# Change is happening: Kashimiri students, first time ever, sing Pakistani



## RayKalm

Change is happening: Kashimiri students, first time ever, sing Pakistani anthem.

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## somebozo

epic.....awesome..no words for it!


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## airmarshal

Ooops! I thought Kashmir is India's atoot ung!!!

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## Abhishek_

by the same lot who migrated back to India??
they are free to go back to the land of the pure

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## Bhairava

airmarshal said:


> Ooops! I thought Kashmir is India's atoot ung!!!



Yes..the *land* still is and will always be

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## Paan Singh

airmarshal said:


> Ooops! I thought Kashmir is India's atoot ung!!!



yes,i still can go there without passport and you send only mujahids without passport

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## yyetttt

Not surprising when Indian Occupied Kashmiris do this :







And this:






And this :






And this:






And finally this:

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## Paan Singh

^^^

Do u wanna c the pakistani flags burnt inside pakistan?

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## KingMamba

Brave people.

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## EzioAltaïr

RayKalm said:


> Change is happening: Kashimiri students, first time ever, sing Pakistani anthem.



? Wanna leave Kashmir and go to Pakistan, then piss off, no one's asking you to stay. But the land and the sane people remain with us.

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## Roybot

Change is happening? They have been doing this for the past few decades. Nothings gonna change

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## Pakistanisage

airmarshal said:


> Ooops! I thought Kashmir is India's atoot ung!!!





Trust me Friend, Kashmir will be soon India's " Toota huwa Ung " after it breaks away from India.

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## Bhairava

Lol I thought it must be a big gathering or something with Friday prayers and all the usual stuff..looks like a small group of couple of dozens of freeloaders......My area cricket team is bigger than this and can shout more vocally.



Pakistanisage said:


> Trust me Friend, Kashmir will be soon India's " Toota huwa Ung " after it breaks away from India.



Inshallah...

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## yyetttt

Kashmiris hate India

Brave Indian Army!!






Brave Indian police:

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## lkozhi

Change is happening 




Interesting the video shows the dwindling support. Refreshing change for sure.

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## yyetttt

*Brave Indian Army open firing on Kashmris*







Brave Indian Army beating up Kashmiri civilians

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## KingMamba

jellodragon said:


> *Brave Indian Army open firing on Kashmris*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brave Indian Army beating up Kashmiri civilians



Is that a bamboo shield?!?!

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## yyetttt

Even Indian Kashmiri soldiers to the right are getting sick at how Brave Indian Army treats civilian Kashmiris

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## Roybot

jellodragon said:


> Even Indian Kashmiri soldiers to the right are getting sick at how Brave Indian Army treats civilian Kashmiris



Thats Jammu and Kashmir Police, full of local Kashmiris.

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## cyphercide

Let's hope this 'change' is soon implemented in Balochistan and Karachi;



> The restive Balochistan province is not the only place where the national anthem remains barred from many of its educational institutions. Several leading elite schools of Karachi have also stopped following the tradition in their morning assemblies, calling it a waste of time and energy.





City

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## Kaniska

I was wondering about what was the change...these people from Srinagar valley are doing for than decade...what s the big deal...If one try to follow the path of self destruction...its individual wish...Good luck to them for aspiring to be a part of pakistan...


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## EzioAltaïr

airmarshal said:


> Ooops! I thought Kashmir is India's atoot ung!!!



I can visit Kashmir without a passport. I've been there and had nice long chats with our soldiers and I didn't get killed. On the other hand, see one Pakistani in Kashmir, and.... they meet there 72 virgins. That should put things back in perspective.

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## airmarshal

EzioAltaïr;3474862 said:


> ? Wanna leave Kashmir and go to Pakistan, then piss off, no one's asking you to stay. But the land and the sane people remain with us.



So its land only right not the people!!! 

Kashmir will be Pakistan - people will come to Pakistan with land. As pic said, 'Indian dogs go home'

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## Seaman

I think the people singing are some immigrants


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## EzioAltaïr

airmarshal said:


> So its land only right not the people!!!
> 
> Kashmir will be Pakistan - people will come to Pakistan with land. As pic said, 'Indian dogs go home'



It looks like Photoshop. The words seem to floating a bit, don't know why.


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## Edevelop

Once again:

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## EzioAltaïr

airmarshal said:


> So its land only right not the people!!!
> 
> Kashmir will be Pakistan - people will come to Pakistan with land. As pic said, 'Indian dogs go home'



BTW, the Kashmiris don't want Pakistan either. A recent poll showed that 43% of Kashmiris want independence from both India *and* Pakistan, and most of the rest want to stay with India, but want peace and the same autonomy as the other states. Those guys who fly Pakistani flags can sit and rot. Kashmir is ours for keeps.


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## Bhairava

airmarshal said:


> *So its land only right not the people!!! *
> 
> Kashmir will be Pakistan - people will come to Pakistan with land. As pic said, 'Indian dogs go home'



Hmm..roughly yeah. People who think themselves as Indians can stay as equal citizens..for the rest, we are not responsible. I think that is fair enough.


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## Thorough Pro

Pakistanisage said:


> Trust me Friend, Kashmir will be soon India's " Toota huwa Ung " after it breaks away from India.



Not india;s toota ung, because it was never india's in the first place. Kashmirbelongs to Pakistan and will merge with Pakistan.

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## AnnoyingOrange

RayKalm said:


> Change is happening: Kashimiri students, first time ever, sing Pakistani anthem.



A doctored propoganda video..thats the best these guys could have done....


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## karan21

Kashmiris have the right to express their views. If they have hate against India they can go to Pakistan. No one will stop them, but the land will stay with India.


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## EzioAltaïr

AnnoyingOrange said:


> A doctored propoganda video..thats the best these guys could have done....



Quite an evident fact. Which news channel showed this? Why are there weird dots all over the screen? Why??


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## Don Jaguar

Long live kashmiri fredom struggle from indian occupation.


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## EzioAltaïr

Don Jaguar said:


> Long live kashmiri fredom struggle from indian occupation.



If I were you, I'd be more worried about the human rights violations in *ahem* "Azad" Kashmir.


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## Hulk

Take it from a different Perspective. 
Violence is at rock bottom.
Old Kashmiri's are returning back.
Protest is at rock bottom.

Now how does paid agent of ISI get attention.
They sing a song.

Gate raho bhaiyya koi takaleef nahi.


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## Don Jaguar

EzioAltaïr;3475025 said:


> If I were you, I'd be more worried about the human rights violations in *ahem* "Azad" Kashmir.



Human rights violation in azad kashmir?

Are you insane?


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## EzioAltaïr

Don Jaguar said:


> Human rights violation in azad kashmir?
> 
> Are you insane?



I was expecting that. Mind you, I won't say anything before repeatedly ensuring I can vindicate my claims. Here ya go:

Human rights abuses in Azad Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or is it RAW propaganda now?


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## Hulk

jellodragon said:


> Even Indian Kashmiri soldiers to the right are getting sick at how Brave Indian Army treats civilian Kashmiris



Is it deliberate ya itne buddhu ho keep police aur fauj main antar nahi pata. Bandar Aur Chimpanzee ka antar to pata hai na.

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## EzioAltaïr

indianrabbit said:


> Is it *deliberate* or your processor does not know the difference between police and Army



The bolded word is the key to the truth.


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## ALOK31

Don Jaguar said:


> Human rights violation in azad kashmir?
> 
> Are you insane?


human rights violation in P0K

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## EzioAltaïr

ALOK31 said:


> human rights violation in p@k



Noooooooooo.  It's RAW propaganda, you dirty evil mided Indian. Azad Kashmir is Azad, full Kashmir will be Azad one day.

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## Bhairava

EzioAltaïr;3475043 said:


> I was expecting that. Mind you, I won't say anything before repeatedly ensuring I can vindicate my claims. Here ya go:
> 
> Human rights abuses in Azad Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Or is it RAW propaganda now?



Muslim persecuting/killing another muslim is perfectly acceptable you see...

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## EzioAltaïr

Bhairava said:


> Muslim persecuting/killing another muslim is perfectly acceptable you see...



Oh yeah, I forgot the Golden Rule.

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## karan.1970

Load of BS.. I was onsite at this time.. There were a few dozen morons who were misusing the right to free speech.. The same right most Pakistanis here were criticizing a few weeks back when it was used by an American film maker.. Hypocrisy much

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## --,-'{@

jo gaana hai gaa lo, ( ! ) bajane ka kaam Indian Army karegi

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## Hulk

Don Jaguar said:


> Long live kashmiri fredom struggle from indian occupation.



Yes me too. From guns and bombs to stones to singing... its heading in right direction.

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## joekrish

Why are those brave ones on the OP's video covering their faces? Are they ashamed of supporting Pakistan in the open?


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## graphican

Kashmir Bane Ga Pakistan! Inshallah!

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## Major Sam

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> yes,i still can go there without passport and you send only mujahids without passport



As you said So can you come to Pakistan occupied Kashmir WITH OUT PASSPort. after all its your atoot ang toooooo



Bhairava said:


> Lol I thought it must be a big gathering or something with Friday prayers and all the usual stuff..looks like a small group of couple of dozens of freeloaders......My area cricket team is bigger than this and can shout more vocally.
> 
> 
> 
> Inshallah...



O your cricket team is composed of 50++ people how you play with them? or you started your own IPL?

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## Abhishek_

wasn't it GOP who declared openly to freeze the kashmir issue for a decade?


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## yyetttt

Abhishek_ said:


> wasn't it GOP who declared openly to freeze the kashmir issue for a decade?



Huh? Imran Khan is not GOP. BSF still getting killed at LOC.


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## Lenin

Wet dreams are bad for health...


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## Abhishek_

jellodragon said:


> Huh? Imran Khan is not GOP. BSF still getting killed at LOC.


http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/209366-india-pak-freeze-kashmir-10-years.html

i didn't say anything about imran


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## RazPaK

Kashmir Zindabad!!!

Pakistan Zindabad!!!


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## jaunty

20 kids? come on now, we have seen worse.

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## RazPaK

Abhishek_ said:


> by the same lot who migrated back to India??
> they are free to go back to the land of the pure




LOL, umadbro?


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## walwal

graphican said:


> Kashmir Bane Ga Pakistan! Inshallah!



Good night and sweet dreams !


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## yyetttt

Abhishek_ said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/209366-india-pak-freeze-kashmir-10-years.html
> 
> i didn't say anything about imran



Hurriyat Conference.. Never heard of that **** in my life. Wait for a official statement from GOP, just remember Zardari said something about Kashmir in the UN


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## walwal

jellodragon said:


> Wait for a official statement from GOP, just remember Zardari said something about Kashmir in the UN



Mr. 10 % ?


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## ALOK31

jellodragon said:


> Hurriyat Conference.. Never heard of that **** in my life. Wait for a official statement from GOP, just remember Zardari said something about Kashmir in the UN


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## third eye

I wish posters here would know ( being a Military forum) that the IA does not wear khaki - it is worn by the Para Military Forces and state Police with a few exceptions - Goa has a different colour I think.

Next, such acts as gleefully pointed out by ppl on this thread do not in any way represent the ground reality in J&K.

Yet, if it helps posters from pak to get a few moments of pleasure to feel that after 65 years things might be changing - well. day dreaming cannot be stopped.


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## ALOK31

jellodragon said:


> I think they're protesting something else bro. Thats a MQM rally for womens rights. Atleast watch the video before posting
> 
> [video]youtube.com/watch?v=0vsZfzCRE28[/video]



NICE JOKE FIRST U SEE VIDEO THEN TALK .THEY ARE AGAINST PAKISTAN OCCUPTION IN GILGIT BATALISTAN .

SEE MORE VIDEO

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## ALOK31



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## yyetttt

WOMEN PROTEST AGAINST INDIAN OCCUPATION OF KASHMIR, INDIA BLAMES IT ON PAKISTAN

The freedom movement in Indian Held Kashmir has received fresh impetus with its women taking up the cause of freedom. The situation in Kashmir has greatly deteriorated since the death of a 17-year-old student, who succumbed to his injuries after being hit by a teargas shell. Protest rallies have been baton charged, teargassed and brutally fired upon, with more than 50 lives being lost. However, just as the freedom struggle seemed to be stagnating, the women emerged on the streets, beating on their utensils, throwing stones at the Indian forces and chanting slogans for freedom. Over the years, Kashmiri women have played an important role in the struggle for freedom. Names like Asiya Andrabi, who led protest rallies comprising Kashmiri women, have filled volumes. However, the image of Kashmiri women in the liberation struggle has been mostly of wives, mothers, sisters or daughters mourning over the dead body of a relative, who embraced shahadat as a result of the atrocities of the Indian army. The new face of the Kashmiri women is unparalleled. Hundreds of women and girls, many in shalwar kameez, have since been regularly out on the streets chanting &#8220;we want freedom!&#8221; and &#8220;blood for blood!&#8221; Indeed, their message is loud and clear. Although the Indian army has not refrained from targeting the unarmed women, dealing with female protesters is a fraught challenge for the police and paramilitary troops. Many women who do not directly take part in rallies carry drinking water to the protesters and also direct youths down escape routes as they flee from baton charges, teargas and gunfire.Exasperated by the deteriorating situation in Kashmir, India&#8217;s Interior Minister P. Chidambaram has alleged that Pakistan may have instigated these protests. This is the first time New Delhi has linked Pakistan to the recent spate of violence in the Kashmir Valley that began on June 11. Earlier, India had said Pakistan-based militants were inciting trouble in the region. &#8220;Pakistan appears to have altered its strategy in influencing events in Jammu and Kashmir,&#8221; Chidambaram told the Indian Parliament during a debate on the protests. India, however, remains confident that it can foil Pakistan&#8217;s &#8220;evil designs&#8221; if it is able to win the hearts and minds of the people.


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## ALOK31




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## yyetttt

How can this happen in Kashmir's biggest city?

[video]youtube.com/watch?v=4dU8xAMP1gQ[/video]

[video]youtube.com/watch?v=AEc6g09Z9D4[/video]

Khalistan freedom-

[video]youtube.com/watch?v=FwAMnDplqh4[/video]

[video]youtube.com/watch?v=g0OxicF7xQo[/video]


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## Abhishek_

RazPaK said:


> LOL, umadbro?


not really paaji. we've tackled far worse. this is child's play for the security forces.



jellodragon said:


> Hurriyat Conference.. Never heard of that **** in my life. Wait for a official statement from GOP, just remember Zardari said something about Kashmir in the UN


pakistanis themselves dont care what he says, you think indians would give a rat's behind?


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## ALOK31

jellodragon said:


> How can this happen in Kashmir's biggest city?
> 
> [video]youtube.com/watch?v=4dU8xAMP1gQ[/video]
> 
> [video]youtube.com/watch?v=AEc6g09Z9D4[/video]
> 
> Khalistan freedom-
> 
> [video]youtube.com/watch?v=FwAMnDplqh4[/video]
> 
> [video]youtube.com/watch?v=g0OxicF7xQo[/video]



HUMAN RIGHT VIOLATION IN P0k.


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## yyetttt

WHY DO KASHMIRIS HATE INDIA?

SRINAGAR, Indian-controlled Kashmir, Sept. 27 (Xinhua) -- Muslim majority areas of Indian-controlled Kashmir Thursday observed a complete shutdown to protest Indian President's visit to the troubled region.

The shutdown call was given by region's hardline separatist alliance Hurriyat (freedom) Conference, headed by Syed Ali Geelani. He stated shutdown will be a reminder to the visiting Indian President that New Delhi was militarily occupying the disputed territory and yet to fulfill the promises its leaders made Kashmiris.

The shutdown call was also supported by students, lawyers and militant groups.

The President of Indian Pranab Mukherje arrived in region's summer capital-Srinagar Wednesday evening on a three-day visit. He held meetings with Indian controlled Kashmir Governor, N N Vohra and Chief Minister Omar Abdullah on his arrival, a government spokesman said.

Mukherje presided over the convocation of University of Kashmir and handed over academic degrees to the meritorious students. He will also be inspecting the work of the Dal Lake conservation project aided by New Delhi. Dal Lake in Srinagar is famous world over for its houseboats.

Authorities have beefed up security apparatus in the city ahead of this high-profile visit. Fearing clashes in Srinagar city and in the vicinity of university campus, hundreds of paramilitary troopers and policemen were deployed in full-riot gear.

"Since Thursday morning the police and paramilitary troopers have been deployed to thwart any militant attack and also to disallow protest demonstrations in and around university," said a police official posted in city.

Businesses, shops, educational institutions remained closed in wake of the strike call. The attendance in government offices and banks remained affected. Vehicular traffic also remained off the roads except some police vehicles, official cavalcades and private vehicles were seen plying on the otherwise deserted roads.

Similar reports were received from other districts of the region.

Anti-India sentiment runs deep in the psyche of majority of Kashmiris and separatists have been demanding end of New Delhi's rule in the region.


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## Abhishek_

^we understand that some people don't like to live under indian rule. these gentlemen are free to leave for greener pastures, although oddly we see hordes still trying to get in. rather strange in my humble opinion

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## yyetttt

[video]youtube.com/watch?v=1lKPhv82qds[/video]

[video]youtube.com/watch?v=i6s1digj63Y[/video]


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## RazPaK

Abhishek_ said:


> ^we understand that some people don't like to live under indian rule. these gentlemen are free to leave for greener pastures, although oddly we see hordes still trying to get in. rather strange in my humble opinion



In my humble opinion you should have some shame.

Lmao. 

Hordes?

Coming in from where? 

You're eastern borders?


Your own people starve to death, yet you have the audacity to praise illegals?

Hilarious.

I don't have to even point out how pathetic you are before people see you that way.


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## yyetttt

Abhishek_ said:


> ^we understand that some people don't like to live under indian rule. these gentlemen are free to leave for greener pastures, although oddly we see hordes still trying to get in. rather strange in my humble opinion



They want their land too


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## anilindia




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## Abhishek_

jellodragon said:


> Unfortunately for you, there is no proof of that. UN and WikiLeaks have reported themselves that India does the most human rights violations in Kashmir, comparable to Israel


you're not understanding our response. GOI's simple stance is that the human cost is irrelevant. the land will remain firmly under Indian control, regardless of the cost we have to pay.


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## yyetttt




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## anilindia

Have you ever find Kashmir problem is discuss in Indian Supreme Court as balouchistan is now discussed in Pakistan supreme court. 



OVER A COFFEE : Balochistan or Waziristan first? &#8212; Dr Haider Shah

The Baloch leaders are right in claiming that they could only participate in elections if a conducive environment for political activities is created first

Balochistan grabbed the headlines when Akhtar Mengal appeared before the Supreme Court last week. Articulating his views quite well, the former chief minister of Balochistan compared his six demands to the six-point programme of Sheikh Mujibur Rehman of East Pakistan. Even though the Baloch leader deliberately made a thinly veiled threat of parting ways with Pakistan, unlike the Awami League leaders, he did not sound rebellious.

Through his six-point programme, Sheikh Mujib had demanded a kind of confederation with only defence and foreign affairs remaining with the Centre. No separatist demand has been made by Akhtar Mengal and if the contents of the six demands are examined, one can hardly see any departure from what the Constitution has already guaranteed to all citizens of Pakistan. Who can disagree with Mengal if he demands the safe return of missing persons and an end to the state-sponsored target killing in Balochistan? The response of the present PPP-led government however has been timid, betraying its lack of faith in itself. The aggrieved Baloch leaders are therefore justified in their lack of trust in the capability of the present government to make any progress on the Balochistan front.

We all think in terms of bounded rationality dictated by our training and circumstances. How Institutions think? is a popular work of Mary Douglas in which she examines the role of shared vision in shaping institutional thinking of various organisations. The military, as an organisation, has its own peculiar way of looking at the world and its decision-making therefore suffers from the fatal flaw of seeing things in black and white. While the military is often employed as an important provider of input, the job of resolution of complex disputes remains the forte of politicians. In 1971, the military strategists viewed the deep-rooted East Pakistan situation as a mere law and order problem and thought they could fix it with Operation Searchlight. The big brains in the military establishment are again trying to impose a military solution on a combustible situation in Balochistan. Due to its alleged deadly embrace of al Qaeda linked terrorists, Pakistan already suffers from a trustworthiness problem and the human rights abuses in Balochistan will hardly make its image any better.

It is not all gloom and doom though. Historically, Punjab has been accused by the smaller provinces, especially Balochistan, of exploitation. The PML-N as the representative of the largest province of Pakistan, however, appears not to be in the bad books of the Baloch leaders like Mengal. If the gulf between Punjab and Balochistan narrows, it would be a positive step towards national reconciliation. It is important for the leaders of the mainstream parties to develop a strategic consensus on showing solidarity with the genuine demands of the Baloch leaders so that their return to national politics is made possible. Standing next to Mengal for a photo opportunity is not enough. They should all demand that the uniformed men should vacate decision-making positions to the politicians. Hopefully, fair and free elections can prove a panacea for the grievous wounds inflicted by successive regimes upon Balochistan. But the Baloch leaders are right in claiming that they could only participate in elections if a conducive environment for political activities is created first.

The Baloch leaders also need to know that while cherishing tribal identity is an inalienable right of all citizens of Pakistan, tribalism itself cannot co-exist inside the notion of a modern democratic state forever. In order to remain a leader, the claimant must serve the electorate. The critics of Baloch tribal leaders contend that they do not spend enough on social sectors like education and health so that the old tribal structure may stay intact. No doubt, Mengal rightly takes the credit for establishing the Bolan University, but much more needs to be done for education in Balochistan. They also need to understand that when developmental projects are launched, skilled labour from various parts of the world, including the other provinces of Pakistan, will have to be welcomed. If the trust deficit is not huge, all stakeholders realise that development demands long-term partnerships.

When the Mehran naval base was being attacked by the Taliban-affiliated terrorists, Imran Khan was busy in a futile dharna (sit-in) to express solidarity with the Taliban. Now when the Supreme Court, national media and political leaders are all discussing the Balochistan situation with a sense of urgency, he is staging a march to Waziristan. He had earlier claimed that his public meetings in Karachi and Quetta would usher in a new era of peace and prosperity. Neither do energy problems get resolved with water-run cars, nor do conflicts go away by music-enthralled crowds or white people-led marches. If Khan was leading the march to sign a peace treaty with the main Taliban leaders in which they declare a renunciation of extremism after laying down their arms and express their allegiance to the Constitution of Pakistan, I would have today extended my warmest support. But demanding security from the Taliban for his march, he is rather surrendering the sovereignty of the state to a paramilitary force that takes pride in beheading captured soldiers of Pakistan. In a television programme, the visitors from abroad were expressing concerns for human rights violations in Waziristan. Would it not be a good idea to take them to the relatives of missing persons and the leaders of the Hazara community in Balochistan as well? After all, human misery has neither any nationality nor any faith.


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Abhishek_

^any amount of pictures aren't going to change the ground realities. kashmiri land will remain ours regardless of the human cost.

