# Egypt has placed order for Su-35s



## Zarvan

http://alert5.com/2019/03/18/egypt-has-placed-order-for-su-35s/

Kommersant reports that Egypt has placed an order for “more than a dozen” Su-35 fighters at the end of last year.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

Zarvan said:


> http://alert5.com/2019/03/18/egypt-has-placed-order-for-su-35s/
> 
> Kommersant reports that Egypt has placed an order for “more than a dozen” Su-35 fighters at the end of last year.


Wtf is Egypt doing with all these different types of equipment?!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Maxpane

@Philip the Arab @The SC your input plz


----------



## Philip the Arab

This is a good purchase for Egypt if they can get the top of the line radar. The radar that Russia on their SU-35s uses can easily detect the F-35 much farther than any plane that Egypt uses. You see my input is they bought this as a counter to the F-35s Israel is operating and rightly so. I honestly think this is *fake news*, if it can be confirmed by a reliable source I will trust it.
Stop worrying about a confrontation between Egypt and Turkey because it isn't going to happen. NATO will surely mediate the confrontation before it happens.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Beast

Philip the Arab said:


> This is a good purchase for Egypt if they can get the top of the line radar. The radar that Russia on their SU-35s uses can easily detect the F-35 much farther than any plane that Egypt uses. You see my input is they bought this as a counter to the F-35s Israel is operating and rightly so. I honestly think this is *fake news*, if it can be confirmed by a reliable source I will trust it.
> Stop worrying about a confrontation between Egypt and Turkey because it isn't going to happen. NATO will surely mediate the confrontation before it happens.



Maybe Saudi wants Egypt to be the center of their Arabs military league due to Egypt larger manpower.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Philip the Arab

Beast said:


> Maybe Saudi wants Egypt to be the center of their Arabs military league due to Egypt larger manpower.


No, Saudi Arabia definitely wants to lead the "league". Maybe making Egypt their right hand man would work but trust me, Saudi Arabia wants to lead the Arab world and that's final.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## GumNaam

Philip the Arab said:


> No, Saudi Arabia definitely wants to lead the "league". Maybe making Egypt their right hand man would work but trust me, Saudi Arabia wants to lead the Arab world and that's final.


saudis can't they don't have the manpower.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Philip the Arab

GumNaam said:


> saudis can't they don't have the manpower.


They don't need the manpower. They have the strongest air force, navy, and best land equipment among the Arab states. The U.S. wants them to lead it and so do most of the allies of the Arab states including the Europeans.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

GumNaam said:


> saudis can't they don't have the manpower.


Precisely, Egypt will lead but Saudi is the one provide the most finance. So Saudi in some way can still exert some control or influence on Egypt.


----------



## Philip the Arab

Beast said:


> Precisely, Egypt will lead but Saudi is the one provide the most finance. So Saudi in some way can still exert some control or influence on Egypt.


Trust me, Trump wants the Saudis to lead the group. And what he says goes.


----------



## The SC

Maxpane said:


> @Philip the Arab @The SC your input plz


SU-35 was coming as a complement to the Mig-35.. it was announced by the official Egyptian TV channel.. the number was 29.. so this might be the first batch..

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Philip the Arab

The SC said:


> SU-35 was coming as a complement to the Mig-35.. it was announced by the official Egyptian TV channel.. the number was 29.. so this might be the first batch..


Which radar do you think they will receive? I thought the Su-35 was made as a counter to the F-35 and F-22 but I could be wrong and without the Russian radar the capabilities will be severely reduced.


----------



## The SC

Philip the Arab said:


> Which radar do you think they will receive? I thought the Su-35 was made as a counter to the F-35 and F-22 but I could be wrong and without the Russian radar the capabilities will be severely reduced.


Egypt will get the same current Radar as the Russian one.. AESA is coming for both SU-35 and MIG-35.. most likely by the end of this year if not before..

"The Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E is the top Russian air-superiority fighter in service today, and represents the pinnacle of fourth-generation jet fighter design. It will remain so until Russia succeeds in bringing its fifth-generation PAK-FA stealth fighter into production. 

Distinguished by its unrivaled maneuverability, most of the Su-35’s electronics and weapons capabilities have caught up with those of Western equivalents, like the F-15 Eagle. But while it may be a deadly adversary to F-15s, Eurofighters and Rafales, the big question mark remains how effectively it can contend with fifth-generation stealth fighters such as the F-22 and F-35.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...u-35-plane-air-force-should-worry-about-32517

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Signalian

The SC said:


> Egypt will get the same current Radar as the Russian one.. AESA is coming for both SU-35 and MIG-35.. most likely by the end of this year if not before..
> 
> "The Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E is the top Russian air-superiority fighter in service today, and represents the pinnacle of fourth-generation jet fighter design. It will remain so until Russia succeeds in bringing its fifth-generation PAK-FA stealth fighter into production.
> 
> Distinguished by its unrivaled maneuverability, most of the Su-35’s electronics and weapons capabilities have caught up with those of Western equivalents, like the F-15 Eagle. But while it may be a deadly adversary to F-15s, Eurofighters and Rafales, the big question mark remains how effectively it can contend with fifth-generation stealth fighters such as the F-22 and F-35.
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...u-35-plane-air-force-should-worry-about-32517


The top air superiority fighter isnt SU-57 ? and if EAF is buying aircraft to counter IAF F-35, then SU-57 could be the obvious choice



Philip the Arab said:


> Su-35 was made as a counter to the F-35 and F-22


Non-stealth to counter stealth ?


----------



## Philip the Arab

Signalian said:


> The top air superiority fighter isnt SU-57 ? and if EAF is buying aircraft to counter IAF F-35, then SU-57 could be the obvious choice
> 
> 
> Non-stealth to counter stealth ?


The radar is one of the best in the world and can reportedly detect the F-22 from 100km away.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> The top air superiority fighter isnt SU-57 ? and if EAF is buying aircraft to counter IAF F-35, then SU-57 could be the obvious choice
> 
> 
> Non-stealth to counter stealth ?


SU-57 is coming to EAF too.. as soon as it matures.. it is still going trough developments like the latest plasma engines that was announced a few days ago..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Signalian

Philip the Arab said:


> The radar is one of the best in the world and can reportedly detect the F-22 from 100km away.


Radar is not the only factor in stealth, SU-35 will be detected much before it can detect F-22.

I think Rafale will have smaller RCS than SU35



The SC said:


> SU-57 is coming to EAF too.. as soon as it matures.. it is still going trough developments like the latest plasma engines that was announced a few days ago..


So EAF is waiting for the plasma engines?

What maturity of technology do you mean?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Philip the Arab

Signalian said:


> Radar is not the only factor in stealth, SU-35 will be detected much before it can detect F-22.
> 
> I think Rafale will have smaller RCS than SU35
> 
> 
> So EAF is waiting for the plasma engines?
> 
> What maturity of technology do you mean?


I agree, the Rafale does have a small RCS considering it isn't a full stealth plane. Radar isn't the most important but it is important and can mean a lot in combat and may detect the F-35 before the F-35 detects it.


----------



## Yaseen1

Pakistan should establish close military relationship with egypt and send our pilots to egypt for proper training of their airforce as we have best pilots which have proved their capabilities multiple times in actual war so it will help Paf pilots to have experience of flying different types of jets and in any conflict our pilots will be able to protect Muslim world from any threat from israel and west

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Signalian

Philip the Arab said:


> I agree, the Rafale does have a small RCS considering it isn't a full stealth plane. Radar isn't the most important but it is important and can mean a lot in combat and may detect the F-35 before the F-35 detects it.


I dont want to make it a SU35 Vs F35 thread although i dont agree with you on non stealth to counter stealth part..... so im going to change direction a bit, are you sure SU35 is being procured to face IAF F-35, since Egypt has pacified infront of Israel since 1979.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Philip the Arab

Yaseen1 said:


> Pakistan should establish close military relationship with egypt and send our pilots to egypt for proper training of their airforce as we have best pilots which have proved their capabilities multiple times in actual war so it will help Paf pilots to have experience of flying different types of jets and in any conflict our pilots will be able to protect Muslim world from any threat from israel and west


Pakistan has good pilots but for sure not the best.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The SC

Philip the Arab said:


> The radar is one of the best in the world and can reportedly detect the F-22 from 100km away.


The fact that Egypt has signed an agreement for the supply of Su-35 fighters, “Kommersant” told two top managers of defense industry enterprises. According to them, the relevant agreement, which implies the supply of “over two dozen machines” and aviation aids to them in the amount of about $ 2 billion, entered into force at the end of 2018, and the supplies themselves can begin as early as 2020–2021. The interlocutors of “Kommersant” refused to disclose the cost of the contract, but noted that the contract “guarantees the capacity utilization of the manufacturer of the machine, the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant, for several years ahead.” At the same time, one of the interlocutors of “Kommersant” stressed that the production capabilities of the factory line allow the company to produce about 20 such machines for the needs of Russian aerospace forces without problems in 2019–2020. In the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation and Rosoboronexport (a special exporter of Russian arms), “Kommersant” refrained from commenting on this topic.

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3915483


*Sukhoi Su-35S: Capabilities Out of This World*


*A Generation 4++ Fighter Jet*

The Sukhoi Su-35S carries a 30mm cannon, has 12 hard points and can detect targets at more than 400 kilometers, while its radar can track up to 30 targets simultaneously. The fighter has range in excess of 3,500 kilometers without refueling. The world’s most powerful Fourth-Generation fighter’s standout features include new engines, avionics and radar.

*Engines*

Use of high-thrust engines is a significant differentiator of Sukhoi Su-35 from predecessor Su-27 family jets. The new engines were developed by NPO Saturn, a UEC subsidiary, and are known under the 117S designation.







The new engines are essentially a deep upgrade of production AL-31F engines, with fifth-generation technologies used in the upgrade. The upgrade has increased the engine’s thrust by 16% to 14,500 kgf with afterburners and to 8,800 kgf maximum dry thrust. The engine has a significantly improved expected life (by a factor of 2x – 2.7x) compared to the production AL-31F: from 500 to 1,000 hours between repairs (and to 1,500 hours running time before the first overhaul), with the total expected life increasing from 1,500 to 4,000 hours.

Two engine manufacturers – the Ufa Engine Manufacturing Company (UMPO) and Rybinsk-based NPO Saturn – will manufacture 117S engines in cooperation with each other. The manufacturing partners, NPO Saturn and UMPO, have decided to share equally the scope of work to manufacture 117S engines.

*Avionics and Equipment *

The avionics used in the new jet are a completely new system of onboard electronics. The entire complement of Sukhoi Su-35 electronics is integrated into a single system.

Avionics and other equipment are integrated into a single cohesive system by an information processing and control system, which comprises two digital CPUs, interface and data conversion systems, and a head-up display (HUD) implementing the glass cockpit concept.

The Su-35 has two MFI-35 large color multi-functional LCDs, a multi-functional panel with an integrated display processor, a wide-angle collimated head-up display superimposed over the windscreen and a control panel in the cockpit.






These indicators and a range of other avionics systems of the aircraft were developed by the Ramenskoye Instrument Design Bureau, also a Concern Radioelectronic Technologies (KRET) subsidiary.

KRET engineers also designed a new navigation system for the fighter jet – the BINS-SP-2 strap-down inertial navigation system.

The navigation system can identify the aircraft’s location independently from satellite positioning and without communicating with ground-based systems, at accuracy levels double those offered by earlier versions. BINS-SP-2 has an expected operating life of 10,000 hours, nearly double that of currently available comparable navigation systems.

Incidentally, this state-of-the-art navigation system, created from scratch by KRET subsidiaries, will be also used in the Fifth-Generation advanced front-line aircraft system.

*Airborne IRBIS Radar *

While lacking an APAR, the Su-35 radar system can detect targets at distances up to 400 kilometers, as well as tracking up to aerial targets and engage up to eight of these targets simultaneously.

Sukhkoi Su-35S has owes these capabilities to its new Irbis phased-array radar control system. The system was developed by Tikhomirov Instrument Engineering Research Institute, a KRET subsidiary, and is being manufactured by the Ryazan State Instrument Factory, another subsidiary of KRET.

The state-of-the-art system enables Sukhoi Su-35S to detect quickly and track simultaneously up to four ground targets or up to 30 airborne targets, as well as engaging up to eight airborne targets at the same time. Besides, the radar control system has the friend-or-foe identification capability for aerial and maritime objects, is capable of identifying the class and type of airborne targets and take aerial photos of the ground.

The system can be used in any weather at any time of the day, and remain effective in the face of interference, either natural or organized by the enemy electronic warfare systems.

An oscillator with peak power output of 20 kW used in the passive phased array radar makes Irbis the most powerful radar control system in the world.

This puts the Sukhoi Su-35S radar system on par with the best state-of-the-art international designs, and ahead for most US and European active and passive phased array radars.

https://rostec.ru/news/4514936/

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Philip the Arab

Signalian said:


> I dont want to make it a SU35 Vs F35 thread although i dont agree with you on non stealth to counter stealth part..... so im going to change direction a bit, are you sure SU35 is being procured to face IAF F-35, since Egypt has pacified infront of Israel since 1979.


Well, its best to be prepared always even if Egypt and Israel are at relative peace for now. I think Egypt should procure more SHOAD and HIMAD SAM systems with less of a focus on aerial war but the Su-35 is more capable against Israeli F-35s, F-15s, and F-16s than say Egyptian F-16s. I mean what other reason can you think of for Egypt buying the Su-35?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

Yaseen1 said:


> Pakistan should establish close military relationship with egypt and send our pilots to egypt for proper training of their airforce as we have best pilots which have proved their capabilities multiple times in actual war so it will help Paf pilots to have experience of flying different types of jets and in any conflict our pilots will be able to protect Muslim world from any threat from israel and west


PAF can enact DACT with EAF Rafale



Philip the Arab said:


> I mean what other reason can you think of for Egypt buying the Su-35?


I really don't see an enemy of Egypt with-in its neighbors and I don't think Egypt as an enemy of Israel (and vice versa) after 1979.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> Radar is not the only factor in stealth, SU-35 will be detected much before it can detect F-22.
> 
> I think Rafale will have smaller RCS than SU35
> 
> 
> So EAF is waiting for the plasma engines?
> 
> What maturity of technology do you mean?


No choice but to have the full stealth aircraft.. these are the latest tests the Russians are conducting, because the detection of engines was a big issue in Syria test flights.. So Egypt won't procure the SU-57 before it is full stealth/matured..this is supposed to be a 5thG fighter..


Su-57 fighter will receive a fifth-generation plasma engine

The fifth-generation Russian fighter Su-57 will receive a plasma engine with reduced radar visibility.

The chief designer of the Lyulka Design Bureau named after Yulia Yevgeny Marchukov told journalists that the newest front-line fighter in Russia, the Su-57, will be equipped with a plasma engine, the Tsargrad TV channel reports.

This is a fifth-generation engine, codenamed "Product 30", which was created taking into account domestic and foreign experience. According to the designer, it will be installed on the aircraft by 2020. New power plants will be more powerful and cheaper than the previous ones. Motor traction is 10 times its own weight.

According to Marchukov, the engine created in the Russian Federation will be the answer for critics of the West who had previously found the Achilles heel of the Su-57. Foreign military analysts noted the high radar visibility of the fighter due to the thermal efficiency of the engine. "Product 30" will be assembled in a fundamentally different way. The unit will integrate a plasma ignition and thrust vector control system. The upgraded nozzles will ensure the ignition of the plasma arc simultaneously with the supply of kerosene. This will help to avoid "flare" - the emission of a pillar of fire from the nozzle due to excess fuel in the combustion chamber. Thus, the visibility of the fighter in the infrared and radio wave range is noticeably reduced.

Another important innovation of "Product 30" is the variable degree of bypass. The fighter engine will be able to adapt to any flight conditions only by “orders” of the pilot. Managing the plane will be several times easier. It is important that this feature will give the Su-57 the possibility of cruising supersonic movement.

"PolitEkspert" previously reported that the US is developing an adaptive "turbo heart" for the F-35 - the new XA100 engine for the fighter, which is positioned as a competitor to the Su-57. The development of "Product 30" will be the answer to the American opponent.


https://politexpert.net/145286-istr...tel-pyatogo-pokoleniya?utm_source=warfiles.ru

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kompromat

Egypt should sell some of its decapitated F-16s to Pakistan which lack AMRAAMS. Use that money to purchase unrestricted, fully capable aircraft like Su-35 or Rafale.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The SC

Horus said:


> Egypt should sell some of its decapitated F-16s to Pakistan which lack AMRAAMS. Use that money to purchase unrestricted, fully capable aircraft like Su-35 or Rafale.


The problem is that the US will have a say in it..if that can be overcome..than it will be feasible..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sabretooth

Egypt has turned its airforce into a mixed pickle of the modern fighter jets.


----------



## Kompromat

The SC said:


> The problem is that the US will have a say in it..if that can be overcome..than it will be feasible..



US can be dealt with through KSA.


----------



## Signalian

Horus said:


> US can be dealt with through KSA.


If such was possible, then the 8 F-16 Block 52+ would have been in PAF now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kompromat

Signalian said:


> If such was possible, then the 8 F-16 Block 52+ would have been in PAF now.




You can still get em if you got cash.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

Horus said:


> You can still get em if you got cash.


Had the cash for more second hand RJAF F-16's. guess what happened?


----------



## The SC

Horus said:


> US can be dealt with through KSA.


KSA will try for sure.. that is if Egypt and Pakistan have a will to sell /procure the F-16s first..



Philip the Arab said:


> This is a good purchase for Egypt if they can get the top of the line radar. The radar that Russia on their SU-35s uses can easily detect the F-35 much farther than any plane that Egypt uses. You see my input is they bought this as a counter to the F-35s Israel is operating and rightly so. I honestly think this is *fake news*, if it can be confirmed by a reliable source I will trust it.
> Stop worrying about a confrontation between Egypt and Turkey because it isn't going to happen. NATO will surely mediate the confrontation before it happens.


This is now confirmed by many Russian reliable media agencies:

https://www.interfax.ru/amp/654588?...jZSp9R77NngQmmKr-XboNRNGB-IaiQ83GeoO7MIwXFIgo


----------



## IbnAbdullah

Salaam

Great news. I hope the Muslim world realises that internal bickering will not help it. The last two decades have shown what weakness can result in.

Egypt has a lot of potential and I hope they start working towards realising that. 

I hope some day we will see Iraq back on its feet and moving fast towards prosperity. Same with Afghanistan and Syria and other Muslim countries.

The Egyptian military hopefully understands that just because they have peace now does not mean they will forever have peace. Weakness invites others to attack you.


....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The SC

IbnAbdullah said:


> Salaam
> 
> Great news. I hope the Muslim world realises that internal bickering will not help it. The last two decades have shown what weakness can result in.
> 
> Egypt has a lot of potential and I hope they start working towards realising that.
> 
> I hope some day we will see Iraq back on its feet and moving fast towards prosperity. Same with Afghanistan and Syria and other Muslim countries.
> 
> The Egyptian military hopefully understands that just because they have peace now does not mean they will forever have peace. Weakness invites others to attack you.
> 
> 
> ....


