# Pakistani Pilots Trained To Fly Qatari Rafales



## Windjammer

*The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*

*First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
by Jon Lake
- February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM




VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.







Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)


The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.

*Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.

Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar

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## metalfalcon

Once a Great PAKISTANI GENERAL SAID *"YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO SURPRISE US BUT WE WILL SURPRISE YOU, WAIT FOR OUR SURPRISE" *

Very Well Said SIRR, We have Surprised India even before they got their hand on Rafales we know everything about Rafales

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## war&peace

yani ke

BTW, I would have preferred this news to stay hidden.. 
I remember once one submarine's all docs were also leaked

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## Mujahid Memon

When will Pakistan end mental surgical strikes on India??

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## ACE OF THE AIR

Mujahid Memon said:


> When will Pakistan end mental surgical strikes on India??


Never

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## Murgah

Qatrio ki napak sazish pakistan ko sikha rhe he Rafael urana

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## Windjammer

@Oscar @Hodor @Bilal Khan 777 @Irfan Baloch @HRK @Areesh @Taimoor Khan

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## newb3e

free keh rafael uura keh rafael riraye gay ab hum! sahi randi roota hai hindu-satan

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## Srinivas

Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization. 

Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.

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## newb3e

Murgah said:


> Qatrio ki napak sazish pakistan ko sikha rhe he Rafael urana


its sajischhh not sazish

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## Riz

metalfalcon said:


> Once a Great PAKISTANI GENERAL SAID *"YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO SURPRISE US BUT WE WILL SURPRISE YOU, WAIT FOR OUR SURPRISE" *
> 
> Very Well Said SIRR, We have Surprised India even before they got their hand on Rafales we know everything about Rafales


Seat for yourself reply is coming...

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## Aasimkhan

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


Oh thats how u shot it on radar screen only ?

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## hussain0216

Its one of the reasons why PAF and Pakistani pilots are so accomplished

We have extensive training and preparations


PAF has experience and pedigree we have taken on everyone from the Soviets to the Israelis to the indians and tested planes like eurofighters and tornados in our allies airforces

*Its why when PAF and Chinese airforce discussions come up people forget its PAF that has the experience and pedigree and understanding of whats our requirements are not the other way round*

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## Maxpane

good news

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## TheTallGuy

Indian Customize version of Rafale? well basics like Radar & Spectra ECM/ESM remains the same. you are is what you trained for...so french have trained the same way as Indian Pilots too. so tactics/employment and maintenance would be same.
*
"Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing."
*
other then Sniper XR Qatari & Indian Rafale are same even the HMS!

I think such big investment has gone down the drain PAF is or was involved from 2017 so now we could understand delay and specs modifications on JF17 Thunder Block 3 and new AAM.

IAF is in Trouble!!!

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## Windjammer

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


Hope you know he difference in training with and being trained on.
If IAF had so much access or knowledge on F-16s, why is it complaining to US.

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## __Jihadi__

Capabilities of our Air force personnel are something extraordinary and the credit goes to the ISSB and PAF training programs, that is also an answer regarding why we have such a higher rejection rate and thanks to Abhinandan and Modi the whole world saw it in a broad daylight.
this training and experience will also help our developing fighter industry.

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## Super Falcon

Gripen is far better cheap to maintain have more weapons variation to carry less time turn around etter range with Awacs dont know why rafale bought more

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## maximuswarrior

LOL at Indians. There goes the Rafale plan into the waste bin.

Shouldn't Indians be complaining to France? Come on I wanna see Indians beg for mercy.

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## Srinivas

Windjammer said:


> Hope you know he difference in training with and being trained on.
> If IAF had so much access or knowledge on F-16s, why is it complaining to US.



Not complaining more like notifying. Why Pakistan has to worry about space debris when it has only one satellite?


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## Aasimkhan

TheTallGuy said:


> Indian Customize version of Rafale? well basics like Radar & Spectra ECM/ESM remains the same. you are is what you trained for...so french have trained the same way as Indian Pilots too. so tactics/employment and maintenance would be same.
> *
> "Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing."
> *
> other then Sniper XR Qatari & Indian Rafale are same even the HMS!
> 
> I think such big investment has gone down the drain PAF is or was involved from 2017 so now we could understand delay and specs modifications on JF17 Thunder Block 3 and new AAM.
> 
> IAF is in Trouble!!!


when was IAF not in trouble?

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## Nefarious

lol trolled

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## maximuswarrior

Srinivas said:


> Not complaining more like notifying. Why Pakistan has to worry about space debris when it has only one satellite?



What you gonna do now? We are flying Rafale fighters.

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## Aasimkhan

Srinivas said:


> Not complaining more like notifying. Why Pakistan has to worry about space debris when it has only one satellite?


first find the debris of F16 which you shot (in your dreams) on ground before you go to space debris.

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## maximuswarrior

Murgah said:


> Qatrio ki napak sazish pakistan ko sikha rhe he Rafael urana



Napak sajish... LOL

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## Sine Nomine

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


Yes they have Indian Built AESA radar,ESM suit and weapon package.
Having hands on stick is one thing and being trained on it is another thing.
Pakistan has access to Migs and Su's also.

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## Aasimkhan

Super Falcon said:


> Gripen is far better cheap to maintain have more weapons variation to carry less time turn around etter range with Awacs dont know why rafale bought more


Rafale bought becoz Modi ji and Relaince are partners in commission mafia.

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## Windjammer

Srinivas said:


> Not complaining more like notifying. Why Pakistan has to worry about space debris when it has only one satellite?


What is there to notify, does India thinks US sold AMRAAMS to Pakistan to be used against the Taliban Air Force.

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## TheTallGuy

Windjammer said:


> What is there to notify, does India thinks US sold AMRAAMS to Pakistan to be used against the Taliban Air Force.


I think They believed in Kill Switches

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## hunter_hunted

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.



Does indian specification means you get two extra vedic wings or 5 landing gears or vedic engine having vedic a-fart-er burner and vedic internet invented 5000years ago.

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## Windjammer

TheTallGuy said:


> I think They believed in Kill Switches


Well they must have malfunctioned on the 27 February....

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## Adam_Khan

Windjammer said:


> *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*
> 
> *First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
> by Jon Lake
> - February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> 
> 
> The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.
> 
> *Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.
> 
> Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar


You are making tall claims without any proof here buddy.


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## Srinivas

hunter_hunted said:


> Does indian specification means you get two extra vedic wings or 5 landing gears or vedic engine having vedic a-fart-er burner and vedic internet invented 5000years ago.



Yes exactly, but 6 landing gears instead of 5 because the jet will have extra wings.

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## Aasimkhan

Eternally Aflame said:


> You are making tall claims without any proof here buddy.


yes i want to know how authentic is this info ? How can pilots from another country do the training in a 3rd country ? this all looks doubtful


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## Windjammer

Eternally Aflame said:


> You are making tall claims without any proof here buddy.


And what proof would satisfy you as i have posted the link to the news.

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## Aasimkhan

zulu said:


> bera garq ab india ny Rafale sy bhi F -16 ki tarah bhaag janaa hai ky PAF knows it so well


Now BS (Bull Sh*t) Dhanoa will say we need F22 for countering PAF

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## Windjammer

Aasimkhan said:


> yes i want to know how authentic is this info ? How can pilots from another country do the training in a 3rd country ? this all looks doubtful


The news was reported by the Arab media as far back as in 2016.

*قطر ترسل طيارين باكستانيين لباريس للتدريب على طائرات "رافال"*
الأحد، 27 نوفمبر 2016 01:30 م



مقاتلات رافال الفرنسية






وكالات الأنباء


إضافة تعليق


كشفت تقارير إعلامية، عن إرسال حكومة قطر طيارين باكستانيين للتدريب على طائرات رافال الفرنسية، كان قد تم التعاقد مع باريس على شرائها مؤخراً.



وقالت التقارير، إن الحكومة القطرية كانت قد تعاقدت مع فرنسا على شراء 24 طائرة مقاتلة من طراز رافال، بقيمة 6.3 مليار يورو، فى مايو الماضى، وطالبت بعد ذلك برفع الصفقة إلى 36 طائرة، بقيمة 9.45 مليار يورو.



وكشفت التقارير، أن الحكومة القطرية لم ترسل طيارين قطريين للتدريب على طائرات الرافال، وإنما أوفدت طيارين باكستانيين إلى العاصمة الفرنسية باريس.

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## metalfalcon

Riz said:


> Seat for yourself reply is coming...



Always READY this will not be my first time to face such replies


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## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.



Pakistan Air Force Jockey having more experience onto different platforms as compare to other forces in this region. Thanks to our friendly & brotherly countries with whom we have strong military exchange programs/ties. Getting trained with & trained on, eventually helps the one to understand the opponent inside out. Having knowledge (flying) as how a platform will behave in combat; is indeed helpful.

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## metalfalcon

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.



PAF participated with China, Singapore, Algeria, Malaysia and many other countries who have Russian Jets SU-30 in Particular and India learned about F-16 by participating with countries who have F-16 of course but who learned more ?? Results were pretty clear on 27th Feb 2019, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN

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## Imran Khan

Gai bhens paani main hhahahaha

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## TheTallGuy

Please note its not only the pilots...it includes Aeronautical engineers/electronics engineers from PAF and airmen which are called ground crews...

so rafale is preety much compromised...for sure the 1st 36 that are to be delivered if they get delivered if ... nothings happens past april this year...

if anything happens in april - rafale will not come to IAF will be sitting in France.

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## fitpOsitive

Windjammer said:


> *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*
> 
> *First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
> by Jon Lake
> - February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> 
> 
> The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.
> 
> *Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.
> 
> Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar


Gari chala, maza aaya, ab hamain pta hai keh, yeh gari kia kersakti hai, or kia nahi.


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## Mig hunter

Srinivas said:


> Not complaining more like notifying. Why Pakistan has to worry about space debris when it has only one satellite?


lolz.... OMG notifying to masters is something new which only Indians can do...by the way that is called Randi rona

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## Counter-Errorist

Windjammer said:


> What is there to notify, does India thinks US sold AMRAAMS to Pakistan to be used against the Taliban Air Force.


Technically speaking, it was used against the TTP airforce

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## airmarshal

I want to see this plane in Pakistani colors. Its sexy. Its capable and in hands of PAF, will do wonders.

I read somewhere but cant confirm that Pakistan pilots were involved in training on Saudi Typhoons too.

