# Guns for new owners: Price, Reliability, Usability



## JohnWick007

Hi Guys,

So I'm new to the Pakistani gun market and was wondering which gun I should choose for a home defence scenario.

I have little knowledge of the local gun market except for the fact that there is an import ban on guns. So I was wondering what excatly is the cost of 
i) Imported weapons (Pistols or Shotguns)
ii) Locally made clones 
iii) Any other options?

Also what would be a more reliable weapon for personal defence, a handgun or a shotgun?
And what kind of bullet should one choose?

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful input.


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## CrazyZ

I would recommend a handgun (just keep it way from any children). Can't go wrong with a Glock 9MM....maybe very expensive and difficult to find. Depending on your budget, you may have to go for a local handgun.

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## Pepsi Cola

I'd recommend the Chinese made guns. Cheap and pretty good qualities.

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## Mentee

Visit daud sons armory


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## Zapper

Does Pak allow civilians to own AK or AR type rifles - the civilian variants?

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## Path-Finder

Zapper said:


> Does Pak allow civilians to own AK or AR type rifles - the civilian variants?


Yes.


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## Pepsi Cola

Zapper said:


> Does Pak allow civilians to own AK or AR type rifles - the civilian variants?



AK is so boring, all terrorists have it. I think he needs something special.


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## Zapper

Pepsi Cola said:


> AK is so boring, all terrorists have it. I think he needs something special.


I agree since civilians don't need to worry about ruggedness since they don't operate in rough and harsh terrains

What he needs is a good AR styled rifle


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## Azadkashmir

buy submarine with nukes much more exciting.

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## El Sidd

JohnWick007 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> So I'm new to the Pakistani gun market and was wondering which gun I should choose for a home defence scenario.
> 
> I have little knowledge of the local gun market except for the fact that there is an import ban on guns. So I was wondering what excatly is the cost of
> i) Imported weapons (Pistols or Shotguns)
> ii) Locally made clones
> iii) Any other options?
> 
> Also what would be a more reliable weapon for personal defence, a handgun or a shotgun?
> And what kind of bullet should one choose?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your thoughtful input.



Honor Killers Tiger Youth rises


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## Amaa'n

JohnWick007 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> So I'm new to the Pakistani gun market and was wondering which gun I should choose for a home defence scenario.
> 
> I have little knowledge of the local gun market except for the fact that there is an import ban on guns. So I was wondering what excatly is the cost of
> i) Imported weapons (Pistols or Shotguns)
> ii) Locally made clones
> iii) Any other options?
> 
> Also what would be a more reliable weapon for personal defence, a handgun or a shotgun?
> And what kind of bullet should one choose?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your thoughtful input.


If it is solely for Home Defense where you are expected to engage the intruder at max 60yards, look no further & get yourself a *Shotgun*. With *Birdshot* (small grain for layman) you will neutralize the threat with a knock down effect, a shot to the leg with one Birdshot & the guy will be running back on his forearms. Also it has less chance of killing anyone in the vicinity of your home.....In Pakistan shooting some is veryyyy easy, getting away with a murder even in a self defence situation is troublesome & you do not want to go down that road.

Coming to second question that which one to get?
1) *Imported: *all lot of tacticool looking *turkish* semi auto shotguns are available in the market, retailing b/w 45- 65k. These get smuggled into the country via a Afghanistan. Visit this guys channel if you want to know aboutTUrkish models in Pakistan






Apart from that there are many others but they are above 100k which doesn't justify the price.

2)* Local: *look no further and get yourself a Pump Action shotgun by Daudsons, they are the only reliable manufacturer of weapons in Pakistan, even for a newbie. Someone who is new to firearms, i would advise to stay away from other manufacturers as i know all of the renowned ones personally. Daudons have simple pump action model which is good for you.










However if you want something tacticool then they have another variant of same shotgun with extra goodies.

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## Metal 0-1

CrazyZ said:


> I would recommend a handgun (just keep it way from any children). Can't go wrong with a Glock 9MM....maybe very expensive and difficult to find. Depending on your budget, you may have to go for a local handgun.


Despite of their small size they are hard to use..



Foxtrot Alpha said:


> If it is solely for Home Defense where you are expected to engage the intruder at max 60yards, look no further & get yourself a *Shotgun*. With *Birdshot* (small grain for layman) you will neutralize the threat with a knock down effect, a shot to the leg with one Birdshot & the guy will be running back on his forearms. Also it has less chance of killing anyone in the vicinity of your home.....In Pakistan shooting some is veryyyy easy, getting away with a murder even in a self defence situation is troublesome & you do not want to go down that road.
> 
> Coming to second question that which one to get?
> 1) *Imported: *all lot of tacticool looking *turkish* semi auto shotguns are available in the market, retailing b/w 45- 65k. These get smuggled into the country via a Afghanistan. Visit this guys channel if you want to know aboutTUrkish models in Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from that there are many others but they are above 100k which doesn't justify the price.
> 
> 2)* Local: *look no further and get yourself a Pump Action shotgun by Daudsons, they are the only reliable manufacturer of weapons in Pakistan, even for a newbie. Someone who is new to firearms, i would advise to stay away from other manufacturers as i know all of the renowned ones personally. Daudons have simple pump action model which is good for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However if you want something tacticool then they have another variant of same shotgun with extra goodies.


