patrol ships and cost guard in action always have cameras taking footage with them. Especially larger vessels. Sometimes it may just be a mobile phone camera when in need.
> 
> If the fisherman had really ever even just come close to them they would have already released the footage in their defence.
> 
> Their lies about self defence falls short without any evidence.



*The Philippine government is hiding video footage of their murder of Taiwanese fisherman*

The Philippine government is withholding the video footage of their massacre of the unarmed elderly Taiwanese fisherman until they can delete the incriminating scenes.

----------

Video of boat shooting won't be published for time being | Society | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

"Video of boat shooting won't be published for time being
By Emerson Lim and Lilian Wu
2013/05/11 22:51:20





Manila, May 11 (CNA) *A Philippine Coast Guard commanding officer involved in the shooting of a Taiwanese fishing vessel that resulted in the death of a Taiwanese fisherman has brought back the video of the incident, but it will not be published for the time being, a Philippine Coast Guard spokesman said Saturday.*

Armand Balilo said the Coast Guard commading officer arrived at the headquarters of the Coast Guard Friday night, and has brought back the video.

The video can help clarify the circumstances of the incident, but Balilo said the footages will be submitted to the investigators, and will not be published for the time being.

He also said that pending the investigation, the commanding officer will be held at the headquarters of the Coast Guard and will not be interviewed by the media.

Ten others who were also involved in the incident will return to Manila to face investigations.

The Coast Guard and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources have suspended them from their positions pending the investigation.

*The fishing boat, while operating in the overlapping exclusive economic zones between the two countries Thursday, was shot at by personnel aboard the Bureau of Fisheries and Acquatic Resourcces' patrol boat, resulting in the death of Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-cheng.

Philippine law enforcement personnel have said that the Philippine boat was forced to open fire after the Taiwanese fishing boat tried to ram their boat, but the surviving Taiwanese fishermen who were on board have denied the allegation.*

Balilo also said that the Philippine Coast Guard has maintained good relations with its counterpart in Taiwan, and that the Philippines is willing to conduct a joint investigation with Taiwan on the incident.

Balilo said the two countries are now coordinating on the incident, and there is a "possibility" of conducting a joint investigation."

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## Martian2

Skipper rejects Manila claim that shooting was provoked - The China Post

"*Skipper rejects Manila claim that shooting was provoked*
By Joseph Yeh, The China Post
May 12, 2013, 12:02 am TWN

TAIPEI, Taiwan -- *The skipper of the Taiwanese fishing boat that was attacked by Philippine coast guards yesterday denied Manila's claim that his vessel &#8220;provoked&#8221; the shooting.*

The shooting led to the death of a 65-year-old fisherman.

*&#8220;Our boat is a lot smaller than the Philippine vessel. There was no way that we would've rammed our boat into theirs,&#8221; Hung Yu-chih (&#27946;&#32946;&#26234 told reporters.*

Hung said that his boat &#8212; the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28 (&#24291;&#22823;&#33288;28&#34399 &#8212; was being pursued by the Philippine vessel while operating roughly 170 nautical miles off the southern coast of Taiwan.

The pursuit lasted for over an hour, and during that period, countless shots were fired from the Philippine vessel, while the fishing boat was trying to make its way back to Taiwan, Hung said.

*&#8220;We were unarmed but they kept opening fire,&#8221; he said, adding that he and his crew members had nowhere to run and could only hide in the cabin.

The skipper said that his father, Hung Shih-cheng (&#27946;&#30707;&#25104, also one of the crew members, was fatally wounded by gunfire while hiding in the cabin.*

Hung made the statement upon his return to Pingtung County's outlying Siaoliouciou Island (&#23567;&#29705;&#29699 at around 3 a.m. yesterday.

He returned with his boat and the rest of his crew &#8212; his brother-in-law and an Indonesian fisherman. Hung's boat was towed back under the escort of a Coast Guard vessel.

The Philippine vessel responsible for the incident was later identified as belonging to the country's Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR).

According to Taiwanese officials, Philippine coast guards on board the BFAR vessel fired the shots.

The government has demanded an apology and compensation.

Manila insists, however, that the coast guard officials &#8220;reacted appropriately,&#8221; claiming that the Taiwanese vessel had provoked the shooting.

&#8220;The Taiwanese fishing boat attempted to ram our coast guard ship. It was without a doubt a provocative action,&#8221; said Presidential Office spokeswoman Abigail Valte.

Manila will decide whether to apologize after an investigation has been completed, she added.

Fisherman Killed by Heavy Weapons Fire

Meanwhile, investigators in Pingtung conducted an initial investigation after the fishing vessel had returned to port.

The probe showed that Hung Shih-cheng was shot by heavy weapons fire, said Liu Chia-kai (&#21129;&#22025;&#20977, an investigator from Pingtung's prosecutors office. An autopsy showed that Hung was killed by a bullet through the neck.

Investigators counted 52 bullet holes in the boat, highlighting the fact that the vessel came under heavy fire, Liu added.

Investigators later sent Hung Shih-cheng's body to Kaohsiung for an autopsy, given that Siaoliouciou lacked the facilities.

The move angered the dead sailor's family. Hung's daughter cited their religious belief that a corpse should remain intact.

The family ultimately acquiesced after investigators explained to them the importance of an autopsy."

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## p3avi8tor69

Martian2 said:


> *The Philippine government is hiding video footage of their murder of Taiwanese fisherman*
> 
> The Philippine government is withholding the video footage of their massacre of the unarmed elderly Taiwanese fisherman until they can delete the incriminating scenes.




Something very fishy here. If you look at the way Pinoys handle the media, they have a propensity to talk a lot and they have a no holds bar when reporting. For example the fiasco that led to the death of those HK tourist was broadcast live, their newspapers are littered with actual and grisly pictures of dead people. Yet, here the Pinoys are purposely withholding a key piece of evidence which could vindicate their position or otherwise. I find it very interesting they are not parroting this videotape if it exist.

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## faithfulguy

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Something very fishy here. If you look at the way Pinoys handle the media, they have a propensity to talk a lot and they have a no holds bar when reporting. For example the fiasco that led to the death of those HK tourist was broadcast live, their newspapers are littered with actual and grisly pictures of dead people. Yet, here the Pinoys are purposely withholding a key piece of evidence which could vindicate their position or otherwise. I find it very interesting they are not parroting this videotape if it exist.




They just lied and caught. This guys have no shame. Its time to do more than stop the hiring of maids. Its time to send in the ships and do a blockade. No ships would be allowed to enter or leave Luzon unless an official apology is made and the compensation is accepted.

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## Snomannen

I guess, someone was instructed by their suzerain to cause some trouble between Taiwan and the Philippine. Just like what happened to those HK travelers in 2010. These are all about causing conflicts in East/ East South Asia. 

Or someone is simply too stupid and playing too much Call of Duty.

Besides their president seems quite happy after the tragedy happened (look at his lovely smiling face)
And now we have another happy face here, a lovely spokesperson.





Filipino are surely the happiest people in the world, especially when they smell a tragedy.


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## Martian2

*Expert: Against international law for Philippines vessel to shoot on an unarmed boat*

Ma hands out 72-hour ultimatum to Manila - The China Post

"Ma hands out 72-hour ultimatum to Manila
By Joseph Yeh and Adam Tyrsett Kuo ,The China Post
May 12, 2013, 12:02 am TWN

TAIPEI, Taiwan -- The president has given the Philippines 72 hours to respond to demands regarding the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman or face the consequences, Presidential Office spokeswoman Garfie Li said yesterday.

The retaliation would include a freeze on all applications of Philippine laborers, the recalling of Taiwan's envoy in Manila and the expulsion of the Philippine envoy in Taipei, Li said.

President Ma Ying-jeou yesterday called a national security meeting over the recent shooting of a Taiwan fishing boat by the Philippine coast guard.

The meeting, attended by Foreign Minister David Lin, Defense Minister Kao Hua-chu and other officials, signified an official upgrade of the case.

*Chen Li-tung, a professor at National Taiwan Ocean University's Institute of the Law of the Sea, said that under international law it was illegal for the Philippines vessel to shoot on an unarmed boat.

Meanwhile, Hu Nien-tsu, director of National Sun Yat-sen University's Center for Marine Policy Studies, said according to a 1982 U.N. convention, the Philippines must accept the traditional right of fishermen from neighboring countries to fish &#8220;in certain areas falling within archipelagic waters.&#8221;*

&#8220;The Philippines must apologize, find and prosecute those responsible for the brutal killing, and offer compensation for the fisherman's death,&#8221; Ma said earlier yesterday.

If the Philippines fails to do this and does not provide assurance that similar incidents will not happen again, Taiwan will consider imposing sanctions against the country, Ma said. A former high-ranking security official reportedly said that sanctions against the Philippines would not have a great effect.

The president should set up a task force and bring the Philippine suspects to Taiwan for trial on murder charges, the official said, adding that in the event of an arrest at sea, if the suspects resist, the Taiwanese Navy and Coast Guard should open fire and shoot to kill."

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## Martian2

*Major Philippine newspaper admits killing unarmed Taiwanese fisherman in DISPUTED waters*

Palace hopes shooting incident in disputed waters won&rsquo;t hurt PHL-Taiwan ties | News | GMA News Online

"Palace hopes shooting incident in disputed waters won&#8217;t hurt PHL-Taiwan ties
May 11, 2013 2:10pm
...
Malacañang on Saturday expressed hopes that the shooting incident in *disputed waters* that killed a Taiwanese fisherman last Thursday will not hurt Philippine-Taiwan ties. (article continues)"

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## jhungary

cnleio said:


> More details of MCS 3001 patrol boart, what's the weapon, M2 machinegun? ths.



It's not the Ma Deuce, M2 is 50 Cal, the boat armed with a 30 cal machine gun, it's either a 7.62 GPMG or M60. 

They also said they have a M14 and a M16 on board



faithfulguy said:


> Did I spell Philippinos wrong or the word maid wrong? Your gov need to apologize and compensate. Otherwise, Taiwan will definitely do something. As the current Ma regime is weak, he might go after your maids and street girls.



actually you did spell Filipino wrong, Philippinos does not exist as a word....

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## Martian2

*BBC News reports that unarmed Taiwanese fisherman was killed in DISPUTED waters*

BBC News - Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot

"Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot
10 May 2013 Last updated at 01:59 ET

*Taiwan has demanded an explanation and apology from the Philippines after a fisherman was shot and killed in disputed waters.* (article continues)"

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## WuMaoCleverbot

Martian2 said:


> *The elderly 65-year-old defenseless Taiwanese fisherman was murdered by Philippine government terrorist thugs around Y. Ami North Island, which is clearly north of the midline between Taiwan and the Philippines*.




*Yami Island or Mavudis Island is Philippine's northernmost island. * 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mavudis

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## Martian2

*Taiwanese fisherman (170 miles south of Taiwan) was killed within Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ*

BBC News - Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot

"Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot
10 May 2013 Last updated at 01:59 ET

Taiwan has demanded an explanation and apology from the Philippines after a fisherman was shot and killed in disputed waters.

The Philippine coastguard acknowledged that it had fired at the boat to "disable" its machinery.

"If somebody died, they deserve our sympathy but not an apology," AFP quoted a spokesman as saying.

*The incident occurred early on Thursday 170 miles (315 km) south of Taiwan, killing 65-year-old Hung Shih-cheng.

Taiwan's coast guard sent vessels to the area - in waters both sides say lie within their 200-nautical-mile from shore exclusive economic zone* - to aid the fishing crew.

Taiwan's Foreign Minister David Lin urged the Philippine government to "open a full investigation" into the shooting, which he condemned "strongly".

Philippine coastguard spokesman Commander Armand Balilo said that the incident occurred within Philippine territory and that the officers had a duty to stop illegal fishing.

Taiwanese fishermen have been arrested in the area and detained by the Philippine authorities in the past, but there have not been incidents of shootings before, the BBC's Cindy Sui reports from Taipei.

Competing territorial claims in the South China Sea have raised regional tensions in recent months. China, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and Brunei all have overlapping claims.

These disputes have existed for years but in recent months China has been taking a more assertive stance, leading to tensions with neighbours.

Last year, the Philippines and China became embroiled in a lengthy stand-off at the Scarborough shoal, which both claim. The stand-off ended after several weeks but ties between the two sides chilled significantly over the incident.

A Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman also condemned the shooting and called for an investigation, a Xinhua news agency report said."

----------

Off-topic:

At WuMao, Wikipedia is not an acceptable citation. Anyone can change its contents at any time.

Until UNCLOS hands down a ruling stating otherwise, Taiwan is entitled to claim a 200-mile EEZ (ie. exclusive economic zone).

The fact remains the Taiwanese fisherman, killed by Philippine government thugs, was only 170 miles south of Taiwan and well within Taiwan's EEZ.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

Martian2 said:


> *Taiwanese fisherman (170 miles south of Taiwan) was killed within Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ*
> 
> BBC News - Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot
> 
> "Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot
> 10 May 2013 Last updated at 01:59 ET
> 
> Taiwan has demanded an explanation and apology from the Philippines after a fisherman was shot and killed in disputed waters.
> 
> The Philippine coastguard acknowledged that it had fired at the boat to "disable" its machinery.
> 
> "If somebody died, they deserve our sympathy but not an apology," AFP quoted a spokesman as saying.
> 
> *The incident occurred early on Thursday 170 miles (315 km) south of Taiwan, killing 65-year-old Hung Shih-cheng.
> 
> Taiwan's coast guard sent vessels to the area - in waters both sides say lie within their 200-nautical-mile from shore exclusive economic zone* - to aid the fishing crew.
> 
> Taiwan's Foreign Minister David Lin urged the Philippine government to "open a full investigation" into the shooting, which he condemned "strongly".
> 
> Philippine coastguard spokesman Commander Armand Balilo said that the incident occurred within Philippine territory and that the officers had a duty to stop illegal fishing.
> 
> Taiwanese fishermen have been arrested in the area and detained by the Philippine authorities in the past, but there have not been incidents of shootings before, the BBC's Cindy Sui reports from Taipei.
> 
> Competing territorial claims in the South China Sea have raised regional tensions in recent months. China, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and Brunei all have overlapping claims.
> 
> These disputes have existed for years but in recent months China has been taking a more assertive stance, leading to tensions with neighbours.
> 
> Last year, the Philippines and China became embroiled in a lengthy stand-off at the Scarborough shoal, which both claim. The stand-off ended after several weeks but ties between the two sides chilled significantly over the incident.
> 
> A Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman also condemned the shooting and called for an investigation, a Xinhua news agency report said."
> 
> ----------
> 
> Off-topic:
> 
> At WuMao, Wikipedia is not an acceptable citation. Anyone can change its contents at any time.
> 
> Until UNCLOS hands down a ruling stating otherwise, Taiwan is entitled to claim a 200-mile EEZ (ie. exclusive economic zone).
> 
> The fact remains the Taiwanese fisherman, killed by Philippine government thugs, was only 170 miles south of Taiwan and well within Taiwan's EEZ.



*EEZ of Taiwan*






Marine Regions



*EEZ of the Philippines*






http://www.seaaroundus.org/eez/608.aspx

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## Martian2

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *EEZ of Taiwan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marine Regions



*Merely a PROPOSED standard*

Did you bother reading your own citation? It said "*proposed* standard."

A proposal is a mere suggestion. There are many different proposals by many different parties. They have no legal effect.

I want you to show me a legally binding document signed by Taiwan where it agreed to curtail the 200-mile EEZ granted under UNCLOS. If you can't, you Philippine scumbags have intruded into Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ to kill an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.

Alternatively, I am willing to accept a final UNCLOS ruling that specifies Taiwan's EEZ. If you can't produce an EEZ determined by an UNCLOS tribunal then Taiwan will continue to claim the 200-mile EEZ under UNCLOS.

You Philippine thugs killed an unarmed Taiwanese within Taiwan's own EEZ!

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## p3avi8tor69

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *EEZ of Taiwan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marine Regions
> 
> 
> *EEZ of the Philippines*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EEZ Waters Of Philippines



How can you make that assertion when your own freaking White House is saying its disputed waters. Are you people so freaking incompetent that your own executive department does not know your own territory. ROFLMAO

Why can't you fools shut your mouths for a change.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

p3avi8tor69 said:


> How can you make that assertion when your own freaking White House is saying its disputed waters. Are you people so freaking incompetent that your own executive department does not know your own territory. ROFLMAO
> 
> Why can't you fools shut your mouths for a change.



The BLUE colored one is our *UNDISPUTED EEZ*, the GREEN one is the disputed area.

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## Martian2

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> The BLUE colored one is our *UNDISPUTED EEZ*, the GREEN one is the disputed area.



*Taiwan is entitled to 200-mile EEZ unless there is a binding legal agreement or ruling*

You have no reputable citation (e.g. Taiwan-Philippine sea border agreement or finalized UNCLOS ruling) to back your claim.

Taiwan is entitled to a 200-mile EEZ under UNCLOS. The unarmed Taiwanese fisherman was killed by Philippine government thugs 170 miles south of Taiwan (according to BBC News), which is within Taiwan's EEZ.

Your Philippine government thugs invaded Taiwan's EEZ and killed an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman. You Philippine scum.

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## JSCh

Every time when I read Philippine talking about international law and US talking up freedom of navigation in SCS, I feel kind of funny. 

Has anyone bother to check the meaning of Philippine claim of archipelagic waters to UNCLOS?

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## longyi

The Taiwan fishing boat Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28 (&#24291;&#22823;&#33288;28&#34399 supposedly rammed the PCG boat:



















No marks on the bow that shows any ramming actions. Not much signs of the 52 bullet holes either so the holes must be on the stern of the boat which means it was running away when she was shot. Clearly the PCG didn't shoot out of self defense but rather cold blooded murder by shooting from behind.


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## Bob Ong

*BLUE* color is UNDISPUTED EEZ
*GREEN* color is the DISPUTED area.


*TAIWAN EEZ*







*PHILIPPINE EEZ*







Two lessons for the stupid Taiwanese: 

1) Keep off Philippine territory 
2) Don&#8217;t use your vessel to ram a Philippine coast guard or any other Philippine civilian boats.

Taiwan must be responsible with their actions to prevent things happening like this.

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## longyi

Bob Ong said:


> [COLOR="
> 
> 
> 
> Two lessons for the stupid Taiwanese:
> 
> 1) Keep off Philippine territory
> 2) Don&#8217;t use your vessel to ram a Philippine coast guard or any other Philippine civilian boats.
> 
> Taiwan must be responsible with their actions to prevent things happening like this.




LOL you must be kidding me, ramming a coastguard cutter with a plastic boat? How come I never thought of that?

BTW there's clearly no ramming marks on the bow of the said fishing boat.


----------



## Bob Ong

longyi said:


> LOL you must be kidding me, ramming a coastguard cutter with a plastic boat? How come I never thought of that?
> 
> BTW there's clearly no ramming marks on the bow of the said fishing boat.


Ok then let's wait for investigation to come out. Actually the Philippine coast guard was guarding the Philippine waters when they spotted this Taiwanese fishing boat. We should instead be demanding an explanation from Taiwan or why their ships were in the Balintang channel which is north of Babuyan and South of Batanes?


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## Soryu

Martian2 said:


> *BBC News reports that unarmed Taiwanese fisherman was killed in DISPUTED waters*
> 
> BBC News - Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot
> 
> "Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot
> 10 May 2013 Last updated at 01:59 ET
> 
> *Taiwan has demanded an explanation and apology from the Philippines after a fisherman was shot and killed in disputed waters.* (article continues)"



Now, It's not Western's propaganda anymore, huh!? Chinese ... hehe

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## p3avi8tor69

longyi said:


> LOL you must be kidding me, ramming a coastguard cutter with a plastic boat? How come I never thought of that?
> 
> BTW there's clearly no ramming marks on the bow of the said fishing boat.



Yes there seems to be no marks visible from the bow. But ramming is not always bow inflicted. But in this case and from the looks of it, the Philippine version is starting to look iffy.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Soryu said:


> Now, It's not Western's propaganda anymore, huh!? Chinese ... hehe



BBC is always one of the biggest western propaganda machine, especially when something happens with China.

But this is between Taiwan and Philippines, if they are making everything too biased against Taiwan, they may ultimately push Taiwan towards China.

Pinoy is simply retarded, they have caused more troubles than helps to their master's Pivot to Asia.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Death on the High Seas: US refuses to condemn shooting of fisherman*
Sun, May 12, 2013
By William Lowther / Staff reporter in WASHINGTON

The US has refused to condemn the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine Coast Guard.
Asked directly during the US Department of State&#8217;s daily press briefing if the US condemned &#8220;this brutal attack,&#8221; acting deputy spokesman Patrick Ventrell would not.

&#8220;The United States is aware of the incident between a Philippine law enforcement vessel and one or more Taiwan fishing boats that resulted in the death of one Taiwan fisherman,&#8221; he said. &#8220;We welcome the Philippine government&#8217;s pledge to conduct a full and transparent investigation into the incident and to work with the Taiwan authorities to establish what transpired.&#8221;

He said that Washington urged all parties to ensure maritime safety and to refrain from actions that could escalate tensions in the region and undermine the prospects for a diplomatic or other peaceful resolution of differences.

A journalist then pressed Ventrell, asking: &#8220;So, you&#8217;re not condemning the Filipino government for this attack?&#8221;
Ventrell replied: &#8220;Well, we said that they&#8217;re going to conduct an investigation, and what we want is a full and transparent investigation into the specifics of the incident.&#8221;

The acting deputy spokesman was asked if the Philippines should apologize.
&#8220;Well, again, let&#8217;s see what the investigation says before we make a further judgement,&#8221; Ventrell said.

Asked if the incident had occurred in Philippine waters or in disputed waters, Ventrell said that he was &#8220;not aware&#8221; where the incident actually occurred.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t know if we have a definitive understanding &#8212; this is, again, one of the things we hope that the investigation can clarify,&#8221; he said.

Ventrell said that he was &#8220;not aware&#8221; that either Taiwan or the Philippines had been in contact with the US about the shooting.
&#8220;We maintain contact with both parties,&#8221; he said

Death on the High Seas: US refuses to condemn shooting of fisherman - Taipei Times



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqq5Rw1lViQ

Published on May 10, 2013

U.S. Department of State Deputy Spokesperson Patrick Ventrell leads the Daily Press Briefing at the U.S. Department of State in Washington, D.C. on May 10, 2013. [Go to http://video.state.gov for more video and text transcript.]

Fast forward to 16:04

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## zxmint

Kolaps said:


> I don't think that is going to happen.
> 
> Actually, we are in the lost side if Taiwan and Luzon became one country.
> 
> There are reason why, we, Han Chinese reject expansionism policy and xenophobic.


Agree with you. Nowadays lands and population are not that important to a country, but a heavy burden sometimes. Specially, is there any rare sources in Luzon? If Taiwan really wanna take charge of Luzon, it is absolutely necessary to expel all Filipinos which is unfeasible.


----------



## zxmint

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Death on the High Seas: US refuses to condemn shooting of fisherman*
> Sun, May 12, 2013
> By William Lowther / Staff reporter in WASHINGTON
> 
> The US has refused to condemn the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine Coast Guard.
> Asked directly during the US Department of State&#8217;s daily press briefing if the US condemned &#8220;this brutal attack,&#8221; acting deputy spokesman Patrick Ventrell would not.
> 
> &#8220;The United States is aware of the incident between a Philippine law enforcement vessel and one or more Taiwan fishing boats that resulted in the death of one Taiwan fisherman,&#8221; he said. &#8220;We welcome the Philippine government&#8217;s pledge to conduct a full and transparent investigation into the incident and to work with the Taiwan authorities to establish what transpired.&#8221;
> 
> He said that Washington urged all parties to ensure maritime safety and to refrain from actions that could escalate tensions in the region and undermine the prospects for a diplomatic or other peaceful resolution of differences.
> 
> A journalist then pressed Ventrell, asking: &#8220;So, you&#8217;re not condemning the Filipino government for this attack?&#8221;
> Ventrell replied: &#8220;Well, we said that they&#8217;re going to conduct an investigation, and what we want is a full and transparent investigation into the specifics of the incident.&#8221;
> 
> The acting deputy spokesman was asked if the Philippines should apologize.
> &#8220;Well, again, let&#8217;s see what the investigation says before we make a further judgement,&#8221; Ventrell said.
> 
> Asked if the incident had occurred in Philippine waters or in disputed waters, Ventrell said that he was &#8220;not aware&#8221; where the incident actually occurred.
> 
> &#8220;I don&#8217;t know if we have a definitive understanding &#8212; this is, again, one of the things we hope that the investigation can clarify,&#8221; he said.
> 
> Ventrell said that he was &#8220;not aware&#8221; that either Taiwan or the Philippines had been in contact with the US about the shooting.
> &#8220;We maintain contact with both parties,&#8221; he said
> 
> Death on the High Seas: US refuses to condemn shooting of fisherman - Taipei Times
> 
> 
> 
> Daily Press Briefing: May 10, 2013 - YouTube
> 
> Published on May 10, 2013
> 
> U.S. Department of State Deputy Spokesperson Patrick Ventrell leads the Daily Press Briefing at the U.S. Department of State in Washington, D.C. on May 10, 2013. [Go to U.S. Department of State for more video and text transcript.]
> 
> Fast forward to 16:04



LOL. You know why? Your American dad are making use of you puppy and hope you die as early as possible. They incite you to bark and bite without solid support like advanced weapons. What does it mean then? Never see more stupid people than Filipinos who are so pleased to be cannon fodder.



Soryu said:


> Now, It's not Western's propaganda anymore, huh!? Chinese ... hehe



Really looking forward to seeing what would happen when Filipinos kill Viets fishermen. Monkey fighting? Must be interesting!


----------



## USAHawk785

The Philippines will conduct a transparent investigation into the events that transpired, and thus, we see no need to condemn our Philippine allies. They have always followed the legalistic method in their foreign policy. And we admire them for their continuity in these matters.


----------



## Martian2

*Come out you Philippine cowards. The Taiwan Navy is waiting for you. They shoot back.*

----------

Taiwan beefs up patrols in waters near Philippines - Channel NewsAsia

"*Taiwan beefs up patrols in waters near Philippines*
12 May 2013 2:11 PM
*
Taiwan Sunday dispatched four coastguard and naval vessels to beef up patrols in waters near the Philippines following public outrage over the shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman by Filipino coastguards.*





Taiwan policemen inspect bullet holes on the damaged "Guang Ta Hsin 28" fishing boat (C) at Liuqiu harbour, southern Pingtung county on 11 May. (AFP PHOTO)

TAIPEI: Taiwan Sunday dispatched four coastguard and naval vessels to beef up patrols in waters near the Philippines following public outrage over the shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman by Filipino coastguards.

"The government is determined to protect our fishermen," cabinet spokeswoman Cheng Li-wen said in a statement as a Lafayette-class naval frigate and coastguard vessels set sail for the area where the 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman was killed Thursday.

The move came shortly after authorities issued a strongly-worded statement late Saturday night demanding Manila apologise to Taiwan and compensate the family of the dead man.

In its statement, Taiwan also asked the Philippine authorities to bring to justice the coastguards responsible and start negotiating with Taipei on a proposed fishery agreement.

"If the Filipino government fails to respond in a positive manner within 72 hours, the hiring of Philippine workers will be frozen," presidential office spokeswoman Lee Chia-fei warned.

Hung Shih-cheng, the skipper of the 15-tonne "Kuang Ta Hsin No 28", was killed during the incident, which also left the boat riddled with more than 50 bullet holes.

"This is nothing but a slaughter," prosecutor Liu Chia-kai told reporters after examining the ship.

In Manila, Abigail Valte, a spokeswoman for Philippine President Benigno Aquino, told a government radio station Saturday that authorities had launched a "transparent and impartial investigation" into the incident.

She expressed hopes that economic ties with Taipei would not be affected and added that the coastguard crew involved in the incident had been temporarily suspended to ensure a fair probe.

Taiwan's government has come under pressure from the opposition and the media to take action, with the Philippines refusing to apologise and saying the coastguard was tackling illegal fishing.

Philippine coastguard spokesman Commander Armand Balilo said Friday the incident took place in Philippine waters and the crew had been carrying out their duties to stop illegal fishing.

"If somebody died, they deserve our sympathy but not an apology," Balilo told reporters.

The victim's son, who was with his father and two other sailors on the boat when the shooting took place, has insisted they did not cross into Philippine waters.

- AFP/xq"


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Hey Martin, with a girly man like Ma Ying-Jeou, you can simply forget about revenge.

He wanna sign another treaty with Pinoy just like he did with Nippon in Diaoyu Island.



> _The leader of the Taiwan, Ma Ying-jeou held a high-level meeting on the evening of 11, a request for apology, compensation and punishing the murderer was made to the Philippines, these actions should be responded by the Philippine side within 72 hours, or the use of any sanctions will not be excluded.
> 
> Later that night in Taipei, Ma Ying-jeou&#8217;s spokesman Li Jia Fei held a press conference and said that the Taiwan authority had four solemnly demands:
> 
> first formal apology;
> 
> second, compensation for the loss, as soon as possible;
> 
> third, thoroughly investigate the facts and punish the criminals;
> 
> *fourth, start the Taiwan-Philippine fisheries agreement negotiation as soon as possible.*_
> 
> http://www.chinaabout.net/ma-ying-jeou-sent-a-72-hours-ultimatum-to-philippines/



Pinoy has encroached many islands from Taiwan in the past decades, now this guy wanna another treaty on paper, WTF?!


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

Martian2 said:


> *Come out you Philippine cowards. The Taiwan Navy is waiting for you. They shoot back.*
> 
> ----------
> 
> Taiwan beefs up patrols in waters near Philippines - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> "*Taiwan beefs up patrols in waters near Philippines*
> 12 May 2013 2:11 PM
> *
> Taiwan Sunday dispatched four coastguard and naval vessels to beef up patrols in waters near the Philippines following public outrage over the shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman by Filipino coastguards.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taiwan policemen inspect bullet holes on the damaged "Guang Ta Hsin 28" fishing boat (C) at Liuqiu harbour, southern Pingtung county on 11 May. (AFP PHOTO)
> 
> TAIPEI: Taiwan Sunday dispatched four coastguard and naval vessels to beef up patrols in waters near the Philippines following public outrage over the shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman by Filipino coastguards.
> 
> "The government is determined to protect our fishermen," cabinet spokeswoman Cheng Li-wen said in a statement as a Lafayette-class naval frigate and coastguard vessels set sail for the area where the 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman was killed Thursday.
> 
> The move came shortly after authorities issued a strongly-worded statement late Saturday night demanding Manila apologise to Taiwan and compensate the family of the dead man.
> 
> In its statement, Taiwan also asked the Philippine authorities to bring to justice the coastguards responsible and *start negotiating with Taipei on a proposed fishery agreement.*
> 
> "If the Filipino government fails to respond in a positive manner within 72 hours, the hiring of Philippine workers will be frozen," presidential office spokeswoman Lee Chia-fei warned.
> 
> Hung Shih-cheng, the skipper of the 15-tonne "Kuang Ta Hsin No 28", was killed during the incident, which also left the boat riddled with more than 50 bullet holes.
> 
> "This is nothing but a slaughter," prosecutor Liu Chia-kai told reporters after examining the ship.
> 
> In Manila, Abigail Valte, a spokeswoman for Philippine President Benigno Aquino, told a government radio station Saturday that authorities had launched a "transparent and impartial investigation" into the incident.
> 
> She expressed hopes that economic ties with Taipei would not be affected and added that the coastguard crew involved in the incident had been temporarily suspended to ensure a fair probe.
> 
> Taiwan's government has come under pressure from the opposition and the media to take action, with the Philippines refusing to apologise and saying the coastguard was tackling illegal fishing.
> 
> Philippine coastguard spokesman Commander Armand Balilo said Friday the incident took place in Philippine waters and the crew had been carrying out their duties to stop illegal fishing.
> 
> "If somebody died, they deserve our sympathy but not an apology," Balilo told reporters.
> 
> The victim's son, who was with his father and two other sailors on the boat when the shooting took place, has insisted they did not cross into Philippine waters.
> 
> - AFP/xq"



This is another classic example of Chinese thinking "what is mine is mine, what is yours is mine." They want to fish in our UNDISPUTED EEZ and territorial seas. Thieving and greedy Chinese.

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## Martian2

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> This is another classic example of Chinese thinking "what is mine is mine, what is yours is mine." They want to fish in our UNDISPUTED EEZ and territorial seas. Thieving and greedy Chinese.



*Philippine government thugs intruded 30 miles into Taiwan's EEZ*

Come, you gutless Filipinos. You enthusiastically slaughtered a defenseless 65-year-old man within Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ.

This is your opportunity to seize Taiwan's EEZ by force. You want to take thirty miles of Taiwan's EEZ? Show yourself.

Don't cower in the face of Taiwan's Navy. You gutless Philippine scum.


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## Speeder 2

Taiwan's Navy and Airforce should challenge Ph in the high sea after 72 hours.

Meanwhile, Taiwan can give Sukhoi a symbolic ring to ask for its soft offers on Su-30 and Mig-29.


The US dare not interviene under this context for the fear of the consecuences and China's potential move, even if Taiwan's navy parking right in front of the bay of Manila with maingun pointing at its presidential compound.

All-in-all morally, strategically, economically, militarily and politically, Taiwan is a FAR more important piece in East Asia and the world than Ph, for China, for the US, and for the rest. Therefore Taiwan can act tough and basically is *untouchable* at this point if it plays its cards well.

btw, I hope Ph acts tough and TW acts like a puss for the coming days, because this will give a perfect cover to China to deal with Ph. Barking as usual, the US, will not, and can not afford to, confront China for the sake of Ph.

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## Juice

Martian2 said:


> *Taiwanese fisherman (170 miles south of Taiwan) was killed within Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ*
> 
> BBC News - Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot
> 
> "Taiwan protests to Philippines after fisherman shot
> 10 May 2013 Last updated at 01:59 ET
> 
> Taiwan has demanded an explanation and apology from the Philippines after a fisherman was shot and killed in disputed waters.
> 
> The Philippine coastguard acknowledged that it had fired at the boat to "disable" its machinery.
> 
> "If somebody died, they deserve our sympathy but not an apology," AFP quoted a spokesman as saying.
> 
> *The incident occurred early on Thursday 170 miles (315 km) south of Taiwan, killing 65-year-old Hung Shih-cheng.
> 
> Taiwan's coast guard sent vessels to the area - in waters both sides say lie within their 200-nautical-mile from shore exclusive economic zone* - to aid the fishing crew.
> 
> Taiwan's Foreign Minister David Lin urged the Philippine government to "open a full investigation" into the shooting, which he condemned "strongly".
> 
> Philippine coastguard spokesman Commander Armand Balilo said that the incident occurred within Philippine territory and that the officers had a duty to stop illegal fishing.
> 
> Taiwanese fishermen have been arrested in the area and detained by the Philippine authorities in the past, but there have not been incidents of shootings before, the BBC's Cindy Sui reports from Taipei.
> 
> Competing territorial claims in the South China Sea have raised regional tensions in recent months. China, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and Brunei all have overlapping claims.
> 
> These disputes have existed for years but in recent months China has been taking a more assertive stance, leading to tensions with neighbours.
> 
> Last year, the Philippines and China became embroiled in a lengthy stand-off at the Scarborough shoal, which both claim. The stand-off ended after several weeks but ties between the two sides chilled significantly over the incident.
> 
> A Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman also condemned the shooting and called for an investigation, a Xinhua news agency report said."
> 
> ----------
> 
> Off-topic:
> 
> At WuMao, Wikipedia is not an acceptable citation. Anyone can change its contents at any time.
> 
> Until UNCLOS hands down a ruling stating otherwise, Taiwan is entitled to claim a 200-mile EEZ (ie. exclusive economic zone).
> 
> The fact remains the Taiwanese fisherman, killed by Philippine government thugs, was only 170 miles south of Taiwan and well within Taiwan's EEZ.


 Any one CAN"T change it at any time genius.....tell you what, change the wiki article on Ghandi to say he was an 8 year old black girl. Tell me when you have and I'll go look at it.

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## Viet

Martian2 and other Chinese posters, you all can tone down the bottomless hatred against the Philippines a bit.

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## Viet

I think Taiwan and China shouldn´t take this tragically fatal shooting as an excuse to damage the Philippines economy. Wait for the outcome of investigation.


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## Viet

...and to be fair, for Philippine posters here, the shooting at fishermen was not wise.


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## longyi

Viet said:


> ...and to be fair, for Philippine posters here, the shooting at fishermen was not wise.





"Wise" is hardly a word for it. A huge coastguard cutter chased and shot at a small fiberglass boat for an hour was outright murder on the high sea.

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## Zero_wing

Well its unfortunate but still he was in the wrong place at the wrong time its not like want to kill (chinese are trying to demonized my country and its people to service their Imperial Ambitions) our Sympathies but no apologies he and his co lieges were poaching on Philippine water in a Philippine Province no less its the ultimate insult to us Filipinos and to make things worse they try to ram a small Philippine Coast Guard ship if those people were killed it would even more bad because many people would get hurt or killed and beside ramming is a chinese art they did this before last 2012 in fact so again our sympathies but no apologies you try to commit a crime got caught made it worse by ramming our ship and that is a end result unarmed or not a hostile action is still a hostile action.



longyi said:


> "Wise" is hardly a word for it. A huge coastguard cutter chased and shot at a small fiberglass boat for an hour was outright murder on the high sea.



No it was small coast guard boat we have no cutters the only thing we have is that would say to be a ship is S and R ships but we only have 8 of them and non of them were deploy in batanes Province so sir your wrong that boat was bigger than PCG and if you ram it it will sink the only thing that coast guard have is its machine gun but that's it.

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## Zero_wing

Viet said:


> I think Taiwan and China shouldn´t take this tragically fatal shooting as an excuse to damage the Philippines economy. Wait for the outcome of investigation.



I don't think so we have a lot of markets so its not going to hurt and the OFW can find other work contrary to the demonetization of the Imeprial chinese majority of them are professionals so a lot of work opportunity so am not worried but am worried about racist discrimination but that would service as other crime committed by the chinese imperials


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## longyi

Zero_wing said:


> No it was small coast guard boat we have no cutters the only thing we have is that would say to be a ship is S and R ships but we only have 8 of them and non of them were deploy in batanes Province so sir your wrong that boat was bigger than PCG and if you ram it it will sink the only thing that coast guard have is its machine gun but that's it.




I'm sure the coastguard cutter is at least twice the size of this puny fishing boat






and is made out of heavy metal. A plastic boat like this cannot ram anybody and clearly it has no marks of any ramming. There are no bullet holes in the bow so the holes were in the stern are and it must have been running away when it was shot at. Of course we wouldn't call it outright murder until all the investigations are done but the picture does points that way.


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## JSCh

BFAR--boats of the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources
MCS-3001







*Suspected murder weapon*


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## Zero_wing

See small? sir think about it a ship in ramming speed can sink this boat


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## Viet

Zero_wing said:


> I don't think so we have a lot of markets so its not going to hurt and the OFW can find other work contrary to the demonetization of the Imeprial chinese majority of them are professionals so a lot of work opportunity so am not worried but am worried about racist discrimination but that would service as other crime committed by the chinese imperials


There are other means to expell foreign fishering boats such as water canon. Again, using fire arms is not appropriate and wrong. That is a general question the Philippine coast guard should answer.


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## Zero_wing

Viet said:


> There are other means to expell foreign fishering boats such as water canon. Again, using fire arms is not appropriate and wrong. That is a general question the Philippine coast guard should answer.



Sir one its small civil turn BFAR (our Aquatic Resources management agency) Maned by the PCG notice the machine gun for protection of our seas they shot the engine the guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time so its not intentional i agree with you but we simply not have that but the ships the Japanese allow us to loan have things like that but we make no apologies we sympathies with their lose it is a human life but remember they try to ram a small civilian turn PCG ship for BFAR you people saw the picture of the ship didn't you? so again ram our ship you get shot simple.


----------



## shuttler

*Taiwan hands out 72-hour ultimatum to Manila*

http://www.asianewsnet.net
Publication Date : 12-05-2013

Respond to demands or face consequences, Ma warns

Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou has given the Philippines 72 hours to respond to demands regarding the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman or face the consequences, Presidential Office spokesperson Garfie Li said yesterday.

The retaliation would include a freeze on all applications of Philippine labourers, the recalling of Taiwan's envoy in Manila and the expulsion of the Philippine envoy in Taipei, Li said.

The president yesterday called a national security meeting over the recent shooting of a Taiwan fishing boat by the Philippine coast guard.

The meeting, attended by Foreign Minister David Lin, Defence Minister Kao Hua-chu and other officials, signified an official upgrade of the case.

Chen Li-tung, a professor at National Taiwan Ocean University's Insitute of the Law of the Sea, said that under international law it was illegal for the Philippines vessel to shoot on an unarmed boat.

Meanwhile, Hu Nien-tsu, director of National Sun Yat-sen University's centre for Marine Policy Studies, said according to a 1982 U.N. convention, the Philippines must accept the traditional right of fishermen from neighbouring countries to fish in certain areas falling within archipelagic waters.

The Philippines must apologise, find and prosecute those responsible for the brutal killing, and offer compensation for the fisherman's death, Ma said earlier yesterday.

If the Philippines fails to do this and does not provide assurance that similar incidents will not happen again, Taiwan will consider imposing sanctions against the country, Ma said. A former high-ranking security official reportedly said that sanctions against the Philippines would not have a great effect.

The president should set up a task force and bring the Philippine suspects to Taiwan for trial on murder charges, the official said, adding that in the event of an arrest at sea, if the suspects resist, the Taiwanese Navy and Coast Guard should open fire and shoot to kill.

On Thursday, a Philippine government vessel opened fire on a Taiwanese boat that was fishing in disputed waters south of Taiwan.

In the ensuing gunfire, Hung Shih-cheng, a fisherman aboard the Taiwanese vessel, died from a bullet wound to the neck, investigators said.

Such excessive use of force is unacceptable in any country, Ma said, adding that the act of opening fire on an unarmed boat was inhuman, brutal and cold-blooded.

Meanwhile, footage of the event was brought back by a Philippines coast guard officer involved in the incident. The video, which will be given to investigators, will not be released for the time being.

Though the Philippines' top envoy to Taiwan has apologised to the family of the dead fisherman, its government has refused to apologise for the shooting, Ma said.

It is absolutely unacceptable for the Philippines to illegally kill someone and then refuse to apologise, the president said.

Ma noted that the tragedy once again highlights the issue of safety for Taiwanese fishing vessels operating on the high seas.

Taiwan's Coast Guard must beef up its operations in the South China Sea, he added.

The Philippines' top envoy to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, yesterday visited Hung's family on outlying Siaoliouciou Island to offer his condolences and apology. Basilio was accompanied by Taiwan's foreign minister.

Basilio reiterated that his government welcomes a joint investigation led by law enforcement authorities from both countries to establish the location of the incident and the circumstances that led to the tragedy.

Should the investigation show that there was a violation of international law and practice...as well as our domestic law, we will let the law take its course so that justice will be served, Basilio said.

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## shuttler

Viet said:


> I think Taiwan and China shouldn´t take this tragically fatal shooting as an excuse to damage the Philippines economy. Wait for the outcome of investigation.



Then blame the pinoy government to all the wrong doings!


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> ...and to be fair, for Philippine posters here, the shooting at fishermen was not wise.


It's inevitable when China keep bullying its neighbours.Chinese shoot and killed unarmed VNese fishermen in 2005, too .

Btw:S.K also killed Chinese fishermen.



shuttler said:


> Then blame the pinoy government to all the wrong doings!


They just learn the way you did to our fishermen in 2005,Phil only forgot to say that TWese boat was pirate boat. Look at the mirror and blame urself first.


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## shuttler

NiceGuy said:


> It's inevitable when China keep bullying neighbours.Chinese shoot and killed unarmed VNese fishermen, too .



that was no more than firing warning flares for the illegal vietcong fishermen if you related that to our recent conflict




> They just learn the way you did to our fishermen in 2005,Phil inly gorgot to say that TWese boat was pirate boat. Look at the mirror and blame urself first.



old news and the answers to vietcongs' bullying and murdering our fishermen in our territory


----------



## NiceGuy

shuttler said:


> that was no more than firing warning flares for the illegal vietcong fishermen if you related that to our recent conflict
> 
> old news and the answers to vietcongs' bullying and murdering our fishermen in our territory


You didnt make a full investigation,you lied, everyone knew our men were unarmed and innocent.

The Philippnes also should annouce that was pirate ship and need no investigation like what China did to our fishermen in 2005.

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## shuttler

NiceGuy said:


> You didnt make a full investigation,you lied, everyone knew our men were unarmed and innocent.
> 
> The Philippnes also should annouce that was pirate ship and need no investigation like what China did to our fishermen in 2005.



we had killings on both side and you got your answers for murdering and bullying our folks! why keep lying and disrespect the truth - again stop quoting old news between China and vietcongs!

relating to the recent conflicts our investigation was no more than firing of warning flares at the intruders unlike this tragedy when the brutal pinoy coastguards kept chasing the unarmed fishermen for over an hour, spraying 32 rounds of bullets through their machine guns, making over 52 bullet holes which all showing their blood-thirsty desire for a massacre!


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## Viet

shuttler said:


> Then blame the pinoy government to all the wrong doings!


You shouldn´t generalise everything. The act of a single Philippine coast guard ship is not of their government nor their people. I can understand the emotion runs high at the moment. However, t is good for everybody to keep a cool head.



NiceGuy said:


> It's inevitable when China keep bullying its neighbours.Chinese shoot and killed unarmed VNese fishermen in 2005, too .
> 
> Btw:S.K also killed Chinese fishermen.
> They just learn the way you did to our fishermen in 2005,Phil only forgot to say that TWese boat was pirate boat. Look at the mirror and blame urself first.


Vietnam must not copy China everything. We are different. Bro.


----------



## NiceGuy

shuttler said:


> we had killings on both side and you get your answers for murdering and bullying our folks! why keep lying and disrespect the truth - again stop quoting old news between China and vietcongs


our boat were unarmed,our people were innocent.


> Chinese ships deliberately shot to kill Vietnamese fishermen during attacks in the Gulf of Tonkin Jan. 8, said a survivor.
> "They fiercely attacked us with the intention of killing the crew to steal the boat rather than just stealing our boat," crew member Pham Van Quan said while telling the nightmare tale of Chinese boat attacks which killed nine Vietnamese fishermen and injured seven others.
> 
> Quan is a crew member of the boat which managed to reach the shore after being attacked by Chinese ships in the Gulf of Tonkin. The boat returned to port Jan. 11 with one dead and five crew members injured.
> 
> However, another Vietnamese boat with a 16-member crew was not so lucky during the attack. Half of the crew were shot to death, while the rest, including two injured, were arrested by the Chinese. The boat is now being held illegally on China's Hainan Island .
> 
> Nguyen Van Hoan, owner of the returning boat, showed Thanh Nien reporters hundreds of bullet holes in his boat.
> 
> At the time of attacks, the Vietnamese boats were legally fishing in the Gulf of Tonkin.
> 
> Shockingly barbaric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With just a small 70-90 CV engine, the Vietnamese boats are unable to go fishing too far from land.
> (Source: Nguoi Lao Dong newspaper)
> 
> "At 10 a.m. on Jan. 8, I received S.O.S. signals from a Vietnamese fishing boat and asked the crew to withdraw their nets to go and rescue the boat in danger," Mr. Hoan told the reporters while sobbing.
> 
> At that time, his boat was located at 19.16 degrees northern latitude and 107.06 degrees eastern longitude, he said.
> 
> "But I immediately found my boat surrounded by many vessels carrying Chinese flags. My crew made signs for the strange ships to stay away from the fishing nets but the ships kept coming closer to us.
> 
> "Then the Chinese ships opened fire on my boat in the barbaric attack. Nguyen Van Tam was shot through the heart and died instantly. Five other crew members were seriously injured," he lamented.VPA - News


China held our boat in Hai Nan and they found no weapons on it. China killed unarmed VNese fishermen,so you cant blame Phil for doing the same ghing to ur people.



Viet said:


> Vietnam must not copy China everything. We are different. Bro.


I dont say VN should become mudder ,too. I mean : Phil kill Chinese fishermen is inevitable when Chinese keep bulliyng its neighbours and China cant accuse Phil for that incident coz China did the same thing to foreign fishermen.

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## shuttler

Viet said:


> You shouldn´t generalise everything. The act of a single Philippine coast guard ship is not of their government nor their people. I can understand the emotion runs high at the moment. However, t is good for everybody to keep a cool head.



"generalise"???!!! - the pinoy government is the ultimate answer to the acts - for better or worse - of its serving departments which work under it. The meaning of governance!



> Vietnam must not copy China everything. We are different. Bro.



while saying that you have been copying us for centuries until today and beyond!



NiceGuy said:


> our boat were unarmed,our people were innocent.
> China held our boat in Hai Nan and they found no weapons on it. China killed unarmed VNese fishermen,so you cant blame Phil for doing the same ghing to ur people.
> 
> I dont say VN should become mudder ,too. I mean : Phil kill Chinese fishermen is inevitable when Chinese keep bulliyng its neighbours and China cant accuse Phil for that incident coz China did the same thing to foreign fishermen.



you need to cut out the conflicts between China and your country.

This is between Taiwan, China and the philippines!


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## NiceGuy

shuttler said:


> you need to cut out the conflicts between China and your country.
> 
> This is between Taiwan, China and the philippines!


if u forget,let me remind u that VN-Phil are Hand in Hand against China-TW's aggression:

You cant blame Phil for doing the same thing like u.Punish ur mudders first if u want a fair justice for this case.

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## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> *Taiwan hands out 72-hour ultimatum to Manila*
> 
> http://www.asianewsnet.net
> Publication Date : 12-05-2013
> 
> Respond to demands or face consequences, Ma warns
> 
> Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou has given the Philippines 72 hours to respond to demands regarding the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman or face the consequences, Presidential Office spokesperson Garfie Li said yesterday.
> 
> The retaliation would include a freeze on all applications of Philippine labourers, the recalling of Taiwan's envoy in Manila and the expulsion of the Philippine envoy in Taipei, Li said.
> 
> The president yesterday called a national security meeting over the recent shooting of a Taiwan fishing boat by the Philippine coast guard.
> 
> The meeting, attended by Foreign Minister David Lin, Defence Minister Kao Hua-chu and other officials, signified an official upgrade of the case.
> 
> Chen Li-tung, a professor at National Taiwan Ocean University's Insitute of the Law of the Sea, said that under international law it was illegal for the Philippines vessel to shoot on an unarmed boat.
> 
> Meanwhile, Hu Nien-tsu, director of National Sun Yat-sen University's centre for Marine Policy Studies, said according to a 1982 U.N. convention, the Philippines must accept the traditional right of fishermen from neighbouring countries to fish in certain areas falling within archipelagic waters.
> 
> The Philippines must apologise, find and prosecute those responsible for the brutal killing, and offer compensation for the fisherman's death, Ma said earlier yesterday.
> 
> If the Philippines fails to do this and does not provide assurance that similar incidents will not happen again, Taiwan will consider imposing sanctions against the country, Ma said. A former high-ranking security official reportedly said that sanctions against the Philippines would not have a great effect.
> 
> The president should set up a task force and bring the Philippine suspects to Taiwan for trial on murder charges, the official said, adding that in the event of an arrest at sea, if the suspects resist, the Taiwanese Navy and Coast Guard should open fire and shoot to kill.
> 
> On Thursday, a Philippine government vessel opened fire on a Taiwanese boat that was fishing in disputed waters south of Taiwan.
> 
> In the ensuing gunfire, Hung Shih-cheng, a fisherman aboard the Taiwanese vessel, died from a bullet wound to the neck, investigators said.
> 
> Such excessive use of force is unacceptable in any country, Ma said, adding that the act of opening fire on an unarmed boat was inhuman, brutal and cold-blooded.
> 
> Meanwhile, footage of the event was brought back by a Philippines coast guard officer involved in the incident. The video, which will be given to investigators, will not be released for the time being.
> 
> Though the Philippines' top envoy to Taiwan has apologised to the family of the dead fisherman, its government has refused to apologise for the shooting, Ma said.
> 
> It is absolutely unacceptable for the Philippines to illegally kill someone and then refuse to apologise, the president said.
> 
> Ma noted that the tragedy once again highlights the issue of safety for Taiwanese fishing vessels operating on the high seas.
> 
> Taiwan's Coast Guard must beef up its operations in the South China Sea, he added.
> 
> The Philippines' top envoy to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, yesterday visited Hung's family on outlying Siaoliouciou Island to offer his condolences and apology. Basilio was accompanied by Taiwan's foreign minister.
> 
> Basilio reiterated that his government welcomes a joint investigation led by law enforcement authorities from both countries to establish the location of the incident and the circumstances that led to the tragedy.
> 
> Should the investigation show that there was a violation of international law and practice...as well as our domestic law, we will let the law take its course so that justice will be served, Basilio said.




We don't care majority of chinese criminals here are taiwanese next to you mainlanders so to that i say good bye to bad rubbish and the comeback of our industries and hey we have a lot of Panthers i mean your stupid boycotts did not work either so to hell with you and your B.O policies no apology to criminals only sympathies as a human being but that's all you people keep pushing now you have only your own to blame.



shuttler said:


> *Taiwan hands out 72-hour ultimatum to Manila*
> 
> http://www.asianewsnet.net
> Publication Date : 12-05-2013
> 
> Respond to demands or face consequences, Ma warns
> 
> Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou has given the Philippines 72 hours to respond to demands regarding the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman or face the consequences, Presidential Office spokesperson Garfie Li said yesterday.
> 
> The retaliation would include a freeze on all applications of Philippine labourers, the recalling of Taiwan's envoy in Manila and the expulsion of the Philippine envoy in Taipei, Li said.
> 
> The president yesterday called a national security meeting over the recent shooting of a Taiwan fishing boat by the Philippine coast guard.
> 
> The meeting, attended by Foreign Minister David Lin, Defence Minister Kao Hua-chu and other officials, signified an official upgrade of the case.
> 
> Chen Li-tung, a professor at National Taiwan Ocean University's Insitute of the Law of the Sea, said that under international law it was illegal for the Philippines vessel to shoot on an unarmed boat.
> 
> Meanwhile, Hu Nien-tsu, director of National Sun Yat-sen University's centre for Marine Policy Studies, said according to a 1982 U.N. convention, the Philippines must accept the traditional right of fishermen from neighbouring countries to fish in certain areas falling within archipelagic waters.
> 
> The Philippines must apologise, find and prosecute those responsible for the brutal killing, and offer compensation for the fisherman's death, Ma said earlier yesterday.
> 
> If the Philippines fails to do this and does not provide assurance that similar incidents will not happen again, Taiwan will consider imposing sanctions against the country, Ma said. A former high-ranking security official reportedly said that sanctions against the Philippines would not have a great effect.
> 
> The president should set up a task force and bring the Philippine suspects to Taiwan for trial on murder charges, the official said, adding that in the event of an arrest at sea, if the suspects resist, the Taiwanese Navy and Coast Guard should open fire and shoot to kill.
> 
> On Thursday, a Philippine government vessel opened fire on a Taiwanese boat that was fishing in disputed waters south of Taiwan.
> 
> In the ensuing gunfire, Hung Shih-cheng, a fisherman aboard the Taiwanese vessel, died from a bullet wound to the neck, investigators said.
> 
> Such excessive use of force is unacceptable in any country, Ma said, adding that the act of opening fire on an unarmed boat was inhuman, brutal and cold-blooded.
> 
> Meanwhile, footage of the event was brought back by a Philippines coast guard officer involved in the incident. The video, which will be given to investigators, will not be released for the time being.
> 
> Though the Philippines' top envoy to Taiwan has apologised to the family of the dead fisherman, its government has refused to apologise for the shooting, Ma said.
> 
> It is absolutely unacceptable for the Philippines to illegally kill someone and then refuse to apologise, the president said.
> 
> Ma noted that the tragedy once again highlights the issue of safety for Taiwanese fishing vessels operating on the high seas.
> 
> Taiwan's Coast Guard must beef up its operations in the South China Sea, he added.
> 
> The Philippines' top envoy to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, yesterday visited Hung's family on outlying Siaoliouciou Island to offer his condolences and apology. Basilio was accompanied by Taiwan's foreign minister.
> 
> Basilio reiterated that his government welcomes a joint investigation led by law enforcement authorities from both countries to establish the location of the incident and the circumstances that led to the tragedy.
> 
> Should the investigation show that there was a violation of international law and practice...as well as our domestic law, we will let the law take its course so that justice will be served, Basilio said.




We don't care majority of chinese criminals here are taiwanese next to you mainlanders so to that i say good bye to bad rubbish and the comeback of our industries and hey we have a lot of Panthers i mean your stupid boycotts did not work either so to hell with you and your B.O policies no apology to criminals only sympathies as a human being but that's all you people keep pushing now you have only your own to blame.

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## Soryu

zxmint said:


> LOL. You know why? Your American dad are making use of you puppy and hope you die as early as possible. They incite you to bark and bite without solid support like advanced weapons. What does it mean then? Never see more stupid people than Filipinos who are so pleased to be cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> *Really looking forward to seeing what would happen when Filipinos kill Viets fishermen. Monkey fighting? Must be interesting!*


Again, when things occurred, some helpless chinese can not do anything but insult others, LOL, you're not dare arguments but using dirty words, it's show how low some Chinese in here ... 


Viet said:


> Martian2 and other Chinese posters, you all can tone down the bottomless hatred against the Philippines a bit.


Look at them, Viet, Could you expected anything else from person like this...


----------



## zxmint

Soryu said:


> Again, when things occurred, some helpless chinese can not do anything but insult others, LOL, you're not dare arguments but using dirty words, it's show how low some Chinese in here ...
> 
> Look at them, Viet, Could you expected anything else from person like this...



We are just not that urge to fark u up. But u look like more urge to be farked. U Viets really 
think China can do nothing toward you? Where's your confidence come from? Funny moron.


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## Soryu

self delete


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## Soryu

zxmint said:


> We are just not that urge to fark u up. But u look like more urge to be farked. U Viets really
> think China can do nothing toward you? Where's your confidence come from? Funny moron.



Well, I know you chinese can do many thing, example like this :












> 700 million "Japanese soldiers" died in China in 2012 | Offbeat China


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## zxmint

Soryu said:


> Well, I know you chinese can do many thing, example like this :


Glad to see this series make you so happy. They are initially comedies. It is really fun to see Filipinos crying that China fark it too hard while Viets are so urged to be farked up. Be patient, you would be the next one. Everybody would get satisfied after all. LOL



NiceGuy said:


> if u forget,let me remind u that VN-Phil are Hand in Hand against China-TW's aggression:
> 
> You cant blame Phil for doing the same thing like u.Punish ur mudders first if u want a fair justice for this case.



VN-Phil hand in hand? I cannot find a more funny thing like that... LOL Aren't you always dreaming of forming a VN-Russia Alliance against China? Now it turns to Philippines which can fight against nobody but fishermen?


----------



## Martian2

Manila response 'flippant,' ultimatum stands: gov't - The China Post

"*Manila response 'flippant,' ultimatum stands: gov't*
The China Post news staff and CNA
May 13, 2013, 12:07 am TWN

TAIPEI, Taiwan -- Presidential Office spokeswoman Garfie Li (&#26446;&#20339;&#38671 yesterday said that the Philippines will have to pay the price if it shows no sincerity in solving a dispute over the shooting of a Taiwanese sailor.

The Philippines' Presidential Office offered its deepest sympathies and condolences yesterday to the family of the fisherman who was killed in an incident involving a Philippine patrol boat, and vowed to conduct an impartial, transparent and expeditious investigation into the tragedy.

*Taiwan's Presidential Office considers the Philippines' statement flippant and said it showed no sincerity in solving the problem, Li said.*

Less than 24 hours after Taiwan issued an ultimatum to the Philippines, a deputy spokesperson at the Philippines' Presidential Office issued a statement on the incident that occurred on May 9 in waters south of Taiwan. A 65-year-old fisherman aboard a Taiwanese fishing boat was killed by gunfire from a Philippines state vessel.

According to the Philippines' statement, Deputy Presidential spokesperson Abigail F. Valte said as the Philippine Coast Guard has stated, we express our heartfelt sorrow on the unfortunate situation that occurred during one of the anti-illegal fishing patrols conducted by a Philippine fishery law enforcement vessel (MCS 3001) within the maritime jurisdiction (waters off the Batanes group of islands) of the Philippines on the morning of May 9, 2013, which tragically resulted in the death of a fisherman from one of the fishing vessels reportedly poaching in the area.

We extend our sincere and deepest sympathies and condolences to the bereaved family of the victim, Valte said.

Antonio Basilio, head of the Manila Economic and Cultural Office in Taiwan, which represents Philippine interests in Taiwan in the absence of official ties, has extended condolences and offered his apologies to the fisherman's family in person, Valte noted.

The spokesperson said an investigation has begun with the arrival of the commander of the MCS 3001. The commander and crew of the vessel have been relieved of their duties, she said.

The Philippine Coast Guard, together with other agencies, assures everyone that this investigation will be conducted in an impartial, transparent and expeditious manner, Valte added.

The Philippines will look into ways of preventing similar incidents in the future, she said.

Taiwan Presidential Office spokesperson Lee said Basilio visited and apologized to the victim's family three days ago, however, his apology was not recognized by Philippines. In light of this, Taiwan did not consider it a formal apology from the Philippines.

*Taiwan's Presidential Office demanded late Saturday that the Philippines issue a formal apology, compensate the victim's family for their loss, investigate the incident and punish the perpetrators, and start fishery agreement talks with Taiwan as soon as possible.

If the Philippines fails to respond appropriately by midnight Tuesday, Taiwan will suspend importation of Philippine labor*, recall its representative in Manila, and ask the Philippine envoy in Taiwan to return to his home country, the Presidential Office said."

----------

At Viet:

The Philippine government goons just murdered a defenseless and unarmed elderly 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman and you want me to relax?

What are you, an idiot?

Taiwan is preparing to go to war and has sent the Taiwan Navy to the site of the Taiwanese fisherman's murder by the Philippine government. The Philippine government is engaged in state-sponsored terrorism where they butcher utterly defenseless civilians. FU Viet.

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## Soryu

Martian2 said:


> At Viet:
> 
> The Philippine government goons just murdered a defenseless and unarmed elderly 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman and you want me to relax?
> 
> What are you, an idiot?
> 
> Taiwan is preparing to go to war and has sent the Taiwan Navy to the site of the Taiwanese fisherman's murder by the Philippine government. The Philippine government is engaged in state-sponsored terrorism where they butcher utterly defenseless civilians. FU Viet.


The kid want war,so, now let wait for daddy...


----------



## Soryu

Martian2 said:


> At Viet:
> 
> The Philippine government goons just murdered a defenseless and unarmed elderly 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman and you want me to relax?
> 
> What are you, an idiot?
> 
> Taiwan is preparing to go to war and has sent the Taiwan Navy to the site of the Taiwanese fisherman's murder by the Philippine government. The Philippine government is engaged in state-sponsored terrorism where they butcher utterly defenseless civilians. FU Viet.


The kid want war,so, now let wait for daddy...


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## Zero_wing

Martian2 said:


> Manila response 'flippant,' ultimatum stands: gov't - The China Post
> 
> "*Manila response 'flippant,' ultimatum stands: gov't*
> The China Post news staff and CNA
> May 13, 2013, 12:07 am TWN
> 
> TAIPEI, Taiwan -- Presidential Office spokeswoman Garfie Li (&#26446;&#20339;&#38671 yesterday said that the Philippines will have to pay the price if it shows no sincerity in solving a dispute over the shooting of a Taiwanese sailor.
> 
> The Philippines' Presidential Office offered its &#8220;deepest sympathies and condolences&#8221; yesterday to the family of the fisherman who was killed in an incident involving a Philippine patrol boat, and vowed to conduct an &#8220;impartial, transparent and expeditious&#8221; investigation into the tragedy.
> 
> *Taiwan's Presidential Office considers the Philippines' statement &#8220;flippant&#8221; and said it showed no sincerity in solving the problem, Li said.*
> 
> Less than 24 hours after Taiwan issued an ultimatum to the Philippines, a deputy spokesperson at the Philippines' Presidential Office issued a statement on the incident that occurred on May 9 in waters south of Taiwan. A 65-year-old fisherman aboard a Taiwanese fishing boat was killed by gunfire from a Philippines state vessel.
> 
> According to the Philippines' statement, Deputy Presidential spokesperson Abigail F. Valte said &#8220;as the Philippine Coast Guard has stated, we express our heartfelt sorrow on the unfortunate situation that occurred during one of the anti-illegal fishing patrols conducted by a Philippine fishery law enforcement vessel (MCS 3001) within the maritime jurisdiction (waters off the Batanes group of islands) of the Philippines on the morning of May 9, 2013, which tragically resulted in the death of a fisherman from one of the fishing vessels reportedly poaching in the area.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;We extend our sincere and deepest sympathies and condolences to the bereaved family of the victim,&#8221; Valte said.
> 
> Antonio Basilio, head of the Manila Economic and Cultural Office in Taiwan, which represents Philippine interests in Taiwan in the absence of official ties, has extended condolences and offered his apologies to the fisherman's family in person, Valte noted.
> 
> The spokesperson said an investigation has begun with the arrival of the commander of the MCS 3001. The commander and crew of the vessel have been relieved of their duties, she said.
> 
> &#8220;The Philippine Coast Guard, together with other agencies, assures everyone that this investigation will be conducted in an impartial, transparent and expeditious manner,&#8221; Valte added.
> 
> The Philippines will look into ways of preventing similar incidents in the future, she said.
> 
> Taiwan Presidential Office spokesperson Lee said Basilio visited and apologized to the victim's family three days ago, however, his apology was not recognized by Philippines. In light of this, Taiwan did not consider it a formal apology from the Philippines.
> 
> *Taiwan's Presidential Office demanded late Saturday that the Philippines issue a formal apology, compensate the victim's family for their loss, investigate the incident and punish the perpetrators, and start fishery agreement talks with Taiwan as soon as possible.
> 
> If the Philippines fails to respond appropriately by midnight Tuesday, Taiwan will suspend importation of Philippine labor*, recall its representative in Manila, and ask the Philippine envoy in Taiwan to return to his home country, the Presidential Office said."
> 
> ----------
> 
> At Viet:
> 
> The Philippine government goons just murdered a defenseless and unarmed elderly 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman and you want me to relax?
> 
> What are you, an idiot?
> 
> Taiwan is preparing to go to war and has sent the Taiwan Navy to the site of the Taiwanese fisherman's murder by the Philippine government. The Philippine government is engaged in state-sponsored terrorism where they butcher utterly defenseless civilians. FU Viet.



Unarmed yes but stupid one ramming a Coast Guard boat is stupid in the first place and all procedures have been done so why are you people cry foul on weaker state while Russia blow you away and said nothing? funny I know taiwan is different still you guys were caught fishing near a Philippine Province no less and you have the nerve to call PCG criminals who have done their duty china and taiwan did far worse especially china so you have no right to complain for acting so stupid stupid enough to think ramming is a good idea you people love to get into fights with nations you think will not fight back and you now put the blame on innocent works who can't fight back typical racist attitude of all chinese racist dumb and no hygiene


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## Martian2

Zero_wing said:


> Unarmed yes but stupid one ramming a Coast Guard boat is stupid in the first place and all procedures have been done so why are you people cry foul on weaker state while Russia blow you away and said nothing? funny I know taiwan is different still you guys were caught fishing near a Philippine Province no less and you have the nerve to call PCG criminals who have done their duty china and taiwan did far worse especially china so you have no right to complain for acting so stupid stupid enough to think ramming is a good idea you people love to get into fights with nations you think will not fight back and you now put the blame on innocent works who can't fight back typical racist attitude of all chinese racist dumb and no hygiene



*Philippine government committed a war crime*

1. The Taiwanese fishing boat did not ram a Philippine coast guard ship.

The evidence is as follows:

a. A small wooden fishing boat would have no effect on a large (and probably metallic) Philippine coast guard ship.

b. The Skipper of the Taiwanese fishing boat said he never tried to ram the much larger Philippine coast guard ship.

c. There isn't a single scratch on the bow of the Taiwanese fishing boat as seen in the photographs when it arrived in Taiwan.

Also, knowing that a small wooden ship will have no effect on a large metallic coast guard ship, you are not allowed to execute unarmed civilians at sea. You can arrest them, but not execute them. Execution of unarmed civilians is a war crime.

2. Taiwan has never had a dispute with Russia. It is irrelevant and a sad attempt at diversion from the Philippine government's war crime against a helpless elderly Taiwanese fisherman, who was 164 miles south of Taiwan and within Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ (ie. exclusive economic zone).


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## Martian2

*I fully support Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou and the KMT*

1. Taiwan is on the verge of war against the Philippines. We Taiwanese stand united.

2. Taiwan has dispatched a La Fayette frigate to patrol the area where the Taiwanese fisherman was murdered by Philippine government coast guard terrorists, which is 164 miles south of Taiwan and within Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ (ie. exclusive economic zone).

3. Taiwan does not need American political support or military help to smash the Philippine war criminals. We Taiwanese are resolute and will take care of this problem ourselves.





An official waves to Taiwan naval Lafayette-class frigate (R) and Taiwan Coast Guard frigate as the vessels sail out of the port of Kaohsiung, southern Taiwan, in this handout photo from Taiwan Coast Guard, on Sunday. (Reuters)





One of Taiwan's Lafayette-class frigates has been dispatched to patrol the area where the unarmed Taiwanese fisherman was killed by Philippine government coast guard thugs.





Officers on board a Taiwanese Coast Guard vessel

Source: Taiwan beefs up protection for fishermen in wake of fatal shooting | Latest | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

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## ChinaToday

Zero_wing said:


> ad hominem



we will shoot dead all pinoy coast guards at sea if your government don't apologize, like what masia did to pinoys in sabu few months ago

*Taiwan sends ships near PH waters*

*The official said Ma should set up a task force and bring the Philippine suspects to Taiwan for trial on murder charges. 

In the event of an arrest at sea, if the suspects resist, the Taiwanese Navy and coast guard should open fire and shoot to kill, the official said. *


Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/74393/taiwan-sends-ships-near-ph-waters#ixzz2T7XJWOKR 
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook

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## Zero_wing

Funny you racist jerks want war on nations who are weaker than you while Russia put you and your place and you just cry over it typical racist chinese warmongers its because you guys are not gonna fight anyway pu$$ies! anyway I guess even with your so called equipment due to arrogance and stupidity you can't even tell that you people are fishing near Philipine Province that's not even a EZZ anymore its Philippine Home Waters and you have the nerve to threaten us with war! The death of that poor man was the result of your arrogant and stupid actions (ramming a PCG no matter the size of it is an act of idiots) sure send in your fleet were sending our ships too 


Palace: Ramming of Taiwan boat an &#8216;aggressive act&#8217;


MANILA (Updated) -- Malacañang defended Friday the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) against "aggressive act" of a Taiwanese fishing boat where a fisherman was killed off West Philippine Sea last Thursday.

Quoting an initial report reaching the Palace, deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte said the PCG personnel on board the vessel of the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) merely reacted on the attempt of one of the four Taiwanese fishing boats to ram on the Philippine&#8217;s ship.

The Filipino Maritime Control Surveillance 3001 vessel spotted four Taiwanese fishing vessels about 43 nautical miles east of Balintang Island, which is well within the Philippines&#8217; 200-mile economic zone, around 10:30 a.m. Thursday while on law enforcement patrol.

"When they (PCG personnel) tried to board one of the fishing boats, one of the (Taiwanese) vessels rammed the BFAR vessel that was being manned by the Coast Guard. So a warning shot was fired, but the vessels reportedly did not stop in the attempt to continuously ram the BFAR vessel and another shot was fired on the machinery portion of the ship," Valte said.

The PCG admitted that a Taiwanese fisherman was killed in the incident.

"It was an aggressive act. The ramming of the boat into our vessel was certainly an aggressive act, so the PCG responded accordingly," she said.

Coast Guard commandant Rear Admiral Rodoldo Isorena said all the Coast Guard personnel and the two BFAR personnel aboard the Filipino vessel have been relieved of their duties pending the investigation.

This is to ensure a "transparent and impartial" probe, he said.

"We assure a transparent and impartial investigation and this is also the assurance that we are giving to the Taiwanese government," he said.

Taiwan reportedly sought for a public apology from the Philippine government and demanded compensation for the losses.

A report on Taiwan's Central News Agency (CNA) quoted President Ma Ying-jeou who instructed the country's Ministry of Foreign Affairs to demand that the Philippine government investigate the incident and provide proper compensation to the family of the 65-year-old victim, identified as Hung Shih-cheng.

He also demanded an apology from the Philippine government, and for it "to solve the case and arrest the culprit."

The CNA report said that there have been incidents in the past when Taiwanese fishermen were arrested and detained while they were fishing in the contested area, but there have been rarely reports of shooting.

Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has already conveyed its concern to Philippine Representative to Taipei Carlo Aquino.

Valte said the Palace would wait first for the result of the investigation that Isorena had ordered before coming out with any action on Taiwan's demand.

In a separate report on Xinhua, the Chinese government called the shooting of the Taiwanese fishermen by the Coast Guard "barbaric."

China considers Taiwan a province and under its jurisdiction based on the One China Policy.

The incident, which happened in the contested areas claimed by the Philippines, China and Taiwan, is feared to further raise tensions in a region clouded by territorial and maritime issues because of overlapping claims.

Aside from the three countries, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei Darussalam are also claimant to the resource-rich region where around $5 trillion worth of global trade passes.



ChinaToday said:


> we will shoot dead all pinoy coast guards at sea if your government don't apologize, like what masia did to pinoys in sabu few months ago
> 
> *Taiwan sends ships near PH waters*
> 
> *The official said Ma should set up a task force and bring the Philippine suspects to Taiwan for trial on murder charges.
> 
> In the event of an arrest at sea, if the suspects resist, the Taiwanese Navy and coast guard should open fire and shoot to kill, the official said. *
> 
> 
> Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/74393/taiwan-sends-ships-near-ph-waters#ixzz2T7XJWOKR
> Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook




Go ahead make my day


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## Zero_wing

labor import is frozen, warns Taiwanese official

Taiwan's tech sector may be hit hardest if Taiwan freezes the importation of Philippine labor due to a row that killed a Taiwanese fisherman last Thursday, a Taiwanese labor official admitted Sunday.

Lin San-quei, head of the Bureau of Employment and Vocational Training, said Filipino workers have a good command of English and skills for operating machinery, Taiwan's Central News Agency reported.

The labor bureau estimates there are 87,000 Filipino laborers in Taiwan, most of whom work in the manufacturing sector. The others are mainly domestic caretakers, the CNA report said.

A Taiwanese fisherman, Hung Shih-cheng, 65, was shot dead in an encounter with Philippine authorities in disputed waters last May 9.

Philippine Coast Guard officials said the Taiwanese boat may have tried to ram their vessel.

Taiwan threatened to suspend the importation of Philippine labor if the Philippines does not respond to its demand for an apology and investigation in 72 hours.

Meanwhile, the CNA report said some Philippine workers in Taiwan voiced sympathy for Hung's family, with some in favor of an apology by the Philippines.

See this from a fellow Taiwanese face it the Moron President of Taiwan is just doing it to up start his popularity then do it am sure with their skills and exp they can work some place else better than racist arrogant taiwan i wanna see mainlanders do works like that oh wait they just steal or copy or both hahhahahha


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## p3avi8tor69

ChinaToday said:


> we will shoot dead all pinoy coast guards at sea if your government don't apologize, like what masia did to pinoys in sabu few months ago
> 
> *Taiwan sends ships near PH waters*
> 
> *The official said Ma should set up a task force and bring the Philippine suspects to Taiwan for trial on murder charges.
> 
> In the event of an arrest at sea, if the suspects resist, the Taiwanese Navy and coast guard should open fire and shoot to kill, the official said. *
> 
> 
> Read more: Taiwan sends ships near PH waters | Inquirer Global Nation
> Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook



Taiwan will not open fire and shoot to kill the Pinoys. The Pinoys are protected by Uncle Sammy. Uncle Sammy and the Pinoys have an agreement and one of the tenets of that agreement gives the Pinoys the opportunity to seek our assistance should their military assets are attacked by a foreign power. This sending of Taiwanese naval vessels is just grandstanding by Ma for domestic consumption. Failure to act would have been political suicide for Ma. Taiwan is dependent on the United States for its security and weapons. Taiwan will not jeopardize this special relationship over the death of one fisherman. Ma knows this and the Pinoys know this (that why they are rubbing salt to the injury), hence, you see why it is so infuriating for the Taiwanese. If the incident involved lets say the Viets, it probably will turn out differently.

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## Martian2

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Taiwan will not open fire and shoot to kill the Pinoys. The Pinoys are protected by Uncle Sammy. Uncle Sammy and the Pinoys have an agreement and one of the tenets of that agreement gives the Pinoys the opportunity to seek our assistance should their military assets are attacked by a foreign power. This sending of Taiwanese naval vessels is just grandstanding by Ma for domestic consumption. Failure to act would have been political suicide for Ma. Taiwan is dependent on the United States for its security and weapons. Taiwan will not jeopardize this special relationship over the death of one fisherman. Ma knows this and the Pinoys know this (that why they are rubbing salt to the injury), hence, you see why it is so infuriating for the Taiwanese. If the incident involved lets say the Viets, it probably will turn out differently.



*Taiwan will achieve justice with or without the United States*

You are dead wrong.

The United States has repeatedly said its treaties are a DEFENSIVE shield and not a sword.

For example, Georgia received millions of dollars in U.S. aid and NATO training. When Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers, the United States did nothing as Russia annexed 20% of Georgia.

Similarly, here we have Philippine government coast guard terrorists massacring an unarmed elderly Taiwanese fisherman inside Taiwan's own EEZ.

The United States will not support the Philippine government criminals against Taiwan.

Even if the United States decides to support the Philippine government coast guard thugs, Taiwan can request mainland Chinese EMP strikes against American military units to nullify them.

If the United States stands for Philippine criminality then it is probably time for Taiwan and the United States to part ways. Chinese reunification is inevitable anyway. We'll just move the timetable up by a few decades.

No matter what, Taiwan will have justice over the butchering of an unarmed Taiwanese civilian by the Philippine government coast guard criminals.

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## ChinaToday

Zero_wing said:


> Funny you racist jerks want war on nations who are weaker than you while Russia put you and your place and you just cry over it typical racist chinese warmongers its because you guys are not gonna fight anyway pu$$ies! anyway I guess even with your so called equipment due to arrogance and stupidity you can't even tell that you people are fishing near Philipine Province that's not even a EZZ anymore its Philippine Home Waters and you have the nerve to threaten us with war! The death of that poor man was the result of your arrogant and stupid actions (ramming a PCG no matter the size of it is an act of idiots) sure send in your fleet were sending our ships too
> 
> Go ahead make my day



your ships are antigue ,your economy sucks, your people not as educated as Taiwanese, you are no match , if I were your president I apologize tomorow

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## faithfulguy

ChinaToday said:


> your ships are antigue ,your economy sucks, your people not as educated as Taiwanese, you are no match , if I were your president I apologize tomorow



But it takes basic common sense to know that they are overmatched, these guys have no logic and common sense. They act according with their ego and pride. 

Filipinos used to be wealthier than Japan after WWII. By the 60s, they were surpassed by Japan. By the 70s, they were surpassed by Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong. But they were still confident that they were wealthier than China. In early-mid 2000s, they were surpassed by China. Now, they are full of confidence as they are still wealthier than Vietnam and India. With India's current economic growth, they will soon surpass Philippines in GDP per capita. Its sad that Philippine are now to be about more poor than Indians though a couple of generations ago, they were wealthier than even Japan itself. This is an example of how the colonialists were right about the natives do not how the necessities to govern themselves. They are better off being govern by a foreign power.

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## jhungary

More detail report of the incident I can find in open authority source

Some facts of the incident

Incident happened at 43 nautical miles east of Balintang Island according to BFAR
Incident happened at 170 nautical miles south of Taiwan according Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs

There are 32 bullet holes in the fishing trawler according to Taiwanese Coast Guard

MCS3001 is a bigger ship that of the Fishing Trawler (Structural Fact)

MCS3001 fire warning shot at bow first, then fire at the fishing trawler compartment. (According to Philippine Coast Guard)

65 years old Taiwanese Fisherman die in the incident (Commonly acknowledged facts)

MCS3001 personnel attempted to board the Fishing Trawler, so assume a dingy or rubber speed boat was used (According to Philippine coast guard)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Above is the know fact from both authority 

Known fact on boarding a ship

When a naval vessel want to board and search a vessel. The naval vessel will launch a motorized dingy or a "Motor-launch" contain a boarding party. Which usually carry assorted firearm. The boarding team usually consist a Helmsman, a Mechanic and a Master at Arms. 

At that moment, the naval vessel will announce their intention over the radio (Or megaphone if they are close enough) and will use light signal to signal their intention. The Naval vessel will send out said message

"This is XXX war ship, stop or heave to and prepare to be boarded" 

If target ship stopped, then the boarding party will use the launch and approach the target ship.

If the target did not stopped, the navy ship is then reiterated the instruction. With the warning of "We are carrying live ammunition"

If the target again refuse to stop. A warning shot is fire from Naval Ship main weapon, across bow (To be exact, 5 degree across bow)

If the target still refuse to stop, the next appropriate step is to fire on the engine to disable it.

If the target ship at any point shown aggression, and depend on the level of aggression, the naval vessel can use lethal force and destroy the target vessel. 

This is how US Coast Guard board ship in open ocean.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Zero_wing

ChinaToday said:


> your ships are antigue ,your economy sucks, your people not as educated as Taiwanese, you are no match , if I were your president I apologize tomorow



hahahahahahaha you so far from the true 

Philippine economy to grow 6.2 pct in 2013: UN report 
Iconic Rolls-Royce sets sights on PHL, 'Asia's rising star'
Stellar performance for PH economy in 2013, 2014 to name a few 

about our ship well yes but new ones are on the way 

Japan loan to own 10 ships brand new
S. Korea 2 new Frigates plus new 12 fighters 
New weapons and new equipment coming from Italy, Britain, German, Poland and Israel 

Makes me laugh you don't know while the rest of the world knows hahahahaha your so stupid


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## Martian2

jhungary said:


> More detail report of the incident I can find in open authority source
> 
> Some facts of the incident
> 
> Incident happened at 43 nautical miles east of Balintang Island according to BFAR
> Incident happened at 170 nautical miles south of Taiwan according Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs
> 
> There are 32 bullet holes in the fishing trawler according to Taiwanese Coast Guard
> 
> MCS3001 is a bigger ship that of the Fishing Trawler (Structural Fact)
> 
> MCS3001 fire warning shot at bow first, then fire at the fishing trawler compartment. (According to Philippine Coast Guard)
> 
> 65 years old Taiwanese Fisherman die in the incident (Commonly acknowledged facts)
> 
> MCS3001 personnel attempted to board the Fishing Trawler, so assume a dingy or rubber speed boat was used (According to Philippine coast guard)
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Above is the know fact from both authority
> 
> Known fact on boarding a ship
> 
> When a naval vessel want to board and search a vessel. The naval vessel will launch a motorized dingy or a "Motor-launch" contain a boarding party. Which usually carry assorted firearm. The boarding team usually consist a Helmsman, a Mechanic and a Master at Arms.
> 
> At that moment, the naval vessel will announce their intention over the radio (Or megaphone if they are close enough) and will use light signal to signal their intention. The Naval vessel will send out said message
> 
> "This is XXX war ship, stop or heave to and prepare to be boarded"
> 
> If target ship stopped, then the boarding party will use the launch and approach the target ship.
> 
> If the target did not stopped, the navy ship is then reiterated the instruction. With the warning of "We are carrying live ammunition"
> 
> If the target again refuse to stop. A warning shot is fire from Naval Ship main weapon, across bow (To be exact, 5 degree across bow)
> 
> If the target still refuse to stop, the next appropriate step is to fire on the engine to disable it.
> 
> If the target ship at any point shown aggression, and depend on the level of aggression, the naval vessel can use lethal force and destroy the target vessel.
> 
> This is how US Coast Guard board ship in open ocean.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The Philippines is a Third World country. They do not follow US Coast Guard procedures. You are in the wrong thread.

Show me the part in the US Coast Guard handbook where it says fire 52 large-caliber rounds at unarmed fishermen in a small wooden boat that is within the fishermen country's own 200-mile EEZ.

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## ChinaToday

Zero_wing said:


> hahahahahahaha you so far from the true
> 
> Philippine economy to grow 6.2 pct in 2013: UN report
> Iconic Rolls-Royce sets sights on PHL, 'Asia's rising star'
> Stellar performance for PH economy in 2013, 2014 to name a few
> 
> about our ship well yes but new ones are on the way
> 
> Japan loan to own 10 ships brand new
> S. Korea 2 new Frigates plus new 12 fighters
> New weapons and new equipment coming from Italy, Britain, German, Poland and Israel
> 
> Makes me laugh you don't know while the rest of the world knows hahahahaha your so stupid



LOL economic rising star in export bananas and beg southeast asia countries to give your women job as maids I agreed



faithfulguy said:


> But it takes basic common sense to know that they are overmatched, these guys have no logic and common sense. They act according with their ego and pride.
> 
> Filipinos used to be wealthier than Japan after WWII. By the 60s, they were surpassed by Japan. By the 70s, they were surpassed by Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong. But they were still confident that they were wealthier than China. In early-mid 2000s, they were surpassed by China. Now, they are full of confidence as they are still wealthier than Vietnam and India. With India's current economic growth, they will soon surpass Philippines in GDP per capita. Its sad that Philippine are now to be about more poor than Indians though a couple of generations ago, they were wealthier than even Japan itself. This is an example of how the colonialists were right about the natives do not how the necessities to govern themselves. They are better off being govern by a foreign power.



in Southeast asia philipine is considered a failed state period, soon even Cambodia will employ pinoys as maids

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> But it takes basic common sense to know that they are overmatched, these guys have no logic and common sense. They act according with their ego and pride.
> 
> Filipinos used to be wealthier than Japan after WWII. By the 60s, they were surpassed by Japan. By the 70s, they were surpassed by Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong. But they were still confident that they were wealthier than China. In early-mid 2000s, they were surpassed by China. Now, they are full of confidence as they are still wealthier than Vietnam and India. With India's current economic growth, they will soon surpass Philippines in GDP per capita. Its sad that Philippine are now to be about more poor than Indians though a couple of generations ago, they were wealthier than even Japan itself. This is an example of how the colonialists were right about the natives do not how the necessities to govern themselves. They are better off being govern by a foreign power.



Oh please that's just racist idiotic reason why you guys making your own manifest destiny you people are as backward in though as if you guys are in the middle ages have you seen the news lately that philippines is one of the best economies in the world right now please you just a other Imperialist warmongering racist stupid political/Economic analysis wanna be! And terrible historian too and as poor as Indian? other wrong made up fact, first India is on of the top economies in fact its on its way to become a major global economic in 30 to 50 years its going to be a major economic power house it actual china who is declining Please you people can't even tell your own areas you have the nerve to talk $hat about people you know little or nothing about while the real crime here is you stealing and claiming other peoples land and Resources all you racist Imperial nazi wanna be Chinese are all Criminals you people are just making enemies of all the weaker states because you think you can take them well your surely mistaken if i were you i should wait for the investigation all dirty racist warmongers should live in the real world for a change.



ChinaToday said:


> LOL economic rising star in export bananas and beg southeast asia countries to give your women job as maids I agreed
> 
> 
> 
> in Southeast asia philipine is considered a failed state period



Oh please! you don't even know that word please stop using words that you don't even know it makes you looks stupid 

plus you can't even Spell right i mean Philippine? really its Philippines idiot you can't even do that right? and you love to talk stereotypes what china exports? Cheap poorly made and dangerous goods (which true) and women who love to give blow jobs for $2 and $5 or $ for $ex10 a season after a good massage all over the world say your mom send you your allowance yet i guess banks don't accept dirty ho money hahahahahaha  maid's and banana's are honesty clean work and products while your products are unclean and disgusting and unfit for people but your less of a people so its ok your people is every bodies ho's anyway! all around the world there is a sex den chinatown even in chinatown (see racist rants are not fun think before you type oh you have none of that)


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## faithfulguy

Zero_wing said:


> hahahahahahaha you so far from the true
> 
> Philippine economy to grow 6.2 pct in 2013: UN report
> Iconic Rolls-Royce sets sights on PHL, 'Asia's rising star'
> Stellar performance for PH economy in 2013, 2014 to name a few
> 
> about our ship well yes but new ones are on the way
> 
> Japan loan to own 10 ships brand new
> S. Korea 2 new Frigates plus new 12 fighters
> New weapons and new equipment coming from Italy, Britain, German, Poland and Israel
> 
> Makes me laugh you don't know while the rest of the world knows hahahahaha your so stupid



Filipino economy is based on remittance. Just like China is base on manufacturing and India is base on IT.

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## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> The Philippines is a Third World country. They do not follow US Coast Guard procedures. You are in the wrong thread.
> 
> Show me the part in the US Coast Guard handbook where it says fire 52 large-caliber rounds at unarmed fishermen in a small wooden boat that is within the fishermen country's own 200-mile EEZ.



dude, I only list the facts, how to interpret it is up to anyone's own imagination. You can say whatever you want that does not change the fact that I listed, which simply because they are facts, you pick the wrong post to devalue and argue.


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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> Filipino economy is based on remittance. Just like China is base on manufacturing and India is base on IT.



Well so what? its not we have a lot of people in china and taiwan we have a lot of places 11 million filipinos work overseas tell me why is that a bad thing in a global economy? and other we are rebuilding our industries here thanks to china's decline as the world factory and its not just us and India is making their own mark on Industries as well so what's your point please read and think before you type or your just other Imperial chinese?



ChinaToday said:


> the only country all their women have to go work oversea and all their men stay at home and he said his country is asia economic rising star hahaha



Wow i though that was your country giving the world its daily blow jobs and 2 mins of $ex at the local chinatowns hahahaha 



jhungary said:


> dude, I only list the facts, how to interpret it is up to anyone's own imagination. You can say whatever you want that does not change the fact that I listed, which simply because they are facts, you pick the wrong post to devalue and argue.



Third world i think this guy is leaving in the cave we no longer a third world country its newly industrialized country now along with Brazil and Mexico etc its long list i think this morons don't understand anything only what they are told and allowed to have.


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## faithfulguy

Zero_wing said:


> Wow you just told me about your mother and sisters tell me did you kiss your mother on mothers day? Did she smells funny or you love cum too?
> 
> for the non chinese Imperials please lets all go back to topic and leave this morons to deal with their idiocy



You have been reported. You should be banned soon. No need to make this personal attacks when discuss in this forum.



ChinaToday said:


> the only country all their women have to go work oversea and all their men stay at home and he said his country is asia economic rising star hahaha



Truth hurt him so much that he have to resort to personal attacks. This guy will be banned soon.

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> You have been reported. You should be banned soon. No need to make this personal attacks when discuss in this forum.
> 
> 
> Truth hurt him so much that he have to resort to personal attacks. This guy will be banned soon.



Wow am just responding to racist comments now you people reports me so what? please i have a life unlike you i respond to attacks i only attack when attack by other people please cry me a river if you want me to stop you people all of you chinese imperials have to civil calling us name and crying foul when your losing is just so typical of all of you people besides you people started it in the first place is so typical of you people its almost a program what sore losers you people are typical sore losers can't take hit while first one to hit katarantadohan yan! In my language


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## Yukio

The Guang Ta Hsin 28 fishing boat is shown at a harbor in Taiwan before it allegedly came under fire from Philippine Coast Guard personnel on a BFAR vessel (lower photo) patrolling in waters off Batanes.


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## Zero_wing

Yukio said:


> The Guang Ta Hsin 28 fishing boat is shown at a harbor in Taiwan before it allegedly came under fire from Philippine Coast Guard personnel on a BFAR vessel (lower photo) patrolling in waters off Batanes.



See small ship big ship do the math typical chinese racist warmongers i don't know i bother you people have no brains anyway otherwise this would never happen


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## faithfulguy

Zero_wing said:


> Wow am just responding to racist comments now you people reports me so what? please i have a life unlike you i respond to attacks i only attack when attack by other people please cry me a river if you want me to stop you people all of you chinese imperials have to civil calling us name and crying foul when your losing is just so typical of all of you people besides you people started it in the first place is so typical of you people its almost a program what sore losers you people are typical sore losers can't take hit while first one to hit katarantadohan yan! In my language



I never made any attacks against you except discuss the topic. But you make personal attacks. Hope you say sorry before you are banned.

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> I never made any attacks against you except discuss the topic. But you make personal attacks. Hope you say sorry before you are banned.



Oh please so typical of your people to say i guess calling my people maids and exporters of banana's saying we are a third world etc are not personal attacks to you? and your kind? and you have the nerve to complain! typical just typical cry me a rive oh better yet as we say in the Philippines even if you cry me rocks or blood your still the criminal here! the nerve of you and your kind to complain while you start firing your mouths like crazy and your got hit you! complain sore lose get a life a real one if you can't take it anymore be somewhere else. gago ka ba sermonan mo pa ako tang ina mo that's my apology stick up your @$$


----------



## faithfulguy

Zero_wing said:


> Oh please so typical of your people to say i guess calling my people maids and exporters of banana's saying we are a third world etc are not personal attacks to you? and your kind? and you have the nerve to complain! typical just typical cry me a rive oh better yet as we say in the Philippines even if you cry me rocks or blood your still the criminal here! the nerve of you and your kind to complain while you start firing your mouths like crazy and your got hit you! complain sore lose get a life a real one if you can't take it anymore be somewhere else. gago ka ba sermonan mo pa ako tang ina mo that's my apology stick up your @$$



You will be ignore from now on.

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> You will be ignore from now on.



Why ask permission ? good then less rubbish to talk to the better have nice day jerk


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## Martian2

*Taiwan coastguard vessel Tainan Jian will fire on Philippine coast guard thugs*

The Philippine coast guard is a criminal organization that brutally murdered a helpless elderly Taiwanese fisherman. If the Taiwan coast guard finds the criminal Philippine coast guard ships in the Bashi Strait, we will exterminate the criminals.

Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

"Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions
*Government issues ultimatum to Manila following fatal shooting of Taiwanese fisherman in disputed water.*
Last Modified: 13 May 2013 03:12






[(L) Taiwanese La Fayette frigate. (R) Taiwanese coast guard ship.]

Taiwan's government has issued a 72-hour ultimatum to the Philippines' government, demanding an apology over the fatal shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman.

The Taiwanese coastguard on Sunday dispatched four vessels to guard the disputed water where the shooting incident took place.

*"The government is determined to protect our fishermen," cabinet spokeswoman Cheng Li-wen said in a statement as vessels headed towards the Bashi Strait, claimed by both governments, where the fisherman was killed on Thursday.

Ao Ming-wei, the captain of the coastguard vessel Tainan Jian said his vessel was prepared to face provocation and the crew would fire against possible threats.*

Taiwan has demanded Manila apologise and compensate the victim's family or face a freeze on the hiring of its nationals.

It also asked the Philippines to bring to justice the coastguards responsible and start negotiating a fisheries agreement.

"If the Filipino government fails to respond in a positive manner within 72 hours, the hiring of Philippine workers will be frozen," presidential office spokeswoman Lee Chia-fei said on Saturday.

There are about 87,000 Philippine domestic helpers and other workers in Taiwan and they send home hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Lee said other sanctions could include recalling the Taiwan ambassador to the Philippines and asking the Philippines ambassador to Taiwan to return to Manila to assist the investigation.

More than 50 bullets hit the ship, killing skipper Hung Shih-cheng.

"This is nothing but a slaughter," prosecutor Liu Chia-kai said after examining the ship.

Several fishermen's groups said they plan to file a protest at the Philippine mission in Taipei Monday."

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## Zero_wing

Martian2 said:


> *Taiwan coastguard vessel Tainan Jian will fire on Philippine coast guard thugs*
> 
> Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English
> 
> "Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions
> *Government issues ultimatum to Manila following fatal shooting of Taiwanese fisherman in disputed water.*
> Last Modified: 13 May 2013 03:12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [(L) Taiwanese La Fayette frigate. (R) Taiwanese coast guard ship.]
> 
> Taiwan's government has issued a 72-hour ultimatum to the Philippines' government, demanding an apology over the fatal shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman.
> 
> The Taiwanese coastguard on Sunday dispatched four vessels to guard the disputed water where the shooting incident took place.
> 
> *"The government is determined to protect our fishermen," cabinet spokeswoman Cheng Li-wen said in a statement as vessels headed towards the Bashi Strait, claimed by both governments, where the fisherman was killed on Thursday.
> 
> Ao Ming-wei, the captain of the coastguard vessel Tainan Jian said his vessel was prepared to face provocation and the crew would fire against possible threats.*
> 
> Taiwan has demanded Manila apologise and compensate the victim's family or face a freeze on the hiring of its nationals.
> 
> It also asked the Philippines to bring to justice the coastguards responsible and start negotiating a fisheries agreement.
> 
> "If the Filipino government fails to respond in a positive manner within 72 hours, the hiring of Philippine workers will be frozen," presidential office spokeswoman Lee Chia-fei said on Saturday.
> 
> There are about 87,000 Philippine domestic helpers and other workers in Taiwan and they send home hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
> 
> Lee said other sanctions could include recalling the Taiwan ambassador to the Philippines and asking the Philippines ambassador to Taiwan to return to Manila to assist the investigation.
> 
> More than 50 bullets hit the ship, killing skipper Hung Shih-cheng.
> 
> "This is nothing but a slaughter," prosecutor Liu Chia-kai said after examining the ship.
> 
> Several fishermen's groups said they plan to file a protest at the Philippine mission in Taipei Monday."



Well that it fine that will teach you to steal from us


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## Martian2

*Taiwan has amassed four frigates to patrol the Bashi Channel*

Taiwan's Navy is proving to the Philippines that Taiwan is the owner of the Bashi Channel, where the helpless elderly Taiwanese fisherman was brutally murdered by Philippine government coast guard thugs.

There are now four Taiwanese frigates in the Bashi Channel area: A Kidd-class warship, a Chengkung-class frigate, a Lafayette-class frigate, and a Knox-class frigate.

----------

Navy to have more frigates patrolling in waters south of Taiwan | Latest | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

"*Navy to have more frigates patrolling in waters south of Taiwan*
By Elaine Hou
2013/05/13 12:19:25

Taipei, May 13 (CNA) Taiwan's Navy will send two more frigates to join ships already on patrol in waters south of Taiwan, following the recent attack by a Philippine government vessel on a Taiwanese fishing boat, a defense official said Monday.

A Kidd-class warship and a Chengkung-class frigate will be dispatched to join the two frigates already patrolling the Bashi Channel, and they will be incorporated into a military exercise set for waters south of Taiwan on May 16, Deputy Defense Minister Andrew Yang said.

The frigates will be sent to participate in the exercise and protect Taiwanese fishermen operating in the area, Yang said before attending a hearing of the Legislature's Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee.

On Sunday, the Navy said it had dispatched a Lafayette-class frigate to help the Coast Guard Administration (CGA) fulfill its mission to protect Taiwanese fishermen. The CGA has three vessels patrolling the area at present.

In addition to the Lafayette-class frigate, the Navy said it has a Knox-class frigate regularly patrol the waters south of Taiwan.

The moves to beef up protection for the fishermen came after the Taiwanese boat, Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28, was strafed by a joint patrol of the Philippine Coast Guard and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources while operating in the overlapping economic zones of the two countries on May 9.

A 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman, Hung Shih-cheng, was shot dead in the incident.

The Taiwan government has condemned the attack by the Philippines and demanded an official apology.

Foreign Minister David Lin, who was also to attend the hearing, again described as "unacceptable" a statement on Sunday by Abigail Valte, a spokeswoman for the Philippine Presidential Office, because it did not contain a formal apology.

Valte issued a statement offering the Philippines' "deepest sympathies and condolences" to the family of the victim, and she noted that the Philippine envoy to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, had already offered his apologies to the fisherman's family in person.

But that did not satisfy Taiwan's government.

"In such a case, this kind of apology is not enough. We are asking for an official apology from their government to our government," Lin said, reiterating that Taiwan's four demands to the Philippines remain unchanged.

Taiwan is asking the Philippines to issue a formal apology, compensate the victim's family for its loss, investigate the incident and punish the perpetrators, and open fishery agreement talks with Taiwan as soon as possible.

If Manila does not issue an appropriate response by midnight Tuesday, the Taiwan government said it will suspend the processing of applications by Filipinos seeking employment in Taiwan, recall its representative to the Philippines and request that the Philippines' representative to Taiwan return to Manila.

Lin also downplayed concerns that the Philippine government is more focused on the Philippine general election, being held today, than on Taiwan's demands.

The Philippines is evaluating the matter carefully and is expected to make a clear response Tuesday, the foreign minister said."

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## p3avi8tor69

If Taiwan shoots first then Taiwan will be the aggressors. Genius. 

You shoot first and every nation on this planet except daddy Beijing will condemn Taiwan. Genius.

Taiwan shoots first and the U.S. congress will say, sheeyet, them Kuomintang are using American weapons to shoot another American ally. Time to reevaluate selling them our weapons.

But of course Ma and his buddies knows this so no shooting in the end unless the Pinoys shoot first. But Pinoy will not give you the satisfaction of shooting first. 

All this for display and chest thumping and one month later back to same old sheeyet.

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## Soryu

p3avi8tor69 said:


> If Taiwan shoots first then Taiwan will be the aggressors. Genius.
> 
> You shoot first and every nation on this planet except daddy Beijing will condemn Taiwan. Genius.
> 
> Taiwan shoots first and the U.S. congress will say, sheeyet, them Kuomintang are using American weapons to shoot another American ally. Time to reevaluate selling them our weapons.
> 
> But of course Ma and his buddies knows this so no shooting in the end unless the Pinoys shoot first. But Pinoy will not give you the satisfaction of shooting first.
> 
> All this for display and chest thumping and one month later back to same old sheeyet.



I think the same... Daddy still here, Taiwan just show off and done...


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## Psyops

Soryu said:


> I think the same... Daddy still here, Taiwan just show off and done...



They are your daddy too.

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## Soryu

Psyops said:


> They are your daddy too.


What did you mean!? my daddy was pass away... kid


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## ManilaBoy45

USAHawk785 said:


> The Philippines can never be touched. She is too precious and too strategically important in American Strategic interests for it to be touched by any foreign power. Any foreign power who dares touch the Philippines shall suffer the full might of the United States Navy, Air Force and the Army.
> 
> United States conducted the largest naval invasion in human history back in 1944 to retake the Philippines from the Japs. That illustrates the shear will of our resolve to preserve Philippine-American homeostasis.
> 
> Taiwan, because it is subservient to its American Daddy, will not do anything. Else it will be punished. As for China, LOL. Well, c'mon. The 7th Fleet will eradicate the PLAN from the face of the earth if need be.



Your Absolutely Right 100% ...


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## Martian2

p3avi8tor69 said:


> If Taiwan shoots first then Taiwan will be the aggressors. Genius.
> 
> You shoot first and every nation on this planet except daddy Beijing will condemn Taiwan. Genius.
> 
> Taiwan shoots first and the U.S. congress will say, sheeyet, them Kuomintang are using American weapons to shoot another American ally. Time to reevaluate selling them our weapons.
> 
> But of course Ma and his buddies knows this so no shooting in the end unless the Pinoys shoot first. But Pinoy will not give you the satisfaction of shooting first.
> 
> All this for display and chest thumping and one month later back to same old sheeyet.



*Taiwan can play Philippine government's excuse game*

Taiwan will claim the Philippine ships were ramming the Taiwanese naval ships. Taiwanese fired warning shots that happened to all hit the Philippine ships. Just like the 52 large-caliber shots by the Philippine coast guard that killed the unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.

See? It's easy to make excuses when the other side is dead.

Taiwan will also withhold all video evidence like the Philippine government. We can play this game too.

Also, if the United States irritates Taiwan then we'll buy Chinese J-10s, Type 054 frigates, etc. Who needs overpriced American weapons? By the way, the modern La Fayette frigate is French.

How would you like Taiwan to allow mainland China to build major submarine, naval, and airforce bases on Taiwan to project power throughout East Asia?

Let's put Chinese ASBMs (anti-ship ballistic missiles) on Taiwan to control the high seas one-thousand miles from Taiwan's coast in all directions.

I'm sure Congress will be very pleased to hear that. The United States is not the only country with leverage in the U.S.-Taiwan relationship.

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## Martian2

*"The U.S. understands Taiwan's approach on the matter"*

It looks like the United States has been kept fully informed that Taiwan intends to hold the Philippines accountable for the brutal murder of a defenseless and elderly Taiwanese fisherman.

----------

Philippine envoy to Taiwan back in Manila for 'important meeting' | Focus Taiwan News

"Philippine envoy to Taiwan back in Manila for 'important meeting'
By Elaine Hou
2013/05/13 15:22:25





The Philippines' representative Office in Taipei​
Taipei, May 13 (CNA) The Philippines' representative to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, has flown back to Manila for a meeting that is expected to discuss mounting tensions between the two countries after a Philippine attack on a Taiwanese fishing boat May 9.

Basilio "returned to the Philippines in order to attend a very important meeting," said Foreign Minister David Lin Monday.

Lin said that according to his understanding, the meeting, to be held Monday afternoon, will focus on issues related to the attack, including Taiwan's demands for a formal apology and compensation.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Taiwan's representative to the Philippines, Raymond Wang, will stay in close contact with Basilio for updates on the situation, Lin said at a hearing of the Legislature's Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee.

Fielding questions on the dispute by lawmakers, Lin said the Philippines is expected to give a clear response to Taiwan's demands Tuesday.

The diplomatic row comes after a Taiwanese boat, Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28, was strafed by a joint patrol of the Philippine Coast Guard and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources while operating in the overlapping economic zones of the two countries.

A 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman, Hung Shih-cheng, was shot dead in the incident.

Taiwan is asking the Philippines to issue a formal apology, compensate the victim's family for its loss, investigate the incident and punish the perpetrators, and open fishery agreement talks with Taiwan as soon as possible.

If Manila does not issue an appropriate response by midnight Tuesday, the Taiwan government will "immediately" suspend the processing of applications by Filipinos seeking employment in Taiwan and recall its representative to the Philippines, Lin said.

Basilio visited the family of the deceased fisherman Saturday and offered an apology and his condolences after the damaged boat was towed back to Pingtung County, Lin said, but he noted that Taiwan is still demanding an official apology from the Philippine government.

The foreign minister did not rule out the possibility that further action could be taken against the Philippines.

*Lin noted, meanwhile, that Taiwan has also been in touch with the United States on the incident and said the U.S. understands Taiwan's approach on the matter.*"

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## Martian2

*U.S. failure to immediately denounce Philippines has pushed Taiwan closer to China*

The United States has made a serious geopolitical mistake. The U.S. should have immediately and forcefully denounced the Philippine coast guard crime against humanity in murdering an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.

The logic is simple. The Philippines is a captive audience. The Philippines has no place to go.

The situation is different for Taiwan. If the Big Guy won't help us, perhaps we should turn to the other Big Guy.

----------

Vast majority for joint action: poll - CHINA - Globaltimes.cn

"Vast majority for joint action: poll
Global Times | 2013-5-13 0:53:01
By Global Times

*The majority of respondents from both the Chinese mainland and Taiwan agree that the two sides should cooperate to pressure the Philippines, which refuses to apologize after a Philippine navy vessel shot a Taiwanese fisherman dead on Thursday, a survey has found.

More than 92 percent of respondents from seven mainland cities are in favor of such cooperation, as compared with 68.7 percent from Taiwan*, where 21.2 percent expressed objections, according to a survey jointly conducted by the Global Poll Center under the Global Times and the Taiwan-based China Times Public Opinion Poll Center.

In terms of possible countermeasures, 61.4 percent of mainlanders are inclined to exert diplomatic pressure on the Philippines, followed by economic sanctions and a tourism boycott. Taiwan favored economic sanctions, such as rejecting Filipino laborers.

When asked if the Taiwan authorities are capable of maintaining fishermen's interests, 51.4 percent of mainland respondents held a negative attitude, shared by more than 49 percent of Taiwanese respondents. About 59 percent believe the mainland should continue to seek cooperation even if overtures are rejected.

In addition, 48.3 percent believe that a blow to the Philippines is conducive to solving the maritime disputes with Vietnam, Japan and other countries, while 16.5 percent think such action may prompt the US to further interfere with South China Sea issues."

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## Zero_wing

Go ahead then


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## Krueger

so this Philippine coast guard ship is almost the same size of the fishermen's boat. Couldn't imagine the impact if it was rammed.

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## tvsram1992

Martian2 said:


> 4. We are reaching the end of Chinese military modernization. In *19.5 years*, the PLA Navy should be strong enough to push the US Navy out of Asia.


Why so 19.5 years ?


----------



## Zero_wing

hahahahaha its other idiotic rant


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## Martian2

tvsram1992 said:


> Why so 19.5 years ?



*China's economy should pass the American economy in 2022*

According to the IMF, the American GDP for this year (2013) is projected at $16 trillion. The Chinese GDP is $9 trillion.

The American economy grows at 2% per year and the inflation rate is also 2% per year. Hence, annual American GDP growth is about 4%.

The Chinese economy will grow approximately 7% per year and the inflation rate is 3%. Furthermore, the Chinese currency Yuan is appreciating by about 3% on average against the American dollar. Hence, China's annual nominal GDP growth is 13% per year.

American GDP at end of 2022: $16.2 trillion * (1.04 ^ 9) = $23.06 trillion GDP

Chinese GDP at end of 2022: $9 trillion * (1.13 ^ 9) = $27 trillion GDP

Thus, we see China's GDP will be clearly larger than American GDP by the end of 2022 (which is 9.5 years away).

----------

The general rule of thumb is that it takes ten years for military power to catch up to economic power.

In other words, Chinese military power will start to grow massively after the Chinese economy becomes larger than the American economy. Most observers (using history as a guide), including the Pentagon, have agreed the Chinese military could surpass the U.S. technologically by 2033. Search Google and you can find the American think-tank articles.

In conclusion, the 19.5 years is a countdown. American military power in Asia is on the way out.

----------



Krueger said:


> so this Philippine coast guard ship is almost the same size of the fishermen's boat. Couldn't imagine the impact if it was rammed.



*The important distinction*

The Taiwanese fishermen have 52 large-caliber bullet holes in their boat and an unarmed elderly Taiwanese fisherman is dead.

The Philippine coast guard thugs have ZERO bullet hole in their boat and they are the killers of the unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.

That is the important distinction.

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## Leonhart

Martian2 said:


> *The important distinction*
> 
> The Taiwanese fishermen have 52 large-caliber bullet holes in their boat and an unarmed elderly Taiwanese fisherman is dead.
> 
> The Philippine coast guard thugs have ZERO bullet hole in their boat and they are the killers of the unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.
> 
> That is the important distinction.



Sadly, I don't think the Philippines will ever release the video of the occurrence. If this tragedy was on their side, you would bet the video would be out by now for all to see and condemn.

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## p3avi8tor69

Leonhart said:


> Sadly, I don't think the Philippines will ever release the video of the occurrence. If this tragedy was on their side, you would bet the video would be out by now for all to see and condemn.



That is also my suspicion.

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## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> *Taiwan can play Philippine government's excuse game*
> 
> Taiwan will claim the Philippine ships were ramming the Taiwanese naval ships. Taiwanese fired warning shots that happened to all hit the Philippine ships. Just like the 52 large-caliber shots by the Philippine coast guard that killed the unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.
> 
> See? It's easy to make excuses when the other side is dead.
> 
> Taiwan will also withhold all video evidence like the Philippine government. We can play this game too.
> 
> Also, if the United States irritates Taiwan then we'll buy Chinese J-10s, Type 054 frigates, etc. Who needs overpriced American weapons? By the way, the modern La Fayette frigate is French.
> 
> How would you like Taiwan to allow mainland China to build major submarine, naval, and airforce bases on Taiwan to project power throughout East Asia?
> 
> Let's put Chinese ASBMs (anti-ship ballistic missiles) on Taiwan to control the high seas one-thousand miles from Taiwan's coast in all directions.
> 
> I'm sure Congress will be very pleased to hear that. The United States is not the only country with leverage in the U.S.-Taiwan relationship.


Oh,u forgot that TW is just an US's dog ? And dog cant betray its boss or it will be killed 

If Tawain's president look for China's protection,then he will get killed,and US will simply find another US's dog for this position


----------



## longyi

NiceGuy said:


> Oh,u forgot that TW is just an US's dog ? And dog cant betray its boss or it will be killed
> 
> If Tawain's president look for China's protection,then he will get killed,and US will simply find another US's dog for this position





LOL how can you accuse someone to be a US dog while you are so passionately want to one yourself- by posting this just a few minutes ago: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...-military-news-discussion-22.html#post4286179

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## sonicbomb

Leonhart said:


> Sadly, I don't think the Philippines will ever release the video of the occurrence. If this tragedy was on their side, you would bet the video would be out by now for all to see and condemn.



very true , it's hard to believe their words when they refused to release the video to public .

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## NiceGuy

longyi said:


> LOL how can you accuse someone to be a US dog while you are so passionately want to one yourself- by posting this just a few minutes ago: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...-military-news-discussion-22.html#post4286179


We are US's partner,US cant overthorw our govt and set up pro-US regime in VN like what US can do in TW 



sonicbomb said:


> very true , it's hard to believe their words when they refused to release the video to public .


