# PAF revamped Air Defense Alert System



## Dazzler

credit for images and video goes to our member

@airbus101

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
70


----------



## Hassan Guy

Is the last image in Kashmir?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler



Reactions: Like Like:
23


----------



## Major Sam

which radars are shown in the last 4 pictures?v


----------



## Dazzler

the real deal...

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
51


----------



## WaLeEdK2

I'm sure drones regularly circle around areas too no?


----------



## Green Ranger

Awesome , now no indian jet can even dare to roam and come to our home land

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Kompromat

@Stealth fyi

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Darth Vader

@Dazzler 
Good Pic but shouldn't post pictures static radars locations
E.g 6 7 8

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

WaLeEdK2 said:


> I'm sure drones regularly circle around areas too no?



yes, they do, 24/7

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## X-2.

Dazzler said:


> credit for images and video goes to our member
> 
> @airbus101
> 
> 
> View attachment 337624
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337625
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337626
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337627
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337628
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337629
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337630
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337631


Sensitively locational pictures shouldn't hv been posted



Darth Vader said:


> @Dazzler
> Good Pic but shouldn't post pictures static radars locations
> E.g 6 7 8


Yea i agree few are sensitive -_-

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Super Falcon

What type of radars we have 

Few years back I heated Pak was interested in Czech Republican radars which can detect stealth jets any news on them

Do PAF has radars to detect drones

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## X-2.

Super Falcon said:


> What type of radars we have
> 
> Few years back I heated Pak was interested in Czech Republican radars which can detect stealth jets any news on them
> 
> Do PAF has radars to detect drones


----------



## Rukarl

Major Sam said:


> which radars are shown in the last 4 pictures?v



The first one is the American TPS-77:






I can't really see the 2nd one.


The third one is the American TPS-43:






And the last one seems to be the Chinese YLC-6:







You're

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## Super Falcon

Open literature sources claim VERA-E systems have been exported to Estonia, Pakistan and the United States. Newspaper reports also claimed that in January 2004 the Czech defence sales company, Omnipol, received licence to sell six systems to China. However, US government pressure on the Czech government resulted in the cancellation of this contract. Civil systems have been widely exported throughout Europe.

Within the Czech Republic, a mobile VERA-E unit is operated by the 53rd Passive Radiotechnical Reconnaissance System and Electronic Warfare Centre at Planá near České Budějovice.

Pakistan has this VERA e radar too

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## metalfalcon

DIL KHUSH HO GIYA THANDH PARR GAYI DIL MEIN YEH PICS DEKH KAY.

*"Her Taraf hai Nazar, Durr Ki Pass Ki Mughe Hai sub Khabar" (PAF SONG)*

Really Happy to see PAF "EFFICIENTLY" Utilizing the Tax Money of Poor People of Pakistan. If Today India has Hesitated to Launch Surgical Strikes or whatever Strikes Against Pakistan its Only Because of Readiness of PAF. 

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Rukarl said:


> The first one is the American TPS-77:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't really see the 2nd one.
> 
> 
> The third one is the American TPS-43:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the last one seems to be the Chinese YLC-6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're



we also operate nriet made YLC-2 long range 3d advanced radars and Siemens made vintage but reliable Mobile Pulse Doppler Radar (MPDR)

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Rocky rock

Credit Goes to "Print Screen"


----------



## Dazzler

To all those concerned individuals who are worrying about secrecy and locations, this video can also be found on youtube.

Reactions: Like Like:
18


----------



## Rukarl

Dazzler said:


> we also operate nriet made YLC-2 long range 3d advanced radars and Siemens made vintage but reliable Mobile Pulse Doppler Radar (MPDR)



Pakistan has some decent radars systems, but I fear you're lacking in the surface to air missile department. If you feel the Russian will drag their feet in selling their S series, then go for a few HQ-9!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Path-Finder

Rukarl said:


> Pakistan has some decent radars systems, but I fear you're lacking in the surface to air missile department. If you feel the Russian will drag their feet in selling their S series, then go for a few HQ-9!


there are unconfirmed and unverifiable reports that HQ9 is in the arsenal. But there is no concrete evidence as of yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Saleem

still doesnt seem to be any close in protection for the AWACs etc....even after the experience of loosing 3 out of four AWACs no lesson has been learnt ...the base commander needs a dressing down......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Darth Vader

X-2. said:


> Sensitively locational pictures shouldn't hv been posted
> 
> 
> Yea i agree few are sensitive -_-


Because Just a hard work And this locations Can be tracked and will be easy Target for Enemy Be it Internal or External



Dazzler said:


> To all those concerned individuals who are worrying about secrecy and locations, this video can also be found on youtube.


Than Its Up To PAF Because This Locations Should Be to Posted in Viral Video Unless they are Temp One But If you Look around The Construction Which Shows Its a not a temp site
as for people Concerned with Security they are right Why because Pakistan From Past 10 years have been on Fight With Terrorist Who in past have Attacked More Secure Sites than these Ones ( Better Safe than Sorry )

If PAF posted this Video doesn't mean if Some thing is Wrong it will Be OK

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

look who is here, Wing Commander Ronald in the first row as usual..and with a Viper badge, no thunder...








Darth Vader said:


> Because Just a hard work And this locations Can be tracked and will be easy Target for Enemy Be it Internal or External
> 
> 
> Than Its Up To PAF Because This Locations Should Be to Posted in Viral Video Unless they are Temp One But If you Look around The Construction Which Shows Its a not a temp site
> as for people Concerned with Security they are right Why because Pakistan From Past 10 years have been on Fight With Terrorist Who in past have Attacked More Secure Sites than these Ones ( Better Safe than Sorry )
> 
> If PAF posted this Video doesn't mean if Some thing is Wrong it will Be OK



Alright, let me get it straight, can you translate the last para of your post, i am having a hard time getting through it.

thanks

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Darth Vader

Dazzler said:


> look who is here, Wing Commander Ronald in the first row as usual..and with a Viper badge, no thunder...
> 
> View attachment 337672
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, let me get it straight, can you translate the last para of your post, i am having a hard time getting through it.
> 
> thanks


What i meant Was Since You Referred PAFs Video that Since they Showed this Installations in Video it means its ok Mistake Do Happen , Which Shouldn't have happened on the first place , and No one should ignore these mistakes Just because Some one missed in higher Ups Didn't bother to care about it


----------



## Dazzler

Darth Vader said:


> What i meant Was Since You Referred PAFs Video that Since they Showed this Installations in Video it means its ok Mistake Do Happen , Which Shouldn't have happened on the first place , and No one should ignore these mistakes Just because Some one missed in higher Ups Didn't bother to care about it



I fail to understand what your are complaining about. Can the enemy identify the radar or sam location through height? trees? sky etc??

unless you see coordinates on pics, none of these assets are in jeopardy. They r mobile too and can easily change locations if needed.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Areesh

Brilliant pics @Dazzler Great work

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Darth Vader

Dazzler said:


> I fail to understand what your are complaining about. Can the enemy identify the radar or sam location through height? trees? sky etc??
> 
> unless you see coordinates on pics, none of these assets are in jeopardy. They r mobile too and can easily change locations if needed.


http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/25/11112594/google-new-deep-learning-image-location-planet

Just One Example There Are so Many ways to Locate Locations , Yes They Can Change The Locations To But Why Risk it 
and i m Not Complaining Just Giving a suggestion So Mistakes Dont Happen in Future

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Rukarl said:


> Pakistan has some decent radars systems, but I fear you're lacking in the surface to air missile department. If you feel the Russian will drag their feet in selling their S series, then go for a few HQ-9!



SPADA-2000s,HQ-16,LOMADS and HQ-9 (rumoured).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

Darth Vader said:


> http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/25/11112594/google-new-deep-learning-image-location-planet
> 
> Just One Example There Are so Many ways to Locate Locations , Yes They Can Change The Locations To But Why Risk it
> and i m Not Complaining Just Giving a suggestion So Mistakes Dont Happen in Future



relax mate, pics removed, now smile

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Darth Vader

Dazzler said:


> relax mate, pics removed, now smile


Doest Matter as you said its already in the Video i was just Giving a Suggestion Which Can Help Thats all

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

Darth Vader said:


> Doest Matter as you said its already in the Video i was just Giving a Suggestion Which Can Help Thats all



you are a genius!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## saiyan0321

Well done @Dazzler as those are some amazing pics. Man those facilities look high tech. Thanks for the pics.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Darth Vader

Dazzler said:


> you are a genius!


tell me something which i don't know


----------



## Dazzler

Super Falcon said:


> Open literature sources claim VERA-E systems have been exported to Estonia, Pakistan and the United States. Newspaper reports also claimed that in January 2004 the Czech defence sales company, Omnipol, received licence to sell six systems to China. However, US government pressure on the Czech government resulted in the cancellation of this contract. Civil systems have been widely exported throughout Europe.
> 
> Within the Czech Republic, a mobile VERA-E unit is operated by the 53rd Passive Radiotechnical Reconnaissance System and Electronic Warfare Centre at Planá near České Budějovice.
> 
> Pakistan has this VERA e radar too
> View attachment 337662




The status of vera is the same as HQ-9, that is, unconfirmed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bratva

Dazzler said:


> look who is here, Wing Commander Ronald in the first row as usual..and with a Viper badge, no thunder...
> 
> View attachment 337672
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, let me get it straight, can you translate the last para of your post, i am having a hard time getting through it.
> 
> thanks



Was also wondering where Wing Commander Ronald went after his disappearance from being a CO Black spiders. Looks like he relocated back to his parent unit

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Darth Vader said:


> Was also wondering where Wing Commander Ronald went after his disappearance from being a CO Black spiders. Looks like he relocated back to his parent unit


he is promoted

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bratva

Dazzler said:


> he is promoted



Air Commodore ?

Btw. Same guy in both pics as well  First pic is from last year Sea Spark exercise. I believe he is of Squadron Leader Rank

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viper0011.

Dazzler said:


> View attachment 337647



Nice pics. AD Sector HQ South or North? I've been to the Northern air command but it was like in 2002. A lot has changed since obviously, specially with getting AWACS, TPS77, Chinese 3D radars and newer SAMs.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bratva

war&peace said:


> Yeah all the information is necessary to be made public



So? This is nothing compare to amount of information USAF provides to public. Dont be an amateur now

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Dazzler

war&peace said:


> Yeah all the information is necessary to be made public



Its already public, and trust me, it is just a fraction of what they actually have in possession.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## war&peace

Dazzler said:


> Its already public, and trust me, it is just a fraction of what they actually have in possession.





Bratva said:


> So? This is nothing compare to amount of information USAF provides to public. Dont be an amateur now


Please check again  I think there was a little bit more spice in the Biryani I had at lunch ...so it is cool now

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## YeBeWarned

Wonderful share @Dazzler , cant wait to see Pic of HQ-16 ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

@Ulla

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

X-2. said:


> Sensitively locational pictures shouldn't hv been posted
> 
> 
> Yea i agree few are sensitive -_-



The pictures are from a offical Video of the PAF (postes already by a other Member here in PDF), which was made for the public, so stay cool ! And yes your Ideas are welcome !



Saleem said:


> still doesnt seem to be any close in protection for the AWACs etc....even after the experience of loosing 3 out of four AWACs no lesson has been learnt ...the base commander needs a dressing down......



I thought the same !



Sarge said:


> @Ulla



Thank you Sir for the Tag, It was time that they made this new air defence Video, I could not see anymore the vintage one from the 1990s, are the Anza Series basiclly under the command of PAF or Army ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Stealth

Horus said:


> @Stealth fyi



yaar mujhe is facility ka visit karwaoo fir dkehoo photography aur Production asi hogi maza ajaega  wesay AWESOME pix hain

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zarvan

Pakistan needs to get PANTSIR S2 and BUK M3 from Russia and more Air Defence systems from China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Signalian

Ulla said:


> Thank you Sir for the Tag, It was time that they made this new air defence Video, I could not see anymore the vintage one from the 1990s, are the Anza Series basiclly under the command of PAF or Army ?



Army has Anza. 
PAF has own AD weapons and alert aircraft to be scrambled.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ConcealCarry

There was this famous case of USAF bombed the isis station because an isis guy posted his selfie with a few building in background. they matched the geographic features from their database of millions of earth pics and found the exact location (I am sure they used some specialized software for the purpose) 



Dazzler said:


> relax mate, pics removed, now smile



We got just one odd unit for evaluation, and when Chinese placed order for 6, that company was acquired by some US company.



Dazzler said:


> The status of vera is the same as HQ-9, that is, unconfirmed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

*New Chinese air defense system HQ-64 export name LY-60*
Read news from Defence Blog at Flipboard.com | Subscribe to the newsletter from Defence Blog
Apr 30, 2014
17693



The air defense system HQ-64
The air defense system HQ-64 ( export name LY-60) is a direct clone of the Italian Selenia (Alenia) Aspide Mk.1, itself derived from the RIM-7E Sea Sparrow.

This missile is frequently cited as the direct replacement for the conceptually similar but much bulkier HQ-61. Recent literature shows a four round LY-60 TEL which is based on the naval box launcher mount, similar to the US Sea Sparrow and original Aspide designs.

Like the Aspide / Sparrow, the LY-60 appears in naval and mobile point defence SAM configurations, and as an AAM for fighter aircraft, designated as the FD-60 or PL-10.

http://defence-blog.com/missiles/new-chinese-air-defense-system-hq-64-export-name-ly-60.html
@Dazzler

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Banglar Bir

ANY RADARS SIGNATURE CAN BE LOCATED VERY EASILY. 
SATELLITE IMAGES CAN BE ENHANCED TO GIVE THE EXACT GRID LOCATIONS ALONG WITH THE SURROUNDING AREAS ALONG WITH AD SYSTEM PROTECTING THEM, AS WELL.. 
JUST REMEMBER ANY ETHER SIGNAL CAN BE INTERCEPTED AND EXACT COORDINATES CALIBRATED.

ASK ANY SIGNAL CORPS ABOUT ECM aND ECCM YOU WILL GET YOUR ANSWER


----------



## Zarvan

*
China unveils new FM-3000 short-to-medium range air defense missile system at AirShow China.






New Chinese FM-3000 TEL (Transporter Erector Launcher) at AirShow China 2014 in Zhuhai, China.

Read details here in link given below 

http://www.armyrecognition.com/airs..._missile_system_at_airshow_china_1911142.html
*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Banglar Bir

OFFICER


----------



## Zarvan

*Description*
The Sky Dragon 12 is a short-range surface-to-air defense missile (SAM) system developed and manufactured by the Chinese Defense Company NORINCO (China North Industries Corporation). The system was unveiled for the first time during the defense exhibition in South Africa, AAD, September 2014. The Sky Dragon 12 short-range SAM system is designed for key-point and field air-defense of small-size military objects and areas against mass air threats, such as aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles, UAVs and precision-guided weapons, as well as reinforcing 35mm AA (Anti-Aircraft) gun air-defense group coverage, forming the AWS2 missile/gun integrated air defense weapon system.

Read full details on the link given below 

http://armyrecognition.com/china_ch...t_specifications_pictures_video_12001165.html


----------



## Banglar Bir

PAKISTAN IS DIRE NEED OF ADVANCED AD MISSILES SYSTEM AND ENSURE NEUTRALIZATION /PROTECTION FROM INCOMING TERRAIN HUGGING SUPER SONIC CRUISE. SPECIALLY DUE TO INDIA'S VAST AIR SUPERIORITY AND BRAHMOS NUKE CAPABLE MISSILES


----------



## Zarvan

*Description*
The Sky Dragon 50 also called GAS2 is a Medium-Range Surface-to-Air Defense missile system designed and manufactured by the Chinese Defense Company NORINCO (China North Industries Corporation). The Sky Dragon was unveiled for the first time during the AAD Defense Exhibition of South Africa in September 2014. The Sky Dragon 50 is the latest generation of air defence missile system developed by Norinco which has a maximum firing range of 50 km. According the Chinese military magazine Kanwa, the Chinese Defense Company NORINCO has exported its new medium-range surface-to-air defense missile system to Rwanda. This country is the first foreign customer for the Sky Dragon 50. Read further details on link given below 

http://armyrecognition.com/china_ch...t_specifications_pictures_video_12401163.html


----------



## Basel

Rukarl said:


> The first one is the American TPS-77:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't really see the 2nd one.
> 
> 
> The third one is the American TPS-43:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the last one seems to be the Chinese YLC-6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're



Do we have upgraded TPS-43?



Super Falcon said:


> Open literature sources claim VERA-E systems have been exported to Estonia, Pakistan and the United States. Newspaper reports also claimed that in January 2004 the Czech defence sales company, Omnipol, received licence to sell six systems to China. However, US government pressure on the Czech government resulted in the cancellation of this contract. Civil systems have been widely exported throughout Europe.
> 
> Within the Czech Republic, a mobile VERA-E unit is operated by the 53rd Passive Radiotechnical Reconnaissance System and Electronic Warfare Centre at Planá near České Budějovice.
> 
> Pakistan has this VERA e radar too
> View attachment 337662



What capabilities it offer and how many Pakistan may have?


----------



## IceCold

I fail to understand why are we not investing on SAM systems specially high altitude ones? Is it because of lack of options and Chinese systems being sub par or a lack of interest by those who matter? 
The least we can do is to buy a chinese system and start working from their on our own version. If Iran can make such systems why cant we

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ZainIndia

Keyboards in the 11th Pic look so cool


----------



## Windjammer

Seems all the images are captured from this video.

@Stealth......bullseye






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=984723471639837





@Horus @Tipu7 @Oscar @Irfan Baloch

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## vizier

Yes radar locations can be known by ecm but it doesnt mean sams are too vulnurable. Airbases can more easily be detected by only looking at satellite pictures and once runways are destroyed no plane cant lift off so airbases are more vulnurable to all types of attacks and need protection of sams.

Sams had a huge leap after sa2 hq2 cold war sams thet we generally know. It is wrong like saying dont build jets because mig21 is not effective to neglect modern sams.

Mobile sams once attacked can close the radar deploy chaff or decoys and change positions unlike vulnurable static airbases.
Mobile sams also have shorad components like pantsyr as active defense to protect themselves.
Mobile sams have a reaction time of seconds but it takes minutes or hour to scramble planes also it is more costly to always stay in air all the time.

The neglection of sams was a mistake but there are good steps like purchase of hq16 to overcome that mistake. It wont be costly to protect several vital sites.Medium range sams like buk can be produced by Pakistan locally by tech transfer also reducing costs for frontline sam system to protect borders.


----------



## X-2.

Ulla said:


> The pictures are from a offical Video of the PAF (postes already by a other Member here in PDF), which was made for the public, so stay cool ! And yes your Ideas are welcome !
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the same !
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Sir for the Tag, It was time that they made this new air defence Video, I could not see anymore the vintage one from the 1990s, are the Anza Series basiclly under the command of PAF or Army ?


Offcourse who got the second hand to post here or on any other social app but we really need to take all precautions and never underestimate our enemies man we have lost alot of defensive infrastructure(targeted terror attack) I hope u understand what I'm talking about so we need to stay low but keep working hard !!!



Ulla said:


> The pictures are from a offical Video of the PAF (postes already by a other Member here in PDF), which was made for the public, so stay cool ! And yes your Ideas are welcome !
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the same !
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Sir for the Tag, It was time that they made this new air defence Video, I could not see anymore the vintage one from the 1990s, are the Anza Series basiclly under the command of PAF or Army ?


Offcourse who got the second hand to post here or on any other social app but we really need to take all precautions and never underestimate our enemies man we have lost alot of defensive infrastructure(targeted terror attack) I hope u understand what I'm talking about so we need to stay low but keep working hard !!!


----------



## Dazzler



Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Dazzler



Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Zarvan

Dazzler said:


> View attachment 337848
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337849
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337850
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337851
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337852


Good too see we developing our Air Defence capabilities but still we need more systems. I think China alone can fill our requirements when it comes to Air Defence systems


----------



## Stealth

Windjammer said:


> Seems all the images are captured from this video.
> 
> @Stealth......bullseye
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=984723471639837
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Horus @Tipu7 @Oscar @Irfan Baloch



I am already in process of making some deadly 21st Century Pakistan Military Might showoff video promo for 2017  These clips will help me alot...

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Windjammer

View attachment 337866



Stealth said:


> I am already in process of making some deadly 21st Century Pakistan Military Might showoff video promo for 2017  These clips will help me alot...


There's clip of a PAF firing an AMRAAM from it's wingtip, can you guys grab that image.
@Stealth @HRK @Dazzler @Tipu7

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## .

https://defence.pk/threads/is-pakistan-funding-ukrainian-grom-tactical-ballistic-missile.443327/ 

What the Eck Happened to the Grom?
Can we have more Ukrainian muscle in our ranks now Pls?Nope I guess they went for Chin HQ9,Ahh watever


----------



## War Thunder

Super Falcon said:


> What type of radars we have
> 
> Few years back I heated Pak was interested in Czech Republican radars which can detect stealth jets any news on them
> 
> Do PAF has radars to detect drones



you are talking about VERA mate
they were copied in collaboration with Chinese
its one of those things we don't talk about until the need arrives

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

Windjammer said:


> Seems all the images are captured from this video.
> 
> @Stealth......bullseye
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=984723471639837
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Horus @Tipu7 @Oscar @Irfan Baloch





Windjammer said:


> View attachment 337866
> 
> 
> There's clip of a PAF firing an AMRAAM from it's wingtip, can you guys grab that image.
> @Stealth @HRK @Dazzler @Tipu7



My pleasure..

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Stealth

*If I will get a chance to take shoot of such C&C... I will do it in night Mode... thats look deadly with green/blueish dim lights and colorful C4ISR display ...

like this*
















Here in Pakistan most of the people who are making such videos having links in Armed forces.. they are technically not such professional or those who are professional in making videos are not expert or even doing R&D before making military related videos. Most of the people in Pakistan doing Landscape photography or wedding photography lol they can not expert to make video for armed forces. It is mandatory to learn at least common aspects of the field before any work.

There are plenty of stuff available on the internet of US Air force and its C4ISR (clips). Mostly cilp of C&C shoot in night mode. There is a reason for that. So I am impress with the C&C but not impress with the video work. Least grade Video production work done by PAF Media Affairs unfortunately.

Bas links hain tu video bana li hey par thori c R&D karletay tu ye video 100% aur better hosakhti hey just imagine change the day mode in night and feel the big change.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Dazzler

Stealth said:


> *If I will get a chance to take shoot of such C&C... I will do it in night Mode... thats look deadly with green/blueish dim lights and colorful C4ISR display ...
> 
> like this*
> 
> View attachment 338025
> View attachment 338026
> View attachment 338027
> View attachment 338028
> 
> 
> 
> Here in Pakistan most of the people who are making such videos having links in Armed forces.. they are technically not such professional or those who are professional in making videos are not expert or even doing R&D before making military related videos. Most of the people in Pakistan doing Landscape photography or wedding photography lol they can not expert to make video for armed forces. It is mandatory to learn at least common aspects of the field before any work.
> 
> There are plenty of stuff available on the internet of US Air force and its C4ISR (clips). Mostly cilp of C&C shoot in night mode. There is a reason for that. So I am impress with the C&C but not impress with the video work. Least grade Video production work done by PAF Media Affairs unfortunately.
> 
> Bas links hain tu video bana li hey par thori c R&D karletay tu ye video 100% aur better hosakhti hey just imagine change the day mode in night and feel the big change.




Still, it is a huge improvement when pitted against where they were 20 years ago..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Stealth

These are the Art work done by me...

Opar ke video daeklo aur ye pix ko compare karlo these are not even a video likin feel the impact of both



















Dazzler said:


> Still, it is a huge improvement when pitted against where they were 20 years ago..



Dear I'm not talking about the equipment used by PAF, I am talking about the video making work.

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Dazzler said:


> credit for images and video goes to our member
> 
> @airbus101
> 
> 
> View attachment 337624
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337625
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337626
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337627
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337628
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337629




The guys above are living legends and true men of renown. They are the ONLY men in the whole history of mankind that are part of a defence force that have managed to successfully defend their nation against an enemy that is next door to them that is at least 7x bigger than them and have the full backing of nearly all the world's most powerful nations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NomanAli89

Dazzler said:


> To all those concerned individuals who are worrying about secrecy and locations, this video can also be found on youtube.



Ah what a pure urdu .... a master piece .... hard to find speakers of such URDU now a days ... Our private media damage our pure language by mixing it with stupid tapori hindi language

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Sincerely wishing for ASELSAN KORAL and all other Turkish systems joining the party ASAP_ Insha'Allah_...

_For Zalims, long live 8/17...._

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Dazzler

Stealth said:


> These are the Art work done by me...
> 
> Opar ke video daeklo aur ye pix ko compare karlo these are not even a video likin feel the impact of both
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 338031
> View attachment 338032
> View attachment 338033
> View attachment 338034
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear I'm not talking about the equipment used by PAF, I am talking about the video making work.



i know about your skill and passion, mine is weapons and defense so just compared the two casually.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## YeBeWarned

Dazzler said:


> i know about your skill and passion, mine is weapons and defense so just compared the two casually.



Sir any Update on HQ-16 ? everyone knows they are Operational , but yet we haven't seen a single Picture in PA colors


----------



## Dazzler

Starlord said:


> Sir any Update on HQ-16 ? everyone knows they are Operational , but yet we haven't seen a single Picture in PA colors



This is the first time many of you may be seeing spada 2000 in action right? Stop worrying too much, LY-80 is a higbly capable medium range system and is proving its worth.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Super Falcon

Basel said:


> Do we have upgraded TPS-43?
> 
> 
> 
> What capabilities it offer and how many Pakistan may have?


Dear as far as my low knowledge in radars have I heated in 2004 it can detect stealth fighter jets like F 22 raptor infact Vera was first radar to do so

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Thunder Bolt

Dazzler said:


> look who is here, Wing Commander Ronald in the first row as usual..and with a Viper badge, no thunder...
> 
> View attachment 337672
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, let me get it straight, can you translate the last para of your post, i am having a hard time getting through it.
> 
> thanks


Isn't he Grp Capt ????


----------



## vizier

Vera does not detect f22 by itself but detects radio signals such as communication channels. It can locate a stealth drone broadcasting vodeo signals for remote control for example.

Vhf and long wavelength aesa radars can detect and roughly locate f22. Perfect for early warning although not enough to guide sams. especially tail section of f22 or f35 resonates with longer wavelengths making it detectable. That is why b2 bomber designed to be tailless as well as 6th gen usa designs. But still smaller aircraft will still be detected by vhf radars.

Having said that harm cant easily hit a modern sam system such as Buk even it has 50km range and harm 100km. It can close the radar when detects harm launch so passive seeker wont work. relocate somewhere else so gps wont do good. Deploy chaff or maybe towed decoy to block harms active radar if it has any.that is without being supported by active defense like pantsyr or tor.


----------



## monitor

Dazzler said:


> View attachment 337848
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337849
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337850
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337851
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337852




If i am not wrong First picture is Spada 2000 air defence system its first time I'm seeing it in Pakistani base .thanks for sharing .





A C4I system of PAF








Air Defence Alert (ADA) summary display at a center with details of aircraft assignment in different sectors of Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Stealth

Dazzler said:


> This is the first time many of you may be seeing spada 2000 in action right? Stop worrying too much, LY-80 is a higbly capable medium range system and is proving its worth.



I've seen live "Spada 2000" in action .... wait for HQ

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HSM

Please guide me to the right forum if this is not the right place to ask but does the main Indus river come go through India before entering Pakistan


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

PADS77 was implemented in our time. PAF AD branch has come leaps and bounds, and all new acquisitions are well implemented and completely networked. In future, it will be supplemented with further SAMs of self and allied forces.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ali_raza

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> PADS77 was implemented in our time. PAF AD branch has come leaps and bounds, and all new acquisitions are well implemented and completely networked. In future, it will be supplemented with further SAMs of self and allied forces.


sir does paf give attention to detailing.i m very impressed by @Stealth ideas. atleast it can give a very vibrant touch to our capabilities. whats ur take?!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## YeBeWarned

Dazzler said:


> This is the first time many of you may be seeing spada 2000 in action right? Stop worrying too much, LY-80 is a higbly capable medium range system and is proving its worth.



Spada-2000 comes to light after Abotabad Operation when Gen. Kiyani deploy it on our eastern Border .. so we have seen pics on that , but yeah i agree in such details its first Time  
I am Pretty Patient and hope that HQ-16 are serving us well 

This is just beginning of this Project , once the Gwadar becomes 100% operational we can just imagine how much investment it will attract .. China can/will turn the tide in Pakistan's favor in S.A


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

ali_raza said:


> sir does paf give attention to detailing.i m very impressed by @Stealth ideas. atleast it can give a very vibrant touch to our capabilities. whats ur take?!



Pakistani Air Defense Controllers are well trained. It is the only ground branch that is considered executive, and fights hand in glove with the pilot. With the implementation of the tactical data link, the pilot gets an insight into the composite picture, and not just the trust he always had with his controller. However, the conops are also changing drastically. You have controllers that now fly onboard the AEW&C aircraft. The air defense of the country is in good hands.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## YeBeWarned

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Pakistani Air Defense Controllers are well trained. It is the only ground branch that is considered executive, and fights hand in glove with the pilot. With the implementation of the tactical data link, the pilot gets an insight into the composite picture, and not just the trust he always had with his controller. However, the conops are also changing drastically. You have controllers that now fly onboard the AEW&C aircraft. The air defense of the country is in good hands.



Our innocent Neighbors think we don't have potent Air Defense .. and they call roll into Pakistan hit a Target and went back anytime they want

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Starlord said:


> Our innocent Neighbors think we don't have potent Air Defense .. and they call roll into Pakistan hit a Target and went back anytime they want



For ones that would roll into Pakistan to attack us will not give threats on twitter and media.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## YeBeWarned

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> For ones that would roll into Pakistan to attack us will not give threats on twitter and media.



make sense , i wonder why all this blabbering over WAR ? as they lost the element of Surprise which play a crucial role in any Air force for Surgical Strikes ..


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Starlord said:


> make sense , i wonder why all this blabbering over WAR ? as they lost the element of Surprise which play a crucial role in any Air force for Surgical Strikes ..



Only to divert attention from the colossal intelligence failure, and to hide the atrocities and human rights violations in Indian administered Kashmir territory.