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## WarKa DaNG

Ab Qatar tarsega laal tamatar ke liye

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## war&peace

Murgah said:


> Qatrio ki napak sazish pakistan ko sikha rhe he Rafael urana


Since 2017. So by now, they are expert pilots...
In fact, PAF pilots have flown Russian MiGs and even shot down enemy aircrafts in their first time.



airmarshal said:


> I want to see this plane in Pakistani colors. Its sexy. Its capable and in hands of PAF, will do wonders.
> 
> I read somewhere but cant confirm that Pakistan pilots were involved in training on Saudi Typhoons too.


Most of them

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## monitor

Windjammer said:


> *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*
> 
> *First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
> by Jon Lake
> - February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> 
> 
> The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.
> 
> *Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.
> 
> Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar



Pakistan now knows detail performance about rafale before their Indian ccounterart. This experience might help Pakistan develop tactics how to counter rafale in Indian hand .

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## Max

Pilot to aa gaye, bas ab Qatari pay kar den 2 squadron k liye

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## PakSword

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.



That's the difference between Pakistani and Indian pilots.. you couldn't do anything to F-16, and we killed your Su30..

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## Defense Reader

Windjammer said:


> *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*
> 
> *First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
> by Jon Lake
> - February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> 
> 
> The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.
> 
> *Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.
> 
> Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar


Yeh tu iaf ka blatkar hoyi gova

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## LeGenD

Modi ko tag karo...

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## waqasmwi

war&peace said:


> yani ke
> 
> BTW, I would have preferred this news to stay hidden..
> I remember once one submarine's all docs were also leaked


Any news about Pakistan getting hands on those leaked scorpene documents???

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## war&peace

waqasmwi said:


> Any news about Pakistan getting hands on those leaked scorpene documents???


Sorry, I'm not supposed to tell you that

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## Foxtrot Delta

Aw man this kind of info is better kept hidden we all knew of this. We should keep india in dark, surprises are good for battlefields

I hope we keep our mouths shut about co-operstions going on with USA, CHINA, TURKEY, SAUDI ARABIA, EGYPT AND RUSSIA. We have so much to loose if we make stuff public. But indians do have rough idea that we know almost everything there is to know abiut their capabilities and how to counter them. Plus a few things i cant say for the sake of national secrecy.

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## waqasmwi

war&peace said:


> Sorry, I'm not supposed to tell you that


O teri ki........

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## Crystal-Clear

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


yet world is laughing at you claims .

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## Shane

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.


Keep crying dear, get used to it, plenty more to come.

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## koolzberg

Lol, the Pakistanis here think that Qatar will allow Pakistanis to fly their Rafales against India in a skirmish.


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## Rafi

koolzberg said:


> Lol, the Pakistanis here think that Qatar will allow Pakistanis to fly their Rafales against India in a skirmish.


Don't worry we will remember to wear protection, when we penetrate miss India next.

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## Av8er

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's
> 
> Didn’t learn anything despite that, did you? Lol





koolzberg said:


> Lol, the Pakistanis here think that Qatar will allow Pakistanis to fly their Rafales against India in a skirmish.



No one thinks that but we do know the strengths and weaknesses of that platform, which may not bode well for the IAF.

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## crankthatskunk

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.



That's great. Some of your colleagues also wrote that the Israelis were with you in recent "6 Surgical Strikes" in one day by PAF in IoK, and that they understand radar signatures of FA 16. That confirms that you have pilots and military planners of Israel with thorough knowledge of FA 16. 

Why then for months IAF is crying that Pakistan used F 16 against them!!
Shouldn't you be just running away with the technology of F 16 having access to such experts and expert's knowledge!!

Damn Stupid Indians.

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## Umar Nazir

koolzberg said:


> Lol, the Pakistanis here think that Qatar will allow Pakistanis to fly their Rafales against India in a skirmish.


F16 is enough to smash refale

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## CrazyZ

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. -Sun Tzu

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## Defense Reader

Rafi said:


> Don't worry we will remember to wear protection, when we penetrate miss India next.


Sir they will be more surprise when they (indian) learn that hunting of Japanese crashed f35 plane haunted/found by Chinese from sea or elsewhere

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## war&peace

Shane said:


> View attachment 552444


Customisation does not change the A/C altogether...only a few subsystems can be different but the flying characteristics remain the same.



Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


Customisation does not change the overall flying characteristics. Only a few subsystems can be different.

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## Shane

war&peace said:


> Customisation does not change the A/C altogether...only a few subsystems can be different but the flying characteristics remain the same.
> 
> 
> Customisation does not change the overall flying characteristics. Only a few subsystems can be different.


Exactly, that's why I posted a cry baby for the imbecile.

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## war&peace

Shane said:


> Yes, that exactly the reason why I posted a cry baby for the imbecile.


I think, we are merciless.. we should have let them be happy..in fact..I'm against breaking this news.. honestly..

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## ziaulislam

Lets not our read intl tvis...yes we know about Rafael's but that doesnt make the plan less deadly



koolzberg said:


> Lol, the Pakistanis here think that Qatar will allow Pakistanis to fly their Rafales against India in a skirmish.


Some indians thunk the worls is flat and vice versa..you dont see us generalizing this
Non of serious Pakistani will ever think anyone including china will come for our help the VERY REASON WHY WE DEVELOPED NUKES

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## Shane

koolzberg said:


> Lol, the Pakistanis here think that Qatar will allow Pakistanis to fly their Rafales against India in a skirmish.


We don't need to dear, the know-how helps immensely e.g. regularly flying Chinese Flankers and exercise together (i.e. If your Air Force's leadership's head is not stuck up inside political influence of Gao Rakshak extremists, then it becomes another story, lol, and all the practice stands defecated)

If a relic of an F4 can score kills then knowing the opponents, practicing for it and using the right mix of technology and tactics can neutralize the opponent. That's the key...









war&peace said:


> I think, we are merciless.. we should have let them be happy..in fact..I'm against breaking this news.. honestly..


So am I, a bit too late already but knowing the crying DEHATI AURAT next door, now India will try and pressurize dassalt against Pakistani involvement.

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## R Wing

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.



Great point. 

Except that you can only "down" them in imaginary scenarios that have started to defy any form of sanity. What the IAF considers "irrefutable proof" is literally unbelievable. Is this because of govt/domestic pressure or are they actually incompetent?

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## Haroon Baloch

I bet they will approach France again with some bullish reason to stop this happening lol. Its amazing how Pakistan is keep giving heart breaking news to India everyday since 26th Feb. Now what they're gonna claim? if we had an UFO than Pakistan wouldn't dare to cross the boarder?

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## GumNaam

I'm tellin' ya guys, we already know the rafales in and out. you can stay tuned for modi to whine key "agar aaj darth vader ka tie fighter hota to hindustan itna jaleel na hota"!

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## FenrirX

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.



You think knowing about F-16 and Rafale is the same thing? well think again and a lot xD


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## ProudPak

koolzberg said:


> Lol, the Pakistanis here think that Qatar will allow Pakistanis to fly their Rafales against India in a skirmish.


Oh dear...
Spot the little indian mind.
Let me spell it out for u

Pakistanis will know first hand limitations of this amazing aircraft.

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## My-Analogous

Windjammer said:


> *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*
> 
> *First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
> by Jon Lake
> - February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> 
> 
> The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.
> 
> *Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.
> 
> Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar



We should fly these plane to India and personally handed over to Modi.

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## Secret Service

Is India really successful in isolating Pakistan from other Muslim countries ?

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## My-Analogous

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


You can change configuration of the plane but you can't change the limitation of the plane and plus and minus will always remain same. Heat signature, plane deductiblity, aircraft maneuvers and aircraft limitation can't be change. Regarding customize specification. Now a days every body can get those information from many source so what is the advantages does India have? Plus 36 planes don't make any real impact on Pakistan.
@Windjammer @Khafee

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## SQ8

So far Pakistani pilots have flown and familiarized themselves with most of India’s too fighters included a brief stint in the MKM(although that spectre has already been blown out of the sky.. literally).

It seems Pakistani familiarity with Indian aircraft is showing more than the F-16 obsession by India.
Once the JF-17 comes up, India will have to wait for Burma or Nigeria to give them an idea of what it can do.

So far there is no interest in PAF testing the Tejas, until they manage to build and fly more than 20 operational ones.



My-Analogous said:


> You can change configuration of the plane but you can't change the limitation of the plane and plus and minus will always remain same. Heat signature, plane deductiblity, aircraft maneuvers and aircraft limitation can't be change. Regarding customize specification. Now a days every body can get those information from many source so what is the advantages does India have? Plus 36 planes don't make any real impact on Pakistan.
> @Windjammer @Khafee


Configuration to what extent? 
BS from Indians. The radar is the same, the EW practically the same, the interface will be the same and so on.

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## My-Analogous

Oscar said:


> So far Pakistani pilots have flown and familiarized themselves with most of India’s too fighters included a brief stint in the MKM(although that spectre has already been blown out of the sky.. literally).
> 
> It seems Pakistani familiarity with Indian aircraft is showing more than the F-16 obsession by India.
> Once the JF-17 comes up, India will have to wait for Burma or Nigeria to give them an idea of what it can do.
> 
> So far there is no interest in PAF testing the Tejas, until they manage to build and fly more than 20 operational ones.
> 
> 
> Configuration to what extent?
> BS from Indians. The radar is the same, the EW practically the same, the interface will be the same and so on.


I was talking about if they change everything then

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## SQ8

My-Analogous said:


> I was talking about if they change everything then


They cannot. 
What will they change in the Radar so much that it stops resembling the base model?
What will they change in the flight characteristics, weapons load, weapons systems and so on?

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## Khafee

My-Analogous said:


> I was talking about if they change everything then


You mean if they go for F4 specs? No they are stuck with F3 for now, identical to Egyptians & Qataris, don't worry.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...ers-upgraded-rafale-warplanes-for-23-billion/

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## My-Analogous

Khafee said:


> You mean if they go for F4 specs? No they are stuck with F3 for now, identical to Egyptians & Qataris, don't worry.
> 
> https://www.defensenews.com/global/...ers-upgraded-rafale-warplanes-for-23-billion/


Thank you for confirming that

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## zavis2003

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.



With Indian customization Rafales will turn into lethal Migs Three Two One and Down :p

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## Counter-Errorist

Oscar said:


> So far there is no interest in PAF testing the Tejas, until they manage to build and fly more than 20 operational ones.



Pakistanis test Tejas all the time, it's like driving a Mehran.

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## kris

Not entirely unexpected...
This would have happened today or tomorrow
Pakistani will definitely train against rafales of Qatar


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## Safriz

Windjammer said:


> *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*
> 
> *First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
> by Jon Lake
> - February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> 
> 
> The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.
> 
> *Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.
> 
> Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar


Jammi i did not get it?

