# Mosque attacked with petrol bomb in UK



## Safriz

24 May 2013 Last updated at 13:19 Help	

Police are investigating a petrol bomb attack on a mosque in Milton Keynes.

There were people inside the Granby Mosque at the time of the incident on Thursday night.

Eyewitnesses said they were able to put the fire out before it took hold.

Fazilat Shivji, from the Zainabia Islamic Centre, said the incident could have been much worse.

BBC News - Mosque attacked with petrol bomb

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## Fekay

There was also a murder in Birmingham of 75 year old Pakistani Muslim male before the woolwich incident. Surprisingly I've just heard about it now due to lack of coverage.
*
Birmingham murder may have been racially motivated, say police
Detectives appeal for witnesses after Mohammed Saleem, 75 old, was stabbed to death as he returned home from local mosque*
Birmingham murder may have been racially motivated, say police | UK news | The Guardian

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## livingdead

As expected racist people will use this opportunity. They should improve security to mosques... somebody was saying there are cctv cameras around most mosques.. which means people will be caught.

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## Developereo

hinduguy said:


> As expected racist people will use this opportunity.



Of course, but I am waiting for the usual suspects to insinuate that the "Muzlooms" deserve this.

When terrorism occurs against Westerners, they blame Muslims; when it occurs against Muslims, they still blame Muslims.

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## A.Rafay

Mosque Blower said:


> Instead of Petrol bombs, one should have used dynamite sticks in pre-drilled holes.Only looser will throw Petrol bomb.



And sore losers throw dynamite sticks to attack mosque.

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## Safriz

Mosque Blower said:


> Instead of Petrol bombs, one should have used dynamite sticks in pre-drilled holes.Only looser will throw Petrol bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes those scums lichs deserves worse than this.They should not be allowed to erect a mosque in non-muslim country, just the Saudi style.



lol 
Try it..........
and we will see who gets drilled by what

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## Kaniska

U r crazy guy man...wht is wrong with u


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## livingdead

Mosque Blower said:


> Are you indo ??If yes, then your mandirs are next target.



I hope these guys are caught before more damage is done.. I have faith in UK police and justice system.


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## qamar1990

Mosque Blower said:


> Instead of Petrol bombs, one should have used dynamite sticks in pre-drilled holes.Only looser will throw Petrol bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes those scums lichs deserves worse than this.They should not be allowed to erect a mosque in non-muslim country, just the Saudi style.



we are going to build mosques while you cant make nothing in our countries and you cant do nothing about it lol



Mosque Blower said:


> I didn't advise to throw it, just put it into the drilled holes of pillars and there you go just after igniting the charge ....



somebody need to stick a dynamite stick up your *** that would be the best

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## A.Rafay

Mosque Blower said:


> I didn't advise to throw it, just put it into the drilled holes of pillars and there you go just after igniting the charge ....



Yea totally feel free to blow a couple of mosques mosque blower!


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## qamar1990

Mosque Blower said:


> Are you indo ??If yes, then your mandirs are next target.


 @mods
@WebMaster
@Aeronaut 
@nuclearpak

please ban this piece of sh it

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## qamar1990

Mosque Blower said:


> Why don' you give a shot ??
> Afraid ??



trust me if i had known you in real life i would have done much worse.

why dont you post your info on here since you seem so brave, even fb

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## Safriz

Mosque Blower said:


> May Your Allah grant your wish very soon.Every Islamic body will be razed down.



Like I said..
try it...
we Muslims aren't cowards and know well how to defend our religious places...
easy to issue threats while hiding behind your computer.

I ask mods to pass on this person's IP address to me..and if he is in UK ..I will do my best to make sure police knocks his door...

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## qamar1990

Mosque Blower said:


> I am not retarded like you.
> 
> 
> 
> You are brave ,only to blow innocent people beyond that you are......



your a coward lol

thats my real pic with my real city.

about bout you do the same. lets see how brave you are.

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## Safriz

Mosque Blower said:


> I am not retarded like you.
> 
> 
> 
> You are brave ,only to blow innocent people beyond that you are......



well I have taken screen shots of your clear threats..
If you are in UK....and your IP gets traced...we will see who is brave and who is an idiot

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## jbond197

Safriz said:


> well I have taken screen shots of your clear threats..
> If you are in UK....and your IP gets traced...we will see who is brave and who is an idiot



After Muslims killed an innocent British soldier in such an heinous way, such emotional reactions on interwebz is expected. Nobody gonna do anything on your complaints. This is cycle of hate. You start it and it will get to you sooner or later.

When I read the news, I felt terrible and I don't expect britons to forget it so easily.

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## Safriz

jbond197 said:


> After Muslims killed an innocent British soldier in such an heinous way, such emotional reactions on interwebz is expected. Nobody gonna do anything on your complaints. This is cycle of hate. You start it and it will get to you sooner or later.



oh shut up...terrorist sympathizer.... 
Threatening to bomb a public place is intent of terrorism....
and illegal in UK.
I don't know about Hindustan...

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## jbond197

Safriz said:


> oh shut up...terrorist sympathizer....
> Threatening to bomb a public place is intent of terrorism....
> and illegal in UK.
> I don't know about Hindustan...



Wow, now a Pakistani calling others Terrorist sympathizer. That does not even sound funny. 

You being from the lands exporting terrorism world over must know well that acts like killing British soldier on British street is called an act of terror not some annonymous rants on interwebz. But anyways you can very well try your luck..

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## Safriz

jbond197 said:


> Wow, now a Pakistani calling others Terrorist sympathizer. That does not even sound funny.
> 
> You being from the lands exporting terrorism world over must know well that acts like killing British soldier on British street is called an act of terror not some annonymous rants on interwebz. But anyways you can very well try your luck..



Issuing bobmbing threats on internet is still classsed 
as intent of terrorism and since police forces have to spend much time and money on picking up brains after such incident...they find it cheaper and less resource intensive to act preemptively and that's the reason such reports are taken far more seriously than your little Indian mind can think.

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## qamar1990

jbond197 said:


> Wow, now a Pakistani calling others Terrorist sympathizer. That does not even sound funny.
> 
> You being from the lands exporting terrorism world over must know well that acts like killing British soldier on British street is called an act of terror not some annonymous rants on interwebz. But anyways you can very well try your luck..




you should stay out of this unless you want to take this to another level

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## Fekay

Yes, way to lend justifications to attacks on innocent bystanders who have no end in this extremist v extremist hate war. You people are usually quick to brush people as J4hadi apologists but here you are on the opposite side of the same coin.

oh sweet irony

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## Safriz

@jbond197
dekha....bhagaa diyaa naa salay ko daraa kay..
itni sii baat tujhay samajh nahi aa rahi thii

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## qamar1990

Safriz said:


> @jbond197
> dekha....bhagaa diyaa naa salay ko daraa kay..
> itni sii baat tujhay samajh nahi aa rahi thii



benchod sala indian tha.

baat kar mod say kay uski ip address tujhe dehein

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## Yogi

Sad incident...Intolerance against Muslims is on a rise in the western world due to deeds of some Muslim bad apples.

N unfortunately i don't see this hatred going down anytime in near future...

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## Contrarian

Safriz said:


> oh shut up...terrorist sympathizer....
> Threatening to bomb a public place is intent of terrorism....
> and illegal in UK.
> I don't know about Hindustan...



I see what you are doing there. Using phrases hurled at Muslims back at others 

On topic .. I hope no one was injured. Better policing is required there.

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## Safriz

Yogi said:


> Sad incident...Intolerance against Muslims is on a rise in the western world due to deeds of some Muslim bad apples.
> 
> N unfortunately i don't see this hatred going down anytime in near future...



lol..
its funny how you guys throw all blame on Muslims..
terrorism..Muslims fault..
non Muslims threats Muslims...again Muslim fault..
Muslim countries attacked...well again..Muslims fault..

no wonder many of us don't care anymore what you lot say as you have been radicalized against us and whatever you say will br against us.

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## Yogi

Safriz said:


> lol..
> its funny how you guys throw all blame on Muslims..
> terrorism..Muslims fault..
> non Muslims threats Muslims...again Muslim fault..
> Muslim countries attacked...well again..Muslims fault..
> 
> no wonder many of us don't care anymore what you lot say as you have been radicalized against us and whatever you say will be against us.
> Your hate strengthens my brleif in Islam as we had been told centuries ago that you non Muslims cannot be our well wishers...just allies with mutual interest...at times.


I wasn't supporting such incidents, only saying thats its a tit for tat kinda attack by the western stereotypes for British soldier killing incident.

Now did i said something thats not true...

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## EagleEyes

jbond197 said:


> After Muslims killed an innocent British soldier in such an heinous way, such emotional reactions on interwebz is expected. Nobody gonna do anything on your complaints. This is cycle of hate. You start it and it will get to you sooner or later.
> 
> When I read the news, I felt terrible and I don't expect britons to forget it so easily.



Last time i checked that guy wasn't a Muslim.

Now you are supporting the act of bombing a religious place? Unfortunately, for you the British dumb ***** are not equivalent of Hindu terror in India.

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## Roybot

WebMaster said:


> *Last time i checked that guy wasn't a Muslim.*
> 
> Now you are supporting the act of bombing a religious place? Unfortunately, for you the British dumb ***** are not equivalent of Hindu terror in India.



Yeah he was

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## Echo_419

First the Muslims kill Brits now Brits are taking revenge 
Simple as that 
As long as one side decides to stop this is gonna go on & on 

Muslim community should condem this in masses
Hold funeral prayers etc 
To tell the Ordinary Brit That he has nothing to do with this & only extremist on both sides are doing this only then total Peace & Harmony can exist on both sides


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## jbond197

WebMaster said:


> Last time i checked that guy wasn't a Muslim.
> 
> Now you are supporting the act of bombing a religious place? Unfortunately, for you the British dumb ***** are not equivalent of Hindu terror in India.



Unfortunately, the guy was a recent convert.

I never supported anything. I was telling there would be hate filled reactions after the incident. It may be unfortunate but that's what there to come and no where meant I supported those reactions or an attack on religious place.


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## Safriz

Echo_419 said:


> First the Muslims kill Brits now Brits are taking revenge
> Simple as that
> As long as one side decides to stop this is gonna go on & on
> 
> Muslim community should condem this in masses
> Hold funeral prayers etc
> To tell the Ordinary Brit That he has nothing to do with this & only extremist on both sides are doing this only then total Peace & Harmony can exist on both sides



ERRRr.....
The terrorist guy said exactly the same...
His video can be seen...he said he s taking revenge of wars waged muslim countries....
So congratulations....your statement matches with the terrorist..
Simple as that...

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## Aslan

Echo_419 said:


> First the Muslims kill Brits now Brits are taking revenge
> Simple as that
> As long as one side decides to stop this is gonna go on & on
> 
> Muslim community should condem this in masses
> Hold funeral prayers etc
> To tell the Ordinary Brit That he has nothing to do with this & only extremist on both sides are doing this only then total Peace & Harmony can exist on both sides



You yindus really come in with stupid installed dont you, well lets say that the british soldier was killed because of a murder of a 75 year old man by a racist british white man. How about that retardo. And if you want proof, the link is posted on the first page, and also I started a thread under the title selected terrorism, and you will see how people dont care when its not a white man dead. So really kiss as much bumb as u want to, but when u are done no one will really give a chit about u either.

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## Cherokee

Aslan said:


> You yindus really come in with stupid installed dont you, well lets say that the british soldier was killed because of a murder of a 75 year old man by a racist british white man. How about that retardo. And if you want proof, the link is posted on the first page, and also I started a thread under the title selected terrorism, and you will see how people dont care when its not a white man dead. So really kiss as much bumb as u want to, but when u are done no one will really give a chit about u either.



How much oxygen did you carry to reach so deep in soup of codswallop ??

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## Aslan

Cherokee said:


> How much oxygen did you carry to reach so deep in soup of codswallop ??



Another yinduu, another garbage. Carry on dude you guys are the officially the unofficial spokes persons for the terrorists.

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## Cherokee

Aslan said:


> Another yinduu, another garbage. Carry on dude you guys are the officially the unofficial spokes persons for the terrorists.



Spokes Persons . waah Aslan waah . Mazza aa gaya  . 

And by the way i am another "yinduu" , you are just another garbage , whom nobody gives a penny under Horseshyt .

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## Spring Onion

Echo_419 said:


> *First the Muslims kill Brits now Brits are taking revenge
> Simple as that *As long as one side decides to stop this is gonna go on & on
> 
> Muslim community should condem this in masses
> Hold funeral prayers etc
> To tell the Ordinary Brit That he has nothing to do with this & only extremist on both sides are doing this only then total Peace & Harmony can exist on both sides



crusdes are going on.

Its all about revenge by everybody so STOP blaming faith.

why you use Brits Vs Muslim?

why NOT Muslim killed a Christian and now Christians taking revenge?

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## Aslan

Cherokee said:


> Spokes Persons . waah Aslan waah . Mazza aa gaya  .
> 
> And by the way i am another "yinduu" , you are just another garbage , whom nobody gives a penny under Horseshyt .



Apparently you did, didnt you. Well you replied back to me thinking I was important enough to merit a reply. Now what does that make you horse chit or just the gas coming out of it. Now stop wasting me time eh, go back to defending the white man.

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## Stealth

Echo_419 said:


> First the Muslims kill Brits now Brits are taking revenge
> Simple as that
> As long as one side decides to stop this is gonna go on & on
> 
> Muslim community should condem this in masses
> Hold funeral prayers etc
> To tell the Ordinary Brit That he has nothing to do with this & only extremist on both sides are doing this only then total Peace & Harmony can exist on both sides




AMERICAN kill thousands millions of Muslims around the world and when Muslims are taking revenge you guyz start "oh TERRORISM" ***** ** *****!




jbond197 said:


> After Muslims killed an innocent British soldier in such an heinous way, such emotional reactions on interwebz is expected. Nobody gonna do anything on your complaints. This is cycle of hate. You start it and it will get to you sooner or later.
> 
> When I read the news, I felt terrible and I don't expect britons to forget it so easily.



When US kill thousands of Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and supporting terrorism in Pakistan... "SUCH EMOTIONAL REACTIONS EXPECTED"

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## Cherokee

Aslan said:


> Apparently you did, didnt you. Well you replied back to me thinking I was important enough to merit a reply. Now what does that make you horse chit or just the gas coming out of it. Now stop wasting me time eh, go back to defending the white man.



