# The J-20 SUCCESSFULLY conducts first flight!!



## cross1993

J20 flight begins...

Reactions: Like Like:
25


----------



## Akasa

Video? Picture? Article?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## pzkilo

Long live China~~~

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## farhan_9909

link plzz.


----------



## monitor

Where is the video ? cannot wait to see it


----------



## dingyibvs

It took off at 12:50 pm, looked like it didn't use afterburners for the takeoff. It flew at a slow speed, accompanied by a J-10 which was filming it. It made a couple of passes over the airfield. Its wing shape looks similar to some drawings on the internet, and it looks a quite a bit longer than the J-10. It landed at 1:08 pm Beijing time, and the crowd(both inside and outside of the airfield) lit firecrackers to celebrate!

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## stax

China's military forum is celebrating now! J20 first flight is successful.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Akasa

These minutes changed the balance of power in East Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## casual

China sure knows how to put on a show for Mr. Gates

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Akasa

Time to pop a few coffee beans, sit down, and start waiting for the video

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dingyibvs

casual said:


> China sure knows how to put on a show for Mr. Gates



Lol, I hope they invited him.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dingyibvs

Pic:

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## farhan_9909

Congratulation to china.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dingyibvs

More:

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## EagleEyes



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## below_freezing

Long live the People's Republic of China! My beautiful homeland, how far you've come!

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*J-20 with J-10*






---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## monitor

casual said:


> China sure knows how to put on a show for Mr. Gates



Nice surprise gift for gates .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*Again, this is the third consecutive year China has done something big on January 11th!
*

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## casual

Sri Lankan said:


> *Again, this is the third consecutive year China has done something big on January 11th!
> *


what did they do before?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Areesh

Superb superb work guys. Great work. Accept the congratz from a Pakistani friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## farhan_9909

plzz post the video 

waiting 
waiting and waiting

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pzkilo

casual said:


> what did they do before?



Last year: we tested successfully chinese version NMD, we called it CNMD.

The year before last year: we shoot down our own satellite.



Somebody correct me plz if I m wrong.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## cera

What a coincidence! January 11 is China's showing muscle day!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Areesh

cera said:


> What a coincidence! January 11 is China's showing muscle day!



It is the day on which China shows that it deserves to be consider as a super power and those who don't consider it as super power are fools.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## below_freezing

Areesh said:


> It is the day on which China shows that it deserves to be consider as a super power and those who don't consider it as super power are fools.



don't underestimate the US. the J-20 is not nearly enough. we need at least 1000 J-20s, 10000 nuclear missiles, 10 carriers and 200 nuclear submarines for minimal deterrance against the US. after all those who underestimate the US are doomed to the trashbin of history!

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*Pilot's name is Li Gang*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## casual

Sri Lankan said:


>



obvious photoshop is obvious


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*CONGRATULATION CHINA!!!!*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cera

I can imagine how many people are bursting in tears now... highest salute to those people who worked days and nights for the birth of this powerful fighter jet!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Areesh

Sri Lankan said:


> *Pilot's name is Li Gang*



Lucky guy. We all are jealous of him.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Akasa

Sri Lankan said:


>



Why the hell is the J-10 in yellow primer?

A message to the J-10: "It's time to get out of your yellow pajamas, because your successor has already done so"

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## qwerrty

c'mon, no need to post fake PS. can't you tell?


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## chinautumn

Areesh said:


> It is the day on which China shows that it deserves to be consider as a super power and those who don't consider it as super power are fools.



It's just a test flight and we don't know any technical capabilities about J20.How could china becomes superpower while we are still developing and not a advanced country yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*Chinese stealth fighter makes first test flight*

*A leading expert on the Chinese military says the country's prototype stealth fighter has made its first-known test flight.