Did the French actually train Pakistani citizens who were Exchange pilots in Qatari Air Force?

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## koolzberg

Rafi said:


> Don't worry we will remember to wear protection, when we penetrate miss India next.



Protection is alright, but don't you have your own to penetrate. Udhar bhi import.


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## Black_Wind

koolzberg said:


> Protection is alright, but don't you have your own to penetrate. Udhar bhi import.



Yeah we got highly talented people who can persuade other easily so just sit back and relax..


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## TheTallGuy

شاھین میزایل said:


> ammi i did not get it?
> 
> Did the French actually train Pakistani citizens who were Exchange pilots in Qatari Air Force?



I know one thing this is not done for first time...French trained Egyptian Pilots before 1973 War on Libyan Mirage 5s and they did take part in 1973 War Libyan Mirages Egyptian Pilots but our case is different we will never have Qatari Rafale available for War against India...


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## koolzberg

Umar Nazir said:


> F16 is enough to smash refale





ProudPak said:


> Oh dear...
> Spot the little indian mind.
> Let me spell it out for u
> 
> Pakistanis will know first hand limitations of this amazing aircraft.



After knowing the limitations, what will you do? Import Rafales from France or turn your JF-17 into Rafale? Any which way, you will be on a fun ride!!!



Black_Wind said:


> Yeah we got highly talented people who can persuade other easily so just sit back and relax..


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## Strigon

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.




What are those Indian specific customization? Fantasy OS that boosts pilots dead morale? Inbuilt Surgical strike arcade style game? Or can the planes fly in dancing formations like if it’s a Bollywood song?

Regarding training, their point is to study the plane’s actual capacity. While you squeal here, they are probably compiling a training manual how to counter its capabilities or maybe already have.

Too much chest beating might fracture one of your ribs one day.

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## TheTallGuy

koolzberg said:


> After knowing the limitations, what will you do? Import Rafales from France or turn your JF-17 into Rafale? Any which way, you will be on a fun ride!!!



JF17 Thunder Block 3 or F-16s will have the tactics and EW capability and importantly will know how meteor is used? this is for pilots point of view...IAF should be worried about PAF engineers have gotten more then enough info or you can say hands on Intel on Rafale EW suite and radar 

This should be most worrisome!

On Side note....Remember PAF pilots and ground crew were exempted when UAE purchased F-16E/F ever thought why by US?

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## khanmubashir

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


You r right 
Even with access to Singaporean f16 iaf still had its arse handed to it by paf 



Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


You r right 
Even with access to Singaporean f16 iaf still had its arse handed to it by paf

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## TheTallGuy

IAF never had access to RSAF F-16s. they flew against them or you can say train against them ...which i doubt they learned much..but they never trained on them...

Big difference

PS: Now i understand Mirage 2000-5 of IAF with its Mica AAM was none issue at 27th Feb. some say blinded barely survived or may well be shot down as well.

I hope you understand Now....Modi Ka kiya hoga " Rafale hotey to ...." damn shi*t hits the fan!

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## khanmubashir

Iaf to qaf 
Why don't u let indaIn pilots fly yr rafales ????

Qaf to iaf.

We want our planes to fly


Not crash Sonny

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## Irfan Baloch

Mujahid Memon said:


> When will Pakistan end mental surgical strikes on India??


Never

Every day is a good day

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## Awan68

look at it this way, PAF now knows more about the true potential and weaknesses of the Rafaels then the IAF ever will.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

How far is Katar from Pak while riding on a Rafael???? By the by, the Katari Emirs have been holding their positions since the time of the Ottomans, and they have been very _Sadik_ folks ever since...

_Hodri Meydan*..._.

*(Translated to Pak) We shall surprise you...

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## pkd

Strigon said:


> What are those Indian specific customization? Fantasy OS that boosts pilots dead morale? Inbuilt Surgical strike arcade style game? Or can the planes fly in dancing formations like if it’s a Bollywood song?
> 
> Regarding training, their point is to study the plane’s actual capacity. While you squeal here, they are probably compiling a training manual how to counter its capabilities or maybe already have.
> 
> Too much chest beating might fracture one of your ribs one day.


Indian Specifications ?? 'India' and 'exclusive',Indian Configured ??

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TheTallGuy said:


> I know one thing this is not done for first time...French trained Egyptian Pilots before 1973 War on Libyan Mirage 5s and they did take part in 1973 War Libyan Mirages Egyptian Pilots but our case is different we will never have Qatari Rafale available for War against India...


Never say never.....



Secret Service said:


> Is India really successful in isolating Pakistan from other Muslim countries ?


BD and Indian Muslims: YES!!!! Iranians: May be!!!! Others: NEVER....

*NA thugs don't count...


----------



## ACE OF THE AIR

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> How far is Katar from Pak while riding on a Rafael???? By the by, the Katari Emirs have been holding their positions since the time of the Ottomans, and they have been very _Sadik_ folks ever since...
> 
> _Hodri Meydan*..._.
> 
> *(Translated to Pak) We shall surprise you...


not more than 20- min flight supersonic.

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## Umar Nazir

Indians crying. Twitter is full of their screaming

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## PakSword

zavis2003 said:


> With Indian customization Rafales will turn into lethal Migs Three Two One and Down :p


Yaar tu ne aaj ka din bana dia..

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## khanmubashir

I read somewhere but cant confirm that Pakistan pilots were involved in training on Saudi Typhoons too


koolzberg said:


> Lol, the Pakistanis here think that Qatar will allow Pakistanis to fly their Rafales against India in a skirmish.


No my child we r happy we get to get in one and actually already have before you and know it better than you do Sonny 
i

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

airmarshal said:


> I want to see this plane in Pakistani colors. Its sexy. Its capable and in hands of PAF, will do wonders.
> 
> I read somewhere but cant confirm that Pakistan pilots were involved in training on Saudi Typhoons too.


If memory doesn't fail me, Katar is buying Typhoons too...

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## ACE OF THE AIR

khanmubashir said:


> I read somewhere but cant confirm that Pakistan pilots were involved in training on Saudi Typhoons too


Don't know if they did train but did give the Typhoons of the ITALIAN Air Force a shock of their life.

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## Stealth

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.



having access and fully trained completely different thing... i have access to my friend lamborghini that doesn't mean i can understand about the real experience of lambo driving (handling, speed, acceleration etc)

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TheTallGuy said:


> I think They believed in Kill Switches


Reverend Mastan Bey (@MastanKhan) left them with no other options but to believe in "Kill Switch" working against the IAF too...

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## ACE OF THE AIR

Stealth said:


> having access and fully trained completely different thing... i have access to my friend lamborghini that doesn't mean i can understand about the real experience of lambi driving (max turn, speed, acceleration etc)


It all depends on tactics. What PAF enjoys in QAF is they do every thing.



Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Reverend Mastan Bey (@MastanKhan) left them with no other options but to believe in "Kill Switch" working against the IAF too...


The indians will be biting their nails and scratching their hair off (if they have any by now).

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## Counter-Errorist

koolzberg said:


> After knowing the limitations, what will you do? Import Rafales from France or turn your JF-17 into Rafale? Any which way, you will be on a fun ride!!!



Ask your Su30 pilots. They now know what we do after studying the limits of their rides. You might have to shake them back from their PTSDs once in a while.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Shane said:


> Keep crying dear, get used to it, plenty more to come.
> View attachment 552444


Don't underestimate the power of crying!!!!! Crying at full throttle, coming from the crib at 3AM in the night, can drive you crazy....



war&peace said:


> Customisation does not change the A/C altogether...only a few subsystems can be different but the flying characteristics remain the same.
> 
> 
> Customisation does not change the overall flying characteristics. Only a few subsystems can be different.


Customization by the IAF makes the stuffs worse: Su-30 case....

Too many cooks spoil the broth...

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## Umair Nawaz

hunter_hunted said:


> Does indian specification means you get two extra vedic wings or 5 landing gears or vedic engine having vedic a-fart-er burner and vedic internet invented 5000years ago.


which uses Cow urine as fuel?

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## Taimur Khurram

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.



Is that why they gave you so much trouble back in February?

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Haroon Baloch said:


> I bet they will approach France again with some bullish reason to stop this happening lol. Its amazing how Pakistan is keep giving heart breaking news to India everyday since 26th Feb. Now what they're gonna claim? if we had an UFO than Pakistan wouldn't dare to cross the boarder?


They do have UFOs!!!! But, their UFOs are like themselves!!!! And, there might be some UFOs who are like Pak - "daring mad max", "shoot first think later" type...

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## Yaseen1

I think india should not sell tejas to any arab or other nation having friendly relations with us otherwise we will also get access to tejas. India should not buy rafale but spend this money on tejas as it is much better for them now after this


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## ACE OF THE AIR

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> They do have UFOs!!!! But, their UFOs are like themselves!!!! And, there might be some UFOs who are like Pak - "daring mad max", "shoot first think later" type...


Like we did on 27th? shot down Mig-21 and SU-30MKI. Till now India is asking question "what just happened? F-16 or JF-17? AMRAAM or SD-10?

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## Umar Nazir

PAF walo Zalmo Refale india mein aney tou daity pehly and kuch month indians ko khush ho lainey daity Refale sey khail ker. Becharo ke party spoil ker de

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## crankthatskunk

Damn Pakistanis. Says Modi Chowkidar. 
What my excuse next!!! Says MC (Read Ma C)

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Aasimkhan said:


> Now BS (Bull Sh*t) Dhanoa will say we need F22 for countering PAF


Producing BS comes natural to BS, who has made it to the top-most IAF post for a reason....


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## ACE OF THE AIR

Umar Nazir said:


> PAF walo Zalmo Refale india mein aney tou daity pehly and kuch month indians ko khush ho lainey daity Refale sey khail ker. Becharo ke party spoil ker de


PAF actually working on Bollywood dialog form the Movie Sholay.
"Loha garam hai ... Maar do hathouda"

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## crankthatskunk

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Producing BS comes natural to BS, who has made it to the top-most IAF post for a reason....



His name is Dhan O A (come money come) for a reason.

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## Umar Nazir

ACE OF THE AIR said:


> PAF actually working on Bollywood dialog form the Movie Sholay.
> "Loha garam hai ... Maar do hathouda"


one indian at twitter "Pakistanis fly almost every fighter jet, we should be focus on Tejas "

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## Strigon

TheTallGuy said:


> IAF never had access to RSAF F-16s. they flew against them or you can say train against them ...which i doubt they learned much..but they never trained on them...
> 
> Big difference
> 
> PS: Now i understand Mirage 2000-5 of IAF with its Mica AAM was none issue at 27th Feb. some say blinded barely survived or may well be shot down as well.
> 
> I hope you understand Now....Modi Ka kiya hoga " Rafale hotey to ...." damn shi*t hits the fan!