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## YeBeWarned

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Only to divert attention from the colossal intelligence failure, and to hide the atrocities and human rights violations in Indian administered Kashmir territory.


----------



## SQ8

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> For ones that would roll into Pakistan to attack us will not give threats on twitter and media.


They already did, by using subterfuge, a bit of jamming and the well placed moles in AHQ and many in our government.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khanate

Dazzler said:


> To all those concerned individuals who are worrying about secrecy and locations, this video can also be found on youtube.




At 7:48, Windows XP spotted.

FFS, start using Linux already. Its 2016.


----------



## SQ8

Folks worring about security; the Indians had these images before any of you ever saw them. They compile a daily dossier on us and we on them. They are generally good on both sides since paisa bolta hai. The best dossier however, goes to the US, which can with a particular aircraft isolate individual bit streams on any electronics in open air and without shielding.. from around 50 miles out. 

Try keeping secrets from them.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## IceCold

Windjammer said:


> Seems all the images are captured from this video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=984723471639837



Two quick questions Jammer if you can answer
1) why is JF-17 not included in the AD video, i know there is a small clip within it about pakistani manufacturing a state of the art plane but the way F-16s are being shown scrambling and firing, why no JF-17?
2) That missile which was fired from the F-16, that was Amraam what was the other twin engine jet part that was shown in the video? Mig29?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Asifkamal

Mastan khan. You are 100 percent right.Every PAF chief knew our weaknesses and forthcoming shortages after 1990. If you remember one of PAF chief,s interview ( I think by 1998) it was one of the most disappointing interviews by any general ever and he highlighted all weakness and indian coming programme s. 32 F16 vs 232 high performance aircraft was the scenario and india was testing SU30 for induction. Compititor was mirage 2000. 
So by chance when we had opportunity to purchase F16 , whatever amount we could afford, in 2006, we diverted our funds to earthquake relief and they were eaten by poloticians and bureaucracy.....From 75 F16 order came down to 55, then 36 newplus 28 old ones and finally to 18 plus 14 used ones.....
IF we have a wonderful economy and the whole world is to sell best equipment every time....
Musharraf cancelled F16 order as he was in favour of j10. But where j10 went off and then new order of F16 came after 10 years( 8 aircrafts) ..and again cancelled.
Who can be sure that Fc31 will be a wonderfull aircraft of its class and time??? Lets see . Many of chinease projects are strugg stll. 
Motorways touchdown for a day in news is exciting, but regularly showing it on news triggers same questions in our minds

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MastanKhan

Asifkamal said:


> Mastan khan. You are 100 percent right.Every PAF chief knew our weaknesses and forthcoming shortages after 1990. If you remember one of PAF chief,s interview ( I think by 1998) it was one of the most disappointing interviews by any general ever and he highlighted all weakness and indian coming programme s. 32 F16 vs 232 high performance aircraft was the scenario and india was testing SU30 for induction. Compititor was mirage 2000.
> So by chance when we had opportunity to purchase F16 , whatever amount we could afford, in 2006, we diverted our funds to earthquake relief and they were eaten by poloticians and bureaucracy.....From 75 F16 order came down to 55, then 36 newplus 28 old ones and finally to 18 plus 14 used ones.....
> IF we have a wonderful economy and the whole world is to sell best equipment every time....
> Musharraf cancelled F16 order as he was in favour of j10. But where j10 went off and then new order of F16 came after 10 years( 8 aircrafts) ..and again cancelled.
> Who can be sure that Fc31 will be a wonderfull aircraft of its class and time??? Lets see . Many of chinease projects are strugg stll.
> Motorways touchdown for a day in news is exciting, but regularly showing it on news triggers same questions in our minds



Hi,

Thank you very much for your post---.

We have been sabotaged by our very own---the men in blue have been the traitors---sold out the nation---.

Mushy wanted to cancel the JF17 in favor of the J10's---.

It was after the sabotage by the Paf generals---when Mushy realized that there was nothing else left---he went and asked the chinese for the J10's.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## volatile

Asifkamal said:


> Mastan khan. You are 100 percent right.Every PAF chief knew our weaknesses and forthcoming shortages after 1990. If you remember one of PAF chief,s interview ( I think by 1998) it was one of the most disappointing interviews by any general ever and he highlighted all weakness and indian coming programme s. 32 F16 vs 232 high performance aircraft was the scenario and india was testing SU30 for induction. Compititor was mirage 2000.
> So by chance when we had opportunity to purchase F16 , whatever amount we could afford, in 2006, we diverted our funds to earthquake relief and they were eaten by poloticians and bureaucracy.....From 75 F16 order came down to 55, then 36 newplus 28 old ones and finally to 18 plus 14 used ones.....
> IF we have a wonderful economy and the whole world is to sell best equipment every time....
> Musharraf cancelled F16 order as he was in favour of j10. But where j10 went off and then new order of F16 came after 10 years( 8 aircrafts) ..and again cancelled.
> Who can be sure that Fc31 will be a wonderfull aircraft of its class and time??? Lets see . Many of chinease projects are strugg stll.
> Motorways touchdown for a day in news is exciting, but regularly showing it on news triggers same questions in our minds





MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you very much for your post---.
> 
> We have been sabotaged by our very own---the men in blue have been the traitors---sold out the nation---.
> 
> Mushy wanted to cancel the JF17 in favor of the J10's---.
> 
> It was after the sabotage by the Paf generals---when Mushy realized that there was nothing else left---he went and asked the chinese for the J10's.


Just to add up during this time PAF did evaluated Rafale /J10/Gripen and at that moment US think tanks started to bring forward reports of Pak slipping away from US arms and foreign policy as F16`s are tool of strategic policies and enable US leverage over Pakistan .

US played quite nicely cancelling J10 for PAF and pushing JF17 ten years backward .I will not rather comment on F16 numbers and cancellation of remaining 18 but i do wonder at the end of the day who is the real winner or still we have learn some thing !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Asifkamal

First of all I,m thankful to Masthan Khan conforming that our great air force has chooses jf17 over j10. Before it's induction in our air force, someone had told me that jf17 will be our mainstay fighter, not j10 ??? And I was surprised at that time.... There is no comparison between the two. And after 10 years since it's first flight, we are still searching for electronics, avionics , radar for it...
Jf17 is in class of Korea,a Golden eagle. 
PAF book of 1988_98 itself says that order for 32 Mirage 2000 was cancelled due to the fact that PAF needed 715 million dollars extra for repairs, upgrades, SAM,s etc. So order for such brilliant aircraft did not materialize. All is that we are wasting our time. Our air force is at least 20 years behind others and now they have to get aircraft of 4.5 and 4 th generation at once which is not possible. 
Our 3 pilots martyred in one month

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CHINA83NEWS

People in India will be scared?Pakistan's military achievement of all indians are said to be China's shadow.


----------



## Viper27

Question is what tangible steps has the PAF taken to ensure coverage of major gaps in our airspace post the Bin Laden raid? If I could put it another way...Will the PAF be able to detect and intercept stealthy aircraft if they were to penetrate our airspace from the same area today?


----------



## AUz

Oscar said:


> They already did, by using subterfuge, a bit of jamming and the well placed moles in AHQ and many in our government.



What are you referencing to here? Indian air strike on Pakistan in 2016? Details please. Pm if you want


----------



## Basel

This system could be good solution for PA, PN & PAF needs.






@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @gambit @penguine your opinion please.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## messiach

AUz said:


> What are you referencing to here? Indian air strike on Pakistan in 2016? Details please. Pm if you want


@Oscar

Be precise, 'well placed moles'? What has been done against them?


Oscar said:


> They already did, by using subterfuge, a bit of jamming and the well placed moles in AHQ and many in our government.


----------



## Readerdefence

Only n


Basel said:


> This system could be good solution for PA, PN & PAF needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @gambit @penguine your opinion please.


Only need two people to assemble in ten minutes that's really quick & easy 
And airlifted by c130 great if we can get some specially for PN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## messiach

They all look good from outside. Quick and easy fix but unreliable.


Readerdefence said:


> Only n
> 
> Only need two people to assemble in ten minutes that's really quick & easy
> And airlifted by c130 great if we can get some specially for PN

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

messiach said:


> @Oscar



The person you're quoting is retired now...Don't know whether he'll answer you or not...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/official-retirement-notice.491880/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Basel

Readerdefence said:


> Only n
> 
> Only need two people to assemble in ten minutes that's really quick & easy
> And airlifted by c130 great if we can get some specially for PN



Also variety of role it can perform that is also very good.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

messiach said:


> @Oscar
> 
> Be precise, 'well placed moles'? What has been done against them?


The Intelligence services takes action in some cases. Those who are caught or revealed caught that is. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dawn.com/news/amp/1181530
I am aware of only one case of early retirement for someone involved , much like NAB cases the prices being extracted via interrogation, financially or otherwise through virtual arrest.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khanasifm

what is the price range? I am sure they will be charging heavily as you are getting more ,secondly what is good CRAM capability means for Air force operations vs Army vs Navy ??


----------



## khanasifm

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...nti-stealth-radar-comes-to-fruition/19409643/

According to a Nov. 10 China-based article in the Global Times, a Shandong Province-based JY-26 recently monitored an F-22 flying to South Korea. Separated by the Yellow Sea, Shandong’s coastline is 400 kilometers from Kunsan Air Base and Osan Air Base, South Korea.

*Who would be in the market for the JY-26? For one, Pakistan has to contend with India’s stealth fighter program with Russia, and Iran must deal with Israel’s planned procurement of the F-35 fighter. *

Then there is the continuing threat many nations face from US B-2 bombers, F-22 fighters and eventually the F-35. ■

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Safriz

Look at 5:45 onwards.
The SAM is moving up and down as the guy is moving his binoculars. Is this a visually aimed system?


----------



## MastanKhan

شاھین میزایل said:


> Look at 5:45 onwards.
> The SAM is moving up and down as the guy is moving his binoculars. Is this a visually aimed system?



Hi,

Seems like it does.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Thorough Pro

It's the same principal (for understanding purpose) as an HMCS, only that helmet is replaced by bino's to provide initial direction of the target and to train the missiles sensors in right direction.



شاھین میزایل said:


> Look at 5:45 onwards.
> The SAM is moving up and down as the guy is moving his binoculars. Is this a visually aimed system?


----------



## Safriz

Thorough Pro said:


> It's the same principal (for understanding purpose) as an HMCS, only that helmet is replaced by bino's to provide initial direction of the target and to train the missiles sensors in right direction.


Yes , but what SAM is this?
Such an arrangement will save lots of time and resources. I am unaware of a similar arrangement elsewhere.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Thorough Pro

Looks like French Crotale to me, or maybe some older Chinese system



شاھین میزایل said:


> Yes , but what SAM is this?
> Such an arrangement will save lots of time and resources. I am unaware of a similar arrangement elsewhere.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## F86 Saber

May be this question has been answered already but frequent are hot scrambles?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

Thorough Pro said:


> Looks like French Crotale to me, or maybe some older Chinese system



Its the upgraded french Crotale !

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## HRK

شاھین میزایل said:


> Yes , but what SAM is this?
> Such an arrangement will save lots of time and resources. I am unaware of a similar arrangement elsewhere.


If I am not wrong French Crotale SAM

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## khanasifm

http://www.military-today.com/missiles/crotale.htm
*
It also has an optical aiming system.

Paf now operates a few of latest version per history 

Crotale 4000 Series. Cable interconnections between units were replace by radio datalink. The TELARS can be located at a range of up to 3 km from acquisition and coordination unit. And up to 10 km between proximate ACU. Radar has improved electronic countermeasures;

Crotale 5000 Series. It is a modernization of the French Crotale systems. It appeared in 1985. This system incorporates an optical tracker. It also has improved radar that has detection range of 18 km;*

By the way paf had bought Libyan crotale Missile batteries as well part of mirages in 2003/4 and 2007

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Thorough Pro

When you post such pics, you realize your are jeopardizing their safety? Ever heard about terrain matching?



Dazzler said:


> View attachment 337634
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337635


----------



## Inception-06

Thorough Pro said:


> When you post such pics, you realize your are jeopardizing their safety? Ever heard about terrain matching?



come down, this are screenshots from a Video which every tom and dick can see on youtube !


----------



## Dazzler

Thorough Pro said:


> When you post such pics, you realize your are jeopardizing their safety? Ever heard about terrain matching?



For once, use your brain to read the thread closely, it'll save you from getting embarrassed . The damn video is available on YouTube and can be downloaded too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Thorough Pro

Wow, how arrogant



Dazzler said:


> For once, use your brain to read the thread closely, it'll save you from getting embarrassed . The damn video is available on YouTube and can be downloaded too.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

Thorough Pro said:


> Wow, how arrogant



Never mind.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRK

which radar is this ....?? plz identify

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

HRK said:


> which radar is this ....?? plz identify
> View attachment 419643


Probably the RAC-3D (with the Spada 2000-Plus).

Just a side point. Good reference for seeing the cost (upfront and support) of the Saab Sea Giraffe (i.e. $12.5 m per radar). This is a fire control radar, so it'll be interesting to see how much more the Giraffe 4A air surveillance radar would cost. 

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/philippines-ansps-77-sea-giraffe-3d-air-search-radars

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## LeGenD

Ulla said:


> come down, this are screenshots from a Video which every tom and dick can see on youtube !


Bro,

We live in the era of satellites and airborne surveillance systems. You think that posting a few pics on the web will change the situation on the ground? No.

Even if positions are known and/or discovered, nobody is coming after them because such installations are expected to be heavily guarded and our soldiers will offer resistance. _Resistance_ is the key deterrent....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## denel

HRK said:


> If I am not wrong French Crotale SAM
> View attachment 396479
> View attachment 396479


yes that is cortale; we made an upgraded system from it called cactus.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khanasifm

denel said:


> yes that is cortale; we made an upgraded system from it called cactus.




South African modification of crotale Sam is called cactus actually sa was the original requester for crotale and its called cactus in SA

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/122_Squadron_SAAF 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/122_Squadron_SAAF



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/120_Squadron_SAAF

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

khanasifm said:


> South African modification of crotale Sam is called cactus actually sa was the original requester for crotale and its called cactus in SA
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/122_Squadron_SAAF
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/122_Squadron_SAAF
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/120_Squadron_SAAF



Looks like crotale are now all gone as no mention of it in latest Allen Warren book on paf with a chapter on radars and sams only mentioned spada, mistrals and Anza

Check 6/7 September display to confirm is crotale is still with paf or may be just a few batteries of 4000 version in reserve ??

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cornered Tiger

Max Alt is wrong here, It's in m actually

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Inception-06

LeGenD said:


> Bro,
> 
> We live in the era of satellites and airborne surveillance systems. You think that posting a few pics on the web will change the situation on the ground? No.
> 
> Even if positions are known and/or discovered, nobody is coming after them because such installations are expected to be heavily guarded and our soldiers will offer resistance. _Resistance_ is the key deterrent....



I had written nothing else, read the whole topic, please !



Cornered Tiger said:


> Max Alt is wrong here, It's in Km actually




@Signalian check that, its the third time that I see a Pakistani SA-2 picture, it seems that some units are still in service!

Here is the first one that I saw!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Signalian

Ulla said:


> I had written nothing else, read the whole topic, please !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian check that, its the third time that I see a Pakistani SA-2 picture, it seems that some units are still in service!
> 
> Here is the first one that I saw!
> 
> View attachment 426141
> View attachment 426143



HQ-2B with PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AMG_12

There's an active site on the outskirts of Islamabad. Another active site is near Karachi. 


Ulla said:


> I had written nothing else, read the whole topic, please !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian check that, its the third time that I see a Pakistani SA-2 picture, it seems that some units are still in service!
> 
> Here is the first one that I saw!
> 
> View attachment 426141
> View attachment 426143

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Crotale should be enhanced with a new radar integration or locally made enhancements to Software with licence from France

Put it on the western frontier

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1

sa 2 launcher

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Gryphon

Signalian said:


> HQ-2B with PAF



As per publicly available information, HQ-2B site near Islamabad is active. Some sources report the site near Karachi has been disbanded. 

PAF has no replacements in the pipeline. Few years ago, the PAF Chief was talking about evaluation of four different Chinese SAM's. I guess those plans were put on hold just like purchase of new aircraft.

Spada 2000+ for base defence. HQ-2B and Crotale 4000 being phased out. Thats all about PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> As per publicly available information, HQ-2B site near Islamabad is active. Some sources report the site near Karachi has been disbanded.
> 
> PAF has no replacements in the pipeline. Few years ago, the PAF Chief was talking about evaluation of four different Chinese SAM's. I guess those plans were put on hold just like purchase of new aircraft.
> 
> Spada 2000+ for base defence. HQ-2B and Crotale 4000 being phased out. Thats all about PAF.



Per paf history 1999-2013 sa-2 were retired long time ago date in the book even crotale system Allen warren new book chapter on radars and sams did not mention it. Did anyone noticed it being displayed at paf day this year at one the bases?

Allen book mention spada, mistral and Anza sams only 

I think may be crotale 4000 batteries maybe in war reserves ?? Guessing

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> As per publicly available information, HQ-2B site near Islamabad is active. Some sources report the site near Karachi has been disbanded.
> 
> PAF has no replacements in the pipeline. Few years ago, the PAF Chief was talking about evaluation of four different Chinese SAM's. I guess those plans were put on hold just like purchase of new aircraft.
> 
> Spada 2000+ for base defence. HQ-2B and Crotale 4000 being phased out. Thats all about PAF.


I Beg to differ,Crotales are here currently operational/standby with 5 squadrons.
Talks/work being done to upgrade those crotale batteries by Thales.
Question Might arise why Crotales are still operational? Because they are filling gaps which Spada Cant fullfill,I wont go into further Details.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
3


----------



## Gryphon

khanasifm said:


> Per paf history 1999-2013 sa-2 were retired long time ago date in the book even crotale system Allen warren new book chapter on radars and sams did not mention it. Did anyone noticed it being displayed at paf day this year at one the bases?
> 
> Allen book mention spada, mistral and Anza sams only
> 
> I think may be crotale 4000 batteries maybe in war reserves ?? Guessing



Do you have a copy of PAF history 1999-2013 ? Or pdf.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

khanasifm said:


> Per paf history 1999-2013 sa-2 were retired long time ago date in the book even crotale system Allen warren new book chapter on radars and sams did not mention it. Did anyone noticed it being displayed at paf day this year at one the bases?
> 
> Allen book mention spada, mistral and Anza sams only
> 
> I think may be crotale 4000 batteries maybe in war reserves ?? Guessing


Actually These are old systems like MPDR45 and TPS 43G so that's why maybe they r not mentioned.
Like wise I said Crotales are here and will stay here for atleast a decade.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> I Beg to differ,Crotales are here currently operational/standby with 5 squadrons.
> Talks/work being done to upgrade those crotale batteries by Thales.
> Question Might arise why Crotales are still operational? Because they are filling gaps which Spada Cant fullfill,I wont go into further Details.



Crotale's in PAF service were upgraded to Crotale 4000 standard years ago. I have not heard about those being further upgraded.

On page 1 of this thread, you can see Crotale's on display at a training facility. It appears (to me) that those are retired.

Corrections will be appreciated.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Crotale's in PAF service were upgraded to Crotale 4000 standard years ago. I have not heard about those being further upgraded.
> 
> On page 1 of this thread, you can see Crotale's on display at a training facility. It appears (to me) that those are retired.
> 
> Corrections will be appreciated.


Well when did I said they are being upgraded to 4000 standard?
2011 12 discussions were being held regarding upgrading them through Thales , We even got quotations For that upgrades But somehow it was a lil bit high then our budget So we decided to renegotiate with them.
Those crotales standing Infront of ADTS are dummies and these types of dummies were brought during 80's and 90's to manipulate our enemies. I can give u example ,The biggest Sam sqn of Pakistan from 1981 to 2009 had dummies alog with orignal battries with them at every site so that In case of attack instead of Orignal ones they can be shot down.During PAF's SAM trails at soumiani rage upgraded crotales performed at par with Spada 2000 .
Edit=Crotale 4000 and libyan configuration ones

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> Well when did I said they are being upgraded to 4000 standard?
> 2011 12 discussions were being held regarding upgrading them through Thales , We even got quotations For that upgrades But somehow it was a lil bit high then our budget So we decided to renegotiate with them.
> Those crotales standing Infront of ADSS are dummies and these types of dummies were brought during 80's and 90's to manipulate our enemies. I can give u example ,The biggest Sam sqn of Pakistan from 1981 to 2009 had dummies alog with orignal battries with them at every site so that In case of attack instead of Orignal ones they can be shot down.During PAF's SAM trails at soumiani rage upgraded crotales performed at par with Spada 2000 .



Crotale's were upgraded to Crotale 4000 years ago as per news reports which quoted senior PAF officials.

I understand that you mean to say negotiations were held with Thales in 2011-12 and price was hindering upgrades.

What happened later? Were Crotale's upgraded further?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Crotale's in PAF service were upgraded to Crotale 4000 standard years ago. I have not heard about those being further upgraded.
> 
> On page 1 of this thread, you can see Crotale's on display at a training facility. It appears (to me) that those are retired.
> 
> Corrections will be appreciated.




But in the Video you can see them operational, so the Member @tps77 is correct !

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Gryphon

Ulla said:


> But in the Video you can see them operational !



Yes, few pics are also posted in this thread

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Inception-06

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Yes, few pics are also posted in this thread



Coming back to the bottom line, like Wajahat Saeed Khan always saying: I think that only the best, economical and operational capable units of the HQ-2B and Crotale were selected for the future service, while rest landed in the museum or in the spare parts stockpile. So all Members are right, some systems are retired as the pictures of the museums have shown and the best will remain because they fill some gaps and are so old that they are not so easy to be jammed (HQ-2B for example).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Crotale's were upgraded to Crotale 4000 years ago as per news reports which quoted senior PAF officials.
> 
> I understand that you mean to say negotiations were held with Thales in 2011-12 and price was hindering upgrades.
> 
> What happened later? Were Crotale's upgraded further?


We gave it a break because our Spada weren't getting A cat operational. Till 2016 case was being reconsidered again and was set as 2nd priority ,1st one is to replace those MPDR's after them comes Crotales.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Inception-06

tps77 said:


> We gave it a break because our Spada weren't getting A cat operational. Till 2016 case was being reconsidered again and was set as 2nd priority ,1st one is to replace those MPDR's after them comes Crotales.




Could please sheet more light in the SPADA case ?and what are the MPDRs ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

Ulla said:


> Coming back to the bottom line, like Wajahat Saeed Khan always saying: I think that only the best, economical and operational capable units of the HQ-2B and Crotale were selected for the future service, while rest landed in the museum or in the spare parts stockpile. So all Members are right, some systems are retired as the pictures of the museums have shown and the best will remain because they fill some gaps and are so old that they are not so easy to be jammed (HQ-2B for example).


Yes True Most Of Hq 2b are retired.
There are 11 SAM sqn In Paf several of them also having diff flights in diff cities out of them 5 are cortales and 6 remaining are spada all these sqn's are also equipped with MANPADS (MISTRAL) 1 crotale/spada battery = 4 mistral batteries with not more 5 min to 3 hours standby time for all the systems and many of them are performing round the clock duties. Many of MOU sqn's were converted into SAM ones.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Do you have a copy of PAF history 1999-2013 ? Or pdf.



Actual book there is no pdf it's too Much work to scan it


----------



## Tps43

Ulla said:


> Could please sheet more light in the SPADE case ?and what are the MPDRs ?


Regarding Spada there was connectivity issue between the battery itself basically linkage between AD and technical setup of equipment for minimum 3 years since we got them , Italians were also confused regarding this problem so Paf officers and tech went through many courses in Italy and Italians worked in Pakistan to fully operationalize the system anyhow It was resolved to some extant in 2015 that is the reason crotales are being kept in loop because they have no issues regarding operations.
MPDR's are low level radars connected with our mission control centers/wings,We got them in 1970,s and 80,s they are german made from Siemens extremely reliable but have crossed there age quite while ago we have planned to replace them with new systems options were american,german,chinese . Trails of Chinese were held and were rejected , Paf is more inclined towards germans but Americans and chinese both are still pressing for there own systems.
Actually Paf has got worst experience with chinese one's due to YLC 2 episode and TPS 77 literally gave them eyes but they dont want american sys due to fear of sanctions and also some other technical issues . CAS announced to replace MPDR's during his tenure lets see what happens in the end.

Reactions: Like Like:
 6


----------



## khanasifm

tps77 said:


> Regarding Spada there was connectivity issue between the battery itself basically linkage between AD and technical setup of equipment for minimum 3 years since we got them , Italians were also confused regarding this problem so Paf officers and tech went through many courses in Italy and Italians worked in Pakistan to fully operationalize the system anyhow It was resolved to some extant in 2015 that is the reason crotales are being kept in loop because they have no issues regarding operations.
> MPDR's are low level radars connected with our mission control centers/wings,We got them in 1970,s and 80,s they are german made from Siemens extremely reliable but have crossed there age quite while ago we have planned to replace them with new systems options were american,german,chinese . Trails of Chinese were held and were rejected , Paf is more inclined towards germans but Americans and chinese both are still pressing for there own systems.
> Actually Paf has got worst experience with chinese one's due to YLC 2 episode and TPS 77 literally gave them eyes but they dont want american sys due to fear of sanctions and also some other technical issues . CAS announced to replace MPDR's during his tenure lets see what happens in the end.



Paf history 1999-2013 talks about ylc 2 it was identified as one of the radar along with fps117 (paf then like newer tps77 version of it) for induction based on study for paf for 2000 and beyond 

Ylc-2 was inducted during crises with India in early 2000 a single radar was used for 2/3 years and then paf was satisfied and order more Chinese vendor also worked with paf to integrate it in of c4isr/radar network it was prt of the deal when paf ordered it formally 

Not sure what issues with ylc2 are you referring to in fact it was delivered due Indian crises in 2 days from request to delivery and made operational at a site in another few days ( the first one )


mpdr are German so repeat customers ?? Commonality and existing infrastructure plus rebuilt facility at PAC

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tps43

khanasifm said:


> Paf history 1999-2013 talks about ylc 2 it was identified as one of the radar along with fps117 (paf then like newer tps77 version of it) for induction based on study for paf for 2000 and beyond
> 
> Ylc-2 was inducted during crises with India in early 2000 a single radar was used for 2/3 years and then paf was satisfied and order more Chinese vendor also worked with paf to integrate it in of c4isr/radar network it was prt of the deal when paf ordered it formally
> 
> Not sure what issues with ylc2 are you referring to in fact it was delivered due Indian crises in 2 days from request to delivery and made operational at a site in another few days ( the first one )


You cant ask from any Serving PAF AD officer about YLC 2.
During standoff TPS 43G took all work load but to Check YLC 2 capabilities by locating it at a famous location and it performed below average there and it was being discussed at the time that this YLC 2 is probably a proto type.
In one case our chinese friends I respect them fully but they tried to bribe our senior official to approve the chinese low level radars who altogether were disappointment. Coming back to YLC 2 they replaced the famous FPS-20 ones and as of current only 2 YLC 2 sqn who were extensively modified are working independently all other sqn's are operationally under GMCC's due to being unreliable.
I dont want to get bashed but there something with ZDK also.
Chinese brothers are improving but still there's longway so thats why we r not investing too much in there C4ISR



khanasifm said:


> Paf history 1999-2013 talks about ylc 2 it was identified as one of the radar along with fps117 (paf then like newer tps77 version of it) for induction based on study for paf for 2000 and beyond
> 
> Ylc-2 was inducted during crises with India in early 2000 a single radar was used for 2/3 years and then paf was satisfied and order more Chinese vendor also worked with paf to integrate it in of c4isr/radar network it was prt of the deal when paf ordered it formally
> 
> Not sure what issues with ylc2 are you referring to in fact it was delivered due Indian crises in 2 days from request to delivery and made operational at a site in another few days ( the first one )
> 
> 
> mpdr are German so repeat customers ?? Commonality and existing infrastructure plus rebuilt facility at PAC


BTW paf was not completely satisfied but they had to place orders due to some confidential reasons.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## khanasifm

tps77 said:


> You cant ask from any Serving PAF AD officer about YLC 2.
> During standoff TPS 43G took all work load but to Check YLC 2 capabilities by locating it at a famous location and it performed below average there and it was being discussed at the time that this YLC 2 is probably a proto type.
> In one case our chinese friends I respect them fully but they tried to bribe our senior official to approve the chinese low level radars who altogether were disappointment. Coming back to YLC 2 they replaced the famous FPS-20 ones and as of current only 2 YLC 2 sqn who were extensively modified are working independently all other sqn's are operationally under GMCC's due to being unreliable.
> I dont want to get bashed but there something with ZDK also.
> Chinese brothers are improving but still there's longway so thats why we r not investing too much in there C4ISR
> 
> 
> BTW paf was not completely satisfied but they had to place orders due to some confidential reasons.



All xxxx sqn or 4001,4002... have tps77 and all xxx 401,402.... have tpg43 or ylc-2 radars per history i do not put anything on forum if it's not in official paf open source report, book etc

He said, she said ..... who knows ... move on 

Paf also has ylc-6 equivalent of mpdr as well as ylc-2, total number bought look up paf history

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

khanasifm said:


> All xxxx sqn or 4001,4002... have tps77 and all xxx 401,402.... have tpg43 or ylc-2 radars per history i do not put anything on forum if it's not in official paf open source report, book etc
> 
> He said, she said ..... who knows ... move on
> 
> Paf also has ylc-6 equivalent of mpdr as well as ylc-2, total number bought look up paf history


well I didnt claim that I was told by someone , I worked with them for a short period thats why I know it other then that yes we should move on thats why I was talking about future procurement of LLR's and was giving reference to history.
Yes All xxxx sqn 4091,4092.... have tps77 and all xxx 401...406....41X have tps43g and YLC2 and YLC 6
I have rough idea regarding numbers , I know all sqn's names loc's and status so total numbers for me dont really matter much.
If at any point I am wrong u can double check me or can correct me out but as far as all my posts goes I am pretty sure about them.
YLC 6 are not in much quantity btw but they worked much much better than those YLC 2

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Basel

Ulla said:


> I had written nothing else, read the whole topic, please !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian check that, its the third time that I see a Pakistani SA-2 picture, it seems that some units are still in service!
> 
> Here is the first one that I saw!
> 
> View attachment 426141
> View attachment 426143



It's possible that few upgraded SA-2s might be in service


tps77 said:


> well I didnt claim that I was told by someone , I worked with them for a short period thats why I know it other then that yes we should move on thats why I was talking about future procurement of LLR's and was giving reference to history.
> Yes All xxxx sqn 4091,4092.... have tps77 and all xxx 401...406....41X have tps43g and YLC2 and YLC 6
> I have rough idea regarding numbers , I know all sqn's names loc's and status so total numbers for me dont really matter much.
> If at any point I am wrong u can double check me or can correct me out but as far as all my posts goes I am pretty sure about them.
> YLC 6 are not in much quantity btw but they worked much much better than those YLC 2



Will PAF look into new Giraffe AESA radar series??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Basel said:


> It's possible that few upgraded SA-2s might be in service
> 
> 
> Will PAF look into new Giraffe AESA radar series??


maybe who knows but Siemens have got more chances.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm

paf ordered Saab vs zdk it tells you something Saab is far better not to say zdk has issues but may be Saab brings capability that out shines zdk or paf has more money to spend  and who knows ... just guessing here

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BATMAN

tps77 said:


> maybe who knows but Siemens have got more chances.


