# J-XY - maybe J-35 - next generation carrier-borne fighter



## Deino

Since in recent days the rumours are again getting more and more intense, some even speaking of a F-20-variant having already won, while others still take the decision not made yet, I anyway start a new thread.

Here are at least a few posts that hint into that direction ...

https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2412909&extra=page=1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/908648781054328832*
*
And finally I stumbled across this one ...

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2017-09-18/doc-ifykywuc6028805.shtml

If not a fake again it looks as if the carrier-mock-up & teststand at Dalian has a fighter mock-up added.

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## Imran Khan

its too big for carriers my two cents

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## lmjiao

Probably X=2, Y=0

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## Deino

Does anyone know if this image from Wuhan is indeed real?

I'm a bit surprised that by now no-one else posted it here.

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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Since in recent days the rumours are again getting more and more intense, some even speaking of a F-20-variant having already won, while others still take the decision not made yet, I anyway start a new thread.



Actually, instead of carrier-based J-20, what yikecat meant is that there will be a navalized version of J-20.

https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2411833&page=24#pid74540454




Deino said:


> Does anyone know if this image from Wuhan is indeed real?
> 
> I'm a bit surprised that by now no-one else posted it here.







Photo taken on Nov. 9, 2014.

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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> Actually, instead of carrier-based J-20, what yikecat meant is that there will be a navalized version of J-20.



Interesting; so the J-20 vs FC-31 competition for the carrier-based fighter contract is still ongoing? Or would that be a completely new clean-sheet fighter?

P.S. Doesn't "上舰" literally translate to "shipborne"?


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## rcrmj

Deino said:


> Does anyone know if this image from Wuhan is indeed real?
> 
> I'm a bit surprised that by now no-one else posted it here.


fake, not J-20 mock-up dont look too much into it````he works there, he knows whats on that deck`````



星海军事 said:


> Actually, instead of carrier-based J-20, what yikecat meant is that there will be a navalized version of J-20.
> 
> https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2411833&page=24#pid74540454
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken on Nov. 9, 2014.


Yikecat is more into radars and sort of things```but on "who" is going to "上舰" we still need source from whom is related "部门"```

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## leapx

Imran Khan said:


> its too big for carriers my two cents


It is smaller than J-15. Although I doubt it too

there is a lot work to do to make a carrier-borne version while Chengdu does not have experience.

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## Figaro

Imran Khan said:


> its too big for carriers my two cents


It's smaller than the both the J-15 and Su-33 ...

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## rcrmj

AC based aircraft doesnt mean the bigger the better```huge amount of initial debates and researches were done, a period of time, I'd say a decade, just for this matter, and this does not include decades of ground researches and theories. I believe the navy will choose the one that really fits the need to deter any forseeable threats for 30 years.
After 3-5 years, some of those research papers will go public for us to consume.

1989-2017, 28 long f*cking years, you have no idea how much pressure, sacrifice, sorrow, discrimination and ideology in-fights these people have to go through to build up this solid, efficient and progressive fundation`````2019 is a good year, fans like us will be very excited````finger crossed``!!

oh, they also had proposed the theory of *one stealth fight teamed with 2-4 UAVs, controls and maneuvers are all sychronized acting as one (assisted with AI technology, not as simple as current "control-and -command")*``UAVS will carry loads of extra weapons, no G limits, can expose themselves in air-to-air fights by activating their sensors, so the manned fighter does not have to activate its own, so can aviod to increase the possibility of "revealing" itself infront enemy targets````

both China and U.S went quite far into this now``it is now a competition of who will first to realize it!



leapx said:


> It is smaller than J-15. Although I doubt it too
> 
> there is a lot work to do to make a carrier-borne version while Chengdu does not have experience.


well, thats they can share, not big deal```otherwise there wont be the saying “集大成者” lo```



samsara said:


> The idea of SWARM UAVs controlled by stealth fighter (J-20 etc) is mentioned in the Nikkei's FT article posted here.


still analyze on their Western conventional thoughts````it will take time for them to accept the fact that in some areas we are ahead of them by a long short`````

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## Tang_BJ

Deino said:


> Does anyone know if this image from Wuhan is indeed real?
> 
> I'm a bit surprised that by now no-one else posted it here.


at first， it's from Wuhan, but unfornately, that plane is not J20, still the old J15.
second, this image is NOT taken these days, not even this year. one evidence is that building is already renovated for the 003 carrier, 003 carrier is not Russian-style ski-jumping flight deck， so the roof is flat now.

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## Stealth

Imran Khan said:


> its too big for carriers my two cents



*2 Big 2 Bulky *


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## Figaro

Stealth said:


> *2 Big 2 Bulky *


*What are you even talking about?*


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## samsara

JSCh said:


> * Future Chinese aircraft carriers to feature J-20, J-31 stealth fighters *
> By Deng Xiaoci Source:Global Times Published: 2017/12/6 22:48:40
> 
> China's future straight-deck aircraft carriers with the electromagnetic launcher system will carry fifth-generation jet fighters like J-20 and J-31, Chinese experts said on Wednesday, following reports that Chinese first home-grown aircraft carrier is close to completing a mooring test.
> 
> The first domestically-built aircraft carrier will soon take the sea test, according to Military Time, a China Central Television military program on Saturday.
> 
> Since the warship, widely known as the Type 001A, like the country's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, uses an upward ski jump-style deck, the Chinese J-15 fighters will be the top option for its carrier-based aircraft, the report said.
> 
> J-15 fighters, nicknamed the Flying Shark, took off and landed on the Liaoning for the first time in 2012, and more than 20 of these jets have trained on it.
> 
> The J-20 and J-31 will surely be installed on future Chinese aircraft carriers with the catapult system, to protect the carriers, Yin Zhuo, a senior researcher at the PLA Naval Equipment Research Center, told the Military Time.
> 
> Yin predicted the J-15 fighters on the Type 001A will be around 40, about the same as that for Liaoning ship.
> 
> Song Zhongping, a TV commentator and military expert, told the Global Times that "It is more likely that J-15 fighters and improved versions will be on board together with stealth fighters such as the J-20 and J-31, as they will be playing different roles."
> 
> However, Song pointed out that since the J-20 and J-31 are primarily designed for the air force, adapting them as navy fighters will entail some costs. "The J-20 will be more expensive to modify than the J-31."
> 
> The sea test for the Type-001A could be conducted as early as the beginning of next year, Zhang Ye, a research fellow at the People's Liberation Army Naval Research Institute, told the Global Times.


Good news! Very interesting piece of news!!

*This article provides the very strong indications even affirmation of China's near future plans:*

The 1st homegrown carrier (the 2nd carrier; *Type 001A*) will soon complete its mooring test and will conduct its sea trial in the early of 2018 -- Note about the Type reference by China's own publication, I wonder why the outside world won't just follow the same designation as used by the owner's side instead of calling it differently creating naming confusion _for us, the bystanders or non-stakeholders._ 
EMALS for the 2nd homegrown carrier (the 3rd carrier; straight-deck, *Type 002* -- _this_ article does _not_ mention the type coding, my own reminder).
The J-20 will have its navalized version.
The brandnew J-31 will be *materialized into real product* as well as will have its navalized version too, dismiss any pessimism that it's funded only by maker (Shenyang Aircraft Corporation), not supported by PLA and other similar wild speculations. The J-31 will be China's 2nd fifth-generation fighter jet, the only nation that will have two advanced models following the USA.

From: *Future Chinese aircraft carriers to feature J-20, J-31 stealth fighters - Global Times (06 DEC)*
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1079061.shtml

Well, a very steady progress and systematical development! Congratulations China for the successful approaches as proven repeatedly over time  

Btw I will take any published article by the Global Times and other China's major publication incl. the CCTV at higher degree of level of confidence on news concerning China incl. the military matters over any shrimp or NATO think-tanks... based on own observation of their approaches in information releases, what's said & what's not said.


_*"One step at a time is good walking." - Chinese Proverb*_
。。。

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> our EMALs is at least a generation ahead of U.S's thats what the people from the circle said````but I will take their words hundred times creditable than any of your "source" or convinent thoughts out there in the West.
> 
> I believe this is a fact as much as I believe we are 20 years behind the U.S in Turbofan technologies



Claiming that the Chinese EM catapult is more advanced than the US one would require access to the engineering documents and test data of both systems. Has it crossed anyone's mind how Chinese engineers managed to get their hands on the EMALS' blueprints or its test data?



samsara said:


> Good news! Very interesting piece of news!!
> 
> *This article provides the very strong indications even affirmation of China's near future plans:*
> 
> The 1st homegrown carrier (the 2nd carrier; *Type 001A*) will soon complete its mooring test and will conduct its sea trial in the early of 2018 -- Note about the Type reference by China's own publication, I wonder why the outside world won't just follow the same designation as used by the owner's side instead of calling it differently creating naming confusion _for us, the bystanders or non-stakeholders._
> EMALS for the 2nd homegrown carrier (the 3rd carrier; straight-deck, *Type 002* -- article does _not_ mention it, my own reminder).
> The J-20 will have its navalized version.
> The brandnew J-31 will be *materialized into real product* as well as will have its navalized version too, dismiss any pessimism that it's funded only by maker (Shenyang Aircraft Corporation), not supported by PLA and other similar wild speculations. The J-31 will be China's 2nd fifth-generation fighter jet, the only nation that will have two advanced models following the USA.
> 
> From: *Future Chinese aircraft carriers to feature J-20, J-31 stealth fighters - Global Times (06 DEC)*
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1079061.shtml
> 
> Well, a very steady progress and systematical development! Congratulations China for the successful approaches as proven repeatedly over time
> 
> Btw I will take any published article by the Global Times and other China's major publication incl. the CCTV at higher degree of level of confidence on news concerning China incl. the military matters over any shrimp or NATO think-tanks... based on own observation of their approaches in information releases, what's said & what's not said.
> 
> 
> _*"One step at a time is good walking." - Chinese Proverb*_
> 。。。



Admiral Yin Zhuo did not explicitly say that the J-20 & FC-31 will definitely serve on PLAN carriers. And quite frankly the statement is more likely his own opinion rather than official confirmation of such.

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## samsara

SinoSoldier said:


> Claiming that the Chinese EM catapult is more advanced than the US one would require access to the engineering documents and test data of both systems. Has it crossed anyone's mind how Chinese engineers managed to get their hands on the EMALS' blueprints or its test data?
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Yin Zhuo did not explicitly say that the J-20 & FC-31 will definitely serve on PLAN carriers. And quite frankly the statement is more likely his own opinion rather than official confirmation of such.


From this line in that article:

*The J-20 and J-31 will surely be installed on future Chinese aircraft carriers with the catapult system, to protect the carriers, Yin Zhuo, a senior researcher at the PLA Naval Equipment Research Center, told the Military Time. *

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## Akasa

samsara said:


> From this line in that article:
> 
> *The J-20 and J-31 will surely be installed on future Chinese aircraft carriers with the catapult system, to protect the carriers, Yin Zhuo, a senior researcher at the PLA Naval Equipment Research Center, told the Military Time. *



He has given similar statements before and this is likely another piece of speculation (or opinion) on his part. The PLAN next-generation fighter tender is still ongoing, although it does seem that the FC-31 is being favorably looked upon.


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## clarkgap

samsara said:


> From this line in that article:
> 
> *The J-20 and J-31 will surely be installed on future Chinese aircraft carriers with the catapult system, to protect the carriers, Yin Zhuo, a senior researcher at the PLA Naval Equipment Research Center, told the Military Time. *



Yizhuo is not a reliable source.

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## samsara

I wrote down here my bet or faith... allow time to divulge its truth. Not pretty long, just another 12 to 24 months at most. Let's see again by then

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> I wrote down here my bet or faith... allow time to divulge its truth. Not pretty long, just another 12 to 24 months at most. Let's see again by then


I think construction of the various modules began quite a long time ago. At this point, the EM catapult is mature enough and awaiting installation on the new CATOBAR carrier. I personally think we will be seeing signs of assembly by next year, assuming that there are no further delays in the EM vs Steam catapult competition.



clarkgap said:


> Yizhuo is not a reliable source.


Yin Zhuo might not be reliable himself but the essence of his statement is true. At this point, whoever wins the navalized J-20 or FC-31 tender will be the next carrier aircraft. Having both FC-31 and J-20 navalized and placed on a carrier would be near impossible given resource allocation/development cycle.

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## 52051

There is no such thing as J-31 on China's future CV, actually there is no such thing as J-31 since PLA still refuse to fund or officially support this SAC's failed attemp at 5gen fighter.

Btw, there are rumors that the CCP/PLA become so disappointment about SAC to the degree they want to setup a new fighter manufaturer elsewhere, and by putting Yang Wei at a higher position (standing memeber of central committe) than the leader of AVIC also show the rumor could has some creditablity.

So far, A modified J-20 is possible, but NAVY may want their own type of stealth fighter as well.

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## Akasa

52051 said:


> There is no such thing as J-31 on China's future CV, actually there is no such thing as J-31 since PLA still refuse to fund or officially support this SAC's failed attemp at 5gen fighter.
> 
> Btw, there are rumors that the CCP/PLA become so disappointment about SAC to the degree they want to setup a new fighter manufaturer elsewhere, and by putting Yang Wei at a higher position (standing memeber of central committe) than the leader of AVIC also show the rumor could has some creditablity.
> 
> So far, A modified J-20 is possible, but NAVY may want their own type of stealth fighter as well.



A modified FC-31 is still competing for the tender, as far as the most recent rumors go, so there is still a possibility of a navalized FC-31 even if the PLAN is not currently funding it. On the other hand, there has been barely any talk of a navalized J-20 from credible or official sources.


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## Figaro

52051 said:


> There is no such thing as J-31 on China's future CV, actually there is no such thing as J-31 since PLA still refuse to fund or officially support this SAC's failed attemp at 5gen fighter.
> 
> Btw, there are rumors that the CCP/PLA become so disappointment about SAC to the degree they want to setup a new fighter manufaturer elsewhere, and by putting Yang Wei at a higher position (standing memeber of central committe) than the leader of AVIC also show the rumor could has some creditablity.
> 
> So far, A modified J-20 is possible, but NAVY may want their own type of stealth fighter as well.


I wouldn't be jumping to that conclusion if I were you. Given recent photos and a completely revamped FC-31V2 appearing, I would say the program has gained steam as opposed to a "failed attempt". It's clear that SAC is trying their best to pitch the FC-31 to the PLAN as part of the naval tender and they're finally trying pretty hard. Personally, I think a navalized J-10 with stealth characteristics would be the most ideal carrier fighter


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## 52051

Figaro said:


> I wouldn't be jumping to that conclusion if I were you. Given recent photos and a completely revamped FC-31V2 appearing, I would say the program has gained steam as opposed to a "failed attempt". It's clear that SAC is trying their best to pitch the FC-31 to the PLAN as part of the naval tender and they're finally trying pretty hard. Personally, I think a navalized J-10 with stealth characteristics would be the most ideal carrier fighter



I wouldn't jump to conclusion to claim I were jumped to conclusion if I were you, dont waste my time on this, nowadays, it is still told as FC-31, and dont get a "J" there, therefore no official support, just SAC's wishful thoughts.

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## Akasa

52051 said:


> I wouldn't jump to conclusion to claim I were jumped to conclusion if I were you, dont waste my time on this, nowadays, it is still told as FC-31, and dont get a "J" there, therefore no official support, just SAC's wishful thoughts.



There's nothing keeping the PLAN for assessing and adopting the FC-31 in the future. If it meets all the criteria, there's no reason why it shouldn't be.


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## 52051

SinoSoldier said:


> There's nothing keeping the PLAN for assessing and adopting the FC-31 in the future. If it meets all the criteria, there's no reason why it shouldn't be.



PLAN perfer a open competition instead of a close doored deal, and by open competition, given SAC's trackrecord, they will lose.

Also, one main reason PLAAF show little interests in FC-31, besides SAC's track record, is the range issue of a middle-size fighter.

And for a navy air-superiority fighter, who serves as the backbone of fleet defence, range should be a even more important concern in the age of wide-adoptation of long-ranged anti-ship missiles, so I suspect they will prefer a heavy fighter for its better range, could be of a J-20 variartion or something completely new.

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## Akasa

52051 said:


> PLAN perfer a open competition instead of a close doored deal, and by open competition, given SAC's trackrecord, they will lose.
> 
> Also, one main reason PLAAF show little interests in FC-31, besides SAC's track record, is the range issue of a middle-size fighter.
> 
> And for a navy air-superiority fighter, who serves as the backbone of fleet defence, range should be a even more important concern in the age of wide-adoptation of long-ranged anti-ship missiles, so I suspect they will prefer a heavy fighter for its better range, could be of a J-20 variartion or something completely new.



The range of the FC-31 can be increased by enlarging its wing area, while the smaller size of the FC-31 brings its own set of advantages to the air wing. From what we know of the "competition", the PLAN prefers a medium-sized heavyweight fighter i.e. F-35-class jets.


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## 52051

SinoSoldier said:


> The range of the FC-31 can be increased by enlarging its wing area, while the smaller size of the FC-31 brings its own set of advantages to the air wing. From what we know of the "competition", the PLAN prefers a medium-sized heavyweight fighter i.e. F-35-class jets.



No matter how larger, it is still smaller than a heavy fighter like J-20.

Besides, I heard SAC has difficulties in developing the flight control system of FC-31, could be lack of funds or sheer imcompentence or both, but anyway, anyone can see FC-31 have zero chance here: 

It is poorly funded, poorly supported, and has lost support from higher-ups (with the recent promotion of Yang Wei and recent rumors of a new fighter manufacturer), the future of FC-31 project is pretty bleak.

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## Akasa

52051 said:


> No matter how larger, it is still smaller than a heavy fighter like J-20.
> 
> Besides, I heard SAC has difficulties in developing the flight control system of FC-31, could be lack of funds or sheer imcompentence or both, but anyway, anyone can see FC-31 have zero chance here:
> 
> It is poorly funded, poorly supported, and has lost support from higher-ups (with the recent promotion of Yang Wei and recent rumors of a new fighter manufacturer), the future of FC-31 project is pretty bleak.



Again, smaller does not mean "inferior" in any way. It may not have PLAN endorsement _yet_, but that doesn't say anything of its ability to obtain military backing in the future; in fact, the drastically-increased frequency of flight tests in the past few weeks leads me to suspect that it has received some form of backing already.


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## kurutoga

PLAN needs both land-based and ship-based aircrafts. So it makes sense to have both jets sharing something for logistic reasons.


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## 52051

SinoSoldier said:


> Again, smaller does not mean "inferior" in any way. It may not have PLAN endorsement _yet_, but that doesn't say anything of its ability to obtain military backing in the future; in fact, the drastically-increased frequency of flight tests in the past few weeks leads me to suspect that it has received some form of backing already.



In most cases smaller means less space to accommodate fuel and usually result in less range, otherwise why wasting time on developing heavier fighters.

Lets stop here.

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## Akasa

52051 said:


> In most cases smaller means less space to accommodate fuel and usually result in less range, otherwise why wasting time on developing heavier fighters.
> 
> Lets stop here.



On the other hand, why are air forces around the globe still procuring medium- and lightweight fighters? Both classes of jets bring about their own set of advantages and disadvantages, as do the FC-31 and J-20.


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## 52051

> It seems like you're a CAC fanboy ... why so much hatred towards SAC? They have definitely improved the quality of their operations and manufacturing processes. There is nothing to assume why the FC-31 is dead. Navalizing a J-20 is much harder than a FC-31 type, whose design is optimal for a carrier aircraft. The only problem with the FC-31 being the next gen carrier fighter is it's weak RD-33/WS-13 engines ...



I am actually a fanboy of compentence, not a fanboy of CAC, I am from Beijing, has no relations in Chengdu, actually my mother side of familiy has a Northeast root.

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## Brainsucker

Figaro said:


> It seems like you're a CAC fanboy ... why so much hatred towards SAC? They have definitely improved the quality of their operations and manufacturing processes. There is nothing to assume why the FC-31 is dead. Navalizing a J-20 is much harder than a FC-31 type, whose design is optimal for a carrier aircraft. The only problem with the FC-31 being the next gen carrier fighter *is it's weak RD-33/WS-13 engines* ...



But isn't that the engine to be considered as the main factor why FC-31 will become a Carrier Aircraft or not, is it? If China can develop a more powerful engine with RD-33 / WS-13 engine size, maybe FC-31 will have a future in the next gen Carrier Aircraft. But what if they not, or not yet capable / has any of it?

I'm curious if FC-31 can be equipped with twin AL-31 / WS-10X engine. But it means that they have to change the size. and it won't be an FC-31 anymore.


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## Figaro

Brainsucker said:


> But isn't that the engine to be considered as the main factor why FC-31 will become a Carrier Aircraft or not, is it? If China can develop a more powerful engine with RD-33 / WS-13 engine size, maybe FC-31 will have a future in the next gen Carrier Aircraft. But what if they not, or not yet capable / has any of it?
> 
> I'm curious if FC-31 can be equipped with twin AL-31 / WS-10X engine. But it means that they have to change the size. and it won't be an FC-31 anymore.


Given that the FC-31 is a light/medium fighter, it doesn’t necessarily need a very large thrust turbofan like the WS-15 or even a WS-10 type. That would be pretty overkill. Allow me to rephrase ... the FC-31 needs a much more advanced engine based on a new core design that enables it to supercruise and have high fuel efficiency. The thrust doesn’t need a huge increase but the antiquated RD-33/WS-13 copy really needs to be ditched for the FC-31 to become fifth generation. I believe the engine debate is one of the reasons why the FC-31 hasn’t won over the J-20 in the carrier competition ...


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## Ultima Thule

52051 said:


> In most cases smaller means less space to accommodate fuel and usually result in less range, otherwise why wasting time on developing heavier fighters.
> 
> Lets stop here.


AAR will also increase range of FC-31, if install in the future and not to forget FC-31 currently not a finish product bro


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## Brainsucker

Figaro said:


> Given that the FC-31 is a light/medium fighter, it doesn’t necessarily need a very large thrust turbofan like the WS-15 or even a WS-10 type. That would be pretty overkill. Allow me to rephrase ... the FC-31 needs a much more advanced engine based on a new core design that enables it to supercruise and have high fuel efficiency. The thrust doesn’t need a huge increase but the antiquated RD-33/WS-13 copy really needs to be ditched for the FC-31 to become fifth generation. I believe the engine debate is one of the reasons why the FC-31 hasn’t won over the J-20 in the carrier competition ...



Yes, I agree. It's the RD-33/WS-13 that make FC-31 chance is quite low for now. But forget about supercruise and high fuel efficiency. One question, forget about the next gen AC with catapult. But can FC-31 take off from Liaoning in full load with double RD-33 / WS-13 Engine?


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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> not canceled, too much changes, caused technological difficulties and hence delay```the AWACs is roughly the size of E-2C``````and the 5th gen AC based stealth fight program is about to freeze the technology prospect, therefore will soon entre the second phase of "chucking" out prototypes `````````but I still don not know how it looks`````````could be a hybrid, or could be just like her mon```



My understanding is that the PLAN wants a medium-sized heavyweight 5th generation fighter, and the contenders are 601 and 611. The 601 institute is presenting a navalized 3.0 version of the FC-31 while we don't know what 611 is developing.

How close is this to the information you have?



星海军事 said:


> The construction has never begun until this year.



Do we have any updates on the PLAN 5th generation fighter program? I've been hearing that it's a competition between SAC & CAC (FC-31 vs a J-20 variant?). When can we expect the results to come out?


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## randomradio

Deino said:


> Since in recent days the rumours are again getting more and more intense, some even speaking of a F-20-variant having already won, while others still take the decision not made yet, I anyway start a new thread.
> 
> Here are at least a few posts that hint into that direction ...
> 
> https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2412909&extra=page=1
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/908648781054328832*
> *
> And finally I stumbled across this one ...
> 
> http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2017-09-18/doc-ifykywuc6028805.shtml
> 
> If not a fake again it looks as if the carrier-mock-up & teststand at Dalian has a fighter mock-up added.
> 
> View attachment 426471



I bet we will know only after it has undergone first flight.

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## S10

I think they should enlarge the design based on J-31, and use WS-15. Adding side weapon bays to carry PL-10 wouldn't be a bad idea either, leaving the main bay to carry offensive munitions.

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## Akasa

S10 said:


> I think they should enlarge the design based on J-31, and use WS-15. Adding side weapon bays to carry PL-10 wouldn't be a bad idea either, leaving the main bay to carry offensive munitions.



Then it wouldn't be the "J-31". It would be a new fighter, not only in model but in class & type.

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## ziaulislam

china needs f-35 like aircraft with VTOL


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## Ultima Thule

ziaulislam said:


> china needs f-35 like aircraft with VTOL


But f-35 haven't VTOL (with weapons loadout)  capabilities instead short takeoff and vertical landing ( STOVL)


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## Deino

First of all I don't know how reliable this rumour is, however at .... (where I found this one) is currently a heated debate going on:

https://www.weibo.com/1240246333/FDnc4zkUX



> "Key points: Shenyang won the winning ribbon carrier machine. Rhombic chicken, foldable main wing, double hair WS19. Head and tail like 20, chicken wings to enlarge the area, the main wing and the tail can be folded, DSi Inlet, supersonic cruising capacity of not less than half an hour. Basically in the 30 ton level. In fact, it's a 31 enlarged version."
> 划重点：沈阳中标丝带舰载机。菱形鸡头，可折叠主翼，双发WS19 。头和尾像歼20，鸡翼面积进行放大，主翼和尾翼可以折叠，DSI进气道，超音速巡航能力不低于半个小时。基本上在30吨级左右。其实就是31的放大版。





> (The post contained/quoted another post that is now deleted. If anyone saw it, let us know what it said.)
> Does it say there are canards (chicken wings)? How does "head and tail like J-20" and (possibly) canards go with enlarged FC-31?



What do you think?

Deino

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## clarkgap

Deino said:


> First of all I don't know how reliable this rumour is, however at the SDF (where I found this one) is currently a heated debate going on:
> 
> https://www.weibo.com/1240246333/FDnc4zkUX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Deino



Unreliable source. Several years ago he had told about this.

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## Deino

Thank you ...

Any way what a reliable or realistic guess when we will be told what type was chosen?


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## Akasa

Cross-post from SDF

Does anybody know if the blogger "*pb19980515*" is a reliable insider or poster? Does he have a track record of giving relatively credible information?

He apparently divulged some information regarding the PLAN's next-generation carrier-based fighter & KJ-600.

From an October 2017 post:


> 两年 ，又是各种惊喜，什么固定翼舰载预警机 弹射航母 四代舰载机（19年底有可能首飞）都是这两年，18 19 两个好年份。


He thinks that the carrier-based 5th gen fighter might fly by the end of 2019.

A more recent claim that the KJ-600 will fly in approximately in a year or so:


> 舰载预警机这两年飞（一年多点）。



Something regarding the J-20 and its network centric warfare capabilities (can somebody translate this portion accurately?):


> 主要是歼20上的信息感知和数据共享能力（这一块代表了新的空战战术理念 需要长期的空战演练和技术改进 ）。



Another recent claim that the carrier-based 5th generation fighter will fly these two years (2018 and 2019, presumably):


> 四代舰载机也是这两年飞。



Anybody know this guy? Or provide a more accurate translation of the below thread (where the information comes from)?
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2416270


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## rcrmj

no pb is not "reliable"````he just works on AC and collecting data, and sometimes be gone for few months on high seas without popping up in any domestic forums```````

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> no pb is not "reliable"````he just works on AC and collecting data, and sometimes be gone for few months on high seas without popping up in any domestic forums```````



To be frank that's a pretty credible location (on the high seas, collecting data) to get gossip & "leaks" from the higher-ups.