Kanwa Asian Defense magazine editor Andrei Chang said the J-20 flew for about 15 minutes over an airfield in the southwestern city of Chengdu where it was spotted carrying out runway tests last week. Photos of the plane in flight were also posted on unofficial Chinese military websites.
*
*The test flight comes on the second day of a visit to China by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates. Chang and other analysts say the test's timing is apparently intended to send the message that Beijing is responding to calls from the U.S. and others to be more transparent about its defense modernization and future intentions.*

Chinese stealth fighter makes first test flight

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## scuthan

does anyone know why the hatch at the underbelly kept open during the flight?


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*Look This.......*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## monitor

Dont Panic: Chinas New Stealth Jet Takes to the Air (Maybe)
By David Axe January 10, 2011 | 2:27 pm | Categories: China 


Two weeks after grainy photos proved the existence of Chinas first stealth fighter, the Chengdu J-20 might have just flown for the first time. The debut flight over southwest China, possibly depicted in the photo above, marks the beginning of a likely long and difficult testing phase for the large, angular airplane.

The photo could be a fake. Even if it is, the J-20s debut flight is surely imminent. A planned take-off last week was scrubbed due to bad weather.

In any event, it could be a decade or more before J-20s begin to roll out of Chinese factories in meaningful numbers. But that doesnt mean pundits, analysts and hawkish politicians arent already wringing their hands and warning of impending doom. Thats the same doom, it should be noted, that some observers predicted when Russias T-50 stealth prototype made its first flight a year ago.

In truth, any alarm over the J-20 is premature  note the Pentagons cool indifference. Right now, no one outside of the Chinese government knows what the J-20 is for, or what its capable of. The best anyone can do is guess, based on assumptions derived from a handful of digital snapshots. Those guesses, and their implications, are the subject of my latest article for The Diplomat.

Based on the J-20s apparent size  around 70 feet from nose to tail, compared to just 60 feet for the F-22 Raptor  Defense Technology International editor Bill Sweetman proposed that the J-20 is a bomber as much as, if not more than, a fighter. The Chinese jet has perhaps lower super-cruise performance and agility than an F-22, but with larger weapon bays and more fuel, Sweetman added. Super-cruise is the ability to travel long distances at supersonic speed, something only the F-22 can really do, at the moment.

Why would China need or want a short-range stealth aircraft? Sweetman continued. Any targets with defenses that call for that [stealth and speed] capability are a long way from the mainland. Realistically, those targets could include Indian air defenses, Taiwanese airfields and U.S. Navy warships cruising the South China Sea.

It would make sense for Beijing to invest in a new, stealthy fighter-bomber. The Peoples Liberation Army Air Force is already reasonably well-equipped with fresh new J-10 and J-11 fighters, rough equivalents of the F-16 and F-15, respectively. But the PLAAFs main fighter-bomber is the older JH-7, a mediocre performer mostly incapable of launching modern guided weapons  and certainly doomed in the face of modern air defenses.

Taking the opposing view, Carlo Kopp and Peter Goon, partners in the Air Power Australia think-tank, argue that the J-20 is a fighter more than a bomber. Since they do not dispute the J-20s apparent large size, they assume the Chinese plane is optimized for fast, high-altitude interception using long-range missiles, as opposed to close-range dogfighting. Kopp and Goon see waves of J-20s pounding through U.S., Taiwanese and allied defenses to target the vital support planes  E-3 AWACS, Rivet Joint spy planes, EC-130 radar jammers, etc.  that orbit behind the battle-lines.

By taking down these support forces, the J-20 could significantly complicate if not close down air operations for the U.S. in the Pacific. And forget using Navy F/A-18E/F Super Hornets or Air Force F-35A Joint Strike Fighters to stop the J-20s. Both American jets are aerodynamically and kinematically quite inferior to the Chinese stealth fighter, Kopp and Goon wrote.

Kopp and Goon have long advocated more F-22s as the only way to counter new Russian and Chinese fighters. Taking up this line, retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney advocated Congress insert funding for 12 F-22s into the 2011 budget and keep buying the $150-million-a-copy jet indefinitely.