Go and Pray . Don't waste your time on internet .

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## Safriz

Cherokee said:


> Go and Pray . Don't waste your time on internet .



Molvi cherokee


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## Spring Onion

The funniest thing i find that more than Britishers we see Bharatis aka Indians jumping on such news and supporting such incidents whenever there is Muslim reference attached to it

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## Cherokee

Safriz said:


> Molvi cherokee



You also Pray , Safriz bhai or i will find you and Punish you


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## flamer84

qamar1990 said:


> we are going to build mosques while you cant make nothing in our countries and you cant do nothing about it lol



I'm sure that this kind of attitude is going to help 

On Topic: It was inevitable that such things will happen,idiots going after innocents,on both sides,if those baboons throwing petrol bombs at regular mosques wanted to do something for their cause why not go after that Choudary fellow and his lot? Now there's a guy who deserves a petrol bomb up his *** and not the local mosque.

Truly,stupidity and hate mongering has no ethnic or religious backround.


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## Ayush

Spring Onion said:


> The funniest thing i find that more than Britishers we see Bharatis aka Indians jumping on such news and supporting such incidents whenever there is Muslim reference attached to it



coz we are allies and most of us are non muslims..just how u support china,inspite of how they treat your uhgur *brothers*



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dogs are loyal creatures.



many of u are chinese cheerleaders..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ayush said:


> many of u are chinese cheerleaders..



Lol... we dont justify anything...how many Pakistanis do you see in vietnam or ASEAN related threads?............ while indians sure love their colonial masters.... and justify shyt even when they are wrong and in matters that dont concern them..

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## Ayush

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol... we dont justify anything... while indians sure* love *their colonial masters.



support...coz they are our allies..not our fault if pak doesnt have positive reputation in the west..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ayush said:


> support...coz they are our allies..not our fault if pak doesnt have positive reputation in the west..



Inferiority complex and colonial hangover..

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## Ayush

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Inferiority complex and colonial hangover..



successful diplomacy and independent foreign policy..unlike u..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ayush said:


> successful diplomacy and independent foreign policy..unlike u..



Sucking upto criminals = diplomacy and foriegn policy? great.... indian trolls on PDF justifying attacks on a mosque = diplomacy? good luck with tht.

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## third eye

Developereo said:


> Of course, but I am waiting for the usual suspects to insinuate that the "Muzlooms" deserve this.
> 
> *When terrorism occurs against Westerners, they blame Muslims; when it occurs against Muslims, they still blame Muslims.*



How often are they wrong ?

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## Spring Onion

Ayush said:


> coz we are allies and most of us are non muslims..just how u support china,inspite of how they treat your uhgur *brothers*
> 
> :



More than Britishers you the so-called self-styled ally is active 

whereas the Britishers are condemning this attack. it shows you are paraee shadi main rajiv dewana

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## Ayush

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sucking upto criminals = diplomacy and foriegn policy? great.... indian trolls on PDF justifying attacks on a mosque = diplomacy? good luck with tht.



we never justified..i quoted her coz she was questioning our support for the british,and quoted u for obvious reasons..

and about the attack,of course i dont support it,but then you reap what you sow..and this goes for both muslims and the west



Spring Onion said:


> More than Britishers you the so-called self-styled ally is active
> 
> whereas the Britishers are condemning this attack. it shows you are paraee shadi main rajiv dewana



m not supporting this attack,i gave u the reason why we support them in general..just how u support ur allies..

and y u just callin them brother,i havent seen one pakistani condemning their plight in china,whereas if somethin happens in india.....

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## cyphercide

Spring Onion said:


> The funniest thing i find that more than Britishers we see Bharatis aka Indians jumping on such news and supporting such incidents whenever there is Muslim reference attached to it



That's the funny part? You don't find it funny that a British Muslim views his own country and military as the enemy and some desert folks he's never even seen in real life as his brothers and sisters? When you have no trouble comprehending that Muslims can rally in common purpose regardless of nationality, why the amazement over non-Muslims doing the same in utter contempt of Islamic terrorism? It was Anton Chekhov, an astute observer of the human condition, who noted;



> Love, friendship, respect, do not unite people as much as a common hatred for something.

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## Spring Onion

cyphercide said:


> That's the funny part? You don't find it funny that a British Muslim views his own country and military as the enemy and some desert folks he's never even seen in real life as his brothers and sisters? When you have no trouble comprehending that Muslims can rally in common purpose regardless of nationality, why the amazement over non-Muslims doing the same in utter contempt of Islamic terrorism? It was Anton Chekhov, an astute observer of the human condition, who noted;



i find it funniest that non brits aka Indians are moaning more than his own country 

Let his own country deal with him according to the law of the country. 

The funniest thing is that his own country condmned the uncalled for attack on a Mosque that has nothing to do with his act whereas the Indians find something to get happy over.

funny your hate against Muslims make you to believe in self style happiness

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## cyphercide

Spring Onion said:


> i find it funniest that non brits aka Indians are moaning more than his own country
> 
> Let his own country deal with him according to the law of the country.
> 
> The funniest thing is that his own country condmned the uncalled for attack on a Mosque that has nothing to do with his act whereas the Indians find something to get happy over.
> 
> funny your hate against Muslims make you to believe in self style happiness



Indians are victims of the global scourge known as Islamic terrorism too. We are well aware of the sufferings it brings to society. How about Muslims internalize the message of respecting the country that feeds them before going all emotional over some desert Haji with an RPG, eh? Only then can we discuss relative hypocrisies.

And why would I be "self style happy" or whatever it is that you meant over mosques being attacked? It's the ideology that I despise, not the real estate.

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## cyphercide

Safriz said:


> I ask mods to pass on this person's IP address to me..and if he is in UK ..I will do my best to make sure police knocks his door...




For real? Aren't you the same bloke who defended the attack(Woolwich) few days back?

Didn't you refer to 14 year olds as being sluts who deliberately wear provocative clothing to "honey trap"(your term, not mine) older men?

You sure on wanting to contact the cops?

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## Gandhi G in da house

Condemnable incident . 

But this was coming after what happened to that soldier.

UK Muslim Groups Condemn Killing Of Soldier | Leadership Newspaper NG

Muslim groups in the United Kingdom (UK) yesterday, condemned the killing of a soldier in a London street by Mujaheed Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, who claimed they were avenging Muslim deaths in other countries


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## illusion8

The other worrying part could be Sikhs and Gurudwara's might come under attack thinking them to be Muslim.

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## Gandhi G in da house

The murderer was also a friend and follower of British Pakistani Anjem Choudhary

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## livingdead

illusion8 said:


> The other worrying part could be Sikhs and Gurudwara's might come under attack thinking them to be Muslim.



all outsiders will face attack, be hindu, muslim, sikh or atheist....

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## illusion8

hinduguy said:


> all outsiders will face attack, be hindu, muslim, sikh or atheist....



????? 

Why??


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## livingdead

illusion8 said:


> ?????
> 
> Why??



nobody asks your belief before attacking... about religious places, those who attack dont know the difference between temple, gurdwara and mosque..

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## illusion8

hinduguy said:


> nobody asks your belief before attacking... about religious places, those who attack dont know the difference between temple, gurdwara and mosque..



They will come under attack thinking them to be Muslims is what I said. Similar to what happened in the US after 9/11.


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## livingdead

illusion8 said:


> They will come under attack thinking them to be Muslims is what I said. Similar to what happened in the US after 9/11.



no, uk is different from US, sikhs are well known here. But for arsonists all places are same.


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## illusion8

hinduguy said:


> no, uk is different from US, sikhs are well known here. But for arsonists all places are same.





> British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Monday condemned attacks on the British Sikh community in the wake of the September 11 attacks after meeting community leaders in Downing Street.
> 
> The delegation, led by Indarjit Singh, director of the Network of Sikh Organisations, offered support for the war on terrorism during the meeting.
> 
> *The prime minister was told that Sikhs have been the victims of abuse and violence after being confused with members of Afghanistan's Taliban.*
> 
> His official spokesman later said: "We totally condemn the abuse and attacks on the Sikh community.
> 
> "Preventing these crimes and catching those responsible is a high priority for the police."
> 
> Downing Street said the policy of targeted military action was in line with the Sikh belief that evil should be confronted.
> 
> The spokesman added: "We welcome messages of support from Sikh leaders on behalf of their community."



Blair condemns attacks on British Sikh community


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## dravidianhero

I am fed up with muslims trying to defend their terrorist attacks saying many muslims are being killed in afghan and iraq by US.who is reponsible for tht?ur own muslim brothers who use citizens as their shields by hiding in between them.Any army would be forced to drone the entire place to dig out those terrorists.There was a time just a decade ago when Osama was the hero of almost every muslim.they used to cheer for him after friday praters in hyd.muslims became an object of hate thru their actions.

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## assassin123

these types of attacks will only deteriorate the relations between muslims and western world, i hope the problems will not further increase in england and lead to more bloodshed there


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## dravidianhero

believe me every muslim i knew was so proud of OBL tht he did an act like 9/11 on america.they used to say tht many ppl were being killed in palestine by israel and israel was being helped by USA and so it was justifiable for osama to carry out such acts.It was only when the attacks of muslim terrorists became intensified thru out the world tht these muslims stopped praising osama in open bcoz they felt islam was getting bad name.even today u wont find muslims coming out in large numbers to condemnterrorism



assassin123 said:


> these types of attacks will only deteriorate the relations between muslim countries and western world, i hope the problems will not further increase in england and lead to more bloodshed there



ur entirely ignorant.arab countries dont give a sht abt other muslim countries.muslim countries are not one united group.every country is worried abt its economic development and the relations between nations will be on tht basis only not on religion

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## assassin123

dravidianhero said:


> believe me every muslim i knew was so proud of OBL tht he did an act like 9/11 on america.they used to say tht many ppl were being killed in palestine by israel and israel was being helped by USA and so it was justifiable for osama to carry out such acts.It was only when the attacks of muslim terrorists became intensified thru out the world tht these muslims stopped praising osama in open bcoz they felt islam was getting bad name.even today u wont find muslims coming out in large numbers to condemnterrorism
> 
> 
> 
> ur entirely ignorant.arab countries dont give a sht abt other muslim countries.muslim countries are not one united group.every country is worried abt its economic development and the relations between nations will be on tht basis only not on religion


by western world i meant the EU & USA.


----------



## UKBengali

Moronic Indians coming here and saying backlash against Muslims who had no part to play in the attack is somehow justified.

They regularly get beaten up by whites in the UK and other Western countries but they just cannot get over their hatred of Islam.

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## temujin

nick_indian said:


> Condemnable incident .
> 
> But this was coming after what happened to that soldier.
> 
> UK Muslim Groups Condemn Killing Of Soldier | Leadership Newspaper NG
> 
> Muslim groups in the United Kingdom (UK) yesterday, condemned the killing of a soldier in a London street by Mujaheed Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, who claimed they were avenging Muslim deaths in other countries



The one positive to come out of all this is that, in a break from the past, UK Muslim groups have been unanimous in their condemnation of this appalling atrocity.

Oh wait...

Disgracful interview - advocating surrender to al-Qeada after Brit soldier murder - YouTube


The geezer must be regarded as fairly benign since he is a Beeb favourite and usually among the first to be trotted out when something of this nature happens. He belongs to a 'moderate and mainstream' Islamic outfit and it is likely his views represent those of many in the Muslim community

I am in no way justifying the mosque attacks earlier today but reactions from key opinion makers within the Muslim community which seek to excuse terrorist actions of their co-religionists do serve to inflame passions among many, which is subsequently exploited by far right groups.

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## Gandhi G in da house

UKBengali said:


> Moronic Indians coming here and saying backlash against Muslims who had no part to play in the attack is somehow justified.
> 
> They regularly get beaten up by whites in the UK and other Western countries but they just cannot get over their hatred of Islam.




The two murderers were muslims , that has already been settled and they did it in the name of Islam. They were shouting Allh Hu Akbar while doing it. These things will continue till the time muslims like you are in denial mode.

Btw, majority of Indians are condemning , not justifying this incident.

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## Vinod2070

Regrettable incident but not entirely unpredictable.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...oustide-barracks-woolwich-12.html#post4320621



> News are coming in off Edl attacking Mosques.... (not sure though).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont think EDL have that much balls
Click to expand...


It is not about balls. It is about people finally getting impatient with the constant attacks on them by ungrateful people.



Safriz said:


> lol
> Try it..........
> and we will see who gets drilled by what



Your predictions are badly off today. Not your day perhaps. 

Regretting that "balls" comment now? You seem to have invited it all.

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## Mattrixx

Racists shown their true face.


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## Safriz

Vinod2070 said:


> Regrettable incident but not entirely unpredictable.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...oustide-barracks-woolwich-12.html#post4320621
> 
> 
> 
> It is not about balls. It is about people finally getting impatient with the constant attacks on them by ungrateful people.
> 
> 
> 
> Your predictions are badly off today. Not your day perhaps.
> 
> Regretting that "balls" comment now? You seem to have invited it all.



Lol...
Some teenagers running away after throwing a petrol bomb isnt called bravery...
We had similar attacks on our mosque in Manchester long before this incident when some delusional racists sneak in smash some windows and disappear.....
So nothing new here...


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## Vinod2070

Safriz said:


> Lol...
> Some teenagers running away after throwing a petrol bomb isnt called bravery...
> We had similar attacks on our mosque in Manchester long before this incident when some delusional racists sneak in smash some windows and disappear.....
> So nothing new here...



OK, so why the balls comment there that you made?

You seem to suggest that you would consider it bravery when the Britons escalate things more?

Or would real bravery be not to get provoked and retaliate against innocents?


----------



## Developereo

third eye said:


> How often are they wrong ?



When the attack is done by someone else, as in this case, and they blame Muslims because they "had it coming", then they are wrong.

The people in this thread are no different than the ones who justified 9/11 or Mumbai.

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## Fekay

The only thing worse then heinous criminals are their apologists.


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## Dubious

jbond197 said:


> After Muslims killed an innocent British soldier in such an heinous way, such emotional reactions on interwebz is expected. Nobody gonna do anything on your complaints. This is cycle of hate. You start it and it will get to you sooner or later.
> 
> When I read the news, I felt terrible and I don't expect britons to forget it so easily.



What about this 1:

Can I say WEST asked for it or started it? 