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## yyetttt

Indian Occupied Kashmir-


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## Paan Singh

Foolish people posting pics of kashmiri police as indian army  

Even compare kashmir with karachi,you will see which city seen most bloodshed in last 2-3 yrs


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## yyetttt

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> Foolish people posting pics of kashmiri police as indian army
> 
> Even compare kashmir with karachi,you will see which city seen most bloodshed in last 2-3 yrs



Compare anything with India, you will think even Somalia, trash, dirt, grime is the best country in the world... Atleast Somalia is safer than India


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## Lenin

jellodragon said:


> Compare anything with India, you will think even Somalia, trash, dirt, grime is the best country in the world... Atleast Somalia is safer than India



and pakistan is worst than somalia


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## Paan Singh

jellodragon said:


> Compare anything with India, you will think even Somalia, trash, dirt, grime is the best country in the world... Atleast Somalia is safer than India




if somalia is safer then why paksitanis come here in india for medical facilities?? 

if somalia is safer then y ur actor or singers come here n do bark  ?

so somalia is better than pakistan?? 





bring smthng else sir...


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## yyetttt

See even Khalistan has a website of its own... Give them independence, you cant even take care 70% of your citizens

Khalistan Admitted to UNPO
Khalistan recognized internationally, a historic landmark. Sikh Nation vows to reclaim its lost sovereignty.



Nishan Sahib (Sikh Flag) hoisted along with other nations flags. Khalistan was admitted to UNPO on Jan 23, 1993 and Khalistan&#8217;s flag (Nishan Sahib) hoisted at UNPO&#8217;S (Unrepresented Nations Peoples Organizations) General Assembly meeting at The Hague, Netherlands, a major milestone in the struggle for reclamation of the lost Sikh sovereignty and for the freedom of Sikh Homeland of Punjab, Khalistan. The last time the Sikh Flag (Nishan Sahib) flew over the sovereign Sikh state was in 1849. Sikh nation lost its sovereignty to the British. On Jan 23, 1993, one hundered forty four years after the Sikhs lost their sovereignty, Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, Dr.Paramjit Singh Ajrawat and S. Bhupinder Singh signed the covenant of Khalistan&#8217;s admission into UNPO.

KHALISTAN & UNPO : Self-determination conference Jan 22-23, 1993 Hague, Netherlands.

Refer to page 25:

&#8220;15. KHALISTAN
Self-determination stands for freedom and justice. Freedom is the most basic human right. When freedom is denied, every other right is denied. In Punjab/Khalistan the people are not free. Indian police and military forces occupy the territory and are guilty of serious human right violations, which include torture, rape and murder.
When the British left India in 1947, it was agreed that the Sikhs would gain autonomy in the Province of Punjab. However India did not honor its obligations. In 1987, after 40 years of suffering and oppression, the Sikh Nation declared its independence from India, forming the separate country of Khalistan. However the independence is not recognized by India. Like many other governments the Government of India invokes the principle of territorial integrity to protect its borders. Used in this way the principle is thus contradictory to the principle of self-determination and should therefore be condemned. Khalistan seeks independence by peaceful, democratic and non-violent means. It requests the UNPO among others to press India to allow Amnesty International within its borders to investigate the human rights violations in Punjab, Nagaland, Kashmir and all other places where people are suppressed. General suggestions to the UNPO are to ask Latvia and Estonia to take up the causes of the UNPO-members in the UN and to press the international community (especially the World Bank, the IMF and the donor nations) to link aid to respect for human rights and for freedom. In this context, the UNPO should make a list of nations that abuse human rights and distribute it to potential donors.&#8220;

Gore Letter Implies Recognition of Khalistan
WASHINGTON, D.C., February 24 &#8212; In a letter to Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, President of the Council of Khalistan, Vice President Al Gore wrote, &#8220;Thank you for writing to me regarding the ongoing civil conflict in Khalistan.&#8221;

By acknowledging &#8220;the civil conflict in Khalistan,&#8221; the letter implies recognition of Khalistan&#8217;s independence. Khalistan is the Sikh homeland which was declared independent on October 7, 1987. At that time, the Council of Khalistan was formed to lead the struggle to liberate Khalistan as the government pro tempore of Khalistan.

&#8220;By this statement, the Vice President makes it clear that U.S. foreign policy supports human rights, including the basic right to national self-determination which underlies the Sikh struggle for an independent Khalistan,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh.

Punjab, Khalistan was independent from 1765 to 1849. It was the last part of the subcontinent to be conquered by the British. Sikhs are two-thirds of the population of Punjab and own 95 percent of the land there. In the recent elections, the Sikhs of Punjab overwhelmingly rejected Congress Party rule, which has brought about the murders of over 50,000 Sikhs in five years. This was a clear demand for an independent Khalistan.

When India was given its independence, the Sikhs were denied resumption of their independent status. The Sikhs were promised autonomy and they were given the Congress Party&#8217;s solemn pledge that no law affecting Sikh rights would pass without the consent of the Sikh Nation. But as soon as the ink was dry, the Indian regime broke these promises. As a result, no Sikh has ever signed the Indian constitution, denying Sikh assent to Indian rule.

Vice President Gore wrote that &#8220;civil conflict in any nation, and the inevitable hardship and bloodshed that it inflicts on that nation&#8217;s civilian population, offends our sense of human dignity and our humanitarian ideals.&#8221; The Indian regime has murdered more than 200,000 Sikhs in Khalistan since 1984, according to the Punjab Civil Service (PCS), the group which represents state magistrates across Punjab, Khalistan.

&#8220;The breakup of India is inevitable,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh. &#8220;Many experts, from Dr. Jack Wheeler of the Freedom Research Foundation to Professor Stanley Wolpert of UCLA to the authors of A Quick and Dirty History of War have predicted it,&#8221; Dr. Aulakh pointed out. &#8220;We are glad that the Administration, through Vice President Gore, has acknowledged the Sikh Nation&#8217;s status as a nation and its right to national slf-determination. With the support of the Administration and our many friends in Congress, the Sikh Nation will celebrate its three-hundredth anniversary in a sovereign, independent Khalistan,&#8221; he said.


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## Lenin

We will never allow indian kashmir to turn into like this -http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/211514-truth-about-pakistan-occoupied-kashmir.html


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## yyetttt

Khalistan website- Khalistan » Sovereign Nation


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## yyetttt

Khalistan ZIndabad!!


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## anilindia

jellodragon said:


> See even Khalistan has a website of its own... Give them independence, you cant even take care 70% of your citizens
> 
> Khalistan Admitted to UNPO
> Khalistan recognized internationally, a historic landmark. Sikh Nation vows to reclaim its lost sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Nishan Sahib (Sikh Flag) hoisted along with other nations flags. Khalistan was admitted to UNPO on Jan 23, 1993 and Khalistan&#8217;s flag (Nishan Sahib) hoisted at UNPO&#8217;S (Unrepresented Nations Peoples Organizations) General Assembly meeting at The Hague, Netherlands, a major milestone in the struggle for reclamation of the lost Sikh sovereignty and for the freedom of Sikh Homeland of Punjab, Khalistan. The last time the Sikh Flag (Nishan Sahib) flew over the sovereign Sikh state was in 1849. Sikh nation lost its sovereignty to the British. On Jan 23, 1993, one hundered forty four years after the Sikhs lost their sovereignty, Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, Dr.Paramjit Singh Ajrawat and S. Bhupinder Singh signed the covenant of Khalistan&#8217;s admission into UNPO.
> 
> KHALISTAN & UNPO : Self-determination conference Jan 22-23, 1993 Hague, Netherlands.
> 
> Refer to page 25:
> 
> &#8220;15. KHALISTAN
> Self-determination stands for freedom and justice. Freedom is the most basic human right. When freedom is denied, every other right is denied. In Punjab/Khalistan the people are not free. Indian police and military forces occupy the territory and are guilty of serious human right violations, which include torture, rape and murder.
> When the British left India in 1947, it was agreed that the Sikhs would gain autonomy in the Province of Punjab. However India did not honor its obligations. In 1987, after 40 years of suffering and oppression, the Sikh Nation declared its independence from India, forming the separate country of Khalistan. However the independence is not recognized by India. Like many other governments the Government of India invokes the principle of territorial integrity to protect its borders. Used in this way the principle is thus contradictory to the principle of self-determination and should therefore be condemned. Khalistan seeks independence by peaceful, democratic and non-violent means. It requests the UNPO among others to press India to allow Amnesty International within its borders to investigate the human rights violations in Punjab, Nagaland, Kashmir and all other places where people are suppressed. General suggestions to the UNPO are to ask Latvia and Estonia to take up the causes of the UNPO-members in the UN and to press the international community (especially the World Bank, the IMF and the donor nations) to link aid to respect for human rights and for freedom. In this context, the UNPO should make a list of nations that abuse human rights and distribute it to potential donors.&#8220;
> 
> Gore Letter Implies Recognition of Khalistan
> WASHINGTON, D.C., February 24 &#8212; In a letter to Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, President of the Council of Khalistan, Vice President Al Gore wrote, &#8220;Thank you for writing to me regarding the ongoing civil conflict in Khalistan.&#8221;
> 
> By acknowledging &#8220;the civil conflict in Khalistan,&#8221; the letter implies recognition of Khalistan&#8217;s independence. Khalistan is the Sikh homeland which was declared independent on October 7, 1987. At that time, the Council of Khalistan was formed to lead the struggle to liberate Khalistan as the government pro tempore of Khalistan.
> 
> &#8220;By this statement, the Vice President makes it clear that U.S. foreign policy supports human rights, including the basic right to national self-determination which underlies the Sikh struggle for an independent Khalistan,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh.
> 
> Punjab, Khalistan was independent from 1765 to 1849. It was the last part of the subcontinent to be conquered by the British. Sikhs are two-thirds of the population of Punjab and own 95 percent of the land there. In the recent elections, the Sikhs of Punjab overwhelmingly rejected Congress Party rule, which has brought about the murders of over 50,000 Sikhs in five years. This was a clear demand for an independent Khalistan.
> 
> When India was given its independence, the Sikhs were denied resumption of their independent status. The Sikhs were promised autonomy and they were given the Congress Party&#8217;s solemn pledge that no law affecting Sikh rights would pass without the consent of the Sikh Nation. But as soon as the ink was dry, the Indian regime broke these promises. As a result, no Sikh has ever signed the Indian constitution, denying Sikh assent to Indian rule.
> 
> Vice President Gore wrote that &#8220;civil conflict in any nation, and the inevitable hardship and bloodshed that it inflicts on that nation&#8217;s civilian population, offends our sense of human dignity and our humanitarian ideals.&#8221; The Indian regime has murdered more than 200,000 Sikhs in Khalistan since 1984, according to the Punjab Civil Service (PCS), the group which represents state magistrates across Punjab, Khalistan.
> 
> &#8220;The breakup of India is inevitable,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh. &#8220;Many experts, from Dr. Jack Wheeler of the Freedom Research Foundation to Professor Stanley Wolpert of UCLA to the authors of A Quick and Dirty History of War have predicted it,&#8221; Dr. Aulakh pointed out. &#8220;We are glad that the Administration, through Vice President Gore, has acknowledged the Sikh Nation&#8217;s status as a nation and its right to national slf-determination. With the support of the Administration and our many friends in Congress, the Sikh Nation will celebrate its three-hundredth anniversary in a sovereign, independent Khalistan,&#8221; he said.




1993 news.....


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## yyetttt

anilindia said:


> 1993 news.....



They said in 1993 Khalistan was admitted into UN. Its not 1993 news, and the Khalistan site gets updated everyday


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## Lenin

If sikhs want indipendence from india than why half of indian army are Sikhs/punjabis...

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## anilindia

jellodragon said:


> Compare anything with India, you will think even Somalia, trash, dirt, grime is the best country in the world... Atleast Somalia is safer than India



Somalia and Pakistan are not far in failed state list. Pakistan is 12 rank behind Somalia in failed state list.... Somalia is no 1 and Pakistan 13....

Pakistan ranks 13th in failed states index | The Nation


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## SpArK

Very good news. They are free to sing whatever song they like.

They should sing _Gangnam style_ neXT..


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## Abhishek_

Lenin said:


> If sikhs want indipendence from india than why half of indian army are Sikhs/punjabis...


relax us punjabis aren't going anywhere. some idiots can cry all they want about khalistan.

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## karan21

Lenin said:


> If sikhs want indipendence from india than why half of indian army are Sikhs/punjabis...



We have a plan 
First we will join the army and Fight Pakistan and get Pakistani Punjab and then with huge numbers and dominance in Indian army launch war on India to reclaim Indian punjab. Ek teer se doo nishane... 
Forming greater Khalistan


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## yyetttt

anilindia said:


> Somalia and Pakistan are not far in failed state list. Pakistan is 12 rank behind Somalia in failed state list.... Somalia is no 1 and Pakistan 13....
> 
> Pakistan ranks 13th in failed states index | The Nation



I wouldnt e talking buddy.. Your country is named most unsafe place for women, open defecation hole, terrorist haven, everyday 5000 children die everyday in India to poverty, and most child malnutrition in the world... You are even worse than Africa



karan21 said:


> We have a plan
> First we will join the army and Fight Pakistan and get Pakistani Punjab and then with huge numbers and dominance in Indian army launch war on India to reclaim Indian punjab. Ek teer se doo nishane...
> Forming greater Khalistan



And then we will nuke you and that will be the end of Khalistan and India


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## Arav_Rana

These asshole are acting like that they fought for 1947 freedom. Studying in government funded uni, eating and drinking in India and acting like traitors. 
Human rights should belongs to citizens who respect the country. these people have no rights..
Just born and breed like rats does not means any land can be belong to them. Every single part of India belongs to Indians only, who have problem, they can leave, but asking for separate country or joining other country should not be acceptable. 
and best way to solve this problem, kill all traitors. ye log deemak ki tarah hai, nai maroge to baki tree ko bhi kha jaynge...

and some people are jumping and also dragging khalistan also, 1st save your own country...


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## karan21

Abhishek_ said:


> relax us punjabis aren't going anywhere. some idiots can cry all they want about khalistan.




Khalistan means the land of pure, Lets purify India and make it khalis. Wahegure ji ka Khalsa, Wahegure ji di fateh. 



jellodragon said:


> I wouldnt e talking buddy.. Your country is named most unsafe place for women, open defecation hole, terrorist haven, everyday 5000 children die everyday in India to poverty, and most child malnutrition in the world... You are even worse than Africa
> 
> 
> 
> And then we will nuke you and that will be the end of Khalistan and India




yaar Icewolf ik gal das.

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## anilindia

'jo bole so nihal sat sri akaal'

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## karan21

anilindia said:


> 'jo bole so nihal sat sri akaal'



Sikhs or Kashmiris stand United with India forever. Yaar koi panga hoya tan maar dene bande apa.

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## Abhishek_

karan21 said:


> Sikhs or Kashmiris stand United with India forever. Yaar koi panga hoya tan maar dene bande apa.


lol GOP has already frozen the issue for a decade. the E-thugs here can huff n puff as much as they want


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## RazPaK

karan21 said:


> Sikhs or Kashmiris stand United with India forever. Yaar koi panga hoya tan maar dene bande apa.



LoL, Kashmiris give your Indians hazar lanat.


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## karan21

Lavosh said:


> *Khalistan Jindabad *
> 
> 
> *Hame Adha nahi Pura Khalistan Chahiye Pura Lahore , Peshawar , Kshmir pahale baad me hum usko mila ke india ka khalistan state bana denge , Aur Pakistaniyo ko Afghanistan bhej denge Refugee BANA KE .*.....
> 
> *hey Khalistan JINDABAD * .........



Work on this plan is on bro. I explained it my last post read it.

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## RazPaK

Abhishek_ said:


> lol GOP has already frozen the issue for a decade. the E-thugs here can huff n puff as much as they want




If that makes you masturbate to your avatar faster, then I guess?


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## Lenin

I wouldnt e talking buddy.. Your country is named most unsafe place for women, open defecation hole, terrorist haven, everyday 5000 children die everyday in India to poverty, and most child malnutrition in the world... You are even worse than Africa................................................................ expected comment when they are frusted and has no word to say


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## karan21

RazPaK said:


> LoL, Kashmiris give your Indians hazar lanat.



Bro time will heal their wounds. But it's better for them if they stay with India.


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## RazPaK

karan21 said:


> Bro time will heal their wounds. But it's better for them if they stay with India.



They don't want to be a part of globalism. Let them choose what they want.


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## karan21

Abhishek_ said:


> lol GOP has already frozen the issue for a decade. the E-thugs here can huff n puff as much as they want



Lol I know, this jello/Icewolf talks as if he is owner of a personal nuclear bomb in Pakistan. 

PS Pakistan and India need to get together and solve issues.


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## RazPaK

Lavosh said:


> *Kshmir KHALISTAN KA PART HAI goggles wale Bacche *....
> 
> 
> *KHALISTAN JINDABAD , KSHMIR , LAHOR ,PESHAWAR KHALISTAN HAI KA PART HAI
> 
> *





Apne haq mein raho.


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## karan21

RazPaK said:


> They don't want to be a part of globalism. Let them choose what they want.



Sorry bro, nothing comes ahead of Indian dignity and national interest. We can't let that happen. They won't be allowed to choose, choice has been made for them. 

This is one thing India can't allow, for everything else like trade or friendship we are up and ready.


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## Abhishek_

RazPaK said:


> They don't want to be a part of globalism. Let them choose what they want.


they have the choice, nobody is stopping them from packing their bags. but oddly we see the so called warriors returning to India (along with their pakistani wives). oh the irony


----------



## joekrish

RazPaK said:


> If that makes you masturbate to your avatar faster, then I guess?


So......... you masterbate to your avatar? You are sick, should report you to the child well fare authorities.


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## RazPaK

karan21 said:


> Sorry bro, nothing comes ahead of Indian dignity and national interest. We can't let that happen. They won't be allowed to choose, choice has been made for them.
> 
> This is one thing India can't allow, for everything else like trade or friendship we are up and ready.



Kashmir will have independence. They don't want to be a part of India.

We don't need to even aid them.


You cannot go against a people's wish.


We will go to war over Kashmir with India. They are our people. We are not afraid of death. My own relatives have fought for Kashmir. Call them terrorist or whatever your state television programs tell you to, but to us they are our heroes. ''

Even in defeat we don't admit defeat.

Kashmir zindabad,

Pakistan zindabad.

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## Abhishek_

RazPaK said:


> Even in defeat we don't admit defeat.


like an incessant child? yes we know.

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## anilindia

RazPaK said:


> Kashmir will have independence. They don't want to be a part of India.
> 
> We don't need to even aid them.
> 
> 
> You cannot go against a people's wish.
> 
> 
> We will go to war over Kashmir with India. They are our people. We are not afraid of death. My own relatives have fought for Kashmir. Call them terrorist or whatever your state television programs tell you to, but to us they are our heroes. ''
> 
> *Even in defeat we don't admit defeat.*
> Kashmir zindabad,
> 
> Pakistan zindabad.



Then why r u sitting in US. Come and get killed.
LIke u dont admit defeat in 47,64,71,99,Siachen..


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## jaunty

lol since independence Kashmir Kashmir karke you guys lost half of your country, fir bhi akal nahi ayi, ab next is Balochistan, I see Akhtar Mengal is making a lot of noise these days.


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## RazPaK

Abhishek_ said:


> like an incessant child? yes we know.



I would personally go to Kashmir, If I had the knowledge of your cowardly self being present. 

You hindus do not scare us.


Rather, we feel pity for you.



jaunty said:


> lol since independence Kashmir Kashmir karke you guys lost half of your country, fir bhi akal nahi ayi, ab next is Balochistan, I see Akhtar Mengal is making a lot of noise these days.




Worry about your maoists. Hear they have been making lots of noise.


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## Lenin

Pakistanis are jealous of this-http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/211373-development-projects-kashmir-indian-government.html?highlight=Development in kashmir


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## karan21

RazPaK said:


> Kashmir will have independence. They don't want to be a part of India.
> 
> We don't need to even aid them.
> 
> 
> You cannot go against a people's wish.
> 
> 
> We will go to war over Kashmir with India. They are our people. We are not afraid of death. My own relatives have fought for Kashmir. Call them terrorist or whatever your state television programs tell you to, but to us they are our heroes. ''
> 
> Even in defeat we don't admit defeat.
> 
> Kashmir zindabad,
> 
> Pakistan zindabad.



The problem with you is that you only and only think like a Pakistani. A goo d diplomat thinks both ways before taking decisions. 

1. Just for a moment think like an Indian. If India lets Kashmir off for Independence, then within Hours Pakistan army will launch an offence on the basis that Kashmiris want to join Pak likw 1948. India will have to respond and kashmiris will again be buries under both nations. So independence is not even an option, don't even for a second think that India will will give independence. 

2. If India agrees of giving Kashmir to Pak, we loose critical regions and locations against China, which we cant afford. Next, Kashmiris have freedom movements. So even after joining Pakistan it will be a troubled state with groups still fighting for freedom. Third, Pakistan currently is not even capable of taking care of its own country, its almost bankrupt and in crisis, sorry but it can't handle another 4 crore people. 

Best is to keep what we have and develop our regions for peace and cooperation.


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## RazPaK

Lavosh said:


> *Goggle wala Baccha Terrorist Family Se Hai *



Hun to kya, teri to pharun gah bachay.


----------



## Jackdaws

Funny, I saw this video


----------



## RazPaK

karan21 said:


> The problem with you is that you only and only think like a Pakistani. A goo d diplomat thinks both ways before taking decisions.
> 
> 1. Just for a moment think like an Indian. If India lets Kashmir off for Independence, then within Hours Pakistan army will launch an offence on the basis that Kashmiris want to join Pak likw 1948. India will have to respond and kashmiris will again be buries under both nations. So independence is not even an option, don't even for a second think that India will will give independence.
> 
> 2. If India agrees of giving Kashmir to Pak, we loose critical regions and locations against China, which we cant afford. Next, Kashmiris have freedom movements. So even after joining Pakistan it will be a troubled state with groups still fighting for freedom. Third, Pakistan currently is not even capable of taking care of its own country, its almost bankrupt and in crisis, sorry but it can't handle another 4 crore people.
> 
> Best is to keep what we have and develop our regions for peace and cooperation.




If India gives the Kashmiris the right to independence, then it will find itself in a favorable situation from Pakistan.

Then there will be no hard feelings towards India.

Indians fail to realize this.


----------



## jaunty

RazPaK said:


> Worry about your maoists. Hear they have been making lots of noise.



India hasn't lost an inch since independence, in fact gained quite a few. On the contrary you lost almost half of your country. Save your pity to yourself..kaam ayega baad mai.


----------



## k&#7779;am&#257;

RazPaK said:


> If India gives the Kashmiris the right to independence, then it will find itself in a favorable situation from Pakistan.
> 
> Then there will be no hard feelings towards India.
> 
> Indians fail to realize this.