It is easy to understand.. "If you want peace, prepare for war" ..and since Egypt has a lot of assets to protect, it saw a need to modernise its armed forces and that is what it is doing..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zhukov

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Wtf is Egypt doing with all these different types of equipment?!


buying Influence from every major power as a security token. All dictatorships do that.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

Horus said:


> Egypt should sell some of its decapitated F-16s to Pakistan which lack AMRAAMS. Use that money to purchase unrestricted, fully capable aircraft like Su-35 or Rafale.


they use block 40 and 50 ...... we use blk-52+ and blk-15 MLU


----------



## Amun

Great news....
Now Egypt during the last 5 years MAIN deals:
24 SU 35
24 Rafales
50 MIGs
46 KA-52
12 Apaches
2 C-130 J
~ 20 Wing Loong 1&2
S-300 VM
IRIS-T MR Air Defense system
125 Abrams M1A1
500 T-90
4 Gowind Corvettes
1 Fremm Frigate
1 MiKO Frigate
2 Mistrals LHD
4 Type 209 1400 MOD Submarines

Also during the last 5 years Egypt revealed Gas & Oil discoveries that worth more than 500 Billions USD....and still many discoveries to go in The medetrenian and the Red Sea.
Also Countries like Libya , Syria and Iraq which are an ordinary supporters of Egypt are now struggling.....
Also the control of Suez Canal....(the most important/Fastest/Safest) water way between Europe and Asia.

That’s why Egypt needs to protect itself against any possible threats.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## The SC

Amun said:


> Great news....
> Now Egypt during the last 5 years MAIN deals:
> 24 SU 35
> 24 Rafales
> 50 MIGs
> 46 KA-52
> 12 Apaches
> 2 C-130 J
> ~ 20 Wing Loong 1&2
> S-300 VM
> IRIS-T MR Air Defense system
> 125 Abrams M1A1
> 500 T-90
> 4 Gowind Corvettes
> 1 Fremm Frigate
> 1 MiKO Frigate
> 2 Mistrals LHD
> 4 Type 209 1400 MOD Submarines
> 
> Also during the last 5 years Egypt revealed Gas & Oil discoveries that worth more than 500 Billions USD....and still many discoveries to go in The medetrenian and the Red Sea.
> Also Countries like Libya , Syria and Iraq which are an ordinary supporters of Egypt are now struggling.....
> Also the control of Suez Canal....(the most important/Fastest/Safest) water way between Europe and Asia.
> 
> That’s why Egypt needs to protect itself against any possible threats.







There is also the Ka-_52K_ Katran





Russia has won the tender for supplies of Ka-52K helicopters to Egypt for Mistral helicopter carriers, the head of Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation said Monday.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201706191054761402-russia-ka52k-egype-supplies/
https://sputniknews.com/military/201706191054761402-russia-ka52k-egype-supplies/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Philip the Arab

The SC said:


> KSA will try for sure.. that is if Egypt and Pakistan have a will to sell /procure the F-16s first..
> 
> 
> This is now confirmed by many Russian reliable media agencies:
> 
> https://www.interfax.ru/amp/654588?...jZSp9R77NngQmmKr-XboNRNGB-IaiQ83GeoO7MIwXFIgo


Yes but they are Russian, Don't you think other news sites would cover it? I haven't found any Western or any non-Russian sites covering them.


----------



## Gomig-21

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Wtf is Egypt doing with all these different types of equipment?!



Modernizing it's fleet and not relying on a single or two suppliers that have a lot of say and restrict the potency of the equipment. This is a sound strategy because it's the only available one that gives the Egyptian military the power it needs to be strong and capable of defending its land. Simple.



Yaseen1 said:


> Pakistan should establish close military relationship with egypt and send our pilots to egypt for proper training of their airforce as we have best pilots which have proved their capabilities multiple times in actual war so it will help Paf pilots to have experience of flying different types of jets and in any conflict our pilots will be able to protect Muslim world from any threat from israel and west



Good idea and we've been advocating such a thing for a while now.



Horus said:


> Egypt should sell some of its decapitated F-16s to Pakistan which lack AMRAAMS. Use that money to purchase unrestricted, fully capable aircraft like Su-35 or Rafale.



Why would we do that? Despite our F-16's being neutered by the lack of AMRAAMs, they still serve a very important role and will remain in the EAF as long as their live sustainability is maintained.



HRK said:


> they use block 40 and 50 ...... we use blk-52+ and blk-15 MLU



We use Block 32's (upgraded to block 40 standard), block 40 and Block 52, not 50. Turkey has the block 50.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

Gomig-21 said:


> Modernizing it's fleet and not relying on a single or two suppliers that have a lot of say and restrict the potency of the equipment. This is a sound strategy because it's the only available one that gives the Egyptian military the power it needs to be strong and capable of defending its land. Simple.
> 
> 
> 
> We couldn't care less about Turkey. They don't matter to us especially after Erdogan pulled that idiotic stunt with Sisi and created bad blood between our two countries. So they can mind their own business and we'll certainly do the same since they would add nothing to our needs. They leader needs a few lessons on diplomacy before we even speak to him.
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing, and it's quite obviously glaring.
> 
> 
> 
> Good idea and we've been advocating such a thing for a while now, except the hate from Pakistan towards Egypt needs to be solved first. We have no idea why Pakistan has a certain disdain towards Egypt stemming back quite a while. And it can't be denied, just look at all the anti-Egyptian comments here on this board (even just on this thread) from Pakistani members towards Egypt. We, like anyone else, once we see someone show disrespect and/or hatred or any form of negativity towards us, we have no problem severing any relationship and moving on. Although we have always been very peaceful people and attempt to fix such problems from the onset. But when these problems keep rearing their ugly heads and there is no improvement but only setbacks, then it's time to move on. So unfortunately I don't see anything of the sort happening anytime soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would we do that? Despite our F-16's being neutered by the lack of AMRAAMs, they still serve a very important role and will remain in the EAF as long as their live sustainability is maintained.
> 
> 
> 
> We use Block 32's (upgraded to block 40 standard), block 40 and Block 52, not 50. Turkey has the block 50.


The only problem we see with the Egyptian strategy is having too many eggs and too many baskets, goodluck when the funds are tight.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Philip the Arab

Amun said:


> Great news....
> Now Egypt during the last 5 years MAIN deals:
> 24 SU 35
> 24 Rafales
> 50 MIGs
> 46 KA-52
> 12 Apaches
> 2 C-130 J
> ~ 20 Wing Loong 1&2
> S-300 VM
> IRIS-T MR Air Defense system
> 125 Abrams M1A1
> 500 T-90
> 4 Gowind Corvettes
> 1 Fremm Frigate
> 1 MiKO Frigate
> 2 Mistrals LHD
> 4 Type 209 1400 MOD Submarines
> 
> Also during the last 5 years Egypt revealed Gas & Oil discoveries that worth more than 500 Billions USD....and still many discoveries to go in The medetrenian and the Red Sea.
> Also Countries like Libya , Syria and Iraq which are an ordinary supporters of Egypt are now struggling.....
> Also the control of Suez Canal....(the most important/Fastest/Safest) water way between Europe and Asia.
> 
> That’s why Egypt needs to protect itself against any possible threats.


In my opinion, Egypt needs more air defense assets. Russian systems are a good idea like the Pantsir, but South Africa or Western European countries could be looked at. Without being able to protect assets they are useless and will be destroyed quickly.


----------



## Philip the Arab

Gomig-21 said:


> Define "relevant." Relevant to Pakistan? Relevant to the ME? Relevant in what specific areas, economy, military, diplomacy? What's an important relevance to Pakistan?


This is off topic but, do Jordan and Egypt have good defense relations? I know they can benefit from each other a whole lot but I see nothing happening between the two.


----------



## MaRv



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

I don't think this is wise decision when you are already operating Rafale & F16s. It will be nightmare for Egypt airforce for maintenance in different platform.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Super Falcon

Riz said:


> F-16s, Rafaels, & now SU-35s...who they going to conquer????? Ohh maybe Turkey..


And Mig 35 too

Pak should atleast learn something multirole jet need combination of air superiority to perform better


----------



## Amun

Peaceful Civilian said:


> I don't think this is wise decision when you are already operating Rafale & F16s. It will be nightmare for Egypt airforce for maintenance in different platform.



May be....but you have to consider that Egypt was doing well for decades , operating F-16, Mirages,F-7,MIGs and Phantoms.....this is the best way to counteract any possible sanctions and political pressure from any party.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Philip the Arab said:


> They don't need the manpower. They have the strongest air force, navy, and best land equipment among the Arab states. The U.S. wants them to lead it and so do most of the allies of the Arab states including the Europeans.


Additionally, the Arab Spring and the election of the Muslim Brotherhood to power illustrated that there is a strong undercurrent in favor of regime change in Egypt. The Egyptian military may be able to suppress that desire for regime change, but the variable still exists which makes Egypt relatively less 'stable' compared to Saudi Arabia.

There is a continuity in Saudi Arabia, especially if the transfer of power to a young MBS goes as planned, that Egypt can't quite match.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Amun

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Additionally, the Arab Spring and the election of the Muslim Brotherhood to power illustrated that there is a strong undercurrent in favor of regime change in Egypt. The Egyptian military may be able to suppress that desire for regime change, but the variable still exists which makes Egypt relatively less 'stable' compared to Saudi Arabia.
> 
> There is a continuity in Saudi Arabia, especially if the transfer of power to a young MBS goes as planned, that Egypt can't quite match.



You have to deep dive in reading and understanding political,historical and social aspects of both Saudi and Egyptians....you will change your opinions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Amun said:


> Same thing is here.....Ordinary Egyptians about 10-15 years ago thought that Pakistan was a friendly nation ...... but things started to change now .
> Due to the perception about Pakistan in the Global Media and the political relations that doesn’t go any where....
> And for me this was my first time in this PDF to contact Pakistanis and saw how much they hate us....individually or following the Turks.


Pakistanis hate Egypt/Egyptians? I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Egypt rarely, if ever, comes into everyday discourse in Pakistan.

Yes, Pakistan and Pakistanis have a strong bond with Turkey, historically and because of significant defence cooperation, so perhaps on military/defence boards you'll see Pakistanis take the side of Turkey when it comes to Turkish-Egyptian relations, but outside of that there's really not that much interest in Egypt (good or bad) in Pakistan.



Amun said:


> You have to deep dive in reading and understanding political,historical and social aspects of both Saudi and Egyptians....you will change your opinions.


If you can point to such material that I can read I'd appreciate it.

But even if we disagree on regime stability in Egypt vs Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia has a certain global clout because of the sheer amount of money it can use as leverage that Egypt cannot match.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Amun

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Pakistanis hate Egypt/Egyptians? I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Egypt rarely, if ever, comes into everyday discourse in Pakistan.
> 
> Yes, Pakistan and Pakistanis have a strong bond with Turkey, historically and because of significant defence cooperation, so perhaps on military/defence boards you'll see Pakistanis take the side of Turkey when it comes to Turkish-Egyptian relations, but outside of that there's really not that much interest in Egypt (good or bad) in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> If you can point to such material that I can read I'd appreciate it.
> 
> But even if we disagree on regime stability in Egypt vs Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia has a certain global clout because of the sheer amount of money it can use as leverage that Egypt cannot match.



From what I’m seeing here ,in this very forum and thread....I’m feeling hate from many Pakistanis...feeling like Egypt is the country that occupying Kashmir 

As for Saudi Arabia.....we are not opponent....we complement each other.....in this world now a days Clustering and gathering in larger groups is the right way to survive for medium sized countries like us in ME ,Africa and Asia, otherwise, superpowers will eat you alive.


As for materials you want...
You can start from the beginning of Egypt/humanity by reading the book of James Henry Breasted (dawn of conscience) 1933 so you can know more about the demographics of Egyptians that are far more homogeneous than many other countries.....and I will prepare some other materials for you to Read.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Amun said:


> From what I’m seeing here ,in this very forum and thread....I’m feeling hate from many Pakistanis...feeling like Egypt is the country that occupying Kashmir


Pakistani's are a passionate and emotional people. If you ever get a chance to read our domestic political discussions, especially around the elections, you'd think that the opposing political parties were occupying Kashmir or hand in glove with the Indians in breaking up Pakistan. Like I said, don't take the comments of a few people on a defence board as representative of all Pakistanis.



Riz said:


> We know Egyptian force's and there training level ... Isrealis dont have any issue if USA would give Egypt 500+ F-22 raptors... They are not at par with turkey in any form of military


No, you don't really know that (regarding current Egyptian training levels and competence). Please refrain from making such broad derogatory comments about other nations. What does this comment offer, other than to insult Egyptians and give them a very negative view of Pakistanis? Stick to the thread topic please. 

I'll be deleting this and similar comments on the thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Sinnerman108

Gomig-21 said:


> Define "relevant." Relevant to Pakistan? Relevant to the ME? Relevant in what specific areas, economy, military, diplomacy? What's an important relevance to Pakistan?



Ignore that, 
but help me understand .. what is the logic behind this platform purchase decision if true ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

Philip the Arab said:


> Yes but they are Russian, Don't you think other news sites would cover it? I haven't found any Western or any non-Russian sites covering them.


*Russia has already begun production of multi-purpose fighters Su-35 under a contract for Egypt 

https://www.interfax.ru/amp/654603?...oq-POm2nh6pARfGEftg1sZBOr1n1sJMmWoaO0EW2CIT4U*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mithridates

Signalian said:


> The top air superiority fighter isnt SU-57 ? and if EAF is buying aircraft to counter IAF F-35, then SU-57 could be the obvious choice
> 
> 
> Non-stealth to counter stealth ?


su-35 radar has ability to detect a target with 0.01sqm of RCS as far as 90km.


----------



## The SC

Sinnerman108 said:


> Ignore that,
> but help me understand .. what is the logic behind this platform purchase decision if true ?


Just understand that the SU-35 with the Mig-29M/35 is what the F-15 is to the F-16 in general..a complete aerial combat system..



Great Janjua said:


> everything above. It's just not relevant


Try to find some material about this combination for Pakistani Missiles tech..Egypt-NK-Pakistan..maybe you'll know how relevant Egypt was/is to the ones who know this in Pakistan..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ceylal

Beast said:


> Maybe Saudi wants Egypt to be the center of their Arabs military league due to Egypt larger manpower.


That is the role given to Egypt by the Sauds..A too big role that is above Egypt capabilities..



Philip the Arab said:


> No, Saudi Arabia definitely wants to lead the "league". Maybe making Egypt their right hand man would work but trust me, Saudi Arabia wants to lead the Arab world and that's final.


KSA is pissing against the wind, in that matter..



The SC said:


> SU-35 was coming as a complement to the Mig-35.. it was announced by the official Egyptian TV channel.. the number was 29.. so this might be the first batch..


It is just another kettle in the hands of Egyptians..



Philip the Arab said:


> Which radar do you think they will receive? I thought the Su-35 was made as a counter to the F-35 and F-22 but I could be wrong and without the Russian radar the capabilities will be severely reduced.


If Israel, the main constable of the area, doesn't See any problem for Egypt to acquire them, that means they will be delivered severely impaired like everything sold to the Egyptian military..



Yaseen1 said:


> Pakistan should establish close military relationship with egypt and send our pilots to egypt for proper training of their airforce as we have best pilots which have proved their capabilities multiple times in actual war so it will help Paf pilots to have experience of flying different types of jets and in any conflict our pilots will be able to protect Muslim world from any threat from israel and west


That will be the end of Pakistan army as fighting force...


----------



## Philip the Arab

Ceylal said:


> That is the role given to Egypt by the Sauds..A too big role that is above Egypt capabilities..
> 
> 
> KSA is pissing against the wind, in that matter..
> 
> 
> It is just another kettle in the hands of Egyptians..
> 
> 
> If Israel, the main constable of the area, doesn't See any problem for Egypt to acquire them, that means they will be delivered severely impaired like everything sold to the Egyptian military..
> 
> 
> That will be the end of Pakistan army as fighting force...


Why would Israel have a sway over Russia or anyone else when it comes to downgraded exports? They have no duty to protect Israel as the U.S. does.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ceylal

Philip the Arab said:


> Why would Israel have a sway over Russia or anyone else when it comes to downgraded exports? They have no duty to protect Israel as the U.S. does.


Israel dictates what can be gotten as military equipment in the area, especially for the one they have been at war with..Egypt is the main foe , even in peace, to Israel and Israel will do everything to make the Egyptian threat a minimum to her...Russian are no different from the the US or European..all of them march to the Israeli drum..


----------



## BATMAN

Horus said:


> US can be dealt with through KSA.



That can be expensive for Pakistan, unless MBS is generous and agree to pay the salaries of expensive Saudi liaisons.



Signalian said:


> Had the cash for more second hand RJAF F-16's. guess what happened?



All new machines can be circumvented at will. PAF may only go for new machines, if US get their man at top of PAF.
People who know technology, knows the possibilities. Only option left for buyers is blind trust and in this case it's US.
There are sensors and processors and AI. Machine decide itself, whom to kill and whom not.
Further more those parameters can be updated, as well remotely.


----------



## Philip the Arab

Ceylal said:


> Israel dictates what can be gotten as military equipment in the area, especially for the one they have been at war with..Egypt is the main foe , even in peace, to Israel and Israel will do everything to make the Egyptian threat a minimum to her...Russian are no different from the the US or European..all of them march to the Israeli drum..


Well China doesn't give a crap about who they sell to for sure. They will be the same specs that China uses.


----------



## BATMAN

Amun said:


> As for Saudi Arabia.....we are not opponent....we complement each other.....in this world now a days Clustering and gathering in larger groups is the right way to survive for medium sized countries like us in ME ,Africa and Asia, otherwise, superpowers will eat you alive.


Yes Egypt is not Saudi foe, but it's one of the wish list of major section of our society.
They are dreaming such stuff from long time... let them dream and just listen to their disappointments from past many decades.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Horus said:


> Egypt should sell some of its decapitated F-16s to Pakistan which lack AMRAAMS. Use that money to purchase unrestricted, fully capable aircraft like Su-35 or Rafale.



And the US would approve such a sale?
Not sure that Egypt has total freedom here.


----------



## Mentee

MaRv said:


>



These MiGs are perhaps the only Russian equipment I've seen so far that don't look dirty or Rusty.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BATMAN

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And the US would approve such a sale?
> Not sure that Egypt has total freedom here.


As far i can guess, nor would Egypt sell those, neither Pakistan would buy them. US permission always depend on geopolitical situation of the region, particularly that of Afghanistan.



Mentee said:


> These MiGs are perhaps the only Russian equipment I've seen so far that don't look dirty or Rusty.


Unless India Su were not shot dead, we had plenty of fanboys of Su-MKI on defence.pk
Now is U turn time!


----------



## Mentee

BATMAN said:


> Unless India Su were not shot dead, we had plenty of fanboys of Su-MKI on defence.pk
> Now is U turn time!


Su 30 is class apart. Indians cant exploit them doesn't mean they bad


----------



## BATMAN

Mentee said:


> Su 30 is class apart. Indians cant exploit them doesn't mean they bad



You failed the scheme.


----------



## Signalian

Mithridates said:


> su-35 radar has ability to detect a target with 0.01sqm of RCS as far as 90km.


On paper specs yes, but like i said before, radar is not the only factor counted in taking on a stealth jet


----------



## Mentee

BATMAN said:


> You failed the scheme.


I don't plot no more

Guys what the heck is wrong with you foks? It's Egyptian money and Egyptian decision, Just get over it.


----------



## Keysersoze

Amun said:


> Great news....
> Now Egypt during the last 5 years MAIN deals:
> 24 SU 35
> 24 Rafales
> 50 MIGs
> 46 KA-52
> 12 Apaches
> 2 C-130 J
> ~ 20 Wing Loong 1&2
> S-300 VM
> IRIS-T MR Air Defense system
> 125 Abrams M1A1
> 500 T-90
> 4 Gowind Corvettes
> 1 Fremm Frigate
> 1 MiKO Frigate
> 2 Mistrals LHD
> 4 Type 209 1400 MOD Submarines
> 
> Also during the last 5 years Egypt revealed Gas & Oil discoveries that worth more than 500 Billions USD....and still many discoveries to go in The medetrenian and the Red Sea.
> Also Countries like Libya , Syria and Iraq which are an ordinary supporters of Egypt are now struggling.....
> Also the control of Suez Canal....(the most important/Fastest/Safest) water way between Europe and Asia.
> 
> That’s why Egypt needs to protect itself against any possible threats.