Not suitable. Shotguns are not used in situations where bad guys and good guys are mixed up. Totally shit.



JohnWick007 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> So I'm new to the Pakistani gun market and was wondering which gun I should choose for a home defence scenario.
> 
> I have little knowledge of the local gun market except for the fact that there is an import ban on guns. So I was wondering what excatly is the cost of
> i) Imported weapons (Pistols or Shotguns)
> ii) Locally made clones
> iii) Any other options?
> 
> Also what would be a more reliable weapon for personal defence, a handgun or a shotgun?
> And what kind of bullet should one choose?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your thoughtful input.


I personally recommend Pistol Caliber Carbines or SMGs if you are good shooter go for quality 9mm pistol.
or you want expertise this video is your guide. A former Navy SEAL will take you through Every gun you can own and also scenarios which can occur.

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## Old School

It all depends on your experience. Don't buy if you never used a gun beyond a shooting range. You will get yourself killed. Intruders (or whatever you
call them) are less forgiving to people with guns.

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## Metal 0-1

Old School said:


> It all depends on your experience. Don't buy if you never used a gun beyond a shooting range. You will get yourself killed. Intruders (or whatever you
> call them) are less forgiving to people with guns.


Yup, listen to this guy Call the police put your cellphone on speaker and slide it across your room. Your call is on recording. Most importantly you have your both hands free.


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## JohnWick007

Metal 0-1 said:


> Yup, listen to this guy Call the police put your cellphone on speaker and slide it across your room. Your call is on recording. Most importantly you have your both hands free.


Where I live the response time for police is horrible. My mother once saw someone getting car jacked on the street. The police asked all the details, Fast forward 2 hours later, my mother receives a call from the police asking for the details again. In short the police did nothing in the first two hours. Not sure I'm going to be trusting them to show up when I need them



Foxtrot Alpha said:


> If it is solely for Home Defense where you are expected to engage the intruder at max 60yards, look no further & get yourself a *Shotgun*. With *Birdshot* (small grain for layman) you will neutralize the threat with a knock down effect, a shot to the leg with one Birdshot & the guy will be running back on his forearms. Also it has less chance of killing anyone in the vicinity of your home.....In Pakistan shooting some is veryyyy easy, getting away with a murder even in a self defence situation is troublesome & you do not want to go down that road.
> 
> Coming to second question that which one to get?
> 1) *Imported: *all lot of tacticool looking *turkish* semi auto shotguns are available in the market, retailing b/w 45- 65k. These get smuggled into the country via a Afghanistan. Visit this guys channel if you want to know aboutTUrkish models in Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from that there are many others but they are above 100k which doesn't justify the price.
> 
> 2)* Local: *look no further and get yourself a Pump Action shotgun by Daudsons, they are the only reliable manufacturer of weapons in Pakistan, even for a newbie. Someone who is new to firearms, i would advise to stay away from other manufacturers as i know all of the renowned ones personally. Daudons have simple pump action model which is good for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However if you want something tacticool then they have another variant of same shotgun with extra goodies.


What models does Daudsons' offer and what are the prices?



CrazyZ said:


> I would recommend a handgun (just keep it way from any children). Can't go wrong with a Glock 9MM....maybe very expensive and difficult to find. Depending on your budget, you may have to go for a local handgun.


With the prices og glocks these days I'm not sure I can get a glock?

What would be the prices for cheaper imported guns? Or local handguns?

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## Metal 0-1

JohnWick007 said:


> What models does Daudsons' offer and what are the prices?


If you want to injure your family members yes go for shotguns.



JohnWick007 said:


> With the prices og glocks these days I'm not sure I can get a glock?
> 
> What would be the prices for cheaper imported guns? Or local handguns?


If you want to buy a pistol Give your self time on shooting range.They are very hard to shoot and handle sounds crazy. 
Local glocks are around 50k put Original smith and Wessons barrel in it you have yourself a good pistol.
Go for PCC/Pistol Caliber Carbine Short size zero recoil minimum penetration.


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## Amaa'n

Metal 0-1 said:


> Despite of their small size they are hard to use..
> 
> 
> Not suitable. Shotguns are not used in situations where bad guys and good guys are mixed up. Totally shit.
> 
> 
> I personally recommend Pistol Caliber Carbines or SMGs if you are good shooter go for quality 9mm pistol.
> or you want expertise this video is your guide. A former Navy SEAL will take you through Every gun you can own and also scenarios which can occur.





JohnWick007 said:


> What models does Daudsons' offer and what are the prices?
> 
> 
> What would be the prices for cheaper imported guns? Or local handguns?





Metal 0-1 said:


> If you want to injure your family members yes go for shotguns.
> 
> 
> .