Then why should Phil release it ?China also refused to release the video of the incident in 2005 when.they killed unarmed VN's fishermen

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## longyi

NiceGuy said:


> We are US's partner,US cant overthorw our govt and set up pro-US regime in VN like what US can do in TW





Don't so sure. The US can sent in their perfect spies (VNCH or NGOs) and overthrow your government. Saigon will be the new capital.

(no more off topic)

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## Zero_wing

Well just because were bc with the midterm elections here does not mean we stop investigating can you people wait?


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## sonicbomb

NiceGuy said:


> We are US's partner,US cant overthorw our govt and set up pro-US regime in VN like what US can do in TW
> 
> 
> Then why should Phil release it ?China also refused to release the video of the incident in 2005 when.they killed unarmed VN's fishermen



in case you don't know China and Taiwan are different country , if you angry for your fellow VN's fisherman , shouldn't you felt the same way for the Taiwanese fisherman in similar tragedy? Both Taiwan and Vietnam were the victims while Philippines and China were the offenders don't they?


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## Zero_wing

Wow really since when did we became the bad guys here this people were stealing from us your just mad because your country's formally train rebels are now going around your country bad guys really?


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## USAHawk785

During the time of Marcos, most of the countries around the Philippines would have already been slapped silent. I wait for the day when our Philippine allies will rise again and become a regional power that they were born to be. Philippines has the potential to become a regional powerhouse.

As for Taiwan, it should be conquored and colonized by the Philippines. It can be part of the Greater Philippine Republic. 

Besides, the original Taiwanese were Austronesians / Malays and similar to the Dong Shan culture of Ifugao of Northern Philippines.

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## sonicbomb

Zero_wing said:


> Wow really since when did we became the bad guys here this people were stealing from us your just mad because your country's formally train rebels are now going around your country bad guys really?



ok first i need to make myself clear , it was a bad post , i was trying to make an example to stop people talking about other incident , i didn't conclude that Philippines nor China was totally wrong in both incident

As for those rebels ,they had been wiped out ,thanks for your consent , i'm tired of Filipinos kept saying Malaysia government trained the rebels against them, blamed Marcos for that, we were just one of the Islamic countries offered help to them because of the massacre of their people.


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## armchairPrivate

never mind


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## USAHawk785

Ang Dakilang Ubud-na-Malaking Emperyo at Kahariang ng Pilipinas

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## longyi

Taiwan sends warships to the trouble area and will confiscate PI ships


ROCN Kang Ding (Lafayette) FFG








ROCN Chi Yang (Knox)Class FFG






http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2013/05/13/2003562123

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## Leonhart

sonicbomb said:


> in case you don't know China and Taiwan are different country , if you angry for your fellow VN's fisherman , shouldn't you felt the same way for the Taiwanese fisherman in similar tragedy? Both Taiwan and Vietnam were the victims while Philippines and China were the offenders don't they?



That's what I've been wondering as well. Seems a lot of people here cannot differentiate between Taiwan and China. Pretty sad, considering Taiwan was the 2nd most industrialized nation in Asia after WWII (thanks in large part to Japan) and is currently one of the most charitable nations in Asia. To my knowledge, Taiwan donated the most out of any country to not only the 2008 Sichuan Earthquake in China, but also the 2011 T&#333;hoku earthquake in Japan. Considering how Taiwan and China are not on good terms, and also how small Taiwan is, this is pretty extraordinary. Taiwan also donated a huge amount in the immediate aftermath of Typhoon Pablos devastation in Mindanao, Philippines in 2011...including 15 automatic weather stations for enhanced weather forecasts. This is a tragedy that now, Philippines cannot show appreciation in return, but instead group Taiwan with the Chinese as if they are the villains.


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## sEoulman556

Wow, look at all these Taiwanese and Chinese advocating war with the Pinoys when it was clearly that Taiwanese fishing vessel's fault. Maybe you Taiwanese need to install GPS devices on your fishing vessels so you morons don't violate your fellow Asian's territorial waters. Omg, this just fcking reeks of incompetency.

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## NiceGuy

sonicbomb said:


> in case you don't know China and Taiwan are different country , if you angry for your fellow VN's fisherman , shouldn't you felt the same way for the Taiwanese fisherman in similar tragedy? Both Taiwan and Vietnam were the victims while Philippines and China were the offenders don't they?


Vietnam govt doesn't recognize TW is a country

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## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Vietnam govt doesn't recognize TW is a country



Nice boy, now your communist big brother China wanna teach the imperialist running dog a lesson, since these guys also harass your fishermen, thus you should not object against it.

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## Juice

Martian2 said:


> *Philippine government committed a war crime*
> 
> 1. The Taiwanese fishing boat did not ram a Philippine coast guard ship.
> 
> The evidence is as follows:
> 
> a. A small wooden fishing boat would have no effect on a large (and probably metallic) Philippine coast guard ship.
> 
> b. The Skipper of the Taiwanese fishing boat said he never tried to ram the much larger Philippine coast guard ship.
> 
> c. There isn't a single scratch on the bow of the Taiwanese fishing boat as seen in the photographs when it arrived in Taiwan.
> 
> Also, knowing that a small wooden ship will have no effect on a large metallic coast guard ship, you are not allowed to execute unarmed civilians at sea. You can arrest them, but not execute them. Execution of unarmed civilians is a war crime.
> 
> 2. Taiwan has never had a dispute with Russia. It is irrelevant and a sad attempt at diversion from the Philippine government's war crime against a helpless elderly Taiwanese fisherman, who was 164 miles south of Taiwan and within Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ (ie. exclusive economic zone).



Ramming is a technique born of frustration....many examples of small boat ramming larger (look for films of Soviet patrol vessels ramming American frigates on exercise....Black sea in particular)



Martian2 said:


> *I fully support Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou and the KMT*
> 
> 1. Taiwan is on the verge of war against the Philippines. We Taiwanese stand united.
> 
> 2. Taiwan has dispatched a La Fayette frigate to patrol the area where the Taiwanese fisherman was murdered by Philippine government coast guard terrorists, which is 164 miles south of Taiwan and within Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ (ie. exclusive economic zone).
> 
> 3. Taiwan does not need American political support or military help to smash the Philippine war criminals. We Taiwanese are resolute and will take care of this problem ourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An official waves to Taiwan naval Lafayette-class frigate (R) and Taiwan Coast Guard frigate as the vessels sail out of the port of Kaohsiung, southern Taiwan, in this handout photo from Taiwan Coast Guard, on Sunday. (Reuters)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of Taiwan's Lafayette-class frigates has been dispatched to patrol the area where the unarmed Taiwanese fisherman was killed by Philippine government coast guard thugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Officers on board a Taiwanese Coast Guard vessel
> 
> Source: Taiwan beefs up protection for fishermen in wake of fatal shooting | Latest | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS


There will be no war....but good to see Tiawanese have a sense of patriotism. (already knew the Filipinos did, wasn't sure if Tiawanese feelings had been coopted by the mainland yet)

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## Soryu

sonicbomb said:


> in case you don't know China and Taiwan are different country , if you angry for your fellow VN's fisherman , shouldn't you felt the same way for the Taiwanese fisherman in similar tragedy? Both Taiwan and Vietnam were the victims while Philippines and China were the offenders don't they?


Like I saw, Niceguy never said anything like he glad to see old fishmen died or something like, that's tragedy for his family.

Question in here that he want (also me): 
_ China action was not make a crime or anything serious to protest and country like Vietnam just want to make up situation and drag USA in SCS. So what's now!?

_ An inccident was happend and still wait a investigation (from Philippine), but both PRC and ROC so angry and want condemn Philippine, want apologize, want compensation ... and even a war (by hero warrior keybroad in here)

But in case of VN - China, China made up many excuse for their action: fire on Vietnamese vessel, killing Vietnamese fishing-men, cut off cable of Vietnam exploration ship ... because they considered Vietnam dare to step on their U-shape map, a map nobody recognized and so China can do anything she want ... lol.

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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nice boy, now your communist big brother China wanna teach the imperialist running dog a lesson, since these guys also harass your fishermen, thus you should not object against it.


we will enjoy coffee and watch ur coward and poor trained army make a nice comedy show in SCS(east sea)

Make sure that ur PLA won't pi$$ in their pants and run for their lives when facing with US-Phil's naval forces


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## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> we will enjoy coffee and watch ur coward and poor trained PLA make a nice comedy show in SCS(east sea)
> 
> Make sure that ur PLA won't **** in their pants and run for their lives when facing with US-Phil's naval forces



US won't risk the consequence of MAD for that sh!thole, and Philippines has no navy bro, but they can keep bullying your poor fishermen since your govt is too chicken to take this issue.


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## Soryu

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> US won't risk the consequence of MAD for that sh!thole, and Philippines has no navy bro, but they can keep bullying your poor fishermen since your govt is too chicken to take this issue.



So we will wait to see how you will press them in the corner and satisfy your chinese's angry ...


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## Martian2

Juice said:


> Ramming is a technique born of frustration....many examples of small boat ramming larger (look for films of Soviet patrol vessels ramming American frigates on exercise....Black sea in particular)



*Allegation of ramming is pure fiction*

1. The claim of ramming was after-the-fact fabrication to justify the hour-long chase and brutal killing of the Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine coast guard criminals.

2. The bow of the little Taiwanese boat showed not a single scratch. The paint is pristine.

3. A little wooden boat ramming a metallic coast guard boat will have no effect.

4. The skipper of the Taiwanese boat has stated he did not attempt to ram the Philippine coast guard ship.

5. The 52 large-caliber bullets fired by the Philippine coast guard criminals are not along the long bow-to-stern/longitudinal axis of the boat (which would be consistent with shooting a boat attempting to ram).

Instead, the shots perforated the little Taiwanese boat from the side. I've never heard a little wooden boat moving sideways to ram. Have you?

Thus, the ram excuse is total crap.

Finally, the Philippine government has a videotape of the crime. Let's see the massacre for ourselves. However, the Philippine government has made no indication of releasing the incriminating videotape.

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## Juice

Martian2 said:


> *Allegation of ramming is pure fiction*
> 
> 1. The claim of ramming was after-the-fact fabrication to justify the hour-long chase and brutal killing of the Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine coast guard criminals.
> 
> 2. The bow of the little Taiwanese boat showed not a single scratch. The paint is pristine.
> 
> 3. A little wooden boat ramming a metallic coast guard boat will have no effect.
> 
> 4. The skipper of the Taiwanese boat has stated he did not attempt to ram the Philippine coast guard ship.
> 
> 5. The 52 large-caliber bullets fired by the Philippine coast guard criminals are not along the long bow-to-stern axis of the boat (which would be consistent with shooting a boat attempting to ram). Instead, the shots perforate the little Taiwanese boat from the side. I've never heard a little wooden boat moving sideways to ram. Have you?
> 
> Thus, the ram excuse is total crap.


 there should be some evidence of ramming. Perhaps the shots were fired when the vessel turned towards the patrol boat? Still....a bit much on the force (easy to say since I was not in the field)


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## ChineseTiger1986

Soryu said:


> So we will wait to see how you will press them in the corner and satisfy your chinese's angry ...



Pinoy is frustated that China keeps humiliated them in the first two rounds of confrontation, now they are unleashing their frustration on China's little brother Taiwan like their punching bag, it is China they are looking for troubles, now the big China is here, what they gonna do?

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## Martian2

Juice said:


> there should be some evidence of ramming. Perhaps the shots were fired when the vessel turned towards the patrol boat? Still....a bit much on the force (easy to say since I was not in the field)



Give me a break. Now you're being silly and wasting my time.

The Taiwanese skipper of the boat said they were trying to run away from the hail of Philippine bullets for an hour. We see 52 large-caliber bullets sprayed all over the boat consistent with a long chase.

We know there was a long chase, because the Philippine coast guard thugs turned tail when the Taiwanese coast guard showed up.

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## Juice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Pinoy is frustated that China keeps humiliated them in the first two rounds of confrontation, now they are unleashing their frustration on our little brother Taiwan like their punching bag, it is China they are looking for troubles, now the big China is here, what they gonna do?


 Well, as neither China seems to be doing squat....not much they need to do.



Martian2 said:


> Give me a break. Now you're being silly and wasting my time.



Lol....wasting your time? When you guys do something besides bleat like sheep....say it then. (as an American....I am well acquainted with what concrete action looks like....attack an American ship....see what goes down)


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## Martian2

You're wasting my time, because your suggestion is utterly ridiculous.

You seem to be unaware of the basic facts of the Philippine coast guard massacre of an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.

If you have something to say, it has to be consistent with the known facts. Otherwise, you're wasting everyone's time with your ignorance.

----------

To be complete, I will answer the troll.

1. The side of the little Taiwanese boat show no collision damage. The paint (where not perforated by bullet holes) is also pristine.

2. If the Taiwanese boat had rammed the Philippine coast guard metallic boat, it would have suffered serious damage and would no longer be seaworthy. In other words, the little Taiwanese wooden boat would have most likely sunk on the spot. Thus, ramming is an idiotic excuse by the Philippine coast guard.

Also, if there had been a side collision then the Taiwanese boat would most likely have been captured by the Philippine coast guard boat.

What actually happened was that the Philippine coast guard ship approached the Taiwanese boat and started firing. The little Taiwanese boat tried to escape the hail of bullets for an hour until the Taiwanese coast guard showed up. That's the most likely scenario and it's consistent with the physical proof and the skipper's recollection.

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## Wholegrain

Excuse me, but the U-shape map is also Taiwan's map as well and I regard myself as Chinese.

I'm not a Hokkien myself and I have not been to the Philippines but I can guess how they perceive Taiwan as being Chinese, because the Chinese community in the Phillipines is made out of mostly Hokkien people, the majority of Taiwanese are also Hokkien and both Hokkiens in the Philippines and Taiwan have links to Fujian. Some families in Taiwan and the Philippines can trace their exact origin from which village they came from in China.

The infrastructure Japan built in Taiwan was not for Taiwan's benefit or industrialization, it was for Japan's exploitation of the island. China started modernizing Taiwan in the 1880s after the French invaders were defeated at Keelung. When Japan took over, it tried to assimilate the people into the Japanese nation by making them speak Japanese.

China also doesn't rely on the PLAN in its war plans against superior fleets. It relies on land to sea missles.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Wholegrain said:


> Excuse me, but the U-shape map is also Taiwan's map as well and I regard myself as Chinese.
> 
> I'm not a Hokkien myself and I have not been to the Philippines but I can guess how they perceive Taiwan as being Chinese, because the Chinese community in the Phillipines is made out of mostly Hokkien people, the majority of Taiwanese are also Hokkien and both Hokkiens in the Philippines and Taiwan have links to Fujian. Some families in Taiwan and the Philippines can trace their exact origin from which village they came from in China.
> 
> The infrastructure Japan built in Taiwan was not for Taiwan's benefit or industrialization, it was for Japan's exploitation of the island.
> 
> China also doesn't rely on the PLAN against America, it relies on land to sea missles.



There are many "Taiwanese" from southern Taiwan are likely having their true origin from Nippon, they are constantly calling Chinese as "&#25903;&#37027;", which is a Japanese racial slur against Chinese and Taiwanese.

Taiwan will be much cleaner without those anti-Chinese parasites.

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## Wholegrain

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> There are many Taiwanese from southern Taiwan are likely having their true origin from Nippon, they are constantly calling Chinese as "&#25903;&#37027;", which is a Japanese racial slur against Chinese and Taiwanese.
> 
> Taiwan will be much cleaner without those anti-Chinese parasites.



They are not from Japan they are just brainwashed. Even DPP members don't deny their ancestral village is in China.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Wholegrain said:


> They are not from Japan they are just brainwashed. Even DPP members don't deny their ancestral village is in China.



Some of these scums are even on Pinoy's side, just because China is strongly condemning the atrocities committed by Pinoy. Unbelievable.

Since Nippon has colonized Taiwan for 50 years, they must have some of their offsprings left in Taiwan, these parasites are born to hate China just like their twisted mind father.

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## p3avi8tor69

Like I said earlier Ma and his cohorts are all talk no action. Taiwanese government = no balls 


Sorry Martian they let you down.

Taipei waits for answer from Manila - Taipei Times

Taipei waits for answer from Manila
JAW-JAW NOT WAR-WAR:Minister of Foreign Affairs David Lin did not rule out the possibility of further sanctions, but said armed conflict was not on the table
By Shih Hsiu-chuan / Staff reporter

Taipei expects to hear from Manila by midnight today on four demands it made after a Taiwanese fisherman was shot dead by Philippine Coast Guard personnel last week.

Minister of Foreign Affairs David Lin (&#26519;&#27704;&#27138 told lawmakers yesterday that Philippine Representative to Taiwan Antonio Basilio has assured him that Malacanang Palace will have a formal response to the demands before the 72-hour ultimatum, issued on Saturday, expires.

Lin said Basilio promised him on Sunday night that &#8220;he would make the utmost efforts&#8221; to find a solution to the situation when he returned to his country.

According to a Central News Agency report from Manila, Philippine President Benigno Aquino III presided over a confidential meeting to discuss issues, including the incident, which Basilio attended.

Philippine coast Guard personnel on board a maritime surveillance vessel on Thursday last week attacked a Taiwanese fishing boat, the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28, killing Hung Shih-cheng (&#27946;&#30707;&#25104 and leaving the boat riddled with bullets.

President Ma Ying-jeou (&#39340;&#33521;&#20061 on Saturday demanded the Philippines apologize, compensate Hung&#8217;s family, investigate the incident and punish the perpetrators, as well as begin talks over a fisheries agreement as soon as possible.

Ma has threatened to freeze Philippine migrant workers&#8217; applications, recall Taiwan&#8217;s representative to the Philippines and expel Basilio if Manila fails to answer the demands in a positive manner.

&#8220;We will immediately impose the sanctions if we find the response from [Manila] to be unacceptable,&#8221; Lin said when questioned by lawmakers at a meeting of the legislature&#8217;s Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee.

Lin dismissed lawmakers&#8217; concerns that Basilio might not return to Taiwan if Manila rejected the demands, saying &#8220;It&#8217;s unlikely.&#8221;

Late last night, ministry spokesperson Anna Kao (&#39640;&#23433 said the ministry had learned that Basilio is scheduled to return to Taipei today.

In response to doubts expressed by lawmakers about the effectiveness of the threatened sanctions in getting the Philippines to agree to the demands, Lin said that they were solemn and serious requests that the Philippines had to respond to.

&#8220;We do not rule out additional sanctions,&#8221; Lin said, but *ruled out the possibility of armed conflict.*
*
Asked by lawmakers about the possibility of cooperation between Taiwan and China in protecting fishing boats in the disputed waters, Lin rejected the idea.
*
Lin said he &#8220;didn&#8217;t see this happening&#8221; because the Philippines has been intimidated by Beijing into upholding the &#8220;one China&#8221; principle and not talking with Taiwan about a fisheries agreement to settle disputes.

&#8220;The mainland [China] did not help us [in this regard],&#8221; Lin said.

At a separate setting, Benjamin Ho (&#20309;&#30331;&#29004, director-general of the ministry&#8217;s Department of East Asian and Pacific Affairs, said the government informed the US Department of State of the ultimatum before it was delivered.

On Sunday, Philippine Presidential Office deputy spokesperson Abigail Valte issued a statement expressing heartfelt sorrow over Hung&#8217;s death and extended sympathies and condolences to his family.

Valte said the Philippine government would conduct an &#8220;impartial, transparent and expeditious&#8221; investigation into the tragedy.

She said that the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28 was &#8220;one of the fishing vessels reportedly poaching in the area&#8221; and that the maritime control surveillance was carrying out its duty to combat illegal fishing within the maritime jurisdiction of the Philippine

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## NiceGuy

> We do not rule out additional sanctions, Lin said, but ruled out the possibility of armed conflict.
> 
> Asked by lawmakers about the possibility of cooperation between Taiwan and China in protecting fishing boats in the disputed waters, Lin rejected the idea.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...d-fisherman-philippines-17.html#ixzz2TFVOECn9


Good US's dog. very loyal and obedient to the boss

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## Wholegrain

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Some of these scums are even on Pinoy's side, just because China is strongly condemning the atrocities committed by Pinoy. Unbelievable.
> 
> Since Nippon has colonized Taiwan for 50 years, they must have some of their offsprings left in Taiwan, these parasites are born to hate China just like their twisted mind father.



I know some of those people and they do not have any Japanese blood. They are fully aware that their ancestry is 100% Chinese, they are just a testament to how warped the mind can become.

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## HongWu

LOL at the Chinese members taking Taiwan's side on this. Taiwan is a hostile, non-Chinese state founded on stolen Chinese land. We will take back the land and drive out so called Taiwanese. Let the Taiwanese and Filipinos kill each other. China does not have a dog in this fight.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

HongWu said:


> LOL at the Chinese members taking Taiwan's side on this. Taiwan is a hostile, non-Chinese state founded on stolen Chinese land. We will take back the land and drive out so called Taiwanese. Let the Taiwanese and Filipinos kill each other. China does not have a dog in this fight.



Isn't Taiwan considered by the world as well as CCP PRC's territory?


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## Wholegrain

HongWu said:


> LOL at the Chinese members taking Taiwan's side on this. Taiwan is a hostile, non-Chinese state founded on stolen Chinese land. We will take back the land and drive out so called Taiwanese. Let the Taiwanese and Filipinos kill each other. China does not have a dog in this fight.



You must be an anti China troll in disguise because I cannot imagine any Chinese person saying something this stupid.

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## HongWu

Syama Ayas said:


> Isn't Taiwan considered by the world as well as CCP PRC's territory?


Up until little Chiang died in 1988, Taiwan was very much Republic of China. You had anti-Japanese heros like Sun Liren and Zhang Xueliang living there.

25 years after, there is nothing left of ROC identity. Now, Republic of Taiwan is ethnically Chinese, culturally Japanese and politically America's dog. Chinese should host no illusions. War is absolutely necessary to take back our beautiful Formosa island from Republic of Taiwan.

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## Bob Ong

In any situation, it's legal to kill those who tresspass your home or territory as long as they threatened you. 






Our coast guard aren't that stupid to shoot those fishermen, just because they are there. They even rescued them in the past. THEY TRIED TO RAM THE COAST GUARD BOAT, and ramming a boat isn't a joke, once you capsized in the middle of the sea, you're dead. That's why they shot them. So get over it.

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## anonymous3

Zero_wing said:


> Philippine Coast Guard officials said the Taiwanese boat may have tried to ram their vessel.
> 
> See this from a fellow Taiwanese face it the Moron President of Taiwan



Please note the "may have" from your own sentence. If you could have applied common sense to your comments before replying, a small fibreglass boat is very unlikely to even think about attempting to ram a small warship. Also, due to restricted movement of a mounted 50 cal. machine gun, it would be impossible to have shot the taiwanese fishing vessel at such short distance. 

The taiwanese fishing vessel was not in Philippines territory. Even if we assume it was, it is irresponsible for a warship to utilize such violent force on a innocent unarmed fishing boat.

Isn't it an irony that you are criticizing our president? Let me just ask you, how good was your last few presidents? I think you can answer this for yourself. Get your arrogant sorry *** off the internet and go learn some english. No one can understand wh



Zero_wing said:


> i wanna see mainlanders do works like that oh wait they just steal or copy or both


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## anonymous3

NiceGuy said:


> we will enjoy coffee and watch ur coward and poor trained army make a nice comedy show in SCS(east sea)
> 
> Make sure that ur PLA won't pi$$ in their pants and run for their lives when facing with US-Phil's naval forces



It is true that if the US is involved, the ROC navy holds a very unlikely chance to win against a US-Phil co-op. However, like ChineseTiger1986's reply, Philippines' navy would not be able to respond to ANY form of aggressive acts. Not even in possession of missile capable warships, using old american coast guard ships. You call that a navy?


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## chinapakistan

The banana country goverment spokesman was laughing when she was talking about this bloodshed. Maybe she ate too much banana to make her crazy. 

video Time stamp: 03:38


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## ChinaToday

NiceGuy said:


> we will enjoy coffee and watch ur coward and poor trained army make a nice comedy show in SCS(east sea)
> 
> Make sure that ur PLA won't pi$$ in their pants and run for their lives when facing with US-Phil's naval forces



pretty much agreed your stone age country can only watch what else can a failed state colonised by many countries do


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## Wholegrain

HongWu said:


> Up until little Chiang died in 1988, Taiwan was very much Republic of China. You had anti-Japanese heros like Sun Liren and Zhang Xueliang living there.
> 
> 25 years after, there is nothing left of ROC identity. Now, Republic of Taiwan is ethnically Chinese, culturally Japanese and politically America's dog. Chinese should host no illusions. War is absolutely necessary to take back our beautiful Formosa island from Republic of Taiwan.



Sun Liren was an agent for the American CIA and worked to overthrow Chiang to establish a puppet regime on Taiwan. That's why he was arrested. He was trained by the American military in America and worked mostly for the Americans and British in Burma during the war. I wouldn't trust myself if I went to military school in America and then went to Taiwan to work in the government, but I'm just getting an higher education here.

Taiwan is not culturally Japanese. The people of Taiwan know who they are and don't need others to speak for them. All of us know we are Chinese and we don't want war because our ancestors homes lie accross the strait, our brothers live accross the strait and we are the same people.


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## Pinoy

Stupid Taiwanese style

1. Create scenarios
2. Play the drama queen
3. Make an undisputed area, disputed
4. Demand fishing rights

They can only blame themselves for illegally entering PH's territorial sea, trying to ram a PH boat, and calling back-up goons.


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## ChinaToday

kick out all barbaric uncivilised pinoys in taiwan



Pinoy said:


> Stupid Taiwanese style
> 
> 1. Create scenarios
> 2. Play the drama queen
> 3. Make an undisputed area, disputed
> 4. Demand fishing rights
> 
> They can only blame themselves for illegally entering PH's territorial sea, trying to ram a PH boat, and calling back-up goons.



Taiwanese style is a lot smarter than banana pinoys style forgot you got slaughter by malasia in sabu few weeks ago?

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## agnosticpunjabi

Taiwan's territorial 'claims' are "outrageously ambitious" according to Stratfor

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## ChinaToday

agnosticpunjabi said:


> Taiwan's territorial 'claims' are "outrageously ambitious" according to Stratfor



who is stratfor


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## Pinoy

ChinaToday said:


> kick out all barbaric uncivilised pinoys in taiwan
> 
> Taiwanese style is a lot smarter than banana pinoys style forgot you got slaughter by malasia in sabu few weeks ago?


Our relations to Malaysia will continue to be strong despite the Sabah issue. We are part of ASEAN family and we will settle our own problem without threatening our neighbors by force.

Unlike your country which just all about posturing, bluffing and nothing more.

Look at Taiwan, for 40+ years China has been ranting about using nukes, missiles, etc if Taiwan will not reunite back to China and for 40+ yrs Taiwan has been daring China to just do it. LMAO

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## Wholegrain

agnosticpunjabi said:


> Taiwan's territorial 'claims' are "outrageously ambitious" according to Stratfor



Taiwan's claims in the South China Sea is identical to mainland China's, and have been in place since the past sixty years. Taiwan claimed those islands before Vietnam and the Philippines were independent countries.

The people at stratfor are ignorant and probably think Taiwan just started claiming those islands within the past few years. Taiwan clearly drew an eleven dotted line encircling the entire Spratly and Paracel chains in the 1940s.

The Philippines inherited their status from America's rule, and America did not claimed the Spratly islands.


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## Pinoy

Wholegrain said:


> Taiwan's claims in the South China Sea is identical to mainland China's, and have been in place since the past sixty years. Taiwan claimed those islands before Vietnam and the Philippines were independent countries.
> 
> The people at stratfor are ignorant and probably think Taiwan just started claiming those islands within the past few years. Taiwan clearly drew an eleven dotted line encircling the entire Spratly and Paracel chains in the 1940s.
> 
> The Philippines inherited their status from America's rule, and America did not claimed the Spratly islands.


China and Taiwan both claim the South China Sea territories based on fake history. As we all know Chinese are good in reinventing history because they lack a solid foundation about their claims.

China and Taiwan are still technically at war so neither one of them can absolutely claim the South China Sea territories. So it's important therefore for both parties to just conclude their unfinished Chinese Revolution once and for all.

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## HongWu

Wholegrain said:


> Sun Liren was an agent for the American CIA and worked to overthrow Chiang to establish a puppet regime on Taiwan. That's why he was arrested. He was trained by the American military in America and worked mostly for the Americans and British in Burma during the war. I wouldn't trust myself if I went to military school in America and then went to Taiwan to work in the government, but I'm just getting an higher education here.
> 
> Taiwan is not culturally Japanese. The people of Taiwan know who they are and don't need others to speak for them. All of us know we are Chinese and we don't want war because our ancestors homes lie accross the strait, our brothers live accross the strait and we are the same people.


Wrong. Taiwan's enemy is across the strait. Taiwanese feel good being obedient to Japan and America because they feel inferior from being Chinese. Basically they are Wang Jingwei types.


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## Wholegrain

HongWu said:


> Wrong. Taiwan's enemy is across the strait. Taiwanese feel good being obedient to Japan and America because they feel inferior from being Chinese. Basically they are Wang Jingguo types.



It's Wang Jingwei not Wang Jingguo, thanks for exposing your ineptitude. 

I looked at your previous posts and I'm getting the feeling I'm lookin at a living example of Poe's law.


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## Zero_wing

anonymous3 said:


> Please note the "may have" from your own sentence. If you could have applied common sense to your comments before replying, a small fibreglass boat is very unlikely to even think about attempting to ram a small warship. Also, due to restricted movement of a mounted 50 cal. machine gun, it would be impossible to have shot the taiwanese fishing vessel at such short distance.
> 
> The taiwanese fishing vessel was not in Philippines territory. Even if we assume it was, it is irresponsible for a warship to utilize such violent force on a innocent unarmed fishing boat.
> 
> Isn't it an irony that you are criticizing our president? Let me just ask you, how good was your last few presidents? I think you can answer this for yourself. Get your arrogant sorry *** off the internet and go learn some english. No one can understand wh



Oh please you people don't even know your own borders do you even know what an Archipelago is? your island country we are a group of islands you have no bigger EZZ hack this not an EZZ anymore its waters near i mean the nearest Philippine Island is 80 miles away? its an insult to people you stealing from in terms of natural resources and our conservation efforts we are protecting our own we sympathized the death of a human being but still the facts remain he try to ram a coast guard vessel its a stupid move its proven that ramming ships are popular among chinese vessels so don't give me that b.s Sir and please really you tell you can't understand my post while you just reply to it how arrogantly b.s hence think before you type and please ma popularity has decline he's just capitalizing on this issue and the mainland to source with taiwan has had more fuel to fire? because they know the Philippines does not have a strong military to defend itself but it does not mean we not enforce our laws and protect our islands i think the VP should take over because he has advocated for a peaceful resolutions to the problem than escalate this, Ma should be impeach for mental issue. face it your wrong your wrong now your wrong if you call for war because the world will see this as bullying of stronger states man i can't wait until our new weapons arrived here our current forces just can't people like you in check. 

This ridiculous really you wrong us and your demanding this man their is something wrong here



Wholegrain said:


> Taiwan's claims in the South China Sea is identical to mainland China's, and have been in place since the past sixty years. Taiwan claimed those islands before Vietnam and the Philippines were independent countries.
> 
> The people at stratfor are ignorant and probably think Taiwan just started claiming those islands within the past few years. Taiwan clearly drew an eleven dotted line encircling the entire Spratly and Paracel chains in the 1940s.
> 
> The Philippines inherited their status from America's rule, and America did not claimed the Spratly islands.



See typically racist and ignorant


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## ChineseTiger1986

HongWu said:


> LOL at the Chinese members taking Taiwan's side on this. Taiwan is a hostile, non-Chinese state founded on stolen Chinese land. We will take back the land and drive out so called Taiwanese. Let the Taiwanese and Filipinos kill each other. China does not have a dog in this fight.



We despise both KMT and DPP, who are the slaves of USA, but their fishermen favor PRC over ROC, although it is for their own benefit, but it is still good as they do recognize the power of PRC.


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## Zero_wing

Fishingboat Shooting Incident: Is Taiwan Over-reacting?
Since the shooting incident involving a Taiwanese fishing boat and a Philippine law enforcement boat, Taiwan has been in a rage to "bring justice" to the death of one of its fisherman. In the meantime, everything seems normal on the Philippine side, elections is has just been concluded and all politicians are more concerned on the vote counting than anything else.

The Taiwanese fishing boat Guang Ta Hsin 28

BFAR patrol boat MCS-3001, jointly manned by PCG & BFAR crew

The Taiwanese are insisting that the Philippines do three things, The three demands are:
1. make a public formal apology for the "murder" of their fisherman;
2. speed-up of investigations and punishment for the perpetrators;
3. pay compensation to the family of the dead fisherman.

Other than that, they also demand the Philippines to enter into talks with Taiwan regarding fishing rights on overlapping EEZs.

So far the Philippine response is that:
1. they sympathize with the fisherman's death, but no apology is required;
2. Taiwan should not make matters worse;

Taiwan's 72-hour ultimatum ends this midnight, and if their demands are not met, they will will freeze hiring of Filipino workers and use their economic superiority against the Philippines. 

1. Setting the EEZ Boundaries

According to Searoundus.org, blue color shows Taiwan's EEZ. The green color shows disputed EEZ. The incident happened outside Taiwan's EEZ if based on this photo.

It should be noted that since Taiwan is not recognized as an independent country by the United Nations, they are not signatory of the UNCLOS although the Philippines adheres to this international agreement as a UN signatory.


Following laws on EEZ, the overlap of two country's EEZ will require both countries to agree on the boundary. So far it appears that both countries have not made any agreement on the boundary of their EEZ. 

But most sources on EEZ show that the accepted boundary of both country's EEZ is somewhere mid-way of the overlap, or midway of Orchid Island (Taiwan) and Mavudis Island (Philippines). Basing on this, the general EEZ boundary should be within the middle of Bashi Channel.


2. Location of Incident:

The Taiwanese boat crew insist that they did not enter Philippine jurisdiction area, while the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) - Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) joint crew insist that they were inside their jurisdiction. 

Philippines' Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) Director Asis Perez points at the monitor the exact location where Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) intercepted 4 Taiwanese fishing vessels at 43 NM east of Balintang Island, Luzon Strait, during a news conference in Manila May 10, 2013.
(caption and photo from Reuters)

On the Philippine side, the BFAR reported that 4 Taiwanese fishing boats were intercepted by BFAR boat 43nmi east of Balintan Island, well within the Philippine side of the EEZ boundary. Philippine news reports all point to 170nmi from Taiwan southernmost point.

An illustration with Chinese caption from News365 (China)
(photo posted by McKoyzz@PDFF)
Taiwanese and Chinese sources agree that the boats were operating 164nmi to 180nmi from Taiwan's southmost tip at Erluanbi. A recent report from Taiwan's Coast Guard Administration (CGA) also points the incident to be outside Taiwan's "control border". Below is the said report, from http://www.cga.gov.tw/GipOpen/wSite/public/Attachment/f1368153033684.pdf


(Translation in English):

Boat Operation:
Time: 05.00
Coordinate: 19' 50" N; 123' 24" E
10 nm outside Taiwan control border

Incident:
Time: 09.45
Coordinate: 19' 58" N; 122' 58" E
1.8 nm outside Taiwan control border

Incident Reported to Taiwan Authority:
Time: 13.04
Coordinate: 20' 07" N; 123' 01" E
5 nm insider Taiwan control border

Take note that according to Taiwan's CGA, the Taiwanese control border is close to the northern-most island of Batanes group of islands rather than further north in the middle of the Bashi Channel. 
-----------

Foreign news sources like BBC reported the location as 170nmi from Taiwan, similar to most Philippine sources.

An illustration from AFP shows the incident happened at the Balintang Channel, or inside Philippine EEZ.
Judging from these compilation from Philippine, Taiwanese and 3rd country sources, it is generally accepted that the Taiwanese boats were indeed discovered well inside Philippine jurisdiction. 


3. The Shooting Incident

Using a combination of Taiwan's CGA report and Philippine Coast Guard sources, it appears that 4 Taiwanese fishing boats were spotted by BFAR patrol boat MCS-3001 on May 9, 2013 at around 5:00AM. The boats were hailed and approached by MCS-3001 for boarding and inspection. But instead of stopping to be boarded, all 4 boats moved away, towards Taiwan's direction. 

A chase ensued for more than 4 hours, with the BFAR-PCG boat giving warnings to stop using alarms or sirens, and loudspeaker annoucements. The Philippine boat made several attempts to board one of the boats but while doing so other fishing boats attempt to ram the Philippine boat. They were able to avoid collision in all those instances. This chase went on until around 9:30AM when the BFAR-PCG boat made warning shots for them to stop, but the 4 fishing boats did not heed the warning and instead continue to move away.

Around 9:40AM, the Philippine boat decided to disable the machinery of one of the fishing boats, the Guang Ta Hsin 28, by shooting at its engine room. Several shots were made using its on-board machine gun, hitting the fishing boat in several areas. One of the bullets hit the neck of 65-year old Mr. Huang Shih-Cheng who was staying in the engine room of the fishing boat, killing him in the process.

The boats continued to press on until Taiwanese CGA vessels meet them to escort back to Taiwan.


According to the son of the dead fisherman, they did not cross waters of Philippine jurisdiction, and that no warning shots were made by the Philippine group.

4. Taiwanese and Philippine Government Actions:

Taiwanese and Chinese media were quick to release news reports on the incident, initially accusing the Philippine Navy, while the Philippine side initially used these reports while awaiting for confirmation from the Philippine Government. The Philippine Navy later denied being involved, later on the Philippine Coast Guard admitted that they did indeed shot the Taiwanese fishing boat.

Taiwan later on released a 72-hour ultimatum demanding for a Philippine apology and action against the PCG-BFAR crew of MCS-3001, which ends at 12:00 midnight today. Philippine officials said they sympathize the death of Mr. Huang but no apology is expected to be given. President Aquino asked the Taiwanese government to calm on the incident while investigations are ongoing. 

With the deadline of the ultimatum nearing, the Philippine government announced that they are looking for possible alternative markets for Philippine labor in case of a clampdown in Taiwan. Taiwan announced to hold military exercises at the "overlapping" EEZ as a show of strength, with strong words indicating that the Philippine Navy is more than a match for their naval capability.

There are no major reactions from other countries, with their common ally, the United States, not making any condemnation remarks against the Philippines.

By around 3:00PM of May 14, the Philippine government imposed a news blackout regarding the issue. There were also reports from Filipino workers in Taiwan of being physically hurt by Taiwanese citizens especially near port areas.

A note from one of the OFWs in Taiwan appealing for restraint and assistance. Left side of the note shows the instructions from employment agency to avoid public exposure.
(photo from Facebook)

5. MaxDefense Opinion on what the Philippines should do:

MaxDefense (MD) believes that all actions made by the Taiwanese are over-reactions only, and is made by their government due to mounting pressure from the political opposition and the citizenry. It would be bad for the political careers of Taiwanese officials to stay mum and do nothing. 

MD believes that the Philippine government is aware and understands the Taiwanese government's actions, and its non-compliance to Taiwan's demands is a move that we at MD agrees.

As for the shooting, MD wonders - a more than 4-hour chase to reach Taiwan's control area at possibly high speed means that the Taiwanese are indeed deep inside Philippine waters. So the BFAR-PCG is indeed in the right place at the right time when they saw the Taiwanese flotilla.

The Philippines should not bow down to Taiwan's demands due to the following reasons:

1. If it believes that what the PCG-BFAR team did was necessary. Although bigger than the fishing boats, ramming of the patrol boat while being hailed to halt is itself a show of disrespect to Philippine law enforcement and might be an evidence of guilt. Also, the patrol boat captain may have thought of his ship and crew's safety first above all, which is the right thing to do. Shooting the fishing boat's machinery is a way of stopping a runaway suspect, it just happened that somebody was in there who unfortunately died.

2. To maintain integrity on our territorial jurisdiction. Apologizing to the Taiwanese will mean accepting that they were indeed correct, and agreeing that they were inside disputed waters. The Taiwanese can also dispute the sovereign rights of the Philippines in the Balabac Channel and the Batanes group of islands if the Philippines agree to apologize, and further claims of Taiwan to Batanes and the EEZ will strengthen in the process.

3. Philippine pride and prestige is at stake here. There were instances that South Korea, Japan, and Russia did not apologize to China when they shot Chinese fishing boats operating in their jurisdictions. Should the Philippines apologize, it will only make it appear weak and can be bullied by its neighbors.

4. The Philippines will lose some, but so is Taiwan. The labor market for the Philippines may lessen and become less attractive, forcing many Filipinos to leave their jobs there to come back home. They might be jobless, but they can find work again either in the Philippines or in another country. Taiwan will lose cheap and english-proficient workers in the process, and this will affect their manufacturing industry.

5. A change in political strategy when dealing with neighbors will disrupt the usual expected "bow-down" reply streak of the Philippine government. This would be a good start in imposing the Philippines' foreign policies as well to other countries. Maybe this would be the start of an "upgrade" of perception on the Philippine foreign relations scene.

Other points that can be learned from this incident for the Philippines:

1. The Philippines has to put territorial control and integrity with utmost importance, and strict enforcement of its laws and jurisdiction must become a part of its long term national strategy and policy.

2. The importance of supporting its armed forces and civilian maritime law enforcement agencies. The Philippine government must put national defense in its top priority, be given support and budget to modernize and up-arm. For its size, MD believes that the Philippine military is manpower-short and poorly equipped for its economic capacity and population.

3. The Philippine government must strive hard to make further reforms in its economic policies. It should be less dependent on OFW remittances and instead diversify its economy. This includes more in-country industry and jobs for its citizens to minimize the need to send workers to other countries like Taiwan.

4. At least as early as now, the Philippines can show to the world that it can stand on its own without the need to appease its neighbors to survive and continue. Bowing down to Taiwan and losing its pride now will not bring back the lost pride, but this issue will fade and the Philippines can save face by surviving and knowing its neighbors well.

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## USAHawk785

NiceGuy said:


> Good US's dog. very loyal and obedient to the boss



Like I said before, when Big American Daddy says jump, Taiwan will say, "How high?!?!"

When Big American Daddy says, "Kiss me", Taiwan will say, "Where?"

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## HongWu

Wholegrain said:


> It's Wang Jingwei not Wang Jingguo, thanks for exposing your ineptitude.
> 
> I looked at your previous posts and I'm getting the feeling I'm lookin at a living example of Poe's law.


Yes I meant Wang Jingwei. It was late and I had a long day.

*Anyway, you have hello kitty as your avatar and you say Taiwanese are not culturally Japanese?*


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## Wholegrain

HongWu said:


> Yes I meant Wang Jingwei. It was late and I had a long day.
> 
> *Anyway, you have hello kitty as your avatar and you say Taiwanese are not culturally Japanese?*



The hello kitty picture is one of the avatars the forum offers, I don't watch hello kitty or own any hello kitty products.


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## shuttler

USAHawk785 said:


> Like I said before, when Big American Daddy says jump, Taiwan will say, "How high?!?!"
> 
> When Big American Daddy says, "Kiss me", Taiwan will say, "Where?"



Taiwanese talk to the yankies: "suck this up your arse"
yankies say: "deeper, and we have more than one hole to fill"

Taiwan | Office of the United States Trade Representative





72-hour Utimatum expires.

Sanction on!

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## Bob Ong

To Chinese and Taiwanese here's what you're waiting for. Enjoy


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## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> To Chinese and Taiwanese here's what you're waiting for. Enjoy



a lame and disrepectful letter.

the news says the Taiwanese authority has rejected it

First sanction on

There is another ultimatum issued to the Pinoy government to respond or otherwise the next sanction will be more stringent and it will cover more areas


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## Bob Ong

^ Who cares if they sanction us? Don't pull out the Taiwan dependence card - it ain't work on the Philippines.

Taiwan needs us more than we need them. Stupid Taiwanese

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## Bob Ong

shuttler said:


> a lame and disrepectful letter.


it was still a win-win compromise. We have expressed regrets and have not bowed down completely.

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## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> it was still a win-win compromise. We have expressed regrets and have not bowed down completely.



the first sanction is on following the Taiwanese rejection of the Pinoy government's response

let's see how the case unfold. It is just the appetizer.


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## Snomannen

Bob Ong said:


> ^ Who cares if they sanction us? Don't pull out the Taiwan dependence card - it ain't work on the Philippines.
> 
> Taiwan needs us more than we need them. Stupid Taiwanese



And why don't you people leave and keep earning $$ from stupid Taiwanese as foreign workers and maids.


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## Bob Ong

shuttler said:


> the first sanction is on following the Taiwanese rejection of the Pinoy government's response
> 
> let's see how the case unfold. It is just the appetizer.


We will never give in to blackmail. Ok let's see


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## Snomannen

If the Philippines is not considering what they have done is wrong, they would not have lied about the tiny unarmed little ship was so brave that it attempted to crash a big armed ship. Also they never mention that there was not even a shoot, but a strafe. Not to mention there wasn't even a warning


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## Bob Ong

KirovAirship said:


> And why don't you people leave and keep earning $$ from stupid Taiwanese as foreign workers and maids.


same feather with the Chinese. I don't care if they freeze hiring our workers. We can survive without them anyways. Taiwanese have no morals, demand an apology after trespassing and tried ramming their boats to ours? They are just as barbaric as mainland China. Go ahead and escalate tension .


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## Snomannen

Bob Ong said:


> same feather with the Chinese. I don't care if they freeze hiring our workers. We can survive without them anyways. Taiwanese have no morals, demand an apology after trespassing and tried ramming their boats to ours? They are just as barbaric as mainland China. Go ahead and escalate tension .



Yeah yeah you can keep sending maids around the world and claim that the world need us more than we need the world. None can survive without you people's manpower. Moreover HK and Macao people do surely need you people to clean up their washrooms

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## Bob Ong

KirovAirship said:


> If the Philippines is not considering what they have done is wrong, they would not have lied about the tiny unarmed little ship was so brave that it attempted to crash a big armed ship. Also they never mention that there was not even a shoot, but a strafe. Not to mention there wasn't even a warning


The shooting of the fisherman was unintentional because the purpose of our coast guard was to disable the engine of the boat to stop it from escaping. Those fishermen defied the authorities to stop and be searched. Why did they not submit to be searched? Did they have illegal drugs, contraband, or endangered species aboard? are they afraid because they know they are in our waters?


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## sonicbomb

love how Filipinos believe whatever their government feed them , especially with the corrupted situation there , if the coast guard did nothing wrong in the incident , you would expect they had release their recording video and tell Taiwan to stfu

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## Snomannen

Bob Ong said:


> The shooting of the fisherman was unintentional because the purpose of our coast guard was to disable the engine of the boat to stop it from escaping. Those fishermen defied the authorities to stop and be searched. Why did they not submit to be searched? Did they have illegal drugs, contraband, or endangered species aboard? are they afraid because they know they are in our waters?



Oh another version of the story? Which one is the true one. Wasn't the tiny little attempted to punch your ship so you felt dangerous and strafed the heck out of the dangerous old man?


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## faithfulguy

sonicbomb said:


> love how Filipinos believe whatever their government feed them , especially with the corrupted situation there , if the coast guard did nothing wrong in the incident , you would expect they had release their recording video and tell Taiwan to stfu



Unless they fabricated the video, the video would show something different from what they claimed. This time, they are busted.


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## Bob Ong

KirovAirship said:


> Yeah yeah you can keep sending maids around the world and claim that the world need us more than we need the world. None can survive without you people's manpower. Moreover HK and Macao people do surely need you people to clean up their washrooms


whose being racist now? you can say what you want anyway, we're not going to vow down with their demands


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## Snomannen

By the way, there were some Filipino selling drugs in our tiny peaceful city and unfortunately they were under arrested, and there are some rooms in jail are ready for them. I suppose you will be fine if we catch them at the first minute and immediately put a bullet in their heads .



Bob Ong said:


> whose being racist now? you can say what you want anyway, we're not going to vow down with their demands



Who said stupid Taiwanese earlier. I don't even know where did you gain your proud, insult your "Sirs/Madams" and think you are better than them.


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## Bob Ong

KirovAirship said:


> Oh another version of the story? Which one is the true one. Wasn't the tiny little attempted to punch your ship so you felt dangerous and strafed the heck out of the dangerous old man?


nah its still the same. if you don't believe then you just have to wait for the result of full investigation.

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## Snomannen

faithfulguy said:


> Unless they fabricated the video, the video would show something different from what they claimed. This time, they are busted.



One thing for sure is that someone is being diffident.
If the old man was arrested but not strafed to the heaven, I think that your government would have said nothing since it was their ship who crosses the line. 
But in this situation the liar was the one who shot the gun and made up the "dangerous" story. If you think you were right, why would you lied.


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## Bob Ong

KirovAirship said:


> By the way, there were some *Filipino stealing drugs in our tiny peaceful city *and unfortunately they were under arrested, and there are some rooms in jail are ready for them. I suppose you will be fine if we catch them at the first minute and immediately put a bullet in their heads .
> 
> 
> Who said stupid Taiwanese earlier. I don't even know where did you gain your proud, insult your "Sirs/Madams" and think you are better than them.


You actually flooded the Philippines not only substandard/fake products but also illegal drugs 

Anyway back to the topic: if Taiwan really insists on what they want, they should first declare independence and the Philippines will treat them as a country.

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## Snomannen

Bob Ong said:


> nah its still the same. if you don't believe then you just have to wait for the result of full investigation.




Yeah they are the same of course, the same lie indeed. 
A kid makes up different version of stories and dare to tell people that "balh blah blah it's still the same"
How mature.


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## Foo_Fighter

Sanchez said:


> You must be a hungry hindu who hasn't had urxne dose nor a rapist pleasure today!




What's up with words on a country and religion mate. I am sure Andross is an immature kid... but I am sure you are not. Don't get trolled easily, they are good at it


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## Bob Ong

KirovAirship said:


> Yeah they are the same of course, the same lie indeed.
> A kid makes up different version of stories and dare to tell people that "balh blah blah it's still the same"
> How mature.


creating LIES is actually China's masterpiece


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## Snomannen

Bob Ong said:


> You actually flooded the Philippines not only substandard/fake products but also illegal drugs
> 
> Anyway back to the topic: if Taiwan really insists on what they want, they should first declare independence and the Philippines will treat them as a country.



Ouch damn it it was *selling *not "*stealing*", wrong word.
And Chinese never forced you to buy their "substandard/fake products", why are you blaming China for your own decision and choice. 

Oh good take advantage of other people's misfortune, I'm so proud of you.



Bob Ong said:


> creating LIES is actually China's masterpiece



You are the one who is telling lie at the moment


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## Bob Ong

I hope next time these Taiwanese poachers will stop their illegal intrusions into Philippine waters in order to avoid and prevent unfortunate incidents like this

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## Bob Ong

KirovAirship said:


> Ouch damn it it was *selling *not "*stealing*", wrong word.
> And Chinese never forced you to buy their "substandard/fake products", why are you blaming China for your own decision and choice.
> 
> Oh good take advantage of other people's misfortune, I'm so proud of you.
> 
> You are the one who is telling lie at the moment


So you already admit, those illegal drugs comes from your country LOL...so stop being fake and try being real for once in your life. I understand that China will not really think twice sending its illegal drugs to the Philippines with container loads of chemical to manufacture 'Shabu'. And would not also hesitate exporting to the Philippines fake goods, inferior goods, goods tainted with toxic chemicals, goods which are undersize. And all these Chinese made goods are passed as the real one and are OVER PRICES. That's how good the Chinese are towards the Filipinos. They cheat! 


Ok enough and let's go back to the topic

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## USAHawk785

Bob Ong said:


> So you already admit, those illegal drugs comes from your country LOL...so stop being fake and try being real for once in your life. I understand that China will not really think twice sending its illegal drugs to the Philippines with container loads of chemical to manufacture 'Shabu'. And would not also hesitate exporting to the Philippines fake goods, inferior goods, goods tainted with toxic chemicals, goods which are undersize. And all these Chinese made goods are passed as the real one and are OVER PRICES. That's how good the Chinese are towards the Filipinos. They cheat!
> 
> 
> Ok enough and let's go back to the topic



Find comfort in knowing that the Philippines isn't the only country that receives cheap / low quality products from China. I remember reading CNN couple of months back where hundreds or Taiwanese/Chinese telecom scammers were arrested in the Philippines and deported back to their countries after being caught by Philippine law officials. tsk.

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## Snomannen

Bob Ong said:


> So you already admit, those illegal drugs comes from your country LOL...so stop being fake and try being real for once in your life. I understand that China will not really think twice sending its illegal drugs to the Philippines with container loads of chemical to manufacture 'Shabu'. And would not also hesitate exporting to the Philippines fake goods, inferior goods, goods tainted with toxic chemicals, goods which are undersize. And all these Chinese made goods are passed as the real one and are OVER PRICES. That's how good the Chinese are towards the Filipinos. They cheat!
> 
> 
> Ok enough and let's go back to the topic



What did I ever admit. You can't even read correctly. You people are selling drugs in my city, this is a fact. I already told you that I spelled the word "selling" wrong, therefore the sentence should be [there were some Filipino *selling *drugs in our tiny peaceful city]. Stop playing with words and avoid the main point which is related to the topic, that's so childish.
You are the one who attempt to flood my city with illegal drugs and being fake (making up different versions of story) here.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...d-macau-s-biggest-cocaine-smuggling-case.html

Besides I brought this 'off-topic' issue up as a sample because there is a point has to be mentioned, that even it was the fisherman's mistake, that's still unnecessary to use such violence. So please keep your "toxic goods" rumor away. What would you think if we kill you people just because they frequently steal from their hirer and up to drug business in our city. Not to mention that your government is making up various stories and slander the old man was "armed" and tried to crush your ship.


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## itaskol




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## Sanchez

itaskol said:


>



I heard it's too late, and the sanctions already began.


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## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> We will never give in to blackmail. Ok let's see



These are the most civil retaliations to murderers who are unrepentent


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## shuttler

"deep" regret - why not the "deepest" regret
"unfortunate and unintended loss of life " - why not " loss of life due to PCG's atrocities on high seas"

Why not invite Taiwanese legal departments for a joint investigation?

Why no mentioning of adequate compensation?

Why no guarantee of the same case will not happen in future?

Clock is ticking down to the second Ultimatum which is expiring tomorrow or else a second more intense sanction underway


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## Zero_wing

Because its just it being nice our President is a nice guy but i hate him for that still seeking a Diplomatic Solution is the best than war Taiwan is doing this because the Philippines is weak its no secret to anyone but this will not happen again in the Near future i hope with current modernization hope we can defend Philippine waters effectively at less those pirates will think twice before fishing near the Philippines screw the chinese they are criminals here drug traffickers and smugglers and importers of smuggled goods killing filipino industries and trade and they also smuggled natural Resources so am glade that taiwanese are cutting ties with us if it was America, Europe, Japan well it would be big trouble for us but china and Taiwan i say screw them am taking my good some place less hostile and people who gives me respect but still the President is a nice guy maybe Ma's Successor will be far more better leader maybe its that Vice President i hope so.


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## ChinaToday

Zero_wing said:


> Because its just it being nice our President is a nice guy but i hate him for that still seeking a Diplomatic Solution is the best than war Taiwan is doing this because the Philippines is weak its no secret to anyone but this will not happen again in the Near future i hope with current modernization hope we can defend Philippine waters effectively at less those pirates will think twice before fishing near the Philippines screw the chinese they are criminals here drug traffickers and smugglers and importers of smuggled goods killing filipino industries and trade and they also smuggled natural Resources so am glade that taiwanese are cutting ties with us if it was America, Europe, Japan well it would be big trouble for us but china and Taiwan i say screw them am taking my good some place less hostile and people who gives me respect but still the President is a nice guy maybe Ma's Successor will be far more better leader maybe its that Vice President i hope so.



meanwhile your banana country keep making fresh apology and Taiwan keep imposing new sanctions 

*New Taiwanese sanctions for Philippines despite apology*

Taiwan has imposed more sanctions on the Philippines, despite an apology from the Philippine president for the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters

BBC News - New Taiwanese sanctions for Philippines despite apology

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## Zero_wing

typical chekwa nothing good to say so typical 

As i said before those people can find better work so am not worried second Taiwan is not even our largest market and trading partners so who care and majority of criminals committed by foreigners here are Taiwanese next to mainladers (drugs/Smuggling in and out of the country, scams and tax evasions so i say good bye to bad rubbish and hello rebirth of local Industries and i say to taiwan good luck finding 800k Professional works it would hurt them more than us so who care were to preoccupied with the elections here. Bring it on

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## Snomannen

ChinaToday said:


> meanwhile your banana country keep making fresh apology and Taiwan keep imposing new sanctions
> 
> *New Taiwanese sanctions for Philippines despite apology*
> 
> Taiwan has imposed more sanctions on the Philippines, despite an apology from the Philippine president for the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters
> 
> BBC News - New Taiwanese sanctions for Philippines despite apology



The people of the nation of maids think that they are the most important people in the whole wide world. They	wishfully think that the earth is running for them and the stars are lighting for them. The most important thing is, they think that everyone will beg them to come back to work for them otherwise nobody will clean their toilets.

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## chinapakistan

KirovAirship said:


> The people of the nation of maids think that they are the most important people in the whole wide world. They	wishfully think that the earth is running for them and the stars are lighting for them. The most important thing is, they think that everyone will beg them to come back to work for them otherwise nobody will clean their toilets.


 bro, you made my day. It is funny, thank you.


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## Zero_wing

Well go ahead then am not worried my business is booming and my exports are India and Europe and America we close down our connection with china and now taiwan too you guys think whatever you think because things here are different than what you vision in your sick minds your not Important to us deal with it.

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## ChinaToday

Zero_wing said:


> Well go ahead then am not worried my business is booming and my exports are India and Europe and America we close down our connection with china and now taiwan too you guys think whatever you think because things here are different than what you vision in your sick minds your not Important to us deal with it.



Then please tell your banana president to grow a pair of ..... stop making fresh apology every day is it getting really embaressing


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## Zero_wing

ChinaToday said:


> Then please tell your banana president to grow a pair of ..... stop making fresh apology every day is it getting really embaressing



Whatever dude


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## longyi

^^^Shocking you're the first anti China/Chinese Indonesian in this forum. All of them are educated and debate rationally. 

But you got it totally wrong though, it's the Pinoys that love to talk. Taiwanese are quiet people.


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## chinapakistan

Zero_wing said:


> Well go ahead then am not worried my business is booming and my exports are India and Europe and America we close down our connection with china and now taiwan too you guys think whatever you think because things here are different than what you vision in your sick minds your not Important to us deal with it.



Then why you guys are still exporting maids and banana to us?


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## longyi

WarsawMo said:


> Im a sumatran and we in indonesia will forever be friends with the philippines.
> We never had bad blood.
> Get that.
> *Taiwanes and chinese are just the same.
> They are both dogs*.





post reported

BTW you should be proud enough to carry your own flag.


----------



## Snomannen

ChinaToday said:


> Then please tell your banana president to grow a pair of ..... stop making fresh apology every day is it getting really embaressing



If a man really consider that he is on the right side, he will never apology nor making up stories.
But in this moment someone did say sorry, but yet still wishfully attempt to pretend they are strong.
What a cheeky human being.


----------



## Pinoy

WarsawMo said:


> Taiwan readjusts drills to protect fishing vessels
> 05-15-2013 22:26 BJT
> Text:A A A |Email
> More Sharing ServicesShare | Share on facebook Share on myspace Share on google Share on twitter
> Watch Video
> 
> Play Video
> The most powerful vessel in Taiwan&#8217;s navy set off on Wednesday afternoon to join a fishing protection exercise near the Philippines.
> But the route for the Kidd-class battleship has been changed, and it will head back when it reaches the midline between Taiwan and the Philippines. The original plan was to send the warship to waters off the Philippines as a protest.
> The scale of the exercise has also been brought down, with a shortened duration and a reduced number of ships. But Taiwan stressed its determination to protect its fishing industry remains the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like taiwan talk the talk and the philippines walk the walk.
> It took me 3 days to read regarding the taiwan-philippine conflict.
> Seems like the first one tried to hide some parts of the pinoys island in every cgi i could find.
> Once someone lies i never gonna trust him.
> This time its taiwan.
> Even in indonesia we are having problem with them(chinese/taiwanese)


Taiwan may initiate military drills, but they will not pursue to attack. They will really have a second thought of that. Why? because ASEAN countries and US is watching them. If they will start war against us, I bet, they will regret it for the rest of their lives.


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## Zero_wing

wag na kabayan mga gago ito mga ito asar talo lang hayan mo sila mas malaki ng mawawala sa kanila kay sa atin easy lang kabayan


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## sdjd2013

Pinoy said:


> Taiwan may initiate military drills, but they will not pursue to attack. They will really have a second thought of that. Why? because ASEAN countries and US is watching them. If they will start war against us, I bet, they will regret it for the rest of their lives.



F U C K the ASEANs, Taiwan taught them how to fight, ask Singapore. I hope you manuns try to arrest, or fire one waning shot, just one -- and see what happens. You god damn parasite loser/ pirates/ extortionist, sorry excuse of a regime.


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## Pinoy

Zero_wing said:


> wag na kabayan mga gago ito mga ito asar talo lang hayan mo sila mas malaki ng mawawala sa kanila kay sa atin easy lang kabayan


Korek di nila naiisip yon eh mga bobo kase



sdjd2013 said:


> F U C K the ASEANs, Taiwan taught them how to fight, ask Singapore. I hope you manuns try to arrest, or fire one waning shot, just one -- and see what happens. You god damn parasite loser/ pirates/ extortionist, sorry excuse of a regime.


That's about as stupid of a post that anyone can make.

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## sdjd2013

Pinoy said:


> Korek di nila naiisip yon eh mga bobo kase
> 
> 
> That's about as stupid of a post that anyone can make.



no dumber than your manun post, and your government's lame explanation -- what idiot what ram a warship with a fishing boat? not even a manun would do such a dumb thing.


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## Pinoy

sdjd2013 said:


> no dumber than your manun post, and your government's lame explanation -- what idiot what ram a warship with a fishing boat? not even a manun would do such a dumb thing.


Remember, Taiwanese people are nothing more than cowards who escaped China during the Civil War, led by the greatest coward of all, Chiang Kai-shek. He lost control of Mainland China to the communists due to rampant corruption in his government. Hahaha so look who is talking. Taiwan is definitely overacting!

If you want to be treated as an independent country then you should declare your independence to China.


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## sdjd2013

by the way, if anything, Taiwan should include Indonesia as the "fictional enemy" in their exercises, since they seem to have fun raping, pillaging, and killing Chinese civilians.


----------



## Zero_wing

good make enemies just like your mainland brothers you position in the world does not bother you fine let bee its not if we are going to surfer in the end


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## sdjd2013

Pinoy said:


> Remember, Taiwanese people are nothing more than cowards who escaped China during the Civil War, led by the greatest coward of all, Chiang Kai-shek. He lost control of Mainland China to the communists due to rampant corruption in his government. Hahaha so look who is talking. Taiwan is definitely overacting!
> 
> If you want to be treated as an independent country then you should declare your independence to China.



yeah yea, that's the extent of your manun knowledge of Asian history. How about you guys voting for the most corrupted ex-official of all times, the Marcos?? your citizens must be in the sun too long. Taiwan doesn't need to declare independence to toss you manuns like fresh salad.



Zero_wing said:


> good make enemies just like your mainland brothers you position in the world does not bother you fine let bee its not if we are going to surfer in the end



you speak English like you speak manun... pac pac pac pac, no commas


----------



## Pinoy

sdjd2013 said:


> yeah yea, that's the extent of your manun knowledge of Asian history. How about you guys voting for the most corrupted ex-official of all times, the Marcos?? your citizens must be in the sun too long. Taiwan doesn't need to declare independence to toss you manuns like fresh salad.


Marcos is one of the best Philippine Presidents we have. I'm sure if he's still our President, he will not think twice to make war with stupid and arrogant Taiwan. LMAO!


----------



## sdjd2013

Pinoy said:


> Remember, Taiwanese people are nothing more than cowards who escaped China during the Civil War, led by the greatest coward of all, Chiang Kai-shek. He lost control of Mainland China to the communists due to rampant corruption in his government. Hahaha so look who is talking. Taiwan is definitely overacting!
> 
> If you want to be treated as an independent country then you should declare your independence to China.



If Taiwan are full of cowards, why is Aquino apologizing profusely, in all ways possible? Why not come out and fight like a real man?



Pinoy said:


> Marcos is one of the best Philippine Presidents we have. I'm sure if he's still our President, he will not think twice to make war with stupid and arrogant Taiwan. LMAO!



except Marcos was dethroned and died from having too much of people's wealth.


----------



## Pinoy

sdjd2013 said:


> If Taiwan are full of cowards, why is Aquino apologizing profusely, in all ways possible? Why not come out and fight like a real man?
> 
> except Marcos was dethroned and died from having too much of people's wealth.


The Philippines has been diplomatic and proper. We are not barbaric as China, you know that right? 

He was forcibly removed by the weakest Philippine President Corazon Aquino, the Chinese puppet and mother of the current President today.

So it's already expected Aquino will apologize to you since your demanding it right? Anyway it's not hard to say 'sorry'.


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Taiwan readjusts drills to protect fishing vessels*
05-15-2013 22:26 BJT

The most powerful vessel in Taiwan&#8217;s navy set off on Wednesday afternoon to join a fishing protection exercise near the Philippines.

*But the route for the Kidd-class battleship has been changed, and it will head back when it reaches the midline between Taiwan and the Philippines. The original plan was to send the warship to waters off the Philippines as a protest.*

The scale of the exercise has also been brought down, with a shortened duration and a reduced number of ships. But Taiwan stressed its determination to protect its fishing industry remains the same.

Taiwan readjusts drills to protect fishing vessels CCTV News - CNTV English


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## Zero_wing

See its not even warship its speed boat turn coast guard patrol vessel see can't even get that right


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## sdjd2013

iajj said:


> it doesn't necessarily make debazi cowards, just an angloamerican lapdog that must import arms from angloamericans and dared not defy explicit orders from their masters not to escalate the matter lest debazi incur angloamerican displeasure. so debazi must swallow its pride, if there were any to begin with, and climb down from the high they built themselves onto.
> 
> ...yeah, on second thought, this makes debazi coward through and through. what a despicable bunch.



this is what I mean, I live in the san Gabriel valley, where citizens from China call it the "liberated zone," and I have to deal with jaded minds like this guy all the time, trying to tell them it's a big world! open your minds and your side way eyes. 

Can't trust China, Taiwan must not side with China, that would mean a betrayal of U.S., but I still dare the manuns come out and fight like men.


----------



## 3310

to all posters, keep it civil. is there a need to bring race into the discussion? keep your facts fact.

too much nationalism from all sides.


----------



## Leonhart

USAHawk785 said:


> The Philippines can never be touched. She is too precious and too strategically important in American Strategic interests for it to be touched by any foreign power. Any foreign power who dares touch the Philippines shall suffer the full might of the United States Navy, Air Force and the Army.
> 
> United States conducted the largest naval invasion in human history back in 1944 to retake the Philippines from the Japs. That illustrates the shear will of our resolve to preserve Philippine-American homeostasis.
> 
> Taiwan, because it is subservient to its American Daddy, will not do anything. Else it will be punished. As for China, LOL. Well, c'mon. The 7th Fleet will eradicate the PLAN from the face of the earth if need be.



Yet, Taiwan is in the *USA's Visa Waiver Program* and the Philippines are not...LMAO.


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Pinoy said:


> Marcos is one of the best Philippine Presidents we have. I'm sure if he's still our President, he will not think twice to make war with stupid and arrogant Taiwan. LMAO!



No wonder the Philippines is poor when her citizens think like you. Marcos is your best president? You are hopelessly dumb.

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## Leonhart

p3avi8tor69 said:


> No wonder the Philippines is poor when her citizens think like you. Marcos is your best president? You are hopelessly dumb.



Philippines are stuck in the 3rd world. Cannot blame their rationality


----------



## p3avi8tor69

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Taiwan readjusts drills to protect fishing vessels*
> 05-15-2013 22:26 BJT
> 
> The most powerful vessel in Taiwans navy set off on Wednesday afternoon to join a fishing protection exercise near the Philippines.
> 
> *But the route for the Kidd-class battleship has been changed, and it will head back when it reaches the midline between Taiwan and the Philippines. The original plan was to send the warship to waters off the Philippines as a protest.*
> 
> The scale of the exercise has also been brought down, with a shortened duration and a reduced number of ships. But Taiwan stressed its determination to protect its fishing industry remains the same.
> 
> Taiwan readjusts drills to protect fishing vessels CCTV News - CNTV English




We usually never allow countries who bought our rust buckets to use them rust bucket against another ally. Usually....


----------



## 3310

i just realized this hate thread was started by a troll.

start a war risking more lives? we're already in the 21st century.

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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> i just realized this hate thread was started by a troll.
> 
> start a war risking more lives? we're already in the 21st century.



You are right, but imagine if your father was killed by bunch of "fisherman poachers" looking for quick cash, how TF would you feel?



iajj said:


> and there is a saying among pla: a good debazi is a dead debazi. guess how fast debazi can die in a hail of pla bullets?



I got news for you, anti=debazist, the U.S. has laser that can shoot down your missiles and fake stealth fighters, so don't go out like a hero, cus you might miss the glory.

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## 3310

but would his family want taiwan to go to war with the country at fault?


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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> but would his family want taiwan to go to war with the country at fault?



Maybe if you watched the Taiwanese media you would have seen the daughter who insisted that Ma realize his promise to go to war to champion justice, but of course the ally of an ally should be an ally, except some allies don't act nicely b/c they are too oblivious to corruption. So, stop your rogue soldiers from poacher fishermen. It's that simple. Admit to the truth and be repentant.



sdjd2013 said:


> You are right, but imagine if your father was killed by bunch of "fisherman poachers" looking for quick cash, how TF would you feel?
> 
> 
> 
> I got news for you, anti=debazist, the U.S. has laser that can shoot down your missiles and fake stealth fighters, so don't go out like a hero, cus you might miss the glory.



what the PH media fail to cover is the fact PH has been harassing and extorting Taiwanese fishermen for the last 20 years, forcing them to buy fishing permits only to arrest them and jail them for forgery, so they can commit robbery and extortion sanctioned by an ally.

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## 3310

oh, i didn't realize that a family member actually wants to go to war because of the shooting.

i don't think corruption has anything to do with the current events. 

the investigation isn't even finished. it will be impartial because the world is watching.


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## 3310

what the TW media fail to cover is that the shooting took place not in the overlapping EEZ, but well inside PH territory. even the TW government did not dispute this.

Too much hate inside you.


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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> oh, i didn't realize that a family member actually wants to go to war because of the shooting.
> 
> i don't think corruption has anything to do with the current events.
> 
> the investigation isn't even finished. it will be impartial because the world is watching.



Let's hope so, I would love to listen to the manun's explanation about how a 65 year old cap, who had been harassed before by the Manun Fisheries, tried to RAM a 100-ft warship.

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## Martian2

HongWu said:


> Up until little Chiang died in 1988, Taiwan was very much Republic of China. You had anti-Japanese heros like Sun Liren and Zhang Xueliang living there.
> 
> 25 years after, there is nothing left of ROC identity. Now, Republic of Taiwan is ethnically Chinese, culturally Japanese and politically America's dog. Chinese should host no illusions. War is absolutely necessary to take back our beautiful Formosa island from Republic of Taiwan.



*The Chinese Miracle was made in Taiwan*

Taiwan is the most responsible for the "China Miracle."

For the last 35 years, Taiwan used its technology (e.g. 125,749 USPTO patents during the last 35 years), forex reserves, managerial know-how, customer base, industrial base, and logistics chain to transform China into a modern economy and technological powerhouse.

Think about it. From 1949 to 1978, China remained among the world's poorest nations.

What happened between 1978 and 2013 (in those 35 years)? Was it magic? No, it was Taiwan.

----------

Citation:

*Taiwan remains the world's third-largest foreign holder of 125,749 USPTO patents*

For 2012, Taiwan remains the world's third-largest cumulative foreign holder of 125,749 USPTO (ie. U.S. Patent and Trademark Office) patents during the last 35 years. Essentially, Taiwan is out-innovating every other country on the planet except for the United States, Japan, and Germany. This would explain Taiwan's ever-increasing standard of living and foreign exchange reserves.

Patents By Country, State, and Year - All Patent Types (December 2012)


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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> what the TW media fail to cover is that the shooting took place not in the overlapping EEZ, but well inside PH territory. even the TW government did not dispute this.
> 
> Too much hate inside you.



No, I have no hate, I just want to teach the manun's a lesson for making light of the situation, and for calling Taiwanese cowards. there is a Chinese saying - if a lion doesn't roar, don't mistaken it for a cat, but of course to the Androgeness IJAA Taiwan is not a ***** cat, except they won't acknowledge the fact the PLA got repelled in the 5's and beaten back to their floatation devices on high seas. Dumb fucks


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## 3310

did you see a pic of the coast guard ship? it's not a warship. the difference(in size) between the two vessels isn't that big.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> No, I have no hate, I just want to teach the manun's a lesson for making light of the situation, and for calling Taiwanese cowards. there is a Chinese saying - if a lion doesn't roar, don't mistaken it for a cat, but of course to the Androgeness IJAA Taiwan is not a ***** cat, except they won't acknowledge the fact the PLA got repelled in the 5's and beaten back to their floatation devices on high seas. Dumb fucks



fact it your not getting what you wait and your not important market you have no sense of maps and areas that are neighbors you fish thinking they are still yours that's problem here so don't give this b.s about lions you were fishing you try to ram a coast guard ship got shoot and blaming the Philippines for it and asking for compensation? For what? failing to steal my country resources? please


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## 3310

remember, it's still under investigation.

only a few details were released to the public, so we can't make any conclusions.

if there was really a video of the incident, it would clear things up and a copy would already be in taiwanese government's hands by now.


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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> did you see a pic of the coast guard ship? it's not a warship. the difference(in size) between the two vessels isn't that big.



looks can be deceiving...

"This is part of Philippine waters," he said.

Balilo said the 30-meter (100-foot) coastguard vessel initially saw two fishing vessels and tried to approach them. He said the coastguard crew fired at the smaller of the two vessels after it tried to ram the Filipino boat.



Zero_wing said:


> fact it your not getting what you wait and your not important market you have no sense of maps and areas that are neighbors you fish thinking they are still yours that's problem here so don't give this b.s about lions you were fishing you try to ram a coast guard ship got shoot and blaming the Philippines for it and asking for compensation? For what? failing to steal my country resources? please



this is why manuns like you should be shot to ease the suffering of the bereaved family.

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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> remember, it's still under investigation.
> 
> only a few details were released to the public, so we can't make any conclusions.
> 
> if there was really a video of the incident, it would clear things up and a copy would already be in taiwanese government's hands by now.



do you know how far is 180 nautical miles from southern tip of Taiwan? it's about 160 miles


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## shuttler

3310 said:


> remember, it's still under investigation.
> 
> only a few details were released to the public, so we can't make any conclusions.
> 
> if there was really a video of the incident, it would clear things up and a copy would already be in taiwanese government's hands by now.



I think it was your side that claimed having the incident taped

A filippino "under investigation" is no investigation


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## 3310

assuming they actually tried to ram the coast guard vessel. the coast guard's action to disable the engine(which unfortunately killed the captain), was the right thing to do.

someone posted here that this is standard procedure in the US navy/coastguard when boarding a vessel.


----------



## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> assuming they actually tried to ram the coast guard vessel. the coast guard's action to disable the engine(which unfortunately killed the captain), was the right thing to do.
> 
> someone posted here that this is standard procedure in the US navy/coastguard when boarding a vessel.



I doubt you would know the standard procedure of any country, let alone your own. But it takes about 10 minutes for a Taiwanese F16 to travel 160 miles from southern Taiwan to any flash point on the manun map, probably given by captain cook long ago...


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## 3310

don't forget the international community is watching. judging by your comment, you would not take a result less than what you wanted.


----------



## shuttler

sdjd2013 said:


> do you know how far is 180 nautical miles from southern tip of Taiwan? it's about 160 miles



I dont think the conversion is right (even in us nautical mile)



3310 said:


> assuming they actually tried to ram the coast guard vessel. the coast guard's action to disable the engine(which unfortunately killed the captain), was the right thing to do.
> 
> someone posted here that this is standard procedure in the US navy/coastguard when boarding a vessel.



according to the Taiwanese authority there is no apparent damage on the smaller (15 ton) fishing boat but plenty of bullet holes, 52 of them. The filippino's accusation of the small boat ramming against a 2000-ton PCG vessel can be easily verified


----------



## shuttler

3310 said:


> don't forget the international community is watching. judging by your comment, you would not take a result less than what you wanted.



Of course we are waiting for the filippino's comedies to be unfolded:
1. you denied shooting
2. you refused to apologize
3. you accused the Taiwanese ship's ramming
4. you claimed you have the incidence taped

which one of the above have you fulfilled?


----------



## 3310

sdjd2013 said:


> I doubt you would know the standard procedure of any country, let alone your own. But it takes about 10 minutes for a Taiwanese F16 to travel 160 miles from southern Taiwan to any flash point on the manun map, probably given by captain cook long ago...



here you go. defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/251380-taiwan-can-respond-assassination-unarmed-fisherman-philippines-12.html#post4281386



shuttler said:


> I dont think the conversion is right (even in us nautical mile)
> 
> 
> 
> according to the Taiwanese authority there is no apparent damage on the smaller (15 ton) fishing boat but plenty of bullet holes, 52 of them. The filippino's accusation of the small boat ramming against a 2000-ton PCG vessel can be easily verified



no one said the fishing vessel rammed the coast guard ship. the coast guard said "attempting to ram". it would help if you read the news again.


----------



## Malaya

Politics put into play to appease their people in expense of a country neighbor and friend for so many years. 

The Philippine side has done its part. We have complied but lashing out on the Filipinos as a whole is not the way to go. Both will be on the losing end.

Honestly it's better to have Taiwan as a friend rather than a foe. Lets there be peace and cooperation to settle the issue and diffuse the tension. We all know who's our real enemy is...

God bless the Philippines and Taiwan.


----------



## Zero_wing

Man this people are so hardheaded well if it makes you feel better to bully others fine


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## faithfulguy

3310 said:


> remember, it's still under investigation.
> 
> only a few details were released to the public, so we can't make any conclusions.
> 
> if there was really a video of the incident, it would clear things up and a copy would already be in taiwanese government's hands by now.



Filipino government just hired DreamWorks to come up with a video. So it would take a while. I heard that James Cameron would direct this video. Is that true?

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## Zero_wing

Malaya said:


> Politics put into play to appease their people in expense of a country neighbor and friend for so many years.
> 
> The Philippine side has done its part. We have complied but lashing out on the Filipinos as a whole is not the way to go. Both will be on the losing end.
> 
> Honestly it's better to have Taiwan as a friend rather than a foe. Lets there be peace and cooperation to settle the issue and diffuse the tension. We all know who's our real enemy is.
> 
> God bless the Philippines and Taiwan.




Ako kabayan iba ayaw sa lahat ng inik kasi lahit isa pasaway tax evader, drug smugglers and illegal smugglers sila ang rason kung bakit wala tayo industria dito kasi ng market natin puro cheap chinese goods wala na yung atin so kung aalis sila dito ok lang wala na tayo problema sa pag buhay ng mga industria natin



Malaya said:


> Politics put into play to appease their people in expense of a country neighbor and friend for so many years.
> 
> The Philippine side has done its part. We have complied but lashing out on the Filipinos as a whole is not the way to go. Both will be on the losing end.
> 
> Honestly it's better to have Taiwan as a friend rather than a foe. Lets there be peace and cooperation to settle the issue and diffuse the tension. We all know who's our real enemy is.
> 
> God bless the Philippines and Taiwan.




Ako kabayan iba ayaw sa lahat ng inik kasi lahit isa pasaway tax evader, drug smugglers and illegal smugglers sila ang rason kung bakit wala tayo industria dito kasi ng market natin puro cheap chinese goods wala na yung atin so kung aalis sila dito ok lang wala na tayo problema sa pag buhay ng mga industria natin


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## faithfulguy

Malaya said:


> Politics put into play to appease their people in expense of a country neighbor and friend for so many years.
> 
> The Philippine side has done its part. We have complied but lashing out on the Filipinos as a whole is not the way to go. Both will be on the losing end.
> 
> Honestly it's better to have Taiwan as a friend rather than a foe. Lets there be peace and cooperation to settle the issue and diffuse the tension. We all know who's our real enemy is...
> 
> God bless the Philippines and Taiwan.



Then the Filipino gov must compensate and apologize as a nation. Any more harassment would require compensation from Philippine and the offending coast guard boat confiscated.


----------



## 3310

sdjd2013 said:


> I doubt you would know the standard procedure of any country, let alone your own. But it takes about 10 minutes for a Taiwanese F16 to travel 160 miles from southern Taiwan to any flash point on the manun map, probably given by captain cook long ago...



english.peopledaily.com.cn/90786/8246215.html one less f-16 to worry about?



faithfulguy said:


> Then the Filipino gov must compensate and apologize as a nation. Any more harassment would require compensation from Philippine and the offending coast guard boat confiscated.



the philippines DID already apologize. it's just the taiwan government not accepting it.


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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> Then the Filipino gov must compensate and apologize as a nation. Any more harassment would require compensation from Philippine and the offending coast guard boat confiscated.



Why the Philippines was defend its self from thefts who stole from our waters? the only thing were are sorry is our new equipments and weapons are not here yet and were Filipinos are too weak to defend ourselves from bullies like you and your mainland brothers its not our fault that you people are stupid enough to ram a coast guard ship? so your dreaming if you think we give you compensation?


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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> don't forget the international community is watching. judging by your comment, you would not take a result less than what you wanted.



if you expect the world community to trust the unilateral results, without verification, you had better wake up from your tropical dreams.


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## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> Why the Philippines was defend its self from thefts who stole from our waters?



If you concentrated on your studies instead of gang banging and rap music, you will make more sense. 95 % of the time your post are incomprehensible.

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## shuttler

3310 said:


> here you go. defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/251380-taiwan-can-respond-assassination-unarmed-fisherman-philippines-12.html#post4281386
> no one said the fishing vessel rammed the coast guard ship. the coast guard said "attempting to ram". it would help if you read the news again.



I have to look back at your claims to see if you are changing the wording

If the fishing boat was "attempting to ram", how come only the side of the boat was shot at over 52 times and the bow side unscathed?

Where is the video tape?

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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> english.peopledaily.com.cn/90786/8246215.html one less f-16 to worry about?
> 
> 
> 
> the philippines DID already apologize. it's just the taiwan government not accepting it.



forget apology, we want a hefty compensation, prosecution of the murderers, and guarantee no harassments, unless you want a war,

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## faithfulguy

3310 said:


> english.peopledaily.com.cn/90786/8246215.html one less f-16 to worry about?
> 
> 
> 
> the philippines DID already apologize. it's just the taiwan government not accepting it.



They apologized for the death of the fisherman. But never apologized for shooting the fisherman. It never go after the person that shot the fisherman. Unless that coast guard that shot the fisherman is handed over to Taiwan for trial, no apology is sincere.

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## sdjd2013

sdjd2013 said:


> b/c you killed without cause, dumb ******* coconut



in what known legal system can you kill a trespasser? Please enlighten me.

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## 3310

shuttler said:


> I have to look back at your claims to see if you are changing the wording
> 
> If the fishing boat was "attempting to ram", how come the side of the boat was shot at over 52 times?
> 
> Where is the video tape?



I think they shot engine in the hopes of disabling it after the fishing vessel attempted to ram the coast guard ship. the man was ufortunately inside the engine room.

i'm also waiting for the elusive video evidence.



faithfulguy said:


> They apologized for the death of the fisherman. But never apologized for shooting the fisherman. It never go after the person that shot the fisherman. Unless that coast guard that shot the fisherman is handed over to Taiwan for trial, no apology is sincere.



it's rare for a country to hand over a citizen to face a possible political trial overseas. be realistic


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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> I think they shot engine in the hopes of disabling it after the fishing vessel attempted to ram the coast guard ship. the man was ufortunately inside the engine room.
> 
> i'm also waiting for the elusive video evidence.



why would the captain be in the engine room if he was trying to ram the warship? duhhh.. he was running away from the rogue soldiers who tried to capture the ship for gamesmanship, how many dots do I have to connect for you manuns?



sdjd2013 said:


> why would the captain be in the engine room if he was trying to ram the warship? duhhh.. he was running away from the rogue soldiers who tried to capture the ship for gamesmanship, how many dots do I have to connect for you manuns?



**** these guys, I say, let them come and try to arrest another ROC citizen, mother fuckers


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## shuttler

3310 said:


> I think they shot engine in the hopes of disabling it after the fishing vessel attempted to ram the coast guard ship. the man was ufortunately inside the engine room.



the captain was trying to stay away from the bullets as sdjd2013 said and he had the hardest luck getting hit. Yours is a 2000-toner while the fishing vessel is only 15-ton made of fibre glass and unarmed! You people are downright brutal!



> i'm also waiting for the elusive video evidence.



you guys are trying to cover up the original evidence with doctored footages - the reason for the delay!

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## 3310

sdjd2013 said:


> why would the captain be in the engine room if he was trying to ram the warship?



why? beats me. I still don't know if he is truly the captain or not.



sdjd2013 said:


> duhhh.. he was running away from the rogue soldiers who tried to capture the ship for gamesmanship, how many dots do I have to connect for you manuns?



your opinions are not facts.



shuttler said:


> You people are downright brutal!
> you guys are trying to cover up the original evidence with doctored footages - the reason for the delay!



Your generalization of our people is downright racist.


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## shuttler

3310 said:


> Your generalization of our people is downright racist.



I am accusing your people who are responsible for the atrocities and those who are handling the whole incidence sloppily. I am not against the innocent people of the Philippines!


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## 3310

shuttler said:


> the captain was trying to stay away from the bullets as sdjd2013 said and he had the hardest luck getting hit.



How did you know that information? It's kinda impartial of you to believe outright the other over another without proper investigation.


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## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> If you concentrated on your studies instead of gang banging and rap music, you will make more sense. 95 % of the time your post are incomprehensible.



Gang banging really maybe you i was school but i was average guy with average grades of 83 since elementary up to college maybe that's what your doing that's why your a loser nothing but a troll tell me have you post anything useful you said from one of your post you wanna help the Philippines but all here from you admiral general was troll basing so again who's stupid now?



shuttler said:


> I am accusing your people who are responsible for the atrocities and those who are handling the whole incidence sloppily. I am not against the innocent people of the Philippines!



Oh please don't give me that wanna destroy the philippines now your not against Filipinos cut the b.s wala ka isang salita gago ka ba? or bobo lang?


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## 3310

shuttler said:


> I am accusing your people who are responsible for the atrocities and those who are handling the whole incidence sloppily. I am not against the innocent people of the Philippines!



You clearly meant/said *YOU PEOPLE*. your earlier statements also says so.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> forget apology, we want a hefty compensation, prosecution of the murderers, and guarantee no harassments, unless you want a war,



Go ahead your fighter pilots can't even fly planes properly


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## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> Gang banging really maybe you i was school but i was average guy with average grades of 83 since elementary up to college maybe that's what your doing that's why your a loser nothing but a troll tell me have you post anything useful you said from one of your post you wanna help the Philippines but all here from you admiral general was troll basing so again who's stupid now?
> 
> 
> Oh please don't give me that wanna destroy the philippines now your not against Filipinos cut the b.s wala ka isang salita gago ka ba? or bobo lang?




Judging from your grammar, sentence structure and lack of logic, you got grades in the 50's not the 80's. Your drivel gave you away. Hit the books kid. You don't make any sense.



Zero_wing said:


> Go ahead your fighter pilots can't even fly planes properly




Huh and what do you know about piloting.


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## shuttler

3310 said:


> How did you know that information? It's kinda impartial of you to believe outright the other over another without proper investigation.



pinoy investigation = no investigation

the people of HK knew that the hard way

There are enough footage on TV to refute your claims and you are changing stances all the time, Let me give you a recap:

1. First you said no shooting later admitted shooting occurred
2. You said no apology, then a perfunctory apology without sincerity
3. You said you have captured the whole incidence on video but so many days have past, where is the footage
4. You said "ramming" but visual evidence has shown otherwise and the Taiwanese confrim "no ramming" occurred



Zero_wing said:


> Oh please don't give me that wanna destroy the philippines now your not against Filipinos cut the b.s wala ka isang salita gago ka ba? or bobo lang?



Ignored



3310 said:


> You clearly meant/said *YOU PEOPLE*. your earlier statements also says so.



re read my posting @388!


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## 3310

if i was the president and it was premeditated murder, i would happily hand him over to the taiwanese authorities.

presidents here can only serve 1 6-year term, so i coudn't care less what the political implications my actions would do.


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## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Judging from your grammar, sentence structure and lack of logic, you got grades in the 50's not the 80's. Your drivel gave you away. Hit the books kid. You don't make any sense.
> 
> 
> Huh and what do you know about piloting.



What really now? so how my question were is your answer or are you just all talk and no show? cut the b.s already.



p3avi8tor69 said:


> Judging from your grammar, sentence structure and lack of logic, you got grades in the 50's not the 80's. Your drivel gave you away. Hit the books kid. You don't make any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh and what do you know about piloting.



check the news why should i answer for you? You Just called me dumb a post ago find your own info



shuttler said:


> pinoy investigation = no investigation
> 
> the people of HK knew that the hard way
> 
> There are enough footage on TV to refute your claims and you are changing stances all the time, Let me give you a recap:
> 
> 1. First you said no shooting later admitted shooting occurred
> 2. You said no apology, then a perfuntory apology without sincerity
> 3. You said you have captured the whole incidence but so many days have past, where is the footage
> 4. You said "ramming" but evidence has shown and the Taiwanese confrim "no ramming" occurred
> 
> 
> 
> Ignored
> 
> 
> 
> re read my posting @388!



Why should he its almost the same as the last racist post its nothing but pure b.s


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## 3310

reading your posts earlier than post 388 is quite self explanatory.


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## Pinoy

This is already a tragedy that does not need over-exaggeration

Taiwan is the drama queen of Asia. LMAO!

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## shuttler

3310 said:


> if i was the president and it was premeditated murder, i would happily hand him over to the taiwanese authorities.
> presidents here can only serve 1 6-year term, so i coudn't care less what the political implications my actions would do.



Earn your respect:

1. confess the shooting is insane and brutal
2. adequate compensation to the aggrieved family
3. sincerely apologize
4. a joint-country trial of the culprits
5, guarantee the same thing wont occur again


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## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> What really now? so how my question were is your answer or are you just all talk and no show? cut the b.s already.
> 
> 
> 
> check the news why should i answer for you? You Just called me dumb a post ago find your own info
> 
> 
> 
> Why should he its almost the same as the last racist post its nothing but pure b.s



No wonder you got 50's in school, you can't even tell sarcasm

Good night kid and study hard for your own sake.


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## 3310

shuttler said:


> Earn your respect:
> 
> 1. confess the shooting is insane



making that action even before the investigation is finish defeats the purpose of the investigation.

in democratic countries, defendants are always assumed innocent until proven guilty.


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## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> No wonder you got 50's in school, you can't even tell sarcasm
> 
> Good night kid and study hard for your own sake.



Sorry i don't know crazy b.s you have to excuse me admiral general aladin 



shuttler said:


> Earn your respect:
> 
> 1. confess the shooting is insane and brutal
> 2. adequate compensation to the aggrieved family
> 3. sincerely apologize
> 4. a joint-country trial of the culprits
> 5, guarantee the same thing wont occur again



Your right about the last part because we will shoot this time


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## 3310

and it will not be sincere if you are forced to do it.


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## Pinoy

Taiwan is no different from the big bully China, they are both land grabber and sea grabber. LMAO!

The only difference is the Mainlanders won the war and so the present day Taiwanese who lost the war had to grab land of the aborigines and drive them off to the mountains. They are really very consistent.


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## 3310

the TW and PH governments' responses wouldn't be that different from each other if a similar event would happen but within the undisputed waters of taiwan involving a filipino fisherman.


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## filipino_american

Taiwan DOES NOT DESERVE any FORM of APOLOGY at all.

First of all, the TAIWANESE vessel ENTERED the Philippine TERRITORIAL WATERS.

Under INTERNATIONAL LAW, the Territorial Waters of the Philippines are SOLELY under the DIRECT JURISDICTION OF THE PHILIPPINES. FISHING IN THE AREA IS EXCLUSIVE TO THE FILIPINOS ONLY. NO FOREIGN NATIONALS ALLOWED.

The Philippines is an Archipelagic NATION and that is why it has more territorial waters compared to the other countries.


The TAIWANESE vessel tried to RAM the Phil's small BFAR BOAT (not even a Cost Guard) and that justified the SHOOTING of the engine. The Captain of the TAIWANESE SHIP WAS just in the wrong place.

The statement of RAMMING is VERY LIKELY as the sizes of both Taiwan fishing boat and the Phil BFAR boat were ALMOST the SAME.

Also, the SANCTIONS will not AFFECT the Philippines MOST, it will affect TAIWAN MOST.

Taiwan is NOT a recognized country, most countries DONT HAVE RELATIONS with TAIWAN.

The Philippines is the NEWEST RISING ASIAN TIGER according to the world bank.


Fil. OFWs are VERY MARKETABLE as they are VERY FLUENT in ENGLISH. They can JUST GO EASILY to any country accepting OFWs like JAPAN, SINGAPORE, the middle east etc.

Taiwan is NOT A MAJOR Phil. trading partner and "NOT" one of the "MOST" OFW "favorite" destinations.

As I've said, the Philippines is a RISING TIGER. The Philippines is continuously resisting the slowing economy of the world. Surprisingly, its economy GREW more than expected last time I checked the news (even with CHINA'S SANCTION last year). The Philippines is the second fastest growing economy in ASIA after China, THE NEWEST RISING TIGER, and according to the exerts the STRONGEST ECONOMY in ASIA today. The Philippines is expected to become the world's 14th largest economy in the world by 2050 according to not just one economist but a lot including WORLD recognized agencies like the world bank, imf, hsbc etc.

Taiwan NEEDS FILIPINOS but the PHILIPPINES dont need TAIWAN that much.


The TAIWANESE PRESIDENT must be crazy.

The Philippines HEAVILY SUPPORTED ROC over PRC. Taiwan DID NOT THINK.

it should be this way:

1. Taiwan should APOLOGIZE to the Philippines FOR "illegally" ENTERING ITS TERRITORIAL WATERS.

2. Taiwan should APOLOGIZE to the Philippines FOR NOT EDUCATING ITS PEOPLE THAT THEY INDEED ENTERED WATERS THAT WERE NOT THEIRS under INTERNATIONAL LAW.

3. Taiwan should APOLOGIZE to the Philippines FOR TRYING TO RAM their vessel hence ENDANGERING the lives of the BFAR'S crew who were just doing their job.


Taiwan has too much PRIDE, they should ADMIT THE FACT that the DEATH of their countrymen was the RESULT of their ILLEGAL ENTRY and their VIOLENT (ramming) behavior.

I support the STATEMENT:

Taiwan DESERVES SYMPATHY but NOT APOLOGY!

The Phil Gov SHOULD HAVE NEVER APOLOGIZED to TAIWAN.

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## filipino_american

If the Philippine BFAR crew DID NOT fire at the TAIWANESE FISHING BOAT, they would have been rammed and possibly might have been KILLED or injured seriously. I salute those FILIPINOS for their BREVARY in defending the SOVEREIGNTY of the NATION. 

Again, the TW BOAT CAPTAIN'S VIOLENT BEHAVIOR and illegal entry CAUSED his life

Taiwan deserves SYMPATHY but not an APOLOGY!

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## ManilaBoy45

Taiwan-Based Filipino Beaten Up with a Pipe

Taiwan-based Pinoy beaten up with a pipe | Pinoy Abroad | GMA News Online

May 16, 2013 3:50pm

At least one overseas Filipino worker in Taiwan has been physically attacked amid rising tension over the fatal shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters last week, a Taiwan-based Filipino said on Thursday.In a radio interview, the OFW identified only as "Roger" also said the Philippine office representing them, the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO), was inaccessible.

"May sinaktan dito, (ginamitan ng) tubo. Lalaki siya, hindi namin makuha ang pangalan, nasa hospital siya," he said in an interview on dzBB radio Thursday noon.Roger also said they tried to contact the MECO but received no reply as an answering machine took their calls.

Those Arrogant Taiwanese Have Really Crossed the Line this Time by Hurting Innocent People ...

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## Martian2

At Filipino-American:

The Philippine claim that the little wooden Taiwanese boat tried to ram the metallic Filipino coast guard ship is a LIE. The wooden Taiwanese boat would have smashed to pieces if it hit the metallic 100-foot Philippine ship.

If the Taiwanese boat was trying to ram the Filipino ship, the Philippine coast guard defensive bullets would have traveled from bow-to-stern (longitudinal axis) on the Taiwanese boat. Instead, the pictures show 52 large-caliber bullets perforating the side (transverse axis) of the little Taiwanese boat.

The physical evidence is consistent with the story told by the Taiwanese skipper. The skipper said he never tried to ram the Filipino ship and was trying to escape a hail of Filipino bullets for one hour.

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## shuttler

3310 said:


> making that action even before the investigation is finish defeats the purpose of the investigation.
> 
> in democratic countries, defendants are always assumed innocent until proven guilty.



the prima facie evidence is the crew on the pcg are insane, reckless and brutal
the government of the philippines are inept, lying and insincere 
they may also be indicted on counts of falsifying evidences (the video and others) and obstruction of the course of justice
The court proceedings are just the last procedure to give verdicts to the criminals

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## shuttler

3310 said:


> and it will not be sincere if you are forced to do it.



you are manipulative trying to defy the truthfulness of the event
if you are not put under sanctions, the criminals would have escaped from the justice of the world (under the protection of your inept government) FOREVER!

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## Snomannen

filipino_american said:


> If the Philippine BFAR crew DID NOT fire at the TAIWANESE FISHING BOAT, they would have been rammed and possibly might have been KILLED or injured seriously. I salute those FILIPINOS for their BREVARY in defending the SOVEREIGNTY of the NATION.
> 
> Again, the TW BOAT CAPTAIN'S VIOLENT BEHAVIOR and illegal entry CAUSED his life
> 
> Taiwan deserves SYMPATHY but not an APOLOGY!



Your government is diffident and doesn't even dare to show the tape but only making up different versions of stories in order to cover the truth. Your government slanders about how "powerful" the old unarmed fisherman was and how brave he was attempted to crush your ship with his lovely tiny fishing boat. Making up excuses and stories doesn't help you to remove the fact that there are huge amount of bullet holes in the ship and you people killed a unarmed old man by strafing him. 
Taiwan needs you more than the Phil needs Taiwan you say. Even the second largest economy doesn't dare to say that America need China more than China needs America. Not to mention that America currently own a lot of debt from China. 
You keep presenting a lot of prophecies. The newest tiger his the newest tiger that. Who cares if you are really growing after all those decades of stagnant or even backward developing. You keep mentioning "will be", how about NOW. The fact is that you are not even worthy to compare the Phil to Taiwan in the past nor AT THIS MOMENT. Who gave you the nothingness of proud to make you think that the Phil, a undeveloped country, is better than a developed 'country' Taiwan. Which industry in Phil is even worthy to compare with Taiwan's any kind industry. Even China can't say such a arrogant thing to the US nor Japan. 
Besides if the sanctions are really not damaging your benefit, you government would have never apologies. Also if the Phil government really think that they are on the right side, hey would have never made a single apology as well. The fisherman was surely do the wrong thing and crossed the line, but how about we killed you people who recently selling drugs in my city instead of catching them and putting them in jail. He was standing in the wrong place you say, how about our polices shoot you people in the head and say the same thing to you and give you a meaningless sorry.

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## jerry_tan

*PCG describes Balintang Channel incident - 'like a scene from an action movie'*
The way the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) described the May 9 shooting of Taiwanese fishermen off the coast of Balintang island was like telling a scene out of an action movie: a government vessel precariously dodging two fishing boats that tried to sink the law enforcer's ship as they engaged the bad guys in a high seas chase.

.....
One of the Taiwanese vessel maneuvered to ramp our starboard bow. This unit executed reverse [gear] to avoid collision, said the PCG report.

* Video of Taiwanese intrusion turned over to NBI*
Shows Taiwanese vessel 'aggression'
By Roy C. Mabasa
Published: May 16, 2013

A video of the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) on the maritime incident in Balintang Channel last week that resulted in the death of a 65-year old Taiwanese fisherman has been turned over to the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI), government sources revealed on Thursday. 

However, the contents of the said video, which apparently documented the circumstances that transpired prior to the actual shooting, will not be made known to the public as of this time since it will be used as evidence during the investigation of the incident. 

Nevertheless, the government sources told Manila Bulletin that the video "is on our side" as it apparently showed that the Taiwanese fishing vessel was the "aggressor" during the incident. 

The video supposedly will also support the PCG's defense that the encounter transpired well within the Philippines' Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). 

According to PCG commandant Rear Admiral Rodolfo Isorena, the Taiwanese fishing boat, Guang Ta Hsin-28 together with another Taiwanese boat were 43-nautical miles east off Balintang Island around 10:30 am of May 9 when the boats were halted by the MCS-3001, a 35-meter vessel jointly manned by the Coast Guard and personnel from the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) for an on-board inspection, but the smaller fishing boat did not respond to the warning and even tried to ram the vessel of the Philippine maritime agency.

As a result, the commanding officer of the MCS-3001 ordered to open fire at Guang Ta Hsin-28 to disable its engine but accidentally killed the Taiwanese fisherman.

Additional two unidentified vessels, one white and one gray, eventually arrived in the area, causing the MCS-3001 to disengage and leave as they were already outnumbered. 

Both PCG and BFAR crew on-board MCS-001 were relieved as part of the standard operations procedure while the investigations are on-going.


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## Soryu

Martian2 said:


> At Filipino-American:
> 
> The Philippine claim that the little wooden Taiwanese boat tried to ram the metallic Filipino coast guard ship is a LIE. The wooden Taiwanese boat would have smashed to pieces if it hit the metallic 100-foot Philippine ship.
> 
> If the Taiwanese boat was trying to ram the Filipino ship, the Philippine coast guard defensive bullets would have traveled from bow-to-stern (longitudinal axis) on the Taiwanese boat. Instead, the pictures show 52 large-caliber bullets perforating the side (transverse axis) of the little Taiwanese boat.
> 
> The physical evidence is consistent with the story told by the Taiwanese skipper. The skipper said he never tried to ram the Filipino ship and was trying to escape a hail of Filipino bullets for one hour.


Two point in here:

1. In the past, chinese fishing ship was ram Japan coast guard ship and JCG has 20mm auto machine gun and little bigger. Chinese fishing men also attacked and kill a Korean CG officer, so the Philippine maybe thought like that and want take action.

2. It's very hard in that situation for Philippine officer on broad when they must take action very fast in that moment, hard to fire accurate a 52 caliber heavy gun by manual fire in sea like that.

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## jerry_tan

*PCG describes Balintang Channel incident - 'like a scene from an action movie'*
By Leonard D. Postrado
Published: May 16, 2013
Pingtung,TAIWAN - Taiwan policemen inspect bullet holes on the damaged "Guang Ta Hsin 28 " fishing boat (C) at Liuqiu harbor, southern Pingtung county early on May 11, 2013. The Philippines admitted on May 10 that its coastguard fired at a Taiwanese fishing boat in an incident that authorities in Taipei said left a crewman dead and triggered widespread outrage on the island. AFP PHOTO

The way the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) described the May 9 shooting of Taiwanese fishermen off the coast of Balintang island was like telling a scene out of an action movie: a government vessel precariously dodging two fishing boats that tried to sink the law enforcer's ship as they engaged the bad guys in a high seas chase.

A three-page, incident report of the PCG that was obtained by the Manila Bulletin from a PCG insider showed how the Taiwanese fishermen violently and dangerously tried to evade their arrest after they were caught poaching at the sea located some 39 nautical miles off Bantayan Island.

The report, which was corroborated by a video on the maritime incident in Balintang Channel last May 9 that resulted to the death of a 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman, was among the documents submitted by the PCG to the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) since the bureau commenced its investigation on Wednesday. 

&#8220;One of the Taiwanese vessel maneuvered to ramp our starboard bow. This unit executed reverse [gear] to avoid collision,&#8221; said the PCG report. 

Based on the report, the MCS-3001, a 35-meter vessel jointly manned by the Coast Guard and personnel from the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR), set sail in the northern part of Batanes last May 8, 2013, to conduct seaborne patrol and monitoring control and surveillance against illegal fishing. 

The following day, the PCG-BFAR spotted several radio beacon with two floating buoy markers some 39 nautical miles, east of Balintang Islands. They suspected that the buoys were long lines of Taiwanese fishing vessels. Soon after spotting the buoys, the PCG-BFAR was able to find the location of the Taiwanese fishing boats. 

They claimed that the Taiwanese fishermen had resisted to stop from their tracks while local sea authorities repeatedly fired warning shots in mid-air and blared their vessel's horn at the foreigners. 

&#8220;While on meeting situation, this unit then sounded warning through PA system and blow horn for the Taiwanese fishing vessel to stop for the conduct of fishing.. [The PCG] fired warning shots to alert the fishing vessel until the fishing vessel stopped and one of the crew of the fishing vesseel went outside,&#8221; the PCG said. 

But when the MCS-3001 vessel of PCG-BFAR was almost alongside of one of the fishing boat named Guang Ta Hsin-28, the PCG claimed that the engine of the Taiwanese vessel whirred to life, and the boat manuevered backward before speeding forward and it almost collided with the government ship's stern.

The patient Philippine authorities fired another round of warning shots but the Taiwanese vessel resisted to stop and engaged the PCG-BFAR in a high-speed sea chase. As a result, the commanding officer of the MCS-3001 ordered to open fire at Guang Ta Hsin-28 to disable its engine but accidentally killed Taiwanese fisherman named Hung Shih-cheng. 

&#8220;To stop the fishing vessel, this unit announced to fire for effects the engine side section of said Taiwanese fishing vessel to immobilize her [boat] and stop her [boat] engine,&#8221; the report said. 

While chasing after Guang Ta Hsin, the PCG-BFAR spotted at least two, new unidentified boats - one white and one gray &#8211; and this prompt them to disengage from their chase and leave as they were already outnumbered. 

Meanwhile, a Department of Justice (DOJ) source, who refused to be named for the lack of authority to speak, confirmed that the NBI had already interviewed at least five to seven BFAR personnel who were with the PCG during the May 9, 2013 high-sea shooting incident. 

The source said that the testimony of BFAR personnel will be useful in order for probers to determine the truthfulness of the three-page report submitted by the PCG and on whether the Coast Guard observed the so-called rules of engagement. 

&#8220;Very crucial ang testimony nila kasi what we will know from them what could be the basis of the coast guard to fire at the Taiwanese. BFAR owned the vessel but the Coast Guard manages it so the PCG is in control at the time of the incident,&#8221; the source explained. 

The source also confirmed that the NBI has already asked more or less than 15 PCG personnel to appear before the bureau today in order to give their seperate statements. 

On Wednesday, the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) said they have started a fact-finding investigation on the death of a 65-year old Taiwanese fisherman who was shot dead personnel of the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) last week after their fishing vessel strayed into Philippine territorial waters. 

NBI Director Nonnatus Caesar Rojas said the composite team made up of agents, technical people, forensic experts and lawyers is headed by NBI Deputy Director for Regional Operation Services Atty. Virgilio Mendez. 

&#8220;We have to do this investigation as fast as we can, We are ready with this. All out ang effort dito and this would involve as many bureau personnel and as much resources as we can in order to finished this as soon as possible to come up with a credible and exhaustive result,&#8221; Rojas told reporters yesterday afternoon. 

As a fact-finding probe, Rojas said the team would investigate the circumstances surrounding the incident , the reason why the death happened and other surrounding circumstances and other matter related to the case. 

He said they have already made preliminary discussions with the PCG on the investigation and that the PCG Commandant Rear Admiral Rodolfo Isorena has assured them of their cooperation. 

&#8220;As far as the NBI is concerned we would do a credible, exhaustive, honest-to-goodness investigation and we are also very thankful to the PCG that they have signified this early their full cooperation and support,&#8221; he added. 

For his part, Mendez said they have made a request to the PCG for the turn-over of the firearms of the Coast Guard personnel on board the patrol craft that figured in the incident with the Taiwanese fishing vessel at Balintang Channel near Batanes in extreme Northern Luzon. 

Killed the incident was Hung Shih-cheng. His son-in-law and an Indonesian fisherman were also on board the vessel &#8220;Kuang Ta Hsing No.28 when the shots were fired. 

&#8220;That is the action that we initially took. We made a formal request for documents and the turn-over of firearms,&#8221; Mendez said adding that they were assured by Isorena of their cooperation.

He said they also asked the PCG to furnish them the list of the crew of the patrol craft and pictures and videos of the incident if there are. 

Mendez also said that they are prepared to send a team to Taiwan if they will be able to acquire the necessary clearance so that they can also take a look at the fishing vessel and interview their crew. 

There are currently 87,000 OFWs Taiwan, mostly working in the electronics and textile industry sectors, and labor authorities said nearly 2,000 new applications are submitted monthly. 

Two years ago, Taiwan also temporarily expanded the screening period for OFWs and threatened to freeze hiring over a diplomatic row sparked when Manila deported Taiwanese nationals involved in a scam to China.


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## shuttler

the report above is absurb. the statements are manufactured

why the philippines government does not allow a joint investigation?


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## 3310

shuttler said:


> the prima facie evidence is the crew on the pcg are insane, reckless and brutal
> the government of the philippines are inept, lying and insincere
> they may also be indicted on counts of falsifying evidences (the video and others) and obstruction of the course of justice
> The court proceedings are just the last procedure to give verdicts to the criminals



you and your prejudice on the case. why dismiss the other side's statement that easily? You even haven't seen the video of the incident.(i doubt that it will be made public. i think the taiwanese investigators were allowed to see the video. notice the absence of the clamor for the supposed video evidence ) .



sorry, our justice system is way different from PRC's. We try individuals here to know if he is guilty or not.


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## 3310

shuttler said:


> you are manipulative trying to defy the truthfulness of the event
> if you are not put under sanctions, the criminals would have escaped from the justice of the world (under the protection of your inept government) FOREVER!



what's the truth? we don't even know it yet. both governments are on the case. The investigations hasn't yet concluded.

it would help if you would listen to others, not just what you want the "truth" should be.

the threat sanctions was new, it did not force us to do the investigation.

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## Leonhart

United States lawmakers urges Philippines to apologize. Uh oh, your daddy has spoken. Now do as we say or else


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## 3310

shuttler said:


> the report above is absurb. the statements are manufactured
> 
> why the philippines government does not allow a joint investigation?



who said the government didn't allow a joint investigation? the TW authorities were here. Is that what you call truth?


----------



## 3310

The government did already apologize, but the Taiwan government keeps on rejecting it.


----------



## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> If the Philippine BFAR crew DID NOT fire at the TAIWANESE FISHING BOAT, they would have been rammed and possibly might have been KILLED or injured seriously. I salute those FILIPINOS for their BREVARY in defending the SOVEREIGNTY of the NATION.
> 
> Again, the TW BOAT CAPTAIN'S VIOLENT BEHAVIOR and illegal entry CAUSED his life
> 
> Taiwan deserves SYMPATHY but not an APOLOGY!



this is why Taiwan should assert its authorities over any and all disputed areas, destroy any manun warships/ planes that come close, and arrest all manun fishing boats in the area for poaching.



filipino_american said:


> Taiwan DOES NOT DESERVE any FORM of APOLOGY at all.
> 
> First of all, the TAIWANESE vessel ENTERED the Philippine TERRITORIAL WATERS.
> 
> Under INTERNATIONAL LAW, the Territorial Waters of the Philippines are SOLELY under the DIRECT JURISDICTION OF THE PHILIPPINES. FISHING IN THE AREA IS EXCLUSIVE TO THE FILIPINOS ONLY. NO FOREIGN NATIONALS ALLOWED.
> 
> The Philippines is an Archipelagic NATION and that is why it has more territorial waters compared to the other countries.
> 
> 
> The TAIWANESE vessel tried to RAM the Phil's small BFAR BOAT (not even a Cost Guard) and that justified the SHOOTING of the engine. The Captain of the TAIWANESE SHIP WAS just in the wrong place.
> 
> The statement of RAMMING is VERY LIKELY as the sizes of both Taiwan fishing boat and the Phil BFAR boat were ALMOST the SAME.
> 
> Also, the SANCTIONS will not AFFECT the Philippines MOST, it will affect TAIWAN MOST.
> 
> Taiwan is NOT a recognized country, most countries DONT HAVE RELATIONS with TAIWAN.
> 
> The Philippines is the NEWEST RISING ASIAN TIGER according to the world bank.
> 
> 
> Fil. OFWs are VERY MARKETABLE as they are VERY FLUENT in ENGLISH. They can JUST GO EASILY to any country accepting OFWs like JAPAN, SINGAPORE, the middle east etc.
> 
> Taiwan is NOT A MAJOR Phil. trading partner and "NOT" one of the "MOST" OFW "favorite" destinations.
> 
> As I've said, the Philippines is a RISING TIGER. The Philippines is continuously resisting the slowing economy of the world. Surprisingly, its economy GREW more than expected last time I checked the news (even with CHINA'S SANCTION last year). The Philippines is the second fastest growing economy in ASIA after China, THE NEWEST RISING TIGER, and according to the exerts the STRONGEST ECONOMY in ASIA today. The Philippines is expected to become the world's 14th largest economy in the world by 2050 according to not just one economist but a lot including WORLD recognized agencies like the world bank, imf, hsbc etc.
> 
> Taiwan NEEDS FILIPINOS but the PHILIPPINES dont need TAIWAN that much.
> 
> 
> The TAIWANESE PRESIDENT must be crazy.
> 
> The Philippines HEAVILY SUPPORTED ROC over PRC. Taiwan DID NOT THINK.
> 
> it should be this way:
> 
> 1. Taiwan should APOLOGIZE to the Philippines FOR "illegally" ENTERING ITS TERRITORIAL WATERS.
> 
> 2. Taiwan should APOLOGIZE to the Philippines FOR NOT EDUCATING ITS PEOPLE THAT THEY INDEED ENTERED WATERS THAT WERE NOT THEIRS under INTERNATIONAL LAW.
> 
> 3. Taiwan should APOLOGIZE to the Philippines FOR TRYING TO RAM their vessel hence ENDANGERING the lives of the BFAR'S crew who were just doing their job.
> 
> 
> Taiwan has too much PRIDE, they should ADMIT THE FACT that the DEATH of their countrymen was the RESULT of their ILLEGAL ENTRY and their VIOLENT (ramming) behavior.
> 
> I support the STATEMENT:
> 
> Taiwan DESERVES SYMPATHY but NOT APOLOGY!
> 
> The Phil Gov SHOULD HAVE NEVER APOLOGIZED to TAIWAN.