Looking at those purchases all I can think is what a logistical nightmare...



Philip the Arab said:


> They don't need the manpower. They have the strongest air force, navy, and best land equipment among the Arab states. The U.S. wants them to lead it and so do most of the allies of the Arab states including the Europeans.


They lack the will and frankly ability. Some of the laziest people around.


----------



## Philip the Arab

Keysersoze said:


> Looking at those purchases all I can think is what a logistical nightmare...
> 
> 
> They lack the will and frankly ability. Some of the laziest people around.


@The SC can prove you wrong.


----------



## Keysersoze

Philip the Arab said:


> @The SC can prove you wrong.


I doubt it. Personal experience lol


----------



## El Sidd

if our defence Minister was not a charsi. they would have taken Jf17.


----------



## HttpError

Retired Troll said:


> if our defence Minister was not a charsi. they would have taken Jf17.



Even if we had offered them JF-17 for free, they wouldn't have taken it. Sometimes prestige issues overtake your rational decisions.


----------



## BATMAN

Retired Troll said:


> if our defence Minister was not a charsi. they would have taken Jf17.



When foreign office screw up, defense minister will fail to sell gold.


----------



## El Sidd

HttpError said:


> Even if we had offered them JF-17 for free, they wouldn't have taken it. Sometimes prestige issues overtake your rational decisions.



depends how one pitches it. 

Egyptians are not bad people. They are much like us. Good amongst them good. bad amongst them pure evil.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## El Sidd

BATMAN said:


> When foreign office screw up, defense minister will fail to sell gold.



if there was gold, they have already sold it man.


----------



## BATMAN

Mentee said:


> It's Egyptian money and Egyptian decision



it's Pakistani foreign office, who's is playing it all wrong. 
Our FO must learn, interfering in internal affairs of middle eastern states is a diplomatic suicide, i doubt they do it deliberately for sake of Iran.



Keysersoze said:


> Looking at those purchases all I can think is what a logistical nightmare...


Indeed and interesting, let's see how far they go.


----------



## Abdelrahman

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Wtf is Egypt doing with all these different types of equipment?!



It's a national interest and goal of Egypt to diversify its sources of weapons in order to avoid any kind of pressure from any supplier during any probable confrontation in future in which you may need a lot of ammunition and spare parts. Despite being considered as an US-ally, Egypt can't fully depend on them or on any other supplier and their political interests.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

Abdelrahman said:


> It's a national interest and goal of Egypt to diversify its sources of weapons in order to avoid any kind of pressure from any supplier during any probable confrontation in future in which you may need a lot of ammunition and spare parts. Despite being considered as an US-ally, Egypt can't fully depend on them or on any other supplier and their political interests.


That requires you to buy a whole lot of everything, in a whole lot of numbers. Common sense says it's not the best way to go. But whatever.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Abdelrahman

Signalian said:


> PAF can enact DACT with EAF Rafale
> 
> 
> I really don't see an enemy of Egypt with-in its neighbors and I don't think Egypt as an enemy of Israel (and vice versa) after 1979.



Peace is only protected by force and nothing is guaranteed forever. You must be always prepared as if the war is starting on the next day.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

BATMAN said:


> it's Pakistani foreign office, who's is playing it all wrong.
> Our FO must learn, interfering in internal affairs of middle eastern states is a diplomatic suicide, i doubt they do it deliberately for sake of Iran.
> 
> 
> Indeed and interesting, let's see how far they go.


We should offer them jf-17, al-khalid and etc. If they are on a shoppingspree, we shouldn't judge but make profit.


----------



## The SC

Philip the Arab said:


> @The SC can prove you wrong.


He is just teasing or ignoring the facts that Egypt has been operating Eastern and Western platforms in all its Military branches for at least 50 years.. with competent manpower on each and every system.. The know-how is huge!
You never hear Egypt complaining about it.. only others do..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BATMAN

Pakhtoon yum said:


> We should offer them jf-17, al-khalid and etc. If they are on a shoppingspree, we shouldn't judge but make profit.



Go ahead.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Abdelrahman

Pakhtoon yum said:


> That requires you to buy a whole lot of everything, in a whole lot of numbers. Common sense says it's not the best way to go. But whatever.



Do as much as you can and in gradual steps. Wa a'iddu lahum mastata'tum

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

BATMAN said:


> Go ahead.


Nah man, imma leave that to you, ur flight is booked. Practice ur marketing skills cause PAC sucks at theirs.



Abdelrahman said:


> Do as much as you can and in gradual steps. Wa a'iddu lahum mastata'tum


I recommend transfer of technology and joint ventures....just saying

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DavidSling

Abdelrahman said:


> Peace is only protected by force and nothing is guaranteed forever. You must be always prepared as if the war is starting on the next day.


Peace isn't protected by force but by the power of the people.
Objectively, while the peace with Egypt is stable, it's mostly a peace between goverments rather than peace between people.
Therefore, one of the reasons Egypt procure large quantity of equipment is to signal strength and deterrence.
Other reasons are more common ones :
Signal strength and stability in an unstable middle east.
Lure tourists and investors.
Improving Egypt's position on middle eastern issues
and more.


----------



## DavidSling

Abdelrahman said:


> It's a national interest and goal of Egypt to diversify its sources of weapons in order to avoid any kind of pressure from any supplier during any probable confrontation in future in which you may need a lot of ammunition and spare parts. Despite being considered as an US-ally, Egypt can't fully depend on them or on any other supplier and their political interests.


Egypt should improve it's economy and local industry to soften the damage of any such action on it's economy or/and it's military

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

Abdelrahman said:


> Peace is only protected by force and nothing is guaranteed forever. You must be always prepared as if the war is starting on the next day.


I agree but have you noticed the trend of acquiring weapons from different suppliers ? Secondly, Egypt's economy has been stronger than Pakistan's, and an enemy (Israel) same as Pakistan's, but the enemy was turned into a friend (1979), and the enemy possesses nuclear weapons, so as per your statement, has Egypt acquired nuclear weapons to be prepared for war the next day since nothing is guaranteed? If yes, excellent, if not , why not ?


----------



## The SC

Pakhtoon yum said:


> That requires you to buy a whole lot of everything, in a whole lot of numbers. Common sense says it's not the best way to go. But whatever.


Common sense is when you have the capability to operate and maintain both Eastern and Western Systems without any difficulty.. like Egypt does..India is a bad example I might agree.. but Egypt has been a vrery good example for safety and integration of many different systems..But hey I can understand your confusion.. it was intended for Egyptian adversaries and it works well apparently even on friends..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

The SC said:


> Common sense is when you have the capability to operate and maintain both Eastern and Western Systems without any difficulty.. like Egypt does..India is a bad example I might agree.. but Egypt has been a vrery good example for safety and integration of many different systems..But hey I can understand your confusion.. it was intended for Egyptian adversaries and it works well apparently even on friends..


Not the point I was trying to make, but fair I guess. Read my other post


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> I agree but have you noticed the trend of acquiring weapons from different suppliers ? Secondly, Egypt's economy has been stronger than Pakistan's, and an enemy (Israel) same as Pakistan's, but the enemy was turned into a friend (1979), and the enemy possesses nuclear weapons, so as per your statement, has Egypt acquired nuclear weapons to be prepared for war the next day since nothing is guaranteed? If yes, excellent, if not , why not ?


Most recent presidents of Egypt declared in interviews that they have the right deterrents against the Usraeli nukes..but they won't expand on that.. Just leave it at that..


----------



## Philip the Arab

He did a while ago. Just check the forum replies from a page or two ago. I messed up the quote though my bad.


----------



## Abdelrahman

HttpError said:


> Even if we had offered them JF-17 for free, they wouldn't have taken it. Sometimes prestige issues overtake your rational decisions.



We have no problem to benefit from any top-notch technology. We only care about our strength not our prestige and only try to get the best as we can. Your officials should take the advantage of what happened recently with India to make a global marketing strategy for the JF-17.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Philip the Arab

Abdelrahman said:


> We have no problem to benefit from any top-notch technology. We only care about our strength not our prestige and only try to get the best as we can. Your officials should take the advantage of what happened recently with India to make a global marketing strategy for the JF-17.


I have never seen you before on this forum. Will you be more active on the forum or is this just because of the Su-35 deal?


----------



## The SC

Pakhtoon yum said:


> We should offer them jf-17, al-khalid and etc. If they are on a shoppingspree, we shouldn't judge but make profit.


First things first.. Egypt can not counter regional powers with The Al Khalid tanks and the JF-17.. they need the best they can get.. because the potential opponents are armed to the teeth and with the most advanced and capable systems out there.. hope you understand now..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hussain0216

Dumb acquisitions!!! 

They on paper seem good

But in reality dum, real dum


----------



## HttpError

Abdelrahman said:


> We have no problem to benefit from any top-notch technology. We only care about our strength not our prestige and only try to get the best as we can. Your officials should take the advantage of what happened recently with India to make a global marketing strategy for the JF-17.



I am not talking about any specific group, I am talking about things in general. As you may have noticed, everyone considers western technology to be top-notch. Although this may be true in most cases, this is not always the case. So yeah, perception does matter and as you said, Pakistan should try to enhance its reputation by using the recent events with India to its own advantage.


----------



## Ceylal

Philip the Arab said:


> Well China doesn't give a crap about who they sell to for sure. They will be the same specs that China uses.


Even Chinese have their own rules and Israel is one of their suppliers of the new technologies..



Retired Troll said:


> if there was gold, they have already sold it man.


If it was gold, the Chinese would have kept it..


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Stick to the topic please. This thread isn’t a discussion on whether the Arab militaries are competent or not and not a discussion on whether the Pakistanis or Arabs like each other, care about each other or talk about each other.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Amun

MMM-E said:


> which money ?
> the EU gave only $1,8 billion for Syrian refugees in Turkey , nothing else
> on the other hand Turkey spent $35+ billion for over 3,5 million of Syrian refugees in Turkey
> and We Turks always helped muslims in history , millions of Albanians,Bosnians,Circassians ,Arabs,Kurds,etc came to Anatolia in the last 120 years to protect themselves being slaughtered by Christians and others
> 
> ,, because of they are our brothers and sisters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they lives like animals in Egypt
> 
> on the other hand Syrian refugees lives like human in Turkey , free education , free health care also Turkish government gives money to Syrian refugees for food , clothing, shelter and firewood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egyptian Army can not accomplish fighting against ISIS in Sinai
> all those weapons to protect puppet dictators against Egyptian People and against Turkey for American-Israeli interests
> 
> our ancestors reached Egypt before Anadol
> 
> -- The Tulunids were a dynasty of Turkic origin and were the first independent dynasty to rule Egypt as well as much of Syria in 868
> -- also Turkic Burid and Zengid dynasties ruled Syria between 1100 and 1250
> -- also Turkic Bahri dynasty ruled Egypt between 1250 and 1389 ( the Mamluk Sultanate was dominated by the Kipchak Turkic Bahri dynasty )
> -- also after 1517 Ottoman Empire ruled all Middle East including Egypt for 400 years



First of all....Our Syrian,Iraqi,Libyan,Sudanian brothers are not animals.....every human being is welcomed in Egypt...
You can see Syrians working,having fun and marrying in Egypt....ISIS in Sinai nearly removed...only some of them still coming from Syria via Turkey but we will eradicate them all....unlike your PKK you can’t even get into their territories.

BTW are you still occupying lands from your Muslim neighbors (Syria and Iraq)...?!

Or you still supplying terrorists in Libya with weapons....!?
Or TV Chanels that supports ISIS in Sinai still working..?!

As for History.....I’m taking about 5000 Years ago.....and you say 1000 year ago.
I’m talking about protecting our land and you are talking about invading Egypt....
I’m talking about a country that have been in War with Israel 4 times and you are talking about Turkey (NATO Member) That have a strong relations with Israel that allows Israel to modernize Turkish weapons and allowing Israel to fly over the Turkish soil to practice against whom do you think !?
Yes against Egypt..,..the only Muslim Country that can harm Israel....but it’s our call not yours.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

The SC said:


> First things first.. Egypt can not counter regional powers with The Al Khalid tanks and the JF-17.. they need the best they can get.. because the potential opponents are armed to the teeth and with the most advanced and capable systems out there.. hope you understand now..


Not what I also met, i was talking abt transfer of technology and joint ventures with countries.


----------



## Kompromat

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And the US would approve such a sale?
> Not sure that Egypt has total freedom here.



We purchased some from Jordan with the US approval. More are in the pipeline.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

The SC said:


> First things first.. *Egypt can not counter regional powers with The Al Khalid tanks and the JF-17.. they need the best they can get*.. because the potential opponents are armed to the teeth and with the most advanced and capable systems out there.. hope you understand now..


Hold on...Didn't Egypt have the best weapons/equipment back in 50's, 60's and 70's and still lost at a number of occasions? Now ofcourse there could be a AK Vs Merkava thread or JF-17 Vs F-16I Sufa thread, but maybe its not the weapons which are the only factor amounting to winning a war.



Keysersoze said:


> Looking at those purchases all I can think is what a logistical nightmare...


Have you noticed that operating different kinds of weapon systems having almost similar capabilities is the new trend in Arab countries ?

F-15, EFT, Rafale - Qatar Air Force
F-18 E/F, EFT- Kuwaiti AF
F-15 S/SA, EFT - RSAF

Its not just Western and eastern equipment, there is a variety in western equipment by itself also.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MMM-E

Amun said:


> BTW are you still occupying lands from your Muslim neighbors (Syria and Iraq)...?!



4+ million Syrians and Iraqis occupied Turkey

btw Turkey has right to fight terrorism in Syria and Iraq ( article 51 of UN self defence )
Turkish Army cleaned Jarablus,Dabıq,Rai,Azez,Al Bab and Afrin from PKK/YPG and ISIS terrorists and over 300.000 Syrians returned to their lands ....... Syrians are with Turkey

on the other hand the US backed PKK/YPG terrorists occupied 30% of Syria to destroy Syria's territorial integrity





Amun said:


> Or you still supplying terrorists in Libya with weapons....!?



You are the real terrorists who support illegal generals to make military coup against legal governments in Egypt and Libya

who gave right to generals to make military coup against legal governments in Egypt and Libya ? of cours the US , the UK ..... only christian copts like you can hate muslim leaders who are not puppet to the US,the UK and Israel

and I remind you that We Turks kicked the US backed FETO terrorist organization who tried military coup attempt in Turkey for American-British-Israeli interests


if we are talking about history then there are Turkish traces in Anatolia and Europe more than 5.000 years ago
Balbals ( Tombstone of the heroes who died in the Turks ) have proved it


btw only ignorant boys can say this ,,, Israel always used traitor Arabs to occupy Palestine under the mask of fighting Egypt,Syria,Iraq,Jordon

Egyptian Army always was controlled by the US backed traitors as like Iraqi Army was controlled by the US backed traitor KESNIZANI , and Turkish Army was controlled by the US backed traitor FETO

Israel beat Arabs in a few days and Israel has invaded the Palestinian territories and is still occupying this land half a century later. Israel also annexed East Jerusalem and the Golan hills

Israeli Airforce destroyed Egyptian Airforce in a few hours ,, even Egyptian Fighter Jets could not take off because of the US backed traitors in Egyptian Armed Forces



Israel and the US still control Egyptian Army , but We Turks kicked the US backed FETO terrorist organization who tried military coup attempt in Turkey for American-British-Israeli interests

and today Turkey is independent and develops over 600 military projects


btw Egyptian Army can not harm even 1.000 ISIS terrorists in Sinai ( and never forget that the US transfered ISIS terrorists to Sinai from Raqqa/Syria )

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Signalian

Super Falcon said:


> And Mig 35 too
> 
> Pak should atleast learn something multirole jet need combination of air superiority to perform better



PAF uses the squadron doctrine to define the role of the aircraft  PAF's Air Superiority Squadrons operate F-7 P/PG aircrafts. No.2 and No.14 Squadrons were Air Superiority Squadrons, when JF-17 replaced F-7 P, the squadrons became Multi Role. Mirages III are used as Air Defense or Escort Fighters for Mirage V strike aircrafts in Squadrons operating both Mirage III and V jointly.



Philip the Arab said:


> He did a while ago. Just check the forum replies from a page or two ago. I messed up the quote though my bad.


You could have come up with a post of SU-35's providing escort to Rafale for a strike mission or a joint mission involving Mig-35 and SU-35 or more interestingly how SU-35's and F-16's can perform a combined mission. You could have mentioned data links and Use of AWAC's.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Amun

MMM-E said:


> 4+ million Syrians and Iraqis occupied Turkey
> 
> btw Turkey has right to fight terrorism in Syria and Iraq ( article 51 of UN self defence )
> Turkish Army cleaned Jarablus,Dabıq,Rai,Azez,Al Bab and Afrin from PKK/YPG and ISIS terrorists and over 300.000 Syrians returned to their lands ....... Syrians are with Turkey
> 
> on the other hand the US backed PKK/YPG terrorists occupied 30% of Syria to destroy Syria's territorial integrity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are the real terrorists who support illegal generals to make military coup against legal governments in Egypt and Libya
> 
> who gave right to generals to make military coup against legal governments in Egypt and Libya ? of cours the US , the UK ..... only christian copts like you can hate muslim leaders who are not puppet to the US,the UK and Israel
> 
> and I remind you that We Turks kicked the US backed FETO terrorist organization who tried military coup attempt in Turkey for American-British-Israeli interests
> 
> 
> if we are talking about history then there are Turkish traces in Anatolia and Europe more than 5.000 years ago
> Balbals ( Tombstone of the heroes who died in the Turks ) have proved it
> 
> 
> btw only ignorant boys can say this ,,, Israel always used traitor Arabs to occupy Palestine under the mask of fighting Egypt,Syria,Iraq,Jordon
> 
> Egyptian Army always was controlled by the US backed traitors as like Iraqi Army was controlled by the US backed traitor KESNIZANI , and Turkish Army was controlled by the US backed traitor FETO
> 
> Israel beat Arabs in a few days and Israel has invaded the Palestinian territories and is still occupying this land half a century later. Israel also annexed East Jerusalem and the Golan hills
> 
> Israeli Airforce destroyed Egyptian Airforce in a few hours ,, even Egyptian Fighter Jets could not take off because of the US backed traitors in Egyptian Armed Forces
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and the US still control Egyptian Army , but We Turks kicked the US backed FETO terrorist organization who tried military coup attempt in Turkey for American-British-Israeli interests
> 
> and today Turkey is independent and develops over 600 military projects
> 
> 
> btw Egyptian Army can not harm even 1.000 ISIS terrorists in Sinai ( and never forget that the US transfered ISIS terrorists to Sinai from Raqqa/Syria )



Pathetic.....just like your Dictator.
BTW .... I understand that you cannot even say a word against Erdo.....you will be arrested immediately I know.
Be happy that you are still using the web


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> Hold on...Didn't Egypt have the best weapons/equipment back in 50's, 60's and 70's and still lost at a number of occasions? Now ofcourse there could be a AK Vs Merkava thread or JF-17 Vs F-16I Sufa thread, but maybe its not the weapons which are the only factor amounting to winning a war.


