# Let's build PDF into a proper think tank.



## Kompromat

All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.

* Geopolitics Desk
* Counterterrorism Desk
* Economics Desk
* Defense & Military Desk
* Political Intelligence

Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.

There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.

We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.

*PROJECTS:

Syria Conflict 
Yemen Conflict 
Afghanistan Conflict 
SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations
Nuclear Suppliers Group Project 
Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan 
Pakistan Economy / Food / Water Security
Counterterrorism inc Ethnofascist terror
Brexit, EU Research Project 
CPEC/BRI Project 
Kashmir Project*

Ideas?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005376324918226944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005357511673819136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005376327480958976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005377760016125952

@WebMaster

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## Kambojaric

What would this project entail? My guess is periodical opinion pieces in the respective sections (desks) with higher content quality including reference to sources?


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## Kompromat

No opinion pieces. I want to collect open source intelligence and later use that database to build PDF papers. 

For instance if you're working on our Syria Desk, you'll look for daily updates on the ongoing conflict and your job will be to post excerpts of actionable information on the board with a source. 

Slowly the information grid will build up and users will see a clear picture of the conflict or a subject matter. 

This is a typical example of a "Project" .




Kambojaric said:


> What would this project entail? My guess is periodical opinion pieces in the respective sections (desks) with higher content quality including reference to sources?

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## MH65

I am a published author (of scientific research papers). If you need assistance in publishing, stream lining, producing and standardizing journals, I can offer my services.

If you want to publish your findings of this forum, perhaps a quarterly journal (online + hard copy) would do you good.

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## Tps43

Horus said:


> All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.
> 
> * Geopolitics Desk
> * Counterterrorism Desk
> * Economics Desk
> * Defense & Military Desk
> * Political Intelligence
> 
> Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.
> 
> There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.
> 
> We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> @WebMaster


Intellegnce Desk?
National sec Desk?

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## Azadkashmir

I think a a charity organization is good like pdf water well scheme for the poor. 
A shop to buy pdf t shirt, shoes,hats, etc t5o show support some revenue pays for Charity schemes.

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## Kompromat

Not a lot of data available on Intel. 



tps77 said:


> Intellegnce Desk?
> National sec Desk?

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## fitpOsitive

Horus said:


> All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.
> 
> * Geopolitics Desk
> * Counterterrorism Desk
> * Economics Desk
> * Defense & Military Desk
> * Political Intelligence
> 
> Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.
> 
> There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.
> 
> We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.
> 
> *PROJECTS:
> 
> Syria Conflict
> Yemen Conflict
> Afghanistan Conflict
> SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations
> Nuclear Suppliers Group Project
> Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan
> Pakistan Economy / Food / Water Security
> Counterterrorism inc Ethnofascist terror
> Brexit, EU Research Project
> CPEC/BRI Project
> Kashmir Project *
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> @WebMaster


With montly magazine issues?


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## Kompromat

You'll have to work like a mule.



MH65 said:


> I am a published author (of scientific research papers). If you need assistance in publishing, stream lining, producing and standardizing journals, I can offer my services.
> 
> If you want to publish your findings of this forum, perhaps a quarterly journal (online + hard copy) would do you good.



Magazine is not possible at this point.



fitpOsitive said:


> With montly magazine issues?


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## Tps43

Horus said:


> Not a lot of data available on Intel.


But still we can cover many things in national security desk like all issues policies regarding national security , even afghan refugee issue comes under national security issue?

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## Kompromat

Sure. Count it in. 



tps77 said:


> But still we can cover many things in national security desk like all issues policies regarding national security , even afghan refugee issue comes under national security issue?

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## MH65

Horus said:


> You'll have to work like a mule.
> 
> 
> 
> Magazine is not possible at this point.



It is donkey work I know. have done it over the years for my own research. Can do for other people's work too, here. But you will get international standard language and presentation.

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## Tps43

Horus said:


> All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.
> 
> * Geopolitics Desk
> * Counterterrorism Desk
> * Economics Desk
> * Defense & Military Desk
> * Political Intelligence
> 
> Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.
> 
> There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.
> 
> We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.
> 
> *PROJECTS:
> 
> Syria Conflict
> Yemen Conflict
> Afghanistan Conflict
> SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations
> Nuclear Suppliers Group Project
> Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan
> Pakistan Economy / Food / Water Security
> Counterterrorism inc Ethnofascist terror
> Brexit, EU Research Project
> CPEC/BRI Project
> Kashmir Project *
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> @WebMaster


All types of warfares active against pakistan?

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## Kompromat

We're getting beaten up in international media. Let's chip in. 



MH65 said:


> It is donkey work I know. have done it over the years for my own research. Can do for other people's work too, here. But you will get international standard language and presentation.

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## Path-Finder

Great initiative. My contribution will be null

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## Tps43

Path-Finder said:


> Great initiative. My contribution will be null


Political?

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## Path-Finder

tps77 said:


> Political?


Afghanistan?

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## YeBeWarned

tps77 said:


> Political?



We need a C-130 desk as well , lots of people need to board that plane .. @Hell hound @Mentee

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## Path-Finder

Why not get the creme of Pakistan to write on PDF?