DO one thing ask ur so call GOP to surrender back the stolen Kashmir to India and we promise not to kill u.


----------



## Abhishek_

RazPaK said:


> I would personally go to Kashmir, If I had the knowledge of your cowardly self being present.
> 
> You hindus do not scare us. Rather, we feel pity for you.


you're welcome to visit. all i request is to apply for proper visa rather than sneaking in like some of your "brave" warriors. i hear it's pleasant this time of year.


----------



## RazPaK

jaunty said:


> India hasn't lost an inch since independence, in fact gained quite a few. On the contrary you lost almost half of your country. Save your pity to yourself..kaam ayega baad mai.




Half?

Can you provide statistical data?

Bangladesh was not even a sixth.

And although they have separated from us, they still hate India, and not Pakistan. 



Abhishek_ said:


> you're welcome to visit. all i request is to apply for proper visa rather than sneaking in like some of your "brave" warriors. i hear it's pleasant this time of year.



We can make it very pleasant when we hang your men's heads off pikes.


----------



## Abhishek_

RazPaK said:


> If India gives the Kashmiris the right to independence, then it will find itself in a favorable situation from Pakistan.
> Then there will be no hard feelings towards India.
> Indians fail to realize this.


underlying assumption of your argument being Indians care what pakistan thinks of them. facepalm


----------



## walwal

RazPaK said:


> I would personally go to Kashmir, If I had the knowledge of your cowardly self being present.
> 
> *You hindus do not scare us.*
> 
> 
> Rather, we feel pity for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Worry about your maoists. Hear they have been making lots of noise.



Poor you ! This is the problem with you people. The Indian posters here are talking as INDIANS and NOT HINDUS. On the other hand you are creating a scare-monger as if Hindus are frightening you. Have some oxygen dude.


----------



## RazPaK

k&#7779;am&#257;;3475416 said:


> DO one thing ask ur so call GOP to surrender back the stolen Kashmir to India and we promise not to kill u.



Kill us?

You cowards are not even praiseworthy.


----------



## karan21

RazPaK said:


> If India gives the Kashmiris the right to independence, then it will find itself in a favorable situation from Pakistan.
> 
> Then there will be no hard feelings towards India.
> 
> Indians fail to realize this.



yeah man its soo like like posting on PDF. Give independence all hard fellings gone, dosti hoogi lol. Yaara you are very emotional. 

This is not a roadside cricket game. Whats the guarentee that Pakistan will not invade it if independence is given. We can't trust your army and don't ask me why??


----------



## walwal

RazPaK said:


> Half?
> 
> 
> And although they have separated from us, they still hate India, and not Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> .



Blame it on empty headed mullahs


----------



## Abhishek_

RazPaK said:


> Kill us?
> 
> You cowards are not even praiseworthy.


killing isn't needed. you are much more suited for mass surrenders. transporting you is a pita though.


----------



## RazPaK

walwal said:


> Poor you ! This is the problem with you people. The Indian posters here are talking as INDIANS and NOT HINDUS. On the other hand you are creating a scare-monger as if Hindus are frightening you. Have some oxygen dude.



Hindus, and Indian servants do not scare us. It makes me laugh, even living in the US.

Take care.


----------



## yyetttt

karan21 said:


> The problem with you is that you only and only think like a Pakistani. A goo d diplomat thinks both ways before taking decisions.
> 
> 1. Just for a moment think like an Indian. If India lets Kashmir off for Independence, then within Hours Pakistan army will launch an offence on the basis that Kashmiris want to join Pak likw 1948. India will have to respond and kashmiris will again be buries under both nations. So independence is not even an option, don't even for a second think that India will will give independence.
> 
> 2. If India agrees of giving Kashmir to Pak, we loose critical regions and locations against China, which we cant afford. Next, Kashmiris have freedom movements. So even after joining Pakistan it will be a troubled state with groups still fighting for freedom. Third, Pakistan currently is not even capable of taking care of its own country, its almost bankrupt and in crisis, sorry but it can't handle another 4 crore people.
> 
> Best is to keep what we have and develop our regions for peace and cooperation.



Are you kidding me?


First try to atleast feed 70% of your population, and quench the 150 seperatists movments in India, and then talk kiddo


----------



## Abhishek_

RazPaK said:


> We can make it very pleasant when we hang your men's heads off pikes.


feel free to try, although GOP is singing a different tune entirely.


----------



## jaunty

RazPaK said:


> Half?
> 
> Can you provide statistical data?
> 
> Bangladesh was not even a sixth.
> 
> And although they have separated from us, they still hate India, and not Pakistan.



LMAO. yeah it doesn't matter cause it was only sixth and they hate India ha ha ha ha


----------



## RazPaK

Abhishek_ said:


> killing isn't needed. you are much more suited for mass surrenders. transporting you is a pita though.



Surrender? Like your first brigade that set foot in Lahore?

We pity you.

A conflict now will expose your weakness.


----------



## walwal

RazPaK said:


> Hindus, and Indian servants do not scare us. It makes me laugh, even living in the US.
> 
> Take care.



Thank you indeed


----------



## Agnostic_Indian

RazPaK said:


> If India gives the Kashmiris the right to independence, then it will find itself in a favorable situation from Pakistan.
> 
> Then there will be no hard feelings towards India.
> 
> Indians fail to realize this.



Pakistanis can hold on to their hard feelings, we prefer to have Kashmir with us.

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## Abhishek_

RazPaK said:


> A conflict now will expose your weakness.


odd isn't it, pakistan is falling head over heels to please india with MFN status and freezing kashmir issues for a decade.


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## Jackdaws

No Pakistani ever seems to answer this question -

You keep demanding Kashmir's "freedom". From August 1947 to October 1947 - Kashmir was free. Free from India, free from Pakistan - a buffer state like Nepal. Why did you invade it in the first place?

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## karan21

RazPaK said:


> Hindus, and Indian servants do not scare us. It makes me laugh, even living in the US.
> 
> Take care.



So you are calling me a servant man come on. Bro We Punjabis rule this nation not hindus .

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## walwal

Agnostic_Indian said:


> Pakistanis can hold on to their hard feelings, we prefer to have Kashmir with us.



Absolutely. Who cares about hard feelings. Let them nourish and cuddle lifelong


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## Abhishek_

karan21 said:


> So you are calling me a servant man come on. Bro We sikhs rule this nation not hindus .


tru dat, punjabis rule

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## yyetttt

Abhishek_ said:


> odd isn't it, pakistan is falling head over heels to please india with MFN status and freezing kashmir issues for a decade.



And then a BSF officer gets shot...


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## BLEND

I dont think India will ever let Kashmir go away as one can see so many infrastructure projects going on and a lot more to come.
May be we could see normalisation in situation.


----------



## Abhishek_

jellodragon said:


> And then a BSF officer gets shot...


a price we have paid, and continue to pay. no issues there.


----------



## arp2041

RazPaK said:


> If India gives the Kashmiris the right to independence, then it will find itself in a favorable situation from Pakistan.
> 
> Then there will be no hard feelings towards India.
> 
> Indians fail to realize this.



It's better that India has an enemy in the name of Pakistan, British PM Winston Churchill once said:

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

If a country don't have an enemy, it often taken it's position for granted & deviates from the targeted goals.


----------



## k&#7779;am&#257;

RazPaK said:


> Kill us?
> 
> You cowards are not even praiseworthy.



Yup u terrorist are


----------



## karan21

jellodragon you are gone, icewolf is banned too. Time to make a new account bro.


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## jha

*An unposted letter to PM Singh*



> *Mr Singh, many Pakistanis will refuse to openly admit this but most of us would like to be considered eligible for Indian nationality.* The reason behind our desire to move is extremely simple. It is because India since 1947 has grown as a nation, an economy and a country. Despite of the poverty and other related issues, we all see India as a progressive society and in a very positive light. We all want to live in a country which is ruled by secular politicians where fascist elements are given minimum representation in the parliament; a country where people can coexist or at least consider this ideology a welcoming thought.


----------



## arp2041

jellodragon said:


> Not surprising when Indian Occupied Kashmiris do this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And finally this:



The very fact that u have pics of Pakistani flags waving in an important place like Lal Chowk of Srinagar is the evidence of how great Indian democracy is, i mean many people, all over the world, have hatred or ill-will towards there own country but they cannot show this in open. What had happened to a person in Baluchistan if he was waving the Baluchi flag or a person in Tibet if he was waving the Tibetan flag??? He would have been shot in a matter of just few mins, but in India WE ARE A DEMOCRACY, & we respect human life.

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## BLEND

Dont know why people bring in religion when the thread demands some value opinions.


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## yyetttt

arp2041 said:


> The very fact that u have pics of Pakistani flags waving in an important place like Lal Chowk of Srinagar is the evidence of how great Indian democracy is, i mean many people, all over the world, have hatred or ill-will towards there own country but they cannot show this in open. What had happened to a person in Baluchistan if he was waving the Baluchi flag or a person in Tibet if he was waving the Tibetan flag??? He would have been shot in a matter of just few mins, but in India WE ARE A DEMOCRACY, & we respect human life.



You are wrong. The police and the govt is just too scared to scatter all these people. If there weren't much people, they would open fire like this:


----------



## BLEND

arp2041 said:


> The very fact that u have pics of Pakistani flags waving in an important place like Lal Chowk of Srinagar is the evidence of how great Indian democracy is, i mean many people, all over the world, have hatred or ill-will towards there own country but they cannot show this in open. What had happened to a person in Baluchistan if he was waving the Baluchi flag or a person in Tibet if he was waving the Tibetan flag??? He would have been shot in a matter of just few mins, but in India WE ARE A DEMOCRACY, & we respect human life.



The Pakistanis are yet to feel what Democracy is. May be future government in Pakistan will give them this chance, as this could be there only hope.


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## k&#7779;am&#257;

deleted post


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## BLEND

jellodragon said:


> You are wrong. The police and the govt is just too scared to scatter all these people. If there weren't much people, they would open fire like this:



For your information that is 'tear gas'.

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## yyetttt

k&#7779;am&#257;;3475511 said:


> The answer is quite simple, A religion is nothing but an unwritten rule set which guides a person through his day. The people in Indian subcontinent though being tolerant dinn accept any other version of the same rule set.



Its why half of the sub continent is Muslim...



BLEND said:


> For your information that is 'tear gas'.



And this?

Indian police open fire on Kashmir demonstrators
By Amy Kazmin in New Delhi
Indian paramilitary forces opened fire on angry anti-India protestors in several different parts of the troubled Muslim-majority state of Kashmir on Friday, killing at least three people, critically injuring a fourth and injuring scores of others.
Violence in the restive Himalayan valley initially erupted in the morning, as residents of Srinagar, the capital, heeded a separatist call to defy a curfew imposed across the city. As young men chanting anti-India slogans hurled stones at paramilitary police trying to enforce the curfew, the security forces opened fire, wounding two young men &#8211; one critically.
News of the injury spread, inflaming already high tensions, and fuelling violent protests across the Kashmir valley.
In Sopore town, more than 1,500 people clashed with security forces, who opened fire on the crowd &#8211; killing a 55-year-old man and a 20-year-old, and wounding others. In Baramulla, an angry mob reportedly attacked a police station, and set it on fire, with nine police officers inside, who were all later rescued.
Authorities were still struggling on Friday evening to assess the full toll from various clashes, but hospitals told Kashmiri journalists that they were treating at least 30 people with bullet wounds.
Critics said that India had created an explosive situation by failing to recognise the depth of Kashmiri anger, and suppressing any space for peaceful, civilian protest.
&#8220;They have turned Kashmir into a prison,&#8221; said Farrukh Faheem, a Delhi University professor who comes from Kashmir, and has studied the history of militancy in the valley. &#8220;You are not allowed to have a peaceful protest. You are not allowed to express your view of Facebook . What the state is trying to convey is that &#8216;no matter what you do, we are going to crush you.&#8217;&#8221;
India has been struggling for nearly two months manage an eruption of Kashmiri rage against its heavy-handed rule, and a string of human rights abuses by the heavily armed security forces who maintain an overbearing presence in the region, despite the sharp decline in militancy over the last few years.
In recent months, crowds of angry youth, many of whom grew up at the height of Kashmir&#8217;s armed separatist insurgency &#8211; and its brutal suppression by Indian security forces, have been mounting almost suicidal attacks on heavily-armed security forces, pelting them with stones, and in some cases rushing their police posts.
Before Fridays&#8217;s clashes, at least 17 civilians, including a woman and a nine-year-old boy, had been killed in retaliatory police firing over the last six weeks, adding to the public outrage.
In a bid to restore order, the government called the army onto the streets of Srinagar this month, and an estimated 1400 youth, including numerous teenage boys younger than 18, have been rounded up under strict public security laws that allow them to be held for up to two years without trial. Many of these detainees are now being held in Srinagar prison, where they are being held alongside at least 24 hardened foreign Islamist militants, serving life sentences for murder and other serious crimes.
The Muslim-majority Kashmir region, famed for its natural beauty, has been at the centre of three wars between India and Pakistan, which both claim it as their own. Nearly 70,000 people have died in the region since the 1989 eruption of a Pakistan-based separatist insurgency in the region, and the ruthless Indian countermeasures.
Militant violence has dropped sharply since 2006, but the region remains heavily militarised, with security forces maintaining a highly visible presence in towns and villages across the state.
Srinagar has been almost totally shut down for the last six weeks, alternatively by curfews imposed by authorities, or strikes called by separatists.


----------



## k&#7779;am&#257;

jellodragon said:


> Its why half of the sub continent is Muslim...



Though this comment was not meant for this thread, I cross posted it. Even then I could not make a sense from your return.


----------



## Neuro

jellodragon said:


> *Brave Indian Army open firing on Kashmris*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brave Indian Army beating up Kashmiri civilians



wat about this?

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## BLEND

jellodragon said:


> Its why half of the sub continent is Muslim...
> 
> 
> 
> And this?
> 
> Indian police open fire on Kashmir demonstrators
> By Amy Kazmin in New Delhi
> Indian paramilitary forces opened fire on angry anti-India protestors in several different parts of the troubled Muslim-majority state of Kashmir on Friday, killing at least three people, critically injuring a fourth and injuring scores of others.
> Violence in the restive Himalayan valley initially erupted in the morning, as residents of Srinagar, the capital, heeded a separatist call to defy a curfew imposed across the city. As young men chanting anti-India slogans hurled stones at paramilitary police trying to enforce the curfew, the security forces opened fire, wounding two young men &#8211; one critically.
> News of the injury spread, inflaming already high tensions, and fuelling violent protests across the Kashmir valley.
> In Sopore town, more than 1,500 people clashed with security forces, who opened fire on the crowd &#8211; killing a 55-year-old man and a 20-year-old, and wounding others. In Baramulla, an angry mob reportedly attacked a police station, and set it on fire, with nine police officers inside, who were all later rescued.
> Authorities were still struggling on Friday evening to assess the full toll from various clashes, but hospitals told Kashmiri journalists that they were treating at least 30 people with bullet wounds.
> Critics said that India had created an explosive situation by failing to recognise the depth of Kashmiri anger, and suppressing any space for peaceful, civilian protest.
> &#8220;They have turned Kashmir into a prison,&#8221; said Farrukh Faheem, a Delhi University professor who comes from Kashmir, and has studied the history of militancy in the valley. &#8220;You are not allowed to have a peaceful protest. You are not allowed to express your view of Facebook . What the state is trying to convey is that &#8216;no matter what you do, we are going to crush you.&#8217;&#8221;
> India has been struggling for nearly two months manage an eruption of Kashmiri rage against its heavy-handed rule, and a string of human rights abuses by the heavily armed security forces who maintain an overbearing presence in the region, despite the sharp decline in militancy over the last few years.
> In recent months, crowds of angry youth, many of whom grew up at the height of Kashmir&#8217;s armed separatist insurgency &#8211; and its brutal suppression by Indian security forces, have been mounting almost suicidal attacks on heavily-armed security forces, pelting them with stones, and in some cases rushing their police posts.
> Before Fridays&#8217;s clashes, at least 17 civilians, including a woman and a nine-year-old boy, had been killed in retaliatory police firing over the last six weeks, adding to the public outrage.
> In a bid to restore order, the government called the army onto the streets of Srinagar this month, and an estimated 1400 youth, including numerous teenage boys younger than 18, have been rounded up under strict public security laws that allow them to be held for up to two years without trial. Many of these detainees are now being held in Srinagar prison, where they are being held alongside at least 24 hardened foreign Islamist militants, serving life sentences for murder and other serious crimes.
> The Muslim-majority Kashmir region, famed for its natural beauty, has been at the centre of three wars between India and Pakistan, which both claim it as their own. Nearly 70,000 people have died in the region since the 1989 eruption of a Pakistan-based separatist insurgency in the region, and the ruthless Indian countermeasures.
> Militant violence has dropped sharply since 2006, but the region remains heavily militarised, with security forces maintaining a highly visible presence in towns and villages across the state.
> Srinagar has been almost totally shut down for the last six weeks, alternatively by curfews imposed by authorities, or strikes called by separatists.



That was very big problem so India turned to this new crowd control weapons.

Watch this

[video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/fromndtv/247913[/video]


----------



## Jango

Neuro said:


> wat about this?



That man was caught stealing from people in the park, and then when he reached for the gun of the soldier (or so it seemed), a bullet went off.

It were the rangers afterwards who took him to hospital as well.


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## karan21

nuclearpak said:


> That man was caught stealing from people in the park, and then when he reached for the gun of the soldier (or so it seemed), a bullet went off.
> 
> It were the rangers afterwards who took him to hospital as well.


dude he dies right there.

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## Aleesha

Pakistanisage said:


> Trust me Friend, Kashmir will be soon India's " Toota huwa Ung " after it breaks away from India.




Well Said...


----------



## Jango

karan21 said:


> dude he dies right there.



He might have gone unconscious, but he didn't die right there. He was taken to hospital.

Point still stands, he was stealing various items from park goers, and somebody caught him and dragged him to the Ranger mobile. He went for the nose of the gun, possibly creating doubt in the mind of the ranger that he might wrestle it from him, and a fire went off.


----------



## mjnaushad

EzioAltaïr;3475043 said:


> I was expecting that. Mind you, I won't say anything before repeatedly ensuring I can vindicate my claims. Here ya go:
> 
> Human rights abuses in Azad Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Or is it RAW propaganda now?



Lets compare

Human rights abuses in Jammu and Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## mjnaushad

nuclearpak said:


> He might have gone unconscious, but he didn't die right there. He was taken to hospital.
> 
> Point still stands, he was stealing various items from park goers, and somebody caught him and dragged him to the Ranger mobile. He went for the nose of the gun, possibly creating doubt in the mind of the ranger that he might wrestle it from him, and a fire went off.



Why are your arguing ???.... When Indian media said he was "Nihatta Masoon Shehri" then he must be....Dont deny the words of god.

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## ajtr

lkozhi said:


> Change is happening
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting the video shows the dwindling support. Refreshing change for sure.


lol.....................epic Ad....so change is what kashmir wants.......................here is my 1 paisa change









pahale bolna tha ke change chahiye.de deti mere paas bahut change pada hai............


----------



## anilindia

mjnaushad said:


> Lets compare
> 
> Human rights abuses in Jammu and Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Lets compare...
'UN concerned over human rights violations in Pak

Op-ed - Pakistan Leads in Human Rights Violations - Worldpress.org


----------



## mjnaushad

anilindia said:


> Lets compare...
> 'UN concerned over human rights violations in Pak
> 
> Op-ed - Pakistan Leads in Human Rights Violations - Worldpress.org



Baluchistan is not a disputed territory with India or any other nation...... Doesn't count.

but if you want 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_India


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## Paan Singh

mjnaushad said:


> Baluchistan is not a disputed territory with India or any other nation...... Doesn't count.




Bangladesh was not even disputed  ..so u getting my drift?


----------



## abhishekgoel80

jellodragon said:


> Kashmiris hate India
> 
> Brave Indian Army!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brave Indian police:



To be specific its J&k Police recruited from among the people of J&K and controlled by the people of J&K. Now don't know whether they are trying to control a miscreant thief or whatever that you termed them.


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## mjnaushad

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> Bangladesh was not even disputed  ..so u getting my drift?



Are you talking about cross border terrorism by India..... Yeah we all know India is terrorist country what else?


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## karan.1970

mjnaushad said:


> Are you talking about cross border terrorism by India..... Yeah we all know India is terrorist country what else?



 and what agency is supposed to be using UNSC designated terrorists as its veritable arm.. And which country's ex ISI head is being tried for terrorism related charges in NY courts..?? and which country has a UNSC designated terrorist like Hafeez Saeed a major force in the main stream politics ???


----------



## anilindia

mjnaushad said:


> Baluchistan is not a disputed territory with India or any other nation...... Doesn't count.
> 
> but if you want
> 
> Human rights in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



In your report its written:

" According to the United States Library of Congress, although human rights problems do exist in India, the country is generally not regarded as a human rights concern, unlike other countries in South Asia.[1] Based on these considerations, the 2010 report of Freedom in the World by Freedom House gave India a political rights rating of 2, and a civil liberties rating of 3, earning it the highest possible rating of free[2] "


----------



## karan.1970

jellodragon said:


> Kashmiris hate India
> 
> Brave Indian Army!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brave Indian police:




This is patriotic Kashmiri police kicking the but ts of separatist morons.. A sight for sore eyes


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## Paan Singh

mjnaushad said:


> Are you talking about cross border terrorism by India..... Yeah we all know India is terrorist country what else?



 

samjdaar ko ishara hi kaafi hai  and so advice will be like ..


You shud keep ur self away from kashmir and stick to toes


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## Ammyy

Frustrated pakistani and their dreams ..lol

Abe kitna bhi roo lo kashmir hamara tha or rahega


----------



## mjnaushad

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> samjdaar ko ishara hi kaafi hai  and so advice will be like ..
> 
> 
> You shud keep ur self away from kashmir and stick to toes



so you are saying India as always support terrorism in other countries..... Nothing new.


----------



## Ammyy

@mnaushad... may be due to this all terror link ends with pakistan ..lol


----------



## Paan Singh

mjnaushad said:


> so you are saying India as always support terrorism in other countries..... Nothing new.




WE dont but you forced us and we replied


----------



## anilindia

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> WE dont but you forced us and we replied



No yaar its not true. We give only moral and diplomatic support to balouchistan, Sindudesh......No military support from Afganistan side...


----------



## Lenin

All the disciples of Zaid hamid are on this thread......come on pakistani bros we some more entertainment


----------



## Jade

So few people.

Is it what remains after 20 years of Pak sponsored terrorism in Kashmir ?


----------



## OrionHunter

RayKalm said:


> Change is happening: Kashimiri students, first time ever, sing Pakistani anthem.


What utter bullsh!t is this? This is neither Kashmir University nor are these Kashmir Univ students! *This video is from somewhere in Pakistan Administered Kashmir!!*






Even if it was Indian Kashmir, these couple of dozen goons have obviously been hired by the likes of the Hurriyat Conference for furthering their agenda.

