# tipu sultan ancestors were pakistani



## cringe master

Tipu Sultan was Ideological , spiritual and genetically Pakistani
tipu sultan ancestors were punjabi from sipra clan
Fateh Muhammad, who was originally from Punjab chiniot, moved to Sira (in the present Tumakuru district) along with his father Muhammad Ali and uncle Muhammad Wali at a young age.

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## El Sidd

Tipu Sultan was a Pakistani. Ideological and spiritual Pakistani

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## Joe Shearer

Retired Troll said:


> Tipu Sultan was a Pakistani. Ideological and spiritual Pakistani



Do take the trouble to issue visas to his descendants and take them into your fold. Some of them may not be willing to shift, but just ignore the black sheep and do your best for the rest. Such Christian charity will surely be rewarded in the next world.

You will do even better to pass legislation to that effect, that all ideological and spiritual Pakistanis are to be automatically granted Pakistani citizenship. In case your legislative skills fail you, you might consider asking the BJP legal eagles to assist you; they are quite adept at drafting parochial and preferential legislation, and will surely be glad to support your noble crusade.

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## cringe master

Joe Shearer said:


> Do take the trouble to issue visas to his descendants and take them into your fold. Some of them may not be willing to shift, but just ignore the black sheep and do your best for the rest. Such Christian charity will surely be rewarded in the next world.
> 
> You will do even better to pass legislation to that effect, that all ideological and spiritual Pakistanis are to be automatically granted Pakistani citizenship. In case your legislative skills fail you, you might consider asking the BJP legal eagles to assist you; they are quite adept at drafting parochial and preferential legislation, and will surely be glad to support your noble crusade.


stop crying

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## Joe Shearer

Muslimrenaissance said:


> stop crying



Oh, no tears, none at all. Just admiration for the large-heartedness on display. Wonderful job done, and I hope that your further efforts at rehabilitating Tipu and his family are successful.

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## Jackdaws

Lol @ tipu being a Pakistani.

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## Species

There was no India or Pakistan prior to 1947.

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## Kamikaze Pilot

Read the title.

@Indus Pakistan


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## El Sidd

Joe Shearer said:


> Do take the trouble to issue visas to his descendants and take them into your fold. Some of them may not be willing to shift, but just ignore the black sheep and do your best for the rest. Such Christian charity will surely be rewarded in the next world.
> 
> You will do even better to pass legislation to that effect, that all ideological and spiritual Pakistanis are to be automatically granted Pakistani citizenship. In case your legislative skills fail you, you might consider asking the BJP legal eagles to assist you; they are quite adept at drafting parochial and preferential legislation, and will surely be glad to support your noble crusade.



A professionally pathetic Post. 

Sin or good deed of the father has No legal or religious binding to the kin.



Species said:


> There was no India or Pakistan prior to 1947.



But right to self determination of the Muslims existed from the day Qasim entered Sindh

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## Joe Shearer

Retired Troll said:


> A professionally pathetic Post.
> 
> Sin or good deed of the father has No legal or religious binding to the kin.




Oh dearie me, something like _Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin_ has been pronounced on me! A professional judgement at the High Court of Trolls, on the quality of my trolling.



> But right to self determination of the Muslims existed from the day Qasim entered Sindh



How and why?

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## Sinnerman108

Muslimrenaissance said:


> Tipu Sultan was Ideological , spiritual and genetically Pakistani
> tipu sultan ancestors were punjabi from sipra clan
> Fateh Muhammad, who was originally from Punjab chiniot, moved to Sira (in the present Tumakuru district) along with his father Muhammad Ali and uncle Muhammad Wali at a young age.




Lol @ Sipra clan and Sipra book company ! 

There is a limit to imagination .. this is beyond stupid !


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## El Sidd

Joe Shearer said:


> Oh dearie me, something like _Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin_ has been pronounced on me! A professional judgement at the High Court of Trolls, on the quality of my trolling.


Wear it proud


Joe Shearer said:


> How and why?



Because Muslims have a different Code of justice than indians

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## cringe master

Sinnerman108 said:


> Lol @ Sipra clan and Sipra book company !
> 
> There is a limit to imagination .. this is beyond stupid !



read some history , tipu sultan grandfather was punjabi and it's known fact

sipra is big punjabi clan 

tanveer sipra urdu poet






saleena sipra actress

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## Sinnerman108

Muslimrenaissance said:


> read some history , tipu sultan grandfather was punjabi and it's known fact
> 
> sipra is big punjabi clan
> 
> tanveer sipra urdu poet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saleena sipra actress




This maybe a bit too late, but there is such a things as the scientific method.
It has two rules. First: There are no sacred truths; all assumptions must be critically examined; arguments from authority are worthless. Second: whatever is inconsistent with the facts must be discarded or revised. We must understand the Cosmos as it is and not confuse how it is with how we wish it to be. The obvious is sometimes false; the unexpected is sometimes true.
Humans everywhere share the same goals when the context is large enough. And the study of the Cosmos provides the largest possible context.

Here is a person you should be reading about, rather than the text you are reading (Carl Sagan).

*1. *Wherever possible, *there must be independent confirmation of the "facts."*

*2. Encourage substantive debate on the evidence* by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.

*3. Arguments from authority carry little weight* — "authorities" have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts.

*4. Spin more than one hypothesis.* If there's something to be explained, think of all the different ways in which it could be explained. Then think of tests by which you might systematically disprove each of the alternatives. What survives, the hypothesis that resists disproof in this Darwinian selection among "multiple working hypotheses," has a much better chance of being the right answer than if you had simply run with the first idea that caught your fancy.



*5. Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it's yours*. It's only a way station in the pursuit of knowledge. Ask yourself why you like the idea. Compare it fairly with the alternatives. See if you can find reasons for rejecting it. If you don't, others will.

*6. Quantify.* If whatever it is you're explaining has some measure, some numerical quantity attached to it, you'll be much better able to discriminate among competing hypotheses. What is vague and qualitative is open to many explanations. Of course, there are truths to be sought in the many qualitative issues we are obliged to confront, but finding _them_ is more challenging.

*7. If there's a chain of argument, every link in the chain must work* (including the premise) — not just most of them.

*8. Occam's Razor.* This convenient rule-of-thumb urges us, when faced with two hypotheses that explain the data _equally well, _to choose the simpler.

*9. Always ask whether the hypothesis can be, at least in principle, falsified.* Propositions that are untestable and unfalsifiable are not worth much. Consider the grand idea that our universe and everything in it is just an elementary particle — an electron, say — in a much bigger cosmos. But if we can never acquire information from outside our universe, is not the idea incapable of disproof? You must be able to check assertions out. Inveterate skeptics must be given the chance to follow your reasoning, to duplicate your experiments and see if they get the same result.


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## YeBeWarned

Tipu is as much Pakistani as I am African as first Homosepian first pop up in Africa .

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## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> Do take the trouble to issue visas to his descendants and take them into your fold. Some of them may not be willing to shift, but just ignore the black sheep and do your best for the rest. Such Christian charity will surely be rewarded in the next world.
> 
> You will do even better to pass legislation to that effect, that all ideological and spiritual Pakistanis are to be automatically granted Pakistani citizenship. In case your legislative skills fail you, you might consider asking the BJP legal eagles to assist you; they are quite adept at drafting parochial and preferential legislation, and will surely be glad to support your noble crusade.



The logical next step should be to declare Muhammad Bin Qasim a Pakistani, if we accept this logic. Then his invasion of Sindh would just be another law enforcement operation. 

(Please note that Mir Sadiq would remain Indian.  )

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## Joe Shearer

VCheng said:


> The logical next step should be to declare Muhammad Bin Qasim a Pakistani, if we accept this logic. Then his invasion of Sindh would just be another law enforcement operation.
> 
> (Please note that Mir Sadiq would remain Indian.  )



LOLOL. 

You are irrepressible!

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## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> LOLOL.
> 
> You are irrepressible!



And I am made to suffer for being so, too. 

(A price worth paying, I suppose.)


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## Joe Shearer

VCheng said:


> And I am made to suffer for being so, too.
> 
> (A price worth paying, I suppose.)



I really wish you wouldn't. You are too good a man to inflict this on yourself. Leave it and exercise your brain, to put it in military terms, in more 'befitting' ways. 

Is this word 'befitting' peculiarly sub-continental? Has anyone heard it from others besides Indians and Pakistanis?

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## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> I really wish you wouldn't. You are too good a man to inflict this on yourself. Leave it and exercise your brain, to put it in military terms, in more 'befitting' ways.
> 
> Is this word 'befitting' peculiarly sub-continental? Has anyone heard it from others besides Indians and Pakistanis?



What would you suggest? Leave PDF? (since I am banished from assuming any meaningful roles as an undesirable)


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## Joe Shearer

VCheng said:


> What would you suggest? Leave PDF? (since I am banished from assuming any meaningful roles as an undesirable)



No.

Pick topics that you like, here or elsewhere, and lead the discussion. Heaven knows you don't lack the processing power. Just stop looking at anything personal and stick stubbornly to the abstruse and mystifying that needs clarifying.


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## Taimur Khurram

Muslimrenaissance said:


> Tipu Sultan was Ideological , spiritual and genetically Pakistani
> tipu sultan ancestors were punjabi from sipra clan
> Fateh Muhammad, who was originally from Punjab chiniot, moved to Sira (in the present Tumakuru district) along with his father Muhammad Ali and uncle Muhammad Wali at a young age.



Asalamu Alaikum

Already known bro. I and others have pointed this out before.

But he was not Sipran. He was a Syed.


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## SQ8

Probably also gave to the CJP dam fund

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## Taimur Khurram

Jackdaws said:


> Lol @ tipu being a Pakistani.



Pakistan may have come to existence in 1947, but Tipu Sultan's family did originally come from the Punjab, he spoke Urdu, and he was a Muslim. No reason for us to not like him.

But I don't see why (Kafir) Indians like him. He fought against the Marathas and wasn't exactly nice to you guys:

Ripaud de Montaudevert, a French soldier who fought for Tipu, in his diary entry of January 14 1799 writes: "I'm disturbed by Tipu Sultan's treatment of these most gentle souls, the Hindus. During the siege of Mangalore, Tipu's soldiers daily exposed the heads of many innocent Brahmins within sight from the fort for the Zamorin and his
Hindu followers to see."

https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/the-tyrant-diaries/284803



VCheng said:


> The logical next step should be to declare Muhammad Bin Qasim a Pakistani, if we accept this logic. Then his invasion of Sindh would just be another law enforcement operation.



It is to be expected that someone like you would oppose the actions of someone whom without, Pakistan would never exist.

Muhammad Bin Qasim is to Pakistan what Christopher Columbus is to America. Neither were from the land, but both are the reason these respective nations exist today.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Species said:


> There was no India or Pakistan prior to 1947.


When we say "Pakistani" in regards to someone from pre-1947; we mean anyone from these lands.

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## Taimur Khurram

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> When we say "Pakistani" in regards to someone from pre-1947; we mean anyone from these lands.



I'd extend it include any Muslims from British India prior to 1947 as well (so long as they were clearly not advocates of Akhand Bharat nonsense) since Pakistan was made for the Muslims of British India.


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## VCheng

Taimur Khurram said:


> Muhammad Bin Qasim is to Pakistan what Christopher Columbus is to America. Neither were from the land, but both are the reason these respective nations exist today.



Isn't that why I proposed that MBQ be declared a Pakistani? 



Joe Shearer said:


> No.
> 
> Pick topics that you like, here or elsewhere, and lead the discussion. Heaven knows you don't lack the processing power. Just stop looking at anything personal and stick stubbornly to the abstruse and mystifying that needs clarifying.



Perhaps one day when there can be fair engagement and something to justify the effort. Perhaps.

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## Nilgiri

Retired Troll said:


> Tipu Sultan was a Pakistani. Ideological and spiritual Pakistani



Maybe somewhat concerning the original Pakistan....given he was a real fan of Bengal (their economy, culture were seen as things to emulate and improve upon by Tipu for Mysore). 

But definitely not the current guise, he would hate you pretty badly for what your military ruffians did in the late 60s and early 70s. He would identify much more strongly with Bangladesh....but his final loyalty would probably be similar to that of the Owaisi clan....to that of Hindustan. 

@Atlas @Mage @Al-Ansar @bluesky 



Joe Shearer said:


> Do take the trouble to issue visas to his descendants and take them into your fold. Some of them may not be willing to shift, but just ignore the black sheep and do your best for the rest. Such Christian charity will surely be rewarded in the next world.
> 
> You will do even better to pass legislation to that effect, that all ideological and spiritual Pakistanis are to be automatically granted Pakistani citizenship. In case your legislative skills fail you, you might consider asking the BJP legal eagles to assist you; they are quite adept at drafting parochial and preferential legislation, and will surely be glad to support your noble crusade.



These people don't even know where Tipu's descendants live or why they live there. Not one would leave for Pakistan if given the choice...I am pretty sure of that (as bad as their fate has been over the years in India).

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## El Sidd

Nilgiri said:


> Maybe somewhat concerning the original Pakistan....given he was a real fan of Bengal (their economy, culture were seen as things to emulate and improve upon by Tipu for Mysore).
> 
> But definitely not the current guise, he would hate you pretty badly for what your military ruffians did in the late 60s and early 70s. He would identify much more strongly with Bangladesh....but his final loyalty would probably be similar to that of the Owaisi clan....to that of Hindustan.



We would never know now would we.

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## Nilgiri

Joe Shearer said:


> Oh dearie me, something like _Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin_ has been pronounced on me! A professional judgement at the High Court of Trolls, on the quality of my trolling.
> 
> 
> 
> How and why?


 LOL

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## @@@

If Tipu Sultan was alive today. He would have been commanding an Army to defeat India in Kashmir.


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## Nilgiri

Retired Troll said:


> We would never know now would we.



I suppose, but I know for sure saying "Pakistan" to mr Tipu back then (if I could say be Doctor Who for just a moment)....would get a confused expression or blank stare only. 

"Bengal Subah" would probably get a good conversation going. Actually I would be interested to see how much of my Tamil he can understand too.



Dewaneh said:


> If Tipu Sultan was alive today. He would have been commanding an Army to defeat India in Kashmir.



Doubt it...which side is the true manifestation of Hindustan would have been made apparent to him in war of 71.

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## @@@

Nilgiri said:


> Doubt it...which side is the true manifestation of Hindustan would have been made apparent to him in war of 71.


Tipu Sultan was simply an Islamic warrior. I am sure he would not like the sight of BJP/Hindu ruling India. Bangladesh currently is a terminal state of India, so no bueno. Albeit, the Bengali Bangalorean connection. Bangladesh and Pakistan would've not had a rough relationship if Tipu Sultan was present today. He spoke Urdu, Persian, and Bengali. Persian would've been acceptable language in both states, and BJP/Hindu India would be extremely isolated.


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## Joe Shearer

Dewaneh said:


> If Tipu Sultan was alive today. He would have been commanding an Army to defeat India in Kashmir.



Which Army??? And what would a warm-weather person like he be doing in icy cold Kashmir?


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## @@@

Joe Shearer said:


> Which Army??? And what would a *warm-weather person* like he be doing in icy cold Kashmir?


Most of Indian Army are warm-weather people, what are they doing in icy cold Kashmir? Can you tell me?


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## Joe Shearer

Dewaneh said:


> Tipu Sultan was simply an Islamic warrior. I am sure he would not like the sight of BJP/Hindu ruling India. Bangladesh currently is a terminal state of India, so no bueno. Albeit, the Bengali Bangalorean connection. Bangladesh and Pakistan would've not had a rough relationship if Tipu Sultan was present today. He spoke Urdu, Persian, and Bengali. Persian would've been acceptable language in both states, and BJP/Hindu India would be extremely isolated.



Your logic baffles me; perhaps that was your intention all along - the cuttlefish ink technique.