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## shadows888

SinoSoldier said:


> Cross-post from SDF
> 
> Does anybody know if the blogger "*pb19980515*" is a reliable insider or poster? Does he have a track record of giving relatively credible information?
> 
> He apparently divulged some information regarding the PLAN's next-generation carrier-based fighter & KJ-600.
> 
> From an October 2017 post:
> 
> He thinks that the carrier-based 5th gen fighter might fly by the end of 2019.
> 
> A more recent claim that the KJ-600 will fly in approximately in a year or so:
> 
> 
> Something regarding the J-20 and its network centric warfare capabilities (can somebody translate this portion accurately?):
> 
> 
> Another recent claim that the carrier-based 5th generation fighter will fly these two years (2018 and 2019, presumably):
> 
> 
> Anybody know this guy? Or provide a more accurate translation of the below thread (where the information comes from)?
> https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2416270



frankly too much speculation. of course a carrier base 5th gen fighter to be ready in 2 years would have to be the J-31 but I have my doubts.


----------



## Akasa

shadows888 said:


> frankly too much speculation. of course a carrier base 5th gen fighter to be ready in 2 years would have to be the J-31 but I have my doubts.



He is allegedly on the J-15 data collection team and has made semi-accurate predictions in the past. Maybe he's privy to information that others wouldn't know.


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## 52051

shadows888 said:


> frankly too much speculation. of course a carrier base 5th gen fighter to be ready in 2 years would have to be the J-31 but I have my doubts.



Could be a J-20 navy version.

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## Akasa

52051 said:


> Could be a J-20 navy version.



Highly unlikely, at least according to open opinion. There is also no hint or evidence of a naval J-20 under development whereas there is of a FC-31-based carrier variant.


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## Brainsucker

SinoSoldier said:


> Highly unlikely, at least according to open opinion. There is also no hint or evidence of a naval J-20 under development whereas there is of a FC-31-based carrier variant.



I'm curious. Can J-20 converted to a carrier based fighter? If it can, what does J-20 need to do so?


----------



## Akasa

Brainsucker said:


> I'm curious. Can J-20 converted to a carrier based fighter? If it can, what does J-20 need to do so?



Sure, it can, but it doesn't mean it'll be effective (or more so than the FC-31) at the job, which will require low-speed handling abilities. They would need to increase its wingspan, possibly make modifications to the location of the canards (requiring essentially a complete airframe redesign), add catapult-capable landing gear, and folding wings.

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## Deino

SinoSoldier said:


> Sure, it can, but it doesn't mean it'll be effective (or more so than the FC-31) at the job, which will require low-speed handling abilities. They would need to increase its wingspan, possibly make modifications to the location of the canards (requiring essentially a complete airframe redesign), add catapult-capable landing gear, and folding wings.




Even if I agree with you, exactly the same changes will be required for any naval capable FC-31.... so if it fits better, if these changes are less demanding and the result is then easier to archive than converting a J-20 remains to be seen. And if that alleged FC-31V3 is indeed even enlarged, it it is even more a new aircraft; at least more than a J-20-based design. 

Deino


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Even if I agree with you, exactly the same changes will be required for any naval capable FC-31.... so if it fits better, if these changes are less demanding and the result is then easier to archive than converting a J-20 remains to be seen. And if that alleged FC-31V3 is indeed even enlarged, it it is even more a new aircraft; at least more than a J-20-based design.
> 
> Deino



The J-20's aerodynamic layout (I'm not an expert on this but this seems to be the opinion of many Chinese observers) is what differentiates the J-20 from the FC-31 when it comes to potential carrier use, yes, both will need to be modified. A larger FC-31 variant would be no more a "new version" than the F-35C is of the F-35A; we are not talking about enlarging the entire airframe but rather the wings so that it can give more lift during carrier takeoff.

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## mzeeshanfahd

52051 said:


> There is no such thing as J-31 on China's future CV, actually there is no such thing as J-31 since PLA still refuse to fund or officially support this SAC's failed attemp at 5gen fighter.
> 
> Btw, there are rumors that the CCP/PLA become so disappointment about SAC to the degree they want to setup a new fighter manufaturer elsewhere, and by putting Yang Wei at a higher position (standing memeber of central committe) than the leader of AVIC also show the rumor could has some creditablity.
> 
> So far, A modified J-20 is possible, but NAVY may want their own type of stealth fighter as well.



what do you say about the hidden CAC another 5th gen fighter ..... what was its name j-14 or something like that ?????



SinoSoldier said:


> My understanding is that the PLAN wants a medium-sized heavyweight 5th generation fighter, and the contenders are 601 and 611. The 601 institute is presenting a navalized 3.0 version of the FC-31 while we don't know what 611 is developing.
> 
> How close is this to the information you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Do we have any updates on the PLAN 5th generation fighter program? I've been hearing that it's a competition between SAC & CAC (FC-31 vs a J-20 variant?). When can we expect the results to come out?



wasn't it FC-31 vs j-14 ????


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## Brainsucker

mzeeshanfahd said:


> what do you say about the hidden CAC another 5th gen fighter ..... what was its name j-14 or something like that ?????
> 
> wasn't it FC-31 vs j-14 ????
> 
> View attachment 451457
> View attachment 451458
> 
> View attachment 451459



What is J-14, is it real?


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## mzeeshanfahd

Brainsucker said:


> What is J-14, is it real?



As per the chinese web site and as I understood from the google translate .... this is supposed to be the CAC candidate of medium class 5th gen fighter .... I do not know .... this what I am asking ???


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## lcloo

I don't believe J14 actually exist, simply because in Chinese 14 can be pronounced as "yao si" which sounds similar to "want to die". Although PLA is not superstitious, it is still not a preferred number.

Thus we have only J10, J11, J12 (cancelled project), J15 and J16. And before this, we have J6, J7, J8 and J9 (cancelled project).

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## Deino

mzeeshanfahd said:


> what do you say about the hidden CAC another 5th gen fighter ..... what was its name j-14 or something like that ?????
> 
> wasn't it FC-31 vs j-14 ????



To admit we should take much more care not to mix expectations, rumours and esp. fan-arts, faked images and false CGs with the real fifth generation carrier project.

AFAIK the J-14-designation is a hoax.

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## S10

Empty Weight: 14 tons
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 28 to 30 tons
Internal Fuel: 7 tons
Armament Load: 8 tons, including external loads
Loadout Configuration: Air Superiority (6X medium range AA missiles or 4X long range AA missiles), Ground Strike (12X Small Diameter Bombs, or 4X 500kg laser guided bombs, or 4X anti-radiation missiles)
Powerplant: 2X WS-13E rated at 90kN max thrust each, later replaced by WS-19 rated at roughly 110kN each

- Capable of limited supercruise
- Low radar and IR signature design
- Advanced sensors and fusion of battlefield information, networking with ships and planes
- Based on modified J-31 design
- First flight around late 2019 or early 2020
- WS-19 will be upgraded later to increase thrust and adding thrust vectoring

https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2461769-1-1.html

That's all according to a poster pb, known as one of the insiders.

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## Beast

Sounds logical but WS-19 thrust of 110kn sounds a high goal to set.

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## S10

Beast said:


> Sounds logical but WS-19 thrust of 110kn sounds a high goal to set.


GE F414 EPE is rated at 120kN max thrust. Considering WS-19 is China's next generation medium thrust engine, it's not at all surprising.


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## Deino

S10 said:


> GE F414 EPE is rated at 120kN max thrust. Considering WS-19 is China's next generation medium thrust engine, it's not at all surprising.




To admit in his case I fully agree with @Beast, ... even if I can understand your point, 120 kN for an engine in the medium thrust / medium size class is a word, especially since it is not far away from the current WS-10-thrust level albeit at a smaller size.

I do not want to assume it's impossible but IMO harder to achieve than 160+ for the WS-15.


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## Akasa

S10 said:


> Empty Weight: 14 tons
> Maximum Takeoff Weight: 28 to 30 tons
> Internal Fuel: 7 tons
> Armament Load: 8 tons, including external loads
> Loadout Configuration: Air Superiority (6X medium range AA missiles or 4X long range AA missiles), Ground Strike (12X Small Diameter Bombs, or 4X 500kg laser guided bombs, or 4X anti-radiation missiles)
> Powerplant: 2X WS-13E rated at 90kN max thrust each, later replaced by WS-19 rated at roughly 110kN each
> 
> - Capable of limited supercruise
> - Low radar and IR signature design
> - Advanced sensors and fusion of battlefield information, networking with ships and planes
> - Based on modified J-31 design
> - First flight around late 2019 or early 2020
> - WS-19 will be upgraded later to increase thrust and adding thrust vectoring
> 
> https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2461769-1-1.html
> 
> That's all according to a poster pb, known as one of the insiders.



2019-2020 for a first flight, huh? I realize that it's a very quick time frame, but, as I'm sure @Deino can understand, our patience hates to be tested!

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## Beast

Deino said:


> To admit in his case I fully agree with @Beast, ... even if I can understand your point, 120 kN for an engine in the medium thrust / medium size class is a word, especially since it is not far away from the current WS-10-thrust level albeit at a smaller size.
> 
> I do not want to assume it's impossible but IMO harder to achieve than 160+ for the WS-15.


It is very likely using high 3D printing method and advance metallurgy, the weight of these new plane can further cut down on weight to offset the lesser thrust engine while maintain the same thrust to weight ratio compare to western countries.

Just like VT-4 tank using a 1200/1300hp domestic engine but still has the same weight to hp ratio compare to western M1A2, Leopard 2 and Challenger II using 1500hp.

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## Akasa

New rumored details of the J-XY: (from pb19980515)

1. Its weight requirements are extremely strict; apparently the design team is not allowed to add even a ton of extra weight.
2. It will receive a 100-110 kN turbofan from the start and may be upgraded with an even more powerful engine later on.
3. It will be able to provide guidance information to naval munitions including the new YJ-18
4. Estimated entry-into-service ~2024-2025.

Other notable things mentioned in the thread (same as the one posted above) is that the upgraded J-15, EW J-15, the J-XY, and KJ-600 will all make their maiden flights by the end of 2019 (or early 2020).

PB does mention the following:


> 还有其他海航部队的型号，总量在XXX架


Can somebody translate that portion? It seems to be hinting that other branches of the PLAN (naval land-based aviation?) might operate the J-XY fighter as well.

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## Deino

Given the latest flight tests there's an interesting post at the SDF adding some interesting hints thru the commentary provided by Angadow...



> *Angadow:* if this happened in the last few days, it's probably because a potential client was evaluating it
> *Someone:* navy?
> *Angadow:* PLAN has already finished with their evaluations!



So, who could be this potential client if it is not the PLAN? 
Pakistan, Saudis?

By the way, wasn't there a report that NA decided to make a fly-off between both naval contenders?

Deino


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Given the latest flight tests there's an interesting post at the SDF adding some interesting hints thru the commentary provided by Angadow...
> 
> 
> 
> So, who could be this potential client if it is not the PLAN?
> Pakistan, Saudis?
> 
> By the way, wasn't there a report that NA decided to make a fly-off between both naval contenders?
> 
> Deino



There has never been a "fly-off" in the history of Chinese aviation. All configurations and projects are decided at the concept stage.


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## Deino

Akasa said:


> There has never been a "fly-off" in the history of Chinese aviation. All configurations and projects are decided at the concept stage.




Indeed and therefore the big surprise when these reports popped up a few weeks ago.


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## Akasa

Navalized FC-31. Anyone know the source of this CG?


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## Deino

What's the source of this CG?


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## Figaro

Beast said:


> Sounds logical but WS-19 thrust of 110kn sounds a high goal to set.


Thrust is not the most important indicator of an engine's technology. TWR, SFC (specific fuel consumption), inlet temperatures, air-flow, and number of HPC stages are all more important. Often times, increasing thrust is very difficult ...



Deino said:


> To admit in his case I fully agree with @Beast, ... even if I can understand your point, 120 kN for an engine in the medium thrust / medium size class is a word, especially since it is not far away from the current WS-10-thrust level albeit at a smaller size.
> 
> I do not want to assume it's impossible but IMO harder to achieve than 160+ for the WS-15.


Indeed. 120 is pretty overkill for FC-31 sized aircraft ... if we go by AVIC numbers, the WS-10 thrust range is from 120 kN to 140 kN, so the WS-19 would therefore be a large thrust engine.


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## Deino

Deino said:


> What's the source of this CG?




Just a magazine. ...

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Deino said:


> Just a magazine. ...
> 
> View attachment 461710
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a magazine. ...
> 
> View attachment 461710



J-31 has better look than J20...I hope J31 to have heavy lift wings so when it landing, speed can be slower for better control and less shock impact.

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## rcrmj

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 496297
> View attachment 496298
> View attachment 496299


*PLAN's next ten fighter is based on conventional config, not canard config like J-20 or J-10````*
the current only serving AC based canard plan is the French Rafale, the plane was design for both land and AC based usage at day one, it compensated a great deal in order to achieve that``

China now* has the will, money and tech to develop 2nd type advanced stealth fighter*, in order to achieve design optimization, *they chose conventional config*, and *slightly larger size compared to FC-31*, and it will use the* latest radars, weapons, avionics, optics, stealth coating, design and manufacturing tools* to make sure it can dominate future sea and sky```````the only draw back is the engine, they will use *WS-13E at the begining, T/W ratio 8.5``````and WS-19 (T/W ratio is over 10```) will be ready around the same time as WS-15, maybe a bit earlier````*

WS-13E's *mass production* has already started`````

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## LKJ86

rcrmj said:


> WS-13E's *mass production* has already started`````


What is the WS-13E in mass production used for now?

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## rcrmj

LKJ86 said:


> What is the WS-13E in mass production used for now?


JF-17, new stealth UAVs, new 5th gen stealth fighters etc`````it has started recently, big number will follow in years time```it takes time to assemble a turbofan engine with a new line````

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## LKJ86

rcrmj said:


> JF-17, new stealth UAVs, new 5th gen stealth fighters etc`````it has started recently, big number will follow in years time```it takes time to assemble a turbofan engine with a new line````


JF-17 uses WS-13E? JF-17 Block 3?


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## Deino

rcrmj said:


> *PLAN's next ten fighter is based on conventional config, not canard config like J-20 or J-10````*




Says who?


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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> *PLAN's next ten fighter is based on conventional config, not canard config like J-20 or J-10````*
> the current only serving AC based canard plan is the French Rafale, the plane was design for both land and AC based usage at day one, it compensated a great deal in order to achieve that``
> 
> China now* has the will, money and tech to develop 2nd type advanced stealth fighter*, in order to achieve design optimization, *they chose conventional config*, and *slightly larger size compared to FC-31*, and it will use the* latest radars, weapons, avionics, optics, stealth coating, design and manufacturing tools* to make sure it can dominate future sea and sky```````the only draw back is the engine, they will use *WS-13E at the begining, T/W ratio 8.5``````and WS-19 (T/W ratio is over 10```) will be ready around the same time as WS-15, maybe a bit earlier````*
> 
> WS-13E's *mass production* has already started`````



Look, as much as pb19980515 is an insider, you need to broaden your perspective. Other "big shrimps" such as "slayerhuahua" and "gongke101" are a bit more skeptical about the J-XY being a FC-31 derivative, so the best option is to wait and see.


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## rcrmj

LKJ86 said:


> JF-17 uses WS-13E? JF-17 Block 3?


not the current JF-17, maybe in near future depends on PA's requirment``its not cheap compared to the current engine used on JF-17`````



Deino said:


> Says who?


I said, but it doesnt matter, you will see it very soon, no later than 2019```



Akasa said:


> Look, as much as pb19980515 is an insider, you need to broaden your perspective. Other "big shrimps" such as "slayerhuahua" and "gongke101" are a bit more skeptical about the J-XY being a FC-31 derivative, so the best option is to wait and see.



they are skeptical on FC-31, not the conventional config next gen fighter that is under development````gongke is more related to engine deparment, huahua to the ship yard and PB's job is to collect new weapon's data, primary based on carrier```

in my circle, like 90% votes went to conventional config`````


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## Ultima Thule

rcrmj said:


> I said, but it doesnt matter, you will see it very soon, no later than 2019```


Can you backup for your claim or gives us the prove of your claim, if not your tall claim worth nothing @rcrmj


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## rcrmj

pakistanipower said:


> Can you backup for your claim or gives us the prove of your claim, if not your tall claim worth nothing @rcrmj


its not tall claim, and the only proof is the official blueprint, final project report with the stamp + the government fund transaction```you really want us to provide those without thinking spending the rest life in prison?

forget about canard, its not gonna happen``````


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## Ultima Thule

rcrmj said:


> its not tall claim, and the only proof is the official blueprint, final project report with the stamp + the government fund transaction```you really want us to provide those without thinking spending the rest life in prison?
> 
> forget about canard, its not gonna happen``````


Than show it to us, if not i still consider this as tall false claim without prove @rcrmj


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## rcrmj

why there are still so many people's wishful thinking on J-20 to become AC's based fighter?```its not gonna happen, as much as to believe that FC-31 is the future AC's based stealth fighter```

FC-31 is the demostrator, not the prototype````


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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> they are skeptical on FC-31, not the conventional config next gen fighter that is under development````gongke is more related to engine deparment, huahua to the ship yard and PB's job is to collect new weapon's data, primary based on carrier```
> 
> in my circle, like 90% votes went to conventional config`````



In February 2018, "slayerhuahua" wrote a riddle that was interpreted to mean that the J-20 has been selected to be the basis of the next-generation fighter. In June 2018 "gongke101" claimed that earlier rumors of FC-31 being "selected" was actually a premature assumption based on a PLAN official's visit to SAC (or something along those lines). I don't recall any other insider besides pb19980515 explicitly claiming that the J-XY has adopted a conventional configuration.


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## Deino

rcrmj said:


> I said, but it doesnt matter, you will see it very soon, no later than 2019```
> 
> ...
> 
> in my circle, like 90% votes went to conventional config`````



Thanks, but so the question is: is this conventional design issues by SAC or CAC ... and if by SAC, is it one based on the FC-31?


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## rcrmj

Akasa said:


> In February 2018, *"slayerhuahua" wrote a riddle that was interpreted to mean that the J-20 has been selected to be the basis of the next-generation fighter.*


you'd better find that riddle and show it to me ````` huahua knows something about ships and carriers' production or subs```but fighter jets``well, not his field


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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> you'd better find that riddle and show it to me ````` huahua knows something about ships and carriers' production or subs```but fighter jets``well, not his field



https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2457489-1-1.html


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## rcrmj

Deino said:


> Thanks, but so the question is: is this conventional design issues by SAC or CAC ... and if by SAC, is it one based on the FC-31?


the project was assigned to SAC, and it can not be easily said that is based on which model```at the end of the day China's aviation institutions are all belong to one big unity , there is no barrier for sharing techs and experiences among them`````and they even share dozens of private suppliers```the new coating which will reduce radar signal to 1X% has been developed, and will be used on both new stealth fighter and the current J-20 when the new batch is started```

there are talks among the top that to bring in reforms that to break the unity into independ companies, so healthy competition will be encouraged. However, for the time being, working to gether is the better option until we have achieved technological edge over or on pair to the U.S in aviation field in general.

nonetheless, the development of private sectors are thriving, some of the core parts of J-20 were developed and made by private companies!

they have blew thousands of hours wind in tunel, datas have been collected and calculated, the ship has sailed cannot be turned.

a medium sized conventional config stealth fighter is ideal for PLAN`````a shrinked J-20 just cant do the job, cant!



Akasa said:


> https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2457489-1-1.html


lol, he is making fun of those fans wishful thinking on J-20, but in reality it is the conventional config`````I have read all three books of the Three Body Si-fi```Zhang BeiHai is the top officer in the book has the power to make final decision```even the "laddy" does not want to live in room 31 wants to live in room 20 with him````

this riddle implies nothing about selecting J-20````you better learn Chinese to understand that 

again, he mentioned in many occasions that aviation is not his field`````

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> lol, he is making fun of those fans wishful thinking on J-20, but in reality it is the conventional config`````I have read all three books of the Three Body Si-fi```Zhang BeiHai is the top officer in the book has the power to make final decision```even the "laddy" does not want to live in room 31 wants to live in room 20 with him````
> 
> this riddle implies nothing about selecting J-20````you better learn Chinese to understand that
> 
> again, he mentioned in many occasions that aviation is not his field`````



What about the following text? Note the bolded portion.


> 呵呵，只是为了让你安心养胎
> 
> 没关系啦，新时代的医学制度已经证明那样更有利于胎儿的发展
> 
> *好吧，听你的*，等一下，三体星人的探测器还有多久到达


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## rcrmj

Akasa said:


> What about the following text? Note the bolded portion.


the bold part
the girl said: Ok, I will listen to you (to live in room 31), and when will the three body's prober arrive?``````


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## 帅的一匹

J 31 is the best option


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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> the bold part
> the girl said: Ok, I will listen to you (to live in room 31), and when will the three body's prober arrive?``````



Are you sure? Most of the forumers are interpreting it as being said by the guy.


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## rcrmj

Akasa said:


> Are you sure? *Most of the forumers *are interpreting it as being said by the guy.


only if you can read Chinese, and none of the following posts by fans were saying anything that they "chose" 20`````unless their language skill is at primary level```

I have no idea where did you even get this bold part from? can you read Chinese?


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## samsara

rcrmj said:


> only if you can read Chinese, and none of the following posts by fans were saying anything that they "chose" 20`````unless their language skill is at primary level```
> 
> I have no idea where did you even get this bold part from? can you read Chinese?


Nope, but he's just seeking some confirmation from you guys, as usual putting up some bait at play! SinoSoldier or Akasa, your pick

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## Deino

I stumbled across this post at the SDF including a translation from "mys_721tx":







------------------------------------
Q: Is 2.0 cancelled?
A: No, it's still there. I saw it.

Q: Is 2.0 still [primer] green?
A: No, it has been painted.

Q: Does 2.0 have the same paint job as 31001?
A: No, totally different.

Q: What does 2.0 looks like? Are there any photo?
A: There are photos, just not in my procession. Don't ask me who has them, I will keep it as a secret. I will also keep the painting itself as a secret for the time being. I want to play a game to see how shocked everyone is when we see the photos of the first flight.

Q: Does 2.0 have the August 1st insignia?
A: Let me phrase it this way, it is not nice to commandeer private projects.

Q: Does 2.0 get new engines?
A: For some reason it's too dark and I wasn't able to see.

Q: Has the painted 2.0 not taken the first flight?
A: No, we should wait and see. There is no update but it should be on ground testing.

[J-]16's production capability is surprisingly [good].

There are good news by the end of the month.

There is a 2019 model aircraft near its first flight.
------------------------------------

and another one from "Lama":

------------------------------------
I try to make a translation.
1.Does the 2.0 still exist? 
yes,I have already seen it.
2.Is the 2.0 still in green color?
No, the 2.0 has been painted.
3.Dose the 2.0's coat looks like 31001?
Totally different.
4.What is it like? any photos?
I don't have photos.Don't ask me who have photos. It should be kept secret. I want to play a game that all of you say wow after watching it. Pls keep an eye on other bloggers and wait for them to post the first photo of the 2.0.
5.Does it have the logo of PLA？
emmm…Let me explain it in this way: picking peaches is not a proper behavior.(picking peaches mostly means sit idle and enjoy the fruits)
6.Does the 2.0 have new engines?
Because of some reasons I can't see what the engines are like.It's too dark.
7.Doesn't the 2.0 have its first flight?
No. Let's wait. It's being test these days.

The capacity of J16 is amazing.
Something good will happen at the end of this month. But it is too sensitive. Maybe I'll talk about it next year.
New type aircraft of 2019 will have its first flight.(he say 19款,it can mean 19 types or type of 2019.I belive he means the latter.
------------------------------------


IMO interesting, but again:

- who is the original poster? 
- how reliable is he (or she)?
- it's overall a bit confusing: we all know 02 exists since some time and even that it flew already .. so why the 7. question?


Here's the original tweet:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1135480984516698112


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## Deino

Well; that would be a surprise...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1148943100103946240

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1153968755875221509

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 574683
> View attachment 574684




Here's the original one! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163105061393903616

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Here's the original one!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163105061393903616


Isnt this just an artist illustration?


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## Deino

Figaro said:


> Isnt this just an artist illustration?



Yes for sure ... but I won't complain if the real one would look exactly like this.

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## beijingwalker

August 28, 2019 Topic: Security 
*See This Picture? China May Soon Have Stealth Fighters for Its Aircraft Carriers*
And it could be the J-20. 
by Michael Peck






The race to build China’s carrier-based stealth fighter may be over.


The competition had been between the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation’s J-20 and the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation’s FC-31 over which aircraft would fly from China’s next generation of aircraft carriers.

And the winner is...the J-20, according to the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post.

A Chinese military source told the Post that the Central Military Commission favored the J-20. “The Chengdu Aerospace Corporation will announce some new products, which will include a new version of their J-20,” the source said. “You can guess what type it will be.”

If true, this would end a long debate over whether the J-20 or FC-31 – both of which are under development -- is the more worthy candidate. The J-20 is a bigger, heavier aircraft, while the FC-31 is smaller and lighter. “Those who favored the J-20 said it was more advanced and reliable than the FC-31,” while the FC-31 is considered more maneuverable, the Post said.






Details of the J-20 “Powerful Dragon” are sparse, but it is a twin-engined, 35-ton fighter that is 67 feet long and a wingspan of 42 feet, as well as Mach 2 speed and an estimated range of 1,200 to 2,000 miles. The 28-ton FC-31 is 55 feet long and a wingspan of 38 feet, as well as Mach 1.8 speed and a combat range of 745 miles, according to its manufacturer. The Shenyang Aircraft Corporation already makes China’s current carrier-based jet, the J-15, an unlicensed copy of an old Soviet design and an aircraft that has been plagued by numerous crashes.

The J-20 is a distinctive-looking aircraft with its canards – little winglets – just behind the cockpit, and is often compared to an F-22. The FC-31 resembles an F-35.

The F-22/F-35 comparison actually applies in several ways. While the manufacturers of the J-20 and FC-31 are competitors, they both are part of state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China, and vie for contracts like U.S. defense firms do. The J-20 and FC-31 contest is similar to the U.S. military’s heavy/light fighter debates, such as the F-15 versus F-16 or F-22 versus F-35. The U.S. eventually ended up with 187 F-22s – considered the world’s premier air superiority fighter, but very expensive at more than $400 million apiece. Instead the bulk of the U.S. fighter force will be more than 2,000 F-35s, whose price has recently dropped to $80 million each.

The F-35 is still very much a work in progress, with numerous defects reported by government auditors. The J-20, conceived as a land-based stealth fighter, will also need some work before it can be based on China’s next generation of aircraft carriers, which will use new electromagnetic catapults capable of launching heavier aircraft than conventional catapults can. “The key problem of the J-20 is not weight, but length,” the military source told the Post. “If it wants to be a carrier-based fighter jet, it needs to be made shorter.”


There is also the perpetual Chinese problem with jet engines. “At present both the J-20 and F-31 still rely on Russian engines,” the Post noted. “The WS-15 engine that has been purpose built for the J-20 has undergone hundreds of hours of testing but has yet to meet reliability targets, while the F-31 prototype does not have a purpose-built engine,” said the Post.

If the Chinese navy did pick the J-20, it is noteworthy that it opted for the heavier and presumably more expensive aircraft, but with longer range and payload than its competitor.


One Chinese commentator did suggest to the Post that the Chinese navy could develop both the J-20 and FC-31 as a complementary duo. “But another military source close to the PLA Navy said it would be almost impossible to develop both aircraft over the next few years given the risk of an economic downturn as the trade war with the US continues to escalate,” the Post said.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...-stealth-fighters-its-aircraft-carriers-76581

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## Deino

beijingwalker said:


> August 28, 2019 Topic: Security
> *See This Picture? China May Soon Have Stealth Fighters for Its Aircraft Carriers*
> And it could be the J-20.
> by Michael Peck
> ...
> And the winner is...the J-20, according to the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post.
> ...
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...-stealth-fighters-its-aircraft-carriers-76581




Oh my god !! 
Nationalinterest is quoting a report from Minnie Chan - and we all know how reliable and credible she is  - .... so what does this tell us??


*Also, please not again a new thread for a single report.*

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## obj 705A

I highly doubt that the PLA would just drop the J-31 after all the money & time spent on it , not only the PLAN needs it but also the PLAAF needs a light 5th gen fighter , the J-31 will most likely be cheaper than the J-20 so it will be perfect to complement the number of 5th gen fighters in the PLAAF , also the price of America's F-35 was said to have dropped to 80$ million! If true then that is quite impressive , this would allow the US to reach their goal of having 2000 5th gen fighters very easly , if there are any flaws with the J-31 then the PLA could always just spend few billions of dollarsto further develop it & correct any flaws.