That is far from the truth; in the 1956 it was a direct war with French, English and Usrael armies, where Egypt had only old weapons from WW1.. In 1967 Egypt had a resemblance of an army not well structured yet and not much training, also with old tech from Russia.. but with the same Russian tech one generation older than the Western tech used by Usrael..Egypt managed to defeat the latter in 1973.. and that is due to good training and outstanding organisation.. mind you that the US was fighting alongside Usrael supplying it from its own weapon stores both in the US and in Europe. And Egypt still managed to hold its own and get back the Sinai Peninsula, which was the main objective of the war.. So coming back to your conclusion.. Egypt has proved it in the Ramadan war by defeating the most advanced US gear with The Mig-21.. but here you should note that the Jf-17 might or might not be able to face the Usraeli F-16 Sofa.. let alone the F-15s and the F-35.. so it is not the time to test.. first Egypt has to be closer/(in par) in raw power with its potential adversaries then it can test what ever it wants..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Signalian

The SC said:


> That is far from the truth, in the 1956 it was a direct war with French, English and Usrael armies, where Egypt had only old weapons from WW1.. In 1967 Egypt had a resemblance of an army not well structured yet and not much training, also with old tech from Russia.. but with the same Russian tech one generation older than the Western tech used by Usrael..Egypt managed to defeat the latter in 1973.. and that is due to a god training and outstanding organisation.. mind you that the US was fighting alongside Usrael supplying it from its own weapon stores both in the US and in Europe. And Egypt still managed to hold its own and get back the Sinai Peninsula, which was the main objective of the war.. So coming back to your conclusion.. Egypt has proved it in the Ramadan war by defeating the most advanced US gear with The Mig-21.. but here you should note that the Jf-17 might or might not be able to face the Usraeli F-16 Sofa.. let alone the F-15s and the F-35.. so it is not the time to test.. first Egypt has to be closer/(in par) in raw power with its potential adversaries then it can test what ever it wants..


With this trend you are going to say the same if a war occurs between Egypt and Israel that IAF had 5th Gen F-35 and EAF had 4.5 Gen so Egypt lagged behind.


----------



## The SC

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Not what I also met, i was talking abt transfer of technology and joint ventures with countries.


Yes there have been many TOT in Egypt.. there is also the potential of making the JF-17 Blk 3 in Egypt.. but first things first..



Signalian said:


> With this trend you are going to say the same if a war occurs between Egypt and Israel that IAF had 5th Gen F-35 and EAF had 4.5 Gen so Egypt lagged behind.


The gap has been narrowed now.. and when that occurred Usrael has all its warplanes, tanks and what have you, a one generation ahead of Egypt.. and all that was fought by mainly the Mig-21 and T-54 and a few T-62.. it is a credit to the Egyptian soldiers and no one or anything else // I'll ask you then to find what the prophet of Islam said about Egypt and its people and soldiers..you might get a clue..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Signalian

The SC said:


> The gap has been narrowed now.. and when that occurred Usrael has all its warplanes, tanks and what have you, a one generation ahead of Egypt.. and all that was fought by mainly the Mig-21 and T-54 and a few T-62.. it is a credit to the Egyptian soldiers and no one or anything else // I'll ask you then to find what the prophet of Islam said about Egypt and its people and soldiers..you might get a clue..


The point you showed in post 106 is "old" weapons in all Egyptian wars with different countries and concluded that Egypt had inferior weapons to Israel but won the 1973 war.

You were replying to my post whose last line stated,
"but maybe its not the weapons which are the only factor amounting to winning a war".
I didn't say weapons win wars. Now you are saying that Egyptian soldiers are due for credit.

Make up your mind about the point you are trying to express, are you arguing or replying for the sake of arguing or replying ? or whats the purpose ? as you are not making any sense by repeating what i said already.

As for JF-17 Vs F-16I, I can argue especially through Block III but thats going to divert the thread and my point is not marketing JF-17 to EAF.


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> The point you showed in post 106 is "old" weapons in all Egyptian wars with different countries and concluded that Egypt had inferior weapons to Israel but won the 1973 war.
> 
> You were replying to my post whose last line stated,
> "but maybe its not the weapons which are the only factor amounting to winning a war".
> I didn't say weapons win wars. Now you are saying that Egyptian soldiers are due for credit.
> 
> Make up your mind about the point you are trying to express, are you arguing or replying for the sake of arguing or replying ? or whats the purpose ? as you are not making any sense by repeating what i said already.
> 
> As for JF-17 Vs F-16I, I can argue especially through Block III but thats going to divert the thread and my point is not marketing JF-17 to EAF.


 Have you missed this part on purpose or what?
"So coming back to your conclusion.. Egypt has proved it in the Ramadan war by defeating the most advanced US gear with The Mig-21"
You know what was proven?
Your quote:
"but maybe its not the weapons which are the only factor amounting to winning a war".
So don't play confused again..

That might be a good thread.. JF-17 III vs Usrael F-16 Sofa..


----------



## Signalian

The SC said:


> Have you *missed this part on purpose* or what?
> "So coming back to your conclusion.. Egypt has proved it in the Ramadan war by defeating the most advanced US gear with The Mig-21"
> 
> That might be a good thread.. JF-17 III vs Usrael F-16 Sofa..


No... i did write about JF-17 Block III without exaggerating it's capabilities, so the Ramadan feat can be achieved again.


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> No... i did write about JF-17 Block III without exaggerating it's capabilities, so the Ramadan feat can be achieved again.


Context and circumstances are different now.. but I agree that the JF-17 III will be a potent fighter, mostly in the hands of well trained pilots.. still the odds are big against the F-35 stealth.. might challenge the F-16 and even the F-15 somehow although they are 4th G+ and ++, hence the need for 4th G++ like the SU-35 and the Rafale.. at least to close the gap with the 5th G..


----------



## Sinnerman108

Amun said:


> Pathetic.....just like your Dictator.
> BTW .... I understand that you cannot even say a word against Erdo.....you will be arrested immediately I know.
> Be happy that you are still using the web



Well, how are things any different in Egypt if not worst ?

I heard some egyptians claiming that SiSi is doing these purchases to make relations with Putin. 
What Egypt is really looking to do, is not be pegged to USA only, rather be between a multi polar balanced planet.

That is when Egypt can really move forward. Walk your own way.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

A good move!! Now, fill it up with EW etc. systems!!! And, the PAF should go for a tough exercise with it to fine tune the tactics...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keysersoze

Signalian said:


> Have you noticed that operating different kinds of weapon systems having almost similar capabilities is the new trend in Arab countries ?
> 
> F-15, EFT, Rafale - Qatar Air Force
> F-18 E/F, EFT- Kuwaiti AF
> F-15 S/SA, EFT - RSAF
> 
> Its not just Western and eastern equipment, there is a variety in western equipment by itself also.


It's almost like they are trying to buy influence lol.
That or they think they need to diversify.


----------



## Mentee

BATMAN said:


> it's Pakistani foreign office, who's is playing it all wrong.
> Our FO must learn, interfering in internal affairs of middle eastern states is a diplomatic suicide, i doubt they do it deliberately for sake of Iran.


What does foreign office has to say about the Egyptian su's


----------



## MMM-E

Amun said:


> Pathetic.....just like your Dictator.
> BTW .... I understand that you cannot even say a word against Erdo.....you will be arrested immediately I know.
> Be happy that you are still using the web



Dont compare your puppet criminal murdered dictator SISI with democratic leaders such as ERDOGAN who rules Turkey since 2003 , MERKEL who rules Germany since 2004 , PUTIN who rules Russia since 2000s

We Turks are not pathetic Egyptians to allow traitor Generals to make military coup against legal governmet for American-British-Israeli interests

the US,the UK and Israel control puppet Egyptian Army and pupet dictator SISI



btw Internet users in Turkey have risen to 54 million from 3,8 million between 2003 and 2018 led by ERDOGAN

and even the US,the UK,Germany are blocking some websites to fight terrorism ,
and only loser terrorist PKK , DHKPC and FETO terrorist organizations are crying about it in Turkey

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

What os price tag .


----------



## Philip the Arab

Imran Khan said:


> What os price tag .


At least 2 billion USD.


----------



## SipahSalar

Mig-29 and Su-35 have identical avionics and weapons package so logistics won't be a problem for at least these two planes. That said, I think it would have been better to either buy 50 Mig-35s or 30 Su-35s rather than a mixture of both.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bsruzm

Philip the Arab said:


> They don't need the manpower. They have the strongest air force, navy, and best land equipment among the Arab states. The U.S. wants them to lead it and so do most of the allies of the Arab states including the Europeans.





Philip the Arab said:


> Trust me, Trump wants the Saudis to lead the group. And what he says goes.


You sound like it's anything but an Arabic initiative.


----------



## Quasar

My be it is time for Egypt to focus on long term plans as well ''Tunder block III or TFX''

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cabatli_53

Egypt created a paralel universe in armed forces from SAMs to tanks, aircrafts, radars. It is not possible to operate them under same network so training of whole soldiers for same strategy will always be a problem. Readiness level of Egyptian paralel universes will always lack behind of other state. At a likely conflict, Paralel universes of Egypt will have to create own situation awareness to perform stand alone striking/defensive operations while other side is sleeping or not aware of what is going on in other universe. Israeli strategists must be happy to see such a complicated collection in Egypt. Sorry to say but That is one of the most amateurish procurement strategy the World has ever seen. Egyptian public should voice some criticism to people who waste public money to create such a giant logistic nightmare. Whoever supporting this weapon collection must have a reason for being a happy fanboy in order to see different weapons with naked eye in parades, postcards and military exhibitions..

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## BATMAN

Mentee said:


> What does foreign office has to say about the Egyptian su's



Foreign office is marketing of Pakistan.


----------



## Abdelrahman

Signalian said:


> With this trend you are going to say the same if a war occurs between Egypt and Israel that IAF had 5th Gen F-35 and EAF had 4.5 Gen so Egypt lagged behind.



Of course. We knew well that fighting the Israelis means fighting the Americans. You have to search about the Nickel grass operation during our last Ramadan war with the Israelis and the military bridges conducted from the US and its military bases specially in Turkey (Incirlik base) by this time to compensate for all the Israeli losses. Also, the direct intervention of SR-71 blackbirds stealth planes in the war. It's obvious for everyone that each president who comes to US presidency have to confirm that he will guarantee the Israeli superiority in the entire region in advance. Have you ever seen any country in the world that operates F-16s, F-15s & F-35s together with their best versions and in large numbers? .. We know well that in case of war against Israel, we will be lagged behind by means of equipment as usual and specially the air force capabilities (even any other country will be lagged behind against Israel in this aspect), but as you said it is not only the equipment that finishes any war despite being a very important factor. The US refused to give Egypt the F-15s before because of an Israeli request . That's why also we are trying to narrow the gap and diversify the sources of our weapons because we don't trust the US even against any other enemy.



SipahSalar said:


> Mig-29 and Su-35 have identical avionics and weapons package so logistics won't be a problem for at least these two planes. That said, I think it would have been better to either buy 50 Mig-35s or 30 Su-35s rather than a mixture of both.



Each one of them has a job to do. Egypt was operating the Russian Mig-21, the Chinese F-7, the American F-4 phantoms, the American F-16s, the French Alpha-jet, the French Mirage 5 and the French Mirage 2000 all together without any logistical problems. Only now some jets are replacing older ones from the same origins.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Philip the Arab

bsruzm said:


> You sound like it's anything but an Arabic initiative.





Abdelrahman said:


> Of course. We knew well that fighting the Israelis means fighting the Americans. You have to search about the Nickel grass operation during our last Ramadan war with the Israelis and the military bridges conducted from the US and its military bases specially in Turkey (Incirlik base) by this time to compensate for all the Israeli losses. Also, the direct intervention of SR-71 blackbirds stealth planes in the war. It's obvious for everyone that each president who comes to US presidency have to confirm that he will guarantee the Israeli superiority in the entire region in advance. Have you ever seen any country in the world that operates F-16s, F-15s & F-35s together with their best versions and in large numbers? .. We know well that in case of war against Israel, we will be lagged behind by means of equipment as usual and specially the air force capabilities (even any other country will be lagged behind against Israel in this aspect), but as you said it is not only the equipment that finishes any war despite being a very important factor. The US refused to give Egypt the F-15s before because of an Israeli request . That's why also we are trying to narrow the gap and diversify the sources of our weapons because we don't trust the US even against any other enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> Each one of them has a job to do. Egypt was operating the Russian Mig-21, the Chinese F-7, the American F-4 phantoms, the American F-16s, the French Alpha-jet, the French Mirage 5 and the French Mirage 2000 all together without any logistical problems. Only now some jets replaced older ones from the same origin.


You going to be more active on the Arab defense forum or is this a one time thing? I say this because you have 22 posts in 4 years.


----------



## bsruzm

Philip the Arab said:


> You going to be more active on the Arab defense forum or is this a one time thing? I say this because you have 22 posts in 4 years.


?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Horus said:


> We purchased some from Jordan with the US approval. More are in the pipeline.



Assuming you can get approval.
Pakistan and the US are not exactly on good terms.


----------



## Philip the Arab

bsruzm said:


> ?


I quoted you by accident I was talking to @Abdelrahman


----------



## Mentee

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Assuming you can get approval.
> Pakistan and the US are not exactly on good terms.


You don't want us to operate any more f16?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-35 is a heavy hitter. Egypt already operates MiG-29M/M2.


----------



## Philip the Arab

Mentee said:


> You don't want us to operate any more f16?


Its not a matter of want, its a matter of possibility. The U.S. has to sign off the deal for you to get the F-16s and knowing Pakistan's current relationship with the U.S. it is very unlikely you will ever get them even if Jordan wants to give you them. The deal could have been signed during the Obama era and now in the Trump era the deal is unlikely to amount to anything.


----------



## Abdelrahman

Philip the Arab said:


> You going to be more active on the Arab defense forum or is this a one time thing? I say this because you have 22 posts in 4 years.



ًWho knows what happens tomorrow?  I'm an old member here who visits and reads in the forum from time to time (sometimes anonymously), but I didn't post too much. To be honest, I'm mainly concerned with the Egyptian affairs in first place then those of other Muslim/Arab countries and remembered this valuable forum after the recent Egyptian deals. Sometimes you read somethings that provoke you to log in and reply/post.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oublious

Amun said:


> First of all....Our Syrian,Iraqi,Libyan,Sudanian brothers are not animals....*.every human being is welcomed in Egypt...*
> You can see Syrians working,having fun and marrying in Egypt....ISIS in Sinai nearly removed...only some of them still coming from Syria via Turkey but we will eradicate them all....unlike your PKK you can’t even get into their territories.
> 
> BTW are you still occupying lands from your Muslim neighbors (Syria and Iraq)...?!
> 
> Or you still supplying terrorists in Libya with weapons....!?
> Or TV Chanels that supports ISIS in Sinai still working..?!
> 
> As for History.....I’m taking about 5000 Years ago.....and you say 1000 year ago.
> I’m talking about protecting our land and you are talking about invading Egypt....
> I’m talking about a country that have been in War with Israel 4 times and you are talking about Turkey (NATO Member) That have a strong relations with Israel that allows Israel to modernize Turkish weapons and allowing Israel to fly over the Turkish soil to practice against whom do you think !?
> Yes against Egypt..,..the only Muslim Country that can harm Israel....but it’s our call not yours.




You dirty liar, why are Palestines not welcome and banned by your country? Thats because millions of Syrians are spread around the world?

It's your call but they are raping Arab lands for more then 50 years and still nothing. And you are working together with israel against iran, what did you smoked?


----------



## Amun

Oublious said:


> You dirty liar, why are Palestines not welcome and banned by your country? Thats because millions of Syrians are spread around the world?
> 
> It's your call but they are raping Arab lands for more then 50 years and still nothing. And you are working together with israel against iran, what did you smoked?



Reported



Sinnerman108 said:


> Well, how are things any different in Egypt if not worst ?
> 
> I heard some egyptians claiming that SiSi is doing these purchases to make relations with Putin.
> What Egypt is really looking to do, is not be pegged to USA only, rather be between a multi polar balanced planet.
> 
> That is when Egypt can really move forward. Walk your own way.


Sisi is criticized daily in Egypt.... but about the purchase of SU 35 ....why doing so....he can by some other lower price equipment but this particular air superiority fighter will make the EAF moving to different level.



Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> A good move!! Now, fill it up with EW etc. systems!!! And, the PAF should go for a tough exercise with it to fine tune the tactics...


Now we are talking science.....this is a start...EAF needs AWACSs and EW systems to integrate all these systems together...
Also a lot of training and new tactics that includes air superiority fighter for the first time.



cabatli_53 said:


> Egypt created a paralel universe in armed forces from SAMs to tanks, aircrafts, radars. It is not possible to operate them under same network so training of whole soldiers for same strategy will always be a problem. Readiness level of Egyptian paralel universes will always lack behind of other state. At a likely conflict, Paralel universes of Egypt will have to create own situation awareness to perform stand alone striking/defensive operations while other side is sleeping or not aware of what is going on in other universe. Israeli strategists must be happy to see such a complicated collection in Egypt. Sorry to say but That is one of the most amateurish procurement strategy the World has ever seen. Egyptian public should voice some criticism to people who waste public money to create such a giant logistic nightmare. Whoever supporting this weapon collection must have a reason for being a happy fanboy in order to see different weapons with naked eye in parades, postcards and military exhibitions..



May be you are right....but on the other hand...Egypt is doing so for about 50 years now....operating American/European/Russian gear.....
The point in the past is mainly IFF systems (which is produced domestically) ... but now...situational awareness and on time response is very critical...(you got a point here)
So still along way to go for all those systems to be integrated together......knowing that Egypt will launch Telecommunications satellite soon ..... also ships like Mistrals are using both GPS and Glonass systems.
Another aspect....may be it is a shifting from western weapons to eastern one gradually

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## The SC

SipahSalar said:


> Mig-29 and Su-35 have identical avionics and weapons package so logistics won't be a problem for at least these two planes. That said, I think it would have been better to either buy 50 Mig-35s or 30 Su-35s rather than a mixture of both.


MIG-35 will share some new component with the SU-35.. just know that the avionics and the rest are very different.. And there are weapons on the SU-35 that MIG-35 can not use ..the SU-35 shares some components with the 5th G SU-57..


----------



## Signalian

Abdelrahman said:


> Of course. We knew well that fighting the Israelis means fighting the Americans. You have to search about the Nickel grass operation during our last Ramadan war with the Israelis and the military bridges conducted from the US and its military bases specially in Turkey (Incirlik base) by this time to compensate for all the Israeli losses. Also, the direct intervention of SR-71 blackbirds stealth planes in the war. It's obvious for everyone that each president who comes to US presidency have to confirm that he will guarantee the Israeli superiority in the entire region in advance. Have you ever seen any country in the world that operates F-16s, F-15s & F-35s together with their best versions and in large numbers? .. We know well that in case of war against Israel, we will be lagged behind by means of equipment as usual and specially the air force capabilities (even any other country will be lagged behind against Israel in this aspect), but as you said it is not only the equipment that finishes any war despite being a very important factor. The US refused to give Egypt the F-15s before because of an Israeli request . That's why also we are trying to narrow the gap and diversify the sources of our weapons because we don't trust the US even against any other enemy.


I am still waiting for an Egyptian member to come up with a scenario of SU35 flying in conjunction with F-16 or Rafale against F-15 or F-35 or even F-16 .

and include the Mig-35 even


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Signalian said:


> and include the Mig-35 even



Egypt don't have MiG-35. They have MiG-29M/M2.


----------



## Philip the Arab

Amun said:


> Reported
> 
> 
> Sisi is criticized daily in Egypt.... but about the purchase of SU 35 ....why doing so....he can by some other lower price equipment but this particular air superiority fighter will make the EAF moving to different level.
> 
> 
> Now we are talking science.....this is a start...EAF needs AWACSs and EW systems to integrate all these systems together...
> Also a lot of training and new tactics that includes air superiority fighter for the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> May be you are right....but on the other hand...Egypt is doing so for about 50 years now....operating American/European/Russian gear.....
> The point in the past is mainly IFF systems (which is produced domestically) ... but now...situational awareness and on time response is very critical...(you got a point here)
> So still along way to go for all those systems to be integrated together......knowing that Egypt will launch Telecommunications satellite soon ..... also ships like Mistrals are using both GPS and Glonass systems.
> Another aspect....may it is a shifting from western weapons to eastern one gradually


Why not buy the An-132? I'm sure you can get Saab Erieye, and EW variants.
Saab 2000







An-132 with EW version which Saudi Arabia already purchased.