Fekay said:


> There was also a murder in Birmingham of 75 year old Pakistani Muslim male before the woolwich incident. Surprisingly I've just heard about it now due to lack of coverage.
> *
> Birmingham murder may have been racially motivated, say police
> Detectives appeal for witnesses after Mohammed Saleem, 75 old, was stabbed to death as he returned home from local mosque*
> Birmingham murder may have been racially motivated, say police | UK news | The Guardian





Safriz said:


> oh shut up...terrorist sympathizer....
> Threatening to bomb a public place is intent of terrorism....
> and *illegal in UK.*
> I don't know about Hindustan...


 @Safriz Many who worship the West dont even know the basics of the Western policies....


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## Dubious

jbond197 said:


> Wow, now a Pakistani *calling others Terrorist sympathizer*. That does not even sound funny.
> .


 @jbond197 well, you sympathized an act of terror...what other label do you want?!

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## Trisonics

I'm going to introduce a theory that could be plausibility. What if the Mosque faked the incident to gather sympathy while playing the victim card? afterall such theories float around for any terrorist attack. Interesting to see ho many will buy this one? any guesses ;-)


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## Dubious

Contrarian said:


> I see what you are doing there. Using phrases hurled at Muslims back at others
> .


 @Contrarian how does it feel?


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## Fekay

Trisonics said:


> I'm going to introduce a theory that could be plausibility. What if the Mosque faked the incident to gather sympathy while playing the victim card? afterall such theories float around for any terrorist attack. Interesting to see ho many will buy this one? any guesses ;-)



Interesting. So to get back at the tin foil club, you decide join them.


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## Trisonics

Interesting indeed. I merely pointed to a possibility. Comprehending beyond what is written is reading between the lines.


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## Fekay

Trisonics said:


> Interesting indeed. I merely pointed to a possibility. Comprehending beyond what is written is reading between the lines.



And comprehension beyond that is what we call 'understanding the motive'. In which case, your motive was to reciprocate the conspiracy theorists by introducing a conspiracy, Right? 

Hence my response: "So to get back at the tin foil club, you decide join them."

So not did I just read your "between the lines" but I also read you.


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## A1Kaid

Ayush said:


> successful diplomacy and independent foreign policy..unlike u..



You have proven yourself to be a two face despicable Indian. Then again you Indians have always loved your British masters.


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## Trisonics

Fekay said:


> And comprehension beyond that is what we call 'understanding the motive'. In which case, your motive was to reciprocate the conspiracy theorists by introducing a conspiracy, Right?
> 
> Hence my response: "So to get back at the tin foil club, you decide join them."
> 
> So not did I just read your "between the lines" but I also read you.



Good try. The only part you guessed right was that I did have a motive, which was to point out the hypocrisy of some tagging terrorist-incidents caused by Muslims as "conspiracy". Like a fish to the bait, you were quick to include me in a "tin foil club" but forgot to rub off the "hypocrite" writing on your forehead by not voicing the same opinion that you did here on some other threads.


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## Fekay

Trisonics said:


> Good try. The only part you guessed right was that I did have a motive, which was to point out the hypocrisy of some tagging terrorist-incidents caused by Muslims as "conspiracy". Like a fish to the bait, you were quick to include me in a "tin foil club" but forgot to rub off the "hypocrite" writing on your forehead by not voicing the same opinion that you did here on some other threads.



So your logic being that unless I have established my position in every thread against conspiracy theorists, I am therefore a hypocrite? Is that logic to you? 

Sorry to burst your bubble but I've never condoned conspiracy theorists. And since that is my opinion, it doesn't need your approval to hold true. And I included you in the tin foil club because you took the initiative to bring in that angle.


----------



## Contrarian

Talon said:


> @Contrarian how does it feel?



Funny and out of sync with reality.

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## Ayush

A1Kaid said:


> You have proven yourself to be a two face *despicable* Indian. Then again you Indians have always loved your British masters.



the world knows some other country by that name..stop your B.S.

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## UKBengali

nick_indian said:


> The two murderers were muslims , that has already been settled and they did it in the name of Islam. They were shouting Allh Hu Akbar while doing it. These things will continue till the time muslims like you are in denial mode.
> 
> Btw, majority of Indians are condemning , not justifying this incident.



Let them do it "in the name of Islam".

They were not acting on behalf of anyone else but themselves.

All I see is that a lot of Indians are coming on here and trying to justify attacks on people that had nothing to do with this incident.


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## Gandhi G in da house

UKBengali said:


> Let them do it "in the name of Islam".
> 
> They were not acting on behalf of anyone else but themselves.
> 
> *All I see is that a lot of Indians are coming on here and trying to justify attacks on people that had nothing to do with this incident*.



You re seeing it all wrong. Indians are saying this is wrong but unavoidable due to all the anger in Britian.

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## UKBengali

nick_indian said:


> You re seeing it all wrong. Indians are saying this is wrong but *unavoidable* due to all the anger in Britian.



See, that word "unavoidable" suggests that somehow it is justified as retaliation.

Of course people would be angry when they see someone, who has been given a much better life here in the UK than they would have back in Nigeria, turning on them and slaughtering a soldier in a street in their capital city.

However, it is completely unjustified for there to be any "retaliation" against ordinary Muslims who had nothing to do with this and find this attack just as abhorrent as anyone else.


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## SURYA-1

A1Kaid said:


> You have proven yourself to be a two face despicable Indian. Then again you Indians have always loved your British masters.







Ayush said:


> the world knows some other country by that name..stop your B.S.









Source ::GlobeScan - Views of China and India Slide While UK

Now he will say it's propaganda since it shows Pakistan in bad light.

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## Gandhi G in da house

UKBengali said:


> See, that word "unavoidable" suggests that somehow it is justified as retaliation.
> 
> Of course people would be angry when they see someone, who has been given a much better life here in the UK than they would have back in Nigeria, turning on them and slaughtering a soldier in a street in their capital city.
> 
> However, it is completely unjustified for there to be any "retaliation" against ordinary Muslims who had nothing to do with this and find this attack just as abhorrent as anyone else.



unavoidable and justified are two different things.

Here's an example-

Collaboration of local Indians made the British rule in India unavoidable. But , it most certainly did not make it justified. I hope you get the point of the Indians now.


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## flamer84

UKBengali said:


> See, that word "unavoidable" suggests that somehow it is justified as retaliation.



No! "unavoidable" suggest that it's human nature to have a backlash when people feel threathened.Heck, in some parts of the world people take to the streets to kill/burn/riot after someone a continent away draws a cartoon and it puzzles how the british can go into a hate frenzy after one of their own gets butchered in the street by a terrorist?

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## SURYA-1

UKBengali said:


> See, that word "unavoidable" suggests that somehow it is justified as retaliation.
> 
> Of course people would be angry when they see someone, who has been given a much better life here in the UK than they would have back in Nigeria, turning on them and slaughtering a soldier in a street in their capital city.
> 
> However, it is completely unjustified for there to be any "retaliation" against ordinary Muslims who had nothing to do with this and find this attack just as abhorrent as anyone else.



Tone of you guys changes according to situation ,isn't it ??

I know you are one of the Jamatis who are hell bent on cleaning Hindus from BD on the pretext of Blasphemy laws.


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## UKBengali

flamer84 said:


> No! "unavoidable" suggest that it's human nature to have a backlash when people feel threathened.Heck, in some parts of the world people take to the streets to kill/burn/riot after someone a continent away draws a cartoon and it puzzles how the british can go into a hate frenzy after one of their own gets butchered in the street by a terrorist?



People do have free choice or do you think that we are all robots here!

A civilised person finds a better way to channel their outrage at something like this than to resort to violence and try to hurt people who had nothing to do with this.

No law in the world recognises "collective responsibility". You are judged for your actions and no-one else's. Like a father is not sent to jail if their son murders someone, then not a single Muslim is in anyway responsible for what those two did last week in the streets of London.

Let me turn this around. There are regular killings of minorities in the streets of Europe, does this in any way make it ok for a a gang of minorities to go and attack any random white person they come across in "retaliation"?



SURYA-1 said:


> Tone of you guys changes according to situation ,isn't it ??
> 
> I know you are one of the Jamatis who are hell bent on cleaning Hindus from BD on the pretext of Blasphemy laws.



Yes, I am a religious bigot who wants nothing more than BD to become a state cleansed of Hindus.

Please quote me and then we can talk further.


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## Vinod2070

Interesting to see the obsession of the usual suspects with India and Indians even in this thread and not the topic itself.

There is no question that the reaction to the series of barbaric acts by Islamist terrorists has been quite muted so far compared to the provocations. It is not only about the terrorists but also the criminals including those that target native women as just meat.

The Muslim communities will need to make efforts to get rid of these criminals and terrorists more vigorously. Standing on the sidelines will not work for them in the long run.


----------



## Dubious

Contrarian said:


> Funny and out of sync with reality.


 @Contrarian
Well then open your eyes as you are on a thread where a masjid was attacked...IF you can't show sympathy for whoeever was attacked...Mind you people going for worship not attacking others on the street...Not a Birmingham masjid....Sooo....If you can justify this, it literally means you need to check your idea and thinking


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## Last Hope

The surprise fact is that, the murder of soldier came as a revenge when a 75 year-old Pakistani Muslim man was killed when he left a Mosque. He was cold-blooded killed by multiple stabs of a machete, when he was walking home using his walking-stick. 

Later, Muslims get attacked and sore-losers justify the act of terrorism by linking it with murder of soldier, which could be linked with murder of a weak Muslim. Oh the double-standards, they never fail to amuse me.



SURYA-1 said:


> Source ::GlobeScan - Views of China and India Slide While UK
> 
> Now he will say it's propaganda since it shows Pakistan in bad light.



I am confused. Either one of us are wrong.






http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

Based on ground realities, I can say with confidence that it isn't me what is wrong.


----------



## Vinod2070

The murderer clearly linked his act to attacks on Muslim countries and not to any crimes within UK!

Why try to spin things?

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## SURYA-1

Last Hope said:


> The surprise fact is that, the murder of soldier came as a revenge when a 75 year-old Pakistani Muslim man was killed when he left a Mosque. He was cold-blooded killed by multiple stabs of a machete, when he was walking home using his walking-stick.
> 
> Later, Muslims get attacked and sore-losers justify the act of terrorism by linking it with murder of soldier, which could be linked with murder of a weak Muslim. Oh the double-standards, they never fail to amuse me.
> 
> 
> 
> I am confused. Either one of us are wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A fascinating map of the world&#8217;s most and least racially tolerant countries
> 
> Based on ground realities, I can say with confidence that it isn't me what is wrong.



You need to upgrade your english vocab.Hate and Racial are two different words with different meanings.



UKBengali said:


> People do have free choice or do you think that we are all robots here!
> 
> A civilised person finds a better way to channel their outrage at something like this than to resort to violence and try to hurt people who had nothing to do with this.
> 
> No law in the world recognises "collective responsibility". You are judged for your actions and no-one else's. Like a father is not sent to jail if their son murders someone, then not a single Muslim is in anyway responsible for what those two did last week in the streets of London.
> Yes, I am a religious bigot who wants nothing more than BD to become a state cleansed of Hindus.
> 
> Please quote me and then we can talk further.



Quoted you , now start further discussion.


----------



## Contrarian

Talon said:


> @Contrarian
> Well then open your eyes as you are on a thread where a masjid was attacked...IF you can't show sympathy for whoeever was attacked...Mind you people going for worship not attacking others on the street...Not a Birmingham masjid....Sooo....If you can justify this, it literally means you need to check your idea and thinking


I don't think anyone..much less me is saying that such attacks are acceptable.


----------



## UKBengali

SURYA-1 said:


> Quoted you , now start further discussion.



That is not what I meant.

You made a claim that I am a "Jamati" who would like to cleanse BD of Hindus.

Please back this up with a post of mine where I have ever made any comment to back this assertion of yours.

If you cannot then we have nothing further to discuss.

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## illusion8

A video of a speech given by Michael Adebolajo at a Muslims Against Crusades rally.
He has been described by his mentors Anjem Choudary and Omar Bakri Muhammad as quiet, shy and pleasant.

Speech includes quotes against the Pope and the Catholic Church and predicts a Wold Wide Islamic Caliphate who will convert, subjugate or kill all those who resist. 

Selected Quotes 

If you embrace Islam then you will be safe from the anger of the Mujadhideen. 
If you don't we give you the threat of the almighty.
When we conquer the Vatican maybe if the pope embraces Islam, we will make him governor of the Vatican. 



The Very Quiet and Shy Mujahid Adebolajo - YouTube

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## Hellraiser007

Safriz said:


> oh shut up...terrorist sympathizer....
> Threatening to bomb a public place is intent of terrorism....
> and illegal in UK.
> I don't know about Hindustan...



You cannot do any thing in UK, these incidents are designed to stop Islam from spreading in Europe and to drive Muslims away from Europe.

In the words of neocons , the purification of their lands had started.


----------



## Hellraiser007

WebMaster said:


> Last time i checked that guy wasn't a Muslim.
> 
> Now you are supporting the act of bombing a religious place? Unfortunately, for you the British dumb ***** are not equivalent of Hindu terror in India.



The suspect is a black Islamic guy.


----------



## Ayush

WebMaster said:


> L*ast time i checked *that guy wasn't a Muslim.
> 
> Now you are supporting the act of bombing a religious place? Unfortunately, for you the British dumb ***** are not equivalent of Hindu terror in India.


check again..


----------



## indusporus

qamar1990 said:


> we are going to build mosques while you cant make nothing in our countries and you cant do nothing about it lol


and you wonder there's so much Islamophobia.


----------



## Juice

Developereo said:


> Of course, but I am waiting for the usual suspects to insinuate that the "Muzlooms" deserve this.
> 
> When terrorism occurs against Westerners, they blame Muslims; when it occurs against Muslims, they still blame Muslims.


 You mean the way Safriz supported the attacks? What are mosque doing in a Christian nation anyways?



Safriz said:


> lol
> Try it..........
> and we will see who gets drilled by what


 We have been seeing....lol....who is getting "drilled"? Why did the attacks against UK soldiers take place? Because SOMEONE is getting a drilling.

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## Juice

Stealth said:


> AMERICAN kill thousands millions of Muslims around the world and when Muslims are taking revenge you guyz start "oh TERRORISM" ***** ** *****!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When US kill thousands of Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and supporting terrorism in Pakistan... "SUCH EMOTIONAL REACTIONS EXPECTED"


 Yes, we do kill millions....next time you wanna attack us keep it in mind. You started it....we will pay you back a thousand fold.