SIEMENS is also a corrupt company. They have history of bribing in civil tenders.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Considering we have demonstrative models of high altitude defensive missiles suprising we have not gone ahead to make a Local Pakistani version , considering all the knowledge we have in Radar and Tracking technology






A fairly large system but one that Pakistan should have at least attempted to reverse engineer

Same missile with modern sensors / chip and software system would have made the missile more adaptable to modern times

Suprised that this option was never entertained

We have a fully functional Missile sitting in Museum and we can literally make the whole modal upto 2017 standards in Pakistan , the remaing portion is just enhancement in it's radar system and tracking systems


Beautiful Missile just need some love and care and upgrade for 2017

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cornered Tiger

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Crotale 4000





tps77 said:


> I Beg to differ,Crotales are here currently operational/standby with 5 squadrons.
> Talks/work being done to upgrade those crotale batteries by Thales.
> Question Might arise why Crotales are still operational? Because they are filling gaps which Spada Cant fullfill,I wont go into further Details.



some units upgraded to Cortale 5000 standards

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tps43

BATMAN said:


> SIEMENS is also a corrupt company. They have history of bribing in civil tenders.


They can be but paf has got good experience while working on there's system.
Thats why Paf is seriously considering them.



khanasifm said:


> paf ordered Saab vs zdk it tells you something Saab is far better not to say zdk has issues but may be Saab brings capability that out shines zdk or paf has more money to spend  and who knows ... just guessing here


 keep guessing

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> We gave it a break because our Spada weren't getting A cat operational. Till 2016 case was being reconsidered again and was set as 2nd priority ,1st one is to replace those MPDR's after them comes Crotales.



Folks at PAF can't arrange money for upgrading the Crotale's and here we believe they are going to invest in 5th gen fighter aircraft research.



tps77 said:


> CAS announced to replace MPDR's during his tenure lets see what happens in the end.



Sounds good. When was the announcement made ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Folks at PAF can't arrange money for upgrading the Crotale's and here we believe they are going to invest in 5th gen fighter aircraft research.


Money may be the problem but Regarding crotales AD priorities were set so that's why crotales are being neglected for time being , Paf AD is always low on budget as compared to Flying branch so the whole branches of Paf are just surviving for time being steps had been taken to improve these conditions esp during current cas tenure so let's we what comes up .



TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Folks at PAF can't arrange money for upgrading the Crotale's and here we believe they are going to invest in 5th gen fighter aircraft research.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds good. When was the announcement made ?


In 2015 on becoming CAS because we was dcas ops so he knew current condition of operations btw he picked up operations game from 6 o clock to 12 o clock
Edit = he was

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> Money may be the problem but Regarding crotales AD priorities were set so that's why crotales are being neglected for time being , Paf AD is always low on budget as compared to Flying branch so the whole branches of Paf are just surviving for time being steps had been taken to improve these conditions esp during current cas tenure so let's we what comes up .
> 
> 
> In 2015 on becoming CAS because we was dcas ops so he knew current condition of operations btw he picked up operations game from 6 o clock to 12 o clock



Money is old excuse of PAF. It is an incompetent organisation.

The seniors have nothing to offer, except media assurances.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

tps77 said:


> We gave it a break because our Spada weren't getting A cat operational. Till 2016 case was being reconsidered again and was set as 2nd priority ,1st one is to replace those MPDR's after them comes Crotales.





tps77 said:


> maybe who knows but Siemens have got more chances.





tps77 said:


> They can be but paf has got good experience while working on there's system.
> Thats why Paf is seriously considering them.
> 
> 
> keep guessing


IIRC Siemens was absorbed into Airbus DS's radar division, which was then spun-off into Hensoldt, which inherited most if not all of Airbus DS' radar, avionics, EW/ECM and optronics work. Hensoldt is based out of Germany and I can confirm that the Siemens support team dealing with Pakistan is in Hensoldt and that the company has another team assigned for managing sales to Turkey and Pakistan. Hensoldt also held some kind of marketing thing in Pakistan in May and then something was brought to Pakistan in August.

The shots are from public EXIM logs.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
4


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Money is old excuse of PAF. It is an incompetent organisation.
> 
> The seniors have nothing to offer, except media assurances.


Just double its budget , we will see drastic changes I assure you
From 1bn$ to 2bn$ 
Who knows maybe then we get eurofighters then

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Gryphon

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IIRC Siemens was absorbed into Airbus DS's radar division, which was then spun-off into Hensoldt, which inherited most if not all of Airbus DS' radar, avionics, EW/ECM and optronics work. Hensoldt is based out of Germany and I can confirm that the Siemens support team dealing with Pakistan is in Hensoldt and that the company has another team assigned for managing sales to Turkey and Pakistan. Hensoldt also held some kind of marketing thing in Pakistan in May and then something was brought to Pakistan in August.
> 
> The shots are from public EXIM logs.



The weight of the shipment was 11.2 kg. IMO, not something to debate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mentee

khanasifm said:


> paf ordered Saab vs zdk it tells you something Saab is far better not to say zdk has issues but may be Saab brings capability that out shines zdk or paf has more money to spend  and who knows ... just guessing here


in simple words, zdk couldn't be paired with the paf f-16 fleet without u.s consent hence we see saab standing in the paf's hangers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> The weight of the shipment was 11.2 kg. IMO, not something to debate.


How did you conclude that was weight in kg?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> The weight of the shipment was 11.2 kg. IMO, not something to debate.


Maybe some electronics equipment of sensor. Both the packages were delivered to alc's who are near to major AD engg depots.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

tps77 said:


> Just double its budget , we will see drastic changes I assure you
> From 1bn$ to 2bn$
> Who knows maybe then we get eurofighters then


This is nearly $7 billion U.S. right here:

Another 78 cases worth Rs1.53tr were pointed out as having ‘weak internal financial controls’, while Rs730bn in ‘overpayments’ and ‘misappropriation of public funds’ were placed on the record.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1354438​

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hassan1

what about these?
FPS-89/100
Type 514
Thomson-CSF ATC
Condor
AR-1/6 Radar
AR-15
FPS-6
FPS-20
Plessey HF-200

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Mentee said:


> in simple words, zdk couldn't be with the paf f-16 fleet without u.s consent hence we see saab standing in the paf's hangers.


Americans have no leverage on our old f 16's only on block52 that too for just another 2 years as that condition is also going to end .And our f 16's can be linked with zdk . Zdk's sensor was a lil bit of issue thats why saab was preferred but we cannot underestimate zdk at all

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Gryphon

It's a package. All those weights are in kgs (unless mentioned as a shipping container).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> This is nearly $7 billion U.S. right here:
> 
> Another 78 cases worth Rs1.53tr were pointed out as having ‘weak internal financial controls’, while Rs730bn in ‘overpayments’ and ‘misappropriation of public funds’ were placed on the record.
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1354438​


But who can get them for paf and navy. 
MOI and MOFA has soo much irregularities that all our issues can be resolved for tge mean time.



hassan1 said:


> what about these?
> FPS-89/100
> Type 514
> Thomson-CSF ATC
> Condor
> AR-1/6 Radar
> AR-15
> FPS-6
> FPS-20
> Plessey HF-200


Only the first one is in service as per my knowledge but they are merged into diff sqn's/wings so we don't count them as diff sqn's .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

tps77 said:


> But who can get them for paf and navy.
> MOI and MOFA has soo much irregularities that all our issues can be resolved for tge mean time.


It really gets me. There's being poor, which is a fact, but being poor doesn't necessarily need to preclude the PAF from 4.5 gen fighters. If there's $10 bn being pilfered each year, one can dedicate $2.5 bn for defence and the rest for health and education. Over a decade that $2.5 bn is $25 bn. It's a country of 200 million people, but our fiscal situation would make it seem like we're all living in tents and riding donkeys.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Mentee

tps77 said:


> Americans have no leverage on our old f 16's only on block52 that too for just another 2 years as that condition is also going to end .And our f 16's can be linked with zdk . Zdk's sensor was a lil bit of issue thats why saab was preferred but we cannot underestimate zdk at all


2 things were taken into account while placing an order for the saab

1 source codes
2 the need of diversifying the aerial assets

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Tps43

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> It really gets me. There's being poor, which is a fact, but being poor doesn't necessarily need to preclude the PAF from 4.5 gen fighters. If there's $10 bn being pilfered each year, one can dedicate $2.5 bn for defence and the rest for health and education. Over a decade that $2.5 bn is $25 bn. It's a country of 200 million people, but our fiscal situation would make it seem like we're all living in tents and riding donkeys.


Yes even if we start to take 100 rs on average from each Pakistan we get 20bn rs each year and our small defence needs can be filled but alas.



Mentee said:


> 2 things were taken into account while placing an order for the saab
> 
> 1 source codes
> 2 the need of diversifying the aerial assets


That's why we have zdk

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Mentee

tps77 said:


> That's why we have zdk


weren't yiu implying something else

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

It's worth remembering that Sweden isn't in NATO. In other words, Saab, while Western technology, isn't necessarily tied to the same restrictions. There are cases where it is (e.g. where U.S/U.K subassemblies are involved), but in other areas, such as Saab's proprietary radar technology, it may be more liberal.

For example, Saab's own marketing material clearly states that the Erieye can be paired with "Real-time *in-house data link* dedicated for AEW&C or NATO Link 16 and Link11." Saab is basically saying that if you have a proprietary data-link or are in need of one, that can be paired to the Erieye. And unless there is a sudden surge of Western fighters actually coming, the PAF probably ordered 3 more Erieye AEW&C with the intention of linking to the JF-17s. 

https://saab.com/globalassets/publications-pdfs/eds/radar/airborne/erieye_en_2013.pdf

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Tps43

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IIRC Siemens was absorbed into Airbus DS's radar division, which was then spun-off into Hensoldt, which inherited most if not all of Airbus DS' radar, avionics, EW/ECM and optronics work. Hensoldt is based out of Germany and I can confirm that the Siemens support team dealing with Pakistan is in Hensoldt and that the company has another team assigned for managing sales to Turkey and Pakistan. Hensoldt also held some kind of marketing thing in Pakistan in May and then something was brought to Pakistan in August.
> 
> The shots are from public EXIM logs.


They are here for trails again in Pakistan most probably. I can narrate one incident of mpdr's ,
Once in hot day in south punjab with almost 50 C outside mpdr picked up bogey at 33k feet that too inside our hostile neighbors territory and actually mpdr is not used to see things above at max 15k feet so this it self speaks the capacity of old but reliable sys .



Mentee said:


> weren't yiu implying something else


I was answering ur question regarding diversity of our AWACS.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> It's worth remembering that Sweden isn't in NATO. In other words, Saab, while Western technology, isn't necessarily tied to the same restrictions. There are cases where it is (e.g. where U.S/U.K subassemblies are involved), but in other areas, such as Saab's proprietary radar technology, it may be more liberal.
> 
> For example, Saab's own marketing material clearly states that the Erieye can be paired with "Real-time *in-house data link* dedicated for AEW&C or NATO Link 16 and Link11." Saab is basically saying that if you have a proprietary data-link or are in need of one, that can be paired to the Erieye. And unless there is a sudden surge of Western fighters actually coming, the PAF probably ordered 3 more Erieye AEW&C with the intention of linking to the JF-17s.
> 
> https://saab.com/globalassets/publications-pdfs/eds/radar/airborne/erieye_en_2013.pdf


I have one query in my mind should these new AWACS be with old sqn or a new one should be raised at New location?
U are right regarding Sweden that's why they offered us girphen's during sanction period.

@Mentee apna bhai ko light liya hoa hai

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

tps77 said:


> I Beg to differ,Crotales are here currently operational/standby with 5 squadrons.
> Talks/work being done to upgrade those crotale batteries by Thales.
> Question Might arise why Crotales are still operational? Because they are filling gaps which Spada Cant fullfill,I wont go into further Details.


Something's unclear to me - doesn't the legacy Crotale (that Pakistan uses) have a ceiling in terms of upgrades? IIRC Thales determined that ceiling in the 1990s when it introduced the Crotale NG and VT-1.

Besides changing the land-based fire control radar/command systems and the Crotale's guidance suite, there isn't much else one can do (structurally speaking). The next course would be to switch to a high velocity SAM (ideally with thrust-vectoring) like the VT-1 (or a land-launched HOBS/5th-gen WVRAAM).



tps77 said:


> I have one query in my mind should these new AWACS be with old sqn or a new one should be raised at New location?
> U are right regarding Sweden that's why they offered us girphen's during sanction period.


The way I understood it is that the new Erieyes are being bought to fulfill the PAF's original plan for 6 Erieye AEW&C. At that time, the plan was for the PAF to have 6 Erieye and the PN to have 3 Hawkeye 2000s (integrated to the P-3B). That obviously didn't work out, but you'll notice that the KE/ZDK-03 has been a native to the maritime environment and working in close concert with the PN. Moreover, SAC (via Shahbaz) has the 18 Block-52+ which could benefit from a local Erieye posting.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Something's unclear to me - doesn't the legacy Crotale (that Pakistan uses) have a ceiling in terms of upgrades? IIRC Thales determined that ceiling in the 1990s when it introduced the Crotale NG and VT-1.
> 
> Besides changing the land-based fire control radar/command systems and the Crotale's guidance suite, there isn't much else one can do (structurally speaking). The next course would be to switch to a high velocity SAM (ideally with thrust-vectoring) like the VT-1 (or a land-launched HOBS/5th-gen WVRAAM).
> 
> 
> The way I understood it is that the new Erieyes are being bought to fulfill the PAF's original plan for 6 Erieye AEW&C. At that time, the plan was for the PAF to have 6 Erieye and the PN to have 3 Hawkeye 2000s (integrated to the P-3B). That obviously didn't work out, but you'll notice that the KE/ZDK-03 has been a native to the maritime environment and working in close concert with the PN. Moreover, SAC (via Shahbaz) has the 18 Block-52+ which could benefit from a local Erieye posting. I think SAC could end up getting a dedicated AEW&C squadron (besides the KE).


That's the beauty of French and crotales they had set the ceiling for upgrades but they are always willing to do upgrades on crotals also paf is interested in upgrading only newer crotals which we got from libya and they were literally untouched . Btw some of its missile related upgrades were also being done by our own KRL a sqn there is there for the same said purpose as its the most well established and oldest sam sqn of paf.

Regarding AWACS I think they should be located in CAC as they r currently without any AWACS , Paf have habit instead of building big sqn relocating them at other locations as well

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

tps77 said:


> That's the beauty of French and crotales they had set the ceiling for upgrades but they are always willing to do upgrades on crotals also paf is interested in upgrading only newer crotals which we got from libya and they were literally untouched . Btw some of its missile related upgrades were also being done by our own KRL a sqn there is there for the same said purpose as its the most well established and oldest sam sqn of paf.


They can basically phase it into a long-term, two-part program. First, get new ground equipment (e.g. FCR, C2 system, etc) and upgrade the existing Crotale missiles. In 10-15 years, swap out the Crotale with new-gen missiles while still keeping the relatively new ground detection and command equipment.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Taygibay

Cornered Tiger said:


> Max Alt is wrong here, It's in Km actually



 ...  ... ​ It's in m as in meters, mate! ***
The pic states 25 000 ft and you meant to correct to m.

25 thousand Km is far out our 160km atmosphere but a
tad short of the 35 000 km geostationary satellites orbit.
Not the most requested range for anti-air defense? 

Great day to you and all, Tay.

* I'm very proud of myself with that pun; thoughts to Rita and the B...s.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Mentee

tps77 said:


> apna bhai ko light liya hoa hai


yeah just make sure not to get the attention of big biys . I mean your signature might be getting registered on someone's seismograph as we speak right now

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

Mentee said:


> yeah just make sure not to get the attention of big biys . I mean your signature might be getting registered on someone's seismograph as we speak right now


Lol no issues I'm under water going undetected till now.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tps43

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> They can basically phase it into a long-term, two-part program. First, get new ground equipment (e.g. FCR, C2 system, etc) and upgrade the existing Crotale missiles. In 10-15 years, swap out the Crotale with new-gen missiles while still keeping the relatively new ground detection and command equipment.


The first phase has already been cleared , Crotales have now got matser control posts with round the clock shifts even if crotales batteries are on standby.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> The first phase has already been cleared , Crotales have now got matser control posts with round the clock shifts even if crotales batteries are on standby.



Are the Crotales also deployed for base defence (like Spada)? 

Pak was looking to buy FD-2000 sometime back. I suppose those will go to Army ADC when acquired.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> They can basically phase it into a long-term, two-part program. First, get new ground equipment (e.g. FCR, C2 system, etc) and upgrade the existing Crotale missiles. In 10-15 years, swap out the Crotale with new-gen missiles while still keeping the relatively new ground detection and command equipment.



Reminds me of NCES, which has an unidentified customer.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Are the Crotales also deployed for base defence (like Spada)?
> 
> Pak was looking to buy FD-2000 sometime back. I suppose those will go to Army ADC when acquired.
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of NCES, which has an unidentified customer.


yes Like Spada 2000 they are being used for base defence and VA/VP's 
Pak was looking for it dont know current status maybe they are/were with army but regarding AF I have no idea.
But who know's both arms get them just like case with crotales and FM-90.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> yes Like Spada 2000 they are being used for base defence and VA/VP's
> Pak was looking for it dont know current status maybe they are/were with army but regarding AF I have no idea.
> But who know's both arms get them just like case with crotales and FM-90.



AFAIK, Crotale's are with PAF and FM-90 with AADC.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Taha Samad

What are the roles of Army Air Defense and Air Force Air Defense? Shouldn't there be an ISAD(Inter-Services Air Defense)?

It appears currently Air Force Air Defense is mostly responsible of guarding its own assets like bases, radar station etc.

While army air defense has more wider responsibility of guarding Army Formations, Important Strategic Installations [nuclear sites, command & control centers], important road and rail links (e.g. bridges), important cities with industrial complex & ports(e.g. Islamabad, Karachi, Ormara, Gwader).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> AFAIK, Crotale's are with PAF and FM-90 with AADC.


FM 90 is improved form of crotales that was what I trying to say.



Taha Samad said:


> What are the roles of Army Air Defense and Air Force Air Defense? Shouldn't there be an ISAD(Inter-Services Air Defense)?
> 
> It appears currently Air Force Air Defense is mostly responsible of guarding its own assets like bases, radar station etc.
> 
> While army air defense has more wider responsibility of guarding Army Formations, Important Strategic Installations [nuclear sites, command & control centers], important road and rail links (e.g. bridges), important cities with industrial complex & ports(e.g. Islamabad, Karachi, Ormara, Gwader).


There r 2 components of air defence one is detection and other one is shooting down the intruder , Paf AD is responsible for overall air space of Pakistan and all components of navy and army are connected with it not vice versa .
Paf has covered all area of Pakistan as far as detection is concerned all army's cantonments , af bases and navy installations and strategic locations.
In this regard army is using detection components only over its aaa's now comes shooting intruder , paf is giving cover to all af bases and "nuclear installations" where as army is giving cover to all those things u mentioned . But I agree we should have a combine air defence force.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> FM 90 is improved form of crotales that was what I trying to say.
> 
> 
> There r 2 components of air defence one is detection and other one is shooting down the intruder , Paf AD is responsible for overall air space of Pakistan and all components of navy and army are connected with it not vice versa .
> Paf has covered all area of Pakistan as far as detection is concerned all army's cantonments , af bases and navy installations and strategic locations.
> In this regard army is using detection components only over its aaa's now comes shooting intruder , paf is giving cover to all af bases and "nuclear installations" where as army is giving cover to all those things u mentioned . But I agree we should have a combine air defence force.



Army ADC has SAM's for specific roles. FM-90 is for dealing with drones, cruise missiles and PGMs and is active with holding corps. LY-80 defends important installations.

Ops (detection & targeting) of these SAMs is probably the responsibility of PAF. I hope they are fully integrated with PAF's network and proper IFF arrangements are in place.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Army ADC has SAM's for specific roles. FM-90 is for dealing with drones, cruise missiles and PGMs and is active with holding corps. LY-80 defends important installations.
> 
> Ops (detection & targeting) of these SAMs is probably the responsibility of PAF. I hope they are fully integrated with PAF's network and proper IFF arrangements are in place.


LY 80 is new addition u r gonna see good news regarding a major sam for paf being used for vital installation.They are fully integrated with PAF's network and proper IFF arrangements are in place for All installations. AOC ADC is also member of National Security committee of pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> LY 80 is new addition u r gonna see good news regarding a major sam for paf being used for vital installation.They are fully integrated with PAF's network and proper IFF arrangements are in place for All installations. AOC ADC is also member of National Security committee of pakistan.



PAF is cash strapped. I don't have the expectations.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> PAF is cash strapped. I don't have the expectations.


They do are cash strapped but I got some signals that something is cooking.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

tps77 said:


> They do are cash strapped but I got some signals that something is cooking.


Just an FYI ... but the Denel Dynamics Umkhonto is a pretty affordable system. The Umkhonto IR has a range of 20 km and there's an updated version in development (Umkhonto EIR/35 km range). But Algeria paid about $60 m to fit the Umkhonto to two of its frigates, each with 32 VLS cells plus 100 missiles, FCS and integration costs. That is two batteries, which isn't a bad price at all. In contrast to the Spada 2000-Plus, the Umkhonto IR works with the FCR guiding the missile via INS and then a terminal-stage IR seeker kicking in at the end. Just saying.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tps43

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Just an FYI ... but the Denel Dynamics Umkhonto is a pretty affordable system. The Umkhonto IR has a range of 20 km and there's an updated version in development (Umkhonto EIR/35 km range). But Algeria paid about $60 m to fit the Umkhonto to two of its frigates, each with 32 VLS cells plus 100 missiles, FCS and integration costs. That is two batteries, which isn't a bad price at all. In contrast to the Spada 2000-Plus, the Umkhonto IR works with the FCR guiding the missile via INS and then a terminal-stage IR seeker kicking in at the end. Just saying.


Maybe, But I don't think Paf gonna look for A sam with same range of Spada , The vibes I got are that they are looking for a Big ticket Purchase in cat of longer range SAM as compared to Spada and crotales who would replace crotales and they will convert some MOU sqn's into SAM sqn's.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> Maybe, But I don't think Paf gonna look for A sam with same range of Spada , The vibes I got are that they are looking for a Big ticket Purchase in cat of longer range SAM as compared to Spada and crotales who would replace crotales and they will convert some MOU sqn's into SAM sqn's.



If they want to upgrade the Crotale's, why look for their replacement ?
What are those MOU squadrons?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> If they want to upgrade the Crotale's, why look for their replacement ?
> What are those MOU squadrons?


Mobile observer units (MOU)
They want to upgrade Crotale and Also want its replacement because They want to increase the establishment of SAM sqn's .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Gryphon

tps77 said:


> Mobile observer units (MOU)
> They want to upgrade Crotale and Also want its replacement because They want to increase the establishment of SAM sqn's .



Maybe, they will look at CAMM-ER missile to replace Aspide 2000 currently used with the Spada 2000 system.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tps43

TheOccupiedKashmir said:


> Maybe, they will look at CAMM-ER missile to replace Aspide 2000 currently used with the Spada 2000 system.


Yes lets see and hope for the best but I can assure u that which ever deal finalizes There wont be any kickbacks

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hell hound

tps77 said:


> LY 80 is new addition u r gonna see good news regarding a major sam for paf being used for vital installation.They are fully integrated with PAF's network and proper IFF arrangements are in place for All installations. AOC ADC is also member of National Security committee of pakistan.


one question about ly 80 or hq 16 which one do we have? is it the semi active A version or active guided B version.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tps43

Hell hound said:


> one question about ly 80 or hq 16 which one do we have? is it the semi active A version or active guided B version.


Ly 80.
Its active guided B version acc to my knowledge.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Hell hound

tps77 said:


> Ly 80.
> Its active guided B version acc to my knowledge.


thanks bro you made my day with this info.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

Hell hound said:


> thanks bro you made my day with this info.


then Throw me a party

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Hell hound

tps77 said:


> then Throw me a party


treat ready hay bus app ki shadi ho jaye to deta hon
@Mentee

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Basel

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IIRC Siemens was absorbed into Airbus DS's radar division, which was then spun-off into Hensoldt, which inherited most if not all of Airbus DS' radar, avionics, EW/ECM and optronics work. Hensoldt is based out of Germany and I can confirm that the Siemens support team dealing with Pakistan is in Hensoldt and that the company has another team assigned for managing sales to Turkey and Pakistan. Hensoldt also held some kind of marketing thing in Pakistan in May and then something was brought to Pakistan in August.
> 
> The shots are from public EXIM logs.



What PAF is buying from them?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Up to my knowledge PAF will go for western systems and Army will go for Eastern , Now IF we don't have any Long Range Sams available in western market only then we will go for eastern option.
I really like to see more numbers of FM-90 , LY-80s....................

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Basel

CHACHA"G" said:


> Up to my knowledge PAF will go for western systems and Army will go for Eastern , Now IF we don't have any Long Range Sams available in western market only then we will go for eastern option.
> I really like to see more numbers of FM-90 , LY-80s....................



From west at least Aster15/30 & related developments are available if it's latest version suites Pakistan then good to have them

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BATMAN

http://www.janes.com/article/68661/pakistan-army-inducts-chinese-made-ly-80-sam-system

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tps43

Hell hound said:


> treat ready hay bus app ki shadi ho jaye to deta hon
> @Mentee


Abhi deda pagla warna tera karcha ziada ho jai ga



CHACHA"G" said:


> Up to my knowledge PAF will go for western systems and Army will go for Eastern , Now IF we don't have any Long Range Sams available in western market only then we will go for eastern option.
> I really like to see more numbers of FM-90 , LY-80s....................


FM 90 is not a long range SAM but u can definitely wish for more LY 80's .
PAF *WILL *go for any Good long range SAM be it eastern or western in *NEAR FUTURE.*



Basel said:


> What PAF is buying from them?





tps77 said:


> Regarding Spada there was connectivity issue between the battery itself basically linkage between AD and technical setup of equipment for minimum 3 years since we got them , Italians were also confused regarding this problem so Paf officers and tech went through many courses in Italy and Italians worked in Pakistan to fully operationalize the system anyhow It was resolved to some extant in 2015 that is the reason crotales are being kept in loop because they have no issues regarding operations.
> MPDR's are low level radars connected with our mission control centers/wings,We got them in 1970,s and 80,s they are german made from Siemens extremely reliable but have crossed there age quite while ago we have planned to replace them with new systems options were american,german,chinese . Trails of Chinese were held and were rejected , Paf is more inclined towards germans but Americans and chinese both are still pressing for there own systems.
> Actually Paf has got worst experience with chinese one's due to YLC 2 episode and TPS 77 literally gave them eyes but they dont want american sys due to fear of sanctions and also some other technical issues . CAS announced to replace MPDR's during his tenure lets see what happens in the end.





Basel said:


> What PAF is buying from them?


We are guessing LLR's

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Hell hound

tps77 said:


> Abhi deda pagla warna tera karcha ziada ho jai ga


 matlab bhabhi mil gai akhir kar  
@Mentee @RealNapster @Starlord @The Sandman oye kholo botal ek or yar ka janaza uthney wala hay

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Tps43

Hell hound said:


> matlab bhabhi mil gai akhir kar
> @Mentee @RealNapster @Starlord @The Sandman oye kholo botal ek or yar ka janaza uthney wala hay


Dhoondh lee pasand karli baat karna ki himmat allah dega.
BTW seriously aik passand tou ayi hai dekho kia bantaa hai

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## YeBeWarned

Hell hound said:


> matlab bhabhi mil gai akhir kar
> @Mentee @RealNapster @Starlord @The Sandman oye kholo botal ek or yar ka janaza uthney wala hay



bhai ko tu treat di nai Shaadi ki , aur ab party ker raha hai .. bare bewafa niklay yaar tum  

@tps77 are you implying PA is operating HQ-16B with 60+ KM range ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

Starlord said:


> bhai ko tu treat di nai Shaadi ki , aur ab party ker raha hai .. bare bewafa niklay yaar tum
> 
> @tps77 are you implying PA is operating HQ-16B with 60+ KM range ?


treat abhi nhi shaadi ka baad
No I was talking about FM 90 someone mentioned them as Long range SAM's .
Army is using LY 80 but with active guided setup.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## YeBeWarned

tps77 said:


> treat abhi nhi shaadi ka baad
> No I was talking about FM 90 someone mentioned them as Long range SAM's .
> Army is using LY 80 but with active guided setup.



aby bhai mai apni Shaadi ki baat ker raha hun, Taza taza shaadi shuda hua hun  
oh, any chance or news on a Follow up order of Ly-80 ? we know first order was 3, than follow up by 5-6 .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tps43

Starlord said:


> aby bhai mai apni Shaadi ki baat ker raha hun, Taza taza shaadi shuda hua hun
> oh, any chance or news on a Follow up order of Ly-80 ? we know first order was 3, than follow up by 5-6 .


depends upon there performance for now its 50-50



Starlord said:


> aby bhai mai apni Shaadi ki baat ker raha hun, Taza taza shaadi shuda hua hun
> oh, any chance or news on a Follow up order of Ly-80 ? we know first order was 3, than follow up by 5-6 .


