# Detailed pics of new POF guns!!



## DESERT FIGHTER

*The modified G3:*






















*G3S*


















*The modified MG3*







*The DMR:*















SOME DETAILS:
Pakistani POF group demonstrated in Istanbul modernized rifle G3M, as well as the modification of ukaemu MG3. This first replace the arming of Pakistan Army G3A3 and G3P4.
*Comparison of the standard rifle of Pakistan Army G3A3 with a modernized model G3M. In this latter case, the modified trigger mechanism, reducing the trigger force at 1.8 kg.* For now, the military has ordered seven thousand. modernized design / Photo: Remigiusz Wolf

The main armament individual Pakistani army remains, produced from the 1960s to the license of the German H & K by the state-owned POF (Pakistan Ordnance Factories) G3 rifle variant of G3A3 with the butt of constant and G3P4 with retractable butt (local variant of the G3A4). This weapon is a powerful energy-powered rifle cartridge 7.62 mm x 51.
*G3M during military tests. The efficient muzzle brake allows for faster directing barrel after a shot on goal and significantly reduced the scatter gun* / Photo: ISPR / Hilal

I*ndustry tried to encourage the army and troops paramiltarne to buy rifles to ammunition indirect. POF has developed even in the years 2006-2007 on the basis of G3 variants PK7 the cartridge 7.62 mm x 39 and PK8 for ammunition 5.56 mm x 45 (New weapon for Pakistan, 2007-06-16*). Do not have given rise to greater interest from potential buyers. *PK7 proved to be too expensive for the price clones AK / AKM from China, and PK8 rejected the army, deciding to keep the cartridge 7.62 mm x 51 Both structures have been tested factory, but never implemented them into production. *

An interesting fact is the lack of handle mounting rail under tension. Representatives of POF argued that this is to reduce the risk of injury during hand reload 

I_n 2007, Pakistan declared the need to purchase from 500 to 800 thousand. construction of new shooting, but the cost of this operation, the estimated time for approx. 2 billion, discouraged military decision-makers. Implementation of the production of the new model proved to be too expensive, furthermore, if the army is satisfied with the design used for archery. It is worth noting that because of the weapons used in the technology of the 1940s and 1950s production G3 rifle is now quite expensive. \ _

*Comparison variety G3S summary of 300-mm barrel for a modernized G3M with a standard length of 450 mm. The mass of the former is 4.5 kg, the second 4.7 kg *

In the meantime,* POF developed new variants of the G3, including a shortened variant with a barrel length of 300 mm and a variant called G3S parawyborowy of 508-mm barrel DMR Mk 1*

The latter were slightly older variant were ordered, inter alia, by Vietnam (Vietnam buys Pakistani weapons, 2007-08-23). Created a modification of the standard rifle called G3M. 
*New samopowtarzalny sniper rifle based on the G3 - DMR Mk 1 with 508-mm barrel. Older generation models were ordered, inter alia, by Vietnam*
*Finally, a few weeks ago been decided on gradual adaptation to version G3M all guns used in the army G3A3 and G3P4. Among the changes to adapt weapons to mount additional equipment by placing a section of the universal mounting rail on the back of the receiver, replacing the bed by a team of three Picatinny rails (with the rail has not been cut to a certain length on the left side so as not to cause injury when tensioning rifle shooter) . *
New device outlet MG3 machine gun. It has at the same time allow for hassle-free recoil of the barrel, as well as allow for an increase in accuracy with the same weapon by reducing its impact while shooting a soldier / Photos: Remigiusz Wolf 

*G3M rifle has a modified trigger mechanism, a much better, more smooth operation. Furthermore, the muzzle provided a new, much more efficient muzzle brake. This way a single shooter firing much faster can guide the weapon to the target again. In addition, POF has developed two variants of front grip - fixed and rotary three positions (vertical and inclined at 45 ° to the front and back). For now, the army ordered the first 7 thousand. G3M of butts extensible with additional intermediate position, used when shooting from vehicles. *

*The military plans of the G3A3 rifle adapted to a similar standard, but with fixed and telescopic rifle butts*. This last solution is to enable soldiers to conduct fire even when the flask up to the summary, which often takes place during the ambush. Unfortunately, the strong cartridge rifle, shooting G3M with stock rod fully retracted is only a waste of ammunition. POF not yet introduced a telescopic flask (with a movable foot moving on the sleeve of the guide), but it has to be one of the available commercial models on the market*. Ultimately, all used by the Pakistani army rifles to be adapted to the standard G3M. *

*POF also presented in Istanbul slightly modified universal machine gun MG3*. Also in that case the rejection of the amplifier characteristic there is a new output unit, performing the role of the exhaust brake.* This solution allows you to have the ukaemu much more accurate fire while slightly decreases recoil. *It is worth noting that due to the delays associated with the introduction of the weapons successor MG3 in Germany, *it is the POF took part in the modernization of 2.2 thousand. German ukaemów this type.*
* Pakistani company was the contractor a contract that the company won the Schmeisser (HK121 in Poland, 2012-04-03).????*



@Aeronaut @balixd @sandy_3126 @graphican @F.O.X @Irfan Baloch @Icarus



@RescueRanger  @Windjammer @MastanKhan

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## Sulman Badshah



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## Amaa'n

Nive... But am waiting for HK 33, ...lets hope they work on that


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## Sulman Badshah

balixd said:


> Nive... But am waiting for HK 33, ...lets hope they work on that



PK 08 is derived from HK 33 concept


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## DESERT FIGHTER

PK-08 was/is a sexy weapon:

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## FunkyGen

@DESERT FIGHTER dude we need magpul stocks 
https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f09984....rackcdn.com/product/resized/xmag370dkear.jpg


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## Amaa'n

Sulman Badshah said:


> PK 08 is derived from HK 33 concept


As far as i know its not in production.... Is it??


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## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> As far as i know its not in production.... Is it??



It was shown in 2008... reports about it being tested by SSG.. they didnt like the 5.62 calib.


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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> Nive... But am waiting for HK 33, ...lets hope they work on that


Well if Pakistan gets the money than we should go for HK 28 for Marksman and HK 416 and 417 for SSG and infantry


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## Elly

Great job done POF...


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## Rajput_Pakistani

@DESERT FIGHTER 

Can you tell something about modified MG3?
Has the range been increased?
As from picture its look like the Flash suppressor has been added?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Rajput_Pakistani said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Can you tell something about modified MG3?
> Has the range been increased?
> As from picture its look like the Flash suppressor has been added?



Some details added in the original post bro..

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## S-A-B-E-R->

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Some details added in the original post bro..


i believe the details are translated from some other language...all i understood was MG3 got a new flass supressor that increases accuracy and reduces recoil ? am i rite


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## Rajput_Pakistani

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> i believe the details are translated from some other language...all i understood was MG3 got a new flass supressor that increases accuracy and reduces recoil ? am i rite


Yes. Old MG3 produces a lot of flake while firing. So the Gun position during battle is visible clearly even a mile away. Thats a good addition in my opinion.

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## Neptune

I think PK needs more accurate rifles at the fight against terror. Considering funds, H&K-33E would be the best option. Does Pakistan have any future plans for replacing AKs and G3s?

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## nomi007

Great job


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## rockstar08

Neptune said:


> I think PK needs more accurate rifles at the fight against terror. Considering funds, H&K-33E would be the best option. Does Pakistan have any future plans for replacing AKs and G3s?



there were some Rumors in Past .. but so far no nothing .. 
maybe @Aeronaut can Enlighten us 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> PK-08 was/is a sexy weapon:
> 
> View attachment 42748



i really like this one 
if i ever had a gun of my own.. i will but this one


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## Informant

@DESERT FIGHTER strikes again with his awesome posts. 

Bro could you please go into details for MP5 PK1 with a threaded barrel. If you got pics please post them.


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## FunkyGen

Neptune said:


> I think PK needs more accurate rifles at the fight against terror. Considering funds, H&K-33E would be the best option. Does Pakistan have any future plans for replacing AKs and G3s?


Dear, this WOT was never a game of weapons.... It was a game of minds which as by the looks of it has been won....

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## AsianLion

Amazing posts of pics of Pakistani made guns, Pakistan has really established very well in guns market.


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## tarrar

It is time for POF to make new assault rifles, light & accurate similar to M4 assault rifles. G3 & FN are bulky.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER strikes again with his awesome posts.
> 
> Bro could you please go into details for MP5 PK1 with a threaded barrel. If you got pics please post them.



Lalay im not so sure about which variant you are talkin abt... but this is the basic PK-1


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## Neptune

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lalay im not so sure about which variant you are talkin abt... but this is the basic PK-1
> 
> View attachment 42930
> 
> 
> View attachment 42931
> 
> 
> POF also supplies weapons to Vietnam.. came as a surprise to me..
> 
> 
> POF produced/produces 5.62 calib weapons.. but nobody seemed likes tht.. here :
> 
> View attachment 42933



Whuppss..bro u sure its 5.62? It was 5.56 NATO the last time I fired HK-33E :/

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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lalay im not so sure about which variant you are talkin abt... but this is the basic PK-1
> 
> View attachment 42930
> 
> 
> View attachment 42931
> 
> 
> POF also supplies weapons to Vietnam.. came as a surprise to me..
> 
> 
> POF produced/produces 5.62 calib weapons.. but nobody seemed likes tht.. here :
> 
> View attachment 42933



Yeah i saw a PK1 with a threaded barrel to attach suppressors, still looking for one.

the PK-8 is the sex, Turks use them. Dont know why we dont.


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## Neptune

Informant said:


> Yeah i saw a PK1 with a threaded barrel to attach suppressors, still looking for one.
> 
> the PK-8 is the sex, Turks use them. Dont know why we dont.



What? No. Any proof we use PK-8?


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## Informant

Neptune said:


> What? No. Any proof we use PK-8?



Oh something similar man, G3 looking 5.56.


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## FunkyGen

Neptune said:


> What? No. Any proof we use PK-8?


Ho said tht?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Neptune said:


> Whuppss..bro u sure its 5.62? It was 5.56 NATO the last time I fired HK-33E :/



Here is the PK-8 ....5.56 :











The AK type weapon is PK-7... 7.63 x 39

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## Informant

@DESERT FIGHTER yaar can you help me source an M4 or the chinese CQ?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER yaar can you help me source an M4 or the chinese CQ?



Expensive as f..k ... chinese CQ very slim chance homie...


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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Expensive as f..k ... chinese CQ very slim chance homie...



I know i got quoted 4 for an ruger and 6 for cq. Dont ask about M4

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> I know i got quoted 4 for an ruger and 6 for cq. Dont ask about M4



There was a time brand new iranian g-3s were selling for 20k ... AKs for as low as 14 k... and so on... I have a bad feeling that the shit will hit the fan once again after nato leaves... i got the M-4 for 6 long time back.


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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There was a time brand new iranian g-3s were selling for 20k ... AKs for as low as 14 k... and so on... I have a bad feeling that the shit will hit the fan once again after nato leaves... i got the M-4 for 6 long time back.



I just dont see the point in spending over 12 for an M4. Want one so badly. Faltu ka license parda hua hai


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## Zarvan

Neptune said:


> What? No. Any proof we use PK-8?


How did tests off your new Gun went that MPT ?


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## Neptune

Zarvan said:


> How did tests off your new Gun went that MPT ?



Acceptance tests were done months ago. Serial Mass production started at June. The forces whom currently adopted MPT-76 as standard service rifle are some Mechanised Infantry units, Land Forces 5th Main Maintenance Center Command and Turkish Forces at Cybrus. By the beginning of 2015, It'll be the standard service rifle of Land Forces Command.



Informant said:


> Oh something similar man, G3 looking 5.56.



Ohh that's H&K-33E..we used to produce years ago.

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## Amaa'n

Informant said:


> I just dont see the point in spending over 12 for an M4. Want one so badly. Faltu ka license parda hua hai


Cq is retailing for 220k in Peshawar, max rate is 280k


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## Zarvan

Neptune said:


> Acceptance tests were done months ago. Serial Mass production started at June. The forces whom currently adopted MPT-76 as standard service rifle are some Mechanised Infantry units, Land Forces 5th Main Maintenance Center Command and Turkish Forces at Cybrus. By the beginning of 2015, It'll be the standard service rifle of Land Forces Command.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh that's H&K-33E..we used to produce years ago.


Well we have money issues that is why we are just improving the current Guns


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## Informant

balixd said:


> Cq is retailing for 220k in Peshawar, max rate is 280k



Na yaar? Store name?


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## Amaa'n

Informant said:


> Na yaar? Store name?


yes yra, no particular store, this is the current on going rate, check fakar e alam -- i have been told Saiga .223 is retailing for 260k,


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## invinciblesgunner

We should go for a lower caliber, g3 is uncontrollable at auto. And on this new model, isn't the barrel a bit too short for 7.62x51 or does it use 5.56?


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## Zarvan

invinciblesgunner said:


> We should go for a lower caliber, g3 is uncontrollable at auto. And on this new model, isn't the barrel a bit too short for 7.62x51 or does it use 5.56?


