# Current Tensions in Xinjiang-China



## InsightDubai

*Communist China's Policy of Oppression in East Turkistan*

After imperial rule had been overthrown, no powerful central authority was established for decades. When the Communist Party came to power in 1949, China soon turned into a state of fear. That process cost the lives of tens of millions of people because of the repressive and totalitarian methods the communists used to enforce their bloody ideology.


*China: A State of Fear*

When the Communist Party came to power in 1949, China rapidly turned into a state that spread terror throughout the world. Its policies based on violence and pressure have continued unabated since those early days. Communist ideology's unfeeling and ruthless conduct towards people and its materialist views that turn realtionships between people into purely mechanical intercourse, has led to a ruthless and cruel government instead of a compassionate and just one.


*Red China's Fear of Islam*

In the preceding section we saw how East Turkestan is of great strategic and economic importance for China. Yet the frequent arrests of devout Muslims in East Turkestan, not allowing them to live in accordance with their religion, and the pressure put on their religious leaders, make it clear that there is more to their policy of oppression. First and foremost, it means that Red China is greatly concerned by the presence of Islam in East Turkestan.


*Communist China's Control over East Turkestan*

With the outbreak of the Second World War, the Russians withdrew their forces from East Turkestan. As the nationalist Chinese government was defeated by Mao's communist guerillas in various regions of the country, it fled to Formosa (Taiwan). China fell to the communists, and East Turkestan with it. Within the course of that process, the people of East Turkestan once more made a bid for independence, and the independent Republic of East Turkestan was declared in 1944, though it only lasted until Mao took control of China in 1949.

*Chinese Torture in East Turkestan*

It has been shown in the preceding sections that the lands of East Turkestan have been Muslim for the last 1,000 years. Yet for more than half a century now, it has been living under occupation by the Chinese administration. A graffiti on a door at the University of Urumchi, described by Andrew Higgins (correspondent of The Independent) as "sheer racial venom" clearly reflects the Chinese view of the Uighur Turks:

*Executions Are Still Being Carried Out In East Turkestan*

Although China's policy regarding its own people is utterly ruthless, things are even worse in East Turkestan. The number of East Turkestan Muslims executed is enormous. Any initiative by the Muslim population to live according to their religion or speak their own language, which are fundamental rights, is savagely punished. 

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I have published these artilces on my personal webiste, after going throuh this book i really wonder for the safety of the Muslims in Pakistan and other religious minorities in the region. Can china really be anybodys ally? China controls a part of Kashmir what if china wants the whole of it? Are we in right sence of mind to help and boost coperation to our own destruction once the communist regime starts expanding its boundaries?

Please read the articles and post more info on this matter if you can find it...


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## Jay_

*China demands Guantanamo Uighurs*

China has demanded the return of five Chinese Muslims resettled by the US in Albania after release from the Guantanamo Bay detention centre.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said the "suspects should be sent to China as soon as possible".

The five were among a group of about 20 ethnic Uighurs held at the military camp in Cuba.

The Uighurs are a minority Muslim group, some of whom want an independent state in Xinjiang, western China.

*On Saturday the US announced that the five men had been sent to Albania for resettlement.

US officials had concluded the ethnic Uighurs represented no danger but did not want to return them to China for fear they would face persecution.
*
'Terrorist suspects'
But the Chinese spokesman condemned the move by the US and Albania, calling it a "gross violation of international law".

*"The five people accepted by the Albanian side are by no means refugees, but are terrorist suspects," he said.*


CHINA'S UIGHURS
Ethnically Turkic Muslims, mainly in Xinjiang
Made bid for independent state in 1940s
Sporadic violence in Xinjiang since 1991
Uighurs worried about Chinese immigration and erosion of traditional culture

He said the men belonged to the "East Turkestan group", a group China accuses of waging a violent separatist campaign in Xinjiang.

On Monday, the Chinese ambassador to Albania, Tian Changchun, issued a press release calling for the five to be repatriated immediately, China's state-run Xinhua news agency reported.

*"They fought on the side of Taleban during the Afghan war, and this single fact can prove that they are nothing else but terror suspects," he said.*

The Chinese government has frequently cracked down on Uighur dissidents and accuses Uighur militants of waging a bombing and assassination campaign.

It insists that Chinese nationals held at Guantanamo Bay on suspicion of terrorism should be returned. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4753559.stm


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## Lilo

red China fears all sorts of religions and groups which promote a common group identity and which are capable of challenging the communist dictatorship.Heck , they even fear some pseudo religious fitness cults like Falun Gong movement etc. Basically chinese authorities are paranoid of their own people:idiot: and live in a constant fear of an organised uprising by them.


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## Spring Onion

Lilo said:


> red China fears all sorts of religions and groups which promote a common group identity and which are capable of challenging the communist dictatorship.Heck , they even fear some pseudo religious fitness cults like Falun Gong movement etc. Basically chinese authorities are paranoid of their own people:idiot: and live in a constant fear of an organised uprising by them.



I think its a sheer propoganda against China and the mods should look into this type of posts i mean the entire thread seems to be propoganda too against China.
Now comming to Lillo's post well why the peopel of China will rise against the government when they are enjoying all the facilities of a modern life besdies the country is strong enough that even super power is concerned over its development furthermore it has no plans to attack any country and create problems for its peopel so its foolish to day that the chines authorities are paranoid with their own people.
Stop this propoganda atleast on this forum.
jana

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## A.Rahman

China is communist, what did you expected?


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## A.Rahman

Jana said:


> I think its a sheer propoganda against China and the mods should look into this type of posts i mean the entire thread seems to be propoganda too against China.
> Now comming to Lillo's post well why the peopel of China will rise against the government when they are enjoying all the facilities of a modern life besdies the country is strong enough that even super power is concerned over its development furthermore it has no plans to attack any country and create problems for its peopel so its foolish to day that the chines authorities are paranoid with their own people.
> Stop this propoganda atleast on this forum.
> jana


 

*UN-China-Annan: Human rights group urges Annan to raise rights issues with China* 

_Agence France-Presse - October 12, 2002_


BEIJING, Oct 12 (AFP) - International rights campaigner Human Rights Watch (HRW) has urged UN Secretary General Kofi Annan to ask China to allow activists freedom in fighting AIDS and to open its ethnically-tense Xinjiang region to unrestricted monitoring.
The New York-based group said in a statement seen in Beijing Saturday that human rights should be at the forefront of Annan's visit to China and Central Asia.
The group said Annan, who arrives in China on Sunday, should press Beijing to allow greater freedom of association for grassroots activists fighting HIV/AIDS, and to ensure that the governments proposed measures to stop illegal blood collection in rural areas are implemented.
China has put activists -- including retired volunteer doctors -- under police surveillance, warned them against going into villages devastated by AIDS to help the stricken farmers and detained other activists.
In late August, prominent Chinese AIDS campaigner Wan Yanhai was detained for four weeks on charges of allegedly leaking state secrets in his work.
Wan has been particularly active in publicising the plight of rural communities devastated by the virus after selling blood to insanitary government-approved blood collectors during the 1980s and 1990s.
Illegal blood collections still continue, although on a much smaller scale, despite a government ban.
The rights group also called on Annan to urge China to open up its western Muslim-populated Xinjiang region to unrestricted access by UN and private human rights monitors and legal observers.
Foreigners can visit Xinjiang, but they are sometimes followed by police, who have been known to question locals who have contacts with the visitors.
Human rights groups and an overseas rights group for the ethnic Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang have said China is using the post-September 11 climate to crackdown harder on Uighurs, punishing even those who voice peaceful dissent.
They said China is trying to justify intensified repression of ethnic Uighurs on counter-terrorism grounds, without distinguishing between peaceful and violent dissent among Uighurs calling for autonomy or independence in Xinjiang.
HRW also said China, in dealing with growing protests by laid-off workers, should respect workers rights to organize and join independent trade unions as well as to engage in collective bargaining to seek redress of their grievances.
Annan will be in China from Sunday to Wednesday for "the annual visit he makes to each of the five permanent members of the (UN) Security Council," Annan's spokesman Fred Eckhard said. The visit is "not linked to any specific event," he added.
The five permanent members are holding difficult negotiations to find a consensus on what to do about Iraq, but Eckhard said Annan "does not see it as his role to intervene. It's their show."
Annan's 10-day tour includes Mongolia and five Central Asian republics of Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.
021012
AF021043


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## Sid

Jana said:


> I think its a sheer propoganda against China and the mods should look into this type of posts i mean the entire thread seems to be propoganda too against China.
> 
> Now comming to Lillo's post well why the peopel of China will rise against the government when they are enjoying all the facilities of a modern life besdies the country is strong enough that even super power is concerned over its development furthermore it has no plans to attack any country and create problems for its peopel so its foolish to day that the chines authorities are paranoid with their own people.
> 
> Stop this propoganda atleast on this forum.
> jana


 
Jana, propaganda isn't simply something that you don't like. And if you think this is propaganda, please come up with something to counter it and show us the truth.

The truth is, even though China is Pakistan's main ally, it is a communist state where freedom of expression, speech, religion, etc are severely limited. China has a long way to go in the human rights regard.


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## Lilo

Jana said:


> think its a sheer propoganda against China and the mods should look into this type of posts i mean the entire thread seems to be propoganda too against China.


One mans propaganda is another mans truth,so what..? labling it as propaganda without explaining why, doesnt change any thing.



Jana said:


> the country is strong enough that even super power is concerned over its development


The mighty Soviet union was strong enough to make US piss in its pants, still... it imploded.A country's military power(or predicted power in this case) has nothing to do with a countrys stability. 



> why the peopel of China will rise against the government when they are enjoying all the facilities of a modern life


ur mistaken my friend , people of china means ~1.3 billion and ALL of them are NOT enjoying ALL the facilities of a modern life.

like..

In Communist china basic healthcare facilities and free primary education were provided for by the governament. In present pesudo capitalist china,
it costs a fortune to get ur child educated beyond primary school level and even the basic healthcare facilities are out of reach for the masses.
http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/1747.html


Leave aside the facilities of a 'modern' life,

Chinese people dont have free access to facilities of a 'Human' life

like Freedom of speech , freedom of religon , freedom of assosiation right to justice etc
a simple google will turn up countless links on these issues ...u cant call this propaganda can u...?




> ....in march 2006,in the main report to the 2,927 NPC (National PeopleÃ¢â¬â¢s Congress) delegates, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao explained why the Beijing leadership was so nervous. The widening gap between rich and poor and growing unrest of workers and peasants are undermining social stability.
> 
> Wen warned that Ã¢â¬Åmarket reformÃ¢â¬Â was going through Ã¢â¬Åa very difficult periodÃ¢â¬Â. The economy grew 9.9 percent last year, foreign trade increased by 23.2 percent to $1.42 trillion and the country received $60.3 billion in foreign direct investment. However, these figures were achieved at the expense of the worsening social conditions of the Chinese masses.
> 
> Ã¢â¬ÅWe need to see clearly that there are many hardships and problems in economic and social life. Many long-standing and deep-seated conflicts have yet to be fundamentally solved and new problems have arisen that cannot be ignored,Ã¢â¬Â Wen declared in his televised speech.
> 
> Ã¢â¬ÅThere is strong public concern over the difficulty of getting medical treatment and receiving an education, and the peopleÃ¢â¬â¢s interests are adversely affected by violations of regulations and policies ... including land expropriation, housing demolition and resident relocation, corporate restructuring, pollution and serious problems in production safety,Ã¢â¬Â he warned. He pointed to ChinaÃ¢â¬â¢s appalling industrial safety record, especially in the coal mines where nearly 6,000 workers died last year.
> 
> The Premier presented a list of limited measures aimed at placating widespread resentment toward the regime. The main focus was the countryside, where protests by poor farmers over land seizures, falling incomes, heavy taxation and lack of services have been particularly intense in recent years....



The above are the words of chinese Premier Wen Jiabao.U cant label this as propaganda right..?



> During the period covered by this report, government repression of the Falun Gong spiritual movement continued. There have been thousands of cases of individuals receiving criminal, administrative, and extrajudicial punishment for engaging in Falun Gong practices, admitting that they believed in Falun Gong, or simply refusing to criticize the organization or its founder. The authorities and experts also wrote many articles characterizing the rise of religious groups that failed to register and cults such as Falun Gong as part of a plot by the West to undermine Chinese authority.
> 
> The authorities also continued their general crackdown on other groups considered to be "cults," such as the Xiang Gong, Guo Gong, and Zhong Gong qigong groups, some of which reportedly had a following comparable to that of the Falun Gong. In August 2001, police in Jiangsu arrested Shen Chang, the leader of a qigong group, and charged him with organizing gatherings aimed at disturbing social order and tax evasion. "



This sort of govt behaviour towards these "cults" in particular and religions in general...what can it be termed if it can be termed as paranoid..??

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/hr_facts.html#NoDueProcess
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/13870.htm


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## Lilo

A.Rahman said:


> China is communist, what did you expected?



Its worse bro,
China is a communist Govt employing capitalist policies on its masses


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## Spring Onion

Lilo said:


> The mighty Soviet union was strong enough to make US piss in its pants, still... it imploded.A country's military power(or predicted power in this case) has nothing to do with a countrys stability.
> paranoid..??



i was not talking about the military power as in this case US is more powerfull.


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## Officer of Engineers

Lilo said:


> This sort of govt behaviour towards these "cults" in particular and religions in general...what can it be termed if it can be termed as paranoid..??



What is your own history concerning the Thuggee?

The problem with FLG is that it brainwashes people to do unspeakable acts. The most pointed demonstration was a former PLA Officer who tried to burn himself and his daughter alive on national TV at Tianamen Square.

I really don't care about what you believe and what you do to yourself but when you decide such a horrible fate for a child, that needs to be destroyed.

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## Lilo

Officer of Engineers said:


> What is your own history concerning the Thuggee?



Whats "my own history" got to do with the discussion at hand..??
and that too abt some antique cult which operated before the british raj?
i can go on listing all the cults with their respective eccentric agendas which operated all over the world...so what..? 



> The problem with FLG is that it brainwashes people to do unspeakable acts. The most pointed demonstration was a former PLA Officer who tried to burn himself and his daughter alive on national TV at Tianamen Square.



How did u know that the cult itself brainwashed the 5 people to commit self immolation.Many tibetan activists committed selfimmolation ...does that mean tibetan buddhism or tibetan monks "brainwashed" them to commit selfimmolation..?? 
I see it more as an act of utter desperation rather than the result of systemic brainwashing.And the cultfollowers allege that it was orchestrated by the chinese govt to change the chinese public opinion against the cult...they may be lying or the govt was lying
...who knows..
What ever maybe the truth..U cannot label a cult numbering tens of millions followers by one random act by its followers.




> ....but when you decide such a horrible fate for a child, that needs to be destroyed.



..actually the cult was on the verge of destruction when that horrible fate was "decided by the cult" .



> During the period covered by this report, government repression of the Falun Gong spiritual movement continued. There have been thousands of cases of individuals receiving criminal, administrative, and extrajudicial punishment for engaging in Falun Gong practices, admitting that they believed in Falun Gong, or simply refusing to criticize the organization or its founder. The authorities and experts also wrote many articles characterizing the rise of religious groups that failed to register and cults such as Falun Gong as part of a plot by the West to undermine Chinese authority.



http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/13870.htm
http://www.time.com/time/asia/news/magazine/0,9754,97124,00.html
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/fyi/news/01/16/falun.gong/index2.html


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## Officer of Engineers

Do you even know what FLG believes in? Damn right it's a cult and not for the 1st time in Chinese history. The time before this was called the Boxer Rebellion and they believed that they could stop bullets.


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## Lilo

Officer of Engineers said:


> Do you even know what FLG believes in? Damn right it's a cult and not for the 1st time in Chinese history. The time before this was called the Boxer Rebellion and they believed that they could stop bullets.



i know enough to comment on its potrayed evilness,and in this case terming falungong as a 'cult' may mean anything ...

cult n.
1. a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5.
a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

U chose the first meaning and i chose the first with a combination of 2nd
i.e falungong is a system or community of religious worship and ritual. with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of a charismatic leader.



> ...and not for the 1st time in Chinese history. The time before this was called the Boxer Rebellion and they believed that they could stop bullets.



arey yaar why are you comparing falungong which advocates peaceful living with the violent boxer rebellion.?

and i think this discussion abt falun gong has dragged long enough and getting more and more outofsync... dont u think..?


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## genmirajborgza786

i think pakistan should not get involve in this china is our friend and we should not do foolish things by commenting on chinas internal situition pakistan stands by china and this is nothing but a propaganda mind games what we call it in diplomatic state to state circle as you can understand that it has the potiential to weaken sino pak ties we should avoid this kinds of discussions in the very first place
thanks
long live 
sino-pakistan friendship


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## Officer of Engineers

Lilo said:


> i know enough to comment on its potrayed evilness,and in this case terming falungong as a 'cult' may mean anything ...



Did you study the issue in depth or just follow the sound bites? FLG believes 150% in Chi Gong - Life Force; upto and including ignoring medicine in favour of using Chi to heal all sickness.

What's more, the leader of the cult lives in splendor - on the donations of his followers.



Lilo said:


> U chose the first meaning and i chose the first with a combination of 2nd
> i.e falungong is a system or community of religious worship and ritual. with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of a charismatic leader.



And it's still a cult even by your definition.



Lilo said:


> arey yaar why are you comparing falungong which advocates peaceful living with the violent boxer rebellion.?



FLG has been defiant from day one. I have not been to one Chinese community in Canada where they were not out in force pan handling for their cause. The Chinese Embassy got a 24/7 protest across the street; even in the dead of winter. Cops were called to force the idiots to take their kids in from the cold since they believed that Chi would keep them warm.

They may be using passive resistence but it's still resistence against government authourity.

In that regard, they are no more different than the Boxers.



Lilo said:


> and i think this discussion abt falun gong has dragged long enough and getting more and more outofsync... dont u think..?



FLG is dangerous and I have no qualms for quashing it. Just as British India did to the Thuggee. With freedom comes responsibility. What you're advocating about the Freedom of Religion, you've ignored the responsibility for that freedom. FLG is anything but responsible for itself.


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## Spring Onion

genmirajborgza786 said:


> i think pakistan should not get involve in this



yes agreed cuz the issue is not that big and as far as ughers are concerned well i will be back with some dound info on that 2mrw so m not commenting on that whthr they are wrong or right.
Now as far as Pakistan is concerned yes we should refrain from commenting much on this.


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## Spring Onion

Officer of Engineers said:


> FLG has been defiant from day one. I have not been to one Chinese community in Canada where they were not out in force pan handling for their cause. The Chinese Embassy got a 24/7 protest across the street; even in the dead of winter. Cops were called to force the idiots to take their kids in from the cold since they believed that Chi would keep them warm.
> 
> FLG is dangerous and I have no qualms for quashing it. Just as British India did to the Thuggee. With freedom comes responsibility. What you're advocating about the Freedom of Religion, you've ignored the responsibility for that freedom. FLG is anything but responsible for itself.


I think u r right i dont know much about cults history but i had watched some movies showing some rituals by the believers of cults like sacrificing kids and women for blessing. Even in this modern era these cults are dangerouse not only for theirself but also for others.So there should be no reason for sidding with its peopel or blaming China for violating humen rights.


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## Jay_

Jana said:


> So there should be no reason for sidding with its peopel or blaming China for violating humen rights.


Human rights violation is different from FLG. China is a communist state which supresses freedom of speech and thats the main tripe, and CCP is responsible for that.


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## Officer of Engineers

On that I agree. If you're going to attack China for violating human rights, do so in the right context but don't cite Chinese examples of punishing criminals. 

Oh, my, they shot a murderer in the back of the head without a lengthy trial. The horrors!


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## Jay_

Ofcourse Sir. Criminals are ought to be treated as criminals, not as freedom fighters. Whether it be Pakistan or China or India, terrorists are ought to be treated as terrorists.

But at the same time, the way China implemented one child policy then and now is horrific. The way they handled SARS and now the Avian flu is also questionable. The people would be much more aware of the surroundings if PRC has a free press and a free political will.


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## Spring Onion

Jay_ said:


> But at the same time, the way China implemented one child policy then and now is horrific. The way they handled SARS and now the Avian flu is also questionable. The people would be much more aware of the surroundings if PRC has a free press and a free political will.



Oh God man u r talking about Avian flu and connecting it with the humen rights violations  ithink any country must had handdle it carefully cuz it is and was a collective problem endangering the health of hunderds of peopel so there is no question that China might had not done anything to prevent the flu from further spread.

secondly as far as free press or political will is concerned well there is no free press arround the world. Even in the most developed countries like US and others the news we get are first filttered by the state departments.'
And cant u see that the war news i means the news we are getting from Iraq or Afghanistan do u think the journalists are allowed to present the true picture NO eveyone knows that so blaming only China for that is not fair.
As far as humen rights violations are concerned well Guetmo bay and other such examples are in case almost every country is involved in humen rights violation much more thn China.
And lastly the political will  even the most democratic countries want democracy of their own intrests in some other countries so do u think it is appropriat to say that they are busy in creating democracy that too by throwing the elected governments? Would it be callled democracy according to the political will of the people.?


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## Jay_

Jana said:


> Oh God man u r talking about Avian flu and connecting it with the humen rights violations  ithink any country must had handdle it carefully cuz it is and was a collective problem endangering the health of hunderds of peopel so there is no question that China might had not done anything to prevent the flu from further spread.


Read how Chinese officials first tried to cover the virus. Thats a rights violation. You want me to show some proof for the draconian one child policy and how it was implemented? 
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/504jlpnl.asp
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501030505/viewpoint.html
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/World_Health_Organisation:_China_engaging_in_bird_flu_cover_up
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/feb2004/nf2004029_1263_db010.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/755525.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/937991.stm



> secondly as far as free press or political will is concerned well there is no free press arround the world. Even in the most developed countries like US and others the news we get are first filttered by the state departments.


No thats not entirely true. You have to read more of the American press. Even google and some individual blogs are censored in China.



> And cant u see that the war news i means the news we are getting from Iraq or Afghanistan do u think the journalists are allowed to present the true picture NO eveyone knows that so blaming only China for that is not fair.


Journos are free to present true stories, good or bad. There are many bad press from Afghanistan or Iraq or the way it was handled. Bush did not denounce them nor he censored him.



> As far as humen rights violations are concerned well Guetmo bay and other such examples are in case almost every country is involved in humen rights violation much more thn China.


People in GB are "supposedly" terrorists caught during the WoT. They dont have any political rights nor do they have any human rights.



> And lastly the political will  even the most democratic countries want democracy of their own intrests in some other countries so do u think it is appropriat to say that they are busy in creating democracy that too by throwing the elected governments? Would it be callled democracy according to the political will of the people.?


People are supposed to elect their rulers. It is not happening in China. CPC elects their rulers, not the common man. So thats supressing free will.


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## Lilo

Officer of Engineers said:


> Did you study the issue in depth or just follow the sound bites? FLG believes 150% in Chi Gong - Life Force; upto and including ignoring medicine in favour of using Chi to heal all sickness.
> 
> What's more, the leader of the cult lives in splendor - on the donations of his followers.



So what? they didnt prioritize western medicine while treating themselves
cause they belived that their own method to be better.china has lots of indeginous medical practices like pranic healing,acupuncture,zen practices etc which have been shown to provide good results and which are still beyond the understanding of western scientists .Who are we or the chinese govt to impose its definitions of correct or incorrect medical treatments on them?. The efficacy of the methods which FLG advocates can be seen in their huge following (numbering in tens of millions and growing)..do u think they are all idiots...?



> And it's still a cult even by your definition.


I if u go by my definition then a cult can be any group led by the beliefs of a single individual which could be correct,incorrect,evil,queer...any thing. i never suggested that all cults are innately evil. 



> FLG has been defiant from day one. I have not been to one Chinese community in Canada where they were not out in force pan handling for their cause. The Chinese Embassy got a 24/7 protest across the street; even in the dead of winter. Cops were called to force the idiots to take their kids in from the cold since they believed that Chi would keep them warm.


Day one since its inception ?...now who is following the sound bites... ?
the organised protests started when the govt started an all round clampdown on falungong and started arresting and deporting its leaders.





> ....In that regard, they are no more different than the Boxers.
> FLG is dangerous and I have no qualms for quashing it. Just as British India did to the Thuggee.




boxer rebels?Thugee? you are still drawing parallels to those two with falungong ..to support ur argument..?:stupid: .One is a violent uprising whose rebels wanted to destroy all that is western and killed countless chinese christians and the other is a cult made up of waylaying bandits who practiced ritualized murder on their victims.of course their respective govts(western coalition powers in china and british govt in india) had justification to crush them.Is it the case with falungong which never harmed any one apart from "supposedly" its own followers..? 



> They may be using passive resistence but it's still resistence against government authourity.......FLG is dangerous and I have no qualms for quashing it



those who protest against govts are "dangerous" and should be "squashed"?.seriously.. are you a commie or what ?... ..ur statements can make u a communist politburo member of china in no time .


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## nifei_scott

u must be ponished by chinese or u r a man that dont want to china stronger.
look, i just want to say.
we will walk in our own road. and nothing will change of the truth that china will be stronger and stronger.
and we will do our study or work harder and harder.
guys have a good time


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## EagleEyes

Scott if your thinking that Pakistani Forces has the same view then your thinking wrong. An advanced military and economic giant, China, is in interest of Pakistan.


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## Lilo

well,
i too dont hate chinese people..
my bone of contention is only with "chinese govt".


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## Field Marshal

nifei_scott said:


> u must be ponished by chinese or u r a man that dont want to china stronger.



How can India want to China to be stronger  so do not mind if indians post hatefull comments or thread against China.

And keep going stronger :thumbsup: We will love to see China the strongest.


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## bushsuck

wow, china is torturing people in a faktitous country, did u even look at a map before making that thread?


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## bushsuck

but if you are refering to the western provinces of china, I suggest u look at history. If ppl remember, the taliban blew up the biggest buddhaist statue in afghanistan. yes, afghanistan was traditionally chinese, the muslims stole it. but they only managed to push as far as the western provinces, of which that was once hun territory that china cleared from trade war.


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## master_fx

bushsuck said:


> wow, china is torturing people in a faktitous country, did u even look at a map before making that thread?


is not called torturing, is called liberating their mind from the evil democrazist.. thats y is called People's Liberation Army!
lol


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## bushsuck

lol, u gotta try better. at least liberation sounds better than bringing the democracy as the americans call it, of course the only difference is, americans are bringing democracy to "terrorists" for defending foriegn territory, the chinese are liberating terrorists for stopping stuff from being blow up.


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## Gabbar

*China's Xinjiang hit by violence *





Three people have been killed and more than 20 injured in violence in the city of Urumqi in China's restive Xinjiang region, state media says.

Xinhua news agency said police restored order after demonstrators attacked passers-by and set fire to vehicles. 

Xinhua did not say how many people were involved or what their motive was. 

But activists and eyewitnesses said that those involved in the unrest were minority Muslim Uighurs. An overnight curfew has been declared. 

Xinjiang is home to about eight million Uighurs, some of whom want independence. 

"It started as a few hundred, and then there were easily over 1,000 involved," one unidentified eyewitness told Reuters news agency. 

Ethnic tensions

Adam Grode, an American national studying in Urumqi, said he has seen protesters knocking over police barriers and smashing bus windows. 

Police responded with tear gas, hoses and batons, he told the Associated Press news agency, and once night fell more police and soldiers poured into the city. 

Uighur activists in Japan and Germany said that they had received reports of multiple arrests. 

Xinhua said that the three dead were Han Chinese. 

It is not clear what triggered the unrest, but relations between the Han Chinese community and the Uighurs can be tense. 

China enforces tight controls in Xinjiang and rejects calls from the Uighurs for self-rule. 

The US state department accuses Beijing of human-rights abuses in the region. 

In a report released earlier this year, it said that "severe cultural and religious repression" of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang had increased. 

Uighur separatists, meanwhile, have waged a low-level campaign against Chinese rule for decades and there are sporadic outbreaks of violence.


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## aimarraul

Gabbar said:


> *China's Xinjiang hit by violence *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three people have been killed and more than 20 injured in violence in the city of Urumqi in China's restive Xinjiang region, state media says.
> 
> Xinhua news agency said police restored order after demonstrators attacked passers-by and set fire to vehicles.
> 
> Xinhua did not say how many people were involved or what their motive was.
> 
> But activists and eyewitnesses said that those involved in the unrest were minority Muslim Uighurs. An overnight curfew has been declared.
> 
> Xinjiang is home to about eight million Uighurs, some of whom want independence.
> 
> "It started as a few hundred, and then there were easily over 1,000 involved," one unidentified eyewitness told Reuters news agency.
> 
> Ethnic tensions
> 
> Adam Grode, an American national studying in Urumqi, said he has seen protesters knocking over police barriers and smashing bus windows.
> 
> Police responded with tear gas, hoses and batons, he told the Associated Press news agency, and once night fell more police and soldiers poured into the city.
> 
> Uighur activists in Japan and Germany said that they had received reports of multiple arrests.
> 
> Xinhua said that the three dead were Han Chinese.
> 
> It is not clear what triggered the unrest, but relations between the Han Chinese community and the Uighurs can be tense.
> 
> China enforces tight controls in Xinjiang and rejects calls from the Uighurs for self-rule.
> 
> The US state department accuses Beijing of human-rights abuses in the region.
> 
> In a report released earlier this year, it said that "severe cultural and religious repression" of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang had increased.
> 
> Uighur separatists, meanwhile, have waged a low-level campaign against Chinese rule for decades and there are sporadic outbreaks of violence.



 a thread posted in 2006.....you really tried,i have to give you some credit for this not matter what you posted,indian is very very funny


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## Coolyo

FREE EAST TURKISTAN!

Pakistanis love our Uighur brothers/sisters! Your persecution will not go unnoticed! Pakistan Zindabad! East Turkistan Zindabad!

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## aimarraul

indian here are more like the 50 cent poster,haha


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## Gabbar

aimarraul said:


> a thread posted in 2006.....you really tried,i have to give you some credit for this not matter what you posted,indian is very very funny



Thread might be old but it is new development in the same matter. If you want I will be more than happy to start new thread. I used search engice from this site to see if there was something already posted similar to this matter, So we dont have to make same arguments over and over again. Thank you for appriciating my sense of humor.


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## Gabbar

aimarraul said:


> indian here are more like the 50 cent poster,haha



*If you have something to post about this matter, please come forward. Dont degrade the thread.*


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## notsuperstitious

@ Aimraul - Thats today's news, don't you think the news is important, if not then pls ignore it. Why make comments about all Indians?

In case you have not noticed, every riot news in India gets posted here too, why are you so defensive?

New violence in China's Xinjiang region - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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## Gabriel

Gabbar said:


> *If you have something to post about this matter, please come forward. Dont degrade the thread.*


 I think that it's a cultural misunderstanding.
50 Cent Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## kallu_be

Now the toll has increased to 129. The Associated Press: China state media says 129 killed in riots in west . Hope this matter will be solved politically rather than using strong arm tactics.


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## Rajkumar

genmirajborgza786 said:


> i think pakistan should not get involve in this china is our friend and we should not do foolish things by commenting on chinas internal situition pakistan stands by china and this is nothing but a propaganda mind games what we call it in diplomatic state to state circle as you can understand that it has the potiential to weaken sino pak ties we should avoid this kinds of discussions in the very first place
> thanks
> long live
> sino-pakistan friendship



what happen to your human right arguments. same thing happens in kashmir, you call it human right violation and same done by china, its their internal matter. Hypocrisy at its best.

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## paritosh

Rajkumar said:


> what happen to your human right arguments. same thing happens in kashmir, you call it human right violation and same done by china, its their internal matter. Hypocrisy at its best.



couldn't have been said better...


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## BSF

Where is our Chinese friend.. O let me guess the great fire wall of China blocked him...


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## Joshi

Coolyo said:


> FREE EAST TURKISTAN!
> 
> Pakistanis love our Uighur brothers/sisters! Your persecution will not go unnoticed! Pakistan Zindabad! East Turkistan Zindabad!



For the first time, I totally agree with you.

Atleast you are not a hypocrite like many others here, for whom Kashmiri Muslims are brothers and Uhighers Muslims are not.

Thumbs up for your honesty.


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## BSF

> Originally Posted by Coolyo View Post
> FREE EAST TURKISTAN!
> 
> Pakistanis love our Uighur brothers/sisters! Your persecution will not go unnoticed! Pakistan Zindabad! East Turkistan Zindabad!



Me too..I totally agree with you dude.Great going.


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## cloyce

Very short story of what happened before:

This street demonstration seems to be triggered by a vindictive assult against a group of uighur citizens accomplished by a group of han-chinese workers near a toy factory of the region.
Six uighur youth were accused by some han-chinese workers of having harassed and raped 2 ethnic han girl, but the local police didn't found any evidence of rape crime, so no action had been taken against those youth.

Now, here comes the tragedy... Some idiots among those chinese workers thought that they can make justice by themself so they organised a massive(~100) vindictive assult armed with iron rods where 2 young uighur were killed and over a hundred wounded. 
26/06/2009.

06/07/2009
Two weeks are passed, I've not followed the facts in the meantime, but I can presume that the police has not been able to identify the killers of those 2 uighur youth; so no death sentence has been made against any han workers. Otherwise a so violent retaliation would not be justified.

In the end, I think the above mentioned event is not the cause but only the trigger of the riots. 

Let's wait for more updates.


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## Patriot

Coolyo said:


> FREE EAST TURKISTAN!
> 
> Pakistanis love our Uighur brothers/sisters! Your persecution will not go unnoticed! Pakistan Zindabad! East Turkistan Zindabad!


What are you talking about dude?We should support China.Next time you will say We love our Balochistan and it should be Independent.East Turkistan will always remain under China .People like you should take up guns and fight for your muslims brothers instead of blabbing here.We only have few friends and China is one of them..you want Pakistan to be a Banana Republic.


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## Lockheed F-16

URUMQI: China said on Monday at least 140 people were killed in rioting by Muslim Uighurs in its restive Xinjiang region in the deadliest ethnic unrest reported in the country for decades.

The violence in the regional capital Urumqi on Sunday involved thousands of people, and the official Xinhua news agency said the death toll was likely to rise.

More than 800 other people were injured in the rampage, it added.

Death toll in Xinjiang riot rises to 140, still climbing, Xinhua reported in its latest dispatch, after initially saying only three had died.

The news agency, citing local government officials, said several hundred people had already been arrested for involvement in the violence.

Dramatic footage broadcast by the state-run CCTV network showed men turning over a police car and smashing its windows, a woman being kicked as she lay on the ground, and buses and other vehicles aflame.

All shop owners in the street are very scared, one Han Chinese bar owner told AFP, asking not to be named.

She estimated there were around 3,000 Uighur protesters, some of whom were armed with wooden batons and knives.

The Xinjiang regional government blamed Rebiya Kadeer, the Uighurs leader who is living in exile in the United States, for orchestrating the unrest.

An initial investigation showed the violence was masterminded by the separatist World Uighur Congress led by Rebiya Kadeer, the government said in a statement, according to Xinhua.

However Uighur exiles, who have long chafed at Chinese rule in Xinjiang, accused Chinese security forces of over-reacting in quelling peaceful protests by thousands of people, and said police had fired indiscriminately.

Riot police and other security forces armed with machine guns and carrying shields were seen in Urumqi on Monday, preventing further protests, according to an AFP reporter here.

Truckloads of German Shepherd police dogs were also brought into Urumqi and large swathes of the Muslim quarter of the city were sealed off, the reporter said.

The Uighurs attacked motorists with rocks, said a Chinese woman who saw the riots unfold from the 11th floor of a local hospital.

They just attacked the Han people, she said. At least 10 buses were set on fire and some private cars were overturned. I saw many people were lying on the ground and bleeding. A male student was dead.

The unrest echoed deadly violence in Buddhist Tibet in March last year when Tibetans stormed through the streets of the regions capital, Lhasa, attacking Han Chinese in frustration at what they claimed was repressive Chinese rule.

Many of Xinjiangs roughly eight million Uighurs similarly say they have suffered political, cultural and religious persecution.

As in Tibet, they also complain about Han Chinese moving into Xinjiang and dominating economic and political life.

Alim Seytoff, general secretary of the Uighur American Association, laid the blame for the violence on Chinese authorities.

Seytoff said Uighur students were seeking the arrest of suspects behind an ethnically charged brawl late last month at a factory in southern China that left two Uighurs dead.

These young Uighurs peacefully took to the streets but more than 1,000 armed Chinese police came out, Seytoff told AFP in Washington.

What we were told is that they began to shoot indiscriminately.

Xinjiang is a rugged region of vast deserts and mountains that borders central Asia, and the Uighurs are a Turkic-speaking people who have closer cultural links to their regional neighbours than the Han Chinese.

This year marks 60 years since communist Chinese troops entered Xinjiang and peacefully liberated the region. Advocates of independence for the area have maintained the move was an invasion.

A resident in Kashgar, Xinjiangs famed Old Silk Road city that has also seen deadly ethnic tensions recently, told AFP by phone that extra police had been deployed on the streets there following the Urumqi violence.

The security police and armed police started patrolling last night with guns, said the resident in central Kashgar, who declined to be named.


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## 2008nnd

china have no any anti-muslim policy! and give more right to the muslim than the hang chinese! when i a see so many countryman were attacked and killed by musilim, i was so so so so angry, i cant help to stop my tears. why ! 140 hang chinese were dead, more than 800was badly wood! why , !!


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## Patriot

Chinese government is secular..THE CCP Could care less about Religion and they treat people from all religions equally.This is China internal matter and i am sure they will solve it.

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## cloyce

Can you please link us the source?

If the souce is AFP, then I don't trust it.


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## IsReal

Rubiya Kadeer And The Chinese Riot Connection
July 6th, 2009 - 6:48 pm ICT by GD ::
Communal riots does not happen much in China but recently the nation is bearing witness to a huge communal riot. It has been reported that around 80 people have been injured and hundreds arrested in the north western city of Urumqi. The communal riot has been caused as a result of the protest held on the issue of racial discrimination. The state news agency Xinhua has reported that apart from the 800 injured, the roit has also claimed the lives of 140 people. The name that is linked to the riot is Rubiya Kadeer, who is a popular political activist from the north west region of Xinjiang besides being a prominent Uyghur businesswoman. She is in news due to her leadership of the separatist group called the World Uyghur congress.

According to sources it has been said that the initial investigation indicates Rubiya Kadeer&#8217;s group as the master mind behind the violent riot. It has been found out that the Uyghur community has been instigated for an unrest using the internet and other means. Rubiya Kadeer has allegedly appealed to the rioters &#8220;to be braver&#8221; and &#8220;to do something big.&#8221;

Last week she has been quoted saying,&#8221;Uighurs have suffered for years under racial profiling and unjust government policies that have painted the entire Uighur population as criminals and terrorists.&#8221;

The Uyghurs are a Muslim minority community in China who have been fighting against the Hans Chinese (who have been dominating their community in the Xinjiang region). Rubiya Kadeer has been fighting for this community for long and have sought of the U.S. Government&#8217;s help to make the Chinese Government amend its suppressive policies against this community.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/rubiya-kadeer-and-the-chinese-riot-connection_100214251.html


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## BSF

> Can you please link us the source?
> 
> If the souce is AFP, then I don't trust it.



BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Scores killed in China protests


> Chinese government is secular..THE CCP Could care less about Religion and they treat people from all religions equally.This is China internal matter and i am sure they will solve it.


Too bad you do not think about India the same way.
Now tell me how is this incident any different from Godhra?
Kashmir is India's Internal issue and India will solve it

Anyway


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## aimarraul

you think i will give a damn about your indian's dirty play?


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## 2008nnd

(Urumchi city)Sinkiang was once an peaceful city . but now ,it's change! so many people were kill and attacked!



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## Jako

aimarraul said:


> you think i will give a damn about your indian's dirty play?



and you thought we would reply to your flame baits with more insulting comments?......no sorry, thank you


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*Aimarraul,

Please check your PM and stop the inflammatory and derogatory posts.

You are only making a fool of yourself - if you wish to respond to the arguments made here then do so rationally and with civility*

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## 2008nnd

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## 2008nnd

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## BSF

So some one please tell me how is this any different from Godhra riots in India?

==Edit==

Twitter is reporting that there is discrimination being shown in treatment of victims of the riots
==Edit==

==Off topic===

The Mosque shown in the pics posted...the architecture looks Turkish.
I have been to lot of Mosques back in India but they some how have a very different feel to the ones shown in the pic.





> Aimarraul,
> 
> Please check your PM and stop the inflammatory and derogatory posts.
> 
> You are only making a fool of yourself - if you wish to respond to the arguments made here then do so rationally and with civility



Thanks dear.

==Off topic==


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## 2008nnd

this musilim woman is the wire-pulling. she had eloped to USA!!




[/IMG]

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## Joshi

Patriot said:


> What are you talking about dude?We should support China.Next time you will say We love our Balochistan and it should be Independent.East Turkistan will always remain under China .People like you should take up guns and fight for your muslims brothers instead of blabbing here.We only have few friends and China is one of them..you want Pakistan to be a Banana Republic.



I think Coolyo is right here. 

It is the fundamental duty of Pakistan as being an Islamic Republic to support and save Muslims anywhere in the world. Recently 140 of them were killed in China. Pakistan would certainly be a banana republic if it does not stand up to its foundation of 'Save Islam and Muslims from Oppressors and Infidels'.

Millions of Muslims sacrificed their lives for the creation of Pakistan. Was it just that, Pakistan can sell itself to China, when China is actully killing Muslims?

Be a hypocrite in any sense. But, at least save the fundamental notion on which your country was founded. 

You talk about Palentine brothers, Kashimiri brothers, Chechyn brothers. Now if Uhighers are not your brothers, then don't tell me it's not hypocrisy.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

BSF said:


> Now tell me how is this incident any different from Godhra?
> Kashmir is India's Internal issue and India will solve it
> 
> Anyway



Please don't raise off topic issues in this thread.

A quick response on the kashmir part of your question - J&K is internationally recognized as disputed territory, and not part of India. It is disputed between India and Pakistan, and it is therefore not 'India's internal issue'.

This argument has been addressed countless times.

Back to topic please.

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## 2008nnd

BSF said:


> So some one please tell me how is this any different from Godhra riots in India?
> 
> ==Off topic===
> 
> The Mosque shown in the pics posted...the architecture looks Turkish.
> I have been to lot of Mosques back in India but they some how have a very different feel to the ones shown in the pic.
> 
> Thanks dear
> 
> ==Off topic==


hey sir, i just want to tell you .(The Mosque shown in the pics posted...the architecture looks Turkish.) because Urumchi a chinese musilim city.. Turkish is also a musilim country!! 



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## notsuperstitious

Such pictures od violence are heart wrenching. I hope this stops. We can all live happily together only if we want to. All these 'ideas' of separation are artificial.


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## aimarraul

Death toll in Xinjiang riot rises to 140
By Lei Xiaoxun, Cui Jia and Alexis Hooi (chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2009-07-06 16:30

URUMQI: At least 140 people were killed and 828 others injured in riots that erupted in the capital of the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region on Sunday night, officials said Monday.

Death toll in Xinjiang riot rises to 140

Fifty-seven bodies were retrieved from the streets of Urumqi, while the other victims were confirmed dead in hospitals, said Liu Yaohua, the regional police chief, at a press conference.

"Several hundred people" have been arrested in the attacks and police are still searching for about 90 other key suspects in the city, Liu said.

"Police have tightened security in downtown Urumqi and at key institutions such as power and natural gas facilities, as well as TV stations, to prevent large-scale riots.&#8221;

Checkpoints have also been set up in Urumqi's key locations as well in the neighboring Changji and Turpan prefectures, to prevent any suspected rioters from fleeing, Liu said.

Similarly, more than 100 officials from adjacent areas have been transferred to the regional capital to help interrogate the suspects according to law, he said.

Initial investigations showed that the unrest was masterminded by the World Uyghur Congress (WUR) led by Rebiya Kadeer, regional authorities said.

"The unrest is a pre-empted, organized violent crime. It is instigated and directed from abroad, and carried out by outlaws in the country," a government statement said early Monday.

The WUR had recently started instigating unrest via the Internet among other means, calling on the outlaws "to be braver" and "to do something big", the authorities said.

Nur Bekri, chairman of the Xinjiang regional government, said in a televised speech Monday morning that the movement followed a dispute broke out between Xinjiang workers and local people in a toy factory in Guangdong province on June 26.


Two Uygur workers were reportedly killed during the factory brawl, which was allegedly triggered by a sexual assault by a Uygur worker toward a Han female worker.

More than 100 members of the Han and Uygur ethnic groups were injured, local media has reported.

Nur Bekri said the brawl was used by some overseas opposition forces to instigate Sunday's unrest and undermine the ethnic unity and social stability in the autonomous region, with an aim to split the country.

"We should bear in mind that stability is to the greatest interest of all people in China, including the people in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region," he said.

"Last night's attack was brutal and violent," Li Zhi, the Party Secretary of Urumqi, said Monday.

Kadeer had also told her accomplices in Urumqi on July 4 that "something big" would happen there the next day and asked them to collect relevant information, Li said.

About 10 minutes of the footage of Sunday night's riot was shown at the press conferences.

Rioters vandalized and burned 203 local stores and 14 residential houses, while 260 vehicles, including two police vehicles and 190 buses, were also reportedly torched.

Hai Mina, 23, was at home and less than 200m away from the landmark International Bazaar square when violence erupted in the Xinjiang regional capital.

"I saw youths, aged 17, 18, no one older than their early 20s, setting upon men and women. They beat two men in their 50s and 30s, right in the open. Cars and vehicles were thrashed," she told China Daily on the phone of the attacks on Sunday.

Hai is of the ethnic Hui minority group and said her family is the only Hui in her neighborhood, made up predominantly of Uygur people.

She said the violence seemed to have gone down but she is still terrified of stepping out of the house, let alone return to her herbal medicine and scented flower shop in the square's popular shopping mall.

"I wasn't feeling well yesterday and things didn't seem too right as well in the evening. I went home at 6:30pm and my sister took over the shop. She came back about an hour later and then we heard about the violence at the square. The security forces arrived at the scene about 20 minutes after the violence broke out," Hai said.

"I could see everything, all the people being beaten, from my home. We have also heard of the burnings and attacks in the other parts of the city. We heard about the fighting in Guangdong province's Shaoguan city," she said. "They say something is happening or going to happen in the Ili Kazak region as well. "I don't think it's safe yet. I'm not going anywhere."

Xinhua contributed to the story


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

2008nnd said:


> [/IMG]



Do the Uighurs traditionally use the Arabic script (going by the KFC sign)?


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## 2008nnd

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*Okay, stop flooding the thread with pictures that are unrelated to the riots please.*


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## aimarraul

how many indian are living in URUMQI?zero.you have to twist the truth?


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## 2008nnd

The death toll has risen to 140 following Sunday night's riot in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, the regional government said Monday.
Fifty-seven dead bodies were retrieved from Urumqi's streets and lanes, while all the others were confirmed dead at hospitals, said Liu Yaohua, the region's police chief, at a press conference midday Monday.
He said the death toll would still be climbing.
At least 828 people were injured in the deadly violence that erupted Sunday night.
Rioters burned 261 motor vehicles, including 190 buses, at least 10 taxis and two police cars, said Liu.
Several vehicles were still seen ablaze on Urumqi's streets Monday morning, he said.
A preliminary investigation showed 203 shops and 14 homes were destroyed in the riot.
Police have arrested several hundreds in connection with the riot, including at least a dozen who were suspected of fanning the unrest, Liu said.
He said police are still searching for about 90 other key suspects in the city. "Police have tightened security in downtown Urumqi streets and at key institutions such as power and natural gas companies and TV stations to prevent large scale riots."
Checkpoints have been set up in Urumqi's key areas as well the neighboring Changji and Turpan prefectures to prevent the rioters from fleeing, Liu said.
He said more than 100 ethnic officials from adjacent areas have been transferred to Urumqi for interrogating the suspects.


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## 2008nnd

A NIGHTMARISH NIGHT 
According to police report, in the early hours on Sunday, the police department of Urumqi was tipped that information was spreading on Internet forums, calling for demonstrations at the People's Square and South Gate at 7 p.m. Sunday.
At 6:20 p.m., more than 100 people gathered at there. Violence began around 8 p.m., when some rioters started beating pedestrians and smash buses on Heping Road.
The violence soon spread to many other downtown areas.
Kadi Liya, a 23-year-old female Uygur, said she was returning home on No. 106 bus when her bus was smashed at around 7:30 p.m. at Shanxi Alley, with window glasses battered. She was beaten in the head by someone with a wood baton. She suffered slight cerebral concussion and is being treated in the regional People's Hospital.
Police said buildings in the residential compounds of the traffic police department and the taxation bureau in Tianshan District were severely scorched. "Some residents had to hide themselves in forests nearby and dared not to return home," a policeman said.
"It was like a war zone here, with many bodies of ethnic Han people lying on the road," said Huang Yabo, deputy director of the Urumqi Public Security Bureau.
Two workers of a scorched massage house on Yan'an Road were beaten to death. Fourteen people along the road said they were homeless.
A witness said an injured person was lying under the Tuanjie Road viaduct, bleeding, late Sunday night. On another street, a woman lay dead, with a bag on her back.
On Xinhua South Road, a sedan and a truck were overthrown. Their windows were smashed and doors deformed.
Rioters also set fire to a large hotel near the office building of the regional foreign trade department.


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## BSF

> The death toll has risen to 140 following Sunday night's riot in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, the regional government said Monday.



Also to remember that BBC is calling worse than Tienanmen square.

And the number of dead are only the official figures.

We all know how Chinese official figures work.!


> how many indian are living in URUMQI?zero.you have twist the truth?


You need to give up your obsession with Indians, dude.



> A quick response on the kashmir part of your question - J&K is internationally recognized as disputed territory, and not part of India. It is disputed between India and Pakistan, and it is therefore not 'India's internal issue'.


Okay.....lets not compare Kashmir..Lets compare it with Godhra

How is it any different from Godhra ?


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## 2008nnd

ORDER PARTIALLY RESTORED 
Traffic blockades were partially lifted Monday morning in parts of Urumqi, but tension still exists in the city.
With the exception of Yan'an Road, Tuanjie Road, a road near Xinjiang University, and Ningxiawan in the suburbs of Urumqi, blockades in downtown Urumqi have been removed.
Debris has been cleared from the roads and normal traffic has resumed. Workers are still pulling away damaged vehicles from the worst-affected roads in the city.
But most shops in areas where the violence occurred remained closed.
At a market on Guangming Road, only ten vegetables and fruit stalls opened Monday, compared with dozens on normal days. The market was usually crowded.
Li Guifang, a resident near the market, said they had heard the violence last night and few residents came to the market in the morning.
Armed police are patrolling streets that are still blockaded.
MASTERMIND BEHIND VIOLENCE 
Initial investigations showed the violence was masterminded by the separatist World Uyghur Congress led by Rebiya Kadeer, according to the regional government.
Rebiya Kadeer, a former businesswoman in China, was detained in1999 on charges of harming national security. She was released on bail on March 17, 2005 to seek medical treatment in the United States.
"The violence is a preempted, organized violent crime. It is instigated and directed from abroad, and carried out by outlaws in the country," a government statement said early Monday.
According to the government, the World Uyghur Congress has recently been instigating an unrest via the Internet, calling on supporters "to be braver" and "to do something big."
Nur Bekri, chairman of the Xinjiang regional government, said in a televised speech Monday morning that three forces of terrorism, separatism and extremism made use of a fight between Uygur and Han ethnic workers in a toy factory in Guangdong Province on June 26, in which two Uygur workers died, to create chaos.
The fight was triggered by the sexual assault of a female Han worker by a Uygur coworker, he said.
"We should bear in mind that stability is to the greatest interest of all people in China, including the 21 million-plus people from all ethnic groups in Xinjiang," he said.
Xinjiang, the far western autonomous region, is home to more than 10.96 million of ethnic minority people, including Uygur, Mongolian and Hui.


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## Jako

aimarraul said:


> how many indian are living in URUMQI?zero.you have to twist the truth?



i could'nt understand the motive of the post and whom it was pointed at.......please elaborate


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## aimarraul

you think india media will report the news of your frist threat without any bias?
your media got the original news from china,then twist it with their imagination &#65292;like their are living in Urumqi.check out the original news i posted,then compare with your copy one


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## 2008nnd

BSF said:


> Also to remember that BBC is calling worse than Tienanmen square.
> 
> And the number of dead are only the official figures.
> 
> We all know how Chinese official figures work.!
> 
> You need to give up your obsession with Indians, dude.



hey man ,I dont want to call your names ,but what you provocation words make me feel indignant. you take BBC ,CCN news to bring shame on china? all chinese know that BBC and CNN are anti-china media! if you said that, i can also said , the fact of Bombay explode affair is the indian muslem revolting against the indian goverment's persecuting . and the death of 195 was the indian official figures work, and slander,frame pakistan goverment!!


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## Jako

aimarraul said:


> you think india media will report the news of your frist threat without any bias?
> your media got the original news from china,then twist it with their imagination ,like their are living in Urumqi.



ok ,but how?.....you show me an article my indian by and where it contradicts with the truth.......if you cant,stop your hollow trolling......


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## BSF

> What are you talking about dude?We should support China.Next time you will say We love our Balochistan and it should be Independent.East Turkistan will always remain under China .People like you should take up guns and fight for your muslims brothers instead of blabbing here.We only have few friends and China is one of them..you want Pakistan to be a Banana Republic.


Had something of this nature had happened in India ..then there would be 100 and 1000 of thread on this forum bad mouthing India and telling how facist or how Hindu India is killing poor Muslims.

Now that this has happened in China..who is supposedly their best friend they want to turn a blind eye to them.
In spite of the ethnic cleansing done by the Chinese in that Xinjiang province 

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Scores killed in China protests

Its not hypocrisy ...its opportunism.
What say ?


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## 2008nnd

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> *Okay, stop flooding the thread with pictures that are unrelated to the riots please.*



sorry, pics just show the harmonious and peaceful city Urumchi used to be! but now it's change!


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## 2008nnd

and i was very disappointed and angry! when chinese official media and other news on chinese internect media show their sympathize on the death during the bombay's explode. and no chinese media twist and doubt 195 people were dead during that explode! but why some indian in this forum said"(*And the number of dead are only the official figures.We all know how Chinese official figures work*.!)" ???????


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## Jako

2008nnd said:


> and i was very disappointed and angry! when chinese official media and other news on chinese internect media show their sympathize on the death during the bombay's explode. and no chinese media twist and doubt 195 people were dead during that explode! but why some indian in this forum said"(*And the number of dead are only the official figures.We all know how Chinese official figures work*.!)" ???????



ignore the flame baits........thnx


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## Lockheed F-16

You all should keep in mind that China is our ally and friend and we will have to support them in anything they do, in anything!Do you think the BBC , CNN and the western world give a damn about the Uighurs? Boys, they were only searching for a reason to bash China , it doesn't matter if they are uighurs or Tibetians, the aim is to make China look bad. I am sure that the Pakistani people are with China and I am sure this case will soon be investigated. No doubt there is maybe some human rights violation but I can say without doubt that China still has better human rights record than many many other Asian countries or even America! God bless China and its people


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## notsuperstitious

BSF / Joshi,

Making such comments does not help. Yes, there's double standard, but those Pakistanis who understand the difficulties in running huge diverse countries like India / China / Russia surely would now understand India's challenges better and maybe appreciate India's democratic model better compared to China / Russia's. See we have only access to official chinese media, reasonable people will understand what that means.

And then there are those who see RAW and Mossad and the wiley Hindooo everywhere, dudes you can't convince them, trust me

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## cloyce

@Joshi & BSF

Wait to talk about ethnic cleasing. Chinese authority have confirmed 140 death, but have not metioned which etnicity. Since this riot started as a retaliation against Han etnicity, I expect much more deads on the han side.


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## BSF

> hey man ,I dont want to call your names ,but what you provocation words make me feel indignant. you take BBC ,CCN news to bring shame on china? all chinese know that BBC and CNN are anti-china media! if you said that, i can also said , the fact of Bombay explode affair is the indian muslem revolting against the indian goverment's persecuting . and the death of 195 was the indian official figures work, and slander,frame pakistan goverment!!


I'll tell you what, You give me names of any neutral media according to you.

Please do not give me the cctv and that English version of sohu or something like that.


Any news agency that you think is neutral and reliable.Untill then I will continue using BBC/CNN/ABC/Al Jazera 
Al Jazeera English - Asia-Pacific - Scores dead in Xinjiang riot


> Some of its Uighur population of about eight million want to break away from China and its majority Han Chinese population.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8135203.stm


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## Lockheed F-16

An Uighur beaten by Chinese police


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## BSF

> You all should keep in mind that China is our ally and friend and we will have to support them in anything they do, in anything!Do you think the BBC , CNN and the western world give a damn about the Uighurs? Boys, they were only searching for a reason to bash China , it doesn't matter if they are uighurs or Tibetians, the aim is to make China look bad. I am sure that the Pakistani people are with China and I am sure this case will soon be investigated. No doubt there is maybe some human rights violation but I can say without doubt that China still has better human rights record than many many other Asian countries or even America! God bless China and its people



But what about Muslim discrimination ?
You seem to be very vocal for your support to Indian Muslims,Godhra riots and Azad Kashmir ...then why not these Ughir Muslims ?

Hypocrisy ?


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## 2008nnd

Lockheed F-16 said:


> You all should keep in mind that China is our ally and friend and we will have to support them in anything they do, in anything!Do you think the BBC , CNN and the western world give a damn about the Uighurs? Boys, they were only searching for a reason to bash China , it doesn't matter if they are uighurs or Tibetians, the aim is to make China look bad. I am sure that the Pakistani people are with China and I am sure this case will soon be investigated. No doubt there is maybe some human rights violation but I can say without doubt that China still has better human rights record than many many other Asian countries or even America! God bless China and its people



thank you sir!! only our pakistan friend can understand us. some western media like BBC,CNN, they dont like communism,muslem,and some other arabia country . BBC ,CNN usually bash and bring shame on those country ,bias and twist the reality!! by the way, BBC and CNN have a reclame in china (man should not be lying likeCNN ) anyway ,CNN ,BBC are the anti-china media, because they dont like the communism, everything happened in china are all evilness&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;

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## 2008nnd

Lockheed F-16 said:


> An Uighur beaten by Chinese police



oooooooh man?? An Uighur beaten by Chinese police?? the pic show a hang chinese was beaten by the extreme muslem!


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## Jako

cloyce said:


> @Joshi & BSF
> 
> Wait to talk about ethnic cleasing. Chinese authority have confirmed 140 death, but have not metioned which etnicity. Since this riot started as a retaliation against Han etnicity, I expect much more deads on the han side.



its not about the ethnicity,its about the death of some innocent people........and above all they are chinese first not any han or muslim,so i dont understand the interference of any foreign players here....,..however i agree with joshi here,it is often seen that some small incidents in india regarding muslims end up creating huge stir within our pakistani friends here,and that is not done........you should treat both chinese and indian cases similarly


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## Lockheed F-16

BSF said:


> But what about Muslim discrimination ?
> You seem to be very vocal for your support to Indian Muslims,Godhra riots and Azad Kashmir ...then why not these Ughir Muslims ?
> 
> Hypocrisy ?



No, you don't really know me then.  In fact I don't give a damn abt Indian muslims. In this case, China is a special thing which has to be dealed speically bcz Wetsern World is biased and anti-China!

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## Lockheed F-16

2008nnd said:


> oooooooh man?? An Uighur beaten by Chinese police?? the pic show a hang chinese was beaten by the extreme muslem!



Oh sorry mate!*GERMAN MEDIA WAS TELLING THAT THIS IS AN UIGHUR  WESTERN PROPAGANDA*

Here is the proof that the media is talking BS, trust China!!!

Listen to Chinese media, they are 100&#37; more reliable than those lying rednecks in German media


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## Jako

Lockheed F-16 said:


> No, you don't really know me then.  In fact I don't give a damn abt Indian muslims. In this case, China is a special thing which has to be dealed speically bcz Wetsern World is biased and anti-China!



thanks,but i dont think other pakistanis think the way you do,there are numerous threads here to prove that in this forum itself...,..anyways,i appreciate your honesty.....regards


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## BSF

> @Joshi & BSF
> 
> Wait to talk about ethnic cleasing. Chinese authority have confirmed 140 death, but have not metioned which etnicity. Since this riot started as a retaliation against Han etnicity, I expect much more deads on the han side.



This matter is going to be brushed up under the carpet like the Tienanmen square incident and this will be the last we hear of it.

As of now it seems the Fire wall of china is up and filtering the internet and the 50 cents party is working over time.


===Off topic===
I think Zaid Hamid has got enough material for his next weeks "brass track" episode.


"RAW is trying to destabilize China,Just like it did it back in 1989 in Tienanmen square." Zaid Hamid

I love that female anchor with him who listens like she is understanding every word of it.Even parrots with him  "Ji ji ji"
===Off topic===


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## Jako

Lockheed F-16 said:


> Oh sorry mate!*GERMAN MEDIA WAS TELLING THAT THIS IS AN UIGHUR  WESTERN WORLD*
> 
> Here is the proof that the media is talking BS, trust China!!!
> 
> Listen to Chinese media, they are 100% more reliable than those lying rednecks in German media



you say that,yourself living in germany?!.....lolz.....kidding,never mind


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## 2008nnd

BSF said:


> I'll tell you what, You give me names of any neutral media according to you.
> 
> Please do not give me the cctv and that English version of sohu or something like that.
> 
> 
> Any news agency that you think is neutral and reliable.Untill then I will continue using BBC/CNN/ABC/Al Jazera
> Al Jazeera English - Asia-Pacific - Scores dead in Xinjiang riot
> 
> BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Scores killed in China protests



MOD EDIT: No insults are allowed. This rule is not subject to change no matter how angry you are.

why so blind faith on western media ,especial on the BBC. OKAY, As The authority ,neutral and reliable media-BBC report ,it's complete right TO rule ,colonize.and enslave the indian nation in history !!


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## notsuperstitious

> You all should keep in mind that China is our ally and friend and we will have to support them in anything they do.



Its nice when Pakistanis drop all pretence at ideology and talk simple business. Very practical and this worldly. Keep it up.


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## Jako

2008nnd said:


> you indian are the dog belong to Britain. why so blind faith on western media ,especial on the BBC. OKAY, As The authority ,neutral and reliable media-BBC report ,it's complete right TO rule ,colonize.and enslave the indian nation in history !!



dog??.....i thought you were different from the other chinese here!!!.....lolz,anyways carry on


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## 2008nnd

i dont want to abuse and offend indian, but what your indian bias learn from the western media make me indignation? why indian do not send their reporter to china to get the reality ,but get the twisted and bias news from those western anti-china media???


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## cloyce

Sorry, but I have to repeat a comment that I posted elsewhere in this forum.

Very short story of what happened before:

This street demonstration seems to be triggered by a vindictive assult against a group of uighur citizens accomplished by a group of han-chinese workers near a toy factory of the region.
Six uighur youth were accused by some han-chinese workers of having harassed and raped 2 ethnic han girl, but the local police didn't found any evidence of rape crime, so no action had been taken against those youth.

Now, here comes the tragedy... Some idiots among those chinese workers thought that they can make justice by themself so they organised a massive(~100) vindictive assult armed with iron rods where 2 young uighur were killed and over a hundred wounded. 
26/06/2009.

06/07/2009
Two weeks are passed, I've not followed the facts in the meantime, but I can presume that the police has not been able to identify the killers of those 2 uighur youth; so no death sentence has been made against any han workers. Otherwise a so violent retaliation would not be justified.

In the end, I think the above mentioned event is not the cause but only the trigger of the riots. 

Let's wait for more updates.

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## Lockheed F-16

Jako said:


> you say that,yourself living in germany?!.....lolz.....kidding,never mind



Dude, there was a time when they wrote BS abt India, talking abt Indians being the reason of lack of food in the world and so on, would you then trust them? In fact the most media here is biased only some papers tell the truth. I am not taking abt them bcz they talk bad abt China, but bcz they talk bad abt (South-) Asian Countries whole.


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## 2008nnd

Jako said:


> dog??.....i thought you were different from the other chinese here!!!.....lolz,anyways carry on



i have to said sorry to you sir! i dont want to make any offend on indian, but what BSF'word provoke me !

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## Jako

Lockheed F-16 said:


> Dude, there was a time when they wrote BS abt India, talking abt Indians being the reason of lack of food in the world and so on, would you then trust them? In fact the most media here is biased only some papers tell the truth. I am not taking abt them bcz they talk bad abt China, but bcz they talk bad abt (South-) Asian Countries whole.



i was joking yar,i know what you meant.....regards


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## cloyce

Another thing to keep in mind.

Chinese authority did not yet specified the entnicity of deads.

So, don't assume they are all uighur. 

And since this riot seems to be started as a retaliation against han chinese, it's very probable that, as the last time in Tibet, a lot of shop owners were died/wounded.


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## BSF

> Originally Posted by Lockheed F-16 View Post
> No, you don't really know me then. In fact I don't give a damn abt Indian muslims. In this case, China is a special thing which has to be dealed speically bcz Wetsern World is biased and anti-China!



I really appreciate your true and frank nature.At-least you are truthful in what you believe.Keep it up



> Oh sorry mate!GERMAN MEDIA WAS TELLING THAT THIS IS AN UIGHUR WESTERN PROPAGANDA



Could you be kind enough to some links to that. Both Chinese media and German Media.



> *you indian are the dog belong to Britain*. why so blind faith on western media ,especial on the BBC. OKAY, As The authority ,neutral and reliable media-BBC report ,it's complete right TO rule ,colonize.and enslave the indian nation in history !!



Abusive language and you called Indian and Pakistani's dogs of British.

I just asked you for Neutral links and this is how you replied.


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## Jako

cloyce said:


> Another thing to keep in mind.
> 
> Chinese authority did not yet specified the entnicity of deads.
> 
> So, don't assume they are all uighur.
> 
> And since this riot seems to be started as a retaliation against han chinese, it's very probable that, as the last time in Tibet, a lot of shop owners were died/wounded.





its not about the ethnicity,its about the death of some innocent people........and above all they are chinese first not any han or muslim,so i dont understand the interference of any foreign players here.........and this same attitude should be there for every country,even India!!!


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## 2008nnd

BSF said:


> I really appreciate your true and frank nature.At-least you are truthful in what you believe.Keep it up
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be kind enough to some links to that. Both Chinese media and German Media.
> 
> 
> 
> Abusive language and you called Indian and Pakistani's dogs of British.
> 
> I just asked you for Neutral links and this is how you replied.



sorry , i know it's no good to said any Abusive language here, but what your words are the defiance and lampoon!!


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## 2008nnd

Jako said:


> its not about the ethnicity,its about the death of some innocent people........and above all they are chinese first not any han or muslim,so i dont understand the interference of any foreign players here.........and this same attitude should be there for every country,even India!!!


hi jako , some muslem original from Urumchi(Sinkiang) want to split china ,to build a muslem country in Urumchi(Sinkiang) . those wire-puller collude foreign players to machinate the riot in Urumchi(Sinkiang)!!


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## Jako

2008nnd said:


> hi jako , some muslem original from Urumchi(Sinkiang) want to split china ,to build a muslem country in Urumchi(Sinkiang) . those wire-puller collude foreign players to machinate the riot in Urumchi(Sinkiang)!!



the only question that arises here is why?.....are they not happy to be chinese?......if so,why are they not willing to be a part of the fastest growing country of the world?


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## cloyce

@ BSF

A lot of things are changed since 1989.

At that time, policemen didn't even have sticks and shields, so the army was called in to restore order.

This time is different. The policemen do not have to shoot if not extremely necessary.

Anyway. The good news is the order has been partially restored. The situation is cooling down. Disappointed?


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## Jako

cloyce said:


> Disappointed?



why?....because some more innocent would be able to avoid death in the riots?.....nationality apart,theres one thing which is common to us-HUMANITY,which rertricts us to rejoice the death of some innocent!...regards

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## BSF

> At that time, policemen didn't even have sticks and shields, so the army was called in to restore order.


And they called tanks....And the army who has AK 56.

Sounds logical to me.
But the documentary proof and videos show other wise.


> Anyway. The good news is the order has been partially restored. The situation is cooling down. Disappointed?


Why would I be disappointed ?

I am happy that the massacre of the poor ughir muslims has come to a end finally.


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## 2008nnd

Jako said:


> the only question that arises here is why?.....are they not happy to be chinese?......if so,why are they not willing to be a part of the fastest growing country of the world?


i have to emphasize that, those mob are just a very small part of Uigur. many of country have the separatist force , Britain, Russia, and indian have! some small part of the Uigur want to build a so called muslem country! but those Uigur are not representative the whole muslem Uigur in china!!


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## Speeder

I think German media in general is more biased than BBC ( I do speak some German). Let me watch how BBC Newsnight reports this event tonight, and I'll keep your guys posted tomorrow. 

It seems to me that UK govt has changed its atittude towards China a bit since early this year, mainly due to this recession when UK has been licking China's boots for a while now for bailout money, hence BBC's official tone might have changed a bit also accordingly.


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## cloyce

Jako said:


> the only question that arises here is why?.....are they not happy to be chinese?......if so,why are they not willing to be a part of the fastest growing country of the world?



Because they are politicaly and economicaly marginalized. And in addition, they suffer the consequences of massive han-immigrants.

The political part is not that important since they do not have commanded for decades.

But, now they see all those han-chinese came to their lands, building infrastructure, opening shops, becaming rich ect... But all these economic developements benefits more han people than uighur people. So the social disparity between han and uighur have created ethnic tensions. This is why, now, you not only have groups of few uighur jihadist who try to make terrorist attack to China (like old days) but also discontent come from huge masses of uighur people.

Chinese businessmen can resolve this problem by not making discrimination during job hiring, but first they, uighur, must learn to speak mandarin! Actually, according to ifeng tv (a Hong Kong tv) the majority of schools in XinJiang do not teach mandarin!
The mandarin is the official language of People's Repubblic of China, you have to learn it if you want to find a job. It's not like we want to cancel thier culture of anything, me too, when I was child, I was forced to learn english even if thats not my native language, but you know, if you can speak english, you have higher chances to be hired.

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## Jako

cloyce said:


> Because they are politicaly and economicaly marginalized. And in addition, they suffer the consequences of massive han-immigrants.
> 
> The political part is not that important since they do not have commanded for decades.
> 
> But, now they see all those han-chinese came to their lands, building infrastructure, opening shops, becaming rich ect... But all these economic developements benefits more han people than uighur people. So the social disparity between han and uighur have created ethnic tensions. This is why, now, you not only have groups of few uighur jihadist who try to make terrorist attack to China (like old days) but also discontent come from huge masses of uighur people.
> 
> Chinese businessmen can resolve this problem by not making discrimination during job hiring, but first they, uighur, must learn to speak mandarin! Actually, according to ifeng tv (a Hong Kong tv) the majority of schools in XinJiang do not teach mandarin!
> The mandarin is the official language of People's Repubblic of China, you have to learn it if you want to find a job. It's not like we want to cancel thier culture of anything, me too, when I was child, I was forced to learn english even if thats not my native language, but you know, if you can speak english, you have higher chances to be hired.



thank you.....that was a very good imformative post


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## Joshi

cloyce said:


> Because they are politicaly and economicaly marginalized. And in addition, they suffer the consequences of massive han-immigrants.
> 
> The political part is not that important since they do not have commanded for decades.
> 
> But, now they see all those han-chinese came to their lands, building infrastructure, opening shops, becaming rich ect... But all these economic developements benefits more han people than uighur people. So the social disparity between han and uighur have created ethnic tensions. This is why, now, you not only have groups of few uighur jihadist who try to make terrorist attack to China (like old days) but also discontent come from huge masses of uighur people.
> 
> Chinese businessmen can resolve this problem by not making discrimination during job hiring, but first they, uighur, must learn to speak mandarin! Actually, according to ifeng tv (a Hong Kong tv) the majority of schools in XinJiang do not teach mandarin!
> The mandarin is the official language of People's Repubblic of China, you have to learn it if you want to find a job. It's not like we want to cancel thier culture of anything, me too, when I was child, I was forced to learn english even if thats not my native language, but you know, if you can speak english, you have higher chances to be hired.




Post of the day... Atleast someone has the guts to speak the truth...


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## BSF

> Originally Posted by cloyce View Post
> Because they are politicaly and economicaly marginalized. And in addition, they suffer the consequences of massive han-immigrants.
> 
> The political part is not that important since they do not have commanded for decades.
> 
> But, now they see all those han-chinese came to their lands, building infrastructure, opening shops, becaming rich ect... But all these economic developements benefits more han people than uighur people. So the social disparity between han and uighur have created ethnic tensions. This is why, now, you not only have groups of few uighur jihadist who try to make terrorist attack to China (like old days) but also discontent come from huge masses of uighur people.
> 
> Chinese businessmen can resolve this problem by not making discrimination during job hiring, but first they, uighur, must learn to speak mandarin! Actually, according to ifeng tv (a Hong Kong tv) the majority of schools in XinJiang do not teach mandarin!
> The mandarin is the official language of People's Repubblic of China, you have to learn it if you want to find a job. It's not like we want to cancel thier culture of anything, me too, when I was child, I was forced to learn english even if thats not my native language, but you know, if you can speak english, you have higher chances to be hired.


Appreciated.

So what is Pakisan's take in this regard, with the Muslims being oppressed and killed right now in China.


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## Speeder

@cloycy

I think you've made a mistake here. XinJiang is NOT their land, but more Han Chinese' land form historical point of view.

The ethnics in XinJiang started off by some nomad tribes such as Qiang, Xiongnu (hun), Kozaks, etc. *Han Chinese was alongst the first ethncis to settle there in history, with constant migration happened proir to 220 BC.* But mass migration of Han Chinese didn't occur until West Han Dynasty about 190 AD, when Han emporers defeated the nomads and started to promote this kind of Han settlements in the region. However, due to XinJiang's hash climate, it has never been a part of Han Chinese heartlands.

Uigurs originated in today's Tukey, thousands of miles away from XinJiang. How comes XinJing is their homeland, but not Han Chinese'??? *Turkic Uigurs didn't mass-migrate into today's XinJing until around Tang Dynasty - about 600-800 AD according to history!!!*

*Therefore it is a misnomer to say that XinJiang is Uigurs' native land. Han Chinese , alongside with Kosaks, Qiang, Hun and even Moguls are much more entitled to the land objectively speaking.*

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## cloyce

BSF said:


> Why would I be disappointed ?
> 
> I am happy that the massacre of the poor ughir muslims has come to a end finally.



Why are you mentioning only uighur muslin as poor innocents? Do you have any idea about who are the targets of these rioters?


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## BSF

From my little understanding and reading... Uighur Muslims are being targeted by PRC for holding a protest rally against the PRC.
The protest rally went bad when the police started shooting them,about 195 (NYT figures) ugihur Muslims died in those shooting, and in that anger the rest of the mob went on a rampage and burnt cars and buses.

What were you thinking?


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## Jako

Uighur exiles deny China riot claim

The protest was originally called after two Uighur workers died at a factory [AFP]

Uighur exiles have rejected Beijing's accusations that they organised riots in China's western Xinjiang province that left at least 140 people dead.

Chinese state media reported on Monday that thousands of people fought with police and set fire to vehicles in the city of Urumqi a day earlier after a protest against the government's handling of an industrial dispute turned violent.

"It is common practice for Beijing to blame outsiders for any problems in Xinjiang, as it does with problems in Tibet," Alim Seytoff, a spokesman for the World Uighur Congress pressure group, told Al Jazeera.

"The root cause of the problem is really the Chinese government's long-standing repressive policies," he said.

Local officials blamed Rebiya Kadeer, a Uighur businesswoman who was jailed for years in China before being released into exile in the US where she now heads the World Uighur Congress, for "masterminding" the unrest.

"Rebiya had phone conversations with people in China on July 5 in order to incite, and websites such as Uighurbiz.cn and Diyarim.com were used to orchestrate the incitement and spread of propaganda," said Nur Bekri, the governor of Xinjiang.

'Profound lesson'

Wang Lequan, the region's senior Communist Party official, said that Sunday's violence was "a profound lesson learned in blood".

"We must tear away Rebiya's mask and let the world see her true nature," he said.
The protest was originally called after two Uighur workers at a toy factory in southern China were killed in a clash with Han Chinese staff late last month.

"This began as a peaceful protest by young Uighurs," Seytoff said.

He said that the clashes broke out when armed police and armoured vehicles moved in to forcefully break up the demonstration, opening fire on protesters.

The clashes were the deadliest outbreak of ethnic unrest to take place in Xinjiang for several years.

About 800 people are thought to have been arrested in the wake of Sunday's clashes, with police reportedly raiding university dormitories in the hunt for others who they believe organised the protest.

The Xinhua news agency said that the situation in the city was "under control" on Monday, with a nighttime curfew imposed and paramilitary police out in force.

'Powerful measures'

Local residents also reported that internet and mobile phone connections in Urumqi were unavilable - a shutdown that is becoming standard practice in areas of China hit by unrest.

"At present, the situation is still seriously complicated, Xinjiang will prevent the situation from spreading to other areas using the most powerful measures and methods and will safeguard regional stability," Nur Bekri said.

About 800 people were reportedly arrested after the unrest [Reuters/CCTV]
One local resident contacted by the Reuters news agency said Urumqi, situated 3,200km west of Beijing, was "basically under martial law".

Witnesses said the protests had spread to Kashgar, a second city in Xinjiang, on Monday afternoon.

A Uighur man told The Associated Press news agency that he was among more than 300 protesters who demonstrated outside the Id Kah Mosque before being surrounded by police, who asked them to calm down.

China has blamed ethnic separatists and Muslim extremists for stoking unrest in Xinjiang over the past decade.

But critics of Beijing say many Uighurs are angry at political, cultural and religious persecution as well as the apparent growing presence in the region of Han Chinese - China's main ethnic group.

Local Han Chinese told news agencies that they were the victims of much of the violence in Urumqi on Sunday
Al Jazeera English - Asia-Pacific - Uighur exiles deny China riot claim


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## SecularHumanist

Joshi said:


> I think Coolyo is right here.
> 
> It is the fundamental duty of Pakistan as being an Islamic Republic to support and save Muslims anywhere in the world. Recently 140 of them were killed in China. Pakistan would certainly be a banana republic if it does not stand up to its foundation of 'Save Islam and Muslims from Oppressors and Infidels'.
> 
> Millions of Muslims sacrificed their lives for the creation of Pakistan. Was it just that, Pakistan can sell itself to China, when China is actully killing Muslims?
> 
> Be a hypocrite in any sense. But, at least save the fundamental notion on which your country was founded.
> 
> You talk about Palentine brothers, Kashimiri brothers, Chechyn brothers. Now if Uhighers are not your brothers, then don't tell me it's not hypocrisy.



He would be right if Pakistan has the duty to look after all the muslims around the world. That is a big responsibility and Pakistan cannot take that. Besides, why should Pakistan take that? Pakistan has a responsibility towards its own citizens, which it needs to take care of. Getting involved in other countries internal matters is not what Pakistan can afford at the moment, especially with a country like China. Lets take care of the millions of problems we have and then bother about others.

The idea of Pakistan standing up for muslims all around the world sounds good, but it's really unrealistic and will hurt Pakistan more than anything. When Pakistan starts standing up for people that can contribute almost nothing to its own benefit, it will only hurt itself. Thats why I say that Pakistan needs to be selfish. There is nothing wrong with being a little selfish. In this particular case Pakistanis need to ask themselves if 'freeing East Turkistan' will benefit Pakistan more or having a good relationship with China. I think the answer is quite obvious. Put Pakistan's national interest before anything else.


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## Joshi

SecularHumanist said:


> He would be right if Pakistan has the duty to look after all the muslims around the world.



There was talk of providing arms to Palestine brothers against Israelis by some Pakistanis.



> That is a big responsibility and Pakistan cannot take that. Besides, why should Pakistan take that?



Because it has already taken that responsibility. Knock Knock. Who's this? Hey its me, Kashmir.



> Pakistan has a responsibility towards its own citizens, which it needs to take care of. Getting involved in other countries internal matters is not what Pakistan can afford at the moment.



That's what India has been saying to Pakistan for so long. But some Generals never understood. Some might me there to repeat the mistakes now again. And I wish they can understand this simple thing you said...

*



Pakistan has a responsibility towards its own citizens, which it needs to take care of. Getting involved in other countries internal matters is not what Pakistan can afford at the moment.

Click to expand...

*

Thankyou for showing maturity and understanding matters...


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## haawk

SecularHumanist said:


> He would be right if Pakistan has the duty to look after all the muslims around the world. That is a big responsibility and Pakistan cannot take that. Besides, why should Pakistan take that? Pakistan has a responsibility towards its own citizens, which it needs to take care of. Getting involved in other countries internal matters is not what Pakistan can afford at the moment, especially with a country like China. Lets take care of the millions of problems we have and then bother about others.
> 
> The idea of Pakistan standing up for muslims all around the world sounds good, but it's really unrealistic and will hurt Pakistan more than anything. When Pakistan starts standing up for people that can contribute almost nothing to its own benefit, it will only hurt itself. Thats why I say that Pakistan needs to be selfish. There is nothing wrong with being a little selfish. In this particular case Pakistanis need to ask themselves if 'freeing East Turkistan' will benefit Pakistan more or having a good relationship with China. I think the answer is quite obvious. Put Pakistan's national interest before anything else.



i would love to hear the same viz a viz india


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## BSF

> He would be right if Pakistan has the duty to look after all the muslims around the world. That is a big responsibility and Pakistan cannot take that. Besides, why should Pakistan take that? Pakistan has a responsibility towards its own citizens, which it needs to take care of. Getting involved in other countries internal matters is not what Pakistan can afford at the moment, especially with a country like China. Lets take care of the millions of problems we have and then bother about others.



Then you should also probably stop worry about rioting incidents like Godhra which also happen in India.
And also the the Kashmir Issue.

What say....?


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## tyagi

R.I.P to innocent people

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## SecularHumanist

BSF said:


> Then you should also probably stop worry about rioting incidents like Godhra which also happen in India.
> And also the the Kashmir Issue.
> 
> What say....?



I wouldn't put support for Kashmir in the same category as say support for East Turkistan. Godhra I can agree with, its not our business. However, there is nothing wrong with voicing a concern on what happens to muslims in India. Indians did the same about the Sikhs that had to leave the Swat areas recently.


This is ofcourse my own view and I think it will benefit Pakistan. But there is no doubt that a lot of Pakistanis will disagree with me. I think being pragmatic Pakistanis is better than being a country full of emotional muslims. Cheers

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## SinoIndusFriendship

Racially Uyghirs are more "mongoloid/ch1nkie" than "turkish", "white", "arab" or "indian/pak". However, is RACE more important that TERRORIST GENOCIDE against innocents??? This is not 'turkish' or 'uyghir' land that is being 'stolen' by 'han' as Chinese were here first. Yes, all those 56 ethnic groups are all Chinese. There is no such thing as a single ethnic group that represents Chinese people, and don't try your pathetic attempts at sowing division and discontent! 

A fellow poster has described it accurately. These 'turkish' tribes only started THEIR invasion in the since 600-800 AD, and the russians only last 150-200 years. So it is not that the Chinese are taken someone else's land, but they are only claiming what was ORIGINALLY taken from them! Get your facts straight!

Originally Posted by Speeder View Post
@cloycy

I think you've made a mistake here. XinJiang is NOT their land, but more Han Chinese' land form historical point of view.

The ethnics in XinJiang started off by some nomad tribes such as Qiang, Xiongnu (hun), Kozaks, etc. Han Chinese was alongst the first ethncis to settle there in history, with constant migration happened proir to 220 BC. But mass migration of Han Chinese didn't occur until West Han Dynasty about 190 AD, when Han emporers defeated the nomads and started to promote this kind of Han settlements in the region. However, due to XinJiang's hash climate, it has never been a part of Han Chinese heartlands.

Uigurs originated in today's Tukey, thousands of miles away from XinJiang. How comes XinJing is their homeland, but not Han Chinese'??? Turkic Uigurs didn't mass-migrate into today's XinJing until around Tang Dynasty - about 600-800 AD according to history!!!

Therefore it is a misnomer to say that XinJiang is Uigurs' native land. Han Chinese , alongside with Kosaks, Qiang, Hun and even Moguls are much more entitled to the land objectively speaking.

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## BSF

^^^^^^
All that copy paste must have made you tired.
I din't read it...Next time you might want to think of posting interesting lines and give the links so that we can follow them

Coming back to your post


> To our Nazi-Hindu "friends" wh*o show so much "humanitarian" "concern", please get your facts right. This was a terrorist attack instigated from USA (by terrorist granted asylum there).* The attackers were terrorists, the victims are innocents. See below for detailed account.




You contradict yourself.
You say attackers but the videos show mob violence



> This street demonstration seems to be triggered by a vindictive assult against a group of uighur citizens accomplished by a group of han-chinese workers near a toy factory of the region.
> Six uighur youth were accused by some han-chinese workers of having harassed and raped 2 ethnic han girl, but the local police didn't found any evidence of rape crime, so no action had been taken against those youth.



Al Jazeera English - Asia-Pacific - Uighur exiles deny China riot claim

So get off CCTV propaganda and read some real news before you flood this forum with use less posting


> I wouldn't put support for Kashmir in the same category as say support for East Turkistan.



Why and How?
Are the Ughir Muslim not muslims..are they not in the same continent.

Don't you have a border with China in that province?

Glad to know Godhra is being treated as an internal issue of India.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

Karma, nazi-hindu friends, Karma. 

Right now you are showing utter LACK of compassion for the bloodshed and beating of these innocent people. That is the seed of karma you are planting in your soul. If you continue to nurture it with a disregard for human suffering (yes, Chinese people are humans too!) this seed will grow and soon overshadow and devour your spirit.

Believe in karma. Have good thoughts and do good deeds and good will come to you. However, have evil selfish uncaring thoughts and commit/support evil deeds then evil will befall you.

However you believe in KARMA or not, your existence is still bound by Karma. Karma is like one's shadow, you cannot grab hold of it in your hands but it exists because the person exists.


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## A1Kaid

Dear Chinese Members and Chinese nation

I understand you love your country and wish to protect your country and fight for it's ambitions and unity. Though I must say to my great allies and genuine friends that I have a legitimate concern and disagreement with you on the issue of E. Turkistan or the Chinese name given to it "Xinjiang". 

I want to enlighten the fellow Chinese members on some history that I doubt their government would ever share with them.


In 1933 c.e. The Turkic Uyghurs with a political figure named Sabit Damolla declared independence and founded the Islamic Republic of East Turkistan. East Turkistan had formed an army in place, national institutions, and a national assembly (a legislative branch) after declaring independence.