I would say that they can have access to the most latest block too if they wanted to try out that block 70 offered to them but like you said key is learning from it which they haven’t done so far for some brilliant reason. 

I think they have too many expectations from Rafael, maybe it will fly auto pilot for them so they don’t have to make mistakes?

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## Chhatrapati

The bragging looks like Pakistanis owns some Rafales.


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## ACE OF THE AIR

Umar Nazir said:


> one indian at twitter "Pakistanis fly almost every fighter jet, we should be focus on Tejas "


Think this Indian does not know the capabilities of Indians making the stuff thats the reason he is still hoping to make this flightless bird fly.

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## BATMAN

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.


When they come? pare!

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## Irfan Baloch

Windjammer said:


> @Oscar @Hodor @Bilal Khan 777 @Irfan Baloch @HRK @Areesh @Taimoor Khan


now Modi has a ready made excuse when IAF will get the next beating

he will complain that PAF had trained on Rafales this is why IAF got beat
then India will lodge a formal complaint with Qatar for using PAF pilots for training its airforce

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## Shane

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Don't underestimate the power of crying!!!!! Crying at full throttle, coming from the crib at 3AM in the night, can drive you crazy....


Trust me, lol, I know thrice as many times exactly what you mean, AlhamduLillah, lol.

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## BATMAN

Irfan Baloch said:


> now Modi has a ready made excuse when IAF will get the next beating
> 
> he will complain that PAF had trained on Rafales this is why IAF got beat
> then India will lodge a formal complaint with Qatar for using PAF pilots for training its airforce



US is a strong candidate, if modi won't buy F-16 than somebody else will.
You will see that after elections.

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## TheTallGuy

Vishnu Som Twitter is being bombed! Time was right! 

India has woke up ---just read the tweets 


@Windjammer give credit where its due?


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## crankthatskunk

Chhatrapati said:


> The bragging looks like Pakistanis owns some Rafales.



Nope, why should we!! 
We can just wait for the Indians to destroy their reputations. Don't worry you don't have to wait for long. 
It took French few decades to buy some customers finally for Rafales. 
Damn Stupid Indians. Say Frenchmen, very soon.

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## Shane

Chhatrapati said:


> The bragging looks like Pakistanis owns some Rafales.


No dear, no bragging, just contentment that our pilots are experiencing it inside out first hand like the Chinese Flankers, lol, and we all know how that experience has worked out in our favour. 

Oh, by the way, I'm sincerely being sympathetic.

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## TheTallGuy

Chhatrapati said:


> The bragging looks like Pakistanis owns some Rafales.



Its about knowing not about owning!

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## Chhatrapati

crankthatskunk said:


> Nope, why should we!!
> We can just wait for the Indians to destroy their reputations. Don't worry you don't have to wait for long.
> It took French few decades to buy some customers finally for Rafales.
> Damn Stupid Indians. Say Frenchmen, very soon.


 Still spewing BS around?


----------



## Skyliner

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


But all that nullifies when IAF potato flies it and later on lands with an umbrella

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## pkd

Irfan Baloch said:


> now Modi has a ready made excuse when IAF will get the next beating
> 
> he will complain that PAF had trained on Rafales this is why IAF got beat
> then India will lodge a formal complaint with Qatar for using PAF pilots for training its airforce


India should lodge a formal complaint with Qatar right now. In fact it should serve a damarche to Qatar, France, MDBA and RBE2 radar.

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## Chhatrapati

TheTallGuy said:


> Its about knowing not about owning!


You should own one to understand the limitations through hours of flying on it. French would be stupid to give go ahead on operating their AESA for training to non-partners. If you believe a training would reveal all the limitations of the jet, good luck to you. Even the Russians didn't agree their non partners to operate their PESA during a routine exercise.



Shane said:


> No dear, no bragging, just contentment that our pilots are experiencing it inside out first hand like the Chinese Flankers, lol, and we all know how that experience has worked out in our favour.
> 
> Oh, by the way, I'm sincerely being sympathetic.


Yeah, well. Your sympathies should be for the ones who can't own a 4++ Gen fighter.  Misplaced priorities as usual.


----------



## crankthatskunk

Chhatrapati said:


> Still spewing BS around?


BS!!! Are you looking for BS Dhanoa!!

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## Chhatrapati

crankthatskunk said:


> BS!!! Are you looking for BS Dhanoa!!


Nah, your scientific theories of Orbital Satellites. Don't quote me dude, not interested in your buffoonery.


----------



## ProudPak

koolzberg said:


> After knowing the limitations, what will you do? Import Rafales from France or turn your JF-17 into Rafale? Any which way, you will be on a fun ride!!!


Oh dear....now i know i am speaking to an indisn numbnut. Well ask abinandhan (o u cant as he has vanished) what jf17 can do

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## TheTallGuy

You dont get it do you? PAF pilots and Ground crew had access to Qatari Rafale..in 2017. its been more then 2 years ..its not our fault you are up from your slumber today.

sincerely
One thing is for sure your IAF knew it, Indian MOD knew it but Modi Money mind do not care...

PAF believes IAF is professional force. Every pilot is an ace and IAF serviceability rates are above 90% and they have best ESM/ECM assets.

With this is the mind set make PAF a good Air Force. The way Modi has thrown IAF in front of a bus on Rafale is upsetting and outright disgusting..just for votes he has destroyed the credibility of 678 fighter aircraft and 900-1000 pilots...even W/C.Abhi is professional brave pilot.

Sincere Caution!
What do you think about defection of plane and pilot.

food for thought!

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## MastanKhan

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Reverend Mastan Bey (@MastanKhan) left them with no other options but to believe in "Kill Switch" working against the IAF too...



Hi,

Most people don't understand what I had done---but thank you---.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TheTallGuy said:


> Sincere Caution!
> What do you think about *defection* of plane and pilot.
> 
> food for thought!


Joy ride, home sickness, a sudden burst of dementia, delusion (Indian style) etc....

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## Umar Nazir

its biggest attack on indian , even biggest than 27 feb, at least indian cries on twitter clearly shows that

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## Falcon26

Chhatrapati said:


> You should own one to understand the limitations through hours of flying on it. French would be stupid to give go ahead on operating their AESA for training to non-partners. If you believe a training would reveal all the limitations of the jet, good luck to you. Even the Russians didn't agree their non partners to operate their PESA during a routine exercise.
> 
> 
> Yeah, well. Your sympathies should be for the ones who can't own a 4++ Gen fighter.  Misplaced priorities as usual.



Years of training against PLAAF SU-30s is the reason why PAF easily took SU-30 out of the equation on February 27th skirmish

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## Chhatrapati

Falcon26 said:


> Years of training against PLAAF SU-30s is the reason why PAF easily took SU-30 out of the equation on February 27th skirmish


And then there are people who believe earth is flat.


----------



## BATMAN

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Most people don't understand what I had done---but thank you---.



I'm out of most lot.

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## Falcon26

Chhatrapati said:


> And then there are people who believe earth is flat.



Indians would be those people

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## Chhatrapati

Falcon26 said:


> Indians would be those people


Can't help if you really cant look in the mirror.


----------



## ACE OF THE AIR

Umar Nazir said:


> its biggest attack on indian , even biggest than 27 feb, at least indian cries on twitter clearly shows that


What else can cry babies do other than cry

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## crankthatskunk

Chhatrapati said:


> Nah, your scientific theories of Orbital Satellites. Don't quote me dude, not interested in your buffoonery.


Show me your picture, I want to see a buffoon. Damn Stupid Indians. 
I am sure the Satellites go around your house.

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## MastanKhan

Falcon26 said:


> Years of training against PLAAF SU-30s is the reason why PAF easily took SU-30 out of the equation on February 27th skirmish



Hi,

There was one training recently held in pakistan---but then was one held in china against J11's etc last year---prior to this one---the reports came out bad for the JF17---pitched against the J11's---.

We would love to know if the report was intentionally sabotaged by the paf / Plaaf---.

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## TheTallGuy

Mr.Chattrapati why are you ignoring my question? Pathankot is not far from Lahore airport.

@MastanKhan things are different now. when a car driver can stop and ask a serving high ranking officer about what you guys are doing about 26th Feb Debacle (Letting them go!) you can get the drift do you!

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## Umar Nazir

whats happening in Karachi. any thing serious ???????


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## TheTallGuy

Umar Nazir said:


> whats happening in Karachi. any thing serious ???????



its night....calm cool breeze

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## PurAzamBaHadaf

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116030128415563777
Is this a big deal? Curious to see the reaction from India on this.


----------



## zulu

Thread already going over 11 pages now
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...y-qatari-rafales.612940/page-11#post-11361629

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## PurAzamBaHadaf

zulu said:


> Thread already going over 11 pages now
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...y-qatari-rafales.612940/page-11#post-11361629



woops, didnt see that. Can someone lock this thread in that case.

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## Fledgingwings

what does paf pilots have to do with this?


----------



## Trailer23

TheTallGuy said:


> its night....calm cool breeze


Same here in Sharjah  .


----------



## Shane

Chhatrapati said:


> Yeah, well. Your sympathies should be for the ones who can't own a 4++ Gen fighter.  Misplaced priorities as usual.


Didn't turn out too well for the 4 - - Gen Supa Dupa Mki, sure you wanna use that lame excuse again? lol

Don't get me wrong now, my most sincere sympathies are still with the ones with quite a few AMRAAMS stuck up their @rse, with ample proof provided by the iodine deficient reps themselves of the self proclaimed 56" well endowed crackpot, lol.

The misplaced priorities, lol, were handled with precision and in broad daylight too as opposed to a night time panicky Crow killing border run.

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## SorryNotSorry

Well played Pakistan, well played.

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## Trailer23

Windjammer said:


> What is there to notify, does India thinks US sold AMRAAMS to Pakistan to be used against the Taliban Air Force.


If PDF had a '*GOLD*' Smily/Icon - I would've clicked on it, for that statement. For now, '' will have to do...

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## waz

The IAF can't escape the PAF muhahahahah.

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## Path-Finder

waz said:


> The IAF can't escape the PAF muhahahahah.

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## Trailer23

waz said:


> The IAF can't escape the PAF


And nether can this basanti…






Jeez, she looks like the love child of Lucifer & Christine Fair.

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## Path-Finder

Just read the comments Pakistani's have trolled the indians and the bakth are vacant!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116030128415563777

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## valkyr_96

SorryNotSorry said:


> Well played Pakistan, well played.


it's common for this to happen in ME only the Americans barred their articles hoping to sell f16s to India (block 52+).