Brother if he is shooting at a long range say at 60 yards or beyond 20yards then their are different shotshells for that. He can use a Slugshot to neutralize the threat. heck Slugs can be utilized at even closed range but i would not recommend that given it's penetrating power at close range. Buckshot or a Birdshot shotshell are adequate to neutralize a threat in a confined space. As far as injuring a relative or family member is concerned then that can happen with even a Pistol or a Handgun, at close range the round will ricochet from walls or even ground, this am speaking from personal experience when first time in 3 decades a pistol went off in my drawing room due to my father's unintentional mistake, the round ricochet over tiles & hit the wall......

for a pure HD point of view Shotgun is perfect weapon as variety of shells can be deployed, we can use the non-lethal shells available in market to take down the threat

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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Brother if he is shooting at a long range say at 60 yards or beyond 20yards then their are different shotshells for that. He can use a Slugshot to neutralize the threat. heck Slugs can be utilized at even closed range but i would not recommend that given it's penetrating power at close range. Buckshot or a Birdshot shotshell are adequate to neutralize a threat in a confined space. As far as injuring a relative or family member is concerned then that can happen with even a Pistol or a Handgun, at close range the round will ricochet from walls or even ground, this am speaking from personal experience when first time in 3 decades a pistol went off in my drawing room due to my father's unintentional mistake, the round ricochet over tiles & hit the wall......
> 
> for a pure HD point of view Shotgun is perfect weapon as variety of shells can be deployed, we can use the non-lethal shells available in market to take down the threat


Birather, there are no 60 yard line in Home defence you can find your self in tight spaces. CQB bro. Shotguns with non-lethal shells pfffft.
If that so you can buy a Battle Rifle with Simunations perfect for Home Defence.

If, he is new to gun world first he needs to learn Gun Safety rules. He id better off without guns.


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## Amaa'n

JohnWick007 said:


> What models does Daudsons' offer and what are the prices?


already i have shared the pictures, you can go over the website & download the brochure....
when you buy from them they will give you two barrels, one is with rifiling & it can fire slug round which is for a bit of long range (upto 100 yards).....
the basic model is for 35k ....& the one which is tacticool look retails at 75k....thats the price i was quoted not too long ago

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## Mentee

Hey guys he's just looking for a handgun why don't you freaking recommend him a cost effective, efficient and up to the mark Pakistani specimen? The daud sons, saves the country dollars?

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## Amaa'n

Metal 0-1 said:


> Birather, there are no 60 yard line in Home defence you can find your self in tight spaces. CQB bro.


in that case 9mm is pointless, you will need to discharge atleast 5-8 rounds to knock down the assailant, and during that time the assailant will continue to fire back at you....
Here is a spread pattern from a birdshot @ 15yards if he is going to injure his family member at this range he shouldn't be carrying a weapon....

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## Metal 0-1

Mentee said:


> Hey guys he's just looking for a handgun why don't you freaking recommend him a cost effective, efficient and up to the mark Pakistani specimen? The daud sons, saves the country dollars?


There are several Gun Makers but reliability is the main issue. Locally made polymer chassis pistol dont buy them we don't have good standards for them. Go for quality pistol dude spend some extra dollars.



Foxtrot Alpha said:


> in that case 9mm is pointless, you will need to discharge atleast 5-8 rounds to knock down the assailant, and during that time the assailant will continue to fire back at you....
> Here is a spread pattern from a birdshot @ 15yards if he is going to injure his family member at this range he shouldn't be carrying a weapon....


You keep your Non-lethal shells shotgun I keep my hand gun.


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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> in that case 9mm is pointless, you will need to discharge atleast 5-8 rounds to knock down the assailant, and during that time the assailant will continue to fire back at you....
> Here is a spread pattern from a birdshot @ 15yards if he is going to injure his family member at this range he shouldn't be carrying a weapon....


What about penetration.


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## Amaa'n

Mentee said:


> Hey guys he's just looking for a handgun why don't you freaking recommend him a cost effective, efficient and up to the mark Pakistani specimen? The daud sons, saves the country dollars?


No, you cannot just wake up & recommend a weapon to someone, it always depend on the requirement. 

I own M4A1 to AK74, Vepr Molot to Tokarev TT.....each has it's own merits & demerits, one just can not fit all in same situation ..... He has asked for a Home Defence weapon then nothing beats the Shotgun for a HD situation.....

If he says i want to carry it in car for occasional trips, i will recommend him a different weapon since his requirements changed...Then I cannot ask him to go & guy a Chinese TOkarev 9mm, since his hands may be large....TT has a very thin grip....i cannot recommend him a Beretta if his hands are small....he will have to visit the shop and see how the Pistol fits in his hand.....



Metal 0-1 said:


> Birather, there are no 60 yard line in Home defence you can find your self in tight spaces. CQB bro. Shotguns with non-lethal shells pfffft.
> If that so you can buy a Battle Rifle with Simunations perfect for Home Defence.
> 
> If, he is new to gun world first he needs to learn Gun Safety rules. He id better off without guns.


Where will he buy simunations from in Pakistan?

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## Mentee

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> No, you cannot just wake up & recommend a weapon to someone, it always depend on the requirement.
> 
> I own M4A1 to AK74, Vepr Molot to Tokarev TT.....each has it's own merits & demerits, one just can not fit all in same situation ..... He has asked for a Home Defence weapon then nothing beats the Shotgun for a HD situation.....
> 
> If he says i want to carry it in car for occasional trips, i will recommend him a different weapon since his requirements changed...Then I cannot ask him to go & guy a Chinese TOkarev 9mm, since his hands may be large....TT has a very thin grip....i cannot recommend him a Beretta if his hands are small....he will have to visit the shop and see how the Pistol fits in his hand.....