In 1944 East Turkistan reaffirmed and re-declared it's independence as it struggled to get international recognition by members state who were hostile to any independent Muslim-Turkic states such as China, Russia, Iran, and Britain.


Two years later in 1946, the Chinese PLA invaded East Turkistan. The Chinese PLA where never there before or had any presence in East Turkistan. Chinese PLA eventually defeated the Turkic forces their, and captured and occupied the land from. The occupation today continues.


What is more disturbing is the Chinese have deliberately conducted Nuclear test in East Turkistan near civilian populations, causing the locals to have birth defects, genetic defects, diseases, radiation, and other dreadful pains.


What the Chinese must understand is the Uyghurs are not your people nor is East Turkistan your land it has never belonged to you, only on your state sponsored Communist maps (in regards to China) is East Turkistan truly considered an integral part of China.

Uyghurs are not Chinese or share Chinese heritage, they are a Turkic people who belong to the Turan not to the Chinese motherland. Their language is not Chinese they do not speak Mandarin or Cantonese they speak Turkic. Their culture is also different from yours. Let me reiterate, they are not your people and East Turkistan is not nor has ever been your land!

Today no Uyghur wishes to be apart of China, as a true Uyghur knows his ties and loyalties are with his Turkic and Muslim family. They are restricted to practice Islam freely, attend a Mosque freely, or to do their religious activities without Chinese government approval.


One final thing I would like to mention, is the Chinese are our dear strategic ally and friends, and as friends I strongly and respectfully disagree with you on "Xinjiang", East Turkistan being apart of China. It would be most beneficial to regional peace and security and mutually beneficial to our relationship that China set free East Turkistan.

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## A1Kaid

Something interesting to know. Erasing Turkic history. I must say changing the name of localities to erase their historical belonging and trace of the domestic populace is a page that is also in Israeli occupational policy on Gaza and West Bank.


"During the last half-century, the national and historical names of the cities, towns, mountains, rivers, and lakes in East Turkistan have been replaced with Chinese words as follows (the first names show Chinese replacements and the bold second ones are the national names of the towns): A Ke Su (*Aksu*), A Ke Tao (*Aktav*), A Er Tai (*Altay*), A Tu Shi (*Artu&#351;*), Ba Li Kuen (Ba Li Kuen), Yi Ning (*Gulca*), He Tian (*Hoten*), Ka Shi (*Qa&#351;ghar*), Fu Weng (*K&#246;ktoqay*), Ha Mi (*Kumul*), Tu Lu Fan (*Turpan*), Wu Lu Mu Qi (*Urumchi*), Wu Shi (*&#220;chturpan*), etc.

*Chinese government maintains the argument that there are no Turkic peoples in Xinjiang (East Turkistan), but several minorities such as the Uyghurs and Qazaqs who have been intermingled with Chinese in early history*. The history of this kind of official tendency is rather old in China and even goes back to the nationalist government of Kuomintang period. When several Chinese scholars have written articles based on similar claims, the national politician and scholar of East Turkistan, *Mehmet Emin Bughra, has sternly rejected their unscientific arguments*. One of the outstanding publications of that period is the book by Mehmet Emin Bugra, entitled "The Pen fight", published in 1944 (Urumchi)(3). The book includes several articles by the Chinese scholar Li Dong Fang who denies the essence of Turkic peoples in East Turkistan and the responses to them by Mehmet Emin Bughra."

Source: The Desperate Situation in East Turkestan and


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## BSF

self delete


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## SinoIndusFriendship

A1Kaid said:


> Dear Chinese Members and Chinese nation
> 
> I understand you love your country and wish to protect your country and fight for it's ambitions and unity. Though I must say to my great allies and genuine friends that I have a legitimate concern and disagreement with you on the issue of E. Turkistan or the Chinese name given to it "Xinjiang".
> 
> I want to enlighten the fellow Chinese members on some history that I doubt their government would ever share with them.
> 
> 
> In 1933 c.e. The Turkic Uyghurs with a political figure named Sabit Damolla declared independence and founded the Islamic Republic of East Turkistan. East Turkistan had formed an army in place, national institutions, and a national assembly (a legislative branch) after declaring independence.
> 
> In 1944 East Turkistan reaffirmed and re-declared it's independence as it struggled to get international recognition by members state who were hostile to any independent Muslim-Turkic states such as China, Russia, Iran, and Britain.
> 
> 
> Two years later in 1946, the Chinese PLA invaded East Turkistan. The Chinese PLA where never there before or had any presence in East Turkistan. Chinese PLA eventually defeated the Turkic forces their, and captured and occupied the land from. The occupation today continues.
> 
> 
> What is more disturbing is the Chinese have deliberately conducted Nuclear test in East Turkistan near civilian populations, causing the locals to have birth defects, genetic defects, diseases, radiation, and other dreadful pains.
> 
> 
> What the Chinese must understand is the Uyghurs are not your people nor is East Turkistan your land it has never belonged to you, only on your state sponsored Communist maps (in regards to China) is East Turkistan truly considered an integral part of China.
> 
> Uyghurs are not Chinese or share Chinese heritage, they are a Turkic people who belong to the Turan not to the Chinese motherland. Their language is not Chinese they do not speak Mandarin or Cantonese they speak Turkic. Their culture is also different from yours. Let me reiterate, they are not your people and East Turkistan is not nor has ever been your land!
> 
> Today no Uyghur wishes to be apart of China, as a true Uyghur knows his ties and loyalties are with his Turkic and Muslim family. They are restricted to practice Islam freely, attend a Mosque freely, or to do their religious activities without Chinese government approval.
> 
> 
> One final thing I would like to mention, is the Chinese are our dear strategic ally and friends, and as friends I strongly and respectfully disagree with you on "Xinjiang", East Turkistan being apart of China. It would be most beneficial to regional peace and security and mutually beneficial to our relationship that China set free East Turkistan.



Here you are severely wrong. The land was FIRST occupied by Chinese people, cultivated by Chinese people. It wasn't until the FOREIGN turkish invaders came and later the Czar Russia fought to take land. So you are wrong on all major important accounts.

Keep in mind that much of this part of the world was BUDDHIST before the 'invention' of Islam. That is why the Taliban destroyed and vandalized the ancient groettos of Buddhist carved in mountain-side. I support all people, but when FOREIGNERS or certain religions seek to destroy and STEAL what is NOT theirs that is problematic. 

The silk-road was CREATED AND DEVELOPED by ancient Chinese. The Chinese are the world's OLDEST CIVILIZATION bar none, and it is them who have spread to much of the world (including SE Asia, South America aboriginals, North America natives are all Chinese descendents). If the ANCIENT CHINESE PEOPLE ARE THE FIRST INHABITANTS, then how can they be "stealing" what is rightfully theirs???

I'm sorry, but here is where I draw the line with Fundamental Religions of all kinds. I have no bias as I have no affiliation with any particular religion while at the same time I am educated with respect to numerous "belief systems". 

THIS IS A TERRORIST GENOCIDE AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE. To bring religion or ethnicity to ignore this HEINOUS act is just bad taste.


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## PeacefulIndian

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Karma, nazi-hindu friends, Karma.
> 
> Right now you are showing utter LACK of compassion for the bloodshed and beating of these innocent people. That is the seed of karma you are planting in your soul. If you continue to nurture it with a disregard for human suffering (yes, Chinese people are humans too!) this seed will grow and soon overshadow and devour your spirit.
> 
> Believe in karma. Have good thoughts and do good deeds and good will come to you. However, have evil selfish uncaring thoughts and commit/support evil deeds then evil will befall you.
> 
> However you believe in KARMA or not, your existence is still bound by Karma. Karma is like one's shadow, you cannot grab hold of it in your hands but it exists because the person exists.



What an enlightening spiritual rant! Your emotional outburst at the Indian posters here is not justified, since no one here is actually supporting or enjoying the unfortunate incidents. Everyone is asking questions - and very relevant ones. 

Let me ask my set of it. 

1. Was it necessary for the police to use brutal force on a demonstration that was not so violent in its early stages? In other words, does the riot police actually know how to pacify a mob without inciting a violence? 

2. How would a 'terrorist' sitting in US influence a mob so much that the entire town goes on a burning spree? If at all the mastermind sits in US, how did he get success of such a magnitude?

3. why is China experiencing a wave of unrest in 2009? Does it have something to do with communism & its imperialistic policies? Have a look at this article - 
China seen facing wave of unrest in 2009 | U.S. | Reuters



> *"In 2009, Chinese society may face even more conflicts and clashes that will test even more the governing abilities of all levels of the Party and government."*



This warning was given in early January. And you are watching with your own eyes what is going on.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

A1Kaid said:


> Something interesting to know. Erasing Turkic history. I must say changing the name of localities to erase their historical belonging and trace of the domestic populace is a page that is also in Israeli occupational policy on Gaza and West Bank.
> 
> 
> "During the last half-century, the national and historical names of the cities, towns, mountains, rivers, and lakes in East Turkistan have been replaced with Chinese words as follows (the first names show Chinese replacements and the bold second ones are the national names of the towns): A Ke Su (*Aksu*), A Ke Tao (*Aktav*), A Er Tai (*Altay*), A Tu Shi (*Artu&#351;*), Ba Li Kuen (Ba Li Kuen), Yi Ning (*Gulca*), He Tian (*Hoten*), Ka Shi (*Qa&#351;ghar*), Fu Weng (*Köktoqay*), Ha Mi (*Kumul*), Tu Lu Fan (*Turpan*), Wu Lu Mu Qi (*Urumchi*), Wu Shi (*Üchturpan*), etc.
> 
> *Chinese government maintains the argument that there are no Turkic peoples in Xinjiang (East Turkistan), but several minorities such as the Uyghurs and Qazaqs who have been intermingled with Chinese in early history*. The history of this kind of official tendency is rather old in China and even goes back to the nationalist government of Kuomintang period. When several Chinese scholars have written articles based on similar claims, the national politician and scholar of East Turkistan, *Mehmet Emin Bughra, has sternly rejected their unscientific arguments*. One of the outstanding publications of that period is the book by Mehmet Emin Bugra, entitled "The Pen fight", published in 1944 (Urumchi)(3). The book includes several articles by the Chinese scholar Li Dong Fang who denies the essence of Turkic peoples in East Turkistan and the responses to them by Mehmet Emin Bughra."
> 
> Source: The Desperate Situation in East Turkestan and



Here is where you are wrong again. Different languages have different names for things. These Turkish people are more "CHINESE" than Turkish. Also, they are FOREIGNERS who invaded the land in the last millenium, thus their are FOREIGN. It is not different than Anglo-Saxons who invaded Australia and New Zealand. They gave Australia cities, towns, rivers, lakes, etc ENGLISH NAMES. Now that doesn't make it any more English or White land. 

And you do know that Chinese does not have a single language don't you??? It's just the ORIGINAL AND OLDEST LANGUAGE also happens to be most WIDESPREAD. Also, don't try to throw Islam/Arabic into the discussion as these are RELATIVELY VERY RECENT developments and thus are not "original". In fact Hoton and other ancient Chinese cities have been there LONG BEFORE any Muslim or "turkish/whitish" FOREIGN group arrived.

Also please do not distract from this issue here: A pre-meditated terrorist act is underway. This is a crime against humans. Simple as that. When you use religion to support such a heinous crime doesn't help anyone.


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## Ababeel

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Here you are severely wrong. The land was FIRST occupied by Chinese people, cultivated by Chinese people. It wasn't until the FOREIGN turkish invaders came and later the Czar Russia fought to take land. So you are wrong on all major important accounts.
> 
> Keep in mind that much of this part of the world was BUDDHIST before the 'invention' of Islam. That is why the Taliban destroyed and vandalized the ancient groettos of Buddhist carved in mountain-side. I support all people, but when FOREIGNERS or certain religions seek to destroy and STEAL what is NOT theirs that is problematic.
> 
> The silk-road was CREATED AND DEVELOPED by ancient Chinese. The Chinese are the world's OLDEST CIVILIZATION bar none, and it is them who have spread to much of the world (including SE Asia, South America aboriginals, North America natives are all Chinese descendents). If the ANCIENT CHINESE PEOPLE ARE THE FIRST INHABITANTS, then how can they be "stealing" what is rightfully theirs???
> 
> I'm sorry, but here is where I draw the line with Fundamental Religions of all kinds. I have no bias as I have no affiliation with any particular religion while at the same time I am educated with respect to numerous "belief systems".
> 
> THIS IS A TERRORIST GENOCIDE AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE. To bring religion or ethnicity to ignore this HEINOUS act is just bad taste.



When muslim army came to eastern Turkestan it was lead by Arab Commanders. Turks were there in there homeland at that time and not Hans.


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## A1Kaid

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Here you are severely wrong. The land was FIRST occupied by Chinese people, cultivated by Chinese people. It wasn't until the FOREIGN turkish invaders came and later the Czar Russia fought to take land. So you are wrong on all major important accounts.
> 
> Keep in mind that much of this part of the world was BUDDHIST before the 'invention' of Islam. That is why the Taliban destroyed and vandalized the ancient groettos of Buddhist carved in mountain-side. I support all people, but when FOREIGNERS or certain religions seek to destroy and STEAL what is NOT theirs that is problematic.
> 
> The silk-road was CREATED AND DEVELOPED by ancient Chinese. The Chinese are the world's OLDEST CIVILIZATION bar none, and it is them who have spread to much of the world (including SE Asia, South America aboriginals, North America natives are all Chinese descendents). If the ANCIENT CHINESE PEOPLE ARE THE FIRST INHABITANTS, then how can they be "stealing" what is rightfully theirs???
> 
> I'm sorry, but here is where I draw the line with Fundamental Religions of all kinds. I have no bias as I have no affiliation with any particular religion while at the same time I am educated with respect to numerous "belief systems".
> 
> THIS IS A TERRORIST GENOCIDE AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE. To bring religion or ethnicity to ignore this HEINOUS act is just bad taste.






> Here you are severely wrong. *The land was FIRST occupied by Chinese people*, cultivated by Chinese people. It wasn't until the FOREIGN turkish invaders came and later the Czar Russia fought to take land. So you are wrong on all major important accounts.



That is true according to Chinese state history...Let me inform you that Central Asia is the Turkic homeland Central Asia has always belongs to the Turks and East Turkistan is an integral part of Central Asia. The Turks have been there for thousands of years, they cultivated the land they raised the towns and gardens and civilization there. Your take on history is very uninformed and sketchy and how you assemble your historical events is bad as well.



> Keep in mind that much of this part of the world was BUDDHIST before the 'invention' of Islam.



Besides your offensive remark calling Islam an "invention", let me inform you that Islam began when the first man Adam decided to obey Allah. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh was the Final Prophet which completed the message of Allah that is known as Islam today (Islam simply means submission to Allah). Submission to Allah did not begin when The Prophet arrived, it began when Adam first obeyed God.




> "The silk-road was CREATED AND DEVELOPED by ancient Chinese. The Chinese are the world's OLDEST CIVILIZATION bar none, and it is them who have spread to much of the world (including SE Asia, South America aboriginals, North America natives are all Chinese descendents)."



Excuse me but wise up, the silk road is not an exclusive Chinese enterprise, the Silk road consisted of Arabs, Chinese, Turks, Persians, Indian Muslims (today Pakistanis) and more. It was a joint effort by the worlds civilizations. Also the Chinese are not the world's oldest civilization, historian strongly believe the Persians and Indus Valley Civilization (Modern Pakistan) are believed to be the cradle of civilization. Yes the Chinese have a very old civilization but the Chinese civilization developed a bit later according to more neutral sources.




> "THIS IS A TERRORIST GENOCIDE AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE. To bring religion or ethnicity to ignore this HEINOUS act is just bad taste. "



The Chinese have skillfully used the War on Terror event to really crack down on Uyghur freedom movements and label them such as terrorist. The fact is sure some may have committed crimes, but can you name more than one significant terrorist attack the Uyghurs have done against China, go ahead and try. I can give you countless accounts of Chinese persecution against the Uyghurs, including Nuclear testing, "Hannification", restricting religious rights and activities, police brutality, and more...

Quit your yapping about "TERRORIST GENOCIDE", you don't call what Mao Zedong did to the Chinese peasantry a genocide? Under his rule 15 million Chinese die. I highly doubt the Uyghurs have amounted to such terror lately...


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## SinoIndusFriendship

A1Kaid said:


> That is true according to Chinese state history...Let me inform you that Central Asia is the Turkic homeland Central Asia has always belongs to the Turks and East Turkistan is an integral part of Central Asia. The Turks have been there for thousands of years, they cultivated the land they raised the towns and gardens and civilization there. Your take on history is very uninformed and sketchy and how you assemble your historical events is bad as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Besides your offensive remark calling Islam an "invention", let me inform you that Islam began when the first man Adam decided to obey Allah. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh was the Final Prophet which completed the message of Allah that is known as Islam today (Islam simply means submission to Allah). Submission to Allah did not begin when The Prophet arrived, it began when Adam first obeyed God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse me but wise up, the silk road is not an exclusive Chinese enterprise, the Silk road consisted of Arabs, Chinese, Turks, Persians, Indian Muslims (today Pakistanis) and more. It was a joint effort by the worlds civilizations. Also the Chinese are not the world's oldest civilization, historian strongly believe the Persians and Indus Valley Civilization (Modern Pakistan) are believed to be the cradle of civilization. Yes the Chinese have a very old civilization but the Chinese civilization developed a bit later according to more neutral sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Chinese have skillfully used the War on Terror event to really crack down on Uyghur freedom movements and label them such as terrorist. The fact is sure some may have committed crimes, but can you name more than one significant terrorist attack the Uyghurs have done against China, go ahead and try. I can give you countless accounts of Chinese persecution against the Uyghurs, including Nuclear testing, "Hannification", restricting religious rights and activities, police brutality, and more...
> 
> Quit your yapping about "TERRORIST GENOCIDE", you don't call what Mao Zedong did to the Chinese peasantry a genocide? Under his rule 15 million Chinese die. I highly doubt the Uyghurs have amounted to such terror lately...



Wrong again. Indus valley is a modern civilisation by comparison. Also "Turkish" refers to their origin TURKEY in EUROPE. Now, how can they be the original inhabitants when they only ARRIVED a thousand years or so ago??? 

Keep to the humanitarian issue. Did you bother to look at the photos of the carnage and victims? Does that not bother you? Your Taliban issue is not as gruesome (yet) but you still don't understand the problem with evil deeds?


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## A1Kaid

I would like to reaffirm the Chinese are a special civilization and they are our strategic partners, but unlike some Pakistanis I refuse to put my head in the sand and ignore the East Turkistan issue. 

The Chinese are our time tested friends, and both of our civilizations must discuss this issue. We are both a civilized people and we must discuss and negotiate peacefully, and we must resolve this regional issue. The Turks, Pakistanis, and Chinese must together solve this issue, because the current path is counter-productive to the peace and harmony all of our civilizations wish to pursue.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

A1Kaid said:


> I would like to reaffirm the Chinese are a special civilization and they are our strategic partners, but unlike some Pakistanis I refuse to put my head in the sand and ignore the East Turkistan issue.
> 
> The Chinese are our time tested friends, and both of our civilizations must discuss this issue. We are both a civilized people and we must discuss and negotiate peacefully, and we must resolve this regional issue. The Turks, Pakistanis, and Chinese must together solve this issue, because the current path is counter-productive to the peace and harmony all of our civilizations wish to pursue.



You already have your head in the sand since you have never been to China to see for yourself. The Uighurs look more Chinese than Turkish/European, more than Afghan/white, more than Pak/Indian. In fact they would be classified as MONGOLOID by most citizens in Pakistan and India. 

Now if most Pakistani tribesman and Indian tribesman and Arab tribesman and Turkish/European tribesman can't tell most Uighurs from Mongol from Han from Tibetan ethnicities ---- what does that tell you? Just like most people can't distinguish Pak from Hindu, shows you how racially similar they are.

This is an evil PRE-MEDITATED terrorist attack (which by nature is NOT peaceful protest). LOOK FOR YOURSELF!


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## cloyce

@ Speeder

I really don't care about historical claim. Territorial ownership is more or less like market share of nowadays. Weak countries loose territories while strong countries gain them. Countries' boundaries have changed so many times in history, it's hard to say which territory belongs to who.

The most important thing is the people who live in their own land, if you can bring wealth and social stability to the people, you can legittimate your authority. 
Now, in the XinJiang region, han-chinese enterprises are bringing modernity to the people right now. The problem is the distribution of the benefits that modernity have brought among the people. 
I think sooner or later, the uighurs will adapt themself if they want to share the benefits. Chinese law does not discriminate any minority, it gives equal economic opportunities to everyone.


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## xebex

2008nnd said:


> china have no any anti-muslim policy! and *give more right to the muslim than the hang chinese*! when i a see so many countryman were attacked and killed by musilim, i was so so so so angry, i cant help to stop my tears. why ! 140 hang chinese were dead, more than 800was badly wood! why , !!



whatttt?...sounds like religious discrimination right there.


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## A1Kaid

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> You already have your head in the sand since you have never been to China to see for yourself. *The Uighurs look more Chinese than Turkish/European, more than Afghan/white, more than Pak/Indian. In fact they would be classified as MONGOLOID by most citizens in Pakistan and India.
> *
> Now if most Pakistani tribesman and Indian tribesman and Arab tribesman and Turkish/European tribesman can't tell most Uighurs from Mongol from Han from Tibetan ethnicities ---- what does that tell you? Just like most people can't distinguish Pak from Hindu, shows you how racially similar they are.
> 
> This is an evil PRE-MEDITATED terrorist attack (which by nature is NOT peaceful protest). LOOK FOR YOURSELF!




"The Uighurs look more Chinese than Turkish/European, more than Afghan/white, more than Pak/Indian. In fact they would be classified as MONGOLOID by most citizens in Pakistan and India."

 You don't know a thing about Turkic history, the Turks in Anatolia derive from Central Asia. The Turkic nation does not have to look exactly like the Turks in Anatolia. The Uyghurs look exactly like Central Asian Turks. Look at Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan all Muslim-Turkic states and the Uyghurs look just like their Turkic brethren. Are you seriously going to suggest that because Uyghurs don't look like Anatolian Turks that they are more Chinese than Turks...Very very foolish and very unscientific.

Their blood line is Turkic, their culture is Turkic, their language is Turkic, their names are Turkic, their religion is Islam, they are in their Central Asian homeland of Turan.


This will most likely be my last reply to you on this topic as I see your knowledge on history is very uninformed and sketchy and the way you assemble your historical events is very bad.

*V*


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## cloyce

@ A1Kaid

You seems to be a very frank and rational person. 

I really apprecciate you.


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## shravan

cloyce said:


> Now, in the * XinJiang region, han-chinese enterprises are bringing modernity to the people right now.* The problem is the distribution of the benefits that modernity have brought among the people.
> I think sooner or later, *the uighurs will adapt themself if they want to share the benefits.* Chinese* law does not discriminate any minority, *it gives equal economic opportunities to everyone.



?????? 

I am not able to understand the above sentence.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

cloyce said:


> @ Speeder
> 
> I really don't care about historical claim. Territorial ownership is more or less like market share of nowadays. Weak countries loose territories while strong countries gain them. Countries' boundaries have changed so many times in history, it's hard to say which territory belongs to who.
> 
> The most important thing is the people who live in their own land, if you can bring wealth and social stability to the people, you can legittimate your authority.
> Now, in the XinJiang region, han-chinese enterprises are bringing modernity to the people right now. The problem is the distribution of the benefits that modernity have brought among the people.
> I think sooner or later, the uighurs will adapt themself if they want to share the benefits. Chinese law does not discriminate any minority, it gives equal economic opportunities everyone (maybe politicaly is a bit different..).



Actually the law favours minorities. That's why many Chinese claim minority status to get educational, family-planning, and financial assistance. Secondly, there is a reason why it is called 56-ethnic groups and not 56-racial groups, because the genetic difference is minute and thus the grouping is made on language/religion/customs/etc. There's ethnic and racial groups in ALL nations of the world today. You can't find a single country that consists of a single racial group, much less a ethnic group.

Get with it. This is a multi-ethnic, multi-racial world. Pakistan has 5 different ethnic groups, some look like they belong in Delhi, others like Dalits, others like Iranian, others like Afghan, others like a mixed-Euro-blood. If each of these ethnic groups seek to expand and seek "independence".... actually this is happening. Iran and Pak and India and even Afghan has similar seccessionist movements.

USA has similar movements with Lakota nation, African-Americans, Asians, Latinos and Mexicanos who wan't seccession. Europe is even worse off. Now imagine the 10-15% of the ethnic minorities claim part of Europe as their own nation? 

So the US by harboring and supporting the maddam who is inciting and co-orchestrating these terrorist attacks, they hold partial blame. Do you know the racial disparity is more severe in US and Europe than in China? That is the nasty nature of karma, by fanning hatred around the world (recently in Iran and now China) --- how long do you think similar uprisings will occur in US, Europe, Australia?


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## vandemataram

Speeder said:


> @cloycy
> 
> I think you've made a mistake here. XinJiang is NOT their land, but more Han Chinese' land form historical point of view.
> 
> The ethnics in XinJiang started off by some nomad tribes such as Qiang, Xiongnu (hun), Kozaks, etc. *Han Chinese was alongst the first ethncis to settle there in history, with constant migration happened proir to 220 BC.* But mass migration of Han Chinese didn't occur until West Han Dynasty about 190 AD, when Han emporers defeated the nomads and started to promote this kind of Han settlements in the region. However, due to XinJiang's hash climate, it has never been a part of Han Chinese heartlands.
> 
> Uigurs originated in today's Tukey, thousands of miles away from XinJiang. How comes XinJing is their homeland, but not Han Chinese'??? *Turkic Uigurs didn't mass-migrate into today's XinJing until around Tang Dynasty - about 600-800 AD according to history!!!*
> 
> *Therefore it is a misnomer to say that XinJiang is Uigurs' native land. Han Chinese , alongside with Kosaks, Qiang, Hun and even Moguls are much more entitled to the land objectively speaking.*




Hey...I never could contemplate that there is so much of hypocrisy around...

This is particularly for the Pakistanis (who support China for Strategic reasons and Muslims the world over for well known reasons)..

I do not understand that from the historical view point of all Pakistanis who give upon themselves the great right of protecting fellowmen and women of the Ummah suddenly comes to appreciate and brush aside these riots/incidents as internal matter to the Chinese...

I am amazed and apalled by this double sided ideology...Where are the Muslim emancipators, who treat any thing and everything related to Islam as common to them no matter which country they belong to .....

I understand that may be the forum projects something, but I do nt think and for that matter no rational person thinks that 

"Overall the Paksitanis do not morally support the Uighur Movement"

And let me tell you , if they want autonomy or independence it means there is something grossly wrong in the scheme of things there..

It is and has always been economic hardships that leads to movements like this...

And as an Indian I do not have any qualms in accepting that J&K, and the 7 NE Sisters in India have been subjected to Economic opression over the last decades. they do not have anything to call their own...

And so is the similar case of the Uighurs, of course apart from the fact that they are Muslims and are well versed with the ideology of the Ummat E Muslima and they are striving to reach tat goal.

Whatever the Chinese media says needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. I shall not be surprised if the Hans are upto do an ethenic cleansing in the Uighur.

Like the way they did over the last decades to integrate the Hans in the TAR....everybody knows this and there is no need to bull $hit abt western or Anti China media reports...


And aha....here is a person who says that they are immigrants, accepted ....

So do I dare say that the Muslims are an import into the Indian Subcontinent ...so this should be fair and square now....that they also do not belong to the Subcontinent??

What say ?? Bin Sam and Ikhtiyar uddin Muhhamad Khalji in Bengal ..what say friends ....So Muslims belongng to the Indian Sub continent is a Misnomer ???

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## notsuperstitious

> You don't know a thing about Turkic history, the Turks in Anatolia derive from Central Asia. The Turkic nation does not have to look exactly like the Turks in Anatolia. The Uyghurs look exactly like Central Asian Turks. Look at Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan all Muslim-Turkic states and the Uyghurs look just like their Turkic brethren. Are you seriously going to suggest that because Uyghurs don't look like Anatolian Turks that they are more Chinese than Turks...Very very foolish and very unscientific.



Absolutely, Turkic people are from central asia and NOT modern Turkey as SIF is suggesting.


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## BSF

> Absolutely, Turkic people are from central asia and NOT modern Turkey as SIF is suggesting.


So where are the Turkish people from ?
Sino Indus friendship please tell us where are the Turkish people from ?


> @ A1Kaid
> 
> You seems to be a very frank and rational person.
> 
> I really apprecciate you.


I second that.!


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## SinoIndusFriendship

A1Kaid said:


> "The Uighurs look more Chinese than Turkish/European, more than Afghan/white, more than Pak/Indian. In fact they would be classified as MONGOLOID by most citizens in Pakistan and India."
> 
> You don't know a thing about Turkic history, the Turks in Anatolia derive from Central Asia. The Turkic nation does not have to look exactly like the Turks in Anatolia. The Uyghurs look exactly like Central Asian Turks. Look at Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan all Muslim-Turkic states and the Uyghurs look just like their Turkic brethren. Are you seriously going to suggest that because Uyghurs don't look like Anatolian Turks that they are more Chinese than Turks...Very very foolish and very unscientific.
> 
> Their blood line is Turkic, their culture is Turkic, their language is Turkic, their names are Turkic, their religion is Islam, they are in their Central Asian homeland of Turan.
> 
> 
> This will most likely be my last reply to you on this topic as I see your knowledge on history is very uninformed and sketchy and they way to assembly your historical events is very bad.
> 
> *V*



Look at the first photo with the old Uyghir gentleman with the animal fur hat, does he look more turkish or chinese? Look at the photo carefully. In fact if I didn't tell you he was Uyghir you'd wouldn't have guessed right. 

Look at the photo of the president of the Uyghur congress in the USA, besides the nose shaped differently the eyes, mouth, head is more "mongoloid". I'm sorry but you don't know your history. You are right that many of the central states look like Uyghirs. Did you see their presidents at the SCO meeting??? All look mongloid and mongoloid-mix except for Russia and one other nation. What does that tell you? 

And if the photo you have beside your name, he looks more European White than Indian Dravidian.


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## Kasrkin

Closed for moderation


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## Kasrkin

Some of the members have made a fine mess of this thread. Too many low quality posts and I would've deleted the thread if at least some civilized discourse had not taken place. It is possible that bans will be handed out. 

Firstly, I would urge you all to stick to the issue. Arguments about insurrections in India or Pakistan's attitude is not really part of this debate. We should all refrain from these primitive knee-jerk reactions and talk about the issue at hand. Some members have done this and discussed the reasons and dynamics behind this unrest. I would suggest they carry on, but everyone needs to keep a cool head and address the issue in an impersonal way. Sweeping remarks either way are not welcome and atleast some level of substantiation should be provided for contentions like 'the US is behind this'.

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## A1Kaid

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Look at the first photo with the old Uyghir gentleman with the animal fur hat, does he look more turkish or chinese? Look at the photo carefully. In fact if I didn't tell you he was Uyghir you'd wouldn't have guessed right.
> 
> Look at the photo of the president of the Uyghur congress in the USA, besides the nose shaped differently the eyes, mouth, head is more "mongoloid". I'm sorry but you don't know your history. You are right that many of the central states look like Uyghirs. Did you see their presidents at the SCO meeting??? All look mongloid and mongoloid-mix except for Russia and one other nation. What does that tell you?
> 
> And if the photo you have beside your name, he looks more European White than Indian Dravidian.





I really didn't want to reply to such ignorance, but one last time I will to clear the waters and make the record straight.


You know a lot of people also think Chinese and Japanese people look exactly the same. Your argument is so pathetic, your saying because Uyghurs "look more Chinese" than they do "Anatolian/European Turks" that the Uyghurs belong to China.

You are making the same foolish judgment, for example just because Chinese and Japanese look alike does not mean they are the same people, you cannot equate similar appearance with nationality nor historical linkage.

Also I already told you, "You don't know a thing about Turkic history, the Turks in Anatolia derive from Central Asia. The Turkic nation does not have to look exactly like the Turks in Anatolia. The Uyghurs look exactly like Central Asian Turks. *Look at Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan all Muslim-Turkic states and the Uyghurs look just like their Turkic brethren. Are you seriously going to suggest that because Uyghurs don't look like Anatolian Turks that they are more Chinese than Turks...Very very foolish and very unscientific.*"


Central Asian Turkic people do resemble the Mongoloid people to an extent because they are supposedly "cousin" races and ethnic groups though Turks and Mongols are respectfully their own people. This is scientific information and scientifically proven not solely my opinion.



*V*

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## Joe Shearer

Speeder said:


> @cloycy
> 
> I think you've made a mistake here. XinJiang is NOT their land, but more Han Chinese' land form historical point of view.
> 
> The ethnics in XinJiang started off by some nomad tribes such as Qiang, Xiongnu (hun), Kozaks, etc. *Han Chinese was alongst the first ethncis to settle there in history, with constant migration happened proir to 220 BC.* But mass migration of Han Chinese didn't occur until West Han Dynasty about 190 AD, when Han emporers defeated the nomads and started to promote this kind of Han settlements in the region. However, due to XinJiang's hash climate, it has never been a part of Han Chinese heartlands.
> 
> Uigurs originated in today's Tukey, thousands of miles away from XinJiang. How comes XinJing is their homeland, but not Han Chinese'??? *Turkic Uigurs didn't mass-migrate into today's XinJing until around Tang Dynasty - about 600-800 AD according to history!!!*
> 
> *Therefore it is a misnomer to say that XinJiang is Uigurs' native land. Han Chinese , alongside with Kosaks, Qiang, Hun and even Moguls are much more entitled to the land objectively speaking.*



Dear Sir,

Unfortunately, he is correct and your picture of the region's ethnicity is not. 

The Turkish tribes were originally from the region now occupied by the CIS states, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. However their first appearance in these regions was long after 220 BC.

What follows are taken from Chinese sources, which are the most accurate for these regions; they tie up beautifully with Indian literary references, and with Iranian references, especially in the much-later Shah Nama, but Chinese sources are always to be preferred, because they were given to recording annals long before anybody else in the region.

In 220 BC, the occupants of what is today called Xinjiang, and was historically called East Turkestan, were Caucasian/Indo-European people called the Tocharians. These Tocharians were blonde and red-haired, and wore tartans rather like those found in those times in Europe. Their mummies are to be seen to this day in their former settlements in Xinjiang, and are preserved by the government. 

They were ruled by five clans, of which one was the Moon Clan; in Chinese, they were called the Yueh-Chi. The Yueh-Chi were hit hard in successive waves some hundred or hundred and fifty years apart by a barbarian Mongolian or proto-Mongolian tribe called the Hiung-nu, who first inflcted heavy casualties on the nascent Chinese states, and were then sent back in headlong defeat. The Hiung-nu in their retreat fell upon their western neighbours, the Yueh-Chi ruled Tochar, and the Tochar were defeated in battle. There are records that the Hiung-nu chief made a drinking cup of the defeated Yueh-chi king's skull. As you will gather, the Hiung-nu were uncomfortable neighbours to have. One branch of the Tochar stayed on in the region, as refugees, the main branch went on westward seeking shelter from the unceasing attacks of the Hiung-nu. There in the CIS states region, which cover the famous horse-breeding valley of Ferghana, present day Balkh, Samarkand, Bokhara and legendary cities such as these (not existent in that day and age), they encountered the Persian-speaking Scythian tribes, horse-riders in the steppes, and drove them west and south. The Scythians penetrated the lands now known as Afghanistan, wore down the last Indo-Bactrian/Indo-Greek kingdoms which were successors of Seleucus' empire, and ruled there for two or three generations. They are frequently mentioned in the company of the Pahlavas, a Parthian tribe.

Without taking you through the minute details, please learn that at the time that you are speaking of, the Xinjiang region was populated by the remnants of the Tocharians, and the incoming Hiung-nu.

Some considerable period later, Turkish tribes started appearing in the region. Nobody is absolutely certain where they came from, but the most informed opinion is that they were probably migrants southwards from Siberia. A branch of these fierce and war-like nomads were converted to Islam - I am skipping forward by around five centuries, and even later, as the Seljuk Turks, they swept into the area of the Khilafat and overthrew the Khilafat of the day. 

You are correct in stating that the present Uighur residents probably entered Xinjiang, while most of their kinsfolk went west and south, roughly in the 600 to 800 AD time period. Chinese records indicate that the early encounters with the Turks were during the 4th and 5th centuries, during the 16 kingdoms period, after the Hiung-nu had captured and executed the last two Jin emperors. However, there were absolutely no Han Chinese in Eastern Turkestan at that time, although there had been military expeditions, some successful, some not. You will be interested to note that it is during the reign of Emperor Yong Le, of the Ming Dynasty, that records indicate that the Emperor gained influence over Eastern Turkestan. That should give you a hint regarding the relative precedence of Uighur and Han; there are a few years, as I am sure you know, between the Tang and the Ming (about 750 years, if we go by the annals). And this was not inhabitation; only an acquisition of influence. 

As it is 01:00 HRS and it has been a long day, I beg that you will temporarily excuse me from putting in precise dates and details. Since you appear to be in Britain, a cursory examination of an encyclopaedia in your local library will give you further details if you need them, otherwise if you wish, it will be possible to post details both of the dates as commonly recorded, and of the Chinese sources, as well as other Arabic and Iranian sources, not to mention Byzantine sources; the Seljuk Turks found themselves in conflict with the eastern Roman empire. 

It was at this point of time that the Seljuks, following in the footsteps of their predecessor Arabs, entered the region known historically as Anatolia, and with their settling down there in large numbers, caused the land to be known as Turkey. This was the first incursion of Turks into the land; the second, more permanent one was the Ottoman Turkish incursion.

I hope that this will settle your doubts. At the times that you speak of, 220 BC, China had just been unified by Emperor Qin Shih Huang Ti; even earlier, however, a northern Chinese predecessor kingdom had sent an expedition to find out the lie of the land in these regions, and our most accurate information is from the records of this expedition and its leader's report to his monarch. 

The same Chinese records make it clear that Han Chinese started living here in numbers only from very recent centuries onwards - I hesitate to say precisely when since I have noticed that this seems to be a sensitive matter - not earlier.

As mentioned before, more details are available if you consult standard references. I beg that you will do so, and complete your homework, before posting in future, as a courtesy to all forum members. This is not intended to hurt your feelings, please be sure; just to remind you that references to historical events are not to be made lightly.

Please be sure to send me a personal message if you need more information, but be aware that I am able to check my mail and log in only infrequently, twice or thrice a week in good weeks, because of my location and the vicissitudes of my job.

Sincerely,

'Joe S.'

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## SinoIndusFriendship

A1Kaid said:


> I really didn't want to reply to such ignorance, but one last time I will to clear the waters and make the record straight.
> 
> 
> You know a lot of people also think Chinese and Japanese people look exactly the same. Your argument is so pathetic, your saying because Uyghurs "look more Chinese" than they do "Anatolian/European Turks" that the Uyghurs belong to China.
> 
> You are making the same foolish judgment, for example just because Chinese and Japanese look alike does not mean they are the same people, you cannot equate similar appearance with nationality nor historical linkage.
> 
> Also I already told you, "You don't know a thing about Turkic history, the Turks in Anatolia derive from Central Asia. The Turkic nation does not have to look exactly like the Turks in Anatolia. The Uyghurs look exactly like Central Asian Turks. *Look at Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan all Muslim-Turkic states and the Uyghurs look just like their Turkic brethren. Are you seriously going to suggest that because Uyghurs don't look like Anatolian Turks that they are more Chinese than Turks...Very very foolish and very unscientific.*"
> 
> 
> Central Asian Turkic people do resemble the Mongoloid people to an extent because they are supposedly "cousin" races and ethnic groups though Turks and Mongols are respectfully their own people. This is scientific information and scientifically proven not solely my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> *V*



It is you who are making the argument of looks the same with same Turkic language and "islam" to claim all of Xinjiang. Also there are minority "Mongoloid" Chinese people in these central "turkic" asian nations that have ancestors who lived there for thousand+ years as well --- do you see China claiming central asia? NO.

Also you are contradicting yourself. One one hand you claim similar appearance as commonality to nationality and historical linkage. But on the other hand you discredit it when it doesn't suit your needs. Sorry you can't have it both ways!

You do know the Japanese are ancestral offspring of Chinese people who migrated there over time, didn't you? I hope you don't believe they just magically happened to always 'be there'. This is both a historical and genetic/scientific fact. Culturally, racially, linguistically they are derived from Chinese. 

And the region of central Asian nations is a MIXED REGION. Get over it! No single "pure" group there exists. They are a mix of Sino+Euro+Indian+Persian/Arab. 

Just like Pakistan is also a multi-ethnic country, with the majority being similar to Indian in genetics. But in many tribal areas of Bolochistan and SWAT they are the minority. THIS IS NOT A ISLAM ISSUE. THIS IS A PRE-MEDITATED TERROR ATTACK. The Taliban and Bolochistan separatists are also moslem, why does pakistan government want to eradicate them? Because they are a separatist group which uses terrorism as their mode of operation. Please don't speak with forked tongues!


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## Gabriel

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> THIS IS NOT A ISLAM ISSUE.



I'm glad someone said it , because i thought the title of the tread was misleading.


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## cloyce

@shravan

Bringing modernity means building modern infrastructure like better transportation, elettricity, water depuration, better healthcare, better education ect..


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## Joe Shearer

vandemataram said:


> Hey...I never could contemplate that there is so much of hypocrisy around...
> 
> This is particularly for the Pakistanis (who support China for Strategic reasons and Muslims the world over for well known reasons)..
> 
> I do not understand that from the historical view point of all Pakistanis who give upon themselves the great right of protecting fellowmen and women of the Ummah suddenly comes to appreciate and brush aside these riots/incidents as internal matter to the Chinese...
> 
> I am amazed and apalled by this double sided ideology...Where are the Muslim emancipators, who treat any thing and everything related to Islam as common to them no matter which country they belong to .....
> 
> I understand that may be the forum projects something, but I do nt think and for that matter no rational person thinks that
> 
> "Overall the Paksitanis do not morally support the Uighur Movement"
> 
> And let me tell you , if they want autonomy or independence it means there is something grossly wrong in the scheme of things there..
> 
> It is and has always been economic hardships that leads to movements like this...
> 
> And as an Indian I do not have any qualms in accepting that J&K, and the 7 NE Sisters in India have been subjected to Economic opression over the last decades. they do not have anything to call their own...
> 
> And so is the similar case of the Uighurs, of course apart from the fact that they are Muslims and are well versed with the ideology of the Ummat E Muslima and they are striving to reach tat goal.
> 
> Whatever the Chinese media says needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. I shall not be surprised if the Hans are upto do an ethenic cleansing in the Uighur.
> 
> Like the way they did over the last decades to integrate the Hans in the TAR....everybody knows this and there is no need to bull $hit abt western or Anti China media reports...
> 
> 
> And aha....here is a person who says that they are immigrants, accepted ....
> 
> So do I dare say that the Muslims are an import into the Indian Subcontinent ...so this should be fair and square now....that they also do not belong to the Subcontinent??
> 
> What say ?? Bin Sam and Ikhtiyar uddin Muhhamad Khalji in Bengal ..what say friends ....So Muslims belongng to the Indian Sub continent is a Misnomer ???



Dear Sir,

Of course you are at liberty to say whatever you please. 

However, as a loyal and patriotic Indian, permit me to say that I did not appreciate your post. Whatever the requirements of scoring points off the Pakistanis who have offended you, it is unseemly to question the antecedents of our fellow-citizens who happen to be Muslim, or to ask them to keep proving their loyalty. Please do not wash dirty linen in public; the confession which gave us Air Chief Marshal I. H. Latif, Major General Afsar Karim, above all, Abdul Hamid, who proved his valour, his honour and his loyalty with his life, does not owe any explanations to any one, least of all to pontificating windbags who are unlikely to have heard a shot fired in anger in their lives.

I consider therefore that I am at liberty to say that I am deeply upset and offended at your post, and protest against it. It is a matter of some regret to me that the administrators have allowed this statement to be posted.

'Joe S.'

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## cloyce

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Actually the law favours minorities. That's why many Chinese claim minority status to get educational, family-planning, and financial assistance. Secondly, there is a reason why it is called 56-ethnic groups and not 56-racial groups, because the genetic difference is minute and thus the grouping is made on language/religion/customs/etc. There's ethnic and racial groups in ALL nations of the world today. You can't find a single country that consists of a single racial group, much less a ethnic group.
> 
> Get with it. This is a multi-ethnic, multi-racial world. Pakistan has 5 different ethnic groups, some look like they belong in Delhi, others like Dalits, others like Iranian, others like Afghan, others like a mixed-Euro-blood. If each of these ethnic groups seek to expand and seek "independence".... actually this is happening. Iran and Pak and India and even Afghan has similar seccessionist movements.
> 
> USA has similar movements with Lakota nation, African-Americans, Asians, Latinos and Mexicanos who wan't seccession. Europe is even worse off. Now imagine the 10-15&#37; of the ethnic minorities claim part of Europe as their own nation?
> 
> So the US by harboring and supporting the maddam who is inciting and co-orchestrating these terrorist attacks, they hold partial blame. Do you know the racial disparity is more severe in US and Europe than in China? That is the nasty nature of karma, by fanning hatred around the world (recently in Iran and now China) --- how long do you think similar uprisings will occur in US, Europe, Australia?



I know what you mean. 

But here in Italy, for the example, are the immigrants who get the most humble/hard jobs while italians get the most confortable jobs. 
It's not the contrary! 
I know that chinese law contains many facilitations for minorities; for example, they can get access to universities more easily. But the problems comes when some of them don't want to go to han-chinese made schools and still demanding better life condition.

I know that this sounds like they're wrong & we're right, but just remember that their land belongs to China because we won the war, and in order to gain consensus from local people, you should be tollerant, you just cannot go there and act like the new lord; specialy when they feel you as different from them.

Anyway, from a strategic point of view, XinJiang has oil, and recently they've also found the biggest iron minefield in Asia, so we cannot permit ourself to lose these territories. This is why USA & Associates may have tried to destabilize this region.

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## Gabriel

cloyce said:


> This is why USA & Associates *may have *tried to destabilize this region.



By what means exacly ? Please substantiate your claim.


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## Gabbar

*Protesters go online, breach &#8216;great firewall&#8217;*

SHANGHAI: Independent information about deadly riots in China&#8217;s remote northwest filtered out on Twitter, YouTube and other internet forums on 
Monday, frustrating government efforts to control the news. 

The communist authorities who built the so-called Great Firewall of China, raced to stamp out video, images and words posted by internet users about the unrest on Sunday which, officials said, left at least 156 dead. 

But similar to the phenomenon seen last month during Iran&#8217;s political turmoil, pictures, videos and updates from Urumqi poured onto social networking and image sharing websites such as Twitter, YouTube and Flickr. 

In many cases, items were reposted by other internet users on sites outside China to preserve the content, while Twitter helped link people around the globe to images Chinese authorities did not want seen. 

A US academic in Urumqi appeared to break news about the unrest via Twitter, saying hours before the mainstream news organisations on Sunday night that security forces were blocking off streets in the city. 

Footage posted on YouTube showed what appeared to be, at least initially, a peaceful protest, with men and women marching, chatting on mobile phones, sipping bottled water and raising their arms as they cheered. 

Another video on the site apparently taken by low-grade video technology in Urumqi showed police in black helmets leading away handcuffed protesters. Meanwhile some Chinese internet users were able to express frustration at having their postings on the violence deleted.


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## wtf

cloyce said:


> I know what you mean.
> 
> But here in Italy, for the example, are the immigrants who get the most humble/hard jobs while italians get the most confortable jobs.
> It's not the contrary!
> I know that chinese law contains many facilitations for minorities; for example, they can get access to universities more easily. But the problems comes when some of them don't want to go to han-chinese made schools and still demanding better life condition.
> 
> I know that this sounds like they're wrong & we're right, but just remember that their land belongs to China because we won the war, and in order to gain consensus from local people, you should be tollerant, you just cannot go there and act like the new lord; specialy when they feel you as different from them.
> 
> Anyway, from a strategic point of view, XinJiang has oil, and recently they've also found the biggest iron minefield in Asia, so we cannot permit ourself to lose these territories. This is why USA & Associates may have tried to destabilize this region.





I understand what you are trying to say, but please don't equate immigrants with minorities. 

Having lived in Europe, I have to say that racial discrimination is pretty low. The same has been my experience in the US. Sure, it is difficult to get a job, but that is due to Visa restrictions, not racial bias.

You can't treat Uygur people like you would treat immigrants into China. If you won the war and control the land, they are now your people. You should treat them as equals, not immigrants.


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## Gabriel

wtf said:


> Having lived in Europe, I have to say that racial discrimination is pretty low.



Things have changed in the last years and unfortunately not for the better.I can quote if you wish 2 instances (in Italy and Northern Ireland ) in which romanian citizens belonging to the Roma people have bean assaulted.

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## SinoIndusFriendship

Gabbar said:


> *Protesters go online, breach great firewall*
> 
> SHANGHAI: Independent information about deadly riots in Chinas remote northwest filtered out on Twitter, YouTube and other internet forums on
> Monday, frustrating government efforts to control the news.
> 
> The communist authorities who built the so-called Great Firewall of China, raced to stamp out video, images and words posted by internet users about the unrest on Sunday which, officials said, left at least 156 dead.
> 
> But similar to the phenomenon seen last month during Irans political turmoil, pictures, videos and updates from Urumqi poured onto social networking and image sharing websites such as Twitter, YouTube and Flickr.
> 
> In many cases, items were reposted by other internet users on sites outside China to preserve the content, while Twitter helped link people around the globe to images Chinese authorities did not want seen.
> 
> A US academic in Urumqi appeared to break news about the unrest via Twitter, saying hours before the mainstream news organisations on Sunday night that security forces were blocking off streets in the city.
> 
> Footage posted on YouTube showed what appeared to be, at least initially, a peaceful protest, with men and women marching, chatting on mobile phones, sipping bottled water and raising their arms as they cheered.
> 
> Another video on the site apparently taken by low-grade video technology in Urumqi showed police in black helmets leading away handcuffed protesters. Meanwhile some Chinese internet users were able to express frustration at having their postings on the violence deleted.



The reasons the bbs/blogs were frozen or removed was because people were very UPSET WITH THE TERROR ATTACK. It was a wise and RESPONSIBLE move to stem such emotional calls for "revenge" as it will only increase the tension and cause further deterioration.

Compare this with some of the comments which "cheered" for such attacks on innocent people. This speaks much to the 'calibre' of these individuals. The term Nazi refers to people who are so brainwashed in hatred that they fail to see the errors of their ways and CONDONE THESE EVIL & MALICIOUS BRUTALITY. 

Do you see Koreans, or Japanese or Vietnamese or Taiwanese Chinese *cheer* on such *cowardly terror acts???* Even though these nations are supposedly hostile towards China, their citizens DENOUNCE these acts. *THIS IS CALLED HUMAN COMPASSION.*  I thank all the people who see beyond the superficial window-dressing of religion or race, and see people as HUMAN BEINGS. Don't you think it is uncompassionate to ignore and downgrade this terrorist atrocity based on someone's race or religion? How can you consider yourself 'enlightened' or 'holier-than-thou' with this degenerative attitude?

I know some Chinese hold animosity towards Japanese people for their past heinous crimes. There are competitive animosity with Koreans. But there's a saying, there are some supposed "enemies" who treat you with more compassion than certain supposed "friends". 

There's also another wise saying: It is only during times of extreme duress do you truly find out who your TRUE friends are. And I believe this has been revealed - actions speak louder than empty words and fake promises.  Humanity will prevail.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

wtf said:


> I understand what you are trying to say, but please don't equate immigrants with minorities.
> 
> Having lived in Europe, I have to say that racial discrimination is pretty low. The same has been my experience in the US. Sure, it is difficult to get a job, but that is due to Visa restrictions, not racial bias.
> 
> You can't treat Uygur people like you would treat immigrants into China. If you won the war and control the land, they are now your people. You should treat them as equals, not immigrants.



Minorities have *preferential treatment*, unlike other places...


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## cloyce

Gabriel said:


> By what means exacly ? Please substantiate your claim.



Someone support the cospiracy theory which says that Rebiya Kadeer, the "uighur dalai lama" who live in USA, have orchestrated everything from the outside with the USA support.


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## Gabriel

cloyce said:


> Someone support the cospiracy theory which says that Rebiya Kadeer, the "uighur dalai lama" who live in USA, have orchestrated everything from the outside with the USA support.



Well, i love a good conspiracy theory myself but in order to believe it, it must be substantiated with facts not hearsay.


----------



## cloyce

wtf said:


> I understand what you are trying to say, but please don't equate immigrants with minorities.
> 
> Having lived in Europe, I have to say that racial discrimination is pretty low. The same has been my experience in the US. Sure, it is difficult to get a job, but that is due to Visa restrictions, not racial bias.
> 
> You can't treat Uygur people like you would treat immigrants into China. If you won the war and control the land, they are now your people. You should treat them as equals, not immigrants.



Sorry, but you did not understood what I said. 
Uighurs are the local people, han-chinese are immigrants. Generally, the local people should get the best job while immigrants get the less good job. This is what happens here in Europe. 
What is happening in XinJiang is exactly the contrary, and this may have frustrated the local people.

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## wtf

Gabriel said:


> Things have changed in the last years and unfortunately not for the better.I can quote if you wish 2 instances (in Italy and Northern Ireland ) in which romanian citizens belonging to the Roma people have bean assaulted.



Sure, I am not claiming that Europe is heaven or anything. But what I am saying is that racism is very different from anti-immigration feeling.

The anti-Roma thing has been going on over Europe for a long time. But things on that front have only gotten better, not worse. It certainly is not to the level that there are riots on streets. 

That said, I did see riots in Europe - the Catalan-Castellano fight in Spain, Football fights in Italy and random drunken violence everywhere. But again, having grown up in India, those are the things we have almost everyday, so it did not bother me.


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## wtf

cloyce said:


> Sorry, but you did not understood what I said.
> Uighurs are the local people, han-chinese are immigrants. Generally, the local people should get the best job while immigrants get the less good job. This is what happens here in Europe.
> What is happening in XinJiang is exactly the contrary, and this may have frustrated the local people.



Oh OK. I understand better now.


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## cloyce

Gabriel said:


> Well, i love a good conspiracy theory myself but in order to believe it, it must be substantiated with facts not hearsay.



Indeed I said they "MAY" have tried to do this, since I don't give much credit to claim for the moment.

By the way, the local goverment of Urumqi have first claimed the involvement of Rebiya Kadeer in this riot. Later, someone connected her involvement to CIA/USA and Associates ...


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## SinoIndusFriendship

Gabriel said:


> Well, i love a good conspiracy theory myself but in order to believe it, it must be substantiated with facts not hearsay.



If you have read the news, she directly called on for more "braver" and to further the fight on numerous internet sites. This is not even considering COVERT acts, for which she maintains direct connections with many individuals in Xinjiang. This is NOT mere heresay nor is it unsubstantiated.

It is no closed secret what her stance is. She is very vocal in her calls for violent actions. Terror groups with DIRECT links to her have been reprimanded. The fact she was given ASYLUM in the United States (using false excuse to receive medical treatment there) further solidifies the involvement of the USA. It is also no closed-door secret that the USA has openly supported terrorists activities with CIA involvement under the GUISE of "democracy movement" in countries all over the world (including China, Pakistan, Iran, Russia).

It is also no closed-door secret the zionist-media DISTORTS this event from its true nature -- that it is a PRE-MEDITATED TERRORIST ATTACK ON INNOCENTS WITH KNIVES, BATTONS, BUTCHER KNIVES, MACHETES, BATS! 

How much more substantiation does one need before we recognize the TRUE nature of this evil MASSACRE of innocents???


----------



## wtf

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> The reasons the bbs/blogs were frozen or removed was because people were very UPSET WITH THE TERROR ATTACK. It was a wise and RESPONSIBLE move to stem such emotional calls for "revenge" as it will only increase the j
> 
> Compare this with some of the comments which "cheered" for such attacks on innocent people. This speaks much to the 'calibre' of these individuals. The term Nazi refers to people who are so brainwashed in hatred that they fail to see the errors of their ways and CONDONE THESE EVIL & MALICIOUS BRUTALITY.
> 
> Do you see Koreans, or Japanese or Vietnamese or Taiwanese Chinese *cheer* on such *cowardly terror acts???* Even though these nations are supposedly hostile towards China, their citizens DENOUNCE these acts. *THIS IS CALLED HUMAN COMPASSION.*  I thank all the people who see beyond the superficial window-dressing of religion or race, and see people as HUMAN BEINGS. Don't you think it is uncompassionate to ignore and downgrade this terrorist atrocity based on someone's race or religion? How can you consider yourself 'enlightened' or 'holier-than-thou' with this degenerative attitude?
> 
> I know some Chinese hold animosity towards Japanese people for their past heinous crimes. There are competitive animosity with Koreans. But there's a saying, there are some supposed "enemies" who treat you with more compassion than certain supposed "friends".
> 
> There's also another wise saying: It is only during times of extreme duress do you truly find out who your TRUE friends are. And I believe this has been revealed - actions speak louder than empty words and fake promises.  Humanity will prevail.



Ah OK. Finally I think I am starting to understand what you have been complaining about. I think you might be wrong here.

1) *The news was censored for right reasons, so criticizing that is bad. *- Frankly most of us are on the fence on this one. Since all of us are outside China, I think there is no risk of riot spreading to other places and it should be safe for us to read the news. I don't trust the Chinese govt. nor the Uygur groups - So I'd like to read up as many news items as possible. I can't see what is wrong in reading up as much as you can.

2) * But there's a saying, there are some supposed "enemies" who treat you with more compassion than certain supposed "friends".. * - I don't know if you are talking about India or Pakistan. Either way nothing anyone posts here is either the Chinese govt., Indian govt. or Pak govt. positions. India and Pakistan allow people to post what they want on the internet. 

3) *Compare this with some of the comments which "cheered" for such attacks on innocent people. * - I did not see any cheering ? Which posts are you talking about ?


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## SinoIndusFriendship

cloyce said:


> Sorry, but you did not understood what I said.
> Uighurs are the local people, han-chinese are immigrants. Generally, the local people should get the best job while immigrants get the less good job. This is what happens here in Europe.
> What is happening in XinJiang is exactly the contrary, and this may have frustrated the local people.



Xinjiang has been a mixture of different ethnicities for thousands of years. It is generally the Hindu Fundamentalists which constantly attempt to use "Han" as some kind of hedgemonic "foreign" force when the truth is that the Turkic were ancient invaders into Xinjiang. Also no true Chinese who understands ancient history would fall folly to this petty division. Fact is the Dragon race has existed for longer than any other, it is an AMALGAMATION of different peoples. Has been and will be. 

If you want to speak of ethnic cleansing, look to Occupied Palestine, Australia, America, Manipur/Nagaland/etc. Here you have FOREIGNERS who ethnically cleansed the ORIGINAL inhabitants. Sorry but you can't claim Uyghirs having more claim than Mongols or Hans or whatever.


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## wtf

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> If you have read the news, she directly called on for more "braver" and to further the fight on numerous internet sites. This is not even considering COVERT acts, for which she maintains direct connections with many individuals in Xinjiang. This is NOT mere heresay nor is it unsubstantiated.
> 
> It is no closed secret what her stance is. She is very vocal in her calls for violent actions. Terror groups with DIRECT links to her have been reprimanded. The fact she was given ASYLUM in the United States (using false excuse to receive medical treatment there) further solidifies the involvement of the USA. It is also no closed-door secret that the USA has openly supported terrorists activities with CIA involvement under the GUISE of "democracy movement" in countries all over the world (including China, Pakistan, Iran, Russia).
> 
> It is also no closed-door secret the zionist-media DISTORTS this event from its true nature -- that it is a PRE-MEDITATED TERRORIST ATTACK ON INNOCENTS WITH KNIVES, BATTONS, BUTCHER KNIVES, MACHETES, BATS!
> 
> How much more substantiation does one need before we recognize the TRUE nature of this evil MASSACRE of innocents???



She seems to have denied the accusations. Anyway, who is she ? This is the first time I have heard her name.


Exclusive interview: Uighur leader Rebiya Kadeer - Channel 4 News


LH: You claim that the demonstration was peaceful, however we have a lot of evidence which you can't deny, that the Uighurs killed Han Chinese. What is your response?

RK: My reaction is that killing is absolutely unacceptable. If people did kill others I condemn it, but the people demonstrated peacefully and the Government used armed force, with machine guns, and were heavy handed and turned the people's protest into violence. When 800 Uighurs were butchered by 10 000 Chinese in Guangdong the police did nothing, and didnt save the Uighurs. And I believe this action created a lot of anger among Uighurs. Chinese people beat up Uighurs and Uighurs beat up Chinese in return  it's China's official policy.

LH: What should Uighurs do now?

RK: Uighurs should make their demands in a peaceful way. They should understand that it was the Chinese government which created the problems between Uighurs and Chinese, but there shouldn't be this problem between people. The Chinese government should also listen to Uighur people's demands and not oppress the Uighurs. How could Uighurs accept such brutality, killing and arresting innocent Uighurs?


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## Gabriel

wtf said:


> The anti-Roma thing has been going on over Europe for a long time. But things on that front have only gotten better, not worse. It certainly is not to the level that there are riots on streets.



People are not longer feeling welcomed that is my issue. 

Italian tolerance goes up in smoke as Gypsy camp is burnt to ground - Europe, World - The Independent
Romanians seek sanctuary from racism in Belfast church hall - Telegraph


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## SinoIndusFriendship

wtf said:


> She seems to have denied the accusations. Anyway, who is she ? This is the first time I have heard her name.
> 
> 
> Exclusive interview: Uighur leader Rebiya Kadeer - Channel 4 News
> 
> 
> LH: You claim that the demonstration was peaceful, however we have a lot of evidence which you can't deny, that the Uighurs killed Han Chinese. What is your response?
> 
> RK: My reaction is that killing is absolutely unacceptable. If people did kill others I condemn it, but the people demonstrated peacefully and the Government used armed force, with machine guns, and were heavy handed and turned the people's protest into violence. When 800 Uighurs were butchered by 10 000 Chinese in Guangdong the police did nothing, and didnt save the Uighurs. And I believe this action created a lot of anger among Uighurs. Chinese people beat up Uighurs and Uighurs beat up Chinese in return  it's China's official policy.
> 
> LH: What should Uighurs do now?
> 
> RK: Uighurs should make their demands in a peaceful way. They should understand that it was the Chinese government which created the problems between Uighurs and Chinese, but there shouldn't be this problem between people. The Chinese government should also listen to Uighur people's demands and not oppress the Uighurs. How could Uighurs accept such brutality, killing and arresting innocent Uighurs?



 Ha ha ha 
So the head of this terror movement DENIES involvement in the terror group she supports/involves with and you believe it?!  Carry on. 

Also the 800 butchered by 10,000 in GD is an outright LIE. When did this happen? It did not happen. Now someone who makes up such B.S. and you expect to take her words honestly? Doesn't she realized nearly a hundred million people live in GD and they would KNOW when 800 are butchered by 10,000. Doesn't she realize how EXPOSED HER LIES are???

quote: "When 800 Uighurs were butchered by 10 000 Chinese in Guangdong the police did nothing, and didnt save the Uighurs." THIS IS A BALD-FACE LIE. Shows her involvement clearly.


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## wtf

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> So the head of this terror movement DENIES involvement in the terror group she supports/involves with and you believe it?!



Accused head of accused terror movement. Not proved until Chinese and international courts say so. 



> Also the 800 butchered by 10,000 in GD is an outright LIE. When did this happen? It did not happen. Now someone who makes up such B.S. and you expect to take her words honestly? Doesn't she realized nearly a hundred million people live in GD and they would KNOW when 800 are butchered by 10,000. Doesn't she realize how EXPOSED HER LIES are???
> 
> quote: "When 800 Uighurs were butchered by 10 000 Chinese in Guangdong the police did nothing, and didnt save the Uighurs." THIS IS A BALD-FACE LIE. Shows her involvement clearly.




I don't know who to trust. Both sides seem to be making accusations.I was not there, so I don't know if 800 were killed. If that happened that is also equally condemnable. Will wait for more news before making up my mind.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

wtf said:


> Accused head of accused terror movement. Not proved until Chinese and international courts say so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know who to trust. Both sides seem to be making accusations.I was not there, so I don't know if 800 were killed. If that happened that is also equally condemnable. Will wait for more news before making up my mind.



This was the toy factory where GD women were viciously raped and a riot ensued in which 2 -- ONLY 2 -- were killed. This is MUCH LESS than 800....  

By the way if you guys continue to murder and rape and ethnic cleans my brothers & sisters in Manipur, Nagaland, etc....


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## wtf

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> By the way if you guys continue to murder and rape and ethnic cleans my brothers & sisters in Manipur, Nagaland, etc....




I don't understand this. Are you trying to destroy China's image ? The above states have nothing to do with Uygur provinces or whatever. Why drag them into this and make this into an India vs. China issue ? 

Rationally speaking, India has nothing to gain from supporting Uygur movements or by opposing them. Neither do I care much about the issue as long as no one gets killed. But your posts seem to be full of anti-India vitriol. What gives? Are you trying to provoke responses ? 

What has India to do with any of these issues ?


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## Gabriel

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> If you have read the news, she directly called on for more "braver" and to further the fight on numerous internet sites. This is not even considering COVERT acts, for which she maintains direct connections with many individuals in Xinjiang. This is NOT mere heresay nor is it unsubstantiated.
> It is no closed secret what her stance is. She is very vocal in her calls for violent actions. Terror groups with DIRECT links to her have been reprimanded. The fact she was given ASYLUM in the United States (using false excuse to receive medical treatment there) further solidifies the involvement of the USA. It is also no closed-door secret that the USA has openly supported terrorists activities with CIA involvement under the GUISE of "democracy movement" in countries all over the world (including China, Pakistan, Iran, Russia).
> It is also no closed-door secret the zionist-media DISTORTS this event from its true nature -- that it is a PRE-MEDITATED TERRORIST ATTACK ON INNOCENTS WITH KNIVES, BATTONS, BUTCHER KNIVES, MACHETES, BATS!
> How much more substantiation does one need before we recognize the TRUE nature of this evil MASSACRE of innocents???



If the government of China had direct evidence of her involvement with terror groups why did they release her on medical grounds ? 
The Government of China could have said NO right there.


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## wtf

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> This was the toy factory where GD women were viciously raped and a riot ensued in which 2 -- ONLY 2 -- were killed.



Xinhua was saying that the rape accusation was a false one spread by a guy who was laid off from work. The guy seems to have been arrested.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

WTF, you started insults and insensitive mocking of this atrocity then when you are confronted with your bald-face lies you backtrack??? Why the cowardly acts? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE AKHAND BHARAT is sustainable??? Our brothers and sisters being brutally killed and raped in 7-sisters will rise up. 

Why do you antagonize with Ch1nkies so much? Do you really hate us so much? Because Chinese people do NOT hate Indians, but the more you reveal your true nature the more people will see for themselves.

One word: KARMA.


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## wtf

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> WTF, you starting insults and insensitive mocking of this atrocity then when you are confronted with your bald-face lies you backtrack??? Why the cowardly acts? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE AKHAND BHARAT is sustainable??? Our brothers and sisters being brutally killed and raped in 7-sisters will rise up.
> 
> Why do you antagonize with Ch1nkies so much? Do you really hate us so much? Because Chinese people do NOT hate Indians, but the more you reveal your true nature the more people will see for themselves.
> 
> One word: KARMA.



Why do you think I hate China ? Where did I insult anyone ? Now I am totally confused.


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## wtf

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> WTF, you started insults and insensitive mocking of this atrocity then when you are confronted with your bald-face lies you backtrack??? Why the cowardly acts? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE AKHAND BHARAT is sustainable??? Our brothers and sisters being brutally killed and raped in 7-sisters will rise up.
> 
> Why do you antagonize with Ch1nkies so much? Do you really hate us so much? Because Chinese people do NOT hate Indians, but the more you reveal your true nature the more people will see for themselves.
> 
> One word: KARMA.




Oh and BTW, please stop using racial epithets for Chinese people. We don't know if you are Chinese. So I think you might be using that term just to start a fight.

Please refrain, it is against the forum rules to do that.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

It's an awe this 'ignorance' ploy is played, but not unexpected. Just look back at all your comments (too many to list) to see your game of playing ignorant isn't feasible. 

I have called since I first joined def.pk for friendship and cooperation. I even overlooked and forgave serious atrocities in my 'utopian' hope of a better future. Yet, it seems others are correct in stating that no matter how hard we try we can not improve or help others if they refuse to help/improve themselves. Continue to do what you want. You are responsible for your own karma. Continue to feed this karma and it will continue to grow until it takes on a life of its own.


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## wtf

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> It's an awe this 'ignorance' ploy is played, but not unexpected. Just look back at all your comments (too many to list) to see your game of playing ignorant isn't feasible.
> 
> I have called since I first joined def.pk for friendship and cooperation. I even overlooked and forgave serious atrocities in my 'utopian' hope of a better future. Yet, it seems others are correct in stating that no matter how hard we try we can not improve or help others if they refuse to help/improve themselves. Continue to do what you want. You are responsible for your own karma. Continue to feed this karma and it will continue to grow until it takes on a life of its own.



Truly, I don't understand you. 

Anyway, that's my last post on this thread unless any new news comes in.


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## Gabriel

China Central Television


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## DarkStar

*Sino Indus Friendship. You were out of line, and may that be your last rant. Make it about the message, not the messenger. That goes for everyone.*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## indiatech

2008nnd said:


> china have no any anti-muslim policy! and give more right to the muslim than the hang chinese! when i a see so many countryman were attacked and killed by musilim, i was so so so so angry, i cant help to stop my tears. why ! 140 hang chinese were dead, more than 800was badly wood! why , !!



Really. In china an Imam is bound to be inside the mosque only. He can't say or propagate the teachings of muslim outside the mosque.

Such an autonomy .


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## SinoIndusFriendship

DarkStar said:


> *Sino Indus Friendship. You were out of line, and may that be your last rant. Make it about the message, not the messenger. That goes for everyone.*



Please point out where it was not about the message? Why single me out when it is others who have shown utter disregard to human life? When have I ever taken pleasure in India's suffering?


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## A1Kaid

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Do the Uighurs traditionally use the Arabic script (going by the KFC sign)?



Yes the Uyghurs have traditionally used the Arabic script. They use it in school, newspapers, media, and overall in writing. Just as Pakistanis, Iranians, and others use the Arabic script.


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## DarkStar

*Do not question or criticise moderator decisions in an open forum. Your trouble has just cost you an infraction. Wise are those that take heed.*


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## cloyce

Gabriel said:


> China Central Television
> NVsZ8EkiXgA[/media] - ??????? ???? 2009.7.6 ? ??????????????




Nice to know that now the situation is under control.

This time it lasted much less then Tibet case.

According to this CCTV report, Rebiya Kadeer have exploited the GuangDong accident to istigate, through internet, people to do "brave acts". 
They have only talked about innocent citizen killed/wounded by rioters. There is no metion on policemen opening fire.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## shravan

cloyce said:


> @shravan
> 
> Bringing modernity means building modern infrastructure like better transportation, elettricity, water depuration, better healthcare, better education ect..




Not that. Is XinJiang region becoming a Han-Chinese majority place ?


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## TruthSeeker

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> To our Nazi-Hindu "friends" who show so much "humanitarian" "concern", please get your facts right. *This was a terrorist attack instigated from USA (by terrorist granted asylum there). * The attackers were terrorists, the victims are innocents. See below for detailed account.



Total lies from someone who is seriously disconnected from reality. How can you speak of others getting their facts right when you make such statements? Leave us out of this. We are scouring the world for someone who will take the Uiguars so that we DON'T have to send them back to China to be tortured.


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## MilesTogo

Lockheed F-16 said:


> You all should keep in mind that China is our ally and friend and we will have to support them in anything they do, in anything!Do you think the BBC , CNN and the western world give a damn about the Uighurs? Boys, they were only searching for a reason to bash China , it doesn't matter if they are uighurs or Tibetians, the aim is to make China look bad. I am sure that the Pakistani people are with China and I am sure this case will soon be investigated. No doubt there is maybe some human rights violation but I can say without doubt that China still has better human rights record than many many other Asian countries or even America! God bless China and its people



This is funny - so much for muslim umma...


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## Zaheerkhan

Lockheed F-16 said:


> You all should keep in mind that China is our ally and friend and we will have to support them in anything they do, in anything!Do you think the BBC , CNN and the western world give a damn about the Uighurs? Boys, they were only searching for a reason to bash China , it doesn't matter if they are uighurs or Tibetians, the aim is to make China look bad. I am sure that the Pakistani people are with China and I am sure this case will soon be investigated. No doubt there is maybe some human rights violation but I can say without doubt that China still has better human rights record than many many other Asian countries or even America! God bless China and its people



So disgusting.. I am ashamed of a fellow muslim...u Have lost the right to comment on any situation regarding muslims around the world.


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## Patriot

Zaheerkhan said:


> So disgusting.. I am ashamed of a fellow muslim...u Have lost the right to comment on any situation regarding muslims around the world.


Alright you can go back to your gutterhole now.We do what is in over national interest.Except Kashmiris we dont give 2 shits about Indian Muslims.

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## 2008nnd

xebex said:


> whatttt?...sounds like religious discrimination right there.



man! please dont be so satiric, i can understand your doubt about the fact that chinese goverment give more right to the Uigur than the han chinese. because chinese is a multiracial nation (56 nation) but han nation chinese is the main part of the population , so ,in order to maintain the stable ,united and harmonious society. goverment should have to give more right to the minority like the Uigur than the han chinese!
such as ,china have the one child policy ,but it's only for han chinese ,not suit for the minority.such as Uigur parent can many child if they want. and also ,the minority like Uigur students can get some bonus point and extra credit during multifarious competitive examination. and other more right than the han chinese! however ,it's not easy for some small part Uigur young people to get a job ,because they can not speak chinese , this is a problem , the reason is that in order to maintain and protect the traditional Islamic cluture for the Uigur muslem . goverment allow the Uigur to build their own traditonal school to teach the traditonal Islamic character and language .but some will learn chinese during the middle school. so nowday, some Uigur can speak chinese, some can speak very little ,some can not at all. so ,will hard for their job hurnting if not good at chinese. so ,this small part people will be critical of society. and also these small part Uigur Were instigated and organizated by some Uigur split organization and splittist which had been exiled ,flee to some western country!
and our indian friend, many country are multinational , indian also , many country have the splittist . indian also have this problem , so ,we are all developing country , we all get a lot of problem ,it's not easy and no perfect work to satisfy all people. i hope indian friend can be practical and realistic to the riot during Urumchi china , dont believe the bia and twist news from the BBC, CNN, (those media are not stay on the on the side of those mobs and splittist ) the mobs are only small part of the Urgur. most of them are peace loveing. 
i am sorry , i have try to express my idea ,but so poor my english ,!
thanks


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## 2008nnd

i just want to ask indian friends in this forum! do you all believe western media like BBC,CNN ? but ,there are so many difference report between indian local media and western media , sometimes the western media get a completely different contrary,bias,twisted report compare to indian media on the same issue about indian ? so ,who should we believe?? it's no good to provide indian people all news from western media about china . sometime it will misguiding to all indian. and it's no good to the intercommunion and understanding between two nations! by the way, i found a phenomena ,that the chinese media can be practical and realistic to report the indian according to the indian media ,but not the western media . but why when anything happen in china ,the indian media always get all news from western media ,and then make a bias and satiric report. we are all developing country ,should to undertand to each other more; but should not be believe everything from western media !. 
thans


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## 2008nnd

indiatech said:


> Really. In china an Imam is bound to be inside the mosque only. He can't say or propagate the teachings of muslim outside the mosque.
> 
> Such an autonomy .



i forgive you for your ignorance and bias to china! do you really know china?? how many news you get from china? fromBBC.CNN, do you know how many indian reporter in china? only 1 since 2008, anyway ,i hope indian can send more their reporter to china to provide a real china to indian people . but get everything from western media !

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## notsuperstitious

2008nnd said:


> i just want to ask indian friends in this forum! do you all believe western media like BBC,CNN ? but ,there are so many difference report between indian local media and western media , sometimes the western media get a completely different contrary,bias,twisted report compare to indian media on the same issue about indian ? so ,who should we believe?? it's no good to provide indian people all news from western media about china . sometime it will misguiding to all indian. and it's no good to the intercommunion and understanding between two nations! by the way, i found a phenomena ,that the chinese media can be practical and realistic to report the indian according to the indian media ,but not the western media . but why when anything happen in china ,the indian media always get all news from western media ,and then make a bias and satiric report. we are all developing country ,should to undertand to each other more; but should not be believe everything from western media !.
> thans



2008nnd, there seems to be a big cultural misunderstanding here between Chinese and Indian members.

You should give us some credit, we've had experience with free media for the past 60 (62-2) years. We've also seen western media, their human rights orgs, evangelists, european parliament etc etc taking india's case in international fora over various issues. We read it all and analyse it. Even our own media is very commenrialised and many times just poor quality, but we KNOW that and we KNOW how to handle it.

Another thing - Indian media many times gives reference to Chinese media too. However, fact remais that Chinese media is govt controlled.

Also, I recommend you visit some respected newspapers like 'the hindu' for a few days, check out their coverage of China and then make up your mind instead of making generalisations about indians.

Also try to understand it as a cultural issue.


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## notsuperstitious

2008nnd said:


> i forgive you for your ignorance and bias to china! do you really know china?? how many news you get from china? fromBBC.CNN, do you know how many indian reporter in china? only 1 since 2008, anyway ,i hope indian can send more their reporter to china to provide a real china to indian people . but get everything from western media !



Yes, I'd like to see more Indian reporters in China and more Chinese in India. We need to understand and respect each others culture.

I think Chinese also need to understand how free media and free societies work and not take offence at curiosity.


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## BSF

> 'Extraordinary defiance'
> 
> The BBC's Quentin Sommerville, on the streets of Urumqi, says at least 200 people - mostly elderly women or women with children - have taken to the streets, complaining that their relatives had been arbitrarily arrested.
> Mass arrests
> 
> The mass arrests have been going on since Sunday's clashes.
> 
> Reports are surfacing that police have been going from house to house, rounding up young men for questioning.
> 
> The Chinese authorities say they have arrested the "ringleaders" of the protests, but that they are still seeking others.


This is today's news
Page last updated at 05:33 GMT, Tuesday, 7 July 2009 06:33 UK

So much for peace returning.
Seems that PRC has taken all the male Ughirs to prison and that is why all the females are out on the streets to protest



> Many hundreds of people, mainly women, have come into the streets.
> 
> They are screaming and shouting, "*Give us our freedom, give us back our men*."




Source


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## RPK

URUMQI, July 7 (Xinhua) -- A Xinjiang official Tuesday vowed severe punishment for the mob in the "deadliest riot since New China was founded in 1949."

Sunday's riot in Urumqi has killed 156 people and injured more than 1,000, the largest number of casualties in any single incident of its kind in six decades. 

"The rioters violated laws and harmed the fundamental interests of all Chinese ethnic groups," said Li Zhi, Communist Party of China (CPC) chief of Urumqi. 

*Police in Xinjiang have arrested 1,434 suspects over Sunday's deadly riot, including 1,379 men *and 55 women. They are said to have conducted violent acts of killing, beating, smashing, looting and burning. 

While those under arrest might be released if no serious criminal records were found, Li said authorities would not let pass those who were still at large. 

Mobs in deadly Xinjiang violence subject to severe punishment: official_English_Xinhua


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## 2008nnd

BSF said:


> This is today's news
> Page last updated at 05:33 GMT, Tuesday, 7 July 2009 06:33 UK
> 
> So much for peace returning.
> Seems that PRC has taken all the male Ughirs to prison and that is why all the females are out on the streets to protest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source




hi BSF! keep on your trick and performance! i think you are the only one who i think the most cheeky indian in this forum! it's waste my slobber to argure with you!


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## RPK

2008nnd said:


> hi BSF! keep on your trick and performance! i think you are the only one who i think the most cheeky indian in this forum! it's waste my slobber to argure with you!




Hi 2008nnd 

Do have any newslink reporting from Ground zero with accurate information?


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## duhastmish

Bad news indeed. this is surely not the time to - make a issue out of it and point at chinese policy.

I think we should respect the dead and sympathize with injured. May god bless their soul and cure the injured soon.

I think this is not the only incedent we are seeing of ethnic violecnce infact every country is facing this - from america ( whit black east coast west coast ) to india ( religous riot ) to pakistan ( shia sunni) to turkey ( muslim and nuomuslim ) to china now.

I hope the situation gets back in control because loss of these life can not be repaired. 

My well wishes goes out to chinese .


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## 2008nnd

fateh71 said:


> 2008nnd, there seems to be a big cultural misunderstanding here between Chinese and Indian members.
> 
> You should give us some credit, we've had experience with free media for the past 60 (62-2) years. We've also seen western media, their human rights orgs, evangelists, european parliament etc etc taking india's case in international fora over various issues. We read it all and analyse it. Even our own media is very commenrialised and many times just poor quality, but we KNOW that and we KNOW how to handle it.
> 
> Another thing - Indian media many times gives reference to Chinese media too. However, fact remais that Chinese media is govt controlled.
> 
> Also, I recommend you visit some respected newspapers like 'the hindu' for a few days, check out their coverage of China and then make up your mind instead of making generalisations about indians.
> 
> Also try to understand it as a cultural issue.



hi dear fateh71. i need to show my best respect for you ,'cause you are the very few rational and without bias indian in this forum !
i think in the western democracy country's eye. china=communism=evilness . any news from china are control by goverment, any news from china are deserved doubt and denial! I have to admit that some offical media in china like the CCTV(china central TV) is only for goverment or official' news. but china get huge of other medias and TV which were not representative of goverments' voice!
and also ,on which the internect media and news. nobody can completely control the internect. you should know this fact that
China's Broadband Growth have reach one hundred million
to be the world top one ,more than the USA and japan &#12290; NetiZens had exceeded the American population to reach 3.4 hundreds million!
every Netizens can express their own voice freely and get all news of the world from the internect ,and make their comment!!
so, in the daily life ,you can doubt or express different vioce to some goverment policy. that's no problem(the problem is that goverment may ignore your willing to carry out its policy) ,but didnt like what the western media's report that will put you in to prison(that's completely twisted and arabian nights). however there may some hypersensitive issue people here should better not go for !such as ,dont make any nation-split,against the social democracy!! nowdays
the world is greatly change during last 30years, indian and china also get great development during the 30years. china was not a society without free speech any more , it's great change like the change on chinese economy! but what's pity very little indian can know what's changing in china , always look on china with blinkers and bias!
i think only the indian bussinessman who had visited china can know what's changeing in china, how's chinese standard of living and their freedom! so ,i hope more and more indian can come and visit china to see a real china by your own eyes, and should send more indian's report to china to get the external news and comment from china. and china should do the same thing so as to undertand the real indian!!

thanks

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## 2008nnd

the bad is that , very little indian can speak chinese, and very little chinese can speak english, china have more than 3.4 hundreds million Netizens and the Broadband user have reach 1 hundreds million . but no indian visit chinese internect and disscuss with chinese Netizens!

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## cloyce

shravan said:


> Not that. Is XinJiang region becoming a Han-Chinese majority place ?



I don't know. But for the moment uighurs are still the majority.


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## BSF

> hi BSF! keep on your trick and performance! i think you are the only one who i think the most cheeky indian in this forum! it's waste my slobber to argure with you!



Come on....what did i do ..I just posted news from a source.
I am "rational" too !


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## XiaoLei

Until the end of 2004,the population of Uighur in XinJiang is about 8.8 million,about 45&#37; of the total population in XinJiang,the population of Han in XinJiang is about 7.7 million.yes ,you can say Uighurs are the majority.
I am not a Han chinese,but a Tujia people , I have to say in china government treated han people and any othe people equally legally and economically.Also I have to say because the difference in culture and language, Han Chinese will be easier to find a good job and then achieve better position than Uighurs,just like immigrants have to face more problems than local people.


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## shravan

XiaoLei said:


> Until the end of 2004,the population of Uighur in XinJiang is about 8.8 million,about 45% of the total population in XinJiang,the population of Han in XinJiang is about 7.7 million.yes ,you can say Uighurs are the majority.



Thanks for the figures. 

Do you have the latest figures of XinJiang ?


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## muse

Anybody with any sense should be affraid of those who think of Islam not as a religion of Faith in God but as a tool in the hand of militants who want only anarchy and constant war. 
China seem to have been targetted by some who fear the economic and political growth of china and so for them it is important to create problems for China.


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## SEAL

&#36825;&#20123;&#21360;&#24230;&#20154;&#26159;&#29399;

I don't know why indians are so much interested in other problems der own country is burning 50% india (220 districts) is in grip of insurgency.

"Naxalite violence has spread to 156 districts in 13 states in just one year".

45 pc of India under terror shadow - India - The Times of India

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## Lockheed F-16

Zaheerkhan said:


> So disgusting.. I am ashamed of a fellow muslim...u Have lost the right to comment on any situation regarding muslims around the world.



Oh yes, as though u all care abt us pakistani muslims and light candles when there is a bomb attack, don't be hypocrites mate, I was honest and you should be,too!In fact we both don't give a damn about each other and therefore tell me the truth rather lying abt ur feelings for 'all muslims in the world'

God Speed

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## luoshan

2008nnd said:


> hi dear fateh71. i need to show my best respect for you ,'cause you are the very few rational and without bias indian in this forum !
> i think in the western democracy country's eye. china=communism=evilness . any news from china are control by goverment, any news from china are deserved doubt and denial! I have to admit that some offical media in china like the CCTV(china central TV) is only for goverment or official' news. but china get huge of other medias and TV which were not representative of goverments' voice!
> and also ,on which the internect media and news. nobody can completely control the internect. you should know this fact that
> China's Broadband Growth have reach one hundred million
> to be the world top one ,more than the USA and japan &#12290; NetiZens had exceeded the American population to reach 3.4 hundreds million!
> every Netizens can express their own voice freely and get all news of the world from the internect ,and make their comment!!
> so, in the daily life ,you can doubt or express different vioce to some goverment policy. that's no problem(the problem is that goverment may ignore your willing to carry out its policy) ,but didnt like what the western media's report that will put you in to prison(that's completely twisted and arabian nights). however there may some hypersensitive issue people here should better not go for !such as ,dont make any nation-split,against the social democracy!! nowdays
> the world is greatly change during last 30years, indian and china also get great development during the 30years. china was not a society without free speech any more , it's great change like the change on chinese economy! but what's pity very little indian can know what's changing in china , always look on china with blinkers and bias!
> i think only the indian bussinessman who had visited china can know what's changeing in china, how's chinese standard of living and their freedom! so ,i hope more and more indian can come and visit china to see a real china by your own eyes, and should send more indian's report to china to get the external news and comment from china. and china should do the same thing so as to undertand the real indian!!
> 
> thanks


I live in China for past many years. 
some facts: 
Everything in China is censored.. even internet.. The 'Great Firewall of China' is as famous as the Great wall of China. They say the Chinese government employs over 20,000 internet censors. generally I find I'm not able to access 30-40&#37; of the websites.
Foreign TV channels are not allowed for ordinary Chinese. Only few selected foreign channels allowed in places meant for foreigners like international apartments or hotels. Almost 99% of the channels are government controlled with CCTV having monopoly. The foreign news channels are broadcast with time delay. This is to block-out any news that is sensitive to China. Its common to see CNN or BBC to go blank for few minutes all of a sudden when they are airing some news about Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang or any such things.
Youtube is still blocked in China. Wikipedia was blocked for sometime. fortunately unblocked now.
Most blog sites are blocked.
Foreign news and defense websites are blocked.
Google goes down occassionally for no reason. The reason becomes apparent after a few days and is usually because google search was returning results which is considered sensitive in China.
Government has made anti-**** softwares mandatory in all computers, but the real motive is censorship of sensitive information.
There are hardly any newspapers published. The ones which are published are 100% government controlled.
Any reference to 1989 activities in Tian'anmen are automatically censored.
Any mention of Dalai lama is censored. 
none of the foreigners here watch the local channels because we all know they are governments propaganda machinery.