Mubarkaa tou phr meri treat???

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## YeBeWarned

tps77 said:


> depends upon there performance for now its 50-50



well if PA is working of a LR-SAM that means they are done with SR/MR SAM's and now moving forward, as much as i am fan of Aster 30, it would be a expensive but worthy Addition .. for Pantsir if it happens , it will be good along with FM-90 for our forward moving Armored Divisions . Indian are getting Apache, we need a good layer AD for our Tanks to push on without been crisp by Indian Helicopter fleet.



tps77 said:


> Mubarkaa tou phr meri treat???



Punjab a ker dun ga.. line mai ajyen sab, sab ko mile ga

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Mentee

@tps77 O putar chupp kr ja

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

Starlord said:


> well if PA is working of a LR-SAM that means they are done with SR/MR SAM's and now moving forward, as much as i am fan of Aster 30, it would be a expensive but worthy Addition .. for Pantsir if it happens , it will be good along with FM-90 for our forward moving Armored Divisions . Indian are getting Apache, we need a good layer AD for our Tanks to push on without been crisp by Indian Helicopter fleet.
> 
> 
> 
> Punjab a ker dun ga.. line mai ajyen sab, sab ko mile ga


I agree with u lets see what happens picture will be clear in 1 2 years It all depends when the sys works in feild .



Mentee said:


> @tps77 O putar chupp kr ja


kis kis baat par??



Starlord said:


> well if PA is working of a LR-SAM that means they are done with SR/MR SAM's and now moving forward, as much as i am fan of Aster 30, it would be a expensive but worthy Addition .. for Pantsir if it happens , it will be good along with FM-90 for our forward moving Armored Divisions . Indian are getting Apache, we need a good layer AD for our Tanks to push on without been crisp by Indian Helicopter fleet.
> 
> 
> 
> Punjab a ker dun ga.. line mai ajyen sab, sab ko mile ga


Aur agr bhabhi na kaha punjab nhee jaon gee

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Mentee

tps77 said:


> kis kis baat par??



lal batti k phayray shoro ho sakty bro

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## YeBeWarned

tps77 said:


> Aur agr bhabhi na kaha punjab nhee jaon gee



ayen gi ayen gi .. hum layen Inshallah

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tps43

Starlord said:


> ayen gi ayen gi .. hum layen Inshallah


phr dekhta hain 
barrat ka patta hota tou @Mentee ko as a shabla hee bhaj deta kia khyal hai @The Sandman @Hell hound

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Hell hound

tps77 said:


> phr dekhta hain
> barrat ka patta hota tou @Mentee ko as a shabla hee bhaj deta kia khyal hai @The Sandman @Hell hound


hahaha just imagine nika sa @Mentee radar redome jesa kulla pehan kay kesa lagey ga

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mentee

tps77 said:


> phr dekhta hain
> barrat ka patta hota tou @Mentee ko as a shabla hee bhaj deta kia khyal hai @The Sandman @Hell hound


godaa pharai b shah baala he krta Hain daikhi kahi marriage teh o baala na ho jay 



Hell hound said:


> hahaha just imagine nika sa @Mentee radar redome ki shakal jesa kulla pehan kay kesa lagey ga


size KO kea krna Hain Tsi Mera kulla vaikhya j

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hell hound

Mentee said:


> size KO kea krna Hain Tsi Mera kulla vaikhya j


 gandi batien woh bhi barey bhai say

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mentee

Hell hound said:


> gandi batien woh bhi barey bhai say


meri kea majaal bry Bhai  kullay Ki bat Ki thi

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RealNapster

Hell hound said:


> @Mentee @RealNapster @Starlord @The Sandman oye kholo botal ek or yar ka janaza uthney wala hay



Bottle kulwani hay wo b mere se  ? ye to wohe bat hue. 






so maana kay naswar karty hay but bottle ????? no no no no

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khadim e Darul Ehsaan

Sir Our LY80 has 40km range or 70km range or any else ??? @tps77

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRK

Khadim e Darul Ehsaan said:


> Sir Our LY80 has 40km range or 70km range or any else ??? @tps77



40 KM as publicly announced in Pakistan day parade

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Some more imports from Hensoldt, but to Aviation Productions Factory at PAC. @TheOccupiedKashmir @tps77






https://pak.eximtradeinfo.com/items/Hensoldt

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Falcon26

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Some more imports from Hensoldt, but to Aviation Productions Factory at PAC. @TheOccupiedKashmir @tps77
> 
> View attachment 428115
> 
> 
> https://pak.eximtradeinfo.com/items/Hensoldt



Can you provide more information about what these sensors are? 

Thanks


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Falcon26 said:


> Can you provide more information about what these sensors are?
> 
> Thanks


It's not known. Hensoldt inherited Siemens, so it could be MPDR-related stuff for maintenance and/or rebuild work at PAC. Alternatively, it could be specific components for avionics suites (for JF-17), C4I, etc. If it's in relation to a new system, it could be CKDs for a radar for the PAF to trial, but if the measurement is in kg, then they'll need 2-3 shipments of that size to give a reliable indication.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Gryphon

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Some more imports from Hensoldt, but to Aviation Productions Factory at PAC. @TheOccupiedKashmir @tps77
> 
> View attachment 428115
> 
> 
> https://pak.eximtradeinfo.com/items/Hensoldt



Probably spares.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Some more imports from Hensoldt, but to Aviation Productions Factory at PAC. @TheOccupiedKashmir @tps77
> 
> View attachment 428115
> 
> 
> https://pak.eximtradeinfo.com/items/Hensoldt


Spares Most probably but my 6th sense says this is related to trails for the replacement of MPDR's as those sys were sent back for some modifications but If we look at the quantity stated here I think they r spares logically saying but they also can be components for the new trail radars.
My Final words=Related to trails for new sys.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Inception-06

HRK said:


> 40 KM as publicly announced in Pakistan day parade




A selam, how are you, Sir? Pakdef.org seems down forever any news from Harris Khan or Usman?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

Ulla said:


> A selam, how are you, Sir? Pakdef.org seems down forever any news from Harris Khan or Usman?



nope.... I also tried many times but no success either its gone or they are facing some very big technical issue

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Major Sam

HRK said:


> nope.... I also tried many times but no success either its gone or they are facing some very big technical issue


The way they were having arguments it might b possible it has gone for ever. But m praying for their come back. Finger cross

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## MastanKhan

Ulla said:


> A selam, how are you, Sir? Pakdef.org seems down forever any news from Harris Khan or Usman?



Hi,

That was a worthless kiss ar-se website---.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Taha Samad

Did pakistan get L88 Aerostat radars? There are notifications to congress from 2002, but can not find anything else. 

If acquired how does that effect our low-level radar coverage? 

Secondly did Pakistan acquire YLC-6 systems from China?


----------



## khanasifm

Taha Samad said:


> Did pakistan get L88 Aerostat radars? There are notifications to congress from 2002, but can not find anything else.
> 
> If acquired how does that effect our low-level radar coverage?
> 
> Secondly did Pakistan acquire YLC-6 systems from China?



No, yes


----------



## Taha Samad

khanasifm said:


> No, yes



Hmm, following post suggests we did:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/army-readies-jlens-surveillance-aerostat.320914/page-2#post-5867404



> We use the L88 Tethered Aerostat Radar System by Lockheed.
> Radar Range is +/- 400km / 200NM
> Max Altitude is 25,000feet / 7.6km


--

Other links suggest at least initial process of FMS:

https://www.dawn.com/news/350999



> Another system to be acquired by Pakistan from the US at a cost of $155 million include low technology, fixed site six Aerostat L-88 radars to monitor ground traffic and low flying aircraft along the western borders.
> 
> Functioning of the L-88 radar systems is conditional to assignment of 16 representatives of the US government and its contractors for annual programme management and technical reviews to Pakistan.


--

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...stats-rise-through-ranks-surveillance-service



> Pakistan is reported to be acquiring six L-88 radar-carrying aerostats. India bought Elta-radar equipped aerostats from Israel to monitor the Pakistan border, one of which was lost in “difficult weather” but the country ordered more as a response to the seaborne terrorist attack on Mumbai.


--

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...tan-to-acquire-l_88-radar-system-(aug-1).html



> PAKISTAN Aerostat L-88 Radar System
> (Source : US Defense Security Cooperation Agency ; issued July 31, 2002)


--

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pafs-drones-aerostat.28955/



> Other nations using aerostat-mounted sensors include Israel, with Elta EL/M-2083 radars on Tcom platforms. India has bought similar systems. Israel also operates the Tcom 32M aerostat with EL/I-3330 radar. *Pakistan uses the ILC Dover Tars (Tethered Aerostat Radar System), developed for the US Air Force. *The United Arab Emirates use the Tcom Tas (Tactical Aerostat System) with 17M and 71M balloons.


--

Although delivery for any US system is generally public event, so lack of news may suggest that deal may not have gone through. But considering this was in same time period as TPS-77 / F-16 deal, it seems unlikely that congress would have blocked sale of L-88 radars when sale of F-16 and TPS-77 went through. Any info on what went wrong? 

Any idea on number of YLC-6?


----------



## Taha Samad

I guess total stands something like:
6 TPS-77
5 YLC-2
6 TPS-43 (Acquired in 70s/80s)

10 YLC-6
45 MPDR-45/60/90
6 L-88 V3 Aerostat / TARS (Unconfirmed, but great addition to low level capability; with ability to operate at 25K Ft and range of 400Km)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-plugging-the-gaps.9109/



> The service has also acquired several new radar systems from China, including the YLC-2 long-range 3-D phased-array surveillance system and previously unknown YLC-6 low-level system. Six of 10 YLC-6 radars on order have so far been delivered and Pakistan is also gaining six US-made AN/TPS-77 tactical mobile radars for medium-level application.


--

http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/02.surv/karte032.en.html



> A total of 5 sets of YLC-2 radar systems were delivered to Pakistan from 2003 to 2004.


----------



## Taha Samad

Taha Samad said:


> I guess total stands something like:
> 6 TPS-77
> 5 YLC-2
> 6 TPS-43 (Acquired in 70s/80s)
> 
> 10 YLC-6
> 45 MPDR-45/60/90
> 6 L-88 V3 Aerostat / TARS (Unconfirmed, but great addition to low level capability; with ability to operate at 25K Ft and range of 400Km)
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-plugging-the-gaps.9109/
> 
> 
> --
> 
> http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/02.surv/karte032.en.html


@Bilal Khan 777 Sir, are you aware of what happened to L-88 Aerostat acquisition?


----------



## ejaz007

*PAKISTAN Aerostat L-88 Radar System
(Source : US Defense Security Cooperation Agency ; issued July 31, 2002)*

On 26 July 2002, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan of Aerostat Radar Systems as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $155 million.

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of six Aerostat L-88 Radar Systems, spare and repair parts, facility construction and support, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $155 million.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country which has been and continues to be an important partner in the war on terrorism in South Asia.

The radar systems will add to Pakistan's ability to monitor its western borders in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and control narcotics trade activities. Specifically, the radar systems will be used to monitor ground traffic and low-flying aircraft along this border. The Aerostat is a relatively low technology, fixed site system which Pakistan can easily absorb and utilize within its existing structure.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region.

The prime contractor will be the Lockheed Martin-Akron of Akron, Ohio and/or TCOM, L.P. of Columbia, Maryland. There are no offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale will require the assignment of eight each U.S. Government and contractor representatives for annual program management and technical reviews to Pakistan.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.

-ends-

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...tan-to-acquire-l_88-radar-system-(aug-1).html

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

@tps77 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) 

After a long time, I have been so hooked to a thread. I went through the last 10 pages, and immensely enjoyed the contribution made by both of you. 

The rating is not for just one post, but for bringing qualitative substance to this thread, and forum. 

Thank You, and Keep up the good work!!

Best Regards

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Tps43

Khafee said:


> @tps77 @Bilal Khan (Quwa)
> 
> After a long time, I have been so hooked to a thread. I went through the last 10 pages, and immensely enjoyed the contribution made by both of you.
> 
> The rating is not for just one post, but for bringing qualitative substance to this thread, and forum.
> 
> Thank You, and Keep up the good work!!
> 
> Best Regards


Thanks , I'm happy that u enjoyed it . Looking forward to contribute more.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

ejaz007 said:


> *PAKISTAN Aerostat L-88 Radar System
> (Source : US Defense Security Cooperation Agency ; issued July 31, 2002)*
> 
> On 26 July 2002, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan of Aerostat Radar Systems as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $155 million.
> 
> The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of six Aerostat L-88 Radar Systems, spare and repair parts, facility construction and support, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $155 million.
> 
> This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country which has been and continues to be an important partner in the war on terrorism in South Asia.
> 
> The radar systems will add to Pakistan's ability to monitor its western borders in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and control narcotics trade activities. Specifically, the radar systems will be used to monitor ground traffic and low-flying aircraft along this border. The Aerostat is a relatively low technology, fixed site system which Pakistan can easily absorb and utilize within its existing structure.
> 
> The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region.
> 
> The prime contractor will be the Lockheed Martin-Akron of Akron, Ohio and/or TCOM, L.P. of Columbia, Maryland. There are no offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.
> 
> Implementation of this proposed sale will require the assignment of eight each U.S. Government and contractor representatives for annual program management and technical reviews to Pakistan.
> 
> There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
> 
> This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.
> 
> -ends-
> 
> http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...tan-to-acquire-l_88-radar-system-(aug-1).html



Per paf history 1999-2013 theses Radar was evaluated but their availability and up time is ~30 % and paf opted to go for full blown awacs plus ground base radar 

Bottomline did not meet paf requirements


----------



## Inception-06

Pakistani air defence industry:


@Signalian @Dazzler did you guys notice that the Iranian domistic air defence missile programm is much more diversified, well developed and multifaceted compared to us, we have taken zero steps in that direction ! May be I am wrong but iranian list is very long,it would be pathetic and naive to ignore that just stamp it as iranian propaganda and low quality products.


*Air defense weapons*
Qaem - anti-helicopter, lightweight, laser-guided missile
Raad - anti-helicopter system.
Misagh-1 - copy of Chinese QW-1 Vanguard with upgrades
Misagh-2 - copy of Chinese QW-2 Vanguard
Misagh-3 - shoulder-fired missile
23mm Anti-Aircraft Gun - Iranian version of ZU-23 which comes in one or two barrel configurations
Samavat 35mm Anti-Aircraft Guns - Copy of Oerlikon 35 mm twin cannon skyguard
Sa'ir 100mm Anti-Aircraft Guns - Upgraded automatic version of KS-19 100m gun, it can detect and intercept targets automatically through radar or optical systems at low and medium altitude
Shahab Thaqeb (شهاب ثاقب) - copy of the Chinese HQ-7 (FM-80)
SM-1 copy of RIM-66 Standard.
Sayyad-1 / Sayyad-1A - upgraded copy of Chinese HQ-2,[113] Sayyad-1A has IR tracking.
Sayyad-2 (Hunter II). Upgraded version of the Sayyad-1 system with higher precision, range and defensive power. It is equipped with a 200-kilogram warhead and has a speed of 1,200 meters per second. The Sayyad-1 missile defense system is composed of two-stage missiles that can target all kinds of aircraft, including bombers, at medium and high altitudes.[114]
Fajr-8 - upgrade of S-200[115]
Fajr-27 - advanced sea rapid fire cannon[116][117]
Fath (victory) - the 40-millimeter naval cannon's range is 12 km and shoots 300 projectiles per minute.[118][119]
Mersad - Iran's first advanced air defense system based on the US MIM-23 Hawk. It is capable of hitting modern aircraft flying at low and medium altitudes. The Mersad system is equipped with sophisticated radar signal processing technology, an advanced launcher, and electronic equipment for guidance and target acquisition. Mersad uses domestically manufactured Shahin missiles.[120]
Mesbah 1 air defense system - can target and destroy fighters, helicopters, cruise missiles and other objects flying at low altitude. Mesbah 1 is equipped with a three-dimensional interception radar and an optical guidance system. Mesbah 1 can fire four thousand rounds per minute.[121][122]
Mehrab (altar) - surface-to-air medium-range smart missile. The Mehrab missile is equipped with anti-radar and anti-jamming systems, and if the enemy tries to jam the guidance system of the missile, it immediately identifies the source of the interference and changes its course toward the source and destroys the jammer.[123]
Raad - Air defence system with range of 50 kilometers and engagement altitude of 25 to 27 kilometers[124]
Bavar-373 (under development). Iran's corrected version of Russia's S-300 surface-to-air missile system, which uses two or three types of missiles to confront aerial targets in different layers.[125]
Ya Zahra - Low-altitude mobile air defense system.[126]
Soheil - Quadruped- MANPADS missile launcher, which can detect and intercept aerial targets.[127][128]
Herz-9 - Passive low-altitude mobile air defense system with operating range of 10 km and operating altitude of 5 km.[129][130][131]
Talaash- A mid-range, high-altitude missile mobile air defense missile system which uses an upgraded copy of SM-1 (RIM-66) missile called Sayyad-2, in November 2013 Iran launched the production line of Sayyad-2 missile.(The whole system is still under development)[132][133][134]
Asefeh - Asefeh is three-barrelled 23 mm Gatling gun that is reportedly capable of firing up to 900 rounds a minute, it is currently under development by IRGC ground force and will be used as a close in weapon system to defend against cruise missiles.[135]
3rd Khordad - missile system with a range of 75 kilometers and an altitude of 30 kilometers[136][83]
Tabas - missile system with a range of 60 kilometers and an altitude of 30 kilometers

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Khafee

Ulla said:


> Pakistani air defence industry:
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Dazzler did you guys notice that the Iranian domistic air defence missile programm is much more diversified, well developed and multifaceted compared to us, we have taken zero steps in that direction ! May be I am wrong but iranian list is very long,it would be pathetic and naive to ignore that just stamp it as iranian propaganda and low quality products.
> 
> 
> *Air defense weapons*
> Qaem - anti-helicopter, lightweight, laser-guided missile
> Raad - anti-helicopter system.
> Misagh-1 - copy of Chinese QW-1 Vanguard with upgrades
> Misagh-2 - copy of Chinese QW-2 Vanguard
> Misagh-3 - shoulder-fired missile
> 23mm Anti-Aircraft Gun - Iranian version of ZU-23 which comes in one or two barrel configurations
> Samavat 35mm Anti-Aircraft Guns - Copy of Oerlikon 35 mm twin cannon skyguard
> Sa'ir 100mm Anti-Aircraft Guns - Upgraded automatic version of KS-19 100m gun, it can detect and intercept targets automatically through radar or optical systems at low and medium altitude
> Shahab Thaqeb (شهاب ثاقب) - copy of the Chinese HQ-7 (FM-80)
> SM-1 copy of RIM-66 Standard.
> Sayyad-1 / Sayyad-1A - upgraded copy of Chinese HQ-2,[113] Sayyad-1A has IR tracking.
> Sayyad-2 (Hunter II). Upgraded version of the Sayyad-1 system with higher precision, range and defensive power. It is equipped with a 200-kilogram warhead and has a speed of 1,200 meters per second. The Sayyad-1 missile defense system is composed of two-stage missiles that can target all kinds of aircraft, including bombers, at medium and high altitudes.[114]
> Fajr-8 - upgrade of S-200[115]
> Fajr-27 - advanced sea rapid fire cannon[116][117]
> Fath (victory) - the 40-millimeter naval cannon's range is 12 km and shoots 300 projectiles per minute.[118][119]
> Mersad - Iran's first advanced air defense system based on the US MIM-23 Hawk. It is capable of hitting modern aircraft flying at low and medium altitudes. The Mersad system is equipped with sophisticated radar signal processing technology, an advanced launcher, and electronic equipment for guidance and target acquisition. Mersad uses domestically manufactured Shahin missiles.[120]
> Mesbah 1 air defense system - can target and destroy fighters, helicopters, cruise missiles and other objects flying at low altitude. Mesbah 1 is equipped with a three-dimensional interception radar and an optical guidance system. Mesbah 1 can fire four thousand rounds per minute.[121][122]
> Mehrab (altar) - surface-to-air medium-range smart missile. The Mehrab missile is equipped with anti-radar and anti-jamming systems, and if the enemy tries to jam the guidance system of the missile, it immediately identifies the source of the interference and changes its course toward the source and destroys the jammer.[123]
> Raad - Air defence system with range of 50 kilometers and engagement altitude of 25 to 27 kilometers[124]
> Bavar-373 (under development). Iran's corrected version of Russia's S-300 surface-to-air missile system, which uses two or three types of missiles to confront aerial targets in different layers.[125]
> Ya Zahra - Low-altitude mobile air defense system.[126]
> Soheil - Quadruped- MANPADS missile launcher, which can detect and intercept aerial targets.[127][128]
> Herz-9 - Passive low-altitude mobile air defense system with operating range of 10 km and operating altitude of 5 km.[129][130][131]
> Talaash- A mid-range, high-altitude missile mobile air defense missile system which uses an upgraded copy of SM-1 (RIM-66) missile called Sayyad-2, in November 2013 Iran launched the production line of Sayyad-2 missile.(The whole system is still under development)[132][133][134]
> Asefeh - Asefeh is three-barrelled 23 mm Gatling gun that is reportedly capable of firing up to 900 rounds a minute, it is currently under development by IRGC ground force and will be used as a close in weapon system to defend against cruise missiles.[135]
> 3rd Khordad - missile system with a range of 75 kilometers and an altitude of 30 kilometers[136][83]
> Tabas - missile system with a range of 60 kilometers and an altitude of 30 kilometers


There is a glaring difference in doctrine, Quantity Vs Quality. 

PAF/PA prefer Quality, and they have done it quite well.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## ZedZeeshan

Ulla said:


> Pakistani air defence industry:
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Dazzler did you guys notice that the Iranian domistic air defence missile programm is much more diversified, well developed and multifaceted compared to us, we have taken zero steps in that direction ! May be I am wrong but iranian list is very long,it would be pathetic and naive to ignore that just stamp it as iranian propaganda and low quality products.
> 
> 
> *Air defense weapons*
> Qaem - anti-helicopter, lightweight, laser-guided missile
> Raad - anti-helicopter system.
> Misagh-1 - copy of Chinese QW-1 Vanguard with upgrades
> Misagh-2 - copy of Chinese QW-2 Vanguard
> Misagh-3 - shoulder-fired missile
> 23mm Anti-Aircraft Gun - Iranian version of ZU-23 which comes in one or two barrel configurations
> Samavat 35mm Anti-Aircraft Guns - Copy of Oerlikon 35 mm twin cannon skyguard
> Sa'ir 100mm Anti-Aircraft Guns - Upgraded automatic version of KS-19 100m gun, it can detect and intercept targets automatically through radar or optical systems at low and medium altitude
> Shahab Thaqeb (شهاب ثاقب) - copy of the Chinese HQ-7 (FM-80)
> SM-1 copy of RIM-66 Standard.
> Sayyad-1 / Sayyad-1A - upgraded copy of Chinese HQ-2,[113] Sayyad-1A has IR tracking.
> Sayyad-2 (Hunter II). Upgraded version of the Sayyad-1 system with higher precision, range and defensive power. It is equipped with a 200-kilogram warhead and has a speed of 1,200 meters per second. The Sayyad-1 missile defense system is composed of two-stage missiles that can target all kinds of aircraft, including bombers, at medium and high altitudes.[114]
> Fajr-8 - upgrade of S-200[115]
> Fajr-27 - advanced sea rapid fire cannon[116][117]
> Fath (victory) - the 40-millimeter naval cannon's range is 12 km and shoots 300 projectiles per minute.[118][119]
> Mersad - Iran's first advanced air defense system based on the US MIM-23 Hawk. It is capable of hitting modern aircraft flying at low and medium altitudes. The Mersad system is equipped with sophisticated radar signal processing technology, an advanced launcher, and electronic equipment for guidance and target acquisition. Mersad uses domestically manufactured Shahin missiles.[120]
> Mesbah 1 air defense system - can target and destroy fighters, helicopters, cruise missiles and other objects flying at low altitude. Mesbah 1 is equipped with a three-dimensional interception radar and an optical guidance system. Mesbah 1 can fire four thousand rounds per minute.[121][122]
> Mehrab (altar) - surface-to-air medium-range smart missile. The Mehrab missile is equipped with anti-radar and anti-jamming systems, and if the enemy tries to jam the guidance system of the missile, it immediately identifies the source of the interference and changes its course toward the source and destroys the jammer.[123]
> Raad - Air defence system with range of 50 kilometers and engagement altitude of 25 to 27 kilometers[124]
> Bavar-373 (under development). Iran's corrected version of Russia's S-300 surface-to-air missile system, which uses two or three types of missiles to confront aerial targets in different layers.[125]
> Ya Zahra - Low-altitude mobile air defense system.[126]
> Soheil - Quadruped- MANPADS missile launcher, which can detect and intercept aerial targets.[127][128]
> Herz-9 - Passive low-altitude mobile air defense system with operating range of 10 km and operating altitude of 5 km.[129][130][131]
> Talaash- A mid-range, high-altitude missile mobile air defense missile system which uses an upgraded copy of SM-1 (RIM-66) missile called Sayyad-2, in November 2013 Iran launched the production line of Sayyad-2 missile.(The whole system is still under development)[132][133][134]
> Asefeh - Asefeh is three-barrelled 23 mm Gatling gun that is reportedly capable of firing up to 900 rounds a minute, it is currently under development by IRGC ground force and will be used as a close in weapon system to defend against cruise missiles.[135]
> 3rd Khordad - missile system with a range of 75 kilometers and an altitude of 30 kilometers[136][83]
> Tabas - missile system with a range of 60 kilometers and an altitude of 30 kilometers


Non of them is battle tested or reliable verified from any independent source...what I personally think its more like an eye wash to keep enemy at its bay..

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tps43

Ulla said:


> Pakistani air defence industry:
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Dazzler did you guys notice that the Iranian domistic air defence missile programm is much more diversified, well developed and multifaceted compared to us, we have taken zero steps in that direction ! May be I am wrong but iranian list is very long,it would be pathetic and naive to ignore that just stamp it as iranian propaganda and low quality products.
> 
> 
> *Air defense weapons*
> Qaem - anti-helicopter, lightweight, laser-guided missile
> Raad - anti-helicopter system.
> Misagh-1 - copy of Chinese QW-1 Vanguard with upgrades
> Misagh-2 - copy of Chinese QW-2 Vanguard
> Misagh-3 - shoulder-fired missile
> 23mm Anti-Aircraft Gun - Iranian version of ZU-23 which comes in one or two barrel configurations
> Samavat 35mm Anti-Aircraft Guns - Copy of Oerlikon 35 mm twin cannon skyguard
> Sa'ir 100mm Anti-Aircraft Guns - Upgraded automatic version of KS-19 100m gun, it can detect and intercept targets automatically through radar or optical systems at low and medium altitude
> Shahab Thaqeb (شهاب ثاقب) - copy of the Chinese HQ-7 (FM-80)
> SM-1 copy of RIM-66 Standard.
> Sayyad-1 / Sayyad-1A - upgraded copy of Chinese HQ-2,[113] Sayyad-1A has IR tracking.
> Sayyad-2 (Hunter II). Upgraded version of the Sayyad-1 system with higher precision, range and defensive power. It is equipped with a 200-kilogram warhead and has a speed of 1,200 meters per second. The Sayyad-1 missile defense system is composed of two-stage missiles that can target all kinds of aircraft, including bombers, at medium and high altitudes.[114]
> Fajr-8 - upgrade of S-200[115]
> Fajr-27 - advanced sea rapid fire cannon[116][117]
> Fath (victory) - the 40-millimeter naval cannon's range is 12 km and shoots 300 projectiles per minute.[118][119]
> Mersad - Iran's first advanced air defense system based on the US MIM-23 Hawk. It is capable of hitting modern aircraft flying at low and medium altitudes. The Mersad system is equipped with sophisticated radar signal processing technology, an advanced launcher, and electronic equipment for guidance and target acquisition. Mersad uses domestically manufactured Shahin missiles.[120]
> Mesbah 1 air defense system - can target and destroy fighters, helicopters, cruise missiles and other objects flying at low altitude. Mesbah 1 is equipped with a three-dimensional interception radar and an optical guidance system. Mesbah 1 can fire four thousand rounds per minute.[121][122]
> Mehrab (altar) - surface-to-air medium-range smart missile. The Mehrab missile is equipped with anti-radar and anti-jamming systems, and if the enemy tries to jam the guidance system of the missile, it immediately identifies the source of the interference and changes its course toward the source and destroys the jammer.[123]
> Raad - Air defence system with range of 50 kilometers and engagement altitude of 25 to 27 kilometers[124]
> Bavar-373 (under development). Iran's corrected version of Russia's S-300 surface-to-air missile system, which uses two or three types of missiles to confront aerial targets in different layers.[125]
> Ya Zahra - Low-altitude mobile air defense system.[126]
> Soheil - Quadruped- MANPADS missile launcher, which can detect and intercept aerial targets.[127][128]
> Herz-9 - Passive low-altitude mobile air defense system with operating range of 10 km and operating altitude of 5 km.[129][130][131]
> Talaash- A mid-range, high-altitude missile mobile air defense missile system which uses an upgraded copy of SM-1 (RIM-66) missile called Sayyad-2, in November 2013 Iran launched the production line of Sayyad-2 missile.(The whole system is still under development)[132][133][134]
> Asefeh - Asefeh is three-barrelled 23 mm Gatling gun that is reportedly capable of firing up to 900 rounds a minute, it is currently under development by IRGC ground force and will be used as a close in weapon system to defend against cruise missiles.[135]
> 3rd Khordad - missile system with a range of 75 kilometers and an altitude of 30 kilometers[136][83]
> Tabas - missile system with a range of 60 kilometers and an altitude of 30 kilometers


I Know very well about these sys none of homegrown went to mass production there are many other things which I cant state here.



ZedZeeshan said:


> Non of them is battle tested or reliable verified from any independent source...what I personally think its more like an eye wash to keep enemy at its bay..


What we call this is Disinformation. Which works for some and for some not.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ZedZeeshan

tps77 said:


> I Know very well about these sys none of homegrown went to mass production there are many other things which I cant state here.
> 
> 
> What we call this is Disinformation. Which works for some and some not.