This guy alone should be a good reason to take over all islands north of the 30th parallel


----------



## sonicbomb

3310 said:


> who said the government didn't allow a joint investigation? the TW authorities were here. Is that what you call truth?



2013-05-15 09:30:30 AM
Taiwan has slammed Manila's response to the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters as less than formal or sincere, and says it is recalling its representative and will discourage travel to the Philippines.

Premier Jiang Yi-huah said Wednesday that the government was displeased with the informal apology delivered early in the day by the Philippine representative office in Taipei.

Chiang said Taiwan will not accept anything short of a Philippine government apology.

Philippine coast guard personnel opened fire on a Taiwanese fishing vessel in the Bashi Strait last Thursday, killing the fisherman.

Chiang said the navy and coast guard will stage an exercise in the area to show Taiwan's naval strength. He said a hiring freeze of Philippine workers in Taiwan will also take effecT.

The Philippines' de facto Ambassador to Taipei, Antonio Basilio, had arrived on Tuesday at the Taiwanese Ministry of Foreign affairs in Taipei to deliver a letter of goodwill towards Taiwan.

*At a joint news conference with Taiwanese Foreign Minister David Lin, Basilio said the Philippines government had agreed to pay compensation to the fisherman's family and promised a joint investigation into the incident.*

The Philippines coast guard opened fire on a Taiwanese fishing vessel in the Bashi Strait last Thursday, killing 65-year-old Hung Shih-cheng.

The strait is between Taiwan and the northern Philippines.

The Philippines coast guard admitted it fired the shots that killed the fisherman, but said it acted in self-defence because the Taiwanese vessel was about to ram it.


Taiwan's foreign minister David Lin said its response to the shooting would be fully formed once Chairman Perez had arrived in Taipei and verified issues that the Taiwanese government had requested.


Updated May 16, 2013 - 10:00pm

MANILA, Philippines (Xinhua) - *The Philippines turned down today Taiwan's request of participating in the investigation into the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine Coast Guard last week.*

Responding to a question on the arrival of Taiwanese investigators for a joint probe into the shooting incident, Philippine Presidential Spokesman Edwin Lacierda denied that a joint investigation of the incident had been approved.

"I'm not aware of any approval of any joint investigation," Lacierda said, adding, "As far as I know, Secretary of Justice Leila de Lima has not been made aware of the presence of the investigators."

He said there are protocols to be observed under a Mutual Legal Assistance arrangement.

On another occasion, the justice secretary told reporters today, "I don't think we can agree to a joint investigation because we're a sovereign country. We have our own processes. We have our own justice system."


*from day one, your government kept changing their statement . smh*


----------



## Leonhart

sonicbomb said:


> 2013-05-15 09:30:30 AM
> Taiwan has slammed Manila's response to the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters as less than formal or sincere, and says it is recalling its representative and will discourage travel to the Philippines.
> 
> Premier Jiang Yi-huah said Wednesday that the government was displeased with the informal apology delivered early in the day by the Philippine representative office in Taipei.
> 
> Chiang said Taiwan will not accept anything short of a Philippine government apology.
> 
> Philippine coast guard personnel opened fire on a Taiwanese fishing vessel in the Bashi Strait last Thursday, killing the fisherman.
> 
> Chiang said the navy and coast guard will stage an exercise in the area to show Taiwan's naval strength. He said a hiring freeze of Philippine workers in Taiwan will also take effecT.
> 
> The Philippines' de facto Ambassador to Taipei, Antonio Basilio, had arrived on Tuesday at the Taiwanese Ministry of Foreign affairs in Taipei to deliver a letter of goodwill towards Taiwan.
> 
> *At a joint news conference with Taiwanese Foreign Minister David Lin, Basilio said the Philippines government had agreed to pay compensation to the fisherman's family and promised a joint investigation into the incident.*
> 
> The Philippines coast guard opened fire on a Taiwanese fishing vessel in the Bashi Strait last Thursday, killing 65-year-old Hung Shih-cheng.
> 
> The strait is between Taiwan and the northern Philippines.
> 
> The Philippines coast guard admitted it fired the shots that killed the fisherman, but said it acted in self-defence because the Taiwanese vessel was about to ram it.
> 
> 
> Taiwan's foreign minister David Lin said its response to the shooting would be fully formed once Chairman Perez had arrived in Taipei and verified issues that the Taiwanese government had requested.
> 
> 
> Updated May 16, 2013 - 10:00pm
> 
> MANILA, Philippines (Xinhua) - *The Philippines turned down today Taiwan's request of participating in the investigation into the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine Coast Guard last week.*
> 
> Responding to a question on the arrival of Taiwanese investigators for a joint probe into the shooting incident, Philippine Presidential Spokesman Edwin Lacierda denied that a joint investigation of the incident had been approved.
> 
> "I'm not aware of any approval of any joint investigation," Lacierda said, adding, "As far as I know, Secretary of Justice Leila de Lima has not been made aware of the presence of the investigators."
> 
> He said there are protocols to be observed under a Mutual Legal Assistance arrangement.
> 
> On another occasion, the justice secretary told reporters today, "I don't think we can agree to a joint investigation because we're a sovereign country. We have our own processes. We have our own justice system."
> 
> 
> *from day one, your government kept changing their statement . smh*



USA supporting Taiwan now. Pinoy government have no one else to run to


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## 3310

sdjd2013 said:


> this is why Taiwan should assert its authorities over any and all disputed areas, destroy any manun warships/ planes that come close, and arrest all manun fishing boats in the area for poaching.



Please tone down the warmongering rhetoric.

a clearer satellite image of the Philippines
1.bp.blogspot.com/-6WUIBiYCk9Y/UY9JXiLtQ8I/AAAAAAABGt8/bu4MoF848zc/s1600/Taiwanese%2BFishermen%2BShoot%2BDead%2Bby%2BPhilippine%2BCoast%2BGuard%2B%2509in%2BBalintang%2BChannel%2Bin%2Bthe%2BPhilippines-725051.png

and where the incident took place.
i42.tinypic.com/rrsizq.jpg

tell me if it happened in disputed waters or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## sdjd2013

jerry_tan said:


> *PCG describes Balintang Channel incident - 'like a scene from an action movie'*
> By Leonard D. Postrado
> Published: May 16, 2013
> Pingtung,TAIWAN - Taiwan policemen inspect bullet holes on the damaged "Guang Ta Hsin 28 " fishing boat (C) at Liuqiu harbor, southern Pingtung county early on May 11, 2013. The Philippines admitted on May 10 that its coastguard fired at a Taiwanese fishing boat in an incident that authorities in Taipei said left a crewman dead and triggered widespread outrage on the island. AFP PHOTO
> 
> The way the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) described the May 9 shooting of Taiwanese fishermen off the coast of Balintang island was like telling a scene out of an action movie: a government vessel precariously dodging two fishing boats that tried to sink the law enforcer's ship as they engaged the bad guys in a high seas chase.
> 
> A three-page, incident report of the PCG that was obtained by the Manila Bulletin from a PCG insider showed how the Taiwanese fishermen violently and dangerously tried to evade their arrest after they were caught poaching at the sea located some 39 nautical miles off Bantayan Island.
> 
> The report, which was corroborated by a video on the maritime incident in Balintang Channel last May 9 that resulted to the death of a 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman, was among the documents submitted by the PCG to the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) since the bureau commenced its investigation on Wednesday.
> 
> One of the Taiwanese vessel maneuvered to ramp our starboard bow. This unit executed reverse [gear] to avoid collision, said the PCG report.
> 
> Based on the report, the MCS-3001, a 35-meter vessel jointly manned by the Coast Guard and personnel from the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR), set sail in the northern part of Batanes last May 8, 2013, to conduct seaborne patrol and monitoring control and surveillance against illegal fishing.
> 
> The following day, the PCG-BFAR spotted several radio beacon with two floating buoy markers some 39 nautical miles, east of Balintang Islands. They suspected that the buoys were long lines of Taiwanese fishing vessels. Soon after spotting the buoys, the PCG-BFAR was able to find the location of the Taiwanese fishing boats.
> 
> They claimed that the Taiwanese fishermen had resisted to stop from their tracks while local sea authorities repeatedly fired warning shots in mid-air and blared their vessel's horn at the foreigners.
> 
> While on meeting situation, this unit then sounded warning through PA system and blow horn for the Taiwanese fishing vessel to stop for the conduct of fishing.. [The PCG] fired warning shots to alert the fishing vessel until the fishing vessel stopped and one of the crew of the fishing vesseel went outside, the PCG said.
> 
> But when the MCS-3001 vessel of PCG-BFAR was almost alongside of one of the fishing boat named Guang Ta Hsin-28, the PCG claimed that the engine of the Taiwanese vessel whirred to life, and the boat manuevered backward before speeding forward and it almost collided with the government ship's stern.
> 
> The patient Philippine authorities fired another round of warning shots but the Taiwanese vessel resisted to stop and engaged the PCG-BFAR in a high-speed sea chase. As a result, the commanding officer of the MCS-3001 ordered to open fire at Guang Ta Hsin-28 to disable its engine but accidentally killed Taiwanese fisherman named Hung Shih-cheng.
> 
> To stop the fishing vessel, this unit announced to fire for effects the engine side section of said Taiwanese fishing vessel to immobilize her [boat] and stop her [boat] engine, the report said.
> 
> While chasing after Guang Ta Hsin, the PCG-BFAR spotted at least two, new unidentified boats - one white and one gray  and this prompt them to disengage from their chase and leave as they were already outnumbered.
> 
> Meanwhile, a Department of Justice (DOJ) source, who refused to be named for the lack of authority to speak, confirmed that the NBI had already interviewed at least five to seven BFAR personnel who were with the PCG during the May 9, 2013 high-sea shooting incident.
> 
> The source said that the testimony of BFAR personnel will be useful in order for probers to determine the truthfulness of the three-page report submitted by the PCG and on whether the Coast Guard observed the so-called rules of engagement.
> 
> Very crucial ang testimony nila kasi what we will know from them what could be the basis of the coast guard to fire at the Taiwanese. BFAR owned the vessel but the Coast Guard manages it so the PCG is in control at the time of the incident, the source explained.
> 
> The source also confirmed that the NBI has already asked more or less than 15 PCG personnel to appear before the bureau today in order to give their seperate statements.
> 
> On Wednesday, the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) said they have started a fact-finding investigation on the death of a 65-year old Taiwanese fisherman who was shot dead personnel of the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) last week after their fishing vessel strayed into Philippine territorial waters.
> 
> NBI Director Nonnatus Caesar Rojas said the composite team made up of agents, technical people, forensic experts and lawyers is headed by NBI Deputy Director for Regional Operation Services Atty. Virgilio Mendez.
> 
> We have to do this investigation as fast as we can, We are ready with this. All out ang effort dito and this would involve as many bureau personnel and as much resources as we can in order to finished this as soon as possible to come up with a credible and exhaustive result, Rojas told reporters yesterday afternoon.
> 
> As a fact-finding probe, Rojas said the team would investigate the circumstances surrounding the incident , the reason why the death happened and other surrounding circumstances and other matter related to the case.
> 
> He said they have already made preliminary discussions with the PCG on the investigation and that the PCG Commandant Rear Admiral Rodolfo Isorena has assured them of their cooperation.
> 
> As far as the NBI is concerned we would do a credible, exhaustive, honest-to-goodness investigation and we are also very thankful to the PCG that they have signified this early their full cooperation and support, he added.
> 
> For his part, Mendez said they have made a request to the PCG for the turn-over of the firearms of the Coast Guard personnel on board the patrol craft that figured in the incident with the Taiwanese fishing vessel at Balintang Channel near Batanes in extreme Northern Luzon.
> 
> Killed the incident was Hung Shih-cheng. His son-in-law and an Indonesian fisherman were also on board the vessel Kuang Ta Hsing No.28 when the shots were fired.
> 
> That is the action that we initially took. We made a formal request for documents and the turn-over of firearms, Mendez said adding that they were assured by Isorena of their cooperation.
> 
> He said they also asked the PCG to furnish them the list of the crew of the patrol craft and pictures and videos of the incident if there are.
> 
> Mendez also said that they are prepared to send a team to Taiwan if they will be able to acquire the necessary clearance so that they can also take a look at the fishing vessel and interview their crew.
> 
> There are currently 87,000 OFWs Taiwan, mostly working in the electronics and textile industry sectors, and labor authorities said nearly 2,000 new applications are submitted monthly.
> 
> Two years ago, Taiwan also temporarily expanded the screening period for OFWs and threatened to freeze hiring over a diplomatic row sparked when Manila deported Taiwanese nationals involved in a scam to China.



This editorial is a joke, just like all the arguments made by all the Flips in here.
1) How can you describe a slaughter like an "action movie"? the boat was riddled with 50+ bullets from the Starboard side of an UNARMED fishing boat.
2) The fishing boat began running b/c from experience the 65 year old man didn't want to be arrested on a trumped up charge of "Forgery" of a fishing permit he paid a hefty price for to the Flip govt.
3) The boat was in disputed territory, so if you manuns think its okay to arrest and shoot at fishing boats in disputed water, then Taiwan should be allowed to do the same, so then I guess it depends on who has a better and more discipline military (I think everyone knows the answer).
4) the shooting occurred during a chase, as admitted by the manun rogue soldiers, who actually caught up to the fishing boat as the shots were fired at the starboard side of the fishing boat, which means they fired at close range. 

Of course these preliminary statements are disturbingly lacking in details, which would take more than "3 pages" to fill, one cannot help but ask: was it necessary to shoot at a fishing boat engine 52 times with unidentified high-power guns, like the M60, with metal piercing rounds, at close range, and at UNARMED CIVIILIANS???

PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION: FU CK NO, YOU MURDERING BASTARDS.


----------



## 3310

Leonhart said:


> USA supporting Taiwan now. Pinoy government have no one else to run to



They aren't the state department. So both PH and TW don't consider it as official.


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## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> Please tone down the warmongering rhetoric.
> 
> a clearer satellite image of the Philippines
> 1.bp.blogspot.com/-6WUIBiYCk9Y/UY9JXiLtQ8I/AAAAAAABGt8/bu4MoF848zc/s1600/Taiwanese%2BFishermen%2BShoot%2BDead%2Bby%2BPhilippine%2BCoast%2BGuard%2B%2509in%2BBalintang%2BChannel%2Bin%2Bthe%2BPhilippines-725051.png
> 
> and where the incident took place.
> i42.tinypic.com/rrsizq.jpg
> 
> tell me if it's disputed or not.
> 
> tell me if it happened in disputed waters or not.



believe me, it is in disputed waters. If not, then it will not be a dispute any more from now.


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## sonicbomb

so Taiwan authorities had examined the fisherman boat and found out that the fisherman boat was shot by PCG from behind and left side , i would love to see how the Filipinos going to explain the ramming/self defense thing now.......


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## 3310

sdjd2013 said:


> This editorial is a joke, just like all the arguments made by all the Flips in here.
> 1) How can you describe a slaughter like an "action movie"? the boat was riddled with 50+ bullets from the Starboard side of an UNARMED fishing boat.
> 2) The fishing boat began running b/c from experience the 65 year old man didn't want to be arrested on a trumped up charge of "Forgery" of a fishing permit he paid a hefty price for to the Flip govt.
> 3) The boat was in disputed territory, so if you manuns think its okay to arrest and shoot at fishing boats in disputed water, then Taiwan should be allowed to do the same, so then I guess it depends on who has a better and more discipline military (I think everyone knows the answer).
> 4) the shooting occurred during a chase, as admitted by the manun rogue soldiers, who actually caught up to the fishing boat as the shots were fired at the starboard side of the fishing boat, which means they fired at close range.
> 
> Of course these preliminary statements are disturbingly lacking in details, which would take more than "3 pages" to fill, one cannot help but ask: was it necessary to shoot at a fishing boat engine 52 times with unidentified high-power guns, like the M60, with metal piercing rounds, at close range, and at UNARMED CIVIILIANS???
> 
> PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION: FU CK NO, YOU MURDERING BASTARDS.



1. Our government authorities can be really insensitive.
2. where did you get that info. can you please give us links to that.
3. Maps that were shown to the Taiwanese public made it look like the incident took place far from the nearest Philippine coast.
a clearer satellite imagery.
1.bp.blogspot.com/-6WUIBiYCk9Y/UY9JXiLtQ8I/AAAAAAABGt8/bu4MoF848zc/s1600/Taiwanese%2BFishermen%2BShoot%2BDead%2Bby%2BPhilip pine%2BCoast%2BGuard%2B%2509in%2BBalintang%2BChann el%2Bin%2Bthe%2BPhilippines-725051.png

Info. an M60 can fire hundreds of rounds per minute.

If you carefully read the excerpt you posted. the shooting was justified *if* there was really an attempt to ram the CG ship.


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## sdjd2013

Pinoy said:


> This is already a tragedy that does not need over-exaggeration
> 
> Taiwan is the drama queen of Asia. LMAO!



we will see who gets the last laugh, you coconut


----------



## jerry_tan

sdjd2013 said:


> This editorial is a joke, just like all the arguments made by all the Flips in here.
> 1) How can you describe a slaughter like an "action movie"? the boat was riddled with 50+ bullets from the Starboard side of an UNARMED fishing boat.
> 2) The fishing boat began running b/c from experience the 65 year old man didn't want to be arrested on a trumped up charge of "Forgery" of a fishing permit he paid a hefty price for to the Flip govt.
> 3) The boat was in disputed territory, so if you manuns think its okay to arrest and shoot at fishing boats in disputed water, then Taiwan should be allowed to do the same, so then I guess it depends on who has a better and more discipline military (I think everyone knows the answer).
> 4) the shooting occurred during a chase, as admitted by the manun rogue soldiers, who actually caught up to the fishing boat as the shots were fired at the starboard side of the fishing boat, which means they fired at close range.
> 
> Of course these preliminary statements are disturbingly lacking in details, which would take more than "3 pages" to fill, one cannot help but ask: was it necessary to shoot at a fishing boat engine 52 times with unidentified high-power guns, like the M60, with metal piercing rounds, at close range, and at UNARMED CIVIILIANS???
> 
> PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION: FU CK NO, YOU MURDERING BASTARDS.



Truth hurts!!!!


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## 3310

sdjd2013 said:


> believe me, it is in disputed waters. If not, then it will not be a dispute any more from now.



if you look at the images. the incident took place well within PH waters. no one country can invoke their EEZ inside other countries' territorial waters. 

Even the TW government don't dispute this anymore, only the media.


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## Leonhart

3310 said:


> if you look at the images. the incident took place well within PH waters. no one country can invoke their EEZ inside other countries' territorial waters.
> 
> Even the TW government doesn't dispute this anymore, only the media.



Who are you kidding? Even the USA says it's disputed waters. Who do the Philippines have now? Repent!


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## longyi

Territorial water is only 12 miles


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## 3310

Leonhart said:


> Who are you kidding? Even the USA says it's disputed waters. Who do the Philippines have now? Repent!



when did the US say it is in disputed waters? who said it?


----------



## sdjd2013

3310 said:


> 1. Our government authorities can be really insensitive.
> 2. where did you get that info. can you please give us links to that.
> 3. Maps that were shown to the Taiwanese public made it look like the incident took place far from the nearest Philippine coast.
> a clearer satellite imagery.
> 1.bp.blogspot.com/-6WUIBiYCk9Y/UY9JXiLtQ8I/AAAAAAABGt8/bu4MoF848zc/s1600/Taiwanese%2BFishermen%2BShoot%2BDead%2Bby%2BPhilip pine%2BCoast%2BGuard%2B%2509in%2BBalintang%2BChann el%2Bin%2Bthe%2BPhilippines-725051.png
> 
> Info. an M60 can fire hundreds of rounds per minute.
> 
> If you carefully read the excerpt you posted. the shooting was justified *if* there was really an attempt to ram the CG ship.



you people have no logic or common sense:

1) Taiwanese fishermen interviewed by Taiwan media who lives on Xiao liuchio islands have all experienced arrests and extended jail times (2+ months) by your coconut, manun Fisheries on trumped up charges of "forgery" of fishing permits, which they legally bought from the same manun Dept. of Fisheries, at a premium, for the last 20 years. This is a routine that has gone on unnoticed by the world until now.

2) How can you look at a map and determine what is disputed and undisputed waters? You are so ******* stupid I'm not even gonna do your home work for you. Do yourself a favor and study more and save your self the embarrassment.

3) If what you say is true, that an M60 can fire hundreds of rounds per minute, then the question becomes do none of these manuns on board carry a lesser weapon? like a hand gun? Any gun can easily pierce through fiber glass and damage an engine part. Why can't you take care when you are shooting at civilians knowing you are threatening their lives???

4) WTF are you talking about read the post carefully if there is an attempt to ram? even assuming there was an attempt to ram then it is more likely that the shooting was a retaliation and not self-defense, b/c the boat was running away so how were the manun rogue soldiers in danger??

2)


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## Zero_wing



Reactions: Like Like:
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## 3310

sdjd2013 said:


> you people have no logic or common sense:
> 
> 1) Taiwanese fishermen interviewed by Taiwan media who lives on Xiao liuchio islands have all experienced arrests and extended jail times (2+ months) by your coconut, manun Fisheries on trumped up charges of "forgery" of fishing permits, which they legally bought from the same manun Dept. of Fisheries, at a premium, for the last 20 years. This is a routine that has gone on unnoticed by the world until now.
> 
> 2) How can you look at a map and determine what is disputed and undisputed waters? You are so ******* stupid I'm not even gonna do your home work for you. Do yourself a favor and study more and save your self the embarrassment.
> 
> 3) If what you say is true, that an M60 can fire hundreds of rounds per minute, then the question becomes do none of these manuns on board carry a lesser weapon? like a hand gun? Any gun can easily pierce through fiber glass and damage an engine part. Why can't you take care when you are shooting at civilians knowing you are threatening their lives???
> 
> 4) WTF are you talking about read the post carefully if there is an attempt to ram? even assuming there was an attempt to ram then it is more likely that the shooting was a retaliation and not self-defense, b/c the boat was running away so how were the manun rogue soldiers in danger??
> 
> 2)



1. that may be true.

2. it would be disputed if taiwan owns the islands surrounding the area where the incident took place. that area would also be disputed if there were no islands between the two countries. 

3. who would know if the boat was made of fiberglass or not? where's your "logic" there. The captain was is the engine room. They tried to shoot the engine. Humans don't have X-ray vision.

4. that's your assumption. it can be true or false. i'm still waiting for that supposed video evidence that would absolve the CG.


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## 3310

any links to that interview?


----------



## Zero_wing

3310 said:


> 1. that may be true.
> 
> 2. it would be disputed if taiwan owns the islands surrounding the area where the incident took place. that area would also be disputed if there were no islands between the two countries.
> 
> 3. who would know if the boat was made of fiberglass or not? where's your "logic" there. The captain was is the engine room. They tried to shoot the engine. Humans don't have X-ray vision.
> 
> 4. that's your assumption. it can be true or false. i'm still waiting for that supposed video evidence that would absolve the CG.


----------



## jerry_tan

sdjd2013 said:


> you people have no logic or common sense:
> 
> 1) Taiwanese fishermen interviewed by Taiwan media who lives on Xiao liuchio islands have all experienced arrests and extended jail times (2+ months) by your coconut, manun Fisheries on trumped up charges of "forgery" of fishing permits, which they legally bought from the same manun Dept. of Fisheries, at a premium, for the last 20 years. This is a routine that has gone on unnoticed by the world until now.




Why you need a fishing permit if you are in your territory, So this means a permit to poach inside Philippines water..


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## Zero_wing

jerry_tan said:


> Why you need a fishing permit if you are in your territory, So this means a permit to poach inside Philippines water..


----------



## sdjd2013

jerry_tan said:


> Why you need a fishing permit if you are in your territory, So this means a permit to poach inside Philippines water..



they only bought the permits to avoid a conflict, you coconut



sdjd2013 said:


> they only bought the permits to avoid a conflict, you coconut



but, its okay, now, b/c from now on they will not need a permit from your pseudo-government/ regime


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## 3310

That "video" would really clear things up. It would prove their innocence or guilt.

Those saying that it would be doctored or manufactured clearly won't accept anything less than a guilty verdict. the PH authorities would look like fools if they do those kinds of things.



sdjd2013 said:


> they only bought the permits to avoid a conflict, you coconut
> 
> 
> 
> but, its okay, now, b/c from now on they will not need a permit from your pseudo-government/ regime



i'm still waiting for links to that interview. even links to previous accounts of harassment by PH authorities. it's good to hear the stories of both sides.

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## sonicbomb

3310 said:


> That "video" would really clear things up. It would prove their innocence or guilt.
> 
> Those saying that it would be doctored or manufactured clearly won't accept anything less than a guilty verdict. the PH authorities would look like fools if they do those kinds of things.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm still waiting for links to that interview. even links to previous accounts of harassment by PH authorities. it's good to hear the stories of both sides.



nice to have people like you around here, so that we can have some intelligent discussion, too much trolling around atm


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## longyi

Since the existence of a video tape has leaked out, Aquino has NO CHOICE but to reveal it. That'll solved all the mysteries and heads will rolled on one side or the other but that's the only way forward.

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## Zero_wing

Well we have to wait i wanna see it too

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## jerry_tan

sdjd2013 said:


> they only bought the permits to avoid a conflict, you coconut
> 
> 
> 
> but, its okay, now, b/c from now on they will not need a permit from your pseudo-government/ regime



Then you admitted that your fishermen are inside the Philippines territory, I hope the Taiwanese media will apologize for lying to Taiwanese people and the world for spreading the wrong information about the location of the incident of poaching and shooting

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## Bob Ong

filipino_american said:


> Taiwan DOES NOT DESERVE any FORM of APOLOGY at all.
> 
> First of all, the TAIWANESE vessel ENTERED the Philippine TERRITORIAL WATERS.
> 
> Under INTERNATIONAL LAW, the Territorial Waters of the Philippines are SOLELY under the DIRECT JURISDICTION OF THE PHILIPPINES. FISHING IN THE AREA IS EXCLUSIVE TO THE FILIPINOS ONLY. NO FOREIGN NATIONALS ALLOWED.
> 
> The Philippines is an Archipelagic NATION and that is why it has more territorial waters compared to the other countries.
> 
> 
> The TAIWANESE vessel tried to RAM the Phil's small BFAR BOAT (not even a Cost Guard) and that justified the SHOOTING of the engine. The Captain of the TAIWANESE SHIP WAS just in the wrong place.
> 
> The statement of RAMMING is VERY LIKELY as the sizes of both Taiwan fishing boat and the Phil BFAR boat were ALMOST the SAME.
> 
> Also, the SANCTIONS will not AFFECT the Philippines MOST, it will affect TAIWAN MOST.
> 
> Taiwan is NOT a recognized country, most countries DONT HAVE RELATIONS with TAIWAN.
> 
> The Philippines is the NEWEST RISING ASIAN TIGER according to the world bank.
> 
> 
> Fil. OFWs are VERY MARKETABLE as they are VERY FLUENT in ENGLISH. They can JUST GO EASILY to any country accepting OFWs like JAPAN, SINGAPORE, the middle east etc.
> 
> Taiwan is NOT A MAJOR Phil. trading partner and "NOT" one of the "MOST" OFW "favorite" destinations.
> 
> As I've said, the Philippines is a RISING TIGER. The Philippines is continuously resisting the slowing economy of the world. Surprisingly, its economy GREW more than expected last time I checked the news (even with CHINA'S SANCTION last year). The Philippines is the second fastest growing economy in ASIA after China, THE NEWEST RISING TIGER, and according to the exerts the STRONGEST ECONOMY in ASIA today. The Philippines is expected to become the world's 14th largest economy in the world by 2050 according to not just one economist but a lot including WORLD recognized agencies like the world bank, imf, hsbc etc.
> 
> Taiwan NEEDS FILIPINOS but the PHILIPPINES dont need TAIWAN that much.
> 
> 
> The TAIWANESE PRESIDENT must be crazy.
> 
> The Philippines HEAVILY SUPPORTED ROC over PRC. Taiwan DID NOT THINK.
> 
> it should be this way:
> 
> 1. Taiwan should APOLOGIZE to the Philippines FOR "illegally" ENTERING ITS TERRITORIAL WATERS.
> 
> 2. Taiwan should APOLOGIZE to the Philippines FOR NOT EDUCATING ITS PEOPLE THAT THEY INDEED ENTERED WATERS THAT WERE NOT THEIRS under INTERNATIONAL LAW.
> 
> 3. Taiwan should APOLOGIZE to the Philippines FOR TRYING TO RAM their vessel hence ENDANGERING the lives of the BFAR'S crew who were just doing their job.
> 
> 
> Taiwan has too much PRIDE, they should ADMIT THE FACT that the DEATH of their countrymen was the RESULT of their ILLEGAL ENTRY and their VIOLENT (ramming) behavior.
> 
> I support the STATEMENT:
> 
> Taiwan DESERVES SYMPATHY but NOT APOLOGY!
> 
> The Phil Gov SHOULD HAVE NEVER APOLOGIZED to TAIWAN.


Well said 

The Philippine economy will continue to improve without Taiwan. Nor we need the Chinese poachers and thieves.

Anyway let me also share this interesting article:

Taiwan-Philippine economic exchanges may be deferred: minister - Taiwan News Online
*
Taiwan-Philippine economic exchanges may be deferred: minister*
Central News Agency 

Taipei, May 15 (CNA) Taiwan is considering suspending economic exchanges with the Philippines because of its handling of an attack by one of its government vessels on a Taiwanese fishing boat, Economics Minister Chang Chia-juch said Wednesday. If the Philippines does not provide satisfactory responses to Taiwan's demands related to the incident by 6 p.m. Wednesday, Taiwan will impose further sanctions against the Philippines, Chang said at a legislative hearing. Invitations of Philippine officials, subsidies for Philippine buyers to visit Taiwan, and investment solicitation and trade promotion activities could all be suspended or postponed until August at the earliest, the ministry said in a prepared document. The ministry has also stopped encouraging local businesses to invest in the Philippines, Chang said.

More far-reaching economic sanctions, however, could hurt Taiwan more than the Philippines. Bilateral trade between the two countries totaled US$10.97 billion in 2012, with Taiwan showing a US$6.77 billion trade surplus, according to government statistics. The Taipei-based Taiwan Institute of Economic Research cautioned recently that potential economic sanctions against the Philippines would likely have only a limited impact on the Philippine economy. Taiwan was the Philippines' 10th largest investor in 2012, injecting US$58.54 million into the Philippine economy last year, but that only accounted for 0.85 percent of foreign investment in the country. In addition, around 10 million Filipinos work overseas, but only 87,000 of them work in Taiwan, also limiting Taiwan's leverage, said Gordon Sun, director of the institute's macroeconomic forecasting center. "Imposing economic sanctions on the Philippines might not necessarily be in Taiwan's favor, and the Philippine economy might not be hurt as much as we expect," he told CNA on May 13. (By James Lee)


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## Zero_wing

jerry_tan said:


> Then you admitted that your fishermen are inside the Philippines territory, I hope the Taiwanese media will apologize for lying to Taiwanese people and the world for spreading the wrong information about the location of the incident of poaching and shooting



Ay na bokya! hahahahahahaha 





(property of Mckoyzzz)


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## sonicbomb

jerry_tan said:


> Then you admitted that your fishermen are inside the Philippines territory, I hope the Taiwanese media will apologize for lying to Taiwanese people and the world for spreading the wrong information about the location of the incident of poaching and shooting



Taiwan didn't lie. 

According to UNCLOS which gives some rules on the law of the sea ( signed by both Taiwan and the Philippines), territorial waters where the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource would cover only 12 nautical miles. I haven't calculated the distance from the Balintang Islands myself, but if effectively it is 43 NM, then the location of the incident is out of the territorial water, but inside
the Philippines exclusive economic zone (which is within 200 nm), where the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. Unfortunately it seems it is also in Taiwan's exclusive economic zone because the two countries are so close, and this created the conflict.

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## ChinaToday

Zero_wing said:


> Ay na bokya! hahahahahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (property of Mckoyzzz)



exactly what Malaysia did to banana men in sabu well done Malaysia, they shoot pinoys like dog


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## Bob Ong

sonicbomb said:


> 2013-05-15 09:30:30 AM
> Taiwan has slammed Manila's response to the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters as less than formal or sincere, and says it is recalling its representative and will discourage travel to the Philippines.
> 
> Premier Jiang Yi-huah said Wednesday that the government was displeased with the informal apology delivered early in the day by the Philippine representative office in Taipei.
> 
> Chiang said Taiwan will not accept anything short of a Philippine government apology.
> 
> Philippine coast guard personnel opened fire on a Taiwanese fishing vessel in the Bashi Strait last Thursday, killing the fisherman.
> 
> Chiang said the navy and coast guard will stage an exercise in the area to show Taiwan's naval strength. He said a hiring freeze of Philippine workers in Taiwan will also take effecT.
> 
> The Philippines' de facto Ambassador to Taipei, Antonio Basilio, had arrived on Tuesday at the Taiwanese Ministry of Foreign affairs in Taipei to deliver a letter of goodwill towards Taiwan.
> 
> *At a joint news conference with Taiwanese Foreign Minister David Lin, Basilio said the Philippines government had agreed to pay compensation to the fisherman's family and promised a joint investigation into the incident.*
> 
> The Philippines coast guard opened fire on a Taiwanese fishing vessel in the Bashi Strait last Thursday, killing 65-year-old Hung Shih-cheng.
> 
> The strait is between Taiwan and the northern Philippines.
> 
> The Philippines coast guard admitted it fired the shots that killed the fisherman, but said it acted in self-defence because the Taiwanese vessel was about to ram it.
> 
> 
> Taiwan's foreign minister David Lin said its response to the shooting would be fully formed once Chairman Perez had arrived in Taipei and verified issues that the Taiwanese government had requested.
> 
> 
> Updated May 16, 2013 - 10:00pm
> 
> MANILA, Philippines (Xinhua) - *The Philippines turned down today Taiwan's request of participating in the investigation into the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine Coast Guard last week.*
> 
> Responding to a question on the arrival of Taiwanese investigators for a joint probe into the shooting incident, Philippine Presidential Spokesman Edwin Lacierda denied that a joint investigation of the incident had been approved.
> 
> "I'm not aware of any approval of any joint investigation," Lacierda said, adding, "As far as I know, Secretary of Justice Leila de Lima has not been made aware of the presence of the investigators."
> 
> He said there are protocols to be observed under a Mutual Legal Assistance arrangement.
> 
> On another occasion, the justice secretary told reporters today, "I don't think we can agree to a joint investigation because we're a sovereign country. We have our own processes. We have our own justice system."
> 
> 
> *from day one, your government kept changing their statement . smh*


Check your source (Xinhua) ? China news source? what do we expect? 


How about this

*Taiwanese investigation team arrives in PH*
By Anjo Perez
Published: May 16, 2013

*A 14-man investigation team from Taiwan arrived in the country yesterday morning to look into the death of a 65-year old Taiwanese fisherman who was shot by a Philippine Coast Guard when the fishing boat they were in reportedly strayed into Philippine waters in the Balintang Channel last Thursday, May 9, 2013.*

The team which was headed by Perry Pei-hwang Shen, the Director General of Taiwan&#8217;s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, arrived before 10:00am yesterday aboard China Airlines flight CI701.

The investigation team, which consists of representatives from the Taiwanese government&#8217;s justice, police and maritime departments will be here to work with their local counterparts to determine the real cause of the incident that led to the shooting and eventual death of Hung Shih-cheng.

The fishing boat Hung Shih-cheng was in reportedly was hit by Philippine Coast Guard bullets more than 50 times forcing Taiwan authorities to call it as &#8220;slaughter.&#8221;

As a result of the killing, tension between the Philippines and Taiwan is at an all time high with Taipei threatening to undertake a naval exercise near Philippine waters.

The tension between the two countries has placed the over 200,000 Filipinos working in Taiwan at risk of losing their jobs. Reports reaching Manila revealed that the Taiwan government has already clamped down on the processing of new application of Filipinos intending to work there.

Even the Taiwanese people are showing displeasure over the incident as angry fishermen threw eggs at the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO) in Taipei.

In an attempt to salvage relations with Taiwan, President Benigno Aquino III sent MECO Representative Antonio Basilio to offer an apology and express &#8220;deep regret&#8221; over the incident. However, the apology was rejected by Taiwan reportedly due to lack of sincerity.

Taiwanese investigation team arrives in PH


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## Bob Ong

The incident happened deep in the Batanes Group of Islands. The islands were erased when shown by the Taiwanese media and they made it appear that the area is in disputed area. Your government-controlled media lied to you.


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## sonicbomb

Bob Ong said:


> Check your source (Xinhua) ? China news source? what do we expect?
> 
> 
> How about this
> 
> *Taiwanese investigation team arrives in PH*
> By Anjo Perez
> Published: May 16, 2013
> 
> *A 14-man investigation team from Taiwan arrived in the country yesterday morning to look into the death of a 65-year old Taiwanese fisherman who was shot by a Philippine Coast Guard when the fishing boat they were in reportedly strayed into Philippine waters in the Balintang Channel last Thursday, May 9, 2013.*
> 
> The team which was headed by Perry Pei-hwang Shen, the Director General of Taiwan&#8217;s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, arrived before 10:00am yesterday aboard China Airlines flight CI701.
> 
> The investigation team, which consists of representatives from the Taiwanese government&#8217;s justice, police and maritime departments will be here to work with their local counterparts to determine the real cause of the incident that led to the shooting and eventual death of Hung Shih-cheng.
> 
> The fishing boat Hung Shih-cheng was in reportedly was hit by Philippine Coast Guard bullets more than 50 times forcing Taiwan authorities to call it as &#8220;slaughter.&#8221;
> 
> As a result of the killing, tension between the Philippines and Taiwan is at an all time high with Taipei threatening to undertake a naval exercise near Philippine waters.
> 
> The tension between the two countries has placed the over 200,000 Filipinos working in Taiwan at risk of losing their jobs. Reports reaching Manila revealed that the Taiwan government has already clamped down on the processing of new application of Filipinos intending to work there.
> 
> Even the Taiwanese people are showing displeasure over the incident as angry fishermen threw eggs at the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO) in Taipei.
> 
> In an attempt to salvage relations with Taiwan, President Benigno Aquino III sent MECO Representative Antonio Basilio to offer an apology and express &#8220;deep regret&#8221; over the incident. However, the apology was rejected by Taiwan reportedly due to lack of sincerity.



smh, at least go read the news before you comment, your Justice Secretary claimed the Taiwanese investigation team went there on their own.

MANILA, Philippines&#8212;The Taiwanese government cannot just send investigators to the Philippines, Justice Secretary Leila De Lima said Thursday.
&#8220;They have to course through proper channels. They have to make an official request,&#8221; De Lima said pointing that the investigators should have coordinated with the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO).
&#8220;They cannot just come over,&#8221; she said.

De Lima issued the statement following reports that a 14-man investigation team from Taiwan arrived in the country to investigate the death of Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-Cheng. The fisherman was allegedly shot last May 9 in the disputed waters in the Bashi Strait off the northern Philippines.
This is not the first time that the Philippines had a diplomatic row with Taiwan.
In 2011, overseas Filipino workers in Taiwan were put at risk after Taiwan protested over the Philippines&#8217; deportation of 14 of its nationals to China.
The Taiwanese nationals were arrested in crack down raids in Makati, Paranaque, Muntinlupa and Quezon City. They are allegedly victimizing residents of the Chinese mainland in a modus operandi using internet and other telecommunication devices to access their victims and exact money from them. The NBI said the group netted some US$20.6-million.
However, the DOJ, a month after deporting the Taiwanese nationals dismissed the criminal case filed against them and 10 others which was filed by the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) and the Embassy of the People&#8217;s Republic of China.


from* INQUIRER.net* satisfy now?

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## Bob Ong

Leonhart said:


> United States lawmakers urges Philippines to apologize. Uh oh, your daddy has spoken. Now do as we say or else


Oh really that's why the *US lauds PH for expression of regret over Taiwan incident*

US lauds PH for expression of regret over Taiwan incident | Inquirer Global Nation

poor Taiwan! way to go daddy


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## Bob Ong

sonicbomb said:


> smh, at least go read the news before you comment, your Justice Secretary claimed the Taiwanese investigation team went there on their own.
> 
> MANILA, Philippines&#8212;The Taiwanese government cannot just send investigators to the Philippines, Justice Secretary Leila De Lima said Thursday.
> *&#8220;They have to course through proper channels. They have to make an official request,&#8221;* De Lima said pointing that the investigators should have coordinated with the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO).
> &#8220;They cannot just come over,&#8221; she said.
> 
> De Lima issued the statement following reports that a 14-man investigation team from Taiwan arrived in the country to investigate the death of Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-Cheng. The fisherman was allegedly shot last May 9 in the disputed waters in the Bashi Strait off the northern Philippines.
> This is not the first time that the Philippines had a diplomatic row with Taiwan.
> In 2011, overseas Filipino workers in Taiwan were put at risk after Taiwan protested over the Philippines&#8217; deportation of 14 of its nationals to China.
> The Taiwanese nationals were arrested in crack down raids in Makati, Paranaque, Muntinlupa and Quezon City. They are allegedly victimizing residents of the Chinese mainland in a modus operandi using internet and other telecommunication devices to access their victims and exact money from them. The NBI said the group netted some US$20.6-million.
> However, the DOJ, a month after deporting the Taiwanese nationals dismissed the criminal case filed against them and 10 others which was filed by the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) and the Embassy of the People&#8217;s Republic of China.
> 
> 
> from* INQUIRER.net* satisfy now?


OH poor TAIWAN... at least they were able to arrived here

I think you NEED to SANCTION the PHILIPPINES AGAIN because that's another SLAP on your FACE!

SORRY but we ONLY recognize CHINA not TAIWAN 

BYE BYE!


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## Bob Ong

Taiwan's President is crazy. He is just trying to fool his constituency to gain political capital out of this tragic incident. I heard he's satisfaction rating is fluctuating at an alarming rate in Taiwan

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## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> OH poor TAIWAN... at least they were able to arrived here
> 
> I think you NEED to SANCTION the PHILIPPINES AGAIN because that's another SLAP on your FACE!
> 
> SORRY but we ONLY recognize CHINA not TAIWAN
> 
> BYE BYE!



People like you should be the reason Taiwan take over all islets north of the 30t parallel, you stupid manun, do you think China will be any easier to deal with than Taiwan? Wait for China to land their paratroopers on your islands in South china seas, then let's see if you are still cavalier about this whole thing. 

Do you really think trespassing justifies killing? In that case Taiwan should shoot at any incoming vessels, civilian or not, coming from any manun islands.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> People like you should be the reason Taiwan take over all islets north of the 30t parallel, you stupid manun, do you think China will be any easier to deal with than Taiwan? Wait for China to land their paratroopers on your islands in South china seas, then let's see if you are still cavalier about this whole thing.
> 
> Do you really think trespassing justifies killing? In that case Taiwan should shoot at any incoming vessels, civilian or not, coming from any manun islands.


----------



## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> People like you should be the reason Taiwan take over all islets north of the 30t parallel, you stupid manun, do you think China will be any easier to deal with than Taiwan? Wait for China to land their paratroopers on your islands in South china seas, then let's see if you are still cavalier about this whole thing.
> 
> Do you really think trespassing justifies killing? In that case Taiwan should shoot at any incoming vessels, civilian or not, coming from any manun islands.


Well it's you! Your bullying tactics is escalating this incident, Your intention is to gain fishing access to Philippine waters. 

Don't worry China can't harm us. Besides we recognize their ONE-CHINA POLICY.

If China invades your country. No Taiwanese must be allowed entry to PH. No help to Taiwan must be provided. Let China's tanks rolled to Taiwan just like in Tiananmen Square. 

Poor lonely Taiwan doesn't even have a friend in ASIA

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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


>



I hope the Americans are monitoring this forum, cus your signage will earn points for Taiwan..



Bob Ong said:


> Well it's you! Your bullying tactics is escalating this incident, Your intention is to gain fishing access to Philippine waters.
> 
> Don't worry China can't harm us. Besides we recognize their ONE-CHINA POLICY.
> 
> If China invades your country. No Taiwanese must be allowed entry to PH. No help to Taiwan must be provided. Let China's tanks rolled to Taiwan just like in Tiananmen Square.
> 
> Poor lonely Taiwan doesn't even have a friend in ASIA



you are such a simpleton. Do you really think it's about fish? No, it's about justice, sovereignty, maritime rights, not FISH. But, of course you think with your belly and sleep on fish all day.

Believe me, manun country would be the last choice of any reasonable Taiwanese.


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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


>



done by an American manun


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## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> I hope the Americans are monitoring this forum, cus your signage will earn points for Taiwan..
> 
> 
> 
> you are such a simpleton. Do you really think it's about fish? No, it's about justice, sovereignty, maritime rights, not FISH. But, of course you think with your belly and sleep on fish all day.
> 
> Believe me, manun country would be the last choice of any reasonable Taiwanese.


Your acting irrational, it is not even new you've been poaching regularly at our surrounding sea. 

Your President sounds absurd in his demands. He's just governing a renegade Island and not a legitimate sovereign nation.

Taiwan should act more maturely and not condemning the entire Philippine nation for just one unfortunate incident. Imagine Taiwan will punish our thousands of OFW and give our government ultimatum.


----------



## gpit

Bob Ong said:


> Check your source (Xinhua) ? China news source? what do we expect?
> 
> 
> How about this
> 
> *Taiwanese investigation team arrives in PH*
> By Anjo Perez
> Published: May 16, 2013
> 
> *A 14-man investigation team from Taiwan arrived in the country yesterday morning to look into the death of a 65-year old Taiwanese fisherman who was shot by a Philippine Coast Guard when the fishing boat they were in reportedly strayed into Philippine waters in the Balintang Channel last Thursday, May 9, 2013.*
> 
> The team which was headed by Perry Pei-hwang Shen, the Director General of Taiwan&#8217;s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, arrived before 10:00am yesterday aboard China Airlines flight CI701.
> 
> The investigation team, which consists of representatives from the Taiwanese government&#8217;s justice, police and maritime departments will be here to work with their local counterparts to determine the real cause of the incident that led to the shooting and eventual death of Hung Shih-cheng.
> 
> The fishing boat Hung Shih-cheng was in reportedly was hit by Philippine Coast Guard bullets more than 50 times forcing Taiwan authorities to call it as &#8220;slaughter.&#8221;
> 
> As a result of the killing, tension between the Philippines and Taiwan is at an all time high with Taipei threatening to undertake a naval exercise near Philippine waters.
> 
> The tension between the two countries has placed the over 200,000 Filipinos working in Taiwan at risk of losing their jobs. Reports reaching Manila revealed that the Taiwan government has already clamped down on the processing of new application of Filipinos intending to work there.
> 
> Even the Taiwanese people are showing displeasure over the incident as angry fishermen threw eggs at the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO) in Taipei.
> 
> In an attempt to salvage relations with Taiwan, President Benigno Aquino III sent MECO Representative Antonio Basilio to offer an apology and express &#8220;deep regret&#8221; over the incident. However, the apology was rejected by Taiwan reportedly due to lack of sincerity.
> 
> Taiwanese investigation team arrives in PH



Pinoys already rejected joint investigation with Taiwan:

*PH: No joint probe with Taiwan yet*



> MANILA, Philippines &#8211; Presidential Spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said on Thursday, May 16, that *he has not yet received any approval for a joint investigation *between the Philippines and Taiwan over the death of a Taiwanese fisherman in Philippine waters.
> 
> Lacierda's comments came after reports that a 30-member Taiwan investigation team arrived in Manila on Thursday morning.
> 
> &#8220;I&#8217;m not aware of any approval of any joint investigation. There is an existing MLA (Mutual Legal Assistance) and they have to go through protocols,&#8221; Lacierda explained.
> 
> .....
> 
> http://www.rappler.com/nation/29386-ph-taiwan-joint-investigation



*Philippines faces 2nd wave of Taiwan sanctions*

MANILA, Philippines&#8212;The Philippines on Thursday braced itself for the fallout a day after Taiwan enacted a second wave of sanctions against the country to show dissatisfaction with Manila&#8217;s responses to its demands involving the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by Filipino coast guards in the Bashi Channel last week.

President Aquino formally apologized on Wednesday for the death of Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-cheng, but Taiwan rejected the apology and proceeded to take retaliatory measures against the Philippines.

The new sanctions included a travel alert urging Taiwanese not to visit the Philippines, suspension of high-level exchanges, economic and trade exchanges, fishery cooperation and scientific research cooperation projects, and the launch of a military drill in waters near northern Philippines.

The military exercises began Thursday, with two Lafayette frigates, one Kidd-class destroyer, two missile boats and a number of Mirage and Taiwan-made jet fighters taking part in maneuvers intended to show Taiwan&#8217;s anger over the killing of Hung and to boost President Ma Ying-jeou&#8217;s sagging approval rating.

In Manila, the military declined to comment on the Taiwanese drill, saying it did not know whether the Taiwanese vessels were in international or Philippine waters.

On Wednesday, Taiwan froze the hiring of Filipino migrant workers and demanded that the Philippines formally apologize for the killing of Hung, compensate his family, punish the killers, and start fishing talks between the two sides soon.

Extra mile

After learning Thursday that Taiwan rejected President Aquino&#8217;s apology, Malacañang said it had &#8220;gone an extra mile&#8221; to try to appease Taipei and expressed concern that a special envoy sent to the Taiwanese capital on Wednesday had been rebuffed.

Manila Economic and Cultural Office Chairman Amadeo Perez traveled to Taipei on Wednesday carrying a letter of apology from President Aquino but failed to see the Taiwanese foreign minister and Hung&#8217;s family.

&#8220;The President sent a personal representative to extend his apology to the family of Mr. Hung Shih-chen, and we have acted uprightly and decently as a respectable member of the international community,&#8221; said presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda.

Lacierda did not say whether Perez&#8217;s mission was the last for Manila in seeking to appease Taipei.

&#8220;We&#8217;re prepared for contingencies,&#8221; he said, but did not make clear whether he was referring to an expected backlash on the 42,000 Filipinos working in Taiwan.

Clarifying Taiwan&#8217;s labor sanction, Labor Secretary Rosalinda Baldoz said Taipei did not freeze but only slowed down the hiring of Filipino workers.

&#8220;Taiwan is still open to accepting Filipino workers, although at a slower pace,&#8221; Baldoz said in a phone interview.

US concerned

The new tensions between the Philippines and Taiwan have placed their common ally, the United States, into something of a bind. The Department of State said on Wednesday that it was concerned by the increase in tensions between its two close partners and urged them to resolve their differences as expeditiously as they could.

US Ambassador to the Philippines Harry Thomas on Thursday lauded President Aquino for apologizing for the killing of Hung and said he was confident that the two sides would eventually iron out this rough patch in their relationship.

Perez issued a statement saying he went to Taipei to convey Aquino&#8217;s and the Filipinos&#8217; &#8220;deep regret and apology (for) the unfortunate and unintended loss of life&#8221; as Philippine authorities enforced fisheries laws last Thursday.

He said the Philippines was ready to give financial assistance to Hung&#8217;s family &#8220;as a token of solidarity and as an expression of sympathy of the Filipino people for the demise of Mr. Hung.&#8221;

Perez said he handed Aquino&#8217;s letter to Benjamin Ho, director general of the Taiwanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, on Wednesday night.

Unacceptable

The Taiwanese newspaper, China Post, reported Thursday that Premier Jiang Yi-huah was disappointed that Malacañang called the killing of Hung &#8220;unfortunate&#8221; and &#8220;unintended.&#8221;

&#8220;We cannot accept this kind of explanation. The bullet-riddled boat is evidence that it was an act of strafing. Although the Philippine government issued a formal apology, they also claimed that it was unintended and unfortunate incident. We think they are attempting to mitigate the severity of the incident and divert people&#8217;s attention. Furthermore, their ambiguous response to our demands shows that they are insincere in their apology,&#8221; Jiang said.

Taiwan on Tuesday ordered home the Philippines&#8217; de facto ambassador to Taipei, Antonio Basilio, but the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA), which still has to say anything about the fresh tensions between Taiwan and the Philippines, had not acknowledged it as an expulsion.

Lacierda could not say if Basilio had been expelled, saying he learned about Basilio&#8217;s return to Manila only from the news.

NBI investigation

President Aquino has ordered the National Bureau of Investigation to look into the killing of Hung and resolve the case as soon as possible.

Justice Secretary Leila de Lima told reporters on Thursday that the NBI investigation was &#8220;basically a fact-finding one&#8221; to determine the &#8220;culpability and liability&#8221; of the coast guards involved in the shooting death of Hung.

&#8220;What [made them shoot]? Why did someone die?&#8221; De Lima said, explaining the objective of the NBI investigation.

China Post reported that a team of Taiwanese investigators had arrived in Manila to join the Philippine investigation, but De Lima said she was not aware that Taiwan had asked for a joint investigation.

De Lima said she did not think the government would agree to a joint investigation.

&#8220;We are a sovereign country, we have our own processes, we have our own justice system, and we are already conducting our own investigation. We would not want to have anyone interfering in the NBI investigation,&#8221; she said.

The government has relieved 11 coast guards and two Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) employees involved in the killing.

Video of incident

A video footage of the incident has been submitted to the NBI.

Virgilio Mendez, NBI deputy director for regional services, confirmed Thursday that the bureau had the video, but declined to speak about its content, as this still needed verification.

He said the relieved coastguards and BFAR employees would appear at the NBI on Friday for questioning on the incident.&#8212;With reports from Christine O. Avendaño, Tarra Quismundo, Nancy C. Carvajal, Tina G. Santos, AP and China Post/ANN

Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/74727/philippines-faces-2nd-wave-of-taiwan-sanctions#ixzz2TUFH8Mxi
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http://globalnation.inquirer.net/74727/philippines-faces-2nd-wave-of-taiwan-sanctions


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## 3310

Our government is famous for the lack of coordination between agencies. They also like tapes, those red colored ones.


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## Bob Ong

gpit said:


> Pinoys already rejected joint investigation with Taiwan:
> 
> *PH: No joint probe with Taiwan yet*
> 
> 
> *Philippines faces 2nd wave of Taiwan sanctions*
> 
> MANILA, Philippines&#8212;The Philippines on Thursday braced itself for the fallout a day after Taiwan enacted a second wave of sanctions against the country to show dissatisfaction with Manila&#8217;s responses to its demands involving the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by Filipino coast guards in the Bashi Channel last week.
> 
> President Aquino formally apologized on Wednesday for the death of Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-cheng, but Taiwan rejected the apology and proceeded to take retaliatory measures against the Philippines.
> 
> The new sanctions included a travel alert urging Taiwanese not to visit the Philippines, suspension of high-level exchanges, economic and trade exchanges, fishery cooperation and scientific research cooperation projects, and the launch of a military drill in waters near northern Philippines.
> 
> The military exercises began Thursday, with two Lafayette frigates, one Kidd-class destroyer, two missile boats and a number of Mirage and Taiwan-made jet fighters taking part in maneuvers intended to show Taiwan&#8217;s anger over the killing of Hung and to boost President Ma Ying-jeou&#8217;s sagging approval rating.
> 
> In Manila, the military declined to comment on the Taiwanese drill, saying it did not know whether the Taiwanese vessels were in international or Philippine waters.
> 
> On Wednesday, Taiwan froze the hiring of Filipino migrant workers and demanded that the Philippines formally apologize for the killing of Hung, compensate his family, punish the killers, and start fishing talks between the two sides soon.
> 
> Extra mile
> 
> After learning Thursday that Taiwan rejected President Aquino&#8217;s apology, Malacañang said it had &#8220;gone an extra mile&#8221; to try to appease Taipei and expressed concern that a special envoy sent to the Taiwanese capital on Wednesday had been rebuffed.
> 
> Manila Economic and Cultural Office Chairman Amadeo Perez traveled to Taipei on Wednesday carrying a letter of apology from President Aquino but failed to see the Taiwanese foreign minister and Hung&#8217;s family.
> 
> &#8220;The President sent a personal representative to extend his apology to the family of Mr. Hung Shih-chen, and we have acted uprightly and decently as a respectable member of the international community,&#8221; said presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda.
> 
> Lacierda did not say whether Perez&#8217;s mission was the last for Manila in seeking to appease Taipei.
> 
> &#8220;We&#8217;re prepared for contingencies,&#8221; he said, but did not make clear whether he was referring to an expected backlash on the 42,000 Filipinos working in Taiwan.
> 
> Clarifying Taiwan&#8217;s labor sanction, Labor Secretary Rosalinda Baldoz said Taipei did not freeze but only slowed down the hiring of Filipino workers.
> 
> &#8220;Taiwan is still open to accepting Filipino workers, although at a slower pace,&#8221; Baldoz said in a phone interview.
> 
> US concerned
> 
> The new tensions between the Philippines and Taiwan have placed their common ally, the United States, into something of a bind. The Department of State said on Wednesday that it was concerned by the increase in tensions between its two close partners and urged them to resolve their differences as expeditiously as they could.
> 
> US Ambassador to the Philippines Harry Thomas on Thursday lauded President Aquino for apologizing for the killing of Hung and said he was confident that the two sides would eventually iron out this rough patch in their relationship.
> 
> Perez issued a statement saying he went to Taipei to convey Aquino&#8217;s and the Filipinos&#8217; &#8220;deep regret and apology (for) the unfortunate and unintended loss of life&#8221; as Philippine authorities enforced fisheries laws last Thursday.
> 
> He said the Philippines was ready to give financial assistance to Hung&#8217;s family &#8220;as a token of solidarity and as an expression of sympathy of the Filipino people for the demise of Mr. Hung.&#8221;
> 
> Perez said he handed Aquino&#8217;s letter to Benjamin Ho, director general of the Taiwanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, on Wednesday night.
> 
> Unacceptable
> 
> The Taiwanese newspaper, China Post, reported Thursday that Premier Jiang Yi-huah was disappointed that Malacañang called the killing of Hung &#8220;unfortunate&#8221; and &#8220;unintended.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;We cannot accept this kind of explanation. The bullet-riddled boat is evidence that it was an act of strafing. Although the Philippine government issued a formal apology, they also claimed that it was unintended and unfortunate incident. We think they are attempting to mitigate the severity of the incident and divert people&#8217;s attention. Furthermore, their ambiguous response to our demands shows that they are insincere in their apology,&#8221; Jiang said.
> 
> Taiwan on Tuesday ordered home the Philippines&#8217; de facto ambassador to Taipei, Antonio Basilio, but the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA), which still has to say anything about the fresh tensions between Taiwan and the Philippines, had not acknowledged it as an expulsion.
> 
> Lacierda could not say if Basilio had been expelled, saying he learned about Basilio&#8217;s return to Manila only from the news.
> 
> NBI investigation
> 
> President Aquino has ordered the National Bureau of Investigation to look into the killing of Hung and resolve the case as soon as possible.
> 
> Justice Secretary Leila de Lima told reporters on Thursday that the NBI investigation was &#8220;basically a fact-finding one&#8221; to determine the &#8220;culpability and liability&#8221; of the coast guards involved in the shooting death of Hung.
> 
> &#8220;What [made them shoot]? Why did someone die?&#8221; De Lima said, explaining the objective of the NBI investigation.
> 
> China Post reported that a team of Taiwanese investigators had arrived in Manila to join the Philippine investigation, but De Lima said she was not aware that Taiwan had asked for a joint investigation.
> 
> De Lima said she did not think the government would agree to a joint investigation.
> 
> &#8220;We are a sovereign country, we have our own processes, we have our own justice system, and we are already conducting our own investigation. We would not want to have anyone interfering in the NBI investigation,&#8221; she said.
> 
> The government has relieved 11 coast guards and two Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) employees involved in the killing.
> 
> Video of incident
> 
> A video footage of the incident has been submitted to the NBI.
> 
> Virgilio Mendez, NBI deputy director for regional services, confirmed Thursday that the bureau had the video, but declined to speak about its content, as this still needed verification.
> 
> He said the relieved coastguards and BFAR employees would appear at the NBI on Friday for questioning on the incident.&#8212;With reports from Christine O. Avendaño, Tarra Quismundo, Nancy C. Carvajal, Tina G. Santos, AP and China Post/ANN


They want joint investigation then *they have to course through proper channels*. They have to make an official request. SANCTION US if they want...they act as if they control the Philippine economy


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## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> Your acting irrational, it is not even new you've been poaching regularly at our surrounding sea.
> 
> Your President sounds absurd in his demands. He's just governing a renegade Island and not a legitimate sovereign nation.
> 
> Taiwan should act more maturely and not condemning the entire Philippine nation for just one unfortunate incident. Imagine Taiwan will punish our thousands of OFW and give our government ultimatum.



Taiwan should reverse the sanctions as soon as PH tenders COMPENSATION, not FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE, and the murderers for prosecution in a Taiwanese Court. 

Whether you like it or not, Taiwan will be there for a long time, and its maritime rights will be asserted throughout, so it's better that Ph recognizes reality sooner than later.


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## filipino_american

Martian2 said:


> At Filipino-American:
> 
> The Philippine claim that the little wooden Taiwanese boat tried to ram the metallic Filipino coast guard ship is a LIE. The wooden Taiwanese boat would have smashed to pieces if it hit the metallic 100-foot Philippine ship.
> 
> If the Taiwanese boat was trying to ram the Filipino ship, the Philippine coast guard defensive bullets would have traveled from bow-to-stern (longitudinal axis) on the Taiwanese boat. Instead, the pictures show 52 large-caliber bullets perforating the side (transverse axis) of the little Taiwanese boat.
> 
> The physical evidence is consistent with the story told by the Taiwanese skipper. The skipper said he never tried to ram the Filipino ship and was trying to escape a hail of Filipino bullets for one hour.



The PCG-BFAR spotted several radio beacon with two floating buoy markers some 39 nautical miles, east of Balintang Islands. They suspected that the buoys were long lines of Taiwanese fishing vessels. Soon after spotting the buoys, the PCG-BFAR was able to find the location of the Taiwanese fishing boats. 

They claimed that the Taiwanese fishermen had resisted to stop from their tracks while local sea authorities repeatedly fired warning shots in mid-air and blared their vessel's horn at the foreigners. 

&#8220;While on meeting situation, this unit then sounded warning through PA system and blow horn for the Taiwanese fishing vessel to stop for the conduct of fishing.. [The PCG] fired warning shots to alert the fishing vessel until the fishing vessel stopped and one of the crew of the fishing vesseel went outside,&#8221; the PCG said. 

But when the MCS-3001 vessel of PCG-BFAR was almost alongside of one of the fishing boat named Guang Ta Hsin-28, the PCG claimed that the engine of the Taiwanese vessel whirred to life, and the boat manuevered backward before speeding forward and it almost collided with the government ship's stern.

The patient Philippine authorities fired another round of warning shots but the Taiwanese vessel resisted to stop and engaged the PCG-BFAR in a high-speed sea chase. As a result, the commanding officer of the MCS-3001 ordered to open fire at Guang Ta Hsin-28 to disable its engine but accidentally killed Taiwanese fisherman named Hung Shih-cheng. 

&#8220;To stop the fishing vessel, this unit announced to fire for effects the engine side section of said Taiwanese fishing vessel to immobilize her [boat] and stop her [boat] engine,&#8221; the report said. 

While chasing after Guang Ta Hsin, the PCG-BFAR spotted at least two, new unidentified boats - one white and one gray &#8211; and this prompt them to disengage from their chase and leave as they were already outnumbered. 

Very very clear.......

1. The Taiwanese vessel REFUSED to STOP ILLEGAL FISHING in the Philippine EXCLUSIVE ZONE when they were found by the BFAR.

2. The Taiwanese vessel ignored "MULTIPLE" WARNING SHOTS from the BFAR

3. The Taiwanese vessel ignored warning through PA system from the BFAR

4. The Taiwanese vessel resisted to stop and engaged the BFAR in a high-speed sea chase

5. The Taiwanese vessel tried to RAM the BFAR boat.

The CHASING CAN JUSTIFY the SHOOTING alone , but the RAMMING was the BEST JUSTIFIED REASON FOR THE SHOOTING

I've seen many cases like this in AMERICA..... If you DO NOT STOP once the cops have notified you, YOU GET SHOT. What more if you TRY TO KILL A COP??? Would you expect them to do nothing???? This is NOT NEW anymore and TAIWAN IS JUST OVER REACTING

Just admit it TAIWAN, swallow your PRIDE. TELL THE WHOLE WORLD THAT YOUR SHIP WAS IN THE PHILIPPINE WATERS. DON'T YOU WONDER WHY AMERICA WONT CONDEMN THE PHILIPPINES? BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. NUFF SAID

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## longyi

AS Warner Wolf always says "Let's go to the video tape". Personal opinion doesn't worth much here.

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## filipino_american

KirovAirship said:


> Your government is diffident and doesn't even dare to show the tape but only making up different versions of stories in order to cover the truth. Your government slanders about how "powerful" the old unarmed fisherman was and how brave he was attempted to crush your ship with his lovely tiny fishing boat. Making up excuses and stories doesn't help you to remove the fact that there are huge amount of bullet holes in the ship and you people killed a unarmed old man by strafing him.
> Taiwan needs you more than the Phil needs Taiwan you say. Even the second largest economy doesn't dare to say that America need China more than China needs America. Not to mention that America currently own a lot of debt from China.
> You keep presenting a lot of prophecies. The newest tiger his the newest tiger that. Who cares if you are really growing after all those decades of stagnant or even backward developing. You keep mentioning "will be", how about NOW. The fact is that you are not even worthy to compare the Phil to Taiwan in the past nor AT THIS MOMENT. Who gave you the nothingness of proud to make you think that the Phil, a undeveloped country, is better than a developed 'country' Taiwan. Which industry in Phil is even worthy to compare with Taiwan's any kind industry. Even China can't say such a arrogant thing to the US nor Japan.
> Besides if the sanctions are really not damaging your benefit, you government would have never apologies. Also if the Phil government really think that they are on the right side, hey would have never made a single apology as well. The fisherman was surely do the wrong thing and crossed the line, but how about we killed you people who recently selling drugs in my city instead of catching them and putting them in jail. He was standing in the wrong place you say, how about our polices shoot you people in the head and say the same thing to you and give you a meaningless sorry.



The Philippines apologized for the HECK of peace. But look what Taiwan did in return. Taiwan has too much PRIDE!

RE: The sanction. I emphasized that TAIWAN felt like they were SO IMPORTANT to the Philippines. I bet the economists laughed at them.

Anyhow,

Even if the PHILIPPINES was RICH OR POOR either way still,

TAIWAN deserves SYMPATHY but NOT AN APOLOGY

as SIMPLE AS THAT.


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## filipino_american

longyi said:


> AS Warner Wolf always says "Let's go to the video tape". Personal opinion doesn't worth much here.



Sometimes personal opinions are good enough. 

If TAIWAN was not BIASED from the start, then they would have SAID that the "TAIWANESE vessel was CLEARLY in the PHILIPPINE WATER" long long time ago.

The shooting incident was their excuse to COVER their illegal PRESENCE.

Too much pride bro eh?


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## longyi

filipino_american said:


> Sometimes personal opinions are good enough.
> 
> If TAIWAN was not BIASED from the start, then they would have SAID that the "TAIWANESE vessel was CLEARLY in the PHILIPPINE WATER" long long time ago.
> 
> The shooting incident was their excuse to COVER their CONTINUES ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR.
> 
> *Too much pride bro eh?*





What if I say your opinion doesn't worth the paper it prints on. Condemn me to hell?

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## sdjd2013

"Because we committed an internationally wrongful act, we have the obligation under international law to apologize and provide compensation to the victim. This, though, is the full extent of our liability. Taiwan&#8217;s demand that in addition, we enter into a fishing agreement with it is bereft of legal merit."

Lessons learned from the Taiwan shooting incident

All of you missed the point. Trespass, if one in fact has occurred, does not justify killing. The quote from Attorney Roque, Jr.'s article is very clear on that, but he also misses the point that a fish treaty is necessary, whether warranted by law or not, to ensure the safety of fisherman everywhere. Without an agreement, Taiwan will have no choice but to continue to use military forces to protect the lives of its citizens. I don't understand why that is hard to digest for the Filipinos, majority of whom seem to support the shooting, apparently more out of hatred for the Chinese race than any protection of sovereignty rights.


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## filipino_american

shuttler said:


> the report above is absurb. the statements are manufactured
> 
> why the philippines government does not allow a joint investigation?



The truth is...

This was the first incident in the WHOLE HISTORY of the Philippines that they "FIRED" at a foreign vessel.

But the fact remains that the Philippines have arrested a lot of CHINESE and TAIWANESE vessels that entered their jurisdiction.

CLEARLY Taiwan and China dont follow INTERNATIONAL LAW.

They failed to WARN THEIR CITIZENS about the consequences given the fact above.

As I've said above, many ILLEGAL CHINESE and TAIWANESE have been already arrested for illegal FISHING.

If only CHINA/TAIWAN HAD ONLY educated their people about FOLLOWING INTERNATIONAL LAW then the incident wouldn't have happened.

They keep BLAMING the Philippines BUT they fail to realize that they are also to be blamed.


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## sdjd2013

when a fisherman has been identified as such, you do not use deadly force on high seas to capture him, but only necessary force. If you use a dangerous weapon intending to debilitate the boat's engine, then you had better be sure you are a good shot, otherwise, the shooter is responsible for any consequences resulting therefrom. You cannot shoot at a boat indiscriminately, knowing there are four passengers onboard, and later claim self-defense when in fact the boat was traveling away from the shooter, and not towards him.


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## 3310

I think there was really no intention of killing someone in this incident. 
The Philippines knows that it would lose more if they would kill foreigners unintentionally/intentionally.


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## sdjd2013

since the shooter in this case works for PH government, the government itself is vicariously liable for the deeds of its agents. It is, therefore, not unreasonable to demand an apology from the state of PH, which came much later after the deadline for the second round of sanctions. Furthermore, the apology was qualified by words such as "Financial Assistance," implying pan handling, and "unintended" which is conclusory without evidence, and even before the government had conducted and/or published its investigation. These niceties, when ill-performed, may be an incendiary to cause harm rather than good. So, Filipinos think about your actions and words. Stop the hateful acts and messages, b/c the world is watching.

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## longyi

Indeed the world is watching! First thing has to go is this sign:







It'll do more harm to Philippines than good.


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## 3310

too much hate and pride from ultra nationalists in this thread.

that sign is also shameful.

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## sdjd2013

longyi said:


> Indeed the world is watching! First thing has to go is this sign:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It'll do more harm to Philippines than good.



I absolutely agree. This is sign is a step in the wrong direction. It boils me to see stuff like this, pouring salt on the wound. But, hey, it is a true reflection of the author's character.

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## filipino_american

sonicbomb said:


> Taiwan didn't lie.
> 
> According to UNCLOS which gives some rules on the law of the sea ( signed by both Taiwan and the Philippines), territorial waters where the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource would cover only 12 nautical miles. I haven't calculated the distance from the Balintang Islands myself, but if effectively it is 43 NM, then the location of the incident is out of the territorial water, but inside
> the Philippines exclusive economic zone (which is within 200 nm), where the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. Unfortunately it seems it is also in Taiwan's exclusive economic zone because the two countries are so close, and this created the conflict.



Now you are talking about UNCLOS

Did you know that there is a provision in UNCLOS that is called Archipelagic DOCRINE?

What is ARCHIPELAGIC DOCTRINE?



(a)	"archipelagic State" means a State constituted wholly by one or more archipelagos and may include other islands;

(b)	"archipelago" means a group of islands, including parts of islands, interconnecting waters and other natural features which are so closely interrelated that such islands, waters and other natural features form an intrinsic geographical, economic and political entity, or which historically have been regarded as such.

The length of such baselines shall not exceed 100 nautical miles, except that up to 3 per cent of the total number of baselines enclosing any archipelago may exceed that length, up to a maximum length of 125 nautical miles.

Under UNCLOS, only 5 ARCHIPELAGIC states are recognized which are the Philippines, Indonesia, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, and the Bahamas.

The sovereignty of an archipelagic State extends to the waters enclosed by the archipelagic baselines drawn in accordance with article 47, described as archipelagic waters, regardless of their depth or distance from the coast.

"The waters around, between and connecting the islands of the archipelago, regardless of their dimensions, form part of the internal waters of the Philippines."

The WATERS in between YAMI Island (Philippines INTERNATIONALLY recognized NORTHERNMOST TIP), BATANES Islands, Babuyan Islands, and the Island of LUZON including the BALINTANG CHANNEL are PART OF THE PHILIPPINE INTERNAL WATERS.

The Philippines has also 12NM TERRITORIAL SEA in addition to its archipelagic waters (Internal Waters between the islands)

Then another 200 EEZ.


RE: Overlapping EEZ

When an overlap occurs, it is up to the states to delineate the actual maritime boundary. Generally, any point within an overlapping area defaults to the nearest state.

Very very clear......

The incident happened within the Philippine Jurisdiction

And yet, the VIOLATOR (TAIWAN) asked for an APOLOGY.

SHAKE MY HEAD


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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> when a fisherman has been identified as such, you do not use deadly force on high seas to capture him, but only necessary force. If you use a dangerous weapon intending to debilitate the boat's engine, then you had better be sure you are a good shot, otherwise, the shooter is responsible for any consequences resulting therefrom. You cannot shoot at a boat indiscriminately, knowing there are four passengers onboard, and later claim self-defense when in fact the boat was traveling away from the shooter, and not towards him.



As I've mentioned on my PREVIOUS POST,

the Philippines has arrested MANY MANY TAIWANESE and CHINESE illegal FISHERS without FIRING at them.

The Philippines can argue to the world that they PRACTICE Maximum Restraints based on the many accounts of PEACEFUL arrests of TAIWANESE and CHINESE proachers.

But this time, the VIOLATORS were VIOLENT, they tried to RAM the Philippine POLICE, then self-defense can be invoked.

Now what?

Still TAIWAN won't PLEAD that the VESSEL was in the Philippine waters.

Too much pride! SMH!



longyi said:


> What if I say your opinion doesn't worth the paper it prints on. Condemn me to hell?



As long as my opinions hit your nerves (because they are true) then I'm happy.


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## p3avi8tor69

sdjd2013 said:


> I absolutely agree. This is sign is a step in the wrong direction. It boils me to see stuff like this, pouring salt on the wound. But, hey, it is a true reflection of the author's character.



The kid who posted that ludicrous sign is a bot who never hesitates to lace his remarks with racial insults. His post are incomprehensible 95% of the time. 

Such inflammatory rubbish only serves to isolate the Philippines even more. I am sure most Pinoys are good people but unfortunately here in PDF they are represented by morons who tarnish their country's reputation.


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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> As I've mentioned on my PREVIOUS POST,
> 
> the Philippines has arrested MANY MANY TAIWANESE and CHINESE illegal FISHERS without FIRING at them.
> 
> The Philippines can argue to the world that they PRACTICE Maximum Restraints based on the many accounts of PEACEFUL arrests of TAIWANESE and CHINESE proachers.
> 
> But this time, the VIOLATORS were VIOLENT, they tried to RAM the Philippine POLICE, then self-defense can be invoked.
> 
> Now what?
> 
> Still TAIWAN won't PLEAD that the VESSEL was in the Philippine waters.
> 
> Too much pride! SMH!
> 
> 
> 
> As long as my opinions hit your nerves (because they are true) then I'm happy.



There is no evidence of ramming. According to the "three-page" report from the coast guards onboard, they were chasing down the fishing boat, and shot at it b/c the boat had "tried to ram" the coast guard before the chase. First of all, "tried to ram" is a very subjective statement, and must be judged objectively by the video tape. Secondly, the shooting sounds more like retaliation than self-defense.



filipino_american said:


> As I've mentioned on my PREVIOUS POST,
> 
> the Philippines has arrested MANY MANY TAIWANESE and CHINESE illegal FISHERS without FIRING at them.
> 
> The Philippines can argue to the world that they PRACTICE Maximum Restraints based on the many accounts of PEACEFUL arrests of TAIWANESE and CHINESE proachers.
> 
> But this time, the VIOLATORS were VIOLENT, they tried to RAM the Philippine POLICE, then self-defense can be invoked.
> 
> Now what?
> 
> Still TAIWAN won't PLEAD that the VESSEL was in the Philippine waters.
> 
> Too much pride! SMH!
> 
> 
> 
> As long as my opinions hit your nerves (because they are true) then I'm happy.



I am glad the Philippines has had a long track record of making arrests without a shooting incident before, but that does not justify, or excuse killing thereafter. Can you understand that?



sdjd2013 said:


> There is no evidence of ramming. According to the "three-page" report from the coast guards onboard, they were chasing down the fishing boat, and shot at it b/c the boat had "tried to ram" the coast guard before the chase. First of all, "tried to ram" is a very subjective statement, and must be judged objectively by the video tape. Secondly, the shooting sounds more like retaliation than self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad the Philippines has had a long track record of making arrests without a shooting incident before, but that does not justify, or excuse killing thereafter. Can you understand that?



Anyways, that is moot, b/c Taiwanese will fish where they like, as long as they are not within the economic zones of PH, whether disputed or not, and whether you guys like it or not.

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## filipino_american

p3avi8tor69 said:


> The kid who posted that ludicrous sign is a bot who never hesitates to lace his remarks with racial insults. His post are incomprehensible 95% of the time.
> 
> Such inflammatory rubbish only serves to isolate the Philippines even more. I am sure most Pinoys are good people but unfortunately here in PDF they are represented by morons who tarnish their country's reputation.



So what is the difference of his post from your posts? Or the people in Taiwan yelling at and beating Filipinos?

China and Taiwan keep BLAMING the Philippines BUT they fail to realize that they are also to be blamed.

again,

If only CHINA/TAIWAN HAD ONLY educated their people about FOLLOWING INTERNATIONAL LAW then the incident wouldn't have happened.

I am not saying the poster is right or wrong, but

Make Sure Your Hands Are Clean Before You Start Pointing Fingers.


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## sdjd2013

I have heard isolated incidents of harassment and prevalent racial discrimination in Taiwan against Filipinos as a result of the shooting incident, but I can assure you that they are isolated incidents, b/c unlike China Taiwan actually respect human rights.


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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> There is no evidence of ramming. According to the "three-page" report from the coast guards onboard, they were chasing down the fishing boat, and shot at it b/c the boat had "tried to ram" the coast guard before the chase. First of all, "tried to ram" is a very subjective statement, and must be judged objectively by the video tape. Secondly, the shooting sounds more like retaliation than self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad the Philippines has had a long track record of making arrests without a shooting incident before, but that does not justify, or excuse killing thereafter. Can you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, that is moot, b/c Taiwanese will fish where they like, as long as they are not within the economic zones of PH, whether disputed or not, and whether you guys like it or not.



The Philippines tried to ARREST the Taiwanese vessel peacefully but the vessel tried to evade INTERNATIONAL LAW. The vessel even tried to ram the Philippine vessel. Then SELF DEFENSE was JUSTIFIABLE. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? 

and also,

the TAIWANESE vessel was in the Philippine Waters. But TAIWAN WONT ADMIT. Can you understand that?


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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> The Philippines tried to ARREST the Taiwanese vessel peacefully but the vessel tried to evade INTERNATIONAL LAW. The vessel even tried to ram the Philippine vessel. Then SELF DEFENSE was JUSTIFIABLE. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?
> 
> and also,
> 
> the TAIWANESE vessel was in the Philippine Waters. But TAIWAN WONT ADMIT. Can you understand that?



I am sorry, your statements are not supported by any evidence, and therefore your conclusions are obviously self-serving. So, I cannot agree with you.



sdjd2013 said:


> I am sorry, your statements are not supported by any evidence, and therefore your conclusions are obviously self-serving. So, I cannot agree with you.



As far as trespassing, I believe Taiwan has rights over 200 nm south of its southern most tip, which includes part of the territory claimed by PH, so I don't understand why ppl like you unilaterally insist on trespassing?



sdjd2013 said:


> "Because we committed an internationally wrongful act, we have the obligation under international law to apologize and provide compensation to the victim. This, though, is the full extent of our liability. Taiwans demand that in addition, we enter into a fishing agreement with it is bereft of legal merit."
> 
> Lessons learned from the Taiwan shooting incident
> 
> All of you missed the point. Trespass, if one in fact has occurred, does not justify killing. The quote from Attorney Roque, Jr.'s article is very clear on that, but he also misses the point that a fish treaty is necessary, whether warranted by law or not, to ensure the safety of fisherman everywhere. Without an agreement, Taiwan will have no choice but to continue to use military forces to protect the lives of its citizens. I don't understand why that is hard to digest for the Filipinos, majority of whom seem to support the shooting, apparently more out of hatred for the Chinese race than any protection of sovereignty rights.



I AM REPOSTING THE ABOVE


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> I am sorry, your statements are not supported by any evidence, and therefore your conclusions are obviously self-serving. So, I cannot agree with you.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as trespassing, I believe Taiwan has rights over 200 nm south of its southern most tip, which includes part of the territory claimed by PH, so I don't understand why ppl like you unilaterally insist on trespassing?
> 
> 
> 
> I AM REPOSTING THE ABOVE



Oh, also based on MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY occasions of ARREST of illegal TAIWANESE proachers

it is very safe to say that:



1. Taiwanese people DO NOT FOLLOW INTERNATIONAL LAW

2. Taiwanese Government DO NOT EDUCATE her people where to FISH LEGALLY

3. Taiwanese people has a LONG HISTORY of violating and NOT respecting other NATION'S SOVEREIGNTY

AND YET THEY BLAME THE PHILIPPINES FOR EVERYTHING


ENOUGH SAID


----------



## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Oh, also based on MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY occasions of ARREST of illegal TAIWANESE proachers
> 
> it is very safe to say that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Taiwanese people DO NOT FOLLOW INTERNATIONAL LAW
> 
> 2. Taiwanese Government DO NOT EDUCATE her people where to FISH LEGALLY
> 
> 3. Taiwanese people has LONG HISTORY of violating and NOT respecting other NATIONS SOVEREIGNTY
> 
> ENOUGH SAID



Again, you are wrong. Your statements are self-serving. true Taiwanese fisherman have had a history of being arrested by Japan and PH, but those arrests were all made in disputed waters. Taiwan and Japan have reached a fishing agreement where Taiwanese have gained 70,000 sq miles of fishing areas. In the past, Taiwanese have been buying worthless fishing permits from PH only to be revoked at will in order to extort bond money from these poor fisherman.

again, this is all moot, now that Taiwanese will not be fishing in disputed territories, b/c their navy has made sure all disputed areas are now undisputed, unless and until PH come to the table and proposes a fishing agreement. So, please get off your high horse.


----------



## jhungary

sdjd2013 said:


> do you know how far is 180 nautical miles from southern tip of Taiwan? it's about 160 miles



180 nmi is about 207 miles........not 160...

Also, you may want to tone down the choice of your word(especially the F Bomb), unless you want to take a break from this forum.

As for all you guys, I admire the fact that both side have nothing to do but bicker like a bunch of 12 years old.

If I were to enjoy High School bitchslap fight (Well, this is the exact use of the word), I will sneak in a high school.
It just show you when nationalist movement took over. It can really trash stuff. I cannot believe it gone on for 14 pages without any cool headed discussion

can any one here just let the authority handle this kind of situation? The world have no intention on knowing what individual Taiwanese or Chinese or Filipino want to do about this situation, can you all just please keep it to yourselves?

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## sdjd2013

I can't believe the PH govt has turned back the investigation team from Taiwan. PH is playing a dangerous game.

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## HongWu

sdjd2013 said:


> I have heard isolated incidents of harassment and prevalent racial discrimination in Taiwan against Filipinos as a result of the shooting incident, but I can assure you that they are isolated incidents, b/c unlike China Taiwan actually respect human rights.


 Taiwan and Philippines do not qualify for human rights. Go ahead and with your little girl fight. When the time comes PLA will crush Republic of Taiwan and take back our formosa island. Manila will be bombed and Philippines split into many statelets.


----------



## sdjd2013

jhungary said:


> 180 nmi is about 207 miles........not 160...
> 
> Also, you may want to tone down the choice of your word(especially the F Bomb), unless you want to take a break from this forum.
> 
> As for all you guys, I admire the fact that both side have nothing to do but bicker like a bunch of 12 years old.
> 
> If I were to enjoy High School bitchslap fight (Well, this is the exact use of the word), I will sneak in a high school.
> It just show you when nationalist movement took over. It can really trash stuff. I cannot believe it gone on for 14 pages without any cool headed discussion
> 
> can any one here just let the authority handle this kind of situation? The world have no intention on knowing what individual Taiwanese or Chinese or Filipino want to do about this situation, can you all just please keep it to yourselves?



am I in a kindergarten site? I really don't understand people who assert themselves as the all mighty in public forums. Does that make you feel good? do really think I give a **** about what you think about profanity, or being on this site?



HongWu said:


> Taiwan and Philippines do not qualify for human rights. Go ahead and with your little girl fight. When the time comes PLA will crush Republic of Taiwan and take back our formosa island. Manila will be bombed and Philippines split into many statelets.



and I am sure you will be found in the bottom of the rubbles


----------



## jhungary

sdjd2013 said:


> am I in a kindergarten site? I really don't understand people who assert themselves as the all mighty in public forums. Does that make you feel good? do really think I give a **** about what you think about profanity, or being on this site?
> 
> and I am sure you will be found in the bottom of the rubbles



Well, then I got nothing more to say, rules set here for everyone pleasure, it's not for someone who think they are high and mighty, if you say this, then swearing in this forum does it make you high and all mighty??

This is not a kindergarten forum but people in this thread seems acted more like one

Be ready to take a break and get banned


----------



## faithfulguy

filipino_american said:


> Oh, also based on MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY occasions of ARREST of illegal TAIWANESE proachers
> 
> it is very safe to say that:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Taiwanese people DO NOT FOLLOW INTERNATIONAL LAW
> 
> 2. Taiwanese Government DO NOT EDUCATE her people where to FISH LEGALLY
> 
> 3. Taiwanese people has a LONG HISTORY of violating and NOT respecting other NATION'S SOVEREIGNTY
> 
> AND YET THEY BLAME THE PHILIPPINES FOR EVERYTHING
> 
> 
> ENOUGH SAID



Just curious, how many Filipino fisherman was murdered in this incident?


----------



## sdjd2013

Meanwhile, the leadership of the US House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific called on the Philippines to apologize for the killing by its Coast Guard of the fisherman, punish the perpetrators and compensate the victim&#8217;s family.

&#8220;A government vessel&#8217;s shooting of an unarmed fishing boat is an act of violence and is in violation of international law,&#8221; chairman Steve Chabot and ranking member Eni Faleomaveaga said in a joint statement on Wednesday.

&#8220;Therefore, we call upon the Philippines to promptly and sincerely respond to the requests of the Taiwan government to apologize, punish the perpetrators, and provide proper compensation to the victim&#8217;s family based on humanitarian grounds.&#8221; &#8211; AP, Aurea Calica, Rudy Santos, Edu Punay, Jose Rodel Clapano, Marvin Sy, Mayen Jaymalin, Jaime Laude, Jose Katigbak (STAR Washington bureau)



jhungary said:


> Well, then I got nothing more to say, rules set here for everyone pleasure, it's not for someone who think they are high and mighty, if you say this, then swearing in this forum does it make you high and all mighty??
> 
> This is not a kindergarten forum but people in this thread seems acted more like one
> 
> Be ready to take a break and get banned



if you want to actually take the time to do that, go for it, Mr. Pontiff. The rule applies to everyone but you?

I hope the last article gives some perspective to all the Filipinos defending the murder on the PCG boat.

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## jhungary

sdjd2013 said:


> Meanwhile, the leadership of the US House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific called on the Philippines to apologize for the killing by its Coast Guard of the fisherman, punish the perpetrators and compensate the victim&#8217;s family.
> 
> &#8220;A government vessel&#8217;s shooting of an unarmed fishing boat is an act of violence and is in violation of international law,&#8221; chairman Steve Chabot and ranking member Eni Faleomaveaga said in a joint statement on Wednesday.
> 
> &#8220;Therefore, we call upon the Philippines to promptly and sincerely respond to the requests of the Taiwan government to apologize, punish the perpetrators, and provide proper compensation to the victim&#8217;s family based on humanitarian grounds.&#8221; &#8211; AP, Aurea Calica, Rudy Santos, Edu Punay, Jose Rodel Clapano, Marvin Sy, Mayen Jaymalin, Jaime Laude, Jose Katigbak (STAR Washington bureau)
> 
> 
> 
> if you want to actually take the time to do that, go for it, Mr. Pontiff. The rule applies to everyone but you?
> 
> I hope the last article gives some perspective to all the Filipinos defending the murder on the PCG boat.



lol........

I won't need to do it myself, but mods are already doing something as we see the iajj fella got banned. I am pretty sure your post would had been or already did reported.

Rules apply to everyone, but I am not the one who keep using profanity and then tell me to take a hike. I strongly suggested that you read the rules here before coming to post stuff online.


----------



## longyi

sdjd2013 said:


> Meanwhile, the leadership of the US House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific called on the Philippines to apologize for the killing by its Coast Guard of the fisherman, punish the perpetrators and compensate the victims family.
> 
> A government vessels shooting of an unarmed fishing boat is an act of violence and is in violation of international law, chairman Steve Chabot and ranking member Eni Faleomaveaga said in a joint statement on Wednesday.
> 
> Therefore, we call upon the Philippines to promptly and sincerely respond to the requests of the Taiwan government to apologize, punish the perpetrators, and provide proper compensation to the victims family based on humanitarian grounds.  AP, Aurea Calica, Rudy Santos, Edu Punay, Jose Rodel Clapano, Marvin Sy, Mayen Jaymalin, Jaime Laude, Jose Katigbak (STAR Washington bureau)
> 
> 
> 
> if you want to actually take the time to do that, go for it, Mr. Pontiff. The rule applies to everyone but you?
> 
> I hope the last article gives some perspective to all the Filipinos defending the murder on the PCG boat.





He always cries to the mods and quick to use the report button. He even reported me a couple times for calling him a moron.

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## sdjd2013

longyi said:


> He always cries to the mods and quick to use the report button. He even reported me a couple times for calling him a moron.



lol what a moron

I'd see, you are the self-designated profanity police... tell me something, do you think the rules of this PUBLIC forum trumps the supreme law of the land? the U.S. constitution? You may say the host is not in the U.S., but the site is reachable by the U.S., how about I shut down the whole site for everyone on here, thanks to you. moron.

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## Pinoy

sonicbomb said:


> Taiwan didn't lie.
> 
> According to UNCLOS which gives some rules on the law of the sea ( signed by both Taiwan and the Philippines), territorial waters where the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource would cover only 12 nautical miles. I haven't calculated the distance from the Balintang Islands myself, but if effectively it is 43 NM, then the location of the incident is out of the territorial water, but inside
> the Philippines exclusive economic zone (which is within 200 nm), where the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. Unfortunately it seems it is also in Taiwan's exclusive economic zone because the two countries are so close, and this created the conflict.


LMAO Taiwan cannot invoke UNCLOS because they are not a signatory to it. They are not even a member of UN.


----------



## shuttler

3310 said:


> you and your prejudice on the case. why dismiss the other side's statement that easily? You even haven't seen the video of the incident.(i doubt that it will be made public. i think the taiwanese investigators were allowed to see the video. notice the absence of the clamor for the supposed video evidence ) .
> 
> sorry, our justice system is way different from PRC's. We try individuals here to know if he is guilty or not.



I am saying from a legal perspective, regardless of the place
why am I not considering philippines statement? Yes I have considered. The filippino side gives very bad and contradictory statements 
the vid will not be publicised. That is what I think. There may be too many alterations to it so it is not reflecting the real situation. 
Now the Taiwanese investigators are now in your country, let's see what they can find!


----------



## Pinoy

Bob Ong said:


> Well said
> 
> The Philippine economy will continue to improve without Taiwan. Nor we need the Chinese poachers and thieves.
> 
> Anyway let me also share this interesting article:
> 
> Taiwan-Philippine economic exchanges may be deferred: minister - Taiwan News Online
> *
> Taiwan-Philippine economic exchanges may be deferred: minister*
> Central News Agency
> 
> Taipei, May 15 (CNA) Taiwan is considering suspending economic exchanges with the Philippines because of its handling of an attack by one of its government vessels on a Taiwanese fishing boat, Economics Minister Chang Chia-juch said Wednesday. If the Philippines does not provide satisfactory responses to Taiwan's demands related to the incident by 6 p.m. Wednesday, Taiwan will impose further sanctions against the Philippines, Chang said at a legislative hearing. Invitations of Philippine officials, subsidies for Philippine buyers to visit Taiwan, and investment solicitation and trade promotion activities could all be suspended or postponed until August at the earliest, the ministry said in a prepared document. The ministry has also stopped encouraging local businesses to invest in the Philippines, Chang said.
> 
> More far-reaching economic sanctions, however, could hurt Taiwan more than the Philippines. Bilateral trade between the two countries totaled US$10.97 billion in 2012, with Taiwan showing a US$6.77 billion trade surplus, according to government statistics. The Taipei-based Taiwan Institute of Economic Research cautioned recently that potential economic sanctions against the Philippines would likely have only a limited impact on the Philippine economy. Taiwan was the Philippines' 10th largest investor in 2012, injecting US$58.54 million into the Philippine economy last year, but that only accounted for 0.85 percent of foreign investment in the country. In addition, around 10 million Filipinos work overseas, but only 87,000 of them work in Taiwan, also limiting Taiwan's leverage, said Gordon Sun, director of the institute's macroeconomic forecasting center. "Imposing economic sanctions on the Philippines might not necessarily be in Taiwan's favor, and the Philippine economy might not be hurt as much as we expect," he told CNA on May 13. (By James Lee)


aside from that their action of freeze hiring of OFWs will backfire to them. Their economy actually has slowed down and in one of its lowest state. The only bright prospect is exports of electronics which relies heavily on OFW skilled labor force. Without the OFWs, their economy will be at a standstill. Beyond that their main market is the surging South East Asian economies including the Philippines. So if Taiwan thinks that their action will only affect the Philippines and not them, they are dead wrong. LMAO!


----------



## shuttler

3310 said:


> who said the government didn't allow a joint investigation? the TW authorities were here. Is that what you call truth?



did your governmemt first refuse then accept the Taiwanese Team under pressure?



3310 said:


> what's the truth? we don't even know it yet. both governments are on the case. The investigations hasn't yet concluded.
> 
> it would help if you would listen to others, not just what you want the "truth" should be.
> 
> the threat sanctions was new, it did not force us to do the investigation.



if it is not because of sanctions I dont think there is any response from your government
The third sanction is forthcoming. Fasten your seat belts


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> Again, you are wrong. Your statements are self-serving. true Taiwanese fisherman have had a history of being arrested by Japan and PH, but those arrests were all made in disputed waters. Taiwan and Japan have reached a fishing agreement where Taiwanese have gained 70,000 sq miles of fishing areas. In the past, Taiwanese have been buying worthless fishing permits from PH only to be revoked at will in order to extort bond money from these poor fisherman.
> 
> again, this is all moot, now that Taiwanese will not be fishing in disputed territories, b/c their navy has made sure all disputed areas are now undisputed, unless and until PH come to the table and proposes a fishing agreement. So, please get off your high horse.



Hahahaha

lol at those arrests were all made in "disputed" waters.

FYI the arrests were MADE in both DISPUTED and UNDISPUTED territories.

Also, there is no DISPUTE between the borders of Taiwan and the Philippines. 

Under 1 CHINA policy, CHINA signed UNCLOS for TAIWAN.

Under UNCLOS, the Philippines is CLASSIFIED as an ARCHIPELAGIC state

Under the ARCHIPELAGIC doctrine, THE WATERS between the YAMI ISLAND, BATANES ISLANDS, BABUYAN ISLANDS, and LUZON are all part of the Philippine ARCHIPELAGIC WATERS. And on top of that, the Philippines has 12NM additional TERRITORIAL WATERS.

Archipelagic WATERS like TERRITORIAL WATERS are exclusively under the PHILIPPINE SOVEREIGNTY.

Once you pass the YAMI ISLAND, technically, you will enter the Philippine Exclusive ARCHIPELAGIC WATERS 

Also, the Philippines has already filed a Claim AGAINST CHINA in the International Court.

Your 9 dash claim will be INVALIDATED SOON

UN will finally make the DISPUTED waters UNDISPUTED

Don't you wonder why CHINA ran away from the UN COURT? lmao

wahahahaha!


----------



## 3310

shuttler said:


> There may be too many alterations to it so it is not reflecting the real situation.


How can you dismiss it if you haven't seen it yet. You're too quick to choose what truth you want to believe.

I listen to both sides filtering out the insensitivities and hate that the other forum posters from PRC, ROC , and PH posts.



shuttler said:


> did your governmemt first refuse then accept the Taiwanese Team under pressure?


It's just another case of the left hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.


----------



## shuttler

3310 said:


> How can you dismiss it if you haven't seen it yet. You're too quick to choose what truth you want to believe.
> 
> I listen to both sides filtering out the insensitivities and hate that the other forum posters from PRC, ROC , and PH posts.



1. "may be"
2. the vid is unduly prolonged for showing to the public and if the filippinos have no qualm why not have it aired on TVs
3. all other conflicts like the japanese vs Chinese collision; the japanese water gun-shot at the Taiwanese fishing vessels were shown in public within a day.


----------



## 3310

shuttler said:


> There may be too many alterations to it so it is not reflecting the real situation.



And you actually think they are going to that alterations? Have you seen our local movies' special effects?


----------



## jhungary

longyi said:


> He always cries to the mods and quick to use the report button. He even reported me a couple times for calling him a moron.





sdjd2013 said:


> lol what a moron
> 
> I'd see, you are the self-designated profanity police... tell me something, do you think the rules of this PUBLIC forum trumps the supreme law of the land? the U.S. constitution? You may say the host is not in the U.S., but the site is reachable by the U.S., how about I shut down the whole site for everyone on here, thanks to you. moron.



If I have reported any of you, I will say "Post" reported. If you got warned, and I did not say I reported you, then chances are that's someone else job, unless you can tell me with evidence that you know I report you and I hide behind a mod. You can list it here.

If you want to go "F" someone, you can go to your local pub or whatever you like or get in a fight, I really don't care. But if you want to post stuff in an international forum, you need to bound by the rules of said forum. You have to be Über egoistic or plainly stupid to think you are above the law.

If you don't like this, you can go somewhere else. 

All in all, you have your right to swear in this forum, but the Moderator have the right to ban you, that's also in our amendment. 

By the way, I have to disclosed this, I have contacted Moderator to come here and clean this, so really, prepare to take a vacation

But one can see how intelligent a single person is, if he can say 180 nautical mile equal to 160 miles. So I guess we did not lose much if you were indeed banned


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## 3310

shuttler said:


> 1. "may be"
> 2. the vid is unduly prolonged for showing to the public and if the filippinos have no qualm why not have it aired on TVs
> 3. all other conflicts like the japanese vs Chinese collision; the japanese water gun-shot at the Taiwanese fishing vessels were shown in public within a day.



i remember that vid about the chinese fishing vessel ramming a Japanese CG ship. It was not released intentionally.


----------



## shuttler

3310 said:


> And you actually think they are going to that alterations? Have you seen our local movies' special effects?



yes it is likely. no I havent



3310 said:


> i remember that vid about the chinese fishing vessel ramming a Japanese CG ship. It was not released intentionally.



if it was not shown internationally how did you see it?


----------



## 3310

the contents of the video might go against PH, TW or both countries.



shuttler said:


> yes it is likely. no I havent
> 
> 
> 
> if it was not shown internationally how did you see it?



It was actually leaked.

or "leaked".


----------



## shuttler

3310 said:


> the contents of the video might go against PH, TW or both countries.
> It was actually leaked.



it is more likely against the former
where was it leaked?


----------



## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Hahahaha
> 
> lol at those arrests were all made in "disputed" waters.
> 
> FYI the arrests were MADE in both DISPUTED and UNDISPUTED territories.
> 
> Also, there is no DISPUTE between the borders of Taiwan and the Philippines.
> 
> Under 1 CHINA policy, CHINA signed UNCLOS for TAIWAN.
> 
> Under UNCLOS, the Philippines is CLASSIFIED as an ARCHIPELAGIC state
> 
> Under the ARCHIPELAGIC doctrine, THE WATERS between the YAMI ISLAND, BATANES ISLANDS, BABUYAN ISLANDS, and LUZON are all part of the Philippine ARCHIPELAGIC WATERS. And on top of that, the Philippines has 12NM additional TERRITORIAL WATERS.
> 
> Archipelagic WATERS like TERRITORIAL WATERS are exclusively under the PHILIPPINE SOVEREIGNTY.
> 
> Once you pass the YAMI ISLAND, technically, you will enter the Philippine Exclusive ARCHIPELAGIC WATERS
> 
> Also, the Philippines has already filed a Claim AGAINST CHINA in the International Court.
> 
> Your 9 dash claim will be INVALIDATED SOON
> 
> UN will finally make the DISPUTED waters UNDISPUTED
> 
> Don't you wonder why CHINA ran away from the UN COURT? lmao
> 
> wahahahaha!



oh good, when Taiwan sinks all of your navy ships, you can complain to China


----------



## filipino_american

Tell your government that they can't just go WITHOUT submitting A FORMAL REQUEST.

The PH is demanding a FORMAL REQUEST.

TW thinks they can just get whatever they want RIGHT away like a CHILD.

But I am sorry, TAIWAN is NOT A PRIORITY.

There are so many investors lining up. 

Tell TAIWAN, to fall in line


----------



## 3310

shuttler said:


> yes it is likely. no I havent
> 
> 
> 
> if it was not shown internationally how did you see it?



If you haven't seen our movie industry, don't bother, you'll just puke watching the horrible special effects. How can they make believable alterations if they can't even make good special effects.



shuttler said:


> it is more likely against the former
> where was it leaked?



google leak coast guard japan video

question. can you see youtube from there?


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> oh good, when Taiwan sinks all of your navy ships, you can complain to China



Hahahaha, u are funny!

Taiwan CAN'T even arrest a SINGLE FILIPINO in the SEA lol

Taiwan never ARRESTED any "ILLEGAL" Filipino because they know themselves that they are NOT ILLEGAL


----------



## shuttler

3310 said:


> If you haven't seen our movie industry, don't bother, you'll just puke watching the horrible special effects. How can they make believable alterations if they can't even make good special effects.



I thought cameron will give you a hand!



> google leak coast guard japan video



ok

On the "joint" investigation thing, TV says the Taiwanese were receiveing cold shoulders from the Philippines probably as a retaliation to the same cold treatment when the Philippines Envoy arrived in TW a couple of days ago

Diplomatic tension is escalating!


----------



## 3310

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZE3DVKvi8U


the ramming vid here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psUvpbhl5YM


----------



## filipino_american

HongWu said:


> Taiwan and Philippines do not qualify for human rights. Go ahead and with your little girl fight. When the time comes PLA will crush Republic of Taiwan and take back our formosa island. Manila will be bombed and Philippines split into many statelets.



Hahaha the truth is, COMMUNIST CHINA HAS been successfully encircled by the ALLIES.

From India, S.korea, Japan to Australia.

Do you think CHINA can survive if all its ENEMIES attack all at once? lol

China cannot AFFORD ANY WAR as its ECONOMY will COLLAPSE right away lol



faithfulguy said:


> Just curious, how many Filipino fisherman was murdered in this incident?



Is this a question or what?

#CommonSensePlease


----------



## 3310

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> Maybe we can not compare with the US now, now before they come to fight with us, we can Raape the Pinoys maids we hire and shot the US dogs in Asia.



This is the kind of post we want reported.


----------



## filipino_american

I just can't wait for the day when

the UN COURT makes the DISPUTED areas UNDISPUTED.

Once the UN abolishes China and Taiwan's 9 dash claim,

US and NATO will have the LEGALITY to intervene in the area.

GOOD move for the Philippines on filing the CLAIM before the UN.

As CHINA and Taiwan will LOSE face in the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY lol!


----------



## 3310

i don't think Cuba is evil. The US's lifting of sanctions against them is long overdue. Politics has something to do with the non normalization of relations.


----------



## shuttler

^^
@3310

that vid @ post 325 was shown on UT and that was international enough

why your govt is not doing the same if you claim what you were doing is legal within your laws?


----------



## 3310

maybe out of respect? i don't know.

let's just hope someone leaks that video.


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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Hahahaha, u are funny!
> 
> Taiwan CAN'T even arrest a SINGLE FILIPINO in the SEA lol
> 
> Taiwan never ARRESTED any "ILLEGAL" Filipino because they know themselves that they are NOT ILLEGAL



I think you speak too soon. we will see.. By now, I am pretty sure most Filipinos are unremorseful and without compunction. Pretty useless to talk sense into them. You guys defy the world community, especially your biggest ally, the U.S., in giving in to Taiwan's demands, instead play cat and mouse. Just remember, what's good for the goose is good for the gander

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## 3310

please don't feed the trolls.

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## auspice

Ma is crazy and barbaric.







We should not be afraid of the Taiwanese retaliations and sanctions since looking forward in the future. 

They need us more than we need them.

I would suggest to BAN all the Chinese and Taiwanese nationals in the Philippines. 

Less drug lords and smugglers. Less criminality. China and Taiwan are country of criminals, poachers and fvcking thieves.

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## filipino_american

auspice said:


> Ma is crazy and barbaric.
> 
> 
> 
> We should not be afraid of the Taiwanese retaliations and sanctions since looking forward in the future.
> 
> They need us more than we need them.
> 
> I would suggest to BAN all the Chinese and Taiwanese nationals in the Philippines.
> 
> Less drug lords and smugglers. Less criminality. China and Taiwan are country of poachers and thieves.



lol!

We dont need TAIWAN.

See, CHINA imposed sanctions against the Philippines last year, but see what happened, the Philippine ECONOMY grew more than expected. wahahahaha!

China's sanction DID NOT AFFECT the Philippines wahahaha

they banned PH bananas, but the END RESULT was the Philippines HAD THE HIGHEST EXPORT GROWTH IN ASIA LAST YEAR.
WHAT A BIG SLAP TO THEIR FACE!

WE DONT ONLY TRADE WITH CHINA AND TAIWAN. THERE ARE 190 PLUS SOMETHING COUNTRIES IN THE WHOLE WORLD TO TRADE WITH LMAO!

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## Snomannen

auspice said:


> Ma is crazy and barbaric.
> 
> We should not be afraid of the Taiwanese retaliations and sanctions since looking forward in the future.
> 
> They need us more than we need them.
> 
> I would suggest to BAN all the Chinese and Taiwanese nationals in the Philippines.
> 
> Less drug lords and smugglers. Less criminality. China and Taiwan are country of criminals, poachers and fvcking thieves.



Yeah why don't you call all you workers and maids in Greater China to go back to your country and cancel all the investment projects from China, since they need you more than you need them.


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## filipino_american

China's EEZ: 





Philippine EEZ, Territorial Waters and ARCHIPELAGIC WATERS:






It is very CLEAR that the TAIWANESE intruder was within the Philippine Waters!


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## sdjd2013

wow, I had no idea how reclusive the Filipinos are. No wonder their country is in shambles. The U.S. probably will use Taiwan to scare you guys into a 100year lease for a military base so they can enjoy all the virgins there.

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## auspice

Let me re-post this again.



> Ma is crazy and barbaric.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We should not be afraid of the Taiwanese retaliations and sanctions since looking forward in the future.
> 
> They need us more than we need them.
> 
> I would suggest to BAN all the Chinese and Taiwanese nationals in the Philippines.
> 
> Less drug lords and smugglers. Less criminality. China and Taiwan are country of criminals, poachers and fvcking thieves.



The Philippines has done enough and doing a great job.

No more apologies. Let them impose their useless sanctions. They will just suffer the most.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Taiwan should remember China will always back you. Dont give up unless the maids apologize

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## auspice

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> Taiwan should remember China will always back you. Dont give up unless the maids apologize


You can start dreaming. Although it's sad to hear the US can't also afford to lose Taiwan as well.

The reunification between Taiwan and China is impossible as long as China remains Red. Besides Taiwan is our 'buffer' zones from a giant greedy crocodile. It will be a real threat, not only to the Philippines but also to US/Japan and the rest of East Asia if Taiwan falls to you especially that China is behaving like an arrogant global power. They rose in the wrong era, they're acting like in the inter-World War expansions, greedy and arrogant. They don't respect international laws. Such gambits should just be nuked right away if I were to decide but unlike them, PHLIPPINES adheres to international laws and thus we will behave like what a proper state should.

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## filipino_american

The PCG-BFAR spotted several radio beacon with two floating buoy markers some 39 nautical miles, east of Balintang Islands. They suspected that the buoys were long lines of Taiwanese fishing vessels. Soon after spotting the buoys, the PCG-BFAR was able to find the location of the Taiwanese fishing boats. 

They claimed that the Taiwanese fishermen had resisted to stop from their tracks while local sea authorities repeatedly fired warning shots in mid-air and blared their vessel's horn at the foreigners. 

&#8220;While on meeting situation, this unit then sounded warning through PA system and blow horn for the Taiwanese fishing vessel to stop for the conduct of fishing.. [The PCG] fired warning shots to alert the fishing vessel until the fishing vessel stopped and one of the crew of the fishing vesseel went outside,&#8221; the PCG said. 

But when the MCS-3001 vessel of PCG-BFAR was almost alongside of one of the fishing boat named Guang Ta Hsin-28, the PCG claimed that the engine of the Taiwanese vessel whirred to life, and the boat manuevered backward before speeding forward and it almost collided with the government ship's stern.

The patient Philippine authorities fired another round of warning shots but the Taiwanese vessel resisted to stop and engaged the PCG-BFAR in a high-speed sea chase. As a result, the commanding officer of the MCS-3001 ordered to open fire at Guang Ta Hsin-28 to disable its engine but accidentally killed Taiwanese fisherman named Hung Shih-cheng. 

&#8220;To stop the fishing vessel, this unit announced to fire for effects the engine side section of said Taiwanese fishing vessel to immobilize her [boat] and stop her [boat] engine,&#8221; the report said. 

While chasing after Guang Ta Hsin, the PCG-BFAR spotted at least two, new unidentified boats - one white and one gray &#8211; and this prompt them to disengage from their chase and leave as they were already outnumbered. 

Very very clear.......

1. The Taiwanese vessel REFUSED to STOP ILLEGAL FISHING in the Philippine EXCLUSIVE ZONE when they were found by the BFAR.

2. The Taiwanese vessel ignored "MULTIPLE" WARNING SHOTS from the BFAR

3. The Taiwanese vessel ignored warning through PA system from the BFAR

4. The Taiwanese vessel resisted to stop and engaged the BFAR in a high-speed sea chase

5. The Taiwanese vessel tried to RAM the BFAR boat.

The CHASING CAN JUSTIFY the SHOOTING alone , but the RAMMING was the BEST JUSTIFIED REASON FOR THE SHOOTING

I've seen many cases like this in AMERICA..... If you DO NOT STOP once the cops have notified you, YOU GET SHOT. What more if you TRY TO KILL A COP??? Would you expect them to do nothing???? This is NOT NEW anymore and TAIWAN IS JUST OVER REACTING

Just admit it TAIWAN, swallow your PRIDE. TELL THE WHOLE WORLD THAT YOUR SHIP WAS IN THE PHILIPPINE WATERS. DON'T YOU WONDER WHY AMERICA WONT CONDEMN THE PHILIPPINES? BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. NUFF SAID

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...d-fisherman-philippines-32.html#ixzz2TX8l6Pj8

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

auspice said:


> You can start dreaming. Although it's sad to hear that truth that US can't also afford to lose Taiwan as well.
> 
> The reunification between Taiwan and China is impossible as long as China remains Red. Besides Taiwan is our 'buffer' zones from a giant greedy crocodile. It will be a real threat, not only to the Philippines but also to US/Japan and the rest of East Asia if Taiwan falls to China especially that China is behaving like an arrogant global power. They rose in the wrong era, they're acting like in the inter-World War expansions, greedy and arrogant. They don't respect international laws. Such gambits should just be nuked right away if I were to decide but unlike them, PHLIPPINES adheres to international laws and thus we will behave like what a proper state should.