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## Su 30mki

fox said:


> &#36825;&#20123;&#21360;&#24230;&#20154;&#26159;&#29399;
> 
> I don't know why indians are so much interested in other problems der own country is burning 50% india (220 districts) is in grip of insurgency.
> 
> "Naxalite violence has spread to 156 districts in 13 states in just one year".
> 
> 45 pc of India under terror shadow - India - The Times of India



Because other also take interest in India when Godhra , Orissa happened?


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## Su 30mki

2008nnd said:


> i forgive you for your ignorance and bias to china! do you really know china?? how many news you get from china? fromBBC.CNN, do you know how many indian reporter in china? only 1 since 2008, anyway ,i hope indian can send more their reporter to china to provide a real china to indian people . but get everything from western media !



Since when China is start proving access to Other new channels? Do any other news Channel was present in Tibet or in present crises?


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## XiaoLei

shravan said:


> Thanks for the figures.
> 
> Do you have the latest figures of XinJiang ?



sorry, I didnot find it,but I have been XinJiang in 2002 and 2008,I think that figure didnot change a lot.

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## luoshan

2008nnd said:


> i forgive you for your ignorance and bias to china! do you really know china?? how many news you get from china? fromBBC.CNN, do you know how many indian reporter in china? only 1 since 2008, anyway ,i hope indian can send more their reporter to china to provide a real china to indian people . but get everything from western media !



Not many foreign reporters come to china because of various restrictions. First there is restrictions of movement. You need special permission to cover places like Tibet or Xinjiang. Even if the reporters manages to reach the place of action, they have to go only in the guided tour organised by the government and see what the government stage manages the entire events to show the government in good light. Most of the information is fed by the government and governments news agency Xinhua. Any reporter filing reports which are seen as not toeing the Chinese line is made unwelcome in the least and mostly deported.
I hardly found any Indian reporters here. The ones i met said that there is no much interest in Chinese news in India. Also, they are frustrated about the lack of freedom in reporting. After expereincing the press freedom in India and many other countries, they say china is very suffocating..

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## Joshi

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> If USA, India and Turkey want our Xinjiang and Tibet to be the next Kosovo!
> 
> 
> Please let Washington, New Delhi and Ankara enjoy our Nuclear bombs!
> 
> We have Nothing but Nuclear bombs!





Actually to remind you, India and US also has N-bombs.

Apart from that we also have sensibility of not throwing up this type of over-confident BS.


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## Sino-PakFriendship

Joshi said:


> Actually to remind you, India and US also has N-bombs.
> 
> Apart from that we also have sensibility of not throwing up this type of over-confident BS.




We have nothing but nuclear bomb.

Only 1 occassion China will let off N-bomb to USA and India - Military and financial support for Tibetan independence


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## Sino-PakFriendship

Let us KO USA-India-Turkey-Japan anti-China groups!


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## s90

luoshan said:


> Not many foreign reporters come to china because of various restrictions. First there is restrictions of movement. You need special permission to cover places like Tibet or Xinjiang. Even if the reporters manages to reach the place of action, they have to go only in the guided tour organised by the government and see what the government stage manages the entire events to show the government in good light. Most of the information is fed by the government and governments news agency Xinhua. Any reporter filing reports which are seen as not toeing the Chinese line is made unwelcome in the least and mostly deported.
> I hardly found any Indian reporters here. The ones i met said that there is no much interest in Chinese news in India. Also, they are frustrated about the lack of freedom in reporting. After expereincing the press freedom in India and many other countries, they say china is very suffocating..



Every country has its own system and way of doing things.


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## PeaceForAll

fox said:


> &#36825;&#20123;&#21360;&#24230;&#20154;&#26159;&#29399;
> 
> I don't know why indians are so much interested in other problems der own country is burning 50% india (220 districts) is in grip of insurgency.
> 
> "Naxalite violence has spread to 156 districts in 13 states in just one year".
> 
> 45 pc of India under terror shadow - India - The Times of India



The thread was about chinese and the uighurs. Why derailing it with some other topic? 

By the way, Can anyone show light on what is the origin of the Uighur Muslims? How did they get there in first place (were they natives conveted to islam or immigrants??? )


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## Gabbar

fox said:


> &#36825;&#20123;&#21360;&#24230;&#20154;&#26159;&#29399;
> 
> I don't know why indians are so much interested in other problems der own country is burning 50% india (220 districts) is in grip of insurgency.
> 
> "Naxalite violence has spread to 156 districts in 13 states in just one year".
> 
> 45 pc of India under terror shadow - India - The Times of India



*
Stick to topic kido. *


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## Gabbar

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> Let us KO USA-India-Turkey-Japan anti-China groups!




Is it so hard to stick to the topic?


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## Gabbar

Su 30mki said:


> Because other also take interest in India when Godhra , Orissa happened?



*Dont feed the troll. Ignoring them is the best remedy for thier disease.*


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## vandemataram

Joe Shearer said:


> Dear Sir,
> 
> Of course you are at liberty to say whatever you please.
> 
> However, as a loyal and patriotic Indian, permit me to say that I did not appreciate your post. Whatever the requirements of scoring points off the Pakistanis who have offended you, it is unseemly to question the antecedents of our fellow-citizens who happen to be Muslim, or to ask them to keep proving their loyalty. Please do not wash dirty linen in public; the confession which gave us Air Chief Marshal I. H. Latif, Major General Afsar Karim, above all, Abdul Hamid, who proved his valour, his honour and his loyalty with his life, does not owe any explanations to any one, least of all to pontificating windbags who are unlikely to have heard a shot fired in anger in their lives.
> 
> I consider therefore that I am at liberty to say that I am deeply upset and offended at your post, and protest against it. It is a matter of some regret to me that the administrators have allowed this statement to be posted.
> 
> 'Joe S.'



Excuse me Mr JS...I would be greatly pleased if you try and comprehend the import of my remarks...

It highlighrs just one fact that immigration and assimilation of a race or peoples do not make them outsiders...

It is not in the case of Tukic/Uighurs nor it is the case in India with the Muslims...

It goes to the extent of proving that the remark which I replied to is nt quite correct ...

Saying and proving that Immigration (Not deliberate like the Incentive induced immigration of the Hans to TAR and the East Turkesan), is a natural phenomenon and these lame excuses is as wrong as it is in the case of PRC as it is with India...

Thank you


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## scshqgcm

how many muslims in china,20million.
how many different muslim nationality in china? 10
Hui, Uygur, Kazak, Uzbek, Tajik, Tatar, Kirgiz, Salar, Dongxiang &#65292;baoan



is this a muslim problem? no 
it's a Uygur Separatist forces problem,,,,,,,,and i know there is a battle with taliban now in Pakistan and Afghanistan&#65292;they r against terrorists,right?
why in china it is a anti-muslim action,according to some indians?
make is all you want,right?
http://www.zaobao.com/photoweb/urumchi.shtml
this is a singapore website,in china we r trying our best to keep han chinese cool down ,not to revenge
and trust me last year,when roit kill some han chinese in Tibet we r so painful and angry,but we didnt revenge,i dont know if things happened in india what would happen&#65292;my Pakistani friends will tell me 
so if you have faith in religion,there r many innocent people died,show me what is goodness 
even we r evil in your eyes------my indian friends ,we feel sorry about the trouble in munbai ,last year,we r angry about your police not do enough thing to keep innocent people safe.and we hope innocent people safe,even i dont like india
this is a state media,even you dont believe it ,why not watch it ?and you can bash china too
CCTV.com - Xinjiang Urumqi Riots


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## scshqgcm

luoshan said:


> Not many foreign reporters come to china because of various restrictions. First there is restrictions of movement. You need special permission to cover places like Tibet or Xinjiang. Even if the reporters manages to reach the place of action, they have to go only in the guided tour organised by the government and see what the government stage manages the entire events to show the government in good light. Most of the information is fed by the government and governments news agency Xinhua. Any reporter filing reports which are seen as not toeing the Chinese line is made unwelcome in the least and mostly deported.
> I hardly found any Indian reporters here. The ones i met said that there is no much interest in Chinese news in India. Also, they are frustrated about the lack of freedom in reporting. After expereincing the press freedom in India and many other countries, they say china is very suffocating..


they r in Urumqi,time is changing,you said you r in Beijing?

ÎÚÂ³Ä¾ÆëÏòÖÐÍâ¼ÇÕßÌá¹©¿íËÉ»·¾³_CCTV.com_ÖÐ¹úÖÐÑëµçÊÓÌ¨
International News - The New York Times


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## Vassnti

The one thing no one seems to have raised is who the dead actually are. 

156 dead 800 injured by most sources but the goverment isnt saying who they were.

The Han posting here are crying for blood but has any one stopped to think that most of those casualties are probably Uighurs?

There seem to be lots of reports of Han chinese beeing beaten and reobbed, stores looted or cars burnt and yes these things are wrong but no reports i have seen of Uighurs killing any one. 

1000 protesters with sticks rocks and knives, 20,000 police with automatic weapons and APC's. If the killing of 2 Uighurs caused a riot i guess the goverment would want to keep the killing of over 100 rather quiet.


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## indiatech

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Please point out where it was not about the message? Why single me out when it is others who have shown utter disregard to human life? *When have I ever taken pleasure in India's suffering*?



A plenty of times. One recent example is in this thread. See it yourself how satisfied you were.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...rth-eastern-state-mizoram-chief-minister.html


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## scshqgcm

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT IN FOLLOWING POSTS

when the same thing happen in china,it is not a riot but a protest


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## scshqgcm

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT IN FOLLOWING POSTS



riot in Xinjiang,tell me what is peaceful protest?


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## scshqgcm

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT IN FOLLOWING POSTS

terrorists are peaceful protests


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## Gabbar

*Dude put some warnings and post these as links not images!!!*


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## scshqgcm

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT IN FOLLOWING POSTS

protest in peaceful in 3 hours and killed 156 and 1046 wounded,so peaceful? in a logic ,you r chinese so it is not a big problem.

and they would say--------oh chinese army killed innocent protestors


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## Kasrkin

scshqgsm, is there any way for you to confirm that all this is a result of violence by the protestors and not the state machinery?

Thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## scshqgcm

Kasrkin said:


> scshqgsm, is there any way for you to confirm that all this is a result of violence by the protestors and not the state machinery?
> 
> Thanks.




http://www.zaobao.com/photoweb/urumchi.shtml

this is a singapore media,and in china ,most of state media is not allow to show it ........in order to keep han chinese cool down ,not to revenge

bbc cnn or other west media is in Xinjiang too,but i dont think they will show the world these pictures


how many muslims in china,20million.
how many different muslim nationality in china? 10
Hui, Uygur, Kazak, Uzbek, Tajik, Tatar, Kirgiz, Salar, Dongxiang &#65292;baoan



is this a muslim problem? no 
it's a Uygur Separatist forces problem,,,,,,,,

Reactions: Like Like:
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## indiatech

2008nnd said:


> *i forgive you for your ignorance and bias to china*! do you really know china?? how many news you get from china? fromBBC.CNN, do you know how many indian reporter in china? only 1 since 2008, anyway ,i hope indian can send more their reporter to china to provide a real china to indian people . but get everything from western media !



Huh ignorance ? Mate you can't just skip the communist attrocities and domination of spread of islam in china just like that by throwing a few words of propaganda like that to me.

Have you travelled to XinJiang ? If yes, could you please answer some of the following realities/rules faced by muslim people in XinJiang. Note these are not from western media. Some of them are even displayed infront of the mosques why :

1. The imam's sermon at Friday Prayer must run no longer than a half-hour. Prayer in public areas outside the mosque is forbidden.

2. Residents of Khotan are not allowed to worship at mosques outside of town.

3. Rules displayed on the wall of mosques says that government workers and nonreligious people may not be "forced" to attend services at the mosque - a generous wording of a law that prohibits government workers and Communist Party members from going at all. Why government officials who are Muslims are not allowed to pray? you can go yourself and see the rules in mosque in Khotan. I think the rules have now been put in the internet as well last year.
The government restrictions are posted inside mosques and elsewhere across Xinjiang.

4. Imams may not teach the Koran in private, and studying Arabic is allowed only at special government schools.

5. Two of Islam's five pillars - the sacred fasting month of Ramadan and the pilgrimage to Mecca called the hajj - are also carefully controlled.Students and government workers are compelled to eat during Ramadan, and the passports of Uighurs have been confiscated across Xinjiang to force them to join government-run hajj tours rather than travel illegally to Mecca on their own.

6. Any educated man would know that heavy-handed tactics like the restrictions on Islam will only radicalize more Uighurs. why the govt keep saying "three forces" of separatism, terrorism and religious extremism threaten to destabilize the region.Many of the rules have been on the books for years, but some local governments in Xinjiang have publicly highlighted them in the past seven weeks by posting the laws on Web sites or hanging banners in towns.

7. Han Chinese, the country's dominant ethnic group, discriminate against Uighurs based on the most obvious differences between the groups: language and religion. This is evident as Uighurs are not prefered for jobs sometimes. Why many Han Chinese see Islam as the root of social problems in Xinjiang, when you speak with them.
Meanwhile Chinese government, which is officially atheist, recognizes five religions - Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Taoism and Buddhism. One interview with a Han man who runs construction business in Kashgar, he said: The Uighurs are lazy. It's because of their religion " he said. "They spend so much time praying. What are they praying for?"

8. Signs painted on mud-brick walls in the winding alleyways of old Kashgar warn against making illegal pilgrimages. A red banner hanging on a large mosque in the Uighur area of Urumqi, the regional capital, says, "Implement the policy of organized and planned pilgrimage; individual pilgrimage is forbidden."

9. The government gives various reasons for controlling the hajj. Officials say that the Saudi Arabian government is concerned about crowded conditions in Mecca that have led to fatal tramplings, and that Muslims who leave China on their own sometimes spend too much money on the pilgrimage.Critics say the government is trying to restrict the movements of Uighurs and prevent them from coming into contact with other Muslims, fearing that such exchanges could build a pan-Islamic identity in Xinjiang. About two years ago, the government began confiscating the passports of Uighurs across the region, angering many people. Now virtually no Uighurs have passports, though they can apply for them for short trips.The new restriction has made life especially difficult for businessmen who travel to neighbouring countries.To get a passport to go on an official hajj tour or a business trip, applicants must leave a deposit of nearly $6,000

What on the bloody hell is this ?

10. One man in Kashgar said the imam at his mosque, who like all official imams is paid by the government, had recently been urging congregants to go to Mecca only with legal tours. That is not easy for many Uighurs. The cost of an official trip is the equivalent of $3,700, and hefty bribes usually raise the price. Once a person files an application, the authorities do a background check into the family. If the applicant has children, the children must be old enough to be financially self-sufficient, and the applicant is required to show that he or she has substantial savings in the bank.Rules posted last year on the Xinjiang government's Web site say the applicant must be 50 to 70 years old, "love the country and obey the law." A govt employee might very well lose his pension if he went on the hajj.

11. The rules on fasting during Ramadan are just as strict. They vary by town and county but include requiring restaurants to stay open during daylight hours and mandating that women not wear veils and men shave their beards. One rule that officials in some towns seem especially intent on enforcing is the ban on students' fasting. Supporters of this policy say students need to eat to study properly. in Kashgar university locked the gates and put glass shards along the top of a campus wall. tried to force students to eat during the day by prohibiting them from leaving campus in the evening to join their families in breaking the daily fast.


----------



## zombie

So does the state media post images of its crackdown on the uighur muslims and all the folks they killed earlier? Does such things make the chinese angry or only when the hans are killed? 

Give an honest answer if you can instead of going off in flames.


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## scshqgcm

zombie said:


> So does the state media post images of its crackdown on the uighur muslims and all the folks they killed earlier? Does such things make the chinese angry or only when the hans are killed?
> 
> Give an honest answer if you can instead of going off in flames.


when chinese r in trouble ,you indians r happy,and i tell you there r no such pictures on state media,these pictures r not allow to show in china now,i got this from oversea media
ÈËÃñÍø

ÐÂ»ªÍø_´«²¥ÖÐ¹ú ±¨µÀÊÀ½ç
ÖÐ¹úÖÐÑëµçÊÓÌ¨ CCTV.com


----------



## indiatech

scshqgcm said:


> http://www.zaobao.com/photoweb/urumchi.shtml
> 
> this is a singapore media,and in china ,most of state media is not allow to show it ........in order to keep han chinese cool down ,not to revenge
> 
> bbc cnn or other west media is in Xinjiang too,but i dont think they will show the world these pictures
> 
> 
> how many muslims in china,20million.
> how many different muslim nationality in china? 10
> Hui, Uygur, Kazak, Uzbek, Tajik, Tatar, Kirgiz, Salar, Dongxiang &#65292;baoan
> 
> 
> 
> *is this a muslim problem*? no
> it's a Uygur Separatist forces problem,,,,,,,,




Please explain what are the problems below supposed to be: 

1. The imam's sermon at Friday Prayer must run no longer than a half-hour. Prayer in public areas outside the mosque is forbidden.

2. Residents of Khotan are not allowed to worship at mosques outside of town.

3. Rules displayed on the wall of mosques says that government workers and nonreligious people may not be "forced" to attend services at the mosque - a generous wording of a law that prohibits government workers and Communist Party members from going at all. Why government officials who are Muslims are not allowed to pray? you can go yourself and see the rules in mosque in Khotan. I think the rules have now been put in the internet as well last year.
The government restrictions are posted inside mosques and elsewhere across Xinjiang.

4. Imams may not teach the Koran in private, and studying Arabic is allowed only at special government schools.

5. Two of Islam's five pillars - the sacred fasting month of Ramadan and the pilgrimage to Mecca called the hajj - are also carefully controlled.Students and government workers are compelled to eat during Ramadan, and the passports of Uighurs have been confiscated across Xinjiang to force them to join government-run hajj tours rather than travel illegally to Mecca on their own.

6. Any educated man would know that heavy-handed tactics like the restrictions on Islam will only radicalize more Uighurs. why the govt keep saying "three forces" of separatism, terrorism and religious extremism threaten to destabilize the region.Many of the rules have been on the books for years, but some local governments in Xinjiang have publicly highlighted them in the past seven weeks by posting the laws on Web sites or hanging banners in towns.

7. Han Chinese, the country's dominant ethnic group, discriminate against Uighurs based on the most obvious differences between the groups: language and religion. This is evident as Uighurs are not prefered for jobs sometimes. Why many Han Chinese see Islam as the root of social problems in Xinjiang, when you speak with them.
Meanwhile Chinese government, which is officially atheist, recognizes five religions - Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Taoism and Buddhism. One interview with a Han man who runs construction business in Kashgar, he said: The Uighurs are lazy. It's because of their religion " he said. "They spend so much time praying. What are they praying for?"

8. Signs painted on mud-brick walls in the winding alleyways of old Kashgar warn against making illegal pilgrimages. A red banner hanging on a large mosque in the Uighur area of Urumqi, the regional capital, says, "Implement the policy of organized and planned pilgrimage; individual pilgrimage is forbidden."

9. The government gives various reasons for controlling the hajj. Officials say that the Saudi Arabian government is concerned about crowded conditions in Mecca that have led to fatal tramplings, and that Muslims who leave China on their own sometimes spend too much money on the pilgrimage.Critics say the government is trying to restrict the movements of Uighurs and prevent them from coming into contact with other Muslims, fearing that such exchanges could build a pan-Islamic identity in Xinjiang. About two years ago, the government began confiscating the passports of Uighurs across the region, angering many people. Now virtually no Uighurs have passports, though they can apply for them for short trips.The new restriction has made life especially difficult for businessmen who travel to neighbouring countries.To get a passport to go on an official hajj tour or a business trip, applicants must leave a deposit of nearly $6,000

What on the bloody hell is this ?

10. One man in Kashgar said the imam at his mosque, who like all official imams is paid by the government, had recently been urging congregants to go to Mecca only with legal tours. That is not easy for many Uighurs. The cost of an official trip is the equivalent of $3,700, and hefty bribes usually raise the price. Once a person files an application, the authorities do a background check into the family. If the applicant has children, the children must be old enough to be financially self-sufficient, and the applicant is required to show that he or she has substantial savings in the bank.Rules posted last year on the Xinjiang government's Web site say the applicant must be 50 to 70 years old, "love the country and obey the law." A govt employee might very well lose his pension if he went on the hajj.

11. The rules on fasting during Ramadan are just as strict. They vary by town and county but include requiring restaurants to stay open during daylight hours and mandating that women not wear veils and men shave their beards. One rule that officials in some towns seem especially intent on enforcing is the ban on students' fasting. Supporters of this policy say students need to eat to study properly. in Kashgar university locked the gates and put glass shards along the top of a campus wall. tried to force students to eat during the day by prohibiting them from leaving campus in the evening to join their families in breaking the daily fast.


----------



## scshqgcm

zombie said:


> So does the state media post images of its crackdown on the uighur muslims and all the folks they killed earlier? Does such things make the chinese angry or only when the hans are killed?
> 
> Give an honest answer if you can instead of going off in flames.


you r trying to make,do you think that we r fools,this is not a muslim problem,i dont get what you said

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## indiatech

scshqgcm said:


> *when chinese r in trouble ,you indians r happy*,and i tell you there r no such pictures on state media,these pictures r not allow to show in china now,i got this from oversea media
> ÈËÃñÍø
> 
> ÐÂ»ªÍø_´«²¥ÖÐ¹ú ±¨µÀÊÀ½ç
> ÖÐ¹úÖÐÑëµçÊÓÌ¨ CCTV.com



No Indian is happy with what is going on and what went on in the past few years. We value human life the most. But at the same time we discriminate sabotage .


----------



## scshqgcm

indiatech said:


> Please explain what are the problems below supposed to be:
> 
> 1. The imam's sermon at Friday Prayer must run no longer than a half-hour. Prayer in public areas outside the mosque is forbidden.
> 
> 2. Residents of Khotan are not allowed to worship at mosques outside of town.
> 
> 3. Rules displayed on the wall of mosques says that government workers and nonreligious people may not be "forced" to attend services at the mosque - a generous wording of a law that prohibits government workers and Communist Party members from going at all. Why government officials who are Muslims are not allowed to pray? you can go yourself and see the rules in mosque in Khotan. I think the rules have now been put in the internet as well last year.
> The government restrictions are posted inside mosques and elsewhere across Xinjiang.
> 
> 4. Imams may not teach the Koran in private, and studying Arabic is allowed only at special government schools.
> 
> 5. Two of Islam's five pillars - the sacred fasting month of Ramadan and the pilgrimage to Mecca called the hajj - are also carefully controlled.Students and government workers are compelled to eat during Ramadan, and the passports of Uighurs have been confiscated across Xinjiang to force them to join government-run hajj tours rather than travel illegally to Mecca on their own.
> 
> 6. Any educated man would know that heavy-handed tactics like the restrictions on Islam will only radicalize more Uighurs. why the govt keep saying "three forces" of separatism, terrorism and religious extremism threaten to destabilize the region.Many of the rules have been on the books for years, but some local governments in Xinjiang have publicly highlighted them in the past seven weeks by posting the laws on Web sites or hanging banners in towns.
> 
> 7. Han Chinese, the country's dominant ethnic group, discriminate against Uighurs based on the most obvious differences between the groups: language and religion. This is evident as Uighurs are not prefered for jobs sometimes. Why many Han Chinese see Islam as the root of social problems in Xinjiang, when you speak with them.
> Meanwhile Chinese government, which is officially atheist, recognizes five religions - Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Taoism and Buddhism. One interview with a Han man who runs construction business in Kashgar, he said: The Uighurs are lazy. It's because of their religion " he said. "They spend so much time praying. What are they praying for?"
> 
> 8. Signs painted on mud-brick walls in the winding alleyways of old Kashgar warn against making illegal pilgrimages. A red banner hanging on a large mosque in the Uighur area of Urumqi, the regional capital, says, "Implement the policy of organized and planned pilgrimage; individual pilgrimage is forbidden."
> 
> 9. The government gives various reasons for controlling the hajj. Officials say that the Saudi Arabian government is concerned about crowded conditions in Mecca that have led to fatal tramplings, and that Muslims who leave China on their own sometimes spend too much money on the pilgrimage.Critics say the government is trying to restrict the movements of Uighurs and prevent them from coming into contact with other Muslims, fearing that such exchanges could build a pan-Islamic identity in Xinjiang. About two years ago, the government began confiscating the passports of Uighurs across the region, angering many people. Now virtually no Uighurs have passports, though they can apply for them for short trips.The new restriction has made life especially difficult for businessmen who travel to neighbouring countries.To get a passport to go on an official hajj tour or a business trip, applicants must leave a deposit of nearly $6,000
> 
> What on the bloody hell is this ?
> 
> 10. One man in Kashgar said the imam at his mosque, who like all official imams is paid by the government, had recently been urging congregants to go to Mecca only with legal tours. That is not easy for many Uighurs. The cost of an official trip is the equivalent of $3,700, and hefty bribes usually raise the price. Once a person files an application, the authorities do a background check into the family. If the applicant has children, the children must be old enough to be financially self-sufficient, and the applicant is required to show that he or she has substantial savings in the bank.Rules posted last year on the Xinjiang government's Web site say the applicant must be 50 to 70 years old, "love the country and obey the law." A govt employee might very well lose his pension if he went on the hajj.
> 
> 11. The rules on fasting during Ramadan are just as strict. They vary by town and county but include requiring restaurants to stay open during daylight hours and mandating that women not wear veils and men shave their beards. One rule that officials in some towns seem especially intent on enforcing is the ban on students' fasting. Supporters of this policy say students need to eat to study properly. in Kashgar university locked the gates and put glass shards along the top of a campus wall. tried to force students to eat during the day by prohibiting them from leaving campus in the evening to join their families in breaking the daily fast.




where you get this ?a blog?
maybe you should give us a link from CNN orBBC who r hating China is more useful

i can show you a lot of this kind of article,and you could say we chinese kill muslims instead,or we r anti-Islam ,so make you happy,our Pakistani friends will trust u? and i am sure that a lot of Pakistani r in China now ,in Xinjiang too.they know how china treat Muslims,and China is a best friend to all Islam countries,why there r only some of Uighur r agaist china-------------other Muslims in china?
Hui, Uygur, Kazak, Uzbek, Tajik, Tatar, Kirgiz, Salar, Dongxiang &#65292;baoan

why ?dont fool me


----------



## indiatech

scshqgcm said:


> where you get this ?a blog?
> maybe you should give us a link from CNN orBBC who r hating China is more useful
> 
> i can show you a lot of this kind of article




I don't want to see your article and this is not from western media.This is from travel experience. why you want to know if this is from Blog? You want to ban the site in china?
And I don't want you also to be the official spokesman of china please . Heard enough lectures.
Suggest you to travel to XinJiang. Go see it yourself in Kashgar , khotan etc whats going on . You will see it in the walls , in front of mosques , speaking to Uighurs etc.

Always hear and see both sides. Not only han chinese sides. Whats what we see always.


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## scshqgcm

indiatech said:


> I don't want to see your article and this is not from western media.This is from travel experience. why you want to know if this is from Blog? You want to ban the site in china?
> And I don't want you also to be the official spokesman of china please . Heard enough lectures.
> Suggest you to travel to XinJiang. Go see it yourself in Kashgar , khotan etc whats going on . You will see it in the walls , in front of mosques , speaking to Uighurs etc.
> 
> Always hear and see both sides. Not only han chinese sides. Whats what we see always.



you should say that you r an indian Muslim to make it work,i have Xinjiang friends too,and we all know what problem China face.

you r more like a spokesman of india

This is from travel experience. ------------- yes .who will write travel experience,in this way, where you travle,internet?


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## indiatech

scshqgcm said:


> you should say that you r an indian Muslim to make it work,i have Xinjiang friends too,and we all know what problem China face.
> 
> *you r more like a spokesman of india*



Why are you personally abusing me. Did I say anything in this discussion about India ? You are insane and without words.

Truth is that you always deny the reality and how you treat people. Good luck .


----------



## scshqgcm

indiatech said:


> Why are you personally abusing me. Did I say anything in this discussion about India ? You are insane and without words.
> 
> Truth is that you always deny the reality and how you treat people. Good luck .



this is what you just said,when i said in your way it is a rumor
how funny ,huh?

I don't want to see your article and this is not from western media.This is from travel experience. why you want to know if this is from Blog? You want to ban the site in china?
And I don't want you also to be the official spokesman of china please . Heard enough lectures.
Suggest you to travel to XinJiang. Go see it yourself in Kashgar , khotan etc whats going on . You will see it in the walls , in front of mosques , speaking to Uighurs etc.

Always hear and see both sides. Not only han chinese sides. Whats what we see always.


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## scshqgcm

this is a state media in chinese,just look at the video how they acted,you dont have to accept it,if you dont believe it

&#202;&#211;&#198;&#181;&#163;&#186;&#206;&#218;&#194;&#179;&#196;&#190;&#198;&#235;&#180;&#242;&#212;&#210;&#202;&#194;&#188;&#254;&#201;&#203;&#212;&#177;&#213;&#185;&#202;&#190;&#177;&#179;&#201;&#207;&#201;&#203;&#186;&#219;_&#208;&#194;&#192;&#203;&#202;&#211;&#198;&#181;_&#208;&#194;&#192;&#203;&#205;&#248;
http://video.sina.com.cn/news/c/v/2009-07-07/124740455.shtml
http://video.sina.com.cn/news/c/v/2009-07-07/143940473.shtml


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## Kasrkin

Okay guys, lets keep it cool and make sure this doesn't turn into another one of those flaming threads.

To the Indian members a bit of advice: this must be an emotional time for our Chinese friends much like the Mumbai attacks were for you guys. I suggest you keep the confrontation and baiting on the down-low because once this thing boils over, we will find out who or what was behind this. Until then we can talk about the issues in the region with mutual respect. A little sensitivity on behalf of you guys will go a long way.

To our Chinese friends I would say pretty much the same thing. Keep it cool and be factual. Also scshqgcm I can&#8217;t read anything on the site which you have linked, but I&#8217;ll take your word for it. Just be civil and responsible and don't be baited.

Thanks!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## muse

scshqqcm


Just remember some people are not happy to see China grow but Pakistanis know some people want to make lots of problems for China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## scshqgcm

Kasrkin said:


> Okay guys, lets keep it cool and make sure this doesn't turn into another one of those flaming threads.
> 
> To the Indian members a bit of advice: this must be an emotional time for our Chinese friends much like the Mumbai attacks were for you guys. I suggest you keep the confrontation and baiting on the down-low because once this thing boils over, we will find out who or what was behind this. Until then we can talk about the issues in the region with mutual respect. A little sensitivity on behalf of you guys will go a long way.
> 
> To our Chinese friends I would say pretty much the same thing. Keep it cool and be factual. Also scshqgcm I can&#8217;t read anything on the site which you have linked, but I&#8217;ll take your word for it. Just be civil and responsible and don't be baited.
> 
> Thanks!




all of us r trying our best to cool down,and i hope my fellows not to revenge
if you can not read it ,ok,see the pics or vedio r ok. ------------i just show the difference between protest and riot
i dont want some indians to make this riot to be an anti-china topic,even those whom had been killed r not Muslims
and the terrorists r false muslims,i believe that a true muslim would not kill innocent people----------so ?
so dont make this sh@t with religion,my indian enemy.
my Pakistani friends know how you act


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## aimarraul

make china stronger ,these kind of bias reports from westen media will go away,stop wasting our time on arguing with indian,there is not end.like our premier wen said"&#22810;&#38590;&#20852;&#37030;".


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## gpit

Coolyo said:


> FREE EAST TURKISTAN!
> 
> Pakistanis love our Uighur brothers/sisters! Your persecution will not go unnoticed! Pakistan Zindabad! East Turkistan Zindabad!



What a freaking BS!

East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) was declared a terrorist organisation by United Nations in 2002.

Terrorism Zindabad!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gpit

BSF said:


> Where is our Chinese friend.. O let me guess the great fire wall of China blocked him...



I believe most of them are enjoying vacation or otherwise making big bucks.

Terrorist activities don't help and are doomed to be punished.


----------



## luoshan

scshqgcm said:


> they r in Urumqi,time is changing,you said you r in Beijing?
> 
> ÎÚÂ³Ä¾ÆëÏòÖÐÍâ¼ÇÕßÌá¹©¿íËÉ»·¾³_CCTV.com_ÖÐ¹úÖÐÑëµçÊÓÌ¨
> International News - The New York Times



Yes.. I work in Beijing. 
Times are changing, but the situation has remained same. Last year before the olympics the Chinese government promised more press freedom. For a while it was true. But once the olympics were over, things went back to normal and in some cases even became worse. My cable operator stopped airing CNN, HBO and other international channels. The only english channel I now get is CCTV9 which is just a government mouthpiece and the programs are too boring and predictable. No foreigner watches it. 
A Australian TV reporter friend of mine had to wait 1 month to get permission to cover Sichuan earthquake, by which time he dropped the idea of doing it. He went back in frustration after 1 year of trying to cover the news here.


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## gpit

A1Kaid said:


> Dear Chinese Members and Chinese nation
> 
> I understand you love your country and wish to protect your country and fight for it's ambitions and unity. Though I must say to my great allies and genuine friends that I have a legitimate concern and disagreement with you on the issue of E. Turkistan or the Chinese name given to it "Xinjiang".
> 
> I want to enlighten the fellow Chinese members on some history that I doubt their government would ever share with them.
> 
> 
> In 1933 c.e. The Turkic Uyghurs with a political figure named Sabit Damolla declared independence and founded the Islamic Republic of East Turkistan. East Turkistan had formed an army in place, national institutions, and a national assembly (a legislative branch) after declaring independence.
> 
> In 1944 East Turkistan reaffirmed and re-declared it's independence as it struggled to get international recognition by members state who were hostile to any independent Muslim-Turkic states such as China, Russia, Iran, and Britain.
> 
> 
> Two years later in 1946, the Chinese PLA invaded East Turkistan. The Chinese PLA where never there before or had any presence in East Turkistan. Chinese PLA eventually defeated the Turkic forces their, and captured and occupied the land from. The occupation today continues.
> 
> 
> What is more disturbing is the Chinese have deliberately conducted Nuclear test in East Turkistan near civilian populations, causing the locals to have birth defects, genetic defects, diseases, radiation, and other dreadful pains.
> 
> 
> What the Chinese must understand is the Uyghurs are not your people nor is East Turkistan your land it has never belonged to you, only on your state sponsored Communist maps (in regards to China) is East Turkistan truly considered an integral part of China.
> 
> Uyghurs are not Chinese or share Chinese heritage, they are a Turkic people who belong to the Turan not to the Chinese motherland. Their language is not Chinese they do not speak Mandarin or Cantonese they speak Turkic. Their culture is also different from yours. Let me reiterate, they are not your people and East Turkistan is not nor has ever been your land!
> 
> Today no Uyghur wishes to be apart of China, as a true Uyghur knows his ties and loyalties are with his Turkic and Muslim family. They are restricted to practice Islam freely, attend a Mosque freely, or to do their religious activities without Chinese government approval.
> 
> 
> One final thing I would like to mention, is the Chinese are our dear strategic ally and friends, and as friends I strongly and respectfully disagree with you on "Xinjiang", East Turkistan being apart of China. It would be most beneficial to regional peace and security and mutually beneficial to our relationship that China set free East Turkistan.



Just remind you my friend that the so called independence of ET was under support of Soviet Russia. After intense negotiation later, Soviet allowed CPC to take over XinJiang. 

This happened around the same time that Japanese invaded and weakened China. 

This story is nothing but a small scenario on a Grand Chessboard of international relationship.

Remind you again, Xinjiang's history is far rich and longer than mere 1933! 

It doesn't matter what happen yesterday, today and tomorrow, China will never let go Xinjiang with any cost.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## shravan

gpit said:


> East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) was declared a terrorist organisation by United Nations in 2002.



Do you know why it was declared a Terrorist Organization by United Nations *in 2002.* ?


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## aimarraul

luoshan said:


> Yes.. I work in Beijing.
> Times are changing, but the situation has remained same. Last year before the olympics the Chinese government promised more press freedom. For a while it was true. But once the olympics were over, things went back to normal and in some cases even became worse. My cable operator stopped airing CNN, HBO and other international channels. The only english channel I now get is CCTV9 which is just a government mouthpiece and the programs are too boring and predictable. No foreigner watches it.
> A Australian TV reporter friend of mine had to wait 1 month to get permission to cover Sichuan earthquake, by which time he dropped the idea of doing it. He went back in frustration after 1 year of trying to cover the news here.



we are speaking chinese,we don't need so many english channel,you like watching CNN ,watch on the internet,or go back to mumbai,we are not interest in hearing bias report.is CCTV-9 more boring than "i love you" bollywood?your boss should've checked out the cost for a all-weather translator in Beijing before he assigned you to china


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## gpit

PeacefulIndian said:


> ...
> Let me ask my set of it.
> 
> 1. Was it necessary for the police to use brutal force on a demonstration that was not so violent in its early stages? In other words, does the riot police actually know how to pacify a mob without inciting a violence?



This is why









> 2. How would a 'terrorist' sitting in US influence a mob so much that the entire town goes on a burning spree? If at all the mastermind sits in US, how did he get success of such a magnitude?



Then tell us how Mumbai is attacked? 

How would a 'terrorist' sitting outside of India influence a mob so much that the entire town goes on a burning spree? If at all the mastermind sits outside of India, how did he get success of such a magnitude?



> 3. why is China experiencing a wave of unrest in 2009? Does it have something to do with communism & its imperialistic policies? Have a look at this article -
> China seen facing wave of unrest in 2009 | U.S. | Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> This warning was given in early January. And you are watching with your own eyes what is going on.



I believe all these should be within expectation. Remind you that India is the most terrorism stricken country. While China may experience a wave in 2009, India experiences it year-round and decade-round. Have you ever asked yourself why?



> Global Terrorism Indicator (most recent) by country
> 1 India
> .
> .
> .
> 25 China
> 
> Global Terrorism Indicator statistics - countries compared - NationMaster



Congratulations on your being number 1, *but your glee is more than just pathetic*.


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## gpit

shravan said:


> Do you know why it was declared a Terrorist Organization by United Nations *in 2002.* ?



Because it is a terrorist organization, And watch out for your IQ!


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## shravan

gpit said:


> Because it is a terrorist organization, And watch out for your IQ!



Resolution of Iraq. Do you remember that......


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## gpit

IsReal said:


> Rubiya Kadeer And The Chinese Riot Connection
> July 6th, 2009 - 6:48 pm ICT by GD ::
> 
> ...
> Rubiya Kadeer has allegedly appealed to the rioters &#8220;to be braver&#8221; and &#8220;to do something big.&#8221;
> 
> Last week she has been quoted saying,&#8221;Uighurs have suffered for years under racial profiling and unjust government policies that have painted the entire Uighur population as criminals and terrorists.&#8221;
> ...
> 
> Rubiya Kadeer And The Chinese Riot Connection



Folks, *the Uighurs are not just attacking Han. They also attacking muslim Hui.* Is this so called "doing big"?

This is a complex issue and it appears that Chinese government hasn't been effective in resolving this for decades.


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## gpit

Speeder said:


> @cloycy
> 
> I think you've made a mistake here. XinJiang is NOT their land, but more Han Chinese' land form historical point of view.
> 
> The ethnics in XinJiang started off by some nomad tribes such as Qiang, Xiongnu (hun), Kozaks, etc. *Han Chinese was alongst the first ethncis to settle there in history, with constant migration happened proir to 220 BC.* But mass migration of Han Chinese didn't occur until West Han Dynasty about 190 AD, when Han emporers defeated the nomads and started to promote this kind of Han settlements in the region. However, due to XinJiang's hash climate, it has never been a part of Han Chinese heartlands.
> 
> Uigurs originated in today's Tukey, thousands of miles away from XinJiang. How comes XinJing is their homeland, but not Han Chinese'??? *Turkic Uigurs didn't mass-migrate into today's XinJing until around Tang Dynasty - about 600-800 AD according to history!!!*
> 
> *Therefore it is a misnomer to say that XinJiang is Uigurs' native land. Han Chinese , alongside with Kosaks, Qiang, Hun and even Moguls are much more entitled to the land objectively speaking.*



The problem today is that some shallow minded people just want to wallow in a rare glee by screwing true history...


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## A1Kaid

gpit said:


> Just remind you my friend that the so called independence of ET was under support of Soviet Russia. After intense negotiation later, *Soviet allowed CPC to take over XinJiang*.
> 
> This happened around the same time that Japanese invaded and weakened China.
> 
> This story is nothing but a small scenario on a Grand Chessboard of international relationship.
> 
> Remind you again, Xinjiang's history is far rich and longer than mere 1933!
> 
> It doesn't matter what happen yesterday, today and tomorrow, China will never let go Xinjiang with any cost.



First of all American, don't you dare lecture me on history. If anyone needs a good lecture on history it's your people.




> "Just remind you my friend that the so called independence of ET was under support of Soviet Russia. After intense negotiation later, *Soviet allowed CPC to take over XinJiang*



Yeah just like the British ratifying the the Balfour Declaration in 1917, which gave away Palestine to the Zionist. Now what right does Britain have to give the Jews/Zionist someone else s homeland? None whatsoever. It doesn't make it morally right nor is it justified in fact it is criminal.

Now let me teach you something here American, the province you and the Chinese refer to as "Xinjiang" (in Chinese 
*&#26032;&#30028;*) means in English "*New Territory*"*. It is New territory or new frontier! Face it it was Chinese imperialism in historic Turkic lands that resulted in the occupation of East Turkistan. A source is available below.

Xinjiang: China's Muslim borderland - Google Books


And none of what you have said discounts my previous points.

"Uyghurs are not Chinese or share Chinese heritage, they are a Turkic people who belong to the Turan not to the Chinese motherland. Their language is not Chinese they do not speak Mandarin or Cantonese they speak Turkic. Their culture is also different from yours. Let me reiterate, they are not your people and East Turkistan is not nor has ever been your land!"-A1Kaid

You cannot disapprove not one point I made, because I stand on the facts.

It's funny how you Americans call for the freedom of Taiwan and Tibet and support Dalai Lama's freedom movement, you even allowed him in the White House (Bush tenure) with a decked out event. Yet, when it comes to East Turkistan you become hypocrites.

Quite frankly, I'm not interested in US opinion nor do I care for US foreign desires.





> "Remind you again, Xinjiang's history is far rich and longer than mere 1933! "



I already pointed that out, the Uyghur Turks have been living in East Turkistan for thousands of years, they cultivated the land, the raised the cities, gardens, they named the towns, and their ancestry is in Central Asia, the Turkic homeland. What you fail to understand is, 1933 is a significant date in the modern time line of this "Grand Chessboard" you talk about, but your an American what do I expect. Always wanting to mingle and have your say in Asian/Eastern affairs.




> "It doesn't matter what happen yesterday, today and tomorrow, China will never let go Xinjiang with any cost."



See here, "It doesn't matter", this is a very typical attitude you types have, what doesn't matter is your opinion. Actually the history does matter. I understand some feel China will never let go of "Xinjiang" or it's occupied "New Territory" but their are things that can be done that will not be discussed.


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## muse

A1Kaid

You have a US flag by your name, aren't you also an American? Weigur are Turkic, so ? You are American, you are not anglo saxon or hispanic, or African Amerrican

What's you beef with the brother ally?


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## A1Kaid

muse said:


> A1Kaid
> 
> You have a US flag by your name, aren't you also an American? Weigur are Turkic, so ? You are American, you are not anglo saxon or hispanic, or African Amerrican
> 
> What's you beef with the brother ally?



What is your point? Also just because I live here I should not criticize Americans and their attitudes and ignorance?

You have a problem with what I say?

I find it very pathetic when others post simple minded suggestions and just look at a flag below my avatar (indicating current location) and think this flag is suppose to tell you about my identity.

Your question deserves no direct answer, because the merit and suggestion of your question is absolutely meaningless.

Also please don't derail the thread it would be nice if you could stay on topic, thanks.


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## muse

Easy, Don't get your panties in a twist - So, you live safely in the US and want to vent at gpit??

What's your beef?


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## notsuperstitious

Dear Muse,

The flags can be misleading or rather meaningless. GPIT is an ethnic Chinese and has criticized USA in favour of China in the past IIRC.


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## A1Kaid

muse said:


> Easy, Don't get your panties in a twist - So, you live safely in the US and want to vent at gpit??
> 
> What's your beef?



Your a Senior Member, please don't derail this thread. It's nothing personal between me and gpit. My advice, don't take it personal. It was not my intention to come off that way, but it was my intention to let the individual know he is in no position to lecture me on this particular history, I find it arrogant and insulting of the individual.

Now I hope I only have to say this one more time, please don't derail the thread.

End of this side talk.


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## XiaoLei

zombie said:


> So does the state media post images of its crackdown on the uighur muslims and all the folks they killed earlier? Does such things make the chinese angry or only when the hans are killed?
> 
> Give an honest answer if you can instead of going off in flames.



Please,how brainwashed you are! If you have not been china,please stop looking at china through rose-colored spectacles.
I have been India, I know most Indian are nice and friendly people.please stop it, if you are really interested in china, go to china,all chinese will open their arms and welcome you, and you can find the truth there.
I donot say china is a democratic country, I admit china is a developing country and still have a lot of problems,but I do know chinese government didnot discriminate muslim,there is no crackdown on uighur muslim.


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## muse

A1kaid

This ends when we can resolve your problem and the sooner you get that the sooner we can get on a more civil plane.

So, what's your beef? Are you one of those people who want to have "stirred up *******" ? Do you support East Turkestan terrorists? Do you know that expressing support for terrorism can have consequences ? 

Am I getting through to you?


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## quriosity

i studied china muslims... hui people are biggest muslims in china... then uighurs, kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Salar, Tajiks of Xinjiang, Uzbeks, Bonan, Chinese Tatars, and Tibetan Muslims... :0

hui muslims 9.8 million, uighur 8.4 million.... 

here the source: 

Islam in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslims in China - History of Islam in China

Origin of Silaturrahim Tour

china oppress muslims... very bad... am angry... china bad... china give uighurs east trukistan, china give hui seperate country... china give kazakh separate country... china give salar separate country... china give kyrgyz separate country... china giv tajiks seperate country... china give uzbeks separete country... china give bonan separate country... china give tatars separate country... 

every muslim ethnic group take separate country... it good... very good.... i am happy... 

china oppresses uighurs... becoz they muslims... very bad... china give east turkestan.... free east turkestan... Pakistan will be friend to free east turkestan... bush will happy... 







World Uyghur Congress | Bush meets China's exiled Uighur leader (2007.06.07)

Bush gets oil from east turkestan.... nato will comes... kill all east turkestan muslims... get oil... america will profit... we happy... all happy.... 


but tomorow pakhtun muslim people, baloch muslim people.... All they of Pakistan will demand seperate free country...


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## 2008nnd

Vassnti said:


> The one thing no one seems to have raised is who the dead actually are.
> 
> 156 dead 800 injured by most sources but the goverment isnt saying who they were.
> 
> The Han posting here are crying for blood but has any one stopped to think that most of those casualties are probably Uighurs?
> 
> There seem to be lots of reports of Han chinese beeing beaten and reobbed, stores looted or cars burnt and yes these things are wrong but no reports i have seen of Uighurs killing any one.
> 
> 1000 protesters with sticks rocks and knives, 20,000 police with automatic weapons and APC's. If the killing of 2 Uighurs caused a riot i guess the goverment would want to keep the killing of over 100 rather quiet.



the western media never change their bias to china, like "The leopard cannot change his spots" or "A fox may turn gray,but never kind"


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## muse

fateh



> The flags can be misleading or rather meaningless. GPIT is an ethnic Chinese and has criticized USA in favour of China in the past IIRC



He can criticism anybody or anything, so can anyone else, all I am doing is asking for a reason why A1 is pursuing the line thagt he is.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## rubyjackass

True. Be factual and not overly sensitive.

The claims of the exiled Uighur lady were only that the issue STARTED as a peaceful protest. The body count clearly says its not just that. As long as there is no verifiable report, nothing can be said for or against any group. Similarly the point raised by Kasrkin is also important. There is simply no evidence as to what the involvement of the state forces were. Honestly we dont know what to believe especially when the news is so controlled. 

Also I dont understand the concept of information blockade that came into force. May be that helps in case of terrorist attacks. But does it, when we are talking about riots? Somebody care to explain? In fact with proper information channels people can be told where the police have maintained secure places for them.


I have not seen a video with Uighur views from China so far.
Please post links if you have any.


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## jxzz

Video and text source from China Daily. Search Google news "Islamic leader condemns Xinjiang riots" to get original source

Video in Chinese and Uighur language, 
English text:

Islamic leader condemns Xinjiang riots
(chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2009-07-08 01:10
The deadly violence in Urumqi stirred by separatist rioters that has killed 156 people violated the tenets of the Holy Quran that preaches peace and harmony, a religious leader said Tuesday at a press conference.

Sporadic conflicts and protests continued as of Tuesday afternoon in the riot-hit capital city of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, where separatist troublemakers took vandalism spree on the streets, shed hacks randomly on passers-by and torched vehicles in blaze since Sunday night. 

"Uygurs are well known for their hospitality. Those rioters are not representatives of the Uygur people," said Abudurekefu Akhond, member of the standing committee of the China Islamic Association.

"The Islam creed advocates peace and harmony", he added. "Different ethnic groups should show respect to and learn from each other with mutual understanding."


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## jxzz

Senior Muslim leader condemns violence in Xinjiang
2009-07-07 18:52 BJT

Source: CCTV

A senior Islamic leader has condemned the violence in Xinjiang. Imam Chen Guangyuan, head of China Islamic Association, said rioters who took part in the violence in Urumqi do not represent the spirit of Islam and their criminal behavior is not what Muslims should do. Imam Chen called on China's Muslims to unite and firmly against the violence, maintain social stability and the country's territorial integrity.

Imam Chen called on China's Muslims to unite and firmly against the
violence, maintain social stability and the country's territorial integrity.

China's Muslim society condemns the violence in Xinjiang.

Imam Chen Guangyuan says Islam is a religion of peace and Muslims pursue harmony and unity. The rioters' activities are only concerned with separating China and hampering its development.

"After the incident on July 5, we have received many calls from Muslims around China, strongly condemning the violence and firmly opposing separation activities. They also sent their condolences to the victims of the violence," said Imam Chen Guangyuan.

Imam Chen said their behavior cannot be tolerated in a harmonious society. He called on the country's Muslims not to believe in rumors and stay away from illegal activities.

"I hope Muslims uphold the tradition of Islam and maintain China's territorial integrity and economic development. We must unite to condemn and stop violence. We completely agree with law enforcement's strong and swift actions to curb crimes," said Imam Chen Guangyuan.

So far, the violence in Xinjiang has caused over 150 people dead and more than 1,000 injured.


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## oct605032048

Vassnti said:


> The one thing no one seems to have raised is who the dead actually are.
> 
> 156 dead 800 injured by most sources but the goverment isnt saying who they were.
> 
> The Han posting here are crying for blood but has any one stopped to think that most of those casualties are probably Uighurs?
> 
> There seem to be lots of reports of Han chinese beeing beaten and reobbed, stores looted or cars burnt and yes these things are wrong but no reports i have seen of Uighurs killing any one.
> 
> 1000 protesters with sticks rocks and knives, 20,000 police with automatic weapons and APC's. If the killing of 2 Uighurs caused a riot i guess the goverment would want to keep the killing of over 100 rather quiet.



*The riot suddenly broke in the center of the city of urumqi* in which *over 70% its population is Han*, and the victims were people walking home or passengers on buses. i can't rule out the possibility that there may be uiger people injured during the deadly 3 hours, but anyone with common sense could figure out that most people dead or killed by the attackers were not the uigher.

as the question about the vidio evidence of the procedure of killing, well , i think you are too critical about the press and the reporters in xinjiang, they are not hired to wait and take photos about the procedure of killing all day long along the streets. 

it was just too quickly everyone just run for their lives. besides, the lack of direct evidence dosen't prevent some western media to write about what they believe .


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## oct605032048

gpit said:


> Folks, *the Uighurs are not just attacking Han. They also attacking muslim Hui.* Is this so called "doing big"?
> 
> This is a complex issue and it appears that Chinese government hasn't been effective in resolving this for decades.



yeah in my opinion, the bigger problem is that the Han people may lose their faith about the govn and just pour their anger and revenge back. that maybe the last thing that uigher people would like to see, and obviously kadeer and her friends dosen't care at all.

they are safe under the shelter of US and erope.


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## oct605032048

luoshan said:


> Yes.. I work in Beijing.
> Times are changing, but the situation has remained same. Last year before the olympics the Chinese government promised more press freedom. For a while it was true. But once the olympics were over, things went back to normal and in some cases even became worse. My cable operator stopped airing CNN, HBO and other international channels. The only english channel I now get is CCTV9 which is just a government mouthpiece and the programs are too boring and predictable. No foreigner watches it.
> A Australian TV reporter friend of mine had to wait 1 month to get permission to cover Sichuan earthquake, by which time he dropped the idea of doing it. He went back in frustration after 1 year of trying to cover the news here.



well not everyone in china likes the party and her foolish propergnda. 
Sence some people can read english and have chances to visit the web site of bbc
or something like that, by comparing what was writen in these articles and what is happenning just in their homeland, they need not to be a doctor to draw the conclusion that bbc cnn etc. sucks.


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## jxzz

Vassnti:

Most dead of 156 are Han, not Uighurs. Governments have not released this figure, however, neutral source can confirm this. Here is UK source:

Peter Foster UK Telegraph blog from ground in Urumqi:
Uighur unrest: not another Tiananmen 
I can not post URL, please search Google for "Peter Foster".


Uighur unrest: not another Tiananmen


By Peter Foster World Last updated: July 7th, 2009

43 Comments Comment on this article

This from Urumqi in Xinjiang where I awoke this morning to the sound of army boots pounding on the city&#8217;s main People&#8217;s Square as squads of Chinese riot police and other paramilitary performed their morning drills.

A veneer of calm hangs over the city today despite the heavy presence of police and armoured cars on the streets, however even at this early stage I think it&#8217;s safe to predict that it is going to take a long time for the wounds of Sunday&#8217;s events to heal in this ethnically divided society.

Beijing has moved swiftly not only to calm the streets but also to control the reporting environment, corralling the large international media presence in a single hotel.

They&#8217;ve done this not by force, but by the simple expediency of limiting internet access to a single location (a hotel off the People&#8217;s Square), and like animals on the plain who graduate to the last waterhole in times of drought, the world&#8217;s journalists have had little choice but to congregate here.

Long-standing China commentators have been astonished at the speed at which Beijing has moved to seize the news agenda on this event, releasing casualty figures by lunchtime on Monday when in previous situations (the Tibet riots in March last year for example) it&#8217;s taken 24 hours for official media to even acknowledge that any event took place at all.

So why the speed this time? Are we witnessing a sudden opening up of China&#8217;s information environment, a media-savvy change of heart on the part of China&#8217;s rulers who only last month were pressing for installation of Green Dam internet censorship software on every computer in China?

I think that is unlikely. The logical, if more cynical, reason is that on this one China doesn&#8217;t have a great deal to hide.

There was a presumption among the foreign media - made from afar as correspondents scrambled to get to Urumqi - that most of the 156 victims of Sunday&#8217;s riot were Uighurs. The implication being that they had been killed by security forces - another Tiananmen, if you will.

This never quite stacked up, as very few witnesses reported that the police had opened fire. In fact most reported the use of batons, electric prods and tear gas and other non-lethal methods to disperse the riot.

And why, if security forces had been responsible for the bulk of the deaths, would China be facilitating such unprecedented access to hospitals, holding press conferences (planned for later today) and allowing reporters to tour the city.

It now appears - and I base this on reports from the first government-organised tour of Urumqi&#8217;s hospitals yesterday - that most of the injured were Han Chinese with stab or head wounds inflicted during the riots.

According to those reports of 274 patients being treated in the People&#8217;s hospital 233 were Han - mostly suffering from stab and head wounds - 29 Uighur and 15 from the Hui Muslim minority.

Many details remain to be confirmed, not least whether police actions in breaking up an initially peaceful demonstration helped provoke the violence.

However if those numbers are correct - and I&#8217;ll working to firm up details in reports today - the next phase is to see how China handles that potentially highly inflammatory piece of news at such a critical moment for Uighur-Han relations.


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## oct605032048

They owe their fellow citizens an apology.


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## BSF

> well not everyone in china likes the party and her foolish propergnda.
> Sence some people can read english and have chances to visit the web site of bbc
> or something like that, by comparing what was writen in these articles and what is happenning just in their homeland, they need not to be a doctor to draw the conclusion that bbc cnn etc. sucks.



Ya....I am quite sure CCTV is great.


> it was just too quickly everyone just run for their lives. besides, the lack of direct evidence dosen't prevent some western media to write about what they believe .



Neither does it prevent you from writing.!!!


> the western media never change their bias to china, like "The leopard cannot change his spots" or "A fox may turn gray,but never kind"


Did PRC change any "spots".?
The Olympics were given to them on the condition that they will improve their human rights track records...what happened ?

"People who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others"


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## quriosity

i see han people & uighur people look almost same... i found they all mongoloids... 

*Mongoloid - Peoples in the Mongoloid race*

Mongoloid - Han Chinese

The Han Chinese are by far the most populous Mongoloid "group"; indeed, they are often said to be the largest single group of any race. However, they are really not a truly coherent, single ethnicity. The concept of a unified group of Han Chinese is more so a cultural anthropological concept rather than an biological anthropological one. Studies have shown that the North Chinese are closer to Northern Mongoloids such as Koreans and Japanese, while the South Chinese are closer to their immediate Southern counterparts like the Lao and Vietnamese. However there is also much evidence to support that the modern Han Chinese have descended from the south, due to the predominance of the O3/M122-type Y-gene, which traces its origin to Southwest China.


Mongoloid - Turkic Mongoloids

In Central Asia, the Uzbeks, the Uighur, the Kyrgyz, and the Kazakhs show strong Turkic Mongoloid elements, which would make them the Western cousins of the Mongolians. However, among them, and especially among Uzbeks and Uyghurs in particular, one may notice a continuum of physical types that ranges from Mongoloid to Europoid Caucasoid. This tends to also be true among the modern Tatars (Bulgars) and Bashkirs. Historically, the Huns and the ancient Tatars have been considered to belong to the Mongoloid family. The Turkmen, while are still Central Asian Turkic-Mongoloids, have mixed heavily with Caucasoid neighbours to the west, and many of the even more westerly Turkic-speakers, such as those in Azerbaijan appear to have little or no visible Mongoloid ancestry, although many may have less visible Mongoloid features. Turks in Turkey have an amount of Mongoloid features that is related to the amount of actual Turkic ancestry present in the individuals considered. This is variable in Turkey due to the varied ancestry of most of the population. While many scholars explain the variablity of the physical characteristics of Turkic Mongoloids as the result of intermixing with Caucasoids, some propose that there may have at one point been a distinct Turkic Mongoloid group, with particular and distinct physical characteristics.

Mongoloid: Encyclopedia II - Mongoloid - Peoples in the Mongoloid race

why so big ethnic fighting...?


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## BSF

> They owe their fellow citizens an apology.



Who apologies to who?
The hans apologies to Ughirs or the Ughirs apologies to hans...or do you want the Islamist leaders to apologize to PRC ?
Please make your statement clear


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## jxzz

oct605032048 said:


> They owe their fellow citizens an apology.




Terrorists won't apologize to anyone. They kill.


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## quriosity

BSF said:


> Who apologies to who?
> The hans apologies to Ughirs or the Ughirs apologies to hans...or do you want the Islamist leaders to apologize to PRC ?
> Please make your statement clear



but... han chinese are not muslims... 

Hui people, Uyghur people, Kazak, Dongxiang people, Kyrgyz, Salar, Tajiks of Xinjiang, Uzbeks, Bonan, Chinese Tatars, and Tibetan Muslims... are muslims... 

Ethnic Groups

Muslims live in every region in China. The highest concentrations are found in the northwest provinces of Xinjiang, Gansu, and Ningxia, with significant populations also found throughout Yunnan province in southwest China and Henan Province in central China. Of China&#8217;s 55 officially recognized minority peoples, ten groups are predominately Muslim. The largest groups in descending order are Hui (9.8 million in year 2000 census, or 48&#37; of the officially tabulated number of Muslims), Uyghur (8.4 million, 41%), Kazakh (1.25 million , 6.1%), Dongxiang (514,000, 2.5%), Kyrgyz (161,000), Salar (105,000), Tajik (41,000), Uzbeks, Bonan (17,000), and Tatar (5,000). However, individual members of traditionally Muslim ethnic groups may profess other religions or none at all. Additionally, Tibetan Muslims are officially classified along with the Tibetan people, unlike the Hui who are classified as a separate people, even though they are indistinguishable from the Han. Muslims live predominantly in the areas that border Central Asia, Tibet and Mongolia, i.e Xinjiang, Ningxia, Gansu and Qinghai, which is known as the "Quran Belt". 

Islam in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## oct605032048

dear BSF

1 i don't like some progress of cctv and what's more i sometimes take the news reported by cctv as a new news for it represent the thoughts of the authorty. but it is not the point of my post . Yes we need a more free press but Save your words on cctv though we may share the same attitude towards these magnus press and i'm not the one who throw stones.

2 the less-free environment of press in china dosen't automatically garantee that all the west reports are correct . Especially when it comes to the report in china. because we get imformation not only from the TV but also from other souses. the net, though it is been censored it provide an pretty fast an free way of knowledge; the eyes of mine and my friends&#65292; school mates&#65292;collegues&#65292; relatives and so on&#12290; of course we know what happens here better than the one set by the coffee machine in building of BBC 10 thousand miles away. Please do not hold these ideas that all the people in china are stupid enough too be cheated neither by the party or by other institutes such as XCC and CXX.


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## jxzz

Most likely, lots of Hui muslims were killed in riots too. 

Based on the report, terrorists used face and language to pick on Han to kill. By that method, Hui would be killed or injured together with Han in Urumqi because Hui look like Han and Hui usually do not speak Uighur language either. Hui typically live in citiesand usually are good at business. Most likely Hui are there too in Urumqi.


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## jxzz

quriosity:

Your figure is in China whole. In Xinjiang, Hui has much smaller &#37; of population. The 2 largest are Uighur and Han. Kazak probably third, and Hui 4th.


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## quriosity

jxzz said:


> Most likely, lots of Hui muslims were killed in riots too.
> 
> Based on the report, terrorists used face and language to pick on Han to kill. By that method, Hui would be killed or injured together with Han in Urumqi because Hui look like Han and Hui usually do not speak Uighur language either. Hui typically live in citiesand usually are good at business. Most likely Hui are there too in Urumqi.



yes... i know...  all know... but America dont want to know...


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## jxzz

Kazak usually do not live in cities because they are nomads. Hui for the most part are as successful as Han and many times are businessmen. 

My guess is that in Urunqi, Han biggest, Uighur 2nd, Hui third in terms of population.


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## oct605032048

han people consist of about 75&#37; of the population, and uighur groups make up about 10%~15%.


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## jxzz

Racial relationship between Hui and Uighur in the past were not good either. According to my personal research and online chat with folks in CHina in Xinjiang over past, Uighurs typically hate Hui as much as hate Han. 

Therefore, in the past 100 years racial based conflicts or wars, many times Hui sat on the sides of Hans against Uighurs. 

The recent conflict was more of race conflict, rather than religion.


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## quriosity

jxzz said:


> Racial relationship between Hui and Uighur in the past were not good either. According to my personal research and online chat with folks in CHina in Xinjiang over past, Uighurs typically hate Hui as much as hate Han.
> 
> Therefore, in the past 100 years racial based conflicts or wars, many times Hui sat on the sides of Hans against Uighurs.
> 
> The recent conflict was more of race conflict, rather than religion.



if they so racist... send them to Israel for schooling... if they come alive.. they understand unity... hi hi hi  

sorry... just joking...


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## oct605032048

There are some very bloody pictures but the authority dosn't want them to be published for the reason that these would raise the anger of Han people against the uighur groups, and the blockade and the shut down of many BBS are basically for the same purpose.
So what on the TV actually has been 'softened'
&#206;&#218;&#194;&#179;&#196;&#190;&#198;&#235;&#180;&#242;&#212;&#210;&#199;&#192;&#201;&#213;&#209;&#207;&#214;&#216;&#183;&#184;&#215;&#239;&#202;&#194;&#188;&#254;&#203;&#192;&#213;&#223;&#202;&#253;&#212;&#246;&#214;&#193;156&#200;&#203;_&#208;&#194;&#206;&#197;&#214;&#208;&#208;&#196;_&#208;&#194;&#192;&#203;&#205;&#248;

http://news.ifeng.com/mainland/special/wulumuqisaoluan/zuixinbaodao/200907/0708_7229_1238932.shtml

http://www.takungpao.com/inc/photo/photo_cont.asp?nid=1109237&cid=853&c=&id=397584


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## quriosity

han people are very angry.... they say govt is too much soft... they hunting for uighur people on streets... the uighurs in police custody are safe.... but those not in custody.... god help them...


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## jxzz

The first post Abudurekefu Akhond is a Uighur muslim, speaking Uighur only. 

The 2nd post Imam Chen Guangyuan is a Hui muslim, speaking Han Chinese. 

Just to be clear about the 2 leaders racial profile.


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## oct605032048

quriosity said:


> if they so racist... send them to Israel for schooling... if they come alive.. they understand unity... hi hi hi
> 
> sorry... just joking...



what happened in urumqi is not a joke and there is no joking at all when innosant passengers being slaughtered.


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## jxzz

rubyjackass:

I posted Islamic leaders against riots, find video as I posted there. The first articel were 3 Uighur islamic leaders' views, only English text, and speaking in Uighur and CHinese translation. 

There are losts of overseas Uighur anti-Chinese views on web, which you can find easily. They only provide false information this time.


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## quriosity

oct605032048 said:


> what happened in urumqi is not a joke and there is no joking at all when innosant passengers being slaughtered.



i said Uighurs are racists... sorry... my english bad...


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## quriosity

jxzz said:


> There are losts of overseas Uighur anti-Chinese views on web, which you can find easily. They only provide false information this time.



they are not overseas Uighurs ...lol.... they have different idenity... they pretend Uighurs... but not uighurs...


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## jxzz

Gansu, and Ningxia: Dominantly Hui muslim
Xinjiang: Dominantly Uighur muslim. 

Being neibor geographicly, Hui and Uighur historically fought wars and conflicts many times in past 100 years.


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## jxzz

Well, The World Uighur Congress, the mastermind behind the event published different (false) account on the event. This group has HQ in Washington DC, and got money from US government.


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## jxzz

Well, The World Uighur Congress, the mastermind behind the event published different (false) account on the event. This group has HQ in Washington DC, and got money from US government.


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## quriosity

jxzz said:


> Well, The World Uighur Congress, the mastermind behind the event published different (false) account on the event. This group has HQ in Washington DC, and got money from US government.









World Uyghur Congress | Bush meets China's exiled Uighur leader (2007.06.07)

rebia khatun not in Iran, Pakistan, dubai... but in washington.... hmmm... golmal hai bhai sab gol mal he...


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## oct605032048

quriosity said:


> han people are very angry.... they say govt is too much soft... they hunting for uighur people on streets... the uighurs in police custody are safe.... but those not in custody.... god help them...



i am angry and yes the govn. is toooooo soft *but* i don't think the majority of Han group would do the same thing that some stupid group of Uighur did in Sunday.

it has been said about thousands of han people&#65288;even including children and women&#65289; walk on to street hand in hand&#65292;some with some home-made weapons for a demonstration ______ and express their dis-consant to the govn. for its' failure in protecting the citizens and at the same time there were about 200 uighur women with children calling for freeing their relatives but basically speaking military policemen make sure that all the demonstrations goes peacefully and no more blood and death. and after a call for pease and faith of the govn. by the party chief of xinjiang, today there are only a few demonstrations of Han citizens&#12290;

ÐÂ½®Ãñ×å¹ØÏµ¶ñ»¯ ººÈË³Ö¹÷ÉÏ½Ö

Reactions: Like Like:
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## moha199

scshqgcm said:


> you r trying to make,do you think that we r fools,this is not a muslim problem,i dont get what you said


You are the best lol


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## moha199

scshqgcm said:


> you should say that you r an indian Muslim to make it work,i have Xinjiang friends too,and we all know what problem China face.
> 
> you r more like a spokesman of india
> 
> This is from travel experience. ------------- yes .who will write travel experience,in this way, where you travle,internet?


hahahah you are funny but good Thanks to you lol


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## oct605032048

By Hu Yinan, Lei Xiaoxun and Zhao Huanxin (China Daily)
Updated: 2009-07-08 07:40
Comments(0) PrintMail

Officials appeal for calm






URUMQI: Xinjiang authorities declared a traffic curfew in the regional capital from 9 pm last night to 8 am today as part of heightened measures to quell escalating violence.

The move came after chaos hit the city again yesterday afternoon, less than two days after a riot in which 156 people were killed and more than 1,000 injured.

As of yesterday, more than 209 shops were damaged and 260 vehicles, including 11 belonging to the police, were torched.

"The casualty rate and loss from this incident are the most severe in Xinjiang since the establishment of the People's Republic of China," the city's Party chief, Li Zhi, told a press conference yesterday.

Officials appeal for calm

"This is not a single, ethnic issue. The violence has not only impeached the peace and order of Xinjiang, it has also ignited anger among people," Urumqi Mayor Jerla Isamudin said.

Many countries, including the United States, the United Kingdom and Turkey condoled the loss of life.

Attacks on Chinese embassies on Monday in the Netherlands and Germany by mobs that included people demanding an independent "Eastern Turkestan" were condemned by the Foreign Ministry yesterday.

Spokesman Qin Gang said both countries pledged to protect the buildings and staff.

Police in Urumqi have arrested 1,434 suspects in connection with Sunday evening's riot, according to official sources.

Li Yi, head of the publicity department of the Party's Xinjiang regional committee, said yesterday that the suspects were made up of 1,379 men and 55 women.

"The police have started interrogating the suspects," Li said, adding that those who were found not to be involved in the riot would be released.

Wang Lequan, Party secretary of the Xinjiang regional committee, in a televised speech, urged ethnic groups to avoid confrontation in a region where Han Chinese make up about 40 percent of the population, with 47 other ethnic groups including the Uygur, Hui, Kazak and Mongolian forming the rest.

But several thousand protesters marched on Youhao and Guangming streets toward Erdaoqiao Road in downtown Urumqi yesterday afternoon, Xinhua reported.

Holding clubs, knives, axes and hammers, they shouted: "Protecting our homes! Protecting our family members!"

They were stopped by units of armed police and no clashes were reported.

Li Zhi, the Urumqi Party chief, rushed to the scene at about 4:30 pm to appease them.

"Uygur people and Han Chinese are brothers and sisters, we are a family," the official said through a loudspeaker, while repeatedly asking the crowds to disperse .

Many of the protesters began to persuade others to refrain from extreme action, "otherwise those who instigated the deadly Sunday violence would be very happy to see more unrest", a man said while listening to Li.

The crowds spontaneously sang the national anthem and most gradually dispersed in about 40 minutes.

However, more than 50 of them, armed with shovels and wooden sticks, started marching toward Longquan Street, where a well-known Uygur residential area is located and police vehicles were torched on Sunday night.

More than 70 police officers arrived at the scene, and fired rubber bullets to bring the situation under control.

Wang said such confrontations were "entirely unnecessary".

"Everyone should keep a clear mind. It's pointless and heartbreaking if the Han ethnic group target innocent Uygur people," he said.

"Even the families of those who participated in the riots are innocent. We should keep a sober mind and not fall into the trap of our enemies. We should not target our ethnic sisters and brothers."

Before the appeal for calm, groups of Uygurs staged protests yesterday morning, against the hopes of many in the capital for life to return to normal soon.

At least 200 took to the streets of downtown Urumqi at about 10:30 am yesterday, during a visit by a group of foreign reporters.

They were reportedly demanding the release of family members whom they said had been taken away by authorities on Monday night.

The authorities are sparing no efforts to protect the security of the people from all ethnic backgrounds, Li said.

More than 1,000 contingency medical squads have been dispatched and more than 20 local hospitals have been designated as part of rescue efforts, authorities said.

"All the injured have received the best medical treatment," Wang said.

The government will support and compensate bereaved families and help restore the businesses of those who suffered losses, he said.

Li said the authorities also had "solid evidence" that Rebiya Kadeer, the leader of the separatist World Uygur Congress, suspected of instigating the attacks, used the Internet and other forms of networks to mobilize rioters.

The government has put temporary restrictions on the Internet and other communication networks.

"Everything will be restored soon after the situation becomes stable," Li said.

Xinhua contributed to the story


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## quriosity

oct605032048 said:


> i am angry and yes the govn. is toooooo soft *but* i don't think the majority of Han group would do the same thing that some stupid group of Uighur did in Sunday.
> 
> it has been said about thousands of han people&#65288;even including children and women&#65289; walk on to street hand in hand&#65292;some with some home-made weapons for a demonstration ______ and express their dis-consant to the govn. for its' failure in protecting the citizens and at the same time there were about 200 uighur women with children calling for freeing their relatives but basically speaking military policemen make sure that all the demonstrations goes peacefully and no more blood and death. and after a call for pease and faith of the govn. by the party chief of xinjiang, today there are only a few demonstrations of Han citizens&#12290;
> 
> &#208;&#194;&#189;&#174;&#195;&#241;&#215;&#229;&#185;&#216;&#207;&#181;&#182;&#241;&#187;&#175; &#186;&#186;&#200;&#203;&#179;&#214;&#185;&#247;&#201;&#207;&#189;&#214;



i cant imagine Israelis in place of Han people.... if uighurs do same in my country India.... no uighur will be left alive... we dont tolerate terrorism...


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## oct605032048

The purpose of the post of the pictures and my argues here is to reveal the truth and disclose some misleading imformation set out by some(maybe all of) west media to the pakistani and indian friends.

in my opinion Han is peacing loving people and we wouldn't turn the spear of revenge to the uighur group and even to the close relatives of the extremests and criminals who are also our countrymen and brothers, 

because 
By far i still have faith with the authority that the criminals will be punished according to the law 
and the mainstream of uighur groups are not with the extremists 
and there are something must be done to prevent tradgedies like the one in last sunday from happening again.

besides i hope this post will help many old friends on this forum to have a better understanding about what happened in urumqi and i would say your understanding and support is of great value and importance to people in deep grief and sorrow.


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## oct605032048

President Hu shortens visit to Italy and goes back home

President Hu shortens visit to Italy and goes back home
By Sun Shangwu (chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2009-07-08 07:15
Comments(11) PrintMail

FLORENCE, Italy: The situation in Xinjiang has shortened President Hu Jintao's visit to Italy and he will be absent at the summit meeting between the Group of Eight (G8) industrialized nations and five emerging developing countries in the central Italian city of L'Aquila.

He left Italy for Beijing this morning after concluding the State visit to the country.

His leave is days ahead of schedule because of the riots in Xinjiang, according to the Foreign Ministry.

A total of 156 people died and a further 1,000-odd were injured in the riot Sunday evening in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

The riot is described as the "deadliest riot since New China was founded in 1949."

Rioters burned 261 motor vehicles, including 190 buses, at least 10 taxis and two police cars, according to Liu Yaohua, the region's police chief.

President Hu arrived in Rome on Sunday to start his State visit to Italy. According to the original plan, he will attend the meeting between the leaders of the G8 major industrial nations and five main developing economies from July 8-10 in the central Italian city of L'Aquila. And then, President Hu will also visit Portugal from July 10-12.

State Councillor Dai Bingguo will represent Hu to attend the session, according to the Foreign Ministry.

And the Chinese and Portugal governments will discuss the date of Hu's State visit at some other time.

The G8 nations are Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, Canada and the United States, while the G5 includes China, India, Brazil, Mexico and South Africa.


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## aimarraul

it will be some dirty countris' wish if we are doing the stupid things.make Xinjiang better,make china stronger ,nothing is impossible if our 56 ethnics are hanging together


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## oct605032048

aimarraul said:


> it will be some dirty countris' wish if we are doing the stupid things.make Xinjiang better,make china stronger ,nothing is impossible if our 56 ethnics are hanging together



but a lot of things must to be done to confort the souls of the dead and the hearts of the survivors and to protect all ethnic groups in the region from the threat of terrorists.

Some improvements in ethnic pollacy are needed, the uighur groups need help to be more competitive in economic fields and merged in the main stream of the society.



_________________________
July 10th update:
Urumqi begins DNA test for riot victims
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-07/10/content_8409807.htm


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## duhastmish

aimarraul said:


> it will be some dirty countris' wish if we are doing the stupid things.make Xinjiang better,make china stronger ,nothing is impossible if our 56 ethnics are hanging together



aimarraul - its not the big problem - a coutnry with 56 ethnics living in peace . a little tussel is bound to happen every now and then. i dont think these situation are very much common in china. except a few - but with a big population of china - i think Chinese government is handling them very well by limiting these situations.

the thing is : china is infact facing way less ethnic violance than any body. and thats the reason for strong china.


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## BSF

oct605032048 ...I like you ..you seem to be sensible and truthful

Now to answer your questions


> 1 i don't like some progress of cctv and what's more i sometimes take the news reported by cctv as a new news for it represent the thoughts of the authorty. but it is not the point of my post . Yes we need a more free press but Save your words on cctv though we may share the same attitude towards these magnus press and i'm not the one who throw stones.



So you agree with me that CCTV is a tool of Chinese propaganda.
Well just like I would call DD 1 2 3 4 ....00 a propaganda tool of GOI. (Many of my fellow indian member may disagree) you will never see any one of them posting links from DD 1.

Any way good for you.!



> 2 the less-free environment of press in china dosen't automatically garantee that all the west reports are correct .



Agreed
They try to make the best what they have.
You can't blame them.
Why is it that only communist countries blame them.?

For example Mumbai 26/11.This was telecast ed live in CNN BBC GEO ARY and god know how many channels.... the Govt. of India did not block them,and neither did they blame them for 26/11 ... did they?

Did the pakistani govt blame CNN/BBC/GEO/ARY for Mariot bombings or its coverage?

All I am trying to say is PRC should let foreign media person come to china and allow them to go about the place of riot and give the world the reports of what is happening down there.

As long as they (PRC) does not allow this all the world media will keep speculating and Chinese image will go down in front of the world.

Don't blame me for posting links from BBC or CNN.Blame PRC.
I do the best i can with the best i have.


> Especially when it comes to the report in china. because we get imformation not only from the TV but also from other souses. the net, though it is been censored it provide an pretty fast an free way of knowledge; the eyes of mine and my friends&#65292; school mates&#65292;collegues&#65292; relatives and so on&#12290; of course we know what happens here better than the one set by the coffee machine in building of BBC 10 thousand miles away. Please do not hold these ideas that all the people in china are stupid enough too be cheated neither by the party or by other institutes such as XCC and CXX.




Sorry dear i think BBC and CNN are a better source of information than source of information than you and your friends

No offence meant

If you find my post offensive blame your Chinese to English dictionary.
I am trying to be nice


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## quriosity

oct605032048 said:


> and i would say your understanding and support is of great value and importance to people in deep grief and sorrow.



and here we go..... 

*Russia says China Xinjiang riots internal affair*

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia on Wednesday put its support firmly behind China, saying violent clashes in China's northwestern region of Xinjiang were a purely internal affair.

Chinese President Hu Jintao has abandoned plans to attend a G8 summit in Italy, returning home early to deal with ethnic violence that has killed at least 156 in Xinjiang.

"Using separatist slogans and provoking ethnic intolerance, the initiators of the disorder attacked citizens and beat them, turned over cars and torched them and looted shops and other buildings," Russia's Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

"We would like to confirm that Russia views the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region as an inalienable part of the People's Republic of China and considers that events there are purely the internal affair of China," the foreign ministry said.

"We hope that the actions, which taken within the bounds of the law, by the Chinese authorities to support order in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region will allow the situation to be swiftly normalised," the ministry said.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov expressed his condolences to the relatives of those killed during a phone conversation on Tuesday with his Chinese counterpart Jang Jiechi, the ministry stated in a separate release. 

Russia says China Xinjiang riots internal affair | International | Reuters


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## s90

Most noticeable thing in behaviour of chinese gov. was tht this time they fully allowed international news teams to report,CNN was reporting from Ürümqi!,they Uyghurs were attacking Han Chinese folks when riots started and next day Han Chinese were out on streets with bats and sticks to revenge!


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## Patriot

It's really funny how Indians are all of a sudden worried about Chinese Muslims while in Kashmir Muslims are killed and raped by IA.I request my Pakistani brothers to not become emotional.The Indians here are trying to make animosty between China and Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## glomex

Patriot said:


> It's really funny how Indians are all of a sudden worried about Chinese Muslims while in Kashmir Muslims are killed and raped by IA.I request my Pakistani brothers to not become emotional.The Indians here are trying to make animosty between China and Pakistan.



Just like Pakistanis are worried about Indians living in Assam ...and are not bothered about Baloch people who are being exploited since independence...


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## quriosity

s90 said:


> Most noticeable thing in behaviour of chinese gov. was tht this time they fully allowed international news teams to report,CNN was reporting from Ürümqi!,they Uyghurs were attacking Han Chinese folks when riots started and next day Han Chinese were out on streets with bats and sticks to revenge!



yes... we see china is changin...  in Tibet the force china used against buddhists is not in xinjing against Uighur muslims... but Hui muslims are biggest of all muslims... 

Islam in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

chinese leaders saying to the Han people "dont hurt your Uighur sisters and brothers"... "we are a nation united".... "the family members of the culprits are not guilty".... "please calm down, our enemies want us to fight each other".... 

Han people not allowed to birth more than one child... but Hui, Uighur, Kajakhs, Kyrghis, Tajiks, Tartars, Ozbeks... these Muslims allowed to have many children... they get govt aids, quarters... Han people dont get... Muslims get quota facilities in education, Han people dont get... 

Xinjiang a desert area, no grass is even there... it has only some oil reserve... so US is greedy to get the oil by using Rebia Kadeer, if China abandons it taking away all infrastructres, assets back... those Uighurs will go back to ancient peroid.... US come there to form govt, Rebia the president... US will abandon it after taking all oil... only NATO remains.... Uighurians are stupids... they dont understand whats US intersts there... 

look... Rebia kadeer not even in Istanbul, but in Washington.... why? where is Turkish nationalism?... Turky dont allow that Lady Osama...  But America allows... lol...


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## oct605032048

Oh i can't blame them for their lies and maybe they deserve some nobel prize for the fairy technology about re-writing the facts.

Besides, the western media's eagerness in reporting the tradgedy in membuy has its reasons
1st it is a tradgedy
2nd their traditional anti-islam attitudes
3rd many of the victims are anglo-saxon speaking travelers/ US & UK people.So they were worrying about their own citizens.

well well well I respect your faith in BBC it's OK but what i have to say is that their anti-comu attitude blind their eyes(maybe their heart) to what happened.


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## oct605032048

quriosity said:


> yes... we see china is changin...  in Tibet the force china used against buddhists is not in xinjing against Uighur muslims... but Hui muslims are biggest of all muslims...
> 
> Islam in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Han people not allowed to birth more than one child... but Hui, Uighur, Kajakhs, Kyrghis, Tajiks, Tartars, Ozbeks... these Muslims allowed to have many children... they get govt aids, quarters... Han people dont get... Muslims get quota facilities in education, Han people dont get...
> 
> Xinjiang a desert area, no grass is even there... it has only some oil reserve... so US is greedy to get the oil by using Rebia Kadeer, if China abandons it taking away all infrastructres, assets back... those Uighurs will go back to ancient peroid.... US come there to form govt, Rebia the president... US will abandon it after taking all oil... only NATO remains.... Uighurians are stupids... they dont understand whats US intersts there...
> 
> look... Rebia kadeer not even in Istanbul, but in Washington.... why? where is Turkish nationalism?... Turky dont allow that Lady Osama...  But America allows... lol...



Thanks for your post here, we know she is not in islambad and the whole stuff has nothing to do with pakistan. i also believe that everything gonna be all right and every ethnic groups are equally treated.


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## BSF

> 1st it is a tradgedy



The world is not sunshine and butter files sweetheart,tragic incident happen all over the world.The same media (BBC/CNN) reported Katrina killings, Godhra riots,Marriot bombings.You cannot blame CNN/BBC for reporting the incidents



> 2nd their traditional anti-islam attitudes



So you want the world media not to report tragic stories from China?


> 3rd many of the victims are anglo-saxon speaking travelers.


Do you even know what anglo saxon means...because i could not understand the use of that word in your sentence


> Anglo-Saxons is the term usually people used to describe the Germanic-speaking tribes in the south and east of Great Britain from their arrival in the 5th to 6th centuries and throughout the Early Middle Ages


Here


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## gpit

A1Kaid said:


> First of all American, don't you dare lecture me on history. If anyone needs a good lecture on history it's your people.



Show your prejudice!

Truth is ethnic independent. If you think otherwise, only appropriate description is &#8220; myopic&#8221; and &#8220;racist&#8221;.

Let&#8217;s go for rational discussion, if you are sincere. 

BTW, I assure you many Americans are ignorant, because they don't have to care. Hopefully we don't fall into that category.



> Yeah just like the British ratifying the the Balfour Declaration in 1917, which gave away Palestine to the Zionist. Now what right does Britain have to give the Jews/Zionist someone else s homeland? None whatsoever. It doesn't make it morally right nor is it justified in fact it is criminal.
> 
> Now let me teach you something here American, the province you and the Chinese refer to as "Xinjiang" (in Chinese
> *&#26032;&#30028;*) means in English "*New Territory*"*. It is New territory or new frontier! Face it it was Chinese imperialism in historic Turkic lands that resulted in the occupation of East Turkistan. A source is available below.
> 
> Xinjiang: China's Muslim borderland - Google Books



You are free to hold your opinions.