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## Tps43

Starlord said:


> We need a C-130 desk as well , lots of people need to board that plane .. @Hell hound @Mentee


I knew it u would say it

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## MM_Haider

Hi .. that’s a really great initiative .. I frequently write blogs/ articles in papers from local to Geo politics .. right now I’m working on a project related to current info Pak situation vis-a-vis history of delipmatic standoff is concerned .. and why Manzur Mehsud is required to be taken seriously .. 
any task given to me .. will be honour for me to carry out .. 
so count me in please

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## SabzShaheen

Azadkashmir said:


> A shop to buy pdf t shirt, shoes,hats, etc t5o show support some revenue pays for Charity schemes.


I would definitely buy pdf merch for charity so long as the designs are good

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## Sine Nomine

Very Good


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## Azadkashmir

Azadkashmir said:


> I think a a charity organization is good like pdf water well scheme for the poor.
> A shop to buy pdf t shirt, shoes,hats, etc t5o show support some revenue pays for Charity schemes.



The one i would like to see it is big in this day and age is herbal medicine


SabzShaheen said:


> I would definitely buy pdf merch for charity so long as the designs are good



They need to go commercial to make fund that can help its recognition and employment. I don't mind buying a big poster pdf art of pak military a explosion of diff kind of things happening from jets flying to soldiers firing guns etc.


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## SabzShaheen

Azadkashmir said:


> The one i would like to see it is big in this day and age is herbal medicine


interesting, though perhaps best to stick with defense related items.



Azadkashmir said:


> They need to go commercial to make fund that can help its recognition and employment. I don't mind buying a big poster pdf art of pak military a explosion of diff kind of things happening from jets flying to soldiers firing guns etc.


one of my uncles has (or had) a paf calender which i really liked, would definitely buy one of those.

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## Asimzranger

if logo or art ,graphic related you need i can help

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## Mentee

@MastanKhan sir you once proposed to shape the world's opinion in Paks favor by using pdf as a medium 

@Signalian @Kaptaan

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## Mrc

Great idea...

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## Army research

Horus said:


> All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.
> 
> * Geopolitics Desk
> * Counterterrorism Desk
> * Economics Desk
> * Defense & Military Desk
> * Political Intelligence
> 
> Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.
> 
> There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.
> 
> We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.
> 
> *PROJECTS:
> 
> Syria Conflict
> Yemen Conflict
> Afghanistan Conflict
> SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations
> Nuclear Suppliers Group Project
> Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan
> Pakistan Economy / Food / Water Security
> Counterterrorism inc Ethnofascist terror
> Brexit, EU Research Project
> CPEC/BRI Project
> Kashmir Project *
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> @WebMaster


Great initiative horus, I always wondered why has PDF Not taken steps to have a more prominent say, glad to see them being taken ,
Godspeed

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## PDF

Horus said:


> All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.
> 
> * Geopolitics Desk
> * Counterterrorism Desk
> * Economics Desk
> * Defense & Military Desk
> * Political Intelligence
> 
> Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.
> 
> There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.
> 
> We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.
> 
> *PROJECTS:
> 
> Syria Conflict
> Yemen Conflict
> Afghanistan Conflict
> SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations
> Nuclear Suppliers Group Project
> Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan
> Pakistan Economy / Food / Water Security
> Counterterrorism inc Ethnofascist terror
> Brexit, EU Research Project
> CPEC/BRI Project
> Kashmir Project *
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> @WebMaster



I have interest in IR especially related to Pakistan. I want to participate in 'SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations Project.'




Horus said:


> We're getting beaten up in international media. Let's chip in.


In the current environment, I think the bias reporting by news outlets is severely damaging Pakistan's image.
Newspapers such as Dawn and New York Times do not hold anything back when they negatively report about Pakistan especially about the military. I think trying to set the correct stance and sharing the POV of Pakistan is necessary to curb the manipulation done by the media houses.
I would make a suggestion that we make two groups and assign one of them to counter anti- Pak narrative in national news and one of them to refute anti Pak narrative in international news. 

It is not to say that we do not have faults and we shall always welcome critical _criticism_. However, we must be beware of the medium of media used to fight wars.

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## MastanKhan

Mentee said:


> @MastanKhan sir you once proposed to shape the world's opinion in Paks favor by using pdf as a medium
> 
> @Signalian @Kaptaan



Hi,

Thanks for the tag---.

Everything has an EXPIRE BY date----the authenticity and importance of PDF has expired---.

The is just another website---that maybe visited by a multitude---but its significance to project itself for Pakistan---has been lost---.

Where it could have projected Pakistan and Pakistanis right from the front from a position of power---now it would be being dragged from behind---. What a shame---.

Ordinary people can never make extra-ordinary decisions---.

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## WaLeEdK2

PakDef would have a far better chance of doing that.


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## Army research

M.Musa said:


> I have interest in IR especially related to Pakistan. I want to participate in 'SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations Project.'
> 
> 
> 
> In the current environment, I think the bias reporting by news outlets is severely damaging Pakistan's image.
> Newspapers such as Dawn and New York Times do not hold anything back when they negatively report about Pakistan especially about the military. I think trying to set the correct stance and sharing the POV of Pakistan is necessary to curb the manipulation done by the media houses.
> I would make a suggestion that we make two groups and assign one of them to counter anti- Pak narrative in national news and one of them to refute anti Pak narrative in international news.
> 
> It is not to say that we do not have faults and we shall always welcome critical _criticism_. However, we must be beware of the medium of media used to fight wars.