You are not more than a maid in other people's eyes. If there is no your American master, nobody cares about you


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## filipino_american

China's EEZ: 






Philippine EEZ, Territorial Waters and ARCHIPELAGIC WATERS:






The Incident Site:





Very Very Very CLEAR as a CRYSTAL

The INCIDENT happened in the TERRITORIAL WATERS OF THE PHILIPPINES and NOT within its EEZ

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## auspice

Don't worry Taiwan. The next time, when the new boats of Philippine Coast Guard arrive from Japan. There will be no shooting of boat from your illegal poachers/criminals/smugglers.






It should be something like this.



Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> You are not more than a maid in other people's eyes. If there is no your American master, nobody cares about you


OK. You can CRY as a RIVER now for shooting your fellow poacher.

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## sdjd2013

why does it matter where the shooting occurred?

I doubt that Taiwan will shoot water cannons at ph navy boats
you manuns have no idea how dire the situation is for manun land

and I doubt the U.S. will object to Taiwan sinking a few manun ships, b/c it will encourage the manuns to grant a 100 year lease of military bases and virgins

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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> why does it matter where the shooting occurred?



lol is that a question or just plain stupidity?


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## sdjd2013

auspice said:


> You can start dreaming. Although it's sad to hear the US can't also afford to lose Taiwan as well.
> 
> The reunification between Taiwan and China is impossible as long as China remains Red. Besides Taiwan is our 'buffer' zones from a giant greedy crocodile. It will be a real threat, not only to the Philippines but also to US/Japan and the rest of East Asia if Taiwan falls to you especially that China is behaving like an arrogant global power. They rose in the wrong era, they're acting like in the inter-World War expansions, greedy and arrogant. They don't respect international laws. Such gambits should just be nuked right away if I were to decide but unlike them, PHLIPPINES adheres to international laws and thus we will behave like what a proper state should.



well, that was true 20 years ago, but since the U.S. recognized one china, it is not inconsistent with the one china policy to let go Taiwan, except Taiwan has to join china willingly, provided no force or threat of force is used.



filipino_american said:


> lol is that a question or just plain stupidity?



no it's not a stupid question, but you are stupid for asking your question.

you can't use deadly force anywhere, genious

so the only relevant question is whether it was self defense, and from pcg's own admission that they gave chase, it was unlikely that the shooting occurred in self defense, smart guy

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## sdjd2013

I don't know how many dots I have to connect for Filipinos to make you see the picture

it's like teach sixth graders about common sense, not to mention etiquette and decency

go on, state your case, I don't have all night

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## sdjd2013

Meanwhile, the leadership of the US House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific called on the Philippines to apologize for the killing by its Coast Guard of the fisherman, punish the perpetrators and compensate the victim&#8217;s family.

&#8220;A government vessel&#8217;s shooting of an unarmed fishing boat is an act of violence and is in violation of international law,&#8221; chairman Steve Chabot and ranking member Eni Faleomaveaga said in a joint statement on Wednesday.

&#8220;Therefore, we call upon the Philippines to promptly and sincerely respond to the requests of the Taiwan government to apologize, punish the perpetrators, and provide proper compensation to the victim&#8217;s family based on humanitarian grounds.&#8221; &#8211; AP, Aurea Calica, Rudy Santos, Edu Punay, Jose Rodel Clapano, Marvin Sy, Mayen Jaymalin, Jaime Laude, Jose Katigbak (STAR Washington bureau)


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...d-fisherman-philippines-34.html#ixzz2TXCoT5TJ

now do you see my point?

yeah, I thought so, your SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUME. stfu with your racial epithets and get where the rubber meets the road.

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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> I don't know how many dots I have to connect for Filipinos to make you see the picture
> 
> it's like teach sixth graders about common sense, not to mention etiquette and decency
> 
> go on, state your case, I don't have all night



Truth hurts right?

You cannot accept the FACT that the INCIDENT happened in the Territorial Waters of the PHILIPPINES.

Taiwan has been AVOIDING to tell the public about this.

I don't wonder, because TAIWAN WILL LOSE FACE FOR SURE!

China's EEZ: 





Philippine EEZ, Territorial Waters and ARCHIPELAGIC WATERS:






The Incident Site:





Very Very Very CLEAR as a CRYSTAL

The INCIDENT happened in the TERRITORIAL WATERS OF THE PHILIPPINES and NOT within its EEZ

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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Truth hurts right?
> 
> You cannot accept the FACT that the INCIDENT happened in the Territorial Waters of the PHILIPPINES.
> 
> Taiwan has been AVOIDING to tell the public about this.
> 
> I don't wonder, because TAIWAN WILL LOSE FACE FOR SURE!
> 
> 
> The INCIDENT happened in the TERRITORIAL WATERS OF THE PHILIPPINES and NOT within its EEZ[/COLOR][/SIZE][/SIZE]



you are so incorrigible Ma should just drop a bomb on you to ease the suffering of the bereaved family.

big ******* deal, its slightly closer to the Philippines than Taiwan, You can't say it is not in Taiwan's backyard.

give me something fresh and more intelligible

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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> Meanwhile, the leadership of the US House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific called on the Philippines to apologize for the killing by its Coast Guard of the fisherman, punish the perpetrators and compensate the victim&#8217;s family.
> 
> &#8220;A government vessel&#8217;s shooting of an unarmed fishing boat is an act of violence and is in violation of international law,&#8221; chairman Steve Chabot and ranking member Eni Faleomaveaga said in a joint statement on Wednesday.
> 
> &#8220;Therefore, we call upon the Philippines to promptly and sincerely respond to the requests of the Taiwan government to apologize, punish the perpetrators, and provide proper compensation to the victim&#8217;s family based on humanitarian grounds.&#8221; &#8211; AP, Aurea Calica, Rudy Santos, Edu Punay, Jose Rodel Clapano, Marvin Sy, Mayen Jaymalin, Jaime Laude, Jose Katigbak (STAR Washington bureau)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...d-fisherman-philippines-34.html#ixzz2TXCoT5TJ
> 
> now do you see my point?
> 
> yeah, I thought so, your SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUME. stfu with your racial epithets and get where the rubber meets the road.



UNOFFICIAL statement from the U.S.

That lawmaker does not REPRESENT the U.S.

The TRUTH is, the US never condemned and will NEVER condemn the Philippines.

The US ambassador to the PH never ISSUED a statement that the Philippines should apologize.

Stop deceiving the PUBLIC.



sdjd2013 said:


> you are so incorrigible Ma should just drop a bomb on you to ease the suffering of the bereaved family.
> 
> big ******* deal, its slightly closer to the Philippines than Taiwan, You can't say it is not in Taiwan's backyard.
> 
> give me something fresh and more intelligible



Slightly CLOSER to the Philippines??? hahahaha

Any UNCLOS expert will laugh at you!

The Incident HAPPENED within the Philippine area of sovereignty.

Taiwan even BLURRED the Philippine ISLANDS to justify their CLAIM! How desperate right????


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## JSCh

ROC is not a signatory to UNCLOS. She can claim whatever area and is not bound by UNCLOS, same as the US.

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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> UNOFFICIAL statement from the U.S.
> 
> That lawmaker does not REPRESENT the U.S.
> 
> The TRUTH is, the US never condemned and will NEVER condemn the Philippines.
> 
> The US ambassador to the PH never ISSUED a statement that the Philippines should apologize.
> 
> Stop deceiving the PUBLIC.



He is not a spokesman, but they represent THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES, and this article was written by a major U.S. media . verify it for yourself, you ignorant person, you.... oh headaches...

p.s., you will notice the authors are all Filipinos

so don't tell me I am deceptive (the proper term)

law makers do not represent the U.S.? who do they represent? the Philippines?

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## sdjd2013

yeah, I guess you guys sleep on the real issues , but vibrant on personal attacks

how do you expect the world community to respect Filipinos?

you keep making irrelevant statements disguised under the topic, no wonder you only got 5 thanks out of 42 posts, smart guy

let me rephrase the only important question in this thread:

1) Was it self-defense?

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## sdjd2013

from all the comments made by the Philippine nationals in the forums I have attended within the last three days have proven to me, without a doubt, that most, if not all, Filipinos are incapable of reason and logic, and therefore it is useless to argue or reason with them. Either that, or the smart ones don't have time to show up in forums. I am still hopeful the leaders of the Philippines have the wisdom to see the big picture and all the mechanics at work here. Short of that, I say **** the Philippines and Ma should just stake out the unilateral EEZ demarcation with military force. Peace out.

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## Snomannen

filipino_american said:


> Hahaha this guy dont get the LOGIC
> 
> HK, TW, MACAU are very different from CHINA, they dont even want to be labelled "from CHINA" lol
> 
> A true hong konger would get what I am saying. tee hee.
> 
> 
> 
> Once more, keep dreaming!



Scottish are very different from English, but they are both people of Britian.
Ryukyu people are very different from "mainland Japaese", they are both Japanese and Ryukyu is part of Japan with no doubt. 
Even you are killing your so-called brothers from the south, both of you people are all Pinoys. 
I am a Macau and Hong Kong citizen, I am fine to be labeled as Chinese and people from China. What are you then, the Emperor of Macau and Hong Kong? You a outsider dare to judge and point around who is 'true' or not? You are the one who is acting extremely arrogant and doesn't make a sense of logic in your brain.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

sdjd2013 said:


> yeah, I guess you guys sleep on the real issues , but vibrant on personal attacks
> 
> how do you expect the world community to respect Filipinos?
> 
> you keep making irrelevant statements disguised under the topic, no wonder you only got 5 thanks out of 42 posts, smart guy
> 
> let me rephrase the only important question in this thread:
> 
> 1) Was it self-defense?



You're just like a broken recorder, your question has been answered numerous times already...you just have to backread. The answer is YES. Our Philippine coast guard fired in self defense when the Taiwanese fishing boat tried to ram our ship. You have to use your common sense...why is there only 52 bullet holes if the intention of our Philippine CG is to kill...we have the capability not only to kill all those onboard the Taiwanese fishing vessels...but to sink it as well. How many hours did our Philippine coast guard ship had been chasing the Taiwanese fishing boats??? During those hours...how many bullets could have we fired if our intention is to kill??? Thousands of bullets would have riddled those boats and they would sink due to bullet holes. 

Read this:

*PCG describes Balintang Channel incident - 'like a scene from an action movie'*
By Leonard D. Postrado
Published: May 16, 2013

The way the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) described the May 9 shooting of Taiwanese fishermen off the coast of Balintang island was like telling a scene out of an action movie: a government vessel precariously dodging two fishing boats that tried to sink the law enforcer's ship as they engaged the bad guys in a high seas chase.

A three-page, incident report of the PCG that was obtained by the Manila Bulletin from a PCG insider showed how the Taiwanese fishermen violently and dangerously tried to evade their arrest after they were caught poaching at the sea located some 39 nautical miles off Bantayan Island.

The report, which was corroborated by a video on the maritime incident in Balintang Channel last May 9 that resulted to the death of a 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman, was among the documents submitted by the PCG to the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) since the bureau commenced its investigation on Wednesday. 

&#8220;One of the Taiwanese vessel maneuvered to ramp our starboard bow. This unit executed reverse [gear] to avoid collision,&#8221; said the PCG report. 

Based on the report, the MCS-3001, a 35-meter vessel jointly manned by the Coast Guard and personnel from the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR), set sail in the northern part of Batanes last May 8, 2013, to conduct seaborne patrol and monitoring control and surveillance against illegal fishing. 

The following day, the PCG-BFAR spotted several radio beacon with two floating buoy markers some 39 nautical miles, east of Balintang Islands. They suspected that the buoys were long lines of Taiwanese fishing vessels. Soon after spotting the buoys, the PCG-BFAR was able to find the location of the Taiwanese fishing boats. 

They claimed that the Taiwanese fishermen had resisted to stop from their tracks while local sea authorities repeatedly fired warning shots in mid-air and blared their vessel's horn at the foreigners. 

&#8220;While on meeting situation, this unit then sounded warning through PA system and blow horn for the Taiwanese fishing vessel to stop for the conduct of fishing.. [The PCG] fired warning shots to alert the fishing vessel until the fishing vessel stopped and one of the crew of the fishing vesseel went outside,&#8221; the PCG said. 

But when the MCS-3001 vessel of PCG-BFAR was almost alongside of one of the fishing boat named Guang Ta Hsin-28, the PCG claimed that the engine of the Taiwanese vessel whirred to life, and the boat manuevered backward before speeding forward and it almost collided with the government ship's stern.

The patient Philippine authorities fired another round of warning shots but the Taiwanese vessel resisted to stop and engaged the PCG-BFAR in a high-speed sea chase. As a result, the commanding officer of the MCS-3001 ordered to open fire at Guang Ta Hsin-28 to disable its engine but accidentally killed Taiwanese fisherman named Hung Shih-cheng. 

&#8220;To stop the fishing vessel, this unit announced to fire for effects the engine side section of said Taiwanese fishing vessel to immobilize her [boat] and stop her [boat] engine,&#8221; the report said. 

While chasing after Guang Ta Hsin, the PCG-BFAR spotted at least two, new unidentified boats - one white and one gray &#8211; and this prompt them to disengage from their chase and leave as they were already outnumbered. 

PCG describes Balintang Channel incident - 'like a scene from an action movie'

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## Malaya

Gawd enough of this apology. The apology was already given but Taiwan rejects it and will still impose sanctions. That is their choice and problem. The Philippines has been diplomatic but should not be too nice when we are already being bullied.


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## Malaya

*Sanctions on OFWs will not affect Philippine economy*
Asia Published on Thursday, 16 May 2013

Senior Filipino officials believe that the recent sanctions imposed by Taiwan will not have any significant impact on the Philippine economy. Taiwan has imposed a hiring freeze against overseas Filipino workers (OFWs) after a fisherman Hung Shih-cheng was killed in disputed waters.

*&#8220;Imposing economic sanctions on the Philippines might not necessarily be in Taiwan's favor, and the Philippine economy might not be hurt as much as we expect,&#8221; *Taiwan News quoted Gordon Sun, director of a macroeconomic forecasting center.

Labor Secretary Rosalinda Baldoz says there are only around 2,500 Filipinos deployed monthly [to Taiwan] hence imposing sanctions like the OFWs back home would do more harm to Taiwan&#8217;s economy than to the Philippines.

Baldoz confirmed that around* 85,000 OFWs are working in Taiwan, a mere 0.0085 percent of the estimated 10 million Filipino workers around the world*. She said eliminating Filipino workers could have an adverse affect on Taiwan's economy.

*&#8220;I don't think this will be very significant economically. Investments or trade could be delayed, but that's just it. This is not something we will lose sleep about,&#8221;* agreed University of Asia and the Pacific senior economist Victor Abola.

*&#8220;What is happening now is a political reaction of the Taiwanese government&#8230; It's an issue that will stay as long as there will be political clamor for it. Businesswise, Taiwanese traders and businessmen have long kept relationships with other countries which their government has locked horns with. A lot of them still do business in China,&#8221; *Abola added.


--------------------------------------------------------

Taiwanese President is an opportunist. They are over-reacting and very demanding. 

We've gone an extra mile for them and that is enough. 

The Philippines has done enough.

--------------------------------------------------------


*Palace: PH went the 'extra mile' on Taiwan*

by Willard Cheng, ABS-CBN News
Posted at 05/16/2013

Says sanctions would hurt Taiwan too

*MANILA - Malacañang said the Philippines &#8220;has gone the extra mile&#8221; in responding to the demands of Taiwan following the death of a Taiwanese fisherman, including sending a personal representative of President Aquino to convey his and the Filipino people&#8217;s expression of regret and apology.*

*&#8220;We did what a decent member, a respectable member of the international community, should have done. And we did it. We have gone the extra mile. The President has sent a personal representative to extend his apology to the family of Mr. Hung Shi-chen. We have acted uprightly and decently as a respectable member of the international community,&#8221;* Presidential spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said.

Lacierda said the Philippine government has prepared a contingency plan to deal with the sanctions imposed by Taiwan. At the same time, the Palace pointed out that the sanctions would not do both sides good.

Presidential spokesperson Edwin Lacierda cited the red alert imposed by Taiwan on travel to the Philippines as an example to show that the sanction will also hurt Taiwanese airline companies.

&#8220;We have already prepared for the contingencies. A ban on travel will not only hurt us, it will hurt both countries. It does not do anyone any good. A travel from their end will be affected as well. Their airlines will be affected. So does it help both countries if you do a travel ban?&#8221; Lacierda said.

Lacierda declined to elaborate on the contingency plan.

He dismissed statements that the Philippines violated international law, reiterating that incident happened in Philippine waters.

&#8220;Our Coast Guard has already mentioned that the incident happened within our exclusive economic zone and we have no dispute to that effect. Based on our statement previously and based on the statement of chairman Perez, we certainly regret the loss of life and we apologize for the unfortunate and unintended loss&#8212;but let me emphasize&#8212;in the course of a fisheries law enforcement operation within our waters,&#8221; Lacierda said.

The Palace declined to comment on observations that the Taiwanese government may just be exploiting the issue for political reasons especially since Taiwan president Ma Ying-jeou&#8217;s is suffering from low approval ratings. Lacierda said it is for the public to judge if it is indeed so.

*'DON'T HURT OFWs'*

Meantime, the Palace appealed to the people of Taiwan not to vent their anger at Filipinos there amid reports that overseas Filipino workers (OFWs) are being harassed.

Lacierda trusts that these are isolated incidents.

&#8220;Ito pong ginagawa ng iilang Taiwanese, naniniwala kami na ito po ay isolated incidents lang po. Hindi po ito kagagawan po ng sambayanang Taiwan. Naniniwala kami at nirerespto namin ang ating mga kaibigan na nasa Taiwan. But let me also again appeal to them, to the Taiwnaese people, to refrain from hurting or making our Filipino compatriots there as instrument of their anger. It does not sit well with anyone&#8230; We would expect that they will be treated decently as we do treat their Taiwanese nationals here decently,&#8221; Lacierda said.

*PEREZ&#8217;s STATEMENT*

The Palace belied reports that Taiwanese officials snubbed the President&#8217;s representative. Lacierda said that MECO chair Amadeo Perez was able to meet with Director-General Benjamin Ho of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs&#8217; Department of East Asian and Pacific Affairs.

Lacierda read the following statement of Perez issued in Taiwan before he left for the Philippines:

&#8220;In my capacity as the designated personal representative of President Benigno S. Aquino III, I came to convey the President&#8217;s and the Filipino people&#8217;s deep regret and apology over the unfortunate and unintended loss of life in the course of a fisheries law enforcement operation on 09 May 2013 by a Philippine Coast Guard/Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources maritime patrol in waters in the northern Philippines.

&#8220;I also came to convey our readiness to give financial assistance to the family of Mr. Hung as a token of solidarity and as an expression of sympathy by the Filipino people for the demise of Mr. Hung.

&#8220;Upon orders from the President, the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) has already initiated the investigation and is committed to a thorough, exhaustive, impartial and expeditious investigation of the incident. The NBI has given this case the highest priority.

&#8220;I am grateful for the meeting with Director-General Benjamin Ho of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs last night. We understand the grief and hurt of the family and of the people of Taiwan over this unfortunate loss and we wish to reaffirm the high regard and respect of the people of the Philippines for the people of Taiwan.&#8221;

*NO JOINT INVESTIGATION*

Asked about reports that Taiwanese investigators have flown to Manila to conduct a probe into the incident, Lacierda said the *Philippine government was not made aware of Taiwan&#8217;s plan and that there are protocols to go through under a mutual legal assistance arrangement*.

Palace: PH went the 'extra mile' on Taiwan | ABS-CBN News


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## Malaya

*US lauds PH for expression of regret over Taiwan incident*
By Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer

*MANILA, Philippines &#8212; The United States is optimistic that the Philippines and Taiwan will eventually thresh out their current spat over the shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman within the Philippine territorial waters last week, an incident that has prompted an angry Taipei to impose sanctions against Manila.
*
Calling both the *Philippines and Taiwan &#8220;friends&#8221; of the US*, American Ambassador to the Philippines Harry Thomas Jr. expressed confidence that the two sides will eventually iron out the rough patch as he lauded the Philippines for apologizing for the incident.

*&#8220;Both the Philippines and Taiwan are long-standing friends of the US*. *The Philippines is a strategic ally of the US*. *Taiwan is a partner. And, as in all cases, we know that these things will be resolved through negotiations,&#8221; *Thomas told reporters Thursday.

*&#8220;We applaud President Aquino and his government&#8217;s expression of regret over this incident [and] the fact that they&#8217;ve agreed to an investigation&#8230; We&#8217;re glad that they&#8217;re gonna work these things out as democracies do,&#8221;* Thomas said on the sidelines of a reception of US agencies for local partners at a new annex facility inside the US Embassy compound in Manila.

Earlier this week, Washington expressed concern over the shooting, an incident that has roiled ties between the Philippines and Taiwan.

The two sides lay their respective stakes on territories in the already tense West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

Taiwan has halted the hiring of Filipinos, issued a travel advisory and held military drills near Philippine maritime borders in continuing protest of last week&#8217;s shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG).

The PCG has admitted to the shooting but explained that patrolling officers fired on the Taiwanese fishing vessel as it had encroached into Philippine territorial waters and threatened to ram their boat.

US State Department spokesperson Patrick Ventrell on Wednesday called on both sides &#8220;to take all appropriate measures to clarify disagreements and prevent recurrence of such tragic events.&#8221;

The US has long been watchful of the situation in Asia-Pacific waters, with such sea lanes important in both its trade and defense interests.

International law expert Harry Roque, chairman of the Center for International Law, meanwhile said it was just rightful for the Philippines to apologize for the shooting as the sea death was an &#8220;internationally wrongful act.&#8221;

He said the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, an international pact prescribing rules on conduct in the high seas, &#8220;prohibits the unnecessary use of force in dealing with illegal fishermen.&#8221;

&#8220;Bereft of evidence that our Coast Guard acted in self-defense, our coast guards&#8217; shooting of the lone fisherman is an internationally wrongful act for which we should apologize and pay compensation,&#8221; said Roque.

He, however, cautioned the government against giving into Taiwan&#8217;s demands, citing the country&#8217;s standing one-China policy.
As earlier stated by the Department of Foreign Affairs, the Manila Economic and Cultural Office under the Office of the President is in charge of &#8220;all Taiwan matters.&#8221;

*&#8220;Because our apology was belated, Taiwan is now exploiting the situation. We must not fall for the trap and uphold the one-China policy,&#8221;* said Roque.

*&#8220;Taiwan is not a state. It&#8217;s part of China. We hence should not enter into a fishery agreement as demanded by Taiwan as part of the settlement for the incident. A fishing agreement, if any, should be with China,&#8221; *added the lawyer.

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## Malaya

*PH not threatened by Taiwan drills*
By Madel Sabater &#8211; Namit
Published: May 17, 2013

*Malacañang on Friday said the military drills conducted by Taiwan should not be a cause for concern as long as it is done in international waters.* 

Deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte said the Philippine government is not threatened by Taiwan&#8217;s military drills. 

*&#8220;As a matter of rule, as long as the activity is within their borders or in the high seas, then it should not be a concern for us,&#8221;* Valte said. 

The Taiwanese government has conducted military exercises in the waters between Taiwan and the Philippines following the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman in the Balintang Channel. 

It will be recalled that China also conducted military exercises near the Philippines but the Palace had said it is not a threat as long as the Philippines&#8217; maritime zones are respected. 

Valte meanwhile said the proposal to send former President Fidel V. Ramos to Taiwan to de-escalate tensions between Taiwan and the Philippines will be discussed with President Aquino. 

It was former chairman of the House of Representatives&#8217; Committee on Foreign Affairs Apolinario Lozada Jr. who proposed that President Aquino should send the former President to apologize to Taiwan. 

&#8220;That is something that we will have to discuss to the President,&#8221; Valte said. 

She also said the Palace would not wish to make statements that would further escalate tensions between Taiwan and the Philippines even as China expressed rage over the incident. 

&#8220;At this point, what we are after, really, is to look at what we will do in light of the sanctions perhaps not for discussion at this point, again, avoiding escalation,&#8221; Valte said. 

*&#8220;Our primary concern would be for the welfare of the citizens over there and second, the possible effects the sanctions may have on our OFWs who are there,&#8221;* she said. 

Valte also reiterated that the Philippine government has not approved any joint investigation with Taiwanese investigators on the incident in Balintang Channel. The National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) has already started the investigation on the incident. 

*&#8220;There is a particular process that should be followed and the process should be followed,&#8221;* she said. 

*&#8220;As to the timeline, the Secretary of Justice did not give a particular timeline but she did assure that the NBI will be giving the highest priority to the investigation that is being conducted,&#8221;* Valte said. 

*&#8220;That being said, we at this point, do not wish to talk about the details given that the investigation is ongoing and we would like to wait for the final report,&#8221;* she added. 

PH not threatened by Taiwan drills


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## Malaya

*Philippine sanctions to impact Taiwan: minister*

By John Liu, The China Post
May 17, 2013 12:18 am TWN

*TAIPEI, Taiwan -- The Executive Yuan rolled out economic sanctions against the Philippines, which Economic Affairs Minister Chang Chia-juch (&#24373;&#23478;&#31069 said will not affect Taiwan's economy in the short term, though the nation's imports and exports will take a hit in the long run.*

Unsatisfied with the Philippine government's response to the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28 (&#24291;&#22823;&#33288;28&#34399 incident, the Executive Yuan initiated the second-wave of economic sanctions against the Philippines.

Taiwan plans to withhold any promotional activities aimed at increasing bilateral trade. The government will withhold official and nonofficial exhibitions, business solicitation activities, business invitations, all meetings and technology exchange, etc. Local businesses have expressed willingness to cooperate with the government to cease trading with the Philippines and conduct business with other countries instead.

According to the Ministry of Economic Affairs, economic sanction measures rolled out include postponing or temporarily ending bilateral economic and trade exchanges, delaying or withholding business promotions, not encouraging Taiwanese businesses to make investments in the Philippines, delaying invitations to Philippine officials to visit Taiwan, as well as postponing the Taiwan External Trade Development Council's plan to set up a Taiwan trade center in Manila.

*There is a close relationship between Taiwan and the Philippines in terms of trade*, Chang said, with* total trade nearing US$11 billion*. *Taiwan's exports to the Philippines amounted to $US8.87 billion in 2012*, *while Taiwan's imports from the Philippines amounted to US$2.1 billion*, *giving Taiwan a trade surplus of US$$6.77 billion*.

*Chang Chia-juch said in the Legislative Yuan yesterday that the ministry cannot predict the scale of impact on Taiwan in terms of a dollar amount. He said however, that withholding promotional activities that aim to increase bilateral business trade will have a direct impact on bilateral trade in the future.*

Chang said that since there is only a stoppage of promotional economic activities, while direct trading between the two countries still continues, the ministry is unable to estimate the exact impact at this time. Chang is sure, however, that direct trade between the two countries will be affected in the long run.

*&#8220;We cannot predict the actual loss at this time, but direct trade between the two countries will be affected. Without promotions, there will less need, affecting exports and imports. Bilateral trade between the two countries has not stopped, in accordance with WTO regulations,&#8221;* Chang said.

Economic Planning and Development Minister Kuan Chung-ming (&#31649;&#20013;&#38292 said although trade between Taiwan and the Philippines is only a small portion of Taiwan's overall economy, a stoppage on economic promotional activities will affect trade expansion.

Philippine sanctions to impact Taiwan: minister - The China Post


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## 3310

People to people relations wont be affected. Chinese schools here in the philippines are usually run by taiwanese leaning citizens. I remember taiwan's 10/10 celebrations here. Playing taiwan's national anthem? you don't see that often. It's very rare to see simplified chinese characters here. A picture of Dr. Sun Yat Sen's image can also be seen side by side with Dr. Jose Rizal's.


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## Fsjal

Malaya said:


> Gawd enough of this apology. The apology was already given but Taiwan rejects it and will still impose sanctions. That is their choice and problem. The Philippines has been diplomatic but should not be too nice when we are already being bullied.



"being bullied"

More like bullying Taiwan


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## bdslph

maybe they thought it was Chinese fisherman 
but it is sad what has happened it shouldn't have 

taiwan is angry as last time it was the bus incident and now this one 

may be the guy who was in the sea was trigger happy , so it should be joint investigation and the person who did it should also face law 

this kind of bullying or angry will not work China will exploit this situation


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## Malaya

Fsjal said:


> "being bullied"
> 
> More like bullying Taiwan


Yes and I hope the Philippines will not give in to this bullying maneuver of this Chinese province.

(To all Filipinos: Beware pala sa Chinese poster na'to  na nagpapanggap na Pilipino.)


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## sdjd2013

Malaya said:


> Yes and I hope the Philippines will not give in to this bullying maneuver of this Chinese province.
> 
> (To all Filipinos: Beware pala sa Chinese poster na'to  na nagpapanggap na Pilipino.)



excuse me, it was an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman who was chased down and killed by Filipino soldiers?!!?? who is the bully?? You guys are un ******* believable.

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## canadian icehole

Taipei-Manila Row: Incident does not surprise a veteran captain once detained in Philippines

Watching TV news reports about the ongoing diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines, veteran seafarer Chang Chang-lung (&#24373;&#26124;&#38534 said he was not at all surprised.

&#8220;The trouble is due to the problem of overlapping maritime jurisdictions. If the issue is not resolved, tragedies such as this will occur again,&#8221; said Chang, a seasoned sea captain from Pingtung&#8217;s Hengchun Peninsula, who has had three perilous encounters with Philippine marine authorities.

The 58-year-old Chang has been a fisherman since his youth.

He recalled his first encounter with a Philippine vessel in 1991, when his ship sailed to about 20 degrees north latitude, a marine area Pingtung sailors call Toudiapsuan (&#38518;&#30090;&#23665 in Hoklo (commonly known as Taiwanese).

Chang said a Philippine naval vessel started approaching his ship at high speed, and he turned his ship around to get away.

&#8220;However, our boat was too slow. *The Philippine vessel then started shooting at us with machine guns*. All of us hid inside the boat&#8217;s cabin,&#8221; Chang said. &#8220;When we got back home, we counted more than *30 bullet holes* in the boat.&#8221;

After that, Chang said he spent more than NT$3 million (US$100,370) to purchase a new fishing boat with a bigger engine.

&#8220;However, in 1997, in the same stretch of water, we were chased by Philippine naval ships and pursued by a military helicopter. Luckily we managed to escape without much damage [to the boat],&#8221; the captain said.

A third encounter came in 2001, which he described as a terrible nightmare for him and his crew.

Chang said they had just started to fish early in the morning and did not notice armed men approaching their boat in sampans. The men came aboard to search the boat.

&#8220;They had guns, so we could not put up a fight,&#8221; Chang said.

&#8220;*They had a dynamite stick with them and planted it in our cabin as false evidence. We were accused of fishing illegally using dynamite, even though we have not caught anything yet*,&#8221; Chang said.

His ship and crew were detained and taken to the port of Aparri, at the northern tip of Luzon Island.

Chang said they were put under house arrest for six months and the Philippine authorities demanded US$100,000 for their release.

They were only released to board a flight &#8220;to escape back to Taiwan&#8221; after paying NT$600,000 (US$19,960) in bribes to Philippine officials, through the assistance of well-connected Chinese Filipinos, Chang said.

&#8220;Along with my confiscated ship and the money spent on bribes during our six months in detention, this &#8216;accidental journey&#8217; cost me about NT$5 million,&#8221; he added.

After hearing of his experience, the fishermen of Hengchun Peninsula were scared and nobody dared go into that stretch of water again, he said.

&#8220;Since then, only fishermen from Donggang [&#26481;&#28207;, another Pingtung port to the northwest of Hengchun] would go there, but they are gambling with their lives,&#8221; Chang said.

&#8220;The Philippine navy always gives us trouble. They have about 17 islands in that stretch of marine territory and they have five different naval units stationed around there,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;Even with a signed agreement on fishing around one of the islands, Philippine naval units from the other islands would still give us trouble. Filipino fishermen would report Taiwanese fishing boats&#8217; position to their naval units. It was impossible to safeguard ourselves over there,&#8221; Chang added.

He also denounced the *behavior of Filipino seamen*, which he *described as &#8220;atrocious.&#8221;*

*"When these navy sailors and officers came aboard our boat, they would loot almost everything we had, from raincoats and videotapes to food, tissues and other materials," Chang said.

"If we were lucky, we were allowed to leave and go home, otherwise they would plant evidence against us and confiscate our boat. They would strip the boat&#8217;s engine and all the usable instruments. Then they would demand that we pay a heavy fine," he added.*

Chang recalled elderly fishermen advising them to keep about NT$500,000 in cash on board, so if their boat was detained by Philippine seamen, giving them the cash usually could ensure the crew&#8217;s safety and the boat&#8217;s release.

"However, the overlapping economic exclusion zones of Taiwan and the Philippines are troublesome. If our own government does not take strong action to resolve the matter, Taiwanese fishermen may have to give up this large fishing area. Or else, the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 27 incident will not be the last," Chang said.

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## sdjd2013

Malaya said:


> Gawd enough of this apology. The apology was already given but Taiwan rejects it and will still impose sanctions. That is their choice and problem. The Philippines has been diplomatic but should not be too nice when we are already being bullied.



I'd agree. That is one mistake Ma has made, keep demanding for an apology, when the real issues are determining if the shooting was warranted and compensation.

I hardly think the moment happened like a movie scene. If I had to use a movie to describe it, I would probably say the "Killing Field" to describe what had happened - 42 out of 52 shots aimed at the Captains cabin, while he was running away, not presenting any danger to anyone. Even assuming , for the sake of argument, that he ignored the blare horn and continue to fish, and then try to back up the ship and try to ram the 80ton steel ship with his 30 ton fiberglass boat on high seas, risking killing his son and son in law, in order to run away from the PCG boat, the coastguard said they backed up, and then went forward (as though they peeled rubber) almost hitting the coastguard ship, and but for the coastguard's quick reverse, the fishing boat 1/3 the size would have collided with the coastguard. B/c the fishing boat resisted the warning to stop, they ordered the shooting.. 

Questions:

1) how fast was the fishing boat going when it shifted from reverse to forward that almost collided with the coastguard? such that the coastguard had enough time to reverse the gear to avoid collision? remember, this all happened on water, not land.
2) If a collision was avoided, how was the coastguard in danger when it gave chase? it was the one chasing, not being chased, and there was no other information provided that would indicate a danger to the coastguard. Are you saying they were going so fast on water that the boat could have flipped over? that's absurd.
3) If the coastguard intended to shoot the engine, why did 42 of the 52 bullets landed in the captain's cabin? and then, they claim "accidental" killing. How can it be accidental when you aimed most of your shots at the captain?

RUBBISH, LIES,

Now Aguino is telling the world press that Ma is jealous of Aguino for having such high ratings in his own country, unlike Ma, and say the sanctions are a way to bully the smaller country. He has turned this serious matter into a circus sideshow between him and Ma. 

WOW, WHO IS BEING DECEPTIVE?

by the way, where is the video to prove the PCG story to NBI? I don't think they will produce that for a while, and when they do, its probably heavily edited, and the one minutia part that supports the story will appear blurry and questionable, leaving all viewers in a quandary.


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## Khitan21

The Filipinos are definitely in the wrong here, why? because the victim here was just one old fishermen whose nationalistic view probably clouded his sense of safety, but this gives no right for the the Philippines to open fire continuously and subsequently KILL the old man. I can't believe how incompetent and irresponsible these Filipino coast guards are.

Even with the island disputes with Japan , the Japanese never killed anyone; they just shoot water or arrest people, like what the Philippines should of done...but no, it is clear this country is a warmongering nation that wants to drag the US into supporting the Philippines blood lust. But too bad for the Philippines, The US will be neutral when conflict does ensue.

Here is a 2 min video of facts on what happened there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j5JzRUQZdwo

sorry if its been posted already, I can't be stuffed reading 40+ pages of cap locks and seizure red texts. 

Also, the picture posted by that whiny mushroom tip licking Zero Wing; red neck hill billies put signs similar to that on their property which is fitting considering the Philippines is also a country filled with red necks.

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## Zero_wing

Well its them chinese have been stealing from us are you telling me that's a lie too


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## Zero_wing

Khitan21 said:


> The Filipinos are definitely in the wrong here, why? because the victim here was just one old fishermen whose nationalistic view probably clouded his sense of safety, but this gives no right for the the Philippines to open fire continuously and subsequently KILL the old man. I can't believe how incompetent and irresponsible these Filipino coast guards are.
> 
> Even with the island disputes with Japan , the Japanese never killed anyone; they just shoot water or arrest people, like what the Philippines should of done...but no, it is clear this country is a warmongering nation that wants to drag the US into supporting the Philippines blood lust. But too bad for the Philippines, The US will be neutral when conflict does ensue.
> 
> Here is a 2 min video of facts on what happened there:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j5JzRUQZdwo
> 
> sorry if its been posted already, I can't be stuffed reading 40+ pages of cap locks and seizure red texts.
> 
> Also, the picture posted by that whiny mushroom tip licking Zero Wing; red neck hill billies put signs similar to that on their property which is fitting considering the Philippines is also a country filled with red necks.



Because it is the thing happen in our waters just 80 miles from a Philippine Province tell me something its our backyard why are going here and when a PCG ship ask you to stop why ram it? and again why pick on the Philippines? majority of you people are don't tell me am lying because the post speak for its selves overlapping my foot! you were caught and you try to ram ship and don't tell me its not because its common to all you people its insulting that people like you have the nerve to call b.s on my country because we can't defend ourselves you people have so nerve to call me names while you people don't even know what soap is! you people are nothing but bunch of racist jerks lets wait for the investigations to be over well! well why do i bother you people racist after all


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## Filipino

Why would an unarmed boat attempt to ram a ship with eight times its volume (remember, half length also means half beam and half draft -- not to mention one is fiberglass and the other one is metal). That doesn't make sense. Why are the other Filipinos taking that at face value? Why would anyone believe a crazy story like that? Do you realize how stupid you're making us look to other nationalities? Have you never been bullied by a PNP cop before who lied about what he was doing to get away with it?

Do you not realize that fishing in someone else's waters doesn't justify killing them? Are you serious that 52 bullets isn't a lot (remember, shooting at moving targets in the wavy seas is hard, if there are 52 holes there are hundreds that missed). Are you sure that chasing the small boat for hours and shooting it the whole time means we showed restraint instead of making us look like crazy murderers? Do you realize that claiming self defense only works if the other party *was capable of killing us or causing damage*?

Or are you just blindly defending and posturing because one side has the Filipino flag on it.

This is a really bad year to be a Filipino on the internet. First it was that stupid business in Sabah and then now this

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## sdjd2013

Filipino said:


> Why would an unarmed boat attempt to ram a ship with eight times its volume (remember, half length also means half beam and half draft -- not to mention one is fiberglass and the other one is metal). That doesn't make sense. Why are the other Filipinos taking that at face value? Why would anyone believe a crazy story like that? Do you realize how stupid you're making us look to other nationalities? Have you never been bullied by a PNP cop before who lied about what he was doing to get away with it?
> 
> Do you not realize that fishing in someone else's waters doesn't justify killing them? Are you serious that 52 bullets isn't a lot (remember, shooting at moving targets in the wavy seas is hard, if there are 52 holes there are hundreds that missed). Are you sure that chasing the small boat for hours and shooting it the whole time means we showed restraint instead of making us look like crazy murderers? Do you realize that claiming self defense only works if the other party *was capable of killing us or causing damage*?
> 
> Or are you just blindly defending and posturing because one side has the Filipino flag on it.
> 
> This is a really bad year to be a Filipino on the internet. First it was that stupid business in Sabah and then now this



Because of you, I remain hopeful this conflict will resolve amicably.

if half of the people in Philippines voice concerns like you, I am sure Ma will quickly back down on the sanctions.

Ma is the cleanest president Taiwan has ever had, but too naïve and not enough cunning -- typical Harvard grad.

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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> Well its them chinese have been stealing from us are you telling me that's a lie too



fishing in disputed waters is a stealing? how about Taiwan arrests all fisherman who come close to the 20th parallel and call them thieves?

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## sdjd2013

Khitan21 said:


> The Filipinos are definitely in the wrong here, why? because the victim here was just one old fishermen whose nationalistic view probably clouded his sense of safety, but this gives no right for the the Philippines to open fire continuously and subsequently KILL the old man. I can't believe how incompetent and irresponsible these Filipino coast guards are.
> 
> Even with the island disputes with Japan , the Japanese never killed anyone; they just shoot water or arrest people, like what the Philippines should of done...but no, it is clear this country is a warmongering nation that wants to drag the US into supporting the Philippines blood lust. But too bad for the Philippines, The US will be neutral when conflict does ensue.
> 
> Here is a 2 min video of facts on what happened there:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j5JzRUQZdwo
> 
> sorry if its been posted already, I can't be stuffed reading 40+ pages of cap locks and seizure red texts.
> 
> Also, the picture posted by that whiny mushroom tip licking Zero Wing; red neck hill billies put signs similar to that on their property which is fitting considering the Philippines is also a country filled with red necks.



nice slideshow, very informative.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> fishing in disputed waters is a stealing? how about Taiwan arrests all fisherman who come close to the 20th parallel and call them thieves?



Yes because this just 80 miles from a Philippine Province



sdjd2013 said:


> nice slideshow, very informative.



Yes glorify hating filipinos just like the Nazi's killing many people did in world war 2


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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> Yes because this just 80 miles from a Philippine Province
> 
> 
> 
> Yes glorify hating filipinos just like the Nazi's killing many people did in world war 2



WTF are you talking about, half the time you don't even make sense. Take a chill pill and get with the program man.



Filipino said:


> Why would an unarmed boat attempt to ram a ship with eight times its volume (remember, half length also means half beam and half draft -- not to mention one is fiberglass and the other one is metal). That doesn't make sense. Why are the other Filipinos taking that at face value? Why would anyone believe a crazy story like that? Do you realize how stupid you're making us look to other nationalities? Have you never been bullied by a PNP cop before who lied about what he was doing to get away with it?
> 
> Do you not realize that fishing in someone else's waters doesn't justify killing them? Are you serious that 52 bullets isn't a lot (remember, shooting at moving targets in the wavy seas is hard, if there are 52 holes there are hundreds that missed). Are you sure that chasing the small boat for hours and shooting it the whole time means we showed restraint instead of making us look like crazy murderers? Do you realize that claiming self defense only works if the other party *was capable of killing us or causing damage*?
> 
> Or are you just blindly defending and posturing because one side has the Filipino flag on it.
> 
> This is a really bad year to be a Filipino on the internet. First it was that stupid business in Sabah and then now this



would any Filipino care to respond to this msg? Or are you going to say he is an imposter?


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## faithfulguy

Its time for Taiwan to institute put a no access zone around Luzon. And blockade Manila. Any ship that tries to run the blockade will be sunk. Until the compensation is paid in full. The compensation should be around $30 million.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Taiwan president calls for calm as mob sends Filipino to hospital*
By: Agence France-Presse
May 18, 2013 8:50 AM

TAIPEI - Taiwan's leader on Friday called for calm and promised to protect Filipinos on the island amid widespread anger at the Philippines over the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman.

Anti-Manila sentiments mounted after a 65-year-old fisherman was shot dead last week by Philippine coastguards who said his vessel intruded into Philippine waters.

Taiwanese media have reported an attack on a Filipino, tourists cancelling planned visits to the Philippines and some supermarkets removing food from the Philippines from their shelves.

Taiwan president calls for calm as mob sends Filipino to hospital - InterAksyon.com

The Taiwanese President is stupid...he inflamed the Taiwanese people and now he's calling for calm because a lot of Filipinos are getting hurt and harrassed, and racially discriminated. He should have not inflamed the Taiwanese public....he should have just said the TRUTH....Taiwanese fishermen are poaching in Philippine EEZ and there's no overlapping EEZ...and Batanes Islands is undisputed.


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## Zero_wing

See and you called us uncivilized so tell me how many Taiwanese hurt in the Philippines zero! You people are hypocrisies just like your mainlander brothers you fish in our waters you ram our ship now your hurting filipinos may araw rin kayo mga hayop!

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## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> See and you called us uncivilized so tell me how many Taiwanese hurt in the Philippines zero! You people are hypocrisies just like your mainlander brothers you fish in our waters you ram our ship now your hurting filipinos may araw rin kayo mga hayop!



Geez you are loosing it. You are having a break down. Calm down take a deep breath and take your Haldol.

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## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Geez you are loosing it. You are having a break down. Calm down take a deep breath and take your Haldol.



Thanks admiral general much appreciated of all the nay anti filipinos here like you the most because you always know to the right things i can laugh at that's million man!  



sdjd2013 said:


> Because of you, I remain hopeful this conflict will resolve amicably.
> 
> if half of the people in Philippines voice concerns like you, I am sure Ma will quickly back down on the sanctions.
> 
> Ma is the cleanest president Taiwan has ever had, but too naïve and not enough cunning -- typical Harvard grad.



Well he is trying to score big points with the locals voters but my countrymen has to pay the price for his political mileage



sdjd2013 said:


> fishing in disputed waters is a stealing? how about Taiwan arrests all fisherman who come close to the 20th parallel and call them thieves?



tell me sir do you know what 80 miles to the nears Philippine Province is?


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## Sasquatch

I have already deleted garbage posts and given infractions, refrain from trolling, insults, and no value posts and discuss it in a civil fashion otherwise I close it and bans will be given.


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## filipino_american

JSCh said:


> ROC is not a signatory to UNCLOS. She can claim whatever area and is not bound by UNCLOS, same as the US.



Yes Taiwan is NOT a signatory, but CHINA is.

Technically Taiwan is PART of CHINA, and that being said, whether you like it or not, TAIWAN has to follow UNCLOS because like what I've said, TAIWAN IS PART OF CHINA.

Also, TAIWAN has acknowledged the boundaries of the Philippines (they even signed it) during the reign of President Corazon Aquino of the Philippines. They even SOUGHT permission to cross the Philippine Waters of BATANES Islands.

Also, the International Community recognizes the islands of Batanes and the waters surrounding them as part of the Philippines.

Given that:
1. China and the Philippines signed and ratified UNCLOS

2. Taiwan recognized the Boundary of the Philippines in the North (Modern Boundary) by signing the NOTICE in the 1980s. And

3. The International Community recognizes the islands and Waters PART of the PHILIPPINES and not TAIWAN as evidenced by MAPS and ATLASES published by each country.

UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, TAIWAN has NO RIGHT to INTRUDE any territory of the Philippines.

The Philippines has MAINTAINED effective jurisdiction WITHOUT any OBJECTION ever since the country became independent.

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## Zero_wing

filipino_american said:


> Yes Taiwan is NOT a signatory, but CHINA is.
> 
> Technically Taiwan is PART of CHINA, and that being said, whether you like it or not, TAIWAN has to follow UNCLOS because like what I've said, TAIWAN IS PART OF CHINA.
> 
> Also, TAIWAN has acknowledged the boundaries of the Philippines (they even signed it) during the reign of President Corazon Aquino of the Philippines. They even SOUGHT permission to cross the Philippine Waters of BATANES Islands.
> 
> Also, the International Community recognizes the islands of Batanes and the waters surrounding them as part of the Philippines.
> 
> Given that:
> 1. China and the Philippines signed and ratified UNCLOS
> 
> 2. Taiwan recognized the Boundary of the Philippines in the North (Modern Boundary) by signing the NOTICE in the 1980s. And
> 
> 3. The International Community recognizes the islands and Waters PART of the PHILIPPINES and not TAIWAN as evidenced y MAPS and ATLASES published by each country.
> 
> UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, TAIWAN has NO RIGHT to INTRUDE any territory of the Philippines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]


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## p3avi8tor69

filipino_american said:


> Yes Taiwan is NOT a signatory, but CHINA is.
> 
> Technically Taiwan is PART of CHINA, and that being said, whether you like it or not, TAIWAN has to follow UNCLOS because like what I've said, TAIWAN IS PART OF CHINA.
> 
> Also, TAIWAN has acknowledged the boundaries of the Philippines (they even signed it) during the reign of President Corazon Aquino of the Philippines. They even SOUGHT permission to cross the Philippine Waters of BATANES Islands.
> 
> Also, the International Community recognizes the islands of Batanes and the waters surrounding them as part of the Philippines.
> 
> Given that:
> 1. China and the Philippines signed and ratified UNCLOS
> 
> 2. Taiwan recognized the Boundary of the Philippines in the North (Modern Boundary) by signing the NOTICE in the 1980s. And
> 
> 3. The International Community recognizes the islands and Waters PART of the PHILIPPINES and not TAIWAN as evidenced y MAPS and ATLASES published by each country.
> 
> UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, TAIWAN has NO RIGHT to INTRUDE any territory of the Philippines.



Well isn't it when the Philippines under the Marcos administration signed the UNCLOS, the Philippines specifically excluded the disputed areas in the South China Sea's because Marcos intended to negotiate those areas separately? 

Official maps of the republic of the Philippines also did not include said disputed areas. Philippine public awareness only increased during the past decade or so, isn't it? Prior to that most Filipinos did not know nor cared for those disputed areas.


----------



## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Well isn't it when the Philippines under the Marcos administration signed the UNCLOS, the Philippines specifically excluded the disputed areas in the South China Sea's because Marcos intended to negotiate those areas separately?
> 
> Official maps of the republic of the Philippines also did not include said disputed areas. Philippine public awareness only increased during the past decade or so, isn't it? Prior to that most Filipinos did not know nor cared for those disputed areas.



Really akbayan would say it differently admiral general


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*PHL envoy experiences unfriendly service in Taiwan hotels*
May 16, 2013 8:52pm

Amadeo Perez, the head of the Philippine body that handles relations with Taiwan, has experienced cold treatment there amid the tension resulting from the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by Philippine authorities in waters disputed by both sides.

&#8220;Noong una, &#8216;yung hotel nagpa-reserve kami, meron daw. Pagdating doon ayaw na kaming tanggapin at wala raw bakanteng kuwarto,&#8221; Perez, chairman of the Manila Economic and Cultural Office, told reporters during his arrival at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA) Thursday.

PHL envoy experiences unfriendly service in Taiwan hotels | Pinoy Abroad | GMA News Online

Even our Philippine envoy experienced racial discrimination in Taiwan.


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> He is not a spokesman, but they represent THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES, and this article was written by a major U.S. media . verify it for yourself, you ignorant person, you.... oh headaches...
> 
> p.s., you will notice the authors are all Filipinos
> 
> so don't tell me I am deceptive (the proper term)
> 
> law makers do not represent the U.S.? who do they represent? the Philippines?



Hahahaha so the US only urged the Philippines to "APOLOGIZE" after they have apologized already? lol lol lol 

It took the US so many days to say that, they tried NOT to condemn the PH until the PH said SORRY.

How Ironic right?

lol


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> yeah, I guess you guys sleep on the real issues , but vibrant on personal attacks
> 
> how do you expect the world community to respect Filipinos?
> 
> you keep making irrelevant statements disguised under the topic, no wonder you only got 5 thanks out of 42 posts, smart guy
> 
> let me rephrase the only important question in this thread:
> 
> 1) Was it self-defense?



lol first of all are YOU FAMILIAR with WU MAOS?

China hires INTERNET COMMENTATOR (well you could be one of them who knows) to THANK or LIKE pro CHINESE statement....oh well the WORLD already knows about WU MAOS so go ahead brag the thanks you get from your so called INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY POSTERS hahahaa!

Self Defense?

What if I throw you back your question

let me rephrase the only important question in this thread:

1) What if it was self-defense?


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> from all the comments made by the Philippine nationals in the forums I have attended within the last three days have proven to me, without a doubt, that most, if not all, Filipinos are incapable of reason and logic, and therefore it is useless to argue or reason with them. Either that, or the smart ones don't have time to show up in forums. I am still hopeful the leaders of the Philippines have the wisdom to see the big picture and all the mechanics at work here. Short of that, I say **** the Philippines and Ma should just stake out the unilateral EEZ demarcation with military force. Peace out.



Hahaha he thinks that he is so SMART when he can't even answer the QUESTION:

What the heck was the TAIWANESE fishing vessel doing in the Philippine TERRITORIAL WATERS in the first place??? ANY GOOD EXCUSE???

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## filipino_american

KirovAirship said:


> Scottish are very different from English, but they are both people of Britian.
> Ryukyu people are very different from "mainland Japaese", they are both Japanese and Ryukyu is part of Japan with no doubt.
> Even you are killing your so-called brothers from the south, both of you people are all Pinoys.
> I am a Macau and Hong Kong citizen, I am fine to be labeled as Chinese and people from China. What are you then, the Emperor of Macau and Hong Kong? You a outsider dare to judge and point around who is 'true' or not? You are the one who is acting extremely arrogant and doesn't make a sense of logic in your brain.



That's not what my HONG KONGER friend told me 

#REALITY 



sdjd2013 said:


> excuse me, it was an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman who was chased down and killed by Filipino soldiers?!!?? who is the bully?? You guys are un ******* believable.



Yes the FISHERMAN was UNARMED, BUT was "VIOLENT"


GOSH COMMON SENSE PLEASE!


----------



## p3avi8tor69

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *PHL envoy experiences unfriendly service in Taiwan hotels*
> May 16, 2013 8:52pm
> 
> Amadeo Perez, the head of the Philippine body that handles relations with Taiwan, has experienced cold treatment there amid the tension resulting from the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by Philippine authorities in waters disputed by both sides.
> 
> Noong una, yung hotel nagpa-reserve kami, meron daw. Pagdating doon ayaw na kaming tanggapin at wala raw bakanteng kuwarto, Perez, chairman of the Manila Economic and Cultural Office, told reporters during his arrival at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA) Thursday.
> 
> PHL envoy experiences unfriendly service in Taiwan hotels | Pinoy Abroad | GMA News Online
> 
> Even our Philippine envoy experienced racial discrimination in Taiwan.



If that is true and not another lie, then shame on the Taiwanese for breaking protocol. Even the Soviets did not stoop that low.


----------



## Snomannen

filipino_american said:


> That's not what my HONG KONGER friend told me
> 
> #REALITY



I posted this picture in this forum half year ago, 
I suppose it is enough reality to you.


----------



## filipino_american

canadian icehole said:


> Taipei-Manila Row: Incident does not surprise a veteran captain once detained in Philippines[/URL]
> 
> Watching TV news reports about the ongoing diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines, veteran seafarer Chang Chang-lung (&#24373;&#26124;&#38534 said he was not at all surprised.
> 
> &#8220;The trouble is due to the problem of overlapping maritime jurisdictions. If the issue is not resolved, tragedies such as this will occur again,&#8221; said Chang, a seasoned sea captain from Pingtung&#8217;s Hengchun Peninsula, who has had three perilous encounters with Philippine marine authorities.
> 
> The 58-year-old Chang has been a fisherman since his youth.
> 
> He recalled his first encounter with a Philippine vessel in 1991, when his ship sailed to about 20 degrees north latitude, a marine area Pingtung sailors call Toudiapsuan (&#38518;&#30090;&#23665 in Hoklo (commonly known as Taiwanese).
> 
> Chang said a Philippine naval vessel started approaching his ship at high speed, and he turned his ship around to get away.
> 
> &#8220;However, our boat was too slow. *The Philippine vessel then started shooting at us with machine guns*. All of us hid inside the boat&#8217;s cabin,&#8221; Chang said. &#8220;When we got back home, we counted more than *30 bullet holes* in the boat.&#8221;
> 
> After that, Chang said he spent more than NT$3 million (US$100,370) to purchase a new fishing boat with a bigger engine.
> 
> &#8220;However, in 1997, in the same stretch of water, we were chased by Philippine naval ships and pursued by a military helicopter. Luckily we managed to escape without much damage [to the boat],&#8221; the captain said.
> 
> A third encounter came in 2001, which he described as a terrible nightmare for him and his crew.
> 
> Chang said they had just started to fish early in the morning and did not notice armed men approaching their boat in sampans. The men came aboard to search the boat.
> 
> &#8220;They had guns, so we could not put up a fight,&#8221; Chang said.
> 
> &#8220;*They had a dynamite stick with them and planted it in our cabin as false evidence. We were accused of fishing illegally using dynamite, even though we have not caught anything yet*,&#8221; Chang said.
> 
> His ship and crew were detained and taken to the port of Aparri, at the northern tip of Luzon Island.
> 
> Chang said they were put under house arrest for six months and the Philippine authorities demanded US$100,000 for their release.
> 
> They were only released to board a flight &#8220;to escape back to Taiwan&#8221; after paying NT$600,000 (US$19,960) in bribes to Philippine officials, through the assistance of well-connected Chinese Filipinos, Chang said.
> 
> &#8220;Along with my confiscated ship and the money spent on bribes during our six months in detention, this &#8216;accidental journey&#8217; cost me about NT$5 million,&#8221; he added.
> 
> After hearing of his experience, the fishermen of Hengchun Peninsula were scared and nobody dared go into that stretch of water again, he said.
> 
> &#8220;Since then, only fishermen from Donggang [&#26481;&#28207;, another Pingtung port to the northwest of Hengchun] would go there, but they are gambling with their lives,&#8221; Chang said.
> 
> &#8220;The Philippine navy always gives us trouble. They have about 17 islands in that stretch of marine territory and they have five different naval units stationed around there,&#8221; he said.
> 
> &#8220;Even with a signed agreement on fishing around one of the islands, Philippine naval units from the other islands would still give us trouble. Filipino fishermen would report Taiwanese fishing boats&#8217; position to their naval units. It was impossible to safeguard ourselves over there,&#8221; Chang added.
> 
> He also denounced the *behavior of Filipino seamen*, which he *described as &#8220;atrocious.&#8221;*
> 
> *"When these navy sailors and officers came aboard our boat, they would loot almost everything we had, from raincoats and videotapes to food, tissues and other materials," Chang said.
> 
> "If we were lucky, we were allowed to leave and go home, otherwise they would plant evidence against us and confiscate our boat. They would strip the boat&#8217;s engine and all the usable instruments. Then they would demand that we pay a heavy fine," he added.*
> 
> Chang recalled elderly fishermen advising them to keep about NT$500,000 in cash on board, so if their boat was detained by Philippine seamen, giving them the cash usually could ensure the crew&#8217;s safety and the boat&#8217;s release.
> 
> "However, the overlapping economic exclusion zones of Taiwan and the Philippines are troublesome. If our own government does not take strong action to resolve the matter, Taiwanese fishermen may have to give up this large fishing area. Or else, the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 27 incident will not be the last," Chang said.



No wonder...

The Bureau of Fishing and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) on Friday said Taiwanese make up the majority of the poachers caught over the years in the Batanes group of islands, where a Taiwanese fisherman was recently killed in an encounter with Philippine authorities.

About two to three Taiwanese are caught poaching each year in the Batanes group of islands, northern Philippines

Now you just verified that

1. Taiwanese people DO NOT FOLLOW INTERNATIONAL LAW

2. Taiwanese Government DO NOT EDUCATE her people where to FISH LEGALLY

3. Taiwanese people has a LONG HISTORY of violating and NOT respecting other NATION'S SOVEREIGNTY

AND YET THEY BLAME THE PHILIPPINES FOR EVERYTHING


ENOUGH SAID

Reactions: Like Like:
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## filipino_american

canadian icehole said:


> Taipei-Manila Row: Incident does not surprise a veteran captain once detained in Philippines[/URL]
> 
> Watching TV news reports about the ongoing diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines, veteran seafarer Chang Chang-lung (&#24373;&#26124;&#38534 said he was not at all surprised.
> 
> &#8220;The trouble is due to the problem of overlapping maritime jurisdictions. If the issue is not resolved, tragedies such as this will occur again,&#8221; said Chang, a seasoned sea captain from Pingtung&#8217;s Hengchun Peninsula, who has had three perilous encounters with Philippine marine authorities.
> 
> The 58-year-old Chang has been a fisherman since his youth.
> 
> He recalled his first encounter with a Philippine vessel in 1991, when his ship sailed to about 20 degrees north latitude, a marine area Pingtung sailors call Toudiapsuan (&#38518;&#30090;&#23665 in Hoklo (commonly known as Taiwanese).
> 
> Chang said a Philippine naval vessel started approaching his ship at high speed, and he turned his ship around to get away.
> 
> &#8220;However, our boat was too slow. *The Philippine vessel then started shooting at us with machine guns*. All of us hid inside the boat&#8217;s cabin,&#8221; Chang said. &#8220;When we got back home, we counted more than *30 bullet holes* in the boat.&#8221;
> 
> After that, Chang said he spent more than NT$3 million (US$100,370) to purchase a new fishing boat with a bigger engine.
> 
> &#8220;However, in 1997, in the same stretch of water, we were chased by Philippine naval ships and pursued by a military helicopter. Luckily we managed to escape without much damage [to the boat],&#8221; the captain said.
> 
> A third encounter came in 2001, which he described as a terrible nightmare for him and his crew.
> 
> Chang said they had just started to fish early in the morning and did not notice armed men approaching their boat in sampans. The men came aboard to search the boat.
> 
> &#8220;They had guns, so we could not put up a fight,&#8221; Chang said.
> 
> &#8220;*They had a dynamite stick with them and planted it in our cabin as false evidence. We were accused of fishing illegally using dynamite, even though we have not caught anything yet*,&#8221; Chang said.
> 
> His ship and crew were detained and taken to the port of Aparri, at the northern tip of Luzon Island.
> 
> Chang said they were put under house arrest for six months and the Philippine authorities demanded US$100,000 for their release.
> 
> They were only released to board a flight &#8220;to escape back to Taiwan&#8221; after paying NT$600,000 (US$19,960) in bribes to Philippine officials, through the assistance of well-connected Chinese Filipinos, Chang said.
> 
> &#8220;Along with my confiscated ship and the money spent on bribes during our six months in detention, this &#8216;accidental journey&#8217; cost me about NT$5 million,&#8221; he added.
> 
> After hearing of his experience, the fishermen of Hengchun Peninsula were scared and nobody dared go into that stretch of water again, he said.
> 
> &#8220;Since then, only fishermen from Donggang [&#26481;&#28207;, another Pingtung port to the northwest of Hengchun] would go there, but they are gambling with their lives,&#8221; Chang said.
> 
> &#8220;The Philippine navy always gives us trouble. They have about 17 islands in that stretch of marine territory and they have five different naval units stationed around there,&#8221; he said.
> 
> &#8220;Even with a signed agreement on fishing around one of the islands, Philippine naval units from the other islands would still give us trouble. Filipino fishermen would report Taiwanese fishing boats&#8217; position to their naval units. It was impossible to safeguard ourselves over there,&#8221; Chang added.
> 
> He also denounced the *behavior of Filipino seamen*, which he *described as &#8220;atrocious.&#8221;*
> 
> *"When these navy sailors and officers came aboard our boat, they would loot almost everything we had, from raincoats and videotapes to food, tissues and other materials," Chang said.
> 
> "If we were lucky, we were allowed to leave and go home, otherwise they would plant evidence against us and confiscate our boat. They would strip the boat&#8217;s engine and all the usable instruments. Then they would demand that we pay a heavy fine," he added.*
> 
> Chang recalled elderly fishermen advising them to keep about NT$500,000 in cash on board, so if their boat was detained by Philippine seamen, giving them the cash usually could ensure the crew&#8217;s safety and the boat&#8217;s release.
> 
> "However, the overlapping economic exclusion zones of Taiwan and the Philippines are troublesome. If our own government does not take strong action to resolve the matter, Taiwanese fishermen may have to give up this large fishing area. Or else, the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 27 incident will not be the last," Chang said.



The INTERVIEWEE also SHOULD HAVE ASKED MR. CHANG:

What the heck were you doing in the Philippine WATERS in the first place??? ANY GOOD EXCUSE??? Didn't you know what you did was illegal under International Law?





sdjd2013 said:


> I'd agree. That is one mistake Ma has made, keep demanding for an apology, when the real issues are determining if the shooting was warranted and compensation.
> 
> I hardly think the moment happened like a movie scene. If I had to use a movie to describe it, I would probably say the "Killing Field" to describe what had happened - 42 out of 52 shots aimed at the Captains cabin, while he was running away, not presenting any danger to anyone. Even assuming , for the sake of argument, that he ignored the blare horn and continue to fish, and then try to back up the ship and try to ram the 80ton steel ship with his 30 ton fiberglass boat on high seas, risking killing his son and son in law, in order to run away from the PCG boat, the coastguard said they backed up, and then went forward (as though they peeled rubber) almost hitting the coastguard ship, and but for the coastguard's quick reverse, the fishing boat 1/3 the size would have collided with the coastguard. B/c the fishing boat resisted the warning to stop, they ordered the shooting..
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 1) how fast was the fishing boat going when it shifted from reverse to forward that almost collided with the coastguard? such that the coastguard had enough time to reverse the gear to avoid collision? remember, this all happened on water, not land.
> 2) If a collision was avoided, how was the coastguard in danger when it gave chase? it was the one chasing, not being chased, and there was no other information provided that would indicate a danger to the coastguard. Are you saying they were going so fast on water that the boat could have flipped over? that's absurd.
> 3) If the coastguard intended to shoot the engine, why did 42 of the 52 bullets landed in the captain's cabin? and then, they claim "accidental" killing. How can it be accidental when you aimed most of your shots at the captain?
> 
> RUBBISH, LIES,
> 
> Now Aguino is telling the world press that Ma is jealous of Aguino for having such high ratings in his own country, unlike Ma, and say the sanctions are a way to bully the smaller country. He has turned this serious matter into a circus sideshow between him and Ma.
> 
> WOW, WHO IS BEING DECEPTIVE?
> 
> by the way, where is the video to prove the PCG story to NBI? I don't think they will produce that for a while, and when they do, its probably heavily edited, and the one minutia part that supports the story will appear blurry and questionable, leaving all viewers in a quandary.



Before I answer your QUESTIONS

What the heck was the TAIWANESE fishing vessel doing in the Philippine TERRITORIAL WATERS in the first place??? ANY GOOD EXCUSE???

Let's start probing from the ROOT


----------



## filipino_american

Khitan21 said:


> The Filipinos are definitely in the wrong here, why? because the victim here was just one old fishermen whose nationalistic view probably clouded his sense of safety, but this gives no right for the the Philippines to open fire continuously and subsequently KILL the old man. I can't believe how incompetent and irresponsible these Filipino coast guards are.
> 
> Even with the island disputes with Japan , the Japanese never killed anyone; they just shoot water or arrest people, like what the Philippines should of done...but no, it is clear this country is a warmongering nation that wants to drag the US into supporting the Philippines blood lust. But too bad for the Philippines, The US will be neutral when conflict does ensue.
> 
> Here is a 2 min video of facts on what happened there:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j5JzRUQZdwo
> 
> sorry if its been posted already, I can't be stuffed reading 40+ pages of cap locks and seizure red texts.
> 
> Also, the picture posted by that whiny mushroom tip licking Zero Wing; red neck hill billies put signs similar to that on their property which is fitting considering the Philippines is also a country filled with red necks.



First of ALL to begin with

What the heck was the TAIWANESE fishing vessel doing in the Philippine TERRITORIAL WATERS in the first place??? ANY GOOD EXCUSE???





sdjd2013 said:


> Because of you, I remain hopeful this conflict will resolve amicably.
> 
> if half of the people in Philippines voice concerns like you, I am sure Ma will quickly back down on the sanctions.
> 
> Ma is the cleanest president Taiwan has ever had, but too naïve and not enough cunning -- typical Harvard grad.



Don't be deceived by WU MAOS. 

also EDUCATION is nothing if your ACTIONS are very UNEDUCATED.


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> fishing in disputed waters is a stealing? how about Taiwan arrests all fisherman who come close to the 20th parallel and call them thieves?



DISPUTED WATERS? go get your EYES CHECKED please.

Now you are bragging the 20th parallel line.....

FYI all COUNTRIES (maybe except CHINA) recognize the Islands as part of the Philippines. The ISLANDS were NEVER PART ON CHINA or TAIWAN. Under International LAW especially the LAW of EFFECTIVITIES (EFFECTIVE JURISDICTION), Taiwan HAS NO CHANCE AT ALL.



sdjd2013 said:


> WTF are you talking about, half the time you don't even make sense. Take a chill pill and get with the program man.
> 
> 
> 
> would any Filipino care to respond to this msg? Or are you going to say he is an imposter?



I could just create an account and NAME IT TAIWANESE. you know.

Plus look at the posters PROFILE, NAME, and # of posts. VERY WU MAO-LISTIC.

hahahaha!



faithfulguy said:


> Its time for Taiwan to institute put a no access zone around Luzon. And blockade Manila. Any ship that tries to run the blockade will be sunk. Until the compensation is paid in full. The compensation should be around $30 million.



Hahaha YOU CANT EVEN ARREST a single FILIPINO in the Area lol, and ALSO your SHIPS are too WORRIED of CHINA. Trust me, your DREAM will NEVER EVER COME TO REALITY


----------



## grandmaster

good job, Taiwan! 'do' is better than 'talk' and 'write'


----------



## filipino_american

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Well isn't it when the Philippines under the Marcos administration signed the UNCLOS, the Philippines specifically excluded the disputed areas in the South China Sea's because Marcos intended to negotiate those areas separately?
> 
> Official maps of the republic of the Philippines also did not include said disputed areas. Philippine public awareness only increased during the past decade or so, isn't it? Prior to that most Filipinos did not know nor cared for those disputed areas.



I WAS NOT talking about the SOUTH CHINA SEA. I specifically mentioned NORTHERN AREA (TAIWAN-PHIL borders).

Please re read my posts. thanks



KirovAirship said:


> I posted this picture in this forum half year ago,
> I suppose it is enough reality to you.



First of all, the texts on the pictures you posted are UN READABLE. Also, I seriously dont get your point.


----------



## filipino_american

grandmaster said:


> good job, Taiwan! 'do' is better than 'talk' and 'write'



Taiwan might gotten our APOLOGY BUT not our SINCERITY. 

If you go to FILIPINO webites, News, blogs and the likes.

You will find out that

99.9% of Filipinos

don't think

Taiwan deserved an apology

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Snomannen

filipino_american said:


> First of all, the texts on the pictures you posted are UN READABLE. Also, I seriously dont get your point.



[Oh Hi 
Kirov-Airship]
How is that possibly unreadable. 

How is it even difficult for you to get. 
Reread your posts, take a look at my identity cards and see who you are talking to.


----------



## filipino_american

Ok, let me tell you this.....

The real True Winner if the PH-TAIWAN Spat continues is CHINA.

China has been waiting for this to happen. 

The trap of COMMUNIST CHINA is HERE

The Philippines and Taiwan HAD a VERY STRONG AND GOOD RELATION before the incident.

The Philippines SUPPORTED the REPUBLIC of CHINA during the CHINESE civil war.

Taiwan and the Philippines are BOTH U.S. Allies.

The TAIWANESE President and MEDIA hyped up the INCIDENT. I don't know if the TW President needed his ratings UP or something.

Taiwan has SPATS with her neighbors.

Japan in the NORTH

CHINA in the WEST

now

Philippines in the SOUTH.

To make it more complicated, NOT many COUNTRIES recognize TAIWAN or would dare to SUPPORT IT by any means.

If TW continues to DAMAGE its VITAL relationship with its DEMOCRATIC ALLIES due to OVER REACTING and PRIDE,

don't be surprised one day, if you don't see any JAPANESE or FILIPINO TEARS the day CHINA invades you.

You are putting SANCTIONS against the Philippines and wanting to break TIES.

The day CHINA invades you, the ISLANDS of the Philippines will be useful as FUEL Stations for U.S. WAR PLANES and WAR SHIPS. The Philippines is a key MILITARY STRATEGIC support to TW.

Also, US and PHILIPPINE troops train on a REGULAR BASIS.  Filipino soldiers are TRAINED to operate AMERICAN WAR EQUIPMENTS including jet fighters as the US AND PHIL have MUTUAL DEFENSE treaty (U attack one, u attack both; one goes into war, the other one automatically goes into war also) Filipinos dont need really HEAVILY armed equipments to help the US win a war. US has a lot already, but the MANPOWER of Filipino soldiers especially the AMERICAN trained once will give them a big boost when the US goes to war with ANY COUNTRY not specifically in defense of the Philippines (e.g Iraq, Korea, Vietnam invasion)

And who knows,maybe one day, the Philippines will get its MILITARY HAY DAY STATUS. As the Philippines is CURRENTLY the 5th RAPIDLY DEVELOPING COUNTRY in the WORLD not just in ASIA- the modernization of its armed forces is ongoing. I am not bragging but I have DATA to support this. Before the Philippine MARSHAL LAW was imposed during the MARCOS DICTATORSHIP ERA (1970s), the WHOLE ASIA knew that the PHILIPPINES was the 2nd wealthiest and the 2nd MOST MILITARY equipped NATION after JAPAN as we had more than 200 jet fighters and bombers back then. During the 50's and 60's, SINGAPORE, SOUTH KOREA were NOTHING compared to the economy of the Philippines and in fact MANY KOREAN economics teachers teach about this......but i am not going into more details....the bottom line is, KNOW WHO IS YOUR REAL FRIEND when CRISIS COMES.

Now that CHINA has finally seen an OPPORTUNITY, I SEE CHINA'S Invasion of TAIWAN NEARING.

Think now and don't over react before its too late.

again.....

Phil-Taiwan Spat: The real WINNER IS COMMUNIST CHINA

Reactions: Like Like:
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## filipino_american

KirovAirship said:


> [Oh Hi
> Kirov-Airship]
> How is that possibly unreadable.
> 
> How is it even difficult for you to get.
> Reread your posts, take a look at my identity cards and see who you are talking to.




You dont have to post your identity cards. Reading HK blogs and sentiments are good enough.

Also, reread what I said first about HK and CHINA before you waste your time posting irrelevant stuff.


----------



## Malaya

sdjd2013 said:


> I'd agree. That is one mistake Ma has made, keep demanding for an apology, when the real issues are determining if the shooting was warranted and compensation.


Yes and he is acting very irrational and lack of prudence. Instead of cooling down the tensions, he keeps ratcheting it up. President Ma is barking to restore confidence from his people, at the expense of the Philippines. It would have been proper if Mr. Ma lets the investigation take its course and do it in a civilized manner. 



> *74 % of Taiwanese dissatisfied with President Ma: Poll
> Ma Ying-jeou marks 5th anniversary in office on May 20*
> Taiwan News, Staff Writer
> 2013-05-17 03:57 PM
> 
> TAIPEI (Taiwan News) &#8211; About three quarters of the public were dissatisfied with President Ma Ying-jeou as his fifth anniversary in power approached, the opposition Democratic Progressive Party said Friday.
> 
> Ma was first sworn in as president on May 20, 2008, while his second and final term started on the same day last year.
> 
> Only 18.7 percent were satisfied with his rule, 74.8 percent disapproved of him, while 49.6 percent predicted his performance would only deteriorate during the three years he still had left, the DPP said. Only 25.1 percent were optimistic that the final years of Ma&#8217;s rule would show improvements.
> 
> Opposition spokesman Lin Chun-hsien said that 45.1 percent of respondents said they were &#8216;very dissatisfied&#8217; with Ma, 29.7 percent were &#8216;somewhat dissatisfied,&#8217; 15.4 percent were &#8216;somewhat satisfied&#8217; and 3.3 percent were &#8216;very satisfied.&#8217;
> 
> When different aspects of government were taken into consideration, Ma received a negative rating in every single one of them, but it was the highest for his management of the economy, with 78.1 percent giving him bad marks, Lin said.
> 
> Ma received a negative rating for his handling of the nation&#8217;s finances from 76.4 percent of respondents and for his campaign against corruption from 76.2 percent, the DPP poll showed.
> 
> The president was named as the worst politician of the ruling Kuomintang by 37.3 percent of poll respondents, with 17.4 percent naming KMT lawmakers in general.
> 
> The DPP said the poll was conducted May 14-15, when Ma&#8217;s government announced sanctions against the Philippines over the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman.
> 
> Earlier in the week, Ma received only 46.5 points out of a possible 100 in the Taiwan Mood Barometer Survey conducted by Taiwan Indicators Survey Research.
> 
> A report in the China Times Weekly magazine said that KMT Honorary Chairman Lien Chan and his supporters were maneuvering to have New Taipei City Mayor Eric Liluan Chu replace Ma as party chairman in elections scheduled for July.
> 
> Chu spent at least one hour meeting with representatives of KMT youth groups with close links to Lien&#8217;s son Sean Lien at his government office on May 8, the magazine reported.
> 
> The mayor, who has frequently been named as a potential KMT presidential candidate for 2016, said he would respect Ma&#8217;s leadership of the party but nevertheless complained about his performance, the magazine reported.
> 
> KMT politicians reportedly fear that Ma&#8217;s low ratings will drag them down in local and regional elections scheduled for late next year.
> 
> 74 % of Taiwanese dissatisfied with President Ma: Poll - Taiwan News Online


Anyway 74% of Taiwanese are dissatisfied with President, Ma. He's got to do everything and anything to gain favors from the public by sensationalizing this incident.



> I hardly think the moment happened like a movie scene. If I had to use a movie to describe it, I would probably say the "Killing Field" to describe what had happened - 42 out of 52 shots aimed at the Captains cabin, while he was running away, not presenting any danger to anyone. Even assuming , for the sake of argument, that he ignored the blare horn and continue to fish, and then try to back up the ship and try to ram the 80ton steel ship with his 30 ton fiberglass boat on high seas, risking killing his son and son in law, in order to run away from the PCG boat, the coastguard said they backed up, and then went forward (as though they peeled rubber) almost hitting the coastguard ship, and but for the coastguard's quick reverse, the fishing boat 1/3 the size would have collided with the coastguard. B/c the fishing boat resisted the warning to stop, they ordered the shooting..
> Questions:
> 1) how fast was the fishing boat going when it shifted from reverse to forward that almost collided with the coastguard? such that the coastguard had enough time to reverse the gear to avoid collision? remember, this all happened on water, not land.
> 2) If a collision was avoided, how was the coastguard in danger when it gave chase? it was the one chasing, not being chased, and there was no other information provided that would indicate a danger to the coastguard. Are you saying they were going so fast on water that the boat could have flipped over? that's absurd.
> 3) If the coastguard intended to shoot the engine, why did 42 of the 52 bullets landed in the captain's cabin? and then, they claim "accidental" killing. How can it be accidental when you aimed most of your shots at the captain?


Poaching is one issue, ramming your boat with the intent to harm or evade apprehension is another. The bullet was not intended for the fisherman, it was intended for the motor of their boat. The fisherman was accidentally hit. If it was intentional then none of those fishermen will survive. The bullet holes are located at the front, side and at the back of the boat. Not on the deck where the passengers are located. Has anyone really seen how much a 30caliber machine gun can do? 52 shot holes. 

IF the coast guards wanted to kill the fisher man intentionally I would say that at least 60% of those bullets would have hit that fisherman and yet it's located at the front of the boat indicating that the fisherman's boat was FACING THE COASTGUARDS boat in RAMMING position. 



> RUBBISH, LIES,
> Now Aguino is telling the world press that Ma is jealous of Aguino for having such high ratings in his own country, unlike Ma, and say the sanctions are a way to bully the smaller country. He has turned this serious matter into a circus sideshow between him and Ma.
> WOW, WHO IS BEING DECEPTIVE?
> by the way, where is the video to prove the PCG story to NBI? I don't think they will produce that for a while, and when they do, its probably heavily edited, and the one minutia part that supports the story will appear blurry and questionable, leaving all viewers in a quandary.


President Ma has demanded an apology, compensation, fishing rights, etc within the deadline it imposed regardless of the result of investigation. His reaction to the situation is strange and irrational because such demands are normally raised after the result of investigations. The Philippines already have done enough in taking steps to apologize (disregarding the fact that National Territory was crossed). Taiwan should re-calibrate their way of thinking and approach on the issue as their temper-driven actions might lead to far greater and long-term consequences. 

If Taiwan continues this hot-headed attitude towards the issue instead of settling it with diplomacy, then it should better prepare itself to how the international community will respond to the actions it is taking - a response that might affect the 'Taiwan dream' of state recognition.

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## Snomannen

filipino_american said:


> You dont have to post your identity cards. Reading HK blogs and sentiments are good enough.
> 
> Also, reread what I said first about HK and CHINA before you waste your time posting irrelevant stuff.



Indeed I don't, but since you mention 'reality', therefore I gave you 'reality'. How is that even irrelevant 
Reading blogs and sentiments right? There are huge amount of racists cursing around and enjoy causing conflicts in the internet such as in 4chan, 'reality' you say.
There are independence movement in Ryukyu, unlike HK, their action is even official. Should I as a foreigner represent all the people of Ryukyu, jump to Ryukyu and clam that Ryukyu is not Japan. 
I/normal People would never come to a Ryukyu people and rudely tell him if he is a real people of Ryukyu or not , therefore I suppose you have to stop acting like an emperor of Macau&HK, being rude and tell us HK & Macau citizens what is "true" and what is not "real"


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## Malaya

Filipino said:


> Why would an unarmed boat attempt to ram a ship with eight times its volume (remember, half length also means half beam and half draft -- not to mention one is fiberglass and the other one is metal). That doesn't make sense. Why are the other Filipinos taking that at face value? Why would anyone believe a crazy story like that? Do you realize how stupid you're making us look to other nationalities? Have you never been bullied by a PNP cop before who lied about what he was doing to get away with it?
> *Do you not realize that fishing in someone else's waters doesn't justify killing them?* Are you serious that 52 bullets isn't a lot (remember, shooting at moving targets in the wavy seas is hard, if there are 52 holes there are hundreds that missed). Are you sure that chasing the small boat for hours and shooting it the whole time means we showed restraint instead of making us look like crazy murderers? Do you realize that claiming self defense only works if the other party was capable of killing us or causing damage?
> Or are you just blindly defending and posturing because one side has the Filipino flag on it.
> This is a really bad year to be a Filipino on the internet. First it was that stupid business in Sabah and then now this


Hmm mrunong k mgsalita wikng Pinoy or kht ano? 

An act of ramming could turn your unarmed vessel into a weapon and it also a threat to our coast guard. 

When their fishing vessel tried to ram our coast guard ship, it's already a sign of no respect to the authorities. The intention really was to disable the fishing vessel. Unfortunately, the fisherman got hit and died. The Philippines has already apologized and they don&#8217;t want to accept it. So it&#8217;s their problem






The Taiwanese vessel was in the Balintang Channel well inside the Philippine territorial waters. An apology was sent for the death caused by the incident and an investigation is underway.






Taiwan Government is really escalating the situation on purpose. Their people is also becoming violent against Filipinos in Taiwan. 
















Well calm and considered action is needed. No need to add fuel to the fire. We want peace. We don't demean any human life. We respect all human lives.That is why our government apologized. It is a formal public apology.

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## Malaya

*PCG men say they acted in self-defense*
By Nancy C. Carvajal
Philippine Daily Inquirer
Saturday, May 18th, 2013

MANILA, Philippines&#8212;It was self-defense.

That&#8217;s how Philippine Coast Guard officers aboard a Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) vessel described their action during an encounter with a Taiwanese fishing boat off Balintang Island in northern Philippines last week.

The coast guards submitted their report on the encounter to their commander, Rear Adm. Rodolfo Isorena, a copy of which has been submitted to the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI), which President Benigno Aquino III has ordered to look into the circumstances of the May 9 incident that led to the shooting death of Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-cheng and to new tensions between Taiwan and the Philippines.

A source who has knowledge of the investigation told the Inquirer yesterday that the coast guards and two BFAR employees aboard the surveillance vessel MCS-3001 admitted firing on the Taiwanese fishing boat Guang Ta Hsin 28, but only in &#8220;self-defense.&#8221;

&#8220;The fishing boat with passengers speaking a foreign language approached at full speed and attempted to ram the Philippine vessel, but the bigger [BFAR] vessel was able to [maneuver and the fishing boat missed it by a meter],&#8221; the source said.
There had been warnings from the Coast Guard before that, the source said.

The coast guards heard on their radio an instruction in &#8220;a foreign language&#8221; then the fishing boat sped toward the MCS-3001.
*Warning shot*

Using their vessel&#8217;s public address system, the coast guards ordered the fishing boat to stop, the source said.

&#8220;But the fishing boat did not heed the order and continued to speed toward the Philippine vessel, forcing it to fire a warning shot,&#8221; the source said.

Then the near-miss, and a shirtless crew member of the fishing boat coming out on deck and making motions as if daring the coast guards to come after his boat, the source said.

The fishing boat sped off and the MCS-3001 went after it, firing at the boat&#8217;s engine to stop the vessel.

But the coast guards gave up the chase when they saw eight to 10 more fishing boats where the Guang Ta Hsin 28 was headed.
It is unclear whether the shirtless man who taunted the coast guards was Hung and how the fisherman was hit.

But the Taiwanese government is demanding, among other things, a formal apology from the Philippine government for Hung&#8217;s death, compensation for the fisherman&#8217;s family, and the arrest and punishment of the killers.

To pressure the Philippines, Taiwan froze the hiring of Filipino workers.

President Aquino sent a letter to the Taiwanese government on Wednesday, but Taipei rejected it for being &#8220;insincere&#8221; and suspended official and trade exchanges, economic cooperation projects, tourist travel to the Philippines, and staged naval exercises in waters near the Philippines to show its anger over the killing of Hung.

*Drill ignored*

Malacañang ignored the naval exercises, which it said on Friday were held outside Philippine territory.

&#8220;As long as the activity is within their borders, or in the high seas, then that should not be a concern for us,&#8221; deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte told reporters.

But she said the government was preparing for &#8220;contingencies&#8221; following Taiwan&#8217;s imposition of retaliatory measures on the Philippines.

Valte said the Department of Labor and Employment was looking at &#8220;alternative markets&#8221; for Filipino workers whose job applications had been frozen.

Valte said the Philippine government had &#8220;done enough&#8221; by apologizing for Hung&#8217;s death. But she said she did not know how Mr. Aquino took Taiwan&#8217;s rejection of his apology.

*Avoiding escalation*

Asked about China&#8217;s backing Taiwan in this controversy, Valte said the President had given instructions to &#8220;avoid escalation.&#8221;
Malacañang also ignored the arrival of Taiwanese investigators on Wednesday to join the Philippine investigation of the incident.
Valte quoted Justice Secretary Leila de Lima as saying that the Taiwanese investigators first have to make arrangements with the Manila Economic and Cultural Office in Taipei before coming to Manila.

De Lima yesterday said the Taiwanese investigators were free to investigate the killing of Hung, but how much access they would be allowed here depended on how much access NBI investigators would be given in Taiwan for their own investigation of the circumstances surrounding Hung&#8217;s death.

The NBI is sending a team to Taiwan to talk to the crew of the Guang Ta Hsin 28 and inspect the boat as part of the Philippine investigation.

*No joint probe*

&#8220;We shall see up to what extent the cooperation between the two investigative teams would be. But it&#8217;s not going to be a joint [probe],&#8221; De Lima said.

&#8220;We can allow them to inspect the Philippine Coast Guard-Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources vessel. But they should also allow us to inspect the Taiwanese fishing vessel, and, if possible, [the inspections should be] simultaneous,&#8221; she added.

NBI Director Nonnatus Rojas and Virgilio Mendez, the bureau&#8217;s deputy director for regional services and leader of the investigative team, presented at a news conference yesterday 15 high-powered firearms used by the coast guards during the encounter with the Taiwanese fishing boat.

The NBI officials, however, declined to go into specifics, just saying that the coast guards claimed &#8220;provocation.&#8221;

*Video of encounter*

Mendez confirmed that the NBI has a video of the encounter at sea, but the authenticity of the video had yet to be established.
&#8220;We want to interview the person who took that video first, and determine if it is really relevant to this investigation,&#8221; Mendez said. With reports from Michael Lim Ubac and Jerome Aning


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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Former envoy Lauro Baja tells Taiwan to 'remember who its friends are'*
Friday, 17 May, 2013, 4:49am

A former top Philippines diplomat has urged Taiwan to "remember who its friends are", in comments that appear to suggest *Taiwan is ungrateful for Manila's longstanding support for its political autonomy.*

"Taiwan should remember we were the first ones to have these informal relations with them and we have substantial relations with them in terms of trade," said Lauro Baja, the former Philippines ambassador to the United Nations.

Baja said he decided to speak out as a citizen because of what he perceived was Taiwan's "overreaction" to the death of one of its fishermen on May 9 when a Philippines coastguard vessel fired at a Taiwanese fishing boat that Manila said was inside Philippine territory.

*Baja said that, contrary to Taipei's claims that the incident occurred in disputed territory, Taiwan had long recognised the area as a part of Philippine waters.*

"If you recall, during the time of [President] Cory Aquino, there was some sort of corridor established for Taiwanese fishermen" to pass through that area, he said. But Baja, once foreign affairs undersecretary for policy, did not know the status of that agreement because "it came from Malacanang Palace and did not pass through the DFA [Department of Foreign Affairs]".

"With their entity being a province of China, giving sanctions and refusing to receive the representative of the president, what is that? Sometimes I feel we have these things coming to us because of our very timid diplomacy," Baja said.

*Rex Robles, a retired Philippine Navy commodore and security consultant, also pointed to the corridor agreement as proof that Taiwan recognises Philippine sovereignty over that area.
*
"I think everyone has forgotten about the safety corridor which Cory Aquino signed during her term. It allowed Taiwanese fishermen to pass through Philippine waters on their way to the Pacific Ocean," he said.

Robles said if Taiwan believed the area was theirs, in the first place, "why will they sign that MOU [Memorandum of Understanding]?"

Robles said he was "puzzled over the Taiwanese government's overreaction" and called for a thorough probe.

Outrage over Taiwan's Manila bashing and reported incidents of violence against Filipinos in Taipei spilled over yesterday to the social media.

Rafael Alunan, a businessman and former cabinet minister, wrote on Facebook: "China will take over Taiwan one of these days, and I will not shed a tear. Even without that formal takeover, they seem to be in bed together applying the same tactics against us and Japan in our respective territories."

International law expert Harry Roque noted that Taiwan has no legal leg to demand a fishing agreement with Manila because "Taiwan is not an independent state and should not expect to be treated as such".


Former envoy Lauro Baja tells Taiwan to 'remember who its friends are' | South China Morning Post

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## Malaya

*Filipinos no longer welcome in Taiwan restaurants, says Meco exec*
By Yolanda Sotelo
Inquirer Northern Luzon
Friday, May 17th, 2013

*DAGUPAN CITY &#8211; Filipinos have been refused service in restaurants and supermarkets, as tensions continue to rise over the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine Coast Guard in the Balintang Channel last week, said Amadito Perez Jr., chair of the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (Meco).*

Many such cases have occurred in the hometown of Hung Shih-cheng in Taiwan, he told the Philippine Daily Inquirer in a telephone interview from Taipei.

&#8220;We have received numerous reports of harassment, particularly from Kaoshiung City, where the slain fisherman resided. 

Emotions are running high there and you can feel the animosity toward the overseas Filipino workers,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Some restaurants refuse to serve food to Filipinos and some supermarkets won&#8217;t let Filipinos inside to buy groceries. They (Taiwanese) cast angry glances at Filipinos. I advised them to just buy from the markets and not to wander around, to stay at home if they have nothing important to do outside.&#8221;

The Meco is verifying these reports, including claims that some migrant workers were beaten up by Taiwanese residents, he said.
&#8220;The situation is tense. The Filipinos are afraid to lose their jobs. I advised them to stay calm and never to retaliate no matter the provocation,&#8221; Perez said.

*There are 90,000 Filipino workers in Taiwan, 10 percent of whom are domestic workers.*

Perez said he was informed of factories that have put out news releases threatening to terminate the contracts of Filipino workers because of the death of Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-cheng.

But the factories that issued the threats did not come from the electronic sector, which employs 25,000 Filipinos, he said.
*
&#8220;We have good workers in the electronic sector. The Taiwanese cannot just fire them or their electronics sector would be paralyzed. But there are factories in other sectors that may send our workers back home,&#8221;* he said.

The Taiwanese government has stopped issuing working visas to Filipinos and has advised tour agencies to cancel tours to the Philippines, he said.

Taiwanese tourists rank fifth on a list of top foreign tourists who frequent the Philippines.

The Meco was ready to evacuate Filipino workers if needed, &#8220;but we are proceeding with caution,&#8221; Perez said.

He admitted he was not spared from the prejudice. He said when he tried to check in at a Taiwanese hotel, he was informed that there was no vacant room.

&#8220;There was a small hotel that accepted us. But they told us later they could not accommodate us because of the many reporters outside the hotel and the guests were complaining of being disturbed,&#8221; he said.
Local reporters have been hounding Perez there since the incident happened.




*Filipino attacked in Taiwan*
Posted by Online on May 18th, 2013

The Manila Economic Cooperation Office (MECO) in Taipei, Taiwan has confirmed reports that an overseas Filipino worker (OFW) in Kaoshiung was hit in the arm with a baseball bat by an angry Taiwanese.

The attack was apparently in retaliation to the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine Coast Guard during an encounter in overlapping waters of the two countries last week.

This was the first time that MECO confirmed reports about violence against Filipinos in Taiwan.

MECO Executive Director Antonio Basilio said the OFW suffered a bruised shoulder but has been discharged from the hospital already. &#8220;The OFW is now in our office in Kaoshiung,&#8221; Basilio said.

He further added that there are scooter-riding gangs who victimize foreigners with drive-by muggings.

Earlier, in order to legally address all the allegations of discrimination, MECO Labor Representative Rey Conferido called on OFWs who have been harassed or insulted by a Taiwanese to send such information, including the name and contact details of the accused, to his office. (Roy C. Mabasa)

Filipino attacked in Taiwan | Tempo - News in a Flash




*Philippines rejects Taiwan "murder" claims*
POSTED: 18 May 2013

The Philippines Saturday rejected Taiwan's allegations that its coastguards had intentionally murdered a Taiwanese fisherman whose death has triggered a major diplomatic spat.

MANILA: The Philippines Saturday rejected Taiwan's allegations that its coastguards had intentionally murdered a Taiwanese fisherman whose death has triggered a major diplomatic spat.

The 65-year-old fisherman was shot dead by Philippine coastguards who said his vessel intruded into Philippine waters.

Chen Wen-chi, head of the Taiwan team investigating the May 9 incident, said most of the bullets had hit the fishing boat's cockpit where its crew hid.

"By combining the... evidence, it clearly shows that the Philippine law enforcers were intentionally shooting the Guang Ta Hsin 28 crew members, which indicates their intent of murder," Chen told a news conference in Manila.

The shooting, which Manila insists occurred inside Philippine territorial waters but which Taipei counters happened within its exclusive economic zone, has led to Taiwanese sanctions against its neighbour.

President Benigno Aquino's spokesman Ricky Carandang rejected the murder allegations.

"There is an investigation ongoing so any premature statements that tend to confuse the issues and inflame passions should be avoided," Carandang told AFP.

Manila has warned its 87,000 nationals who work in Taiwan to stay indoors after a Filipino man was allegedly hospitalised in a baseball bat attack in Kaohsiung city.

Chen's comments echoed those made by Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou in Taipei on Friday.

"If (Philippine) civil servants used automatic weapons to fire at unarmed and provocative fishing boats, this was not carrying out their job duties. This is cold-blooded murder," Ma said.

Aquino made a "personal" apology on Wednesday over the "unintended" death arising from the patrol's duty of protecting Philippine waters against illegal fishing.

Taiwan has rejected the apology. It recalled its de facto envoy, banned the hiring of new Philippine workers and staged a military drill in waters off the northern Philippines earlier this week.

The Philippines officially recognises Beijing over Taipei but maintains trade ties with the island.

Chen, of the Taiwan justice ministry's department of international and cross-strait legal affairs, said her team was flying back to Taiwan immediately because their Filipino counterparts showed a "lack of sincerity and credibility".

Philippines rejects Taiwan "murder" claims - Channel NewsAsia


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## filipino_american

KirovAirship said:


> Indeed I don't, but since you mention 'reality', therefore I gave you 'reality'. How is that even irrelevant
> Reading blogs and sentiments right? There are huge amount of racists cursing around and enjoy causing conflicts in the internet such as in 4chan, 'reality' you say.
> There are independence movement in Ryukyu, unlike HK, their action is even official. Should I as a foreigner represent all the people of Ryukyu, jump to Ryukyu and clam that Ryukyu is not Japan.
> I/normal People would never come to a Ryukyu people and rudely tell him if he is a real people of Ryukyu or not , therefore I suppose you have to stop acting like an emperor of Macau&HK, being rude and tell us HK & Macau citizens what is "true" and what is not "real"



Not to brag but I have HKonger friends as well and they dont have to show me their birth certificates or any sort of identifications, their opinions are enough. And for me talking to them is more realistic than reading your post. At least I know they are real, but you? who knows, just saying.....


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## filipino_american

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Former envoy Lauro Baja tells Taiwan to 'remember who its friends are'*
> Friday, 17 May, 2013, 4:49am
> 
> A former top Philippines diplomat has urged Taiwan to "remember who its friends are", in comments that appear to suggest *Taiwan is ungrateful for Manila's longstanding support for its political autonomy.*
> 
> "Taiwan should remember we were the first ones to have these informal relations with them and we have substantial relations with them in terms of trade," said Lauro Baja, the former Philippines ambassador to the United Nations.
> 
> Baja said he decided to speak out as a citizen because of what he perceived was Taiwan's "overreaction" to the death of one of its fishermen on May 9 when a Philippines coastguard vessel fired at a Taiwanese fishing boat that Manila said was inside Philippine territory.
> 
> *Baja said that, contrary to Taipei's claims that the incident occurred in disputed territory, Taiwan had long recognised the area as a part of Philippine waters.*
> 
> "If you recall, during the time of [President] Cory Aquino, there was some sort of corridor established for Taiwanese fishermen" to pass through that area, he said. But Baja, once foreign affairs undersecretary for policy, did not know the status of that agreement because "it came from Malacanang Palace and did not pass through the DFA [Department of Foreign Affairs]".
> 
> "With their entity being a province of China, giving sanctions and refusing to receive the representative of the president, what is that? Sometimes I feel we have these things coming to us because of our very timid diplomacy," Baja said.
> 
> *Rex Robles, a retired Philippine Navy commodore and security consultant, also pointed to the corridor agreement as proof that Taiwan recognises Philippine sovereignty over that area.
> *
> "I think everyone has forgotten about the safety corridor which Cory Aquino signed during her term. It allowed Taiwanese fishermen to pass through Philippine waters on their way to the Pacific Ocean," he said.
> 
> Robles said if Taiwan believed the area was theirs, in the first place, "why will they sign that MOU [Memorandum of Understanding]?"



Nice article, like what I've posted earlier

Taiwan recognized the area as PHILIPPINE territory

Making what they CLAIM DISPUTED "UNDISPUTED"

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## Snomannen

filipino_american said:


> Not to brag but I have HKonger friends as well and they dont have to show me their birth certificates or any sort of identifications, their opinions are enough. And for me talking to them is more realistic than reading your post. At least I know they are real, but you? who knows, just saying.....



They don't need to because they are "real" as you just said. 

As a people of Macau and HKer I suppose I have no doubt that I have much more HK friends than you. Not to mention my family are from HK and Macau. Also we have both sides of pro-mainland or anti-mainland among us 
Besides who knows if you really have HK friends. I have posted my identity and proved my words but you don't. 
As I have mentioned, you as a outsider have no right to judge us, so I hope you can take back what you just said, and let US judge ourselves.


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## Bob Ong

auspice said:


> Ma is crazy and barbaric.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We should not be afraid of the Taiwanese retaliations and sanctions since looking forward in the future.
> 
> They need us more than we need them.
> 
> I would suggest to BAN all the Chinese and Taiwanese nationals in the Philippines.
> 
> Less drug lords and smugglers. Less criminality. China and Taiwan are country of criminals, poachers and fvcking thieves.


Nice memes. Taiwan is a US ally, using US-supplied arms to threaten another US ally. I would give up my right hand just to hear the dressing down that stupid Ma is going to get from Washington!


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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> Thanks admiral general much appreciated of all the nay anti filipinos here like you the most because you always know to the right things i can laugh at that's million man!
> 
> 
> 
> Well he is trying to score big points with the locals voters but my countrymen has to pay the price for his political mileage
> 
> 
> 
> tell me sir do you know what 80 miles to the nears Philippine Province is?



yes, it's called disputed territory.


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## Bob Ong

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Former envoy Lauro Baja tells Taiwan to 'remember who its friends are'*
> Friday, 17 May, 2013, 4:49am
> 
> A former top Philippines diplomat has urged Taiwan to "remember who its friends are", in comments that appear to suggest *Taiwan is ungrateful for Manila's longstanding support for its political autonomy.*
> 
> "Taiwan should remember we were the first ones to have these informal relations with them and we have substantial relations with them in terms of trade," said Lauro Baja, the former Philippines ambassador to the United Nations.
> 
> Baja said he decided to speak out as a citizen because of what he perceived was Taiwan's "overreaction" to the death of one of its fishermen on May 9 when a Philippines coastguard vessel fired at a Taiwanese fishing boat that Manila said was inside Philippine territory.
> 
> *Baja said that, contrary to Taipei's claims that the incident occurred in disputed territory, Taiwan had long recognised the area as a part of Philippine waters.*
> 
> "If you recall, during the time of [President] Cory Aquino, there was some sort of corridor established for Taiwanese fishermen" to pass through that area, he said. But Baja, once foreign affairs undersecretary for policy, did not know the status of that agreement because "it came from Malacanang Palace and did not pass through the DFA [Department of Foreign Affairs]".
> 
> "With their entity being a province of China, giving sanctions and refusing to receive the representative of the president, what is that? Sometimes I feel we have these things coming to us because of our very timid diplomacy," Baja said.
> 
> *Rex Robles, a retired Philippine Navy commodore and security consultant, also pointed to the corridor agreement as proof that Taiwan recognises Philippine sovereignty over that area.
> *
> "I think everyone has forgotten about the safety corridor which Cory Aquino signed during her term. It allowed Taiwanese fishermen to pass through Philippine waters on their way to the Pacific Ocean," he said.
> 
> Robles said if Taiwan believed the area was theirs, in the first place, "why will they sign that MOU [Memorandum of Understanding]?"
> 
> Robles said he was "puzzled over the Taiwanese government's overreaction" and called for a thorough probe.
> 
> Outrage over Taiwan's Manila bashing and reported incidents of violence against Filipinos in Taipei spilled over yesterday to the social media.
> 
> Rafael Alunan, a businessman and former cabinet minister, wrote on Facebook: "China will take over Taiwan one of these days, and I will not shed a tear. Even without that formal takeover, they seem to be in bed together applying the same tactics against us and Japan in our respective territories."
> 
> International law expert Harry Roque noted that Taiwan has no legal leg to demand a fishing agreement with Manila because "Taiwan is not an independent state and should not expect to be treated as such".
> 
> 
> Former envoy Lauro Baja tells Taiwan to 'remember who its friends are' | South China Morning Post


They're technically our ally yet it would seem that they don't want to solve this through diplomacy. They probably are being harassed by China into doing this. If both would go to war against each other, we'll just fall into China's game. Both countries will suffer terrible losses. China will be the winner in the end which destroys two of its enemies without doing anything. More like a "use your enemy to destroy your enemy" sort of thing.

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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> lol first of all are YOU FAMILIAR with WU MAOS?
> 
> China hires INTERNET COMMENTATOR (well you could be one of them who knows) to THANK or LIKE pro CHINESE statement....oh well the WORLD already knows about WU MAOS so go ahead brag the thanks you get from your so called INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY POSTERS hahahaa!
> 
> Self Defense?
> 
> What if I throw you back your question
> 
> let me rephrase the only important question in this thread:
> 
> 1) What if it was self-defense?



No, I don't know Wu Mao, but let me step back one question, cus I think I got ahead of myself. Do you even know what Self-defense is? It's use of necessary force equal to the imminent threat upon you in order to repel that threat. How is being chased a threat? If ramming was a threat, then the most PCG could have done was ram it back.



filipino_american said:


> Hahaha he thinks that he is so SMART when he can't even answer the QUESTION:
> 
> What the heck was the TAIWANESE fishing vessel doing in the Philippine TERRITORIAL WATERS in the first place??? ANY GOOD EXCUSE???



he was in the overlapping zone, stop denying the truth, and it doesn't matter where he was because deadly force was not necessary anywhere against an unarmed fisherman, smart guy


----------



## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> yes, it's called disputed territory.


duh the incident happened deep in the Batanes Group of Islands. The islands were erased when shown by the Taiwanese media and they made it appear that the area is in disputed area. Your government-controlled media lied to you.


----------



## filipino_american

KirovAirship said:


> They don't need to because they are "real" as you just said.
> 
> As a people of Macau and HKer I suppose I have no doubt that I have much more HK friends than you. Not to mention my family are from HK and Macau. Also we have both sides of pro-mainland or anti-mainland among us
> Besides who knows if you really have HK friends. I have posted my identity and proved my words but you don't.
> As I have mentioned, you as a outsider have no right to judge us, so I hope you can take back what you just said, and let US judge ourselves.



Not taking back what I've said.

If I were you, I would reread what I posted first about HK and CHINA before I comment. I said HK only hires filipino maids in CHINA and CHINESE mainlanders act as if they have Filipino maids. And also I said HK is not really CHINA CHINA. So go ahead publish your identity, if you want publish also your face picture.


----------



## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Hahahaha so the US only urged the Philippines to "APOLOGIZE" after they have apologized already? lol lol lol
> 
> It took the US so many days to say that, they tried NOT to condemn the PH until the PH said SORRY.
> 
> How Ironic right?
> 
> lol



you left out a whole lot of details: in addition to an apology, punishment of the perpetrator and compensation.



filipino_american said:


> That's not what my HONG KONGER friend told me
> 
> #REALITY
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the FISHERMAN was UNARMED, BUT was "VIOLENT"
> 
> 
> GOSH COMMON SENSE PLEASE!



LMAO.. VIOLENT AS IN RUNNING AWAY VIOLENTLY?



p3avi8tor69 said:


> If that is true and not another lie, then shame on the Taiwanese for breaking protocol. Even the Soviets did not stoop that low.



THAT IS SUCH BULLCRAP, HE COULDN'T FIND A 5-STAR HOTEL ON SHORT NOTICE, THAT'S ALL, HE WAS PROVIDED ACCOMODATION. HE SAID HE RECEIVED COLD TREATMENT, DID HE EXPECT MORE?


----------



## Snomannen

filipino_american said:


> Not taking back what I've said.
> 
> If I were you, I would reread what I posted first about HK and CHINA before I comment. I said HK only hires filipino maids in CHINA and CHINESE mainlanders act as if they have Filipino maids. And also I said HK is not really CHINA CHINA. So go ahead publish your identity, if you want publish also your face picture.



I have always been replying your nonsense "HK is not really China" the whole time, what are you even thinking Mr.Emperor of HK . If I were you, I would stop being rude, telling nonsense and representing the others like you rude the whold wide world. 

Well I suppose I should now claim "Moroland" is not really Phil. then


----------



## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> No wonder...
> 
> The Bureau of Fishing and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) on Friday said Taiwanese make up the majority of the poachers caught over the years in the Batanes group of islands, where a Taiwanese fisherman was recently killed in an encounter with Philippine authorities.
> 
> About two to three Taiwanese are caught poaching each year in the Batanes group of islands, northern Philippines
> 
> Now you just verified that
> 
> 1. Taiwanese people DO NOT FOLLOW INTERNATIONAL LAW
> 
> 2. Taiwanese Government DO NOT EDUCATE her people where to FISH LEGALLY
> 
> 3. Taiwanese people has a LONG HISTORY of violating and NOT respecting other NATION'S SOVEREIGNTY
> 
> AND YET THEY BLAME THE PHILIPPINES FOR EVERYTHING
> 
> 
> ENOUGH SAID



YOU ARE RIGHT, SO LET'S KILL THEM ALL, EXCEPT THE OCEAN IS CONTROLLED BY THEM NOW


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> No, I don't know Wu Mao, but let me step back one question, cus I think I got ahead of myself. Do you even know what Self-defense is? It's use of necessary force equal to the imminent threat upon you in order to repel that threat. How is being chased a threat? If ramming was a threat, then the most PCG could have done was ram it back.
> 
> 
> 
> he was in the overlapping zone, stop denying the truth, and it doesn't matter where he was because deadly force was not necessary anywhere against an unarmed fisherman, smart guy



The PCG warned them MULTIPLE TIMES, still they did not COMPLY, and they tried to RAM THE SHIP, proving that they were VIOLENT AND WERE TREAT TO OTHERS

Disputed Waters??? Are YOU EFFIN BLIND???

The Incident HAPPENED in the BALINTANG CHANNEL

Between the Philippine ISLANDS of BATANES and BABUYAN

Taiwan even BLURRED BATANES ISLANDS on their MEDIA REPORTS to persuade the public that the incident happened between TAIWAN and the PHILIPPINES.

Any GEOGRAPHER and UNCLOS EXPERT WOULD LAUGH AT YOU SERIOUSLY!


----------



## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Taiwan might gotten our APOLOGY BUT not our SINCERITY.
> 
> If you go to FILIPINO webites, News, blogs and the likes.
> 
> You will find out that
> 
> 99.9% of Filipinos
> 
> don't think
> 
> Taiwan deserved an apology[/QUOTE
> 
> FILIPINOS WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO DO WHAT THEIR OCEAN. YOU GUYS DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO EXPOLIT NATURAL RESOURCES, LET ALONE UNDERSTAND MARITIME RIGHTS AND STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE OF SEA CHANNELS, SO WHY WASTE GOOD OCEAN ON THE PHILIPPINES?


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> you left out a whole lot of details: in addition to an apology, punishment of the perpetrator and compensation.
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO.. VIOLENT AS IN RUNNING AWAY VIOLENTLY?
> 
> 
> 
> THAT IS SUCH BULLCRAP, HE COULDN'T FIND A 5-STAR HOTEL ON SHORT NOTICE, THAT'S ALL, HE WAS PROVIDED ACCOMODATION. HE SAID HE RECEIVED COLD TREATMENT, DID HE EXPECT MORE?



VIOLENT like RAMMING!

If you do not KNOW WHAT RAMMING is, can you please OPEN your dictionary? thanks


----------



## sdjd2013

KirovAirship said:


> I have always been replying your nonsense "HK is not really China" the whole time, what are you even thinking Mr.Emperor of HK . If I were you, I would stop being rude, telling nonsense and representing the others like you rude the whold wide world.
> 
> Well I suppose I should now claim "Moroland" is not really Phil. then



what do you expect from people who have no inkling about geography


----------



## JSCh

filipino_american said:


> Yes Taiwan is NOT a signatory, but CHINA is.
> 
> Technically Taiwan is PART of CHINA, and that being said, whether you like it or not, TAIWAN has to follow UNCLOS because like what I've said, TAIWAN IS PART OF CHINA.
> 
> Also, TAIWAN has acknowledged the boundaries of the Philippines (they even signed it) during the reign of President Corazon Aquino of the Philippines. They even SOUGHT permission to cross the Philippine Waters of BATANES Islands.
> 
> Also, the International Community recognizes the islands of Batanes and the waters surrounding them as part of the Philippines.
> 
> Given that:
> 1. China and the Philippines signed and ratified UNCLOS
> 
> 2. Taiwan recognized the Boundary of the Philippines in the North (Modern Boundary) by signing the NOTICE in the 1980s. And
> 
> 3. The International Community recognizes the islands and Waters PART of the PHILIPPINES and not TAIWAN as evidenced by MAPS and ATLASES published by each country.
> 
> UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, TAIWAN has NO RIGHT to INTRUDE any territory of the Philippines.
> 
> The Philippines has MAINTAINED effective jurisdiction WITHOUT any OBJECTION ever since the country became independent.


Taiwan is part of China. But ROC did not signed UNCLOS, therefore they are not bound by it. ROC is only bound by whatever agreement she has with any other country.
All countries has to respect the territory right of another countries. But claiming an area to be undisputed when clearly another do not agree do not work in international law. The world that we lived in today respect the sovereignty of all nations. All nations could chose to abide by or not abide by any international law.


----------



## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> VIOLENT like RAMMING!
> 
> If you do not KNOW WHAT RAMMING is, can you please OPEN your dictionary? thanks



THE fisherman was not shot when he allegedly tried the ramming, but when he was running away. Tell me, smart guy, what violence is involved in running away?


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> YOU ARE RIGHT, SO LET'S KILL THEM ALL, EXCEPT THE OCEAN IS CONTROLLED BY THEM NOW



FYI, MANY HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND ONLY ONE has been SHOT SO FAR.

As long as you STAY in the INTERNATIONAL WATERS, then there will be no problems.



sdjd2013 said:


> filipino_american said:
> 
> 
> 
> Taiwan might gotten our APOLOGY BUT not our SINCERITY.
> 
> If you go to FILIPINO webites, News, blogs and the likes.
> 
> You will find out that
> 
> 99.9% of Filipinos
> 
> don't think
> 
> Taiwan deserved an apology[/QUOTE
> 
> FILIPINOS WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO DO WHAT THEIR OCEAN. YOU GUYS DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO EXPOLIT NATURAL RESOURCES, LET ALONE UNDERSTAND MARITIME RIGHTS AND STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE OF SEA CHANNELS, SO WHY WASTE GOOD OCEAN ON THE PHILIPPINES?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter what you say,
> 
> 99.9% of Filipinos
> 
> don't think
> 
> Taiwan deserved an apology
> 
> Nuff Said
Click to expand...