We are shot off funds otherwise we would have replaced G3 by now


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## Informant

balixd said:


> yes yra, no particular store, this is the current on going rate, check fakar e alam -- i have been told Saiga .223 is retailing for 260k,



Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaice. Yaha itne chor ke bachay.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Neptune said:


> Acceptance tests were done months ago. Serial Mass production started at June. The forces whom currently adopted MPT-76 as standard service rifle are some Mechanised Infantry units, Land Forces 5th Main Maintenance Center Command and Turkish Forces at Cybrus. By the beginning of 2015, It'll be the standard service rifle of Land Forces Command.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh that's H&K-33E..we used to produce years ago.



PK-8 was produced in 2008.. nobody wanted the small calib..


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## Neptune

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> PK-8 was produced in 2008.. nobody wanted the small calib..



Yup...we had to chamge our caliber at that times due to NATO requirements. But seeing it's disadvantages at counterinsurgency in mountains, we switched back to 7.62 nato.

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## Sulman Badshah

New M4 kind of butt stock of Type 56


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## Imran Khan

Sulman Badshah said:


> New M4 kind of butt stock of Type 56
> 
> View attachment 47576
> View attachment 47577


don't know abut performance but look rubbish man


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## Informant

Imran Khan said:


> don't know abut performance but look rubbish man



Lahooooolwalaquwwwat

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## Sulman Badshah

Imran Khan said:


> don't know abut performance but look rubbish man


Brother , Type 56 is one of the respected weapon among ssg due to its reliability


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## Imran Khan

Sulman Badshah said:


> Brother , Type 56 is one of the respected weapon among ssg due to its reliability


type 56 is thing and this plastic is another thing


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## gangsta_rap

Imran Khan said:


> type 56 is thing and this plastic is another thing



I think most people would appreciate it if you stop pulling crap like that


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## Interceptor2014

Sir can you confirm, heard that POF and other military corps. are going to be privatized soon? If yes, then will GIDS and other Pakistani local companies will buy them and operate with Military assistance?


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## Imran Khan

GIANTsasquatch said:


> I think most people would appreciate it if you stop pulling crap like that


 why its holy gun because pak forces use it ? it was indians mind set as i remember .


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Imran Khan said:


> why its holy gun because pak forces use it ? it was indians mind set as i remember .



















The war on terror though has been devastating for the county .. But has radically changed the gear of the army and frontier corps ..

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## Donatello

balixd said:


> yes yra, no particular store, this is the current on going rate, check fakar e alam -- i have been told Saiga .223 is retailing for 260k,



What about the license?


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## gangsta_rap

Imran Khan said:


> why its holy gun because pak forces use it ? it was indians mind set as i remember .



In a time as volatile as the days right now our military is making progress in such fundamental subjects such as infantry gear. I find it something that we should very much respect and admire rather than mock.


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## Super Falcon

Please pof stop copying made something your own and futurestic spend money on research.
Please come out of G 3 and MP5


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## Super Falcon

Yarr ALLAH ka wasta ha akhir kab tak museum main jo guns duniya na rakgen ha woh banata rahogee. Come over G 3 and MP 5 yeh design upar neecha karba se koi nahe lega gun apni naye gun kyon nahe banata sab kuch hai akal nahe ha


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## Zarvan

@Horus @Oscar @fatman17 @AUz @Hakan @Sinan @Areesh @balixd @waz @Slav Defence @@ajpirzada

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## Tipu7

Specifications? Improvements?


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## Zarvan

Tipu7 said:


> Specifications? Improvements?


No idea about that but some changes are visible


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## Zarvan

@Horus @balixd @Oscar and others can be useful here @balixd


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## Pak_Track

The rails and collapsible stock are definite improvements, but I still think 7.62x51 is not good for urban warfare and counter insurgency. This rifle would, however fare well on the borders. G3+ACOG=Awesome 
POF should make a shorter barrel G3 in 5.56, with rails and collapsible stock or change to an AR-15 type platform. Something suited for CQB and room clearing.


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## Zhukov

G3Z G3T G3@$$%&#+*
Come on get rid of this relic now. Give us something new now POF. 
G3s need to go ASAP.


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## IrbiS

It's known variant don't need a new thread 

@DESERT FIGHTER

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> View attachment 226284
> 
> View attachment 226285
> 
> View attachment 226286
> 
> View attachment 226288
> 
> View attachment 226289
> 
> View attachment 226290
> 
> View attachment 226291
> 
> View attachment 226292
> 
> @Horus @Oscar @fatman17 @AUz @Hakan @Sinan @Areesh @balixd @waz @Slav Defence @@ajpirzada




Haven't I already created a similiar thread with most of the pics you are posting (which you copied from there)... Why waste the bandwidth ?



Pak_Track said:


> The rails and collapsible stock are definite improvements, but I still think 7.62x51 is not good for urban warfare and counter insurgency. This rifle would, however fare well on the borders. G3+ACOG=Awesome
> POF should make a shorter barrel G3 in 5.56, with rails and collapsible stock or change to an AR-15 type platform. Something suited for CQB and room clearing.


The military don't want a smaller calib weapon..

Hundreds of these were given to SSG n army..







As for a shorter version... Try G-3S



IrbiS said:


> It's known variant don't need a new thread
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER



Here is the original thread:

Detailed pics of new POF guns!!

Shorter version (mostly in use with LEA's):











Tipu7 said:


> Specifications? Improvements?


Check out my thread.

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## Syed Hussain

I am wondering who is more stupid? POF? or the people who start cracking fire works after seeing a "modernized" G3... 
"بڈھی گھوڑی لال لگام" explains it perfectly. I suppose Pakistan is the last country left on this planet to still have G-3 as it's main service rifle and with plans to carry on with it for may be next 50 years as well.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Syed Hussain said:


> I am wondering who is more stupid? POF? or the people who start cracking fire works after seeing a "modernized" G3...
> "بڈھی گھوڑی لال لگام" explains it perfectly. I suppose Pakistan is the last country left on this planet to still have G-3 as it's main service rifle and with plans to carry on with it for may be next 50 years as well.
> View attachment 226384


Sweden,Turkey,Latvia,Norway etc ? Even Germans are still using them (although not as their main battle rifle).

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## maxpayne

Pak_Track said:


> The rails and collapsible stock are definite improvements, but I still think 7.62x51 is not good for urban warfare and counter insurgency. This rifle would, however fare well on the borders. G3+ACOG=Awesome
> POF should make a shorter barrel G3 in 5.56, with rails and collapsible stock or change to an AR-15 type platform. Something suited for CQB and room clearing.


Pak Army will not go for 5.56 caliber bcz they are happy with 7.62.


ahmadnawaz22 said:


> G3Z G3T G3@$$%&#+*
> Come on get rid of this relic now. Give us something new now POF.
> G3s need to go ASAP.


G3 is a very potent rifle and very reliable even after decades use. It has excellent accuracy at higher ranges. Very simple break down, maintenance. Even i can strip/ it completely in less than 2minutes after only few minutes training. Modern rifle are little complicated for our jawans.
Also bringing something new in such large scale needs lot of money.
IMO its magazines should be of 30 instead of 20 that is the most limiting factor.

For CQBs, there are other options being used

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## denel

gentlemen, G3 serves it purpose and it does it well. Ask any NATO members how 5.56mm is challenged with it came to Afghanistan vs AK. When we transitioned to R4 (Galil derivative) from FN (7.62 nato); it was correct in our circumstances given that bush operations were always close quarter engagement and the need to 7.62mm was no longer there e.g. more rounds/mag and much lighter load to carry overall. 
My 2cents, keep G3 where the need is; 5.56 more in urban environments.
Can it be improved yes and from what i see it already is getting done; materials have improved since G3 was incepted.

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## TankMan

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> G3Z G3T G3@$$%&#+*
> Come on get rid of this relic now. Give us something new now POF.
> G3s need to go ASAP.





Syed Hussain said:


> I am wondering who is more stupid? POF? or the people who start cracking fire works after seeing a "modernized" G3...
> "بڈھی گھوڑی لال لگام" explains it perfectly.* I suppose Pakistan is the last country left on this planet to still have G-3 as it's main service rifle* and with plans to carry on with it for may be next 50 years as well.
> View attachment 226384


Heckler & Koch G3 - Users 

No, POF and the Pakistan Army are not stupid.

The G3 is an effective and reliable weapon, and with some modifications it is modern enough for our purposes. Even some of the countries that have abandoned the G3 have replaced it with weapons based on the G3 platform, i.e the G41 and HK33, because the G3 platform is effective. So instead of replacing it with another similar weapon like other countries, we have decided to modify it ourselves.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, given that Pakistan's defense budget is actually pretty low and they have better things to do than replace rifles every few years.

As for those worrying that the G3 isn't good enough for urban combat and CQC, the Army knows that and soldiers conducting those operations are given other weapons, like AK variants and MP5s. The SSG also uses M4s.

Yes, a replacement for the G3 is required in the near future, but it isn't an emergency and we can wait for a while longer.

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## Transhumanist

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sweden



Yes, but the G3A3 (Swedish designation AK4B) is only used by the Hemvärnet Nationella skyddsstyrkorna (Swedish Home Guard).











It's been replaced by the AK5c in front-line units:













DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Norway



No, it's been replaced near military-wide by the HK416. Once again, it's only in limited service with the Heimevernet (Norwegian Home Guard), even then it's being replaced with the HK416.

AG-3










HK416

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## Max Pain

I believe the best substitute is HK-417


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## Zarvan

I think after G3M we can assume Pakistan has dropped the idea of replacing G3 completely, if they had some at first place.

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## MastanKhan

Syed Hussain said:


> I am wondering who is more stupid? POF? or the people who start cracking fire works after seeing a "modernized" G3...
> "بڈھی گھوڑی لال لگام" explains it perfectly. I suppose Pakistan is the last country left on this planet to still have G-3 as it's main service rifle and with plans to carry on with it for may be next 50 years as well.
> View attachment 226384



Hi,

Why fix something that is not broken.

It works----
it works in the morning---
it works at night----
it works when it is hot---
it works when it is cold---
it works in the light---
and it works in the dark---
What do you not like about it working alright.

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## Burhan Wani

Max Pain said:


> I believe the best substitute is HK-417


SCAR FN


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## MastanKhan

denel said:


> gentlemen, G3 serves it purpose and it does it well. Ask any NATO members how 5.56mm is challenged with it came to Afghanistan vs AK. When we transitioned to R4 (Galil derivative) from FN (7.62 nato); it was correct in our circumstances given that bush operations were always close quarter engagement and the need to 7.62mm was no longer there e.g. more rounds/mag and much lighter load to carry overall.
> My 2cents, keep G3 where the need is; 5.56 more in urban environments.
> Can it be improved yes and from what i see it already is getting done; materials have improved since G3 was incepted.



Hi,

Thank you. The distances to shoot are much longer in the mountain warfare in pak afghan region---shooting from one mountain slope to the other---300-400-500 yards---. Then on top of that----you have terrs under the influence of opium / Hash.

What F16 is to the air force---G3 is to the pak military---just modifications and upgrades---. It was tailor made for pak military.

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## Zarvan

engineer saad said:


> SCAR FN


Its way more expensive

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## Zarvan

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you. The distances to shoot are much longer in the mountain warfare in pak afghan region---shooting from one mountain slope to the other---300-400-500 yards---. Then on top of that----you have terrs under the influence of opium / Hash.
> 
> What F16 is to the air force---G3 is to the pak military---just modifications and upgrades---. It was tailor made for pak military.


This new G3M has been approved I think. I have never seen Army Chief testing the gun the way Kiyani was doing. It tells a lot about new G3M.


----------



## Pak_Track

SIG 716 is awesome, in 7.62x51








Although, that looks like a rail mounted front post.
I'd prefer a fixed FP and detachable rear sight+carry handle like in a bare AR-15/M4 platform.


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## Zarvan

Pak_Track said:


> SIG 716 is awesome, in 7.62x51
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although, that looks like a rail mounted front post.
> I'd prefer a fixed FP and detachable rear sight+carry handle like in a bare AR-15/M4 platform.


The way Kiyani was testing the Gun I think we would see G3M as our main Gun

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## hussain0216

Replacing the G3 for our army will be expensive 

The G3 has both advantages and disadvantages, its big and hefty, due to size its not perfect for close combat and it has a strong recoil


BUT

Its powerfull, reliable, easy to use and maintain and whatever it hits stays hit 

Whatever we upgrade to will have to be a varient of the G3 to save costs


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## Pak_Track

Zarvan said:


> The way Kiyani was testing the Gun I think we would see G3M as our main Gun


But can we afford to install optics, lights and other accessories on the rifles?


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## Zarvan

Pak_Track said:


> But can we afford to install optics, lights and other accessories on the rifles?


