# IMPLEMENT system of ALLAH



## 1 ummah



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## AUz

What exactly you want to say?

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## Leader

AUz said:


> What exactly you want to say?


 
bring hizbul tehrer into power


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## khurasaan1

We will implement the islamic law into Pakistan ..but not the law brought by Hizb-ut-Tehrir..cuz behind back of it is British MI6...yea...we already know that game as well....

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Leader said:


> bring hizbul tehrer into power


 
nope... rather bring about the Caliphate...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> We will implement the islamic law into Pakistan ..but not the law brought by Hizb-ut-Tehrir..cuz behind back of it is British MI6...yea...we already know that game as well....


 
Do you have any evidence of this?

Do you realize accusing someone of such thing is considered Buhtan and you know what the punishment of Buhtan is under Islam?

You sound like a supporter of Zaid Hamid... ?? From amongst the ill mannered group of Takmeel e Pakistan.. ??


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## Leader

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> nope... rather bring about the Caliphate...


 
tell you something, this paper organization from where ever it gets fund is never going to succeed. its leadership has no vision, its members got nothing to offer to masses... I would prefer to stick with Dr Israr's vision of Khilafat then to some foreign organization...

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## 1 ummah

i dont wont 2 defend H.T in front of ignorants,but may ALLAH gives hadaya to who ever He wishes.H.T is more practical then any-other group, more organised,international( workin in 40+ countries),it is sincere political party, that is y u hear propaganda abt it, UR VIEWS WILL CHANGE (if u r sincere,n not propaganda propagators) if u discus it with us n study details abt H.Ts method n adoptions etc 

sincere muslims!
Islam is the system Muslims r obliged to implement,the msg is clear! get out n reject current system,work 4 khilafat


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## Leader

1 ummah said:


> i dont wont 2 defend H.T in front of ignorants,but may ALLAH gives hadaya to who ever He wishes.H.T is more practical then any-other group, more organised,international( workin in 40+ countries),it is sincere political party, that is y u hear propaganda abt it, UR VIEWS WILL CHANGE (if u r sincere,n not propaganda propagators) if u discus it with us n study details abt H.Ts method n adoptions etc
> 
> sincere muslims!
> Islam is the system Muslims r obliged to implement,the msg is clear! get out n reject current system,work 4 khilafat


 
slogans wont work, cannot rule out the majority's opinion by declaring them ignorants, if you have enough of a theoretical framework done, bring it in front of public for a test !!

---------- Post added at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 AM ----------

show me its charter !


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## 1 ummah

Leader said:


> tell you something, this paper organization from where ever it gets fund is never going to succeed. its leadership has no vision, its members got nothing to offer to masses... I would prefer to stick with Dr Israr's vision of Khilafat then to some foreign organization...


 
thats may b coz u follow nationalism ,brother Muslims r 1 UMMAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! H.T wants to bring khilafa not in 1 country but Rejoin muslim lands into 1 Islamic state, n spread it to rest of the world(this is sunnah)


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Leader said:


> tell you something, this paper organization from where ever it gets fund is never going to succeed. its leadership has no vision, its members got nothing to offer to masses... I would prefer to stick with Dr Israr's vision of Khilafat then to some foreign organization...


 
It would seem to me that you have yet to meet any of their members...

If this Ummah can be led out of its misery by anyone... it is the people who associate themselves with Hizb ut Tahrir (the liberation party)... trust me... I have seen a lot and been around almost each and every group and political party you can imagine (both Secular and Islamic)... and some that you cant even imagine )

Dr Israr may God be pleased with him led an educational organization and had little to do with politics... furthermore his work does not offer the clarity about the Caliphate that is provided by HuT in their work... This is acknowledged even by top members of Tanzeem... 

@ 1 ummah... Are you in Lahore? Have you seen the exhibition HuT is organizing?

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Leader said:


> slogans wont work, cannot rule out the majority's opinion by declaring them ignorants, if you have enough of a theoretical framework done, bring it in front of public for a test !!
> 
> ---------- Post added at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 AM ----------
> 
> show me its charter !



I have posted numerous books and material by this organization on this very forum my friend... There is nothing to hide regarding their charter... This is why they upset a lot of the enemies outside and amongst ourselves, because the roadmap is there for everyone to see... You should google this... Manifesto of Hizb ut Tahrir for Pakistan... you ll see what I m talking about...


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## Leader

1 ummah said:


> thats may b coz u follow nationalism ,brother Muslims r 1 UMMAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! H.T wants to bring khilafa not in 1 country but Rejoin muslim lands into 1 Islamic state, n spread it to rest of the world(this is sunnah)


 
fair enough, was that the answer? apna gher thek nahi hai, duniya ko sudharnay chalay ho...


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## 1 ummah

Leader said:


> slogans wont work, cannot rule out the majority's opinion by declaring them ignorants, if you have enough of a theoretical framework done, bring it in front of public for a test !!
> 
> ---------- Post added at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 AM ----------
> 
> show me its charter !


 
56% want khilafa..who is majority?? n u want H.T chartered by whom?? UN ?? the book n sunnah r NOT enough???????

i invite u,come n talk face to face!


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## Leader

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> It would seem to me that you have yet to meet any of their members...
> 
> If this Ummah can be led out of its misery by anyone... it is the people who associate themselves with Hizb ut Tahrir (the liberation party)... trust me... I have seen a lot and been around almost each and every group and political party you can imagine (both Secular and Islamic)... and some that you cant even imagine )
> 
> Dr Israr may God be pleased with him led an educational organization and had little to do with politics... furthermore his work does not offer the clarity about the Caliphate that is provided by HuT in their work... This is acknowledged even by top members of Tanzeem...
> 
> @ 1 ummah... Are you in Lahore? Have you seen the exhibition HuT is organizing?


 
nothing to comment...


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## 1 ummah

Leader said:


> fair enough, was that the answer? apna gher thek nahi hai, duniya ko sudharnay chalay ho...


 
APNA GHR??? Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq...... r not our?????
the prophet said muslims r like a body!!!! koi apki tang tor raha hai,koi hath kaat raha ho...to ap ko kiya hr hissay ki takleef,fikr nai ho gi?????


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## 1 ummah

@ 1 ummah... Are you in Lahore? Have you seen the exhibition HuT is organizing?[/QUOTE]

yes,the press club thing!


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## Leader

*O pakistan's armed forces* expel america, uproot traitors, and establish khilafat. I just saw this banner on their site....


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## Leader

1 ummah said:


> APNA GHR??? Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq...... r not our?????
> the prophet said muslims r like a body!!!! koi apki tang tor raha hai,koi hath kaat raha ho...to ap ko kiya hr hissay ki takleef,fikr nai ho gi?????


 
look Im not against the concept, its just HuT that doesnt fit in all this, atleast for me, good luck to you in your cause.


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## 1 ummah

Leader said:


> *O pakistan's armed forces* expel america, uproot traitors, and establish khilafat. I just saw this banner on their site....


 
so??????????????????


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## Leader

1 ummah said:


> so??????????????????


 
that just raised my eyebrow


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## 1 ummah

Leader said:


> look Im not against the concept, its just HuT that doesnt fit in all this, atleast for me, good luck to you in your cause.


 
thanks,but u shud know truth...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Leader said:


> nothing to comment...


 
No I m serious... I was once sitting with one of Tanzeems Grand Dragon in my city and he openly said that HuT has written much important work regarding the functioning of the State in comparison to ourselves... 

Do google the Manifesto book... check them out... they are not looking for millions of members but our people should at least look at the books they have published regarding the vision for Pakistan... this much should be done by us who love Pakistan...


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## Majnun

Hizb-ut-Tahrir, that is enjoying living in London, talking of united Ummah, while getting fat off of the scraps of the British government.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Majnun said:


> Hizb-ut-Tahrir, that is enjoying living in London, talking of united Ummah, while getting fat off of the scraps of the British government.


 
Actually it is Musharaf getting fat on top of the Kebab shop at Edgware Road in London...

Everyone knows who the real sell outs are Majnun... You can accuse those who stood up to Musharaf's tyranny all you want... reality stays the same on ground...


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## punit

> Rejoin muslim lands into 1 Islamic state, n spread it to rest of the world(this is sunnah)



my humble questions :
*which state will other states merge in.
* who will lead the ummah



> APNA GHR??? Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq...... r not our?????



of course everything except pakistan ..: sigh:


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## Patriot

Hizbul-Tahir and their fans are bunch of lunatics.Totally deserve boot in their a$$.I am glad Pakistani Government acted tough on these lunatics and kicked most of them out of Pakistan and banned it.It has terrorist wing too

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## Myth_buster_1

khurasaan1 said:


> We will implement the islamic law into Pakistan ..but not the law brought by Hizb-ut-Tehrir..cuz behind back of it is British MI6...yea...we already know that game as well....


 
How do you know a Islamic revolution in Pakistan wont be backed up by Saudi wahabhis, MI6? The prime example is Zaid Hamid.


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## pak-marine

Hizbut tehrir are uk born muslims whose members may have visited pakistan may be once or twice in their life are now halucinating about bringing their BBCD khalifas... lol ... who are the potential candidates any way ... make sure he isnt living on social and housing benefits

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## Doctor09

*implement system of ALLLAH .....yes every one wants this but there is one major problem in pak*
who will describe all the laws of ISLAM ? evey MULLAH of different FIRQA has his own point of view so when this time will come they will fight against each other.... no doubt ISLAMIC LAW is best and it do justice but first of all we should be careful when this time will come our MULLAHss should have one point of view

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Patriot said:


> Hizbul-Tahir and their fans are bunch of lunatics.Totally deserve boot in their a$$.I am glad Pakistani Government acted tough on these lunatics and kicked most of them out of Pakistan and banned it.It has terrorist wing too


 
Is it because you believe in freedom and democracy? 

Accusations accusations... my my what is the world coming to... Patriot my friend... I did not expect this from you...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Myth_buster_1 said:


> How do you know a Islamic revolution in Pakistan wont be backed up by Saudi wahabhis, MI6? The prime example is Zaid Hamid.


 
There is a good way to tell who is backed by whom... has to do with what agenda they carry and what they will actually implement... 

For those who think HuT is backed by this or that... why dont you forget HuT and take the lead? No one is asking for your vote... Tell us what you want to do... in detail... and if not then sorry the status quo cannot last much longer...


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## NaqsheYaar

Khilafat anywhere in the Mulsim world, is not possible until the arrival of Mahdi. He is described as the "Owner of Time", would turn all the tables in your favour inshAllah!! So wait till he arrives, it's going to be soon 2.5-3 years. Follow the chain of events around the world closely for clues.
Everybody else, every other organisation is FALLIBLE, so be careful when choosing sides.
When the Mahdi comes, everybody would know he has arrived, even the non-Muslims.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

NaqsheYaar said:


> Khilafat anywhere in the Mulsim world, is not possible until the arrival of Mahdi. He is described as the "Owner of Time", would turn all the tables in your favour inshAllah!! So wait till he arrives, it's going to be soon 2.5-3 years. Follow the chain of events around the world closely for clues.
> Everybody else, every other organisation is FALLIBLE, so be careful when choosing sides.
> When the Mahdi comes, everybody would know he has arrived, even the non-Muslims.


 
This Hadith proves your assertion as a misconception...

The Khilafat shall come before the Mahdi... Mahdi will be among the best of the next series of leaders for Muslims...

Check it out...

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Disagreement will occur at the death of a caliph and a man of the people of Medina will come flying forth to Mecca. Some of the people of Mecca will come to him, bring him out against his will and swear allegiance to him between the Corner and the Maqam. 

This hadith is in Sunan Dawood and clearly shows that there will be Caliphate before the Mahdi...

---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------

My own guess is that Mahdi is a good seven years away... 

Caliphate within five years and less inshaAllah


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## khurasaan1

Majnun said:


> Hizb-ut-Tahrir, that is enjoying living in London, talking of united Ummah, while getting fat off of the scraps of the British government.


 
Yes! I agree with u bro...u really know their roots, British MI6/Mosaad....


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> No I m serious... I was once sitting with one of Tanzeems Grand Dragon in my city and he openly said that HuT has written much important work regarding the functioning of the State in comparison to ourselves...
> .


 
Bro.. no organization work without money and secret backing of govts. anywhere in the world...HUT is one of them ..they talk about Islam but inside they dont know nothing about Islam...Infact they just want to get power anywayz over the Muslim majority areaz....We already know about so many British MI6 officers working for decades as Imaams in our Jamia Mosques...and no body never knew about them...so sad that we've been fooled in our own religion by these MI6 agents...

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## Solomon2

1 ummah said:


> sincere muslims!
> Islam is the system Muslims r obliged to implement,the msg is clear! get out n reject current system,work 4 khilafat


Why should Muslims wish to return to a system that Muslims themselves ultimately rejected after centuries of trial?


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## khurasaan1

Solomon2 said:


> Why should Muslims wish to return to a system that Muslims themselves ultimately rejected after centuries of trial?


 
It is rejected by the Western puppets installed/enforced on us ..not by the Muslim Public... and we gonna get it back as soon as possible .Insha-Allah.cuz that is our identity...

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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> How do you know a Islamic revolution in Pakistan wont be backed up by Saudi wahabhis, MI6? The prime example is Zaid Hamid.


 
Ure absolutely right about Zahid Hamid...cuz he is definitely backed by British MI6 and Wahabiz who r infact the MI6 created childrens...
We r going to bring Islamic law and a ruling council...fully backed by spiritual pplz of the country...the sufiz and the saints...nobody else..cuz the otherz can be perpetrated very easily....


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## Myth_buster_1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> There is a good way to tell who is backed by whom... has to do with what agenda they carry and what they will actually implement...


Pakistanis have failed to realize Jinnah was backed by British so I dont think so People in masses will be able to recognize real hands behind new revolution prime example "Egypt". 


> For those who think HuT is backed by this or that... why dont you forget HuT and take the lead? No one is asking for your vote... Tell us what you want to do... in detail... and if not then sorry the status quo cannot last much longer...


I would suspect every other Muslim organization in this world to be penetrated by multiple forces like Saudis and Intelligence agencies after all who else run the show. HuT is no exceptional since they also operate from Britain and I believe most of intellectuals of HuT are based in Britain. Do you seriously think Britian would allow such an organization to operate freely without controlling it some how?
I am just trying my best to wake people up and realize the reality here. NO ONE is their to make Muslims realize of their mistakes and faults and thats why i believe Islamic system wont work at all in any part of the world, at most a modified version or simply a name tag and Pakistan is prime example. You have a nation called "ISLAMIC" republic of Pakistan and only Liberals, Secular, and corrupt scum mullahs run the show.

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## Myth_buster_1

khurasaan1 said:


> *Ure absolutely right about Zahid Hamid...cuz he is definitely backed by British MI6 and Wahabiz who r infact the MI6 created childrens...*
> We r going to bring Islamic law and a ruling council...fully backed by spiritual pplz of the country...the sufiz and the saints...nobody else..cuz the otherz can be perpetrated very easily....


 
Sufis? com on  If you want saint people then why not hire Buddhists. 
I partially agree with the bold part though.


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> *Sufis? com on  *If you want saint people then why not hire Buddhists.
> I partially agree with the bold part though.



U know why I talked about sufis....cuz those will not be ordinary pplz ...with highly spiritual forces...cuz when this will happen..u will see ureself....they will amaze everybody...Infact some of the leading pplz fighting in Afghanistan are Sufis..thats why the US/NATO @$$ been beaten up so bad , amazingly and nobody knowz about that...


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> There is a good way to tell who is backed by whom... has to do with what agenda they carry and what they will actually implement...
> 
> For those who think HuT is backed by this or that... why dont you forget HuT and take the lead? No one is asking for your vote... Tell us what you want to do... in detail... and if not then sorry the status quo cannot last much longer...


 
Bro. When the time will come we gonna kickout these kinda fake(created by enemies of Islam) organizastions and will support the right guyz to implement the true and complete Shariah...We wont let any secret agency of the West fool us in the name of Islam...Insha-Allah...


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## Mutee

Why do u libeals get so worried when Someone talks about bribing khilafat that's shows your fear !!!


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## VCheng

Mutee said:


> Why do u libeals get so worried when Someone talks about bribing khilafat that's shows your fear !!!



I have no problems with khilafat as long as I AM THE KHALIFA!

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## Mutee

VCheng said:


> I have no problems with khilafat as long as I AM THE KHALIFA!


 
Stop trolling ok


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## khurasaan1

VCheng said:


> I have no problems with khilafat as long as I AM THE KHALIFA!


 
Yes! for sure I wont be having problem with u either...if u true and sincere in implementing Islam within the country...

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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Do you have any evidence of this?
> 
> Do you realize accusing someone of such thing is considered Buhtan and you know what the punishment of Buhtan is under Islam?
> 
> You sound like a supporter of Zaid Hamid... ?? From amongst the ill mannered group of Takmeel e Pakistan.. ??


 
Bro. not one evidence ...tons of evidences I can give u...if I can meet u personally....
Bro. I dont even support Zahid Hamid...he is another mobster of MI6...talks too much ..gets dictation from them..working for their agenda to destabilize Pakistan in one way or other...trying to fool us in the name of Revolution...
Some stuff he really say right but some stuff he sayz deliberately and screening the pplz eyes...u needa be very smart and knowledgeable to catch him...
Some pplz really did great job in catching him after all....before that I used to admire him but sometimes he really made me suspicious of him afterwards....Due to his many lies he did with different pplz at different occasions.....
He is very cunning, alwayz trying to butterup the Army and praise it openly but in the inside he be giving slow/sweet poison to the Army as well....one way he praise one sectarian group and the other time he praises the other one...He tries to hide the sectarian violence been backed by those sectarian groups within the country...


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## Solomon2

khurasaan1 said:


> It is rejected by the Western puppets installed/enforced on us ..


Are you sure you know what you are talking about? What do the Turkish Muslims here have to say about this version of events?


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## khurasaan1

Solomon2 said:


> Are you sure you know what you are talking about? What do the Turkish Muslims here have to say about this version of events?


 
It doesnt matter..everybody over there knowz that too...that Mustafe Kamal was a puppet leader installed by the British over there...

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## Jigs

khurasaan1 said:


> It doesnt matter..everybody over there knowz that too...that Mustafe Kamal was a puppet leader installed by the British over there...


 
I am sure this was the case considering he attacked and drove the British out he must have certainly been under their control. 

Another to add to the ignore list. I won't even brother educating you as it is better for some to stay arrogant for the status quo. It ironically helps prove points.

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## NaqsheYaar

Sufis are not any special breed of humans. A sufi is just a person who follows Islam to its true spirit, has unshakeable trust in God.

I can see we are all at loggerheads AFA Khilafat is concerned. It's going to take a lot to unite us on one point of view.


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## Myth_buster_1

NaqsheYaar said:


> Sufis are not any special breed of humans. *A sufi is just a person who follows Islam to its true spirit,* has unshakeable trust in God.
> 
> I can see we are all at loggerheads AFA Khilafat is concerned. It's going to take a lot to unite us on one point of view.


 
Wrong. A sufi is a person who claims to have godly powers, communicating with god, believing in mysticism, and other nonsense. 
Sufism | Surrendering Islam


> *Sufism*.
> It was William St. Clair, serving on a delegation for his father&#8217;s cousin, King Edward the Confessor, who escorted his successor, Edward &#8220;the Exile&#8221;, from Hungary back to England, after which his daughter Margaret later married Malcolm III of Scotland. The Sinclairs, who were also a Norman family descended from Rollo the Viking, eventually became the leading family of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, regarded as representing a very &#8220;sacred&#8221; bloodline.
> 
> Their brand of Scottish Rite Freemasonry was believed to have developed out of contact between the knights of the Crusades and the mystics of the Islamic world. With the collapse of the Roman Empire, the last of the Neoplatonic philosophers moved east, seeking temporary refuge at the court of the Persian king, though, finding their situation inhospitable, they departed from Persia to an unknown destination, some say to Harran. Harran was the seat of one of the most important esoteric communities, the Sabians, believed to have inherited the occult traditions of Alexandria in Egypt, preserving the knowledge of Neoplatonism, and Hermeticism.
> 
> According to al-Biruni, a Muslim scholar of the eleventh century, these were confused with the real Sabeans. The real Sabeans, he wrote, were originally remnants of Jews exiled at Babylon, where they had adopted the teachings of the Magi, or Zoroastrians. However, he indicates, the same name was applied to an occult community, the so-called Sabians of Harran:
> 
> They derive their system from Agathodaemon, Hermes, Walis, Maba, Sawar. They believe that these men and other sages like them were prophets. This sect is much more known by the name of Sabians than the others, although they themselves did not adopt this name before 228 A. H. under Abbasid rule, solely for the purpose of being reckoned among those from whom the duties of Dhimmies (protected non-Muslim community) are accepted, and towards whom the laws of Dhimmy are observed. Before that time they were called heathens, idolaters, and Harranians... 48
> 
> And when the Muslims embarked on their great project of translating the works of the Greek philosophers and other ancient authors, it was to the Sabians that they turned as a resource and as translators. Thus the age-old occult doctrines infiltrated the world of Islam. The first result of their influence was the emergence of Sufism, a so-called &#8220;mystical&#8221; approach to Islam. Several European historians, including noted French scholar of Islamic mysticism, Henry Corbin, has identified that the primary symbolism of Sufi teachings was derived from Sabian symbolism.
> 
> But by &#8220;mysticism&#8221; is meant the common practice known to the mysteries and the occult philosophies, meaning, the belief that knowlege or &#8220;Gnosis&#8221;, cannot be achieved by ordinary means, but must be achieved by direct &#8220;union&#8221; with the divine. To the worshippers of Dionysus, the state was known as &#8220;enthusiasmos&#8221; or &#8220;having a god within&#8221;. It was a type of possession, wherein the &#8220;god&#8221; was believed to seize hold of the initiate, and communicate information to him, or through him or her, and to other devotees. This is a practice also known as channelling. Communicated was knowledge of the future, or of occult knowledge like magic.
> 
> There are many who believe that Sufism merely started as a form of asceticism, but was later corrupted by the influence of Neoplatonism. The word &#8220;Sufism&#8221; is generally agreed to come from the word &#8220;Suf&#8221;, referring to the rough woolen garment that the early Sufis wore to expemplify their renunciation of the world. A well-known saying of the Prophet Mohammed (SAW) is &#8220;there is no monasticism [asceticism] in Islam&#8221;. Asceticism is a practice that is common throughout the world. It is found in the Merkabah, the monks of Christianity, the lamas of Buddhism, and the fakirs of Hinduism. Of the Christians, the Qur&#8217;an says, in Surat 57:27:
> 
> But the asceticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.
> 
> The asceticism of the Sufis is merely another kind of vanity. Instead of worldly power, fame or riches, it is the vanity of purported spiritual power that has attracted them. It is the deceptive seduction of the supposed &#8220;ecstasy&#8221; of the experiences they describe, which are more psycho-physical, and therefore more immediate and perceptible, than that of pure understanding.
> 
> Similar to pagan mysticism, the experiences of the Sufis usually involve trance states, visions, and other such quasi-spiritual experiences. In this way, Sufism has disguised ancient mystical practices as pursuit for higher levels of piety and devotion, and thereby acted as conduit to transmit foreign ideas to Islam, distancing some to the point where they wholly appropriated occult ideas that were overtly heretical.
> 
> It is generally accepted that the first exponent of Sufi doctrine was the Egyptian, or Nubian, Dhun Nun of the ninth century, whose teaching was recorded and systematised by al Junayd, and in it appears the essential doctrine of all mysticism, but known in Sufism as &#8220;tawhid&#8221;, meaning &#8220;unity&#8221; of the soul with God.
> 
> The doctrines expressed by al Junayd were boldly preached by his pupil, ash-Shibli of Khurasan in the tenth century. Al-Husayn ibn Mansur al-Hallaj was a fellow-student of ash-Shibli, and demonstrates some clearly heretical elements, such as reincarnation, incarnation, and so on. He was put to death by the son of Salahudin for declaring "I am the truth", identifying himself with God, but later Sufi writers regard him as a saint and martyr who suffered because he disclosed the great secret of the union between the soul and God.
> 
> This doctrine was known as hulul, or the incarnation of God in the human body, is treated as tawheed taking place in this present life. According to al-Hallaj, man is essentially divine because he was created by God in his own image, and that is why, he claimed, in Qur&#8217;an God commands the angels worship Adam. In hulul God enters the human soul in the same way that the soul at birth enters the body. As De Lacy O&#8217;Leary described, in Arabic Thought and its Place in History:
> 
> This is an extremely interesting illustration of the fusion of oriental and Hellenistic elements in Sufism, and shows that the theoretical doctrines of Sufism, whatever they may have borrowed from Persia and India, receive their interpretative hypotheses from neo-Platonism. It is interesting also as showing in the person of al-Hallaj a meeting-point between the Sufi and the philosopher of the Isma&#8216;ilian school.49
> 
> Sufism was generally looked upon as heretical, for several reasons. First of these was that they believed the daily prayers to be only for the masses, who had not achieved deeper spiritual knowledge, and could be disregarded by those more advanced spiritually. They introduced dhikr, or religious exercises, consisting in a continuous repetition of the name of God, practices unknown to early Islam, and consequently regarded as &#8220;bid&#8217;ah&#8221;, or innovation. Also, many of the Sufis adopted the practice of tawakkul, or complete &#8220;dependence&#8221; on God, by neglecting all kinds of labour or commerce, refusing medical care when they were ill, and living by begging.
> 
> It was not until the time of al Ghazali that Sufism began to become more accepted in orthodox Islam. Consider the description provided by al Ghazali, in his Deliverance from Error, which, without the Arabic terms, could easily be attributed to any of the famous mystics of history. About his conversion to Sufism he said:
> 
> "I saw that Sufism consists in experiences rather than in definitions and that what I was lacking belonged to the domain, not of instruction, but of ecstasy and initiation...
> 
> "From the time that they [the Sufis] set out on this path, revelations commence for them. They come to see in the waking state angels and souls of prophets; they hear their voices and wise counsels. By means of this contemplation of heavenly forms and images they rise by degrees to heights which human language can not reach, which one can not even indicate without falling into great and inevitable errors. The degree of proximity to Deity which they attain is regarded by some as intermixture of being (hulul), by others as identification (ittihad), by others as intimate union (wasl)."
> 
> Sufism was also influenced by Orpheus and related beliefs, and consequently by Pythagoras and his teachings. The attempts to construct a religious philosophy on the basis of Greek thought and especially the theories of Pythagoras culminated in Neoplatonism.
> 
> The Arabic philosopher most responsible for the interpretation of Islam according to Neoplatonic thought, was Ibn Arabi, born in Spain in 1164. One of his most famous works is the Bezels of Wisdom, conceived in the course of a &#8220;vision&#8221; which he had near the Kabbah. Ibn Arabi claimed that he received the work directly from Mohammad, who appeared to him in Damascus in 1229.
> 
> Ibn Arabi borrowed from Neoplatonism the concept of emanation. According to Neoplatonism, there is just one exalted God, who is transcendent and unknowable. However, although the world proceeds from God, he did not create it. The universe is an emanation from God, an outfow of his infinite power. Similarly, Ibn Arabi also held that, while the divine essence is absolutely unknowable, the cosmos as a whole is the manifestation of all God&#8217;s attributes. Since these attributes must have a creation to be known, &#8220;the One&#8221; is continually transforms itself into &#8220;Many&#8221;. This lead him to a doctrine often characterised as pantheism, where he saw that the goal of spiritual realisation is therefore to penetrate beyond the exterior world to &#8220;tawhid&#8221;, or &#8220;unity of existence&#8221;. That is, in which one sees the world as at once &#8220;One&#8221; and &#8220;Many&#8221;, or, ultimately, where one is able to see God in oneself.
> 
> Ibn Arabi also expounded on what became a central doctrine of Sufism, the notion of the &#8220;Qubt&#8221; or Pole. This &#8220;Pole of the World&#8221; headed hierarchies of saints the Sufis developed, headed by this &#8220;Qutb&#8221; or Pole of the World. This idea of a pole of the world is one of central significance to the Kabbalah, where it was likened, as in Ibn Arabi, with the Primordial Adam. Communication with these saints, most important of which is al Khidr, &#8220;the Green One&#8221;, replaced the gods and demons of ancient mysticism.


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## NaqsheYaar

I don't know if the author of this book is greater authority over the subject than Ghazali and Syed Ali Hijveri. You have to read up my friend!!
I don't want to debate,as this is a huge topic and I don't have time


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Wrong. *A sufi is a person who claims to have godly powers, communicating with god, believing in mysticism, and other nonsense. *Sufism | Surrendering Islam


 
I guess u got no idea...what the real sufis are Auliyaa-e-Allah SBWT...I guess its better u dont read Christians or jewish books ..instead...read some books I will put their names here..
1. Keemya-e-Sahaadat by Hazrat Imaam Ghazzaali.
2. Alfattah-e-Rabbani by Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani
3. Fassos-ul-Hukkam by Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani
4. Maktoobaat-e-Imaam Rabbani by Hazrat Mujaddid Alfe Saani. ( get its translation in Urdu which are in three Jildz...actual is in Persian..not the one in the two jildz cuz their translation is wrongly done by some illetrate person, who got no idea of Tassawwaf)
I guess these pplz/writers are real Auliya-e-Allah SBWT, are far more authentic and reliable than my arguments...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro. not one evidence ...tons of evidences I can give u...if I can meet u personally....
> Bro. I dont even support Zahid Hamid...he is another mobster of MI6...talks too much ..gets dictation from them..working for their agenda to destabilize Pakistan in one way or other...trying to fool us in the name of Revolution...
> Some stuff he really say right but some stuff he sayz deliberately and screening the pplz eyes...u needa be very smart and knowledgeable to catch him...
> Some pplz really did great job in catching him after all....before that I used to admire him but sometimes he really made me suspicious of him afterwards....Due to his many lies he did with different pplz at different occasions.....
> He is very cunning, alwayz trying to butterup the Army and praise it openly but in the inside he be giving slow/sweet poison to the Army as well....one way he praise one sectarian group and the other time he praises the other one...He tries to hide the sectarian violence been backed by those sectarian groups within the country...


 
I cannot meet you personally for obvious reasons... but you can feel free to message me... please its a humble request... 

You should know that I too have my suspicions  

but I do not have any evidence... so you need to share this info with me... drop me a line ok...

As for Zaid Hamid... haha... the thing about setting up an interim government with the courts and Army was enough to expose him in my eyes... I kept asking him not to do that but he was nt listening... see now how he has shut up after the RD case exposed both the courts and the top brass of the Army as nothing but stooges of the west...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> It doesnt matter..everybody over there knowz that too...that Mustafe Kamal was a puppet leader installed by the British over there...


 
Kemal most certainly had British connections... the problem with most people is that they see things in a uni direction instead of analyzing the complexity of politics... Kemal may have fought against the British on the outside... infact this is a classic tact that those who scream against a particular country eventually are found to be working for the same country... )hear hear Osama Bin Laden working for the US??  dont quote me on it but its an interesting thought is nt it?? )

The British wanted the end of the Ottomans... Kemal did just that... we dont need other proofs...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

NaqsheYaar said:


> I don't know if the author of this book is greater authority over the subject than Ghazali and Syed Ali Hijveri. You have to read up my friend!!
> I don't want to debate,as this is a huge topic and I don't have time


 
There is nothing wrong with Sufism... the problem is with some deviants who bring Sufis shame... we have that everywhere... Just look at the Saudi Royal Family for a model of islam... You get the point I hope...

and yes you are right... Imam Ghazali is a better examples of Sufis

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## VCheng

VCheng said:


> I have no problems with khilafat as long as I AM THE KHALIFA!


 


Mutee said:


> Stop trolling ok



I am not trolling.

My comment is intended to illustrate the fact that those wanting absolute power in the form of the Caliphate are okay with the system only if they themselves have the power, not somebody else that they disagree with.

To paraphrase:

_"Power that seems obscene when others have it, is not so bad when you yourself have it!"_


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## Jigs

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Kemal most certainly had British connections... the problem with most people is that they see things in a uni direction instead of analyzing the complexity of politics... Kemal may have fought against the British on the outside... infact this is a classic tact that those who scream against a particular country eventually are found to be working for the same country... )hear hear Osama Bin Laden working for the US??  dont quote me on it but its an interesting thought is nt it?? )
> 
> The British wanted the end of the Ottomans... Kemal did just that... we dont need other proofs...



The British and most other states wanted the treaty of servers which the sultan agreed to which allowed his government to stay in power. Having this opposed was something none of the great powers wanted and it was the one and only Ataturk that did oppose it with his nationalist movement. You would know this if you educated yourself on the matter. So your proof has been proved wrong. 


Ataturk btw also had Russian connections for arms supplies and he also had U.S. connections and many other connections it is called advanced diplomacy a concept foreign to many middle eastern countries who have become nothing more then revolting oil hubs with backward ideologies. Ataturk was first and foremost a nationalist before anything else(you can easily see this from the way he carried himself and in his will) which is why he rejected the Russian communist expansions but had them supply arms and the agreements would lead to Armenia becoming a communist satellite state.He then began nationalist movements to throw the British out of Istanbul(and there they went) but not before he mobilized the whole country for total war against Greece at which point had troops as far as Ankara with Constantine commanding them (of course he was not of the military warcrafting of Ataturk who knew he could not support his supply lines this far into foreign land and had them attacked (and there went Greece). He did what he needed to save the country from the Sultan who had less value then a dead pig at this point as he signed the Treaty of Sèvres to sell out the nation among many other Ottoman sell outs (Who all got the ultimate punishment living out their days in foreign countries till death most were not even exiled they simply left and never returned). If you want to truly see who sold the Turks take a look at the Sultan who was willing to allow a full Multi-National occupation and land distribution of his own country to hold some sort of power.

We have all seen what your system of governance does very well in extensive detail. What it has done to many countries and what it is doing now. We don't need it back. However make sure to stay hypocritical and hold no credibility from your freedom boxes that give you the rights to have such failed concepts as credible opinions.


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## ovarel

jigs is a bit outdated..even CHP admitted that Vahdettin didnt sell us out..

actually vahdettin was an elegant man..he could have fought with kemal,he had that support..but he didnt want a civil war and he left..however,kemal enjoyed his dictatorship.

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## 1 ummah

Patriot said:


> Hizbul-Tahir and their fans are bunch of lunatics.Totally deserve boot in their a$$.I am glad Pakistani Government acted tough on these lunatics and kicked most of them out of Pakistan and banned it.It has terrorist wing too


 
Courts Declare Ban on Hizb ut-Tahrir Defective, Distribution of Pamphlets Legal and Political work for Khilafah Constitutional

*The Honourable Judge of the Anti Terrorism Court III at Karachi Mr. Arshad Noor Khan declared the notification dated 20.11.03 banning Hizb ut-Tahrir defective,* He observed, In the present case the notification Ex. 17 is completely silent regarding any reason basing on which Hizbul Tahrir organization has been declared as proscribed organization. The first line of the notification Ex. 17 is the reproduction of the wording of Section 11-B(1)(a) ibid. and thereafter it is silent with regard to any reason as such notification Ex. 17 in my humble opinion* is defective* for want of reasons in writing,[emphasis added]



The Honourable Judge of Lahore High Court Multan Bench declared that distribution of pamphlets cannot be termed terrorism, He observed, The perusal of those pamphlets shows that defunct Hizb-ut-Tahrir has shown dissatisfaction on the policies of the government which is the right of each and every citizens I am unable to understand as to how distribution of these pamphlets in the general public was termed as terrorism or sectarianism,



It is also pertinent to mention that the Honourable court of Mr. Justice Karamat Nazir Bhandari, Judge Lahore High Court Lahore, stated in a writ petition No. 524/2002 that peacefully *working for the prorogation of Khilafah is not contrary to the law*, so the Honourable court directed the respondents not to harass the petitioner (present petitioner was also the petitioner in that case), He observed, in so far as the other activities of the petitioner are concerned like speech and propagating system of Khilafat, it is laid down in the Constitution that no citizen shall be prohibited from doing that which the law does not prohibit him



On 20 January 2010, Judge of Anti Terrorism court no 1, Lahore declare in his order in a case involving HT members; I have carefully pursued pamphlets showing dissatisfaction upon national foreign policy of president Zardari in collusion with American government. Distribution of such pamphlets in public can not be termed as terrorism or secularism. Needless to mention here, that our constitution safeguards fundamental rights of freedom of expressions etc., so these freedoms can not constitute any offence. This court is of this considered view that* no terrorism* is constituted from the gist of alleged pamphlets.


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## 1 ummah

doctor09 said:


> *implement system of ALLLAH .....yes every one wants this but there is one major problem in pak*
> who will describe all the laws of ISLAM ? evey MULLAH of different FIRQA has his own point of view so when this time will come they will fight against each other.... no doubt ISLAMIC LAW is best and it do justice but first of all we should be careful when this time will come our MULLAHss should have one point of view


 
khilafa will come with the effort of those who r WORKIN 4 it(H.T) so 1st khalif wud b H.Ts ameer( as general ppl n even ( )mullahs sp.barailvis r unfortunately not capable to decide or give rulings...n it is a hadees n reality that *hukam/opinion of imam/leader ends the differences!! *

THESE R NOT THE HURDLES THE ONLY HURDLE IS ABSENCE OF NUSRA, N THAT IS WAT H.T IS ASKIN FOR DIRECTLY N OPENLY FROM ARMY,AS ARMY IS THE ONLY POWER WHICH CAN PROTECT KHILAFA FROM FALLIN ..AS WE ALL KNOW ALLAH HAS ORDERED US TO GAIN POWER ,N THIS IS WAT OUR BELOVED PROPHET (P.B.U.H) DID I.E ASKED FOR NUSRAH FROM MOST POWER FULL CLANS/QABEELAS N IT WAS SAAD (R.A) WHO WAS LEADER IN MADINA N EMBRACED ISLAM,GAVE NUSRA,N MOHAMMAD(P.B.U.H) WENT TO MADINA AS A HEAD N ESTABLISHED ISLAMIC STATE!

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## 1 ummah

NaqsheYaar said:


> Khilafat anywhere in the Mulsim world, is not possible until the arrival of Mahdi. He is described as the "Owner of Time", would turn all the tables in your favour inshAllah!! So wait till he arrives, it's going to be soon 2.5-3 years. Follow the chain of events around the world closely for clues.
> Everybody else, every other organisation is FALLIBLE, so be careful when choosing sides.
> When the Mahdi comes, everybody would know he has arrived, even the non-Muslims.


 
even if mehdi will b the 1st khalif wen khilafat revives it does not takes off the responsibility of workin to establish it...ALLAH wont drop imam mehdi from sky wid a board "I M imam MEHDI,THE CALIPH U'V BEEN WAITIN 4,LETS START KHILAFAT!!!!!!"

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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro.. no organization work without money and secret backing of govts. anywhere in the world...HUT is one of them ..they talk about Islam but inside they dont know nothing about Islam...Infact they just want to get power anywayz over the Muslim majority areaz....We already know about so many British MI6 officers working for decades as Imaams in our Jamia Mosques...and no body never knew about them...so sad that we've been fooled in our own religion by these MI6 agents...


 
PROVE IT DONT JUST BLAME!!! N HOW CAN U SAY THEY KNOW NOTHING ?? HAVE U ASKED ANY Q??? HAVE U TALKED TO NE1 FROM H.T??? M SURE NOT! tomorrow H.T is organisin exibition in press club do visit,cross question,discuss!!

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## 1 ummah

[QUOTEthats why i believe Islamic system wont work at all in any part of the world, at most a modified version or simply a name tag and Pakistan is prime example. You have a nation called "ISLAMIC" republic of Pakistan and only Liberals, Secular, and corrupt scum mullahs run the show.[/QUOTE]
as u mentioned Q.A was agent,islam was abused to make pakistan..so u cant give its exampl as islamic state,it was never the purpose!1
n it doesnt matters if u think islmic system wont work coz it obligation!! no choice !!

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## Myth_buster_1

khurasaan1 said:


> I guess u got no idea...what the real sufis are Auliyaa-e-Allah SBWT...I guess its better u dont read Christians or jewish books ..instead...read some books I will put their names here..
> 1. Keemya-e-Sahaadat by Hazrat Imaam Ghazzaali.
> 2. Alfattah-e-Rabbani by Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani
> 3. Fassos-ul-Hukkam by Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani
> 4. Maktoobaat-e-Imaam Rabbani by Hazrat Mujaddid Alfe Saani. ( get its translation in Urdu which are in three Jildz...actual is in Persian..not the one in the two jildz cuz their translation is wrongly done by some illetrate person, who got no idea of Tassawwaf)
> I guess these pplz/writers are real Auliya-e-Allah SBWT, are far more authentic and reliable than my arguments...


 
Was our Prophet Mohammed PBUH a Sufi? Did he believe in above people's doctrines? Is the above matter not a newly invented matter which the prophet rejected? Didnt Sufism derived from mysticism and some early influential figures even claimed to be incarnation of God? 
For me Islam = Quran, Hadis, Sunnah only and nothing else.


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## Myth_buster_1

1 ummah said:


> [QUOTEthats why i believe Islamic system wont work at all in any part of the world, at most a modified version or simply a name tag and Pakistan is prime example. You have a nation called "ISLAMIC" republic of Pakistan and only Liberals, Secular, and corrupt scum mullahs run the show.


 as u mentioned Q.A was agent,islam was abused to make pakistan..so u cant give its exampl as islamic state,it was never the purpose!1
n it doesnt matters if u think islmic system wont work coz it obligation!! no choice !![/QUOTE]

I know its obligation on every Muslim to live by this system but realistically speaking in today's Muslim world, no one is ready to except such a system because you have Muslim divided from within.


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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Yes! for sure I wont be having problem with u either...if u true and sincere in implementing Islam within the country...


 
yea!! thats the criteria!! + aqil,baligh,adil male!!

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## 1 ummah

Myth_buster_1 said:


> as u mentioned Q.A was agent,islam was abused to make pakistan..so u cant give its exampl as islamic state,it was never the purpose!1
> n it doesnt matters if u think islmic system wont work coz it obligation!! no choice !!


 
I know its obligation on every Muslim to live by this system but realistically speaking in today's Muslim world, no one is ready to except such a system because you have Muslim divided from within.[/QUOTE]

ALLAH TAWAKL!!1 how did islam spread 1st???? kufar embraced islam,gave nusrah,established state, spead from spain to asia!! wats more impossible?? to re-establish,re unite or that wat prophet n sahaba did?? it is only imaan which ALLAH demands to grant success!!


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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro. not one evidence ...tons of evidences I can give u...if I can meet u personally....
> Bro. I dont even support Zahid Hamid...he is another mobster of MI6...talks too much ..gets dictation from them..working for their agenda to destabilize Pakistan in one way or other...trying to fool us in the name of Revolution...
> Some stuff he really say right but some stuff he sayz deliberately and screening the pplz eyes...u needa be very smart and knowledgeable to catch him...
> Some pplz really did great job in catching him after all....before that I used to admire him but sometimes he really made me suspicious of him afterwards....Due to his many lies he did with different pplz at different occasions.....
> He is very cunning, alwayz trying to butterup the Army and praise it openly but in the inside he be giving slow/sweet poison to the Army as well....one way he praise one sectarian group and the other time he praises the other one...He tries to hide the sectarian violence been backed by those sectarian groups within the country...


 
oops!! u wer supose to give evidence against H.T?? but u know ur ILL-LOGICAL buhtans will b refuted EASILY!!


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## Myth_buster_1

1 ummah said:


> ALLAH TAWAKL!!1 how did islam spread 1st???? kufar embraced islam,gave nusrah,established state, spead from spain to asia!! wats more impossible?? to re-establish,re unite or that wat prophet n sahaba did?? it is only imaan which ALLAH demands to grant success!!


 
Islam spread because of Prophet Mohammed PBUH. Today we have god knows how many sects, Muslims cant even agree on which Hadis is authentic or not, every Muslim has his her own interpretation of Quran and Hadis so then how will be make this system new to Muslims functional? At most we can just talk about it and increase awareness.


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## 1 ummah

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Islam spread because of Prophet Mohammed PBUH. Today we have god knows how many sects, Muslims cant even agree on which Hadis is authentic or not, every Muslim has his her own interpretation of Quran and Hadis so then how will be make this system new to Muslims functional? At most we can just talk about it and increase awareness.


 
OK DOES ANY1 OBJECTS : PARDA IZ FARZ.INTEREST IS HARAM, JIHAD IS FARZ...??? no 

its ok in islam to have difrenc of opinion as long as their is no shirk...

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## 1 ummah

besides u can visit H.Ts sites m givin wiki link.. i dint read the whole thing but i know its correct 

Hizb ut-Tahrir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## 1 ummah

watch this NAVEED BUTT Spokes PERSON OF H.T pakistan


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## khurasaan1

Jigs said:


> I am sure this was the case considering he attacked and drove the British out he must have certainly been under their control.
> 
> Another to add to the ignore list. I won't even brother educating you as it is better for some to stay arrogant for the status quo. It ironically helps prove points.


 
Dont worry bro. I wont be arrogant...maybe for you he did drove British to show his pplz that he is very sincere and true to his pplz...yes maybe he do ..but he was not sincere to Islam...thats why he tried to change the religious practices. He forced pplz to leave Sunnah..and stuff like that..I guess u think that British were very weak to be driven like that ( I mean like sheeps)... its impossible...The British were very powerful and till now they are...
But Anyways I will appreciate one thing about him that he did take half of Cyprus from Greece by force. The nowadayz Turkish govt ..Yes! they are sincere pplz to Islam and their pplz too... I highly appreciate them...