The fact (not opinion) is, *the Han Chinese had control over Xinjiang, where multiple ethnics thrived there except Turkic people, as early as West Han Dynasty around 60 BC*, with its headquarters at Wulei (now in North Tarim Basin). Later, an extension of Great Wall, a typical symbol of ancient Chinese sphere of control, *was built 300 miles into present Gansu-Xinjiang border*.

*The Uighurs seemed to appear (only) around 3 DC as Han Dynasty declines. *

The resurrection of Tang Dynasty witnessed re-control of Xinjiang, with two military commanderies in Anxi (640) and Beiting (702) in the north and south of the Tian Shan. The decrease of Tang dynasty helped Arabic influence in these areas. Nonetheless, *Mongolian still remained as the language at that time*.

Yuan had also incorporated the region into China, but Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) asserted its firm control over it.

BTW, Xinjiang is not &#26032;&#30028;, which means &#8220;new border&#8221;, but &#26032;&#30086;.

*The new territory was new in ancient times*, but is not new anymore now. There are thousands of weird names originated 5-6 thousand years ago in China, they don&#8217;t have any nowadays&#8217; meaning but only serve as token.

If you use a location name with an origination that even you don&#8217;t know, how can you use that to justify your political slogan? Wouldn&#8217;t you feel this is na&#239;ve and funny? 



> And none of what you have said discounts my previous points.
> 
> "Uyghurs are not Chinese or share Chinese heritage, they are a Turkic people who belong to the Turan not to the Chinese motherland. Their language is not Chinese they do not speak Mandarin or Cantonese they speak Turkic. Their culture is also different from yours. Let me reiterate, they are not your people and East Turkistan is not nor has ever been your land!"-A1Kaid



Remind you that, China is a multi-ethnic country with Han the majority.

*There are Russians and Kazaks, etc. They look different and speak differently from Han, and share no heritage of the Chinese. Should each and every of those ethnics declare independence form China?* 

National self-determination is a controversial issue. While people are entitled with the rights to shake off the shackles of colonists and imperialism, it is also believed that &#8216;Yet if every ethnic, religious or linguistic group claimed statehood, there would be no limit to fragmentation, and peace, security and well-being for all would become ever more difficult to achieve.&#8217; (UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali stated in his otherwise upbeat 1992 report <An Agenda for Peace>).



> You cannot disapprove not one point I made, because I stand on the facts.
> 
> It's funny how you Americans call for the freedom of Taiwan and Tibet and support Dalai Lama's freedom movement, you even allowed him in the White House (Bush tenure) with a decked out event. Yet, when it comes to East Turkistan you become hypocrites.
> 
> Quite frankly, I'm not interested in US opinion nor do I care for US foreign desires.



Peevishness doesn&#8217;t make a claim any more appealing.

You don&#8217;t have to heed US government, and I certainly don't. I only represent myself, as an individual, not US government.

I oppose Taiwan independence. I oppose Tibet independence. Because for those particular cases, &#8220;there would be no limit to fragmentation, and peace, security and well-being for all would become ever more difficult to achieve&#8221;.



> I already pointed that out, the Uyghur Turks have been living in East Turkistan for thousands of years, they cultivated the land, the raised the cities, gardens, they named the towns, and their ancestry is in Central Asia, the Turkic homeland. What you fail to understand is, 1933 is a significant date in the modern time line of this "Grand Chessboard" you talk about, but your an American what do I expect. Always wanting to mingle and have your say in Asian/Eastern affairs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See here, "It doesn't matter", this is a very typical attitude you types have, what doesn't matter is your opinion. Actually the history does matter. I understand some feel China will never let go of "Xinjiang" or it's occupied "New Territory" but their are things that can be done that will not be discussed.



As history and facts demonstrates, *Uyghurs are not the first people living in that land*. Other ethnics and Han Chinese controlled the land 60 BC and earlier, whereas Turkic speakers started to have influence only when Tang declined. 

*By your logic, Turkic speakers should also evacuate the land and yield to Han or to those pre Han ethnics.* How ridiculous!

Human rights issue has to be addressed in China in general, and in Xinjiang, Tibet and anywhere else in particular. Secession is not a solution. Instead, a worsened human rights record can be foreseen.

1933 event is nothing but a Soviet Union plot plus other factors. Many leaders of the short-lived event are educated in Soviets. Just spend some time reading through Russian, Chinese, British, American documents. Only people under-educated in this aspect would laughably use it as their banner.

Everything in the universe moves according to certain laws. In international relationship, great powers out-maneuver others on the chessboard. We can call it unjust, we can call it barbarous, but that&#8217;s the way current people behave. If smaller countries are wise, they can unite to form a stronger power. That again is following the laws.

Stuff works according to laws, it doesn&#8217;t matter how petulantly somebody tries in defiance of the laws that govern the movement of the Universe. Wise man is wise because he studies the laws, discovers new laws, understands the laws and uses laws better than any other people, not in defiance 

Just let you know that, in the particular riots, the Uyghurs kill not just Han. *They also kill muslim Hui*.

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## Patriot

We can criticize CCP but A1Kaid are you suggestng Xinjiang does not belong to China?China got Xinjiang several decades ago.If any Pakistani brother support Free East Turkistan Movement (which is a terrorist movement )then it means he also support Free Balochistan and Free Pakhtunistan Movement and Taliban/AQ Terrorism.

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## quriosity

oct605032048 said:


> Thanks for your post here, we know she is not in islambad and the whole stuff has nothing to do with pakistan. i also believe that everything gonna be all right and every ethnic groups are equally treated.



dont be upset my friend... such things happens... Rebia will pay the price for the bloodshed of human beings... she incited hatred among simple minded Uighurs... 

Here i am giving you a sloka from our Gita... Lord Krishna told Arjuna just before the Kurukshetra war... 
*
"Yada Yada Hi Dharmasya Glanir Bhavati Bharatha
Abhyuthanam Adharmasya Tadathmanam Srijamyaham.

Parithranaya Sadhunam Vinashayacha Dushkritham
Dharma Samsthapanarthaya Sambhavami Yuge Yuge." *

English translation: 

Whenever there is decay of righteousness O! Bharatha. And a rise of unrighteousness; I who am always present and watching will take charge and set things in balance for you. To protect the good and to destroy evil and establish righteousness, I manifest.


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## BSF

> It's really funny how Indians are all of a sudden worried about Chinese Muslims while in Kashmir Muslims are killed and raped by IA.I request my Pakistani brothers to not become emotional.The Indians here are trying to make animosty between China and Pakistan.



Hmm... So Palastine is Israel's internal issue 
Godhra is India's internal issue
Balochistan in Pakistan's internal issue

And unlike some members claim here .... that Pakistan will speak up for Muslims everywhere in the world.......That is not true.

Okay, good to know that.


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## Patriot

gpit said:


> What a freaking BS!
> 
> East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) was declared a terrorist organisation by United Nations in 2002.
> 
> Terrorism Zindabad!


He does not represent the whole Pakistani Nation and we certainly don't support Terrorism.


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## oct605032048

Patriot said:


> He does not represent the whole Pakistani Nation and we certainly don't support Terrorism.


understand & agreed


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## pmukherjee

In the ultimate analysis, the riots in Xinjiang and the fallout thereof are things for the Chinese to sort out. It is apparent that they are very serious and much perturbed about the turn of events. President Hu Jintao has cut short the G-8 summit and has gone back to take stock of things. I think we should leave the Chinese to tackle the issue. The least we can do is condole the loss of life in Xinjiang and hope normalcy is restored at the earliest.
It is pointless gloating at a neighbour's misery and sling mud on each other.


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## gpit

cloyce said:


> Sorry, but you did not understood what I said.
> Uighurs are the local people, han-chinese are immigrants. ...



*This is a completely and totally wrong perception.*

Both Uighurs and Hans are migrants to Xinjiang. 

Han Chinese had control over Xinjiang as early as West Han Dynasty around *60 BC*, with its headquarters at Wulei (now in North Tarim Basin). Multiple ethnics thrived there around that time *except Uighurs*. Later, an extension of Great Wall, a typical symbol of ancient Chinese sphere of control, was built 300 miles into present Gansu-Xinjiang border.

The Uighurs seemed to appear (only) around 3 DC as Han Dynasty declines. 

The resurrection of China through Tang Dynasty witnessed re-control of Xinjiang, with two military commanderies in Anxi (640) and Beiting (702) in the north and south of the Tian Shan. The decrease of Tang dynasty helped Arabic influence in these areas. Nonetheless, *Mongolian still remained as the language at that time*.

Yuan had also incorporated the region into China, but *Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) asserted its firm control over it*. Note that Qing is of Man ethnic.


Therefore, Uighur *IS NOT* local people in that sense.


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## BSF

I hope the mods will forgive me for this one

I know the forum rules say no one liners but i gotta ask this to Gpit.



> Therefore, Uighur IS NOT local people in that sense.


How long does it take a ughir Muslim immigrant to become a local according to you ?

Its an honest question.


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## shravan

gpit said:


> Therefore, Uighur *IS NOT* local people in that sense.



Are you local to America ?


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## Hasnain2009

Rajkumar said:


> what happen to your human right arguments. same thing happens in kashmir, you call it human right violation and same done by china, its their internal matter. Hypocrisy at its best.



Bcoz Kashmir is part of Pakistan and East Turkistan Movement is terrorist movement, i think!


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## gpit

BSF said:


> ...
> How long does it take a ughir Muslim immigrant to become a local according to you ?
> 
> ...



It is believed to be aroung 840 AD.

This thread is interesting. BTW, to me this forum is pretty good one as it is mostly serious and academic. 



> Ethnic origins of Uygurs/Uyghurs/Uigurs, etc. - China History Forum, Chinese History Forum
> 
> In the Age of Fragmentation, the Uyghur were not known as a separate group, merely as one of the 15 tribes of the Tiele. After the rise of the Tujue (Turkut), the Tiele became their subjects. In 742 (during the Tianbao reign of the Tang dynasty), the Uyghur (then known as the Huihe &#22238;&#32421 rose up, vanquished the Turkut and conquered their lands. In 788, they changed their name to Huigu or Huihu &#22238;&#40536;.



BTW, the Age of Fragmentation (AD 220589), is the period after East Han Dynasty and before Sui Dynasty when China was in a disintegrated status.


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## BSF

> Bcoz Kashmir is part of Pakistan and East Turkistan Movement is terrorist movement, i think!




Man this has to be the best answer in this forum.

I thought it was called Azad Kashmir rather than Pakistan.

Anyway tell me how is the Ughir movement in Xingjang province any different from Kashmir movement in IOK . ?


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## Patriot

IOK is disputed as per United Nations while Xingjang is integral part of China and the whole world recognize that?

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## BSF

> It is believed to be aroung 840 AD.


So the Ughis have been in Xingjang province for 1160 year..agreed!

And they are still not local to the Xingjang province ?


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## BSF

> IOK is disputed as per United Nations while Xingjang is integral part of China and the whole world recognize that?



Sorry for being naive but i fail to see the difference.

So if tomorrow the UN passed a resolution saying XingJang province is disputed will you then support the Ughirs ?
But untill then you will not support them!

Is that what you are saying ?


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## gpit

shravan said:


> Are you local to America ?



Youve run out of wits much sooner than anticipated.


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## gpit

BSF said:


> So the Ughis have been in Xingjang province for 1160 year..agreed!
> 
> And they are still not local to the Xingjang province ?



*In that sense*, there are many other ethnics local to Xinjiang, including Hui and Han.


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## shravan

gpit said:


> Youve run out of wits much sooner than anticipated.



Common. 

According to your above Migration theory -- Are you local to America ?


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## fenderbender

LOL Gpit is such a prick. Uguyrs have been around since what 3rd cent AD? 

That's not local enough for you? 

Haha. Maybe Chinese should leave China because they migrated from Africa.


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## fenderbender

Notice how no Pakistani is attempting to correct Gpit's myopic views about what constitutes "local" and "foreign".

Here's a hint - those people who are living CURRENTLY are locals. 

Human Rights are not dictated by historical migrations and wars. You can't declare yourself locals simply because your ancestors allegedly lived there. 

Nom Nom Nom!!!!


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## fenderbender

Here's some UNEMBROIDERED TRUTH suckaas!!!

_________________________________-
*What The Riots In China Really Mean *(from FORBES.COM)
Gordon G. Chang, 07.08.09, 1:45 PM ET

This week, rioting left scores dead in Urumqi, the capital of China's troubled Xinjiang region. The latest official death toll is 156, but that number undoubtedly understates the count of those killed. The disturbances are accurately portrayed as ethnic conflict--Turkic Uighurs against the dominant Hans--but they also say much about the general stability of the modern Chinese state.
*
That state says the Uighurs are "Chinese," but that's not true in any meaningful sense of the term. The Uighurs are, in fact, from different racial stock than the Han; they speak a different language, and they practice a religion few others in China follow. Of the 55 officially recognized minority groups in China, they stand out the most.
**
The Uighurs are a conquered people. In the 1940s, they had their own state, the East Turkestan Republic, for about half a decade. Mao Zedong, however, forcibly incorporated the short-lived nation into the People's Republic by sending the People's Liberation Army into Xinjiang.*

As much as the Uighurs deserve to govern themselves again--and they most certainly do--almost no one thinks they will be able to resurrect the East Turkestan state. They have even lost their own homeland, as Beijing's policies encouraged the Han to populate Xinjiang. *In the 1940s, Hans constituted about 5&#37; of Xinjiang's population. Today, that number has increased to about 40%. In the capital of Urumqi, more than 70% of the residents are Hans. In short, the Uighurs are no match for the seemingly invincible Han-dominated state.*

Yet the riots of the last few days show just how vulnerable that Chinese state is, even in the face of apparently weak opponents. For one thing, according to one report, the disturbances came completely out of the blue for many. "There were no warning signs about the riots," said Tang Yan, a 21-year-old drug store employee who fled rampaging Uighurs in Urumqi. "No one expected it." What started as a silent, peaceful demonstration--over the failure of authorities to investigate the murders of Uighur factory workers in faraway Guangdong province--somehow turned into savagery in the streets of Urumqi's capital.

The chronology of events on Sunday is unclear, but it appears the gathering became a riot when police began to beat the protesters, even girls. There are, at this moment, so many grievances against the central government and the Communist Party that almost anything can spark an insurrection. And that's especially true when security forces overreact, as they appeared to do on Sunday.

Moreover, the disturbances, once they started, spread out from the capital city of Urumqi to remote Kashgar and possibly to Yarkand, Aksu, Khotan and Karamay as well. Beijing blocked the Internet and social networking sites after the demonstration turned violent. But in a modern society, even a centralized government cannot control every phone line and Web connection.

More important, the protests spread so fast because Uighurs throughout Xinjiang shared the same feelings about the Han authorities. Therefore, it's not surprising Uighurs reacted the same way when hearing of the events in Urumqi. When people realize that they're not alone, social order can break down. Citizens then feel the safety of numbers and so both lose fear and gain hope, especially if they are as desperate as the Uighurs have been for some time.

Consequently, people in oppressive societies can act in unison because, at some moments, enough of them think the same way. For the Uighurs, brutal oppression is the force binding one to the other. For others in China, the process of coming together is more subtle. "Ideas sometimes seep into people's minds almost imperceptibly and, over time, become embedded in a population's collective psyche," writes Jean Nicol, a psychologist and former South China Morning Post columnist.

As a result, people are more united--and stronger--than they appear. "I recall that my friends and I for decades were asked by people visiting from democratic Western countries, 'How can you, a mere handful of powerless individuals, change the regime, when the regime has at hand all the tools of power: the army, the police and the media, when it can convene gigantic rallies to reflect its people's 'support' to the world, when pictures of the leaders are everywhere and any effort to resist seems hopeless and quixotic?'" wrote Vaclav Havel, who knows something about how people under communist governments think. "My answer was that it was impossible to see the inside clearly, to witness the true spirit of the society and its potential--impossible because everything was forged. In such circumstances, no one can perceive the internal, underground movements and processes that are occurring."

The Chinese regime can fail because, as we are seeing in Xinjiang, the Party is losing hearts and minds, and, as Havel suggests, a ruling organization is vulnerable when that happens. In most other parts of China, ethnic tensions are not a factor, but the Communist Party has other problems. Almost nobody believes in its ideology, and everyone can see its failings as a ruling organization. Outside of minority-inhabited areas, few actively oppose it, but few anywhere enthusiastically support it. The Party stays in place largely due to apathy, fear and a failure to imagine that China can be better.

So this is a dangerous time for the one-party state. For three decades, its primary basis of legitimacy has been the continual delivery of prosperity. In the current economic downturn, however, it has been arguing that it deserves to remain in power for other reasons. As the Party tries to change the basis of its support, it puts its future at risk.

There are tens of thousands of protests in China each year, and most of them have nothing to do with clashes between ethnicities. Mishandled like the one in Urumqi, however, almost any one of them can spread fast, from city to city and across vast regions. That's the most important lesson to be learned from the events in Xinjiang this week.

Gordon G. Chang is the author of The Coming Collapse of China. He writes a weekly column for Forbes.


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## dabong1

At least the indians can admit that china does not censor every last thing on tv and has a free press that reports problems around the country.


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## dabong1

fenderbender said:


> You can't declare yourself locals simply because your ancestors allegedly lived there.
> 
> Nom Nom Nom!!!!



Unless your jewish-israeli then you can claim all the above.


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## Hasham24

All Pakistani people strongly condemn the Xinjiang riots.
China should strongly respond to this indian-american conspiracy!


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## Speeder

As I said earlier, Brits haven't made too much a fuss about it in reporting compared to some big events of the last year.

*BBC: * (about 2 min. time) said that it was "riot" and "Chinese ethnic tensions in XinJian"

*ITV: *about the same time and exact wordings

*Channel 4: * 4 min. time with a report from Lindsay Hilsum - one of the most anti-China reporters I have ever seen. I have never heard one single report from her since the Tibet riots, SiChuan earthquake, Olympics 2008 till now, NOTHING, where one single positive word coming out of her mouth regarding China ! The twat also referred to "ethnic tensions", but used "demostrators" instead of "riots" !

*Sky*: about 3 min. The same wordings

So usually Brits would blame on China's crackdown from A to Z. This time the tone has slightly changed a bit, although all of them said "crackdown" in the first day, they all changed the tone afterwards, becoming more or less "neutral" in general wordings, but still keep playing mouse and cat game by always using the scenes / photos of how Uyguhrs got beated up by Han, not single reverse story.


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## scshqgcm

BSF said:


> Hmm... So Palastine is Israel's internal issue
> Godhra is India's internal issue
> Balochistan in Pakistan's internal issue
> 
> And unlike some members claim here .... that Pakistan will speak up for Muslims everywhere in the world.......That is not true.
> 
> Okay, good to know that.



a true Muslim would not kill innocent people .but in Xinjiang they killed women too,even Taliban dont kill women and we all know what Taliban is ,right?
tell me ,my indian friends,in your eyes what is a Muslim should do?

maybe you think that Muslims r so --------to be fooled by you?
and i am sure that Pakistani friends would speak up for all equality of all Muslims,not for terrorists

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## scshqgcm

some of the top leaders in Xinjiang
some of them r Uighur,Kazakh,Hui,Han

the man with a pen under the flags of Pakistan and China is Uighur,the woman who sit on left is a Hui muslim,and the man sit on right is the mayor of Urumchi
and he is a Uighur too

the four men walk together r the top four leaders of Xinjiang,one of them is Han chinese,the others r Uighur or Kazakh chinese-------sure ,they r the target of terrorista,and the terrorists killed some of Muslim leader too,you can check it
Xinjiang is not the land of Uighur racist,more than 20 other groups live on this land for a long time, include Uighur Mongol ,Hui,Han,Kazak, Uzbek, Tajik, Tatar, Kirgiz---------so?


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## Omar1984

This is China's internal matter. We have a similar problem with BLA terrorists who are also separatists and they are also so called "Muslim" by name.

Everyone in the world recognizes Xinjiang as part of China. There is no dispute here.

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## HAIDER

Hope peace prevail, because its strange, why this gateway to middle east is catching fire all of sudden. Urumchi is growing trade center in near future, this dry port will be gateway to middle east , Africa and part of Europe. This is trade market for all Pakistanis and Chinese.
In this all crisis, after China, Pakistan will be the one who hurt most.


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## anathema

scshqgcm said:


> a true Muslim would not kill innocent people .but in Xinjiang they killed women too,even Taliban dont kill women and we all know what Taliban is ,right?



It is purely china's internal matter and china is more than capable of solving it. Stuff just happens. 

However your above sentence caught my eye. 

I really wish there are more true muslims out there and i believe there are...However the problem is moderates never come out in support and the fanatics supress them ..Moderates just talk and nothing else....

Taliban doesnt kill women ....Sir ....Taliban is capable of killing anyone .....monsters they are...stoning , beheading , shooting ....anything....there's a tone of material which shows that....Point is ...Fanatics in the name of any religion is capable of anything .........women children doesnt matter


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## dabong1

Speeder said:


> As I said earlier, Brits haven't made too much a fuss about it in reporting compared to some big events of the last year.
> 
> *BBC: * (about 2 min. time) said that it was "riot" and "Chinese ethnic tensions in XinJian"
> 
> *ITV: *about the same time and exact wordings
> 
> *Channel 4: * 4 min. time with a report from Lindsay Hilsum - one of the most anti-China reporters I have ever seen. I have never heard one single report from her since the Tibet riots, SiChuan earthquake, Olympics 2008 till now, NOTHING, where one single positive word coming out of her mouth regarding China ! The twat also referred to "ethnic tensions", but used "demostrators" instead of "riots" !
> 
> *Sky*: about 3 min. The same wordings
> 
> So usually Brits would blame on China's crackdown from A to Z. This time the tone has slightly changed a bit, although all of them said "crackdown" in the first day, they all changed the tone afterwards, becoming more or less "neutral" in general wordings, but still keep playing mouse and cat game by always using the scenes / photos of how Uyguhrs got beated up by Han, not single reverse story.



Maybe it has more to do with chinese being more media savvy this time and being able to project there version of events better then they have done before........let there be a free media but mould there opinions to state policy.


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## freeman

yep just like mainstream western media.

To the Chinese people out there
Nobody believes state run media over here. Whether thats Chinese, Iranian or whoever. Doesnt help either when the internet and international phone calls are turned off. It makes people suspicious.


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## DistortedIndia

This opinion below is taken from a conversation that I overheard in a major hotel VIP lounge room between some Canadians and Japanese ( judging on their luggage and accents ). -- Why Indians in general are so happy to see any turmoil that occurs in Pakistan and PRC ( People's Republic of China). 
 Especially, if the Turmoil is between any Muslim group and China, the Indians could not help themselves by Grinning Ear to Ear on the misfortunes of Pakistan and PRC. Example: The Kadeer Rebiya and her Uighur terrorists in exterminating the Han and Hui in Xinjiang, PRC.

The Indians have been accustomed to being breed as the whitey slaves and tools. The whitey here are USA and the Indian's master Brits. 

The Indians are naturally the jealous and shallow minded breed. 

 The Indians can not stand for being inferior to China for so many years ( at minimum the last 30+ years ) with no light at the end of the inferior tunnel. 

While China Peaceful Rising is grown out of the simple concept of being the "Best that One Can Be". 

The Indians Goal on the other hand is much shallower. The Indians just want to be the Numero Uno in Asia. 
To this day, 47 years later, the shallow minded Indians are still licking their wounds with salts on their crushing defeat on the 1962 Border War. 

The Indians have long conceded that the whitey ( mainly Americans and Brits ) are forever their superiors. 

The Indians are too happy to believe and swallow whatever neo-conservatives whitey propaganda from the so-called free media of the whitey ( BBC, CNN, AFP, etc, ... ... )


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## Gabbar

*^^ Why dont you show your true identity? This is your second post and you are already in to racism and low quality posts. Make some arguments with some logical concept. You wont last long with flambating and derailing the threads. Get a life.*


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## quriosity

Speeder said:


> As I said earlier, Brits haven't made too much a fuss about it in reporting compared to some big events of the last year.
> 
> *BBC: * (about 2 min. time) said that it was "riot" and "Chinese ethnic tensions in XinJian"
> 
> *ITV: *about the same time and exact wordings
> 
> *Channel 4: * 4 min. time with a report from Lindsay Hilsum - one of the most anti-China reporters I have ever seen. I have never heard one single report from her since the Tibet riots, SiChuan earthquake, Olympics 2008 till now, NOTHING, where one single positive word coming out of her mouth regarding China ! The twat also referred to "ethnic tensions", but used "demostrators" instead of "riots" !
> 
> *Sky*: about 3 min. The same wordings
> 
> So usually Brits would blame on China's crackdown from A to Z. This time the tone has slightly changed a bit, although all of them said "crackdown" in the first day, they all changed the tone afterwards, becoming more or less "neutral" in general wordings, but still keep playing mouse and cat game by always using the scenes / photos of how Uyguhrs got beated up by Han, not single reverse story.




it wasnt riot.... culprits did to spread terror... its terrorist attack or war on china.... china authority already found links with al-Qaida... terrorism is not always that you carry AK-47... you can do with a baseball stick... so Chinese state media is lying perhaps for a good reason... further investigation reveals...


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## gpit

fenderbender said:


> LOL Gpit is such a prick. Uguyrs have been around since what 3rd cent AD?
> 
> That's not local enough for you?
> 
> Haha. Maybe Chinese should leave China because they migrated from Africa.





fenderbender said:


> Notice how no Pakistani is attempting to correct Gpit's myopic views about what constitutes "local" and "foreign".
> 
> Here's a hint - those people who are living CURRENTLY are locals.
> 
> Human Rights are not dictated by historical migrations and wars. You can't declare yourself locals simply because your ancestors allegedly lived there.
> 
> Nom Nom Nom!!!!




Normally those types of witless craps deserve no reply from me. I nonetheless hope to utilize this opportunity to summarize what I meant earlier:

*If Han is not considered as local in Xinjiang, then Uighur is not, either.

If Uighur is considered as local in Xinjiang, then Han is local, too, and perhaps even more local.*

Low IQ people may still ask why? 

This is because Han entered Xinjiang several centuries earlier than Uighur was formed and keeps staying there, albeit with smaller population compared with Uighur.

Remind you all that *Xinjiang has been called home not only by Uighur or Han, but also by all 47 of 56 Chinese ethnics*. They are all local to Xinjiang.

Ethnic Percent in Xinjiang (2004)
Uighur 45. 73&#37;
Han 39. 75%
Kazakh 7.04%
Hui 4.46%
.
.
.

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## AkhandBharat

BEIJING (AFP)--China on Thursday rejected a call by Turkey to discuss deadly unrest in the Xinjiang region at the United Nations Security Council, saying the incident was an internal affair.

"The Chinese government has taken decisive measures according to law," foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang said.

"This is completely China's internal affair, there is no reason to seek a Security Council discussion."

His comments came after Turkey called on China to secure a quick end to what it called an "atrocity" in the northwest Xinjiang region, where riots that erupted Sunday in the region's capital Urumqi led to days of violence.

The unrest has seen 156 dead, more than 1,000 injured and 1,434 arrested so far, Chinese authorities have said.

In televised remarks Wednesday, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the events amounted to an "atrocity."

"We expect... the immediate implementation of the necessary measures in line with universal human rights," he said.

He added that Turkey, a non-permanent member of the U.N. Security Council, would ask the U.N. body to discuss ways of ending the violence.

Xinjiang's eight million Uighurs make up nearly half the population of the region, a vast area of deserts and mountains rich in natural resources that borders ex-Soviet Central Asia.

Many Uighurs have sought refuge in Turkey, where some Islamist and nationalist groups lend support to demands for an independent Uighur homeland in the region.

But Turkey's official policy has been to support China's territorial integrity and oppose any separatist movements.

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=200907090557dowjonesdjonline000420&title=china-rejects-turkeys-call-for-un-talks-on-xinjiang


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## gubbi

Muslim states 'silent' on Uighurs





Kadeer said that silence from Muslim countries contrasted with support from the West [AFP]



> A leading Uighur rights activist has criticised Muslim-majority countries for not speaking out against decades of alleged repression and persecution from the Chinese government.
> 
> Speaking in Washington on Monday, Rebiya Kadeer, a businesswoman who was jailed for years in China before being released into exile in the US, hit out at what she said was decades of "brutal suppression" of Muslims in China's western Xinjiang region.
> 
> Speaking after a day of unrest in Xinjiang left at least 150 people dead, Kadeer pointed to the lack of response from Muslim countries to the violence and the situation faced by the Uighurs.
> 
> "Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria and a number of other Muslim countries as well as the central Asian states like Kazakhstan Kurdistan and Uzbekistan - they all deported Uighurs who had fled Chinese persecution for peacefully opposing Chinese rule, for writing something, for speaking something," she said.
> 
> She said the lack of action from Muslim countries contrasted with support given by other governments.
> 
> "Our only friend is in the West - Western democracies are supporting us and we are very grateful," Kadeeer, who heads the World Uighur Congress, told reporters.
> 
> "We certainly hope that more Muslim countries will raise our situation."
> 
> 'Propaganda'
> 
> "So far the Islamic world is silent about the Uighurs' suffering because the Chinese authorities have been very successful in its propaganda to the Muslim world"
> Rebiya Kadeer
> 
> Kadeer attributed the lack of action from Muslim countries to what she said was the success of Chinese "propaganda" to the Muslim world.
> 
> "So far the Islamic world is silent about the Uighurs' suffering because the Chinese authorities have been very successful in its propaganda to the Muslim world."
> 
> That propaganda, she said, sent a message to the Muslim world "that the Uighurs are extremely pro-west Muslims - that they are modern Muslims, not genuine Muslims."
> 
> At the same time, she said, to Western countries the Chinese government "labelled Uighur leaders as Muslims terrorists with links to al-Qaeda - so the propaganda has been pretty effective on both sides."
> 
> Thelim Kine, an Asia researcher from New York-based Human Rights Watch, told Al Jazeera that Beijing's accusations of Uighur links to "terrorist" groups had intensified since the 9/11 attacks in the US.
> 
> "Because they are Muslim they have been accused of carrying out what the government calls 'terrorist activities', as well as being linked to various organisations like al-Qaeda," he said.
> 
> 'Mastermind'
> 
> China's government has blamed Uighur exiles for stoking the recent unrest, singling out Kadeer for "masterminding" the riots &#8211; claims she rejected as "completely false".
> 
> While she admitted that some Uighurs had been carried out attacks during Sunday's unrest, she said the violence was a symptom of Uighur frustration and resentment at China's repressive policies.
> 
> Her group, she said, has repeatedly called for only peaceful protests and urged all sides to exercise restraint.
> 
> As protests continue in Xinjiang and police arrest hundreds after the riots, Kadeer called for an international investigation into the unrest.
> 
> "We hope that the United Nations, the United States and the European Union will send teams to investigate what really took place in Xinjiang," she said.
> 
> "We hope the White House will issue a stronger statement urging the Chinese government to show restraint, and also to tell the truth of the nature of the events and what happened, and to tell the Chinese government to redress Uighur grievances."



Apparently, according to many a members' posts here, its a sacrilege/criminal act if a few Indian Muslims are kind of discriminated against (it is of course bad), but its alright if chinese muslims are killed by their comrades. How do I not see any outrage by members here? We recently had a whole thread where one poster argued that two students who got beat up in an Indian college were definitely Muslim and condemned the Indians as bigots, but no one condemns China for their heavy handed response in this case.

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## Gabbar

> How do I not see any outrage by members here? We recently had a whole thread where one poster argued that two students who got beat up in an Indian college were definitely Muslim and condemned the Indians as bigots, but no one condemns China for their heavy handed response in this case.



Good question gubbi. Only Pakistani/Muslims posters can answer this. If Xinjiang was Uttar Pradesh, I got feeling that response might of been more harsh and different from some members.

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## Gin ka Pakistan

Another Muslim group funded and used by West for their own interests.


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## xebex

i really wanted to see somebody answering Gubbi's question, anybody???


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## shravan

Attack on Muslims in China decried - Ludhiana - Cities - The Times of India

The Imam appealed to the Muslim community in India to boycott Chinese-made goods.

------


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## blain2

Its may be as bad as the treatment of Muslims in India (on many occasions) or not but people are not going to bad mouth China not knowing exactly what is transpiring there. There are diplomatic sensitivities as well as certain feelings of friendship between the Pakistani nation and the Chinese which make it difficult for us to pass judgment on the Chinese. With India, we know the exact deal because so many of those who live in Pakistan have lived or seen the lives of Muslims in India and there is quite a bit of documented evidence as well as news coverage of this from India.

You can call it what you want, however given that so little is coming out of China makes it that much harder to judge them (I know whatever little some of you Indians find you will push it just to try to draw a wedge here and elsewhere).

On another note, I do know that quite a few governments (Muslim ones) are nudging China to look into the issue from a holistic standpoint as this problem can also become one which could lead to greater militancy in the overall region (similar to the Chechen issue). Obviously Pakistan and these other countries will not cut diplomatic ties over this issue (for that matter we have never cut ties with India despite all of the problems).

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## blain2

shravan said:


> Attack on Muslims in China decried - Ludhiana - Cities - The Times of India
> 
> The Imam appealed to the Muslim community in India to boycott Chinese-made goods.
> 
> ------



Mubarak! I wonder if that Imam suggested the same to his community over the carnage of Muslims in Chechnya. My advice to the Indians is to not try to pull cheap shots here by highlighting points to instigate. When was the last time you posted an article about an Indian Imam decrying the atrocities of the Indian forces in IoK? Who has the guts to do so in India? I am sure the day the Imam says something of this nature, your RSS crackpots will burn him and his family alive.

Simply amazing tactics of instigation...

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## wtf

Gabbar said:


> Good question gubbi. Only Pakistani/Muslims posters can answer this. If Xinjiang was Uttar Pradesh, I got feeling that response might of been more harsh and different from some members.



It is rare for other Muslim countries to comment on issues in India too. Often it is treated as an interference in internal matters if you comment on other countries affairs. If Indian govt. is asked to comment on the issue, I can bet that they'll say "no comments" too. 

Pakistan's comments on Kashmir is an exception, not the rule.


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## blain2

wtf said:


> It is rare for other Muslim countries to comment on issues in India too. Often it is treated as an interference in internal matters if you comment on other countries affairs. If Indian govt. is asked to comment on the issue, I can bet that they'll say "no comments" too.
> 
> Pakistan's comments on Kashmir is an exception, not the rule.



That too because Kashmir is a disputed region.

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## Gabbar

wtf said:


> It is rare for other Muslim countries to comment on issues in India too. Often it is treated as an interference in internal matters if you comment on other countries affairs. If Indian govt. is asked to comment on the issue, I can bet that they'll say "no comments" too.
> 
> Pakistan's comments on Kashmir is an exception, not the rule.



We are not looking for GOP's comments on this issue. It's China's internal matter and they will take care of it. But if this was happened in India, do you think some posters would of licking thier chops to take shots at India. Why so fair and wait for the news theory on other country but not India? Lets wait for neutral sources when it happens in friendly country but if it happenes in India, some people would just make up their mind before they even finish reading the news. Interesting for sure, dont you think so?


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## blain2

Gabbar said:


> We are not looking for GOP's comments on this issue. It's China's internal matter and they will take care of it. But if this was happened in India, do you think some posters would of licking thier chops to take shots at India. Why so fair and wait for the news theory on other country but not India? Lets wait for neutral sources when it happens in friendly country but if it happenes in India, some people would just make up their mind before they even finish reading the news. Interesting for sure, dont you think so?



Posters would be on India's case because of what they know vs. what we do not know of China. Unlike China, people in Pakistan have relatives. We have proximity to the country, we know the politics at the expense of Muslims that are played out in India thus the harsh criticism by Pakistanis (however I must point out that the Indian sides leaves no opportunity to hurt Pakistan and her image either). As much as you folks try to put on a "don't care" attitude with regards to Pakistan, one only has to go to your media sources, or your forums to read what people think about Muslims in India as well as Pakistan. 

I know this is going off on a different tangent, however pay heed to my earlier point. Do not post these articles posing as if you care about the poor Uighurs. Their misery is being used to score political points for the Indian treatment of its Muslim minority.


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## Gabbar

> Posters would be on India's case because of what they know vs. what we do not know of China.



And this is suppose to be good thing that you dont know?



> Do not post these articles posing as if you care about the poor Uighurs. Their misery is being used to score political points for the Indian treatment of its Muslim minority.



I dont think I have stated anywhere I am criticizing chinese and taking side of the Uighurs, please read my post again. I believe you have misunderstood my or gubbi's question. You guys are always suspicious and look conspiricy theories in everything. These quesions are very simple.


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## Gabbar

blain2 said:


> Mubarak! I wonder if that Imam suggested the same to his community over the carnage of Muslims in Chechnya. *My advice to the Indians is to not try to pull cheap shots here by highlighting points to instigate.* When was the last time you posted an article about an Indian Imam decrying the atrocities of the Indian forces in IoK? Who has the guts to do so in India? *I am sure the day the Imam says something of this nature, your RSS crackpots will burn him and his family alive.*
> Simply amazing tactics of instigation...



You are a "supermod" and even you cant stick to topic. What imam in Ludhiana did or what not, relevent to this issue. Firstly this news about indian imam does not belong in this thread. And you blain have to bring Kashmir, RSS and conspiricy theories in to this. The quesion is very simple people.

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## gpit

gubbi said:


> ...
> 
> Apparently, according to many a members' posts here, its a sacrilege/criminal act if a few Indian Muslims are kind of discriminated against (it is of course bad), but its alright if chinese muslims are killed by their comrades. How do I not see any outrage by members here? We recently had a whole thread where one poster argued that two students who got beat up in an Indian college were definitely Muslim and condemned the Indians as bigots, but no one condemns China for their heavy handed response in this case.




The ill intention to label an economic-equality issue with religion color is so blatant and pathetic!

Remind you that the rioters were also attacking Muslims, including Uighur and Hui.

Moreover, there were also many instances that Uighurs protected Han during the riots according to various un-official sources. How do you explain this?

Thus, your try is doomed to reduce into laughter before the knowledged.

Why don't you enable yourself to access Chinese source for a more complete picture instead of relying on Western ones?


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## Gabbar

May be they are not silence after all.

*Turkey wants U.N. to discuss Xinjiang violence*

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Turkey's Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said on Wednesday his country will ask the U.N. Security Council to discuss ways of ending ethnic violence in China's northwestern region of Xinjiang.

Predominantly Muslim Turkey has a non-permanent seat at the Security Council. At least 156 people have been killed in clashes between Uighurs and Han Chinese in the capital of Xinjiang. Uighurs are a Turkic people who share linguistic and cultural bonds with central Asia.

"We will put the events happening in the Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region onto the agenda of the United Nations' Security Council," Erdogan told a meeting of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) in Istanbul.

On Tuesday, around 250 protesters in the capital Ankara briefly scuffled with police outside the Chinese Embassy.

Turkey is a common destination for Uighurs who have emigrated from China and Turkish pan-Turkic groups see the ethnic group as the easternmost frontier of Turkic ethnicity.


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## dabong1

How many Uighurs died compared to han..?

As far as i can gather the Uighurs attacked the han and killed a lot of people and the next day there was a reaction by the han and it turned into riots.

So you want us to support any muslim group and it does not matter if its right or wrong?


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## wtf

Gabbar said:


> We are not looking for GOP's comments on this issue. It's China's internal matter and they will take care of it. But if this was happened in India, do you think some posters would of licking thier chops to take shots at India. Why so fair and wait for the news theory on other country but not India? Lets wait for neutral sources when it happens in friendly country but if it happenes in India, some people would just make up their mind before they even finish reading the news. Interesting for sure, dont you think so?



If most people see a beggar they will give him/her some money most of the time. At the same time, most do nothing about people dying in Africa. 
Similarly, If I saw a man and women argue, I might try to stop it. If I knew they were husband and wife, I'll keep quiet because I know if I interfere, they'll team up and beat me up.
Would you say that it is incorrect or uncommon ? People try to attack issues closer to home or things they can affect. If it is far away or they know it is a fight they can't win, they'll keep quiet.

To put it in real terms.
Pakistan split from India and feel that they are better off compared to Indian Muslims. So (some) Pakistani people use a riot in India to say "I told you so". Some others see Indian Muslims as same as themselves, but living with different decisions. Some other Pakistani people just hate India, so obviously they complain. There are a few who really believe that a global Islamic movement come above their country, but they really are a few. Some of them might complain now about China. But even among those people, there'll be a few who are pragmatic and see benefits in keeping quiet on China which is very powerful.

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## PeaceForAll

wtf said:


> If most people see a beggar they will give him/her some money most of the time. At the same time, most do nothing about people dying in Africa.
> Similarly, If I saw a man and women argue, I might try to stop it. If I knew they were husband and wife, I'll keep quiet because I know if I interfere, they'll team up and beat me up.
> Would you say that it is incorrect or uncommon ? People try to attack issues closer to home or things they can affect. If it is far away or they know it is a fight they can't win, they'll keep quiet.
> 
> To put it in real terms.
> Pakistan split from India and feel that they are better off compared to Indian Muslims. *So (some) Pakistani people use a riot in India to say "I told you so".* Some others see Indian Muslims as same as themselves, but living with different decisions. Some other Pakistani people just hate India, so obviously they complain. There are a few who really believe that a global Islamic movement come above their country, but they really are a few. Some of them might complain now about China. But even among those people, there'll be a few who are pragmatic and see benefits in keeping quiet on China which is very powerful.




I would be a very happy person if people from pakistan and People from india feel that ways to each other. If they are more bothered about each other (if stuff happens in Pakistan, India quick to point it and vice versa) then maybe its just because of a "jealous sibling" attitude but still "sibling"

Sometimes I feel maybe we should have had a common enemy - the whole of the subcontinent - it should be something like Pak , india and BD Vs some big enemy. Maybe then we will come out of our petty differences!

How many wars have the european coutries fought against each other? How come they are a "Union" now with strong economy? Why doesnt that happen to the place where 1/5th of humanity lives??

come to think of it, combined armies of India, Pak, BD would send shudders down the spine of any "four-letter word" country in the world. With the amount of scietific know how, religious sanctity, enormous places of historic values, we should be stinking rich by now.

Remember, the "Indian subcontinent " (not India alone ) was #1 in economic terms until the 18th century and that is because it was "Indian subcontinent" not India, not pakistan, not BD.

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## gubbi

blain2 said:


> Mubarak! I wonder if that Imam suggested the same to his community over the carnage of Muslims in Chechnya. My advice to the Indians is to not try to pull cheap shots here by highlighting points to instigate. When was the last time you posted an article about an Indian Imam decrying the atrocities of the Indian forces in IoK? Who has the guts to do so in India? I am sure the day the Imam says something of this nature, your RSS crackpots will burn him and his family alive.
> 
> Simply amazing tactics of instigation...



You apparently don't follow news about Muslims leaders condemning Indian forces actions in Kashmir.

And as to your flimsy excuses for an argument and blaming Indians, I still don't see outrage from our respected Pakistani members.
Apparently you don't know much about the happenings in China where many Muslims were recently killed and so you cannot 'comment' on that. On the other hand, you seem to have indepth knowledge of happenings in India and so you can make 'informed' comments on that? Amusing, aint it?
So people cry foul on seeing the video of two students being beaten in India *assuming* they are muslims, but not a whimper on seeing and reading about Muslims being *Killed* in china!!
Accept what suits you, discard what doesn't. This goes for other Muslim nations as well. You all cry foul over Palestinians, Kashmiris, Indian Muslims, but not a voice of protest for Kurds, the free-for-all killfest during 03-07 Iraq quagmire, nor the recent protests in Iran against hardline clerics.
Now doesn't it smell of something similar? Oh wait, its POLITICS! Apparently its OK if China does it, or supports regimes who do it a la Sudan.
So much for Muslim brotherhood!
Do you really have an answer for that Blain?

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## scshqgcm

anathema said:


> It is purely china's internal matter and china is more than capable of solving it. Stuff just happens.
> 
> However your above sentence caught my eye.
> 
> I really wish there are more true muslims out there and i believe there are...However the problem is moderates never come out in support and the fanatics supress them ..Moderates just talk and nothing else....
> 
> Taliban doesnt kill women ....Sir ....Taliban is capable of killing anyone .....monsters they are...stoning , beheading , shooting ....anything....there's a tone of material which shows that....Point is ...Fanatics in the name of any religion is capable of anything .........women children doesnt matter




few years ago,Afghanistan Taliban had got 10+Korea hostage,and they killed some of man,but not touch women.
i dont know if they change now,or they would kill women and kids in their terrorism now ,i just dont get a news that they killed people on the street in such way


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## dbc

gubbi said:


> You apparently don't follow news about Muslims leaders condemning Indian forces actions in Kashmir.
> 
> And as to your flimsy excuses for an argument and blaming Indians, I still don't see outrage from our respected Pakistani members.
> Apparently you don't know much about the happenings in China where many Muslims were recently killed and so you cannot 'comment' on that. On the other hand, you seem to have indepth knowledge of happenings in India and so you can make 'informed' comments on that? Amusing, aint it?
> So people cry foul on seeing the video of two students being beaten in India *assuming* they are muslims, but not a whimper on seeing and reading about Muslims being *Killed* in china!!
> Accept what suits you, discard what doesn't. This goes for other Muslim nations as well. You all cry foul over Palestinians, Kashmiris, Indian Muslims, but not a voice of protest for Kurds, the free-for-all killfest during 03-07 Iraq quagmire, nor the recent protests in Iran against hardline clerics.
> Now doesn't it smell of something similar? Oh wait, its POLITICS! Apparently its OK if China does it, or supports regimes who do it a la Sudan.
> So much for Muslim brotherhood!
> Do you really have an answer for that Blain?



Allow me; it's called instinct for self preservation. It is the way of the world, how often has India objected to Russian brutality? A quarter of your population is Muslim and yet the government of India is silent? Why? The answer is simple; India does not want to antagonize China.

Ever heard the phrase "Might is right"? 
Welcome to the real world gubbi...


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## ARSENAL6

How many Uighurs died compared to han..?

As far as i can gather, id10ts islamophobes come here on this forum and making anti-islam remarks aswell as making false claims to attack many Muslim. They also do this to stir-up trouble amongst Chinese and Pakistan due their fear of powerful relationship between them and lack of control. 

"So you want us to support any muslim group and it does not matter if its right or wrong" HELL NO ! concentrate your childish bickering against the racists and fundametallist extrismist Christian Terrorist known as evangelical Christians !


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## ARSENAL6

anathema said:


> I
> 
> Taliban doesnt kill women ....Sir ....Taliban is capable of killing anyone .....monsters they are...stoning , beheading , shooting ....anything....there's a tone of material which shows that....Point is ...Fanatics in the name of any religion is capable of anything .........women children doesnt matter




Funny that rings a bell you can take these words and put to describe the coalitions troops, It brings out the truth especially the US.

I have yet to see a Hindu come out in number and protest in anger of the treat of Muslims in India never seen such thing


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## scshqgcm

gpit said:


> Normally those types of witless craps deserve no reply from me. I nonetheless hope to utilize this opportunity to summarize what I meant earlier:
> 
> *If Han is not considered as local in Xinjiang, then Uighur is not, either.
> 
> If Uighur is considered as local in Xinjiang, then Han is local, too, and perhaps even more local.*
> 
> Low IQ people may still ask why?
> 
> This is because Han entered Xinjiang several centuries earlier than Uighur was formed and keeps staying there, albeit with smaller population compared with Uighur.
> 
> Remind you all that *Xinjiang has been called home not only by Uighur or Han, but also by all 47 of 56 Chinese ethnics*. They are all local to Xinjiang.
> 
> Ethnic Percent in Xinjiang (2004)
> Uighur 45. 73%
> Han 39. 75%
> Kazakh 7.04%
> Hui 4.46%
> .
> .
> .



trust me ,man
if China is in trouble ,they would not care about who is local or not .

even some of indians said 156 death in Xinjiang is Uighur,and killed by chinese army 
they think it is a peaceful protest

who can tell me a peaceful protest killed 156,and 1080 wounded in 3 hours,what kind of a protest it is?

is there any one know how long the protest in Thailand? more than one year,and how many people died? 1 ,only one,ok?

what a f@ck protest it is ? how funny it is a country of freedom?right? 
indians is fighting for Uighur racist ,how holy you r ?
sh@t


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## scshqgcm

ARSENAL6 said:


> Funny that rings a bell you can take these words and put to describe the coalitions troops, It brings out the truth especially the US.
> 
> I have yet to see a Hindu come out in number and protest in anger of the treat of Muslims in India never seen such thing



come on ,man
the indians r trying so hard to make China a anti-Islam country,if you r so honest ,they will feel bad
and i still dont trust prejudice on religion,i believe a true Muslim would not kill innocent people


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## scshqgcm

the Islamic leaders r the targets of the racist or terrorists too,some of them had been killed


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Riot happened just before the G-8 meeting, isn't the timing suspicious as it made Chinese delegation to quite G-8 as they were purposing second international currency on that forum Vs $$.


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Riot happened just before the G-8 meeting, isn't the timing suspicious as it made Chinese delegation to quite G-8 as they were purposing second international currency on that forum Vs $$.


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## gubbi

Death.By.Chocolate said:


> Allow me; it's called instinct for self preservation. It is the way of the world, how often has India objected to Russian brutality? A quarter of your population is Muslim and yet the government of India is silent? Why? The answer is simple; India does not want to antagonize China.
> 
> Ever heard the phrase "Might is right"?
> Welcome to the real world gubbi...



India never goes around shouting herself hoarse that they are the beacons of any one particular religion. As far as Govt of India is concerned, they are responsible for territorial integrity of India. If they start supporting secessionist movements, they might have to answer the problems they are facing now. So its not that they are afraid of antagonizing China. If that was the case, we would'nt be shoring up our defenses along the Indo-Tibet border in Arunachal Pradesh. China is NOT a benefactor to India, they are our competitors.
On the other hand, Pakistan doesn't condemn the Chinese atrocites on Ughir population, clearly, because they cannot - note this - *afford to* antagonize the Chinese. The important point here is China is one of the main benefactors of Pakistan.

So the reason why I posted the article is to draw your attention to the fact that despite all the grandiloquence of Muslim brotherhood espoused by many members here in relation to Indian Muslims (Kashmiris included), it all boils down to business and realpolitik when it come to affairs between countries. Religion has no place in it. Case in point - China & Pakistan.

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## gubbi

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Riot happened just before the G-8 meeting, isn't the timing suspicious as it made Chinese delegation to quite G-8 as they were purposing second international currency on that forum Vs $$.



Not another baseless conspiracy theory!
France is supporting Chinese proposal too. Its in the news. Do you see riots in France?


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Riot happened just before the G-8 meeting, isn't the timing suspicious as it made Chinese delegation to quite G-8 as they were purposing second international currency on that forum Vs $$.


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## Gabbar

Death.By.Chocolate said:


> Allow me; it's called instinct for self preservation. It is the way of the world, how often has India objected to Russian brutality? A quarter of your population is Muslim and yet the government of India is silent? Why? The answer is simple; India does not want to antagonize China.
> 
> Ever heard the phrase "Might is right"?
> Welcome to the real world gubbi...



I can see your point of argument but this is not about India or about China it self. This is China's internal matter and I respect that but my point was that there have lots of argument muslims standing up for other muslims anywhere in the world and I wanted to know how come there not same concern. I never meant to trash China, Pakistan or any body else just a very simple question that could be answerd. 

I dont why people are getting personal and anti-India and anti-China here.


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Riot happened just before the G-8 meeting, isn't the timing suspicious as it made Chinese delegation to quite G-8 as they were purposing second international currency on that forum Vs $$.


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## dbc

Mods clean up on aisle # 21


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## luoshan

oops.. facebook and twitter is not accessible in china now ..


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## dbc

Gabbar said:


> I can see your point of argument but this is not about India or about China it self. This is China's internal matter and I respect that but my point was that there have lots of argument muslims standing up for other muslims anywhere in the world and I wanted to know how come there not same concern. I never meant to trash China, Pakistan or any body else just a very simple question that could be answerd.
> 
> I dont why people are getting personal and anti-India and anti-China here.



You should read what A1Kaid wrote in the thread "Red China's Fear of Islam". For the others it may be a bit premature to comment. If Chinese media reports are believed then the death toll was mostly Han Chinese - unfortunate victims of Uyghur violence. If this is corroborated by independent sources then gubbis argument deflates like the soufflé I made for dinner

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## Omar1984

This has nothing to do with "Muslim" or "Communist" or "Buddhist". Pakistan has the same problem with BLA terrorists and they are also "Muslim" and Pakistan is over 95% Muslim. So this has nothing to do with religion.

Xinjiang is not a disputed territory. Everyone in the world recognizes Xinjiang as part of China.

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## jeypore

Omar1984 said:


> This has nothing to do with "Muslim" or "Communist" or "Buddhist". Pakistan has the same problem with BLA terrorists and they are also "Muslim" and Pakistan is over 95% Muslim. So this has nothing to do with religion.
> 
> *Xinjiang is not a disputed territory*. Everyone in the world recognizes Xinjiang as part of China.



Mr. Omar, you have put this statement twice. Xinjiang is not a disputed territory true, besides the people of Xinjiang. The problem with anger with the Han is CCP migration policy of Han into Xinjiang area. Where free pass hakou is given to Hans to germinate the area and to setup shop, While Xinjiang hakou is limited only in there areas. Riots have a deep reasons, one should look at the cause of the anger.


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## Omar1984

jeypore said:


> Mr. Omar, you have put this statement twice. Xinjiang is not a disputed territory true, besides the people of Xinjiang. The problem with anger with the Han is CCP migration policy of Han into Xinjiang area. Where free pass hakou is given to Hans to germinate the area and to setup shop, While Xinjiang hakou is limited only in there areas. Riots have a deep reasons, one should look at the cause of the anger.



This is China's internal problem. Xinjiang is an integral part of China, it must obey Chinese law and Chinese citizens can live anywhere in China. Xinjiang shares no dispute with any other country. No country, except China, claims Xinjiang as part of their territory.

And dont bring religion into this, this is not about religion..its about an ethnicity. China has more than 20 million Muslims and they are not all Uyghurs.

This problem China has is with *some* UYghur rebels not with Muslims.

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## jeypore

Omar1984 said:


> This is China's internal problem. Xinjiang is an integral part of China, it must obey Chinese law and Chinese citizens can live anywhere in China. Xinjiang shares no dispute with any other country. No country, except China, claims Xinjiang as part of their territory.
> 
> And dont bring religion into this, this is not about religion..its about an ethnicity. China has more than 20 million Muslims and they are not all Uyghurs.
> 
> This problem China has is with *some* UYghur rebels not with Muslims.




What are you rambling about, where in my post did I say Xinjiang is disputed terroritory? Infact I agreed with you. Where in my post did I bring up religion? 

The problem is the germination of Hans in Xinjiang. Anyways my last post on this thread!!!!


----------



## Omar1984

jeypore said:


> What are you rambling about, where in my post did I say Xinjiang is disputed terroritory? Infact I agreed with you. Where in my post did I bring up religion?
> 
> The problem is the germination of Hans in Xinjiang. Anyways my last post on this thread!!!!



The people, Uyghur and Hans, are all Chinese citizens. There shouldn't be a problem with Chinese citizens settling into another part of their country thats not disputed.


Its like telling a Tamil from South India that he cant settle in Mumbai or a New Yorker that he cant settle in California.


I dont see a problem with Hans settling in Xinjiang. If Xinjiang was a disputed territory, recognized by the UN as disputed, then there would be a problem with Hans settling in Xinjiang but that is not the case.


----------



## jeypore

Omar1984 said:


> The people, Uyghur and Hans, are all Chinese citizens. There shouldn't be a problem with Chinese citizens settling into another part of their country thats not disputed.
> 
> 
> Its like telling a Tamil from South India that he cant settle in Mumbai or a New Yorker that he cant settle in California.
> 
> 
> *I dont see a problem with Hans settling in Xinjiang.* If Xinjiang was a disputed territory, recognized by the UN as disputed, then there would be a problem with Hans settling in Xinjiang but that is not the case.



I lied, this is going to be my last post. There is a such thing as equal treatment, ask any Xinjiang if he can freely travel and settle at Bejing or any other major cities in China, besides Xinjiang. 

Regards.


----------



## AkhandBharat

China has ordered mosques in its restive western city of Urumqi not to open for Friday prayers.

The order comes after several days of ethnic violence between Uighur Muslims and Han Chinese. At least 156 people have been killed so far.

Thousands of troops remain in Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang province, to try to maintain order.

The Chinese authorities have vowed to administer "severe punishment" to those involved in the riots.

An unnamed government official told the Associated Press news agency that people in Xinjiang should "stay at home and pray", rather than gathering in mosques.

The official said the order had been given on public safety ground.

The violence began on Sunday when Uighurs rallied to protest against a deadly brawl between Uighurs and Han several weeks ago in a toy factory in southern Guangdong province.

Security has been high in the city since the recent unrest

Officials say 156 people - mostly Han - died in Sunday's violence.

Uighur groups say many more have died, claiming 90% of the dead were Uighurs.

More than 1,400 people are thought to have been detained.

On Thursday, China said it had "a great deal of evidence" that some of those involved in the violence had "training from foreign terrorist groups including Al-Qaeda".

Foreign ministry official Qin Gang did not say what the evidence was, but said the groups were "inextricably linked with three vicious forces from abroad".

Tensions have been growing in Xinjiang for many years, as Han migrants have poured into the region, where the Uighur minority is concentrated.

Many Uighurs feel economic growth has bypassed them and complain of discrimination and diminished opportunities. 

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China bans Urumqi mosque prayers


----------



## notsuperstitious

I think Pakistanis have taken a realistic stand that nation states come first, its interests come first and ummah last. India is an exception, but wasn't long befoe Pakistanis were collecting money to fight in Chechnya. Its nice to see people have seen the light finally.

Hopefully we won't be hearing of Gujrat riots anymore as Gujrat is an integral part of India. All benefit.


----------



## third eye

fateh71 said:


> I think Pakistanis have taken a realistic stand that nation states come first, its interests come first and ummah last. India is an exception, but wasn't long befoe Pakistanis were collecting money to fight in Chechnya. Its nice to see people have seen the light finally.
> 
> Hopefully we won't be hearing of Gujrat riots anymore as Gujrat is an integral part of India. All benefit.



Nation come 1st very selectively.

Some people are more equal than others.


----------



## third eye

Wonder how Muslims outside Pk will take to this ?


----------



## shravan

PeaceForAll said:


> How come they are a "Union" now with strong economy? Why doesnt that happen to the place where 1/5th of humanity lives??



Can you tell why 50% of the worlds money is with America ?

And I hate when a American uses a pacifist and humanitarian speech...


----------



## afriend

Guddi, your question is a geninue one, but that i guess have been addressed by various posts. There is a relation between pakistan and india, be it of hate or love(and i love the way peaceforall put it "jeleous sibilings") and people to tend to condemn the affairs of the two countries more. 

However this question is still valid for those who think they are the custodians of Islam and will condemn everything and anything without getting proper picture, they are just silent because the economics doesn't work out well..!!!!


----------



## Su 30mki

Omar1984 said:


> This is China's internal problem. Xinjiang is an integral part of China, it must obey Chinese law and Chinese citizens can live anywhere in China. Xinjiang shares no dispute with any other country. No country, except China, claims Xinjiang as part of their territory.
> 
> And dont bring religion into this, this is not about religion..its about an ethnicity. China has more than 20 million Muslims and they are not all Uyghurs.
> 
> This problem China has is with *some* UYghur rebels not with Muslims.



Chinas drive to develop Xinjiangs resources has spurred an influx of migrants and bred resentment among Uighurs, who complain of discrimination and political and cultural repression. *Han Chinese now account for half the provinces 21 million population, from 7 percent in the 1953 census. *

At school, we were never allowed to wear the traditional Uighur hat as the Chinese saw it as a threat to them if we showed our national identity, said Haiyur, the Uighur exile. *Uighurs were prevented from celebrating a traditional festival, banned from gathering in public and forced to learn Chinese, he said. *
*
Almost all the factories in Xinjiang are Chinese-owned, Haiyur said. Often you would find a big poster outside the factories saying We dont need ethnic minorities for this position. *

Riots Expose China?s Ethnic Divisions, Uneven Growth (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

Here goes your questions


----------



## Su 30mki

scshqgcm said:


> trust me ,man
> if China is in trouble ,they would not care about who is local or not .
> 
> even some of indians said 156 death in Xinjiang is Uighur,and killed by chinese army
> they think it is a peaceful protest
> 
> who can tell me a peaceful protest killed 156,and 1080 wounded in 3 hours,what kind of a protest it is?
> 
> is there any one know how long the protest in Thailand? more than one year,and how many people died? 1 ,only one,ok?
> 
> what a f@ck protest it is ? how funny it is a country of freedom?right?
> indians is fighting for Uighur racist ,how holy you r ?
> sh@t



*Almost all the factories in Xinjiang are Chinese-owned, Haiyur said. Often you would find a big poster outside the factories saying We dont need ethnic minorities for this position. *

*Han Chinese now account for half the provinces 21 million population, from 7 percent in the 1953 census.* 

if they are Racist . then what you are? how their population declined? Have nay Logical reasons ?


----------



## Su 30mki

scshqgcm said:


> come on ,man
> the indians r trying so hard to make China a anti-Islam country,if you r so honest ,they will feel bad
> and i still dont trust prejudice on religion,i believe a true Muslim would not kill innocent people



You Mean to say , BLA, Kashmir Terrorists and Let etc and Taliban is not True Muslim ?


----------



## Su 30mki

scshqgcm said:


> few years ago,Afghanistan Taliban had got 10+Korea hostage,and they killed some of man,but not touch women.
> i dont know if they change now,or they would kill women and kids in their terrorism now ,i just dont get a news that they killed people on the street in such way



If your not getting true Stories , then dont think world is change, ask your media to provide true stories and ull know what happening around the world.


----------



## quriosity

Su 30mki said:


> If your not getting true Stories , then dont think world is change, ask your media to provide true stories and ull know what happening around the world.



calm down... i am giving you a true story... from western media...  

*Search for Han Chinese sister whose family were butchered by Uighurs*

Search for Han Chinese sister whose family were butchered by Uighurs - Times Online

What was once a grocery shop is now a blackened mess. Two boys in shorts and singlets play in the rubble but the usual occupants are absent. Five days ago a Han Chinese family was butchered in this small shop  victims of the Uighurs who rampaged through Urumqi.

Yu Dongzhi described how he clawed through the smoking ruins of the store to search for the family who lived there. He hoped to find his sister, Yu Xinli; her husband, Zhang Mingying; their 13-year-old son; her elderly mother-in-law; and a nephew aged 27.

The police helped him to dig among sacks of flour and bottles of rice wine melted by the heat of the blaze.

He found no survivors, only four bodies. He has yet to discover the fate of his sister.

Mr Yu is a heavily built man in his fifties and more than 6ft, but he almost weeps with despair. I just hope I can find my sister in an intensive care unit of one of the hospitals. But so far, nothing.

He has checked the mortuaries and photo galleries of unclaimed bodies held by the police, but his sister was not among them.

He has been refused access to the intensive care units. I dont say that I want to go in to disturb these very sick people, but why cant they show us photographs of the injured? At least then I could find my sister, he said.

Mr Yu cannot bear to think that she may have been dragged away by the rioters and murdered.

Just coping with the deaths of his sisters family has almost overwhelmed him. The bodies were among the corpses whose pictures have been carried in local newspapers. So shocking was the family tragedy that one newspaper carried a special report on it, Police have confirmed the killings.

As The Times stood outside what is left of No 447 Zhongwan Street, a Han neighbour approached. She had watched the killings from her home in an apartment block overlooking the store.

We saw hundreds of Uighurs running down the street on the afternoon of July 5. About ten suddenly rushed into the store. They began to hit the people inside, even the old mother, with bricks and stones. They tried to run outside. Then they were dragged back inside.

There were terrible screams. Just wordless screams. But then very quickly they fell silent.

She said that the son tried to hide in a chicken coop but was dragged out and his head was cut off. All the victims were left to burn inside the building. The corpses of the boy and his father were found beheaded. Mr Yu said: Even the 84-year-old mother was stoned and then burnt. It was terrible, terrible. So cruel.

Mr Yu made his way yesterday to a temporary emergency centre in an Urumqi hotel. At some desks clerks helped Han and Uighurs to process requests for compensation for damaged cars or destroyed businesses.

In a corner, two women waited at a desk for families seeking missing loved ones or reporting the deaths of relatives. This was where Mr Yu hoped to find help in the hunt for his sister. Officials were unable to explain what he could do next.

He sat in the hotel room-turned-office surrounded by relatives, just waiting. I still have to keep up my hopes, he said.

Mr Yu is too busy looking for his sister to organise the funerals for her family. That painful task will come next.

More than a decade ago his brother-in-law moved from central Henan province to run a successful business in a district with a high proportion of ethnic Uighur residents. Perhaps they were jealous of his success. They clearly targeted the family. It looked as if they had decided in advance to pick on my sister. The police are pursuing the case and they have made some arrests, said Mr Yu.

Nearby, a Uighur family run a small restaurant. The man shrugged when asked about the family who only a week ago ran a thriving business. He refused to talk about his late Han neighbours.


----------



## quriosity

Su 30mki said:


> *Almost all the factories in Xinjiang are Chinese-owned, Haiyur said. Often you would find a big poster outside the factories saying We dont need ethnic minorities for this position. *
> 
> *Han Chinese now account for half the provinces 21 million population, from 7 percent in the 1953 census.*
> 
> if they are Racist . then what you are? how their population declined? Have nay Logical reasons ?



no... hans cant have more than one child, Uighurs can have as many as they want... no economic discrimination... because Rebya Kadeer herself a Uighur woman became millionaire doing business... 

you get facts corrected....  

believe me, this kanyakubja dont lie holding his thread...


----------



## quriosity

Su 30mki said:


> Chinas drive to develop Xinjiangs resources has spurred an influx of migrants and bred resentment among Uighurs, who complain of discrimination and political and cultural repression. *Han Chinese now account for half the provinces 21 million population, from 7 percent in the 1953 census. *
> 
> At school, we were never allowed to wear the traditional Uighur hat as the Chinese saw it as a threat to them if we showed our national identity, said Haiyur, the Uighur exile. *Uighurs were prevented from celebrating a traditional festival, banned from gathering in public and forced to learn Chinese, he said. *
> *
> Almost all the factories in Xinjiang are Chinese-owned, Haiyur said. Often you would find a big poster outside the factories saying We dont need ethnic minorities for this position. *
> 
> Riots Expose China?s Ethnic Divisions, Uneven Growth (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
> 
> Here goes your questions



we are also suffering from same problem... dont tell these things... u dont represent India.... in India we are first Indians... in China all are Chinese first.... Russia supported China... you dont spread these...please...


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## luoshan

quriosity said:


> no... hans cant have more than one child, Uighurs can have as many as they want... no economic discrimination... because Rebya Kadeer herself a Uighur woman became millionaire doing business...
> 
> you get facts corrected....
> 
> believe me, this kanyakubja dont lie holding his thread...



Population increase is not only due to procreation, it can also happen by planned and deliberate mass migration. This is what is exactly happening in Xinjiang and Tibet. The Han Chinese people are moving into these provinces which had majority of non-Han ethnic people a few decades ago. Slowly these non-han ethnic people are becoming a minority in their own lands.


----------



## luoshan

China bans Friday Prayers at Urumqi mosques

China has ordered mosques in the riot-hit Urumqi to stay closed for Friday prayers in the wake of ethnic violence in the city, an official said. 

The official who identified herself as a government worker but refused to give her name said on Friday that the decision to close down mosques had been made for public safety, adding that "people should stay at home today and pray," AP reported. 

Officials in Kashgar, another city in Xinjiang Province have suspended visits by foreigners. They have ordered foreigners and visiting journalists to leave the city. 

The protests, which saw 156 people killed and more than 1,100 others injured, were sparked over last month's deaths of Uighur factory workers during a brawl in southern China. 

The eight million Uighurs in Xinjiang accuse the Chinese government of discrimination and repression. The government, however, denies the charges. 
China bans mosque prayers in Urumqi


----------



## quriosity

luoshan said:


> Population increase is not only due to procreation, it can also happen by planned and deliberate mass migration. This is what is exactly happening in Xinjiang and Tibet. The Han Chinese people are moving into these provinces which had majority of non-Han ethnic people a few decades ago. Slowly these non-han ethnic people are becoming a minority in their own lands.



they are chinese citizens, why you describe some as hans, as uighurs, as ram, as rahim... all citizens are free to go anywhere in their country... in India we all can go anywhere we want... you are like Raj Thakary I see...!!! 

why dont uighurs go to other parts of china..? 

and slowly they are not becoming minority... they are becoming chinese nationals...  

India and China have just same problems... keep this in mind...


----------



## quriosity

in India we are facing same problem... we should learn from that incident... we need more national integration.... or we will have such attacks on civilians...


----------



## oct605032048

By WILLIAM FOREMAN and GILLIAN WONG  1 hour ago

The Associated Press: Some Urumqi mosques open for Friday prayers

URUMQI, China (AP)  Several mosques in riot-hit Urumqi opened for Friday prayers, despite notices posted earlier saying they would be closed in the wake of ethnic violence that left 156 dead.

It was not immediately clear if there was a change of policy or if the mosques were opened because crowds gathered outside them. The Friday afternoon prayers are a focal point of the week for the minority Muslim Uighurs.

At the White mosque, one of the most popular places to worship in the large Uighur neighborhood of Er Dao Qiao, about 100 men argued with guards, demanding that they be allowed in for prayers.

A Uighur policeman guarding the mosque, who would not give his name, said: "We decided to open the mosque because so many people had gathered. We did not want an incident."

Kaishar, a 23-year-old car salesman, said his heart ached when he first saw the gates to the mosque.

"There was no reason to shut the gate. They said it was for our safety but actually there is no need, nothing will happen here. On a day of prayer things are not supposed to be messed with," said Kaishar, with a red prayer mat folded under his arm.

It was not known if all the mosques across the city of 2.3 million people were opened.

Notices had been posted at the mosques saying they would be closed, and an official, who refused to give her name, said they would not be open for "the sake of public safety" after widespread ethnic violence between Uighurs (pronounced WEE-ger) and the majority Han Chinese.

Up the street a few blocks from the White mosque was the Yang Hang mosque, where in the morning a white notice was glued to the front gate saying it would be closed for prayers.

But the notice was taken down and hundreds of men were streaming into the place of worships clutching their green and red and blue prayer mats.

The scene was peaceful and there was no sign of the heavy police presence that has been patrolling the streets this week.

The violence in Urumqi (pronounced uh-ROOM-chee) began Sunday when Uighurs clashed with police while protesting deaths of Uighur factory workers in a brawl in another part of the country. The crowd then scattered throughout Urumqi, attacking Han Chinese, burning cars and smashing windows. Riot police tried to restore order, and officials said 156 people were killed and more than 1,100 were injured.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.


----------



## oct605032048

Urumqi Muslims Defy Closed Mosque to Pray After Riots (Update1)
Share | Email | Print | A A A

Urumqi Muslims Defy Closed Mosque to Pray After Riots (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

By Bloomberg News

July 10 (Bloomberg) -- About 200 worshippers forced their way into Urumqis largest mosque, defying an order to stay home as authorities sought to maintain calm in the northwestern Chinese city after the worst ethnic violence in 60 years.

Three days of rioting and communal clashes between Muslim Uighurs and ethnic Chinese in the capital of the westernmost province of Xinjiang forced President Hu Jintao to cut short his trip to the Group of Eight summit in Italy. At least 25,000 security personnel were deployed to stop the ethnic clashes.

There was no sermon and after about 10 minutes of prayers the service was cut short and worshippers began to file out. On a typical Friday, the holiest day of the week in Islam, as many as 3,000 people pray at the mosque, overflowing into the courtyard and out of the gates, said its director Haji Bekele.

We were afraid something horrible would happen if too many people gathered in one place, said Bekele, director of the mosque for five years. Protecting the worshippers was our only motivation, he said, adding that this was the first time he could remember the mosque closing on a Friday.

The Chinese military is enforcing an uneasy truce in the capital of Chinas westernmost territory, separating ethnic Hans and Uighurs from each other after July 5 clashes left at least 156 people dead and more than 800 injured.

At 2:00 p.m., about 200 worshippers whod been gathering in the Tartar Mosques courtyard forced their way through the entrance. A handwritten sign on the mosques gates declaring todays closure was ripped off.

Two dozen police officers were lined up outside the mosque gates, standing guard in black uniform and full riot gear.

The Urumqi government denied it had ordered mosques to close or telling Muslims, which make up about a fifth of the citys 2.4 million residents, to pray at home today.

The closure was recommended by the mosques themselves, each one managed by a different committee of religious elders, Bekele said. A dozen of the largest mosques in the Urumqi neighborhood of Erdaoqiao met yesterday and decided they would close today because of the safety concerns, said Bekele, 59.


----------



## oct605032048

Su 30mki said:


> *&#8220;Almost all the factories in Xinjiang are Chinese-owned,&#8221; Haiyur said. &#8220;Often you would find a big poster outside the factories saying &#8216;We don&#8217;t need ethnic minorities for this position.&#8217;&#8221; *
> 
> *Han Chinese now account for half the province&#8217;s 21 million population, from 7 percent in the 1953 census.*
> 
> if they are Racist . then what you are? how their population declined? Have nay Logical reasons ?



The uigher population has been increased from 3.29million in 1949 to 8.29million in 2000 and i don't know why you call that a decline?
The gradually change of composition of Xinjiang's population is due to the migration of people from neighbouring provinces for the reason that Xinjiang has long been emjoying a relatively high growth rate.(Also there are also uighur people migrated from Xinjiang to the eastern coastal area as well.)


http://hi.baidu.com/%D0%C2%BD%AE%B2%CE%BF%BC%D7%C9%D1%AF/blog/item/bfe90451ee44be2c43a75b05.html

BTW do you agree or disagree with idea of Free-migration for people within your own country?


----------



## Kasrkin

fateh71 said:


> I think Pakistanis have taken a realistic stand that nation states come first, its interests come first and ummah last. India is an exception, but wasn't long befoe Pakistanis were collecting money to fight in Chechnya. Its nice to see people have seen the light finally.
> 
> Hopefully we won't be hearing of Gujrat riots anymore as Gujrat is an integral part of India. All benefit.



Pakistanis have always raised voices for Muslims around the world whenever their causes are justified. Be that in Kashmir, Palestine, Chechnya or a host of other states. India is no exception. 

We fully condemn this violence and whoever perpetrated it. However we will not be making politically motivated, sweeping and unqualified comments like some of our Indian members are itching to do so. 

Also remind yourselves that the decades long atrocities in Kashmir by Indian state services or even the Gujrat massacres are obviously way more outrageous, deadly and condemnable than anything thats happen in China recently. As is half a century long violent Israeli suppression of Palestinians or Russias brutal campaign against Chechens that leveled whole cities, etc. I can understand how a few of you are dying for some rhetorical payback for when we pointed out your own excesses in Kashmir and elsewhere, but the fact remains that Kashmir is _Disputed Territory_ militarily annexed by India therefore there are hardly any parallels. Even in the Indian mainland the atrocities against Muslims should give Indians reason for modestly and restrain when discussing this ugly episode in China, least you be branded hypocrites.


----------



## glomex

Kasrkin said:


> Also remind yourselves that the decades long atrocities in Kashmir by Indian state services or even the Gujrat massacres are obviously way more outrageous, deadly and condemnable than anything that&#8217;s happen in China recently. As is half a century long violent Israeli suppression of Palestinians or Russia&#8217;s brutal campaign against Chechens that leveled whole cities, etc. I can understand how a few of you are dying for some rhetorical payback for when we pointed out your own excesses in Kashmir and elsewhere, but the fact remains that Kashmir is _Disputed Territory_ militarily annexed by India therefore there are hardly any parallels. Even in the Indian mainland the atrocities against Muslims should give Indians reason for modestly and restrain when discussing this ugly episode in China, least you be branded hypocrites.





These so called decade long Atrocities claimed by Pakistani media is the Indian response to insurgency just similar to Pakistani army's offensive in Swat and NWFP. ........ terrorists deserve to die.....and you may like to call them by the name of mujahidins/fidayins/talibanis but the fact is they are terrorists... Just because they are in Kashmir does not make them less bad..... they've got guns....they have got bombs and they kill ......so they deserve to be killed....

Why this hipocracy .....your army action against insurgents is called national duty....but India's action against similar insurgents is called cruality...brutality...atrocities...


And if Kashmir is a disputed region then Pakistan has the other half of the disputed region....you tell me what has Pakistan done for Pakistan administered Kashmir apart from stationing your army over there.....there is a dummy government though...to fool the world...

Gujarat incident was wrong and both communities were party to it.....do you know that Hindus got killed in the train burnt by Muslim mob....and in subsequent riots as well.....but i guess you simply can't see that.....they were not a right thing and entire country was against them...


Regarding your claim that Muslims are ill treated in India......then let me tell you a Muslim has equal rights just like a Hindu....but you can't expect freebies if you don't have skills to earn a living..........if Muslim is educated and qualified he gets his due share of respect and money in India and a Hindu who is not educate lives his life like a beggar....thats equality or you......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslims_of_independent_India


Now can you proved a list of successful Hindus in Pakistan?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Su 30mki

oct605032048 said:


> The uigher population has been increased from 3.29million in 1949 to 8.29million in 2000 and i don't know why you call that a decline?
> The gradually change of composition of Xinjiang's population is due to the migration of people from neighbouring provinces for the reason that Xinjiang has long been emjoying a relatively high growth rate.(Also there are also uighur people migrated from Xinjiang to the eastern coastal area as well.)
> 
> 
> ÊÔÂÛ1949ÄêÒÔºóÐÂ½®ºº×åÒÆÃñµÄÀàÐÍÓë¹¦Ð§_ÐÂ½®²Î¿¼×ÉÑ¯
> 
> BTW do you agree or disagree with idea of Free-migration for people within your own country?



So you Mean to say that They Migrated from Xinjiang to other parts of china and HAN Chinese came from Other Part to Xinjiang , Why?

Why did Han Comes to same land where Uigher is migrating from? and why Uigher migrated from land which attracted Han population?


----------



## dabong1

gubbi said:


> So the reason why I posted the article is to draw your attention to the fact that despite all the grandiloquence of Muslim brotherhood espoused by many members here in relation to Indian Muslims (Kashmiris included), it all boils down to business and realpolitik when it come to affairs between countries. Religion has no place in it. Case in point - China & Pakistan.



Dont think so.......you indians with the help of a state govt killed muslim in there thousands.....you have pushed muslims in india to the lowest point on all social-economic indicators and the killing of muslims is going on full paced in kashmir.

Its all to do with justice..

Main ethnic division: 45&#37; Uighur, 40% Han Chinese

26 June: Mass factory brawl after dispute between Han Chinese and Uighurs in Guangdong, southern China, leaves two Uighurs dead

5 July: Uighur protest in Urumqi over the dispute turns violent,* leaving 156 dead - most of them thought to be Han - and more than 1,000 hurt*

7 July: Uighur women protest at arrests of menfolk. Han Chinese make armed counter-march
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Some mosques defy order to shut

*So you want us muslims to go around protesting against the chinese becauce 156 han chinese where killed and over a thousand hurt?*


----------



## quriosity

Su 30mki said:


> So you Mean to say that They Migrated from Xinjiang to other parts of china and HAN Chinese came from Other Part to Xinjiang , Why?
> 
> Why did Han Comes to same land where Uigher is migrating from? and why Uigher migrated from land which attracted Han population?



thats not the case... anyway... Hans are more educated in tech subjects... also they speak & write Chinese... another advantage... so they are more preferable... Uighurs on the contrary less educated in tech subjects like engineering, medicine.... also they dont speak and write Chinese... these are reasons to new factories and hospitals to get suitable employees... 

now if you go to America... & demand jobs when you only know Arabic for example... will you get job? .... perhaps you cant even get visa...


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> Dont think so.......you indians with the help of a state govt killed muslim in there thousands.....you have pushed muslims in india to the lowest point on all social-economic indicators and the killing of muslims is going on full paced in kashmir.



Do you have a link that gives the count of Muslims killed in Jammu and Kashmir ......
Here is what your so called mujahidins did in Kashmir...

Genocide in Kashmir

1. 400,000 Kashmiri Pandits, constituting 99% of the total population of Hindus living in Muslim majority area of the Kashmir Valley, were forcibly pushed out of the Valley by Muslim terrorists, trained in Pakistan, since the end of 1989. They have been forced to live the life of exiles in their own country, outside their homeland, by unleashing a systematic campaign of terror, murder, loot and arson.


2. Genocide of Kashmiri Pandits has reached its climax with Muslim terrorism succeeding in 'CLEANSING' the valley of this ancient ethno-religious community.

3. Educational Institutions burnt, damaged forcefully occupied : 105 

4. Religious & Cultural Institutions Destroyed/burnt, damaged : 103 

5. Shops, Factories looted/burnt/occupied : 14,430 

6. Agriculture dependent families deprived of their land and source of income : 20,000 

7. Horticulture dependent families deprived of their resource : 12,500 

8. Houses Burnt : more than 20,000

9. Houses looted : 95%

10. Torture killings of Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley : more than 1,100


----------



## Su 30mki

Kasrkin said:


> Pakistanis have always raised voices for Muslims around the world whenever their causes are justified. Be that in Kashmir, Palestine, Chechnya or a host of other states. India is no exception.
> 
> We fully condemn this violence and whoever perpetrated it. However we will not be making politically motivated, sweeping and unqualified comments like some of our Indian members are itching to do so.
> 
> Also remind yourselves that the decades long atrocities in Kashmir by Indian state services or even the Gujrat massacres are obviously way more outrageous, deadly and condemnable than anything thats happen in China recently. As is half a century long violent Israeli suppression of Palestinians or Russias brutal campaign against Chechens that leveled whole cities, etc. I can understand how a few of you are dying for some rhetorical payback for when we pointed out your own excesses in Kashmir and elsewhere, but the fact remains that Kashmir is _Disputed Territory_ militarily annexed by India therefore there are hardly any parallels. Even in the Indian mainland the atrocities against Muslims should give Indians reason for modestly and restrain when discussing this ugly episode in China, least you be branded hypocrites.



Hey Hey hey , when Hypocrites...lol ....... Who me Indians or you Pakistani ...... I think Hypocrites definition is changed??

*Starting Point*
*Gujarat :* train Burn by Muslims ; Hindu Crowd reacted back. Indian Admin Taken One Side .

China : 2 Uighurs Labour get Killed Uighurs, Rampaged Han Chinese , and HAN Chinese Reacted Back . Chinese Admin Taken One side.

PAK Reaction : Gujarat is condemn, but not Uighurs because they supply Military weapons and if we Critical, then they stop those things.

So Mr Who is Hypocrite?? You only choose to react which suits your need, I dont heard about Muslims reacting to Sudan Muslims done to non-Muslims their? Non


----------



## shravan

dabong1 said:


> you have pushed muslims in india to the lowest point on all social-economic indicators



My friends would highly disagree with you. 
-------

What about in Pakistan why are there so many suicide bombers, terrorists(Talibans), etc. ? 

*GOOD* Education plays a important role. I hope you are able to understand what i am trying to say.

----------------


----------



## oct605032048

&#8220;Uighurs were prevented from celebrating a traditional festival, banned from gathering in public and forced to learn Chinese, he said. &#8221;

if anyone, no matter what nationalaties he/she belongs to, can't speak chinese how could he find better jobs and earn a better life for hemself in china if he can't communicate with his co-workers? 
another example:
why you choose english instead of Hindo or Urdo or chinese to be the working languege in this forum?

i'm not a native english speaker but to do business with other country i have to learn english, that is just the same case.

if my uighur compatraits have to learn chinese, then it is 'the authority's plot to cleaning their culture'
else if they do not speak chinese, then they can't find good jobs and it becomes the authority's fault of discrimination.


----------



## dabong1

glomex said:


> These so called decade long Atrocities claimed by Pakistani media is the Indian response to insurgency just similar to Pakistani army's offensive in Swat and NWFP. ........ terrorists deserve to die.....and you may like to call them by the name of mujahidins/fidayins/talibanis but the fact is they are terrorists... Just because they are in Kashmir does not make them less bad..... they've got guns....they have got bombs and they kill ......so they deserve to be killed....
> 
> Why this hipocracy .....your army action against insurgents is called national duty....but India's action against similar insurgents is called cruality...brutality...atrocities...



Does pakistan go on about all the other freedom movements in india and theres plenty that want to split from india?........your indian army has killed tens of thousands and raped thousands which can not be compared to the ops in swat or in china.

Its really simple if the freedom fighters attack the indian army while terrorist attck innocent people.




glomex said:


> And if Kashmir is a disputed region then Pakistan has the other half of the disputed region....you tell me what has Pakistan done for Pakistan administered Kashmir apart from stationing your army over there.....there is a dummy government though...to fool the world...



I am from AJK and i can say first hand we are happy a lot happier then my cousins in IOK......the question should be what has pakistan not done for AJK.



glomex said:


> Gujarat incident was wrong and both communities were party to it.....do you know that Hindus got killed in the train burnt by Muslim mob....and in subsequent riots as well.....but i guess you simply can't see that.....they were not a right thing and entire country was against them...



What utter rubbish......your own govt says the train was not attcked but a fire broke out by accident and the hindus blamed the muslims.

I hope you can see that mumbai attackers where also right in the context you are talking about.....after all they where just a reaction to what the hindus did in gujrat.....after all "both communities were party to it".




glomex said:


> Regarding your claim that Muslims are ill treated in India......then let me tell you a Muslim has equal rights just like a Hindu....but you can't expect freebies if you don't have skills to earn a living..........if Muslim is educated and qualified he gets his due share of respect and money in India and a Hindu who is not educate lives his life like a beggar....thats equality or you......
> 
> List of Muslims of independent India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



There survey after survey that shows that the muslims of india are being forced to the bottom.....go google muslim in india.




glomex said:


> Now can you proved a list of successful Hindus in Pakistan?



First of all how many hindus are there in pakistan compared to muslims in india?


----------



## dabong1

shravan said:


> My friends would highly disagree with you.
> *GOOD* Education plays a important role. I hope you are able to understand what i am trying to say.




Have the lives of muslims improved over the last 60 odd years under india is the real question.
By all indicators it has got worse and worse over the decades in every area.
By Simon Denyer..take the armed forces of india.
NEW DELHI, Nov 6 (Reuters) - There are scarcely any Muslims working in India's 10,000-strong external intelligence agency, and neither Muslims nor Sikhs working as bodyguards for the country's top leaders, according to officials and media reports.