Thirdly, *no one save for a handful want anything to do with Pakistan seeing where it is headed! 
*

So our Pakistani friends shouldn't go all ga-ga over this utter tripe!


----------



## anilindia

Md Usman said:


> I am not sure about the fate of Kashmir but I am sure about Balochistan. We have hundreds of thousands of issue in our own country but we bother to think about Kashmir which we will never get. We never thought that much about karachi, Lahore, FATA the way we think abt Kashmir.is kashmir k chakar mai East Pakistan gaya aur agar yeahi haal raha to maloom nahi kya kya jayega.



You are right bro. Lets explain this to pak army.


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## Jackdaws

Why this unhealthy obsession with Kashmir for Pakistan though? What difference does it make to the life of the average Pakistani if the current borders are permanent?

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## Jade

Now compare the OP video to this video

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## Jade

Jackdaws said:


> Why this unhealthy obsession with Kashmir for Pakistan though? What difference does it make to the life of the average Pakistani if the current borders are permanent?



obsession and rationality doesn't go hand in hand


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## airmarshal

Kashmir has never been part of India. Why dont Indians just accept that? Its an occupied territory. It has mass graves, high density military presence. If it was part of India, this would not have been happening there. 

Why do Kashmiris celebrate Pakistan Independence day? Why do they chant Pakistan zindabad slogans when Pakistan wins cricket match? There is a lot to think about for Indians and they should stop blaming us for their woes. They have created these problems by occupying the part of the land which is not and will never be theirs.

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## Seaman

Where is kashmir? Ans.It is in india and by posting this on forums kashmir will nt gotta become a part of pakistan.


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## OrionHunter

airmarshal said:


> Kashmir has never been part of India. Why dont Indians just accept that? Its an occupied territory.


Pakistan administered Kashmir has never been part of Pakistan. Why don't Pakistanis just accept that? Its an occupied territory. 



> Why do Kashmiris celebrate Pakistan Independence day?


They don't! Period! Except of course for that lame duck caboodle called the Hurriyat Conference, and their caddies. 



> Why do they chant Pakistan zindabad slogans when Pakistan wins cricket match?


No more! That's history. 



> There is a lot to think about for Indians and they should stop blaming us for their woes. They have created these problems by occupying the part of the land which is not and will never be theirs.


There is a lot to think about for Pakistanis and they should stop blaming us for their woes. They have created these problems by occupying the part of the land which is not and will never be theirs.


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## Aleesha

Kashmir is the Land of Muslims and One Day It will get rid of the cruel Indians, INSHaALLAH

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## Mirza Jatt

seems a like a doctored video to me ..especially at 1.32 seconds students are seen cheering a bus leaving the place...seems a different issue and since the faces were covered it is not possible to see the lipsing while we hear the words. Anyways..on topic:

........we give a horse ar$e..if 20 kids protested in the garden to impress the girls in the college. If anyone could take Kashmir from India, they could have already done it...now go make more such videos.

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## Seaman

All muslims are not pakistans,,first we respect our nation then we think abt religion,

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## Aleesha

Seaman said:


> All muslims are not pakistans,,



Kashmir is a soul part of Pakistan, and Pakistan belongs to Muslims.

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## KRAIT

Ask any Muslim in India, is he Muslim first or Indian first. All Indians know the answer.

Industries are planning to move in, tourism rising, Kashmiri premier League, many other development activities, Kashmir is doing fine after so many years witnessing cross border terrorism.


----------



## KRAIT

Ask any Muslim in India, is he Muslim first or Indian first. All Indians know the answer.

Industries are planning to move in, tourism rising, Kashmiri premier League, many other development activities, Kashmir is doing fine after so many years witnessing cross border terrorism.


----------



## Seaman

Not ur fault brother its pakistan,s media,books,politics,goverment fault that they gotta make u guys learn and listen from childhood that kashmir is a part of pakistan......


----------



## IND151

airmarshal said:


> *Kashmir has never been part of India. *Why dont Indians just accept that? Its an occupied territory. It has mass graves, high density military presence. If it was part of India, this would not have been happening there.
> 
> Why do Kashmiris celebrate Pakistan Independence day? Why do they chant Pakistan zindabad slogans when Pakistan wins cricket match? There is a lot to think about for Indians and they should stop blaming us for their woes. They have created these problems by occupying the part of the land which is not and will never be theirs.



do you know the meaning of name *Kashmir?*

this land was home to hindus, buddhists till 12th century; muslims came later



> The *Buddhist Mauryan emperor Ashoka* is often credited with having founded the old capital of Kashmir, Shrinagari, now ruins on the outskirts of modern Srinagar. Kashmir was long to be a stronghold of Buddhism.[3]



http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...5IH4BA&usg=AFQjCNHXdPvms7Rf4pgspJxV9NwG4J83DA


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## Elmo

Kashmir threads in "Kashmir" subforum only!


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## IND151

Aleesha said:


> Kashmir is a soul part of Pakistan, and *Pakistan belongs to Muslims.*



sir, i think that white part of your national flag suggests something otherwise


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## DESERT FIGHTER

IND151 said:


> do you know the meaning of name *Kashmir?*
> 
> this land was home to hindus, buddhists till 12th century; *muslims came later
> *
> 
> 
> http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...5IH4BA&usg=AFQjCNHXdPvms7Rf4pgspJxV9NwG4J83DA




Muslims didnt come from the outside but converted... Kashmiris became muslims.....and for most of its history it remained a muslim kingdom under a muslim Amir till the dogras bought it from the british.

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## Jackdaws

airmarshal said:


> Kashmir has never been part of India. Why dont Indians just accept that? Its an occupied territory. It has mass graves, high density military presence. If it was part of India, this would not have been happening there.
> 
> Why do Kashmiris celebrate Pakistan Independence day? Why do they chant Pakistan zindabad slogans when Pakistan wins cricket match? There is a lot to think about for Indians and they should stop blaming us for their woes. They have created these problems by occupying the part of the land which is not and will never be theirs.



This argument is circular. Kashmir was a free country from August 1947 to October 1947 - like Nepal or Bhutan. Why did Pakistan invade it?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Jackdaws said:


> This argument is circular. Kashmir was a free country from August 1947 to October 1947 - like Nepal or Bhutan. Why did Pakistan invade it?



Why were dogra forces commiting kashmiri genocide? killing 2.7 lac kashmiris and looting burning villages tht could be seen from murree hills and kashmiri refugees were coming to jehlum valley in Pakistan?while ww2 veteran from kashmir were requesting GoP for help.

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## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> Ask any Muslim in India, is he Muslim first or Indian first. All Indians know the answer.
> 
> Industries are planning to move in, tourism rising, Kashmiri premier League, many other development activities, Kashmir is doing fine after so many years witnessing cross border terrorism.


*I'm muslim First.............................*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Jackdaws i suggest u read: Crossed Swords: Pakistan Its Army and its Wars within.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...pIHAAw&usg=AFQjCNHX4KZJJtWmceVRvikisIvaklCa1g

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## KRAIT

Isolated cases. One Youtube video doesn't tell entire story. Few dozens against the argument in a population of 100s of millions Muslim population is insignificant data. 

Cite example from international journals with case strength over or subjects over tens of thousands ranging for many years to support the claim.


----------



## Ticker

Jackdaws said:


> This argument is circular. Kashmir was a free country from August 1947 to October 1947 - like Nepal or Bhutan. Why did Pakistan invade it?



No Sir,

Indians invaded first and not the Pathans. Surprisingly, this fact is not even known to many Pakistanis as well. 

The invasion of Kashmir was planned by Hindu Indians and their leaders much before the Pathan ingresses in to Kashmir to save the Muslims from being completely massacred by marauding Hindu invaders from India. It was all started by and planned in meetings between rulers of Alwar, Kapurthala and Patiala etc with Maharaja of Kashmir, in complete knowledge of Hindu Indian leaders. 

And, the intrusion of Pathans has been blamed for everything. However, does any of you even know that after the 1947 pogrom in Punjab where Muslims were killed in millions in order to ethnically cleanse the areas and change the demography, where did these marauding Hindu and Sikh hordes were sent to? No you wouldn&#8217;t know or probably wouldn&#8217;t want to acknowledge it &#8211; these hordes were sent to Jammu to loot, rape, abduct and kill Muslims.

As planned, in the initial instance, they intended to ethnically cleanse areas of Jammu where Muslims were in minority. Between July and October 47, over 500,000 Muslims were thrown out of their homes, out of which 200,000 thousand were killed and about 300,000 were forced to emigrate to Pakistan. This was the first stage of this operation. The Pathans came to safeguard the Muslims from hordes of marauding Sikhs and fundamentalist Hindus.

May I recommend more study of actual history than what is being taught in Indian school and college system and propagated in India.

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## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> Isolated cases. One Youtube video doesn't tell entire story. Few dozens against the argument in a population of 100s of millions Muslim population is insignificant data.
> 
> Cite example from international journals with case strength over or subjects over tens of thousands ranging for many years to support the claim.


How many muslims you want to proclaim it.........

Even i say i'm muslim first ...indian second.

When it will come to choosing between islam and india....we will choose islam first.

And it does overwhelmingly proves majority are muslim first then indian.

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## Paan Singh

ajtr said:


> How many muslims you want to proclaim it.........
> 
> Even i say *i'm muslim first ...indian second.*
> 
> When it will come to choosing between islam and india....we will choose islam first.
> 
> And it does overwhelmingly proves majority are muslim first then indian.




This is the root of all problems.I feel,if muslims starts to consider themselves as national first then there would be a huge jump in their contribution.


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## KRAIT

No one cares what you think , you were Hindu first now you are Muslim. So before transition,you followed Hinduism and now Islam. Good for you. You got best from both the religion. But it doesn't mean all Muslims thinks your way especially those who are born Muslims. 

You don't like India. You hate its people, its govt. its armed forces and god knows what. So your statement can't be applied here. Don't put yourself in the category of our beloved Muslim brothers who always thinks of India first. Even* Sania Mirza consider herself as Indian first as she still plays for India*, so is Shabana Azmi, list is too long. One can't compare you with them if we are comparing person to person. 


I don't care what people of other nations thinks, all I know is Muslim in India always considered them Indian first. You are just a outlier in a concentrated data.

Give me a research article or data with thousands of case studies.


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## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> No one cares what you think , you were Hindu first now you are Muslim. So before transition,you followed Hinduism and now Islam. Good for you. You got best from both the religion. But it doesn't mean all Muslims thinks your way especially those who are born Muslims.


Does it trouble you that i get best of both religions?

I think answer to the question muslim first or indian first you might have got during the protests on the mumbai roads when those amar jawans were smashed.



> *You don't like India. You hate its people*, its govt. its armed forces and god knows what. So *your statement can't be applied here*. Don't put yourself in the category of our beloved Muslim brothers who always thinks of India first. Even* Sania Mirza consider herself as Indian first as she still plays for India*, so is Shabana Azmi, list is too long. One can't compare you with them if we are comparing person to person.


And who are you to proclaim all this?
As for sania sabana did you ask that question to both?
Even i hold the indian passport like them.





> I don't care what people of other nations thinks, all I know is Muslim in India always considered them Indian first. You are just a outlier in a concentrated data.
> 
> Give me a research article or data with thousands of case studies.


Religion is not your research paper.And as for Islam you are not worth it.

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## Jackdaws

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Why were dogra forces commiting kashmiri genocide? killing 2.7 lac kashmiris and looting burning villages tht could be seen from murree hills and kashmiri refugees were coming to jehlum valley in Pakistan?while ww2 veteran from kashmir were requesting GoP for help.



Really? Do you have any source of this information? In 10 weeks between August '47 and October'47 that all of this happened?

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## KRAIT

I got best from what I wanted. If one finds knowledge from one religion, what's the problem. I am content with it. 

Those rioters are people like you who disrespect Indian soldiers. So even they are opposed by rest of the Muslims too. 

I can proclaim considering your posts about India and its people. After all we select these same elite class that rules and oppress people whom you advocate as freedom fighters. You have proved this point yourself.

*Did you asked each and every Muslim in India when you say ALL Muslims in India consider themselves Muslim first ?* So your argument that whether I asked them or not doesn't hold. Actions speak louder than words, I gave perfect example of Saniza Mirza. 

Religion is not my research paper but I do study propagation of idea in a dynamic population. Remember a religion is something that depends on three factors:

1. Individual choice: Its called coefficient of innovation sometime. One person observes and read then change to some religion. 
Media or External factors: One person reads books, surf internet and gets to know about certain religion, find it better and hence converts.

2. Word Of Mouth. One person listens to another person from a certain religion, finds other person's religion better and convert.

3. Social influence. One preson observes the growing number of same religion people in a society. It exerts pressure on them to convert.

You want me to quote research article. 
*
I have published research articles in International journals on Spread of new ideas(Other Religion A will be new for the person following B religion) in a dynamic population (India is a dynamic population.) and effect of external influences, word of mouth and social influences. 

I have also taken birth and death rate, immigration and emigration of population of other religion and its effect in spreading of an idea or Religion in our case.*

All the journals are peer reviewed and over 2 impact factor. So yeah, I know more about the process.


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## Ticker

When Hindutvadi laden Indians proclaim that everybody in India is a Hindu, the minorities, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, and Muslims etc feel that they are not accepted in India because of not accepting Hinduism as a religion. 

Destruction of mosques and burning of Churches, desecration of Sikh Shrines etc exacerbate such a feeling - the refuge, only in religion and ghettization for survival. 

Conversion from Hindu religion, particularly by females, raises hatred to an extent which is unfathomable. 

@ajtr is a victim here for everybody to see and open their eyes. 

The brave Hindu Indians here go to any length to demean her and insult her - and then say, it is not because of religion. Yet they bring in this factor one way or the other and can not hide their dispicability present in their minds. 

Shame indeed.

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## Ticker

Jackdaws said:


> Really? Do you have any source of this information? In 10 weeks between August '47 and October'47 that all of this happened?



Yes it did. If this is not covered in history books written by Indians, it is not anybody's fault. But it has been written and quoted in books - I am sure these books are not available in India - and for a reason. 

Just calculate the time period in which literally millions of Muslims had to leave their town and villages only from Indian Punjab during the independence. How many were killed mercilessly. How many mosques, which ran in tens of thousands, now remain in Indian Punjab alone. 

These are facts about which we all have to open our eyes to and learn to live with, if not learn to forget.

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## Jackdaws

While it commendable that people _state_ they are Indian first, and Hindu later - _facts_ do not bear this out. There are many aspects of Hinduism which directly contradict the Indian constitution. But people stick to those aspects of Hinduism rather than the constitution - e.g.

1. Open matrimonials - even though we are not supposed to discriminate among our fellow countrymen -we do so on the basis of religion, linguistic identity, ethnicity - even skin color. 

2. Discrimination against women - practiced at the societal level although expressly forbidden in the constitution.

I could go on.

Except in cases of external aggression and in cases of sport - we are always more Hindu than Indian, irrespective of what we state.



Ticker said:


> Yes it did. If this is not covered in history books written by Indians, it is not anybody's fault. But it has been written and quoted in books - I am sure these books are not available in India - and for a reason.
> 
> Just calculate the time period in which literally millions of Muslims had to leave their town and villages only from Indian Punjab during the independence. How many were killed mercilessly. How many mosques, which ran in tens of thousands, now remain in Indian Punjab alone.
> 
> These are facts about which we all have to open our eyes to and learn to live with, if not learn to forget.



I've read book across the world on this subject - in the US and in Europe. I have never come across these facts. Also, if this were true - why would Pakistan sign a standstill agreement with the Maharaja of Kashmir?


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## KRAIT

Kashmiri Pundits were thrown out of Kashmir to change the demography of Kashmir. People thought removing them will increase Muslim population and Hindus population reduce, which happened. Consider the birth rate of both the religion too. 

What you have now is Muslim are more in percentage than when they were during Kashmiri Pundits living in Kashmir.

You can imagine the demography of the region if they weren't forced out and live as refugees.

Look at umber games. Density of population. Statistics. That's what explain the scenarios. My arguments are based on millions of people living in a region.

They thought after few decades, as Muslim population increases much more, almost 90-95 %, they will ask for election and people ill pick Pakistan as both were Muslim majority state.


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## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> I got best from what I wanted. If one finds knowledge from one religion, what's the problem. I am content with it.


Then why do you have problem that i get the best of two and what was your real motive to dragging it?



> Those rioters are people like you who disrespect Indian soldiers. So even they are opposed by rest of the Muslims too.


Sure you will even call those ladies of manipur extremists protesting in front of Army base with the banner..."Indian Army rape us"......



> I can proclaim considering your posts about India and its people. After all we select these same elite class that rules and oppress people whom you advocate as freedom fighters. You have proved this point yourself.


you reminds me of dialogue in matrix where morpheus says to neo that people are so hopelessly dependent on system that they will fight you to save it .such types are not ready to be freed.



> *Did you asked each and every Muslim in India when you say ALL Muslims in India consider themselves Muslim first ?* So your argument that whether I asked them or not doesn't hold. Actions speak louder than words, *I gave perfect example of Saniza Mirza.*


Sania is playing for india just coz of her professional sponsors.she has sponsors in india not pakistan.in that sense it makes even wasim as proud indian.......



> Religion is not my research paper but I do study propagation of idea in a dynamic population. Remember a religion is something that depends on three factors:
> 
> 1. Individual choice: Its called coefficient of innovation sometime. One person observes and read then change to some religion.
> Media or External factors: One person reads books, surf internet and gets to know about certain religion, find it better and hence converts.
> 
> 2. Word Of Mouth. One person listens to another person from a certain religion, finds other person's religion better and convert.
> 
> 3. Social influence. One preson observes the growing number of same religion people in a society. It exerts pressure on them to convert.
> 
> You want me to quote research article.
> *
> I have published research articles in International journals on Spread of new ideas(Other Religion A will be new for the person following B religion) in a dynamic population (India is a dynamic population.) and effect of external influences, word of mouth and social influences.
> 
> I have also taken birth and death rate, immigration and emigration of population of other religion and its effect in spreading of an idea or Religion in our case.*
> 
> All the journals are peer reviewed and over 2 impact factor. So yeah, I know more about the process.


Again as i said above you are not ready to be freed and you are not worth it.



btw yow enjoy psychoanalysis.....so do some analysis over this video and tell us the common people what u learnt from it....


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## ajtr

Ticker said:


> When Hindutvadi laden Indians proclaim that everybody in India is a Hindu, the minorities, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, and Muslims etc feel that they are not accepted in India because of not accepting Hinduism as a religion.
> 
> Destruction of mosques and burning of Churches, desecration of Sikh Shrines etc exacerbate such a feeling - the refuge, only in religion and ghettization for survival.
> 
> Conversion from Hindu religion, particularly by females, raises hatred to an extent which is unfathomable.
> 
> *@ajtr is a victim here* for everybody to see and open their eyes.
> 
> The brave Hindu Indians here go to any length to demean her and insult her - and then say, it is not because of religion. Yet they bring in this factor one way or the other and can not hide their dispicability present in their minds.
> 
> Shame indeed.


No i dont want wear victim tag up my sleeves.i know i can retort myself without anybody accusing me of playing victim on pdf.

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## KRAIT

*I dragged your religion...Wait a minute...let me post your words

Page 15, Post #218. # 222
AJTR "
Even i say i'm muslim first ...indian second."*

Using large fonts to make you notice it was you, not me, who brought you in discussion.


You dragged yourself and now blaming me. That you always do. First you bring yourself in middle and if someone disagrees with you, you call it targeting and you play victim card. You insult other people like our soldiers then expect Indians to read your statements. And your cheerleader starts defending even if he doesn't know the truth .

Again you bringing Manipur women to defend Your Rioters.?

*Are you seriously justifying those rioters ?*

*Sania doing it for sponsors not for love of this nation. Are you saying she is greedy not patriot by saying the statement. Who are you to judge her real motives *?

Can't access the video, and don't tell me what I am worthy of. Don't make me go personal then you have already made by bringing yourself as an example of Muslim who consider herself Muslim first.

You carry on your  anywhere you want and let the research do the talking. 

You are dodging the factors I raised regarding kashmir. 

Can you debate on Kashmir situation just I approached. Can you debate on demographics, immigration, emigration, effect of terrorism, tourism and other social changes affecting Kashmiris and Kashmir's stability.


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## Ticker

Jackdaws said:


> While it commendable that people _state_ they are Indian first, and Hindu later - _facts_ do not bear this out. There are many aspects of Hinduism which directly contradict the Indian constitution. But people stick to those aspects of Hinduism rather than the constitution - e.g.
> 
> 1. Open matrimonials - even though we are not supposed to discriminate among our fellow countrymen -we do so on the basis of religion, linguistic identity, ethnicity - even skin color.
> 
> 2. Discrimination against women - practiced at the societal level although expressly forbidden in the constitution.
> 
> I could go on.
> 
> Except in cases of external aggression and in cases of sport - we are always more Hindu than Indian, irrespective of what we state.
> 
> 
> 
> *I've read book across the world on this subject - in the US and in Europe. I have never come across these facts. Also, if this were true - why would Pakistan sign a standstill agreement with the Maharaja of Kashmir?*



These are facts, facts which were not propagated by Indian historians. But these facts are available in print in many books. I have a few in my library. One is written in Urdu and is a marvelous reading. I have had the occasion of personally talking to many who had suffered during that era and their families are now settled in Azad Kashmir or Pakistan. Many have moved to the UK as well.

What Pakistan and its leaders did before and immediately after partition for gaining a separate state and maintaining its freedom and sovereignty were contentious indeed. The environment were totally different - India on the other hand did not have to face what a new country like Pakistan had to.

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## karan.1970

KRAIT said:


> Kashmiri Pundits were thrown out of Kashmir to change the demography of Kashmir. People thought removing them will increase Muslim population and Hindus population reduce, which happened. Consider the birth rate of both the religion too.
> 
> What you have now is Muslim are more in percentage than when they were during Kashmiri Pundits living in Kashmir.
> 
> You can imagine the demography of the region if they weren't forced out and live as refugees.
> 
> Look at umber games. Density of population. Statistics. That's what explain the scenarios. My arguments are based on millions of people living in a region.
> 
> They thought after few decades, as Muslim population increases much more, almost 90-95 %, they will ask for election and people ill pick Pakistan as both were Muslim majority state.



The try that Pakistan made of reducing Hindu population in Kashmir thru terrorism actually has no significance any more.. Since the talk of plebiscite is as stillborn as it could be... Pakistan is now more busy trying save Balochistan and KP from breaking away from Pakistan than trying to make a move on Kashmir.. The Afghanistan strategy for India couldnt have worked any better...

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## Ticker

ajtr said:


> No i dont want wear victim tag up my sleeves.i know i can retort myself without anybody accusing me of playing victim on pdf.



Arrey .... I was not talking to you. 