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> PROVE IT DONT JUST BLAME!!! N HOW CAN U SAY THEY KNOW NOTHING ?? HAVE U ASKED ANY Q??? HAVE U TALKED TO NE1 FROM H.T??? M SURE NOT! tomorrow H.T is organisin exibition in press club do visit,cross question,discuss!!


 
Bro.. I do know some pplz in H. T. and had discussions with them...their main mission and function is to take power of the Country...they not sincere in Islam and stuff like that ..They are the same one like TTP in SWAT and our tribal areas.. Their secret mission is to destabilize the country as soon as possible ...and I really know some pplz in it who got connections in Britain... thats why Im talking about ...
If they were sincere I be very glad to praise them and support them ..but unfortunately it is the opposite...Sorry to hurt ure feelingz.. I didn't mean it but what I can do...
I told you what I seen and observed...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Jigs said:


> The British and most other states wanted the treaty of servers which the sultan agreed to which allowed his government to stay in power. Having this opposed was something none of the great powers wanted and it was the one and only Ataturk that did oppose it with his nationalist movement. You would know this if you educated yourself on the matter. So your proof has been proved wrong.
> 
> 
> Ataturk btw also had Russian connections for arms supplies and he also had U.S. connections and many other connections it is called advanced diplomacy a concept foreign to many middle eastern countries who have become nothing more then revolting oil hubs with backward ideologies. Ataturk was first and foremost a nationalist before anything else(you can easily see this from the way he carried himself and in his will) which is why he rejected the Russian communist expansions but had them supply arms and the agreements would lead to Armenia becoming a communist satellite state.He then began nationalist movements to throw the British out of Istanbul(and there they went) but not before he mobilized the whole country for total war against Greece at which point had troops as far as Ankara with Constantine commanding them (of course he was not of the military warcrafting of Ataturk who knew he could not support his supply lines this far into foreign land and had them attacked (and there went Greece). He did what he needed to save the country from the Sultan who had less value then a dead pig at this point as he signed the Treaty of Sèvres to sell out the nation among many other Ottoman sell outs (Who all got the ultimate punishment living out their days in foreign countries till death most were not even exiled they simply left and never returned). If you want to truly see who sold the Turks take a look at the Sultan who was willing to allow a full Multi-National occupation and land distribution of his own country to hold some sort of power.
> 
> We have all seen what your system of governance does very well in extensive detail. What it has done to many countries and what it is doing now. We don't need it back. However make sure to stay hypocritical and hold no credibility from your freedom boxes that give you the rights to have such failed concepts as credible opinions.


 
Typical Kemalist nonsense... anything and everything associated with Islam/Religion/Ottomans has to be wrong and everything that Kemal did was the best thing that ever happened to Turks... Talk about rewriting the history... lets put Kemal's immortal head in every corner and every street of Turkey and forget about the Ottomans (which did nt give the Turks anything)... and while you are at it... do treat little girls wearing hijab in the same manner as this Kemalist did in the video... Turkey indeed looks like the role model for snakes and lizzards that way...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro.. I do know some pplz in H. T. and had discussions with them...their main mission and function is to take power of the Country...they not sincere in Islam and stuff like that ..They are the same one like TTP in SWAT and our tribal areas.. Their secret mission is to destabilize the country as soon as possible ...and I really know some pplz in it who got connections in Britain... thats why Im talking about ...
> If they were sincere I be very glad to praise them and support them ..but unfortunately it is the opposite...Sorry to hurt ure feelingz.. I didn't mean it but what I can do...
> I told you what I seen and observed...


 
Just because someone has connections in Britain does nt make them MI6 my friend... you need to be more substantive in your evidence...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

ovarel said:


> jigs is a bit outdated..even CHP admitted that Vahdettin didnt sell us out..
> 
> actually vahdettin was an elegant man..he could have fought with kemal,he had that support..but he didnt want a civil war and he left..however,kemal enjoyed his dictatorship.


 
Who is CHP?

Overal... do you understand the term rewriting history? This is what the British have done with massive propaganda against the Turks... I ll give you one example that I have extensively studied and researched... It is one of the most important aspects of Irish Famine History, yet the British managed to completely erase it from the history books... To the extent that you hardly find any reference to it in the common books on Irish History/Famine history that common Irish folks have access to...

Check it out...

How the Khilafah aided the Irish during the famine of 1845

Anyway... those who are brought up as mental slaves to the west can never understand such things... propaganda really does sell my friends...

Totally on topic... this is what Islam (the system of Allah) does to people... It makes them kind and caring... instead of corrupt and evil (all blessings of secularism)...

Enjoy


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## Myth_buster_1

1 ummah said:


> OK DOES ANY1 OBJECTS : PARDA IZ FARZ.INTEREST IS HARAM, JIHAD IS FARZ...??? no
> 
> its ok in islam to have difrenc of opinion as long as their is no shirk...


 
even the three objectives you mentioned Muslims will still have so much of difference of opinions that they wont settle with ONE. Take Parda for instance. Some people will like to implement a strict form of Parda on Women like they must cover their entire body and face (which is wrong) and some Muslims with secular Mind will reject such a law and you will have clashes.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Ahh...

Cumhuriyet Halk Partisi


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Myth_buster_1 said:


> even the three objectives you mentioned Muslims will still have so much of difference of opinions that they wont settle with ONE. Take Parda for instance. Some people will like to implement a strict form of Parda on Women like they must cover their entire body and face (which is wrong) and some Muslims with secular Mind will reject such a law and you will have clashes.


 
no clashes... the purdah of consensus is known to everyone... the extremist purdah is in personal domain... as for the secularist... they will be fined for breach of purdah obviously...

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## clmeta

I guess Iran and Saudi Arabia have implemented that system. Not sure but some Pakistanis believe Taliban had that system.


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## Majnun

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Kemal most certainly had British connections... the problem with most people is that they see things in a uni direction instead of analyzing the complexity of politics... Kemal may have fought against the British on the outside... infact this is a classic tact that those who scream against a particular country eventually are found to be working for the same country... )hear hear Osama Bin Laden working for the US??  dont quote me on it but its an interesting thought is nt it?? )
> 
> The British wanted the end of the Ottomans... Kemal did just that... we dont need other proofs...


 


The British had been keeping the Ottomans on life-support for decades. They decided it was time for them to go, and for the breakup of Turkey, to which the Ottoman Vahid readily agreed. Only Mustafa Kemal Ataturk and the nationalist forces fought to save Turkey and liberate the people.
He was fighting three wars at once during the Turkish War of Independence, with so many enemies, of course he had to make certain concessions to the superpowers of the time, the British. I should have thought that was elementary and logical.


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## Majnun

clmeta said:


> I guess Iran and Saudi Arabia have implemented that system. Not sure but some Pakistanis believe Taliban had that system.


 


I guess you don't know much about these countries. KSA has implemented many aspects of that system in social life, but the system is not the one that some people are ranting and raving about. Iran is a Shia theological state, they most definitely have not implemented any such system.


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Just because someone has connections in Britain does nt make them MI6 my friend... you need to be more substantive in your evidence...


 
Okay bro...If u read Quran...it sayz never make Yahood or Nassaaraa ure friendz cuz they are never ure friendz...They are the enemies of Allah and his Rasool sallallah-o-Alai-he-wassallam....
So any group who has roots from the enemies of Rasool Allah ..so what u think about them...??? they are friendz of Rasool Allah????
and in another sense they HUT alwayz goes against the spiritual Islamic teachingz of our Auliyaa Allah ...so what u think ..whoever goes against them/Auliyaa-e-Allahz teachingz are true friendz of Allah???...It is impossible bro...impossible...
the fire and the water cannot stand together ..one has to go .....The "Haq" and "Batil" cannot sit together...the "Batil" has to go ..when "Haq" comes..
This is clearly stated in Quran " Jaa-al-Haq wa Zahaqqal Batil , Innal Batilla Kaana Zahookaa" meaning : whenever Haq comes Batil disperses and infact Batil has to be finished...
Now the enemies of Islam are trying to confuse the Muslims of the world into different groups so they can control and rule them with ease...
This is a simple logic ..we dont even need details...we shold straight look into Quran ..whoever have roots from the enemies of Rasool Allah cant be our friendz ..no matter whatever group it is...cuz the enemies of Islam will not tolerate Rasool Allahz pplz/friendz...
Another thing the Khalifa should be the most pious person in all of us ..if not, he cant deserves to be Khalifa...like we had at the time of Sahaabah...everything is so simple...bro..
If u still dont agree or have some confusionz then ..u may try to read one of the bookz

*Maqtoobat-e-Imaam Rabbaani by Hazrat Mujaddid Alf-e-Saani*U can find its translation in Urdu (in three Jilds, is the correct one)
The original book is in persian..
Hazrat Mujaddid'z arguments are far better than me to write over here..and I cant write here in Arabic ...

U will easily find enough material to understand what kinda pplz can bring the real Khilafat ...and what kinda pplz are true for the cause of Islam ...Other than that everybody is the Ghulaam of their "Nafs" and u know Nafs means what???
is controlled by Devil or Devillish powerz...
These pplz They dont even know the Sunnah of Rasool-Allah and Sahaabah and trying to claim that they will bring the Khilafat and true Islam, in the same way as of TTP of SWAT and tribal areas..
cuz this MI6 got defeated over there and now trying by another way to destabilize the country...Insha-Allah they will get defeated again...


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## Burger Boy

khurasaan1 said:


> It doesnt matter..everybody over there knowz that too...that Mustafe Kamal was a puppet leader installed by the British over there...


 
You idiot, if it were not for Kemal, the British would be controlling Istanbul today the same way they still control Gibraltar, and the Greeks would control Izmir. I don't agree with everything Kemal did, but if it were not for him Turkey would be a tiny state surrounded by European imperialists. He was not a demon like you extremists make him out to be. 

Because of Ataturk, Turkey went from that:






To That:






Yasasin Turkiye

Yasasin Ataturk

Yasasin Laik Cumuriyet

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## Raja.Pakistani

khurasaan1 said:


> Okay bro...If u read Quran...it sayz never make Yahood or Nassaaraa ure friendz cuz they are never ure friendz...They are the enemies of Allah and his Rasool sallallah-o-Alai-he-wassallam....



I wonder when peoples like you come up with such comment

dude better you watch this video


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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro.. I do know some pplz in H. T. and had discussions with them...their main mission and function is to take power of the Country...they not sincere in Islam and stuff like that ..They are the same one like TTP in SWAT and our tribal areas.. Their secret mission is to destabilize the country as soon as possible ...and I really know some pplz in it who got connections in Britain... thats why Im talking about ...
> If they were sincere I be very glad to praise them and support them ..but unfortunately it is the opposite...Sorry to hurt ure feelingz.. I didn't mean it but what I can do...
> I told you what I seen and observed...


 
hello m from hizb ut tahrir,i know how sincere n strict they r,they don't tolerate any 1 who commits harram,yes we have bro n sis from uk as they r who intro H..T here(4 DAWAH), they dont need power for personal rezn its islam n I*SLAM NEEDS POWER/HAKOOMT* ...i mentioned un brief wat prophet(P.B.U.H) did to establish state n thats exactly wat H.T is duin!! * can u reject prophet saying ALL HE WANTED WAS POWER*????? 

U MUST HAVE MET PATHAN ALREADY INFLUENCED BY TALIBAN or may b new in H.T or not from H.T BUT BELIEVE ME I'V TESTED N TRIED!! 

N ITS BETER THAN ZARDARI,TALIBAN HAKOOMT!!


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## 1 ummah

Myth_buster_1 said:


> even the three objectives you mentioned Muslims will still have so much of difference of opinions that they wont settle with ONE. Take Parda for instance. Some people will like to implement a strict form of Parda on Women like they must cover their entire body and face (which is wrong) and some Muslims with secular Mind will reject such a law and you will have clashes.


 
EVERY 1 HAS TO FOLLOW KHALIFS OPINION...AS it will end differences


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## Majnun

1 ummah said:


> EVERY 1 HAS TO FOLLOW KHALIFS OPINION...AS it will end differences


 


So what you basically want is a one-man dictatorship?


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## 1 ummah

Majnun said:


> So what you basically want is a one-man dictatorship?


 
o bhai khalif follows quran n sunnah ...but to avoid problems bcoz of dif of opinion this is hukm...imaam ikhtalaf door krta hai!!! it is to maintain stability!!


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## Majnun

1 ummah said:


> o bhai khalif follows quran n sunnah ...but to avoid problems bcoz of dif of opinion this is hukm...imaam ikhtalaf door krta hai!!! it is to maintain stability!!


 


From what you have written you want a one-man dictatorship that will ensure stability, so do you want a country ruled in the manner Qaddhafi rules Libya or Mugabe rules Zimbabwe?


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## 1 ummah

Majnun said:


> From what you have written you want a one-man dictatorship that will ensure stability, so do you want a country ruled in the manner Qaddhafi rules Libya or Mugabe rules Zimbabwe?


 
r they implementin quran n sunnah?????????????


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## Majnun

1 ummah said:


> r they implementin quran n sunnah?????????????


 


Does saying you are implementing Quran and Sunnat justify a one-man dictatorship?


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## 1 ummah

khalif wont tell wat he wants, u can call it ALLAH's dictatorship


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## Andross

no such thing as ummah or allah system it is pipe dream like ghazi hind crap


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## Majnun

1 ummah said:


> khalif wont tell wat he wants, u can call it ALLAH's dictatorship


 


Who will govern here? Who will the lawmakers be?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

The only bit that needs to be added is that all laws in the Caliphate can be challenged by anyone... This argument by Majnun who is obviously a Kemalist that it would be a one man dictatorship is very lame because in most countries one person has a final say on some issues regardless of whether they are a democracy or not... In America the US president blocked research on stem cells for example... in the Caliphate if the Caliph does something like that, people will take him to court as it is against Islam to ban stem cell research... 

but anyway, one can tell who is interested to learn and who is here with a six shooter... pointless to entertain the later attitude...


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## NaqsheYaar

Majnun said:


> So what you basically want is a one-man dictatorship?


 
A Caliph should be a person who should have answers to every question on the face of the earth... Any sort of inquiries not just Islamic or Shariah related.
If that's not the case, he shouldn't be regarded as a Caliph I think.


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## divya

NaqsheYaar said:


> A Caliph should be a person who should have answers to every question on the face of the earth... Any sort of inquiries not just Islamic or Shariah related.
> If that's not the case, he shouldn't be regarded as a Caliph I think.


 
Then google search would be the best candidate for being the Caliph....

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## gubbi

divya said:


> Then google search would be the best candidate for being the Caliph....


 

Well said!


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## humanfirst

1 ummah said:


> khalif wont tell wat he wants, u can call it ALLAH's dictatorship


 
Suppose a caliph drinks alcohol,have hundreds of concubines and appoint his son as next caliph..What is in caliphate system to stop that unislamic practises of caliph?


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## forcetrip

Does anyone have a candidate or cadidates in mind?? Who will the people elect as the Caliphate?? obviously the guy opening these topics has someone in mind because for the last 3 months thats all he has been doing. I understand the love for a 1400 year old system he has but it is still going to be run by a person.


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## punit

> A Caliph should be a person who should have answers to *every question on the face of the earth*... Any sort of inquiries not just Islamic or Shariah related.



kahe se layenge aisa Caliph ..


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

divya said:


> Then google search would be the best candidate for being the Caliph....


 
You are obviously an intelligent lady... How about putting in your real and if I may add decent pic of yourself in your avatar... 

and how about you support us in our quest for Islam... after all even Gandhi Jee supported the Khilafat Movement!!!

Regards

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

humanfirst said:


> Suppose a caliph drinks alcohol,have hundreds of concubines and appoint his son as next caliph..What is in caliphate system to stop that unislamic practises of caliph?


 
A need for Ijtihad was felt for issues such as this... Unfortunately in the past Muslims neglected accountability of their leaders to some extent (or even large extent) this is why groups like the Abbasids had no other choice but resort to violence to overthrow entrenched dynasty of Ummayads... 

Anyway... there is going to be a court of Madhalim dealing specifically with issues related to rulers and government... the judge of such court will have the power to summon Caliph and even remove Caliph from office if he is found guilty of any crime...

InshaAllah to all this and more...

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## Ahmad

Leader said:


> I would prefer to stick with Dr Israr's vision of Khilafat then to some foreign organization...


 
may i ask what is the difference between this version of khilafat and the other one?


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## khurasaan1

Majnun said:


> Who will govern here? Who will the lawmakers be?


 
Nobody is gonna be law maker ..cuz we already got the law in the form of Quran and Sunnah...

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## Gold1010

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> You are obviously an intelligent lady... How about putting in your real and if I may add decent pic of yourself in your avatar...
> 
> and how about you support us in our quest for Islam... after all even Gandhi Jee supported the Khilafat Movement!!!
> 
> Regards


 
How about you go to respect for women school in Ireland which can be Headquarters for your grand islamic state?


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## khurasaan1

d1rty Minded said:


> *You idiot, if it were not for Kemal, the British would be controlling Istanbul today the same way they still control Gibraltar, and the Greeks would control Izmir.* I don't agree with everything Kemal did, but if it were not for him Turkey would be a tiny state surrounded by European imperialists. He was not a demon like you extremists make him out to be.



Umm...So Im idiot...very sad!...anywayz... *I guess Kemal was the only Muslim left in Turkey to fight the British and drive them out.*..Why! he had Wizardy Lamp with Gene working for him...???? or he had enough resources to build his own Army to kick out The British,the world Super power of his time..??? or was he given Karaamah from God that he faught and he was the one chosen by god and Angelz were fighting alongwith him????
Give me facts and figures ..where did he got the weapons to fight the Tanks or the Biggest Army of the World...or where he got the pplz to fight them??? How he had to pay them or their families...???
Dont show us ..what it is written in the history ..by the Britisherz...!!!!
and all the Muslims were dead or they had no brains to do anything...???
*Another thing : The symbol in ure avatar is a symbol of the SECRET SOCIETY who worship Luciferz...*


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## khurasaan1

Raja.Pakistani said:


> I wonder when peoples like you come up with such comment
> 
> dude better you watch this video


 
Okay dont follow what Quran syaz to u ..and follow the Britisherz or CIAz created Imaamz to guide u ...When the punishment from Allah SBWT will come on u ..then there will be no time for return...
Alhamdolillah...I read Quran and Hadith and takes my guidance from them...not looking at the fake or imposterz(agentz) by the Devilz(secret societies) fooling the world on the name of Islam...


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> hello m from hizb ut tahrir,i know how sincere n strict they r,they don't tolerate any 1 who commits harram,yes we have bro n sis from uk as they r who intro H..T here(4 DAWAH), they dont need power for personal rezn its islam n I*SLAM NEEDS POWER/HAKOOMT* ...i mentioned un brief wat prophet(P.B.U.H) did to establish state n thats exactly wat H.T is duin!! * can u reject prophet saying ALL HE WANTED WAS POWER*?????
> 
> U MUST HAVE MET PATHAN ALREADY INFLUENCED BY TALIBAN or may b new in H.T or not from H.T BUT BELIEVE ME I'V TESTED N TRIED!!
> 
> N ITS BETER THAN ZARDARI,TALIBAN HAKOOMT!!


 
Maybe u dont know the Bakground of the Hizb Tehrir...Im gonna prove it here insha-Allah that it is infact directly/indirectly Run by British MI6...by asking some of simple questions from u and showing u the resultz...

1. Is any memeber of Hizb-Tehrir fighting in Afghanistan against the US/NATO ???
2. Does it support the Taliban fighterz against the US/NATO in Afghanistan morally and financially???
I need clear answerz to them....


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## lionheart1

pakistan should become proper democracy , when a criminal like david hedley can escape on basic of religion so please dont bring religion in public affairs


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## khurasaan1

lionheart1 said:


> pakistan should become proper democracy , when a criminal like david hedley can escape on basic of religion so please dont bring religion in public affairs


You know why he eascaped ..cuz he is working for CIAz/Mosaadz....

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## DaRk WaVe

> sincere muslims!
> Islam is the system *Muslims r obliged to implement*,the msg is clear! get out n reject current system,work 4 khilafat



thats exactly when problems arise, why is it so hard for sincere Muslims to understand that they are not the only people living on this planet...

I guess do you even know what is that _state_ of countries which have actaully implemented this system of Allah?

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## NaqsheYaar

divya said:


> Then google search would be the best candidate for being the Caliph....


 
Hahaha, 
On a serious note though, I was referring to the Mahdi who would have dvine wisdom. I personally would not accept anybody as a Caliph who is only marginally more knowledgeable than me. I would only accept somebody as a Caliph if he would truely startle me with his brilliance and character.

Of course these are all fables to you guys, which they should be. So lets wait it out together.


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## divya

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> You are obviously an intelligent lady... How about putting in your real and if I may add decent pic of yourself in your avatar...
> 
> and how about you support us in our quest for Islam... after all even Gandhi Jee supported the Khilafat Movement!!!
> 
> Regards


 
No one has the problem with your quest for islam till you dont start treating your fellow non muslims not as sub humans or of some inferior category. that is the very foundation of the concept which you all discussing. All men and women are born equal. but the movement which are discussing itself discriminates them at very basic level of being muslims and non muslims. 

Islam bought light to the dark world but the times have changed and there is more light these days. going back to the rulings which are quite old will move back if not forward. for example Islam brought women rights when there were none but today women rights are much more than that time. implementing such a system would not provide rights to women but will actually take away rights from them

Secondly as far as caliphs go its very easy to day dream about the superhero characters but look around there is none. power corrupts man and no one absolutely on one is there in the entire pakistan who is capable of taking up that superhero position. 

People complain about democracy not being suited for the people of pakistan. the problem is not with democracy the problem is with people as otherwise it would have not worked in europe and else. 

as far as my avatar goes, its meant to agitate those religious fanatics who think women as some sort of a curse and masturbate for the same during the night. if it crosses the lines of indecency or you find my signature offensive feel free to contact the moderators.


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## ovarel

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Who is CHP?
> 
> Overal... do you understand the term rewriting history? This is what the British have done with massive propaganda against the Turks.



i know Turkish history.. we cant be sure Kemal was a Brits agent or he was just being manipulated etc..but its for sure that noone could establish his sovereignty without the permission of Brits..thats why Kemal was loyal to Brits in all aspects..i think they just used him because he was a radical westernizer and powerful..

Turkey's problem is kemalism.when kemalism gone,we wont have a militant secularism.

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

instead of following H.T or Dr. Israr. . . 

why don't we first improve ourselves. . . Keep aside all other organisations.

We have to follow the Islam of Holy Prophet (S.A.W) not H.T. The Holy Prophet (S.A.W) first preached Qalma and taught basics of Islam; then went for Jihad. . 

- - We today want to go directly for action and talk about Islam when we don't know the basics. .

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> instead of following H.T or Dr. Israr. . .
> 
> why don't we first improve ourselves. . . Keep aside all other organisations.
> 
> We have to follow the Islam of Holy Prophet (S.A.W) not H.T. The Holy Prophet (S.A.W) first preached Qalma and taught basics of Islam; then went for Jihad. .
> 
> - - We today want to go directly for action and talk about Islam when we don't know the basics. .


 
My dear its not easy to understand some of these things... You learn only when you sit with the learned and ask them questions... I had to climb mountains and cross oceans to meet certain people before i understood some of the very basic things... 

and for those who are into Mahdi... HT is where the Mahdi is... I dont know him personally, but then he does nt know he is the Mahdi either... 

as for all those who are complaining that we consider non muslims, women and animals inferior to us Muslims, well this is such a silly thing to say that it amounts to trolling...

The system of Allah is not about subjugating anyone... if people have a specific problem with something they have read they should bring that to discussion... complaining and whining that we are discriminating against this and that when all we are doing is discussing Caliphate is pointless trolling nothing more...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> Maybe u dont know the Bakground of the Hizb Tehrir...Im gonna prove it here insha-Allah that it is infact directly/indirectly Run by British MI6...by asking some of simple questions from u and showing u the resultz...
> 
> 1. Is any memeber of Hizb-Tehrir fighting in Afghanistan against the US/NATO ???
> 2. Does it support the Taliban fighterz against the US/NATO in Afghanistan morally and financially???
> I need clear answerz to them....


 
This is the problem with you bro... despite all your good intentions, you dont even know something so basic... 

Perhaps this news report will make you understand the silly nature of your questions on this issue... 

Police: legal to debate Muslim

Bro the reason why HT is allowed to operate in the west is because the intelligence agencies want to continue monitoring them... if they ban organizations such as HT, they will go underground and harder to detect and observe... 

Please come up with something substantive... or withdraw from your accusation... really I ll support you if you have genuine evidence...

And also... HT are very strict in their moral codes... so you cannot say that they do not have a spiritual side to them... The best you can say about them is that some of their members may not be who they seem to be... but then, we have hypocrites at all levels and like the Khawarij, we probably should just tolerate these hypocrites until they lose their grip and power...

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

learn what the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) has taught us. Follow his acts and perform Salat to strengthen them. Fast to learn patience. Give Zakat to keep away from World. 

" *It is only Shaitan that suggests to you the fear of his supporters, so fear them not but fear Me if you are believers.*" (3:175)

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> learn what the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) has taught us. Follow his acts and perform Salat to strengthen them. Fast to learn patience. Give Zakat to keep away from World.
> 
> " *It is only Shaitan that suggests to you the fear of his supporters, so fear them not but fear Me if you are believers.*" (3:175)


 
I do all of that my man... Been doing this for more than ten years now alhumdulilah... used to be a rebel without a cause... now Islam is the name of the rebellion itself...

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> I do all of that my man... Been doing this for more than ten years now alhumdulilah... used to be a rebel without a cause... now Islam is the name of the rebellion itself...


 
good! then I expect great things from you as Muhammad Bin Qasim did. . .


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## khurasaan1

ovarel said:


> i know Turkish history.. we cant be sure Kemal was a Brits agent or he was just being manipulated etc..but its for sure that noone could establish his sovereignty without the permission of Brits..thats why Kemal was loyal to Brits in all aspects..i think they just used him because he was a radical westernizer and powerful..
> 
> Turkey's problem is kemalism.when kemalism gone,we wont have a militant secularism.


 
Excellent bro...Excellent....U the man...Clearly showed everything about the Kemalz Covert gamez......thnx so much...


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> This is the problem with you bro... despite all your good intentions, you dont even know something so basic...
> 
> Perhaps this news report will make you understand the silly nature of your questions on this issue...
> 
> Police: legal to debate Muslim
> 
> *Bro the reason why HT is allowed to operate in the west is because the intelligence agencies want to continue monitoring them... if they ban organizations such as HT, they will go underground and harder to detect and observe... *Please come up with something substantive... or withdraw from your accusation... really I ll support you if you have genuine evidence...
> 
> And also... HT are very strict in their moral codes... so you cannot say that they do not have a spiritual side to them... The best you can say about them is that some of their members may not be who they seem to be... but then, we have hypocrites at all levels and like the Khawarij, we probably should just tolerate these hypocrites until they lose their grip and power...


 
Bro. I understand what ure trying to say...
but u are looking at the problem from only just one angle ...and I am looking it from every angle... In order to identify something we gotta check it from all 360 dgree angels so that nothing is hidden from US...
U think the West is dumb fool to let their enemies grow within their laps and later bite them...I am really amazed about ure logic...
I guess the secret agents of the MI6 in such organisations are making pplz getting satisfied by such kinda explanations..umm..
are u able to give me answers for these questions here..??
1. Is any memeber of Hizb-Tehrir fighting in Afghanistan against the US/NATO ???
2. Does it support the Taliban fighterz against the US/NATO in Afghanistan morally and financially???


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Did you check the link?

Your answer is there... HT supports the resistance against the US/NATO... 

I dont know financially... but I know morally...

As for enemies letting them grow... In Germany when they banned HT, the man who raided the members houses stated that they were putting a hold on to HT to make sure it does not become as powerful it has become in the UK... 

Try to understand... the west so far is managing to keep a sense of "civilization"... they hate Muslims but they also have certain rules and regulations that they adhere to... as long as HT remains non violent, they have no basis to ban them... 

anyway... suit yourself... I dont think you have presented good evidence against them... I would throw this case out if you came to my court room...

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## Ahmad

khurasaan1 said:


> are u able to give me answers for these questions here..??
> 1. Is any memeber of Hizb-Tehrir fighting in Afghanistan against the US/NATO ???
> 2. Does it support the Taliban fighterz against the US/NATO in Afghanistan morally and financially???


 
So, you are evaluating somebody's right and wrong based on the fact if they help the Taliban(killer of Afghans) or not? Very strange, MBQ gave a correct explaantion on why HT is allowed, it is because they dont want them to go underground.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> good! then I expect great things from you as Muhammad Bin Qasim did. . .


 
Allah chooses whom He likes... I ll do my bit even if I am not like Muhammad Bin Qasim... I m nothing special... all this talk here is to earn reward from Allah swt...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Ahmad said:


> So, you are evaluating somebody's right and wrong based on the fact if they help the Taliban(killer of Afghans) or not? Very strange, MBQ gave a correct explaantion on why HT is allowed, it is because they dont want them to go underground.


 
Thats right... they dont support the Taliban's distortion of islam either... but simply state that Afghans have all the right to resist the NATO/US forces if they want to...


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## Leader

Ahmad said:


> may i ask what is the difference between this version of khilafat and the other one?


 
no, Ahmad its not about the version, its about trust and many such things...


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## Majnun

khurasaan1 said:


> Nobody is gonna be law maker ..cuz we already got the law in the form of Quran and Sunnah...


 


Quran and Sunnat that nobody understands, and everybody gives a different meaning to?
Muslims can't even decide on one day for Eid, how will they decide on one interpretation of Quran to implement?

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## 1 ummah

NaqsheYaar said:


> A Caliph should be a person who should have answers to every question on the face of the earth... Any sort of inquiries not just Islamic or Shariah related.
> If that's not the case, he shouldn't be regarded as a Caliph I think.


 
i dont agree as we know a man came to prophet n asked about wat to grow or sumthin relating farmin,n prophet(p.b.u.h) told him that he(p.b.u.h) is not an expert in that so he shud do wat is gud...

i mean its not necessary to have complete knowledge abt each n every thing not related to hakoomt

but of course no ruler is all rounder...


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## 1 ummah

Majnun said:


> Who will govern here? Who will the lawmakers be?


 
laws r in book n hadiths!!!!!! plz go n read seerah n khulafa e rashideens gov


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## 1 ummah

humanfirst said:


> Suppose a caliph drinks alcohol,have hundreds of concubines and appoint his son as next caliph..What is in caliphate system to stop that unislamic practises of caliph?


 
the prophet commanded to *obey caliph as long as* he doesnt goes for kufr buwah( committing harram openly ) ..

in another hadith the prophet said highest jihad is to s*peak in front of a jabir hukmaran*

another..hamzah is the leader of shuhada n the 1 who *speaks against zalim hukmaran* n he is killed

so its *duty to account* n stand against wen caliph goes for sumthing anti Sharai! muslims have *power to question n remove * caliph on such bases

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## Majnun

1 ummah said:


> laws r in book n hadiths!!!!!! plz go n read seerah n khulafa e rashideens gov


 


Eid is decided by watching the moon, how come there is Eid on three different days?


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## 1 ummah

forcetrip said:


> Does anyone have a candidate or cadidates in mind?? Who will the people elect as the Caliphate?? obviously the guy opening these topics has someone in mind because for the last 3 months thats all he has been doing. I understand the love for a 1400 year old system he has but it is still going to be run by a person.


 
brother i mentioned n as u know this guy is not alone!! n is part of a party workin for same purpose from 60 years.. H.T AS DRAFTED CONSTITUTION OF ISLAMIC STATE AS WELL...HOMEWORK IS COMPLETE WE HAVE MANY CAPABLE PPL 

N AS SAID B4 FIRST CALIPH CANNOT BE OF GENERAL PUBLIC CHOISE (yaha itni behas kr rae ho khalifa choose krtay to WWIII shuru kr do gey)... if H.T gets nusrah than its ameer wud b first caliph ..later it can be votin( for candidates) by majlis a shura or general public.. we can follow any of the 3 methods adopted by prophet(p.b.u.h),abu bakr(r.a),omer (r.a)


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## NaqsheYaar

1 ummah said:


> i dont agree as we know a man came to prophet n asked about wat to grow or sumthin relating farmin,n prophet(p.b.u.h) told him that he(p.b.u.h) is not an expert in that so he shud do wat is gud...
> 
> i mean its not necessary to have complete knowledge abt each n every thing not related to hakoomt
> 
> but of course no ruler is all rounder...


Well my understanding is that the Mahdi would be so knowledgeable that Human history shoudn't have seen the likes of whom in the last one thousand years at least. He is described as the "Owner of Time", of course I don't completely know the meaning of this phrase...


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## Majnun

Oh, so Hizb-ut-Tahrir is involved. Presumably the capital of this new Khilafat will be London?

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## Majnun

NaqsheYaar said:


> He is described as the "Owner of Time", of course I don't completely know the meaning of this phrase...


 


Owner of Time ka matlab Waqt ka Malik

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## mehru

1 ummah said:


> APNA GHR??? Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq...... r not our?????
> the prophet said muslims r like a body!!!! koi apki tang tor raha hai,koi hath kaat raha ho...to ap ko kiya hr hissay ki takleef,fikr nai ho gi?????


 
Don't mind me bro but your line reminds me of something

*Rehnay ko ghar nahin he sara jahan hamara*

By the way, what are the views of these nations? Are they ready for this joint venture?

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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Maybe u dont know the Bakground of the Hizb Tehrir...Im gonna prove it here insha-Allah that it is infact directly/indirectly Run by British MI6...by asking some of simple questions from u and showing u the resultz...
> 
> 1. Is any memeber of Hizb-Tehrir fighting in Afghanistan against the US/NATO ???
> 2. Does it support the Taliban fighterz against the US/NATO in Afghanistan morally and financially???
> I need clear answerz to them....



*Hizb ut-Tahrir Media Office in Afghanistan

Press Release*

No: 4, 1431

Date: 1st Safar 1431 / 17Jan 2010 CE

*Misleading UN Report on Afghan Civilian Casualties attempts to turn public opinion against the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan*

On 13th January 2010 the United Nations announced that 2,412 civilians were killed in 2009, a 14 percent increase over the 2,118 who died in 2008. Nearly 70 percent of civilian deaths last year, or 1,630, were caused by the insurgents, the report found. NATO and allied Afghan forces were responsible for 25 percent of the deaths, or 596, the U.N. said, down from 39 percent, or 828, in 2008.

Showing the number of innocent civilians killed by occupying forces as low as ever is unacceptable. The incidents of Kunduz, Azizabad of Herat, Helmand, Farah, Nangarhar, Wardag, Ghazni, Logar and Kunar where thousands of women and children and elders were cold-bloodedly killed by the crusading armies while they slept show these figures to be flawed. Where people at wedding parties were killed by airstrikes, where women and children were burnt to the bone by white phosphoresced weapons and where these crusading troops practice their new weapons on the innocent people of Afghanistan.

There are similar incidents in numerous places across Afghanistan, where occupying troops have killed innocent civilians either by entering their homes, or forced their dogs to eat small women and children just to have fun. There are thousands of untold stories of these brutal activities of the crusaders, which the media have either no access to them or are forced not to publish.

Another survey commissioned by ABC News, the BBC and ARD German TV found that 42 percent of 1,534 Afghan respondents now blame the violence on the Taliban, up from 27 percent a year ago, while 17 percent blame the U.S., NATO or the Afghan security force, down from 36 percent. The poll, conducted last month, has an error margin of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

This poll is more propaganda from the western media. Indeed all the world has seen those demonstrations which have rallied against these colonialists crusading troops in each corner of Afghanistan.

The west is doing its best to either hide or minimize the figures and in turn add figures to the Mujahedeen's account, as well as trying to draw a bad picture of those Mujahedeen, who are fighting for defense of their loved ones, against these merciless enemies of not only Muslims but the whole of mankind.


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## Majnun

mehru said:


> Don't mind me bro but your line reminds me of something
> 
> *Rehnay ko ghar nahin he sara jahan hamara*
> 
> By the way, what are the views of these nations? Are they ready for this joint venture?


 


Of course not. Iraq and Palestine don't care about Pakistan or any merger with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey or Saudi Arabia.


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## Ahmad

> Misleading UN Report on Afghan Civilian Casualties attempts to turn public opinion against the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan



ummah1, is this the mujahideen you are talking about? The guy in uniform is your mujahid, and the other guy with bloody face is one of the other mujahids who was captured in that bank. This video is a mix of persian and pashtoo, let me know if you needed the translation, the bloody faced guy is saying quite horrific things.

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## Myth_buster_1

@ MBQ
Are you saying HuT is PERFECT? If the guy from HuT is claiming to be Mehdi tell me has he criticized HuT in anyways so far? I highly dough Medhi would use such a platform to restore Islam. 
Their is a wakeupproject forum where quite a lot of people have calmed to be Mehdi. Now this is joke now.


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## Myth_buster_1

Can HuT supporters provide references from Quran Hadis and Sunnah which gives rights to those in authority to forces laws on Muslims be it even right? 
Like the pardah case. If a Muslim women decides to go out in public sleeveless and in shorts (though she is covered from chest to knees) is it allowed to force her to cover those exposed parts? 
Islam needs to be restored in Muslim world from roots level and not from the top.


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## 1 ummah

Majnun said:


> Eid is decided by watching the moon, how come there is Eid on three different days?


 
exactly...that an issue H.T has raised on every eid!!! we celebrate eid with saudia(as they declare moon sighted) as prophet (p.b.u.h) said to fast n break(finish ramzan) on sightin moon,n other evidence wen ppl from other areas came n told they have sighted moon prophet declared eid...

BOOK: All Muslims are obliged to start Ramadhan on the same day

VIDEO: Moonsighting documentary (urdu)


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## 1 ummah

Ahmad said:


> ummah1, is this the mujahideen you are talking about? The guy in uniform is your mujahid, and the other guy with bloody face is one of the other mujahids who was captured in that bank. This video is a mix of persian and pashtoo, let me know if you needed the translation, the bloody faced guy is saying quite horrific things.


 
mujahideen hu r fighting nato !!... everybody knows hu r mujahideen n hu r agents


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## Mutee

Hello my brothers in Islam I feel very proud when I see some of you that includes mostly ppl commenting here ppl like mb mbq 1um Ny but have you all noticed that losing this battle of implementing shirat in Pakistan liberalism has taken over Pakistan only because of those bastards Taliban I see Islam bashing everywhere what should we do how do we respond to the atheists here who want to dominate us ????

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## 1 ummah

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Can HuT supporters provide references from Quran Hadis and Sunnah which gives rights to those in authority to forces laws on Muslims be it even right?
> Like the pardah case. If a Muslim women decides to go out in public sleeveless and in shorts (though she is covered from chest to knees) is it allowed to force her to cover those exposed parts?
> Islam needs to be restored in Muslim world from roots level and not from the top.


 
surah maida:
*And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are the Kafirun (i.e. disbelievers - of a lesser degree as they do not act on Allah's Laws * 44

. *And We ordained therein for them: "Life for life , eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it shall be for him an expiation. And whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers - of a lesser degree)*. 45

.* And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fasiqun (the rebellious i.e. disobedient (of a lesser degree) to Allah*47

*So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.* 48

*O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islam), Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the Way of Allah, and never afraid of the blame of the blamers. That is the Grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knower*.54

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## 1 ummah

Mutee said:


> Hello my brothers in Islam I feel very proud when I see some of you that includes mostly ppl commenting here ppl like mb mbq 1um Ny but have you all noticed that losing this battle of implementing shirat in Pakistan liberalism has taken over Pakistan only because of those bastards Taliban I see Islam bashing everywhere what should we do how do we respond to the atheists here who want to dominate us ????


 
its just on net u find such ppl...genrl public wants islam..wats the %age of liberals?? n if u ask ppl on roads abt taliban majority will favor those fighting NATO n call suicide bombers CIA agents so ummah is aware n ready..n 4get many here r not even muslims so their rejection doesnt matrs

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## Mutee

1 ummah said:


> its just on net u find such ppl...genrl public wants islam..wats the %age of liberals?? n if u ask ppl on roads abt taliban majority will favor those fighting NATO n call suicide bombers CIA agents so ummah is aware n ready..n 4get many here r not even muslims so their rejection doesnt matrs


 
I know they are not Muslims but Pakistani they are don't you think they should be taken on board and their fears about shirat are adressed properly ? some wud listen sum wud not my q is what about the ones who don't ???? we can't impose shria on them Islam doesn't allow that ? And brother this net effects lot of ppl trust me I don't see the willingness in ummah maybe it's just me ppl are very attached to this life style in my opinion

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## Mutee

go to any party any party especially in lahore and talk about Islam they say Saab app too fundo hoo gay gain kaminay Kahin Kay yes brother they call us fundo what does it even mean Fundo ya sub khud fundo hain shiteean Kay fundo


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## khurasaan1

Ahmad said:


> So, you are evaluating somebody's right and wrong based on the fact if they help the Taliban(killer of Afghans) or not? Very strange, MBQ gave a correct explaantion on why HT is allowed, it is because they dont want them to go underground.


 
Oh okay ..so in ure books the Talibans are not Afghans...very good conclusion...
I know u cant say good about Talibans cuz u sitting in UK....cuz then u cant make money over there...
Yes! everybody looking for money nowadayz...


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## khurasaan1

Majnun said:


> Oh, so Hizb-ut-Tahrir is involved. Presumably the capital of this new Khilafat will be London?


 
Yea..cuz nowadayz..British MI6 running for bringing Khilafat in the world...cuz nowadayz their old dirty trick of Democrazy isn't wrking anymore to fool the Muslimz around the world...


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> *Hizb ut-Tahrir Media Office in Afghanistan
> 
> Press Release*
> 
> No: 4, 1431
> 
> Date: 1st Safar 1431 / 17Jan 2010 CE
> 
> *Misleading UN Report on Afghan Civilian Casualties attempts to turn public opinion against the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan*
> 
> On 13th January 2010 the United Nations announced that 2,412 civilians were killed in 2009, a 14 percent increase over the 2,118 who died in 2008. Nearly 70 percent of civilian deaths last year, or 1,630, were caused by the insurgents, the report found. NATO and allied Afghan forces were responsible for 25 percent of the deaths, or 596, the U.N. said, down from 39 percent, or 828, in 2008.
> 
> Showing the number of innocent civilians killed by occupying forces as low as ever is unacceptable. The incidents of Kunduz, Azizabad of Herat, Helmand, Farah, Nangarhar, Wardag, Ghazni, Logar and Kunar where thousands of women and children and elders were cold-bloodedly killed by the crusading armies while they slept show these figures to be flawed. Where people at wedding parties were killed by airstrikes, where women and children were burnt to the bone by white phosphoresced weapons and where these crusading troops practice their new weapons on the innocent people of Afghanistan.
> 
> There are similar incidents in numerous places across Afghanistan, where occupying troops have killed innocent civilians either by entering their homes, or forced their dogs to eat small women and children just to have fun. There are thousands of untold stories of these brutal activities of the crusaders, which the media have either no access to them or are forced not to publish.
> 
> Another survey commissioned by ABC News, the BBC and ARD German TV found that 42 percent of 1,534 Afghan respondents now blame the violence on the Taliban, up from 27 percent a year ago, while 17 percent blame the U.S., NATO or the Afghan security force, down from 36 percent. The poll, conducted last month, has an error margin of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
> 
> This poll is more propaganda from the western media. Indeed all the world has seen those demonstrations which have rallied against these colonialists crusading troops in each corner of Afghanistan.
> 
> The west is doing its best to either hide or minimize the figures and in turn add figures to the Mujahedeen's account, as well as trying to draw a bad picture of those Mujahedeen, who are fighting for defense of their loved ones, against these merciless enemies of not only Muslims but the whole of mankind.


 
So this means that "Hizb Tehrir is doing Zubaani Jamma Khurch within Afghanistan" not actively fighting the brutal US/NATO forces killing innocent pplz there...????
and trying to get cheap publicity through Zubaani Jamma Khurch...ummm ..okay nice try ...


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## khurasaan1

NaqsheYaar said:


> Well my understanding is that the Mahdi would be so knowledgeable that Human history shoudn't have seen the likes of whom in the last one thousand years at least. He is described as the "Owner of Time", of course I don't completely know the meaning of this phrase...


 
In the last Thousand yearz...Hazrat Muzaddid Alf-e Saani came too ...he was as knowledgeable as will be Imaam Mahdi...


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> This is the problem with you bro... despite all your good intentions, you dont even know something so basic...
> 
> Perhaps this news report will make you understand the silly nature of your questions on this issue...
> 
> Police: legal to debate Muslim
> 
> Bro the reason why HT is allowed to operate in the west is because the intelligence agencies want to continue monitoring them... if they ban organizations such as HT, they will go underground and harder to detect and observe...
> 
> Please come up with something substantive... or withdraw from your accusation... really I ll support you if you have genuine evidence...
> 
> And also... HT are very strict in their moral codes... so you cannot say that they do not have a spiritual side to them... The best you can say about them is that some of their members may not be who they seem to be... but then, we have hypocrites at all levels and like the Khawarij, we probably should just tolerate these hypocrites until they lose their grip and power...


 
Bro. In Islam there is no "Zubaani Jamma Khurch" . When at the time of "Ghuz-e-Badr" 613 pplz joined Rasool Allah for the Ghazwa in the beginning. But 300 pplz left Rasool Allah PBUH on their way to the war(so actual pplz who joined the war were only 313). All these pplz claimed to be practical Muslims, they were praying and doing everything like all Muslims were doing. But why they didnt go to Ghazwa??..cuz they were "Munafiqeen" from inside...Rasool Allah told straight about them that they were "Munafiqeen"....just doing Zubaani Jamma Khurch and cant sacrifice their lives for the defence of Islam...
The Munafiqeen alwayz look for power and financial gains....When they sit with Kafirz they alwayz say "we with u" and when they sit with Muslims they claim we r Muslims...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Myth_buster_1 said:


> @ MBQ
> Are you saying HuT is PERFECT? If the guy from HuT is claiming to be Mehdi tell me has he criticized HuT in anyways so far? I highly dough Medhi would use such a platform to restore Islam.
> Their is a wakeupproject forum where quite a lot of people have calmed to be Mehdi. Now this is joke now.