Yes we can and I think we will

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## Pak_Track

One more thing, SIG has varients of the 716, 
One with 12" barrel for CQB
SIG716 CQB 12" SBR
And one with 16" barrel for Patrol
SIG716 Patrol

Even a DMR version:
SIG716 DMR


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## Zarvan

Pak_Track said:


> One more thing, SIG has varients of the 716,
> One with 12" barrel for CQB
> SIG716 CQB 12" SBR
> And one with 16" barrel for Patrol
> SIG716 Patrol
> 
> Even a DMR version:
> SIG716 DMR


We are using G3 as for Close combat we are quite satisfied with Type 56 and M4

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## nana41

Zarvan said:


> No idea about that but some changes are visible


Quoting a hadees out of context, can easily lead to wrong
interpretation. ...please be careful.

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## Zarvan

nana41 said:


> Quoting a hadees out of context, can easily lead to wrong
> interpretation. ...please be careful.


Hadees is clear no doubts at all

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## Irfan Baloch

merging with Zarvans new thread



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Haven't I already created a similiar thread with most of the pics you are posting (which you copied from there)... Why waste the bandwidth ?
> 
> 
> The military don't want a smaller calib weapon..
> 
> Hundreds of these were given to SSG n army..
> View attachment 226378
> 
> 
> 
> As for a shorter version... Try G-3S
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the original thread:
> 
> Detailed pics of new POF guns!!
> 
> Shorter version (mostly in use with LEA's):
> 
> View attachment 226379
> View attachment 226380
> 
> 
> 
> Check out my thread.


sorted

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> We are using G3 as for Close combat we are quite satisfied with Type 56 and M4


Not 100% true.. Had we been using it for CQB.. Or the MP-5s (retarded idea to produce them)... We wouldn't have gone for AK's or M-4s... 


The only gun that's being replaced is the MP-5... 


We produced AK clones (Russians got all shaky n shit)... N the cost was too high ... So instead they started importing them... N "pimping" them out.


----------



## Sage

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you. The distances to shoot are much longer in the mountain warfare in pak afghan region---shooting from one mountain slope to the other---300-400-500 yards---. Then on top of that----you have terrs under the influence of opium / Hash.
> 
> What F16 is to the air force---G3 is to the pak military---just modifications and upgrades---. It was tailor made for pak military.


G-3 is not hot favorite within the Pak Army ...they prefer the Type-56 and they commonly call it the SMG ...when a Jawan say SMG ...he means a Type-56 ...not the MP-5 or anything else ...G-3 is not liked in the army because of it's size and kick ...and uncontrollable in burst mode ...!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sage said:


> G-3 is not hot favorite within the Pak Army ...they prefer the Type-56 and they commonly call it the SMG ...when a Jawan say SMG ...he means a Type-56 ...not the MP-5 or anything else ...G-3 is not liked in the army because of it's size and kick ...and uncontrollable in burst mode ...!



The new G-3M ratifies some o those issues like weight,size,accuracy and recoil..

We should do something like the (Or should I say we are doing )...Indonesians .... They started doing similiar thing with their FNs and today they have the Pindad SS series..

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## Sage

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The new G-3M ratifies some o those issues like weight,size,accuracy and recoil..
> 
> We should do something like the (Or should I say we are doing )...Indonesians .... They started doing similiar thing with their FNs and today they have the Pindad SS series..


Pindad was checked by our COAS as well ...You are very right ...the painful truth is that we cannot leave G-3 behind completely and switch to some other fancy gun ...i don't see it possible and neither the army is willing ...G-3 has to be made adoptable according to the modern requirements and we need to set up something like NOA (National Optics Agency) who's job should be making modern optics ...like sights for guns ..something like EO Tech/Red Dots...Ballistic Eye Wears like Oakley ...and state of the art Binoculars like those from Leopold ..!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sage said:


> Pindad was checked by our COAS as well ...You are very right ...the painful truth is that we cannot leave G-3 behind completely and switch to some other fancy gun ...i don't see it possible and neither the army is willing ...G-3 has to be made adoptable according to the modern requirements and we need to set up something like NOA (National Optics Agency) who's job should be making modern optics ...like sights for guns ..something like EO Tech/Red Dots...Ballistic Eye Wears like Oakley ...and state of the art Binoculars like those from Leopold ..!




We have Complex of Optronics...



Sage said:


> Pindad was checked by our COAS as well ...You are very right ...the painful truth is that we cannot leave G-3 behind completely and switch to some other fancy gun ...i don't see it possible and neither the army is willing ...G-3 has to be made adoptable according to the modern requirements and we need to set up something like NOA (National Optics Agency) who's job should be making modern optics ...like sights for guns ..something like EO Tech/Red Dots...Ballistic Eye Wears like Oakley ...and state of the art Binoculars like those from Leopold ..!




Check out this thread you will find many sights,NVGs,long range surv equipmen (including heat etc) .. NVG n other sights for heli Pilots etc etc.

Weapons made in Pakistan

A teaser:

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## danishsaleem

Sulman Badshah said:


> View attachment 42733
> View attachment 42734
> View attachment 42735
> View attachment 42736
> View attachment 42737
> View attachment 42738
> 
> 
> View attachment 42739
> View attachment 42740
> 
> 
> View attachment 42741




IF R&D in G3 is significant, but why our SSG and special forces use AK's instead of these G3's??


----------



## Zarvan

danishsaleem said:


> IF R&D in G3 is significant, but why our SSG and special forces use AK's instead of these G3's??


Go learn about war and its kinds you will know it


----------



## Zarvan

I think @Horus or @Irfan Baloch should take interview of some senior Military man and discuss this so every body can have final answer


----------



## TankMan

danishsaleem said:


> IF R&D in G3 is significant, but why our SSG and special forces use AK's instead of these G3's??


Special Forces are generally involved in close quarters combat (CQC) more than they are in long range combat. AKs are better for CQC because they offer more mobility and are easier to handle, which is necessary in close quarters. The G3, on the other hand, is better for long-range combat, which is why most front line troops have it.

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## Sage

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> We have Complex of Optronics...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out this thread you will find many sights,NVGs,long range surv equipmen (including heat etc) .. NVG n other sights for heli Pilots etc etc.
> 
> Weapons made in Pakistan
> 
> A teaser:
> 
> View attachment 226659
> View attachment 226660
> View attachment 226661
> View attachment 226662
> View attachment 226663


What you have posted is in my knowledge, but you certainly missed what I wrote ...'something like EO Tech/Red Dots...Ballistic Eye Wears like Oakley ...and state of the art Binoculars like those from Leopold' ... It can be produced on a mass scale and shall be started as soon as possible ...and the drum magz for Type-56 as well ...!


----------



## Syed Hussain

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Why fix something that is not broken.
> 
> It works----
> it works in the morning---
> it works at night----
> it works when it is hot---
> it works when it is cold---
> it works in the light---
> and it works in the dark---
> What do you not like about it working alright.



Once upon a time I had a Pentium-3 PC.... and
It worked----
it worked in the morning---
it worked at night----
it worked when it was hot---
it worked when it was cold---
it worked in the light---
and it worked in the dark---
But I still changed it.....and the answer of "WHY" is not rocket science to guess 

Still...I will enlighten you
Comparing to modern designs, G-3 has
1- lower range
2- less accuracy
3- uncontrollable at rapid fire
4- not suitable for extremely hot, cold or dusty environment
5- not suitable in mountain areas, with terrain height changes and assosciated gravitational effects
6- not reliable, higher stoppage rate
7- low magazine capacity
With only advantage being able to defeat body armor, but again that's the advantage of 7.62x51 round..not of the rifle particularly.
But it's no wonder... I have seen threads like JF-17 VS F-22...so it's no wonder at all to praise and preffer G-3 over modern assault or combat rifles

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## denel

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you. The distances to shoot are much longer in the mountain warfare in pak afghan region---shooting from one mountain slope to the other---300-400-500 yards---. Then on top of that----you have terrs under the influence of opium / Hash.
> 
> What F16 is to the air force---G3 is to the pak military---just modifications and upgrades---. It was tailor made for pak military.


Support that. The range is too big. I rather opt for a .303 rifle vs a 5.56mm for range - we had a name for 5.56 in our unit... popcorn. just kidding.. each has its merits. 
G3 does what is deployed for. In the terrain it is deployed in, nothing is better suited.. however i see lot of AKs when i have seen photos of the guards across the NW province - clarify is it deployed there?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> We have Complex of Optronics...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out this thread you will find many sights,NVGs,long range surv equipmen (including heat etc) .. NVG n other sights for heli Pilots etc etc.
> 
> Weapons made in Pakistan
> 
> A teaser:
> 
> View attachment 226659
> View attachment 226660
> View attachment 226661
> View attachment 226662
> View attachment 226663


Interesting to see maksutov scope attached to mg42 lmg. why the need for such a scope on lmg?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@denel. That's sir is not a maksutov spotting sight nor is that s MG-42... That's a high powered sight produced (day/night) by IO (institute of optronics - Pak) on a MG-3;


This is the current gear used by Pak troops.. ( although the Kevlar vests are being replaced):






And no these aren't Special forces but regular infantry guys.

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## denel

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @denel. That's sir is not a maksutov spotting sight nor is that s MG-42... That's a high powered sight produced (day/night) by IO (institute of optronics - Pak) on a MG-3;
> 
> 
> This is the current gear used by Pak troops.. ( although the Kevlar vests are being replaced):
> 
> View attachment 226870
> 
> 
> And no these aren't Special forces but regular infantry guys.


Thank you... MG42 origin for MG3.. no worries different calibre but same design.

That scope noted as nightscope.. Yes it can be used in that role. if you look carefully , you will see the two reflectors (larger back one reflecting to another mirror on the front - seen as a circle on the front clear correcting lense) which is Maksutov in design albeit used in night scope application. Maksutov is very rugged and used in many roles/sizes right across the defence industry. I have two Maks astronomical scopes. Very good light gathering capabilities.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

denel said:


> Thank you... MG42 origin for MG3.. no worries different calibre but same design.
> 
> That scope noted as nightscope.. Yes it can be used in that role. if you look carefully , you will see the two reflectors (larger back one reflecting to another mirror on the front - seen as a circle on the front clear correcting lense) which is Maksutov in design albeit used in night scope application. Maksutov is very rugged and used in many roles/sizes right across the defence industry. I have two Maks astronomical scopes. Very good light gathering capabilities.



Sir if you don't mind me asking when did you serve during the days of the apartheid govt or after?


----------



## MastanKhan

denel said:


> Support that. The range is too big. I rather opt for a .303 rifle vs a 5.56mm for range - we had a name for 5.56 in our unit... popcorn. just kidding.. each has its merits.
> G3 does what is deployed for. In the terrain it is deployed in, nothing is better suited.. however i see lot of AKs when i have seen photos of the guards across the NW province - clarify is it deployed there?
> 
> 
> Interesting to see maksutov scope attached to mg42 lmg. why the need for such a scope on lmg?



AK's are deployed in that region and others as well---it is the 2nd and 3rd tier forces.


----------



## imiakhtar

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Or the MP-5s (retarded idea to produce them)



Nothing retarded about the MP5.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The only gun that's being replaced is the MP-5...



Then why is the Pakistan Army still ordering batches by the thousand from the POF?

When I was in Islamabad in March, my uncle took me to an army range for a little target shoot. The MP5 I got to shoot was stamped 'POF MP5 14' on the receiver which I was told indicated a 2014 manufacture gun. Incidentally, they had some MP5s there which had been manufactured in the 1980s and which were still going strong.