In the future if the PLA where to have a 5th gen air force equal to at the very least 60% that of the US then they will need a light 5th gen fighter, though personally I believe that China aims to have absolute parity ( both quality wise & quantity wise) with the USAF after may be 30-35 years from now , by that time (ie: 2050-2055) the Chinese economy will most likely be much bigger than that of the US making quite easy for the PLAAF to afford an airforce like that.

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## Beast

obj 705A said:


> I highly doubt that the PLA would just drop the J-31 after all the money & time spent on it , not only the PLAN needs it but also the PLAAF needs a light 5th gen fighter , the J-31 will most likely be cheaper than the J-20 so it will be perfect to complement the number of 5th gen fighters in the PLAAF , also the price of America's F-35 was said to have dropped to 80$ million! If true then that is quite impressive , this would allow the US to reach their goal of having 2000 5th gen fighters very easly , if there are any flaws with the J-31 then the PLA could always just spend few billions of dollarsto further develop it & correct any flaws.
> 
> In the future if the PLA where to have a 5th gen air force equal to at the very least 60% that of the US then they will need a light 5th gen fighter, though personally I believe that China aims to have absolute parity ( both quality wise & quantity wise) with the USAF after may be 30-35 years from now , by that time (ie: 2050-2055) the Chinese economy will most likely be much bigger than that of the US making quite easy for the PLAAF to afford an airforce like that.


PLA never spend a single cent on J-31. The one who fork out all the money on the project itself is Shenyang aviation corporation.


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## Ali_Baba

Its a good thing that PAF didnot select or join the F-35 project. It is essentially a dead project with no future in China at all. It would be best to see if TF-X can meet the needs of the PAF. If TFX can overcome its technical issues, then it has both potential and also a future as Turkey will purchase the aircraft.


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## Silicon0000

Ali_Baba said:


> Its a good thing that PAF didnot select or join the F-35 project. It is essentially a dead project with no future in China at all. It would be best to see if TF-X can meet the needs of the PAF. If TFX can overcome its technical issues, then it has both potential and also a future as Turkey will purchase the aircraft.



J31 instead of F35

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## Deino

Beast said:


> PLA never spend a single cent on J-31. The one who fork out all the money on the project itself is Shenyang aviation corporation.




But is this confirmed? I thought there were at least a few reports even from very respected "big shrimps" who noted, that the PLA entered the program with founds.

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> But is this confirmed? I thought there were at least a few reports even from very respected "big shrimps" who noted, that the PLA entered the program with founds.


simple, no PLA marking in J-31 body means project still not fund by PLAF or PLAN.
and J-31 fans waiting so long J31 have PLA marking.


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## Ultima Thule

Ali_Baba said:


> Its a good thing that PAF didnot select or join the F-35 project. It is essentially a dead project with no future in China at all. It would be best to see if TF-X can meet the needs of the PAF. If TFX can overcome its technical issues, then it has both potential and also a future as Turkey will purchase the aircraft.


TFX long way to go it will reach production status after 2030 if not delayed and there are rumors that Turkey is showing interests in Su-57 and skip the TF-X project all along @Ali_Baba


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## waja2000

pakistanipower said:


> TFX long way to go it will reach production status after 2030 if not delayed and there are rumors that Turkey is showing interests in Su-57 and skip the TF-X project all along @Ali_Baba




Su-57 seem not conflict with TFX project which Su-57 is heavy fighter, TFX only light/Medium fighter. unless Turkey just need 1 type 5 Gen fighter.

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## Deino

*Can we please leave out Turkey, the TFX and any potential Su-57E since they are irrelevant to the future carrierborne fighter.*

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## dBSPL

waja2000 said:


> Su-57 seem not conflict with TFX project which Su-57 is heavy fighter, TFX only light/Medium fighter. unless Turkey just need 1 type 5 Gen fighter.


I'm sorry, but you're trying to spread false information. I don't want to dissipate topic because moderator Deino says he won't let us. If you come to the relevant topics, you can learn more about TFX' doctrine. Thanks.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1205164104245272576

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## Deino

It seems as if AVIC itself lifted the veil of secrecy about the future carrier-borne fighter giving a strong hint that a much redesigned variant has been selected by PLAN (already rumored as J-35) to be powered by the new WS-19.
(Image via AVIC Weibo account)

https://www.weibo.com/3061210763/Ilw13bjX4?type=comment#_rnd1576759928989

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## Kabotar

Deino said:


> It seems as if AVIC itself lifted the veil of secrecy about the future carrier-borne fighter giving a strong hint that a much redesigned variant has been selected by PLAN (already rumored as J-35) to be powered by the new WS-19.
> (Image via AVIC Weibo account)
> 
> https://www.weibo.com/3061210763/Ilw13bjX4?type=comment#_rnd1576759928989
> 
> View attachment 594590



Excited for WS-19.


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## Ultima Thule

Kabotar said:


> Excited for WS-19.


It will be in same class as F-414/EJ-200


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## serenity

seven0seven said:


> It will be in same class as F-414/EJ-200



They aim to preserve performance at least at RD-33 or WS-13 power with more reliability. To be honest RD-33 is pretty okay and Chengdu was confident using on single engine fighter like JF-17 which they was not for WS-10 in 1990s and early 2000. Until now after ten years of service they feel okay about it. From beginning they were okay with RD-33 and AL-31. Chinese engine in early 2000 was unproven.

WS-19 should aim to improve reliability and service life. Hopefully better thermal designs and fuel efficiency. J-35 is confirmed by AVIC so they must be using WS-19. This means JF-17 in future may switch over if size is not trouble. Or if WS-19 infact can equip on single engine fighter. Maybe Chengdu will feel they need to wait some years of WS-19 positive service first.


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## Ultima Thule

serenity said:


> They aim to preserve performance at least at RD-33 or WS-13 power with more reliability. To be honest RD-33 is pretty okay and Chengdu was confident using on single engine fighter like JF-17 which they was not for WS-10 in 1990s and early 2000. Until now after ten years of service they feel okay about it. From beginning they were okay with RD-33 and AL-31. Chinese engine in early 2000 was unproven.
> 
> WS-19 should aim to improve reliability and service life. Hopefully better thermal designs and fuel efficiency. J-35 is confirmed by AVIC so they must be using WS-19. This means JF-17 in future may switch over if size is not trouble. Or if WS-19 infact can equip on single engine fighter. Maybe Chengdu will feel they need to wait some years of WS-19 positive service first.


Bro didn't Chinese copy RD-93 as a WS-13 and we know that First protype of FC-31 have RD-93, which consider weak for FC-31 (Low thrust to weight ratio) because FC-31 using relaying to much afterburner to be remain supersonic


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## Beast

serenity said:


> They aim to preserve performance at least at RD-33 or WS-13 power with more reliability. To be honest RD-33 is pretty okay and Chengdu was confident using on single engine fighter like JF-17 which they was not for WS-10 in 1990s and early 2000. Until now after ten years of service they feel okay about it. From beginning they were okay with RD-33 and AL-31. Chinese engine in early 2000 was unproven.
> 
> WS-19 should aim to improve reliability and service life. Hopefully better thermal designs and fuel efficiency. J-35 is confirmed by AVIC so they must be using WS-19. This means JF-17 in future may switch over if size is not trouble. Or if WS-19 infact can equip on single engine fighter. Maybe Chengdu will feel they need to wait some years of WS-19 positive service first.


WS-19 is meant to surpassed RD-93. It's is consider a next gen engine.


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## smooth manifold

Deino said:


> It seems as if AVIC itself lifted the veil of secrecy about the future carrier-borne fighter giving a strong hint that a much redesigned variant has been selected by PLAN (already rumored as J-35) to be powered by the new WS-19.
> (Image via AVIC Weibo account)
> 
> https://www.weibo.com/3061210763/Ilw13bjX4?type=comment#_rnd1576759928989
> 
> View attachment 594590



So FC-31 is dead?


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## serenity

seven0seven said:


> Bro didn't Chinese copy RD-93 as a WS-13 and we know that First protype of FC-31 have RD-93, which consider weak for FC-31 (Low thrust to weight ratio) because FC-31 using relaying to much afterburner to be remain supersonic



Yes WS-13 is copy of RD-33. I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps language problem.

We don't know J-35 real weight. No one said FC-31 has low thrust to weight because no one knows FC-31's weight and it's a prototype so really it's quite light. Real fighter will be much heavier. From looking at size comparison, it seems RD-33 or RD-93 is not enough for J-35. I think J-35 will use WS-19 and the whole waiting for FC-31 to develop from 2015 was because there was no information on engine performance and final specifications. Now the engineers know what they have to do so progress goes back on.



Beast said:


> WS-19 is meant to surpassed RD-93. It's is consider a next gen engine.



Yes WS-13 is the same as RD-33 series but WS-19 is supposed to be the next generation to take this size of engine to performance of F-414 and EJ200 level. This is something I mean by size, weight, thermal properties, fuel consumption, normal power and afterburner power, reliability, maintenance cycles and service life. RD-33 and WS-13 is okay compared to M88 and M53 but still poorer reliability and service life.


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## Ultima Thule

serenity said:


> Yes WS-13 is copy of RD-33. I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps language problem.
> 
> We don't know J-35 real weight. No one said FC-31 has low thrust to weight because no one knows FC-31's weight and it's a prototype so really it's quite light. Real fighter will be much heavier. From looking at size comparison, it seems RD-33 or RD-93 is not enough for J-35. I think J-35 will use WS-19 and the whole waiting for FC-31 to develop from 2015 was because there was no information on engine performance and final specifications. Now the engineers know what they have to do so progress goes back on.


Bro as far as i remember in 2016 Zuhai airshow there was Flight demonstration of FC-31, in that Demonstration FC-31 using lots of afterburner for maneuverability (hence low thrust to weight ratio), and you have no engine that comparable to RD-93 class and FC-31 prototypes using RD-93 engine (most probably), and FC-31 always categorize as a medium weight jet not as a light weight jet


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## serenity

seven0seven said:


> Bro as far as i remember in 2016 Zuhai airshow there was Flight demonstration of FC-31, in that Demonstration FC-31 using lots of afterburner for maneuverability (hence low thrust to weight ratio), and you have no engine that comparable to RD-93 class and FC-31 prototypes using RD-93 engine (most probably), and FC-31 always categorize as a medium weight jet not as a light weight jet



I don't understand what the point is? Is it to say J-35 has no engine? I already said it must be using WS-19 not WS-13 or RD-33. Remember WS-19 was not available in 2015. I don't think RD-33 is a bad engine or unreliable. But it's not good enough for 5th generation fighter. Even J-20 which come out about 10 years earlier than J-35 will come out is getting new WS-15 in few years and switched several times to upgraded AL-31 and then WS-10.

Afterburner for performance is Eurofighter and F-35 too. I think because all fighter in performance is lightened and fuel is calculated, seeing afterburner doesn't tell much. Of course FC-31 prototype is lighter than a fully developed fighter so it should have lower equal thrust to weight than the others but RD-33 on the prototype really we cannot tell much from this.



smooth manifold said:


> So FC-31 is dead?



J-35 for navy is FC-31 developed for navy.


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## Ultima Thule

serenity said:


> I don't understand what the point is? Is it to say J-35 has no engine? I already said it must be using WS-19 not WS-13 or RD-33. Remember WS-19 was not available in 2015.
> 
> Afterburner for performance is Eurofighter and F-35 too. I think because all fighter in performance is lightened and fuel is calculated, seeing afterburner doesn't tell much. Of course FC-31 prototype is lighter than a fully developed fighter so it should have lower equal thrust to weight than the others but RD-33 on the prototype really we cannot tell much from this.


bro bro F-35 using high by pass ratio engine (Like Civil airliner engine with afterburner) and as EJ-200 is low by pass engine has enough thrust to weight ratio that EF-2000 can agile/maneuverable without afterburner
all and all Current FC-31 weight doesn't match the thrust of RD-93/WS-13, so hence its has low thrust to weight ratio and that's why you developing WS-19 because you're not satisfied with performance of RD-93/WS-13 on FC-31


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## Kabotar

Is there a timeline for first flight & induction?


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## serenity

seven0seven said:


> bro bro F-35 using high by pass ratio engine (Like Civil airliner engine with afterburner) and as EJ-200 is low by pass engine has enough thrust to weight ratio that EF-2000 can agile/maneuverable without afterburner
> all and all Current FC-31 weight doesn't match the thrust of RD-93/WS-13, so hence its has low thrust to weight ratio and that's why you developing WS-19 because you're not satisfied with performance of RD-93/WS-13 on FC-31



Okay let's completely start over. What about the things I said you disagree with? I said everything you said here. I don't get it. It's like I said ABC and then you say bro bro ABC. Yeah I know ABC. What are you trying to say? Maybe highlight something I said and then tell me what is wrong or what you disagree with.


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## Ultima Thule

serenity said:


> Okay let's completely start over. What about the things I said you disagree with? I said everything you said here. I don't get it. It's like I said ABC and then you say bro bro ABC. Yeah I know ABC. What are you trying to say? Maybe highlight something I said and then tell me what is wrong or what you disagree with.


I am just trying to say with current engine WS-13/RD-93 FC-31 has low thrust to weight ratio, that's all i have to say


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## Deino

*With now being pretty much confirmed I would suggest to continue at least the naval related FC-31 discussion here in this thread!*


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## Ultima Thule

Kabotar said:


> Is there a timeline for first flight & induction?





Kabotar said:


> Is there a timeline for first flight & induction?


are you talking about FC-31 or J-35 if you talking about FC-31 its took first Flight in 2014 and FC-31 still a private (company) project, still no investment by PLAAF/PLAN so no 100% guarantee that PLAAF/PLAN will induct this jet in near future


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## serenity

seven0seven said:


> I am just trying to say with current engine WS-13/RD-93 FC-31 has low thrust to weight ratio, that's all i have to say



Yes I agree with you and I also agree with you that WS-19 must be used for J-35. J-35 project proves medium level engine like WS-19 is probably finished in important aspects. Otherwise relying on WS-13 or RD-33 is not powerful or reliable enough and probably many other issues like poor thermal properties compared to the best medium power engines like EJ200 and F414. So if PLAN decide to go with J-35 we know therefore they must have confident plans for engine. Definitely not RD-33 or WS-13 which are not for navy anyway. I think Mig-29K must use some special navy version against corrosion. This type of RD-33 China has not bought.


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## Ultima Thule

serenity said:


> Yes I agree with you and I also agree with you that WS-19 must be used for J-35. J-35 project proves medium level engine like WS-19 is probably finished in important aspects. Otherwise relying on WS-13 or RD-33 is not powerful or reliable enough and probably many other issues like poor thermal properties compared to the best medium power engines like EJ200 and F414. So if PLAN decide to go with J-35 we know therefore they must have confident plans for engine. Definitely not RD-33 or WS-13 which are not for navy anyway. I think Mig-29K must use some special navy version against corrosion. This type of RD-33 China has not bought.


And you would also be agree with me on that for Under power WS-13 or RD-93 on FC-31, China started to develop new Engine WS-19

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## waja2000

Pass few days also news said Ukriane Motor Sich in process R&D on AI-9500f engine design for J-31 with 9.5ton of power. one of reason China china buy Motor Sich.

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## Deino

waja2000 said:


> Pass few days also news said Ukriane Motor Sich in process R&D on AI-9500f engine design for J-31 with 9.5ton of power. one of reason China china buy Motor Sich.



IMO highly unlikely ... Why developing a very different engine when there si already the WS-19 on the drawing board or even bench test? Even more - at least AFAIK - is Motor Sich NOT famous for developing high-end-high-thrust powerplants, which an engine for the J-35 must be and also in mind of the not yet finished deal.

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> IMO highly unlikely ... Why developing a very different engine when there si already the WS-19 on the drawing board or even bench test? Even more - at least AFAIK - is Motor Sich NOT famous for developing high-end-high-thrust powerplants, which an engine for the J-35 must be and also in mind of the not yet finished deal.



Well i think Motor Sich also want to continue progress with develop new engine, as AI-9500F engine can use to many plane like example JF-17 (replace RD93). at the end still to up customer choose what engine there like/trust.
As for AI-9500F better or worst than WS-19 no one know, at the end reliability , lifespan, service interval will be factor to consider.
If Motor Sich finially sell to china, i think Motor Sich will have more future, since many engine can be used in china plane or helicopter. AI-222-25/F already use in L15.

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## serenity

I can't find much information on AL-9500. Seems this engine is from smaller engine with only 25KN produced. It is at least one power level down from WS-31 and RD-33 types. WS-19 will produce much more power. Can't even compare with M88.

J-35 will need two AL-31 or WS-10 level thrust otherwise it is too fat and heavy. WS-19 will be sized similar to RD-33 but will produce much more power and maybe up to early AL-31 level otherwise J-35 is hopeless product.

If J-35 may even be larger than FC-31 for navy. Definitely is heavier. Everything depends on size of final J-35. If it is heavy fighter and can fit WS-10 sized engine, it may really just get WS-10 pair. If it is like FC-31 sized, it will get two WS-19. The AL-9500 looks like engine for trainer sized fighter and performance level. Or for drone.

Motor Sich hold many other engine technology like commercial plane or transport and high bypass.

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## waja2000

serenity said:


> I can't find much information on AL-9500. Seems this engine is from smaller engine with only 25KN produced. It is at least one power level down from WS-31 and RD-33 types. WS-19 will produce much more power. Can't even compare with M88.
> .



http://ivchenko-progress.com/?page_id=22&lang=en

Anyway AL-9500F only in design state, seems Motor Sich no have budget continue the program. see how Motor Sich seek future get china fund or not.

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## Deino

I do not want to divert from this in principle interesting discussion ... but we are very much now withing the engine thread. 

Otherwise, any news, when we finally see the painted FC-31V2??


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## Deino

What do you think .... J-35 coming soo or am I again to impatient?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240954265364914177
via http://ep.cannews.com.cn/publish/zghkb7/html/1996//node_078139.html



> The mission of military aircraft is urgent, the important research and development mission of AVIC Shenyang this year. AVIC Shenyang University attaches great importance to the establishment of plans, on-site trial guarantees, and comprehensive guarantees for trial operations. (China Aviation News)



I admit only via GoogleTranslator


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## Deino

Interesting post at the SDF by "SinoSoldier":



> This was posted a week and a half ago by "dzytc", which you might recall is the CJDBY user who initially claimed that he saw the J-35 prototype. It's a very rough illustration of what is supposedly the prototype that he saw.
> 
> Of course, take this with a grain of salt.
> Note a couple of things: (1) the yellow primer on the tail portion and (2) the PLA emblem on the vertical tails.



I think the illustration indicate that he doesn't want to be invited for a tea.

via https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2621019-1-1.html

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Interesting post at the SDF by "SinoSoldier":
> 
> 
> 
> I think the illustration indicate that he doesn't want to be invited for a tea.
> 
> via https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2621019-1-1.html
> 
> View attachment 630100


I really wish he had better drawing skills ... I can hardly make out anything from this illustration

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Interesting post at the SDF by "SinoSoldier":
> 
> 
> 
> I think the illustration indicate that he doesn't want to be invited for a tea.
> 
> via https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2621019-1-1.html
> 
> View attachment 630100


It's way much better to drink tea at home solitarily than get invited 

Someone there said this weird, a kind of 'impressionist soul' painting  is the strangest one ever seen in that forum in the last 10 years… nonetheless, all the oddity might signal that the new aircraft is coming out, but just wouldn't say it out clearer for obvious reason.

Well, let's just wait for some more time… but get a feeling it ain't remote.

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## enroger

Deino said:


> Interesting post at the SDF by "SinoSoldier":
> 
> 
> 
> I think the illustration indicate that he doesn't want to be invited for a tea.
> 
> via https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2621019-1-1.html
> 
> View attachment 630100



What a joke! When later J-35 is finally revealed this guy will come out and say "Look at my painting, 100% accurate prediction!"
"Look at those blobs here, I clearly meant them to be WS-19!"
"See that squidgy line right there? Thats the arresting hook!"
....

IMO this joker should STFU, wasting people's time with this shit....

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## Deino

enroger said:


> What a joke! When later J-35 is finally revealed this guy will come out and say "Look at my painting, 100% accurate prediction!"
> "Look at those blobs here, I clearly meant them to be WS-19!"
> "See that squidgy line right there? Thats the arresting hook!"
> ....
> 
> IMO this joker should STFU, wasting people's time with this shit....




Pardon, but why so offensive!??

This artwork is surely never ever meant to deduct any certain details nor to be authentic, but it is a hidden message - shrouded behind a childish artwork to avoid being invited for tea by the authorities - but anyway to tell a message that there is something out there.

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## enroger

Deino said:


> Pardon, but why so offensive!??
> 
> This artwork is surely never ever meant to deduct any certain details nor to be authentic, but it is a hidden message - shrouded behind a childish artwork to avoid being invited for tea by the authorities - but anyway to tell a message that there is something out there.



I'm offensive because it wasted my time. If it is truly classified then he should remain silence, am I supposed to believe he actually saw the real thing with this Picasso masterpiece? This painting brought nothing new to the table.


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## Deino

enroger said:


> I'm offensive because it wasted my time. If it is truly classified then he should remain silence, am I supposed to believe he actually saw the real thing with this Picasso masterpiece? This painting brought nothing new to the table.



There is a great saying: if you don't like it, why bother? All it makes you more angry since you additionally wasted even more time ... but please keep in mind that some might rate this interesting and as such it was worth.

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## enroger

Deino said:


> There is a great saying: if you don't like it, why bother? All it makes you more angry since you additionally wasted even more time ... but please keep in mind that some might rate this interesting and as such it was worth.



You're right of course. It's just that I hate those "跳大神“ type, can't resist to vent....

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## Deino

Not sure reliable this is:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270899952265252865


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## PeacefulWar

Deino said:


> Not sure reliable this is:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270899952265252865


To me more and more likely J-35 will be based on FC31 via SAC now.
We haven't heart anything from CAC so far.

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## Armchair

I think the drawing illustrates a thrust vectoring engine and a new rear section different from the J-31. And that it is a PLA (AF) (AN) project not an independent project like J-31.


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## Deino

Armchair said:


> I think the drawing illustrates a thrust vectoring engine and a new rear section different from the J-31. And that it is a PLA (AF) (AN) project not an independent project like J-31.




Pardon, but where do you see "a thrust vectoring engine and a new rear section different from the J-31"??


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## Armchair

Deino said:


> Pardon, but where do you see "a thrust vectoring engine and a new rear section different from the J-31"??


From the picture


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## Ultima Thule

Armchair said:


> From the picture


Please post this picture if you have, currently we don't have any picture of J-35 on the net so far sir

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## Deino

Armchair said:


> From the picture




Which picture are you referring to?

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## Armchair

Deino said:


> Interesting post at the SDF by "SinoSoldier":
> 
> 
> 
> I think the illustration indicate that he doesn't want to be invited for a tea.
> 
> via https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2621019-1-1.html
> 
> View attachment 630100



This one


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## lcloo

Armchair said:


> This one


Can't see any vertical thrust engine. May be you are referring to the opened canopy?

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## Armchair

lcloo said:


> Can't see any vertical thrust engine. May be you are referring to the opened canopy?
> View attachment 641799



Hi, I said thrust vectoring. See the black thrust vector nozzles at the back...


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## lcloo

Armchair said:


> Hi, I said thrust vectoring. See the black thrust vector nozzles at the back...


OK, but those are just un-decipherable as anything but just engines. There is no indication that they are thrust vectoring. The sketch is not meant to be detailed. Just wait for photo to appear.


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## Armchair

lcloo said:


> OK, but those are just un-decipherable as anything but just engines. There is no indication that they are thrust vectoring. The sketch is not meant to be detailed. Just wait for photo to appear.



All models have jet engines (turbo fan engines actually). Then why the black part in one and no black in the other? 

Also, for STOL capability thrust vectoring really helps.


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## Deino

Armchair said:


> Hi, I said thrust vectoring. See the black thrust vector nozzles at the back...



You are kidding? ... as noted by @lcloo there is nothing on that sketch that can be taken as a hint for a certain detail, only the sketch speaks for itself.



Armchair said:


> All models have jet engines (turbo fan engines actually). Then why the black part in one and no black in the other?
> 
> Also, for STOL capability thrust vectoring really helps.



Yes, but IMO this guy just wanted to make some fun and made this rough sketch in order to show there is something but not to reveal any details that can cause him troubles.

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## Ultima Thule

Armchair said:


> Hi, I said thrust vectoring. See the black thrust vector nozzles at the back...


Just some fanboys sketches you thinks j35 will have TVC engine and modified rear fuselage

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## Figaro

IAU said:


> Just some fanboys sketches you thinks j35 will have TVC engine and modified rear fuselage


Thrust vectoring is already confirmed for the WS-15 on the new J-20s ... why is this so hard to imagine for the fifth generation Chinese carrier fighter?

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## Deino

Figaro said:


> Thrust vectoring is already confirmed for the WS-15 on the new J-20s ... why is this so hard to imagine for the fifth generation Chinese carrier fighter?




But it is one side to assume the J-35 will use TVC from a general technical possibility or to draw a conclusion from a more than crude sketch.

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## lcloo

This article surfaced on CJDBY today. A long article, in short it said "to ensure a new generation fighter jet's maiden flight in 2021 according to schedule". and development work by 601 institute.

Suggestion by some posters on CJDBY is that this could be J35 naval fighter jet for PLAN's aircraft carrier. 

【奋战“双过半”】 航空工业综合所某新型战机技术基础专项全力以赴保节点
中国航空研究院 今天
综合所某新型战机技术基础专项是针对国家重点型号工程开展的综合性、多专业的正向设计研制任务，该专项综合策划基于MBSE的标准化与“六性”工作，以推动型号标准化和通用质量特性技术应用能力提升。自新冠疫情以来，专项团队在打好疫情攻坚战的同时，科学开展复工复产，*以确保新一代战斗机2021年首飞如期实现。*
“暂停键”变“快进键”
突如而来的疫情让整个世界似乎按了暂停键，也打破了专项团队的工作计划。按照原计划，专项团队的两个小组——MBSE工作组和测试性工作组都应该在春节后就前往*601所开展工作*，疫情的到来让原本的出差计划一拖再拖，最终在三月下旬才顺利抵达客户单位。
要“追”才能如期交付。为了追回被延误的时间，团队不惜付出更多的时间和人力成本，派出了比原定多两倍的人员出差，周期也由一周延长超过了一个月。赵中阁是MBSE工作组的一员，作为团队的核心成员，他每天工作12个小时，出差整整一个月，期间就休息了一天。此次任务需要前往沈阳*601所*和成都29所两个单位出差，因辗转多地，期间不得不做了两次核酸检测，当返回北京后，又进行了必要的居家隔离才得以返岗工作。团队另一成员彭超，春节假期一直滞留在湖北至四月初才返京，刚刚过完十四天隔离期，因工作需要便立刻前往沈阳，在沈阳疫情较严重时也坚守在*601所*，连着几个月没能见到新婚妻子。测试性工作组的黄翠红，以“997”模式驻扎沈阳连轴转了两个月，耐心带领“徒弟”刘杨，在短时间高强度工作下完成了七个分系统的建模与分析工作，受到客户的认可和好评。“黄姐给我最大的印象就是耐心，无论是对待建模工作还是我提出的问题，她总是细心讲解，这次黄姐带我一起完成的仿真模型，总师单位将其作为样板提供给其他单位学习，我感觉太自豪了。她就是我的师傅，我的榜样。”刘杨如是说。
在两个工作组并联加速工作下，被疫情耽搁的工期被抢了回来，原本被推迟了近三个月的工作，现在基本如期完成。按照这个状态完全能够按期交付，确保型号首飞节点不耽误。
速度要有，质量也要有
虽说是“赶”工期，但质量一点没打折扣。在疫情期间，MBSE工作团队在两个月之内明确了技术路线，开发了能够读取模型的插件，建立了平台系统及模型；MBSE新技术打通了数字化环境下与正向设计的融合，形成型号技术能力储备和支持，为未来型号应用的技术验证和其他相关工作奠定了基础。针对601所飞机测试性建模工作，项目组编制了工作指南、培训材料和应用案例，并通过电话对数十家参研单位开展了测试性建模技术支持和培训。初步完成了整机测试性模型梳理与集成，以及针对液压系统、环控系统等7个分系统开展了测试性建模与分析工作，评估了产品的测试性设计状态，为后续的设备级测试性建模与综合诊断设计奠定了坚实的基础。两个项目组均以高标准、高要求、高效率、高质量完成了阶段性的任务，交付成果受到客户的一致认可。
当前，在疫情反复尚未解除的情况下，专项工作的开展还会遇到一些困难和阻碍，但项目组的成员们以推动航空工业“基础性”和“共用性”能力提升为目标，在做好疫情防控的同时，牢记使命，全力以赴确保年度科研生产任务的完成。

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## Deino



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## PeacefulWar

Deino said:


> View attachment 646056


Really? First flight in 2021?
Looking forward to it.