Link to website.
https://defence-blog.com/news/royal...e-and-surveillance-aircraft-from-ukraine.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

Abdelrahman said:


> Each one of them has a job to do. Egypt was operating the Russian Mig-21, the Chinese F-7, the American F-4 phantoms, the American F-16s, the French Alpha-jet, the French Mirage 5 and the French Mirage 2000 all together without any logistical problems. Only now some jets are replacing older ones from the same origins.


It would be more interesting to see how EAF will combat F-35 by using a combination of Rafale/SU-35/Mig-35/F-16.



Philip the Arab said:


> Why not buy the An-132? I'm sure you can get Saab Erieye, and EW variants.
> Saab 2000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An-132 with EW version which Saudi Arabia already purchased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link to website.
> https://defence-blog.com/news/royal...e-and-surveillance-aircraft-from-ukraine.html



Can E-2 AWACS link up with Rafale and Su-35 and Migs ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Signalian said:


> Can E-2 AWACS link up with Rafale and Su-35 and Migs ?



Yup.


----------



## Philip the Arab

Signalian said:


> It would be more interesting to see how EAF will combat F-35 by using a combination of Rafale/SU-35/Mig-35/F-16.
> 
> 
> 
> Can E-2 AWACS link up with Rafale and Su-35 and Migs ?


I don't know about that, are you sure they were even built to communicate with the Russian planes because I understand NATO but Soviet/Russian communication seems unlikely


----------



## Signalian

Philip the Arab said:


> I don't know about that, are you sure they were even built to communicate with the Russian planes because I understand NATO but Soviet/Russian communication seems unlikely


Since French AF uses E-2, means it can support Rafale along with F-16's and probably Mirage-2000.

Can SU-35 Radar act as mini AWACS for Mig-35 ? In any case, Voice communication through UHF/VHF radios can be transmitted to SU and Mig's from E-2 for situational awareness and target vectorization. In the absence of Link-16 Data comm link of E-2, voice comm could be the only way, unless EAF orders A-50 or converts an IL-76/78 into AWACS



The SC said:


> MIG-35 will share some new component with the SU-35.. just know that the avionics and the rest are very different.. And there are* weapons on the SU-35 that MIG-35 can not use* ..the SU-35 shares some components with the 5th G SU-57..


Can you be specific about the bold part?



The SC said:


> No choice but to have the full stealth aircraft.. these are the latest tests the Russians are conducting, because the detection of engines was a big issue in Syria test flights.. So Egypt won't procure the SU-57 before it is full stealth/matured..this is supposed to be a 5thG fighter..
> 
> 
> Su-57 fighter will receive a fifth-generation plasma engine
> 
> The fifth-generation Russian fighter Su-57 will receive a plasma engine with reduced radar visibility.
> 
> The chief designer of the Lyulka Design Bureau named after Yulia Yevgeny Marchukov told journalists that the newest front-line fighter in Russia, the Su-57, will be equipped with a plasma engine, the Tsargrad TV channel reports.
> 
> This is a fifth-generation engine, codenamed "Product 30", which was created taking into account domestic and foreign experience. According to the designer, it will be installed on the aircraft by 2020. New power plants will be more powerful and cheaper than the previous ones. Motor traction is 10 times its own weight.
> 
> According to Marchukov, the engine created in the Russian Federation will be the answer for critics of the West who had previously found the Achilles heel of the Su-57. Foreign military analysts noted the high radar visibility of the fighter due to the thermal efficiency of the engine. "Product 30" will be assembled in a fundamentally different way. The unit will integrate a plasma ignition and thrust vector control system. The upgraded nozzles will ensure the ignition of the plasma arc simultaneously with the supply of kerosene. This will help to avoid "flare" - the emission of a pillar of fire from the nozzle due to excess fuel in the combustion chamber. Thus, the visibility of the fighter in the infrared and radio wave range is noticeably reduced.
> 
> Another important innovation of "Product 30" is the variable degree of bypass. The fighter engine will be able to adapt to any flight conditions only by “orders” of the pilot. Managing the plane will be several times easier. It is important that this feature will give the Su-57 the possibility of cruising supersonic movement.
> 
> "PolitEkspert" previously reported that the US is developing an adaptive "turbo heart" for the F-35 - the new XA100 engine for the fighter, which is positioned as a competitor to the Su-57. The development of "Product 30" will be the answer to the American opponent.
> 
> 
> https://politexpert.net/145286-istr...tel-pyatogo-pokoleniya?utm_source=warfiles.ru



In addition to this, I think SU-35 carries a lesser RCS than SU-30.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Philip the Arab said:


> I don't know about that, are you sure they were even built to communicate with the Russian planes because I understand NATO but Soviet/Russian communication seems unlikely



Slovakia is NATO and Russia retrofitted Slovakia's MiG-29 with NATO standard comm equipment.


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> Can you be specific about the bold part?


L150 pastel as a passive monitoring system has the capabilities of directing a large spectrum of ammunition with passive sensors, and a large part of them didn't enter service with the Mig-35..

Defensive systems in legacy and production Flankers include a Radar Warning Receiver, mostly variants of the SPO-32 / L150 Pastel digital receiver carried. The latest subtypes like the Su-35BM/Su-35-1 carry the KNIRTI L175M Khibiny M Radio Frequency Surveillance (RFS = ESM/RHAW) system, initially developed for the Su-34 Fullback. The Khibiny M is believed to use a channelised receiver and most likely employs a wideband dual baseline interferometer in the forward sector, to permit passive targeting of Kh-31P and R-27P/R-77P variants in defence suppression and air combat roles.

Newer Flankers carry the podded wingtip mounted KNIRTI SPS-171 / L005S Sorbtsiya-S mid/high band defensive jammer (ECM), this system being an evolution of a jammer developed for the Backfire C. The Sorbtsiya-S, unlike most Western jamming pods, is designed to operate in pairs and uses forward and aft looking steerable wideband phased arrays to maximise jamming effect, a similar arrangement to the Eurofighter Typhoon EWSP package. It is worth observing that the Sorbtsiya is clearly built to provide cross-eye jamming modes against monopulse threats, and the wideband mainlobe steering capability provided by the phased array permits best possible utilisation of available jamming power. A graded dielectric lens is employed. Russian contractors have been recently using Digital RF Memory (DRFM) technology, which is of the same generation as the US IDECM EWSP..

Concurrently KNIRTI displayed a high power support jamming pod, the SAP-14, intended for centreline carriage on a large pylon. To date little has been disclosed on these pod designs, which are likely to retain the wideband phased array / lens antenna system first used on the Sorbstiya.

the encrypted TKS-2/R-098 (Tipovyi Kompleks Svyazi) Intra Flight Data Link (IFDL) which permits the networking of up to 16 Sukhoi fighters. It is not known whether the 5U15K-11 datalink designed for networking the A-50 AWACS and MiG-31 has been adapted to the Sukhoi fighters..

Air to air weapons are one area where the Russians have been very aggressively developing and marketing new products. The baseline Su-27S was armed with the R-27 (AA-10 Alamo) semiactive radar homing BVR missile and the R-73 (AA-11 Archer) WVR missile. The thrust vectoring R-73 (refer AA 4/97) was a trend setter and we have since seen an improved R-73M marketed, as well as a digitised seeker equipped R-74E variant credited with 75 degree off boresight capability and kinematics to kill 12 G targets. Indian press reports suggest the Rafael Python 4 has been offered to India and it is not inconceivable that this missile will find its way on to Indian and other regional Sukhois - India is currently negotiating for the Phalcon AEW&C system fitted to the Ilyushin A-50E airframe and has acquired ballistic missile defence radars from Israel.

The Vympel R-27 is the Russian equivalent to the late model US AIM-7 Sparrow series BVR missiles, but the similarity ends there since the R-27 is available in a plethora of variants. The basic airframe is supplied in long and short burn variants with differing range performance, and with heatseeking or datalink aided inertially midcourse guided semi-active radar seekers. The R-27R1 and R-27ER1 are the radar guided long and short burn versions, respectively, credited with F-pole ranges of 70 nautical miles and 43 nautical miles. The R-27T1 and R-27ET1 are the respective heat seeking equivalents, credited with slightly lower engagement ranges. The X-band anti-radiation seeker equipped R-27P/EP has been reported, designed to kill emitting fighters in the forward quarter by homing on their radar emissions. More recently Agat have offered new build or retrofit active radar seekers as the R-27A/EA, the AGAT 9B-1103M/9B-1348E, derived from the R-77 seeker.

The most recently exported missile in the region is the Vympel R-77 RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder), the AMRAAMski. This missile, with unique lattice controls, is a modern BVR weapon designed to kill 12G targets, and credited with an A-pole range of 54 nautical miles, although some reports suggest early production rounds are not delivering the kinematic performance advertised, not unlike early AIM-120A AMRAAMs. As the R-77 has AMRAAM-like capabilities, it permits an Su-30 to launch multiple rounds and guide these concurrently, engagement geometry permitting. As the R-77 matures, we can expect to see refinements in propellants, autopilot kinematics and seeker jam resistance.

We have yet to see reports of regional deliveries of the Vympel R-77M RVV-AE-PD (Povyshlenayya Dal'nost') ramjet adder, credited with an A-pole range around 80 nautical miles. This missile is a direct derivative of the R-77.

Alternate seekers for the R-77 have been advertised - the heatseeking R-77T using an MK-80M seeker from the R-73M and R-27T, and the antiradiation R-77P. The deployment of the new F/A-22A later in the decade will see significant pressure on Vympel to supply heatseeking, anti-radiation and electro-optical imaging seekers on the R-77/R-77M in an attempt to counter the combined kinematics and all-aspect stealth of the F/A-22A. While such seekers may do little to offset the overwhelming advantages of the supercruising F/A-22A, they are likely to prove quite effective against inferior types such as the JSF, F/A-18E/F, late model F-15E and F-16C/B50. If the Su-30 can close to a range where an advanced longwave IRST can track the target, an optical seeker equipped R-77 variant can be used to effect an engagement, defeating the RCS reduction measures on these aircraft. The anti-radiation R-77P could be used to engage at maximum missile range.

In the long range missile domain, the Vympel R-37 (AA-X-13) series of AIM-54 Phoenix look-alikes have been proposed - a developmental R-37 successfully engaged a target at 162 nautical miles of A-pole range in 1996. A more interesting proposal has been the use of the Novator R(KS)-172 RVV-L (AAM-L) missile, a 215 nautical mile range 1,650 lb launch weight long range AAM. The R-172 uses datalink/inertial midcourse guidance and an active radar terminal seeker, and Russian sources claim a snap-up capability to 100,000 ft and snap-down capability to 10 ft AGL. KS-172 mockups have been photographed on Su-30 displays but its production status is unclear at this time, although India is negotiating licence production.

Of no less interest is the Kh-31P (AS-17 Krypton) family of ramjet anti-radiation missiles, offered as a standard store on the Su-30/35 subtypes. This missile, in basic anti-radiation and dual mode seeker variants is often dubbed the AWACS killer and would be used to destroy opposing AEW&C aircraft, or surface based radars. Sukhoi advertise a load of up to six rounds, two on the inlet stations.






_Russian missiles either carried by or proposed for Flanker variants (Author)._



Notes: O/B - seeker off-boresight acquisition angle; IRH - heatseeking, single or dual colour scanning seeker; SARH - semi-active radar homing seeker; DL - datalink for midcourse guidance corrections - either analogue or digital; IMU - inertial package for midcourse guidance; Passive RF - passive radio frequency anti-radiation seeker; ARH - active radar homing seeker; Acquisition Range is that at which the seeker can acquire its target; Kinematic Range is A-pole or F-pole; Target G - max load factor of target vehicle; Launch G - max load factor of launch aircraft; APU - Aviatsionnaya Puskovaya Ustanovka (rail launcher); AKU - Aviatsionnaya Katapultnaya Ustanovka (ejector); This is a current open source compilation based on manufacturers' and third party data therefore figures should be treated with appropriate caution (Author).
_



_​The dominance of US ISR capabilities is producing an increasing demand for hard kill 'counter-ISR' weapons and the Sukhoi fighter equipped with missiles like the Vympel R-77M, R-37, Novator KS-172 and Zvezda-Strela Kh-31 variants qualifies exactly as that.

It is clear that the Su-30 has at least two decades more of yet to be exploited technological growth capacity, especially in systems and weapons. The excellent kinematics, large airframe and large apertures give it a decisive long term advantage in growth potential against all teen series types, and with an increasingly borderless international upgrade market, regional users with the cash required will be able to fit some very capable upgrades over time.

We can summarise growth options thus (IASC, 2006):

Supersonic cruise 40,000 lbf class AL-41F engines replacing the AL-31F.

Thrust vectoring (TVC) engine nozzles with 2D or 3D capability. 

Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) becoming standard for late build Flankers. The Su-37 included redundant sidestick controls for the pilot.

Canard foreplanes for enhanced high alpha agility. Production hardware on Su-33 and Su-30MKI. 

An active phased array (AESA) fire control radar replacing the N-001 and N-011/011M series. 

A two color band FLIR/IRST sensor replacing the OLS-30, using QWIP imaging array technology. 

COTS based computer hardware running COTS based software. 

A Helmet Mounted Display with FLIR projection capability. Such an upgrade was being discussed some years ago, and would be easily accommodated with a FLIR/IRST sensor. 

Full glass cockpit based on digital technology. Given the current delivery of first generation glass cockpits in Su-30MK and Su-27SKM, this is a natural progression. 

Heatseeking and anti radiation variants of the R-77 Amraamski, and extended range ramjet powered variants of the R-77. All are in advanced development and actively being marketed. 
Advanced digital variants of the R-73/74 Archer close-in air to air missile. These have been actively marketed. 

AWACS killer long range missiles in the 160 to 200 nautical mile range category. The R-37/AA-X-13 Arrow remains in development for the Su-35, the R-172 was recently reported as the subject of licence negotiations with India. Su-35 upgrade marketing literature depicts the use of such missiles. 

Cruise missiles for standoff attacks. China acquired Kh-55SM/AS-15 Kent cruise missiles from the Ukraine, and is manufacturing indigenous designs. India intends to use the supersonic Brahmos on its Su-30MKIs. 

Advanced jam resistant fighter to fighter and fighter to AWACS datalinks and networks. 

Further evolution of protocol software will see this technology grow to match current US capabilities. 

Radar absorbent materials for radar observables reduction. Numerous Russian unclassified papers detail a range of technologies for surface wave suppression and edge signature reduction, with a specific aim of reducing legacy aircraft observables. 

Aerial refuelling probes, pylon plumbing for drop tanks, and buddy refuelling stores. 

Production hardware available off the shelf. 









_GNPP KAB-500 and KAB-1500 guided bombs _





​The Russians are also actively marketing guided bomb kits for the Sukhoi fighters. The KAB-500L is a direct equivalent to the GBU-16 using the 27N series laser seeker, the KAB-500Kr is equivalent to a TV contrast lock guided 1,000 lb GBU-8 HOBOS fitted with a bunker busting or fuel air explosive warhead. The KAB-1500 is a family of guidance kits for 3,000 lb class dumb bombs, available with unitary or bunker busting warheads. The KAB-1500L is a semi-active laser homing kit, the KAB-1500TK a TV command link guided kit analogous to the GBU-15 but 50% bigger, and the KAB-1500Kr a TV contrast lock guided system. Either three of the 1,500 kg weapons, or six of the 500 kg weapons can be carried by an Su-27/30 with suitable avionics.





_Su-27SKM loadout (Sukhoi).
_




_Su-30MK loadout (Sukhoi)._​

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

The SC said:


> L150 pastel as a passive monitoring system has the capabilities of directing a large spectrum of ammunition with passive sensors, and a large part of them didn't enter service with the Mig-35..


Is this an E/O device mounted on nose? or takes a hard point?


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Horus said:


> Egypt should sell some of its decapitated F-16s to Pakistan which lack AMRAAMS. Use that money to purchase unrestricted, fully capable aircraft like Su-35 or Rafale.


Why do Pakistan need F 16s which lack AMRAAMs?


----------



## Signalian

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Why do Pakistan need F 16s which lack AMRAAMs?


TAI can upgrade them, you can breathe now

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> Is this an E/O device mounted on nose? or takes a hard point?


The latest subtypes like the Su-35BM/Su-35-1 carry the KNIRTI L175M Khibiny M Radio Frequency Surveillance (RFS = ESM/RHAW) system, initially developed for the Su-34 Fullback. The Khibiny M is believed to use a channelised receiver and most likely employs a wideband dual baseline interferometer in the forward sector, to permit passive targeting of Kh-31P and R-27P/R-77P variants in defence suppression and air combat roles.


----------



## Signalian

The SC said:


> The latest subtypes like the Su-35BM/Su-35-1 carry the KNIRTI L175M Khibiny M Radio Frequency Surveillance (RFS = ESM/RHAW) system, initially developed for the Su-34 Fullback. The Khibiny M is believed to use a channelised receiver and most likely employs a wideband dual baseline interferometer in the forward sector, to permit passive targeting of Kh-31P and R-27P/R-77P variants in defence suppression and air combat roles.


Its carried on wing tips. thats all i was asking  enough of ur copy pasting


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> Its carried on wing tips. thats all i was asking  enough of ur copy pasting


It is the khibiny.. I had many threads on the system. so if you didn't know where it was mounted that is your fault.. the rest of the post was for other readers.. you seem too much self-centred


----------



## Signalian

The SC said:


> It is the khibini.. i had many threads on the system. so if you didsn't know where it was mounted that is your fault.. the rest of the post was for other readers.. you seem too much self-centred


wrong on all accounts  ...but i will let you go this time  I am quite generous 

is the SU35 coming with a rearward facing radar ?


----------



## The SC

Signalian said:


> wrong on all accounts  ...but i will let you go this time  I am quite generous
> 
> is the SU35 coming with a rearward facing radar ?


Yes obviously..


----------



## Signalian

The SC said:


> Yes obviously..









Replace this F-18 with F-16 or F-15 and maybe the desired result can be achieved

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The SC

*@Philip the Arab*

*Egypt reportedly orders Su-35 fighters*

https://www.janes.com/article/87282/egypt-reportedly-orders-su-35-fighters



Signalian said:


> View attachment 547806
> 
> 
> Replace this F-18 with F-16 or F-15 and maybe the desired result can be achieved



Su-35​















https://southfront.org/egypt-to-buy-su-35-jets-under-2bln-contract-with-russia-report/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sinnerman108

This is great, 
Load them up with as many A2A missiles as can be, 
and then let them loose ...


----------



## The SC

cabatli_53 said:


> Egypt created a paralel universe in armed forces from SAMs to tanks, aircrafts, radars. It is not possible to operate them under same network so training of whole soldiers for same strategy will always be a problem. Readiness level of Egyptian paralel universes will always lack behind of other state. At a likely conflict, Paralel universes of Egypt will have to create own situation awareness to perform stand alone striking/defensive operations while other side is sleeping or not aware of what is going on in other universe. Israeli strategists must be happy to see such a complicated collection in Egypt. Sorry to say but That is one of the most amateurish procurement strategy the World has ever seen. Egyptian public should voice some criticism to people who waste public money to create such a giant logistic nightmare. Whoever supporting this weapon collection must have a reason for being a happy fanboy in order to see different weapons with naked eye in parades, postcards and military exhibitions..