The Pentagon has ignored this advice, sticking with the planned total of just 187 Raptors and planning for an eventual purchase of more than 2,000 smaller, hopefully cheaper F-35s.

In doing so, the U.S. military brass seems to recognize several important truths. First, for all its apparent design strengths as a bomber or a fighter, the J-20 seems to rely on imported Russian engines  just as many other Chinese jets do. That gives Russia effective veto power over the J-20s use in combat. All Moscow has to do is shut down the supply and support of engines to ground the J-20 and indeed most of the PLAAF.

Secondly, there are lots of ways to shoot down or otherwise disable Chinese fighters. Counting just American forces, there are: Air Force F-15s, F-16s, F-22s and (soon) F-35s; Navy and Marine F/A-18s and F-35s; Navy Aegis destroyers and cruisers; and Army surface-to-air missiles. But in a major shooting war, the Navy and Air Force wouldnt wait for J-20s or other Chinese fighters to even take off. Cruise-missile-armed submarines and bombers would pound Chinese airfields; the Air Forces would take down Chinese satellites and thus blind PLAAF planners; American cyber-attackers could disable Beijings command networks.

Of course, China could reverse any of these tactics and use them against the U.S. and its allies. But the point stands: any Pacific shooting war would be a much more complex (and awful) affair than a simple showdown between jet fighters. The J-20 alone could not win that war any more than the F-22 could. Arguably, even fighting the war in the first place would represent a major defeat for the U.S., China and the whole world.

A little context helps explain why the Pentagon remains calm over the whole J-20 issue  and everyone else should, too. We still dont know what the J-20 really is, and how it might eventually, subtly shape the Pacific balance of power. All we can do now is wait, watch and keep working on our own fighters  all without panicking or spending ourselves into oblivion.

Photo: Chinese Internet; via Flightglobal.com


----------



## cross1993

Sri Lankan said:


> *Pilot's name is Li Gang*




*Li Gang* &#26446;&#21018;&#65311; lol....

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cera

About Jan 11, here is the link I posted here on 1/4/2011

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/87472-will-china-have-another-surprise-jan-11-year.html


----------



## cross1993

Delete.Delete.


----------



## Areesh

chinautumn said:


> It's just a test flight and we don't know any technical capabilities about J20.How could china becomes superpower while we are still developing and not a advanced country yet.



Test flight of a fifth generation stealth AC isn't no joke and that too in such short span of time. The pace of this J-20 program is superb. You have neighbors around you who can't make a proper fourth generation AC's but proudly claim themselves to be a super power. So having all the economic strength and now with this J-20 test flight you deserve to be call as a super power.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*many firecrackers!*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CardSharp

cross1993 said:


> *Li Gang* &#26446;&#21018;&#65311; lol....



Don't you know who Sri Lankan's dad is?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

cross1993 said:


> *Li Gang* &#26446;&#21018;&#65311; lol....



LOL!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fallstuff

Over 600 people on the Chinese forum today !! And keep going up !!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cross1993

Delete...Delete...


----------



## fatman17

Monday, January 10, 2011

*IT FLIES! J-20 takes first public flight in Chengdu!* 

In a symbolic, if unofficial salute to China's official guest, US Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, the J-20 Stealth Fighter makes it's first public flight in front of the cameras. Acting as a chase plane is a two seater J-10S.

check China-Defense Forum for the latest discussions.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Very gelievable.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Melano

cross1993 said:


> *Li Gang* &#26446;&#21018;&#65311; lol....