Mainly Hindu but officially secular India has its first Sikh prime minister, Manmohan Singh, but his community is not trusted enough to guard him, according to Outlook magazine this week.

The magazine said India's minority Muslims were not trusted by the security apparatus because of fears they could sympathise with the country's mainly Muslim neighbour and long-time foe Pakistan.

It said none had been recruited by the country's external spy agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), since 1969.

The domestic Intelligence Bureau (IB) had decided to recruit Muslims in the l990s, Outlook said, but the organisation still only had a "handful" of Muslim officers.

A government spokesman declined to comment on the report.

An intelligence official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Outlook was wrong to say there were no Muslims in RAW but right to say there were scarcely any.

Nor were there any working as bodyguards in the Special Protection Group (SPG) assigned to protecting current and former prime ministers and their families, he said.

"It is an unwritten rule in the SPG that they cannot recruit a Muslim or a Sikh," he told Reuters.

A.S. Dulat, who served as RAW chief from 1999 to 2000, said he did not recall coming across any Muslims in the organisation but could not confirm the Outlook report.

"If we do not have any Muslims obviously this is a handicap," he told Reuters. "If there are no Muslims, there must have been a reluctance to take them in. It is also not easy to find that many Muslims."

"NEED FOR MUSLIMS ACUTE"

Sikhs have not been used as bodyguards since Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her personal Sikh bodyguards in 1984 at the height of a Sikh insurgency, Outlook said.

Dulat said Sikhs had come "under a cloud" following Gandhi's murder, but found it hard to believe they would still be excluded from bodyguard duties today.

The status of India's estimated 140 million minority Muslims is the subject of intense debate.

Leaked excerpts of a specially commissioned report, due to be published this month, have shown Muslims are significantly underrepresented in government jobs and in the judiciary but overrepresented in the prison populations in many Indian states.

There are just 29,000 Muslims in India's 1.3-million strong armed forces, according to the defence ministry.

But Outlook magazine's report will also raise concerns about whether India's intelligence gathering will be effective without Muslim agents and officers.

"The need for Muslim officers in intelligence-gathering is acute," another former RAW chief, Girish Chandra Saxena, was quoted as saying. "There are very few people who have knowledge of Urdu or Arabic. The issue has to be addressed."

India is not alone in failing to recruit Muslims to the top levels of its security and intelligence apparatus.

America's Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) are still reportedly struggling to recruit Arabic, Urdu and Farsi speakers five years after the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States.

Sikhs constitute nearly two percent of India's 1.1 billion population and the army is currently headed by General J.J. Singh, a Sikh.

(Additional reporting by Y.P. Rajesh) 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prison is the only place where Muslims are over-represented

New Delhi, October 28: In sharp contrast to education and employment, where their share is way, way below their share of the population, Muslims have a disproportionately high representation when it comes to being in prison.

In fact, in many states, Muslims even make up a higher percentage of the population in jail than they do outside.

This statistic, a key finding of the Prime Minister-appointed Justice Rajinder Sachar committee  which is looking into the status of Muslims nationwide  has major social and political implications. Such a high figure of incarceration, experts say, means further marginalisation of the community, deepening prejudice and distrust.

While there is no break-up of the nature of the crime for which these inmates have been imprisoned, sources said the total number of inmates surveyed is 102,652 and a majority of them are not in for terrorism.

A dozen states with significant Muslim population shares were asked to furnish statistics on the number of Muslims in prison, convicted and under-trials. West Bengal, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Andhra Pradesh have not reported back to the committee on this so the data available is only for eight states that did.

Incidentally, West Bengal, UP and Bihar, as was first reported in The Indian Express this week, rank at the bottom when it comes to representation of Muslims in Government employment, including state public sector undertakings and the lower judiciary.

Data accessed by The Sunday Express shows that when it comes to Muslims in the prison population, Maharashtra, Gujarat and Kerala are the most disproportionate.

 In Maharashtra, the percentage of Muslim jail inmates in all categories (see chart) is way above their share in the population (Muslim share in population is 10.6%, share in the total prison inmates is 32.4%.

 When it comes to those in prison for less than a year, Muslims contribute 40.6% of all prisoners in Maharashtra.

 In Gujarat, the percentage of Muslims in the state is just 9.06% but they make up over a quarter of all jail inmates.

 Assam, the second highest Muslim populated state in the country, after J&K, has 30.9% Muslims, and here, the percentage of Muslim jail inmates is 28.1.

 Even Karnataka, which did relatively better than other states in providing jobs to Muslims, shows the same trend: 17.5% of its jail inmates are Muslim as compared with 12.23% of its population
Prison is the only place where Muslims are over-represented

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The data, accessed by The Indian Express, shows:

94.9 per cent of Muslims in Below Poverty Line (BPL) families in rural areas do not receive free foodgrains.

While only 3.2 per cent of Muslims get subsidised loans, just 1.9 per cent of the community benefit from the Antyodaya Anna Yojana Scheme, a programme meant to prevent starvation among the poorest of poor by providing food grains at a subsidised rate.

60.2 per cent of Muslims do not have any land in rural areas. National average: 43%

Just 2.1 per cent of Muslim farmers have tractors. With 15,25,000 tractors, India ranks No.4 after US, Japan and Italy

A mere 1 per cent own handpumps.

On the educational front, the picture is equally dismal: 54.6 per cent Muslims in villages and 60 per cent in urban areas have never attended schools. National average: 40.8 per cent in rural areas and 19.9 per cent in urban areas.

Only 0.8 per cent of Muslims in rural areas are graduates.

Although in urban areas, nearly 40 per cent of the Muslims now receive modern education, only 3.1 per cent of the community in urban areas are graduates. Just 1.2 per cent are post-graduates.

When contacted by The Indian Express, Justice Sachar said: These figures are based on what people and organisations told us when we met them in the states. But they need to be analysed before arriving at any final conclusion. The committee is yet to submit its report.

The committee also found shocking instances of discrimination against the community. These include cases of Muslims not getting loans from even nationalised banks and finding it difficult to sell or buy property.

There is an implicit diktat that loans should not be given in specific areas dominated by Muslims because of the high probability of default the committee observed after its visit to Rajasthan between August 22 and 24 last year.

The committee also found inadequate number of government schools in the Muslim-dominated areas contributing to the low number of Muslim boys and girls attending the schools.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------




shravan said:


> What about in Pakistan why are there so many suicide bombers, terrorists(Talibans), etc. ?



Can you tell why there so many indian separatist movements from kashmir,khalistan to Assam, Nagaland, Tripura, Meghalaya, Manipur, Mizoram and Arunachal Pradesh ect and why do they around bombing and killing people.


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> Does pakistan go on about all the other freedom movements in india and theres plenty that want to split from india?........your indian army has killed tens of thousands and raped thousands which can not be compared to the ops in swat or in china.
> 
> Its really simple if the freedom fighters attack the indian army while terrorist attck innocent people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am from AJK and i can say first hand we are happy a lot happier then my cousins in IOK......the question should be what has pakistan not done for AJK.
> 
> 
> 
> What utter rubbish......your own govt says the train was not attcked but a fire broke out by accident and the hindus blamed the muslims.
> 
> I hope you can see that mumbai attackers where also right in the context you are talking about.....after all they where just a reaction to what the hindus did in gujrat.....after all "both communities were party to it".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There survey after survey that shows that the muslims of india are being forced to the bottom.....go google muslim in india.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all how many hindus are there in pakistan compared to muslims in india?



*
Do you have links of those tens of thousands of news items that claim that India army raped and Killed tens of thousands of people in any part of the world?*

If these so called freedom fighters attack Army...what is army supposed to do.....enjoy the shower of bullets and let them go because Pakistan claims they re freedom fighters... Attack on army means they are at war with army and army should kill them...just like American and Pakistani army is killing Talibanis...

Your happiness is subjective....even a poor farmer is happy considering his mindset....


I gave you a list of Muslims in India who are successful...and similar list of Successful Hindus in India is also available......


----------



## oct605032048

Su 30mki said:


> So you Mean to say that They Migrated from Xinjiang to other parts of china and HAN Chinese came from Other Part to Xinjiang , Why?
> 
> Why did Han Comes to same land where Uigher is migrating from? and why Uigher migrated from land which attracted Han population?



there are people from NY city migrate to california and vise wersa&#12290;the case between New Dheli adn Membai and no comment on your intelligience.

still regards.


----------



## dabong1

glomex said:


> *
> Do you have links of those tens of thousands of news items that claim that India army raped and Killed tens of thousands of people in any part of the world?*



Yes



glomex said:


> If these so called freedom fighters attack Army...what is army supposed to do.....enjoy the shower of bullets and let them go because Pakistan claims they re freedom fighters... Attack on army means they are at war with army and army should kill them...just like American and Pakistani army is killing Talibanis...



Your a occupation army in kashmir just like the american in afganistan so its lawful and right for the freedom fighters to attck invading-occupation armies.



glomex said:


> Your happiness is subjective....even a poor farmer is happy considering his mindset....



Unless his an indian farmer under debt and he commits suicide......how many farmers in india have killed themselfs in the recent years?.....go google it.




glomex said:


> I gave you a list of Muslims in India who are successful...and similar list of Successful Hindus in India is also available......



Answer the simple qeustion i asked you......how many hindus are there in pakistan compared to muslims in india?


----------



## shravan

dabong1 said:


> Answer the simple qeustion i asked you......how many hindus are there in pakistan compared to muslims in india?



I think you should answer that.


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> Your a occupation army in kashmir just like the american in afganistan so its lawful and right for the freedom fighters to attck invading-occupation armies.



The Indian army came to Jammu and Kashmir not as army of invasion; rather they came on request of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir.

On 22 October 1947 some parts of the State were invaded by unruly tribal warriors, killing and pillaging on their way to Srinagar, the Maharaja's forces were not able to defend the State territory.
The Maharaja had two choices: either let these tribesmen run over the country and destroy everything or seek help from India - he chose the later.

The Maharaja could not have got help from the government of Pakistan as they betrayed his trust; and despite the Standstill Agreement with the Maharaja, they stopped all the necessary supplies to the State and managed the tribal invasion to punish the Maharaja for not yielding to the demands of the Pakistani rulers who wanted State's accession to Pakistan.

The Maharaja requested help from India, and signed an accession treaty on 26th October 1947, which was 'provisionally' accepted by the government of India. In line with the request of the Maharaja the Indian forces landed in Srinagar on 27th October 1947. Their primary purpose was to save the State from the invaders; and protect 'life', 'liberty' and 'property'.


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> Answer the simple qeustion i asked you......how many hindus are there in pakistan compared to muslims in india?



The increasing Islamisation of Pakistan and antagonism against a majority Hindu. Pakistan has forced many Hindus to leave Hinduism and convert to Islam[citation needed]. Such Islamisation include the blasphemy laws, which make it dangerous for religious minorities to express themselves freely and engage freely in religious and cultural activities. The promulgation of Sharia, Quranic law has also increased the marginalization of Hindus and other minorities. Following the destruction in 1992 of the Babri Mosque in India, riots and persecution of Hindus in retaliation has only increased; Hindus in Pakistan are routinely affected by communal incidents in India and violent developments on the Kashmir conflict between the two nations. It remains the hope of many that a permanent peace between the two nations will go a long way in making life better for the roughly 3 million Hindus living in Pakistan. The 1998 census recorded 2,443,614 Hindus in Pakistan. Reports from Pakistan indicate that Hindu minorities under Taliban rule in Swat are being forced to wear Red headgear such as turbans to make it easier for the Islamic militants to target them for discrimination. In light of these deprivations, Pakistani Hindu minorities have started fleeing to India.[


----------



## dabong1

glomex said:


> Do you have a link that gives the count of Muslims killed in Jammu and Kashmir ......



I you cant be bothered to check for facts and figures on the internet i am not going to waste my time for you.......go to the kashmir thread and you can have all the links you want.




glomex said:


> Here is what your so called mujahidins did in Kashmir...
> 
> Genocide in Kashmir
> 
> 1. 400,000 Kashmiri Pandits, constituting 99% of the total population of Hindus living in Muslim majority area of the Kashmir Valley, were forcibly pushed out of the Valley by Muslim terrorists, trained in Pakistan, since the end of 1989. They have been forced to live the life of exiles in their own country, outside their homeland, by unleashing a systematic campaign of terror, murder, loot and arson.
> 
> 
> 2. Genocide of Kashmiri Pandits has reached its climax with Muslim terrorism succeeding in 'CLEANSING' the valley of this ancient ethno-religious community.
> 
> 3. Educational Institutions burnt, damaged forcefully occupied : 105
> 
> 4. Religious & Cultural Institutions Destroyed/burnt, damaged : 103
> 
> 5. Shops, Factories looted/burnt/occupied : 14,430
> 
> 6. Agriculture dependent families deprived of their land and source of income : 20,000
> 
> 7. Horticulture dependent families deprived of their resource : 12,500
> 
> 8. Houses Burnt : more than 20,000
> 
> 9. Houses looted : 95%
> 
> 10. Torture killings of Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley : more than 1,100



Are you trying to compare the misrey of the hindu kashmiris to the muslims kashmiris?


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> Yes



Paste those links here....and please don't ask me to GOOGLE IT.........you made a claim so the onus of proving it lies on you......


----------



## dabong1

glomex said:


> The increasing Islamisation of Pakistan and antagonism against a majority Hindu. Pakistan has forced many Hindus to leave Hinduism and convert to Islam[citation needed]. Such Islamisation include the blasphemy laws, which make it dangerous for religious minorities to express themselves freely and engage freely in religious and cultural activities. The promulgation of Sharia, Quranic law has also increased the marginalization of Hindus and other minorities. Following the destruction in 1992 of the Babri Mosque in India, riots and persecution of Hindus in retaliation has only increased; Hindus in Pakistan are routinely affected by communal incidents in India and violent developments on the Kashmir conflict between the two nations. It remains the hope of many that a permanent peace between the two nations will go a long way in making life better for the roughly 3 million Hindus living in Pakistan. The 1998 census recorded 2,443,614 Hindus in Pakistan. Reports from Pakistan indicate that Hindu minorities under Taliban rule in Swat are being forced to wear Red headgear such as turbans to make it easier for the Islamic militants to target them for discrimination. In light of these deprivations, Pakistani Hindu minorities have started fleeing to India.[



So thats why pakistan had a hindu chief justice Rana Bhagwandas.......what are these pakistanis doing they even have a hindu in the cricket team Danish Kaneria.


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> I you cant be bothered to check for facts and figures on the internet i am not going to waste my time for you.......go to the kashmir thread and you can have all the links you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to compare the misrey of the hindu kashmiris to the muslims kashmiris?



You made a claim and you have to prove it...if you cant you lose the argument.......and you claim falls flat just like any other Pakistani claim.......if you know the location of links....then you are not wasting any time....just paste the link to that thread..

Yes if you want to talk about Kashmir..... Kashmir historically comprised of Hindus and Muslims.....why only talk about Muslims in Kashmir.....Hindus are also a part of Kashmir.....


You are claiming about Kashmir than why don't discuss Kashmir in totality...why leave Kashmir Hindus out of the discussion....


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> So thats why pakistan had a hindu chief justice Rana Bhagwandas.......what are these pakistanis doing they even have a hindu in the cricket team Danish Kaneria.



Just open this link and you will know the status onf Hindus in Pakistan.......

hindus in Pakistan - Google Search


----------



## dabong1

glomex said:


> Paste those links here....and please don't ask me to GOOGLE IT.........you made a claim so the onus of proving it lies on you......



Go the kashmir thread.......all the links you want and more.


----------



## dabong1

glomex said:


> You made a claim and you have to prove it...if you cant you lose the argument.......and you claim falls flat just like any other Pakistani claim.......if you know the location of links....then you are not wasting any time....just paste the link to that thread..
> 
> Yes if you want to talk about Kashmir..... Kashmir historically comprised of Hindus and Muslims.....why only talk about Muslims in Kashmir.....Hindus are also a part of Kashmir.....
> 
> 
> You are claiming about Kashmir than why don't discuss Kashmir in totality...why leave Kashmir Hindus out of the discussion....



As i said before lets go to the kashmir thread and debate it all you want.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...0220-future-kashmir-7-possible-solutions.html

Read the post from page 1 all the way through and then get back to me.


----------



## Speeder

Urumqi: criticism and credit for the Chinese police 
( By Peter Foster, DT reporter, Beijing)

For the first time since Sunday&#8217;s violence a sense of normality is returning to the streets here.

I went out this morning at 8am immediately after curfew was lifted and things were definitely feeling more relaxed &#8211; many more cars on the roads, people doing their tai-ji in the parks, women returning from the vegetable markets laden with fresh produce, even a few dog-walkers.

There is still a very visible police presence - helicopters circling overhead and massive convoys of armoured personnel carriers, water canons and trucks carrying paramilitary police winding slowly through the city as a constant reminder that the forces of law and order are ready to act at a moment&#8217;s notice.

A note on the performance of the Chinese police during this crisis: from what I&#8217;ve seen they have been highly disciplined and professional under extremely challenging circumstances and deserve real praise for this.

On the one hand, it could be argued that the police failed in the first instance. Certainly that is the view of many Han people we&#8217;ve spoken too who are deeply angry that Sunday&#8217;s killing was allowed to take place at all.

It seems that the police were taken completely by surprise. Having broken up the original demonstration around the People&#8217;s Square and the South Gate on Sunday night between 6pm and 8pm, they failed to anticipate the extreme violence that was unfolded along the side-streets after about 10.30pm.

Perhaps this was because Urumqi, unlike Kashgar, is generally felt to be a stable - I hesitate to use the &#8216;H&#8217; word (harmonious) - city where relations between Uighur and Han are nothing like as tense as in other parts of Xinjiang.

Then on Tuesday, the police appeared to get caught out a second time when, having focussed on locking down the Uighur areas, they seemed unprepared for the huge number of Han who took to the streets with their clubs and other weapons to show their anger over what they say was effectively an anti-Han pogrom carried out by thuggish Uighur elements on Sunday night.

These are fair criticisms, but equally the Chinese police and paramilitaries must be given huge credit for handling the situations that did arise.

On Tuesday they walked a fine line between confronting the Han protesters - keeping them separate from the Uighur community at a time when there was a real sense of blood lust in the air - and allowing them they chance to vent their legitimate anger and frustration.

In the event, the Han crowds on Tuesday effectively were allowed to go round and round in circles, exhausting themselves in the hot sun while never actually being allowed to reach the objects of their anger. To my mind, this was very smart policing.

Then on Wednesday, after an overwhelming show of force, the police made sure that the Han protestors largely stayed off the streets.

Similarly on Tuesday when a crowd of Uighur women and children of the Sai Ma Chang (Racetrack) district led a protest against the arrest of their men, the police contained the protest - showing force, but judiciously withdrawing a few hundred metres just at the moment when it looked as if things might get nasty.

I don&#8217;t claim to be an expert in riot control, but I have reported on mass protests in many different cities around the world - in the UK (football riots in London), in Africa (Harare and Lagos), in Pakistan (Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar) and in several cities in India - and I&#8217;m happy to say that China&#8217;s police have showed far greater professionalism, discipline and restraint than I&#8217;ve observed in many of those places.

Riots are feverish and unpredictable things and it only takes one nervous recruit to lash out (and if you look behind the visors, many of the Chinese police are pretty young) and suddenly a controlled situation can turn very nasty indeed.

All credit to the Chinese foot-soldiers, therefore, who have shown great professionalism and must be applauded for preventing any major further bloodshed after Sunday night.

They are neatly turned out, quiet and orderly when off-duty - for example, they don&#8217;t leave a trail of litter after chow-time like India&#8217;s police always did. These are small things but they do matter, since they set the tone.

If there is any criticism to be made, as outlined in the two points above, it should be directed at the commanders and officials who failed to anticipate events.

The next test for the police is how they handle the cases of the 1,400 arrested people, mostly Uighurs. The innocent must be returned unharmed to their families, while the guilty must be punished. Both sides, Uighur and Han, need to be satisfied by this process. It won&#8217;t be easy.

On that note, I shall shortly be departing for London on a summer break, but my colleague Malcolm Moore will be keeping you up date on China news with tweets and blogs from Shanghai and beyond.

For now, it&#8217;s &#8216;zaijian&#8217; from me.



Chinese translation:

&#33521;&#22269;&#27599;&#26085;&#30005;&#35759;&#25253;&#35760;&#32773;Peter Foster 2009&#24180;7&#26376;9&#26085;&#30340;&#21338;&#25991;&#65306;&#12298;&#32473;&#20013;&#22269;&#35686;&#21592;&#30340;&#25209;&#35780;&#21644;&#36190;&#35768;&#12299;

&#20044;&#40065;&#26408;&#40784; &#8211; &#33258;&#26143;&#26399;&#26085;&#39318;&#27425;&#21457;&#29983;&#26292;&#21147;&#20107;&#20214;&#20197;&#26469;&#65292;&#27491;&#24120;&#29983;&#27963;&#30340;&#24863;&#35273;&#31532;&#19968;&#27425;&#22238;&#21040;&#20102;&#36825;&#37324;&#30340;&#34903;&#36947;&#19978;&#12290;



&#20170;&#22825;&#26089;&#19978; 8 &#28857;&#38047;&#23477;&#31105;&#19968;&#32467;&#26463;&#65292;&#25105;&#23601;&#20986;&#38376;&#20102;&#12290;&#23616;&#21183;&#27627;&#26080;&#30097;&#38382;&#22320;&#24863;&#35273;&#36731;&#26494;&#22810;&#20102;&#8212;&#22312;&#36335;&#38754;&#34892;&#39542;&#30340;&#27773;&#36710;&#22810;&#20102;&#65292;&#26377;&#20154;&#22312;&#20844;&#22253;&#37324;&#25171;&#30528;&#22826;&#26497;&#25331;&#65292;&#22919;&#22899;&#20204;&#20174;&#33756;&#24066;&#22330;&#24102;&#30528;&#26032;&#40092;&#30340;&#20892;&#20135;&#21697;&#24402;&#26469;&#12290;&#25105;&#29978;&#33267;&#36824;&#30475;&#21040;&#20102;&#19968;&#20123;&#36955;&#29399;&#30340;&#20154;&#12290;



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(source: Daily Telegraph)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## glomex

dabong1 said:


> Go the kashmir thread.......all the links you want and more.



Those threads must be claims made by some one like you.......I want the news links pasted here...if you can't accept that you can't.....and accept your claims are just claims without proof....


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## oct605032048

Rebiya's fake evidence only fools herself
(chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2009-07-09 16:35
Comments(35) PrintMail

Rebiya's fake evidence only fools herself






Rebiya Kadeer, head of the separatist World Uygur Congress, displays a picture which she describes as "Chinese police crack down peaceful demonstrators in Urumqi, capital of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region" when interviewed by Qatar's Al-Jazeera Television. [Agencies]

However, the picture Rebiya Kadeer displayed is actually a news photo taken last month in Hubei province.






Rebiya's fake evidence only fools herself
Local residents confront armed policemen in the street outside Yonglong Hotel of Shishou City, Central China's Hubei Province, June 21, 2009. The death of a chef called Tu Yuangao sparked three days of civil unrest in Shishou city. Tu died after falling from a high building and the government said he committed suicide after investigation. [nfdaily.cn] 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20090709/0013729e4ad90bc040673c.jpg


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## dabong1

glomex said:


> The Indian army came to Jammu and Kashmir not as army of invasion; rather they came on request of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir.



And the people of kashmir requested the pak army come in stop the rape and kiling of muslim by the indian army.



glomex said:


> On 22 October 1947 some parts of the State were invaded by unruly tribal warriors, killing and pillaging on their way to Srinagar, the Maharaja's forces were not able to defend the State territory.
> The Maharaja had two choices: either let these tribesmen run over the country and destroy everything or seek help from India - he chose the later.



Thats indian distorted history......you came first into kashmir thinking nobody would find out but the kashmir found out and asked for help from pakistan.



glomex said:


> The Maharaja could not have got help from the government of Pakistan as they betrayed his trust; and despite the Standstill Agreement with the Maharaja, they stopped all the necessary supplies to the State and managed the tribal invasion to punish the Maharaja for not yielding to the demands of the Pakistani rulers who wanted State's accession to Pakistan.
> 
> The Maharaja requested help from India, and signed an accession treaty on 26th October 1947, which was 'provisionally' accepted by the government of India. In line with the request of the Maharaja the Indian forces landed in Srinagar on 27th October 1947. Their primary purpose was to save the State from the invaders; and protect 'life', 'liberty' and 'property'.



The right of the people to choose what they want is more important then some maharaja getting his dictatorial ways......you do belive in democracy dont you?


----------



## dabong1

glomex said:


> Those threads must be claims made by some one like you.......I want the news links pasted here...if you can't accept that you can't.....and accept your claims are just claims without proof....



What happened..? you went to the post and all the links are there but you dont want to accept it


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## glomex

dabong1 said:


> What happened..? you went to the post and all the links are there but you dont want to accept it



I could not locate the thread....

copy and paste the link here...


----------



## glomex

Sorry my mistake ... don't see your last post ......There are some 20 odd pages let me go through them/...


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> What happened..? you went to the post and all the links are there but you dont want to accept it



This is stupidity.......got no links in the first 5 pages and I guess other pages will also have nothing in them...as I said they are just discussions ....no news articles...no news links ...just claims......



If you have got those links paste them ...


This simply means all the claims made by you are false..not backed by any material proof.......


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## dabong1

glomex said:


> This is stupidity.......got no links in the first 5 pages and I guess other pages will also have nothing in them...as I said they are just discussions ....no news articles...no news links ...just claims......
> 
> 
> 
> If you have got those links paste them ...
> 
> 
> This simply means all the claims made by you are false..not backed by any material proof.......



Thousands lost in Kashmir mass graves | Amnesty International

Behind the Kashmir Conflict - Abuses in the Kashmir Valley (Human Rights Watch Report, July 1999)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/world/asia/06kashmir.html

The following statistics were compiled by Indian Army:[2]
* Number of civilians killed in Kashmir since 1988: 65,000 to 1,00,000 

Human rights violations by India

A 1996 Human Rights Watch report accuses the Indian military and Indian-government backed paramilitaries of "committ[ing] serious and widespread human rights violations in Kashmir."[52] One such alleged massacre occurred on January 6, 1993 in the town of Sopore. TIME Magazine described the incident as such: "In retaliation for the killing of one soldier, paramilitary forces rampaged through Sopore's market setting buildings ablaze and shooting bystanders. The Indian government pronounced the event 'unfortunate' and claimed that an ammunition dump had been hit by gunfire, setting off fires that killed most of the victims."[53] In addition to this, there have been claims of disappearances by the police or the army in Kashmir by several human rights organizations.[54][55]

Many human rights organizations such as Amnesty International and the Human Rights Watch (HRW) have condemned human rights abuses in Kashmir by Indians such as "extra-judicial executions", "disappearances", and torture;[56] the "Armed Forces Special Powers Act", which "provides impunity for human rights abuses and fuels cycles of violence. The Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) grants the military wide powers of arrest, the right to shoot to kill, and to occupy or destroy property in counterinsurgency operations. Indian officials claim that troops need such powers because the army is only deployed when national security is at serious risk from armed combatants. Such circumstances, they say, call for extraordinary measures." Human rights organizations have also asked Indian government to repeal[57] the Public Safety Act, since "a detainee may be held in administrative detention for a maximum of two years without a court order."[58]
Insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[video=google;-1166172407554220338]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1166172407554220338"[/video]

UN body calls for probe into Kashmir killings
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...for-probe-into-kashmir-killings_10089870.html

http://www.yespakistan.com/kashmir/humanrightsviolationsinkashmir.asp

Thres a few for you........has it changed your mind on kashmir?....no i didnt think so......now its time to roll out the excuses and blame pakistan.


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> Thousands lost in Kashmir mass graves | Amnesty International
> 
> Behind the Kashmir Conflict - Abuses in the Kashmir Valley (Human Rights Watch Report, July 1999)
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/world/asia/06kashmir.html
> 
> The following statistics were compiled by Indian Army:[2]
> * Number of civilians killed in Kashmir since 1988: 65,000 to 1,00,000
> 
> Human rights violations by India
> 
> A 1996 Human Rights Watch report accuses the Indian military and Indian-government backed paramilitaries of "committ[ing] serious and widespread human rights violations in Kashmir."[52] One such alleged massacre occurred on January 6, 1993 in the town of Sopore. TIME Magazine described the incident as such: "In retaliation for the killing of one soldier, paramilitary forces rampaged through Sopore's market setting buildings ablaze and shooting bystanders. The Indian government pronounced the event 'unfortunate' and claimed that an ammunition dump had been hit by gunfire, setting off fires that killed most of the victims."[53] In addition to this, there have been claims of disappearances by the police or the army in Kashmir by several human rights organizations.[54][55]
> 
> Many human rights organizations such as Amnesty International and the Human Rights Watch (HRW) have condemned human rights abuses in Kashmir by Indians such as "extra-judicial executions", "disappearances", and torture;[56] the "Armed Forces Special Powers Act", which "provides impunity for human rights abuses and fuels cycles of violence. The Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) grants the military wide powers of arrest, the right to shoot to kill, and to occupy or destroy property in counterinsurgency operations. Indian officials claim that troops need such powers because the army is only deployed when national security is at serious risk from armed combatants. Such circumstances, they say, call for extraordinary measures." Human rights organizations have also asked Indian government to repeal[57] the Public Safety Act, since "a detainee may be held in administrative detention for a maximum of two years without a court order."[58]
> Insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Islam Killing of Kashmir - Kashmir Muslims Human Rights Indian Army
> 
> UN body calls for probe into Kashmir killings
> UN body calls for probe into Kashmir killings
> 
> HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN KASHMIR
> 
> Thres a few for you........has it changed your mind on kashmir?....no i didnt think so......now its time to roll out the excuses and blame pakistan.




*Your claim was tens of thousands .....of rapes and Killings..........*


And this is what you have to prove your claim.......one more claim...by a NGO.....excellent work....


----------



## dabong1

glomex said:


> *Your claim was tens of thousands .....of rapes and Killings..........*
> 
> 
> And this is what you have to prove your claim.......one more claim...by a NGO.....excellent work....



The following statistics were compiled by Indian Army:[2]
* Number of civilians killed in Kashmir since 1988: 65,000 to 1,00,000 

Did you forget read what your army said


----------



## dabong1

glomex said:


> *Your claim was tens of thousands .....of rapes and Killings..........*
> 
> 
> And this is what you have to prove your claim.......one more claim...by a NGO.....excellent work....



Singh faces first crisis as Kashmir bomb kills 33

By Jeremy Copeland in Delhi

Monday, 24 May 2004
Just a day into his tenure as India's first non-Hindu Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh was faced with his first diplomatic test after a bomb attack killed at least 28 people in the disputed state of Kashmir.

Just one day into his tenure as India's first non-Hindu Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh was faced with his first diplomatic test after a bomb attack killed at least 33 people in the disputed state of Kashmir.

A landmine ripped apart a bus carrying border security forces and their families travelling for holidays. The remote-controlled devicedetonated as the bus passed along the national highway on its way from Srinagar to Jammu. The attack was the deadliest in Kashmir since India and Pakistan began a peace process late last year.

The blast took place near the Pir Panjal mountains, a favoured hideout for Islamic militants fighting Indian rule in Kashmir, where tens of thousands of people have died in 15 years of rebellion.

"There was a loud explosion which shook the earth. When I turned back, a bus was in flames," Mohammad Subhan, a porter, told reporters last night.

"We ran towards the bus. We could hear the cries of people. Some broke windows and jumped. We could only take them to nearby homes, but it was too late."

Police say 18 soldiers, 6 women, five male relatives and four children were killed.

"The bodies were charred beyond recognition, so it took time to identify them. It became difficult to even identify our own soldiers," said K. Srinivasan, the deputy inspector-general of the region's border security forces.

A leading Pakistan-based rebel group, Hizbul Mujahideen, which is seeking the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan, claimed responsibility for the blast.

"The attack was carried out to remember the martyrs of Hizbul Mujahideen," Hizbul spokesman Junaid-ul-Islam told reporters.

Indian police have killed two senior Hizbul leaders in gunbattles in the past month, as part of counter-insurgency operations in the Himalayan region.

Analysts said the timing of the attack was a coincidence and it would not affect the peace process.

"I think it should not," Uday Bhaskar of the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses in New Delhi told Reuters. "If Hizbul is claiming responsibility then the onus is on Pakistan to demonstrate its commitment to the peace process and its commitment to war against terrorism. It is a coincidence a new government has taken over and an attack has taken place."

*More than 65,000 people have been killed in the insurgency in Indian administered Kashmir that began in 1989.* The state is the only one in India that has a Muslim majority.

India has long accused Islamabad of funding and supporting separatist rebels in Kashmir, a charge that Pakistan denies.

India's new government, of which 67 ministers were sworn-in on Saturday, held its first meeting yesterday. The new Cabinet passed a resolution condemning the attack.

Mr Singh has promised to make finding a peaceful solution to the dispute over Kashmir a high priority for his government. Last night he strongly condemned the attack as "cowardly" and "senseless".

"I have learned with the deepest sorrow about the latest cowardly act of terrorists in Jammu and Kashmir.

"The persistence of this senseless violence in Jammu and Kashmir is yet another indication that terrorism continues to pose a grave threat to our nation's integrity and progress," he said in a statement.

"While we will continue to seek peaceful resolutions to all outstanding problems, there can be no compromise on our solemn resolve to deal with the menace of terrorism with firm determination."

The bombers struck the day after the Commonwealth agreed to readmit Pakistan. The group suspended Pakistan five years ago after a military coup led by the country's current president, General Pervez Musharraf. Pakistan was readmitted to the Commonwealth because of steps it has taken towards democracy and because of the role it has played in the US-led war on terror

Gen Musharraf and Mr Singh spoke for the first time yesterday, Pakistan's state-run APP news agency said. Gen Musharraf congratulated Mr Singh on his victory in a telephone conversation that lasted for 20 minutes.
Singh faces first crisis as Kashmir bomb kills 33 - Asia, World - The Independent

*More than 65,000 people have been killed in the insurgency in Indian administered Kashmir that began in 1989.*....did you get that bit or do have to increase the font size.


----------



## glomex

dabong1 said:


> The following statistics were compiled by Indian Army:[2]
> * Number of civilians killed in Kashmir since 1988: 65,000 to 1,00,000
> 
> Did you forget read what your army said



They also include Hindus ....not only Muslims......your claim ins About Muslim Kashmiris.......... very hyproctitical of you..just to prove me wrong you show me a figure that has Hindus casualties also... also includes people killed by terrorists...


Similar claims were made by LTTE in Sri Lanka...through doctors...inflating death and killings by Sri Lankan army...but yesterday the same doctor told media that they ware forced by LTTE to inflate the figures...to use it as propaganda against Srilanka..just like you are using these figures to spread ***** against India...


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## dabong1

Five Killed, 50 Injured in Kashmir Blast
More than a dozen militant groups have been fighting for Kashmir's independence from India or its merger with Pakistan since 1989. More than 65,000 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in the conflict.
FOXNews.com - Five Killed, 50 Injured in Kashmir Blast - U.S. &amp; World

Damn even fox news says theres "65,000 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in the conflict".......


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## dabong1

glomex said:


> They also include Hindus ....not only Muslims......your claim ins About Muslim Kashmiris.......... very hyproctitical of you..just to prove me wrong you show me a figure that has Hindus casualties also... also includes people killed by terrorists...
> 
> 
> Similar claims were made by LTTE in Sri Lanka...through doctors...inflating death and killings by Sri Lankan army...but yesterday the same doctor told media that they ware forced by LTTE to inflate the figures...to use it as propaganda against Srilanka..just like you are using these figures to spread ***** against India...



You wanted links and figures....you got them.
I hope you understand now why i did not want to waste time giving you links and proof as it i knew it would achieve nothing but lame excuses and denials.


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## glomex

dabong1 said:


> The following statistics were compiled by Indian Army:[2]
> * Number of civilians killed in Kashmir since 1988: 65,000 to 1,00,000
> 
> Did you forget read what your army said



You claim that* India army killed tens of thousands of Kashmiri Muslims.......*....now provide a proof for this....


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## afriend

Kasrkin said:


> Pakistanis have always raised voices for Muslims around the world whenever their causes are justified. Be that in Kashmir, Palestine, Chechnya or a host of other states. India is no exception.
> 
> We fully condemn this violence and whoever perpetrated it. However we will not be making politically motivated, sweeping and unqualified comments like some of our Indian members are itching to do so.



You are well justified in your statements, but past actions of many Pakistani members regarding the plight or the so called plight of Indian Muslims and their subsequent silence now raises the question and exposes the comments they made earlier where opportunistic and only from hate towards India and not love towards Islam. 



> Also remind yourselves that the decades long atrocities in Kashmir by Indian state services or even the Gujrat massacres are obviously way more outrageous, deadly and condemnable than anything thats happen in China recently. As is half a century long violent Israeli suppression of Palestinians or Russias brutal campaign against Chechens that leveled whole cities, etc. I can understand how a few of you are dying for some rhetorical payback for when we pointed out your own excesses in Kashmir and elsewhere, but the fact remains that Kashmir is _Disputed Territory_ militarily annexed by India therefore there are hardly any parallels. Even in the Indian mainland the atrocities against Muslims should give Indians reason for modestly and restrain when discussing this ugly episode in China, least you be branded hypocrites.



Well kaskrin, you have brought Kashmir to this debate, and you as a moderator shouldn't have posted something off topic here. Please note that the issues in India is not institutional, and any issues you stated is well documented and are for open scrutiny, unlike china. We have a majority who condemns any such atrocities, we have been doing so right from the beginning , and you can have evidence of that in this forum itself.

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## dabong1

glomex said:


> You claim that* India army killed tens of thousands of Kashmiri Muslims.......*....now provide a proof for this....



i cant be bothered.......you have had all the links and proof and now your acting childish.


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## glomex

dabong1 said:


> i cant be bothered.......you have had all the links and proof and now your acting childish.



Well your claim was " *Indian Army Killed tens of thousands of Muslims in Kashmir" *and you throw figures that Include Hindus and Muslims killed in Terrorist attack plus army activity at me.....

This proves you have no proof to validate your claim.......and also proves that all similar Pakistani claims of Indian army killing tens of thousands of Muslims in Kashmir are false and a propaganda to brainwash youth and push them into terrorism against India.


Argument closed.......

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## Su 30mki

dabong1 said:


> And the people of kashmir requested the pak army come in stop the rape and kiling of muslim by the indian army.


Oh where you read this? We cant help you if think Sun rise from West, Anyway its Written all over the world its PAK Army who invaded Kashmir.

I think Uighurs also Requesting Inviting Indian Army to stop Chinese Army from Raping and looting them and along with Tibet, ISnt so?




dabong1 said:


> Thats indian distorted history......you came first into kashmir thinking nobody would find out but the kashmir found out and asked for help from pakistan.



Oh Man , Read the History First, Not the Chinese History,




dabong1 said:


> The right of the people to choose what they want is more important then some maharaja getting his dictatorial ways......you do belive in democracy dont you?



Is that Right Applicable to Tibet or Uighurs? ?

What About Tibet which you Take from Guns ? Who decide their right? Mr. Dabong? Can u answer this?


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## Su 30mki

dabong1 said:


> i cant be bothered.......you have had all the links and proof and now your acting childish.



We cant change person who think he gets virgins if he blown up itself.....


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## notsuperstitious

> Damn even fox news says theres "65,000 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in the conflict".......



Indian army is there since 1947, how many of those 65000 over the 42 year period of 47 to 89? For those 65000 - Pakistani terrorists are responsible for most of them. *See the ease with which Musharraf was able to turn off the terrorist tap when he decided to do so* under US pressure but how much Pakistani army struggling to stop taliban for years?

And all those unnamed graves, please come over and claim your bodies, we don't know their names. But that doesn't happen, the 9 latest freedom fighters in mumbai morgue are still waiting.

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## Su 30mki

fateh71 said:


> Indian army is there since 1947, how many of those 65000 over the 42 year period of 47 to 89? For those 65000 - Pakistani terrorists are responsible for most of them. *See the ease with which Musharraf was able to turn off the terrorist tap when he decided to do so* under US pressure but how much Pakistani army struggling to stop taliban for years?
> 
> And all those unnamed graves, please come over and claim your bodies, we don't know their names. But that doesn't happen, the 9 latest freedom fighters in mumbai morgue are still waiting.



hey One is in Indian Jail Alive..


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## notsuperstitious

> Well kaskrin, you have brought Kashmir to this debate, and you as a moderator shouldn't have posted something off topic here. Please note that the issues in India is not institutional, and any issues you stated is well documented and are for open scrutiny, unlike china. We have a majority who condemns any such atrocities, we have been doing so right from the beginning , and you can have evidence of that in this forum itself.



Back to topic, well said afriend. Hypocricy would be if Indian posters did not acknowledge, condemn and reject such acts of violence in India themselves. We do, and equally consistently would condemn the CPC deciding who heads a religious body (like dalai lama, panchen lama etc) or CPC deciding at what age muslims can attend mosques or how long the sermon should last or to be head of state of Pakistan one should be muslim etc etc. Thats honest and self critical and 1000 times better than 'we must support china our weapon supplier and protector of JUD in UNSC no matter what happens'!

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## IceCold

fateh71 said:


> Back to topic, well said afriend. Hypocricy would be if Indian posters did not acknowledge, condemn and reject such acts of violence in India themselves. We do, and equally consistently would condemn the CPC deciding who heads a religious body (like dalai lama, panchen lama etc) or CPC deciding at what age muslims can attend mosques or how long the sermon should last or to be head of state of Pakistan one should be muslim etc etc. Thats honest and self critical and 1000 times better than *'we must support china our weapon supplier and protector of JUD in UNSC no matter what happens'*!



Thats Bull $hit and you know it. Where did JUD come in from, Pakistan itself banned the organization so no point there and as for the weapons supplier we can say the same between India and US these days. Hypocrisy at best. I still remember some of the Indian members here justifying what happened in Iraq jails under the US command. You wana indulge in a mudslinging context " How about it" but remember your hands ant clean either.


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## Munir

I hope free and fair elections in Kashmir will lead to peace beween Pakistan and India. I disagree with the violence in China but am not going to blaim cause I have no clue wha happened. I am not buying western propagande. China is one state (Taiwan included). I hope the people can have peace and equal rights. It is the Chinese government that is responsible so I do no going to join Indian flaming here. Let them first see what happens in their nations. And frankly, Pakistan is in the middle of its own war so telling other nations what to do is not their style...


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## ATS

*China Bans Mosque Meetings in Strife-Torn Region *​
URUMQI, China  Chinese authorities banned prayer gatherings at mosques here on Friday, the principal day of prayer for Muslims, as security officials tried to prevent further ethnic violence in the Xinjiang region. 

But local officials appeared to partly relax the ban on Friday afternoon, allowing shortened prayer services after hundreds of Uighur worshipers gathered outside at least two of Urumqis main mosques and pressed to be allowed inside, news agencies reported.

The security clampdown that followed Sundays deadly riots remained tight. A small group of about 40 Uighur men and women began a protestmarch after prayers ended Friday, but they were quickly blocked by police forces, The Associated Press reported. Officials later announced a curfew would be reimposed on the city Friday evening. The citys main bus station was filled with people trying to flee the unrest, news services said.

Meanwhile, in another large Xinjiang city, the ancient Silk Road oasis town of Kashgar, foreign journalists and other visitors were instructed to leave.

Strictly enforced security was clearly high on the governments agenda, and The Peoples Daily, the Communist Partys official newspaper, saidin an editorial Friday that to maintain social stability, we ne ed to isolate and crack down hard on a handful of people. The paper said those who masterminded, organized and committed serious violence during the riot should be targets.

At least 156 people were killed in three days of rioting and unrest that began Sunday in Urumqi, the regions capital. More than 1,000 were reported injured.

The Peoples Daily editorial echoed the remarks of President Hu Jintao, who cut short a visit to the Group of 8 summit meeting in Italy. In a statement issued along with the Communist Partys senior leaders, Mr. Hu called on the authorities to isolate and deal a blow to the small group who had a hand in the bloodshed.

Preserving and maintaining the overall stability of Xinjiang is currently the most urgent task, said Mr. Hu, according to a statement published by the official Chinese news agency.

The party chief of Urumqi, Li Zhi, offered even tougher words: To those who have committed crimes with cruel means, we will execute them.

The turmoil began at a southern Chinese shoe factory last month after Chinese workers, spurred by false accusations of rape, attacked Uighur co-workers, killing at least two. The governments failure to aggressively prosecute those involved in the brawl became a rallying cry for Uighur students in Urumqi, who organizedthe protest last Sunday that turned violent.

Uighurs, who are Turkic-speaking Muslims, form a minority in Urumqi, a city of 2.3 million that has been heavily settled by ethnic Han Chinese from other parts of China. The influx of so many outsiders and what many describe as Beijings heavy-handed rule have helped foment resentment among Uighurs.

Urumqi appeared to be settling into an uneasy calm, and the ban on Friday Prayers apparently was aimed at preventing large gatherings of Uighurs at the citys mosques.

It was not clear if similar prayer bans were in force elsewhere in Xinjiang on Friday.

As many as 20,000 troops from nearby regions had poured into Urumqi after the rioting began, forming cordons between ethnic Uighur neighborhoods and those dominated by Han Chinese, who had earlier gone on a revenge spree against Uighur residents.

Both Uighur and Han claim to be the predominant victims of the violence, but the government has declined to release a breakdown of the dead.

A nighttime curfew was in place in Urumqi, but shops began to reopen for the first time Thursday as thousands of anxious residents clogged the citys bus and train stations seeking to escape the city. As helicopters hovered overhead, military vans roamed the streets with loudspeakers blaring slogans like Maintain stability and Protect the people.

Since the turmoil began on Sunday, China has accused Rebiya Kadeer, an exiled Uighur leader, of fomenting the strife. Ms. Kadeer, who lives in Washington, has denied the charge.

But on Wednesday the government for the first time shifted some of the blame to the United States, which it accused of financing Ms. Kadeers organization, the World Uighur Congress, and other groups that advocate human rights and democracy for ethnic Uighurs in China. The accusation appeared in an article in the Peoples Daily.

In recent days Turkey, which has cultural and linguistic ties to Chinas Uighurs, has stepped into the fray. On Thursday the minister for trade and industry called for a boycott of Chinese goods to protest the crackdown in Xinjiang. If the country where we consume the goods does not respect human values, we should reconsider our values, said the minister, Nihat Ergun, according to the Anatolia news agency.

Edward Wong reported from Urumqi, Andrew Jacobs reported from Beijing. Mark McDonald contributed reporting from Hong Kong.


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## ATS

great to see how this thread is hijacked to bash India....
you clearly see how human right violations are happening in china yet no member condemns..... 
there's free press in india everything gets reported and victims get justice... 
who knows how muslims are killed by Chinese?? 
shame on pakistani member's, you've always used Islam for your benefit... 
If a woman commits suicide in J&K you refer quran, but if hundreds die in china you keep mum....
*SHAME ON YOU​*


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## salman nedian

Unfortunately we have some Muslims who are working for western interests like Taliban operating in Pakistan. Similarly if there is any wrong thing happening with the Muslims in China(with those who are innocent) than surely we expect Chinese government to take action against those ho committed crimes against Muslims. We have faith on Chinese judicial system unlike India. so we expect them to provide justice to people which is not the case with India.

We are Pakistani Muslims who have their relatives living in India. There were Pakistani nationals and their Indian relatives who were burned alive by Hindu fanatics. Did India provide Justice?


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## salman nedian

ATS said:


> great to see how this thread is hijacked to bash India....
> you clearly see how human right violations are happening in china yet no member condemns.....
> there's free press in india everything gets reported and victims get justice...
> who knows how muslims are killed by Chinese??
> shame on pakistani member's, you've always used Islam for your benefit...
> If a woman commits suicide in J&K you refer quran, but if hundreds die in china you keep mum....
> *SHAME ON YOU​*



Shame on those people who dont even leave their guests and burn them alive.


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## notsuperstitious

IceCold said:


> Thats Bull $hit and you know it. Where did JUD come in from, Pakistan itself banned the organization so no point there and as for the weapons supplier we can say the same between India and US these days. Hypocrisy at best. I still remember some of the Indian members here justifying what happened in Iraq jails under the US command. You wana indulge in a mudslinging context " How about it" but remember your hands ant clean either.



Islamabad: The UN Security Council's decision to ban the Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) as a global terrorist organisation had become possible only because China,* which had blocked three similar attempts, finally gave its nod for the UN resolution*, a media report yesterday said.

Gulfnews: China finally backs ban on Jamaat&#45;ud&#45;Dawa

I expect atleast Pakistanis to know this. BTW I admit India's hands are not clean, I'm just fed up though with people using religious glasses when convenient and practical when even higher powers like China are involved.

Yes I'm trying to make a point here, the old one with religion, terrorism, selective good terorists and bad ones etc etc etc... did you read the latest report about how LET is still thriving, I've decided to complain BEFORE the next Mumbai.


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## ATS

salman nedian said:


> Unfortunately we have some Muslims who are working for western interests like Taliban operating in Pakistan. Similarly if there is any wrong thing happening with the Muslims in China(with those who are innocent) than surely we expect Chinese government to take action against those ho committed crimes against Muslims. We have faith on Chinese judicial system unlike India. so we expect them to provide justice to people which is not the case with India.
> 
> We are Pakistani Muslims who have their relatives living in India. There were Pakistani nationals and their Indian relatives who were burned alive by Hindu fanatics. Did India provide Justice?



oh come on salman stop making fool of your self...



> We have faith on Chinese judicial system unlike India. so we expect them to provide justice to people which is not the case with India.


what chinese judicial system are you talking about?
press is restricted, who is gonna report against the brutal killings of muslims by chinese??
you get every news from J&K; reports of killings and every other incident that happens in J&K... 
what makes you think India can't restrict media in J&K?



> We are Pakistani Muslims who have their relatives living in India. There were Pakistani nationals and their Indian relatives who were burned alive by Hindu fanatics. Did India provide Justice?


Hypocrisy at its best
you compare one dead person to 150+killed and 1,000 injured?
please have some conscious, you've been contradicting your religion, stop behaving like a kafir.


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## Gabbar

@Distored 
Watch your moth Distorted ***hole. If you have something to say, say it in a logical sense. Dont degrade this thread with your low mentality posts.

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## gpit

Su 30mki said:


> China&#8217;s drive to develop Xinjiang&#8217;s resources has spurred an influx of migrants and bred resentment among Uighurs, who complain of discrimination and political and cultural repression. *Han Chinese now account for half the province&#8217;s 21 million population, from 7 percent in the 1953 census. *
> 
> &#8220;At school, we were never allowed to wear the traditional Uighur hat as the Chinese saw it as a threat to them if we showed our national identity,&#8221; said Haiyur, the Uighur exile. *Uighurs were prevented from celebrating a traditional festival, banned from gathering in public and forced to learn Chinese, he said. *
> *
> &#8220;Almost all the factories in Xinjiang are Chinese-owned,&#8221; Haiyur said. &#8220;Often you would find a big poster outside the factories saying &#8216;We don&#8217;t need ethnic minorities for this position.&#8217;&#8221; *
> 
> Riots Expose China?s Ethnic Divisions, Uneven Growth (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
> 
> Here goes your questions



Why should Chinese citizens be forbidden from moving freely within the territory of China? Aren&#8217;t you Indians crying foul for Hukou system, which allegedly restrict people&#8217;s movement? If it is not a bipolar disorder, what is that? 

*Apartheid will never work.* Instead ethnical integration with preservation of ethnical features is the solution. 

The Chinese, Han or non-Han, are driven by market demand. They go wherever there is profit. In 1950s, thanks to Western embargo, China was extremely lack in recourses. Then a big oil field was discovered in Xinjiang. I bet you not many Uighurs knew at that time what &#8220;petroleum&#8221; is, what value it has. If Han did not develop it, together with their Uighur brothers, everybody would be in a disadvantageous position. 

That&#8217;s simply the force of market.

BTW, you shouldn&#8217;t expect a similar &#8220;Operation All Clear&#8221; that ran in your NE area for ethnic cleansing to happen in Xinjiang to clean up Han. Even Uighurs in general know that without Han, Xinjiang&#8217;s economy would never be better off.

Education wise, in many autonomous regions in China, many primary and high schools are taught in local language. If the students like, they can voluntarily opt for &#8221;&#27665;&#36716;&#27721;&#8221;, I believe it means &#8220;minority to Han&#8221;, after primary school to start learning Mandarin for better opportunities that the bigger society can offer. Otherwise, they can opt to stay with the school with their own language and ethnic people. It is just like so many Hans and other ethnics learning English at home and abroad for a possible better future the whole world can offer.

No question that there are problems between different ethnics. There are even hosts of problems, for instance income disparity, social injustice, within only Han, how would you expect no problems between different ethnics? Isn&#8217;t that a ridiculous expectation?

Problems like brain drain and cultural influence, etc., in addition to historical and geological issues, cause minority areas relatively backward. For instance, many minority people get succeeded in-land, don&#8217;t want to go back to their poor hometown, causing those places even worse in disparity with other more developed areas.

There are a lot preferential policies for ethnic minority stipulated by Chinese government in an attempt to promote minorities. I feel some of the positive discrimination may actually yield negative results. 

For you, the bottom line is: pathetic is the synonym of being brainwashed by a few sentences of one-sided story.

BTW, hope India can set a good example to reduce its domestic violence so you can have a bigger mouth calling China to learn some from you.


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## salman nedian

ATS said:


> Hypocrisy at its best
> you compare one dead person to 150+killed and 1,000 injured?
> please have some conscious, you've been contradicting your religion, stop behaving like a kafir.



India was involved in three wars with the Biggest Islamic nation of the world and had their involvement in the disintegration of Pakistan. Tell me if China has past record like this? There is a difference between China and India. China has never been hostile towards Muslims like India.

You also are seeing that 150 killed but you cant see that China has helped 175 million Muslims.


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## salman nedian

ATS said:


> what Islamic nation are you talking about?? Pakistan ??
> lol dude all pakistan till day has done is to use Islam to their benefit..
> you can check History.. even in swat you let taliban continue killings of innocent muslims and waited for US to fund you.. tell me was it not possible for PA to launch a offensive and not sign a peace deal??...
> human bombs, kids handling Kalashnikov instead of books, major terror network all under name of islam??
> killing of innocent people just to endorse your belief?
> pakistan thoroughly fits the tag of KAFIR



just provide me the proof if China has ever atacked any Muslim Nation.


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## ATS

salman nedian said:


> just provide me the proof if China has ever atacked any Muslim Nation.



why are you blowing the same horn again and again
remove your hate glasses and read the post again...
please stop calling yourself an muslim nation... 
check history most muslims died because of pakistani misadventure under the name of islam.. and in fact in pakistan itself.....
please read quran again.. It'll show you mirror...


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## salman nedian

ATS said:


> why are you blowing the same horn again and again
> remove your hate glasses and read the post again...
> please stop calling yourself an muslim nation...
> check history most muslims died because of pakistani misadventure under the name of islam.. and in fact in pakistan itself.....
> please read quran again.. It'll show you mirror...



What does it mean by a Muslim Nation? A Muslim Nation is the one where Muslims are in majority. How can you say that Pakistan is not a Muslim country? And how can you deny that India has been involved in a war with a Muslim Nation?


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## Gabbar

*Stick to topic people. Is it so hard to have a discussion on the thread topic. If yes, maybe mods should close this thread.*

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## salman nedian

ATS said:


> muslim= english
> musalman= musallam Imaan
> musallam= complete
> Imaan= Faith
> aur joh apne Iman ko bechte hain woh musalman nahi kafir kehlata hain miya...
> reading pages of quran and praying 5 times a day doesn't makes you a muslim...
> believe it or not sharia and teachings in quran draw to a simple conclusion "Happiness"...
> but you kafir have moulded values of allah to evil beliefs...



Allah is the best Judger. I don&#8217;t need your certificate for my being a Muslim.

What will be your comments when I call India not a secular country?


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## ATS

salman nedian said:


> Allah is the best Judger. I dont need your certificate for my being a Muslim.



of course you do... had you guys been true muslim, you would have been posting rational comments and accepted truth... 
you can read all the post's in this forum, the fact that you guys tag "terrorists as muslim" itself contradicts your identity...

*a humble request to mods... please stop referring terrorists as muslims *


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## s90

I dont get it man why should we condemn the Chinese for being anti muslim?whn the riots started Han Chinese were attacked not muslims!

And pictures and videos whc we are seeing of international media tells most of the dead were not muslims....so something else is happening their!


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## salman nedian

ATS said:


> of course you do... had you guys been true muslim, you would have been posting rational comments and accepted truth...
> you can read all the post's in this forum, the fact that you guys tag "terrorists as muslim" itself contradicts your identity...
> 
> *a humble request to mods... please stop referring terrorists as muslims *



I do not think that freedom fighters are terrorists. And I have raised few logical points to differentiate India and China.


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## ATS

salman nedian said:


> What will be your comments when I call India not a secular country?



of course its not secular but you can't call it a hindu state either...
but India is on right path and will soon be completely secular... 
the fact that they chose manmohan_ji_  as PM again, shows hindus too are on right path.


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## PeaceForAll

Muslim states silent on uighur... why? Because

a) There is no news media that goes about ranting and raving about "grave injustice" done to the whole community (In India, if one person is slapped, and if at all he happens to be a dalit/lower caste, the whole media rushes to the rescue.. calling it "attack against a dalit"!! even when the intention was never to hit the man because of his "dalit" caste)

b) China has no religious freedom. or very little of it. Muslims or Christians or Hindus, all the same for them hence the "equality" tag. so how can there be oppression? they have been put down, killed or stopped from protesting just like Tibetten Buddhist monks. And the reason? "they are against state of China"
so Tibettans and Uighurs are not chinese??

c) Internal problems are there in every country. And China definitely knows how to deal with it. All the people hope is that they deal with it justly and with human rights in mind so the losses are minimal.

d) The same argument holds good everywhere - Balochistan, Gujrat, Uighur regions as long as it is completely within the state (undisputed territory) its their internal problem.

e) Pakistan Muslims in this thread are alleged to have "used Islam" to their benefit! I would take that as a good news because they have put the "state of Pakistan" above "Islam" which augurs well for any nation.

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## afriend

gpit said:


> Why should Chinese citizens be forbidden from moving freely within the territory of China? Arent you Indians crying foul for Hukou system, which allegedly restrict peoples movement? If it is not a bipolar disorder, what is that?
> 
> *Apartheid will never work.* Instead ethnical integration with preservation of ethnical features is the solution.
> 
> The Chinese, Han or non-Han, are driven by market demand. They go wherever there is profit. In 1950s, thanks to Western embargo, China was extremely lack in recourses. Then a big oil field was discovered in Xinjiang. I bet you not many Uighurs knew at that time what petroleum is, what value it has. If Han did not develop it, together with their Uighur brothers, everybody would be in a disadvantageous position.
> 
> Thats simply the force of market.
> 
> BTW, you shouldnt expect a similar Operation All Clear that ran in your NE area for ethnic cleansing to happen in Xinjiang to clean up Han. Even Uighurs in general know that without Han, Xinjiangs economy would never be better off.
> 
> Education wise, in many autonomous regions in China, many primary and high schools are taught in local language. If the students like, they can voluntarily opt for &#27665;&#36716;&#27721;, I believe it means minority to Han, after primary school to start learning Mandarin for better opportunities that the bigger society can offer. Otherwise, they can opt to stay with the school with their own language and ethnic people. It is just like so many Hans and other ethnics learning English at home and abroad for a possible better future the whole world can offer.
> 
> No question that there are problems between different ethnics. There are even hosts of problems, for instance income disparity, social injustice, within only Han, how would you expect no problems between different ethnics? Isnt that a ridiculous expectation?
> 
> Problems like brain drain and cultural influence, etc., in addition to historical and geological issues, cause minority areas relatively backward. For instance, many minority people get succeeded in-land, dont want to go back to their poor hometown, causing those places even worse in disparity with other more developed areas.
> 
> There are a lot preferential policies for ethnic minority stipulated by Chinese government in an attempt to promote minorities. I feel some of the positive discrimination may actually yield negative results.
> 
> For you, the bottom line is: pathetic is the synonym of being brainwashed by a few sentences of one-sided story.
> 
> BTW, hope India can set a good example to reduce its domestic violence so you can have a bigger mouth calling China to learn some from you.



Hey,I know ecnomics is good, but the issue is that how you distribute the economy. If you go to somebodies home and tell them that your house will have to look like in a certain way, no matter how good it is, without the consent of the person, it always remain illegal. The way you try to achieve MONETARY GAINS or economic development for all is not right according me, it should include the peoples asipration, and i read in one of the post above, ethinic minorities are not welcome, i dont know how inclusive is your development. The thing is if you want ecnomic devlopment you got to give the ethinic population the right to participate in that.


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## mudassar86

well as i am new to pakistan defence forum but i have read too much now i thing i should use my head. the region in which muslims are trying to get there rights is autonoums region of china and as pakistani long live china-pakistan freindship it is not only on basis of religion it. now when people talk of the freedom, they want freedom from what the terrotory, rules and laws or what. if there is some problem with muslims in china it is our responsibilty as muslims to help china to get control of them. because if in pakistan there is no problem to non-muslims similarly. like wise muslims have no problem in china. now who are supporting muslims in china west whhich it self is cruising on muslims of iraq,afghanistan now come on be serious we are talking about the country which is going to be worlds biggest economy of world. so i would like my chineese brother to sit down and talk not to fight with some one what you wil get after fighting. in the end i would say i am a strong supporter of **** china freindship.

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## gpit

afriend said:


> Hey,I know ecnomics is good, but the issue is that how you distribute the economy. If you go to somebodies home and tell them that your house will have to look like in a certain way, no matter how good it is, without the consent of the person, it always remain illegal. The way you try to achieve MONETARY GAINS or economic development for all is not right according me, it should include the peoples asipration, and i read in one of the post above, ethinic minorities are not welcome, i dont know how inclusive is your development. The thing is if you want ecnomic devlopment you got to give the ethinic population the right to participate in that.



How hilarious!

Dare you say Xinjiang is not a home to Han and other 45 ethnics other than Uighur?

If you learn the history, Han had entered and settled down in Xinjiang with other ethnics *centuries before *Uighur was formed as an ethnic, and Han stays there with other ethnic groups, albeit smaller in number compared with Uighur.

Whose home is Xinjiang to? It&#8217;s the home to all Chinese ethnics living there for centuries!

It&#8217;s about social equality that people have to address here, not &#8220;whose home&#8221; type of foolish and sinister stuff.

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## IceCold

fateh71 said:


> Islamabad: The UN Security Council's decision to ban the Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) as a global terrorist organisation had become possible only because China,* which had blocked three similar attempts, finally gave its nod for the UN resolution*, a media report yesterday said.
> 
> Gulfnews: China finally backs ban on Jamaat-ud-Dawa
> 
> I expect atleast Pakistanis to know this. BTW I admit India's hands are not clean, I'm just fed up though with people using religious glasses when convenient and practical when even higher powers like China are involved.
> 
> Yes I'm trying to make a point here, the old one with religion, terrorism, selective good terorists and bad ones etc etc etc... did you read the latest report about how LET is still thriving, I've decided to complain BEFORE the next Mumbai.



Ohh come on! a few months ago you Indians were happily harping over the fact that the Chinese did not backed Pakistan over the UN and a similar thread has been posted on the very forum and then suddenly the Chinese become the bad guys.
And more over i am still trying to figure out the connection between the JUD with whats going on in China. What are you trying to establish here? 

And if you really want to complain, then do so infront of your sarkar who failed to provide security to the India citizens, if you wana complain, complain to your navy who claims to be a blue water navy yet failed to even detect a boat that was in the Indian waters for who knows how many days. But this is a forum and not some complain center for your complains so stop whining.

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## IceCold

ATS said:


> so people blowing themselves on roads of pakistan are freedom fighters seeking freedom from pakistan....
> thanks for proving my point that you are an true KAFIR



Will you quit trolling and derailing the thread. Already we have enough from your kind.


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## skeptic9

This event sounds like a classic CIA op and _maybe_ some Islamic elements from surrounding countries were involved too.


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## Omar1984

I wish you all would stop being sympathetic for Uighurs. This is not about religion, its about an *ETHNIC GROUP*. 

We can learn something from our Chinese friends because we are going through a very similar situation in Balochistan. Both Xinjiang and Balochistan are non-disputed territories, both are recognized by the UN as part of China and Pakistan respectively. Baloch are killing Punjabis in Balochistan and Uighurs are killing Hans in Xinjiang.

Why cant we as Pakistani citizens live and work in any place in Pakistan as we chose to (thats recognized by the UN as part of Pakistan), the same thing is true with Chinese...they have a right to live and work anywhere they want in China.

Dont fall in the trap of Indians, they were never happy about Pakistan and China's friendship.

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## DarkStar

quriosity said:


> thats not the case... anyway... Hans are more educated in tech subjects... also they speak & write Chinese... another advantage... so they are more preferable... Uighurs on the contrary less educated in tech subjects like engineering, medicine.... also they dont speak and write Chinese... these are reasons to new factories and hospitals to get suitable employees...
> 
> now if you go to America... & demand jobs when you only know Arabic for example... will you get job? .... perhaps you cant even get visa...



There's one big fallacy with your line of argument.

The Uighurs did not leave their homeland go to any other country to demand jobs. Their own language has been made obsolete in their own homeland. If technical subjects like engineering and medicine can be translated into chinese (a pretty weird sounding language to me), why can they not translate them into the Uighur tongue, which is turkic in origin, so there's a lot of material that can be used.

Now it's the fault of the Uighurs that they are not educated enough...Sounds like what Bhartis claim about muslims in Bharat...while the truth about the State's criminal neglect of a minority is shut out.


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## DarkStar

oct605032048 said:


> there are people from NY city migrate to california and vise wersa&#12290;the case between New Dheli adn Membai and no comment on your intelligience.
> 
> still regards.



That migration is not a State Sponsored scheme to dilute the demographics of a whole people,a nd their claim on their homeland.

That would be akin to northern/eastern liberal American states bussing liberal democrats to southern states, and encouraged to settle there, in order to win elections in unwinnable southern states.

Maybe the Japanese should have tried this in Manchuria.


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## PAFAce

The more I'm learning about the China-Uighur conflict, the more it worries me. In particular, I was reading the news below, about statements made by one of our greatest allies (Turkey) about another ally's (China) treatment of Turkic Uighurs. There is a small Uighur community within Pakistan as well. It begs the question, what would be the best possible Pakistani response to this situation? I would opt for silence, obviously, since we don't want to aggravate either ally, but if you read about the Uighur issues, it seems that silence, though convenient, may not be very ethical. Particularly if we consider our views on the Chechnya issue.

What do you guys think?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*Turkey attacks China 'genocide'*

Turkey's prime minister has described ethnic violence in China's Xinjiang region as "a kind of genocide".

"There is no other way of commenting on this event," Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

He spoke after a night-time curfew was reimposed in Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, where Muslim Uighurs and Han Chinese clashed last Sunday.

The death toll from the violence there has now risen from 156 to 184, China's state-run Xinhua news agency reports. More than 1,000 people were injured.

Turkey, a predominantly Muslim country, shares linguistic and religious links with the Uighurs in China's western-most region.
Quentin Sommerville, BBC News, Urumqi After Friday's prayers, a small group of Uighur Muslims marched along an Urumqi street demanding the release of men detained for their alleged role in last Sunday's riot.

A large number of riot police surrounded the group, they punched and kicked the protestors - one officer used his baton to beat one of the Uighurs. A number of foreign journalists had their equipment seized, some have been detained.

Earlier the group said they feared for their safety. There's no word from the authorities as to what happened to them.

"The event taking place in China is a kind of genocide," Mr Erdogan told reporters in Turkey's capital, Ankara.

"There are atrocities there, hundreds of people have been killed and 1,000 hurt. We have difficulty understanding how China's leadership can remain a spectator in the face of these events."

The Turkish premier also urged Beijing to "address the question of human rights and do what is necessary to prosecute the guilty".

Mr Erdogan's comments came a day after Turkish Trade and Industry Minister Nihat Ergun urged Turks to boycott Chinese goods.

Beijing has so far not publicly commented on Mr Erdogan's criticism.

But it said that of the 184 people who died, 137 were Han Chinese.

Uighurs defiant

Earlier on Friday, the Chinese authorities reimposed a night-time curfew in Urumqi.

The curfew had been suspended for two days after officials said they had the city under control.

Mosques in the city were ordered to remain closed on Friday and notices were posted instructing people to stay at home to worship.

XINJIANG: ETHNIC UNREST
# Main ethnic division: 45&#37; Uighur, 40% Han Chinese
# 26 June: Mass factory brawl after dispute between Han Chinese and Uighurs in Guangdong, southern China, leaves two Uighurs dead
# 5 July: Uighur protest in Urumqi over the dispute turns violent, leaving 156 dead - most of them thought to be Han - and more than 1,000 hurt
# 7 July: Uighur women protest at arrests of menfolk. Han Chinese make armed counter-march
# 8 July: President Hu Jintao returns from G8 summit to tackle crisis
#

But at least two opened after crowds of Uighurs gathered outside and demanded to be allowed in to pray on the holiest day of the week in Islam.

"We decided to open the mosque because so many people had gathered. We did not want an incident," a policeman outside the White Mosque in a Uighur neighbourhood told the AP news agency.

After the prayers, riot police punched and kicked a small group of Uighurs protesters, who demanded the release of men detained after last Sunday's violence, the BBC's Quentin Sommerville says.

Meanwhile, the city's main bus station was reported to be crowded with people trying to escape the unrest.

Extra bus services had been laid on and touts were charging up to five times the normal face price for tickets, AFP news agency said.

"It is just too risky to stay here. We are scared of the violence," a 23-year-old construction worker from central China said.

The violence began on Sunday when a Uighur rally to protest against a deadly brawl between Uighurs and Han Chinese several weeks ago in a toy factory in southern Guangdong province turned violent.

Tensions have been growing in Xinjiang for many years, as Han migrants have poured into the region, where the Uighur minority is concentrated.

Many Uighurs feel economic growth has bypassed them and complain of discrimination and diminished opportunities.

Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Turkey attacks China 'genocide'

Published: 2009/07/10 19:23:10 GMT

&#169; BBC MMIX
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please, all views are welcome, but be reasonable.

Brief information sources:
Uyghur
East Turkestan independence movement
Han Chinese

*Edit*
Oops, I just realized that the title of this thread may offend some. Moderators, please, can it be changed to "Han Chinese-Uighur Conflict - Pakistan's Response"?

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## A1Kaid

Patriot said:


> *We can criticize CCP but A1Kaid are you suggestng Xinjiang does not belong to China?China got Xinjiang several decades ago.*If any Pakistani brother support Free East Turkistan Movement (which is a terrorist movement )then it means he also support Free Balochistan and Free Pakhtunistan Movement and Taliban/AQ Terrorism.






> "China got Xinjiang several decades ago." -Patriot



Now the question is how did China acquire "Xinjiang" which means "New Territory" or "New Frontier"? How did China acquire how did China get a hold of this Turkic-Muslim land of East Turkistan. The answer can be traced backed to 1946 when the Chinese PLA pursuing it's national expansionist policy under Mao Zedong invaded the independent East Turkistan nation, defeated the Turkic forces their, sacked the National assembly, and occupied the land.




> "If any Pakistani brother support Free East Turkistan Movement (which is a terrorist movement )then it means he also support Free Balochistan and Free Pakhtunistan Movement and Taliban/AQ Terrorism."-Patriot



Nobody is encouraging terrorism, but what is absurd is that you have associated East Turkistan liberation and independence movement with terrorism, such a reductionist mindset is wrong to have. It is not the case I assure you, many Uyghurs are peaceful people but wish to fight for their independence.

Moving onto more serious ideas and thinking.


Now here is a challenge for my fellow Muslim-Pakistanis.

Suppose China was just as much of an enemy to Pakistan as India. I guarantee you, I repeat I guarantee you, you Pakistanis currently in favor of Chinese control of East Turkistan would call for and espouse East Turkistan freedom and independence.

Why the sudden change? It is because you people are hypocritical when it comes to your values and principals and to the extent of your character and religion. Some will argue it is more pragmatic for Pakistanis to shy away from this issue because Chinese is Pakistan's biggest ally, and believe me I understand. But "pragmatism", well how convenient for you to allow pragmatism undermine your principals and values you lose your moral high ground.

If China is our great friend then they ought to respect the concerns of Muslim Pakistanis who disagree with them on "Xinjiang", when true friends have issues they should resolve them.



Why don't you people just look at the world view. *Muslim lands are occupied!*


Why don't you Muslims see the bigger picture, why do you say it's none of my concern because this is happening to Turkic Muslims and not Pakistani Muslims? 

*The Muhammad Rasulullah SAW once said "Those who do not concern themselves with the affairs of Muslims are not of them." * MashAllah. (accurate translation)


Whether it be

The Arab-Muslim affair of Palestine 
The Caucus-Muslim affair of Chechyna
The Turkic-Muslim affairs of Cyprus, Nagorno Karabakh, and East Turkistan
The Pakistani-Muslim affair of Kashmir

You as Muslims must concern yourselves of Muslim affairs or you are not of the Muslims as the Prophet beautifully said.

The fact is Uyghurs are Turkic Muslims and they are living under Kaffir rule and face oppression it is no different than any other Muslim affair around the world!

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## A1Kaid

You people are too busy about what is considered and what is not considered disputed territory or non-disputed territory by the UN or the other international forums controlled by the West and it's international banking institutions.

Why have you followed the wrong path that leads to further damnation of the Muslim state and health? Because you are fools.

Their is a Quranic mandate that is superior to all man-made and human declarations to defend and fight for the Muslim state. If you do not understand these basic tenets of Islam then who are you really and what is your path?


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## DarkStar

Personally, I feel sometimes it is only a friend that can tell another friend a harsh truth, that one does not want to hear.

What better friend than Pakistan to do so?

But we are a Nation indebted to others, whether USA, China or Saudi/Gulf. How many years did it take us to raise the issue of child camel jockeys? Even then it was raised by Ansar Burney in a private capacity.

East Turkestan has as much right to freedom as Kashmir, even more so.

We can, in all civlity, agree to disagree with the Chinese regarding this issue. Yet do we have the mettle for it? Probably NOT.

We should, however, put the Turkish criticism in context. When was the last time that we heard Turkey speaking about atrocities of the Bharati forces in Kashmir? I certainly haven't.

Turks, even the JamateIslami inspired govt., are ultra nationalists and always speak up for other turks, or those they perceive to be so. The Uighurs are Turks, and the area they inhabit today Xinjiang/East Turkestan forms part of the original homeland of the Turks, so their outburst must be seen through the paradigm of their national consciousness 

They are no bleeding hearts.

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## wtf

I agree. The official position from all the governments, Pakistan, India and USA is going to be absolute silence. 

Russia has said "internal issue" so neither is Kazakhstan/Kyrgyzstan going to say anything. If anyone (other than Turkey) is going to comment it is going to be from Europe. I am guessing you might hear from Germany or France. They seem to somehow get away with speaking their minds on almost all issues around the world (Or don't care about consequences).


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## PAFAce

DarkStar said:


> Personally, I feel sometimes it is only a friend that can tell another friend a harsh truth, that one does not want to hear.
> 
> What better friend than Pakistan to do so?
> 
> But we are a Nation indebted to others, whether USA, China or Saudi/Gulf. How many years did it take us to raise the issue of child camel jockeys? Even then it was raised by Ansar Burney in a private capacity.
> 
> East Turkestan has as much right to freedom as Kashmir, even more so.
> 
> We can, in all civlity, agree to disagree with the Chinese regarding this issue. Yet do we have the mettle for it? Probably NOT.
> 
> We should, however, put the Turkish criticism in context. When was the last time that we heard Turkey speaking about atrocities of the Bharati forces in Kashmir? I certainly haven't.
> 
> Turks, even the JamateIslami inspired govt., are ultra nationalists and always speak up for other turks, or those they perceive to be so. The Uighurs are Turks, and the area they inhabit today Xinjiang/East Turkestan forms part of the original homeland of the Turks, so their outburst must be seen through the paradigm of their national consciousness
> 
> They are no bleeding hearts.


Thank you DarkStar, this is exactly what I was hoping for, an intelligent debate. Were you aware that I was recently accused of being a CIA/RAW agent on these forums? Yes, it gave me a hearty laugh as well. Moving on.

Well, I don't know how strong the East Turkistan movement is, but I would definitely like something to be done about the unequal treatment of Uighurs in China. I believe that separatist feelings can be defeated in Xinjiang if the Uighurs get similar treatment as the Han Chinese, which quite apparently they don't. Also, a little more sensitivity on the issue by the Chinese will be beneficial, because it is a well proven fact that by blocking Muslims from praying on Friday, you will only increase the aggravation. The Chinese need to study the issue and deal with is properly, rather than to just suppress with force for the short-term, increasing anger and tension in the long-run.

As for Pakistan's response, as you said above, due to our debt to the Chinese, we may not be in a position to openly raise the issue. The Chinese are very a proud people, as they should be, and one of the primary reasons for our good relations with them has been our acceptance of them as a sovereign, self-determined and capable nation. We were one of the first countries to recognize them, and the only country that helped ease the tension between the US and China. They have certainly not forgotten this, and have put up time ang again with our two-timing politicians simply for the sake of good relations with Pakistan. If we publicly raise the Uighur issue, it may rustle some feathers and their confidence in our unshakeable support may waver. Therefore, on an international level, I definitely believe that the best response would be determined silence. However, I believe that it is Pakistan's responsibility as an Islamic Republic, and as a country that overtly supports freedom struggles in Chechnya, Palastine and Kashmir, to try to reconcile the Han Chinese-Uighur issue through back-channel diplomacy. In fact, our quiet but determined efforts to bring peace with Muslims within China may even boost our standing as a friend in their eyes. As for the East Turkistan movement, Pakistan must not interfere at all, even though it may be slightly hypocritical of us. We can't afford to support the East Turkistan movement, and we cannot afford to deny Muslim Turkic Uighurs the right for self-determinism. Therefore, if silence is broken on the East Turkistan movement issue, even if it is through back-channels, it will be a lose-lose situation.

To summarize, we must raise the issue of Uighur treatment privately with the Chinese, but we should leave the East Turkistan issue out.



wtf said:


> I am guessing you might hear from Germany or France. They seem to somehow get away with speaking their minds on almost all issues around the world (Or don't care about consequences).


Yep, I've noticed that too. Sarkozy, in particular, has been the king of the clowns. I don't mind when countries make their points heard, but I do when they think they have the right to interfere in everybody's business.

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## Omar1984

I think we should side with China for 2 very important reasons:

1. Turkey is no where near Pakistan. We have good relations with Turkey and we will keep it that way but that doesn't mean we should follow everything Turkey says or does. Pakistan does share a border with China and China and Iran are the only two friendly neighbors we got. China is more friendly towards Pakistan than Iran is.

2. If you haven't noticed, Balochis are also killing Punjabis in Balochistan just because some Punjabis are working and living in Balochistan. If tomorrow, we see the exact same crisis in Balochistan as Xinjiang, what do you think Pakistan should do? Just keep quiet and let Balochis massacre Punjabis in their own country?



We should support China not China's separatist groups. 
THE WORST THING PAKISTAN CAN DO IS SUPPORT UIGHURS. That will hurt Pakistan's relations with China and we can not afford to lose China as an ally.


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## oct605032048

There are 3 or 4 million migration workers from all over the country to beijing or shanghai to better jobs and higher incomes, the same thing in Xinjiang____which is 100 times larger than beijing.
People comes from neibouring poor provinces not because of state sponcer but to seek a better life. What is wrong with that?


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## typewriter

DarkStar said:


> We should, however, put the Turkish criticism in context. When was the last time that we heard Turkey speaking about atrocities of the Bharati forces in Kashmir? I certainly haven't.
> 
> Turks, even the JamateIslami inspired govt., are ultra nationalists and always speak up for other turks, or those they perceive to be so. The Uighurs are Turks, and the area they inhabit today Xinjiang/East Turkestan forms part of the original homeland of the Turks, so their outburst must be seen through the paradigm of their national consciousness
> 
> They are no bleeding hearts.



I believe it is the same for Pakistan. I don't recollect them crying about the Rohignya people even though their a muslim ethnic minority suffering. All the crocodile tears about muslim "brotherhood" is generally b(i)ased only in favour of their community or land disputes with neighbouring nations.


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## typewriter

This thread and the responses by the Pakistanis has proved that when push comes to shove, they, or any muslim dominated country (a few exceptions apart) wouldn't lift a finger to so much as even criticize such atrocities, against fellow muslims. This is one reason why the Islamic voice hardly has credibility on the world stage.


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## Gabbar

DistortedIndia said:


> GarbageGabbar, which part of the above content is illogical to you?
> 
> I will be glad to enlighten you and elevate you from Garbage status to Gibberish.



You dont have the ability to enlighten anybody. If you didn't get it by reading your own post by now, you will never get it.


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## PAFAce

Omar1984 said:


> We should support China not China's separatist groups.
> THE WORST THING PAKISTAN CAN DO IS SUPPORT UIGHURS. That will hurt Pakistan's relations with China and we can not afford to lose China as an ally.


We can not support the Chinese government's treatment of Uighurs, not simply because they are Muslims, but because they are humans. And oh my goodness, did you just compare Chinese treatment of Uighurs to Balochi treatment in Pakistan? Balochis have an entire province, they have political representation, they have rights, they have freedom of religion. The Uighurs have none of these things. If anyone supports Balochi separatist movements, it would be purely for anti-Pakistan reasons. This is not the case with China. I am not anti-China, but I an anti-Chinese-treatment-of-Uighurs.



typewriter said:


> I believe it is the same for Pakistan. I don't recollect them crying about the Rohignya people even though their a muslim ethnic minority suffering. All the crocodile tears about muslim "brotherhood" is generally b(i)ased only in favour of their community or land disputes with neighbouring nations.


It's due to the lack of knowledge of the Rohignya issues. I ask myself, what possible reason would Pakistan have to purposely stay silent against Burma/Mayanmar? Ocham's razor, the simplest answer is usually the right one, and that is that the average Pakistani does not know much about their issues. As for the awareness amongst the Turks regarding the Kashmir issue, there is not a nation in the world, in particular the Western world, which is not awar of the conflict. For crying out loud, it is the reason for constant tension between two nuclear states. You are comparing the Kashmir issue with something that is not even in the same cetegory. DarkStar's argument stands.

In fact, I'll admit, I wasn't aware of the plight of the Uighurs until recently. Now that I know, I am concerned about them despite the fact that China is an ally. Is that bias? See, what you have just done here is generalize an entire people, namely us Pakistanis, based on presumptions and some preconceived notions. That, friend, is a pretty damn biased outlook in itself.

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## Omar1984

typewriter said:


> This thread and the responses by the Pakistanis has proved that when push comes to shove, they, or any muslim dominated country (a few exceptions apart) wouldn't lift a finger to so much as even criticize such atrocities, against fellow muslims. This is one reason why the Islamic voice hardly has credibility on the world stage.




Hmm maybe only Iran but they wouldn't speak in this case after hearing the Uighur leader is living in exile in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA


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## third eye

The larger issue that comes to mind is the Ummah ?

Why is it applied selectively ? It should be all or nothing. If Muslims in any other part of the world were denied friday prayers there would have been an outcry world wide of denial of religious rights....silence here.

Compare this with the Burka issue in france do we see double standards ?

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## IceCold

third eye said:


> The larger issue that comes to mind is the Ummah ?
> 
> Why is it applied selectively ? It should be all or nothing. If Muslims in any other part of the world were denied friday prayers there would have been an outcry world wide of denial of religious rights....silence here.
> 
> *Compare this with the Burka issue in france do we see double standards *?



Yes however the reason is not double standards rather politics. The concept of Ummah is long lost, policies are driven by politics. Welcome to the real world.


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## third eye

IceCold said:


> Yes however the reason is not double standards rather politics. The concept of Ummah is long lost, policies are driven by politics. Welcome to the real world.



I live in the real world. 

Was merely drawing attention to the hypocrisy that exists on religious issues - more so among the Islamic community where a misplaced sense of ' brotherhood "is propogated & selectively exercised by the leadership . 

In life and international relations , it has always been ' each man for himself" with no " women & children first" either.

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## afriend

gpit said:


> How hilarious!
> 
> Dare you say Xinjiang is not a home to Han and other 45 ethnics other than Uighur?
> 
> If you learn the history, Han had entered and settled down in Xinjiang with other ethnics *centuries before *Uighur was formed as an ethnic, and Han stays there with other ethnic groups, albeit smaller in number compared with Uighur.
> 
> Whose home is Xinjiang to? Its the home to all Chinese ethnics living there for centuries!
> 
> Its about social equality that people have to address here, not whose home type of foolish and sinister stuff.



Dear i didnt say that xinjang is home for x or y, but i was trying to high light the discrimination between x and y.There should be an inclusive development.
I see a racist tone in your above post which are pro han chinese, but what i am trying to say is please take the aspirations of ugiyors too they too are chinese right..??


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## A1Kaid

gpit said:


> Show your prejudice!
> 
> Truth is ethnic independent. If you think otherwise, only appropriate description is &#8220; myopic&#8221; and &#8220;racist&#8221;.
> 
> Let&#8217;s go for rational discussion, if you are sincere.
> 
> BTW, I assure you many Americans are ignorant, because they don't have to care. Hopefully we don't fall into that category.
> 
> 
> 
> You are free to hold your opinions.
> 
> The fact (not opinion) is, *the Han Chinese had control over Xinjiang, where multiple ethnics thrived there except Turkic people, as early as West Han Dynasty around 60 BC*, with its headquarters at Wulei (now in North Tarim Basin). Later, an extension of Great Wall, a typical symbol of ancient Chinese sphere of control, *was built 300 miles into present Gansu-Xinjiang border*.
> 
> *The Uighurs seemed to appear (only) around 3 DC as Han Dynasty declines. *
> 
> The resurrection of Tang Dynasty witnessed re-control of Xinjiang, with two military commanderies in Anxi (640) and Beiting (702) in the north and south of the Tian Shan. The decrease of Tang dynasty helped Arabic influence in these areas. Nonetheless, *Mongolian still remained as the language at that time*.
> 
> Yuan had also incorporated the region into China, but Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) asserted its firm control over it.
> 
> Remind you that, China is a multi-ethnic country with Han the majority.
> 
> *There are Russians and Kazaks, etc. They look different and speak differently from Han, and share no heritage of the Chinese. Should each and every of those ethnics declare independence form China?*
> 
> National self-determination is a controversial issue. While people are entitled with the rights to shake off the shackles of colonists and imperialism, it is also believed that &#8216;Yet if every ethnic, religious or linguistic group claimed statehood, there would be no limit to fragmentation, and peace, security and well-being for all would become ever more difficult to achieve.&#8217; (UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali stated in his otherwise upbeat 1992 report <An Agenda for Peace>).
> 
> 
> 
> Peevishness doesn&#8217;t make a claim any more appealing.
> 
> You don&#8217;t have to heed US government, and I certainly don't. I only represent myself, as an individual, not US government.
> 
> I oppose Taiwan independence. I oppose Tibet independence. Because for those particular cases, &#8220;there would be no limit to fragmentation, and peace, security and well-being for all would become ever more difficult to achieve&#8221;.
> 
> 
> 
> As history and facts demonstrates, *Uyghurs are not the first people living in that land*. Other ethnics and Han Chinese controlled the land 60 BC and earlier, whereas Turkic speakers started to have influence only when Tang declined.
> 
> *By your logic, Turkic speakers should also evacuate the land and yield to Han or to those pre Han ethnics.* How ridiculous!
> 
> Human rights issue has to be addressed in China in general, and in Xinjiang, Tibet and anywhere else in particular. Secession is not a solution. Instead, a worsened human rights record can be foreseen.