And what about Turkey buying the S-400 system..isn't that the parallel universe you are criticising Egypt for.. but wanting it for Turkey?



Signalian said:


> In addition to this, I think SU-35 carries a lesser RCS than SU-30.


SU-35E RCS is now between 1 and 3 sqm due to stealth coating material or RAM.. not bad at all for a huge fighter plane..


----------



## Quasar

The SC said:


> And what about Turkey buying the S-400 system..isn't that the parallel universe you are criticising Egypt for.. but wanting it for Turkey?
> 
> 
> SU-35E RCS is now between 1 and 3 sqm due to stealth coating material or RAM.. not bad at all for a huge fighter plane..


 frankly speaking I will try to refrain from derailing the thread but a fact should be stated S-400 will be based on domestic software therefore S-400 will be just another asset to be added to our network centric system architecture

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cabatli_53

The SC said:


> And what about Turkey buying the S-400 system..isn't that the parallel universe you are criticising Egypt for.. but wanting it for Turkey?




Put interoperability of different origin weapons aside, Do you have any idea How many different simulators, training facilities, pilot trainings, spare part procurements, meintenance personal trainings, familarisation flights, different kind of AA, AG, tank rounds, heli-missile purchasings must be done to sustain at least four different kind of fighters, two kinds of attack helicopter, two kind of tanks, SAM’s from different blocks? What about extra costs of each procurement pen hanging a heavy load on the shoulders of public ? It is indeed the choice of Egypt. We are just here to talk so I am just talking about my points.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Mentee said:


> You don't want us to operate any more f16?



Nah, just highlighting an old proverb.

Don’t sell the bearskin, before you killed the bear.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> SU-35E RCS is now between 1 and 3 sqm due to stealth coating material or RAM.. not bad at all for a huge fighter plane..


I don't know about its RCS, however, having a "not bad at all for a huge fighter plane" RCS is worthless. Every radar, even World War 2 radars, could easily detect it from considerable distances, modern radars can detect it from hundreds of kilometers away.


----------



## Philip the Arab

Beny Karachun said:


> I don't know about its RCS, however, having a "not bad at all for a huge fighter plane" RCS is worthless. Every radar, even World War 2 radars, could easily detect it from considerable distances, modern radars can detect it from hundreds of kilometers away.


To be fair, the same could be said about the F-15 and look at its ability today.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Philip the Arab said:


> To be fair, the same could be said about the F-15 and look at its ability today.


The thing is no one boasts about its stealthiness.
@The SC tries to show the SU-35s RCS as an advantage, clearly it's not. Its RCS isnt sufficently small to lend it any gain.


----------



## LeGenD

Philip the Arab said:


> The radar is one of the best in the world and can reportedly detect the F-22 from 100km away.


False.


----------



## Philip the Arab

Beny Karachun said:


> The thing is no one boasts about its stealthiness.
> @The SC tries to show the SU-35s RCS as an advantage, clearly it's not. Its RCS isnt sufficently small to lend it any gain.


It might have better performance against aircraft radars though which is stealth planes biggest goal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

Beny Karachun said:


> I don't know about its RCS, however, having a "not bad at all for a huge fighter plane" RCS is worthless. Every radar, even World War 2 radars, could easily detect it from considerable distances, modern radars can detect it from hundreds of kilometers away.


The same goes for your F-15 and F-16.. are you going to fight with 50 F-35 alone?



Beny Karachun said:


> The thing is no one boasts about its stealthiness.
> @The SC tries to show the SU-35s RCS as an advantage, clearly it's not. Its RCS isnt sufficently small to lend it any gain.


You got it wrong.. I was pointing out that the SU-35 RCS was lowered significantly compared to its predecessors.. 1 to 3 sq m vs 10+ sq m.. the same has happened with the F-15SA.. I think that is why Usrael wants new F-15s too..



LeGenD said:


> False.


Not totally.. the SU-35 is not called a Mini-AWACS for nothing.. its radar is passive and very powerful.. but better yet it is steerable.. with a look-down characteristic of an AWACS..it can spot stealth planes from above and far away on top of its powerful IRST in total silence mod..Don't tell me that the F-22 and F-35 have long range radars covering them on 360 degree..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-35 is a bomb truck. It can carry 8000 kg of bombs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

Amun said:


> The point in the past is mainly IFF systems (which is produced domestically) ... but now...situational awareness and on time response is very critical...(you got a point here)
> So still along way to go for all those systems to be integrated together......knowing that Egypt will launch Telecommunications satellite soon ..... also ships like Mistrals are using both GPS and Glonass systems.
> Another aspect....may be it is a shifting from western weapons to eastern one gradually


I do not think that there is a problem in the issue of communication between the fighters because Russia always offer solutions to this matter for countries that have Western systems as India's Su-30 had French communication and navigation systems instead of/with Russian ones... I think that the communication solutions and data presentation is possible now between the SU-35, the Mig-35, the Rafale and also the F-16 in EAF ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oublious

The SC said:


> I do not think that there is a problem in the issue of communication between the fighters because Russia always offer solutions to this matter for countries that have Western systems as India's Su-30 had French communication and navigation systems instead of/with Russian ones... I think that the communication solutions and data presentation is possible now between the SU-35, the Mig-35, the Rafale and also the F-16 in EAF ..




Maybe Rafeal but F16 you should forget, american will not give you permission for that.


----------



## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> You got it wrong.. I was pointing out that the SU-35 RCS was lowered significantly compared to its predecessors.. 1 to 3 sq m vs 10+ sq m.. the same has happened with the F-15SA.. I think that is why Usrael wants new F-15s too..


That's a worthless effort. If Russia intentionally invested money on lowering the RCS of the Su-35, just to get it to 1-3 squared meters RCS, which is detectable by everything, then Russia wasted money. Boeing didn't try to lower the F-15SA. The F-15SE however, is stealthy. Way more stealthy than the Su-35 could ever hope to be.



The SC said:


> The same goes for your F-15 and F-16.. are you going to fight with 50 F-35 alone?


I never said the Su-35, or any plane is inherintely bad because it's not stealthy. 50 F-35s can neutralize an entire country's airforce. Destroy any objective. Defend any area.


----------



## HannibalBarca

Beny Karachun said:


> I never said the Su-35, or any plane is inherintely bad because it's not stealthy. 50 F-35s can neutralize an entire country's airforce. Destroy any objective. Defend any area.



Hmm... So you think that an Enemy without an Airforce is an enemy who already lost?
Even though that same enemy got Dozen of time your Land force? and soon twice your Navy?


----------



## The SC

Beny Karachun said:


> That's a worthless effort. If Russia intentionally invested money on lowering the RCS of the Su-35, just to get it to 1-3 squared meters RCS, which is detectable by everything, then Russia wasted money. Boeing didn't try to lower the F-15SA. The F-15SE however, is stealthy. Way more stealthy than the Su-35 could ever hope to be.


There is no F-15SE.. it was a prototype..or tech demonstrator.. no one bought it..
Read about the RCS of the F-15 before and after the introduction of the SA version.. Lowering the RCS of the SU-35 seems to hurt you so much .. it is quite obvious.. no one talked about stealth.. wait for the coming Egyptian SU-57 and quote me then.. 



Beny Karachun said:


> I never said the Su-35, or any plane is inherintely bad because it's not stealthy. 50 F-35s can neutralize an entire country's airforce. Destroy any objective. Defend any area.


That is a wet dream.. but better let you feel that way..'cause the shock will be more painful.. Hope and pray that the EAF SU-35 won't destroy them first..but then you need to continue the same prayers for the Iskander TBM..


----------



## Signalian



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beny Karachun

HannibalBarca said:


> Hmm... So you think that an Enemy without an Airforce is an enemy who already lost?
> Even though that same enemy got Dozen of time your Land force? and soon twice your Navy?


You would have to be a moron to still believe numbers are what matters, after the countless times Israel proved otherwise.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HannibalBarca

Beny Karachun said:


> You would have to be a moron to still believe numbers are what matters, after the countless times Israel proved otherwise.


to you back...to think 50 F-35 will win a war...


----------



## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> There is no F-15SE.. it was a prototype..or tech demonstrator.. no one bought it..
> Read about the RCS of the F-15 before and after the introduction of the SA version.. Lowering the RCS of the SU-35 seems to hurt you so much .. it is quite obvious.. no one talked about stealth.. wait for the coming Egyptian SU-57 and quote me then..


I used it merely as an example. Not a single dollar was spent on reducing the F-15SA's RCS. Or the new Israeli F-15IA. If Russia spent anything on lowering the Su-35s RCS, but did not make it stealthy, the effort is pointless.
Su-57? You mean that junk no one wants to buy? With a heat signature bigger than the sun itself? That everyone doubts its stealth capability?



HannibalBarca said:


> to you back...to think 50 F-35 will win a war...


 Never said that. I said 50 F-35s are enough to operate as the Airforce's backbone fighter jets.



The SC said:


> That is a wet dream.. but better let you feel that way..'cause the shock will be more painful.. Hope and pray that the EAF SU-35 won't destroy them first..but then you need to continue the same prayers for the Iskander TBM..


We're very afraid. I hope you know what happens when a single missile hits the Aswan.


----------



## Ceylal

HannibalBarca said:


> Hmm... So you think that an Enemy without an Airforce is an enemy who already lost?
> Even though that same enemy got Dozen of time your Land force? and soon twice your Navy?


It’s the Chef that make the kitchen speaks, not the pans and the pots...
In today’s war, it doesn’t matter if the radar cross section is small, big, of obtuse..It is the gadgets that come with the craft and the pilot trainings that make the difference..So far the Egyptians, are being penalized by their proximity to Israel and are not getting what it’s needed to win a war..certainly not with Israel.


----------



## The SC

Beny Karachun said:


> I used it merely as an example. Not a single dollar was spent on reducing the F-15SA's RCS. Or the new Israeli F-15IA. If Russia spent anything on lowering the Su-35s RCS, but did not make it stealthy, the effort is pointless.
> Su-57? You mean that junk no one wants to buy? With a heat signature bigger than the sun itself? That everyone doubts its stealth capability?
> 
> Never said that. I said 50 F-35s are enough to operate as the Airforce's backbone fighter jets.
> 
> 
> We're very afraid. I hope you know what happens when a single missile hits the Aswan.


Who told you Russians spent or didn't, everyone is using Ram to lower RCS.. you seem sure about uncertainties..
What about a single missile hitting Dimona? You know you are scared..that is why clinging to the US by all means..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HannibalBarca

Ceylal said:


> It’s the Chef that make the kitchen speaks, not the pans and the pots...
> In today’s war, it doesn’t matter if the radar cross section is small, big, of obtuse..It is the gadgets that come with the craft and the pilot trainings that make the difference..So far the Egyptians, are being penalized by their proximity to Israel and are not getting what it’s needed to win a war..certainly not with Israel.


Chef exist thanks to that pan and pot...
Ofc Equipment alone are useless... But to check you need to put him/her in situation aka WARish.
Till then,we could only assume that they may or may not win. Since the equipment used are recent.


----------



## Ceylal

HannibalBarca said:


> Chef exist thanks to that pan and pot...
> Ofc Equipment alone are useless... But to check you need to put him/her in situation aka WARish.
> Till then,we could only assume that they may or may not win. Since the equipment used are recent.


Une 2cv ne battra jamais une Alfa Romeo..
I sincerely doubt that they have a cook..Historical facts don’t lie..


----------



## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> Who told you Russians spent or didn't, everyone is using Ram to lower RCS.. you seem sure about uncertainties..
> What about a single missile hitting Dimona? You know you are scared..that is why clinging to the US by all means..


There's no RAM on F-15s, or non-stealthy planes in general. If there's RAM on Su-35, it's a waste. Because it's not stealthy anyways.
Dimona installation is 6 stories deep in the ground, so even if you could penetrate our air defenses, and reach the sixth floor, the building is built to contain itself. Nothing would happen if you strike Dimona. However, Egypt would be utterly crippled if Israel targets the Aswan.


----------



## The SC

Beny Karachun said:


> There's no RAM on F-15s, or non-stealthy planes in general. If there's RAM on Su-35, it's a waste. Because it's not stealthy anyways.
> Dimona installation is 6 stories deep in the ground, so even if you could penetrate our air defenses, and reach the sixth floor, the building is built to contain itself. Nothing would happen if you strike Dimona. However, Egypt would be utterly crippled if Israel targets the Aswan.


US and Russian experts have said long time ago that to destroy Aswan it will take no less than a few nuclear weapons.. so here goes your argument..and if you use Nukes in the middle east..you''ll be wiped out..everyone there is just waiting for that alibi..

You must be living out of this world not to know that the US applies RAM coating to its 4th g fighters..

"The most important contributors to low observability are the aircraft’s shape and the use of LO coatings, with airframe shape commonly seen as twice as important as the coatings, he said.
“But just because it’s not a pure LO aircraft doesn’t mean that the designers weren’t concerned with the radar return,” said Laslie, who added that it’s “reasonable” to expect a 10 percent decrease to the aircraft’s signature by augmenting Block III jets with additional RAM coating."
https://www.defensenews.com/digital.../09/how-stealthy-is-boeings-new-super-hornet/

So stop quoting me with your dumb and baseless comments.. I don't like interacting with you or your kinds..


----------



## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> US and Russian experts have said long time ago that to destroy Aswan it will take no less than a few nuclear weapons.. so here goes your argument..and if you use Nukes in the middle east..you''ll be wiped out..everyone there is just waiting for that alibi..


They never said that, one cruise missile is all that's needed. 





If striking Dimona is enough to destroy Israel but nuking the Aswan less than a few times won't destroy it, you're officially on the spectrum. A single cruise missile is enough to weaken the dam to such an extent that it will eventually break down.

The F-18 Advanced Super Hornet is 0.1m^2 RCS, that's small enough to not grab attention by radars from far away. However, if radars see 1m^2-3m^2 objects, they will surely know it's an aircraft, and they can detect it from very far away. So it's not stealthy, but not to say it's defenseless because of that. If they put effort to make an aircraft's RCS lower, make it actually low.


----------



## The SC

Beny Karachun said:


> They never said that, one cruise missile is all that's needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If striking Dimona is enough to destroy Israel but nuking the Aswan less than a few times won't destroy it, you're officially on the spectrum. A single cruise missile is enough to weaken the dam to such an extent that it will eventually break down.
> 
> The F-18 Advanced Super Hornet is 0.1m^2 RCS, that's small enough to not grab attention by radars from far away. However, if radars see 1m^2-3m^2 objects, they will surely know it's an aircraft, and they can detect it from very far away. So it's not stealthy, but not to say it's defenseless because of that. If they put effort to make an aircraft's RCS lower, make it actually low.


Your information is from the mid 80's. The Egyptians have built a huge series of locks and two massive diversion channels into the western desert which would mitigate the impact of destroying the Aswan dam. Also using cruise missiles or even J-dams wouldn't destroy the Aswan dam in the sense that all Lake Nasser would come gushing through. For that kind of damage you need to use a nuclear device. Even then, the backup locks down the Nile and the diversion channels will still protect the cities. Janes had a very interesting report on this a few years back. Israel just keeps burning its bridges, falsely believing they will maintain military superiority for ever.

Now go find the truth before commenting here.. or on the Super Hornet RCS that has been achieved by RAM coating that does not seem to sink in your stubborn mind..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> Egyptians have built a huge series of locks and two massive diversion channels into the western desert which would mitigate the impact of destroying the Aswan dam. Also using cruise missiles or even J-dams wouldn't destroy the Aswan dam in the sense that all Lake Nasser would come gushing through. For that kind of damage you need to use a nuclear device. Even then, the backup locks down the Nile and the diversion channels will still protect the cities. Janes had a very interesting report on this a few years back. Israel just keeps burning its bridges, falsely believing they will maintain military superiority for ever.


Lol, a bunker buster bomb would surely punch a hole through any dam it wants, and the river will do the rest. You don't need nuclear bombs to destroy dams. The destruction of the Aswan would destroy your major cities, and will block all supply lines, reinforcements, etc to the Sinai.


----------



## The SC

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol, a bunker buster bomb would surely punch a hole through any dam it wants, and the river will do the rest. You don't need nuclear bombs to destroy dams. The destruction of the Aswan would destroy your major cities, and will block all supply lines, reinforcements, etc to the Sinai.


----------



## The SC

"The Russians use the ‘4++' label for the Su-35 to be able to claim they are able to achieve 90 percent or more of the capability of the far more expensive U.S.-made F-22 and F-35 platforms, but a lower cost," said a NATO intelligence officer who spoke to the _Free Beacon_. "This is why the Su-35 is the only Russian aircraft that has been purchased by the Chinese in more than a decade … the Su-35 represents significant combat power that goes far beyond the previous-models of Russian fighters acquired by Beijing in the 1990s and in the last decade."

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-to-supply-advance-fighter-aircraft-to-egypt/amp/

*-------------------------------------------------------------*

*'Su-35 Can See F-35 All Right': Military Expert Says US Jet 'Too Complex'*


The US’ fifth generation F-35 stealth fighter is too expensive and will become less and less invisible as new and more sophisticated radars come along, Russian military expert Dmitry Drozdenko told Sputnik.
*
Too Complex
*
“The F-35 is a very complex system and, as such, it has lots of holes, bugs and other things, and it is very difficult to debug it. Like other problems, all this is because it is an excessively high-tech aircraft," Drozdenko said.
He mentioned the problems the F-35 has had with its radar-evading coating and the life support system for its pilots.

“The Americans tolerate this plane because it’s a very big and expensive business with contracts running into trillions of dollars. While they keep making the F-35as, the Americans are modernizing their 4++ generation F-18s and F-15s trying to bring them up to par with Russia’s Su-35,” he noted.

The expert stressed that a single-hour flight of an F-35 costs about $40,000 compared to about $18,000 for an F-18.





© REUTERS / Gary Cameron/File Photo
US 5th-Gen F-35 Jet's Price Reportedly Dips 6 Percent After Trump's Criticism

“Unlike us, the Americans rely too much on stealth. However, radar technology is developing fast and invisibility is no longer a sure-fire guarantor of air supremacy,” Drozdenko explained.

He added that Russia, while also using stealth technology, still prioritizes the plane per se.
“Dogfights haven’t gone anywhere. They will fire from a distance the first day, but a couple of days later, we’ll be flying like we always did before,” he said.
*
Too Expensive
*
Another big question is whether we really need such expensive planes like F-35s and Su-57s.

Drozdenko believes that instead of going for the fifth generation, Russia should use the Su-57 prototype to develop a six-generation fighter.

“We should keep in mind that the Su-35S can see the F-35 all right and it has excellent flying characteristics too.”

Dmitry Drozdenko doesn’t think that Turkey would opt to buy Su-57s from Russia instead of the F-35s whose delivery has been put on hold by Washington, simply because Ankara has already paid for their delivery.

"Another reason is that Turkey is part of the production chain and its exit would cost Lockheed Martin a lot of money,” the expert said, adding that the current spat between Turkey and the US was unlikely to result in a complete break-off because Turkey is too important ally for the US in the region.

Still another reason for Washington’s decision to suspend the F-35s’ delivery to Turkey is Ankara’s decision to buy two batteries of the S-400 system from Russia.





© Sputnik / Evgeny Biyatov
Russian Military Inks Contract for First Batch of Su-57 Fifth-Gen Stealth Fighters

“Why don’t the Americans want to hand these planes over to Turkey? I think one reason is that the F-35s’ arrival would create a unique situation where US planes and Russian missile defense systems find themselves as part of a single armed force. Then it could transpire that the stealth fighter is not as stealthy as is touted. The word could leak out for everyone to realize that the F-35 is really not such a big deal after all. This could lead to a financial scandal.”