 
Its not a joke... Mahdi whoever he is has to have certain qualities and one of them is his knowledge of the dunya and Islam... there is no other organization on earth which has the clarity about Islam as that of HuT... this is a bold claim and you would only know when you actively seek out these people and start your discussions with them... 

No one is perfect... Thats not what Islam is about anyway...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Can HuT supporters provide references from Quran Hadis and Sunnah which gives rights to those in authority to forces laws on Muslims be it even right?
> Like the pardah case. If a Muslim women decides to go out in public sleeveless and in shorts (though she is covered from chest to knees) is it allowed to force her to cover those exposed parts?
> Islam needs to be restored in Muslim world from roots level and not from the top.



1ummah gave you the answer to your query... I ll only point out to you that change and correction begins at the grass roots but can only be implemented by powers at the top... people adopt the deen of their rulers... I recommend you read ibn Khuldoon's Muqadimah to understand this issue a little more... 

Also Islam is not a personal religion... the nature of its laws are intrusive and demanding... If I have a piece of agri land I m not free to do whatever I want with it... I m bound by laws of Islam to pay the proper tax on it and keep it cultivated... this slogan of personal religion is that of the western secularists or their cheap copies in our country who have no idea about the difference between Islam and other religons...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro. In Islam there is no "Zubaani Jamma Khurch" . When at the time of "Ghuz-e-Badr" 613 pplz joined Rasool Allah for the Ghazwa in the beginning. But 300 pplz left Rasool Allah PBUH on their way to the war(so actual pplz who joined the war were only 313). All these pplz claimed to be practical Muslims, they were praying and doing everything like all Muslims were doing. But why they didnt go to Ghazwa??..cuz they were "Munafiqeen" from inside...Rasool Allah told straight about them that they were "Munafiqeen"....just doing Zubaani Jamma Khurch and cant sacrifice their lives for the defence of Islam...
> The Munafiqeen alwayz look for power and financial gains....When they sit with Kafirz they alwayz say "we with u" and when they sit with Muslims they claim we r Muslims...


 
pointless discussing with you... have it your way


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## Ahmad

1 ummah said:


> mujahideen hu r fighting nato !!... everybody knows hu r mujahideen n hu r agents


 
these are the same mujahideen who are fighting the americans, you can milion times try to use conspiracy theories and try your best to clean their bloody hands, but it wont change a think in reality. you cant hide the sun with 2 fingers.


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> pointless discussing with you... have it your way


 
So this means u got no evidences and facts to prove that...it is not run by MI6 .. then..??? cuz u were not able to answer any of my questions above..
U may not know but ..there r pplz who tracked so many international organisations and in the background found out the CIA/MI6/Mossad wrking and supporting the whole system..and in front using the ordinary Muslims without even their knowings..
U know if we cant identify munafiqeenz in us we wont be able to defeat the Satanic powerz...
Maybe u dont know ..but there is one hadith..."when the Shaitaan comes in the disguise of a aalim/scholar then this is the worst strike of him on the imaan of Muslims, and its extensively hard to get away from it..but only the fazal of Allah SBWT saves the Muslim" cuz this is so treachearous strike...and fools everybody..
my 2 cents bro..


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Its not a joke... Mahdi whoever he is has to have certain qualities and one of them is his knowledge of the dunya and Islam... there is no other organization on earth which has the clarity about Islam as that of HuT... this is a bold claim and you would only know when you actively seek out these people and start your discussions with them...
> 
> No one is perfect... Thats not what Islam is about anyway...


 
Okay..umm
can u give me details...??
who is the organizer of HUT, where he lives right now..??
what is his source of income??
and its top leader ssources of income??
anyone in US right now?


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## Ahmad

khurasaan1 said:


> So this means u got no evidences and facts to prove that...it is not run by MI6 .. then..???


 
sorry for jumping between you 2. If you cant prove that someone is not an agent, it doesnt mean they are agent. i am by no means a fan of HT, but lets be fair about what we say.

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## khurasaan1

Ahmad said:


> sorry for jumping between you 2. If you cant prove that someone is not an agent, it doesnt mean they are agent. i am by no means a fan of HT, but lets be fair about what we say.


Im happy that u asked me that kinda question...
U might be knowing ..that misguiding using somebodyz believes, make groups in pplz/Muslims , take advantage of it to make money or achieve power is the job of an agent....
and I am not seeing any thing practical from HUT in the defence of ordinary innocent Muslims literally getting killed by US/NATO in Afghanistan or Iraq or Libya or anywhereelse everyday....except they/HUT just doing Zubaani Jamma Khurch...like our evilz politicianz cuz they do it everyday and we know that they r all munafiqeenz/agents...and agents of Devilz enforced on us..


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## Myth_buster_1

khurasaan1 said:


> Okay..umm
> can u give me details...??
> who is the organizer of HUT, where he lives right now..??
> what is his source of income??
> and its top leader ssources of income??
> anyone in US right now?


 
One does not has to live in western nation to be someone's agent. He/she can live in Muslim land and work as a agent all his life.

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## Ahmad

khurasaan1 said:


> Im happy that u asked me that kinda question...
> U might be knowing ..that misguiding using somebodyz believes, make groups in pplz/Muslims , take advantage of it to make money or achieve power is the job of an agent....
> and I am not seeing any thing practical from HUT in the defence of ordinary innocent Muslims literally getting killed by US/NATO in Afghanistan or Iraq or Libya or anywhereelse everyday....except they/HUT just doing Zubaani Jamma Khurch...like our evilz politicianz cuz they do it everyday and we know that they r all munafiqeenz/agents...and agents of Devilz enforced on us..


 
very week argument. i am glad that they are not taking any practical step to make more mess in Afghanistan the same way the Taliban and Al Qaeda is doing, at least this is something positve i have seen in them.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Ahmad said:


> very week argument. i am glad that they are not taking any practical step to make more mess in Afghanistan the same way the Taliban and Al Qaeda is doing, at least this is something positve i have seen in them.


 
They are opposed to the foreign troops there but do not believe in violence as a solution... a limited response to the NATO/US atrocities and the right to defend oneself is a universal right that does not and should not require us to demand it... In any country, if a person is attacked by someone he has the right to defend himself and if he kills someone while defending himself, he is not called the aggressor or murderer... 

I know a few Afghans who run HT in Afghanistan and they are the most educated and enlightened and decent people I have met in my life...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> So this means u got no evidences and facts to prove that...it is not run by MI6 .. then..??? cuz u were not able to answer any of my questions above..
> U may not know but ..there r pplz who tracked so many international organisations and in the background found out the CIA/MI6/Mossad wrking and supporting the whole system..and in front using the ordinary Muslims without even their knowings..
> U know if we cant identify munafiqeenz in us we wont be able to defeat the Satanic powerz...
> Maybe u dont know ..but there is one hadith..."when the Shaitaan comes in the disguise of a aalim/scholar then this is the worst strike of him on the imaan of Muslims, and its extensively hard to get away from it..but only the fazal of Allah SBWT saves the Muslim" cuz this is so treachearous strike...and fools everybody..
> my 2 cents bro..


 
I know this much... when I see people who do not want bloodshed and act as good decent Muslims and are knowledgeable in how an Islamic State should run and how to account governments... I dont need to find out if they are being run by MI6 or not... because MI6 is not interested in these things... if their top leader is an agent, we can simply remove him after we have evidence against him... without evidence everything is just hoo haa and talk of creating chaos... 

Also Satan can fool anyone but he cannot fool those who take the trouble to study and research topics and issues meticulously...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> Okay..umm
> can u give me details...??
> who is the organizer of HUT, where he lives right now..??
> what is his source of income??
> and its top leader ssources of income??
> anyone in US right now?


 
Leader of the group is Ata Abu Rashta who is an engineer by profession and also an Alim... 

He lives in Jordan...

His source of income is probably his job... he was in jail for two years for speaking against the Jordanian government in the past...

HT operates openly in the US...

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## Ahmad

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> They are opposed to the foreign troops there but do not believe in violence as a solution... a limited response to the NATO/US atrocities and the right to defend oneself is a universal right that does not and should not require us to demand it... In any country, if a person is attacked by someone he has the right to defend himself and if he kills someone while defending himself, he is not called the aggressor or murderer...
> 
> I know a few Afghans who run HT in Afghanistan and they are the most educated and enlightened and decent people I have met in my life...


 
if we are ever to speak about atrocities, we need to first look at the taliban who are and were(before and post 9/11) killing thousands and thousnads on daily basis, they are not the defenders of the country as they are themsleves the puppets and have foreign support. HT might have some followers in Afghanistan(very limited, as it is the first time i have heard they have memgbers in affghanistan), but as long as they remain peaceful, dont kill people and dont preach violence, then i dont see a single problem why shouldnt be there.

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## araz

Imkplementation of Allah's system will not happen in Pakistan unless there is a revolution. The reason is that people have moved so far away from the religion that they can no longer differentiate between right and wrong. So whereas we have the westernized elite on the one hand, with their wine women and song philosophy, we have the jahil who prostrates in front of Graves, and asks dead people to intercede from him without realizing or believing that he is committing shirk. Then in the religious echelon you have various schools that have become so rigid in their philosophy that they are unwilling to listen to anyone else. So Ulemas differences get settled on the street with their poor pawns dying and killing their brothers, without realizing that this is the greatest of sins. Then we have the vested interests like the so called taliban who have a totally distorted view of islam and jehad.
Even the Tablighi jamaat, adheres so strictly to the two or three books that they prescribe to that there is no flexibility within the system.So where do you start??? It is easier said than done.
Araz

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## Myth_buster_1

araz said:


> Imkplementation of Allah's system will not happen in Pakistan unless there is a revolution. The reason is that people have moved so far away from the religion that they can no longer differentiate between right and wrong. So whereas we have the westernized elite on the one hand, with their wine women and song philosophy, we have the jahil who prostrates in front of Graves, and asks dead people to intercede from him without realizing or believing that he is committing shirk. Then in the religious echelon you have various schools that have become so rigid in their philosophy that they are unwilling to listen to anyone else. So Ulemas differences get settled on the street with their poor pawns dying and killing their brothers, without realizing that this is the greatest of sins. Then we have the vested interests like the so called taliban who have a totally distorted view of islam and jehad.
> Even the Tablighi jamaat, adheres so strictly to the two or three books that they prescribe to that there is no flexibility within the system.So where do you start??? It is easier said than done.
> Araz


 
Well said bro
but who is going to bring this revolution? Few Saudi puppet leaders like Zaid Hamid and his likes? Or the divided Awam? 
People have to admit this but Islam today in Pakistan is more like a cultural thing which is quite sad.

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## araz

Let me ask you a question instead? Who brought the revolution in Egypt, or Tunisia?. It is always the people who come out and force the Government to depart and then the leaders of that movement will take over power and establish islamic system. That is if they are inclined towards islam.
Araz


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> One does not has to live in western nation to be someone's agent. He/she can live in Muslim land and work as a agent all his life.


 
but we can find out from their sources of income...most of the time....


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Leader of the group is Ata Abu Rashta who is an engineer by profession and also an Alim...
> 
> He lives in Jordan...
> 
> His source of income is probably his job... he was in jail for two years for speaking against the Jordanian government in the past...
> 
> HT operates openly in the US...


 
did he ever travelled to any westrn country..?
or ever affiliated himself with any other organisation before..??
what kind of engineer he is..?
what company he wrking with..?
is he wrking with private compny..?
Where did he studied to become Aalim...?
does he got BSc. eng or MSc. Eng degree..?
plz dont get mad for me to ask so many questionz..
Another thing...HT operating openly in US ..means they got CIA clearance too...umm...
any contact number u got over there in US for HUT..? if available..


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> I know this much... when I see people who do not want bloodshed and act as good decent Muslims and are knowledgeable in how an Islamic State should run and how to account governments... I dont need to find out if they are being run by MI6 or not... because MI6 is not interested in these things... if their top leader is an agent, we can simply remove him after we have evidence against him... without evidence everything is just hoo haa and talk of creating chaos...
> 
> Also Satan can fool anyone but he cannot fool those who take the trouble to study and research topics and issues meticulously...


 
I understand what u saying ..but by the time we will find evidence against the person or top leaderz ..the MI6 already would have done their job..destabilization of the countries..etc etc...dvide pplz into different groups and make them fight against each other ..so that the satanic powers and control them easily..

There have been MI6 officers in so many places for the last 200 yearz working as Imaams and misleading pplz for decades..and nobody was able to find out about them..until they went back and sent letterz to the pplz that they were not Muslims return back ure 30yrz or 40yrz of prayes u did behind us...
so how u gonna beat a professional..cuz ordinary pplz are not AAlims and how they gonna catch them..???
How u know MI6 areas of interests..???


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## 1 ummah

Mutee said:


> I know they are not Muslims but Pakistani they are don't you think they should be taken on board and their fears about shirat are adressed properly ? some wud listen sum wud not my q is what about the ones who don't ???? we can't impose shria on them Islam doesn't allow that ? And brother this net effects lot of ppl trust me I don't see the willingness in ummah maybe it's just me ppl are very attached to this life style in my opinion


 
we have to live according to sharia thats obligation....ppl do things even if they dont want to ...

zia thing! all women did start coverin !

today we pay +300 tax,buy petrol on high prices,..,..,...n do watever gov says!! dont we?? so ppl will do even if not willing,but soon they will be or young generation n next gen,will b ok as khilafat will give islamic concepts ,culturing ..ppl will start understanding aqeeda,purpose of life, farziyat ..inshallah!...as hadith tells..

."*phir naboowat k naksh e qadam pr khilafat qaim ho gi*" musnad ahmd

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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro. In Islam there is no "Zubaani Jamma Khurch" . When at the time of "Ghuz-e-Badr" 613 pplz joined Rasool Allah for the Ghazwa in the beginning. But 300 pplz left Rasool Allah PBUH on their way to the war(so actual pplz who joined the war were only 313). All these pplz claimed to be practical Muslims, they were praying and doing everything like all Muslims were doing. But why they didnt go to Ghazwa??..cuz they were "Munafiqeen" from inside...Rasool Allah told straight about them that they were "Munafiqeen"....just doing Zubaani Jamma Khurch and cant sacrifice their lives for the defence of Islam...
> The Munafiqeen alwayz look for power and financial gains....When they sit with Kafirz they alwayz say "we with u" and when they sit with Muslims they claim we r Muslims...


 
did u read wat "ahmad" is comentin abt H.T suport mujahideen??? u callin it zubani... n he tryin to prove us wrong other way!! 

y H.T is zubani coz H.T follows quran n sunnah strictly n the

*prophet never fougth b4 est islamic state, ghazwa badr after est state in madina*!!..

* jihad is ordered byhead of state*,
but yes ppl have to fight back those who try to invade, but H.T DOESNT ASKS members to do that,they stick to the rules!!


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## 1 ummah

Ahmad said:


> these are the same mujahideen who are fighting the americans, you can milion times try to use conspiracy theories and try your best to clean their bloody hands, but it wont change a think in reality. you cant hide the sun with 2 fingers.


 
mr.ahmad they r not same dead bodies in sawat ,non muslim disguised as taliban,n many such proves, n now ramond davis nay phatta huwa bhanda dubara phor dia, his connection wid TTP an all!!


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## Myth_buster_1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Its not a joke... Mahdi whoever he is has to have certain qualities and one of them is his knowledge of the dunya and Islam... there is no other organization on earth which has the clarity about Islam as that of HuT... this is a bold claim and you would only know when you actively seek out these people and start your discussions with them...
> 
> No one is perfect... Thats not what Islam is about anyway...



My point is Mehdi has the knowledge and he will not spare anything like HuT without criticizing it. HuT is not clean of corruption and agents so i dough that person from HuT claiming to be Mehdi is true.

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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Okay..umm
> can u give me details...??
> who is the organizer of HUT, where he lives right now..??
> what is his source of income??
> and its top leader ssources of income??
> anyone in US right now?



i wonder if u r spy tryin 2 know details abt H.T!!

STILL
Profile: Ameer of Hizb ut-Tahrir

The Ameer of Hizb ut-Tahrir is the Alim, Sheikh Ata Abu Rashta (full name Sheikh Abu Yasin Ata ibn Khalil ibn Ahmad ibn Abdul Qadir al-Khatib Abu Rashta). He is an Islamic jurist, scholar and writer. 

Sheikh Ata Abu Rashta was born into an observant Islamic family in 1943 in the small village of Ra'na in the Hebron area of the Palestinian territories. He observed first-hand the Israeli destruction of Ra'na in 1948 and thereafter moved with his family to a refugee camp near Hebron.

His primary and middle education was completed at the refugee camp. He subsequently obtained his first certificate of secondary education in 1960 from the Al Hussein Bin Ali school in Hebron and later completed his general secondary certificate at the Ibrahimiya school in Jerusalem in 1961. Sheikh Ata Abu Rashta then joined the Faculty of Engineering at Cairo University in Egypt and graduated in civil engineering in 1966. After graduating, Sheikh Ata Abu Rashta worked in a number of Arab countries as* a civil engineer *and wrote a book concerning the calculation of quantities in relation to the construction of buildings and roads. 

Sheikh Ata Abu Rashta joined Hizb ut-Tahrir in the mid-1950s and subsequently carried out party activism throughout the Arab world. *He worked closely with Sheikh Taqiuddin an-Nabhani, the founder of Hizb ut-Tahrir and Sheikh Abdul Qadeem Zallum who became the leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir following Sheikh Nabhani's death in 1977. In the 1980s he was a leading member of Hizb ut-Tahrir in Jordan and was appointed as Hizb ut-Tahrir's official spokesperson.*

Sheikh Ata Abu Rashta played a prominent role in Jordan during the Persian Gulf War when he convened press conferences, lectures and debates at public venues throughout the country. He debated the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait at the Jerusalem Mosque in Amman at which he delivered a lecture entitled The Neo-Crusader Assault on the Arabian Peninsula and the Gulf. He was regularly detained by the Jordanian authorities.

In 1994, in an interview, Sheikh Ata Abu Rashta said, "*The establishment of the Caliphate is now a general demand among Muslims, who yearn for this: the call for Islamic government (the Caliphate) is widespread in Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Pakistan, Algeria and so on. Before Hizb al-Tahrir launched its careeer the subject of the Caliphate was unheard of. However, the party has succeeded in establishing its intellectual leadership, and now everyone has confidence in its ideas, and talks about it: this is clear from the media worldwide"*.

Abu Rashta became the global leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir on 13th April 2003 following the death of Sheikh Abdul Qadeem Zallum.

Since assuming the leadership of Hizb ut-Tahrir, has spoken at conferences across the world including Indonesia, Pakistan and Yemen.

His writings include Tayseer fi usool at-tafseer surah al-baqarah (2007), Economic crises - the reality and the perspective of Islam and Tayseer al Wusool min al-Usool.

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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> did u read wat "ahmad" is comentin abt H.T suport mujahideen??? u callin it zubani... n he tryin to prove us wrong other way!!
> 
> y H.T is zubani coz H.T follows quran n sunnah strictly n the
> 
> *prophet never fougth b4 est islamic state, ghazwa badr after est state in madina*!!..
> 
> * jihad is ordered byhead of state*,
> but yes ppl have to fight back those who try to invade, but H.T DOESNT ASKS members to do that,they stick to the rules!!


 So the Talibaans fighting in Afghanistan against US/NATO are not doing Jihad..u mean???
and what rules HUT stick to? When Quran clearly orders Muslims to go out to fight against the pplz who come and kill innocent Muslims and capture their property...??? So ure rules are to just sit and watch and stick to ure rules of no fight...and let non-Muslims/Yahood/Nasaaraa kill all the Muslims and occupy all their lands and force them to adopt unIslamic way of life...??? and u just be sitting & waiting to get govt or power....???
Excellent rules given by MI6...bro. excellent rules...
I guess u guyz/HUT dont read for the Ayyats of Jihad in Quran and dont teach to the fellow Muslims...cuz then HUT cant exist in the West. just stick to the MI6 rules...
I hope u dont mind..but Im saying whatever is true...U can see by ureself in Holy Quran....dont even trust me and read and verify ureself....
Quran has given such formulas that u can identify munafiqs from sincere through them...Alhamdolillah...


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> *prophet never fougth b4 est islamic state, ghazwa badr after est state in madina*!!..* jihad is ordered byhead of state*,


 
Rasool Allah (SAW) faught when the Kuffaar sent Lashkars to kill and destroy Muslims and their properties...even if it was the time of Badr, Ohad or Khandaq...he never needed before to fight Kuffaar... cuz they never invaded like that to kill Muslims...
another thing...u dont think that Muslims already eastablished Islamic state in Afghanistan and they were implementing Islamic laws there ..then US/NATO invaded and killed all innocent Muslims and enforcing their laws on the Afghan pplz. whoever dont obey them they either kill them or put them in jail....


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## khurasaan1

Ahmad said:


> very week argument. i am glad that they are not taking any practical step to make more mess in Afghanistan the same way the Taliban and Al Qaeda is doing, at least this is something positve i have seen in them.


 I know u cant talk against US/NATO cuz then u cant make no money in UK or might face extradition...
Everybody knowz Alqaida is CIA secret terrorist department...
Talibaans are freedom fighterz from the crusaderz...and the real heroes of their country and Islam....I salute them that they are never sell outs like our leaderz and the religious organisations.....who alwayz try to fool us in the name of Islam...
For Islam "zubani Jamma Khurch" dont work anymore...
whoever dont help our Afghan brothers to get rid of the crusaderz/Kafireenz there are infact traitorz of Islam and Muslim Umma...


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## Mutee

I hope and pray they do that's the best path for all of us !!

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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> So the Talibaans fighting in Afghanistan against US/NATO are not doing Jihad..u mean???
> and what rules HUT stick to? When Quran clearly orders Muslims to go out to fight against the pplz who come and kill innocent Muslims and capture their property...??? So ure rules are to just sit and watch and stick to ure rules of no fight...and let non-Muslims/Yahood/Nasaaraa kill all the Muslims and occupy all their lands and force them to adopt unIslamic way of life...??? and u just be sitting & waiting to get govt or power....???
> Excellent rules given by MI6...bro. excellent rules...
> I guess u guyz/HUT dont read for the Ayyats of Jihad in Quran and dont teach to the fellow Muslims...cuz then HUT cant exist in the West. just stick to the MI6 rules...
> I hope u dont mind..but Im saying whatever is true...U can see by ureself in Holy Quran....dont even trust me and read and verify ureself....
> Quran has given such formulas that u can identify munafiqs from sincere through them...Alhamdolillah...


 
wat kind of islamic state was in afghanistan??..

the line u never highlighted..*.fight back to those who invade*..that is y we support mujahids...n 
Before migrating to Madinah, Muslims endured many years of persecution at the hands of the unbelieving Quraysh, including torture, murder and embargo. In Madinah Muslims found themselves secure and safe and hence the divine decree of jihaad came in case of any further harassment by kuffaar...n muslims planed to attack caravan,they started the battle!!!..that is y H.T believes in est state 1st n deal with all issues like prophet did

as u can see mujahids r not abl to solve issue completely though givin hard time...but can u see how imp it is to have state,complete power to solve issues??

H.T is a political party, workin 4 khilafat following The Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) ,as he limited his struggle for the establishment of the Islamic State to the* intellectual and political domains*

its not just jihad we dont do yet,we neither solvin bijli pani gas bohrans,poverty, etc etc issues!! we stick to est of state as it was wat prophet (p.b.u.h) did 1st of all!

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## 1 ummah

araz said:


> Imkplementation of Allah's system will not happen in Pakistan unless there is a revolution. The reason is that people have moved so far away from the religion that they can no longer differentiate between right and wrong. So whereas we have the westernized elite on the one hand, with their wine women and song philosophy, we have the jahil who prostrates in front of Graves, and asks dead people to intercede from him without realizing or believing that he is committing shirk. Then in the religious echelon you have various schools that have become so rigid in their philosophy that they are unwilling to listen to anyone else. So Ulemas differences get settled on the street with their poor pawns dying and killing their brothers, without realizing that this is the greatest of sins. Then we have the vested interests like the so called taliban who have a totally distorted view of islam and jehad.
> Even the Tablighi jamaat, adheres so strictly to the two or three books that they prescribe to that there is no flexibility within the system.So where do you start??? It is easier said than done.
> Araz


 
yes 17th april step towards revolution!!..


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> wat kind of islamic state was in afghanistan??..


 
So in ure view The Talibaans never eastablished Islamic state in Afghanistan...???Okay... so HT dont even support the Islam Talibaans brought in Afghanistan...whereevr there r clear Hadith about the pplz of Khurasaan that Rasool Allah said" The pplz of Khurasaan(nowadayz Talibaan) will bring back my Islam when it will be totally forgotten in the world practically"
Another thing the Talibaans are never tolerable by the West cuz Quran sayz they will never be friends to Muslims....Quran sayz the right thing 
The HT is tolerable to the West cuz they r infact not according to Quran...U suppose to be enemy to the West or intolerable to them in order to be on the right path...The HT is trying to be friendly with the West in Afghanistan(which is against the sayingz of Quran) so they cant be the friendz of Islam...just trying to fool the ordinary Muslimz and use them..for their own political gains..
Talibaans have already eastablished Islamic state and they fighting for the supremacy of Islamic law with 80 to 90% territory under their control with Allahz Nusrat(Alhamdolillah)...and nobody in the world is recognizing it..cuz the whole world(western) is evil(as clearly defined in Quran) ...
and HT is not even supporting the Talibaans in Afghanistan practically who got invaded..and they r our Muslim brotherz so what kinda practical Islam these HT pplz following ??...more probably the (Islam of MI6/Mosaad Version)..which will be under their control and that will alwayz be against Quran...
If HUT cant helppractically our Afghan brotherz in implementing Shariah and kicking out these Kafireenz from there...it is surely working for Shaitaan...(Mosaaad/MI6).. cuz it is just doing Zubaani Jamma Khurch...and practically fooling ordinary Muslims..


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> yes 17th april step towards revolution!!..


 
Yes! to destabilize Pakistan ..and during the Chaos the Mosaad and CIA/MI6 will take advantage and attacks the Nuclear assests over here to finish them ..so there will be no threat to the Greater Israel....
Bro. pplz are no more dummy to get fooled nowadayz...
plz dont be mad..but this is what is going in the background and Quran has clearly mentioned how the enemies of Islam works ..most probable tool is Munafqat...bro. Munafqat...


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## NaqsheYaar

In my opinion, HuT's ideas are similar to late Dr. Israr's, for which they win my partial vote. Though I have my doubts about it, as we are practically living in the end of days period where we know things would be all so mixed up and compounded that it would become very difficult to distinguish right from worng... As we can see in the case of Muslim Brotherhood as how foolishly it is playing into the hands of Western/Israeli intel agencies in the Middle East today.
I don't have any doubts personally, that the events would really speed up henceforth culminating in the Fall of all Middle Eastern states (including Hejaz, Saudi Arabia), substantial weekening or complete breakdown of the Dollar and ensuing Global Economic Crisis [And this should all be achieved by the start of 2012]. So I think I would adopt the policy of "wait and see" to decide which side I am on. Of course individual struggle continues to the grave, so that should never cease in anybody's case.
My more than two cents 

PS. Also I would not like to be part of any group that does not take the whole Ummah on board, and instead follows their own particular teachings.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> I understand what u saying ..but by the time we will find evidence against the person or top leaderz ..the MI6 already would have done their job..destabilization of the countries..etc etc...dvide pplz into different groups and make them fight against each other ..so that the satanic powers and control them easily..
> 
> There have been MI6 officers in so many places for the last 200 yearz working as Imaams and misleading pplz for decades..and nobody was able to find out about them..until they went back and sent letterz to the pplz that they were not Muslims return back ure 30yrz or 40yrz of prayes u did behind us...
> so how u gonna beat a professional..cuz ordinary pplz are not AAlims and how they gonna catch them..???
> How u know MI6 areas of interests..???


 
You are being very silly here...

Yaar... dont you realize that no matter what the MI 6 or CIA does, we have a yardstick to detect right and wrong and that is Quran and Sunnah... If the imam says something and does not give us daleel for what he is saying we know he is talking nonsense... Ajeeb... this is such a simple thing that you overlook...

As for how we know MI 6 areas of interest... you really do ask many questions... before I answer you remember that I m not working for MI6 BUT heres a little secret...

We may (or may not) have people working for us inside MI 6 

lol evil laughter!!!!

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> So in ure view The Talibaans never eastablished Islamic state in Afghanistan...???Okay... so HT dont even support the Islam Talibaans brought in Afghanistan...whereevr there r clear Hadith about the pplz of Khurasaan that Rasool Allah said" The pplz of Khurasaan(nowadayz Talibaan) will bring back my Islam when it will be totally forgotten in the world practically"
> Another thing the Talibaans are never tolerable by the West cuz Quran sayz they will never be friends to Muslims....Quran sayz the right thing
> The HT is tolerable to the West cuz they r infact not according to Quran...U suppose to be enemy to the West or intolerable to them in order to be on the right path...The HT is trying to be friendly with the West in Afghanistan(which is against the sayingz of Quran) so they cant be the friendz of Islam...just trying to fool the ordinary Muslimz and use them..for their own political gains..
> Talibaans have already eastablished Islamic state and they fighting for the supremacy of Islamic law with 80 to 90% territory under their control with Allahz Nusrat(Alhamdolillah)...and nobody in the world is recognizing it..cuz the whole world(western) is evil(as clearly defined in Quran) ...
> and HT is not even supporting the Talibaans in Afghanistan practically who got invaded..and they r our Muslim brotherz so what kinda practical Islam these HT pplz following ??...more probably the (Islam of MI6/Mosaad Version)..which will be under their control and that will alwayz be against Quran...
> If HUT cant helppractically our Afghan brotherz in implementing Shariah and kicking out these Kafireenz from there...it is surely working for Shaitaan...(Mosaaad/MI6).. cuz it is just doing Zubaani Jamma Khurch...and practically fooling ordinary Muslims..


 
I just read one line of the above and wrote the following...

No we do not support the Taliban's so called Islamic State... because in an Islamic State beards are not going to be measured with a lantern and women will be allowed to study and work... 

pathetic arguments mate... It seems like you are the one working for MI6 stating so many nonsensical things like Taliban established Islamic State... what a joke

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

NaqsheYaar said:


> In my opinion, HuT's ideas are similar to late Dr. Israr's, for which they win my partial vote. Though I have my doubts about it, as we are practically living in the end of days period where we know things would be all so mixed up and compounded that it would become very difficult to distinguish right from worng... As we can see in the case of Muslim Brotherhood as how foolishly it is playing into the hands of Western/Israeli intel agencies in the Middle East today.
> I don't have any doubts personally, that the events would really speed up henceforth culminating in the Fall of all Middle Eastern states (including Hejaz, Saudi Arabia), substantial weekening or complete breakdown of the Dollar and ensuing Global Economic Crisis [And this should all be achieved by the start of 2012]. So I think I would adopt the policy of "wait and see" to decide which side I am on. Of course individual struggle continues to the grave, so that should never cease in anybody's case.
> My more than two cents
> 
> PS. Also I would not like to be part of any group that does not take the whole Ummah on board, and instead follows their own particular teachings.


 
Time for wait is over... You need to join the call for the reestablishment of the Caliphate... no two ways about it...

I ll tell you a little secret... Rasool Allah saw told us that the next Caliphate will be upon the method of the Nabooah... this means that although our enemies are trying to infiltrate us at multiple levels, no matter what they do, the end result will be a Caliphate on the method of the Prophethood... 

You dont have to trust me... You should trust the words of our master Muhammad saw...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

and while we are discussing this the pimps of America and Britain ordered Pakistan police to storm the press club conference in Islamabad... Probably because thoughts and press is free in our country... haha

They think that these petty actions will stop the Caliphate


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## NaqsheYaar

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Time for wait is over... You need to join the call for the reestablishment of the Caliphate... no two ways about it...
> 
> I ll tell you a little secret... Rasool Allah saw told us that the next Caliphate will be upon the method of the Nabooah... this means that although our enemies are trying to infiltrate us at multiple levels, no matter what they do, the end result will be a Caliphate on the method of the Prophethood...
> 
> You dont have to trust me... You should trust the words of our master Muhammad saw...


I agree with the Hadith mashAllah!!
BUT I have something more to say...!!
Personally Dr. Israr was the only Islamic scholar for me who made most sense to me, and I thought he was very convincing. Then I really got interested (though not practically in terms of Dhikr and so on, but intellectually) in Sufism, which was because I was *overwhelmed* by Imam Ghazali's works (though I have read very little of him). So now fortunately I have found another great Ustad, Prof. Ahmed Rafique Akhter (And I actually want to go and kiss his hands, I am a very proud person and I have never felt like that for anyone except for my parents).
So Prof. sb. says (AFA I understand him) that Taliban or any other group hasn't been successful and won't be successful in alleviating the pains of the Ummah because Allah hasn't 'sanctioned' them. He cites the story of Prophet Moses, when Allah told him to go and dishonor Qaume Aaleen (Pharoh). Moses said that he was alone and that he had killed a man from them, how would he ever be able to fight and succeed against them. Then Allah says that "Moosa kia tumhein hum pe aetebar nahin hai, kia hum tumhare saath nahin hain...?". And so Moosa agreed and then we know what happened.

So for me personally, I don't want to be part of a destined-to-be-failed mission. I want to succeed and I don't want to waste my life or time. So I want to be very sure. I would again say wait for 2-3 more years. That doesn't mean we should relax, as life is an endless struggle anyway...


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## Sayonara

the shariat is the only solution for pakistan... but 60s yrs have passed and still trying to implement the correct system in pakistan...

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

What is the 'System of Allah'?

If anyone has posted the details of how this system will run, please point me to the relevant post.

Without details and the outline of a 'legal framework', this is just hot air and pointless rhetoric.

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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> So in ure view The Talibaans never eastablished Islamic state in Afghanistan...???Okay... so HT dont even support the Islam Talibaans brought in Afghanistan...whereevr there r clear Hadith about the pplz of Khurasaan that Rasool Allah said" The pplz of Khurasaan(nowadayz Talibaan) will bring back my Islam when it will be totally forgotten in the world practically"
> Another thing the Talibaans are never tolerable by the West cuz Quran sayz they will never be friends to Muslims....Quran sayz the right thing
> The HT is tolerable to the West cuz they r infact not according to Quran...U suppose to be enemy to the West or intolerable to them in order to be on the right path...The HT is trying to be friendly with the West in Afghanistan(which is against the sayingz of Quran) so they cant be the friendz of Islam...just trying to fool the ordinary Muslimz and use them..for their own political gains..
> Talibaans have already eastablished Islamic state and they fighting for the supremacy of Islamic law with 80 to 90% territory under their control with Allahz Nusrat(Alhamdolillah)...and nobody in the world is recognizing it..cuz the whole world(western) is evil(as clearly defined in Quran) ...
> and HT is not even supporting the Talibaans in Afghanistan practically who got invaded..and they r our Muslim brotherz so what kinda practical Islam these HT pplz following ??...more probably the (Islam of MI6/Mosaad Version)..which will be under their control and that will alwayz be against Quran...
> If HUT cant helppractically our Afghan brotherz in implementing Shariah and kicking out these Kafireenz from there...it is surely working for Shaitaan...(Mosaaad/MI6).. cuz it is just doing Zubaani Jamma Khurch...and practically fooling ordinary Muslims..


 

well i asked u a question n it was *not a comment from the part*y!!! u twist a point u can n *leave the rest u have no answer or objection left*??

n nobody rec afghani state as it was not followin sunnah steps.. it is *my personal assessment* that (i dont know if those i assessed were jihadi or just supporters) dont have knowledge of islamic rules,they supported bombing shia n qadiyani as they r murtid,but wen i told *murtid ki olaad r not murtid but non-muslims n murtids punishment is death not non-muslims!! they changed their rezn! * H.T follows islamic rules for every action!

on 1 hand they say 70% of afgh is under taliban control n its not easy for them to takeover kabul n declare khilafat??

i'v given u rezn of H.T not fighting...rest of ur blames blah blah blah


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## Sayonara

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> *What is the 'System of Allah'?*
> 
> If anyone has posted the details of how this system will run, please point me to the relevant post.
> 
> Without details and the outline of a 'legal framework', this is just hot air and pointless rhetoric.


 
the system drived from the principles of quran and the prophets model through his life style, and msg learned from it, there is already an islamic ideology council which assured no laws are passed which dont confirm quranic teachings, doesnt mean that all state laws are already pre written in quran, i think its called ijtehad

it doesnt reject the presence of religion in laws as precticed by secularism


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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Yes! to destabilize Pakistan ..and during the Chaos the Mosaad and CIA/MI6 will take advantage and attacks the Nuclear assests over here to finish them ..so there will be no threat to the Greater Israel....
> Bro. pplz are no more dummy to get fooled nowadayz...
> plz dont be mad..but this is what is going in the background and Quran has clearly mentioned how the enemies of Islam works ..most probable tool is Munafqat...bro. Munafqat...


 

oh u giving rezn america gave to fight taliban!! nuclear assets zardari ki almari me nai paray.. i dont believe this dum thing its not easy to attack them! 

n y becoz of H.T's protest sumthin like that wud happen?


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## AHMED85

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> What is the 'System of Allah'?
> 
> If anyone has posted the details of how this system will run, please point me to the relevant post.
> 
> Without details and the outline of a 'legal framework', this is just hot air and pointless rhetoric.


 
very simple.. example 
system of god is ( rise and fall of sun ).
but i cant understand this phenomenon about life world ????
In daily life mostly people says Allah Mallik Hai with out realizing that god help those who help them selves...


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## 1 ummah

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> What is the 'System of Allah'?
> 
> If anyone has posted the details of how this system will run, please point me to the relevant post.
> 
> Without details and the outline of a 'legal framework', this is just hot air and pointless rhetoric.




http://khilafah.com/images/images/PDF/Books/sysislam.pdf


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## clmeta

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> and while we are discussing this the pimps of America and Britain ordered Pakistan police to storm the press club conference in Islamabad... Probably because thoughts and press is free in our country... haha
> 
> They think that these petty actions will stop the Caliphate


Will India have a role in such a system? After all it has the largest number of Muslims in the world.


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> well i asked u a question n it was *not a comment from the part*y!!! u twist a point u can n *leave the rest u have no answer or objection left*??
> 
> n nobody rec afghani state as it was not followin sunnah steps.. it is *my personal assessment* that (i dont know if those i assessed were jihadi or just supporters) dont have knowledge of islamic rules,they supported bombing shia n qadiyani as they r murtid,but wen i told *murtid ki olaad r not murtid but non-muslims n murtids punishment is death not non-muslims!! they changed their rezn! * H.T follows islamic rules for every action!
> 
> on 1 hand they say 70% of afgh is under taliban control n its not easy for them to takeover kabul n declare khilafat??
> 
> i'v given u rezn of H.T not fighting...rest of ur blames blah blah blah


 
R u going to allow Qadyaniz to preach in ure land?
or anyboody to disrespect Sahabah? according to HuT..
another thing in Afghanistan they never told to bomb shiaz there...
and there are no qadyaaniz there either.... cuz they came from Pak-India..not Afghanistan..
In Afghanistan The Talibaanz did have Kabul and have all over the country ..but who came to fight there ...US/NATO Kafireenz from all over the world..
HuT can go and declare Khilafat in the areas under their control (80-90%)Afghanistan and start Jihad against Kafireenz over there...cuz Afghan fighterz will welcome them over there...cuz they r our Muslimz brotherz...and need ure help in liberating their land and implementing Shariah in its true sense.
In case if u make reasonz and dont go and help ure Muslim brotherz in liberating their land..this meanz...HuT is not sincere in Islam whatsoever...and is gonna do Zubaani Jamma Khurch... to get political gainz for their Western Masterz..
Sorry bro ..to be so clear..on this matter...its all upto u..time will never be same..and we r looking who is sincere with Islam and who is hypocrite..and InshaAllah the fauj of Imam Mahdi is gonna rise from Khurasaan-Afghanistan in very near future ..and will run over all the traitorz in the Islamic world..
Cuz so many Hadith came about the Lashkar of Imaam Mahdi coming from Khurasaan/Afghanistan....then nobody will be able to fool or misguide anybody...


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> oh u giving rezn america gave to fight taliban!! nuclear assets zardari ki almari me nai paray.. i dont believe this dum thing its not easy to attack them!
> 
> n y becoz of H.T's protest sumthin like that wud happen?


 
Im not saying u to believe anything from me..but whatever the facts are ..I wrote it down here...
I guess u never even think what the CIA agents like Raymond Davis or Mark Dehaven are doing here...they marking the positions of our secret Nuclear installations in GPS domain..so in the time of attack they be known to them in their computerz...plus organizing terrorist TTP and other secret and sleeping groups to attack secretly the military installation whenever they (US/NATO)gonna attack us, the same way they doing in Libya...hey they not just partying over here...


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> I just read one line of the above and wrote the following...
> 
> No we do not support the Taliban's so called Islamic State... because in an Islamic State beards are not going to be measured with a lantern and women will be allowed to study and work...
> 
> pathetic arguments mate... It seems like you are the one working for MI6 stating so many nonsensical things like Taliban established Islamic State... what a joke


 
Thats why I wanna see u personally to find out who is working for MI6...and Insha-Allah ...we gonna get this evil MI6/Mosaad/CIA or whatever satanic powerz are...
U HUT guyz claiming that u gonna do Shariah and follow Quran and Sunnah but from ure discussion here it is evident ..ure Sunnah is not the Sunnah of Rasool Allah SAW and Sahabah...and ure all efforts will go in vain...reluctantly...insha-Allah...


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## Ahmad

1 ummah said:


> mr.ahmad they r not same dead bodies in sawat ,non muslim disguised as taliban,n many such proves, n now ramond davis nay phatta huwa bhanda dubara phor dia, his connection wid TTP an all!!


 
man, your conspiracy theories are never ending.


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## Ahmad

khurasaan1 said:


> I know u cant talk against US/NATO cuz then u cant make no money in UK or might face extradition...
> Everybody knowz Alqaida is CIA secret terrorist department...
> Talibaans are freedom fighterz from the crusaderz...and the real heroes of their country and Islam....I salute them that they are never sell outs like our leaderz and the religious organisations.....who alwayz try to fool us in the name of Islam...
> For Islam "zubani Jamma Khurch" dont work anymore...
> whoever dont help our Afghan brothers to get rid of the crusaderz/Kafireenz there are infact traitorz of Islam and Muslim Umma...


 
it is useless to debate with you, your post is full of rubbish.


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## khurasaan1

Ahmad said:


> it is useless to debate with you, your post is full of rubbish.


 
Yes! its rubbish sure it is for u.....u know why.??.cuz u cant say anything against UK/NATO then u wont be able to make money in UK...might face extradition...from there..and ure aim is money..only 
srry in advance cuz u wont like my coments..cuz its true...


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## Ahmad

khurasaan1 said:


> Yes! its rubbish sure it is for u.....u know why.??.cuz u cant say anything against UK/NATO then u wont be able to make money in UK...might face extradition...from there..and ure aim is money..only
> srry in advance cuz u wont like my coments..cuz its true...


 
what are you talking about man? why should i be extradited? do you know the meaning of extradition? if nobody extradite Anjam Choudary, then they wont deport(if that is what you mean) me either. so stop being silly and at least make some efforts to write some semi quality posts.

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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Im not saying u to believe anything from me..but whatever the facts are ..I wrote it down here...
> I guess u never even think what the CIA agents like Raymond Davis or Mark Dehaven are doing here...they marking the positions of our secret Nuclear installations in GPS domain..so in the time of attack they be known to them in their computerz...plus organizing terrorist TTP and other secret and sleeping groups to attack secretly the military installation whenever they (US/NATO)gonna attack us, the same way they doing in Libya...hey they not just partying over here...


 
yes US wants to control our nuclear...n that is why H.T is askin army to give protection so we establish stable khilafah state which doesnt ends up like libya


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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> R u going to allow Qadyaniz to preach in ure land?
> or anyboody to disrespect Sahabah? according to HuT..
> another thing in Afghanistan they never told to bomb shiaz there...
> and there are no qadyaaniz there either.... cuz they came from Pak-India..not Afghanistan..
> In Afghanistan The Talibaanz did have Kabul and have all over the country ..but who came to fight there ...US/NATO Kafireenz from all over the world..
> HuT can go and declare Khilafat in the areas under their control (80-90%)Afghanistan and start Jihad against Kafireenz over there...cuz Afghan fighterz will welcome them over there...cuz they r our Muslimz brotherz...and need ure help in liberating their land and implementing Shariah in its true sense.
> In case if u make reasonz and dont go and help ure Muslim brotherz in liberating their land..this meanz...HuT is not sincere in Islam whatsoever...and is gonna do Zubaani Jamma Khurch... to get political gainz for their Western Masterz..
> Sorry bro ..to be so clear..on this matter...its all upto u..time will never be same..and we r looking who is sincere with Islam and who is hypocrite..and InshaAllah the fauj of Imam Mahdi is gonna rise from Khurasaan-Afghanistan in very near future ..and will run over all the traitorz in the Islamic world..
> Cuz so many Hadith came about the Lashkar of Imaam Mahdi coming from Khurasaan/Afghanistan....then nobody will be able to fool or misguide anybody...


 
hadith r about khorasaan or hind?

n if *k* can be est in afgh i'll foward ur sugestion !