Tipu was an Islamic warrior. He also donated major sums to kaffir temples. His Islam had nothing to do with whatever you might be dreaming of.
He would not like the sight of BJP ruling India. As for Hindus ruling India, he had a taste of that when the Marathas took him on. I doubt that ultimately like or dislike would play much of a role, against an adversary who could take him on.
I don't know what you mean by Bangladesh being a terminal state of India. What is a terminal state? A state heading for its final end? Bangladesh is perhaps doing the best in South Asia. Is a terminal state one where all transport modes come to an end? It is true that there are numerous container handling yards, railway tracks and container yards, not to mention shipping berths, in Bangladesh.
Again, the Bengali Bangalorean connection is a reference that escapes me. I'm a Bengali from Bangalore; are you talking about me?
About Bangladesh and Pakistan not having a rough relationship if Tipu Sultan was present today. Whatever does that mean? Are you saying that he would have forced the two to like each other? Why would he do that? Are you aware that the Nizam of Hyderabad was one of his most bitter enemies?
He spoke Urdu, Persian and Bengali. So? Persian would have been acceptable in both states, meaning Bangladesh and Pakistan? Are you drunk? Do you know what Bangladeshis did for their language? Have you any knowledge of the Language Movement of the 1950s, and the Bangladesh (or East Pakistan) reaction to Jinnah's announcement that Urdu would be the national language of Pakistan? I seriously suggest that you do your homework before your next post.
BJP/Hindu India would be isolated. India is not Hindu India. Just jumping up and down and shouting that it is so, doesn't make it so. How India would be isolated is not at all clear, since Tipu himself would have been right within India. How he would isolate India while in India is again not clear.
Posts like this display a serious lack of equilibrium. This post itself, also a lack of librium.



Dewaneh said:


> Most of Indian Army are warm-weather people, what are they doing in icy cold Kashmir? Can you tell me?



Yes.

Keeping warm and drinking nun chai.

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## El Sidd

Nilgiri said:


> Actually I would be interested to see



His warfare Adaptation of drone warfare.

The man had a Talent for ingenuity and Innovation but brilliant execution in itself.

These are men of war. Not of politics whose Taste in fine wine and exotic women be arbitrated upon.

And i can assure you. If he had any superiority complex, we would let him know.


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## Taimur Khurram

Nilgiri said:


> he would hate you pretty badly for what your military ruffians did in the late 60s and early 70s.



Considering what he's done, I doubt it. 



Nilgiri said:


> but his final loyalty would probably be similar to that of the Owaisi clan....to that of Hindustan.



Unlikely considering how he would slaughter random Brahmins to flex his power.

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## @@@

Joe Shearer said:


> Your logic baffles me; perhaps that was your intention all along - the cuttlefish ink technique.
> 
> 
> Tipu was an Islamic warrior. He also donated major sums to kaffir temples. His Islam had nothing to do with whatever you might be dreaming of.
> He would not like the sight of BJP ruling India. As for Hindus ruling India, he had a taste of that when the Marathas took him on. I doubt that ultimately like or dislike would play much of a role, against an adversary who could take him on.
> I don't know what you mean by Bangladesh being a terminal state of India. What is a terminal state? A state heading for its final end? Bangladesh is perhaps doing the best in South Asia. Is a terminal state one where all transport modes come to an end? It is true that there are numerous container handling yards, railway tracks and container yards, not to mention shipping berths, in Bangladesh.
> Again, the Bengali Bangalorean connection is a reference that escapes me. I'm a Bengali from Bangalore; are you talking about me?
> About Bangladesh and Pakistan not having a rough relationship if Tipu Sultan was present today. Whatever does that mean? Are you saying that he would have forced the two to like each other? Why would he do that? Are you aware that the Nizam of Hyderabad was one of his most bitter enemies?
> He spoke Urdu, Persian and Bengali. So? Persian would have been acceptable in both states, meaning Bangladesh and Pakistan? Are you drunk? Do you know what Bangladeshis did for their language? Have you any knowledge of the Language Movement of the 1950s, and the Bangladesh (or East Pakistan) reaction to Jinnah's announcement that Urdu would be the national language of Pakistan? I seriously suggest that you do your homework before your next post.
> BJP/Hindu India would be isolated. India is not Hindu India. Just jumping up and down and shouting that it is so, doesn't make it so. How India would be isolated is not at all clear, since Tipu himself would have been right within India. How he would isolate India while in India is again not clear.
> Posts like this display a serious lack of equilibrium. This post itself, also a lack of librium.


India would be an hella awkward and unfitting state for Tipu Sultan. He would not like it one bit. It is a fact that Tipu is not very keen on Hindus and other non-Muslims. He is the one to advocate the conversion of Temples to Mosques—and he did. In Islamic tradition, the worship of idols is NOT meant to exist. Tipu Sultan was a devout Muslim who hated outsider forces (British). Maybe, he could've tolerated Hindus to some extent (you know Islamic law allows for protection to non-Muslims). Hindus would have to sign a deal to get his mercy and help.

I can't speak for Bangladeshis. Because they tend to be crazy and jump around very quickly. One day they are Bengali language fan boys. Next day they are Rohingya human rights activists. Next day they are anti-India bunch. Next day they are part of the Ummah.

I am not saying he would isolate India. India would've be hella awkward and the dark-horse state of the region. Just like Israel is to the Levant. Every neighbor hates Israel. And Tipu-Bengal-Pak-Pesian nexus would hate Hindu/BJP India too. There is no way Tipu would identify as an Indian nor would he carry an Indian passport. Since India is a Hindu/BJP inclined state. Even the Muslims of India would not support India.


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## Nilgiri

Dewaneh said:


> Tipu Sultan was simply an Islamic warrior. I am sure he would not like the sight of BJP/Hindu ruling India. Bangladesh currently is a terminal state of India, so no bueno. Albeit, the Bengali Bangalorean connection. Bangladesh and Pakistan would've not had a rough relationship if Tipu Sultan was present today. He spoke Urdu, Persian, and Bengali. Persian would've been acceptable language in both states, and BJP/Hindu India would be extremely isolated.



BJP ruling India is very recent thing compared to Kashmir conflict. I am not sure where you decided to interject Tipu Sultan into modern day India/subcontinent context and at what level of significance. I would think ideally (for the hypothesis and hypothetical) he would be there and see and judge on all of it from 1947 onwards (when his dreaded mortal enemy the British left finally)....and maybe head of a political movement or faction (certainly he would have to start from scratch) at most like the Owaisi brothers....rather than some established leader in command of armies.

He was a man that relied on context and nuance you see....you have to be so to even establish something politically in the South of all places. There was a reason lot of his Generals were Hindu and his army had lot of Hindus in it....and why his father made sure he learned lot of the Hindu languages and cultural norms as a kid. A good ruler needs all of this...to grow, sustain and make his rule prosperous.

When Pakistanis mold him into a certain impression, its much like what lot of anti-muslim forces do so in India as well....take a tiny perceived fraction of something, remove it from the context and make it the entirety...that too applied far across the relevant time and space.

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## Joe Shearer

Dewaneh said:


> India would be an hella awkward and unfitting state for Tipu Sultan. He would not like it one bit. It is a fact that Tipu is not very keen on Hindus and other non-Muslims. He is the one to advocate the conversion of Temples to Mosques—and he did. In Islamic tradition, the worship of idols is NOT meant to exist. Tipu Sultan was a devout Muslim who hated outsider forces (British). Maybe, he could've tolerated Hindus to some extent (you know Islamic law allows for protection to non-Muslims). Hindus would have to sign a deal to get his mercy and help.



I suggest you stop depending on 'he would have' and 'he would not have' and read the facts. He donated large sums to temples. That goes well beyond toleration. 



> I can't speak for Bangladeshis. Because they tend to be crazy and jump around very quickly. One day they are Bengali language fan boys. Next day they are Rohingya human rights activists. Next day they are anti-India bunch. Next day they are part of the Ummah.



Why not all four? Do you have a problem with that? 



> I am not saying he would isolate India. India would've be hella awkward and the dark-horse state of the region. Just like Israel is to the Levant. Every neighbor hates Israel.



What is not clear from this clouded dream is where Tipu is supposed to have been sitting while all this grand strategy goes on. He would not be part of India? Where would he be located? Pakistan? 

Secondly, why would suddenly everybody be opposed to India because Tipu was around? Even Bhutto didn't have that effect on South Asia. So where does this image of Tipu's extra impact come from?



> And Tipu-Bengal-Pak-Pesian nexus would hate Hindu/BJP India too.



You still don't seem to get it. Tipu, suggesting Persian as a link language, would have got nowhere with Bengal. So what does make of the rest of the vision?

Librium, without a doubt; definitely recommended.



> There is no way Tipu would identify as an Indian nor would he carry an Indian passport.



Maldivean then?



> Since India is a Hindu/BJP inclined state. Even the Muslims of India would not support India.



Like they don't today?

Please look for urgent help. For yourself, not for Tipu.

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## @@@

Nilgiri said:


> BJP ruling India is very recent thing compared to Kashmir conflict. I am not sure where you decided to interject Tipu Sultan into modern day India/subcontinent context and at what level of significance. I would think ideally (for the hypothesis and hypothetical) he would be there and see and judge on all of it from 1947 onwards (when his dreaded mortal enemy the British left finally)....and maybe head of a political movement or faction (certainly he would have to start from scratch) at most like the Owaisi brothers....rather than some established leader in command of armies.
> 
> He was a man that relied on context and nuance you see....you have to be so to even establish something politically in the South of all places. There was a reason lot of his Generals were Hindu and his army had lot of Hindus in it....and why his father made sure he learned lot of the Hindu languages and cultural norms as a kid. A good ruler needs all of this...to grow, sustain and make his rule prosperous.
> 
> When Pakistanis mold him into a certain impression, its much like what lot of anti-muslim forces do so in India as well....take a tiny perceived fraction of something, remove it from the context and make it the entirety...that too applied far across the relevant time and space.



Tipu Sultan does not care about "Kumars" and "Singhs". Every single of his elders and close-ones would disown him if he ever thought about making an alliance with the non-Muslims of India. He can only be on one side (either as a front commander of the Army or as a bystander) and that is Pakistan. 

And that is why saying Tipu Sultan is an Indian is totally out of place. He does not match up India's ideals. He is a outsider coming from Western lands (Khorasan/Sarhad) of which are Pakistan.


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## Crixus

Seems like another identity crisis stealing warriors from Afghanistan and India( after 1947) and I am still wondering do the current Pakistan has any world renowned Muslim warrior except Gen Niazi.


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## @@@

Joe Shearer said:


> I suggest you stop depending on 'he would have' and 'he would not have' and read the facts. He donated large sums to temples. That goes well beyond toleration.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not all four? Do you have a problem with that?
> 
> 
> 
> What is not clear from this clouded dream is where Tipu is supposed to have been sitting while all this grand strategy goes on. He would not be part of India? Where would he be located? Pakistan?
> 
> Secondly, why would suddenly everybody be opposed to India because Tipu was around? Even Bhutto didn't have that effect on South Asia. So where does this image of Tipu's extra impact come from?
> 
> 
> 
> You still don't seem to get it. Tipu, suggesting Persian as a link language, would have got nowhere with Bengal. So what does make of the rest of the vision?
> 
> Librium, without a doubt; definitely recommended.
> 
> 
> 
> Maldivean then?
> 
> 
> 
> Like they don't today?
> 
> Please look for urgent help. For yourself, not for Tipu.


Persian has a history in Bangladesh. Every Benagli has a soft spot for Persian. It is India who would be vilifying Tipu (because obviously he would be vehemently against them). Tipu would lead the Army against Hindu brutality in Kashmir (and India guts would be so frightened from that). It would exactly how India builds a character of "Hafeez Saeed" in their media. Tipu Sultan would be the "#1 most wanted man in India". He is a brave character and a hero of Muslims of South Asia. He would not let his brothers in Kashmir down and would march up immediately to free them.

No need to be envious that Hindus have had the weak side of history and never could fight for themselves. Tipu Sultan is a Muslim hero. All actions and political beliefs akin to Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Not to India.


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## VCheng

Crixus said:


> Seems like another identity crisis stealing warriors from Afghanistan and India( after 1947) and I am still wondering do the current Pakistan has any world renowned Muslim warrior except Gen Niazi.



I am quite sure that Tariq Bin Ziyad was a Pakistani general according to the logic being peddled in this thread. I am also sure @Joe Shearer will back me up on this fact.

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## El Sidd

Crixus said:


> Seems like another identity crisis stealing warriors from Afghanistan and India( after 1947) and I am still wondering do the current Pakistan has any world renowned Muslim warrior except Gen Niazi.



Why dont you start writing letters to them?


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## Nilgiri

Joe Shearer said:


> Maldivean then?



Ahaha ...Joe, I'm just going to sit back and watch now tbh. Stage is all yours my friend with these amusing characters...part of the humour for me is how lot of your wit goes swoosh right over them and they dont even know it haha.


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## Joe Shearer

Dewaneh said:


> Persian has a history in Bangladesh. Every Benagli has a soft spot for Persian.



So you think they would abandon Bengali for Persian?



> It is India who would be vilifying Tipu (because obviously he would be vehemently against them). Tipu would lead the Army against Hindu brutality in Kashmir (and India guts would be so frightened from that).



Er....which Army precisely?



> It would exactly how India builds a character of "Hafeez Saeed" in their media. Tipu Sultan would be the "#1 most wanted man in India". He is a brave character and a hero of Muslims of South Asia. He would not let his brothers in Kashmir down and would march up immediately to free them.



You mean just like Hafeez Saeed has done?



> No need to be envious that Hindus have had the weak side of history and never could fight for themselves. Tipu Sultan is a Muslim hero. All actions and political beliefs akin to Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Not to India.



If you wish. I wonder what religion the Marathas professed. Or the Jats of Bharatpore. Or the Sikhs.

But you've never heard of all these, have you?

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## Crixus

The only names come to mind with world renowned warrior/king from current Pakistan are King Porus , Maharajah Ranjeet Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa and they are non Muslims .... I am wondering they will claim Arabs are actually Punjabi Muslims who were Urdu speaking before they migrated to Arabia ....... Now they even claiming the words like Rajputs as Islamic ....... REAL CASE OF IDENTITY CRISIS..... @Joe Shearer if you can think of some world renowned Muslim warriors from current Pakistan then Please add


VCheng said:


> I am quite sure that Tariq Bin Waleed was a Pakistani general according to the logic being peddled in this thread. I am also sure @Joe Shearer will back me up on this fact.

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## Joe Shearer

VCheng said:


> I am quite sure that Tariq Bin Ziyad was a Pakistani general according to the logic being peddled in this thread. I am also sure @Joe Shearer will back me up on this fact.





Nilgiri said:


> Ahaha ...Joe, I'm just going to sit back and watch now tbh. Stage is all yours my friend with these amusing characters...part of the humour for me is how lot of your wit goes swoosh right over them and they dont even know it haha.



I am actually quite bewildered. Where do they dredge these tadpoles from?



Crixus said:


> The only names come to mind with world renowned warrior/king from current Pakistan are King Porus , Maharajah Ranjeet Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa and they are non Muslims .... I am wondering they will claim Arabs are actually Punjabi Muslims who were Urdu speaking before they migrated to Arabia ....... Now they even claiming the words like Rajputs as Islamic ....... REAL CASE OF IDENTITY CRISIS..... @Joe Shearer if you can think of some world renowned Muslim warriors from current Pakistan then Please add



Silly question.

Mohammed bin Qasim. Not to mention Ahmed Shah Abdali.



Nilgiri said:


> Ahaha ...Joe, I'm just going to sit back and watch now tbh. Stage is all yours my friend with these amusing characters...part of the humour for me is how lot of your wit goes swoosh right over them and they dont even know it haha.



Treacherous, back-stabbing Brahmin oppressor of us underlings. Or was it 'son'? I forget, but 'son' doesn't have the fine ring to it that 'underling' does. Let's stick to 'underling'.

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## Crixus

Now I agree Tipu Sultan was Pakistani.....


Joe Shearer said:


> Silly question.
> 
> Mohammed bin Qasim. Not to mention Ahmed Shah Abdali.

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## Joe Shearer

Crixus said:


> Now I agree Tipu Sultan was Pakistani.....



I knew you'd fall into line. After a while, it gets so tiresome just bursting into tears after hearing these, it's easier just to hammer the fetters in place oneself, and practice gyrating one's hips.

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## Nilgiri

Joe Shearer said:


> I am actually quite bewildered. Where do they dredge these tadpoles from?
> 
> 
> 
> Silly question.
> 
> Mohammed bin Qasim. Not to mention Ahmed Shah Abdali.
> 
> 
> 
> Treacherous, back-stabbing Brahmin oppressor of us underlings. Or was it 'son'? I forget, but 'son' doesn't have the fine ring to it that 'underling' does. Let's stick to 'underling'.



Well its not just us using the terminology it seems...its quite expansive haha:

https://defence.pk/pdf/search/15374992/?q=underling&o=date

I seem to be getting through to one of my padawans here pretty well though:



Mage said:


> My underling, can you please give me a link to that thread?



Kiddo has good potential, but much to learn he still has.