----------



## sdjd2013

JSCh said:


> Taiwan is part of China. But ROC did not signed UNCLOS, therefore they are not bound by it. ROC is only bound by whatever agreement she has with any other country.
> All countries has to respect the territory right of another countries. But claiming an area to be undisputed when clearly another do not agree do not work in international law. The world that we lived in today respect the sovereignty of all nations. All nations could chose to abide by or not abide by any international law.



Thank you sir, for your voice of reason in this morass of shits


----------



## filipino_american

JSCh said:


> Taiwan is part of China. But ROC did not signed UNCLOS, therefore they are not bound by it. ROC is only bound by whatever agreement she has with any other country.
> All countries has to respect the territory right of another countries. But claiming an area to be undisputed when clearly another do not agree do not work in international law. The world that we lived in today respect the sovereignty of all nations. All nations could chose to abide by or not abide by any international law.



Disputed waters? Taiwan EVEN SIGNED and recognized that the AREA was UNDER the Philippines during the term of President Cory Aquino in the 1980s.

Taiwan is contradicting what they've signed then.


----------



## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> FYI, MANY HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND ONLY ONE has been SHOT SO FAR.
> 
> As long as you STAY in the INTERNATIONAL WATERS, then there will be no problems.
> 
> you are soo wrong, this was not the first shooting of Taiwanese fishermen by PCG, this is a routine that has gone on for 20 years. It is standard procedure for PCG to shoot at any Taiwanese fishermen on sight, then capture the boat as a prize, and then extort the fishermen's family.
> 
> and don't gimme your bull crap about Pilipino waters, Taiwanese fishermen have been pushed around by the Japs and now Flips for long enough. Just get ready for retribution.


----------



## Bob Ong

Taiwan is really very persistent in their agenda to get US support. 






So no wonder if their reporter got palmed on her face


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> THE fisherman was not shot when he allegedly tried the ramming, but when he was running away. Tell me, smart guy, what violence is involved in running away?



Running away my A**.

Still RAMMING is A VIOLENT action. If that incident happened in the US, I bet they would have done the same thing!



sdjd2013 said:


> filipino_american said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, MANY HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND ONLY ONE has been SHOT SO FAR.
> 
> As long as you STAY in the INTERNATIONAL WATERS, then there will be no problems.
> 
> you are soo wrong, this was not the first shooting of Taiwanese fishermen by PCG, this is a routine that has gone on for 20 years. It is standard procedure for PCG to shoot at any Taiwanese fishermen on sight, then capture the boat as a prize, and then extort the fishermen's family.
> 
> and don't gimme your bull crap about Pilipino waters, Taiwanese fishermen have been pushed around by the Japs and now Flips for long enough. Just get ready for retribution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha and you only complain now? How Ironic right?
> 
> Retribution? go ahead
> 
> if you want another dead TAIWANESE lol
> 
> 
> 
> sdjd2013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you sir, for your voice of reason in this morass of shits
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I bet you guys both failed GEOGRAPHY.
> 
> SMH.
Click to expand...


----------



## faithfulguy

I've not talk too much in here because the time of discussion is over. Its time for action.


----------



## sdjd2013

Malaya said:


> Yes and he is acting very irrational and lack of prudence. Instead of cooling down the tensions, he keeps ratcheting it up. President Ma is barking to restore confidence from his people, at the expense of the Philippines. It would have been proper if Mr. Ma lets the investigation take its course and do it in a civilized manner.
> 
> 
> Anyway 74% of Taiwanese are dissatisfied with President, Ma. He's got to do everything and anything to gain favors from the public by sensationalizing this incident.
> 
> 
> Poaching is one issue, ramming your boat with the intent to harm or evade apprehension is another. The bullet was not intended for the fisherman, it was intended for the motor of their boat. The fisherman was accidentally hit. If it was intentional then none of those fishermen will survive. The bullet holes are located at the front, side and at the back of the boat. Not on the deck where the passengers are located. Has anyone really seen how much a 30caliber machine gun can do? 52 shot holes.
> 
> IF the coast guards wanted to kill the fisher man intentionally I would say that at least 60% of those bullets would have hit that fisherman and yet it's located at the front of the boat indicating that the fisherman's boat was FACING THE COASTGUARDS boat in RAMMING position.
> 
> 
> 
> President Ma has demanded an apology, compensation, fishing rights, etc within the deadline it imposed regardless of the result of investigation. His reaction to the situation is strange and irrational because such demands are normally raised after the result of investigations. The Philippines already have done enough in taking steps to apologize (disregarding the fact that National Territory was crossed). Taiwan should re-calibrate their way of thinking and approach on the issue as their temper-driven actions might lead to far greater and long-term consequences.
> 
> If Taiwan continues this hot-headed attitude towards the issue instead of settling it with diplomacy, then it should better prepare itself to how the international community will respond to the actions it is taking - a response that might affect the 'Taiwan dream' of state recognition.




Well, Ma is not a hot head. He is a poor diplomat for gambling away all his chips so fast. However, I believe the Taiwan investigation team has been rebuffed by the PH Dept. of Justice, which is obviously disingenuous.


Ma's rating has nothing to do with anything, but distraction created by Aguino and the PH State Dept. However, that is not to say he doesn't want to please his people. If anyone is a hothead, it is probably the Taiwanese public at large, who usually are pretty hot-headed not understanding the bigger picture.


This is nonsense. How can you say spraying of bullets (strafing) is unintentional? it was bordering an intentional act if not wantonly depraved. that's like throwing a bomb but misses the target and instead killing the guy standing next to the target. Can you claim unintentional then?

Taiwan is at a point of no return. I think it's time for the PH government to stop apologizing and start producing the video tape and other evidence to prove "Self-Defense" Also, allow a joint investigation with Taiwan to demonstrate to the world its innocence. That is what everyone wants. If the PCG did act in self-defense, then Taiwanese people surely would look like morons then.


----------



## Bob Ong

*MECO chief blames Taiwan media for worsening tensions*
(philstar.com) | Updated May 18, 2013 






*MANILA, Philippines - There seems to be a hate campaign against Filipinos by Taiwanese media, the Philippines' top representative to Taipei said Saturday.
*
*"Emotions run high in Taiwan. Parang may hate campaign ang media against Filipinos,"* Manila Economic and Cultural Office Chairman Amadeo Perez said in an interview over radio dzMM.

Perez said that the Taiwanese government's earlier order to freeze the hiring of Filipinos could have been a result of media releases accusing their leaders of being too lenient towards the Philippines despite the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman off Batanes province last week.

He added that the Taiwanese media has also been reporting that the Philippine government&#8217;s apology to the people of Taiwan was insincere because presidential deputy spokesperson Abigail Valte smiled when she made the public announcement three days ago.

"Lahat, tini-twist nila lahat. Ang report nga sa Taiwanese (media), sinabi nila, hindi ako tinanggap sa Ministry of Foreign Affairs e andun sila mismo paglabas ko mula sa meeting sa ambassador," he said.

Perez said that he was able to hand over President Benigno Aquino III's apology letter to Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs on May 15, contrary to reports by Taiwanese media.

He said that he sent another letter of apology to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Friday.

Perez had confirmed reports that some Filipinos were harassed in Taiwan over the fisherman's killing. He said that at least two Filipinos were reportedly attacked with baseball bats.

Despite the attacks, the official said that the Philippines "should be patient" and wait for the incident to cool down.

PCG personnel violated rules

A report by The Philippine Star quoting an official privy to the Philippine government's investigation on the May 9 shooting of the Taiwanese fisherman, said that the Philippine Coast Guard personnel appeared to be on the defensive but may have violated rules.

&#8220;That is what the investigation has shown so far,&#8221; said the official, who declined to be named pending completion of the probe.

&#8220;While it could have been self-defense, the next questions would be: was it proper to immediately fire the shots? What are the rules of engagement?" the official said.

&#8220;Given that they acted in self-defense, is it justifiable to fire right away? What do the rules of engagement of the PCG say?&#8221; the official added.

Information gathered so far by the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) showed the crew of MCS-3001, a 35-meter vessel jointly manned by the PCG and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR), were preventing the Taiwanese fishermen from further entering Philippine territory. One of the foreign vessels, Guang Ta Hsin-28, threatened to ram the PCG vessel several times.

The NBI based its initial findings on the incident report submitted by the PCG and on interviews with coast guard and BFAR personnel involved, as well as ballistics testing of firearms used.

The NBI, meanwhile, presented to the media on Friday the firearms involved in the incident. The guns include eight M-16 rifles, six M-14 rifles and a machine gun.

The bureau will issue an official report next week.

MECO chief blames Taiwan media for worsening tensions | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com


----------



## filipino_american

Last Post for Tonight

 TAIWAN DOES NOT DESERVE AN APOLOGY, COMPENSATION OR ANYTHING.

DEAL WITH THAT FACT

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bob Ong

*Filipino assaulted by 4 Taiwanese in Tainan*
The China Post/Asia News Network
Saturday, May 18, 2013






*TAIPEI, Taiwan - Police confirmed that a Philippine worker was attacked by four Taiwanese and beaten with iron sticks and baseball bats in Tainan City on May 16 following the recent heated dispute between Taiwan and the Philippines.
*
There have been unconfirmed reports regarding random attacks on Philippine workers in Taiwan triggered by the Philippines' responses to Taiwan's demands over the shooting of a Taiwanese fishing boat.

According to the police, a 30-year-old Philippine worker was surrounded and beaten by four Taiwanese men on May 16 when he was on his way to work.

The police said no one that the worker knows has any resentment against him, so the police suspected that it may have been a random attack.

President Ma Ying-jeou posted on his Facebook page, stating that it is the Philippine government which should be responsible for the Hung Shih-cheng shooting incident, so the public should not vent anger against Filipinos in Taiwan.

Hong Hocheng, vice chairman of the National Science Council, said that there are currently over 7,000 Philippine workers employed in the three major science parks in Taiwan, and based on basic human rights, employers should not discriminate against Philippine workers.

"If Taiwanese people do not wish our fishermen to be insulted," Hocheng said, "then Taiwanese should not mistreat innocent Philippine workers in Taiwan."

Hsia Hsiao-chuan, the head of Shih-Hsin University's Graduate Institute for social Transformation Studies, said that Philippine nationals are also victims under the incompetent leadership of the Philippine government.

"The Philippine government does not equal Philippine nationals," Hsia said, "and the Taiwanese government should step out and stop the public from venting their anger on innocent Philippine workers."

Amid intense public anger over the fatal shooting of the Taiwanese fisherman, the government has introduced a second wave of retaliatory measures, including a halting of all technology, trade, fishery and agriculture exchanges, as well as discouraging travel to the Philippines as the Philippine government appears unlikely to respond immediately to Taiwan's demands.

Filipino assaulted by 4 Taiwanese in Tainan


----------



## sdjd2013

actually, U.S. had better be careful, b/c a wrong move can push Taiwan away as an ally, since this incident is very important to the Taiwan people.


----------



## Bob Ong

JSCh said:


> Taiwan is part of China. But ROC did not signed UNCLOS, therefore they are not bound by it. ROC is only bound by whatever agreement she has with any other country.
> All countries has to respect the territory right of another countries. But claiming an area to be undisputed when clearly another do not agree do not work in international law. The world that we lived in today respect the sovereignty of all nations. All nations could chose to abide by or not abide by any international law.


I think the ROC government has claimed sovereignty over all of "China", in a definition that includes mainland China and Outer Mongolia, as well as Taiwan and has vowed to retake the power back from the Communist soon. So China better get ready


----------



## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> *Filipino assaulted by 4 Taiwanese in Tainan*
> The China Post/Asia News Network
> Saturday, May 18, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *TAIPEI, Taiwan - Police confirmed that a Philippine worker was attacked by four Taiwanese and beaten with iron sticks and baseball bats in Tainan City on May 16 following the recent heated dispute between Taiwan and the Philippines.
> *
> There have been unconfirmed reports regarding random attacks on Philippine workers in Taiwan triggered by the Philippines' responses to Taiwan's demands over the shooting of a Taiwanese fishing boat.
> 
> According to the police, a 30-year-old Philippine worker was surrounded and beaten by four Taiwanese men on May 16 when he was on his way to work.
> 
> The police said no one that the worker knows has any resentment against him, so the police suspected that it may have been a random attack.
> 
> President Ma Ying-jeou posted on his Facebook page, stating that it is the Philippine government which should be responsible for the Hung Shih-cheng shooting incident, so the public should not vent anger against Filipinos in Taiwan.
> 
> Hong Hocheng, vice chairman of the National Science Council, said that there are currently over 7,000 Philippine workers employed in the three major science parks in Taiwan, and based on basic human rights, employers should not discriminate against Philippine workers.
> 
> "If Taiwanese people do not wish our fishermen to be insulted," Hocheng said, "then Taiwanese should not mistreat innocent Philippine workers in Taiwan."
> 
> Hsia Hsiao-chuan, the head of Shih-Hsin University's Graduate Institute for social Transformation Studies, said that Philippine nationals are also victims under the incompetent leadership of the Philippine government.
> 
> "The Philippine government does not equal Philippine nationals," Hsia said, "and the Taiwanese government should step out and stop the public from venting their anger on innocent Philippine workers."
> 
> Amid intense public anger over the fatal shooting of the Taiwanese fisherman, the government has introduced a second wave of retaliatory measures, including a halting of all technology, trade, fishery and agriculture exchanges, as well as discouraging travel to the Philippines as the Philippine government appears unlikely to respond immediately to Taiwan's demands.
> 
> Filipino assaulted by 4 Taiwanese in Tainan



TOO BAD THE VICTIM WASN'T YOU, INSTEAD OF THAT POOR INNOCENT GUY.



Bob Ong said:


> *MECO chief blames Taiwan media for worsening tensions*
> (philstar.com) | Updated May 18, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MANILA, Philippines - There seems to be a hate campaign against Filipinos by Taiwanese media, the Philippines' top representative to Taipei said Saturday.
> *
> *"Emotions run high in Taiwan. Parang may hate campaign ang media against Filipinos,"* Manila Economic and Cultural Office Chairman Amadeo Perez said in an interview over radio dzMM.
> 
> Perez said that the Taiwanese government's earlier order to freeze the hiring of Filipinos could have been a result of media releases accusing their leaders of being too lenient towards the Philippines despite the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman off Batanes province last week.
> 
> He added that the Taiwanese media has also been reporting that the Philippine government&#8217;s apology to the people of Taiwan was insincere because presidential deputy spokesperson Abigail Valte smiled when she made the public announcement three days ago.
> 
> "Lahat, tini-twist nila lahat. Ang report nga sa Taiwanese (media), sinabi nila, hindi ako tinanggap sa Ministry of Foreign Affairs e andun sila mismo paglabas ko mula sa meeting sa ambassador," he said.
> 
> Perez said that he was able to hand over President Benigno Aquino III's apology letter to Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs on May 15, contrary to reports by Taiwanese media.
> 
> He said that he sent another letter of apology to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Friday.
> 
> Perez had confirmed reports that some Filipinos were harassed in Taiwan over the fisherman's killing. He said that at least two Filipinos were reportedly attacked with baseball bats.
> 
> Despite the attacks, the official said that the Philippines "should be patient" and wait for the incident to cool down.
> 
> PCG personnel violated rules
> 
> A report by The Philippine Star quoting an official privy to the Philippine government's investigation on the May 9 shooting of the Taiwanese fisherman, said that the Philippine Coast Guard personnel appeared to be on the defensive but may have violated rules.
> 
> &#8220;That is what the investigation has shown so far,&#8221; said the official, who declined to be named pending completion of the probe.
> 
> &#8220;While it could have been self-defense, the next questions would be: was it proper to immediately fire the shots? What are the rules of engagement?" the official said.
> 
> &#8220;Given that they acted in self-defense, is it justifiable to fire right away? What do the rules of engagement of the PCG say?&#8221; the official added.
> 
> Information gathered so far by the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) showed the crew of MCS-3001, a 35-meter vessel jointly manned by the PCG and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR), were preventing the Taiwanese fishermen from further entering Philippine territory. One of the foreign vessels, Guang Ta Hsin-28, threatened to ram the PCG vessel several times.
> 
> The NBI based its initial findings on the incident report submitted by the PCG and on interviews with coast guard and BFAR personnel involved, as well as ballistics testing of firearms used.
> 
> The NBI, meanwhile, presented to the media on Friday the firearms involved in the incident. The guns include eight M-16 rifles, six M-14 rifles and a machine gun.
> 
> The bureau will issue an official report next week.
> 
> MECO chief blames Taiwan media for worsening tensions | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com



TOO BAD, POOR BASILIO


----------



## filipino_american

faithfulguy said:


> I've not talk too much in here because the time of discussion is over. Its time for action.



Yes time for action.

Go ahead and CONTINUE with the SANCTION.

I will ASSURE YOU 200% that the Philippines WILL NOT BE HEAVILY AFFECTED.

And go AHEAD, MAKE ANY VIOLENT MOVES in the Philippine Waters and YOU WILL BE  SHOT DEAD.



sdjd2013 said:


> actually, U.S. had better be careful, b/c a wrong move can push Taiwan away as an ally, since this incident is very important to the Taiwan people.



Ok go ahead, JOIN the COMMIES! But dont cry after OK?  lmao zedong!


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## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> TOO BAD THE VICTIM WASN'T YOU, INSTEAD OF THAT POOR INNOCENT GUY.
> 
> TOO BAD, POOR BASILIO


now that's scary. now we know who's really barbaric


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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Last Post for Tonight
> 
> TAIWAN DOES NOT DESERVE AN APOLOGY, COMPENSATION OR ANYTHING.
> 
> DEAL WITH THAT FACT
> 
> LET'S SAY YOU ARE RIGHT, THE FISHERMAN TRESPASSED, YOU THINK HE DESERVED TO BE STOPED WHILE RUNNING AWAY BY INDISCRIMINATE SHOTS FIRED UPON HIS BOAT?


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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> he was in the overlapping zone, stop denying the truth, and it doesn't matter where he was because deadly force was not necessary anywhere against an unarmed fisherman, smart guy



Disputed waters????

think again


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## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> now that's scary. now we know who's really barbaric



you deserved the bat over your head as much as the fisherman deserves a bullet in his, you spokesman for the thugs.



filipino_american said:


> Disputed waters????
> 
> think again



yea, but this is a manun map drawn by Captain Cook, right?

Oh, wait, is that Taiwan just to the north??


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## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> LET'S SAY YOU ARE RIGHT, THE FISHERMAN TRESPASSED, YOU THINK HE DESERVED TO BE STOPED WHILE RUNNING AWAY BY INDISCRIMINATE SHOTS FIRED UPON HIS BOAT?


Our coastguard followed the rules of engagement. Warnings shots were even fired. But your st-p-d poacher, Hung, didn't budge and tried to ram his ship. What do you expect our coastguard would do, eh? He got what he asked for. Of course, he'd be sh*t


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## sdjd2013

sdjd2013 said:


> you deserved the bat over your head as much as the fisherman deserves a bullet in his, you spokesman for the thugs.
> 
> 
> 
> yea, but this is a manun map drawn by Captain Cook, right?
> 
> Oh, wait, is that Taiwan just to the north??



if you guys can't learn to be nice to your neighbors, then I say to hell with you and let's go to war then, if U.S. wants in, then so will china. You happy? let's start WWIII.


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## faithfulguy

filipino_american said:


> Yes time for action.
> 
> Go ahead and CONTINUE with the SANCTION.
> 
> I will ASSURE YOU 200% that the Philippines WILL NOT BE HEAVILY AFFECTED.
> 
> And go AHEAD, MAKE ANY VIOLENT MOVES in the Philippine Waters and YOU WILL BE  SHOT DEAD.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok go ahead, JOIN the COMMIES! But dont cry after OK?  lmao zedong!



If Taiwan intercept all trips going to Philippine, is there anything Philippine can do???? Yes, it can apologize, compensate and turn over the murderer. Its time for Philippine to surrender the criminals inside its military.

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## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> Our coastguard followed the rules of engagement. Warnings shots were even fired. But your st-p-d poacher, Hung, didn't budge and tried to ram his ship. What do you expect our coastguard would do, eh? He got what he asked for. Of course, he'd be sh*t



DON'T YOU THINK THAT IS SELF-SERVING? WHY SHOULD ANY ONE BELIEVE WHAT THAT PCG SAID AT FACE VALUE? GIVEN HE IS TRYING TO EXONERATE HIMSELF? DO YOU TAKE EVERYONE AS A FOOL?


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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> filipino_american said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last Post for Tonight
> 
> TAIWAN DOES NOT DESERVE AN APOLOGY, COMPENSATION OR ANYTHING.
> 
> DEAL WITH THAT FACT
> 
> LET'S SAY YOU ARE RIGHT, THE FISHERMAN TRESPASSED, YOU THINK HE DESERVED TO BE STOPED WHILE RUNNING AWAY BY INDISCRIMINATE SHOTS FIRED UPON HIS BOAT?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont have to think because I am REALLY RIGHT
> 
> The guy WAS VIOLENT AND TRIED to kill the PCG crew by trying to RAM them. I dont blame the pcg for trying to disable the INTRUDER'S engine. JUST TOO BAD, the intruder was at the wrong spot. Their ACTION was JUSTIFIABLE COMMON SENSE PLEASE!
> 
> And why are you blaming it all on the Philippines?
> 
> Blame also the GUY for illegally entering the territorial waters of the Philippines
> 
> and BLAME YOUR GOVERNMENT!!! Your government FAILED TO EDUCATE ITS PEOPLE ABOUT FOLLOWING INTERNATIONAL LAW.
Click to expand...

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## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> you deserved the bat over your head as much as the fisherman deserves a bullet in his, you spokesman for the thugs.
> 
> yea, but this is a manun map drawn by Captain Cook, right?
> 
> Oh, wait, is that Taiwan just to the north??


But before that will happen. I'll make sure to shoot you first on your head LOL

You don't even have a country of your own. You're just renegades. That's what you are. Thieves.


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## filipino_american

faithfulguy said:


> If Taiwan intercept all trips going to Philippine, is there anything Philippine can do???? Yes, it can apologize, compensate and turn over the murderer. Its time for Philippine to surrender the criminals inside its military.



Intercept trips? how????? TAIWAN HAS NO CAPABILITY. China alone keeps your military busy right??? And TAIWAN will face the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY for sure. Taiwan is NOT a recognized STATE so better BEHAVE okay?

"Its time for Philippine to surrender the criminals inside its military" I guarantee you 300%, it won't happen...keep on dreaming!


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## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> DON'T YOU THINK THAT IS SELF-SERVING? WHY SHOULD ANY ONE BELIEVE WHAT THAT PCG SAID AT FACE VALUE? GIVEN HE IS TRYING TO EXONERATE HIMSELF? DO YOU TAKE EVERYONE AS A FOOL?


you better ask first your fisherman why they ramp PH patrol boat and why they are in the Philippine waters? Our coastguard are not ignorant to just fired those fisherman without a reason...may your fisherman catches a illegal marine species and try to bump PH boat to avoid confiscation.



sdjd2013 said:


> if you guys can't learn to be nice to your neighbors, then I say to hell with you and let's go to war then, if U.S. wants in, then so will china. You happy? let's start WWIII.


Ok, we now approve that China makes a full-scale invasion of Taiwan, their rebel province! 

GO GO GO! Make it a lightning invasion!


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## faithfulguy

filipino_american said:


> Intercept trips? how????? TAIWAN HAS NO CAPABILITY. China alone keeps your military busy right??? And TAIWAN will face the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY for sure. Taiwan is NOT a recognized STATE so better BEHAVE okay?
> 
> "Its time for Philippine to surrender the criminals inside its military" I guarantee you 300%, it will not happen...keep on dreaming!



The international community will force Philippine to surrender the murderers if Taiwan blockade Manila. Its time for Philippine to enter the 21st century and be a civilized country.

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## Bob Ong

Oh well this really made my day. 

Nyt


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## Khitan21

filipino_american said:


> First of ALL to begin with
> 
> What the heck was the TAIWANESE fishing vessel doing in the Philippine TERRITORIAL WATERS in the first place??? ANY GOOD EXCUSE???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the matter? YOU can't find a good excuse of why the PCG couldn't amicably take care of the one old fishermen? Can't find an excuse why your PCG aren't bloody murderous? Can't find an excuse why the PCG are so incompetent that they can't even board a simple fishing boat?
> 
> In the event when someone outside crosses into the islands under your jurisdiction, it is the Coast Guard job to take care of the matter amicably as possible. They could of fire warning shots out of harms way and then board the ship to arrest said person.
> 
> But that's not what your PCG did, did they? Oh no, they down right continuously fired shots even as the old fishermen was trying to flee, Your coast guards chased him down as he was fleeing and incidentally killed him.
> 
> And let us not forget this is ONE old fishermen, whose nationalistic views clouded his sense of safety, not 100, not 50, not even 5, but ONE UNARMED OLD MAN. This one old man probably, stubbornly crossed into the islands because he wanted to make a Implied statement to the west that China will not stand by and lose territory *OR* he genuinely accidentally crossed the overlapping area, I mean for godsakes he is an old man which is not too far fetch that he may suffer from memory problems which could be another factor of him crossing.
> 
> But either way, the islands are under Filipino jurisdiction, which means the Philippine government should of just arrested him. There is no excuse, this was a poor conduct by the the so called "trained" PCG.
> 
> And VIOLENTLY RAMMED? are you kidding me, there isn't even a single dent mark, only 45 bullet holes, and that's not even counting the missed shots ( I bet they are over 100 ). Shame on those trigger happy "coast guards".

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## Malaya

sdjd2013 said:


> Well, Ma is not a hot head. He is a poor diplomat for gambling away all his chips so fast. However, I believe the Taiwan investigation team has been rebuffed by the PH Dept. of Justice, which is obviously disingenuous.
> 
> 
> Ma's rating has nothing to do with anything, but distraction created by Aguino and the PH State Dept. However, that is not to say he doesn't want to please his people. If anyone is a hothead, it is probably the Taiwanese public at large, who usually are pretty hot-headed not understanding the bigger picture.
> 
> 
> This is nonsense. How can you say spraying of bullets (strafing) is unintentional? it was bordering an intentional act if not wantonly depraved. that's like throwing a bomb but misses the target and instead killing the guy standing next to the target. Can you claim unintentional then?
> 
> Taiwan is at a point of no return. I think it's time for the PH government to stop apologizing and start producing the video tape and other evidence to prove "Self-Defense" Also, allow a joint investigation with Taiwan to demonstrate to the world its innocence. That is what everyone wants. If the PCG did act in self-defense, then Taiwanese people surely would look like morons then.


How many times you need to be informed? Oh well this is getting nowhere.

Since the investigation is ongoing. Let us just wait for the official report on the incident and find out what really happened then we'll see where the blame lies. If it was the fault of our coastguard then they should be given appropriate punishment. I think your investigator team didn't go through proper channel. Well they have to go through the proper process to request a party to investigate. You don't just drop by and demand this. By the way the purpose of the investigation is not to pamper the media so don't expect YouTube to be a public court. 

As I said this is nothing but a pathetic attempt by Ma administration to bolster his failing popularity. As the article states, he is being pressured to react strongly by the Taiwanese opposition, which will milk this incident for all it's worth and by the Taiwanese media, who as we have seen are extremely prone to sensationalism and exaggeration, playing on the nationalism for ratings.

Well I hope this incident will pass soon and Taiwanese will off discrimination against Filipinos. Also measures can be taken by both sides to ensure no repetitions of this kind. Peace.


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## Malaya

*DOJ to Taiwan probers: Wait for NBI to finish its work*
May 18, 2013

*The Philippine Department of Justice on Saturday urged Taiwan investigators looking into an encounter in disputed waters that killed a Taiwanese fisherman last May 9 to wait for the National Bureau of Investigation to finish its probe.*

De Lima, in a statement posted on the DOJ Twitter account, also advised everyone concerned to avoid making "speculations" or "premature disclosure" of so-called findings, even from so-called "insider sources."

*"We advise everyone to just wait for the results of the NBI investigation and avoid making any speculations and/or premature disclosure of so-called 'findings' or info from so-called 'insider sources,"* she said.

For now, she said what the DOJ can assure everyone, including Taiwanese authorities and Taiwanese people, is that the "NBI is conducting a fair, thorough and expeditious probe to arrive at a just and credible conclusion."

Earlier Saturday, Taiwanese investigators claimed the Philippine Coast Guard murdered a fisherman aboard a Taiwanese fishing boat during the May 9 encounter.

The incident had prompted Taiwan to crack down on applications by Filipino workers and to issue a red warning alert discouraging travel to the Philippines.

But De Lima said the NBI is aware of its mandate to look into the incident, and is "perfectly cognizant of the seriousness and crucialness of its task."

De Lima also said that until the NBI concludes its investigation and submits its report, everyone, including the media,*" is urged to refrain from making statements relative to the probe that would further fuel or aggravate the prevailing tension between the Philippines and Taiwan."*

De Lima also said she has given strict orders to the NBI not to prematurely disclose any findings to anyone, including media.

*"We can only reveal the findings once the report is officially released," *she said.

She also said that while the NBI can "occasionally" share with media the steps and processes being undertaken in the course of the probe, it cannot disclose "findings, opinions or conclusions." &#8212; LBG, GMA News

DOJ to Taiwan probers: Wait for NBI to finish its work | News | GMA News Online


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## Shazhina

Malaya said:


> How many times you need to be informed? Oh well this is getting nowhere.
> 
> Since the investigation is ongoing. Let us just wait for the official report on the incident and find out what really happened then we'll see where the blame lies. If it was the fault of our coastguard then they should be given appropriate punishment. I think your investigator team didn't go through proper channel. Well they have to go through the proper process to request a party to investigate. You don't just drop by and demand this. By the way the purpose of the investigation is not to pamper the media so don't expect YouTube to be a public court.
> 
> As I said this is nothing but a pathetic attempt by Ma administration to bolster his failing popularity. As the article states, he is being pressured to react strongly by the Taiwanese opposition, which will milk this incident for all it's worth and by the Taiwanese media, who as we have seen are extremely prone to sensationalism and exaggeration, playing on the nationalism for ratings.
> 
> Well I hope this incident will pass soon and Taiwanese will off discrimination against Filipinos. Also measures can be taken by both sides to ensure no repetitions of this kind. Peace.



okay, I didn't rlly hear of this news until recently...and I know some filipinos are being mistreated in taiwan, but i think anger this time is understandable. Yes, ma is a weak president usually, in fact most dislike him, whether it is too friendly to china or too soft on issues, some call him as a joke a "pro-China, anti-Taiwan American" (his green card and everything XD) but this time, at least he acted with strength and decisiveness.

honestly, just APOLOGIZE more sincerely, and all should be made well. many filipinos I have met in USA are actually very friendly and open, so they cannot all be bad people, but your government has many problems, I think...


----------



## shuttler

Shazhina said:


> okay, I didn't rlly hear of this news until recently...and I know some filipinos are being mistreated in taiwan, but i think anger this time is understandable. Yes, ma is a weak president usually, in fact most dislike him, whether it is too friendly to china or too soft on issues, some call him as a joke a "pro-China, anti-Taiwan American" (his green card and everything XD) but this time, at least he acted with strength and decisiveness.
> 
> honestly, just APOLOGIZE more sincerely, and all should be made well. many filipinos I have met in USA are actually very friendly and open, so they cannot all be bad people, but your government has many problems, I think...



I think it was Chen SB's government which showed their most weakness trying to give away some of the islands to neighbours without the want for contention


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## Shazhina

shuttler said:


> I think it was Chen SB's government which showed their most weakness trying to give away some of the islands to neighbours without the want for contention



well, chen is not very popular either now, my family actually dislike him as well...and though I personally like Ma even less, he at least is strong on this issue. chen actually wanted to send soldiers for iraq war to help US, and that was kind of last straw for many taiwanese...

seriously, though, filipino government should treat taiwan as equal.

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## Malaya

Shazhina said:


> okay, I didn't rlly hear of this news until recently...and I know some filipinos are being mistreated in taiwan, but i think anger this time is understandable. Yes, ma is a weak president usually, in fact most dislike him, whether it is too friendly to china or too soft on issues, some call him as a joke a "pro-China, anti-Taiwan American" (his green card and everything XD) but this time, at least he acted with strength and decisiveness.
> 
> honestly, just APOLOGIZE more sincerely, and all should be made well. many filipinos I have met in USA are actually very friendly and open, so they cannot all be bad people, but your government has many problems, I think...


The envoy of the Philippines apologized. Our president apologized. The Philippines has done enough in taking steps to apologize even disregarding the fact that national territory was crossed. We have also conveyed sympathies to the fisherman's bereaved family and would provide financial assistance.

I hope Taiwan will re-calibrate their way of thinking and approach on the issue as their temper-driven actions might lead to far greater and long-term consequences. I know there are many good people in both sides, so it's time to heal the wounds and make peace. By learning from this incident hopefully measures can be taken so that such things do not happen again.


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## Shazhina

malaya, the main issue is whether it was "deliberate" or not so.

filipino president said "unintentional death" of taiwanese, but many disagree with that statement, do you understand? it is like a slap to the face along with half an apology.

i mean, don't get me wrong, i want relations to be good again, but first must resolve whether deliberate killing or not.

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## shuttler

Shazhina said:


> well, chen is not very popular either now, my family actually dislike him as well...and though I personally like Ma even less, he at least is strong on this issue. chen actually wanted to send soldiers for iraq war to help US, and that was kind of last straw for many taiwanese...
> 
> seriously, though, filipino government should treat taiwan as equal.



one bright side on this filippino created parody is Taiwan is united against external brutality! Whether you like it or not, Mainlanders are on your side!

No! Filippinos are not treating Taiwan on equal footing! Their president is a jerk who cannot face reality to render sincere apology to the President and People of Taiwan + adequate compensations and other valid terms that Taiwan has been demanding


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## shuttler

As far as the information that I ve collected so far:

1. the Taiwanese investigation team was turned away for not having co-operations from the filippino government which promised to provide support to the Taiwanese Investigation Team before they flied to the Philippines
2. The filippino reports use degrading terms to describe the Taiwanese fisherman
3. no evidence of "ramming" was reported from the Taiwanese investigator on the fishing boat
4. PSG used heavy weaponry against the unarmed fishermen in a small boat
5. Evidences available to the Taiwanese and media show that the case is a "cold blooded" murder in a disputed area on the high sea
6. So many days have passed, where is the video that the PCG claimed they have in possession

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## Malaya

Shazhina said:


> malaya, the main issue is whether it was "deliberate" or not so.
> 
> filipino president said "unintentional death" of taiwanese, but many disagree with that statement, do you understand? it is like a slap to the face along with half an apology.
> 
> i mean, don't get me wrong, i want relations to be good again, but first must resolve whether deliberate killing or not.


Let's not too emotional and try to look at the bigger picture. Ma inflamed the situation by calling it cold-blooded murder without first getting all the facts and also insists it happened inside their territory. 

No one denies that shots were fired. The bullet was not intended for the fisherman. If the intention of our coastguard was to kill and not the engine, I think 5-10 bullets would suffice. 

Anyway let's just wait for the investigation to finish. I just hope Taiwan is also not playing to the strings of China. PRC is agitating ROC.

Let me re-post this again.



> *DOJ to Taiwan probers: Wait for NBI to finish its work*
> May 18, 2013
> 
> *The Philippine Department of Justice on Saturday urged Taiwan investigators looking into an encounter in disputed waters that killed a Taiwanese fisherman last May 9 to wait for the National Bureau of Investigation to finish its probe.*
> 
> De Lima, in a statement posted on the DOJ Twitter account, also advised everyone concerned to avoid making "speculations" or "premature disclosure" of so-called findings, even from so-called "insider sources."
> 
> *"We advise everyone to just wait for the results of the NBI investigation and avoid making any speculations and/or premature disclosure of so-called 'findings' or info from so-called 'insider sources,"* she said.
> 
> For now, she said what the DOJ can assure everyone, including Taiwanese authorities and Taiwanese people, is that the "NBI is conducting a fair, thorough and expeditious probe to arrive at a just and credible conclusion."
> 
> Earlier Saturday, Taiwanese investigators claimed the Philippine Coast Guard murdered a fisherman aboard a Taiwanese fishing boat during the May 9 encounter.
> 
> The incident had prompted Taiwan to crack down on applications by Filipino workers and to issue a red warning alert discouraging travel to the Philippines.
> 
> But De Lima said the NBI is aware of its mandate to look into the incident, and is "perfectly cognizant of the seriousness and crucialness of its task."
> 
> De Lima also said that until the NBI concludes its investigation and submits its report, everyone, including the media,*" is urged to refrain from making statements relative to the probe that would further fuel or aggravate the prevailing tension between the Philippines and Taiwan."*
> 
> *De Lima also said she has given strict orders to the NBI not to prematurely disclose any findings to anyone, including media.*
> 
> *"We can only reveal the findings once the report is officially released," *she said.
> 
> She also said that while the NBI can "occasionally" share with media the steps and processes being undertaken in the course of the probe, it cannot disclose "findings, opinions or conclusions." &#8212; LBG, GMA News
> 
> DOJ to Taiwan probers: Wait for NBI to finish its work | News | GMA News Online

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## Shazhina

Malaya said:


> Let's not too emotional and try to look at the bigger picture. Ma inflamed the situation by calling it cold-blooded murder without first getting all the facts. Also, Taiwan insists it happened inside their territory. No one denies that shots were fired. The bullet was not intended for the fisherman. If the intention of our coastguard was to kill and not the engine, I think 5-10 bullets would suffice.
> 
> Anyway let's just wait for the investigation to finish. I just hope Taiwan is also not playing to the strings of China. PRC is agitating ROC.
> 
> Let me re-post this again.



maybe some react too extremely, but I honestly think this time at least it is not ma's fault. if taiwanese murdered filipino fisherman and few days later, said "sorry, just an accident", how would you feel? treat others with respect if you wish some yourself, that is all I can say.

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## Malaya

Shazhina said:


> maybe some react too extremely, but I honestly think this time at least it is not ma's fault. if taiwanese murdered filipino fisherman and few days later, said "sorry, just an accident", how would you feel? treat others with respect if you wish some yourself, that is all I can say.


Over-reaction is already getting out of hand. I understand your point but this incident was generated by rushed conclusion fueled by Taiwan media and politics. I truly believe it was not a murder. Rather, an accident. If it was murder, why not murder all four of them?


----------



## Malaya

Anyway I just hope this will end soon. 

Let time do the healing.

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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> yes, it's called disputed territory.



No its called criminal fishing its called being a bully its called disrespect a.k.a its criminal to do things to your neighbors waters naturally this would happen i sympathized with the family of the dead man but the fact remains what the hell are you people doing outside of your country's waters? from Vietnam, Japan, Palua and now to the Philippines you and your mainland brothers show no respect and no remorse to anyone you simply do not care enough to care you think your superior to all see what it got you now inncent people are paying the price for your peoples pigheadedness that poacher and the hundereds of filipinos now suffering in your demon country my prayers go to them please send them home wala kayo awa may araw rin kayo mga hayop kayo!


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## sdjd2013

W


Malaya said:


> The envoy of the Philippines apologized. Our president apologized. The Philippines has done enough in taking steps to apologize even disregarding the fact that national territory was crossed. We have also conveyed sympathies to the fisherman's bereaved family and would provide financial assistance.
> 
> I hope Taiwan will re-calibrate their way of thinking and approach on the issue as their temper-driven actions might lead to far greater and long-term consequences. I know there are many good people in both sides, so it's time to heal the wounds and make peace. By learning from this incident hopefully measures can be taken so that such things do not happen again.



Well said, BUT, we are beyond the apology stage. retaliation by refusing joint investigation is not conducive to peace or demonstrate good faith. If anything, it shows PH has something to hide, and most likely tampering with evidence right now. the only important thing is determine culpability. PH's own statement of innocence and "unintentional" sounds like hogwash, although its truth should not yet be ruled out until an investigation should be had.



Zero_wing said:


> No its called criminal fishing its called being a bully its called disrespect a.k.a its criminal to do things to your neighbors waters naturally this would happen i sympathized with the family of the dead man but the fact remains what the hell are you people doing outside of your country's waters? from Vietnam, Japan, Palua and now to the Philippines you and your mainland brothers show no respect and no remorse to anyone you simply do not care enough to care you think your superior to all see what it got you now inncent people are paying the price for your peoples pigheadedness that poacher and the hundereds of filipinos now suffering in your demon country my prayers go to them please send them home wala kayo awa may araw rin kayo mga hayop kayo!



people like you do not deserve a response. YOu should understand that under no circumstances can you kill an unarmed fisherman. That makes you no different from the pirates of smolia.



shuttler said:


> As far as the information that I ve collected so far:
> 
> 1. the Taiwanese investigation team was turned away for not having co-operations from the filippino government which promised to provide support to the Taiwanese Investigation Team before they flied to the Philippines
> 2. The filippino reports use degrading terms to describe the Taiwanese fisherman
> 3. no evidence of "ramming" was reported from the Taiwanese investigator on the fishing boat
> 4. PSG used heavy weaponry against the unarmed fishermen in a small boat
> 5. Evidences available to the Taiwanese and media show that the case is a "cold blooded" murder in a disputed area on the high sea
> 6. So many days have passed, where is the video that the PCG claimed they have in possession



EXACTLY, AND THE FACT AMERICAN STAYS NEUTRAL ON THIS IS ACTUALLY HELPING THE PH. FOR ONCE, THE U.S. SHOULD EQUALLY APPLY ITS PRINCIPLES NOTWITHSTANDING ITS GEO-POLITICAL INTERESTS.

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## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> Our coastguard followed the rules of engagement. Warnings shots were even fired. But your st-p-d poacher, Hung, didn't budge and tried to ram his ship. What do you expect our coastguard would do, eh? He got what he asked for. Of course, he'd be sh*t



FOR THAT REASON I WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE TO OPEN YOUR SKULL WITH A BAT



Bob Ong said:


> But before that will happen. I'll make sure to shoot you first on your head LOL
> 
> You don't even have a country of your own. You're just renegades. That's what you are. Thieves.



sure, you can try, except, oh no, you have no control over your own waters now.. poor poor manun


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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Intercept trips? how????? TAIWAN HAS NO CAPABILITY. China alone keeps your military busy right??? And TAIWAN will face the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY for sure. Taiwan is NOT a recognized STATE so better BEHAVE okay?
> 
> "Its time for Philippine to surrender the criminals inside its military" I guarantee you 300%, it won't happen...keep on dreaming!



Yea, I agree, cus PH is a country of thugs, pirates and hookers.



filipino_american said:


> Intercept trips? how????? TAIWAN HAS NO CAPABILITY. China alone keeps your military busy right??? And TAIWAN will face the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY for sure. Taiwan is NOT a recognized STATE so better BEHAVE okay?
> 
> "Its time for Philippine to surrender the criminals inside its military" I guarantee you 300%, it won't happen...keep on dreaming!



Yea, I agree, cus PH is a country of thugs, pirates and hookers.

no different from Singapore in 1965, before its founding.


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## faithfulguy

Malaya said:


> Anyway I just hope this will end soon.
> 
> Let time do the healing.



Time will only cut the wounds deeper.The only way for Philippine to hear the wound is to apologize sincerely, compensate and turn over the murderer. 

If the Philippine do not turn over the murderers, then Philippine is harboring murderers, which is a crime in itself. Taiwan should start blockading Manila and start arrest Filipino coast guards. Sink any Filipino ships that try to run the blockade. Then there will be healing as justice is served.

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## sdjd2013

canadian icehole said:


> Taipei-Manila Row: Incident does not surprise a veteran captain once detained in Philippines
> 
> Watching TV news reports about the ongoing diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines, veteran seafarer Chang Chang-lung (&#24373;&#26124;&#38534 said he was not at all surprised.
> 
> The trouble is due to the problem of overlapping maritime jurisdictions. If the issue is not resolved, tragedies such as this will occur again, said Chang, a seasoned sea captain from Pingtungs Hengchun Peninsula, who has had three perilous encounters with Philippine marine authorities.
> 
> The 58-year-old Chang has been a fisherman since his youth.
> 
> He recalled his first encounter with a Philippine vessel in 1991, when his ship sailed to about 20 degrees north latitude, a marine area Pingtung sailors call Toudiapsuan (&#38518;&#30090;&#23665 in Hoklo (commonly known as Taiwanese).
> 
> Chang said a Philippine naval vessel started approaching his ship at high speed, and he turned his ship around to get away.
> 
> However, our boat was too slow. *The Philippine vessel then started shooting at us with machine guns*. All of us hid inside the boats cabin, Chang said. When we got back home, we counted more than *30 bullet holes* in the boat.
> 
> After that, Chang said he spent more than NT$3 million (US$100,370) to purchase a new fishing boat with a bigger engine.
> 
> However, in 1997, in the same stretch of water, we were chased by Philippine naval ships and pursued by a military helicopter. Luckily we managed to escape without much damage [to the boat], the captain said.
> 
> A third encounter came in 2001, which he described as a terrible nightmare for him and his crew.
> 
> Chang said they had just started to fish early in the morning and did not notice armed men approaching their boat in sampans. The men came aboard to search the boat.
> 
> They had guns, so we could not put up a fight, Chang said.
> 
> *They had a dynamite stick with them and planted it in our cabin as false evidence. We were accused of fishing illegally using dynamite, even though we have not caught anything yet*, Chang said.
> 
> His ship and crew were detained and taken to the port of Aparri, at the northern tip of Luzon Island.
> 
> Chang said they were put under house arrest for six months and the Philippine authorities demanded US$100,000 for their release.
> 
> They were only released to board a flight to escape back to Taiwan after paying NT$600,000 (US$19,960) in bribes to Philippine officials, through the assistance of well-connected Chinese Filipinos, Chang said.
> 
> Along with my confiscated ship and the money spent on bribes during our six months in detention, this accidental journey cost me about NT$5 million, he added.
> 
> After hearing of his experience, the fishermen of Hengchun Peninsula were scared and nobody dared go into that stretch of water again, he said.
> 
> Since then, only fishermen from Donggang [&#26481;&#28207;, another Pingtung port to the northwest of Hengchun] would go there, but they are gambling with their lives, Chang said.
> 
> The Philippine navy always gives us trouble. They have about 17 islands in that stretch of marine territory and they have five different naval units stationed around there, he said.
> 
> Even with a signed agreement on fishing around one of the islands, Philippine naval units from the other islands would still give us trouble. Filipino fishermen would report Taiwanese fishing boats position to their naval units. It was impossible to safeguard ourselves over there, Chang added.
> 
> He also denounced the *behavior of Filipino seamen*, which he *described as atrocious.*
> 
> *"When these navy sailors and officers came aboard our boat, they would loot almost everything we had, from raincoats and videotapes to food, tissues and other materials," Chang said.
> 
> "If we were lucky, we were allowed to leave and go home, otherwise they would plant evidence against us and confiscate our boat. They would strip the boats engine and all the usable instruments. Then they would demand that we pay a heavy fine," he added.*
> 
> Chang recalled elderly fishermen advising them to keep about NT$500,000 in cash on board, so if their boat was detained by Philippine seamen, giving them the cash usually could ensure the crews safety and the boats release.
> 
> "However, the overlapping economic exclusion zones of Taiwan and the Philippines are troublesome. If our own government does not take strong action to resolve the matter, Taiwanese fishermen may have to give up this large fishing area. Or else, the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 27 incident will not be the last," Chang said.



This is not the first and won't be the last incident

unless both governments enter into an agreement, and if you think an agreement can only be entered in with china, you are just ignoring reality

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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> W
> 
> Well said, BUT, we are beyond the apology stage. retaliation by refusing joint investigation is not conducive to peace or demonstrate good faith. If anything, it shows PH has something to hide, and most likely tampering with evidence right now. the only important thing is determine culpability. PH's own statement of innocence and "unintentional" sounds like hogwash, although its truth should not yet be ruled out until an investigation should be had.
> 
> 
> 
> people like you do not deserve a response. YOu should understand that under no circumstances can you kill an unarmed fisherman. That makes you no different from the pirates of smolia.
> 
> 
> 
> EXACTLY, AND THE FACT AMERICAN STAYS NEUTRAL ON THIS IS ACTUALLY HELPING THE PH. FOR ONCE, THE U.S. SHOULD EQUALLY APPLY ITS PRINCIPLES NOTWITHSTANDING ITS GEO-POLITICAL INTERESTS.



Oh please who's uncivilized now?

The Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO) confirmed reports that some overseas Filipino workers (OFW) in Taiwan were physically assaulted amid rising tensions after the shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters by Philippine coast guards.

However, MECO Chairman Amadeo Perez clarified that these are isolated incidents in the two fisherman districts of Pingtung and Kaohsiung, according to GMA Network's "Saksi" newscast on Friday.

The violence against Filipinos in Taiwan stemmed from the alleged shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman suspected of poaching on May 9, 2013 by the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) in the Batanes channel.

One Filipino claimed that he was ganged up by a dozen Taiwanese gangsters armed with wooden bats.

&#8220;May dumating na mga ganster naka-motor. Anim po [ang motor at] may mga sakay bawat [motor na] dalawang katao,&#8221; he recalled.

He said that he was lucky to have not sustained a fatal wound during the attack.

&#8220;Pauwi na po ako may umikot sakin kaagad. Alam ko na titirahin ako [kaya] nasalag ko po. Kung di ko po nasalag sa ulo ang tama ko,&#8221; he said.

Perez said that the gangsters were Taiwanese juvenile delinquents who target other nationalities including Filipinos, Vietnamese and Indonesians.

&#8220;Pero ngayon naka-concentrate sila sa pilipino,&#8221; Perez said adding that the tension between the two countries may have caused the gangster to single out Filipinos.

There was also an OFW who reported that small rocks were hurled at her while she was riding a scooter bike.

Denied service

Some Filipinos claimed they are being denied service in markets where Taiwanese refuse to sell them food while criticizing their nationality.

In Pingtung, Taiwanese rallyists burned the Philippine flag and an effigy of Philippine President Noynoy Aquino III to show their protest.

Amid the violence and rising tension, Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou called on his countrymen for the proper treatment of Filipinos.

Apology demanded

Taiwan demands an apology from the Philippine government and rejected two personal envoys sent by Aquino to express the country's regret and sorrow.

&#8220;[Ang gusto nila] magsalita siya [Aquino] at sumulat ng formal letter of apology
which cannot be done because of protocol,&#8221; Perez explained.

The Philippine recognizes Taiwan as a province of China due to the one-China policy.

Paralyzed economy

Perez said in an interview with Saksi's Kara David that Taiwan's economy may be paralyzed if they decide to relieve OFWs from their work sector.

&#8220;Pag inalis nila yung Pilipino worker it will take them months or even years to train new workers,&#8221; Perez said adding &#8220;Mapaparalyze ang negosyo nila.&#8221;

There are around 85,000 OFWs working in Taiwan 72 percent of which are in the manufacturing industry according to Labor Secretary Rosalinda Baldoz.

Baldoz said that there are around 2,500 Filipinos deployed monthly to Taiwan 

may araw rin kayo mga hayop!


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## sdjd2013

Malaya said:


> How many times you need to be informed? Oh well this is getting nowhere.
> 
> Since the investigation is ongoing. Let us just wait for the official report on the incident and find out what really happened then we'll see where the blame lies. If it was the fault of our coastguard then they should be given appropriate punishment. I think your investigator team didn't go through proper channel. Well they have to go through the proper process to request a party to investigate. You don't just drop by and demand this. By the way the purpose of the investigation is not to pamper the media so don't expect YouTube to be a public court.
> 
> As I said this is nothing but a pathetic attempt by Ma administration to bolster his failing popularity. As the article states, he is being pressured to react strongly by the Taiwanese opposition, which will milk this incident for all it's worth and by the Taiwanese media, who as we have seen are extremely prone to sensationalism and exaggeration, playing on the nationalism for ratings.
> 
> Well I hope this incident will pass soon and Taiwanese will off discrimination against Filipinos. Also measures can be taken by both sides to ensure no repetitions of this kind. Peace.



Just one thing, "proper channels"? are you kidding me? PH first invited a joint investigation, only to revoke the invitation when investigators arrived. So, your invitation is really no invitation at all.


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## Zero_wing

If you really made those request just like when ma said he not against filipinos and taewanese made a little witch hunt for filipinos afterwards what bunch of hypocrites


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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> If you really made those request just like when ma said he not against filipinos and taewanese made a little witch hunt for filipinos afterwards what bunch of hypocrites



Do you know how hard it is to control each and every citizen of your country? the beating of innocent Filipinos in Taiwan was wrong, but that was not the intention of the Taiwanese government, and the government has put such incidents on high alert, making prosecution of such mob actions a high priority.

oh, I forgot zero wing is a mindless minion who cannot be reasoned. Why do I even bother to respond to you.

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## filipino_american

faithfulguy said:


> The international community will force Philippine to surrender the murderers if Taiwan blockade Manila. Its time for Philippine to enter the 21st century and be a civilized country.



Good luck with that


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## sdjd2013

Shazhina said:


> malaya, the main issue is whether it was "deliberate" or not so.
> 
> filipino president said "unintentional death" of taiwanese, but many disagree with that statement, do you understand? it is like a slap to the face along with half an apology.
> 
> i mean, don't get me wrong, i want relations to be good again, but first must resolve whether deliberate killing or not.



Not only that, the word "UNINTENTIONAL" was used even BEFORE they began the investigation. So, who is predisposed to making conclusory statements before the finding of facts?

and, the words "FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE" is a slap in the face to the family of the dead fisherman, as though they are pan handlers asking for a hand out.


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## sdjd2013

But, of course the U.S. has no time for niceties, b/c it is busy with its internal problems, so it doesn't want to hear bickering from both sides. 

Therefore, if Taiwan wants to get on the good graces of the U.S., then it should tone down. But, if Ma doesn't care what the U.S. thinks, then he should employ any means, including subterfuge and arm forces, to accomplish his goals. This is a test for Ma's intelligence and temperament. Let's see what a Harvard Grad is really made of.

However, so far Ma has not demonstrated any cunningness, but only inexperience with this kind of scenarios.


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## filipino_american

Khitan21 said:


> filipino_american said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of ALL to begin with
> 
> What the heck was the TAIWANESE fishing vessel doing in the Philippine TERRITORIAL WATERS in the first place??? ANY GOOD EXCUSE???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the matter? YOU can't find a good excuse of why the PCG couldn't amicably take care of the one old fishermen? Can't find an excuse why your PCG aren't bloody murderous? Can't find an excuse why the PCG are so incompetent that they can't even board a simple fishing boat?
> 
> In the event when someone outside crosses into the islands under your jurisdiction, it is the Coast Guard job to take care of the matter amicably as possible. They could of fire warning shots out of harms way and then board the ship to arrest said person.
> 
> But that's not what your PCG did, did they? Oh no, they down right continuously fired shots even as the old fishermen was trying to flee, Your coast guards chased him down as he was fleeing and incidentally killed him.
> 
> And let us not forget this is ONE old fishermen, whose nationalistic views clouded his sense of safety, not 100, not 50, not even 5, but ONE UNARMED OLD MAN. This one old man probably, stubbornly crossed into the islands because he wanted to make a Implied statement to the west that China will not stand by and lose territory *OR* he genuinely accidentally crossed the overlapping area, I mean for godsakes he is an old man which is not too far fetch that he may suffer from memory problems which could be another factor of him crossing.
> 
> But either way, the islands are under Filipino jurisdiction, which means the Philippine government should of just arrested him. There is no excuse, this was a poor conduct by the the so called "trained" PCG.
> 
> And VIOLENTLY RAMMED? are you kidding me, there isn't even a single dent mark, only 45 bullet holes, and that's not even counting the missed shots ( I bet they are over 100 ). Shame on those trigger happy "coast guards".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The Taiwanese vessel REFUSED to STOP ILLEGAL FISHING in the Philippine EXCLUSIVE ZONE when they were found by the BFAR.
> 
> 2. The Taiwanese vessel ignored "MULTIPLE" WARNING SHOTS from the BFAR
> 
> 3. The Taiwanese vessel ignored warning through PA system from the BFAR
> 
> 4. The Taiwanese vessel resisted to stop and engaged the BFAR in a high-speed sea chase
> 
> 5. The Taiwanese vessel tried to RAM the BFAR boat.
> 
> The CHASING CAN JUSTIFY the SHOOTING alone , but when they tried to "RAM" the BFAR boat, that was the BEST JUSTIFIED REASON FOR THE SHOOTING
> 
> I've seen many cases like this in AMERICA..... If you DO NOT STOP once the cops have notified you, YOU GET SHOT. What more if you TRY TO KILL A COP??? Would you expect them to do nothing???? This is NOT NEW anymore and TAIWAN IS JUST OVER REACTING
> 
> Just admit it TAIWAN, swallow your PRIDE. TELL THE WHOLE WORLD THAT YOUR SHIP WAS IN THE PHILIPPINE WATERS. DON'T YOU WONDER WHY AMERICA WONT CONDEMN THE PHILIPPINES? BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. NUFF SAID
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sdjd2013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, of course the U.S. has no time for niceties, b/c it is busy with its internal problems, so it doesn't want to hear bickering from both sides.
> 
> Therefore, if Taiwan wants to get on the good graces of the U.S., then it should tone down. But, if Ma doesn't care what the U.S. thinks, then he should employ any means, including subterfuge and arm forces, to accomplish his goals. This is a test for Ma's intelligence and temperament. Let's see what a Harvard Grad is really made of.
> 
> However, so far Ma has not demonstrated any cunningness, but only inexperience with this kind of scenarios.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the Nth time, the US DEPARTMENT OF STATE again declines to condemn Manila over shooting
> 
> Despite strong pressure and repeated efforts, the US has again declined to issue an outright condemnation of the Philippines for shooting a Taiwanese fisherman.
> 
> However, US Department of State spokesperson Jennifer Psaki has confirmed that Washington is now trying to play a role in calming the growing crisis.
> 
> &#8220;We regret the tragic death of a Taiwan fishing boat master during the May 9 confrontation at sea with a Philippine patrol vessel,&#8221; Psaki said on Monday.
> 
> &#8220;The United States has been in touch with both the Philippine government and the Taiwan authorities regarding the incident,&#8221; she said.
> 
> Psaki said that the US welcomed the Philippine government&#8217;s pledge to conduct a &#8220;full and transparent&#8221; investigation.
> 
> While the State Department has refused to give details, sources with knowledge of the situation told the Taipei Times that US diplomats are currently talking to both sides and strongly urging caution.
> 
> Asked if the US was worried about a possible escalation, Psaki said: &#8220;We continue to urge all parties, in any scenario, to ensure maritime safety and to refrain from provocative actions.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;The Philippine government is going to be conducting an investigation and they will be working with the Taiwan authorities to establish what happened in this case,&#8221; she said.
> 
> Pressed to condemn the Philippine authorities for firing on the Taiwanese boat, Psaki appeared to equivocate.
> 
> She was asked to explain what actions Taiwan had taken that the US was concerned about when only one side &#8212; the Philippines &#8212; had actually done any shooting.
> 
> &#8220;When you&#8217;re warning both sides, you&#8217;re giving an equivalency. What is the Taiwanese action that you&#8217;re concerned about?&#8221; Psaki was asked.
> 
> &#8220;The Philippine government is looking into this case &#8212; I don&#8217;t want to get ahead of their process of investigating what happened,&#8221; she said.
> 
> At a regular daily press briefing, Psaki was again pressured to be more specific.
> 
> &#8220;The Taiwanese fisherman was unarmed. It&#8217;s a fishing boat &#8212; small compared to the government vessel that the Filipinos had. When you say confrontation, only one side was shooting the other, using a machine gun. Fifty-nine bullet holes were found in that small boat. I want you to comment on the fact that someone opened fire in the South China Sea,&#8221; a reporter said.
> 
> Psaki said that she was just making a broad point that both sides should refrain from provocative actions.
> 
> &#8220;I&#8217;m not going to speculate on this specific case,&#8221; she said.
> 
> Asked where, in the US&#8217; view, the shooting took place, Psaki said: &#8220;The precise location of the incident is not yet clear, although it appears the incident took place in or near disputed waters, where both claim fishing rights.&#8221;
> 
> Psaki said that the US regretted the &#8220;tragic death&#8221; and encouraged &#8220;peaceful negotiation and peaceful resolution.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;When you see people doing things that run directly counter to behavior that would lead to stability, are you going to stand up and point that out, and hold these governments to account? You&#8217;re holding the victimizer and the victim to equal account, so it doesn&#8217;t seem to match,&#8221; the reporter said.
> 
> Psaki replied: &#8220;There will be an investigation run by the Philippine government into what happened here. I don&#8217;t think that is holding both sides to the same account.&#8221;
> 
> In a final effort the reporter asked: &#8220;Would you condemn the killing of an innocent fisherman, unarmed, in this incident? Or would you condone that?&#8221;
Click to expand...

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## sdjd2013

sdjd2013 said:


> DON'T YOU THINK THAT IS SELF-SERVING? WHY SHOULD ANY ONE BELIEVE WHAT THAT PCG SAID AT FACE VALUE? GIVEN HE IS TRYING TO EXONERATE HIMSELF? DO YOU TAKE EVERYONE AS A FOOL?



YOU SHOULD BE A SPOKESMAN FOR NORTH KOREA, CUS YOU SEEM TO ENJOY REPRESENTING VIOLENCE AND THUGARY - TO BOB ONG


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## filipino_american

Shazhina said:


> malaya, the main issue is whether it was "deliberate" or not so.
> 
> filipino president said "unintentional death" of taiwanese, but many disagree with that statement, do you understand? it is like a slap to the face along with half an apology.
> 
> i mean, don't get me wrong, i want relations to be good again, but first must resolve whether deliberate killing or not.



Oh c'mon, the Philippines has already APOLOGIZED.

The Taiwanese President is hyping the incident to GET his RATINGS UP!

The real true winner here is CHINA.

Again,the Philippines has already apologized.

CHINA'S TRAP IS HERE.........OPEN YOUR EYES.



shuttler said:


> one bright side on this filippino created parody is Taiwan is united against external brutality! Whether you like it or not, Mainlanders are on your side!
> 
> No! Filippinos are not treating Taiwan on equal footing! Their president is a jerk who cannot face reality to render sincere apology to the President and People of Taiwan + adequate compensations and other valid terms that Taiwan has been demanding



Whether you like it or not.

Taiwan will chose the Philippines over COMMUNIST CHINA in the end.

And I guarantee that 400%.


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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Oh c'mon, the Philippines has already APOLOGIZED.
> 
> The Taiwanese President is hyping the incident to GET his RATINGS UP!
> 
> The real true winner here is CHINA.
> 
> Again,the Philippines has already apologized.
> 
> CHINA'S TRAP IS HERE.........OPEN YOUR EYES.
> 
> 
> 
> Whether you like it or not.
> 
> Taiwan will chose the Philippines over COMMUNIST CHINA in the end.
> 
> And I guarantee that 400%.



You are a big talker with no thing behind you, like writing a rubber check, maybe that is what you do, too.

The article your provided is ancient. the U.S. State Dept. has not yet condemned, but at least two law makers have, so that's already 2:0, if that is the game you are playing. 

Also, the article confirms the U.S.' impatience towards bickering, and reaffirms my postulation that Ma should either cool down, or go forward regardless of what the U.S. says, and it seems he is at a point of no return already, so I'd say go forward if I were him. 

Also, whatever happened to the "expediency" part of the investigation promised by Aguino? will he claim "expediency" by Filipino timeframe is slower than Taiwanese standard?


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## filipino_american

Shazhina said:


> maybe some react too extremely, but I honestly think this time at least it is not ma's fault. if taiwanese murdered filipino fisherman and few days later, said "sorry, just an accident", how would you feel? treat others with respect if you wish some yourself, that is all I can say.



Enough is enough....the APOLOGY HAS BEEN MADE.

I want you to answer this QUESTIONS from YOUR HEART:

1. Do you think the Philippines intentionally KILLED the Taiwanese Fisherman? (again answer from your heart, do not let emotions overcome you)

2. Do you think the Philippine Government is AGAINST TAIWAN?


Before the incident, TAIWAN and the Philippines HAD A SOLID Strong Relationship.

The Philippines supported Taiwan during the CHINESE CIVIL WAR

The Philippines is one of the FEW COUNTRIES that maintains STRONG diplomatic ties with TAIWAN.

During the TAIWAN STRAIT CRISIS, FILIPINO TROOPS were READY to fight side by side with the US in DEFENSE of TAIWAN

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## sdjd2013

China is ready to pounce on the South China Seas. That got you worried, right? so PH had better play fair and come clean.

If Ma were smart, he would go forward with his plans and let China answer for his actions under the "ONE CHINA" policy.

No, I don't think PH treats Taiwan as an enemy, only disdain, like mud on their feet. Filipinos keep calling Taiwanese cowards for retreating from China, not even being fair to criticism

That said, I think it's good that Taiwan flexes muscles to the Filipinos to show who is better prepared to defend democracy in Asia


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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> You are a big talker with no thing behind you, like writing a rubber check, maybe that is what you do, too.
> 
> The article your provided is ancient. the U.S. State Dept. has not yet condemned, but at least two law makers have, so that's already 2:0, if that is the game you are playing.
> 
> Also, the article confirms the U.S.' impatience towards bickering, and reaffirms my postulation that Ma should either cool down, or go forward regardless of what the U.S. says, and it seems he is at a point of no return already, so I'd say go forward if I were him.
> 
> Also, whatever happened to the "expediency" part of the investigation promised by Aguino? will he claim "expediency" by Filipino timeframe is slower than Taiwanese standard?



Whether the US has condemned the Philippines or NOT. The Apology has been made.

The Philippines has already EXTENDED its arms for the NORMALIZATION of relationship.

Again, let me warn you, the BIG HAWK COMMIE CHINA is watching and is carefully taking advantage.

The US-SKOREA-JAPAN-TAIWAN-PHILIPPINES-THAILAND-INDONESIA-SINGAPORE-AUSTRALIA ALLIANCE must be maintained.

Otherwise, the DEMOCRATIC ASIAN ALLIES will fall under CHINA.


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> China is ready to pounce on the South China Seas. That got you worried, right? so PH had better play fair and come clean.
> 
> If Ma were smart, he would go forward with his plans and let China answer for his actions under the "ONE CHINA" policy.
> 
> No, I don't think PH treats Taiwan as an enemy, only disdain, like mud on their feet. Filipinos keep calling Taiwanese cowards for retreating from China, not even being fair to criticism



Not ONLY the Philippines BUT also TAIWAN and the rest of the gang.

But CHINA has been EYEING Taiwan more than the SCS Islands. 

the TW-PH spat should end soon, otherwise the Communists will take advantage of the situation.


----------



## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> China is ready to pounce on the South China Seas. That got you worried, right? so PH had better play fair and come clean.
> 
> If Ma were smart, he would go forward with his plans and let China answer for his actions under the "ONE CHINA" policy.
> 
> No, I don't think PH treats Taiwan as an enemy, only disdain, like mud on their feet. Filipinos keep calling Taiwanese cowards for retreating from China, not even being fair to criticism
> 
> That said, I think it's good that Taiwan flexes muscles to the Filipinos to show who is better prepared to defend democracy in Asia



Do not generalize, NOT ALL FILIPINO thinks that way, the FILIPINOS shed their tears when CHINA fell under the communists.

Filipino troops were even prepared to be deployed in Taiwan during the STRAIT CRISIS.

The Philippines was also willing to share its airfields and ports to the americans so that they can refuel and restock items during the crisis knowing that CHINA might retaliate and bomb the Philippines too.

The Filipinos are not asking for your "THANKS" or recognition. But let me tell you the truth, some Filipinos were offended when TAIWAN OVER REACTED and HYPED the situation ESPECIALLY THE ARMED FORCES of the Philippines as saving TAIWAN is one of the MAJOR objectives of the PH-US MILITARY EXERCISES.

Sometimes people only SEE the NEGATIVE attributions, BUT THEY NEVER SEE the POSITIVE side.

Well, yes technically TAIWAN is MILITARILY Stronger than the Philippines, but that doesnt mean TAIWAN can do it all. Also true with the Philippines, it need its allies, even if the PHILIPPINES was a strong nation, still no man is an island.

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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Do not generalize, NOT ALL FILIPINO thinks that way, the FILIPINOS shed their tears when CHINA fell under the communists.
> 
> Filipino troops were even prepared to be deployed in Taiwan during the STRAIT CRISIS.
> 
> The Philippines was also willing to share its airfields and ports to the americans so that they can refuel and restock items during the crisis knowing that CHINA might retaliate and bomb the Philippines too.
> 
> The Filipinos are not asking for your "THANKS" or recognition. But let me tell you the truth, some Filipinos were offended when TAIWAN OVER REACTED and HYPED the situation ESPECIALLY THE ARMED FORCES of the Philippines as saving TAIWAN is one of the MAJOR objectives of the PH-US MILITARY EXERCISES.
> 
> Sometimes people only SEE the NEGATIVE attributions, BUT THEY NEVER SEE the POSITIVE side.
> 
> Well, yes technically TAIWAN is MILITARILY Stronger than the Philippines, but that doesnt mean TAIWAN can do it all. Also true with the Philippines, it need its allies, even if the PHILIPPINES was a strong nation, still no man is an island.



Thank you for that vote of confidence. Now, both sides should learn the truth as soon as possible to quail this nagging conflict, b/c North Korea is still, technically, at war with the south, and the north just fired three mid-range missiles today.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> Do you know how hard it is to control each and every citizen of your country? the beating of innocent Filipinos in Taiwan was wrong, but that was not the intention of the Taiwanese government, and the government has put such incidents on high alert, making prosecution of such mob actions a high priority.
> 
> oh, I forgot zero wing is a mindless minion who cannot be reasoned. Why do I even bother to respond to you.



Wow well your just told me your moron so i just go with that your moron then doese people are just people doing your jobs because your simply to stupid and lazy to them now your hurting them and your even more stupider leader MAtopac sa utak calls for come and friendship ya right why call to condemn the Philippines while its people are responsible right? well that's what happen here and you have the nerve to call us uncivilized and criminals while you already violated our rights as country by constantly stealing from us and giving us your trash then you have the nerve to hurt our people doing your stupid jobs your just lucky were weak and nice because if we the demons we say we are would whip the floor with your arrogant face! and using your blood as floor wax too bad your liers because as of now no taewanese have be hurt or killed here proving once again this demonizing and bullying campaign to cover your blunders and hurt the philippines simply because you can!


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## sdjd2013

I would also urge the Taiwan news media to broaden its horizon to include other nations in the region, not just Taiwan all the time.



Zero_wing said:


> Wow well your just told me your moron so i just go with that your moron then doese people are just people doing your jobs because your simply to stupid and lazy to them now your hurting them and your even more stupider leader MAtopac sa utak calls for come and friendship ya right why call to condemn the Philippines while its people are responsible right? well that's what happen here and you have the nerve to call us uncivilized and criminals while you already violated our rights as country by constantly stealing from us and giving us your trash then you have the nerve to hurt our people doing your stupid jobs your just lucky were weak and nice because if we the demons we say we are would whip the floor with your arrogant face! and using your blood as floor wax too bad your liers because as of now no taewanese have be hurt or killed here proving once again this demonizing and bullying campaign to cover your blunders and hurt the philippines simply because you can!



This kind of talk will not resolve anything. Sorry, buddy.. no response from me.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> I would also urge the Taiwan news media to broaden its horizon to include other nations in the region, not just Taiwan all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of talk will not resolve anything. Sorry, buddy.. no response from me.



And yet your still replying as if started this it was MAtopac who started this witch hunt to my poor country and holding him and your kind responsible for that criminal act pirates! may araw rin kayo mga hayop!


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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> Thank you for that vote of confidence. Now, both sides should learn the truth as soon as possible to quail this nagging conflict, b/c North Korea is still, technically, at war with the south, and the north just fired three mid-range missiles today.



I am encouraging the Taiwanese President to stop HYPING the situation. The Philippines is keeping it low, like what they did to the Malaysia-PH Sabah conflict recently. The PH dont see TAIWAN and MALAYSIA as threats. The Philippines is concentrating on CHINA.

I am also encouraging TAIWAN not to proceed with their NAVAL drills near the PH-TAIWAN border as the PHILIPPINES is not really a threat, but FOCUS ON THE REAL THREAT which is CHINA. The first time I heard about the tawainese shooting, I KNEW right away it WAS UNINTENTIONAL given that PH HAS nothing against TAIWAN.

The Philippines, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, and the United States held their SEACAT Military Exercise (Southeast Asia Cooperation and Training ) last year.

PH and Australia held their BILATERAL NAVAL DRILL just couple of months ago.

PH and Japan intensified their NAVAL cooperation. Japan warships docked in MANILA last year. Japan is providing 12 Coast guard boats to the Philippines

South Korea is providing the PH 12 super sonic jet fighters and 2 Modern Frigates.

PH-US continues their military exercises. The US is training the PH how to operate their MAJOR AIR Crafts like the F-16. US jet fighters are seen in every PH airfields training Filipinos constantly.

Japanese and South Korean warships joined with the USS Nimitz carrier strike group this week to conduct a combined search-and-rescue exercise and other maneuvers in the East China Sea.

All of these events are aimed at CHINA and N.Korea the real threats of ASIA.

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## filipino_american

Zero_wing said:


> Wow well your just told me your moron so i just go with that your moron then doese people are just people doing your jobs because your simply to stupid and lazy to them now your hurting them and your even more stupider leader MAtopac sa utak calls for come and friendship ya right why call to condemn the Philippines while its people are responsible right? well that's what happen here and you have the nerve to call us uncivilized and criminals while you already violated our rights as country by constantly stealing from us and giving us your trash then you have the nerve to hurt our people doing your stupid jobs your just lucky were weak and nice because if we the demons we say we are would whip the floor with your arrogant face! and using your blood as floor wax too bad your liers because as of now no taewanese have be hurt or killed here proving once again this demonizing and bullying campaign to cover your blunders and hurt the philippines simply because you can!




We should focus on mending the conflict between PH and TW. Taiwan is not really a threat to the PH, the Taiwanese people were just being NATIONALISTIC. You can't blame them sometimes, especially their president hyped up the incident coz I think he needs to boost up his very low ratings.

TW and PH should cooperate more in containing COMMUNIST CHINA.

China is taking advantage of the situation and we are openly allowing the communists in doing so.

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## sdjd2013

PH waiting for Taiwan anger to cool | ABS-CBN News

check out a PH news article. Maybe the Taiwan news media should reciprocate the impartiality and neutral tone.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/anc/02/20/13/pnoy-furious-over-sabah-incident-report

PH is more preoccupied with Sabah, which they consider a problem more pressing and closer to home


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## Zero_wing

Well that's media for you but i would favor a total removal of all Filipinos from your gutter of place so you can stop hunting them like dogs you people are uncivilized pirates you can't hurt us so you hurt our countrymen may araw rin kayo mga hayop!


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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> Well that's media for you but i would favor a total removal of all Filipinos from your gutter of place so you can stop hunting them like dogs you people are uncivilized pirates you can't hurt us so you hurt our countrymen may araw rin kayo mga hayop!



despite your trash talk, I will be patient with you, b/c I think there are reasonable and intelligent Filipinos. If you read the article to the end, you will see there was ONE reported incident of beating by a mob/ gang of kids. It was an isolated incident, and Ma has promised to keep the rest safe. Unlike leaders of many third-world countries, president Ma is not a capricious liar.


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## sdjd2013

By the way, I have sent emails to the state dept. of Taiwan urging them to cool down and to move pass the "apology" stage. I would ask you to do the same to your state depat. asking them to open their investigation files and let Taiwan join in on the investigation forthwith without ado.


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## faithfulguy

sdjd2013 said:


> By the way, I have sent emails to the state dept. of Taiwan urging them to cool down and to move pass the "apology" stage. I would ask you to do the same to your state depat. asking them to open their investigation files and let Taiwan join in on the investigation forthwith without ado.



The period of waiting for apology is over. Its time to use the military to enforce a blockade. The Pinoy pirates need to be handed over to Taiwan and court martialed.


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## filipino_american

faithfulguy said:


> The period of waiting for apology is over. Its time to use the military to enforce a blockade. The Pinoy pirates need to be handed over to Taiwan and court martialed.



The apology has been made.

Also, Taiwan should remember that the main reason for the military assistance given by the US to them is for SELF DEFENSE AGAINST CHINA . Using American military warfare  against a US Defense Treaty Ally is something Taiwan should think about very thoroughly, just saying.

PH and TW should fix their differences ASAP as the PH is not a threat to TAIWAN but an ALLY ever since.


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## faithfulguy

filipino_american said:


> The apology has been made.
> 
> Also, Taiwan should remember that the main reason for the military assistance given by the US to them is for SELF DEFENSE AGAINST CHINA . Using American military warfare  against a US Defense Treaty Ally is something Taiwan should think about very thoroughly, just saying.
> 
> PH and TW should fix their differences ASAP as the PH is not a threat to TAIWAN but an ALLY ever since.



Its time for Filipino gov to fully apologize, compensate and turn over the criminal coast guard if it wants to remain an ally. Otherwise, Philippine is worse than gov of China as Chinese coast guards are not murdering Taiwanese fisherman. I don't recall the last time China murder any Taiwanese fisherman. Can anyone recall?

As this is the case, Philippines need to compensate.


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## filipino_american

faithfulguy said:


> Its time for Filipino gov to fully apologize, compensate and turn over the criminal coast guard if it wants to remain an ally. Otherwise, Philippine is worse than gov of China as Chinese coast guards are not murdering Taiwanese fisherman. I don't recall the last time China murder any Taiwanese fisherman. Can anyone recall?
> 
> As this is the case, Philippines need to compensate.



To answer your question, any Taiwanese would not dare go NEAR any CHINESE controlled lands. Also, China would not dare kill any Taiwanese as the MAINLAND'S goal is to get the heart of the Taiwanese people to make the reunification easier. JUST TELLING THE REALITY. Also, please don't forget about the Taiwan Strait Crisis where the Communists attacked Taiwan.

Also, the incident happened within the Philippines Area of Jurisdiction and any geographer would AGREE to that. Given that, legally, the Philippines HAS the SOLE right to try the PCG because it happened within their area of responsibility.

Also, the Philippines CANNOT just turn over anyone of them without proper trial. The investigation is still on going and I don't care if it takes them a month (just my opinion) because I believe they NEED to scrutinize every single data as the case is VERY SENSITIVE. 

Technically, the intruders also are obligated to PAY FINE to the Filipino people for ILLEGALLY STEALING resources that were EXCLUSIVELY for the FILIPINOS. The CHASE took about 4 HOURS because the INTRUDERS were REALLY DEEP inside the Philippine Waters. The Intruders were not in the Philippine EEZ but were in the TERRITORIAL WATERS. The GOVERNMENT dont mention about this BECAUSE they want to cool down the incident.

As far as compensation is concerned, I believe that the result of the investigation should be the basis whether we have to compensate or not as GIVING SO without proper reasons would MEAN stealing MONEY from the FILIPINO people. The FILIPINOS own the MONEY and not the GOVERNMENT. JUST SAYING THE TRUTH.

I strongly urge the PH government to update the Taiwanese Gov. on a daily basis about the progress of the investigation.

But if proven guilty, the PCG crew, like in any regular trials should pay for what they have committed, also the Philippine Government should pay compensation and should apologize-addressing all Taiwanese people.  But again, let us wait until the trial is over as judging without basis is just improper.

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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> despite your trash talk, I will be patient with you, b/c I think there are reasonable and intelligent Filipinos. If you read the article to the end, you will see there was ONE reported incident of beating by a mob/ gang of kids. It was an isolated incident, and Ma has promised to keep the rest safe. Unlike leaders of many third-world countries, president Ma is not a capricious liar.



Really? One we are not a third world country you idiot using a cold war terms is so like you uncivilized monsters its newly industrialized country get that to your uncivilized head and please his losing popular support before so he's using this to get high scores with the public and you morons fell for it! But unlike you calling us bloody killer we will wait if he does not protect them its on his head May araw rin kayo sa amin mga hayop kayo!


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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> Its time for Filipino gov to fully apologize, compensate and turn over the criminal coast guard if it wants to remain an ally. Otherwise, Philippine is worse than gov of China as Chinese coast guards are not murdering Taiwanese fisherman. I don't recall the last time China murder any Taiwanese fisherman. Can anyone recall?
> 
> As this is the case, Philippines need to compensate.




We don't need to do nothing as for apologies even though many are against it President Aquino a very good man did but your uncivilized government did not accept it so its not our fault its MAtopac fault if can't accept it because he's using it as political mileage to bring his sources up with your uncivilized public! May Araw rin kayo mga hayop kayo!


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## Pinoy

faithfulguy said:


> The period of waiting for apology is over. Its time to use the military to enforce a blockade. The Pinoy pirates need to be handed over to Taiwan and court martialed.


Taiwan is afraid to go to war with the Philippines. It will never happen now, and it will never happen in the future. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain with it. So please enough talking and just conduct your military drills. We Filipinos don't care whatever you want to do with your lives.

Besides if you want us to make some hand over. Declare your Independence to China first then we'll be happy to turn over it to you. DEAL?


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## Pinoy

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Former envoy Lauro Baja tells Taiwan to 'remember who its friends are'*
> Friday, 17 May, 2013, 4:49am
> 
> A former top Philippines diplomat has urged Taiwan to "remember who its friends are", in comments that appear to suggest *Taiwan is ungrateful for Manila's longstanding support for its political autonomy.*
> 
> "Taiwan should remember we were the first ones to have these informal relations with them and we have substantial relations with them in terms of trade," said Lauro Baja, the former Philippines ambassador to the United Nations.
> 
> Baja said he decided to speak out as a citizen because of what he perceived was Taiwan's "overreaction" to the death of one of its fishermen on May 9 when a Philippines coastguard vessel fired at a Taiwanese fishing boat that Manila said was inside Philippine territory.
> 
> *Baja said that, contrary to Taipei's claims that the incident occurred in disputed territory, Taiwan had long recognised the area as a part of Philippine waters.*
> 
> "If you recall, during the time of [President] Cory Aquino, there was some sort of corridor established for Taiwanese fishermen" to pass through that area, he said. But Baja, once foreign affairs undersecretary for policy, did not know the status of that agreement because "it came from Malacanang Palace and did not pass through the DFA [Department of Foreign Affairs]".
> 
> "With their entity being a province of China, giving sanctions and refusing to receive the representative of the president, what is that? Sometimes I feel we have these things coming to us because of our very timid diplomacy," Baja said.
> 
> *Rex Robles, a retired Philippine Navy commodore and security consultant, also pointed to the corridor agreement as proof that Taiwan recognises Philippine sovereignty over that area.
> *
> "I think everyone has forgotten about the safety corridor which Cory Aquino signed during her term. It allowed Taiwanese fishermen to pass through Philippine waters on their way to the Pacific Ocean," he said.
> 
> Robles said if Taiwan believed the area was theirs, in the first place, "why will they sign that MOU [Memorandum of Understanding]?"
> 
> Robles said he was "puzzled over the Taiwanese government's overreaction" and called for a thorough probe.
> 
> Outrage over Taiwan's Manila bashing and reported incidents of violence against Filipinos in Taipei spilled over yesterday to the social media.
> 
> Rafael Alunan, a businessman and former cabinet minister, wrote on Facebook: "China will take over Taiwan one of these days, and I will not shed a tear. Even without that formal takeover, they seem to be in bed together applying the same tactics against us and Japan in our respective territories."
> 
> International law expert Harry Roque noted that Taiwan has no legal leg to demand a fishing agreement with Manila because "Taiwan is not an independent state and should not expect to be treated as such".
> 
> 
> Former envoy Lauro Baja tells Taiwan to 'remember who its friends are' | South China Morning Post


Taiwan, of course, is over reacting. We should bear in mind that Taiwanese need us more than we need them. In the event that the PRC start its reunification campaign of the island bastion, what country in the region will these Taiwanese try to take refuge? Would we let them take refuge in the Philippines or let them settle their scores with their brothers in the mainland?

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## Pinoy

Actually am not surprised because this Taiwanese people are known barbarians. Members of their parliament fight tooth and nail and had shown un-educated actions before the eyes of the world in many occasions. Filipinos must brace for more cruelties and inhumane treatments in Taiwan or GO HOME!

Lawmakers Brawl: Video of mass fight in Taiwan parliament - YouTube


*Even Indonesians, Vietnamese dragged into Taiwan harassments*
May 20, 2013

Even Indonesians and Vietnamese are being dragged into the harassments by some Taiwanese groups over the fatal shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters last May 9, a Filipino worker there said Monday.

Marissa de Guzman, who works at a Taiwan semiconductor firm, said the groups behind the harassment are targeting people who look like Filipinos, even if the victims are of different nationalities.

"Magkakamukha kaya minsan napagkakamalang Pilipino, nasasaktan nila," she said in an interview on dzBB radio, when asked about Indonesians being targeted in the incidents of harassment.

When asked about reports of Vietnamese also being beaten up, she said, "magkamukha kasi talaga."

"Kaya lang sa pananamit ang difference. Mas maganda tayo pumorma," she added.

When asked if the situation had improved, she said it has not, at least based on posts on Facebook.

"Sa ngayon sa dami ng post sa Facebook, parang nagiging worse din po," she said.

Filipinos had been targeted in harassment incidents since a Taiwanese fisherman was shot dead in an encounter between a Philippine surveillance ship and a Taiwanese fishing boat off disputed waters last May 9. 

The incident prompted Taiwan to impose sanctions, including freezing the hiring of Filipino workers and imposing a travel alert discouraging travel to the Philippines. 

Last Saturday, de Guzman said a fellow OFW in Taiwan had been attacked and injured by a gang of Taiwanese.

De Guzman also said that while she had heard reports of some victims getting killed, there had been no confirmation so far.

Medical insurance

De Guzman also said their employers had advised them not to go out of their dormitories for their safety.

She said their employers had promised to shoulder their medical expenses if something happened to them in the factories, while their brokers would shoulder their expenses if they are injured in the dormitories.

"Sa labas hindi kami sagot. So kung hindi importante lakad sa labas, huwag muna," she said.

De Guzman said the dormitories are relatively well-equipped, with facilities for Internet as well as stores and establishments allowing money tranfers and remittances.

Meanwhile, to avoid further trouble, de Guzman said Filipinos communicate with each other using Tagalog.

"Nilalaliman lang namin ang Tagalog kasi marunong sila kahit papaano mag-Tagalog. Dapat laliman mo kaunti ... para hindi nila maunawaan," she said. &#8212;KG, GMA News


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## longyi

I wouldn't talk barbarism if I was you.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ppine-massacre-clan-enjoys-election-wins.html

No country can top that

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## Pinoy

longyi said:


> I wouldn't talk barbarism if I was you.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ppine-massacre-clan-enjoys-election-wins.html
> 
> No country can top that


The Communists are no better, with your brutal "Cultural Revolution" that killed MILLIONS of your people and ruined the lives of many more. It even killed 1.2 million Tibetans and the genocide still continues up to the present.


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## longyi

Pinoy said:


> The Communists are no better, with your brutal "Cultural Revolution" that killed MILLIONS of your people and ruined the lives of many more. It even killed 1.2 million Tibetans and the genocide still continues up to the present.





The topic is Taiwan and the Philippines, anything else is just


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## Pinoy

Taiwanese officials is just using this issue for their political interest.

To Taiwanese people, make us your enemies and soon we'll just laugh at you when China invades your precious land.


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## Pinoy

faithfulguy said:


> If Taiwan intercept all trips going to Philippine, is there anything Philippine can do???? Yes, it can apologize, compensate and turn over the murderer. Its time for Philippine to surrender the criminals inside its military.


JUST DO IT IF YOU CAN! 

Taiwan is not a country... remember we only observe a One China Policy.

If you want, DECLARE your INDEPENDENCE first then we'll be HAPPY to turn over them to you, if proven GUILTY.



Bob Ong said:


> Taiwan is really very persistent in their agenda to get US support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So no wonder if their reporter got palmed on her face


EPIC FAIL! LMAO!


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## Zero_wing

Pinoy said:


> JUST DO IT IF YOU CAN!
> 
> Taiwan is not a country... remember we only observe a One China Policy.
> 
> If you want, DECLARE your INDEPENDENCE first then we'll be HAPPY to turn over them to you, if proven GUILTY.
> 
> 
> EPIC FAIL! LMAO!



Wow nice

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## Pinoy

*Insincere Taiwanese leader politicizing poacher&#8217;s killing*
GOTCHA By Jarius Bondoc (The Philippine Star) | Updated May 20, 2013 

President Benigno Aquino III has apologized for the Philippine Coast Guard&#8217;s killing last week of a Taiwanese fisherman. It was as sincere as can be, given the circumstances. His government was still investigating how exactly the shooting had happened. But even as the coast guards invoked self-defense against a belligerent poaching vessel, it was apparent that they had erred. They supposedly were aiming for the Taiwanese boat&#8217;s engine to prevent it from ramming theirs, but in the process hit Hung Shih-cheng, 65. For that, Aquino sent the director of the Taipei-based Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO) to convey his and the Filipino people&#8217;s apology and condolences to the Hung family and the Taiwanese people. He already was treading on thin diplomatic ice as Beijing, so adamant about a one-China stance, jealously frowns on any official recognition of provincial Taiwan&#8217;s sovereignty. Still Aquino followed up with a formal letter, hand-carried by his personal envoy, the MECO chairman in Manila, with the same message.

Yet Taiwanese president Ma Ying-jeou rejected the contrition as &#8220;flippant.&#8221; His government recalled its de facto envoy to Manila, severed ongoing trade and cultural activities, and took it out on Filipino guest workers and travel agents. It even called out provocative naval exercises at the sea border.

All this happened as the Taiwanese press, divided between pro- and anti-Beijing, united in editorials calling Aquino insincere. From whatever side they stood, they took Manila&#8217;s observance of one-China as excuse for inadequate response. Ma, for months now chastened by a low 14 percent approval rating, saw a chance to rise by riding the wave of outrage. He set off increasingly jingoistic measures, including potential harassment of 87,000 Filipino workers in Taiwan. He had his factotums in Taipei and in Washington accusing the Philippine Coast Guard of &#8220;murder.&#8221; He ranted that Aquino apologize to him no less.

Sooner or later the Taiwanese will come around to realizing that it&#8217;s Ma who&#8217;s insincere. He is using fisherman Hung&#8217;s death to recoup his tattered look as a fence-sitting centrist. His first demand was recompense for Hung&#8217;s heirs. Even if the Philippines wished to comply, that cannot happen unless Ma sets the sober event for it.

But sobriety is farthest from a desperate mind. Ma&#8217;s agents worked on hotels where MECO officials usually stayed to deny them billeting this time. He mumbled mere bromides as reports swirled of diners and grocery stores turning away Filipinos in Kaohsiung, the southern port city where Hung resided. No sympathy too when a Filipino worker was pummeled in the head with a baseball bat by neighborhood bullies.

Ma is even cutting off his nose to spite his face. His government has halted processing Filipino work contracts to Taiwan or renewing expiring ones. And yet his man at the Taiwan Economic and Cultural Office (TECO) in Manila, the counterpart to the MECO in Taipei, had said that the island&#8217;s manufactories flourish because of the highly skilled Filipino workers. Acknowledged too was that Filipino domestics boost Taiwan&#8217;s economy by freeing its entrepreneurs from housework.

But Ma is unstoppable. He calls for trade sanctions, overlooking that the $11-billion annual commerce between Manila and Taipei favors the latter with a $6.7-billion surplus. He chides the Philippines for its one-China line, forgetting that Manila, at the height of Beijing&#8217;s global drive for UN recognition and Taiwan&#8217;s expulsion, had thought up the MECO-TECO setup to maintain long-standing ties with the island&#8217;s early Kuomintang rulers. Manila had twice earned Beijing&#8217;s ire in the &#8216;90s for feting Taiwanese presidents who dropped by en route to Washington.

Forgotten in Ma&#8217;s politicizing of a fisherman&#8217;s death is that the incident occurred in Philippine internal waters. Even the Taiwanese map (shown by The STAR yesterday) pinpoints it in the Balintang Channel, between Babuyan Islands of Batanes province and mainland Luzon. The Philippine fisheries bureau&#8217;s patrol craft, with 15 coast guards on deck, had spotted a Taiwanese boat and a mother ship poaching marine life. As it approached and gave notice to board, the bigger vessel sped off. The smaller Guang Ta Hsin-28, meanwhile, twice attempted to ram the Philippine craft. Both times the coast guards fired warning shots, then pursued and shot at the boat&#8217;s motor as it too fled. That the GTH-28 sustained 59 bullet holes does not mean murder, but self-defense against and hot pursuit of a resisting intruder-rustler.

Insincere Taiwanese leader politicizing poacher


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## hoangsa

Taiwanese, think bigger, be smarter. Don't let China take advantage from this accident. 
If not, go ahead then you will be just an island province. 

China is trying to separate 2 allies of US. With China, human life is nothing, don't pretend to have compassion for the fisherman. Many many Vietnamese fisherman were and are bullied by Chinese Navy on sea with no mercy. A Vietnamese fishing boat has just been set on fire by Chinese Navy recently. Vietnamese' ve got angry and opposed a lot but Chinese are absolutely safe in Vietnam. You will see our real power once we enter the fight like 1979 at border war, this time on sea.

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## Zero_wing

hoangsa said:


> Taiwanese, think bigger, be smarter. Don't let China take advantage from this accident.
> If not, go ahead then you will be just an island province.
> 
> China is trying to separate 2 allies of US. With China, human life is nothing, don't pretend to have compassion for the fisherman. Many many Vietnamese fisherman were and are bullied by Chinese Navy on sea with no mercy. A Vietnamese fishing boat has just been set on fire by Chinese Navy recently. Vietnamese' ve got angry and opposed a lot but Chinese are absolutely safe in Vietnam. You will see our real power once we enter the fight like 1979 at border war, this time on sea.



They won't they are all like that they are chinese after all


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## Pinoy

Taiwan must understand that acting like a bully will not be helpful in any way to the relationship of both sides. They have no jurisdiction whatsoever to the Philippines territory. Let our investigators finish the investigation before making threats and so forth against the Philippines. Taiwan is acting like their motherland, the mainland China, which they themselves will not tolerate.

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## Zero_wing

Pinoy said:


> Taiwan must understand that acting like a bully will not be helpful in any way to the relationship of both sides. They have no jurisdiction whatsoever to the Philippines territory. Let our investigators finish the investigation before making threats and so forth against the Philippines. Taiwan is acting like their motherland, the mainland China, which they themselves will not tolerate.



They are chinese after all its what they do best


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## Pinoy

*De Lima: Taiwan&#8217;s conclusion on death of fisherman premature*
By Edu Punay (The Philippine Star) | Updated May 20, 2013 

*MANILA, Philippines - The Department of Justice (DOJ) dismissed as premature the conclusion of Taiwanese investigators that the killing of a poaching Taiwanese fisherman by the coast guard last May 9 was intentional.
*
Justice Secretary Leila de Lima over the weekend said the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) has not yet completed its probe into the incident and has not come up with conclusive findings yet.

She would not confirm reports that the NBI found several violations of rules of engagement during the incident, while investigators so far gathered evidence showing the coast guard acted in self-defense against the aggressive act shown by the Taiwanese fishing vessels.

As to the statement of Taiwan&#8217;s Department of International and Cross-Strait Legal Affairs director Chen Wen-chi that Taiwanese investigators found that the shooting was intentional, De Lima said she was not sure if their probe was thorough and complete.

&#8220;We advise everyone to just wait for the results of the NBI investigation and avoid making any speculations and/or premature disclosure of so-called insider sources,&#8221; De Lima said.

De Lima believes that premature findings were irresponsibly released as they &#8220;would further fuel or aggravate the prevailing tension between the Philippines and Taiwan.&#8221;

The 17-member Taiwanese investigation panel arrived in the country last Thursday and left Saturday after their request for a joint probe was denied by the DOJ. They did not have access to key evidence gathered by the NBI: incident report from the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG), statements of the coast guards involved in the incident, and the ballistic reports from the firearms used.

The Taiwanese investigators said they decided to leave because of a lack of sincerity and cooperation by the Philippines.

*Parallel probe possible*

De Lima clarified that while a joint investigation is not possible since it would violate the country&#8217;s sovereignty, a parallel probe or cooperation between the Philippine and Taiwanese investigators could be considered.

She also assured the Taiwanese authorities that the NBI is conducting &#8220;a fair, thorough and expeditious probe to arrive at a just and credible conclusion.&#8221;

&#8220;That is the NBI&#8217;s mandate and NBI is perfectly cognizant of the seriousness and crucialness of its task. Until the conclusion of the NBI probe and submission of its report, everyone, including the media, is urged to refrain from making statements relative to the probe,&#8221; De Lima said.

The DOJ chief earlier directed NBI officials not to prematurely disclose initial findings in their probe. She said what can be released to the media are the steps and processes being undertaken and &#8220;not findings, opinions or conclusions.&#8221;

The NBI is expected to come up with its findings this week as the probe has been given &#8220;highest priority.&#8221; The bureau, however, has yet to get a go-signal for its team to fly to Taiwan to examine the fishing vessel and interview companions of the slain fisherman, Hung Shih-cheng, to be able to come up with a complete probe.

Citing sources privy to the probe, The STAR reported initial findings of the NBI that while the coast guards were on a defensive stance in shooting the Taiwanese vessel and only wanted to disable the poachers from fleeing, they may have violated rules of engagement in doing so.

It was learned that the personnel of MCS-3001, a 35-meter vessel jointly manned by the PCG and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR), were preventing the Taiwanese fishermen from further entering the Philippine territory. &#8211; With Alexis Romero and AP

De Lima: Taiwan


----------



## Pinoy

*Ma&#8217;s antics*
COMMONSENSE By Marichu A. Villanueva (The Philippine Star)
May 20, 2013 

It was indeed very unfortunate that a Taiwanese fisherman was killed when a patrol ship of the Philippine Coast Guard accosted his errant fishing boat last week. The Philippine vessel &#8211; actually a joint patrol ship of the Coast Guard and Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) &#8211; chanced upon the Taiwanese fishing boat straying into the disputed, overlapping sealanes in Balintang Channel.

While nobody wanted or intended anyone to be killed, opposition leaders in Taipei used this sad incident to bear upon their incumbent government officials led by their President Ma Ying-jeou. The incident has been blown out of proportion and thousands of innocent Filipino workers are now bearing the brunt of undeserved wrath and scorn of the Taiwanese people.

Having in mind the welfare of more than 90,000 overseas Filipino workers (OFWs) all over Taiwan, President Benigno &#8220;Noy&#8221; Aquino III issued a &#8220;personal apology&#8221; to the family of the slain Taiwanese fisherman. Adhering to the &#8220;one-China&#8221; policy, this is all that P-Noy could do.

At the time of the incident, the Taiwanese fishing boat was sailing some 80 kilometers off the Balintang Channel. Or this was 304 kilometers southeast of Taiwan based on the Coast Guard account of the incident. The Taiwanese fishermen who did not obviously understand any English words were probably surprised to find a Coast Guard accosting them and telling them they were in Philippine territory.

The Coast Guard admitted it fired at the Taiwan-flagged fishing boat to &#8220;disable&#8221; its engine because it reportedly tried to ram its vessel several times. If not for its maneuvers, the Coast Guard ship could have sunk, or so the Coast Guard claimed.

This certainty of sinking in Balintang Channel has high risks, as anyone who has sailed there will tell you. I experienced this myself on board the former presidential yacht BRP Ang Pangulo when it conked out while we were in Balintang Channel.

Opinion ( Article MRec ), pagematch: 1, sectionmatch: 1


Along with several other Malacañang reporters and photographers and members of the Presidential Security Group (PSG), we were going back to Manila after having covered the visit to Batanes of P-Noy&#8217;s late mother, former President Corazon Aquino. While the yacht was running with just one engine, we were tossed around by turbulent waves as the crew repaired the ship. We were later told the Balintang Channel is one of the most dangerous parts of Philippine waters where the China Sea meets the Pacific Ocean.

Thus, the Coast Guard personnel, in defending the country&#8217;s territory and themselves, were not trying to kill anyone in Balintang Channel. They were trying to save their lives as well, and were just doing their job.

The truth is, Taiwanese fishermen have long been poaching in our territorial waters in Balintang Channel, the small waterway that separates the Batanes and Babuyan islands. Both Philippine islands lie in the Luzon Strait, clearly Philippine territory.

Ask the local Ivatan fishermen of Batanes. The Taiwanese commercial fishing vessels have been lording it over the channel because they are the only ones who could. Local fishermen, with their small boats, cannot handle the gigantic waves in the area. Indeed, they regularly hire local Ivatans to do the dirty work in their boats and pay them a pittance.

Despite this, P-Noy also asked the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO) to make unspecified donations to the family of the slain Taiwanese fisherman. But even P-Noy&#8217;s personal emissary, MECO chief Amadeo Perez, who flew to Taipei to do this errand, was prevented to do so. Perez was bullied, physically and otherwise, the minute he stepped in Taiwan soil.

There have been some reports that some of our OFWs in Taiwan were experiencing different kinds of maltreatment from their employers. To put it in perspective, these complaints have been reported even before the Batanes incident.

But for the sake of diplomacy and for the sake of our workers in Taiwan, President Aquino ate humble pie and formally apologized. For now, the commander and crew of the Coast Guard vessel were relieved and the incident is being investigated by Philippine law enforcement authorities led by the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI).

That&#8217;s what a President is supposed to do. He is supposed to put the welfare of his people first. I&#8217;m sure there are many who disagree with the decision to apologize to Taiwan when the Coast Guard people were just defending Philippine waters against poachers. They would rather have the President play hardball, stand toe-to-toe and do some macho posturing, but what good would that do?

Nothing. Like Taiwanese President Ma&#8217;s saber rattling, it would do more harm than good to both the Taiwanese and the Filipino people. But we must think about the plight of our OFWs employed in Taiwan&#8217;s factories and homes who might be affected by the escalation of adversarial relations with a bully.

Filipinos comprise the third-largest group of foreign workers in Taiwan. Figures from the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office (TECO) in Manila show that Taiwan was the seventh top destination country for OFWs in 2012.

The president of Taiwan recalled back to Taipei the very amiable and hardworking Raymond Wang as TECO representative in the Philippines. President Ma also froze the hiring of Filipino workers after rebuffing President Aquino&#8217;s apology. The Taiwan government also issued a &#8220;red&#8221; travel alert urging Taiwanese not to visit the Philippines. But the more rational Taiwanese people ignore their government&#8217;s perorations and are still coming here.

Over the weekend, Taiwan leaders have notably toned down their previous demands. In their latest official statements, they just renewed their request to conduct a joint investigation into the incident in line with the existing mutual legal assistance agreement and to hold bilateral talks on fishery to prevent the recurrence of a similar incident.

Taiwan doesn&#8217;t have enough local skilled workers to keep its economy going. They need our OFWs more than we need Taiwan. With Taiwan&#8217;s economy in doldrums, President Ma cannot afford to look soft because his approval ratings are hovering at a very low 14 percent.

Taiwan&#8217;s tough stance and show of force are openly meant to score brownie points for their embattled President Ma. But why must we be dragged into Ma&#8217;s antics?

Ma&#8217;s antics


----------



## sdjd2013

hoangsa said:


> Taiwanese, think bigger, be smarter. Don't let China take advantage from this accident.
> If not, go ahead then you will be just an island province.
> 
> China is trying to separate 2 allies of US. With China, human life is nothing, don't pretend to have compassion for the fisherman. Many many Vietnamese fisherman were and are bullied by Chinese Navy on sea with no mercy. A Vietnamese fishing boat has just been set on fire by Chinese Navy recently. Vietnamese' ve got angry and opposed a lot but Chinese are absolutely safe in Vietnam. You will see our real power once we enter the fight like 1979 at border war, this time on sea.



I didn't know you guys had a navy, but I wouldn't talk if I were you. NVR's were the cruelest people during Vietnam war who didn't give a rats *** about the Geneva convention. So don't act humanitarian, it doesn't become you


----------



## sdjd2013

you guys can trash talk about Taiwan, give it unfair characterizations, call it a "renegade province," raise the one "china policy" when it suits your interests (not when it benefits your economy, of course), attack Ma, who is an angel compare to Aquino (remember that Taiwan gave refuge to Aguino's parents in the 80's that made his mother come to prominence possible), the fact remains, your coast guards have been bullying Taiwanese fisherman in the overlapping zone for that last 20 years, with the previous shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman in 2006, which went nowhere after your regime promised a "fair and expeditious" investigation that was forgotten by history. well, if it takes a military exercise for the world to notice, then so be it, and your Flippant ranting only make you guys appear ignorant.


----------



## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> you guys can trash talk about Taiwan, give it unfair characterizations, call it a "renegade province," raise the one "china policy" when it suits your interests (not when it benefits your economy, of course), attack Ma, who is an angel compare to Aquino (remember that Taiwan gave refuge to Aguino's parents in the 80's that made his mother come to prominence possible), the fact remains, your coast guards have been bullying Taiwanese fisherman in the overlapping zone for that last 20 years, with the previous shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman in 2006, which went nowhere after your regime promised a "fair and expeditious" investigation that was forgotten by history. well, if it takes a military exercise for the world to notice, then so be it, and your flippant ranting only make you guys appear ignorant.



Nope the real fact is your idiots to think your the master of this area and your not and MAtopac political mileage rhetoric has made a foreigners witch hunt that your uncivilized country needs because majority of your own people are too stupid and prideful to work on this industries now they are getting hurt thanks to your people's ignorance and stupidity and your demands are simply ridiculous to begin with the mere fact that President Aquino apology and got rejected by the Uncivilized Taewanese simply puts it that you want blood well come and get it then and as for those Brave men in the PCG who defended Philippine Waters from poachers keep up the good work.

Face it dude you people made your minds along time ago your not interested in true you people want blood and can't not accept your mistakes and arrogance is being defied by a country you think less of well its your lose your like this with all of your neighbors just like big brother imperial mainland china two pees in pod.


----------



## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> Nope the real fact is your idiots to think your the master of this area and your not and MAtopac political mileage rhetoric has made a foreigners witch hunt that your uncivilized country needs because majority of your own people are too stupid and prideful to work on this industries now they are getting hurt thanks to your people's ignorance and stupidity and your demands are simply ridiculous to begin with the mere fact that President Aquino apology and got rejected by the Uncivilized Taewanese simply puts it that you want blood well come and get it then and as for those Brave men in the PCG who defended Philippine Waters from poachers keep up the good work.
> 
> Face it dude you people made your minds along time ago your not interested in true you people want blood and can't not accept your mistakes and arrogance is being defied by a country you think less of well its your lose your like this with all of your neighbors just like big brother imperial mainland china two pees in pod.



another FLIPpant rant. stfu already

at least write something intelligible if you really want to communicate like a human being


----------



## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> another FLIPpant rant. stfu already
> 
> at least write something intelligible if you really want to communicate like a human being



Am a human being the question is are you? So does beating up foreign nationals makes you feel better?


----------



## sdjd2013

once in a while, I will hear fair comments from the Filipinos here. Most of the time, you guys just distort the facts and truth.



Zero_wing said:


> Am a human being the question is are you? So does beating up foreign nationals makes you feel better?



there was only ONE incident that I was aware of.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/468762/20130519/taiwan-philippines-benigno-aquino-jiang-yi-huah.htm#.UZnOS1vn-Uk

this is the only incident reported so far.

at least he wasn't killed by an agent of the government.


----------



## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> once in a while, I will hear fair comments from the Filipinos here. Most of the time, you guys just distort the facts and truth.
> 
> 
> 
> there was only ONE incident that I was aware of.



Wow so ignorant just a few hours ago a filipino was stab by mob of Taewanese maybe MAtopac has made a media block out to hide the true from the people and also heard news of Taewanese stores not selling to filipinos but have you people heard any news from the Philippines beating up Taewanse here? or not selling them food? really trying to hide from the fact your people are Uncivilized monsters?


----------



## sdjd2013

that is bullcrap, no Filipinos have been stabbed in Taiwan because of the row.

stop spreading rumors, idiot.

stop spreading rumors, idiot.

only a few vendors refuse to sell food to Filipinos, rest are business as usual.

only a few vendors refuse to sell food to Filipinos, rest are business as usual.

those vendors are in the rural, southern part of Taiwan. You will not find any discrimination in Taipei and other big cities.

those vendors are in the rural, southern part of Taiwan. You will not find any discrimination in Taipei and other big cities.


----------



## sdjd2013

I guess you have never been to Taipei, or Taiwan for that matter, which means you probably don't have much experience in international business.

you will never encounter ethnic cleansing like in Indonesia or and Philippines, so please, don't call the Kettle black, it takes one to know one.


----------



## sdjd2013

Pinoy said:


> *Ma&#8217;s antics*
> COMMONSENSE By Marichu A. Villanueva (The Philippine Star)
> May 20, 2013
> 
> It was indeed very unfortunate that a Taiwanese fisherman was killed when a patrol ship of the Philippine Coast Guard accosted his errant fishing boat last week. The Philippine vessel &#8211; actually a joint patrol ship of the Coast Guard and Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) &#8211; chanced upon the Taiwanese fishing boat straying into the disputed, overlapping sealanes in Balintang Channel.
> 
> While nobody wanted or intended anyone to be killed, opposition leaders in Taipei used this sad incident to bear upon their incumbent government officials led by their President Ma Ying-jeou. The incident has been blown out of proportion and thousands of innocent Filipino workers are now bearing the brunt of undeserved wrath and scorn of the Taiwanese people.
> 
> Having in mind the welfare of more than 90,000 overseas Filipino workers (OFWs) all over Taiwan, President Benigno &#8220;Noy&#8221; Aquino III issued a &#8220;personal apology&#8221; to the family of the slain Taiwanese fisherman. Adhering to the &#8220;one-China&#8221; policy, this is all that P-Noy could do.
> 
> At the time of the incident, the Taiwanese fishing boat was sailing some 80 kilometers off the Balintang Channel. Or this was 304 kilometers southeast of Taiwan based on the Coast Guard account of the incident. The Taiwanese fishermen who did not obviously understand any English words were probably surprised to find a Coast Guard accosting them and telling them they were in Philippine territory.
> 
> The Coast Guard admitted it fired at the Taiwan-flagged fishing boat to &#8220;disable&#8221; its engine because it reportedly tried to ram its vessel several times. If not for its maneuvers, the Coast Guard ship could have sunk, or so the Coast Guard claimed.
> 
> This certainty of sinking in Balintang Channel has high risks, as anyone who has sailed there will tell you. I experienced this myself on board the former presidential yacht BRP Ang Pangulo when it conked out while we were in Balintang Channel.
> 
> Opinion ( Article MRec ), pagematch: 1, sectionmatch: 1
> 
> 
> Along with several other Malacañang reporters and photographers and members of the Presidential Security Group (PSG), we were going back to Manila after having covered the visit to Batanes of P-Noy&#8217;s late mother, former President Corazon Aquino. While the yacht was running with just one engine, we were tossed around by turbulent waves as the crew repaired the ship. We were later told the Balintang Channel is one of the most dangerous parts of Philippine waters where the China Sea meets the Pacific Ocean.
> 
> Thus, the Coast Guard personnel, in defending the country&#8217;s territory and themselves, were not trying to kill anyone in Balintang Channel. They were trying to save their lives as well, and were just doing their job.
> 
> The truth is, Taiwanese fishermen have long been poaching in our territorial waters in Balintang Channel, the small waterway that separates the Batanes and Babuyan islands. Both Philippine islands lie in the Luzon Strait, clearly Philippine territory.
> 
> Ask the local Ivatan fishermen of Batanes. The Taiwanese commercial fishing vessels have been lording it over the channel because they are the only ones who could. Local fishermen, with their small boats, cannot handle the gigantic waves in the area. Indeed, they regularly hire local Ivatans to do the dirty work in their boats and pay them a pittance.
> 
> Despite this, P-Noy also asked the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO) to make unspecified donations to the family of the slain Taiwanese fisherman. But even P-Noy&#8217;s personal emissary, MECO chief Amadeo Perez, who flew to Taipei to do this errand, was prevented to do so. Perez was bullied, physically and otherwise, the minute he stepped in Taiwan soil.
> 
> There have been some reports that some of our OFWs in Taiwan were experiencing different kinds of maltreatment from their employers. To put it in perspective, these complaints have been reported even before the Batanes incident.
> 
> But for the sake of diplomacy and for the sake of our workers in Taiwan, President Aquino ate humble pie and formally apologized. For now, the commander and crew of the Coast Guard vessel were relieved and the incident is being investigated by Philippine law enforcement authorities led by the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI).
> 
> That&#8217;s what a President is supposed to do. He is supposed to put the welfare of his people first. I&#8217;m sure there are many who disagree with the decision to apologize to Taiwan when the Coast Guard people were just defending Philippine waters against poachers. They would rather have the President play hardball, stand toe-to-toe and do some macho posturing, but what good would that do?
> 
> Nothing. Like Taiwanese President Ma&#8217;s saber rattling, it would do more harm than good to both the Taiwanese and the Filipino people. But we must think about the plight of our OFWs employed in Taiwan&#8217;s factories and homes who might be affected by the escalation of adversarial relations with a bully.
> 
> Filipinos comprise the third-largest group of foreign workers in Taiwan. Figures from the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office (TECO) in Manila show that Taiwan was the seventh top destination country for OFWs in 2012.
> 
> The president of Taiwan recalled back to Taipei the very amiable and hardworking Raymond Wang as TECO representative in the Philippines. President Ma also froze the hiring of Filipino workers after rebuffing President Aquino&#8217;s apology. The Taiwan government also issued a &#8220;red&#8221; travel alert urging Taiwanese not to visit the Philippines. But the more rational Taiwanese people ignore their government&#8217;s perorations and are still coming here.
> 
> Over the weekend, Taiwan leaders have notably toned down their previous demands. In their latest official statements, they just renewed their request to conduct a joint investigation into the incident in line with the existing mutual legal assistance agreement and to hold bilateral talks on fishery to prevent the recurrence of a similar incident.
> 
> Taiwan doesn&#8217;t have enough local skilled workers to keep its economy going. They need our OFWs more than we need Taiwan. With Taiwan&#8217;s economy in doldrums, President Ma cannot afford to look soft because his approval ratings are hovering at a very low 14 percent.
> 
> Taiwan&#8217;s tough stance and show of force are openly meant to score brownie points for their embattled President Ma. But why must we be dragged into Ma&#8217;s antics?
> 
> Ma&#8217;s antics



OH MY GOD, THIS ARTICLE CANT BE FURTHER FROMT HE TRUTH. TALK ABOUT LIBEL AND MEDIA HYPES. MA WENT TO HARVARD, WHERE DID AQUINO GO? UNIVERSITY OF MANILA? THAT'S LIKE FERRARI VS. HOMEGROWN

ANTICS? WOULD A FERRARI ENGAGE IN ANTICS?