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## SQ8

Hot air being thrown around.. without any weight in it..
Its either links from Hizb this or hizb that in this forum.. or scattered Quranic verses and Hadiath being used with abandon.
Not one concrete, concise post that gives the system that Allah has presented.. just vague and abstract.


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## clmeta

Ahmad said:


> what are you talking about man? why should i be extradited? do you know the meaning of extradition? if nobody extradite Anjam Choudary, then they wont deport(if that is what you mean) me either. so stop being silly and at least make some efforts to write some semi quality posts.


 
Leave it man. There's no point debating with him. He is living in his own imaginary world

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## Myth_buster_1

1 ummah said:


> yes US wants to control our nuclear...n that is why H.T is askin army to give protection so we establish stable khilafah state which doesnt ends up like libya


 
So HuT is going to safe guard Pak nukes under its special Huts?

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## F-16_Falcon

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> nope... rather bring about the Caliphate...


 


ummah under the khilafa is the best solution for pakistan. we need full islamic rule in the country. democracy and military rule anything is not working. we forgot the lesson of islam. 


rise of new khilafat , pakistan.

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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> hadith r about khorasaan or hind?
> 
> n if *k* can be est in afgh i'll foward ur sugestion !


 
it is about Khorasaan..not hind
cuz the lashkar gnna come from Khorasaan for Imaam mahdi...and the nowdayz Talibaanz are part of his lashkar ..getting ready to come out anytime...for their devine goal....Khilafat...
just waiting for the signal...from Imaam mahdi...
and hadiths say everybody needa join them...if they wanna be successful..


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## khurasaan1

Ahmad said:


> what are you talking about man? why should i be extradited? do you know the meaning of extradition? if nobody extradite Anjam Choudary, then they wont deport(if that is what you mean) me either. so stop being silly and at least make some efforts to write some semi quality posts.


 Okay! Okay ...make money over there...We not gonna disturb u then...I knw u cant make that kinda money in Afghanistan.....be happi...


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## khurasaan1

clmeta said:


> Leave it man. There's no point debating with him. He is living in his own imaginary world


 
U knw what..its hard to get into my world....only one way ..going in but noway out...will get lost into it fr ever...


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## khurasaan1

Santro said:


> Hot air being thrown around.. without any weight in it..
> Its either links from Hizb this or hizb that in this forum.. or scattered Quranic verses and Hadiath being used with abandon.
> Not one concrete, concise post that gives the system that Allah has presented.. just vague and abstract.


 
I like ure coments bro...we already achieved our goal....anywayz thnx for giving some of ur precious time to read our disorganized posts...
U knw what I cant post so much stuff here cuz ..its in books u cant find on internet but u can study by bying them...
especially about Imaam Mahdi...
"Maktoobat-e-Imaam Rabbani" by Hazrat Mujaddid Alf-e-Saani (Sheikh Ahmed Sirhindi)
Its orginal is in Persian..u can get its authentic translation in 3 Jilds(published from Madina Publishing company Karachi)...dont buy the one in 2 Jilds..cuz it has mistakes in it...
This book will give u the detailz of Hadiths and the scenarios of the Imaam Mahdi..in some parts of it...This book covers so much stuff about Islam and our mistakes...this book has been originally written 500yrz ago appx.
thnx again bro. for ure attention...

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## Ahmad

khurasaan1 said:


> it is about Khorasaan..not hind
> cuz the lashkar gnna come from Khorasaan for Imaam mahdi...and the nowdayz Talibaanz are part of his lashkar ..getting ready to come out anytime...for their devine goal....Khilafat...
> just waiting for the signal...from Imaam mahdi...
> and hadiths say everybody needa join them...if they wanna be successful..


 
Ironically, the taliban hate the name of Khorasan.


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> yes US wants to control our nuclear...n that is why H.T is askin army to give protection so we establish stable khilafah state which doesnt ends up like libya


 
If it can happen like that ..it be very good ..but the shaitaan agents not gonna let it happens in an easy way...and the Hadiths are showing in the different way... from Khorasaan...cuz the word of Khorasaan is coming in Hadiths clearly...


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## khurasaan1

Ahmad said:


> Ironically, the taliban hate the name of Khorasan.


 
I be more than happi to agree with u ..but the facts are different than ure findingz...
by the way what is ure mother tongue...Persian , Pushto or Uzbek..????


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## Ahmad

khurasaan1 said:


> I be more than happi to agree with u ..but the facts are different than ure findingz...
> by the way what is ure mother tongue...Persian , Pushto or Uzbek..????


 
i am persian. you are talking baseless talks behind the internet, and i am talking about my country and my people that i am part of it. taliban are an ethnic group and this name khorasan is a hot battle between the 2 opposite sides, you can try to think otherwise, but it wont change reality.


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## Ahmad

lets stop talking about this as it is not the topic.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

clmeta said:


> Will India have a role in such a system? After all it has the largest number of Muslims in the world.


 
As far as I know, YES... 

Indians shall be one of the first nations invited to join the Caliphate... I have talked about this before... Considering the historical animosity between Pakistan and India and the hold of the Hindu Capitalist elite, there is little chance that a merger of the divided sections of Hind will happen without a war... Khair... one can always hope for a good outcome... 

Also... in the scenario that India becomes part of the Caliphate, the Indian Army shall be incorporated in the Caliphate Army regardless of their religious affiliation... 

Imagine the Armies of Pakistan and India fighting together against a common foe...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> it is about Khorasaan..not hind
> cuz the lashkar gnna come from Khorasaan for Imaam mahdi...and the nowdayz Talibaanz are part of his lashkar ..getting ready to come out anytime...for their devine goal....Khilafat...
> just waiting for the signal...from Imaam mahdi...
> and hadiths say everybody needa join them...if they wanna be successful..



Tact!!!

Every tom dick and harry is waving a black flag dreaming to be part of the Mahdi's group... Silly and pathetic 

Taliban are part of the lashkar of Mahdi now... great... just what we needed... Poor Mahdi must be warned that his mission is already in jeopardy...

now we will all have to grow beards also... just when I bought the latest philishave... darn!!!


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

As for the system of Allah swt... I dont know how many times I have to link these books on this forum for some of the same members asking the same question over and over and over... 

(only Allah swt knows)... 

seems as if one of those old sound records got stuck and saying the same thing again and again and again, over and over and over again... 

I really wonder if my posts are deleted after I link these books... Is it some sort of censorship going on??

http://www.caliphate.co.uk/files/Accountability in the Khilafah.pdf
http://grievance.khilafah.com/images/images/PDF/book-khilafah_is_not_a_totalitarian_state.pdf
http://www.khilafah.com/images/images/PDF/Books/PKEconomicQuest.pdf
http://www.khilafah.com/images/images/PDF/Books/manifesto-english.pdf
http://www.hizb-pakistan.com/mint/p...loads/2009/02/funds_in_the_khilafah_state.pdf
http://www.hizb-pakistan.com/mint/p...ploads/2009/02/islamic_verdict_on_cloning.pdf
http://www.hizb-pakistan.com/mint/p...ploads/2009/02/the_ruling_system_of_islam.pdf

Read these books for once for God sake and go out and participate in the protests on the 17th... to all those who are in Pakistan...

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## khurasaan1

Ahmad said:


> i am persian. you are talking baseless talks behind the internet, and i am talking about my country and my people that i am part of it. taliban are an ethnic group and this name khorasan is a hot battle between the 2 opposite sides, you can try to think otherwise, but it wont change reality.


 
U might not know that ..Hazrat Data Gunj Baksh , Ali Hajveri was persian too and a great Auliyaa Allah of his time...now resting in Lahore...
The province of Ghazni have so many Auliyaa Allahz that u cant even believe it ...more than the whole country ...did great work for Islam.
Most of them were Persian speakers..
Above all ..our great scholar Hazrat Imaam Abu Hanifa was from Kabul and persian speaker...and a district hasbeen named after him....Persians dont talk against Khorasan and neither do Pushtoons...nor Tajiks from Northern Afghanistan...
Aother thing the pplz might not be knowing here that our 4rth Khalifa Hazrat Ali (razi-Allah unhu) Roza-e-Mubarak is in Mazaar-Sharif...named that district after his Roza-Mubarak.
These all ethnic scholars thaught these hadiths regarding the word or the coming of Islam from Khorasaan.
U must be knowing that in the pplz of Khorasaan there is no sectarianism...just shias and mostly the rest are Hanafiz...
sorry to bother u this time too..


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Tact!!!
> 
> Every tom dick and harry is waving a black flag dreaming to be part of the Mahdi's group... Silly and pathetic
> 
> Taliban are part of the lashkar of Mahdi now... great... just what we needed... Poor Mahdi must be warned that his mission is already in jeopardy...
> 
> now we will all have to grow beards also... just when I bought the latest philishave... darn!!!


U know what! nobody is forcing u to follow the Sunnah of Rasool-Allah(growing beard..cuz its Sunnah of Rasool and Sahabah and All Auliyaa Allah)
only those pplz follow Sunnah who loves Rasool-Allah Sallullah-o-Alaihe-Wasallam ...
If HUT dont have love for Rasool-Allah then nobody is forcing them to Follow our great Rasool Sunnah.
U (HUT) r free to follow the MI6 versian of Islam..happili..


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> As for the system of Allah swt... I dont know how many times I have to link these books on this forum for some of the same members asking the same question over and over and over...
> 
> (only Allah swt knows)...
> 
> seems as if one of those old sound records got stuck and saying the same thing again and again and again, over and over and over again...
> 
> I really wonder if my posts are deleted after I link these books... Is it some sort of censorship going on??
> 
> http://www.caliphate.co.uk/files/Accountability in the Khilafah.pdf
> http://grievance.khilafah.com/images/images/PDF/book-khilafah_is_not_a_totalitarian_state.pdf
> http://www.khilafah.com/images/images/PDF/Books/PKEconomicQuest.pdf
> http://www.khilafah.com/images/images/PDF/Books/manifesto-english.pdf
> http://www.hizb-pakistan.com/mint/p...loads/2009/02/funds_in_the_khilafah_state.pdf
> http://www.hizb-pakistan.com/mint/p...ploads/2009/02/islamic_verdict_on_cloning.pdf
> http://www.hizb-pakistan.com/mint/p...ploads/2009/02/the_ruling_system_of_islam.pdf
> 
> Read these books for once for God sake and go out and participate in the protests on the 17th... to all those who are in Pakistan...


We can only join HuT for protests ..if they sit on the supply routes and permanently block the NATO/US supply lines...other than that..we cant trust HuT  ...cuz then they r the agents of MI6...
Our brotherz are getting killed mercilessly in Afghanistan and our tribal areas on the name of Islam by these drone strikes. and Kafireen Forces..and nobody cares..everybody is looking for their money and political goals..shame on everybody of us..we really are mean and selfish.We really deserve to be killed cuz we all are traitors of Islam and Muslim Umma..
sorry to say that ..but whatever r the facts ..im writing...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> U know what! nobody is forcing u to follow the Sunnah of Rasool-Allah(growing beard..cuz its Sunnah of Rasool and Sahabah and All Auliyaa Allah)
> only those pplz follow Sunnah who loves Rasool-Allah Sallullah-o-Alaihe-Wasallam ...
> If HUT dont have love for Rasool-Allah then nobody is forcing them to Follow our great Rasool Sunnah.
> U (HUT) r free to follow the MI6 versian of Islam..happili..


 
Define Sunnah...


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## clmeta

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> As far as I know, YES...
> 
> Indians shall be one of the first nations invited to join the Caliphate... I have talked about this before... *Considering the historical animosity between Pakistan and India and the hold of the Hindu Capitalist elite, there is little chance that a merger of the divided sections of Hind will happen without a war*... Khair... one can always hope for a good outcome...
> 
> Also... in the scenario that India becomes part of the Caliphate, the Indian Army shall be incorporated in the Caliphate Army regardless of their religious affiliation...
> 
> Imagine the Armies of Pakistan and India fighting together against a common foe...


 
Can you explain the bold part??
Yes India will have a strong say in the Caliphate.It will be one of the pillars of the caliphate.

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## NaqsheYaar

clmeta said:


> Can you explain the bold part??


He's referring to Ghazwae Hind mate


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## clmeta

NaqsheYaar said:


> He's referring to Ghazwae Hind mate


 
First you fought for a seperate land. Now you want to join the two lands?
Why do you need Ghazwae hind for that?
Lets be one country if you both want that.
Also this Ghazwa thing could take a long time. Lets take the shortcut and undo partition.

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## NaqsheYaar

khurasaan1 said:


> ...and Kafireen Forces..and nobody cares..everybody is looking for their money and political goals..shame on everybody of us..we really are mean and selfish.We really deserve to be killed cuz we all are traitors of Islam and Muslim Umma..
> sorry to say that ..but whatever r the facts ..im writing...


I understand and appreciate your concern (Dard) that you have for the atrocities committed against Muslims of the world. But please bear in mind brother, that there are two kinds of changes that could be brought about... One is where we humans try to force a change in our condition by consistent struggle and hardwork. And the other is when Allah wants to bring about a change. Look out for and never miss the latter when you see it happening.

Aulias say that a change is coming to Pakistan politically for now, in the form of a caretaker Govt. That Govt. would consist of very honest, hardworking and intelligent people. It's a matter of a few months now. Also that would only happen when the conditions get more unstable. That should happen before the end of 2011 according to my research. During the same time, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Bahrain (may be Iran) and a few other little states might also follow suit. When 2011 finishes, things would be in a very different state.

Please remember, that it's a time for very rapid and drastic changes now. Please go through the following excerpt from Wasif Ali Wasif's poetic predictions. Of course, people will believe only when they see things happening the way they are described.






That last verse is magnificent. And I believe that is what is happening today. Japan's Nuclear disaster is still far from over. Experts say its a "Chernobyl on steroids".

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## NaqsheYaar

clmeta said:


> First you fought for a seperate land. Now you want to join the two lands?
> Why do you need Ghazwae hind for that?
> Lets be one country if you both want that.
> Also this Ghazwa thing could take a long time. Lets take the shortcut and undo partition.


Unfortunately, I think we dont' like each other much 
Plus, it's bound to happen, God's verdict. Sounds strange yeah, but nonetheless 

Again people would only believe it, when they see it unfold before their eyes.

&#8220;An invasion of armies can be resisted but not an idea whose time has come&#8221; -Victor Hugo

According to 'my research': Also this Ghazwa-thing is going to take 6 months approximately to finish. I think it should be only 8-9 months away. Mind-blowing stuff init


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## Ahmad

khurasaan1 said:


> U might not know that ..Hazrat Data Gunj Baksh , Ali Hajveri was persian too and a great Auliyaa Allah of his time...now resting in Lahore...
> The province of Ghazni have so many Auliyaa Allahz that u cant even believe it ...more than the whole country ...did great work for Islam.
> Most of them were Persian speakers..
> Above all ..our great scholar Hazrat Imaam Abu Hanifa was from Kabul and persian speaker...and a district hasbeen named after him....Persians dont talk against Khorasan and neither do Pushtoons...nor Tajiks from Northern Afghanistan...
> Aother thing the pplz might not be knowing here that our 4rth Khalifa Hazrat Ali (razi-Allah unhu) Roza-e-Mubarak is in Mazaar-Sharif...named that district after his Roza-Mubarak.
> These all ethnic scholars thaught these hadiths regarding the word or the coming of Islam from Khorasaan.
> U must be knowing that in the pplz of Khorasaan there is no sectarianism...just shias and mostly the rest are Hanafiz...
> sorry to bother u this time too..


 
i know my people's contribution to islam, you dont have to tell me. i dont wana answer you here as it is off topic, i will send you a pm and reply to your post.


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## Ahmad

NaqsheYaar said:


> Unfortunately, I think we dont' like each other much
> Plus, it's bound to happen, God's verdict. Sounds strange yeah, but nonetheless
> 
> Again people would only believe it, when they see it unfold before their eyes.
> 
> &#8220;An invasion of armies can be resisted but not an idea whose time has come&#8221; -Victor Hugo
> 
> *According to 'my research': Also this Ghazwa-thing is going to take 6 months approximately to finish. I think it should be only 8-9 months away. Mind-blowing stuff init *


 
that is fascinating, i will make sure to stay(if death dont come to me) for another 8-9 months here to see if that comes true.

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## NaqsheYaar

Ahmad said:


> that is fascinating, i will make sure to stay(if death dont come to me) for another 8-9 months here to see if that comes true.


Again it's only 'my research'. I have only glued different bits together to come to this conclusion. I think I should start finding another suitable forum for me


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Define Sunnah...


 
I am sure every Muslim who loves his Rasool Allah (Sallalla-ho-alai-he Wasallam) knows the definition of his Sunnah...
Anyways if u realli interested to learn about Sunnah of Rasool Allah (Sallalla-ho-alai-he Wasallam) U needa study this book: honestly U will find all ure Questions answerz in it in detail...U will even know how to find spies in our pplz wrking for Shaitaan...if u r sincere...

"Maktoobat-e-Imaam Rabbani" by Hazrat Mujaddid Alf-e-Saani (Sheikh Ahmed Sirhindi)
Its orginal is in Persian..u can get its authentic translation in 3 Jilds(published from Madina Publishing company Karachi.....translated By late Imaam-Masjid Data Darbaar-Lahore..probably Cost around Rs.1000)...dont buy the one in 2 Jilds..cuz it has mistakes in it...
This book will give u the detailz of Hadiths and the scenarios of the Imaam Mahdi..and almost everything u wanna know about..and without joke U gonna find out the MI6/Mosaad/CIA/Devilz agents in HUT or in any organisation....if not I am ready for any punishment U can give me...
Bro. I dont needa joke cuz its the matter of Emaan for the pplz and Akhriah...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

clmeta said:


> Can you explain the bold part??
> Yes India will have a strong say in the Caliphate.It will be one of the pillars of the caliphate.


 
Alhumdulilah... This is what the people of Pakistan need to see... that regardless of nationality and religion, every human being desires the same goals of a decent life on earth... this is the ultimate goal of the Caliphate... and the idea of unity amongst people can soften the hearts of rivals and arch enemies... 

My point about the Hindu elites is simple... I do not see them joining the Caliphate because it will mean the end of their corruption, control and brutality against their own people... Today India is full of young talented people but the Capitalist system imposed on it does not allow them to achieve their full potential and prevents new avenues to be created for them... Interest based economy has indebted India in the same way as it has Pakistan... 

People in our countries have been kept in misery for so long that they forget a simple fact... that you do not require years to bring a change... change can happen all of a sudden and the condition of people can improve within matter of days... If we simply take Islam's stance on the way it commands energy resources to be public property... it means an end to the Capitalist multinational hagemony and profits from oil, gas, coal reserves, reducing travel and electricity expenditures overnight resulting in reduction of prices of each and every commodity and products because all of them require energy either for production or transport... 

So for a few months after re establishment, the Caliphate will start implementing the economic policies that improve the living standards of its citizens... also she will invite other countries for treaties etc (most countries except the colonialist states like US, UK, France and the occupation called Israel)... an alternative to the United Nations is also part of the plan God willing... 

The situation with India could take the route of war if Indians cause problems for the Caliphate OR if the Muslim population inside India asks for help from the Caliphate... I can see your good will towards the idea of unity based on a certain system (regardless of the origin of the principles on which it is based i.e Islam) but do you think there would be many like you in your country?

There is no need for a Ghazwa e Hind if Indians see the Caliphate as a model they would like in their land also... Without setting a living example and improving the standard of living for our own people, all talk about Jihad and Ghazwa does nt make us sound like Muslims, rather George Bush... and as I said... all Indian soldiers become part of the Army of the Caliphate itself... We need all the talent of the Indians that we can get...

---------- Post added at 02:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------




khurasaan1 said:


> I am sure every Muslim who loves his Rasool Allah (Sallalla-ho-alai-he Wasallam) knows the definition of his Sunnah...
> Anyways if u realli interested to learn about Sunnah of Rasool Allah (Sallalla-ho-alai-he Wasallam) U needa study this book: honestly U will find all ure Questions answerz in it in detail...U will even know how to find spies in our pplz wrking for Shaitaan...if u r sincere...
> 
> "Maktoobat-e-Imaam Rabbani" by Hazrat Mujaddid Alf-e-Saani (Sheikh Ahmed Sirhindi)
> Its orginal is in Persian..u can get its authentic translation in 3 Jilds(published from Madina Publishing company Karachi.....translated By late Imaam-Masjid Data Darbaar-Lahore..probably Cost around Rs.1000)...dont buy the one in 2 Jilds..cuz it has mistakes in it...
> This book will give u the detailz of Hadiths and the scenarios of the Imaam Mahdi..and almost everything u wanna know about..and without joke U gonna find out the MI6/Mosaad/CIA/Devilz agents in HUT or in any organisation....if not I am ready for any punishment U can give me...
> Bro. I dont needa joke cuz its the matter of Emaan for the pplz and Akhriah...


 
so you cannot answer a simple question...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

NaqsheYaar said:


> I understand and appreciate your concern (Dard) that you have for the atrocities committed against Muslims of the world. But please bear in mind brother, that there are two kinds of changes that could be brought about... One is where we humans try to force a change in our condition by consistent struggle and hardwork. And the other is when Allah wants to bring about a change. Look out for and never miss the latter when you see it happening.
> 
> Aulias say that a change is coming to Pakistan polictically for now, in the form of a caretaker Govt. That Govt. would consist of very honest, hardworking and intelligent people. It's a matter of a few months now. Also that would only happen when the conditions get more unstable. That should happen before the end of 2011 according to my research. During the same time, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Bahrain (may be Iran) and a few other little states might also follow suit. When 2011 finishes, things would be in a very different state.
> 
> Please remember, that it's a time for very rapid and drastic changes now. Please go through the following excerpt from Wasif Ali Wasif's poetic predictions. Of course, people will believe only when they see things happening the way they are described.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That last verse is magnificent. And I believe that is what is happening today. Japan's Nuclear disaster is still far from over. Experts say its a "Chernobyl on steroids".


 
I strongly reject the idea of a caretaker government doing anything good for us... We have seen what half Islam aka Iran, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Zia's Pakistan has done to us... 

This is one of those issues where I have severely criticized some well known speakers and proponents of this idea... Zaid Hamid anyone

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## khurasaan1

NaqsheYaar said:


> I understand and appreciate your concern (Dard) that you have for the atrocities committed against Muslims of the world. But please bear in mind brother, that there are two kinds of changes that could be brought about... One is where we humans try to force a change in our condition by consistent struggle and hardwork. And the other is when Allah wants to bring about a change. Look out for and never miss the latter when you see it happening.
> 
> Aulias say that a change is coming to Pakistan polictically for now, in the form of a caretaker Govt. That Govt. would consist of very honest, hardworking and intelligent people. It's a matter of a few months now. Also that would only happen when the conditions get more unstable. That should happen before the end of 2011 according to my research. During the same time, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Bahrain (may be Iran) and a few other little states might also follow suit. When 2011 finishes, things would be in a very different state.
> 
> Please remember, that it's a time for very rapid and drastic changes now. Please go through the following excerpt from Wasif Ali Wasif's poetic predictions. Of course, people will believe only when they see things happening the way they are described.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That last verse is magnificent. And I believe that is what is happening today. Japan's Nuclear disaster is still far from over. Experts say its a "Chernobyl on steroids".


 
I hope it happens in a very good way ..without any kinda bloodshad...everybody is predicting it...cuz I cant see humanz dying for this world ..where the Akhirah is the best choice for everybody..
Yes his last sentence is strange and amazing ..but anything is possible in this world..Allah is very mercifull..Alhamdolillah...we really need his help everywhere...

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## 1 ummah

Santro said:


> Hot air being thrown around.. without any weight in it..
> Its either links from Hizb this or hizb that in this forum.. or scattered Quranic verses and Hadiath being used with abandon.
> Not one concrete, concise post that gives the system that Allah has presented.. just vague and abstract.


 
u missed readin ALL THAT??!


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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> If it can happen like that ..it be very good ..but the shaitaan agents not gonna let it happens in an easy way...and the Hadiths are showing in the different way... from Khorasaan...cuz the word of Khorasaan is coming in Hadiths clearly...


 
plz share hadiths along referrnce


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## 1 ummah

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> As far as I know, YES...
> 
> I
> 
> Imagine the Armies of Pakistan and India fighting together against a common foe...



before inviting india khilafat will invite muslim lands to merge hopefully they will demand joining khilafat state as soon as they get to know about it ! n army of only 7 muslim countries numbers in crores!!

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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> We can only join HuT for protests ..if they sit on the supply routes and permanently block the NATO/US supply lines...other than that..we cant trust HuT  ...cuz then they r the agents of MI6...
> Our brotherz are getting killed mercilessly in Afghanistan and our tribal areas on the name of Islam by these drone strikes. and Kafireen Forces..and nobody cares..everybody is looking for their money and political goals..shame on everybody of us..we really are mean and selfish.We really deserve to be killed cuz we all are traitors of Islam and Muslim Umma..
> sorry to say that ..but whatever r the facts ..im writing...


 
r u participating in jihad ??


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## NaqsheYaar

khurasaan1 said:


> I hope it happens in a very good way ..without any kinda bloodshad...everybody is predicting it...cuz I cant see humanz dying for this world ..where the Akhirah is the best choice for everybody..
> Yes his last sentence is strange and amazing ..but anything is possible in this world..Allah is very mercifull..Alhamdolillah...we really need his help everywhere...


Yes insha-Allah brother!!

@ others...
I dont' want to talk more about it, as I think I am satisfied with my research. If there was anything new I come across, I would 'bump' this thread back to life then. Also I won't be able to transfer all of my knowledge-base (whatever little knowledege I have about these things) into anybody's mind here online anyway...

Also these conclusions that I draw are not from Zaid sb. Zaid Hamid is just a mouth-piece for the ideas of a lot of people.
Anyways, let's wait and see whether events turn out to be heading the same way we are discussing here... 
I think I should update that timeline to 10-11 months (i.e. till that war with India) to be on safe-side.


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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1

Khilafat re-establishment has a shariah condition that it can be started from an area which is self-sustainable in terms of military and economics. *Rasulullah (saww) refused to establish state from Bani Shaiban because of this very reason. *

Afghanistan is not suitable for starting. it will join Khilafat InshaAllah.

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## Myth_buster_1

@ HuT supporters.

What is HuT Pakistan stance on Jinnah? Are they also deluded that Jinnah was only Secular in his earlier life and later became pious Muslim Leader?


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## clmeta

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Alhumdulilah... This is what the people of Pakistan need to see... that regardless of nationality and religion, every human being desires the same goals of a decent life on earth... this is the ultimate goal of the Caliphate... and the idea of unity amongst people can soften the hearts of rivals and arch enemies...
> 
> My point about the Hindu elites is simple... I do not see them joining the Caliphate because it will mean the end of their corruption, control and brutality against their own people... Today India is full of young talented people but the Capitalist system imposed on it does not allow them to achieve their full potential and prevents new avenues to be created for them... Interest based economy has indebted India in the same way as it has Pakistan...
> 
> People in our countries have been kept in misery for so long that they forget a simple fact... that you do not require years to bring a change... change can happen all of a sudden and the condition of people can improve within matter of days... If we simply take Islam's stance on the way it commands energy resources to be public property... it means an end to the Capitalist multinational hagemony and profits from oil, gas, coal reserves, reducing travel and electricity expenditures overnight resulting in reduction of prices of each and every commodity and products because all of them require energy either for production or transport...
> 
> So for a few months after re establishment, the Caliphate will start implementing the economic policies that improve the living standards of its citizens... also she will invite other countries for treaties etc (most countries except the colonialist states like US, UK, France and the occupation called Israel)... an alternative to the United Nations is also part of the plan God willing...
> 
> The situation with India could take the route of war if Indians cause problems for the Caliphate OR if the Muslim population inside India asks for help from the Caliphate... I can see your good will towards the idea of unity based on a certain system (regardless of the origin of the principles on which it is based i.e Islam) but do you think there would be many like you in your country?
> 
> There is no need for a Ghazwa e Hind if Indians see the Caliphate as a model they would like in their land also... Without setting a living example and improving the standard of living for our own people, all talk about Jihad and Ghazwa does nt make us sound like Muslims, rather George Bush... and as I said... all Indian soldiers become part of the Army of the Caliphate itself... We need all the talent of the Indians that we can get...
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> so you cannot answer a simple question...



Yes India will join the Caliphate as a key contributor. Then the caliphate will eliminate all the terrorists from this world viz Al Qaida, Taliban, Lashkar e Toiba Hizbul , JEM etc. Caliphate army will remove all terrorists and seperatists from Kashmir. Kashmir will remain an integral part of India. We will make China implement the caliphate if we get a call from Chinese Muslims expecially from Xingjiang. 
Bharat Mata ki jai.


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## 1 ummah

Myth_buster_1 said:


> @ HuT supporters.
> 
> What is HuT Pakistan stance on Jinnah? Are they also deluded that Jinnah was only Secular in his earlier life and later became pious Muslim Leader?


 
H.T takes Q.A as agent! just like mustafa kamal pasha.. this is sumthin hard 2 digest by general awam we can never think that way coz praising him is wat we practice the day we enter school!


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## Majnun

1 ummah said:


> H.T takes Q.A as agent! just like mustafa kamal pasha.. this is sumthin hard 2 digest by general awam we can never think that way coz praising him is wat we practice the day we enter school!


 


This is why HuT is enjoying weather and luxury of London while calling for so-called Khilafat in Muslim world. They are anti-Pakistan and traitors and should be banned from Pakistan. You will see in all their rallies and all their propaganda, they will always strive to include India in everything, kick these traitors out of Pakistan.

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## NaqsheYaar

Wow, HuT thinks of Jinnah as a traitor!! And they also think that India should be invited to join Khilafat.
That confirms it for me that they are Anti-Pakistan. Very poor show Hut!! Thank God that I recognise you now. Like every other religious group, you would be consigned to the Dust-bin of history soon, just a matter of few years.

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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> khurasaan1
> 
> Khilafat re-establishment has a shariah condition that it can be started from an area which is self-sustainable in terms of military and economics. *Rasulullah (saww) refused to establish state from Bani Shaiban because of this very reason. *
> 
> Afghanistan is not suitable for starting. it will join Khilafat InshaAllah.


Quran dont say like that ..it dont give no condition...it straight away say to follow his commands
"Says Atiullah wa AtiuRasoolAllah wa Oolul Amreminkum...." That u gotta obey Allah and Rasool and ure Ameer...
and if u see Surat-ul Maidah Ayat 41 to 47 You will see the same thing..
In Surat-ul Kahaf ...Allah SBWT clearly says whoever dont go for Jihad and scared for their life and looking for reasons ..will be made "Zalleel O Khowaar" in this dunya and Akhirah...and whoever follows Allah Ahkaamz fully and follow Islam in its true sense no matter if they are weak and have no power will be granted power, respect and kingdom from Allah SBWT...in this world and in Akhirah...
I gave u very easy way to try to eastablish Khilafat from Khorasaan...but its all upto u gyz ...U will regret it in the end cuz the Sun of Khilafat according to Hadiths is gonna rise from there/Khorasaan..Insha-AAlah....Cuz It has already been granted Nusrah from Allah SBWT....Masha-Allah...
And Allah SBWT has his own hikmat in everything...Alhamdolillah


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> so you cannot answer a simple question...


 
Alhamdolillah , I can Define Sunnah very clearly, if u dont know about Sunnah...
and if u know about it then U dont need it....and wastage of time for both of us...


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## khurasaan1

NaqsheYaar said:


> Wow, HuT thinks of Jinnah as a traitor!! And they also think that India should be invited to join Khilafat.
> That confirms it for me that they are Anti-Pakistan. Very poor show Hut!! Thank God that I recognise you now. Like every other religious group, you would be consigned to the Dust-bin of history soon, just a matter of few years.


 Bro. Now u got them right ...
Now u know how MI6/Mosaad works behind the scenes...
and I can bet that the chief of HUT is in fact Israeli...undercover agent...Cuz I studied a similiar story about an Israeli top secret agent (yahoodi)from the same area he is from....and studied in Egypt too...and then he went to Jordan and became the deputy/Asst. defense Minister for Jordan and nobody knew about him...I dont remember his name... Luckily they found out by some way and hung him up...Later Israel claimed his body and their great hero...
Bro. in nowadayz everything is so distrustful and decieving...

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## Myth_buster_1

Majnun said:


> This is why HuT is enjoying weather and luxury of London while calling for so-called Khilafat in Muslim world. They are anti-Pakistan and traitors and should be banned from Pakistan. You will see in all their rallies and all their propaganda, they will always strive to include India in everything, kick these traitors out of Pakistan.


 
And what if Secular Jinnah and Ataturk supporters are banned by Allah to enter junnah because they disobeyed him? 

`Abdullah bin Mas`ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, *"He who has, in his heart, an ant's weight of arrogance *will not enter Jannah.'' Someone said: "A man likes to wear beautiful clothes and shoes?'' Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Allah is Beautiful, He loves beauty. *Arrogance means ridiculing and rejecting the Truth and despising people.''*


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## Myth_buster_1

NaqsheYaar said:


> Wow, HuT thinks of Jinnah as a traitor!! And they also think that India should be invited to join Khilafat.
> That confirms it for me that they are Anti-Pakistan. Very poor show Hut!! Thank God that I recognise you now. Like every other religious group, you would be consigned to the Dust-bin of history soon, just a matter of few years.


 
Yes Both Jinnah and Gandi were British tools. And I also believe Pakistan just like every other Muslim state like KSA were created by Britian. I hope by some critical criticism Pakistanis recognize the truth and follow the right path.


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## Myth_buster_1

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro. Now u got them right ...
> Now u know how MI6/Mosaad works behind the scenes...
> and I can bet that the chief of HUT is in fact Israeli...undercover agent...Cuz I studied a similiar story about an Israeli top secret agent (yahoodi)from the same area he is from....and studied in Egypt too...and then he went to Jordan and became the deputy/Asst. defense Minister for Jordan and nobody knew about him...I dont remember his name... Luckily they found out by some way and hung him up...Later Israel claimed his body and their great hero...
> Bro. in nowadayz everything is so distrustful and decieving...


 
And what if Jinnah was British undercover Agent? Wasnt Jinnah pampered by British or not?


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> And what if Jinnah was British undercover Agent? Wasnt Jinnah pampered by British or not?


 
To tell u the truth Everybody is an agent....of "Nafs" and Shaitaan..
and "Nafs" is the biggest devil, forces us to do all kind of evil stuff no matter whoever a person is...
and it is clearly stated in Surah Al-Asr...that everybody is in total debt/loss ...but those pplz who brought Emaan and did Amal-e-Saleh , adviced each other for Haq and Sabr...
I myself consider a biggest evil and agent of my "Nafs" and "Devil" ..If I dont follow the Ahkaam of Allah Subhana-ho-Watahalah and his beloved Rasool Allah Sallalla-ho-Alaih-e-Wassallam...
I wish and hope to follow the Ahkaam of Allah and his Rasool Sallalla-ho-Alaih-e-Wassallam in its true sense with sincerety and wish for everybody...

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## NaqsheYaar

Myth_buster_1 said:


> And what if Secular Jinnah and Ataturk supporters are banned by Allah to enter junnah because they disobeyed him?
> 
> `Abdullah bin Mas`ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, *"He who has, in his heart, an ant's weight of arrogance *will not enter Jannah.'' Someone said: "A man likes to wear beautiful clothes and shoes?'' Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Allah is Beautiful, He loves beauty. *Arrogance means ridiculing and rejecting the Truth and despising people.''*


Man you are so funny, what kind of Ahadeeth are you quoting to support your point here, Hahaha


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## NaqsheYaar

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Yes Both Jinnah and Gandi were British tools. And I also believe Pakistan just like every other Muslim state like KSA were created by Britian. I hope by some critical criticism Pakistanis recognize the truth and follow the right path.


Man what do you think of Pakistan. I think it's hopeless to debate with you on this issue


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## 1 ummah

Majnun said:


> This is why HuT is enjoying weather and luxury of London while calling for so-called Khilafat in Muslim world. They are anti-Pakistan and traitors and should be banned from Pakistan. You will see in all their rallies and all their propaganda, they will always strive to include India in everything, kick these traitors out of Pakistan.


 
ya they enjoy coz they *call them british agent* which their (jinnah n m.k)actions prove. yes H.T is anti- n its anti-British,american,saudi,afghani,etc etc coz they know NATIONALISM IS HARRAM,n MUSLIMS R 1 NATION, compare wat u do n wat hizbi's do,they live dawah,they raise voice b4 zalim hukmaran( afzal jihad),they r practicing muslims...workin 4 the ultimate solution

*THANKS TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON HWO HAS TRIED TO PROVE H.T INSINCERE AS EACH N EVERY POINT U RAISE INCREASED MY CONFIDENCE IN H.T*!


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## 1 ummah

NaqsheYaar said:


> Wow, HuT thinks of Jinnah as a traitor!! And they also think that India should be invited to join Khilafat.
> That confirms it for me that they are Anti-Pakistan. Very poor show Hut!! Thank God that I recognise you now. Like every other religious group, you would be consigned to the Dust-bin of history soon, just a matter of few years.


 
bro this is not the way to judge...we think like muslim n not ,irani,afghani,..,.. u wont object if i call present rulers agents?? then y not Q.A ?? its just becoz u take him as hero..u didnt highlighted mustafa kamal i mentioned we speak truth ! think wat he (Q.A ) did.. he used islam if not then* y he implemented sharie n gifted pakistan wid british law??? do u know how much he compromised??* it is haram to give away land which becomes part of muslim state, muslims ruled sub-continent n he gave the bigger part to india?? 

*H.T is 60 years old n will never compromise on islamic rules so will NEVER DIE INSHALLAH*!

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> Alhamdolillah , I can Define Sunnah very clearly, if u dont know about Sunnah...
> and if u know about it then U dont need it....and wastage of time for both of us...


 
That... is not the answer to my question


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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Quran dont say like that ..it dont give no condition...it straight away say to follow his commands
> "Says Atiullah wa AtiuRasoolAllah wa Oolul Amreminkum...." That u gotta obey Allah and Rasool and ure Ameer...
> and if u see Surat-ul Maidah Ayat 41 to 47 You will see the same thing..
> In Surat-ul Kahaf ...Allah SBWT clearly says whoever dont go for Jihad and scared for their life and looking for reasons ..will be made "Zalleel O Khowaar" in this dunya and Akhirah...and whoever follows Allah Ahkaamz fully and follow Islam in its true sense no matter if they are weak and have no power will be granted power, respect and kingdom from Allah SBWT...in this world and in Akhirah...
> I gave u very easy way to try to eastablish Khilafat from Khorasaan...but its all upto u gyz ...U will regret it in the end cuz the Sun of Khilafat according to Hadiths is gonna rise from there/Khorasaan..Insha-AAlah....Cuz It has already been granted Nusrah from Allah SBWT....Masha-Allah...
> And Allah SBWT has his own hikmat in everything...Alhamdolillah


 

CONFIRM THAT KHILAFA WILL BE STABLE.. wat do we have in afghanistan to secure it from attacks?? who will join this weak khilafah?


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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Quran dont say like that ..it dont give no condition...it straight away say to follow his commands
> "Says Atiullah wa AtiuRasoolAllah wa Oolul Amreminkum...." That u gotta obey Allah and Rasool and ure Ameer...
> and if u see Surat-ul Maidah Ayat 41 to 47 You will see the same thing..
> In Surat-ul Kahaf ...Allah SBWT clearly says whoever dont go for Jihad and scared for their life and looking for reasons ..will be made "Zalleel O Khowaar" in this dunya and Akhirah...and whoever follows Allah Ahkaamz fully and follow Islam in its true sense no matter if they are weak and have no power will be granted power, respect and kingdom from Allah SBWT...in this world and in Akhirah...
> I gave u very easy way to try to eastablish Khilafat from Khorasaan...but its all upto u gyz ...U will regret it in the end cuz the Sun of Khilafat according to Hadiths is gonna rise from there/Khorasaan..Insha-AAlah....Cuz It has already been granted Nusrah from Allah SBWT....Masha-Allah...
> And Allah SBWT has his own hikmat in everything...Alhamdolillah


 
y wud we regret?? we will be happy from where ever khilafah rises n who ever est it !

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

clmeta said:


> Yes India will join the Caliphate as a key contributor. Then the caliphate will eliminate all the terrorists from this world viz Al Qaida, Taliban, Lashkar e Toiba Hizbul , JEM etc. Caliphate army will remove all terrorists and seperatists from Kashmir. Kashmir will remain an integral part of India. We will make China implement the caliphate if we get a call from Chinese Muslims expecially from Xingjiang.
> Bharat Mata ki jai.


 
Fair enough... It does nt take long for systems to collapse when challenged by opposing ideologies... look at what happened to the USSR... The new Caliphate is the death of the Capitalist order as we see it today... and it shall protect all mankind not just Muslims... inshaAllah

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## 1 ummah

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro. Now u got them right ...
> Now u know how MI6/Mosaad works behind the scenes...
> and I can bet that the chief of HUT is in fact Israeli...undercover agent...Cuz I studied a similiar story about an Israeli top secret agent (yahoodi)from the same area he is from....and studied in Egypt too...and then he went to Jordan and became the deputy/Asst. defense Minister for Jordan and nobody knew about him...I dont remember his name... Luckily they found out by some way and hung him up...Later Israel claimed his body and their great hero...
> Bro. in nowadayz everything is so distrustful and decieving...


 
wat is H.T DUIN FOR mI6 n all?? how r we gud for them?? plz explain n prove this funny crap


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## NaqsheYaar

Let us all pray that may Allah help us all in our lives to be on the right path, and may Allah grant this Ummah unity & peace and may Allah protect Muslims all over the world from our enemies, Ameen Ya Rabbal Aalameen!!

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

NaqsheYaar said:


> Wow, HuT thinks of Jinnah as a traitor!! And they also think that India should be invited to join Khilafat.
> That confirms it for me that they are Anti-Pakistan. Very poor show Hut!! Thank God that I recognise you now. Like every other religious group, you would be consigned to the Dust-bin of history soon, just a matter of few years.


 
Ajeeb...

Are Indians not humans? Is nt it a fact that there are more Muslims in India than there are in Pakistan? Why should nt India be invited to join the Caliphate? Hillarious post haha...

This is what nationalism does to people... some people are so stuck in being Pakis that they cannot understand that the message of Islam is universal and has nothing to do where you came from... It is a message of peace and harmony to the whole world... an ideology to solve problems of all mankind... not just Pakistan duh

We want good for India so we must be traitors... right, the next Indian I meet I m going to spit on him... somebody kick me in the head!!!

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## Majnun

1 ummah said:


> ya they enjoy coz they *call them british agent* which their (jinnah n m.k)actions prove. yes H.T is anti- n its *anti-British*,american,saudi,afghani,etc etc coz they know NATIONALISM IS HARRAM,n MUSLIMS R 1 NATION, compare wat u do n wat hizbi's do,they live dawah,they raise voice b4 zalim hukmaran( afzal jihad),they r practicing muslims...workin 4 the ultimate solution


 


Then why are HuT enjoying the weather and wealth of Britain while ordinary Muslims are struggling to survive and live respectable lives?


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## Majnun

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Ajeeb...
> 
> Are Indians not humans? Is nt it a fact that there are more Muslims in India than there are in Pakistan? Why should nt India be invited to join the Caliphate? Hillarious post haha...
> 
> This is what nationalism does to people... some people are so stuck in being Pakis that they cannot understand that the message of Islam is universal and has nothing to do where you came from... It is a message of peace and harmony to the whole world... an ideology to solve problems of all mankind... not just Pakistan duh
> 
> We want good for India so we must be traitors... right, the next Indian I meet I m going to spit on him... somebody kick me in the head!!!


 


Firstly, no there are not more Muslims in India than in Pakistan, *this is false.* Secondly, HuT doesn't just talk about including India, but goes out of its way to promote India. And of course, it considers Jinnah, Ataturk and Abdul Aziz to be agents.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

1 ummah said:


> wat is H.T DUIN FOR mI6 n all?? how r we gud for them?? plz explain n prove this funny crap


 
Hey 1ummah... (james bond theme music starts)... have you finished the report for MI6 and Mossad on how to fool Muslims for 60 years and counting?

Send me a copy of that in e mail... Mother at MI6 headquarters must receive the copy before midnight tomorrow...

(Muhammad Bin Qasim aka Bond... James Bond... wants some dorritos)

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Majnun said:


> Firstly, no there are not more Muslims in India than in Pakistan, *this is false.* Secondly, HuT doesn't just talk about including India, but goes out of its way to promote India. And of course, it considers Jinnah, Ataturk and Abdul Aziz to be agents.


 
I have read some interesting stuff about Jinnah recently and I have a feeling that the guy was not sure about some things... however Kemal and Abdul Aziz without a doubt were British assets... 

I have been posting on this forum as a supporter of HT for the past year... and I have never promoted India in anything... 

As for the Muslim population... you are correct... but they are still close to our own population... they number around 150 million in India by one estimate... 

So we should hate all these millions of people because they are Indians regardless of the fact that they are Muslims?

---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 PM ----------




Majnun said:


> Then why are HuT enjoying the weather and wealth of Britain while ordinary Muslims are struggling to survive and live respectable lives?


 
Coz they are MI6 agents yaar... dont you understand?

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## 1 ummah




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## NaqsheYaar

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Are Indians not humans? Is nt it a fact that there are more Muslims in India than there are in Pakistan? Why should nt India be invited to join the Caliphate? Hillarious post haha...
> This is what nationalism does to people...