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## Deino

PeacefulWar said:


> Really? First flight in 2021?
> Looking forward to it.




How reliable do you rate this post?


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## PeacefulWar

Deino said:


> How reliable do you rate this post?


Let me verify if I can find the post on their official website.



Deino said:


> How reliable do you rate this post?


It is indeed posted by their offical WeChat account.
The original post can be found here: https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/4nnONJSSL1vBJOTS-9kFIQ

So looks very reliable!

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## lcloo

News report from Global Times

*China's new-generation fighter jet scheduled to make maiden flight in 2021: report*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times
Published: 2020/6/30 18:08:39





A Chinese FC-31 stealth fighter has its test flight ahead of the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province, Nov 10, 2014. Photo: Xinhua

China's new-generation fighter jet is scheduled to make its maiden flight in 2021, an aviation industry report revealed on Monday. Analysts speculate that it will be China's new aircraft carrier-based fighter jet.

A team at China Aero-Polytechnology Establishment under the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) has resumed work while fighting the COVID-19 epidemic with the aim of supporting the scheduled maiden flight of a new-generation fighter jet in 2021, according to a statement the Chinese Aeronautical Establishment released on its WeChat public account on Monday.

The statement was removed by its publisher as of Tuesday evening.

This team is responsible for the new fighter jet's basic technology project, and other institutes, including AVIC Shenyang Aircraft Design and Research Institute and the Chengdu-based No.29 Research Institute under the state-owned China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC), are also involved in its development, according to the statement.

The statement did not elaborate on the details of the new fighter jet, but the Shenyang institute is known for the development of the J-15, China's first type of aircraft carrier-based fighter jet, and the FC-31, China's second type of stealth aircraft rumored to be under deep modification to become a new aircraft carrier-based fighter jet.

*Based on available information, it is possible that the new fighter jet introduced in the Chinese Aeronautical Establishment statement is indeed a new aircraft carrier-based fighter jet developed from the FC-31*, Fu Qianshao, a Chinese air defense expert, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

Fu said that while the Chinese Air Force may eventually require a medium-sized stealth fighter jet to accompany the heavy J-20 stealth fighter jet, the Chinese Navy is in more urgent need of a stealth fighter jet on China's future aircraft carriers, as the US has already developed F-35B and F-35C stealth fighter jets for amphibious assault ships and aircraft carriers.

If this is the case, it will likely take another five years or so of testing following the maiden flight in 2021 to put the new fighter jet into active service, Fu said, noting that this time period could be shortened because the FC-31 has been tested as a technical demonstrator for many years.

According to a statement released by the Shenyang institute in December 2019, it has started developing a new type of fighter jet jointly with AVIC Manufacturing Technology Institute since 2018. This older report did not elaborate on the specifics of the new aircraft.

China is reportedly building its third and more advanced aircraft carrier at Shanghai's Jiangnan Shipyard, which is expected to be launched and commissioned in the 2020s. A more advanced fighter jet could greatly enhance the carrier's combat capability, analysts said.

There has also been speculation online by military enthusiasts claiming the new fighter jet could be a drone fighter jet or a space fighter jet.

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## Deino

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1193077.shtml


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1193077.shtml


Why didn't they contract 611 to do it? If anything 611 has a better reputation than 601 given the J-20s success ... or is there also a 611 carrier borne fighter also in the mix.


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## lcloo

I know a lot of people (including myself) wondering what is MBSE. So here it goes:-

*What is Model-Based Systems Engineering (MBSE)?*
*Question Variant(s): What is MBSE?; What is Model-Based Systems Development (MBSD)?; What is Agile MBSE?*
Model-Based Systems Engineering (MBSE), a.k.a. Model-Based Systems Development (MBSD), is a Systems Engineering process paradigm that emphasizes the application of rigorous architecture modeling principles and best practices to Systems Engineering activities throughout the System Development Life Cycle (SDLC). These Systems Engineering activities include, but are not limited to, requirements analysis, functional analysis, performance analysis, system design, trade studies, system architecture specification, and system Verification & Validation (V&V).
https://mbseworks.com/mbse-overview/

The MBSE team was sent from CAE (China aeronautical Establishment) to 601 institute as per the report.

At least 3 research and development institutions are involved in this NG naval fighter jet (J35?). CAE, Shenyang 601 and Chengdu 29 institutes.

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## Deino

Figaro said:


> Why didn't they contract 611 to do it? If anything 611 has a better reputation than 601 given the J-20s success ... or is there also a 611 carrier borne fighter also in the mix.




I don't think that you can generalise that "611 has a better reputation than 601" at all, especially given the success of SAC's Flanker family. Also I'm sure that besides pure military considerations, also industrial things must be considered since it would make CAC/611 the sole provider for fighters for decades and as such I would rate it an important aspect to keep two competitors alive and third, for a carrier-borne fighter I don't thin that SAC has a lower reputation than CAC.

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## Zarvan

J 31 is already making flights so what it could be ???


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## Deino

Zarvan said:


> J 31 is already making flights so what it could be ???




IMO the long expected J-35

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> IMO the long expected J-35


So it is confirmed the carrier fighter that is going to be a new version of the FC-31 (J-35)?



Deino said:


> I don't think that you can generalise that "611 has a better reputation than 601" at all, especially given the success of SAC's Flanker family. Also I'm sure that besides pure military considerations, also industrial things must be considered since it would make CAC/611 the sole provider for fighters for decades and as such I would rate it an important aspect to keep two competitors alive and third, for a carrier-borne fighter I don't thin that SAC has a lower reputation than CAC.


Hmm but the F-35 is also the carrier borne 5th generation fighter. Why can CAC not do the same if that's what the US did?


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## serenity

About the J-35. Basically the navy's version of FC-31 or J-31. It is talked like a new fighter because J-31/FC-31 are prototypes and before PLA financed it. Now this is referring to final PLA fighter for aircraft carriers. So it is what has been called J-35 for more than one year. It is developed from those J-31 prototypes.

This is not mysterious or any surprise. Known for many years navy will choose the fighter developed from J-31 and built by SAC. It is just now they announce it should be in flying test around next year.

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## vi-va

serenity said:


> About the J-35. Basically the navy's version of FC-31 or J-31. It is talked like a new fighter because J-31/FC-31 are prototypes and before PLA financed it. Now this is referring to final PLA fighter for aircraft carriers. So it is what has been called J-35 for more than one year. It is developed from those J-31 prototypes.
> 
> This is not mysterious or any surprise. Known for many years navy will choose the fighter developed from J-31 and built by SAC. It is just now they announce it should be in flying test around next year.





vi-va said:


> AWACS detect 4th generation jet(with weapon) in 300-400 km. AWACS detect jet in *70-150 km*, depends on angle of the jet.
> 
> Unlike land base radar network, naval radar network is very limited. *In stealthy era, AWACS detection range is not enough at all. Carrier air defense heavily depends on jet patrolling*, much more than 4th generation era. This is huge difference.
> 
> What is even worse, you need *2 jets patrolling in every directions*, so that 2 jet's electro-optical system manage a mini network for angle/distance measurement.
> 
> In 4th generation era, AWACS is deployed forward. So that threat can be mitigated. In 5th generation era, it's not.
> 
> In 4th generation era, one jet can cover 1-2 directions. *In 5th generation era, you need 500 km air defense, 2 jets can cover 1 direction only*.
> 
> In 2000s, AAM is about 50-75km. Now it's 160 km. Future it will be longer and longer.
> 
> The stress of carrier air defense is much heavier than before. You need at least 2-3 times jets for CAP only, and CAP is 24*7.
> 
> Once you get into the details of real operation, you will know what China carrier need.



I knew what's needed for carrier many many years ago. J-20 won't fit.


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## ILC

Does WS13/13E is ready for J-35? how is it different from Russian RD? Because I think WS-19 is many years from being ready.

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## LKJ86

Via 舰船知识

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## Ali_Baba

It would be interesting to see if China does modify the J-35 to have folding wings.

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## vi-va

Ali_Baba said:


> It would be interesting to see if China does modify the J-35 to have folding wings.


That's for sure. J-20 is not ideal for aircraft carrier, a little too big.


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## sheik

vi-va said:


> I knew what's needed for carrier many many years ago. J-20 won't fit.



"*In 5th generation era, you need 500 km air defense.*"

If that's the case, isn't range more important for the new carrier-borne fighter?
That means we need a heavy fighter that has a range similar to J-15.


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## sheik

Deino said:


> First of all I don't know how reliable this rumour is, however at ...... (where I found this one) is currently a heated debate going on:
> 
> https://www.weibo.com/1240246333/FDnc4zkUX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Deino



Now checking again 2.5 years later it seemed that guy WAS right...


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## Paul2

sheik said:


> "*In 5th generation era, you need 500 km air defense.*"
> 
> If that's the case, isn't range more important for the new carrier-borne fighter?
> That means we need a heavy fighter that has a range similar to J-15.


Indeed it is, the longer range, heavier carrier-borne multi-role planes are needed to keep the carrier out of harms way, but we don't have a carrier for them, nor have one in plans.

The biggest one in plans is just a stretched version of Kiev, possibly with some catapult.

But here comes a question, what do you want to do with your carriers? Small carriers with small fighter/bombers are best when you work against suppressed air defence, and you don't need to worry about some super duper missile coming your way.

Bigger carriers, with bigger, longer range, and more heavily armed planes should be able to safely work against the enemy with more potent air, and coastal defence.

China has no adversary nearby with any of that. Even Japan's, and SKs long range air defence is a joke, and they have no coastal defence as such.


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## Grandy

*China’s J-20 carrier-based jet fighter influenced by US – not Soviet – thinking, designer says*

As the race to find the best platform for a modified fighter hots up, designer wins critics’ support by selling the American angle
PLA Navy ‘should choose a reliable platform that has a long combat range and potential for development … and the best choice is the J-20,’ expert says
Minnie Chan
Published: 10:00pm, 2 Aug, 2020

The chief designer of the J-20 said the plane was a better match for US fighters. 




The chief designer of the J-20 said the plane was a better match for US fighters. Photo: Xinhua

As tensions between Beijing and Washington continue to rise, China’s military aircraft designers are racing to develop a next-generation fighter jet for use on the nation’s aircraft carriers capable of competing with their American rivals.

The two contenders are Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (CADI), which is working on a modified version of its J-20, and Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute, which is adapting its FC-31.

While both aircraft have been in development for many years, CADI’s chief designer, Yang Wei, said recently the J-20 was a better match for US fighters.

The aircraft was inspired by American theories on air combat and jet development, he said in a recent article published in the Chinese journal Acta Aeronautica et Astronautica Sinica.

Military observers said that by openly stating he had learned from American ideas, Yang was trying to promote the modified J-20 as a superior option to the adapted FC-31, which is based on much older, Soviet, designs.

The designer also said in the article that the US military had been able to develop a carrier-based jet fighter and put it into mass production in less than six years.

“If the [Chinese] leadership decides to use the FC-31 as the platform for the new carrier-based fighter, it would be at least 10 years before it was ready for full deployment, by which time the Americans would be even further ahead,” said a person with links to the military, who asked not to be named.

Yang said in the article, which was widely shared on military news websites, it was essential that the next-generation fighter had a long combat range, enhanced stealth capabilities and a bigger weapon load.






Beijing-based military expert Zhou Chenming said Yang wanted to prove the J-20 was not only a fifth-generation fighter, but could be a platform for “advanced induction reaction devices and other new technologies” capable of targeting the shortcomings of its American rival, the F-22 Raptor.

Fifth-generation fighters feature stealth technology, supersonic cruising speeds, super manoeuvrability and highly integrated avionics.

Zhou said that in the past, China’s aircraft designers had been heavily influenced by Russian thinking and because of that focused almost exclusively on the fighting capabilities of their jets. But Yang, he said, stressed the need to consider other factors as well.

“Because of the Russian influence, Chinese designers ignored things like avionics systems and weapons,” Zhou said. “Russia’s MiG-29, for instance, had no chance of competing with its American counterpart, the all-weather multirole F-16.”




China’s FC-31 is up to 12 tonnes lighter than the J-20. Photo: Weibo

One possible disadvantage of the J-20 as a carrier-based fighter is that it is much heavier than the FC-31. China’s newest aircraft carriers will be fitted with an electromagnetic catapult launch system, which although reducing take-off times comes with a weight restriction.

With a maximum weight of 25 tonnes, the FC-31 is up to 12 tonnes lighter than the J-20 and about three metres (10 feet) shorter.






The FC-31 was developed to match the United States’ F-35, which was built by Lockheed Martin and the platform for the carrier-based F-35B and F-35C.

Despite that comparison, Macau-based military expert Antony Wong Tong said the FC-31 was no match for the F-35 in terms of manoeuvrability or firepower.

“Based on China’s current technology and production capacity, the PLA Navy should choose a reliable platform that has a long combat range and potential for development. And the best choice for that is the J-20,” he said.

_This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as: J-20 carrier-based fighter ‘influenced by US ideas’_


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## Deino

*Oh PLEASE NOT Minnie Chan again!!! *

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## vi-va

sheik said:


> "*In 5th generation era, you need 500 km air defense.*"
> 
> If that's the case, isn't range more important for the new carrier-borne fighter?
> That means we need a heavy fighter that has a range similar to J-15.


It means you need more jets patrolling.

In the 4th generation era. E-2 Hawkeye AEW can provide the early warning. Now E-2 itself is a target which can be shot down from a far distance.

In the 4th generation era, E-2 is deployed forward, because it can find threat from at least 400-500 km away. There is enough time for F/A-18 to safe guard the defense front line.

In the 5th generation era, E-2 is deployed backward, unless E-2 upgraded to Anti-Stealth radar, such as metric-wave radar. The threat can be found by infrared sensor instead, but in a much shorter distance.

All in all, threat is much more lethal, defense is much harder nowadays.

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## Paul2

vi-va said:


> In the 4th generation era, E-2 is deployed forward, because it can find threat from at least 400-500 km away. There is enough time for F/A-18 to safe guard the defense front line.
> 
> In the 5th generation era, E-2 is deployed backward, unless E-2 upgraded to Anti-Stealth radar, such as metric-wave radar. The threat can be found by infrared sensor instead, but in a much shorter distance.
> 
> All in all, threat is much more lethal, defense is much harder nowadays.


Even this way, a stealth attacker flying low, and slow will likely be able to approach undetected to the striking distance.

Even "mild stealth" with average 29db signature reduction gets very close to 150km-100km range of modern long range BWR missiles.

A proper >31db stealth will certainly do that, and the next gen >34db materials will likely close the range to that of WWII era dogfighting.

A lot of the coming "5G" drones are purposefully subsonic.


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## vi-va

Paul2 said:


> Even this way, a stealth attacker flying low, and slow will likely be able to approach undetected to the striking distance.
> 
> Even "mild stealth" with average 29db signature reduction gets very close to 150km-100km range of modern long range BWR missiles.
> 
> A proper >31db stealth will certainly do that, and the next gen >34db materials will likely close the range to that of WWII era dogfighting.
> 
> A lot of the coming "5G" drones are purposefully subsonic.


dog fighting is not possible any more. Infrared sensor is good enough to make sure no fight within 50km-70km.

flying low will not be helpful. AEW will see you even further if your back exposed. The best height for stealthy jets is around 20,000 feet, the temperature, cloud, air density, humidity helps.


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## Paul2

vi-va said:


> dog fighting is not possible any more. Infrared sensor is good enough to make sure no fight within 50km-70km.
> 
> flying low will not be helpful. AEW will see you even further if your back exposed. The best height for stealthy jets is around 20,000 feet, the temperature, cloud, air density, humidity helps.


Really?

How much vision would an X band illuminator provide near to the ground, where X band performance is the worst, against a small, slow target with 31db attenuation?

And how the IR sensor the size of ones of jet fighters can detect a cold, subsonic target? If it can fly slower than km/h 700, even long wave IR will have hard time getting enough contrast. It can fly even slower, at speeds when aerodynamic heating is less than aerodynamic cooling.


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## vi-va

Paul2 said:


> Really?
> 
> How much vision would an X band illuminator provide near to the ground, where X band performance is the worst, against a small, slow target with 31db attenuation?
> 
> And how the IR sensor the size of ones of jet fighters can detect a cold, subsonic target? If it can fly slower than km/h 700, even long wave IR will have hard time getting enough contrast. It can fly even slower, at speeds when aerodynamic heating is less than aerodynamic cooling.


right now, none of the stealthy fighter nor bomber has 31db on the back. They all optimize front 30° to -30° .
Just take a look at the radar installation angle, it's upswept, around 15° to 20°. Not stealthy at all if your back exposed.





The F-35's Northrop Grumman-built AN-APG-81 AESA radar is the biggest antenna on any airplane.
http://interactive.aviationtoday.co...the-trillion-dollar-fighter-finally-worth-it/


IR is developing very fast.

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## Figaro

Via @siegecrossbow
_A recent notice posted by the Engine Design Department at Guiyang confirms that they are working on engines for naval fighters. This is indirect proof that an FC-31 variant will be the next generation naval fighter._

Most likely the engine in question is the 10 tonne, T/W 10 WS-19 turbofan.

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## Silicon0000

Figaro said:


> Via @siegecrossbow
> _A recent notice posted by the Engine Design Department at Guiyang confirms that they are working on engines for naval fighters. This is indirect proof that an FC-31 variant will be the next generation naval fighter._
> 
> Most likely the engine in question is the 10 tonne, T/W 10 WS-19 turbofan.
> View attachment 668722



Someone please translate


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## Figaro

Silicon0000 said:


> Someone please translate


Below is the relevant part of the translation. 

_A recent notice posted by the Engine Design Department at Guiyang confirms that they are working on engines for naval fighters. This is indirect proof that an FC-31 variant will be the next generation naval fighter._

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## Grandy

.
*The performance of the Chinese stealth carrier-based aircraft J-35 is not good? Expert: J-20 is the best choice!*

2020-10-10 17:49:02  

With the entry of the Shandong ship, the construction of the next generation of domestically-made aircraft carriers has become the focus of much attention, and the selection of stealth carrier-based aircraft has also attracted widespread attention. According to news from the aviation industry, the Navy’s fourth-generation aircraft is a fighter aircraft with a similar appearance to the FC-31. The evaluation given is “too advanced and not suitable for display.” In many people’s eyes, the selection of the Navy’s fourth-generation aircraft has been The dust settled. Public propaganda photos show that the test flight number of the Hai 4th generation may be "35001", and military fans call it "J-35". The aircraft is likely to complete its first flight in 2021.






However, the J-35 is controversial because it is derived from FC-31, and it is questioned that it has no advantage when facing the F-35 fighter. The correct choice should be the J-20H. On August 2, an article published in the South China Morning Post claimed that China’s stealth carrier-based aircraft should choose a more reliable platform, which requires a longer combat radius and development potential. The best choice is the J-20H. 

The article pointed out that China’s next-generation carrier-based aircraft will obviously be produced on the basis of the J-20 and FC-31. Both fighters have been developed for many years, but the strength gap is not small. An article published by the J-20 chief Yang Wei in the journal "Acta Aeronautica" stated that the development of the J-20 was inspired by the American OODA cycle theory, which divides fighter capabilities into four cycle stages: observation-judgment-decision-attack , The stronger the fighter's ability in the four stages, the higher the combat strength. F-22 is a product based on OODA's cycle theory 1.0, while J-20 is a product of 2.0. The design concept should be a whole generation ahead. Yang Chuan pointed out that the improved J-20 has more advantages than the improved FC-31, which is mainly reflected in the supersonic maneuverability, ammunition capacity, and range.




Some experts believe that it only takes 6 years for the United States to develop a stealth carrier-based aircraft and put it into mass production. The F-35 is also a product of OODA Cycle 2.0. It will take 10 years for China to develop a new carrier-based aircraft on the basis of the FC-31. In fact, it has been in a state of catching up with the United States and cannot surpass it. The F-35 is a single-engine medium-sized fighter with a maximum take-off weight of nearly 30 tons and a combat radius of 1,000 kilometers. Although the FC-31 is a dual-engine fighter, it is limited by its lack of engine capabilities. The current maximum take-off weight is only 26 tons, and the combat radius of the carrier-based aircraft cannot exceed 800 kilometers.
The maximum take-off weight of the J-20 is about 38 tons, and the length is more than 20 meters, which is only slightly smaller than the J-15. The advantage is that the combat power is far superior to that of the medium-sized fighters, but the disadvantage is that the long body of the aircraft will lead to fewer carrier-based aircraft deployments. The biggest advantage of FC-31 compared to J-20 is that it is 12 tons lighter and 3 meters shorter, which can make better use of aircraft carrier space. Military experts from Macau pointed out: “Based on China’s existing technology and production capabilities, FC-31 cannot surpass F-35 in terms of mobility and firepower. It should choose a more reliable platform with greater combat radius and development potential. A good choice is the J-20. As the J-20 is more mature, the development of carrier-based aircraft will be faster, and it will be able to overtake the F-35 in corners."




In fact, Australian military experts have a certain misunderstanding about the prospects of the J-35, and their judgment is still based on the FC-31. The real fourth-generation navy aircraft is a brand-new fighter. It will have comprehensive advantages over F-35. The prospects of the J-35 depend on the progress of the turbofan-19 engine, which has a thrust-to-weight ratio of more than 11, and the project has entered the high-altitude test flight stage, becoming China's first aero engine with the internationally leading level. The overall thrust of the J-35 equipped with the turbofan-19 will far exceed the F-35, with a maximum take-off and landing weight of 32 tons, and it will become an entry-level heavy fighter. The J-35 also has the advantage of being a late-comer. It will fully lead in radar, situational awareness, and electronic warfare equipment. Its ammunition, range, and maneuverability also surpass the F-35, and may even become the world's first "4S" compliant. Standard carrier aircraft.




The biggest challenge of J-35 is actually progress. Since the test flight of the turbofan-19 engine will take about 6 years, the batch delivery around 2028 is considered fast, which determines that the turbofan-13 engine will still be used in the early stage. The early version of the J-35 is destined for maneuverability, range, and ammunition.It lags behind the F-35 in many aspects such as volume, and has been in an incomplete state for a long time like the current J-20.




It is worth noting that the biggest advantage of the J-20's development of carrier-based aircraft is not only more powerful performance, but faster progress. Turbofan-15 is expected to be equipped in batches in three years. At that time, the J-20 will become the world's most powerful fourth-generation aircraft, and it will naturally be the strongest to be changed to a carrier-based aircraft. Due to the electromagnetic catapult adopted by China's next-generation aircraft carrier, there is no bottleneck for the take-off of the heavier J-20. Therefore, the J-20H should continue to be developed. In the short term, China can only develop the J-35 and J-15. 
In the future, the combination of J-20H and J-35 can be used on aircraft carriers. The combination of the J-20H’s combat advantages and the number of J-35 deployments is the best s Choice.

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## Deino

Grandy said:


> .
> *The performance of the Chinese stealth carrier-based aircraft J-35 is not good? Expert: J-20 is the best choice!*
> 
> 2020-10-10 17:49:02
> 
> With the entry of the Shandong ship, the construction of the next generation of domestically-made aircraft carriers has become the focus of much attention, and the selection of stealth carrier-based aircraft has also attracted widespread attention. According to news from the aviation industry, the Navy’s fourth-generation aircraft is a fighter aircraft with a similar appearance to the FC-31. The evaluation given is “too advanced and not suitable for display.” In many people’s eyes, the selection of the Navy’s fourth-generation aircraft has been The dust settled. Public propaganda photos show that the test flight number of the Hai 4th generation may be "35001", and military fans call it "J-35". The aircraft is likely to complete its first flight in 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, the J-35 is controversial because it is derived from FC-31, and it is questioned that it has no advantage when facing the F-35 fighter. The correct choice should be the J-20H. On August 2, an article published in the South China Morning Post claimed that China’s stealth carrier-based aircraft should choose a more reliable platform, which requires a longer combat radius and development potential. The best choice is the J-20H.
> 
> The article pointed out that China’s next-generation carrier-based aircraft will obviously be produced on the basis of the J-20 and FC-31. Both fighters have been developed for many years, but the strength gap is not small. An article published by the J-20 chief Yang Wei in the journal "Acta Aeronautica" stated that the development of the J-20 was inspired by the American OODA cycle theory, which divides fighter capabilities into four cycle stages: observation-judgment-decision-attack , The stronger the fighter's ability in the four stages, the higher the combat strength. F-22 is a product based on OODA's cycle theory 1.0, while J-20 is a product of 2.0. The design concept should be a whole generation ahead. Yang Chuan pointed out that the improved J-20 has more advantages than the improved FC-31, which is mainly reflected in the supersonic maneuverability, ammunition capacity, and range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some experts believe that it only takes 6 years for the United States to develop a stealth carrier-based aircraft and put it into mass production. The F-35 is also a product of OODA Cycle 2.0. It will take 10 years for China to develop a new carrier-based aircraft on the basis of the FC-31. In fact, it has been in a state of catching up with the United States and cannot surpass it. The F-35 is a single-engine medium-sized fighter with a maximum take-off weight of nearly 30 tons and a combat radius of 1,000 kilometers. Although the FC-31 is a dual-engine fighter, it is limited by its lack of engine capabilities. The current maximum take-off weight is only 26 tons, and the combat radius of the carrier-based aircraft cannot exceed 800 kilometers.
> The maximum take-off weight of the J-20 is about 38 tons, and the length is more than 20 meters, which is only slightly smaller than the J-15. The advantage is that the combat power is far superior to that of the medium-sized fighters, but the disadvantage is that the long body of the aircraft will lead to fewer carrier-based aircraft deployments. The biggest advantage of FC-31 compared to J-20 is that it is 12 tons lighter and 3 meters shorter, which can make better use of aircraft carrier space. Military experts from Macau pointed out: “Based on China’s existing technology and production capabilities, FC-31 cannot surpass F-35 in terms of mobility and firepower. It should choose a more reliable platform with greater combat radius and development potential. A good choice is the J-20. As the J-20 is more mature, the development of carrier-based aircraft will be faster, and it will be able to overtake the F-35 in corners."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, Australian military experts have a certain misunderstanding about the prospects of the J-35, and their judgment is still based on the FC-31. The real fourth-generation navy aircraft is a brand-new fighter. It will have comprehensive advantages over F-35. The prospects of the J-35 depend on the progress of the turbofan-19 engine, which has a thrust-to-weight ratio of more than 11, and the project has entered the high-altitude test flight stage, becoming China's first aero engine with the internationally leading level. The overall thrust of the J-35 equipped with the turbofan-19 will far exceed the F-35, with a maximum take-off and landing weight of 32 tons, and it will become an entry-level heavy fighter. The J-35 also has the advantage of being a late-comer. It will fully lead in radar, situational awareness, and electronic warfare equipment. Its ammunition, range, and maneuverability also surpass the F-35, and may even become the world's first "4S" compliant. Standard carrier aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge of J-35 is actually progress. Since the test flight of the turbofan-19 engine will take about 6 years, the batch delivery around 2028 is considered fast, which determines that the turbofan-13 engine will still be used in the early stage. The early version of the J-35 is destined for maneuverability, range, and ammunition.It lags behind the F-35 in many aspects such as volume, and has been in an incomplete state for a long time like the current J-20.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is worth noting that the biggest advantage of the J-20's development of carrier-based aircraft is not only more powerful performance, but faster progress. Turbofan-15 is expected to be equipped in batches in three years. At that time, the J-20 will become the world's most powerful fourth-generation aircraft, and it will naturally be the strongest to be changed to a carrier-based aircraft. Due to the electromagnetic catapult adopted by China's next-generation aircraft carrier, there is no bottleneck for the take-off of the heavier J-20. Therefore, the J-20H should continue to be developed. In the short term, China can only develop the J-35 and J-15.
> In the future, the combination of J-20H and J-35 can be used on aircraft carriers. The combination of the J-20H’s combat advantages and the number of J-35 deployments is the best s Choice.