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## qamar1990

indusporus said:


> and you wonder there's so much Islamophobia.



i never exprienced it person just on net, so im not worried lol.

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## qamar1990

Juice said:


> Yes, we do kill millions....next time you wanna attack us keep it in mind. You started it....we will pay you back a thousand fold.



your a fu cking nut job, 
its becuase people like terrorists keep attacking us. just freaking stop with the bs.
however if anybody does attack us and we know who it is, than yes without the i say send in the seals and take the bastards out.
but invading countries did us no good so far. surgical operations are the best option.

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## muse

There are many Mosques in UK - How can they all be secured?? Some sane Muslims recognize that goodwill has to be created if all are to be safe

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## indusporus

qamar1990 said:


> i never exprienced it person just on net, so im not worried lol.



if you've not already noticed, you're posting in a thread that is a discussion of the very same issue


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## Dubious

Juice said:


> *Yes, we do kill millions*....next time you wanna attack us keep it in mind. *You started it*....we will pay you back a thousand fold.



Andd we have a confession about how bloodthirsty one can get!!

No idea how WE started the Korean war, Vietnam war, Gulf war and the list goes on...

BTW, the united states hasn't won MANY wars *without foreign help*... nor fought in MANY wars *without help*.....

History of U.S. Military Interventions since 1890



indusporus said:


> if you've not already noticed, you're posting in a thread that is a discussion of the very same issue


 @indusporus there is personal experience vs internet and media blasting it to an angel that doesnt exist



Juice said:


> You mean the way Safriz supported the attacks? What are mosque doing in a Christian nation anyways?



Ahh...going back on secularism are we? Your secular views allow it!

Oh wait even those who cry it dont even know the meaning or are not practicing it!

Or just simply taking away basic rights?

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## flamer84

Talon said:


> Andd we have a confession about how bloodthirsty one can get!!
> 
> No idea how WE started the Korean war, Vietnam war, Gulf war and the list goes on...
> 
> BTW, the united states hasn't won MANY wars *without foreign help*... nor fought in MANY wars *without help*.....
> 
> History of U.S. Military Interventions since 1890
> 
> 
> @indusporus there is personal experience vs internet and media blasting it to an angel that doesnt exist
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh...going back on secularism are we? Oh wait even those who cry it dont even know the meaning or are not practicing it!
> 
> Or just simply taking away basic rights? Your secular views allow it!




The US enlist foreign help for their wars just to gain international legitimacy for their interventions,or do you think they couldn't have invaded Afghanistan without the 100 or so hungarian soldiers backing them up?

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## qamar1990

indusporus said:


> if you've not already noticed, you're posting in a thread that is a discussion of the very same issue



well sh it happens but its not as bad as people portray to be.
the hate is both ways i stay in the middle.

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## Dubious

flamer84 said:


> The US enlist foreign help for their wars just to gain international legitimacy for their interventions,or do you think they couldn't have invaded Afghanistan without the 100 or so hungarian soldiers backing them up?


 @flamer84 I doubt they could....because they are not as brave as they thump their chest even in Iraq and Afghanistan (recent wars) they sent in local help, followed by soldiers from EU countries and Oz and sent their troops last...

I heard the Germans were pissed at this ...a friend was telling...


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## qamar1990

flamer84 said:


> The US enlist foreign help for their wars just to gain international legitimacy for their interventions,or do you think they couldn't have invaded Afghanistan without the 100 or so hungarian soldiers backing them up?



don't act like your head is in you as s.
its was thousands of soldiers from all over the world besides the us.

the use could rip europe to shreds within months so ofcourse they can invade afghanistan alone.
but they just didnt want to go in alone and get all the blame lol, they wanted to share the blame.

anyways as an american i think these two wars hurt our interests more then they helped us, i know that when i visit pakistan how much i see that people hate the fact that our army is in afghanistan.

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## flamer84

Talon said:


> @flamer84 I doubt they could....because they are not as brave as they thump their chest even in Iraq and Afghanistan (recent wars) they sent in local help, followed by soldiers from EU countries and Oz and sent their troops last...
> 
> I heard the Germans were pissed at this ...a friend was telling...



I don't know if the average american soldier is braver than anyone else,i don't think so,but the americans certainly have the biggest,meanest,well oiled war machine on this planet.
Not only germans ,ALL europeans are pissed at this,it's time for us to stop acting as american puppets and sending our soldiers to wars that don't concern us.If some nations want to kill each other somewhere half away across the globe,it's their bussiness,we shouldn't be policing them,especially now when our economies are reeling.I think the mood is chanching across Europe,we're slowly distancing ourselves from the americans and their policies.

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## flamer84

qamar1990 said:


> don't act like your head is in you as s.
> its was thousands of soldiers from all over the world besides the us.
> 
> the use could rip europe to shreds within months so ofcourse they can invade afghanistan alone.
> but they just didnt want to go in alone and get all the blame lol, they wanted to share the blame.
> 
> anyways as an american i think these two wars hurt our interests more then they helped us, i know that when i visit pakistan how much i see that people hate the fact that our army is in afghanistan.




No,they couldn't,this image of "weak europeans" is wrong,pls do the math on military assets of all european countries in the EU and I think you'll realise that nobody could "rip us to shreds" that easily,we're not Irak.
And yes,they want to share blame and they want to pose as the leaders of the free world.The fact that often they are invited in by the local muslims doesn't help either.I think muslims should first sort this "US help us!" cries and than lay blame somewhere else,even if that blame is legitimate.

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## Vinod2070

qamar1990 said:


> we are going to build mosques while you cant make nothing in our countries and you cant do nothing about it lol
> 
> somebody need to stick a dynamite stick up your *** that would be the best



This bigotry and naked two faced lies while also claiming to be "peaceful and tolerant" and making noises of Islamaphobia, that has taken you where you are and will take you where you are going.



qamar1990 said:


> i never exprienced it person just on net, so im not worried lol.



Tell that to the like of CAIR also. To stop the lies about Islamophobia.

You have it much better than you give to others and it is not going to continue for long.

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## qamar1990

Vinod2070 said:


> This bigotry and naked two faced lies while also claiming to be "peaceful and tolerant" and making noises of Islamaphobia, that has taken you where you are and will take you where you are going.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the like of CAIR also. To stop the lies about Islamophobia.
> 
> You have it much better than you give to others and it is not going to continue for long.




oh my i guess i better stop then...............
this is all im going to bother typing for dumbas s like you.



flamer84 said:


> No,they couldn't,this image of "weak europeans" is wrong,pls do the math on military assets of all european countries in the EU and I think you'll realise that nobody could "rip us to shreds" that easily,we're not Irak.
> And yes,they want to share blame and they want to pose as the leaders of the free world.The fact that often they are invited in by the local muslims doesn't help either.I think muslims should first sort this "US help us!" cries and than lay blame somewhere else,even if that blame is legitimate.



add it up.
lot of the eu countries dont have armies.
the ones that do dont even have enough to take out one of our states.
at the moment i think the us is strong enough to take on the whole world with out even using a single nuclear weapon.


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## Vinod2070

Funny. Neither being too clever by half, nor acting coy or ignorant is going to help.

It will need real work and clearly there is no one who is willing to do that.

As things are going, the omens are not good at all. It is going to get much worse before it gets better.


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## Beerbal

flamer84 said:


> I don't know if the average american soldier is braver than anyone else,i don't think so,but the americans certainly have the biggest,meanest,well oiled war machine on this planet.
> Not only germans ,ALL europeans are pissed at this,it's time for us to stop acting as american puppets and sending our soldiers to *wars that don't concern us.*If some nations want to kill each other somewhere half away across the globe,it's their bussiness,we shouldn't be policing them,especially now when our economies are reeling.I think the mood is chanching across Europe,we're slowly distancing ourselves from the americans and their policies.





Soon war is gonna come to your door.. They will hit Effile tower, They will do 7/11, They will ask Sharia4Europe, They will stab your soldiers...


The terrorism is enemy of all, Not only USA-India-Israel... You can distance yourself from war, but the war can't... The war is coming, and it will use all means (even Nukes).

@Topic: Sad incident, the worship place must not be damaged (illegaly). If protestor feel that Mosque is illegal on there mother land, they should seek judiciary/democracy help (like Swiss did).


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## Developereo

Juice said:


> You mean the way Safriz supported the attacks?



I don' t know what he justified, nor does it matter.

Using whatever it was as an excuse, you are saying that terrorism is justified? Good to know.



Juice said:


> What are mosque doing in a Christian nation anyways?



Existing in full compliance of local laws?

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## Beerbal

Juice said:


> Yes, we do kill millions....next time you wanna attack us keep it in mind. You started it....we will pay you back a thousand fold.





Strong word, really strong word..

Yesterday i was reading Obama's view on drones, he said the same what I keep saying on forums.. "Drones save valuable life, Direct action (troops) would have done more collateral damage. Looks like drone will continue for one more decade...


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## flamer84

Beerbal said:


> Soon war is gonna come to your door.. They will hit Effile tower, They will do 7/11, They will ask Sharia4Europe, They will stab your soldiers...
> 
> 
> The terrorism is enemy of all, Not only USA-India-Israel... You can distance yourself from war, but the war can't... The war is coming, and it will use all means (even Nukes).
> 
> @Topic: Sad incident, the worship place must not be damaged (illegaly). If protestor feel that Mosque is illegal on there mother land, they should seek judiciary/democracy help (like Swiss did).



If we deport/lock up all radicals,all rioters,stop unchecked immigration of large masses of poor illiterates and don't involve our nations in foreign wars i think will be ok..If a rogue nation comes close to have nukes,a fast ,surgical military intervention to destroy their nuclear capabilities will suffice.

Shut the gate,man the walls and go about our daily lives.


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## livingdead

flamer84 said:


> If we deport/lock up all radicals,all rioters,stop unchecked immigration of large masses of poor illiterates and don't involve our nations in foreign wars i think will be ok..If a rogue nation comes close to have nukes,a fast ,surgical military intervention to destroy their nuclear capabilities will suffice.
> 
> Shut the gate,man the walls and go about our daily lives.



well, thats exactly what USA did, encouraged high value migration, build up strong defences, but still 9/11 happened. They realized with a loss of 3000 lifes, homeland security requires you to fight elsewhere, far away from homeland. 

USA can afford to do that, rest of us cant, the best course of action will be to build multinational consensus to deal with rogue nations or those who host rogue actors.

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## Beerbal

flamer84 said:


> If we deport/lock up all radicals,all rioters,stop unchecked immigration of large masses of poor illiterates and don't involve our nations in foreign wars i think will be ok..If a rogue nation comes close to have nukes,a fast ,surgical military intervention to destroy their nuclear capabilities will suffice.
> 
> Shut the gate,man the walls and go about our daily lives.







hmmm.. Please do this...


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## Vinod2070

hinduguy said:


> well, thats exactly what USA did, encouraged high value migration, build up strong defences, but still 9/11 happened. They realized with a loss of 3000 lifes, homeland security requires you to fight elsewhere, far away from homeland.
> 
> USA can afford to do that, rest of us cant, the best course of action will be to build multinational consensus to deal with rogue nations or those who host them.



Well, the war against Islamic radicals will go on for the next 2-3 decades, though the intensity will reduce even more over a period.

The back of the extremists is broken and their strategic goal of occupying major Muslims countries has been thwarted. They have no real chance now.

It is just a matter of finishing them off one by one. Any damage these people can now do is pretty limited.


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## flamer84

hinduguy said:


> well, thats exactly what USA did, encouraged high value migration, build up strong defences, but still 9/11 happened. They realized with a loss of 3000 lifes, homeland security requires you to fight elsewhere, far away from homeland.
> 
> USA can afford to do that, rest of us cant, the best course of action will be to build multinational consensus to deal with rogue nations or those who host them.



Point taken,but i don't think we can build multinational consensus,the chinese have their own plans,the russians as well,it's everybody for himself out there,unfortunately.If you can't reduce home terrorism to zero i still think you can reduce its impact by the measures i've stated,it really doesn't help when you import millions of poor immigrants that hate you.

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## Developereo

flamer84 said:


> If we deport/lock up all radicals,all rioters,stop unchecked immigration of large masses of poor illiterates and don't involve our nations in foreign wars i think will be ok..If a rogue nation comes close to have nukes,a fast ,surgical military intervention to destroy their nuclear capabilities will suffice.
> 
> Shut the gate,man the walls and go about our daily lives.



Then you really don't understand social dynamics.

In every society, there is stratification: there are the haves and the have-nots; the elite and the disenfranchised at the two extremes.

With careful media manipulation, the attention of the masses, especially the disenfranchised, can be focused on convenient scapegoats so the masses can vent their frustrations in that direction. This way they will have less time to make trouble for the elites; they can even feel smugly self-righteous and superior in the balance. If the elites look down upon them, they, in turn, can look down on someone else. Oh joy!

If you remove (Muslim) immigrants as the scapegoats, society will need some other scapegoats to keep the masses occupied. This has been the pattern throughout history and across societies.

And, with the Muslims gone, the next scapegoat might just be *you*!

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## flamer84

Beerbal said:


> hmmm.. Please do this...



We're trying to convince our politicians,they don't listen as they live in their ivory towers.Soon,they to will be brought down in the real world.

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## flamer84

Developereo said:


> Then you really don't understand social dynamics.
> 
> In every society, there is stratification: there are the haves and the have-nots; the elite and the disenfranchised at the two extremes.
> 
> With careful media manipulation, the attention of the masses, especially the disenfranchised, can be focused on convenient scapegoats so the masses can vent their frustrations in that direction. This way they will have less time to make trouble for the elites; they can even feel smugly self-righteous and superior in the balance. If the elites look down upon them, they, in turn, can look down on someone else. Oh joy!
> 
> If you remove (Muslim) immigrants as the scapegoats, society will need some other scapegoats to keep the masses occupied. This has been the pattern throughout history and across societies.
> 
> And, with the Muslims gone, the next scapegoat might just be *you*!



To some europeans *I* am allready a scapegoat("romanians come to steal!,,they take our jobs!" etc,etc) but i understand them.
Every country has its criminals and that is precisely why it does not need some imported ones.It's not logical ,why bring lots of poor people that the state has to pay? If somebody comes to work,prooves that he has a job,comes to study,prooves that he can pay his bills they are a welcomed adittion,if not ,they are simply a nuisance on allready heavy breathing economies.It's just not worth it,Europe it's not a big welfare shelter for everybody,we have our own problems.