I believe he wanted something lil for house defence


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## Amaa'n

Brass Knuckles said:


> No. It's difficult to get the license of AK or other rifles. Most of the people have pistols and 12 bore guns


Wrong, you can own both, licenses are easy to get for both



Metal 0-1 said:


> What about penetration.


depends on range, buy ask those who have been shot by Birdshot....they will be callingout their moths all night long while removing those little metal bbs ....It does not have that much penetrating power since it is used to shot birds? the reason they call it birdshot?

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## Mentee

Metal 0-1 said:


> There are several Gun Makers but reliability is the main issue. Locally made polymer chassis pistol dont buy them we don't have good standards for them. Go for quality pistol dude spend some extra dollars.



This is the reason I recommended daud sons. However others are also not lagging behind. They make pretty impressive a+ clones at those cnc machines


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## Mentee

Brass Knuckles said:


> Anyone can buy a Kalashnikov? Mtlab if puray 200 million Pakistanis ka dil karay to la sktay hain?



Minus the convicts and people specifically barred from having one for official reasons


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## Mentee

Brass Knuckles said:


> Convicts to thoray say hon ga percentage wise. And who are barred?


Underage folks , lunatics etc


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## Mentee

Brass Knuckles said:


> Mtlab every full grown person with good chracter and dimaghi Tor par sihatmand can get license of Kalashnikov? Mujhay lgta tha sab ko nhi milta.



Pehlay sb ko nahi milta the sirf asar O rusookh valay logo ko ya Manhoos d.c apnay rishtay daaro m baant dyta tha phr logo nay Hal nikal Lia ab asaan hai. Thoray paysay lgty hain laikin legally Mil jaata hai

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## Amaa'n

Brass Knuckles said:


> Anyone can buy a Kalashnikov? Mtlab if puray 200 million Pakistanis ka dil karay to la sktay hain?


Yes, you can own Krinkov or AK74 & AR15 on a NPB license which are not difficult to come by....

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## CodeforFood

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> If it is solely for Home Defense where you are expected to engage the intruder at max 60yards, look no further & get yourself a *Shotgun*. With *Birdshot* (small grain for layman) you will neutralize the threat with a knock down effect, a shot to the leg with one Birdshot & the guy will be running back on his forearms. Also it has less chance of killing anyone in the vicinity of your home.....In Pakistan shooting some is veryyyy easy, getting away with a murder even in a self defence situation is troublesome & you do not want to go down that road.
> 
> Coming to second question that which one to get?
> 1) *Imported: *all lot of tacticool looking *turkish* semi auto shotguns are available in the market, retailing b/w 45- 65k. These get smuggled into the country via a Afghanistan. Visit this guys channel if you want to know aboutTUrkish models in Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from that there are many others but they are above 100k which doesn't justify the price.
> 
> 2)* Local: *look no further and get yourself a Pump Action shotgun by Daudsons, they are the only reliable manufacturer of weapons in Pakistan, even for a newbie. Someone who is new to firearms, i would advise to stay away from other manufacturers as i know all of the renowned ones personally. Daudons have simple pump action model which is good for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However if you want something tacticool then they have another variant of same shotgun with extra goodies.


How the hell is this a gun for new owners?



Metal 0-1 said:


> If you want to injure your family members yes go for shotguns.
> 
> 
> If you want to buy a pistol Give your self time on shooting range.They are very hard to shoot and handle sounds crazy.
> Local glocks are around 50k put Original smith and Wessons barrel in it you have yourself a good pistol.
> Go for PCC/Pistol Caliber Carbine Short size zero recoil minimum penetration.


in Pakistani environment any carbine is fine you don't need frag rounds. but for first time buyers i would just go with a full size or compact pistol like a glock 19 equivalent and practice with it. Want to stay away from shotguns and high velocity applications until one learns the basics of shooting (safety habits and all).
If you are not a good shooter (comes with practice) that no weapon is useful, because it is like going into a battle with one hand tied behind your back.


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## Amaa'n

CodeforFood said:


> How the hell is this a gun for new owners?
> 
> 
> in Pakistani environment any carbine is fine you don't need frag rounds. but for first time buyers i would just go with a full size or compact pistol like a glock 19 equivalent and practice with it. Want to stay away from shotguns and high velocity applications until one learns the basics of shooting (safety habits and all).
> If you are not a good shooter (comes with practice) that no weapon is useful, because it is like going into a battle with one hand tied behind your back.


tell me why not Shotgun?
and Why a handgun? with Handgun a shit to vital organ WILL land him in trouble with the law...it will be a murder or an attempted murder....hr will have to prove for years ir months that whatever he did it was in SD


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## MastanKhan

Old School said:


> It all depends on your experience. Don't buy if you never used a gun beyond a shooting range. You will get yourself killed. Intruders (or whatever you
> call them) are less forgiving to people with guns.



Hi,

Pakistani judge would say---" why did you not shoot him in the ANKLE---"

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## Philip the Arab

Buy a good 1911 clone chambered in .45 ACP or 9mm. Reliable gun, but also I assume can be found at a cheap price.

Why can't you kill someone invading your house in Pakistan? Retarded if you ask me.


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## BHarwana

Akdal MKA 1919 is also a good Turkish shot gun. It is fairly cheap than other imported one and very reliable for home security. I had one few years back but later exchanged it. But it is a good shot gun.