Now I want to get to the meat of your argument as this is the most appetizing part of the debate.




> "*The fact *(not opinion) is, *the Han Chinese had control over Xinjiang, where multiple ethnics thrived there except Turkic people, as early as West Han Dynasty around 60 BC*, with its headquarters at Wulei (now in North Tarim Basin). Later, an extension of Great Wall, a typical symbol of ancient Chinese sphere of control, *was built 300 miles into present Gansu-Xinjiang border*.
> 
> *The Uighurs seemed to appear (only) around 3 DC as Han Dynasty declines. *-gpit





Let me begin.

You claim the Han Chinese had control over "Xinjiang" but specifically the West Han Dynasty around 60 BC.

Well my research shows how exaggerated your claims are. I also found out much of the information you posted is from Chinese Government sources on Chinese history.

The truth is one the history at least exploration and written history of "Xinjiang" or East Turkistan dates back even further and before the arrival of the West Han Dynasty which is around 60 BC. There was one group of Turkic-Mongoloid Nomads that settled in the region now known as East Turkistan/Xinjiang. That is the _Xiongnu_, a predominant group of Nomadic Turks with also Mongoloid tribes. They entered "Xinjiang" around the 3rd-2nd BC this predates the arrival of Chinese settlers by over 200 years.

"
Xiongnu

*nomadic pastoral people who at the end of the 3rd century bc formed a great tribal league that was able to dominate much of Central Asia for more than 500 years*. China&#8217;s wars against the Xiongnu, who were a constant threat to the country&#8217;s northern frontier throughout this period, led to the Chinese exploration and conquest of much of Central Asia."

Source: Xiongnu (people) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia










Now what we must look at who were the Xiongnu genetically, what ethnic people were they?

*
"Though there is still much debate as to who exactly the Xiongnu were, or whether they were identical to the Huns, the prevailing theory is that the Huns were the Xiongnu, and archeological and linguistic evidence suggests a Turkic origin for them."*

Source: http://www.colorq.org/Meltingpot/article.aspx?d=Asia&x=ChineseTurks

Read below about some recent discoveries on Central Asian and Xiongnu history and origins in regards to early Turkic peoples.


"The researchers found that interbreeding between Europeans and Asians occurred much earlier than previously thought. They also found DNA sequences similar to those in present-day Turks, supporting the idea that some of the Turkish people originated in Mongolia. 


Skeletons from the most recent graves also contained DNA sequences similar to those in people from present-day Turkey. T*his supports other studies indicating that Turkish tribes originated at least in part in Mongolia at the end of the Xiongnu period. *"

Source: Ancient DNA Tells Tales from the Grave



We are not simply talking about the arrival of the Uyghurs we are talking about the Turks whom the Uyghurs stem from, the early Turkic empires are the origins of the Uyghurs. The first Turkic empire "The Great Hun Empire The Great Hun Empire ( 204 BC - 216 AD)" actually first ruled the region now known as E. Turkistan/Xinjiang in the 3rd-2nd centuries BC, again this predates the arrival of the West Han Dynasty by 200 years at least.

The following states and empires were founded by the Turks;

** The Great Hun Empire ( 204 BC - 216 AD )*
* The Western Hun Empire ( 48 - 216 )
* The European Hun Empire ( 375 - 454 )
* The Akhun Empire ( 420 - 562 )
* The Gok Turk Empire ( 552 - 743 )
* The Avar Empire ( 565 - 803 )
* The Khazar Empire ( 651 - 983 )
* The Uigur State ( 744 - 1335 )
* The Karahan State ( 940 - 1040 )
* The Ghaznavid State ( 963 - 1183 )
* The Great Seljuk Empire ( 1040- 1157 )
* The Harzemshah State ( 1157 - 1231 )
* The Alt&#305;nordu State ( 1236 - 1502 )
* The Tamberlane Empire ( 1368 - 1501 )
* The Babur Empire ( 1526 - 1858 )
* The Ottoman Empire ( 1299 - 1922 )

Source: Turkey travel Guide, all the info about Turkey


"The feared mounted warriors of the Hun Empire of Europe now are *believed to have descended from the Xiongnu *of Inner Mongolia. It was primarily the Xiongnu."

Source: Nomadic Art


*Here is a map of the "Great Hum Empire" which was the first Turkic Empire when it existed in the 3rd BC - 2nd C.E/AD (that is around 400 years of existence)*, notice on the right side of the picture you see the Chinese Han dynasty in red.








Here is an *earlier map* of territory first settled and rules by the Turkic "The Great Hun Empire", the first Turkic Empire.


*As everyone can see the first Turkic empire "Great Hun" or "Hun" Empire covered Mongolia, Northern China, and most importantly EAST TURKISTAN!* The first and second picture clearly show the Turkic Hun Empire predated any Chinese settlement or entrance in Xinjiang by at least 200 years.

Source: http://studentorgs.utexas.edu/husa/origins/hunhist/hunart.html




Also the Chinese by your own admission entered these Turkic lands around 60 BC under the West Han Dynasty and established the "Protectorate of the Western Regions" to try and manage the newly entered land of East Turkistan, which was already settled by Turkic Hun peoples.


Let's not forget that historically Turks have lived in East Turkistan longer than any other Mongoloid or Chinese Han people. The Gokturk empire The Khazar empire the Uyghur state and other Turkic empires all lived in the region much much longer than any Chinese people.



I put a lot of time in this post to do intense research.

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## A1Kaid

PAFAce


You may want to read the thread below I'm sure you'll find the debate there very interesting as it strongly relates to your concerns/interest and thread.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/1234-red-chinas-fear-islam-5.html

It gets interesting at page 5 and onward.


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## aimarraul

Urumqi looks to the future with prayer
By Hu Yinan, Mu Qian and Lei Xiaoxun (China Daily)
Updated: 2009-07-11 08:48

URUMQI: Contrary to earlier reports, mandatory Friday prayers were held in some mosques in Urumqi, which is still struggling to recover from the July 5 riots.

Mosques run by Uygur and Hui communities in the city's Liudaowan area were opened for the afternoon prayer, a bold move by imams that scotched rumors that the government had asked all the mosques to shut their doors to avoid more violence.

A municipal official of the capital of the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region said the authorities did not ask any mosque to close. Some imams did close a few mosques, but they did so voluntarily out of security concerns.


Memetimin Hudaberdi, deputy chief of the Islamic association of Shuimogou district, which runs the Uygur mosque in Liudaowan, told China Daily that more than 1,000 people, almost as many as on other Fridays, prayed in the mosque.

"The imams believed things would be under control, that's why they decided to keep the mosques open," he said.

The Friday congregational prayer, jumu'ah in Arabic, was a critical test for the authorities in their relentless efforts to restore order in the city.


Tens of thousands of armed police have been deployed to restore normalcy in the city. On Friday, they continued patrolling Urumqi's densely populated areas and using loudspeakers to urge people to maintain ethnic unity.

Combined with a heavy security presence, the efforts have restored peace and order to a large extent. But some people still fear that it could take a long time before the city emerges out of the shadow of the gruesome riots.

A notice in Uygur saying jumu'ah had been cancelled and advising the faithful to pray at home was posted outside the Yanghang mosque in Tianshan district, one of the worst affected areas in Sunday's riots.

But the Uygurs who began gathering there around 1 pm, more than an hour before jumu'ah, said prayers in the mosque cannot be cancelled. Some claimed to have walked across the city to attend the prayer.

"It's incumbent upon all Muslims to attend jumu'ah in a mosque," said Abdullah, a construction worker from China's westernmost city of Kashgar.

With tears welling up in his eyes, the 23-year-old, surrounded by dozens of anxious Uygurs and supported by up to 100 others outside, said no one wanted violence. Many among the crowd burst into tears when Abdullah said his 18-year old brother, who is still in high school, had been missing since July 5.

The mosque gate was opened around 2 pm, and more than 1,000 people joined the prayer half and hour later.

"This (jumu'ah) is the call of the people and the mission (of the mosque). Not letting people in could only have produced negative results," said Yasim Xukur, a civil servant, just after the prayer.

The 28-year-old said the Uygurs involved in July 5 riots "are not true Muslims".


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## Renegade

*China's 'Go West' policy fuels ethnic tensions*


Al Jazeera English - News


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## duhastmish

*Uighurs protest against closure of mosques*


BEIJING: *Chinas decision to close mosques in trouble hit Urumqi during the Friday prayers resulted in demonstrations at some places of worship.*
Riot police managed to quell the demonstrations and whisked away dozens of them with hands above their heads.
Though the decision to close mosques was apparently taken to avoid possible clashes with the Han Chinese population, it *was seen by many Uighurs Muslims as interference in their religious rights. This was the first signs of unrest since groups of women demonstrated last Tuesday demanding that those arrested after Sundays riots, which killed 156 people, be released. *

The White Mosque in Urumqi, the regional capital of Xinjiang, was the main focus of demonstrators who dared large groups of riot police with submachine guns, armored vehicles and even a helicopter hovered overhead. The other Muslim community of Hui defied official orders to open the doors of the mosques after groups of worshippers began shouting.

*Beijing has been desperately trying to avoid the Urumqi riot becoming an international issue, *which would give the rebel Uighurs a shot in the arm and give their movement some of the respectability of the agitation by rebel Tibetans. But its hopes on the count were dashed with a United States official making a statement on the riots on Friday. 

James Jones, the U.S. National Security Adviser, said on the sidelines of the G-8 summit in Italy that China should act with "appropriate restraint" in dealing with the Xinjiang rebels.
China has stoutly opposed a statement from *Turkish government leaders, who want the issue of Urumqi riots and rights of the Tukic-speaking to be discussed in the United Nations Security Council.* Beijing has described it as interference in its domestic policy and warned that such moves will affect the relationship between the two countries.

Turkey's support for the Uygur separatists and terrorists can only cause public indignation in China. If it does not want to ruin the relationship between two peoples, please stop standing behind those mobs and separatists, stop being an axis of evil! the state-run Global Times said in a strongly worded editorial on Friday.
Uighurs protest against closure of mosques - China - World - The Times of India


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## duhastmish

*Turkey attacks China 'genocide'*



*Turkey's prime minister has described ethnic violence in China's Xinjiang region as "a kind of genocide".*






There is no other way of commenting on this event," Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

He spoke after a night-time curfew was reimposed in Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, where Muslim Uighurs and Han Chinese clashed last Sunday.

The death toll from the violence there has now risen from 156 to 184, China's state-run Xinhua news agency reports. More than 1,000 people were injured.

Turkey, a predominantly Muslim country, shares linguistic and religious links with the Uighurs in China's western-most region. 

"The event taking place in China is a kind of genocide," Mr Erdogan told reporters in Turkey's capital, Ankara.

"There are atrocities there, hundreds of people have been killed and 1,000 hurt. We have difficulty understanding how China's leadership can remain a spectator in the face of these events."

The Turkish premier also urged Beijing to "address the question of human rights and do what is necessary to prosecute the guilty".

Mr Erdogan's comments came a day after Turkish Trade and Industry Minister Nihat Ergun urged Turks to boycott Chinese goods.

Beijing has so far not publicly commented on Mr Erdogan's criticism.

But it said that of the 184 people who died, 137 were Han Chinese.

Uighurs defiant

Earlier on Friday, the Chinese authorities reimposed a night-time curfew in Urumqi.

The curfew had been suspended for two days after officials said they had the city under control.

Mosques in the city were ordered to remain closed on Friday and notices were posted instructing people to stay at home to worship. 

But at least two opened after crowds of Uighurs gathered outside and demanded to be allowed in to pray on the holiest day of the week in Islam.

"We decided to open the mosque because so many people had gathered. We did not want an incident," a policeman outside the White Mosque in a Uighur neighbourhood told the AP news agency.

After the prayers, riot police punched and kicked a small group of Uighurs protesters, who demanded the release of men detained after last Sunday's violence, the BBC's Quentin Sommerville says.

Meanwhile, the city's main bus station was reported to be crowded with people trying to escape the unrest.

Extra bus services had been laid on and touts were charging up to five times the normal face price for tickets, AFP news agency said.

"It is just too risky to stay here. We are scared of the violence," a 23-year-old construction worker from central China said.

The violence began on Sunday when a Uighur rally to protest against a deadly brawl between Uighurs and Han Chinese several weeks ago in a toy factory in southern Guangdong province turned violent.

Tensions have been growing in Xinjiang for many years, as Han migrants have poured into the region, where the Uighur minority is concentrated.

Many Uighurs feel economic growth has bypassed them and complain of discrimination and diminished opportunities. 

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Turkey attacks China 'genocide'

*
this have to be discussed in united nations - chinese atrocities are increasing day by day - they cant hide the pain and suffering of these people. it have to come in front of rest of world . where are those religious group who fight in name of islam ?? a shameful act of bullying by china indeed. * need to teach some lesson to china indeed.


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## dabong1

Why do these indians keep posting the same thing about muslims being banned from going to masjid when it is untue........for heavens sake it was live on al jazeera muslims going to masjid on friday in Urumqi.

*[DONT INSULT]* indians dont seem to get it........most of the people who where killed where non muslims.........silly indians will more then likelly post the same post about china closing masjid again.....dumb and dummer indians on this forum.


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## duhastmish

dabong1 said:


> Why do these indians keep posting the same thing about muslims being banned from going to masjid when it is untue........for heavens sake it was live on al jazeera muslims going to masjid on friday in Urumqi.
> 
> You dumb indians dont seem to get it........most of the people who where killed where non muslims.........dumb indians will more then likelly post the same post about china closing masjid agains.....dumb and dummer indians on this forum.



*[DONT INSULT]* - You must be retard to abuse indians as whole. before reading the artical- just read there its not indian - its british media BBC. 
BUT HTEN AGAIN YOU just wont get it ...... so keep yeppin your yiddli-I-po. 

aimaraul will come with some of his trolling -post mentioning India: or you indians but the sensibilty preveil ignore his meaning less post.

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## aimarraul

chinese are in pain......you indian happy now?Turkey's prime minister blame china for 140 Han's death,chinese govt ask everyone to calm ,this "genocide" makes sense


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## aimarraul

these mobs will only make chinese more united ,it will only make me care chinese musilim more than before,your dirty dream about " china goes down,so india can replace" will only come true in your dream&#12290;


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## Admal Keyani

I think this isssue is exaggerated, to defame Chinese image around the world. What the Chinese need to do is stand together as one nation and not be divided. This incident is suspiciously similar to Tibetan riots in 2008 where, Han Chinese were attacked brutally and killed. The world Media then had a field day in demonizing the Chinese goverment. However obviously the Chinese goverment must talk to these people and discourage them from further violence and bring economic stabillity where all parties can be happy. 

And Aimarraul you are right about one thing and that is the Indians are enjoying this, they seem to find it amusing that China is at the moment in a dire situation.


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## dabong1

duhastmish said:


> you should change your name from : dabong to DUMB1 - You must be retard to abuse indians as whole. before reading the artical- just read there its not indian - its british media BBC.
> BUT HTEN AGAIN YOU just wont get it ...... so keep yeppin your yiddli-I-po.



*[DONT INSULT]*
I have no problem with you or any other indian posting articles but once it has been disproved dont keep posting the same crap.......it may have been a BBC link but it was you indians that keep posting the same thing again and again even after it has been disproved.


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## aimarraul

these are the real chinese muslims,they will only make china stronger:


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## dabong1

aimarraul said:


> chinese are in pain......you indian happy now?Turkey's prime minister blame china for 140 Han's death,chinese govt ask everyone to calm ,this "genocide" makes sense



Well if we go off who has been killed its "genocide" against the han chinese.

"genocide"......more people have died in kashmir so should we not call that genocide also.


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## duhastmish

you people are just trolling the thread - its noway about - chinese muslim nobody in the world is sayign they are wrong or right- 
*
its about NAZI CHINESE GOVERMENT. who is not letting people live in peace by violating their basic laws. *
*look at this artical - you ignorent people - just read what chinese goverment is doing . here*

its not indian artical its aussie before it was uk and us media .

*Thousands may have died in violence in Xinjiang, China*

THE l*eader of the exiled Uighur community* from China's northwestern Xinjiang region says* thousands may have died in violence in recent days.*

Rebiya Kadeer, the Washington-based head of the World Uighur Congress, says it is difficult to come up with a comprehensive toll from the region, where the native *Uighur ethnic group has long complained of repression.*

"According to unconfirmed reports we get on the ground, now the number is up to 1000 or some say *3000*," Ms Kadeer told a news conference at the US Capitol.

She said the *deaths occurred not only in Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, but also across the vast region, saying there had been "mob killings in different cities such as Kashgar".*

Ms Kadeer, who spent about six years in a Chinese prison before being released under US pressure in 2005, estimated that another *5000 people had been imprisoned. *

Chinese state media said 184 people were killed in Urumqi, as Uighurs attacked people from China's dominant Han ethnic group on Sunday.

But Ms Kadeer said *security forces over-reacted to peaceful protests and used deadly force.*
Beijing has accused exiles of exaggerating the death toll and fomenting the violence, charges Ms Kadeer denies.
*
"I'm against all violence. I have not done this and I will not do such a thing," she said.*

Ms Kadeer appeared alongside two members of Congress who introduced a resolution that would condemn China for its *"violent repression" of "peaceful Uighur protests".*

The resolution also calls on China to end its "slander" of Ms Kadeer. Chinese authorities accuse her of masterminding the violence and of ties to "terrorists" among Uighurs, who are largely Muslim.

*"I believe that statement by the Chinese government reveals more about the Chinese government than anything about Mrs Kadeer,*" said Congressman Bill Delahunt, a member of President Barack Obama's Democratic Party.

*"This it just offensive and repugnant," *he said. *"We are calling on the Chinese government to desist in slandering this woman who has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize on three separate occasions."*

*"I think what it demonstrates is the desperation of this particular regime in terms of dealing with what clearly is becoming a public relations disaster," he said.*

Ms Kadeer, the mother of 11, was once a department store magnate said to be the richest woman in China and hailed by Beijing as a model for the Uighur minority.

*But she ran afoul of the authorities as she complained about the treatment of the Uighurs. In 1999, she was arrested as she tried to meet a delegation of US congressional researchers and spent six years in prison.*

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25764271-401,00.html


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## dabong1

duhastmish said:


> you people are just trolling the thread - its noway about - chinese muslim nobody in the world is sayign they are wrong or right-
> *
> its about NAZI CHINESE GOVERMENT. who is not letting people live in peace by violating their basic laws. *
> *look at this artical - you ignorent people - just read what chinese goverment is doing . here*
> 
> its not indian artical its aussie before it was uk and us media .
> 
> *Thousands may have died in violence in Xinjiang, China*
> 
> THE l*eader of the exiled Uighur community* from China's northwestern Xinjiang region says* thousands may have died in violence in recent days.*
> 
> Rebiya Kadeer, the Washington-based head of the World Uighur Congress, says it is difficult to come up with a comprehensive toll from the region, where the native *Uighur ethnic group has long complained of repression.*
> 
> "According to unconfirmed reports we get on the ground, now the number is up to 1000 or some say *3000*," Ms Kadeer told a news conference at the US Capitol.
> 
> She said the *deaths occurred not only in Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, but also across the vast region, saying there had been "mob killings in different cities such as Kashgar".*
> 
> Ms Kadeer, who spent about six years in a Chinese prison before being released under US pressure in 2005, estimated that another *5000 people had been imprisoned. *
> 
> Chinese state media said 184 people were killed in Urumqi, as Uighurs attacked people from China's dominant Han ethnic group on Sunday.
> 
> But Ms Kadeer said *security forces over-reacted to peaceful protests and used deadly force.*
> Beijing has accused exiles of exaggerating the death toll and fomenting the violence, charges Ms Kadeer denies.
> *
> "I'm against all violence. I have not done this and I will not do such a thing," she said.*
> 
> Ms Kadeer appeared alongside two members of Congress who introduced a resolution that would condemn China for its *"violent repression" of "peaceful Uighur protests".*
> 
> The resolution also calls on China to end its "slander" of Ms Kadeer. Chinese authorities accuse her of masterminding the violence and of ties to "terrorists" among Uighurs, who are largely Muslim.
> 
> *"I believe that statement by the Chinese government reveals more about the Chinese government than anything about Mrs Kadeer,*" said Congressman Bill Delahunt, a member of President Barack Obama's Democratic Party.
> 
> *"This it just offensive and repugnant," *he said. *"We are calling on the Chinese government to desist in slandering this woman who has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize on three separate occasions."*
> 
> *"I think what it demonstrates is the desperation of this particular regime in terms of dealing with what clearly is becoming a public relations disaster," he said.*
> 
> Ms Kadeer, the mother of 11, was once a department store magnate said to be the richest woman in China and hailed by Beijing as a model for the Uighur minority.
> 
> *But she ran afoul of the authorities as she complained about the treatment of the Uighurs. In 1999, she was arrested as she tried to meet a delegation of US congressional researchers and spent six years in prison.*
> 
> Thousands may have died in violence in Xinjiang, China | World News | News.com.au



So you want us the take the word of a CIA asset who was not even there on the ground when it happened.......you might as well say a million people where killed...


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## Admal Keyani

1Kaid my Brother first of all Pakistan needs to help it's self rather than get involved in Chinese internal problems, which could have dire consequences for our friendship which obviously the enermy once. Yes your right the Prophet (Peace be upon him) did say that "Those who do not concern themselves with the affairs of Muslims are not of them." 

however none of the muslim countries give a flying monkeys about Pakistan and it's problems, so why should we a relatively poor country should meddle in affairs in which does not help Pakistan to progress. We should support the Chinese in this difficult time they are facing, because end of the day Chinese is killling Chinese which is not good.

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## duhastmish

dabong1 said:


> *So you want us the take the word of a CIA *asset who was not even there on the ground when it happened.......you might as well say a million people where killed...



Dude i would like to take media reports - but chinese goverment dont allow media to go there.

why ???? just run your horses ??????? i think it might be because they are lying here they are hiding the truth ????? huh - EXACTLY .

so i will not take Chinese government report - because if they are true they wont hide it ..................i mean its not that difficult to understand . and dont give me kashmir bullshyt here. - i dont want to know your two face stand on kashmir - because its not Kashmir thread.

but then again your just cant get it .


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## moha199

It's sad but i believe China will bring it under control


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## DarkStar

Omar1984 said:


> Uighurs are angry because Hans are settling and working in their region just like some Balochis are angry because Punjabis are settling and working in Balochistan. Also it is said that mostly Hans have been killed by Uighars, just like Blaochis are killing Punjabis in Balochistan.
> 
> Pakistan is in no position to support Uighars. They are terrorists who are selfish just like BLA and dont want their countrymen to work and live in their province. The less of these selfish rotten people, the better.
> 
> Pakistan is going through so much right now, the last thing we need is to lose our closest ally, China over some selfish Uighars who are just as bad as BLA.



Uighurs suffer from systematic oppression, and a land grab. Xinjiang is not China, it is annexed territory.

Are you saying all uighurs are terrorists? That seems a bit harsh.

As for uighurs killing Han Chinese, I'd take hte official figures with a pinch of salt. In most previous rioting, years back, 90 percent of the victims were Uighurs themselves, and this time it is no different either. Chinese officials have decided to misrepresent the true number of Uighurs killed. It beggars belief that Uighurs could have invaded the city center from the suburbs, and then kill so many Hans within such a militarised/securatised city.

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## Patriot

We should support CCP stand on this issue.As far as morality is concerned give me a break..how many times we supported insurgencies in other countries which caused a lot of bloodshed?We Pakistanis have a holier then thou attitude..Have Pakistanis ever spoken about Balochis like this who have been suffering from several years.


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## duhastmish

if oakistani goverment have to support diplomatically -CHINA for simple reason fo being their friend. doesnt mean - pakistani people have to support whats wrong . 

I think the truth is out in world - every body is condemning these attack on people and more over - the restrain on world media by goverment of china. I think more than chinese policy abotu minority whats hurting more is the DANDA RAJ . by china. people are kept quite with a tight slab on their behind. everytime they try to raise their voices. thats wrong infact once they allow people to raise their voices - people dont have a reason to raise their voices.


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## SurvivoR

You can not expect harsh reaction from common Pakistanis on the streets due to reasons:

1. Here in Pakistan the common people even the educated ones do not know what the real issue at hands in this part of China.

2. Majority here only know that there is this one Muslim province in China and they starve for separation.

Majority do not know what is this Ugher issue is. Unlike the issues of Muslims in other countries like India, Palestine and Indian Held Kashmir. That is why you see protests for Muslims rights in these above mentioned areas.

On the other hand expecting the Pakistani government to condemn China in the open and on Media is childish. Because it is just like you are expecting from US to condemn Israel although there is sharp difference between Chinese attitude viz viz Ugher and US attitude viz viz Israel.

One more thing which needs to be kept in mind is the involvement of US in current riots in this Chinese Muslim area. 

We all know that US hand is there. In such a situation you can not jump to conclusion and blam China.


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## BSF

Pakistan is just mum because it does not want to anger China by saying against her.

I thought all Muslims treat each other as their brothers.

This was the reason given to me when I said Godhra riot was an internal issue of India.

What suddenly all the Ughirs are not Muslims anymore ?


Hey at least one Indian Muslim had the guts in speaking his heart out against the oppression of ughirs in china. He was not a hypo crate like other so called "Islamic countries".

You know what bothers me is that for all that noise made by people who called Indian army in Kashmir as a suppressant. Let me tell you some thing.The Indian army never banned a prayer in a mosque on a Friday.And china does that at the drop of a hat.

You have a lot to think about my fellow Pakistani members.


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## s90

Personnally i think its not wise like what Turkey did to comment on internal matter of an other country,do China ever comment about Turkey's treatment of Turkish Kurds or alleged Turkish genocide of Armenians in WW1?


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## BSF

Now let us suppose 
*suppose*
That this had happened in India.
Let us say Hyderabad, Would Pakistan have treated it as an internal issue?
Before you say yes .......Did it treat Godhra as India's Internal issue?

Its an honest question.

If Pakistani people keep quite now then they will be called hypo crates for ever.

The rest is up to you !


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## dabong1

BEIJING &#8212; Chinese authorities are loosening restrictions on a section of its 20-million Muslim minority in an effort to win hearts in the Middle East, where it seeks to strengthen trade and oil ties.

"When I graduated from high school, in 1986, the situation was very difficult," a woman running an Islamic girls school in Tongxin, a Hui Muslim-majority county in Ningxia, told Reuters.

"Now the religious policies are more relaxed. We can go ahead without fear," she added, refusing to be named.

*Hui Muslims are estimated at nearly 10 million of China's sizable Muslim minority of 20 millions.*

With a heritage traced back to the Middle East and Central Asia, Hui Muslims are enjoying more religious freedom in the atheist country.

Mosques devastated in the frenzy of the Cultural Revolution in Tongxin have been rebuilt with surprising splendor for one of the country's poorest regions.

More Chinese Muslims are fulfilling their dreams of learning about their faith as the government relaxes controls over Islam.

Hai, a 25-year-old Hui Muslim, goes to the mosque in Beijing every day to pray as he did growing up in the northwestern Chinese region of Ningxia.

"Not everyone was like that but my family was, and now more and more people are. Our religion is developing very quickly," said Hai, who declined to give his full name.

According to official data, China has 20 million Muslims, most of them are concentrated in Xinjiang, Ningxia, Gansu, and Qinghai regions and provinces.

Smaller Muslim communities can also be found throughout interior China.

Islam came to China via Muslim businessman during the era of the Tang Dynasty.

There have also been reports of companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) coming to China.

Official Leniency 

"The relationship with the Muslim Hui has always been a stake of international diplomacy, part of a charm offensive by China," said Bequelin.

Hui Muslims are also allowed to building schools in their inhabited areas.

"The national policies are opening up and as long as you don't go against the country's religious policies and regulations, you can freely progress," said the Muslim woman who has 68 students in her school.

Most of her students wear hijab, although it is rare to see women wearing the Islamic headdress in the area.

Official leniency vis-&#224;-vis Hui Muslims is seen as a gesture for the community in return for shying away from any political engagement.

"They're banking on the fact that China's Muslims are aware of the limits and the rules and they know how to play the game," said Dru Gladney, an expert at Pomona College in California.

For now, it's a compromise that seems to be working.

This official stance contradicts the crackdown on Muslim Uighurs, who live mainly in the northwestern region of Xinjiang.

International human rights organizations have chided the Chinese government in several reports for its poor human rights record in predominantly Muslim regions, particularly Xinjiang.

Human Rights Watch has said in a recent report that Chinese policy in Xinjiang "denies Uighurs religious freedom, and by extension freedom of association, assembly, and expression."
China Uses Muslims to Woo Partners - IslamOnline.net - News

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## IceCold

BSF said:


> Now let us suppose
> *suppose*
> That this had happened in India.
> *Let us say Hyderabad, Would Pakistan have treated it as an internal issue?
> Before you say yes .......Did it treat Godhra as India's Internal issue*?
> 
> Its an honest question.
> 
> If Pakistani people keep quite now then they will be called hypo crates for ever.
> 
> The rest is up to you !



Before we Pakistanis reply to this, tell me when Buggti was killed, did India treat it as an internal matter of Pakistan?

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## BSF

> Before we Pakistanis reply to this, tell me when Buggti was killed, did India treat it as an internal matter of Pakistan?



Does India say that is a Islamist republic republic???

Now get back to the topic and quit trolling around!


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## dabong1

duhastmish said:


> Dude i would like to take media reports - but chinese goverment dont allow media to go there.
> 
> why ???? just run your horses ??????? i think it might be because they are lying here they are hiding the truth ????? huh - EXACTLY .
> 
> so i will not take Chinese government report - because if they are true they wont hide it ..................i mean its not that difficult to understand .



So al jazeera and all the other news groups in china reporting live are part of a cover up with the chinese govt?





duhastmish said:


> and dont give me kashmir bullshyt here. - i dont want to know your two face stand on kashmir - because its not Kashmir thread.
> but then again your just cant get it .



Off course you dont want to compare the mass murder and rape in kashmir to a riot over a couple of days in one chinese muslim city where more non muslim where killed then muslims.

You indians want to bring islam into now when its the chimese and try to make it out as if its some sort of anti muslim genocide that is taking place in china.......why not use the same anology when it comes to hindu india killing muslims in india......compare the number and hindu india beats china at least at one thing.


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## BSF

> BEIJING &#8212; Chinese authorities are loosening restrictions on a section of its 20-million Muslim minority in an effort to win hearts in the Middle East, where it seeks to strengthen trade and oil ties.
> 
> "When I graduated from high school, in 1986, the situation was very difficult," a woman running an Islamic girls school in Tongxin, a Hui Muslim-majority county in Ningxia, told Reuters.
> 
> "Now the religious policies are more relaxed. We can go ahead without fear," she added, refusing to be named.
> 
> Hui Muslims are estimated at nearly 10 million of China's sizable Muslim minority of 20 millions.
> 
> With a heritage traced back to the Middle East and Central Asia, Hui Muslims are enjoying more religious freedom in the atheist country.
> 
> Mosques devastated in the frenzy of the Cultural Revolution in Tongxin have been rebuilt with surprising splendor for one of the country's poorest regions.
> 
> More Chinese Muslims are fulfilling their dreams of learning about their faith as the government relaxes controls over Islam.
> 
> Hai, a 25-year-old Hui Muslim, goes to the mosque in Beijing every day to pray as he did growing up in the northwestern Chinese region of Ningxia.
> 
> "Not everyone was like that but my family was, and now more and more people are. Our religion is developing very quickly," said Hai, who declined to give his full name.
> 
> According to official data, China has 20 million Muslims, most of them are concentrated in Xinjiang, Ningxia, Gansu, and Qinghai regions and provinces.
> 
> Smaller Muslim communities can also be found throughout interior China.
> 
> Islam came to China via Muslim businessman during the era of the Tang Dynasty.
> 
> There have also been reports of companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) coming to China.
> 
> Official Leniency
> 
> "The relationship with the Muslim Hui has always been a stake of international diplomacy, part of a charm offensive by China," said Bequelin.
> 
> Hui Muslims are also allowed to building schools in their inhabited areas.
> 
> "The national policies are opening up and as long as you don't go against the country's religious policies and regulations, you can freely progress," said the Muslim woman who has 68 students in her school.
> 
> Most of her students wear hijab, although it is rare to see women wearing the Islamic headdress in the area.
> 
> Official leniency vis-&#224;-vis Hui Muslims is seen as a gesture for the community in return for shying away from any political engagement.
> 
> "They're banking on the fact that China's Muslims are aware of the limits and the rules and they know how to play the game," said Dru Gladney, an expert at Pomona College in California.
> 
> For now, it's a compromise that seems to be working.
> 
> This official stance contradicts the crackdown on Muslim Uighurs, who live mainly in the northwestern region of Xinjiang.
> 
> International human rights organizations have chided the Chinese government in several reports for its poor human rights record in predominantly Muslim regions, particularly Xinjiang.
> 
> Human Rights Watch has said in a recent report that Chinese policy in Xinjiang "denies Uighurs religious freedom, and by extension freedom of association, assembly, and expression."
> China Uses Muslims to Woo Partners - IslamOnline.net - News



You might want to add the date when you post such manipulative threads
*Mon. Nov. 27, 2006*

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## third eye

A wound has been made , it will ( not be allowed to ) heal.

It may be ironical that those behind the wound may well be a combination of non state actors from those whom China has helped most & those whose money is invested in China.

The scurge of religious fundamentalism now has reached China too. This may well be among the 1st of the proverbial ' 1000 Cuts" . Only this time the " Brutus" is closer home. If not controlled, it may turn into a soft underbelly for China.

Meanwhile, the Islamic Nations exercise selective amnesia.


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## EjazR

China might be a good friend to the Pakistani government, but that should'nt stop the average pakistani from expressing concern about this issue as a human if not as a muslim.

China must allow full religious and ethnic freedom if it wants to improve inter-ethnic and inter-religious harmony among its population. And give political rights to Uighurs, Tibetans e.t.c. 

The saying of Hazarat Umar (RAH) come to mind: " The rule of non-muslims may last for long, but the rule of zulm (oppression) will be finished " . (Even if the the rule is of the muslims)


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## third eye

aimarraul said:


> chinese are in pain......you indian happy now?Turkey's prime minister blame china for 140 Han's death,chinese govt ask everyone to calm ,this "genocide" makes sense



Aimarraul,

No Indian can be happy at the pain of another nation simply coz any one who has suffered knows the pain others feel.

However, what is visible ( & I am sure it is visible to those in Bejing too) is the attempt to weaken a nation by injecting in it the AIDS like virus of religious fundamentalism which will follow soon behind whats happening now to the W part of China .

And.. nothing spreads faster than percieved religious persecution.


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## skeptic9

Chinese are not in pain, the are scared shitless. 

This is the first time since Tibet uprisings that the foreign hand has hinted it's presence in one of the largest Chinese provinces. The recent offer of Pakistani mediation of US-Taliban dialogue shows the intensity of shock Sino-Pak experienced. hay had no contingency plan for a high intensity conflict involving US forces inside Pakistan coupled with an unrest in Xinjiang (it is the Sino-Pak link).


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## aimarraul

skeptic9 said:


> Chinese are not in pain, the are scared shitless.
> 
> This is the first time since Tibet uprisings that the foreign hand has hinted it's presence in one of the largest Chinese provinces. The recent offer of Pakistani mediation of US-Taliban dialogue shows the intensity of shock Sino-Pak experienced. hay had no contingency plan for a high intensity conflict involving US forces inside Pakistan coupled with an unrest in Xinjiang (it is the Sino-Pak link).



it's india's best chance if you have any "forward policy",we will let you know what scare is.you are right ,we are scared shitless,please take your war dignity back,hurry up


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## Zob

third eye said:


> Aimarraul,
> 
> No Indian can be happy at the pain of another nation simply coz any one who has suffered knows the pain others feel.
> 
> However, what is visible ( & I am sure it is visible to those in Bejing too) is the attempt to weaken a nation by injecting in it the AIDS like virus of religious fundamentalism which will follow soon behind whats happening now to the W part of China .
> 
> And.. nothing spreads faster than percieved religious persecution.





ohhh well MUSLIMS all around the world are again feeling helpless & the CHINESE GOVERNMENT is following in the foot steps of the rest of the world!!! 


as for INDIA being happy well...HELLLL YAA!! i mean indian government dream...uprising in PAKISTAN & CHINA....the only threats to INDIA everyone else like bhuttan,nepal & srilanka were never a threat to INDIA!! 

so yes india is having a ball....let's talk about something new...


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## Kasrkin

*Okay. People this thread is a mess and a lot of you are to blame. Let me lay down the rules nice and simple. Those who can't follow them, don't post or you're in trouble.*

This is NOT a Kashmir thread. But I'm going to state a fact, the atrocities in Kashmir (I'm referring to the ones by Indian security forces or Indian-backed paramilitaries) are entirely in a different league from what has happened in China over these last few days. There is NO comparison in terms of the sheer volume of human abuse and injustice. Also there is a technicality involved, Kashmir is an internationally recognized _Disputed Territory_ much like parts of Palestine therefore what happened/happens there is of concern to the world and not India's internal matter no matter how much they pretend it is so. Secondly, in integral Indian Territory there have been atrocities against Muslims no doubt, and Pakistani Muslims have felt for them because of their close cultural linkages. However the Pakistan has never officially sought to confront or penalize India over its failures to act against those responsible because that is India&#8217;s internal matter. On the other hand India HAS tried to meddle in matters related to Pakistan&#8217;s Sikh/Hindu population as recently as a few months ago when the Taliban were supposedly on the rise, and the Indians had to be officially snubbed. 

Therefore at best this interference has been a two sided thing given our common past. However to insist that its only Pakistanis who&#8217;ve been screaming about Indian Muslims to the world is BS. If an Indian insists on branding Pakistan as a whole a &#8216;hypocrite&#8217; state based on this crappy logic then your post will be deleted. You obviously have issues against Pakistan, but learn to deal with them without indulging in these rants I&#8217;ve seen.

This issue in Xinjiang is ethnic and economic in nature as far as I can tell. But if you wish to discuss Muslim reaction (or lack of) in regards to this issue then do so with respect, integrity and don&#8217;t stereotype. Back your arguments with facts and particular references. But the similarities been Xinjiang and Kashmir are not up for debate. We can talk about India has a nation and how its system does or does not work out for Muslims in contrast to China. (But if someone posts another &#8216;Famous Muslims in India&#8217; list to &#8216;prove&#8217; that the whole Muslim population is perfectly settled and wealthy and represented then I&#8217;ll delete it). 

*No Personal attacks. No rants against Pakistan. And no more linking of Xinjiang with Kashmir. Keep it all civil or this thread will be closed.*

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## skeptic9

dabong1 said:


> Off course you dont want to compare the mass murder and rape in kashmir to a riot over a couple of days in one chinese muslim city where more non muslim where killed then muslims.
> 
> You indians want to bring islam into now when its the chimese and try to make it out as if its some sort of anti muslim genocide that is taking place in china.......why not use the same anology when it comes to hindu india killing muslims in india......compare the number and hindu india beats china at least at one thing.




Don't try to compare the Chinese human farm to any other countries.

Unlike China where gvt. is importing Hans in large numbers to skew the natural demographics is exactly opposite of India's policies in Kashmir. Nobody from other state can make permanent residence inside Kashmir under the Indian constitution. India wants a Kashmir of the Kashmiris but inside the framework of Indian constitution. Chinese Hans are occupying Xinjiang with their civilian invasion. I know Xinjiang is very developed as compared to Kashmir, BUT I also know that all those big industries, apartments and roads are serving the Hans, not the local Uighurs. Uighurs hardly get any jobs in thier own motherland and their rights are trampled by the Hans. Chinese = Hans. I don't think any other ethenic group gets any reasonable share of China's economic development. And that's the truth in Tibet too...where Tibetans can't even worship and Hans harvest their natural resources and lands.


AND..

Massacre in an ethnic conflict is N0T comparable to *massacre as a state policy*. In China the later is true.


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## Joe Shearer

PAFAce said:


> Well, I don't know how strong the East Turkistan movement is, but I would definitely like something to be done about the unequal treatment of Uighurs in China. I believe that separatist feelings can be defeated in Xinjiang if the Uighurs get similar treatment as the Han Chinese, which quite apparently they don't. Also, a little more sensitivity on the issue by the Chinese will be beneficial, because it is a well proven fact that by blocking Muslims from praying on Friday, you will only increase the aggravation. The Chinese need to study the issue and deal with is properly, rather than to just suppress with force for the short-term, increasing anger and tension in the long-run.



Dear Sir,

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

There is no easy response to this issue, no silver bullet. We are up against that most difficult proposition, the question of 'nationalities', which was used during the lead-up to Partition and Independence to justify their stands by both the AIML and the INC. In fact, what China faces is precisely the same problem of defining nationhood and citizenship in a satisfactory manner.

If I might be allowed to summarise briefly:


Nationality is used in two senses, first as an equivalent term to citizenship, and second as constituting a self-awareness born of several factors;
In the second use, 'nationality' is often substituted by the term 'identity'.
Identity has several factors forming the realisation of identity among the concerned population and their observers and neighbours.
These factors include ethnicity, language, culture (very broadly speaking) and religion;
These factors, 'identifiers', if you like, occur together, sometimes in hierarchic fashion, sometimes parallel and equal; there is no fixed rule and each 'identity' needs independent analysis;
There are some special characteristics relating to Islamic identity which may interest readers on this forum.

Where an ethno-linguistic group following the Islamic religion forms part of the Arab group including the population of eastern North Africa (i.e., not including parts of Algeria and Morocco, but including Libya, Tunisia and Egypt), it has a dominant Islamic identity.

Where an ethno-linguistic group outside this zone is Islamic by religion, they tend to define themselves by ethno-linguistic group, not by Islam, which remains important in terms of religion. Examples are Turks in Turkey, Iranians, Malays, Indonesians. These examples are people who are Turkish first, or Iranian first, and so on, without repudiating Islam in any way. 

Where _any_ group following Islam is a minority, _anywhere _at all, it stresses its Islamic identity. This includes Muslims in India, in the UK, in France, in Germany, in the US, in Russia, almost every case I have observed.

Only when this third category gets sufficient autonomy and independence to consider itself a majority does its ethno-linguistic character again re-surface. Till then, they have a siege mentality, and will stop at nothing to free itself. Consider Bangladesh as a part of the British Empire, and thereafter. 

I am afraid that the situation under discussion seems to be of the third type. I have also observed that Muslims in this situation will not give up their struggle, irrespective of the methods used against them. Period. Consider Bosnia-Herzegovina, and you will understand what I mean.

I hope that this will give readers a perspective on what lies ahead for the Chinese leadership, and in what ways they can very easily defuse the situation without losing possession of the large oil reserves and the strategic location of the Xinjiang province.

In any case, I do hope that this is found interesting.

'Joe S.'


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## aimarraul

your imaginary knowledge about Xinjiang make me impressed

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## DarkStar

Patriot said:


> We should support CCP stand on this issue.As far as morality is concerned give me a break..how many times we supported insurgencies in other countries which caused a lot of bloodshed?We Pakistanis have a holier then thou attitude..Have Pakistanis ever spoken about Balochis like this who have been suffering from several years.



Comparing Balochis and Uighurs is like comparing chalk and cheese. The Balochis chose to become part of the Pakistan federation, while no one has ever bothered to ask the Uighurs.

The majority of Balochis, except for a few trouble makers, are happy to be a part of the great Nation of Pakistan, and will remain.

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## IceCold

BSF said:


> Does India say that is a Islamist republic republic???
> 
> Now get back to the topic and quit trolling around!


Sorry Kasrkin one last off topic reply but had to reply to this troll.

India calls itself Hindustaan which falls into the same category as calling Pakistan islamic republic secularism is just a cover up for hiding your ture identity. By the way you still havent answered my question which only means that you are the one whos trolling around here and keep on repeating the same vague argument in different threads. Now lay off.


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## skeptic9

official name of India is _Bharat_ not Hindustan which is an urdu word and is used in India as urdu is also one of the recognized languages.


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## afriend

IceCold said:


> Sorry Kasrkin one last off topic reply but had to reply to this troll.
> 
> India calls itself Hindustaan which falls into the same category as calling Pakistan islamic republic secularism is just a cover up for hiding your ture identity. By the way you still havent answered my question which only means that you are the one whos trolling around here and keep on repeating the same vague argument in different threads. Now lay off.



I have heard India being called, bharat, Hindustan in this forum, but during the interaction with many people across India, the most commonly used word is still India. And almost 100&#37; of people in south India call ourselves Indians but again we don't mind calling ourselves Hindustanis either because it doesn't make any difference to the secular nature of india. And this is just for your information, and i know that this not the thread 'Kaskrin', but you really need to clear perspectives right.. hence this post... ok then now..continue..


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## Kasrkin

I thought I made myself clear afriend, if I elaborate or post reports to clear your doubts then it would be against the nature of the thread. I'm trying to discourage that direction and you can stop posting if you don&#8217;t agree. A lot of people here have crossed the line, calling Pakistanis 'kafir' Muslims because we're not condemning the Chinese government over some ethnic unrest in one of its provinces. Indians have a lot of freedom here and we pride ourselves on that, but this is still a Pakistani forum. We won&#8217;t allow for your resentment and insecurity about the China-Pakistan alliance leak out onto this thread. Feel free to discuss things in the larger context of the Muslim World but keep in mind the ground rules I lay down. *And no more bickering.*


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## afriend

Kasrkin said:


> I thought I made myself clear afriend, if I elaborate or post reports to clear your doubts then it would be against the nature of the thread. I'm trying to discourage that direction and you can stop posting if you don&#8217;t agree. A lot of people here have crossed the line, calling Pakistanis 'kafir' Muslims because we're not condemning the Chinese government over some ethnic unrest in one of its provinces. Indians have a lot of freedom here and we pride ourselves on that, but this is still a Pakistani forum. We won&#8217;t allow for your resentment and insecurity about the China-Pakistan alliance leak out onto this thread. Feel free to discuss things in the larger context of the Muslim World but keep in mind the ground rules I lay down. *And no more bickering.*


Kaskrin, I posted the above post, to just clear 'A' perspective one of my pakistani friends have. And i believe its no way derogatory or against the spirit of the forum, but yes it may be off topic. So if you feel that an off topic post demands banning you can go ahead, but i am not here for mudslinging, but i am here just to get a perspective and clear some perspective... if possible..!!!! Good day brother..!!!


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## s90

*Most of Xinjiang dead 'Chinese' *

Some three-quarters of the victims of the violence in China's western Xinjiang region were ethnic Han Chinese, the official death toll shows.

Of 184 people known to have died, *137 were Han Chinese, 46 were from the indigenous Uighur community and one was an ethnic Hui*, local officials said. 

Beijing flooded the regional capital Urumqi with security forces to stem the violence which erupted last Sunday. 

Correspondents say some Uighurs believe their own death toll was much higher. 

"I've heard that more than 100 Uighurs have died but nobody wants to talk about it in public," one Uighur man in Urumqi who did not want to give his name told the Associated Press news agency. 

Uighurs living in exile outside China have also disputed the Chinese figures. Rebiya Kadeer, the US-based head of the World Uighur Congress, said she believed about 500 people had died. 

According to the Chinese death toll released by state media, 26 of the 137 Han Chinese victims were female, while all but one of the 45 Uighurs killed were male. 

The single death recorded in the Hui community, which is similar to the Uighurs ethnically and religiously, was that of a male. 

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Most of Xinjiang dead 'Chinese'


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## afriend

and yes i dont consider pakistanis kafir, and if you can check, i have reported his posts to moderators... belonging to my country is not the criteria, but being civil is.


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## DarkStar

s90 said:


> *Most of Xinjiang dead 'Chinese' *
> 
> Some three-quarters of the victims of the violence in China's western Xinjiang region were ethnic Han Chinese, the official death toll shows.
> 
> Of 184 people known to have died, *137 were Han Chinese, 46 were from the indigenous Uighur community and one was an ethnic Hui*, local officials said.
> 
> Beijing flooded the regional capital Urumqi with security forces to stem the violence which erupted last Sunday.
> 
> Correspondents say some Uighurs believe their own death toll was much higher.
> 
> "I've heard that more than 100 Uighurs have died but nobody wants to talk about it in public," one Uighur man in Urumqi who did not want to give his name told the Associated Press news agency.
> 
> Uighurs living in exile outside China have also disputed the Chinese figures. Rebiya Kadeer, the US-based head of the World Uighur Congress, said she believed about 500 people had died.
> 
> According to the Chinese death toll released by state media, 26 of the 137 Han Chinese victims were female, while all but one of the 45 Uighurs killed were male.
> 
> The single death recorded in the Hui community, which is similar to the Uighurs ethnically and religiously, was that of a male.
> 
> BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Most of Xinjiang dead 'Chinese'



These figures must be taken with a pinch of salt. There are reports, also on teh bbc news website, which put the figures much higher, and the proportion of uighurs killed at 90 percent.

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## s90

DarkStar said:


> These figures must be taken with a pinch of salt. There are reports, also on teh bbc news website, which put the figures much higher, and the proportion of uighurs killed at 90 percent.



The videos and pictures we saw of mostly dead were of Han Chinese and international media was their also,so u still think uighurs were more?


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## gpit

A1Kaid said:


> Now the question is how did China acquire "Xinjiang" which means "New Territory" or "New Frontier"? How did China acquire how did China get a hold of this Turkic-Muslim land of East Turkistan. The answer can be traced backed to 1946 when the Chinese PLA pursuing it's national expansionist policy under Mao Zedong invaded the independent East Turkistan nation, defeated the Turkic forces their, sacked the National assembly, and occupied the land.



To anti-CPC doesn't mean to twist history. Otherwise, people will cast suspicious eyes on your claim, will question your motivation behind, and, to the least, your seriousness or capability of tackling particular topic.

Xinjiang is named by Qing Dynasty of Manchurians (nowadays Man ethnic minority) in 18th century after them finished warlords there.



> The known history of Xinjiang dates back to the 2nd millennium BC. Throughout history many empires have controlled some or all of this vast area, including the Xiongnu, Han, G&#246;kt&#252;rks, Tang, Turkic Uyghurs, and Mongols. *The region was conquered by the Qing Dynasty in 1759, who subsequently named the area Xinjiang* (&#26032;&#30086;, meaning "new frontier"). Since 1949 Xinjiang has been part of the People's Republic of China.
> 
> History of Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The flaw in this quotation is that KMT's ROC also controlled it as its province. That is a more complete truth.

This is how PRC controls Xinjiang.

I totally agree with what you perhaps implied that had the Uighurs more united among themselves, had they had more advanced system and stronger army... they would have got their own state.



> Nobody is encouraging terrorism, but what is absurd is t...



To promote human rights and social equality doesn't means to twist history.

BTW, I have no slightest doubt that if one day China becomes weak and disintegrated, ET may well be a country.

*Are you willing to join ET now and fight China to weaken it?*


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## waraich66

DarkStar said:


> Personally, I feel sometimes it is only a friend that can tell another friend a harsh truth, that one does not want to hear.
> 
> What better friend than Pakistan to do so?
> 
> But we are a Nation indebted to others, whether USA, China or Saudi/Gulf. How many years did it take us to raise the issue of child camel jockeys? Even then it was raised by Ansar Burney in a private capacity.
> 
> East Turkestan has as much right to freedom as Kashmir, even more so.
> 
> We can, in all civlity, agree to disagree with the Chinese regarding this issue. Yet do we have the mettle for it? Probably NOT.
> 
> We should, however, put the Turkish criticism in context. When was the last time that we heard Turkey speaking about atrocities of the Bharati forces in Kashmir? I certainly haven't.
> 
> Turks, even the JamateIslami inspired govt., are ultra nationalists and always speak up for other turks, or those they perceive to be so. The Uighurs are Turks, and the area they inhabit today Xinjiang/East Turkestan forms part of the original homeland of the Turks, so their outburst must be seen through the paradigm of their national consciousness
> 
> They are no bleeding hearts.



I dont agree with your argument , recently during Gaza war Turky was the only muslim country who openly critise the Israel.

Pakistan government should be ashamed for neutral attitude.

All muslim countries should ban the chinies product and suspend their relationships with China.

I think economics is best weapon to bring the aggressor on right course.


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## ARSENAL6

gpit said:


> What a freaking BS!
> 
> East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) was declared a terrorist organisation by United Nations in 2002.
> 
> Terrorism Zindabad!



??????????

The US invades Iraq Israel bombs Lebanon killing more civillians all against UN resolutions or protocol.

Who listerns to the UN seriously ?



gpit said:


> Terrorism Zindabad!


No No don't jinx it otherwise there might be another attck on US soil

Some people !


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## ARSENAL6

What I don't understand is, China is a great Ally to Pakistan of its entire existence (Pakistan existance). If they are going against them whose gonna be Pakistans friend then ?

US 
Middle East
Iran
Russia
South America
Europe
Australia
India
Israel

Let me remind you Pakistan has more enemies than it has trustworthy friends
How is it so hard to comprehend, Pakistan being a Muslim nation, China a great ally can help the Chinese to resolve it peacefully 

I do also think the western media has played with some people here just how they played around with Iran. Its there game to demoralise a country that seem to be a threat.


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## dabong1

skeptic9 said:


> Don't try to compare the Chinese human farm to any other countries.



Your right.....china has nowhere near the same amount of slums as india.



skeptic9 said:


> Unlike China where gvt. is importing Hans in large numbers to skew the natural demographics is exactly opposite of India's policies in Kashmir. Nobody from other state can make permanent residence inside Kashmir under the Indian constitution. India wants a Kashmir of the Kashmiris but inside the framework of Indian constitution. Chinese Hans are occupying Xinjiang with their civilian invasion. I know Xinjiang is very developed as compared to Kashmir, BUT I also know that all those big industries, apartments and roads are serving the Hans, not the local Uighurs. Uighurs hardly get any jobs in thier own motherland and their rights are trampled by the Hans. Chinese = Hans. I don't think any other ethenic group gets any reasonable share of China's economic development. And that's the truth in Tibet too...where Tibetans can't even worship and Hans harvest their natural resources and lands.



How has every tom dick and indian has become an expert on the han chinese?

Your just parroting western-indian rubbish with no knowledge on the subject......have u ever met a chinese muslim?

By the way pakistan kashmir has the same restriction......non state subjects can not buy land in azad kashmir.


AND..



skeptic9 said:


> Massacre in an ethnic conflict is N0T comparable to *massacre as a state policy*. In China the later is true.



So the thousand and thousand killed and raped by the indian army is the same as a dayfull of riot in one chinese city where the majority of the dead where non muslims......


----------



## dabong1

BSF said:


> Sorry for being naive but i fail to see the difference.
> 
> So if tomorrow the UN passed a resolution saying XingJang province is disputed will you then support the Ughirs ?
> But untill then you will not support them!
> 
> Is that what you are saying ?



The same way if the UN passed a vote and said Arunachal Pradesh, Nagaland, Manipur, Mizoram, Tripura, Meghalaya, and Assam where disputed we woulsd support the UN but up until then shall we call it indians internal affair.


----------



## gpit

A1Kaid said:


> Now I want to get to the meat of your argument as this is the most appetizing part of the debate.
> ....



If this is the quality of your research, with due respect, you need be more serious in order to gain a footage in any academia of any sort.

Let me quote the same source that you quote, but more completely:


> Xiongnu raids continued periodically in the subsequent period, but all references to the tribe disappear after the 5th century. The dominant nomad people in the Mongolian steppe in the 7th century, the Tujue, were identified with the Turks and claimed to be descended from the Xiongnu. A number of Xiongnu customs do suggest Turkish affinity, which has led some historians to suggest that the western Xiongnu may have been the ancestors of the European Turks of later centuries. Others believe that the Xiongnu are the Huns, who invaded the Roman Empire in the 5th century. *Though possible, this view cannot be substantiated.* The graves of several chanyu (Xiongnu chiefs) excavated in the Selenga River valley in southern Siberia have been found to contain remains of Chinese, Iranian, and Greek textiles, indicating a wide trade between the Xiongnu and distant peoples.
> Xiongnu (people) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia



BTW, Chanyu is also a generic name like &#8220;official&#8221; or &#8220;officer&#8221; in Xiongnu system. There are high level Chanyus and low level Chanyus.

In your article, you imply that Uighurs are Xiongnu in some sense, that is wrong, at least not quite correct. You further deduce that Xiongnu&#8217;s land is Uighur&#8217;s land. That is even more ridiculous.

1.	What is Xiongnu? 
Xiongnu (or Hsiung-nu) was a derogatory name (I believe, as Chinese characters are in most cases pictographic) coined by the ancient Chinese, literally meaning &#8220;ferocious slaves&#8221;. *This is a generic name that contains a collection of nomadic tribes with many different races and locations* in north and northwest of ancient China. For instance, in the Western Zhou(&#21608 period(about 1046B.C.-771B.C.) Xiongnu was also called Hunyi(&#28151;&#22839, meaning &#8220;*mixed barbarians*&#8221;. (Note that, this is only a simplified translation. Ancient Chinese called &#8220;Barbarians&#8221; with many different names based on their locations, etc.)

Westerner thus said:


> *Origin*
> The Xiongnu Tribes or the Xiongnu People (old: Hsiung-nu) are often identified with the Huns that invaded Europe in the 4th century and with the White Huns (Hephthalites) that invaded northeastern India. Although there might be similarities in the name of these two people,* it must be considered that the name of a mighty nomad tribe (Mongols, Tartars) was often used for very different ethnic people*. Pulleyblank has shown that the language of the Xiongnu - of which we possess some words and terms preserved in Chinese literature - was related to the Siberian ethnics (Samoyeds) in the River Yennisej area, and not to the Mongols or Turks, while the Hun hords of Attila that tried to conquer Europe were surely Proto-Turks. The own name of the Xiongnu might have been Hungnor or Hunoch, a word that Chinese people could neither pronounce nor write and hence created the Chinese word Hungnu (modern pronunciation [&#231;jv&#331;nu], Wade-Giles: Hsiung-nu). The syllable "hu" like in Hu &#32993; is often used for barbarian, i.e. non-Chinese people.
> Chinese History - The Xiongnu (www.chinaknowledge.org)



*Part of Xiongnu actually assimilated themselves into Chinese*. According to your logic, the Chinese at least have equal rights to ET. 

A typical such example is &#21016;&#28170; (Liu Yuan, ?-310 AD) whose ancestors were awarded Chinese emperor&#8217;s surname Liu and belonged to South Xiongnu (in contrast to North Xiongnu at that time). 308 AD,(304 in some articles) Liu Yuan established a small state also called Han, because he believed he inherited from already finished Han Dynasty. It was just one of 16 states during the Age of Fragmentation and vanished later in China. 

2.	Relationship between Xiongnu and Uighur, and the formation of Uighur.
There is some indication that Uighur ancestors are a mixture of many tribes, some of these may belong to Xiongnu. It is illogical to say that Uighur is the only descendant of Xiongnu,or Uighur is ancient Xiongnu, as Xiongnu is a collection of tribes. If so, by above facts (emperor Liu Yuan of South Xiongnu), modern Chinese are also decedents of Xiongnu and is legitimate owner of Xinjiang. lol

The below quote is a true reflection of history as to when Uighur is actually formed as a national.


> In the Age of Fragmentation, the Uyghur were not known as a separate group, merely as one of the 15 tribes of the Tiele. After the rise of the Tujue (Turkut), the Tiele became their subjects. In 742 (during the Tianbao reign of the Tang dynasty), the Uyghur (then known as the Huihe &#22238;&#32421 rose up, vanquished the Turkut and conquered their lands. In 788, they changed their name to Huigu or Huihu &#22238;&#40536;.
> Ethnic origins of Uygurs/Uyghurs/Uigurs, etc. - China History Forum, Chinese History Forum



BTW, please don&#8217;t mix Xiongnu with Tujue (Turkut).


This is what an anti-communist ET website has to say


> The Uighurs is one of the ancient Turkic peoples. They settled on territory of Eastern Turkestan (at present Xinjiang-Uighur Autonomous Region of Peoples Republic of China), and of present Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan long time ago. Nowadays the population of the Uighurs is about 8-10 millions. The Uighur language belongs to the Qarluq group of the Turkic languages. There are 3 stages in history of the Uighur language:
> 1.	The Ancient stage consisting of 2 periods: *the Most Ancient (up to the 5th century AD)* and the Ancient (the 6-11th centuries) ones;
> 2.	The Medieval stage breaking up for 2 periods: the Early Medieval (the 11-14th centuries) and the Medieval (the 14-18 th centuries) ones;
> 3.	The Modern stage divided into the New (the 18-19th centuries) and the Newest (the 20th centuries) ones.
> At various stages of historical evolution the Uighurs created a number of states. The First Uighur Qaghanat was established in Khanghaj in 323. It existed 200 years. The Second Uighur Qaghanat was founded in 523 and existed 80 years. It was destroyed by the Turkic Qaghanat in 603. In 743 the Third Uighur Qaghanat was built on the ashes of the Eastern-Turkic Qaghanat located on territory of the present Northern Mongolia. It was ruined in struggle with the ancient Khaqases in 840. The Third Uighur Qaghanat was a feudal state with the tribal vestiges.
> The Uighurs / History



According to this, their national history can mostly be traced back to 5AD.

In comparison, this is the maps of Chinese sphere of control in Northwest during that time before the formation of Uighur(206BC - 8AD).




BTW, recent discovery of an ancient mummies in Xinjiang (The Mummies of Xinjiang | Archaeology | DISCOVER Magazine ) inadvertently antagonizes some people, because it proves further that Uighurs are not the only native to this land.

BTW again, Chinese history is not and can not be monopolized by Chinese government and parties of any sorts. This history is a result of all scholars with various political backgrounds from across the world, and is backed up by hard evidences and proofs, of course with many questions still remain unanswered. Please point out which source I quoted was from Chinese government that is in contradiction to academic research. Will quotes from terrorist ETIM web site make you feel much happier?

BTW thrice, if twisting history is because Uighurs are Muslims, that is what people call &#8220;religious extremist&#8221;. In China, Muslims live and do business all over the places. Chinese citizens, regardless of their believes, can call anywhere in China their home.

Let's promote human rights and social equality in Xinjiang together, and stop doing anything counter-productive!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gpit

By Chris Buckley Chris Buckley  Sat Jul 11, 11:36 am ET

URUMQI, China (Reuters)  China raised the death toll from ethnic rioting in Xinjiang, giving for the first time the ethnicity of the dead, and a big security presence in the city at the center of the strife prevented protests on Saturday.

The official Xinhua news agency said 184 people had died in the July 5 riots in Urumqi, the Xinjiang regional capital, and *137 of those killed were Han* Chinese, who form the majority of China's 1.3 billion population. The previous death toll was 156.

The latest figure included *46 Uighurs*, the largely Muslim people of Xinjiang who share cultural bonds with Central Asian peoples. All but one were men. Uighurs, once a sizeable majority in Xinjiang, now make up 46 percent of its 21.3 million people, according to government statistics.

Xinhua said the other person killed in the attacks that erupted last weekend was *a member of the Hui ethnic group, *which is Muslim but culturally akin to Han Chinese.

The brief report did not say whether any of the dead were killed by security forces.

The reaction on Urumqi streets to the official death toll reflected the deepening ethnic divide in Xinjiang, with Uighurs expressing disbelief in the number.

"That's the Han people's number. We have our own number," said Akumjia, a Uighur resident, as he eyed security forces who had cordoned off a street where there was an outburst of protest near a mosque and then arrests on Friday. A security forces helicopter buzzed overhead.

"Maybe many, many more Uighurs died. The police were scared and lost control."

Close to where he stood, what appeared to be a spray of bullet holes could be seen on the glass front of a Bank of China office. There were no bullets among the shards. The government has not said what kind of forces suppressed the bloody rioting. Many Uighur residents say they heard or saw gunfire.

Chinese authorities had delayed releasing the ethnic breakdown of the dead, possibly out of concern it would further inflame the situation.

Several Han Chinese residents said distrust of Uighurs was likely to persist.

"Uighurs also died ... But then they blame Han for being so angry about the killing and looting," said Zhao Hong, a Han resident who said she saw some of the bloodshed from her home window before hiding.

"BATTLE TO PROTECT STABILITY"

Beijing does not want to lose its grip on the vast territory that borders Russia, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, has abundant oil reserves and is China's largest natural gas-producing region.

Zhou Yongkang, the top domestic security official in China's ruling Communist Party, said the country now had to "vigorously prosecute this tough battle to protect stability in Xinjiang," the Xinjiang Daily reported on Saturday.

Human Rights Watch said that the government had deployed some 20,000 troops in Urumqi since the July 5 riots, which broke out after security forces broke up a protest over the deaths of Uighur workers in southern China.

The show of force appears to be preventing fresh unrest, and the police have issued a ban on protests and "illegal assembly," Xinhua said.

"Police will disperse such illegal assemblies according to the law and are entitled to take necessary means if the crowd refuses to disperse," the report said, without elaborating.

Parts of Urumqi remain tense, especially Uighur neighborhoods, and thousands of troops and police are on guard. There was a brief demonstration on Friday, the main Muslim day of prayer, after some mosques were opened briefly.

On Saturday, anti-riot troops again kept a close watch on Uighur residents, and loudspeakers on vehicles blasted orders that Uighurs should stay at home and accept the government's line on the unrest. There were no public protests.

Security chief Zhou Yongkang continued his tour of Xinjiang. State television showed him in Kashgar, a restive city in the region's south, inspecting riot police.

The show of force is likely to prove popular with most Han Chinese, including those in Xinjiang, who believe their government has done much to help Uighurs.

But a few dissenters have issued an online petition urging the government to rethink its policies and to shift from taking some steps to help minorities to giving full rights to all.

A statement (????? | Truth and Reconciliation) said the petition was launched by three Chinese nationals, one a Uighur.

(Additional reporting by Ben Blanchard in Shanghai; editing by Michael Roddy)

China raises Xinjiang death toll, adds ethnic detail - Yahoo! News


----------



## vandemataram

third eye said:


> The larger issue that comes to mind is the Ummah ?
> 
> Why is it applied selectively ? It should be all or nothing. If Muslims in any other part of the world were denied friday prayers there would have been an outcry world wide of denial of religious rights....silence here.
> 
> Compare this with the Burka issue in france do we see double standards ?



Yes...I think by far this is most difficult to answer for a person/s who are rational...though expecting one...


----------



## vandemataram

IceCold said:


> Yes however the reason is not double standards rather politics. The concept of Ummah is long lost, policies are driven by politics. Welcome to the real world.



Zaid Hamid thrives on that ..the concept of Ummah...If it is long dead why are you so itchy about the "mistreatment and killing" of Muslims in Kashmir or say a Godhra riot? 

And aprt from him ..there are scores of other people who swear by it...who believe in it...the Caliphate .....whose turn has come >...

How do you deny it? From Indonesia to West Africa....the concept of Ummat e Muslima runs strong....

Is there a doubt about it ?

"Selective perception" is an appropriate term to describe this.


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## vandemataram

Patriot said:


> We should support CCP stand on this issue.As far as morality is concerned give me a break..how many times we supported insurgencies in other countries which caused a lot of bloodshed?We Pakistanis have a holier then thou attitude..Have Pakistanis ever spoken about Balochis like this who have been suffering from several years.



Oh....are you not a Pakistani..dont you know what is happening in Kashmir ? 

I am amazed that till this day you have nt raised your voice....


----------



## vandemataram

DarkStar said:


> Uighurs suffer from systematic oppression, and a land grab. Xinjiang is not China, it is annexed territory.
> 
> Are you saying all uighurs are terrorists? That seems a bit harsh.
> 
> As for uighurs killing Han Chinese, I'd take hte official figures with a pinch of salt. In most previous rioting, years back, 90 percent of the victims were Uighurs themselves, and this time it is no different either. Chinese officials have decided to misrepresent the true number of Uighurs killed. It beggars belief that Uighurs could have invaded the city center from the suburbs, and then kill so many Hans within such a militarised/securatised city.



This is much saner than the other esponses floating around here....I ask to the Chinese...

What is this policy of Incentivised immigration to ethnically weaker aeas to chane the demographics for once and for all?

You have done it in TAR and this Xinjiang....

I am just amazed how do you brainwash millions of peoplke to believe what you are saying?

And how much do you pay these people for uprooting their houses ? 

And how much did you pay to uproot people from thier homes to ostensibly build infrastructure for the 2008 Olympics...

These are good to know things...and amazing too


----------



## vandemataram

BSF said:


> You might want to add the date when you post such manipulative threads
> *Mon. Nov. 27, 2006*



True to his words BSF ....


----------



## vandemataram

dabong1 said:


> The same way if the UN passed a vote and said Arunachal Pradesh, Nagaland, Manipur, Mizoram, Tripura, Meghalaya, and Assam where disputed we woulsd support the UN but up until then shall we call it indians internal affair.



Give them to the Chinese....and let them handles the Nagas, Mizos, Tripuris, NDDB etc, on thier own ...

Just like the way they are handling the Uighurs.....Cheers...


----------



## Kasrkin

afriend said:


> and yes i dont consider pakistanis kafir, and if you can check, i have reported his posts to moderators... belonging to my country is not the criteria, but being civil is.



And I appreciate that. BTW you can settle whatever issue you have with that member through PM if he doesn't mind.


----------



## kvLin

By Malcolm Moore

Malcolm Moore is the Telegraph's Shanghai Correspondent. He arrived in China in July 2008 after three years in Italy as the Telegraph's Rome Correspondent. Before that, he was the paper's Economics Correspondent.


Yesterday, I was able to use Twitter to relay real-time information from Peter Foster in Urumqi about the race riots which have claimed 156 lives.

Today, nothing works. Peter is not able to receive calls or text messages. My Twitter account has been blocked, even while using the virtual private networks (VPN) that help me skip past the Chinese censors. Twitter remains blocked in general in China, but others seem to be able to access it with their VPN. I guess the problem is just with me.

The situation remains tense in Urumqi, and Hu Jintao has had to fly home to deal with the issue. No one else has enough authority to impose himself above Wang Lequan, the powerful party secretary of the region and member of the politburo. Wang&#8217;s days appear numbered, however - the events in Urumqi may well compromise his reelection to the standing committee. It will be interesting to see if Hu flies directly to Urumqi.

Turning over the riots in my mind, I concede I was wrong in my last post to suggest that Rebiya Kadeer would rise in stature as a result of the riots.

When I wrote the post, I had limited information and I jumped to the conclusion that the 156 victims of Sunday&#8217;s violence were Uighur.

In fact, it appears that the majority of the victims were Han Chinese, brutally killed by gangs of Uighurs roaming through the back streets of Urumqi. There are some horrific pictures circulating of rows of bloodied bodies and cyclists lying in puddles of blood with their heads bashed in.

I apologise for running ahead of the facts, but the idea that Chinese troops had been unable to prevent the Uighurs from murdering Han Chinese honestly never occurred to me.

Now that the sequence of events is clearer, I have a lot of praise for the Chinese security operation in the city. According to Peter Foster, who is on the scene, they managed to prevent escalating situations getting out of hand several times yesterday with calm and judicious policing.

In addition, allowing journalists to circulate and protecting them from the crowd has clearly paid dividends. Rebiya Kadeer&#8217;s claims that 400 Uighurs were killed on Sunday were dismissed by my colleagues on the ground, who have neither seen nor heard any evidence to back up her accusation.

I would encourage the authorities to stop censoring the internet now. Allowing information to circulate does not lead to greater instability - this unrest has shown that the wild rumours that develop when news is suppressed can be incredibly explosive.

My feeling is that the Han Chinese, now that they have marched and let off some steam, are unlikely to assemble in large numbers again. An enormous security operation should succeed in preventing any more chaos. But the long-term picture is still troublesome. How will the Uighurs and the Han Chinese resolve their differences?

The Chinese authorities have taken the first step, arresting 13 people in Guangdong in connection with the factory killings which proved the catalyst for the riots. But that&#8217;s unlikely to satisfy the Uighur population, which has been fed ugly and wild rumours of mass rapes and butchery.

In addition, China&#8217;s refusal to admit that Uighurs have a legitimate complaint - that they are economically disenfranchised and discriminated against - will hinder any reconciliation.

The Chinese believe that Uighurs get an easy ride from police and are allowed to get away with petty crime. They also worry about policies that allow Uighurs to carry knives and threaten hardworking Han Chinese. This needs to change. Uighurs and other ethnic minorities should be subject to the same laws as everyone else in China.

However, the complaints of the Uighurs are far more serious. They are restricted from worshipping freely, from free movement (their passports are often held by the police and visas are difficult to obtain) and they are clearly not benefitting from the economic prosperity of their province.

When I was last in Kashgar, last year, I asked a former colleague who has since departed China, what the fundamental problem between Han Chinese and Uighurs was. &#8220;There&#8217;s a total lack of respect for Uighurs,&#8221; was his reply. It is difficult to imagine that there will be a change, and the hatred on both sides will run deep in Urumqi long after security is re-imposed.

China may even be succeeding in turning the Muslim Uighurs, who have traditionally been enamoured with Western values and culture, towards the anger and disenfranchisement felt by the fundamentalists just over the border in Pakistan and Afghanistan. These riots have been a watershed moment for Han and Uighur relations, and I fear that more trouble lies ahead.




http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/malcolmmoore/100002509/urumqi-riots-signal-dark-days-ahead/


----------



## muse

Some Indian members and our own Islamist 5th column have made common cause and have found opportunity in these tragic events to malign and little else and it's too bad that the forum has allowed itself to be used in this way.

Thread after thread repeating the same thing, responsible members are dismayed, after all, who is served by this maligning?? Will China be served will Uighurs be served ?? Will Pakistan be served? Who then benfits?? 

Some say it is "freedom of speech" - good, but why does this forum imagine that it must serve as a mouth piece of those who use an idea such as freedom of speech to malign, confuse and to promote ideas associated with those who use terror as a tactic in the name of their ideology of using religion as a political tool.


----------



## applesauce

1. not saying we should trust PRC's reports of the race of the people killed but does that necessarily mean it is mostly uighurs killed? it is accept by western media the most of the people killed are han and hui

2. aside from religious situation(allow as long as it is inline with government rules) the people(minorities) are known to have more freedom than the han people, ie: no one child laws, extra school points, quotas of various sorts. 

3. i believe this protest is based not on religion(this specific case) but on the fact that han people are moving into former Uighur majority areas. the native people have the option of separate school only in their languege, now they complain that job are being taken away and that the economic expansion is no at all benifitting their peoples, i see severals points to this. the standard languege of china, used in business and politics is mandarin when you go to a school that teaches in another languege of course you cannot expect to go far in sociaty.

for other stuff:

now then i agree religiously things are all that free
also as far as "not supporting what is wrong"
this is a riot, people, human beings died, those that had nothing to do with current event only in the wrong time at the wrong place died. what should the police have done?, not crack on down the killers?

as for "What suddenly all the Ughirs are not Muslims anymore ?"

they are muslims, so are the hui that dies and those that are dying in iraq, Afghanistan, bin ladin is muslim, so's the insurgents Pakistan is facing

"China might be a good friend to the Pakistani government, but that should'nt stop the average pakistani from expressing concern about this issue as a human if not as a muslim."

agreed 



DarkStar said:


> Uighurs suffer from systematic oppression, and a land grab. Xinjiang is not China, it is annexed territory.
> 
> Are you saying all uighurs are terrorists? That seems a bit harsh.
> 
> As for uighurs killing Han Chinese, I'd take hte official figures with a pinch of salt. In most previous rioting, years back, 90 percent of the victims were Uighurs themselves, and this time it is no different either. Chinese officials have decided to misrepresent the true number of Uighurs killed. It beggars belief that Uighurs could have invaded the city center from the suburbs, and then kill so many Hans within such a militarised/securatised city.



Xinjiang is China, look it up, it was lost then regained
and sure in the past something happen so it MUST be the same now

"It beggars belief that Uighurs could have invaded the city center from the suburbs, and then kill so many Hans within such a militarised/securatised city"

1. in riot and protests past the capital was always quite
2.yes it beggars the belief, also a reason why there as a han counter protest they say its no longer in the govrnments hand(or something along those lines) 




vandemataram said:


> This is much saner than the other esponses floating around here....I ask to the Chinese...
> 
> What is this policy of Incentivised immigration to ethnically weaker aeas to chane the demographics for once and for all?
> 
> You have done it in TAR and this Xinjiang....
> 
> I am just amazed how do you brainwash millions of peoplke to believe what you are saying?
> 
> And how much do you pay these people for uprooting their houses ?
> 
> And how much did you pay to uproot people from thier homes to ostensibly build infrastructure for the 2008 Olympics...
> 
> These are good to know things...and amazing too



1. its the policy of go west
2. the govenment gives incentives to go west and people hear from their friends about the economic opportunities the government is opening up there. the opportunity is real no brainwashing required.

3. depends on the value of the house, there are 3 choices generally, either to pay you what they think the values of the house is, you choose a apartment/house to rent the government pays for the rent the rest of your life, you are given another house/place to live in that you will own. i agree sometime the deal is crap but all in the name of development. my old house was demolished i didnt like it but whatever.

3. as for the Olympics most of the are torn down was the old style neighborhoods other-wise same as above 


lastly as for the "islamic brotherhood" this is just talk when was the last time they all banded together and taken on an enermy and won?
on the thought of all muslim nations dropping relations with china... sigh...international politics and far more complicated then being simply based on religion


----------



## applesauce

sigh..... china fears... blab.blab.blab. no nation in the world can say that XingJang is not a part of china. the Uighurs live there yes its true.... but to claim the area rightfully belongs to them is wishful thinking at best, i agree with some that in the future should the power of the central government weaken then we could see some independence movement succeed, but then again that wouldnt be unheard of, it has happen in the past (think ancient history and what not). now then as some had mentioned the uighurs were never there before the han peoples there is substantial proof to this and china being the oldest continuously civilization on earth does indeed has claims to the area no one can deny, in any map in the west you can see the rules of past chinese empires extending to that area. 

on a more political note the area has lots of oil and other resources, the central government will NEVER let it go


----------



## quriosity

applesauce said:


> 1. not saying we should trust PRC's reports of the race of the people killed but does that necessarily mean it is mostly uighurs killed? it is accept by western media the most of the people killed are han and hui
> 
> 2. aside from religious situation(allow as long as it is inline with government rules) the people(minorities) are known to have more freedom than the han people, ie: no one child laws, extra school points, quotas of various sorts.
> 
> 3. i believe this protest is based not on religion(this specific case) but on the fact that han people are moving into former Uighur majority areas. the native people have the option of separate school only in their languege, now they complain that job are being taken away and that the economic expansion is no at all benifitting their peoples, i see severals points to this. the standard languege of china, used in business and politics is mandarin when you go to a school that teaches in another languege of course you cannot expect to go far in sociaty.
> 
> for other stuff:
> 
> now then i agree religiously things are all that free
> also as far as "not supporting what is wrong"
> this is a riot, people, human beings died, those that had nothing to do with current event only in the wrong time at the wrong place died. what should the police have done?, not crack on down the killers?
> 
> as for "What suddenly all the Ughirs are not Muslims anymore ?"
> 
> they are muslims, so are the hui that dies and those that are dying in iraq, Afghanistan, bin ladin is muslim, so's the insurgents Pakistan is facing
> 
> "China might be a good friend to the Pakistani government, but that should'nt stop the average pakistani from expressing concern about this issue as a human if not as a muslim."
> 
> agreed
> 
> 
> 
> Xinjiang is China, look it up, it was lost then regained
> and sure in the past something happen so it MUST be the same now
> 
> "It beggars belief that Uighurs could have invaded the city center from the suburbs, and then kill so many Hans within such a militarised/securatised city"
> 
> 1. in riot and protests past the capital was always quite
> 2.yes it beggars the belief, also a reason why there as a han counter protest they say its no longer in the govrnments hand(or something along those lines)
> 
> 
> 1. its the policy of go west
> 2. the govenment gives incentives to go west and people hear from their friends about the economic opportunities the government is opening up there. the opportunity is real no brainwashing required.
> 
> 3. depends on the value of the house, there are 3 choices generally, either to pay you what they think the values of the house is, you choose a apartment/house to rent the government pays for the rent the rest of your life, you are given another house/place to live in that you will own. i agree sometime the deal is crap but all in the name of development. my old house was demolished i didnt like it but whatever.
> 
> 3. as for the Olympics most of the are torn down was the old style neighborhoods other-wise same as above
> 
> 
> lastly as for the "islamic brotherhood" this is just talk when was the last time they all banded together and taken on an enermy and won?
> on the thought of all muslim nations dropping relations with china... sigh...international politics and far more complicated then being simply based on religion



ohhhh.... please stop thinking it was a riot... it was a planned terrorist attack or war on China.... even western media also says this... 

Security chiefs failed to spot signs calling for Uighur revolt - Times Online

From The Sunday Times
July 12, 2009 

*Several days before Uighur demonstrators gathered in the streets of the northwest city of Urumqi last Sunday in a protest that began Chinas bloodiest bout of civil unrest for 20 years, secret signs started appearing in taxi windows.

Local security chiefs missed the signals. The clues were important because they were alerting Uighurs in the capital of Xinjiang province to demonstrate against the Han Chinese.

The signals told the Uighurs to avenge the racially motivated killings of two Uighur migrant workers that had occurred last month in a toy factory in southern Guangdong province, triggered by rumours that they had raped several women. 

As a result the authorities were caught off guard when the protests erupted, amid erroneous stories that the killers of the Uighurs had been allowed to go free. 

The taxi signals suggest that the rioting by the Uighur minority was not entirely spontaneous. Having suppressed the violence by flooding the city with tens of thousands of troops and police, Chinas authorities are hunting for a fringe of extremists who they accuse of organising the rioting. They have promised the ringleaders will be executed. *

Security chiefs failed to spot signs calling for Uighur revolt - Times Online 

Russian ministry has stated russian forces confronted some Uighur terrorists in Central Asia while fighting with Chechen rebels... the Chinese govt is just incompetent and callous... they dont have intelligence... why the police did not open fire when terrorists started killing people..? i thought China has strong military... but now i think... China is weaker than India... If terrorists do such here, our NSG commandos will kill them all....


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## ARSENAL6

DarkStar said:


> These figures must be taken with a pinch of salt. There are reports, also on teh bbc news website, which put the figures much higher, and the proportion of uighurs killed at 90 percent.



THeres is a reason why. Its the same propaganda that they are used against Iran elections.


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## Gabbar

^^^ Thank you for answerin/posting with some logical sense. Many people here get to mud sledging and off topic very easily.


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## A1Kaid

muse said:


> Some Indian members and *our own Islamist 5th column* have made common cause and have found opportunity in these tragic events *to malign* and little else and it's too bad that the forum has allowed itself to be used in this way.
> 
> Thread after thread repeating the same thing, responsible members are dismayed, after all, who is served by this maligning?? Will China be served will Uighurs be served ?? Will Pakistan be served? Who then benfits??
> 
> Some say it is "freedom of speech" - good, but why does this forum imagine that it must serve as a mouth piece of those who use an idea such as freedom of speech to malign, *confuse and to promote ideas associated with those who use terror as a tactic in the name of their ideology of using religion as a political tool.*




Your complaining and moaning is getting old. Your constant rants against sincere and moderate-to-conservative Muslim view points are ridiculous. Your constant suggestion that the other party is always trying to malign is utter alarmist nonsense.


"*our own Islamist 5th column*"

Allow me to inform you, the term "Islamist" was created by Western Think Tanks and Western historical/politics institutions many located in Washington DC, *they created the term "Islamist" to malign *conservative and devout Muslims (esp. after 9/11). The fact that you yourself use this offensive and utterly nonsense and foolish word comes as no surprise. So the next time you use this word "Islamist" think about where it was created, how it was created, and most importantly WHY it was created...




> "opportunity in these tragic events *to malign*"-Muse



Speaking for myself, it is not my intent to malign but to achieve historical integrity and to proclaim and strongly channel a view point and sentiment felt by many Muslims and intellectuals around the world in regards to East Turkistan. I myself do not seek to malign China, as I clearly noted (see below)

"I understand you love your country and wish to protect your country and fight for it's ambitions and unity. Though I must say to my great allies and genuine friends that I have a legitimate concern and disagreement with you on the issue of E. Turkistan or the Chinese name given to it "Xinjiang"......"

I also mentioned

"I would like to reaffirm the Chinese are a special civilization and they are our strategic partners, but unlike some Pakistanis I refuse to put my head in the sand and ignore the East Turkistan issue.

"The Chinese are our time tested friends, and both of our civilizations must discuss this issue. We are both a civilized people and we must discuss and negotiate peacefully, and we must resolve this regional issue. The Turks, Pakistanis, and Chinese must together solve this issue, because the current path is counter-productive to the peace and harmony all of our civilizations wish to pursue."

I have been considerably respectful in my debate.


Now I would like to focus on this part of your rant.



> "must serve as a mouth piece of those who use an idea such as freedom of speech to malign, *confuse and to promote ideas associated with those who use terror as a tactic in the name of their ideology of using religion as a political tool.*"-Muse




To confuse and promote, I understand that challenging and actually doing research about conventional wisdom or things we are told to believe by some governments can be confusing for some, that is there problem and it is likely they are a lost flock of sheep led by their herder.

Speaking for myself, I have not promoted any ideas associated with those who use terror as a tactic. Now another member had made a similar allegation as you have. Below is what I said to him.




> If any Pakistani brother support Free East Turkistan Movement (which is a terrorist movement )then it means he also support Free Balochistan and Free Pakhtunistan Movement and Taliban/AQ Terrorism."-Patriot



"A1Kaid: Nobody is encouraging terrorism, but what is absurd is that you have associated East Turkistan liberation and independence movement with terrorism, such a reductionist mindset is wrong to have. It is not the case I assure you, many Uyghurs are peaceful people but wish to fight for their independence.

Moving onto more serious ideas and thinking."

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/1234-red-chinas-fear-islam-8.html


I refer to this post because I say the same to you.