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## livingdead

flamer84 said:


> Point taken,but i don't think we can build multinational consensus,the chinese have their own plans,the russians as well,it's everybody for himself out there,unfortunately.If you can't reduce home terrorism to zero i still think you can reduce its impact by the measures i've stated,it really doesn't help when you import millions of poor immigrants that hate you.



Sure, every country has right to protect its borders and decide the quantum and type of immigrants. Currently there is a huge debate going on about imminent invasion of poor bulgarians and romanians here, some even asking to pull out from eu.


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## temujin

Developereo said:


> Then you really don't understand social dynamics.
> 
> In every society, there is stratification: there are the haves and the have-nots; the elite and the disenfranchised at the two extremes.
> 
> With careful media manipulation, the attention of the masses, especially the disenfranchised, can be focused on convenient scapegoats so the masses can vent their frustrations in that direction. This way they will have less time to make trouble for the elites; they can even feel smugly self-righteous and superior in the balance. If the elites look down upon them, they, in turn, can look down on someone else. Oh joy!
> 
> If you remove (Muslim) immigrants as the scapegoats, society will need some other scapegoats to keep the masses occupied. This has been the pattern throughout history and across societies.
> 
> And, with the Muslims gone, the next scapegoat might just be *you*!


 @Developereo, you are essentially repeating the social constructionist argument favoured by Muslims to explain their current global predicament. Although I readily accept that your version of reality, one where Muslims are perpetual victims of events around them which they have little agency over, may be very different to mine, does it not occur to you that Muslims for whatever reason appear to have acquired the uncanny ability to always be at the wrong place at the wrong time in recent years???

Answers on a postcard..

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## flamer84

hinduguy said:


> Sure, every country has right to protect its borders and decide the quantum and type of immigrants. Currently there is a huge debate going on about imminent invasion of poor bulgarians and romanians here, some even asking to pull out from eu.



And they are right! After the EU accession we've exported some of the worst criminals in the west.They were totally unprepared for what hit them,their liberal ways allowed scores of cunning criminals to take advantage of western system that is why I think all people that can't proove that they are working or contributing positively to their host should be kicked out.

That goes for my country as a whole,the EU has given us 20 billion euros to spend on infrastructure,social and economical development from 2008-2014.To acces those money we should have had well written programs but we couldn't do that because of corrupt politicians and incomptency.We've only spent 2,7 billion,imagine what we could do with the rest of the money,roads,hospitals,create jobs,but we didn't.
If things progress like this in the future they should kick us out I say,if you're corrupt and stupid,you don't belong in the EU,civilisation is for civilised people.


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## Beerbal

Vinod2070 said:


> Well, the *war against Islamic radicals* will go on for the next 2-3 decades, though the intensity will reduce even more over a period.
> 
> The back of the extremists is broken and their strategic goal of occupying major Muslims countries has been thwarted. They have no real chance now.
> 
> It is just a matter of finishing them off one by one. Any damage these people can now do is pretty limited.






No soon bro, not soon... It will not end in 2-3 decades.. It will not end till world will become "House-of-Islam".. (The word taken from sharia4UK members and like minded ppl in world..)


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## Vinod2070

Beerbal said:


> No soon bro, not soon... It will not end in 2-3 decades.. It will not end till world will become "House-of-Islam".. (The word taken from sharia4UK members and like minded ppl in world..)



I know. That is a different struggle.

I am just talking of the increase activities of these radicals in the last few decades. That will go down when they see it is not working anymore. A lot of latent believers will lie low when the results just refuse to come in.


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## Developereo

flamer84 said:


> Every country has its criminals and that is precisely why it does not need some imported ones.



It's not about criminals at all, but scapegoats.
If the "colored" immigrants are not there to look down upon, just who do you think the locals will find to hate?



temujin said:


> @Developereo, you are essentially repeating the social constructionist argument favoured by Muslims to explain their current global predicament. Although I readily accept that your version of reality, one where Muslims are perpetual victims of events around them which they have little agency over, may be very different to mine, does it not occur to you that Muslims for whatever reason appear to have acquired the uncanny ability to always be at the wrong place at the wrong time in recent years???
> 
> Answers on a postcard..



Once again, the situation with Muslims is not unique. This has been the pattern with many immigrant and minority groups throughout history. Since you live in the UK, I don't need to remind you about the prejudice against the Irish, Romanians, gypsies, etc.

Do you not find it interesting that the stereotypes against these minority groups exactly mirror the stereotypes held by the elites towards the lower classes?

- they breed too much.
- they are lazy.
- they are uneducated and uncultured.
- they have strong criminal tendencies.
- they take more from the system than they give.
- they create crime-infested ghetto areas and no-go zones.
- etc. etc.

Every negative stereotype that the elites hold about the lower classes is in turn projected by them towards even lower scapegoats.

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## livingdead

@Developereo : None of these have been told about muslim immigrants in UK as yet. Infact these are told about 'romanians' more than muslims. (who are mostly south asians)

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## flamer84

Developereo said:


> It's not about criminals at all, but scapegoats.
> If the "colored" immigrants are not there to look down upon, just who do you think the locals will find to hate?



You still fail to explain why Europe should tolerate and pay for scores of non working immigrants,or even working ones as long as their own citizens are unemployed.These are real countries with real existing natives man not some nursing homes for the poor of the world! And some communities like the muslim one do have higher criminal rates that your average Joe,are hard to integrate as they stick to each other and their traditions.Nobody has to put up with that in his own country,sry,that's how i see things.



hinduguy said:


> @Developereo : None of these have been told about muslim immigrants in UK as yet. Infact these are told about 'romanians' more than muslims. (who are mostly south asians)



Wrong! I've never seen romanians rioting in the streets,imposing "orthodox views" on the majority,etc,pls don't speak BS.I'm sure if you'll have a poll about romanians(btw,people are talking about mostly gypsies not romanians) vs/muslims you would stop talking nonsense.

P.S: Gypsies are the best example of easterners failing to adapt to Europe.They couldn't do it in 1000 years.


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## livingdead

flamer84 said:


> Wrong! I've never seen romanians rioting in the streets,imposing "orthodox views" on the majority,etc,pls don't speak BS.I'm sure if you'll have a poll about romanians(btw,people are talking about mostly gypsies not romanians) vs/muslims you would stop talking nonsense.



I was talking about breed too much / lazy / criminals / benefit cheat as mentioned above. Such allegations have not been seen against muslims, rather on 'romanian' and 'irish travellers'. Not saying it is true, am talking about general perception.

People do not know the difference between gypsies and romanians here. Sorry about that.


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## flamer84

hinduguy said:


> I was talking about breed too much / lazy / criminals / benefit cheat as mentioned above. Such allegations have not been seen against muslims, rather on 'romanian' and 'irish travellers'. Not saying it is true, am talking about general perception.
> 
> People do not know the difference between gypsies and romanians here. Sorry about that.



I have friends in England(working romanians),do read english papers online on a daily basis....most know the difference,and the difference is there to see,you must be blind.


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## Vinod2070

Like most things, it is not black or white.

1) There are aspects of the current Western antipathy towards Muslims that may be coming due to racism against all non Westerners or colored people.

2) There are aspects which are due to the retaliation against the specific actions by radical Muslims and the perceived or real Islamic hostility towards the West.

3) Some may even subscribe to the clash of civilization mindset.

It is a matter of conjecture or individual perception as to which part is how much significant. Some people may want to assume that it is all (or mainly) due to the first, some may believe that it is mainly due to the second.

Given the facts that we can all see, I would lean towards the second option.


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## Developereo

flamer84 said:


> You still fail to explain why Europe should tolerate and pay for scores of non working immigrants,or even working ones as long as their own citizens are unemployed.



YOU say "Europe", but the next guy would say "Western Europe", or "Britain", meaning Eastern Europeans should be excluded.



flamer84 said:


> Wrong! I've never seen romanians rioting in the streets,imposing "orthodox views" on the majority,etc



I guess I didn't convey my point.

The issue isn't the specific acts you mentioned; ANY group can be demonized and stigmatized by focusing on their misdeeds.

Do you really think it would be hard for the media to make front page news every time some Romanian gang was implicated in prostitution, drugs, etc? Every time some Romanians tried to sneak into the country, the media would put big headlines about the threat from "Romanian invasion"?

Hysteria can be manufactured.


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## temujin

Developereo said:


> It's not about criminals at all, but scapegoats.
> If the "colored" immigrants are not there to look down upon, just who do you think the locals will find to hate?
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, the situation with Muslims is not unique. This has been the pattern with many immigrant and minority groups throughout history. Since you live in the UK, I don't need to remind you about the prejudice against the Irish, Romanians, gypsies, etc.
> 
> Do you not find it interesting that the stereotypes against these minority groups exactly mirror the stereotypes held by the elites towards the lower classes?
> 
> *- they breed too much.
> - they are lazy.
> - they are uneducated and uncultured.
> - they have strong criminal tendencies.
> - they take more from the system than they give.
> - they create crime-infested ghetto areas and no-go zones.
> - etc. etc.
> *
> Every negative stereotype that the elites hold about the lower classes is in turn projected by them towards even lower scapegoats.



Despite accurately identifying stereotypes commonly associated with lower classes in most societies, you nevertheless fail to explain why many Muslims, having voluntarily migrated to the West invariably find themselves in the lowest strata within their host societies, thereby creating the perception of fitting the very stereotypes you've listed?

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## flamer84

Vinod2070 said:


> Like most things, it is not black or white.
> 
> 1) There are aspects of the current Western antipathy towards Muslims that may be coming due to racism against all non Westerners or colored people.
> 
> 2) There are aspects which are due to the retaliation against the specific actions by radical Muslims and the perceived or real Islamic hostility towards the West.
> 
> 3) Some may even subscribe to the clash of civilization mindset.
> 
> It is a matter of conjecture or individual perception as to which part is how much significant. Some people may want to assume that it is all (or mainly) due to the first, some may believe that it is mainly due to the second.
> 
> Given the facts that we can all see, I would lean towards the second option.



Exactly,that's why I think I am objective about this,me not beeing a "full westerner" I can relate to people when it comes to racism,having even experienced racism.
Some europeans might be racist but it's not like the 70's anymore.It's simple,you can't just go to a country ,blow things up,live on welfare,riot in the streets and not expect a backlash.This is true for muslims as it is true for east europeans that's why i've said that all leaches and wrong doers must be kicked out.
If a romanian steals this will shed a negative opinion on the romanian community.
If a muslim commits an act of terror this will have a backlash against the muslim community.It's simple and I for one can't blame the hosts.

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## livingdead

flamer84 said:


> I have friends in England(working romanians),do read english papers online on a daily basis....most know the difference,and the difference is there to see,you must be blind.



if you can read English, you should understand I am talking about general perception, not saying it is true in any sense. I did not say I believe romanians are such people. I dont have any data to say that.
But yes, in my observation, almost all beggars in UK are either romanians or considered romanians.


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## flamer84

Developereo said:


> YOU say "Europe", but the next guy would say "Western Europe", or "Britain", meaning Eastern Europeans should be excluded.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I didn't convey my point.
> 
> The issue isn't the specific acts you mentioned; ANY group can be demonized and stigmatized by focusing on their misdeeds.
> 
> Do you really think it would be hard for the media to make front page news every time some Romanian gang was implicated in prostitution, drugs, etc? Every time some Romanians tried to sneak into the country, the media would put big headlines about the threat from "Romanian invasion"?
> 
> Hysteria can be manufactured.



Then why don't you agree with me that muslims immigrants living on welfare,those who spread hate should be kicked out? It will be beneficial for the muslim community in the long run.
I want all romanians that don't work or commit crimes in the West kicked back to Romania.



hinduguy said:


> if you can read English, you should understand I am talking about general perception, not saying it is true in any sense. I did not say I believe romanians are such people. I dont have any data to say that.
> But yes, in my observation, almost all beggars in UK are either romanians or considered romanians.



Beggars are all ethnic gypsies,it's not even a exageration,they have a monoply on that trade.Yes,they have romanian citizenship,but even they don't consider themselves romanians for them it's just a historical accident.They see migration as an important part of gypsie life.

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## Vinod2070

flamer84 said:


> Exactly,that's why I think I am objective about this,me not beeing a "full westerner" I can relate to people when it comes to racism,having even experienced racism.
> Some europeans might be racist but it's not like the 70's anymore.It's simple,you can't just go to a country ,blow things up,live on welfare,riot in the streets and not expect a backlash.This is true for muslims as it is true for east europeans that's why i've said that all leaches and wrong doers must be kicked out.
> If a romanian steals this will shed a negative opinion on the romanian community.
> If a muslim commits an act of terror this will have a backlash against the muslim community.It's simple and I for one can't blame the hosts.



I agree.

I think many people just find the sense of victim-hood comforting. It helps avoid all responsibility.

As it is, they are mostly helpless to do much even if they wanted to. It is almost an intractable problem in their own societies as well.

And then, some are actually (wittingly or unwittingly, mostly the former) accomplishes of the radical ones. They are the "denialists" and "Islamophobe" shouting brigade.

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## Developereo

temujin said:


> Despite accurately identifying stereotypes commonly associated with lower classes in most societies, you nevertheless fail to explain why many Muslims, having voluntarily migrated to the West invariably find themselves in the lowest strata within their host societies, thereby creating the perception of fitting the very stereotypes you've listed?



I have never denied that some Muslim subcultures are in desperate need of a leadership upgrade into modernity. There is also the issue of local racism, which can not be denied. It is a combination of factors and there is no denying that Muslim leaders in these specific sub-communities share the blame.

The reason I differentiate the sub-communities is that there is absolutely nothing in common between the various communities, other than the label "Muslim". They are as distinct as the Anglicans from the Catholics or Easter Orthodox Christians.

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## flamer84

Developereo said:


> I have never denied that some Muslim subcultures are in desperate need of a leadership upgrade into modernity. There is also the issue of local racism, which can not be denied. It is a combination of factors and there is no denying that Muslim leaders in these specific sub-communities share the blame.
> 
> The reason I differentiate the sub-communities is that there is absolutely nothing in common between the various communities, other than the label "Muslim". They are as distinct as the Anglicans from the Catholics or Easter Orthodox Christians.



Well,many on this forum will disagree with you,they see themselves as one big "muslim Umah".
That guy killed the soldier because of western crimes in "muslim/our lands".If some muslims see things this way you can't really blame europeans for feeling the same.