Fight fire with fire, 
Counter propaganda is very important 
I concur with your suggestion


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## Kambojaric

Horus said:


> No opinion pieces. I want to collect open source intelligence and later use that database to build PDF papers.
> 
> For instance if you're working on our Syria Desk, you'll look for daily updates on the ongoing conflict and your job will be to post excerpts of actionable information on the board with a source.
> 
> Slowly the information grid will build up and users will see a clear picture of the conflict or a subject matter.
> 
> This is a typical example of a "Project" .



Fair enough. If you need a person for Scandinavian language content (say latest info on Gripen) you can count me in.

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## MM_Haider

Can someone please let me know how can I contribute in this cause.. while living abroad I really see a great influence of Indian content and point of view on every forum.. I write!!.. 



MM_Haider said:


> Hi .. that’s a really great initiative .. I frequently write blogs/ articles in papers from local to Geo politics .. right now I’m working on a project related to current info Pak situation vis-a-vis history of delipmatic standoff is concerned .. and why Manzur Mehsud is required to be taken seriously ..
> any task given to me .. will be honour for me to carry out ..
> so count me in please


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## PDF

WaLeEdK2 said:


> PakDef would have a far better chance of doing that.


Well this is Pakistan Defence Forum. Please do not name other forums as this is against pdf policy. PDF can have a better chance if members like you try to contribute here rather than give a pessimistic post.

Anyway,
@Burhan Wani you might want to participate here in the Kashmir Project.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/lets-build-pdf-into-a-proper-think-tank.562524/

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## Burhan Wani

M.Musa said:


> Well this is Pakistan Defence Forum. Please do not name other forums as this is against pdf policy. PDF can have a better chance if members like you try to contribute here rather than give a pessimistic post.
> 
> Anyway,
> @Burhan Wani you might want to participate here in the Kashmir Project.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/lets-build-pdf-into-a-proper-think-tank.562524/


Kashmir & Afghanistan.

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## Ace of Spades

Horus said:


> All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.
> 
> * Geopolitics Desk
> * Counterterrorism Desk
> * Economics Desk
> * Defense & Military Desk
> * Political Intelligence
> 
> Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.
> 
> There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.
> 
> We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.
> 
> *PROJECTS:
> 
> Syria Conflict
> Yemen Conflict
> Afghanistan Conflict
> SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations
> Nuclear Suppliers Group Project
> Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan
> Pakistan Economy / Food / Water Security
> Counterterrorism inc Ethnofascist terror
> Brexit, EU Research Project
> CPEC/BRI Project
> Kashmir Project *
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> @WebMaster




Great idea; shall be done! But i am afraid it will take pdf ages from it's current form to be a think tank. I am having the idea of creating an opinion website. To have a say on international (english) media. In online format Pakistan lacks credible websites for international users. We have some english newspapers but we all know those so called intellectuals and their intellect level. Also, for the think tank we shall definitely work on something but in my opinion dissociate it from PDF, new brand name, from scratch. Produce some policy papers but first on national level and see how it goes and if it takes off and create some ripples then broaden the sphere.


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## Corona

There is a lot of ambiguity in pdf about the roles played by ordinary members. 
I know there are members from way before who still make valid contributions. The older members here talk about how the forum and the community were better before, but it seems the forum is attracting a different crowd now. It seems to me pdf is slowly becoming another medium for people to swing insults across the border without paying for the telephone bills and that's it. 
I suppose pdf itself will have to decide what sort of platform it wants to be.

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## Cookie Monster

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the tag---.
> 
> Everything has an EXPIRE BY date----the authenticity and importance of PDF as expired---.
> 
> The is just another website---that maybe visited by a multitude---but its significance to project itself for Pakistan---has been lost---.
> 
> Where it could have projected Pakistan and Pakistanis right from the front from a position of power---now it would be being dragged from behind---. What a shame---.
> 
> Ordinary people can never make extra-ordinary decisions---.


But still...better late than never. I mean what else is there analogous to what @Horus is proposing. IMO it's worth a try.


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## fitpOsitive

Horus said:


> You'll have to work like a mule.
> 
> 
> 
> Magazine is not possible at this point.


What about Electronic copy? Though difficult task, it seems.


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## MastanKhan

Cookie Monster said:


> But still...better late than never. I mean what else is there analogous to what @Horus is proposing. IMO it's worth a try.



Hi,

The comments like " it is never too late --- " are outdated---. It is a sob story for those who refused the progress and a sad story for those who did not stand up in time---.

A successful and progressive people and nation don't say " it is never too late "---because they are already in sync and takling the problem up front---.

It is like a PAF oficer saying it is never too late---. 

It really is never too late till the moment you find out it is too late---.

I agree with you---but first you need to terminate all those senior TT members and Mods who were against this idea---.

These people need to be shamed and kicked out---.

I would like to ask those TT members who were for this idea in their private board meetings to name those TT members who were against this idea---and name those mods who were against it as well---.

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## Novice09

@Horus 

The issue with PDF is that you guys have allowed foul language and below the belt rants of several forum members unpunished...

This has degraded the quality of posts and discussion on this forum... this forum was way better till 2011...

I can recall one of the debate based on technological knowledge between @gambit and @MastanKhan during that period on some fighter jet... I was reading each and every post of that topic without poking my nose into it as I was really thrilled with the pool of info... any troll attempt by any poster was nipped in the bud...

But those were the days... now I find gangadeshi, Bangladeshis, short black bengali, cow piss, pork, attack of religions and things like this... that's too going unpunished... admins and staff is also do things like this...

@Horus if you want a defence website of international standard... you need to take action against such People... now this forum is full of trolls... and sometimes even I also get carried away...