Well I am not against Indians or even Israelis for that matter (That's because I believe in Qaza & Qadar, predestination. It's only by the providence of Allah that I was born into a Muslim family...)
What I am saying is that by the time Khilafat is established and declared as such, there won't be any India as we know it now. That's all.


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## Mutee

How are we going to justify this to the non Muslim pakistanis ? as being a Muslim I understand there's no choice for us because that's the order of our deen that's my jaan and eeman I will follow it on every cost but how can we convience them ???? and they can't pay juziya cuz they are the original residents just like us???? And they won't accept our example of a righteous person because their religion or sect tells them something else ? in my opinion we need an ameer who's is so pious a man thT even the non musilims accept his rule I don't see anyone what do you guys have in mind ?

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## Mutee

how are we going to implement it I see soo many troubles talk to any liberal and you would know what I am talking about those ppl will resist us with everything and we are not like those bastards (taliban) so my question is what do we plan to do with those pakistanis ? Islam doesn't like and want us to implement it with force with ppl who are not fighting us so basically I am asking how can we change someones heart????? even if we succeed in doing that they will never accept it with an open heart how do we adress this issue ?

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## NaqsheYaar

Mutee said:


> How are we going to justify this to the non Muslim pakistanis ? as being a Muslim I understand there's no choice for us because that's the order of our deen that's my jaan and eeman I will follow it on every cost but how can we convience them ???? and they can't pay juziya cuz they are the original residents just like us???? And they won't accept our example of a righteous person because their religion or sect tells them something else ? in my opinion we need an ameer who's is so pious a man thT even the non musilims accept his rule I don't see anyone what do you guys have in mind ?


Insha-Allah once Khilafat is established, it would be a beacon of light for the whole world!! Not only native non-muslims, but others from around the world would want to live in Khilafat.
Also there is no one in sight right now. He would be a gift from the Almighty. Prophet Muhammad (saw) has spoken very proudly of him, so let's not think little of him.

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## 1 ummah

Majnun said:


> Then why are HuT enjoying the weather and wealth of Britain while ordinary Muslims are struggling to survive and live respectable lives?


 
rizk is given by ALLAH
well its not their fault that they were born there..n a muslim in britain cannot work n follow islam coz they will b labeled agent??

n those who left britan n moved t this 3rd world country for islam?? 

n u dont know how much sadqa,khairat they do, how much can they help ?? only khilafat will end poverty

n livin in london doesnt means u live luxury! 

ALLAH says i will give duniya too to those who will work in my way!!
wat kind of criteria is this?? wat about* H.T members who suffer brutal torture n r killed ??*


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## NaqsheYaar

Mutee said:


> how are we going to implement it I see soo many troubles talk to any liberal and you would know what I am talking about those ppl will resist us with everything and we are not like those bastards (taliban) so my question is what do we plan to do with those pakistanis ? Islam doesn't like and want us to implement it with force with ppl who are not fighting us so basically I am asking how can we change someones heart????? even if we succeed in doing that they will never accept it with an open heart how do we adress this issue ?


Well let that Ghazwa come to pass... That's going to change a lot of people's hearts...

We don't anymore live in those early ages of history, when human thinking was primeval and simple. Now there are a lot of variables and factors that affect today's man's point of view. Hence only dialogue won't do it. As I said, let Allah do it for you, you would immediately recognise that 'turn of the tide'...

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## 1 ummah

O the Muslims of Pakistan....bear witness that *on this 17th day of April 2011 the brave ones amongst us will march and rally raising the Takbeer*. A Takbeer that will cause tremors in the palaces of the tyrant rulers , A Takbeer that will tremble the hearts of the crusader america and a Takbeer that bi-IznIllah will soften the hearts of the people of power. O Muslims of Pakistan .....*bear witness* !


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## NaqsheYaar

1 ummah said:


> O the Muslims of Pakistan....bear witness that *on this 17th day of April 2011 the brave ones amongst us will march and rally raising the Takbeer*. A Takbeer that will cause tremors in the palaces of the tyrant rulers , A Takbeer that will tremble the hearts of the crusader america and a Takbeer that bi-IznIllah will soften the hearts of the people of power. O Muslims of Pakistan .....*bear witness* !


Good luck with that brother!!

I hope you take some kind of mask or handkerchief and helmet with you, as you would be tear-gased and baton-charged. Be careful my friend!!

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## Mutee

Thanks for your prompt reply

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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> rizk is given by ALLAH
> well its not their fault that they were born there..n a muslim in britain cannot work n follow islam coz they will b labeled agent??
> 
> n those who left britan n moved t this 3rd world country for islam??
> 
> n u dont know how much sadqa,khairat they do, how much can they help ?? only khilafat will end poverty
> 
> n livin in london doesnt means u live luxury!
> 
> ALLAH says i will give duniya too to those who will work in my way!!
> wat kind of criteria is this?? wat about* H.T members who suffer brutal torture n r killed ??*


* 
U know living in London or USA..u give govt Tax..and the tax money is utilized in wars against our Muslim brotherz and killing innocent lives...so indirectly or directly the taxpayers are killers too ..not just their govt...or is the best way dont give them tax if u live there... *


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> O the Muslims of Pakistan....bear witness that *on this 17th day of April 2011 the brave ones amongst us will march and rally raising the Takbeer*. A Takbeer that will cause tremors in the palaces of the tyrant rulers , A Takbeer that will tremble the hearts of the crusader america and a Takbeer that bi-IznIllah will soften the hearts of the people of power. O Muslims of Pakistan .....*bear witness* !


 
I cant trust HUT if they dont go out and try to stop the supplies for US/NATO....no matter whatever they do....
Whoever gonna do that and save the innocent Muslims lives in Afghanistan and tribal areas from evil US/NATO will be our hero...the rest all is the Satanic game


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> *
> U know living in London or USA..u give govt Tax..and the tax money is utilized in wars against our Muslim brotherz and killing innocent lives...so indirectly or directly the taxpayers are killers too ..not just their govt...or is the best way dont give them tax if u live there... *


 
You pay taxes to a government that is helping the Americans use drones against its own people... you are also supporting murderers and traitors... 

dont talk about things you dont understand... 

As for attacking NATO supply lines... why should we do that when the method of the Prophet saw clearly forbids this... The Prophet did not initiate any war before the state was established... 

anyway... pointless to discuss with you... as noted by a few members here...

As for the protests... see how Pakistan remains backward and in the dark ages under the ruling of these Secularists...

Slideshows  The Express Tribune


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Brother 1ummah is probably in jail tonight...


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## NaqsheYaar

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Brother 1ummah is probably in jail tonight...


Yes, otherwise he would have turned up here with some "Kaar Guzaari" or description.
I hope he is not hurt, and is safe, inshAllah!!

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## Myth_buster_1

khurasaan1 said:


> *
> U know living in London or USA..u give govt Tax..and the tax money is utilized in wars against our Muslim brotherz and killing innocent lives...so indirectly or directly the taxpayers are killers too ..not just their govt...or is the best way dont give them tax if u live there... *


 
What if you found out Pakistanis living in Pakistan are also funding these wars?  Does KFC MD Coke Pepsi etc ring any bells? These mega companies also help finance such wars.

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## Myth_buster_1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Brother 1ummah is probably in jail tonight...


 
are you serious? wont be surprised though  pak police zindabaad

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Brother 1ummah is probably in jail tonight...


 
Hahahah.......thts kinda funny n sad......hope he gets out soon.

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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> You pay taxes to a government that is helping the Americans use drones against its own people... you are also supporting murderers and traitors... dont talk about things you dont understand...
> 
> As for attacking NATO supply lines... why should we do that when the method of the Prophet saw clearly forbids this... The Prophet did not initiate any war before the state was established... anyway... pointless to discuss with you... as noted by a few members here...


I do not pay taxes to anybody not even here due to the same reasons...and I dont even work for anybody who could be directly or indirectly involved in the innocent humans killings ....

and u dont want to cutt off the supply routes for the US/NATO....and looking for Power...this means u gonna let the innocent pplz die even u have the power to save them.....
and you are trying to give reasons that first to eastablish khilafat and then the rest of the work to be done.....
Rasool Allah never said like that anywhere....in none of his Hadiths that u can let innocent Muslims die and just run for power...not even it came in Quran either.... so ure arguments are useless...points towards the secret MI6/Mosaad agenda.....cuz ure HUT dont wanna hurt their interests....instead HUT can let innocent Muslims die anywhere around the world, even if they have some power to save them..


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> What if you found out Pakistanis living in Pakistan are also funding these wars?  Does KFC MD Coke Pepsi etc ring any bells? These mega companies also help finance such wars.


 
Sure they all do ..if they pay taxes to the US/NATO.... then they r all killerz of humanity too...its very simple....


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Brother 1ummah is probably in jail tonight...


 
See u didn't even go for protest and just stayed home for money ...LOL...
what more we can expect from u....
and u have very good reasons too now...????


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## khurasaan1

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Hahahah.......thts kinda funny n sad......hope he gets out soon.


 
I hope he stays sometime there ..to bring his mind on right track ...not to be used by anybody so blindly....
not specifically by anybody from foreign land...
I hope he be having fun there....after all he is special guest there...


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> O the Muslims of Pakistan....bear witness that *on this 17th day of April 2011 the brave ones amongst us will march and rally raising the Takbeer*. A Takbeer that will cause tremors in the palaces of the tyrant rulers , A Takbeer that will tremble the hearts of the crusader america and a Takbeer that bi-IznIllah will soften the hearts of the people of power. O Muslims of Pakistan .....*bear witness* !


 
I wish u had gone to shut down the supply lines for the US/NATO ....to save innocent Muslims from the evils attacks...


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## Majnun

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> You pay taxes to a government that is helping the Americans use drones against its own people... you are also supporting murderers and traitors...
> 
> dont talk about things you dont understand...
> 
> As for attacking NATO supply lines... why should we do that when the method of the Prophet saw clearly forbids this... The Prophet did not initiate any war before the state was established...
> 
> anyway... pointless to discuss with you... as noted by a few members here...
> 
> As for the protests... see how Pakistan remains backward and in the dark ages under the ruling of these Secularists...
> 
> Slideshows  The Express Tribune


 


Rather than attacking khurasan admit you have no support or justification for HuT leadership sitting enjoying in London, enjoying all the benefits of British life, while calling for some pipedream Khilafat.

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## Majnun

khurasaan1 said:


> I wish u had gone to shut down the supply lines for the US/NATO ....to save innocent Muslims from the evils attacks...


 


No HuT can't do that because that would be something concrete and solid. HuT can only make wishy-washy statements while not taking any actual steps. Its the best service to the British possible.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Hahahah.......thts kinda funny n sad......hope he gets out soon.


 
He ll be ok inshaAllah


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> I do not pay taxes to anybody not even here due to the same reasons...and I dont even work for anybody who could be directly or indirectly involved in the innocent humans killings ....
> 
> and u dont want to cutt off the supply routes for the US/NATO....and looking for Power...this means u gonna let the innocent pplz die even u have the power to save them.....
> and you are trying to give reasons that first to eastablish khilafat and then the rest of the work to be done.....
> Rasool Allah never said like that anywhere....in none of his Hadiths that u can let innocent Muslims die and just run for power...not even it came in Quran either.... so ure arguments are useless...points towards the secret MI6/Mosaad agenda.....cuz ure HUT dont wanna hurt their interests....instead HUT can let innocent Muslims die anywhere around the world, even if they have some power to save them..


 
hmmm looks like someone is ignoring the entire seerah of the Prophet saw... Let me give you a few examples mr khorassan1

Armed struggle before the Islamic State is established is not sanctioned in the Sunnah unless it is for defensive reasons... There are obvious examples to this... Do you realize that the Prophet saw had ferocious warriors by his side in the form of Ali RA, Hamza RA and Umar RA as well as Jaffar RA and many others... yet he saw the murders of Muslims taking place like those of Yasir RA and Sumayah RA yet he never ordered any of his companions to resort to violence... It would have been a simple matter to assasinate Abu Jahl and Abu Sufyan... 

Jihad is not a joke that you can do with an AK... You need the entire military hardware to defend the Muslim land... You cannot give me a single example of Jihad without the Islamic State which has achieved land gains for Muslims... the best we have done has been to save Afghanistan from the Soviets or save Pakistan (half of it anyway) from the Indians... The land our Mujahideen won in 1965 against India, traitors at the top gave it back under orders from America... so there you are...

We want the NATO supply routes to be stopped... BUT more than that we want a governmennt of responsible, and intelligent people instead of traitors like Musharaf who started this problem in the first place... SO that we never have such problems again... This is why the stress is on Khilafat and NOT on small battles... 

Within a few days of the re establishment of the Khilafat NATO/American/ISAF forces inside Afghanistan shall be imprisoned as POW... If you do not see that you ll know that the people in power are not sincere and MI 6 agents... simple enough yeah?

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Majnun said:


> Rather than attacking khurasan admit you have no support or justification for HuT leadership sitting enjoying in London, enjoying all the benefits of British life, while calling for some pipedream Khilafat.


 
hypocrisy much... 

this coming from a supporter of Busharaf... 

btw... did you read my post where I told you that HT leader has spent two years in Jail?

Do you even know that the founder of HT died due to torture at the hands of Saddam Hussain's henchmen?

These are indeed dark days of ignorance...


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## DaRk WaVe

Majnun said:


> Rather than attacking khurasan admit you have no support or justification for *HuT leadership sitting enjoying in London, enjoying all the benefits of British life, while calling for some pipedream Khilafat*.


 
I guess they are going to start it from London...

here we go my dear! 

'London Taliban' is targeting women and gays in bid to impose sharia law | Mail Online


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## Majnun

Actually someone who admires much of what Musharraf worked for, but has constantly said that before establishing any political party or taking part in Pakistan's politics, he needs to come back to Pakistan. Would you like to attack Imran Khan now? I support him as well. You could attack him for calling for Khilafat while enjoying the comforts of British MI6 life - oh wait..


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## DaRk WaVe

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> anyway... pointless to discuss with you... as noted by a few members here...
> 
> As for the protests... *see how Pakistan remains backward and in the dark ages under the ruling of these Secularists...*
> 
> Slideshows  The Express Tribune


 
I want to know a developed country where the state system has amalgamated religion & politics


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## Majnun

DaRk WaVe said:


> I want to know a developed country where the state system has amalgamated religion & politics


 


It depends on what you mean by that. If you mean a country with a state religion, UK has state religion, but all its workings are secular. If you mean a country where religion plays a significant role, US, but they do not have a state religion, and domestically, discrimination based on religion is not that common.

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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Armed struggle before the Islamic State is established is not sanctioned in the Sunnah unless it is for defensive reasons... Within a few days of the re establishment of the Khilafat NATO/American/ISAF forces inside Afghanistan shall be imprisoned as POW... If you do not see that you ll know that the people in power are not sincere and MI 6 agents... simple enough yeah?


 
What Iam asking u for the battle in Khorasaan for the defensive purpose to defend and save the lives of the pplz...I am not asking u for the offensive...
Its also clear from ure statements that the fight for defense is allowed and must to save the lives of the pplz in Afghanistan and Pakistan...so HUT needa act and their first goal should be to cuttoff the supply lines for US/NATO... so that other pplz could trust u and join too...if not HUT is not coming clean to anybody of us here or anywhere around the world...Cuz HUT is not trying to hurt US/NATO by anyway....
cuz Kafireens are standing right in front of us and killing our brothers and HUT is not trying to defend them except running for power and money stuff...
that is the same Jamma Khurch our politicianz are doing with us for the last 60 yearz...
every politician is saying ..we will come in power ..we will cuttoff supply line and shoot down drones etc etc... all Bull Sh*t stuff...
we are tired of the foolish game ...bro ..we are not trusting anybody or any theory ...if nobody is not standing with us in our fight to save and liberate our brotherz we will think that they all traitorz ..nomatter what...
and Insha-Allah I hope our Afghan brothers will kill each and every Munafiq/MI6/Mossad /CIA (even if they r in the form of HUT , or any political/religious group) or any evil agent trying to fool our Muslim brotherz and involved in the killingz of our innocent Muslimz...unless they do Taubah and come on right path...
and I hope the Khilafat will be soon eastablished starting from Khorasaan as it came in many many Hadiths ...Insha-Allah...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> What Iam asking u for the battle in Khorasaan for the defensive purpose to defend and save the lives of the pplz...I am not asking u for the offensive...
> Its also clear from ure statements that the fight for defense is allowed and must to save the lives of the pplz in Afghanistan and Pakistan...so HUT needa act and their first goal should be to cuttoff the supply lines for US/NATO... so that other pplz could trust u and join too...if not HUT is not coming clean to anybody of us here or anywhere around the world...Cuz HUT is not trying to hurt US/NATO by anyway....
> cuz Kafireens are standing right in front of us and killing our brothers and HUT is not trying to defend them except running for power and money stuff...
> that is the same Jamma Khurch our politicianz are doing with us for the last 60 yearz...
> every politician is saying ..we will come in power ..we will cuttoff supply line and shoot down drones etc etc... all Bull Sh*t stuff...
> we are tired of the foolish game ...bro ..we are not trusting anybody or any theory ...if nobody is not standing with us in our fight to save and liberate our brotherz we will think that they all traitorz ..nomatter what...
> and Insha-Allah I hope our Afghan brothers will kill each and every Munafiq/MI6/Mossad /CIA (even if they r in the form of HUT , or any political/religious group) or any evil agent trying to fool our Muslim brotherz and involved in the killingz of our innocent Muslimz...unless they do Taubah and come on right path...
> and I hope the Khilafat will be soon eastablished starting from Khorasaan as it came in many many Hadiths ...Insha-Allah...


 
Right Mr Khorasan... Heres what we need... We will do as you ask us to do... but we need the following...

Rocket Launchers, AKs, a couple of Machine Guns, Some sniper guns, Grenades and Grenade launchers, Kevlar vests with ceramic plates... (if I left something someone please add here... )

After we have all that we will strike the NATO convoy... Now if you cannot provide us with this ammo... just shut up with your demands... 

btw... have you ever participated in an attack on a NATO convoy?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

DaRk WaVe said:


> I want to know a developed country where the state system has amalgamated religion & politics


 
None at present... the current developed countries are all secular... 

but if you ever come across a thing called history then you might be able to read up on what was then called the Caliphate and how successfully it amalgamated religion and politics...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Majnun said:


> Actually someone who admires much of what Musharraf worked for, but has constantly said that before establishing any political party or taking part in Pakistan's politics, he needs to come back to Pakistan. Would you like to attack Imran Khan now? I support him as well. You could attack him for calling for Khilafat while enjoying the comforts of British MI6 life - oh wait..


 
I dont attack Imran Khan because despite his personal misconducts, he speaks the truth on the public front... for that I admire him and also his supporters are all credible people in the UK... 

Correction... I dont attack someone just because you support him... I attacked your idea that someone (imaginary) is pulling the strings of HT from London... 

As for Busharaf... He should be shot for treason against Pakistan... I have maintained my dislike for the man from the very first day I joined this forum and I have urged his supporters to dig deeper the things about him before giving him their vote because he is actually responsible for a LOT of problems we are facing in Pakistan today...

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## 1 ummah

asalamoalikun every one m ok,alhamdullilah,hope u guys watched us on news...we got gud coverage!! brothers in karachi did the speaches as well! ...

http://http://tribune.com.pk/multimedia/slideshows/151366


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## 1 ummah

to judge sum 1 see for whom r results of his actions beneficial! 

so H.T's actions r not at all beneficial for britain or non-muslims! 

but* brothers who r confusing ppl n attacking H.T without prove..ur actions r helpin kufar.. thatis keep muslims dispersed! divide n rule*! 

hope its clear!


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## Icarus

1 ummah said:


> to judge sum 1 see for whom r results of his actions beneficial!
> 
> so H.T's actions r not at all beneficial for britain or non-muslims!
> 
> but* brothers who r confusing ppl n attacking H.T without prove..ur actions r helpin kufar.. thatis keep muslims dispersed! divide n rule*!
> 
> hope its clear!


 
I would like to inquire about H.T's stand on the Taliban..........since it is a very serious issue that the HT never bothers to bring to light.....Well ?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Kakgeta said:


> I would like to inquire about H.T's stand on the Taliban..........since it is a very serious issue that the HT never bothers to bring to light.....Well ?



Sir... 

Do you mean TTP or Taliban?

I remember having a little verbal fight with one of the senior HT members because he was not aware of what the TTP animals had been doing inside Pakistan... however a little explanation to him had the desired effect...

TTP is not supported by HT obviously... they have been against the Pak Army operations however because they think there are better methods dealing with Kharaji/violent elements inside the state... and do not want Pak Army to be seen as a tool of the colonialist US of A... 

They only support those Taliban who fight against NATO because it is a universal right to defend one's land against foreign military...

They never supported the Taliban's attitude towards their people and their so called "Islam"...

Brother 1ummah can correct me if I said something wrong...


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## Icarus

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Sir...
> 
> Do you mean TTP or Taliban?
> 
> I remember having a little verbal fight with one of the senior HT members because he was not aware of what the TTP animals had been doing inside Pakistan... however a little explanation to him had the desired effect...
> 
> TTP is not supported by HT obviously... they have been against the Pak Army operations however because they think there are better methods dealing with Kharaji/violent elements inside the state... and do not want Pak Army to be seen as a tool of the colonialist US of A...
> 
> They only support those Taliban who fight against NATO because it is a universal right to defend one's land against foreign military...
> 
> They never supported the Taliban's attitude towards their people and their so called "Islam"...
> 
> Brother 1ummah can correct me if I said something wrong...


 
So why are the Afghan Taliban acceptable ? Their human rights record even before the American invasion of Afghanistan was hardly enviable. I went to Afghanistan during the Taliban's time in power and I saw no "Allah's Kingdom" all I saw were dust covered roads, burnt out soviet vehicles from the war days, flaking away with time. The Taliban were also not the image of your average "Good Citizens" they were smoking Hash on every checkpoint(and there were alot of check points), on one I saw a Talib flogging a young Hazara, I shouted at him to stop in Pushto and he rudely told me to mind my own business. They killed a lot of people without proper trial in the name of Islam, Dr.Najeeb's body hanging with a neck snapped to one side comes to mind.


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Right Mr Khorasan... Heres what we need... We will do as you ask us to do... but we need the following...
> 
> Rocket Launchers, AKs, a couple of Machine Guns, Some sniper guns, Grenades and Grenade launchers, Kevlar vests with ceramic plates... (if I left something someone please add here... )
> 
> After we have all that we will strike the NATO convoy... Now if you cannot provide us with this ammo... just shut up with your demands...
> 
> btw... have you ever participated in an attack on a NATO convoy?


 
Yes! thats showz that Ur HUT is not Interested in attacking US/NATO to save innocent Muslims, cuz they r their masterz...
....Thnx Thats what I wanted to know....
If by anywayz If u were interested U could have got all this stuff from the Afghan brothers....or DARRA ADAM KHEL
without any problem....by asking me means that that U or HUT are not sincere to save innocent Muslim lives or Islam...
thnx a lot bro ...keep it up....let the innocent Muslims die in Afghanistan and Pakistan....just go with HUT and help their MI6/Mosaad masterz to destroy Pakistan and the Muslim world...
Im very happy with u and ur HUT...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Kakgeta said:


> So why are the Afghan Taliban acceptable ? Their human rights record even before the American invasion of Afghanistan was hardly enviable. I went to Afghanistan during the Taliban's time in power and I saw no "Allah's Kingdom" all I saw were dust covered roads, burnt out soviet vehicles from the war days, flaking away with time. The Taliban were also not the image of your average "Good Citizens" they were smoking Hash on every checkpoint(and there were alot of check points), on one I saw a Talib flogging a young Hazara, I shouted at him to stop in Pushto and he rudely told me to mind my own business. They killed a lot of people without proper trial in the name of Islam, Dr.Najeeb's body hanging with a neck snapped to one side comes to mind.


 
Re read what I posted... I think you missed a line there...


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## Majnun

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> As for Busharaf... *He should be shot for treason against Pakistan...* I have maintained my dislike for the man from the very first day I joined this forum and I have urged his supporters to dig deeper the things about him before giving him their vote because he is actually responsible for a LOT of problems we are facing in Pakistan today...


 


Why? I thought you didn't believe in Pakistan? I thought you only believed in Khilafat?


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## khurasaan1

Majnun said:


> Why? I thought you didn't believe in Pakistan? I thought you only believed in Khilafat?


 
and the Khilafat from HUT only and from nobodyelse.....


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## 1 ummah

Kakgeta said:


> So why are the Afghan Taliban acceptable ? Their human rights record even before the American invasion of Afghanistan was hardly enviable. I went to Afghanistan during the Taliban's time in power and I saw no "Allah's Kingdom" all I saw were dust covered roads, burnt out soviet vehicles from the war days, flaking away with time. The Taliban were also not the image of your average "Good Citizens" they were smoking Hash on every checkpoint(and there were alot of check points), on one I saw a Talib flogging a young Hazara, I shouted at him to stop in Pushto and he rudely told me to mind my own business. They killed a lot of people without proper trial in the name of Islam, Dr.Najeeb's body hanging with a neck snapped to one side comes to mind.


 
i personally think taliban dont have knowledge abt islamic laws n conditions n all...as we all know they were created to be used since soviet union thing n all they r thought is fighting in name of islam for their country,their niya must b pure but their teachers were not scholars but pak army n isi!!?

hope u know wat r conditions n procedure for flogging,do the taliban fulfill them??

n i wud refer u to *naveed but,H.T's spokesman in pakistan..search him on Facebook n he can answer better*

---------- Post added at 05:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 AM ----------




khurasaan1 said:


> and the Khilafat from HUT only and from nobodyelse.....


 
u r horrible bro!


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## 1 ummah

Majnun said:


> Why? I thought you didn't believe in Pakistan? I thought you only believed in Khilafat?


 
just re-read wat MbQ WROTE N WAT U R COMENTING!?????

---------- Post added at 05:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:46 AM ----------






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=196875990349475


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## 1 ummah

those wid green jhndas,on bikes r sunni tehreek,same day


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## khurasaan1

1 ummah said:


> i personally think taliban dont have knowledge abt islamic laws n conditions n all...as we all know they were created to be used since soviet union thing n all they r thought is fighting in name of islam for their country,their niya must b pure but their teachers were not scholars but pak army n isi!!?
> 
> hope u know wat r conditions n procedure for flogging,do the taliban fulfill them??
> 
> n i wud refer u to *naveed but,H.T's spokesman in pakistan..search him on Facebook n he can answer better*
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> u r horrible bro!


 

This is very sad that u think the pplz of Afghanistan and their students of Islamic lawz(Talibaan) dont knw nothing about Islam and have little knowledge...is absurd cuz it negates the Hadiths which came in their favor 1500yrz ago..about Khorasaan...
I guess HUT is illetrate and dont study Hadiths execpt the MI6/Mosaad versions....


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## Bratva

Which System Of Allah You want to implement? the one sunni follows? or the one shias follows? or perhaps the wahabi one, or the deobandi, or the ahl e hadis one, ???

it was widely reported, 70,000 shias, protested when zia ul haq tried to implement the Sharia system. as they say, it was a sunni system being imposed on us.

Fast forward to 2011 pakistan where there is million of Shias in pakistan. 10-20 sects exist in Pakistan. How can you implement the system of Allah here where every sect want to impose their own version of Islam, unable to do so will, will start a sectarian situation.

Talking of ground realities. I firmly believe the Pure Islamic system will only be implemented during "Mehdi" time. Until and unless the talk of Sharia system in Pakistan is like living in fools paradise ignoring harsh ground realities

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

I did a quick google search on the forum...

HT has been discussed on the forum before... Interestingly all of these threads have depicted them in a negative light... this was however before my time on the forum... 

anyway... not talking to the secularists... but everyone else... pay attention to what they say... 

I ll tell you a little secret here... The Indians pay HT a LOT of attention... they are not worried about scumbags like Busharaf... It is organizations like HT that scares them the most... So you Army Jawans need to start studying the material I have provided you on this forum... 

As they say... Know the Truth... and you ll know the Truthful ones...


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> I did a quick google search on the forum...
> 
> HT has been discussed on the forum before... Interestingly all of these threads have depicted them in a negative light... this was however before my time on the forum...
> 
> anyway... not talking to the secularists... but everyone else... pay attention to what they say...
> 
> I ll tell you a little secret here... The Indians pay HT a LOT of attention... they are not worried about scumbags like Busharaf... It is organizations like HT that scares them the most... So you Army Jawans need to start studying the material I have provided you on this forum...
> 
> As they say... Know the Truth... and you ll know the Truthful ones...


 
so why dont u go into their forums and recruit them in HUT...cuz u got soft corner for them...as u said in ure previous post...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> so why dont u go into their forums and recruit them in HUT...cuz u got soft corner for them...as u said in ure previous post...


 
Stop wasting your energy... I m seriously ignoring you from now on...


----------



## somebozo

If your idea of Allah's system is a mullah rule by proxy like Iran then dear we are not going to lead anywhere but plunge further backwards.
One should look at four Kahlifa Rashidoun as role model of Islamic state.

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## Bratva

somebozo said:


> If your idea of Allah's system is a mullah rule by proxy like Iran then dear we are not going to lead anywhere but plunge further backwards.
> One should look at four Kahlifa Rashidoun as role model of Islamic state.


 
The biggest Critics of Khilafat system says that, All But 3 Khalifas Died the un natural death, Khilafat System plunged muslims in to political uncertainty, sow the seeds of division which ultimately divided muslims into sects.

Any ways. Once again. we cannot implement this Role Model of Islamic State in Pakistan. You should also consider Sectarian Divisions in our society before implementing this kind of role model


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

somebozo said:


> If your idea of Allah's system is a mullah rule by proxy like Iran then dear we are not going to lead anywhere but plunge further backwards.
> One should look at four Kahlifa Rashidoun as role model of Islamic state.


 
EXACTLY!!!! well said my dear... 

where have you been??


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Disgusting behavior of Pakistani police... brutally disrupt a peaceful protest... these are the kind of things that bring shame to Pakistan all over the world... 

as if these antics will stop us from achieving our goals... 






The best part was when the guy climbed on top of the Police vehicle... and they were like "KUSHA LANDEY" ... LOL

Zardari Ghadari and the rest of the traitors cannot stop these Lions... NEVER!!!!!


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## Myth_buster_1

mafiya said:


> Which System Of Allah You want to implement? the one sunni follows? or the one shias follows? or perhaps the wahabi one, or the deobandi, or the ahl e hadis one, ???
> 
> it was widely reported, 70,000 shias, protested when zia ul haq tried to implement the Sharia system. as they say, it was a sunni system being imposed on us.
> 
> Fast forward to 2011 pakistan where there is million of Shias in pakistan. 10-20 sects exist in Pakistan. How can you implement the system of Allah here where every sect want to impose their own version of Islam, unable to do so will, will start a sectarian situation.
> 
> Talking of ground realities. I firmly believe the Pure Islamic system will only be implemented during "Mehdi" time. Until and unless the talk of Sharia system in Pakistan is like living in fools paradise ignoring harsh ground realities


 
10 out of 10! well said!

I believe Zia was a Whabi and wanted to implement Saudi style ruling system in Pak.

Btw I am surprised to know Pak has around 10-20 sects of Islam. Please shed some lights on that.


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## Myth_buster_1

somebozo said:


> If your idea of Allah's system is a mullah rule by proxy like Iran then dear we are not going to lead anywhere but plunge further backwards.
> One should look at four Kahlifa Rashidoun as role model of Islamic state.


 
Mullah scums can go to gutter and so should agents like Zaid Hamid. 

Their is no way before Mehdi that Pakistan can have true Islamic system.

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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Stop wasting your energy... I m seriously ignoring you from now on...


 this means u just ignoring the voice of a weak person ..who wanna help save the innocent lives of the Muslim Afghan brotherz from the brutality of US/NATO...

its very very sad to hear that the HUT is not interested in saving the lives of the Muslim brotherz in Afghanistan and in the tribal areas of Pakistan...


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Mullah scums can go to gutter and so should agents like Zaid Hamid.
> 
> Their is no way before Mehdi that Pakistan can have true Islamic system.


 
Very well said bro...u realli knwz the evilz game....im happi bro....


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> The best part was when the guy climbed on top of the Police vehicle... and they were like "KUSHA LANDEY" ... LOL
> 
> Zardari Ghadari and the rest of the traitors cannot stop these Lions... NEVER!!!!!


umm ...taa pukhtoon um ayy...uss mata patta uolagedhah...umm
We knw that Zrdari or otherz cant stop them ..but how about MI6/Mosaad....????


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Stop wasting your energy... I m seriously ignoring you from now on...


 
no bro..u cant run away now ...im gonna follow u whereevr u go...not to hurt u but to correct u...

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## Myth_buster_1

khurasaan1 said:


> Very well said bro...u realli knwz the evilz game....im happi bro....


 
But you failed to realize Jinnah's real game.


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## Bratva

Myth_buster_1 said:


> But you failed to realize Jinnah's real game.


 
You haven't read How Jinnah Was mystically influenced by the sufis of his Time. I firmly believe, Pakistan was made under extraordinary circumstances and has some very important role in future. Jinnah were not a strong follower of Independent Pakistan. Until he was influenced by. Mystics. Who made him believe in the Separate State for muslims which will be the Qillah Of Islam in Future.

I know. Many people will laugh at me. what i'm saying. but i have read books of People Like Shahab nama, A bureaucratic Sufi of Pakistan. Mumtaz Mufti Works, he was closely related to Sufi circles of Pakistan.

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## Bratva

Myth_buster_1 said:


> 10 out of 10! well said!
> 
> I believe Zia was a Whabi and wanted to implement Saudi style ruling system in Pak.
> 
> Btw I am surprised to know Pak has around 10-20 sects of Islam. Please shed some lights on that.


 
Sunni, Braveli, Deobandi, Ahl e Hadis, Shia, Sub Sects of Shia, Ismaili Muslims, Wahabi, and several others


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## Myth_buster_1

mafiya said:


> You haven't read How Jinnah Was mystically influenced by the sufis of his Time. I firmly believe, Pakistan was made under extraordinary circumstances and has some very important role in future. Jinnah were not a strong follower of Independent Pakistan. Until he was influenced by. Mystics. Who made him believe in the Separate State for muslims which will be the Qillah Of Islam in Future.
> 
> I know. Many people will laugh at me. what i'm saying. but i have read books of People Like Shahab nama, A bureaucratic Sufi of Pakistan. Mumtaz Mufti Works, he was closely related to Sufi circles of Pakistan.


 
You see this is the problem.
Sufis, Sunnis, Shais, Aga khanis, Agnostics all want a piece of him. 
In short, he was guided by non other then Britain and Pakistan was in Britian's interest because they wanted to divide Muslim lands according to their desire. However I would never ever ever side with those losers who think Pakistan should have never been separated from India.

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## NaqsheYaar

khurasaan1 said:


> ...is absurd cuz it negates the Hadiths which came in their favor 1500yrz ago..about Khorasaan...


Dr. Israr Ahmed has researched it extensively and he said that historically Khorasaan includes *parts of Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.* This is what Imran Nazar Hussein has also said in one of his videos. It's on youtube.

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## NaqsheYaar

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> The best part was when the guy climbed on top of the Police vehicle... and they were like "KUSHA LANDEY" ... LOL



That means you know pushto!! That makes you extra kewl for me man


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> But you failed to realize Jinnah's real game.


 
Alhamdolillah ! I know his game too...If we sincerely try to get direction about anything from Quran, it showz us everything... nothing is hidden bro...nothing!...No mattr how many faces the Shaitaan changes to decieve pplz, it still can be Identified with the help of Quran and Sunnah of Rasool Allah Sallallah-o-Alai-he- Wasallam only ...Cant decieve pplz who get guidance from Holy Quran and Sunnah of his Habib Rasool Allah Sallallah-o-Alai-he- Wasallam
Quran clearly Says" Laa Qaulu Limaa Laa Taffhaloon" meaning: "Dont say what u dont do.".cuz it is the Khasiah/identity of Munafiq...
I guess u got my point this time...ummm


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## khurasaan1

NaqsheYaar said:


> That means you know pushto!! That makes you extra kewl for me man


To tell u the truth ...within last 10 yearz CIA/MI6 and Mosaad extensively wrked and especially hired pplz speaking Pushto or from Pushto speaking areas gave them asylum and trained trained them... to destabilize the country internally ...and externally ...
thats why we seeing so much hell loose in those areas....


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## khurasaan1

NaqsheYaar said:


> Dr. Israr Ahmed has researched it extensively and he said that historically Khorasaan includes *parts of Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.* This is what Imran Nazar Hussein has also said in one of his videos. It's on youtube.


 
It includes all Afghanistan ..our tribal belt and some part sof Iran touching Afghanistan....bro...that Khorasaan used to be its older name...

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## Majnun

1 ummah said:


> just re-read wat MbQ WROTE N WAT U R COMENTING!?????


 


Yeah, why does he think Musharraf should be shot for treason against Pakistan if he doesn't believe in Pakistan, only in the Khilafat?


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## Majnun

Myth_buster_1 said:


> But you failed to realize Jinnah's real game.


 


What do you mean?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Majnun said:


> Yeah, why does he think Musharraf should be shot for treason against Pakistan if he doesn't believe in Pakistan, only in the Khilafat?


 
Because the current situation of Pakistan with all the bloodshed and killings as well as an idiot like Zardari as President plus things like NRO are gifts of Musharaf to Pakistan... 

What would you want to do with someone who sends you a bomb as a gift parcel in your mail?

Is Musharaf the same as Pakistan? What do you understand by Khilafat? You think Pakistan will disappear under Khilafat? Do you even think before you type?

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

NaqsheYaar said:


> That means you know pushto!! That makes you extra kewl for me man


 
I am from Khorasan  and I carry two Raya at home... inshaAllah going to get two Liwaa as well


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## Majnun

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Because the current situation of Pakistan with all the bloodshed and killings as well as an idiot like Zardari as President plus things like NRO are gifts of Musharaf to Pakistan...
> 
> What would you want to do with someone who sends you a bomb as a gift parcel in your mail?
> 
> Is Musharaf the same as Pakistan? What do you understand by Khilafat? You think Pakistan will disappear under Khilafat? Do you even think before you type?


 


I know that Khilafat as said by the HuT envisions Pakistan disappearing. And whose gifts these bombs are, that's a matter of opinion, some say Bhutto, some say Zia, some say Nawaz Sharif. And as far as Zardari goes, at least I can thank God that he didn't bring Nawaz Sharif.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Majnun said:


> I know that Khilafat as said by the HuT envisions Pakistan disappearing. And whose gifts these bombs are, that's a matter of opinion, some say Bhutto, some say Zia, some say Nawaz Sharif. And as far as Zardari goes, at least I can thank God that he didn't bring Nawaz Sharif.


 
Does the phrase "putting words in someone's mouth" mean anything to you?


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## Majnun

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Does the phrase "putting words in someone's mouth" mean anything to you?


 


I don't know what you're talking about. Each part of my answer was linked to your previous post.

You said we can thank Musharraf for the bombs and Zardari.
I said different people have different views on who is originally to blame for the bombs (ie radicalization in Pakistani society).
And with reference to Zardari, I said, at least its not Nawaz Sharif.

You said do you think Pakistan will disappear under the Khilafat?
I said that yes, under HuT's vision of the Khilafat it will, as I have read extensively on HuT and this is part of their plan.

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## 1 ummah

mafiya said:


> Which System Of Allah You want to implement? the one sunni follows? or the one shias follows? or perhaps the wahabi one, or the deobandi, or the ahl e hadis one, ???
> 
> it was widely reported, 70,000 shias, protested when zia ul haq tried to implement the Sharia system. as they say, it was a sunni system being imposed on us.
> 
> Fast forward to 2011 pakistan where there is million of Shias in pakistan. 10-20 sects exist in Pakistan. How can you implement the system of Allah here where every sect want to impose their own version of Islam, unable to do so will, will start a sectarian situation.
> 
> Talking of ground realities. I firmly believe the Pure Islamic system will only be implemented during "Mehdi" time. Until and unless the talk of Sharia system in Pakistan is like living in fools paradise ignoring harsh ground realities


 
first we as muslim are *obliged to live according to sharia,under 1 khalifa,as isamic state,so its fard to work for its revival*
second *results r ALLAH's hand*s,Allah helps those who help themselves!!
u never know if Imam mehdi's khilafat will b result of this struggle?? 

n wat is *shia sharia*??? sects r allowed in islam as long as shirk not involve..therE r *no big difference amongst other sects*! 
there is *HUGE DIFFERENCE IN ZIA's ISLAMISATION N PURE KHILAFAT*!

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## 1 ummah

somebozo said:


> If your idea of Allah's system is a mullah rule by proxy like Iran then dear we are not going to lead anywhere but plunge further backwards.
> One should look at four Kahlifa Rashidoun as role model of Islamic state.


 
yes brother the khilafa will be simillar to khulafa e rashideen..as the hadith says "*or phir naboowat k naksh e qadam pr khilafat qaim ho gi"*

http://http://www.khilafat.dk/pdfdata/GladTidingsofReturnoftheKhilafah.pdf

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## 1 ummah

Majnun said:


> Yeah, why does he think Musharraf should be shot for treason against Pakistan if he doesn't believe in Pakistan, only in the Khilafat?


 
wat shud he call pakistan?? ok i'll rephrase it 4 ur satisfaction...musharraf shud b shot for treason against muslims living on piece of land between afghanistan,china,india,iran!

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## 1 ummah

.
You said do you think Pakistan will disappear under the Khilafat?
I said that yes said:


> OMG!!! wat do u mean by pakistan disappear?? all countries will become 1 state we can still call it pkistan,but as a wilaya,a part of islamic state!!! just like other countries!!

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## 1 ummah

http://http://www.khilafat.dk/pdfdata/agarkalkhilafatajaee.pdf

agar khilafat kl ajae


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## Majnun

Mere bhai mein tumhare leaders ki books parh chuka hoon tumhare logon se baat kar chuka hoon mujhe pata hai wo Pakistan ko kis nazar se dekhte hai aur India ko kis nazar se.


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## 1 ummah

Majnun said:


> Mere bhai mein tumhare leaders ki books parh chuka hoon tumhare logon se baat kar chuka hoon mujhe pata hai wo Pakistan ko kis nazar se dekhte hai aur India ko kis nazar se.


 
ap halka laytay thay??
kis nzar say???

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## somebozo

To be bluntly honest, Khilafah never really succeeded in history execpt when it was held together by diverting public attention to milltary campaigns.

The first four Khalifa Rashidoon were assasinated one by one out of communal anomosity. After the death of 3rd Caliph, Mawiya wanted to restore hegemony of Ummayds which incitied him to war with Hz Ali which gave rise to Khawariji fitnah. After the assasination of 4th Caliph Ali, Mawiya seized power and appointed in son Yazid. The Banu Ummiya were soo keen on establishing their hegmony that Yazid invaded Makkah and Media to murder numerous sahabas which were the beacons if Islamic knowledge. His thirst wasnt quenched until his sworded were soaked in the blood of prophet beloved Grandson Hz Hussien which led to the rise of Rafidi fitnah. Yazid wasnt really intrested in islam as he was fasiq and fajir but wanted to take revenge of his polythesist releative slain at battle of Badr. Followed by death of Yazid in couple of years his son Mawiyah-II took power briefly albeit not withour conflict with another claimaint of caliphood, Abdullah bin Zubayer.

Muwaiya-II couldnt preside for longer due to his inexperience and guilt for his father crimes and soon abdicated power to Marwan who would go ahead to found the Ummayd Dynasty rule for 100 years sustained through continous millitary expeditions. Then came the challenger Abbasids, claiming to be true caliph due to their lineage with Prophet through his uncle Abbas bin Muttalib and founded the Abbasid caliphate which displaced the Ummayds towards spain. From where the Ummyads would continue to challenge the Abbasids.

The Fatmids then drove out the Abbasids which would result in servere destruction of Islam within and introduction of various cults and heretic rituals. And collaboration with Mongols in invasion of baghdad resulted in destruction of muslim knowledge capital as well massive deaths of muslim population. The Fatmids were replaced by Safvids who would offically persecute muslims of Iran by violent means until it was religiously cleansed and replaced by their version of religion.

The safvid were continously challenged by muslims until they were driven out of power but not witout massive damage to Islamic culture and religion.
The rest is all modern history starting with rise of Mamluk power to eventual rise of ottoman empire.

So as we see, Khilafat has been nothing but bloody struggle of power out of greed and nepotism and mass killing of fellow muslims much more than any forgien enemy. Execpt the period of ottoman who commanded with sheer power and respect in the Islamic history but not for too long and not without problems.

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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> I am from Khorasan  and I carry two Raya at home... inshaAllah going to get two Liwaa as well


 
Did they gave u asylum in Ireland ???....cuz they gave asylum to many pplz from Khorasaan.. so that they can fight against their Muslim brotherz there...and thats why u scared to write anything against US/NATO cuz u might face deportation...???
It is very clear now that the ambition of HUT is not Islam but a covert game to destabilize Pakistan by anywayz..
In this game not only HUT is involved there are many different NGOz and organizations working behind the scenes financing the all over game...They have only one mission to destroy Pakistan on the name of Islam.. 
Alhamdolillah Mark Dehaven( the secret CIA/Mosaad agent is from Virginia the CIA HQ) is gonna be deported tomorrow and his all network under arrest scruitiny...Masha-Allah.
soon Insha-Allah we gonna uncover the sleeping agents in HUT here...
The Fauj of Imaam Mahdi is looking into all munafiqs sent into our country ...they wont find refuge anywhere around the world ..Insha-Allah...as it came into many Hadiths...
Im just trying to alert my fellow Muslim brotherz ..be very careful.. cuz many Shaitaan Agents will try to use them for their Shaitaani Game on the name of Islam and they funding their cause heavily...cuz they are running out of time...