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## Vinod2070

flamer84 said:


> Well,many on this forum will disagree with you,they see themselves as one big "muslim Umah".
> That guy killed the soldier because of western crimes in "muslim/our lands".*If some muslims see things this way you can't really blame europeans for feeling the same.*



That is the key.

You can't be a global Islamist by day and a "Westerner" by night.

You have to choose. Especially when the time to choose is upon us. When the two sides are so clearly on opposite sides.

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## Developereo

flamer84 said:


> Then why don't you agree with me that muslims immigrants living on welfare,those who spread hate should be kicked out? It will be beneficial for the muslim community in the long run.
> I want all romanians that don't work or commit crimes in the West kicked back to Romania.



ANYONE who abuses the welfare system should be punished. As a taxpayer, I really don't care if the person abusing is white, brown or black. The locals have no more right to leech than anyone else.

Same thing for spreading hatred. All hate speech -- especially one that promotes communal discord -- should be dealt with harshly. More so when it incites or condones violence.


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## temujin

Developereo said:


> *I have never denied that some Muslim subcultures are in desperate need of a leadership upgrade into modernity. There is also the issue of local racism, which can not be denied. It is a combination of factors and there is no denying that Muslim leaders in these specific sub-communities share the blame.
> *
> The reason I differentiate the sub-communities is that there is absolutely nothing in common between the various communities, other than the label "Muslim". They are as distinct as the Anglicans from the Catholics or Easter Orthodox Christians.




Thank you...


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## uzair ramay

sad news,,,,i hope uk police will capture the person who did this ///


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## Vinod2070

The locals (or natives) do have more right to their country than immigrants. They are living in their own country!

Anyone claiming otherwise is living in his own imaginary world.

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## flamer84

Developereo said:


> YOU say "Europe", but the next guy would say "Western Europe", or "Britain", meaning Eastern Europeans should be excluded.



British,romanian,unfortunately we're all fair game.

Sheikh Omar Bakri: Romania may be the target of terrorist attacks


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## Developereo

flamer84 said:


> Well,many on this forum will disagree with you,they see themselves as one big "muslim Umah".
> That guy killed the soldier because of western crimes in "muslim/our lands".If some muslims see things this way you can't really blame europeans for feeling the same.



People need to differentiate between the *causes* and the *remedies*.

Addressing pet causes through political activism is fine; doing so with violence is not.

This applies to everybody.


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## flamer84

Developereo said:


> ANYONE who abuses the welfare system should be punished. As a taxpayer, I really don't care if the person abusing is white, brown or black. The locals have no more right to leech than anyone else.
> 
> Same thing for spreading hatred. All hate speech -- especially one that promotes communal discord -- should be dealt with harshly. More so when it incites or condones violence.



Wrong,if a state has welfare for its citizens,then they should enjoy it,it's their right,if you're an immigrant you must go there to work not to expect hand outs,like it or not immigrants are outsiders in the end.

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## Vinod2070

flamer84 said:


> Wrong,if a state has welfare for its citizens,then they should enjoy it,it's their right,if you're an immigrant you must go there to work not to expect hand outs,like it or not immigrants are outsiders in the end.



As long as we have the concept of a nation state exercising sovereignty over it's territory, this would appear to be self evident. 

Allowing an immigrant to live or work in a country is a privilege granted by the country, not a right.

Of course, I am in favor of relaxed rules and easy mobility to live and work anywhere, it can't supersede the wishes of the local people anywhere.


----------



## flamer84

Developereo said:


> People need to differentiate between the *causes* and the *remedies*.
> 
> Addressing pet causes through political activism is fine; doing so with violence is not.
> 
> This applies to everybody.



Ofcourse,but deportation is not violence,it's cleaning house.
In the end,we're humans,humans respond violently when threathened,violent backlashes are undesired but expected in such situations.

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## Developereo

flamer84 said:


> Wrong,if a state has welfare for its citizens,then they should enjoy it,it's their right,if you're an immigrant you must go there to work not to expect hand outs,like it or not immigrants are outsiders in the end.



You need to read my post again.

NO ONE has a right to *abuse* the welfare system at the expense of taxpayers. In particular. a local does *NOT* have the right to abuse the welfare system at the expense of a migrant taxpayer.

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## Dubious

flamer84 said:


> Wrong,*if a state has welfare for its citizens,then they should enjoy it,it's their right,*if you're an immigrant you must go there to work not to expect hand outs,like it or not immigrants are outsiders in the end.


 @flamer84 werent you screaming the opposite in a different thread


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## Developereo

flamer84 said:


> In the end,we're humans,humans respond violently when threathened,violent backlashes are undesired but expected in such situations.



Funny.

Someone else spoke like that.

Used to live in Abbotabad.


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## flamer84

Talon said:


> @flamer84 werent you screaming the opposite in a different thread



No,I'm talking about natives here.
For example,native brits can enjoy their welfare system,immigrants shouldn't.



Developereo said:


> Funny.
> 
> Someone else spoke like that.
> 
> Used to live in Abbotabad.



It's simple human nature,it depends on civilisation I guess.Some riot immediately after a cartoon,others after 20 years of terrorist abuse in their country by immigrants.Long story short the civilised ones will be more patient,they won't be so forever though,it's not in our nature.(human nature i mean)

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## Dubious

flamer84 said:


> Ofcourse,but deportation is not violence,it's cleaning house.
> In the end,*we're humans,humans respond violently when threathened*,violent backlashes are undesired but expected in such situations.


 @flamer84 I wonder where these comments were when it comes to Muslims...



flamer84 said:


> No,I'm talking about natives here.
> For example,native brits can enjoy their welfare system,immigrants shouldn't.


 @flamer84 being an immigrant the laws STATE that WE IMMIGRANTS are NOT allowed to ask from the welfare system....so, am not sure what you are talking about ...the system will refuse you the min they see your passport, your visa and what not!


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## Vinod2070

flamer84 said:


> It's simple human nature,it depends on civilisation I guess.Some riot immediately after a cartoon,others after 20 years of terrorist abuse in their country by immigrants.Long story short the civilised ones will be more patient,*they won't be so forever though*,it's not in our nature.(human nature i mean)



That is exactly what seems to be expected from non Muslims.

They are supposed to silently and indefinitely bear the ever increasing provocations while being simultaneously called "Islamophobe".

Even that will never be enough.


----------



## flamer84

Talon said:


> @flamer84 I wonder where these comments were when it comes to Muslims...
> 
> *I see no relation,war in Afghanistan doesn't pose a threat to a british muslim,as even Developereo said.*
> 
> @flamer84 being an immigrant the laws STATE that WE IMMIGRANTS are NOT allowed to ask from the welfare system....so, am not sure what you are talking about ...the system will refuse you the min they see your passport, your visa and what not!



Welfare is given to scores of immigrants from "war torn countries" everywhere in Europe.


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## Vinod2070

A terrorist doesn't always say the wrong thing.

It is the interpretation that he draws from the right statements that is the problem.


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## flamer84

Vinod2070 said:


> That is exactly what seems to be expected from non Muslims.
> 
> They are supposed to silently and indefinitely bear the ever increasing provocations while being simultaneously called "Islamophobe".
> 
> Even that will never be enough.



Double standards at its best! Drawing a cartoon=christians killed in their hundreds,churches burned,embassies stormed.
British citizen killed in London=stones thrown at some mosques by night,racist remarks.

Still,they see many similarities.Well,I don't.


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## UKBengali

Vinod2070 said:


> *The locals (or natives) do have more right to their country than immigrants. They are living in their own country!*
> 
> Anyone claiming otherwise is living in his own imaginary world.



All "locals" were at one time in the past descended from immigrants themselves.

What makes one a local and someone else an immigrant is not easy to define.

Most people can readily agree that an immigrant is someone who was born in another country but migrated to another country afterwards.

In the case of the Woolwich attackers, they were born in England so technically they are just as British as any white person who can trace their ancestry back in the British Isles many generations.

If what you say is the way it should be, then all countries would need to redefine their citizenship laws.

Sorry but this sort of thinking is simply racist and nothing less.

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## Vinod2070

flamer84 said:


> Double standards at its best! Drawing a cartoon=christians killed in their hundreds,churches burned,embassies stormed.
> British citizen killed in London=stones thrown at some mosques by night,racist remarks.
> 
> Still,they see many similarities.Well,I don't.



Many would see the Muslims as victims in both cases. That is the beauty of it.

It may boggle the mind and may escape human intelligence, it is still a reality.



UKBengali said:


> All "locals" were at one time in the past descended from immigrants themselves.
> 
> What makes one a local and someone else an immigrant is not easy to define.
> 
> Most people can readily agree that an immigrant is someone who was born in another country but migrated to another country afterwards.
> 
> In the case of the Woolwich attackers, they were born in England so *technically *they are just as British as any white person who can trace their ancestry back in the British Isles many generations.
> 
> If what you say is the way it should be, then all countries would need to redefine their citizenship laws.
> 
> Sorry but this sort of thinking is simply racist and nothing less.



What you are doing is getting "technical" on me.

As we both know, it doesn't work very well in real life.



> Most people can readily agree that an immigrant is someone who was born in another country but migrated to another country afterwards.



Not that easy. Very few countries have this criteria for a "local" or a "citizen".

Very very few.

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## Developereo

Talon said:


> WE IMMIGRANTS are NOT allowed to ask from the welfare system....



He is deliberately conflating the concept of welfare entitlement with welfare abuse.

No one has the right to abuse the system; not even a thirteenth generation "local".

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## Dubious

flamer84 said:


> Double standards at its best! Drawing a cartoon=christians killed in their hundreds,churches burned,embassies stormed.
> British citizen killed in London=*stones thrown at some mosques *by night,racist remarks.
> 
> Still,they see many similarities.Well,I don't.


 @flamer84 Yea a petrol bomb can be equated to stones...







Not sure which stones can POTENTIALLY do this kind of damage:


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## flamer84

@Talon-I've stated very clearly that i'm not agreeing with this kind of behaviour,i've only said that it doesn't come as a surprise to me and it's a far cry from the level of racism and violence that could happen in a muslim country,and you can't deny this.

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## Dubious

flamer84 said:


> Double standards at its best! Drawing a cartoon=christians killed in their hundreds,churches burned,embassies stormed.
> British citizen killed in London=stones thrown at some mosques by night,racist remarks.
> 
> Still,they see many similarities.Well,I don't.



Lets see am not sure how you forgot to mention this bit:

Freedom of speech = portray cartoon of Muhammad SAW BUT The *denial *of the systematic genocidal killing of millions of Jews by Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s, *is illegal in a number of European countries*

Just denying an event is insensitive, racist and illegal?! Interesting isnt it? 



> Of the countries that ban Holocaust denial, a number (Austria, Germany, Hungary, and Romania) were among the perpetrators of the Holocaust, and many of these also *ban *other* elements associated with Nazism*



Take a look at how many SECULAR countries support this: Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


However, no one cares about Palestine, Africa, Cambodian (Khmer genocide), and many more ....



flamer84 said:


> @Talon-I've stated very clearly that i'm not agreeing with this kind of behaviour,i've only said that it doesn't come as a surprise to me and it's a far cry from the level of racism and violence that could happen in a muslim country,and you can't deny this.


 @flamer84 its not a far cry....Plus the violence started when the 

West funded Afghan to fight Sovient Union

West funded Gulf war

So if the blame is to come it is from the seeds one sowed! However we the east seem to be paying for it for YEARS now!

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## flamer84

"Their countries,their rules"...ring a bell? I'm not sure that the law is that strict regarding holocaust denial.
Ten years ago,in my last year in highschool i was kicked out of history olimpics for denying the holocaust in my country during ww2.I just refused to write something about the holocaust because i believe the romanian authorities didn't perpetrate a holocaust,they just kicked me out of the contest,nobody called the police or prosecuted.In the end ,you can't equate killing of a millions with a cartoon.


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## Vinod2070

flamer84 said:


> "Their countries,their rules"...ring a bell? I'm not sure that the law is that strict regarding holocaust denial.
> Ten years ago,in my last year in highschool i was kicked out of history olimpics for denying the holocaust in my country during ww2.I just refused to write something about the holocaust because i believe the romanian authorities didn't perpetrate a holocaust,they just kicked me out of the contest,nobody called the police or prosecuted.In the end ,*you can't equate killing of a millions with a cartoon*.



I always find this Islamist trick pretty interesting.

They are all so much interested in this holocaust denial law. Not realizing that this is to prevent the recurrence of new Nazis who indulge in similar denial as themselves.

The fear that denial will result in a repeat of history may have some basis after all. These countries know that the tendencies lurk just below the surface and need to be actively controlled.

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## Dubious

flamer84 said:


> "Their countries,their rules"...ring a bell? I'm not sure that the law is that strict regarding holocaust denial.
> Ten years ago,in my last year in highschool i was kicked out of history olimpics for denying the holocaust in my country during ww2.I just refused to write something about the holocaust because i believe the romanian authorities didn't perpetrate a holocaust,they just kicked me out of the contest,nobody called the police or prosecuted.In the end ,you can't equate killing of a millions with a cartoon.


 @flamer84 no you cant....the killing part was wrong so was drawing a cartoon when the ARTIST KNEW it was not welcomed! The worse part was the govt did nothing until their products were boycotted then they were slapped into reality as to not going about hurting other people's religion...

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## flamer84

Vinod2070 said:


> I always find this Islamist trick pretty interesting.
> 
> They are all so much interested in this holocaust denial law. Not realizing that this is to prevent the recurrence of new Nazis who indulge in similar denial as themselves.
> 
> The fear that denial will result in a repeat of history may have some basis after all. These countries know that the tendencies lurk just below the surface and need to be actively controlled.



Here is where I don't agree,people should have the freedom to debate/negate things or else dangerous precedents can be created.Many more,in the future will say that their version of history is the golden rule and those who disagree will face prosecution.

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## Dubious

Vinod2070 said:


> I always find this Islamist trick pretty interesting.
> 
> They are all so much interested in this holocaust denial law. Not realizing that this is to prevent the recurrence of new Nazis who indulge in similar denial as themselves.
> 
> The fear that denial will result in a repeat of history may have some basis after all. These countries know that the tendencies lurk just below the surface and need to be actively controlled.


 @Vinod2070 similar laws should be passed for denying Western intervention in the formation of radicalization through western funding! 

Or laws for war crimes conducted by America...I am sure THOSE laws need more attention!