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## Crixus

I really enjoy these historical threads on PDF .... the limit of identity crisis is beyond limits 


Joe Shearer said:


> I knew you'd fall into line. After a while, it gets so tiresome just bursting into tears after hearing these, it's easier just to hammer the fetters in place oneself, and practice gyrating one's hips.

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## Joe Shearer

Crixus said:


> I really enjoy these historical threads on PDF .... the limit of identity crisis is beyond limits



This is NOT an historical thread. It is to history what the Light Cavalry Overture is to music.

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## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> Mohammed bin Qasim. Not to mention Ahmed Shah Abdali.



I'll give you credit for Abdali if you recognize my discovery of MBQ's true lineage. 



Crixus said:


> Now I agree Tipu Sultan was Pakistani.....



Wait till you agree that Siraj-ud-Daula was a Pakistani, but India gets to keep Mir Jaffer.

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> Wait till you agree that Siraj-ud-Daula was a Pakistani, but India gets to keep Mir Jaffer.



I sense potential for a very vociferous card trading game.


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## Crixus

How I watched one documentary on Netflix regarding Israeli cuesine and it was a mix of food from diff countries and they are claiming the pelestinia food as theirs ...... believe Pakistan’s case is pretty much same claiming every thing from around and the history they have they can claim due to religious compulsions...


Joe Shearer said:


> This is NOT an historical thread. It is to history what the Light Cavalry Overture is to music.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> I sense potential for a very vociferous card trading game.



All I sense is a potential ban for me based on "dubious" arbitration.

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## Joe Shearer

VCheng said:


> I'll give you credit for Abdali if you recognize my discovery of MBQ's true lineage.



Deal.



> Wait till you agree that Siraj-ud-Daula was a Pakistani, but India gets to keep Mir Jaffer.



No deal. 

Don't you remember whose descendant Iskandar Mirza was?

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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> The only name comes to mind with world renowned warrior/king from current Pakistan are King Porus , Maharajah Ranjeet Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa and they are non Muslims ....



Your point doesn't make any sense. If you want to look at it from an ethnic perspective, then look at all Punjabis, regardless of religion. if you want to look at it from a Muslim perspective, then look at all Muslims, regardless of ethnicity. You can't pick both.

No king/warrior from South Asia is "world-renowned", other than maybe Akbar (who came from Umerkot) and Ashoka (who came from somewhere in India, don't know the specifics though).

The only reason you can't think of any other rulers/warriors is because you're either lying to try and anger people or you simply don't know history. Let me help you out:

Sarang Khan, ruled over parts of northern Punjab and earned the title of "Sultan" for helping Babur in his conquests. Died bravely while fighting against Suri the usurper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Sarang_Khan

Muqarrab Khan, also ruled over parts of northern Punjab and fought under Ahmed Shah Durrani:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwi9jNLB5_rfAhUhQxUIHYElA70Q6AEIKDAA

Shahbaz Khan Kamboh, Mughal general:

https://epaper.dawn.com/DetailImage.php?StoryImage=02_10_2016_177_005

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahbaz_Khan_Kamboh

Ahmed Khan Karral, Punjabi anti-Sikh Empire and anti-colonial freedom fighter who ruled over a small amount of land in the Punjab:

https://www.dawn.com/news/793732

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Khan_Kharal

Muhammad Saleh Kamboh, Mughal noble who commanded 500 soldiers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saleh_Kamboh

Shabbir Sharif, the most decorated soldier in the history of the Pakistani army:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbir_Sharif

Bahawalpur state:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahawalpur_(princely_state)

And of course, like it or not, the Muslim Mysoreans originated from the Punjab:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...nd-tumakuru-district/articleshow/61574823.cms

There are even more I can name if you wish (but I'll refrain from some of them since they'll make you cry if I mention them and I don't really support their actions).

To top it all off, most Punjabi tribes/clans are either descended from the Muslim conquerors (e.g Awans), or come from tribes/clans with a rich military history (e.g Rajputs). Not to mention the number of Punjabis with (partial) Pashtun or Baloch ancestry (and I'm one of them, as is @OsmanAli98 ). And Lahore itself has been a major seat of Islamic power in the region for centuries, with it acting as a prominent city for almost every major Muslim empire of the region.

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## Joe Shearer

Nilgiri said:


> I sense potential for a very vociferous card trading game.



You just lost.

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## Crixus

I am still wondering if they claim Ghengis Khan as Punjabi before he migrated to Mongolia and used to speak Urdu.....


VCheng said:


> I'll give you credit for Abdali if you recognize my discovery of MBQ's true lineage.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait till you agree that Siraj-ud-Daula was a Pakistani, but India gets to keep Mir Jaffer.

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## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> Deal.
> 
> 
> 
> No deal.
> 
> Don't you remember whose descendant Iskandar Mirza was?



Sir, you do not get to choose. We choose whatever we wish to appropriate and leave you with the detritus we cannot fit into our manufactured narrative. That is the only way it can work. 



Crixus said:


> I am still wondering if they claim Ghengis Khan as Punjabi before he migrated to Mongolia and used to speak Urdu.....



Hey if that works I can declare myself King of Pakistan!

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## Joe Shearer

VCheng said:


> Sir, you do not get to choose. We choose whatever we wish to appropriate and leave you with the detritus we cannot fit into our manufactured narrative. That is the only way it can work.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey if that works I can declare myself King of Pakistan!



Dash! So I'll have to back off from the presence. <Memo to myself: remember not to wear high heels when presenting yourself at Keng VCheng's court - or is that King VChing?>

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## Crixus

If you have so many they why are you claiming a black Kannadaliga Muslim named as Tipu Sultan just FYI he was not white as Punjabi Muslims claimed on this forum


Taimur Khurram said:


> Your point doesn't make any sense. If you want to look at it from an ethnic perspective, then look at all Punjabis, regardless of religion. if you want to look at it from a Muslim perspective, then look at all Muslims, regardless of ethnicity. You can't pick both.
> 
> No king/warrior from South Asia is "world-renowned", other than maybe Akbar (who came from Umerkot) and Ashoka (who came from somewhere in India, don't know the specifics though).
> 
> The only reason you can't think of any other rulers/warriors is because you're either lying to try and anger people or you simply don't know history. Let hem help you out:
> 
> Sarang Khan, ruled over parts of northern Punjab and earned the title of "Sultan" for helping Babur in his conquests. Died bravely while fighting against Suri the usurper:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Sarang_Khan
> 
> Muqarrab Khan, also ruled over parts of northern Punjab and fought under Ahmed Shah Durrani:
> 
> https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwi9jNLB5_rfAhUhQxUIHYElA70Q6AEIKDAA
> 
> Shahbaz Khan Kamboh, Mughal general:
> 
> https://epaper.dawn.com/DetailImage.php?StoryImage=02_10_2016_177_005
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahbaz_Khan_Kamboh
> 
> Ahmed Khan Karral, Punjabi anti-Sikh Empire and anti-colonial freedom fighter who ruled over a small amount of land in the Punjab:
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/793732
> 
> https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Khan_Kharal
> 
> Muhammad Saleh Kamboh, Mughal noble who commanded 500 soldiers:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saleh_Kamboh
> 
> Shabbir Sharif, the most decorated soldier in the history of the Pakistani army:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbir_Sharif
> 
> Bahawalpur state:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahawalpur_(princely_state)
> 
> And of course, like it or not, the Muslim Mysoreans originated from the Punjab:
> 
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...nd-tumakuru-district/articleshow/61574823.cms
> 
> And to top it off, most Punjabi tribes/clans are either descended from the Muslim conquerors (e.g Awans), or come from tribes/clans with a rich military history (e.g Rajputs). Not to mention the number of Punjabis with (partial) Pashtun or Baloch ancestry (and I'm one of them, as is @OsmanAli98 ). And Lahore itself has been a major seat of Islamic power in the region for centuries, with it acting as a prominent city for almost every major Muslim empire of the region.
> 
> There are even more I can name if you wish (but I'll refrain from some of them since they'll make you cry if I mention them and I don't really support their actions).


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## Nilgiri

Crixus said:


> I am still wondering if they claim Ghengis Khan as Punjabi before he migrated to Mongolia and used to speak Urdu.....



Funny thing you bring him up. One amusing feline Bangladeshi poster claims direct lineage from Genghis Khan himself.

@Mage had a good chuckle about it when I showed him

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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> If you have so many they why are you claiming a black Kannadaliga Muslim named as Tipu Sultan just FYI he was not white as Punjabi Muslims claimed on this forum



Because his family originated from the Punjab, as has already been pointed out on this forum multiple times. 

I don't care if he was black, there are plenty of dark Punjabis. And ultimately, my respect for him comes from the fact that he was Muslim. He could be Nigerian for all I care.

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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> Your point doesn't make any sense. If you want to look at it from an ethnic perspective, then look at all Punjabis, regardless of religion. if you want to look at it from a Muslim perspective, then look at all Muslims, regardless of ethnicity. You can't pick both.
> 
> No king/warrior from South Asia is "world-renowned", other than maybe Akbar (who came from Umerkot) and Ashoka (who came from somewhere in India, don't know the specifics though).
> 
> The only reason you can't think of any other rulers/warriors is because you're either lying to try and anger people or you simply don't know history. Let hem help you out:
> 
> Sarang Khan, ruled over parts of northern Punjab and earned the title of "Sultan" for helping Babur in his conquests. Died bravely while fighting against Suri the usurper:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Sarang_Khan
> 
> Muqarrab Khan, also ruled over parts of northern Punjab and fought under Ahmed Shah Durrani:
> 
> https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwi9jNLB5_rfAhUhQxUIHYElA70Q6AEIKDAA
> 
> Shahbaz Khan Kamboh, Mughal general:
> 
> https://epaper.dawn.com/DetailImage.php?StoryImage=02_10_2016_177_005
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahbaz_Khan_Kamboh
> 
> Ahmed Khan Karral, Punjabi anti-Sikh Empire and anti-colonial freedom fighter who ruled over a small amount of land in the Punjab:
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/793732
> 
> https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Khan_Kharal
> 
> Muhammad Saleh Kamboh, Mughal noble who commanded 500 soldiers:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saleh_Kamboh
> 
> Shabbir Sharif, the most decorated soldier in the history of the Pakistani army:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbir_Sharif
> 
> Bahawalpur state:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahawalpur_(princely_state)
> 
> And of course, like it or not, the Muslim Mysoreans originated from the Punjab:
> 
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...nd-tumakuru-district/articleshow/61574823.cms
> 
> There are even more I can name if you wish (but I'll refrain from some of them since they'll make you cry if I mention them and I don't really support their actions).
> 
> To top it all off, most Punjabi tribes/clans are either descended from the Muslim conquerors (e.g Awans), or come from tribes/clans with a rich military history (e.g Rajputs). Not to mention the number of Punjabis with (partial) Pashtun or Baloch ancestry (and I'm one of them, as is @OsmanAli98 ). And Lahore itself has been a major seat of Islamic power in the region for centuries, with it acting as a prominent city for almost every major Muslim empire of the region.



It is related that the legendary Sam Goldwyn once mistakenly picked up the Los Angeles telephone directory thinking it was a film script. Spotting this, a mischievous subordinate asked him what he thought of it. 

"Well, it ain't much of a script, but, boy oh boy, what a cast!"

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## Taimur Khurram

Nilgiri said:


> Funny thing you bring him up. One amusing feline Bangladeshi poster claims direct lineage from Genghis Khan himself.
> 
> @Mage had a good chuckle about it when I showed him



Not at all impossible. Only weird thing would be to take pride in it, because that's just taking pride in being the product of rape.

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## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> Dash! So I'll have to back off from the presence. <Memo to myself: remember not to wear high heels when presenting yourself at Keng VCheng's court - or is that King VChing?>



I'd post an image here about the dress code in my court that I'd be instapermabanned, so you'll just have to imagine that one. 

(I haven't had this much fun cabin bound in the middle of a blizzard since ..... (unmentionables).  )


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## @@@

Taimur Khurram said:


> Because his family originated from the Punjab, as has already been pointed out on this forum multiple times.
> 
> I don't care if he was black, there are plenty of dark Punjabis. And ultimately, my respect for him comes from the fact that he was Muslim. He could be Nigerian for all I care.


it is the Hindus whom are stuck in Caste system mentality. They always project their disgusting beliefs onto others. They are always like "wheatish skin, white skin, dark skin". weird fetish if you ask me...

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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> It is related that the legendary Sam Goldwyn once mistakenly picked up the Los Angeles telephone directory thinking it was a film script. Spotting this, a mischievous subordinate asked him what he thought of it.
> 
> "Well, it ain't much of a script, but, boy oh boy, what a cast!"



If you have something to say spit it out.

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## Joe Shearer

Nilgiri said:


> Funny thing you bring him up. One amusing feline Bangladeshi poster claims direct lineage from Genghis Khan himself.
> 
> @Mage had a good chuckle about it when I showed him



Considering that more than 60% of the present population in certain parts bear his genes, that is NOT impossible.

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## Pakistani E

Crixus said:


> Seems like another identity crisis stealing warriors from Afghanistan and India( after 1947) and I am still wondering do the current Pakistan has any world renowned Muslim warrior except Gen Niazi.



Don't care about world famous, but if it weren't for fate and the incompetence of our own high command, every Indian would be remembering the name Lt General Akhtar Hussain Malik to this day.

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## Crixus

So why turned he black when he has white Punjabi ancestry...... dude dig deep you will find Ghinghis Khan also speaking Punjabi or at least Urdu


Taimur Khurram said:


> Because his family originated from the Punjab, as has already been pointed out on this forum multiple times.
> 
> I don't care if he was black, there are plenty of dark Punjabis. And ultimately, my respect for him comes from the fact that he was Muslim. He could be Nigerian for all I care.


----------



## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> Considering that more than 60% of the present population in certain parts bear his genes, that is NOT impossible.



And approximately 1/4 of all humanity, aggregated. Fertile busy little fellow he was, if you ask me.


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## bluesky

Nilgiri said:


> Maybe somewhat concerning the original Pakistan....given he was a real fan of Bengal (their economy, culture were seen as things to emulate and improve upon by Tipu for Mysore).
> 
> But definitely not the current guise, he would hate you pretty badly for what your military ruffians did in the late 60s and early 70s. He would identify much more strongly with Bangladesh....but his final loyalty would probably be similar to that of the Owaisi clan....to that of Hindustan.
> 
> @Atlas @Mage @Al-Ansar @bluesky
> 
> These people don't even know where Tipu's descendants live or why they live there. Not one would leave for Pakistan if given the choice...I am pretty sure of that (as bad as their fate has been over the years in India).


History must be seen from its true perspective. Most of the rulers in India belonged to Rajput fighter race before the Muslims started entering via Khyber Pass. It was the beginning of domination of Indian politics by the Afghans of Turkic and Pathan races. They scattered throughout India from west to east in Bengal and from Delhi in the north to Deccan. Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan were two of the millions of such people who lived by the sword and died with valor.

There was no country called Pakistan in the days when Tipu fought against the British-led 
*84 Punjab Regiment*. The people of Punjab were not active in *warfare leadership* like the Afghans were. Punjabi Sikhs started to dominate the west Indian politics only after Ranjit Singh. *Punjabi Muslims* followed their Sikh Gurus to *take the side of British during the expedition against Mysore *and subsequently the Sepoy Mutiny. 

So, how some idiots can claim Tipu belonged to the present-day Pakistan when the Punjabis themselves fought against his troops and killed him. Rather than talking fuzzy things the *Pakistani/Punjabi Muslims* should take pride *in killing Tipu and Muslims*. This legacy continued till the 1971 war in Bengal and is continuing in Afghanistan and Kashmir. Punjabis are a bunch of traitors fond of fighting other Muslims.

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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> So why turned he black when he has white Punjabi ancestry



Now you're just purposely being stupid. Most Punjabis are brown, with a significant minority being white or black. 

And it's probable that Tipu's family married other south Indians too, which would only make him even darker.



bluesky said:


> Punjabis are a bunch of traitors fond of fighting other Muslims.



Says the bong-boy whose country was founded on ethnonationalism.

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## @@@

Crixus said:


> S*o why turned he black when he has white Punjabi ancestry.*..... dude dig deep you will find Ghinghis Khan also speaking Punjabi or at least Urdu


Hindu fetish for skin color continues.