&#35797;&#39134;&#38498;&#31354;&#20891;&#26576;&#35797;&#39134;&#22242;&#39134;&#34892;&#22823;&#38431;&#22823;&#38431;&#38271;&#26446;&#22269;&#24681;&#65292;&#35835;&#24555;&#20102;&#23601;&#26159;&#26446;&#21018;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## aimarraul

&#23562;&#37325;&#31302;&#26031;&#26519;&#30340;&#20064;&#20439;&#65292;&#19981;&#35201;&#21457;&#36825;&#20123;&#19981;&#38597;&#30340;&#22270;&#29255;

xinhua:???20??????_????_???

globaltimes:???-20???? ????????(??)_??_???

ifeng:&#232;&#181;&#8222;&#232;&#174;&#175;&#233;&#166;&#8211;&#233;&#161;&#181;_&#229;&#8225;&#164;&#229;&#8225;&#176;&#231;&#189;&#8216;

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ao333

There had been significantly fewer Vietnamese and Indian trolls on J-20 threads than I anticipated.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## monitor

fallstuff said:


> Over 600 people on the Chinese forum today !! And keep going up !!



last time i have seen its 800+ !!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lankan Ranger

FoxNews.com - Chinese stealth fighter makes first test flight

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

ao333 said:


> There had been significantly fewer Vietnamese and Indian trolls on J-20 threads than I anticipated.



Don't jinx it dude.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## monitor

ao333 said:


> There had been significantly fewer Vietnamese and Indian trolls on J-20 threads than I anticipated.



May be they are just dumbfound.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## chinautumn

&#21035;&#21457;&#36825;&#31181;&#32654;&#23569;&#22899;&#28459;&#30011;&#36827;&#26469;&#65281;&#34987;&#21644;&#35856;&#20102;&#21543;&#65311;


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*Sec Def Gates is to meet with President Hu Jintao this afternoon, so it's like this:

"You want openness? There you go."
*

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cross1993

aimarraul said:


> &#23562;&#37325;&#31302;&#26031;&#26519;&#30340;&#20064;&#20439;&#65292;&#19981;&#35201;&#21457;&#36825;&#20123;&#19981;&#38597;&#30340;&#22270;&#29255;
> 
> xinhua:???20??????_????_???
> 
> globaltimes:???-20???? ????????(??)_??_???
> 
> ifeng:&#232;&#181;&#8222;&#232;&#174;&#175;&#233;&#166;&#8211;&#233;&#161;&#181;_&#229;&#8225;&#164;&#229;&#8225;&#176;&#231;&#189;&#8216;




Oh... I am sorry...
I don't know this is wrong, please forgive me

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## hembo

Congratulation to the chinese on this great achievement!!!

Your hard work has paid of. We all should try to emulate the chinese on their rapid growth in technology development.

Kudos once again.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## K^se

Of course the flight would take place with Robert Gates 2nd day visit.. 

-BTW Congrats, a Video would be appreciated.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 500

Wow, congrats. 3rd country in the world to fly stealth prototype. I wont be surprised if it will enter service before Russia.






Very sexy silhouette.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## hembo

This thread is on fire...

*Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 512 (15 members and 497 guests) *

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## chinautumn

cross1993 said:


> Oh... I am sorry...
> I don't know this is wrong, please forgive me



&#25226;&#20320;&#21069;&#38754;&#21457;&#30340;&#28459;&#30011;&#20063;&#21024;&#20102;&#21543;


----------



## CardSharp

K^se said:


> Of course the flight would take place with Robert Gates 2nd day visit..
> 
> -BTW Congrats, a Video would be appreciated.



Probably not solely for Gate's benefit. We Chinese have a thing about major events and numbers (remember the Olympics? 8:08 08/08/2008)

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## K^se

below_freezing said:


> don't underestimate the US. the J-20 is not nearly enough. we need at least 1000 J-20s, 10000 nuclear missiles, 10 carriers and 200 nuclear submarines for minimal deterrance against the US. after all those who underestimate the US are doomed to the trashbin of history!