Again, could you please give in these reports, who wrote them? Otherwise a report based on Minnie Chan's old - aka from August - dated BS-report is truly not the best way to gain credibility!

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## juj06750

hi, hong kong;
it sounds like another bad speculations from western media against our weapons
plz ignore such western speculative articles about chinese weapons;
they're really irritating and confusing us


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## Deino

juj06750 said:


> hi, hong kong;
> it sounds like another bad speculations *from western media *against our weapons
> plz ignore such western speculative articles about chinese weapons;
> *they're really irritating and confusing us*




Not sure why you once again twist words and accuse the Western media for "another bad speculations ... against our weapons", when the report itself mentiones it is based on the SCMP and we all know, who's the main driver of such stupid BS? Minnie Chan ... and not the Western media.

As such your biting reflex against stupid comments might be justified but given your bias it once again is aimed against the wrong target, which should be your own media.

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## juj06750

Deino said:


> Not sure why you once again twist words and accuse the Western media for "another bad speculations ... against our weapons", when the report itself mentiones it is based on the SCMP and we all know, who's the main driver of such stupid BS? Minnie Chan ... and not the Western media.
> As such your biting reflex against stupid comments might be justified but given your bias it once again is aimed against the wrong target, which should be your own media.


hi, deino
first of all, I replied to the post by grandy; saying better to ignore western baseless claims against chinese weapons; South China Morning Post (SCMP) is western friendly media based on hong kong; honestly, it's NOT chinese media; western and western friendly media constantly keep raising baseless questions against chinese weapons no matter how those are; so their claims are far more politically motivated than technically itself; and they really distract/irritate/waste what this forum is doing; as I said before, this forum should become place for exchange of strong evidence among technique mania (not for repeated discussion by western baseless claims)

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## Brainsucker

Grandy said:


> .
> *The performance of the Chinese stealth carrier-based aircraft J-35 is not good? Expert: J-20 is the best choice!*
> 
> 2020-10-10 17:49:02
> 
> With the entry of the Shandong ship, the construction of the next generation of domestically-made aircraft carriers has become the focus of much attention, and the selection of stealth carrier-based aircraft has also attracted widespread attention. According to news from the aviation industry, the Navy’s fourth-generation aircraft is a fighter aircraft with a similar appearance to the FC-31. The evaluation given is “too advanced and not suitable for display.” In many people’s eyes, the selection of the Navy’s fourth-generation aircraft has been The dust settled. Public propaganda photos show that the test flight number of the Hai 4th generation may be "35001", and military fans call it "J-35". The aircraft is likely to complete its first flight in 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, the J-35 is controversial because it is derived from FC-31, and it is questioned that it has no advantage when facing the F-35 fighter. The correct choice should be the J-20H. On August 2, an article published in the South China Morning Post claimed that China’s stealth carrier-based aircraft should choose a more reliable platform, which requires a longer combat radius and development potential. The best choice is the J-20H.
> 
> The article pointed out that China’s next-generation carrier-based aircraft will obviously be produced on the basis of the J-20 and FC-31. Both fighters have been developed for many years, but the strength gap is not small. An article published by the J-20 chief Yang Wei in the journal "Acta Aeronautica" stated that the development of the J-20 was inspired by the American OODA cycle theory, which divides fighter capabilities into four cycle stages: observation-judgment-decision-attack , The stronger the fighter's ability in the four stages, the higher the combat strength. F-22 is a product based on OODA's cycle theory 1.0, while J-20 is a product of 2.0. The design concept should be a whole generation ahead. Yang Chuan pointed out that the improved J-20 has more advantages than the improved FC-31, which is mainly reflected in the supersonic maneuverability, ammunition capacity, and range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some experts believe that it only takes 6 years for the United States to develop a stealth carrier-based aircraft and put it into mass production. The F-35 is also a product of OODA Cycle 2.0. It will take 10 years for China to develop a new carrier-based aircraft on the basis of the FC-31. In fact, it has been in a state of catching up with the United States and cannot surpass it. The F-35 is a single-engine medium-sized fighter with a maximum take-off weight of nearly 30 tons and a combat radius of 1,000 kilometers. Although the FC-31 is a dual-engine fighter, it is limited by its lack of engine capabilities. The current maximum take-off weight is only 26 tons, and the combat radius of the carrier-based aircraft cannot exceed 800 kilometers.
> The maximum take-off weight of the J-20 is about 38 tons, and the length is more than 20 meters, which is only slightly smaller than the J-15. The advantage is that the combat power is far superior to that of the medium-sized fighters, but the disadvantage is that the long body of the aircraft will lead to fewer carrier-based aircraft deployments. The biggest advantage of FC-31 compared to J-20 is that it is 12 tons lighter and 3 meters shorter, which can make better use of aircraft carrier space. Military experts from Macau pointed out: “Based on China’s existing technology and production capabilities, FC-31 cannot surpass F-35 in terms of mobility and firepower. It should choose a more reliable platform with greater combat radius and development potential. A good choice is the J-20. As the J-20 is more mature, the development of carrier-based aircraft will be faster, and it will be able to overtake the F-35 in corners."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, Australian military experts have a certain misunderstanding about the prospects of the J-35, and their judgment is still based on the FC-31. The real fourth-generation navy aircraft is a brand-new fighter. It will have comprehensive advantages over F-35. The prospects of the J-35 depend on the progress of the turbofan-19 engine, which has a thrust-to-weight ratio of more than 11, and the project has entered the high-altitude test flight stage, becoming China's first aero engine with the internationally leading level. The overall thrust of the J-35 equipped with the turbofan-19 will far exceed the F-35, with a maximum take-off and landing weight of 32 tons, and it will become an entry-level heavy fighter. The J-35 also has the advantage of being a late-comer. It will fully lead in radar, situational awareness, and electronic warfare equipment. Its ammunition, range, and maneuverability also surpass the F-35, and may even become the world's first "4S" compliant. Standard carrier aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge of J-35 is actually progress. Since the test flight of the turbofan-19 engine will take about 6 years, the batch delivery around 2028 is considered fast, which determines that the turbofan-13 engine will still be used in the early stage. The early version of the J-35 is destined for maneuverability, range, and ammunition.It lags behind the F-35 in many aspects such as volume, and has been in an incomplete state for a long time like the current J-20.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is worth noting that the biggest advantage of the J-20's development of carrier-based aircraft is not only more powerful performance, but faster progress. Turbofan-15 is expected to be equipped in batches in three years. At that time, the J-20 will become the world's most powerful fourth-generation aircraft, and it will naturally be the strongest to be changed to a carrier-based aircraft. Due to the electromagnetic catapult adopted by China's next-generation aircraft carrier, there is no bottleneck for the take-off of the heavier J-20. Therefore, the J-20H should continue to be developed. In the short term, China can only develop the J-35 and J-15.
> In the future, the combination of J-20H and J-35 can be used on aircraft carriers. The combination of the J-20H’s combat advantages and the number of J-35 deployments is the best s Choice.



Who is that expert? We don't even know anything about J-35, and this "expert" has decided that J-35 is a failed design.


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## Figaro

Brainsucker said:


> Who is that expert? We don't even know anything about J-35, and this "expert" has decided that J-35 is a failed design.


The word "expert" is carelessly thrown around in Chinese military articles these days ... you would be surprised that people think Minnie Chan is even an expert.

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## Deino

juj06750 said:


> hi, deino
> first of all, I replied to the post by grandy; saying better to ignore western baseless claims against chinese weapons; South China Morning Post (SCMP) is western friendly media based on hong kong; honestly, it's NOT chinese media; western and western friendly media constantly keep raising baseless questions against chinese weapons no matter how those are; so their claims are far more politically motivated than technically itself; and they really distract/irritate/waste what this forum is doing; as I said before, this forum should become place for exchange of strong evidence among technique mania (not for repeated discussion by western baseless claims)




Thanks for your kind reply, but again I must contradict.
I know there are indeed several most stupid and most often plain politically biased reports always trying to portray anything from China as either stolen of inferior, but you simply must ignore these in the same way I try to ignore such crappy reports from Minnie Chan. Therefore to say this report is a Western one when it is clearly based on the SCMP and then to label the SCMP as a "western" magazine is a lame argument. 



Brainsucker said:


> Who is that expert? We don't even know anything about J-35, and this "expert" has decided that J-35 is a failed design.



IMO it is @Grandy himself, or at least he could explain since he is the only one who posts this strange site.


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## Grandy

Different person may have different vision and interpretassion, its normal, not stranged. From now its different from years before, more archivedment breakthroughs will reveil in coming years. 
May be better like Dr. Carlo Cop (Australian), he can make more long article or long anallysis article rather than 1 or 2 picture and couple words only.


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## Deino

Grandy said:


> Different person may have different vision and interpretassion, its normal, not stranged. From now its different from years before, more archivedment will unveil in coming years.
> May be better like Dr. Carlo Cop (Australian), he can make more long article or long anallysis article rather than 1 or 2 picture and couple words only.




So these reports are written by you?

That alone is not an issue, since indeed we can have different opinions, but it is always nice to know with whom to discuss on what basis.


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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 702694




What does it say?


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## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> What does it say?



He claims that the J-31 (35?) will fly on 1/11/2021.

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## Deino

siegecrossbow said:


> He claims that the J-31 (35?) will fly on 1/11/2021.




Hmmm ... I know him quite well but anyway this sounds too good to be true.

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## IblinI

Deino said:


> Hmmm ... I know him quite well but anyway this sounds too good to be true.


IKR.


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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 702694



Anyhow, if there is even the slightest signs similar to the KJ-600 then I gonna take it as done. He said the next nine days as of Jan. 2nd, I personally will even give him the allowance for the next 90 days 

Let's embrace another great news in making... 

I do believe the 2021 will in no way be less grandeur than the 2020 for the PLA Watchers.

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## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 702694



I'm betting my PDF membership that this won't happen.

If it does, mods can delete my PDF account, and if it doesn't, the mods should delete this thread.


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## Deino

Akasa said:


> ..., and if it doesn't, the mods should delete this thread.



Why? Only since a certain rumoured deadline has been missed?

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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Why? Only since a certain rumoured deadline has been missed?


Why was our Indian friend so angry???

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## ILC

Because raj47 aka sino soldier aka akasa was banned at sino defence.

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## Deino

ILC said:


> Because raj47 aka sino soldier aka akasa was banned at sino defence.




I don't think they are the same, at least not RAJ47.


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## samsara

ILC said:


> Because raj47 aka sino soldier aka akasa was banned at sino defence.


At first I thought you're kidding but some look at SDF found it's true that the arduous *SinoSoldier* has been granted a one-month holiday there for expressing his genuine attitude... too bad that he suffered a short lapse thus forgot to put back his face mask during this pandemic period ... It's all about the Y-20B flying with the WS-20 engine -- true or false  btw correction: SinoSoldier there but no more here <==> Akasa here but not there (mutual-exclusive presence) ; dunno about raj47 --> did you mean this fantastic IND Col Vinayak Bhat (Retd)?

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## Deino

Hopefully soon


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347901801492787206

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## CIA Mole

Will this cost a lot due to dual engine?


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## Ali_Baba

It would be interesting to know the difference between J31 03 Prototype and the J35(other than the folding wings and stronger landing gears).


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## White and Green with M/S

Ali_Baba said:


> It would be interesting to know the difference between J31 03 Prototype and the J35(other than the folding wings and stronger landing gears).


it will have bigger wing area than 3rd prototype for better handling (low speed approach)


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## Silicon0000

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347901801492787206
> Hopefully soon
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347901801492787206




It seems to me like front of F35 and back of J20 joint together............


----------



## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348396814505017346

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## FuturePAF

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 702694


Isn’t the J-31 known as the “Snowy Owl”? A coy way to hint at the J-31 derivative?

Also, if this fighter is selected, the WS-19 will become a top priority, as it will be the engine that powers this plane, and this plane will be the most frontline fighter deployed of China. If it matches the higher thrust versions of the F414, it will allow the plane to match the TWR of the F-18E/F and the F-35, as well as making the J-35 potentially a top export fighter for decades to come.



Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348396814505017346



But that’s Wang Bingbing. Apparently the first love of many Chinese men.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348399212497661954

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## jupiter2007

CIA Mole said:


> Will this cost a lot due to dual engine?



Export cost will Probably be cost to 100 million each.


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## ziaulislam

Deino said:


> Hmmm ... I know him quite well but anyway this sounds too good to be true.


real question is not when J35 is going to fly but what is J35?
if its rebranded j31 then ofcourse it can fly


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## FuturePAF

ziaulislam said:


> real question is not when J35 is going to fly but what is J35?
> if its rebranded j31 then ofcourse it can fly



If it’s going to be the premier air defense fighter for the PLAN carrier battle group (The J-15 will probably become the dedicated strike platform and EW platform like the F-18), far away from any other support when on deployment, you can bet it will have to have the best of everything the PLAN can get its hands on. It will almost certainly be on par with the J-20, if only slightly scaled down.

An export variant, with less sensitive systems, and a reduced price, will probably be made a viable soon after for offer to Pakistan, and possibly for Iran, which needs to counter the UAE F-35s (especially once the WS-13E and/or WS-19 are ready, so China can be the only supplier).

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## Path-Finder

FuturePAF said:


> Isn’t the J-31 known as the “Snowy Owl”? A coy way to hint at the J-31 derivative?
> 
> Also, if this fighter is selected, the WS-19 will become a top priority, as it will be the engine that powers this plane, and this plane will be the most frontline fighter deployed of China. If it matches the higher thrust versions of the F414, it will allow the plane to match the TWR of the F-18E/F and the F-35, as well as making the J-35 potentially a top export fighter for decades to come.
> 
> 
> 
> But that’s Wang Bingbing. Apparently the first love of many Chinese men.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348399212497661954


Wang Bingbing! is this for real?

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## IblinI

Path-Finder said:


> Wang Bingbing! is this for real?






Her first vlog on Bilibili gained huge popularity and she has 3 million subs in a few days.

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## FuturePAF

@Deino She moved over.  

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348438776062775298

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## ziaulislam

FuturePAF said:


> If it’s going to be the premier air defense fighter for the PLAN carrier battle group (The J-15 will probably become the dedicated strike platform and EW platform like the F-18), far away from any other support when on deployment, you can bet it will have to have the best of everything the PLAN can get its hands on. It will almost certainly be on par with the J-20, if only slightly scaled down.
> 
> An export variant, with less sensitive systems, and a reduced price, will probably be made a viable soon after for offer to Pakistan, and possibly for Iran, which needs to counter the UAE F-35s (especially once the WS-13E and/or WS-19 are ready, so China can be the only supplier).


engine engine engine
if J35 is ready there is no sense in buying j10, even if j35 is delivered 5 years from now it is well worth the wait
even if its priced the twice as much
36 j35s are far better then 72 j10s

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## GS Zhou

ziaulislam said:


> engine engine engine
> if J35 is ready there is no sense in buying j10, even if j35 is delivered 5 years from now it is well worth the wait
> even if its priced the twice as much
> 36 j35s are far better then 72 j10s


sorry, but J35 is not for sales. Just like 052D or 055 not for sales, only 054 or 056 for the export market.

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## Path-Finder

IblinI said:


> Her first vlog on Bilibili gained huge popularity and she has 3 million subs in a few days.


well Thanks I thought it was a troll but it wasn't.


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## White and Green with M/S

GS Zhou said:


> sorry, but J35 is not for sales. Just like 052D or 055 not for sales, only 054 or 056 for the export market.


But, it will based on FC-31 which was export oriented, so there is a possibility that Pakistan specific version of J-35 will be still on the card


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## Daniel808

ziaulislam said:


> engine engine engine
> if J35 is ready there is no sense in buying j10, even if j35 is delivered 5 years from now it is well worth the wait
> even if its priced the twice as much
> 36 j35s are far better then 72 j10s



J-35 is a J/FC-31 variant specialized for EMALS Aircraft Carrier.

Pakistan already have 5th Gen Stealth Fighter Project (PF-X) with China in the name of Project AZM. Based on this J/FC-31.

Anyway I believe, that Pakistan will move to Hi-Lo Combination for their Air Forces. With J/FC-31, and J-10 & JF-17.

Just like China, even they already have J-20, they still pumping out J-10 & J-16 as their Hi-Lo Combination

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## LKJ86

FuturePAF said:


> Isn’t the J-31 known as the “Snowy Owl”?


No


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## Deino

White and Green with M/S said:


> brother its finalized Design by PAF not by me




No, it is just a fancy placeholder but IMO unlikely the finalised design.

Anyway, tthis thread is on the FC-31/J-31 and we have a dedicated thread on Azm in the PAF section.


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## Deino

What might appear soon 😮... the J-35, but this image looks still like a model or at best a nice CG.

(Image via @caster5 from lt.cjdby.net)

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## python-000

Deino said:


> What might appear soon 😮... the J-35, but this image looks still like a model or at best a nice CG.
> 
> (Image via @caster5 from lt.cjdby.net)
> 
> 
> View attachment 707340


Wowww is it real image or CG it is looks real leathel weapon or when they come on production line...


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## Deino

python-000 said:


> Wowww is it real image or CG it is looks real leathel weapon or when they come on production line...




IMO a CG at best ... just look at the details on the gear, the tail hook - which looks rather crude - and the nozzles.


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> What might appear soon 😮... the J-35, but this image looks still like a model or at best a nice CG.
> 
> (Image via @caster5 from lt.cjdby.net)
> 
> 
> View attachment 707340


The main landing gear looks like it is not strong enough for the hard landing on aircraft carrier.


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> What might appear soon 😮... the J-35, but this image looks still like a model or at best a nice CG.
> 
> (Image via @caster5 from lt.cjdby.net)
> 
> 
> View attachment 707340


CG
















Via @dingoogle from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> CG
> View attachment 707432
> View attachment 707433
> View attachment 707425
> View attachment 707426
> View attachment 707427
> 
> Via @dingoogle from Weibo




I really won't complain if the true SAC J-35 would look like this!

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## S10

Deino said:


> I really won't complain if the true SAC J-35 would look like this!


I don't like the fact that it doesn't have side bays. Given the amount of time they worked on the platform, I would have preferred it if they enlarged the plane and use WS-15 as engines instead.


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## Deino

Is this the SAC J-35 preparing for its maiden flight or yet another hyped post in the Chinese social media? 😮

"Shenyang test station message, is preparing for the first flight of the year"

Or is it simply the rear of FC-31 no. 31003? 🤔

via https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2689614&extra=page=1

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## Ali_Baba

It would be nice to see the J-35. We are so starved of aviation news right now, stuck in this covid nightmare ..

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Is this the SAC J-35 preparing for its maiden flight or yet another hyped post in the Chinese social media? 😮
> 
> "Shenyang test station message, is preparing for the first flight of the year"
> 
> Or is it simply the rear of FC-31 no. 31003? 🤔
> 
> via https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2689614&extra=page=1
> 
> 
> View attachment 709711
> 
> View attachment 709712
> 
> View attachment 709714


Chinese netizens always refer to maiden flight as 首飞, and first flight as 第一飞。

Since the original Chinese article is using the words first flight rather than maiden flight, then you got the idea.

Having saying that, there is still a possibility of a maiden flight though I would I think it is a very slim possibility in regard to this particular article, i.e. it may refer to first flight of the year for 31003.

I expect the first prototype of J35 will first appear in taxi run test rather than a maiden flight.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Chinese netizens always refer to maiden flight as 首飞, and first flight as 第一飞。
> 
> Since the original Chinese article is using the words first flight rather than maiden flight, then you got the idea.
> 
> Having saying that, there is still a possibility of a maiden flight though I would I think it is a very slim possibility in regard to this particular article, i.e. it may refer to first flight of the year for 31003.
> 
> I expect the first prototype of J35 will first appear in taxi run test rather than a maiden flight.




Thanks, even if a disappointment ... so "only" the first flight of 31003 in 2021.


----------



## CIA Mole

Deino said:


> Thanks, even if a disappointment ... so "only" the first flight of 31003 in 2021.


Will there be official pictures?


----------



## LKJ86

Via @航空知识 from Weixin


----------



## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 719898
> View attachment 719899
> 
> Via @航空知识 from Weixin




So the most important question now is: When will we finally see the prototype??

Any guess?? ... within the next weeks, months, only later this year?


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## python-000

Deino said:


> So the most important question now is: When will we finally see the prototype??
> 
> Any guess?? ... within the next weeks, months, only later this year?


Nooo my bro, the most importent question is when China start production of J-31/J-35...


----------



## Akasa

Regarding J-XY and a possible PLAAF version of FC-31:



> “目前，强度所型号研制工作已全面铺开，克服沈阳疫情影响圆满完成某型号试验机运输工作，共振团队高效优质完成21号工程地面振动模态试验，ARJ21-700全机疲劳试验有序推进……新春伊始，捷报频传。 ”
> 年初已经运到阎良了，坐等首飞
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 21号工程，有点意思



Source: https://weibo.com/7340233926/K9wNxg8BX

Also from Huitong:


> First flight is expected to be in 2022...a dedicated variant (*J-21*?) is being developed for PLAAF without arresting hook and folded wings. First flight is speculated to be by the end of this year.


----------



## Deino

Akasa said:


> Regarding J-XY and a possible PLAAF version of FC-31:
> 
> 
> 
> Source: https://weibo.com/7340233926/K9wNxg8BX
> 
> Also from Huitong:




But how reliable is @ 柳絮纷飞竟不是雪 ? ... and if true it would mean, that PLAAF variant could fly even before the PLAN NA J-35?


----------



## Akasa

Possible static test.
Can someone translate plz.


----------



## python-000

Akasa said:


> Possible static test.
> Can someone translate plz.
> 
> View attachment 733040


Is this a pruduction structure for J-31/J-35...!!!


----------



## Deino

Akasa said:


> Possible static test.
> Can someone translate plz.
> 
> View attachment 733040




I know I cannot read Chinese, but at least the image clearly says C919!? ... can anyone else better explain what this text says?


----------



## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> I know I cannot read Chinese, but at least the image clearly says C919!? ... can anyone else better explain what this text says?



It says “to guarantee the successful maiden flight of xxx (classified) type of aircraft ahead of the time”. Since the C919 has already flown, I don’t think that’s what they were referring to here.

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## Scorpiooo

Mean thay are already ahead of planned milestones, interesting news for 5th gen potential customers


----------



## Zarvan

A Chinese FC-31 stealth fighter has its test flight ahead of the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province, Nov 10, 2014. Photo: Xinhua



The FC-31, China's second stealth fighter jet, is a top candidate to become the country's next-generation aircraft carrier-based fighter jet after receiving corresponding upgrades, military observers said on Wednesday, after foreign media outlets posted a photo showing a full-size model of the fighter that was recently spotted on a full-size mock aircraft carrier, allegedly used to evaluate the country's carrier development.

An unverified photo recently surfaced on social media that, for the first time, showed an FC-31-like model positioned on the full-size mock aircraft carrier located in Wuhan, Central China's Hubei Province. It was being used to evaluate aircraft for potential use at sea, US media outlet thedrive.com reported on Tuesday.

Mock-ups of other aircraft, including J-15 carrier-based fighter jets and a Z-18 ship-borne helicopter, were also seen in the photo. These two aircraft are already being used on China's current aircraft carriers, the Liaoning and the Shandong.

Putting a full-size aircraft model on the mock aircraft carrier test platform indicates that the aircraft could be an option for carrier usage, since this procedure could be used to test the aircraft's size, operational scope and compatibility on a real-size carrier flight deck, Fu Qianshao, a Chinese military aviation expert, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

This means that the FC-31, once it is upgraded to suit the needs of carrier operations, could be a top option for China's next-generation carrier-based fighter jet, Fu predicted.

As a medium-sized stealth aircraft, the FC-31 is unlikely to replace the heavy but non-stealth J-15, as the two will complement each other for the foreseeable future, similar to the relationship between the US' F-35C and F/A-18, Fu said. China's carrier-based fighter jet combination will be able to compete with the world's most advanced planes, said Fu.

This is not the first time a new carrier-based aircraft has been spotted on the mock aircraft carrier deck in Wuhan.

Another sighting took place in July 2018, when a mock-up of what was believed to be a KJ-600 fixed-wing, carrier-based early warning aircraft was photographed on the concrete-made mock carrier, Beijing-based newspaper Science and Technology Daily reported at the time. 

The KJ-600 eventually made its reported maiden flight in August 2020, and it is widely expected to be on board China's future aircraft carriers.

The Chinese Navy is not only developing warships very fast, but also develops the equipment of its aviation force, as it is getting more aircraft types including fixed-wing, carrier-based early warning aircraft that would increase its comprehensive combat capabilities, Fu said. 

Upgraded FC-31 top candidate for China’s next-generation carrier-based stealth fighter jet: observer - Global Times

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## Deino

Just since it seems to be more related to the new type than the FC-31 ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404695899008344067
Wow ... this is interesting!  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404784762821038081


----------



## casual

Deino said:


> Just since it seems to be more related to the new type than the FC-31 ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404695899008344067
> Wow ... this is interesting!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404784762821038081


First I've heard of a J15T.


----------



## Deino

Huitong has updated his site with a larger and slightly better image of the alleged J-35 (?) mock-up at the Wuhan carrier mock up.

(Image courtesy of MMQR via Huitong's CMA-Blog)

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## python-000

Deino said:


> Huitong has updated his site with a larger and slightly better image of the alleged J-35 (?) mock-up at the Wuhan carrier mock up.
> 
> (Image courtesy of MMQR via Huitong's CMA-Blog)
> 
> View attachment 759515


Engine nozzles also looks different...

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## Deino

python-000 said:


> Engine nozzles also looks different...




Yes, but I won't read too much into details on a crude mock-up.


----------



## Deino

What do you think?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412455011569840132

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## Akasa

Deino said:


> What do you think?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412455011569840132



According to "OneNinety" the photos were taken on July 6 of this year at roughly 4:00 pm local Chinese time.

Here is the link to the original post.



https://weibo.com/6095935299/Knw9ZdusQ

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## Ali_Baba

Deino said:


> What do you think?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412455011569840132



I guess we will find out soon !!! Seeing a J-35 would be good news for sure.

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## Scorpiooo

J31 and J35 will remain 2 different variant of same jet as per role or they become entirely separate jets


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## Ali_Baba

Scorpiooo said:


> J31 and J35 will remain 2 different variant of same jet as per role or they become entirely separate jets



The J31 was a technology demonstrator - it is now dead. The J35 is the offical programme for the PLAAN and it will form the basis of a PLAAF variant if the PLAAF want it. 

Here is a good resource on the programme.





__





Chinese Military Aviation


China Air Force




chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com

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## Deino

Based on @winword's CG I received this interesting reply


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422962086401871872

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## juj06750

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422962086401871872


rather; you must know PLAAF does NOT care if you complain;
please remember this forum is just fan site


----------



## Deino

juj06750 said:


> rather; you must know PLAAF does NOT care if you complain;
> please remember this forum is just fan site




I‘m well aware that the PLAAF does not care on my opinion .. in the same way no-one cares about your abstruse claims here!