We love implementation of Islam and Khilafat...but not the destruction of Muslims and their property...
The pplz who cant go out against Kafireen (US/NATO) to save innocent Muslims lives (in Afghanistan and Pak tribal areas)cant bring Khilafat....


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> You see this is the problem.
> Sufis, Sunnis, Shais, Aga khanis, Agnostics all want a piece of him.
> In short, he was guided by non other then Britain and Pakistan was in Britian's interest because they wanted to divide Muslim lands according to their desire. However I would never ever ever side with those losers who think Pakistan should have never been separated from India.


But to tell u the truth The real Sufis/Auliyaa-e-Allah will be the driving force behind bringing the Khilafat ...Insha-Allah

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Majnun said:


> I don't know what you're talking about. Each part of my answer was linked to your previous post.
> 
> You said we can thank Musharraf for the bombs and Zardari.
> I said different people have different views on who is originally to blame for the bombs (ie radicalization in Pakistani society).
> And with reference to Zardari, I said, at least its not Nawaz Sharif.
> 
> You said do you think Pakistan will disappear under the Khilafat?
> I said that yes, under HuT's vision of the Khilafat it will, as I have read extensively on HuT and this is part of their plan.



You are a lier who lies without shame... Another person on my ignore list...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

khurasaan1 said:


> Did they gave u asylum in Ireland ???....cuz they gave asylum to many pplz from Khorasaan.. so that they can fight against their Muslim brotherz there...and thats why u scared to write anything against US/NATO cuz u might face deportation...???


 
If you only knew who I was... 

Not only you are ignorant but you are also a fool... Your talk here is now degrading to petty personal insults...

I am warning you to stop... I can play the game of insults too 

bloody idiot...

---------- Post added at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------




1 ummah said:


> ap halka laytay thay??
> kis nzar say???


 
haha... well said... he probably has no idea what you are talking about here... LOL


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

somebozo said:


> To be bluntly honest, Khilafah never really succeeded in history execpt when it was held together by diverting public attention to milltary campaigns.
> 
> The first four Khalifa Rashidoon were assasinated one by one out of communal anomosity. After the death of 3rd Caliph, Mawiya wanted to restore hegemony of Ummayds which incitied him to war with Hz Ali which gave rise to Khawariji fitnah. After the assasination of 4th Caliph Ali, Mawiya seized power and appointed in son Yazid. The Banu Ummiya were soo keen on establishing their hegmony that Yazid invaded Makkah and Media to murder numerous sahabas which were the beacons if Islamic knowledge. His thirst wasnt quenched until his sworded were soaked in the blood of prophet beloved Grandson Hz Hussien which led to the rise of Rafidi fitnah. Yazid wasnt really intrested in islam as he was fasiq and fajir but wanted to take revenge of his polythesist releative slain at battle of Badr. Followed by death of Yazid in couple of years his son Mawiyah-II took power briefly albeit not withour conflict with another claimaint of caliphood, Abdullah bin Zubayer.
> 
> Muwaiya-II couldnt preside for longer due to his inexperience and guilt for his father crimes and soon abdicated power to Marwan who would go ahead to found the Ummayd Dynasty rule for 100 years sustained through continous millitary expeditions. Then came the challenger Abbasids, claiming to be true caliph due to their lineage with Prophet through his uncle Abbas bin Muttalib and founded the Abbasid caliphate which displaced the Ummayds towards spain. From where the Ummyads would continue to challenge the Abbasids.
> 
> The Fatmids then drove out the Abbasids which would result in servere destruction of Islam within and introduction of various cults and heretic rituals. And collaboration with Mongols in invasion of baghdad resulted in destruction of muslim knowledge capital as well massive deaths of muslim population. The Fatmids were replaced by Safvids who would offically persecute muslims of Iran by violent means until it was religiously cleansed and replaced by their version of religion.
> 
> The safvid were continously challenged by muslims until they were driven out of power but not witout massive damage to Islamic culture and religion.
> The rest is all modern history starting with rise of Mamluk power to eventual rise of ottoman empire.
> 
> So as we see, Khilafat has been nothing but bloody struggle of power out of greed and nepotism and mass killing of fellow muslims much more than any forgien enemy. Execpt the period of ottoman who commanded with sheer power and respect in the Islamic history but not for too long and not without problems.


 
a very narrow and shallow minded opinion about the Khilafah...

Khilafah infact has been one of the most successful political systems in mankind's civilization... It is for example only superceded by the Chinese Empire in the time that it lasted... 

You are talking a few examples here which the orientalists have been using to mess up the minds of our young ones... You are probably unaware of the pains that numerous noble Caliphs of Islam's history have taken for the sake of Ummah... The achievements of the Caliphate shall remain obscure from you unless you start studying the system that was in place under the Ummayads, Abbasids and the Ottomans... and that is nt even the gold standard that is going to come next... the system on the method of the Rashideen!!!! inshaAllah

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

@1 ummah...

Bro give my salam to the Shabab in Lahore... Tell them I miss the brothers in Pakistan... also, I think we should disengage from this lot here for a while... we can keep this thread running if something new comes up with regards to our activities... I am sure that my comments and posts here do not require any further evidence that those who call for Khilafat love Pakistan truly and dearly and such antics against us wont work for them (at least I hope the people who run this forum understand this now)... if anything, this forum should be blocking all content from the secularists/PPP/MQM/PML/Musharafites/JUI/JI etc who have actually been in power in different phases and destroyed the Pak Sarzameen... all traitors to the core... shameless in their excesses against the people of Pakistan... 

I have heard somethings in the planning for 7th of May?


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## khurasaan1

Majnun said:


> I don't know what you're talking about. Each part of my answer was linked to your previous post.
> 
> You said we can thank Musharraf for the bombs and Zardari.
> I said different people have different views on who is originally to blame for the bombs (ie radicalization in Pakistani society).
> And with reference to Zardari, I said, at least its not Nawaz Sharif.
> 
> You said do you think Pakistan will disappear under the Khilafat?
> I said that yes, under HuT's vision of the Khilafat it will, as I have read extensively on HuT and this is part of their plan.


 
Yes U are 200% right ...cuz they got secret fund from Mosaad and MI6 and they are funding it extensively right now cuz they are running out of time...but all their tries will go in vain , into the gutter...Insha-Allah....


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> You are a lier who lies without shame... Another person on my ignore list...


 
Give the proof ..cant blame him a lier.......He is a true patriotic Pakistani Muslim not a sell out like u...
He is telling the truth ..Masha-Allah...
Dont be mad ..if I say the truth...


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> If you only knew who I was...
> 
> Not only you are ignorant but you are also a fool... Your talk here is now degrading to petty personal insults...
> 
> I am warning you to stop... I can play the game of insults too
> 
> bloody idiot...
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> haha... well said... he probably has no idea what you are talking about here... LOL



I am very happi to hear such remarks from u...Show us about ureself.. so we could know...who u are...??
How We can trust u ..cuz u never had sympathyz with any innocent Muslim getting killed in Afghanistan or Pakistan..just for ure agenda. to destabilize Pakistan.
Im sorry if my posts made u mad at me ..but what I can do ..I cant stop writing the truth...

@Umma 
Oh okay so u can laugh at me too...I already know what pplz do in other countries especially in Western...he is human too...


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## NaqsheYaar

somebozo said:


> To be bluntly honest, Khilafah never really succeeded in history execpt when it was held together by diverting public attention to milltary campaigns.
> 
> The first four Khalifa Rashidoon were assasinated one by one out of communal anomosity. After the death of 3rd Caliph, Mawiya wanted to restore hegemony of Ummayds which incitied him to war with Hz Ali which gave rise to Khawariji fitnah. After the assasination of 4th Caliph Ali, Mawiya seized power and appointed in son Yazid. The Banu Ummiya were soo keen on establishing their hegmony that Yazid invaded Makkah and Media to murder numerous sahabas which were the beacons if Islamic knowledge. His thirst wasnt quenched until his sworded were soaked in the blood of prophet beloved Grandson Hz Hussien which led to the rise of Rafidi fitnah. Yazid wasnt really intrested in islam as he was fasiq and fajir but wanted to take revenge of his polythesist releative slain at battle of Badr. Followed by death of Yazid in couple of years his son Mawiyah-II took power briefly albeit not withour conflict with another claimaint of caliphood, Abdullah bin Zubayer.
> 
> Muwaiya-II couldnt preside for longer due to his inexperience and guilt for his father crimes and soon abdicated power to Marwan who would go ahead to found the Ummayd Dynasty rule for 100 years sustained through continous millitary expeditions. Then came the challenger Abbasids, claiming to be true caliph due to their lineage with Prophet through his uncle Abbas bin Muttalib and founded the Abbasid caliphate which displaced the Ummayds towards spain. From where the Ummyads would continue to challenge the Abbasids.
> 
> The Fatmids then drove out the Abbasids which would result in servere destruction of Islam within and introduction of various cults and heretic rituals. And collaboration with Mongols in invasion of baghdad resulted in destruction of muslim knowledge capital as well massive deaths of muslim population. The Fatmids were replaced by Safvids who would offically persecute muslims of Iran by violent means until it was religiously cleansed and replaced by their version of religion.
> 
> The safvid were continously challenged by muslims until they were driven out of power but not witout massive damage to Islamic culture and religion.
> The rest is all modern history starting with rise of Mamluk power to eventual rise of ottoman empire.
> 
> So as we see, Khilafat has been nothing but bloody struggle of power out of greed and nepotism and mass killing of fellow muslims much more than any forgien enemy. Execpt the period of ottoman who commanded with sheer power and respect in the Islamic history but not for too long and not without problems.


I agree when one reads Muslim history, at times it really saddens you when you see characters like Yazid, although he ruled in very early period of Muslim history... But we also know that the life-span of Ummate Muhammdi is going to be very short, so such characters happening so early in Muslim history should not come as a surprise...

As Prof. Ahmed Rafique Akhter said, that Allah offered Aqal (I don't know whether it means Nafs, Dil or Rooh as Imam Ghazali calls it. Or it means 'intellect') to Mountains, to skies and so on. But when He offered it to Humans, they accepted it in haste (accepted the challange of doing justice to it...). Prof. sb. says that man 'under-estimated' that challange and he 'over-estimated' himself... So man never did justice to the responsibility of using the gift of his intellect wisely, except for very few people. If we look around ourself, we see most of us living a life of animals & beasts, Ghulamaan-e-Nafs...

In a nutshell, human beings are very unpredictable, and are very much Fallible and Untrustworthy.


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## Myth_buster_1

khurasaan1 said:


> But to tell u the truth The real Sufis/Auliyaa-e-Allah will be the driving force behind bringing the Khilafat ...Insha-Allah


 
OMG, No wonder why you are against HuT (not that i support them)! Sufi originates from Pagan, and Jewish mysticism so I dont want to trust them a bit. 
Prophet Mohammed PBUH was not a Sufi, did not believe in those sufi books so Sufi can not possibly be the driving force behind Khilifa. Only Mehdi will bring pure form of khalifa.


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## NaqsheYaar

Myth_buster_1 said:


> OMG, No wonder why you are against HuT (not that i support them)! Sufi originates from Pagan, and Jewish mysticism so I dont want to trust them a bit.
> Prophet Mohammed PBUH was not a Sufi, did not believe in those sufi books so Sufi can not possibly be the driving force behind Khilifa. Only Mehdi will bring pure form of khalifa.


Man I am not going to reply to your Gibberish here...

What I would say is that everybody with a mouse and keyboard here is trying to judge what Sufism is and what it isn't...

You can see that I have only about a 100 posts on this forum. But now I feel like I have to get the heck out of here. It is as if I am argumentating with a bunch of 15 year olds.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I am really hating the amount of disinformation and ignorance exhibited over here. The words that you utter and write are a sacred duty and trust. Deliver them with utmost care. You would be held responsible for them (if you believe in Afterlife that is...)


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## Myth_buster_1

NaqsheYaar said:


> Man I am not going to reply to your Gibberish here...
> 
> What I would say is that everybody with a mouse and keyboard here is trying to judge what Sufism is and what it isn't...
> 
> You can see that I have only about a 100 posts on this forum. But now I feel like I have to get the heck out of here. It is as if I am argumentating with a bunch of 15 year olds.
> 
> Sorry if I sound harsh, but I am really hating the amount of disinformation and ignorance exhibited over here. The words that you utter and write are a sacred duty and trust. Deliver them with utmost care. You would be held responsible for them *(if you believe in Afterlife that is...*)


 
I believe in afterlife because Allah and prophet Mohammed have commanded us to do so but not for Sufisim because its a newly invented matter.

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## NaqsheYaar

Myth_buster_1 said:


> I believe in afterlife because Allah and prophet Mohammed have commanded us to do so but not for Sufisim because its a newly invented matter.


OK great, good for you Sir!!
I am not going to tell you what you should say and what you shouldn't. Say what you will.


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> OMG, No wonder why you are against HuT (not that i support them)! Sufi originates from Pagan, and Jewish mysticism so I dont want to trust them a bit.
> Prophet Mohammed PBUH was not a Sufi, did not believe in those sufi books so Sufi can not possibly be the driving force behind Khilifa. Only Mehdi will bring pure form of khalifa.


 
Bro.. I guess u dont know about sufis then...they r not what u read from Kafireenz books..they r the ones like Hazrat Daatta Gunj Baksh, Ali Hajveeri , Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani, Hazrat Imaam Ghazali and Hazrat Mujaddid Alfe Saani..etc... Rehmatullah Alaihai....
and Hazrat Imaam Mahdi will come in the Roohani order of Hazrat Mujaddid Alfe Saani...in NaqashBandya...Silsilaa....
I guess if u know above Auliyaa Allah then... U will know what I mean....

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## somebozo

khurasaan1 said:


> But to tell u the truth The real Sufis/Auliyaa-e-Allah will be the driving force behind bringing the Khilafat ...Insha-Allah


 Only if they can convience the whole world to get high on afgani stuff and dance by the graves.




Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> a very narrow and shallow minded opinion about the Khilafah...
> 
> Khilafah infact has been one of the most successful political systems in mankind's civilization... It is for example only superceded by the Chinese Empire in the time that it lasted...
> 
> You are talking a few examples here which the orientalists have been using to mess up the minds of our young ones... You are probably unaware of the pains that numerous noble Caliphs of Islam's history have taken for the sake of Ummah... The achievements of the Caliphate shall remain obscure from you unless you start studying the system that was in place under the Ummayads, Abbasids and the Ottomans... and that is nt even the gold standard that is going to come next... the system on the method of the Rashideen!!!! inshaAllah


 
I was trying to summarize it as much as possible but Khilafah was only used as an excuse to impose their lineange for example the Ummayads and Abbasids or their version of religion like Fatmids and Safvids. Only an ottoman type system can work out today which was quite liberal and secular as the empire was controled by individual royals with centralized army, economy and currency. Sort of like capitalist socialism.

Lets have it with a pinch of salt, if it was not for the lover of power and riches we will not have the tons of fitnah today .

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## 1 ummah

somebozo said:


> To be bluntly honest, Khilafah never really succeeded in history execpt when it was held together by diverting public attention to milltary campaigns.
> 
> The first four Khalifa Rashidoon were assasinated one by one out of communal anomosity. After the death of 3rd Caliph, Mawiya wanted to restore hegemony of Ummayds which incitied him to war with Hz Ali which gave rise to Khawariji fitnah. After the assasination of 4th Caliph Ali, Mawiya seized power and appointed in son Yazid. The Banu Ummiya were soo keen on establishing their hegmony that Yazid invaded Makkah and Media to murder numerous sahabas which were the beacons if Islamic knowledge. His thirst wasnt quenched until his sworded were soaked in the blood of prophet beloved Grandson Hz Hussien which led to the rise of Rafidi fitnah. Yazid wasnt really intrested in islam as he was fasiq and fajir but wanted to take revenge of his polythesist releative slain at battle of Badr. Followed by death of Yazid in couple of years his son Mawiyah-II took power briefly albeit not withour conflict with another claimaint of caliphood, Abdullah bin Zubayer.
> 
> Muwaiya-II couldnt preside for longer due to his inexperience and guilt for his father crimes and soon abdicated power to Marwan who would go ahead to found the Ummayd Dynasty rule for 100 years sustained through continous millitary expeditions. Then came the challenger Abbasids, claiming to be true caliph due to their lineage with Prophet through his uncle Abbas bin Muttalib and founded the Abbasid caliphate which displaced the Ummayds towards spain. From where the Ummyads would continue to challenge the Abbasids.
> 
> The Fatmids then drove out the Abbasids which would result in servere destruction of Islam within and introduction of various cults and heretic rituals. And collaboration with Mongols in invasion of baghdad resulted in destruction of muslim knowledge capital as well massive deaths of muslim population. The Fatmids were replaced by Safvids who would offically persecute muslims of Iran by violent means until it was religiously cleansed and replaced by their version of religion.
> 
> The safvid were continously challenged by muslims until they were driven out of power but not witout massive damage to Islamic culture and religion.
> The rest is all modern history starting with rise of Mamluk power to eventual rise of ottoman empire.
> 
> So as we see, Khilafat has been nothing but bloody struggle of power out of greed and nepotism and mass killing of fellow muslims much more than any forgien enemy. Execpt the period of ottoman who commanded with sheer power and respect in the Islamic history but not for too long and not without problems.


 
ya n we r living in this *peaceful world** full of LOVE n HARMONY*!! no body wants power,world is full of justice n equality!! we shud stick ti it!!

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## 1 ummah

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> @1 ummah...
> 
> Bro give my salam to the Shabab in Lahore... Tell them I miss the brothers in Pakistan... also, I think we should disengage from this lot here for a while... we can keep this thread running if something new comes up with regards to our activities... I am sure that my comments and posts here do not require any further evidence that those who call for Khilafat love Pakistan truly and dearly and such antics against us wont work for them (at least I hope the people who run this forum understand this now)... if anything, this forum should be blocking all content from the secularists/PPP/MQM/PML/Musharafites/JUI/JI etc who have actually been in power in different phases and destroyed the Pak Sarzameen... all traitors to the core... shameless in their excesses against the people of Pakistan...
> 
> I have heard somethings in the planning for 7th of May?


 
sure,u from lahore? i dont know abt 7th may thing yet!


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## 1 ummah

somebozo said:


> Only if they can convience the whole world to get high on afgani stuff and dance by the graves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was trying to summarize it as much as possible but Khilafah was only used as an excuse to impose their lineange for example the Ummayads and Abbasids or their version of religion like Fatmids and Safvids. Only an ottoman type system can work out today which was quite liberal and secular as the empire was controled by individual royals with centralized army, economy and currency. Sort of like capitalist socialism.
> 
> Lets have it with a pinch of salt, if it was not for the lover of power and riches we will not have the tons of fitnah today .


 
just noticed ur avatar


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## dawud123

khurasaan1 said:


> But to tell u the truth The real Sufis/Auliyaa-e-Allah will be the driving force behind bringing the Khilafat ...Insha-Allah


 
The great Arif Imam khomeini has already started the process of Islamic revival by a successful Islamic Revolution.


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## araz

[*To be bluntly honest, Khilafah never really succeeded in history execpt when it was held together by diverting public attention to milltary campaigns.

The first four Khalifa Rashidoon were assasinated one by one out of communal anomosity. After the death of 3rd Caliph, Mawiya wanted to restore hegemony of Ummayds which incitied him to war with Hz Ali which gave rise to Khawariji fitnah. After the assasination of 4th Caliph Ali, Mawiya seized power and appointed in son Yazid. The Banu Ummiya were soo keen on establishing their hegmony that Yazid invaded Makkah and Media to murder numerous sahabas which were the beacons if Islamic knowledge. His thirst wasnt quenched until his sworded were soaked in the blood of prophet beloved Grandson Hz Hussien which led to the rise of Rafidi fitnah. Yazid wasnt really intrested in islam as he was fasiq and fajir but wanted to take revenge of his polythesist releative slain at battle of Badr. Followed by death of Yazid in couple of years his son Mawiyah-II took power briefly albeit not withour conflict with another claimaint of caliphood, Abdullah bin Zubayer.

Muwaiya-II couldnt preside for longer due to his inexperience and guilt for his father crimes and soon abdicated power to Marwan who would go ahead to found the Ummayd Dynasty rule for 100 years sustained through continous millitary expeditions. Then came the challenger Abbasids, claiming to be true caliph due to their lineage with Prophet through his uncle Abbas bin Muttalib and founded the Abbasid caliphate which displaced the Ummayds towards spain. From where the Ummyads would continue to challenge the Abbasids.

The Fatmids then drove out the Abbasids which would result in servere destruction of Islam within and introduction of various cults and heretic rituals. And collaboration with Mongols in invasion of baghdad resulted in destruction of muslim knowledge capital as well massive deaths of muslim population. The Fatmids were replaced by Safvids who would offically persecute muslims of Iran by violent means until it was religiously cleansed and replaced by their version of religion.

The safvid were continously challenged by muslims until they were driven out of power but not witout massive damage to Islamic culture and religion.
The rest is all modern history starting with rise of Mamluk power to eventual rise of ottoman empire.

So as we see, Khilafat has been nothing but bloody struggle of power out of greed and nepotism and mass killing of fellow muslims much more than any forgien enemy. Execpt the period of ottoman who commanded with sheer power and respect in the Islamic history but not for too long and not without problems.
Original Post By somebozo* 

One little correction!!! the fitna of the Khawarij started during the time of Hazrat Uthman and resulted in his Shahadat. A testamanet to the love and respect amongst the Ahl e bait and Hazrat Usman RA was that the gates of the masque he was in were guarded by Hassan and Hussain Ibn Ali(may Allah be pleased with them both). If iremember correctly Hazrat Hussain was injured in the struggle that led to hazrat usman,s Shahadat>
Araz

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## Bratva

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro.. I guess u dont know about sufis then...they r not what u read from Kafireenz books..they r the ones like Hazrat Daatta Gunj Baksh, Ali Hajveeri , Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani, Hazrat Imaam Ghazali and Hazrat Mujaddid Alfe Saani..etc... Rehmatullah Alaihai....
> and Hazrat Imaam Mahdi will come in the Roohani order of Hazrat Mujaddid Alfe Saani...in NaqashBandya...Silsilaa....
> I guess if u know above Auliyaa Allah then... U will know what I mean....


 
Get your facts straight Mr. Imam mehdi lineage belongs to aal-e-rasool. so many hadiths about this fact. A person of Imam Mehdi Stature behind Whom Hazrat Essa will pray. needs not to belong from any Sufi order.


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## dawud123

mafiya said:


> Get your facts straight Mr. Imam mehdi lineage belongs to aal-e-rasool. so many hadiths about this fact. A person of Imam Mehdi Stature behind Whom Hazrat Essa will pray. needs not to belong from any Sufi order.



There are different views about Imam Mehdi A.S. between shias and sunnis.

The Shia believe that Imam al-Mahdi is the only son of Imam Hasan al-Askari (the 11th Imam) who was born on the 15th of Sha'ban 255/869 in Samarra, Iraq. Imam al-Mahdi went into occultation (disappearance; leaving among people while he is not identified) and he will re-appear when Allah wills. More specifically: 

His lineage: 
Muhammad Ibn al-Hasan Ibn Ali Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn Musa Ibn Ja'far Sadiq Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib (AS). 

On the other hand, most Sunnis are not so sure that he has been born yet! They believe he will be born some time before his mission.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

shamsheri said:


> There are different views about Imam Mehdi A.S. between shias and sunnis.
> 
> The Shia believe that Imam al-Mahdi is the only son of Imam Hasan al-Askari (the 11th Imam) who was born on the 15th of Sha'ban 255/869 in Samarra, Iraq. Imam al-Mahdi went into occultation (disappearance; leaving among people while he is not identified) and he will re-appear when Allah wills. More specifically:
> 
> His lineage:
> Muhammad Ibn al-Hasan Ibn Ali Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn Musa Ibn Ja'far Sadiq Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib (AS).
> 
> On the other hand, most Sunnis are not so sure that he has been born yet! They believe he will be born some time before his mission.


 
It has been ages I met my shia friends... this post of yours reminded me that I needed to ask a shia what is the basis of this occulatation theory in shia literature? Is it mentioned by any of the 11 Imam's quotations or a Jafari fiqh Hadith?


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## khurasaan1

mafiya said:


> Get your facts straight Mr. Imam mehdi lineage belongs to aal-e-rasool. so many hadiths about this fact. A person of Imam Mehdi Stature behind Whom Hazrat Essa will pray. needs not to belong from any Sufi order.


 
Yes! he is from AAl-e-Rasool Allah Sallallah-o-Alaih-e Wasallam...He is from Madina...In my posts I gave reference for one book..
"Maktoobaate Imaam Rabbani by Hazrat Mujaddid Alfe Saani ...get it in 3 jild translation not the cheap 2 jilds"
If u read it U will find so many Hadiths about him and u dont have to ask anybody then...My last post showed his spiritual aspect/shajrah....not his physical Shajrah/heridity..

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## dawud123

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> It has been ages I met my shia friends... this post of yours reminded me that I needed to ask a shia what is the basis of this occulatation theory in shia literature? Is it mentioned by any of the 11 Imam's quotations or a Jafari fiqh Hadith?


 
Please follow the link
Imam Mahdi - Contents

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

shamsheri said:


> Please follow the link
> Imam Mahdi - Contents


 
wow... that is quite detailed and would require a lot of time for analysis... jazakAllah Khair for this bro...

I quickly glanced thru and I think the closest to what I m looking for is this...

The hadith is reported by 'Abd Allah b. Fadl Hashimi. He relates:

* Imam Sadiq said: "The one entrusted with the command will necessarily live an invisible life. This will lead those who are already astray into doubt." So I asked the Imam the reason. He said: "I am not permitted to reveal the reason." I went on to seek the philosophy behind the invisible life [of the Imam of the Age].*

He said: "It is the same wisdom that existed in the prior situation when other proofs of God also went into occultation. However, the true understanding behind this occurrence will not take place until after he has reappeared, just as the wisdom behind making the boat defective, killing the boy, and repairing the falling wall [in the story of Moses and Khidr in the Qur'an] were revealed to Moses only after the two had decided to part company. O the son of Fadl! The subject of occultation is among the divine secrets and a concealed matter whose knowledge is only with God. Since we regard God to be wise we must also affirm that His acts are based on that perfect wisdom, even when the detailed understanding is not accessible to us."

....

This still does nt explain the whole idea... Living an invisible life does nt necassarily mean someone is born and then goes into occultation... but anyway... Would like to read the bit about Ibn Khuldoon's criticism of the issue of occultation... 

....

Masalam

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## 1 ummah

http://http://www.nawaiwaqt.com.pk/E-Paper/Lahore/2011-04-23/page-11/detail-9


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

1 ummah said:


> http://http://www.nawaiwaqt.com.pk/E-Paper/Lahore/2011-04-23/page-11/detail-9


 
Link not working brother...


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## roadrunner

Hizb ut Tahrir are a very confused bunch of individuals. 

They appear to live in a fool's paradise. The Caliphate would not be a bad idea in the Muslim world, but everything else is a complete step in the wrong direction. They would try asserting a strict religious code (a backward one in my opinion) that the majority of Muslims, at least in Pakistan, do not adhere to. 

Their belief is that they will bring about non-violent revolution by befriending the Pakistani military elite and converting them to their ideology. Hilariously stupid I know, but true. What is sad is that they have a small number of followers (they believe it to be many), that believe this to be true. 

One thing the protests in Egypt, Tunisia etc showed, is that a system such as HuT proposes is not wanted, or is a long way away. There was an opportunity for HuT to make inroads into those countries that all fell at the same time. But instead they made none  

Following establishment of the Caliphate they would create laws that the majority in the Muslim world, and more importantly Pakistan, do not currently adhere to. They would regard lands outside the Caliphate as Dar-ul-Harb, or permissible to be in a state of conflict with. 

So what we have here is that HuT is an organization based around fascism.

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## AUz

Instead of dreaming about Caliphate,all Muslim States should focus on their *economy*.For God's sake,by 2020 Muslim population will increase to *2.2 billion*...How you gonna feed them? Today,I believe,Islam is on cross-roads.Where ever you go,Islam is in the spot light.I remember on an Israeli forum under the section "Religion",there were ~3,000 threads on Islam while Christianity came on second number with 231 threads...Can you see the difference? Moreover,almost ALL threads were anti-Islam.Propaganda against Islam is at his peak.Specially,on internet it is unbearable.Any news related to Islam on Yahoo News will have atleast 80,000 comments and majority of them would be 'severe Islam bashing'.I know some haters (Christian Missionaries/Apologists or their Fan pages on Facebook etc) that will post every single crime done by Muslim anywhere in the world and then relate it to Islam.Poor brainwashed Western audience are being filled with severe hate against Islam.All these things can have disastrous consequences.So instead of dreaming about Caliphate,Muslims should prepare themselves for the challenges they are facing or might be facing.

Focus on *economy,education,science and technology and social sciences* is absolute necessary for the Muslim world.Muslims should learn from their cousins,Jews.Fortunately,Islam is a global religion (In absolute true sense of the word) and can't be threatened and persecuted the way Jews were threatened and persecuted in Europe and other places through out their history but we should learn from Jewish history.*No one will help you or save you.You have to work for your betterment/protection/progress by your own.*

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## NaqsheYaar

AUz said:


> Instead of dreaming about Caliphate,all Muslim States should focus on their *economy*.For God's sake,by 2020 Muslim population will increase to *2.2 billion*...How you gonna feed them? Today,I believe,Islam is on cross-roads.Where ever you go,Islam is in the spot light.I remember on an Israeli forum under the section "Religion",there were ~3,000 threads on Islam while Christianity came on second number with 231 threads...Can you see the difference? Moreover,almost ALL threads were anti-Islam.Propaganda against Islam is at his peak.Specially,on internet it is unbearable.Any news related to Islam on Yahoo News will have atleast 80,000 comments and majority of them would be 'severe Islam bashing'.I know some haters (Christian Missionaries/Apologists or their Fan pages on Facebook etc) that will post every single crime done by Muslim anywhere in the world and then relate it to Islam.Poor brainwashed Western audience are being filled with severe hate against Islam.All these things can have disastrous consequences.So instead of dreaming about Caliphate,Muslims should prepare themselves for the challenges they are facing or might be facing.
> 
> Focus on *economy,education,science and technology and social sciences* is absolute necessary for the Muslim world.Muslims should learn from their cousins,Jews.Fortunately,Islam is a global religion (In absolute true sense of the word) and can't be threatened and persecuted the way Jews were threatened and persecuted in Europe and other places through out their history but we should learn from Jewish history.*No one will help you or save you.You have to work for your betterment/protection/progress by your own.*


Very well said my friend!!
But you see we Muslims don't have any guidance right now. We are an idealogically scattered bunch of people, with so many sects and factions striving for their own versions of Islam. That's why we need a true guide, and that's why people like me cannot trust anybody's lead. We don't have any ideal personalities in the Muslim world today, or even the non-muslim world.
Individual struggle or excellence alone would not bail us out of this sinking ship of human civilization.

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## Ahmad

NaqsheYaar said:


> Very well said my friend!!
> But you see we Muslims don't have any guidance right now. We are an idealogically scattered bunch of people, with so many sects and factions striving for their own versions of Islam. *That's why we need a true guide,* and that's why people like me cannot trust anybody's lead. We don't have any ideal personalities in the Muslim world today, or even the non-musim world.
> Individual struggle or excellence alone would not bail us out of this sinking ship of human civilization.


 
may i ask who that true guide be? from which sect, country etc?


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## NaqsheYaar

Ahmad said:


> may i ask who that true guide be? from which sect, country etc?


We don't know for sure yet. Somebody whom all would agree upon. And he would not just come out of no where, the Muslim ummah would be calling out and praying for him, out of dire need... I am talking about Imam Mahdi of course. And his time is around the corner i think, in my opinion 2.5-3 years...


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## khurasaan1

Ahmad said:


> may i ask who that true guide be? from which sect, country etc?


 
Bro.. There is one hadith..." there will be 73 sects in my ummah and 72 of them will be in Jahannam (based opn Aqeedah not just Ammal) only one will be Najiya(based on Aqeedah)"
Some shabi asked Rasool Allah (Sallallaho -Alaihe-Wasallam) " who is Najiya"
Rasool Allah (Sallallaho -Alaihe-Wasallam) replied " The one who will follow me and my sahabah"
the Imaam Ghazali (Rehmatullah Alaiheh) explained in his books "Kemya-e-Sahadat" and "Abu-Almuntahi" that the pplz who gonna follow Rasool Allah and Sahabah and Auliyaa Allah with Aqeedah Ahle Sunnah walJamah will be the Firqah -e-Najiya....
Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani (Rehmatullah Alaiheh) also said in his book "Alfattah-e-Rabbani " the same thing..
Hazrat Mujaddid Alfe Saani (Rehmatullah Alaiheh ) also explained about this hadith in his book " Maktoobaat-e- Imaam Rabbaani" the same thing...
You will see the same findingz in all Auliyae-Allah books...
There r many Hadiths that explains about Khorasaan (in end times) that its pplz gonna bring back Islam to life and power...

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## khurasaan1

NaqsheYaar said:


> Very well said my friend!!
> But you see we Muslims don't have any guidance right now. We are an idealogically scattered bunch of people, with so many sects and factions striving for their own versions of Islam. That's why we need a true guide, and that's why people like me cannot trust anybody's lead. We don't have any ideal personalities in the Muslim world today, or even the non-muslim world.
> Individual struggle or excellence alone would not bail us out of this sinking ship of human civilization.


 Bro. In hadiths it came like that " Allah is going to send mujaddids in every century to revive/strengthen Islam till the time of Qiyamah....These Mujaddids are infact Auliyaa Allah of their time, do their duty of strengthening Islam and pass away...they never get dictation from any agency of the world... except the Roohaani guidance from Quran , Sunnah and Auliyaa Allah of their time and Ilhaams as well( which is not against Quran and Sunnah).
Their all Amal is just for the Razaa of Allah and his Rasool Sallallah-o-Alaihe Wasallam....

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## Stumper

NaqsheYaar said:


> We don't know for sure yet. Somebody whom all would agree upon. And he would not just come out of no where, the Muslim ummah would be calling out and praying for him, out of dire need... I am talking about Imam Mahdi of course. And his time is around the corner i think, in my opinion 2.5-3 years...


 
I admit, being a Hindu i do not know much about Islam. But this Imam Mahdi or True Guide , has he been mentioned in Quran? . If its only Hadiths, then dont you think your wait is wrong to start with?

None the less, if you claim Ummah will decide who this person is, then you violate the base premise of prophet muhammed , that Quran and Allah's is the last/final word?


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

AUz said:


> Instead of dreaming about Caliphate,all Muslim States should focus on their *economy*.For God's sake,by 2020 Muslim population will increase to *2.2 billion*...How you gonna feed them? Today,I believe,Islam is on cross-roads.Where ever you go,Islam is in the spot light.I remember on an Israeli forum under the section "Religion",there were ~3,000 threads on Islam while Christianity came on second number with 231 threads...Can you see the difference? Moreover,almost ALL threads were anti-Islam.Propaganda against Islam is at his peak.Specially,on internet it is unbearable.Any news related to Islam on Yahoo News will have atleast 80,000 comments and majority of them would be 'severe Islam bashing'.I know some haters (Christian Missionaries/Apologists or their Fan pages on Facebook etc) that will post every single crime done by Muslim anywhere in the world and then relate it to Islam.Poor brainwashed Western audience are being filled with severe hate against Islam.All these things can have disastrous consequences.So instead of dreaming about Caliphate,Muslims should prepare themselves for the challenges they are facing or might be facing.
> 
> Focus on *economy,education,science and technology and social sciences* is absolute necessary for the Muslim world.Muslims should learn from their cousins,Jews.Fortunately,Islam is a global religion (In absolute true sense of the word) and can't be threatened and persecuted the way Jews were threatened and persecuted in Europe and other places through out their history but we should learn from Jewish history.*No one will help you or save you.You have to work for your betterment/protection/progress by your own.*


 

I agree with your facts but are you gonna subside your religion because the world thinks it is bad. I mean when was Islam the most popular religion. People in all times opposed it. But Muslims stood with Allah's orders.


*AND ABOVE ALL*

- - I want to make this clear to everyone that Islam is not a religion it is DIN. And we don't have to neglect Islam for progressing in Economy, Education, Science etc etc. . The SYSTEM OF ALLAH covers it all. . .

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Stumper said:


> I admit, being a Hindu i do not know much about Islam. But this Imam Mahdi or True Guide , has he been mentioned in Quran? . If its only Hadiths, then dont you think your wait is wrong to start with?
> 
> None the less, if you claim Ummah will decide who this person is, then you violate the base premise of prophet muhammed , that Quran and Allah's is the last/final word?


 

well, there are distinctions in Hadiths in the case of its reliability. No sect refuses the arrival of Imam Mahdi; the issue between them is its selection. . .

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## khurasaan1

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> well, there are distinctions in Hadiths in the case of its reliability. No sect refuses the arrival of Imam Mahdi; the issue between them is its selection. . .


 
there is no issue on his selection...cuz he will have open Kiramah(similiar to miracles but not a miracle)...which the fake ones cant have....same like miracles the fake prophets cant have...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

AUz said:


> Instead of dreaming about Caliphate,all Muslim States should focus on their *economy*.For God's sake,by 2020 Muslim population will increase to *2.2 billion*...How you gonna feed them? Today,I believe,Islam is on cross-roads.Where ever you go,Islam is in the spot light.I remember on an Israeli forum under the section "Religion",there were ~3,000 threads on Islam while Christianity came on second number with 231 threads...Can you see the difference? Moreover,almost ALL threads were anti-Islam.Propaganda against Islam is at his peak.Specially,on internet it is unbearable.Any news related to Islam on Yahoo News will have atleast 80,000 comments and majority of them would be 'severe Islam bashing'.I know some haters (Christian Missionaries/Apologists or their Fan pages on Facebook etc) that will post every single crime done by Muslim anywhere in the world and then relate it to Islam.Poor brainwashed Western audience are being filled with severe hate against Islam.All these things can have disastrous consequences.So instead of dreaming about Caliphate,Muslims should prepare themselves for the challenges they are facing or might be facing.
> 
> Focus on *economy,education,science and technology and social sciences* is absolute necessary for the Muslim world.Muslims should learn from their cousins,Jews.Fortunately,Islam is a global religion (In absolute true sense of the word) and can't be threatened and persecuted the way Jews were threatened and persecuted in Europe and other places through out their history but we should learn from Jewish history.*No one will help you or save you.You have to work for your betterment/protection/progress by your own.*


 
Someone thinks rant...

?? what the hell is that all about AuZ... you really think Muslims are going to sort out their economy without the Caliphate... based on Capitalism which is actually the root cause of our misery today?? 

Be a little sensible dear brother... You think talk of Caliphate is talk of establishing some sort of ruling? nay... it is but a complete ideology... If you are sincere about your claim of improving ourselves then you need to read the books I posted on this very thread and discuss the points raised in these books...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

roadrunner said:


> Hizb ut Tahrir are a very confused bunch of individuals.
> 
> They appear to live in a fool's paradise. The Caliphate would not be a bad idea in the Muslim world, but everything else is a complete step in the wrong direction. They would try asserting a strict religious code (a backward one in my opinion) that the majority of Muslims, at least in Pakistan, do not adhere to.
> 
> Their belief is that they will bring about non-violent revolution by befriending the Pakistani military elite and converting them to their ideology. Hilariously stupid I know, but true. What is sad is that they have a small number of followers (they believe it to be many), that believe this to be true.
> 
> One thing the protests in Egypt, Tunisia etc showed, is that a system such as HuT proposes is not wanted, or is a long way away. There was an opportunity for HuT to make inroads into those countries that all fell at the same time. But instead they made none
> 
> Following establishment of the Caliphate they would create laws that the majority in the Muslim world, and more importantly Pakistan, do not currently adhere to. They would regard lands outside the Caliphate as Dar-ul-Harb, or permissible to be in a state of conflict with.
> 
> So what we have here is that HuT is an organization based around fascism.


 
and since when are you important enough for anyone to take you seriously?

listen mate... anyone can come and post here accusations, lies and words like fascism... The military in Pakistan may have traitors but you dont think of them as fools... they ll befriend those whom they trust and they dont need your wisdom to guide them an inch... you obviously have no idea the inroads HuT has already made inside Pakistan's military... 


The day of victory is coming soon inshaAllah... They will make you adhere to Islam and if you do not... well... off with your head then innit? 

btw... are you inspired by the Quilliam Foundation?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Stumper said:


> I admit, being a Hindu i do not know much about Islam. But this Imam Mahdi or True Guide , has he been mentioned in Quran? . If its only Hadiths, then dont you think your wait is wrong to start with?
> 
> None the less, if you claim Ummah will decide who this person is, then you violate the base premise of prophet muhammed , that Quran and Allah's is the last/final word?


 
Imam Mahdi is in the Hadith and there are lots of these Hadith's... His significance is for two reasons... firstly he will be the best Caliphs during end times for the world... secondly he will destroy the Anti Christ and the system that we live under today... another aspect obviously is that both Shia and Sunni will accept his Imamate... and lastly... once opposition to Islam ends during his time, the world will witness massive materialistic and spirtual benefits... a time when there wont be poor... when meat shall be expensive because each and every corner of earth would be cultivated with grain crops... technology would have a purpose to serve humans instead of just making money for the Capitalists... etc... these are a few things that would make him prominent... and also the return of the Prophet Isa AS and him following the Imam of Muslims in prayer...

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## roadrunner

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> and since when are you important enough for anyone to take you seriously?



Obviously you do.


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## AUz

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Someone thinks rant...
> 
> ?? what the hell is that all about AuZ... *you really think Muslims are going to sort out their economy without the Caliphate... based on Capitalism which is actually the root cause of our misery today?? *
> 
> Be a little sensible dear brother... You think talk of Caliphate is talk of establishing some sort of ruling? nay... it is but a complete ideology... If you are sincere about your claim of improving ourselves then you need to read the books I posted on this very thread and discuss the points raised in these books...


 
Look,when you fall in a dirty pool...you have to swim through that dirty pool in order to get out and save your life.

If you think capitalism is bad then its OK..but you have to "swim well in capitalism" in order to get out.Let me break it for you...If not capitalism then what? A new economic model right? Cool but how will you implement this economic model if you don't even have any economic power or any say in global economic matters? Suppose today if Muslim world had combine economic power of 30 trillions...and we decide to adapt a new economic model (NOT suddenly but through a gradual and well planned change) then we would be in much,much better position to _actually_ do that.But look at us today..where are we? NO WHERE ! We can only talk and talk but can't do nothing. What is our progress? In today's global village,who will listen to us? no one. So,rather living in dreams ...it is better for us to start working. "Economy" is the key in 21st century. . . How will you form a "Caliphate" ? Don't you see the 'love' of Arabs and Persians? Its better to first form some kind of respectable and practical alliance..Weak states forming caliphate is of no use.."Strong" States co-operating for the protection,progress,betterment etc sounds like a better and (to some extent) a practical idea. Restructure and rename OIC and make it a influential organization. . .


By the way,can you post the names of the books you are mentioning about in your post?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

AUz said:


> Look,when you fall in a dirty pool...you have to swim through that dirty pool in order to get out and save your life.
> 
> If you think capitalism is bad then its OK..but you have to "swim well in capitalism" in order to get out.Let me break it for you...If not capitalism then what? A new economic model right? Cool but how will you implement this economic model if you don't even have any economic power or any say in global economic matters? Suppose today if Muslim world had combine economic power of 30 trillions...and we decide to adapt a new economic model (NOT suddenly but through a gradual and well planned change) then we would be in much,much better position to _actually_ do that.But look at us today..where are we? NO WHERE ! We can only talk and talk but can't do nothing. What is our progress? In today's global village,who will listen to us? no one. So,rather living in dreams ...it is better for us to start working. "Economy" is the key in 21st century. . . How will you form a "Caliphate" ? Don't you see the 'love' of Arabs and Persians? Its better to first form some kind of respectable and practical alliance..Weak states forming caliphate is of no use.."Strong" States co-operating for the protection,progress,betterment etc sounds like a better and (to some extent) a practical idea. Restructure and rename OIC and make it a influential organization. . .
> 
> By the way,can you post the names of the books you are mentioning about in your post?




Let me get it right... these are the things you are asking here...

1. How will we form the Caliphate... (this part I think would be pointless to discuss considering the Caliphate is already a done deal... how did Musharaf become the President of Pakistan? How did Lenin come to power in Russia? What swept dictators like Mubarak off their thrones after they had been in cruel power for multiple decades? The Caliphate my dear is a done deal... Its way beyond us at this stage... The best you and I can do now is to learn what makes the Caliphate a Caliphate... this recognition is important because the enemies are going to exert a lot of power now to divert everyone's attention from the real goals and aims... and confuse everyone with their attempts to hijack Islam... 

2. What happens in a Caliphate? Would nt it be better if we had more money before the Caliphate came? In one word... No... because the nature of wealth and money in the two systems is different... Capitalism works on fait currency system and fractional reserve banking... Islam has the gold standard and the Bait ul Maal... these two systems are world's apart... The paper currency you hold in your hands today has no intrinsic value... Its only linked with what the Badmash of the world is enforcing on people... 

3. Who will listen to us? This question of yours made me smile... read carefully brother... each and everyone of the influentials and movers and shakers of the dunya today is listening to us... they know what we want... their think tanks know what we are doing... this fear of becoming isolated is very irrational... it stems from being unaware of how ideological states operate... The Muslim world has never been isolated in the past and never will be isolated in the future inshaAllah... You ll have country after country recognizing the Caliphate once its formed and requesting diplomatic ties... believe me they are only waiting for this to happen... and other than a few countries do you really think we have animosity against the whole world? How about the South American countries? Sub Saharan Africa? China? numerous other countries? why do you assume we will become isolated and have no ties with anyone? 