I was talking about you and giving your example and it is my opinion. 

And I am always right - well almost always. 

Tumhein nahin pasand - na sahi.

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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> When Hindutvadi laden Indians proclaim that everybody in India is a Hindu, the minorities, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, and Muslims etc feel that they are not accepted in India because of not accepting Hinduism as a religion.



No need to drag the Sikhs and Buddhists or even the xtians here. They dont have a chip on their shoulders constantly whining how they are discriminated, how they are victimized, bla bla. You want to make a point on behlaf of the Muslims, go ahead, but no need for the _pakatthu elaikku payasam_ by dragging in the other minorities. Well to say frankly, minorities like SIkhs, Buddhists, Jains etc dont even consider them minority in a social milieu but only strictly number wise.



> Destruction of mosques and burning of Churches, desecration of Sikh Shrines etc exacerbate such a feeling - the refuge, only in religion and ghettization for survival.



Again ignorance. Bringing in the Sikhs, just not to be left alone. The entrance to the Sikh Shrine, the Akal Takht, was repaired and renovated at taxpayer cost and it was handed to the Sikhs along with a nation that apologized to them for the innocents killed. And Sikhs live in ghettos..lullzz..maybe in Pakistan out of fear of Mullahs, but not in India. Sikhs are very well integrated into the mainstream, as much as any one could be.

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## KRAIT

And here people say India is worst than Pakistan. Doesn't that means we are faing worse than you. Isn't it against that India is facing more tougher challenges than Pakistan.

Take one stance.

*BTW All come back to topic of Kashmir. Debate on changing Kashmiri demography, economy, tourism and social aspects. *


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## Ticker

karan.1970 said:


> The try that Pakistan made of reducing Hindu population in Kashmir thru terrorism actually has no significance any more.. Since the talk of plebiscite is as stillborn as it could be... Pakistan is now more busy trying save Balochistan and KP from breaking away from Pakistan than trying to make a move on Kashmir.. The Afghanistan strategy for India couldnt have worked any better...



The scare was created by the then Indian Government which initiated and started the exodus of Pandits from Kashmir. 

Your government wanted to achieve certain objects through the exit of Pandits. It failed and then did not have even a bit of courtesy to either accept its follies, or properly look after these poor people and blamed it all on Kashmiris. This is a fact - you guys will never accept it because the blame falls on India rather than the freedom fighters.



Bhairava said:


> No need to drag the Sikhs and Buddhists or even the xtians here. They dont have a chip on their shoulders constantly whining how they are discriminated, how they are victimized, bla bla. You want to make a point on behlaf of the Muslims, go ahead, but no need for the _pakatthu elaikku payasam_ by dragging in the other minorities. Well to say frankly, minorities like SIkhs, Buddhists, Jains etc dont even consider them minority in a social milieu but only strictly number wise.



Yeah yeah and yeah again. 

pakatthu elaikku payasam - lagarr bagarr charkh or whatever


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## Bhairava

ajtr said:


> How many muslims you want to proclaim it.........
> 
> Even i say i'm muslim first ...indian second.
> 
> When it will come to choosing between islam and india....we will choose islam first.
> 
> And it does overwhelmingly proves majority are muslim first then indian.



Goood for you. The actions and the consequent reactions all come out of one's one deeds.


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## KRAIT

@ karan.1970
That's why the forcing out of Kashmiri Pundits failed. There plan was successfully nullified by Indian policy makers and defense establishment to some extent.

BUT we should make decisions for their rehabilitation back in Kashmir. Why should they live as refugees in their own nation. Congress has used Muslim vote bank a lot now we need a leader who can do justice to these Hindus too.

Problem in India is when 10 Muslims suffer in India, Human rights, opportunists parties etc make so much noise but if thousands of Hindus suffer, they say nothing.

Kashmir should be restored to its previous position.

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## karan.1970

KRAIT said:


> @ karan.1970
> That's why the forcing out of Kashmiri Pundits failed. There plan was successfully nullified by Indian policy makers and defense establishment to some extent.
> 
> BUT we should make decisions for their rehabilitation back in Kashmir. Why should they live as refugees in their own nation. Congress has used Muslim vote bank a lot now we need a leader who can do justice to these Hindus too.
> 
> Problem in India is when 10 Muslims suffer in India, Human rights, opportunists parties etc make so much noise but if thousands of Hindus suffer, they say nothing.
> 
> Kashmir should be restored to its previous position.




I wish I could share some of the things that are being planned for Kashmir (economically), but can not violate the confidentiality agreement I have signed with my company .. All I can say, is that successful economic revival of J&K is going to be a major election plank of Congress in 2014...If things go as planned, J&K will give Gujrat a run for its money...


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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> The scare was created by the then Indian Government which initiated and started the exodus of Pandits from Kashmir.



Yeah right, it was the Indian govt that was blaring from the mosque louspeakers _Ae Kafiroo Ae Zalimoo, Kashmir Hamara Chhod Do_ and _Asi gache Pakistan, Batav ros Batnev san_ threatening the Pandits to leave their homeland. It was the Indian govt that raped, killed and ethnically cleansed the Hindu Pandits to establish what the terrorists call Nizam-e-Mustafa. Yeah it was the Indian mainstream newspapers and not the Al-safa and Srinagar Times that carried direct threats to Hindusto get lost of Kashmir or be killed. Yeah it was the Indian govt that was also responsible for also your neighbourhood mulla's langoti being stolen.

Quit talking trash. Those who perpetrated the worst ethnic cleansing in our part of the world after '71 got their just desserts and have had the fear of their God inserted into them subsequently.

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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> Yeah yeah and yeah again.



That's right. Try standing on your leg, argue your own case and not on the crutches of another community.


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## Bhairava

ajtr said:


>



Interesting. Why do you support India..Because we live here. Interesting.


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## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> *I dragged your religion...Wait a minute...let me post your words
> 
> Page 15, Post #218. # 222
> AJTR "
> Even i say i'm muslim first ...indian second."*
> 
> Using large fonts to make you notice it was you, not me, who brought you in discussion.
> 
> You dragged yourself and now blaming me. That you always do.


How about payin attention to your *post#210 page#14*
Let me too increase the font size in case you have missed it.....

*Ask any Muslim in India, is he Muslim first or Indian first. All Indians know the answer.*It was you first making a sweeping statement bringing in muslim first and of course that includes me hence you got your reply for dragging my religion directly.



> First you bring yourself in middle and if someone disagrees with you, you call it targeting and you play victim card. You insult other people like our soldiers then expect Indians to read your statements. And your cheerleader starts defending even if he doesn't know the truth .


First thing i never bring my self i get dragged in when i'm part of the issue say women issue or muslim issue i'll speak for it and its not playing victim card rather retorting to falsehood.

IA will always be criticized for its deeds.dont expect the false parise for it from me.

And no i dont expect indians to read my posts.Indians are not the only people on this board there are many other nationalities.I think indians have some sort of problem that they feel themselves to be self-important here hence the statements like as you said,"i expect indians to read my posts", comes in once in a while.Btw you and other indians are welcome to ignore my post.damn youse the ignore button webmaster has provided you.
You are only ayear old when i came here i was put on ignore list by many indians..you do the same use the button.

*And I dont have any cheerleader here coz i dont pay anyone to cheer lead for me.....*




> Again you bringing Manipur women to defend Your Rioters.?
> 
> *Are you seriously justifying those rioters ?*


only a blind would be unable to see the outrage in both cases.Can be expected from you ...nothing new.



> *Sania doing it for sponsors not for love of this nation. Are you saying she is greedy not patriot by saying the statement. Who are you to judge her real motives *?


And who are you to proclaim that she plays for india hence she is patriot.its all about money honey....



> Can't access the video, and don't tell me what I am worthy of. Don't make *me go personal* then you have already made by bringing yourself as an example of Muslim who consider herself Muslim first.


Yeah ...it only can be expected from guys only that too indian ones.....ie getting personal....or do you expect me to get threatened by your blackmail of getting personal.Damn i'm right here in india near you place do whatever you wish to do.I've seen guys like you through out my life .Tum jaison ko to apne sandal ki nok par rakhati hoon.



> You carry on your  anywhere you want and let the research do the talking.
> 
> You are dodging the factors I raised regarding kashmir.
> 
> Can you debate on Kashmir situation just I approached. Can you debate on demographics, immigration, emigration, effect of terrorism, tourism and other social changes affecting Kashmiris and Kashmir's stability.


i said already i say it again.you are not worth it wrt Islam.

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## Hulk

99% of Pictures posted here are old. It does indicate we had problem in the past. As far as being disturbed and having human right violations are concerned Kashmir will not even figure out at world level. I am serious there is hardly any violence, police encounters, and stone pelting incidences in recent times for over a year. On the contrary tourism is flourishing in Kashmir.

Compare this to Karachi.

Before you jump and post old stuff, I will say post something current.

Additionally we do not care if few thousands wants to separate. They do not have ability to do so is what matters.


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## ajtr

Ticker said:


> Arrey .... I was not talking to you.
> 
> I was talking about you and giving your example and it is my opinion.
> 
> And I am always right - well almost always.
> 
> Tumhein nahin pasand - na sahi.


Why i said is coz people term you my cheerleader.



indianrabbit said:


> 99% of Pictures posted here are old. It does indicate we had problem in the past. As far as being disturbed and having human right violations are concerned Kashmir will not even figure out at world level. I am serious there is hardly any violence, police encounters, and stone pelting incidences in recent times for over a year. On the contrary tourism is flourishing in Kashmir.
> 
> Compare this to Karachi.
> 
> Before you jump and post old stuff, I will say post something current.
> 
> *Additionally we do not care if few thousands wants to separate. They do not have ability to do so is what matters.*


Akela chana bhi bhaad fod deta hai maharaj.................

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## ajtr

Bhairava said:


> Goood for you. The actions and the consequent reactions all come out of one's one deeds.


Ready for reaction too and action too.

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## Bhairava

ajtr said:


> Ready for reaction too and action too.



Do you speak for all, or for yourself ?


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## nForce

Pakistani leaders had different views on Kashmir from time-to-time.Some said,its part of Pakistan,some said it should be a separate state.India firmly stuck to a single opinion.Kashmir is considered to be an integral part by India.
So far as the present scenario is concerned,nothing is going to happen.There used to be far more anti-India sentiments and a much higher level of insurgency back in the 90s.With a lot of socio-economic development happening over there,more and more people are getting absorbed into the mainstream.
So it is status-quo for unified Kashmir.


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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> Yeah right, it was the Indian govt that was blaring from the mosque louspeakers _Ae Kafiroo Ae Zalimoo, Kashmir Hamara Chhod Do_ and _Asi gache Pakistan, Batav ros Batnev san_ threatening the Pandits to leave their homeland. It was the Indian govt that raped, killed and ethnically cleansed the Hindu Pandits to establish what the terrorists call Nizam-e-Mustafa. Yeah it was the Indian mainstream newspapers and not the Al-safa and Srinagar Times that carried direct threats to Hindusto get lost of Kashmir or be killed. Yeah it was the Indian govt that was also responsible for also your neighbourhood mulla's langoti being stolen.
> 
> Quit talking trash. Those who perpetrated the worst ethnic cleansing in our part of the world after '71 got their just desserts and have had the fear of their God inserted into them subsequently.



Kashmir belong to the Kashmiris and not Indians. So yes the Indians should leave. What's wrong with that. 

Why didn't the people from Laddakh leave, why didn't the people from Jammu leave - why was it that only Pandits were encouraged to leave. Even from places where such noises never sounded in the manner. 

The exodus was perpetrated by Indian Government who couldn't control the event and created havoc in the lives of these people by making them refugees in their own country. 

Yeah it is time you people stop talking trash and stop throwing dust in the eyes of your own people.


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## ajtr

Bhairava said:


> Do you speak for all, or for yourself ?


Who do you speak for?


----------



## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> That's right. Try standing on your leg, argue your own case and not on the crutches of another community.



It is you people who have given clutches to own people and your government used them. It is a shame that even after such a long time your people are not told about the truth.


----------



## KRAIT

I said ask any Muslim if *HE*, didn't say *SHE *because I expected it that you will jump in to make it personal. Still you entered your personal choices. I also meant popular notion among Indian Muslims. 

No one is expecting you to praise Indian Army but when you are given infractions for the words you use against our soldiers, don't take favors from people. You know what I mean.

*Muslims were dragged by other posters way before me*, I just responded to those people. Tumhe aadat hai har jagah Taang Ghussane k aur cheejon ko personal banane kii. Ask people around.

Since you are telling me what I am worth it or not let me let you a truth that people know you are *"Drama Queen or  Queen"*

Worth it ki baat to chodo, mujhe nahin convert hona. Worth it or not, who are you to tell. 

Do you want me to tell you that whether you are worth it or not w.r.t. Islam ?

You bring Islam in many topics so as to get popular support of the people, people also know that. 

Now let the talk on Kashmir. You haven't been able to debate on Kashmir situation and its conditions in various field.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Change in JAMMU!!!


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## ajtr

GOI has to answer for those thousands of mass graves and those thousands of missing persons in Kashmir.By rejecting to do DNA matching of the People buried in graves GOI is just trying to push the issue under the carpet.GOI and its hitler style SS troops has to be dragged in international court for the crime against humanity by commiting kashmir genocide.


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## Ticker

indianrabbit said:


> 99% of Pictures posted here are old. It does indicate we had problem in the past. As far as being disturbed and having human right violations are concerned Kashmir will not even figure out at world level. I am serious there is hardly any violence, police encounters, and stone pelting incidences in recent times for over a year. On the contrary tourism is flourishing in Kashmir.
> 
> Compare this to Karachi.
> 
> Before you jump and post old stuff, I will say post something current.
> 
> Additionally we do not care if few thousands wants to separate. They do not have ability to do so is what matters.



Oh and you are not pushed even when a hundred thousand are killed by your good old Indian security forces. Why would you, Musalman hein na saaray - haath laganay se tumhein ganga mein anahana parray ga. 

And you think it is going to be over because money will be spent in Kashmir. Wow, buying the memories of hundred thousands dead ones, are you. Nice - erase these memories from the minds of those mothers and sisters who lost their loved ones in tens of thousands. Erase the memories from the kids who lost their mothers and fathers to brave soldiers of Indian security forces. 

Live in your dreams - but one day when you wake up, the reality will hit you harder than ever before.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Change in Jammu Part 2






This was the reaction of people of Jammu..and you all would know what Leh,Ladakhis think!!

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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> Kashmir belong to the Kashmiris and not Indians. So yes the Indians should leave. What's wrong with that.



The moment the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits from the Valley, the Buddhists from Kargil who are as much Kashmiris as anyone were killed, raped and forced to leave their homeland, that stupid slogan became null and void. The land of Kashmir belongs to the Union of India. It was, it is and it will be. No matter the human cost. Yes, NO MATTER.



Ticker said:


> Why didn't the people from Laddakh leave, why didn't the people from Jammu leave - why was it that only Pandits were encouraged to leave. Even from places where such noises never sounded in the manner.



Because Buddhists are the absolute majority in Ladakh and Jammu is nearly two-thirds Hindu. The only place place where the Islamicans dare do their atrocities was in the gullies and by-lanes of the Valley where they were in majority. And they got handsomely paid for that subsequently.




Ticker said:


> The exodus was perpetrated by Indian Government who couldn't control the event and created havoc in the lives of these people by making them refugees in their own country. .



Repeating the same trash does not make it halal.



ajtr said:


> Who do you speak for?



I asked you. You said "Ready for action and reaction". Answer that. Who is ready for that ?



Ticker said:


> It is you people who have given* clutches to own people and your government used them*. It is a shame that even after such a long time your people are not told about the truth.



That is called democracy and constitution dumbo. The Constitution does not allow the secession of any part of country ~ no matter how special the people are. If a demand for secession is raised, it will be crushed using all possible means and the writ of the state established ~ as the Valley Muslims found the hard way.

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## Bhairava

ajtr said:


> GOI has to answer for those thousands of mass graves and those thousands of missing persons in Kashmir.By rejecting to do DNA matching of the People buried in graves GOI is just trying to push the issue under the carpet.GOI and its hitler style SS troops *has to be dragged in international court for the crime against humanity by commiting kashmir genocide.*


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## Ticker

ajtr said:


> Why i said is coz people term you my cheerleader.



I am not your cheerleader. Bahot purani aatma ho. 

I am the cheerleader of all these Indians in ladies outfits, who form part of this bigoted religious charade and many of such ladies who also tend to opt for a leading role amongst such bigoted ladies having fat encasing the brain's gnomatic chromosomes. 

I instill the kathak dancing habits in them and they dance to my tunes, whenever I move my fingers.


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## Ticker

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Change in Jammu Part 2



Sorry we in Pakistan can't see these clips.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

The fact of the matter is there are 3 regions of the state--Jammu--kashmir and Leh Ladakh..2 out of 3 are pro Indian and decisions are not taken to suit a minority.

Those who get it..Good for you..those who cant theres this line i remember from a song "sari zindagi tumhari yuhi beet jayegi...comment likh-likh kar ungli ghis jayegi"



Ticker said:


> Sorry we in Pakistan can't see these clips.



Mass gathering in Jammu with Indian flags and mostly women.

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## Bhairava

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mass gathering in Jammu with Indian flags and mostly women.



Tell him for what reason too...


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## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> I said ask any Muslim if *HE*, didn't say *SHE *because I expected it that you will jump in to make it personal. Still you entered your personal choices. I also meant popular notion among Indian Muslims.


Wow ...nice escape route...As if "He" is more muslim than "she".sorry i was right in my conviction that you are not wort it. this more or less categorization happens in hinduism not in muslims.



> No one is expecting you to praise Indian Army but when you are given infractions for the words you use against our soldiers, don't take favors from people. You know what I mean.


Forget me how about those mumbai guys...........or how about kashmiris who openly shouts at IA *"indian dogs go back" * or how about manipuri women protesting "indian army rape us" i think thats the lot of respect.....good.



> *Muslims were dragged by other posters way before me*, I just responded to those people. Tumhe aadat hai har jagah Taang Ghussane k aur cheejon ko personal banane kii. Ask people around.


you gonna get response when you put sweeping statements like that from everyone one and when im part of the community i put my individual take.thatts why i said *"im muslim first then indian"* instead of *"we are muslim first then indian"*..i didnt make any sweeping statement unlike you did.When you make statement on someones community then why do you expect that the person wont retort.isse taang ghusana nahi bolte mahshai balki isse opinion bolte hain.



> Since you are telling me what I am worth it or not let me let you a truth that people know you are *"Drama Queen or  Queen"*


i dont care what you think or what others think about me.coz for me such opinions on me simply not worth it for me to pay attention.



> Worth it ki baat to chodo, mujhe nahin convert hona. Worth it or not, who are you to tell.
> 
> Do you want me to tell you that whether you are worth it or not w.r.t. Islam ?


I never claim to be worth it i know what i did and what i'm doing to be of worth.



> You bring Islam in many topics so as to get popular support of the people, people also know that.


no its was never me who did it it was you who invoke islam 1st.It seems you have some kind of phobia from islam and a musali here.



> Now let the talk on Kashmir. You haven't been able to debate on Kashmir situation and its conditions in various field.


wow first divert the topic yourself then expect others not to retort to your nonsense and when you get the retort you blame others of diverting the topic.....*Jai HO Krait Maharaj..................*

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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> The moment the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits from the Valley, the Buddhists from Kargil who are as much Kashmiris as anyone were killed, raped and forced to leave their homeland, that stupid slogan became null and void. The land of Kashmir belongs to the Union of India. It was, it is and it will be. No matter the human cost. Yes, NO MATTER.
> 
> Because Buddhists are the absolute majority in Ladakh and Jammu is nearly two-thirds Hindu. The only place place where the Islamicans dare do their atrocities was in the gullies and by-lanes of the Valley where they were in majority. And they got handsomely paid for that subsequently.
> 
> Repeating the same trash does not make it halal.
> 
> I asked you. You said "Ready for action and reaction". Answer that. Who is ready for that ?
> 
> That is called democracy and constitution dumbo. The Constitution does not allow the secession of any part of country ~ no matter how special the people are. If a demand for secession is raised, it will be crushed using all possible means and the writ of the state established ~ as the Valley Muslims found the hard way.



The Indian constitution and democracy does not have any locus standii in Indian Occupied Kashmir. 

Indian Occupied Kashmir is not part of India because you say so. It is a disputed territory. 

Crush karnay ke liye kitnay maaro gay. Shaam parr jayegi phir bhi puray nahin marein ge.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Bhairava said:


> Tell him for what reason too...



I was part of that gathering man..trust me it was insane.There was soo much support..so many indian flags..Bum Bum bole..bharat mata ki jai bol bol k gala kharab ho gaya...Even muslims,gujjars,bakarbalis were part of it.

I realised that day that no one can take Jammu and Kashmir from India...people are so patriortic...feel sad for a few policemen who got thrashed.

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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> The Indian constitution and democracy does not have any locus standii in Indian Occupied Kashmir.
> 
> Indian Occupied Kashmir is not part of India because you say so. *It is a disputed territory. *



Chal...phir ???


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## ajtr

Bhairava said:


> I asked you. You said "Ready for action and reaction". Answer that. Who is ready for that ?


Answer first whose "reaction"...........you talked about reaction first didnt you....


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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> Tell him for what reason too...



Kiyun tuhari zabaan pe taala lag gya hai.


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## Bhairava

ajtr said:


> Answer first whose "reaction"...........you talked about reaction first didnt you....



The reaction of the state.

Now your turn.


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## Ticker

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was part of that gathering man..trust me it was insane.There was soo much support..so many indian flags..Bum Bum bole..bharat mata ki jai bol bol k gala kharab ho gaya...Even muslims,gujjars,bakarbalis were part of it.
> 
> I realised that day that no one can take Jammu and Kashmir from India...people are so patriortic...feel sad for a few policemen who got thrashed.



I disagree with you. 

A people who have weathered over 100,000 dead, wont let you.



Bhairava said:


> The reaction of the state.
> 
> Now your turn.



Your state reacted by initiating Pandit exodus from Kashmir and killing over a 100,000 of Kashmiris.


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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> Your state reacted by initiating Pandit exodus from Kashmir and killing over a 100,000 of Kashmiris.



Keep repeating the same trash. All the perfumes of Arabia cannot wash the stench of (Pandit) blood from Pakistani and Valley fanatics hands.

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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> Keep repeating the same trash. All the scents of Arabia cannot wash the stain of (Pandit) blood from Pakistani and Valley Muslim hands.



Hey tin horn, I am not from Arabia. 

I am a higher caste Muslim Brahmin. Scion of the Indus Valley Civilization and hold its cradle. 

Who are you. You don't even know that. Pathetic.


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## ajtr

Ticker said:


> Sorry we in Pakistan can't see these clips.