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## Philip the Arab

BHarwana said:


> Akdal MKA 1919 is also a good Turkish shot gun. It is fairly cheap than other imported one and very reliable for home security. I had one few years back but later exchanged it. But it is a good shot gun.


Can you kill someone if they invade your house? And why not?


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## BHarwana

Philip the Arab said:


> Can you kill someone if they invade your house? And why not?


If you have shot gun in your house use No 9 catrages as defence. It will not kill but make sure the invader is crippled and you can take control of situation and inform authorities. Plus No 9 gives a wider spread and you don't need to an expert marks man to get a hit.

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## Philip the Arab

BHarwana said:


> If you have shot gun in your house use No 9 catrages as defence. It will not kill but make sure the invader is crippled and you can take control of situation and inform authorities. Plus No 9 gives a wider spread and you don't need to an expert marks man to get a hit.


But say you shoot them with a 9mm and kill them and they are carrying a gun themselves. Would you be charged in court?


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## BHarwana

Philip the Arab said:


> But say you shoot them with a 9mm and kill them and they are carrying a gun themselves. Would you be charged in court?


I never said 9 mm I said Number 9 catrages which will not kill but cripple.

It will also help to take out multiple boogies in a single shot.


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## Philip the Arab

BHarwana said:


> I never said 9 mm I said Number 9 catrages which will not kill but cripple.
> 
> It will also help to take out multiple boogies in a single shot.


I know mate just saying hypothetically a man has a 9mm pistol and kills someone invading that has a gun. What would happen to the person and what they go to prison?


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## BHarwana

Philip the Arab said:


> I know mate just saying hypothetically a man has a 9mm pistol and kills someone invading that has a gun. What would happen to the person and what they go to prison?


Actually you fail to understand the concept of weapon for home defence. It is a symbol of deterance. To keep the invader at bay. If you shoot someone you will go to jail initially but will have to prove your innocence in trail.

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## Philip the Arab

BHarwana said:


> Actually you fail to understand the concept of weapon for home defence. It is a symbol of deterance. To keep the invader at bay. If you shoot someone you will go to jail initially but will have to prove your innocence in trail.


Who knows? I'm not letting myself be killed by an armed person that is incapacitated but not dead. If I see something that looks like a gun I'm blasting. Rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

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## CodeforFood

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> tell me why not Shotgun?
> and Why a handgun? with Handgun a shit to vital organ WILL land him in trouble with the law...it will be a murder or an attempted murder....hr will have to prove for years ir months that whatever he did it was in SD


Why would it be an murder if someone is breaking in to your home. A handgun is small relatively simple and small enough to maneuver. If you are thinking penetration those double/triple buckshot can seriously penetrate too and it will be a pickle to handle a situation where you have collateral damage.
Beside all it is easier to learn and take it with you to a range and practice with it and learn good shooting habits. Even birdshot can penetrate quite a bit. you hit someone with it around 5 to 10 yard distance the threat will be equally dead as with a pistol or a rifle.
it will be harder to keep a loaded shotgun locked away safely from your kids. Pistol you can buy a small safe and keep it away from people who does not need to handle it.



BHarwana said:


> I never said 9 mm I said Number 9 catrages which will not kill but cripple.
> 
> It will also help to take out multiple boogies in a single shot.


If you cripple someone and if he/she is still armed you have escalated the situation to no point of return. You took the shot there is no returning from that whether you are crippling or killing.



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Pakistani judge would say---" why did you not shoot him in the ANKLE---"


And that would be a stupid judge in my opinion. If someone is breaking in to your home and has a weapon in hand then you would be silly to just cripple or shoot him in the ankle. You would want to end that fight as quickly as it can be possible. If someone breaks in and he/she does not have a weapon, in most cases just showing the weapon should be enough to intimidate unless you are dealing with a craziest of them all.


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## Amaa'n

Philip the Arab said:


> Can you kill someone if they invade your house? And why not?


You can, you can kill someone in good will if you see someone jumping into your neighbors house...the problem is our System....proving everything in the court of Law is hectic .....



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Pakistani judge would say---" why did you not shoot him in the ANKLE---"





CodeforFood said:


> Why would it be an murder if someone is breaking in to your home. A handgun is small relatively simple and small enough to maneuver. If you are thinking penetration those double/triple buckshot can seriously penetrate too and it will be a pickle to handle a situation where you have collateral damage.
> Beside all it is easier to learn and take it with you to a range and practice with it and learn good shooting habits. Even birdshot can penetrate quite a bit. you hit someone with it around 5 to 10 yard distance the threat will be equally dead as with a pistol or a rifle.
> it will be harder to keep a loaded shotgun locked away safely from your kids. Pistol you can buy a small safe and keep it away from people who does not need to handle it.
> 
> 
> If you cripple someone and if he/she is still armed you have escalated the situation to no point of return. You took the shot there is no returning from that whether you are crippling or killing.
> 
> 
> And that would be a stupid judge in my opinion. If someone is breaking in to your home and has a weapon in hand then you would be silly to just cripple or shoot him in the ankle. You would want to end that fight as quickly as it can be possible. If someone breaks in and he/she does not have a weapon, in most cases just showing the weapon should be enough to intimidate unless you are dealing with a craziest of them all.