----------



## Raider 21

Windjammer said:


> *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*
> 
> *First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
> by Jon Lake
> - February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> 
> 
> The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.
> 
> *Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.
> 
> Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar


So that means IAF and PAF pilots trained together as the first cadre of IAF pilots were there at the Esquadron that trains all air force, navy and exchange Rafale pilots.

I still think it is nonsense as the Qatar AF does not allow our fighter jocks on Mirage 2000s, hence the Rafale is out of the question. No PAF pilot has started nor completed a conversion course on the Rafale.

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## Shane

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Most people don't understand what I had done---but thank you---.


You set the bar high but above all else, you drag the average keyboard warrior at 0 to at least the next level of exo geometric thinking, so to speak lol, helps the quality and standards immensely.

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## Raider 21

khanmubashir said:


> I read somewhere but cant confirm that Pakistan pilots were involved in training on Saudi Typhoons too
> 
> No my child we r happy we get to get in one and actually already have before you and know it better than you do Sonny
> i


No PAF pilots were involved on the Saudi Typhoons, neither Eagles neither Tornados....

Closest so far now are F-16s recently at Bahrain.



Oscar said:


> So far Pakistani pilots have flown and familiarized themselves with most of India’s too fighters included a brief stint in the MKM(although that spectre has already been blown out of the sky.. literally).
> 
> It seems Pakistani familiarity with Indian aircraft is showing more than the F-16 obsession by India.
> Once the JF-17 comes up, India will have to wait for Burma or Nigeria to give them an idea of what it can do.
> 
> So far there is no interest in PAF testing the Tejas, until they manage to build and fly more than 20 operational ones.
> 
> 
> Configuration to what extent?
> BS from Indians. The radar is the same, the EW practically the same, the interface will be the same and so on.


Sorry but the title is misleading as no PAF pilots have trained on Rafales for the Qatar AF.



__Jihadi__ said:


> Capabilities of our Air force personnel are something extraordinary and the credit goes to the ISSB and PAF training programs, that is also an answer regarding why we have such a higher rejection rate and thanks to Abhinandan and Modi the whole world saw it in a broad daylight.
> this training and experience will also help our developing fighter industry.


It is the PAF Academy. One of the finest institutions (FIS included) within Pakistan.



شاھین میزایل said:


> Jammi i did not get it?
> 
> Did the French actually train Pakistani citizens who were Exchange pilots in Qatari Air Force?


PAF has no exchange combat pilots with Qatar AF. One senior retired PAF pilot is currently working there in the training wing, the rest have been sent on one-way deputation assignments as instructors on the primary and basic flying training roles.

No PAF fighter jocks have been on the Rafale in France. Now ground crew is another story.....

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## baqai

Indian Pilots: We are going to learn to fly Rafale in Sept
PAF Pilots: (YAWN) been there done that

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## Raider 21

airmarshal said:


> I want to see this plane in Pakistani colors. Its sexy. Its capable and in hands of PAF, will do wonders.
> 
> I read somewhere but cant confirm that Pakistan pilots were involved in training on Saudi Typhoons too.


Negative on the Typhoons training. 

I agree. Very capable jet. Excellent weapons package combined with a reliable engine and aircraft performance. Avionics are superb as well.

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## mingle

Bahrain is also asking PAF pilots for blk 70 F16s r in pipeline

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## SQ8

Knuckles said:


> No PAF pilots were involved on the Saudi Typhoons, neither Eagles neither Tornados....
> 
> Closest so far now are F-16s recently at Bahrain.
> 
> 
> Sorry but the title is misleading as no PAF pilots have trained on Rafales for the Qatar AF.
> 
> 
> It is the PAF Academy. One of the finest institutions (FIS included) within Pakistan.
> 
> 
> PAF has no exchange combat pilots with Qatar AF. One senior retired PAF pilot is currently working there in the training wing, the rest have been sent on one-way deputation assignments as instructors on the primary and basic flying training roles.
> 
> No PAF fighter jocks have been on the Rafale in France. Now ground crew is another story.....


Knew one pilot there for the M2ks.. but was likely on the F-1 prior to it so it seemed they might have continued the program.
But, exchange pilot seemed odd: usually isn’t it retirees ending up taking the expat job?

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## TheTallGuy

According to this November 2016 report in Arabic, Qatar had sent two Pakistan Air Force pilots to train on Rafale. India signed the Rafale deal with France in September 2016.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116033386408304642

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## Shane

Knuckles said:


> I still think it is nonsense as the Qatar AF does not allow our fighter jocks on Mirage 2000s, hence the Rafale is out of the question. No PAF pilot has started nor completed a conversion course on the Rafale.


Just quoting a Middle East source from 2016:



















الرئيسية



أخبار عاجلة



مقاتلات رافال الفرنسية
*قطر ترسل طيارين باكستانيين لباريس للتدريب على طائرات "رافال"*
حجم الخط: ع ع ع


إضافة تعليق
وكالات الأنباء
الأحد، 27 نوفمبر 2016 01:30 م

كشفت تقارير إعلامية، عن إرسال حكومة قطر طيارين باكستانيين للتدريب على طائرات رافال الفرنسية، كان قد تم التعاقد مع باريس على شرائها مؤخراً.

وقالت التقارير، إن الحكومة القطرية كانت قد تعاقدت مع فرنسا على شراء 24 طائرة مقاتلة من طراز رافال، بقيمة 6.3 مليار يورو، فى مايو الماضى، وطالبت بعد ذلك برفع الصفقة إلى 36 طائرة، بقيمة 9.45 مليار يورو.

وكشفت التقارير، أن الحكومة القطرية لم ترسل طيارين قطريين للتدريب على طائرات الرافال، وإنما أوفدت طيارين باكستانيين إلى العاصمة الفرنسية باريس.

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## PakSword

SorryNotSorry said:


> Well played Pakistan, well played.


Abb tou tum logon ko aadat hojani chahiey!



Fledgingwings said:


> what does paf pilots have to do with this?


aein weein mashkari ki hai..

check kia hai race aur brake kaisay lagtay hain.. gear kitni tezi se change hotay hain.. charhai pe kitni tezi se jati hai, utrai pe brakes sahi kaam kartay hain ya jawab dejatay hain.. ghoomti kitni jaldi hai.. andar radio waghaira kaisa laga hua hai.. FM ki frequencies kahan se kahan tak hain..

Mashkari hai aur kuchh nahi..

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## Cash GK

Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.


And still afraid of f 16 cry like baby in front of usa.we never cry when you buy hight tech.. This is the difference between you and us..We know our skills and we know we can beat you in any machine..

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## Vortex

Umar Nazir said:


> one indian at twitter "Pakistanis fly almost every fighter jet, we should be focus on Tejas "



I don't have tweeter account, but someone should ask them if they need our pilots for trainning IAF pilot to fly tejas !
It would be very useful !

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## Cash GK

TheTallGuy said:


> Indian Customize version of Rafale? well basics like Radar & Spectra ECM/ESM remains the same. you are is what you trained for...so french have trained the same way as Indian Pilots too. so tactics/employment and maintenance would be same.
> *
> "Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing."
> *
> other then Sniper XR Qatari & Indian Rafale are same even the HMS!
> 
> I think such big investment has gone down the drain PAF is or was involved from 2017 so now we could understand delay and specs modifications on JF17 Thunder Block 3 and new AAM.
> 
> IAF is in Trouble!!!


With out Pakistani experts oppion Arabs never buy tech.. all Arabs buy jet after getting input from pak military experts..they know in war Pakistani will fly these jets only..

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## Raider 21

Oscar said:


> Knew one pilot there for the M2ks.. but was likely on the F-1 prior to it so it seemed they might have continued the program.
> But, exchange pilot seemed odd: usually isn’t it retirees ending up taking the expat job?


Alphajets actually. He took a few rides in the 2000 but no flight rating. F1 squadrons had PAF pilots on them before they were retired.


----------



## Shane

There was news posted on WAFF around the same time too back in 2016:

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## SQ8

Knuckles said:


> Alphajets actually. He took a few rides in the 2000 but no flight rating. F1 squadrons had PAF pilots on them before they were retired.


Im more curious as how these rumors then came about. I know our pilots have had rides in the Rafale more than once (two I know of have flown the F-35 sim as well) but how is this persistent rumor going on?

It would be funny if it turns out some journalist took an opinion here and made a news article out of it.
Now we have mystery “Pakistani” pilots on the Rafale.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Thank you Qatar.

Modi, even your Rafales won’t help you. Pakistan will learn all the ins and outs before you even get them.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Knuckles said:


> So that means IAF and PAF pilots trained together as the first cadre of IAF pilots were there at the Esquadron that trains all air force, navy and exchange Rafale pilots.
> 
> I still think it is nonsense as the Qatar AF does not allow our fighter jocks on Mirage 2000s, hence the Rafale is out of the question. No PAF pilot has started nor completed a conversion course on the Rafale.


Rafael is the leveler....

(Original) Death is the leveler...

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## Shane

Oscar said:


> Im more curious as how these rumors then came about. I know our pilots have had rides in the Rafale more than once (two I know of have flown the F-35 sim as well) but how is this persistent rumor going on?
> 
> It would be funny if it turns out some journalist took an opinion here and made a news article out of it.
> Now we have mystery “Pakistani” pilots on the Rafale.


Well, Rafael is 4++ Gen for sure but what is going on social media is much ahead of it, lol.

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## TheTallGuy

Shane said:


> There was news posted on WAFF around the same time too back in 2016:
> 
> View attachment 552521



Is it me or the person standing 2nd from right looks like W/C Nauman?


----------



## Zarvan

I am just enjoying Indian reactions on this news on twitter. It's way to much fun to be ignored

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## Safriz

Knuckles said:


> No PAF pilots were involved on the Saudi Typhoons, neither Eagles neither Tornados....
> 
> Closest so far now are F-16s recently at Bahrain.
> 
> 
> Sorry but the title is misleading as no PAF pilots have trained on Rafales for the Qatar AF.
> 
> 
> It is the PAF Academy. One of the finest institutions (FIS included) within Pakistan.
> 
> 
> PAF has no exchange combat pilots with Qatar AF. One senior retired PAF pilot is currently working there in the training wing, the rest have been sent on one-way deputation assignments as instructors on the primary and basic flying training roles.
> 
> No PAF fighter jocks have been on the Rafale in France. Now ground crew is another story.....


and who the hell are you making such tall claims?


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

The last time this Rafael (Jacob), from the _Beni Israil_, showed up when Pak wasn't prepared!!!! Looks like they're covering their bases this time....