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## Joe Shearer

bluesky said:


> History must be seen from its true perspective. Most of the rulers in India belonged to Rajput fighter race before the Muslims started entering via Khyber Pass. It was the beginning of domination of Indian politics by the Afghans of Turkic and Pathan races. They scattered throughout India from west to east in Bengal and from Delhi in the north to Deccan. Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan were two of the millions of such people who lived by the sword and died with valor.
> 
> There was no country called Pakistan in the days when Tipu fought against the British-led
> *84 Punjab Regiment*. The people of Punjab were not active in *warfare leadership* like the Afghans were. Punjabi Sikhs started to dominate the west Indian politics only after Ranjit Singh. *Punjabi Muslims* followed their Sikh Gurus to *take the side of British during the expedition against Mysore *and subsequently the Sepoy Mutiny.
> 
> So, how some idiots can claim Tipu belonged to the present-day Pakistan when the Punjabis themselves fought against his troops and killed him. Rather than talking fuzzy things the *Pakistani/Punjabi Muslims* should take pride *in killing Tipu and Muslims*. This legacy continued till the 1971 war in Bengal and is continuing in Afghanistan and Kashmir. Punjabis are a bunch of traitors fond of fighting other Muslims.



That was sobering. And fact first. 
দাদা কইতে নাই। ইনারা সৈতে পারেন না।

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> in the middle of a blizzard



You know its bad when up here in Canada we have an "extreme cold warning" in effect for last cpl days (and u arent too far from where I am...so you lot are honorary Canada I suppose). 

I hate being indoors on the weekend...bleh! But this passes the time a little bit....along with some good tea, banter with missus, few cleaning chores and a spot of chess too.

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> You know its bad when up here in Canada we have an "extreme cold warning" in effect for last cpl days (and u arent too far from where I am...so you lot are honorary Canada I suppose).
> 
> I hate being indoors on the weekend...bleh! But this passes the time a little bit....along with some good tea, banter with missus, few cleaning chores and a spot of chess too.



And to think I ride a motorcycle here in all months of the year. 

Honorary Canadian sounds good to me. Thanks!

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## Taimur Khurram

bluesky said:


> fond of fighting other Muslims.



Our city, Lahore has literally been the seat of Islamic power in the region for centuries. We've had numerous Imams who did great work for Islam, such as Sanaullah Amristari. Brave Mujahids have also come from us, such as Shahbaz Khan Kamboh, and numerous Islamic thinkers such as Allama Iqbal are from our people. And we've produced great politicians who fought for Muslim rights too, such as Rehmat Ali.

But the bong-boy who comes from a nation founded on ethnonationalism has the audacity to call us bad Muslims.

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> I hate being indoors on the weekend...bleh! But this passes the time a little bit.



Hey, is that another invitation?

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## Crixus

@VCheng wow now I get why all Pakistanis restaurants in west have confusing name ..... these guys are really awesome regarding history and identity


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## Nilgiri

Joe Shearer said:


> Considering that more than 60% of the present population in certain parts bear his genes, that is NOT impossible.



Yes in certain parts, in central asia . Not saying its impossible....but he based it totally on the turkic horsemen story in BD...which I find pretty weird.


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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> @VCheng wow now I get why all Pakistanis restaurants in west have confusing name ..... these guys are really awesome regarding history and identity



Says the Bharti whose country is named after his enemy's river.

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## VCheng

Crixus said:


> @VCheng wow now I get why all Pakistanis restaurants in west have confusing name ..... these guys are really awesome regarding history and identity



Nah man you have no idea just how desperate this revisionism is getting to be just to fabricate a preferred national narrative.

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## Joe Shearer

Dewaneh said:


> it is the Hindus whom are stuck in Caste system mentality. They always project their disgusting beliefs onto others. They are always like "wheatish skin, white skin, dark skin". weird fetish if you ask me...



Yeah, right.

These damn racist Yindoos, messing up the neighbourhood.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Real Rajput blood makes us tall, muscular, fair-skinned with light hair.
> 
> This because of our nomadic Central Asian Irani origin.


----------



## Pakistani E

bluesky said:


> There was no country called Pakistan in the days when Tipu fought against the British-led
> *84 Punjab Regiment*. The people of Punjab were not active in *warfare leadership* like the Afghans were. Punjabi Sikhs started to dominate the west Indian politics only after Ranjit Singh. *Punjabi Muslims* followed their Sikh Gurus to *take the side of British during the expedition against Mysore *and subsequently the Sepoy Mutiny.
> 
> So, how some idiots can claim Tipu belonged to the present-day Pakistan when the Punjabis themselves fought against his troops and killed him. Rather than talking fuzzy things the *Pakistani/Punjabi Muslims* should take pride *in killing Tipu and Muslims*. This legacy continued till the 1971 war in Bengal and is continuing in Afghanistan and Kashmir. Punjabis are a bunch of traitors fond of fighting other Muslims.



The 84th Punjab Regiment at that time was not recruited from actual Punjab, nor was it called the Punjab regiment at that time, as far as I know. Wasn't it called/part of the Madras Native Infantry or something? Punjab was conquered by the British much later.

You just saw the word Punjabi and got triggered? Pathetic little racist idiot. I don't need the likes of you to pass judgement on someone else being a "traitor". Ghaddaron ka desh, Bangladesh.

The rest of your post is pure trash and only betrays your own ignorance. "Sikh Gurus" on who's command Punjabi Musalmans fought for the British. What a joke.

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## Nilgiri

bluesky said:


> History must be seen from its true perspective. Most of the rulers in India belonged to Rajput fighter race before the Muslims started entering via Khyber Pass. It was the beginning of domination of Indian politics by the Afghans of Turkic and Pathan races. They scattered throughout India from west to east in Bengal and from Delhi in the north to Deccan. Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan were two of the millions of such people who lived by the sword and died with valor.
> 
> There was no country called Pakistan in the days when Tipu fought against the British-led
> *84 Punjab Regiment*. The people of Punjab were not active in *warfare leadership* like the Afghans were. Punjabi Sikhs started to dominate the west Indian politics only after Ranjit Singh. *Punjabi Muslims* followed their Sikh Gurus to *take the side of British during the expedition against Mysore *and subsequently the Sepoy Mutiny.
> 
> So, how some idiots can claim Tipu belonged to the present-day Pakistan when the Punjabis themselves fought against his troops and killed him. Rather than talking fuzzy things the *Pakistani/Punjabi Muslims* should take pride *in killing Tipu and Muslims*. This legacy continued till the 1971 war in Bengal and is continuing in Afghanistan and Kashmir. Punjabis are a bunch of traitors fond of fighting other Muslims.



Wow the brazen rawness that only you can do. Sky-san you just let it all rip...haha


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## @@@

Crixus said:


> @VCheng wow now I get why all Pakistanis restaurants in west have confusing name ..... these guys are really awesome regarding history and identity


This is the staple Dish of Pakistan. Guess the meat.







PS: I am really sorry to other Pakistanis for posting this mouth-watering dish.


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## Crixus

@Joe Shearer @Nilgiri see now they are getting angry ...... google Bharat and you will come to know about it’s meaning as you called me Bharati..... we were different names in different eras google jambudweep also if you want to go bit more in history....

Just FYI we have enough history of our own we don’t need to claim some one to be our own


Taimur Khurram said:


> Says the Bharti whose country is named after his enemy's river.

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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> If you have something to say spit it out.



I did. What did you think it was?


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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> see now they are getting angry



No anger, just the facts. You leech off of Pakistan's history and then have the audacity to complain when Muslims respect other Muslims from history. It's too ironic.



Joe Shearer said:


> I did.



Do it again, this time clearly. I'm not in the mood for word games.

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## Joe Shearer

Sher Shah Awan said:


> Don't care about world famous, but if it weren't for fate and the incompetence of our own high command, every Indian would be remembering the name Lt General Akhtar Hussain Malik to this day.



Hate to contradict you but General Malik had a good plan and never got to execute it. It remained a plan. Another general executed his own plan brilliantly, and was victorious. 

No, I'm not giving you the name. Ask Sam Goldwyn.

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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> Just FYI we have enough history of our own



Clearly you don't if you feel the need to claim Panini, Porus, Akbar, Harappa, Mohenjo Daro, Taxila, Bakhshali zero, etc.

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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> No anger, just the facts. You leech off of Pakistan's history and then have the audacity to complain when Muslims respect other Muslims from history. It's too ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> Do it again, this time clearly. I'm not in the mood for word games.



Do I look, or sound, like I care a flying **** for your mood?

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> And to think I ride a motorcycle here in all months of the year.



Ahaha...you need your head checked maybe lol. I wouldn't dare!....its crappy enough with 4 wheels on terra firma a lot of the time. 



VCheng said:


> Honorary Canadian sounds good to me. Thanks!



(East of the prairies) Canada's zone of influence externally... basically is Maine, Vermont, some of NH, upstate NY, great lakes area...and the piece de resistance Minnesota (it surprised me how much more Canadian those ppl are than Canadians themselves lol). 

It roughly correlates with the prevalence of Tim Hortons (Timmys!) in an area. 

I've been west of the prairies and rockies too....and its a different kind of Canada there and different kind of influences overall on both sides of border. It was all so strange. I suppose its too much weed, not enough maple syrup.

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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> Says the Bharti whose country is named after his enemy's river.



You really don't know much, do you?

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## Crixus

Pakistan is just 70 years old just FYI and Islam is 1400 years old just FYI 
these are hard facts ... never heard of any mention of this word Pakistan in historical texts .... google Bharat or jumbodweep compare the age of Pakistan with them ...




Taimur Khurram said:


> No anger, just the facts. You leech off of Pakistan's history and then have the audacity to complain when Muslims respect other Muslims from history. It's too ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> Do it again, this time clearly. I'm not in the mood for word games.


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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> Do I look, or sound, like I care a flying **** for your mood?



Then don't bother barking in the first place.



Joe Shearer said:


> You really don't know much, do you?



Do you?

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Ahaha...you need your head checked maybe lol. I wouldn't dare!....its crappy enough with 4 wheels on terra firma a lot of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> (East of the prairies) Canada's zone of influence externally... basically is Maine, Vermont, some of NH, upstate NY, great lakes area...and the piece de resistance Minnesota (it surprised me how much more Canadian those ppl are than Canadians themselves lol).
> 
> It roughly correlates with the prevalence of Tim Hortons (Timmys!) in an area.
> 
> I've been west of the prairies and rockies too....and its a different kind of Canada there and different kind of influences overall on both sides of border. It was all so strange. I suppose its too much weed, not enough maple syrup.



Ah yes, the old Timmy's Index, not to forget the Maple Syrup Coefficient. 

(Just wait until NYS competes with Ontario for the Weed Championships.  )

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## @@@

Here comes the "Bharat" masturbators. How "Bharat" is a 50,000 year old civilization and what not. Extremely laughable. Their only proof are some historically inaccurate and fantasy Vedic books.

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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> Pakistan is just 70 years old



Lmao did the land just spring into existence in 1947?

And Pakistan itself was literally just made as a state for the Muslims of British India. Therefore, the history of Muslims in what used to be British India is pretty much ours (especially the ones from north India, since most Pakistanis are pretty similar to the Muslims of that region).



Crixus said:


> and Islam is 1400 years old



Monotheism is much older, and Islam is just an extension of that.

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## VCheng

Crixus said:


> Pakistan is just 70 years old just FYI and Islam is 1400 years old just FYI



Just wait until it is proven that Hazrat Adam was a Muslim.


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## Taimur Khurram

VCheng said:


> Just wait until it is proven that Hazrat Adam was a Muslim.



What do you think he was? Hindu?

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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> Then don't bother barking in the first place.



I said my say. You planning to do anything about it, or just passing the time of day?



> Do you?



Yes. At least more than what you put down. Sindhu, and Hindu, were the names of the river and the people, not jst the river. When it came to the country, it was Hind. The Greeks pronounced it 'ind, and that's how the name became Indika. 

Remember Megasthenes, and whom he visited, and where?


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## Crixus

You said history of Pakistan not history of land ..... again just FYI


Taimur Khurram said:


> Lmao did the land just spring into existence in 1947?
> 
> And Pakistan itself was literally just made as a state for the Muslims of British India. Therefore, the history of Muslims in what used to be British India is pretty much ours (especially the ones from north India, since most Pakistanis are pretty similar to the Muslims of that region).
> 
> 
> 
> Monotheism is much older, and Islam is just an extension of that.


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## Nilgiri

Crixus said:


> @Joe Shearer @Nilgiri see now they are getting angry ...... google Bharat and you will come to know about it’s meaning as you called me Bharati..... we were different names in different eras google jambudweep also if you want to go bit more in history....
> 
> Just FYI we have enough history of our own we don’t need to claim some one to be our own



We tend to have elder names like Bharat after certain (foundation to larger cultural psyche) dynasties. China is another one that comes to mind (given what their named emperor did to unify the disparate forces in quite a permanent way)....though the Chinese themselves prefer "Middle Kingdom" officially.

The attitudes/complexes of newer entities/definitions/revisionists seeking to define/prove themselves can be excused. I do enjoy a chuckle from time to time.

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## @@@

Taimur Khurram said:


> What do you think he was? Hindu?


Indians believe that Hitler and Trump are Hindu. Subsequently, they worship them.


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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> Sindhu, and Hindu, were the names of the river and the people, not jst the river. When it came to the country, it was Hind. The Greeks pronounced it 'ind, and that's how the name became Indika.



But ultimately, it is derived from the river. So why keep it?


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## Joe Shearer

Dewaneh said:


> Here comes the "Bharat" masturbators. How "Bharat" is a 50,000 year old civilization and what not. Extremely laughable. Their only proof are some historically inaccurate and fantasy Vedic books.



50,000? Don't be ridiculous. Humanity came out of Africa about 40,000 years ago.

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## Pakistani E

Joe Shearer said:


> Hate to contradict you but General Malik had a good plan and never got to execute it. It remained a plan. Another general executed his own plan brilliantly, and was victorious.
> 
> No, I'm not giving you the name. Ask Sam Goldwyn.



Well according to many former Pakistani army/airforce officers (Read my uncles and dad), General Akhtar Hussain Malik was close to dislodging Indian forces in Ankhur region?

I know he was changed by Ayub and replaced by one of his poodles, which caused a delay in the offensive and allowed the Indians to regroup. 

Excuse my ignorance, but can you elaborate further on Sam Goldwyn? When I google the name, it comes up with some Hollywood producer.

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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> But ultimately, it is derived from the river. So why keep it?



No, it wasn't. Look it up. I'm not a nanny. And, in case you didn't know, the Indus flows through India before it gets to Pakistan. Look it up, too.

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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> You said history of Pakistan not history of land



Okay, what is now Pakistan. Happy?


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## @@@

Joe Shearer said:


> 50,000? Don't be ridiculous. Humanity came out of Africa about 40,000 years ago.


Thats your peoples' propositions. You tell them.
Here is the link to pathetic units of measurements of extremist Hindus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga

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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> No, it wasn't.



Yes, it was. You yourself said so. 



Joe Shearer said:


> And, in case you didn't know, the Indus flows through India before it gets to Pakistan.



And it flows through Tibet before it gets to India. Are Tibetans also Indian?



What ultimately matters is where does most of it flow? Answer: Pakistan.

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## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> 50,000? Don't be ridiculous. Humanity came out of Africa about 40,000 years ago.



And they were greeted by the denizens of the Indus when they arrived here, obviously.

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## Crixus

China , Japan , Persia, Iraq or Mesopotamia, Syria , Egypt , Bharat.... they have strong history..... the problem is with the nascent countries like Pakistan and Israel ...


Nilgiri said:


> We tend to have elder names like Bharat after certain (foundation to larger cultural psyche) dynasties. China is another one that comes to mind (given what their named emperor did to unify the disparate forces in quite a permanent way)....though the Chinese themselves prefer "Middle Kingdom" officially.
> 
> The attitudes/complexes of newer entities/definitions/revisionists seeking to define/prove themselves can be excused. I do enjoy a chuckle from time to time.


----------



## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> The attitudes/complexes of newer entities/definitions/revisionists seeking to define/prove themselves can be excused. I do enjoy a chuckle from time to time.



They could be excused, except that these damn jokers are effing serious in their delusions being forced on everyone else!

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## Joe Shearer

Sher Shah Awan said:


> Well according to many former Pakistani army/airforce officers (Read my uncles and dad), General Akhtar Hussain Malik was close to dislodging Indian forces in Ankhur region?
> 
> I know he was changed by Ayub and replaced by one of his poodles, which caused a delay in the offensive and allowed the Indians to regroup.
> 
> Excuse my ignorance, but can you elaborate further on Sam Goldwyn? When I google the name, it comes up with some Hollywood producer.



That account is perfectly correct; the poodle was Yahya. It caused a two-delay, and Harbaksh managed to put in an ad hoc detachment.