What Mastan Khan sir have said is what I am trying to say since yesterday....with pistol you have to shoot the assailant in the critical area / chest region to neutralize the threat & that too with multiple shots....if the guy dies on your property it is a murder, it gets really hard to prove your innocence in court where a murder is involved , speaking from experience.

In my first post i had recommended Shotgun & have said that you shoot the guy & attacker will be running back on his forearms since birdshot or buckshot will cripple the mofo ....Bird shot to even torso will neutralize the threat & allow him to run away alive.....

We want attacker to run away, not die on our property or engage him in a fire fight within the premises

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## Thorough Pro

Now that you have a million different recommendations, I think you can easily make up your mind on what is best for "you" as recommended by people who don't anything about you, your physique or your needs.






JohnWick007 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> So I'm new to the Pakistani gun market and was wondering which gun I should choose for a home defence scenario.
> 
> I have little knowledge of the local gun market except for the fact that there is an import ban on guns. So I was wondering what excatly is the cost of
> i) Imported weapons (Pistols or Shotguns)
> ii) Locally made clones
> iii) Any other options?
> 
> Also what would be a more reliable weapon for personal defence, a handgun or a shotgun?
> And what kind of bullet should one choose?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your thoughtful input.


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## CodeforFood

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> You can, you can kill someone in good will if you see someone jumping into your neighbors house...the problem is our System....proving everything in the court of Law is hectic .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Mastan Khan sir have said is what I am trying to say since yesterday....with pistol you have to shoot the assailant in the critical area / chest region to neutralize the threat & that too with multiple shots....if the guy dies on your property it is a murder, it gets really hard to prove your innocence in court where a murder is involved , speaking from experience.
> 
> In my first post i had recommended Shotgun & have said that you shoot the guy & attacker will be running back on his forearms since birdshot or buckshot will cripple the mofo ....Bird shot to even torso will neutralize the threat & allow him to run away alive.....
> 
> We want attacker to run away, not die on our property or engage him in a fire fight within the premises


I am not denying the utility of shotgun as a home defense firearm . I thought we are talking about a first gun for a new owner.


Foxtrot Alpha said:


> You can, you can kill someone in good will if you see someone jumping into your neighbors house...the problem is our System....proving everything in the court of Law is hectic .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Mastan Khan sir have said is what I am trying to say since yesterday....with pistol you have to shoot the assailant in the critical area / chest region to neutralize the threat & that too with multiple shots....if the guy dies on your property it is a murder, it gets really hard to prove your innocence in court where a murder is involved , speaking from experience.
> 
> In my first post i had recommended Shotgun & have said that you shoot the guy & attacker will be running back on his forearms since birdshot or buckshot will cripple the mofo ....Bird shot to even torso will neutralize the threat & allow him to run away alive.....
> 
> We want attacker to run away, not die on our property or engage him in a fire fight within the premises


I am not denying the utility and usefulness of a shotgun in home defense scenario. I thought we were talking a gun for people who are new to firearms.

Easy to meneuver
take it easily with you in different places
more diversity of use
take it to ranges more easily.
I don't want to continue beating the topic. I don't doubt the utility of shotgun, I have one as well.

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## El Sidd

Brass Knuckles said:


> Koi mashwra inko do gun ka



inko mahwaray ki nahi aqal ki zarorat hai


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## El Sidd

Brass Knuckles said:


> Guns dangerous hoti ha isliye? Is forum walon ki comments parh ka lgta ha inki gun shops hain.



ye sab bare hokar sultan rahi banege. and he was dangerous


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## CodeforFood

El Sidd said:


> ye sab bare hokar sultan rahi banege. and he was dangerous


Zaroori nahin hai bhai, kuch logon ne sports and activity ke liye bhi rakhi hoti haen  Mine or mostly for competing, hunting, yes I do have a pistol with carry permit which I carry sometimes if I go to areas that are not safe. Before getting all of them I made it a point as a responsible citizen to go and get some basic gun handling training and instill (or tried to) some safety habits with practice.


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## El Sidd

CodeforFood said:


> Zaroori nahin hai bhai, kuch logon ne sports and activity ke liye bhi rakhi hoti haen  Mine or mostly for competing, hunting, yes I do have a pistol with carry permit which I carry sometimes if I go to areas that are not safe. Before getting all of them I made it a point as a responsible citizen to go and get some basic gun handling training and instill (or tried to) some safety habits with practice.



i think you been in America for too long now. 

edday aap mughal raj ke shikaari



Brass Knuckles said:


> He used to fight without weapons in most of the films or with danda. Aap sultan Rahi ki films daikhtay thay



nahi me film nahi dekhta per film mujhe dekhti thi... Punjab gaya to use esa nahi paya jesa dikhaya jata hai filmon me. 

like there were no billi mujras or local village riots anywhere. 

so i became anti film industry for lying to me


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## CodeforFood

El Sidd said:


> i think you been in America for too long now.
> 
> edday aap mughal raj ke shikaari
> 
> 
> 
> nahi me film nahi dekhta per film mujhe dekhti thi... Punjab gaya to use esa nahi paya jesa dikhaya jata hai filmon me.
> 
> like there were no billi mujras or local village riots anywhere.
> 
> so i became anti film industry for lying to me