One _Musibet_ is better than a thousand _Nesihat_...

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## Trailer23

TheTallGuy said:


> Is it me or the person standing 2nd from right looks like W/C Nauman?


No dude...that is diffidently not w/c Nauman A.K.


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## Raider 21

شاھین میزایل said:


> and who the hell are you making such tall claims?


That is none of your concern if you don't like what I have said. 

Behave.



Oscar said:


> Im more curious as how these rumors then came about. I know our pilots have had rides in the Rafale more than once (two I know of have flown the F-35 sim as well) but how is this persistent rumor going on?
> 
> It would be funny if it turns out some journalist took an opinion here and made a news article out of it.
> Now we have mystery “Pakistani” pilots on the Rafale.


It happens. You and I both know how some of the media would like it to be news than actual facts itself.

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## Shane

TheTallGuy said:


> Is it me or the person standing 2nd from right looks like W/C Nauman?


Hmm you, but interesting notion, I wonder what the Indians would say if he really is that guy... Itni na bajao bhai, they are already on the verge of digital suicide, lol. The French must be all ready cursing that they didn't charge India extra extra enough, lol, for all the nervous whining for no reason, lol.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Zarvan said:


> I am just enjoying Indian reactions on this news on twitter. It's way to much fun to be ignored


When _Allah-u Azimushshan_ opens a door it can't be closed. When HE closes a door it can't be opened...

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## Thorough Pro

and not just ordinary pilots, if you can call a Pakistani Fighter pilot an ordinary pilot, but fighter instructors to not only train the Qatri pilots but also devise the fighting strategies, so essentially Pakistani pilots already know how to flight and fight and the good and bad of the jet even before it is delivered to India.




Windjammer said:


> *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*
> 
> *First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
> by Jon Lake
> - February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> 
> 
> The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.
> 
> *Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.
> 
> Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar



and how did they utilized that info in the recent skirmishes? ….aah they lost two planes....




Srinivas said:


> Indian Rafales comes with India specific customization.
> 
> Regarding the training, people should know that Singapore Airforce practices with IAF in India often and we also have access to F16's.

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## Shahzaz ud din

*Pakistani fighter Pilot already trained with Rafael for almost two years!!!!*
_Since November 2017 Pakistan airforce exchange officers been training on Rafael_ which recently been provided to Qatar. Qatar ordered initially 24 rafael with 6 twin seaters and then further added 12 more to complete its 2 squadron requirements.

So our pilots and engineers already trained with Rafael for almost 1.5 years and please don't say why JF 17 Block III might be delayed due to "necessary" specs modification HMS & AAMs to counter Rafael. I wonder when pakistan & its armed forces will end the "surprise" element from indians mindset.







As feeku Modi said "outcome would have been different if Indian have Rafael" so chai wala chokidar, we exactly know what would be the outcome. So baby don't give us the story of Indian version of Rafael are customized version suite for indian needs as we heard the same stories for S 300 which russians provided for customized indian needs and they won't identify b/w a foe & friend bird and in result shot down its own MI 17.

The first Dassault Rafale for Qatar was ceremonially handed over at Dassault’s Merignac facility on Feb. 6, 2019. The ceremony was attended by a host of VIPs, including Qatar’s Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of State for Defence Affairs, HE Dr Khalid bin Mohamed al-Attiyah, Qatar's Ambassador to France, Sheikh Ali bin Jassim al-Thani,

Staff Major General (Pilot) Mubarak bin Mohamed Al Khayareen, Commander of the Qatar Amiri Air Force, and Staff Brigadier General (Engineer Air) Mohamed Mubarak al-Shahwani, as well as Geneviève Darrieussecq, Secretary of State to the French Minister of the Armed Forces, and Dassault Aviation chairman and CEO, Eric Trappier.

Qatar’s purchase of the Rafale follows on from earlier acquisitions of the Dassault Mirage F1, Alpha Jet, and Mirage 2000. “For the fourth time in our long and trustful partnership with Qatar, a Dassault Aviation aircraft will serve proudly in the Qatari Amiri Air Force,” said Trappier. “This first delivery is the culmination of a relationship started more than 40 years ago and I am very pleased and grateful that once again the State of Qatar has renewed its confidence in our dedication and confirmed not once, but twice, the choice of the Rafale to protect its land and people.”

During the ceremony, the new Qatari Rafale squadron was named "Al Adyiyat" after a Surah in the Koran, and a new squadron badge (a stylised Arab stallion’s head) was unveiled on the Rafale’s tailfin. During their visit, the Qatari Deputy PM and Amiri Air Force commander flew on board an Armée de l’Air Airbus A330 MRTT to watch Qatari Rafale pilots practicing air-to-air refueling.

Qatar signed a €6.3 billion agreement for the purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.






Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)


The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.

Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers. Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.

Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.



https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar

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## Safriz

Knuckles said:


> That is none of your concern if you don't like what I have said.
> 
> Behave.
> 
> 
> It happens. You and I both know how some of the media would like it to be news than actual facts itself.


Yes sure 
https://www.gulf-times.com/story/49...ct-to-purchase-trainer-aircraft-from-Pakistan

This is from June 2016


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## Path-Finder

india should cancel this deal and get F18's

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## Shane

Oscar said:


> Knew one pilot there for the M2ks.. but was likely on the F-1 prior to it so it seemed they might have continued the program.
> But, exchange pilot seemed odd: usually isn’t it retirees ending up taking the expat job?


I definitely remember reading somewhere that Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail used to fly F1s for Qatar.


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## zulu

INdia never going to buy anything with ""F"" in it so many time f**k either its F 16 or JF 17.one of reason to passed on F 21 deal (which was quite good ) 


Path-Finder said:


> india should cancel this deal and get F18's

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## zulu

Bhai share some sunna hai twitter py roona gaana start ho chuka unka 


Zarvan said:


> I am just enjoying Indian reactions on this news on twitter. It's way to much fun to be ignored


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## Zarvan

zulu said:


> Bhai share some sunna hai twitter py roona gaana start ho chuka unka


Yes they are crying like hell


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116026195349397504

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## Hassan Guy

it really is a great airplane


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## Safriz

Qatar only has 12,000 people in their armed forces. So its highly plausible they rely on friendly nations for certain critical arrangements such as training experienced pilots to train their pilots.
Qatar may not have enough experienced pilots to be eligible for becsoming the trainers on such an expencive and modern jet.



Shane said:


> I definitely remember reading somewhere that Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail used to fly F1s for Qatar.


Until 1999 PAF used to fly UAE F-16 fleet for them.
The gulf countries have small militaries with expensive equipment and rely on many foreign countries for training their people.

The nay sayers wont agree...


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## Philip the Arab

شاھین میزایل said:


> Qatar only has 12,000 people in their armed forces. So its highly plausible they rely on friendly nations for certain critical arrangements such as training experienced pilots to train their pilots.
> Qatar may not have enough experienced pilots to be eligible for becsoming the trainers on such an expencive and modern jet.
> 
> 
> Until 1999 PAF used to fly UAE F-16 fleet for them.
> The gulf countries have small militaries with expensive equipment and rely on many foreign countries for training their people.
> 
> The nay sayers wont agree...


Now they rely on themselves to pilot their planes in the UAE and man their equipment.


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## Safriz

Philip the Arab said:


> Now they rely on themselves to pilot their planes in the UAE and man their equipment.


yeah..UAE has established their pilots...many other gulf nations havent.


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## Philip the Arab

شاھین میزایل said:


> yeah..UAE has established their pilots...many other gulf nations havent.


Not many, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Oman all mostly have their own pilots. Remember hiring foreign pilots to fly your jets is like hiring mercenaries, they have no loyalty.


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## Safriz

Philip the Arab said:


> Not many, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Oman all mostly have their own pilots. Remember hiring foreign pilots to fly your jets is like hiring mercenaries, they have no loyalty.


Yeahh. We fought arab Israel war and Our Pilots had all the loyalty in the world..

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## Philip the Arab

شاھین میزایل said:


> Yeahh. We fought arab Israel war and Our Pilots had all the loyalty in the world..


Again, no loyalty. Say their interests are blatantly against Pakistan's for example, will Pakistani pilots really want to use the jets in combat?


----------



## Microsoft

Philip the Arab said:


> Again, no loyalty. Say their interests are blatantly against Pakistan's for example, will Pakistani pilots really want to use the jets in combat?



Your behavior is rather ungrateful and selfish. What does Pakistan have to lose by not fighting Israel? What does Pakistan have to gain when recognizing Israel? Fighting against and shooting down Israeli planes is actually against Pakistan's interests if you consider the bigger picture.

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## Safriz

Philip the Arab said:


> Again, no loyalty. Say their interests are blatantly against Pakistan's for example, will Pakistani pilots really want to use the jets in combat?


They will resign and come back home... Thats not called Disloyalty... Even own soldiers can resign,,

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## Raider 21

شاھین میزایل said:


> Qatar only has 12,000 people in their armed forces. So its highly plausible they rely on friendly nations for certain critical arrangements such as training experienced pilots to train their pilots.
> Qatar may not have enough experienced pilots to be eligible for becsoming the trainers on such an expencive and modern jet.
> 
> 
> Until 1999 PAF used to fly UAE F-16 fleet for them.
> The gulf countries have small militaries with expensive equipment and rely on many foreign countries for training their people.
> 
> The nay sayers wont agree...


PAF does not have anyone flying F-16s for UAE nor they ever had.

Source : ex-PAF pilots who flew and wrote the syllabus for FIS at AL Ain and No. 12 squadron at Minhad.

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## FuturePAF

With the Knowledge from the Rafale, the PAF pilots will definitely know what capabilities their future J-10s will need to have to match if not exceed the defenses of the Rafale.

If the IAF is going for these planes and presumably sending pilots there to train ahead of delivery later this year, and PAF pilots have been in France for the past few years for the Qatari Air Force, do you think they came across each other?

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## Khafee

شاھین میزایل said:


> Until 1999 PAF used to fly UAE F-16 fleet for them.
> The gulf countries have small militaries with expensive equipment and rely on many foreign countries for training their people.
> 
> The nay sayers wont agree...



UAE did not have F16s in 1999.

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## Philip the Arab

Microsoft said:


> Your behavior is rather ungrateful and selfish. What does Pakistan have to lose by not fighting Israel? What does Pakistan have to gain when recognizing Israel? Fighting against and shooting down Israeli planes is actually against Pakistan's interests if you consider the bigger picture.


I didn't say anything about Israel. I'm saying that say if hypothetically the Pakistani pilots were asked to attack a Pakistani ally the pilots would either leave, or defect with the planes which makes them the equivalent of mercenaries rather you like it or not.