Just wanted to set the record straight on where I stand in the face of misguided and absurd allegations.

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## Joe Shearer

gpit said:


> How hilarious!
> 
> Dare you say Xinjiang is not a home to Han and other 45 ethnics other than Uighur?
> 
> If you learn the history, Han had entered and settled down in Xinjiang with other ethnics *centuries before *Uighur was formed as an ethnic, and Han stays there with other ethnic groups, albeit smaller in number compared with Uighur.
> 
> Whose home is Xinjiang to? Its the home to all Chinese ethnics living there for centuries!
> 
> Its about social equality that people have to address here, not whose home type of foolish and sinister stuff.



Dear Sir,

Your claim is curious to say the least. Can you provide any sources, including Chinese historican records, that the Han Chinese were settled in this region earlier than the 20th century?

The Uighurs seem to have entered the territory presently named Xinjiang around 600 AD. There was no Chinese presence in these territories until after the Ming Dynasty; Emperor Yong Le is reported to have 'gained influence' over Eastern Turkestan, that is today known as Xinjiang, and his dates are nearly 750 years later.

In subsequent centuries, Chinese traders have been reported in Urumqi and other urban centres. Mass migration of Han Chinese began only after PLA occupation of Xinjiang in 1949.

Earlier events are fully recorded in Chinese records of the times, including the travel memoirs of famous traveller monks. If you are not aware of these records, a list can be provided.

'Joe S.'

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## A1Kaid

gpit said:


> If this is the quality of your research, with due respect, you need be more serious in order to gain a footage in any academia of any sort.
> 
> Let me quote the same source that you quote, but more completely:
> 
> 
> BTW, Chanyu is also a generic name like &#8220;official&#8221; or &#8220;officer&#8221; in Xiongnu system. There are high level Chanyus and low level Chanyus.
> 
> In your article, you imply that Uighurs are Xiongnu in some sense, that is wrong, at least not quite correct. You further deduce that Xiongnu&#8217;s land is Uighur&#8217;s land. That is even more ridiculous.
> 
> 1.	What is Xiongnu?
> Xiongnu (or Hsiung-nu) was a derogatory name (I believe, as Chinese characters are in most cases pictographic) coined by the ancient Chinese, literally meaning &#8220;ferocious slaves&#8221;. *This is a generic name that contains a collection of nomadic tribes with many different races and locations* in north and northwest of ancient China. For instance, in the Western Zhou(&#21608 period(about 1046B.C.-771B.C.) Xiongnu was also called Hunyi(&#28151;&#22839, meaning &#8220;*mixed barbarians*&#8221;. (Note that, this is only a simplified translation. Ancient Chinese called &#8220;Barbarians&#8221; with many different names based on their locations, etc.)
> 
> Westerner thus said:
> 
> 
> *Part of Xiongnu actually assimilated themselves into Chinese*. According to your logic, the Chinese at least have equal rights to ET.
> 
> A typical such example is &#21016;&#28170; (Liu Yuan, ?-310 AD) whose ancestors were awarded Chinese emperor&#8217;s surname Liu and belonged to South Xiongnu (in contrast to North Xiongnu at that time). 308 AD,(304 in some articles) Liu Yuan established a small state also called Han, because he believed he inherited from already finished Han Dynasty. It was just one of 16 states during the Age of Fragmentation and vanished later in China.
> 
> 2.	Relationship between Xiongnu and Uighur, and the formation of Uighur.
> There is some indication that Uighur ancestors are a mixture of many tribes, some of these may belong to Xiongnu. It is illogical to say that Uighur is the only descendant of Xiongnu,or Uighur is ancient Xiongnu, as Xiongnu is a collection of tribes. If so, by above facts (emperor Liu Yuan of South Xiongnu), modern Chinese are also decedents of Xiongnu and is legitimate owner of Xinjiang. lol
> 
> The below quote is a true reflection of history as to when Uighur is actually formed as a national.
> 
> 
> BTW, please don&#8217;t mix Xiongnu with Tujue (Turkut).
> 
> 
> This is what an anti-communist ET website has to say
> 
> 
> According to this, their national history can mostly be traced back to 5AD.
> 
> In comparison, this is the maps of Chinese sphere of control in Northwest during that time before the formation of Uighur(206BC - 8AD).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, recent discovery of an ancient mummies in Xinjiang (The Mummies of Xinjiang | Archaeology | DISCOVER Magazine ) inadvertently antagonizes some people, because it proves further that Uighurs are not the only native to this land.
> 
> BTW again, Chinese history is not and can not be monopolized by Chinese government and parties of any sorts. This history is a result of all scholars with various political backgrounds from across the world, and is backed up by hard evidences and proofs, of course with many questions still remain unanswered. Please point out which source I quoted was from Chinese government that is in contradiction to academic research. Will quotes from terrorist ETIM web site make you feel much happier?
> 
> BTW thrice, if twisting history is because Uighurs are Muslims, that is what people call &#8220;religious extremist&#8221;. In China, Muslims live and do business all over the places. Chinese citizens, regardless of their believes, can call anywhere in China their home.
> 
> Let's promote human rights and social equality in Xinjiang together, and stop doing anything counter-productive!




------------------------------------------



You have incorrectly analyzed and interpreted my research and information, and with all due respect the very foundation of your argument is beginning to crumble...


Now let me continue.





> In your article, *you imply that Uighurs are Xiongnu in some sense, that is wrong,* at least not quite correct.* You further deduce that Xiongnu&#8217;s land is Uighur&#8217;s land. That is even more ridiculous.*



A) You have incorrectly analyzed my research & information. What I have mentioned is the Xiongnu also known as the Huns are prototypical Turkic people. The Xiongnu, a group of Nomadic tribes in the northern China/Mongolian region, consisting mostly of prototypical Turkic and Mongoloid people. Recent discoveries and research clearly suggest the Xiongnu also known as the Huns were the prototypical Turks nearing the end of the Xiongnu period and into the early phase of the first exclusive Turkic empire, "The Great Hun Empire" ( 204 BC - 216 AD ). Read information below.

"Though there is still much debate as to who exactly the Xiongnu were, or whether they were identical to the Huns, *the prevailing theory is that the Huns were the Xiongnu, and archeological and linguistic evidence suggests a Turkic origin for them*."

Source:Interactions between China and the Turkic peoples - Asia - ColorQ's Color Club

Another source (below) supports this claim.

"The *original geographic location of Xiongnu* is generally placed at the Ordos[citation needed]. Recent genetics research dated 2003[15] confirms the studies[16] *indicating that the Turkic peoples,[17] originated from the same area and therefore are possibly related.*"

Source: Xiongnu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well the fact that recent genetic studies have time and time again found a genetic link that many of the people of the Xiongnu were in fact Prototypical Turkic people, because Turkic genetic linkage and trace can be found at the original location of Xiongnu region (Northern China/Mongolia).

Keep in mind the Prototypical Turkic nomads of the Xiongnu later became and formed "The Great Hun Empire", again an exclusive Turkic empire not Mongoloid or Chinese Han. Around this time of 3rd-2nd century BC the Prototypical Turkic people of the Xiongnu began separating from the Chinese Mongoloid and Chinese Han people. Though Turkic and Mongol people are genetically cousins they are respectfully their own ethnic group. Read information and source below.


"Another 2006 study observed genetic similarity among Mongolian samples from different periods and geographic areas including 2,300-year-old Xiongnu population of the Egiyn Gol Valley. This results supports the hypothesis that the succession over time of different *Turkic and Mongolian tribes in the current territory of Mongolia resulted in cultural rather than genetic exchanges.*" 

Source: Xiongnu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (footnotes checked and are decent)

Whether Xiongnu was a derogatory name or not doesn't matter, because research strongly suggest these people were Prototypical Turkic peoples.




> 1.	What is Xiongnu?
> Xiongnu (or Hsiung-nu) was a derogatory name (I believe, as Chinese characters are in most cases pictographic) coined by the ancient Chinese, literally meaning &#8220;ferocious slaves&#8221;. *This is a generic name that contains a collection of nomadic tribes with many different races and locations* in north and northwest of ancient China. For instance, in the Western Zhou(&#21608 period(about 1046B.C.-771B.C.) Xiongnu was also called Hunyi(&#28151;&#22839, meaning &#8220;*mixed barbarians*&#8221;. (Note that, this is only a simplified translation. Ancient Chinese called &#8220;Barbarians&#8221; with many different names based on their locations, etc.)-gpit




Whether Xiongnu was a derogatory name or not doesn't matter (though I agree it is a derogatory word), because research strongly suggest these people consisted Prototypical Turkic peoples as well, not only Mongoloid.





> Westerner thus said:
> 
> 
> *Part of Xiongnu actually assimilated themselves into Chinese*. According to your logic, the Chinese at least have equal rights to ET.-gpit



No the Chinese do not "at least have equal rights to East Turkistan. Several reasons why the Chinese descendents of the Xiongnu traveled south mainly to Eastern China. You have to remember their is now at this time in history a genetic difference between the Turkic people and Mongoloid people, they are no longer the same group of Xiongnu Nomads mixed into one. 

Your source only says "part of Xiongnu actually assimilated themselves into Chinese". Yes that is true and no one has denied that, but that part that assimilated in China was the Mongoloid and Chinese Han branch of the Nomadic Xiongnu people not so much the Prototypical Turkic branch (and Hun Turkic people). I hope this is clear now. The sooner you understand this the better.




B) Now I will move onto what you claim to be the Chinese sphere of control before the Uyghurs arrive to East Turkistan. 



> According to this, their national history can mostly be traced back to 5AD.
> 
> In comparison, this is the maps of Chinese sphere of control in Northwest during that time before the formation of Uighur(206BC - 8AD).
> 
> 
> Now this is a major mistake you are making, because you start off your history with the arrival of the Uyghurs in East Turkistan. As I already told you (read below).
> 
> "*We are not simply talking about the arrival of the Uyghurs we are talking about the Turks whom the Uyghurs stem from, the early Turkic empires are the origins of the Uyghurs. The first Turkic empire "The Great Hun Empire The Great Hun Empire ( 204 BC - 216 AD)*" actually first ruled the region now known as E. Turkistan/Xinjiang in the 3rd-2nd centuries BC, again this predates the arrival of the West Han Dynasty by 200 years at least."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In comparison, this is the maps of *Chinese sphere of control* in Northwest during that time *before the formation of Uighur(206BC - 8AD)*."-gpit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Chinese sphere of control", this *means little *because this *does not mean Chinese settlement of East Turkistan or Chinese cultivation of East Turkistan or Chinese nation-building of East Turkistan. This is a crushing blow to your argument*, "Chinese sphere of control" means little at this time of history, anyone can claim "sphere of control" but it was the "Great Hun Empire" the first Turkic Empire that actually settled down, cultivated the land, grew the gardens, and established a flourishing civilization and nation in East Turkistan as early as 204 BC.
> 
> *By the way I am not denying China expanded Westward*, Yes I understand under Emeper Wu Di, the West Han Dynasty did expand westward. However, imperialistic expansion does not necessarily give you legitimate claim to land already cultivated and settled by a Turkic people who had arrived in the 3rd-2nd century BC. Read information below.
> 
> "Under Emperor Wu Di, the boundaries of China expanded north into Mongolia, *west into Turkestan*, east into Korea and south into Indochina. In many cases the Han expanded to head off threats and create a buffer zone around the Han heartland. After lands were conquered settlers were encouraged to move there to firm up China&#8217;s claim on the land."
> 
> Source:HAN DYNASTY (206 B.C.-A.D. 220) - China | Facts and Details
> 
> "China expanded...west in Turkestan" this also supports my claim, the land was already settled and cultivated by the Turkic people, before the Chinese Han under Emperor Wu Di arrived. The land that China expanded westward today was already considered Turkestan. No it was not settled by Uyghurs as they are the decedents of the early Turkic Hun people, by ethnic heritage alone East Turkistan is their homeland.
> 
> As I showed you before here is a map of the first "Great Hun Empire" (204 BC - 216 AD) (around 400 years of existence)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C) Now about this 'recent discovery' ( as recent as 1994 really), I think it will surprise you more than it will surprise me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "BTW, recent discovery of an ancient mummies in Xinjiang (The Mummies of Xinjiang | Archaeology | DISCOVER Magazine ) inadvertently antagonizes some people, because it proves *further that Uighurs are not the only native to this land.*"-gpit"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First let me make this clear, as I said we are not exclusively talking about Uyghurs, they are the decedents of the Great Hun Empire, the first Turkic empire, they stem from the early Turkic people who cultivated East Turkistan.
> 
> About this recent discovery.
> 
> "
> The Mummies of Xinjiang
> 
> In the dry hills of the central Asian province, archeologists have unearthed more than 100 corpses that are as much as 4,000 years old, astonishingly well preserved--and *Caucasian*.
> 
> In contrast to most central Asian peoples, *these corpses had obvious Caucasian, or European, features--blond hair, long noses, deep-set eyes, and long skulls*.
> 
> *As far back as the second century B.C.*, Chinese texts refer to alien peoples called the Yuezhi and the Wusun, who lived on China's far western borders; the texts make it clear that these people were regarded as troublesome "barbarians."
> 
> Source: The Mummies of Xinjiang | Archaeology | DISCOVER Magazine
> 
> In fact the 'recent discovery' of a dead mummy in Xinjiang with European features actually supports my claim even more.
> 
> Let me explain (read below)
> 
> The nomadic tribes of the *Yuezhi *are also documented in detail in Chinese historical accounts, in particular the 2nd-1st century BC "*Records of the Great Historian", or Shiji, by Sima Qian*. According to these accounts:
> 
> 
> "The Yuezhi originally lived in the area between the Qilian or Heavenly Mountains (Tian Shan) and Dunhuang, but after they were defeated by the *Xiongnu they moved far away to the west*, beyond Dayuan, where they attacked and conquered the people of Daxia and set up the court of their king on the northern bank of the Gui [= Oxus] River. A small number of their people who were unable to make the journey west sought refuge among the Qiang barbarians in the Southern Mountains, where they are known as the Lesser Yuezhi.",[9]
> 
> *According to Han accounts, the Yuezhi "were flourishing" during the time of the first great Chinese Qin emperor,* but were regularly in conflict with the neighbouring tribe of the Xiongnu to the northeast.
> 
> Some Uyghur scholars claim modern Uyghurs descent from both the Turkic Uyghurs and the pre-Turkic Tocharians (Yuezhi), and relatively fair skin, hair and eyes, as well as other so-called 'Caucasoid' physical traits, are not uncommon among Uyghurs. *Modern genetic analysis suggests that aboriginal inhabitants had a high proportion of DNA of European origin*[10].
> 
> Source: History of Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> These early people in East Turkistan with European people were the Pre-Turkic Tocharians. Many Uyghurs are also the decedent of the Prototypical Turkic people as well. Many Uyghurs also have these European features such as blonde hair, fair skin, and colorful eyes.
> 
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Uyghur_girl.jpg/250px-Uyghur_girl.jpg
> Uyghur girl in Turpan, East Turkistan. She has the same "Caucasoid" features the Prototypical or Pre-Turkic Tocharian people had.
> 
> One final note I would like to repeat,
> 
> Let's not forget that historically Turks have lived in East Turkistan longer than any other Mongoloid or Chinese Han people. The Gokturk empire The Khazar empire the Uyghur state and other Turkic empires all lived in the region much much longer than any Chinese people.
> 
> 
> Check Mate, Vini Vidi Vici!!!
Click to expand...

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## salman nedian

The basic reason why any Muslim country is not raising voice for the Chinese Muslims is that China doesn&#8217;t have any dispute with any Muslim country neither it has been involved in occupying Muslim territories like India, Israel and USA.

The riots in China are again an attempt to destabilize Pak-China relationship.We have seen that many times Chinese were attacked in Pakistan for this cause but the current issue is not the issue which cannot be resolved. If Chinese Muslims need autonomy than we can help to settle their matters peacefully and ensuring the integrity of China.


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## DistortedIndia

Western Media = ( BBC, CNN, AFP, Reuters, Globe & Mail, & so on ) is the extension of the Demon "you know who".

 < Devil > = << Slaves & Tools of the "you know who" ( America, England, Israel, France, Canada, Australia, & so on ) >>


1) The Demon "you know who" and the Devils is trying to provoke the wise Muslims all over the world to attack and go Armageddon against the Chinese.

2) About 1 month ago, 10 JUN 2009 to be precise, the Head of the Demon "you know who" released 17 Uighur terrorists into a nice hiding place in Palau.

3) Did you know that in Palau the 17 Uighur terrorists received a wonderful welcoming gifts in the form of nice "powerful" mobile phones given by the Demon "you know who" agents?

4) Less than 1 month later, the well coordinated and simultaneous Uighur terrorists attacks happened.


 If you happened to still believe on what are being reported on the Demon "you know who" Western Media ( BBC, CNN, AFP, Reuters, & so on ) ,
then please check these gruesome pictures below. 

See for yourself, if the face of the victims look like Uighur or ( Han / Hui ).

The gruesome pictures are the result of the well coordinated and simultaneous Uighur attacks on at least 8 different locations throughout city of Urumqi.

Warning Gruesome Pictures: &#198;&#223;&#212;&#194;&#163;&#172;&#206;&#218;&#194;&#179;&#196;&#190;&#198;&#235;&#183;&#162;&#201;&#250;&#193;&#203;&#202;&#178;&#195;&#180;&#163;&#191;&#215;&#233;&#205;&#188;


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## rubyjackass

DarkStar said:


> These figures must be taken with a pinch of salt. There are reports, also on teh bbc news website, which put the figures much higher, and the proportion of uighurs killed at 90 percent.



Yup, those figures are very conveniently placed to 'prove' that the rioters were mostly Uighurs and that they stormed into Hun areas claiming they killed so many women od Hun chinese. I dont give a damn for these numbers.


@salman nedian: 
In case you did not wake up and see. WHat Uighurs claim is exactly what you wanted as a condition for condemning CHina. THeir territory has been 'occupied'.


ANyway I dont understand why China is being so insecure about not letting media in. Its not like East Tukestan is going to come about in a day if that happened. THe population situation cannot let the formation of East Turkestan. Also some people in support of Uighurs here are overly excited. Even in the best case scenario for Uighurs what they get newly is 0.
The worst being a lot of community leaders getting tried eliminating the top leadership. And I cannot understand how reckless Chinese leadership can be in shamelessly putting the blame on the exiled, without a word on the discontentment in people there.

On one hand they say they wont say a word that would cause the ethnic unity to be disturbed, they do not acknowledge there is a problem and on the other side the figures seem so perfectly tailored.
Even IF the figures are accurate, the credibility they have is nil.


As for some people here more videos are of the type where Uighurs were attacking Huns. How could they escape the clamp down on information flow there? Did we hear from any Uighurs there? But we do hear from the Hui people who claim that Muslims are very happy there.


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## muse

Ruby

just look at the kind of job the so called "impartial media" of the West has done so far, Imagine what they will do if allowed unfettered access. - our senior member Fatman 17 has a thread about a CNN interview with Gen Abbas (see current affairs thread) compare what the article says and compare what the report CNN put together says -- if Western media find themselves distrusted, they have only themselves ot blame for allowing themselves to be used as tools of policy of organizations and the governments which sponsoring them.

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## rubyjackass

CNN could do that because the questions were exclusively between the CNN reporter and Abbas.
If you let everyone into places of conflict, then it will be difficult for any one agency to deviate from facts. People can listen to all views. The insecurity of administration gives an impression that the problem is very grave and may be out of hands. 

The worst thing is, still people like us can't be sure of what happened. And here we see people lapping up Chinese official releases which have higher chances of being untrue and call Uighurs unpatriotic. What if they don't give a damn for the country you want them to be patriotic to? Look at the Chinese govt taking pot shots at the exiled leaders. If it were so easy for them to incite riots from that far, even then it suggests of a serious problem. 

I am convinced that the death toll is much higher.


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## muse

ruby


But waht you say, that the questions were between Michael Ware and Gen Abbas is only partially true - there is a shot with Ware standing in the hills and claiming that 100 talib are on another hill because the Pak Fauj tolerates --- regardless of what you may want to think, it's pretty clear between the reporter, the producer and the editor, an entirely new story was created complete with images, this new stroy reflected not the facts but the placing of images such that "facts" are created - what part of that is journalism? 

You say you are convinced many more people than those reported were killed -- why are you so convinced? Why would you trust Western Media to report figures higher than those reported by the govt?? Why do you not think that the figures are less than those reported by the Chinese?

Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.


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## rubyjackass

muse said:


> ruby
> 
> 
> But waht you say, that the questions were between Michael Ware and Gen Abbas is only partially true - there is a shot with Ware standing in the hills and claiming that 100 talib are on another hill because the Pak Fauj tolerates --- regardless of what you may want to think, it's pretty clear between the reporter, the producer and the editor, an entirely new story was created complete with images, this new stroy reflected not the facts but the placing of images such that "facts" are created - what part of that is journalism?
> 
> You say you are convinced many more people than those reported were killed -- why are you so convinced? Why would you trust Western Media to report figures higher than those reported by the govt?? Why do you not think that the figures are less than those reported by the Chinese?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.


The two reportings are entirely unrelated. One is about a general riot other is 'investigative'. 
Investigative pieces are not accepted as they come. They will get confirmed or cooled down later. Did other nations rally behind the news without confirmation? No that dint happen. That doesn't usually. In case of riots, when reported by many agencies will give a convergent set of facts for people to understand whats really going on. 
But when you do that with a general population which already complains about discrimination, what is gross? People even Chinese want to know about the truth. Also timing of the news matters here. If people know immediately through reliable sources that riots are instigated, then the situation can be diffused easily. Also if they realize that there is indeed a problem, they will give up their false nationalism and try to bring pressure on administration to solve it. If the ethnic fall out is real then let people know about it and work at it.

I don't see where you are trying to go comparing both things as I explained how different they are.


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## muse

> People even Chinese want to know about the truth



See, you may not have realized it when you wrote it, but you have formed the opinion that the Chinese people are being lied to, that they have not been told the truth

How have you arrived at this conclusion??



> If people know immediately through reliable sources that riots are instigated, then the situation can be diffused easily.



Once again, you have concluded that "reliable sources" are simply not the Chinese -- On what basis are concluding these?? And help me out here, who would you say are these "reliable sources"??

Help me figure out why you choose to think that the Chinese who broke the news are "untrustworthy and unreliable" -- I hope you will take the time to think what these assumptions you have made say about how you approach the topic


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## rubyjackass

That was just an answer to your first para. About the rest...
Firstly I have not heard anything about the other side in the first reports of the news. Which can only mean that the media never talked to them by then.
And the government was busy blaming the exiled people, I do not understand if they really represent Uighurs. 
Despite a clampdown on communication a large number of videos came into circulation during the said time.
The figures as I pointed are too perfect.
Nobody in China even now says a word about Uighurs. They are still defiant. May be you want to say they need not explain it to other countries. But at least explain to China and we will take the message.
Add to it the PR with Hui people as an address to Muslims.
Then there are reports of restrictions on journalists even as the admin arranged for a guided tour of the region, going back on their word. It is during the guided tour that the protests of Uighur women, covered by media and that caused embarasst the govt came out, as I understand.
The media was filled with nothing but the official version of events, not a bit more.

And see I am not saying Western media is reliable beyond doubt. What I said was that by letting wide coverage, the facts can be known and the reasons addressed.

This is also a humanitarian issue apart from the political drama in and outside China. Uighurs have no international recognition at all and the worst is that those that challenge the government cannot live there nor can they run away like Tibetans because of the closeness of Pakistani govt to China. Worse China makes Pakistan call these people terrorists. The least that China can do is to tell Chinese that they have this problem.


My attention to the incidents was not perfect. But these are my notes.


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## muse

> My attention to the incidents was not perfect.



Well, nobody is perfect and remember that no one can recall all facts, after all there may be facts that we are not aware of - any way you look at it, there are facets that one is not as aware of as other facets, isn't that so?



> Firstly I have not heard anything about the other side in the first reports of the news. Which can only mean that the media never talked to them by then.
> And the government was busy blaming the exiled people, I do not understand if they really represent Uighurs.
> Despite a clampdown on communication a large number of videos came into circulation during the said time.
> The figures as I pointed are too perfect


.

The other side? to what are you referring? When Mumbai was attacked did you guys get to hear from laskar e this or that? Should you have???? You then go on to conclude that this "can only mean" that Chinese did not talk to everybody they thought they should speak to -- How cna you possibly conclude this - If indeed Chinese are serious then obviously they would have talked to everybody they could talk to.

You say the figures are too perfect - "too" perfect? What's that? The figures repersent those collected by the authorities, what imperfect and perfect got to do with it -- 



> there are reports of restrictions on journalists even as the admin arranged for a guided tour of the region, going back on their word. It is during the guided tour that the protests of Uighur women, covered by media and that caused embarasst the govt came out, as I understand



First of all you admit that CHinese did bring in foreign media and they were supervised for their own security - you say they were not allowed to do their job and then claim that they covered a protest by women -- you seem to be arguing "heads I win, tails you lose" - It's a unreasonable position.



> This is also a humanitarian issue apart from the political drama in and outside China. Uighurs have no international recognition at all



This is a rather curious position, a case of civil unrest you now charcterize as a humanitarian issue? Since when? no one has been denied medical assistance who may need it, in fact, quite the other way around. When there is a riot in the US such as there was in los Angels a while back, are you arguing that the rioters, mostly African American should have had international recognition? And When riots broke out in Eastern India, are you suggesting that rioters should have had international recognition?? I don't think this is a strong position. 

If US media in particular and Western associated media are distrusted by most people it is because they seem to be untrustworthy. I think if you are going to cite that Chinese media present a state or official view, why would anyone want the view of these events from the point of view of Western security services or Western interests be acceptable??? 

See, ruby, in the final analysis, we are left with a damning conclusion about the impartiality and verasity of Western media, what they have lost by becoming partisan, they must undo by demonstrating their impartialty and this is not easy, because it is now part of the structure of Western media.

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## Kasrkin

*All the threads relating to the civil unrest in Xinjiang have been merged.*

Please continue discussing the issue in a coherent and civil way.

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## paritosh

If you'd read this thread from the beginning you'd see how such things were dismissed as rumors and 'propaganda' when they were first reported in 2006...and now most seem to realize that they were wrong all the while.


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## skeptic9

^ Chinese are caught by the Uighur coordination on this issue...

When Chinese used phrases like "the rioters" and "violent mob" to describe the protesters that woman Kadeem (?) produced photos of the protest live on TV showing large columns of Chinese military covering the streets. I also take western media reporting on China with a grain of salt but that thing struck me...The military was already deployed when the rally was peaceful and the streets were otherwise empty (except for military and the Uighurs); then how could they find and kill hundreds of Hans on the street??

Look for those clips, AlJazeera and CNN I guess.

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## muse

> Chinese are caught by the Uighur coordination on this issue...



That's an interesting suggestion, perhaps if you may care to elaborate



> When Chinese used phrases like "the rioters" and "violent mob" to describe the protesters that woman Kadeem (?) produced photos of the protest live on TV showing large columns of Chinese military covering the streets



How interesting, as if "the woman Kadeem" was prepared for the question? But prepared by whom? Who was questioning her? At what stage during the riots were "large columns of Chinese military covering the streets" - recall it took a few days for the chinese to get additional riot control forces into the province.


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## DarkStar

muse said:


> That's an interesting suggestion, perhaps if you may care to elaborate
> 
> 
> 
> How interesting, as if "the woman Kadeem" was prepared for the question? But prepared by whom? Who was questioning her? At what stage during the riots were "large columns of Chinese military covering the streets" - recall it took a few days for the chinese to get additional riot control forces into the province.



The Chinese already have a lot of army/para military in Xinjiang, as the province has been simmering for the last two decades. My father was in Urumqi and Kashgar a month back, and he has told me about how high the security presence on the streets was.

Another reason for disontent is that after the olympic games terrorist threats, a lot of Uighur's in Xinjiang, especially those in high posts in the police, adminstration, etc. lost their jobs. In the past year, the adminstration has taken a very obvious Han Chinese colour, which has invariably fueled tensions.

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## rubyjackass

muse said:


> The other side? to what are you referring? When Mumbai was attacked did you guys get to hear from laskar e this or that? Should you have???? You then go on to conclude that this "can only mean" that Chinese did not talk to everybody they thought they should speak to -- How cna you possibly conclude this - If indeed Chinese are serious then obviously they would have talked to everybody they could talk to.


Whats with your comparison spree?
Do you compare Mumbai terrorists with Uighurs?  I am not asking them to get stories from rioters. Whatever explanation Uighurs could give came from outside China.
*It can only mean* that because if they talked to any Uighurs, they would have published their views about the allegations on the one sided bloodshed of the community.


muse said:


> You say the figures are too perfect - "too" perfect? What's that? The figures repersent those collected by the authorities, what imperfect and perfect got to do with it --


I don't know their motives, may be their drive to protect their national integration. 
That is the situation we are talking about. Who said so? Like for example you see in Dawn that PA has killed so many militants everyday. Apparently no civilians die in this operation or people concerned have conveniently counted them among militants. Forget about the real count of PA soldiers that get killed(this might be very less but). 




muse said:


> First of all you admit that Chinese did bring in foreign media and they were supervised for their own security - you say they were not allowed to do their job and then claim that they covered a protest by women -- you seem to be arguing "heads I win, tails you lose" - It's a unreasonable position.


What was this media doing when riots began? If they were so free then in the peaceful situation that was there before(when there is no need for security), they could have covered the initial phase of the riots.




muse said:


> This is a rather curious position, a case of civil unrest you now charcterize as a humanitarian issue? Since when? no one has been denied medical assistance who may need it, in fact, quite the other way around. When there is a riot in the US such as there was in los Angels a while back, are you arguing that the rioters, mostly African American should have had international recognition? And When riots broke out in Eastern India, are you suggesting that rioters should have had international recognition?? I don't think this is a strong position.


It is primarily a civil unrest case for the Chinese. Forgive my wording. It COULD be a humanitarian issue FOR the Uighurs(from their POVs. Could be if they are indeed fighting for separation which will be clearly futileas I mentioned earlier). We can never know exactly for sure. People are too eager to picture reality as their side of their story(both sides). 

Call that a 'voice' if you dont want to call it ' intl recognition'. In CHina anyway they seem to have no chance of raising their voice. Now who exactly speaks for UIGHURS IN CHINA? 
Dont tell me the exiles. That we cannot be sure.



muse said:


> If US media in particular and Western associated media are distrusted by most people it is because they seem to be untrustworthy. I think if you are going to cite that Chinese media present a state or official view, why would anyone want the view of these events from the point of view of Western security services or Western interests be acceptable???
> 
> See, ruby, in the final analysis, we are left with a damning conclusion about the impartiality and verasity of Western media, what they have lost by becoming partisan, they must undo by demonstrating their impartialty and this is not easy, because it is now part of the structure of Western media.


Again I did not say Western media in particular. If whatever non-Chinese or non state media in China is Western then so be it. But at least with that we will hear different POVs and claims, so one section is not unduly patronised.


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## skeptic9




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## rubyjackass

Uighur group 'regrets' photo error
Kadeer's use of the photo generated several responses from Al Jazeera viewers


An official of the World Uighur Congress has admitted that their exiled leader used an incorrect photograph to illustrate riots in China's western Xinjiang region, during an interview with Al Jazeera.

Alim Seytoff of the Uighur American Associaition said he and other Uighur leaders regretted the error.

Rebiya Kadeer, a former Uighur businesswoman who was jailed in China for several years and now lives in exile in the US, used the photograph during an interview earlier this week.

She said the photograph showed Chinese forces lined up on the streets of Urumqi, the capital of the Xinjiang.

However, the image was not of Urumqi, but is believed to be of an unrelated riot in the city of Shishou a month earlier.

Several news agencies including Reuters issued the photograph - apparently originally sourced from Twitter - last Monday, a day after riots broke out in Urumqi that Chinese officials say left more than 150 dead.

The mistake was picked up by several Chinese websites, China's state-run China Daily newspaper and by readers of the Al Jazeera website.

Apology

Speaking to Al Jazeera on Friday, Alim Seytoff of the Uighur American Associaition apologised for the error.

In depth


Image: Disputed 'riot' photo Video: Kadeer interview
Video: Exiled leader speaks out
"We deeply regret using this wrong photo, that was not our intent," he said, speaking from Washington.

"Later we were able to find out that the photograph showed Han Chinese protesters in Hubei province in a protest which took place a few days before the Urumqi unrest."

Seytoff said the photograph was one of hundreds of images and pieces of video that had been obtained from a variety of sources following Sunday's unrest.

"This picture happened to be one of them," Seytoff said. "The image quality is better than the others so we thought we thought this was a better image to use."

Nonetheless he said the mistake over one image should not cast doubt on the credibility of other images released by his organisation.

"With this photograph, because it was taken from a distance, you can only see protesters and Chinese army or soldiers &#8211; you cannot identify whether the protesters are Uighurs or not," he said.

"With all the other photographs you can see clearly they are Uighurs."

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## DarkStar

applesauce said:


> sigh..... china fears... blab.blab.blab. no nation in the world can say that XingJang is not a part of china. the Uighurs live there yes its true.... but to claim the area rightfully belongs to them is wishful thinking at best, i agree with some that in the future should the power of the central government weaken then we could see some independence movement succeed, but then again that wouldnt be unheard of, it has happen in the past (think ancient history and what not). now then as some had mentioned the uighurs were never there before the han peoples there is substantial proof to this and china being the oldest continuously civilization on earth does indeed has claims to the area no one can deny, in any map in the west you can see the rules of past chinese empires extending to that area.
> 
> on a more political note the area has lots of oil and other resources, the central government will NEVER let it go



It is on the basis of thei Historical claim, that Pakistan ceded to China a part of Kashmiri territory that China had claimed.

However, the issue is not about seperatism in Xinjiang, but the treatment of the Uighur community of Xinjiang.

They should have equal rights and opportunities as Chinese Han. A Uighur cannot go to South East China, and register as a citizen, yet the demographics of Xinjiang have been altered by incentivised migration.

Considering all the natural resources that the Center extracts from Xinjian, the Uighurs of xinjiang at least desrve a proper education and access to jobs. People are only interested in bettering their lives and those of their children, the Uighurs are no different.

Comparing their human aspirations with the intentions of terrorists, and using the Han Chinese communities there as a hammer to beat them when they ask for equal rights as chinese citizens is a big mistake by the authorities, and may exacerbate the problem to the extent that seperatist feeling could take root.


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## skeptic9

rubyjackass said:


> Uighur group 'regrets' photo error
> Kadeer's use of the photo generated several responses from Al Jazeera viewers





OK I picked the worst possible video.

Thanks for correcting me.


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## aimarraul

the Xinjiang riots thread ends up like a "indian happy" show.Could this riots be worse than tiananmen incident in 1989,the whole world was blocking china then,what's china's answer:over 10&#37; average GDP growth in the last 20 years,chinese won't buy western or india media's propaganda,enjoy your fun, my indian friends,china will be crushed by a criminal case if you keep doing this.


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## skeptic9

^ Ya 10&#37; growth, excellent..carry on

Glory of Roman Empire was achieved on the sufferings of slaves too.


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## shravan

aimarraul said:


> Could this riots be worse than tiananmen incident in 1989,



*Off Topic*

What was the real reason behind Tiananmen Square Incident ?


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## muse

DS



> the olympic games terrorist threats, a lot of Uighur's in Xinjiang, especially those in high posts in the police, adminstration, etc. lost their jobs. In the past year, the adminstration has taken a very obvious Han Chinese colour, which has invariably fueled tensions


. 

I'm not so sure I understand, are you saying that the removal of inefficient civil servants is cause for riots?

Clearly tension is being created and fuel by some "interests" - should they be allowed to create civil unrest? 



> the issue is not about seperatism in Xinjiang, but the treatment of the Uighur community of Xinjiang.
> 
> They should have equal rights and opportunities as Chinese Han. A Uighur cannot go to South East China, and register as a citizen, yet the demographics of Xinjiang have been altered by incentivised migration.
> 
> Considering all the natural resources that the Center extracts from Xinjian, the Uighurs of xinjiang at least desrve a proper education and access to jobs. People are only interested in bettering their lives and those of their children, the Uighurs are no different.
> 
> Comparing their human aspirations with the intentions of terrorists, and using the Han Chinese communities there as a hammer to beat them when they ask for equal rights as chinese citizens is a big mistake by the authorities, and may exacerbate the problem to the extent that seperatist feeling could take root.



So your take on the riots is that they are justifed and should be seen as a equal rights struggle?? You give no credence to the authorities claim that an outside force is effecting events in Urumuchi? If not, why not?

BTW - Has Rekya Kadeer's group a proscribed group in China? Do you think Ms. Kadeer should be granted legitimacy? How is it that Ms. Kadeer "represents" Uighur all the way from Washington DC?


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## DarkStar

muse said:


> DS
> 
> .
> 
> I'm not so sure I understand, are you saying that the removal of inefficient civil servants is cause for riots?
> 
> Clearly tension is being created and fuel by some "interests" - should they be allowed to create civil unrest?



The removal of a lot of Uighurs from high posts in the province may not be a cause for the riots, but it certainly could not have helped. 

Who do you take these 'interests' to be? Al Qaida, the Taliban, the Uighur community in America?

It seems a recurrent and easy ploy by many governments around the world to suppress any muslim aspirations, complaints, protests by labelling them as terrorist-inspired, and crushing them mercilessly.



> So your take on the riots is that they are justifed and should be seen as a equal rights struggle?? You give no credence to the authorities claim that an outside force is effecting events in Urumuchi? If not, why not?
> 
> BTW - Has Rekya Kadeer's group a proscribed group in China? Do you think Ms. Kadeer should be granted legitimacy? How is it that Ms. Kadeer "represents" Uighur all the way from Washington DC?



I certainly do not justify these riots, but I do want to make the effort to understand the underlying reasons why people may have felt the need to riot, or even be led astray by 'outside forces' as you have put them. Without such an understanding, what the underlying problems are, solutions to such problems cannot be found.

The major 'evidence' that the Chinese have unearthed is a spike in communications between Xinjiang and the outside world after the initial riots...lots of emails and phone calls. 

This is ludicrous, since it is a given that people would enquire for their loved ones if they think a riot or some other civil disturbance is going on. 

As for Ms.Kadeer, I have no opinion about her, or her activities.


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## muse

> I do want to make the effort to understand the underlying reasons why people may have felt the need to riot, or even be led astray by 'outside forces' as you have put them. Without such an understanding, what the underlying problems are, solutions to such problems cannot be found
> 
> It seems a recurrent and easy ploy by many governments around the world to suppress any muslim aspirations, complaints, protests by labelling them as terrorist-inspired, and crushing them mercilessly



DS

I admire the fact that you seek to understand the underlying reasons, however; it's certainly curious and disturbing that you inform your effort to understand events, by the suggestion that what you call "muslim aspiration" (are these different from the aspirations of other human beings?) are being crushed "mercilessly" as you put it -- the disturbing part of this is that you seemed to not distinguish betwen governments nor so called "muslim aspirations" - I hope you can see that failure to distinguish leaves your position in a rather vulnerable state, are the "aspirations" of islamist insurgents in Pakistan the same as those of the Uighur? Is the Pakistan government "mercilessly" crushing "muslim aspirations"? 


I think we all want to understand the underlying set of causes and players, however; if we preconcieve, prejudge, the response of the security authorities we will have failed in our effort, don't you think?


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## aimarraul

DarkStar said:


> It is on the basis of thei Historical claim, that Pakistan ceded to China a part of Kashmiri territory that China had claimed.
> 
> However, the issue is not about seperatism in Xinjiang, but the treatment of the Uighur community of Xinjiang.
> 
> They should have equal rights and opportunities as Chinese Han. A Uighur cannot go to South East China, and register as a citizen, yet the demographics of Xinjiang have been altered by incentivised migration.
> 
> Considering all the natural resources that the Center extracts from Xinjian, the Uighurs of xinjiang at least desrve a proper education and access to jobs. People are only interested in bettering their lives and those of their children, the Uighurs are no different.
> 
> Comparing their human aspirations with the intentions of terrorists, and using the Han Chinese communities there as a hammer to beat them when they ask for equal rights as chinese citizens is a big mistake by the authorities, and may exacerbate the problem to the extent that seperatist feeling could take root.



imaging 1.3 chinese all want to stay in shanghai or shenzhen,we treat Uighurs exactly like Han.for those people really want to work,they can find a job in any city.
lots of muslims are running this kind of restaurant in every city


a very famous basketball coach,Uighur





vice-premier,Uighur





i don't know what kind of proper education your are talking about,there are plenty of schools and universities like this in xinjiang,none of those is close to Uighurs&#65292;none of chinese schools or universities is close to Uighurs



for those remote area in xinjiang ,i will let the picture defend,China is not US

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## Gabbar

*^^^ A**hole on the loose!!! Mods please delete his posts!!!*


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## skeptic9

Dude don't you have anything meaningful to do?
huh! at this hour??


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## gpit

Joe Shearer said:


> Dear Sir,
> 
> Your claim is curious to say the least. Can you provide any sources, including Chinese historican records, that the Han Chinese were settled in this region earlier than the 20th century?
> 
> The Uighurs seem to have entered the territory presently named Xinjiang around 600 AD. There was no Chinese presence in these territories until after the Ming Dynasty; Emperor Yong Le is reported to have 'gained influence' over Eastern Turkestan, that is today known as Xinjiang, and his dates are nearly 750 years later.
> 
> In subsequent centuries, Chinese traders have been reported in Urumqi and other urban centres. Mass migration of Han Chinese began only after PLA occupation of Xinjiang in 1949.
> 
> Earlier events are fully recorded in Chinese records of the times, including the travel memoirs of famous traveller monks. If you are not aware of these records, a list can be provided.
> 
> 'Joe S.'



I bet you haven't read my previous posts, for instance this one.

Please do so and study more before blahblah.

I'm talking to you and to those who thanked you for your joke.

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## gpit

A1Kaid said:


> ------------------------------------------
> 
> ...
> Check Mate, Vini Vidi Vici!!!





I see you have a number of problems in your argument and supporting documents.

1)	*Further assure you that Xiongnu is not a single Hun or Turkic people, rather it is a collection of different tribes.*

You have a deep misconception about Xiongnu, as you had demonstrated earlier. What I can feel is that you based your arguments mainly on Western sources. It is understandable as the Western history is deeply affected with Hun&#8217;s invasion. But it is wrong or incomplete in many profound ways if you think that is a whole picture.

Xiongnu history has been recorded the earliest only in Chinese literature and has been intensively studied by Chinese scholars, though many myths are still inconclusive. Besides the Chinese scholars, only Japanese are the best in this field academically. Western scholars are lagging far, far behind.

Let me introduce one of the greatest Chinese history books Shiji (Records of Grand Historian) written by Sima Qian from 109 BC to 91 BC. Records of the Grand Historian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Within this book, there is a particular chapter talked about Xiongnu called &#21256;&#22900;&#21015;&#20256;, or &#8220;Biographies of Xiongnu&#8221;. In its first sentence, it is written: &#12300;&#21256;&#22900;&#65292;&#20854;&#20808;&#31062;&#22799;&#24460;&#27663;&#20043;&#33495;&#35028;&#20063;&#65292;&#26352;&#28147;&#32173;&#12290;&#12301;. This roughly means: Xiongnu, who&#8217;s ancestors are descendants of Xia Dynasty, called Chunwei. Xia was a real dynasty in ancient China (Xia Dynasty (&#22799;&#26397 &#8211; [2100 BC &#8211; 1600 BC]).

The book Explanation of Shiji&#12298;&#21490;&#35352;&#32034;&#38577;&#12299; quote Zhang An: Chunwei ran into North during Shang Dynasty (&#21830;&#26397 &#8211; [1600 BC &#8211; 1066 BC]. 

&#8220;Biographies of Xiongnu&#8221; actually details how Xiongnu look like, their way of life, their geographic distribution, and their tribal names. Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t find an English translation.

According to yet another ancient, but more about legend an folk-tales, Chinese book&#12298;&#23665;&#28023;&#32147;&#183;&#22823;&#33618;&#21271;&#32147;&#12299;&#65306;&#29356;&#25102;&#33287;&#22799;&#20154;&#21516;&#31062;&#65292;&#30342;&#20986;&#26044;&#40643;&#24093;&#12290; it means Xiongnu shares ancestors with Xia, both are descendants of Emperor Huang. There are disputes whether Emperor Huang (Yellow Emperor Yellow Emperor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) is real or legendary, or is an iconic abstraction of collective true ancient Chinese characters), who has been considered as Chinese ancestors together with Emperor Yan (Yan Emperor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Chinese scholar (a sort of anti-communist, to make you feel more comfortable, who published a book (Ethnical Sources and Flows in China North) &#26417;&#23416;&#28149; (Zhu Xueyuan &#166;&#182;&#190;&#199;&#178;W&#161;G&#166;I&#165;&#163;&#170;&#186;&#166;&#229;&#189;t&#161;B&#187;y&#168;&#165;&#169;M&#165;X&#176;k&#170;&#186;&#184;&#244;&#189;u) wrote &#8230; &#30001;&#20313; &#21363;&#12300;&#22238;&#32007;&#12301;&#8230;i.e. Youyu Xiongnu (Youyu is only one of dozen Xiongnu&#8217;s names that Shiji quotes) is Huihe. It is quite certain now that Huihe is (at least major) ancestor of today&#8217;s Uighur. Dr. Zhu further quotes &#12298;&#28450;&#26360;&#12299; (The Book of Han Book of Han - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) a letter from Xiongnu to Han emperor asking for wives:&#8221; &#12300;&#23396;&#20712;&#20043;&#21531;&#65292;&#29983;&#26044;&#27822;&#28580;&#20043;&#20013;&#65292;&#38263;&#26044;&#24179;&#37326;&#29275;&#39340;&#20043;&#22495;&#65292;&#25976;&#33267;&#37002;&#22659;&#65292;&#39000;&#28216;&#20013;&#22283;&#12290;&#38491;&#19979;&#29544;&#31435;&#65292;&#23396;&#20712;&#29544;&#23621;&#12290;&#20841;&#20027;&#19981;&#27138;&#65292;&#28961;&#20197;&#33258;&#34398;&#65292;&#39000;&#20197;&#25152;&#26377;&#65292;&#26131;&#20854;&#25152;&#28961;&#12290;&#12301;&#8221; where the head of Xiongnu claimed where his ancestors were from. Dr. Zhu thus postulate that is Tungusic (Tungusic people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). 

About all these, Wiki correctly stated, more in western methodology of archeology:
&#8220;According to Sima Qian, the Xiongnu's ruling clan were descendants of Chunwei (&#28147;&#32173, possibly a son of Jie, the final ruler of the Xia Dynasty. However, while there is no direct evidence contradicting this account, there is no direct evidence supporting it either.&#8221;

Nonetheless, we can say, in written history but without archeological proof, Xoingnu, as far as one school of ancient Chinese scholars are considered, are of Chinese descendants, perhaps mixed with a kind of &#8220;Northern Barbarians&#8221;(&#29356;&#25102. 

Regardless, overwhelming amount of authentic sources assure us that Xingnu is a collection of nomad tribes. It is completely wrong to consider Xingnu being only a single Hun or Turkic type people. 

Even as Xiongnu is indeed a collection of multi-ethnic tribes, there is nothing illogical what some Westerner researchers will incorrectly consider Xingnu is only Turkic, as they are mostly interested in Hun Xiongnu, not the others, or are just per topic of Hun.

BTW, actually I&#8217;m glad that you also agree that Xiongnu is a mixed ethnics when you say:&#8221; because research strongly suggest these people consisted Prototypical Turkic peoples as well, not only Mongoloid.&#8221; So we can close this topic.

2)	*Uighur history and territorial claim*

If Youyu, a tribe mentioned in Shiji is indeed an ancestor of today&#8217;s Uighur according to Dr. Zhu, then there is no question that Uighur has that length of history. But please remember that Youyu is only a part of Xiongnu, and a part of Xiongnu confederation. Thus claiming the historical territory of Xiongnu confederation as Uighur&#8217;s territory is obviously more ridiculous than the Mongolian claim many of Europe their territory. Maybe America should be left to native Indians? Lol

There are a host of legal requirements for territorial claim. Political control is generally a must.

Of course, you can change today's legal process as long as you have the energy/power/resources, etc.

So still my old statement: Let's promote human rights and social equality in Xinjiang together, and stop doing anything counter-productive!

BTW, I'm not interested in checkmating anything/anybody, nor conquering anything. I'm only interested in truth.

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## quriosity

Muslim Iran also says the Xinjiang violence was caused by western foreign forces.... 

Mottaki: Western meddling led to China unrest



*Iran condemns the interference of Western governments in China's internal affairs, saying their meddling had provoked the unrest in oil-rich Xinjiang.

In a telephone conversation with his Chinese counterpart Yang Jiechi, Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki expressed the concern of Muslim countries and scholars about the unrest in the northwestern province of Xinjiang.

Stressing the importance of national unity, Mottaki urged the Beijing government to protect the security of Chinese Muslims and condemned foreign interference, which aims to undermine China's stability.

Yang for his part said that the situation in Xinjiang had been brought under control.

The Chinese Foreign Minister added that China respects the rights of all minorities and religious groups living in the country and hopes to restore calm and promote solidarity in Xinjiang.

At least 184 people have lost their lives in protests in the northwestern city of Urumqi over the past week, when the mainly Muslim Uighur minority took to the streets to protest 'discrimination under Chinese rule'.

The protests, which saw more than 1,600 people injured, were sparked over the last-month deaths of Uighur factory workers during a brawl in southern China.

According to government figures, 137 of the casualties were Han Chinese.

Chinese government officials have accused US-exiled Uighur activist Rebiya Kadeer and her followers of being behind the violence.

She, however, denies the allegations and accuses China of inciting the violence.

The Uighurs were once the majority in Xinjiang but now make up only about half of the region's 20 million population due to Han migration.

The eight million Uighurs in Xinjiang accuse the Chinese government of discrimination and repression. The government, however, denies the charges. *

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## quriosity

Sri Lanka too supported China... i am posting a good analytical article from Lanka web... 

LankaWeb &#8211; The trouble in China: the West intensifies the strategy of destabilisation


Posted on July 8th, 2009
Ajit Randeniya

*Less than a month after the spectacular failure of the US and UK orchestrated attempt to destabilise Iran and implement regime change, the gullible public in the West are being bombarded at this moment with similar news of protests in Western China.

The propaganda being dished out by the Western media arm of the conspiracy has a familiar ring to it: casualty numbers are precise as if they were predetermined; the police is committing unspeakable brutality towards peaceful protesters; and there are inspiring stories of courageous resistance against the State law enforcement authorities, with iconic film footage and photographs!

This latest plot conforms to an emerging pattern of a rejuvenated Western strategy of destabilising countries they see as competitors to the US economic and political hegemony of the world, primarily by orchestrating communal unrest. The attempts to achieve this aim are being deployed through the secret services, operating in connivance with Diaspora groups. In order to attract local community sympathy and support, such Diaspora governments in exile are portrayed as victims of Human Rights abuses in their home countries.

The events in China this week are typical of this sinister strategy, with all the usual ingredients: a region with simmering ethnic and religious unrest in a country of interest and an active minority Diaspora in the West backed by significant financial resources. All the secret services need to do to inflame the situation is to facilitate the activities of a few hundred provocateurs through Western embassy staff; The media oligopoly will look after the rest by giving international exposure to the group as the righteous being persecuted by the state machinery! The script of the story emanating from Xinjiang, the capital of Chinas Autonomous Northwestern region of Uyghur conforms to this model, to the letter.

This exploitation of an ethnic minority as the primary tool of destabilisation in particular, conforms to a pattern Sri Lanka and numerous other countries undermined by the US in the past are familiar with. The Uyghur region of China that shares common borders with poor, vulnerable Central and South Asian countries Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal, Bhutan and Bangladesh has long been targeted by the neocons in and around the US administrations as the potential epicenter of political and economic destabilisation, the means of achieving their atrocious objective of containment of China.

The aim of these conspirators was to exploit the ethnic issue in the province between the Han Chinese and theTurkic minority to ferment trouble inside China, through the Uyghur minority communities in the bordering Central Asian countries. It is a bonus that the region is also rich in oil, gas and coal!

This attempt to exploit the Turkic ethnic issue in China is all the more deplorable due to Chinas honourable record towards its ethnic minorities, especially during the Cultural Revolution: Chairman Mao Zedong refined the idea of Chinas founding father Sun Yat-sen that all people in China belong to the great family of Chinese further: he aligned it with his doctrine aimed at constructing a shared, socialist labor identity for all working people, unified by their enmity against capitalists, land owners, serf owners and other exploiters, regardless of their ethnicity. The idea of ethnicity that replaced the idea of class also made the Han and non-Han people equal economically and politically, prompting the working poor of Chinas ethnic minority groups to extend their support to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) government.

The majority Han was aggrieved however, due to the apparent reverse discrimination meted out to them in the form of decreased population proportion that resulted of the exemption of ethnic minorities from the one-child policy for example, and the privileges granted to ethnic minorities for employment and education opportunities caused. In essence, the Chinese ended up inheriting a problem not unlike that of Sri Lankas, with some Uyghurs resorting to separatist violence, and emigrating to the West.

The Uyghurs in the US were organised under a World Uyghur Congress (WUC), their government in exile, led by the 62 year old Rebiya Kadeer, a millionaire businesswoman who fled China in 2005, after serving a goal term for endangering national security, following arrest on her way to meet a visiting delegation from the US Congressional Research Service!

The Chinese government immediately traced the origins of the current violence as a pre-empted, organised violent crime instigated and directed from abroad and carried out by outlaws in the country, and blamed the WUC for orchestrating the events via the internet. Predictably, and according to the script, the WUC told Voice of America that the police had opened fire on protesters!

The timing of the events is related to the meeting of the Group of Eight (G8) meeting being held in the Italian town of LAquila, and more particularly to Chinas planned push at the meeting, together with Russia, for the need to develop a new global financial system based on several strong regional currencies rather than the US dollar that has lost all credibility.

Obviously, the US, UK end the EU considered this challenge to the supremacy their currencies needs warding off, and decided on a campaign of destabilisation to reverse the pressure. The signs as to who is behind the events, like in the Iranian case, were unmistakable: German Chancellor Angela Merkel in particular, volunteered to speak to Chinese President Hu Jintao at the meeting about the worsening violence in Xinjiang. US State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said: We call on all sides for calm and restraint. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon also chipped in, urging the Chinese government to respect their peoples right to protest. This part of the conspiracy failed however, due to the Chinese Presidents decision to cancel his plan to attend the G8 meeting and to return home after his state visit to Italy.

The crux of the matter here is Chinas call for the replacement of the US dollar with stable currencies as the major reserve currencies, and for a new mechanism to maintain tighter vigil on countries issuing reserve currencies: as a country that currently holds more than $2 trillion in foreign exchange reserves, more than 70 percent in US dollar assets, China has the perfect right as well as reasons to demand such a change because under the current framework the US dollar problem is made a Chinese problem, giving US another lever to destabilise China.

The Wests response so far has been to convert the Chinese concern to its own advantage by demanding the complete elimination of capital controls, the Holy Grail of Western search for world domination by controlling the exchange rate volatility that an open capital account generates. Add to this self-serving demand the purely political demands of legal and Human Rights reforms.

As in all matters, China is pursuing a path of slow, cautious policy toward strengthening of the yuan (renminbi) as an alternative to Western currencies and the Yen, all beset with complex problems. With time, China is likely to ease-up on is current policy of preventing the build up of sizeable amounts of the currency by speculators beyond its borders, allowing them to control the exchange rate.

The recently announced goal to turn Shanghai into an international financial center by 2020 however, suggests that China aims to make the yuan fully convertible by then. There are other developments: this year alone, China has signed 650 billion yuan ($95 billion) of currency swaps with nations from Argentina to Belarus; just this week, China started allowing companies to use the yuan to settle cross-border trade; also this week, banks in China and Hong Kong began wiring yuan directly to settle payments for imports and exports. Such developments are all steps toward establishing the yuan as a global currency  and, eventually, an international alternative to the dollar. Chinas stable economic performance and its management of the current turmoil and the 1997/98 Asian financial crisis have proved that China is a worthy contender for global economic leadership: its sheer economic size would propel the yuan to reserve currency status.

The day that the renminbi becomes fully convertible will signal a day of reckoning for the US, marking the real, final shift in global economic leadership to China: the direst practical consequence the US is dreading is that it will no longer be able to run up huge budget deficits and debt without economic penalties of the sort they are handing to the poor at the moment.

This is the reason why the US and its EU cohorts will be looking for new ways of curbing Chinas progress; but history has shown that some things are inevitable.
*

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## SinoIndusFriendship

gpit said:


> If this is the quality of your research, with due respect, you need be more serious in order to gain a footage in any academia of any sort.
> 
> Let me quote the same source that you quote, but more completely:
> 
> 
> BTW, Chanyu is also a generic name like official or officer in Xiongnu system. There are high level Chanyus and low level Chanyus.
> 
> In your article, you imply that Uighurs are Xiongnu in some sense, that is wrong, at least not quite correct. You further deduce that Xiongnus land is Uighurs land. That is even more ridiculous.
> 
> 1.	What is Xiongnu?
> Xiongnu (or Hsiung-nu) was a derogatory name (I believe, as Chinese characters are in most cases pictographic) coined by the ancient Chinese, literally meaning ferocious slaves. *This is a generic name that contains a collection of nomadic tribes with many different races and locations* in north and northwest of ancient China. For instance, in the Western Zhou(&#21608 period(about 1046B.C.-771B.C.) Xiongnu was also called Hunyi(&#28151;&#22839, meaning *mixed barbarians*. (Note that, this is only a simplified translation. Ancient Chinese called Barbarians with many different names based on their locations, etc.)
> 
> Westerner thus said:
> 
> 
> *Part of Xiongnu actually assimilated themselves into Chinese*. According to your logic, the Chinese at least have equal rights to ET.
> 
> A typical such example is &#21016;&#28170; (Liu Yuan, ?-310 AD) whose ancestors were awarded Chinese emperors surname Liu and belonged to South Xiongnu (in contrast to North Xiongnu at that time). 308 AD,(304 in some articles) Liu Yuan established a small state also called Han, because he believed he inherited from already finished Han Dynasty. It was just one of 16 states during the Age of Fragmentation and vanished later in China.
> 
> 2.	Relationship between Xiongnu and Uighur, and the formation of Uighur.
> There is some indication that Uighur ancestors are a mixture of many tribes, some of these may belong to Xiongnu. It is illogical to say that Uighur is the only descendant of Xiongnu,or Uighur is ancient Xiongnu, as Xiongnu is a collection of tribes. If so, by above facts (emperor Liu Yuan of South Xiongnu), modern Chinese are also decedents of Xiongnu and is legitimate owner of Xinjiang. lol
> 
> The below quote is a true reflection of history as to when Uighur is actually formed as a national.
> 
> 
> BTW, please dont mix Xiongnu with Tujue (Turkut).
> 
> 
> This is what an anti-communist ET website has to say
> 
> 
> According to this, their national history can mostly be traced back to 5AD.
> 
> In comparison, this is the maps of Chinese sphere of control in Northwest during that time before the formation of Uighur(206BC - 8AD).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, recent discovery of an ancient mummies in Xinjiang (The Mummies of Xinjiang | Archaeology | DISCOVER Magazine ) inadvertently antagonizes some people, because it proves further that Uighurs are not the only native to this land.
> 
> BTW again, Chinese history is not and can not be monopolized by Chinese government and parties of any sorts. This history is a result of all scholars with various political backgrounds from across the world, and is backed up by hard evidences and proofs, of course with many questions still remain unanswered. Please point out which source I quoted was from Chinese government that is in contradiction to academic research. Will quotes from terrorist ETIM web site make you feel much happier?
> 
> BTW thrice, if twisting history is because Uighurs are Muslims, that is what people call religious extremist. In China, Muslims live and do business all over the places. Chinese citizens, regardless of their believes, can call anywhere in China their home.
> 
> Let's promote human rights and social equality in Xinjiang together, and stop doing anything counter-productive!



Thank you comrade you in-depth research is most useful. Most religious fanatics tend to ignore historical facts in lieu of their unsubstantiated beliefs. If you find yourself believing in something 'just because' it forms 'part of' your religion, then you are one step closer to being a religious fanatic.  Better to think for yourself, research and discuss thoroughly BEFORE you make a decision. If you lack the necessary information then don't make unwise conclusions.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

quriosity said:


> Sri Lanka too supported China... i am posting a good analytical article from Lanka web...
> 
> LankaWeb  The trouble in China: the West intensifies the strategy of destabilisation
> 
> 
> Posted on July 8th, 2009
> Ajit Randeniya
> 
> *Less than a month after the spectacular failure of the US and UK orchestrated attempt to destabilise Iran and implement regime change, the gullible public in the West are being bombarded at this moment with similar news of protests in Western China.
> 
> The propaganda being dished out by the Western media arm of the conspiracy has a familiar ring to it: casualty numbers are precise as if they were predetermined; the police is committing unspeakable brutality towards peaceful protesters; and there are inspiring stories of courageous resistance against the State law enforcement authorities, with iconic film footage and photographs!
> 
> This latest plot conforms to an emerging pattern of a rejuvenated Western strategy of destabilising countries they see as competitors to the US economic and political hegemony of the world, primarily by orchestrating communal unrest. The attempts to achieve this aim are being deployed through the secret services, operating in connivance with Diaspora groups. In order to attract local community sympathy and support, such Diaspora governments in exile are portrayed as victims of Human Rights abuses in their home countries.
> 
> The events in China this week are typical of this sinister strategy, with all the usual ingredients: a region with simmering ethnic and religious unrest in a country of interest and an active minority Diaspora in the West backed by significant financial resources. All the secret services need to do to inflame the situation is to facilitate the activities of a few hundred provocateurs through Western embassy staff; The media oligopoly will look after the rest by giving international exposure to the group as the righteous being persecuted by the state machinery! The script of the story emanating from Xinjiang, the capital of Chinas Autonomous Northwestern region of Uyghur conforms to this model, to the letter.
> 
> This exploitation of an ethnic minority as the primary tool of destabilisation in particular, conforms to a pattern Sri Lanka and numerous other countries undermined by the US in the past are familiar with. The Uyghur region of China that shares common borders with poor, vulnerable Central and South Asian countries Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal, Bhutan and Bangladesh has long been targeted by the neocons in and around the US administrations as the potential epicenter of political and economic destabilisation, the means of achieving their atrocious objective of containment of China.
> 
> The aim of these conspirators was to exploit the ethnic issue in the province between the Han Chinese and theTurkic minority to ferment trouble inside China, through the Uyghur minority communities in the bordering Central Asian countries. It is a bonus that the region is also rich in oil, gas and coal!
> 
> This attempt to exploit the Turkic ethnic issue in China is all the more deplorable due to Chinas honourable record towards its ethnic minorities, especially during the Cultural Revolution: Chairman Mao Zedong refined the idea of Chinas founding father Sun Yat-sen that all people in China belong to the great family of Chinese further: he aligned it with his doctrine aimed at constructing a shared, socialist labor identity for all working people, unified by their enmity against capitalists, land owners, serf owners and other exploiters, regardless of their ethnicity. The idea of ethnicity that replaced the idea of class also made the Han and non-Han people equal economically and politically, prompting the working poor of Chinas ethnic minority groups to extend their support to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) government.
> 
> The majority Han was aggrieved however, due to the apparent reverse discrimination meted out to them in the form of decreased population proportion that resulted of the exemption of ethnic minorities from the one-child policy for example, and the privileges granted to ethnic minorities for employment and education opportunities caused. In essence, the Chinese ended up inheriting a problem not unlike that of Sri Lankas, with some Uyghurs resorting to separatist violence, and emigrating to the West.
> 
> The Uyghurs in the US were organised under a World Uyghur Congress (WUC), their government in exile, led by the 62 year old Rebiya Kadeer, a millionaire businesswoman who fled China in 2005, after serving a goal term for endangering national security, following arrest on her way to meet a visiting delegation from the US Congressional Research Service!
> 
> The Chinese government immediately traced the origins of the current violence as a pre-empted, organised violent crime instigated and directed from abroad and carried out by outlaws in the country, and blamed the WUC for orchestrating the events via the internet. Predictably, and according to the script, the WUC told Voice of America that the police had opened fire on protesters!
> 
> The timing of the events is related to the meeting of the Group of Eight (G8) meeting being held in the Italian town of LAquila, and more particularly to Chinas planned push at the meeting, together with Russia, for the need to develop a new global financial system based on several strong regional currencies rather than the US dollar that has lost all credibility.
> 
> Obviously, the US, UK end the EU considered this challenge to the supremacy their currencies needs warding off, and decided on a campaign of destabilisation to reverse the pressure. The signs as to who is behind the events, like in the Iranian case, were unmistakable: German Chancellor Angela Merkel in particular, volunteered to speak to Chinese President Hu Jintao at the meeting about the worsening violence in Xinjiang. US State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said: We call on all sides for calm and restraint. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon also chipped in, urging the Chinese government to respect their peoples right to protest. This part of the conspiracy failed however, due to the Chinese Presidents decision to cancel his plan to attend the G8 meeting and to return home after his state visit to Italy.
> 
> The crux of the matter here is Chinas call for the replacement of the US dollar with stable currencies as the major reserve currencies, and for a new mechanism to maintain tighter vigil on countries issuing reserve currencies: as a country that currently holds more than $2 trillion in foreign exchange reserves, more than 70 percent in US dollar assets, China has the perfect right as well as reasons to demand such a change because under the current framework the US dollar problem is made a Chinese problem, giving US another lever to destabilise China.
> 
> The Wests response so far has been to convert the Chinese concern to its own advantage by demanding the complete elimination of capital controls, the Holy Grail of Western search for world domination by controlling the exchange rate volatility that an open capital account generates. Add to this self-serving demand the purely political demands of legal and Human Rights reforms.
> 
> As in all matters, China is pursuing a path of slow, cautious policy toward strengthening of the yuan (renminbi) as an alternative to Western currencies and the Yen, all beset with complex problems. With time, China is likely to ease-up on is current policy of preventing the build up of sizeable amounts of the currency by speculators beyond its borders, allowing them to control the exchange rate.
> 
> The recently announced goal to turn Shanghai into an international financial center by 2020 however, suggests that China aims to make the yuan fully convertible by then. There are other developments: this year alone, China has signed 650 billion yuan ($95 billion) of currency swaps with nations from Argentina to Belarus; just this week, China started allowing companies to use the yuan to settle cross-border trade; also this week, banks in China and Hong Kong began wiring yuan directly to settle payments for imports and exports. Such developments are all steps toward establishing the yuan as a global currency  and, eventually, an international alternative to the dollar. Chinas stable economic performance and its management of the current turmoil and the 1997/98 Asian financial crisis have proved that China is a worthy contender for global economic leadership: its sheer economic size would propel the yuan to reserve currency status.
> 
> The day that the renminbi becomes fully convertible will signal a day of reckoning for the US, marking the real, final shift in global economic leadership to China: the direst practical consequence the US is dreading is that it will no longer be able to run up huge budget deficits and debt without economic penalties of the sort they are handing to the poor at the moment.
> 
> This is the reason why the US and its EU cohorts will be looking for new ways of curbing Chinas progress; but history has shown that some things are inevitable.
> *



Thank you for posting this. I hope India supports China as well, as I support India. Not long ago I warned that the US-G8-white-nations was going to stab India in the back concerning the 1-2-3 deal (Nuclear Suppliers Group)..... and it just occured at the G8 meeting in Italy. 

For all the talk about China in India, China has NOT backstabbed India (i.e. 1962 true history). Even with the small border dispute, relations are still respectful. That is much more than can be said for these "civilized non-barbaric" white-nations whose actions are HYPOCRITICAL. 

Truth is, one can trust Asian nations much more. How many times in history have Asian nations pillaged, plundered, raped, stolen, occupied foreign land??? In fact the REVERSE occured (and still is occuring). India's place is with Asia.

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## quriosity

for those who understand geo-politics better than religion... i am posting a good analytical piece here... 

Is Washington Playing a Deeper Game with China? :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website

*Is Washington Playing a Deeper Game with China?*
Politics / GeoPolitics Jul 11, 2009 - 01:55 PM

By: F_William_Engdahl 

*July 12 After the tragic events of July 5 in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in China, it would be useful to look more closely into the actual role of the US Governments independent NGO, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). All indications are that the US Government, once more acting through its private Non-Governmental Organization, the NED, is massively intervening into the internal politics of China. 

The reasons for Washingtons intervention into Xinjiang affairs seems to have little to do with concerns over alleged human rights abuses by Beijing authorities against Uyghur people. It seems rather to have very much to do with the strategic geopolitical location of Xinjiang on the Eurasian landmass and its strategic importance for Chinas future economic and energy cooperation with Russia, Kazakhastan and other Central Asia states of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

The major organization internationally calling for protests in front of Chinese embassies around the world is the Washington, D.C.-based World Uyghur Congress (WUC).

The WUC manages to finance a staff, a very fancy website in English, and has a very close relation to the US Congress-funded NED. According to published reports by the NED itself, the World Uyghur Congress receives $215,000.00 annually from the National Endowment for Democracy for human rights research and advocacy projects. The president of the WUC is an exile Uyghur who describes herself as a laundress turned millionaire, Rebiya Kadeer, who also serves as president of the Washington D.C.-based Uyghur American Association, another Uyghur human rights organization which receives significant funding from the US Government via the National Endowment for Democracy.

The NED was intimately involved in financial support to various organizations behind the Lhasa Crimson Revolution in March 2008, as well as the Saffron Revolution in Burma/Myanmar and virtually every regime change destabilization in eastern Europe over the past years from Serbia to Georgia to Ukraine to Kyrgystan to Teheran in the aftermath of the recent elections.

Allen Weinstein, who helped draft the legislation establishing NED, was quite candid when he said in a published interview in 1991: "A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA."

The NED is supposedly a private, non-government, non-profit foundation, but it receives a yearly appropriation for its international work from the US Congress. The NED money is channelled through four core foundations. These are the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs, linked to Obamas Democratic Party; the International Republican Institute tied to the Republican Party; the American Center for International Labor Solidarity linked to the AFL-CIO US labor federation as well as the US State Department; and the Center for International Private Enterprise linked to the US Chamber of Commerce.

The salient question is what has the NED been actively doing that might have encouraged the unrest in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, and what is the Obama Administration policy in terms of supporting or denouncing such NED-financed intervention into sovereign politics of states which Washington deems a target for pressure? The answers must be found soon, but one major step to help clarify Washington policy under the new Obama Administration would be for a full disclosure by the NED, the US State Department and NGOs linked to the US Government, of their involvement, if at all, in encouraging Uyghur separatism or unrest. Is it mere coincidence that the Uyghur riots take place only days following the historic meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization?

Uyghur exile organizations, China and Geopolitics

On May 18 this year, the US-governments in-house private NGO, the NED, according to the official WUC website, hosted a seminal human rights conference entitled East Turkestan: 60 Years under Communist Chinese Rule, along with a curious NGO with the name, the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organisation (UNPO).

The Honorary President and founder of the UNPO is one Erkin Alptekin, an exile Uyghur who founded UNPO while working for the US Information Agencys official propaganda organization, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty as Director of their Uygur Division and Assistant Director of the Nationalities Services.

Alptekin also founded the World Uyghur Congress at the same time, in 1991, while he was with the US Information Agency. The official mission of the USIA when Alptekin founded the World Uyghur Congress in 1991 was to understand, inform, and influence foreign publics in promotion of the [USA] national interest Alptekin was the first president of WUC, and, according to the official WUC website, is a close friend of the Dalai Lama.

Closer examination reveals that UNPO in turn to be an American geopolitical strategists dream organization. It was formed, as noted, in 1991 as the Soviet Union was collapsing and most of the land area of Eurasia was in political and economic chaos. Since 2002 its Director General has been Archduke Karl von Habsburg of Austria who lists his (unrecognized by Austria or Hungary) title as Prince Imperial of Austria and Royal Prince of Hungary.

Among the UNPO principles is the right to self-determination for the 57 diverse population groups who, by some opaque process not made public, have been admitted as official UNPO members with their own distinct flags, with a total population of some 150 million peoples and headquarters in the Hague, Netherlands.

UNPO members range from Kosovo which joined when it was fully part of then Yugoslavia in 1991. It includes the Aboriginals of Australia who were listed as founding members along with Kosovo. It includes the Buffalo River Dene Nation indians of northern Canada. 

The select UNPO members also include Tibet which is listed as a founding member. It also includes other explosive geopolitical areas as the Crimean Tartars, the Greek Minority in Romania, the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (in Russia), the Democratic Movement of Burma, and the gulf enclave adjacent to Angola and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and which just happens to hold rights to some of the worlds largest offshore oil fields leased to Condi Rices old firm, Chevron Oil. Further geopolitical hotspots which have been granted elite recognition by the UNPO membership include the large section of northern Iran which designates itself as Southern Azerbaijan, as well as something that calls itself Iranian Kurdistan.

In April 2008 according to the website of the UNPO, the US Congress NED sponsored a leadership training seminar for the World Uyghur Congress (WUC) together with the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization. Over 50 Uyghurs from around the world together with prominent academics, government representatives and members of the civil society gathered in Berlin Germany to discuss Self-Determination under International Law. What they discussed privately is not known. Rebiya Kadeer gave the keynote address.

The suspicious timing of the Xinjiang riots

The current outbreak of riots and unrest in Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang in the northwest part of China, exploded on July 5 local time.

According to the website of the World Uyghur Congress, the trigger for the riots was an alleged violent attack on June 26 in Chinas southern Guangdong Province at a toy factory where the WUC alleges that Han Chinese workers attacked and beat to death two Uyghur workers for allegedly raping or sexually molesting two Han Chinese women workers in the factory. On July 1, the Munich arm of the WUC issued a worldwide call for protest demonstrations against Chinese embassies and consulates for the alleged Guangdong attack, despite the fact they admitted the details of the incident were unsubstantiated and filled with allegations and dubious reports.

According to a press release they issued, it was that June 26 alleged attack that gave the WUC the grounds to issue their worldwide call to action.

On July 5, a Sunday in Xinjiang but still the USA Independence Day, July 4, in Washington, the WUC in Washington claimed that Han Chinese armed soldiers seized any Uyghur they found on the streets and according to official Chinese news reports, widespread riots and burning of cars along the streets of Urumqi broke out resulting over the following three days in over 140 deaths.

Chinas official Xinhua News Agency said that protesters from the Uighur Muslim ethnic minority group began attacking ethnic Han pedestrians, burning vehicles and attacking buses with batons and rocks. "They took to the street...carrying knives, wooden batons, bricks and stones," they cited an eyewitness as saying. The French AFP news agency quoted Alim Seytoff, general secretary of the Uighur American Association in Washington, that according to his information, police had begun shooting "indiscriminately" at protesting crowds.

Two different versions of the same events: The Chinese government and pictures of the riots indicate it was Uyghur riot and attacks on Han Chinese residents that resulted in deaths and destruction. French official reports put the blame on Chinese police shooting indiscriminately. Significantly, the French AFP report relies on the NED-funded Uyghur American Association of Rebiya Kadeer for its information. The reader should judge if the AFP account might be motivated by a US geopolitical agenda, a deeper game from the Obama Administration towards Chinas economic future.

Is it merely coincidence that the riots in Xinjiang by Uyghur organizations broke out only days after the meeting took place in Yakaterinburg, Russia of the member nations of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, as well as Iran as official observer guest, represented by President Ahmadinejad?

Over the past few years, in the face of what is seen as an increasingly hostile and incalculable United States foreign policy, the major nations of EurasiaChina, Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan have increasingly sought ways of direct and more effective cooperation in economic as well as security areas. In addition, formal Observer status within SCO has been given to Iran, Pakistan, India and Mongolia. The SCO defense ministers are in regular and growing consultation on mutual defense needs, as NATO and the US military command continue provocatively to expand across the region wherever it can.

The Strategic Importance of Xinjiang for Eurasian Energy Infrastructure

There is another reason for the nations of the SCO, a vital national security element, to having peace and stability in Chinas Xinjiang region. Some of Chinas most important oil and gas pipeline routes pass directly through Xinjiang province. Energy relations between Kazkhstan and China are of enormous strategic importance for both countries, and allow China to become less dependent on oil supply sources that can be cut off by possible US interdiction should relations deteriorate to such a point.

Kazak President Nursultan Nazarbayev paid a State visit in April 2009 to Beijing. The talks concerned deepening economic cooperation, above all in the energy area, where Kazkhastan holds huge reserves of oil and likely as well of natural gas. After the talks in Beijing, Chinese media carried articles with such titles as "Kazakhstani oil to fill in the Great Chinese pipe."

The Atasu-Alashankou pipeline to be completed in 2009 will provide transportation of transit gas to China via Xinjiang. As well Chinese energy companies are involved in construction of a Zhanazholskiy gas processing plant, Pavlodar electrolyze plant and Moynakskaya hydro electric station in Kazakhstan. *







*According to the US Governments Energy Information Administration, Kazakhstans Kashagan field is the largest oil field outside the Middle East and the fifth largest in the world in terms of reserves, located off the northern shore of the Caspian Sea, near the city of Atyrau. China has built a 613-mile-long pipeline from Atasu, in northwestern Kazakhstan, to Alashankou at the border of China's Xinjiang region which is exporting Caspian oil to China. PetroChinas ChinaOil is the exclusive buyer of the crude oil on the Chinese side. The pipeline is a joint venture of CNPC and Kaztransoil of Kazkhstan. Some 85,000 bbl/d of Kazakh crude oil flowed through the pipeline during 2007. Chinas CNPC is also involved in other major energy projects with Kazkhstan. They all traverse Chinas Xinjiang region.

In 2007 CNPC signed an agreement to invest more than $2 billion to construct a natural gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan to China. That pipeline would start at Gedaim on the border of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan and extend 1,100 miles through Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan to Khorgos in China's Xinjiang region. Turkmenistan and China have signed a 30-year supply agreement for the gas that would fill the pipeline. CNPC has set up two entities to oversee the Turkmen upstream project and the development of a second pipeline that will cross China from the Xinjiang region to southeast China at a cost of some $7 billion. *

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2009/July/china-11-2.gif

*As well, Russia and China are discussing major natural gas pipelines from eastern Siberia through Xinjiang into China. Eastern Siberia contains around 135 Trillion cubic feet of proven plus probable natural gas reserves. The Kovykta natural gas field could give China with natural gas in the next decade via a proposed pipeline.

During the current global economic crisis, Kazakhstan received a major credit from China of $10 billion, half of which is for oil and gas sector. The oil pipeline Atasu-Alashankou and the gas pipeline China-Central Asia, are an instrument of strategic 'linkage' of central Asian countries to the economy China. That Eurasian cohesion from Russia to China across Central Asian countries is the geopolitical cohesion Washington most fears. While they would never say so, growing instability in Xinjiang would be an ideal way for Washington to weaken that growing cohesion of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization nations.*

By F. William Engdahl
F W Engdahl 

Is Washington Playing a Deeper Game with China? :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website


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## paritosh

we all have our territorial disputes and those damn separatists...India has them,Pakistan has them China has them Russia has them.So rather than dig pot-holes at each other for 'the mistreatment of people' rights'...we should let the eagle perch and the hawk perch...for howsoever similar or dissimilar these separatist movements appear to even a trained eye...they are better left to the respective nation to deal with.

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## ARSENAL6

paritosh said:


> we all have our territorial disputes and those damn separatists...India has them,Pakistan has them China has them Russia has them.So rather than dig pot-holes at each other for 'the mistreatment of people' rights'...we should let the eagle perch and the hawk perch...for howsoever similar or dissimilar these separatist movements appear to even a trained eye...they are better left to the respective nation to deal with.



Ah but have you ever wondered why that America, Canada, Australia and Europe don't have that problem ?

Too much of a coincidence i'd say !


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## aimarraul

skeptic9 said:


> ^ Ya 10&#37; growth, excellent..carry on
> 
> Glory of Roman Empire was achieved on the sufferings of slaves too.


chinese enjoy to be &#8220;slaves&#8221;,that's probably why we lost 50 million lives in WW2&#65292;enjoy your free lives as well.


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## applesauce

they did arrest 1400 people, plus open fire on the crowds yea that'll be a field day for western media. however i do agree there were signs that they should have caught up on. but again this is not the first time someone has missed an impotent piece of information... think 9/11 read up it and u'll see there were readily identifiable signs like people with links to terrorists being allow to take flight training. and about india's Special forces.... mumbai attack.... enough said.


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## applesauce

DarkStar said:


> It is on the basis of thei Historical claim, that Pakistan ceded to China a part of Kashmiri territory that China had claimed.
> 
> However, the issue is not about seperatism in Xinjiang, but the treatment of the Uighur community of Xinjiang.
> 
> They should have equal rights and opportunities as Chinese Han. A Uighur cannot go to South East China, and register as a citizen, yet the demographics of Xinjiang have been altered by incentivised migration.
> 
> Considering all the natural resources that the Center extracts from Xinjian, the Uighurs of xinjiang at least desrve a proper education and access to jobs. People are only interested in bettering their lives and those of their children, the Uighurs are no different.
> 
> Comparing their human aspirations with the intentions of terrorists, and using the Han Chinese communities there as a hammer to beat them when they ask for equal rights as chinese citizens is a big mistake by the authorities, and may exacerbate the problem to the extent that seperatist feeling could take root.



ummm they do have rights to education and employment, they can choose to go to a normal chinese school like every other chinese person or they can choose to go to their own minority school...and then the reason they do not get employed as much is mainly because but the language and some extent cultural barrier, why hire someone you cant communicate well with? and who the hell says they cant be a citizen of china?

anyways yes, demographics of Xinjiang have been altered by incentivised migration but again that is part of the go "west" plan but mainly what the uighurs are complaining about aside from culture blab, blab, is that they arnt the ones getting the jobs... 

also as much as they may hate it the best way right now for them to "better their lives and those of their children " is to become a part of chinese society i know they may hate this but that way they will have equal chance as everyone else to work and live rather that riot will will only hinder development. liek someone once said, you win some you lose some, fact of life.

also they are not labled as terrorists only the east Turkmenistan seperatist movement is, use of suicide bombs and other terrorist acts constitutes a terrorist 

again in the end they do have as much rights as every other chinese person in fact they have more than an average han person the root problem is their refusal to become a part of modern chinese sociaty, if they did, it will only benefit them. but they dont see it that way it is all about us, us, us to them where as the central government is more incline to view the nation as a whole because most of the people agree the nation must be worked on as a whole.(not including tibet, xinjiang, and taiwan) however the way that opening up to the west and capitalism work is that some parts of the country will be richer than others ie: the eastern seaboard , but this is the reason why the "go west" plan was created: to better distribute the wealth

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## applesauce

skeptic9 said:


> ^ Ya 10% growth, excellent..carry on
> 
> Glory of Roman Empire was achieved on the sufferings of slaves too.



please, growth of china's economy is dubbed a economic miracle and unprecedented in the history of the world something ur country would beg to achieve.

then again, better a slave with food water and shelter rather than a staving dehydrated fool with no toilet.

with that said lets see ur country lift its 400 million plus out of poverty before you open ur mouth okay


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## applesauce

shravan said:


> *Off Topic*
> 
> What was the real reason behind Tiananmen Square Incident ?



short version

student protests for democracy, kinda like what happened in east europe, at first the authorities let it happen then as more and more people joined the government started to worry, seeing as how the situation in east Europe and other communist countries are like. so they tried to clear the area out and get people to go home but the students wouldn't budge so martial law was declared, a lot of people left when the troops came in but some hardcore people stayed and then the tanks started rolling in and they started to shoot, in the end a bunch of people died, the west went nuts about it, sanctions were place, that video of the tank guy was made. in the end the government justified the crack down with the economic miracle that followed.


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## aimarraul

minority school for Uighurs




















minority school for Tibetan


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## sob

This is a typical riot that has happened in China. The reasons are primarily economic with religious/ethnic undertones.

Due to the ham handed attitude of the PRC authorities, banning press, censoring internet, the situation has blown up on the face of the authorities. Now the situation is such that if they do something they are damned and if they sit back they are still damned.

An absence of democratic institutions, a free press, NGOs etc has led to the tense stand off which is nowhere under control.


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## pmukherjee

ARSENAL6 said:


> Ah but have you ever wondered why that America, Canada, Australia and Europe don't have that problem ?
> 
> Too much of a coincidence i'd say !



Yeah and the Basque separatists(ETA) and IRA operate in the Antartica right? Not to mention the Red October. Of course America does not have problems with the native Americans or Red Indians as they killed them all, likewise with the aboriginies in Australia. Tell me what is common to America, Canada and Australia? They are lands colonised by the Europeans. Mainly British but also French, German and some Spanish. The settlers either killed off or drove away the indigenous population and created settlements. How do you reconcile separatism with such homogenous population? Asia on the other hand was already populated when the Europeans arrived for exploitation and profiteering. Much of the instability in Asia and Africa is due to lack of application of mind and gross insensitivity on the part of the Europeans when they drew international borders. It would be better to get one's facts right before making sweeping statements.


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## applesauce

i do feel that maybe the government can do more, people need to vent, better to talk sh1t on the internet than going around murdering people

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## oct605032048

ARSENAL6 said:


> Ah but have you ever wondered why that America, Canada, Australia and Europe don't have that problem ?
> 
> Too much of a coincidence i'd say !



because the native people in these countries_____indians for example had been killed and their culture erased by the 'settlers'.

maybe the party boss in zhongnanhai should do the same.


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## BanglaBhoot

*Unrest in Xinjiang: Wheres the Muslim outrage?*
*
Muslims around the world have largely remained silent about last week's deadly riots between Han Chinese and Uighurs. What makes this case of 'oppression' of Muslims different than others?*

By Matthew Clark | 07.13.09

Shhhh! I think I just heard a pin drop.

Nope. Its just more deafening silence from the Muslim Street in the wake of last weeks ethnic riot that killed more than 184 in Chinas restive Xinjiang Province, home to the Uighurs, a Muslim minority group.

According to the Chinese government, the majority of the victims in the riot were Han Chinese, attacked by Uighurs whove complained for decades about being marginalized, abused, neglected, and oppressed ever since former Communist leader Mao Zedong launched a campaign to flood Xinjiang with Han Chinese in 1960s. But many of the victims were Uighurs, too, and thousands of Uighurs were arrested as a result of the melee. Many could face execution.

China also closed mosques last week  just one of many strict limits on freedom of expression in Xinjiang.

Its the kind of stuff that would arouse passionate protests if a Western country were the one cracking down. (Remember the apoplectic protests over the Danish cartoon of Prophet Muhammad?)

But there were no Chinese flags burned in Karachi. No effigies of Hu Jintao smoldered in Cairo. No Death to China chants echoed through the streets of Tehran.

Not that the Monitor would ever be in favor of such protests against any country. But why does it seem as though there such a different reponse for China?