In today's time the best battle tested weapon is disinformation. we all know very well that Iran has been under strict sanctions even their students were not allowed to study in good universities of US and Eu. their Disinformation is paying them very well and have saved them from a lot of trouble..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CHI RULES

Khafee said:


> There is a glaring difference in doctrine, Quantity Vs Quality.
> 
> PAF/PA prefer Quality, and they have done it quite well.



Sir in my humble opinion though Pak SAMs apart from Anza and Manpads are quite betetr in quality however considering changing scenarios both on eastern and western borders Pak should also go for quantity. High altitude modern SAMs also still missing.

The official version during OBL operation was that Pak's entire Radar network was jammed. We should check loop holes and try to improve SAM numbers/layers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

CHI RULES said:


> Sir in my humble opinion though Pak SAMs apart from Anza and Manpads are quite betetr in quality however considering changing scenarios both on eastern and western borders Pak should also go for quantity. High altitude modern SAMs also still missing.
> 
> The official version during OBL operation was that Pak's entire Radar network was jammed. We should check loop holes and try to improve SAM numbers/layers.



No radars were jammed, this I can assure you.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Tps43

ZedZeeshan said:


> In today's time the best battle tested weapon is disinformation. we all know very well that Iran has been under strict sanctions even their students were not allowed to study in good universities of US and Eu. their Disinformation is paying them very well and have saved them from a lot of trouble..


But some how they learned now and they are sending there students even to harvard from last 2 3 years

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## CHI RULES

Khafee said:


> No radars were jammed, this I can assure you.


Hi Hi official version just quoted however I honestly believe that Radars provided by USA and EU based radars can be jammed easily by their makers.

You are right reality is always different.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

CHI RULES said:


> Hi Hi official version just quoted however I honestly believe that Radars provided by USA and EU based radars can be jammed easily by their makers.
> 
> You are right reality is always different.


No radars were jammed I too can assure u this , There's another interesting thing which for the sake of national security I dont want to share in public.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ZedZeeshan

tps77 said:


> But some how they learned now and they are sending there students even to harvard from last 2 3 years


Yeah things changed after Obama deal...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

tps77 said:


> No radars were jammed I too can assure u this , There's another interesting thing which for the sake of national security I dont want to share in public.



Is it a political or technical thing ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Readerdefence

Ulla said:


> Is it a political or technical thing ?


Hi looks like political

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

CHI RULES said:


> Hi Hi official version just quoted however I honestly believe that Radars provided by USA and EU based radars can be jammed easily by their makers.
> 
> You are right reality is always different.


I'm not a Pakistani, what do I gain from parroting their official or unofficial lines?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## HRK

CHI RULES said:


> The official version during OBL operation was that Pak's entire Radar network was jammed.


radar were not jammed the reasons which were mention in Abbotabad inquiry commission are














we even picked US F-16s & AWACs inside Afghanistan

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Tps43

Ulla said:


> Is it a political or technical thing ?


technical thing .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## vizier

Turkey is about to acquire S400 and perhaps there are also local developing systems similar to Irans bavar373 not made public. Pakistan also possibly has low numbers of Chinese HQ-9 for nuclear installations and similar since those areas would be very unprotected against a sudden attack otherwise. What would be wrong is neglecting the sams in favor of airforce or vice versa. It would be like a boxer with good punches but its guard down. If for example some country claiming to be your friend and offered to provide aircraft in case of your imminent need but arguing that you allocating budget to high altitude sam systems would be a waste against you advised by your enemies then be sure that they dont have good intentions but to lag you behind and leave you open-vulnurable to others.

Spada sytem seems good to counter cruise missiles and low altitude targets including super sonic cruise missiles but I dont know if its engagement envelope fits to target brahmos though. It can track 12 targets which is suitable against a saturation attack. As I know previously more than a decade ago you started a2a missile development jointly with China for Sd10 missile. There were also a2g missile news (H2, H4) around that era developed by Pakistan based on a2a missile development. So Pakistan can develop this type of ground based amraam system. 

For subsonic cruise missiles you have Hq-7 FM90. It has a cheap missile suitable for the task and is enough to protect mobile columns but to protect airbase or nuclear station from a saturation attack a system needs to be developed having a radar that targets and guides many missiles to multiple targets(10+) at the same time. The radar and guidance is difficult but missiles would be cheap in that case.

Hq 16 can provide medium range cover for all targets be it cruise missiles or aircraft but needs to be coupled with FM90 to protect better against anti radar missiles.

If you have good shorad you can compensate the lackings of a modernized older long range sam. So instead of copying S300 I will later make analysis about modernising longer range systems like S200 or Sa2 modernized versions

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CHI RULES

HRK said:


> radar were not jammed the reasons which were mention in Abbotabad inquiry commission are
> View attachment 438499
> 
> View attachment 438500
> 
> View attachment 438501
> 
> 
> we even picked US F-16s & AWACs inside Afghanistan
> View attachment 438502


Sir nice supporting evidence given by u however now PAF and PA air defense command should learn and hope that they must have deployed Radars to surprise NATO in future. The other point is we should deploy Chinese radars towards Afghan side to minimize chances of easy jamming.



vizier said:


> Turkey is about to acquire S400 and perhaps there are also local developing systems similar to Irans bavar373 not made public. Pakistan also possibly has low numbers of Chinese HQ-9 for nuclear installations and similar since those areas would be very unprotected against a sudden attack otherwise. What would be wrong is neglecting the sams in favor of airforce or vice versa. It would be like a boxer with good punches but its guard down. If for example some country claiming to be your friend and offered to provide aircraft in case of your imminent need but arguing that you allocating budget to high altitude sam systems would be a waste against you advised by your enemies then be sure that they dont have good intentions but to lag you behind and leave you open-vulnurable to others.
> 
> Spada sytem seems good to counter cruise missiles and low altitude targets including super sonic cruise missiles but I dont know if its engagement envelope fits to target brahmos though. It can track 12 targets which is suitable against a saturation attack. As I know previously more than a decade ago you started a2a missile development jointly with China for Sd10 missile. There were also a2g missile news (H2, H4) around that era developed by Pakistan based on a2a missile development. So Pakistan can develop this type of ground based amraam system.
> 
> For subsonic cruise missiles you have Hq-7 FM90. It has a cheap missile suitable for the task and is enough to protect mobile columns but to protect airbase or nuclear station from a saturation attack a system needs to be developed having a radar that targets and guides many missiles to multiple targets(10+) at the same time. The radar and guidance is difficult but missiles would be cheap in that case.
> 
> Hq 16 can provide medium range cover for all targets be it cruise missiles or aircraft but needs to be coupled with FM90 to protect better against anti radar missiles.
> 
> If you have good shorad you can compensate the lackings of a modernized older long range sam. So instead of copying S300 I will later make analysis about modernising longer range systems like S200 or Sa2 modernized versions



Sir newly acquired LY80 from China perhaps better medium range SAM then Spada. On other hand I doubt that SD10 has any input from Pak, and no official version still available about HQ9 acquisition in past. Further KRL is just few minutes away from Indian occupied Kashmir so I humbly think that LY 80 and SPADA deployed on hilly area along with probable HQ2b still effective enough to counter any IAF/Missile threat. 

HQ9 shall be more effective to safeguard overall Islamabad and our Karachi/Gawadar ports from saturated CM/BM attacks by enemy if acquired.


----------



## vizier

CHI RULES said:


> Sir newly acquired LY80 from China perhaps better medium range SAM then Spada. On other hand I doubt that SD10 has any input from Pak, and no official version still available about HQ9 acquisition in past. Further KRL is just few minutes away from Indian occupied Kashmir so I humbly think that LY 80 and SPADA deployed on hilly area along with probable HQ2b still effective enough to counter any IAF/Missile threat.
> 
> HQ9 shall be more effective to safeguard overall Islamabad and our Karachi/Gawadar ports from saturated CM/BM attacks by enemy if acquired.



You are right LY80 has more altitude and range than Spada but what I am talking about is indigeneous capability specifically for shorads which is easier to build than a missile like LY80-Buk. For shorad though Spada can take care of many kind of threats but ofcourse vulnurable from higher altitudes unlike LY80 which can reach higher and further. However as I know in the past Pakistan had some kind of assistance with China in SD-10 a2a missile development. There were also reports of air launched missiles like H2 and H4 mentioned as steps acquiring bvr. If you have some background research with a2a missiles then developing that kind of low altitude system would be easier and sufficient against cruise missiles, low flying targets. Ofcourse investing on LY-80 and getting indigeneous capability of building a similar system would be another option.


----------



## Zarvan

We need more Air Defense systems Army has already revealed that we are interested in getting S-400 and PANTSIR and IGLA S Manpad but we should also consider a system from Europe. We need to Multi Layer Air Defense systems to keep our Air Space safe and secure


----------



## vizier

Zarvan said:


> We need more Air Defense systems Army has already revealed that we are interested in getting S-400 and PANTSIR and IGLA S Manpad but we should also consider a system from Europe. We need to Multi Layer Air Defense systems to keep our Air Space safe and secure


Yes and some layers of it like shorad can be managed indigeneously in a cost effective manner by local research at least in parallel to procuring the weapons from abroad. This would reduce dependence to foreign sources and in the long run most layers can be managed independantly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

Taha Samad said:


> I guess total stands something like:
> 6 TPS-77
> 5 YLC-2
> 6 TPS-43 (Acquired in 70s/80s)
> 
> 10 YLC-6
> 45 MPDR-45/60/90
> 6 L-88 V3 Aerostat / TARS (Unconfirmed, but great addition to low level capability; with ability to operate at 25K Ft and range of 400Km)
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-plugging-the-gaps.9109/
> 
> 
> --
> 
> http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/02.surv/karte032.en.html



A number of TPS 43s were acquired per paf history 1999-2013 from Middle East users and either converted to spares or added to the sqns so tps-43 number might have gone up

43s were not acquired In 70s not that old but 80/90 era radar 

The 60s model radar were decommissioned in 2010 ish time after 77 and ylc2 were acquired

The only thing left is anti ballistic missile/radar capability which Chinese demo part of Slc 7 radar eq of geeen pine plus a missile system


----------



## Tps43

khanasifm said:


> A number of TPS 43s were acquired per paf history 1999-2013 from Middle East users and either converted to spares or added to the sqns so tps-43 number might have gone up
> 
> 43s were not acquired In 70s not that old but 80/90 era radar
> 
> The 60s model radar were decommissioned in 2010 ish time after 77 and ylc2 were acquired
> 
> The only thing left is anti ballistic missile/radar capability which Chinese demo part of Slc 7 radar eq of geeen pine plus a missile system


6 - 8 tps43G are there the first example was acquired in 80's as u said and for the rest of part u r right also.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Poland is also making air defence radars. One of them is the ZDSPR Bystra AESA radar for VSHORAD and SHORAD systems.

http://en.pitradwar.com/oferta/592,bystra-redeployable-radar

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## syed_yusuf

When check version of hq16 does army operates


----------



## batmannow

tps77 said:


> technical thing .


political & low of traitorship !


----------



## ziaulislam

HRK said:


> radar were not jammed the reasons which were mention in Abbotabad inquiry commission are
> View attachment 438499
> 
> View attachment 438500
> 
> View attachment 438501
> 
> 
> we even picked US F-16s & AWACs inside Afghanistan
> View attachment 438502


so basically Abbott abad military base is not under any radar protection, a helicopter can come do whatever, leave and nobody will notice, infact, even though people heard helicopters noise flying(per eye witnesses) but some how military didnt heard them(even though they were just miles away) as they were some how made deaf by new technology

than helicopter slowly flied away in another 2-3 hours(time taken for them to leave our area) but some how super sonic jet were too slow to catch them

and damn the SAAB AWECs was completely waste of time
i hope next time someone comes to islamabad, as islamabad is just 30 miles from abbotabad

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indus Pakistan

ziaulislam said:


> some how super sonic jet were too slow to catch them


Okay. Your the Pak COAS. PAF F-16 *locks* on US helicopter flying back to Afghanistan.

_PAF F-16 pilot "Hello sir I have lock on. Do I have permission to fire missile"?_


*What do you do?*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## batmannow

HRK said:


> radar were not jammed the reasons which were mention in Abbotabad inquiry commission are
> View attachment 438499
> 
> View attachment 438500
> 
> View attachment 438501
> 
> 
> we even picked US F-16s & AWACs inside Afghanistan
> View attachment 438502


this report , the biggest laughing joke !
bringing stupid & fake reasons just to save a few heads ?
it's all the decision of the former army chief kiyani , who had full knowledge of this event in advance .


----------



## ziaulislam

Kaptaan said:


> Okay. Your the Pak COAS. PAF F-16 *locks* on US helicopter flying back to Afghanistan.
> 
> _PAF F-16 pilot "Hello sir I have lock on. Do I have permission to fire missile"?_
> 
> 
> *What do you do?*


we havent reached that point..
for now PAF saw and heard nothing..

but what would you do with identified and un identified object

pass it by??
hope next time a heli comes and takes PM nawaz, PAF has lock and will ask what should we do
answer: its USA let it go..

i hope next time india does this..
who knows they might have already done surgical strikes
if we can be fooled once why not twice


----------



## batmannow

Kaptaan said:


> Okay. Your the Pak COAS. PAF F-16 *locks* on US helicopter flying back to Afghanistan.
> 
> _PAF F-16 pilot "Hello sir I have lock on. Do I have permission to fire missile"?_
> 
> 
> *What do you do?*


I will order them to land in my aerospace , same as China did with its event when a USA spy plane been detected flying in china's aerospace !
I could go for a , warning shots I'm sure that helos would have been landed back into pakistan .
when there is a will , then you can find always a way .
but when a traitor like kiyani was in charge of the country's security , he I'll go for money & deals cause , that's the drama which was played by WHITEHOUSE moral victory , which also brought , their loyal trusted old ageing agent like , OBL to bahamas, to live a free life .

http://nation.com.pk/23-May-2017/osama-bin-laden-is-still-alive-claims-snowden
for kiyani , it's the best time to make really good free money !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## alimobin memon

khanasifm said:


> A number of TPS 43s were acquired per paf history 1999-2013 from Middle East users and either converted to spares or added to the sqns so tps-43 number might have gone up
> 
> 43s were not acquired In 70s not that old but 80/90 era radar
> 
> The 60s model radar were decommissioned in 2010 ish time after 77 and ylc2 were acquired
> 
> The only thing left is anti ballistic missile/radar capability which Chinese demo part of Slc 7 radar eq of geeen pine plus a missile system


what about tps 77 ?


----------



## Tps43

batmannow said:


> political & low of traitorship !


no not political at all.


----------



## BATMAN

batmannow said:


> I will order them to land in my aerospace , same as China did with its event when a USA spy plane been detected flying in china's aerospace !
> I could go for a , warning shots I'm sure that helos would have been landed back into pakistan .
> when there is a will , then you can find always a way .
> but when a traitor like kiyani was in charge of the country's security , he I'll go for money & deals cause , that's the drama which was played by WHITEHOUSE moral victory , which also brought , their loyal trusted old ageing agent like , OBL to bahamas, to live a free life .
> 
> http://nation.com.pk/23-May-2017/osama-bin-laden-is-still-alive-claims-snowden
> for kiyani , it's the best time to make really good free money !



welcome back batmannow.

I don't agree to the Kiyani part, because technically air defense was responsibility of PAF chief or responsible regional commodore.
All what's leaked to public is that all radars were either switched off or non existent.

OBL no doubt was employee of CIA at some point, even used to receive salary.
Very surely, he was abducted from Tora Bora in initial days of Afghan bombing. They had to go after him as priority because in hands of Pakistani intel. he could have spilled lots of beans.

I also doubt he was given a free life, anywhere. I believe, he was kept alive in custody (anywhere) as long he lived his natural life. If CIA start giving free lives to its covert employees of Pakistani /Arab origins, than they would need cities to build.


----------



## batmannow

BATMAN said:


> welcome back batmannow.
> 
> I don't agree to the Kiyani part, because technically air defense was responsibility of PAF chief or responsible regional commodore.
> All what's leaked to public is that all radars were either switched off or non existent.
> 
> OBL no doubt was employee of CIA at some point, even used to receive salary.
> Very surely, he was abducted from Tora Bora in initial days of Afghan bombing. They had to go after him as priority because in hands of Pakistani intel. he could have spilled lots of beans.
> 
> I also doubt he was given a free life, anywhere. I believe, he was kept alive in custody (anywhere) as long he lived his natural life. If CIA start giving free lives to its covert employees of Pakistani /Arab origins, than they would need cities to build.


thanks bro ,
if u were ever being part of the PAK DEFENCE forces then you , should have known that COAS is the head of command of sea ; air ; & land engagements since decades , specially for any our side agression against pakistan , it will be COAS who will be followed not the air chief or a regional commander

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/942751832329342977


----------



## YeBeWarned

we should have bought Pantsir S1 , as right now there is heavy tension between US and Pakistan.. Russians might agree to sell some Air defense Systems to Pakistan ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Incog_nito

Why not Pakistan works with Turkey or may on its own to create 3 Level of Air Defence systems:
Low-Level: with Short-Range Missiles & AAA Guns
Medium-Level: Missiles similar to LY-80 & Spada-2000
High-Level: Missiles similar to Thaad & S-400

I know, it's not so much easy - but I am 100% sure Pakistan can do this!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

Something i came across while reading some material, Radars Vs Anti-Radiation Missiles and Radars Vs Stealth.

Bistatic and Multistatic Radars 

Any radar, for example, a continuous wave radar, in which electrical isolation requires that the transmitting antenna be physically separate from the receiving antenna might be regarded as of bi-static type. Here, however, the only systems to be considered are those in which the transmitter and receiver are separated by appreciable distances. 

This technique, hitherto hardly used, is presently being examined with renewed interest with a view to wider employment because of the spread of: 
1. More and more effective radar jamming systems; 
2. Anti-radiation missiles (ARMS); 
3. Stealth aircraft. 

When transmitter and receiver are far apart, a jamming signal must be radiated over a very broad angle in order to have a high probability of interfering with reception. However, in this way the jamming power actually radiated 
toward the receiver is substantially reduced, which in turn reduces the effectiveness of the jamming. 

The *advantages of a bi-static radar network against ARMS* may easily be inferred. The separation of transmitter and receiver leads to the establishment of radar networks consisting of M transmitters serving N receivers (N>M). These are multi-static radars. In these networks, the transmitters, widely spaced, may radiate sequentially, disorienting ARM receivers. 

Separation between transmitter and receiver may be beneficial also for *stealth aircraft detection*. In fact, because these aircraft are capable of reducing their RCS mainly in the direction of arrival of the electromagnetic wave, if a stealth aircraft is illuminated from one direction, and the scattered radiation observed from another direction, the low visibility characteristic is substantially degraded. 

Filippo Neri, Introduction to Electronic Defense Systems, Ch. 2, Pages 125-126

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## CriticalThought

Signalian said:


> Something i came across while reading some material, Radars Vs Anti-Radiation Missiles and Radars Vs Stealth.
> 
> Bistatic and Multistatic Radars
> 
> Any radar, for example, a continuous wave radar, in which electrical isolation requires that the transmitting antenna be physically separate from the receiving antenna might be regarded as of bi-static type. Here, however, the only systems to be considered are those in which the transmitter and receiver are separated by appreciable distances.
> 
> This technique, hitherto hardly used, is presently being examined with renewed interest with a view to wider employment because of the spread of:
> 1. More and more effective radar jamming systems;
> 2. Anti-radiation missiles (ARMS);
> 3. Stealth aircraft.
> 
> When transmitter and receiver are far apart, a jamming signal must be radiated over a very broad angle in order to have a high probability of interfering with reception. However, in this way the jamming power actually radiated
> toward the receiver is substantially reduced, which in turn reduces the effectiveness of the jamming.
> 
> The *advantages of a bi-static radar network against ARMS* may easily be inferred. The separation of transmitter and receiver leads to the establishment of radar networks consisting of M transmitters serving N receivers (N>M). These are multi-static radars. In these networks, the transmitters, widely spaced, may radiate sequentially, disorienting ARM receivers.
> 
> Separation between transmitter and receiver may be beneficial also for *stealth aircraft detection*. In fact, because these aircraft are capable of reducing their RCS mainly in the direction of arrival of the electromagnetic wave, if a stealth aircraft is illuminated from one direction, and the scattered radiation observed from another direction, the low visibility characteristic is substantially degraded.
> 
> Filippo Neri, Introduction to Electronic Defense Systems, Ch. 2, Pages 125-126



Although it improves jamming tolerance, it also reduces the signal strength at the receiver, and increases the complexity of correlating between transmitter and receiver. Not an insurmountable challenge, but a challenge nonetheless.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zpak

IM Ozair said:


> Why not Pakistan works with Turkey or may on its own to create 3 Level of Air Defence systems:
> Low-Level: with Short-Range Missiles & AAA Guns
> Medium-Level: Missiles similar to LY-80 & Spada-2000
> High-Level: Missiles similar to Thaad & S-400
> 
> I know, it's not so much easy - but I am 100% sure Pakistan can do this!



Show me the money my friend. Pakistan is struggling with basic debt repayment, it at most can go for a cheap Chinese replacement.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RangeMaster

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1067421920226959360

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tps43

RangeMaster said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1067421920226959360


Project Vision A/C Fazal was handling it but now he's B/C faisal
A/C (R) Shigri late was the man behind it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## salman-1

So this new Ramp system uses both data link 16 and 17. And how much time is required to merge it and flow info to fighters.?


----------



## Tps43

salman-1 said:


> So this new Ramp system uses both data link 16 and 17. And how much time is required to merge it and flow info to fighters.?


Its not new , In place since 2012


----------



## salman-1

Alan warn declared it now, must be a refined and final version in place now called Ramp. As it was not mentioned with this name before.


----------



## Tps43

salman-1 said:


> Alan warn declared it now, must be a refined and final version in place now called Ramp. As it was not mentioned with this name before.


Paf let it make public now
Even SAM's AU units are linked with this and live time MOU's reporting

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mrc

We need better sams


----------



## Tps43

Mrc said:


> We need better sams


We need new low level radars asap.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## salman-1

So does any body know what Paf is about to announce for "Nomination of a new Fighter jet for Paf" it was planned to be announced on 29th November.


----------



## Tps43

just a nice click

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mrc

Tps43 said:


> just a pice click
> View attachment 524144




They shud cover that with a tent


----------



## 1ndy

Mrc said:


> They shud cover that with a tent


wouldn't radio wave bounce back off the tent? just asking a genuine question... thanks in advance.


----------



## Mrc

1ndy said:


> wouldn't radio wave bounce back off the tent? just asking a genuine question... thanks in advance.




Quiet a few ships have sensors covered.. Dint know to b honest... May b a tech can help

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Mrc said:


> They shud cover that with a tent


There's a radom but It was not placed while taking this pic


1ndy said:


> wouldn't radio wave bounce back off the tent? just asking a genuine question... thanks in advance.





Mrc said:


> Quiet a few ships have sensors covered.. Dint know to b honest... May b a tech can help


Radom but it was not in use while I was taking pic

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

Tps43 said:


> I Beg to differ,Crotales are here currently operational/standby with 5 squadrons.
> Talks/work being done to upgrade those crotale batteries by Thales.
> Question Might arise why Crotales are still operational? Because they are filling gaps which Spada Cant fullfill,I wont go into further Details.


So update is Spada also got CAT A ops capability that one bloody Glitch is also resolved some time ago

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRK

Tps43 said:


> that one bloody Glitch


any details ....??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

HRK said:


> any details ....??


One Ops link wasn't working properly but problem lied with Engg guys and some guys from Italy made several trips and in the end it was resolved.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Imran Khan

Tps43 said:


> just a nice click
> View attachment 524144


gorge w bush ko dua do jo TPS-77 de gya 



1ndy said:


> wouldn't radio wave bounce back off the tent? just asking a genuine question... thanks in advance.


ohh bhai its TPS-77 mobile radar but fixed radars have own special made cover which did not effect 

you can see both fixed and mobile TPS-77 radars of PAF here

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

Imran Khan said:


> gorge w bush


ke bete ko 
Lekin bhai jan kammal ka item hai sab logg amrekio ko ragre magr yeh radar sab gunnah maaf kar sakta hai zalim piece hai


----------



## Imran Khan

Tps43 said:


> ke bete ko
> Lekin bhai jan kammal ka item hai sab logg amrekio ko ragre magr yeh radar sab gunnah maaf kar sakta hai zalim piece hai


kamal ki baat ye nhi ke kamal ye hai ke hum ne 6 ura liye

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Imran Khan said:


> kamal ki baat ye nhi ke kamal ye hai ke hum ne 6 ura liye



Aur mazze ki baat 4 aur ki option mojood hai


----------



## Hell hound

Tps43 said:


> just a nice click
> View attachment 524144


you mean jab app jawan they

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Hell hound said:


> you mean jab app jawan they


Saal phele ziya da budha bhi nhi tha


----------



## Imran Khan

Tps43 said:


> Aur mazze ki baat 4 aur ki option mojood hai


forget all options from USA now . jo mila us per shuker karo

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 1ndy

Imran Khan said:


> gorge w bush ko dua do jo TPS-77 de gya
> 
> 
> ohh bhai its TPS-77 mobile radar but fixed radars have own special made cover which did not effect
> 
> you can see both fixed and mobile TPS-77 radars of PAF here


chacha ji Asalam o alaikum,
There's a difference in specially made cover (radome) and a tent.


----------



## Imran Khan

1ndy said:


> chacha ji Asalam o alaikum,
> There's a difference in specially made cover (radome) and a tent.


w.salam 

yes there is diffrent i think guys was just being extra take care of radar .  tent kiyoo lagay phir room main band ker ke na rakh leen ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 1ndy

Imran Khan said:


> w.salam
> 
> yes there is diffrent i think guys was just being extra take care of radar .  tent kiyoo lagay phir room main band ker ke na rakh leen ?


kabaadi me na bech de room mein rakhne se acha?
this is last off topic post of mine. khuda hafiz Imran sir.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Imran Khan said:


> forget all options from USA now . jo mila us per shuker karo


6 bhi kam nhi wese


----------



## Imran Khan

Tps43 said:


> 6 bhi kam nhi wese


too much hain bhai ji



1ndy said:


> kabaadi me na bech de room mein rakhne se acha?
> this is last off topic post of mine. khuda hafiz Imran sir.


these are very long range radars bhai next 30 years they will not be sale to kabari .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Imran Khan said:


> these are very long range radars bhai next 30 years they will not be sale to kabari .


Fps 20 served us more then 50 years


----------



## Imran Khan

Tps43 said:


> Fps 20 served us more then 50 years


that time is passed now Pakistan quickly adoupt tech

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Imran Khan said:


> that time is passed now Pakistan quickly adoupt tech


I am talking with regart to tps77 that they r here to stay for more then 30 years


----------



## silent hawk

TPS -77 along with the ATCRs should take care of the high and medium altitude surveillance.
The challenge is low level. MPDR needs to be replaced.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

silent hawk said:


> TPS -77 along with the ATCRs should take care of the high and medium altitude surveillance.
> The challenge is low level. MPDR needs to be replaced.


U got tps43 and ylc 2 as well for high and medium range .
Every CAS gives a lollipop for replacement of MPDR's but nothing concrete happened till now other then few trails of american and Chinese systems.


----------



## silent hawk

TPS 43 and YLC2 are aging out there is a replacement program for YLC2 but
In the long term TPS-77 and ATCR would survive and should be sufficient.
Low level is where the challenge lies.


----------



## Tps43

silent hawk said:


> TPS 43 and YLC2 are aging out there is a replacement program for YLC2 but
> In the long term TPS-77 and ATCR would survive and should be sufficient.
> Low level is where the challenge lies.


Tps43 is here for another 10 15 years and yes 3 sqn of ylc 2 can be replaced any time.


----------



## silent hawk

Tps43 said:


> Tps43 is here for another 10 15 years and yes 3 sqn of ylc 2 can be replaced any time.


ATCRS are excellent radars as well and should easily last for 10 to 15 years


----------



## Dazzler

Why not replace the MPDRs with more ylc-6? They are pretty decent low level radars anyway?


----------



## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> Why not replace the MPDRs with more ylc-6? They are pretty decent low level radars anyway?


Actually they are more effective medium range radar , YLC 6 = MPDR 90 that is why they have separate sqn not part of GMCC
We need replacement of MPDR45 and MPDR60 MPDR90 ASAP.



silent hawk said:


> ATCRS are excellent radars as well and should easily last for 10 to 15 years


Yes but ATCRs are linked with GMCC's and act as terminal radar for base. but agreed with your post.


----------



## silent hawk

Tps43 said:


> Actually they are more effective medium range radar , YLC 6 = MPDR 90 that is why they have separate sqn not part of GMCC
> We need replacement of MPDR45 and MPDR60 MPDR90 ASAP.
> 
> 
> Yes but ATCRs are linked with GMCC's and act as terminal radar for base. but agreed with your post.



With due respect I think you overrate the YLC-6. The stupid radar had so many integration issues that at one time it seemed it would be phased out without going into operations.


----------



## Tps43

silent hawk said:


> With due respect I think you overrate the YLC-6. The stupid radar had so many integration issues that at one time it seemed it would be phased out without going into operations.


When I think of That 1 YLC-2 at hilltop YLC-6 is much much better.
And u cant talk much against Chinese weapon systems nowadays .
ZDK-03 is an example of it , U probably know about their performance issues I guess.