I can give some great inputs when it comes to economy on this forum... but for that an healthy environment is required...

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## Signalian

Mentee said:


> @MastanKhan sir you once proposed to shape the world's opinion in Paks favor by using pdf as a medium
> 
> @Signalian @Kaptaan


I also proposed once in a thread what can members here on PDF do for Pakistan, but it was generic.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-can-pdf-members-do-for-pakistan.480791/

I was more interested in doing for Pakistan through PDF and not for PDF itself, however down the lane PDF would have been highlighted in shining words too, as this would have been the main medium to launch the effort.

As for the topic at hand,
Yar my R&D is in technical area, my own profession of cellular communications, as that takes the chunk of my time nowadays, mainly 4G technology. My participation in defence/military related topics is due to my training in uniform, my affiliation with security industry of Pakistan and my ambition to portray Pakistan Armed Forces positively on this forum. 
I could contribute to this area , *Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan *, by giving technical analysis, deployment and usage of the procured weapons, radar and electronic systems. Lets see how this turns out now.

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## Kompromat

You are the creme. 



Path-Finder said:


> Why not get the creme of Pakistan to write on PDF?



Sending you DM. 



Asimz said:


> if logo or art ,graphic related you need i can help



I've studied it in detail and cut the fat. 
I already have a structure in mind which believe will be pragmatic while keeping pdf limitations in mind. 

Follow up thread will address that. 



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The comments like " it is never too late --- " are outdated---. It is a sob story for those who refused the progress and a sad story for those who did not stand up in time---.
> 
> A successful and progressive people and nation don't say " it is never too late "---because they are already in sync and takling the problem up front---.
> 
> It is like a PAF oficer saying it is never too late---.
> 
> It really is never too late till the moment you find out it is too late---.
> 
> I agree with you---but first you need to terminate all those senior TT members and Mods who were against this idea---.
> 
> These people need to be shamed and kicked out---.
> 
> I would like to ask those TT members who were for this idea in their private board meetings to name those TT members who were against this idea---and name those mods who were against it as well---.

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## Zarvan

Horus said:


> All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.
> 
> * Geopolitics Desk
> * Counterterrorism Desk
> * Economics Desk
> * Defense & Military Desk
> * Political Intelligence
> 
> Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.
> 
> There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.
> 
> We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.
> 
> *PROJECTS:
> 
> Syria Conflict
> Yemen Conflict
> Afghanistan Conflict
> SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations
> Nuclear Suppliers Group Project
> Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan
> Pakistan Economy / Food / Water Security
> Counterterrorism inc Ethnofascist terror
> Brexit, EU Research Project
> CPEC/BRI Project
> Kashmir Project *
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> @WebMaster


What I can do to help. I think I can give good opinion on Arms thing and Counter Terrorism specially the ideology part


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## Kompromat

Noted



Zarvan said:


> What I can do to help. I think I can give good opinion on Arms thing and Counter Terrorism specially the ideology part

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## Maarkhoor

@Horus
I Can help on topic ...war on terrorism (Insider look), Intelligence and India's war against CPEC.

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## SabzShaheen

i thought this wasn't about opinion pieces bit members still offering to give their opinions. We already have plenty of opinions on pdf to put it kindly.


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## Mrc

I can help ... 
I hold western post grad degrees... n worked in UK for 15 years... 

I can help with general strategic and geo political perspectives


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## Kompromat

OP updated


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## Reichsmarschall

Horus said:


> OP updated


can you guys please stay away from politics?
PDF should be representative of Pakistan and not a particular party
just because of your meddling in politics people are against Pakstan Defence 
top comments on your all FB posts are always anti Pakistan


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## Kompromat

You clearly don't understand. 




Reichsmarschall said:


> can you guys please stay away from politics?
> PDF should be representative of Pakistan and not a particular party
> just because of your meddling in politics people are against Pakstan Defence
> top comments on your all FB posts are always anti Pakistan


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## Path-Finder

Horus said:


> You are the creme.
> 
> 
> 
> Sending you DM.
> 
> 
> 
> I've studied it in detail and cut the fat.
> I already have a structure in mind which believe will be pragmatic while keeping pdf limitations in mind.
> 
> Follow up thread will address that.


Well that's very kind of you.


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## Aladyinkuwait

I can focus on the Middle East primarily in Geopolitics. And we don't have to create a magazine, but if we write the current affairs down, that can be easily converted to a .pdf file, on a weekly basis.


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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005435549535137793
Wah hazrat @Zarvan ji


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## Zarvan

Horus said:


> No opinion pieces. I want to collect open source intelligence and later use that database to build PDF papers.
> 
> For instance if you're working on our Syria Desk, you'll look for daily updates on the ongoing conflict and your job will be to post excerpts of actionable information on the board with a source.
> 
> Slowly the information grid will build up and users will see a clear picture of the conflict or a subject matter.
> 
> This is a typical example of a "Project" .


Well than for that I would be great at researching on what is going on in international weapons trade and I am often roaming around those websites which give these news and other places and also be can be useful at National Security specially improving Police And Intelligence gathering and Counter terrorism


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## EAK

Count me in .. @Horus


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## ali_raza

i can help with arab country’s politics 
internel gcc politics i can fluently speak and write arabic too


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## pzfz

How about operating like a think tank instead of creating another platform? This includes banning all indians, yes all, and all fanboys that respond childishly.


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## jhungary

Having worked in a few think tank (My last is from Lowy Institute) You probably need a shoot over the star effort to make this into an actual think tank. 