But there was another....

For Sam Goldwyn,



Joe Shearer said:


> It is related that the legendary Sam Goldwyn once mistakenly picked up the Los Angeles telephone directory thinking it was a film script. Spotting this, a mischievous subordinate asked him what he thought of it.
> 
> "Well, it ain't much of a script, but, boy oh boy, what a cast!"

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## Crixus

So how old is the history of country which is just 70 years old....


Taimur Khurram said:


> Okay, what is now Pakistan. Happy?


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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> Bharat.... they have strong history.....



Clearly not lol.



Crixus said:


> the problem is with the nascent countries like Pakistan and Israel ...



Israel represents the ancient history of the Jews (which is much more impressive and older than yours), and Pakistan represents the history of the Muslims from British India (which is also much more impressive than yours).

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## Joe Shearer

Dewaneh said:


> Thats your peoples' propositions. You tell them.
> Here is the link to pathetic units of measurements of extremist Hindus
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga



Only some fringe element idiots. You remember the discussion on Jinns?


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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> So how old is the history of country which is just 70 years old....



As old as the history of it's land and people.

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## @@@

Taimur Khurram said:


> Clearly not lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel represents the ancient history of the Jews (which is much more impressive and older than yours), and Pakistan represents the history of the Muslims from British India.


Bani Israel have been promised land in the Quran many times. Ghazwatul Hind (Sindh) is in the Hadith of course. Modern-day Pakistan. 

Meanwhile, false Hinduism has never had a correct prophecy.

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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> You remember the discussion on Jinns?



Choose your next words wisely.

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## Pakistani E

Crixus said:


> China , Japan , Persia, Iraq or Mesopotamia, Syria , Egypt , Bharat.... they have strong history..... the problem is with the nascent countries like Pakistan and Israel ...



You are right. The people of what is now Pakistan simply did not exist. The Punjabis, the Sindhis etc, are all fake people. Invented by these modern day people called the Pakistanis who migrated from planet mars and stole the history of real Indian people from Odisha and Kerala.


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## Crixus

Sorry Pakistan is not even 70 years old you get created on 16th dec 1971 my mistake....


Taimur Khurram said:


> Clearly not lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel represents the ancient history of the Jews (which is much more impressive and older than yours), and Pakistan represents the history of the Muslims from British India (which is also much more impressive than yours).


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## Taimur Khurram

Dewaneh said:


> Bani Israel have been promised land in the Quran many times. Ghazwatul Hind (Sindh) is in the Hadith of course. Modern-day Pakistan.
> 
> Meanwhile, false Hinduism has never had a correct prophecy.



Ghazwa e Hind extends far beyond Sindh, and includes all of the sub-continent. The ahadith actually refer to Sindh (modern-day southern Pakistan) as a separate region to Hind.

Back then, western Pakistan was Sistan, eastern Pakistan was Hind, southern Pakistan was Sindh, and northern Pakistan didn't really get a name.

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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> Yes, it was. You yourself said so.



//QUOTE="Joe Shearer, post: 11114959, member: 15420"]I said my say. You planning to do anything about it, or just passing the time of day?



Yes. At least more than what you put down. Sindhu, and Hindu, were the names of the river and the people, not jst the river. When it came to the country, it was Hind. The Greeks pronounced it 'ind, and that's how the name became Indika.

Remember Megasthenes, and whom he visited, and where?//

I've had some pretty vulnerable students, none as vulnerable as this. 





> And it flows through Tibet before it gets to India. Are Tibetans also Indian?
> 
> 
> 
> What ultimately matters is where does most of it flow? Answer: Pakistan.



Heh. We still have the river in our territory, and the name of the people. You don't. Wherever it flows.


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## Crixus

If you have so much they why you guys latching on kannadaliga...... have your own identity instead of digging out irrelevant roots of some warrior kings here and there


Sher Shah Awan said:


> You are right. The people of what is now Pakistan simply did not exist. The Punjabis, the Sindhis etc, are all fake people. Invented by these modern day people called the Pakistanis who migrated from planet mars and stole the history of real Indian people from Odisha and Kerala.


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## @@@

Joe Shearer said:


> Only some fringe element idiots. You remember the discussion on Jinns?


*Here is an excerpt of the ideology of psycho Hindu extremists.* Perhaps one of the most pathetic/hilarious things in the world (Along with tons of other Hindu myths):

Calculating the elapsed time since Brahmas' Creation (LOL WTF) **
432000 × 10 × 1000 × 2 = 8.64 billion years (2 Kalpa (day and night))

8.64 × 109 × 30 × 12 = 3.1104 Trillion Years (1 year of Brahma)
3.1104 × 1012 × 50 = 155.52 trillion years (50 years of Brahma)

(6 × 71 × 4320000) + 7 × 1.728 × 10^6 = 1852416000 years elapsed in first six Manvataras, and Sandhi Kalas in the current Kalpa

27 × 4320000 = 116640000 years elapsed in first 27 Mahayugas of the current Manvantara

1.728 × 10^6 + 1.296 × 10^6 + 864000 = 3888000 years elapsed in current Mahayuga

3102 + 2017 = 5119 years elapsed in current Kaliyuga.

So the total time elapsed since current Brahma is

155520000000000 + 1852416000 + 116640000 + 3888000 + 5119 = _*155,521,972,949,120 years*_

(one hundred fifty-five trillion, five hundred twenty-one billion, nine hundred seventy-two million, nine hundred forty-nine thousand, one hundred twenty years) as of 2018 AD

Total age of Brahma is 100 (Brahma Years) which is equal to _*311,040,000,000,000 Human years*_

The current Kali Yuga began at midnight 17 February / 18 February in 3102 BCE in the proleptic Julian calendar. As per the information above about Yuga periods, only 5,120 years are passed out of 432,000 years of current Kali Yuga, and hence another 426,880 years are left to complete this 28th Kali Yuga of Vaivaswatha Manvantara.

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## Pakistani E

Joe Shearer said:


> That account is perfectly correct; the poodle was Yahya. It caused a two-delay, and Harbaksh managed to put in an ad hoc detachment.
> 
> But there was another....
> 
> For Sam Goldwyn,



Ah, a Bond reference. Should have known.


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> Heh. We still have the river in our territory,



A rather measly volume of it. Not to mention it lies in Kashmir, a disputed territory that doesn't really like the rest of Hindustan.



Joe Shearer said:


> and the name of the people.



But that's based on a rather weak foundation, as has been made apparent.



Joe Shearer said:


> You don't.



I'm okay with that. Identities change with time.

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## Joe Shearer

Dewaneh said:


> *Here is an excerpt of the ideology of psycho Hindu extremists.* Perhaps one of the most pathetic/hilarious things in the world (Along with tons of other Hindu myths):
> 
> Calculating the elapsed time since Brahmas' Creation (LOL WTF) **
> 432000 × 10 × 1000 × 2 = 8.64 billion years (2 Kalpa (day and night))
> 
> 8.64 × 109 × 30 × 12 = 3.1104 Trillion Years (1 year of Brahma)
> 3.1104 × 1012 × 50 = 155.52 trillion years (50 years of Brahma)
> 
> (6 × 71 × 4320000) + 7 × 1.728 × 10^6 = 1852416000 years elapsed in first six Manvataras, and Sandhi Kalas in the current Kalpa
> 
> 27 × 4320000 = 116640000 years elapsed in first 27 Mahayugas of the current Manvantara
> 
> 1.728 × 10^6 + 1.296 × 10^6 + 864000 = 3888000 years elapsed in current Mahayuga
> 
> 3102 + 2017 = 5119 years elapsed in current Kaliyuga.
> 
> So the total time elapsed since current Brahma is
> 
> 155520000000000 + 1852416000 + 116640000 + 3888000 + 5119 = _*155,521,972,949,120 years*_
> 
> (one hundred fifty-five trillion, five hundred twenty-one billion, nine hundred seventy-two million, nine hundred forty-nine thousand, one hundred twenty years) as of 2018 AD
> 
> Total age of Brahma is 100 (Brahma Years) which is equal to _*311,040,000,000,000 Human years*_
> 
> The current Kali Yuga began at midnight 17 February / 18 February in 3102 BCE in the proleptic Julian calendar. As per the information above about Yuga periods, only 5,120 years are passed out of 432,000 years of current Kali Yuga, and hence another 426,880 years are left to complete this 28th Kali Yuga of Vaivaswatha Manvantara.



You get an A- in Hindu time-keeping. 

Now try for an A+.

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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> Sorry Pakistan is not even 70 years old you get created on 16th dec 1971 my mistake....



India is also pretty young since it was founded in 1947.

And if you want to count the real start of a nation's history as being from the last point it lost any land, then India was created in 1999 since in Kargil you lost Point 5353.

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## Pakistani E

Crixus said:


> If you have so much they why you guys latching on kannadaliga......



Bhai sub kuch tumhara hay. May khud kal Pakistan pehli baar aya hun, yahan pe kuch Kerala ke log re rahe thay. Main abhi abhi unke gher aur tariqh pe qabiz hogaya hu.

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## @@@

Joe Shearer said:


> You get an A- in Hindu time-keeping.
> 
> Now try for an A+.


Hindu Time-Keeping check. You dare to attempt Hindu Sciences?


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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> A rather measly volume of it. Not to mention is lies in Kashmir, a disputed territory that doesn't really like the rest of Hindustan.



So? Even if we had two feet of it, we have it, and the name, and you don't.



> But that's based on a rather weak foundation, as has been made apparent.



So you couldn't figure out what the reference to Megasthenes meant. 



> I'm okay with that. Identities change with time.



Yeah, we know, but not too well. You are the experts, unchallenged, and know all about it. So does @bluesky and the rest of his mates.

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## Pakistani E

Joe Shearer said:


> So does @bluesky and the rest of his mates.



Any reason why he/she/it left a diatribe full of racism and misinformation but did not reply to my post #92?


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## Crixus

Bade bhai go through this whole thread why people are getting such responses..... you have greats from the land which is now Pakistan but alas they are misfit in your relegious paradigm , the history which suits your religious paradigm is from some where else ... Abdali Afghanistan , Ghauri Afghanistan, Tipu Sultan Karnatka , Nadir Shah Iran ..... when the foundation of a country is based on specific type of hate .... then dilemmas like this thread are pretty much reality


Sher Shah Awan said:


> Bhai sub kuch tumhara hay. May khud kal Pakistan pehli baar aya hun, yahan pe kuch Kerala ke log re rahe thay. Mainay abhi abhi unke gher aur tariqh pe qabiz hogaya hu.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> India is also pretty young since it was founded in 1947.
> 
> And if you want to count the real start of a nation's history as being from the last point it lost any land, then India was created in 1999 since in Kargil you lost Point 5353.



Right again. Are we supposed to count the vote of the UN in this too? The one where they decided that the India of 1947 was the same as the founder nation India? Look it up. Zafrullah Khan was the unsuccessful Pakistani representative.

I don't suppose you'll make us count Siachen towards our age? That would be so mean!

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## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> Yeah, we know, but not too well. You are the experts, unchallenged, and know all about it. So does @bluesky and the rest of his mates.



The way I look at it my father was born in India on his ancestral lands, and served his nation in the armed forces. He moved to Pakistan in 1947 and served there too. I was born in Pakistan and served my country to the best of my ability until I exercised the same right of migration as my father did. I still remember his anguish in 1971 like it was yesterday, and his stories from the Partition. Now his grandchildren are all grown up here and guess where my grandchildren are being raised.

Pretty straightforward version of history if you ask me, that works for a simpleton like me, no convolutions necessary.

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## Pakistani E

Crixus said:


> Bade bhai go through this whole thread why people are getting such responses..... you have greats from the land which is now Pakistan but alas they are misfit in your relegious paradigm , the history which suits your religious paradigm is from some where else ... Abdali Afghanistan , Ghauri Afghanistan, Tipu Sultan Karnatka , Nadir Shah Iran ..... when the foundation of a country is based on specific type of hate .... then dilemmas like this thread are pretty much reality



Tell me one thing. You guys consider yourself part of a Hindu civilization, do you guys not claim and/or are proud of its achievements/rulers/empires?

Why should Muslims not do the same? Or have you, like some other Indians, set up your own standards of measuring certain things?

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## Joe Shearer

Sher Shah Awan said:


> Any reason why he/she/it left a diatribe full of racism and misinformation but did not reply to my post #92?



I think people are running scared of this thread. Too many Serbians (not you, but how are they to know?).


Taimur Khurram said:


> India is also pretty young since it was founded in 1947.
> 
> And if you want to count the real start of a nation's history as being from the last point it lost any land, then India was created in 1999 since in Kargil you lost Point 5353.



Hmm.

So when does your count start?



Sher Shah Awan said:


> Tell me one thing. You guys consider yourself part of a Hindu civilization, do you guys not claim and/or are proud of its achievements/rulers/empires?
> 
> Why should Muslims not do the same? Or have you, like some other Indians, set up your own standards of measuring certain things?



Whoever said that they shouldn't? I think you are mistaking people's reactions to a demented teenager as their general attitude. It isn't.

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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> So? Even if we had two feet of it, we have it, and the name, and you don't.



And I already told you, I'm okay with that. 



Joe Shearer said:


> Hmm.
> 
> So when does your count start?



Depends on what criteria you use. However, when you compare us with others, the same criteria must be used.


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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> And I already told you, I'm okay with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on what criteria you use. However, when you compare us with others, the same criteria must be used.



I don't know. You're the expert on land loss, tossing dates and figures around. I never question experts.


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> They could be excused, except that these damn jokers are effing serious in their delusions being forced on everyone else!



Hey thats what a political boundary is for...enforced by steel and lead...they are the manifestation of the limit of the tribe's final (hard) reach on whatever self delusions and fantasies it perpetuates for whatever purpose basically. It's a final check valve that exists so this world does have enough variance to let different civilisational/political combinations arise and blossom, atrophy and then blossom again (in whatever way).

Tribe internal affairs, I leave to the tribe to sort out .... I empathise, even sympathise with lot of good (as I perceive) parts of various tribes...but ultimately each tribe (that I am not present or have connection to for my individual identity and sustenance) has to sort out its narratives (esp raison d'etre) and related issues itself. 

No one outside it has any larger moral mandate to intervene for domestic stuff (which in relevant time frame is sustained by quite indomitable forces of free thought and free conscience in the end)...the total summation of some issue by all the relevant forces concerning it within a tribe...is reflective of its constituents in the end. That is all....because history tells us such intervention requires much more destruction and scarring over time....I'd rather have peace and let people believe what they want to.

This is why I am against any kind of globalism BTW....because it strips away the right for each society/polity to choose its own destiny and what to believe in etc.. Everyone can make their arguments best they can, in the end each tribe chooses which are best for it.... by how much responsibility it decides to shoulder on itself on various priorities and ideals of those arguments. Initiation of violence on another for what they think and say...means you have lost the argument...then I suppose its time to let fate choose who "wins".


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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> you have greats from the land which is now Pakistan but alas they are misfit in your relegious paradigm



We have plenty of Muslim heroes from Pakistan.



Crixus said:


> Abdali Afghanistan



He was Pashtun, and Pakistan has the world's largest number of Pashtuns. 



Crixus said:


> Ghauri Afghanistan



His family are disputed as either being Pashtun or assimilating into the Pashtun ethnicity. Either way, still related to Pashtuns. 



Crixus said:


> Tipu Sultan Karnatka



His family originally came from the Punjab, as has been discussed. And as said before, Pakistan was made as a nation for the Muslims of British India, so obviously we'll appreciate the history of Muslims from what was British India. 



Crixus said:


> Nadir Shah Iran



Lmao nobody views him as their hero. 

Anyway, I thought you said Pakistan only came into being in 1947? If that's the case, what's the problem with us taking heroes from other places on the basis of them being Muslim just like us since as per you we have no history?

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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> Then don't bother barking in the first place.



I said my say. You planning to do anything about it, or just passing the time of day?



> Do you?



Yes. At least more than what you put down. Sindhu, and Hindu, were the names of the river. When it came to the country, it was Hind. The Greeks pronounced it 'ind, and that's how the name became Indika.


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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> Sindhu, and Hindu, were the names of the river. When it came to the country, it was Hind.



And Hind itself came from the river, Hindu. So much for knowing more than me.


----------



## Pakistani E

Joe Shearer said:


> I think people are running scared of this thread. Too many Serbians (not you, but how are they to know?).



To be honest, I didn't really address the OP myself, but went in to defensive mode against some of the troll posts. 