MPDR's are old but they are real badass systems , Once a MPDR picked up bogie at 31k feet in south punjab and its too much for a LLR


----------



## Dazzler

Tps43 said:


> When I think of That 1 YLC-2 at hilltop YLC-6 is much much better.
> And u cant talk much against Chinese weapon systems nowadays .
> ZDK-03 is an example of it , U probably know about their performance issues I guess.
> 
> MPDR's are old but they are real badass systems , Once a MPDR picked up bogie at 31k feet in south punjab and its too much for a LLR



Thats the problem. Those good for nothing MPDRs will be the first to be jammed in an aggression. Your vintage pulse doplers dont stand a chance, but the ylc-6/ TPS-77 will counter it. Despite shortcomings, the ylc does come with decent anti jamming capability and does not malfunction much. Same goes for ZDK.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> Thats the problem. Those good for nothing MPDRs will be the first to be jammed in an aggression. Your vintage pulse doplers dont stand a chance, but the ylc-6/ TPS-77 will counter it. Despite shortcomings, the ylc does come with decent anti jamming capability and does not malfunction much. Same goes for ZDK.


even tps43 can stand a chance but u do know which radar is had picked 287 times bogies on western border and 13 times scramble. Gone are those days when MPDR's were used to work alone now every GMCC works in loop with 606 wing 
They big issue with MPDR's is their communication with pilots can be heard bu US of A 
but I agree with ur post .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## silent hawk

Tps43 said:


> When I think of That 1 YLC-2 at hilltop YLC-6 is much much better.
> And u cant talk much against Chinese weapon systems nowadays .
> ZDK-03 is an example of it , U probably know about their performance issues I guess.
> 
> MPDR's are old but they are real badass systems , Once a MPDR picked up bogie at 31k feet in south punjab and its too much for a LLR



YLC-2 is high level and YLC - 6 was supposed to be low level but I would categorize it more as a medium level gap filler. I would not compare them. YLC-6 is however better than MPDR 90P
The best low level radars we have are the MPDR 45 and SPADA detection center. 

Pakistan has another excellent low level radar which we have not yet discussed


----------



## Tps43

silent hawk said:


> YLC-2 is high level and YLC - 6 was supposed to be low level but I would categorize it more as a medium level gap filler. I would not compare them. YLC-6 is however better than MPDR 90P
> The best low level radars we have are the MPDR 45 and SPADA detection center.
> 
> Pakistan has another excellent low level radar which we have not yet discussed


VERA passive radar?
Giraffe of AAD?
Yes YLC 6 is more of Medium range radar that's why we have seprate sqn 414 for it.
But I was talking about general Chinese radars


----------



## silent hawk

Tps43 said:


> VERA passive radar?
> Giraffe of AAD?
> Yes YLC 6 is more of Medium range radar that's why we have seprate sqn 414 for it.
> But I was talking about general Chinese radars



Girrafe is an excellent low level radar with a very high update rate.
We have the capability to indigenously upgrade the signal processing of MPDR and Girrafe radars keeping the same mechanical structure.
Improved subclutter visibility along with ECCM features such as frequency hopping and pulse coding could be utilized to provide low level coverage for the next 10 years at affordable costs
Integration with GMCC of Girrafe would not be a problem as we had already integrated it with PADS-77

Are u sure about your 414 Sqn info? To me it is an aging high level Sqn

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

silent hawk said:


> Pakistan has another excellent low level radar which we have not yet discussed



Is it from a European country? I know which one


----------



## Chimgathar

Dazzler said:


> Is it from a European country? I know which one


Senior members keep talking in secret codes and gestures


----------



## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> Is it from a European country? I know which one


Swedish 


Tps43 said:


> Giraffe of AAD?





silent hawk said:


> Girrafe is an excellent low level radar with a very high update rate.
> We have the capability to indigenously upgrade the signal processing of MPDR and Girrafe radars keeping the same mechanical structure.
> Improved subclutter visibility along with ECCM features such as frequency hopping and pulse coding could be utilized to provide low level coverage for the next 10 years at affordable costs
> Integration with GMCC of Girrafe would not be a problem as we had already integrated it with PADS-77
> 
> Are u sure about your 414 Sqn info? To me it is an aging high level Sqn






silent hawk said:


> Girrafe is an excellent low level radar with a very high update rate.
> We have the capability to indigenously upgrade the signal processing of MPDR and Girrafe radars keeping the same mechanical structure.
> Improved subclutter visibility along with ECCM features such as frequency hopping and pulse coding could be utilized to provide low level coverage for the next 10 years at affordable costs
> Integration with GMCC of Girrafe would not be a problem as we had already integrated it with PADS-77
> 
> Are u sure about your 414 Sqn info? To me it is an aging high level Sqn


ADWC guys adore girrafe alot .And in kilo area u got both girrafe and mpdr for coverage.
Somone told me YLC 6 got transfered to 414 for deployment .I can't confirm it
But except 483 I guess all GMCC's have YLC 6 
Maybe 482 hasn't got ylc 6 as well but for 483 I can confirm.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## silent hawk

T


Tps43 said:


> Swedish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADWC guys adore girrafe alot .And in kilo area u got both girrafe and mpdr for coverage.
> Somone told me YLC 6 got transfered to 414 for deployment .I can't confirm it
> But except 483 I guess all GMCC's have YLC 6
> Maybe 482 hasn't got ylc 6 as well but for 483 I can confirm.



The problem is that girrafes are with army air defence and MPDRs are with PAF.
Jointness is a huge issue in our armed forces.
Look at Karachi. We have naval radars, PAF Radars, Army Radars and CAA Radars all in close vicinity with little or no data sharing. Criminal for a poor country like Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tps43

silent hawk said:


> T
> 
> 
> The problem is that girrafes are with army air defence and MPDRs are with PAF.
> Jointness is a huge issue in our armed forces.
> Look at Karachi. We have naval radars, PAF Radars, Army Radars and CAA Radars all in close vicinity with little or no data sharing. Criminal for a poor country like Pakistan.


Absolutely .
If JSC had powers then situation was much much different.
But Alas due to trust deficit we are on wrong path

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

khushbu laga ke..

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## Zarvan

Dazzler said:


> khushbu laga ke..
> 
> View attachment 545472


When on earth SSG started operating Air Defence Systems

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

Zarvan said:


> When on earth SSG started operating Air Defence Systems


You know SSG are volunteers from different arms right?

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Dazzler

@Tps43 

It turns out that your favourite "good for nothing" MPDRs and TPS43s are still "good enough".

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Fahad Khan 2

Tps43 said:


> Absolutely .
> If JSC had powers then situation was much much different.
> But Alas due to trust deficit we are on wrong path


Idts the problem is of jamming if we centralize it. The fate will be same which happened with us during OBL raid. At least that is the official version of failure although I don't buy it. We already knew that what was happening in Abbotabad that night.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> @Tps43
> 
> It turns out that your favourite "good for nothing" MPDRs and TPS43s are still "good enough".


More then good enough recent paf strikes tell us the story



Fahad Khan 2 said:


> Idts the problem is of jamming if we centralize it. The fate will be same which happened with us during OBL raid. At least that is the official version of failure although I don't buy it. We already knew that what was happening in Abbotabad that night.


During obl raid we had zero low level sensor at western border
And as far as other things are concerned well F16 take 6-9 mins in night to scramble but it tool them 1 hr why it took so long is questionable as info was provided very soon

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

Tps43 said:


> More then good enough recent paf strikes tell us the story
> 
> 
> During obl raid we had zero low level sensor at western border
> And as far as other things are concerned well F16 take 6-9 mins in night to scramble but it took them 1 hr why it took so long is questionable as info was provided very soon



We were caught napping. F-16s would be futile, they would have jammed them anyway.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> We were caught napping. F-16s would be futile, they would have jammed them anyway.


We were napping due to our own blunders of not having sensors on west part

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Fahad Khan 2

Tps43 said:


> We were napping due to our own blunders of not having sensors on west part





Dazzler said:


> We were caught napping. F-16s would be futile, they would have jammed them anyway.


I think Zardari statement next day was hint that we knew about raid and the way Obama downplayed his presence in Pakistan also show that PA, Govt and US knew what happened that night. Otherwise if OBL was in Pakistan USA would have totally destroyed us at least with some heavy sanctions.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## batmannow

Dazzler said:


> khushbu laga ke..
> 
> View attachment 545472


Its not whats been deployed recently, that is much bigger and better then that , and more battiers are on the way

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Dazzler said:


> @Tps43
> 
> It turns out that your favourite "good for nothing" MPDRs and TPS43s are still "good enough".



Both need replacement now.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Imran Khan

Zarvan said:


> When on earth SSG started operating Air Defence Systems


You see boss they are not following your instructions

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Both need replacement now.



Even the 43Gs? i thought they were fairly recent?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## princefaisal

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Both need replacement now.


Aselsan Kalkan Aesa radar or Swedish Giraffe 4A radars should be procured as replacement.


----------



## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> Even the 43Gs? i thought they were fairly recent?


43J are recent

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Tps43 said:


> 43J are recent



difference?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## princefaisal

Only AESA radars should be inducted due to strong anti-jamming features.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> difference?


Ex jordanian more advance then G series

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Tps43 said:


> Ex jordanian more advance then G series



Not advanced. Still the same version, ours was FMS, J was built for Jordan. Same technology. Tube Transmitter. Up for replacement.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Boomin' Bomber I.J.

You still believe in that drama?

I mean the OBL Abbottabad drama


----------



## Keysersoze

Zarvan said:


> When on earth SSG started operating Air Defence Systems


Why wouldn't soldiers learn on different types of weapons? Especially special forces soldiers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zulfiqar

Keysersoze said:


> Why wouldn't soldiers learn on different types of weapons? Especially special forces soldiers.



To add to that, SSG operators have used TOW against Indian positions in direct fire role in Siachen (back when it was a hot sector.)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## loanranger

Im 


Boomin' Bomber I.J. said:


> You still believe in that drama?
> 
> I mean the OBL Abbottabad drama


very curious about this drama. Like was it an inside job or were we really complacent cause paf said very bluntly our radars were inactive what really happened ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

Interesting 


The billions Saudi Arabia spends on air defenses may be wasted in the age of drone warfare https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/middleeast/saudi-air-defense-analysis-intl/index.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Thorough Pro

SSG are trained to carry out multiple tasks.



Zarvan said:


> When on earth SSG started operating Air Defence Systems

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

khanasifm said:


> Interesting
> 
> 
> The billions Saudi Arabia spends on air defenses may be wasted in the age of drone warfare https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/middleeast/saudi-air-defense-analysis-intl/index.html


PA knew that drones would be a problem in next century so equipped MBT and APC with 12.7 mm AA guns back in 1965, lol, nah just kidding  Athough yeah M-113's 12.7 mm is supposed to be an Anti Air weapon and all PA's MBT's have 12.7 mm installed above turret.

Due to advent of drones, the AAA (Anti Aircraft Artillery) such as 20 mm, 35 mm, 40 mm Air Defense Guns, mated with radar for guidance and tracking are still needed in Battlefield. Some use even bigger versions, 57 mm and 76 mm.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## S.Y.A

Signalian said:


> PA knew that drones would be a problem in next century so equipped MBT and APC with 12.7 mm AA guns back in 1965, lol, nah just kidding  Athough yeah M-113's 12.7 mm is supposed to be an Anti Air weapon and all PA's MBT's have 12.7 mm installed above turret.
> 
> Due to advent of drones, the AAA (Anti Aircraft Artillery) such as 20 mm, 35 mm, 40 mm Air Defense Guns, mated with radar for guidance and tracking are still needed in Battlefield. Some use even bigger versions, 57 mm and 76 mm.


What about something like the C-RAM?


----------



## Dazzler

Multiple sources mentioning that the FD2000 is either about to be purchased, or the deal has been sealed already.

Reactions: Like Like:
12 | Love Love:
1


----------



## S.Y.A

Dazzler said:


> Multiple sources mentioning that the FD2000 is either about to be purchased, or the deal has been sealed already.


will it be based on hq-9b or the older hq-9?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

Wake us up when we have HQ-9 variants.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

S.Y.A said:


> will it be based on hq-9b or the older hq-9?



https://www.armyrecognition.com/chi...data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## [--Leo--]

i hope its AESA based other wise it would not be very usefull


----------



## TsAr

[--Leo--] said:


> i hope its AESA based other wise it would not be very usefull


 care to elaborate....


----------



## khanasifm

C model is now available ? With active seeker?


----------



## S.Y.A

Dazzler said:


> https://www.armyrecognition.com/chi...data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html


Its the old one. that is sad.


----------



## Taha Samad

Taha Samad said:


> I guess total stands something like:
> 6 TPS-77
> 5 YLC-2
> 6 TPS-43 (Acquired in 70s/80s)
> 
> 10 YLC-6
> 45 MPDR-45/60/90
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-plugging-the-gaps.9109/
> 
> 
> --
> 
> http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/02.surv/karte032.en.html



Add(as per MoDP Yearbook 2017-2018):

5 YLC-18A
and 10 Low Level Radars(type not mentioned)

See OP for screenshots:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/modp-year-book-2017-18.635136/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gryphon

FD-2000

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

Hq-9b is very capable and extended ranged version and 9c will bring active seeker which started few years back not sure how far it’s developed now


----------



## khanasifm

Tbm because to detect farther you need more visibility ?? So in same theatre you can. Monitor, detect and react in time


----------



## time pass

*Pakistan silently acquired Anti-Stealth radar from China*

Anti-Stealth JY-27A radar spotted in Pakistan .... Researchers at Jane's (IHS Markit) have identified a JY-27A CVLO radar in imagery of Mianwali Air Base in Pakistan.

JY-27A is a 3-D long-range air surveillance & guidance radar that is resistant to jamming and is highly reliable and mobile. It is a VHF Radar that uses an active phased array antena. JY-27A is able to detect stealth aircraft in a distance of up to 500 km.

Coupled with JF-17 & FD 2000 this can give PAF a massive punch in the South Asian region....





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=451175432208418


----------



## Signalian

*Monostatic Radar:* if system has only one antenna for transmission and reception.

*Multistatic Radar:* if system has more than one transmission or reception antennae, at different positions.

The majority of radars are monostatic: the same antenna is used for transmission and reception, with a special microwave switch (Duplexer) isolating the receiver during transmission and the transmitter for the remaining time. A subclass of multistatic systems is the bistatic radar, with one transmitting and one receiving antenna, at different positions.

Considering the emission of radiation, radars are divided into active or passive.

*Active systems *include a transmitting antenna, exploiting signal reflections from potential targets, while they may be either monostatic (the usual case) or multistatic. *Passive radars* have only receiving antenna/-e and take advantage of the radiation that is already present in the environment, coming from non-cooperative transmitters. Such sources could be, for example, television, radio or mobile telephony broadcasts. Passive radars are multistatic, since the transmitting antenna is at a different position from the receiving antennae.

*Comparison of Passive with Conventional Radar Systems:*

1. It can provide covert detection - tracking.

2. It is highly likely to reveal stealth targets as it is based on low frequency broadcasts (compared to common air defence radars), while it is multistatic. Note that stealth aircraft have been designed to hide from conventional monostatic radars, mainly aircraft fire control radars, operating in the X-band (8-12 GHz).

3. It involves lower procurement and operating costs, as it does not have a transmitter, which has considerable power consumption, while it is usually based on a TWT - Traveling Wave Tube, with a high replacement cost.

4. It is very difficult to jam.

5. It cannot be targeted by anti-radiation weapons, such as the Raytheon AGM-88 HARM, or loitering munitions such as the IAI HARPY. Furthermore, without a transmitter, which would produce heat due to amplifying elements (either tubes or transistors),it will also exhibit low thermal signature, making it difficult to be targeted by IR systems.

6. It allows easy installation without any licensing, an important benefit in saturated areas, such as an airport, where there are many different emitters.

*However, a passive radar also presents the following disadvantages - constraints:*

1. It presents a certain algorithmic complexity and requires increased processing power.

2. Its effectiveness depends on the relative geometry and existing emissions.

3. It is necessary to deal with synchronization problems between the receivers.

4. There is particular difficulty in measuring the altitude of the target.

5. It depends on non-cooperative emitters.

6. The most important limitation is that it offers limited altitude coverage, because there is not enough radiation to be exploited at higher altitudes (above 10000 – 15000 ft) .

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Pakistan Ka Beta

Dazzler said:


> Multiple sources mentioning that the FD2000 is either about to be purchased, or the deal has been sealed already.


Any update brother ??? or about Pantsir from Russia ???

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## vizier

According to threat specification different missiles are necessary.

Gravity bombs-glide bombs-MiniDroneSwarms: Slower targets need to be countered cheaply and with numbers. Rolling airframe missiles can be considered. These are small missiles having about 10km range. It is infrared and passive rf guided. Glide bombs dont have hot engines and they are smaller not reflecting back much for the rf seeker. Laser guidance can be added in my opinion for these types of threats.









RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Subsonic cruise missiles, supersonic agms: Around mach-3+ missiles like HQ-16 and future local variants would take care of such threats. For slower low alt-cruise missiles Anza- stinger vehicles with ir sensors qued by radar would be a cheaper alternative. HQ-9 and similar would do the protection from longer ranges for such threats.

Hypersonic cruise missiles: Around mach(8-10) missiles like Thaad would be necessary. It needs at least two stage missile to reach that speed or larger single stage missiles like those of S400. Several countries need to come up together like Turkey, Pakistan and Iran to jointly develop such a system within a short amount of time.

ICBM: Around mach-15+ three stage missile like SM-3 with a mini-nuclear warhead(Nasr) would be necessary for terminal defense. Several countries need to come together which must include a nuclear country like Pakistan to develop such a system. Russia has tested a similar system but it looks like a single stage larger missile PRS-1M (45T6) for their A-235 missile defense system.





__





A-235 anti-ballistic missile system - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Vapnope

Pakistan Ka Beta said:


> Any update brother ??? or about Pantsir from Russia ???


Wasn't it shown in parade this year?


----------



## airbus101

Joint chiefs of Staff Committee visited Army Air Defense Range near Karachi today

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GriffinsRule

airbus101 said:


> Joint chiefs of Staff Committee visited Army Air Defense Range near Karachi today


What are the Chinese doing there?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airbus101

GriffinsRule said:


> What are the Chinese doing there?


May be they Are witnessing ly-80 but I will ask u a better question what are those Arabs doing there?


----------



## Philip the Arab

airbus101 said:


> May be they Are witnessing ly-80 but I will ask u a better question what are those Arabs doing there?


Timestamp? I can't seem to find what you are talking about.

Maybe they invited the Saudis to stay and watch exercise after ACES meet?


----------



## gangsta_rap

Philip the Arab said:


> Timestamp? I can't seem to find what you are talking about.



i don't think they are qatari - but they are sitting beside other foreign dignitaries (chinese) and I haven't seen pakistanis wearing blue berets:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Goritoes

airbus101 said:


> May be they Are witnessing ly-80 but I will ask u a better question what are those Arabs doing there?



I'll do you one better, What are those Pakistani's doing there

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Philip the Arab

gangsta_rap said:


> i don't think they are qatari - but they are sitting beside other foreign dignitaries (chinese) and I haven't seen pakistanis wearing blue berets:
> 
> View attachment 731888


Saudi?

Maybe they were invited to stay and watch after ACES meet

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gangsta_rap

Philip the Arab said:


> Saudi?
> 
> Maybe they were invited to stay and watch after ACES meet
> View attachment 731891


that's probably them. the breast badge matches up along with the font for the name badge:


----------



## GriffinsRule

Philip the Arab said:


> Saudi?
> 
> Maybe they were invited to stay and watch after ACES meet
> View attachment 731891


The guy in the back is a Brit? He has a Typhoon badge on.


----------



## Thorough Pro

guests to air defence exercises



airbus101 said:


> May be they Are witnessing ly-80 but I will ask u a better question what are those Arabs doing there?


----------



## Philip the Arab

GriffinsRule said:


> The guy in the back is a Brit? He has a Typhoon badge on.


Unrelated image, was trying to find a uniform for the RSAF but yes I assume he is a Brit.


----------



## khanasifm

Announcement was made by paf former chief so what ever it is, is paf related and most probably paf air defense command which actually handles all air defense elements including army and navy assets
pak or paf air defense command is overall umbrella ☔ for all air defense assets, there is a c2 which integrates all assets even caa aor traffic radars and in the loop

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## khanasifm

5 HQ-9 or long range system would cover pretty much whole airspace or major population Centers with some ares left to medium short range

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

khanasifm said:


> 5 HQ-9 or long range system would cover pretty much whole airspace or major population Centers with some ares left to medium short range
> 
> View attachment 732584



You would want 7-8 for reasons of redundancy and reaction times... 5 is bare minimum..

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## khanasifm



Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## khanasifm

HQ-19 Anti-Ballistic Missile Interceptor







errymath.blogspot.com


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Is hq9 medium range??


----------



## TOPGUN

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Is hq9 medium range??



Its medium to long range.


----------



## farooqbhai007

Vera NG , ZDK-03 , DA-20 , ERIEYE
Imo we never got see any pic of the vera , wonder what other similar systems paf has

Reactions: Like Like:
9 | Love Love:
3


----------



## FuturePAF

farooqbhai007 said:


> View attachment 763310
> 
> View attachment 763311
> 
> Vera NG , ZDK-03 , DA-20 , ERIEYE
> Imo we never got see any pic of the vera , wonder what other similar systems paf has
> 
> View attachment 763312



Hope one day they add a few HAVASOJ to the EW squadron

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khanasifm

farooqbhai007 said:


> View attachment 763310
> 
> View attachment 763311
> 
> Vera NG , ZDK-03 , DA-20 , ERIEYE
> Imo we never got see any pic of the vera , wonder what other similar systems paf has
> 
> View attachment 763312


These patches official or fan made ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Thorough Pro

joint exercises with some active and some observing participants




airbus101 said:


> May be they Are witnessing ly-80 but I will ask u a better question what are those Arabs doing there?


----------



## farooqbhai007

farooqbhai007 said:


> View attachment 763310
> 
> View attachment 763311
> 
> Vera NG , ZDK-03 , DA-20 , ERIEYE
> Imo we never got see any pic of the vera , wonder what other similar systems paf has
> 
> View attachment 763312










The stuff you find in old videos . Vera Passive system shown next to Spada , MDPR & TPS-77 on a wall of PAF

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## farooqbhai007

via https://twitter.com/isipuppet from twitter
A model of TPS-77MRR was showcased at the PAC Kamra Stall at the Dubai Air Show 2021,
After asking the representatives present at the stall it is reported that the Avionics Production Factory is set to locally produce TPS-77 MRR Radars. 
Seems to confirm what pdf user TPS-43G had said a few years back and its very likely that first batch of TPS-77MRR ( would be / has been ) delivered from USA while the remaining bulk radars would be produced locally.

Reactions: Like Like:
12 | Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## HRK

farooqbhai007 said:


> View attachment 793202
> 
> via https://twitter.com/isipuppet from twitter
> A model of TPS-77MRR was showcased at the PAC Kamra Stall at the Dubai Air Show 2021,
> After asking the representatives present at the stall it is reported that the Avionics Production Factory is set to locally produce TPS-77 MRR Radars.
> Seems to confirm what pdf user TPS-43G had said a few years back and its very likely that first batch of TPS-77MRR ( would be / has been ) delivered from USA while the remaining bulk radars would be produced locally.


could you plz post the complete pic .... (if possible for you)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

HRK said:


> could you plz post the complete pic .... (if possible for you)


The user who posted the picture is back from the expo today and he didnt take any more pics , he will go to the expo tomorrow to take some more pics.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Akh1112

HRK said:


> could you plz post the complete pic .... (if possible for you)



I took a quick one on my way out as we were discussing it together, I went to check whether I read it right, so I took a picture quickly to show farooq, I’ll go tomorrow and take a proper one, or if not, I’m gonna see if the people I know are still there and get them to take one

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## HRK

Akh1112 said:


> I took a quick one on my way out as we were discussing it together, I went to check whether I read it right, so I took a picture quickly to show farooq, I’ll go tomorrow and take a proper one, or if not, I’m gonna see if the people I know are still there and get them to take one


thanks a lot ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

farooqbhai007 said:


> Factory is set to locally produce TPS-77 MRR Radars.


So USA is providing us TPS 77MMR with TOT?


----------



## Ali_Baba

farooqbhai007 said:


> View attachment 793202
> 
> via https://twitter.com/isipuppet from twitter
> A model of TPS-77MRR was showcased at the PAC Kamra Stall at the Dubai Air Show 2021,
> After asking the representatives present at the stall it is reported that the Avionics Production Factory is set to locally produce TPS-77 MRR Radars.
> Seems to confirm what pdf user TPS-43G had said a few years back and its very likely that first batch of TPS-77MRR ( would be / has been ) delivered from USA while the remaining bulk radars would be produced locally.



Wow - USA providing TOT for the manufacture of Radars in Pakistan - it .. just .. doesn't ... sound .. right...

If only first batch were delivered - it sounds more like sanctions kicked in and the Americans refused to honour another contract that they had signed with Pakistan ..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## arjunk

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow - USA providing TOT for the manufacture of Radars in Pakistan - it .. just .. doesn't ... sound .. right...
> 
> If only first batch were delivered - it sounds more like sanctions kicked in and the Americans refused to honour another contract that they had signed with Pakistan ..



Our relations with the US are not as bad as most believe. But they aren't as good as during the first cold war.


----------



## farooqbhai007

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow - USA providing TOT for the manufacture of Radars in Pakistan - it .. just .. doesn't ... sound .. right...
> 
> If only first batch were delivered - it sounds more like sanctions kicked in and the Americans refused to honour another contract that they had signed with Pakistan ..


can you read . 
Is PAC retarded that are showcasing that they are going to be making TPS-77 radars locally at Air Show today


----------



## Ali_Baba

farooqbhai007 said:


> can you read .
> Is PAC retarded that are showcasing that they are going to be making TPS-77 radars locally at Air Show today



So - what is being fabricated at PAC? The model of the TPS-77, the radome, or the radars themselves ? Which is the most logical and which is the least logical ? Induction of the TPS-77 was _completed _in the mid-2000's






AN/TPS-77 – Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance







missiledefenseadvocacy.org





USA sharing radar manufacturing technology under a ToT framework with Pakistan(!) makes no sense when the contract was signed in the early 2000's since it was not announced as part of the original contract, and makes even less sense now given the state of relations and the American's approach to South Asia. There has been no followup contract with new terms that suggest TOT for this radar.

What we need is facts and not random twitter make believe ..


----------



## farooqbhai007

Ali_Baba said:


> So - what is being fabricated at PAC? The model of the TPS-77, the radome, or the radars themselves ? Which is the most logical and which is the least logical ? Induction of the TPS-77 was _completed _in the mid-2000's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AN/TPS-77 – Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> missiledefenseadvocacy.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA sharing radar manufacturing technology under a ToT framework with Pakistan(!) makes no sense when the contract was signed in the early 2000's since it was not announced as part of the original contract, and makes even less sense now given the state of relations and the American's approach to South Asia. There has been no followup contract with new terms that suggest TOT for this radar.
> 
> What we need is facts and not random twitter make believe ..


Its TPS-77 MRR that is being locally produced , not the original TPS-77 , search it up , First TPS-77MRR was built in 2018.
Secondly its not twitter , Arsalan went to the Dubai Air Show today , where he took a pic of the model displyed at PAC's Stall and asked the PAC representative from Avionics Production factory , who then told him that PAC was going to be locally producing TPS-77 MRR radars soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kursed

No way PAC is making these locally.


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> So USA is providing us TPS 77MMR with TOT?





kursed said:


> No way PAC is making these locally.


They're probably assembling knock-down kits. IIRC being told that we did the same thing for the MPDRs back in the day. Nothing special though. Sadly, PAC used the exact wrong phrasing, and that too at the Dubai Air Show. 

We Pakistanis think "marketing" is about the showbazi -- colours, graphics, ads, etc -- but have no clue that there's a lot of technical work involved. No appreciation for analytics, buyer personas, and (in this case) most importantly, messaging rules.

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pretty modest setup

Looks slightly better below







Need something larger , to employ *10,000 *Engineers / officers , multiple locations *4-5 Location*

Centralized View over the skies
Air Space violation detection 360 , across Pakistan Air Space, alert system to notify Airforce
Missile Launch Detection
Counter measure with SAM
Space View of Ground (Intelligence capture)

The idea is good just need *"bigger scale"*



Something like this is better setup

Reactions: Like Like:
9 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> They're probably assembling knock-down kits. IIRC being told that we did the same thing for the MPDRs back in the day. Nothing special though. Sadly, PAC used the exact wrong phrasing, and that too at the Dubai Air Show.
> 
> We Pakistanis think "marketing" is about the showbazi -- colours, graphics, ads, etc -- but have no clue that there's a lot of technical work involved. No appreciation for analytics, buyer personas, and (in this case) most importantly, messaging rules.



Thanks - more logical - ie assembly of SKDs than manufacturing than what some here are saying..


----------



## kursed

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> They're probably assembling knock-down kits. IIRC being told that we did the same thing for the MPDRs back in the day. Nothing special though. Sadly, PAC used the exact wrong phrasing, and that too at the Dubai Air Show.
> 
> We Pakistanis think "marketing" is about the showbazi -- colours, graphics, ads, etc -- but have no clue that there's a lot of technical work involved. No appreciation for analytics, buyer personas, and (in this case) most importantly, messaging rules.


I believe the fabricating at PAC was meant just for the model. But good to see that TPS 77 MRR just got confirmed.


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> They're probably assembling knock-down kits. IIRC being told that we did the same thing for the MPDRs back in the day. Nothing special though. Sadly, PAC used the exact wrong phrasing, and that too at the Dubai Air Show.


 Don’t mind the PAC, DEPO is even worse.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Pretty modest setup
> 
> Looks slightly better below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Need something larger , to employ *10,000 *Engineers / officers , multiple locations *4-5 Location*
> 
> Centralized View over the skies
> Air Space violation detection 360 , across Pakistan Air Space, alert system to notify Airforce
> Missile Launch Detection
> Counter measure with SAM
> Space View of Ground (Intelligence capture)
> 
> The idea is good just need *"bigger scale"*
> 
> 
> 
> Something like this is better setup


lel the existing system is more than sufficient , everything is already deep underground at more locations than you can count on both sides of the border

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HaMoTZeMaS

Dazzler said:


> the real deal...
> 
> 
> View attachment 337637
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337640
> 
> 
> View attachment 337646
> 
> 
> View attachment 337647
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337650


i guess these should be confidential No?


----------



## Akh1112

kursed said:


> I believe the fabricating at PAC was meant just for the model. But good to see that TPS 77 MRR just got confirmed.
> Don’t mind the PAC, DEPO is even worse.
> 
> View attachment 793339



I too suspect the model was fabricated there, however why would they make a model at the avionics production factory and not somewhere like APF or MRF where the have machining gear or whatnot etc

And yea DEPO was pretty shit, the whole detachment sent here aside from the ARF guys seemed like they couldn’t care less

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kursed

Akh1112 said:


> I too suspect the model was fabricated there, however why would they make a model at the avionics production factory and not somewhere like APF or MRF where the have machining gear or whatnot etc
> 
> And yea DEPO was pretty shit, the whole detachment sent here aside from the ARF guys seemed like they couldn’t care less


Must be using one of their new 3D printers or something, hence... just a guess on my part. I am albeit much more interested in the confirmation of the radar type with us.