----------



## The_Sidewinder

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *The modified G3:*
> 
> View attachment 42708
> 
> 
> View attachment 42710
> 
> 
> View attachment 42707
> 
> 
> View attachment 42709
> 
> 
> *G3S*
> 
> View attachment 42715
> 
> 
> View attachment 42725
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 42713
> 
> 
> 
> *The modified MG3*
> 
> View attachment 42712
> 
> 
> 
> *The DMR:*
> 
> View attachment 42711
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 42732
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOME DETAILS:
> Pakistani POF group demonstrated in Istanbul modernized rifle G3M, as well as the modification of ukaemu MG3. This first replace the arming of Pakistan Army G3A3 and G3P4.
> *Comparison of the standard rifle of Pakistan Army G3A3 with a modernized model G3M. In this latter case, the modified trigger mechanism, reducing the trigger force at 1.8 kg.* For now, the military has ordered seven thousand. modernized design / Photo: Remigiusz Wolf
> 
> The main armament individual Pakistani army remains, produced from the 1960s to the license of the German H & K by the state-owned POF (Pakistan Ordnance Factories) G3 rifle variant of G3A3 with the butt of constant and G3P4 with retractable butt (local variant of the G3A4). This weapon is a powerful energy-powered rifle cartridge 7.62 mm x 51.
> *G3M during military tests. The efficient muzzle brake allows for faster directing barrel after a shot on goal and significantly reduced the scatter gun* / Photo: ISPR / Hilal
> 
> I*ndustry tried to encourage the army and troops paramiltarne to buy rifles to ammunition indirect. POF has developed even in the years 2006-2007 on the basis of G3 variants PK7 the cartridge 7.62 mm x 39 and PK8 for ammunition 5.56 mm x 45 (New weapon for Pakistan, 2007-06-16*). Do not have given rise to greater interest from potential buyers. *PK7 proved to be too expensive for the price clones AK / AKM from China, and PK8 rejected the army, deciding to keep the cartridge 7.62 mm x 51 Both structures have been tested factory, but never implemented them into production. *
> 
> An interesting fact is the lack of handle mounting rail under tension. Representatives of POF argued that this is to reduce the risk of injury during hand reload
> 
> I_n 2007, Pakistan declared the need to purchase from 500 to 800 thousand. construction of new shooting, but the cost of this operation, the estimated time for approx. 2 billion, discouraged military decision-makers. Implementation of the production of the new model proved to be too expensive, furthermore, if the army is satisfied with the design used for archery. It is worth noting that because of the weapons used in the technology of the 1940s and 1950s production G3 rifle is now quite expensive. \ _
> 
> *Comparison variety G3S summary of 300-mm barrel for a modernized G3M with a standard length of 450 mm. The mass of the former is 4.5 kg, the second 4.7 kg *
> 
> In the meantime,* POF developed new variants of the G3, including a shortened variant with a barrel length of 300 mm and a variant called G3S parawyborowy of 508-mm barrel DMR Mk 1*
> 
> The latter were slightly older variant were ordered, inter alia, by Vietnam (Vietnam buys Pakistani weapons, 2007-08-23). Created a modification of the standard rifle called G3M.
> *New samopowtarzalny sniper rifle based on the G3 - DMR Mk 1 with 508-mm barrel. Older generation models were ordered, inter alia, by Vietnam*
> *Finally, a few weeks ago been decided on gradual adaptation to version G3M all guns used in the army G3A3 and G3P4. Among the changes to adapt weapons to mount additional equipment by placing a section of the universal mounting rail on the back of the receiver, replacing the bed by a team of three Picatinny rails (with the rail has not been cut to a certain length on the left side so as not to cause injury when tensioning rifle shooter) . *
> New device outlet MG3 machine gun. It has at the same time allow for hassle-free recoil of the barrel, as well as allow for an increase in accuracy with the same weapon by reducing its impact while shooting a soldier / Photos: Remigiusz Wolf
> 
> *G3M rifle has a modified trigger mechanism, a much better, more smooth operation. Furthermore, the muzzle provided a new, much more efficient muzzle brake. This way a single shooter firing much faster can guide the weapon to the target again. In addition, POF has developed two variants of front grip - fixed and rotary three positions (vertical and inclined at 45 ° to the front and back). For now, the army ordered the first 7 thousand. G3M of butts extensible with additional intermediate position, used when shooting from vehicles. *
> 
> *The military plans of the G3A3 rifle adapted to a similar standard, but with fixed and telescopic rifle butts*. This last solution is to enable soldiers to conduct fire even when the flask up to the summary, which often takes place during the ambush. Unfortunately, the strong cartridge rifle, shooting G3M with stock rod fully retracted is only a waste of ammunition. POF not yet introduced a telescopic flask (with a movable foot moving on the sleeve of the guide), but it has to be one of the available commercial models on the market*. Ultimately, all used by the Pakistani army rifles to be adapted to the standard G3M. *
> 
> *POF also presented in Istanbul slightly modified universal machine gun MG3*. Also in that case the rejection of the amplifier characteristic there is a new output unit, performing the role of the exhaust brake.* This solution allows you to have the ukaemu much more accurate fire while slightly decreases recoil. *It is worth noting that due to the delays associated with the introduction of the weapons successor MG3 in Germany, *it is the POF took part in the modernization of 2.2 thousand. German ukaemów this type.*
> * Pakistani company was the contractor a contract that the company won the Schmeisser (HK121 in Poland, 2012-04-03).????*
> 
> 
> 
> @Aeronaut @balixd @sandy_3126 @graphican @F.O.X @Irfan Baloch @Icarus
> 
> 
> 
> @RescueRanger @Windjammer @MastanKhan



looks good.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

imiakhtar said:


> Nothing retarded about the MP5.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why is the Pakistan Army still ordering batches by the thousand from the POF?
> 
> When I was in Islamabad in March, my uncle took me to an army range for a little target shoot. The MP5 I got to shoot was stamped 'POF MP5 14' on the receiver which I was told indicated a 2014 manufacture gun. Incidentally, they had some MP5s there which had been manufactured in the 1980s and which were still going strong.



Hi ,. Lemme tell you why it was a retarded decision . Coz its USELESS apart from CQB missions .. NO,NULL,ZERO,ZILCH use ... It came in use thanks to the the insurgency .. Without that it has no value ...


That is exactly why it is being replaced with AK's... And older stock is bein gone to brig n above officers for 20,000 RS ..


----------



## denel

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sir if you don't mind me asking when did you serve during the days of the apartheid govt or after?


Both my dear friend. Still in reserve call up duty.

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## Super Falcon

G 3 ki kitni replica banaoge apna khud ka bhi kuch bana do pof

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## Thorough Pro

You have no idea what you are talking about, you need to change computers because old computers can't handle new, bigger, more resource demanding software.

Old designed guns of a particular caliber, can always fire that particular caliber. Period. However with the changes in war "scenarios" new lighter guns are better suited for some CQB scenarios.

It's time for you to learn something about weapons before you enlighten others,

1- lower range - Range is a function of type and quantity of propellant, weight of projectile, length and twist rate of barrel. G3 bullet is lethal up to 1 kilometer. is it accurate to that range? probably not because it's a battlefield rifle not a precision sniper rifle. 

2- less accuracy - Accuracy is affected by many factors like operator, ammo, air speed, humidity, time of the day, earths rotation, barrel weight, barrel gyrations, etc. It's a vast subject that I can discuss in quite detail, but don't have the time or the need to go in that detail here. G3 with iron sights it is accurate to 3 to 4 hundred meters, with proper sights may be 5 to 6 hundred meters, pretty decent in my opinion.

3- uncontrollable at rapid fire - If you knew anything about "Roller Delayed" or "Roller Lock" mechanism, you wouldn't write that 

4- not suitable for extremely hot, cold or dusty environment - Weapons are precision machines and need to be taken care of, all weapons malfunction when subjected to extreme conditions.

5- not suitable in mountain areas, with terrain height changes and assosciated gravitational effects - What?

6- not reliable, higher stoppage rate - G3 are famous for their reliability. Every machine has a life after which it requires maintenance/part replacement. Firearms are subjected to very high operating pressure and friction and wear out quickly with heavy use. If our soldiers are still using 1965 issued rifles, then problems are unavoidable, and that is not a design problem.

7- low magazine capacity - You can use 50 round drum mags if weight is not an issue. 

The whole premise of using small caliber was based on the theory that bigger round (7.62) is lethal and kills the opponent, and a dead opponent is just that, a dead soldier whereas smaller (5.56) round maims/injures a soldier and would require a minimum of two other soldiers to attend/carry him, and would pose a bigger problem for the opposing forces by requiring more resources like ambulance/medevac, attendant, doctor, medicines, etc. but recent wars have shown that injured opponent can be as dangerous as healthy soldiers and can pose a threat to friendlies, hence the search for a more potent round (with experiments with 6.8 instead of 5.56).

My theory is that round should be effective in doing it job that is neutralizing the threat. One round, one dead enemy. Dead enemy is a better moral drainer than an injured soldier. Regarding quantity, one can probably carry 150-200 7.62 or 10,000 pallets, which one is effective?



Syed Hussain said:


> Once upon a time I had a Pentium-3 PC.... and
> It worked----
> it worked in the morning---
> it worked at night----
> it worked when it was hot---
> it worked when it was cold---
> it worked in the light---
> and it worked in the dark---
> But I still changed it.....and the answer of "WHY" is not rocket science to guess
> 
> Still...I will enlighten you
> Comparing to modern designs, G-3 has
> 1- lower range
> 2- less accuracy
> 3- uncontrollable at rapid fire
> 4- not suitable for extremely hot, cold or dusty environment
> 5- not suitable in mountain areas, with terrain height changes and assosciated gravitational effects
> 6- not reliable, higher stoppage rate
> 7- low magazine capacity
> With only advantage being able to defeat body armor, but again that's the advantage of 7.62x51 round..not of the rifle particularly.
> But it's no wonder... I have seen threads like JF-17 VS F-22...so it's no wonder at all to praise and preffer G-3 over modern assault or combat rifles



You have no effing idea what you are talking about. You can't compare G3 with AK47, and you can't compare AK47 with MP5. All these are very different platform for very different roles. NO weapon beats MP5 in CQB, personal defence, and guard duty roles. Period.

MP5 did not cam in to use due to insurgency role. Pakistan has been making and using them for decades. 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Hi ,. Lemme tell you why it was a retarded decision . Coz its USELESS apart from CQB missions .. NO,NULL,ZERO,ZILCH use ... It came in use thanks to the the insurgency .. Without that it has no value ...
> 
> 
> That is exactly why it is being replaced with AK's... And older stock is bein gone to brig n above officers for 20,000 RS ..

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## ahmad raza jutt

greatest work


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## ghazi52

Nice one .....................................


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Thorough Pro said:


> You have no idea what you are talking about, you need to change computers because old computers can't handle new, bigger, more resource demanding software.
> 
> Old designed guns of a particular caliber, can always fire that particular caliber. Period. However with the changes in war "scenarios" new lighter guns are better suited for some CQB scenarios.
> 
> It's time for you to learn something about weapons before you enlighten others,
> 
> 1- lower range - Range is a function of type and quantity of propellant, weight of projectile, length and twist rate of barrel. G3 bullet is lethal up to 1 kilometer. is it accurate to that range? probably not because it's a battlefield rifle not a precision sniper rifle.
> 
> 2- less accuracy - Accuracy is affected by many factors like operator, ammo, air speed, humidity, time of the day, earths rotation, barrel weight, barrel gyrations, etc. It's a vast subject that I can discuss in quite detail, but don't have the time or the need to go in that detail here. G3 with iron sights it is accurate to 3 to 4 hundred meters, with proper sights may be 5 to 6 hundred meters, pretty decent in my opinion.
> 
> 3- uncontrollable at rapid fire - If you knew anything about "Roller Delayed" or "Roller Lock" mechanism, you wouldn't write that
> 
> 4- not suitable for extremely hot, cold or dusty environment - Weapons are precision machines and need to be taken care of, all weapons malfunction when subjected to extreme conditions.
> 
> 5- not suitable in mountain areas, with terrain height changes and assosciated gravitational effects - What?
> 
> 6- not reliable, higher stoppage rate - G3 are famous for their reliability. Every machine has a life after which it requires maintenance/part replacement. Firearms are subjected to very high operating pressure and friction and wear out quickly with heavy use. If our soldiers are still using 1965 issued rifles, then problems are unavoidable, and that is not a design problem.
> 
> 7- low magazine capacity - You can use 50 round drum mags if weight is not an issue.
> 
> The whole premise of using small caliber was based on the theory that bigger round (7.62) is lethal and kills the opponent, and a dead opponent is just that, a dead soldier whereas smaller (5.56) round maims/injures a soldier and would require a minimum of two other soldiers to attend/carry him, and would pose a bigger problem for the opposing forces by requiring more resources like ambulance/medevac, attendant, doctor, medicines, etc. but recent wars have shown that injured opponent can be as dangerous as healthy soldiers and can pose a threat to friendlies, hence the search for a more potent round (with experiments with 6.8 instead of 5.56).
> 
> My theory is that round should be effective in doing it job that is neutralizing the threat. One round, one dead enemy. Dead enemy is a better moral drainer than an injured soldier. Regarding quantity, one can probably carry 150-200 7.62 or 10,000 pallets, which one is effective?
> 
> 
> 
> You have no effing idea what you are talking about. You can't compare G3 with AK47, and you can't compare AK47 with MP5. All these are very different platform for very different roles. NO weapon beats MP5 in CQB, personal defence, and guard duty roles. Period.
> 
> MP5 did not cam in to use due to insurgency role. Pakistan has been making and using them for decades.




It's only good for CQB or as a PDW.. For guard role lmao... Unless it's a majbori... Even army hass tatted replacing MP-5s with AKs on guard duties Aswell as in FATA operations...


It was a retarded decision to get ToT for a gun which was produced specifically for CQB role... NATO cries about 5.56 Mm calib being ineffective in Afghanistan...
9mm ? It's just a automatic pistol ....so Gimme a break!



P.S: I noted that you quote an article abt calibers...

Well the 5.56 mm "Injure and maim" and force inflicting more injuries on enemy combatants dog really work now does it?


It's good for special forces Ops but not as a military rifle calib...


Even in Afghanistan it was considered a failure... 

In reali conventional war .. A soldier would be wearing Kevlar .. He would be pumped with andrenaline ... Now if this caliber can't take out (unprotected) taliban .. I doubt I would do much damage in a real war.