To start, even if you put a separate page or line, but as long as any of you have any association with PDF, people are going to come in here and look at the forum and see all kind of crazy shit going on here and basically nullify your authority. 

Then you will also need people who are qualified to talk about such thing (Like intelligence and national security etc), you cannot just put anyone in talking about these subject where they don't actually know anything to research such topics. 

To start a think tank, you need to have academic, scientific and open minded people in it, I don't know if this forum is a right place to find the combination of these qualities.

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## Kompromat

We are now working for assigning analysts to various desks/projects.


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## Avicenna

Horus said:


> All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.
> 
> * Geopolitics Desk
> * Counterterrorism Desk
> * Economics Desk
> * Defense & Military Desk
> * Political Intelligence
> 
> Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.
> 
> There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.
> 
> We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.
> 
> *PROJECTS:
> 
> Syria Conflict
> Yemen Conflict
> Afghanistan Conflict
> SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations
> Nuclear Suppliers Group Project
> Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan
> Pakistan Economy / Food / Water Security
> Counterterrorism inc Ethnofascist terror
> Brexit, EU Research Project
> CPEC/BRI Project
> Kashmir Project*
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005376324918226944
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005357511673819136
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005376327480958976
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005377760016125952
> 
> @WebMaster



This is actually a fantastic idea.


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## MastanKhan

Mentee said:


> @MastanKhan sir you once proposed to shape the world's opinion in Paks favor by using pdf as a medium
> 
> @Signalian @Kaptaan



Hi,

It is all about the timing---. At that time pakistan was in the limelight---good or bad---that was the time to project pakistan---but incidently---due to incompetence---cowardice---arrogance---ignorance---that opportune moment was failed by those very men who wave the green flag---.

These boys are all cheap talk---. The purpose of the talk is not to inform the other side---the purpose of the talk is to know the white man sitting across and then counter it---understand the strategy and tactics as well---not to offend but to slip the knife in when possible---.

During Clinton's second term---Palestine was right at the top---till Arafat walked out of camp David---he thought big of himself---and that was the death of Palestine---. America got tired of Palestines shenanigans---and in a couple three years---palestine was out of the US good books---.

Same thing with Pakistan---who wants to hear about pakistan---no one. It kept quite after 2011 abbotabad incidence---.

It did nothing when asked at the begining of Yemen crisis---. Pakistan chose to be a NOBODY---when you are poor and chose to be neutral---then you become a nobody.

An active---right from the front part in the Yemen crisis would have put pakistan in the world's most important countries---pakistanis chose not to.

Now it is like----mootar wichoon macchiaan pharnian ney ( like catching fish in a cesspool )---( sorry about the crude comment )---.

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## thinkingcap81

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is all about the timing---. At that time pakistan was in the limelight---good or bad---that was the time to project pakistan---but incidently---due to incompetence---cowardice---arrogance---ignorance---that opportune moment was failed by those very men who wave the green flag---.
> 
> These boys are all cheap talk---. The purpose of the talk is not to inform the other side---the purpose of the talk is to know the white man sitting across and then counter it---understand the strategy and tactics as well---not to offend but to slip the knife in when possible---.
> 
> During Clinton's second term---Palestine was right at the top---till Arafat walked out of camp David---he thought big of himself---and that was the death of Palestine---. America got tired of Palestines shenanigans---and in a couple three years---palestine was out of the US good books---.
> 
> Same thing with Pakistan---who wants to hear about pakistan---no one. It kept quite after 2011 abbotabad incidence---.
> 
> It did nothing when asked at the begining of Yemen crisis---. Pakistan chose to be a NOBODY---when you are poor and chose to be neutral---then you become a nobody.
> 
> An active---right from the front part in the Yemen crisis would have put pakistan in the world's most important countries---pakistanis chose not to.
> 
> Now it is like----mootar wichoon macchiaan pharnian ney ( like catching fish in a cesspool )---( sorry about the crude comment )---.



Its more of a subcontinent thing - choosing to be a nothing and yet fantasizing that we are something.

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## Godman

The Forum should be separate from the Think Tank.
The Think Tank should have professionals not some armchair generals

The forum should learn from Bellingcat (created by the Blog Brown Moses) to create a community driven analysis site on global defense issues seperate from but connected to the think tank


Just my thoughts on some additions


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## Zulfiqar1919

This forum is laid out in an inadequate way. It is too focused on military affairs. Most people using this forum are no longer “strategic analysts”. That may have been the case in the beginning, but now most users are just ordinary Pakistanis who want to discuss social and political and even religious issues. It hardly makes sense that there is an entire section for Navy, entire section for Air Force, entire section for various other countries militaries but not even a single religion or Islam section. Forum has to change in order to reflect its users.


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## MastanKhan

Zulfiqar1919 said:


> It hardly makes sense that there is an entire section for Navy, entire section for Air Force, entire section for various other countries militaries but not even a single religion or Islam section. Forum has to change in order to reflect its users.



Hi,

You indeed take the meaning of "being an imbecile " to new lows---.

This is a pakistan defense forum---so---yes---the discussion would be about weapons and wars---and no---this is not a religious or islamic forum---.

The users need t have brains and intellect to adjust to the forum---. When you walk into someone's house---you adjust to their setup or you get to leave---.

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## Devilduck

Hi. I lose my ability to do reply due to my sensitive reply on a random hate speech. May i know how do i regain the ability to reply since i got reply blocked without warning. I was constantly posting constructive/knowledgeable replies except for the last post which i got really offended and say something that i should'nt say.