----------



## Juice

sdjd2013 said:


> Do you know how hard it is to control each and every citizen of your country? the beating of innocent Filipinos in Taiwan was wrong, but that was not the intention of the Taiwanese government, and the government has put such incidents on high alert, making prosecution of such mob actions a high priority.
> 
> oh, I forgot zero wing is a mindless minion who cannot be reasoned. Why do I even bother to respond to you.


 I am not agreeing with either side in this post.....but it is true that a government cannot control the actions of each citizen on an individual basis. If they could....that would be scary.


----------



## Zero_wing

Juice said:


> I am not agreeing with either side in this post.....but it is true that a government cannot control the actions of each citizen on an individual basis. If they could....that would be scary.



But they should wait they hurting people who are innocent of any crime but being the nationality of filipino


----------



## sonicbomb

Zero_wing said:


> maybe MAtopac has made a media block out to hide the true from the people



in case you don't know,in the latest 2013 ranking, Taiwan ranked 47th in the press freedom index, while Philippines 147th , so it's more likely Philippines media to have a media block by government than Taiwan.

en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html


----------



## Zero_wing

sonicbomb said:


> in case you don't know,in the latest 2013 ranking, Taiwan ranked 47th in the press freedom index, while Philippines 147th , so it's more likely Philippines media to have a media block by government than Taiwan.
> 
> en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html



Do i care its filipino lives am concern about the people who are now being prosecuted


----------



## chinapakistan

hoangsa said:


> Taiwanese, think bigger, be smarter. Don't let China take advantage from this accident.
> If not, go ahead then you will be just an island province.
> 
> China is trying to separate 2 allies of US. With China, human life is nothing, don't pretend to have compassion for the fisherman. Many many Vietnamese fisherman were and are bullied by Chinese Navy on sea with no mercy. A Vietnamese fishing boat has just been set on fire by Chinese Navy recently. Vietnamese' ve got angry and opposed a lot but Chinese are absolutely safe in Vietnam. You will see our real power once we enter the fight like 1979 at border war, this time on sea.



The only reason You can say so is because that was not your father or husband killed by maids.


----------



## Zero_wing

chinapakistan said:


> The only reason You can say so is because that was not your father or husband killed by maids.



Yup because ho's (chinese mainlander trash) killed more people then maids by many ways (Viruses and diseases, killing you in your sleep while stealing from you etc) Oh tell use you murdering Red guard how many people have your drone imperial state killed in the past 5,000 years of meaningless existence? Oh ya Billions


----------



## sonicbomb

Zero_wing said:


> Do i care its filipino lives am concern about the people who are now being prosecuted



what do you mean?


----------



## sdjd2013

sonicbomb said:


> what do you mean?



he means: Do I care[?] it[']s Filipino lives _ am concern about[,] the people who are now being p[er]secuted.

You have to add in the punctuation for this guy, b/c he is too lazy or ignorant to do so on his own, not to mention his tendency to exhibit "Diarrhea at the Mouth" syndrome, as many Filipinos have here.._


----------



## Zero_wing

Really now what is then?

AKSYON PRIME MAY 20, 2013 OFWS ABUSED IN TAIWAN - YouTube
And this?

Even Indonesians, Vietnamese dragged into Taiwan harassments

Even Indonesians and Vietnamese are being dragged into the harassments by some Taiwanese groups over the fatal shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman in disputed waters last May 9, a Filipino worker there said Monday.

Marissa de Guzman, who works at a Taiwan semiconductor firm, said the groups behind the harassment are targeting people who look like Filipinos, even if the victims are of different nationalities.

"Magkakamukha kaya minsan napagkakamalang Pilipino, nasasaktan nila," she said in an interview on dzBB radio, when asked about Indonesians being targeted in the incidents of harassment.

When asked about reports of Vietnamese also being beaten up, she said, "magkamukha kasi talaga."

"Kaya lang sa pananamit ang difference. Mas maganda tayo pumorma," she added.

When asked if the situation had improved, she said it has not, at least based on posts on Facebook.

"Sa ngayon sa dami ng post sa Facebook, parang nagiging worse din po," she said.

Filipinos had been targeted in harassment incidents since a Taiwanese fisherman was shot dead in an encounter between a Philippine surveillance ship and a Taiwanese fishing boat off disputed waters last May 9.

The incident prompted Taiwan to impose sanctions, including freezing the hiring of Filipino workers and imposing a travel alert discouraging travel to the Philippines.

Last Saturday, de Guzman said a fellow OFW in Taiwan had been attacked and injured by a gang of Taiwanese.

De Guzman also said that while she had heard reports of some victims getting killed, there had been no confirmation so far.

Medical insurance

De Guzman also said their employers had advised them not to go out of their dormitories for their safety.

She said their employers had promised to shoulder their medical expenses if something happened to them in the factories, while their brokers would shoulder their expenses if they are injured in the dormitories.

"Sa labas hindi kami sagot. So kung hindi importante lakad sa labas, huwag muna," she said.

De Guzman said the dormitories are relatively well-equipped, with facilities for Internet as well as stores and establishments allowing money tranfers and remittances.

Meanwhile, to avoid further trouble, de Guzman said Filipinos communicate with each other using Tagalog.

"Nilalaliman lang namin ang Tagalog kasi marunong sila kahit papaano mag-Tagalog. Dapat laliman mo kaunti ... para hindi nila maunawaan," she said.

Even Indonesians, Vietnamese dragged into Taiwan harassments | Pinoy Abroad | GMA News Online

And this?

Santiago: Harassment of Filipinos in Taiwan may warrant MECO abolition

MANILA, Philippines &#8212; Senator Miriam Defensor-Santiago warned on Sunday that injuries sustained by overseas Filipino workers (OFWs) from Taiwanese attackers could be considered &#8220;an act of aggression&#8221; that could serve as basis for the fold-up of the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO) in Taipei.
&#8220;The 87,000 overseas Filipinos in Taiwan had no hand in the death of the Taiwanese fisherman allegedly shot by the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG). If the victim were a Filipino, I don&#8217;t think the Taiwanese also want this sort of retaliation,&#8221; Santiago said in Filipino.
The senator repeated earlier observations that Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou could be using the incident that occurred last week in the waters off Balintang Island north of the Philippines to distract from domestic problems occurring in his country.
&#8220;Their president has become unpopular but he should not use this incident as a distraction just so the hostility meant for him is deflected to us, as he seems not to know how to run his country,&#8221; Santiago noted in Filipino.
The senator lamented how Taiwan officials seemed not to make an effort to protect the OFWs.
There have been reports of Filipinos being refused service in stores and restaurants and that one was even mauled with iron pipes following reports of the death of fisherman Hung Shih-cheng.
&#8220;From the point of view of international law, the (hostile acts against Filipinos) is already an act of aggression. Also, there is already a fact-finding effort. Let us first establish whether they violated our baseline law,&#8221; Santiago said.
Under this law, the Philippine baseline stretches up to 12 nautical miles from the coastline.
&#8220;Foreigners can only claim the right of innocent passage. Now, if the Taiwanese fishermen admit they were fishing&#8230;,&#8221; Santiago trailed off.
The senator cited Philippine laws allowing the PCG &#8220;to stop suspicious persons&#8221; from entering the country&#8217;s waters.
Santiago, a member of the Senate foreign relations committee, also lamented what she believed to be a display of &#8220;bad faith&#8221; by Taiwan when its officials unilaterally joined Philippine authorities investigating Hung&#8217;s death.
&#8220;The (Taiwanese officials) were not invited and they even brought the entire Taiwan media. It cannot be helped if one suspects the effort was for black propaganda. That is not friendly behavior,&#8221; she complained.
Santiago warned that further acts of provocation could force Philippine authorities to rethink whether the MECO should remain in Taipei.
&#8220;Under the One China policy, there are only 23 countries that recognize Taiwan as a separate country. The rest identifies Taiwan as a province. If Taiwan continues to make us a scapegoat for its domestic political problems, we should start thinking carefully&#8230; maybe we can just withdraw our office there,&#8221; she said.
Santiago pointed out that the Philippines has not established an embassy in Taipei &#8220;since we do not recognize Taiwan as a separate country from China. But we have a so-called cultural office, which (serves as the de facto) embassy. Eh, kung withdraw kaya natin ang embassy natin dun?&#8221;
She also said suggestions to repatriate arbitrarily the 87,000 OFWs would be considered a violation of their human rights.
&#8220;Why, that would be like the Holocaust, like Nazi Germany where the innocent is meted harsh punishment when it is so obvious that their president is only engaging in political posturing,&#8221; Santiago huffed.
Senator Francis Escudero blamed the &#8220;diplomatic complications arising from the One China policy&#8221; for worsening the rift between the Philippines and Taiwan.
&#8220;The situation is unique, and it requires a unique approach. But whatever it is, it will have to be decisive and it has to come soon. The issue is an emotional one, and situations like this can change from bad to worse in the blink of an eye,&#8221; he said in a statement.
Escudero pushed for a formal inquiry into the shooting of Hung.
&#8220;The family of the slain Taiwanese fisherman deserves no less,&#8221; he said.
&#8220;The only way to diffuse the situation is to convince the Taiwanese government that we are pursuing the path of justice earnestly. We should find out what happened, and what led to the unfortunate slaying of the fisherman. And then let&#8217;s move on from there,&#8221; he said.
So far, Taipei had rejected the apology issued by Philippine Representative to Taiwan Antonio I. Basilio over the fatal shooting.
Taiwanese President Ma claimed the statement of apology failed to satisfy the demands of his government and ordered a freeze on applications by Filipino laborers to work in Taiwan.
He also recalled the Taiwanese representative in Manila and requested the Philippine representative in Taiwan to return to Manila.


Read more: Santiago: Harassment of Filipinos in Taiwan may warrant MECO abolition | Inquirer Global Nation

Filipino assaulted by 4 Taiwanese in Tainan
Asia News NetworkBy Joy Lee in Taipei/The China Post | Asia News Network &#8211; Sat, May 18, 2013

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Taipei (The China Post/ANN) - Police confirmed that a Philippine worker was attacked by four Taiwanese and beaten with iron sticks and baseball bats in Tainan City on May 16 following the recent heated dispute between Taiwan and the Philippines.

There have been unconfirmed reports regarding random attacks on Philippine workers in Taiwan triggered by the Philippines' responses to Taiwan's demands over the shooting of a Taiwanese fishing boat.

According to the police, a 30-year-old Philippine worker was surrounded and beaten by four Taiwanese men on May 16 when he was on his way to work.

The police said no one that the worker knows has any resentment against him, so the police suspected that it may have been a random attack.

President Ma Ying-jeou posted on his Facebook page, stating that it is the Philippine government which should be responsible for the Hung Shih-cheng shooting incident, so the public should not vent anger against Filipinos in Taiwan.

Hong Hocheng, vice chairman of the National Science Council, said that there are currently over 7,000 Philippine workers employed in the three major science parks in Taiwan, and based on basic human rights, employers should not discriminate against Philippine workers.

"If Taiwanese people do not wish our fishermen to be insulted," Hocheng said, "then Taiwanese should not mistreat innocent Philippine workers in Taiwan."

Hsia Hsiao-chuan, the head of Shih-Hsin University's Graduate Institute for social Transformation Studies, said that Philippine nationals are also victims under the incompetent leadership of the Philippine government.

"The Philippine government does not equal Philippine nationals," Hsia said, "and the Taiwanese government should step out and stop the public from venting their anger on innocent Philippine workers."

Amid intense public anger over the fatal shooting of the Taiwanese fisherman, the government has introduced a second wave of retaliatory measures, including a halting of all technology, trade, fishery and agriculture exchanges, as well as discouraging travel to the Philippines as the Philippine government appears unlikely to respond immediately to Taiwan's demands. 

Are this rumors jerk? Before you call me names arrogant jerk take look at this am what going to take your word over my countrymen are you insane? I believe them and this is true you people are uncivilized animals for doing this to foreign workers filipinos or otherwise! 
May araw rin kayo mga hayop kayo puntang ina niyo lahat magbabayad kayo! Hindi tulog ng diyos magbabayad kayo sa mga kasamaan niyo!

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## sdjd2013

USAHawk785 said:


> The Philippines can never be touched. She is too precious and too strategically important in American Strategic interests for it to be touched by any foreign power. Any foreign power who dares touch the Philippines shall suffer the full might of the United States Navy, Air Force and the Army.
> 
> United States conducted the largest naval invasion in human history back in 1944 to retake the Philippines from the Japs. That illustrates the shear will of our resolve to preserve Philippine-American homeostasis.
> 
> Taiwan, because it is subservient to its American Daddy, will not do anything. Else it will be punished. As for China, LOL. Well, c'mon. The 7th Fleet will eradicate the PLAN from the face of the earth if need be.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. The moral of the story is that our Pinoy buddies got their revenge. Come hell or high waters, they shot at a Chinese alright...hahahaha!



Do you have something against people of the Chinese descent? who are the pillars of communities all over the U.S., or did you contract STD from a Filipina that fried your brain?

you are repeating the same incident three times over, as though ppl in Taiwan are attacking minorities randomly. As usual, you make yourself appear ignorant and disingenuous. There has been but ONE attack incident. Any additional incidents will most likely be punished severely by the Ma government. So, STOP SPREADING RUMORS TO MISLEAD THE PUBLIC.


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## USAHawk785

sdjd2013 said:


> OH good, I wonder what Rush Memorial Medical Center (in Chicago) thinks about the inflammatory comments made by its general surgeon, proven by a photograph.
> 
> China has tried to overrun Taiwan, but couldn't take its remote island back in '54 or so with little or no help from the U.S., and the U.S. has already abandoned Taiwan when it recognized mainland as the true China, and the lowly life of a 65 year-old fisherman is someone's father, and it's quite shocking to hear that from a General Surgeon of a major hospital. Tell me, do you selectively choose who should live or die at your hospital based on age???? Or perhaps based on race????



The bulk of your air force is composed of F-16 A/B variants (144 or so) and you also operate 32 F-5s. American made. 

The navy you use relies on the power of the Kidd-class destroyers, a moth-balled destroyer class that the USN no longer uses as we have phased out the Kidd-Class with the Arleigh Burke-class (AEGIS combat system) destroyers. 

Do you seriously think that the USN, particularly the 7th fleet will allow you to use American warships to target Mutual-Defense Treaty Ally of the United States? You've got to be kidding me, kid.

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## sdjd2013

unless you apologize, I think I will report you to your employer.

So does that mean Taiwan can use the Mirage 2000 and the Lafayettes on the allies of U.S.? You are such a dumb **** you deserve to be reported.

Go ahead, tell me you have no compunction, I dare you.


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## USAHawk785

sdjd2013 said:


> oh, ok, I'm overreacting over the comments of an American doctor who has shown disregard for human life, and who refers to countries where human beings reside as "pawns." Yea, buddy, we will let your employer decide who is melo-dramatic here. You are more a swashbuckler than a physician.



I suggest you tone down your emotions and realize the strategic interests of this country, to which you live in. The United States sees Taiwan as a warm port for our 7th Fleet, which traverses regularly throughout Taiwanese waters and makes port calls in your country. The Philippines is an imperative and strategic value to the Entire Pacific Naval Command. 

Anything that will compromise on our interests , our pivot, shall be corrected. 

Ma, because he is subservient to the interests of Washington , will concede. In fact, I guarantee it. 





sdjd2013 said:


> unless you apologize, I think I will report you to your employer.
> 
> So does that mean Taiwan can use the Mirage 2000 and the Lafayettes on the allies of U.S.? You are such a dumb **** you deserve to be reported.
> 
> Go ahead, tell me you have no compunction, I dare you.



Hahaha, go ahead and report.

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## sdjd2013

your silence speaks volume. For that, I will forgive you. Better watch your mouth next time, dumb sh it.

ok, I will then.

Don't bet on Ma conceding to the U.S. this time, unless U.S. dispenses justice impartially and equally.

Later loser, I would hate to be in your hospital


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## USAHawk785

Offtopic: I'm actually a pretty good surgeon. 

On topic: There will be no use of force against the Philippines. As far as we are concerned, She (The Philippines) is untouchable.

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## Yukio

Taiwan should calm down. Japan and US wont support Taiwan if their action is against another treaty ally Philippines.

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## sdjd2013

USAHawk785 said:


> Offtopic: I'm actually a pretty good surgeon.
> 
> On topic: There will be no use of force against the Philippines. As far as we are concerned, She (The Philippines) is untouchable.



1) so you say

2) who said anything about force? Ma has already ruled that out, unless the Flips attack again. For now, I am for a good old fashion blockade to choke off your lifeline. What's U.S. gonna do? attack Taiwan? Bring it on, let's the ICBM fly!!

3) That's fine, Taiwan doesn't need Japan's support, it never did, and never will. Japan aint gonna come to anyone's rescue unless it can claim a piece of property for itself -- "anything handful is a lot" right?


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> 1) so you say
> 
> 2) who said anything about force? Ma has already ruled that out, unless the Flips attack again. For now, I am for a good old fashion blockade to choke off your lifeline. What's U.S. gonna do? attack Taiwan? Bring it on, let's the ICBM fly!!
> 
> 3) That's fine, Taiwan doesn't need Japan's support, it never did, and never will. Japan aint gonna come to anyone's rescue unless it can claim a piece of property for itself -- "anything handful is a lot" right?



Well the US will just be in between us so as far as attacking us or you it will never happen your country is already in hot water now! Face it MAtopac's plans to use this issue ended up blowing up in his face! May araw rin kayo for added fun


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## USAHawk785

Yukio said:


> Taiwan should calm down. Japan and US wont support Taiwan if their action is against another treaty ally Philippines.



Wise statement, Yukio.

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## Pinoy

Learn to move on, Taiwan LMAO!


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## sdjd2013

U.S. congressmen back Taiwan's position over Philippines row | Latest | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

wake up fools, your smoke and mirror won't work on the American public.


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## Soryu

chinapakistan said:


> The only reason You can say so is because that was not your father or husband killed by maids.



same in your case kid....


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## shuttler

Yukio said:


> Taiwan should calm down. Japan and US wont support Taiwan if their action is against another treaty ally Philippines.



That is exactly what Taiwan wants
japanese and the yanks and the indians and vietcongs should stay the fog out of an issue between Taiwan and Pinoys
and if resort to military the philippines will say very sorry from the top down in matter of hours&#65281;

ps&#65306;the huge placard are good shooting practice for pallet guns&#65281;

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## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> That is exactly what Taiwan wants
> japanese and the yanks and the indians and vietcongs should stay the fog out of an issue between Taiwan and Pinoys
> and if resort to military the philippines will say very sorry from the top down in matter of hours&#65281;
> 
> ps&#65306;the huge placard are good shooting practice for pallet guns&#65281;



Ya sorry they have falling planes


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## soaringeagle

Gentlemen, arguing like this will go no where. 
Furthermore, I do believe there are some norms in this forum, please refrain from stereotyping, abusive words and racist comments, that goes for both side. Sidetracking is allowable to a certain extend, but not to the extend that you get stuck in it.
In reality both government did make wrong moves and handled this incident badly.


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## soaringeagle

faithfulguy said:


> No need to invade Philippine. Just arrest and put the Philippino military on trial will do. If they are found guilty, execute them.


Personally I do not endorse executions.
An arrest, however, is warranted.
First charge will be putting their own crew at mortal danger (shooting at a vessel will not neutralize a threat, even if there was a threat) 
Second charge will be fail to report the shooting at a foreign vessel in a timely manner thus putting their government in a dangerous position.
Third charge is to answer for the death of a civilian.


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## filipino_american

The US Secretary of State and President Obama never condemned the Philippines.

Secretary John Kerry declined to condemn the Philippines multiple times during media interviews.

The Taiwanese military was not really able to carry out its original intentions for the military exercises, which is to use live ammunition in a simulated attack on hostile enemy naval forces by joint naval and air assets. This is because of a "strong external pressure" from a "common ally (of PH and TW)" not to do so.


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## filipino_american

shuttler said:


> That is exactly what Taiwan wants
> japanese and the yanks and the indians and vietcongs should stay the fog out of an issue between Taiwan and Pinoys
> and if resort to military the philippines will say very sorry from the top down in matter of hours&#65281;
> 
> ps&#65306;the huge placard are good shooting practice for pallet guns&#65281;



Sorry, but TAIWAN will soon realize that the Philippines is not the ENEMY, but CHINA.


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## filipino_american

Found this article this morning

Indonesian witness said incident happened in Philippine waters.

John Albert Fernando, another Filipino worker at the harbor, said the Indonesian crew member of the Guang Ta Hsin 28 had told him that the boat was in Philippine waters because he had seen "plenty of tuna."

"I talked to him, he took his belongings, and then he disappeared," Fernando said.

According to Fernando, the Indonesian said Hung was in the engine room during the shooting, but looked out and was hit.

So the death of the TW fisherman was REALLY unintentional.

Indonesian witness said incident happened in Philippine waters; Slain Taiwanese was &#8216;good to Filipino fishermen&#8217; | Rebuilding for the Better Philippines

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## shuttler

filipino_american said:


> Sorry, but TAIWAN will soon realize that the Philippines is not the ENEMY, but CHINA.



I can only be too happy if the Taiwanese can get what they want or more from the Philippines SOON&#65281;
The situation between China and Taiwan can be solved over time&#65281;


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## shuttler

filipino_american said:


> Found this article this morning
> 
> Indonesian witness said incident happened in Philippine waters.
> 
> John Albert Fernando, another Filipino worker at the harbor, said the Indonesian crew member of the Guang Ta Hsin 28 had told him that the boat was in Philippine waters because he had seen "plenty of tuna."



the Taiwanese data records are much more reliable evidences. He didnt say there was "ramming" as the PCG accused
Where is the PCG's data records of their ship's positions?




> "I talked to him, he took his belongings, and then he disappeared," Fernando said.
> 
> According to Fernando, the Indonesian said Hung was in the engine room during the shooting, but looked out and was hit.
> 
> So the death of the TW fisherman was REALLY unintentional.
> 
> Indonesian witness said incident happened in Philippine waters; Slain Taiwanese was &#8216;good to Filipino fishermen&#8217; | Rebuilding for the Better Philippines




Have a brain!
If the crew of the small fibre glass boat were not on the deck, where could they be? Jumping ship? or in the cabin?
When all the unarmed Taiwanese were hiding in the cabin and the PCGs were spraying tons of bullets at it through their high caliber guns, it is cold blooded murder!


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## chinapakistan

Soryu said:


> same in your case kid....



Kid, talk to me after you can think logically.


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## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> the Taiwanese data records are much more reliable evidences. He didnt say there was "ramming" as the PCG accused
> Where is the PCG's data records of their ship's positions?
> 
> 
> Have a brain!
> If the crew of the small fibre glass boat were not on the deck, where could they be? Jumping ship? or in the cabin?
> When all the unarmed Taiwanese were hiding in the cabin and the PCGs were spraying tons of bullets at it through their high caliber guns, it is cold blooded murder!



This is funny the brainwash asking us to have brain


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## shuttler

Zero_wing said:


> This is funny the brainwash asking us to have brain



Go away TROLL&#65281;

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## Star&#8730;ation

Taiwanese politicians are really good in statecraft.


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## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> Go away TROLL&#65281;



Make me oh wait you can because you have no real evidence that i am one


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## faithfulguy

Star&#8730;ation;4330485 said:


> Taiwanese politicians are really good in statecraft.



No, they are not good at defending its people. If it is, it would have made the Filipino government apologize and compensate.

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> No, they are not good at defending its people. If it is, it would have made the Filipino government apologize and compensate.



look its not going the way want it sir


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## longyi

*NBI probe points to Coast Guard negligence*








*Justice Secretary Leila de Lima *



MANILA, Philippines - *Initial findings in the investigation into the fatal shooting of a suspected Taiwanese poacher off Batanes last May 9 indicate criminal negligence on the part of Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) personnel involved, a source privy to the probe said yesterday.*

This developed as *Justice Secretary Leila de Lima* said a team of *National Bureau of **Investigation (NBI) *agents is ready to fly to Taiwan and is just awaiting information on some arrangements with Taipei through the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO).

De Lima said the NBI has bits and pieces of initial findings and is beginning to draft a report.

The STAR learned from a source that *coast guard personnel manning the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) patrol vessel may face criminal and administrative charges for possible violations of rules of engagement, excessive use of force, and neglect of duty.*

*PCG personnel admitted having fired warning shots at two Taiwanese vessels some 39 nautical miles off Bantayan Island in the Balintang Channel. Authorities said such warning shot is not allowed under the rules of engagement.

There is excessive use of force if the 50 bullet holes reportedly found on the fishing vessel can be proven to have come from the firearms of PCG personnel.

In its incident report submitted to the NBI, the PCG confirmed that its personnel left the site after firing at the fishing vessel without checking on the victim.*

The source said they have to wait for the findings of the NBI team from Taiwan before making conclusions.

De Lima again refused to confirm the initial findings, but said NBI agents are expected to gather enough evidence in Taiwan to validate these preliminary results.

She also said theres no more stopping the flight of the NBI team to Taipei.

I have standing clearance for the NBI team to leave anytime once all the needed arrangements have been made through MECO in Taiwan, De Lima told reporters.

MECO head Amadeo Perez, however, said visas had already been issued to eight NBI agents and forensic experts and that *De Lima already agreed to the demand of Taiwanese investigators that they be allowed to see the video footage *of the May 9 encounter.

Secretary De Lima said she did not refuse to show them the video. She said the Taiwanese investigators would be allowed to see the video once their delegation is completed since some of them were still on their way here, Perez explained in a phone interview. It would be up to Sec. de Lima when she wants the team to leave.

But when asked for confirmation, the justice secretary replied: I myself am waiting for word from MECO. I will announce once theres development.

Earlier, De Lima said she did not want the flight schedule announced to prevent the investigation from getting undue media attention.

*Self-defense*

Meanwhile, the PCG released a three page incident report detailing how its men had to defend themselves from the Taiwanese boats hostile maneuver.

*One of the Taiwanese vessel maneuvered to ram our starboard bow. This unit executed reverse (gear) to avoid collision, the report read.*

In its initial report, the NBI said MCS-3001, a 35-meter patrol vessel jointly manned by PCG and BFAR personnel, set sail in the northern part of Batanes last May 8 to conduct patrol and surveillance.

The next day, the PCG-BFAR crew spotted several radio beacons with two floating buoy markers some 39 nautical miles east of Balintang Islands. They suspected that the buoys were markers for several Taiwanese fishing vessels. Soon after spotting the buoys, the PCG-BFAR vessel was able to find the location of the Taiwanese fishing boats.

*While on meeting situation, this unit then sounded warning through PA system and blow horn for the Taiwanese fishing vessel to stop for the conduct of fishing (the PCG) fired warning shots to alert the fishing vessel until the fishing vessel stopped and one of the crew of the fishing vessel went outside, *the PCG said.

The PCG report said that when its vessel got near the fishing boat Guang Ta Hsin-28, the latter revved up its engine and made threatening moves.

The PCG crew fired another round of warning shots but the Taiwanese vessel engaged the PCG-BFAR vessel instead in a high-speed chase.

This prompted the MCS-3001 to open fire at Guang Ta Hsin-28 with the intention of disabling its engine but accidentally killed Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-cheng.

*To stop the fishing vessel, this unit announced to fire for effects the engine side section of said Taiwanese fishing vessel to immobilize her (boat) and stop her (boat) engine, *the report read.

While chasing the Guang Ta Hsin, the MCS-3001 crew spotted at least two unidentified boats.

With the presence of two unidentified boats in the vicinity, MCS-3001 disengaged from the chase.

*Easing tension*

Judging from church attendance, threats to Filipinos in Taiwan have lessened, a Taipei-based Filipino priest said yesterday.

Fr. Leonilo Mantilla, parish priest of St. Christophers Church in Taipeis Zhongshan District, told Radio Veritas that church attendance is back to normal some two weeks after parishioners avoided going out of their homes for fear of reprisals from Taiwanese following the May 9 incident. Almost all of St. Christophers parishioners are Filipinos, according to Mantilla.

At this moment, the situation is very cool and the tensions have eased, Mantilla said, adding that Taiwanese local officials were helping ease the tension.

NBI probe points to Coast Guard negligence | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

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## Zero_wing

See we have to wait for proper investigation


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## soaringeagle

Actually they are not doing too bad in this incident, aside from a couple of wrong moves.



faithfulguy said:


> No, they are not good at defending its people. If it is, it would have made the Filipino government apologize and compensate.


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## soaringeagle

The PGV vessel has more than twice the speed of the fishing vessel and can overtake it in a matter of minutes, why shoot at it in the first place? And why the chase last so long?
Things just don't add up.

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## Zero_wing

soaringeagle said:


> The PGV vessel has more than twice the speed of the fishing vessel and can overtake it in a matter of minutes, why shoot at it in the first place? And why the chase last so long?
> Things just don't add up.



I saw the Vessel its not as big as it is in your minds sir its a civilian vessel converted to be PCG vessel ramming ship is prove to be a favorite tactic of poachers so its very true that ramming this type of vessel is going to be very dangerous and one its not smart to ram ships


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## soaringeagle

Mr. Zero_wing, according to Wiki the PGV vessel is 35M long, 100 tons and capable of 28 knots. The fishing vessel is 15M long, 15 tons and cannot exceeds 12-15 knots (limited by hull design).
By looking at the modern design and the appearance of the gel-coat, I am sure that the fishing vessel is almost brand new (less than a year). A vessel like that will cost about USD 500000 in the States to build, may be less in Taiwan (half?). Still, most likely a life long saving for a fisherman. The owner, under a threatening situation, his first thought will be how to save it from sustain any damage, not how to sink the opponent, especially when there is no match.
Now both captain are seasoned seamen, if I know this, they must both know better.
Then, the part that puzzles me the most is: with a speed advantage of over 300 meters per minute, how come the chase last so long??

That is what I mean by things don't add up.

Well, may the deceased rest in peace, and let us hope that the conclusion can yield some positive outcome for both side.

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## soaringeagle

And like I mentioned in a previous post, shooting at a ship with a machine gun will not neutralize the threat, you cannot see the engine components, you cannot see the fuel tank and you cannot see what/who is inside.
Coast guard captains should be well trained professionals and should know that by doing so will put his crew in more danger, not less.
I just wonder what is the reason for him to give such an order.


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## Zero_wing

soaringeagle said:


> Mr. Zero_wing, according to Wiki the PGV vessel is 35M long, 100 tons and capable of 28 knots. The fishing vessel is 15M long, 15 tons and cannot exceeds 12-15 knots (limited by hull design).
> By looking at the modern design and the appearance of the gel-coat, I am sure that the fishing vessel is almost brand new (less than a year). A vessel like that will cost about USD 500000 in the States to build, may be less in Taiwan (half?). Still, most likely a life long saving for a fisherman. The owner, under a threatening situation, his first thought will be how to save it from sustain any damage, not how to sink the opponent, especially when there is no match.
> Now both captain are seasoned seamen, if I know this, they must both know better.
> Then, the part that puzzles me the most is: with a speed advantage of over 300 meters per minute, how come the chase last so long??
> 
> That is what I mean by things don't add up.
> 
> Well, may the deceased rest in peace, and let us hope that the conclusion can yield some positive outcome for both side.



Well its said 28 notes normally since this ships are old it would be on 15 n

The Taiwanese boat rammed the 35-meter Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) vessel, MCS-3001, at about 10:30 a.m. last Thursday off Balintang Channel between the provinces of Cagayan and Batanes.

&#8220;The ramming of the boat into our vessel was certainly an aggressive act so the PCG (Philippine Coast Guard) responded accordingly,&#8221; Deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte said.

According to PCG commandant Rear Admiral Rodolfo Isorena, the Taiwanese fishing boat, Guang Ta Hsin-28, together with another Taiwanese vessel were 43-nautical miles east off Balintang Island when the boats were halted by the crew of MCS-3001, a vessel jointly manned by the PCG and BFAR personnel, for an on-board inspection. However, the smaller Taiwanese fishing boat did not respond to the warning and even tried to ram the Philippine maritime agency vessel.

As a result, the commanding officer of the MCS-3001 ordered to open fire at Guang Ta Hsin-28 to disable its engine. However, Taiwanese fisherman named Hung Shih-cheng was accidentally killed.

Two unidentified vessels, one white and one gray, arrived in the area apparently to rescue the disabled Taiwanese vessel, prompting the MCS-3001 to disengage and leave as they were already outnumbered.

Both the PCG and BFAR crew onboard MCS-3001 were relieved as part of the standard operations procedure while the investigations are ongoing.

Incident

On 9 May 2013, the Taiwanese fishing boat Guang Da Xing No. 28 (Chinese: &#24291;&#22823;&#33288;28&#34399;; pinyin: Gu&#462;ngdàx&#299;ng Èrshíb&#257; Hào; Pe&#781;h-&#333;e-j&#299;: Kóng-t&#257;i-hing J&#299;-tsa&#781;p-peh H&#333 was operating about 164 nautical miles southeast of Cape Eluanbi, Taiwan.[5] The vessel was captained by Captain Hung Yu-chih (&#27946;&#32946;&#26234; other crew members on board included the captain's father, Hung Shih-cheng (&#27946;&#30707;&#25104, the captain's brother-in-law, Hung Jie-shang and an Indonesian national.

The Filipino Maritime Control Surveillance 3001 (MCS-3001), a 35-meter vessel jointly manned by the Philippine Coast Guard and Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources personnel, detected two fishing boats at 43 nautical miles east of Balintang Island, a disputed area between Taiwan and the Philippines. The Philippine Coast Guard opened fire on the fishing boat during a 50-minute chase into Taiwanese waters, that ended around 10:00 in the morning. Fifty-nine bullet holes (45 of which were entry holes) were found on the vessel and the slugs were identified as coming from a semi-automatic rifle. The vessel suffered significant damage, including engine failure, while the main deck experienced severe and concentrated attack, based on the distribution of the bullet holes.
Location

The incident occurred in the high seas and the overlapping exclusive economic zones between Taiwan and the Philippines. The site was 43 nautical miles east of Balintang Island according to the Philippine Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources and 170 nautical miles south of Taiwan according to Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, both well within the 200 nautical mile range prescribed by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

The only thing we can do is to wait for the final investigation to be over


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## longyi

^"A dead chicken cracks the pot cover" in Cantonese?

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## Zero_wing

longyi said:


> ^"A dead chicken cracks the pot cover" in Cantonese?



Rock may fall from the skies so the one who got hit should not be a sore loser in filipino


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## Martian2

*Thank you to everyone that answered my request for your support*

I want to express my gratitude to all 35 people that supported my post on BusinessWeek against the Philippines. I only know the names of two of you (e.g. Liang and Aurorae).

I am grateful to the 33 anonymous people that voted for my comment to give it added weight during the early days of the Taiwan-Philippine dispute.

Muchas gracias!







Source link: Taiwan Demands Probe With Philippines Into Fisherman Death (1) - Businessweek

----------

I was on Reuters to support Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou against the Philippines on May 13, 2013.






Source link: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/13/us-taiwan-philippines-idUSBRE94C02H20130513

----------

In case you're wondering, I'm still pounding away at the Philippines. Here is my comment at The Washington Times on May 23, 2013.






Source link: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/23/inside-china-taiwan-china-vie-for-toughness/

----------

As the relentless keyboard warrior, here I am criticizing the Philippines on United Press International (UPI) on May 24, 2013.

I will be in the mainstream western media forever to remind the Philippines of their crimes until they start to behave in a civilized manner.






Source link: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Se...oost-to-military-spending/UPI-74001369368180/

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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> I saw the Vessel its not as big as it is in your minds sir its a civilian vessel converted to be PCG vessel ramming ship is prove to be a favorite tactic of poachers so its very true that ramming this type of vessel is going to be very dangerous and one its not smart to ram ships



you are an idiot STFU, the PCG boat is 100 ft. and at least 80 tons, vs. a 15 ton fishing boat made of fiber glass. why don't you draw a picture dumb ****

What I don't understand is why would the PCG boat disengage after seeing two unidentified boats if they thought they were in PH waters? Why don't they call for help? especially when the two UI boats were known "fishing boats"?

that sounds like they didn't want to be caught RED-HANDED

why doesn't PH release the video tape???? THAT IS THE QUESTION


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## sdjd2013

Ill tell you why, cuz they don't want to try those mother fu ckers for murder 1st, and dish out 25 to life!!!



USAHawk785 said:


> Wise statement, Yukio.



so wise, I can name you Dr. DEATH JR., MY SON...


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> you are an idiot STFU, the PCG boat is 100 ft. and at least 80 tons, vs. a 15 ton fishing boat made of fiber glass. why don't you draw a picture dumb ****
> 
> What I don't understand is why would the PCG boat disengage after seeing two unidentified boats if they thought they were in PH waters? Why don't they call for help? especially when the two UI boats were known "fishing boats"?
> 
> that sounds like they didn't want to be caught RED-HANDED
> 
> why doesn't PH release the video tape???? THAT IS THE QUESTION



Because even what size it is a hostile act is still one if the investigation is over let see but for now calling me names does not help anyone moron!


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## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> See we have to wait for proper investigation





Then why do you keep on insisting on the ramming theory even when your own government says criminal negligence


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## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Then why do you keep on insisting on the ramming theory even when your own government says criminal negligence



Well i was hoping you would post again nice to hear from you Admiral General its been long time how's imagination navy and the troops doing are they being update with the latest weapons from your imagination factory?


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## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> Well i was hoping you would post again nice to hear from you Admiral General its been long time how's imagination navy and the troops doing are they being update with the latest weapons from your imagination factory?



Thanks for missing  me but I was on call as my partner took his family for a nice long vacation.


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## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Thanks for missing  me but I was on call as my partner took his family for a nice long vacation.



Ok dude whatever you say  Just glad to have you back compare to this morons your a breath of fresh air!


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## sdjd2013

The video tape is only two hours?? The chase was FOUR hours! the tape most likely contain only a near collision (or attempted "ramming") before the chase and not the end of the chase and the shooting. Why only two hours?


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> The video tape is only two hours?? The chase was FOUR hours! the tape most likely contain only a near collision (or attempted "ramming") before the chase and not the end of the chase and the shooting. Why only two hours?



make up your mind you been bashing because there is no video now there is your still bashing! Man you need to just accept facts

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## nastikan

IMO Taiwan's aggressive posture and saber rattling is not helping the situation. They should give philipines a little time to come up with a response.

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## Zero_wing

nastikan said:


> IMO Taiwan's aggressive posture and saber rattling is not helping the situation. They should give philipines a little time to come up with a response.



Let them they are just being ignored anyway but we are investigating the matter we are not like them rushing things to gain political mileage with the people that MA really needs to go his the problem and the people of Taiwan needs to mature and be responsible they like their chinese brothers are making trouble everywhere they should stop doing illegal activities in the sea and respect the waters of their Neighbors


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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Taiwanese probers watch video of PH Coast Guard's fatal encounter with fishing vessel*
By: Marlene Alcaide, News5
May 28, 2013 11:38 AM

MANILA, Philippines - (UPDATE 5:30PM) Taiwanese investigators watched on Tuesday morning almost two hours of video taken by the Philippine Coast Guard and which captured the May 9 incident in the Balintang Channel, during which a Taiwanese fisherman was killed.

The investigators were accompanied by representatives of the Manila Economic and Cultural Office - the country&#8217;s de facto embassy to Taiwan - and Teco, its Taiwanese counterpart.

*They declined to discuss what they saw.*

Relatedly, the Taiwanese investigators also inspected the vessel of the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources involved in the Balintang Channel incident.

The inspection conducted on MCS 3001, a 35-meter vessel made of fiberglass, lasted for almost one-and-a-half hours. It is docked at Pier 13 in Manila.

Commodore Eduardo Gongona, fleet commander of the Philippine Coast Guard, assisted the Taiwanese investigators. He said the foreign investigators inspected the inside area of the vessel and, with the use of a rubber boat, encircled the entire vessel.

They also took pictures of the proceedings.

He said the foreigners also inspected the damaged side of the vessel which could have been a result of the collision with the fishing boat of Taiwan.

Using a ruler, the Taiwanese investigators measured the armory of the BFAR vessel to determine whether the firearms used during the incident can be contained therein.

Even the siren used for warning an intruding boat was also utilized.

The Taiwanese investigators were accompanied by officials of the National Bureau of Investigation. After the inspection, the team went to the NBI headquarters on Taft Avenue, Manila.

Serious rift between neighbors

The death of the fisherman, whom the Coast Guard said was shot when his fishing boat allegedly tried to ram the BFAR vessel, has caused a serious rift between the Philippines and Taiwan.

On Monday the Taiwanese investigators conducted ballistics tests on the 17 firearms surrendered by the Coast Guard personnel in the incident

Taiwanese probers watch video of PH Coast Guard's fatal encounter with fishing vessel - InterAksyon.com

Dakdak ng dakdak ang mga Taiwanese nuong hindi pa nakikita ang video...ngayon na nakita nila ay hindi sila makapagsalita.

The Taiwanese gov't should apologize to the Philippine gov't and to the Filipino people. I can't understand why our gov't values its relationship to Taiwan so much. The Philippine gov't should release the video to the public so the world would know how these Taiwanese fishermen brazenly tried to ram our CG ship. Let the Taiwanese lose face.

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## Malaya

sdjd2013 said:


> The video tape is only two hours?? The chase was FOUR hours! the tape most likely contain only a near collision (or attempted "ramming") before the chase and not the end of the chase and the shooting. Why only two hours?


This 2 hour video would establish quite a lot on what led to the death of your Taiwanese Fisherman. I hope objectivity based on facts will determine the cause and not just emotive delivery of justice. Both parties should respect the result of the investigation and move on.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

How Taiwanese fishermen are hurting Ivatans

From a report by Jorge Cariño, ABS-CBN News
Posted at 05/28/2013 9:45 PM | Updated as of 05/28/2013 9:45 PM

BATANES &#8211; Despite the tension over the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman off Batanes, Taiwanese fishing vessels continue to stray near Philippine waters.

Fishermen said their presence is hurting locals in Batanes.

Eddie Fainza went out fishing the whole of Tuesday morning but all he could show for his effort was a single dolphin fish.

Fainza shared there are supposed to be plenty of dolphin fish this time of the year, but because there are many Taiwanese fishing vessels in the area, fishing has become much harder. 

&#8220;Hirap na hirap diyan sa siyam sa isang araw. Mabuti kung hook lang ang ginamit nila, eh lambat &#8216;yung gamit ng mga Taiwanese,&#8221; he said.

Over the weekend, several Taiwanese fishing vessels were spotted near the islands of Masanga and Mavudis.

Photos of the vessels were taken using a cellphone, and submitted by a fisherman to the police.

The local government admits that all they can do is document the presence of these vessels.

These are pictures they can use in case they file complaints.

Batanes Governor Vicente Gato himself admits they don't have the ability to fight off intruders.

He added that it is even easier to befriend the Taiwanese to avoid trouble. 

&#8220;&#8217;Di naman kami papalaban sa mga kwan dito and definitely we are so far from mainland Luzon. As a matter of fact ah, mas malapit kami sa Taiwan kaysa Luzon,&#8221; he said. 

There are Coast Guard personnel in Batanes, but they don&#8217;t even have boats on standby, leaving them helpless and unable to respond.

The people of Batanes said they may be tolerating the presence of Taiwanese vessels in the area but this doesn&#8217;t mean they can be bullied.

They said they are ready to defend themselves and their land when the need arises.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/focus/05/28/13/how-taiwanese-fishermen-are-hurting-ivatans

If the Taiwanese are rich, why are they stealing our fish??? Our gov't should not tolerate these Taiwanese thieves.

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## Malaya

The area is within Philippine territory. (Just use google maps just to have an idea of the location.)







Taiwan is acting irrational, like a cry baby. Doing tantrums if its wishes are ignored. It is not new that the Chinese/Taiwanese has been poaching regularly at our surrounding sea. We expressed apologies and we even gone extra mile for them. So enough! Their sanctions are directly irrelevant to the situation. The Philippine economy will continue to improve without Taiwan.

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## Malaya

_double post_


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## Malaya

*19 intrusions by Taiwanese vessels into PH seas recorded since 2006&#8212;PCG*
By Jerry E. Esplanada
Philippine Daily Inquirer
Tuesday, May 28th, 2013

MANILA, Philippines &#8212; At least 19 intrusions into northern Philippine waters by Taiwanese vessels suspected of illegal fishing have been recorded by the Philippine Coast Guard since 2006, a PCG official told the Philippine Daily Inquirer on Tuesday.

The official, who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity of the issue, also said that an undisclosed number of Taiwanese fishing vessels caught by the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) have remained in the custody of the agency after all these years.

One of the seized vessels has been fined P13 million by the BFAR while some of the fishermen have been charged in local courts, he said.

The BFAR operates 10 monitoring and surveillance vessels, most of them manned by PCG personnel.

The official noted that with the pullout of the BFAR surveillance ship 3001 from the Batanes group of islands, there had been no major Coast Guard presence in the area.

&#8220;Fishermen, mainly from Taiwan, are having a fiesta. Especially now, which is a fishing season,&#8221; he said.

The BFAR 3001, a fiber glass vessel, has a crew of 19, of whom 17 are PCG personnel.

Last year, the ship was one of several ships deployed by the government to the West Philippine Sea during the standoff between the Philippines and China over Scarborough Shoal.

Asked if the BFAR 3001 would be re-deployed to the north, Rear Admiral Rodolfo Isorena, PSG commandant, said he would await the outcome of the inquiry into the May 9 shooting of a Taiwanese boat off the Balintang Channel, which had led to the death of a Taiwanese fisherman.

He said the morale of the PCG personnel has sunk since the May 9 fatal shooting that stirred diplomatic tensions between the Philippines and Taiwan.


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## Malaya

So many existing threads/topics in this forum.

I hope the Mod should just merged all other threads related to this incident.


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## Zero_wing

Batanes Fisher folks Opposed signing Philippines-Taiwan fishing rights; Violation of &#8220;Archipelagic State&#8221; UNCLOS
at Wednesday, May 29, 2013 

A Filipino Friendly Taiwanese fisherman; Mr Hung was shot inside the Philippine archipelagic baseline waters in the balintang Channel last May 9, 2013 

Philippines could be sanction if will violate the article 51 with the Bahamas, Indonesia, Fiji, and Papua New Guinea

In the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) held in Jamaica last December 10, 1982; Five (5 ) Sovereign nations that includes the Bahamas, Indonesia, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, and the Philippines were approved and qualified as "Archipelagic States" which terms and conditions mentioned in the Part IV Archipelagic State: Article 51- Existing agreements, traditional fishing rights and existing submarine cables .. as said ..

" for the exercise of such rights and activities, including the nature, the extent and the areas to which they apply, shall, at the request of any of the States concerned, be regulated by bilateral agreements between them. Such rights shall not be transferred to or shared with third States or their nationals".

This article 51 of the UNLCOS in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea held in Jamaica last December 10, 1982 means for the case in Southeast Asia and east Asian countries, only Indonesia and the Philippines could share its fishing rights as both are archipelagic states and "shall not shared with third States or their nationals"

The Philippines could not share its fish in between islands of the country to Taiwan as Taiwan is not an archipelagic State.

An Archipelagic State; In various conferences of the United Nations on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Indonesia, the Philippines, Papua New Guinea, Fiji and the Bahamas are among the five sovereign nation that got the approval in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) held in Jamaica last December 10, 1982 and qualified as Archipelagic States.

"Archipelagic States are states that composed of groups of islands forming a state as a single unit, with the islands and the waters within the baselines as internal waters. By this concept (Archipelagic doctrine), an archipelago shall be regarded as a single unit, so that the waters around, between, and connecting the islands of the archipelago, irrespective of their "breadth and dimensions", form part of the internal waters of the state, subject to its exclusive sovereignty"

Looking at the archipelagic baseline of the Philippines, the Philippines could not share its fish to Taiwan for the fishing ground in the Batanes group of Islands up to the Y'ami island and the Balintang Channel, where the recent shootout of a Taiwanese fishermen who is a very friendly to Filipinos happened,.

Fishing agreements that would not violate the UNCLOS provision article 51 would be only applicable in Bashi Channel beyond Y'Ami Island or in between Orchid Island and Y'Ami Island with coordinates of 21° 33'42" N and 121° 44'51" E.

Another case of shootout happened to a wandering Taiwanese fishermen in 2006 happened in Batanes Group of Islands shore which 2 Philippine police men were listed by Taiwan as "wanted" after the shootout inside the Philippine Archipelagic Baseline.

Taiwan's fishing agreement would be limited only outside the Philippine Archipelagic baseline as it would jeopardize the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) held in Jamaica last December 10, 1982 it if would allow Taiwan to fish inside the Philippine archipelagic baseline.

Taiwan is not an archipelagic state which UN convention article 51 is not applicable to them.

Filipinos Opposed the Fishing Agreement between the Philippines and Taiwan inside Philippine Archipelagic baseline

As reported in the BBC News Asia, for generations, Quirino Gabotero Jr's family and the estimated 15,000 people in the Philippines' northernmost Batanes Islands have been relying on the sea for a living. But in recent decades, they have seen their food source decline.

The same body of water around the islands is also claimed by neighboring Taiwan as its exclusive economic zone. Taiwanese fishermen are able to catch more fish with their bigger boats and more sophisticated fishing methods.

They have even depleted the stock of flying fish - something they use as bait, but is staple food for Batanes residents, said Mr. Gabotero.

"During the times when we don't see them, we get 1,000 or 2,000 flying fish in one catch. When they're around, we don't catch so many, perhaps only 100," said Mr. Gabotero.

Unlike Taiwanese fishermen, many of the Philippines 1.6 million fisher folk are not commercial fishermen, and nearly half of them are considered poor, according to the government.

"Our fishermen catch just enough to feed their family, but nothing more. They can barely build their house, or send their children to school. Some of them are so poor they have to work as migrant workers on the Taiwanese fishing boats to fish in their own waters," said Mr. Gabotero.

Tensions over this unequal ability to tap the rich marine resources of the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea have been brewing for years.

They exploded in a diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines this month when 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-cheng was shot dead after Philippines coast guard opened fire on his boat while he was fishing in the overlapping waters of the two sides' exclusive economic zones.

Since then, both Taipei and Manila have sent naval vessels to disputed parts of the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea.

This incident highlights how unresolved disputes in the resource-rich South China Sea and West Philippine Sea could potentially threaten good relations among countries in the region, and even regional stability.

"We are against signing a fisheries agreement because that means we are giving our resources to them without getting our fair share" Quirino Gabotero, Filipino fisherman"

'No shelter'

Besides Taiwan and the Philippines, several countries, including China, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei claim part or all of the sea - believed to be rich in oil and natural gas deposits, besides fish stocks.

While attention has been focused on the Philippines-Taiwan dispute, other countries are also involved in fishing and territorial disputes in the sea. Taiwan's boats also have been detained by Indonesia and Vietnam, while the Philippines regularly deal with "poachers" from China, Malaysia and Vietnam.

"The most problematic is China, not really Taiwan, because they have made a map which includes our territorial waters," said Jonathan Bickson, chief of the captured fisheries division in the Philippines' Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources.

"One country even sends maritime patrol vessels. When our fishermen go to these fishing grounds, they even drive them away, even though these are our fishing grounds, especially Scarborough Shoal in western Philippines," he said.

"So our fishermen now cannot even make shelter in Scarborough when there's rough seas or when there are typhoons. The situation has gotten worse in recent years."

China insists the shoal is historically Chinese territory.

In the case of the body of water separating Taiwan and the Philippines, Philippine fishermen have been notifying their coast guard when they spot Taiwanese boats. That has led to a rise in fines and arrests of Taiwanese fishermen.

Taiwan's Fisheries Agency estimates that in the past three decades, there have been 108 incidents of Taiwan's fishing boats being stopped, fined or confiscated or crews detained for six months to a year by Filipino authorities.

Fines imposed on the crews have ranged from $50,000 (£33,000) to $60,000, according to the agency. The actual numbers are believed to be higher because some cases are settled without being reported to Taiwan's authorities.

'Don't dare to sleep'

Taiwanese fishermen also see themselves as victims. For generations, they have lived off the sea, but they say each time they head out to what they consider as their fishing grounds, they face risks.

"The Philippines consider the area their waters, so they've confiscated our boats, fined us and they've opened fire in the past. This was not the first time. It's happened many times before," said Tsai Bao-hsin, director of Taiwan's Liouciou District Fisheries Association, whose fishermen regularly fish in the area.

At least one other Taiwanese fisherman was shot dead a few years ago. More than 1,000 boats have been confiscated, according to Mr. Tsai.

When confronted, many of the fishermen have to make the split-second decision of whether to stop and pay a huge fine, risk having their boat confiscated and being jailed, or try to get away.

Investigators from both sides are probing the shooting of Mr.. Hung, but his son - who was onboard at the time - has said the boat was sprayed with bullets when they tried to get away to avoid paying a fine they didn't think they should pay because they were fishing in waters Taiwan considers its territory.

Despite the dangers, more than half of Taiwan's estimated 350,000 fishermen sail to the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea. That's because it's a good place to catch the very valuable tuna - of which Taiwan is one of the biggest producers in the world.

But the killing of Mr. Hung is considered by the Taiwanese as the last straw. Taiwan's fishermen are demanding their government negotiate an agreement with the Philippines on fishing rights to stop the harassment they say they regularly face and to prevent similar incidents from happening again.

"Sometimes we don't even dare to sleep at night when we are out at sea," said Hung Sheng-huei, who had fished since the age of 16 but gave it up after he was arrested by the Philippines in 2010 and spent three months in a crowded jail cell.

"When they stopped us at sea, they all had guns. They demanded I pay $120,000. It's like we were an ATM machine. I offered to wire them the money, but they wanted cash. I didn't have it."

Mr. Hung said he ended up turning over his boat to them to get out of jail. He now works odd jobs for other fishermen and lives on his savings.

"It's a big impact on my family. We depend on the sea for a living," said Mr. Hung, who added that he will only return to sea if the two sides reach a fishing agreement.

But most Batanes fishermen are opposed to the signing of such an agreement, even though Manila has expressed interest in holding talks at some point.

"We believe the Batanes territory, including the waters within it from the north to south, the Philippine government owns that," Mr. Gabotero said. "We are against signing a fisheries agreement because that means we are giving our resources to them without getting our fair share."

It remains to be seen whether the two sides can find a mutually beneficial and acceptable way of resolving this difficult dispute. If they do, it could set an example for other countries with claims to these waters.

With report from BBC News Asia

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## p3avi8tor69

Don't worry Zero_wing, Imperial Manila couldn't give a rat's arse to simple fisher folks and the destitute, Imperial Manila only caters to the Chinese taipans, Spanish oligarchs and elite and corrupt Pinoys.


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## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Don't worry Zero_wing, Imperial Manila couldn't give a rat's arse to simple fisher folks and the destitute, Imperial Manila only caters to the Chinese taipans, Spanish oligarchs and elite and corrupt Pinoys.



Wow you sound like real moron when you say that stop copying those wasteful excuse for humans makes you sound like dumb@$$


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## sdjd2013

Malaya said:


> The area is within Philippine territory. (Just use google maps just to have an idea of the location.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taiwan is acting irrational, like a cry baby. Doing tantrums if its wishes are ignored. It is not new that the Chinese/Taiwanese has been poaching regularly at our surrounding sea. We expressed apologies and we even gone extra mile for them. So enough! Their sanctions are directly irrelevant to the situation. The Philippine economy will continue to improve without Taiwan.



I don't know if people like you are just devoid of cognizance, or are you purposely leaving out details to distort the truth? Are saying because the incident happened south of Bataanes and therefore it is in PH territory? Where is the EEZ line on your map? Let me post a real map for you.


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## sdjd2013

Let's Tell the World the Brutality and Callousness of Philippine Government

PH has ignored Taiwan's proposed temporary EEZ line (the red line with the rectangular shape carved out for the Bataanes isles) made to avoid military conflicts for the last 20 years. By staying silent to Taiwan's own enforcement of its proposed EEZ line, PH has acquiesced to the proposal. The incident happened in the overlapping areas just south of the red EEZ line, but it is still within the international 200 nautical miles zone. If you guys can't get along with your neighbors in a peaceful manner, then I'd say fu ck you all and bomb the **** out of manila, and Taiwan should join with China to fu ck up the Americans too if they try to interfere.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> Let's Tell the World the Brutality and Callousness of Philippine Government
> 
> PH has ignored Taiwan's proposed temporary EEZ line (the red line with the rectangular shape carved out for the Bataanes isles) made to avoid military conflicts for the last 20 years. By staying silent to Taiwan's own enforcement of its proposed EEZ line, PH has acquiesced to the proposal. The incident happened in the overlapping areas just south of the red EEZ line, but it is still within the international 200 nautical miles zone. If you guys can't get along with your neighbors in a peaceful manner, then I'd say fu ck you all and bomb the **** out of manila, and Taiwan should join with China to fu ck up the Americans too if they try to interfere.



its google plus its well known fact in matters in ezz even through its not ezz anymore since its in waters near a Philippine province and plus Taiwan is island not an archipelago which the Philippines is under archipelago doctrine of unclos the Philippines has the rights to the area and other fact the Political position of taiwan is questionable one its not a Sovereign country of its own personality hence Republic of china not republic of Taiwan and its not a member of the UN so as far as Ezz is concern the Philippines is best position this demonizing tactics will not bring you anything so its pointless to try plus the investigation even though not yet done has proven the fact that said vessels was indeed in Philippine waters and it did committed a hostile act by ramming said PCG vessel so this murder sander is not true in fact is homicide if its a civilian criminal case but even then if a normal person can prove he was defending ones self then said individual can cleared of the charge but its not the case here because this law enforcement vessel in the performance of its duties since the intent of the PCG vessel is to defend itself and bring the hostile vessel but that should be wavered off due to the fact that PCG did its duty and was in titled to defend its self from any hostile threat and tried to bring in to custody the said vessel but was recurred by taiwanese intruding vessels that over powered and over sized the PCG

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## Malaya

sdjd2013 said:


> I don't know if people like you are just devoid of cognizance, or are you purposely leaving out details to distort the truth? Are saying because the incident happened south of Bataanes and therefore it is in PH territory? *Where is the EEZ line on your map?* Let me post a real map for you.


LOL learn how to backread. It has been posted several times already. Heck you don&#8217;t even dare to look closely or probably you just can't see clearly with your small eyes. 



sdjd2013 said:


> Let's Tell the World the Brutality and Callousness of Philippine Government
> *PH has ignored Taiwan's proposed temporary EEZ line *(the red line with the rectangular shape carved out for the Bataanes isles) made to avoid military conflicts for the last 20 years. By staying silent to Taiwan's own enforcement of its proposed EEZ line, PH has acquiesced to the proposal. The incident happened in the overlapping areas just south of the red EEZ line, but it is still within the international 200 nautical miles zone. If you guys can't get along with your neighbors in a peaceful manner, then I'd say fu ck you all and bomb the **** out of manila, and Taiwan should join with China to fu ck up the Americans too if they try to interfere.


This is arrogance pure and simple. First of all, you&#8217;re not even recognized by the international community. Taiwan is a not a country. You&#8217;re just a rebel province of China and as a province, you should know that you cannot make unilateral acts which will compromise the interest of mainland China. That ends the argument. Soon the mainland will annex or even destroy you by force. When that time arrives, we actually expect an exodus of your fellow Taiwanese that will soon go to our country including your desperate leaders who bully us. 



sdjd2013 said:


> fu cking Chinese wetback monkeys


Talkin&#8217; to yourself?

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Standing firm against Taiwan's strong-arm tactics*
BY JAY L. BATONGBACAL 
POSTED ON 05/29/2013 2:38 PM | UPDATED 05/29/2013 6:29 PM

The death of Taiwanese fisherman Huang Shih-Cheng on account of Philippine law enforcement activities is yet another test of Philippine foreign policy, particularly its resolve to protect the nation's territory and marine wealth.

It should be clear that the loss of a human life under any such circumstance is regrettable and a valid cause for reflection and concern. But a singular misfortune should not be unscrupulously used as a political hammer with which to bludgeon Philippine dignity and demand a surrender of legitimate Philippine interests.

The context of the incident must be clarified. Information from Taiwanese media reports on the incident, biased as they are, reveal that the Taiwanese fishing boat Guang Da Xing 28 was illegally fishing well within Philippine waters.

The assertion that the vessel was in Taiwanese waters at the time is an assertion made in bad faith, shown indisputably by the geographic coordinates and vessel track publicly released by Taiwan's Coast Guard Administration (TCGA).

First, the vessel's track shows that it intentionally ventured beyond even Taiwan's own &#8220;provisional boundary,&#8221; which it unilaterally established without the consent of the Philippines for purposes of maritime regulation of its own vessels. In other words, the vessel was fishing outside Taiwan's own claimed maritime areas.

Second, the vessel was fishing approximately 43 nautical miles east of Balintang Island, far beyond any Taiwanese territory and undeniably closer to Philippine territory.

Third, the vessel deliberately sailed into and intentionally fished beyond the median line created by the overlapping EEZs of the Philippines and Taiwan. *In international law, while all coastal states are entitled to claim EEZs of up to a maximum of 200 nautical miles, in case of overlapping zones, they may legitimately claim only up to the median line which is equidistant at all points from their respective baselines.* The only exception is if they agree upon a different boundary by treaty.

Even if Taiwan were a full-pledged coastal state, it is not entitled to claim Philippine waters as being within its EEZ as if the Philippines does not exist. If that was a valid argument, then Taiwan should consider most of its waters open to Philippine and Japanese fishing vessels up to the mainland coasts which are all within 200 nautical miles of either Philippine or Japanese territories.

Furthermore, Article 4 of Taiwan's own EEZ law requires Taiwan to seek an agreement on the basis of equity to resolve overlapping EEZ boundaries. In international law, a median line based on equidistance is presumed prima facie to be an equitable line, unless special circumstances show it to be otherwise.

Caught in the act

*Instead of establishing the boundary by agreement and on the basis of equity, Taiwan violates its own law by unilaterally and illegally appropriating for itself the Philippine EEZ around the Batanes Islands through the provisional boundary.*

A map of the area of the incident, showing the Philippine treaty limits, Taiwanese provisional boundary, and median line of the overlapping EEZs from the two countries' respective baselines, and the vessel's track, all prove (based on Taiwanese accounts) that the vessel was committing a violation of Section 87 of the Philippine Fisheries Code, or the offense of poaching in Philippine waters.

The Guang Da Xing 28 deliberately fished about 130 nautical miles inside the Philippine EEZ. For this reason alone, the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) was justified in attempting to intercept, board, inspect, and if necessary, arrest the Taiwanese vessel since it was in flagrante delicto with absolutely no right to fish in Philippine waters.

Until the offending vessel is actually boarded and inspected, the PCG cannot afford to let its guard down; the limited naval and coast guard assets in that area are faced with multiple possible threats.

The area of the incident in particular has long been a problem for maritime law enforcement not only on account of illegal fishing, but also smuggling, drug trafficking, illegal logging, and illegal migration activities. Whether any other violations were also being committed, unfortunately, may no longer be determined since the PCG was unable to carry out the arrest.

Duplicity, opportunism

The incident having arisen on account of the commission by the Taiwanese vessel of an offense, Taiwan has absolutely no right to demand that the Philippines enter into a fisheries agreement with it, in order to give Taiwan access to the Philippine EEZ. Neither does it justify Taiwan's imposition of economic sanctions against the Philippines. Such an agreement would be morally unacceptable because in effect, it allows Taiwan to profit disproportionately from an illegal act.

More sanguine Taiwanese observers and scholars admit that the Taiwan government is merely over-reacting to the situation. But this is an understatement; taken as a whole, the Taiwanese government's reactions smack of duplicity and opportunism.

What Taiwan is legitimately entitled to is only an honest and impartial investigation of the incident, just as in any other case where a person suffers injury or death on account of law enforcement. The use of force is generally authorized in all law enforcement operations (otherwise it would not be credible or effective).

In international practice, such use of force is generally disfavored but not absolutely prohibited. Even the FAO Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries (CCRF), a generally-accepted international instrument that includes guidelines for fisheries law enforcement by coastal states, recognizes that it may be necessary to use force to physically stop a suspect vessel. This is in cases where a vessel does not respond to standard instructions to stop and permit boarding and despite repeated warnings by radio or loud hailer.

The CCRF does admonish, though, that particular care be taken when using force, and that states should employ only the minimum amount necessary to ensure compliance with lawful instructions.

What is not permitted is the use of &#8220;excessive&#8221; force. In accord with standard international practice, whether a degree of force applied is still permissible or already excessive depends on the circumstances.

For maritime law enforcement by the Philippine Navy or the PCG, this depends on the so-called &#8220;rules of engagement&#8221; that govern their operations at sea. Such rules prescribe, in a clear and calibrated manner, the actions that a vessel may take in order to carry out its functions. They describe the conditions under which a ship captain may or may not use force, and to what degree.

This makes it even more important to determine, through proper, calm, and impartial investigation, whether the PCG was justified in shooting at the Guang Da Xing 28 in the manner that it did.

Three questions are key to this issue.

First, whether the PCG vessel followed proper procedures in intercepting and attempting to board and inspect a foreign vessel caught fishing in Philippine waters. Second, whether the Guang Da Xing 28 attempted to resist or elude the PCG in carrying out its law enforcement mandate. And lastly, whether the act of firing upon the Guang Da Xing 28 was a reasonable course of action under the circumstances in order for the PCG to carry out its duty to enforce the law at sea.

If the investigation results in a finding that there was indeed an &#8220;excessive&#8221; use of force, then the chips must fall where they must and the officers responsible must be held accountable in accordance with our law. This is the appropriate, principled, and dignified response.

Beyond that, the Taiwanese government has absolutely no moral or legal right to enact sanctions against the Philippines, nor to demand that the Philippines surrender its fisheries resources through a fisheries agreement, nor to allow or encourage personal reprisals against Filipino citizens in Taiwan.

The Taiwanese President's highly inflammatory remarks calling the death &#8220;cold blooded murder,&#8221; his government's outright denial of working visas to Filipino workers, his rejection of the President's personal apology (despite the absence of solid basis), and use of the fisherman's demise as an excuse to threaten the Philippines with economic sanctions in order to coerce the Philippines to grant its unjustified demands, all smack of opportunistic politics.

The reprisals taken against innocent OFWs in Taiwan and Filipinos in general are racist responses and not acts of civilized nations nor of responsible members of the international community.

Acts of bad faith

The Taiwan government's actions expose a patently illegal agenda of forcing its modern industrialized fishing fleet upon Philippine waters to the detriment of our artisanal fishing communities, and is rooted in Taiwan's own official condonation and encouragement of illegal fishing.

The location and configuration of the TCGA's provisional boundary, the assertion of a full 200 nautical mile EEZ that disregards the presence of Philippine land territory, and the disproportionate sanctions in response to an unfortunate outcome of Philippine law enforcement operations, are all acts of bad faith. They should be considered as an affront to the rights and dignity of the Philippines as a full-pledged and independent coastal State.

By encouraging their fishermen to ignore the fact that they are fishing in Philippine waters, and taking advantage of the weakness of Philippine naval and law enforcement assets, the Taiwanese government is officially sponsoring and condoning illegal, unreported, and unregulated (IUU) fishing in Philippine waters.

A number of international instruments condemn IUU fishing, and the Philippines should consider having Taiwan declared an IUU-sponsoring entity in bodies such as the Western and Central Pacific Fisheries Commission, so that the international community can take action against its entire fishing fleet everywhere in the world.

Furthermore, the recent conduct of military exercises in the north, and the threat that Taiwanese government is ready to send its navy into Philippine waters to protect its fishermen who fish illegally, may be considered as a threat of the use of force and tantamount to an act of aggression prohibited by international law. It is an open declaration that it will use force to take the country's marine fisheries in its EEZ.

By taking this course of action, the Taiwanese government transforms Taiwan into a rogue maritime nation, flaunting its military and economic assets against smaller, weaker coastal nations in order to appropriate their natural resources. It amounts to nothing less than official blackmail and extortion.

While Taiwan is not recognized as an independent state and is not a member of the United Nations, as an international actor it is still subject to the same basic rules of international relations. If Taiwan persists in these aggressive activities, the Philippines has sufficient reason to bring the matter to the attention of the UN Security Council as an act of aggression and a threat to regional peace and security instigated by a non-State actor.

Even if it later turns out that Philippine law enforcement authorities committed a serious mistake in law enforcement that caused the unfortunate death of a Taiwanese citizen, the country should not succumb to the completely unjustifiable and disproportionate reactions of the Taiwanese government.

The country's relative weakness in terms of economic and military might, and our OFWs' employment and the dependence of their families on their remittances, do not justify the strong-arm tactics that the Taiwanese government.

The Philippines should not act so timid and ashamed of enforcing its own laws and protecting its own natural resources, even if law enforcement leads to incidents such as this.

We may acknowledge our mistakes, but we should never bow to shameless bullying. - Rappler.com

The author is Assistant Professor, UP College of Law and Director, UP Institute for Maritime Affairs and Law of the Sea.

Standing firm against Taiwan's strong-arm tactics

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## Pinoy

iajj said:


> fu cking debazi and pino monkeys, scratching and fighting each other on chinese territory - time for china to snuff both monkeys like the animals that debazi macacas and pino macacas are.


do it now hepa thieves. let's see if you can.



sdjd2013 said:


> I don't know if people like you are just devoid of cognizance, or are you purposely leaving out details to distort the truth? Are saying because the incident happened south of Bataanes and therefore it is in PH territory? Where is the EEZ line on your map? Let me post a real map for you.


you can keep insisting that your tiny land and soon wasteland has it's own EEZ while it's not even internationally acknowledged. It's like calling yourself good-looking when clearly you are not or thinking you are intelligent but you are not. Study your own geography and you will know what is really yours and what is ours. The real problem is your people have been kept in the dark for too long that you are forced to believe what your coward leaders claims to be the truth.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Surprises in the crises with the Philippines*
By Chen Mei-chin 
Fri, May 24, 2013

The death of Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-cheng (&#27946;&#30707;&#25104, after Philippine Coast Guard personnel shot 52 bullets into a Taiwanese fishing boat, has raised tensions between the two nations. Taiwanese authorities and media have accused the Philippine government of &#8220;insincerity&#8221; when it apologized, but spoke of &#8220;unintended loss of life.&#8221;

While the death of a fisherman is tragic, the subsequent sequence of events shows a rush to judgment before it is clear what really happened.

Were warning shots fired? Was the fishing boat on a collision course with the Philippine vessel? 

Were there other ships in the area that witnessed the events? These questions need to be answered if we want to reach a fair and objective conclusion.

The location of the incident is also important. News reports say it occurred about 164 nautical miles (304km) southeast of Oluanpi (&#40285;&#38014;&#40763, but this is only 80km east of the Philippino island of Balintang. Technically this would put the incident within Taiwan&#8217;s 200 nautical mile (370km) Economic Exclusive Zone (EEZ), but it actually lies just outside Philippines&#8217; territorial waters.

*To make the claim that these are &#8220;disputed waters&#8221; is not responsible leadership. Would Taiwan accept Philippine fishing boats just outside its territorial waters off Taichung or Hualien? Not likely. 
*

Inflammatory language such as &#8220;cold-blooded murder,&#8221; as is being used on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs&#8217; Web site and by President Ma Ying-jeou (&#39340;&#33521;&#20061, is also irresponsible.

When Ma first took office he promised Washington that he would be a reliable partner and there would be no &#8220;surprises.&#8221; He said he would be a &#8220;peacemaker&#8221; and not a &#8220;troublemaker.&#8221; This episode has certainly surprised many in Washington, and shows that Ma lacks the leadership to be a true peacemaker. Observers were flabbergasted by the way Ma has handled this crisis.

The Philippine government initially offered to conduct a joint investigation, but this offer was rudely rejected by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Philippines twice extended apologies through personal emissaries of President Benigno Aquino III, but these were dismissed as &#8220;insincere&#8221; by a haughty Ma administration obsessed with getting a &#8220;government-to-government&#8221; apology.

Ironically, the Philippine response is in line with the &#8220;one China&#8221; concept that the Ma government has been strenuously pushing. As long as Ma&#8217;s government clings to this &#8220;one China&#8221; fallacy, it will be difficult for other nations to deviate from it. This latest episode clearly shows that adherance to &#8220;one China&#8221; perpetuates Taiwan&#8217;s international isolation.

It was also rather premature for the Ma government to issue an ultimatum, trying to force the Philippines to offer an apology, pay compensation and start fisheries talks before it was clear what the sequence of events was.

How can this conflict be resolved? First, it is essential that a clear and objective account of what actually happened is established. The Philippines is taking a lead in that, but Taiwan can help by not jumping to conclusions or making inflammatory accusations.

Second, if it is established that the Philippine Coast Guard used force unnecessarily or without provocation, compensation would be in order. If the crew broke established rules of engagement, then of course disciplinary measures would be called for.

Surprises in the crises with the Philippines - Taipei Times

*Taiwan is not a signatory of UNCLOS...so there's no basis of Taiwan claiming EEZ. *

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Notes on the Taiwan-Philippines Dispute by Ming-Sung Kuo *

*Legally speaking, the issue is whether the use of force is necessary for the Philippines Coast Guard to enforce its rights under Article 73, paragraph 1 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Preventing suspect poachers from 'fleeing' the jurisdiction of the coastal state concerned, including the disabling of suspect vessels by the use of arms, is a legitimate means to that end. *Whether the said Taiwanese vessel attempted to flee, which would be a crucial factor in determining on the legality (ie necessity in this case) of the Philippines Coast Guard's use of force, cannot be answered until all legal procedures, including a thorough investigation, are completed.

Premature reactions from Taiwan, official and civil, in the wake of this unfortunate incident have simply made matters more complicated. It is the principle of equal sovereignty, not sincerity, that is the cardinal rule of international relations. In terms of the post-incident investigation, which concerns the exercise of sovereign rights, I would say that it is the law enforcement authorities of the Philippines, including the prosecutors, not their Taiwanese counterpart, that has the primary jurisdiction. Taiwan&#8217;s unilateral dispatch of an investigative team to the Philippines without the latter&#8217;s consent (Note: notice is not consent) is unacceptable to any sovereign state.

Having said that, I do not mean that Taiwan cannot demand a role in the investigation. Nevertheless, demanding an official apology before the investigation was even launched was simply out of step with diplomatic protocols. No sovereign state would agree to such a demand in a legal dispute like this. In the immediate wake of the incident, Taiwan could have put pressure (which should be proportionate too) on the Government of the Philippines to expedite the investigation for sure but should not have demanded an official apology before the investigation was completed. *What makes matters more complicated is that it's unlikely that a sovereign state like the Philippines (or even the US) would make a formal government-to-government apology to Taiwan, which has no statehood under international law.* The 'extra mile' that the Government of the Philippines claimed it had gone probably referred to President Aquino's 'deep regret and apology' to the Lin family and the Taiwanese people when the investigation was still ongoing.

Sadly, denied statehood way too long, Taiwan doesn't understand how sovereign states interact with each other in the postwar international legal system. *Did the incident result from territorial disputes between Taiwan and the Philippines? No. Is there any territorial dispute over Batanes between Taiwan and the Philippines? No. If so, what is the point of sending armed forces near the territorial waters of the Philippines? To take an undisputed territory of the Philippines like Batanes away from the Philippines would be a blatant violation of Article 2 of the UN Charter. Put bluntly, it is an aggressive war. Or, conducting war games is just a way to put pressure on the Philippines. Doesn't this evoke the dated gunboat diplomacy in the imperial age? I don't think this is a wise way to win public opinions in the international society.*

In my view, the way that the Government of the Philippines responded to Taiwan's demands didn't suggest insincerity, although it did not make Taiwanese feel good either, which is what Taiwanese mean by &#35488;&#24847;. Unfortunately 'feel good' is not what international society is concerned about. Perhaps this is the root cause of Taiwan's frustration amidst this incident. I do agree that We the Taiwanese People have to fight on for the unfulfilled sovereignty. Yet, we should pick a good fight. Unfortunately this incident is not and the way it has been dealt with is unhelpful.

The View from Taiwan: Phils/Taiwan Mess Round Up: Links-n-stuff

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## shuttler

^^^those pinoy drama queens, wumaoclever bot, dispicable taiwanese right wings, dpp arse lickers will have their foot in their mouths when the report from the investigation is due to be released very soon!

1. there is no 'ramming" as claimed by the all-the-way lying pinoys
2. heavy spray of gun shots were identified at the bow and driving area - an attempt for cold blooded killing
3. the M-14 which caused the death of the skipper is identified
4. some 7 PCGs were involved in the cold blooded shooting frenzy
5. the details of the vid will be released
6. there is one PCG who appeared to have refused to follow the Head of the PCGs order to shoot at the Taiwanese boat

Pinoys, you have been lying and doing all the shameless cover-ups

If you want EEZ and UNCLO, China can step in, anytime!

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## Pinoy

The Chinese are the most vicious people in Asia. It's fair game for what happened for incursion of foreign territories and fishing grounds. The victim... he is not, criminal that is and deserves what he got. This is the same any other country would do in the same situation when faced with what could be poachers who will do anything to escape prosecution.


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## soaringeagle

Even Uncle Sam's border petrol will not spray bullets at known drug mules fleeing the scene at the US Mexico border.
But there are so many things that did not add up in this incident, it can not be simply explain by self defense, rage, or even miss judgement.
I am sure the issue will be over soon, as long as both side don't do anything foolish to escalate it further.
Sadly, I am also quite sure that we will never find out what is the truth behind it.


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## Fsjal

Pity for the fishermen. Killed by cold blooded coast guards, commanded by corrupted men who can't even run a nation properly.

I support a condemnation and sanctions on the Philippines. In fact, kick them out of the UN and make Taiwan a sovereign nation.

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## soaringeagle

Nope. Do not agree and will not happen.



Fsjal said:


> Pity for the fishermen. Killed by cold blooded coast guards, commanded by corrupted men who can't even run a nation properly.
> 
> I support a condemnation and sanctions on the Philippines. In fact, kick them out of the UN and make Taiwan a sovereign nation.

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## shuttler

Fsjal said:


> Pity for the fishermen. Killed by cold blooded coast guards, commanded by corrupted men who can't even run a nation properly.
> 
> I support a condemnation and sanctions on the Philippines. In fact,* kick them out of the UN and make Taiwan a sovereign nation*.



Taiwan has its sovereignty already looking west of the Strait
To establish legitimacy of the EEZ, China can step in anytime

Regardless of the EEZ (which according to the data records showing in favour of the Taiwanese), all other evidences are also against the Filippino government!

Just waiting on the investigation report to make these official!

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Watching video, Taiwan probers weep*
4:53 am | Friday, May 31st, 2013

MANILA, Philippines&#8212;Taiwanese investigators in Manila reportedly became emotional while watching a video of the encounter between the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) and a Taiwanese fishing vessel in the waters off the northern Philippines that resulted in the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman.

&#8220;Some of them cried and others uttered &#8216;it&#8217;s excessive,&#8217;&#8221; said the source who asked not to be named for lack of authority to speak on the parallel probe of the May 9 incident by Taiwanese and Philippine investigators working in both Taipei and Manila.

The source said several PCG personnel were shown in the video shooting at the Taiwanese vessel, the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28. Fisherman Hung Shih-cheng, 65, was killed.

The source described the video as close to two hours and showing the earlier activities of the boat, the MCS-3001, jointly manned by the PCG and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR).

*The footage, taken by one of the PCG personnel, showed that the Taiwanese fishing boat &#8220;sped toward the MCS-3001 and the two boats almost collided,&#8221; the source said.*

While a Taiwanese source earlier said that at least 40 bullet holes were found on the Taiwanese vessel, a National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) ballistics team was still checking the bullet trajectories as of Thursday evening.

Earlier, the Taiwanese investigators in Manila fired the high-powered firearms that the PCG had submitted to the NBI, to gather the slugs and compare them with the recovered slugs from the fishing boat.

As of press time on Thursday, the Taiwanese team was still talking to eight PCG personnel.
BFAR staff and nine other PCG personnel were questioned on Wednesday.

*Damage to bow seen*
In Taipei, Philippine investigators examined on Wednesday the Taiwanese fishing boat involved in the fatal shooting, collecting samples from the bow of the vessel after discovering minor damage there, the China Post reported Thursday.

Hsieh Chih-ming, head prosecutor of Pingtung District, told a press conference the Filipino investigators examined the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28 in a shipyard in southern Pingtung County&#8217;s Donggang township.

Accompanied by prosecutors and forensic staff, the Philippine team began its examination at 9 a.m. and took samples from the bow of the boat where they discovered a scratch, Hsieh said.

The crew of the boat, including skipper Hung Yu-chih, was also asked to board the vessel and take the Filipino investigators through the shooting.

The pieces of evidence collected could be important as the Philippines claims that the Taiwanese boat tried to ram its patrol boat, forcing PCG personnel to fire in self-defense.
&#8220;We will submit this evidence to Manila and we will make our evaluation of all this evidence together with the evidence that we have in Manila,&#8221; said Daniel Daganzo, chief of the NBI&#8217;s foreign liaison division and leader of the eight-member investigating team.

Meanwhile, NBI Director Nonnatus Rojas on Thursday said he had yet to see the complaint filed by 
the slain fisherman&#8217;s daughter so he could not say who had jurisdiction over it.
&#8220;We have yet to confirm that from our investigators and see the document, although as a matter of policy, no one is precluded from filing any complaint before the NBI. [But] we will handle it as part of our mandate to exhaustively investigate the incident,&#8221; said Rojas.&#8212;With a report from China Post/ANN

Watching video, Taiwan probers weep | Inquirer Global Nation

*Our gov't should upload the video on youtube.*


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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Look at the picture, the Taiwanese fishing boat is BIG, it's not small as what the Taiwanese want us to believe.*

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## Fsjal

^Are you blind?^

Dude, it's small. Look carefully

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*The huge Taiwanese fishing boat could definitely sink our fiberglass CG ship. It's definitely a LIE what the Taiwanese are portraying that Guang Da Xing No. 28 is too small to pose a danger to our CG ship.*


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## Snomannen

*Actually, It Was the Philippines That Bungled the Crisis with Taiwan*

By Dennis Halpin

Responding to a recent piece in The Diplomat, Dennis Halpin argues that the missteps were Manilas.



In his article How Taiwan Bungled the Philippine Crisis on May 21, J. Michael Cole indicated that Taipei missed a golden opportunity to de-escalate the situation. That was when Philippine President Aquino dispatched MECO Chairman Amadeo Perez to Taipei to convey his deep regret and apology over the unfortunate and unintended loss of life.

The fact is that the personal apology conveyed by Mr. Perez for the Philippine Coast Guards unintended killing of a Taiwan fisherman is certainly not enough of an assurance for Taipei to begin healing its wounds. It is, instead, another attempt by Manila to evade the Philippine governments responsibility in this tragedy.

Nuance is critical in diplomacy. Unfortunately, from day one, Manila has misused its diplomatic language in an attempt to reassure Taipei and, as a consequence, has bumbled into an avoidable row. The propitious time to cease escalation, as described by Mr. Cole, quickly passed by in the first few days. Manila missed a golden opportunity to seize the initiative and defuse the situation.

On May 10, one day after the Taiwan fishermans body was taken back to Taiwan and the public's outrage began to boil over, President Aquinos Deputy Spokesperson Abigail Valte defended the Philippine Coast Guard against the alleged aggressive act of the Taiwan fishing boat GDX 28. It was an aggressive act. The ramming of the boat into our vessel was certainly an aggressive act, so the PCG responded accordingly, she said. Obviously Manila was trying to paint the PCG's killing as an act of self-defense against an aggressor

That approach was badly received by the Taiwan public. If Manila is really serious about conducting a transparent and impartial investigation of the killing, as previously promised, how could the Philippine government prejudge the Taiwan fishing boat as the aggressor and certify its ramming into the PCG, given that Manila's investigation was not yet even completed? At this stage, Taiwan has a legitimate concern over Manilas attitude regarding the investigation of its own officials. 

After all, this situation is not too complicated for the public to understand. The claim that the attack was necessary to prevent a ramming of the Philippines Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) vessel by the Taiwan fishing boat appears ludicrous given the disparity in size and weight between the two ships. The Philippine government vessel was roughly six times the size of the Taiwanese fishing boat. In addition, according to Taiwan's initial investigation, there is no evidence of any ramming found at the fishing boat to support Manila's claim of self-defense.

In addition, fifty-nine bullet holes from Philippine officials automatic weapons fire were found to have punctured the fishing boats cockpit, where the crew of father and son were hiding. This clearly demonstrates that Philippine Coast Guard personnel showed no restraint whatsoever in their sustained shooting barrage into an unarmed vessel. The excessive use of force by the Philippine Coast Guard is a serious violation of international law. Mr. Cole, in his article, also agreed at least that it was a disproportionate response by the Philippine authorities. 

Manilas "finger-pointing" rhetoric greatly raised Taipeis concerns and was viewed by Taipei as a counterproductive attempt to preclude the Philippine governments responsibility to hold the perpetrators accountable. In the meantime, Beijing jumped in to strongly condemn Manilas misconduct as barbaric, which also escalated the media's sensationalistic coverage of this tragedy in Taiwan. 

The death of any countrys citizen overseas under disturbing, non transparent circumstances naturally draws the deep interest and concern of that nations people. An example of popular outcry over the killing of a citizen overseas involved the disappearance of American high school student Natalee Holloway under highly suspicious circumstances on the Caribbean Dutch Island of Aruba in the spring of 2005. Her case became a media sensation in the United States. The Dutch and Aruban authorities, seeing the high level of interest of the American people in the case and the potential adverse effects on bilateral relations, including tourism, quickly agreed to bring the FBI and other American official partners into the investigation.

According to some Philippine news reports, the FBI in fact has even undertaken many joint investigations with the Philippine National Bureau of Investigation and its National Police not only in incidents involving Americans killed in the country, but also in other cases, such as the alleged hacking by Filipino Muslim terrorists of a US telecom firm's website. 

Given the experience of other past criminal investigations, including that into the disappearance of U.S. citizen Natalee Holloway, the failure to gather and provide evidence, including that of a forensic nature, as soon as possible, greatly impedes a successful investigative outcome. Taiwan was asking for no more than this.

On May 11 the public outcry in Taiwan was already high. Understandably, Taipei was very concerned with Manilas evasive attitude in handling this crisis. As the aggrieved party, Taipei urged Manila on May 11 to agree within seventy-two hours to conduct a joint investigation, in addition to asking for a formal apology. Taipei also requested Manila to start negotiations of a bilateral fishery agreement to prevent this kind of tragedy from happening again in the future.

During this seventy-two hour period from May 11 to May 14, there was only silence between Taipei and Manila. If, at this critical moment Manila had taken immediate, consistent and concrete steps to build mutual trust with Taipei, the standoff would have been largely resolved. Taipei needed to be reassured but, regrettably, Manila kept sending the wrong signals. 

First, the Philippine Representative to Taiwan Antonio Basilio was not fully authorized by Manila to negotiate with his Taiwan counterparts. Basilios proposals were repeatedly overturned by his home office, as demonstrated in his four response letter drafts to his Taiwan counterparts. These responses deteriorated from his first version of offering a formal governmental apology down to his final offer of the Filipino peoples nonofficial apology. As time passed, Basilios credibility was also dramatically eroding. Manilas flip-flopping enhanced Taipeis perception that the Philippines lacked the political will to settle this dispute expeditiously. 

By the morning of May 15 both sides had exhausted their energy but the impasse remained. Taiwan Foreign Minister David Lin was severely criticized by the Taiwan public for being overly accommodating to the Philippines. After realizing all its requests would be put on hold, Taiwan announced its first stage of sanctions against the Philippines, effective on May 15 as previously scheduled. Unexpectedly the bigger shock came from Manila right away.

Right after Taipeis announcement of its first stage of sanctions on May 15, President Aquinos Spokesperson Edwin Lacierda announced that President Aquino had appointed MECO Chairman Amadeo Perez to be his personal representative who will convey his and the Filipino peoples deep regret and apology to the family of Mr. Hung Shi-chen as well as to the people of Taiwan over the unfortunate and unintended loss of life. As soon as the words unintended loss of life were uttered by Lacierda, his obviously insensitive response to the victims family immediately alienated the Taiwanese people. Manilas previous goodwill gesture was totally overshadowed by its questionable attitude of defining the killing as an unintended loss of life.

Unfortunately the Aquino administration seemed careless regarding the nuances of its diplomatic message. Manila kept insisting that its one China policy places restraint on its offering of an official governmental apology. The personal apology with the unwelcome mention of unintended loss of life, delivered by Perez in Taipei, in fact just added salt to Taipeis wounds. Manilas self-descriptive one China policy should not be used as an impediment to block Perez from simply stating an apology on behalf of the Philippine government.

Manilas repeated contention that the death of Taiwan fisherman Hong Shi-cheng represents unintended loss of life contradicts Philippine official claims that an ongoing investigation of the incident is being conducted. The fact that Manila has put forward the conclusion on unintended loss of life before the investigation is completed raises Taipeis legitimate concerns about the transparency and credibility of the entire Philippines-based investigation progress. Manilas self-defense approach is to put the cart before the horse and is viewed by Taipei as one more counterproductive attempt to preclude the Philippine governments responsibility under international law. Another misstep by the Aquino government was made later by Philippine Justice Secretary Leila De Lima, when she refused to conduct a joint investigation with Taiwan and not even to meet with the Taiwanese investigators in Manila. 

If the golden opportunity to de-escalate this row between Taipei and Manila really came at the time when Manila sent Perez to Taiwan on May 15, as Mr. Cole indicated, then Manilas above self-contradictory messages and its evasive and non-credible manner have seriously damaged its own ability to achieve the goal it desired. Accepting Perezs conditional and half-hearted apology would violate Taipeis public pledge to get to the bottom of the case, which the victims and their family members involved in this tragedy deserve. With very limited options, Taipei announced the second stage of sanctions against the Philippines at the end of May 15. 

As Mr. Cole mentioned, this Taiwan-Philippine dispute can be a case study in how initially skillful diplomacy can quickly be undermined by missed opportunities. However, it takes two to tango. Only by working constructively together can Taipei and Manila heal the still open wounds of this tragic incident and begin the restoration of a tranquil and positive bilateral relationship.

Fishing is one of the key conflict drivers in the South China Sea and fishing disputes in the area are on the rise. Several events in recent years highlight the significant role that fishermen and fishing activities play in territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

The long-term solution remains, of course, the negotiation of a bilateral Taiwan-Philippines fishery agreement, as Taiwan proposed, along the lines of that signed between Taipei and Tokyo this April. It effectively facilitates a rules-based mechanism to manage potential conflict. Resolution and final closure of this avoidable and heartbreaking tragedy requires a two-way street of communication and mutual cooperation.

Dennis Halpin was a House Foreign Affairs Committee senior committee staff member advising on Asian issues for over twelve years. Before that Mr. Halpin was a foreign service officer posted overseas in Taipei, Beijing and South Korea (Seoul and Pusan).

Actually, It Was the Philippines That Bungled the Crisis with Taiwan | The Diplomat

*Washington urged to help resolve Taiwan-Philippine row*

Washington, May 28 (CNA) A member of the U.S. Congress on Tuesday urged the U.S. State Department to help Taipei and Manila find a mutually acceptable resolution to their dispute over a Philippine patrol boat's attack on a Taiwanese fishing boat earlier this month.

Republican Rep. Jack Kingston of Georgia said it was disheartening to see two friends and allies of the United States in conflict.

"I urge the State Department to support a peaceful resolution to this tragic incident within the relevant international laws and treaties," Kingston said in a letter to Joseph Yun, acting assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific affairs.

"I value the relationship the United States holds with both of these states and hope we can facilitate a mutually supported resolution between Taiwan and the Philippines," he added.

The May 9 attack, which took place in waters where the exclusive economic zones of the two countries overlap, left 65-year-old fisherman Hung Shih-cheng dead and triggered a diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines.

Taiwan has demanded that the Philippine government offer an official apology, punish those responsible, compensate the victim's family and open bilateral negotiations on fishing rights.

Despite offering an apology in the name of its President Benigno Aquino III on May 15, Manila nevertheless described the killing as an "unintended loss of life" and did not address the three other demands to Taiwan's satisfaction.

To show its displeasure with what it perceived as Manila's insincere manner in handling the case, Taipei imposed a series of retaliatory measures against the neighboring country the same day.

In an article published Tuesday in The Diplomat, a Tokyo-based current affairs magazine covering the Asia Pacific region, American foreign affairs expert Dennis Halpin argued that it was the Philippines that bungled the crisis with Taiwan.

Halpin said Manila has misused diplomatic language from day one in its attempt to reassure Taipei and by defining the killing as "unintended," the Philippine government was attempting to evade its responsibility in the tragedy, which he said "just added salt to Taipei's wounds."

"Manila missed a golden opportunity to seize the initiative and defuse the situation," said Halpin, who was a foreign service officer posted overseas in East Asia and a senior House Foreign Affairs Committee staff member advising on Asian issues.

"If, at this critical moment, Manila had taken immediate, consistent and concrete steps to build mutual trust with Taipei, the standoff would have been largely resolved," he said.

He said Manila's contention that the killing was "unintended" contradicted Philippine official claims that an ongoing investigation of the incident was being conducted, because it put forward the conclusion before the investigation was completed.

"Manila's self-defense approach is to put the cart before the horse and is viewed by Taipei as one more counterproductive attempt to preclude the Philippine government's responsibility under international law," he noted.

Also, Halpin said Manila's claim that the attack was necessary to prevent a ramming of its vessel by the Taiwanese fishing boat "appears ludicrous," given that the Philippine vessel was roughly six times the size of the Taiwanese fishing boat.

The 59 bullet holes found to have punctured the fishing boat's cockpit were evidence of excessive use of force by the Philippine Coast Guard, which is a serious violation of international law, he said.

(By Tony Liao and Y.F. Low)

Washington urged to help resolve Taiwan-Philippine row | Politics | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

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## Bob Ong

Fsjal said:


> ^Are you blind?^
> 
> Dude, it's small. Look carefully


open your small eyes for you to see it


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## Bob Ong

Fsjal said:


> Pity for the fishermen. Killed by cold blooded coast guards, commanded by corrupted men who can't even run a nation properly.
> 
> I support a condemnation and sanctions on the Philippines. In fact, kick them out of the UN and make Taiwan a sovereign nation.


You have some serious severe inferiority complex amigo. You're in the wrong place. Sorry we're not doctors. 

Taiwan is in denial. WTF? it's a shame for the entire world that the result was not in favor of them despite of their premature over-reaction....but that's the truth..they make a joke of the day for me.


----------



## Zero_wing

KirovAirship said:


> *Actually, It Was the Philippines That Bungled the Crisis with Taiwan*
> 
> By Dennis Halpin
> 
> Responding to a recent piece in The Diplomat, Dennis Halpin argues that the missteps were Manila&#8217;s.
> 
> 
> 
> In his article &#8220;How Taiwan Bungled the Philippine Crisis&#8221; on May 21, J. Michael Cole indicated that Taipei missed a golden opportunity to de-escalate the situation. That was when Philippine President Aquino dispatched MECO Chairman Amadeo Perez to Taipei to convey his &#8220;deep regret and apology over the unfortunate and unintended loss of life.&#8221;
> 
> The fact is that the personal apology conveyed by Mr. Perez for the Philippine Coast Guard&#8217;s &#8220;unintended&#8221; killing of a Taiwan fisherman is certainly not enough of an assurance for Taipei to begin healing its wounds. It is, instead, another attempt by Manila to evade the Philippine government&#8217;s responsibility in this tragedy.
> 
> Nuance is critical in diplomacy. Unfortunately, from day one, Manila has misused its diplomatic language in an attempt to reassure Taipei and, as a consequence, has bumbled into an avoidable row. &#8220;The propitious time to cease escalation,&#8221; as described by Mr. Cole, quickly passed by in the first few days. Manila missed a golden opportunity to seize the initiative and defuse the situation.
> 
> On May 10, one day after the Taiwan fisherman&#8217;s body was taken back to Taiwan and the public's outrage began to boil over, President Aquino&#8217;s Deputy Spokesperson Abigail Valte defended the Philippine Coast Guard against the alleged &#8220;aggressive act&#8221; of the Taiwan fishing boat GDX 28. &#8220;It was an aggressive act. The ramming of the boat into our vessel was certainly an aggressive act, so the PCG responded accordingly,&#8221; she said. Obviously Manila was trying to paint the PCG's killing as an act of self-defense against an aggressor
> 
> That approach was badly received by the Taiwan public. If Manila is really serious about conducting a transparent and impartial investigation of the killing, as previously promised, how could the Philippine government prejudge the Taiwan fishing boat as the aggressor and certify its &#8220;ramming&#8221; into the PCG, given that Manila's investigation was not yet even completed? At this stage, Taiwan has a legitimate concern over Manila&#8217;s attitude regarding the investigation of its own officials.
> 
> After all, this situation is not too complicated for the public to understand. The claim that the attack was necessary to prevent a ramming of the Philippine&#8217;s Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) vessel by the Taiwan fishing boat appears ludicrous given the disparity in size and weight between the two ships. The Philippine government vessel was roughly six times the size of the Taiwanese fishing boat. In addition, according to Taiwan's initial investigation, there is no evidence of any ramming found at the fishing boat to support Manila's claim of self-defense.
> 
> In addition, fifty-nine bullet holes from Philippine officials&#8217; automatic weapons fire were found to have punctured the fishing boat&#8217;s cockpit, where the crew of father and son were hiding. This clearly demonstrates that Philippine Coast Guard personnel showed no restraint whatsoever in their sustained shooting barrage into an unarmed vessel. The excessive use of force by the Philippine Coast Guard is a serious violation of international law. Mr. Cole, in his article, also agreed at least that it was a disproportionate response by the Philippine authorities.
> 
> Manila&#8217;s "finger-pointing" rhetoric greatly raised Taipei&#8217;s concerns and was viewed by Taipei as a counterproductive attempt to preclude the Philippine government&#8217;s responsibility to hold the perpetrators accountable. In the meantime, Beijing jumped in to strongly condemn Manila&#8217;s misconduct as &#8220;barbaric,&#8221; which also escalated the media's sensationalistic coverage of this tragedy in Taiwan.
> 
> The death of any country&#8217;s citizen overseas under disturbing, non transparent circumstances naturally draws the deep interest and concern of that nation&#8217;s people. An example of popular outcry over the killing of a citizen overseas involved the disappearance of American high school student Natalee Holloway under highly suspicious circumstances on the Caribbean Dutch Island of Aruba in the spring of 2005. Her case became a media sensation in the United States. The Dutch and Aruban authorities, seeing the high level of interest of the American people in the case and the potential adverse effects on bilateral relations, including tourism, quickly agreed to bring the FBI and other American official partners into the investigation.
> 
> According to some Philippine news reports, the FBI in fact has even undertaken many joint investigations with the Philippine National Bureau of Investigation and its National Police not only in incidents involving Americans killed in the country, but also in other cases, such as the alleged hacking by Filipino Muslim terrorists of a US telecom firm's website.
> 
> Given the experience of other past criminal investigations, including that into the disappearance of U.S. citizen Natalee Holloway, the failure to gather and provide evidence, including that of a forensic nature, as soon as possible, greatly impedes a successful investigative outcome. Taiwan was asking for no more than this.
> 
> On May 11 the public outcry in Taiwan was already high. Understandably, Taipei was very concerned with Manila&#8217;s evasive attitude in handling this crisis. As the aggrieved party, Taipei urged Manila on May 11 to agree within seventy-two hours to conduct a joint investigation, in addition to asking for a formal apology. Taipei also requested Manila to start negotiations of a bilateral fishery agreement to prevent this kind of tragedy from happening again in the future.
> 
> During this seventy-two hour period from May 11 to May 14, there was only silence between Taipei and Manila. If, at this critical moment Manila had taken immediate, consistent and concrete steps to build mutual trust with Taipei, the standoff would have been largely resolved. Taipei needed to be reassured but, regrettably, Manila kept sending the wrong signals.
> 
> First, the Philippine Representative to Taiwan Antonio Basilio was not fully authorized by Manila to negotiate with his Taiwan counterparts. Basilio&#8217;s proposals were repeatedly overturned by his home office, as demonstrated in his four response letter drafts to his Taiwan counterparts. These responses deteriorated from his first version of offering a formal governmental apology down to his final offer of the Filipino people&#8217;s nonofficial apology. As time passed, Basilio&#8217;s credibility was also dramatically eroding. Manila&#8217;s flip-flopping enhanced Taipei&#8217;s perception that the Philippines lacked the political will to settle this dispute expeditiously.
> 
> By the morning of May 15 both sides had exhausted their energy but the impasse remained. Taiwan Foreign Minister David Lin was severely criticized by the Taiwan public for being overly accommodating to the Philippines. After realizing all its requests would be put on hold, Taiwan announced its first stage of sanctions against the Philippines, effective on May 15 as previously scheduled. Unexpectedly the bigger shock came from Manila right away.
> 
> Right after Taipei&#8217;s announcement of its first stage of sanctions on May 15, President Aquino&#8217;s Spokesperson Edwin Lacierda announced that President Aquino had appointed MECO Chairman Amadeo Perez to be &#8220;his personal representative who will convey his and the Filipino people&#8217;s deep regret and apology to the family of Mr. Hung Shi-chen as well as to the people of Taiwan over the unfortunate and unintended loss of life.&#8221; As soon as the words &#8220;unintended loss of life&#8221; were uttered by Lacierda, his obviously insensitive response to the victim&#8217;s family immediately alienated the Taiwanese people. Manila&#8217;s previous goodwill gesture was totally overshadowed by its questionable attitude of defining the killing as an &#8220;unintended loss of life.&#8221;
> 
> Unfortunately the Aquino administration seemed careless regarding the nuances of its diplomatic message. Manila kept insisting that its &#8220;one China policy&#8221; places restraint on its offering of an official governmental apology. The personal apology with the unwelcome mention of &#8220;unintended loss of life,&#8221; delivered by Perez in Taipei, in fact just added salt to Taipei&#8217;s wounds. Manila&#8217;s self-descriptive &#8220;one China policy&#8221; should not be used as an impediment to block Perez from simply stating an apology &#8220;on behalf of the Philippine government.&#8221;
> 
> Manila&#8217;s repeated contention that the death of Taiwan fisherman Hong Shi-cheng represents &#8220;unintended loss of life&#8221; contradicts Philippine official claims that an ongoing investigation of the incident is being conducted. The fact that Manila has put forward the conclusion on unintended loss of life before the investigation is completed raises Taipei&#8217;s legitimate concerns about the transparency and credibility of the entire Philippines-based investigation progress. Manila&#8217;s self-defense approach is to put the cart before the horse and is viewed by Taipei as one more counterproductive attempt to preclude the Philippine government&#8217;s responsibility under international law. Another misstep by the Aquino government was made later by Philippine Justice Secretary Leila De Lima, when she refused to conduct a joint investigation with Taiwan and not even to meet with the Taiwanese investigators in Manila.
> 
> If the golden opportunity to de-escalate this row between Taipei and Manila really came at the time when Manila sent Perez to Taiwan on May 15, as Mr. Cole indicated, then Manila&#8217;s above self-contradictory messages and its evasive and non-credible manner have seriously damaged its own ability to achieve the goal it desired. Accepting Perez&#8217;s conditional and half-hearted apology would violate Taipei&#8217;s public pledge to get to the bottom of the case, which the victims and their family members involved in this tragedy deserve. With very limited options, Taipei announced the second stage of sanctions against the Philippines at the end of May 15.
> 
> As Mr. Cole mentioned, this Taiwan-Philippine dispute can be &#8220;a case study in how initially skillful diplomacy can quickly be undermined by missed opportunities.&#8221; However, it takes two to tango. Only by working constructively together can Taipei and Manila heal the still open wounds of this tragic incident and begin the restoration of a tranquil and positive bilateral relationship.
> 
> Fishing is one of the key conflict drivers in the South China Sea and fishing disputes in the area are on the rise. Several events in recent years highlight the significant role that fishermen and fishing activities play in territorial disputes in the South China Sea.
> 
> The long-term solution remains, of course, the negotiation of a bilateral Taiwan-Philippines fishery agreement, as Taiwan proposed, along the lines of that signed between Taipei and Tokyo this April. It effectively facilitates a rules-based mechanism to manage potential conflict. Resolution and final closure of this avoidable and heartbreaking tragedy requires a two-way street of communication and mutual cooperation.
> 
> Dennis Halpin was a House Foreign Affairs Committee senior committee staff member advising on Asian issues for over twelve years. Before that Mr. Halpin was a foreign service officer posted overseas in Taipei, Beijing and South Korea (Seoul and Pusan).
> 
> Actually, It Was the Philippines That Bungled the Crisis with Taiwan | The Diplomat
> 
> *Washington urged to help resolve Taiwan-Philippine row*
> 
> Washington, May 28 (CNA) A member of the U.S. Congress on Tuesday urged the U.S. State Department to help Taipei and Manila find a mutually acceptable resolution to their dispute over a Philippine patrol boat's attack on a Taiwanese fishing boat earlier this month.
> 
> Republican Rep. Jack Kingston of Georgia said it was disheartening to see two friends and allies of the United States in conflict.
> 
> "I urge the State Department to support a peaceful resolution to this tragic incident within the relevant international laws and treaties," Kingston said in a letter to Joseph Yun, acting assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific affairs.
> 
> "I value the relationship the United States holds with both of these states and hope we can facilitate a mutually supported resolution between Taiwan and the Philippines," he added.
> 
> The May 9 attack, which took place in waters where the exclusive economic zones of the two countries overlap, left 65-year-old fisherman Hung Shih-cheng dead and triggered a diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines.
> 
> Taiwan has demanded that the Philippine government offer an official apology, punish those responsible, compensate the victim's family and open bilateral negotiations on fishing rights.
> 
> Despite offering an apology in the name of its President Benigno Aquino III on May 15, Manila nevertheless described the killing as an "unintended loss of life" and did not address the three other demands to Taiwan's satisfaction.
> 
> To show its displeasure with what it perceived as Manila's insincere manner in handling the case, Taipei imposed a series of retaliatory measures against the neighboring country the same day.
> 
> In an article published Tuesday in The Diplomat, a Tokyo-based current affairs magazine covering the Asia Pacific region, American foreign affairs expert Dennis Halpin argued that it was the Philippines that bungled the crisis with Taiwan.
> 
> Halpin said Manila has misused diplomatic language from day one in its attempt to reassure Taipei and by defining the killing as "unintended," the Philippine government was attempting to evade its responsibility in the tragedy, which he said "just added salt to Taipei's wounds."
> 
> "Manila missed a golden opportunity to seize the initiative and defuse the situation," said Halpin, who was a foreign service officer posted overseas in East Asia and a senior House Foreign Affairs Committee staff member advising on Asian issues.
> 
> "If, at this critical moment, Manila had taken immediate, consistent and concrete steps to build mutual trust with Taipei, the standoff would have been largely resolved," he said.
> 
> He said Manila's contention that the killing was "unintended" contradicted Philippine official claims that an ongoing investigation of the incident was being conducted, because it put forward the conclusion before the investigation was completed.
> 
> "Manila's self-defense approach is to put the cart before the horse and is viewed by Taipei as one more counterproductive attempt to preclude the Philippine government's responsibility under international law," he noted.
> 
> Also, Halpin said Manila's claim that the attack was necessary to prevent a ramming of its vessel by the Taiwanese fishing boat "appears ludicrous," given that the Philippine vessel was roughly six times the size of the Taiwanese fishing boat.
> 
> The 59 bullet holes found to have punctured the fishing boat's cockpit were evidence of excessive use of force by the Philippine Coast Guard, which is a serious violation of international law, he said.
> 
> (By Tony Liao and Y.F. Low)
> 
> Washington urged to help resolve Taiwan-Philippine row | Politics | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS



And yet it was taiwan who called it that and wanted to use force and threaten a real country with its economy which was dependent on people they were threatening which in our books is called kayabagian (arrogance) and katagahan (stupidity) and beaten up innocent people who was the contributors of the economic successes typical chineses and please stop with US connection already they said they were concern that's it they are not siding with us or you especially you playing the victim while the reason is because of your disregard of others is just typical of all of you chinese hence you think your far better of your neighbors again trouble making fools its just so typical mode of operation for your arrogance , If you have no evidence just constant stereotyping or your so called logic which is just unacceptable because historical title and legal jurisdiction is two different things but you people have been told this over and over again and yet nothing now a man's life was wasted due to your peoples arrogance and lack of respect for neighbors heck you can't even tell difference between murder and homicide well its your cross to bear.


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## shuttler

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Look at the picture, the Taiwanese fishing boat is BIG, it's not small as what the Taiwanese want us to believe.*





Fsjal said:


> ^Are you blind?^
> 
> Dude, it's small. Look carefully




I thought the fishing boat weight no more than 20 tons whereas the PCGs vessel weighs 1000 tons
*It is 1:50+*

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## Snomannen

[To whom it may concern]

1. When the $$ from Taiwan is needed, Taiwan is considered as a country, when there is a conflict, Taiwan suddenly becomes part of China, interesting;
2. Hail the Phil the greatest country in the world. Its people are most important as hell as well and everybody needs them. Bow down to the best country all of you. 
3. "Typical Chinese", hmm, yet someone keep calling other people racist and stereotyping in _its _any single post, kind of cute isn't it.
4. Ouch I am so sorry I don't know that simply posing third-party opinion/analysis/criticize is not allowed in this forum. Also I don;t know that people should only believe in whatever you tell the people since your are the most kick-*** country in the world. Evidence right? I am still waiting for the video. I'm sure that would be so interesting. 
5. blah blah blah. Trouble marking right? I have heard that some country just recently invaded its neighbor's land and kill their locals. But it is the best coutry in the world, it has the right to criticize the others no matter how bad itself also is. 
6. I don't really want to talk to a guy who have been using insulting words to other people for months, have no shame that laughing at other people's death, yet playing victim by calling other racist blah blah while doing the same thing or even worse.

Anyway I have promised myself that never get serious and waste so much time on a troll who can do nothing but acting like a broken radio. Lalala~

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## Zero_wing

KirovAirship said:


> [To whom it may concern]
> 
> 1. When the $$ from Taiwan is needed, Taiwan is considered as a country, when there is a conflict, Taiwan suddenly becomes part of China, interesting;
> 2. Hail the Phil the greatest country in the world. Its people are most important as hell as well and everybody needs them. Bow down to the best country all of you.
> 3. "Typical Chinese", hmm, yet someone keep calling other people racist and stereotyping in _its _any single post, kind of cute isn't it.
> 4. Ouch I am so sorry I don't know that simply posing third-party opinion/analysis/criticize is not allowed in this forum. Also I don;t know that people should only believe in whatever you tell the people since your are the most kick-*** country in the world. Evidence right? I am still waiting for the video. I'm sure that would be so interesting.
> 5. blah blah blah. Trouble marking right? I have heard that some country just recently invaded its neighbor's land and kill their locals. But it is the best coutry in the world, it has the right to criticize the others no matter how bad itself also is.
> 6. I don't really want to talk to a guy who have been using insulting words to other people for months, have no shame that laughing at other people's death, yet playing victim by calling other racist blah blah while doing the same thing or even worse.



Hahahahaha typical just typical


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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Taiwan probers leave Manila with controversial video of shooting incident*
Mark Merueñas,GMA NewsMay 31, 2013 9:50am

(Updated 12:26 p.m.) After nearly a week-long investigation in the Philippines, the Taiwanese team probing the May 9 killing of a fisherman left Manila on Friday with the most contentious piece of evidence &#8211; a purported video of the incident recorded by the Philippine Coast Guard.

The video may or may not be the smoking gun that will prove innocence or guilt. Both Philippine and Taiwanese authorities are mum about its specific contents, although Philippine officials have suggested the video will support their contention that the Coast Guard fired in self-defense and that the Taiwan boat was inside Philippine territorial waters.

Asked what the particular purpose of the Taiwanese team was in getting a copy of the video, Manila Economic and Cultural Office (MECO) chairman Amadeo Perez said: "Maybe they need it for them to complete their investigation."

Apart from the video provided by the Coast Guard, the Taiwanese team carried with them various documents and testimonies they obtained from their four-day investigation in Manila.

"Iyong video (na) ibinigay ay pinakita muna uli sa Coast Guard at kinopya at signed by Coast Guard," Perez said. He added that the Department of Justice (DOJ) gave the permission to give the Taiwanese a copy of the video for the sake of "transparency."

The seven Taiwanese investigators and prosecutors left Manila at 10:30 a.m. via China Air, he said.