Nothing in video except for hindus doing nara bazi at amarnat shrine "bam bam bhole"...""vande matram" etc. and this ie doing narabaazi at hindu shrine he is calling as change.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ticker said:


> I disagree with you.
> 
> A people who have weathered over 100,000 dead, wont let you.



They dont have a option..Even the valley itself has many Pro Indian supporters who join the Army and Police in large number and outside the valley no one cares about them.

Show me a single video or picture of a Pakistani flag being hosted in Jammu city and i will change my flag to Pakistani flags...I repeat Jammu city not Srinagar.

How can you expect crores of hindus to become Pakistani...forget Indian Army and Govt even if we are left on our own we will fight till the last drop of blood in our veins against Pakistani Army but would never become part of a Islamic republic which kidnaps its hindus and converts them.

And thankfully you got a lot of people to fight with...Sikhs,Hindus,kashmiri Hindus,Ladakhis,gujjars etc.



ajtr said:


> Nothing in video except for hindus doing nara bazi at amarnat shrine "bam bam bhole"...""vande matram" etc. and this ie doing narabaazi at hindu shrine he is calling as change.



Didnt you see Indian flags?

Does a bell ring..try again...

Doesnt it show which side are we on?


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## ajtr

Bhairava said:


> The reaction of the state.
> 
> Now your turn.


action of civil society bringing political change like they did in 2004 by defeating hindutvavadis in 2 consecutive elections.


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## Bang Galore

Ticker said:


> I disagree with you.
> 
> A people who have weathered over 100,000 dead, wont let you.



Your disagreement is irrelevant. India's position is much stronger than you guys can imagine. There is very little interest today in taking the Indian state head on. There will be protests & there will be demonstrations but the Indian state has held on & neutralised such situations in far more adverse conditions, especially in the North East. The nature of the Indian state is such that it will never permit any secession. If it held on to the states of the NE in the 50's when the state was still getting its act together, you can be certain that the status of Kashmir as an Indian state will never be in question. Regardless of the hardships that people there & outside will face, the Indian state is incredibly tough defending its core irrespective of what people may perceive as a general softness of the state.

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## nForce

I think the thread has over-lived its use,with the Pakistanis saying its theirs and he same by the Indians....You all see the big picture ? Its status quo even in this thread.....


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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> Hey tin horn, I am not from Arabia.
> 
> I am a higher caste Muslim Brahmin. Scion of the Indus Valley Civilization and hold its cradle.
> 
> Who are you. You don't even know that. Pathetic.



Helo coconut, Lady Macbeth wasnt from Arabia either.


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## Ticker

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They dont have a option..*Even the valley itself has many Pro Indian supporters who join the Army and Police in large number* and outside the valley no one cares about them.
> 
> Show me a single video or picture of a Pakistani flag being hosted in Jammu city and i will change my flag to Pakistani flags...I repeat Jammu city not Srinagar.
> 
> How can you expect crores of hindus to become Pakistani...forget Indian Army and Govt even if we are left on our own we will fight till the last drop of blood in our veins against Pakistani Army but would never become part of a Islamic republic which kidnaps its hindus and converts them.
> 
> And thankfully you got a lot of people to fight with...Sikhs,Hindus,kashmiri Hindus,Ladakhis,gujjars etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt you see Indian flags?
> 
> Does a bell ring..try again...
> 
> Doesnt it show which side are we on?



So did many in Afghanistan - the result is in front of us. 

You are a die-hard Indian. I respect you for that. 

I carry my own opinion, while I respect yours.



Bhairava said:


> Helo coconut, Lady Macbeth wasnt from Arabia either.



Yeah. Neither from India. 

Isko ghareeb ko beech mein kiyun le aye.


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## ajtr

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They dont have a option..Even the valley itself has many Pro Indian supporters who join the Army and Police in large number and outside the valley no one cares about them.
> 
> Show me a single video or picture of a Pakistani flag being hosted in Jammu city and i will change my flag to Pakistani flags...I repeat Jammu city not Srinagar.
> 
> How can you expect crores of hindus to become Pakistani...forget Indian Army and Govt even if we are left on our own we will fight till the last drop of blood in our veins against Pakistani Army but would never become part of a Islamic republic which kidnaps its hindus and converts them.
> 
> And thankfully you got a lot of people to fight with...Sikhs,Hindus,kashmiri Hindus,Ladakhis,gujjars etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt you see Indian flags?
> 
> Does a bell ring..try again...
> 
> Doesnt it show which side are we on?


Thats the thing flying indian flag on what you call indian land you term it as change......how about pakistani flags get flown in everywhere india many a time what you will call it as...................


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## Bhairava

ajtr said:


> *action of civil society* bringing political change like they did in 2004 by defeating hindutvavadis in 2 consecutive elections.



Civil society ?  . I see that inspite of all the bluster and the facade of courage/rebellion you try to conjure, you also chicken out when you are called. Good bye.


----------



## Ticker

Bang Galore said:


> Your disagreement is irrelevant. India's position is much stronger than you guys can imagine. There is very little interest today in taking the Indian state head on. There will be protests & there will be demonstrations but the Indian state has held on & neutralised such situations in far more adverse conditions, especially in the North East. The nature of the Indian state is such that it will never permit any secession. If it held on to the states of the NE in the 50's when the state was still getting its act together, you can be certain that the status of Kashmir as an Indian state will never be in question. Regardless of the hardships that people there & outside will face, the Indian state is incredibly tough defending its core irrespective of what people may perceive as a general softness of the state.



Let shaping the environment phase end. Your arrogance may leave you for someone else.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

ajtr said:


> Thats the thing flying indian flag on what you call indian land you term it as change......how about pakistani flags get flown in everywhere india many a time what you will call it as...................



Gaddari!!

Indians flying Indian flag is normal..but it was my sarcasm to the thread started.

And mind you we dont need flags flying..Pakistani heart beats for India..thatswhy they are still attached to indian culture and watch our movies,shows etc.

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## ajtr

Ticker said:


> I am not your cheerleader. Bahot purani aatma ho.


no resurrected atma hoon.....



> I am the cheerleader of all these Indians in ladies outfits, who form part of this bigoted religious charade and many of such ladies who also tend to opt for a leading role amongst such bigoted ladies having fat encasing the brain's gnomatic chromosomes.
> 
> I instill the kathak dancing habits in them and they dance to my tunes, whenever I move my fingers.


thank you for blessing indians in ladies clothes with your cheerleading................

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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> Yeah. Neither from India.



I did not claim that.

Ok let me dumb it down for you ~ No matter what trash talk you indulge in, on an online forum, the blood of the Kashmir Pandits will never be washed off from the hands of the fanatics in Kashmir Valley and their supporters in Pakistan ~ the fact that you are a highest caste Muslim Brahmin with three balls not withstanding.

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## KRAIT

Madam ji, you and I both know who selectively pick up words.

Who proposes AK-47 to girls then you blame me for categorization. As for escape route. It was actually the truth to avoid inculcating you in discussion.

If you don't care what people say about you then why should I care what you say about Indian soldiers. I will believe in my soldiers and give back you replies in every possible way.

No one asked you explicitly. you don't represent entire Muslim community of India. So stop being poster person of Indian Muslims if you don't want me to be poster person to say all Muslims thinks that they are Indian first. I don't think I crossed the line. I have seen enough evidence and Muslims about what they believe. So no need to retort. You have your perception, I have mine. If I cross a line, report it. Let the MODs decide. 

I asked to move on to topic because you have nasty habit to put your Tang everywhere to get some attention. Majority of Indian on this forum says that. 

So by your logic of women saying Indian dogs go back, and you taking it as opinion of majority, you should also accept the popular notion that you are Drama Queen as majority of people on this forum say that.

Also. will you allow Kashmiri Pundits to get their places back which they were forced to leave ? You support maoists because they were oppressed by govt. where as don't say anything for Kashmiri Pundits who were oppressed and made to leave Kashmir ? What a hypocrisy

BTW stop telling me whether I am worth it or not w.r.t any religion, and if you can't here is my reply for people like you, Jo ek religion ka sagaa naa hua to dussre ka kya hoga. You neither deserved Hinduism nor Islam. Dragging two great religions and telling me what I don't deserve.

Still you are unable to give proper answer on Kashmir and its economic, social etc. conditions w.r.t data.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ticker said:


> So did many in Afghanistan - the result is in front of us.
> 
> You are a die-hard Indian. I respect you for that.
> 
> I carry my own opinion, while I respect yours.



There is only one problem..There are many like me in the state and hence there is no good news for Pakistan.


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## Bang Galore

Ticker said:


> Let shaping the environment phase end. Your arrogance may leave you for someone else.



Maybe, maybe not. If you are right, you will eventually get your way. There should be no reason for blustering today. I state the position as evident today, all you offer are conjectures mixed with your wish list. there is quite simply never going to be a meeting of our thoughts. Best to move on.

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## ajtr

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Gaddari!!
> 
> *Indians flying Indian flag is normal*..but it was my sarcasm to the thread started.


If its normal then why you proclaimed it change......



> And mind you we dont need flags flying..Pakistani heart beats for India..thatswhy they are still attached to indian culture and watch our movies,shows etc.


or you listen to their singers etc.....

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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> Civil society ?  . I see that inspite of all the bluster and the facade of courage/rebellion you try to conjure, you also chicken out when you are called. Good bye.



You mean you are saying good bye now and chickening out. 

Please go, we do understand.


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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> You mean you are saying good bye now and chickening out.
> 
> Please go, we do understand.



I go when I go Mr.pom pom. You needn't think for me.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

ajtr said:


> If its normal then why you proclaimed it change......



Like i said its sarcasm...and a educational video for those who thought Jammuites are like kashmiris.



> or you listen to their singers etc.....



I dont have much of an idea about the indian ones itself...forget about pakistanis.


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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> I did not claim that.
> 
> Ok let me dumb it down for you ~ No matter what trash talk you indulge in, on an online forum, the blood of the Kashmir Pandits will never be washed off from the hands of the fanatics in Kashmir Valley and their supporters in Pakistan ~ the fact that you are a highest caste Muslim Brahmin with *three balls* not withstanding.



hmmm ..... I wish if aunty had even one ball, she would have been an uncle.


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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> hmmm ..... I wish if aunty had even one ball, she would have been an uncle.



Dont worry. You make an ok aunty and we are happy to accept you, as you are.


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## Ticker

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> There is only one problem..There are many like me in the state and hence there is no good news for Pakistan.



There are many like me in the state also and hence there is no good news for India as well.


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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> Dont worry. You make a fine aunty and we are happy to accept you, as you are.



ajeeb aadmai hai ya aurat ya kuch aur. 

Mein to aunty nahin bhei .... tum ne khud hi kaha tha ke meray teen balls hein. 

Agar aunty mein nahin to tum hi hogi na, Bhairava Aunty.



Bang Galore said:


> Maybe, maybe not. If you are right, you will eventually get your way. There should be no reason for blustering today. I state the position as evident today, all you offer are conjectures mixed with your wish list. there is quite simply never going to be a meeting of our thoughts. Best to move on.



Yes we will eventually have our way - I got no doubt in it. 

I am not blustering - you are. 

I am stating facts and giving you factual information. It is you who are conjecturing.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ticker said:


> There are many like me in the state also and hence there is no good news for India as well.



Its a minority Sir...and the majority is Pro Indian like i said.

Lastly the ones your are talking about are better at throwing stones at 200rs per day.


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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> I go when I go Mr.pom pom. You needn't think for me.



OK Bhairava Aunty - if you say so.


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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> Mein to aunty nahin bhei .... tum ne khud hi kaha tha ke meray teen balls hein.





Ticker said:


> OK Bhairava Aunty - if you say so.




The balls have to be in the right place for not to be an aunty . Balls in place of brains doesnt make you a man. 

Ok aunty ?

Now get back to topic.


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## Ticker

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Its a minority Sir...and the majority is Pro Indian like i said.
> 
> Lastly the ones your are talking about are better at throwing stones at 200rs per day.



The valley is full of of people like me. And please don't forget the Kashmiris living in Azad Kashmir.


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## American Pakistani

anilindia said:


> Freedom March for Independence of JSQM Sindh.
> 
> Pakistan: Request for independence of Sind




Son, I'm from Sind & i can tell you there is no such thing in Sind. Yes there are some Sindhi nationalists but they are well aware that they can never ever get anything as eastern Sind is stronghold of Hurs(the same Sindhi warriors fought indians in the previous Pak-Ind wars) Southern Sind is stronghold of Urdu Speakers & MQM who are Pakistani nationalists & rest of Sind is PPP stronghold. These nationalist who are less than 0.1% of Sind are bunch of jobless mazdoors/labours. Next time find facts before opening your big mouth spreading disgustin smell.


----------



## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> The valley is full of of people like me. And please don't forget the Kashmiris living in Azad Kashmir.



The mixed Punjabi ones ? What about them ?



American Pakistani said:


> Son, I'm from Sind & i can tell you there is no such thing in Sind.



Son, you are a Mohajir and not a Sindhi. Do you want another '92 upon you ?


----------



## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> The balls have to be in the right place for not to be an aunty . Balls in place of brains doesnt make you a man.
> 
> Ok aunty ?
> 
> Now get back to topic.



hmmmm ...... yours are probably stuck in your eyes because you can't see the ground realities.


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## Bang Galore

Ticker said:


> Yes we will eventually have our way - I got no doubt in it.
> 
> I am not blustering - you are.
> 
> I am stating facts and giving you factual information. It is you who are conjecturing.



As i sad earlier, your dreams are quite irrelevant in how reality will pan out. Many able men of Pakistan have had bigger dreams & they lie unfulfilled or buried. Yours is no different. If you are merely stating facts, tell me if you believe that there will be a change in Kashmir's position in 5 years/10 years? If your time scale does not allow you an answer to that, then I'm afraid you are indeed guilty of bluster & conjecture. Staus quo is an easier position to defend, it's you who needs to prove how that can be altered in your favour.


----------



## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> Madam ji, you and I both know who selectively pick up words.


Sorry actually i dont know it .please enlighten me with your gyan.....



> Who proposes AK-47 to girls then you blame me for categorization. As for escape route. It was actually the truth to avoid inculcating you in discussion.


Nope Ak-47 for women is not categorization but the ultimate solution.As for not inculcating me in discussion...indians are free to ignore me.i dont ask them to reply to my post learn something from Joe sir use the ignore button ...your highness



> If you don't care what people say about you then why should I care what you say about Indian soldiers. I will believe in my soldiers and give back you replies in every possible way.


i dindnt even ask to read it .....caring to baat to door hai.why do you you read it and then raise your BP..use the ignore button sire........



> No one asked you explicitly. you don't represent entire Muslim community of India. So stop being poster person of Indian Muslims if you don't want me to be poster person to say all Muslims thinks that they are Indian first. I don't think I crossed the line. I have seen enough evidence and Muslims about what they believe. So no need to retort. You have your perception, I have mine. If I cross a line, report it. Let the MODs decide.


*Practice what you preach*.....first of all all indians stop to be spokesperson of india when something is said here about india.As for reporting i generally dont do it as i dont believe in chugal khori only posts i remember reporting were those related to cursing my baby otherwise not.



> I asked to move on to topic because you have nasty habit to put your Tang everywhere to get some attention. Majority of Indian on this forum says that.


why do you give the attention?or rather is it you enjoy giving attention to me????dont give me attention ......use the ignore button mahashai.............



> So by your logic of women saying Indian dogs go back, and you taking it as opinion of majority, you should also accept the popular notion that you are Drama Queen as majority of people on this forum say that.


when sentiments comes into public it represents majority sentiments.i doesnt dent my resolve whether you indians call watever queen.......it may effect you but not me.



> Also. *will you allow Kashmiri Pundits to get their places back which they were forced to leave ?* You support maoists because they were oppressed by govt. where as don't say anything for Kashmiri Pundits who were oppressed and made to leave Kashmir ? What a hypocrisy


Why not justice has to be done.whether kashmiri pundit or kashmiri muslim or maoist tribal or manipuri women .



> BTW stop telling me whether I am worth it or not w.r.t any religion, and if you can't here is my reply for people like you, Jo ek religion ka sagaa naa hua to dussre ka kya hoga. You neither deserved Hinduism nor Islam.


you are not worth even typing about it so plz stop it.



> Still you are unable to give proper answer on Kashmir and its economic, social etc. conditions.


Paint it red you will have solution not only to kashmir but to whole of india and even subcontinent.

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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> hmmmm ...... yours are probably stuck in your eyes because you can't see the ground realities.



'Ground realities' in an alternate universe where pigs and your wishes fly ? Sorry aunty, I'm indeed guilty of that.

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## nForce

Ticker said:


> The valley is full of of people like me. And please don't forget the Kashmiris living in *Azad Kashmir*.



That is another joke.How come the Pakistan-held Kashmir get to be termed as 'Azad' ? Its under Pakistani control.


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## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> Son, you are a Mohajir and not a Sindhi. Do you want another '92 upon you ?



S0n i live in Sind, Muhajir is my term inside Pakistan but i'm from Sind for outsiders. Bring million 92's our blood is Pakistani it won't spoil on some raciest actions against us by corrupt polititions.

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## ajtr

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Like i said its sarcasm...and a educational video for those who thought Jammuites are like kashmiris.


next time use sarcasm tag ....you know not everyone is as bright as you are.....





> I dont have much of an idea about the indian ones itself...forget about pakistanis.


chalo theek hai lot many pakistany too dont have idea of bollywood...ticker for example. so you both are of same group.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ticker said:


> The valley is full of of people like me. And please don't forget the Kashmiris living in Azad Kashmir.



I have been lucky to visit every district in kashmir.

Many Kashmiris are loyal to india..otherwise you wont have any govt servant/police officer/Army Jawan from kashmir.


Check out this link to know how exactly Kashmiris are...

Paratrooper Shabir Ahmad Malik - Martyred on 21st Birthday


Believe me..I am being very neutral..there are some places in kashmir where people are anti-indian but some places are Pro Indian too.



ajtr said:


> next time use sarcasm tag ....you know not everyone is as bright as you are.....



Ya that i am 





> chalo theek hai lot many pakistany too dont have idea of bollywood...ticker for example. so you both are of same group.



Kya karain madam time nahi milta nah.

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## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> Son, you are a Mohajir and not a Sindhi. Do you want another '92 upon you ?



WHERE ARE MODS, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT INDIAN OCCUPIED KASHMIRIS SO HOW OTHER FAKE IMAGES ARE BEING POSTED? I CAN ALSO POST KHALISTAN, ASSAM, NAGALAND, WEST BANGALADESH, MANIPUR, TAMIL, ARUNACHAL PRADESH & DOZEN OTHER FREEDOM MOVEMENTS OF INDIA.


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## Bhairava

American Pakistani said:


> S0n i live in Sind, Muhajir is my term inside Pakistan but i'm from Sind for outsiders. Bring million 92's our blood is Pakistani it won't spoil on some raciest actions against us by corrupt polititions.



You are still Mohajir to me ~ an outsider.



American Pakistani said:


> WHERE ARE MODS, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT INDIAN OCCUPIED KASHMIRIS SO HOW OTHER FAKE IMAGES ARE BEING POSTED? I CAN ALSO POST KHALISTAN, ASSAM, NAGALAND, WEST BANGALADESH, MANIPUR, *TAMIL*, ARUNACHAL PRADESH & DOZEN OTHER FREEDOM MOVEMENTS OF INDIA.



Son, go ahead. I will give you a reality check.

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## KRAIT

Ok madam ji, welcome to my ignore list. 

BTW you do believe in Chugal Khori and taking favors from certain people. Otherwise what you post, would have banned you. 
So you are corrupt too. 

Look at this thread, you jumped to my posts not other way round. Don't raise your BP too and so much negativity around you.

Take care of your baby. Sleep on right time. remaining away from topics like Maoists which you told me is close to your heart. It will increase your BP. more stress. 

Take care of Zainab. 

Adios.


----------



## ajtr

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ya that i am
> 
> Kya karain madam time nahi milta nah.


See i ve good eye in spotting talents like imran khan.....

Good time ka sadupyog aise hi kiya kijiye....


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

These are Kashmiris too.

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## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> You are still Mohajir to me ~ an outsider.



As if i care what are your thoughts

I'm Pakistani first than Sindhi & for internal politics of Pakistan & Sind i'm Pakistani & than Muhajir.



Bhairava said:


> Son, go ahead. I will give you a reality check.



No S0n, i'm not indian, why would i troll destroy such a nice forum. Everyone can see indians here at PDF does 90% of trolling posting fake & *offtopic* pictures. But i hope Mods will clean this nice thread, make it sticky & hand over "bans"/infractions to violators.

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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> I go when I go Mr.pom pom. You needn't think for me.



Stick around then and enjoy the fun


----------



## American Pakistani

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> These are Kashmiris too.



Don't post bu11 $h1t photoshop pictures even a kid can tell that.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

ajtr said:


> See i ve good eye in spotting talents like imran khan.....
> 
> Good time ka sadupyog aise hi kiya kijiye....



Time ka sadupyog bhi hein aur job ki restrictions bhi hein...


----------



## Bhairava

American Pakistani said:


> As if i care what are your thoughts



Couldn't be a more perfect reply to the Pakistanis ranting about Kashmir here.




American Pakistani said:


> I'm Pakistani first than Sindhi & for internal politics of Pakistan & Sind i'm Pakistani & than Muhajir.



Once a Mohajir, always a Mohajir. It's not I'm saying that ~ I've seen plenty Pakistanis openly saying that here.




American Pakistani said:


> No Son, i'm not indian, why would i troll destroy such a nice forum.



Lol, you think you are taking seriously now ? Or maybe that I dont take some Pakistanis like you seriously..

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## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> Ok madam ji, welcome to my ignore list.
> 
> BTW you do believe in Chugal Khori and taking favors from certain people. Otherwise what you post, would have banned you.
> So you are corrupt too.
> 
> Look at this thread, you jumped to my posts not other way round. Don't raise your BP too and so much negativity around you.
> 
> Take care of your baby. Sleep on right time. remaining away from topics like Maoists which you told me is close to your heart. It will increase your BP. more stress.
> 
> Take care of Zainab.
> 
> Adios.


Main aapki behad sukrguzar hoon jo aapne mujh ko ignore karne ke layaq samjha, warna main is qabil kahan.
yeh aapki zarra-nawazi hai jo kabhi kabhi is tarah ki himmat kar leti hoon...........


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

American Pakistani said:


> Don't post bu11 $h1t photoshop pictures even a kid can tell that.



LOL..Thats the deadbody of Shabbir Ahmad Malik..21 yrs old..died on his birthday..Participated in 26/11 was a SF operative...died rescuing fellow Indian from enemy fire.

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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> The mixed Punjabi ones ? What about them ?



No .... all Kashmiris.


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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> 'Ground realities' in an alternate universe where pigs and your wishes fly ? Sorry aunty, I'm indeed guilty of that.



Bhairava Aunty, itna ghussa kiyun karti hein. 

After all I didn't want to go to Mars.