-More like 2000 J-20s, the U.S is inducting 2,443 F-35 Lightning II Fighter Variant Fighter Jets, into their respectful 3 Armed forces, ARMY, NAVY and AirForce, because were phasing out the F-16 by 2020..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cera

Here is the recorded live report.

time zone: GMT+8

weather condition of ZUUU

Wind from the SW (220 degrees) at 4 MPH (4 KT)
Visibility greater than 7 mile(s)
Sky conditions mostly clear
Temperature 42 F (6 C)
Dew Point 23 F (-5 C)
Relative Humidity 45&#37;
Pressure (altimeter) 30.30 in. Hg (1026 hPa)

0936: one JL-8 double seated trainer, two J-10S double seated fighter appears. One of the J-10S loaded with some kind of pod
0938: the weather is great, refueling truck and electric power vehicle is next to J-20
0939: someone is on the reviewing stand preparing something. The engine of the J-20 is the silver color version 
0940: drag parachute loaded
1024: ground crew work started
1036: pilot shows up
1045: J-20 engine started 
1052: taxing to runway 
1053: high speed rolling test
1101: pilot left 
1103: loading drag parachute
1107: J-10S (the one with the pod) cockpit opens
1114: security guard shows up, we are on the tree again 
1116: both the J-10 and J-20 started their ground crew work. Fire truck shows up
1121: J-10S pilot onboard (the one with the pod)
1122: the VIP seat is still empty 
1126: J-10S engine started 
1128: some police car shows up
1130: J-10S #220 taxing to the runway 
1131: J-10S takes off
1135: two ambulance shows up
1145: J-10S landed
1208: B-4079 Boeing 737 landed
1221: cameraman on position 
1222: B-4020 Boeing 737 landed (these two 737 belongs to the government)
1229: J-20 engine testing
1233: J-10S takeoff again
1243: J-20 engine started and testing with the cockpit opened
1247: J-20 taxing to the runway
Jan 11th 12:50:16: J-20 TAKE OFF!!!!! with J-10S as chase plane
1252: it seems it took off without activated the after burne, nobody saw the flame from the nuzzle
125X: circuling above the airfield now
1300: fly above the airfield, obviously longer and wider than the J-10S
1308: J-20 landed 
1310: J-20 parking, J-10S landed 
1320: A perfect first flight! Bravo to all the scientists, engineers, workers!

Unconfirmed information: first flight test pilot Gang&#183;Li (&#26446;&#21018 

With no VIP appear in this "important" flight, to be hornest, I begin to doubt that this is the first flight. It could be the first public flight.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Awesome

video video!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mzwhj

&#24863;&#35874;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#30340;&#38081;&#26438;&#26379;&#21451;&#23545;J-20&#30340;&#20851;&#27880;&#65292;&#20170;&#22825;&#30475;&#21040;&#19997;&#24102;&#25910;&#36153;&#30340;&#28040;&#24687;&#21518;&#38750;&#24120;&#28608;&#21160;&#65292;&#20154;&#19968;&#28608;&#21160;&#65292;&#20174;&#27809;&#21040;&#36807;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#30340;&#25105;&#23601;&#20174;&#32593;&#19978;&#36807;&#26469;&#20102;&#12290;&#25105;&#29616;&#22312;&#26080;&#27861;&#34920;&#36798;&#25105;&#28608;&#21160;&#30340;&#24515;&#24773;&#65292;&#25105;&#24605;&#32500;&#38750;&#24120;&#28151;&#20081;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#25105;&#21482;&#24819;&#35828;J-20 V5&#65292;&#20013;&#22269; V5, &#24052;&#38081; V5!!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*Signing off guys.

Have a Nice good day! 

Jan 11th is apparently the Showing off Muscle day in China.*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ZhengHe

Well done China. 

Hopefully this prototype will be complete soon so they can be rolled out by 1000's.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Awesome

Congratulations to China!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## jha

Beautiful piece of Machine..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

CardSharp said:


> Probably not solely for Gate's benefit. We Chinese have a thing about major events and numbers (remember the Olympics? 8:08 08/08/2008)



Yeah that was beautiful, the Beijing Olympics happened on 8/8/08. Now we've got 11/1/11.

Actually, car license plates with "lucky numbers" get sold for ridiculous amounts of money in HK.