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## Path-Finder

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It's only good for CQB or as a PDW.. For guard role lmao... Unless it's a majbori... Even army hass tatted replacing MP-5s with AKs on guard duties Aswell as in FATA operations...
> 
> 
> It was a retarded decision to get ToT for a gun which was produced specifically for CQB role... NATO cries about 5.56 Mm calib being ineffective in Afghanistan...
> 9mm ? It's just a automatic pistol ....so Gimme a break!
> 
> 
> 
> P.S: I noted that you quote an article abt calibers...
> 
> Well the 5.56 mm "Injure and maim" and force inflicting more injuries on enemy combatants dog really work now does it?
> 
> 
> It's good for special forces Ops but not as a military rifle calib...
> 
> 
> Even in Afghanistan it was considered a failure...
> 
> In reali conventional war .. A soldier would be wearing Kevlar .. He would be pumped with andrenaline ... Now if this caliber can't take out (unprotected) taliban .. I doubt I would do much damage in a real war.



What are your thoughts on 6.5 Grendel & 6.8 SPC


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## Thorough Pro

That's what I said, its the best CQB with very low recoil and ideal for use in hostage situations as it allows quick follow up shots with very high accuracy without excessive penetration. you can use AP rounds to defeat soft armour. this is was never meant for use as a field gun.

I did not quote (copy/paste) any article, had I done that, I would have provided reference. My nick is reference to let's say my passion..

I did not understand what are you trying to say after the PS note. as far as I understand (correct me if I am wrong) you are saying the same thing that I said, so what are you contradicting? did I miss something? 




DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It's only good for CQB or as a PDW.. For guard role lmao... Unless it's a majbori... Even army hass tatted replacing MP-5s with AKs on guard duties Aswell as in FATA operations...
> 
> 
> It was a retarded decision to get ToT for a gun which was produced specifically for CQB role... NATO cries about 5.56 Mm calib being ineffective in Afghanistan...
> 9mm ? It's just a automatic pistol ....so Gimme a break!
> 
> 
> 
> P.S: I noted that you quote an article abt calibers...
> 
> Well the 5.56 mm "Injure and maim" and force inflicting more injuries on enemy combatants dog really work now does it?
> 
> 
> It's good for special forces Ops but not as a military rifle calib...
> 
> 
> Even in Afghanistan it was considered a failure...
> 
> In reali conventional war .. A soldier would be wearing Kevlar .. He would be pumped with andrenaline ... Now if this caliber can't take out (unprotected) taliban .. I doubt I would do much damage in a real war.


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## Zarvan

I don't it's done by which country but another modified G3


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## Zarvan

A Page saying this is not modified G3 ? Is it really G 3 ?


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## Super Falcon

Yaaar G 3 ki pecha ab chor do ALLAH ka wasta ha ab tu tabyat kharab hoti ha G 3 ko dekh ka

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## Zarvan

Super Falcon said:


> Yaaar G 3 ki pecha ab chor do ALLAH ka wasta ha ab tu tabyat kharab hoti ha G 3 ko dekh ka


Pakistan is more than happy with G3



Zarvan said:


> View attachment 229848
> 
> I don't it's done by which country but another modified G3


@kaonalpha Check out this version


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## Super Falcon

Bhai than im sorry to say HK was not stupid to make new version of G 3 which is G 36 if we are happy with old guns than i prefer thompson over G 3 anytime of the day


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## Zarvan

Super Falcon said:


> Bhai than im sorry to say HK was not stupid to make new version of G 3 which is G 36 if we are happy with old guns than i prefer thompson over G 3 anytime of the day


Should I tell you Germans are not happy with G36 it has serious issues. Our Army till now is fully satisfied with G3






Pakistan should check this upgrade of G3 and may be produce it @Icarus @kaonalpha


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## Sage

Zarvan said:


> Should I tell you Germans are not happy with G36 it has serious issues. Our Army till now is fully satisfied with G3
> 
> View attachment 235184
> 
> Pakistan should check this upgrade of G3 and may be produce it @Icarus @kaonalpha


Or may be we would like to stop experimenting with G-3 and move away someday towards a better Assault Rifle ...!

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## Zarvan

Sage said:


> Or may be we would like to stop experimenting with G-3 move away someday towards a better Assault Rifle ...!


No Pakistan is fully satisfied with it


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## Sage

Zarvan said:


> No Pakistan is fully satisfied with it


I have asked the infantry guys ...They all are in love with Type-56 ...not the G-3 ...soldiers seek favor from the armory in charge to issue them Type-56 ...G-3 was a big failure in both Swat and South Waziristan !

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## Zarvan

Sage said:


> I have asked the infantry guys ...They all are in love with Type-56 ...not the G-3 ...soldiers seek favor from the armory in charge to issue them Type-56 ...G-3 was a big failure in both Swat and South Waziristan !


G3 is not for short range combat for that Type 56 and Colt M4 are good


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## Saquib

Why can't POF design and built a new rifle they have the people such as engineers, gugnsmiths. feedback from soldiers they do it perhaps they could produce a good battle rifle!

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## macnurv

For those who stated that 9mm rounds are not very effective, please refer to the video below.


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## Sage

Zarvan said:


> G3 is not for short range combat for that Type 56 and Colt M4 are good


Everyone knows that Sir !


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## Viper0011.

macnurv said:


> For those who stated that 9mm rounds are not very effective, please refer to the video below.



Good video. I'd love to see how Hollow Point ballistics do. They should go out to over 500 meters just clean and penetrate both the layers.


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## macnurv

Viper0011. said:


> Good video. I'd love to see how Hollow Point ballistics do. They should go out to over 500 meters just clean and penetrate both the layers.



Nice idea, even Eric himself was quite surprised by the results of those tests. I think in one of his vlogs he did talked about his plans to try that.


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## Super Falcon

HK 416 is awsome rifle multi size bullet can be used we can get license production every rifle has it time use when time is gone we should move forward saudis turks are buying new rifles and throwing G 3


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## Psychic

Sage said:


> I have asked the infantry guys ...They all are in love with Type-56 ...not the G-3 ...soldiers seek favor from the armory in charge to issue them Type-56 ...G-3 was a big failure in both Swat and South Waziristan !


These days, most of the army guys here in Pindi carry type 56-2 rifles anyways.
Most of the pics from op areas also have soldiers armed with them instead of G3's.

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## Max Pain

Psychic said:


> These days, most of the army guys here in Pindi carry type 56-2 rifles anyways.
> Most of the pics from op areas also have soldiers armed with them instead of G3's.


Nopes nowadays i see soldiers in pindi with G3 M. 
Older ones are slowly being phased out

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## Zarvan

Max Pain said:


> Nopes nowadays i see soldiers in pindi with G3 M.
> Older ones are slowly being phased out


Take pictures with those soldiers and post them here



Max Pain said:


> Nopes nowadays i see soldiers in pindi with G3 M.
> Older ones are slowly being phased out


Take pictures with those soldiers and post them here


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## Max Pain

Zarvan said:


> Take pictures with those soldiers and post them here
> 
> 
> Take pictures with those soldiers and post them here



Thats kinda risky but i can request em. 
Since GHQ is near, the soldiers are extra cautious

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## Amaa'n

@Zarvan here is another treat for you.....an inhouse build of Bolt action sniper rifle .308 by POF wah....designed by Pakistanis....
as can be seen from photo, the result is of Shots from 800m.....
also we are making Match grade & Huntingg rounds of .308 at PoF....and this 800m result is from POF rounds
in recent competition where AI AWP & other rifles were used, this rifle stood among Top 3...i believe came second or third....

Note: Photo was copied from Facebook, and User is one of the well known Shooting enthusiast of Pakistan, Col (R) and works at POF........
@Horus @RAMPAGE @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @RescueRanger @DESERT FIGHTER

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## Irfan Baloch

balixd said:


> View attachment 236876
> View attachment 236875
> 
> @Zarvan here is another treat for you.....an inhouse build of Bolt action sniper rifle .308 by POF wah....designed by Pakistanis....
> as can be seen from photo, the result is of Shots from 800m.....
> also we are making Match grade & Huntingg rounds of .308 at PoF....and this 800m result is from POF rounds
> in recent competition where AI AWP & other rifles were used, this rifle stood among Top 3...i believe came second or third....
> 
> Note: Photo was copied from Facebook, and User is one of the well known Shooting enthusiast of Pakistan, Col (R)  and works at POF........
> @Horus @RAMPAGE @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @RescueRanger @DESERT FIGHTER


its a beast. A contemporary design of the modern sniper rifles , adjustable stock , free floated barrel , use of composites for stock and rail and a no nonsense bare-bones outlook.

as for the shooting results for this occasion are concerned, they are impressive specially when tested against other known international brands but it needs to be tested in all different weather conditions and situations to consolidate its position among the time tested platforms



Zarvan said:


> I think @Horus or @Irfan Baloch should take interview of some senior Military man and discuss this so every body can have final answer


we will only have a personal view or informed view not final answer. it a complex issue



Sage said:


> I have asked the infantry guys ...They all are in love with Type-56 ...not the G-3 ...soldiers seek favor from the armory in charge to issue them Type-56 ...G-3 was a big failure in both Swat and South Waziristan !


your claim is proven by what we see in the conflict areas. regulars and speical forces are carrying type 56s way more than G3 rifles apart from few say M4's.AK470 
I did ask a serving colonel about the handling of type 56 (given the accuracy issue of its origin) AK 47 . but he didnt say much he said it was ok. not sure how much the front grip helps in that regard. the traditional ak 47 barrel wobbles while firing and if our own SMG / type 56 inherits that feature then adding a scope on top is pointless.
I will find out more because I never got to use type 56.

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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> View attachment 236876
> View attachment 236875
> 
> @Zarvan here is another treat for you.....an inhouse build of Bolt action sniper rifle .308 by POF wah....designed by Pakistanis....
> as can be seen from photo, the result is of Shots from 800m.....
> also we are making Match grade & Huntingg rounds of .308 at PoF....and this 800m result is from POF rounds
> in recent competition where AI AWP & other rifles were used, this rifle stood among Top 3...i believe came second or third....
> 
> Note: Photo was copied from Facebook, and User is one of the well known Shooting enthusiast of Pakistan, Col (R) and works at POF........
> @Horus @RAMPAGE @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @RescueRanger @DESERT FIGHTER


Well as long as it kills good enough although shape not good


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## Sage

Irfan Baloch said:


> your claim is proven by what we see in the conflict areas. regulars and speical forces are carrying type 56s way more than G3 rifles apart from few say M4's.AK470
> I did ask a serving colonel about the handling of type 56 (given the accuracy issue of its origin) AK 47 . but he didnt say much he said it was ok. not sure how much the front grip helps in that regard. the traditional ak 47 barrel wobbles while firing and if our own SMG / type 56 inherits that feature then adding a scope on top is pointless.
> I will find out more because I never got to use type 56.


Every gun ....yes ..almost every gun wobbles when fire in auto mode ...I must have fired more than a thousand rounds on AK in semi-auto mode on target and I never had an issue...simple fact is that West could not digest this amazing weapon ...and they brought videos of AK captured with 1000 frames per second ... ....G-3 is a good weapon ...but it's weight, size and is uncontrollable when fires in auto which makes it a mule in hand ....Front grip helps a lot in stabling the weapon and quick acquisition of the target ...it eases your shoulder and you can aim your weapon for longer time on target ...SSG guys love it ...Most of them choose to select Type 56 over Styer and M-4 ...However ...Zarrars and Karrars have been ordered to adopt to M-4 platform ...don't know why ...!

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## Irfan Baloch

Sage said:


> Every gun ....yes ..almost every gun wobbles when fire in auto mode ...I must have fired more than a thousand rounds on AK in semi-auto mode on target and I never had an issue...simple fact is that West could not digest this amazing weapon ...and they brought videos of AK captured with 1000 frames per second ... ....G-3 is a good weapon ...but it's weight, size and is uncontrollable when fires in auto which makes it a mule in hand ....Front grip helps a lot in stabling the weapon and quick acquisition of the target ...it eases your shoulder and you can aim your weapon for longer time on target ...SSG guys love it ...Most of them choose to select Type 56 over Styer and M-4 ...However ...Zarrars and Karrars have been ordered to adopt to M-4 platform ...don't know why ...!