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## Raider 21

Knuckles said:


> PAF does not have anyone flying F-16s for UAE nor they ever had.
> 
> Source : ex-PAF pilots who flew and wrote the syllabus for FIS at AL Ain and No. 12 squadron at Minhad.




The closest foreigner they've had other than contracted American personnel and their own UAE pilots is a single British guy, who flew Vipers on exchange for USAF or ANG.

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## Microsoft

Philip the Arab said:


> I didn't say anything about Israel. I'm saying that say if hypothetically the Pakistani pilots were asked to attack a Pakistani pilots then the said pilots would either leave, or defect which makes them the equivalent of mercenaries rather you like it or not.



No I think you are confusing an ally for a mercenary. A mercenary by definition has no allegiance and _will_ fight against their own country if they are paid to do so. An ally will not fight against the country to which they have sworn allegiance to first. That is not a bad thing every single soldier would follow this doctrine. Think of blackwater, they are mercenaries I would bet if a country had enough money they could hire blackwater to fight against US forces. (if the US allowed for something like that) A soldier from Pakistan, KSA, Iran, USA, etc. represent the interest of their country regardless of pay.

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## Safriz

Knuckles said:


> PAF does not have anyone flying F-16s for UAE nor they ever had.
> 
> Source : ex-PAF pilots who flew and wrote the syllabus for FIS at AL Ain and No. 12 squadron at Minhad.


We here are not writing text books, instead creating a narrative beneficial for current Situation.. YOu dont have to jomp in everything.. You and Oscar can have a PM conversation.

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## Safriz

Knuckles said:


> I lose nothing nor gain anything other than correcting the misconceptions. So stop dictating me or Oscar on what to do.


Yeah, certain things dont need correction and are better off left uncorrected.. We also dont gain anythong from your or Oscar's forced correction..
This is 5th generation warfare and certain narratives need to be created...
Not wasting my time with any of you anymore...

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## khanasifm

Qatari airforce personal graduated from paf academy and other institutions now getting first chance on rafael

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## MastanKhan

Philip the Arab said:


> Not many, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Oman all mostly have their own pilots. Remember hiring foreign pilots to fly your jets is like hiring mercenaries, they have no loyalty.



Hi,

That is incorrect for Pak military---. Pak military officer will obey the legal order---. If they signed up to do the job---they will complete it---.

All soldiers are mercenaries one way or the other---. The great Janissaries had loyalty to the king---nothing has changed---.

None knows better the service of the pak military soldiers than the Jordanians---once the soldier accepted the order---there was no stopping him---.

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## Safriz

Knuckles said:


> Behave.
> 
> Cheers !!!


lol sir... beleive me i am trying..
no offence

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## Raider 21

شاھین میزایل said:


> lol sir... beleive me i am trying..
> no offence


None taken. PM me if you are interested on knowing how I might know certain stuff or not. And I'm no sir......far from it.

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## war&peace

Umar Nazir said:


> F16 is enough to smash refale


JF17 block-III will be more advanced than any of our F16s.

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## Thorough Pro

Major Adnan Sami and Major @MastanKhan were batchmates, both class toppers 

QUOTE="Hakikat ve Hikmet, post: 11361335, member: 190933"]Reverend Mastan Bey (@MastanKhan) left them with no other options but to believe in "Kill Switch" working against the IAF too...[/QUOTE]

PAF doesn't even let the good news out, why do you think they let this particularly bad "news" out?



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> There was one training recently held in pakistan---but then was one held in china against J11's etc last year---prior to this one---the reports came out bad for the JF17---pitched against the J11's---.
> 
> We would love to know if the report was intentionally sabotaged by the paf / Plaaf---.

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## mingle

Not sure Qatar also bought 48 F15 and EF too I hope they have enough human resource for these planes I doubt it.

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## MastanKhan

Philip the Arab said:


> Again, no loyalty. Say their interests are blatantly against Pakistan's for example, will Pakistani pilots really want to use the jets in combat?



Hi,

That would be considered an " illegal order "---but some purely dedicated warriors will obey that order even----.

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## saif123

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/wer...ighters-in-qatar-2021283?pfrom=home-topscroll


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## Foxtrot Delta

koolzberg said:


> Lol, the Pakistanis here think that Qatar will allow Pakistanis to fly their Rafales against India in a skirmish.


You are totally missing the point here. There is something much more valueable in pakistani hands now than flying the rafale !

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## Foxtrot Delta

Should have kept such things secret. Now even indian media knows... A surpise on battlefield wasted.


----------



## Chhatrapati

Shane said:


> Didn't turn out too well for the 4 - - Gen Supa Dupa Mki, sure you wanna use that lame excuse again? lol
> 
> Don't get me wrong now, my most sincere sympathies are still with the ones with quite a few AMRAAMS stuck up their @rse, with ample proof provided by the iodine deficient reps themselves of the self proclaimed 56" well endowed crackpot, lol.
> 
> The misplaced priorities, lol, were handled with precision and in broad daylight too as opposed to a night time panicky Crow killing border run.


Typical bla bla BS. Not worth my time.


----------



## Shane

Chhatrapati said:


> Typical bla bla BS. Not worth my time.


Wow, that's exactly what comes to people's minds too whenever IAF (amateur, sorry premature) holds a press conference dear. You are not too different either, cheers!

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## wulff

Oscar said:


> So far Pakistani pilots have flown and familiarized themselves with most of India’s too fighters included a brief stint in the MKM(although that spectre has already been blown out of the sky.. literally).
> 
> It seems Pakistani familiarity with Indian aircraft is showing more than the F-16 obsession by India.
> Once the JF-17 comes up, India will have to wait for Burma or Nigeria to give them an idea of what it can do.
> 
> So far there is no interest in PAF testing the Tejas, until they manage to build and fly more than 20 operational ones.
> 
> 
> Configuration to what extent?
> BS from Indians. The radar is the same, the EW practically the same, the interface will be the same and so on.



What was the news regarding interaction with the MKM? And why was it blown out of the sky? I'm surprised the Indians were able to exert such influence on Malaysia.


----------



## Windjammer

I know some of us have a personal grudge against the PAF for giving verdicts which may have not suited some personally but a reminder is none the less required that it's not PAF making these claims, the news may have been picked up and published by the English Aviation journals now but same was reported by several Arab sources back in 2016.

* https://www.elmwatin.com/137998

http://www.alshouranews.com/1649281*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/802849080527507456

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## Alpha BeeTee

Apparantly the news is FAKE.


----------



## Aasimkhan

koolzberg said:


> After knowing the limitations, what will you do? Import Rafales from France or turn your JF-17 into Rafale? Any which way, you will be on a fun ride!!!


Right now its you who is on fun ride not us


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## rockstarIN




----------



## Windjammer

*Should IAF worry about Pakistani pilots 'flying' Qatar's Rafale jets?*


 By Justin Paul George April 11, 2019 10:48 IST




A Qatar Emiri Air Force Rafale | Dassault Aviation

Indians woke up on Thursday to see fresh uproar on social media over the Rafale fighter deal, triggered by a seemingly 'minor' detail in a two-month-old news report.

_Aviation International News _reported in February about the delivery of the first of 36 Rafale fighter jets for the small Gulf sheikdom of Qatar. In addition to giving details about the weapons, sensors and cost of the Qatari Rafale contracts, _Aviation International News _also described the training aspects. _Aviation International News _reported, “The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.” The Indian Air Force's first Rafale will be delivered in September this year.

The snippet was purportedly displayed on a Pakistani defence website on Wednesday and was promptly picked up by journalists and other social media users in India.




Dr.Jitendra Awhad

✔@Awhadspeaks
https://twitter.com/Awhadspeaks/status/1116081759723118594

First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar .... And the will be flown by pakistani pilots #modi wanted to keep the #Rafale a top secret and #Qatar buys #Rafale at 1/3 of indian price 
India probably getting a gold studded cockpit so the cost increased https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar …


173
9:53 PM - Apr 10, 2019 · Thane, India
Twitter Ads info and privacy



*First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
The Qatar Amiri Air Force has formally accepted its first Dassault Rafale, while training of personnel is being undertaken n France.

ainonline.com

74 people are talking about this



Taking to Twitter, Jitendra Awhad of the Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) taunted Prime Minister Narendra Modi over his government keeping the Rafale contract price a “top secret” even as Pakistani pilots were flying the aircraft for Qatar.

Not surprisingly, the uproar will lead to scrutiny over the likely impact for the Indian Air Force over Pakistani pilots getting knowledge about the Rafale from Qatar.

This is significant as the Qatar Emiri Air Force has ordered many of the same weapons the Indian Air Force has. Qatar signed a deal for 24 Rafale fighters and associated weaponry and training, worth approximately $7 billion, in May 2015. An additional 12 jets were ordered in December 2017.

_Air Recognition, _part of a group of websites based in Belgium, reported in 2015 that the weapons for Qatar's Rafale jets would include 140 Scalp cruise missiles, 300 MICA medium-range air-to-air missiles and 160 Meteor long-range missiles. All three weapon types have been ordered by the Indian Air Force.

_Aviation International News _reported Qatar's Rafale jets would use an American laser-targeting system and an Israeli-origin helmet-mounted display system (HMD). The Indian Air Force is also seeking an Israeli HMD for its Rafale jets!

One of the main arguments used by the Narendra Modi government against releasing pricing and technical details about the Rafale deal has been the purported need to protect the fighter's capabilities, including 13 'India-specific' enhancements. While the claim that Pakistani pilots are flying Qatar's Rafale fighters is likely to lead to questions, history shows this kind of partnership is hardly surprising.

Pakistan has had very close relationships with the oil-rich sheikhdoms of the Gulf for decades. Gulf states such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain have all hosted Pakistani military personnel.

In February 2018, it was reported approximately 1,300 Pakistani military personnel were deployed in Saudi Arabia. Pakistani pilots helped establish the modern Royal Saudi Air Force, even flying missions against Yemeni intruders in 1969.

_The Express Tribune, _a Pakistani publication, reported that 627 Pakistani personnel, including 462 from the Pakistan Navy and Air Force, were deployed in Qatar in February that year. The report added nearly 300 additional personnel could be deployed to Qatar for “training and advisory” roles.

In 2017, it was reported the Qatari government had requested Pakistani military assistance for security preparations for the 2022 FIFA World Cup.

It's not just European-origin weaponry that Pakistan has indirect access to. The Indian Air Force's current mainstay fighter is a version of the Su-30 supplied by Russia and fitted with Indian and foreign enhancements. However, Pakistan's main strategic ally, China, also operates over 200 fighters that are based on the Su-27 and Su-30. This includes at least 24 Su-35 jets, which features a more advanced radar and engine than the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI.