3. Alliance? respectable alliance? This cannot happen in the current system because the regimes draw their power from the very concept of divide and rule... There is historical reasons why the Muslim world is divided into more than fifty countries (majority of them after the collapse of the Ottoman State)... If you think that dogs like Gaddafi and Saddam and Abdullah are one day going to form an alliance (all of them taking their orders from the west... literally) then you are the one who needs to come out of these dreams... 

Renaming OIC? What will that achieve? what changes do you propose we bring in? Will military alliance be part of the change? If suppose Indonesia gets attacked by Australia, can we send our troops to defend our brothers down under? 

If you want to be practical... read the books... go back a few pages on this thread... they are all here...

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## ARSamo

Jazak Allah


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## roadrunner

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> 1. How will we form the Caliphate... (this part I think would be pointless to discuss considering the Caliphate is already a done deal... how did Musharaf become the President of Pakistan? How did Lenin come to power in Russia? What swept dictators like Mubarak off their thrones after they had been in cruel power for multiple decades


 
Mubarak was swept away by popular demand. 

The Hizbut tarir are nothing more than a castrated pseudo literate organization that was told to take a hike during the recent popular revolutions.


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## divya

Ok So after 28 pages of day dreaming can we get back to the reality of 29 April 2011


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## Pak123

^^
Maam a systems is being discussed for Pakistan, not for India, so why are you feeling the heat ?

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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Imam Mahdi is in the Hadith and there are lots of these Hadith's... His significance is for two reasons... firstly he will be the best Caliphs during end times for the world... secondly he will destroy the Anti Christ and the system that we live under today... another aspect obviously is that both Shia and Sunni will accept his Imamate... and lastly... once opposition to Islam ends during his time, the world will witness massive materialistic and spirtual benefits... a time when there wont be poor... when meat shall be expensive because each and every corner of earth would be cultivated with grain crops... technology would have a purpose to serve humans instead of just making money for the Capitalists... etc... these are a few things that would make him prominent... and also the return of the Prophet Isa AS and him following the Imam of Muslims in prayer...


 
No matter what u say ..but the Imaam Mahdi is not from HUT...u can fool the world but not the ones who really knows about Imam Mahdi...We already knw what HUT has made inroad inside Army establishment...cuz we already knw how many secret agencies of enemies of Islam are wrking behind the scenes and for what purpose...and Alhamdolillah we r ready for that ...and they will get burried under the dust very soon Insha-Allah...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

roadrunner said:


> Mubarak was swept away by popular demand.
> 
> The Hizbut tarir are nothing more than a castrated pseudo literate organization that was told to take a hike during the recent popular revolutions.


 
Do you like to talk out of your backside? Do you have evidence of someone telling HT to take a hike during the recent popular revolutions? 

Perhaps you need to understand that I dont enjoy entertaining castrated fools... So I am ignoring you from now on... if you want to discuss decently, let me know... if you want to discuss with an attitude, you have no idea how miserable I can make you feel here... i.e anyone can resort to cheap insults on a forum... learn to be a man and convey your grievances in a constructive manner... Until you learn to do that... dont quote me as I wont be engaging with you... 

This goes for you too Mr Khurassan...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Pak123 said:


> ^^
> Maam a systems is being discussed for Pakistan, not for India, so why are you feeling the heat ?


 
Apparently the biggest threat for the Indians is us "Caliphites"

HuT, Israr Ahmed and Zaid Hamid...

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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Do you like to talk out of your backside? Do you have evidence of someone telling HT to take a hike during the recent popular revolutions?
> 
> Perhaps you need to understand that I dont enjoy entertaining castrated fools... So I am ignoring you from now on... if you want to discuss decently, let me know... if you want to discuss with an attitude, you have no idea how miserable I can make you feel here... i.e anyone can resort to cheap insults on a forum... learn to be a man and convey your grievances in a constructive manner... Until you learn to do that... dont quote me as I wont be engaging with you...
> 
> This goes for you too Mr Khurassan...



I luv u so much my brother!. ....cuz u care about me so much and I am alwayz there to help u out ; care and correct u....


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Apparently the biggest threat for the Indians is us "Caliphites"
> 
> HuT, Israr Ahmed and Zaid Hamid...


Hey ! Is HUT is a threat to British MI6???
...and Never ...cuz its an offshoot of MI6/Mosaad...


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## rising.pakistan1

one thing that i noticed is problems of pakistan and khilafat on the whole muslim world and they are the ones who stand for Saudia arabia .The biggest problem of Muslim Ummah


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## rising.pakistan1

i just want to say is Democracy and dictatorship are the problems of pakistan why muslim ummah will struggle for khilafat just for our problems


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## MilSpec

Pakistan should lead other islamic states to create a caliphate.... West will see this caliphate as its new enemy... rest of it....ask zaid hamid


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## roadrunner

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Do you like to talk out of your backside? Do you have evidence of someone telling HT to take a hike during the recent popular revolutions?
> 
> This goes for you too Mr Khurassan...


 
_Hizb ut-Tahrir, an Islamist group calling for the establishment of a Muslim caliphate, had to protest along nearby South Audley St, after Egyptians refused to allow them to join their solidarity protest at the Egyptian embassy. London, UK _ 

Iraqi Solidarity News (Al-Thawra): Hizb ut-Tahrir Turned Away

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## Stumper

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Apparently the biggest threat for the Indians is us "Caliphites"
> 
> HuT, Israr Ahmed and Zaid Hamid...



Apparently you wish to overlook the fact that , both TeI and HuT dont have any agreed plan on how such caliphate will work. Anyway .... Utopia has always fascinated world.

We would welcome you overtaking and establishing a caliphate in Pakistan. That would be easy to handle then the better organized Armed forces of Pakistan.


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## 1 ummah

rising.pakistan1 said:


> i just want to say is Democracy and dictatorship are the problems of pakistan why muslim ummah will struggle for khilafat just for our problems


 
islamic system solves the problems,which all countries are facing,wat ever they may b...but this is not the reason y 1 is or shud strugle for its implementation..as muslim's actions are not based on benefit (LIKE CAPTILISTS) but fulfilling Allah's commands,and the hukm is to live according to sharia "or kisi musalman mard or aurat ko ya haq nahi k ...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Stumper said:


> Apparently you wish to overlook the fact that , both TeI and HuT dont have any agreed plan on how such caliphate will work. Anyway .... Utopia has always fascinated world.
> 
> We would welcome you overtaking and establishing a caliphate in Pakistan. That would be easy to handle then the better organized Armed forces of Pakistan.


 
You really have no idea do you? 

As for agreed plan... An idiot from India obviously did not go thru the whole thread... If he had, he would ve seen the plan linked in the form of numerous books...

Its interesting though that you dont disagree with the Indian perception of the threat of Caliphites... lol

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

roadrunner said:


> _Hizb ut-Tahrir, an Islamist group calling for the establishment of a Muslim caliphate, had to protest along nearby South Audley St, after Egyptians refused to allow them to join their solidarity protest at the Egyptian embassy. London, UK _
> 
> Iraqi Solidarity News (Al-Thawra): Hizb ut-Tahrir Turned Away


 
And these people represent all of Egypt?? You really are something... haha

Its like Musharaf not allowing members of HuT in his stupid speeches in the UK and claiming that he represents all of Pakistan... Bhai what are you smoking? That demo was by secularists... Was nt for a change of system but just the face of Mubarak... The people on the streets in Egypt were chanting the change of system... If you knew Arabic you would know... 

These so called solidarity demonstrators never came out when people were being tortured in Egyptians jails... where was their solidarity then?? At least HuT has spoken out against Mubarak from the very first day of his rule... Can you quote me a single person within that Egyptian demo to have raised his voice or pen *before* the people came out in the streets in Cairo? Thumbs up to them for finally waking up... You wont even know who they are because politically they are nobodies... But then perhaps this point is far beyond your comprehension... 

btw... heres a bit of news for you... HuT generally does their own demos and do not mingle with other groups as they have their own call and their own banners... some time ago they came out in force against Ghadari/Zardari who was visiting England while our people were drowning and dying in floods... You could clearly see them standing in a separate group from Tahrik e Insaaf Pakistan who were also protesting against Zardari's visit... Learn to be more analytical when you approach politics... Just because you (or some unknown Egyptians) dont like some people does nt mean they do not have influence...

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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> And these people represent all of Egypt?? You really are something... haha


 But HUT dont even represent Islam so howcome they can bring Islam implementation...If u cant satisfy me...cant get background clearence from me ...Are unable to prove HUT innocent and sincere for Islam...very sad...All ure posts showz that HUT is hungry for power to implement Islam..The same way all religious parties run for power to implement Islam...So there is no difference between HUT and other religious groups...
Islam never went and never goes for power....the power alwayz comes under Islam as a gift from Allah SBWT...
The Holy Quran clearly sayz that if u truly and 100% follow Islam then Allah SBWT will give u power(Hukmaraani) in this world and in the next world...the Faqir and Darwesh of Islam never wanted and never wished for power ...the lives of our Sahabah is there for us...
No matter how many SABAZ BAGHZ u gonna show us ...it cant convince us ...Alhamdolillah I read Holy Quran and Hadiths and get guidance from there and can find MI6, Mosaad, Devilz agents disguised in the form of different religious groups fooling and misguiding simple and innocent Muslims for their own selfish gains...
The holy Quran says "La Qaulu limala Tafhaloon"..translation: "Dont say what u dont do"
plz dont get offended..but Im trying to uncover the evil face of Devilz behind all glitterz/glamourz...
Alhamdolillah every time I see Holy Quran and apply its farmulaz on the world situationz and find out the solutions of all the evil games going on around us...
"To divide and rule" the old British game
Islam never came by force and never will by force just by the Love and peace....as it is clear from its name "Islam "meaning : Salamte/peace/safety for everyone, either Muslim or non-Muslim


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## roadrunner

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> HuT generally does their own demos and do not mingle with other groups as they have their own call and their own banners...


 
That is only because noone wants to be seen with them.

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## roadrunner

Here's a question for MBQ. 

What happens to anyone who doesn't want to follow your system specifically? 

Or do you believe that, by magic, everyone in Pakistan will want to implement your foreign system under the disguise of Islam?

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## 1 ummah

roadrunner said:


> Here's a question for MBQ.
> 
> What happens to anyone who doesn't want to follow your system specifically?
> 
> Or do you believe that, by magic, everyone in Pakistan will want to implement your foreign system under the disguise of Islam?


 
no they wont they are hapi with american agents!! right Mr. Pakistani???


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## AHMED85

1 ummah said:


> islamic system solves the problems,which all countries are facing,wat ever they may b...but this is not the reason y 1 is or shud strugle for its implementation..as muslim's actions are not based on benefit (LIKE CAPTILISTS) but fulfilling Allah's commands,and the hukm is to live according to sharia "or kisi musalman mard or aurat ko ya haq nahi k ...


 
Sorry bro only Islam has not only the system to solve every problems. 
if it can than why the country have full Islamic system like Saudia, and like most of Islamic vision Iran has their own problems.

if you need any thing related to Islam in Pakistan. 
than you must play one thing in country that is Justice.
its solve most of problem in one way........


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

roadrunner said:


> Here's a question for MBQ.
> 
> What happens to anyone who doesn't want to follow your system specifically?
> 
> Or do you believe that, by magic, everyone in Pakistan will want to implement your foreign system under the disguise of Islam?


 
Yep... its a kind of magic... now you disappear little rabbit... 

MBQ waves his magic wand...


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## Myth_buster_1

AHMED85 said:


> Sorry bro only Islam has not only the system to solve every problems.
> if it can than why the country have full Islamic system like Saudia, and like most of Islamic vision Iran has their own problems.
> 
> if you need any thing related to Islam in Pakistan.
> than you must play one thing in country that is Justice.
> its solve most of problem in one way........


 
Utter nonsense! Who said KSA has full Islamic system? 

Please watch the entire documentary and I hope after watching it you will not say again that KSA has full Islamic system.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Mytho!!!

Do you know something... This video was actually made by some friends from Hizb ut Tahrir 

LOL


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## Myth_buster_1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Mytho!!!
> 
> Do you know something... This video was actually made by some friends from Hizb ut Tahrir
> LOL



Yes, I have came across a lot of HuT videos which are quite intellectual but still not enough to gain my full 100% support


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## Abdu Samad

* A Video that must be watched by all 18 Crore Patriotic Pakistanis*, especially all Patriotic Politicians [a few one] Patriotic Army & ISI officers.

Pls forward this very important video to all other Pakistanis:

US seeks to Balkanize Mideast+Pakistan

Interview with political observers Stephen Lendman from Chicago and Webster Tarpley from Washington

PressTV - 'US seeks to Balkanize Mideast'


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## Abdu Samad

9-11 was a drama [inside job] and Incidence of Abottabad about OBL is another movie script that was picturarized a few days ago in Abottabad. O PEOPLE WAKE UP. *99% our TV stations are being run by a foreign agency*

*PROOF*: Watch Video at:

PressTV - 'US seeks to Balkanize Mideast'


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## 1 ummah

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Yes, I have came across a lot of HuT videos which are quite intellectual but still not enough to gain my full 100% support


 
dont be rigid bro shak is not a gud thing nor appreciated in islam..still ur support to isalimc system is support to h.t!!


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## 1 ummah

AHMED85 said:


> Sorry bro only Islam has not only the system to solve every problems.
> if it can than why the country have full Islamic system like Saudia, and like most of Islamic vision Iran has their own problems.
> 
> if you need any thing related to Islam in Pakistan.
> than you must play one thing in country that is Justice.
> its solve most of problem in one way........



.*as muslim's actions are not based on benefit (LIKE CAPTILISTS) but fulfilling Allah's commands,and the hukm is to live according to sharia*


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Yes, I have came across a lot of HuT videos which are quite intellectual but still not enough to gain my full 100% support


 
Skepticism can be a good thing... this way when you reach a conclusion you ll know you have checked the people and issues from different angles... It took me quite a while to explore HuT and after studying them and studying with them I can now confidently state that they are the most enlightened Muslims I have come across... also a lot of their concepts are similar to mine from before (based on my own research)... so I shall support them till I die inshaAllah... for the cause of the Caliphate...


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## Myth_buster_1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Skepticism can be a good thing... this way when you reach a conclusion you ll know you have checked the people and issues from different angles... It took me quite a while to explore HuT and after studying them and studying with them I can now confidently state that they are the most enlightened Muslims I have come across... also a lot of their concepts are similar to mine from before (based on my own research)... so I shall support them till I die inshaAllah... for the cause of the Caliphate...


 
What is HuT stance on Iqbal's perception of mehdi and the return of Hazrat Issa? 

"As I think, the concept of the Mahdi, Masih and Mujaddad is a completely Iranian and Ajmi perception. This concept has no link to the Qur'an, Islam and Arabic perceptions."

Source: Allama Iqbal, Iqbal Nama, Volume 2, Bazm-e-Iqbal, Lahore, Pakistan, Letter No. 87


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## khurasaan1

Myth_buster_1 said:


> What is HuT stance on Iqbal's perception of mehdi and the return of Hazrat Issa?
> 
> "As I think, the concept of the Mahdi,and Mujaddad is a completely Iranian and Ajmi perception. This concept has no link to the Qur'an, Islam and Arabic perceptions."
> 
> Source: Allama Iqbal, Iqbal Nama, Volume 2, Bazm-e-Iqbal, Lahore, Pakistan, Letter No. 87


Bro... Mujaddid is Arabic word.....and Alf-e-Saani is Mujaddid for next 1000yearz.... is all from Arabic.....from Hadith....Mahdi is from many ,many Hadiths...Arabic wordz...

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## Myth_buster_1

khurasaan1 said:


> Bro... Mujaddid is Arabic word.....and Alf-e-Saani is Mujaddid for next 1000yearz.... is all from Arabic.....from Hadith....Mahdi is from many ,many Hadiths...Arabic wordz...


 
Im talking about Iqbal's perception on Mehdi and return of hazrat issa. 
According to him, their is no such thing.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Myth_buster_1 said:


> What is HuT stance on Iqbal's perception of mehdi and the return of Hazrat Issa?
> 
> "As I think, the concept of the Mahdi, Masih and Mujaddad is a completely Iranian and Ajmi perception. This concept has no link to the Qur'an, Islam and Arabic perceptions."
> 
> Source: Allama Iqbal, Iqbal Nama, Volume 2, Bazm-e-Iqbal, Lahore, Pakistan, Letter No. 87


 
The problem with the idea of Mahdi is ONLY ONE... and you can sometimes see this on this very forum... those who rejected the Mahdi in my opinion do so for sorting this problem... the problem of doing nothing and waiting for the Mahdi to come and sort out our problems... 

In reality though the ahadith about the Mahdi are many... so there is some truth in the concept...

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## roadrunner

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Yep... its a kind of magic... now you disappear little rabbit...
> 
> MBQ waves his magic wand...


 
i'm going to ask you some questions, since you appear the be Hizb/caliphatist spokesman on here. 

1) you want to convert the armies of Muslim majority countries to your ideology, then for the armies to force your way of life onto all the population of the country. Any Army that resists shall be invaded, many Muslims killed, until the are subjugated to your point of view. Is this not sick? Yes or no? 

2) What about those Muslims that would prefer to live a little differently to your philosophy? You would want to kill them also? Is that not sick? 
_..thus, he who does not rule by Islam and rules by a Kufr system should either retract or be killed. Thus, the rule by a Kufr system would be prevented even if this led to several years of fighting and even if it led to the killing of millions of Muslims and to the martyrdom of millions of believers._ - Hizb 

Here is my overall question. You claim to be non-violent, yet anyone who disagrees with you must be killed. That includes Muslims. Do you know what fascism is?

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

roadrunner said:


> i'm going to ask you some questions, since you appear the be Hizb/caliphatist spokesman on here.
> 
> 1) you want to convert the armies of Muslim majority countries to your ideology, then for the armies to force your way of life onto all the population of the country. Any Army that resists shall be invaded, many Muslims killed, until the are subjugated to your point of view. Is this not sick? Yes or no?
> 
> 2) What about those Muslims that would prefer to live a little differently to your philosophy? You would want to kill them also? Is that not sick?
> _..thus, he who does not rule by Islam and rules by a Kufr system should either retract or be killed. Thus, the rule by a Kufr system would be prevented even if this led to several years of fighting and even if it led to the killing of millions of Muslims and to the martyrdom of millions of believers._ - Hizb
> 
> Here is my overall question. You claim to be non-violent, yet anyone who disagrees with you must be killed. That includes Muslims. Do you know what fascism is?


 
haha... see how good I am at predicting the kind of scum such as roadrunner above... He even quoted from a Quilliam article... 

dude... dont you get it... I m not discussing anything with you with this attitude... Come down from your moral highground and we can then talk... otherwise if you insist on a discussion with this attitude the only way I can possibly answer you would be for you to imagine that I have your head under my foot and kick your face in after every line that I say/type here... Now that is nt really a nice feeling is it?

So again... leave aside the attitude and perhaps we can discuss... for that you have to apologise first... you know for the use of the word fascism... After that your questions are not hard to answer... trust me... I have spoken face to face with very influential and powerful people... (you are a nobody not even an ant in comparison to them)... I have nt exactly hidden the fact that the Caliphate would engage in operations to take out certain people (I mean its ok for America to take out OBL is nt it?)... Now keep wishing for "war between Muslims"... You are good at fantasy... Let us know from time to time what other fascinating dreamworks you can come up with... 

and Caliphatist is a neologism (it aint in a dictionary anyway... only those EDL types use such words such as this and Moslamich etc)... this disease may happen to those suffering from schizophrenia... you probably need medications... 

Now be a good boy and stay shut until someone asks you to comment... and if you have to comment then learn to be a little polite and dont use words such as fascism to describe others in this out of the way manner... if you want to call me a fascist let me ask the moderators not to give you an infarction for it... I dont mind being insulted by someone who is not right in the head... so I m sure the moderators would understand...


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## Myth_buster_1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> The problem with the idea of Mahdi is ONLY ONE... and you can sometimes see this on this very forum... those who rejected the Mahdi in my opinion do so for sorting this problem... the problem of doing nothing and waiting for the Mahdi to come and sort out our problems...
> 
> In reality though the ahadith about the Mahdi are many... so there is some truth in the concept...


 
Iqbal has clearly stated that mehdi has no concept with Islam and that its a completely Irani thing. What the hell is that suppose to mean? 
You must try to comprehend the fact that Muslims have been divided from within and the virus will only be cured when Mehdi arrives with the assistance of hazrat issa. Before that we people can do nothing about Khalifa other then try our best to give awareness to the muslims but i dough they care about it and are busy with their life.


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## roadrunner

You seem a little sensitive and evasive. 

You don't know how to respond to a charge that your Hizb/Caliphatist organization is fascist? 

Here is the definition of fascism for you 

_An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
2. (in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice._

Authoritarian -----check 
nationalistic right-wing system -------- check 
Intolerant views/practice --------- relative, but check. 

So how are you not a fascist organization? Since it's obvious you fit the bill for one. 



Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> haha... see how good I am at predicting the kind of scum such as roadrunner above... He even quoted from a Quilliam article...
> 
> dude... dont you get it... I m not discussing anything with you with this attitude... Come down from your moral highground and we can then talk... otherwise if you insist on a discussion with this attitude the only way I can possibly answer you would be for you to imagine that I have your head under my foot and kick your face in after every line that I say/type here... Now that is nt really a nice feeling is it?
> 
> So again... leave aside the attitude and perhaps we can discuss... for that you have to apologise first... you know for the use of the word fascism... After that your questions are not hard to answer... trust me... I have spoken face to face with very influential and powerful people... (you are a nobody not even an ant in comparison to them)... I have nt exactly hidden the fact that the Caliphate would engage in operations to take out certain people (I mean its ok for America to take out OBL is nt it?)... Now keep wishing for "war between Muslims"... You are good at fantasy... Let us know from time to time what other fascinating dreamworks you can come up with...
> 
> and Caliphatist is a neologism (it aint in a dictionary anyway... only those EDL types use such words such as this and Moslamich etc)... this disease may happen to those suffering from schizophrenia... you probably need medications...
> 
> Now be a good boy and stay shut until someone asks you to comment... and if you have to comment then learn to be a little polite and dont use words such as fascism to describe others in this out of the way manner... if you want to call me a fascist let me ask the moderators not to give you an infarction for it... I dont mind being insulted by someone who is not right in the head... so I m sure the moderators would understand...



I'm not sure what you mean by it's a Quilliam article. It's taken from a book published by Hizb publishers.. Al Khalifah Publications (Bakri in origin). 

The quote where it says you don't mind killing millions of Muslims was made by Hizb.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Does anyone know how to put someone on ignore? So that their comments of lies, accusations, idiocy and insults dont show thru on my workstation here??

Mytho...

The rejection of the Mahdi is not kufr... To consider something kufr you have to prove it to be Qatai Taboot Qatai Dalalah... i.e you are absolutely sure to the correctness of the idea... for example to reject that the Prophet saw is the last prophet is kufr because it is rejection of a fundamental pillers of Islam i.e the final prophethood of Muhammad saw... Thus Qadianis are kafir... similarly to blatantly and completely reject all Hadith is also kufr... every hadith can be put on to a panel for discussion and criticism regarding its origin, recording and chain of transmission BUT one cannot claim that there is no such thing as Hadith... So Iqbal is simply putting the Ahadith about Mahdi to this panel for criticism... people amongst the Ahlul Sunnah have done this before... Remember that rejecting even a Sahih Hadith is not kufr rather it is a sin... there is a difference between the two... However rejecting a Mutawattir Hadith with more than five different chains of narration as a general rule can be considered Kufr... 

Your assertion (again and again) that we have to wait for the Mahdi is wrong... because the Ahadith themselves state this clearly that the Mahdi will only be chosen as the leader of Muslims AFTER the DEATH OF A CALIPH... i.e he will be one amongst the second line of Caliphs that Muslims shall now re initiate soon inshaAllah... 

So I totally reject this idea that only Mahdi will come and sort out our problems because there is mention of Caliphate before the Mahdi... this means that we have to strive for it until we achieve it and implement it... 

btw... it is generally thought that the Mahdi probably wont know he is the Mahdi until Issa AS descends to pray behind him...

Masalam


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## nForce

Implement system of Allah...okay fine..but where?Only in Pakistan?Or elsewhere as well.One Islamic brotherhood-Ummah.If not only in Pakistan,but also in other countries,then which countries ? There may be a lot of countries with a sizable Muslim population,but not many Islamic countries....


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## roadrunner

nForce said:


> Implement system of Allah...okay fine..but where?Only in Pakistan?Or elsewhere as well.One Islamic brotherhood-Ummah.If not only in Pakistan,but also in other countries,then which countries ? There may be a lot of countries with a sizable Muslim population,but not many Islamic countries....


 
No no, you see, this is the strategy of Hizb-ut tahrir. 

First get hold of Pakistan so that you have a nuclear armed state with one of the best armies of a Muslim nation. Kill any Muslim that resists. 

Then threaten all the other Islamic states with nukes to join the Caliphate. 

If they resist, then kill all the Muslims in that state (or anyone resisting). 

There are quotes from Hizb ut tahrir to justify such genocidal madness. Such as all the lands of Dar ul Islam become Dar ul Harb (a state of war), if they resist. 

Everyone must follow the fascist, authoritarian regime of Hizb. Yet when they're banned in Muslim countries, they go crying to the West to and say look at how authoritarian and bad are Muslim countries. It is hypocrisy.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

nForce said:


> Implement system of Allah...okay fine..but where?Only in Pakistan?Or elsewhere as well.One Islamic brotherhood-Ummah.If not only in Pakistan,but also in other countries,then which countries ? There may be a lot of countries with a sizable Muslim population,but not many Islamic countries....


 
Agreed and that is the idea... to start with a few countries simultaneously... the rest of the countries will join in once the traitors on top are taken out... and people like road runner will keep wishing for a civil war amongst Muslims... haha 

The basis of these Quilliam type arguments is total ignorance about the reality on the ground... people are sick and tired of their regimes... they want Islam in politics and accountability... The Caliphate would deliver that... and the problem for our enemies (wink wink) is that they cant bear the thought of Muslim Unity and Power... let them plot and plan... we have the best of planners on our side... 

If you want to know which countries... I can tell you this much... Pakistan is most certainly one of them where it shall be initiated within less than five years time now... inshaAllah... I m also certain about one more country... but the rest is speculation and guess work...


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## nForce

roadrunner said:


> No no, you see, this is the strategy of Hizb-ut tahrir.
> 
> First get hold of Pakistan so that you have a nuclear armed state with one of the best armies of a Muslim nation. Kill any Muslim that resists.
> 
> Then threaten all the other Islamic states with nukes to join the Caliphate.
> 
> If they resist, then kill all the Muslims in that state (or anyone resisting).
> 
> There are quotes from Hizb ut tahrir to justify such genocidal madness. Such as all the lands of Dar ul Islam become Dar ul Harb (a state of war), if they resist.
> 
> Everyone must follow the fascist, authoritarian regime of Hizb. Yet when they're banned in Muslim countries, they go crying to the West to and say look at how authoritarian and bad are Muslim countries. It is hypocrisy.


 
that surely sounds quite extreme.Its hard for me to understand,why would someone go for all the pains to get hold of a country,commit massacre on way to do it,get hold of nukes,bully others,commit yet another massacre on way of doing that...and then what?Peace??Whats wrong with having a peaceful life now??I dont know,the more I come to know about people like these,the more I feel that they really dont have anything better to do...How about diverting all that energy towards building a road,or digging a water reservoir??The Israelis did that.Funny indeed.....what is there to gain?


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## nForce

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Agreed and that is the idea... to start with a few countries simultaneously... the rest of the countries will join in once the traitors on top are taken out... and people like road runner will keep wishing for a civil war amongst Muslims... haha
> 
> The basis of these Quilliam type arguments is total ignorance about the reality on the ground... people are sick and tired of their regimes... they want Islam in politics and accountability... The Caliphate would deliver that... and the problem for our enemies (wink wink) is that they cant bear the thought of Muslim Unity and Power... let them plot and plan... we have the best of planners on our side...
> 
> If you want to know which countries... I can tell you this much... Pakistan is most certainly one of them where it shall be initiated within less than five years time now... inshaAllah... I m also certain about one more country... but the rest is speculation and guess work...


 
okay,I agree with you.If implemented properly,things can be really great.
But don't you think the losses will be kind of too high.There are different kind of people with different ethnic backgrounds,and there countries have different economies.
Why would Turkey,a Muslim majority country,though not an Islamic country,would like to dissolve its boundaries and merge with Syria,while they have a much stronger economy than Syria?
Now if people try to implement force in order to do this,then obviously there is going to be clashes.

Now keep aside the Muslims.What about the non-muslims?As I said before,there are a lot of countries with Muslims living there,but only a few Islamic countries,and no country with a population consisting of Muslims entirely.Dont you think,that these people will feel like being treated as second-class citizen,if Islamic religion is taken as the basis of unifying different nations?This resentment will give rise to grievance and grievance will again lead to clashes....
What do you think about that?


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## roadrunner

nForce said:


> that surely sounds quite extreme.Its hard for me to understand,why would someone go for all the pains to get hold of a country,commit massacre on way to do it,get hold of nukes,bully others,commit yet another massacre on way of doing that...and then what?Peace??Whats wrong with having a peaceful life now??I dont know,the more I come to know about people like these,the more I feel that they really dont have anything better to do...How about diverting all that energy towards building a road,or digging a water reservoir??The Israelis did that.Funny indeed.....what is there to gain?


 
Why they need to do all that? Because they're fascists. They cannot get to power through any popular countrywide sentiment. 

Comparing it to Israel is a very incorrect comparison. Israel did more or less the same thing, that is forcing their religious ideas onto the indigenous people of Palestine. If they did not accept their ideas, they were forced to leave in whatever way possible.


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## roadrunner

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Agreed and that is the idea... to start with a few countries simultaneously... the rest of the countries will join in once the traitors on top are taken out... and people like road runner will keep wishing for a civil war amongst Muslims... haha



Hizb ut tahrir states that killing millions of Muslims is a price worth paying, not I. So how do I want civil war? Explain that if you can. 



> The basis of these Quilliam type arguments is total ignorance about the reality on the ground... people are sick and tired of their regimes... they want Islam in politics and accountability... The Caliphate would deliver that... and the problem for our enemies (wink wink) is that they cant bear the thought of Muslim Unity and Power... let them plot and plan... we have the best of planners on our side...



People are sick and tired of Middle Eastern despots. But they don't want Hizb type rule either, because they know you're a bunch of fanatics, which is why your popularity is so low. 



> If you want to know which countries... I can tell you this much... Pakistan is most certainly one of them where it shall be initiated within less than five years time now... inshaAllah... I m also certain about one more country... but the rest is speculation and guess work...


 
Pakistan obviously for the nukes, so that you can threaten and bully the other Islamic nations with death into joining you. 

But all this is a pipedream of lunatics. Pakistan is in no danger of falling to Hizb ut, and no other Islamic nation is. Noone wants you, that's why you've all run to the West. Not even Egypt wanted you when there was an opportunity for you to pick up the pieces.


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## Ahmad

^^^i thought HUT was non violent guys, i think i need to know more about them.


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## roadrunner

Ahmad said:


> ^^^i thought HUT was non violent guys, i think i need to know more about them.


 
HUT just try to stay within the laws of the country they are in so they are not banned. 

They're most definitely violent. I'm not sure why they West gives them this sanctuary. Perhaps it's because they say they will only be violent in subjugating Muslims in Muslim countries, while claiming to leave the West alone (a lie, since the West will be Dar Al Harb, or land of war, according to HUT). 

This quote 

_"thus, he who does not rule by Islam and rules by a Kufr system should either retract or be killed. Thus, the rule by a Kufr system would be prevented even if this led to several years of fighting and even if it led to the killing of millions of Muslims and to the martyrdom of millions of believers"_ 

is taken from the book "How the Khalifa was destroyed", by Abdul Zallum, global head of Hizb ut Tahrir in 2000. 

I've checked the quote and it's there. 

It is directly attributable to Hizb ut Tahrir, and MBQ is struggling to explain how he finds the deaths of millions of Muslims an acceptable outcome in order to get his unpopular fascist state.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

nForce said:


> okay,I agree with you.If implemented properly,things can be really great.
> But don't you think the losses will be kind of too high.There are different kind of people with different ethnic backgrounds,and there countries have different economies.
> Why would Turkey,a Muslim majority country,though not an Islamic country,would like to dissolve its boundaries and merge with Syria,while they have a much stronger economy than Syria?
> Now if people try to implement force in order to do this,then obviously there is going to be clashes.
> 
> Now keep aside the Muslims.What about the non-muslims?As I said before,there are a lot of countries with Muslims living there,but only a few Islamic countries,and no country with a population consisting of Muslims entirely.Dont you think,that these people will feel like being treated as second-class citizen,if Islamic religion is taken as the basis of unifying different nations?This resentment will give rise to grievance and grievance will again lead to clashes....
> What do you think about that?


 
Good post... 

I think your fears about loses are not rational... If you think about it for a second, a combination of resources, manpower and economies actually benefit everyone... I wont give you the example of EU here because EU is not the same model as the Caliphate... but perhaps the reason why you are worried about clash between various regions is due to your mindframe of nationalism... There is no such thing as Nationailsm in Islam... The Caliphate is not going to prefer one nationality over another... rather people would be valued according to their talents etc... As for the issue of resources and distribution... I think in this aspect local regions would be preferred for distribution of the goods... So for example Afghanistan has tremendous untapped resources... does it mean that the Caliphate will leave Afghans poor and make Punjabis become rich... absolutely not... The best planning to distribute resources is to start with local regions... If Pakistan had a policy of developing different provinces together instead of focussing so much on Punjab or Sindh, today we would not have these insurgencies that we have like the BLA or illiterate TTP... 

Regarding non Muslims... we have disagreements with those who think non Muslims would be second class citizens... I believe its one of those things we disagree with Dr israr Ahmed may Allah bless his soul... If history is proof of anything, it is that non Muslims preferred the IS rather than their own rulers... Palestine for example was liberated at the request of a Christian delegation which were sick and tired of Romans similarly when Jews were thrown out of Europe they found refuge in Ottoman lands... so yeah any worry about non Muslims is a misconception... 

Hope that answers your questions... and dont pay attention to this beep beep loony tunes road runner character here... 

Same for you alaka Ahmad Khana


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## roadrunner

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> but perhaps the reason why you are worried about clash between various regions is due to your mindframe of nationalism... There is no such thing as Nationailsm in Islam... The Caliphate is not going to prefer one nationality over another... rather people would be valued according to their talents etc...


 
So Islamic Nationalism would not exist in this Islamic state of yours? Except non Muslim won't be allowed to vote etc..


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## nForce

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Good post...
> 
> I think your fears about loses are not rational... If you think about it for a second, a combination of resources, manpower and economies actually benefit everyone... I wont give you the example of EU here because EU is not the same model as the Caliphate... but perhaps the reason why you are worried about clash between various regions is due to your mindframe of nationalism... There is no such thing as Nationailsm in Islam... The Caliphate is not going to prefer one nationality over another... rather people would be valued according to their talents etc... As for the issue of resources and distribution... I think in this aspect local regions would be preferred for distribution of the goods... So for example Afghanistan has tremendous untapped resources... does it mean that the Caliphate will leave Afghans poor and make Punjabis become rich... absolutely not... The best planning to distribute resources is to start with local regions... If Pakistan had a policy of developing different provinces together instead of focussing so much on Punjab or Sindh, today we would not have these insurgencies that we have like the BLA or illiterate TTP...
> 
> Regarding non Muslims... we have disagreements with those who think non Muslims would be second class citizens... I believe its one of those things we disagree with Dr israr Ahmed may Allah bless his soul... If history is proof of anything, it is that non Muslims preferred the IS rather than their own rulers... Palestine for example was liberated at the request of a Christian delegation which were sick and tired of Romans similarly when Jews were thrown out of Europe they found refuge in Ottoman lands... so yeah any worry about non Muslims is a misconception...
> 
> Hope that answers your questions... and dont pay attention to this beep beep loony tunes road runner character here...
> 
> Same for you alaka Ahmad Khana


 
A valued post indeed...It would definitely be a 'one of a kind' thing to reunite different pieces of land on the basis of religion.A single nation,unified economy,and unified agenda.Good for the people,and anything that is good for the people,where people can lead a happy,peaceful and prosperous life has my support.
Being speculative is basic human nature,and I am no exception.Its not EU that comes to my mind,its the erstwhile Soviet Union that comes to my mind.All united under a common umbrella called communism,a supposedly utopian state, a place where everybody has equal rights,all goodie goodie.Yet it crumbled under its own pressure.One of the main reasons was, there were too many different ethnicity and culture.Economic mismanagement was definitely there,but that comes as an added problem when you have one sixth of the entire landmass of the World to handle from a single center.
We can always talk in depth about the issues that may arise for governance.
looking at your points I can see,that you are advocating a single state,where the economy will benefit everyone.
My first question: Is the same not happening now? different countries may have trade relations and hence share the economic benefit.It is any day easier to create good trade relations,isnt it?

My second question:Even if we go for a unified nation,unified economy,we can still do that EU style.What Islam has got to do anything with it??


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## 1 ummah

please dont tell me roadrunner is muslim!!


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## 1 ummah

nForce said:


> A valued post indeed...I.
> My first question: Is the same not happening now? different countries may have trade relations and hence share the economic benefit.It is any day easier to create good trade relations,isnt it?
> 
> My second question:Even if we go for a unified nation,unified economy,we can still do that EU style.What Islam has got to do anything with it??



bro wen we talk about implementing islam the very basic thing behind it is our aqeeda...i being muslim am obliged to live according to laws given by my Lord,y because otherwise i'll be punished for disobeying Allah!

and ALLAH has ordered in Quran to implement his system in whole world..thats why,following footsteps of our beloved prophet(p.b.u.h) frist we have to revive that system,establish pure islamic state,where ever it may start from,then the second step/order to implement it in whole world!


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## roadrunner

1 ummah said:


> please dont tell me roadrunner is muslim!!


 
But killing millions of Muslims and others is a very Muslim thing to do 

*note sarcasm in this post i.e. Hizb ut Tahrir believe killing thousands of Muslims is acceptable*


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## khurasaan1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Good post...
> 
> I think your fears about loses are not rational... If you think about it for a second, a combination of resources, manpower and economies actually benefit everyone... I wont give you the example of EU here because EU is not the same model as the Caliphate... but perhaps the reason why you are worried about clash between various regions is due to your mindframe of nationalism... There is no such thing as Nationailsm in Islam... The Caliphate is not going to prefer one nationality over another... rather people would be valued according to their talents etc... As for the issue of resources and distribution... I think in this aspect local regions would be preferred for distribution of the goods... So for example Afghanistan has tremendous untapped resources... does it mean that the Caliphate will leave Afghans poor and make Punjabis become rich... absolutely not... The best planning to distribute resources is to start with local regions... If Pakistan had a policy of developing different provinces together instead of focussing so much on Punjab or Sindh, today we would not have these insurgencies that we have like the BLA or illiterate TTP...
> 
> Regarding non Muslims... we have disagreements with those who think non Muslims would be second class citizens... I believe its one of those things we disagree with Dr israr Ahmed may Allah bless his soul... If history is proof of anything, it is that non Muslims preferred the IS rather than their own rulers... Palestine for example was liberated at the request of a Christian delegation which were sick and tired of Romans similarly when Jews were thrown out of Europe they found refuge in Ottoman lands... so yeah any worry about non Muslims is a misconception...
> 
> Hope that answers your questions... and dont pay attention to this beep beep loony tunes road runner character here...
> 
> Same for you alaka Ahmad Khana


 
Hey how much MI6 paying u for wrking this hard...and what is ure position in HUT...??????


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## khurasaan1

roadrunner said:


> But killing millions of Muslims and others is a very Muslim thing to do
> 
> *note sarcasm in this post i.e. Hizb ut Tahrir believe killing thousands of Muslims is acceptable*


Looks like MI6/Mosaad/CIA has gone crazy to get rid of Muslim as soon as possible to bring the new world order.....


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## roadrunner

It's a direct quote from the global leader of Hizb ut tahrir. 

Something you seem in denial over.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

nForce said:


> A valued post indeed...It would definitely be a 'one of a kind' thing to reunite different pieces of land on the basis of religion.A single nation,unified economy,and unified agenda.Good for the people,and anything that is good for the people,where people can lead a happy,peaceful and prosperous life has my support.
> Being speculative is basic human nature,and I am no exception.Its not EU that comes to my mind,its the erstwhile Soviet Union that comes to my mind.All united under a common umbrella called communism,a supposedly utopian state, a place where everybody has equal rights,all goodie goodie.Yet it crumbled under its own pressure.One of the main reasons was, there were too many different ethnicity and culture.Economic mismanagement was definitely there,but that comes as an added problem when you have one sixth of the entire landmass of the World to handle from a single center.
> We can always talk in depth about the issues that may arise for governance.
> looking at your points I can see,that you are advocating a single state,where the economy will benefit everyone.
> My first question: Is the same not happening now? different countries may have trade relations and hence share the economic benefit.It is any day easier to create good trade relations,isnt it?
> 
> My second question:Even if we go for a unified nation,unified economy,we can still do that EU style.What Islam has got to do anything with it??


 
nForce my dear... USSR was a communist state... its a completely different ideology with a distinct economic system... Islam has an economic system of its own which is unique and different from both communism and capitalism... for example unlike communism, Islam allows numerous private possessions and properties but unlike capitalism it restricts certain things to be in the hands of the few... so it has aspects resembling communism and aspects resembling capitalism but its origin is entirely Islamic texts i.e Quran and the Sunnah as well as Ijmaa and Qiyas... These are the basis of Shariah or Islamic Law... 

I can understand why our generations think towards USSR or EU... these are modern examples which we have seen to some extents in recent times... One of the problems for us is that our system has been non existant for almost a hundred years now... this is a difficulty because unless you devote quite a bit of time to some books, the beauty of our system will remain hidden from your mind... i.e its all in the books now and the minds of people who are cultured in the methodology... I can however say this much that the IS has been one of the most successful states in entire human history... despite the lack of communication and other tech that we have today, the IS achieved remarkable success and won the hearts of millions... this is the reason that although Islam entered different lands by the strength of the sword, its real power was in its intellectual discourse which melts the hearts and unites mankind in a prosperous society (regardless of religion even)... We Muslims of today of all people have to realize this that a Hindu can be a decent and honest man, hard working, talented and have similar aspirations in life... we may disagree with the basic religion but all people desire similar things in life in general, this includes economic prosperity, protection of life, dignity, honour, property... these are things that Islam guarantees for everyone... so even though the name of the state may be Islamic, it is actually a state for all those who are willing to live in Muslim lands... 

So for your first question... the same is NOT happening now because today we are stuck in capitalist or socialist models across the Muslim world... depending on whether you have a Pakistan/Saudi Arabia (capitalist) or Libya/Syria (socialist)... each one of these so called States is actually at war with Allah swt and His messenger saw by implementing Riba also... unlike the wishes of its people who DONT want this war so this mess is because of the elite of these countries...

Secondly (again)... EU is Capitalist in its system... it allows fiat currency and fractional reserve banking, it allows private ownership of energy resources, it allows Riba, it allows stocks and limited companies, it allows gambling and open trade of a dangerous and hard drug (alcohol), it allows for women to be exploited for selling goods (advertisement) etc... all these things are in stark contrast to the way Islam commands an economy to be setup... Islam prohibits all these things...

Bless you and have a good evening my friend...

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## Zarvan

Islam has its own Social and Economic System which will one day later or sooner will get establihsed in the world because ALLAH has said so even with many kafirs will not like it because of their False Interests

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## Chogy

1 ummah said:


> and ALLAH has ordered in Quran to implement his system in whole world..thats why,following footsteps of our beloved prophet(p.b.u.h) frist we have to revive that system,establish pure islamic state,where ever it may start from,*then the second step/order to implement it in whole world!*



Uh, _what if I don't want to be a part of that?_

Do you realize that this kind of talk (you are not alone in it) scares people and contributes to anti-Islamic sentiment?

I've got an amazing idea. How about letting people believe how they want to believe, and set up a society that gives people this freedom?

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## SQ8

Chogy said:


> Uh, _what if I don't want to be a part of that?_
> 
> Do you realize that this kind of talk (you are not alone in it) scares people and contributes to anti-Islamic sentiment?
> 
> *I've got an amazing idea. How about letting people believe how they want to believe, and set up a society that gives people this freedom*?


 
The system as understood( by people who actually went to college.. and did the research themselves, and are not high on hormones) is based a lot on what you say.. 
as an eg.. under a "Islamic" society.. A jewish man has rights to ask for judgement as prescribed in the torah, as a christian.. or a buddhist may. 
However, if he/she so waivers this right.. the law applicable will be the common civic law decided by the governing body(which is to consult and include members of other faiths).

What scares everybody worldwide is the distorted, misled version being touted here and there.. happens when the people leading such visions arent those with solid groundwork in religion, civic laws and an understanding of other crucial subjects.
Today the leaders are part time folks.. a banker.. a chemist.. that just got inspired by reading a certain section .. a certain passage.. and went on a copy paste spree.. and ended up creating so and so "brotherhood".. or Al-Qaeda..