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## world of power

Deino said:


> I‘m well aware that the PLAAF does not care on my opinion .. in the same way no-one cares about your
> abstruse claims here!


he's just saying what you're doing
plz be nice to others


----------



## White and Green with M/S

juj06750 said:


> rather; you must know PLAAF does NOT care if you complain;
> please remember this forum is just fan site


If this forum is a fan site than why you're here??, your useless/baseless egoistic posts/nonsense are worth noting here, every new Chinese military jets had CGI images before it had been revealed by PLAAF, for Example J10 had a CGI images before its Revealed by PLAAF and same goes to J20

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## world of power

White and Green with M/S said:


> If this forum is a fan site than why you're here??, your useless/baseless egoistic posts/nonsense are worth noting here, every new Chinese military jets had CGI images before it had been revealed by PLAAF, for Example J10 had a CGI images before its Revealed by PLAAF and same goes to J20


yes it's great fan site with information;; so we're here to share such common interests;;;
it seems china usually releases CG images and mock-ups before it makes (but NOT sure for all new jets;;; should it?) I don't know why you guys hate him but let be nice for forum;;


----------



## White and Green with M/S

world of power said:


> yes it's great fan site with information;; so we're here to share such common interests;;;
> it seems china usually releases CG images and mock-ups before it makes (but NOT sure for all new jets;;; should it?) I don't know why you guys hate him but let be nice for forum;;


He always insulted ànd taunt others ànd always pretend to that he knows all aerospace technologies that's why we hate him and this forum is also discuss strategies/ tactics geopolitical situation of the world aerospace technologies etc etc


----------



## world of power

White and Green with M/S said:


> He always insulted ànd taunt others ànd always pretend to that he knows all aerospace technologies that's why we hate him and this forum is also discuss strategies/ tactics geopolitical situation of the world aerospace technologies etc etc


we must acknowledge we share only leaked or common information on this forum;;; it's NOT like government office, meaning that information access is basically limited;;; we discuss what happened but be careful when we discuss what will happen;;; anyway it's great fan site; I like it

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## White and Green with M/S

world of power said:


> we must acknowledge we share only leaked or common information on this forum;;; it's NOT like government office, meaning that information access is basically limited;;; we discuss what happened but be careful when we discuss what will happen;;; anyway it's great fan site; I like it


So tell us which forums are backed by govt and official sources in internet world?


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## Deino

So the only question remains: WHEN will we finally see that bird???


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430097901233983494

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## python-000

Deino said:


> So the only question remains: WHEN will we finally see that bird???
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430097901233983494


It's looks like a folding wing design of J-35 for Chinese Navy & @Deino you are absolutly right bro J-31 flying since 2011 but still not come in production line or induction position. But now things are getting change...


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## White and Green with M/S

python-000 said:


> It's looks like a folding wing design of J-35 for Chinese Navy & @Deino you are absolutly right bro J-31 flying since 2011 but still not come in production line or induction position. But now things are getting change...


No j-20 had a first flight in 2011 FC-31/J-31 had a first flight much later I think, it had a first flight in 2013 or 2014


----------



## Deino

python-000 said:


> It's looks like a folding wing design of J-35 for Chinese Navy & @Deino you are absolutly right bro J-31 flying since 2011 but still not come in production line or induction position. But now things are getting change...





White and Green with M/S said:


> No j-20 had a first flight in 2011 FC-31/J-31 had a first flight much later I think, it had a first flight in 2013 or 2014




No, 31001 demonstrator flew first on October 31, 2012 and no. 31003 on December 18, 2016.

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## johncliu88

Are we going to see this plane again in the up coming Zhuhai airshow?


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## Deino

johncliu88 said:


> Are we going to see this plane again in the up coming Zhuhai airshow?




Actually I don't think the plane itself, but maybe some hints or a glimpse in a promotional video


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## sheik

歼15总师：下一代舰载机年内就能亮相_孙聪


今天（9月29日）上午，“国产战鹰护卫祖国空天安全之大国重器向祖国汇报”展会在本届珠海航展中航工业新闻发布区举行。航空工业歼15、“鹘鹰”总设计师 孙聪院士在回答提问时谈到下一代舰载机表示，不出意外的话，下一…




m.sohu.com






https://news.sina.cn/gn/2021-09-29/detail-iktzqtyt8759513.d.html?from=wap



According to Sun Cong, the chief designer of J-15 and FC-31, in a press briefing at Zhuhai today, the next generation of carrier based fighter will debut this year.

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## Deino

sheik said:


> 歼15总师：下一代舰载机年内就能亮相_孙聪
> 
> 
> 今天（9月29日）上午，“国产战鹰护卫祖国空天安全之大国重器向祖国汇报”展会在本届珠海航展中航工业新闻发布区举行。航空工业歼15、“鹘鹰”总设计师 孙聪院士在回答提问时谈到下一代舰载机表示，不出意外的话，下一…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.sohu.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://news.sina.cn/gn/2021-09-29/detail-iktzqtyt8759513.d.html?from=wap
> 
> 
> 
> According to Sun Cong, the chief designer of J-15 and FC-31, in a press briefing at Zhuhai today, the next generation of carrier based fighter will debut this year.




Indeed 







See also









China to reveal new progress on next-gen carrier-based fighter in 2021: chief designer - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn


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## Deino

Huitong has just updated his CMA-Blog with the following rumour: 😮

"The latest rumor (October 2021) claimed that the J-35 prototype just successfully conducted its maiden flight."

Is already any more known and what does the Chinese social media community say? 🤔

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> Huitong has just updated his CMA-Blog with the following rumour: 😮
> 
> "The latest rumor (October 2021) claimed that the J-35 prototype just successfully conducted its maiden flight."
> 
> Is already any more known and what does the Chinese social media community say? 🤔
> 
> View attachment 784846


If this is true, it is indeed the best news in this forum. Go China Navy!

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## Ali_Baba

A successful J-35 may lead to the J-21 ( the PLAAF variant ). If so - then it is a possible Option for the PAF if it proves to be successful in PLAN/PLAAF ..

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## Deino

There's some rumour ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453704410144509953

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## Shotgunner51

Ali_Baba said:


> A successful J-35 may lead to the J-21 ( the PLAAF variant ). If so - then it is a possible Option for the PAF if it proves to be successful in PLAN/PLAAF ..


Open to PAF I believe so, but PLAAF I'm not so sure. IMO J-XY has always been a navy-centric project, and naval concerns champ all like aspect ratio, low speed maneuverability, advanced built-in EW suite (similar to F-35 role in NIIF-CA) and such. We all know there are always gives and takes, industrial design is always a compromise, I believe J-XY is a jet optimized for CV and naval doctrine from its 1st day on drawing board.

Of course variant for PLAAF can't be ruled out, but apparently they are going for a full hi-thrust fleet (twin hi-thrust for heavy air superiority / EW, single hi-thrust for medium multi-role), whether they will induct a twin-medium thrust jet hence complicating logistics/maintenance is a question, especially when the jet is not a game-changer, and roles are currently undertaken by an up-gradable platform (J-10 series) or even UAV. Limited financial budget is a tough reality, I guess PLAAF's short-term priorities are confined to building a strategic fleet (bombers, tankers, AWACS, transport), C4ISR infrastructure, and continue to fill tactical fleet (20/11/16/10/GJ-11/WZ-7/WZ-8) in numbers.

Going back to PAF/PAC, it may indeed be a good option, PAC might even become a hub for J-XY's re-designed land-based variant, while SAC remains a hub for original PLAN variant. Just like JF-17, J-XY also employs medium thrust engine (the only difference is number), two platforms have potential to partially unite their supply chain. And we all know land-based variant for whatever jet is by nature only simpler, and better, than its CV variant. For PAF, the 36 J-10C is more like an instant booster (a stop gap move), I believe J-XY could be the long term move.

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## jaybird

Looks like first flight did took place.

From OedoSoldier








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453934532814520325

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## Akasa

jaybird said:


> Looks like first flight did took place.
> 
> From OedoSoldier
> View attachment 788431
> View attachment 788432
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453934532814520325



Very interesting development.

If this bird manages to get fifth-generation avionics, genuine radar-absorbent material, airframe redesigns to reduce its RCS, and a new suite of AAMs, it might potentially come close to matching the performance of the *AMCA *in the far future.

Not a bad start for a country that was until very recently still mostly reliant on a geriatric fleet of MiG-21 derivatives and Q-5 Fantans.

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## jaybird

Akasa said:


> Very interesting development.
> 
> If this bird manages to get fifth-generation avionics, genuine radar-absorbent material, airframe redesigns to reduce its RCS, and a new suite of AAMs, it might potentially come close to matching the performance of the *AMCA *in the far future.
> 
> Not a bad start for a country that was until very recently still mostly reliant on a geriatric fleet of MiG-21 derivatives and Q-5 Fantans.



Sadly... In my opinion J-35 will still come up short against AMCA unless China hire Hindustan Aeronautics Limited engineers to assist and work on the project.

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## Akasa

52051 said:


> You have smoked too much cow dungs now it cause you are cow dung overdose
> 
> View attachment 788438
> 
> View attachment 788441
> 
> View attachment 788440
> 
> View attachment 788439
> 
> View attachment 788437
> 
> View attachment 788436



Please try to make at least a couple of consecutive posts without going off-topic.


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## 52051

Akasa said:


> Please try to make at least a couple of consecutive posts without going off-topic.



Bring in AMCA is considered way off topic since we are comparing something flying now with a cow dung project that may eventually end up being a plane by the end of this century.

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## Akasa

52051 said:


> Bring in AMCA is considered way off topic since we are comparing something flying now with a cow dung project that may eventually end up being a plane by the end of this century.



It's a fair comparison of two fighter projects that are more or less of the same weight category and function.

Don't let your emotions get in the way of fact and reality.


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## GiantPanda

Lol. Indians actually brought up the on-paper-only AMCA into this discussion.

Delusional to the max.

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## 52051

Akasa said:


> It's a fair comparison of two fighter projects that are more or less of the same weight category and function.
> 
> Don't let your emotions get in the way of fact and reality.



Its not fair to compare an Chinese fighter up and flying with a PPT project, especially a indian one.

I can just compare my own 8th generation super space fighter project with the cow dump called AMCA, its a fairer comparison, you know, PPT vs PPT.

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## Deino

Akasa said:


> Very interesting development.
> 
> If this bird manages to get fifth-generation avionics, genuine radar-absorbent material, airframe redesigns to reduce its RCS, and a new suite of AAMs, it might potentially come close to matching the performance of the *AMCA *in the far future.
> 
> Not a bad start for a country that was until very recently still mostly reliant on a geriatric fleet of MiG-21 derivatives and Q-5 Fantans.




Either this is pure irony I missed to notice or a plain stupid post aimed again - and already with results as you see on the comments - to initiate a flame war


jaybird said:


> Looks like first flight did took place.
> 
> From OedoSoldier
> View attachment 788431
> View attachment 788432
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453934532814520325




Congrats!


Akasa said:


> It's a fair comparison of two fighter projects that are more or less of the same weight category and function.
> 
> Don't let your emotions get in the way of fact and reality.




No, it's nothing but a plain stupid attempt of trolling!

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## KampfAlwin

Akasa said:


> Very interesting development.
> 
> If this bird manages to get fifth-generation avionics, genuine radar-absorbent material, airframe redesigns to reduce its RCS, and a new suite of AAMs, it might potentially come close to matching the performance of the *AMCA *in the far future.
> 
> Not a bad start for a country that was until very recently still mostly reliant on a geriatric fleet of MiG-21 derivatives and Q-5 Fantans.


Damn, SinoSoldier’s at it again.

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## GiantPanda

Deino said:


> Either this is pure irony I missed to notice or a plain stupid post aimed again - and already with results as you see on the comments - to initiate a flame war
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's nothing but a plain stupid attempt of trolling!




Indians have no irony. They actually believe it is fair comparison between their aspirational stuff and the real stuff that China has flying. We've seen it before time and again. lol

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## python-000

jaybird said:


> Looks like first flight did took place.
> 
> From OedoSoldier
> View attachment 788431
> View attachment 788432
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453934532814520325


WoW its looks nice BUT dont know when it ramp up on Production line...

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## khanasifm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453951545070870537

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## Dungeness

GiantPanda said:


> Indians have no irony. They actually believe it is fair comparison between their aspirational stuff and the real stuff that China has flying. We've seen it before time and again. lol



That's why they are just so annoying. It seems the mouth is their only functional bodypart.

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## luciferdd

python-000 said:


> WoW its looks nice BUT dont know when it ramp up on Production line...


It's a standar shipborne fighter,the development progress will be synchronized with the construction plan of the aircraft carrier 003.

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## GiantPanda

BTW, this marks the first time I've seen neon-green instead of banana-yellow on a Chinese proto.


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## PurpleButcher

On a lighter note

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453940153693577217

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## IblinI

JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453940153693577217


Lol, the indian in the comment section, iq 70 at max.

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## siegecrossbow

In retrospect, it is a shame that Pakistan went for J-10C... But then again who knows.

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## luciferdd

siegecrossbow said:


> In retrospect, it is a shame that Pakistan went for J-10C... But then again who knows.


This plane will not be exported before 2030~2035,China need 5~7 years to finish all the test of J35.And J35 for now is a shipborne jet,it need more time to R&D a land-based model.

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## Shotgunner51

siegecrossbow said:


> In retrospect, it is a shame that Pakistan went for J-10C... But then again who knows.


Inducting 36 units of J-10C off-the-shelf is more like a stop gap move, I can also feel the heat from "supapowa". But in the long run getting a land-based variant of J-XY could be a good option for PAF/PAC, there is even an opportunity for J-XY and JF-17 to partially unite their supply chain like med-thrust engine.

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## sheik

sheik said:


> 歼15总师：下一代舰载机年内就能亮相_孙聪
> 
> 
> 今天（9月29日）上午，“国产战鹰护卫祖国空天安全之大国重器向祖国汇报”展会在本届珠海航展中航工业新闻发布区举行。航空工业歼15、“鹘鹰”总设计师 孙聪院士在回答提问时谈到下一代舰载机表示，不出意外的话，下一…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.sohu.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://news.sina.cn/gn/2021-09-29/detail-iktzqtyt8759513.d.html?from=wap
> 
> 
> 
> According to Sun Cong, the chief designer of J-15 and FC-31, in a press briefing at Zhuhai today, the next generation of carrier based fighter will debut this year.



It comes true in one month. Yay!

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## world of power

Akasa said:


> Very interesting development.
> If this bird manages to get fifth-generation avionics, genuine radar-absorbent material, airframe redesigns to reduce its RCS, and a new suite of AAMs, it might potentially come close to matching the performance of the *AMCA *in the far future.
> Not a bad start for a country that was until very recently still mostly reliant on a geriatric fleet of MiG-21 derivatives and Q-5 Fantans.


that is india;; china DEFINITELY technology power with its massive arms industry;; also a big player in global arms market;; such two can't match against;; one is global arms maker, while the other NEVER made any arms successfully

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## White and Green with M/S

Akasa said:


> Very interesting development.
> 
> If this bird manages to get fifth-generation avionics, genuine radar-absorbent material, airframe redesigns to reduce its RCS, and a new suite of AAMs, it might potentially come close to matching the performance of the *AMCA *in the far future.
> 
> Not a bad start for a country that was until very recently still mostly reliant on a geriatric fleet of MiG-21 derivatives and Q-5 Fantans.


MY BOY PLAAF ALSO OPERATES HUNDREDS OF J11/SU27/J15/1/ SU30/MKK2 AND J10


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## LeGenD

China’s Carrier-Capable Naval Stealth Fighter Has Flown


The long-awaited naval version of the FC-31 aims to provide China’s expanding carrier fleet with a stealthy multi-role fighter.




www.thedrive.com

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## nang2

LeGenD said:


> China’s Carrier-Capable Naval Stealth Fighter Has Flown
> 
> 
> The long-awaited naval version of the FC-31 aims to provide China’s expanding carrier fleet with a stealthy multi-role fighter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com


It has finally won the heart of PLAN.  Good work!

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## siegecrossbow

PurpleButcher said:


> On a lighter note
> View attachment 788467



J-35 is the better looking bird of the two from a conventional standpoint.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454332917707063296
and a bit modified








also interesting:

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## Ali_Baba

nang2 said:


> It has finally won the heart of PLAN.  Good work!



And if the PLAN does order it - then there is a chance that it will win the heart of the PAF also - I am sure PAF is waiting for China to commit to it first before taking a look ... the memory of PLAAF backing out of the FC-1/JF-17 procurement still stings in the minds of the PAF.


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## Silicon0000

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454332917707063296
> and a bit modified
> 
> View attachment 788815
> 
> 
> 
> also interesting:
> 
> View attachment 788816




I am not sure but I think being Carrier borne there must be some kind of wheel reinforcement.



Deino said:


> 788816[/ATTACH]



View attachment 788816

[/QUOTE]


This looks more similar except Air Intakes 🤔


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## FuturePAF

Ali_Baba said:


> And if the PLAN does order it - then there is a chance that it will win the heart of the PAF also - I am sure PAF is waiting for China to commit to it first before taking a look ... the memory of PLAAF backing out of the FC-1/JF-17 procurement still stings in the minds of the PAF.



For Pakistan, while it stings that they didn’t commit to procuring their own, at least the selection of the J-35 by the PLAN will mean accelerated development of the “Medium Thrust” Engine. Supposedly this plane flew with the WS-21 engines, although I doubt they would do that on a maiden flight.

If the Engine catches up the GE F-414 Engines; it could allow the JF-17 to have the same thrust as our F-16 Block 52s (and maybe able to match the UAE block 60s) allowing the plane to have the electrical power to be a match for any F-16 variant, if we so choose to upgrade our JF-17s down the line. It would give new impetus for a further development of the type, if they know that a much more powerful engine (20-30% increase in thrust, super-cruise) would come available down the line.

It would open up potentially more export customers as well, especially if a reduced RCS follow on design were developed; with two variants; one manned and one unmanned (loyal wingman). Something for those “Non-aligned” nations and neutrals.

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## The Eagle

siegecrossbow said:


> In retrospect, it is a shame that Pakistan went for J-10C... But then again who knows.



For J-35 or FC-31, I will still reserve my choice since missing of side-bays especially for side-winders/AAMs. With only one bay under belly, somehow limits the utilization under environment that warrants stealth capability to the fullest.

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## Shotgunner51

FuturePAF said:


> accelerated development of the “Medium Thrust” Engine


Exactly, you nail right on it.


Ali_Baba said:


> the memory of PLAAF backing out of the FC-1/JF-17 procurement still stings in the minds of the PAF


Bro I think perhaps there is misunderstanding somewhere, but of course I wouldn't know what exactly happened back then. Apparently PLAAF has been procuring a full high-thrust engine fleet (two for heavy flankers, one for medium multi-role J-10) for quite sometime, everything revolves around AL-31 and its replacement WS-10 (and next gen WS-15 for J-20), and that's also why I don't think PLAAF will induct J-XY which employs medium engine config (twin) any time soon. J-XY from its 1st day on drawing board has always been a naval design eyeing PLAN as pilot user, perhaps similar story applies here that FC-1/JF-17 has always been a PAF-specific design to begin with. Just my opinion.

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## FuturePAF

The Eagle said:


> For J-35 or FC-31, I will still reserve my choice since missing of side-bays especially for side-winders/AAMs. With only one bay under belly, somehow limits the utilization under environment that warrants stealth capability to the fullest.



Perhaps they will add it in, consider the input from everyone mentioning it, especially if the size of the plane has been increased to allow for a side bay. If it’s going to be a real fleet defense fighter, it’s have to be optimized for that role. The limitation maybe the size due to the underpowered engines. Once the engines are powerful enough, a slightly larger design with side bays is possible if it is desired.

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## Scorpiooo



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## IblinI

The Eagle said:


> For J-35 or FC-31, I will still reserve my choice since missing of side-bays especially for side-winders/AAMs. With only one bay under belly, somehow limits the utilization under environment that warrants stealth capability to the fullest.


Side bay area is replaced with EW equipment, big shrimps suggest the plane is a combination of the best from our aviation industry at this stage with new craftmanship, ew system, materials etc.

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## Brainsucker

I'm curious about the engine. Is it a new medium trust or the bigger WS10? I remember someone said about replacing the engine with WS10. But who know. The aircraft looks smaller than Flanker. So I doubt that it is WS10.


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## Shotgunner51

Brainsucker said:


> I'm curious about the engine. Is it a new medium trust or the bigger WS10? I remember someone said about replacing the engine with WS10. But who know. The aircraft looks smaller than Flanker. So I doubt that it is WS10.


Obviously they can't be WS-10 high-thrust, it's a pair of medium-thrust. Conservatively speaking, likely to be WS-13E, same as the ones installed on FC-31 testbed #31003 (flown on 1st July 2016), 9.5 tons, thrust-to-weight ratio 8.6, or perhaps further improved version but unlikely to be WS-19 series.

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## FuturePAF

Shotgunner51 said:


> Obviously they can't be WS-10 high-thrust, it's a pair of medium-thrust. Conservatively speaking, likely to be WS-13E, same as the ones installed on FC-31 testbed #31003 (flown on 1st July 2016), 9.5 tons, thrust-to-weight ratio 8.6, or perhaps further improved version but unlikely to be WS-19 series.



Perhaps the 9500 kg engine has matured enough?

















China completes construction of medium-thrust aeroengine production line - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn


----------



## Shotgunner51

FuturePAF said:


> Perhaps the 9500 kg engine has matured enough?
> View attachment 788987
> 
> View attachment 788988
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China completes construction of medium-thrust aeroengine production line - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn


Yes that's highly possible by now since its debut appearance 5 years ago, WS-13E should be the one used on J-XY.

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## Deino

FuturePAF said:


> Perhaps the 9500 kg engine has matured enough?
> View attachment 788987
> 
> View attachment 788988
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China completes construction of medium-thrust aeroengine production line - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn




This medium thrust engine IS the WS-13 or in an improved form, it may be called WS-21; at least per Huitong!

Honestly, why shall we expect the WS-19 to appear sooner than the WS-15, which's development started earlier? Even more, we know one single grainy image of an alleged WS-19 at a test-stand and by all I know, they are never testing a new fighter for the first time during its maiden flight with an unproven engine.

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## Brainsucker

Shotgunner51 said:


> Obviously they can't be WS-10 high-thrust, it's a pair of medium-thrust. Conservatively speaking, likely to be WS-13E, same as the ones installed on FC-31 testbed #31003 (flown on 1st July 2016), 9.5 tons, thrust-to-weight ratio 8.6, or perhaps further improved version but unlikely to be WS-19 series.



It is interesting isn't it? I thought that we need stronger engine for an Carrier based Aircraft like J-35. So if they are confident that their medium trust Engine can be used as Carrier based Aircraft, then Chinese's Medium trust engine should be better than before / be good today.


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## vi-va

Brainsucker said:


> It is interesting isn't it? I thought that we need stronger engine for an Carrier based Aircraft like J-35. So if they are confident that their medium trust Engine can be used as Carrier based Aircraft, then Chinese's Medium trust engine should be better than before / be good today.



J-35 is designed for air supremacy, unlike F-35 designed for land attack. So J-35 is not as bulky as F-35. *Dragging force reduced*.
News pointed out that J-35 adopted new frame and skin technology, which significantly cut the empty weight. *Power-to-weight ratio* increased.
J-35 has a shallow weapon bay, deigned for air-air missile and precision land attack missiles. *Dragging force reduced*. 
EMALS is much smoother, which decreased *MAX acceleration*. Smaller max acceleration decreased the need of structure enforcement, also cut weight, increase *power-to-weight ratio*.

I am not saying ws-21 is weaker than US one, but Chinese approach decreased the need of superior of engine, just like J-20.

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## Shotgunner51

vi-va said:


> J-35 is designed for air supremacy, unlike F-35 designed for land attack. So J-35 is not as bulky as F-35. *Dragging force reduced*.
> News pointed out that J-35 adopted new frame and skin technology, which significantly cut the empty weight. *Power-to-weight ratio* increased.
> J-35 has a shallow weapon bay, deigned for air-air missile and precision land attack missiles. *Dragging force reduced*.
> EMALS is much smoother, which decreased *MAX acceleration*. Smaller max acceleration decreased the need of structure enforcement, also cut weight, increase *power-to-weight ratio*.
> 
> I am not saying ws-21 is weaker than US one, but Chinese approach decreased the need of superior of engine, just like J-20.


Good points!


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Ali_Baba said:


> And if the PLAN does order it - then there is a chance that it will win the heart of the PAF also - I am sure PAF is waiting for China to commit to it first before taking a look ... the memory of PLAAF backing out of the FC-1/JF-17 procurement still stings in the minds of the PAF.


The PAF would look at the status of the land-based version of the J-XY/J-35 -- i.e., J-21 or J-31.

I think the PLAAF could commit, but it'll be interesting to see how much urgency they put into it. IIRC the J-10B/C wasn't available for export until recently primarily because the PLAAF needed those fighters first. However, the technology gap between the J-10B/C and J-7 is way wider than that of the J-10B/C and early J-21/J-31 variants. Yes, the latter is technically a generation up, but the J-10B/C would still have many similar subsystems.

If the PLAAF says it needs a lot of J-21/J-31s quickly, and then other countries (e.g., Pakistan, Algeria, Egypt, etc) say they need J-21/J-31s soon, then I can see China actually investing in two big production lines. There's a chance the J-21/31 can become one of the most widely manufactured fighters in the world, second only to the F-35 IMHO.

However, I think the likelier scenario is the PLAAF buying J-21/J-31s in smaller increments (versus J-10B/C and J-20) so that there's enough room to support export orders. The export angle is super important because China will have a clear competitive edge in the market. The J-21/J-31 would literally be the only ITAR-free stealth fighter. It's simply one of those products that will attract a bigger customer base than strictly lightweight and medium-weight fighters like JF-17 and J-10, for which there are available alternatives.

Basically, I don't think the PLAAF will get in the way of AVIC getting the jump on Su-75 and TFX in those key markets. By the time the latter two are available, China would have had the chance to takeover most of the addressable market via the J-21/J-31 years ahead.

J-21/J-31 could be the Chinese industry's "F-16 moment" where they have a product most countries in a key market (i.e., ITAR-free) want. @Deino @JamD @kursed

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## Scorpiooo

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF would look at the status of the land-based version of the J-XY/J-35 -- i.e., J-21 or J-31.
> 
> I think the PLAAF could commit, but it'll be interesting to see how much urgency they put into it. IIRC the J-10B/C wasn't available for export until recently primarily because the PLAAF needed those fighters first. However, the technology gap between the J-10B/C and J-7 is way wider than that of the J-10B/C and early J-21/J-31 variants. Yes, the latter is technically a generation up, but the J-10B/C would still have many similar subsystems.
> 
> If the PLAAF says it needs a lot of J-21/J-31s quickly, and then other countries (e.g., Pakistan, Algeria, Egypt, etc) say they need J-21/J-31s soon, then I can see China actually investing in two big production lines. There's a chance the J-21/31 can become one of the most widely manufactured fighters in the world, second only to the F-35 IMHO.
> 
> However, I think the likelier scenario is the PLAAF buying J-21/J-31s in smaller increments (versus J-10B/C and J-20) so that there's enough room to support export orders. The export angle is super important because China will have a clear competitive edge in the market. The J-21/J-31 would literally be the only ITAR-free stealth fighter. It's simply one of those products that will attract a bigger customer base than strictly lightweight and medium-weight fighters like JF-17 and J-10, for which there are available alternatives.
> 
> Basically, I don't think the PLAAF will get in the way of AVIC getting the jump on Su-75 and TFX in those key markets. By the time the latter two are available, China would have had the chance to takeover most of the addressable market via the J-21/J-31 years ahead.
> 
> J-21/J-31 could be the Chinese industry's "F-16 moment" where they have a product most countries in a key market (i.e., ITAR-free) want. @Deino @JamD @kursed


Good point sir, but production variants efficiency and effectively still need to be proven to world before they think to invest in too much young jet


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## Shotgunner51

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF would look at the status of the land-based version of the J-XY/J-35 -- i.e., J-21 or J-31.
> 
> I think the PLAAF could commit, but it'll be interesting to see how much urgency they put into it. IIRC the J-10B/C wasn't available for export until recently primarily because the PLAAF needed those fighters first. However, the technology gap between the J-10B/C and J-7 is way wider than that of the J-10B/C and early J-21/J-31 variants. Yes, the latter is technically a generation up, but the J-10B/C would still have many similar subsystems.
> 
> If the PLAAF says it needs a lot of J-21/J-31s quickly, and then other countries (e.g., Pakistan, Algeria, Egypt, etc) say they need J-21/J-31s soon, then I can see China actually investing in two big production lines. There's a chance the J-21/31 can become one of the most widely manufactured fighters in the world, second only to the F-35 IMHO.
> 
> However, I think the likelier scenario is the PLAAF buying J-21/J-31s in smaller increments (versus J-10B/C and J-20) so that there's enough room to support export orders. The export angle is super important because China will have a clear competitive edge in the market. The J-21/J-31 would literally be the only ITAR-free stealth fighter. It's simply one of those products that will attract a bigger customer base than strictly lightweight and medium-weight fighters like JF-17 and J-10, for which there are available alternatives.
> 
> Basically, I don't think the PLAAF will get in the way of AVIC getting the jump on Su-75 and TFX in those key markets. By the time the latter two are available, China would have had the chance to takeover most of the addressable market via the J-21/J-31 years ahead.
> 
> J-21/J-31 could be the Chinese industry's "F-16 moment" where they have a product most countries in a key market (i.e., ITAR-free) want. @Deino @JamD @kursed


Agree mostly with you. J-XY could be a great weapon by itself though I'm more inclined to believe PLAAF can't put J-XY in front row seat of procurement any time soon. I suppose in PLAAF's tactical doctrine, MMRCA missions like forward basing/rapid response, low-altitude penetration through land terrain, light "bomb trucks" and such are already well served by J-10 series, which is easy to maintain/deploy (due to single-hi-thrust config), can go "beast mode" while still can be "stealthy enough" if some missions require so. There is no urgent need to add another MMRCA despite it being more stealthy, which is twin-medium-thrust config when PLAAF has almost vested the entire tactical fleet on hi-thrust for years.