In September 2017, media agencies reported that a senior Pakistan Air Force officer had flown in a Chinese J-11B fighter. The J-11B, an indigenously built variant of the Su-27, participated in an exercise involving the air forces of Pakistan and China.

*ALSO READ*

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IAF rejects US media report, asserts it shot down Pakistan F-16 jet in dogfight
Four Chinooks inducted by IAF beef up security at China-Pak border
Foreign pilots getting access to a fighter—as in case of Pakistani personnel training on Qatar's Rafales—will get to understand its aerodynamic characteristics, electronics and capabilities of weapons. These may include factors like the range and capabilities of the radar, acceleration of the fighter and its 'turn rates', which would be decisive in gaining an edge in close combat and its visual and radar signatures. Such information is used by adversaries to modify their training and countermeasures capabilities and also develop new tactics.

However, many countries use customised communication and electronic warfare systems to ensure capabilities adversaries are unaware of, in addition to fitting indigenous weapons. THE WEEK reported in November 2017 the Indian Air Force has sought “radar enhancements that will provide better long-range capability” for its Rafale jets.

Geopolitical compulsions will ensure Pakistan remains a close ally to the Gulf sheikdoms, which will also give it access to modern weapons, many of which are being considered by India. For India, this necessitates a commitment to furthering indigenisation and maintaining superior training practices.

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## Champion_Usmani

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> When _Allah-u Azimushshan_ opens a door it can't be closed. When HE closes a door it can't be opened...


Indeed, its Haq, its true.

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## Umar Nazir

as expected , French Ambassador in India denied the news , by the way we all knows why he denied . 
Isn't we ??????

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## SQ8

Shane said:


> I definitely remember reading somewhere that Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail used to fly F1s for Qatar.


Well, as air force kids will testify @Knuckles .. 
postings aren’t splattered all over the news and any employments after retirements arent recorded for clips either. So there are cases where certain individuals with particular skillsets end up in lucrative jobs after retirement..



wulff said:


> What was the news regarding interaction with the MKM? And why was it blown out of the sky? I'm surprised the Indians were able to exert such influence on Malaysia.


MKM was a few backseat rides and interactions with their pilots.
MKI was blown out of the sky recently per reports.

Indians did provide key training to RMAF pilots.

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## sparten

Best thing is that since we are able to control develoopmet of Thunder as required, getting an imntimate knowledge of the Rafale sytstems will help us to counter them.
SPECTRA is one such system that I would want PAF to be able to counter. If we are able to programme the Software on the Thunders to identify and ignore the jamming ghosts that would be great.

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## Umar Nazir

sparten said:


> Best thing is that since we are able to control develoopmet of Thunder as required, getting an imntimate knowledge of the Rafale sytstems will help us to counter them.
> SPECTRA is one such system that I would want PAF to be able to counter. If we are able to programme the Software on the Thunders to identify and ignore the jamming ghosts that would be great.


true its just Spectra which make Refale better than JF-17 block-3. PAf have to counter this and Qatar is certainly a good opportunity for that. May b thats the reason we still importing costly LNG from Qatar


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## Novice09

Windjammer said:


> And what proof would satisfy you as i have posted the link to the news.



As per France government... it is a fake news... but I feel that it is not...



Windjammer said:


> I know some of us have a personal grudge against the PAF for giving verdicts which may have not suited some personally but a reminder is none the less required that it's not PAF making these claims, the news may have been picked up and published by the English Aviation journals now but same was reported by several Arab sources back in 2016.
> 
> * https://www.elmwatin.com/137998
> 
> http://www.alshouranews.com/1649281*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/802849080527507456



Given the relationship between PAKISTAN & Gulf... I would not be amazed if PAF have access to EFs too...



Oscar said:


> Well, as air force kids will testify @Knuckles ..
> postings aren’t splattered all over the news and any employments after retirements arent recorded for clips either. So there are cases where certain individuals with particular skillsets end up in lucrative jobs after retirement..
> 
> 
> MKM was a few backseat rides and interactions with their pilots.
> MKI was blown out of the sky recently per reports.
> 
> Indians did provide key training to RMAF pilots.



We Indians know the level of cooperation between Pakistan and other Gulf countries... plus Turkey... so, this news does not shocked me... Honestly...

Please help us in getting the details of second pilot... we are eagerly waiting for his nationality... If he is Indian, we will be thankful to Pakistan... and will teach a lesson to current government for hiding such a great sacrifice by our fallen HERO...

Per reports (in India)... he was flying a F 16 and has died as STATELESS ACTOR... like someone in Kargil...


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## Umar Nazir

Novice09 said:


> As per France government... it is a fake news... but I feel that it is not...
> 
> 
> 
> Given the relationship between PAKISTAN & Gulf... I would not be amazed if PAF have access to EFs too...
> 
> 
> 
> We Indians know the level of cooperation between Pakistan and other Gulf countries... plus Turkey... so, this news does not shocked me... Honestly...
> 
> Please help us in getting the details of second pilot... we are eagerly waiting for his nationality... If he is Indian, we will be thankful to Pakistan... and will teach a lesson to current government for hiding such a great sacrifice by our fallen HERO...
> 
> Per reports (in India)... he was flying a F 16 and has died as STATELESS ACTOR... like someone in Kargil...


denial is expected from french as its matter of looting more than 25 billion dollars from poor indians with the help of modi


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## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116286358157516802

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## Mahmood uz Zaman

If India don't mind we can train Indian pilots as well as we have trained Qatar Rafale pilots in Qatar.

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## BHarwana

This is not the first time same thing happened with Mig-21 long time back. Now next Pakistani jets will be a Rafale counter get ready

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## zulu

Its totally Fake news i m with Modi ji 56" waly .Bhai lainy du ussay lamba chona lagayaa hai Modi ny india ko compare it with first rafale agreement(also they skipped the very good F 21 deal ) .Modi India main bait kar Pakistan ki sewa kar raha hai karny du

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## Novice09

Umar Nazir said:


> denial is expected from french as its matter of looting more than 25 billion dollars from poor indians with the help of modi



Denial was expected... I also agree on that...

But you should come out from the shadow of Propaganda Disbursement Machines... let me put some FACTS...

1. Rafale deal is of 7.8 billion euros... for 36 jets...
25 billion dollars is 3times the ACTUAL COST

2. we have chosen to BUY Rafale Jets... instead of EF or SU or SH...
It was the IAF which wanted to BUY Rafale... and UPA government has shortlisted it...

3. Even after paying 7.8 billion... we Indians are far far away from BEGGING... We can handle such expenses from OUR OWN RESOURCES... Without credit line or loans...

4. Before you drag toilets... we are spending $8.6 billion on SWACCH BHARAT MISSION... and I personally know 30+ villages which are ODF now... post 2014...
*Open Defecation Free*


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## Umar Nazir

Novice09 said:


> Denial was expected... I also agree on that...
> 
> But you should come out from the shadow of Propaganda Disbursement Machines... let me put some FACTS...
> 
> 1. Rafale deal is of 7.8 billion euros... for 36 jets...
> 25 billion dollars is 3times the ACTUAL COST
> 
> 2. we have chosen to BUY Rafale Jets... instead of EF or SU or SH...
> It was the IAF which wanted to BUY Rafale... and UPA government has shortlisted it...
> 
> 3. Even after paying 7.8 billion... we Indians are far far away from BEGGING... We can handle such expenses from OUR OWN RESOURCES... Without credit line or loans...
> 
> 4. Before you drag toilets... we are spending $8.6 billion on SWACCH BHARAT MISSION... and I personally know 30+ villages which are ODF now... post 2014...
> *Open Defecation Free*


brother yes i knew current deal cost is only 7.8 billion, but remember India will purchase 112 more fighter jets as per MRCA tender and as per sources Refale is front runner for that. So its certainly the matter of more than 25 billion dollars


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## Zarvan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116312381431279617

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## TheTallGuy

Picture speaks thousand words...French are really shrewd Ambassador - he had to deny...who in right mind admitted when its about billions...french are doing frenchmenship. Vishnu som should ask him about this picture.

Shared by Windjammer 

That is ignored...why?


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## graphican

I am finding French are characterless. Show them money and they'd let their tongue dance for you.


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## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.*
> 
> *First Rafale Handed Over to Qatar*
> by Jon Lake
> - February 13, 2019, 4:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIPs from Qatar and France pose in front of the first Rafale to be handed over. The stylised Arab stallion graphic is the badge of the new Rafale squadron. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> purchase of 24 Rafales (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017. Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Rafales are being supplied with a range of advanced weaponry, along with the Sniper advanced targeting pod. (Photo: Dassault Aviation)
> 
> 
> The first Rafale DQ for Qatar, a two-seater, made its first flight on June 28, 2016, while the single-seat Rafale EQ flew for the first time on March 27, 2017. The aircraft are being supplied with MBDA MICA IR, MICA EM, and Meteor air-to-air missiles and with MBDA SCALP-EG cruise missiles and a range of air-to-ground weapons, including laser- and GPS-guided Safran AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) Hammer missiles.
> 
> *Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.* Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.
> 
> Under the SOUTEX program the Armee de l’Air is training 250 personnel who will man the first Qatari Rafale squadron. This unit will initially be commanded by a French officer until later this year when command will be transferred to a Qatari officer before the unit transfers to Qatar in the summer of 2020.
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar



Its now edited: 

_Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly._


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## Defense Reader

On serious note all is uncle sam ground leveling for its f21 aka f16 instead of rafale to counter indian concerns over experience on f16 by PAF.


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## TheTallGuy

So why did Reporter Jon Lake change the published article..and leave out Pakistani Pilots bits? under-pressure? whole of india didnt know about this the article was published 13-Feb-19. but now when simple indians are asking question poor reporter is pressured to change...

Its very fishy! Indo-French Relations are at stake - Scorpions are already done and dusted..by leaks and now Rafale

I will still say the way IAF is been manhandled by modi sooner then later we have to accept with open arms "IAF Defector and the plane" 

For ease can share open guard frequency so if any one planning to defect we make it easier! 

Pathankot isn`t that far from Lahore

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## valkyr_96

Zarvan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116312381431279617


Why would you post this? the two pilots are not the same.


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## The Eagle

Since the author Jon Lake has edited/updated the source article and removed content in regard to Pakistani Pilots on exchange program with Qatar being trained on Rafale; the thread is hereby closed for further discussion. However, another news source quotes further development as follows...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iaf-...s-of-pakistani-pilots-rafale-training.613184/

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