The license plate with the number "18" was sold for more than sixteen million Hong Kong dollars. Personally I think it's a huge waste of money though.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## chinautumn

J20 conducts its first flight today in a cloudy and icy day instead of a good weather day in the past week.It seems to want to show it to Mr Gates during his visit in china?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mzwhj

J-20 will further promote the friendship between China and Pakistan

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CardSharp

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Yeah that was beautiful, the Beijing Olympics happened on 8/8/08. Now we've got 11/1/11.
> 
> Actually, car license plates with "lucky numbers" get sold for ridiculous amounts of money in HK.
> 
> The license plate with the number "18" was sold for more than sixteen million Hong Kong dollars. Personally I think it's a huge waste of money though.



Doesn't some company in HK pay a ridiculous amount for the phone number 888-8888 (or whatever the format is)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Choppers

Congratulations China!! A Great Achievement Indeed.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fallstuff

cera said:


> Here is the recorded live report.
> 
> time zone: GMT+8
> 
> weather condition of ZUUU
> 
> Wind from the SW (220 degrees) at 4 MPH (4 KT)
> Visibility greater than 7 mile(s)
> Sky conditions mostly clear
> Temperature 42 F (6 C)
> Dew Point 23 F (-5 C)
> Relative Humidity 45%
> Pressure (altimeter) 30.30 in. Hg (1026 hPa)
> 
> 0936: one JL-8 double seated trainer, two J-10S double seated fighter appears. One of the J-10S loaded with some kind of pod
> 0938: the weather is great, refueling truck and electric power vehicle is next to J-20
> 0939: someone is on the reviewing stand preparing something. The engine of the J-20 is the silver color version
> 0940: drag parachute loaded
> 1024: ground crew work started
> 1036: pilot shows up
> 1045: J-20 engine started
> 1052: taxing to runway
> 1053: high speed rolling test
> 1101: pilot left
> 1103: loading drag parachute
> 1107: J-10S (the one with the pod) cockpit opens
> *1114: security guard shows up, we are on the tree again *
> 1116: both the J-10 and J-20 started their ground crew work. Fire truck shows up
> 1121: J-10S pilot onboard (the one with the pod)
> 1122: the VIP seat is still empty
> 1126: J-10S engine started
> 1128: some police car shows up
> 1130: J-10S #220 taxing to the runway
> 1131: J-10S takes off
> 1135: two ambulance shows up
> 1145: J-10S landed
> 1208: B-4079 Boeing 737 landed
> 1221: cameraman on position
> 1222: B-4020 Boeing 737 landed (these two 737 belongs to the government)
> 1229: J-20 engine testing
> 1233: J-10S takeoff again
> 1243: J-20 engine started and testing with the cockpit opened
> 1247: J-20 taxing to the runway
> Jan 11th 12:50:16: J-20 TAKE OFF!!!!! with J-10S as chase plane
> 1252: it seems it took off without activated the after burne, nobody saw the flame from the nuzzle
> 125X: circuling above the airfield now
> 1300: fly above the airfield, obviously longer and wider than the J-10S
> 1308: J-20 landed
> 1310: J-20 parking, J-10S landed
> 1320: A perfect first flight! Bravo to all the scientists, engineers, workers!
> 
> Unconfirmed information: first flight test pilot Gang·Li (&#26446;&#21018
> 
> With no VIP appear in this "important" flight, to be hornest, I begin to doubt that this is the first flight. It could be the first public flight.



The bold part is hilarious, "1114: security guard shows up, we are on the tree again ."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Crypto

fallstuff said:


> The bold part is hilarious, "1114: security guard shows up, we are on the tree again ."



LMAO!!! hahahahah i cracked up .. thanks for that mate 

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

here is a video of j-20 but i reckon its fake.. 

http://wareye.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/China-J-20-test-flight-video-exposured.wmv

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## tomluter

*washingtonpost---Chinese stealth fighter makes first test flight*

Chinese stealth fighter makes first test flight

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

tomluter said:


> *washingtonpost---Chinese stealth fighter makes first test flight*
> 
> Chinese stealth fighter makes first test flight



Underestimating PLAAF again, bs article.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## tomluter

landing...