I think J-XY has always been designed for PLAN doctrine from day one, while its land-based variant IF developed will be for exports only (or perhaps joint venture like JF-17, F-35, KFX/IFX, etc) in the immediate future. Land-based variants are by nature structurally simpler to build, and have better performance indicators, I believe SAC may customize it for exports after the original J-XY gets matured with PLAN.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Akasa said:


> Very interesting development.
> 
> If this bird manages to get fifth-generation avionics, genuine radar-absorbent material, airframe redesigns to reduce its RCS, and a new suite of AAMs, it might potentially come close to matching the performance of the *AMCA *in the far future.
> 
> Not a bad start for a country that was until very recently still mostly reliant on a geriatric fleet of MiG-21 derivatives and Q-5 Fantans.



I'm sure that it's better than a paper airplane.

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## GiantPanda

Shotgunner51 said:


> Agree mostly with you. J-XY could be a great weapon by itself though I'm more inclined to believe PLAAF can't put J-XY in front row seat of procurement any time soon. I suppose in PLAAF's tactical doctrine, MMRCA missions like forward basing/rapid response, low-altitude penetration through land terrain, light "bomb trucks" and such are already well served by J-10 series, which is easy to maintain/deploy (due to single-hi-thrust config), can go "beast mode" while still can be "stealthy enough" if some missions require so. There is no urgent need to add another MMRCA despite it being more stealthy, which is twin-medium-thrust config when PLAAF has almost vested the entire tactical fleet on hi-thrust for years.
> 
> I think J-XY has always been designed for PLAN doctrine from day one, while its land-based variant IF developed will be for exports only (or perhaps joint venture like JF-17, F-35, KFX/IFX, etc) in the immediate future. Land-based variants are by nature structurally simpler to build, and have better performance indicators, I believe SAC may customize it for exports after the original J-XY gets matured with PLAN.




PLAAF have been on the heavy engine (AL-31/WS-10) doctrine for two decades as you pointed out. Their modern force of J-10/J-11/J-16 and J-20 all use the same heavy engine whether in single or dual mode. 

Asking them to switch now to a twin-medium-engined fighter would change their doctrine and would incur costs to their plans. 

That said, they are supporting some non-standard engines now in the JH-7As and what is left over from the J-7 fleet. But those are expected to be retired over time. The replacement for those, especially the J-7s (since J-16 seems to be the heir to the JH-7A's role), will really be the only opportunity for the PLAAF to look at a different engine configuration. The J-35 really has to perform well in PLAN service for the PLAAF to consider it. Otherwise, the chances of a single-engine fighter based on the WS-15 entering service to replace the J-10 is probably greater than the J-35.

SAC knows the PLAAF's doctrine, they supplied most of their heavy fighters until the J-20 so they had always intended the FC-31 to go to the Navy or for exports.

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## TNT

GiantPanda said:


> Otherwise, the chances of a single-engine fighter based on the WS-15 entering service to replace the J-10 is probably greater than the J-35.



A very plausible scenario. A single engine 5th gen fighter might interest PAF more than J-35.


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## siegecrossbow

TNT said:


> A very plausible scenario. A single engine 5th gen fighter might interest PAF more than J-35.



Has Pakistan operated twin-engine types since J-6/Q-5?


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## TNT

siegecrossbow said:


> Has Pakistan operated twin-engine types since J-6/Q-5?



No they haven't, though the PAF did mention twin engined fighter for 5th gen.


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## kungfugymnast

The Eagle said:


> For J-35 or FC-31, I will still reserve my choice since missing of side-bays especially for side-winders/AAMs. With only one bay under belly, somehow limits the utilization under environment that warrants stealth capability to the fullest.



Without sidebay, it won't be multi-role fighter when carrying only internal payload like F-35


GiantPanda said:


> PLAAF have been on the heavy engine (AL-31/WS-10) doctrine for two decades as you pointed out. Their modern force of J-10/J-11/J-16 and J-20 all use the same heavy engine whether in single or dual mode.
> 
> Asking them to switch now to a twin-medium-engined fighter would change their doctrine and would incur costs to their plans.
> 
> That said, they are supporting some non-standard engines now in the JH-7As and what is left over from the J-7 fleet. But those are expected to be retired over time. The replacement for those, especially the J-7s (since J-16 seems to be the heir to the JH-7A's role), will really be the only opportunity for the PLAAF to look at a different engine configuration. The J-35 really has to perform well in PLAN service for the PLAAF to consider it. Otherwise, the chances of a single-engine fighter based on the WS-15 entering service to replace the J-10 is probably greater than the J-35.
> 
> SAC knows the PLAAF's doctrine, they supplied most of their heavy fighters until the J-20 so they had always intended the FC-31 to go to the Navy or for exports.



Agree, since China is large country, a medium stealth fighter is not favourable by PLAAF. FC-31 is for export market and the navalized FC-31 could end up being just testbed for future navalized stealth fighter which would be larger totally new aircraft. It is still not finalized therefore either way could happen. I would bet on larger new aircraft that will bear the J-35 designation while FC-31 being just testbed unless they needed a navalized fighter urgently


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## Shotgunner51

kungfugymnast said:


> Agree, since China is large country, a medium stealth fighter is not favourable by PLAAF. FC-31 is for export market and the navalized FC-31 could end up being just testbed for future navalized stealth fighter which would be larger totally new aircraft. It is still not finalized therefore either way could happen. I would bet on larger new aircraft that will bear the J-35 designation while FC-31 being just testbed unless they needed a navalized fighter urgently


Well almost like that. Let's say a medium stealth fighter is not "near-term priority" of PLAAF, especially a twin medium-thrust config. J-10C is doing MMRCA roles just fine in PLAAF doctrine, and it uses a WS-10C.

I don't think there's a "navalised FC-31" so to speak, because FC-31 from day one is a naval-centric project designed for CATOBAR. SAC knows exactly what they are going after i.e. PLAN order, so "land-based FC-31" never exist. The jets we have seen before, like 1.0, 2.0, were testbeds, and naturally testing started from somewhere close to SAC facility, on dry land, not on seas. The latest 3.0 is perhaps closer to prototype, if it is not prototype itself, as seen with obviously bigger fuselage which can pack more stuff. After FC-31 (or whatever new name) has started active combat duty on 003, only then SAC will further develop land-based variants on the same fuselage/frame for exports buyers, who I believe also look forward to seeing PLAN endorsement.

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## kungfugymnast

Shotgunner51 said:


> Well almost like that. Let's say a medium stealth fighter is not "near-term priority" of PLAAF, especially a twin medium-thrust config. J-10C is doing MMRCA roles just fine in PLAAF doctrine, and it uses a WS-10C.
> 
> I don't think there's a "navalised FC-31" so to speak, because FC-31 from day one is a naval-centric project designed for CATOBAR. SAC knows exactly what they are going after i.e. PLAN order, so "land-based FC-31" never exist. The jets we have seen before, like 1.0, 2.0, were testbeds, and naturally testing started from somewhere close to SAC facility, on dry land, not on seas. The latest 3.0 is perhaps closer to prototype, if it is not prototype itself, as seen with obviously bigger fuselage which can pack more stuff. After FC-31 (or whatever new name) has started active combat duty on 003, only then SAC will further develop land-based variants on the same fuselage/frame for exports buyers, who I believe also look forward to seeing PLAN endorsement.



Looking forward to it. Yes, relook at FC-31 first prototype had 2 wheeled front landing gear tells the goal is for carrier based from beginning. Due to time constraint, the FC-31 would likely enter service with PLAN for the Type 003. A larger navalized stealth fighter would only come later after that.


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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459447486364327943

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## Stealth

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF would look at the status of the land-based version of the J-XY/J-35 -- i.e., J-21 or J-31.
> 
> I think the PLAAF could commit, but it'll be interesting to see how much urgency they put into it. IIRC the J-10B/C wasn't available for export until recently primarily because the PLAAF needed those fighters first. However, the technology gap between the J-10B/C and J-7 is way wider than that of the J-10B/C and early J-21/J-31 variants. Yes, the latter is technically a generation up, but the J-10B/C would still have many similar subsystems.
> 
> If the PLAAF says it needs a lot of J-21/J-31s quickly, and then other countries (e.g., Pakistan, Algeria, Egypt, etc) say they need J-21/J-31s soon, then I can see China actually investing in two big production lines. There's a chance the J-21/31 can become one of the most widely manufactured fighters in the world, second only to the F-35 IMHO.
> 
> However, I think the likelier scenario is the PLAAF buying J-21/J-31s in smaller increments (versus J-10B/C and J-20) so that there's enough room to support export orders. The export angle is super important because China will have a clear competitive edge in the market. The J-21/J-31 would literally be the only ITAR-free stealth fighter. It's simply one of those products that will attract a bigger customer base than strictly lightweight and medium-weight fighters like JF-17 and J-10, for which there are available alternatives.
> 
> Basically, I don't think the PLAAF will get in the way of AVIC getting the jump on Su-75 and TFX in those key markets. By the time the latter two are available, China would have had the chance to takeover most of the addressable market via the J-21/J-31 years ahead.
> 
> J-21/J-31 could be the Chinese industry's "F-16 moment" where they have a product most countries in a key market (i.e., ITAR-free) want. @Deino @JamD @kursed




j-31/j-35 is our 5th Gen. The only issue is we have to wait till 2030.

With my very limited knowledge and understanding, 5th Gen and its maintenance are costly for countries like Pakistan. The biggest con or disadvantage of the 5th gen is, you are actually paying more for less capable fighters when it comes to A2A (payload only limited to bays with limited capacity). Second, 5th Gens are mostly for maintaining air superiority that includes breaching the enemy radar systems to go beyond far into enemy territory. 

For instance, PAF's objective is to reach Chennai or Kolkata, and for that, they have to enforce air superiority over the Indian skies. I don't believe we have such capability or intentions. However, in this scenario, we need a serious capability of air logistics including air refuellers to support such a level of operation.

PAF is designed to defend Pakistan's airspace. When it comes to PAF/IAF, the actual battle zone for air to air engagement is 150 - 300km of radius. Perhaps, going for 5th Gen is a risky bet. What do we achieve by getting stealth combat fighters? we have to think and define the role and objectives. Many things come into play and the most important is the "Cost".

PS: I said this many times before, as far as my knowledge, Project AZM is "J-31"


JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459447486364327943


 
i like the color

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Twin engine is good choice for carrier fighter. Single engine like F-35C is too risky.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Stealth said:


> j-31/j-35 is our 5th Gen. The only issue is we have to wait till 2030.
> 
> With my very limited knowledge and understanding, 5th Gen and its maintenance are costly for countries like Pakistan. The biggest con or disadvantage of the 5th gen is, you are actually paying more for less capable fighters when it comes to A2A (payload only limited to bays with limited capacity). Second, 5th Gens are mostly for maintaining air superiority that includes breaching the enemy radar systems to go beyond far into enemy territory.
> 
> For instance, PAF's objective is to reach Chennai or Kolkata, and for that, they have to enforce air superiority over the Indian skies. I don't believe we have such capability or intentions. However, in this scenario, we need a serious capability of air logistics including air refuellers to support such a level of operation.
> 
> PAF is designed to defend Pakistan's airspace. When it comes to PAF/IAF, the actual battle zone for air to air engagement is 150 - 300km of radius. Perhaps, going for 5th Gen is a risky bet. What do we achieve by getting stealth combat fighters? we have to think and define the role and objectives. Many things come into play and the most important is the "Cost".
> 
> PS: I said this many times before, as far as my knowledge, Project AZM is "J-31"
> 
> 
> i like the color


Bro based on what @JamD is saying, there's nothing serious within AZM. There's no J-35/J-21 or TFX. The PAF's actual NGFA plans are going to happen outside of AZM -- it's either J-35/J-21 or TFX.

That said, you're right about the high cost of FGFAs, but that's relative to large twin-engine aircraft. If you compare the FC-31 to the F-16, for example, the FC-31 can carry a heavier payload. The higher cost is irrelevant to the PAF because there literally is no alternative twin-engine fighter available. It can't acquire F-15s, F/A-18s, or Flankers. There's no trade-off by going for the FGFA because we don't have options. 

The only alternative I can think of is deep-strike UCAVs. However, that requires expertise in autonomous drones.

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## siegecrossbow

Stealth said:


> j-31/j-35 is our 5th Gen. The only issue is we have to wait till *2030*.
> 
> With my very limited knowledge and understanding, 5th Gen and its maintenance are costly for countries like Pakistan. The biggest con or disadvantage of the 5th gen is, you are actually paying more for less capable fighters when it comes to A2A (payload only limited to bays with limited capacity). Second, 5th Gens are mostly for maintaining air superiority that includes breaching the enemy radar systems to go beyond far into enemy territory.
> 
> For instance, PAF's objective is to reach Chennai or Kolkata, and for that, they have to enforce air superiority over the Indian skies. I don't believe we have such capability or intentions. However, in this scenario, we need a serious capability of air logistics including air refuellers to support such a level of operation.
> 
> PAF is designed to defend Pakistan's airspace. When it comes to PAF/IAF, the actual battle zone for air to air engagement is 150 - 300km of radius. Perhaps, going for 5th Gen is a risky bet. What do we achieve by getting stealth combat fighters? we have to think and define the role and objectives. Many things come into play and the most important is the "Cost".
> 
> PS: I said this many times before, as far as my knowledge, Project AZM is "J-31"
> 
> 
> i like the color



Why would that be an issue? I don’t see any other country in South Asia acquiring fifth gen by that date.


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## Stealth

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Bro based on what @JamD is saying, there's nothing serious within AZM. There's no J-35/J-21 or TFX. The PAF's actual NGFA plans are going to happen outside of AZM -- it's either J-35/J-21 or TFX.
> 
> That said, you're right about the high cost of FGFAs, but that's relative to large twin-engine aircraft. If you compare the FC-31 to the F-16, for example, the FC-31 can carry a heavier payload. The higher cost is irrelevant to the PAF because there literally is no alternative twin-engine fighter available. It can't acquire F-15s, F/A-18s, or Flankers. There's no trade-off by going for the FGFA because we don't have options.
> 
> The only alternative I can think of is deep-strike UCAVs. However, that requires expertise in autonomous drones.



I meant to say, there is nothing like AZM, we don't have any expertise or capability to build such a thing. I agree with you absolutely if we ever go for 5th, that will be J-31 or any Chinese platform.


siegecrossbow said:


> Why would that be an issue? I don’t see any other country in South Asia acquiring fifth gen by that date.



Actually, It's all about maintaining the balance of power. technically nothing to do with the time frame. We can't match with Indian in numbers however by establishing a strong 5th gen force (based on a few squadrons of 5hth gen) would be an edge but again there are many if and buts.


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## siegecrossbow

Stealth said:


> I meant to say, there is nothing like AZM, we don't have any expertise or capability to build such a thing. What I tried to say, if we ever go for 5th, that will be J-31 or any Chinese platform.
> 
> 
> Actually, It's all about maintaining the balance of power. technically nothing to do with the time frame. We can't match with Indian in numbers however by establishing a strong 5th gen force (based on a few squadrons of 5hth gen) would be an edge but again there are many if and buts.



If India only has Pakistan to contend with then I could see that as cause for concern. But that is definitely not the case.


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## Deino

As it seems, the first clear image of the SAC next generation carrierborne multirole fighter J-35 (?) on the ground was leaked.

(Image via @daikibokougeki)

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## Akasa

Deino said:


> As it seems, the first clear image of the SAC next generation carrierborne multirole fighter J-35 (?) on the ground was leaked.
> 
> (Image via @daikibokougeki)
> 
> View attachment 797513
> 
> 
> View attachment 797514



Somewhere in Texas, F-35 engineers are turning in their beds and cursing their computer security experts with every breath. A few keystrokes by some skilled PLASSF operator certainly gave China's defense aviation industry a hell of a leg up.

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> As it seems, the first clear image of the SAC next generation carrierborne multirole fighter J-35 (?) on the ground was leaked.
> 
> (Image via @daikibokougeki)
> 
> View attachment 797513
> 
> 
> View attachment 797514


Wondering where is weapon bay, seems shorter weapon bay than J-20. Not a good sign


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## siegecrossbow

vi-va said:


> Wondering where is weapon bay, seems shorter weapon bay than J-20. Not a good sign



It's the same size. The engine nozzles are also jagged so I think they are probably using domestic engines.

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## lcloo

vi-va said:


> Wondering where is weapon bay, seems shorter weapon bay than J-20. Not a good sign


It can't have a shorter weapon bay than that of J20 because it has to accomodate PL10 and PL15, unless there is another set of smaller advance SRAAM and LRAAM with comparable range, which is very unlikely.

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> As it seems, the first clear image of the SAC next generation carrierborne multirole fighter J-35 (?) on the ground was leaked.
> 
> (Image via @daikibokougeki)
> 
> View attachment 797513
> 
> 
> View attachment 797514


If you compare the front landing gear, hard to believe both have same size of weapon bay.


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## lcloo

vi-va said:


> If you compare the front landing gear, hard to believe both have same size of weapon bay.
> View attachment 797572
> 
> 
> View attachment 797573


Optical visualisation is always deceptive, just like when the J20 first appeared, how so many western experts argued that it is too large and too long to be air superiority fighter jet, simply based on their visual perception.

If J35's weapon bay cannot take in PL15, then there is a huge mistake, a fatal mistake that will kill all J35 pilots in their aerial engagements in BVR fights. I don't think China is that stupid.

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## Stealth



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## lcloo

lcloo said:


> Optical visualisation is always deceptive, just like when the J20 first appeared, how so many western experts argued that it is too large and too long to be air superiority fighter jet, simply based on their visual perception.
> 
> If J35's weapon bay cannot take in PL15, then there is a huge mistake, a fatal mistake that will kill all J35 pilots in their aerial engagements in BVR fights. I don't think China is that stupid.


Just to reconfirm the size of weapon bay for both J20 and J35 (FC-31 ver 2.0).

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## johncliu88

From another angle, if J-35 can't take PL-15, that means China may have a shorter version of mid range missile available. The new missile may not have as long range as PL-15 but should be good enough to achieve, let's say, 180KM, which is good enough for most of the air battles.


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## IblinI

A new bvr a2a missile is there, many big shrimps has mentioned about it.


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## vi-va

lcloo said:


> Just to reconfirm the size of weapon bay for both J20 and J35 (FC-31 ver 2.0).
> 
> View attachment 797633


I think the picture below is misleading. the landing gear position is completely wrong.


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## siegecrossbow

vi-va said:


> I think the picture below is misleading. the landing gear position is completely wrong.
> View attachment 797672
> 
> View attachment 797671



How so?


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## vi-va

siegecrossbow said:


> How so?


Clear now?


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## siegecrossbow

vi-va said:


> Clear now?
> View attachment 797773



The landing gears flip backwards when extended. This is true for both J-20 and J-35. Notice the bump on the LERX? That’s where the wheel is housed after landing gear is retracted.


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## vi-va

siegecrossbow said:


> The landing gears flip backwards when extended. This is true for both J-20 and J-35. Notice the bump on the LERX? That’s where the wheel is housed after landing gear is retracted.


I have proved that the picture of the comparison of J-20 and J-35 is misleading. The proportion is completely wrong.

It may still have the same side of weapon bay, we will know when we see the belly one day.


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## lcloo

vi-va said:


> I have proved that the picture of the comparison of J-20 and J-35 is misleading. The proportion is completely wrong.
> 
> It may still have the same side of weapon bay, we will know when we see the belly one day.


Belly of FC-31 Ver 1.0 and ver 2.0, would J35's belly weapon bay be very different? *The key point of this discussion is the size of weapon bay which you showed your doubt*, not the position of the landing gear on a blur photo of J35. And since J35 is slightly bigger than FC-31 ver 1.0 and 2.0 why would they reduced the size of the weapon bay?

Why are you doubting the designer of J35? They are tasked to improve the design of J35 over than of FC-31, so extremely unlikely that the weapon bay could be smaller than that of FC-31.

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## vi-va

lcloo said:


> Belly of FC-31 Ver 1.0 and ver 2.0, would J35's belly weapon bay be very different? *The key point of this discussion is the size of weapon bay which you showed your doubt*, not the position of the landing gear on a blur photo of J35. And since J35 is slightly bigger than FC-31 ver 1.0 and 2.0 why would they reduced the size of the weapon bay?
> 
> Why are you doubting the designer of J35? They are tasked to improve the design of J35 over than of FC-31, so extremely unlikely that the weapon bay could be smaller than that of FC-31.
> 
> View attachment 797906
> 
> 
> View attachment 797907
> View attachment 797909
> 
> View attachment 797910


Thanks for the pictures. 

Because the front landing gear puzzles me. It seems the front landing gear takes too much room.


----------



## johncliu88

vi-va said:


> Thanks for the pictures.
> 
> Because the front landing gear puzzles me. It seems the front landing gear takes too much room.


For the CAT capable version, the front gear has more stuff than standard land based gear, and also it is bigger and stronger as well.


----------



## ozranger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466179318258683907

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## Ali_Baba

China's New Carrier-Capable Stealth Fighter's Canopy Is Its Most Intriguing Feature


The new navalized derivative of the Shenyang FC-31 fighter has something oddly in common with the F-35B.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## Scorpiooo

Deino said:


> As it seems, the first clear image of the SAC next generation carrierborne multirole fighter J-35 (?) on the ground was leaked.
> 
> (Image via @daikibokougeki)
> 
> View attachment 797513
> 
> 
> View attachment 797514


@Deino whats the major differences you can preduct from J31 in this J35 other then naval variant


----------



## Deino

Even if very blurry, it is anyway an not previously posted image of the J-35 prototype. Quite interesting, some say this one was spotted at the PLAN Test & Training facility at Huangdicun … and some say there are even already two J-35s - maybe mock ups - there.

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## python-000

Deino said:


> Even if very blurry, it is anyway an not previously posted image of the J-35 prototype. Quite interesting, some say this one was spotted at the PLAN Test & Training facility at Huangdicun … and some say there are even already two J-35s - maybe mock ups - there.
> 
> View attachment 805159


Hope Pakistan & China also go for joint production of these J-35s...


----------



## Ali_Baba

python-000 said:


> Hope Pakistan & China also go for joint production of these J-35s...



Best for China to mature and debug them debug them first  before considering them.

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## python-000

Ali_Baba said:


> Best for China to mature and debug them debug them first  before considering them.


I think these J-35 are already become quite mature...


----------



## ziaulislam

10 years and no serial production
Shows things can be slow if no backing

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## Shotgunner51

ziaulislam said:


> 10 years and no serial production
> Shows things can be slow if no backing


True in a general sense. However do note FC-31 is a SAC project code, the end product coming out of it will be J-XY (or perhaps J-35), it's moving at a pace that commensurate with its first and only intended app aka naval jet for 003.


----------



## Shotgunner51

Some latest fan-made CGs (see watermark for origin)

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## Deino

Shotgunner51 said:


> Some latest fan-made CGs (see watermark for origin)
> 
> View attachment 807071
> View attachment 807072
> View attachment 807073
> View attachment 807074




And other ones ... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1479530745639100418

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## Scorpiooo

Ao whats the real timeline for j35 official productions


----------



## Akasa

A leaked image of what appears to be a front-opening canopy. Possibly that of the J-XY.

From: https://weibo.com/7340233926/LcRybB5bh


----------



## vi-va

Akasa said:


> A leaked image of what appears to be a front-opening canopy. Possibly that of the J-XY.
> 
> From: https://weibo.com/7340233926/LcRybB5bh
> 
> View attachment 812029

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## FuturePAF

New Assembly plant in Shenyang to assemble the J-35. Does anything in the picture of this plant indicate that SAC has won the contract to supply the PLAN with J-35 fighters?

Also, at the end of the video it indicates China just (end of 2021) completed an assembly plant for the J-20, so production. Numbers maybe ramping up very soon.


----------



## Stealth

vi-va said:


> View attachment 812059


Similar to F22 Raptor


----------



## rcrmj

vi-va said:


> I have proved that the picture of the comparison of J-20 and J-35 is misleading. The proportion is completely wrong.
> 
> It may still have the same side of weapon bay, we will know when we see the belly one day.


J35 does not have side weapon bays, and its main weapon bay has the same size that of the J-20, if not bigger``````end of discussion

J-20 and J-35 is going to station same weapon systems in their weapon bays, and due to the nature of it\s playground, J-35 will have to carry more types air-to-surface weapons, some of them are not as small and slim as PL-12/15, even though they were specially designed for stealth fighter's confined weapon bays.


----------



## rcrmj

domestic F-35 has integrated PL-10 into its weapon bay, thanks to its new fire and lock capability. However, the export version of F-35 does not have such capability for the time being, maybe they will incorporate it later? dont know yet`````

people saying that this 31 project has been going on for too long, and yet without considerable amount of testing fighters been seen, so loads people speculate on this project.

however, what I have to say is that, this plane if by far the most technologically integrated, reliable, advanced, efficient and complex than any of other projects in China.


----------



## rcrmj

18m+/- in length, 28t+/- in maximum take-off weights (will be more when WS-19 is ready), 1000 KM+ combat radius (stealth mode), optical sensor fusion technology can detect and track F-22 sized target at the distance of 1XX km, latest AESA radar and EW suite was a WoW to those top bosses who had introduced



FuturePAF said:


> New Assembly plant in Shenyang to assemble the J-35. Does anything in the picture of this plant indicate that SAC has won the contract to supply the PLAN with J-35 fighters?
> 
> Also, at the end of the video it indicates China just (end of 2021) completed an assembly plant for the J-20, so production. Numbers maybe ramping up very soon.


J-20 was never a contender of China's carrier based fighter````` this wishful thinking is rather amusing to say the least

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## Shotgunner51

Credit: 燃烧的哈尔科夫

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## siegecrossbow

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 828450
> 
> Credit: 燃烧的哈尔科夫

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## Rafi

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 828450
> 
> Credit: 燃烧的哈尔科夫



She a beaut, no doubt ♥️

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## SD 10

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 828450
> 
> Credit: 燃烧的哈尔科夫


Thats thin


----------



## Shotgunner51

siegecrossbow said:


> View attachment 828455


Yes, that's group photo of 624 Institute (涡轮院; GTRE) from early 2019 when WS-19 prototype first got test verified, I guess by now WS-19 should be ready for J-35 serial production.

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## siegecrossbow

Shotgunner51 said:


> Yes, that's from early 2019 when WS-19 prototype first got test verified, so WS-19 should be ready for J-35 serial production.