Not much worthwhile being discussed here. Just the same old stuff, recycled. I'll show myself out, it's late.

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## Crixus

Now that’s what I am pointing in whole thread I can admire Rajaraja chola but cant say he has geography roots from my area , I can admire Ahom kings of Assam but can’t say they have roots from my area you can admire any rulers but pulling them geographical to your location is weird way of claiming your right ..... hope you get what I am saying you can admire Ayubi but can’t say he has roots in Pakistan ......


Sher Shah Awan said:


> Tell me one thing. You guys consider yourself part of a Hindu civilization, do you guys not claim and/or are proud of its achievements/rulers/empires?
> 
> Why should Muslims not do the same? Or have you, like some other Indians, set up your own standards of measuring certain things?


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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> when the foundation of a country is based on specific type of hate



Not hate, just the facts. Muslims and Hindus from what used to be British India have rarely ever gotten along and are to this day very different to one another. 

Pakistan is just the by-product of this.

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Hey thats what a political boundary is for...enforced by steel and lead...they are the manifestation of the limit of the tribe's final (hard) reach on whatever self delusions and fantasies it perpetuates for whatever purpose basically. It's a final check valve that exists so this world does have enough variance to let different civilisational/political combinations arise and blossom, atrophy and then blossom again (in whatever way).
> 
> Tribe internal affairs, I leave to the tribe to sort out .... I empathise, even sympathise with lot of good (as I perceive) parts of various tribes...but ultimately each tribe (that I am not present or have connection to for my individual identity and sustenance) has to sort out its narratives (esp raison d'etre) and related issues itself.
> 
> No one outside it has any larger moral mandate to intervene for domestic stuff (which in relevant time frame is sustained by quite indomitable forces of free thought and free conscience in the end)...the total summation of some issue by all the relevant forces concerning it within a tribe...is reflective of its constituents in the end. That is all....because history tells us such intervention requires much more destruction and scarring over time....I'd rather have peace and let people believe what they want to.
> 
> This is why I am against any kind of globalism BTW....because it strips away the right for each society/polity to choose its own destiny and what to believe in etc.. Everyone can make their arguments best they can, in the end each tribe chooses which are best for it.... by how much responsibility it decides to shoulder on itself on various priorities and ideals of those arguments. Initiation of violence on another for what they think and say...means you have lost the argument...then I suppose its time to let fate choose who "wins".



That would work only as long as political boundaries can be enforced, but remember that they are always drawn and redrawn according to the dictates of international geopolitics. If Churchill's sneeze matters, then what faith to put in such boundaries?


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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> . hope you get what I am saying you can admire Ayubi but can’t say he has roots in Pakistan



Nobody ever does such a thing. We know Ghauri came from Ghor, we know Ghaznavi came from Ghazni, we know Qasim came from Arabia, etc. 

We never even said Tipu came from the Punjab. We simply pointed out that his family has roots there, just like others such as Abu Fazl had their roots in Sindh (and Yemen, if you believe his claim of Arab origin).

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## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> Yes. At least more than what you put down. Sindhu, and Hindu, were the names of the river. When it came to the country, it was Hind. The Greeks pronounced it 'ind, and that's how the name became Indika.



Let us get one definition clearly put across. India is the land mass in South Asia between the Indus on the west, and the Irrawaddy to the east, and the Himalayas to the north, as its own sub-continent.

There, I said it.

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> but remember that they are always drawn and redrawn according to the dictates of international geopolitics.



These are (mostly) initiations of force/violence I would argue...and then that goes to another realm with escalation ladders and all the fun, exciting, "dynamic" stuff ppl in this forum revel in cheering on (nothing gets the emotional blood pumping quite so much among the riffraff in general...like "Dulce et Decorum est pro patria Mori")....compared to my bigger (boring to most riffraff) interest governing statics/core psyche/existence etc.

Thus I'm just mostly talking when things are relatively stable rather than in flux as far as these boundaries go.

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> These are (mostly) initiations of force/violence I would argue...and then that goes to another realm with escalation ladders and all the fun, exciting, "dynamic" stuff ppl in this forum revel in cheering on (nothing gets the emotional blood pumping quite so much among the riffraff in general...like "Dulce et Decorum est pro patria Mori")....compared to my bigger (boring to most riffraff) interest governing statics/core psyche/existence etc.
> 
> Thus I'm just mostly talking when things are relatively stable rather than in flux as far as these boundaries go.



As you say, stability of such borders is only relative.

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## Crixus

1971 proved that even Muslims of South Asia can’t live together don’t you think the premise of 47 division proved null in 71 just in less then 25 years 



Taimur Khurram said:


> Not hate, just the facts. Muslims and Hindus from what used to be British India have rarely ever gotten along and are to this day very different to one another.
> 
> Pakistan is just the by-product of this.


----------



## VCheng

Crixus said:


> 1971 proved that even Muslims of South Asia can’t live together don’t you think the premise of 47 division proved null in 71 just in less then 25 years



Let us keep in mind the fact there there are more Muslims in India and Bangladesh than there are in Pakistan.


----------



## Dalai Lama

Stop being so insecure about your history + identity and focus on building your country. The cities of Mysore & Bangalore are thriving and part of the reason is that we aren't seeking some false sense of glory from our past.

This is ridiculous. Punjabis aren't some martial race either, 70+ years after independence and you're still buying into & prepetuating that colonial British crap.


----------



## Joe Shearer

VCheng said:


> Let us keep in mind the fact there there are more Muslims in India than there are in Pakistan.



Heh.

I was thinking of that when one of the geniuses said that there were more Pashtun in Pakistan than in Afghanistan.


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## Crixus

Man you hit the nail ... the way west Pakistani treated Bengalis ... I don’t think how differently Tipu Sultan would have been treated due to his skin colour and different language..... they failed to embrace Bengalis and now here they are claiming Tipu Sultan who lived far far away from current Pakistan 

Just curious how different you think Bengalis born in current Pakistan get treated .....


VCheng said:


> Let us keep in mind the fact there there are more Muslims in India and Bangladesh than there are in Pakistan.


----------



## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> Heh.
> 
> I was thinking of that when one of the geniuses said that there were more Pashtun in Pakistan than in Afghanistan.



Obviously, heads we win, and tails you lose. Didn't I warn you earlier that we get to choose, not you, in this flight of fancy. 



Crixus said:


> Man you hit the nail ... the way west Pakistani treated Bengalis ... I don’t think how differently Tipu Sultan would have been treated due to his skin colour and different language..... they failed to embrace Bengalis and now here they are claiming Tipu Sultan who lived far far away from current Pakistan
> 
> Just curious how different you think Bengalis born in current Pakistan get treated .....



You can trust me to say it like it is, and then pay the price for saying it too.

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## Taimur Khurram

Crixus said:


> 1971 proved that even Muslims of South Asia can’t live together



No, it only proved that being Muslim by name isn't enough. You have to identify with the religion above all else, which most Bengalis didn't and still don't.

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## Destranator

Taimur Khurram said:


> No, it only proved that being Muslim by name isn't enough. You have to identify with the religion above all else, which most Bengalis didn't and still don't.


 The delusion wnd hypocrisy never ceases to amaze.

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## Taimur Khurram

Al-Ansar said:


> The delusion wnd hypocrisy never ceases to amaze.



Ok, if you guys are such proud Muslims, why did you target Urdu-speakers? Why did you fight with us just because we didn't Bengali the national language? And are you Bengali, or Muslim first?

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## @@@

Taimur Khurram said:


> Ok, if you guys are such proud Muslims, why did you target Urdu-speakers? Why did you fight with us just because we didn't Bengali the national language? And are you Bengali, or Muslim first?


Bengali are modern-day Nazis, along with their brothers Indians. So racially obsessed it’s sickening. It’s like they live in the Stone Age or something

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## Jackdaws

Taimur Khurram said:


> Pakistan may have come to existence in 1947, but Tipu Sultan's family did originally come from the Punjab, he spoke Urdu, and he was a Muslim. No reason for us to not like him.
> 
> But I don't see why (Kafir) Indians like him. He fought against the Marathas and wasn't exactly nice to you guys:
> 
> Ripaud de Montaudevert, a French soldier who fought for Tipu, in his diary entry of January 14 1799 writes: "I'm disturbed by Tipu Sultan's treatment of these most gentle souls, the Hindus. During the siege of Mangalore, Tipu's soldiers daily exposed the heads of many innocent Brahmins within sight from the fort for the Zamorin and his
> Hindu followers to see."
> 
> https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/the-tyrant-diaries/284803
> 
> 
> 
> It is to be expected that someone like you would oppose the actions of someone whom without, Pakistan would never exist.
> 
> Muhammad Bin Qasim is to Pakistan what Christopher Columbus is to America. Neither were from the land, but both are the reason these respective nations exist today.


Sure. I believe random French soldiers. Urdu is Indian - from Central India. Tipu fought against the British - this was predominantly done by people from present day India while those from present day Pakistan were mostly supporters of the British Raj.

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## Nilgiri

Jackdaws said:


> Sure. I believe random French soldiers. Urdu is Indian - from Central India. Tipu fought against the British - this was predominantly done by people from present day India while those from present day Pakistan were mostly supporters of the British Raj.



Well it (British Raj) was what they preferred over Sikh empire.

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## Jackdaws

Nilgiri said:


> Well it (British Raj) was what they preferred over Sikh empire.


Point is they preferred to be ruled either way.


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## Taimur Khurram

Jackdaws said:


> Urdu is Indian



Lmao you think what people speak these days is Urdu? The Pakistani national anthem is written in pure Urdu, but you guys all think it's Farsi. That's enough to show you how "Indian" Urdu really is.

I'll tell you what. If Urdu is Indian, find me an Indian who reads and writes with this alphabet (other than Muslims):









Jackdaws said:


> Point is they preferred to be ruled either way.



Then why did the Pakistan movement happen you numpty?

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## Jackdaws

Taimur Khurram said:


> Lmao you think what people speak these days is Urdu? The Pakistani national anthem is written in pure Urdu, but you guys all think it's Farsi. That's enough to show you how "Indian" Urdu really is.
> 
> I'll tell you what. If Urdu is Indian, find me an Indian who reads and writes with this alphabet (other than Muslims):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did the Pakistan movement happen you numpty?



Urdu originated in Central India, nothing to do with Pakistan. Just because we use the Latin alphabet, it doesn't mean I can lay claim to being Roman. Using an alphabet is a matter of convenience.

Pakistan movement happened to secure the political rights of subcontinental Muslims. That's why Jinnah and co accepted the Cabinet Mission Plan to be part of the federal structure. Since the arrangement was undemocratic, actual Indian freedom fighters rejected it. I can't keep teaching you history. Read up.

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## AfrazulMandal

Will Pakistan automatically grant dual citizenship to us all?
I don't want to renounce Indian citizenship altogether.



Taimur Khurram said:


> Pakistan may have come to existence in 1947, but Tipu Sultan's family did originally come from the Punjab, he spoke Urdu, and he was a Muslim. No reason for us to not like him.
> 
> But I don't see why (Kafir) Indians like him. He fought against the Marathas and wasn't exactly nice to you guys:
> 
> Ripaud de Montaudevert, a French soldier who fought for Tipu, in his diary entry of January 14 1799 writes: "I'm disturbed by Tipu Sultan's treatment of these most gentle souls, the Hindus. During the siege of Mangalore, Tipu's soldiers daily exposed the heads of many innocent Brahmins within sight from the fort for the Zamorin and his
> Hindu followers to see."
> 
> https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/the-tyrant-diaries/284803
> 
> 
> 
> It is to be expected that someone like you would oppose the actions of someone whom without, Pakistan would never exist.
> 
> Muhammad Bin Qasim is to Pakistan what Christopher Columbus is to America. Neither were from the land, but both are the reason these respective nations exist today.


Hindus like being subservient. A show of strength. Of force. That impresses them.



Taimur Khurram said:


> No, it only proved that being Muslim by name isn't enough. You have to identify with the religion above all else, which most Bengalis didn't and still don't.


Most Bengali Muslims are Muslim only in name.

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## saiyan0321

Joe Shearer said:


> Heh.
> 
> I was thinking of that when one of the geniuses said that there were more Pashtun in Pakistan than in Afghanistan.



Umm Joe.. Tell me something. I keep hearing this that India has more Muslims than pakistan... 

Pakistan is home to 213 million people amongst which 97% are Muslims so above 200 mil are Muslims in pakistan. 
Indian population census of 2011 puts them at 172 million.. 

Now is there a problem with indian census with muslim regions that Indians discount it or is it some unofficial statistic.. sorry for the offtopic but I am just very curious as this is thrown a lot.. 
Although I wouldn't mind becoming second most Muslim population in relation to India if it helps control our ticking time bomb. :p

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## AfrazulMandal

Joe Shearer said:


> Only some fringe element idiots. You remember the discussion on Jinns?


Most hindus believe this.


----------



## cringe master

Dalai Lama said:


> Stop being so insecure about your history + identity and focus on building your country. The cities of Mysore & Bangalore are thriving and part of the reason is that we aren't seeking some false sense of glory from our past.
> 
> This is ridiculous. Punjabis aren't some martial race either, 70+ years after independence and you're still buying into & prepetuating that colonial British crap.


lol you should thank that a punjabi from indus make ganaglanders makes look awesome

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## Sabretooth

Taimur Khurram said:


> Lmao you think what people speak these days is Urdu? The Pakistani national anthem is written in pure Urdu, but you guys all think it's Farsi. That's enough to show you how "Indian" Urdu really is.
> 
> I'll tell you what. If Urdu is Indian, find me an Indian who reads and writes with this alphabet (other than Muslims):



They cannot pronounce even "خ", "ز", "ش" etc. properly but Urdu is Indian. The ultimate joke!

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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> Ok, if you guys are such proud Muslims, why did you target Urdu-speakers? Why did you fight with us just because we didn't Bengali the national language? And are you Bengali, or Muslim first?



How come these good Muslims put Urdu ahead of other Muslims?



saiyan0321 said:


> Umm Joe.. Tell me something. I keep hearing this that India has more Muslims than pakistan...
> 
> Pakistan is home to 213 million people amongst which 97% are Muslims so above 200 mil are Muslims in pakistan.
> Indian population census of 2011 puts them at 172 million..
> 
> Now is there a problem with indian census with muslim regions that Indians discount it or is it some unofficial statistic.. sorry for the offtopic but I am just very curious as this is thrown a lot..
> Although I wouldn't mind becoming second most Muslim population in relation to India if it helps control our ticking time bomb. :p



I'm damned if I know. You're right, it's 172 million in 2011. Somehow, this has become a truism almost, and I have no idea how it started.

PS: The Pakistani population was 173 million in 2011, and the figure of 207 million seems to be the figure for 2013. I wonder if that might account for the discrepancy?

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## saiyan0321

Joe Shearer said:


> I'm damned if I know. You're right, it's 172 million. Somehow, this has become a truism almost, and I have no idea how it started.



Lolzz bunch of people start saying it, media starts saying it and suddenly it goes around like an official statistic.. :p


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## El Sidd

I like how this thread developed. One can feel the Tipu ripping through the Indians

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## Sabretooth

Retired Troll said:


> I like how this thread developed. One can feel the Tipu ripping through the Indians



Tipu Sultan the great! 
Still crushing infidels after a quarter of a millennium, like a boss.

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## El Sidd

Sabretooth said:


> Tipu Sultan the great!
> Still crushing infidels after a quarter of a millennium, like a boss.



Tipu, triggering British slaves for centuries.

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## Jackdaws

Sabretooth said:


> Tipu Sultan the great!
> Still crushing infidels after a quarter of a millennium, like a boss.


Don't think I would call Pakistanis infidels

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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> How come these good Muslims put Urdu ahead of other Muslims?



Because Bengalis, by in large, refused to integrate. The ones that did were treated well, e.g Bogra.



Jackdaws said:


> Urdu originated in Central India



Then prove to me you can read it lol. 



Jackdaws said:


> nothing to do with Pakistan





It's our national language veggie-boy, and has been the lingua franca of Muslims from the sub-continent for centuries. 



Jackdaws said:


> Just because we use the Latin alphabet



You don't, you use squiggles based on Sanskrit. 



Jackdaws said:


> Pakistan movement happened to secure the political rights of subcontinental Muslims.



Agreed. 



Jackdaws said:


> Since the arrangement was undemocratic



Don't care. 



Jackdaws said:


> actual Indian freedom fighters rejected it.



When you say "actual" you mean Kuffar and Munafiqeen, since Muslims can never be real freedom fighters in your eyes, as you've already barked multiple times.