It is true I have been in the states for quite sometime and adopted some of the good values(that i think are good), but also kept intact with my culture of my origin. On the topic, I still think we do hunting in Pakistan still, its just that not everyone has accessibility as one could/would in usa.
From the home defense standpoint, I have a full size pistol that can be snapped to my body very quickly and also have a shotgun with mostly number 6 or 7 load. I still consider my self an enthusiast not a professional so like everyone I have an opinion, but it should be taken with the consideration that my opinion is not professionally graded


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## El Sidd

CodeforFood said:


> It is true I have been in the states for quite sometime and adopted some of the good values(that i think are good), but also kept intact with my culture of my origin. On the topic, I still think we do hunting in Pakistan still, its just that not everyone has accessibility as one could/would in usa.
> From the home defense standpoint, I have a full size pistol that can be snapped to my body very quickly and also have a shotgun with mostly number 6 or 7 load. I still consider my self an enthusiast not a professional so like everyone I have an opinion, but it should be taken with the consideration that my opinion is not professionally graded



People with guns don't have opinions. They have a criminal record

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## CodeforFood

El Sidd said:


> People with guns don't have opinions. They have a criminal record


So to negate a theory all you need is one counter scenario... Here I am 
Lets not derail this thread. I think I am partly guilty in doing so here...


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## El Sidd

CodeforFood said:


> So to negate a theory all you need is one counter scenario... Here I am



Yeah lets sue you for giving your neighbours sleepless nights after showing off your weapon which resulted in their home run business collapsing and rise in domestic violence eventually leading to alcoholism and a fatal road accident involving bus taking families to the circus which led to riots and gang violence.

so i guess no guns for you then


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## Malik Alpha

Philip the Arab said:


> Buy a good 1911 clone chambered in .45 ACP or 9mm. Reliable gun, but also I assume can be found at a cheap price.
> 
> Why can't you kill someone invading your house in Pakistan? Retarded if you ask me.


We can. My cousin killed a robber around a year ago from his Taurus PT92 in Pakistan but police took the credit because it might ended up bad for my cousin. Saved him enemity and proceedings from gov.

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## CodeforFood

El Sidd said:


> Yeah lets sue you for giving your neighbours sleepless nights after showing off your weapon which resulted in their home run business collapsing and rise in domestic violence eventually leading to alcoholism and a fatal road accident involving bus taking families to the circus which led to riots and gang violence.
> 
> so i guess no guns for you then


This is a very strange way to come to the conclusion you came to. Why would i show my firearm (not weapon) to my neighbor and what scenario are you thinking?


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## El Sidd

CodeforFood said:


> This is a very strange way to come to the conclusion you came to. Why would i show my firearm (not weapon) to my neighbor and what scenario are you thinking?



you asked for a random scenario.

here is another one.

move to bani gala next to PM Khan.


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## Cinder

Pepsi Cola said:


> AK is so boring, all terrorists have it. I think he needs something special.


Yes. All he needs is a rifle that will look KoooL.


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## El Sidd

Brass Knuckles said:


> PDF pa numaish sa bhi hoskta ha?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247922677316190209



Yes
Cyber crime laws prohibit any such display in interest of Public Safety.


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## El Sidd

Brass Knuckles said:


> PDF walay Don bannay kal liye numaish nhi krtsy isliye kuch nhi hoga. He was posing with guns



or you can say these privileges are only for the selected trolls


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## CodeforFood

Brass Knuckles said:


> PDF walay Don bannay kal liye numaish nhi krtsy isliye kuch nhi hoga. He was posing with guns


His intent was to show himself as don. If i ever posted my pics they have been mostly in the thread where it was relevant. If the law is to not post pictures of firearms, swords or archery then that is a really silly law.


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## CrazyZ




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## Trango Towers

JohnWick007 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> So I'm new to the Pakistani gun market and was wondering which gun I should choose for a home defence scenario.
> 
> I have little knowledge of the local gun market except for the fact that there is an import ban on guns. So I was wondering what excatly is the cost of
> i) Imported weapons (Pistols or Shotguns)
> ii) Locally made clones
> iii) Any other options?
> 
> Also what would be a more reliable weapon for personal defence, a handgun or a shotgun?
> And what kind of bullet should one choose?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your thoughtful input.


Do u have a licence? As no licences are being issued. So I am confused how you will buy. Illegal ??


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## CrazyZ

Metal 0-1 said:


> Despite of their small size they are hard to use..
> 
> 
> Not suitable. Shotguns are not used in situations where bad guys and good guys are mixed up. Totally shit.
> 
> 
> I personally recommend Pistol Caliber Carbines or SMGs if you are good shooter go for quality 9mm pistol.
> or you want expertise this video is your guide. A former Navy SEAL will take you through Every gun you can own and also scenarios which can occur.


Long guns can not be concealed or used in close quarters as easily. For general purpose self defense....pistols are the best.

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## El Sidd

CrazyZ said:


> Long guns can not be concealed or used in close quarters as easily. For general purpose self defense....pistols are the best.



jepp.

avatar named Crazy talking about guns.

what can possibly go wrong


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## Metal 0-1

CrazyZ said:


> Long guns can not be concealed or used in close quarters as easily. For general purpose self defense....pistols are the best.