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## M.R.9

My suggestion is- I think Need some extra board. IS it possible to add - 3 or 4 items in one forum ?


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## patriotpakistan

If you have a desk for intelligence related matters (domestic, foreign, open source), I'm interested and willing to put in the work. It's a serious offer so I hope you consider it.


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## Neutron

Horus said:


> All pieces are present. We've worked hard and made our place in the national debates. Its time to shift gears. I call upon the brain trust of PDF to come forward and help build this community into a think tank. Here are areas i have in mind.
> 
> * Geopolitics Desk
> * Counterterrorism Desk
> * Economics Desk
> * Defense & Military Desk
> * Political Intelligence
> 
> Now, i know this isn't a new idea. We've tried and failed before. But we've also learned. Im giving my resolute commitment to all who come forward to man these desks. From now on our work shall be properly published as it should have a long time ago.
> 
> There will be 1X incharge of each desk with analysts attached to help with R&D. Every desk will run projects.
> 
> We got sections carved up, so no structural change required.
> 
> *PROJECTS:
> 
> Syria Conflict
> Yemen Conflict
> Afghanistan Conflict
> SCO Updates / Pakistan Foreign Relations
> Nuclear Suppliers Group Project
> Arms Imports/Exports to/from Pakistan
> Pakistan Economy / Food / Water Security
> Counterterrorism inc Ethnofascist terror
> Brexit, EU Research Project
> CPEC/BRI Project
> Kashmir Project*
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005376324918226944
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005357511673819136
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005376327480958976
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005377760016125952
> 
> @WebMaster


What about your Kashmir Project. Gone with the wind ?


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## The Eagle

@Shane @PakSword @Signalian & tag others. Choose the topic and you can bring quality read.

Regards,

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## Amaa'n

The Eagle said:


> @Shane @PakSword @Signalian & tag others. Choose the topic and you can bring quality read.
> 
> Regards,


for months I have been begging for a pay rise ..... no more work from me till some one pays up or i get a fat cheque


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## The Accountant

The Eagle said:


> @Shane @PakSword @Signalian & tag others. Choose the topic and you can bring quality read.
> 
> Regards,


I suggest to make an editorial team. There should featured research / opinion articles to be submitted to the editorial team. Editorial team after review and changes should post them in a separate area of featured research section. 

It should be based on monthly publication on a fixed date so that members expect to get something interesting.

In every field create some pannel of writers that are willing spare time to draft the articles with indepth research.

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## Amaa'n

we need to restructure the forum for title holders ....
Get rid of TTA or get rid of TTC, they need to be merged ..... I don't see whats the difference b/w them tbh....

as mentioned by @Horus a year ago, we need to have designated teams / Desks taking care of their assigned area ....Staff Members to be renamed as their parent team or designated team i.e Political Desk Staff Member , Counter Terrorism Staff, Counter Intelligence , Defense & Military Hardware Development , InfoWarfare Staff .....No one will be assigned to any team till they have been vetted thoroughly.....Any team found sitting on their butt enjoying the title with no input to be disbanded or demoted ...... 

@WebMaster @The Eagle

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## Slav Defence

The Pakistan Defence Team already has well structured team of think tanks. The problem is that PDF's staff including everyone from moderation team to a regular contributor are working free of cost for the sake of Pakistan and we are trying to play our part to present Pakistan in a way she deserves. We have as Pakistanis faced a lot of Indian propaganda as well as nonsense built by some international biased media cells working for specific agendas. We people who are living in Pakistan or were living in Pakistan know what it is like to live in Pakistan and how peaceful this country is and unfortunately Pakistan is also facing challenges that we want to address and deal with things accordingly.However, our everyday commitments with life, jobs, education and family makes it difficult for us to keep up the pace with ongoing demands. We are still fighting with these challenges on volunteer basis and hopefully tomorrow our youth will hold this forum and continue to serve Pakistan.
We have structure and well defined policies. We have set up everything.However, *we require active crew *who regularly participates and fulfills given responsibility.

regards

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## ejaz007

Not possible to build a public forum into proper think tank forum. The reason is simple. Majority of Pakistanis really lack the knowledge or understanding to contribute. It might offend a lot of people but this is fact.

If you go through members contribution you shall come a cross lot of members who contribute many posts a day but their quality is below average.

Then their are members bound by their affiliation of political parties and consider other members having different views as traitors and enemy of the Pakistan.

Even Moderators, think tanks and staff members of the forum are no different.

I joined the forum when it was healthy place for discussion but with passage of time and increase of members quality has suffered.

We really need to punish those who do not contribute and only create divide on the forum.

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## Pakistani Fighter

ejaz007 said:


> Not possible to build a public forum into proper think tank forum. The reason is simple. Majority of Pakistanis really lack the knowledge or understanding to contribute. It might offend a lot of people but this is fact.
> 
> If you go through members contribution you shall come a cross lot of members who contribute many posts a day but their quality is below average.
> 
> Then their are members bound by their affiliation of political parties and consider other members having different views as traitors and enemy of the Pakistan.
> 
> Even Moderators, think tanks and staff members of the forum are no different.
> 
> I joined the forum when it was healthy place for discussion but with passage of time and increase of members quality has suffered.
> 
> We really need to punish those who do not contribute and only create divide on the forum.


What about someone who is here to seek knowledge?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

In order to make PDF more effective towards becoming a think tank, we NEED to permanently ban ALL indians and ANYONE else who is from a nation that is anti-Pakistani.