----------



## jupiter2007

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Pretty modest setup
> 
> Looks slightly better below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Need something larger , to employ *10,000 *Engineers / officers , multiple locations *4-5 Location*
> 
> Centralized View over the skies
> Air Space violation detection 360 , across Pakistan Air Space, alert system to notify Airforce
> Missile Launch Detection
> Counter measure with SAM
> Space View of Ground (Intelligence capture)
> 
> The idea is good just need *"bigger scale"*
> 
> 
> 
> Something like this is better setup



need to have multiple DR/backup sites.


----------



## sparten

kursed said:


> No way PAC is making these locally.


I mean, yes that’s the only sensible position on that matter. 
But, not much of the TPS77 purchase made much sense. The US almost forced us to buy it, snice it can track Ballistic missiles and they wanted to “reduce the threat of accidental nuclear war”, a major policy initiative in that era.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


----------



## mingle

kursed said:


> I believe the fabricating at PAC was meant just for the model. But good to see that TPS 77 MRR just got confirmed.
> Don’t mind the PAC, DEPO is even worse.
> 
> View attachment 793339


@Tps43 confirmed delivery few months back but never mentioned local assembly Good news anyway

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## farooqbhai007

mingle said:


> @Tps43 confirmed delivery few months back but never mentioned local assembly Good news anyway


TPS43 also mentioned that we have Vera radars in service and a lot of other things but people be like we can't believe it without evidence and then when the news comes of some thing new they be like oh wow never knew this before.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Akh1112

Well boys, we will find out soon. I’m getting ready to head out there again

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
2


----------



## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Akh1112 said:


> Well boys, we will find out soon. I’m getting ready to head out there again


Bhai dekhna wahan pe GIDS b hai k nahi?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CombatSurgeon

jupiter2007 said:


> need to have multiple DR/backup sites.


 We have many backup sites. Some are mobile as well!


sparten said:


> I mean, yes that’s the only sensible position on that matter.
> But, not much of the TPS77 purchase made much sense. The US almost forced us to buy it, snice it can track Ballistic missiles and they wanted to “reduce the threat of accidental nuclear war”, a major policy initiative in that era.


 Unfortunately, the ballistic missile tracking software was omitted from the TPS-77 radars supplied to Pakistan. So these are your regular vanilla radars!


----------



## sparten

CombatSurgeon said:


> Unfortunately, the ballistic missile tracking software was omitted from the TPS-77 radars supplied to Pakistan. So these are your regular vanilla radars!


Got a source, since what I have read the Americans were very concerned about the lack of early warning, leading to an accidental nuclear war the 2002 escalation.


----------



## CombatSurgeon

sparten said:


> Got a source, since what I have read the Americans were very concerned about the lack of early warning, leading to an accidental nuclear war the 2002 escalation.


 In Indo-Pak scenario, radar-based early warning would be of no significance in the context of preventing or starting a nuclear war. Missile TOF would be too miniscule once the track is spotted during its mid-course/terminal phase. Major powers use a multi-sensor system for such events, and their concept of early warning is supposed to give them ample time before the warheads impact. That is approx. 25 mins plus for Russia and US. And they practice the concept of 'Launch on Warning'- as soon as the launch is detected by satellite-based IR and confirmed by radar telemetry, their respective forces release their shots on pre-determined targets according to the assumed defense posture at the time of hostile launch.
In our region, we would most likely rely on HUMINT warning about the movement of hostile missile units, observed troop preparations, and then buttressed by a radar warning if the shots fly off. Our radars would assist any anti-missile systems to tackle the incoming weapons already in flight.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Bhai dekhna wahan pe GIDS b hai k nahi?


No Gids stall , Probably because Gids is keeping its product to showcase them at Egyptian def expo later this month including a Armed Shahpar 2.








Via @isipuppet from twitter
It is Not the original TPS77 since that has much larger size , this seems to be like a TPS77MRR but with slightly more number of more antennas.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

farooqbhai007 said:


> No Gids stall , Probably because Gids is keeping its product to showcase them at Egyptian def expo later this month including a Armed Shahpar 2.


Will we see with which missile they will arm Shahpar?


----------



## farooqbhai007

farooqbhai007 said:


> No Gids stall , Probably because Gids is keeping its product to showcase them at Egyptian def expo later this month including a Armed Shahpar 2.
> View attachment 793437
> 
> View attachment 793438
> 
> Via @isipuppet from twitter
> It is Not the original TPS77 since that has much larger size , this seems to be like a TPS77MRR but with slightly more number of more antennas.


Also arslan just confirmed PAC is not producing TPS77MRR , but they confirmed they have received MRR variant and that they will be overhauling it at PAC APF.
Also according to arslan there was a visit by a large Hensoldt delegation to PAC stall , and for those who don't know Hensoldt was supplying spare parts for siemens mdpr , and the Hensoldt radars were being trialed by PAF a few years earlier as mdpr replacement as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal.

farooqbhai007 said:


> Also arslan just confirmed PAC is not producing TPS77MRR , but they confirmed they have received MRR variant and that they will be overhauling it at PAC APF.
> Also according to arslan there was a visit by a large Hensoldt delegation to PAC stall , and for those who don't know Hensoldt was supplying spare parts for siemens mdpr , and the Hensoldt radars were being trialed by PAF a few years earlier as mdpr replacement as well.


Can you clarify. Received as in inducted into service?


----------



## Akh1112

Bilal. said:


> Can you clarify. Received as in inducted into service?


What I was told was that they are overhauling the TPS77MRR and I confirmed with him, there’s two variants a TPS77 and a MRR in case he was Confused, telling him one was a new updated variant and he said it’s the MRR variant.

And yes, there was a very very large Hendsholt delegation meeting PAC and PAF officials in their meeting room, when they left eberyone stopped what whey were doing and waited for them to leave, escorting them

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Bilal.

Akh1112 said:


> What I was told was that they are overhauling the TPS77MRR and I confirmed with him, there’s two variants a TPS77 and a MRR in case he was Confused, telling him one was a new updated variant and he said it’s the MRR variant.
> 
> And yes, there was a very very large Hendsholt delegation meeting PAC and PAF officials in their meeting room, when they left eberyone stopped what whey were doing and waited for them to leave, escorting them


So it’s safe to say the 10 unnamed radars from MODP year book were indeed MRRs.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Basel

farooqbhai007 said:


> Its TPS-77 MRR that is being locally produced , not the original TPS-77 , search it up , First TPS-77MRR was built in 2018.
> Secondly its not twitter , Arsalan went to the Dubai Air Show today , where he took a pic of the model displyed at PAC's Stall and asked the PAC representative from Avionics Production factory , who then told him that PAC was going to be locally producing TPS-77 MRR radars soon.



What's the difference between both??


----------



## farooqbhai007

Basel said:


> What's the difference between both??


TPS77MRR
More compact and Multi mission system with improved electronics and GaN tech and it can switch between a Long Range Surveillance mode of 463km or a Low Level Target detection mode of 150km.
Also it is meant to be air transportable so only two iso 20ft size containers for the entire system ( Radar antenna + Ops shelter ).

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Gripen9

kursed said:


> I believe the fabricating at PAC was meant just for the model. But good to see that TPS 77 MRR just got confirmed.
> Don’t mind the PAC, DEPO is even worse.
> 
> View attachment 793339


Idiots spelled "Organization" wrong!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Haha Haha:
2 | Angry Angry:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

Gripen9 said:


> Idiots spelled "Organization" wrong!!!!



They said they will be overhauling TPS77MRR in the near future. See below post >



Akh1112 said:


> What I was told was that they are overhauling the TPS77MRR and I confirmed with him, there’s two variants a TPS77 and a MRR in case he was Confused, telling him one was a new updated variant and he said it’s the MRR variant.
> 
> And yes, there was a very very large Hendsholt delegation meeting PAC and PAF officials in their meeting room, when they left eberyone stopped what whey were doing and waited for them to leave, escorting them

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal.

farooqbhai007 said:


> They said they will be overhauling TPS77MRR in the near future. See below post >


Is it normal to overhaul it only couple of years after induction though?


----------



## Gripen9

Bilal. said:


> Is it normal to overhaul it only couple of years after induction though?


First overhaul usually happens fairly late.


farooqbhai007 said:


> They said they will be overhauling TPS77MRR in the near future. See below post >


MRR have only recently been inducted < 2 years. If PAC is thinking about setting up MRO type facility, that is great news.


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Akh1112 said:


> What I was told was that they are overhauling the TPS77MRR and I confirmed with him, there’s two variants a TPS77 and a MRR in case he was Confused, telling him one was a new updated variant and he said it’s the MRR variant.
> 
> And yes, there was a very very large Hendsholt delegation meeting PAC and PAF officials in their meeting room, when they left eberyone stopped what whey were doing and waited for them to leave, escorting them


Can you find out which division? Hensoldt Radars (from Germany) or Hensoldt Optronics South Africa (HOSA)?


----------



## kursed

Gripen9 said:


> Idiots spelled "Organization" wrong!!!!


Yep. That too at such an event. Just goes on to show how ‘professional’ the entire effort is.


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Can you find out which division? Hensoldt Radars (from Germany) or Hensoldt Optronics South Africa (HOSA)?


 Makes sense for Hensoldt to sit with PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cookie Monster

Gripen9 said:


> Idiots spelled "Organization" wrong!!!!





kursed said:


> Yep. That too at such an event. Just goes on to show how ‘professional’ the entire effort is.


They could literally have a number of us PDF enthusiasts volunteer for such basic things...
...free labor...which IMO at least won't lead to such embarrassment as with misspelled words or 7 feet length of JF17. A lot of PDFers know at least the basic stuff.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SQ8

Cookie Monster said:


> They could literally have a number of us *PDF enthusiasts volunteer for such basic things*...
> ...free labor...which IMO at least won't lead to such embarrassment as with misspelled words or 7 feet length of JF17. A lot of PDFers know at least the basic stuff.


Then what would that person justify their hours for?
Need to make the grade for the daily Samosa Chai quota.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Pak Nationalist

kursed said:


> Must be using one of their new 3D printers or something, hence... just a guess on my part. I am albeit much more interested in the confirmation of the radar type with us.


Are we talking about the industrial-scale FDM 3D printers or desktop ones?


----------



## Cookie Monster

SQ8 said:


> Then what would that person justify their hours for?
> Need to make the grade for the daily Samosa Chai quota.


They can run the clock for their hours and not bother with the abysmal quality of work...
...rather they should go all in...mooch off of someone else's labor....collect their paycheck...
...and at least that way the country wouldn't be embarrassed at an international event...while the cost would be the same(these kinds of ppl collecting their paycheck).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gripen9

Cookie Monster said:


> They could literally have a number of us PDF enthusiasts volunteer for such basic things...
> ...free labor...which IMO at least won't lead to such embarrassment as with misspelled words or 7 feet length of JF17. A lot of PDFers know at least the basic stuff.


Reminds me of this..
PAF C-130 in RAITT after the earthquake of 2005. They misspelled "Grateful".

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Cookie Monster said:


> They could literally have a number of us PDF enthusiasts volunteer for such basic things...
> ...free labor...which IMO at least won't lead to such embarrassment as with misspelled words or 7 feet length of JF17. A lot of PDFers know at least the basic stuff.





SQ8 said:


> Then what would that person justify their hours for?
> Need to make the grade for the daily Samosa Chai quota.


A boss of mine once said:

_ "Even if I scratch my a***, sniff my fingers, and use those fingers to make something... the end product will still be less sh***ier than what I see here."_​

Reactions: Haha Haha:
5


----------



## SQ8

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> A boss of mine once said:
> 
> _ "Even if I scratch my a***, sniff my fingers, and use those fingers to make something... the end product will still be less sh***ier than what I see here."_​


Well - a woman did falsify temperature test results for Submarine steel here but the key difference is that there was accountability.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Akh1112

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Can you find out which division? Hensoldt Radars (from Germany) or Hensoldt Optronics South Africa (HOSA)?



Unfortunately not, I just saw them leaving as I was having a discussion with someone over there


----------



## ziaulislam

farooqbhai007 said:


> TPS77MRR
> More compact and Multi mission system with improved electronics and GaN tech and it can switch between a Long Range Surveillance mode of 463km or a Low Level Target detection mode of 150km.
> Also it is meant to be air transportable so only two iso 20ft size containers for the entire system ( Radar antenna + Ops shelter ).


May be its assembly
I doubt we have capabilities or a fab to produce it
Such a shame that our economy has lagged behind so much simply because we want to import everything

I cant even find a local tissue paper brand..it comes from china

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Angry Angry:
1


----------



## Akh1112

ziaulislam said:


> May be its assembly
> I doubt we have capabilities or a fab to produce it
> Such a shame that our economy has lagged behind so much simply because we want to import everything
> 
> I cant even find a local tissue paper brand..it comes from china


It’s MRO


----------



## HRK

ziaulislam said:


> May be its assembly
> I doubt we have capabilities or a fab to produce it
> Such a shame that our economy has lagged behind so much simply because we want to import everything
> 
> I cant even find a local tissue paper brand..it comes from china


Though I generally agree with the basic point of your post that we are way behind than many other economies of the region especially in the technology related industries, but would differ with the example you have given .... bhai there are many factories .... some of which now use chinese name and style of packaging .... plz itna tu giya guzra na samjoo even google can lead you to some local big names other than 100s small scale

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## Vapnope

ziaulislam said:


> I cant even find a local tissue paper brand..it comes from china


Rose petal is biggest in terms of market share i.e. 62% and it is a local brand and being manufactured from pulp production to final product.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

Vapnope said:


> Rose petal is biggest in terms of market share i.e. 62% and it is a local brand and being manufactured from pulp production to final product.


In the 1990s eveeything from toys to shoes to paper uaed to be pakistani
Last 20 years the share of pakistani products on consumer market has dropped dramtically
Almost all plastic products are now smuglled from china so is paper


Vapnope said:


> Rose petal is biggest in terms of market share i.e. 62% and it is a local brand and being manufactured from pulp production to final product.


Huge amount of products are smuggled in KPK region from afghanistan simply becauae local industry cant compete
Even through regulat channels paper is one of the biggest import

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vapnope

ziaulislam said:


> In the 1990s eveeything from toys to shoes to paper uaed to be pakistani
> Last 20 years the share of pakistani products on consumer market has dropped dramtically
> Almost all plastic products are now smuglled from china so is paper
> 
> Huge amount of products are smuggled in KPK region from afghanistan simply becauae local industry cant compete
> Even through regulat channels paper is one of the biggest import


Yes over the years our manufacturing muscles has reduced and consecutive govts have not done enough to protect domestic players.


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reichmarshal

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 797682


Should we consider them inducted now ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

Reichmarshal said:


> Should we consider them inducted now ?


Evidence is there in sat imagery as well , while no radars itself are visible but a number of "purely MDPR Radar sites" have had new ramp with dome constructed which coincides with the tender in which they wanted domes for the TPS77MMR.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

From the 2017-2018 Procurment file released by MODP
We didnt get to see what these SHORAD systems were , the deal is about the same amount as the 5 YLC18As so the SHORADs are probably not MANPAD mounts , any idea on what these were

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

farooqbhai007 said:


> TPS77MRR
> More compact and Multi mission system with improved electronics and GaN tech and it can switch between a Long Range Surveillance mode of 463km or a Low Level Target detection mode of 150km.
> Also it is meant to be air transportable so only two iso 20ft size containers for the entire system ( Radar antenna + Ops shelter ).


How many PAF wants??


----------



## farooqbhai007

So seems like the 5 x YLC-18A were pruchased to replace the 5 x TPS-43G/J PAF operates , While the 10? x TPS-77MRR are meant as replacement of some amount of MDPR ,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

YLC-18A are operational now but tps havent arrived yet

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Abid123

Does Pakistan have any OTH radar?


----------



## SQ8

Abid123 said:


> Does Pakistan have any OTH radar?


Yes - its called Saab 2000 and it has a radar which it takes high up to see over the horizon

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## farooqbhai007

Abid123 said:


> Does Pakistan have any OTH radar?


None , don't see a need either , PAF has ample amount of long range radars along the coast



SQ8 said:


> Yes - its called Saab 2000 and it has a radar which it takes high up to see over the horizon


He is referring to the ground based OTH radars which are large static radars with extremely long ranges

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Abid123

farooqbhai007 said:


> None , don't see a need either , PAF has ample amount of long range radars along the coast


Do you know the range of those long range radars we have? Can they detect stealth fighters?


----------



## farooqbhai007

Abid123 said:


> Do you know the range of those long range radars we have? Can they detect stealth fighters?


1. TPS77(470km) & YLC18A(300km+) are the long range assets deployed along the coast.

2. This a joke , While normally detecting stealth fighters is a capability the chinese and russian often claim but isnt actually present in the system. But no neither of these YLC18 or TPS77 have that capability.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tps43

farooqbhai007 said:


> TPS43 also mentioned that we have Vera radars in service and a lot of other things but people be like we can't believe it without evidence and then when the news comes of some thing new they be like oh wow never knew this before.


And the thing is I always mention these things once they are confirmed. Whatever I said regarding new procurement months/years ago stands corrected today.

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## farooqbhai007

Tps43 said:


> And the thing is I always mention these things once they are confirmed. Whatever I said regarding new procurement months/years ago stands corrected today.


Mubarakan barey arsey baad hazir huwey , please shed some light on the upcoming Desi maal as well. I don't want to be the first to break the news.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

Tps43 said:


> And the thing is I always mention these things once they are confirmed. Whatever I said regarding new procurement months/years ago stands corrected today.


Any news about more ameriki Maal?


----------



## Mentee

farooqbhai007 said:


> I don't want to be the first to break the news.



Pehly aap


----------



## Tps43

farooqbhai007 said:


> Mubarakan barey arsey baad hazir huwey , please shed some light on the upcoming Desi maal as well. I don't want to be the first to break the news.


Sir u can break the news , I don’t wanna burn my wings that level is beyond my reach for now :)))

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## YeBeWarned

Tps43 said:


> Sir u can break the news , I don’t wanna burn my wings that level is beyond my reach for now :)))


oye itne dino baad? kia news laye ho is baar ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

Tps43 said:


> Sir u can break the news , I don’t wanna burn my wings that level is beyond my reach for now :)))


Phir parade ka intezaar hi hul hai.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zarvan

farooqbhai007 said:


> Phir parade ka intezaar hi hul hai.


Former Air Chief mentioned Pakistan inducting a Air Defence system. Any reports on that ? @Tps43


----------



## HRK

Tps43 said:


> Sir u can break the news , I don’t wanna burn my wings that level is beyond my reach for now :)))


because of this post of yours I am restraining myself to PM you .....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## farooqbhai007

tab tak aap log YLC-18A enjoy karo from southern sector ( top left ), Open source picture from google earth ( radar site that has already been shared by twitter accounts before when it had tps43 )






All 5 YLC-18A are deployed now i think

Reactions: Like Like:
7 | Love Love:
1


----------



## HRK

farooqbhai007 said:


> tab tak aap log YLC-18A enjoy karo from southern sector ( top left ), Open source picture from google earth ( radar site that has already been shared by twitter accounts before when it had tps43 )
> View attachment 818125
> 
> 
> All 5 YLC-18A are deployed now i think


BTW the Desi Mal which you are referring to is related to Air Defence ... ??


----------



## Bilal.

HRK said:


> because this post of yours I am restraining myself to PM you .....


He had mentioned a mid ranged indigenous system in the class of Spada a while back.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## farooqbhai007

HRK said:


> BTW the Desi Mal which you are referring to is related to Air Defence ... ??


yaar thora wait karlo different systems hain , parade tak wait karo phir full news bata doon ga agar parade par kuch na dikhaya , hint is there in tps43 extremely old posts of one of the systems



Bilal. said:


> He had mentioned a mid ranged indigenous system in the class of Spada a while back.


tps43 might know something about that , but the info i have doesnt include this spada type thingy ,

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Bilal.

farooqbhai007 said:


> yaar thora wait karlo different systems hain , parade tak wait karo phir full news bata doon ga agar parade par kuch na dikhaya , hint is there in tps43 extremely old posts of one of the systems
> 
> 
> tps43 might know something about that , but the info i have doesnt include this spada type thingy ,


I meant range class. In medium range category.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## farooqbhai007

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Yar bas itna bata de k koi cheez desi b hai?


yes all systems are desi

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Former Air Chief Mujhaid Anwar Khan gave interview few months before his retirement in which he mentioned that Pakistan Air Force will induct an Air Defence system within a year and is thinking to inducting a new fighter jet. That fighter jet which they were supposedly thinking is J-10 C but where is that Air Defence system which PAF was going to induct within a year ?

@Windjammer @Tipu7 @Zephyrus @Sulman Badshah @PanzerKiel @The Eagle


----------



## farooqbhai007

Zarvan said:


> Former Air Chief Mujhaid Anwar Khan gave interview few months before his retirement in which he mentioned that Pakistan Air Force will induct an Air Defence system within a year and is thinking to inducting a new fighter jet. That fighter jet which they were supposedly thinking is J-10 C but where is that Air Defence system which PAF was going to induct within a year ?
> 
> @Windjammer @Tipu7 @Zephyrus @Sulman Badshah @PanzerKiel @The Eagle


wo syshtem late ho gaya hai i think or paf is keeping it under cover for now

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## farooqbhai007

The Eagle said:


> .....................


please elaborate a little


----------



## [--Leo--]

Are we developing any radar with R & D? or just ToT?


----------



## hassan1

MARCONI TYPE 13 RADAR in PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## osamajan1

Aoa guyx please help me about avionic test literlly confused i am an electrical engineer?


----------



## Tps43

mingle said:


> Any news about more ameriki Maal?


Ameriki Maal is up now time for a different maal now ;$



Zarvan said:


> Former Air Chief mentioned Pakistan inducting a Air Defence system. Any reports on that ? @Tps43


3 Air defense systems have been inducted in last 3-4 years time frame so indeed it’s true.



farooqbhai007 said:


> Phir parade ka intezaar hi hul hai.


Next major thing sahid iss parade mein nazar na ayee apko next mein ayee ge

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Tps43

YeBeWarned said:


> oye itne dino baad? kia news laye ho is baar ?


Kiya messenger rakha hai mujhe haal ahwal bhi poch lete hein but anyways this time I do have lil bit news but many are fishing nowadays so let’s keep it smooth for now

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## HRK

Bilal. said:


> He had mentioned a mid ranged indigenous system in the class of Spada a while back.


We are listing about this system from ages .... ab tu dill karta hai khud hi aik CIgrate bar ker pee lay aur SAM ban hjaye ....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


----------



## JamD

farooqbhai007 said:


> Mubarakan barey arsey baad hazir huwey , please shed some light on the upcoming Desi maal as well. I don't want to be the first to break the news.


@Bilal Khan (Quwa)


----------



## farooqbhai007

Tps43 said:


> Ameriki Maal is up now time for a different maal now ;$
> 
> 
> 3 Air defense systems have been inducted in last 3-4 years time frame so indeed it’s true.
> 
> 
> Next major thing sahid iss parade mein nazar na ayee apko next mein ayee ge


Sir jee was referring to desi maal similar to amreeki maal ( which was inducted ), I thought they would show that in this parade.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
2


----------



## Zarvan

Tps43 said:


> Ameriki Maal is up now time for a different maal now ;$
> 
> 
> 3 Air defense systems have been inducted in last 3-4 years time frame so indeed it’s true.
> 
> 
> Next major thing sahid iss parade mein nazar na ayee apko next mein ayee ge


Sir those inductions are by Army not Air Force. PAF chief mentioned induction by Air Force


----------



## YeBeWarned

Tps43 said:


> Kiya messenger rakha hai mujhe haal ahwal bhi poch lete hein but anyways this time I do have lil bit news but many are fishing nowadays so let’s keep it smooth for now


han han yaar, soucha tha phir bas zehen se nikal gaya. Chalo tum se phir messenger pe hi baat kerta hun. waise acha hai active tu hue tum, mujhe to laga ke...


----------



## SQ8

Tps43 said:


> Kiya messenger rakha hai mujhe haal ahwal bhi poch lete hein but anyways this time I do have lil bit news but many are fishing nowadays so let’s keep it smooth for now


As a I ride back this rainy Islamabad morning from a gup I suggest utter silence is the best policy leaving it all to OSINT. Even the gupping is restrained but the gist is that our tea drinkers across the border are making a lot of efforts as well but their old issue of complex integration and disjointed training will make for very shiny but half baked solutions especially in BVR.
Best to leave it for another day of Modi going “Ye hota tu woh hota”

Reactions: Like Like:
14 | Love Love:
2


----------



## YeBeWarned

SQ8 said:


> As a I ride back this rainy Islamabad morning from a gup I suggest utter silence is the best policy leaving it all to OSINT. Even the gupping is restrained but the gist is that our tea drinkers across the border are making a lot of efforts as well but their old issue of complex integration and disjointed training will make for very shiny but half baked solutions especially in BVR.
> Best to leave it for another day of Modi going “Ye hota tu woh hota”


Did you notice or have any news regarding any new EW/jamming systems from the neighbors ? just out of curiosity, it makes me wonder what Indians are upto these days when it comes to AD.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SQ8

YeBeWarned said:


> Did you notice or have any news regarding any new EW/jamming systems from the neighbors ? just out of curiosity, it makes me wonder what Indians are upto these days when it comes to AD.


No - I am on a personal hello and generally such defense topics come up in side talk. I don’t like asking questions that delve on opsec and since my interests are primarily in flying I usually discuss the same with a pilot.

Reactions: Like Like:
5 | Love Love:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

SQ8 said:


> As a I ride back this rainy Islamabad morning from a gup I suggest utter silence is the best policy leaving it all to OSINT. Even the gupping is restrained but the gist is that our tea drinkers across the border are making a lot of efforts as well but their old issue of complex integration and disjointed training will make for very shiny but half baked solutions especially in BVR.
> Best to leave it for another day of Modi going “Ye hota tu woh hota”


Raja jee aap dhoondney waley bano , open source mey hi itna zyada data para hai cheezon ka , key aap ki soch hai.


----------



## SQ8

farooqbhai007 said:


> Raja jee aap dhoondney waley bano , open source mey hi itna zyada data para hai cheezon ka , key aap ki soch hai.


Na bhai, apne shauq sirf doston aur buzurgun ke ehwal poochne tak mehdood hain. Ab ye university wale larke karien talaash ya purane chawalien marne wale bakwas karien. Ham apni tasalli mein hi khush hain ke bhaktorun ki pen di siri hojaye gi chahe woh Rafale le ayien ya lightening ya Brahmos chorhien.

Reactions: Like Like:
5 | Love Love:
2 | Haha Haha:
3


----------



## Tps43

SQ8 said:


> As a I ride back this rainy Islamabad morning from a gup I suggest utter silence is the best policy leaving it all to OSINT. Even the gupping is restrained but the gist is that our tea drinkers across the border are making a lot of efforts as well but their old issue of complex integration and disjointed training will make for very shiny but half baked solutions especially in BVR.
> Best to leave it for another day of Modi going “Ye hota tu woh hota”


Absolutely spot on! 
They are making efforts but have some other non ops issues . Sometimes having too much in bag and don’t know what is the right place for right thing can also be a headache



Zarvan said:


> Sir those inductions are by Army not Air Force. PAF chief mentioned induction by Air Force


I am talking about 3 AD inductions happened in paf since last 3-4 years . 

P.S : We will be learning few tricks in future as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
4


----------



## Tps43

farooqbhai007 said:


> Sir jee was referring to desi maal similar to amreeki maal ( which was inducted ), I thought they would show that in this parade.


This be a last minute call . It all depends upon the availability of maal.
Currently all sensors are occupied.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

YeBeWarned said:


> Did you notice or have any news regarding any new EW/jamming systems from the neighbors ? just out of curiosity, it makes me wonder what Indians are upto these days when it comes to AD.


Shuru aap ney EW sey kiya aur khatam AD par ja kar , aakhir kehna kya chatey ho.
Anyhow Indians have several type of sigint systems but let's not go into details of that , regarding ELINT though the Indians operate the following 
Indian Army :
Himshakti system (for mountain ops)
Samyukta ( has ELINT sensors )
Indra ELINT-FD system

Indian Air force :
GBMES (Himshakti version for IAF)

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## YeBeWarned

farooqbhai007 said:


> Shuru aap ney EW sey kiya aur khatam AD par ja kar , aakhir kehna kya chatey ho.
> Anyhow Indians have several type of sigint systems but let's not go into details of that , regarding ELINT though the Indians operate the following
> Indian Army :
> Himshakti system (for mountain ops)
> Samyukta ( has ELINT sensors )
> Indra ELINT-FD system
> 
> Indian Air force :
> GBMES (Himshakti version for IAF)


Somewhere along the lines of that we are adding goodies to our side, I am sure Indians are doing the same, EW i mentioned with respect to our Blk 3's and J-10's, and AD's with respect to fighters and CM/BM.


----------



## farooqbhai007

See full thread 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501515921655046145
@PanzerKiel @JamD @Tps43



farooqbhai007 said:


> Sir jee was referring to desi maal similar to amreeki maal ( which was inducted ), I thought they would show that in this parade.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
4 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501521572078788608
Ab door door sey awaam Jo wesay forum par soyi hoti hai yahan ayey gey proof mangney in 3 2 1
Where is proof ??? I don't believe it ???

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
4


----------



## Bilal.

farooqbhai007 said:


> See full thread
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501515921655046145
> @PanzerKiel @JamD @Tps43


15W GaN TRM in R&D?

Post in thread 'Research Papers: Pakistani Aerospace Technologies'
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/research-papers-pakistani-aerospace-technologies.726340/post-13432747

Credit @JamD

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Tps43 said:


> Absolutely spot on!
> They are making efforts but have some other non ops issues . Sometimes having too much in bag and don’t know what is the right place for right thing can also be a headache
> 
> 
> I am talking about 3 AD inductions happened in paf since last 3-4 years .
> 
> P.S : We will be learning few tricks in future as well.