----------



## VCheng

Joe Shearer said:


> How come these good Muslims put Urdu ahead of other Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm damned if I know. You're right, it's 172 million in 2011. Somehow, this has become a truism almost, and I have no idea how it started.
> 
> PS: The Pakistani population was 173 million in 2011, and the figure of 207 million seems to be the figure for 2013. I wonder if that might account for the discrepancy?




The official statistics are lagging for now, that is all.



saiyan0321 said:


> Lolzz bunch of people start saying it, media starts saying it and suddenly it goes around like an official statistic.. :p



Please note the above.


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## AfrazulMandal

saiyan0321 said:


> Umm Joe.. Tell me something. I keep hearing this that India has more Muslims than pakistan...
> 
> Pakistan is home to 213 million people amongst which 97% are Muslims so above 200 mil are Muslims in pakistan.
> Indian population census of 2011 puts them at 172 million..
> 
> Now is there a problem with indian census with muslim regions that Indians discount it or is it some unofficial statistic.. sorry for the offtopic but I am just very curious as this is thrown a lot..
> Although I wouldn't mind becoming second most Muslim population in relation to India if it helps control our ticking time bomb. :p


India will be having a Muslim majority soon.
Don't be fooled by the 78pc hindus statistics.

IMO, the hindu population is about 60 to 65 pc. But this includes atheists and non practising hindus which should be at least half of the whole.

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## saiyan0321

VCheng said:


> The official statistics are lagging for now, that is all.
> 
> 
> 
> Please note the above.



Hmm the census was conducted in 2011 so let's wait till 2021 for it be official. 

Frankly I don't care.. We have a massive population issue and I support population control in Pakistan and if it makes us the third largest Muslim nation ( Indonesia being 1 and India being 2) then I am perfectly fine and okay with that.



AfrazulMandal said:


> India will be having a Muslim majority soon.
> Don't be fooled by the 78pc hindus statistics.
> 
> IMO, the hindu population is about 60 to 65 pc. But this includes atheists and non practising hindus which should be at least half of the whole.



Cool....


----------



## VCheng

saiyan0321 said:


> Hmm the census was conducted in 2011 so let's wait till 2021 for it be official.
> 
> Frankly I don't care.. We have a massive population issue and I support population control in Pakistan and if it makes us the third largest Muslim nation ( Indonesia being 1 and India being 2) then I am perfectly fine and okay with that.



I don't care either, but it shows that any claims made on such matters cut both ways logically, that is all.


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## saiyan0321

VCheng said:


> I don't care either, but it shows that any claims made on such matters cut both ways logically, that is all.



That is all then.


----------



## VCheng

saiyan0321 said:


> That is all then.



Of course. Pakistan as the home for Muslims in South Asia may have been true once upon a time, but in the present day and age such a claim may no longer hold true, demographically speaking.


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## saiyan0321

VCheng said:


> Of course. Pakistan as the home for Muslims in South Asia may have been true once upon a time, but in the present day and age such a claim may no longer hold true, demographically speaking.



Does it matter now. Pakistan is home for Pakistanis and the state is responsible for the welfare of Pakistanis and pakistanis are responsible to be law abiding citizens of the said state.. There is a critical population awareness in pakistan. We are not in some race.. Other Muslims of south Asia have their own States and their responsibility is to their state and their state's responsibility is to them


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## VCheng

saiyan0321 said:


> Does it matter now. Pakistan is home for Pakistanis and the state is responsible for the welfare of Pakistanis and pakistanis are responsible to be law abiding citizens of the said state.. There is a critical population awareness in pakistan. We are not in some race.. Other Muslims of south Asia have their own States and their responsibility is to their state and their state's responsibility is to them



It really does not matter now, but for those stuck in the past it is still a huge issue.

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## saiyan0321

VCheng said:


> It really does not matter now, but for those stuck in the past it is still a huge issue.



Those that are stuck into the past need to come to the present and work on the future.. The past is gone. The present is here and the future is coming.

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## VCheng

saiyan0321 said:


> Those that are stuck into the past need to come to the present and work on the future.. The past is gone. The present is here and the future is coming.



Very true, but please keep in mind the role the past still plays in creating, and maintaining the preferred national narrative.

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## saiyan0321

VCheng said:


> Very true, but please keep in mind the role the past still plays in creating, and maintaining the preferred national narrative.



Indeed but nations evolve and states evolve.. Slowly we are also evolving....


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## VCheng

saiyan0321 said:


> Indeed but nations evolve and states evolve.. Slowly we are also evolving....



So goes the claim, but frankly, evidence to support such an evolution is pretty thin at the moment.


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## saiyan0321

VCheng said:


> So goes the claim, but frankly, evidence to support such an evolution is pretty thin at the moment.



Things can look bleak but there are positives.


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## Buddhistforlife

Retired Troll said:


> Tipu Sultan was a Pakistani. Ideological and spiritual Pakistani


Why should Muslims be considered as a hero in India? Tipu Sultan may be a hero in Pakistan but not in hindu India.

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## AsianLion

And Tipu Sultan being having ancestors Pakistani, also were Shias.


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## VCheng

saiyan0321 said:


> Things can look bleak but there are positives.



Yes, I can accept that as a hope. But reality will force changes whether willingly or unwillingly.

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## El Sidd

Buddhistforlife said:


> Why should Muslims be considered as a hero in India? Tipu Sultan may be a hero in Pakistan but not in hindu India.



But India is secular


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## Joe Shearer

AfrazulMandal said:


> India will be having a Muslim majority soon.
> Don't be fooled by the 78pc hindus statistics.
> 
> IMO, the hindu population is about 60 to 65 pc. But this includes atheists and non practising hindus which should be at least half of the whole.



Well, that is not, I think, a very reasonable estimate; perhaps about 15 to 20% would be better. But you are right in other ways: the Hindu bloc covers many who have been co-opted, totally without their own wishes being consulted, such as the Dalit and the tribals.

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## Jackdaws

Taimur Khurram said:


> Because Bengalis, by in large, refused to integrate. The ones that did were treated well, e.g Bogra.
> 
> 
> 
> Then prove to me you can read it lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's our national language veggie-boy, and has been the lingua franca of Muslims from the sub-continent for centuries.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't, you use squiggles based on Sanskrit.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't care.
> 
> 
> 
> When you say "actual" you mean Kuffar and Munafiqeen, since Muslims can never be real freedom fighters in your eyes, as you've already barked multiple times.


Of course they can be. Like Bharat Ratna Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan. Whom if I am not mistaken was jailed not just by the British but also by the Pakistanis.
Maulana Azad. Asfaqulla Khan. Major General Shah Nawaz Khan. 

People who actually fought the British rather than accept British rule. But again, if you haven't read history, it's not my fault. 

Lol. You do realize we are using the Latin alphabet here. 

You should speak some language which is Pakistani and be proud of it like Brahui. It's fine if you are using an Indian language too - you are welcome.

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## Joe Shearer

Retired Troll said:


> I like how this thread developed. One can feel the Tipu ripping through the Indians



Just go and sit on the pot. It will help your digestion and your temper.

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## El Sidd

Joe Shearer said:


> Just go and sit on the pot. It will help your digestion and your temper.



You guys just cannot think past fecal matter? 
Or is it a go to reaction everytime Tiger of Mysore in mentioned in your ranks?


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## Joe Shearer

Retired Troll said:


> You guys just cannot think past fecal matter?
> Or is it a go to reaction everytime Tiger of Mysore in mentioned in your ranks?



It occurs when you enter the conversation. Your humour is quite shitty, to be honest, although it seems to have a fan following of its own.


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## El Sidd

Joe Shearer said:


> It occurs when you enter the conversation. Your humour is quite shitty, to be honest, although it seems to have a fan following of its own.



That does not explain why the Sultan of Mysore is a forgotten story in India. I remember last year it took a statement from Pakistan praising the Sultan to cause multiple mobs in India.


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## Joe Shearer

Retired Troll said:


> That does not explain why the Sultan of Mysore is a forgotten story in India. I remember last year it took a statement from Pakistan praising the Sultan to cause multiple mobs in India.



He is far from being a forgotten story. One of the prominent candidates in an election long gone by campaigned on the sole plank of having retrieved the hero's sword from the looted remnants of that last battle in the breach of the wall of Seringapatnam. He won by a landslide, without delivering a single speech.

In the last ten years, the most amazing phenomenon I have witnessed has been the ability of gullible Pakistanis to manufacture a story on their own, out of whole cloth, hypnotise themselves into forgetting that they had just then invented it, and then waging holy war to defend its eternal truth. About two-thirds of the crowd do that, all the time, including right now in the present. Look around you. The others are embarrassed, shame-faced and apologetic when the jumping up and down and throwing of poo at the enemy is going on; unfortunately, since we have a considerable stock of chimpanzees of our own, we find ourselves begging them to offer us some sympathy. Our idiots, we both sides think, are bigger idiots than your idiots. Both are right, of course.

When given half a chance, very decent discussions ensue. Decent discussions might also be possible on sensitive subjects like military history, especially military history of India-Pakistan encounters. There is a shining example of a decent discussion right in front of you. At the end of the day, some of you are incapable of responding to such opportunities; you lack the emotional capacity, the rational capacity, and the ability to see both sides to a question.

Don't for a moment think you are admired, or grudgingly respected, or feared. The brutal reality, real for both sides, is quite different. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

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## Taimur Khurram

Jackdaws said:


> Of course they can be. Like Bharat Ratna Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan. Whom if I am not mistaken was jailed not just by the British but also by the Pakistanis.
> Maulana Azad. Asfaqulla Khan. Major General Shah Nawaz Khan.



You're only proving my point. In your eyes, only India-lovers are real freedom fighters.



Jackdaws said:


> Lol. You do realize we are using the Latin alphabet here.



Lol. You do realise we don't use the Latin alphabet for our languages right? 



Jackdaws said:


> It's fine if you are using an Indian language too



You can't even read it and you're still barking about it being Indian lol. 

I doubt you can even understand the Pakistani national anthem. 



Jackdaws said:


> You should speak some language which is Pakistani and be proud of it like Brahui.



You should speak some language which is Hindu and be proud of it like Tamil.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> You're only proving my point. In your eyes, only India-lovers are real freedom fighters.



And whom did you have in mind otherwise?



> Lol. You do realise we don't use the Latin alphabet for our languages right?



Actually, LOL, neither do Indians.



> You can't even read it and you're still barking about it being Indian lol.



What is the connection? Have you seen an Indian currency note? Do you think every Indian can read every one of the different languages in which the denomination is expressed? 

Tell me, what do you do to communicate with people besides acting like an English football fan?



> I doubt you can even understand the Pakistani national anthem.



And you think that is a requirement to make a logical point on its own? Can you hear yourself?



> You should speak some language which is Hindu and be proud of it like Tamil.



These are the moments when I stop feeling irritated and just feel sorry for you.

No language has a religion.

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## El Sidd

Joe Shearer said:


> He is far from being a forgotten story. One of the prominent candidates in an election long gone by campaigned on the sole plank of having retrieved the hero's sword from the looted remnants of that last battle in the breach of the wall of Seringapatnam. He won by a landslide, without delivering a single speech.
> 
> In the last ten years, the most amazing phenomenon I have witnessed has been the ability of gullible Pakistanis to manufacture a story on their own, out of whole cloth, hypnotise themselves into forgetting that they had just then invented it, and then waging holy war to defend its eternal truth. About two-thirds of the crowd do that, all the time, including right now in the present. Look around you. The others are embarrassed, shame-faced and apologetic when the jumping up and down and throwing of poo at the enemy is going on; unfortunately, since we have a considerable stock of chimpanzees of our own, we find ourselves begging them to offer us some sympathy. Our idiots, we both sides think, are bigger idiots than your idiots. Both are right, of course.
> 
> When given half a chance, very decent discussions ensue. Decent discussions might also be possible on sensitive subjects like military history, especially military history of India-Pakistan encounters. There is a shining example right in front of you. At the end of the day, some of you are incapable of responding to such opportunities; you lack the emotional capacity, the rational capacity, and the ability to see both sides to a question.
> 
> Don't for a moment think you are admired, or grudgingly respected, or feared. The brutal reality, real for both sides, is quite different. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.



So democracy is just basically a relic now in India? 

All that has happened in the last 10 years is Pakistanis are now more keen on current affairs than before. Unfortunately it has coincided with the rise of democratic fascism in India. Just because Tipu Sultan is seen as a hero of self determination from the Raj does not mean Pakistanis are playing some sinister game with you. Tipu Sultan has not gain popularity in Pakistan, his has remain the same while in India he is now controversial figure who massacred a minority and abysmal religious rights record. 

Lately everyone seems to be part of the problem for you. Is this a survival technique you are applying to ride the storm or the situation is that bad as we approach the general elections?


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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> Actually, LOL, neither do Indians.



When I said "we" I meant both Pakistanis and Indians. 



Joe Shearer said:


> What is the connection? Have you seen an Indian currency note?



AFAIK none of you (other than some Muslims) use Perso-Arabic. 



Joe Shearer said:


> No language has a religion.



No language has a nationality either.



Joe Shearer said:


> And you think that is a requirement to make a logical point on its own?



If Urdu is Indian, then Indians should be able to understand it.


----------



## Jackdaws

Taimur Khurram said:


> When I said "we" I meant both Pakistanis and Indians.
> 
> 
> 
> AFAIK none of you (other than some Muslims) use Perso-Arabic.
> 
> 
> 
> No language has a nationality either.
> 
> 
> 
> If Urdu is Indian, then Indians should be able to understand it.



So you understand and speak Brahui?



Taimur Khurram said:


> You're only proving my point. In your eyes, only India-lovers are real freedom fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. You do realise we don't use the Latin alphabet for our languages right?
> 
> 
> 
> You can't even read it and you're still barking about it being Indian lol.
> 
> I doubt you can even understand the Pakistani national anthem.
> 
> 
> 
> You should speak some language which is Hindu and be proud of it like Tamil.



Nah, I have a very simple criteria. To be called a "freedom fighter" - you need to have violently or non violently opposed the British Rule of Indian subcontinent.


British lackeys who licked British boots don't qualify. This includes a lot of Hindu Maharajas too - so it is not religion specific. But yea, your "heroes" were British lackeys. That's just a matter of fact.

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## Taimur Khurram

Jackdaws said:


> So you understand and speak Brahui?



Do you understand and speak Tamil? 



Jackdaws said:


> To be called a "freedom fighter" - you need to have violently or non violently opposed the British Rule of Indian suncontinent.



That's not the only part of your criteria. If it was, you'd appreciate examples like Ahmed Khan Karral or Dr Muhammad Iqbal Shedai. But you don't. You only care about people who fought for a United Hind and consider everyone else to be a British stooge. 

And no, it's not just restricted to British rule. Anyone who fought for their people to give them freedom is a freedom fighter. That includes Jinnah, Rehmat Ali, Syed Ahmed Khan and others. Just because they considered YOU their enemy more than the British doesn't mean they didn't fight for the freedom of Muslims from British India. They did, without them, we'd be a part of India. Ew. 

And I gave you multiple examples that fit your criteria anyway, but you acted as if they were somehow insignificant just because you've never heard of them.



Jackdaws said:


> But yea, your "heroes" were British lackeys.



And your "heroes" walked around half naked, starved themselves, and had their dream of a United Hind permanently shattered. They failed. 

Jinnah and co, on the other hand, gave us Pakistan. Mission accomplished.


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## Dalai Lama

Muslimrenaissance said:


> lol you should thank that a punjabi from indus make ganaglanders makes look awesome



Nope, hardworking Indians make India look good. Not one city in Pakistan holds a candle to Bangalore/Mysore. Tipu was a dark skinned southerner, regardless of his faith. Pakistanis are wannabe Arabs/Iranians/Turks. Tipu fought against the British. Pakistanis (mostly Punjabis) fought for the British because they bought into the martial race theory.

Pakistanis were class A British slaves.

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## Jackdaws

Taimur Khurram said:


> Do you understand and speak Tamil?
> 
> 
> 
> That's not the only part of your criteria. If it was, you'd appreciate examples like Ahmed Khan Karral or Dr Muhammad Iqbal Shedai. But you don't. You only care about people who fought for a United Hind and consider everyone else to be a British stooge.
> 
> And no, it's not just restricted to British rule. Anyone who fought for their people to give them freedom is a freedom fighter. That includes Jinnah, Rehmat Ali, Syed Ahmed Khan and others. Just because they considered YOU their enemy more than the British doesn't mean they didn't fight for the freedom of Muslims from British India. They did, without them, we'd be a part of India. Ew.
> 
> And I gave you multiple examples that fit your criteria anyway, but you acted as if they were somehow insignificant just because you've never heard of them.
> 
> 
> 
> And your "heroes" walked around half naked, starved themselves, and had their dream of a United Hind permanently shattered. They failed.
> 
> Jinnah and co, on the other hand, gave us Pakistan. Mission accomplished.