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## Defense Reader

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> In order to make PDF more effective towards becoming a think tank, we NEED to permanently ban ALL indians and ANYONE else who is from a nation that is anti-Pakistani.


Sir i think it will never work as you mentioned. Restriction will be possible only for one section or desk made for think tank not for whole PDF. It will further lose its popularity and growth if restrictions made for joining the fouram. And members like me will be unable to watch or learn healthy discussions and opinions from different posters of different regions.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Defense Reader said:


> Sir i think it will never work as you mentioned. Restriction will be possible only for one section or desk made for think tank not for whole PDF. It will further lose its popularity and growth if restrictions made for joining the fouram. And members like me will be unable to watch or learn healthy discussions and opinions from different posters of different regions.





There is NOTHING we can learn from indians.


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## ejaz007

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> What about someone who is here to seek knowledge?



Everyone is here to seek knowledge.

This does not mean you should start insulting others or start posting which makes no sense.

Seeking knowledge and posting nonsense are two different things.


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## jaibi

PDF is unique. It'll definitely go where we can challenge 'Think Tanks' that are nothing but lobbyists masquarading as intellectuals. PDF has been the only online Pakistani presence which has countered the narrative built against us. PDF has always done it by being itself. When we get there, we'll wave to all of you who don't believe in us


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## El Sidd

jaibi said:


> PDF is unique. It'll definitely go where we can challenge 'Think Tanks' that are nothing but lobbyists masquarading as intellectuals. PDF has been the only online Pakistani presence which has countered the narrative built against us. PDF has always done it by being itself. When we get there, we'll wave to all of you who don't believe in us



So you are saying copy pasting news articles will not make you a think tank analyst any longer? oh my such meritocracy may spill the end of existence of man on this planet as we know it.

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## jaibi

You don't know me from my original tenure here, it seems, RT. 



Retired Troll said:


> So you are saying copy pasting news articles will not make you a think tank analyst any longer? oh my such meritocracy may spill the end of existence of man on this planet as we know it.


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## El Sidd

jaibi said:


> You don't know me from my original tenure here, it seems, RT.



Nope. I stumbled upon this forum while waiting for a connecting flight


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## MastanKhan

ejaz007 said:


> Not possible to build a public forum into proper think tank forum. The reason is simple. Majority of Pakistanis really lack the knowledge or understanding to contribute. It might offend a lot of people but this is fact.
> 
> If you go through members contribution you shall come a cross lot of members who contribute many posts a day but their quality is below average.
> 
> Then their are members bound by their affiliation of political parties and consider other members having different views as traitors and enemy of the Pakistan.
> 
> Even Moderators, think tanks and staff members of the forum are no different.
> 
> I joined the forum when it was healthy place for discussion but with passage of time and increase of members quality has suffered.
> 
> We really need to punish those who do not contribute and only create divide on the forum.



I had recommended you for TT—-when I was a think tank member—-but i guess as i recommended you—you never got the title. Puny little beings.

You would gave done good.

my apologies for suggesting your name.

Fatman and araz were both against you.

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## Hassan Guy

Lets have Pakistan build more tanks.


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## Old School

Open source intelligence must be analyzed before the finished product can be deseminated. This is something which requires 'real experience' with intelligence analysis and report processing. Otherwise, the deseminated product will become nothing short of a biased news report or propaganda piece instead of a real intelligence work. Even WikiLeaks have help from seasoned intelligence analysts. Based on what I read in PDF, this is the weakest link here.


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## ejaz007

MastanKhan said:


> I had recommended you for TT—-when I was a think tank member—-but i guess as i recommended you—you never got the title. Puny little beings.
> 
> You would gave done good.
> 
> my apologies for suggesting your name.
> 
> Fatman and araz were both against you.



I don't know you are praising me or insulting but I shall take it as blessing in disguise for not being made think tank.


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## MastanKhan

ejaz007 said:


> I don't know you are praising me or insulting but I shall take it as blessing in disguise for not being made think tank.



Hi,

For once you have to jump into the waters---swim with the sharks to find out your true self---it never hurts---makes you stronger---.

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## Armchair

It's a great idea. I would be happy to help. I used to be part of Imran Khan's Insaf Research Wing (IRW) where we published white papers back in 2012. It was very frustrating at times as it was hard for us to get through, but I am glad today we see small elements of those ideas coming through (like a unified education system and removal of British O/A levels). 

Here are some general directions that need serious exploration from a military POV: 

1. Reforming the PA to include volunteer / conscript forces that can act as a reserve backup force for the highly professional PA units. (75% of the defense budget goes to salaries. Any battle against india will need a larger army and this is only possible via a volunteer / conscription force to support the present PA units)

2. Massive amounts of funds are being wasted by half-baked research and production establishments of the various armed forces (Navy, Army, AF, Strategic). These funds and resources can be better utilized by re-organizing them. Removal of semi-retired generals and having them run on merit and on a professional basis. What a waste endless ToTs have been becomes of this. This sham has to stop. 

3. Foresight / Future studies. As we understand, war is changing and old concepts are still hiding in the armed forces. These old concepts and those that guard them need to be assaulted in every way. Endless frigates to guard supply lines when no ship will ever supply Pak during war anyways. Just dumb. Serious rethinking of military strategy and tactics to be employed. A doctrine of war that builds on real industrial capability and unique circumstances of Pakistan rather than monkey versions of Western tactics copy pasted from Sandhurst or some other gora brainwashing institution. 