Buddy he is talking about home defense not conceal carry. I think you didn't watched the video. He(New Gun Owner) needs range time and first of all Firearms safety rules. Or he is better off without gun.


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## CodeforFood

Metal 0-1 said:


> Buddy he is talking about home defense not conceal carry. I think you didn't watched the video. He(New Gun Owner) needs range time and first of all Firearms safety rules. Or he is better off without gun.


For new gun owner a firearm that he can with him for practice easily and applicable in multiple scenarios would be more effective, hence the pistol.


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## WarKa DaNG

Go for the Zigana


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## R Wing

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Wrong, you can own both, licenses are easy to get for both
> 
> 
> depends on range, buy ask those who have been shot by Birdshot....they will be callingout their moths all night long while removing those little metal bbs ....It does not have that much penetrating power since it is used to shot birds? the reason they call it birdshot?



Can you please outline the exact procedure for getting a license for an AR style local clone bought legally from one of the registered factories in Pakistan? Very grateful. 

I did not know licenses were easy to get.


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## JohnWick007

Trango Towers said:


> Do u have a licence? As no licences are being issued. So I am confused how you will buy. Illegal ??


I'm pretty sure Licences have opened up again for NPB guns.



WarKa DaNG said:


> Go for the Zigana


Local copy or the imported ones?
What would be the price point for different imported models?


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## Trango Towers

JohnWick007 said:


> I'm pretty sure Licences have opened up again for NPB guns.
> 
> 
> Local copy or the imported ones?
> What would be the price point for different imported models?


No bhai all licences are closed and have been for last 6 years. I know I am in pakistan


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## CodeforFood

Trango Towers said:


> No bhai all licences are closed and have been for last 6 years. I know I am in pakistan


Lo gee ker lao gal. Itni lambi dengein logon ke sunnay ko milieu aur Yeh bhai license le nain sakte...


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## Trango Towers

CodeforFood said:


> Lo gee ker lao gal. Itni lambi dengein logon ke sunnay ko milieu aur Yeh bhai license le nain sakte...


Mate I dont pay bribes and break the law. People talk a good talk then they swear at those that are corrupt. At least I have morals. Others I cant say anything for.

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## WarKa DaNG

JohnWick007 said:


> Local copy or the imported ones?
> What would be the price point for different imported models?


Imported ones can go far as 120k as for the local one you can buy it from the factories on kohat road, Peshawar for about 30k(also available in 18k but they use cheap metals)


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## JohnWick007

Trango Towers said:


> No bhai all licences are closed and have been for last 6 years. I know I am in pakistan


Licences had been closed. Agreed. But they recently opened again (For NPB as far as I know). Granted it is hard to get a license without a source or Bribes but not impossible....

There are a number of tutorials on youtube on how you can apply for a valid license today.



Trango Towers said:


> No bhai all licences are closed and have been for last 6 years. I know I am in pakistan


https://www.dawn.com/news/1518245/sindh-government-lifts-ban-on-issuance-of-arms-licences

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## Waiting

Licenses are open for all categories , Just one restriction, applicant must be tax payer
Copies/clone are very good, I use one clone and fired about 500 rounds without fail. It is good to use clone as u cannot use original bullets and Darra made bullets cannot be used in original pistol. I use clone pistol with Darra made bullets. Origin one is safe and without wear n tear


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## CodeforFood

CodeforFood said:


> His intent was to show himself as don. If i ever posted my pics they have been mostly in the thread where it was relevant. If the law is to not post pictures of firearms, swords or archery then that is a really silly law.


cz75(cee_zed_pichatar) or aim_sight. Medan loot lya


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## MORTICE

@JohnWick007 I want to say that you should understand the responsibility if you dare to buy a gun. For a beginner, your best bet is to buy a small-caliber pistol. You need to consult with a professional from a certified gun store. I also got my first gun for self-defense, and now I'm buying something more serious http://ballachy.com. Also, the best option is to go to the shooting range and start training so you can be confident in your skills. Imported weapons are often more technologically advanced and of higher quality, but I do not think you would be sorry to spend more money but still buy better quality. Don't forget about your safety and take care of yourself!


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## CodeforFood

MORTICE said:


> @JohnWick007 I want to say that you should understand the responsibility if you dare to buy a gun. For a beginner, your best bet is to buy a small-caliber pistol. You need to consult with a professional from a certified gun store. I also got my first gun for self-defense, and now I'm buying something more serious http://ballachy.com. Also, the best option is to go to the shooting range and start training so you can be confident in your skills. Imported weapons are often more technologically advanced and of higher quality, but I do not think you would be sorry to spend more money but still buy better quality. Don't forget about your safety and take care of yourself!


Are Sarsilmaz brand firearm available in Pakistan. Recently I tried SAR 9 handgun. I loved the way it shot. I would think if available it is an excellent buy.

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## arjunk

Metal 0-1 said:


> Yup, listen to this guy Call the police put your cellphone on speaker and slide it across your room. Your call is on recording. Most importantly you have your both hands free.


Firstly, it's better to call a relative/friend and they will call the police as well as arrange for other help. It's good to have an emergency SOS set up on your phone for this.

The police are useless (at least in Karachi). My experience with their response time does not inspire confidence at all. Thus my advice is, if someone breaks into your home, just shoot the fuck3r without hesitation. Their life is worth nothing once they break into your house.

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