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## Bang Galore

American Pakistani said:


> Don't post bu11 $h1t photoshop pictures even a kid can tell that.



You think so? Tell your chinese friends that.

here are some more pics along with a link:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-03/25/content_11067161.htm






_People carry the coffin of Shabir Ahmad Malik, a Kashmiri Muslim soldier of the Indian army, in Dab, 35 kilometers north of Srinagar, summer capital of Indian-controlled Kashmir, March 24, 2009. At least 19 people have been killed as the gunfight between Indian troops and militants in frontier district of Kupwara, close to the Line of Control in Indian-controlled Kashmir entered the fifth day. (Xinhua/Javed Dar) _













_Women cry during the funeral of Shabir Ahmad Malik, a Kashmiri Muslim soldier of the Indian army, in Dab, 35 kilometers north of Srinagar, summer capital of Indian-controlled Kashmir, March 24, 2009. At least 19 people have been killed as the gunfight between Indian troops and militants in frontier district of Kupwara, close to the Line of Control in Indian-controlled Kashmir entered the fifth day. (Xinhua/Javed Dar)_







_People offer funeral prayers during the funeral of Shabir Ahmad Malik, a Kashmiri Muslim soldier of the Indian army, in Dab, 35 kilometers north of Srinagar, summer capital of Indian-controlled Kashmir, March 24, 2009. At least 19 people have been killed as the gunfight between Indian troops and militants in frontier district of Kupwara, close to the Line of Control in Indian-controlled Kashmir entered the fifth day. (Xinhua/Javed Dar) _

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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> No .... all Kashmiris.



The only Agmark Kashmiris are the ones from the Valley. The rest are all mixed. Second what those "kashmiris" think is the problem of the Pakistani Govt..Not ours..Their thoughts dont affect our actions except ofcourse when they think they can visit our Kashmir without a visa, in which case the bullets act as the return ticket 

Simple hain na ?


----------



## Ticker

nForce said:


> That is another joke.How come the Pakistan-held Kashmir get to be termed as 'Azad' ? Its under Pakistani control.



Because these lucky ones are not under Indian control and did not have the misfortune of 100,000 innocent men, women and children killed at the hands of Indian security forces.


----------



## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> Once a Mohajir, always a Mohajir. It's not I'm saying that ~ I've seen plenty Pakistanis openly saying that here.
> :



What matters is that do we care? First we are Pakistanis & than Sindhis on the political level we are Muhajirs on second. And stop bringing offtopics here.



Bhairava said:


> Lol, you think you are taking seriously now ? Or maybe that I dont take some Pakistanis like you seriously..



Nor do i, most indians here are troll & unwanted bojh on this forum TBH


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Bang Galore said:


> You think so? Tell your chinese friends that.
> 
> here are some along with a link:
> 
> Funeral of Kashmiri gunfight victim arouses public soreness _English_Xinhua
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _People carry the coffin of Shabir Ahmad Malik, a Kashmiri Muslim soldier of the Indian army, in Dab, 35 kilometers north of Srinagar, summer capital of Indian-controlled Kashmir, March 24, 2009. At least 19 people have been killed as the gunfight between Indian troops and militants in frontier district of Kupwara, close to the Line of Control in Indian-controlled Kashmir entered the fifth day. (Xinhua/Javed Dar) _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Women cry during the funeral of Shabir Ahmad Malik, a Kashmiri Muslim soldier of the Indian army, in Dab, 35 kilometers north of Srinagar, summer capital of Indian-controlled Kashmir, March 24, 2009. At least 19 people have been killed as the gunfight between Indian troops and militants in frontier district of Kupwara, close to the Line of Control in Indian-controlled Kashmir entered the fifth day. (Xinhua/Javed Dar)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _People offer funeral prayers during the funeral of Shabir Ahmad Malik, a Kashmiri Muslim soldier of the Indian army, in Dab, 35 kilometers north of Srinagar, summer capital of Indian-controlled Kashmir, March 24, 2009. At least 19 people have been killed as the gunfight between Indian troops and militants in frontier district of Kupwara, close to the Line of Control in Indian-controlled Kashmir entered the fifth day. (Xinhua/Javed Dar) _



Bang Galore

Mate,you are better than me with the Photoshop stuff. 

(Sarcasm)

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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> The only Agmark Kashmiris are the ones from the Valley. The rest are all mixed. Second what those "kashmiris" think is the problem of the Pakistani Govt..Not ours..Their thoughts dont affect our actions except ofcourse when they think they can visit our Kashmir without a visa, in which case the bullets act as the return ticket
> 
> Simple hain na ?



Do you guys ever feel sorry for killing over 100,000 Kashmiris.


----------



## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> After all I didn't want to go to Mars.



Well I dont blame you. Must be SUPARCO was interested in a Muslim brahmin aunty to test their new space vehicle.......More such aunties are needed for Sir Al-Khalifa Zion Hamid Al Vanaspati's mission to moon.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ticker said:


> Do you guys ever feel sorry for killing over 100,000 Kashmiris.



Firstly,confirm the number with a link.Then i would like to reply to that.


----------



## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> Do you guys ever feel sorry for killing over 100,000 Kashmiris.



Why should we feel sorry when they were not killed..or killed by us ?


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## Ticker

Bang Galore said:


> You think so? Tell your chinese friends that.
> 
> here are some more pics along with a link:



Sir, 

He is a soldier who died for his country. That's an honurable thing to do. 

Please do not undermine his sacrifice by using his funeral pictures in this manner. 

Damn shame on you.



Bhairava said:


> Well I dont blame you. Must be SUPARCO was interested in a Muslim brahmin aunty to test their new space vehicle.......More such aunties are needed for Sir Al-Khalifa Zion Hamid Al Vanaspati's mission to moon.



ha ha ha ......

Yaar ye mujhay nahin mil raha .... this Zaid Hamid fellow. 

Is ne zaroor koi acchhay kaam kiyein hein. 

I don't know who he is, but he does fluster every Indian here on this forum.

ha ha ha


----------



## Ticker

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Firstly,confirm the number with a link.Then i would like to reply to that.



There are links available. 

But what the heck. They are dead.


----------



## Bang Galore

Funny how when Pakistanis give out a figure for the deaths in Kashmir (100000 is not considered accurate), they don't realise that the figure represents all deaths by violence in Kashmir which includes, for a major part, those killed by the terrorists/militants. Pakistan is as much answerable for the deaths as India is.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ticker said:


> Sir,
> 
> He is a soldier who died for his country. That's an honurable thing to do.
> 
> Please do not undermine his sacrifice by using his funeral pictures in this manner.
> 
> Damn shame on you.



Sirji,he died for his cause.

His cause being protecting India from its enemies.If today he was alive he would have said that he is proud of being an Indian..Then how do you call it misusing the pictures?

We are not using Sher Khan's picture i guess.


----------



## Hulk

@ KARIT stop wasting time with Ajtr. After few post you should know you are wasting time.


----------



## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> I don't know who he is, but he does fluster every Indian here on this forum.



Well he is just one more Pakistani who lives to make Indians laugh.


----------



## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> Why should we feel sorry when they were not killed..or killed by us ?



wow ..........

That is why there are over 140 armed secessionist groups in India. The highest number in any one country in the world. 

That is why, there are many a set of people who do not want to stay in India. 

Is it that only Hindu Indians should live in India and anybody else is a cannon fodder.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ticker said:


> There are links available.
> 
> But what the heck. They are dead.



Provide a link Sir..When you claim something you better prove it.


----------



## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> Well he is just one more Pakistani who lives to make Indians laugh.



That doesn't seem to be the case.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Provide a link Sir..When you claim something you better prove it.



I am the link. 

The choice to believe it or not is yours.


----------



## Bang Galore

Ticker said:


> Sir,
> 
> He is a soldier who died for his country. That's an honurable thing to do.
> 
> Please do not undermine his sacrifice by using his funeral pictures in this manner.
> 
> Damn shame on you.



Your countrymen opened that line up with his bluster. There is something to be said for the old adage for lawyers in court _to never ask a question to which you do not already know the answer_. Your countryman made that mistake & it did need answering to. We are not talking about the soldier in question as much as to demonstrate that your( & some countrymen & women of yours) narrative is not necessarily the only one available.


----------



## American Pakistani

I don't understand why in the name of freedom of speech indians are given soo much freedom that they claim Kashmir as theirs? I request the Mods to make more rules for Kashmir related topics, According to UN Kashmir is disputed territory & according to Pakistan Kashmir is legally province of Pakistan & as this forum is Pakistani Forum, respected Mods/Administration should treat it according to these logics. Pakistan has already lost Junagadh/Manvadar, HyderabadDeccan, Western UP & Bengal because of it's soft stance, Pakistanis should learn & not be so stupidly soft on Kashmir issue, it is bu11$h1t how these corrupt polititions are talking of putting Kashmir in back burner for a decade withou any preparations while indians are fully prpared & in these 10 years they will make their claim on indian Occupied Kashmir very strong by media & cyber campaigns.


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## Ticker

indianrabbit said:


> @ KARIT stop wasting time with Ajtr. After few post you should know you are wasting time.



kiyun, tum bhi ek Hindutvadi hai, jisko ek Hindu larrki ke Musalman honay par religiously motivated rage hota hai.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ticker said:


> I am the link.
> 
> The choice to believe it or not is yours.



What do i say then.....

Debate ends here!

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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> wow ..........
> 
> That is why there are over 140 armed secessionist groups in India. The highest number in any one country in the world.



hahaha...135 of those secessionist movements would not even have 135 members in them...



American Pakistani said:


> According to UN Kashmir is disputed territory & according to Pakistan Kashmir is legally province of Pakistan



Amreekan Pakistani bhai, you also forgot to add. " and according to India Kashmir is legally Province of India"....Sab kush ho raha hoon.


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## Ticker

Bang Galore said:


> Your countrymen opened that line up with his bluster. There is something to be said for the old adage for lawyers in court _to never ask a question to which you do not already know the answer_. Your countryman made that mistake & it did need answering to. We are not talking about the soldier in question as much as to demonstrate that your( & some countrymen & women of yours) narrative is not necessarily the only one available.



If any of my country man displays such pictures for petty gains, I will tell him the same thing. 

Damn shame.


----------



## Hulk

Bang Galore said:


> Funny how when Pakistanis give out a figure for the deaths in Kashmir (100000 is not considered accurate), they don't realise that the figure represents all deaths by violence in Kashmir which includes, for a major part, those killed by the terrorists/militants. Pakistan is as much answerable for the deaths as India is.


You cannot have sensible debate when people post data from Pakistan only sources. The data in their history books are exaggerated to incite hatred. These people don't even care to check neutral sources.

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## Paan Singh

American Pakistani said:


> I don't understand why in the name of freedom of speech indians are given soo much freedom that they claim Kashmir as theirs? I request the Mods to make more rules for Kashmir related topics,* According to UN Kashmir is disputed territory & according to Pakistan Kashmir is legally province of Pakistan *& as this forum is Pakistani Forum, respected Mods/Administration should treat it according to these logics. Pakistan has already lost Junagadh/Manvadar, HyderabadDeccan, Western UP & Bengal because of it's soft stance, Pakistanis should learn & not be so stupidly soft on Kashmir issue, it is bu11$h1t how these corrupt polititions are talking of putting Kashmir in back burner for a decade withou any preparations while indians are fully prpared & in these 10 years they will make their claim on indian Occupied Kashmir very strong by media & cyber campaigns.



You contradict yourself....  ..who told u that you are owner of p0k ?? ...


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## American Pakistani

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> You contradict yourself....  ..who told u that you are owner of p0k ?? ...



UN consider it disputed territory by rejecting indian claim on Kashmir as india was first to take the matter to UN, where as Kashmir is legally province of Pakistan. Refrendum under UN supervision should be held in Kashmir.



TeriShirtDaButton said:


> You contradict yourself....  ..who told u that you are owner of p0k ?? ...




Kashmiris are owner of Kashmir & it is their land if they want to merge with Pakistan it is their right.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Pakistanis talk about having a poll to know whose side Kashmiris are on and they expect to win because the ISI mastermind Hamid Gul executed a superb plan of removing every Hindu from the valley.

I really doubt Pakistanis winning such poles if Pandits and Sikhs are allowed to vote.

As far as Jammu and Leh,Ladakh are conserned...forget it!!


----------



## Hulk

Ticker said:


> kiyun, tum bhi ek Hindutvadi hai, jisko ek Hindu larrki ke Musalman honay par religiously motivated rage hota hai.



No I just do not debate with people who debate for the sake of it and have no interest to understand the point of view of others.

Pakistanis view everything from prism of religion, not us.


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## KRAIT

Yaar tumne mujaheedon ka use kiya to kuch nahin, tum kah rahe ho media aur cyber campaigning karenge hum. Kya galat hai......


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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> hahaha...135 of those secessionist movements would not even have 135 members in them...
> 
> Amreekan Pakistani bhai, you also forgot to add. " and according to India Kashmir is legally Province of India"....Sab kush ho raha hoon.



I remember one such group which had a openly publicized passing out parade of the officer cadre for an independent army of theirs, well publicized in the Indian press, merely 40 km from the HQ of Rangapahar 3 Corps. If I am not wrong, the number passed out was around the same number you are quoting. 

Jis UN ne Kashmir ko disputed kaha tha, wahan India hi le kar gya tha - ham nahin. Bhugto abhi, Nehru ko gaaliyan to detay hi rehtay ho. Why blame us.


----------



## Bang Galore

Ticker said:


> If any of my country man displays such pictures for petty gains, I will tell him the same thing.
> 
> Damn shame.



This entire thread is about some unnamed video of some chaps singing some anthem. The pictures represent a young Kashmiri man & members of his village sacrificing far more than vocal chords. Valid post. Move on.


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## Paan Singh

American Pakistani said:


> UN consider it disputed territory by rejecting indian claim on Kashmir as india was first to take the matter to UN, where as Kashmir is legally province of Pakistan. Refrendum under UN supervision should be held in Kashmir.
> 
> Kashmiris are owner of Kashmir & it is their land if they want to merge with Pakistan it is their right.



 

Referendum will be held in whole kashmir which u even occupied even and which u gave to china and forces will have to go 

and none of the country is ready to vacate so forget abt U.N etc and type of resolutions which UN have on kashmir are not liable which means that there is no time frame to solve that issue.You can cry for even 1000000 years.

and who told u they want to merge with pakistan? leave ladakh n jammu,only problem exist in kashmir portion and every kashimri is not anti indian or pro paksitani..few wants paksitan to leave their kashmir


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## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> Amreekan Pakistani bhai, you also forgot to add. " and according to India Kashmir is legally Province of India"....Sab kush ho raha hoon.



india was the first to take Kashmir issue to UN cuz Pakistani forces were taking control of Kashmir at a very fast pace.

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## Ticker

indianrabbit said:


> You cannot have sensible debate when people post data from Pakistan only sources. The data in their history books are exaggerated to incite hatred. These people don't even care to check neutral sources.



Jaisay tumhaari history books ganga mein dho kar publish ki jaati hein. 

Your history books teach religious bigotry and you still think that what was taught is correct.

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## American Pakistani

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> Referendum will be held in whole kashmir which u even occupied even and which u gave to china and forces will have to go.
> 
> and none of the country is ready to vacate so forget abt U.N etc and type of resolutions which UN have on kashmir are not liable which means that there is no time frame to solve that issue.You can cry for even 1000000 years.
> 
> and who told u they want to merge with pakistan? leave ladakh n jammu,only problem exist in kashmir portion and every kashimri is not anti indian or pro paksitani..few wants paksitan to leave their kashmir



The only need of refrendum is in Maqbooza Kashmir(AKA indian Occupied Kashmir)

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## Ticker

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> Referendum will be held in whole kashmir which u even occupied even and which u gave to china and forces will have to go
> 
> and none of the country is ready to vacate so forget abt U.N etc and type of resolutions which UN have on kashmir are not liable which means that there is no time frame to solve that issue.You can cry for even 1000000 years.
> 
> and who told u they want to merge with pakistan? leave ladakh n jammu,only problem exist in kashmir portion and every kashimri is not anti indian or pro paksitani..few wants paksitan to leave their kashmir



Plebiscite will be held for the whole of Kashmir and the whole of it will become a part of Pakistan.


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## nForce

Ticker said:


> That doesn't seem to be the case.
> 
> 
> 
> I am the link.
> 
> The choice to believe it or not is yours.




You have a strong power of imagination it seems,upto the degree where it becomes difficult to differentiate between reality and delusion.Just channelize that capacity of yours in right direction,one more step, and start believing that you already have Kashmir.You will not require reality after that.


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## nForce

Ticker said:


> Plebiscite will be held for the whole of Kashmir and the whole of it will become a part of Pakistan.




and when is that happening?in some imaginery parallel universe where you have created a Utopian state of your own with your power of imagination ?
People keep referring to that UN referendum time and again in this thread.Do you know that one of the clauses of that referendum asks Pakistan to vacate the part of Kashmir that it holds first ? When is that happening ?


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## Ticker

nForce said:


> You have a strong power of imagination it seems,upto the degree where it becomes difficult to differentiate between reality and delusion.Just channelize that capacity of yours in right direction,one more step, and start believing that you already have Kashmir.You will not require reality after that.



No no ..... I can't beat the Indians in make believing habits and actually believing in them. This is your forte yaar. I am just a guy who remain in the present.



nForce said:


> *and when is that happening*?in some imaginery parallel universe where you have created a Utopian state of your own with your power of imagination ?
> People keep referring to that UN referendum time and again in this thread.Do you know that one of the clauses of that referendum asks Pakistan to vacate the part of Kashmir that it holds first ? When is that happening ?



When the time is ripe.


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## Ticker

Mirza Jatt said:


> you are the ones who get attracted to a *vvhore* when she shows you her nakhras and then you cry foul when she rips you off of all your money. sorry krait...but I just hope you get my drift...not trying to insult you.



Would you like to elaborate what this word is and the context that you have used it in. 

Aren't you ashamed of using such a word Sir. And I thought you were a gentleman.


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## Mirza Jatt

Ticker said:


> Would you like to elaborate what this word is and the context that you have used it in.
> 
> Aren't you ashamed of using such a word Sir. And I thought you were a gentleman.



Sorry sir. I too feel you are a gentleman and thus I would not like to ruin your clean mood by explainin the dirty context of it...for your relief I can tell you that its not used for any Pakistani member..its just an example to my fellow Indian member to try to tell him what wrong he has been doing.....and oh yes..I am not ashamed of it..in fact I have been here for more than majority of the mebers on this forum and I know whats the level of the members here and I have been into debates/arguments with almost all of them and I know who is who of this forum. Please dont be stressed. TC.

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## American Pakistani

TeriShirtDaButton said:


>



Doesn't matter every i***** looks same.


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## nForce

Ticker said:


> No no ..... I can't beat the Indians in make believing habits and actually believing in them. This is your forte yaar. I am just a guy who remain in the present.
> 
> 
> 
> When the time is ripe.




Nationalistic jingoism aside,if you remain in present then you would have probably realized that the status quo condition serves best for both the countries.Quite a few Pakistani leaders,both military and civilian have tried to take Kashmir,mostly by force,all failed miserably followed by the fall of Pakistani govt.On the other hand,no Indian ruling political party would like to commit the political suicide of the century by serving the Indian-held Kashmir on plates to Pakistan.
But,as is the case,every Pakistani PM/Military dictator will take their dogmatic stand on Kashmir,because the other way will be considered unpatriotic.

So,you keep waiting for the ideal time,keep waiting for somebody to do something that makes you happy,best of luck to you with that.


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## Ticker

Mirza Jatt said:


> Sorry sir. I too feel you are a gentleman and thus I would not like to ruin your clean mood by explainin the dirty context of it...for your relief I can tell you that its not used for any Pakistani member..its just an example to my fellow Indian member to try to tell him what wrong he has been doing.....and oh yes..I am not ashamed of it..in fact I have been here for more than majority of the mebers on this forum and I know whats the level of the members here and I have been into debates/arguments with almost all of them and I know who is who of this forum. Please dont be stressed. TC.



Please, we can all use direct or indirect nuances to demean others contemptuously in such low down manner. 

The contextual rebuke is well understood. And it is certainly not pleasant. Avoid it, if I may. 

Thank you.


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## jayron

anilindia said:


> Freedom March for Independence of JSQM Sindh.
> 
> Pakistan: Request for independence of Sind



Looks like the whole city has thronged for Sindhi Intefada. Jai Sindhu desh!


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## KRAIT

Mirza Jatt said:


> you are the ones who get attracted to a ***** when she shows you her nakhras and then you cry foul when she rips you off of all your money. sorry krait...but I just hope you get my drift...not trying to insult you.


Sorry buddy, no matter how much I hate her views, I won't use these words you just used. 

She can say whatever she wants, I will argue with her at lengths, she might get upper hand, but at the end of the day, as I log out, I forget everything. She is just one person in 1.2 billion people.

I got your drift that I should rather ignore her, for which I have added her to my ignore list. You should edit your post if you want. 

Cheers.

P.S. I edited from my behalf.


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## jayron

American Pakistani said:


> Son, I'm from Sind & i can tell you there is no such thing in Sind. Yes there are some Sindhi nationalists but they are well aware that they can never ever get anything as eastern Sind is stronghold of Hurs(the same Sindhi warriors fought indians in the previous Pak-Ind wars) Southern Sind is stronghold of Urdu Speakers & MQM who are Pakistani nationalists & rest of Sind is PPP stronghold. These nationalist who are less than 0.1% of Sind are bunch of jobless mazdoors/labours. Next time find facts before opening your big mouth spreading disgustin smell.



same is the case with Kashmir. Except, in Kashmir the crowds wont be this big.


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## Mirza Jatt

Ticker said:


> Please, we can all use direct or indirect nuances to demean others contemptuously in such low down manner.
> 
> The contextual rebuke is well understood. And it is certainly not pleasant. Avoid it, if I may.
> 
> Thank you.



i appreaciate your effort to keep things decent ... but I see something from my position which you cant see.never. Thus I know why my statement is not regrettable...and i dont feel bad about it...and I really dont want to discuss this anymore...thus I hope you wont quote me.
Thanks and regards.


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## Ticker

nForce said:


> Nationalistic jingoism aside,if you remain in present then *you would have probably realized that the status quo condition serves best for both the countries*.Quite a few Pakistani leaders,both military and civilian have tried to take Kashmir,mostly by force,all failed miserably followed by the fall of Pakistani govt.On the other hand,no Indian ruling political party would like to commit the political suicide of the century by serving the Indian-held Kashmir on plates to Pakistan.
> But,as is the case,every Pakistani PM/Military dictator will take their dogmatic stand on Kashmir,because the other way will be considered unpatriotic.
> 
> So,you keep waiting for the ideal time,keep waiting for somebody to do something that makes you happy,best of luck to you with that.



Are you saying that India is a status quo power. That is what most countries in South Asia are concerned about - the Indian hegemonic attitude and hiding it by saying that India is status quo power. 