If that's the case then this is even bigger news than I expected. WS-19 progress is further ahead than WS-15.

This is why Pakistan shouldn't fear engine issue for JF-17.

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## 帅的一匹

It’s said that J35 already has its first customer

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## SD 10

帅的一匹 said:


> It’s said that J35 already has its first customer


who will that be?


----------



## Luosifen

Logically if the J-35 is ready to go the PLAN would be the first takers as they will be used aboard the type 003 and future 004 carriers.

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## jaybird

SD 10 said:


> who will that be?


Maybe ask Sheikh Rasheed?😆

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## alimobin memon

帅的一匹 said:


> It’s said that J35 already has its first customer


Pakistan. If not then whoever gets first is actually because its not upto Pakistan requirements and requires other upgrades but eventually will arrive to Pakistan. J20 too, after j10c I am confident for that too.


----------



## 帅的一匹

alimobin memon said:


> Pakistan. If not then whoever gets first is actually because its not upto Pakistan requirements and requires other upgrades but eventually will arrive to Pakistan. J20 too, after j10c I am confident for that too.


Maybe it’s for PLAN, there is no plan to sell stealthy fighter to Pakistan yet.

We have to fulfill domestic need at first.


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## alimobin memon

帅的一匹 said:


> Maybe it’s for PLAN, there is no plan to sell stealthy fighter to Pakistan yet.
> 
> We have to fulfill domestic need at first.


Ofcourse first domestic then friendly nations

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## Luosifen

FC-31 is approved for export with option of local assembly, so Pakistan can acquire it if they want. They will probably wait to see how well it performs in PLA service before making a decision though (besides the matter of funding and focusing on AZM/Turkish JV).

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## 帅的一匹

alimobin memon said:


> Ofcourse first domestic then friendly nations


Since it’s a joint venture between CAC and SAC, I think Pakistan Air Force will be very interested to know the detail of it.

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## Stealth

帅的一匹 said:


> It’s said that J35 already has its first customer



who who who who

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## IblinI

Do not forget its airforce version, we are likely going to see it in the sky this year or next.

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## 帅的一匹

Stealth said:


> who who who who


Maybe Saud Arabia, can’t exclude UAE either.


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## 帅的一匹

jaybird said:


> Maybe ask Sheikh Rasheed?😆


If sheikh Rasheed isn’t speaking, J35 is not coming.

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## SD 10

IblinI said:


> Do not forget its airforce version, we are likely going to see it in the sky this year or next.


there is an airforce version? i though this jet was for navy?


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## IblinI

SD 10 said:


> there is an airforce version? i though this jet was for navy?


it is about one year behind the navy's version in the schedule.

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## SD 10

IblinI said:


> it is about one year behind the navy's version in the schedule.


Its the first time I heard of it. Looking forward to seeing it!

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## siegecrossbow

The real question is if the Air Force version also has the canopy change.

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## GiantPanda

帅的一匹 said:


> It’s said that J35 already has its first customer



PLANAF would obviously be the first customer. Is the rumor about a foreign customer?

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## Wergeland

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 828450
> 
> Credit: 燃烧的哈尔科夫



Beautiful bird.
Looks like the hump on its back gotten bigger. Maybe for better aerodynamics or more fuel storage?
Also tail is fully rotating flaps.

This bird would look stunning with 2D exhaust nozzles. Any idea if China is working on 2D vectoring tech?

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## siegecrossbow

Wergeland said:


> Beautiful bird.
> Looks like the* hump on its back gotten bigger*. Maybe for better aerodynamics or more fuel storage?
> Also tail is fully rotating flaps.
> 
> This bird would look stunning with 2D exhaust nozzles. Any idea if China is working on 2D vectoring tech?



Primary reason is reduction of drag at transsonic speed, as counterintuitive as it seems at first glance. There is a paper on it.

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## 帅的一匹

Wergeland said:


> Beautiful bird.
> Looks like the hump on its back gotten bigger. Maybe for better aerodynamics or more fuel storage?
> Also tail is fully rotating flaps.
> 
> This bird would look stunning with 2D exhaust nozzles. Any idea if China is working on 2D vectoring tech?


Have you noticed the WS19 engine

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## johncliu88

Just heard that Saudi has some interest on this bird since there will be no limitation for operation once it is sold to any end customer, not like the US F-35s, every time when it needs to take off, the end customer (like South Korea) needs to apply for a passcode to turn on the control system on plane.


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## FuturePAF

siegecrossbow said:


> View attachment 828455


Any translation of the text below the photo? Does it indicate a max thrust of 124 kn?

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## applesauce

FuturePAF said:


> Any translation of the text below the photo? Does it indicate a max thrust of 124 kn?



lol no. china doesnt release these kinds of numbers. we don't even know the numbers for the ws-10 which is in Pakistani j-10

the 124 is the number of people on the team that is under 35  years old.

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## jaybird

FuturePAF said:


> Any translation of the text below the photo? Does it indicate a max thrust of 124 kn?


The text have nothing to do with technical data, it meant total number of people in this turbofan engine development team consist of 193 personnel, out of that 124 of them are under the age of 35 years old. (65%)

It took the team only 1 year to complete the engine design, and another half a year for the first engine verification test, achieving a breakthrough in domestic engine test efficiency and success rate. The engine manufacturing cycle has been shorten by 2/3 of the time.

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## 帅的一匹

FuturePAF said:


> Any translation of the text below the photo? Does it indicate a max thrust of 124 kn?


The TRW ration is around 11, the weight of the engine is around 1 ton. JF17 will have new engine after WS19 mass produced.
If AZM choose to be an dual engine design, it will be a multi-role fighter jets.

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## FuturePAF

帅的一匹 said:


> The TRW ration is around 11, the weight of the engine is around 1 ton.


Would love to see this engine in a future block of the JF-17.


----------



## 帅的一匹

WS 15 or WS19, a happiness trouble for Pakistan Air Force.

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## FuturePAF

帅的一匹 said:


> WS 15 or WS19, a happiness trouble for Pakistan Air Force.


Just thinking about a J-10 with a WS-15 engine opens up so many possibilities for long term growth in such a relatively modest platform. Supported by WS-19 equipped JF-17 that can hold their own against any 4/4.5 Gen platform operated by the IAF.

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## 帅的一匹

FuturePAF said:


> Just thinking about a J-10 with a WS-15 engine opens up so many possibilities for long term growth in such a relatively modest platform. Supported by WS-19 equipped JF-17 that can hold their own against any 4/4.5 Gen platform operated by the IAF.


I really feel proud of our progression in aeroengine developments. JF17 will sell to customers without any obstacle.

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## siegecrossbow

FuturePAF said:


> Any translation of the text below the photo? Does it indicate a max thrust of 124 kn?



It is just fluff. Only important detail is that development time has been shortened by 2/3.

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## Luosifen

Until the USA expands CAATSA to Chinese arms manufacturers as they are likely to do in the future 


帅的一匹 said:


> I really feel proud of our progression in aeroengine developments. JF17 will sell to customers without any obstacle.


Though should that occur, China wouldn't just sit back and let such a move go unanswered


----------



## 帅的一匹

Luosifen said:


> Until the USA expands CAATSA to Chinese arms manufacturers as they are likely to do in the future
> 
> Though should that occur, China wouldn't just sit back and let such a move go unanswered


怕蝲蝲蛄还不种田了

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## lcloo

The evolution from
FC-31 demostrator #31001 to
J31 proto-type, and
J35 #35001 proto-type.

Edit: Correction, as deino wrote, J35 prototype is #350001.

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## Stealth

lcloo said:


> The evolution from
> FC-31 demostrator #31001 to
> J31 proto-type, and
> J35 #35001 proto-type.
> 
> View attachment 828815



Middle one canopy


----------



## ahtan_china



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## ahtan_china

*Size*

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## Deino

帅的一匹 said:


> Have you noticed the WS19 engine




But is it really the WS-19 already? 

I find it most surprising that an engine for which development started later than the WS-15 is already more mature - at least to be used in such a precious prototype - before the WS-15 is mature.

As such and since we never got a confirmation for that blurry image to be the WS-19, I‘m more inclined to say it is the rumoured updated and modified WS-13 with a new nozzle, that is sometimes feferred to as the WS-21, than already the WS-19 itself.



lcloo said:


> The evolution from
> FC-31 demostrator #31001 to
> J31 proto-type, and
> J35 #35001 proto-type.
> 
> View attachment 828815


Impressive evolution

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## Deino

Looks more like 350001 and not 35001?!

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## Wergeland

帅的一匹 said:


> Have you noticed the WS19 engine



Well observed. Indeed it looks like a new engine.

Im no expert on engines. But from what i can see, the engine nozzles are serrated for stealth and it seems to lack the silver-metallic ring that characterize the WS-10 engine.

Or may be the metallic ring is there and the greenish airframe is hidden behind vertical tails.


----------



## Deino

Wergeland said:


> Well observed. Indeed it looks like a new engine.
> 
> Im no expert on engines. But from what i can see, the engine nozzles are serrated for stealth and it seems to lack the silver-metallic ring that characterize the WS-10 engine.
> 
> Or may be the metallic ring is there and the greenish airframe is hidden behind vertical tails.




Again, please consider this not as a proof for the WS-19...









J-XY - maybe J-35 - next generation carrier-borne fighter


Until the USA expands CAATSA to Chinese arms manufacturers as they are likely to do in the future :rolleyes: I really feel proud of our progression in aeroengine developments. JF17 will sell to customers without any obstacle. Though should that occur, China wouldn't just sit back and let such...



defence.pk


----------



## Wergeland

ahtan_china said:


> *Size*
> 
> View attachment 828830
> View attachment 828831
> View attachment 828832



J-31 and F-22 is surprisingly almost same size. 
But J-31 has no sidebays. Why?

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## lcloo

Wergeland said:


> J-31 and F-22 is surprisingly almost same size.
> But J-31 has no sidebays. Why?


The comparison diagrams are not accurtae. J-31 should be smaller than F-22.

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## siegecrossbow

Luosifen said:


> Until the USA expands CAATSA to Chinese arms manufacturers as they are likely to do in the future
> 
> Though should that occur, China wouldn't just sit back and let such a move go unanswered



Unlike Russia, China doesn't depend on weapons export financially.

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## Deino

🐣


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515603385201967104

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## PakAlp

It has been 11 years since the first J31 flew. The progress has been very slow, China only has 3 prototypes. Not sure the real reason for the delay?


----------



## Deino

Sorry guys … 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515632463116185602


----------



## GiantPanda

PakAlp said:


> It has been 11 years since the first J31 flew. The progress has been very slow, China only has 3 prototypes. Not sure the real reason for the delay?



Slow? The PLA Navy only selected the J-35 two years ago and a prototype is already flying! 

You are confusing the privately funded FC-31 by SAC that flew 13 years ago. 

Very few countries has a stealth fighter project already on hand when the armed forces decided to get a second one.

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## LKJ86

Via @航空EXIA from Weibo

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## FuturePAF

ahtan_china said:


> *Size*
> 
> View attachment 828830
> View attachment 828831
> View attachment 828832


If it’s nearly the same size as the F-22, any indication it (or a follow on version) will be redesigned to use the WS-15? Especially in the A2A role, it would be much better engine.


----------



## Wergeland

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 836983
> 
> Via @航空EXIA from Weibo



Painted ones. 
Are they still in prototype testing stage, or set for mass production?


----------



## siegecrossbow

Wergeland said:


> Painted ones.
> Are they still in prototype testing stage, or set for mass production?



Prototype testing, but they are already training for carrier ops.

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## Deino

siegecrossbow said:


> Prototype testing, but they are already training for carrier ops.





Wergeland said:


> Painted ones.
> Are they still in prototype testing stage, or set for mass production?




In fact I'm still sceptical ... I have seen the first such images showing two "whatever" in November/December and I cannot think that we've missed the maiden flight of two more prototypes + their transfer to the naval test & training base at Huaingdicun.


----------



## python-000

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 836983
> 
> Via @航空EXIA from Weibo


It seems like China quitly starts J-35 production...


----------



## Deino

python-000 said:


> It seems like China quitly starts J-35 production...




Come on !! It seeems some over overenthusiastic by these images but in fact NOTHING hints towards them being real flying prototypes!

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## Scorpiooo

帅的一匹 said:


> It’s said that J35 already has its first customer


Which one ?


----------



## chinasun

The Chinese aircraft carrier 003 is on trial in the second half of this year. J35 needs to speed up development to catch up with the trial time of the 003 aircraft carrier.


----------



## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> In fact I'm still sceptical ... I have seen the first such images showing two "whatever" in November/December and I cannot think that we've missed the maiden flight of two more prototypes + their transfer to the naval test & training base at Huaingdicun.



You'd be surprised. We don't have the flight footage video of the J-35 prototype either, but we know it has flown.

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## Deino

It’s grey now

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## Deino

And another one…

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## _NOBODY_

Deino said:


> And another one…
> 
> View attachment 846517


Do you see any visible differences on this prototype versus the yellow one we saw a while ago?


----------



## Deino

_NOBODY_ said:


> Do you see any visible differences on this prototype versus the yellow one we saw a while ago?




several ... or do you confuse it with the green one?


----------



## _NOBODY_

Deino said:


> several ... or do you confuse it with the green one?


My apologies, I meant the green one instead of the yellow one.


----------



## Deino

_NOBODY_ said:


> My apologies, I meant the green one instead of the yellow one.




No problem ... but I don't think so

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## Ali_Baba

Deino said:


> And another one…
> 
> View attachment 846517



Nice - i am looking forward to seeing the unveiling of the airforce version and it enter PLAAF service..

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## Brainsucker

SD 10 said:


> there is an airforce version? i though this jet was for navy?


But PLAAF has already has J-20, aren't they?

Edit : Or maybe they make land based version to replace JH-7? The problem is what kind of role that the J-35 will take? Multi role? A to A role? or strike role?

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## vi-va

Brainsucker said:


> But PLAAF has already has J-20, aren't they?


J-35 is new design compared with J-20. Designed for navy.

In next generation fighter, maneuverability has lower priority than before, so

Lower G, maybe 7 is enough.
Higher max take off weight/empty weight ratio.
Smaller airframe, suitable for aircraft carrier
Navy need easier maintenance on carrier
Antirust
New airframe technology, more composite material and aluminum lithium alloy
New technology, less parts, all-in-one body

Also, China dislike monopoly, competition is good for long run.

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## SD 10

Brainsucker said:


> But PLAAF has already has J-20, aren't they?
> 
> Edit : Or maybe they make land based version to replace JH-7? The problem is what kind of role that the J-35 will take? Multi role? A to A role? or strike role?


it looks more of a multirole kind of jet ....... plus china has refined it so much i think it will be a very potent air to air fighter!

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## PakAlp

According to this. China will announce naval 5th generation fighter in the coming year.

"Moreover, Sun Cong, chief designer of the FC-31 (aka J-31), deployed on carriers—an F-35 lookalike—told Global Times that “people will … see good news on the next-generation aircraft carrier-based fighter jet” in the coming year."









J-20 Mighty Dragon production likely to ramp up as China aims to have more stealth fighters than US by 2025 - The Aviation Geek Club


J-20 Mighty Dragon production likely to ramp up as China aims to have more stealth fighters than US by 2025




theaviationgeekclub.com


----------



## kungfugymnast

SD 10 said:


> it looks more of a multirole kind of jet ....... plus china has refined it so much i think it will be a very potent air to air fighter!



If the J-35 doesn't have sidebay, it will not be multi-role fighter. China missiles are wider and less compact compared to US counterpart that builds more smaller diameter or foldable fins missiles & bombs to squeeze into the F-22 and F-35 smaller internal bays. The F-22 is solely air to air while F-35 is mainly for air to air or air to ground, only either 1. US won't risk losing stealth by allowing F-35 to carry external payload during actual war.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> If the J-35 doesn't have sidebay, it will not be multi-role fighter. China missiles are wider and less compact compared to US counterpart that builds more smaller diameter or foldable fins missiles & bombs to squeeze into the F-22 and F-35 smaller internal bays. The F-22 is solely air to air while F-35 is mainly for air to air or air to ground, only either 1. US won't risk losing stealth by allowing F-35 to carry external payload during actual war.




Come on ... the F-35 also has no side-bays but is surely more a multirole type than any other current fighter. As such it may limit its weapons load but it in no way excludes it from being multirole.

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## chinasun

Invisible spray paint J35, not far from equipping the army.

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## S10

I'm not liking the new cockpit design. There is not enough visibility for the pilot in the rear aspect.


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## GiantPanda

S10 said:


> I'm not liking the new cockpit design. There is not enough visibility for the pilot in the rear aspect.



It is a bubble canopy that flares out to the sides. The only area blocked is directly behind the pilot's head. The view is fine unless the pilot likes cranking his neck backwards 180 degrees like an owl to look directly behind him.

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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> Come on ... the F-35 also has no side-bays but is surely more a multirole type than any other current fighter. As such it may limit its weapons load but it in no way excludes it from being multirole.



The F-35 on full internal payload wasn't considered multi-role fighter that US military demonstration showed more F-35s required to carry out air strikes with those on air to ground role carrying only air to ground payload internally while those flying escort carry all AMRAAM internally. US has no problem outnumbering its enemies therefore they are fine with this. After introduction of compact foldable fins AIM-120C7, an F-35 could carry 6x AIM-120C7 in center internal bay like F-22. The J-20A large internal bay can't carry more than 4x PL-15, expect the same with J-35 until China could build compact missiles & bombs



GiantPanda said:


> It is a bubble canopy that flares out to the sides. The only area blocked is directly behind the pilot's head. The view is fine unless the pilot likes cranking his neck backwards 180 degrees like an owl to look directly behind him.
> 
> View attachment 847156


If J-35 fitted with rear camera, then the pilot doesn't have to tilt head


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## vi-va

S10 said:


> I'm not liking the new cockpit design. There is not enough visibility for the pilot in the rear aspect.


not important any more, no need at all, actually.

F-35 use the same design, the helmet provide 360° view. Can see though the frame.

naked eye vision is not important now, people with eyeglass can fly now.

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## Trailer23

Any footage of this Aircraft?

I'm not certain, but was this particular jet offered for Export.

An Air Force variant would be worth it.


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## Deino

Trailer23 said:


> Any footage of this Aircraft?
> 
> I'm not certain, but was this particular jet offered for Export.
> 
> An Air Force variant would be worth it.




In fact, my feeling tells me that now as the J-35 it is a PLAN priority project and any export customised variant will come only long after the J-35 is in PLAN service and eventually in PLAAF service too.

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## Trailer23

Deino said:


> In fact, my feeling tells me that now as the J-35 it is a PLAN priority project and any export customised variant will come only long after the J-35 is in PLAN service and eventually in PLAAF service too.


From my understanding, the jet has made a number of modifications since it was 1st revealed/flew.

A number of Test Flights have also taken place. Are they now looking to improve it further, before officially putting it out for mass production?


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## Deino

J-35 + J-16 acting as its chase plane

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## python-000

Deino said:


> J-35 + J-16 acting as its chase plane
> 
> View attachment 854248


Wow this is great to see J-35 progress to move ahead hope fully China will start its production Soon...

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## siegecrossbow



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## luciferdd

From weibo@Oneninety

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## Deino

Allegedly a second J-35 prototype numbered '350003' has been spotted. Even if this is only a rough sketch, the image it is based on is allegedly real. 

(Image via @塔什蒙贡星系 from Weibo)


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## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> Allegedly a second J-35 prototype numbered '350003' has been spotted. Even if this is only a rough sketch, the image it is based on is allegedly real.
> 
> (Image via @塔什蒙贡星系 from Weibo)
> 
> View attachment 863798

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

siegecrossbow said:


> View attachment 864135


Pakistan: alright, what (or who) do we need to mortgage to get a credit line for this?
Argentina: we second Pakistan's question
Algeria: Russia who?
Iraq: we second Algeria
Egypt: gotta add that to our collection
Qatar: we shall add this to our collection too
Saudi: us three
Azerbaijan: die Armenia die
Bangladesh: we'll add this to Vision 2040
Germany: yo is East Germany still around?
Turkey: don't worry fam (Germany), our Navy needs a new fighter

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## Luosifen

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Pakistan: alright, what (or who) do we need to mortgage to get a credit line for this?


How many donkeys does Pakistan have available for export?

In all seriousness, I don't think this is the version that will be made available for export market though.


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## johncliu88

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Pakistan: alright, what (or who) do we need to mortgage to get a credit line for this?
> Argentina: we second Pakistan's question
> Algeria: Russia who?
> Iraq: we second Algeria
> Egypt: gotta add that to our collection
> Qatar: we shall add this to our collection too
> Saudi: us three
> Azerbaijan: die Armenia die
> Bangladesh: we'll add this to Vision 2040
> Germany: yo is East Germany still around?
> Turkey: don't worry fam (Germany), our Navy needs a new fighter


And Indian: WTF, Pak is getting this? Our ...... Where?


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## siegecrossbow

Luosifen said:


> How many donkeys does Pakistan have available for export?
> 
> In all seriousness, I don't think this is the version that will be made available for export market though.



In before someone posts politicians not for export.


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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 864165




What interesting kind of hybrid creature is this??  An Falcark or Shalcon or Sharcon?


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## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> What interesting kind of hybrid creature is this??  An Falcark or Shalcon or Sharcon?



It’s a play on words. Being a half shark (鲨）half hawk （雕）creature, it sounds similar to 傻叼，which if I am not mistaken is a term for idiots in colloquial Chinese.

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## GiantPanda

Deino said:


> What interesting kind of hybrid creature is this??  An Falcark or Shalcon or Sharcon?



Falcon-Shark. FC-31 was Gyrfalcon.

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## FuturePAF

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 864165


Isn’t that the majestic creature the J-15 “Flying Shark”?


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## siegecrossbow

FuturePAF said:


> Isn’t that the majestic creature the J-15 “Flying Shark”?



Rumor has it that the nickname for J-35 is blue shark.

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## HelloKitty94

Deino said:


> What interesting kind of hybrid creature is this??  An Falcark or Shalcon or Sharcon?



傻屌 shǎdiǎo (informal, slang) _n_. stupid person (usually in a joking way)

沙雕 shādiāo alternative form of 傻屌, used to avoid censorship of 傻屌

鲨(shā) _n_. shark
雕(diāo) _n_. eagle

傻屌 == 沙雕 == 鲨雕 _n_. shark-eagle

There you go. It's supposed to be a Chinese meme.
SAC likes to use shark to denote their jets such as a J-15 Flying-Shark. So what kind of shark can fly , eagle-shark.


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## Metal 0-1

siegecrossbow said:


> View attachment 864135


I am pretty I've seen this before. Can't really remember.

Can't be F-35 that's an original design.


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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550494960155230214

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## Stealth

onebyone said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550494960155230214


Killerrrrrr


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## FuturePAF

siegecrossbow said:


> Rumor has it that the nickname for J-35 is blue shark.


That’s a decent enough name. hopefully they do a paint scheme that reflects the name for air shows.

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## python-000

siegecrossbow said:


> View attachment 864135


Congratulations China...



FuturePAF said:


> That’s a decent enough name. hopefully they do a paint scheme that reflects the name for air shows.
> 
> View attachment 864466


What About this...

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## LKJ86

Via Weibo

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## ozranger

Test flight was captured by nearby residents.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550762230714494976

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## Stealth



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## casual

onebyone said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550494960155230214


are those ws10 engines?

this is also the first clear image of the j-35 with the Chinese armed forces logo


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## siegecrossbow

casual said:


> are those ws10 engines?
> 
> this is also the first clear image of the j-35 with the Chinese armed forces logo



They are medium thrust engines.

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## casual

siegecrossbow said:


> They are medium thrust engines.


that nozzle looks like the ws10 used on j20


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## siegecrossbow

casual said:


> that nozzle looks like the ws10 used on j20



Just because it is jagged doesn’t mean it is WS-1. Compare the nozzle diameter with a person and you can tell that it is way smaller. This is not accounting for the fact that there are two layers of nozzles, something not seen in WS-10.


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## Beast

casual said:


> are those ws10 engines?
> 
> this is also the first clear image of the j-35 with the Chinese armed forces logo

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## monitor

Image via New Horizons for Aviation - Red Guardian

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## johncliu88

Some posts outside said that the engine is called WS21, a enhanced model of WS13E. Can anyone elaborate a little bit for this model? How about WS19 then?


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## Brainsucker

ozranger said:


> Test flight was captured by nearby residents.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550762230714494976


It's big. I think bigger than FC-31.



monitor said:


> Image via New Horizons for Aviation - Red Guardian
> View attachment 864916
> View attachment 864916



It looks that the 2022 version has some kind of radar plat at the site of the body. Something that is not available in the previous version. What is it?


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## Corax

What's the need for the redesigned canopy and the hump behind the cockpit? It seems to be copying the F-35B but that's because the F-35B has a lift fan, hence the need for a larger fuselage section behind the cockpit. But that's not the case here with the J-35, so not sure why they redesigned that area, it just loses rear visibility for the pilot.


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## casual

Corax said:


> What's the need for the redesigned canopy and the hump behind the cockpit? It seems to be copying the F-35B but that's because the F-35B has a lift fan, hence the need for a larger fuselage section behind the cockpit. But that's not the case here with the J-35, so not sure why they redesigned that area, it just loses rear visibility for the pilot.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466179318258683907

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580450294042763264

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## Ali_Baba

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580450294042763264


My my - what a keen eye you have there 😂

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## Deino

By the way, besides all these speculations about a dedicated export, a twin-seater and/or a PLAAF version, are there any news about the J-35? Was a third prototype spotted already and even more any conclusions about the two "whatever they are" at Huangdicun? Are the mock-ups only (IMO most likely) or true prototypes?

PS ... allegedly a new image

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## Deino

Wow 😮 even if this image showing a J-35 prototype is clearly edited since the final digit X of serial number 35000X has been deleted, it is anyway a welcome news, since for the first time the pitot probe is missing. 

So, either this is a new prototype or a modified one. 

(Image via @lyman2003 from Weibo)

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Wow 😮 even if this image showing a J-35 prototype is clearly edited since the final digit X of serial number 35000X has been deleted, it is anyway a welcome news, since for the first time the pitot probe is missing.
> 
> So, either this is a new prototype or a modified one.
> 
> (Image via @lyman2003 from Weibo)
> 
> View attachment 900526

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## Deino

In mind that recently many faked and manipulated images on modern Chinese types have been posted, I‘m not entirely sure if this new J-35 is legit 🤔 … but I think it is.😉

(Image via @鼎盛风清 from Weibo)

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## Deino

And another J-35 image … 

(Image briefly seen on Bilibili)

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## S10

Deino said:


> And another J-35 image …
> 
> (Image briefly seen on Bilibili)
> 
> View attachment 908954


The rear visibility looks horrible. I hope they at least put some camera in the back for pilots' HMD to have some situational awareness in case of a dog fight.


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## PakFactor

S10 said:


> The rear visibility looks horrible. I hope they at least put some camera in the back for pilots' HMD to have some situational awareness in case of a dog fight.



It should have an extended glass canopy like the F-35.


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## vi-va

S10 said:


> The rear visibility looks horrible. I hope they at least put some camera in the back for pilots' HMD to have some situational awareness in case of a dog fight.


rear visibility not needed any longer.


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## S10

vi-va said:


> rear visibility not needed any longer.


On the contrary, I think there is a high likelihood that stealth fighters will end up in dogfight with each other due to reduce detection range.

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## vi-va

S10 said:


> On the contrary, I think there is a high likelihood that stealth fighters will end up in dogfight with each other due to reduce detection range.



Distributed Aperture System(DAS) provide 360° view（EOTS）. Naked eyesight will not be much less needed.




Pilot see through the cockpit with Helmet Mounted Display System(HMDS). You don't need to see your rivals anymore in dog fighting.





Electro-Optical Targeting System(EOTS) provide infrared searching, targeting, laser spot tracker, A-A ISRT.





The next step is AI replace the pilot.

F-35 is a much more powerful fighter jet than F-22

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## python-000

Deino said:


> And another J-35 image …
> 
> (Image briefly seen on Bilibili)
> 
> View attachment 908954


hopefully PAKSITAN will get them in future...

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