The Uighurs spiritual leader, Rebiya Kadeer (profiled here by the Monitors Beijing Bureau Chief Peter Ford), has some ideas.

So far the Islamic world is silent about the Uighurs suffering because the Chinese authorities have been very successful in [their] propaganda to the Muslim world  that the Uighurs are extremely pro-west Muslims - that they are modern Muslims, not genuine Muslims, she said at a press conference Monday in Washington.

Ms. Kadeer contrasted a lack of action from Muslim countries with the support Uighurs get from Western democracies and called on Muslim nations to do more.

Turkey drops the G-word

Days later, Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan called the situation genocide and thousands of Turks protested Chinas treatment of Uighurs on Sunday. Turks share ethnic and cultural bonds with the Turkic-speaking Uighurs, so the support in Turkey goes beyond sympathy for fellow Muslims allegedly being oppressed by non-believers.

Irans clerics speak out

Iranian critics are starting to get into the act, too.

Grand Ayatollah Nasser Makarem Shirazi, a high-level cleric, demanded that Irans foreign ministry quickly condemn what he described as the Chinese governments horrible backing of racist Han Chinese.

The news website Tabnak, backed by, Mohsen Rezai, conservative challenger of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, accused the government of hypocrisy in ignoring violence against fellow Muslims: When Israel was striking Gaza, state radio and television aired round-the-clock reports and analyses about the massacre of Muslims, but now only short reports are heard. . . . During the Israeli invasion of Gaza, nearly 1,000 died in 20 days  or 50 per day. In Chinas riots, nearly 100 Muslims were killed in a day. Our government is silent regarding clear carnage.

But, by and large, the Muslim Street has been just as silent.

A plea from the Palestinian territories 

Muslims around the world have an absolute religious, moral, and human duty to identify with their oppressed brothers and sisters in [Xinjiang], journalist Khalid Amayreh in an opinion piece on Islam Online, comparing the Uighurs plight to that of the Palestinians. Muslims, as the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said, must never betray or abandon other Muslims, especially in time of distress. Unfortunately, however, Muslim states and Muslim peoples alike have been largely silent in the face of these atrocities in [Xinjiang].

Will this change? Well see.

Unrest in Xinjiang: Where&#8217;s the Muslim outrage? | csmonitor.com


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## AirforcePilot

^^^^ I think ALL countries should speak out and demand an end to the violence inflicted on the Uighurs by the Chinese government.


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## Patriot

AirforcePilot said:


> ^^^^ I think ALL countries should speak out and demand an end to the violence inflicted on the Uighurs by the Chinese government.


lol, what about the violence caused by illegal invasion of Iraq by United States?If anything Chinese government is trying to stop violence..You sound like John Mccain when he said that nations dont invade other sovergion nations in 21st century(Russian Invasion of Georgia) OTOH, he himself was biggest advocate of Iran invasion,.

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## gpit

MBI Munshi said:


> *Unrest in Xinjiang: Where&#8217;s the Muslim outrage?*
> 
> ...
> 
> Turkey drops the G-word
> 
> ...



Turky itself is the biggest G, killed about 1.5 million Armenians...and still denies it. 



> *Armenian Genocide in Turkey 1915*
> 
> 
> Before the beginning of World War 1, about 2,5 million Armenians had been living in the Ottoman empire but in 1923, after the end of the war and final annihilation of Armenians, only a very few Armenians ( 50,000 ) were living in Istanbul, in very deplorable conditions. But where did the others go?!
> ...
> Armenian Genocide in Turkey 1915


 
When a wolf prays for sheep...


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## gpit

*About Rebiya Kadeer *

Rebiya Kadeer was born in 1951 in Altai City at the foot of the mountain Altai, Xinjiang. At the age of 14, she married to a family in South Xinjiang. In 11 years after the marriage, she gave birth to six children.

During the Cultural Revolution, because of selling child shoes and colored skirts, she was deemed as an &#8220;illegal speculator&#8221; and publicly paraded. She and her husband were thus divorced.

After opening-up policy around 1978, she rented a small place in Urumqi and started her business career. After 10 years hard work, she was once estimated to be the richest woman in Xinjiang and the 8th riches in the country (Forbes). Reportedly she has received great deal of help from the government in her business success, for the latter wanted her to be a model for all Uighur women.

Rebiya married to her second husband Sidik Rouzi in 1981. Reportedly she put forth 3 requirements for her future husband after first divorce: 1) Must be graduated from a University; 2) Must be divorced and be abandoned by his former wife; 3) Must understand her and support her business.

Rebiya Kadeer was once celebrated as a model Uyghur businesswoman, and in 1995 her success won her a place in China's official delegation to the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing. In 1997 she was involved in creating the "Thousand Mothers Movement" - a forum promoting the rights of ethnic minority women, and creating employment opportunities for them. The forum was launched in Rebiya Kadeer's department store in Urumqi, and at a second meeting of the "Thousand Mothers Movement", she spoke about the power of women and her desire to help Uyghur mothers, many of whom wished to work to help sustain their families, but had no opportunity to do so. Rebiya Kadeer had also been an official member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), a broad-based official body which includes representatives of the Chinese Communist Party, other official political parties, mass organizations and other key figures. 

Rebiya was also a philanthropist who supported Uighur cultural activities and promoting education among minority children, especially girls.

The one thing that had changed in her life since the height of her success was that, in 1996, her second husband, Sidik Rouzi, fled to the United States and was granted political asylum. 1996 was when the ET got a full support from US government. ET forces claimed to &#8220;start in 96, make big in 97, and archieve full indepencednce in 2000&#8221;.

Sidik Rouzi was reportedly a univeristy teacher, a long time separatist promoter and a Han hater. 

Reportedly Sidik Rouzi drafted an article and gave it to Rebiya, and she copied and renamed it to &#8220;To All American People&#8221;. She was arrested when she attempted to hand this to US delegate in Yindu Hotel, Urumqi. 

In 1998, she was banned from re-election to the CPPCC, ostensibly because she had failed to condemn her husband's "separatist" activities in the USA. Sidik Rouzi works for Radio Free Asia.

Rabiya Kadeer has 5 children (out of total 11), 3 sisters, and a brother now live in the United States, in addition to her husband.

----------
_The above info are from sources with opposite views, with obvious propaganda words removed. Some may not be upto date.

Perhaps it would serve her Uighurs better, if she did not take the confrontational position, but uses her political and economical power already established in China.

What do you think?_


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## gambit

Patriot said:


> lol, *what about the violence caused by illegal invasion of Iraq by United States?*If anything Chinese government is trying to stop violence..You sound like John Mccain when he said that nations dont invade other sovergion nations in 21st century(Russian Invasion of Georgia) OTOH, he himself was biggest advocate of Iran invasion,.


That make no sense. If the violence in Iraq is 'caused' by the US invasion, then we can say that the current violence in China is 'caused' by the way the Chinese government treat ethnic minorities under their rule. And what make you think the US is not trying to stop the violence in Iraq?

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## quriosity

gambit said:


> That make no sense. If the violence in Iraq is 'caused' by the US invasion, then we can say that the current violence in China is 'caused' by the way the Chinese government treat ethnic minorities under their rule. And what make you think the US is not trying to stop the violence in Iraq?



yes... & the 9/11 was 'caused' by the way US treats Muslims under its global rule... 

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------




AirforcePilot said:


> ^^^^ I think ALL countries should speak out and demand an end to the violence inflicted on the Uighurs by the Chinese government.



stop your fake war on terror first.... airforcepolot...

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## oct605032048

quriosity said:


> yes... & the 9/11 was 'caused' by the way US treats Muslims under its global rule...
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> stop your fake war on terror first.... airforcepolot...



it look like we share the same opinion for this time.


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## gambit

quriosity said:


> yes... & the 9/11 was 'caused' by the way US treats Muslims under its global rule...


The US is the largest single aid donor to the Palestinians over any Arab country. We saved the ME from the Nazis and the Soviets. We saved the muslims in Yugoslavia. We treat the muslims better than they treat each other.



quriosity said:


> stop your fake war on terror first.... airforcepolot...


What is so 'fake' about it?


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## fhassan

gambit said:


> The US is the largest single aid donor to the Palestinians over any Arab country.



perhaps - also the single greatest provider of the bullets that hail down onto them...


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## gambit

fhassan said:


> perhaps - also the single greatest provider of the bullets that hail down onto them...


Do you have any concrete evidences that says the US ordered Israel into the current conflict? Or is it more that every state has the right to defend itself regardless of what its allies may do or say?


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## AirforcePilot

quriosity said:


> yes... & the 9/11 was 'caused' by the way US treats Muslims under its global rule...
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> stop your fake war on terror first.... airforcepolot...



Nothing fake about the war. If we Americans are such a bad people, why do we give aid, both military and humanitarian to Muslim country's? Blaming USA for all the ills in the world is a pretty lame argument.


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## applesauce

AirforcePilot said:


> Nothing fake about the war. If we Americans are such a bad people, why do we give aid, both military and humanitarian to Muslim country's? Blaming USA for all the ills in the world is a pretty lame argument.



nothing fake? the reason for the invading of iraq was fake, where are the WMD's???? where is the proof that iraq worked with the Taliban? 
where is the great welcome of troops by the iraqi peoples that were promissed by the us government??

as for the aid, iraq and afgansitan constitutes 57% of us aid to the muslim world. while total developmental aid to the muslim world stand at about 48% of total the weapons aid is 77% of total, so what are its interest???? now also consider the developmental aid is about 9.1 billion, the us spend about a trillion dollars on its WOT so far

now lets compare this aid to the us aid to isreal, in 1997 alone In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion since 1949 total aid is around 150 billionish



now im not blaming the USA for the worlds troubles, the US does give where they dont have to. my point is 

1. obviously the us would go to war after 9/11 but the extent of the reaction and the invasion of Iraq(without UN approval)...that part constitute a fake war, a war sold to the American public through lies and high patriotic fervor at the time
2. the USA is not the devil, but most definitely it is not a saint either, no one is, all nations work towards their own goal so some make then out to be some kinda of humanitarian

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## jetLi

quriosity said:


> but... han chinese are not muslims...
> 
> Hui people, Uyghur people, Kazak, Dongxiang people, Kyrgyz, Salar, Tajiks of Xinjiang, Uzbeks, Bonan, Chinese Tatars, and Tibetan Muslims... are muslims...
> 
> Islam in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


yes, you know a little abou china.
but do you know that Uyghur people also kill Hui people and Kazak people, and even some Uyghur people. 
Some Uyghur people want to set up a Turkey country and take a lot 
of terror in the past.
This is not a simple religion conflict (because Uyghur are not favored by Hui and Kazak chinese), they are just a terriost group.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

AirforcePilot said:


> Nothing fake about the war. If we Americans are such a bad people, why do we give aid, both military and humanitarian to Muslim country's? Blaming USA for all the ills in the world is a pretty lame argument.



*Ahem* Larry "Lucky" Silverstein's confession video. *ahem*


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## jetLi

AirforcePilot said:


> ^^^^ I think ALL countries should speak out and demand an end to the violence inflicted on the Uighurs by the Chinese government.



by your theory, USA should end your violence to Taliban first.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

jetLi said:


> by your theory, USA should end your violence to Taliban first.



He has no theory that he holds himself to. His theory originates from his arse and it changes from time-to-time, from place-to-place to fit his needs only.


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## gambit

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> *Ahem* Larry "Lucky" Silverstein's confession video. *ahem*


*Ahem* Debunked *ahem*


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## gambit

applesauce said:


> nothing fake? the reason for the invading of iraq was fake,


Nothing 'fake' about them. The reasons, multiple, for Iraq was to prevent Iraq from becoming a nuclear weapons state, to search for functional nuclear weapons devices if any exists, and to overthrow the Saddam Hussein regime.



applesauce said:


> where are the WMD's????


Do not forget to ask the UN about that since the initials 'WMD' involves much more than functional nuclear warheads. Most people do not realize it but every UN inspection team chiefs have been non-Americans. That is by design: Butler (Aus), Ekeus (Swiss) and Blix (Swiss). If the initials 'WMD' does not include far more than just functional nuclear warheads, then what are the legal justifications for UN inspections in the first place? Why did none of these men spoke up about the flawed reasonings but instead all of them prosecuted the inspection regimes to the fullest? Butler in his book _The Greatest Threat_ recalled how Iraq security forces attempted murders on his teams as they went about their duties.



applesauce said:


> where is the proof that iraq worked with the Taliban?


Did we claimed such links exists? No...But in being prudent after a decade of Saddam's hatred towards US and on the Sept. 11, 2001 attack, we would be foolish not to explore such a possbility. Are you telling all here that no other governments would have done the same?



applesauce said:


> where is the great welcome of troops by the iraqi peoples that were promissed by the us government??


This has nothing to do with WMD. Frankly, we do not really care if any Iraqi cheered US on. But you might want to read some books by journalists who left The Green Zone and interact with ordinary Iraqis. They cannot afford to be openly glad that the US overthrew Saddam Hussein lest they and their families be killed.



applesauce said:


> as for the aid, iraq and afgansitan constitutes 57% of us aid to the muslim world. while total developmental aid to the muslim world stand at about 48% of total the weapons aid is 77% of total, so what are its interest???? now also consider the developmental aid is about 9.1 billion, the us spend about a trillion dollars on its WOT so far


We are obligated to fund any war against any enemy who threatened US. We are not obligated to be charitable.



applesauce said:


> now lets compare this aid to the us aid to isreal, in 1997 alone In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion since 1949 total aid is around 150 billionish


So what? When I was a field service engineer for Santa Clara Plastics many years ago, Intel Israel was one of my install clients. Intel Israel produced the Pentium processor. Care to take a guess at how much in dollars *THE WORLD* profitted from the Jews just from this product alone? Given this level of accomplishment from this advanced society, why should we not give preference to such an ally? For the Arabs, their oil came from foreign minds and they are so lazy they import foreign workers to do manual labors and to abuse.



applesauce said:


> now im not blaming the USA for the worlds troubles,


Really? Could have fooled me.

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## applesauce

*"Nothing 'fake' about them. The reasons, multiple, for Iraq was to prevent Iraq from becoming a nuclear weapons state, to search for functional nuclear weapons devices if any exists, and to overthrow the Saddam Hussein regime."*

they werent working on a nuclear weapon, there is absolutely no evidence that they were. in fact the only reactor they had was heavly damage by the Israelis and was never repairs, that reactor couldnt product nuclear weapons anyways(according to the french who sold it to iraq). i agree on the part about overthrowing the Saddam Hussein regime. this is about the only part that i agreed with as he was a terrible dictator

*"Do not forget to ask the UN about that since the initials 'WMD' involves much more than functional nuclear warheads. Most people do not realize it but every UN inspection team chiefs have been non-Americans. That is by design: Butler (Aus), Ekeus (Swiss) and Blix (Swiss). If the initials 'WMD' does not include far more than just functional nuclear warheads, then what are the legal justifications for UN inspections in the first place? Why did none of these men spoke up about the flawed reasonings but instead all of them prosecuted the inspection regimes to the fullest? Butler in his book The Greatest Threat recalled how Iraq security forces attempted murders on his teams as they went about their duties."*

the un ispections are to make sure ur not making WMDs and that the materials are accounted for. anyways the case for war specifically linked iraq to nuclear weapons
*
"Did we claimed such links exists? No...But in being prudent after a decade of Saddam's hatred towards US and on the Sept. 11, 2001 attack, we would be foolish not to explore such a possbility. Are you telling all here that no other governments would have done the same?"*

Oh really? --> Bush Defends Assertions of Iraq-Al Qaeda Relationship (washingtonpost.com)
the title is very clear read it urself

Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says - CNN.com
read the 4th paragraph
*

"This has nothing to do with WMD. Frankly, we do not really care if any Iraqi cheered US on. But you might want to read some books by journalists who left The Green Zone and interact with ordinary Iraqis. They cannot afford to be openly glad that the US overthrew Saddam Hussein lest they and their families be killed."*

never said it did just mentioning the terrible preplanned and the fiasco that came out of it

*
"We are obligated to fund any war against any enemy who threatened US. We are not obligated to be charitable."*

never said the us was obligated to be charitable, i was repling the mention and the US give aid to the Muslim world i was making the contrast that it is also arming those who the majority of the Muslim world considers an enemy

*"So what? When I was a field service engineer for Santa Clara Plastics many years ago, Intel Israel was one of my install clients. Intel Israel produced the Pentium processor. Care to take a guess at how much in dollars THE WORLD profitted from the Jews just from this product alone? Given this level of accomplishment from this advanced society, why should we not give preference to such an ally? For the Arabs, their oil came from foreign minds and they are so lazy they import foreign workers to do manual labors and to abuse."*

again i was only making a contrast, but what does "their oil came from foreign minds" mean?

*Really? Could have fooled me.*

REally? cause my post mentions only 2 things 
1. the FAKE war in iraq(the reason for it)
2. a comparison of aid
3. never said anywhere the cause of the worlds problem originates from the usa
4. you must be easily fooled then


----------



## gambit

> Do not forget to ask the UN about that since the initials 'WMD' involves much more than functional nuclear warheads. Most people do not realize it but every UN inspection team chiefs have been non-Americans. That is by design: Butler (Aus), Ekeus (Swiss) and Blix (Swiss). If the initials 'WMD' does not include far more than just functional nuclear warheads, then what are the legal justifications for UN inspections in the first place? Why did none of these men spoke up about the flawed reasonings but instead all of them prosecuted the inspection regimes to the fullest? Butler in his book _The Greatest Threat_ recalled how Iraq security forces attempted murders on his teams as they went about their duties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> applesauce said:
> 
> 
> 
> they werent working on a nuclear weapon, there is absolutely no evidence that they were. in fact the only reactor they had was heavly damage by the Israelis and was never repairs, that reactor couldnt product nuclear weapons anyways(according to the french who sold it to iraq). i agree on the part about overthrowing the Saddam Hussein regime. this is about the only part that i agreed with as he was a terrible dictator
> 
> *the un ispections are to make sure ur not making WMDs* and that the materials are accounted for. anyways the case for war specifically linked iraq to nuclear weapons
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Wrong...Here is what the IAEA actually does...

Publications: IAEA Factsheets and FAQs

Under _Tools for Nuclear Inspections_ are important information regarding nuclear technologies and nuclear *WEAPONS* technologies, distinct categories, that you as a layman should know before making this kind of statement. UN nuclear inspections were to ensure that the current nuclear technologies a country possess does not cross the threshold into nuclear weapons technology capabilities. Iraq does not need to have a functional nuclear reactor in order to have a clandestine nuclear weapons program. Refined uranium can be purchased on the black market. The tools that UNMOVIC and UNSCOM used do not look for clearly obvious items like triggers or shaped charges that are used to compress fissionable materials. Those tools, like Swipe Sampling or Multi-channel analyzers, checks for evidences that certain nuclear technologies are being pushed beyond what is necessary to produce electricity. When Saddam ordered his thugs to harass inspectors, even to the point of endangering the inspectors' lives, there are no doubts as to what Saddam was hiding, which is the *CAPABILITY* to produce nuclear weapons.



> Did we claimed such links exists? No...But in being prudent after a decade of Saddam's hatred towards US and on the Sept. 11, 2001 attack, we would be foolish not to explore such a possbility. Are you telling all here that no other governments would have done the same?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> applesauce said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really? --> Bush Defends Assertions of Iraq-Al Qaeda Relationship (washingtonpost.com)
> *the title is very clear read it urself*
> 
> Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says - CNN.com
> read the 4th paragraph
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

*It would be better for YOU if you had actually read the report, not merely the title, for here is what YOUR source read...



"This administration never said that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated between Saddam and al Qaeda," Bush said. "We did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda."

Click to expand...

The Bush Administration never claimed that Saddam Hussein had any direct involvement with the attack on US on Sept. 11, 2001. But it is only a prudent response that ANY leader in our shoes would look for such a link.







This has nothing to do with WMD. Frankly, we do not really care if any Iraqi cheered US on. But you might want to read some books by journalists who left The Green Zone and interact with ordinary Iraqis. They cannot afford to be openly glad that the US overthrew Saddam Hussein lest they and their families be killed."

Click to expand...




applesauce said:



never said it did just mentioning the terrible preplanned and the fiasco that came out of it

Click to expand...



Click to expand...

You questioned as to why there were no rejoicing among the Iraqis once Saddam Hussein was removed. There are plenty of evidences that ordinary Iraqis were glad, except that out of fear for their lives they could not express it.

Amazon.com: In the Red Zone: A Journey into the Soul of Iraq: Steven Vincent: Books

That book was one of the many journalists who dared to venture beyond the safety of the Green Zone and talked to numerous ordinary Iraqis. I can cite the author from any chapter. As far as we are concern, the silencing of ordinary Iraqis because of sectarian violence says far more about Iraqi society than it is about post invasion occupation by US. Finally, Steven Vincent was killed in Iraq while investigating Iraqi police corruption.







We are obligated to fund any war against any enemy who threatened US. We are not obligated to be charitable."

Click to expand...




applesauce said:



never said the us was obligated to be charitable, i was repling the mention and the US give aid to the Muslim world i was making the contrast that it is also arming those who the majority of the Muslim world considers an enemy

Click to expand...



Click to expand...

Are you implying that we gave arms to Israel strictly for the purpose of Palestinians oppression?



applesauce said:



again i was only making a contrast, but what does "their oil came from foreign minds" mean?

Click to expand...

That the Arabs would not know what to do with the oil.*


----------



## Gabbar

*China Govt PR campaign targets country's Muslims*

The chorus of smiling Muslims and Han Chinese wore matching yellow polo shirts and appeared on television singing: We are all part of the same family. The TV spot Wednesday was the latest effort in a relentless propaganda campaign by the Chinese government to end the worst ethnic rioting in the far western Xinjiang region in decades. 

But the message was falling flat on the streets of the dusty jade-trading oasis city of Hotan, where many Muslims are still seething with resentment over the Han, the dominant ethnic group in China. The residents spoke about the long-standing tensions in hushed voices in the Silk Road towns bustling bazaar, where donkeys pulled carts piled high with melons, and women in colorful head scarves sold wheels of flat bread that looked like pizza crust. 

One Muslim shopkeeper picked up a hatchet, raised it over his head and lowered it with one quick stroke before saying, Thats the best way to deal with the Han Chinese. The store owner, who only identified himself as Abdul, scoffed at the TV shows featuring members of his own Turkic minority ethnic group, the Uighurs, gushing about how harmonious and happy most of the people are in the sprawling oil-rich Xinjiang region, three times the size of Texas. 

I dont believe these people, the businessman said with a whisper, as he scouted the street for plainclothes police. They get paid to say these things. Ninety percent of the Uighurs dont believe that stuff. The media campaign began after July 5 when ethnic rioting killed at least 192 people in Xinjiangs capital, Urumqi. The violence started when police broke up a Uighur demonstration in the citys main square, and the protesters scattered throughout the city, smashing windows, torching cars and beating Han Chinese. Two days later, groups of Han Chinese men went on a rampage against the Uighurs. 

In the first days after the rioting, state-run media provided extensive reports about Uighurs savagely attacking Han Chinese, while playing down the subsequent Han-led violence. The government was quick to frame the Uighur attacks as an act of terrorism by a tiny minority of violent miscreants, led by the U.S.-based Uighur dissident Rebiya Kadeer. 

Kadeer has repeatedly denied the allegations and has condemned the violence. As thousands of security forces restored order in Urumqi, the governments propaganda campaign kicked in with TV shows, loudspeaker trucks and red banners. Many slogans warned against the three evil forces of terrorism, separatism and extremism. The campaign targeted all of Xinjiang, even Hotan on the edge of the Taklamakan desert - a two-hour flight south of Urumqi. 

Hotan is predominantly Uighur and has a strong Muslim tradition. 
Most of the women wear head scarves and long dresses, often decorated with sequins. The city is also famous for its carpets and its massive town square with a statue of late Communist leader Mao Zedong shaking hands with a Uighur worker. 

On Wednesday, the propaganda continued with local TV showing the Uighur and Han singers swaying together as they sang, We are all part of the same family. There were also several personal profiles of Uighurs who acted heroically during the riots. 

One elderly Uighur couple reportedly gave refuge to a Han teenager, allowing him to spend the night in their apartment until his father could pick him up in the morning. Another Uighur man was an ambulance driver who continued to rescue the wounded, even though he was injured and the windows of his vehicle were smashed. Im a Communist Party member, the man said. I should be doing more than the average citizen. One news report showed farmers, some still gripping their shovels, huddled in a field as a communist cadre wearing a skullcap, or doppi, led a study session about the importance of ethnic harmony. 



Our lives are getting better and better each year, said one of the farmers, whose voice was dubbed into Mandarin Chinese because he spoke the Turkic language of the Uighurs. We wont let the three evils ruin everything. But on the streets of Hotan, it was difficult to find people who would say the same things. Most Uighurs declined to discuss the issue because they feared they might be overheard by informants or plainclothes police who were following an Associated Press reporter. 



One vendor, who identified himself as Habib, said he disliked the Han Chinese. Was the July 5 incident a bad thing? I dont know, he said with a grin and a laugh. 



A college student, who identified herself as Gulinisa, said she was tuning out the propaganda. I just cant stand to watch the TV anymore, she said. It makes me so mad. Many Uighurs believe the real underlying grievances - discrimination and restrictions on their religion - were being ignored and that pent-up anger will explode again. They also complain the propaganda campaign delegitimized their concerns. 
The government has long used a two-pronged approach to Xinjiang: push for rapid economic development while crushing any signs of dissent. It has been mostly successful on both fronts. The regions economy has grown by an average annual rate of 10.3 percent in the past 30 years, the government said. Large-scale uprisings have been relatively few in the past decade or so. 



Xiong Kunxin, a professor of ethnic policy at Central Nationalities University in Beijing, said he agreed with the governments view that the recent rioting was an act of terrorism, partly whipped up by outside forces. But he also believed that internal cultural, religious and political factors played a role. 

He said local officials are often insensitive to the Uighurs culture. He said he visited a village near Hotan, where the Muslim farmers were told to raise pigs during the Maoist era. The local officials were trying to follow instructions from Mao, who wanted to increase agricultural output, he said. Xiong said the government needs to undertake a comprehensive review of its policy for minorities. I am optimistic about the future for ethnic minorities in China, but we should not be blind to the severity and complexity of the long-term ethnic minority problems, he said. These are problems that affect the entire country..


----------



## gaurysh

gambit said:


> Nothing 'fake' about them. The reasons, multiple, for Iraq was to prevent Iraq from becoming a nuclear weapons state, to search for functional nuclear weapons devices if any exists, and to overthrow the Saddam Hussein regime.
> 
> Do not forget to ask the UN about that since the initials 'WMD' involves much more than functional nuclear warheads. Most people do not realize it but every UN inspection team chiefs have been non-Americans. That is by design: Butler (Aus), Ekeus (Swiss) and Blix (Swiss). If the initials 'WMD' does not include far more than just functional nuclear warheads, then what are the legal justifications for UN inspections in the first place? Why did none of these men spoke up about the flawed reasonings but instead all of them prosecuted the inspection regimes to the fullest? Butler in his book _The Greatest Threat_ recalled how Iraq security forces attempted murders on his teams as they went about their duties.
> 
> Did we claimed such links exists? No...But in being prudent after a decade of Saddam's hatred towards US and on the Sept. 11, 2001 attack, we would be foolish not to explore such a possbility. Are you telling all here that no other governments would have done the same?
> 
> This has nothing to do with WMD. Frankly, we do not really care if any Iraqi cheered US on. But you might want to read some books by journalists who left The Green Zone and interact with ordinary Iraqis. They cannot afford to be openly glad that the US overthrew Saddam Hussein lest they and their families be killed.
> 
> We are obligated to fund any war against any enemy who threatened US. We are not obligated to be charitable.
> 
> So what? When I was a field service engineer for Santa Clara Plastics many years ago, Intel Israel was one of my install clients. Intel Israel produced the Pentium processor. Care to take a guess at how much in dollars *THE WORLD* profitted from the Jews just from this product alone? Given this level of accomplishment from this advanced society, why should we not give preference to such an ally? For the Arabs, their oil came from foreign minds and they are so lazy they import foreign workers to do manual labors and to abuse.
> 
> Really? Could have fooled me.




There was one more reason and that was to acquire oil fields in Iraq


----------



## applesauce

gambit said:


> Wrong...Here is what the IAEA actually does...
> 
> Publications: IAEA Factsheets and FAQs
> 
> Under _Tools for Nuclear Inspections_ are important information regarding nuclear technologies and nuclear *WEAPONS* technologies, distinct categories, that you as a layman should know before making this kind of statement. UN nuclear inspections were to ensure that the current nuclear technologies a country possess does not cross the threshold into nuclear weapons technology capabilities. Iraq does not need to have a functional nuclear reactor in order to have a clandestine nuclear weapons program. Refined uranium can be purchased on the black market. The tools that UNMOVIC and UNSCOM used do not look for clearly obvious items like triggers or shaped charges that are used to compress fissionable materials. Those tools, like Swipe Sampling or Multi-channel analyzers, checks for evidences that certain nuclear technologies are being pushed beyond what is necessary to produce electricity. When Saddam ordered his thugs to harass inspectors, even to the point of endangering the inspectors' lives, there are no doubts as to what Saddam was hiding, which is the *CAPABILITY* to produce nuclear weapons.
> 
> It would be better for *YOU* if you had actually read the report, not merely the title, for here is what *YOUR* source read...The Bush Administration never claimed that Saddam Hussein had any direct involvement with the attack on US on Sept. 11, 2001. But it is only a prudent response that *ANY* leader in our shoes would look for such a link.
> 
> You questioned as to why there were no rejoicing among the Iraqis once Saddam Hussein was removed. There are plenty of evidences that ordinary Iraqis were glad, except that out of fear for their lives they could not express it.
> 
> Amazon.com: In the Red Zone: A Journey into the Soul of Iraq: Steven Vincent: Books
> 
> That book was one of the many journalists who dared to venture beyond the safety of the Green Zone and talked to numerous ordinary Iraqis. I can cite the author from any chapter. As far as we are concern, the silencing of ordinary Iraqis because of sectarian violence says far more about Iraqi society than it is about post invasion occupation by US. Finally, Steven Vincent was killed in Iraq while investigating Iraqi police corruption.
> 
> Are you implying that we gave arms to Israel strictly for the purpose of Palestinians oppression?
> 
> That the Arabs would not know what to do with the oil.



1. yea i do know what the IAEA does
About IAEA: IAEA Mission Statement
also on a side note iran and north korea seems fit the bill then for invadion can it happen already?
also india and pakistan is out side of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty... both have nukes
isreal is widely consider to have nukes
little is done about the first 2 and NOTHING is done about the latter 3
so for you to tell me that is the only reason they went it in is at best very difficult to believe.

2. i did read, you said quote "Did we claimed such links exists? No..." in the report the President said "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," and only later did the commssion say "What our staff statement found is there is no credible evidence that we can discover, after a long investigation, that Iraq and Saddam Hussein in any way were part of the attack on the United States."
IT is pretty clear that Bush and Donald Rumsfeld *DID* at the time claim a link between the 2, also in the second source Donald Rumsfeld says in "September 2002 that the CIA provided "*bulletproof*" evidence demonstrating "that there are, in fact, al Qaeda in Iraq." turn out not to be so bullet proof after the commission was done with it. So the *CASE* for war Originally not the research afterwords which i was talking about had Bush and his team saying YES there is a link, he didnt direct say they planned 9/11 (no proof at all) but he rhetoric was iraq=bad, Al Qaeda=attacked us, iraq in bed with Al Qaeda. so where was he heading torwards with that kind of talk .

3. not gonna read a book to post here but thanks.
but... Iraqi Citizen Poll Alarming... last para
my point was the expected welcome for US troop simply didn't appear never did i say why, whether its because of fear or they simply didn't want an invasion to occur is another matter

4.sigh... AGAIN i was making a contrast but on a side note are you gonna deny that those weapon didn't play a part in the oppression of the Palestinians? 

5. what should have them done with the oil wealth according to you then?


----------



## gambit

applesauce said:


> 1. yea i do know what the IAEA does
> About IAEA: IAEA Mission Statement
> also on a side note iran and north korea seems fit the bill then for invadion can it happen already?
> also india and pakistan is out side of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty... both have nukes
> isreal is widely consider to have nukes
> little is done about the first 2 and NOTHING is done about the latter 3
> so for you to tell me that is the only reason they went it in is at best very difficult to believe.


Whatever politically motivations that may or may not send the IAEA into Iran or NKR has nothing to do with your false perceptions of what the UN nuclear inspectors did in Iraq and what the initials 'WMD' really mean. To date, the only way to know with any certainty that an indigenous nuclear weapons program is a success is to actually detonate a nuclear explosive device, not necessarily a 'weaponized' device. That is what India and Pakistan did and they did it undercover. Iraq's nuclear weapons program, and no one can legitimately deny that Iraq had such a program, never got to the assembly stage and the UN Security Council was already alarmed and sent in inspectors. Why, if the initials 'WMD' is to mean only functional nuclear warheads? You and others conveniently forget that three separate teams were headed by non-Americans and all of them prosecuted Iraq to their best ability. Why, if the initials 'WMD' is to mean only functional nuclear warheads?

If the initials 'WMD' is to mean only functional nuclear warheads, and since an actually nuclear detonation never happened in Iraq, then the entire UN inspection regime was 'illegal' and violated Iraq's sovereignty from the beginning. Blaming US does no good. But then it really is no fun blaming the UN, correct? But then again, if the initials 'WMD' is to mean only functional nuclear warheads and since a nuclear detonation is only proof of such a program, by the time Iraq does managed to produce such a test, any inspection regime would be pointless. Saddam could just simply prevent any inspection team from entering the country. Therefore the initials 'WMD' cannot be as simplistic as you would like to believe.

So no...You do not know what the IAEA really does for a living.



applesauce said:


> 2. i did read, you said quote "Did we claimed such links exists? No..." in the report the President said "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," and only later did the commssion say "What our staff statement found is there is no credible evidence that we can discover, after a long investigation, that Iraq and Saddam Hussein in any way were part of the attack on the United States."
> IT is pretty clear that Bush and Donald Rumsfeld *DID* at the time claim a link between the 2, also in the second source Donald Rumsfeld says in "September 2002 that the CIA provided "*bulletproof*" evidence demonstrating "that there are, in fact, al Qaeda in Iraq." turn out not to be so bullet proof after the commission was done with it. So the *CASE* for war Originally not the research afterwords which i was talking about had Bush and his team saying YES there is a link, he didnt direct say they planned 9/11 (no proof at all) but he rhetoric was iraq=bad, Al Qaeda=attacked us, iraq in bed with Al Qaeda. so where was he heading torwards with that kind of talk .


The 'link' that everyone would like to condemn US is that we claimed there is a link of Iraq to the attack on US on Sept. 11, 2001. Not the Iraq and al-Qaeda link. The former 'link' we never claimed. The latter we did. And it is not unreasonable that we should place Iraq under suspicion for 9/11. Study the history of terrorism and you will see that groups like the Red Army Faction had East Germany's support. Or that the Viet Minh in North Viet Nam had communist China's support. Or that Hezbollah have Iran sponsorship. Now al-Qaeda had Afghanistan sponsorship. You continued to dodge the issue that *EVERYONE ELSE* would also have such a suspicion should their country were under attack to the scale of 9/11. This very reasonable suspicion is not another convenient rhetorical club to be held over America's head. Funny how Israel is seen as the root cause of just about every loony conspiracy in the world, from drugs to slavery, but it is inconceivable that Iraq could be linked to al-Qaeda.



applesauce said:


> 3. not gonna read a book to post here but thanks.
> but... Iraqi Citizen Poll Alarming... last para
> my point was the expected welcome for US troop simply didn't appear never did i say why, whether its because of fear or they simply didn't want an invasion to occur is another matter


Initially, there were rejoicing by Iraqis that Saddam would no longer rule over Iraq. But when the Iraqis civil society became less civil, that became fertile ground for sectarian violence. Saddam used violence of his own to keep this animosity in check. We are not the likes of the Saddam Hussein regime. We expected better from the Iraqis. We were wrong in underestimating the hatred between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. This supposedly lack of support for US in removing Saddam Hussein is just another rhetorical club you can hold over America's head. It really is meaningless as far as the larger goal is concerned, which is denying an odious regime from nuclear weapons.



applesauce said:


> 4.sigh... AGAIN i was making a contrast but on a side note are you gonna deny that those weapon didn't play a part in the oppression of the Palestinians?


What a loaded phrase '...play a part...'. What does that mean? That we instruct the Israelis to use those arms we sold them against the Palestinians? Why not expand that implication to mean that anyone who support Israel in any way, from economics to diplomatic, also 'play a part in the oppression of the Palestinians'?



applesauce said:


> 5. what should have them done with the oil wealth according to you then?


What I meant was that without foreign minds, the Arabs would not have a clue of what to do with the oil. You objected that we give disproportionate aid to Israel. I am saying that we do so is because the Jews managed to excel themselves and their country in that hostile part of the world far better than what the Arabs have done despite all the oil they own, which they could not become so wealthy had it not been for foreigners. So why should we not give disproportionate aid to such a smart bunch of people?


----------



## Mig-29

KAZAKHSTAN  The Border Service of Kazakhstans National Security Committee reported on July 13 that it had detained 12 Chinese citizens on the border who tried to illegally enter the country. Border Service officials said off the record that they were Uighurs who fled the Xinjiang-Uighur Autonomous Region because of government repression, including the threat of death penalties for those involved in unrest in Urumqi on July 5.

The National Security Committee said seven Chinese citizens were detained on July 11 at the Almalysu border station. They entered Kazakhstan on foot. Five others who rode horses over the border were detained that night at the Sarybukhter station.

This is the largest number of illegal border crossings into Kazakhstan since 1997, when there was mass unrest in the Xinjiang-Uighur region. At that time, almost all of the refugees detained by authorities were returned to China where they were later tried, sentenced to death and executed.

Officials in the Xinjiang-Uighur region said on July 10 that 184 people were killed in the riots in Urumchi. The Xinhua news agency said 137 were Chinese Hans, 46 were Uighurs, and one has not been identified. AFP reported on July 13 that Chinese soldiers shot two other Uigurs involved in protests in Urumchi. More than 1,400 people, mostly Uighurs, were arrested on suspicion of participating in or organising the protests on July 5.

Communist Party City Committee Secretary Li Chi said at a press conference on July 8 that, We will execute those who have committed especially violent crimes.

The Uighur Youth Union organised a memorial for those killed in Urumchi on July 10 in the village of Druzhba on the outskirts of Almaty, Kazakhstans biggest city. Abdulla Ushurov, chairman of the Almaty Uighur Cultural Centre, told Azattyk radio, We were not dispersed today, and I consider that support from the government.\

Uigurs flee to Kazakhstan from China - Central Asia News


----------



## Mig-29

A militant leader whose group has links to al Qaeda denounced Chinese treatment of Uyghur Muslims in western China and threatened to seek "revenge."
The leader of the Turkistan Islamic Party, in a video that appeared on Islamic Web sites, blames the Chinese for "genocide" against people in East Turkistan -- what some Uyghurs calls the region of Xinjiang province in western China where they live.
Earlier this month, Uyghurs demonstrated in Urumqi, the Xinjiang capital, to protest the killing of two Uyghur migrant workers at a toy factory in the southeast Chinese province of Guangdong in late June after a brawl between Uyghur and Han people.

The Urumqi protest turned violent, and fighting ensued in that city and elsewhere, with Uyghurs and Han attacking each other.

The remarks were delivered by Seyfullah, commander of the Turkistan Islamic Party and dated July 8. They came after the violence erupted between Uyghur Muslims and Han Chinese.

The speaker urged his people to "kill the Chinese Communists where you find them, take them and besiege them and ambush them wherever you can."

"Let them know that these Muslim people have men who will seek their revenge and they are about to do that very soon, before the horses of God will reach you, God willing, so be prepared for that moment because we are too getting prepared."

The U.S. State Department said the group has taken credit for violent incidents in the past.

Militant issues threats over Uyghur unrest - CNN.com


----------



## Corzair

AirforcePilot said:


> ^^^^ I think ALL countries should speak out and demand an end to the violence inflicted on the Uighurs by the Chinese government.



sticking to the topic

I agree with you - China needs to act responsibly in it Western province 
And Pakistan needs to stop looking for handouts from China - sorry have to say that this is no simple internal matter.

Freedom of religion and human rights are important - mis reporting the true extent of whats going on - and us relying on that is simple not good enough 
And exactly how much use is the Friend China if he beats his wife with a stick - are we as friends just gonna look the other way cos he so big and lets us hang out in his gang?
Like in real life if Pakistan's is a true friend to china and vice versa we have to have the guts to say to our friend you are doing something wrong stop it or we will take steps!
Pakistan Helped the Afgan civilians in the 1980's - this is no less as important - 
For God sake at least say something.


----------



## Corzair

Mig-29 said:


> A militant leader whose group has links to al Qaeda denounced Chinese treatment of Uyghur Muslims in western China and threatened to seek "revenge."
> The leader of the Turkistan Islamic Party, in a video that appeared on Islamic Web sites, blames the Chinese for "genocide" against people in East Turkistan -- what some Uyghurs calls the region of Xinjiang province in western China where they live.
> Earlier this month, Uyghurs demonstrated in Urumqi, the Xinjiang capital, to protest the killing of two Uyghur migrant workers at a toy factory in the southeast Chinese province of Guangdong in late June after a brawl between Uyghur and Han people.
> 
> The Urumqi protest turned violent, and fighting ensued in that city and elsewhere, with Uyghurs and Han attacking each other.
> 
> The remarks were delivered by Seyfullah, commander of the Turkistan Islamic Party and dated July 8. They came after the violence erupted between Uyghur Muslims and Han Chinese.
> 
> The speaker urged his people to "kill the Chinese Communists where you find them, take them and besiege them and ambush them wherever you can."
> 
> "Let them know that these Muslim people have men who will seek their revenge and they are about to do that very soon, before the horses of God will reach you, God willing, so be prepared for that moment because we are too getting prepared."
> 
> The U.S. State Department said the group has taken credit for violent incidents in the past.
> 
> Militant issues threats over Uyghur unrest - CNN.com



don't believe hype by extremists to always take the centre stage they demean the whole people with their empty rhetoric they are powerless and egotistical - taking credit
next the'll take credit for the eclipse!!


----------



## Rin

Muslim countries should condemn this on strongest possible terms

---------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------

China is atheist and will not understand Islam


----------



## dabong1

Rin said:


> Muslim countries should condemn this on strongest possible terms
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------
> 
> China is atheist and will not understand Islam



A friend came back from china and was amazed at the amount of new masjid in china.....








These chinese must really be anti muslim if there going about building masjids

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

*Whatever politically motivations that may or may not send the IAEA into Iran or NKR has nothing to do with your false perceptions of what the UN nuclear inspectors did in Iraq and what the initials 'WMD' really mean. To date, the only way to know with any certainty that an indigenous nuclear weapons program is a success is to actually detonate a nuclear explosive device, not necessarily a 'weaponized' device. That is what India and Pakistan did and they did it undercover. Iraq's nuclear weapons program, and no one can legitimately deny that Iraq had such a program, never got to the assembly stage and the UN Security Council was already alarmed and sent in inspectors. Why, if the initials 'WMD' is to mean only functional nuclear warheads? You and others conveniently forget that three separate teams were headed by non-Americans and all of them prosecuted Iraq to their best ability. Why, if the initials 'WMD' is to mean only functional nuclear warheads? 
appears that whatever you think i know is completely different form what i actually know, i understant that WMD's cover nuclear, biological, chemical, Radiological anything that can kill large amounts of people . however WMD do indeed mean a weaponized device hence the name WEAPons of mass destruction, anything not weaponizd is a concern, and can but steps lead toward but not a weapon. *

and please tell me what my percetions are about IAEA in Iraq since you apparently know me better than i do. my original post stated that yea Iraq had a nuclear plant and yes the IAEA was there for inspection to ensure that WMD ie the nuclear type will not result from the plant said to be used for power generation(politcal reason and such i did not dicuss). and i made no mentioned of what they thought of the place just that there were no proof of weaponization going on and the the french who provided the plant and had engineers at the site guaranteed that the plant cannot produce nuclear fuel needed for making a bomb(this was in late 70's-early 80's) after the plant was bombed it was never rebuilt and was dicovered during the occupation that it was indeed non-operational. my point was there was no substance to the presidents claims at the time just prior to invasion. and for some reason you went on about what the iaea does, and what wmds means, we werent discussing about those things

*If the initials 'WMD' is to mean only functional nuclear warheads, and since an actually nuclear detonation never happened in Iraq, then the entire UN inspection regime was 'illegal' and violated Iraq's sovereignty from the beginning. Blaming US does no good. But then it really is no fun blaming the UN, correct? But then again, if the initials 'WMD' is to mean only functional nuclear warheads and since a nuclear detonation is only proof of such a program, by the time Iraq does managed to produce such a test, any inspection regime would be pointless. Saddam could just simply prevent any inspection team from entering the country. Therefore the initials 'WMD' cannot be as simplistic as you would like to believe.

So no...You do not know what the IAEA really does for a living.*

again i never said anything about iaea approving or dissaproving the invasion however what i did say was that the invasion was never a UN approved one and try actually reading my posts where did i claim that WMD's ONLY mean live nuclear warheads? but since you dont seem to be doing that carefully ill just tell you here I NEVER cLAIM THAT WMD's ARE ONLY FUCTIONAL NUCLEAR WARHEADS, however bush claim specifically about nukes which was what i was talking about, many can consider the gas weapons Iraq had to be a minor WMD but that was not that issue raised by the president. also dont tell me what i know and don't know, also about the IAEA, was i wrong to say that north korea is being watched by the IAEA? i do indeed understand what the IAEA does, thank you. their works consist of safeguarding and verification, safety and security, science and technology, meaning that it is it's job to promote safely using nuclear technology, verify materials and such so that they do not end up in the wrong hands, and promoting the advancement of peaceful application of nuclear energy. they are after all the INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY. inspections are merely part of the job that is require for the safeguarding, verification and security part. and was i wrong to say that the US and NATO has done little to verify that isreal has no nuclear warhead though many experts say they do? was i wrong to say that north korea which had detonated nuclear weapon twice did not see invasion as a consequence even though Iraq which if it had a weapons program was much farther away from obtain any types of nuclear warheads and was invaded? 
*
The 'link' that everyone would like to condemn US is that we claimed there is a link of Iraq to the attack on US on Sept. 11, 2001. Not the Iraq and al-Qaeda link. The former 'link' we never claimed. The latter we did. And it is not unreasonable that we should place Iraq under suspicion for 9/11. Study the history of terrorism and you will see that groups like the Red Army Faction had East Germany's support. Or that the Viet Minh in North Viet Nam had communist China's support. Or that Hezbollah have Iran sponsorship. Now al-Qaeda had Afghanistan sponsorship. You continued to dodge the issue that EVERYONE ELSE would also have such a suspicion should their country were under attack to the scale of 9/11. This very reasonable suspicion is not another convenient rhetorical club to be held over America's head. Funny how Israel is seen as the root cause of just about every loony conspiracy in the world, from drugs to slavery, but it is inconceivable that Iraq could be linked to al-Qaeda.*

i made no mention of iraq 9/11 links, but as you have said it was a suspicion which i agree was warranted in this case. but since when does suspicion instantly mean invasion there was no proof and there still isnt that the former government of iraq supported or cooperated in anyway with the terrorist for the 9/11 attack. if all nation attack on suspicion alone then no place on earth would be peaceful . and personally i do not believe very much in conspiracies. suspicions are not wrong to make but that the reason for war, without proof is

*Initially, there were rejoicing by Iraqis that Saddam would no longer rule over Iraq. But when the Iraqis civil society became less civil, that became fertile ground for sectarian violence. Saddam used violence of his own to keep this animosity in check. We are not the likes of the Saddam Hussein regime. We expected better from the Iraqis. We were wrong in underestimating the hatred between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. This supposedly lack of support for US in removing Saddam Hussein is just another rhetorical club you can hold over America's head. It really is meaningless as far as the larger goal is concerned, which is denying an odious regime from nuclear weapons.*

you dont seem to be understanding what im saying i was saying the initial planning was pretty bad in fact if you read my post i said quote "never said it did just mentioning the terrible preplanned and the fiasco that came out of it" but since YOU kept going on about it i simply answered you

*What a loaded phrase '...play a part...'. What does that mean? That we instruct the Israelis to use those arms we sold them against the Palestinians? Why not expand that implication to mean that anyone who support Israel in any way, from economics to diplomatic, also 'play a part in the oppression of the Palestinians'?*

you said "Are you implying that we gave arms to Israel strictly for the purpose of Palestinians oppression?" what you got out of my data for us aids im not sure but i had clearly said and i quote "i was repling the mention and the US give aid to the Muslim world i was making the contrast that it is also arming those who the majority of the Muslim world considers an enemy" now then are you gonna claim that isreal is friendly with many Muslim nations? they are clearly not but the post before mine stated that the us give lots to the muslim worlds and i replied that it is not much compared to others LIKE Israel even though i made this clear you then asked me if i implied they are solely for the persecution of Palestinians, a claim i never once made. so i asked if the persecution was indeed there then is the aggressor 's largest aid provider, arms provider, tech provider not at all responsible for the persecution (and i place emphasis on the aid and arms part)? and to make this point clear in the US accessory to murder is still a crime

*What I meant was that without foreign minds, the Arabs would not have a clue of what to do with the oil. You objected that we give disproportionate aid to Israel. I am saying that we do so is because the Jews managed to excel themselves and their country in that hostile part of the world far better than what the Arabs have done despite all the oil they own, which they could not become so wealthy had it not been for foreigners. So why should we not give disproportionate aid to such a smart bunch of people?*

i never objected in my posts and i had already said this, it was a contrast but of course you dont read my posts through. but now that you brought this up i do indeed object to sending so much of our tax money to Israel, it is disproportionally large for a single country. as you had said the Israelis had done well, made money from tech and other industries, what i say is that i have absolutely no problems with our trade with them what i do have a problem with is the amount of aid ie: free money(even if stings are attached) that we give them but if as you claim they are great and smart and successful then why do they require aid at all if by ur logic the most innovative and rich country should recieve the largest amount of aid then the USA should lead the world in receiving, but by my logic rich and innovative country would infact created the largest trade networks and make the money on their own(ie: not free money) and infact give out aid to those who Need it (food water, shelter). and before you said it, yes i know they are an ally, governments decision not mine, however it is still large even by standards of alliance aid. also i am not gonna argue with you about the arabs, not what we're talking about here


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## Mig-29

Exiled Uighur leader visits Japan, angering Beijing

The exiled leader of China's Uighur minority arrived in Japan for a visit that has angered Beijing, which accuses her of masterminding recent ethnic violence in the country's remote northwest.

Rebiya Kadeer, 62, the US-based head of the World Uighur Congress, was expected to use her visit to call for support for the mainly Muslim minority, following deadly clashes this month in the Xinjiang region.

The mother of 11 and grandmother, wearing a traditional Uighur hat, was greeted at Tokyo's Narita airport by a handful of her Japanese supporters waving flags and a sign that read "Free the Uighurs."

China's foreign ministry yesterday expressed "strong dissatisfaction" about Japan's decision to allow entry to Kadeer, who spent around six years in a Chinese prison before being released under US pressure in 2005.

"Ignoring China's repeated and solemn representations, the Japanese Government persisted in allowing Rebiya (Kadeer) to engage in anti-China separatist activities," foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang said. 

Exiled Uighur leader visits Japan, angering Beijing


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## Vassnti

> Uighurs in Kashgar see their culture and heritage as under attack by the Chinese government. In the latest move, authorities have started to demolish Kashgar's old town  an atmospheric, mud-brick maze of courtyard homes, winding cobblestone streets plied by donkey carts, and dozens of centuries-old mosques.



Tearing Down Old Kashgar: A Blow to the Uighurs - TIME





> A friend came back from china and was amazed at the amount of new masjid in china.....



Perhaps rather than just a few pictures you could say where the pictures were taken and when the Masjid were built i find it a little hard to belive a goverment that arrests people for praying spends a fortune building mosques in one place while it buldozes dozens else where.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

Vassnti said:


> Tearing Down Old Kashgar: A Blow to the Uighurs - TIME
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps rather than just a few pictures you could say where the pictures were taken and when the Masjid were built i find it a little hard to belive a goverment that arrests people for praying spends a fortune building mosques in one place while it buldozes dozens else where.



Perhaps you can get out of New Zealand and give it back to Asians/Maoris and stop killing them.  

Netizen blamed for Urumqi riot by spreading fake video


A netizen, who was believed to be a key member of the World Uygur Congress (WUC), was blamed by Chinese authorities for fanning ethnic confrontation that caused the deadly July 5 riot in Urumqi by spreading online a fake video about "a Uygur girl beaten to death".

The video, about a girl in red being beaten to death by a group of people using stones, was originally broadcast by the CNN in May, 2007, as something happened in the Mosul city of Iraq on April 7, 2007.

However, on July 3, 2009, the netizen, named "Mukadaisi", spread it on an Internet group of Uygurs on qq.com and said it was a Uygur girl beaten to death by the Han people.

Authorities said their investigations found that the man was a key member of the WUC in Germany and his fake video fanned ethnic confrontation and "added fuel to the fire".

In the Internet group, the man used extreme words to encourage Uygur people to "fight back with violence" and "repay blood with blood".

(Xinhua News Agency July 29, 2009)


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## Joe Shearer

gpit said:


> I bet you haven't read my previous posts, for instance this one.
> 
> Please do so and study more before blahblah.
> 
> I'm talking to you and to those who thanked you for your joke.



Dear Sir,

Thank you for your response, which I saw today, and the citation of your earlier post. It was indeed useful, and is appreciated. 

On the other hand, I hope that you do not think that the use of pejoratives and trash talk, such as 'blahblah', and calling my post 'your joke', in any way strengthens your logic. This was unnecessary incivility and uncalled for. If you wish to clarify your position, or express your point of view, it is possible to do so without insulting words or personal attacks. 

I am taking the liberty of proceeding on the basis that you are interested in a civil discussion, without these unnecessary embellishments.

Regarding your arguments, let me explain that my position is not identical to A1Kaid, although I am indebted to him for bringing to my attention information about the early history of the Turkic peoples and their _probable_ development subsequently. 

The background is this. I have spent a significant part of the last few decades reading about the developments in those parts of Asia currently described as Iran, Afghanistan, the CIS states, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrghyzstan, eastern Turkestan, currently known as Xinjiang, and Pakistan and India. My interest was in the interlinkages of these regions with Iranian and Indian history, defined broadly; this is without prejudice to recent claims that Indus Civilisation is to be studied in detail in distinction to mainstream Indian history. I neither accept nor deny that position, since there has been insufficient analysis of what is involved. Suffice it to say that my interest in Xinjiang extends to the region only to the extent that it has a bearing on the history of the regions mentioned earlier.

In summary, my understanding is well defined by you, but indirectly, in your three caveats, marked as three 'BTW's, an unusual usage but an acceptable equivalent of bullets. It is this: that in the period approximately from 1500 BC to roughly the inception of the Christian era, the following sequence of events occurred.

Earliest records and mentions in history, or archaeological indications are that a mixed steppe people, speaking Indo-Iranian, thereafter eastern Iranian, ranged the steppes.
These mixed nomads had many names, one name being Scythian. There are equivalents in Iranian, in ancient Indian references, and undoubtedly in Chinese historical annals as well.
To the north and north-east of the Scythians, a people known as the Tocharians occupied the land space that is the western part of the region now called Xinjiang.
These people are in fact identified with the mummies that you have mentioned in your cited post. Please note that I am not suggested Turkic occupation of this region at these very early stages.
The Tocharians appear to have been tall, fair, bearded, and their mummies include blonde and red-haired physical specimens. The textile used by them is found staggeringly far away as well, in roughly contemporaneous funeral remains, to the west of the Black Sea.
This is cited by some as a strong indication that trade in these early times was far more extensive than we had imagined so far.
These Tocharians apparently spoke a language which was not Indo-Iranian leave alone east Iranian, but older in the tree of Indo-European languages. It is therefore speculated that they were the eastern-most branch of the Indo-European set of language users.
Please note that ethnicity and race are dangerous and misleading categories, and it is preferable to deal with language usage as being more accurate a category. I subscribe to this point of view, and would not like to be thought to be emphasising the apparently proto-European physique of these Tocharians.
You are aware that the aftermath of Alexander's expedition to the eastern parts of the Achaemenid Empire, until his death in Babylon, was around 340 BC.
He was succeeded by a short period of rule in the region corresponding to Afghanistan and Ferghana (Tajikistan) by his successors and thereafter by Greek kingdoms. You may be wondering what this has to do with Xinjiang. Please bear with me. There is a connection.
The Indo-Greek, or, if you prefer, the Bactrian Greek kingdoms were replaced by the domination of Scythian and Parthian tribes which swept into the region around 250 BC and subsequently.
What is of interest to us in this discussion is that they were apparently driven out of their steppeland homes by the incursion of the Yueh Chi, or Moon Sect, one of the five ruling sects of the Tocharian.
At this stage, when we look for an explanation into Chinese historican records, which are the only ones of any worth at that point of time, regardless of their scant coverage of western regions to the west of the areas under actual royal or imperial rule.
It appears that the Xiong Nu (I am using this spelling consistently to be clear, but have no objection to any other that might be proposed, such as Hsiung Nu), after a period of hostility with contemporary Chinese states, had suffered a succession of defeats, split into two, the Southern branch becoming a direct appendage of the Chinese state or states, the northern one striving to preserve its integrity and independence.
It appears that the northern branch pushed westward to avoid the overlordship of Chinese states, and clashed with the Tocharians. The Tocharians were defeated in a series of encounters, their king killed, and they were in turn driven west. They too split into two or more groups, one turning south and staying on the fringes of their former dominions, the other pushing west and putting pressure on the original steppe dwellers.
These were the Yueh Chi, and they pushed the Scythians and their east Iranian allies south and then south east. These Scythian incursions finished off the Bactrian Greek kingdoms in a short while.
The period from 260 or 250 BC to the beginning of the Christian millennium is marked by repeated waves of invasion of these formerly nomadic tribes from the steppes, first under the direct pressure of the Yueh Chi, themselves under successive waves of pressure from the Xiong Nu being compelled to move further and further away from their former homeland.
Please note that this coincides exactly with the facts cited by you in your three BTW bullets.
It appears to me, and this is a personal evaluation from putting together my account, which is limited to information regarding the expulsion of the Tocharian/Yueh Chi within these 200 or so years, with accounts of the rise of the Turkic people, already presented in detail, that till around 300 AD, the areas which are today western Xinjiang were occupied by the Xiong Nu. They are, as described by you, if I remember your cited post correctly, a mixed group with predominantly Mongolian ethnicity, but with elements of several other nomadic people from the north.
Finally, it would appear that these occupants were gradually forced out or forced to submit to the emerging Turkic tribes entering from the north, and bearing south-east in their direction of incursion.
My understanding is that major Han control of these regions commenced in the Ming dynasty.

My knowledge of the facts and information covered in the last three bullets above is secondary and derivative. However, I have with me accounts of the first Chinese expeditions to the west, and the conclusions of the leader, which was roughly contemporaneous with the events that I have described.

If you want, this same account can be referenced and wherever possible the Chinese resources dealing with them introduced and presented in an academically sounder manner than the bullet points I have used to summarise. However, as I have been asked to attend to some urgent tasks and have to travel out of location for the purpose, if you sincerely want this, please allow me till mid-September (it looks as if most of August will be taken up with fire-fighting!). 

On the other hand, if you prefer to reject this with a slighting word or two, and insist that we adhere rigidly to your views, that is fine. I am available for a civil discourse, if you have the inclination for it.

Regards,

'Joe S.'

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## harun786

dabong1 said:


> A friend came back from china and was amazed at the amount of new masjid in china.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These chinese must really be anti muslim if there going about building masjids



My friend by building Mosque/Masjids does not indicate that China is for muslims people ,Please go to US ,UK and India and you will find way more Mosque/Masjids there then in China? Come on man China is killing Muslims and whole world knows about it . 

I would just say that we Pakistanis need to think hard as we depend greatly on China for our defence need.

H

H


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## quriosity

harun786 said:


> My friend by building Mosque/Masjids does not indicate that China is for muslims people ,Please go to US ,UK and India and you will find way more Mosque/Masjids there then in China? Come on man China is killing Muslims and whole world knows about it .
> 
> I would just say that we Pakistanis need to think hard as we depend greatly on China for our defence need.
> 
> H
> 
> H



hmmm.... any jehad against China? it is time China can review its foreign policy?


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## quriosity




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## quriosity

Joe Shearer,

what do you want to say? are you really an Indian? do you know our history? are not there so many races in India? are not there so many diversified regions in India with different historical backgrounds? is not South Indian part Indian? is not north Indian part Indian? Is not north east Indian part Indian? 

i understand why are you lecturing at length. but you dont represent us. you should know that.


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## Mig-29

Uighur leader says 10,000 'disappeared' in China unrest.


TOKYO: Exiled Uighur leader Rebiya Kadeer said Wednesday that nearly 10,000 people &#8216;disappeared in one night&#8217; during ethnic unrest in the Chinese city of Urumqi early this month.

&#8216;Close to 10,000 people in Urumqi disappeared in one night. Where did those people go?&#8217; she said in Japan, speaking in her native language through a translator. &#8216;If they died, where did they go?&#8217;

Kadeer, 62, the US-based head of the World Uighur Congress, charged that &#8216;the Chinese government is trying to destroy the Uighur people. I want to tell the international community about our situation.&#8217;

Beijing accuses the mother-of-11 of being a &#8216;criminal&#8217; who instigated the unrest pitting Uighurs against Han Chinese in China&#8217;s Xinjiang region, which the government says left 197 people dead.

Kadeer charged that &#8216;the responsibility lies with the authorities who changed what was a peaceful demonstration into a violent riot.&#8217;

&#8216;For Uighurs, taking part in demonstrations is like committing suicide,&#8217; she added, speaking at a Tokyo press conference.

She was also &#8216;perplexed and disappointed&#8217; by the US response to ethnic unrest in China this month, describing it as &#8216;somewhat cold.&#8217;

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...0&#37;2C000-disappeared-in-china-unrest-zj-07


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## SinoIndusFriendship

Mig-29 said:


> Uighur leader says 10,000 'disappeared' in China unrest.
> 
> 
> TOKYO: Exiled Uighur leader Rebiya Kadeer said Wednesday that nearly 10,000 people disappeared in one night during ethnic unrest in the Chinese city of Urumqi early this month.
> 
> Close to 10,000 people in Urumqi disappeared in one night. Where did those people go? she said in Japan, speaking in her native language through a translator. If they died, where did they go?
> 
> Kadeer, 62, the US-based head of the World Uighur Congress, charged that the Chinese government is trying to destroy the Uighur people. I want to tell the international community about our situation.
> 
> Beijing accuses the mother-of-11 of being a criminal who instigated the unrest pitting Uighurs against Han Chinese in Chinas Xinjiang region, which the government says left 197 people dead.
> 
> Kadeer charged that the responsibility lies with the authorities who changed what was a peaceful demonstration into a violent riot.
> 
> For Uighurs, taking part in demonstrations is like committing suicide, she added, speaking at a Tokyo press conference.
> 
> She was also perplexed and disappointed by the US response to ethnic unrest in China this month, describing it as somewhat cold.
> 
> DAWN.COM | World | Uighur leader says 10,000 'disappeared' in China unrest



This same lying ****** who OPENLY LIED ABOUT 800 Uyighers were murdered in Guangdong..... This terrorist ****** who IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THIS DEATH, HATRED, DESTRUCTION is again caught lying. 

There was over a thousand who were ARRESTED and UNDERGOING INTERROGATION to see their involvement. 

Japan made a BIG MISTAKE (AGAIN) by stirring up trouble by 'allowing' her to spread more of her lies. REBIYA KADEER's LIES HAVE BEEN RECORDED ON FILM --- AFTER --- THE FACT, SO THERE IS NO EXCUSE "she didn't know" that she was lying. I hope the Japanese don't fall for her lies. But with 'hononary whites' you never know.....


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## SinoIndusFriendship

harun786 said:


> My friend by building Mosque/Masjids does not indicate that China is for muslims people ,Please go to US ,UK and India and you will find way more Mosque/Masjids there then in China? Come on man China is killing Muslims and whole world knows about it .
> 
> I would just say that we Pakistanis need to think hard as we depend greatly on China for our defence need.
> 
> H
> 
> H



That is the most ignorant comment coming from a Pakistani. Do you know muslims murder thousands of people in Asia - yet Chinese people (MILLIONS OF WHOM ARE ALSO MUSLIM) still forgive them??? 

Have you every lived in China? Do you speak the language? Are you talking out of your arse?

I bet the answer is: NO, NO, YES.


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## harun786

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> That is the most ignorant comment coming from a Pakistani. Do you know muslims murder thousands of people in Asia - yet Chinese people (MILLIONS OF WHOM ARE ALSO MUSLIM) still forgive them???
> 
> Have you every lived in China? Do you speak the language? Are you talking out of your arse?
> 
> I bet the answer is: NO, NO, YES.



I have definitely not lived in China
I definitely don't speak the language 
but according to you if i am talking out of my arse then you can only understand that language hence you silly reply .Mind your language

My comment was a general observation and what i had pointed out is one cannot measure building of Masjids and Mosques as an indicator for any country to be pro muslims.

We can see that alot of muslims are getting killed in China. It may be a conspiracy of the west to slow China's economy down but in the end it is our muslim people who are getting killed. It is not different then Muslim getting killed in US, UK, India. 

H


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## SinoIndusFriendship

harun786 said:


> I have definitely not lived in China
> I definitely don't speak the language
> but according to you if i am talking out of my arse then you can only understand that language hence you silly reply .Mind your language
> 
> My comment was a general observation and what i had pointed out is one cannot measure building of Masjids and Mosques as an indicator for any country to be pro muslims.
> 
> We can see that alot of muslims are getting killed in China. It may be a conspiracy of the west to slow China's economy down but in the end it is our muslim people who are getting killed. It is not different then Muslim getting killed in US, UK, India.
> 
> H



(1) Since when does Chinese become "your" people?

(2) Where did you get your facts that "alot of muslims are getting killed in China"?

(3) Do you know in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Pakistan, USA, etc -- Muslims tend to murder non-muslims more than non-muslims murder muslims? Have you ever hear of the massacre of Chinese (both muslim and non) by Uighyrs??? How about in Malaysia in 1989? How about in Indonesia? How about in Philippines when muslims murder innocent people? How about in Thailand when muslims murder innocent people?

The truth is I helped the muslim cause, but so many are COLOR-BLIND (or rather Islam-blind). They don't realize how hypocritical they are -- say they don't support terrorism but they commit it, say they support good acts but they commit evil acts, complain their are being oppressed when they oppress non-muslims.

Truth hurts. 

China treats minorities PREFERENTIALLY and holds back retaliation. Not just Chinese, but Philippinos, Thais, Japanese, and even Indians. Imagine if we retaliated -- think what would happen.

But I don't let that bother me because I know SOME muslims are humane. I volunteer my time at many places DEFENDING muslim rights (like wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com) and here. I'm glad some people are sensible, but I really suggest you learn Chinese and visit (and live) in China for at least a year -- go around, talk to as many people, interact with families, see for yourself!

Before I visited China, I too had false misconceptions of China (due to western media). I'll say it again: Minorities (both religious and ethnic) are given preferential treatment. Here in the west, minorities are only given lip-service.

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## Joe Shearer

vandemataram said:


> Excuse me Mr JS...I would be greatly pleased if you try and comprehend the import of my remarks...
> 
> It highlighrs just one fact that immigration and assimilation of a race or peoples do not make them outsiders...
> 
> It is not in the case of Tukic/Uighurs nor it is the case in India with the Muslims...
> 
> It goes to the extent of proving that the remark which I replied to is nt quite correct ...
> 
> Saying and proving that Immigration (Not deliberate like the Incentive induced immigration of the Hans to TAR and the East Turkesan), is a natural phenomenon and these lame excuses is as wrong as it is in the case of PRC as it is with India...
> 
> Thank you



@Vandemataram

I am sorry, I did not get this from your remarks, and may have misunderstood the intention. Presumably we are both of the belief that all Indians are worth equal attention, irrespective of their religion or ethnic origin. As long as you are not being critical of patriotic Indians who happen to be of a particular religious confession, I have no problem.

Having said which, I regret to have to point out that according to the records, and according to the best historical information available, your point with regard to Xinjiang is back to front. The Uighurs here represent the existing population, relative to the ethnic Chinese; or perhaps a better way of putting it would be to say that the Uighurs are the earlier immigrants, and the Chinese are the later.

I am inclined to agree with your basic principle and to conclude that the ethnic Chinese immigrants have a perfect right to exist in peace in Xinjiang, without being attacked by earlier migrants. This may not have been the conclusion that you expected, but you will agree that your logic drives us in that direction.

With regards,

'Joe S.'


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## dabong1

harun786 said:


> We can see that alot of muslims are getting killed in China. It may be a conspiracy of the west to slow China's economy down but in the end it is our muslim people who are getting killed. It is not different then Muslim getting killed in US, UK, India.
> 
> H



More non muslims where killed during the riots then muslims......i hope you know that simple fact.

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## luoshan

*Road to heaven? China forced girls to wed soldiers*
Michael Sheridian, THE SUNDAY TIMES 3 August 2009, 12:45am IST



> The films title, 8,000 Girls Ascend the Heavenly Mountain, suggests that Chinese audiences will see a tale of joy when it is aired on
> 
> television this autumn.
> 
> _It dramatises the lives of thousands of girls aged 13 to 19 who went to Chinas remote far west in the 1950s to follow soldiers sent to colonise the turbulent Muslim region._ In real life it was a trip to purgatory. As shooting for the film unfolds in Beijing under the watchful gaze of party censors, an astonishing story of mass deception, forced marriages and suicides has come to light.
> 
> Women have come forward to tell how they were lured to Chinas new frontier by false promises of
> training and education  only to find themselves locked in barracks and coerced into marrying soldiers.
> Chinese journalists have also discovered that Chairman Mao Tse-tung approved the dispatch of 900 prostitutes from the brothels of Shanghai to undergo thought reform. Thousands of war widows were also conscripted to go forth and multiply with new husbands from Peoples Liberation Army.
> 
> It casts new light on the leaderships determination to occupy and populate the far west, known as Xinjiang, in the early 1950s. Ethnic conflict between Chinese and the Uighur Muslim population has flared ever since. The area recently witnessed its worst riots since an insurrection in 1997. The stoical endurance of hundreds of thousands of Chinese settlers has rarely been described in such bleak terms as in the accounts of the 8,000 women from Hunan province collected by Lu Yiping, an author.
> 
> He spent five years tracing the survivors of that naive pilgrimage. There were 200,000 soldiers in Xinjiang and only a handful had wives. So from 1949 to 1954 the military authorities, hushing up their real motive, recruited 40,000 women from all over China, he said. The girls were sent to barracks scattered across the region. One group of 20 girls, who found themselves with a regiment of 1,000 men, hastily married 20 most senior officers within days of their arrival. Xiao Yequn, 15 at the time, refused to marry a 26- year-old commissar.
> 
> When I found out he was nine years older than me I was unwilling to be his wife, she recalled. He immediately took out his pistol and put a bullet in the chamber. I dared not resist and the next year we got married. Xiaos story is among several published by the state media this year as the nation prepares to celebrate 60 years since liberation on October 1, 1949.


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## applesauce

luoshan said:


> *Road to heaven? China forced girls to wed soldiers*
> Michael Sheridian, THE SUNDAY TIMES 3 August 2009, 12:45am IST



things must be improving if the states gonna release something like this


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## SinoIndusFriendship

applesauce said:


> things must be improving if the states gonna release something like this



Sounds more like gossip coming straight from RSS (i.e. Times of India). You should read some of their gossip (oops I mean "news")....  If Bharat wants to be taken seriously, first stop with the lies and gossip spreading. If someone did an archive of TOI they can read up on it. But for me I'm tired of nasty gossip -- just speak the truth god damnit!

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## Developereo

I think the *best* solution is for China and Pakistan to work together and build the Gwadar port and rail link up through Pakistan and into Xinjiang province.

That will open the western/sea trade route for China. The resulting economic boom in Xinjiang will be good for everybody.


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## MZUBAIR

Developereo said:


> I think the *best* solution is for China and Pakistan to work together and build the *Gwadar port and rail link *up through Pakistan and into Xinjiang province.
> 
> That will open the western/sea trade route for China. The resulting economic boom in Xinjiang will be good for everybody.




Any updates abt Gwadar port and rail link. I heard India has a problem in these 2 projects.


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## gpit

luoshan said:


> *Road to heaven? China forced girls to wed soldiers*
> Michael Sheridian, THE SUNDAY TIMES 3 August 2009, 12:45am IST



My understanding of this is that during 50s lots of Chinese were needed in developing Xinjiang. Most of them are male of course. Groups of girls were encouraged (or lured if you prefer derogatory words) to go there to form families so the development could be sustained. 

Forced labor education for prostitute was heard of. But to force counter-revolutionary prostitute to marry revolutionary soldiers is definitely another fabulous Western 1001 nights.  More ridiculous than to marry a chicken with a duck. 

Forced marriage is illegal from day one of establishment of PRC. But I wouldnt be surprised at all that 1) exceptional illegal instances did happen; 2) ET terrorists and Western biased propaganda would amplify these occasionally incidences to happily serve China-haters delight. 3) it is blatant lie that girls with age of 13 got legally married in a state controlled solider units, as PRC marriage law prohibits marriage below 18.

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## Developereo

MZUBAIR said:


> Any updates abt Gwadar port and rail link. I heard India has a problem in these 2 projects.



India built the competing port of Chah Bahar in Iran and finished a highway from the port up to Afghanistan. They also built a highway in Afghanistan to link up with the Iranian highway but, last I heard, the Taliban had blown up parts of the Afghan highway.


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## BanglaBhoot

The New York Times  September 4, 2009

By EDWARD WONG and XIYUN YANG

BEIJING  Thousands of Han Chinese protesters swarmed around government buildings in the capital of the restive Xinjiang region on Thursday to demand a crackdown on Uighurs after rumors spread that they were sticking hundreds of Hans with H.I.V.-tainted hypodermic needles.

The fresh conflict in the capital, Urumqi, showed the resilient hostility between the Han, Chinas dominant ethnic group, and the Uighurs, a Turkic-speaking people who mostly follow Sunni Islam. The Uighurs are the largest ethnic group in Xinjiang, and long-simmering tensions between the two groups broke out in deadly rioting in Xinjiang two months ago.

On Thursday, witnesses described chanting crowds marching with Chinese flags, as well as moments of violence. At least one Uighur was beaten by a crowd as paramilitary police officers watched, said one witness. The police erected roadblocks, and schools were shut down.

Many protesters yelled, Wang Lequan, step down! referring to the powerful regional secretary of the Communist Party who has run Xinjiang for 15 years. Mr. Wang, a member of the ruling Politburo, has been widely criticized by Uighurs and foreign scholars of Xinjiang as a hard-liner whose policies have widened the divides among Hans, Uighurs and other ethnicities. But the Han frustration with him is based on criticism that he has not been harsh enough with the Uighurs.

Officials declined to discuss the protests. An employee at a government news media center in a hotel in Urumqi said: You guys should not be so eager competing for the news. Just wait one day until the official news comes out.

The latest protests took place in the middle of a five-day trade fair in Urumqi that is aimed at attracting overseas investment to Xinjiang. One government employee said regional officials feared that the Xinjiang economy would continue to suffer in the aftermath of the July violence, which left at least 197 people dead and 1,721 wounded, and brought ethnic tensions into the spotlight. The government said most of the casualties were Han civilians.

On Wednesday, China Daily, the official English language newspaper, ran a front-page article on the trade fair with the headline Xinjiang Emerging From Riot Shadow.
Rumors of people trying to spread H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS, with needle attacks have circulated in China for years. Talk that Uighurs were on a needle-sticking spree built rapidly in Urumqi. A small protest on Wednesday led to the much larger one on Thursday.

Media accounts might have helped fan the anxiety. On Thursday, state-run Xinjiang Television said that 476 people, most of them Hans, had sought treatment since Aug. 20 for needle stab wounds, though only 89 had obvious signs they had been pricked.
Also, the Web site of China Daily published an article from Xinhua, the state news agency, that said police officers had detained 15 people in Xinjiang for needle attacks, though it did not say when. Four had been prosecuted, the account said. 

The account quoted Yu Yunlin, a health official, as saying no one had been infected or poisoned so far. 

After the large protests, government censors rushed to delete the news accounts on the Internet. By late afternoon, the Xinhua article published by China Daily was still on the newspapers Web site, but a news release on the same subject, posted on the Web site of the information office of the State Council, Chinas cabinet, had been deleted. 
By then, the rumors of stabbings had already struck fear into Han civilians across Urumqi. 

Its the Uighurs! said a retired woman living in an apartment near Peoples Square in Urumqi, where protesters had gathered, when reached by telephone. They hate the Han! Hundreds have been stabbed. Old people, young children, pregnant women. 
The woman said she had bought a weeks worth of food because she feared she might be stuck with a needle if she went outside. People were taking taxis because they feared being stabbed on buses, she said. 

The government hasnt done anything, she said. They havent told us anything. They havent kept order. Were all so angry. The July 5 incident was so brutal that we still havent recovered from that yet. And now this? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/world/asia/04china.html?ref=global-home&pagewanted=print


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## SinoIndusFriendship

This is a underhanded, cowardly terror attack by losers - nothing more. No need to panic as doing so doesn't help. Always remain calm, alert and mentally/physically strong.

Just like the BBC (Bastard British Company) does by giving "air/online" time to Balochistan 'issues' to INFLAME the situation, the Jew York Times does the same. Know their desperate tactics, respond appropriately.


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## muse

Why these multiple threads on terrorist activity in Xinzhang?


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## BanglaBhoot

China police break up angry crowds near party HQ

By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN (AP) 

URUMQI, China  Police used tear gas and public appeals Friday to break up crowds marching on government and Communist Party offices in western China to protest a lack of public security after a bizarre series of syringe stabbings that appeared ethnically motivated.

Thousands of people, mostly from the Han Chinese majority, took to the streets of the city of Urumqi for a second day to demand increased security in the Xinjiang regional capital, still jittery after riots two months ago left nearly 200 people dead.

The protesters want punishment for those behind the July riots between Han Chinese and Muslim Uighurs, and for the culprits in the stabbings with syringes or needles in the past two weeks that state media has said targeted predominantly Han Chinese victims.

Hundreds of young Han Chinese men protested outside the headquarters of Xinjiang party secretary Wang Lequan  an ally of President Hu Jintao_ chanting for him to step down.

Armed police in riot gear marched into the crowd to push people back. After several surges, the police broke up the demonstrators, some of whom were singing the national anthem.

The smell of tear gas drifted over parts of the city. The official Xinhua News Agency also said tear gas had been used.

The security forces did not appear to be using excess force, but armed police seized video and cameras from cameramen and photographers from The Associated Press covering the protest.

The protests have thrown the city of 2.5 million into confusion, with vehicles banned from streets and almost all shops and schools closed. Wang spoke to protesters Thursday to call for restraint.

Hong Kong Cable TV reported that paramilitary police had fired tear gas to disperse a crowd of about 1,000 near the city government offices Friday morning.

One Han man, who brought his 9-year-old daughter because her school was closed, was seen arguing with paramilitary police.

"It's been two months already. How many more months are we going to wait, how long before us Han can feel safe?" said the man, who would give only his surname, Ma.

A truck with loudspeakers circled behind him, with a recorded voice saying repeatedly: "Disperse. Don't stay here. Think of the nation."

Hong Kong Cable and and another broadcaster, RTHK, both reported that two cameramen and a reporter from Hong Kong were detained while covering a protest. Hong Kong Cable said the three were forced to kneel, with their hands being tied, before they were taken away. There was no immediate independent confirmation of the reports.

RTHK also said about 5,000 Han Chinese carrying national flags protested peacefully on Renmin Road, demanding that Wang step down. The report said paramilitary police fired several tear gas rounds to disperse them.

One middle-aged Han Chinese man said police should leave the protesters alone.

"They should be catching the terrorists, not harassing the people," said Ji Xiaolong. "I have to wonder if Hu Jintao really knows what is going on here."

All access to Uighur areas of the city had been cut off, with security forces forming barriers at street entrances.

Calls to the press office of the Xinjiang government were not answered Friday. Chen Li, a staffer at the media center at the Haide Hotel in Urumqi, said there had not been any gatherings or clashes near the Xinjiang government or Xinjiang Communist Party offices.

The demonstrations are likely to further unnerve the Chinese leadership  already grappling with tens of thousands of increasingly large and violent protests every year  as it prepares for a nationwide celebration of 60 years of communist rule on Oct. 1.

The unrest shows how unsettled Urumqi remains despite continued high security since 197 people were killed in July in the worst communal violence to hit Xinjiang province in more than a decade. That rioting began when a protest by Muslim Uighurs spiraled out of control, and Uighurs attacked Han. Days later, Han vigilantes tore through Uighur neighborhoods to retaliate.

State media said most of the victims of the syringe stabbings were Han Chinese.

A total of 476 people have sought treatment for stabbings, with 433 of them Han, a TV report said. The rest are from eight other ethnic groups.

Only 89 had obvious signs of being pricked, and no deaths, infections or poisonings have occurred, the TV report said. Xinhua said 21 people had been detained.

None of the reports gave a motive.

Fears of AIDS could be adding to the concern. Xinjiang has the highest rate of infections in China, with about 25,000 cases of HIV reported last year  fueled by needle-sharing among drug users.

Any trouble in Xinjiang is magnified by ethnic tensions. The Uighurs see Xinjiang as their homeland and resent the millions of Han Chinese who have poured into the region in recent decades, saying they have unfairly benefited from the strategically vital Central Asian region with significant oil and gas deposits.

Meanwhile, the Han often stereotype Uighurs as lazy, more concerned with religion than business, and unfairly favored by quotas for government jobs and university places.

The Associated Press: China police break up angry crowds near party HQ


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## Gabbar

'Five die' in China ethnic unrest​



Five people have been killed in ethnic unrest in China's western city of Urumqi this week, officials say.

It was unclear how the deaths happened, but thousands of Han Chinese have been protesting over an unexplained spate of stabbings with syringes. 

Many of the protesters blame ethnic Uighur Muslims for the stabbings. 

Riot police used tear gas to disperse angry crowds earlier, and China's top security official has arrived in Urumqi to try to restore order. 

In July about 200 people - mostly Han Chinese - were killed in ethnic riots in Urumqi. 

Chinese authorities blame Uighur separatists for July's violence, saying it was orchestrated by Uighur separatists in exile. 

Xinjiang's population is split between mainly-Muslim Uighurs and Han Chinese - the country's majority ethnic group. 

'Undermining unity'

Zhang Hong, vice-mayor of Urumqi, confirmed to reporters that there had been casualties in the latest unrest. 

"On Thursday, 14 people were injured and sent to hospital and five people were killed in the incidents including two innocent people," the AFP news agency reported him as saying. 



Mr Zhang gave no further explanation of how the people were killed. 

Meanwhile, Beijing has sent its top security official, Meng Jianzhu, to Urumqi. 

On his arrival he was quoted by state-run news agency Xinhua as saying the spate of syringe attacks was a continuation of the July unrest. 

He said the attacks were instigated by ethnic separatist forces seeking to undermine ethnic unity and urged local officials "to restore social order as soon as possible". 

But analysts say Mr Meng's visit reflects Beijing's desire to take control of the situation - and suggests the central government no longer trusts local officials.


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## Brahm0s

Friends Very sad news indeed. Cant believe its happening in communist china where army has the power. Am glad china aint democrasy or you all know what would have china been. Is there any country who want to help china's muslim community? Or they would just watch? i think pakistan should do something. Can pak really can do something? Well i doubt.


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## grey boy 2

Brahm0s said:


> Friends Very sad news indeed. Cant believe its happening in communist china where army has the power. Am glad china aint democrasy or you all know what would have china been. Is there any country who want to help china's muslim community? Or they would just watch? i think pakistan should do something. Can pak really can do something? Well i doubt.



Thankyou for your concern!

Yes, I agree with you China is lucky to be a communist country.

Wonder what China will be today with an India style CASTE

DEMOCRACY.

By the way, what caste are you? You know i really don't like to take

a risk in case you are an untouc.....


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## lamayuru

Description:
Ever since the violence between Muslim Uighurs and Han Chinese, a fear of fanaticism has taken hold. Is the government's decision to demolish the Uighur area Kashgar really due to an earthquake threat?
Kashgar is a cultural icon. Parts of the city have stood for 2000 years and within its labyrinth, Uighur traditions are unchanged. 'We live as we did in the old times' says Tursun, a 6 generation pot thrower. But times are changing. Beijing's deputy mayor has announced that destruction of the old town is the only way to prepare for an earthquake threat. 'I spent my whole childhood in this place. If they destroy it, we can't continue our business' cries one of Kashgar's many blacksmiths. Many Uighur's are convinced that the authorities 'never tell the truth'. Yet some are happy to be rehoused in government buildings, admitting that their homes are dangerous. Kashgar is of great strategic value for China - if small separatist groups here link with Taliban insurgents across the border, there could be a full-scale armed conflict in Western China. 'If a handful of religious extremists, or international terrorists appear, we will crack down on them immediately' says Beijing's deputy mayor. His plan could rebuild a sour relationship. Or give the Uighurs a new reason to throw off Chinese occupation of their homeland.

Credits:
Produced by ABC Australia, distributed by Journeyman Pictures


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## Gabbar

*There is already a thread about this.*

*http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/29712-current-tensions-xinjiang-china-48.html*


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## oct605032048

SYRINGE ATTACKS

Syringe attacks carried out since Aug 20 have resulted in panic and resentment from the public, the official said.

By Thursday, local hospitals had dealt with 531 victims of hypodermic syringe stabbings, 106 of whom showed obvious signs of needle attacks.

Suspects were caught Wednesday when attacking members of the public. They were beaten by a angry crowd and one was seriously injured.

Five people have been confirmed dead and 14 others injured and hospitalized following Thursday's protests, Zhang said.

Of the five dead, two had been confirmed as innocent civilians, while police are trying to identify the remaining three.

Investigation had showed those involved in the syringe attacks were from the Uygur ethnic group while those attacked included people from Han and other ethnic groups.

Xinjiang police has captured 25 syringe attackers, of whom seven are in police custody, four were arrested and four others were referred for criminal prosecution, the Xinjiang regional government sources said Friday.

"The 'three forces' (separatism, terrorism and extremism) at home and abroad are not willing to see ethnic unity and their failure when the July 5 violence died down quickly," he said. "So they are using 'soft violence' to disrupt social order and instigate ethnic hatred."

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