I have seen anti kalashnikov videos in western programs I know what you are talking about, but if our men dont have any issues and dont jjust carry the weapons because they are told to do so then fine.

but I have also seen full auto fire videos of R3 as well where the firers had very good grip and control. its the way you handle the gun. look up the full auto videos of European armies firing the G3 and you will see how good they fire, where as our skinnies soliders seem to fly off with the recoil unfortunately, this is my biggest issue with G3 where I dismiss the argument of people that it has a bigger round and more destructive stopping power 7.62 round. what good is a damn big round if it is never going to hit the target? this was why I was even of the view that adapt a smaller round which our smaller framed soldiers can easily handle and land a round in an area that confirms a kill (guess the winner, human skull or a 5.56 round ?)


type 56 is good compromise in that case which uses a bigger round but doesnt blow the shoulder off the socket  of a typical shooter in Pakistan.






check above video out that I took from actual war/ reconstruction videos in tribal areas/ and Sawat G3 shooting was pathetic specially in one scene which was cut out by the media later due to how bad it was at 4 to 7 sec where the soldiers firing the gun were actually loosing their balance . the type 56 fire in comparison was much in control

cant get a better/ real demonstration than this

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## Sage

Irfan Baloch said:


> I have seen anti kalashnikov videos in western programs I know what you are talking about, but if our men dont have any issues and dont jjust carry the weapons because they are told to do so then fine.
> 
> but I have also seen full auto fire videos of R3 as well where the firers had very good grip and control. its the way you handle the gun. look up the full auto videos of European armies firing the G3 and you will see how good they fire, where as our skinnies soliders seem to fly off with the recoil unfortunately, this is my biggest issue with G3 where I dismiss the argument of people that it has a bigger round and more destructive stopping power 7.62 round. what good is a damn big round if it is never going to hit the target? this was why I was even of the view that adapt a smaller round which our smaller framed soldiers can easily handle and land a round in an area that confirms a kill (guess the winner, human skull or a 5.56 round ?)
> 
> 
> type 56 is good compromise in that case which uses a bigger round but doesnt blow the shoulder off the socket  of a typical shooter in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> check above video out that I took from actual war/ reconstruction videos in tribal areas/ and Sawat G3 shooting was pathetic specially in one scene which was cut out by the media later due to how bad it was at 4 to 7 sec where the soldiers firing the gun were actually loosing their balance . the type 56 fire in comparison was much in control
> 
> cant get a better/ real demonstration than this


I totally agree ...a round must stay on target ...whether bigger or smaller but it has to hit the target .I call G-3 a good DMR in the field ...not a soldiers combat rifle ... Pak Army should have gone for FN FAL as compared to HK-G3 FAL ..Russia has switched to new handguns ...like Glocks...because they know their handguns suck ...but AK stay with them ...and they way they train and fire with their AKs ...is just awesome ...check this video and see how easy they are with their AK-75 ....
Check the grip in this pic and you can watch the video here ....!

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## Irfan Baloch

Sage said:


> I totally agree ...a round must stay on target ...whether bigger or smaller but it has to hit the target .I call G-3 a good DMR in the field ...not a soldiers combat rifle ... Pak Army should have gone for FN FAL as compared to HK-G3 FAL ..Russia has switched to new handguns ...like Glocks...because they know their handguns suck ...but AK stay with them ...and they way they train and fire with their AKs ...is just awesome ...check this video and see how easy they are with their AK-75 ....
> Check the grip in this pic and you can watch the video here ....!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 236933


so smooth . recoil is no more than pricking a paper with a needle. just awesome

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## Sage

Irfan Baloch said:


> so smooth . recoil is no more than pricking a paper with a needle. just awesome


Gen Mush was pissed off when he was told by the SSG that they have no plans to switch to other weapon than Type-56 ...He pressed them hard to adopt to some US or other Western weapon ...SSG was not willing ...he ordered to modernize the Type-56 and they did ...the end result is an awesome weapon ...reliable in all weather, anywhere anytime ...press the trigger and it fires ...that's what our guys love about the this weapon .. !

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## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> View attachment 236876
> View attachment 236875
> 
> @Zarvan here is another treat for you.....an inhouse build of Bolt action sniper rifle .308 by POF wah....designed by Pakistanis....
> as can be seen from photo, the result is of Shots from 800m.....
> also we are making Match grade & Huntingg rounds of .308 at PoF....and this 800m result is from POF rounds
> in recent competition where AI AWP & other rifles were used, this rifle stood among Top 3...i believe came second or third....
> 
> Note: Photo was copied from Facebook, and User is one of the well known Shooting enthusiast of Pakistan, Col (R) and works at POF........
> @Horus @RAMPAGE @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @RescueRanger @DESERT FIGHTER



That's one ugly rifle ..

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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> That's one ugly rifle ..


come one yar, you should appreciate the effort because as I said, the rifle competed in 1000yards match and was in top 3, and that was because of only misplaced shot by shooter, otherwise we have made one heck of a rifle.....
aik tou khud kehte ho, 'humein rifle design karni chayie, why can't we design a simple rifle' aur jab rifle bna di, tou ugly......

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## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> come one yar, you should appreciate the effort because as I said, the rifle competed in 1000yards match and was in top 3, and that was because of only misplaced shot by shooter, otherwise we have made one heck of a rifle.....
> aik tou khud kehte ho, 'humein rifle design karni chayie, why can't we design a simple rifle' aur jab rifle bna di, tou ugly......




Yara .. I'm happy about the development and its performance... Per Bhai it really is ugly..

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yara .. I'm happy about the development and its performance... Per Bhai it really is ugly..


More ugly than a Bollywood heroine without makeup

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## Irfan Baloch

Zarvan said:


> More ugly than a Bollywood heroine without makeup


this cant be helped. its to do with your national creativity and design. some can be learnt and improved and some are just natural and would never reach the aesthetics of the west take any civilian or military design of anything of the modern times only exceptions are some architecture where the east gives the west some competition.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yara .. I'm happy about the development and its performance... Per Bhai it really is ugly..


sorry it cant be helped. best thing is there is a functional working model that doest breakdown violently. yes it looks very basic but making it look like just another western rip off wont get any extra marks.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Irfan Baloch said:


> this cant be helped. its to do with your national creativity and design. some can be learnt and improved and some are just natural and would never reach the aesthetics of the west take any civilian or military design of anything of the modern times only exceptions are some architecture where the east gives the west some competition.
> 
> 
> sorry it cant be helped. best thing is there is a functional working model that doest breakdown violently. yes it looks very basic but making it look like just another western rip off wont get any extra marks.


To be honest I don't really care how it "looks".. I'm happy that we are on the right track and are proving world class rifles... 

PSRs
Azb DMR
The sportster
And now this baby...!

Let's tag another guy who likes weapons @MilSpec



Zarvan said:


> More ugly than a Bollywood heroine without makeup


Nah , Sufi Sb some of em are very do-able...

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> To be honest I don't really care how it "looks".. I'm happy that we are on the right track and are proving world class rifles...
> 
> PSRs
> Azb DMR
> The sportster
> And now this baby...!
> 
> Let's tag another guy who likes weapons @MilSpec
> 
> 
> Nah , Sufi Sb some of em are very do-able...


PSRs ? and The sportster ? pictures ?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> To be honest I don't really care how it "looks".. I'm happy that we are on the right track and are proving world class rifles...
> 
> PSRs
> Azb DMR
> The sportster
> And now this baby...!
> 
> Let's tag another guy who likes weapons @MilSpec
> 
> 
> Nah , Sufi Sb some of em are very do-able...











@DESERT FIGHTER @Irfan Baloch @balixd @Icarus @kaonalpha Why was this version not given to Infantry ? It is smaller, easy to carry, so what was the issue ?


----------



## Icarus

Zarvan said:


> PSRs ? and The sportster ? pictures ?
> Why was this version not given to Infantry ? It is smaller, easy to carry, so what was the issue ?



Probably didn't perform to expectations in the trials.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> PSRs ? and The sportster ? pictures ?
> 
> 
> View attachment 236974
> 
> View attachment 236975
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER @Irfan Baloch @balixd @Icarus @kaonalpha Why was this version not given to Infantry ? It is smaller, easy to carry, so what was the issue ?


It was based on HK G-33 .. Smaller calib etc.. It died just like the PK rifle... Rejected by the army.


P.S:G-3S is pretty compact..


----------



## MilSpec

balixd said:


> View attachment 236876
> View attachment 236875
> 
> @Zarvan here is another treat for you.....an inhouse build of Bolt action sniper rifle .308 by POF wah....designed by Pakistanis....
> as can be seen from photo, the result is of Shots from 800m.....
> also we are making Match grade & Huntingg rounds of .308 at PoF....and this 800m result is from POF rounds
> in recent competition where AI AWP & other rifles were used, this rifle stood among Top 3...i believe came second or third....
> 
> Note: Photo was copied from Facebook, and User is one of the well known Shooting enthusiast of Pakistan, Col (R) and works at POF........
> @Horus @RAMPAGE @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @RescueRanger @DESERT FIGHTER


Very impressive, this is where the Rifleman culture of pakistan pays off.

I like the 10 round box mag, reminds of the ruger scout.

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## Bratva

balixd said:


> View attachment 236876
> View attachment 236875
> 
> @Zarvan here is another treat for you.....an inhouse build of Bolt action sniper rifle .308 by POF wah....designed by Pakistanis....
> as can be seen from photo, the result is of Shots from 800m.....
> also we are making Match grade & Huntingg rounds of .308 at PoF....and this 800m result is from POF rounds
> in recent competition where AI AWP & other rifles were used, this rifle stood among Top 3...i believe came second or third....
> 
> Note: Photo was copied from Facebook, and User is one of the well known Shooting enthusiast of Pakistan, Col (R) and works at POF........
> @Horus @RAMPAGE @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @RescueRanger @DESERT FIGHTER



Isn't this the same rifle they unveild IDEAS 2014 ?


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## Sulman Badshah

Bratva said:


> Isn't this the same rifle they unveild IDEAS 2014 ?


DMR azb looks different

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## Kompromat

Azb = Pakistani PTR-90 

@Icarus - Can these rifles to fire Lapua cartridges.


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## Zarvan

Horus said:


> Azb = Pakistani PTR-90
> 
> @Icarus - Can these rifles to fire Lapua cartridges.


What is the verdict on G3M ? I mean the soldiers who are getting them what is their opinion ? @Icarus @kaonalpha @balixd


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## Icarus

Horus said:


> Azb = Pakistani PTR-90
> 
> @Icarus - Can these rifles to fire Lapua cartridges.



I don't think so, seeing as we're not using Lapua rounds yet as per my understanding.



Zarvan said:


> What is the verdict on G3M ? I mean the soldiers who are getting them what is their opinion ? @Icarus @kaonalpha @balixd



Its still being trailed.

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## Armstrong

MilSpec said:


> Very impressive, this is where the Rifleman culture of pakistan pays off.
> 
> I like the 10 round box mag, reminds of the ruger scout.



Rifleman culture of Pakistan ?  

Why didn't anyone imbue me with this culture ?  

@Icarus - I didn't hold a gun till I was 17 and that too only to fire 2 rounds !  

I missed the target on both counts !

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## Icarus

Armstrong said:


> Rifleman culture of Pakistan ?
> 
> Why didn't anyone imbue me with this culture ?
> 
> @Icarus - I didn't hold a gun till I was 17 and that too only to fire 2 rounds !
> 
> I missed the target on both counts !



My father made me fire my first rounds when I was nine. After that I spent my early teen years with an air gun, shooting at a bottle filled with sand and hung from a wire to improve my aim. After that, I started skeet shooting, and I also used to service the family armoury. So I wouldn't know what its like not knowing how to fire until 17.

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## Armstrong

Icarus said:


> My father made me fire my first rounds when I was nine. After that I spent my early teen years with an air gun, shooting at a bottle filled with sand and hung from a wire to improve my aim. After that, I started skeet shooting, and I also used to service the family armoury. So I wouldn't know what its like not knowing how to fire until 17.



Stop rubbing it in like that !  

I don't have a family armory !  

And my Mom never let me get an air gun 'cause an elder cousin of mine managed to shoot himself in the hand while tinkering with it. The idiot cost me my air gun !

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## Gufi

Armstrong said:


> And my Mom never let me get an air gun 'cause an elder cousin of mine managed to shoot himself in the hand while tinkering with it. The idiot cost me my air gun !


excuse me but I must do this


Armstrong said:


> Stop rubbing it in like that !


I am nearly unfit to use guns in my current state of health but I have fired more then two rounds and have a family armoury. I need to revoke your Kashmiriness. Ps Buttoms do not get guns

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## Irfan Baloch

Armstrong said:


> Rifleman culture of Pakistan ?
> 
> Why didn't anyone imbue me with this culture ?
> 
> @Icarus - I didn't hold a gun till I was 17 and that too only to fire 2 rounds !
> 
> I missed the target on both counts !


during 65 your "Tupsi tay thus kersi" attitude didnt help much despite all the sacrifices and efforts made when Indians have an iron grip now. so no wonder weapons stay safely away from you guys.

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## PWFI

Irfan Baloch said:


> during 65 *your "Tupsi tay thus kersi" attitude* didnt help much despite all the sacrifices and efforts made when Indians have an iron grip now. so no wonder weapons stay safely away from you guys.

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## Malik Alashter

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Here is the PK-8 ....5.56 :
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 42942
> View attachment 42943
> 
> 
> The AK type weapon is PK-7... 7.63 x 39


These guns are good for the trench warfare, not for todays where it's urban fighting.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Malik Alashter said:


> These guns are good for the trench warfare, not for todays where it's urban fighting.


Turks are usin similiar HK-33s.. Which are to be replaced by the 76's. 

Pak didn't induct them coz we don't prefer smaller caliber.


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## Armstrong

Irfan Baloch said:


> during 65 your "Tumsi tay thus kersi" attitude didnt help much despite all the sacrifices and efforts made when Indians have an iron grip now. so no wonder weapons stay safely away from you guys.