With India having pulled out of an 11-year joint program to develop a fifth generation fighter jet with Russia, built around the Su-57, Drozdenko said that it remains unclear whether Delhi really needs a fifth generation fighter.

While admitting that technology-wise the F-35 leaves the Su-35 behind, the expert said that in a combat situation, technology is not always the winner.

“Imagine a BMW and a Russian Niva on a bumpy road somewhere deep in Russia. Which of the two will drive out? Technology is technology, but war is war,” he noted.

He added that quality management with the F-35 depends directly on the manufacturer supplying spare parts, etc.
“But what happens if a country buying these planes falls out of Washington’s favor? If it does, the Americans will simply pull the plug and the plane is no longer a plane. Everyone who buys [F-35] immediately becomes dependent on someone who has his finger on the button,” Dmitry Drozdenko emphasized.
*
S-400
*
Washington earlier warned Turkey that its planned purchase of the S-400 air defense system from Russia could reflect negatively on the supply of F-35s to its NATO ally.

Washington is trying to persuade Turkey to buy the US-made MIM-104 Patriot surface-to-air-missiles, citing the S-400’s incompatibility with NATO Standards

Moscow and Ankara inked a loan agreement for the acquisition of four S-400 air defense missile battery systems in December 2017. The initial delivery of the Russian-made advanced missile system to Turkey is planned for the first quarter of 2020.

_
The views and opinions expressed by the speaker do not necessarily reflect those of Sputnik._

https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201808151067215661-f35-su35-expert-opinion/

*


vs

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

The SC said:


> I do not think that there is a problem in the issue of communication between the fighters because Russia always offer solutions to this matter for countries that have Western systems as India's Su-30 had French communication and navigation systems instead of/with Russian ones... I think that the communication solutions and data presentation is possible now between the SU-35, the Mig-35, the Rafale and also the F-16 in EAF ..


Thales too was able to do this with the Indian Mig-29 when it was supplied with the "TSB 2500" and was able to provide interoperability with western military aircraft..

https://defense-update.com/20100326_modernize-iff-mig-29.html


----------



## Signalian

Interesting discussion, let compare the Capabilities of F-35 and SU-35 and then further on with legacy aircrafts (F-16, F-15, Mig-35 etc) as well as Rafale and see where the dog fight stands in middle east.

Starting with F-35 and SU-35.

*The stealth Factor*
F-35 is a stealth aircraft while SU-35 is not, although its RCS has been reduced considerably yet not as small as F-35, which straightaway gives edge to F-35 in detecting SU-35 before the SU-35 can detect F-35, although due to steps taken in reducing RCS of SU-35, it might get detected at a later stage than earlier calculated.

The basic stealth give-away for SU-35 is firstly its design, which is aerodynamic but not stealthy. Its engine nozzles are not as well protected to contain exhausts, and there are two of them, not even one like F-35. This gives an edge to F-35 RCS again, since the heat signature for SU-35 will be greater than F-35 during WVR combat when IR missiles come into play.

The missiles for SU-35 will be carried externally which gives no advantage in reducing RCS, where as missiles of F-35 will be carried internally, which gives an RCS advantage to F-35.

*Role Playing*
Lets have a look at the roles of both aircrafts. F-35 was designed as multirole fighter, not as an air superiority fighter, yet it will be tasked to carry out the role of air to air combat. SU-35 on the other hand was designed from SU-27, an air superiority fighter, which further incarnated into SU-30 Strike fighter, attaining multirole capability.

The role of F-35I could be strike missions using its stealth capability to enter EAF air space, wile SU-35's main role would probably be air dominance, while the likes of Rafale, F-16's and Mirage-2000 would fulfill the strike role. This is not necessarily true in every case since both aircrafts carry all type of weaponry. However in a scenario where IAF F-35I are encountered, EAF could launch SU-35's in response and a dog fight may ensue. IAF field a dedicated air superiority fighter, the famous F-15 in all versions, A/B/C and D, there is also E version (F-15I) used for strike role. It could be expected that F-35I will be escorted by F-15's while SU-35 will be complimented by Rafale. To maintain its stealthy profile, F-35 could also work best alone. On the other hand, IAF could use F-16 and F-15 to create a diversion and allow F-35 to strike from a different vector from a less defended air space and location.

*Payload - Carrying the bite*
F-35 carries Aim-120 and Aim-9x, apart from other AAM's. Two of each or a any other configuration. The best bet could be however to carry 4 long range AAM's and avoid to get close to SU-35 for WVR fights. Any load carried externally will enhance its RCS, giving away its stealthy profile by some margin. It can also carry different bombs in internal payload configuration which makes it a excellent strike fighter to penetrate enemy air defense, although it could give away its location if it starts to jam enemy radars and communications. Its external payload allows it to carry from missiles for different mission profiles.

SU-35 on the other hand has 12 (or 14) hard points for a variety of AAM's to be carried: all ranges. A variant of R-73 (R-73 MII or R-74) is almost similar to Aim-9X. The Longest range missile is R-37 which is aimed at destroying slow moving aircrafts (AWACS/Refueler etc) operating deep down inside enemy air space, up to 350+ km. The R-27 and R-77 are medium to long range, depending upon their variants (including RVV-AE). For strike role, its capable to carry different types of missiles and bombs. The purpose of this post is Air to air combat between SU-35 and F-35 so i won't go into details of strike payload.

While SU-35 may get a buddy refueling pod since SU-30 is buddy refuel capable, its not clear if F-35 will get buddy refuel capability.

*Electronics/Sensors - Smelling the coffee*

The avionics and sensors of F-35I can be debated since Israel is intent on using own electronic systems, but lets go with current ones. F-35 houses APG-81 AESA Radar, with E/O sensor (EOTS) on nose, used as a targeting system. The radar can track 23 targets and engage 19 of them. It can detect SU-35 at more than 150 km away. For RWR, self defense counter measures, situational awareness, surveillance and IR tracking, the F-35 carries ASQ-239 EW system, which has sensors spread throughout the body up to wing tips and tail. This supplemented by AAQ-37, DAS, which gives additional 6 sensors and counter measure system for alertness and protection. The AESA radar is inter-connected with all these systems, becoming a apart of EW system of F-35. Another capability is progress is controlling UCAV's through F-35 radar and sensory systems. HMDS is connected to everything; sensors and missiles (especially Aim-9X). 

SU-35 may become capable of carrying AESA Radar in future, although it currently carries IRBIS-E PESA Radar in RuAF service. The Radar can track 30 targets and attack 8 aerial targets simultaneously. It can detect F-35 around 80-90 km away. The L-175 Khibiny electronic warfare suite is employed, with new wingtip DRFM technology jamming pods. SU-35 has OLS-35 E/O device (IRST) and its capable of carrying KNIRTI SAP-14 and SAP-518 jamming pods for EW.

*Air Combat- The Real Deal*

There is a huge probability that F-35 will be guiding F-16's and F-15's in combat against SU-35, Mig-35, Rafale, F-16's etc. F-35 could fire off its long range AAM's to take out as many enemy fighters as it can and either turn away or stay in the arena to give back up to F-16's and F-15's through situational awareness, especially if an AWACS is not present due to the threat of being shot down by SU-35/Rafale. Unless F-35 is carrying a HOBS Aim-9x, it would be risky to get close to SU-35. F-35 will have to trade-off between stealth or range and payload. . F-35's fuel capacity is lesser than that of SU-35. In order to stay longer in the dog fight, it will need refueling or external tanks, a problem from which SU-35 is independent. SU-35 can carry, external fuel tanks while its internal fuel capacity is decent. SU-35 could have a higher climb rate than F-35 (cant find F-35 climb rate anywhere) as well as speed and agility, its ECM suite is quite good, but none of these factors guarantee that it will be evade AMRAAM or other BVR missiles fired by F-35. Rafale could compliment SU-35 in taking on F-35, although Rafale is non-stealthy too, but it houses an AESA and a good EW suite but that doesn't give edge over F-35. Through usage of lower frequency bands or when the bays of F-35 open for a missile launch, then chances to capitalize on these opportunities could help SU-35 to detect F-35 and if it could respond by firing at same time, then SU-35 could have a chance to take down F-35. Emission of low frequencies could detect F-35 since it begins to act like an antenna, re-radiating the electromagnetic field as current it induces flows from one end (or one side) to the other, due to change of wavelength. The RAM applied to attenuate higher frequency radars isn't thick enough to effectively eliminate the current flowing in the aircraft's body and airfoils at low frequencies, so it can reflect when wave length of RF signal varies from high to low. Otherwise using method of triangulation with the help of other aircrafts and radars deployed on ground could help in tracking F-35.

F-35's stealth is the major factor which could ensure it survives the onslaught of SU-35 and Rafale, where as SU-35's maneuverability and large payload, along with use of EW sensors could help it take down F-35's. 

@Khafee @Tps43

@Zarvan @FuturePAF @OCguy @gambit @GriffinsRule @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @F-22Raptor @dexter @LKJ86 @Super Falcon @Beast @SABRE @vostok

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beny Karachun

Signalian said:


> The Radar can track 30 targets and attack 8 aerial targets simultaneously. It can detect F-35 around 80-90 km away.


That's bullshit.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Signalian said:


> Interesting discussion, let compare the Capabilities of F-35 and SU-35 and then further on with legacy aircrafts (F-16, F-15, Mig-35 etc) as well as Rafale and see where the dog fight stands in middle east.
> 
> Starting with F-35 and SU-35.
> 
> *The stealth Factor*
> F-35 is a stealth aircraft while SU-35 is not, although its RCS has been reduced considerably yet not as small as F-35, which straightaway gives edge to F-35 in detecting SU-35 before the SU-35 can detect F-35, although due to steps taken in reducing RCS of SU-35, it might get detected at a later stage than earlier calculated.
> 
> The basic stealth give-away for SU-35 is firstly its design, which is aerodynamic but not stealthy. Its engine nozzles are not as well protected to contain exhausts, and there are two of them, not even one like F-35. This gives an edge to F-35 RCS again, since the heat signature for SU-35 will be greater than F-35 during WVR combat when IR missiles come into play.
> 
> The missiles for SU-35 will be carried externally which gives no advantage in reducing RCS, where as missiles of F-35 will be carried internally, which gives an RCS advantage to F-35.
> 
> *Role Playing*
> Lets have a look at the roles of both aircrafts. F-35 was designed as multirole fighter, not as an air superiority fighter, yet it will be tasked to carry out the role of air to air combat. SU-35 on the other hand was designed from SU-27, an air superiority fighter, which further incarnated into SU-30 Strike fighter, attaining multirole capability.
> 
> The role of F-35I could be strike missions using its stealth capability to enter EAF air space, wile SU-35's main role would probably be air dominance, while the likes of Rafale, F-16's and Mirage-2000 would fulfill the strike role. This is not necessarily true in every case since both aircrafts carry all type of weaponry. However in a scenario where IAF F-35I are encountered, EAF could launch SU-35's in response and a dog fight may ensue. IAF field a dedicated air superiority fighter, the famous F-15 in all versions, A/B/C and D, there is also E version (F-15I) used for strike role. It could be expected that F-35I will be escorted by F-15's while SU-35 will be complimented by Rafale. To maintain its stealthy profile, F-35 could also work best alone. On the other hand, IAF could use F-16 and F-15 to create a diversion and allow F-35 to strike from a different vector from a less defended air space and location.
> 
> *Payload - Carrying the bite*
> F-35 carries Aim-120 and Aim-9x, apart from other AAM's. Two of each or a any other configuration. The best bet could be however to carry 4 long range AAM's and avoid to get close to SU-35 for WVR fights. Any load carried externally will enhance its RCS, giving away its stealthy profile by some margin. It can also carry different bombs in internal payload configuration which makes it a excellent strike fighter to penetrate enemy air defense, although it could give away its location if it starts to jam enemy radars and communications. Its external payload allows it to carry from missiles for different mission profiles.
> 
> SU-35 on the other hand has 12 (or 14) hard points for a variety of AAM's to be carried: all ranges. A variant of R-73 (R-73 MII or R-74) is almost similar to Aim-9X. The Longest range missile is R-37 which is aimed at destroying slow moving aircrafts (AWACS/Refueler etc) operating deep down inside enemy air space, up to 350+ km. The R-27 and R-77 are medium to long range, depending upon their variants (including RVV-AE). For strike role, its capable to carry different types of missiles and bombs. The purpose of this post is Air to air combat between SU-35 and F-35 so i won't go into details of strike payload.
> 
> While SU-35 may get a buddy refueling pod since SU-30 is buddy refuel capable, its not clear if F-35 will get buddy refuel capability.
> 
> *Electronics/Sensors - Smelling the coffee*
> 
> The avionics and sensors of F-35I can be debated since Israel is intent on using own electronic systems, but lets go with current ones. F-35 houses APG-81 AESA Radar, with E/O sensor (EOTS) on nose, used as a targeting system. The radar can track 23 targets and engage 19 of them. It can detect SU-35 at more than 150 km away. For RWR, self defense counter measures, situational awareness, surveillance and IR tracking, the F-35 carries ASQ-239 EW system, which has sensors spread throughout the body up to wing tips and tail. This supplemented by AAQ-37, DAS, which gives additional 6 sensors and counter measure system for alertness and protection. The AESA radar is inter-connected with all these systems, becoming a apart of EW system of F-35. Another capability is progress is controlling UCAV's through F-35 radar and sensory systems. HMDS is connected to everything; sensors and missiles (especially Aim-9X).
> 
> SU-35 may become capable of carrying AESA Radar in future, although it currently carries IRBIS-E PESA Radar in RuAF service. The Radar can track 30 targets and attack 8 aerial targets simultaneously. It can detect F-35 around 80-90 km away. The L-175 Khibiny electronic warfare suite is employed, with new wingtip DRFM technology jamming pods. SU-35 has OLS-35 E/O device (IRST) and its capable of carrying KNIRTI SAP-14 and SAP-518 jamming pods for EW.
> 
> *Air Combat- The Real Deal*
> 
> There is a huge probability that F-35 will be guiding F-16's and F-15's in combat against SU-35, Mig-35, Rafale, F-16's etc. F-35 could fire off its long range AAM's to take out as many enemy fighters as it can and either turn away or stay in the arena to give back up to F-16's and F-15's through situational awareness, especially if an AWACS is not present due to the threat of being shot down by SU-35/Rafale. Unless F-35 is carrying a HOBS Aim-9x, it would be risky to get close to SU-35. F-35 will have to trade-off between stealth or range and payload. . F-35's fuel capacity is lesser than that of SU-35. In order to stay longer in the dog fight, it will need refueling or external tanks, a problem from which SU-35 is independent. SU-35 can carry, external fuel tanks while its internal fuel capacity is decent. SU-35 could have a higher climb rate than F-35 (cant find F-35 climb rate anywhere) as well as speed and agility, its ECM suite is quite good, but none of these factors guarantee that it will be evade AMRAAM or other BVR missiles fired by F-35. Rafale could compliment SU-35 in taking on F-35, although Rafale is non-stealthy too, but it houses an AESA and a good EW suite but that doesn't give edge over F-35. Through usage of lower frequency bands or when the bays of F-35 open for a missile launch, then chances to capitalize on these opportunities could help SU-35 to detect F-35 and if it could respond by firing at same time, then SU-35 could have a chance to take down F-35. Emission of low frequencies could detect F-35 since it begins to act like an antenna, re-radiating the electromagnetic field as current it induces flows from one end (or one side) to the other, due to change of wavelength. The RAM applied to attenuate higher frequency radars isn't thick enough to effectively eliminate the current flowing in the aircraft's body and airfoils at low frequencies, so it can reflect when wave length of RF signal varies from high to low. Otherwise using method of triangulation with the help of other aircrafts and radars deployed on ground could help in tracking F-35.
> 
> F-35's stealth is the major factor which could ensure it survives the onslaught of SU-35 and Rafale, where as SU-35's maneuverability and large payload, along with use of EW sensors could help it take down F-35's.
> 
> @Khafee @Tps43



Link to OP?


----------



## Mithridates

Beny Karachun said:


> That's bullshit.


75 km


----------



## Philip the Arab

Beny Karachun said:


> That's bullshit.





58 km away but I'm unsure of the detection range of the F-35 detecting the Su-35.


----------



## The SC

Philip the Arab said:


> 58 km away but I'm unsure of the detection range of the F-35 detecting the Su-35.


These ranges can be achieved by SU-35 IRST alone in total silence mod..i.e; Radar not activated..(SU-35 passive radar range is 400km)



Signalian said:


> Interesting discussion, let compare the Capabilities of F-35 and SU-35 and then further on with legacy aircrafts (F-16, F-15, Mig-35 etc) as well as Rafale and see where the dog fight stands in middle east.
> 
> Starting with F-35 and SU-35.
> 
> *The stealth Factor*
> F-35 is a stealth aircraft while SU-35 is not, although its RCS has been reduced considerably yet not as small as F-35, which straightaway gives edge to F-35 in detecting SU-35 before the SU-35 can detect F-35, although due to steps taken in reducing RCS of SU-35, it might get detected at a later stage than earlier calculated.
> 
> The basic stealth give-away for SU-35 is firstly its design, which is aerodynamic but not stealthy. Its engine nozzles are not as well protected to contain exhausts, and there are two of them, not even one like F-35. This gives an edge to F-35 RCS again, since the heat signature for SU-35 will be greater than F-35 during WVR combat when IR missiles come into play.
> 
> The missiles for SU-35 will be carried externally which gives no advantage in reducing RCS, where as missiles of F-35 will be carried internally, which gives an RCS advantage to F-35.
> 
> *Role Playing*
> Lets have a look at the roles of both aircrafts. F-35 was designed as multirole fighter, not as an air superiority fighter, yet it will be tasked to carry out the role of air to air combat. SU-35 on the other hand was designed from SU-27, an air superiority fighter, which further incarnated into SU-30 Strike fighter, attaining multirole capability.
> 
> The role of F-35I could be strike missions using its stealth capability to enter EAF air space, wile SU-35's main role would probably be air dominance, while the likes of Rafale, F-16's and Mirage-2000 would fulfill the strike role. This is not necessarily true in every case since both aircrafts carry all type of weaponry. However in a scenario where IAF F-35I are encountered, EAF could launch SU-35's in response and a dog fight may ensue. IAF field a dedicated air superiority fighter, the famous F-15 in all versions, A/B/C and D, there is also E version (F-15I) used for strike role. It could be expected that F-35I will be escorted by F-15's while SU-35 will be complimented by Rafale. To maintain its stealthy profile, F-35 could also work best alone. On the other hand, IAF could use F-16 and F-15 to create a diversion and allow F-35 to strike from a different vector from a less defended air space and location.
> 
> *Payload - Carrying the bite*
> F-35 carries Aim-120 and Aim-9x, apart from other AAM's. Two of each or a any other configuration. The best bet could be however to carry 4 long range AAM's and avoid to get close to SU-35 for WVR fights. Any load carried externally will enhance its RCS, giving away its stealthy profile by some margin. It can also carry different bombs in internal payload configuration which makes it a excellent strike fighter to penetrate enemy air defense, although it could give away its location if it starts to jam enemy radars and communications. Its external payload allows it to carry from missiles for different mission profiles.
> 
> SU-35 on the other hand has 12 (or 14) hard points for a variety of AAM's to be carried: all ranges. A variant of R-73 (R-73 MII or R-74) is almost similar to Aim-9X. The Longest range missile is R-37 which is aimed at destroying slow moving aircrafts (AWACS/Refueler etc) operating deep down inside enemy air space, up to 350+ km. The R-27 and R-77 are medium to long range, depending upon their variants (including RVV-AE). For strike role, its capable to carry different types of missiles and bombs. The purpose of this post is Air to air combat between SU-35 and F-35 so i won't go into details of strike payload.
> 
> While SU-35 may get a buddy refueling pod since SU-30 is buddy refuel capable, its not clear if F-35 will get buddy refuel capability.
> 
> *Electronics/Sensors - Smelling the coffee*
> 
> The avionics and sensors of F-35I can be debated since Israel is intent on using own electronic systems, but lets go with current ones. F-35 houses APG-81 AESA Radar, with E/O sensor (EOTS) on nose, used as a targeting system. The radar can track 23 targets and engage 19 of them. It can detect SU-35 at more than 150 km away. For RWR, self defense counter measures, situational awareness, surveillance and IR tracking, the F-35 carries ASQ-239 EW system, which has sensors spread throughout the body up to wing tips and tail. This supplemented by AAQ-37, DAS, which gives additional 6 sensors and counter measure system for alertness and protection. The AESA radar is inter-connected with all these systems, becoming a apart of EW system of F-35. Another capability is progress is controlling UCAV's through F-35 radar and sensory systems. HMDS is connected to everything; sensors and missiles (especially Aim-9X).
> 
> SU-35 may become capable of carrying AESA Radar in future, although it currently carries IRBIS-E PESA Radar in RuAF service. The Radar can track 30 targets and attack 8 aerial targets simultaneously. It can detect F-35 around 80-90 km away. The L-175 Khibiny electronic warfare suite is employed, with new wingtip DRFM technology jamming pods. SU-35 has OLS-35 E/O device (IRST) and its capable of carrying KNIRTI SAP-14 and SAP-518 jamming pods for EW.
> 
> *Air Combat- The Real Deal*
> 
> There is a huge probability that F-35 will be guiding F-16's and F-15's in combat against SU-35, Mig-35, Rafale, F-16's etc. F-35 could fire off its long range AAM's to take out as many enemy fighters as it can and either turn away or stay in the arena to give back up to F-16's and F-15's through situational awareness, especially if an AWACS is not present due to the threat of being shot down by SU-35/Rafale. Unless F-35 is carrying a HOBS Aim-9x, it would be risky to get close to SU-35. F-35 will have to trade-off between stealth or range and payload. . F-35's fuel capacity is lesser than that of SU-35. In order to stay longer in the dog fight, it will need refueling or external tanks, a problem from which SU-35 is independent. SU-35 can carry, external fuel tanks while its internal fuel capacity is decent. SU-35 could have a higher climb rate than F-35 (cant find F-35 climb rate anywhere) as well as speed and agility, its ECM suite is quite good, but none of these factors guarantee that it will be evade AMRAAM or other BVR missiles fired by F-35. Rafale could compliment SU-35 in taking on F-35, although Rafale is non-stealthy too, but it houses an AESA and a good EW suite but that doesn't give edge over F-35. Through usage of lower frequency bands or when the bays of F-35 open for a missile launch, then chances to capitalize on these opportunities could help SU-35 to detect F-35 and if it could respond by firing at same time, then SU-35 could have a chance to take down F-35. Emission of low frequencies could detect F-35 since it begins to act like an antenna, re-radiating the electromagnetic field as current it induces flows from one end (or one side) to the other, due to change of wavelength. The RAM applied to attenuate higher frequency radars isn't thick enough to effectively eliminate the current flowing in the aircraft's body and airfoils at low frequencies, so it can reflect when wave length of RF signal varies from high to low. Otherwise using method of triangulation with the help of other aircrafts and radars deployed on ground could help in tracking F-35.
> 
> F-35's stealth is the major factor which could ensure it survives the onslaught of SU-35 and Rafale, where as SU-35's maneuverability and large payload, along with use of EW sensors could help it take down F-35's.
> 
> @Khafee @Tps43


"The Su-35’s most critical improvements over its predecessors may be in hardware. It is equipped with a powerful L175M Khibiny electronic countermeasure system intended to distort radar waves and misdirect hostile missiles. This could significantly degrade attempts to target and hit the Flanker-E."

"Supplementing the radar is an OLS-35 targeting system that includes an Infra-Red Search and Track (IRST) system said to have a fifty-mile range—potentially a significant threat to stealth fighters."

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...u-35-plane-air-force-should-worry-about-32517

"Low-wave ground radars imprecise? Error box of RLM-M radar that is a component of NEBO-M tri-band radar system is about 500 meters, which is tiny given that all it needs to do is guide a missile close enough for the seeker to find and lock onto the target. There is a reason why NEBO-M radar is a powerful AESA with very advanced signal processing and LPI techniques. 

Even more laughable is the claim that IRST is imprecise: given that the IRST works in 2 bands, one of which almost completely ignores clouds, claim of lack of precision is a joke.
As far as radar goes - the claim that PESA is easier to detect relies on it being unable to change frequency and timing of the radar pulses, however that is not a given: if the central transmitter is of a broad-band capability, or there are 3 or 4 that work in different frequencies and all are connected to TR modules to facilitate the frequency hop, then there is no reason why it's any more detectable than AESA. Also it's possible to play with waveform and make it LPI. Frequency hop is not the only way.
LPI =//= zero probability of intercept. Khibini is an extremely advanced EW system and isn't a given that it'll be unable to detect the F-22 and F-35.

Author didn't mention the MAWS on the Flanker, something F-22 doesn't have. Neither did he mention the fact that IRBIS radar has at least 120 degree off-boresight capability in all directions (phased steering + mechanical deflection). That means that in a dogfight the Flanker doesn't even need to go post-stall since it can lock onto the target while it's more than 90 degrees away.

(go to link)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The SC

Philip the Arab said:


> Well, its best to be prepared always even if Egypt and Israel are at relative peace for now. I think Egypt should procure more SHOAD and HIMAD SAM systems with less of a focus on aerial war but the Su-35 is more capable against Israeli F-35s, F-15s, and F-16s than say Egyptian F-16s. I mean what other reason can you think of for Egypt buying the Su-35?


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/comm...t-complex-missile-system-in-the-world.534655/


----------



## Philip the Arab

The SC said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/comm...t-complex-missile-system-in-the-world.534655/


The thing is a lot of the missiles weaknesses are known because of the US capturing them and doing testing on them. Same goes with the S-300 after the cold war when Germany gave it to the U.S.


----------



## Wasteland

Philip the Arab said:


> The thing is a lot of the missiles weaknesses are known because of the US capturing them and doing testing on them. Same goes with the S-300 after the cold war when Germany gave it to the U.S.




I would bet even the Russian weapon system developers themselves are willingly giving away the "secrets and weaknesses" to the US, and maybe other countries in exchange for some $$. Bet i would easily find news about such incident already if i went on a short giggly googlie rampage.


----------



## The SC

Wasteland said:


> I would bet even the Russian weapon system developers themselves are willingly giving away the "secrets and weaknesses" to the US, and maybe other countries in exchange for some $$. Bet i would easily find news about such incident already if i went on a short giggly googlie rampage.


Russia proposed the S-400 to the US.. they seem to be confident about their tech "vulnerability"..


----------



## The SC

Pakhtoon yum said:


> The only problem we see with the Egyptian strategy is having too many eggs and too many baskets, goodluck when the funds are tight.


How come you see it as a problem?
Doesn't wisdom say:"Never put you eggs in the same basket" ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

The SC said:


> How come you see it as a problem?
> Doesn't wisdom say:"Never put you eggs in the same basket" ?


It's also common sense, to not spread your self too thin, which Egypt is doing. I could careless what Egypt ends up doing in the end. I was just carious to some of the reasons to why they would do, so.


----------



## The SC

Pakhtoon yum said:


> It's also common sense, to not spread your self too thin, which Egypt is doing. I could careless what Egypt ends up doing in the end. I was just carious to some of the reasons to why they would do, so.


The reason is simple enough to understand.. to thwart any kind of sanctions if the going gets tough..
As for spreading too thin.. It is obvious that you don't understand that the SU-35 is a complement to the Mig-35 (combined they make a force of 80 aircrafts) that is not thin, the same with more than 200 F-16s and 24+12 Rafale as a first batch..which is an extension of the 18 Mirage 2000 already operated in Egypt.. there is nothing stretched thin in here it is quite the contrary..


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

The SC said:


> The reason is simple enough to understand.. to thwart any kind of sanctions if the going gets tough..
> As for spreading too thin.. It is obvious that you don't understand that the SU-35 is a complement to the Mig-35 (combined they make a force of 80 aircrafts) that is not thin, the same with more than 200 F-16s and 24+12 Rafale as a first batch..which is an extension of the 18 Mirage 2000 already operated in Egypt.. there is nothing stretched thin in here it is quite the contrary..


You assumed for me that I dont understand, which on ur case was a short and sloppy conclusion. Would recommend u vist the thread where the Americans threatened Egypt on its acquisition of the jets. Have a nice day, Arab


----------



## The SC

Pakhtoon yum said:


> You assumed for me that I dont understand, which on ur case was a short and sloppy conclusion. Would recommend u vist the thread where the Americans threatened Egypt on its acquisition of the jets. Have a nice day, Arab


Thanks Pakhtoon..Sorry but here again you are not showing you can make a difference between the US congress and the white house.. you can read trump's statements on tweeter.. the congress is always playing the bad cop..


----------



## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> How come you see it as a problem?
> Doesn't wisdom say:"Never put you eggs in the same basket" ?


Having Rafales, F-16s, Su-35s and MiG 35s, is a logistical nightmare.


----------



## Wilhelm II

Beny Karachun said:


> Having Rafales, F-16s, Su-35s and MiG 35s, is a logistical nightmare.


Egypt do this before with f4 f7 mig21. Egyptians are smart to choose weapons from all power blocks in world. When a country sale downgrade weapons wisdom say buy from another country. World market is huge

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beny Karachun

Wilhelm II said:


> Egypt do this before with f4 f7 mig21. Egyptians are smart to choose weapons from all power blocks in world. When a country sale downgrade weapons wisdom say buy from another country. World market is huge


Still a logistical nightmare.


----------



## Defense Reader

Pakhtoon yum said:


> The only problem we see with the Egyptian strategy is having too many eggs and too many baskets, goodluck when the funds are tight.


I think sir they took modi gi announcement too seriously of not having a platform like Rafale so they (Egyptian) purchasing every available platform from markeat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

Defense Reader said:


> I think sir they took modi gi announcement too seriously of not having a platform like Rafale so they (Egyptian) purchasing every available platform from markeat


To me its seems like the same kickback scheme the Indians did.



The SC said:


> Thanks Pakhtoon..Sorry but here again you are not showing you can make a difference between the US congress and the white house.. you can read trump's statements on tweeter.. the congress is always playing the bad cop..


We'll see


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Philip the Arab said:


> 58 km away but I'm unsure of the detection range of the F-35 detecting the Su-35.



IRST has range 100+ km.



Beny Karachun said:


> Still a logistical nightmare.



Israel operated Mirage III and F-4 at the same time. Shouldn't be an issue with Su-35 and Rafale. F-16 is getting retired in a decade or two. Really old frames.


----------



## Beny Karachun

undertakerwwefan said:


> IRST has range 100+ km.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel operated Mirage III and F-4 at the same time. Shouldn't be an issue with Su-35 and Rafale. F-16 is getting retired in a decade or two. Really old frames.


That made our technician's work way more difficult though.


----------



## Wasteland

Beny Karachun said:


> That made our technician's work way more difficult though.




Did the technicians complain to you about it or something?


----------



## Imran Khan

egypt has great history i wish egypt have good air force .they should go direct to su35 without looking left and right

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gangsta_rap

Beny Karachun said:


> Still a logistical nightmare.


nobody asked for your take on it honkey


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Egypt has never operated a heavy fighter before. Su-35 is a size class bigger than MiG-29M/M2. Be interesting if Egypt does get Su-35.


----------



## Fledgingwings

First Rafales and now flankers,what a potent mix.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

Imran Khan said:


> egypt has great history i wish egypt have good air force .they should go direct to su35 without looking left and right


Egypt did..its SU-35s are being manufactured as we speak.. those sanction talks are empty.. they did the same with India for its purchase of the S-400 and than backed off..Turkey is an exception because it is a NATO member..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Wilhelm II

The SC said:


> Egypt did..its SU-35s are being manufactured as we speak.. those sanction talks are empty.. they did the same with India for its purchase of the S-400 and than backed off..Turkey is an exception because it is a NATO member..


Egypt have a positive role in region and USA should thanks for that why sanctions over su35?! USA must help Egypt


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wilhelm II said:


> Egypt have a positive role in region and USA should thanks for that why sanctions over su35?! USA must help Egypt



CAATSA is a new law that requires the America president to sanction any country that buys anything from Russia, Iran, North Korea. It was passed by congress with over 99% support.


----------



## Philip the Arab

undertakerwwefan said:


> CAATSA is a new law that requires the America president to sanction any country that buys anything from Russia, Iran, North Korea. It was passed by congress with over 99% support.


Basically trying to monopolize American military exports to allies. Its a stupid law that and could cause allies to leave America.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sully3

all those tourists visiting the red sea pay for all these egyptian goodies


----------



## The SC

Wilhelm II said:


> Egypt have a positive role in region and USA should thanks for that why sanctions over su35?! USA must help Egypt


That is what Trump said..but Congress always play the bad cop when it comes to the Middle East in particular..mainly bringing up Usrael's security.. and in this case it is quite displaced, 'cause Usrael has the F-35.. and Su-35 is in par with the F-15, meaning that even with this Egyptian deal, the EAF will still be a half generation behind the IAF ..that is why Egypt will be allowed to get its SU-35s..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wilhelm II

undertakerwwefan said:


> CAATSA is a new law that requires the America president to sanction any country that buys anything from Russia, Iran, North Korea. It was passed by congress with over 99% support.


That is not behavior in dignity Egypt. If they want no country buy russian weapons they should sale their modern weapons without downgrade


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wilhelm II said:


> That is not behavior in dignity Egypt. If they want no country buy russian weapons they should sale their modern weapons without downgrade



Americans are bullies. They don't sell F-35 to Arabs. So Egypt buy Su-35 and there's nothing Yanks can do about it. Go ahead with their stupid sanctions. No one cares. They are not the top dog anymore.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Wilhelm II

The SC said:


> That is what Trump said..but Congress always play the bad cop when it comes to the Middle East in particular..mainly bringing up Usrael's security.. and in this case it is quite displaced, 'cause Usrael has the F-35.. and Su-35 is in par with the F-15, meaning that even with this Egyptian deal, the EAF will still be a half generation behind the IAF ..that is why Egypt will be allowed to get its SU-35s..


By israeI nuks they have no need even f35 they are safe with nuks . If Egypt is threat for Israel Saudi Arabia is not far and they have advanced f15 . Saudi can be threat for them what is different


----------



## Philip the Arab

Wilhelm II said:


> By israeI nuks they have no need even f35 they are safe with nuks . If Egypt is threat for Israel Saudi Arabia is not far and they have advanced f15 . Saudi can be threat for them what is different


I don't see why Saudi Arabia or Egypt need Nukes. One warhead full of Sarin would mess up all of Israel.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Philip the Arab said:


> I don't see why Saudi Arabia or Egypt need Nukes. One warhead full of Sarin would mess up all of Israel.



A thermobaric on their power plant would do the job too.


----------



## Philip the Arab

undertakerwwefan said:


> A thermobaric on their power plant would do the job too.


Wouldn't an EMP disable their ability to launch the missiles themselves?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Philip the Arab said:


> Wouldn't an EMP disable their ability to launch the missiles themselves?



Yeah but it's very difficult for AD to stop a missile. Chance less than 5%.


----------



## Philip the Arab

undertakerwwefan said:


> Yeah but it's very difficult for AD to stop a missile. Chance less than 5%.


I'm not saying that. A preemptive strike would fry the electronics on board the missiles right? Therefor disabiling their ability to launch.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Philip the Arab said:


> I'm not saying that. A preemptive strike would fry the electronics on board the missiles right? Therefor disabiling their ability to launch.



EMP is unproven technology.


----------



## Philip the Arab

undertakerwwefan said:


> EMP is unproven technology.


Has it not been done with nukes?


----------



## Wilhelm II

My brothers Arabs should not make another holocaust. That is a dark way. I don't like far right Israeli government. Israel is a hell for Palestinians but we should work with EU China and Russia against USA unusual supporting israeI we must have powerful military and diplomacy to pressure them for our want. At the first Arabs must united


----------



## Mhmoud

Philip the Arab said:


> Wouldn't an EMP disable their ability to launch the missiles themselves?


Almost all electronic devices used on military applications are EMP-hardened, and I would guess that this especially applies to ballistic and cruise missiles. There is also the possibility of bombing the cities using F-35s or sending the missiles through submarines, which are believed to hold the bulk of the arsenal.


----------



## DavidSling

Philip the Arab said:


> Wouldn't an EMP disable their ability to launch the missiles themselves?


----------



## Philip the Arab

DavidSling said:


>


Then again, couldn't a missile based attack like the Jericho just be targeted by a ABM with a nuclear warhead? Would simplify the need for precision guidance. Russia does that with their ABM system over Moscow.


----------



## DavidSling

Philip the Arab said:


> I don't see why Saudi Arabia or Egypt need Nukes. One warhead full of Sarin would mess up all of Israel.


https://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-secret-nuclear-biological-and-chemical-weapons-nbc/5352454



Philip the Arab said:


> Then again, couldn't a missile based attack like the Jericho just be targeted by a ABM with a nuclear warhead? Would simplify the need for precision guidance. Russia does that with their ABM system over Moscow.


Well, nuke on Israel would pretty much destroy everything except the underground bunkers of Jericho that built to withstand nuclear blast


----------



## Philip the Arab

DavidSling said:


> https://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-secret-nuclear-biological-and-chemical-weapons-nbc/5352454


Iran has chemical weapons as well, as do some other Arab countries that we don't know of. If Israel retaliates via these three options being Nuclear, Biological, or Chemically than I expect the same from Arab states or Iran. If Iran launched say 300 BM that I doubt you could intercept every single one of them but I'm not sure how many TELs that Iran has.



DavidSling said:


> https://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-secret-nuclear-biological-and-chemical-weapons-nbc/5352454
> 
> 
> Well, nuke on Israel would pretty much destroy everything except the underground bunkers of Jericho that built to withstand nuclear blast


Tsar bomba?


----------



## DavidSling

Philip the Arab said:


> Iran has chemical weapons as well, as do some other Arab countries that we don't know of. If Israel retaliates via these three options being Nuclear, Biological, or Chemically than I expect the same from Arab states or Iran. If Iran launched say 300 BM that I doubt you could intercept every single one of them but I'm not sure how many TELs that Iran has.
> 
> 
> Tsar bomba?


That's why they will be used as a last resort


----------



## Mhmoud

Philip the Arab said:


> Iran has chemical weapons as well, as do some other Arab countries that we don't know of. If Israel retaliates via these three options being Nuclear, Biological, or Chemically than I expect the same from Arab states or Iran. If Iran launched say 300 BM that I doubt you could intercept every single one of them but I'm not sure how many TELs that Iran has.
> 
> 
> Tsar bomba?


The issue is that Iran will not launch 300 BMs, as early warning systems would have them launch their own baggage across before impact. Also, there are submarines which are designed to be undetectable and will also hold nuclear weapons, right at the Gulf. It would be impossible to avoid and devastating for Iran. As for the Tsar Bomba, good luck finding any country willing to sell any comparable piece of equipment. No country has ever sold nukes.


----------



## The SC

Hey guys we all know that Usrael is suicidal.. read about Masada in ancient times.. and now their Samson option..

OT: The SU-35 is for Egypt to lessen the technological gap with Usrael and others who might get the F-35 in the region..until the SU-57 becomes even more stealthy, matured and ready..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------