Lol, first up thanks for proving my point. I don't speak Tamil or Urdu. I don't have to speak either for them to be Indian languages. Do you think all Brits speak Welsh?

Do you speak Brahui? 

Secondly, you fight for freedom against ahem - the colonizers. That's the only criteria really. And no, British apologists and boot lickers don't qualify. 

Lol, my heroes spent time in jail. They were hanged. They killed the British. Yours spent their time licking British boots even if they wore 3 piece suits. That's the difference.

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## Joe Shearer

Retired Troll said:


> So democracy is just basically a relic now in India?



Since you know little or nothing about democracy, you are to be pitied for making fatuous remarks; the recent thumping defeat of the right-wing idiots should have spoken to those who have a clue about democracy. To the rest of you, it is a wall of noise.



> All that has happened in the last 10 years is Pakistanis are now more keen on current affairs than before.



Good for you! Rejoin the rest of the world.



> Unfortunately it has coincided with the rise of democratic fascism in India.



Unfortunately I have to deal with the most excruciatingly inept analyses possible. Please do not use the self-contradictory phrase 'democratic fascism'; it vies for space in the largely uninhabited minds of the sorts that we encounter with 'wet fire' and 'dry water'. 



> Just because Tipu Sultan is seen as a hero of self determination from the Raj does not mean Pakistanis are playing some sinister game with you.



Nobody thought so. Check for yourself. The astonishment were due to your ability to create Heath Robinsonian links between a random Indian character and the history and historical legacy of your country.



> Tipu Sultan has not gain popularity in Pakistan, his has remain the same while in India he is now controversial figure who massacred a minority and abysmal religious rights record.



Yes.

There were straws in the wind regarding the possibility of an incoming government being fascistic, in its behaviour, in its outlook, in its views about prominent personalities past and present. Unfortunately, these fears came true. The new government, and the fringe elements of Indian society that it controls, has shown itself remarkably regressive in every aspect. That is why Tipu has had a bad press in recent months, and for no other reason. The change can be linked directly to the views of the coterie in administration and has nothing to do with the permanent position of Tipu in history.

Incidentally, nobody accuses him of massacring a minority. 



> Lately everyone seems to be part of the problem for you. Is this a survival technique you are applying to ride the storm or the situation is that bad as we approach the general elections?



Maybe that is your perception. It is not clear what might have given you that overexcited view.



Taimur Khurram said:


> When I said "we" I meant both Pakistanis and Indians.



It is remarkable what clarity hindsight brings.



> AFAIK none of you (other than some Muslims) use Perso-Arabic.



As far as I know, it is not laid down anywhere that everyone must use every language and every script that is in use in his or her country. Do you not find that an absurd proposition? There are over twenty languages and scripts on those notes. Do you understand dimly at least how diverse a country India is?



> No language has a nationality either.



Nor an origin? 



> If Urdu is Indian, then Indians should be able to understand it.



They do. It is just that you seem to be arguing that all Indians need to understand all languages used by all other Indians, and also be able to read and write the different scripts in use. 

If you would pause to think for a minute, it is possible that you might see the absurdity of that position and abandon it. Others can only draw your attention to its comic elements.


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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Dalai Lama said:


> Nope, hardworking Indians make India look good. Not one city in Pakistan holds a candle to Bangalore/Mysore. Tipu was a dark skinned southerner, regardless of his faith. Pakistanis are wannabe Arabs/Iranians/Turks. Tipu fought against the British. Pakistanis (mostly Punjabis) fought for the British because they bought into the martial race theory.
> 
> Pakistanis were class A British slaves.


Correctly said! Many punjabis both Indian and Pakistani will be reluctant to admit that... 
Punjabis were though just foot soldiers and nothing else and today when the empire is gone the void still exists and keeps on sucking on unsuspecting generations into its fold not realizing that it were their own ancestors that perhaps then thought the empire will last forever just like today they think these artificial lines in the sand will exist for eternity.

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## cringe master

Dalai Lama said:


> Nope, hardworking Indians make India look good. Not one city in Pakistan holds a candle to Bangalore/Mysore. Tipu was a dark skinned southerner, regardless of his faith. Pakistanis are wannabe Arabs/Iranians/Turks. Tipu fought against the British. Pakistanis (mostly Punjabis) fought for the British because they bought into the martial race theory.
> 
> Pakistanis were class A British slaves.



i hate people who don't do research before opening their mouth , tipu grandfather was punjabi and married to local woman
you are just jealous that no pure ganglander can make tipu sutlan , it have to be superior indus genes to make it 

most martial were your bortherian sikh punjabi, many muslim punjbi were declared criminals by British

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## @@@

Muslimrenaissance said:


> i hate people who don't do research before opening their mouth , tipu grandfather was punjabi and married to local woman
> you are just jealous that no pure ganglander can make tipu sutlan , it have to be superior indus genes to make it
> 
> most martial were your bortherian sikh punjabi, many muslim punjbi were declared criminals by British


The fact is that Tipu Sultan would slaughter Modi with his very own hands if he were alive today.


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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> Nor an origin?



Not with a language like Urdu, whose script is Perso-Arabic, grammar is based on Prakits, name is based on Turkic, and vocabulary is a mix of multiple languages. 



Joe Shearer said:


> They do.



No, you don't. Most of you cannot understand pure Urdu.


----------



## El Sidd

Joe Shearer said:


> Since you know little or nothing about democracy, you are to be pitied for making fatuous remarks; the recent thumping defeat of the right-wing idiots should have spoken to those who have a clue about democracy. To the rest of you, it is a wall of noise.



So everyone in Pakistan who does not share your secular Vision has No clue about democracy? Interesting opinion 



Joe Shearer said:


> Unfortunately I have to deal with the most excruciatingly inept analyses possible. Please do not use the self-contradictory phrase 'democratic fascism'; it vies for space in the largely uninhabited minds of the sorts that we encounter with 'wet fire' and 'dry water'.



Self praise wont get you farther than this i believe 


Joe Shearer said:


> Incidentally, nobody accuses him of massacring a minority.



This is a blatant lie


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Jackdaws said:


> Secondly, you fight for freedom against ahem - the colonizers.



We fought against both you and the British, primarily the former. If that makes you cry, tough, but that doesn't mean we didn't work to get Pakistan.



Jackdaws said:


> Lol, my heroes spent time in jail. They were hanged.



A few things:

1. Irrelevant, just because a lot of mine were smart enough to avoid such things doesn't mean they were any lesser. A living hero is better than a dead one, the latter can't do a thing when he dies.

2. For the gazillionth time, I already named you multiple people who died for our cause.

3. We view you as our enemy much more than the British, but Jinnah still spoke about making Pakistan free from the British (then again, I doubt you've ever listened to his speeches).

Anyway, the big difference between Pakistani activists and Unified Hind ones is that the former could speak English and dressed like true gentleman, whereas yours look like beggars, were racists, couldn't speak English, got most of themselves killed/jailed (what good is that to your cause), etc. And ultimately, mine succeeded but yours failed (British India will never be united again).


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## Jackdaws

Taimur Khurram said:


> We fought against both you and the British, primarily the former. If that makes you cry, tough, but that doesn't mean we didn't work to get Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> A few things:
> 
> 1. Irrelevant, just because a lot of mine were smart enough to avoid such things doesn't mean they were any lesser. A living hero is better than a dead one, the latter can't do a thing when he dies.
> 
> 2. For the gazillionth time, I already named you multiple people who died for our cause.
> 
> 3. We view you as our enemy much more than the British, but Jinnah still spoke about making Pakistan free from the British (then again, I doubt you've ever listened to his speeches).
> 
> Anyway, the big difference between Pakistani activists and Unified Hind ones is that the former could speak English and dressed like true gentleman, whereas yours look like beggars, were racists, couldn't speak English, got most of themselves killed/jailed (what good is that to your cause), etc. And ultimately, mine succeeded but yours failed (British India will never be united again).


Lol. 
But do you speak Brahui? 

Freedom fighters fight colonizers. If you fought us, that's a civil war not a fight for freedom.

Nope, the fact that they were apologists for the British and licked their feet and boots showed they were a bunch of losers.

And again, giving you a crash course in history. Your opportunist and British boot licking heroes agreed to a United India under the Cabinet Mission Plan. It was the actual freedom fighters who rejected it. So your heroes' dream of Pakistan was apparently negotiable and saleable for the right price. But the price of a freedom and a democratic secular nation wasn't negotiable for our heroes.


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Jackdaws said:


> Freedom fighters fight colonizers.



Freedom fighters fight for their freedom. Their enemies can be anyone who is viewed as the "other". You qualify. 



Jackdaws said:


> they were a bunch of losers.



Keep crying, they won in the end. 



Jackdaws said:


> And again, giving you a crash course in history.



Bharti trying to teach someone about history. Now I've heard it all.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> Not with a language like Urdu, whose script is Perso-Arabic, grammar is based on Prakits, name is based on Turkic, and vocabulary is a mix of multiple languages.



Ah, so now the truth, as it is according to the great logician @Taimur Khurram, emerges!

Urdu originated in the air. Or it originated in Persia and in Arabia, and it crashed into India full-fledged, clad in armour and riding a white horse, ready to fight the good fight.

There are four kinds of people:

Those who are knowledgeable, and know that they are knowledgeable;
Those who are knowledgeable, but do not know that they are knowledgeable;
Those who are ignorant, but refuse to admit that they are ignorant;
Those who are ignorant, and know that they are ignorant.
It is impossible to help one of these four, and you fit that very nicely.



> No, you don't. Most of you cannot understand pure Urdu.



MOST of us don't have to, any more than you have to understand Dogri, or Maithil, or Bengali, or Malayalam. Those who do speak Urdu speak it better than you do. Don't go by the limited representation of Indians that you meet on PDF; not every community, every language is represented here. Only those with the strong nerves to go through the daily dose of drama, imperfect understanding, uncertain facts, disastrous logic and the constant strident tones of the less evolved specimens that we seek to deal with and to communicate with.



Retired Troll said:


> So everyone in Pakistan who does not share your secular Vision has No clue about democracy? Interesting opinion



It's as good a vision as any other. Certainly better than the uninformed meanderings of those who have never had an opportunity to practise it.



> Self praise wont get you farther than this i believe



Look at the panel to the left, and we can take care of that sneer in an instant. 



> This is a blatant lie



Would you understand, with your totally uncertain grip on the tongue that you have chosen to use, what is the meaning of the word minority?

It is for your superficiality and your overwhelming and wholly unfounded impression of your superiority, with which you have impressed some kids, that you are one of the most pitiable of the members.

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## Jackdaws

Taimur Khurram said:


> Freedom fighters fight for their freedom. Their enemies can be anyone who is viewed as the "other". You qualify.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep crying, they won in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> Bharti trying to teach someone about history. Now I've heard it all.


Hahahhaha. No retort I see.


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## El Sidd

Joe Shearer said:


> Would you understand, with your totally uncertain grip on the tongue that you have chosen to use, what is the meaning of the word minority?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captivity_of_Kodavas_at_Seringapatam




Joe Shearer said:


> It's as good a vision as any other. Certainly better than the uninformed meanderings of those who have never had an opportunity to practise it.



How do you think it is a vision better than the other perceived visions you are so paranoid about.


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## Joe Shearer

Retired Troll said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captivity_of_Kodavas_at_Seringapatam



You don't get it, do you, genius? Until it is hammered into your head with a hammer and with nails? Hindus can't be a minority in India - the old one or the new.



> How do you think it is a vision better than the other perceived visions you are so paranoid about.



As it happens, I am not paranoid about any vision whatsoever.

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## El Sidd

Joe Shearer said:


> You don't get it, do you, genius? Until it is hammered into your head with a hammer and with nails? Hindus can't be a minority in India - the old one or the new.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captivity_of_Mangalorean_Catholics_at_Seringapatam


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## Taimur Khurram

Jackdaws said:


> Hahahhaha. No retort I see.



You're not worthy of one, and it would go over your head just like everything else I say.


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## Jackdaws

Taimur Khurram said:


> You're not worthy of one, and it would go over your head just like everything else I say.


Lol. Sure. The grapes are sour.


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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> Urdu originated in the air. Or it originated in Persia and in Arabia, and it crashed into India full-fledged, clad in armour and riding a white horse, ready to fight the good fight.
> 
> There are four kinds of people:
> 
> Those who are knowledgeable, and know that they are knowledgeable;
> Those who are knowledgeable, but do not know that they are knowledgeable;
> Those who are ignorant, but refuse to admit that they are ignorant;
> Those who are ignorant, and know that they are ignorant.
> It is impossible to help one of these four, and you fit that very nicely.



You can keep up your ad hominem attacks, but that won't change a thing. Urdu is not Indian. The language is a mix of many others. 



Joe Shearer said:


> MOST of us don't have to



If you want to call it Indian you do.


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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> You can keep up your ad hominem attacks, but that won't change a thing. Urdu is not Indian. The language is a mix of many others.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to call it Indian you do.



It's not ad hominem that is my characteristic. It is lack of accuracy and lack of knowledge. 

Please do yourself a favour; go through my posts. If you can find an instance where I have NOT used logic and reason, and instead, without any of those, I have simply made a personal attack, point it out. This is a public forum; show me that example, in public, in front of everybody.

I can't stand vapouring endlessly without the fundamental knowledge to back it up. It is that failing that irritates me and brings out the demanding teacher who handed out A's, even an A-, only after very careful consideration and in a small, very small number of cases.

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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> It's not ad hominem that is my characteristic.



Your characteristic is to just be rude. Plain and simple. After seeing you active on this forum for the past few years I've come to realise that.

You might be smart (at times), but you're still rude. You could say the same about me, but I'm willing to admit that. 



Joe Shearer said:


> If you can find an instance where I have NOT used logic and reason, and instead, without any of those, I have simply made a personal attack, point it out.



It's the fact that you use the two alongside each other and that your use of logic and reason is (in my opinion) sometimes rather flimsy.


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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> Your characteristic is to just be rude. Plain and simple. After seeing you active on this forum for the past few years I've come to realise that.
> 
> You might be smart (at times), but you're still rude. You could say the same about me, but I'm willing to admit that.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the fact that you use the two alongside each other and that your use of logic and reason is (in my opinion) sometimes rather flimsy.



LOL (unless you consider that amused laugh to be rude). 

18,830 posts and you can't give me an example to regret? Are you shitting me?

Fair enough; let us have it your way.

Which of my posts are logical and reasonable and also rude personally wounding?
Where did you find my use of logic and reason, in your opinion, rather flimsy? Would you agree if I asked a Pakistani member to judge them for solidity or for flimsiness?

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## Taimur Khurram

Joe Shearer said:


> 18,830 posts and you can't give me an example to regret? Are you shitting me?



It's not my job to filter through your posts, anyone who doesn't believe me can do that themselves or simply look at the thread.


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## Joe Shearer

Taimur Khurram said:


> It's not my job to filter through your posts, anyone who doesn't believe me can do that themselves or simply look at the thread.



Do you think this last exchange does not speak for itself? Have some shame, and have respect for the truth.

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## Nilgiri

Retired Troll said:


> This is a blatant lie



Have you done enough cherry picking or is there more?


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## El Sidd

Nilgiri said:


> Have you done enough cherry picking or is there more?



So what is good for the goose is not good for the geese?


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## DarkPrince

Starlord said:


> Tipu is as much Pakistani as I am African as first Homosepian first pop up in Africa .


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## Nilgiri

Retired Troll said:


> So what is good for the goose is not good for the geese?



Simba, you have forgotten who you ARE...and so you have forgotten ME. 

Look inside yourself, Simba. You are more than what you have become. 

Remembeeeeerrrrrrr............


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## El Sidd

He would have totally rocketed all politicians out of Pakistan for good.

I guess its fake news


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## KhanBaba2

Brass Knuckles said:


> I have read at this forum he was jappa. Jappas are from chiniot



You will read a lot of things on this forum.


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## bluesky

*"tipu sultan ancestors were pakistani"*

There was no such country called Pakistan when Tipu was ruling Deccan and fighting the English. Rather, it was the Punjab Regiment under the British of which you take pride was behind his demise.


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