@Icarus - Janaab deekhoo aabbb Irfan Bhai bhiii mujhee troll karnaa shuru ho gaiii hain !

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## Malik Alashter

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Turks are usin similiar HK-33s.. Which are to be replaced by the 76's.
> 
> Pak didn't induct them coz we don't prefer smaller caliber.


See all these guns the G3 FN fal and it's derivatives are all big and heavy what a soldier need today and every day is a small light gun that give it enough fire plus it's light weight make it easy on some soldiers carrying long distanse the small caliber more fire power lighter you can carry more magazines.

something like the M-4 5.56 and the ak-74 5.35 are the best.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Malik Alashter said:


> See all these guns the G3 FN fal and it's derivatives are all big and heavy what a soldier need today and every day is a small light gun that give it enough fire plus it's light weight make it easy on some soldiers carrying long distanse the small caliber more fire power lighter you can carry more magazines.
> 
> something like the M-4 5.56 and the ak-74 5.35 are the best.


Not in our region .. M-4s are good for SFs and QRF forces not as a battle rifle ... USA learned it the hard way in Afghanistan.

As for Pak we have developed compact and modified versions based on G-3 and even hybrids.. Right now we have G-3M and G-3 (which is a shorter or compact variant with several modifications t muzzle,weight,length,barrel etx).

But 5ish caliber has no takers in Pak.. Here is another 5 sons thing that was rejected by the military - few hundred or a thousand of these were produced:


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## Kompromat

G-3S is in service with FC Balochistan.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> G-3S is in service with FC Balochistan.


It's in service with LEA's Aswell.. I posted a pic of g-3s with an FC soldier somewhere .. Answering Yazp.

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## New Resolve

Sell the .308 to hunters overseas. If it can compete with Remington's prices youve got a market.


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## Zarvan

I


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sweden,Turkey,Latvia,Norway etc ? Even Germans are still using them (although not as their main battle rifle).


It seem even G3M has a shorter version look at the Gun on far side it is smaller in size Horus


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## Irfan Baloch

Armstrong said:


> @Icarus - Janaab deekhoo aabbb Irfan Bhai bhiii mujhee troll karnaa shuru ho gaiii hain !


sorry if it hurt but it us more back then



Zarvan said:


> View attachment 237219
> I
> It seem even G3M has a shorter version look at the Gun on far side it is smaller in size Horus


address the recoil and get it to carbine size and keep the original 7.62 round. job done for urban warfare as well as airborne operations.



Malik Alashter said:


> These guns are good for the trench warfare, not for todays where it's urban fighting.


I would agree for densely populated areas they wont be that good hence we got M4 and type 56
but the G3s are very valid in our tribal areas mountain to mountain fights involve ranges in average of 150 to 300 meters and our long lasting issue on the east along the line of control and even working boundary a battle rifle is needed along with other heavier calibre infantry weapons.

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *The modified G3:*
> 
> View attachment 42708
> 
> 
> View attachment 42710
> 
> 
> View attachment 42707
> 
> 
> View attachment 42709
> 
> 
> *G3S*
> 
> View attachment 42715
> 
> 
> View attachment 42725
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 42713
> 
> 
> 
> *The modified MG3*
> 
> View attachment 42712
> 
> 
> 
> *The DMR:*
> 
> View attachment 42711
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 42732
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOME DETAILS:
> Pakistani POF group demonstrated in Istanbul modernized rifle G3M, as well as the modification of ukaemu MG3. This first replace the arming of Pakistan Army G3A3 and G3P4.
> *Comparison of the standard rifle of Pakistan Army G3A3 with a modernized model G3M. In this latter case, the modified trigger mechanism, reducing the trigger force at 1.8 kg.* For now, the military has ordered seven thousand. modernized design / Photo: Remigiusz Wolf
> 
> The main armament individual Pakistani army remains, produced from the 1960s to the license of the German H & K by the state-owned POF (Pakistan Ordnance Factories) G3 rifle variant of G3A3 with the butt of constant and G3P4 with retractable butt (local variant of the G3A4). This weapon is a powerful energy-powered rifle cartridge 7.62 mm x 51.
> *G3M during military tests. The efficient muzzle brake allows for faster directing barrel after a shot on goal and significantly reduced the scatter gun* / Photo: ISPR / Hilal
> 
> I*ndustry tried to encourage the army and troops paramiltarne to buy rifles to ammunition indirect. POF has developed even in the years 2006-2007 on the basis of G3 variants PK7 the cartridge 7.62 mm x 39 and PK8 for ammunition 5.56 mm x 45 (New weapon for Pakistan, 2007-06-16*). Do not have given rise to greater interest from potential buyers. *PK7 proved to be too expensive for the price clones AK / AKM from China, and PK8 rejected the army, deciding to keep the cartridge 7.62 mm x 51 Both structures have been tested factory, but never implemented them into production. *
> 
> An interesting fact is the lack of handle mounting rail under tension. Representatives of POF argued that this is to reduce the risk of injury during hand reload
> 
> I_n 2007, Pakistan declared the need to purchase from 500 to 800 thousand. construction of new shooting, but the cost of this operation, the estimated time for approx. 2 billion, discouraged military decision-makers. Implementation of the production of the new model proved to be too expensive, furthermore, if the army is satisfied with the design used for archery. It is worth noting that because of the weapons used in the technology of the 1940s and 1950s production G3 rifle is now quite expensive. \ _
> 
> *Comparison variety G3S summary of 300-mm barrel for a modernized G3M with a standard length of 450 mm. The mass of the former is 4.5 kg, the second 4.7 kg *
> 
> In the meantime,* POF developed new variants of the G3, including a shortened variant with a barrel length of 300 mm and a variant called G3S parawyborowy of 508-mm barrel DMR Mk 1*
> 
> The latter were slightly older variant were ordered, inter alia, by Vietnam (Vietnam buys Pakistani weapons, 2007-08-23). Created a modification of the standard rifle called G3M.
> *New samopowtarzalny sniper rifle based on the G3 - DMR Mk 1 with 508-mm barrel. Older generation models were ordered, inter alia, by Vietnam*
> *Finally, a few weeks ago been decided on gradual adaptation to version G3M all guns used in the army G3A3 and G3P4. Among the changes to adapt weapons to mount additional equipment by placing a section of the universal mounting rail on the back of the receiver, replacing the bed by a team of three Picatinny rails (with the rail has not been cut to a certain length on the left side so as not to cause injury when tensioning rifle shooter) . *
> New device outlet MG3 machine gun. It has at the same time allow for hassle-free recoil of the barrel, as well as allow for an increase in accuracy with the same weapon by reducing its impact while shooting a soldier / Photos: Remigiusz Wolf
> 
> *G3M rifle has a modified trigger mechanism, a much better, more smooth operation. Furthermore, the muzzle provided a new, much more efficient muzzle brake. This way a single shooter firing much faster can guide the weapon to the target again. In addition, POF has developed two variants of front grip - fixed and rotary three positions (vertical and inclined at 45 ° to the front and back). For now, the army ordered the first 7 thousand. G3M of butts extensible with additional intermediate position, used when shooting from vehicles. *
> 
> *The military plans of the G3A3 rifle adapted to a similar standard, but with fixed and telescopic rifle butts*. This last solution is to enable soldiers to conduct fire even when the flask up to the summary, which often takes place during the ambush. Unfortunately, the strong cartridge rifle, shooting G3M with stock rod fully retracted is only a waste of ammunition. POF not yet introduced a telescopic flask (with a movable foot moving on the sleeve of the guide), but it has to be one of the available commercial models on the market*. Ultimately, all used by the Pakistani army rifles to be adapted to the standard G3M. *
> 
> *POF also presented in Istanbul slightly modified universal machine gun MG3*. Also in that case the rejection of the amplifier characteristic there is a new output unit, performing the role of the exhaust brake.* This solution allows you to have the ukaemu much more accurate fire while slightly decreases recoil. *It is worth noting that due to the delays associated with the introduction of the weapons successor MG3 in Germany, *it is the POF took part in the modernization of 2.2 thousand. German ukaemów this type.*
> * Pakistani company was the contractor a contract that the company won the Schmeisser (HK121 in Poland, 2012-04-03).????*
> 
> 
> 
> @Aeronaut @balixd @sandy_3126 @graphican @F.O.X @Irfan Baloch @Icarus
> 
> 
> 
> @RescueRanger @Windjammer @MastanKhan


@StArk 13 Janab Please participate here also


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> View attachment 237219
> I
> It seem even G3M has a shorter version look at the Gun on far side it is smaller in size Horus



That's G-3M

& G-3 S.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

The Sportster :






POF PSR:


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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The Sportster :
> View attachment 237356
> 
> 
> 
> POF PSR:
> 
> View attachment 237357
> 
> 
> View attachment 237358


What is the range of this Gun ?
And guys buy the way Army has decided to go for new Gun and this was told by none other than General Raheel Shareef in his speech which he gave at his latest visit to Lahore Core. 
@Icarus @balixd @Horus @Rashid Mahmood @Manticore @fatman17 @kaonalpha and others


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## StArk 13

Zarvan said:


> What is the range of this Gun ?
> And guys buy the way Army has decided to go for new Gun and this was told by none other than General Raheel Shareef in his speech which he gave at his latest visit to Lahore Core.
> @Icarus @balixd @Horus @Rashid Mahmood @Manticore @fatman17 @kaonalpha and others


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## Zarvan

What are you trying to say here ? I can't see what you have written @StArk 13


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## StArk 13




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## Zarvan

Mr what you are doing I can't see any of your post @StArk 13


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## Indika

Zarvan said:


> Mr what you are doing I can't see any of your post @StArk 13


Top secret , for his eyes only .


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## StArk 13

The main problem with G3 is it's low ammo carrying capabillity.in modern warfare a soldsoldiecarries low ammo he is as good as dead or useless.Pakistan Army needs to issue standard ammo carrying vests for soldiers with G3.ammo carring vests which can carry 6 magazines(120 bullets) of G3 and 3 grenades.please note that 1 megaines will be loaded in rifle so a soldier will carry total of 7 megazines of G3 totalling 140 bullets.140 bullets are enough for any battle even a standalone battle in which soldiers are cut off from and reinforcements.So what we reallsuppliesweneed are ammo carrying vests for G3 which can carry 6 spare megazines and 3 grenades.it will increase combat capabillity and effectiveness of G3 by double.



eyeswideshut said:


> Top secret , for his eyes only .


I was having some problems figuring out how the replies work 



Zarvan said:


> Mr what you are doing I can't see any of your post @StArk 13


What do you think about my review bro?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *The modified G3:*
> 
> View attachment 42708
> 
> 
> View attachment 42710
> 
> 
> View attachment 42707
> 
> 
> View attachment 42709
> 
> 
> *G3S*
> 
> View attachment 42715
> 
> 
> View attachment 42725
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 42713
> 
> 
> 
> *The modified MG3*
> 
> View attachment 42712
> 
> 
> 
> *The DMR:*
> 
> View attachment 42711
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 42732
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOME DETAILS:
> Pakistani POF group demonstrated in Istanbul modernized rifle G3M, as well as the modification of ukaemu MG3. This first replace the arming of Pakistan Army G3A3 and G3P4.
> *Comparison of the standard rifle of Pakistan Army G3A3 with a modernized model G3M. In this latter case, the modified trigger mechanism, reducing the trigger force at 1.8 kg.* For now, the military has ordered seven thousand. modernized design / Photo: Remigiusz Wolf
> 
> The main armament individual Pakistani army remains, produced from the 1960s to the license of the German H & K by the state-owned POF (Pakistan Ordnance Factories) G3 rifle variant of G3A3 with the butt of constant and G3P4 with retractable butt (local variant of the G3A4). This weapon is a powerful energy-powered rifle cartridge 7.62 mm x 51.
> *G3M during military tests. The efficient muzzle brake allows for faster directing barrel after a shot on goal and significantly reduced the scatter gun* / Photo: ISPR / Hilal
> 
> I*ndustry tried to encourage the army and troops paramiltarne to buy rifles to ammunition indirect. POF has developed even in the years 2006-2007 on the basis of G3 variants PK7 the cartridge 7.62 mm x 39 and PK8 for ammunition 5.56 mm x 45 (New weapon for Pakistan, 2007-06-16*). Do not have given rise to greater interest from potential buyers. *PK7 proved to be too expensive for the price clones AK / AKM from China, and PK8 rejected the army, deciding to keep the cartridge 7.62 mm x 51 Both structures have been tested factory, but never implemented them into production. *
> 
> An interesting fact is the lack of handle mounting rail under tension. Representatives of POF argued that this is to reduce the risk of injury during hand reload
> 
> I_n 2007, Pakistan declared the need to purchase from 500 to 800 thousand. construction of new shooting, but the cost of this operation, the estimated time for approx. 2 billion, discouraged military decision-makers. Implementation of the production of the new model proved to be too expensive, furthermore, if the army is satisfied with the design used for archery. It is worth noting that because of the weapons used in the technology of the 1940s and 1950s production G3 rifle is now quite expensive. \ _
> 
> *Comparison variety G3S summary of 300-mm barrel for a modernized G3M with a standard length of 450 mm. The mass of the former is 4.5 kg, the second 4.7 kg *
> 
> In the meantime,* POF developed new variants of the G3, including a shortened variant with a barrel length of 300 mm and a variant called G3S parawyborowy of 508-mm barrel DMR Mk 1*
> 
> The latter were slightly older variant were ordered, inter alia, by Vietnam (Vietnam buys Pakistani weapons, 2007-08-23). Created a modification of the standard rifle called G3M.
> *New samopowtarzalny sniper rifle based on the G3 - DMR Mk 1 with 508-mm barrel. Older generation models were ordered, inter alia, by Vietnam*
> *Finally, a few weeks ago been decided on gradual adaptation to version G3M all guns used in the army G3A3 and G3P4. Among the changes to adapt weapons to mount additional equipment by placing a section of the universal mounting rail on the back of the receiver, replacing the bed by a team of three Picatinny rails (with the rail has not been cut to a certain length on the left side so as not to cause injury when tensioning rifle shooter) . *
> New device outlet MG3 machine gun. It has at the same time allow for hassle-free recoil of the barrel, as well as allow for an increase in accuracy with the same weapon by reducing its impact while shooting a soldier / Photos: Remigiusz Wolf
> 
> *G3M rifle has a modified trigger mechanism, a much better, more smooth operation. Furthermore, the muzzle provided a new, much more efficient muzzle brake. This way a single shooter firing much faster can guide the weapon to the target again. In addition, POF has developed two variants of front grip - fixed and rotary three positions (vertical and inclined at 45 ° to the front and back). For now, the army ordered the first 7 thousand. G3M of butts extensible with additional intermediate position, used when shooting from vehicles. *
> 
> *The military plans of the G3A3 rifle adapted to a similar standard, but with fixed and telescopic rifle butts*. This last solution is to enable soldiers to conduct fire even when the flask up to the summary, which often takes place during the ambush. Unfortunately, the strong cartridge rifle, shooting G3M with stock rod fully retracted is only a waste of ammunition. POF not yet introduced a telescopic flask (with a movable foot moving on the sleeve of the guide), but it has to be one of the available commercial models on the market*. Ultimately, all used by the Pakistani army rifles to be adapted to the standard G3M. *
> 
> *POF also presented in Istanbul slightly modified universal machine gun MG3*. Also in that case the rejection of the amplifier characteristic there is a new output unit, performing the role of the exhaust brake.* This solution allows you to have the ukaemu much more accurate fire while slightly decreases recoil. *It is worth noting that due to the delays associated with the introduction of the weapons successor MG3 in Germany, *it is the POF took part in the modernization of 2.2 thousand. German ukaemów this type.*
> * Pakistani company was the contractor a contract that the company won the Schmeisser (HK121 in Poland, 2012-04-03).????*
> 
> 
> 
> @Aeronaut @balixd @sandy_3126 @graphican @F.O.X @Irfan Baloch @Icarus
> 
> 
> 
> @RescueRanger @Windjammer @MastanKhan


@Zarvan .... The G3 in top 3 pics.... that's the configuration I was talking about a few days ago on your post on fb  .Equip a G3 with ACOG sights and a foregrip and it is best rifle for military use

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## Zarvan

StArk 13 said:


> The main problem with G3 is it's low ammo carrying capabillity.in modern warfare a soldsoldiecarries low ammo he is as good as dead or useless.Pakistan Army needs to issue standard ammo carrying vests for soldiers with G3.ammo carring vests which can carry 6 magazines(120 bullets) of G3 and 3 grenades.please note that 1 megaines will be loaded in rifle so a soldier will carry total of 7 megazines of G3 totalling 140 bullets.140 bullets are enough for any battle even a standalone battle in which soldiers are cut off from and reinforcements.So what we reallsuppliesweneed are ammo carrying vests for G3 which can carry 6 spare megazines and 3 grenades.it will increase combat capabillity and effectiveness of G3 by double.
> 
> 
> 
> I was having some problems figuring out how the replies work
> 
> 
> What do you think about my review bro?
> 
> 
> @Zarvan .... The G3 in top 3 pics.... that's the configuration I was talking about a few days ago on your post on fb  .Equip a G3 with ACOG sights and a foregrip and it is best rifle for military use


Nice but it seem that its on its way out because Army Chief himself has told Army Officers at Lahore Core that Gun will be replaced now.


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## ZAC1

New G3M is good but JV with turkey should bring out a more excellent product for PA 
Well I am in Love Already with G3M 





Looks same as G3M


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## Zarvan

ZAC1 said:


> New G3M is good but JV with turkey should bring out a more excellent product for PA
> Well I am in Love Already with G3M
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks same as G3M


In next few months thing would get clear that How many and which Guns we test to replace our G3

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## Abu Zolfiqar

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *POF also presented in Istanbul slightly modified universal machine gun MG3*.



i worked semi-offically at the POF display stand at IDEF Expo 2009 in Kuyukcekmece Istanbul when MG-3 was on full display (along with what was at that time a prototype of the POF-Eye close quarter combat anti terrorist weapon) 

good memories 

a few old snaps i took - already posted on the forum way back in April 2009 i believe it was (now in public domain and hardly a secret so no harm to our interests posting it)



Neptune said:


> I think PK needs more accurate rifles at the fight against terror. Considering funds, H&K-33E would be the best option. Does Pakistan have any future plans for replacing AKs and G3s?



Depends which service. Air Force Special Forces (SSW) use 5.56 NATO standard weapons like the FN2000s

AKs will be used for some time as they meet our requirements especially in intense rugged areas where troops deal with hit & run tactics and need a reliable weapon to counter attack (G3s have formidable stopping power but are known to jam). Our Turkish counterparts who used it as their primary arm had the same issues when fighting PKK terrorists. Like the terrorists we face - Turkiye's terrorists generally use Russian/German/Chinese (and probably American or israeli) made rifles, known for their sturdy structure (especially the former). Lighter than G3 rifles by over 1 kilo.. Other issue of some G3 variants - deforming mag slots after frequent and heavy use. Still they are old but gold, have my respect. IT can blow through most body armor (helpful against Indian forces)

Oh and in the long run who knows we could replace more G3s with PK-8s or M4 which we do use in some numbers though it costs a lot $$$$ to institute such large-scale changes in a country where more than a half-million men comprise the army. But as we have already adapted 7.62 and are also locally producing it so its not going to change in immediate overnight future as far as i can understand.

G3 can be adapted to suit different needs....its recoil @ auto is daunting but that's what tripods are for....plus they make fantastic long range burst weapons - and deadlier with a good optics

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> Nice but it seem that its on its way out because Army Chief himself has told Army Officers at Lahore Core that Gun will be replaced now.


Source ? And which rifle are they allegedly planning to induct?


----------



## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Source ? And which rifle are they allegedly planning to induct?


Gun I can't say but a officer present during General Raheel speech has told this to a friend as for which gun Sir no idea. As far as I know ask your father to get it confirmed from friends at Lahore Core.


----------



## StArk 13

Zarvan said:


> Nice but it seem that its on its way out because Army Chief himself has told Army Officers at Lahore Core that Gun will be replaced now.


that's even better.As I have said many times before Pakistan Army should switch to 5.56/45mm NATO Round rifle but G3 should remain in service. 2 soldiers in a squad should be equipped with a G3 with ACOG sights and all other squad members should have 5.56/45mm rifles. the perfect and deadly combination for modern battlefields 



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i worked semi-offically at the POF display stand at IDEF Expo 2009 in Kuyukcekmece Istanbul when MG-3 was on full display (along with what was at that time a prototype of the POF-Eye close quarter combat anti terrorist weapon)
> 
> good memories
> 
> a few old snaps i took - already posted on the forum way back in April 2009 i believe it was (now in public domain and hardly a secret so no harm to our interests posting it)
> 
> 
> 
> Depends which service. Air Force Special Forces (SSW) use 5.56 NATO standard weapons like the FN2000s
> 
> AKs will be used for some time as they meet our requirements especially in intense rugged areas where troops deal with hit & run tactics and need a reliable weapon to counter attack (G3s have formidable stopping power but are known to jam). Our Turkish counterparts who used it as their primary arm had the same issues when fighting PKK terrorists. Like the terrorists we face - Turkiye's terrorists generally use Russian/German/Chinese (and probably American or israeli) made rifles, known for their sturdy structure (especially the former). Lighter than G3 rifles by over 1 kilo.. Other issue of some G3 variants - deforming mag slots after frequent and heavy use. Still they are old but gold, have my respect. IT can blow through most body armor (helpful against Indian forces)
> 
> Oh and in the long run who knows we could replace more G3s with PK-8s or M4 which we do use in some numbers though it costs a lot $$$$ to institute such large-scale changes in a country where more than a half-million men comprise the army. But as we have already adapted 7.62 and are also locally producing it so its not going to change in immediate overnight future as far as i can understand.
> 
> G3 can be adapted to suit different needs....its recoil @ auto is daunting but that's what tripods are for....plus they make fantastic long range burst weapons - and deadlier with a good optics


dead right Sir. that's what I've been trying to say

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## RAMPAGE

Zarvan said:


> buy the way Army has decided to go for new Gun and this was told by none other than General Raheel Shareef in his speech which he gave at his latest visit to Lahore Core.


Video?


----------



## Zarvan

StArk 13 said:


> that's even better.As I have said many times before Pakistan Army should switch to 5.56/45mm NATO Round rifle but G3 should remain in service. 2 soldiers in a squad should be equipped with a G3 with ACOG sights and all other squad members should have 5.56/45mm rifles. the perfect and deadly combination for modern battlefields
> 
> 
> dead right Sir. that's what I've been trying to say


Pakistan will choose a Gun which has same caliber as G3, that I am sure about. I really hope that they go for FN SCAR even if they have to take money from GCC for that purpose



RAMPAGE said:


> Video?


For GOD sake Army Chief was addressing officers only a mute video is released on media.


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## RAMPAGE

Zarvan said:


> For GOD sake Army Chief was addressing officers only a* mute video* is released on media.


So you can read lips, maulvi?

Prove your claim.


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## Zarvan

RAMPAGE said:


> So you can read lips, maulvi?
> 
> Prove your claim.


Army officer who was in that hall listening to General Raheel Shareef has told a friend this. I am also trying to confirm it from other sources.

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## ZAC1

Pakistan is going to stick with 7.62 caliber, Army loves to use this power


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## DESERT FIGHTER

G3S

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## Super Falcon

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> G3S
> 
> View attachment 239119


It is mp 5 if im not wrong how become G3S


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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> G3S
> 
> View attachment 239119





Super Falcon said:


> It is mp 5 if im not wrong how become G3S


No it's G3S not MP5

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## WaLeEdK2

Super Falcon said:


> It is mp 5 if im not wrong how become G3S


Nope look at the mag.


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## Super Falcon

Oh thanx dear wakedk2 and zarvan eid mubarak to u both

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## MilSpec

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The Sportster :
> View attachment 237356
> 
> 
> 
> POF PSR:
> 
> View attachment 237357
> 
> 
> View attachment 237358


Hey, 
what's up with the extra tall scope mounts, does no one like a good cheek weld?


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## Psychic

Super Falcon said:


> It is mp 5 if im not wrong how become G3S


It is G3s , a cross between G3 and mp5


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## Thorough Pro

They both have a similar lower, but there are many giveaways to say that this is not an MP-5, I'll give you hint, magazine is the first one, now find at least two more 



Super Falcon said:


> It is mp 5 if im not wrong how become G3S

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## Zarvan

Enough of G3 we need to get rid of it G36 is not great option although looks great and good speed of firing but best option is HK-417 than Turkish MPT-76

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## Zarvan

Can any one provide list of Guns which use 7.62 X 51 cartridge ? @kaonalpha @Horus


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## Super Falcon

Zarvan said:


> Enough of G3 we need to get rid of it G36 is not great option although looks great and good speed of firing but best option is HK-417 than Turkish MPT-76


Agreed zarvan i fully agree and suggest armh stop buying big weapons invest in smal arms entire world have move forward battlefield has been changed the dynamics of war we should invest oplot money in tot for hk 417 with ease we get them and not to forget new machind gun for gunner we use WW 2 machine gun


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## DESERT FIGHTER

*PK-16 HMG:



*













*LSR:




*

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## Tipu7

Plz share pics of guns only, not chicks with mouth like Donald duck 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *PK-16 HMG:
> View attachment 355155
> *
> View attachment 355153
> 
> View attachment 355150
> 
> View attachment 355151
> 
> 
> *LSR:
> 
> View attachment 355152
> *
> View attachment 355156
> View attachment 355157
> View attachment 355158


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tipu7 said:


> Plz share pics of guns only, not chicks with mouth like Donald duck



You mean "batakh" ..


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## Hassan Guy

Lots of countries buy POF guns from Pakistan.


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