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## flamer84

the killing part was wrong and illegal.
the drawing cartoon part was wrong.

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## Dubious

flamer84 said:


> Here is where I don't agree,people should have the freedom to debate/negate things or else dangerous precedents can be created.Many more,in the future will say that their version of history is the golden rule and those who disagree will face prosecution.


 @flamer84 debating should be encouraged but not where people are only interested in bringing in 1 sided sympathies!



flamer84 said:


> the killing part was wrong and the illegal.
> the drawing cartoon part was wrong.


 @flamer84 were this said back then, the killing would not have become what it became when the govt and media tried to justify it as freedom of speech...THAT alone pissed thousands!

And like I said yes, 



Talon said:


> @flamer84 no you cant...*.the killing part was wrong so was drawing a cartoon when the ARTIST KNEW it was not welcomed*! The worse part was the govt did nothing until their products were boycotted then they were slapped into reality as to not going about hurting other people's religion...

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## flamer84

@Talon-It may sound childish but our goverments can't stop a cartoon from beeing published.They'll get sued and condemned in a court of law.

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## Dubious

flamer84 said:


> @Talon-It may sound childish but our goverments can't stop a cartoon from beeing published.They'll get sued and condemned in a court of law.


 @flamer84 that is the funny bit, you guys just can sue anyone and anything even if it wrong! 

However the awaited apology which the govt gave came after boycotts of their products! So, they were capable of an apology just needed a little economic slap?!

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## flamer84

Talon said:


> @flamer84 that is the funny bit, you guys just can sue anyone and anything even if it wrong!
> 
> However the awaited apology which the govt gave came after boycotts of their products! So, they were capable of an apology just needed a little economic slap?!



Yep,capitalists care about money,if the money flows we will apologise even for what the Roman empire did and we will be the nicest people on Earth

Still,an idiot drawing a cartoon,is an idiot drawing a cartoon,it shouldn't reflect upon a nation

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## temujin

A 'false flag op' if there ever was one..

War memorial vandalised in wake of terror murder - Telegraph



> *War memorial vandalised in wake of terror murder*
> 
> A war memorial to the thousands of members of the RAF&#8217;s Bomber Command, who sacrificed their lives during the Second World War, has been daubed with graffiti as tension following the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby continued to intensify.
> 
> *Vandals painted the word Islam in large red letters on the structure and also on the nearby Animals in War memorial.
> 
> Elsewhere at least ten mosques were attacked and in Grimsby an Islamic Cultural Centre was firebombed while people were inside.*
> 
> In London supporters of the far right English Defence League (EDL) who were marching on Downing Street, clashed with anti-fascist demonstrators.
> 
> The incidents signalled a rise in community tension as anger over the brutal murder of 25-year-old Drummer Rigby continued to mount.
> 
> *It was not clear tonight whether the attack on the war memorials was the work of Islamic extremists or by others seeking to exploit the situation to increase tension between communities. *



Meanwhile, the MI5 wants Jo public to do its job.. all starting to sound very Orwellian

Spy on your neighbours, says former MI5 head Stella Rimington - Telegraph



> People who suspect their neighbours may be extremists should inform the security services because &#8220;the enemy is everywhere&#8221;, the former head of MI5 has said.
> 
> Dame Stella Rimington invoked the wartime spirit as she said the public had a duty to act as the &#8220;eyes and ears&#8221; of the security services in combating terrorists.
> 
> She made the plea as she warned that MI5 could not be expected to spot every danger and that further attacks were likely unless Britain wanted a &#8220;Stasi&#8221; state where everyone was monitored.
> 
> However, Dame Stella, who was Director General of MI5 from 1992 to 1996, *said she supported the Conservatives&#8217; plans to give the police and spy agencies the power to monitor every phone call, email and web visit.*


----------



## EXPERIMENT

Developereo said:


> Of course, but I am waiting for the usual suspects to insinuate that the "Muzlooms" deserve this.
> 
> When terrorism occurs against Westerners, they blame Muslims; when it occurs against Muslims, they still blame Muslims.



You are absolutely correct.
"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction"

Organised Religion Ego = Organised Religion Ego (Stupidity)
Fundamentalist = Fundamentalist (Stupidity)
Violence = Violence (Stupidity)

Human Rights = Human Rights (Great)
Freedom = Freedom (Great)
Respect for all illogical beliefs as *equal* = Respect for all illogical beliefs as *equal* (Great)
Laws for all not based on Religious dogma = Laws for all not based on Religious dogma (Great)

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## Juice

Talon said:


> Lets see am not sure how you forgot to mention this bit:
> 
> Freedom of speech = portray cartoon of Muhammad SAW BUT The *denial *of the systematic genocidal killing of millions of Jews by Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s, *is illegal in a number of European countries*
> 
> Just denying an event is insensitive, racist and illegal?! Interesting isnt it?
> 
> 
> 
> Take a look at how many SECULAR countries support this: Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> However, no one cares about Palestine, Africa, Cambodian (Khmer genocide), and many more ....
> 
> 
> @flamer84 its not a far cry....Plus the violence started when the
> 
> West funded Afghan to fight Sovient Union
> 
> West funded Gulf war
> 
> So if the blame is to come it is from the seeds one sowed! However we the east seem to be paying for it for YEARS now!



You deny it all day long, and yet you're not in prison. What is exactly the problem? Deny it if it makes you feel good.


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## Juice

Talon said:


> @flamer84 I doubt they could....because they are not as brave as they thump their chest even in Iraq and Afghanistan (recent wars) they sent in local help, followed by soldiers from EU countries and Oz and sent their troops last...
> 
> I heard the Germans were pissed at this ...a friend was telling...


 If we are such chickens pink one (describes your armies as well)....Why are you whining instead of throwing us out?



flamer84 said:


> I don't know if the average american soldier is braver than anyone else,i don't think so,but the americans certainly have the biggest,meanest,well oiled war machine on this planet.
> Not only germans ,ALL europeans are pissed at this,it's time for us to stop acting as american puppets and sending our soldiers to wars that don't concern us.If some nations want to kill each other somewhere half away across the globe,it's their bussiness,we shouldn't be policing them,especially now when our economies are reeling.I think the mood is chanching across Europe,we're slowly distancing ourselves from the americans and their policies.



Spent most of my youth in Germany (born there)....so don't presume to lecture me on European opinion (as a white person....never treated as a foreigner)


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## flamer84

Juice said:


> If we are such chickens pink one (describes your armies as well)....Why are you whining instead of throwing us out?
> 
> 
> 
> Spent most of my youth in Germany (born there)....so don't presume to lecture me on European opinion (as a white person....never treated as a foreigner)




I think you got it wrong,I wasn't talking how they treat foreigners,I was talking about opinion on waging american led wars somewhere in cuckoo land.I don't know what was like in your childhood but right now nobody is pretty thrilled anymore about this ideea.

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## Hellraiser007

qamar1990 said:


> your a fu cking nut job,
> its becuase people like terrorists keep attacking us. just freaking stop with the bs.
> however if anybody does attack us and we know who it is, than yes without the i say send in the seals and take the bastards out.
> but invading countries did us no good so far. surgical operations are the best option.



But the Islamic terrorists can attack unarmed innocent civilians??


----------



## Dubious

Juice said:


> You deny it all day long, and yet you're not in prison. What is exactly the problem? Deny it if it makes you feel good.


 @Juice the prob is IT ACTUALLY made it INTO the law...as in WRITTEN LAW! while making fun of any other culture, religion, colour is fine!  Strange you see nothing STRANGE about it!



Hellraiser007 said:


> But the *Islamic terrorists* can *attack unarmed innocent civilians*??


 @Hellraiser007 Americans do that we do not say SECULARISTS attacked us!


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## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> Hellraiser007[/MENTION] Americans do that we do not say SECULARISTS attacked us!



Basically it is a war between two faiths and two civilizations. The guys sitting in Saudi have their own rights on their lands and UK guys have their own.


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## qamar1990

Hellraiser007 said:


> But the Islamic terrorists can attack unarmed innocent civilians??



how did you come up with that one?
how do you indians come up with this **** anyways?
do you people have any shame? or any self respect left in you?
you people are baygharats


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## Hellraiser007

qamar1990 said:


> how did you come up with that one?
> how do you indians come up with this **** anyways?
> do you people have any shame? or any self respect left in you?
> you people are baygharats



Show your frustration some where else no on me.

You are the same people who cheered for OBL and when things went reverse you people are singing peace tunes. Shame on you...!!!

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## qamar1990

Hellraiser007 said:


> Show your frustration some where else no on me.
> 
> You are the same people who cheered for OBL and when things went reverse you people are singing peace tunes. Shame on you...!!!




only frustration i have is with people like you, you the scums of this earth.


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## Hellraiser007

qamar1990 said:


> only frustration i have is with people like you, you the scums of this earth.



Becareful when using your words, post reported.

Scum is the word that is there in the mind of westerners all these years.

It seems off late the western Govts. are not tolerating this kind of nonsense in their lands and so they are in the job of purifying their lands.

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## Dubious

Hellraiser007 said:


> Basically it is a war *between two faiths* and two civilizations. The guys sitting in Saudi have their own rights on their lands and UK guys have their own.


 @Hellraiser007 then the term secularism is just a cover up....

I don't talk about Saudi COZ I am not sitting there...

2 faiths? Is secularism a faith now?!


----------



## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 then the term secularism is just a cover up....
> 
> I don't talk about Saudi COZ I am not sitting there...
> 
> 2 faiths? Is secularism a faith now?!


 
I am talking about west (majority Christians) and Islam. 

Secularism only works when the thorn like Radical Islam or any radicals in the society are destroyed completely. 

UK is a Christian country not a secular one. They can change their laws according to Bible if they want.

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## qamar1990

Hellraiser007 said:


> Becareful when using your words, post reported.
> 
> Scum is the word that is there in the mind of westerners all these years.
> 
> It seems off late the western Govts. are not tolerating this kind of nonsense in their lands and so they are in the job of purifying their lands.



this is the response i expected from an indian who had nothing left to save face lol.


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## Dubious

Hellraiser007 said:


> I am talking about west (majority Christians) and Islam.
> 
> Secularism only works when the thorn like Radical Islam or any radicals in the society are destroyed completely.
> 
> UK is a Christian country not a secular one. They can change their laws according to Bible if they want.


 @Hellraiser007 West is majority atheist! The churches are only attended by elderly people .....Even most of them go to socialize rather...The youth prefer to go out with friends and enjoy a drink or two rather than attending mass...

In the 3 cities in UK I have stayed, the 2 cities around in EU and others which I have visited, I am yet to see a church get a full house even on Easter it is not! There are Christians of course...But majority have no religion what so ever...

Uk is a Christian country?  which century are you in?!


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## Dubious

Forms of *Christianity* have dominated religious life in what is now the *United Kingdom for over 1,400 years*. Although a *majority of citizens still identify with Christianity* in many *surveys*, regular church attendance has fallen dramatically since the middle of the 20th century , while immigration and demographic change have contributed to the growth of other faiths, most notably Islam. This has led some commentators to variously describe the UK as a multi-faith, secularised, or post-Christian society.


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## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 West is majority atheist! The churches are only attended by elderly people .....Even most of them go to socialize rather...The youth prefer to go out with friends and enjoy a drink or two rather than attending mass...
> 
> In the 3 cities in UK I have stayed, the 2 cities around in EU and others which I have visited, I am yet to see a church get a full house even on Easter it is not! There are Christians of course...But majority have no religion what so ever...
> 
> Uk is a Christian country?  which century are you in?!



As said by Cameron himself.

BBC News - David Cameron says the UK is a Christian country



> David Cameron says the UK is a Christian countryComments (1033) David Cameron David Cameron called himself a "committed" but "vaguely practising" Christian Continue reading the main story
> Related Stories
> Cameron speaks of Christian faith
> 
> David Cameron has said the UK is a Christian country "and we should not be afraid to say so".
> 
> In a speech in Oxford on the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible, the prime minister called for a revival of traditional Christian values to counter Britain's "moral collapse".
> 
> He said "live and let live" had too often become "do what you please".
> 
> The PM said it was wrong to suggest that standing up for Christianity was "somehow doing down other faiths".
> 
> Describing himself as a "committed" but only "vaguely practising" Christian, the PM admitted he was "full of doubts" about big theological issues.
> 
> 'Don't do God'
> 
> But he staunchly defended the role of religion in politics and said the Bible in particular was crucial to British values.
> 
> Continue reading the main story
> How religious is the UK?
> Christian: 72%
> No religion: 16%
> Muslim: 3%
> Hindu: 1%
> Figures from 2001 Census
> In British Attitudes Survey in 2010, 43% were Christian and 51% no religion
> How is religion measured?
> 
> "We are a Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so," he told the audience at Christ Church.
> 
> "Let me be clear: I am not in any way saying that to have another faith - or no faith - is somehow wrong.
> 
> "I know and fully respect that many people in this country do not have a religion.
> 
> "And I am also incredibly proud that Britain is home to many different faith communities, who do so much to make our country stronger.
> 
> "But what I am saying is that the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today."



Regarding West they left some parts of Christianity for modernity and they still consider themselves Christians.


Do you have some plans to make UK and Englishstan and try to build mosques 



qamar1990 said:


> this is the response i expected from an indian who had nothing left to save face lol.



What face saving??

You have nothing to debate


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## Dubious

Hellraiser007 said:


> As said by Cameron himself.
> 
> BBC News - David Cameron says the UK is a Christian country
> 
> 
> Regarding West they left some parts of Christianity for modernity and they still consider themselves Christians.
> 
> 
> *Do you have some plans to make UK and Englishstan and try to build mosques*


 @Hellraiser007 Oay paindoo....UK has masjids ....large nice ones...not 1-2 but a handful!


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## Vinod2070

Hellraiser007 said:


> Becareful when using your words, post reported.
> 
> Scum is the word that is there in the mind of westerners all these years.
> 
> It seems off late the western Govts. are not tolerating this kind of nonsense in their lands and so they are in the job of purifying their lands.



Confused (or deliberately confusing) identity.

Too clever by half.

These are the things that describe some people.

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## Dubious

Yea, well, West is as Christian as the terrorists who call themselves Muslims....


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## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 Oay paindoo....UK has masjids ....large nice ones...not 1-2 but a handful!



Shows the mentality and modernity of west, compare it with Saudis and their B.S related to holy cities.