I hope you are right and I hope we see them soon.


----------



## TsAr

farooqbhai007 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501521572078788608
> Ab door door sey awaam Jo wesay forum par soyi hoti hai yahan ayey gey proof mangney in 3 2 1
> Where is proof ??? I don't believe it ???


Ais proof proof ki waja sa many people don't share news here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bratva



Reactions: Like Like:
6 | Love Love:
3


----------



## farooqbhai007

Bratva said:


> View attachment 822599
> View attachment 822600
> View attachment 822601
> View attachment 822602


These EW systems are under PA and don't belong in this thread. Apart from first image

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## farooqbhai007

YLC8E acquisition revealed.




PAF TPS77 simple version 

Chinese s300 was also shown but according to source its HQ9B being bought by paf

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Dreamer.

farooqbhai007 said:


> Chinese s300 was also shown but according to source its HQ9B being bought by paf


Isn't that already bought by PA AD?


----------



## farooqbhai007

Dreamer. said:


> Isn't that already bought by PA AD?


So ? PAF is also buying it now ,


----------



## Dreamer.

farooqbhai007 said:


> So ? PAF is also buying it now ,


Although it doesn't matter that much since either way it belongs to pakistan. However, I was just wondering if its appearance in the recent PAF video is the only source for this conclusion? Because in that case it's not reliable at all.
But if you have other reliable source then perhaps you could be right.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bleek

Dreamer. said:


> Although it doesn't matter that much since either way it belongs to pakistan. However, I was just wondering if its appearance in the recent PAF video is the only source for this conclusion? Because in that case it's not reliable at all.
> But if you have other reliable source then perhaps you could be right.


Wondering the same thing

Seems like people are jumping to conclusions, how are they so sure we've purchased it or if it's even the same radar they claim? 

Better to wait for an official statement.


----------



## Dreamer.

Bleek said:


> Wondering the same thing
> 
> Seems like people are jumping to conclusions, how are they so sure we've purchased it or if it's even the same radar they claim?
> 
> Better to wait for an official statement.


Actually my post was about the HQ-9 AD system which Pakistan already has, be it with PA or PAF. But sure you can discuss about the radar also. I'd say it didn't appear without any reason.


----------



## Bleek

Dreamer. said:


> Actually my post was about the HQ-9 AD system which Pakistan already has, be it with PA or PAF. But sure you can discuss about the radar also. I'd say it didn't appear without any reason.


Fair enough, but yeah I don't see it as concrete enough to confirm an acquisition, just images shown


----------



## farooqbhai007

Dreamer. said:


> Although it doesn't matter that much since either way it belongs to pakistan. However, I was just wondering if its appearance in the recent PAF video is the only source for this conclusion? Because in that case it's not reliable at all.
> But if you have other reliable source then perhaps you could be right.





Bleek said:


> Wondering the same thing
> 
> Seems like people are jumping to conclusions, how are they so sure we've purchased it or if it's even the same radar they claim?
> 
> Better to wait for an official statement.



1. PAF never officially revealed Vera , TPS77MRR or the YLC18A systems neither did they give a hint of these systems , all of which are operational , ab jis radar ka wo hint dey rahey hain wo reliable nahi hai wa bhai wa.
2. JY27A at mianwali purely came for testing and left the base later that year.
3. Yes the HQ9B claim is based on internal sources as the PAF video shows a PLA S300/S400 Launcher.
4. All UAVs shown in video are already operational , WL2 was spotted in sat imagery , TB2 was filmed flying in a video and Akinci is known to be here according to Turkish sources.
5. Now while YLC8E and HQ9B are necessarily not here yet , does not mean they will not be inducted in extremely near future, PAF only showed those systems which it has ordered.
6. This video is as official as it gets , what do you want a letter from PAF delivered to your home saying we are buying this certain system .

Reactions: Like Like:
15 | Love Love:
2


----------



## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

farooqbhai007 said:


> 1. PAF never officially revealed Vera , TPS77MRR or the YLC18A systems neither did they give a hint of these systems , all of which are operational , ab jis radar ka wo hint dey rahey hain wo reliable nahi hai wa bhai wa.
> 2. JY27A at mianwali purely came for testing and left the base later that year.
> 3. Yes the HQ9B claim is based on internal sources as the PAF video shows a PLA S300/S400 Launcher.
> 4. All UAVs shown in video are already operational , WL2 was spotted in sat imagery , TB2 was filmed flying in a video and Akinci is known to be here according to Turkish sources.
> 5. Now while YLC8E and HQ9B are necessarily not here yet , does not mean they will not be inducted in extremely near future, PAF only showed those systems which it has ordered.
> 6. This video is as official as it gets , what do you want a letter from PAF delivered to your home saying we are buying this certain system .


No pic of desi radars ☹️
May be they are still in prototype stage


----------



## nomi007



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rafi

All air defence assets wether with the army, navy of airforce are under the command of the airforce.

Reactions: Like Like:
7 | Love Love:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

farooqbhai007 said:


> 1. PAF never officially revealed Vera , TPS77MRR or the YLC18A systems neither did they give a hint of these systems , all of which are operational , ab jis radar ka wo hint dey rahey hain wo reliable nahi hai wa bhai wa.
> 2. JY27A at mianwali purely came for testing and left the base later that year.
> 3. Yes the HQ9B claim is based on internal sources as the PAF video shows a PLA S300/S400 Launcher.
> 4. All UAVs shown in video are already operational , WL2 was spotted in sat imagery , TB2 was filmed flying in a video and Akinci is known to be here according to Turkish sources.
> 5. Now while YLC8E and HQ9B are necessarily not here yet , does not mean they will not be inducted in extremely near future, PAF only showed those systems which it has ordered.
> 6. This video is as official as it gets , what do you want a letter from PAF delivered to your home saying we are buying this certain system .


What about that satellite over North America though??


----------



## mudas777

farooqbhai007 said:


> 1. PAF never officially revealed Vera , TPS77MRR or the YLC18A systems neither did they give a hint of these systems , all of which are operational , ab jis radar ka wo hint dey rahey hain wo reliable nahi hai wa bhai wa.
> 2. JY27A at mianwali purely came for testing and left the base later that year.
> 3. Yes the HQ9B claim is based on internal sources as the PAF video shows a PLA S300/S400 Launcher.
> 4. All UAVs shown in video are already operational , WL2 was spotted in sat imagery , TB2 was filmed flying in a video and Akinci is known to be here according to Turkish sources.
> 5. Now while YLC8E and HQ9B are necessarily not here yet , does not mean they will not be inducted in extremely near future, PAF only showed those systems which it has ordered.
> 6. This video is as official as it gets , what do you want a letter from PAF delivered to your home saying we are buying this certain system .



Why can't we just simply tell everything about the acquisitions, locations, capabilities and the boys addresses who operate them and make Indian/Western/and non friendly agencies redundant. Probably send them the bill for doing their jobs, saving them the money and ask for the rebate. 
There are limits for the defence related information to be officially released by any country forces and Pakistan forces are no exception as there are security implications. We all get excited with the new inductions but certain details are kept away from us for our country security so we must all respect that.

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

PAF YLC18A (YLC6 and RAC3D in background)

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Bratva

They didnt reveal tps77 MRR ? @farooqbhai007

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Bratva said:


> They didnt reveal tps77 MRR ? @farooqbhai007


In addition to the TPS77 MRR, the PAF also didn't reveal at least 2 other systems it already has.

Reactions: Like Like:
11 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## v9s

Bratva said:


> They didnt reveal tps77 MRR ? @farooqbhai007


I definitely heard the announcer mention it.


----------



## Raja Porus

v9s said:


> I definitely heard the announcer mention it.


Not MRR version

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Super Falcon

. We must induct two new air defence system to get proper umbrella of air defence system


----------



## farooqbhai007

Super Falcon said:


> . We must induct two new air defence system to get proper umbrella of air defence system


Now like come on you just make videos with no sense , When did PAF say they are inducting CAMM/HISAR , the only news is regarding PAF inducting HQ9B as shown in the PAF video in near future. And PA's HQ9P were delivered and operational back in 2020 its been like 2 years now.

While in the other UAV thread you're information is incomplete and wrong , Akinci drones have already been inducted and we operate WL1 in addition to WL2 and CH4.


----------



## FuturePAF

Perhaps the PA/PAF are waiting for the active radar seeker HQ-9C to complete its development before indicating more systems. A system that will match the capabilities of the S-400.


----------



## farooqbhai007

FuturePAF said:


> Perhaps the PA/PAF are waiting for the active radar seeker HQ-9C to complete its development before indicating more systems. A system that will match the capabilities of the S-400.


One question but why . PA has been constantly inducting batteries of HQ9P since late 2019 i think. PAF had given priority to jets and have ordered the HQ9B which will arrive soon. HQ9B development was complete like half a decade ago , doesnt take the chinese that long to make a new seeker and neither is PAF ordering those.


----------



## Goritoes

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> In addition to the TPS77 MRR, the PAF also didn't reveal at least 2 other systems it already has.


Which other 2 system bhai ? heart attack do gay kia hum gareebon ko !!!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## FuturePAF

farooqbhai007 said:


> One question but why . PA has been constantly inducting batteries of HQ9P since late 2019 i think. PAF had given priority to jets and have ordered the HQ9B which will arrive soon. HQ9B development was complete like half a decade ago , doesnt take the chinese that long to make a new seeker and neither is PAF ordering those.


The Chinese have to meet their demands before they can clear it for export, so we may see nearly a decade from the time they finish development till Pakistan can buy the system. Also, IMHO, the PAF is building up layered defenses (between ever more capable but more expensive Jets and SAMs) in an economical manner, so it can maximize the capabilities it can afford. It can always go back and increase in numbers if the money becomes available, but getting a new system and becoming proficient in it as soon as possible will maintain technological parity with the enemy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## farooqbhai007

FuturePAF said:


> The Chinese have to meet their demands before they can clear it for export, so we may see nearly a decade from the time they finish development till Pakistan can buy the system. Also, IMHO, the PAF is building up layered defenses (between ever more capable but more expensive Jets and SAMs) in an economical manner, so it can maximize the capabilities it can afford. It can always go back and increase in numbers if the money becomes available, but getting a new system and becoming proficient in it as soon as possible will maintain technological parity with the enemy.


PLA has already started fielding a new type of HQ9 with a new FCR Radar and new Search Radar since late 2020.


----------



## FuturePAF

farooqbhai007 said:


> PLA has already started fielding a new type of HQ9 with a new FCR Radar and new Search Radar since late 2020.



It might still be in trials, and might not be revealed until it matches or exceeds the S-400 (@400 km Max range) and the SM-6 (@370 km Max range). With an active seeker, the missile will be uncoupled from the ground radar, and with a two-way datalink it maybe able to use radar data from other platforms like an AWACS or low earth orbit satellite to get the missile close enough for its own seeker to find, fix, and eliminate the target. So, IMHO, the PAF is waiting for China to work out not just the missile but the kill chain, and buy it when it is ready.


So we might see it in our air defense inventory by the end of the decade, as the Chinese will have a need to fit it to their frontline dozens of destroyers in their Navy and the dozens of frontline ground batteries on the coast. This will probably take the next 5 years, after which we might see some batteries sold to Pakistan by 2028-2029.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cookie Monster

farooqbhai007 said:


> Now like come on you just make videos with no sense , When did PAF say they are inducting CAMM/HISAR , the only news is regarding PAF inducting HQ9B as shown in the PAF video in near future. And PA's HQ9P were delivered and operational back in 2020 its been like 2 years now.
> 
> While in the other UAV thread you're information is incomplete and wrong , Akinci drones have already been inducted and we operate WL1 in addition to WL2 and CH4.


Is there a reason Pak is operating so many different types of drones that are seemingly similar in capabilities? Like for example WL1/WL2, CH4, TB2...while also having Shahpar(slightly less capable than those) and working on a MALE drone under Azm? It seems like an inefficient approach. Wouldn't it be better to trial the competing products...and go for one in larger numbers? Or just use those resources to develop either Shahpar further...or the MALE drone under Azm project?


----------



## Abramar

Cookie Monster said:


> Is there a reason Pak is operating so many different types of drones that are seemingly similar in capabilities? Like for example WL1/WL2, CH4, TB2...while also having Shahpar(slightly less capable than those) and working on a MALE drone under Azm? It seems like an inefficient approach. Wouldn't it be better to trial the competing products...and go for one in larger numbers? Or just use those resources to develop either Shahpar further...or the MALE drone under Azm project?


I'm assuming the TB2 and WL2 drone will be procured so that they can take them apart and learn lessons from them, which in turn will be used to develop better indigenous solutions.



Abramar said:


> I'm assuming the TB2 and WL2 drone will be procured so that they can take them apart and learn lessons from them, which in turn will be used to develop better indigenous solutions.


Either that or they needed a stopgap solution till Shahpar 2 production kicks up, to deal with emerging threats.


----------



## farooqbhai007

Cookie Monster said:


> Is there a reason Pak is operating so many different types of drones that are seemingly similar in capabilities? Like for example WL1/WL2, CH4, TB2...while also having Shahpar(slightly less capable than those) and working on a MALE drone under Azm? It seems like an inefficient approach. Wouldn't it be better to trial the competing products...and go for one in larger numbers? Or just use those resources to develop either Shahpar further...or the MALE drone under Azm project?


Yes it does seem like a inefficient approach when u dont any research and just go on do comments without reading any threads or finding out the roles of each UAV.


PA & PN both only operate CH4 UAVs , where as the PAF operates the Shahpar 2 & TB-2 as Small armed UAVs and WL2 as a heavy strike UAV , while the PAC's MALE UAV which is going to be using some parts from Anka (hence the tot) is going to fill the gap between TB2/SH2 & WL2 as the PAC MALE UAV is in similar class to CH4. Whereas a handful WL1s are operated by Minitry of Interior most probably .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## princefaisal

farooqbhai007 said:


> PAF YLC18A (YLC6 and RAC3D in background)
> 
> View attachment 826565


Is this RAC3D radar dedicated for only SPADA-2000 system?


----------



## Cookie Monster

farooqbhai007 said:


> Yes it does seem like a inefficient approach when u dont any research and just go on do comments without reading any threads or finding out the roles of each UAV.
> 
> 
> PA & PN both only operate CH4 UAVs , where as the PAF operates the Shahpar 2 & TB-2 as Small armed UAVs and WL2 as a heavy strike UAV , while the PAC's MALE UAV which is going to be using some parts from Anka (hence the tot) is going to fill the gap between TB2/SH2 & WL2 as the PAC MALE UAV is in similar class to CH4. Whereas a handful WL1s are operated by Minitry of Interior most probably .


U don't have to be passive aggressive about it...if u really were that bothered by my lack of knowledge then shouldn't have answered...if u were going to answer anyways...then u could've just done it in a nice manner(without any need of ur first paragraph).

Still I appreciate u taking the time to answer

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Sad Sad:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> In addition to the TPS77 MRR, the PAF also didn't reveal at least 2 other systems it already has.


Are you talking about radars or Air Defence systems ?


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## hassan1



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Super Falcon

S


farooqbhai007 said:


> Now like come on you just make videos with no sense , When did PAF say they are inducting CAMM/HISAR , the only news is regarding PAF inducting HQ9B as shown in the PAF video in near future. And PA's HQ9P were delivered and operational back in 2020 its been like 2 years now.
> 
> While in the other UAV thread you're information is incomplete and wrong , Akinci drones have already been inducted and we operate WL1 in addition to WL2 and CH4.


IR akinci induction came last year Chinese CH were been used by than TB 2 drone info came as news


----------



## Great Janjua

farooqbhai007 said:


> Akinci drones have already been inducted a


Not as of yet.


----------



## Super Falcon

PAF choose same H q air defence system is a blunder because we need to diversify our air defence umbrella by complementing air defence systemsthis is why Russia USA Israel don't rely one air defence system they have different types to complement each other's weakness

If enemy find out HQ 9 weaknesses we don't have anything to counter enemies aggression 






We need different classes air defences not similar


----------



## Yasser76

Super Falcon said:


> PAF choose same H q air defence system is a blunder because we need to diversify our air defence umbrella by complementing air defence systemsthis is why Russia USA Israel don't rely one air defence system they have different types to complement each other's weakness
> 
> If enemy find out HQ 9 weaknesses we don't have anything to counter enemies aggression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need different classes air defences not similar



They also have SPADA 2000


----------



## farooqbhai007

Looks like PAF has upgraded its entire network of front line radars to TPS77MRR , 27 x TPS77MRR being delivered as per @Tps43 earlier post.

But MPDR are still active at some TPS77MRR sites , meaning TPS77MRR is not replacement for them rather new layer of air def bubble supporting MDPR layer.
According to certain other sources PAF has acquired MPDR replacement as well , let's see when then those pop up.
TPS43 radars also yet to be replaced , but I think we will probably replace those will local alternative.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Super Falcon

Yasser76 said:


> They also have SPADA 2000


But it's medium range ADS


----------



## R Wing

Is the PAF more professional because it isn't involved in king-making, musical chairs, and politics in general?


----------



## Pak Nationalist

FuturePAF said:


> Perhaps the PA/PAF are waiting for the active radar seeker HQ-9C to complete its development before indicating more systems. A system that will match the capabilities of the S-400.


If HQ-9C matches S-400's capability, why is PLA using S-400?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## FuturePAF

Pak Nationalist said:


> If HQ-9C matches S-400's capability, why is PLA using S-400?


They bought S-400 before they finished the HQ-9C.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

Pak Nationalist said:


> If HQ-9C matches S-400's capability, why is PLA using S-400?


PLA uses the S-400 in a very limited capacity and mostly for analysis and reverse engineering much like the Su-35.Legacy S-300 systems dominate the mix but are being replaced by HQ-9 series in numbers.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Gripen9

Tps43 said:


> Maybe *482* hasn't got ylc 6 as well but for 483 I can confirm.



My abba commanded 482 back in the day  when it was called CRC wing.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

btw ylc6 have been freed up in most places by tps77mrr large scale deployment now , which is good since ylc-6 are single vehicle systems which are highly mobiles ones, easy to move , hide & deploy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hassan1

https://www.pac.org.pk/radar-overhaul

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## farooqbhai007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551958425474670592@Tps43 could u clarify exact type names for the variants

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## farooqbhai007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558513418566615040

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

farooqbhai007 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558513418566615040


Any idea about future indigenous radar .... ???


----------



## Signalian

farooqbhai007 said:


> PLA has already started fielding a new type of HQ9 with a new FCR Radar and new Search Radar since late 2020.


Should have been interesting what PAF deduced from the Vera radar design to give its inputs.


----------



## farooqbhai007

FuturePAF said:


> It might still be in trials, and might not be revealed until it matches or exceeds the S-400 (@400 km Max range) and the SM-6 (@370 km Max range). With an active seeker, the missile will be uncoupled from the ground radar, and with a two-way datalink it maybe able to use radar data from other platforms like an AWACS or low earth orbit satellite to get the missile close enough for its own seeker to find, fix, and eliminate the target. So, IMHO, the PAF is waiting for China to work out not just the missile but the kill chain, and buy it when it is ready.
> 
> 
> So we might see it in our air defense inventory by the end of the decade, as the Chinese will have a need to fit it to their frontline dozens of destroyers in their Navy and the dozens of frontline ground batteries on the coast. This will probably take the next 5 years, after which we might see some batteries sold to Pakistan by 2028-2029.


Nope its not in trials its fielded on mass scale at most of the HQ9 sites since 2020.

Chinese offer more things for export than any nation , do you know the there are 4+ FCRs alone available for export with HQ9 with 2 of these being much more advanced than ones in PLA inventory. 
Even HQ16 has a newer FCR unveiled in 2018 that has much better capabilities than the older FCR that both PLA & PA use , yet PLA hasn't adopted the new FCR but have offered it for export.



Signalian said:


> Should have been interesting what PAF deduced from the Vera radar design to give its inputs.


PAF Vera's are old now, for several years now Vera NG has been marketed and has been sold to some ME&A region customer as well. Chinese well far ahead in passive radar tech so don't think they need inputs on Vera.

Chinese have a whole network along the entire coast made up of purely passive radar systems (same passive radar Also exported as part of CHL906 EW system that we purchased  ) , and that is in addition to the other various types of passive radars they have in large quantities.

Reactions: Love Love:
4


----------



## FuturePAF

farooqbhai007 said:


> Nope its not in trials its fielded on mass scale at most of the HQ9 sites since 2020.
> 
> Chinese offer more things for export than any nation , do you know the there are 4+ FCRs alone available for export with HQ9 with 2 of these being much more advanced than ones in PLA inventory.
> Even HQ16 has a newer FCR unveiled in 2018 that has much better capabilities than the older FCR that both PLA & PA use , yet PLA hasn't adopted the new FCR but have offered it for export.
> 
> 
> PAF Vera's are old now, for several years now Vera NG has been marketed and has been sold to some ME&A region customer as well. Chinese well far ahead in passive radar tech so don't think they need inputs on Vera.
> 
> Chinese have a whole network along the entire coast made up of purely passive radar systems (same passive radar Also exported as part of CHL906 EW system that we purchased  ) , and that is in addition to the other various types of passive radars they have in large quantities.


I will agree they do offer more options and more ways to customize systems then any other. The reference I was looking at the time of that post said it was still in development, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that information was outdated and the missile has already been deployed to the frontline units. Chinese military modernization nowadays is akin to the speed of technological innovation seen only during WW2. Generational shifts in a matter of a few years.

Also, the economies of scale make them the most price competitive. But that price competitiveness is also what makes many underestimate their products. That was the same folly people made about American weapons a century ago, and the US eclipsed the Europeans.


----------



## farooqbhai007

Abid123 said:


> Our air defence system is a joke. We dont even have a single OTH radar.


ok kiddo u seem to be obessed with oth radars , how many countries exactly have these oth radars , please look it up.
Russia , China , Iran & Algeria are the only ones with oth radars operational , now compare there land size with pakistan. OTH radars are only for those countries that have large land masses requiring radars with ranges that normal radars cant fullfill.

secondly please do some research based on panzerkiel's figure of about PA AD having 12 regiments of HQ9/HQ16 in service is equal to 24 batteries total given we take 2 batteries per regiment. And that is in addition to FM90 & Spada & Crotale. PAF is behind in SAM systems but PAF has loads of radars in service.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Raja Porus

farooqbhai007 said:


> 2 batteries per regiment.


3*

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## farooqbhai007

Can mods pls delete the troll posts and offtopic posts from this page.


----------



## waz

Keep posts not related to the topic off here please.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakSarZameen47

waz said:


> Keep posts not related to the topic off here please.



@waz please close the other thread, its completely inappropriate for a defence forum. Thanks

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ghazi52

,.,.,

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CSAW

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567377941817958400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567378286715486208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566244413101187072

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## arslank03

Radars from the west inbound, this is on top of MORE chinese radars bought recently and also many dozens of western radar upgrade kits @Bilal Khan (Quwa) 

alongside this large scale procurement of National IFF- Pehchan 14

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Abid123

Is Pakistan considering anti-stealth radar from China?


----------



## arslank03

Abid123 said:


> Is Pakistan considering anti-stealth radar from China?


we bought some more L Band radars recently, these are better for long range detection and a little better for detection of LO targets

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

CSAW said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567377941817958400
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567378286715486208
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566244413101187072


Pakistan should have gone for HQ 16 B instead of HQ 16 A. I don't know who made the decision when HQ 16 B available at that time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

Zarvan said:


> Pakistan should have gone for HQ 16 B instead of HQ 16 A. I don't know who made the decision when HQ 16 B available at that time.



Was the HQ-16 B available for sale to Pakistan at the time? Pakistan always seems to buy/gets one or 2 below China's best - yet can it always buys the best from Turkey, Sweden and elsewhere.

Does China actually make available to Pakistan its latest tech, or does it restrict to a slightly older generation on the basis of what is willing to sell ? J10CE is not china's best, and PAF is getting the export variant of the PL15*E*..

Is this way we are seeing the explosion in procurements from Turkey ?

I do think there is a element of technology restriction from China based on Pakistan procurement patterns from other weapons providers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

arslank03 said:


> Radars from the west inbound, this is on top of MORE chinese radars bought recently and also many dozens of western radar upgrade kits @Bilal Khan (Quwa)
> 
> alongside this large scale procurement of National IFF- Pehchan 14
> View attachment 885860



No indication of what type of radars they are ??

- *Let me put this out there*? ie are these radar sets ground based or air based(Erieye radar sets ... ).. is PAF looking to 'self-host' Erieye radar sets on the Bombardier Global 6000 iself (timing would suggest no - if you was - you would have procured earlier and started to get them ready before the radar sets turned up ).

Just speculation on my part ... but we know PAF ordered extra Erieye radar sets, but have seen no new airframes hosting those sets. So, is this delivery of radar sets the Erieye radar sets ????


----------



## arslank03

Ali_Baba said:


> No indication of what type of radars they are ??
> 
> - *Let me put this out there*? ie are these radar sets ground based or air based(Erieye radar sets ... ).. is PAF looking to 'self-host' Erieye radar sets on the Bombardier Global 6000 iself (timing would suggest no - if you was - you would have procured earlier and started to get them ready before the radar sets turned up ).
> 
> Just speculation on my part ... but we know PAF ordered extra Erieye radar sets, but have seen no new airframes hosting those sets. So, is this delivery of radar sets the Erieye radar sets ????




PAF was seeking TRML-4D 



Ali_Baba said:


> Was the HQ-16 B available for sale to Pakistan at the time? Pakistan always seems to buy/gets one or 2 below China's best - yet can it always buys the best from Turkey, Sweden and elsewhere.
> 
> Does China actually make available to Pakistan its latest tech, or does it restrict to a slightly older generation on the basis of what is willing to sell ? J10CE is not china's best, and PAF is getting the export variant of the PL15*E*..
> 
> Is this way we are seeing the explosion in procurements from Turkey ?
> 
> I do think there is a element of technology restriction from China based on Pakistan procurement patterns from other weapons providers.


restrictions are on everyone from the Chinese, the soviets did the same too, will not export something they are not capable of dealing with. You see this pattern, i.e FY-IV ERA only was available for export after the PLA got a better ERA. Turks just have great kit on great terms and are willing to do whatever we ask of them

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

arslank03 said:


> PAF was seeking TRML-4D



thanks - interesting if tue.

It has nice specifications : 






TRML-4D - Multi-Functional Air Surveillance and Target Acquisition Radar System | HENSOLDT


The TRS-4D/TRML-4D Radar Family encompasses HENSOLDT’s latest members of C-Band (NATO G-Band) state-of-the-art naval and ground tactical radars.




www.hensoldt.net






 
Instrumented range: 250 km
 
Azimuth coverage: 360° (rotating), 100° (fixed)
 
*Target detection capability of 0.01 m² RCS*
 
Capacity of 1500 targets 3D tracking
 
Track range performance: fighter aircraft > 120 km , supersonic missile > 60 km
 
Track update rate: < 1 s
 
MTTR: < 0.5 hrs
 
Highly mobile, set-up and de-camp within 10 minutes

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zarvan

Ali_Baba said:


> Was the HQ-16 B available for sale to Pakistan at the time? Pakistan always seems to buy/gets one or 2 below China's best - yet can it always buys the best from Turkey, Sweden and elsewhere.
> 
> Does China actually make available to Pakistan its latest tech, or does it restrict to a slightly older generation on the basis of what is willing to sell ? J10CE is not china's best, and PAF is getting the export variant of the PL15*E*..
> 
> Is this way we are seeing the explosion in procurements from Turkey ?
> 
> I do think there is a element of technology restriction from China based on Pakistan procurement patterns from other weapons providers.


Yes it was available for sale.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Zarvan said:


> Yes it was available for sale.



Then i would agree - it was a silly decision to purchase the A-variant when the B-vaariant was available(without of course knowing the "price" difference ).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## arslank03

Ali_Baba said:


> thanks - interesting if tue.
> 
> It has nice specifications :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRML-4D - Multi-Functional Air Surveillance and Target Acquisition Radar System | HENSOLDT
> 
> 
> The TRS-4D/TRML-4D Radar Family encompasses HENSOLDT’s latest members of C-Band (NATO G-Band) state-of-the-art naval and ground tactical radars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hensoldt.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instrumented range: 250 km
> 
> Azimuth coverage: 360° (rotating), 100° (fixed)
> 
> *Target detection capability of 0.01 m² RCS*
> 
> Capacity of 1500 targets 3D tracking
> 
> Track range performance: fighter aircraft > 120 km , supersonic missile > 60 km
> 
> Track update rate: < 1 s
> 
> MTTR: < 0.5 hrs
> 
> Highly mobile, set-up and de-camp within 10 minutes




youll be pleasently surprised, this is alongside the 60 or so MPDR uipgrade kits (aesa)



Ali_Baba said:


> Then i would agree - it was a silly decision to purchase the A-variant when the B-vaariant was available(without of course knowing the "price" difference ).




It is purely down to the missile, no other difference, so can be integrated with a simple software update most likely


----------



## CrazyZ

Zarvan said:


> Pakistan should have gone for HQ 16 B instead of HQ 16 A. I don't know who made the decision when HQ 16 B available at that time.


IMO, Pakistan needs an indigenous long range SAM project. Modern SAM systems are very expensive and would burn up forex that we don't have. There is a lot of value added if Pakistan had a long range SAM system that was 60%-70% domestically made. China and Turkey could provide the remaining 30%-40% components.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zarvan

CrazyZ said:


> IMO, Pakistan needs an indigenous long range SAM project. Modern SAM systems are very expensive and would burn up forex that we don't have. There is a lot of value added if Pakistan had a long range SAM system that was 60%-70% domestically made. China and Turkey could provide the remaining 30%-40% components.


Even if we have massive budget still we should have our own project but right now we are buying lot of stuff also and more will be bought soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

What is the generation for these Software/Defense articles would be nice to know compare to Top of line where these acquisitions hold are these 10 year old tech or 15 year old tech


----------



## CSAW

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578569169854865409
------------------------------------------


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576410312999591936
-------------------------------------------


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579103107287777280

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## syed_yusuf

May be that hq16a was offered as used refurbished at a very discounted rate more like best bang for the buck


----------



## IblinI



Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


----------