A lot of work is there to be done but no serious people there to do. I was part recently of the Insaf Research Team (IRT) but was sorely disappointed. Just dumb empire builders trying to varnish their egos and build a political career. Really, so many PhDs and Masters degree holders but so little brain in the third world that can think --- its really quite amazing how Lord Macauley's policies truly turned a great nation into dumb nitwits.

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## Pakistani Fighter

MastanKhan said:


> when I was a think tank membe


Were u removed as a TTA?


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## MastanKhan

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Were u removed as a TTA?



I resigned---



Armchair said:


> It's a great idea. I would be happy to help. I used to be part of Imran Khan's Insaf Research Wing (IRW) where we published white papers back in 2012. It was very frustrating at times as it was hard for us to get through, but I am glad today we see small elements of those ideas coming through (like a unified education system and removal of British O/A levels).
> 
> Here are some general directions that need serious exploration from a military POV:
> 
> 1. Reforming the PA to include volunteer / conscript forces that can act as a reserve backup force for the highly professional PA units. (75% of the defense budget goes to salaries. Any battle against india will need a larger army and this is only possible via a volunteer / conscription force to support the present PA units)
> 
> 2. Massive amounts of funds are being wasted by half-baked research and production establishments of the various armed forces (Navy, Army, AF, Strategic). These funds and resources can be better utilized by re-organizing them. Removal of semi-retired generals and having them run on merit and on a professional basis. What a waste endless ToTs have been becomes of this. This sham has to stop.
> 
> 3. Foresight / Future studies. As we understand, war is changing and old concepts are still hiding in the armed forces. These old concepts and those that guard them need to be assaulted in every way. Endless frigates to guard supply lines when no ship will ever supply Pak during war anyways. Just dumb. Serious rethinking of military strategy and tactics to be employed. A doctrine of war that builds on real industrial capability and unique circumstances of Pakistan rather than monkey versions of Western tactics copy pasted from Sandhurst or some other gora brainwashing institution.
> 
> A lot of work is there to be done but no serious people there to do. I was part recently of the Insaf Research Team (IRT) but was sorely disappointed. Just dumb empire builders trying to varnish their egos and build a political career. Really, so many PhDs and Masters degree holders but so little brain in the third world that can think --- its really quite amazing how Lord Macauley's policies truly turned a great nation into dumb nitwits.



Hi,

For that very reason and many other reasons as well---Getting into Yemen conflict would have changed the fate of pakistan to a stronger and powerful nation---.

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## Enigma SIG

Armchair said:


> It's a great idea. I would be happy to help. I used to be part of Imran Khan's Insaf Research Wing (IRW) where we published white papers back in 2012. It was very frustrating at times as it was hard for us to get through, but I am glad today we see small elements of those ideas coming through (like a unified education system and removal of British O/A levels).
> 
> Here are some general directions that need serious exploration from a military POV:
> 
> 1. Reforming the PA to include volunteer / conscript forces that can act as a reserve backup force for the highly professional PA units. (75% of the defense budget goes to salaries. Any battle against india will need a larger army and this is only possible via a volunteer / conscription force to support the present PA units)
> 
> 2. Massive amounts of funds are being wasted by half-baked research and production establishments of the various armed forces (Navy, Army, AF, Strategic). These funds and resources can be better utilized by re-organizing them. Removal of semi-retired generals and having them run on merit and on a professional basis. What a waste endless ToTs have been becomes of this. This sham has to stop.
> 
> 3. Foresight / Future studies. As we understand, war is changing and old concepts are still hiding in the armed forces. These old concepts and those that guard them need to be assaulted in every way. Endless frigates to guard supply lines when no ship will ever supply Pak during war anyways. Just dumb. Serious rethinking of military strategy and tactics to be employed. A doctrine of war that builds on real industrial capability and unique circumstances of Pakistan rather than monkey versions of Western tactics copy pasted from Sandhurst or some other gora brainwashing institution.
> 
> A lot of work is there to be done but no serious people there to do. I was part recently of the Insaf Research Team (IRT) but was sorely disappointed. Just dumb empire builders trying to varnish their egos and build a political career. Really, so many PhDs and Masters degree holders but so little brain in the third world that can think --- its really quite amazing how Lord Macauley's policies truly turned a great nation into dumb nitwits.


Does Pakistan have government sponsored think tanks or decisions take place behind closed doors?

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## Armchair

Enigma SIG said:


> Does Pakistan have government sponsored think tanks or decisions take place behind closed doors?



Think Tanks in Pakistan are mostly foreign sponsored propaganda outlets, or one man retirement hobbies. Government has a civil service which you can consider as a form of think tank that provides reports and does research, etc. 

What I was talking about was IRW and now IRT which were / are PTI think tanks. The first of any political party in Pakistan. Didn't really pan out as such but at least an attempt was there.


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## Enigma SIG

Armchair said:


> Think Tanks in Pakistan are mostly foreign sponsored propaganda outlets, or one man retirement hobbies. Government has a civil service which you can consider as a form of think tank that provides reports and does research, etc.
> 
> What I was talking about was IRW and now IRT which were / are PTI think tanks. The first of any political party in Pakistan. Didn't really pan out as such but at least an attempt was there.


I was thinking more on the lines of:
The Emirates Center for Strategic Studies & Research
Abu Dhabi, The United Arab Emirates.

https://www.ecssr.ae/en/


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