India is not a status-quo power. It is a regional hegemon. It invaded and captured Junagarh and Manavadar in 1947, invaded and captured Indian Occupied Kashmir in 1947, invaded and captured Hyderabad in 1948, invaded and captured Goa in 1961 which was an area belonging to Portugal, invaded East Pakistan in 1971, captured certain locations in Chorbatla in Kashmir in 1972, invaded and captured Sikkim as late as 1975, invaded and captured some portions of Siachen in 1984, captured certain locations in Qamar Sector in Kashmir in 1988, created Sri Lankan terrorist group LTTE and later invaded Sri Lanka in 1988 till the President of Sri Lanka had to openly ask the Indians to leave, invaded Maldives in 1988 and has continually interfered in internal affairs of Nepal and Bhutan and has spread state sponsored terrorism in all her neighbouring states including Pakistan.


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## Bhairava

jayron said:


> Looks like the whole city has thronged for Sindhi Intefada. Jai Sindhu desh!



Have you noticed the nomenclature ~ Sindhu *Desh* ~ not some Sindhu stan or Sind Abad. Its a good sign that many Sindhis are well aware of their Indic roots and not got carried away by the pervading wannabe-ness. Intersting, aint it ?


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## Mirza Jatt

KRAIT said:


> Sorry buddy, no matter how much I hate her views, I won't use these words you just used.
> 
> She can say whatever she wants, I will argue with her at lengths, she might get upper hand, but at the end of the day, as I log out, I forget everything. She is just one person in 1.2 billion people.
> 
> I got your drift that I should rather ignore her, for which I have added her to my ignore list. You should edit your post if you want.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> P.S. I edited from my behalf.



lol..who says you to remember everything when you log out. No I am not editing my post..and I feel you all are putting words in my mouth by saying I said something bad to someone. I gava an example...  and i am not here to earn any fake appreciation of anyone. I say what i feel like..like it or not. ok..now forget what i said.


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## Bhairava

American Pakistani said:


> india was the first to take Kashmir issue to UN cuz Pakistani forces were taking control of Kashmir at a very fast pace.



Hahaha we fooled you...


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## jayron

Bhairava said:


> Have you noticed the nomenclature ~ Sindhu *Desh* ~ and some Sindhu stan or Sind Abad. Its a good sign that many Sindhis are well aware of their Indic roots and not got carried away by the pervading wannabe-ness. Intersting, aint it ?



Sindu *desh* and Jinnah *Pur*. Sindhis seem to be the least fanatic people in Pakistan. I guess we should help them in their endeavors.


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## Bhairava

jayron said:


> Sindu *desh* and Jinnah *Pur*. Sindhis seem to be the least fanatic people in Pakistan. I guess we should help them in their endeavors.



Ofcourse moral and diplomatic support onleeeeee

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## Ticker

Mirza Jatt said:


> i appreaciate your effort to keep things decent ... but I see something from my position which you cant see.never. Thus I know why my statement is not regrettable...and i dont feel bad about it...and I really dont want to discuss this anymore...thus I hope you wont quote me.
> Thanks and regards.



You are not worth a reply.


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## Yeti

Kashmiris are sick to death with these wahabi rats coming across the border even our Kashmiri women are killing them!


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## American Pakistani

jayron said:


> same is the case with Kashmir. Except, in Kashmir the crowds wont be this big.



Yup i know in Kashmir crowdwould be massive. One cannot compare Sind, Gujarat, Balochistan or Maharatra situation with Kashmir or Khalistan.


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## Bhairava

LeT module involved in burning of shrine busted , 6 held

Shame shame Pakistan

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## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> Have you noticed the nomenclature ~ Sindhu *Desh* ~ not some Sindhu stan or Sind Abad. Its a good sign that many Sindhis are well aware of their Indic roots and not got carried away by the pervading wannabe-ness. Intersting, aint it ?



Oh how shweet & cute. a person whose own country runs on a fake name given by Sind talks of names & roots Joke of century kid.

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## Bhairava

American Pakistani said:


> Oh how shweet & cute. a person whose own country runs on a fake name given by Sind talks of names & roots. Joke of century kid.



There is only one India...my India, my Bharatya Gan Rajya....






And you are neither a Sindhi nor an Indian to worry about that. It is between us two people. You are an outsider in Sind and in India.


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## American Pakistani

jayron said:


> Sindu *desh* and Jinnah *Pur*. Sindhis seem to be the least fanatic people in Pakistan. I guess we should help them in their endeavors.



Do you even know how much hatred against india is present in Sindhis? many waderas & tribes of Sind still have not forget their lands in Junagadh & Manvadar which was supposed to be part of Sind Pakistan & than on Sir Creek issue. Do you even know about Hurs & their army who fought india in previous wars. hahahahahaha


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## KRAIT

American Pakistani said:


> Oh how shweet & cute. a person whose own country runs on a fake name given by Sind talks of names & roots Joke of century kid.


Its a very old name. Centuries old name and it has become part of history and common nomenclature as most of it called India or Indian sub-continent. Its not a name created some 65 years ago. 

Also according to our scriptures, Hindusthan, or Hindustan, means the land which starts from Himalayas and ends at ocean is Hindusthan. And these scriptures are thousands years old. 1000 BC I guess.

So lets just drop the name game and back on topic.


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## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> There is only one India...my India, my Bharatya Gan Rajya....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you are neither a Sindhi nor an Indian to worry about that. It is between us two people. You are an outsider in Sind and in India.



Baap re Baap itna ghussa janab ka. Don't forget your roots Sind gave you culture, name, identity etc. Sind gave you the name hind, india, hindu etc. Otherwise you would be using that old stoneage name Bharat

Don't worry about me i'm Pakistani Sindhi, Sind ayeen Pakistan jo ristyo cha La Ila Ha Illal Lah, jirhay hiyo asan jo dhartiun ayeen manrun Pakistan saan kaan poye jan diye chudyo. OKAY. Keep burning.


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## Ticker

Bhairava said:


> There is only one India...my India, my Bharatya Gan Rajya....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you are neither a Sindhi nor an Indian to worry about that. It is between us two people. You are an outsider in Sind and in India.



Oye aa te ik nawan naam aa. Bharatya Gan Rajya - pehlay kadi nayin suniya. 

You guys belong to new India, which gained independence from British India. 

The old India had a long history - the new India is just 65 years old and can not claim to be old India as the present India is just a part of old India as it used to be. 

Pakistan was divided in to West and east Pakistan. East Pakistan became Bangladesh and therefore, West Pakistan became Pakistan.


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## Bhairava

American Pakistani said:


> Baap re Baap itna ghussa janab ka. Don't forget your roots Sind gave you culture, name, identity etc. Sind gave you the name hind, india, hindu etc. Otherwise you would be using that old stoneage name Bharat



Would you pass that fine Afghan charas that you seem to be smoking on a fine Saturday morning ? Hey we still use the name Bharat. Bharat Ganrajya. I'm feeling goosebumps when I'm typing that name.




American Pakistani said:


> Don't worry about me i'm Pakistani Sindhi, Sind ayeen Pakistan jo ristyo cha La Ila Ha Illal Lah, jirhay hiyo asan jo dhartiun ayeen manrun Pakistan saan kaan poye jan diye chudyo. OKAY. Keep burning.



allllo bullo idhar udahr sam sam...end of the day you are a Mohajir. Na ghar ka, na ghat ka.


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## American Pakistani

KRAIT said:


> Its a very old name. Centuries old name and it has become part of history and common nomenclature as most of it called India or Indian sub-continent. Its not a name created some 65 years ago.
> 
> Also according to our scriptures, Hindusthan, or Hindustan, means the land which starts from Himalayas and ends at ocean is Hindusthan. And these scriptures are thousands years old. 1000 BC I guess.
> 
> So lets just drop the name game and back on topic.



Hind was the name given by Persions & it is not soo long ago as you are suggesting & they name it on Sind & Sind river, later Britishers/ Europeans fow the suit & name it india deriving it from same Sind , Sindhu, etc. Back in Pakistan i had one Hindu friend who had told me that according to Hindu religion & Holy Booksthere is only one name of india & that is Bharat or Bharatya. Also, it is Hindu(People of Sindhu) Stan a Persian/Urdu suffix for Land. In Hindu scriptures it is not Stan, it is Asthan. So you cannot tell me anything as i understand everything more better than you.

And yes drop all offtopics(i don't know where are Mods i rep several offtopi posts but still no delete) & concentrate on topic.


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## Bhairava

Ticker said:


> The old India had a long history - the new India is just 65 years old and can not claim to be old India as the present India is just a part of old India as it used to be.



We dont just claim ~ we are the official inheritors of that legacy. Just like the PRC is the official inheritor of the Qing legacy or Russia the inheritor of the USSR legacy. Actually the British ruled us for like a blink of an eye in our long history.

Bharatya Ganrajya is the official Devanagri name as mentioned in the Constitution.



American Pakistani said:


> Hind was the name given by Persions & it is not soo long ago as you are suggesting & they name it on Sind & Sind river, later Britishers/ Europeans fow the suit & name it india deriving it from same Sind , Sindhu, etc. Back in Pakistan i had one Hindu friend who had told me that according to Hindu religion & Holy Booksthere is only one name of india & that is Bharat or Bharatya. Also, it is Hindu(People of Sindhu) Stan a Persian/Urdu suffix for Land. In Hindu scriptures it is not Stan, it is Asthan. So you cannot tell me anything as i understand everything more better than you.



Arey amreeki mohajir bhai, Indus flows through India first before entering Pakistan... What geography books you study yaar ?

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## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> Would you pass that fine Afghan charas that you seem to be smoking on a fine Saturday morning ? Hey we still use the name Bharat. Bharat Ganrajya. I'm feeling goosebumps when I'm typing that name.
> .



No indian agree with you, actually they feel shame using old stoneage name Bharat & loves the name Sind gave them. Check anywhere indians use india or hindustan & stoneaged name is now a dark history. feel goosebumps or angerjumps who cares.




Bhairava said:


> allllo bullo idhar udahr sam sam...end of the day you are a Mohajir. Na ghar ka, na ghat ka.



Atleast respect our Sindhi language man, it is Sind who gave you name, culture, identity, etc


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## Bhairava

American Pakistani said:


> No indian agree with you, actually they feel shame using old stoneage name Bharat & loves the name Sind gave them. Check anywhere indians use india or hindustan & stoneaged name is now a dark history. feel goosebumps or angerjumps who cares



Honestly no Bharatiya I've encountered would prefer to use the word Hindustan ~ its almost always Pakistanis and Bangladeshis that use that. Our constitution proudly declared that we are Bharatiya Ganrajya the land of Emperor Bharat also referred popularly as India.





American Pakistani said:


> Atleast respect our Sindhi language man, it is Sind who gave you name, culture, identity, etc



"Our" Sindhi language ?..Yours is Urdu..not Sindhi. Be proud of your Urdu legacy man...

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## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> Arey amreeki mohajir bhai, Indus flows through India first before entering Pakistan... What geography books you study yaar ?



Aray wannabe Sindhi sahab jab hum Kashmir ko india ka hissa mantay hi nahi tou ye river india mein chala kesay gaya?

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## Gandhi G in da house

What is the big deal about this video ? Yes, Kashmiris from the tiny Kashmir valley hate India and to annoy India they do such things from time to time . They have been doing this since years . Where is the change ?

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## American Pakistani

Bhairava said:


> Honestly no Bharatiya I've encountered would prefer to use the word Hindustan ~ its almost always Pakistanis and Bangladeshis that use that. Our constitution proudly declared that we are Bharatiya Ganrajya the land of Emperor Bharat also referred popularly as India.
> :



OMG how delusional you are kid. I can swear you that indians here use only india or hindustan. Many Bollywood people use hindustan. I've yet to see anyone proudly or no proudly mentioning Bharat. No on cares what your constitution says it is what majority of populaion says. People of your country feel ultra pride in mentioning india & hindustan & feel shame for sorry stoneageword Bharat, trust me i'm right.



Bhairava said:


> "Our" Sindhi language ?..Yours is Urdu..not Sindhi. Be proud of your Urdu legacy man...



I'm proud of Urdu, Sindhi, & other languages of Pakistan. unlike ur country people who are shameful to use Bhrat publicily.



nick_indian said:


> What is the big deal about this video ? Yes, Kashmiris from the tiny Kashmir valley hate India and to annoy India they do such things from time to time . They have been doing this since years . Where is the change ?



If there is no big deal than why indian trolls burning on this thread?


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## Yeti

@American Pakistani, Bharat is used widely in India just google the word and see how many links it will bring up.


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## American Pakistani

Yeti said:


> @American Pakistani, Bharat is used widely in India just google the word and see how many links it will bring up.



It maybe used but very lower scale & hidden. Not commonly used.


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## ajtr

Ticker said:


> Oye aa te ik nawan naam aa. Bharatya Gan Rajya - pehlay kadi nayin suniya.
> 
> You guys belong to new India, which gained independence from British India.
> 
> The old India had a long history - the new India is just 65 years old and can not claim to be old India as the present India is just a part of old India as it used to be.
> 
> Pakistan was divided in to West and east Pakistan. East Pakistan became Bangladesh and therefore, West Pakistan became Pakistan.


Even west of Radcliffe line its india......


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## Yeti

American Pakistani said:


> It maybe used but very lower scale & hidden. Not commonly used.



buddy it is widely used trust me otherwise why we have names like Bharat Petroleum, Bharat matrimony, Bharat-rakshak. etc


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## Gandhi G in da house

karan.1970 said:


> I wish I could share some of the things that are being planned for Kashmir (economically), but can not violate the confidentiality agreement I have signed with my company .. All I can say, is that successful economic revival of J&K is going to be a major election plank of Congress in 2014...If things go as planned, J&K will give Gujrat a run for its money...



To be honest bro , the Sunnis of the Kashmir valley who happen to be in the majority don't seem to care a damn about economy or anything like that . They just want to live under Sharia law in a muslim majority state . This is their only aim .They like the leeches that they are will take all the money they get from the Indian government , use it for development and then ask Indians to go home and raise anti-India slogans . Kinda of reminds me of the Pakistan and America relation . They are better off living with Pakistan only , they have a lot in common .I hope they all migrate to Pakistan en masse . The shias and others should stay back .


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## American Pakistani

Yeti said:


> buddy it is widely used trust me otherwise why we have names like Bharat Petroleum, Bharat matrimony, Bharat-rakshak. etc



It is not used commonly. You guys make sure foreigner call u indians or hindustanis not bharati.

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## Yeti

American Pakistani said:


> It is not used commonly. You guys make sure foreigner call u indians or hindustanis not bharati.




I doubt most people in the west even know what Bharat means but with 'India' they are even naming their babies with that name, but if you go to India and ask anyone what is Bharat or who is Bhartiya they can tell you for sure as even our 2nd biggest party in India uses that name which is the BJP (bharatiya janata party)

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## ajtr

Wow so much of love from mirza jatt sahib.I sure have ability to rip the false mask of decency of indian men here......

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## Ticker

ajtr said:


> Even west of Radcliffe line its india......



Yes, the actual seat of India. 

And we are the scions and hold its cradle. 

We now call it Pakistan, because we can. 

Let Indians remain happy with their gan man jan


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## nForce

Ticker said:


> Are you saying that India is a status quo power. That is what most countries in South Asia are concerned about - the Indian hegemonic attitude and hiding it by saying that India is status quo power.
> 
> India is not a status-quo power. It is a regional hegemon. It invaded and captured Junagarh and Manavadar in 1947, invaded and captured Indian Occupied Kashmir in 1947, invaded and captured Hyderabad in 1948, invaded and captured Goa in 1961 which was an area belonging to Portugal, invaded East Pakistan in 1971, captured certain locations in Chorbatla in Kashmir in 1972, invaded and captured Sikkim as late as 1975, invaded and captured some portions of Siachen in 1984, captured certain locations in Qamar Sector in Kashmir in 1988, created Sri Lankan terrorist group LTTE and later invaded Sri Lanka in 1988 till the President of Sri Lanka had to openly ask the Indians to leave, invaded Maldives in 1988 and has continually interfered in internal affairs of Nepal and Bhutan and has spread state sponsored terrorism in all her neighbouring states including Pakistan.




Situation in Kashmir is status quo.And what exactly do you mean by 'status quo power' ? What is that supposed to mean ? 

Looking at the topic,not interested in what you have to say about Indian external affairs policy.India is a much bigger country than yours,and its policies are not necessrily designed keeping your wishlist in mind.So whatever India has to do with any other country,its purely none of your business.
You concentrate on what you are,we will take care of our matters the way it suits us the best.Always trying to be someone else,sometimes Arab,sometimes Yankee,sometimes Afghan,sometimes Kashmiri etc etc. and not a Pakistani,has ruined what you originally had to begin with.


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## Ticker

nForce said:


> Situation in Kashmir is status quo.And what exactly do you mean by 'status quo power' ? What is that supposed to mean ?
> 
> Looking at the topic,not interested in what you have to say about Indian external affairs policy.India is a much bigger country than yours,and its policies are not necessrily designed keeping your wishlist in mind.So whatever *India has to do with any other country,its purely none of your business.*
> You concentrate on what you are,we will take care of our matters the way it suits us the best.Always trying to be someone else,sometimes Arab,sometimes Yankee,sometimes Afghan,sometimes Kashmiri etc etc. and not a Pakistani,has ruined what you originally had to begin with.



Whatever India does outside India or inside India, we have our concerns and Pakistan watches these developments carefully and keep an eye on the happenings. India is not big enough for Pakistan. 

Whatever happens in the region is our business.



jayron said:


> We don't care if they like us or not. We will help them achieve their freedom from fanatic punjabis.
> 
> Sindudesh will be the next Bangladesh



Ghutnon mein paani hai to koshish kar lo.


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## KRAIT

not needed anymore....


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## Paan Singh

KRAIT said:


> Way to go, insulting our nation while expecting world to respect you and your nation and not call what Pakistan has become synonym in West especially in the country you reside now.



I hope smileys in his post add some logic :/


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## nForce

Ticker said:


> Whatever India does outside India or inside India, we have our concerns and Pakistan watches these developments carefully and keep an eye on the happenings. India is not big enough for Pakistan.
> 
> Whatever happens in the region is our business.
> 
> 
> 
> Ghutnon mein paani hai to koshish kar lo.



Not big enough..okay,let me break it down for you in simpler statistical terms so that it becomes easier for you to comprehend.

India has two yearly budgets,one the Railway budget another the Union budget encompassing everything else other than the railways.
Now the military budget of India stands at 2.5% of national GDP,about US$ 46.8 billion.
Now compare that with that of Pakistan.The ENTIRE federal budget of Pakistan has an outlay of about US$ 39.9 billion,which is less than India's military budget alone.And this budget of US$ 39.9 billion has a deficit of about US$ 13 billion,which is compensated by taking loans from WB and alms from US.

This will give you and idea of what is big and what is small.Well it cant be bigger than a Pakistani loud-mouth.

Anyways, my best wishes to you for your self-appointed role of playing the guardian-angel of virtually anybody and everybody,except ownself.


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## blackops

Pakistanisage said:


> Trust me Friend, Kashmir will be soon India's " Toota huwa Ung " after it breaks away from India.



Lol i can only laugh just make sure we dont reach to balochistan vaise bhi half of your countrs has already been torn by us just pray that what ever is left of it stays with you


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## Ticker

nForce said:


> Not big enough..okay,let me break it down for you in simpler statistical terms so that it becomes easier for you to comprehend.
> 
> India has two yearly budgets,one the Railway budget another the Union budget encompassing everything else other than the railways.
> Now the military budget of India stands at 2.5% of national GDP,about US$ 46.8 billion.
> Now compare that with that of Pakistan.The ENTIRE federal budget of Pakistan has an outlay of about US$ 39.9 billion,which is less than India's military budget alone.And this budget of US$ 39.9 billion has a deficit of about US$ 13 billion,which is compensated by taking loans from WB and alms from US.
> 
> This will give you and idea of what is big and what is small.Well it cant be bigger than a Pakistani loud-mouth.
> 
> Anyways, my best wishes to you for your self-appointed role of playing the guardian-angel of virtually anybody and everybody,except ownself.



The concerns of an independent and sovereign state can not be compared with a pansari ki dukan type of thinking.


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## karan.1970

Ticker said:


> The concerns of an independent and sovereign state can not be compared with a pansari ki dukan type of thinking.



Man, what a pansari ki dukan.. Talk about size

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## American Pakistani

KRAIT said:


> Way to go, insulting our nation while expecting world to respect you and your nation and not call what Pakistan has become synonym in West especially in the country you reside now.



I apologise to you & indians like you, it is not for your types it is for haters of Pakistan & trolls. I again apologise to serious members like you from depth of my heart.


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## nForce

Ticker said:


> The concerns of an independent and sovereign state can not be compared with a pansari ki dukan type of thinking.



After piggybacking the US for about 50 years,many people in Pakistan,the leadership included,has started thinking like them,and they try to play the big-brother even though dont have the means for it.
You people need good accountants and a leader who can underline the priorities,Kashmir or paying monthly salary to govt. staff.


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## Ticker

karan.1970 said:


> Man, what a pansari ki dukan.. Talk about size



Like I said before, India is not big enough a country that can threaten Pakistan in the manner. 

Please go and threaten Bhutan, Nepal, Maldives, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka etc. 

You are in their league. 

But we can not remain oblivious to what is happening inside and outside India. And therefore Pakistan does keep the situation under a keen eye.

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## American Pakistani

KRAIT said:


> Way to go, insulting our nation while expecting world to respect you and your nation and not call what Pakistan has become synonym in West especially in the country you reside now.



Ok i edit it for indians like you, i hope Mods will take care of indan trolls who had forced me to reach that level.

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## ajtr

Ticker said:


> Like I said before, India is not big enough a country that can threaten Pakistan in the manner.
> 
> Please go and threaten Bhutan, Nepal, Maldives, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka etc.
> 
> You are in their league.
> 
> But we can not remain oblivious to what is happening inside and outside India. And therefore Pakistan does keep the situation under a keen eye.


India dont say that it threaten pakistan instead pakistan always proclaim that it feel threatened by india's larger size hence it need thi and that.


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## Ticker

ajtr said:


> India dont say that it threaten pakistan instead pakistan always proclaim that it feel threatened by india's larger size hence it need thi and that.



Wo purani baatein thin. The environment have changed.


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## KRAIT

I am deleting my quote too. It happens buddy, it happened to me even today. It happens many time, I welcome your reply. 

Loosing patience due to trolls happens often especially India-Pakistan situation. 

Cheers.


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## ajtr

Ticker said:


> Wo purani baatein thin. The environment have changed.


Purani nahi baat hi hai abhi kuch month pahale ki hi.


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## Ticker

ajtr said:


> Purani nahi baat hi hai abhi kuch month pahale ki hi.



Purani Baat hi Hai

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