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## Dubious

Hellraiser007 said:


> Shows the mentality and modernity of west, compare it with Saudis and their B.S related to holy cities.


 @Hellraiser007 as I said:
Yea, well, West is as Christian as the terrorists who call themselves Muslims....

Like Terrorist drag Islam's name in and about, UK parades with the Christianity badge


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## bangbros

every action has equall and opposite reaction and an object will continue to be in motion as long as there is force behind it,this principle applies to all of us humans (muslims,hindus,christians) muslims will get payed for what they have done to other religions and its peoples same way vice versa


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## Amaa'n

Hellraiser007 said:


> Shows the mentality and modernity of west, compare it with Saudis and* their B.S related to holy cities*.


you wana elaborate this please, i need to get my head around what you just called b.s here?

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## Dubious

bangbros said:


> every action has equall and opposite reaction and an object will continue to be in motion as long as there is force behind it,this principle applies to all of us humans (muslims,hindus,christians) *muslims will get payed for what they have done to other religions and its peoples same way vice versa*


 @bangbros What HAVE THEY done?!


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## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 as I said:
> Yea, well, West is as Christian as the terrorists who call themselves Muslims....



They believe in Jesus and Bible, they go for church every sunday, they celebrate christmas what more you want??

There is no such thing as purest in Christianity as far as I know.

Pure is a delusion.


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## Dubious

Hellraiser007 said:


> They believe in Jesus and Bible, they go for church every sunday, they celebrate christmas what more you want??
> 
> There is no such thing as purest in Christianity as far as I know.
> 
> Pure is a delusion.


 @Hellraiser007 I believe in Jesus, I have been to the church...Yet I am not Christain....

Chirstmas is not even much of a part of Christianity as it is pagan...Yes, there is no pure in Christianity...it is either you are or you are not...If you are..then you are 1 of the many Anglican, Jehowa witness, Roman Catholic, Orthodox and whatnot... 

BTW, many question Jesus and the bible...Not sure which century you dropped from


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## bangbros

since ur a pakistani living in some eu nation,just look at whats happening to christians in ur own nation


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## Hellraiser007

balixd said:


> you wana elaborate this please, i need to get my head around what you just called b.s here?



Destroying holy cities of others and considering theirs as divine.

What more explanation and elaboration you want??


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## bangbros

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 I believe in Jesus, I have been to the church...Yet I am not Christain....
> 
> Chirstmas is not even much of a part of Christianity as it is pagan...Yes, there is no pure in Christianity...it is either you are or you are not...If you are..then you are 1 of the many Anglican, Jehowa witness, Roman Catholic, Orthodox and whatnot...
> 
> BTW, many question Jesus and the bible...Not sure which century you dropped from



i believe in jesus not in allah but i have been to mosque but yet i aint a muslims,so are u saying islam is pure

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## Dubious

bangbros said:


> since ur a pakistani living in some eu nation,just look at whats happening to christians in ur own nation


 @bangbros Pakistan is a big country...UK is still a small country yet it is also doing no less crimes....I know this much there are NO CHRISTIANS prosecuted in my area...I cant speak for a huge country like NO Americans or Indian can speak for their large nations as a whole!


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## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 I believe in Jesus, I have been to the church...Yet I am not Christain....
> 
> Chirstmas is not even much of a part of Christianity as it is pagan...Yes, there is no pure in Christianity...it is either you are or you are not...If you are..then you are 1 of the many Anglican, Jehowa witness, Roman Catholic, Orthodox and whatnot...
> 
> BTW, many question Jesus and the bible...Not sure which century you dropped from



There are many question on Islam also, only thing west did is they kept their religion aside and progressed. That do not mean they are ignoring Christianity.


They are in a mission to convert Chinese and they are almost successful there. Vatican is still a powerful centre.

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## Dubious

bangbros said:


> i believe in jesus not in allah but i have been to mosque but yet i aint a muslims,so are u saying islam is pure


 @bangbros good that you believe in Jesus and have been to a masjid...

And yes, I believe Islam is pure...



Hellraiser007 said:


> Destroying holy cities of others and considering theirs as divine.
> 
> What more explanation and elaboration you want??


 @Hellraiser007 OMG which HOLY CITY are you crying rivers about now?!


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## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> @bangbros good that you believe in Jesus and have been to a masjid...
> 
> And yes, I believe Islam is pure...
> 
> 
> @Hellraiser007 OMG which HOLY CITY are you crying rivers about now?!



Holy cities which were destroyed during the invasion of India and millions killed in the name of religion. These barbarians might be burning in hell right now.

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## bangbros

Talon said:


> @bangbros good that you believe in Jesus and have been to a masjid...
> 
> And yes, I believe Islam is pure...
> 
> 
> !



but i dont believe islam is pure the same way u dont believe christian is pure,i consider islam is a religion best suited for war lords


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## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> @bangbros Pakistan is a big country...UK is still a small country yet it is also doing no less crimes....I know this much there are NO CHRISTIANS prosecuted in my area...I cant speak for a huge country like NO Americans or Indian can speak for their large nations as a whole!



Talk about minority prosecutions in your country Pakistan, I don't think after the recent episode of persecuting minorities in their land, you people lost the right to talk about minority rights when you are a minority in foreign country.

There should be no double standards.

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## Dubious

Hellraiser007 said:


> There are many question on Islam also, only thing west did is they kept their religion aside and progressed. That do not mean they are ignoring Christianity.
> They are in a mission to convert Chinese and they are almost successful there. Vatican is still a powerful centre.


 @Hellraiser007 they had not much choice...A religion which forbids you to say the earth is not flat had to be kept aside if they wanted to prosper! 
Vatican is a piece of square where the pope comes out every now and then to wave about and node!  Not sure how powerful that is! 

News Features - Catholic Culture



> Q: Will the bombing raids on Iraq ever end?
> 
> A: I hope they will, but in the mean time, with the delegation received by the Pope, I will go to America in July. We accepted an invitation from Billy Graham. We will visit the lion's den and try to explain the situation of our people. We will meet a number of NGOs and religious and civil authorities. We are going not to ask for help, but to explain how the people suffer because of the bombing. If they stop the bombing we will not need any help. Iraq has everything it needs, except peace.


and this was in 1999....and now it is 2013, last i heard, America is still invading their lands! power and pope are 2 different entities! No one listens to him!



Hellraiser007 said:


> Holy cities which were destroyed during the invasion of India and *millions killed in the name of religion.* These *barbarians *might be* burning in hell* right now.


 @Hellraiser007 Name the holy city and the your source! 

Not sure which website trash you are eating



bangbros said:


> but i dont believe islam is pure the same way u dont believe christian is pure,i consider islam is a religion best suited for war lords


 @bangbros why so?! source and prove it not just allegations!



Hellraiser007 said:


> Talk about minority prosecutions in your country Pakistan, I don't think after the recent episode of persecuting minorities in their land, you people lost the right to talk about *minority rights *when you are a minority in foreign country.
> There should be no double standards.


 @Hellraiser007 your mind set has no place in a country which preaches EQUAL RIGHTS and SECULARISM..

i.e. West!


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## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 they had not much choice...A religion which forbids you to say the earth is not flat had to be kept aside if they wanted to prosper!
> Vatican is a piece of square where the pope comes out every now and then to wave about and node!  Not sure how powerful that is!
> 
> News Features - Catholic Culture
> 
> 
> and this was in 1999....and now it is 2013, last i heard, America is still invading their lands! power and pope are 2 different entities! No one listens to him!
> 
> @Hellraiser007 Name the holy city and the your source!
> 
> Not sure which website trash you are eating
> 
> @bangbros why so?! source and prove it not just allegations!




You are ignorant and about Islamic history of India from which your forefathers came. Better read it, any sane person will feel shame about the events.

We Hindus never forget those things.

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## Iggy

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 I believe in Jesus, I have been to the church...Yet I am not Christain....
> 
> *Chirstmas is not even much of a part of Christianity as it is pagan*...Yes, there is no pure in Christianity...it is either you are or you are not...If you are..then you are 1 of the many Anglican, Jehowa witness, Roman Catholic, Orthodox and whatnot...
> 
> BTW, many question Jesus and the bible...Not sure which century you dropped from




Seriously?? I mean we do have many sections in Christianity but Christmas is celebrated by all.. Just because you do not believe that Jesus was not born in December 25th, do not compare it with a pagan celebrations.. You have your own believes and we have our own believes.. Just because we do not believe in any other prophets that comes after Jesus, does not mean I have to make fun of it..

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## Dubious

Hellraiser007 said:


> You are ignorant and about Islamic history of India from which your forefathers came. Better read it, any sane person will feel shame about the events.
> 
> We Hindus never forget those things.


 @Hellraiser007 naah am just ignorant about your version of History...where the British call Bhagat Singh and his likes as terrorists, you people name them freedom fighters!

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## Hellraiser007

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 naah am just ignorant about your version of History...where the British call Bhagat Singh and his likes as terrorists, you people name them freedom fighters!



Better end our discussion here itself 

I have nothing to debate with you.


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## Amaa'n

looks like you are moanng about mughal era, or the delhi sultane, or the arrival of muslims in sub - continent, but my dear will you care to tell me what happened in Arabia? what happened in afghanistan, what happened in iraq, what happened in palestine , so stop bitching about this,, , the world is filled up with examples where people from different religions are living peacefully, look at Dubai, you have mosques in one corner and clubs/bars in other corner,,i calook at Japan i do not hear about muslims being violent in that country, why is it west all the time bitching about islamists?


Hellraiser007 said:


> Holy cities which were destroyed during the invasion of India and millions killed in the name of religion. These barbarians might be burning in hell right now.


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## Iggy

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 they had not much choice...A religion which forbids you to say the earth is not flat had to be kept aside if they wanted to prosper!
> Vatican is a piece of square where the pope comes out every now and then to wave about and node!  Not sure how powerful that is!



The important point is we learned from mistakes.. Pope asked for forgiveness from the peoples who were forced to become Christians.. We accepted that earth is round.. The current pope was brave enough to say Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good.. It have the courage to accept the bad things they done in past... Is this a good thing from a religion?


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## Dubious

seiko said:


> Seriously?? I mean we do have many sections in Christianity but Christmas is celebrated by all.. Just because you do not believe that Jesus was not born in December 25th, do not compare it with a pagan celebrations.. You have your own believes and we have our own believes.. Just because we do not believe in any other prophets that comes after Jesus, does not mean I have to make fun of it..


 @seiko 

[Cancel Christmas - Jesus was born June 17, say scientists | Mail Online




> Australian stargazer Dave Reneke used complex computer software to chart the exact positions of all celestial bodies and map the night sky as it would have appeared over the Holy Land more than 2,000 years ago.
> He discovered that a bright star really did appear over Bethlehem 2,000 years ago - but pinpointed the date of Christ's birth as June 17, and not December 25.


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## bangbros

Talon said:


> @Hellraiser007 they had not much choice...A religion which forbids you to say the earth is not flat had to be kept aside if they wanted to prosper!
> Vatican is a piece of square where the pope comes out every now and then to wave about and node!  Not sure how powerful that is!


 dude either ur a idiot or u dont know nothing about islam in ur very own religion has more mistakes than christian bible in ur koran it says semen comes from ribcage as a man u might know where it comes from proof(86:5-7)
i have many more but i believe this is enough

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## Hellraiser007

balixd said:


> looks like you are moanng about mughal era, or the delhi sultane, or the arrival of muslims in sub - continent, but my dear will you care to tell me what happened in Arabia? what happened in afghanistan, what happened in iraq, what happened in palestine , so stop bitching about this,, , the world is filled up with examples where people from different religions are living peacefully, look at Dubai, you have mosques in one corner and clubs/bars in other corner,,i calook at Japan i do not hear about muslims being violent in that country, why is it west all the time bitching about islamists?





You have a point and I accept that. As a Hindu I presented my point.

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## Dubious

balixd said:


> looks like you are moanng about mughal era, or the delhi sultane, or the arrival of muslims in sub - continent, but my dear will you care to tell me what happened in Arabia? what happened in afghanistan, what happened in iraq, what happened in palestine , so stop bitching about this,, , the world is filled up with examples where people from different religions are living peacefully, look at Dubai, you have mosques in one corner and clubs/bars in other corner,,i calook at Japan i do not hear about muslims being violent in that country, *why is it west all the time bitching about islamists*?


 @balixd habit 

The 1 who cries the loudest is heard the most


> The wheel that squeaks the loudest is the one that gets the grease.
> Read more at Josh Billings






> The empty vessel makes the loudest sound.
> William Shakespeare





> It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.
> Edmund Burke


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## Dubious

bangbros said:


> dude either ur a idiot or u dont know nothing about islam in ur very own religion has more mistakes than christian bible in ur koran it says semen comes from ribcage as a man u might know where it comes from proof(86:5-7)
> i have many more but i believe this is enough


 @bangbros stop reading anti Islamic sites...Had you read even 1 Islamic site you would have gotten your answer as it is a common question discussed!


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## Vinod2070

Talon said:


> @bangbros stop reading anti Islamic sites...Had you read even 1 Islamic site you would have gotten your answer as it is a common question discussed!



No. They are far more interesting.

And informative. 

Especially that Iranian guy. He has done a phenomenal job and the debates there expose it for all to see.


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## Amaa'n

bangbros said:


> dude either ur a idiot or u dont know nothing about islam in ur very own religion has more mistakes than christian bible in ur koran* it says semen comes from ribcage as a man u might know where it comes from proof(86:5-7)*
> i have many more but i believe this is enough


Goons like you have no right to raise fingers at other religion, especially when they know nothing about it. Quran also said that it is for those who have knowledge and common sense, if you dont have these two things than you are an idiot,
Please give o=us your source of this translation because last i checked Arabic was never studied by Indians....here is another version for you :


> 86:5
> to top
> 
> Sahih International
> So let man observe from what he was created.
> 86:6
> to top
> 
> Sahih International
> *He was created from a fluid, ejected,
> 86:7
> 
> emerging* from between the backbone and the ribs.


now listen you idiot it says that Fluid is formed in abdominal region, it does not say semen, sperm or any other part of the body, now go and study the composition of Semen, The semen contains many things. Between 95 to 98% of it consists of fructose, prostaglandin hormones, metal and salt ions, lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids. All those are produced from the glands located in abdomen. Between 2 to 5% of it consists of the sperms produced in the testicles. .....
@Aeronaut , @nuclearpak @Loki can you close this thread because people here have come far from civilization

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