Taiwan probers leave Manila with controversial video of shooting incident | News | GMA News Online

*What's taking so long for the Taiwanese to upload the video??? Are they still editing the portion of the video when the Taiwanese fishing boat tried to ram our Philippine CG ship???*


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## WuMaoCleverbot

*Boat &#8216;did not ram Philippine vessel&#8217;*
Fri, May 31, 2013
&#8216;REVEALING&#8217;:Taiwanese investigations appear to contradict Manila&#8217;s initial account of the shooting, while Philippine investigators are examining bullets found on the boat

Staff writer, with CNA, Manila and Taipei

Boat ?did not ram Philippine vessel? - Taipei Times

*This is how Taiwan would save face...thru half-truths. Deceitful Taiwanese media.*


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## soaringeagle

Cool down now sir, as a joint investigation I am sure the whole process will have been monitored and recorded by the other side's delegate.

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## Zero_wing

They just have to accept the outcome


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## soaringeagle

Agree, that goes for both side.



Zero_wing said:


> They just have to accept the outcome


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## Zero_wing

Liang said:


> Military response will not benefit anyone, more diplomatic response is needed in my humble opinion.



It would be the good course of action but MA is just using the incident to get political mileage to the public in the expense of my countrymens safety and what little diplomatic relations we have.


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## WuMaoCleverbot

*'Unintentional shooting' of Taiwanese fisherman clearly happened within PH - De Lima*
By: Marlene Alcaide, InterAksyon.com
June 3, 2013 2:18 PM

MANILA &#8211; The May 9 "unintentional" shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman off Batanes waters clearly took place within Philippine territory, Justice Secretary Leila de Lima said Monday.

*Ahead of any release of official findings from either the Philippine of Taiwan sides, De Lima said the global positioning system (GPS) of the Philippine Coast Guard ship involved in the incident showed that the Philippine vessel never left national waters.*

The justice secretary said Taiwanese and Filipino investigators will meet again to discuss their respective conclusions. Even before such a meeting could be scheduled, however, De Lima insisted Philippine forces never left the country's boundaries.

"When everything is prepared and everybody's ready to issue a report, there will be a meeting," she said in Filipino. Asked if the results of the investigation may yet change, De Lima said it depends on the National Bureau of Investigation. But until the NBI director signs it, she added, the report can still be revised.

In an earlier press conference by the NBI, officials said the investigations of Taiwan and the Philippines are separate. They said they would stand by the results of their own probe.

De Lima also refused to comment on the reported plan of the slain Taiwanese fisherman&#8217;s family to file a case in Manila.

&#8220;At this point I cannot be confirming or denying anything'" De Lima said. "Let&#8217;s just wait for (the report). It's difficult to be commenting on things (that are still on the drawing board)."

After the incident, Taiwan stopped issuing visas to Filipino tourists and workers. It has asked the Philippines for: an official apology, compensation for the victim's family, prosecution of the one(s) who killed the fisherman, and talks on a fishing agreement. 

Taiwan rejected the Philippines' apology for calling the incident an "unintentional" shooting.

'Unintentional shooting' of Taiwanese fisherman clearly happened within PH - De Lima - InterAksyon.com


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## faithfulguy

In the mean time, Taiwan should tax the hell out of the remittance to Philippine.


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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> In the mean time, Taiwan should tax the hell out of the remittance to Philippine.



Ha that's good then after no one will want to work in stupid taewan anymore like i said before taewan is just a steeping stone its not important place to work anyway and the salary is too low for average ofws and nice the economy is picking up soon ofw will be a thing of the past a lot of them are considering coming hope to set up business here.

So you can kiss your economy good bye arrogant jerk  please do so do everything and the mean time tell your people never to come here again majority are criminals anyway so go back to were you came from and don't let the door hit your @$$e$ on the way out!


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## sdjd2013

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *'Unintentional shooting' of Taiwanese fisherman clearly happened within PH - De Lima*
> By: Marlene Alcaide, InterAksyon.com
> June 3, 2013 2:18 PM
> 
> MANILA  The May 9 "unintentional" shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman off Batanes waters clearly took place within Philippine territory, Justice Secretary Leila de Lima said Monday.
> 
> *Ahead of any release of official findings from either the Philippine of Taiwan sides, De Lima said the global positioning system (GPS) of the Philippine Coast Guard ship involved in the incident showed that the Philippine vessel never left national waters.*
> 
> The justice secretary said Taiwanese and Filipino investigators will meet again to discuss their respective conclusions. Even before such a meeting could be scheduled, however, De Lima insisted Philippine forces never left the country's boundaries.
> 
> "When everything is prepared and everybody's ready to issue a report, there will be a meeting," she said in Filipino. Asked if the results of the investigation may yet change, De Lima said it depends on the National Bureau of Investigation. But until the NBI director signs it, she added, the report can still be revised.
> 
> In an earlier press conference by the NBI, officials said the investigations of Taiwan and the Philippines are separate. They said they would stand by the results of their own probe.
> 
> De Lima also refused to comment on the reported plan of the slain Taiwanese fishermans family to file a case in Manila.
> 
> At this point I cannot be confirming or denying anything'" De Lima said. "Lets just wait for (the report). It's difficult to be commenting on things (that are still on the drawing board)."
> 
> After the incident, Taiwan stopped issuing visas to Filipino tourists and workers. It has asked the Philippines for: an official apology, compensation for the victim's family, prosecution of the one(s) who killed the fisherman, and talks on a fishing agreement.
> 
> Taiwan rejected the Philippines' apology for calling the incident an "unintentional" shooting.
> 
> 'Unintentional shooting' of Taiwanese fisherman clearly happened within PH - De Lima - InterAksyon.com



First it was "self-defense" now it's unintentional. Is self-defense not an intentional act? Waffling biatchs. FYI the NBI is still using stone-age tools like chop sticks to determine trajectories, and they couldn't figure out which gun that Taiwan took ONE hour to pin-point. Oh, By the way, your PCG guards said, during a video-taped deposition, that they perceived no attempt of ramming. And they said there was no GPS onboard of the MC-3001. So, I don't know WTF your media be talking about outta their *****, and you guys should blow it out the same way, or better yet, stop spewing diarrhea from your mouths.


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## 26-K

Don't kid anyone, you flips would kill for a chance to work in country like Taiwan, compared to the pathetic excuse of a country you call philippines. philippines economy is nothing compared to Taiwan and you know it.


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## Zero_wing

26-K said:


> Don't kid anyone, you flips would kill for a chance to work in country like Taiwan, compared to the pathetic excuse of a country you call philippines. philippines economy is nothing compared to Taiwan and you know it.



Really you mean the country that is one of Asia rising heck they are dependent on us anyway arrogance same old same old really why people just leave my country alone go back the hell you came from oh ya Enjoy your karma 

Oh speaking of kong kong

Pinoy fans hurt as Azkals' friendly game in Hong Kong turns unfriendly
June 5, 2013 11:10am
In a bizarre turn of events, the friendly game of the Philippine national football team Azkals on Tuesday evening turned "unfriendly" as some fans of the Hong Kong team allegedly threw trash and hurled invectives at the fans of the Philippine team.

[Related: Azkals beat Hong Kong for the first time, behind mammoth Neil Etheridge performance]

Posts on the Facebook page of the Azkals said some of the Filipino fans who suffered abuse were women and children.

The Azkals, under manager Dan Palami and coach Michael Weiss, defeated the home team 1-0 on Tuesday at the Mong Kok Stadium in Kowloon, Hong Kong.

James Younghusband scored the lone goal of the Philippine team 33 minutes into the game. It was the Philippine team's first-ever win over the Hong Kong team.

"The win of the Philippines over Hong Kong was the FIRST TIME in seven attempts between the two sides with the last result between the two was in 2011 in a 3-3 draw in the Long Teng Cup," the Azkals said on its page.

On Twitter, the Azkals said: "Sa mga kababayan natin na sumuporta at nanood ng laban kontra Hong Kong, maraming salamat sa inyong lahat! Para bansa ang panalo nating ito!"

Also on Twitter, some fans shared stories about the reported abuse experienced by the Filipino fans.

Ida Torres &#8207;@idagurl: yeah it was really awful. We've been to a few away games before in other countries but we were never treated this way 

Ida Torres &#8207;@idagurl: what makes it worse is that most of the Pinoys were women and there were some kids. Hay, remembering it makes me angry again


Some Filipino tweeps who were present during the friendly game said some Hong Kong fans were already rowdy during the start of the match-up, even going so far as booing the Philippine national anthem while it was being played.

Ida Torres @idagurl: National Anthem pa lang, they were booing us already. Was crying while singing coz I was so proud to be holding our flag

uncivilized to the max
Andi @andinesss: They were booing our national anthem. They were raising their middles fingers. Cursing the pinoy crowd and players. No fairplay.

Boyet J. Sison@BoyetJSison: reading on what happened last night at the Azkals-HK match...there were fans who boood while our anthem was playing, and were unruly.


Some fans reacted to the news via Facebook:

Al Peter: Don't generalize; only some Hong Kong fans; we should refrain from using any ethnic reference here, many Fil-Chinese are hardcore Azkal fans also.

Jill Esteva Forde: Don't read any generalization there or ethnic reference...what about calling us a country of slaves? . - Veronica Pulumbarit, GMA News


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## bleedingboi

Guys, Guys. In the event of a cataclysmal war where China decide on occupying Taiwan and converting policies into Communism, only Taiwan and the Philippines can work hand in hand in avoiding casualties where refugees needs to be evacuated to the nearest Philippine islet. We need to end this turmoil, both are allies and always will be, unless Taiwan shifts sides.

Bottomline is this...

1. What's done is done, the death was a loss, but we cannot complicate the issue further. (Keyboard warriors, take note.)
2. Bilateral investigation has begun and concluded, we need to wait and let the tensions cool off.
3. The Philippine coast Guard, if mistakes were made, must be very vigilant next time on Patrol Protocols to avoid mishaps. But they still have the right to arrest any intruders.
4. Initially, Taiwan was simply over-reacting and should also remember that the military assistance rendered by the United States to them is for them to defend from Chinese aggression. Not from it's allies (Philippines).
Using American military wares to hurt or intimidate one of its treaty allies may have implications against Taiwan. The US may set sanctions against them. So any "mini navy" war between RP and Taiwan will never likely happen.


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## bleedingboi

26-K said:


> Don't kid anyone, you flips would kill for a chance to work in country like Taiwan, compared to the pathetic excuse of a country you call philippines. philippines economy is nothing compared to Taiwan and you know it.



You can say the same thing to Hongkong. If it weren't for the superior British Brilliance in managing HK economy and policies, your tiny little community would still be a Chinese fishing village today. 

All factions started from scratch, there's no reason to bully any developing nation for being economically-lagged, we can only give them time to grow. Singapore once did, Hongkong once did, Iceland once did, look what they are now.


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## Zero_wing

They should stop killing endanger spices and stealing from their neighbors period


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## sdjd2013

bleedingboi said:


> You can say the same thing to Hongkong. If it weren't for the superior British Brilliance in managing HK economy and policies, your tiny little community would still be a Chinese fishing village today.
> 
> All factions started from scratch, there's no reason to bully any developing nation for being economically-lagged, we can only give them time to grow. Singapore once did, Hongkong once did, Iceland once did, look what they are now.



I am tired of hearing white superiority complex. UK can't even afford a navy any more due to your own economic policies. You guys didn't do jack for HK, except tax the shi t outta of them and let them be. They don't have to respect the law as long as they pay homage to the governor, the same way you guys managed Singapore, until the Japs kicked you guys out of SE asia.

I would say westerners had better tread carefully, cuz if Taiwan is lost to China, then China's front door would be wide open, and NO ONE in SE Asia can compete with Taiwan while China and Russia keeps the Japs and U.S. in check.

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## sdjd2013

That's why Ma should wake up and realize the importance of Taiwan and utilize its importance to its advantage. **** the rust buckets they buy from the U.S. It's an extortion for protection fees, while Taiwan overlooks its own ability to achieve glory. Do you guys know how many people from Taiwan make history all over the world? We should not take any BS from anyone in the world. We should all band together to help preserve OUR way of lives, our values, our beliefs, without any pontiffs telling us how we should behave and who we should serve. The Banshi incident has revealed our limit and it is the LAST STRAW. DON'T TAKE ANY MORE BS FROM ANYONE, ESPECIALLY THE AMERICANS. U.S. would not dare to fire on Taiwanese vessels, and if Obama loses Taiwan, the democrats will not be in office for decades to come... I GUARANTEE YOU 100%


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> That's why Ma should wake up and realize the importance of Taiwan and utilize its importance to its advantage. **** the rust buckets they buy from the U.S. It's an extortion for protection fees, while Taiwan overlooks its own ability to achieve glory. Do you guys know how many people from Taiwan make history all over the world? We should not take any BS from anyone in the world. We should all band together to help preserve OUR way of lives, our values, our beliefs, without any pontiffs telling us how we should behave and who we should serve. The Banshi incident has revealed our limit and it is the LAST STRAW. DON'T TAKE ANY MORE BS FROM ANYONE, ESPECIALLY THE AMERICANS. U.S. would not dare to fire on Taiwanese vessels, and if Obama loses Taiwan, the democrats will not be in office for decades to come... I GUARANTEE YOU 100%



Oh please spare us your problems take load off and live in the real world


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## Viet

this thread has turned into one of the best running ones, with most replies and viewed. Congrat the troller Martian2.

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## bleedingboi

sdjd2013 said:


> I am tired of hearing white superiority complex. UK can't even afford a navy any more due to your own economic policies. You guys didn't do jack for HK, except tax the shi t outta of them and let them be. They don't have to respect the law as long as they pay homage to the governor, the same way you guys managed Singapore, until the Japs kicked you guys out of SE asia.



The truth is hurting you, right? 
And yet you bully and post racist comments against developing nations. 

All colonies are taxed, not only Hongkong. That's how it suppose to work. The "Chinese melon" was taxed by the Japs, French, UK, etc... South Africa by the Dutch.
Philippies was taxed by the US, Vietnam was taxed by the French, all of them were taxed. 

Let me re-write this short story for you...

If it weren't for the British, Hongkong would just be another fishing village south of China, this is true. All Hongkong natives were promised protection by the Brits, and are secured in the free exercise of their religious rites, ceremonies, and social customs; and in the enjoyment of their lawful private property and interests. Chinese natives would be governed under Chinese laws and that British subjects and foreigners would fall under British law. 



sdjd2013 said:


> I would say westerners had better tread carefully, cuz if Taiwan is lost to China, then China's front door would be wide open, and NO ONE in SE Asia can compete with Taiwan while China and Russia keeps the Japs and U.S. in check.



I really don't agree with you on Russia supporting China's move to broaden Communism in Southeast Asia.
Russia's policy is still much affected by Gorbachev's Glasnost reform, that any move supporting Communism would cause nationwide protests. This is something Vladimir Putin wants to avoid. 

So here's my conclusion:

If China wants to play big daddy, she's on her own.


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## Zero_wing

bleedingboi said:


> The truth is hurting you, right?
> And yet you bully and post racist comments against developing nations.
> 
> All colonies are taxed, not only Hongkong. That's how it suppose to work. The "Chinese melon" was taxed by the Japs, French, UK, etc... South Africa by the Dutch.
> Philippies was taxed by the US, Vietnam was taxed by the French, all of them were taxed.
> 
> Let me re-write this short story for you...
> 
> If it weren't for the British, Hongkong would just be another fishing village south of China, this is true. All Hongkong natives were promised protection by the Brits, and are secured in the free exercise of their religious rites, ceremonies, and social customs; and in the enjoyment of their lawful private property and interests. Chinese natives would be governed under Chinese laws and that British subjects and foreigners would fall under British law.
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't agree with you on Russia supporting China's move to broaden Communism in Southeast Asia.
> Russia's policy is still much affected by Gorbachev's Glasnost reform, that any move supporting Communism would cause nationwide protests. This is something Vladimir Putin wants to avoid.
> 
> So here's my conclusion:
> 
> If China wants to play big daddy, she's on her own.



Sir allow me to correct you one we are no longer a developing nation we are a newly industrialized nation with limited industries due to bad economic decisions and second let it good this chinese @holes do not understand anything but their so called logic they maybe old but in terms of understanding people and being good a neighbor they are way behind everyone else


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## sdjd2013

please, you don't know the truth if it bit you in the as s. The fact is you are basking in self-adulation, and HK people would have prospered no matter who ruled it, except perhaps during the cultural revolution. Case in point, Shanghai. When Shanghai was carved up by Europeans in the early 20th century, it didn't prosper. It was just like Singapore where whorehouses and gambling halls run amuck.

You people obviously do not know anything about China. There is more freedom than meets the eye, even though it is a one-party ruled state. The fact is, Mainland China for the first time has unified and officially recognized as a country by the world since the end of the 19th century. What is communism? it doesn't exist any more. There is only centralized government. The basic ideology of revolution by violence no longer holds valid, as admitted by Russia. True, Russia has closer ties to Eruope than Asia, but by the principle that enemy of the enemy is a friend, Russia would love nothing more than taking over northern Japan and share the pacific ocean with China. That's the truth!



Zero_wing said:


> Sir allow me to correct you one we are no longer a developing nation we are a newly industrialized nation with limited industries due to bad economic decisions and second let it good this chinese @holes do not understand anything but their so called logic they maybe old but in terms of understanding people and being good a neighbor they are way behind everyone else



go back to school son. Learn how to write first, then how to think, before spewing diarrhea with your pen.


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## sdjd2013

In case you people say, "why don't you go back to China"? FYI, many people have, from the U.S. and from Taiwan. I didn't come here by free will, but I certainly may leave on free will when the time is right. If the U.S. proves to be a hypocrite by supporting a nation that does not respect human rights, when it throws the issue in China's face constantly, then I'd say the U.S. is no better than China. I am certain when that time comes, many descendants of Taiwan in the U.S. will follow, and then the U.S. will have a massive brain drain of the century. we are tired of living in a country of bigots. U.S. can ask PH to defend it in the Pacific.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> please, you don't know the truth if it bit you in the as s. The fact is you are basking in self-adulation, and HK people would have prospered no matter who ruled it, except perhaps during the cultural revolution. Case in point, Shanghai. When Shanghai was carved up by Europeans in the early 20th century, it didn't prosper. It was just like Singapore where whorehouses and gambling halls run amuck.
> 
> You people obviously do not know anything about China. There is more freedom than meets the eye, even though it is a one-party ruled state. The fact is, Mainland China for the first time has unified and officially recognized as a country by the world since the end of the 19th century. What is communism? it doesn't exist any more. There is only centralized government. The basic ideology of revolution by violence no longer holds valid, as admitted by Russia. True, Russia has closer ties to Eruope than Asia, but by the principle that enemy of the enemy is a friend, Russia would love nothing more than taking over northern Japan and share the pacific ocean with China. That's the truth!
> 
> 
> 
> go back to school son. Learn how to write first, then how to think, before spewing diarrhea with your pen.



Why should i take your advice respect your neighbors imperial then i follow you

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## filipino_american

sdjd2013 said:


> In case you people say, "why don't you go back to China"? FYI, many people have, from the U.S. and from Taiwan. I didn't come here by free will, but I certainly may leave on free will when the time is right. If the U.S. proves to be a hypocrite by supporting a nation that does not respect human rights, when it throws the issue in China's face constantly, then I'd say the U.S. is no better than China. I am certain when that time comes, many descendants of Taiwan in the U.S. will follow, and then the U.S. will have a massive brain drain of the century. we are tired of living in a country of bigots. U.S. can ask PH to defend it in the Pacific.



Then have China take Taiwan when you return back to Taiwan. Then start talking about human rights. But I doubt I will ever see your posts again here. I doubt the CCP would allow you.


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## bleedingboi

sdjd2013 said:


> please, you don't know the truth if it bit you in the as s. The fact is you are basking in self-adulation, and HK people would have prospered no matter who ruled it, except perhaps during the cultural revolution. Case in point, Shanghai. When Shanghai was carved up by Europeans in the early 20th century, it didn't prosper. It was just like Singapore where whorehouses and gambling halls run amuck.
> 
> You people obviously do not know anything about China. There is more freedom than meets the eye, even though it is a one-party ruled state. The fact is, Mainland China for the first time has unified and officially recognized as a country by the world since the end of the 19th century. What is communism? it doesn't exist any more. There is only centralized government. The basic ideology of revolution by violence no longer holds valid, as admitted by Russia. True, Russia has closer ties to Eruope than Asia, but by the principle that enemy of the enemy is a friend, Russia would love nothing more than taking over northern Japan and share the pacific ocean with China. That's the truth!





It can be true, Britain's rule was OCCASIONALLY marked by incidents of arrogance, abuse, and setbacks, these things happen, every colonizer can admit. But it encouraged traditions of a civil society, the rule of law, charity, education, and the English language. 

PICTURE THIS:

If Hong Kong is the assumption of the Chinese for 99 years, battled through the regimes of Chairman Mao, If Active democracy is not present to maintain economic dynamism. If the Chinese place onerous restrictions on the press, 
1. Will they affect the confidence of investors? 
2. If the tradition of British justice is overridden by courts under Communist Party control, will they discourage businesses that want a stable climate for their future?
3. Will it be the same prosperous Hongkong of today? I guess not.

The British may not leave behind the sturdy oak of democracy, we may have committed some few mistakes, but we have planted important seeds. This is something you Hongkongers should never forget.


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## grey boy 2

bleedingboi said:


> The British may not leave behind the sturdy oak of democracy, we may have committed some few mistakes, but we have planted important seeds. This is something you Hongkongers can never forget.



Thankyou "British white man" for your contributions as to "planted impotent demo crazy seeds for us Hongkongers, thanks again





Will you please say hi to your twin brother for me as well?

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## bleedingboi

grey boy 2 said:


> Thankyou "British white man" for your contributions as to "planted impotent demo crazy seeds for us Hongkongers, thanks again
> Will you please say hi to your twin brother for me as well?



Not very mature discussing something "healthy" with you mate. You take photos off some random twitter account, that how you work things. : )

Very sad.


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## iajj

sdjd2013 said:


> I am tired of hearing white superiority complex. UK can't even afford a navy any more due to your own economic policies. You guys didn't do jack for HK, except tax the shi t outta of them and let them be. They don't have to respect the law as long as they pay homage to the governor, the same way you guys managed Singapore, until the Japs kicked you guys out of SE asia.
> 
> I would say westerners had better tread carefully, cuz if Taiwan is lost to China, then China's front door would be wide open, and NO ONE in SE Asia can compete with Taiwan while China and Russia keeps the Japs and U.S. in check.



no, debazi, it is you who should be careful. we want to assrape you, true. now to the extent that you debazi want to avoid being assraped by us, you have to throw yourself to the embrace of nipponzi, bonzi and even pino macacas. if the pino macacas can measure the true extent to which you debazi want to avoid assrape by us, then these pino macacas can make the same assrape demand of you, and to the extent that you want to avoid the assrape by the chinese, you debazi would have to accept being assraped by pino macacas.

the killing of debazi at the hands of these macacas serves debazi EXACTLY right because killing debazi is EXACTLY what china is planning on.

the lesson is: if you are as weak as spineless as debazi, you get assraped either way

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## bleedingboi

grey boy 2 said:


> Will you please say hi to your twin brother for me as well?




As you might understand, I rarely put my own working email address on forums, you are actually putting my asistant's photo, he's laughing at it right now. 


Not safe registering email addresses here, just a hint...


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## sdjd2013

filipino_american said:


> Then have China take Taiwan when you return back to Taiwan. Then start talking about human rights. But I doubt I will ever see your posts again here. I doubt the CCP would allow you.



Where do you think this forum came from? Pakistan? really?


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## sdjd2013

grey boy 2 said:


> Thankyou "British white man" for your contributions as to "planted impotent demo crazy seeds for us Hongkongers, thanks again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will you please say hi to your twin brother for me as well?



ROFL LMAO ROFL LMAO ROFL LMAO



iajj said:


> no, debazi, it is you who should be careful. we want to assrape you, true. now to the extent that you debazi want to avoid being assraped by us, you have to throw yourself to the embrace of nipponzi, bonzi and even pino macacas. if the pino macacas can measure the true extent to which you debazi want to avoid assrape by us, then these pino macacas can make the same assrape demand of you, and to the extent that you want to avoid the assrape by the chinese, you debazi would have to accept being assraped by pino macacas.
> 
> the killing of debazi at the hands of these macacas serves debazi EXACTLY right because killing debazi is EXACTLY what china is planning on.
> 
> the lesson is: if you are as weak as spineless as debazi, you get assraped either way



very intellectual of you.. I guess I really pissed you off last time we spoke. I am sure the rest of the Chinese population don't want to assrape anyone. But don't worry, I will add some flavor in my cum tonite for your mom, fag.


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## sdjd2013

by the way, tell your mom I owe her $2.50 for the last blow job, but money is tight, so I'll pay her $1.50 tonite.


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## HongWu

grey boy 2 said:


> Thankyou "British white man" for your contributions as to "planted impotent demo crazy seeds for us Hongkongers, thanks again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will you please say hi to your twin brother for me as well?


Hanging from the tree like a baboon.

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## sdjd2013

bleedingboi said:


> It can be true, Britain's rule was OCCASIONALLY marked by incidents of arrogance, abuse, and setbacks, these things happen, every colonizer can admit. But it encouraged traditions of a civil society, the rule of law, charity, education, and the English language.
> 
> PICTURE THIS:
> 
> If Hong Kong is the assumption of the Chinese for 99 years, battled through the regimes of Chairman Mao, If Active democracy is not present to maintain economic dynamism. If the Chinese place onerous restrictions on the press,
> 1. Will they affect the confidence of investors?
> 2. If the tradition of British justice is overridden by courts under Communist Party control, will they discourage businesses that want a stable climate for their future?
> 3. Will it be the same prosperous Hongkong of today? I guess not.
> 
> The British may not leave behind the sturdy oak of democracy, we may have committed some few mistakes, but we have planted important seeds. This is something you Hongkongers should never forget.



democracy can be a double-edged sword. HK is the capital of piracy, counterfeits, and money laundering. HBSC was fined 5 billion for laundering money for drug dealers by the U.S. I wonder who planted that seed? English may have affected my thinking, but it has not affected my ability to see the truth, as do many people including Congressman Chabot and Samoan guy (no offense, can't recall his name), and the rest of the Taiwan population, but not people like you and Dr. Death, apparently, who don't think extortion and harassment of Taiwanese fishermen on the high seas is an affront, and who continues to believe Taiwan is chess pawn that can be manipulated. I'd say it's time believers of Sun Yatsun rise from the ashes and show the world what we are about. **** YOU ALL!!


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## iajj

sdjd2013 said:


> ROFL LMAO ROFL LMAO ROFL LMAO
> 
> 
> 
> very intellectual of you.. I guess I really pissed you off last time we spoke. I am sure the rest of the Chinese population don't want to assrape anyone. But don't worry, I will add some flavor in my cum tonite for your mom, fag.



i preach about international politics. you preach about your short debazi penis whose growth was stunted by all the additives you debazi so like to add to your food. that is the comparison of the nobility of chinese and debazi


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## HongWu

grey boy 2 said:


>


boi = gay man who is submissive
bleedingboi = gay man bleeding from the...

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## Fsjal

What just happened to this thread?

Anyway, pity for bleeding boi.



HongWu said:


> boi = gay man who is submissive
> bleedingboi = gay man bleeding from the...



Bleeding from where?





HongWu said:


> Hanging from the tree like a baboon.



Reminds me of one


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## Zero_wing

Man that's good keep up with the stupid racist comments your arrogant fools we all know how this going to end up


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## bleedingboi

HongWu said:


> boi = gay man who is submissive
> bleedingboi = gay man bleeding from the...





HongWu said:


> Hanging from the tree like a baboon.





I was starting to like this forum, talked to a number of Indians, Filipinos, Thais, Viets, Pakistanis, and they're really good with discussions about military updates and war histories (this is the reason I joined this forum). Not until some bunch of Chinese PUNKS start swarming up on you like flies for one bad post. 

I'm a middle-aged man who works with eBay.UK, MY family name is Sorensen, my father is half Norwegian in ancestry, my mother is an O'brien Scottish, living in Nottingham. It really won't bother me, if some Ch*nk calls me Thai, Indian, Filipino, Viet, Malaysian, etc... because of me using my Asian associate's email address and user ID instead of mine to register here. These minorities are well respected and admired in the west - COMPARED TO THE CHINESE. You can say anything, anytime you want, No big deal.
(Two years ago, my PayPal account was hacked, since the email address linked to my PayPal is registered on some foreign forum used by hackers, - I WILL NEVER USE MY EMAIL AGAIN FOR FORUM REGISTRATIONS)

I don't even know why I'm responding to these comments, honestly, you Ch*nks don't deserve even one nick of my time. 
Of the three most hated races on Earth, (Blacks, Jews, Chinese), I don't agree with the first two, I appreciate Jews and Blacks, but looking at the behavior of some Chinese on this forum and how they discriminate other enthnicities and ballwash some comments, I see the reason why on the latter.

To the Pakistani admins, what's my take on this? Do I ignore these yellow-skinned, cat-eating punks? Or Humiliate them back?


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## Zero_wing

Well if they keep this up they get theirs someday


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## WuMaoCleverbot

bleedingboi said:


> I was starting to like this forum, talked to a number of Indians, Filipinos, Thais, Viets, Pakistanis, and they're really good with discussions about military updates and war histories (this is the reason I joined this forum). *Not until some bunch of Chinese PUNKS start swarming up on you like flies for one bad post. *
> 
> I'm a middle-aged man who works with eBay.UK, MY family name is Sorensen, my father is half Norwegian in ancestry, my mother is an O'brien Scottish, living in Nottingham. It really won't bother me, if some Ch*nk calls me Thai, Indian, Filipino, Viet, Malaysian, etc... because of me using my Asian associate's email address and user ID instead of mine to register here. These minorities are well respected and admired in the west - COMPARED TO THE CHINESE. You can say anything, anytime you want, No big deal.
> (Two years ago, my PayPal account was hacked, since the email address linked to my PayPal is registered on some foreign forum used by hackers, - I WILL NEVER USE MY EMAIL AGAIN FOR FORUM REGISTRATIONS)
> 
> I don't even know why I'm responding to these comments, honestly, you Ch*nks don't deserve even one nick of my time.
> Of the three most hated races on Earth, (Blacks, Jews, Chinese), I don't agree with the first two, I appreciate Jews and Blacks, but looking at the behavior of some Chinese on this forum and how they discriminate other enthnicities and ballwash some comments, I see the reason why on the latter.
> 
> To the Pakistani admins, what's my take on this? Do I ignore these yellow-skinned, cat-eating punks? Or Humiliate them back?



They are just Chinese 50 center's here, posting useless comments. Many of them are false flaggers...using other country's flag.

*50 Cent Party Crashers*
posted by Megan on Mon, 11/09/2009 - 11:25

I spend a lot of time reading about China on the Internet. It's my job, but even before it was my job it was a very serious hobby. I also like to look through readers' comments. Articles on China often hit a nerve with readers, Chinese and American (or otherwise) alike, and generate fierce debates, sometimes hundreds of comments even on a relatively brief article. *But in the past few years these debates have been hijacked by the &#20116;&#27611;&#20826;(wu mao dang), or 50 Cent Party. They are the legion of young Chinese Internet users (some estimate there are 280,000 of them) who are paid 50 mao (roughly 7 cents) to post comments on blogs, news articles, bulletin boards, etc.* that are pro-Communist Party, essentially to drown out critical voices. While they are most active on Chinese-language sites, the 50 Cent Party has found its way onto message boards, blogs and other forums in Western media, too, even spearheading the campaign against CNN's Jack Cafferty for calling the leadership in Beijing a bunch of "goons and thugs." David Bandurski wrote a great article in the Far Eastern Economic Review last year about this phenomenon.

I take issue with the 50 Cent Party for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that it intimidates Chinese netizens into witholding their true opinions (not only do they drown out dissenting voices, the 50 Cent Party report back to their Communist Party bosses on exactly who is making the critical comments). But what is most frustrating for me personally is the way the 50 Cent Party has made genuine debate online about China virtually impossible. First of all, the tactics of the 50 Cent Party are tried and true debate-killers -- "You can't talk, America had slavery" and the like -- trying to shift the focus of the debate away from the issue at hand and questioning anyone's right to even discuss China outside of China. What's worse, I find myself assuming that any pro-government comment is paid for by the Communist Party, thus dismissing what could in fact be genuine comments that deserve a closer look. The world -- and China -- would benefit from honest, rigorous debate about Chinese government policy and its impact beyond its borders. But the 50 Cent Party is rendering this impossible. (Read more)

And, if I haven't depressed you enough, this quote from the aforementioned Bandurski article makes the prospect of genuine debate online even more grim:

"In 2004, an article on a major Chinese Web portal alleged that the United States Central Intelligence Agency and the Japanese government had infiltrated Chinese chat rooms with &#8220;Web spies&#8221; whose chief purpose was to post anti-China content. The allegations were never substantiated, but they are now a permanent fixture of China&#8217;s Internet culture, where Web spies, or wangte, are imagined to be facing off against the Fifty Cent Party."

None of this is to say I will stop reading the online commentary. In fact, despite the 50 Cent Party, despite the Great Firewall, I still see the Internet as an exciting force in Chinese society. I just wish the legions of paid pro-Communist Party commentators would quit crashing the party so the rest of us could have a more serious, productive debate.

50 Cent Party Crashers | Laogai Research Foundation

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## Wholegrain

iajj said:


> no, debazi, it is you who should be careful. we want to assrape you, true. now to the extent that you debazi want to avoid being assraped by us, you have to throw yourself to the embrace of nipponzi, bonzi and even pino macacas. if the pino macacas can measure the true extent to which you debazi want to avoid assrape by us, then these pino macacas can make the same assrape demand of you, and to the extent that you want to avoid the assrape by the chinese, you debazi would have to accept being assraped by pino macacas.
> 
> the killing of debazi at the hands of these macacas serves debazi EXACTLY right because killing debazi is EXACTLY what china is planning on.
> 
> the lesson is: if you are as weak as spineless as debazi, you get assraped either way



Spoken like a true idiot who doesn't know anything about the history of Taiwan.

As I've said before, I'm not Hokkien, Hakka, and don't have aboriginal blood. I am mainlander.

That said, your insults against the above mentioned peoples are really stupid and intolerable. 

The first Hokkien and Hakka settlers in Taiwan battled and fought against the European Dutch colonialist entity on Taiwan and expelled them in 1662 at Fort Zeelandia. They dealt one of the beginning blows of the resistance against western colonization.

The Spanish in the Philippines were so afraid of Zheng Chenggong's army on Taiwan after the Dutch were defeated, that they withdrew their soldiers who were fighting the Muslim Moros in the south.

As for the aboriginals, they attacked and slaughtered entire crews of Japanese and American sailors. The Japanese and Americans both launched military expeditions to fight the aboriginals after American and Japanese ships were ambushed and their crews were killed.

Look up the Rover Incident, Formosa Expedition of 1867, Mudan Incident of 1871, and Japanese invasion of Taiwan of 1874.

During the Sino French war, both Hakka, aboriginal and mainlanders fought against and humiliated the French army during the Keelung Campaign. The French were cornered at Keelung and failed to conquer Taiwan as they planned. They has to withdraw as part of the terms ending the war.

After the First Sino Japanese War, Taiwan refused to accede to the Japanese. The Taiwanese declared the Republic of Formosa to keep Taiwan out of Japanese hands and proclaimed that the Republic was loyal to the Qing dynasty. The Japanese had to launch another invasion in 1895 and fight against Hakka and Hokkien militia to take ov the island.

In the Tapani Incident in 1915, Hokkien, Hakka and Aboriginals rebelled against the Japanese and stormed Japanese police stations. Over 1,000 died in the revolt and 135 Taiwanese rebels were executed by the Japanese colonial government after the revolt was put down,

In the Wushe Incident of 1930, Taiwanese aboriginals of the Seediq tribe under Mona Rudao revolted against the Japanese colonizers. They only targeted Japanese people for killing and avoided killing Hokkien Han people. The revolt was brutally crushed by the Japanese.

All of your insults are dishonoring both the Han (hokkien and hakka) and Aboriginal Taiwanese who fought against the Dutch, Americans, Japanese, and French imperialists.

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## Wholegrain

The current royal family of Thailand, the Chakri dynasty has Chinese blood, the past few Prime Ministers of Thailand are of Chinese descent through their paternal line. Prime Ministers Shinawatra and Vejjajiva are both of Chinese descent. Prime Minister Plaek Phibunsongkhram and Luang Wichitwathakan were both of Chinese descent through their paternal line.

The Philipinne President Corazon Aquino was a mestizo of Chinese paternal descent through her father Jose Cojuangco and through her the current Philippine President Benguino Aquino has Chinese descent as well.

The leaders of Thailand and Philippines are both of Chinese descent.

The Philippines and Filipinos are named after a Spanish King, Philip II and it was Spain who shaped Filipino identity into one ethnic group. Spanish and Spanish mestizos were at the top of the hirearchy. China does not name itself after a foreign King and its identity was not created by foreigners.

The people who fought and rebelled against the Spanish the most were Chinese and Muslim Moros. 

The Spanish Governor of the Philippines Gómez Pérez Dasmariñas was assasinated by Chinese while in office. His son, another Governor of the Philippines, Luis Pérez Dasmariñas was killed and beheaded along with all his Spanish troops by Chinese rebels in 1603. The Chinese rebels defeated the first Spanish attack to round them up and hoisted the Spaniards heads over Manila after killing all of Dasmariñas's men, but they were outnumbered by another attack of Filipino and Japanese setllers who were serving the Spanish and who crushed the rebellion.

Chinese continued to supply the Moros who were fighting against the Spanish with arms. The Moros consistently defeated Spain's attenpts to conquer them until the 19th century, and even then they only had to sign a treaty granting a protectorate and weren't taken over.

Where was the Filipino resistance all those years? Only in 1896, which is over 300 years since the Spanish came to Manila in 1570, and Filipinos continue to use Spanish surnames, practice the religion introduced by Spain and their unified national identity and name are there because of Spain. Before the Spanish came, there was no such thing as a Filipino and the Philippines has dozens of ethnic groups.

A person of Chinese descent is the current head of state of the Philippines and Chinese were the ones who fought the colonizers and assasinated two Spanish governors.

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## Wholegrain

Wholegrain said:


> The current royal family of Thailand, the Chakri dynasty has Chinese blood, the past few Prime Ministers of Thailand are of Chinese descent through their paternal line. Prime Ministers Shinawatra and Vejjajiva are both of Chinese descent. Prime Minister Plaek Phibunsongkhram and Luang Wichitwathakan were both of Chinese descent through their paternal line.
> 
> The Philipinne President Corazon Aquino was a mestizo of Chinese paternal descent through her father Jose Cojuangco and through her the current Philippine President Benguino Aquino has Chinese descent as well.
> 
> The leaders of Thailand and Philippines are both of Chinese descent.
> 
> The Philippines and Filipinos are named after a Spanish King, Philip II and it was Spain who shaped Filipino identity into one ethnic group. Spanish and Spanish mestizos were at the top of the hirearchy. China does not name itself after a foreign King and its identity was not created by foreigners.
> 
> The people who fought and rebelled against the Spanish the most were Chinese and Muslim Moros.
> 
> The Spanish Governor of the Philippines Gómez Pérez Dasmariñas was assasinated by Chinese while in office. His son, another Governor of the Philippines, Luis Pérez Dasmariñas was killed and beheaded along with all his Spanish troops by Chinese rebels in 1603. The Chinese rebels defeated the first Spanish attack to round them up and hoisted the Spaniards heads over Manila after killing all of Dasmariñas's men, but they were outnumbered by another attack of Filipino and Japanese setllers who were serving the Spanish and who crushed the rebellion.
> 
> Chinese continued to supply the Moros who were fighting against the Spanish with arms. The Moros consistently defeated Spain's attenpts to conquer them until the 19th century, and even then they only had to sign a treaty granting a protectorate and weren't taken over.
> 
> Where was the Filipino resistance all those years? Only in 1896, which is over 300 years since the Spanish came to Manila in 1570, and Filipinos continue to use Spanish surnames, practice the religion introduced by Spain and their unified national identity and name are there because of Spain. Before the Spanish came, there was no such thing as a Filipino and the Philippines has dozens of ethnic groups.
> 
> A person of Chinese descent is the current head of state of the Philippines and Chinese were the ones who fought the colonizers and assasinated two Spanish governors.



My bad, I actually undervalued the Chinese role in the Philippines.

The major heroes who started and fought in the 1896 independence revolution in the Philippines against Spain were all Chinese mestizos. The Philipinne nationalist José Rizal was of Chinese descent through the patrilineal line, and Emilio Aguinaldo and Andrés Bonifacio were also both Chinese mestizos.

Not only were Chinese the ones who fought and assasinated Spanish governors, but people of Chinese descent led the Philippines nationalist revolution against Spain, and its current President Benguino Aquino III is of Chinese descent through his mother, former President Corazon Aquino who is patrilineally descended from Chinese.

If Filipinos hate Chinese people, then they will have to hate their own President and all their major national heroes.



The same goes for Thailand, they will have to hate their Royal family and Prime Ministers.

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## Bob Ong

There are countless Filipinos of Chinese descent who love the Philippines as any other true patriotic Filipino and I am one of them. It's true that many of our national heroes who died for the country had also Chinese blood in them. Filipinos in general are friendly and peace-loving people. Many Chinese have immigrated to the Philippines, were treated nicely, rich, influential and became powerful. In the school where I graduated, nearly half were also Chinese descent. 

Actually the problem we have at the moment is because China is grabbing our property. Please do not cow us with the strength of bigger numbers and better weapons because that will not work. We will defend our rights, with blood if necessary. We, Filipinos do not want war, because in war nobody wins, but if war comes because of greed, then we will be ready. 

We are now in the 21st century, living in a civilized world and governed by laws. China must honor the territorial rights of other countries. We are no longer living in the ancient times where there is no law exists and countries were not yet discovered. China is just afraid to settle the issue in the international court because they knew that they are going to lose the fight and get embarrass in the international community. I won't be surprised if one day China would experience the same fate of USSR decades ago. The clock is ticking fast!

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## Wholegrain

Bob Ong said:


> There are countless Filipinos of Chinese descent who love the Philippines as any other true patriotic Filipino and I am one of them. It's true that many of our national heroes who died for the country had also Chinese blood in them. Filipinos in general are friendly and peace-loving people. Many Chinese have immigrated to the Philippines, were treated nicely, rich, influential and became powerful. In the school where I graduated, nearly half were also Chinese descent.
> 
> Actually the problem we have at the moment is because China is grabbing our property. Please do not cow us with the strength of bigger numbers and better weapons because that will not work. We will defend our rights, with blood if necessary. We, Filipinos do not want war, because in war nobody wins, but if war comes because of greed, then we will be ready.
> 
> We are now in the 21st century, living in a civilized world and governed by laws. China must honor the territorial rights of other countries. We are no longer living in the ancient times where there is no law exists and countries were not yet discovered. China is just afraid to settle the issue in the international court because they knew that they are going to lose the fight and get embarrass in the international community. I won't be surprised if one day China would experience the same fate of USSR decades ago. The clock is ticking fast!



Actually the problem is the Philippines claims are illegitimate, and the issue of the Spratly islands is only between Taiwan and mainland China.

There were two parties claiming the Spratly islands in the 1930s and 1940s. One of them was the Republic of China, the other was France, the ruler of Indochina. 

The Philippines borders were determined by the Spanish and then the American colonial administration. America never, never claimed the spratly islands while France and the Republic of China already lodged their claims aainst each other in the 1930s. America may have used trickery through the Bates treaty to legally force the Moro Sultanates into the Philippines, but it never claimed the Spratlys.

Japan occupied the Spratlys during the war and surrendered them to the Republic of China when the war ended along with Taiwan. But the Republic of China abandoned its garrisons due to the civil war while it was evacuating to Taiwan.

After independence in 1945, the Philippines decided it wanted a share of the already claimed Spratly islands and suddenly these islands were "discovered" by a random dude named Tomas Cloma and allegedly found to be "terra nullis".

After hearing of this fantastic claim, Republic of China (Taiwan) quickly reoccupied Taiping island to forestall any attempts at the Philippines occupying the island.

Philippines also says since the islands are closer to Philippines it should go to the Philippines.

Wow. South Georgia island is closer to Argentina and its uninhabited, so why is Britain occupying it? Why doesn't it give it to Argentina? Why is Gibraltar part of Britain and not Spain? Why is Spain occupying cities on the Moroccan side of Africa?

Sources-

Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books

Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books

The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - Hmi-gwOn Pak - Google Books

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## Bob Ong

Wholegrain said:


> Actually the problem is the Philippines claims are illegitimate, and the issue of the Spratly islands is only between Taiwan and mainland China.
> 
> There were two parties claiming the Spratly islands in the 1930s and 1940s. One of them was the Republic of China, the other was France, the ruler of Indochina.
> 
> The Philippines borders were determined by the Spanish and then the American colonial administration. America never, never claimed the spratly islands while France and the Republic of China already lodged their claims aainst each other in the 1930s. America may have used trickery through the Bates treaty to legally force the Moro Sultanates into the Philippines, but it never claimed the Spratlys.
> 
> Japan occupied the Spratlys during the war and surrendered them to the Republic of China when the war ended along with Taiwan. But the Republic of China abandoned its garrisons due to the civil war while it was evacuating to Taiwan.
> 
> After independence in 1945, the Philippines decided it wanted a share of the already claimed Spratly islands and suddenly these islands were "discovered" by a random dude named Tomas Cloma and allegedly found to be "terra nullis".
> 
> After hearing of this fantastic claim, Republic of China (Taiwan) quickly reoccupied Taiping island to forestall any attempts at the Philippines occupying the island.
> 
> Philippines also says since the islands are closer to Philippines it should go to the Philippines.
> 
> Wow. South Georgia island is closer to Argentina and its uninhabited, so why is Britain occupying it? Why doesn't it give it to Argentina? Why is Gibraltar part of Britain and not Spain? Why is Spain occupying cities on the Moroccan side of Africa?
> 
> Sources-
> 
> Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
> 
> Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books
> 
> Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books
> 
> The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - Hmi-gwOn Pak - Google Books


Your telling of 'history' is bunk. If your case is sound solid then there's no reason for China to stay away from the arbitration. But then again, we all know China's arguments won&#8217;t stand in the proper forum, so we expect the usual hogwash about not going into a legal court room brawl with the Philippines.

China justified her exaggerated claim on the South China Sea by arguing that ancient Chinese texts mentioned certain islands in the South China Sea, proving that Chinese people were the first to navigate that sea and the first to discover the islands in the area, that China was the first country to exercise jurisdiction over the islands and that the South China Sea was China&#8217;s historic water. China further argued that in 1947, when China published a map of that sea with an eleven-dash line (predecessor of the nine-dash line), nobody protested, proving that the world had accepted China&#8217;s claim. However, close examination shows that China&#8217;s arguments are baseless. 

First, in 1947, the world did not react to the map of the South China Sea with the eleven-dash line because the world ignored that map. That map carried as much legal weight as the traditional Chinese political thought which said that the world (All-under-heaven) is under the authority of Chinese emperors. Can China argue that the world had accept China&#8217;s sovereignty over the world because nobody protested when the Chinese emperors declared that the world is under their authority? Second, countries that had historical border with the Arctic Ocean formed the Arctic Council to divide the Arctic natural resources according to the rules of UNCLOS. China never had any historical border with the Arctic Ocean, yet China asked to join the Arctic Council in order to have a share of Arctic natural rersources, arguing that the Arctic Ocean is a &#8220;common heritage for all of humankind&#8221;. If the Arctic Ocean is a &#8220;common heritage for all of humankind&#8221;, then the South China Sea is a common heritage for all the peoples who live on its shores, not only for China.

As for the Falklands, there are people living there who have almost unanimously chosen to remain British. It's a completely different situation, not that you can tell the difference, apparently. Britain and Argentina are both outside the 200 miles EEZ of Falkland Islands. So you can stop making excuses.

Just a question, does Taiwan wholeheartedly wants to be ruled by China right now? Tell me...In fact, name me a single country or island who loves to be ruled by the China? Got an idea? I'm not trying to be all high mighty 'coz what I'm saying are just truth and what's real. China is acting the way it is 'coz of the sole reason that it is so envious and jealous of the West, trying to copy something that is impossible to copy. But anyway, China is awesome in copying and counterfeiting anyway so maybe they can somehow, although, it would be low quality for sure.

I just hope that China will have the balls to face the complaint head on and not resort to their trademark strategy of blackmail and intimidation. The last two words summed up their policy in the dispute anyway.

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## soaringeagle

It is good to see some rational discussion again. The last few pages were all senseless bashing and racist fire exchange.

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## Wholegrain

Bob Ong said:


> Your telling of 'history' is bunk. If your case is sound solid then there's no reason for China to stay away from the arbitration. But then again, we all know China's arguments wont stand in the proper forum, so we expect the usual hogwash about not going into a legal court room brawl with the Philippines.
> 
> China justified her exaggerated claim on the South China Sea by arguing that ancient Chinese texts mentioned certain islands in the South China Sea, proving that Chinese people were the first to navigate that sea and the first to discover the islands in the area, that China was the first country to exercise jurisdiction over the islands and that the South China Sea was Chinas historic water. China further argued that in 1947, when China published a map of that sea with an eleven-dash line (predecessor of the nine-dash line), nobody protested, proving that the world had accepted Chinas claim. However, close examination shows that Chinas arguments are baseless.
> 
> First, in 1947, the world did not react to the map of the South China Sea with the eleven-dash line because the world ignored that map. That map carried as much legal weight as the traditional Chinese political thought which said that the world (All-under-heaven) is under the authority of Chinese emperors. Can China argue that the world had accept Chinas sovereignty over the world because nobody protested when the Chinese emperors declared that the world is under their authority? Second, countries that had historical border with the Arctic Ocean formed the Arctic Council to divide the Arctic natural resources according to the rules of UNCLOS. China never had any historical border with the Arctic Ocean, yet China asked to join the Arctic Council in order to have a share of Arctic natural rersources, arguing that the Arctic Ocean is a common heritage for all of humankind. If the Arctic Ocean is a common heritage for all of humankind, then the South China Sea is a common heritage for all the peoples who live on its shores, not only for China.
> 
> As for the Falklands, there are people living there who have almost unanimously chosen to remain British. It's a completely different situation, not that you can tell the difference, apparently. Britain and Argentina are both outside the 200 miles EEZ of Falkland Islands. So you can stop making excuses.
> 
> Just a question, does Taiwan wholeheartedly wants to be ruled by China right now? Tell me...In fact, name me a single country or island who loves to be ruled by the China? Got an idea? I'm not trying to be all high mighty 'coz what I'm saying are just truth and what's real. China is acting the way it is 'coz of the sole reason that it is so envious and jealous of the West, trying to copy something that is impossible to copy. But anyway, China is awesome in copying and counterfeiting anyway so maybe they can somehow, although, it would be low quality for sure.
> 
> I just hope that China will have the balls to face the complaint head on and not resort to their trademark strategy of blackmail and intimidation. The last two words summed up their policy in the dispute anyway.



The Republic of China both claimed and stationed garrisons in the Spratlys before the Philippines -FACT

The Republic of China and France both claimed the Spratly islands while the Americans administration in the Philippines did nothing - FACT

Japan invaded the Spratlys and took them from French forces, not American forces - FACT

The allies designated the Republic of China to receive the surrender of Japanese forces in the Spratly Islands - FACT

The Philippines then made up a claim based on proximity after both the Republic of China claimed and occupied the Spratly Islands - FACT.

The Republic of China and France claimed the Spratly and Paracel ISLANDS, not the south china sea itself, all it means is that whoever owns them would have a big EEZ. The middle of the arctic has no islands and is not under any particular nation's EEZ, only the areas around Canada and Russia are. The dotted line map shows the maritime boundary, not some magical boundary of sea claimed to be part of China.

And I love how you managed to mysteriously misread South Georgia Island into the Falkland islands. South Georgia is uninhabited, claimed by both Argentina and Britain, closer to Argentina yet it is controlled by Britain. Isn't that strange?

And since when did the uninhabited islands say they wanted to be ruled by the Philippines? I didn't know inanimate islands could voice their opinion?

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## faithfulguy

Wholegrain said:


> The Republic of China both claimed and stationed garrisons in the Spratlys before the Philippines -FACT
> 
> The Republic of China and France both claimed the Spratly islands while the Americans administration in the Philippines did nothing - FACT
> 
> Japan invaded the Spratlys and took them from French forces, not American forces - FACT
> 
> The allies designated the Republic of China to receive the surrender of Japanese forces in the Spratly Islands - FACT
> 
> The Philippines then made up a claim based on proximity after both the Republic of China claimed and occupied the Spratly Islands - FACT.
> 
> The Republic of China and France claimed the Spratly and Paracel ISLANDS, not the south china sea itself, all it means is that whoever owns them would have a big EEZ. The middle of the arctic has no islands and is not under any particular nation's EEZ, only the areas around Canada and Russia are. The dotted line map shows the maritime boundary, not some magical boundary of sea claimed to be part of China.
> 
> And I love how you managed to mysteriously misread South Georgia Island into the Falkland islands. South Georgia is uninhabited, claimed by both Argentina and Britain, closer to Argentina yet it is controlled by Britain. Isn't that strange?
> 
> And since when did the uninhabited islands say they wanted to be ruled by the Philippines? I didn't know inanimate islands could voice their opinion?



Taiwanese navy should go after the Filipino pirates that murdered Taiwanese fisherman. Arrest them and put them on trial. If Philippines would not surrender them, than Taiwan should do something such as blockade Luzon. If the Ma government would not do that, he should just resign and replace with someone that would protect its people.

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> Taiwanese navy should go after the Filipino pirates that murdered Taiwanese fisherman. Arrest them and put them on trial. If Philippines would not surrender them, than Taiwan should do something such as blockade Luzon. If the Ma government would not do that, he should just resign and replace with someone that would protect its people.



Wow so what happen to archipelago doctrine? again you people love to talk crap with no sense at all just all racist stereotyping with no end i just laugh at your post its so stupid.


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## Zero_wing

Wholegrain said:


> The Republic of China both claimed and stationed garrisons in the Spratlys before the Philippines -FACT
> 
> The Republic of China and France both claimed the Spratly islands while the Americans administration in the Philippines did nothing - FACT
> 
> Japan invaded the Spratlys and took them from French forces, not American forces - FACT
> 
> The allies designated the Republic of China to receive the surrender of Japanese forces in the Spratly Islands - FACT
> 
> The Philippines then made up a claim based on proximity after both the Republic of China claimed and occupied the Spratly Islands - FACT.
> 
> The Republic of China and France claimed the Spratly and Paracel ISLANDS, not the south china sea itself, all it means is that whoever owns them would have a big EEZ. The middle of the arctic has no islands and is not under any particular nation's EEZ, only the areas around Canada and Russia are. The dotted line map shows the maritime boundary, not some magical boundary of sea claimed to be part of China.
> 
> And I love how you managed to mysteriously misread South Georgia Island into the Falkland islands. South Georgia is uninhabited, claimed by both Argentina and Britain, closer to Argentina yet it is controlled by Britain. Isn't that strange?
> 
> And since when did the uninhabited islands say they wanted to be ruled by the Philippines? I didn't know inanimate islands could voice their opinion?



Man now i know all this lies made up by both the ROC and the PRC one it was the philippines who had control of the near islands to the Philippines because majority are islands with no people unlike most the claimants who claim all (china) even rock and shoals which you people still call islands see your wrong the first time and your still wrong in everything other fact is china namely the ROC and later on the PRC claim base on the Map of the ROC 1930s in any map of china you never find it any islands in the expect Taiwan which was stolen from the original inhabitants by the chinese (wow ever since then your pirate invaders so long for your no invading others nonsense) and under international law islands who have no occupants and near archipelago (a.k.a Nations like the Philippines) can claim those islands sine hence Archipelago unlike you Falklands (I mean if your going to side with the Argentine use the Argentinian name for the islands Islas Malvinas See when you use things use its full content) which is a whole different case all to together there is no comparison and besides the people voted to stay with UK so when people vote they get its well known fact that birts have that island since 1690 so please cry me the river among rivers you have no idea what is and what is not so please sell your trash propaganda some place else because people here are not stupid to believe that 100% b.s lies heck you can even face us in a peaceful way of solving matters like this and use military power heck am talking to guy who's own country or renegade province political status is in questions and now you did something wrong to your neighbor your just too damn proud to admit it and now your people are using force and hurt innocent workers because of their origins some first world country you people turn out to be! and yet tell us that their is difference between you and the imperials up north? Now this bull b.s b.s b.s to the core as we say here katarantadohan yan kagaguhan niya! Face it you evil people are the real evil here may araw rin kayo! remember that.


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## Wholegrain

Zero_wing said:


> Man now i know all this lies made up by both the ROC and the PRC one it was the philippines who had control of the near islands to the Philippines because majority are islands with no people unlike most the claimants who claim all (china) even rock and shoals which you people still call islands see your wrong the first time and your still wrong in everything other fact is china namely the ROC and later on the PRC claim base on the Map of the ROC 1930s in any map of china you never find it any islands in the expect Taiwan which was stolen from the original inhabitants by the chinese (wow ever since then your pirate invaders so long for your no invading others nonsense) and under international law islands who have no occupants and near archipelago (a.k.a Nations like the Philippines) can claim those islands sine hence Archipelago unlike you Falklands (I mean if your going to side with the Argentine use the Argentinian name for the islands Islas Malvinas See when you use things use its full content) which is a whole different case all to together there is no comparison and besides the people voted to stay with UK so when people vote they get its well known fact that birts have that island since 1690 so please cry me the river among rivers you have no idea what is and what is not so please sell your trash propaganda some place else because people here are not stupid to believe that 100% b.s lies heck you can even face us in a peaceful way of solving matters like this and use military power heck am talking to guy who's own country or renegade province political status is in questions and now you did something wrong to your neighbor your just too damn proud to admit it and now your people are using force and hurt innocent workers because of their origins some first world country you people turn out to be! and yet tell us that their is difference between you and the imperials up north? Now this bull b.s b.s b.s to the core as we say here katarantadohan yan kagaguhan niya! Face it you evil people are the real evil here may araw rin kayo! remember that.



This is so full of fail that I don't know where to start. Chinese came into Taiwan to liberated it from Dutch colonial control in 1662, like the Chinese who fought against the Spanish in the Philippines and Chinese mestizos who led the 1896 revolution against Spain.

And is there a mysterious glitch that turns SOUTH GEORGIA ISLANDS into the "Falkland Islands"? Or are you trying to hijack the topic?

France and the Republic of China specifically said they claimed the SPRATLY islands, including Taiping (itu aba). Japan conquered it from France and surrendered it to the Republic of China. The American administered Philippines never claimed it once or tried to occupy the islands.

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## sdjd2013

bleedingboi said:


> I was starting to like this forum, talked to a number of Indians, Filipinos, Thais, Viets, Pakistanis, and they're really good with discussions about military updates and war histories (this is the reason I joined this forum). Not until some bunch of Chinese PUNKS start swarming up on you like flies for one bad post.
> 
> I'm a middle-aged man who works with eBay.UK, MY family name is Sorensen, my father is half Norwegian in ancestry, my mother is an O'brien Scottish, living in Nottingham. It really won't bother me, if some Ch*nk calls me Thai, Indian, Filipino, Viet, Malaysian, etc... because of me using my Asian associate's email address and user ID instead of mine to register here. These minorities are well respected and admired in the west - COMPARED TO THE CHINESE. You can say anything, anytime you want, No big deal.
> (Two years ago, my PayPal account was hacked, since the email address linked to my PayPal is registered on some foreign forum used by hackers, - I WILL NEVER USE MY EMAIL AGAIN FOR FORUM REGISTRATIONS)
> 
> I don't even know why I'm responding to these comments, honestly, you Ch*nks don't deserve even one nick of my time.
> Of the three most hated races on Earth, (Blacks, Jews, Chinese), I don't agree with the first two, I appreciate Jews and Blacks, but looking at the behavior of some Chinese on this forum and how they discriminate other enthnicities and ballwash some comments, I see the reason why on the latter.
> 
> To the Pakistani admins, what's my take on this? Do I ignore these yellow-skinned, cat-eating punks? Or Humiliate them back?



The true color of a white man - racist . I havn't seen any racist comments in this thread except from you so far, you fish eating red neck, peckerwood, the source of homosexuality in the world. Go fu ck your assistant and Pinoy wife you are so fond of.

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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> If you really made those request just like when ma said he not against filipinos and taewanese made a little witch hunt for filipinos afterwards what bunch of hypocrites



This is what changed the tenor of this debate. I, too, was a rational debater from the beginning, until Zero Wing posted this thing, amongst other inflammatory, senseless, baseless, comments about Taiwan, and the Chinese, fueled by other comments by an American physician who is supposed to have compassion and morality. Then, I lost respect for this thread, and I don't give a fu ck about the debate, because there hasn't been one in this thread.

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## sdjd2013

Wholegrain said:


> This is so full of fail that I don't know where to start. Chinese came into Taiwan to liberated it from Dutch colonial control in 1662, like the Chinese who fought against the Spanish in the Philippines and Chinese mestizos who led the 1896 revolution against Spain.
> 
> And is there a mysterious glitch that turns SOUTH GEORGIA ISLANDS into the "Falkland Islands"? Or are you trying to hijack the topic?
> 
> France and the Republic of China specifically said they claimed the SPRATLY islands, including Taiping (itu aba). Japan conquered it from France and surrendered it to the Republic of China. The American administered Philippines never claimed it once or tried to occupy the islands.



You are one knowledgeable dude (or girl? no matter). I thought I was left to rancor with these aholes myself. I am proud to raise the same flags with you. word of advice, if you continue to argue with zero wing and bob ong, you will find yourself in a quandary b/c they will keep shifting on you in an attempt to make you miss the target. Their only strategy, and defense, is to mislead, with smoke and mirror, with faulty logic, distortion of truth, outright lies, spread rumors. I'd rather they refute their Chinese ancestry and call themselves Spaniards, cuz they are probably closer to the lazy life style of Spain then the diligence of the Chinese.

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## sdjd2013

Good point! you have spotted the white-man tactic. They like to play the two-face game, unwittingly offending everyone thinking they are smarter than everyone.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

Wholegrain said:


> *The Republic of China both claimed and stationed garrisons in the Spratlys before the Philippines -FACT*
> 
> The Republic of China and France both claimed the Spratly islands while the Americans administration in the Philippines did nothing - FACT
> 
> Japan invaded the Spratlys and took them from French forces, not American forces - FACT
> 
> The allies designated the Republic of China to receive the surrender of Japanese forces in the Spratly Islands - FACT
> 
> The Philippines then made up a claim based on proximity after both the Republic of China claimed and occupied the Spratly Islands - FACT.
> 
> The Republic of China and France claimed the Spratly and Paracel ISLANDS, not the south china sea itself, all it means is that whoever owns them would have a big EEZ. The middle of the arctic has no islands and is not under any particular nation's EEZ, only the areas around Canada and Russia are. The dotted line map shows the maritime boundary, not some magical boundary of sea claimed to be part of China.
> 
> And I love how you managed to mysteriously misread South Georgia Island into the Falkland islands. South Georgia is uninhabited, claimed by both Argentina and Britain, closer to Argentina yet it is controlled by Britain. Isn't that strange?
> 
> *And since when did the uninhabited islands say they wanted to be ruled by the Philippines? I didn't know inanimate islands could voice their opinion?*



Read this:

In 1952, a Philippine civilian began to mine sulfur from Taiping Island and that same year, a note attached to the Treaty of Taipei provided the Nationalist Chinese arguments for sovereignty over the island. The Nationalists established a permanent presence on the island in July 1956.[12]

Taiping Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Filipinos are the first one to occupy and claim Spratlys after Japan renounce her ownership to the islands. The Taiwanese used force to evict Filipinos which is against international law. 

There is no international agreement which gave those islands to China. FACT.

The Sulu Sultanate already owned those islands. Sabah, Palawan and the Spratlys Islands were given to the Sulu Sultanate by the Brunei Sultanate.

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## soaringeagle

My brothers from two shores and three regions, keep up the good work.
Also, please don't lose your cool and give those trollers satisfaction.


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## Wholegrain

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Read this:
> 
> In 1952, a Philippine civilian began to mine sulfur from Taiping Island and that same year, a note attached to the Treaty of Taipei provided the Nationalist Chinese arguments for sovereignty over the island. The Nationalists established a *permanent presence on the island in July 1956*.[12]
> 
> Taiping Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Filipinos are the first one to occupy and claim Spratlys after Japan renounce her ownership to the islands. The Taiwanese used force to evict Filipinos which is against international law.
> 
> There is no international agreement which gave those islands to China. FACT.
> 
> The Sulu Sultanate already owned those islands. Sabah, Palawan and the Spratlys Islands were given to the Sulu Sultanate by the Brunei Sultanate.



It said *PERMANENT* presence, because they occupied the island before and then withdrew because they were loosing the civil war in China and had to withdraw the government to Taiwan safely.

Read the sources again, the permanent base was a *return* because it wasn't the first time

Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books

Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books

The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - Hmi-gwOn Pak - Google Books


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## Enemy

self deleted


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## WuMaoCleverbot

Wholegrain said:


> It said *PERMANENT* presence, because they occupied the island before and then withdrew because they were loosing the civil war in China and had to withdraw the government to Taiwan safely.
> 
> Read the sources again, the permanent base was a *return* because it wasn't the first time
> 
> Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
> 
> Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books
> 
> Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books
> 
> The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - Hmi-gwOn Pak - Google Books



Our people were removed there forcefully. Even if you build a base there...it doesn't changed the fact that no international agreement gave those islands to China. Occupying territory thru force is against international law. Historically, Spratly Islands is owned by the Sulu Sultanate and now a part of the Philippines...so that made those islands part of the Philippines.

China's claim is based on bogus history.


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## sdjd2013

actually, I think he is the assistant, b/c the original writing does not sound like it was written by a Filipino.


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## sdjd2013

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Our people were removed there forcefully. Even if you build a base there...it doesn't changed the fact that no international agreement gave those islands to China. Occupying territory thru force is against international law. Historically, Spratly Islands is owned by the Sulu Sultanate and now a part of the Philippines...so that made those islands part of the Philippines.
> 
> China's claim is based on bogus history.



I know this is futile, but even granted that the islands have not been claimed by anyone under international law, what makes you think PH has a legitimate claim? because of proximity? that sounds so crass and can only come from a simpleton.

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## longyi

*NBI: Philippine coast guards liable*



The National Bureau of Investigation has recommended the filing of criminal charges against the Filipino coast guards involved in the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman in northern Philippine waters last month, the Inquirer learned on Tuesday.

A source, who has knowledge of the investigation of the incident but asked not to be identified because he has no authority to speak on the matter, declined to say whether murder or homicide charges had been recommended.

But the source said there was a debate on whether to bring murder charges against the coast guards, as superior strength was used against an unarmed civilian, or homicide, as the shooting death of fisherman Hung Shih-chen was not premeditated.

The source said the NBI report on the investigation of Hungs death had been submitted to Justice Secretary Leila de Lima.

It is a thin report, because the annexes have yet to be forwarded to [Secretary De Lima], the source said.

The report, according to the source, includes the identities of the coast guards who fired their rifles at Hungs fishing boat in waters off Balintang Island on May 9.

*Shooter identified*

t also contains the identity of the coast guard who fired the bullet that killed Hung, the source said.

The shooter was identified through a cross-match between the slug recovered from Hungs body during autopsy and the signature of the coast guards M14 rifle.

The shooting happened in Philippine waters, as the Philippine Coast Guard stated in its report on the incident submitted to the NBI, the source said.

The source said the incident took place within 79.2 kilometers of Philippine territory and 316.8 km from Taiwanese territory.

*No attempt to ram*

But the Coast Guards claim that the fishing boat Guan Ta Hsin 28 tried to ram the coastal patrol vessel MCS-3001 was disproved, the source said.

The Coast Guard claimed that the fishing boats hostile move was the reason for its officers firing at the vessel, aiming for the engine to make it stop.

But the NBI report says the results of the ballistic tests and trajectory examination on the fishing boat showed the shooters did not know where the engine was, the source said.

*Diplomatic row*

Hungs family has brought murder charges against the Philippine Coast Guard in Pingtung County District Attorneys Office in southern Taiwan and with the NBI team of investigators who traveled there last month for the Philippine probe of Hungs death.

The shooting death of the fisherman sparked a major diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines.

Taiwan demanded an official apology from the Philippine government, compensation for Hungs family and punishment for the shooters.

To pressure the Philippines into complying, Taiwan froze new jobs in Taiwan for Filipino migrant workers and suspended tourist travel to the Philippines and trade and cultural exchanges between the two countries.

President Aquino apologized for the shooting death of Hung, but Taiwan rejected his apology because of his description of the killing as unintended and an unfortunate loss of life.
*
Cooperate*

The two countries, however, agreed to cooperate in the investigation of Hungs death.
A team of Taiwanese investigators traveled to Manila to examine the coast guards weapons, interview them, and see their own video of the chase between their vessel and Hungs fishing boat.

An NBI team traveled to Taiwan, examined Hungs boat, interviewed its crew, and studied the Taiwanese coroners autopsy report.

The two teams agreed to release their findings separately.

NBI: Philippine coast guards liable » News » thePinoy

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## Bob Ong

Wholegrain said:


> The Republic of China both claimed and stationed garrisons in the Spratlys before the Philippines -FACT
> 
> The Republic of China and France both claimed the Spratly islands while the Americans administration in the Philippines did nothing - FACT
> 
> Japan invaded the Spratlys and took them from French forces, not American forces - FACT
> 
> The allies designated the Republic of China to receive the surrender of Japanese forces in the Spratly Islands - FACT
> 
> The Philippines then made up a claim based on proximity after both the Republic of China claimed and occupied the Spratly Islands - FACT.
> 
> The Republic of China and France claimed the Spratly and Paracel ISLANDS, not the south china sea itself, all it means is that whoever owns them would have a big EEZ. The middle of the arctic has no islands and is not under any particular nation's EEZ, only the areas around Canada and Russia are. The dotted line map shows the maritime boundary, not some magical boundary of sea claimed to be part of China.
> 
> And I love how you managed to mysteriously misread South Georgia Island into the Falkland islands. South Georgia is uninhabited, claimed by both Argentina and Britain, closer to Argentina yet it is controlled by Britain. Isn't that strange?
> 
> And since when did the uninhabited islands say they wanted to be ruled by the Philippines? I didn't know inanimate islands could voice their opinion?



FACT is CHINA&#8217;s claim is BASELESS from HISTORICAL and LEGAL perspectives.

To legally claim territory, one must define exactly its boundaries. Give me the geographic coordinates of that 9 dash line now (if you do not know what I mean by "geographic coordinates" ask a surveyor LOL)

China's claim of the 9 dash line is totally absurd. What if Italy will show an ancient map of the Roman Empire which extends all throughout Europe that was once a part of the Roman Empire. Or Mongolia will show an ancient map which includes China as part of its territory which was once conquered by the Mongolian Emperor Genghis Khan?

When China ratified the UNCLOS in 1996, she made a statement that it enjoys sovereign rights over its exclusive economic zone of 200 nm and the continental shelf. China also stated a law it passed in 1992 claiming islands in South China Sea including Taiwan and other disputed islands. Keep in mind that the UNCLOS was written in 1982. In both statements, China also stated that she will abide and respect the international law.

China climbed out of the toilet making, and now wants to take what belongs to the Philippines. They want to write their own laws allowing them to rape the natural resources of the Philippines, to the point of using their government ships to block the Philippines from imposing their laws on illegal Chinese fishing boats in Filipino waters. Yet they want to act as victims and threat of war. They are only disappointed that the Filipino people will not be pushed from what is the Philippines.

As for Falkland and South Georgia, there are British people living there. Again I repeat. Britain and Argentina are both outside the 200 miles EEZ of Falkland Islands. Try to look at the map of South Georgia Island it's even far than Falkland Islands.

As to geographical location, the Philippines appeared to have an edge in claiming the ownership of the Spratlys Islands as no other State can claim of being an "Archipelagic State." Under Article 46, Part IV of the United Nations Convention on the Laws of the Sea (UNCLOS), Archipelagic State is defined as: "A State constituted wholly by one or more archipelagos and may include other islands. Archipelago means a group of islands, including parts of islands, interconnecting waters, and other natural features..."The Philippine Island is an archipelago, consisting of so many islands, islets, and reefs and the Kalayaan Island or Spratlys are within its continental shelf and China is not an Archipelagic State.

Oh well what's new... For so many years, these Chinese leaders thought of themselves as superiors and their citizens inferior humans. This attitude has molded into a Nazi-like psyche. This time, they look outwards emboldened by their newly created national wealth. Glaringly, these politburos would speak about a PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC yet kills their own fellow Chinese people opposing against what these leaders want.



faithfulguy said:


> Taiwanese navy should go after the Filipino pirates that murdered Taiwanese fisherman. Arrest them and put them on trial. If Philippines would not surrender them, than Taiwan should do something such as blockade Luzon. If the Ma government would not do that, he should just resign and replace with someone that would protect its people.


Go ahead! Your garbage words must have the same elements in your brain. PCG is in pursuit of its duties to enforce Philippine and international law &#8211; they have the authority to board, inspect, apprehend any offending vessel conducting (or suspected to be conducting) unlawful activities within Philippine maritime boundaries. No more leeway to those wicked heartless Taiwanese.

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## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> You are one knowledgeable dude (or girl? no matter). I thought I was left to rancor with these aholes myself. I am proud to raise the same flags with you. word of advice, if you continue to argue with zero wing and bob ong, you will find yourself in a quandary b/c they will keep shifting on you in an attempt to make you miss the target. Their only strategy, and defense, is to mislead, with smoke and mirror, with faulty logic, distortion of truth, outright lies, spread rumors. I'd rather they refute their Chinese ancestry and call themselves Spaniards, cuz they are probably closer to the lazy life style of Spain then the diligence of the Chinese.


and your statement is the result of the long term effect of opium in Chinese bodies. Lay off the opium, man


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## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> FACT is CHINA&#8217;s claim is BASELESS from HISTORICAL and LEGAL perspectives.
> 
> To legally claim territory, one must define exactly its boundaries. Give me the geographic coordinates of that 9 dash line now (if you do not know what I mean by "geographic coordinates" ask a surveyor LOL)
> 
> China's claim of the 9 dash line is totally absurd. What if Italy will show an ancient map of the Roman Empire which extends all throughout Europe that was once a part of the Roman Empire. Or Mongolia will show an ancient map which includes China as part of its territory which was once conquered by the Mongolian Emperor Genghis Khan?
> 
> When China ratified the UNCLOS in 1996, she made a statement that it enjoys sovereign rights over its exclusive economic zone of 200 nm and the continental shelf. China also stated a law it passed in 1992 claiming islands in South China Sea including Taiwan and other disputed islands. Keep in mind that the UNCLOS was written in 1982. In both statements, China also stated that she will abide and respect the international law.
> 
> China climbed out of the toilet making, and now wants to take what belongs to the Philippines. They want to write their own laws allowing them to rape the natural resources of the Philippines, to the point of using their government ships to block the Philippines from imposing their laws on illegal Chinese fishing boats in Filipino waters. Yet they want to act as victims and threat of war. They are only disappointed that the Filipino people will not be pushed from what is the Philippines.
> 
> As for Falkland and South Georgia, there are British people living there. Again I repeat. Britain and Argentina are both outside the 200 miles EEZ of Falkland Islands. Try to look at the map of South Georgia Island it's even far than Falkland Islands.
> 
> As to geographical location, the Philippines appeared to have an edge in claiming the ownership of the Spratlys Islands as no other State can claim of being an "Archipelagic State." Under Article 46, Part IV of the United Nations Convention on the Laws of the Sea (UNCLOS), Archipelagic State is defined as: "A State constituted wholly by one or more archipelagos and may include other islands. Archipelago means a group of islands, including parts of islands, interconnecting waters, and other natural features..."The Philippine Island is an archipelago, consisting of so many islands, islets, and reefs and the Kalayaan Island or Spratlys are within its continental shelf and China is not an Archipelagic State.
> 
> Oh well what's new... For so many years, these Chinese leaders thought of themselves as superiors and their citizens inferior humans. This attitude has molded into a Nazi-like psyche. This time, they look outwards emboldened by their newly created national wealth. Glaringly, these politburos would speak about a PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC yet kills their own fellow Chinese people opposing against what these leaders want.
> 
> 
> Go ahead! Your garbage words must have the same elements in your brain. PCG is in pursuit of its duties to enforce Philippine and international law &#8211; they have the authority to board, inspect, apprehend any offending vessel conducting (or suspected to be conducting) unlawful activities within Philippine maritime boundaries. No more leeway to those wicked heartless Taiwanese.



OMG, for once you sound like a half-wit (as opposed to a full moron). You may sound logical about the ancient map, but as usual you intentionally avoided the KEY issue, which is who had POSSESSION just after WWII? why Possession? b/c in the absence of a rightful claim, finder's keeper -- isn't that the essence of ANGLO LAW? that you guys revere so much? I'm not saying Taiwan or China has a rightful claim, but certainly they have as much a claim as PH, so get off your high horse's A SS

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## sdjd2013

longyi said:


> *NBI: Philippine coast guards liable*
> 
> 
> 
> The National Bureau of Investigation has recommended the filing of criminal charges against the Filipino coast guards involved in the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman in northern Philippine waters last month, the Inquirer learned on Tuesday.
> 
> A source, who has knowledge of the investigation of the incident but asked not to be identified because he has no authority to speak on the matter, declined to say whether murder or homicide charges had been recommended.
> 
> But the source said there was a debate on whether to bring murder charges against the coast guards, as superior strength was used against an unarmed civilian, or homicide, as the shooting death of fisherman Hung Shih-chen was not premeditated.
> 
> The source said the NBI report on the investigation of Hungs death had been submitted to Justice Secretary Leila de Lima.
> 
> It is a thin report, because the annexes have yet to be forwarded to [Secretary De Lima], the source said.
> 
> The report, according to the source, includes the identities of the coast guards who fired their rifles at Hungs fishing boat in waters off Balintang Island on May 9.
> 
> *Shooter identified*
> 
> t also contains the identity of the coast guard who fired the bullet that killed Hung, the source said.
> 
> The shooter was identified through a cross-match between the slug recovered from Hungs body during autopsy and the signature of the coast guards M14 rifle.
> 
> The shooting happened in Philippine waters, as the Philippine Coast Guard stated in its report on the incident submitted to the NBI, the source said.
> 
> The source said the incident took place within 79.2 kilometers of Philippine territory and 316.8 km from Taiwanese territory.
> 
> *No attempt to ram*
> 
> But the Coast Guards claim that the fishing boat Guan Ta Hsin 28 tried to ram the coastal patrol vessel MCS-3001 was disproved, the source said.
> 
> The Coast Guard claimed that the fishing boats hostile move was the reason for its officers firing at the vessel, aiming for the engine to make it stop.
> 
> But the NBI report says the results of the ballistic tests and trajectory examination on the fishing boat showed the shooters did not know where the engine was, the source said.
> 
> *Diplomatic row*
> 
> Hungs family has brought murder charges against the Philippine Coast Guard in Pingtung County District Attorneys Office in southern Taiwan and with the NBI team of investigators who traveled there last month for the Philippine probe of Hungs death.
> 
> The shooting death of the fisherman sparked a major diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines.
> 
> Taiwan demanded an official apology from the Philippine government, compensation for Hungs family and punishment for the shooters.
> 
> To pressure the Philippines into complying, Taiwan froze new jobs in Taiwan for Filipino migrant workers and suspended tourist travel to the Philippines and trade and cultural exchanges between the two countries.
> 
> President Aquino apologized for the shooting death of Hung, but Taiwan rejected his apology because of his description of the killing as unintended and an unfortunate loss of life.
> *
> Cooperate*
> 
> The two countries, however, agreed to cooperate in the investigation of Hungs death.
> A team of Taiwanese investigators traveled to Manila to examine the coast guards weapons, interview them, and see their own video of the chase between their vessel and Hungs fishing boat.
> 
> An NBI team traveled to Taiwan, examined Hungs boat, interviewed its crew, and studied the Taiwanese coroners autopsy report.
> 
> The two teams agreed to release their findings separately.
> 
> NBI: Philippine coast guards liable » News » thePinoy



This may have eased the diplomatic tension, but damage to the goodwill between the two peoples have been done. I came in here with a clean slate, with good intention to debate about the issue. But, seeing all the absurd comments and responses posed by Pinoys, I gotta say, I am not sure if they are friends or enemies any more. I'm gonna watch my back for all the Pinoys from now. I believe there are good ones, but it appears majority are incapable of reason, and mostly disingenuous and have deep hatred for Chinese people. TSK, TSK. You guys are so confident about the U.S. forces, but remember, you are in the frontline, if a fight breaks out, you will feel the full brunt of it, not we.

and, they certainly should prosecute the Commander who ordered the shooting for murder.

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## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> OMG, for once you sound like a half-wit (as opposed to a full moron). You may sound logical about the ancient map, but as usual you intentionally avoided the KEY issue, which is who had POSSESSION just after WWII? why Possession? b/c in the absence of a rightful claim, finder's keeper -- isn't that the essence of ANGLO LAW? that you guys revere so much? I'm not saying Taiwan or China has a rightful claim, but certainly they have as much a claim as PH, so get off your high horse's A SS


Who's in the world can manage to accept the stupidity of China for their claim in their 9 dash line in SCS? UNCLOS gave all the country their 200nm for their right to exploit it and nothing more. Chinese expansionism is being experience from the end of world war two when their take Tibet as their land which even in history Tibet is not part of China. How they can say the whole sea is for them. Maybe need to change their attitude towards international community or the international community need to change their mind to boycott all Chinese product exported in the whole world and we can see what they are telling right when they back to the Mao's era 

Again China MAPPED the South China Sea. The 9 dash is fabricated by Chinese government and there's no historical and legal evidence on their claim.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> This is what changed the tenor of this debate. I, too, was a rational debater from the beginning, until Zero Wing posted this thing, amongst other inflammatory, senseless, baseless, comments about Taiwan, and the Chinese, fueled by other comments by an American physician who is supposed to have compassion and morality. Then, I lost respect for this thread, and I don't give a fu ck about the debate, because there hasn't been one in this thread.



Well sound like you and if you did why did you still reply happy Independence day for the Philippines mabuhay ng republika



Wholegrain said:


> This is so full of fail that I don't know where to start. Chinese came into Taiwan to liberated it from Dutch colonial control in 1662, like the Chinese who fought against the Spanish in the Philippines and Chinese mestizos who led the 1896 revolution against Spain.
> 
> And is there a mysterious glitch that turns SOUTH GEORGIA ISLANDS into the "Falkland Islands"? Or are you trying to hijack the topic?
> 
> France and the Republic of China specifically said they claimed the SPRATLY islands, including Taiping (itu aba). Japan conquered it from France and surrendered it to the Republic of China. The American administered Philippines never claimed it once or tried to occupy the islands.



Man i think your still living in your cave do your research first


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## Bob Ong

sdjd2013 said:


> This may have eased the diplomatic tension, but damage to the goodwill between the two peoples have been done. I came in here with a clean slate, with good intention to debate about the issue. But, seeing all the absurd comments and responses posed by Pinoys, I gotta say, I am not sure if they are friends or enemies any more. I'm gonna watch my back for all the Pinoys from now. I believe there are good ones, but it appears majority are incapable of reason, and mostly disingenuous and have deep hatred for Chinese people. TSK, TSK. You guys are so confident about the U.S. forces, but remember, you are in the frontline, if a fight breaks out, you will feel the full brunt of it, not we.
> 
> and, they certainly should prosecute the Commander who ordered the shooting for murder.


Blame your politicians! as long as these Taiwanese politicians need to boost their ratings, this issue will never end. They benefit more than we do with our trades and I hope they don't lift the sanctions, seriously. We're always known to survive whatever calamity comes our way. This is nothing compared to what we've been through. I seriously hope these sanctions don't get lifted. I'm even hoping they send all our workers back and let the Taiwanese blame their own politicians when their economy is affected. Just to remind you, the minute you cross the channel to attack/invade our country over something petty as this, you are activating the MDT and will lose your US protection order from China. So good luck

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## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> Who's in the world can manage to accept the stupidity of China for their claim in their 9 dash line in SCS? UNCLOS gave all the country their 200nm for their right to exploit it and nothing more. Chinese expansionism is being experience from the end of world war two when their take Tibet as their land which even in history Tibet is not part of China. How they can say the whole sea is for them. Maybe need to change their attitude towards international community or the international community need to change their mind to boycott all Chinese product exported in the whole world and we can see what they are telling right when they back to the Mao's era
> 
> Again China MAPPED the South China Sea. The 9 dash is fabricated by Chinese government and there's no historical and legal evidence on their claim.



Boo Hoo, now PH will conveniently disregard the one-China policy and deal with Taiwan, right? PH will have a better chance at it. FYI, the U.S. is kissing China's arse, as do all Europeans, getting on China's good side with their hands out. PH is the only one who is defying the world, like Japan, who has been scolded badly after being ignored on DaiyuDao (Senkaku).



Zero_wing said:


> Well sound like you and if you did why did you still reply happy Independence day for the Philippines mabuhay ng republika
> 
> 
> 
> Man i think your still living in your cave do your research first



You are so pathetic you are not worthy of a response from anyone. You probably live alone and work at some menial job judging from your intelligence. Good luck in your fantasy world.

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## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> Blame your politicians! as long as these Taiwanese politicians need to boost their ratings, this issue will never end. They benefit more than we do with our trades and I hope they don't lift the sanctions, seriously. We're always known to survive whatever calamity comes our way. This is nothing compared to what we've been through. I seriously hope these sanctions don't get lifted. I'm even hoping they send all our workers back and let the Taiwanese blame their own politicians when their economy is affected. Just to remind you, the minute you cross the channel to attack/invade our country over something petty as this, you are activating the MDT and will lose your US protection order from China. So good luck



PFFFFt, don't count on it. You think the US will sacrifice the world economy and its own that took 200 years to built? for little PH? The U.S. is broke after the bushes fought three wars. You guys had better wake up. The 7th fleet is far from home, and defenseless against missiles. Better PH stay quiet and grab ankles.

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## Wholegrain

Bob Ong said:


> Who's in the world can manage to accept the stupidity of China for their claim in their 9 dash line in SCS? UNCLOS gave all the country their 200nm for their right to exploit it and nothing more. Chinese expansionism is being experience from the end of world war two when their take Tibet as their land which even in history Tibet is not part of China. How they can say the whole sea is for them. Maybe need to change their attitude towards international community or the international community need to change their mind to boycott all Chinese product exported in the whole world and we can see what they are telling right when they back to the Mao's era
> 
> Again China MAPPED the South China Sea. The 9 dash is fabricated by Chinese government and there's no historical and legal evidence on their claim.



Triple fail.

Tibet was recognized as part of the Republic of China by America and the rest of the world, and even Britain recognized Tibet as under China's suzereinty at the 1914 Simla Accord. No country recognized Tibet' delaration of independence.

There is a reason there was never a Tibetan embassy in America. America also did not recognized Mongolia while it recognized ROC, because the ROC considers Mongolia a province.

There is a reason why the Dalai Lama could not even file a complaint at the United Nations in 1950 - no member state recognized his "country".

We should talk about Filipino expansionism, like its behavior in Mindanao which it owns solely due to the United States' brutal imperialist rampage against the Moros. Not even Spain could directly annex the sultanates. 

No country has recognized the Philippines claims either, except for the Philippines. 

Japan surrendered the Spratly Islands to the Republic of China, decades before UNCLOS existed.

The Philippines claims are so full of fail I cannot begin to describe it. If the islands are in the Philippinrs EEZ according to the Philippines, then those are NOT the territorial waters of the Philippines. EEZs are BEYOND territorial waters. And since EEZs are made out of water, they do NOT cover islands. If an island is in the middle of your EEZ but not your territorial waters, then you aren't claiming it.

The Miangas island is well in the Philippines EEZ and continental shelf and closer to the Philippines than Indnesia, yet it was awarded to the Dutch colonial government of Indonesia by the Permanent Court of Arbitration.

Your constant nagging about the map is a straw man because before the map was even drawn, both French indo china, the Republic of China, and then Japan during world war 2 claimed the spratly islands. The American ruled Philippines did NOT claim the islands, only after independence and Clomas's "discovery" did it contest the already existing claims of the Republic of China and France. Japan surrendered the spratly islands to the Republic of China and not America.

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## Krueger




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## sdjd2013

touché! Wholegrain!


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## sdjd2013

Bob Ong said:


> Blame your politicians! as long as these Taiwanese politicians need to boost their ratings, this issue will never end. They benefit more than we do with our trades and I hope they don't lift the sanctions, seriously. We're always known to survive whatever calamity comes our way. This is nothing compared to what we've been through. I seriously hope these sanctions don't get lifted. I'm even hoping they send all our workers back and let the Taiwanese blame their own politicians when their economy is affected. Just to remind you, the minute you cross the channel to attack/invade our country over something petty as this, you are activating the MDT and will lose your US protection order from China. So good luck



When Japan compensated and apologized for the ramming of the Taiwanese boat at Ma's demand, he didn't care about his ratings. He did it because it was the right thing to do, and his ratings did not improve b/c of it. I can't speak for every Taiwanese, and I admit there are many warmongers in the DDP who doesn't care for the common good, but don't blame Ma for the rage of the people. Can Ma get votes from 14 Congressmen who condemned the shooting? can he get votes from the Chinese people at large who are outraged by the disdain with which PH has treated Chinese lives? for all those who says so what one fisherman died, i'd say you guys are the true evil elements of the world, not China or Taiwan, or anyone who understands morality.

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## sdjd2013

p.s., Taiwan is truly a model of peace, and its fishermen bothers no one but the fish. they are trying to make a living. They don't hunt endangered species, that is the job for Japan (whales) and China (sharks). They follow tunas, and if, for some mishap, they end up in disputed areas, they get shot or arrested for ransom. so WTF are you guys talking about they invaded waters? so FU CKING WHAT? DO YOU SHOOT EVERHONE WHO IS UNARMED THAT TRESPASS INTO YOUR BACKYARD?

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## faithfulguy

Bob Ong said:


> Go ahead! Your garbage words must have the same elements in your brain. PCG is in pursuit of its duties to enforce Philippine and international law  they have the authority to board, inspect, apprehend any offending vessel conducting (or suspected to be conducting) unlawful activities within Philippine maritime boundaries. No more leeway to those wicked heartless Taiwanese.



Do the Filipino pirates have any right to murder anyone with cold blood. That is what happened. Its not the matter of boarding vessels or search and apprehend. Its a murder issue and its time that your Filipino gov look at it that way.

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## sdjd2013

longyi said:


> *NBI: Philippine coast guards liable*
> 
> 
> 
> The National Bureau of Investigation has recommended the filing of criminal charges against the Filipino coast guards involved in the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman in northern Philippine waters last month, the Inquirer learned on Tuesday.
> 
> A source, who has knowledge of the investigation of the incident but asked not to be identified because he has no authority to speak on the matter, declined to say whether murder or homicide charges had been recommended.
> 
> But the source said there was a debate on whether to bring murder charges against the coast guards, as &#8220;superior strength&#8221; was used &#8220;against an unarmed civilian,&#8221; or homicide, as the shooting death of fisherman Hung Shih-chen was &#8220;not premeditated.&#8221;
> 
> The source said the NBI report on the investigation of Hung&#8217;s death had been submitted to Justice Secretary Leila de Lima.
> 
> &#8220;It is a thin report, because the annexes have yet to be forwarded to [Secretary De Lima],&#8221; the source said.
> 
> The report, according to the source, includes the identities of the coast guards who fired their rifles at Hung&#8217;s fishing boat in waters off Balintang Island on May 9.
> 
> *Shooter identified*
> 
> t also contains the identity of the coast guard who fired the bullet that killed Hung, the source said.
> 
> The shooter was identified through a cross-match between the slug recovered from Hung&#8217;s body during autopsy and the signature of the coast guard&#8217;s M14 rifle.
> 
> The shooting happened in Philippine waters, as the Philippine Coast Guard stated in its report on the incident submitted to the NBI, the source said.
> 
> The source said the incident took place within 79.2 kilometers of Philippine territory and 316.8 km from Taiwanese territory.
> 
> *No attempt to ram*
> 
> But the Coast Guard&#8217;s claim that the fishing boat Guan Ta Hsin 28 tried to ram the coastal patrol vessel MCS-3001 was disproved, the source said.
> 
> The Coast Guard claimed that the fishing boat&#8217;s hostile move was the reason for its officers&#8217; firing at the vessel, aiming for the engine to make it stop.
> 
> But the NBI report says the results of the ballistic tests and trajectory examination on the fishing boat showed the shooters did not know where the engine was, the source said.
> 
> *Diplomatic row*
> 
> Hung&#8217;s family has brought murder charges against the Philippine Coast Guard in Pingtung County District Attorney&#8217;s Office in southern Taiwan and with the NBI team of investigators who traveled there last month for the Philippine probe of Hung&#8217;s death.
> 
> The shooting death of the fisherman sparked a major diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines.
> 
> Taiwan demanded an official apology from the Philippine government, compensation for Hung&#8217;s family and punishment for the shooters.
> 
> To pressure the Philippines into complying, Taiwan froze new jobs in Taiwan for Filipino migrant workers and suspended tourist travel to the Philippines and trade and cultural exchanges between the two countries.
> 
> President Aquino apologized for the shooting death of Hung, but Taiwan rejected his apology because of his description of the killing as &#8220;unintended&#8221; and an &#8220;unfortunate loss of life.&#8221;
> *
> Cooperate*
> 
> The two countries, however, agreed to cooperate in the investigation of Hung&#8217;s death.
> A team of Taiwanese investigators traveled to Manila to examine the coast guards&#8217; weapons, interview them, and see their own video of the chase between their vessel and Hung&#8217;s fishing boat.
> 
> An NBI team traveled to Taiwan, examined Hung&#8217;s boat, interviewed its crew, and studied the Taiwanese coroner&#8217;s autopsy report.
> 
> The two teams agreed to release their findings separately.
> 
> NBI: Philippine coast guards liable » News » thePinoy



it's amazing why some Filipinos defy the findings of their own NBI. PCG had no right to shoot! That's the END! what more do you guys want? Your own investigators said that PCG was WRONG! all that diplomatic jousting was just delaying the inevitable, and what everyone knew (including the 14 U.S. Congressmen who condemned the shooting). Let it be a forgone conclusion that it was a wrongful act to shoot a fisherman, trespassing or not. now the question is whether it was intentional -- another forgone conclusion by any means.

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## yowhenyo

The PCG personnel may be wrong for shooting an unarmed fishing vessel, but then again it is also WRONG to fish at someone else's sea. Don't bring up again the topic that it is in the "Disputed" EEZ since the location (confirmed by both Gov't) of where the incident happened is below PH's island Basco, Batanes. What the heck happened to people's logic and common sense..


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## Zero_wing

You are so pathetic you are not worthy of a response from anyone. You probably live alone and work at some menial job judging from your intelligence. Good luck in your fantasy world.[/QUOTE]

I think i am in the position to tell you that


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## bleedingboi

karim3343 said:


> BleedingBOI AKA JOHN LOW AKA FILIPINO MONKEY! LOL
> 
> 
> *Living in Cebu City*
> 
> HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE A WHITE MAN? LOOOOOL
> 
> Here is Bleeding Boi Youtube comment page. He is obsessed with Chinese ******. (He is also obsessed with pretending he is a patriotic American and/or White person).
> 
> It is quit clear bleeding Filiturd has a *huge* inferiority complex and lacks the self-confidence needed to call himself a Filipino!





karim3343 said:


> Filipinos have an obscene obsession with wanting to be White. I think this guy actually convinced himself he is White. He was caught earlier but was trying to pass off the baboon in his pic as his "assistant".
> 
> Isn't it interesting that his "assistant" has a YouTube comment page focusing solely on anti-China and pro-Filipino comments and videos? LOL!
> 
> Isn't it interesting that this Fili-maid has a profile on a Fili site, and that he uses his dirty Fili language to comment on it?
> 
> 
> So mister Fili wanna-be White man, where to next?
> - Details for User bleedingboi[/url]



Re-iterating from my previous post, I really don't care on how you guys bash me or my assistant out for using this user ID and email address to start this forum account. And if it's really gut-wrenching looking at false flaggers, people assuming identities , then I will not use this account anymore. No big thingy. I can create my own. 

Although I don't owe you guys any explanation about everything. John Bradley Lowe is a good friend of mine, and yes he's Filipino. I do admit he has hate issues, but it's not him posting all these comments here, it's me. So you can hit the bloody bat on me, I'll bite the bullet. You can stop dragging him to this thread. 

But I do owe everyone an apology if I have used the "C" word against the Chinese. Any racial slurs, discrimination, and bashing comments, it won't happen again. I'm sorry. If you all look at my previous posts on different threads, it's not really about "China-Hating". I hate the regime but I don't hate the people. 

The reason I joined this site is that, I'm a fan of the newer Pakistani Al-Khalid Battle Tanks. That's all. 




Wholegrain said:


> Asian women in general, but Southeast asian women in particular and especially are viewed as cheap sex objects by western men. Thats why southeasti asia has a reputation for western sexual tourism. In reality, this is unfair to the majority of Thai women who are very conservative and don't sleep with perverted, middle aged overweight men from the west who can't get women back home. (This is not a personal insult to you, but to sexual tourists)



Prostitution is illegal on most ASEAN countries. Governments have a stiff rule against human trafficking and public indecency, but I can't describe the same to the Thai government, they're being too laxed. Here's why:

1. During the Vietnam War, Western soldiers and other personnel would take R&R in Thailand - this, obviously, increased demand for prostitutes in Thailand.

2. In an effort to industrialise (and at the recommendation of the World Bank & IMF), the Thai government started to push Thailand as an exotic destination for Western tourism. However, little/nothing was done to change the image Thailand inherited from the Vietnam war as being an anything-goes sex and drugs haven .

3. Thailand is surrounded by poorer neighbours - Burmese, Lao, Cambodian and Yunnan Chinese women may all come to Thailand seeking greater opportunity.

4. Prosecuting those who buy and sell sex would significantly impact on the Thai economy. Therefore, the Thai government chooses to turn a blind eye, making sex-tourism relatively risk-free for Westerners in terms of potential legal repercussions.

5. Thailand has long been a hub for drugs- and arms-trafficking - these two industries are closely correlated to human (sex) trafficking .



sdjd2013 said:


> it's amazing why some Filipinos defy the findings of their own NBI. PCG had no right to shoot! That's the END! what more do you guys want? Your own investigators said that PCG was WRONG! all that diplomatic jousting was just delaying the inevitable, and what everyone knew (including the 14 U.S. Congressmen who condemned the shooting). Let it be a forgone conclusion that it was a wrongful act to shoot a fisherman, trespassing or not. now the question is whether it was intentional -- another forgone conclusion by any means.



If the NBI came with evidence where the PCG personnel lacked restraint on these shooting and needs to be brought to curt, then it must be the rule.


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## East Asia United

bleedingboi said:


> Re-iterating from my previous post, I really don't care on how you guys bash me or my assistant out for using this user ID and email address to start this forum account. And if it's really gut-wrenching looking at false flaggers, people assuming identities , then I will not use this account anymore. No big thingy. I can create my own.
> 
> Although I don't owe you guys any explanation about everything. John Bradley Lowe is a good friend of mine, and yes he's Filipino. I do admit he has hate issues, but it's not him posting all these comments here, it's me. So you can hit the bloody bat on me, I'll bite the bullet. You can stop dragging him to this thread.
> 
> But I do owe everyone an apology if I have used the "C" word against the Chinese. Any racial slurs, discrimination, and bashing comments, it won't happen again. I'm sorry. If you all look at my previous posts on different threads, it's not really about "China-Hating". I hate the regime but I don't hate the people.
> 
> The reason I joined this site is that, I'm a fan of the newer Pakistani Al-Khalid Battle Tanks. That's all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prostitution is illegal on most ASEAN countries. Governments have a stiff rule against human trafficking and public indecency, but I can't describe the same to the Thai government, they're being too laxed. Here's why:
> 
> 1. During the Vietnam War, Western soldiers and other personnel would take R&R in Thailand - this, obviously, increased demand for prostitutes in Thailand.
> 
> 2. In an effort to industrialise (and at the recommendation of the World Bank & IMF), the Thai government started to push Thailand as an exotic destination for Western tourism. However, little/nothing was done to change the image Thailand inherited from the Vietnam war as being an anything-goes sex and drugs haven .
> 
> 3. Thailand is surrounded by poorer neighbours - Burmese, Lao, Cambodian and Yunnan Chinese women may all come to Thailand seeking greater opportunity.
> 
> 4. Prosecuting those who buy and sell sex would significantly impact on the Thai economy. Therefore, the Thai government chooses to turn a blind eye, making sex-tourism relatively risk-free for Westerners in terms of potential legal repercussions.
> 
> 5. Thailand has long been a hub for drugs- and arms-trafficking - these two industries are closely correlated to human (sex) trafficking .
> 
> 
> 
> If the NBI came with evidence where the PCG personnel lacked restraint on these shooting and needs to be brought to curt, then it must be the rule.



Hey retard, how stupid do you think we are?

Here is what YOU wrote on these forums in your introduction:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-introduction/257253-hi-bradley-lowe.html

*Hi. This is Bradley Lowe*

So, what are the chances that you and your Filipino "assistant" have the same last name?

What are the chances that you and your Filipino "assistant" *BOTH* use the same account usernames for all of your profiles on the internet?

What are the chances that you and your non-existant "assistant" both rag on China on all of your profiles?


Conclusion: *YOU ARE YOUR ASSISTANT*

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## Wholegrain

bleedingboi said:


> Prostitution is illegal on most ASEAN countries. Governments have a stiff rule against human trafficking and public indecency, but I can't describe the same to the Thai government, they're being too laxed. Here's why:
> 
> 1. During the Vietnam War, Western soldiers and other personnel would take R&R in Thailand - this, obviously, increased demand for prostitutes in Thailand.
> 
> 2. In an effort to industrialise (and at the recommendation of the World Bank & IMF), the Thai government started to push Thailand as an exotic destination for Western tourism. However, little/nothing was done to change the image Thailand inherited from the Vietnam war as being an anything-goes sex and drugs haven .
> 
> 3. Thailand is surrounded by poorer neighbours - Burmese, Lao, Cambodian and *Yunnan Chinese women* may all come to Thailand seeking greater opportunity.
> 
> 4. Prosecuting those who buy and sell sex would significantly impact on the Thai economy. Therefore, the Thai government chooses to turn a blind eye, making sex-tourism relatively risk-free for Westerners in terms of potential legal repercussions.
> 
> 5. Thailand has long been a hub for drugs- and arms-trafficking - these two industries are closely correlated to human (sex) trafficking .
> 
> 
> 
> If the NBI came with evidence where the PCG personnel lacked restraint on these shooting and needs to be brought to curt, then it must be the rule.



FAIL attempt at insulting Chinese people.

The women from Yunnan who work as prostitutes in Thailand are ethnic MINORITIES.

Article: Poverty drives minority women from China&#39;s Yunnan to Thai sex industry. | AccessMyLibrary - Promoting library advocacy

Yunnan women flock to Thai sex industry | South China Morning Post



> Poverty drives *minority women* from China's Yunnan to Thai sex industry.
> 
> Asia Africa Intelligence Wire | August 11, 2004 | Copyright
> 
> (From BBC Monitoring International Reports)
> South China Morning Post web site on 9 August
> 
> Women from at least half the households in some Yunnan counties have worked in the sex industry in Thailand, according to a United Nations report.
> 
> Liu Meng, from the Chinese Women's University in Beijing, is a UN Inter-Agency Project consultant and a contributor to the report. Along with three other mainland researchers, she interviewed 440 residents in Yunnan's Lancang County.
> 
> The isolated county is on the west side of the Mekong River and home to more than *a dozen different ethnic communities.* It has an annual per-capita income of 580 yuan, half the

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## bleedingboi

karim3343 said:


> Hey retard, how stupid do you think we are?
> 
> Here is what YOU wrote on these forums in your introduction:
> 
> *Hi. This is Bradley Lowe*
> 
> So, what are the chances that you and your Filipino "assistant" have the same last name?
> 
> What are the chances that you and your Filipino "assistant" *BOTH* use the same account usernames for all of your profiles on the internet?
> 
> What are the chances that you and your non-existant "assistant" both rag on China on all of your profiles?
> 
> 
> Conclusion: *YOU ARE YOUR ASSISTANT*



You guess it. The same reason why I don't put my personal info, my email addresses, credit cards on unverified sites. 
I would never put my own fullname. I hope that's clear enough.

Anyroad, I'm done arguing on this matter. Too many bladdered responses. 



Wholegrain said:


> FAIL attempt at insulting Chinese people.
> 
> The women from Yunnan who work as prostitutes in Thailand are ethnic MINORITIES.
> [/url]



You've said it mate. If I wanted to inflict insult on all Chinese, then I could've just jotted down --> "Chinese Women" instead of "Yunnan Chinese".


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## p3avi8tor69

So it was murder after all. Pinoy coasties are unprofessional, trigger happy and plain dumb. Zero_wing and his cohorts are probably crapping in their pants right now. So much for "defending" our territory blah blah blah

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## longyi

*Manila report suggests charges: newspaper*



TAIPEI, Taiwan -- *Criminal charges should be filed against Philippine coastguardsmen involved in the controversial shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman in May, according to a suggestion allegedly mentioned in the Manila investigation report and relayed by the Inquirer News yesterday*.

*The Inquirer article titled NBI: Philippine coast guards liable, noted that an anonymous source*, who wished to remain secret due to lack of authority, revealed that the Philippine's National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) *recommended the filing of criminal charges against the Filipino coast guards involved.*

Twin probes of the shooting of the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28 (&#24291;&#22823;&#33288;28&#34399 that occurred in overlapping waters began on May 27 for both Taiwan and the Philippines.

A group of eight Philippine NBI officials led by Foreign Liaison Office head Daniel Deganzo launched a five-day probe into the shooting, the procedure of which included meetings with local forensic experts who conducted an autopsy on the fisherman's body, the viewing of a video recording of the autopsy and discussions with the Taiwanese coroners responsible.

The nature of the recommended charges was unclear as the source had allegedly denied elaboration on whether murder homicide charges had been suggested, the source said. 

The Inquirer quoted the source as saying that the investigation had included a debate as to whether to bring murder charges against the coastguardsmen, as superior strength was used against an unarmed civilian, or homicide, as the shooting death of fisherman Hung Shih-chen was not premeditated.

*Shooters Identified in Report*

The report allegedly contains the identities of the coast guard personnel aboard the shooting vessel and the guard who fired the fatal shot, said the source, who added that the NBI had confirmed the responsible shooter's identity after noting that the bullet in Hung's body, recovered during the autopsy in Taiwan, matched a certain coastguardsman's M14 rifle.
*
Ramming Accusation Rebuffed*

The crew of the Philippine Coast Guard vessel engaged in the dispute had previously claimed they had been egged into shooting because the Taiwanese fishing boat had attempted to ram into them, an accusation found hollow after the video recording of the incident had been shown to Taiwanese investigators.

*The source revealed the Manila investigation report also contradicted the coastguardsmen's claims.*

In a conclusive meeting held in Manila between the investigators from both nations, the two teams had reportedly reached a consensus on the actual geographical coordinates where the shooting happened, but were still at odds about the ownership of the waters.

The Philippine's report was sent to the nation's Justice Secretary Leila de Lima on Tuesday, but the date of the document's publication is unclear.

Manila report suggests charges: newspaper - The China Post

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## sdjd2013

bleedingboi said:


> You guess it. The same reason why I don't put my personal info, my email addresses, credit cards on unverified sites.
> I would never put my own fullname. I hope that's clear enough.
> 
> Anyroad, I'm done arguing on this matter. Too many bladdered responses.
> 
> 
> 
> You've said it mate. If I wanted to inflict insult on all Chinese, then I could've just jotted down --> "Chinese Women" instead of "Yunnan Chinese".



the more you talk, the more you give yourself away...


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## shuttler

What looks like a massive cover-up by the Pinoy government and the PCGs with attempts to obstruct the course of justice.

Persecution is only one part of proper procedures. Let see what will the verdicts be.
Then the next to follow are:
1. formal apology from aquino
2. adequate compensation
3. guranantee the same wont happen again in the same area by the pinoy government

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## sdjd2013

shuttler said:


> What looks like a massive cover-up by the Pinoy government and the PCGs with attempts to obstruct the course of justice.
> 
> Persecution is only one part of proper procedures. Let see what will the verdicts be.
> Then the next to follow are:
> 1. formal apology from aquino
> 2. adequate compensation
> 3. guranantee the same wont happen again in the same area by the pinoy government



Absolutely, except some Pinoy law professor name Roque opposes to a fisheries agreement, b/c he says there is no legal basis for it, since there is only one china. He completely misses the point that a fishery agreement does not = border dispute agreement. The fishery agreement between Taiwan and Japan sets a good example of putting aside the border dispute to protect the livelihood (and lives) of the fishermen on both sides. Short of that, I don't see how this conflict can end, with both navies bent on arresting so called "trespassers" and at the same time protect fishermen of their own.


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## Zero_wing

As if you people stole from us


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## Bienvenido

DOJ prepared an honest to goodness report while Taipei prepared with supporting evidences all questionable since Taiwan is infamous for counterfeiting.


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## Fsjal

Bienvenido said:


> DOJ prepared an honest to goodness report while Taipei prepared with supporting evidences all questionable since Taiwan is infamous for counterfeiting.



The DOJ is lying. They are covering up the lies they have made for causing this incident.


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## Bienvenido

Fsjal said:


> The DOJ is lying. They are covering up the lies they have made for causing this incident.


The real question is: what were the Taiwanese doing in Philippine waters? Is that not relevant at all? The incident could have been avoided had they fished on their own waters.

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## Fsjal

Bienvenido said:


> The real question is: what were the Taiwanese doing in Philippine waters? Is that not relevant at all? The incident could have been avoided had they fished on their own waters.



Well, if you think for a while, the fishermen had no navigation maybe. Anyway, why did the coast guards fire at them?


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## Bienvenido

Fsjal said:


> Well, if you think for a while, the fishermen had no navigation maybe. Anyway, why did the coast guards fire at them?


With their GPS, the Taiwanese knew that they strayed into Philippine waters. Perhaps they were thinking "nah, these Filipinos won't do anything if we fish in their waters, we've been doing it a long time." There are risks when one travels to a foreign country.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

*The Perils of Dealing With Taiwan*
June12, 2013 Chito Sta. Romana

The tragic death of a Taiwanese fisherman from shots fired by Filipino Coast Guard personnel on an anti-poaching patrol last May 9 quickly triggered a crisis that threatened the relations between the Philippines and Taiwan.
The ensuing Philippine-Taiwan row showed clearly how a single untoward incident could easily escalate into a situation that could spiral out of control.

It also highlighted the diplomatic triangle that encompasses the Philippines, Taiwan and China within the context of the Philippines One China policy. The policy binds the three in an intricate triangular relationship that seems like a touchy ménage a trois in the realm of diplomacy.

When the Philippines and China established diplomatic ties in 1975, Manila agreed to the One China policy that recognized Beijing as Chinas sole legal government, with Taiwan viewed as a part of China. 

As a consequence, Manila broke its formal ties with Taipei but maintained economic, trade and cultural ties on an unofficial basis through a non-governmental body known as the Manila Economic and Cultural Office.

WORKABLE SET-UP

This set-up worked fairly well for more than three decades as trade and economic ties flourished, with trade volume reaching $10.9 billion in 2012, and Taiwan enjoying a surplus of $9 billion. Taiwanese companies have also invested more than $2 billion in the Philippines. 

Moreover, about 87,000 Filipinos are employed in Taiwan, mostly as workers in factories exporting electronic components and products, and they remit $600 million annually to their families. 

Taiwans GDP of $474 billion, though dwarfed by Chinas, is almost double the size of the Philippine economy: in terms of living standards, as measured by its per capita GDP of $20,328, Taiwans is much higher than Chinas or the Philippines.
Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeous demand for a formal apology from the Philippines for what he described as the cold-blooded murder of the Taiwanese fisherman smacked of a diplomatic trap.

DIPLOMATIC MINEFIELD

But this set-up eventually turned into a diplomatic minefield as an economically prosperous and confident Taiwan sought a wider international space in pursuit of an improved international status. It wanted to break out of its international isolation and escape from the constraints of the One China policy.

In this context, Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeous demand for a formal apology from the Philippines for what he described as the cold-blooded murder of the Taiwanese fisherman smacked of a diplomatic trap. President Aquino and his advisers sought to avoid it by expressing the apology for the unintended loss of life of the Taiwanese fisherman on behalf of the Filipino peopleand not the Philippine government. 

It was a distinction that President Ma and other Taiwanese politicians could not miss, and so Taiwan rejected the apology as insincere, though its spokesman focused more on the non-admission of the intent to kill to explain the rejection.

Taiwans demand for fishery talks sounds reasonable enough since the May shooting was basically about who could legally fish in the waters between Taiwan and the Philippines. But again it will be a challenge for the Philippines as it seeks to protect its interests and maintain its balancing act between Taiwan and China in the process of sorting out the issue of fishing rights.