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## Chogy

Santro said:


> The system as understood( by people who actually went to college.. and did the research themselves, and are not high on hormones) is based a lot on what you say..
> as an eg.. under a "Islamic" society.. A jewish man has rights to ask for judgement as prescribed in the torah, as a christian.. or a buddhist may.
> However, if he/she so waivers this right.. the law applicable will be the common civic law decided by the governing body(which is to consult and include members of other faiths).



You still didn't answer the question. You can massage the theory and image of it all you want, but it changes nothing.

It's a simple question. _What if I do not want to live under a theistic system of ANY sort? _ Do I have any say in the form of governance over me?


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## nForce

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> nForce my dear... USSR was a communist state... its a completely different ideology with a distinct economic system... Islam has an economic system of its own which is unique and different from both communism and capitalism... for example unlike communism, Islam allows numerous private possessions and properties but unlike capitalism it restricts certain things to be in the hands of the few... so it has aspects resembling communism and aspects resembling capitalism but its origin is entirely Islamic texts i.e Quran and the Sunnah as well as Ijmaa and Qiyas... These are the basis of Shariah or Islamic Law...
> 
> I can understand why our generations think towards USSR or EU... these are modern examples which we have seen to some extents in recent times... One of the problems for us is that our system has been non existant for almost a hundred years now... this is a difficulty because unless you devote quite a bit of time to some books, the beauty of our system will remain hidden from your mind... i.e its all in the books now and the minds of people who are cultured in the methodology... I can however say this much that the IS has been one of the most successful states in entire human history... despite the lack of communication and other tech that we have today, the IS achieved remarkable success and won the hearts of millions... this is the reason that although Islam entered different lands by the strength of the sword, its real power was in its intellectual discourse which melts the hearts and unites mankind in a prosperous society (regardless of religion even)... We Muslims of today of all people have to realize this that a Hindu can be a decent and honest man, hard working, talented and have similar aspirations in life... we may disagree with the basic religion but all people desire similar things in life in general, this includes economic prosperity, protection of life, dignity, honour, property... these are things that Islam guarantees for everyone... so even though the name of the state may be Islamic, it is actually a state for all those who are willing to live in Muslim lands...
> 
> So for your first question... the same is NOT happening now because today we are stuck in capitalist or socialist models across the Muslim world... depending on whether you have a Pakistan/Saudi Arabia (capitalist) or Libya/Syria (socialist)... each one of these so called States is actually at war with Allah swt and His messenger saw by implementing Riba also... unlike the wishes of its people who DONT want this war so this mess is because of the elite of these countries...
> 
> Secondly (again)... EU is Capitalist in its system... it allows fiat currency and fractional reserve banking, it allows private ownership of energy resources, it allows Riba, it allows stocks and limited companies, it allows gambling and open trade of a dangerous and hard drug (alcohol), it allows for women to be exploited for selling goods (advertisement) etc... all these things are in stark contrast to the way Islam commands an economy to be setup... Islam prohibits all these things...
> 
> Bless you and have a good evening my friend...


 
can u suggest me some books on this ideology ?? I like reading a little...


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## T-Faz

Chogy said:


> You still didn't answer the question. You can massage the theory and image of it all you want, but it changes nothing.
> 
> It's a simple question. _What if I do not want to live under a theistic system of ANY sort? _ Do I have any say in the form of governance over me?


 
The simple answer is *No* and that is why Non-Muslims and even Muslims (ones who do not subscribe to use of political religion) will always be disadvantaged in such a theistic society.

Even with a considerable consensus from amongst the subjects of such a state, there is no chance for any non theistic change in the system, the followers of the state religion and its popular variant will be better off because of their belief. 

Much like any other religiously derived state governed by a certain religious scripture, members of other religions will be restricted and at a disadvantage owing to their religious beliefs and the consequent clash that occurs with the core religion of the state.

As for those who do not approve of the system in place, they will be punished for this, the punishment however varies from sect to sect.

Btw, there are more than 70 sects in Islam as of now and their interpretation and practice of Islam varies a lot, the information that I have given above is true for certain sects but these are the mainstream variants.


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## *Awan*

Chogy said:


> Uh, _what if I don't want to be a part of that?_
> 
> Do you realize that this kind of talk (you are not alone in it) scares people and contributes to anti-Islamic sentiment?
> 
> I've got an amazing idea. How about letting people believe how they want to believe, and set up a society that gives people this freedom?



Hi sir.
welcome back after a long brake.hope you are doing well.

Under Islamic state a non Muslim is judged by their respective laws.A christian by christian law etc etc.Applied to all.In Islamic state a non muslim has same rights of muslim with little exception.he cannot became the head of state,millitary and things like this.
The statement you read very often that Islam will dominate the whole world.Actually their is Hadith (saying of Prophet Muhammad saw) that when Esa/Jesus will return second time their will be no person from people of book( jews and christians) that don't believe on him.
So the only religion that will remain will be Islam.According to our believe when Esa return he follow Islam.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Chogy said:


> Uh, _what if I don't want to be a part of that?_
> 
> Do you realize that this kind of talk (you are not alone in it) scares people and contributes to anti-Islamic sentiment?
> 
> I've got an amazing idea. How about letting people believe how they want to believe, and set up a society that gives people this freedom?


 
I cant believe anyone would be against the idea of a good life Unc...

I do agree that it scares people... but then people are misinformed and unless we have the state backing us with a strong media we cannot dispel all myths about the Caliphate... And after all this, if you still have a problem with something in the IS, feel free to give me a call... I ll sort something out for you if I can within the law...

I think its important to understand here that Islam like Capitalism and Communism seeks domination... Its a different matter than UNLIKE Communism and Capitalism it wins people over using intellectual discourse instead of just brutal bloodshed (Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam etc)

God says in the Quran... (TMQ) It is Allah who sent His Messenger with Guidance and the system of Truth so it overcomes/dominates all other systems, even though the Mushrikeen (those who ascribe partners to God's power) hate it...

The Prophet said... (translation) The Earth was shown to me shrunk so I saw its east and I saw its west and surely the dominion of Islam shall overcome all the Earth...

He also said... (translation) Islam dominates and nothing dominates above Islam

I just remembered another one... (translation)... Islam shall enter each and every house in the dunya (world)

You can still believe what you want to believe... Currently I believe Islam is a good idea but I m still forced to live under a cruel and evil ideology of Capitalism... (they re taking away all my money in taxes I swear)... and thats regardless of where I am be it Pakistan or Iran or Europe...

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## Myth_buster_1

I want to share a incident related to this subject. 
Last night around 12 I was thinking about the current Muslim world situation through the eyes of Islam. I went to the bathroom and continued the process of deep thinking about the ruling system and came to a conclusion that we must only enjoy what Allah has revealed. I believe their is no way how Muslim world can implement a true forum of khalifah because the virus has grown out of control and is incurable by us before the arrival of mehdi of course.. the virus = Secular, liberal, nationalistic, intolerant, Jahaliyaa, society which many Muslims have failed to recognize and seem to have a great time with it. So what ever the UnIslamic ruling system be it dictatorship secularism democracy etc must not be enjoyed by Muslims as the best solution but as a mean of survival only. Like living in a place where only pork is available and should only be consumed with grief and must not be enjoyed.
Just like that a screw from a door hinge dropped next to the sink! Even if the screw was lose then it was not suppose to be dropped on that spot! 
A jinn case defiantly.


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## Chogy

Gentlemen - I understand what you are saying, and I believe you are truly puzzled as to why it is unattractive to non-Muslims, and perhaps Muslims who don't believe in a Caliphate. 

The majority of the people in the world believe a Government serves the people... that is its job. A government should _not be created to serve God._ That is the job of Churches and Mosques.

While there have been many Christian nations in the past, in the sense that a nation is declared Christian, and non-Christians are at a disadvantage, there is nothing scripturally that calls for this. Christian Theology deals with an individual's relationship with God, and even Jesus said 

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's; render unto God that which is God's"

meaning authority exists which is entirely separate from the Kingdom of God. There was no blueprint for a Christian government within the Bible, and those that forced it turned into despots, with much suffering, because man is by definition imperfect and typically evil, and despite the best efforts, without actual divine intervention, _such constructs almost always fail._

I understand Pakistan is not the Caliphate, but when we see things like a Christian woman sentenced to death for insulting Islam, it absolutely freaks us out. You can claim such things wouldn't happen in the Caliphate, but what guarantee is there?

The only worthwhile form of governance is total freedom to worship or not, and to separate government function from religion.

All of the Abrahamic religions have bizarre and twisted laws and rules that were perhaps applicable for their time, but no more... do we burn astrologers, stone adulterers? Some still want to, apparently.

To summarize - it is impossible to treat all people fairly under a religious system. It won't happen, can't happen. And perhaps most importantly, to advocate the export, possibly by force, of a world-wide Caliphate - it scares the crap out of people. The majority of the people of this world would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. I wouldn't want a Christian government either, because of the chance of abuses, and because_ there are millions, billions of people who do not want it._


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## nForce

Myth_buster_1 said:


> I want to share a incident related to this subject.
> Last night around 12 I was thinking about the current Muslim world situation through the eyes of Islam. I went to the bathroom and continued the process of deep thinking about the ruling system and came to a conclusion that we must only enjoy what Allah has revealed. I believe their is no way how Muslim world can implement a true forum of khalifah because the virus has grown out of control and is incurable by us before the arrival of mehdi of course.. the virus = *Secular, liberal, nationalistic, intolerant, Jahaliyaa, society* which many Muslims have failed to recognize and seem to have a great time with it. So what ever the UnIslamic ruling system be it dictatorship secularism democracy etc must not be enjoyed by Muslims as the best solution but as a mean of survival only. Like living in a place where only pork is available and should only be consumed with grief and must not be enjoyed.
> Just like that a screw from a door hinge dropped next to the sink! Even if the screw was lose then it was not suppose to be dropped on that spot!
> A jinn case defiantly.


 
I think the bold part is contradictory...How can a society be secular,liberal and intolerant at the same point of time??

Even if you mean different kinds of society,still,how can a secular and liberal society be termed as a virus?What is wrong with such a society??


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## Myth_buster_1

nForce said:


> I think the bold part is contradictory...How can a society be secular,liberal and intolerant at the same point of time??
> 
> Even if you mean different kinds of society,still,how can a secular and liberal society be termed as a virus?What is wrong with such a society??


 
Prove me wrong that Liberal or secular society is compatible with Islam! Thats why we dont prefer Indian to comments on subject of which they have ZERO knowledge!


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## 1 ummah

Chogy said:


> Uh, _what if I don't want to be a part of that?_
> 
> Do you realize that this kind of talk (you are not alone in it) scares people and contributes to anti-Islamic sentiment?
> 
> I've got an amazing idea. How about letting people believe how they want to believe, and set up a society that gives people this freedom?


 
if u r muslim u have to obey ALLAH my dear..*ISLAM IS NOT TO QUESTION BUT TO FOLLOW*!!n if non-muslim u will be given freedm to practice bt sm restrictions e.g ..interest,drinkin(openly n selling),covering (living as dhimi/zimi,non-muslim citizn ov islamic state)

N YES ONC WE HAVE PROPER ISLAMIC STATE contradicting t all hori-tales abt islam n its system..your fears will be flushed..!..

u know wat reverts to islam say abt this deen???


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## nForce

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Prove me wrong that Liberal or secular society is compatible with Islam! Thats why we dont prefer Indian to comments on subject of which they have ZERO knowledge!


 
Where did Islam land here out of nowhere??Extrapolating things ehhh???Can you actually read what I wrote in my post?? I am not even remotely relating things with Islam here.I know,for a fact,that there are many liberal Islamic societies.

Hence,question of proving right,wrong whatever,doesnt even come to the picture....In the mean time,why dont you try answering my questions??They are at least based on exact quote of your post.....


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Chogy said:


> Gentlemen - I understand what you are saying, and I believe you are truly puzzled as to why it is unattractive to non-Muslims, and perhaps Muslims who don't believe in a Caliphate.
> 
> The majority of the people in the world believe a Government serves the people... that is its job. A government should _not be created to serve God._ That is the job of Churches and Mosques.
> 
> While there have been many Christian nations in the past, in the sense that a nation is declared Christian, and non-Christians are at a disadvantage, there is nothing scripturally that calls for this. Christian Theology deals with an individual's relationship with God, and even Jesus said
> 
> "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's; render unto God that which is God's"
> 
> meaning authority exists which is entirely separate from the Kingdom of God. There was no blueprint for a Christian government within the Bible, and those that forced it turned into despots, with much suffering, because man is by definition imperfect and typically evil, and despite the best efforts, without actual divine intervention, _such constructs almost always fail._
> 
> I understand Pakistan is not the Caliphate, but when we see things like a Christian woman sentenced to death for insulting Islam, it absolutely freaks us out. You can claim such things wouldn't happen in the Caliphate, but what guarantee is there?
> 
> The only worthwhile form of governance is total freedom to worship or not, and to separate government function from religion.
> 
> All of the Abrahamic religions have bizarre and twisted laws and rules that were perhaps applicable for their time, but no more... do we burn astrologers, stone adulterers? Some still want to, apparently.
> 
> To summarize - it is impossible to treat all people fairly under a religious system. It won't happen, can't happen. And perhaps most importantly, to advocate the export, possibly by force, of a world-wide Caliphate - it scares the crap out of people. The majority of the people of this world would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. I wouldn't want a Christian government either, because of the chance of abuses, and because_ there are millions, billions of people who do not want it._


 
Taking the last part first, there are millions who actually want it... The trick is to shift the power in the hands of those who want it and know what to do with it...

There are fundamental flaws in your argument Unc... Firstly you are comparing Islam with Christinity... the problem there is which you have noticed yourself... that Christianity does not provide a framework for a government... this is not the case for Islam which does provide such a framework and that is the Caliphate... not only it provided this framework but this framework worked for more than a thousand years in various forms (some better than others and the best being the Rashideen)... 

Secondly we are not puzzled why it is unattractive to non Muslims or so called Muslims... we know from the example of the Prophet that the majority of people will stick to status quo in the name of tradition, benefit, custom, tribe/nation etc... it is the few who bring about the change... what would be puzzling would be that people do not join the Caliphate en masse because once the system starts operating one of its beauty has been that people join it and support it... in the expression of the Quran AFWAJA i.e Entire Armies of People joining it... this is because a living example is better than theoretical concepts... 

Thirdly the majority of people DO NOT believe that governments serve people... they believe that it SHOULD serve the people... 

IS is not supposed to serve God only... rather serve people in accordance with the way God has commanded... This is where juris comes in... you have to have a law to sort out the conflicts that can arise amongst people... in that regard Islam orders the setting up of courts and implementation of justice according to legislation contained in the Quran and Sunnah... It has absolutely nothing to do with personal worship in this regard... So IS serves both God and Man... The Bible describes it as... Thy Kingdom Come... Thy will be done... On Earth... Like it is done in the Heavens!!!

People are scared because of punishment? Well a Christian woman should have better sense not to insult Islam/Muhammad living amongst Muslims... the application of the blasphemy law is obviously a bad joke in Pakistan as whatever is happening in Pakistan in itself is blasphemy, but in the Caliphate once it is proven that someone has deliberately insulted Muhammad saw he/she will be executed in public... same goes for those who commit adultery... and before people panic... heres the interesting part... In 1300 years of the Caliphate only three people were ever stoned... two based on confessions... point being its next to impossible to prove Adultery... also there is no need for anyone to insult Muhammad because every law in the Caliphate can be challenged in a court... the Caliphate is the very name of the honor and dignity of Muslims restored to them... in the past the noble Caliph Sultan Abdul Hameed Thani even threatened war against Britain over this issue of blasphemy and despite the weakness of the Ottomans the Brits were careful not to have Jihad Akbar declared against them... so they desisted... today it has gone to the extent that with stooges like Busharaf and Zardari sitting on top of hundreds and thousands of armed troops the lands, honor, dignity and wealth of Muslims is not safe... in the name of freedom of speech we have been insulted by the infidel west... we will make this stop by making an example out of the first few who dare insult our Prophet again... watch this space... the SSG has yet to be used with its full potential 

I totally disagree with the idea of people not being treated fairly under Islam... You can certainly say Christianity but not Islam... I wrote a little comment earlier but it did nt get posted... but there are a zillion examples of non Muslims living prosperously under the Caliphate... Do check out the story of Zildjian Cymbals when you have time... you ll love it if you are into Drumming... 

Islam is supposed to scare those who hold hostility against Muslims and the ideology... that goes for all ideologies... I mean Capitalists were nt really celebrities under Communism were they? and Che Guvera is nt really a hero of any US president... The clash is there folks... the only thing you can do here is choose your side wisely... because this world is going to end... and life after death can either be a blessing or worse than the worst nightmares...


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## SQ8

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> ..*. we will make this stop by making an example out of the first few who dare insult our Prophet again... watch this space... the SSG has yet to be used with its full potential *
> ..


 
You counting on the "luck o the irish" then to get to happen 
Blasphemers are like leprechauns.. they'll vanish and wont give you any of their pot......




of gold that is.

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## VCheng

May I please have some of what he is smoking?


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## SQ8

VCheng said:


> May I please have some of what he is smoking?


 
You are better off with a bollinger 68...
Its less harmful.

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## Myth_buster_1

nForce said:


> Where did Islam land here out of nowhere??Extrapolating things ehhh???Can you actually read what I wrote in my post?? I am not even remotely relating things with Islam here.I know,for a fact,that there are many liberal Islamic societies.
> 
> Hence,question of proving right,wrong whatever,doesnt even come to the picture....In the mean time,why dont you try answering my questions??They are at least based on exact quote of your post.....


 
An over smart Indian that you are so before telling others to read the post I advice you read the thread title and then my post which you replied to. IN FACT THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS ABOUT ISLAM ISLAM AND ISLAM AND SO IS MY POST!
And oh, their is no such thing as "Liberal Islamic societies" because its a matter created by Muslims! Prophet Mohammed PBUH clearly said that who ever invented anything in our matter (religion=Islam) which is not part of it, will have it rejected! Muslims ever since the death of prophet Mohammed PBUH have invented soooo many things and presented it as Islam which is a rejection according to our prophet. Now if you would have adequate comprehension level you would know that Liberal societies is not "ISLAM" at most it could be Muslim Societies and Muslim does not equates to Islam automatically.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

VCheng said:


> May I please have some of what he is smoking?


 
Is that supposed to insult me?

Fine... You are the type of scum that would sell his mother for a cheap price right?

Well if that offended you... how do you think that Islamic State based in the name of ISLAM and MUHAMMAD's teachings is supposed to react when someone insults the messenger... When Muhammad saw is much greater and honorable than your mother... You got offended by my statement above did nt you? why is it that you think those who talk about retaliation against blasphemers must be smoking something?

You are an idiot of the highest order... If you cant contribute appropriately here its better you do not comment... 

You have been trying to act like a smartass here around my comments for quite some time... I would recommend that you rotate off and get a life...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Santro said:


> You counting on the "luck o the irish" then to get to happen
> Blasphemers are like leprechauns.. they'll vanish and wont give you any of their pot......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of gold that is.


 
As I said Santro... watch this space...

and how would you feel if I insulted your mother??

Do you really want me to now? Lets see now?? Tell me... If you want me to insult your mother just say it here... and dont be smoking any pot by not banning me... see... thats hard now considering you are a moderator on this forum... I insult your mother so badly and you not doing anything despite having all the power of being able to virtually kill me from this forum...

Go on then what is it going to be... perhaps I m pushing it... but then an indication is enough for a wise man... 

you might not be that person though... so I ll tell you what yeah... unlike you i believe that everyone should be respected and specially around their beliefs...

Peace


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Santro said:


> You are better off with a bollinger 68...
> Its less harmful.


 
Its less harmful than Islam? Or is it less harmful than pot?

No wonder Pakistan has become the place it is... These are the elites running our country and our forums... 

sad beyond all sadness... 

khair... watch this space... the days of your "type" running the show are definitely going to come to an end... inshaAllah and amen to that


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

And Santro.. let me challenge your manhood here also...

If you are such a man that you act to be on the internet and you are against the blasphemy law... why not say such a thing in public... write a letter with your name and address in the newspaper...

point being that you secularist types are a bunch of cowards... you ll never engage in the open with society... internet is the only place left for you to pour out your venom against the rest of Pakistan... the one who was trying to be brave about the "black" blasphemy law got gunned down recently... so you know your standing amongst the rest of Pakistan... at least I am decent enough not to approve of blasphemy in any form (even though I was against the killing of Taseer)...

so there... if you the man... come out in the open... and talk about your "pot" of gold that others are smoking when they stand to protect their honor...

Hows auntie doing btw? Give my salam to her...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

nForce...

I have nt forgotten you... I ll give you the names of a few books soon God willing... 

The problem is that some of the books on economics are very difficult to understand... so I m looking for easier ones for you that I have seen before...


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## SQ8

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Its less harmful than Islam? Or is it less harmful than pot?
> 
> No wonder Pakistan has become the place it is... These are the elites running our country and our forums...
> 
> sad beyond all sadness...
> 
> khair... watch this space... the days of your "type" running the show are definitely going to come to an end... inshaAllah and amen to that


 
Why?
are leprechauns taking over??

And going to parents.. wow.. 
you are low.. 
all that talk of Islam by the Irishman and it all goes down the drain..
The fact is.. the person whom you accuse of being a secularist.. sees you hizb types for who they are.. hypocritical lowlifes who enjoy their **** yet go out defaming the religion and prophet with their misled bs.

Come out in the open.. said the man sitting in the land of pubs..

Thank you for inquiring about my mother.. she is well.. and proud of me.


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## Myth_buster_1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Is that supposed to insult me?
> 
> Fine... You are the type of scum that would sell his mother for a cheap price right?
> 
> Well if that offended you... how do you think that Islamic State based in the name of ISLAM and MUHAMMAD's teachings is supposed to react when someone insults the messenger... When Muhammad saw is much greater and honorable than your mother... You got offended by my statement above did nt you? why is it that you think those who talk about retaliation against blasphemers must be smoking something?
> 
> You are an idiot of the highest order... If you cant contribute appropriately here its better you do not comment...
> 
> You have been trying to act like a smartass here around my comments for quite some time... I would recommend that you rotate off and get a life...


 
Bro dont you think death penalty would be tooo much? I believe few years in jail or kicking the blasphemers out of the Muslim land would be a better law then hanging him/her.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Bro dont you think death penalty would be tooo much? I believe few years in jail or kicking the blasphemers out of the Muslim land would be a better law then hanging him/her.


 

Sir, the thing is that we don't make laws on our own. . . This penalty is by the Holy Prophet (S.A.W). Although there should be a review as to when this penalty applies and then everyone should be informed by this law. .

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## Ahmad

There is a problem with death penalty. what if there is wrong conviction? it means we will kill an innocent person.


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## VCheng

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Is that supposed to insult me?
> 
> Fine... You are the type of scum that would sell his mother for a cheap price right?
> 
> Well if that offended you... how do you think that Islamic State based in the name of ISLAM and MUHAMMAD's teachings is supposed to react when someone insults the messenger... When Muhammad saw is much greater and honorable than your mother... You got offended by my statement above did nt you? why is it that you think those who talk about retaliation against blasphemers must be smoking something?
> 
> You are an idiot of the highest order... If you cant contribute appropriately here its better you do not comment...
> 
> You have been trying to act like a smartass here around my comments for quite some time... I would recommend that you rotate off and get a life...



How typically juvenile: to go after the person when you have nothing left to discuss ideas.

I would have responded, but I will wait until you have changed your mental diaper and stopped stinking up the whole forum.

Jaao beta, apni amma se keho aapkey kaprey badal dein, aur unhein mera salaam kehna.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Santro said:


> Why?
> are leprechauns taking over??
> 
> And going to parents.. wow..
> you are low..
> all that talk of Islam by the Irishman and it all goes down the drain..
> The fact is.. the person whom you accuse of being a secularist.. sees you hizb types for who they are.. hypocritical lowlifes who enjoy their **** yet go out defaming the religion and prophet with their misled bs.
> 
> Come out in the open.. said the man sitting in the land of pubs..
> 
> Thank you for inquiring about my mother.. she is well.. and proud of me.


 
Exactly... My point proven... If you get insulted... you get angry... so executing blasphemers who disregard the sentiments of Muslims (again only when it is proven beyond doubt not what happens in Pakistan)... and insult the greatest man who ever lived... the man who is greater than myself, my mother and father... I would be more than happy to put a bullet in such a person's head...

The Secularists simply dont get it... one can only sigh at the irony of it all... and I m the one who is a lowlife for pointing out the double standards so visible on this forum here...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

VCheng said:


> How typically juvenile: to go after the person when you have nothing left to discuss ideas.
> 
> I would have responded, but I will wait until you have changed your mental diaper and stopped stinking up the whole forum.
> 
> Jaao beta, apni amma se keho aapkey kaprey badal dein, aur unhein mera salaam kehna.


 
You insult others and then have the audacity to think that others are wearing diapers... 

Khair... you can insult me all you like... I could insult you back... just one of the great things about the internet... anyone can play that game...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Ahmad said:


> There is a problem with death penalty. what if there is wrong conviction? it means we will kill an innocent person.


 
Hey my favorite Afghan on the forum (the only Afghan actually)

When there is doubt... there is no punishment... This is a golden rule of Islamic juris...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

To change the mood of the forum from the distractors... 

The spokes person said...

What stop Kiani, pasha, Qamar Suleiman to shot down the drone? Its American masters!!! Stop the pity excuse that the traitor rulers do not allow you. No doubt Zardari Gilani are American agents, and so are you. You allowed American to your bases, you allowed CIA, You allowed Supply line, You allowed drones, and you sacrificed our 5000 brave troops for America. You are a sham for our valiant armed forces. Enough!!!


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Am reading the latest news... an interesting article caught my eye just now...

The point is that America does not need an Al Qaeda or Caliphate for its ultimate destruction... 

John McCain would do the job just fine... 

McCain Proposes Indefinite Detention Without Trial for Citizens


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Bro dont you think death penalty would be tooo much? I believe few years in jail or kicking the blasphemers out of the Muslim land would be a better law then hanging him/her.


 
If it were upto me my friend I would become so big that I could cover the entrance to Hell... so that no one could go inside it


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## Ahmad

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Hey my favorite Afghan on the forum (the only Afghan actually)
> 
> When there is doubt... there is no punishment... This is a golden rule of Islamic juris...


 
I appreciate the nice words bro.

Yes, if there is doubt no punishment, but there have been numerious occasions that the person have been convicted with no doubt, but later on due to progress in science nad techonolgy, they realized that there was somthing that they couldnt see it that time and the whole conviction was later on removed. Secondly, what i am saying is not in support of a murderer, if somebody takes another person's life with crutly, no mercy should be shown to him.


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## SQ8

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Exactly... My point proven... If you get insulted... you get angry... so executing blasphemers who disregard the sentiments of Muslims (again only when it is proven beyond doubt not what happens in Pakistan)... and insult the greatest man who ever lived... the man who is greater than myself, my mother and father... I would be more than happy to put a bullet in such a person's head...
> 
> The Secularists simply dont get it... one can only sigh at the irony of it all... and I m the one who is a lowlife for pointing out the double standards so visible on this forum here...


 
Ah.. double standards..
Im sure the prophet would'nt approve of bringing in family into this argument..
Lets see.. 
can ayaan ali hirsi be hit.. you cant do it.. she in your continent.. 
but somehow you have no issues going after Taseer.. who while a trash talking uber secularist.. did stand up for what was right..
what bravery..
You've taken the U turn here.. 
Given the chance.. id shoot people like Hirsi, who cannot be reasoned with since they are on a bank roll.
But i also realize that mangoes dont grow on the moon..
Your passion blinds you.. if star wars is any analogy.. Islam is the force.. and you have succumbed to the dark side.


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## Myth_buster_1

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> Sir, the thing is that we don't make laws on our own. . . This penalty is by the Holy Prophet (S.A.W). Although there should be a review as to when this penalty applies and then everyone should be informed by this law. .


 
Do you have hadis or sunnah to back it up? Even if you are right then cant we have a slight change in the law by not putting someone to death for just speaking negative of our religion? If this law is implemented in Pak then you will have even more non muslims and muslims hate Islam even more. And the point here is to bring entire mankind closer to our religion not scare them away. Thats why I keep saying. Us Muslims can not possibly bring the true form of Khalifa on our own before Mehdi.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Santro said:


> Ah.. double standards..
> Im sure the prophet would'nt approve of bringing in family into this argument..
> Lets see..
> can ayaan ali hirsi be hit.. you cant do it.. she in your continent..
> but somehow you have no issues going after Taseer.. who while a trash talking uber secularist.. did stand up for what was right..
> what bravery..
> You've taken the U turn here..
> Given the chance.. id shoot people like Hirsi, who cannot be reasoned with since they are on a bank roll.
> But i also realize that mangoes dont grow on the moon..
> Your passion blinds you.. if star wars is any analogy.. Islam is the force.. and you have succumbed to the dark side.


 
Santro meray bhai... instead of taking all my comments negatively I humbly request you not to be emotional and think about this issue deeply...

You talk about Hirsi Ali as if I m protecting her... Not only have I spoken against her in public in the open, newspapers and political forums that are read by the entire political arena of my resident country, I ve almost been in trouble for saying things so openly... but my comment about the SSG was for very such people as Hirsi Ali... Infact the Dutch would be more than happy to get rid of her as she has been a burden on the tax payers money and has been proven to have lied in the past... 

Furthermore I remember very clearly that the Secularists running this forum were banning everyone who was supporting Taseer's murder and yet I said it then that we should condemn such actions.... reason being because Islam does not allow one man to become judge, jury and executioner... so his murder was wrong too... however his stance on the issue of the law being a black law no decent person can support... why should we degrade ourselves and allow the scum of the earth to insult our deen and our master huh? The problem with the case of that woman was the British court system that runs in our country which allows even accusations as enough to jail someone... 

and then given the chance you d shoot Hirsi? is that any different to what I said here? so what re we fighting over then? and do you honestly think that I could or would insult you... the comment was solely to draw your attention to this issue... that you cant and should nt tolerate insults against yourself... and the Islamic State is no different in that regards... Auntie is like my mother too yaar....

I do agree with you... I have a lot of "dark side" in me... this is why I used to say to my mentors that the people ruining our country today... the civilians as well as in the army should be shown absolutely no mercy and executed after a summary trial like what happens in bloody revolutions... sometimes I go back to those thoughts and wonder if this could be an ideal thing for our country... however I am bound by Islam and there should be mercy for all... including the well known hypocrites and their supporters... The system of Allah has delivered before and can deliver again... the hypocrites and those who hold animosity against us Muslims can burn in their own hate and jealousy for all that we care... instead of wasting time bickering with each other I say we should be uniting at all levels and face the threats our land is facing... denial is not an option... treason can only be tolerated for so long... Secularism has been tried to death... we need a change and the best man left the best system behind...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Do you have hadis or sunnah to back it up? Even if you are right then cant we have a slight change in the law by not putting someone to death for just speaking negative of our religion? If this law is implemented in Pak then you will have even more non muslims and muslims hate Islam even more. And the point here is to bring entire mankind closer to our religion not scare them away. Thats why I keep saying. Us Muslims can not possibly bring the true form of Khalifa on our own before Mehdi.


 
There is evidence in Islam... but you also have a point there...

The issue is that people dont go around insulting each other commonly... I think this much everyone agrees on... I know non Muslims who speak highly of Islam and I know non Muslims who are just downright stupid... the issue of Blasphemy is when all manner of options are available to a person... he/she can discuss, debate, adopt any stance he/she wants... yet still chooses to resort to insults... OR when there is war... in these two scenarios Blasphemers are not to be shown any mercy...

Have you read what Salahuddin Ayubi did to the Knight that insulted Muhammad saw??


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## VCheng

This thread is positively comical in its delusions!


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

VCheng said:


> This thread is positively comical in its delusions!


 
and this is the height and max limit of your engagement in the discussion... Can you perhaps do better?

Lemme guess... Why would a great man like you engage with us lowlives on a delusional thread about implementing the system of Allah in a "Muslim Majority" land... remind me again... how many Hajj have you done so far? was it 12... Did you go there to mock Muslims praying to Allah? 

For someone who quotes Daffy Duck in his signature... YOu do know a thing or two about being comical... I would use the word Pathetic for you though... You re more annoying than you are funny...


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## VCheng

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> ........thread about implementing the system of Allah in a "Muslim Majority" land..........



You mean Pakistan? Look at what horrors your ilk has already wrought on a peaceful people. And you want to go to a brazen dictatorship under the garb of a most peaceful religion?

No thank you.

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## Myth_buster_1

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Have you read what Salahuddin Ayubi did to the Knight that insulted Muhammad saw??



The way how Crusaders landed on holy land deserved to be killed on sight because of their inhumane treatment of not just Muslims but Christians and Jews as well. Salahuddin did spare alot of prisoners lives and thats why he was highly respected and feared still today. 
I believe those knights that you are talking about did not just insult Islam but harassed Muslim women and children as well thats why their death can be justified but today's context its quite different.


> There is evidence in Islam...


Those evidence can be used out of context. 
I am sure their are alot other positive Islamic things that can be implemented.

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## Chogy

> and insult the greatest man who ever lived... the man who is greater than myself, my mother and father... I would be more than happy to put a bullet in such a person's head...



And here in a tidy package is exactly why a proposed Caliphate _repulses _us.

It's wonderful that you have such belief in Muhammed. I personally do not insult him, because it is hurtful, and I am a polite person. But here's the rub - Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Shinto, Wiccans, the majority of the world simply do not hold him in your esteem. We don't believe in him.

Please answer these questions...

1) Within a Caliphate, do you (or the Caliphate courts) have the right to kill me if I insult Muhammed?

2) Do you honestly believe if Muhammed himself appeared just before my execution for insulting Islam, that _he would approve of my death... over a verbal insult?_

If the answer to any of these is yes, God help us.

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## VCheng

Chogy said:


> And here in a tidy package is exactly why a proposed Caliphate _repulses _us.
> 
> It's wonderful that you have such belief in Muhammed. I personally do not insult him, because it is hurtful, and I am a polite person. But here's the rub - Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Shinto, Wiccans, the majority of the world simply do not hold him in your esteem. We don't believe in him.
> 
> Please answer these questions...
> 
> 1) Within a Caliphate, do you (or the Caliphate courts) have the right to kill me if I insult Muhammed?
> 
> 2) Do you honestly believe if Muhammed himself appeared just before my execution for insulting Islam, that _he would approve of my death... over a verbal insult?_
> 
> If the answer to any of these is yes, God help us.


 

Chogy: Please forgive them for they know not what they do or say. However, there are enough people like you and me working together to stop their delusions for sure.

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## The HBS Guy

VCheng said:


> Chogy: Please forgive them for they know not what they do. However, there are enough people like you and me working together to stop their delusions for sure.


 
Hey Jesus said that!

...ehhmmm...did he mention Chogy by any chance?


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## VCheng

The HBS Guy said:


> Hey Jesus said that!
> 
> ...ehhmmm...did he mention Chogy by any chance?



Who is this person "Jesus" you speak of?

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## The HBS Guy

VCheng said:


> Who is this person "Jesus" you speak of?


 
What you don't know Jesus? 

Oh, He's a pretty jolly fellow. We're having beer together this evening over there at THE DINER. 

...wrote a book they told me. 

...feel free to join.

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## VCheng

The HBS Guy said:


> What you don't know Jesus?
> 
> Oh, He's a pretty jolly fellow. We're having beer together this evening over there at THE DINER.
> 
> ...wrote a book they told me.
> 
> ...feel free to join.



Thank you for the invite.

How about having an OBL on me?

Two shots and a splash of water!

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## The HBS Guy

VCheng said:


> Thank you for the invite.
> 
> How about having an OBL on me?
> 
> Two shots and a splash of water!


 
Sure why not!

You want anything to go with it?

Are you into weed?

How 'bout a Zawaheeri ...solid stuff they say.

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## VCheng

The HBS Guy said:


> Sure why not!
> 
> You want anything to go with it?
> 
> Are you into weed?
> 
> How 'bout a Zawaheeri ...solid stuff they say.


 
Nah man, thanks, I am an idiot even BEFORE getting high!

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Chogy said:


> And here in a tidy package is exactly why a proposed Caliphate _repulses _us.
> 
> It's wonderful that you have such belief in Muhammed. I personally do not insult him, because it is hurtful, and I am a polite person. But here's the rub - Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Shinto, Wiccans, the majority of the world simply do not hold him in your esteem. We don't believe in him.
> 
> Please answer these questions...
> 
> 1) Within a Caliphate, do you (or the Caliphate courts) have the right to kill me if I insult Muhammed?
> 
> 2) Do you honestly believe if Muhammed himself appeared just before my execution for insulting Islam, that _he would approve of my death... over a verbal insult?_
> 
> If the answer to any of these is yes, God help us.


 
Well Unc I do not hold your father or mother in high esteem either... but I do have the sense of respecting them because otherwise I should NOT complain if you kick me in the head... thats only reasonable... Now for your questions...

The courts decide that since you insulted the leader of Muslims, their beloved prophet whom THEY hold in high esteem (even though you dont)... Every Muslim has the right to kick you in the head once... Now that would mean a billion kicks to the head as there are a billion Muslims in the world... so a bullet is a much more humane method for executing someone of this crime I think...

Muhammad saw himself ordered the death of WOMAN whose sole crime was writing insulting poetry against Islam, Muhammad and Muslims... When all of Mecca was spared and pardoned... even Hinda the woman who hired a marksman to kill his favorite uncle Hamza in the battle of Uhud and later tore open Hamza's body and chewed his liver and cut off his ears and nose and made a necklace out of his teeth... even that woman was spared and forgiven... however the woman who wrote insulting poetry was searched for in Mecca and executed in public... along with another person who begged for mercy hanging by the cloths of the Kabaa... the companions of the Prophet came and said that this man was begging for mercy hanging by the Kabaa, yet the prophet saw ordered his execution...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

VCheng said:


> You mean Pakistan? Look at what horrors your ilk has already wrought on a peaceful people. And you want to go to a brazen dictatorship under the garb of a most peaceful religion?
> 
> No thank you.


 
Oh for God sake man... Get yourself a Rabies injection will ya...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

VCheng said:


> Chogy: Please forgive them for they know not what they do or say. However, there are enough people like you and me working together to stop their delusions for sure.


 
Let me assure you you secularist scum of the Earth... we are going to achieve what we want... You can try your best and see what we do also... Infact if you are able to stop the return of the Caliphate... be my guest... I wont be the man I say I am within the next five years if you dont see it happening... inshaAllah

perhaps then the CIA would stop funding you... lol


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## The HBS Guy

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Well Unc I do not hold your father or mother in high esteem either... but I do have the sense of respecting them because otherwise I should NOT complain if you kick me in the head... thats only reasonable... Now for your questions...
> 
> The courts decide that since you insulted the leader of Muslims, their beloved prophet whom THEY hold in high esteem (even though you dont)... Every Muslim has the right to kick you in the head once... Now that would mean a billion kicks to the head as there are a billion Muslims in the world... so a bullet is a much more humane method for executing someone of this crime I think...



How do the courts decide as to whom to let kick me? Does 'any Muslim' include bad Muslims too? By 'bad Muslims' I mean those Muslims who have sinned. 

<As it is, every human being in this world has sinned>


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## The HBS Guy

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Let me assure you you secularist scum of the Earth... we are going to achieve what we want... You can try your best and see what we do also... Infact if you are able to stop the return of the Caliphate... be my guest... I wont be the man I say I am within the next five years if you dont see it happening... inshaAllah
> 
> perhaps then the CIA would stop funding you... lol


 
Ok so the Caliphate is coming in the next five years?

Is there any prophecy for this or is this just another of your claims.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

interesting article... 

Currency of the Khilafah


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## Awesome

Such hate speech and messages from an organization like Hzb-ut-Tahrir has no place on this forum

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## SQ8

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Santro meray bhai... instead of taking all my comments negatively I humbly request you not to be emotional and think about this issue deeply...
> 
> You talk about Hirsi Ali as if I m protecting her... Not only have I spoken against her in public in the open, newspapers and political forums that are read by the entire political arena of my resident country, I ve almost been in trouble for saying things so openly... but my comment about the SSG was for very such people as Hirsi Ali... Infact the Dutch would be more than happy to get rid of her as she has been a burden on the tax payers money and has been proven to have lied in the past...
> 
> Furthermore I remember very clearly that the Secularists running this forum were banning everyone who was supporting Taseer's murder and yet I said it then that we should condemn such actions.... reason being because Islam does not allow one man to become judge, jury and executioner... so his murder was wrong too... however his stance on the issue of the law being a black law no decent person can support... why should we degrade ourselves and allow the scum of the earth to insult our deen and our master huh? The problem with the case of that woman was the British court system that runs in our country which allows even accusations as enough to jail someone...
> 
> and then given the chance you d shoot Hirsi? is that any different to what I said here? so what re we fighting over then? and do you honestly think that I could or would insult you... the comment was solely to draw your attention to this issue... that you cant and should nt tolerate insults against yourself... and the Islamic State is no different in that regards... Auntie is like my mother too yaar....
> 
> I do agree with you... I have a lot of "dark side" in me... this is why I used to say to my mentors that the people ruining our country today... the civilians as well as in the army should be shown absolutely no mercy and executed after a summary trial like what happens in bloody revolutions... sometimes I go back to those thoughts and wonder if this could be an ideal thing for our country... however I am bound by Islam and there should be mercy for all... including the well known hypocrites and their supporters... The system of Allah has delivered before and can deliver again... the hypocrites and those who hold animosity against us Muslims can burn in their own hate and jealousy for all that we care... instead of wasting time bickering with each other I say we should be uniting at all levels and face the threats our land is facing... denial is not an option... treason can only be tolerated for so long... Secularism has been tried to death... we need a change and the best man left the best system behind...


 
Your last paragraph is where I insist there is a problem..
what you promote is the "slam bam thank you maam" attitude that results in more harm than good.


I dont support uber secularism.. 
and while I promote the fact that a lot of answers to a lot of problems are explainable by our belief.. not everything is.. and not everything need be.
The answers to the rest we must find ourselves.. and perhaps the unexplained in religion will reveal itself to us as well.

Which is why it is unrealistic to expect that you will be 100% accurate at all times in identifying a blasphemer.. or that it is always necessary to go and take one out...especially when you are in no position to protect yourself from yourselves..
I repeat what I said in the Taseer threads.. 
If Taseer was critiquing the whole concept of blasphemy.. then he was asking for it.
If Taseer was critiquing the Blasphemy law in the constitution of Pakistan.. then I support him.. its a BLACK law, Its a HARAM law.

The attack America ideals, attack the west ideals I ridicule for a reason, and a good one.. I dont bother with uber secular ideals.. I entertain them for what they are.. ignorant. I know that they are different.. they will not effect me or my belief.. or those close to me. Even if they do try to penetrate it.. I can handle it... since it stands apart from my belief.

I do worry about all these new "tahrirs" and their unrealistically hedged demands for a rushed caliphate.. why?.. because while they appear to follow the words.. they use the scripture, they show a glorious future.. their approach and their context is flawed. 
Many interpretations I cant swallow.. since they are either too stark.. or a translation selected which supports their cause.
Its not for me, I dont like my gut feeling about it.. I consider them in the same light as I consider all these revivalist movements. They are led by "mufti's".. not scholars.. and in my view.. A scholar is to a judge as many of these "mufti's" are to oath commissioners.. They have all the books.. they read this.. paraphrase that.. and come up with some sort of answer to a problem. They do NOT have genuine knowledge.. genuine understanding of their subject. 
And while there were and are genuine scholars of Islam in this world.. those that lead, organize and/or form the inspiration for many of these groups are NOT amongst them to me.
There are many names when it comes to scholars today but these people emphasized above all else.. the need to reform ourselves out of the closed loop mentality, the "dark-side" ideals.. where all is violence and rebellion when your views are not accepted. Where the path shown is shown without its hazards.. and without caution.. that is dangerous.
I remember two or three years back when I attended a famous Ijtema that happens here.. One of the most firebrand young speakers was all about Jihad and caliphate.. about the need for islamic reforms.. the need to punish the west and all the "fahashi (secularists)".. 
later on.. I met the fellow and the discussion came to education.. and he proudly told me that by the grace of god he has been admitted on scholarship at a university in sweden... ironic that sweden has the highest population of people that declare themselves atheists..
talk about sleeping with the enemy then.
You want to establish a caliphate.. subhanallah... 
you want to punish the blasphemers.. bismillah..
But please dump your girlfriend too habibi.. jazakallah.

You arent perfect, neither am I.. and the concept of caliphate is not for the weak hearted.. or the weak foundation. Your foundation, mine.. the nations.. and Muslims all over.. are weak.. one must strengthen them first by removing all those elements that seek to damage us from the Inside.. and while uber secularists are amongst them.. they are a common cold compared to the blood cancer that grows in the form of the Taliban, Al-Qaeda and other not so prominent.. dormant.. yet equally dangerous movements.
To tackle any threat.. you need some sort of preparation.. unless you are surprised.. and right now.. you are not.
One can heal wounds.. bandage the knife cut... but what will you do about cancer??.. 
Is it better to be internally fit and then go into battle. .. or go anyway??
Right now.. the need is to fight the cancer.. keep the external threats at bay as long as you can.. delay them.. till you build your strength..

And.. do not be brash, do not be arrogant.. 
Take the example of the battle of Badr.. 
Where tactics and strategy were equally important.. as other factors..

These days.. its the same as the battle of the trench.. 
bear it out.. there will be a time later.
Take out the hypocrites from within first.. since right now.. they will stoop to using god.. and every other force that will deceive your passion and emotions into striking at those within you that mean well.. 

Islam is not the only religion that has been used as an excuse to murder people for worldly gains. However, it is the only religion that has damaged its own more than it has damaged others.
It is time this ends..

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