OVERLAPPING ZONES

When Taiwan and Japan signed a landmark fishery agreement last April after 17 long years of negotiations, China objected and called on Japan to act in line with the One China policy. A similar reaction can be expected from Beijing if and when the Philippines and Taiwan work out a fishery pact. But an agreement is still doable as long as it is done on a non-governmental basis and does not directly challenge the One China policy.

But it can be a complicated process since it will involve the issue of overlapping exclusive economic zones (EEZ) between Taiwan, the Philippines and also China. Since China views Taiwan as its province, albeit one that is not under Beijings direct control, it will also consider Taiwans EEZ as part of Chinas EEZ. 

Its worth noting that China and Taiwan share similar territorial and maritime claims in the South China Sea represented by the 9-dash line. In fact, Chinas official map show a total of 10 dashes, with the 9th line crossing the waters between Taiwan and the Philippines and the 10th line right beside Taiwan.

Since Taiwanese fishing fleets are much more technologically advanced than their Filipino counterparts, their quest for more catch impels them to sail farther away from home and closer to the waters off Batanes, which is bountiful in tuna. With the big demand for tuna among Taiwanese consumers, their fishermen can earn higher incomes from such catch.

JUST 39 MILES 

*The May shooting incident happened 164 nautical miles from the southernmost tip of Taiwan, but just 39 miles from Batanes. The Taiwanese claim that their fishermen were operating in disputed waters where the EEZs overlap will not hold water under closer scrutiny since international law calls for observing an equitable median line in such overlapping areas. This incident certainly transpired way below the median line that applies in this case, and thus very much beyond what is permissible under the UN Law of the Sea.
*
But the tragic death of a Taiwanese fisherman certainly calls for a serious review by the Philippines of the rules of engagement employed by its maritime and naval units. The results of the probe into the shooting will show if there was excessive use of force and the responsibility of those involved.

Since the Philippines shares the same maritime space with China and Taiwan on its western and northern borders, similar incidents could happen whenever the annual fishing season is at hand. And it is almost inconceivable what the consequences would be if ever the victim is a fisherman from the Chinese mainland.

Indeed, firing a single bullet, whether intentionally or accidentally, can lead to a full-scale crisis, if not war, in the troubled waters surrounding the Philippines. 

The Perils of Dealing with Taiwan &mdash; Positively Filipino

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## WuMaoCleverbot

sdjd2013 said:


> *it's amazing why some Filipinos defy the findings of their own NBI.*  PCG had no right to shoot! That's the END! what more do you guys want? Your own investigators said that PCG was WRONG! all that diplomatic jousting was just delaying the inevitable, and what everyone knew (including the 14 U.S. Congressmen who condemned the shooting). Let it be a forgone conclusion that it was a wrongful act to shoot a fisherman, trespassing or not. now the question is whether it was intentional -- another forgone conclusion by any means.



I doubt the findings of the NBI....our Philippine gov't is withholding the shooting incident video. The Taiwanese gov't already has a copy since May 31. *Why is it both the Philippine gov't and Taiwanese gov't are not making the shooting incident video public???*

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## sdjd2013

Bienvenido said:


> DOJ prepared an honest to goodness report while Taipei prepared with supporting evidences all questionable since Taiwan is infamous for counterfeiting.



What kind of stupid rumor are you trying to spread? what evidence do you have to support your spurious claim?

Is that why Apple and Microsoft entrust their technologies to FoxConn and HTC (both Taiwanese owned)?? 

That's like saying Taiwan Semi Conductor is infamous for selling counterfeits, or PH is infamous for clean hookers.

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## sdjd2013

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> I doubt the findings of the NBI....our Philippine gov't is withholding the shooting incident video. The Taiwanese gov't already has a copy since May 31. *Why is it both the Philippine gov't and Taiwanese gov't are not making the shooting incident video public???*



I know this is futile, b/c most of you are incorrigible, and are stuck in your intransigence. PH and Taiwan want to publish their findings at the same time, so as not to draw criticism from the public that the first to publish is trying to sabotage the latter. Can you not understand this? This is an attempt by both gov't to maintain goodwill, b/c they both have realized the uproar amongst the citizenry in both countries. Again, this attempt to maintain goodwill will fail, b/c most PH citizens cannot understand the gravity of harm in shooting an unarm citizen of another country by a government agent. Thus, your question that how can whether the fisherman crossed the border be irrelevant is proof, that you do not understand the principle that you cannot shoot an unarmed, defenseless person under any circumstances, as most of you Pinoys on in this forum are incapable of understanding, contrary to the conventional wisdom of the world, and embarrassing yourselves and your country in the process.

you guys are so OBTUSE.. how can your news mention the Japan - Taiwan Fishery Agreement but not the DETAILS of it??? A fishery agreement has nothing to do with border disputes. It is a reciprocity allowing fishermen from both countries to conduct business in DISPUTED waters. it has nothing to do with the disputes between China, PH, and Taiwan. Get it through your thick skulls, man.. SIGH..........

Taiwan is ready to publish, but we are waiting for NBI to finish, since DOJ and NBI cannot agree on whether to charge the shooter with murder or not.

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## sdjd2013

Honestly, how many Pinoys does it take to screw a light bulb? Why are Latino brains more expensive than Asians?
If you don't get it, then you will never understand the conclusions rendered by NBI, your DOJ, and Taiwan.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

sdjd2013 said:


> I know this is futile, b/c most of you are incorrigible, and are stuck in your intransigence. * PH and Taiwan want to publish their findings at the same time, so as not to draw criticism from the public that the first to publish is trying to sabotage the latter.*  Can you not understand this? This is an attempt by both gov't to maintain goodwill, b/c they both have realized the uproar amongst the citizenry in both countries. Again, this attempt to maintain goodwill will fail, b/c most PH citizens cannot understand the gravity of harm in shooting an unarm citizen of another country by a government agent. Thus, your question that how can whether the fisherman crossed the border be irrelevant is proof, that you do not understand the principle that *you cannot shoot an unarmed, defenseless person under any circumstances*, as most of you Pinoys on in this forum are incapable of understanding, contrary to the conventional wisdom of the world, and embarrassing yourselves and your country in the process.
> 
> you guys are so OBTUSE.. how can your news mention the Japan - Taiwan Fishery Agreement but not the DETAILS of it??? A fishery agreement has nothing to do with border disputes. It is a reciprocity allowing fishermen from both countries to conduct business in DISPUTED waters. it has nothing to do with the disputes between China, PH, and Taiwan. Get it through your thick skulls, man.. SIGH..........
> 
> Taiwan is ready to publish, but we are waiting for NBI to finish, since DOJ and NBI cannot agree on whether to charge the shooter with murder or not.



When did it became the shooting incident video became synonymous with the Philippine and Taiwanese findings??? I'm not asking about the findings...I'm asking about the video.

Here read this:

*Notes on the Taiwan-Philippines Dispute by Ming-Sung Kuo* 

*Legally speaking, the issue is whether the use of force is necessary for the Philippines Coast Guard to enforce its rights under Article 73, paragraph 1 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Preventing suspect poachers from 'fleeing' the jurisdiction of the coastal state concerned, including the disabling of suspect vessels by the use of arms, is a legitimate means to that end. *Whether the said Taiwanese vessel attempted to flee, which would be a crucial factor in determining on the legality (ie necessity in this case) of the Philippines Coast Guard's use of force, cannot be answered until all legal procedures, including a thorough investigation, are completed.

The View from Taiwan: Phils/Taiwan Mess Round Up: Links-n-stuff

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## Fsjal

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> I doubt the findings of the NBI....our Philippine gov't is withholding the shooting incident video. The Taiwanese gov't already has a copy since May 31. *Why is it both the Philippine gov't and Taiwanese gov't are not making the shooting incident video public???*



Because Aquino and his cronies are hiding something.

Conspiracies. Gotta get my tinfoil hat first



sdjd2013 said:


> Honestly, how many *Pinoys does it take to screw a light bulb*? Why are Latino brains more expensive than Asians?
> If you don't get it, then you will never understand the conclusions rendered by NBI, your DOJ, and Taiwan.



None, since they have no electricity.

Back on topic: the NBI and DOJ are hopeless. Anyway, did Taiwan finish their investigation?

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## sdjd2013

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> When did it became the shooting incident video became synonymous with the Philippine and Taiwanese findings??? I'm not asking about the findings...I'm asking about the video.
> 
> Here read this:
> 
> *Notes on the Taiwan-Philippines Dispute by Ming-Sung Kuo*
> 
> 
> *Legally speaking, the issue is whether the use of force is necessary for the Philippines Coast Guard to enforce its rights under Article 73, paragraph 1 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Preventing suspect poachers from 'fleeing' the jurisdiction of the coastal state concerned, including the disabling of suspect vessels by the use of arms, is a legitimate means to that end. *Whether the said Taiwanese vessel attempted to flee, which would be a crucial factor in determining on the legality (ie necessity in this case) of the Philippines Coast Guard's use of force, cannot be answered until all legal procedures, including a thorough investigation, are completed.
> 
> The View from Taiwan: Phils/Taiwan Mess Round Up: Links-n-stuff




Article 73
Enforcement of laws and regulations of the coastal State
1. The coastal State may, in the exercise of its sovereign rights to
explore, exploit, conserve and manage the living resources in the exclusive
economic zone, take such measures, including boarding, inspection, arrest
and judicial proceedings, as may be necessary to ensure compliance with the
laws and regulations adopted by it in conformity with this Convention.
2. Arrested vessels and their crews shall be promptly released upon the
posting of reasonable bond or other security.
3. Coastal State penalties for violations of fisheries laws and
regulations in the exclusive economic zone may not include imprisonment, in
the absence of agreements to the contrary by the States concerned, or any
other form of corporal punishment.
4. In cases of arrest or detention of foreign vessels the coastal State
shall promptly notify the flag State, through appropriate channels, of the
action taken and of any penalties subsequently imposed.

Above is the full text of Article 73, now where does it say you may shoot AN UNARMED FISHING VESSEL to disable it? Either the professor is an idiot, or he is a fake. However, the article does say in paragraph 3 that "imprisonment" is not allowed as penalty in the absence of an agreement. PH has been violating this rule for last 20 years. SMART GUY...


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## sdjd2013

Besides, the UN convention is so vague it does not take into account the conflict of laws between nations. Taiwan may not be recognized as a nation, but it still has a right to protect the lives of its citizens, including the use of force to repel unauthorized and inhumane treatment.

Ma didn't overreact. His demeanor and measures are appropriate to elicit a prompt and proper response, given how PH has ignored a similar incident in 2006. Even if Ma doesn't react, do you think the rest of Chinese will sit idly while Taiwanese fishermen are being harassed and shot at by PCG?

If Taiwan was clearly on the wrong side, then there should be no outrage or condemnation expressed by U.S. congressmen.


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## sdjd2013

Fsjal said:


> Because Aquino and his cronies are hiding something.
> 
> Conspiracies. Gotta get my tinfoil hat first
> 
> 
> 
> None, since they have no electricity.
> 
> Back on topic: the NBI and DOJ are hopeless. Anyway, did Taiwan finish their investigation?



of course they did, even if they said not yet due to necessity of conferring with PH counterparts. Taiwan has toned down and being diplomatic.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

sdjd2013 said:


> Article 73
> Enforcement of laws and regulations of the coastal State
> 1. The coastal State may, in the exercise of its sovereign rights to
> explore, exploit, conserve and manage the living resources in the exclusive
> economic zone, take such measures, including boarding, inspection, arrest
> and judicial proceedings, as may be necessary to ensure compliance with the
> laws and regulations adopted by it in conformity with this Convention.
> 2. Arrested vessels and their crews shall be promptly released upon the
> posting of reasonable bond or other security.
> 3. Coastal State penalties for violations of fisheries laws and
> regulations in the exclusive economic zone may not include imprisonment, in
> the absence of agreements to the contrary by the States concerned, or any
> other form of corporal punishment.
> 4. In cases of arrest or detention of foreign vessels the coastal State
> shall promptly notify the flag State, through appropriate channels, of the
> action taken and of any penalties subsequently imposed.
> 
> Above is the full text of Article 73, *now where does it say you may shoot AN UNARMED FISHING VESSEL to disable it?* Either the professor is an idiot, or he is a fake. However, the article does say in paragraph 3 that "imprisonment" is not allowed as penalty in the absence of an agreement. PH has been violating this rule for last 20 years. SMART GUY...



*Where in article 73 will you read that it excludes the use of force to prevent suspect poachers from 'fleeing' the jurisdiction of the coastal state concerned??? ANSWER: NONE. *


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## sdjd2013

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Where in article 73 will you read that it excludes the use of force to prevent suspect poachers from 'fleeing' the jurisdiction of the coastal state concerned??? ANSWER: NONE. *



It's a matter of interpretation. HOw do you extrapolate from "Boarding, inspection, arrest, and judicial proceedings, to shooting at an unarmed fishing boat indiscriminately?

Does fleeing constitute resisting arrest? Can a cop shoot indiscriminately at a fleeing arrestee anytime?

the U.S. would never do what PCG has done, unless U.S. believes the fleeing boat poses a public threat, such as a contraband trafficker.

That professor guy missed the point by a mile. I think he was better off keeping his stupid mouth shut.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> It's a matter of interpretation. HOw do you extrapolate from "Boarding, inspection, arrest, and judicial proceedings, to shooting at an unarmed fishing boat indiscriminately?
> 
> Does fleeing constitute resisting arrest? Can a cop shoot indiscriminately at a fleeing arrestee anytime?
> 
> the U.S. would never do what PCG has done, unless U.S. believes the fleeing boat poses a public threat, such as a contraband trafficker.
> 
> That professor guy missed the point by a mile. I think he was better off keeping his stupid mouth shut.



Really? now i think you forgot ramming!


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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> Really? now i think you forgot ramming!



what ramming?!!?? nbi admitted there was no ramming!!

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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> what ramming?!!?? nbi admitted there was no ramming!!



Since when they said they recommended filing charges


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## soaringeagle

MANILA -- Philippine Justice Secretary Leila de Lima confirmed on Thursday the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) had recommended the filing of criminal and administrative cases against members of the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) involved in the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman last month.
In a text message from Spain where she is attending the World Congress Against Death Penalty, de Lima confirmed that the PCG men involved in the incident may be held criminally and administratively liable, but she declined to state categorically what charges should be filed based on the recommendations of the NBI in its fact-finding report.
De Lima said the report has already been submitted to President Benigno Aquino III, who has the prerogative to either adopt it as it is, or subject it to another layer of review by his own legal team.
"I'm confirming that the NBI already submitted the report. I forwarded the report (to Aquino) before I left for Madrid. The NBI recommended the filing of criminal and administrative charges (but) I cannot disclose yet what exactly the charges had been recommended until it is disclosed by the president. So let's not preempt the reaction of the president," she said in a phone interview with reporters.
She also declined to comment on whether she agreed with the supposed NBI finding of a security lapse, unnecessary use of excessive force and violation of the rules of engagement on the part of the PCG.
"I cannot disclose yet the findings of the report. So if I keep answering those questions then I will be disclosing already the specifics of the findings... Until the president approves or adopts the report it would be improper to disclose it," she said.
De Lima however hinted that the NBI would make use of the murder complaint filed by the victim's daughter, Hung Tzu Chien, before the Pingtung prosecutor's office in Taiwan.
"If the filing of recommended criminal charges is approved, the NBI would need a private complainant, so that would be the daughter of the fisherman. The NBI is looking at it (murder charge) as a private complaint," she said.
A source at the bureau who requested anonymity said that NBI probers were able to establish at least one of the six elements of murder under Article 248 of the Revised Penal Code, specifically the fact that the Taiwanese fishermen were unarmed at the time the coast guard fired at their vessel.
Investigators also claimed that the coast guard team might have violated the rules of engagement in allegedly using excessive force to drive away the supposed intruding fishermen, resulting in the death of Hung Shih-Cheng.
On May 9, PCG officers shot and killed 65-year-old Hung at sea 164 nautical miles southeast of Taiwan. The Philippine coast guard admitted later firing at the Taiwanese fishing vessel.
Investigation teams respectively organized by Taiwan and the Philippines have completed "parallel investigations" on the incident.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

sdjd2013 said:


> Besides, the UN convention is so vague it does not take into account the conflict of laws between nations. *Taiwan may not be recognized as a nation,* but it still has a right to protect the lives of its citizens, including the use of force to repel unauthorized and inhumane treatment.
> 
> Ma didn't overreact. His demeanor and measures are appropriate to elicit a prompt and proper response, given how PH has ignored a similar incident in 2006. Even if Ma doesn't react, do you think the rest of Chinese will sit idly while Taiwanese fishermen are being harassed and shot at by PCG?
> 
> If Taiwan was clearly on the wrong side, then there should be no outrage or condemnation expressed by U.S. congressmen.



Here read this:

*EDITORIAL: Ma sabotaging Taiwan&#8217;s democracy*
Thu, Jun 13, 2013

A delegation headed by former Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) chairman Wu Poh-hsiung (&#21555;&#20271;&#38596 departed for China yesterday and is today scheduled to meet with Chinese President and Chinese Community Party (CCP) General Secretary Xi Jinping (&#32722;&#36817;&#24179. It is the first such meeting under the KMT-CCP communication platform since Xi took the CCP&#8217;s helm in November last year. Among the delegation are former National Security Council secretary-general Su Chi (&#34311;&#36215 and former KMT vice chairman Chan Chun-po (&#35449;&#26149;&#26575, who was also the office director of President Ma Ying-jeou&#8217;s (&#39340;&#33521;&#20061 KMT chairmanship re-election campaign.
At first glance, some may describe the meeting as conventional, posing no threat to Taiwan. They would then be buying into Ma and the KMT&#8217;s claims that the political party-to-party communication channel serves to develop cross-strait ties and that more channels of communication help stabilize cross-strait relations.

Surely no one could object to options that improve cross-strait relations. However, what sort of &#8220;win-win situation&#8221; is there for Taiwan when the so-called &#8220;improved cross-strait relations&#8221; of the opaque KMT-CCP communication platform is built on marginalizing Taiwan&#8217;s democratic mechanisms? And where has the government&#8217;s integrity gone when its authority appears to have been usurped by this political platform setting the agenda for cross-strait development?

A meeting is scheduled for tomorrow in Taipei to set up a round of talks between Taiwan&#8217;s Straits Exchange Foundation (SEF) Chairman Lin Join-sane (&#26519;&#20013;&#26862 and China&#8217;s Association for Relations Across the Taiwan Straits (ARATS) Chairman Chen Deming (&#38515;&#24503;&#37528. At the to-be-scheduled talks a cross-strait service trade agreement is expected to be signed.

All this delivers an unsettling sense of deja vu: In May 2008, two months after the KMT returned to power, then-KMT chairman Wu immediately headed a delegation to Beijing to meet then-CCP general secretary and Chinese president Hu Jintao (&#32993;&#37670;&#28644 and touched on cross-strait charter flights and tourism. Less than one month later, the SEF and ARATS inked two agreements on weekend charter flights and opening Taiwan to Chinese tourists.

In response to concerns that the KMT-CCP forum could dictate cross-strait development, Ma has often said that this would not happen because all matters decided through the KMT-CCP communication platform must be approved by the government and agreed to by the SEF and ARATS.

Such assurances carry little weight, because the KMT-dominated legislature appears to blindly endorse any agreements ratified by the SEF and ARATS.

Taiwan is a democratic country, and yet the most crucial democratic element &#8212; public oversight and participation &#8212; has been shut out of the negotiation process.

*Adding insult to injury, Ma reiterated to Wu prior to his departure in a meeting on Monday that Taiwan and China &#8220;do not have state-to-state relations.&#8221;*

Granted, Ma may justify his statement with reference to the Republic of China (ROC) Constitution, which states that ROC territory includes China. The point is that China does not recognize this constitution. In other words, *Ma&#8217;s insistence that Taiwan and China do not have state-to-state relations ends up pandering to Xi because it translates to &#8220;Taiwan is not a country.&#8221;*

The nation&#8217;s democracy may be lauded as successful, but a chapter of sabotage from within is unfolding under the lead of the Ma government. This government disregards the voice of the people, while it clings to the concept of &#8220;leading the government with the party.&#8221;

EDITORIAL: Ma sabotaging Taiwan?s democracy - Taipei Times

Your own president don't recognize Taiwan as a country.

I think you should kick him from the office when election time comes.

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## JSCh

> Such assurances carry little weight, because the KMT-dominated legislature appears to blindly endorse any agreements ratified by the SEF and ARATS.
> 
> Taiwan is a democratic country, and yet the most crucial democratic element  public oversight and participation  has been shut out of the negotiation process.


"Public oversight and participation has been shut out". Isn't the legislature elected? This people is funny, because they don't like the outcome, they called what is being debated and oversee by the elected legislature not democratic. 

And this come from "Taipei Times" editorial? Maybe "Taipei Times" should set up an office and appoint themselves to issue certificate of democracy.<\sarcasm>

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## Malaya



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## sdjd2013

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Where in article 73 will you read that it excludes the use of force to prevent suspect poachers from 'fleeing' the jurisdiction of the coastal state concerned??? ANSWER: NONE. *



To do something as drastic as shooting at an unarmed fishing boat, you need authority from a law that is very specific in language. You cannot vaguely and personally interpret the law in such a fashion to put lives in peril.

The professor you referred to is the only Taiwanese speaking out for PH, and all the Pinoys jumped on the wagon. Anyways, he said whether the shooting was legal depends on whether the fisherman was fleeing, which is WAAAAYYYYYY OFF BASE, as NBI doesn't think that is even relevant and NBI's investigation findings are collaborated by Taiwan authorities.


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## sdjd2013

Malaya said:


>



poacher my ***. Taiwanese fishermen don't hunt endangered species. should Taiwan arrest every Pinoy fisherman that comes within 200 NM of Taiwan that it considers its EEZ? You guys keep assuming Taiwan has no authority to assert EEZ, but that is not the reality, unless you all want war, which is pretty stupid considering you will throw the entire asia into chaos, sacrificing your allies, not to mention changing the composition of the region, all for little PH...

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## sdjd2013

JSCh said:


> "Public oversight and participation has been shut out". Isn't the legislature elected? This people is funny, because they don't like the outcome, they called what is being debated and oversee by the elected legislature not democratic.
> 
> And this come from "Taipei Times" editorial? Maybe "Taipei Times" should set up an office and appoint themselves to issue certificate of democracy.<\sarcasm>



The article was probably written by the DDP, warmongers who want cessation from China and become the state of Taiwan. They don't care if everyone in Taiwan dies, or if WWIII starts, as long as they achieve political agenda by defeating KMT. Real Chinese cowboys who rather be identified as the relics of Japan from WWII.

MA has been called a lot of things, but a "traitor" of democracy is the first, and pretty fu cking ludicrous. Editorials like this that disparages and degrades the honor of a president IS the product of democracy, and the fact the president tolerates such harsh criticism is support for democracy. The author of the article has slapped him/herself in the face by writing such stupid thing.

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## Fsjal

These coast guards are the pirates of the sea. China and Taiwan should send warships and wipe out the entire Philippine Navy. Anyway, the South China Sea could need some more corals.



Malaya said:


>



What is with the propaganda pic?

You may not have killed a saint, but they did kill an innocent man.

Disgusting act.

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## Zero_wing

Hahahaha just accept that you people are not like by majority of Asian due to the fact you people love steal ideas and resources from everybody i think its time for you jerks to change for the better cursing us will not change your wrongs. Well as we say here kung ano ang ginawa mo babalik rin sa iyo (what you did will come back to you)


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## faithfulguy

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Here read this:
> 
> *EDITORIAL: Ma sabotaging Taiwan&#8217;s democracy*
> Thu, Jun 13, 2013
> 
> A delegation headed by former Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) chairman Wu Poh-hsiung (&#21555;&#20271;&#38596 departed for China yesterday and is today scheduled to meet with Chinese President and Chinese Community Party (CCP) General Secretary Xi Jinping (&#32722;&#36817;&#24179. It is the first such meeting under the KMT-CCP communication platform since Xi took the CCP&#8217;s helm in November last year. Among the delegation are former National Security Council secretary-general Su Chi (&#34311;&#36215 and former KMT vice chairman Chan Chun-po (&#35449;&#26149;&#26575, who was also the office director of President Ma Ying-jeou&#8217;s (&#39340;&#33521;&#20061 KMT chairmanship re-election campaign.
> At first glance, some may describe the meeting as conventional, posing no threat to Taiwan. They would then be buying into Ma and the KMT&#8217;s claims that the political party-to-party communication channel serves to develop cross-strait ties and that more channels of communication help stabilize cross-strait relations.
> 
> Surely no one could object to options that improve cross-strait relations. However, what sort of &#8220;win-win situation&#8221; is there for Taiwan when the so-called &#8220;improved cross-strait relations&#8221; of the opaque KMT-CCP communication platform is built on marginalizing Taiwan&#8217;s democratic mechanisms? And where has the government&#8217;s integrity gone when its authority appears to have been usurped by this political platform setting the agenda for cross-strait development?
> 
> A meeting is scheduled for tomorrow in Taipei to set up a round of talks between Taiwan&#8217;s Straits Exchange Foundation (SEF) Chairman Lin Join-sane (&#26519;&#20013;&#26862 and China&#8217;s Association for Relations Across the Taiwan Straits (ARATS) Chairman Chen Deming (&#38515;&#24503;&#37528. At the to-be-scheduled talks a cross-strait service trade agreement is expected to be signed.
> 
> All this delivers an unsettling sense of deja vu: In May 2008, two months after the KMT returned to power, then-KMT chairman Wu immediately headed a delegation to Beijing to meet then-CCP general secretary and Chinese president Hu Jintao (&#32993;&#37670;&#28644 and touched on cross-strait charter flights and tourism. Less than one month later, the SEF and ARATS inked two agreements on weekend charter flights and opening Taiwan to Chinese tourists.
> 
> In response to concerns that the KMT-CCP forum could dictate cross-strait development, Ma has often said that this would not happen because all matters decided through the KMT-CCP communication platform must be approved by the government and agreed to by the SEF and ARATS.
> 
> Such assurances carry little weight, because the KMT-dominated legislature appears to blindly endorse any agreements ratified by the SEF and ARATS.
> 
> Taiwan is a democratic country, and yet the most crucial democratic element &#8212; public oversight and participation &#8212; has been shut out of the negotiation process.
> 
> *Adding insult to injury, Ma reiterated to Wu prior to his departure in a meeting on Monday that Taiwan and China &#8220;do not have state-to-state relations.&#8221;*
> 
> Granted, Ma may justify his statement with reference to the Republic of China (ROC) Constitution, which states that ROC territory includes China. The point is that China does not recognize this constitution. In other words, *Ma&#8217;s insistence that Taiwan and China do not have state-to-state relations ends up pandering to Xi because it translates to &#8220;Taiwan is not a country.&#8221;*
> 
> The nation&#8217;s democracy may be lauded as successful, but a chapter of sabotage from within is unfolding under the lead of the Ma government. This government disregards the voice of the people, while it clings to the concept of &#8220;leading the government with the party.&#8221;
> 
> EDITORIAL: Ma sabotaging Taiwan?s democracy - Taipei Times
> 
> Your own president don't recognize Taiwan as a country.
> 
> I think you should kick him from the office when election time comes.



He recognized that Taiwan by itself is not a country. Its the free area of Republic of China which includes mainland China. Taiwan is a province of Republic of China.

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## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> He recognized that Taiwan by itself is not a country. Its the free area of Republic of China which includes mainland China. Taiwan is a province of Republic of China.



So you just say we should not be talking to taiwan we should talk to china


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## Fsjal

^No^

You should talk to both.


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## JSCh

Criminal?

Apparently a bunch of Philippine coast guard appointed themselves prosecutor, judge and jury without even able to present coherent evidence.

I hope the coast guard would be put in jail soon, because behavior as such is a menace to civilized society.

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## Snomannen

faithfulguy said:


> He recognized that Taiwan by itself is not a country. Its the free area of Republic of China which includes mainland China. Taiwan is a province of Republic of China.



As I have mentioned before, when the Phil wants Taiwan's $$, they have "official, equal contacts". When there is an accident, Taiwan suddenly becomes part of China. Lets see a not-so-similar case in 2008 when the CE of HK Tsang wished to contact with the Phil's president. He was criticized "impolite" by the reason of "A CE should not dare to directly talk to our president". But they seems to forget that their huge amount of maids apply for jobs by talking with the HK government, not with the Mainland government.

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## faithfulguy

KirovAirship said:


> As I have mentioned before, when the Phil wants Taiwan's $$, they have "official, equal contacts". When there is an accident, Taiwan suddenly becomes part of China. Lets see a not-so-similar case in 2008 when the CE of HK Tsang wished to contact with the Phil's president. He was criticized "impolite" by the reason of "A CE should not dare to directly talk to our president". But they seems to forget that their huge amount of maids apply for jobs by talking with the HK government, not with the Mainland government.



People who are weak always have the need to act strong and feel important.

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## sdjd2013

faithfulguy said:


> People who are weak always have the need to act strong and feel important.



Not only that, PH is the epitome of the Chinese fable/ adage - Fox pretending to be the Tiger - when the fox (PH) allied with the Tiger (U.S.), it walks through the jungle along side the Tiger, acting as though it(PH) is intimidating to other animals, when other animals are really intimated by the tiger (US) behind the fox (PH). Here, the pinoys actually believe they have the strength of the U.S.

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## faithfulguy

sdjd2013 said:


> Not only that, PH is the epitome of the Chinese fable/ adage - Fox pretending to be the Tiger - when the fox (PH) allied with the Tiger (U.S.), it walks through the jungle along side the Tiger, acting as though it(PH) is intimidating to other animals, when other animals are really intimated by the tiger (US) behind the fox (PH). Here, the pinoys actually believe they have the strength of the U.S.



Well, even they know that they are weak. So they need to seek protection from America. But America should not get involve in other country's issues. In this case, Taiwan and Philippines should resolve this issues by themselves instead of involving America. If the Filipinos feel that they are incapable, then they need to strengthen themselves instead of crying to America every time.

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## Zero_wing

Man all you chinese and false flaggers are having a field day over recommendations man are you people that stupid or born stupid?


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## Bienvenido

Use of superior force is justified if thieves resist arrest, as in this case. If they flee or threaten the arresting officers by ramming their boat - again, as in this case - I say, use all necessary force to stop them. Without the fear of being hurt, criminals will not submit to arrests. Hail to the PCG for a job well done!

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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> Man all you chinese and false flaggers are having a field day over recommendations man are you people that stupid or born stupid?



Are you saying Pinoys should not support the findings of your own government? Do you not agree NBI/ DOJ's recommendations are based on findings of facts? Are you too stupid to acknowledge the truth? the only question is how will Aquino reconcile the recommendations with his plead for the country to band together against CHINA. However he treats the recommendations will define his character either as an honest person, or dishonest one with political agenda.



soaringeagle said:


> MANILA -- Philippine Justice Secretary Leila de Lima confirmed on Thursday the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) had recommended the filing of criminal and administrative cases against members of the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) involved in the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman last month.
> In a text message from Spain where she is attending the World Congress Against Death Penalty, de Lima confirmed that the PCG men involved in the incident may be held criminally and administratively liable, but she declined to state categorically what charges should be filed based on the recommendations of the NBI in its fact-finding report.
> De Lima said the report has already been submitted to President Benigno Aquino III, who has the prerogative to either adopt it as it is, or subject it to another layer of review by his own legal team.
> "I'm confirming that the NBI already submitted the report. I forwarded the report (to Aquino) before I left for Madrid. The NBI recommended the filing of criminal and administrative charges (but) I cannot disclose yet what exactly the charges had been recommended until it is disclosed by the president. So let's not preempt the reaction of the president," she said in a phone interview with reporters.
> She also declined to comment on whether she agreed with the supposed NBI finding of a security lapse, unnecessary use of excessive force and violation of the rules of engagement on the part of the PCG.
> "I cannot disclose yet the findings of the report. So if I keep answering those questions then I will be disclosing already the specifics of the findings... Until the president approves or adopts the report it would be improper to disclose it," she said.
> De Lima however hinted that the NBI would make use of the murder complaint filed by the victim's daughter, Hung Tzu Chien, before the Pingtung prosecutor's office in Taiwan.
> "If the filing of recommended criminal charges is approved, the NBI would need a private complainant, so that would be the daughter of the fisherman. The NBI is looking at it (murder charge) as a private complaint," she said.
> A source at the bureau who requested anonymity said that NBI probers were able to establish at least one of the six elements of murder under Article 248 of the Revised Penal Code, specifically the fact that the Taiwanese fishermen were unarmed at the time the coast guard fired at their vessel.
> Investigators also claimed that the coast guard team might have violated the rules of engagement in allegedly using excessive force to drive away the supposed intruding fishermen, resulting in the death of Hung Shih-Cheng.
> On May 9, PCG officers shot and killed 65-year-old Hung at sea 164 nautical miles southeast of Taiwan. The Philippine coast guard admitted later firing at the Taiwanese fishing vessel.
> Investigation teams respectively organized by Taiwan and the Philippines have completed "parallel investigations" on the incident.



PLEASE, if you have any more doubts about the ramming or questions about the recommendations of your own government agency, ask your own government or consult a newspaper once in a while to stay current... sigh

Maybe they don't have newspaper in spain b/c no one reads it since everyone is too busy taking Ciestas after Fiestas!


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## sdjd2013

Bienvenido said:


> Use of superior force is justified if thieves resist arrest, as in this case. If they flee or threaten the arresting officers by ramming their boat - again, as in this case - I say, use all necessary force to stop them. Without the fear of being hurt, criminals will not submit to arrests. Hail to the PCG for a job well done!



It's useless talking to people like you. Maybe you got rammed too much when you were a kid. I think war is the only answer to sooth savages like you.

Except, Im afraid your PCG will all run in the direction of the 7th fleet when sh it hits the fan, like a crybaby to his mother tit.

By comparison:
Chinese - smart, experienced in warfare, determined to the end, refuse to accept defeat, as history has proven time and time again;
Filipinos - identity crisis, lack of confidence, live in a cacoon, fold like a cheap tent, as history has shown (why would anyone pay homage to the poorest and dirtiest country in Europe?).


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> It's useless talking to people like you. Maybe you got rammed too much when you were a kid. I think war is the only answer to sooth savages like you.
> 
> Except, Im afraid your PCG will all run in the direction of the 7th fleet when sh it hits the fan, like a crybaby to his mother tit.
> 
> By comparison:
> Chinese - smart, experienced in warfare, determined to the end, refuse to accept defeat, as history has proven time and time again;
> Filipinos - identity crisis, lack of confidence, live in a cacoon, fold like a cheap tent, as history has shown (why would anyone pay homage to the poorest and dirtiest country in Europe?).




Again with the racist and revisionist b.s man your running out of indisputable b.s now its just arrogant shots well what can one expect from losers hehehehe hahahahaha losers

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## Bienvenido

sdjd2013 said:


> It's useless talking to people like you. Maybe you got rammed too much when you were a kid. I think war is the only answer to sooth savages like you.
> 
> Except, Im afraid your PCG will all run in the direction of the 7th fleet when sh it hits the fan, like a crybaby to his mother tit.
> 
> By comparison:
> Chinese - smart, experienced in warfare, determined to the end, refuse to accept defeat, as history has proven time and time again;
> Filipinos - identity crisis, lack of confidence, live in a cacoon, fold like a cheap tent, as history has shown (why would anyone pay homage to the poorest and dirtiest country in Europe?).


A poacher is a poacher. Call him in any other name, he remains a poacher. The poacher saw it coming. How can you give sympathy for someone stealing your nation's resources? Shame on you!

This is not the first time that this kind of incident happens on your poachers. On one incident that occur in Argentine waters the Taiwanese fisherman didn't even try to ram the Argentine coast guards they just refuse to follow commands.

The Argentine navy fired on the Taiwanese vessel Chain Der 3 setting it ablaze killing 1 crew, 1 crew lost to sea (presumed dead), and 3 crews injured.

Did the Taiwanese government over react on this incident?

Did the Taiwanese fishermen learn from this incident that poaching fish in other countries can endanger their lives?

Taiwanese are good at acting. You think crying can sway judgment in your favor, to you emotion can make you right. Even President, after combing his hair at the right angle...would snarl his anguish and "righteous anger" in front of any TV camera available. This tactic, you hope can make the world forget that the Taiwanese are poachers and wrong from the start.

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## Malaya

sdjd2013 said:


> poacher my ***. Taiwanese fishermen don't hunt endangered species. should Taiwan arrest every Pinoy fisherman that comes within 200 NM of Taiwan that it considers its EEZ? You guys keep assuming Taiwan has no authority to assert EEZ, but that is not the reality, unless you all want war, which is pretty stupid considering you will throw the entire asia into chaos, sacrificing your allies, not to mention changing the composition of the region, all for little PH...


Talk about of your arrogance and pride of stealing the resources of our peace loving country. We don't owe anything you. A good fisherman does not fish from another fisherman's waters. Unlike your fishermen who always illegally enter into our territory to fish on our waters.


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## Malaya

Bienvenido said:


> A poacher is a poacher. Call him in any other name, he remains a poacher. The poacher saw it coming. How can you give sympathy for someone stealing your nation's resources? Shame on you!
> 
> This is not the first time that this kind of incident happens on your poachers. On one incident that occur in Argentine waters the Taiwanese fisherman didn't even try to ram the Argentine coast guards they just refuse to follow commands.
> 
> The Argentine navy fired on the Taiwanese vessel Chain Der 3 setting it ablaze killing 1 crew, 1 crew lost to sea (presumed dead), and 3 crews injured.
> 
> Did the Taiwanese government over react on this incident?
> 
> Did the Taiwanese fishermen learn from this incident that poaching fish in other countries can endanger their lives?
> 
> Taiwanese are good at acting. You think crying can sway judgment in your favor, to you emotion can make you right. Even President, after combing his hair at the right angle...would snarl his anguish and "righteous anger" in front of any TV camera available. This tactic, you hope can make the world forget that the Taiwanese are poachers and wrong from the start.


I wouldn't feel emotional for someone who's stealing my fish. 

The Taiwanese boat deserved to be shot for it disobeyed the call to stop and be boarded. These arrogant Taiwanese even dared ram our boat in our own waters. The nerve!


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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> Again with the racist and revisionist b.s man your running out of indisputable b.s now its just arrogant shots well what can one expect from losers hehehehe hahahahaha losers



same with you. It's okay for you to make racist remarks about Chinese? but not when you are on receiving end?



Bienvenido said:


> A poacher is a poacher. Call him in any other name, he remains a poacher. The poacher saw it coming. How can you give sympathy for someone stealing your nation's resources? Shame on you!
> 
> This is not the first time that this kind of incident happens on your poachers. On one incident that occur in Argentine waters the Taiwanese fisherman didn't even try to ram the Argentine coast guards they just refuse to follow commands.
> 
> The Argentine navy fired on the Taiwanese vessel Chain Der 3 setting it ablaze killing 1 crew, 1 crew lost to sea (presumed dead), and 3 crews injured.
> 
> Did the Taiwanese government over react on this incident?
> 
> Did the Taiwanese fishermen learn from this incident that poaching fish in other countries can endanger their lives?
> 
> Taiwanese are good at acting. You think crying can sway judgment in your favor, to you emotion can make you right. Even President, after combing his hair at the right angle...would snarl his anguish and "righteous anger" in front of any TV camera available. This tactic, you hope can make the world forget that the Taiwanese are poachers and wrong from the start.



it's okay, if you guys think life is cheaper than fish, then you can have your fish back. And, this was not the first incident. people who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. PH will someday become the colony of another country.. and U.S. can't do jack about it... you will see.


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## sdjd2013

Malaya said:


> I wouldn't feel emotional for someone who's stealing my fish.
> 
> The Taiwanese boat deserved to be shot for it disobeyed the call to stop and be boarded. These arrogant Taiwanese even dared ram our boat in our own waters. The nerve!



Since Ma is too much of a ***** to follow through with his threats, I hope China will kill couple of PCG's for the dead fisherman.

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## USAHawk785

sdjd2013 said:


> same with you. It's okay for you to make racist remarks about Chinese? but not when you are on receiving end?
> 
> 
> 
> it's okay, if you guys think life is cheaper than fish, then you can have your fish back. And, this was not the first incident. people who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. PH will someday become the colony of another country.. and U.S. can't do jack about it... you will see.




And China, which was colonized by western powers and divided into multiple spheres of interests, should watch its own rhetoric before that very wish comes true. Sometimes, wishes don't come true to your own liking.



sdjd2013 said:


> Since Ma is too much of a ***** to follow through with his threats, I hope China will kill couple of PCG's for the dead fisherman.



It won't dare do anything because the Sharks of the USN 7th Fleet roam the waters of Western Pacific. The Taiwanese and the Filipinos are under our influence. Within 4-6 weeks, both Taipei and Manila have already agreed to cease further clashes. 

Taiwan, because she is smart, won't dare cut her own lifeline. The Philippines, as well, know how to listen to her American Daddy.

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## Minjitta

USAHawk785 said:


> And China, which was colonized by western powers and divided into multiple spheres of interests, should watch its own rhetoric before that very wish comes true. Sometimes, wishes don't come true to your own liking.
> 
> 
> 
> It won't dare do anything because the Sharks of the USN 7th Fleet roam the waters of Western Pacific. The Taiwanese and the Filipinos are under our influence. Within 4-6 weeks, both Taipei and Manila have already agreed to cease further clashes.
> 
> Taiwan, because she is smart, won't dare cut her own lifeline. The Philippines, as well, know how to listen to her American Daddy.



None of the war on SCS going to happen anytime soon, may be 10-15 years from now. Only when all Asian countries military are build up enough to take on China. Then USA Fleet 7 announce it leaving the Pacific due to military budget cut. 
China then will wage war on all Asian countries, the war will continue until USA see an opportunity, then USA fleet 7 will joint the war against China and take credit of the war just like WWII.

This is the only way for USA to take over Asia and force her policy to all Asia.

That's my theory

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## USAHawk785

Minjitta said:


> None of the war on SCS going to happen anytime soon, may be 10-15 years from now. Only when all Asian countries military are build up enough to take on China. Then USA Fleet 7 announce it leaving the Pacific due to military budget cut.
> China then will wage war on all Asian countries, the war will continue until USA see an opportunity, then USA fleet 7 will joint the war against China and take credit of the war just like WWII.
> 
> This is the only way for USA to take over Asia and force her policy to all Asia.
> 
> That's my theory



Buddy,

We already impose our policy to Asia as we speak. We've practically contained the Chinese to her territorial waters, lmfao. 

I mean, come on. Over 4 decades ago we were bombing the hell out of the Viets. Now, they're courting our favor.

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## sdjd2013

USAHawk785 said:


> And China, which was colonized by western powers and divided into multiple spheres of interests, should watch its own rhetoric before that very wish comes true. Sometimes, wishes don't come true to your own liking.
> 
> 
> 
> It won't dare do anything because the Sharks of the USN 7th Fleet roam the waters of Western Pacific. The Taiwanese and the Filipinos are under our influence. Within 4-6 weeks, both Taipei and Manila have already agreed to cease further clashes.
> 
> Taiwan, because she is smart, won't dare cut her own lifeline. The Philippines, as well, know how to listen to her American Daddy.



You mean Shanghai and Hong Kong. Those territories were ceded in the late 19th to early 20th century. China was never colonized by anyone. The only foreign power that even came close to conquering 50% of China was Japan. Western powers were not strong enough, sorry buddy.. get your history right.

If you consider the MOngols a foreign power, then maybe, but eventually Mongols were homogenized by the Han culture and language, as have the Man Chus.

Also, you keep talking about the 7th fleet as though it is invincible. Don't be so confident. the fleet doesn't have enough patriot missiles to defend against the Chinese missiles, and it doesn't have enough planes, even adding all the planes from Japan and PH and Korea you won't have enough to engage in a war of attrition with China. And, don't forget the nukes. The day China gets carved up again would be the day the world ends, buddy. you talk about strategy as though you are playing a computer game. It's not a game. In the next WW, there won't be any earth left.

Lastly, your strategy is grossly deficient. U.S.' ties in Asia are only limited to economic interests, and that can be easily compromised if U.S. economy continues the lackluster path. And, don't forget China is the biggest creditor. If China wants to get nasty, the world economy will collapse, leaving all the western countries bankrupt, and the only countries that can afford a military are those with assets. Also, Taiwan will not stand idle while other nations invade China, unless there is something in it for them. That is why China wants Taiwan back, b/c not only will that open the gateway into the Pacific for China, it will also multiply its strength militarily, economically, and intellectually.


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## Fsjal

Why is America so interested in containing China, yet, they stray into foreign waters.

I would love it when a small nation sinks a couple of American ships.

Also, I think Russia should stand up against American ignorance and jingoism, and I blame it on the Republicans.


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## sdjd2013

Fsjal said:


> Why is America so interested in containing China, yet, they stray into foreign waters.
> 
> I would love it when a small nation sinks a couple of American ships.
> 
> Also, I think Russia should stand up against American ignorance and jingoism, and I blame it on the Republicans.



Irag has before the 1st Gulf War, using a Silkworm missile.

It's not the U.S., it's only USAhawk785, aka Dr. Death. U.S. couldn't afford to police any region, let alone engage in a conflict in East Asia. Stability there is on thin ice, and it's all up to China whether it wants to be aggressive or passive. Why do you think Obama invited Xi to Rancho Mirage? U.S. wants to be on China's good side, cuz it knows how much power China wields, economically and militarily. Even Japan is now nervous, clamoring for nukes and stealth technology.

BAsed on the current situation, given how fast China has advanced in the last 30 years, it would be inconceivable that any single country has the audacity to wage war on China now, or even 30 years from now. Forget about the 7th fleet. Maybe except stupid PH and Japan who thinks US will back them up, come hell or high water. US is not gonna sacrifice its sons and daughters, and crash its economy in the process, over stupid squabbles over a few islands. No American will stand for that.

Within 5 years, Japan will use all the T-bills it holds as a bargaining chip to get permission from U.S. to revitalize it's military to counter China's rising influence in the region. Given all the bad blood between the two countries and political systems, Japan has no choice. Taiwan is an unknown factor b/c it's politically polarized and uncertain. It will stay on the sideline unless a president with balls and brains who can lead the country and steer clear of dangers, while repatriating all the talents from the world and rebuild its military, so it can stop buying junk from the U.S. PH will stay a doormat for the U.S. soldiers. 1.53 billion over 5 years? what a joke.

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## iajj

Wholegrain said:


> Spoken like a true idiot who doesn't know anything about the history of Taiwan.
> 
> As I've said before, I'm not Hokkien, Hakka, and don't have aboriginal blood. I am mainlander.
> 
> That said, your insults against the above mentioned peoples are really stupid and intolerable.
> 
> The first Hokkien and Hakka settlers in Taiwan battled and fought against the European Dutch colonialist entity on Taiwan and expelled them in 1662 at Fort Zeelandia. They dealt one of the beginning blows of the resistance against western colonization.
> 
> The Spanish in the Philippines were so afraid of Zheng Chenggong's army on Taiwan after the Dutch were defeated, that they withdrew their soldiers who were fighting the Muslim Moros in the south.
> 
> As for the aboriginals, they attacked and slaughtered entire crews of Japanese and American sailors. The Japanese and Americans both launched military expeditions to fight the aboriginals after American and Japanese ships were ambushed and their crews were killed.
> 
> Look up the Rover Incident, Formosa Expedition of 1867, Mudan Incident of 1871, and Japanese invasion of Taiwan of 1874.
> 
> During the Sino French war, both Hakka, aboriginal and mainlanders fought against and humiliated the French army during the Keelung Campaign. The French were cornered at Keelung and failed to conquer Taiwan as they planned. They has to withdraw as part of the terms ending the war.
> 
> After the First Sino Japanese War, Taiwan refused to accede to the Japanese. The Taiwanese declared the Republic of Formosa to keep Taiwan out of Japanese hands and proclaimed that the Republic was loyal to the Qing dynasty. The Japanese had to launch another invasion in 1895 and fight against Hakka and Hokkien militia to take ov the island.
> 
> In the Tapani Incident in 1915, Hokkien, Hakka and Aboriginals rebelled against the Japanese and stormed Japanese police stations. Over 1,000 died in the revolt and 135 Taiwanese rebels were executed by the Japanese colonial government after the revolt was put down,
> 
> In the Wushe Incident of 1930, Taiwanese aboriginals of the Seediq tribe under Mona Rudao revolted against the Japanese colonizers. They only targeted Japanese people for killing and avoided killing Hokkien Han people. The revolt was brutally crushed by the Japanese.
> 
> All of your insults are dishonoring both the Han (hokkien and hakka) and Aboriginal Taiwanese who fought against the Dutch, Americans, Japanese, and French imperialists.



did YOU fight the dutch? the angloamericans? the nopponzi? or even the fino macacas? noooooooooo.

i am talking about YOU who willingly sacrifice your dignity to purchase angloamerican protection from mainland china. it is YOU, not necessarily your ancestors, who prefer assrape by angloameircans to a union with true blood chinese. it is YOU who are shameless and with no pride. it is YOU who deserve the worst abuse at angloamerican, nipponzi and fino hands, and i delight at such abuses.

what chinese ancestors did to achieve glory in dewan has nothing to do with you debazi. if i had sons behaving like you lot, even if their blood be pure, i would have snuffed them all because you debazi are sheer disgrace to your ancestral lineage and blood.


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## Wholegrain

iajj said:


> did YOU fight the dutch? the angloamericans? the nopponzi? or even the fino macacas? noooooooooo.
> 
> i am talking about YOU who willingly sacrifice your dignity to purchase angloamerican protection from mainland china. it is YOU, not necessarily your ancestors, who prefer assrape by angloameircans to a union with true blood chinese. it is YOU who are shameless and with no pride. it is YOU who deserve the worst abuse at angloamerican, nipponzi and fino hands, and i delight at such abuses.
> 
> what chinese ancestors did to achieve glory in dewan has nothing to do with you debazi. if i had sons behaving like you lot, even if their blood be pure, i would have snuffed them all because you debazi are sheer disgrace to your ancestral lineage and blood.



Whats this bullshit about pure blood? I already said I don't have any aboriginal blood, and it was the aboriginals wo defeated the American expedition on Taiwan and managed to kill an entire crew of American sailors.

Rover incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Formosa Expedition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was ABORIGINALS who killed and then hacked the heads off French soldiers in Taiwan to put on display at a market.

The island of Formosa, past and present: History, people, resources, and ... - James Wheeler Davidson - Google Books

ALL THREE of these rebellions against the Japanese involved aboriginals.

Beipu Uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tapani Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wushe Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't take any credit for these, because I'm not aboriginal, Hokkien or Hakka. I'm mainlander from Taiwan (&#22806;&#30465;&#20154.

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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> same with you. It's okay for you to make racist remarks about Chinese? but not when you are on receiving end?
> 
> 
> 
> it's okay, if you guys think life is cheaper than fish, then you can have your fish back. And, this was not the first incident. people who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. PH will someday become the colony of another country.. and U.S. can't do jack about it... you will see.



I think you forgot what century we are in if you believe in that b.s


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## soaringeagle

Ignore him Wholegrain, one who does not understand what "blood is thicker than water" means is an extremist, I don't even think he is Chinese.

Keep up the good work on your researches.



Wholegrain said:


> Whats this bullshit about pure blood? I already said I don't have any aboriginal blood, and it was the aboriginals wo defeated the American expedition on Taiwan and managed to kill an entire crew of American sailors.
> 
> Rover incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Formosa Expedition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> It was ABORIGINALS who killed and then hacked the heads off French soldiers in Taiwan to put on display at a market.
> 
> The island of Formosa, past and present: History, people, resources, and ... - James Wheeler Davidson - Google Books
> 
> ALL THREE of these rebellions against the Japanese involved aboriginals.
> 
> Beipu Uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Tapani Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Wushe Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I don't take any credit for these, because I'm not aboriginal, Hokkien or Hakka. I'm mainlander from Taiwan (&#22806;&#30465;&#20154.

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## iajj

Wholegrain said:


> Whats this bullshit about pure blood? I already said I don't have any aboriginal blood, and it was the aboriginals wo defeated the American expedition on Taiwan and managed to kill an entire crew of American sailors.
> 
> Rover incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Formosa Expedition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> It was ABORIGINALS who killed and then hacked the heads off French soldiers in Taiwan to put on display at a market.
> 
> The island of Formosa, past and present: History, people, resources, and ... - James Wheeler Davidson - Google Books
> 
> ALL THREE of these rebellions against the Japanese involved aboriginals.
> 
> Beipu Uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Tapani Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Wushe Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I don't take any credit for these, because I'm not aboriginal, Hokkien or Hakka. I'm mainlander from Taiwan (&#22806;&#30465;&#20154.



debazi who have their blood mixed with southasian macaca blood like to sleep on the achievement on dead macacas native to dewan. debazi who are ngasangning - like you, ingrate @Wholegrain - like to sleep on the achievement of glorious chinese forebears.

one thing that unites halfbred debazi and ingrate ngasangning like you is that all living debazi are cowards and liars and lowly creatures who sell out their (half/quarter) chinese blood in order to purchase security from enemies of the chinese race. you lots are all despicable racial traitors who deserve the most horrifying fate at chinese hands.


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## Zero_wing

Again pointless chinese b.s punt shots just pure b.s


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## sdjd2013

iajj said:


> debazi who have their blood mixed with southasian macaca blood like to sleep on the achievement on dead macacas native to dewan. debazi who are ngasangning - like you, ingrate @Wholegrain - like to sleep on the achievement of glorious chinese forebears.
> 
> one thing that unites halfbred debazi and ingrate ngasangning like you is that all living debazi are cowards and liars and lowly creatures who sell out their (half/quarter) chinese blood in order to purchase security from enemies of the chinese race. you lots are all despicable racial traitors who deserve the most horrifying fate at chinese hands.



You gotta serious mental issue. Americans are not the enemy of China. You are. Mao is, Carl Marx is. China = ROC, PROC's forbearer, father of CCP. You are not even qualified as a "pure blood" as the blood of a low-life bandit coarse through your veins. You should go back to the cave of Yunnan and hide there like Mao did when KMT fought off the Japs. Communist = robbers / bandits who robbed from the rich using dumb laborers like you. You are probably a four-eye recluse living in a small apartment and jacks off to a picture of Mao's wife, wearing the same glasses as yours.


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## Minjitta

USAHawk785 said:


> Buddy,
> 
> We already impose our policy to Asia as we speak. We've practically contained the Chinese to her territorial waters, lmfao.
> 
> I mean, come on. Over 4 decades ago we were bombing the hell out of the Viets. Now, they're courting our favor.


Those policy was back in the 70s, 80s, 90s are outdated, China are challenging US policy in Asia as of now. Some US policy are enforced on Asian but not to an extend like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Philippine, Thailand, and Taiwan. US needed to create an more favorable policy to other Asia nations that are not fully on board with US. In some cases US needed to alter her policy in favor to her old allies like Japan, and S. Korea.

Bombing Vietnam did not help US any, China threaten to take over SCS that cause Vietnam policy to work in US favor.


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## soaringeagle

Save your breath brother, he is just a false flagging troll.



sdjd2013 said:


> You gotta serious mental issue. Americans are not the enemy of China. You are. Mao is, Carl Marx is. China = ROC, PROC's forbearer, father of CCP. You are not even qualified as a "pure blood" as the blood of a low-life bandit coarse through your veins. You should go back to the cave of Yunnan and hide there like Mao did when KMT fought off the Japs. Communist = robbers / bandits who robbed from the rich using dumb laborers like you. You are probably a four-eye recluse living in a small apartment and jacks off to a picture of Mao's wife, wearing the same glasses as yours.

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## Wholegrain

USAHawk785 said:


> And China, which was colonized by western powers and divided into multiple spheres of interests, should watch its own rhetoric before that very wish comes true. Sometimes, wishes don't come true to your own liking.
> 
> 
> 
> It won't dare do anything because the Sharks of the USN 7th Fleet roam the waters of Western Pacific. The Taiwanese and the Filipinos are under our influence. Within 4-6 weeks, both Taipei and Manila have already agreed to cease further clashes.
> 
> Taiwan, because she is smart, won't dare cut her own lifeline. The Philippines, as well, know how to listen to her American Daddy.



Remember when spear wielding aboriginals took you down a peg? 

Rover incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Formosa Expedition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The more America stays in Japan, the more resentment it breeds among Japanese right wingers to America. Its amazing how little Americans know about the way anti Americanism works in Japan, and assume that because all right wing Japanese politicians are anti China that they love America- they hate America through their teeth because America's presence makes them look weak and humiliated servants. And I don't meant just resent, they HATE the American presence.

The Japan That Can Say No - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its as if you amazingly assumed all those Japanese militarists who were all spared the death penalty after WW2 just suddenly evaporated or mysteriously became pro America. They didn't, they always hated you and viewed themselves as superior. They want to be the imperialists and dominate other nations and invade them like America is doing now, and put Japanese military bases in other asian countries.

Do you know why Japan has no nuclear weapons? Because America doesn't allow it, it doesn't allow south korea or the Philippines to have them either. In fact, America would have preferred Britian and France not to have their own nukes as well if they could control it. Those Japanese who want to rearm hate, hate, hate westerners dominating them and want to challenge American imperialism with their own imperialism. If Japan gets nukes, it will be a rival to American dominance in the region - Japan would just replace America as the Philippines or Vietnam's imperialist master.

It will be very fortunate if Japan rearms because it would not make strategic a difference to China - right now, China faces American nuclear deterrence, military bases, soldiers and missles in the region - if replaced by Japanese rearment, the Japanese would simply replace the same American nuke deterrent, soldiers, fleets and missles with their own soldiers, fleets and missles. However, it WILL be bad for America - for the reasons I stated above regarding the true feelings of the Japanese militarists towards America.

There is no threat of Japan taking over China today because it is not the same as seventy years ago. Now China has nuclear tipped ICBMs if Japan ever tries to land soldiers on mainland China.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

sdjd2013 said:


> *Are you saying Pinoys should not support the findings of your own government? Do you not agree NBI/ DOJ's recommendations are based on findings of facts?*  Are you too stupid to acknowledge the truth? the only question is how will Aquino reconcile the recommendations with his plead for the country to band together against CHINA. However he treats the recommendations will define his character either as an honest person, or dishonest one with political agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> PLEASE, if you have any more doubts about the ramming or questions about the recommendations of your own government agency, ask your own government or consult a newspaper once in a while to stay current... sigh
> 
> Maybe they don't have newspaper in spain b/c no one reads it since everyone is too busy taking Ciestas after Fiestas!



*The findings of the NBI is very highly doubtful...they wont show the shooting incident video and they wont even divulge the official RULES OF ENGAGEMENT of the Philippine Coast Guard. I would surmise the purpose of their findings is appeasement of Taiwan. Plus the fact that the Taiwanese gov't won't event show to the public their copy of the video.*


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## WuMaoCleverbot

Found this:







*Taiwan's Combined Service Forces 1975 Map recognizing that the border of Taiwan and Philippines is the Bashi Channel.*


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## sdjd2013

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> Found this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Taiwan's Combined Service Forces 1975 Map recognizing that the border of Taiwan and Philippines is the Bashi Channel.*



You guys keep berating Taiwan like it's invisible, and now you want them to recognize a border? FU CK YOU, TAIWAN'S BORDER SHOULD BE SOUTH OF THE CELEBES SEA. Go complain to China, see if they care.

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## Zero_wing

See when you people given facts you play that stupid card you guys are nothing but losers so typical

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## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> See when you people given facts you play that stupid card you guys are nothing but losers so typical



Taiwan is an unrecognized nation. Go to talk to China, instead of whining.



sdjd2013 said:


> You guys keep berating Taiwan like it's invisible, and now you want them to recognize a border? FU CK YOU, TAIWAN'S BORDER SHOULD BE SOUTH OF THE CELEBES SEA. Go complain to China, see if they care.



Leave the trolls alone. They just like to make themselves feel better, even if they are wrong


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## sdjd2013

Zero_wing said:


> See when you people given facts you play that stupid card you guys are nothing but losers so typical



I have no doubt, that there is more to the map that WuMao (nice name) is not telling, b/c that is what Filipinos are good at, mis-direction, mis-representation, and concealment. I just don't have the time or the will to poke holes in your story any more. If you guys can't even accept the findings of your own NBI, the highest investigative body in PH land, what's the use wasting keystrokes on you morons????


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> You gotta serious mental issue. Americans are not the enemy of China. You are. Mao is, Carl Marx is. China = ROC, PROC's forbearer, father of CCP. You are not even qualified as a "pure blood" as the blood of a low-life bandit coarse through your veins. You should go back to the cave of Yunnan and hide there like Mao did when KMT fought off the Japs. Communist = robbers / bandits who robbed from the rich using dumb laborers like you. You are probably a four-eye recluse living in a small apartment and jacks off to a picture of Mao's wife, wearing the same glasses as yours.



LMAO, KMT is born slaves, but don't worry, the day Taiwan got liberated, all anti-communist KMTers will be transfered into the prison camps in Xizang and Qinghai.


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> LMAO, KMT is born slaves, but don't worry, the day Taiwan got liberated, all anti-communist KMTers will be transfered into the prison camps in Xizang and Qinghai.



I doubt it. whether you know it or not, many, many, many citizens of red china have empathy for the democratic ways of Taiwan, mostly in large coastal cities. If you think otherwise, you must be from the central part, like Sichuan, where everyone is in the military; even so, many in the military ranks are sympathizers of KMT, b/c they know how wrong Maoism was, and that is why Deng took the country in the opposite direction. Mao is now a symbol and glue that binds the people, but his deeds can never withstand the scrutiny of historians.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> I doubt it. whether you know it or not, many, many, many citizens of red china have empathy for the democratic ways of Taiwan, mostly in large coastal cities. If you think otherwise, you must be from the central part, like Sichuan, where everyone is in the military; even so, many in the military ranks are sympathizers of KMT, b/c they know how wrong Maoism was, and that is why Deng took the country in the opposite direction. Mao is now a symbol and glue that binds the people, but his deeds can never withstand the scrutiny of historians.



Have you visited the mainstream forum in Mainland China? The KMT supporters have been truly marginalized in the recent years.

In the eyes of the Mainlanders, the KMT has been perceived as the weak and incompetent lapdog of USA, even they are not happy with CPC, but they will still choose CPC over KMT any day.

You dared to reply against your US Master how China is militarily strong, yet you forgot who is the one deserved all the credits of making China strong?

Without CPC built up those foundations for our military industry, no way that China can become that strong even with a booming economy.

You can bash how China during the era of Mao was dirty and backward, but at least we have detonated our own H-bomb and launched own our satellite.

A so-called modern industrialized nation like South Korea couldn't even launch their own satellite that without the technology support from Russia.

Can you see the different here? This is the difference between a great nation with sovereignty and a lapdog of USA.


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## ChineseTiger1986

And you were wrong, i am not from Central China, i am a Shanghainese with the ancestry from southern Jiangsu and northern Zhejiang.

The most pro-KMT province is Guangdong, because it is geographically closer to HK with more influence from the western democrazy, but we do have many Cantonese members here, and very few of them seem to be pro-KMT.

And don't forget the birthplace of CPC was Shanghai!!!


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And you were wrong, i am not from Central China, i am a Shanghainese with the ancestry from southern Jiangsu and northern Zhejiang.
> 
> The most pro-KMT province is Guangdong, because it is geographically closer to HK with more influence from the western democrazy, but we do have many Cantonese members here, and very few of them seem to be pro-KMT.
> 
> And don't forget the birthplace of CPC was Shanghai!!!



I bashed the CCP only in response to that idiot IJii whatever his name was, only to **** him off. Truth hurts. What you said about KMT is true to some extent, but don't forget KMT engaged in a frontal war with Japan while Mao diligently conserved and build his forces in secret, contrary to the agreement he had with KMT. You guys always bashed Japan for atrocities and distorting history, without looking inward and admitting the dark days inflicted by Mao on China. If KMT had won the war, China would have modernized in the 80's, 30 years sooner than CCP, and China would not be perceived as a threat in Asia. 

Don't get puffed up.. i'm just telling like it is.

p.s., you are not gonna find any military uniforms walking around in Shanghai these days, unlike central China. HOw ironic CCP ended in the same place in started. Rightfully so. My mom is from Shanghai, but she hates the communist so much she vowed to never return there. My dad is from Jiansu, he came from a family of educators. My grandfather ran a school in Jiansu, which CCP converted into a communal center in the 60's. All of my grandfather's brothers persecuted and died in jails, and my uncles on father side killed during the cultural revolution. So, don't tell me how glorious CCP is. Preach that to your comrades

Unless you came from a lineage of poor,, stupid laborers, I'm sure you have predecessors who were persecuted by the CCP in the 60's -70's.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> I bashed the CCP only in response to that idiot IJii whatever his name was, only to **** him off. Truth hurts. What you said about KMT is true to some extent, but don't forget KMT engaged in a frontal war with Japan while Mao diligently conserved and build his forces in secret, contrary to the agreement he had with KMT. You guys always bashed Japan for atrocities and distorting history, without looking inward and admitting the dark days inflicted by Mao on China. If KMT had won the war, China would have modernized in the 80's, 30 years sooner than CCP, and China would not be perceived as a threat in Asia.
> 
> Don't get puffed up.. i'm just telling like it is.




First, his rude behavior was not acceptable.

The KMT soldiers who sacrificed their life to defend their motherland deserved more respect, but the KMT leadership is/was incompetent and corrupt as hell.

You can say there is corruption among the CPC leadership, but at least CPC never failed to defend China, that's why the Chinese people support it.

CPC made China military strong to fend off against any possible invasion from foreign nations.

If China has been controlled under KMT, while it would have a weak military strength without nuclear teeth, Xinjiang and Xizang will follow the same fate as Outer Mongolia.

China has already given KMT a chance to prove themselves, but they failed, so we will never accept them again.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> Don't get puffed up.. i'm just telling like it is.
> 
> p.s., you are not gonna find any military uniforms walking around in Shanghai these days, unlike central China. HOw ironic CCP ended in the same place in started. Rightfully so. My mom is from Shanghai, but she hates the communist so much she vowed to never return there. My dad is from Jiansu, he came from a family of educators. My grandfather ran a school in Jiansu, which CCP converted into a communal center in the 60's. All of my grandfather's brothers persecuted and died in jails, and my uncles on father side killed during the cultural revolution. So, don't tell me how glorious CCP is. Preach that to your comrades
> 
> Unless you came from a lineage of poor,, stupid laborers, I'm sure you have predecessors who were persecuted by the CCP in the 60's -70's.



Because they were KMT sourgrape losers since CPC always kicked their a$$.

Even i do agree with that white racist troll USA Hawk, you are their slave, your eunuch President Ma already spoke for himself. "Because US is my daddy, i can't do anything against him."


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> First, his rude behavior was not acceptable.
> 
> The KMT soldiers who sacrificed their life to defend their motherland deserved more respect, but the KMT leadership is/was incompetent and corrupt as hell.
> 
> You can say there is corruption among the CPC leadership, but at least CPC never failed to defend China, that's why the Chinese people support it.
> 
> CPC made China military strong to fend off against any possible invasion from foreign nations.
> 
> If China has been controlled under KMT, while it would have a weak military strength without nuclear teeth, Xinjiang and Xizang will follow the same fate as Outer Mongolia.
> 
> China has already given KMT a chance to prove themselves, but they failed, so we will never accept them again.



KMT leader was corrupt and stupid-- agreed

CPC didn't fail to defend China -- disagree. Like I said Mao never engaged imperial forces of Japan toe to toe.

China controlled by KMT = weak military -- disagree. Taiwan has nuclear capabilities, but can't make nukes at U.S. demand.

You sound pretty young. I am almost 50. I would urge you to look closer to the civil war of China. many KMT turned coat for the reason you stated about KMT leadeshipr. It's not b/c KMT forces were weak, it's b/c its leadership could not garner the support of the soldiers and the people. But, you have to admit Mao abused the power he had and betrayed China.


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because they were KMT sourgrape losers since CPC always kicked their a$$.
> 
> Even i do agree with that white racist troll USA Hawk, you are their slave, your eunuch President Ma already spoke for himself. "Because US is my daddy, i can't do anything against him."



I understand it's a sensitive issue for you, b/c it took my wife a long time to accept the truth. If you look deeper into the issue, it will appear to be a normal course of everyday occurrence in history. Take off the edge and sensitivity. It is not as serious as you have been told.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> KMT leader was corrupt and stupid-- agreed
> 
> CPC didn't fail to defend China -- disagree. Like I said Mao never engaged imperial forces of Japan toe to toe.
> 
> China controlled by KMT = weak military -- disagree. Taiwan has nuclear capabilities, but can't make nukes at U.S. demand.
> 
> You sound pretty young. I am almost 50. I would urge you to look closer to the civil war of China. many KMT turned coat for the reason you stated about KMT leadeshipr. It's not b/c KMT forces were weak, it's b/c its leadership could not garner the support of the soldiers and the people. But, you have to admit Mao abused the power he had and betrayed China.



- I am not 100% supporting CPC on everything, but no party could do a better job for now.

- Mao's CPC was not the central government during that time, so don't expect them to have the capability to engage into a major confrontation against the well-armed Imperial Japanese. But CPC fought against USA during the Korean War, even we have suffered greater casualty, but we have still achieved our military objective.

- Taiwan's nuclear capability is pretty laughable, you will be lucky to produce a nuke like the North Korean dirty bomb. You can't produce a triad nuclear superpower that is built up by DF-31A/JL-2/DF-41.

Yeah, we the Mainlanders born in the 1980s are supporting CPC, we know the bad side of CPC, nevertheless we still choose to support them.

No one is flawless, but CPC has done a greater job than anyone else so far, the only reason we will turn to them when they can no longer protect China's interest.

But so far, we have Xi Jinping the tough Maoist, while you got Ma Yingjeou the eunuch, this is no brainer which guy we will support.

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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> - I am not 100% supporting CPC on everything, but no party could do a better job for now.
> 
> - Mao's CPC was not the central government during that time, so don't expect them to have the capability to engage into a major confrontation against the well-armed Imperial Japanese. But CPC fought against USA during the Korean War, even we have suffered greater casualty, but we have still achieved our military objective.
> 
> - Taiwan's nuclear capability is pretty laughable, you will be lucky to produce a nuke like the North Korean dirty bomb. You can't produce a triad nuclear superpower that is built up by DF-31A/JL-2/DF-41.
> 
> Yeah, we the Mainlanders born in the 1980s are supporting CPC, we know the bad side of CPC, nevertheless we still choose to support them.
> 
> No one is flawless, but CPC has done a greater job than anyone else so far, the only reason we will turn to them when they can no longer protect China's interest.
> 
> But so far, we have Xi Jinping the tough Maoist, while you got Ma Yingjeou the eunuch, this is no brainer which guy we will support.



Thank you, for giving me an insight into the minds of Chinese youth from China.

Nonetheless, I will continue to help people from China who seeks freedom away from the CCP.

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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> Thank you, for giving me an insight into the minds of Chinese youth from China.
> 
> Nonetheless, I will continue to help people from China who seeks freedom away from the CCP.



But remember, most Chinese youths today are Maoists, if they will only betray CPC when the party has gone too right.

We are 100% against corruption, and we know that Mao has committed many mistakes, but some mistakes weren't entirely his fault. Do you expect to have a good economy development when getting nuclear threatened by two superpowers?

Mao betrayed USSR because USSR attempted to make China its own puppet, later we got sanctioned for refusing to bow down.

The Cultural Revolution was initially not a mistake, but it later became a mistake because of getting hijacked by the far left radicals.

You can say the Cultural Revolution was the product of Mao's power hunger, but at least Mao didn't let his son to take his throne. How about your leader Chiang Kai-shek? Why his son became his successor?

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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> But remember, most Chinese youths today are Maoists, if they will only betray CPC when the party has gone too right.
> 
> We are 100% against corruption, and we know that Mao has committed many mistakes, but some mistakes weren't entirely his fault. Do you expect to have a good economy development when getting nuclear threatened by two superpowers?
> 
> Mao betrayed USSR because USSR attempted to make China its own puppet, later we got sanctioned for refusing to bow down.
> 
> The Cultural Revolution was initially not a mistake, but it later became a mistake because of getting hijacked by the far left radicals.
> 
> You can say the Cultural Revolution was the product of Mao's power hunger, but at least Mao didn't let his son to take his throne, how about your leader Chiang Kai-shek, why his son became his successor.



okay, last note before I head to work. 

Comparing Mao to Chiang Kai-shek is like comparing Jeffrey Domer to Charles Mason. Both killers and murderers. One difference: Mao wanted closed-door policies, whereas Chiang wanted westernization. That is why Taiwan became industrialized earlier than China. 

You are right that Taiwan should have its own military program and not rely on the U.S., but I blame that on leaders that came after Chiang for being submissive to U.S. The fact is, CCP is the only ruling party, and if competition is the foundation of progress, then CCP should allow other political parties/ views to exist in China. You are the product of the word "hegemony" that you use so often. Again, I would urge reflexive thinking before pointing fingers. "He who lives in a glass house should not cast first stone." True, China has become a super power, that doesn't mean China can overcome all adversities by force. a good politician must be cunning, and use military as a last resort. 

You keep knocking the U.S. as the perpetrator of all conflicts, but action speaks louder than words in the eyes of rest of the world. U.S. pleads for peace, even though it's secretly planting seeds everywhere in ASia. But, U.S. is doing a great job on projecting the image of the "peace maker" and trust me, U.S. is not afraid to engage China in conventional warfare. It has way more advanced technologies than China. Gotta go.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> okay, last note before I head to work.
> 
> Comparing Mao to Chiang Kai-shek is like comparing Jeffrey Domer to Charles Mason. Both killers and murderers. One difference: Mao wanted closed-door policies, whereas Chiang wanted westernization. That is why Taiwan became industrialized earlier than China.
> 
> You are right that Taiwan should have its own military program and not rely on the U.S., but I blame that on leaders that came after Chiang for being submissive to U.S. The fact is, CCP is the only ruling party, and if competition is the foundation of progress, then CCP should allow other political parties/ views to exist in China. You are the product of the word "hegemony" that you use so often. Again, I would urge reflexive thinking before pointing fingers. "He who lives in a glass house should not cast first stone." True, China has become a super power, that doesn't mean China can overcome all adversities by force. a good politician must be cunning, and use military as a last resort.
> 
> You keep knocking the U.S. as the perpetrator of all conflicts, but action speaks louder than words in the eyes of rest of the world. U.S. pleads for peace, even though it's secretly planting seeds everywhere in ASia. But, U.S. is doing a great job on projecting the image of the "peace maker" and trust me, U.S. is not afraid to engage China in conventional warfare. It has way more advanced technologies than China. Gotta go.



- Taiwan's industrialization is not comparable to China's. The China of 1970 can independently launch its own rocket with a satellite of 150kg payload, while the South Korea of 2013 can only achieve this with the help from Russia. So i don't expect Taiwan to be any different. *China is a continental nation with all resources to support its military development, we are on the same league with USA and Russia on this adavantage, while Taiwan and South Korea are not.*

- We always prefer negociation over war, and our military hawks are just patriots, not the warmongers like the US hawks who make bag of money by invading other nations.

- If USA could leave East Asia alone, then they would not be our enemy anymore, but i don't think this would be possible. So blame this on USA, not China.

- But remember, China isn't afraid of engaging in a war against USA in its own backyard. The USA of 1990s has definitely bullied the weaker China many times, but have you seen the same scenario repeating today? Nope.

- Do you truly believe that US could military save Taiwan from PLA? Taiwan is now at the mercy of CPC, not because PLA is militarily incapable of taking you down. We still want to give our brother a chance to live and avoid the civil war.

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## Wholegrain

sdjd2013 said:


> okay, last note before I head to work.
> 
> Comparing Mao to Chiang Kai-shek is like comparing Jeffrey Domer to Charles Mason. Both killers and murderers. One difference: Mao wanted closed-door policies, whereas Chiang wanted westernization. That is why Taiwan became industrialized earlier than China.
> 
> You are right that Taiwan should have its own military program and not rely on the U.S., but I blame that on leaders that came after Chiang for being submissive to U.S. The fact is, CCP is the only ruling party, and if competition is the foundation of progress, then CCP should allow other political parties/ views to exist in China. You are the product of the word "hegemony" that you use so often. Again, I would urge reflexive thinking before pointing fingers. "He who lives in a glass house should not cast first stone." True, China has become a super power, that doesn't mean China can overcome all adversities by force. a good politician must be cunning, and use military as a last resort.
> 
> You keep knocking the U.S. as the perpetrator of all conflicts, but action speaks louder than words in the eyes of rest of the world. U.S. pleads for peace, even though it's secretly planting seeds everywhere in ASia. But, U.S. is doing a great job on projecting the image of the "peace maker" and trust me, U.S. is not afraid to engage China in conventional warfare. It has way more advanced technologies than China. Gotta go.



Chiang did not want westernization. Westernization = liberal society, loose morals. Thats what happened in Taiwan AFTER Chiang died and his son changed everything. 

Chiang threw Sun Liren in jail and accused him of conspiracy with the CIA and plotting to take over Taiwan.

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## Zero_wing

Wow a lot bs post today


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## ChineseTiger1986

Wholegrain said:


> Chiang did not want westernization. Westernization = liberal society, loose morals. Thats what happened in Taiwan AFTER Chiang died and his son changed everything.
> 
> Chiang threw Sun Liren in jail and accused him of conspiracy with the CIA and plotting to take over Taiwan.



Too bad Chiang is not Mao, he is not capable to keep that country together, otherwise he would not have lost the civil war.

Since the day that Chiang has installed his government in Nanjing, yet he cannot stop the decentralization of China by the warlords, the fate of KMT was already sealed, they were destined to be overthrown by the much stronger CPC.

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## Zero_wing

wow yo losers make your own thread


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## ChinaToday

Zero_wing said:


> Wow a lot bs post today



your opinions not really matter, no one really think much of banana republic philipine , your economy , military and education are not really on par with even Thailand if you know what I mean

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## sdjd2013

Wholegrain said:


> Chiang did not want westernization. Westernization = liberal society, loose morals. Thats what happened in Taiwan AFTER Chiang died and his son changed everything.
> 
> Chiang threw Sun Liren in jail and accused him of conspiracy with the CIA and plotting to take over Taiwan.



you are half right. CIA wanted to overthrow chiang, and sun liren was trained by CIA (not only acquired asset). I think he was whacked by Chiang. But, still Chiang propagated western values like public education, solar calendar, science, etc., but as you implied he was not about to give up his powers. 

Just one thing though, China made nukes when people were dying of hunger in the 70's, thus the Great Leap. I give him credit for providing security to the country, but he also protected his powers at the expense of the lives of a great number of educators. Including my grandfather and granduncles, who were minding their own business and bothered no one. Their only crime was that they were landowners.

No, I don't think Taiwan can defend itself if China invaded, but China would face grave consequences if it did, like being sanctioned and shunned by the world, plus face internal conflicts. If this were not true, China would have taken Taiwan by force a long time ago, given everyone acknowledges the mainland as the only China.

Lastly, I think China was first to enter into oil drilling contracts with Irag after the war, before U.S. did. So, I don't agree that U.S. went to war for economic reasons. Congress is criticizing Obama for moving too late on Irag after China. if anything, U.S. overspent on Iraq to rebuild it, only to let China get first bite of the apple. Good for China.


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## soaringeagle

No need to argue.
CCP miss their opportunity to retake Taiwan in the early 70s,
KMT miss their opportunity to gain independence in the early 80s.
Things will stay the way it is, at least for another decade.

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## Snomannen

ChinaToday said:


> your opinions not really matter, no one really think much of banana republic philipine , your economy , military and education are not really on par with even Thailand if you know what I mean



Just ignore the trolls.
They are nothing but broken radios, repeatedly making nonsense, noises and try to get attention.

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## WuMaoCleverbot

sdjd2013 said:


> *I have no doubt, that there is more to the map that WuMao (nice name) is not telling*, b/c that is what Filipinos are good at, mis-direction, mis-representation, and concealment. I just don't have the time or the will to poke holes in your story any more. If you guys can't even accept the findings of your own NBI, the highest investigative body in PH land, what's the use wasting keystrokes on you morons????



*Before it was discovered in 1968 that oil reserves might be found under the sea near the Senkakus islands...the islands are undisputed. Taiwanese maps doesn't show those Islands as Taiwanese territory.*








*After the discovery of possible oil deposits...the Taiwanese begin to include the Senkakus in their maps.*

http://michaelturton.blogspot.com/2012/09/paper-on-parade-diaoyutai-islands-on.html

*"This research report is the first to present irrefutable evidence of the ROC government&#8217;s change of position from excluding to including the Diaoyutai Islands in the ROC&#8217;s territory in the early 1970s. The evidence lies in cartographic information produced by the ROC government before the 1970s, which had always tacitly assumed that the Diaoyutai Islands were part of the Ryukyu Islands, not under the ROC&#8217;s sovereign control. Not until 1971 and 1972 did the Taiwanese government modify official maps&#8212;such as national atlases, military topographic maps, and maps in national textbooks&#8212;labelling the Diaoyutai Islands as part of Taiwan or using the &#8220;Taiwanese name&#8221; (i.e., Diaoyutai Islands, Tiaoyutai Islets) to identify these islands."*



*Before the shooting incident...accepted boundary is midway of Orchid Island (Taiwan) and Mavudis Island.*






*Taiwan's Combined Service Forces 1975 Map recognizing that the border of Taiwan and Philippines is the Bashi Channel. See the dotted and dash line.*



*After the shooting incident...unilaterally and illegally appropriating for itself the Philippine EEZ around the Batanes Islands through the provisional boundary.*


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## Zero_wing

Hahahaha the real trolls just called me a troll Jesus you losers are running low on your normal b.s its not my problem chekwa losers


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## sdjd2013

pac pac pac lac lac lac dac dac dac I cannot tolerate the perpetual ignorance and nonsense displayed by your endless flippant rants you should see a shrink try dr phil he is very good with incoherent illiterates like you don't you have nothing better to do in life than nagging ppl to death like a bi tch or a bi sexual I don't know and I don't care just get outta my hair you inconsiderate idiot who speaks Spanglish like a dumb wetback from east los always begging for a piecemeal I wish one day your American daddy will accidentally drop a bomb on your head and say sorry and see how you feel about killing you stupid dumb ****


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## sdjd2013

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Before it was discovered in 1968 that oil reserves might be found under the sea near the Senkakus islands...the islands are undisputed. Taiwanese maps doesn't show those Islands as Taiwanese territory.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *After the discovery of possible oil deposits...the Taiwanese begin to include the Senkakus in their maps.*
> 
> The View from Taiwan: Paper on Parade: The Diaoyutai Islands on Taiwan&#8217;s Official Maps: Pre- and Post-1971
> 
> *"This research report is the first to present irrefutable evidence of the ROC government&#8217;s change of position from excluding to including the Diaoyutai Islands in the ROC&#8217;s territory in the early 1970s. The evidence lies in cartographic information produced by the ROC government before the 1970s, which had always tacitly assumed that the Diaoyutai Islands were part of the Ryukyu Islands, not under the ROC&#8217;s sovereign control. Not until 1971 and 1972 did the Taiwanese government modify official maps&#8212;such as national atlases, military topographic maps, and maps in national textbooks&#8212;labelling the Diaoyutai Islands as part of Taiwan or using the &#8220;Taiwanese name&#8221; (i.e., Diaoyutai Islands, Tiaoyutai Islets) to identify these islands."*
> 
> 
> 
> *Before the shooting incident...accepted boundary is midway of Orchid Island (Taiwan) and Mavudis Island.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Taiwan's Combined Service Forces 1975 Map recognizing that the border of Taiwan and Philippines is the Bashi Channel. See the dotted and dash line.*
> 
> 
> 
> *After the shooting incident...unilaterally and illegally appropriating for itself the Philippine EEZ around the Batanes Islands through the provisional boundary.*



I didn't want to respond, but I can't leave without pointing out the blatant flaws in all of your arguments. you left out about 90% of the whole history of Senkaku/ diaoyudao, which I don't feel like educating you on. Don't act like you are informed, it does not become you, not even close.


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## Zero_wing

sdjd2013 said:


> I didn't want to respond, but I can't leave without pointing out the blatant flaws in all of your arguments. you left out about 90% of the whole history of Senkaku/ diaoyudao, which I don't feel like educating you on. Don't act like you are informed, it does not become you, not even close.



Oh please you people just can't accept your own failure just admitted already you people are wrong taiwan EZZ can not be bigger because again the Philippines is a Archipelago its in ULCOS too so your the one who should learn something


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## Wholegrain

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Too bad Chiang is not Mao, he is not capable to keep that country together, otherwise he would not have lost the civil war.
> 
> Since the day that Chiang has installed his government in Nanjing, yet he cannot stop the decentralization of China by the warlords, the fate of KMT was already sealed, they were destined to be overthrown by the much stronger CPC.



Chiang used proxies and covert actions to spread the authority of the central government, often getting warlords to fight against the Soviets and Japanese. By his actions he managed to get thousands of White Russian (invaders) and Soviet troops killed in Xinjiang. He assigned warlords to kill each other and foreign enemies off, when Chiang awarded titles to Ma Zhongying and Ma Hushan and played them off against the pro Soviet warlords Jin Shuren and Sheng Shicai, their actions in Xinjiang resulted in thousands of Russian deaths and the crushing of the First East Turkestan Republic.

Chiang supported Pandatsang Rapga's Tibet Improvement Party and his Tibetan Khamba army with covert funds and supplies against the Dalai Lama. He even was going to sign a treaty with the Hunza Mir and reinstate the relationship between Hunza and China like it was during the Qing dynasty.

While the war against Japan was going on, Chiang used the Ma warlords against Sheng Shicai and his Soviet backers. He managed to take the Gansu corridor for the central government and infiltrate entire divisions from the central government's army and Ma Bufang's army into Xinjiang and force Sheng Shicai to remove all Soviet soldiers from the province. That is how Xinjiang came under central government rule again in 1943. He also convinced Ma Bufang to send entire divisions to fight against the Japanese and the Soviet and Uyghur armies in the Ili Rebellion. Ma Bufang also fought against the British backed Tibetan army. 

The other Ma warlord like Ma Hongbin was sent to Suiyuan to fight the Japanese. The Beitashan incident was entirely fought by the Ma warlord army against the Mongolians and Soviets.

Chiang backed the VNQDD against French Indochina and after World War 2 he forced France to give up all its extraterriotiral rights and concessions in China in exchange for withdrawing from north Indochina. And he didn't do it with the central government's army. He ordered the warlord Long Yun from Yunnan to send his army into Indochina, and after they entered indochina Chiang unseated Long from power and the central government took conrol of the province. At the same time he managed to expel France from China.

Chiang liked using proxies and strategies to double cross his enemies and play warlords off against foreigners. He didn't want to waste his own soldiers fighting the warlords when he could get them to fight against foreign powers.

If there was no CCP insurgency, Chiang could have sent the entire central government's army and the Ma warlords army and drive the Soviet Union out from Xinjiang and Mongolia and retake Tibet with Pandatsang Rapga. If promised the entire Mongolia as their sphere of influence, the Ma warlords would not hesitate to fight, better them than the Soviets in charge there.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sdjd2013

Wholegrain said:


> Chiang used proxies and covert actions to spread the authority of the central government, often getting warlords to fight against the Soviets and Japanese. By his actions he managed to get thousands of White Russian (invaders) and Soviet troops killed in Xinjiang. He assigned warlords to kill each other and foreign enemies off, when Chiang awarded titles to Ma Zhongying and Ma Hushan and played them off against the pro Soviet warlords Jin Shuren and Sheng Shicai, their actions in Xinjiang resulted in thousands of Russian deaths and the crushing of the First East Turkestan Republic.
> 
> Chiang supported Pandatsang Rapga's Tibet Improvement Party and his Tibetan Khamba army with covert funds and supplies against the Dalai Lama. He even was going to sign a treaty with the Hunza Mir and reinstate the relationship between Hunza and China like it was during the Qing dynasty
> 
> While the war against Japan was going on, Chiang used the Ma warlords against Sheng Shicai and his Soviet backers. He managed to take the Gansu corridor for the central government and infiltrate entire divisions from the central government's army and Ma Bufang's army into Xinjiang and force Sheng Shicai to remove all Soviet soldiers from the province. That is how Xinjiang came under central government rule again in 1943. He also convinced Ma Bufang to send entire divisions to fight against the Japanese and the Soviet and Uyghur armies in the Ili Rebellion. Ma Bufang also fought against the British backed Tibetan army.
> 
> The other Ma warlord like Ma Hongbin was sent to Suiyuan to fight the Japanese. The Beitashan incident was entirely fought by the Ma warlord army against the Mongolians and Soviets.
> 
> Chiang backed the VNQDD against French Indochina and after World War 2 he forced France to give up all its extraterriotiral rights and concessions in China in exchange for withdrawing from north Indochina. And he didn't do it with the central government's army. He ordered the warlord Long Yun from Yunnan to send his army into Indochina, and after they entered indochina Chiang unseated Long from power and the central government took conrol of the province. At the same time he managed to expel France from China.
> 
> Chiang liked using proxies and strategies to double cross his enemies and play warlords off against foreigners. He didn't want to waste his own soldiers fighting the warlords when he could get them to fight against foreign powers.
> 
> If there was no CCP insurgency, Chiang could have sent the entire central government's army and the Ma warlords army and drive the Soviet Union out from Xinjiang and Mongolia and retake Tibet with Pandatsang Rapga. If promised the entire Mongolia as their sphere of influence, the Ma warlords would not hesitate to fight, better them than the Soviets in charge there.



Indeed! very interesting! you brought live back to this thread. But, chiang still lost the big one, when he did poured his soldiers into the real fight , they all defected to CCP thinking they can become heros and warlords; or, they thought they defected for a better future.. bet they didn't see the cultural revolution coming..

Gotta give Mao credit for being smarter than Chiang, covertly, maybe chiang got scared by the Jian Nan Incident


----------



## sdjd2013

History of chiang and post WW2 china.. keep in mind this is news by mainlanders...

Chiang Kai-shek's Diary Discloses Anti-Mao Secrets - YouTube


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## ChineseTiger1986

Wholegrain said:


> Chiang used proxies and covert actions to spread the authority of the central government, often getting warlords to fight against the Soviets and Japanese. By his actions he managed to get thousands of White Russian (invaders) and Soviet troops killed in Xinjiang. He assigned warlords to kill each other and foreign enemies off, when Chiang awarded titles to Ma Zhongying and Ma Hushan and played them off against the pro Soviet warlords Jin Shuren and Sheng Shicai, their actions in Xinjiang resulted in thousands of Russian deaths and the crushing of the First East Turkestan Republic.
> 
> Chiang supported Pandatsang Rapga's Tibet Improvement Party and his Tibetan Khamba army with covert funds and supplies against the Dalai Lama. He even was going to sign a treaty with the Hunza Mir and reinstate the relationship between Hunza and China like it was during the Qing dynasty.
> 
> While the war against Japan was going on, Chiang used the Ma warlords against Sheng Shicai and his Soviet backers. He managed to take the Gansu corridor for the central government and infiltrate entire divisions from the central government's army and Ma Bufang's army into Xinjiang and force Sheng Shicai to remove all Soviet soldiers from the province. That is how Xinjiang came under central government rule again in 1943. He also convinced Ma Bufang to send entire divisions to fight against the Japanese and the Soviet and Uyghur armies in the Ili Rebellion. Ma Bufang also fought against the British backed Tibetan army.
> 
> The other Ma warlord like Ma Hongbin was sent to Suiyuan to fight the Japanese. The Beitashan incident was entirely fought by the Ma warlord army against the Mongolians and Soviets.
> 
> Chiang backed the VNQDD against French Indochina and after World War 2 he forced France to give up all its extraterriotiral rights and concessions in China in exchange for withdrawing from north Indochina. And he didn't do it with the central government's army. He ordered the warlord Long Yun from Yunnan to send his army into Indochina, and after they entered indochina Chiang unseated Long from power and the central government took conrol of the province. At the same time he managed to expel France from China.
> 
> Chiang liked using proxies and strategies to double cross his enemies and play warlords off against foreigners. He didn't want to waste his own soldiers fighting the warlords when he could get them to fight against foreign powers.
> 
> If there was no CCP insurgency, Chiang could have sent the entire central government's army and the Ma warlords army and drive the Soviet Union out from Xinjiang and Mongolia and retake Tibet with Pandatsang Rapga. If promised the entire Mongolia as their sphere of influence, the Ma warlords would not hesitate to fight, better them than the Soviets in charge there.



Too bad, the betrayal of Outer Mongolia will be stayed forever with his incompetence.

PRC was founded after the independence of Outer Mongolia, while Mao managed to hold Xinjiang and Xizang together.

So there is no excuse for KMT and their supporters. Why you guys can't be like Martin? He is a Taiwanese member with a KMT family background, while he got 100% respect from us the Mainland members here.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> History of chiang and post WW2 china.. keep in mind this is news by mainlanders...
> 
> Chiang Kai-shek's Diary Discloses Anti-Mao Secrets - YouTube



NTDTV, a nice Falungong source.


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Too bad, the betrayal of Outer Mongolia will be stayed forever with his incompetence.
> 
> PRC was founded after the independence of Outer Mongolia, while Mao managed to hold Xinjiang and Xizang together.
> 
> So there is no excuse for KMT and their supporters. Why you guys can't be like Martin? He is a Taiwanese member with a KMT family background, while he got 100% respect from us the Mainland members here.



What do you mean be like martin? We are individuals with unique thinking and beliefs. I am not speaking for KMT, but I am critical of Mao's approach to "freedom" and "class struggle." He was more ruthless than the Japs that raped Nanking. But, no one from China will ever acknowledge that, b/c CCP won't allow it. Why can't you be more critical of the stuff CCP feeds the people? Do you really think Tiananmen were a bunch of hooligans with no aim in life?

p.s., the only excuse CCP gave for exterminating the Falungon was based on isolated incidents of suicides. For the most part, Falungon philosophy preaches peace and health. What's wrong with that? The only reason that got cracked down was that their membership exceeded that of CCP.

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## Zero_wing

Guys make your own thread we don't care about your history here make your thread


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## Wholegrain

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Too bad, the betrayal of Outer Mongolia will be stayed forever with his incompetence.
> 
> PRC was founded after the independence of Outer Mongolia, while Mao managed to hold Xinjiang and Xizang together.
> 
> So there is no excuse for KMT and their supporters. Why you guys can't be like Martin? He is a Taiwanese member with a KMT family background, while he got 100% respect from us the Mainland members here.



KMT didn't loose outer Mongolia. Outer mongolia became independent before the KMT and Chiang took power. Zhang Zuolin was assigned the task of reconquering Outer Mongolia from Baron Roman von Ungern Sternberg but he refused to obey the Beiyang governments orders and then the Soviets moved in. The Soviets then stationed tons of soldiers in Xinjiang. Chiang and Ma Bufang sent soldiers to fight the Mongols, look up Beitashan Incident.

Chiang managed to retake Xinjiang from the Soviet backed warlord Sheng Shicai and forced the Soviets out I explained that already.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> What do you mean be like martin? We are individuals with unique thinking and beliefs. I am not speaking for KMT, but I am critical of Mao's approach to "freedom" and "class struggle." He was more ruthless than the Japs that raped Nanking. But, no one from China will ever acknowledge that, b/c CCP won't allow it. Why can't you be more critical of the stuff CCP feeds the people? Do you really think Tiananmen were a bunch of hooligans with no aim in life?
> 
> p.s., the only excuse CCP gave for exterminating the Falungon was based on isolated incidents of suicides. For the most part, Falungon philosophy preaches peace and health. What's wrong with that? The only reason that got cracked down was that their membership exceeded that of CCP.



Yeah, Mao was more ruthless than the Imperial Japanese, typical KMT losers' logic.



Wholegrain said:


> KMT didn't loose outer Mongolia. Outer mongolia became independent before the KMT and Chiang took power. Zhang Zuolin was assigned the task of reconquering Outer Mongolia from Baron Roman von Ungern Sternberg but he refused to obey the Beiyang governments orders and then the Soviets moved in. The Soviets then stationed tons of soldiers in Xinjiang. Chiang and Ma Bufang sent soldiers to fight the Mongols, look up Beitashan Incident.
> 
> Chiang managed to retake Xinjiang from the Soviet backed warlord Sheng Shicai and forced the Soviets out I explained that already.



It doesn't matter, he and his cronies have first signed the treaty with USSR and admitted the sovereignty of Outer Mongolia, they have screwed up everything!!!

If they didn't do that, Mao would have took Outer Mongolia from Stalin just like he took the Dongbei provinces back from USSR which was at the control of the Soviets during that time.


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## Wholegrain

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, Mao was more ruthless than the Imperial Japanese, typical KMT losers' logic.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter, he and his cronies have first signed the treaty with USSR and admitted the sovereignty of Outer Mongolia, they have screwed up everything!!!
> 
> If they didn't do that, Mao would have took Outer Mongolia from Stalin just like he took the Dongbei provinces back from USSR which was at the control of the Soviets during that time.



Outer Mongolia had a fully functioning government set up and was majority Mongol with hundreds of thousands of Red Army soldiers stationed there. Manchuria was majority Han who outnumbered the Red Army by millions and the puppet pro Japanese government would hardly work for the Soviet Union.


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, Mao was more ruthless than the Imperial Japanese, typical KMT losers' logic.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter, he and his cronies have first signed the treaty with USSR and admitted the sovereignty of Outer Mongolia, they have screwed up everything!!!
> 
> If they didn't do that, Mao would have took Outer Mongolia from Stalin just like he took the Dongbei provinces back from USSR which was at the control of the Soviets during that time.



http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.2.GIF

All you gotta do is muster up the courage to type in "cultural revolution" in Google, and you will find the truth about Mao. It is not my logic (actually logic is the universal truth, and therefore should not be the object of a possessive pronoun), it is simply truth recorded in history. Mao killed seven times as many Chinese as the japs did. Despite the victories he has scored, which was not possible without the defection of KMT troops, he is not god as portrayed by CCP, your government. You suffer from what I call the "Bubble" syndrome. Even though you are an expatriate you are afraid to cross the invisible boundaries the CCP has indelibly etched into your psyche, which they are excellent at doing, just like Chiang was before Taiwan truly became democratic. Thus, you live in a bubble that you carry wherever you went, unwittingly blocking out new ideas that could violate the tenets burned into your soul growing up in red china. I would urge you to lose the bubble while you are young, before it is too late.

I noticed the mainlanders like to talk tough, as though you embrace violence, but I bet most of you have never seen violence in your lives. I spent half of my life in Montebello (East Los Angeles), where gangs kill for no reason, and I have lost friends and relatives to senseless violence, and I truly detest it, and I can confidently say those who have experienced violence will not embrace the values of a killer like Mao, unless you are truly evil.

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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.2.GIF
> 
> All you gotta do is muster up the courage to type in "cultural revolution" in Google, and you will find the truth about Mao. It is not my logic (actually logic is the universal truth, and therefore should not be the object of a possessive pronoun), it is simply truth recorded in history. Mao killed seven times as many Chinese as the japs did. Despite the victories he has scored, which was not possible without the defection of KMT troops, he is not god as portrayed by CCP, your government. You suffer from what I call the "Bubble" syndrome. Even though you are an expatriate you are afraid to cross the invisible boundaries the CCP has indelibly etched into your psyche, which they are excellent at doing, just like Chiang was before Taiwan truly became democratic. Thus, you live in a bubble that you carry wherever you went, unwittingly blocking out new ideas that could violate the tenets burned into your soul growing up in red china. I would urge you to lose the bubble while you are young, before it is too late.
> 
> I noticed the mainlanders like to talk tough, as though you embrace violence, but I bet most of you have never seen violence in your lives. I spent half of my life in Montebello (East Los Angeles), where gangs kill for no reason, and I have lost friends and relatives to senseless violence, and I truly detest it, and I can confidently say those who have experienced violence will not embrace the values of a killer like Mao, unless you are truly evil.



Mao was no god, and he made many mistakes, and he is still 100 times better than you KMT losers.

Labelled CPC as the "Yellow Russians", then let's see who is the true Yellow Russians.
















Did Mao's son marry a Russian woman and bastardize their bloodline? 

No wonder these KMT mongrels all died at early age.


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Mao was no god, and he made many mistakes, and he is still 100 times better than you KMT losers.
> 
> Labelled CPC as the "Yellow Russians", then let's see who is the true Yellow Russians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did Mao's son marry a Russian woman and bastardize their bloodline?
> 
> No wonder these KMT mongrels all died at early age.



I don't understand your point, what does this have to do with anything? KMT/ Russia/ U.S./ UK were allies during WW2. Chiang son's life was saved by his wife when he tried to escape Russia when China's civil war broke out. There is nothing wrong with any of this, except you were conditioned to think the way you think. You sound intelligent to some extent, except your views are distorted. Lose the bubble, or you will not realize your true potential.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> I don't understand your point, what does this have to do with anything? KMT/ Russia/ U.S./ UK were allies during WW2. Chiang son's life was saved by his wife when he tried to escape Russia when China's civil war broke out. There is nothing wrong with any of this, except you were conditioned to think the way you think. You sound intelligent to some extent, except your views are distorted. Lose the bubble, or you will not realize your true potential.



Yeah, then selling Outer Mongolia to USSR was also about to save China, thank you for confirming the fact that KMT was the one who has released Outer Mongolia from China!!!

Mao did not bow down to USSR, CPC has defeated KMT with its own effort, it never got the help from USSR. So next time stop crying your lost opportunity to CPC due of the unfair fight.


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## nalan

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## nalan

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## ChineseTiger1986

nalan said:


> &#20320;&#19981;&#33021;&#21542;&#35748;&#27665;&#22269;&#30340;&#27491;&#32479;&#65292;&#36825;&#21422;&#23436;&#20840;&#26159;&#25343;&#36825;&#20010;&#21387;&#30528;&#20320;&#12290;&#21035;&#20154;&#22312;&#28779;&#25340;&#27809;&#22269;&#20891;&#20160;&#20040;&#20107;&#20154;&#23478;&#20063;&#24635;&#20250;&#25214;&#21040;&#37027;&#20040;&#19968;&#28857;&#20851;&#31995;&#30340;&#65292;&#20154; &#23478;&#36824;&#35828;&#20102;&#36973;&#25387;&#37117;&#26159;&#25163;&#22836;&#21147;&#37327;&#19981;&#22815;&#30340;&#38169;&#20102;&#22043;&#65292;&#20320;&#22312;&#38519;&#36827;&#36825;&#21422;&#29609;&#24324;&#21382;&#21490;&#20107;&#20214;&#36991;&#37325;&#23601;&#36731;&#30340;&#38519;&#20117;&#20013;&#20102;&#12290;&#20320;&#21482;&#35201;&#21578;&#35785;&#20182;&#19968;&#21477;&#35805; &#23601;&#34892;&#20102;&#65292;&#22269;&#27665;&#20826;&#36755;&#20102;&#26159;&#22269;&#23478;&#20154;&#27665;&#30340;&#38169;&#65292;&#20849;&#21290;&#19981;&#24471;&#22909;&#27515;



Beiyang govt was the true successor of the Qing Dynasty, while KMT was just formed by a bunch of mafia and power usurpers.

BTW, the Falungong lapdog has no right to talk about the democracy, since even your American daddy doesn't have the true democracy!!!


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## Wholegrain

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, then selling Outer Mongolia to USSR was also about to save China, thank you for confirming the fact that KMT was the one who has released Outer Mongolia from China!!!
> 
> Mao did not bow down to USSR, CPC has defeated KMT with its own effort, it never got the help from USSR. So next time stop crying your lost opportunity to CPC due of the unfair fight.



Outer Mongolia's entire population was outnumbered by the total number of Soviet Red Army soldiers in the Far East, while Manchuria had tens of millions of Han people. Stalin released Manchuria because (a) if annexed to the Soviet Union, Chinese would demographically take over the Russian far east, (b) he would face a massive insurgency in a puppet state with tens of millions of hostile people. 

The KMT was fighting the Soviet Union during the Ili Rebellion and fighting the civil war at the same time. Because of the CPC tying up millions of troops, only 100,000 soldiers, including Ma Bufang's army were in Xinjiang fighting the Soviet Army. The ceasefire for the end of the Ili Rebellion and the recognition of outer Mongolia were both tied together and implemented in 1946. Any futher fighting and the Red Army could have invaded the entire Xinjiang and take Tibet as well.

The KMT then fought the Mongolians and Soviets in the Beitashan incident over a disputed border. Only 700 soldiers, all of them Hui or Salar from Ma Bufang's army were facing off against the Mongols and Soviet air force with no artillery, anti aircraft weapons or tanks.

You keep dodging the fact that the CPC tied up millions of soldiers while China was directly fighting against the Soviet and Mongolian armed forces, there is no excuse that the KMT didn't get rid of "the evil warlords", because if Ma Bufang took over outer Mongolia he still recognizes the authority of the government of China unlike the Soviets.

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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Beiyang govt was the true successor of the Qing Dynasty, while KMT was just formed by a bunch of mafia and power usurpers.
> 
> BTW, the Falungong lapdog has no right to talk about the democracy, since even your American daddy doesn't have the true democracy!!!



you mean you rather wear a cue pony tail than follow the civilized Hans republic founded by Sun Yatsen? Boy, you sound like a cornered dog ready to jump the wall. Sun Yatsun got help from Russia b/c no European wanted to help him without something in return. The only thing Russia wanted from Sun was to recognize the CCP as a legitimate party, which Sun agreed, and thus Mao was also a protégé of Sun, as Chiang was, but anyone who knows anything about history also knows that Carl Marx was banished by Europe except France, b/c France was founded on revolution through violence, as was the philosophy of Marxism -- break your chains and overthrow your master by violence. that was the motto of communism. it was based on violence, and Mao appealed to the masses who were the oppressed and disenfranchised in China, and promised everyone riches and equality if they would follow him to turn the entire system of civilization upside down, which Chiang could not accept, and therefore betrayed the CCP in Shanghai, which resulted in a massacre of over 100,000 leftist protestors, which was pretty cruel, but Chiang got what was coming to him, as we all know. So, no Soviet, no CCP, what are you talking about son?

p.s., who cares about outer Mongolia. it's all desert now anyways.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> you mean you rather wear a cue pony tail than follow the civilized Hans republic founded by Sun Yatsen? Boy, you sound like a cornered dog ready to jump the wall. Sun Yatsun got help from Russia b/c no European wanted to help him without something in return. The only thing Russia wanted from Sun was to recognize the CCP as a legitimate party, which Sun agreed, and thus Mao was also a protégé of Sun, as Chiang was, but anyone who knows anything about history also knows that Carl Marx was banished by Europe except France, b/c France was founded on revolution through violence, as was the philosophy of Marxism -- break your chains and overthrow your master by violence. that was the motto of communism. it was based on violence, and Mao appealed to the masses who were the oppressed and disenfranchised in China, and promised everyone riches and equality if they would follow him to turn the entire system of civilization upside down, which Chiang could not accept, and therefore betrayed the CCP in Shanghai, which resulted in a massacre of over 100,000 leftist protestors, which was pretty cruel, but Chiang got what was coming to him, as we all know. So, no Soviet, no CCP, what are you talking about son?



KMT is not better than Qing Dynasty, except without the pigtail.

Heck, PRC is 100 times better than your stupid ROC, with a illiteracy of over 80%, who wanna live in that sh!thole?

Your beloved ROC can make an illiteracy contest with the incredible India!!!


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## sdjd2013

ma bufang is a bad *** mofo



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> KMT is not better than Qing Dynasty, except without the pigtail.
> 
> Heck, PRC is 100 times better than your stupid ROC, with a illiteracy of over 80%, who wanna live in that sh!thole?
> 
> Your beloved ROC can make an illiteracy contest with the incredible India!!!



ARe you kidding? Have you ever been to the country side of China? particularly in the central part? someone actually asked me if the U.S. had it's cultural revolution yet. I laughed into my sleep. Everyone in China over 40 is an illiterate. face it, the cultural revolution decimated two generations of youths.

you should be glad you were born later and able to live in a better place. If China is such a wonderful place, why didn't you stay and breath the fresh, morning air?

don't get me wrong, I actually like the nite life there, when I was single.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> ma bufang is a bad *** mofo
> 
> 
> 
> ARe you kidding? Have you ever been to the country side of China? particularly in the central part? someone actually asked me if the U.S. had it's cultural revolution yet. I laughed into my sleep. Everyone in China over 40 is an illiterate. face it, the cultural revolution decimated two generations of youths.



The country side of PRC is still 100 times better than your hellhole ROC.

ROC is the biggest shame of China's history, you guys have lost far more land than Qing Dynasty, it should be excluded from the Chinese history.


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The country side of PRC is still 100 times better than your hellhole ROC.
> 
> ROC is the biggest shame of China's history, you guys have lost far more land than Qing Dynasty, it should be excluded from the Chinese history.



bah, you're just being facetious. You mean you wish all Chinese in Taiwan eradicated? Let me ask you a question that I know you will not answer honestly, so don't answer: What has ANY Taiwanese, or American, done to YOU, OR ANY CHINESE, that deserves such deep seeded hatred??? don't forget, if it weren't for the KMT and Americans, we probably would be speaking Japanese; and, what land are you talking about? pathetic border disputes? what land has the CCP gained that makes you so proud? why do countries in the pacific rim choose to side with the u.s. while China has to exert control over Tibet and other eastern regions by force? China might be great, but don't have the boxer rebellion mentality. That is straight out dumb.

If you weren't Chinese, I probably dist you like those dirty flips. I know my questions are poignant enough for a lasting impression, and I hope you will think about it. If you don't, then I don't really give a rats ***, b/c it's your life. You live in a hypocrisy if can't face the fact that you left china for a better life and more opportunities. therefore, i know you are dug in b/c you feel offended. Hey, i'm trying to help you, and if you don't want it, then to hell with you and your faggot mao who skates on chiang's goodwill only to backstab him. he's nothing but a murderer and backstabber.

PRC people are all dumb shits and hypocrites who left china for a better life, but only shits on other people's lawns thinking its cool and cry about it when they get bashed in the heads like what happened in Ghana. Admit the fact you can't stand to live in China and that's why you left before you criticize the very freedom you enjoy away from china.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> bah, you're just being facetious. You mean you wish all Chinese in Taiwan eradicated? Let me ask you a question that I know you will not answer honestly, so don't answer: What has ANY Taiwanese, or American, done to YOU, OR ANY CHINESE, that deserves such deep seeded hatred??? don't forget, *if it weren't for the KMT and Americans, we probably would be speaking Japanese*; and, what land are you talking about? pathetic border disputes? what land has the CCP gained that makes you so proud? why do countries in the pacific rim choose to side with the u.s. while China has to exert control over Tibet and other eastern regions by force? China might be great, but don't have the boxer rebellion mentality. That is straight out dumb.



Hey, PLA was also part of KMT during that time, Chiang and his cronies haven't declared the war on Nippon until the bombing the Pearl Harbor. Typical KMT pu$$ies.

Now Taiwan is enjoying a 100 billion USD trade surplus per year with the Mainland, do you wanna get rid of that bonus?


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## Zero_wing

:offpost You folks start your own thread


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Hey, PLA was also part of KMT during that time, Chiang and his cronies haven't declared the war on Nippon until the bombing the Pearl Harbor. Typical KMT pu$$ies.
> 
> Now Taiwan is enjoying a 100 billion USD trade surplus per year with the Mainland, do you wanna get rid of that bonus?



wrong, second sino-jap war started in 1937, pearl harbor happened in 1942. KMT officially fought the japs for 8 years. In the first year no one in Europe wanted to help KMT, cuz they viewd KMT as a faction, and everyone thought Japan would take china within 6 months, but the war lasted 8 years.

I couldn't careless about China kissing Taiwan's ***. I live in the states.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> wrong, second sino-jap war started in 1937, pearl harbor happened in 1942. KMT officially fought the japs for 8 years. In the first year no one in Europe wanted to help KMT, cuz they viewd KMT as a faction, and everyone thought Japan would take china within 6 months, but the war lasted 8 years.
> 
> I couldn't careless about China kissing Taiwan's ***. I live in the states.



Got invaded by 1937, yet only had the gut to declare war on invader by 1942, this made KMT a 100% US slave without any sovereignty.


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## sdjd2013

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Got invaded by 1937, yet only had the gut to declare the on war on invader by 1942, this made KMT a 100% US slave without any sovereignty.



what does declaring war have to do with ANYTHING??? like I said, lose the bubble for your own sake. Your views are totally distorted. If KMT is a U.S. slave, and if CCP was part of KMT, then by LOGIC what does that make the CCP? forget the labels and all the propagandas you have ever learned. THINK freely and JUDGE based on experience (whether your own or from others). That's how you become better. Im done with your lessons.


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## ChineseTiger1986

sdjd2013 said:


> what does declaring war have to do with ANYTHING??? like I said, lose the bubble for your own sake. Your views are totally distorted. If KMT is a U.S. slave, and if CCP was part of KMT, then by LOGIC what does that make the CCP? forget the labels and all the propagandas you have ever learned. THINK freely and JUDGE based on experience (whether your own or from others). That's how you become better. Im done with your lessons.



CPC only temporarily accepted the rule under KMT to fight off the Japanese invaders, when the war was over, good riddance for the Chinese people to support CPC to kick the US puppet KMT out.


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## Zero_wing

make your own thread


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## Bienvenido

any latest development?


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## Zero_wing

none yet so far


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## sdjd2013

Taiwan burnishes regional credentials with measured response to Filipino aggression | euronews, world news

This is how the world views the incident. You will never hear about it again. It's diplomacy at work. You guys think it's all about weapons and power? The pen is MIGHTIER than the sword, Buddy!


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## Zero_wing

Guys said something smart


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