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## below_freezing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Underestimating PLAAF again, bs article.



It doesn't matter if they underestimate us, until their radar screens go black when their AWACs get knocked out, and the floor starts shaking from the bunker busters. At that time, I can imagine the american soldiers radioing, "f**x you and your fake, stolen planes!"

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> It doesn't matter if they underestimate us, until their radar screens go black when their AWACs get knocked out, and the floor starts shaking from the bunker busters. At that time, I can imagine the american soldiers radioing, "f**x you and your fake, stolen planes!"



&#19981;&#38169;&#65292;&#35753;&#23427;&#20204;&#32487;&#32493;&#20570;&#26790;&#21435;&#12290;

&#19981;&#36807;&#25105;&#20204;&#23601;&#26159;&#35201;&#21462;&#20195;&#23427;&#20204;&#65292;&#36825;&#26159;&#20013;&#21326;&#24093;&#22269;&#30340;&#23487;&#21629;&#12290;&#24403;&#24180;&#32769;&#31062;&#23447;&#20063;&#29609;&#36825;&#19968;&#22871;&#65292;&#21382;&#21490;&#30340;&#21738;&#20010;&#24320;&#22269;&#30343;&#24093;&#20250;&#22312;&#36215;&#20853;&#36896;&#21453;&#20043;&#21069;&#35828; &#25105;&#35201;&#24403;&#30343;&#24093;&#65311; &#32769;&#22806;&#21644;&#20013;&#22269;&#27604;&#35745;&#35851;&#36824;&#24046;&#36828;&#20102;&#65292;&#20197;&#23427;&#20204;&#30340;&#32932;&#27973;&#30340;&#25991;&#21270;&#24590;&#20040;&#20250;&#29702;&#35299;&#21338;&#22823;&#31934;&#28145;&#30340;&#20013;&#21326;&#25991;&#26126;&#65311;

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 500

tomluter said:


> landing...


Chinese engines.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## marcos98



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## marcos98

tomluter said:


>



its sleek design makes the PAKFA design look so redundant.....

congrats to china.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SpArK

*J-20 Completes First Flight​*
China's new fighter, the stealthy J-20 has now completed its first flight after several weeks of preparations. 

Here are the initial pictures from Chinese sites:

















Still now word on how long the flight at Chenghdu lasted. It looks like the landing gear remained extended throughout the flight and that it may have been a rather modest outing, but we may get more data on that later. A J-10 served as the escort.

There will be much read into the fact the event happened while U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates was visiting China, but the event's timing may have more to do with weather aligning properly than geopolitics, but there is still some interesting imagery to it even if more by happenstance.


J-20 Completes First Flight


*Congratulations China.. First 5th Gen from Asia.. The fighter looks more beautiful than F-22 in My Opinion.*

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cross1993

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> &#19981;&#38169;&#65292;&#35753;&#23427;&#20204;&#32487;&#32493;&#20570;&#26790;&#21435;&#12290;
> 
> &#19981;&#36807;&#25105;&#20204;&#23601;&#26159;&#35201;&#21462;&#20195;&#23427;&#20204;&#65292;&#36825;&#26159;&#20013;&#21326;&#24093;&#22269;&#30340;&#23487;&#21629;&#12290;&#24403;&#24180;&#32769;&#31062;&#23447;&#20063;&#29609;&#36825;&#19968;&#22871;&#65292;&#21382;&#21490;&#30340;&#21738;&#20010;&#24320;&#22269;&#30343;&#24093;&#20250;&#22312;&#36215;&#20853;&#36896;&#21453;&#20043;&#21069;&#35828; &#8220;&#25105;&#35201;&#24403;&#30343;&#24093;&#8221;&#65311; &#32769;&#22806;&#21644;&#20013;&#22269;&#27604;&#35745;&#35851;&#36824;&#24046;&#36828;&#20102;&#65292;&#20197;&#23427;&#20204;&#30340;&#32932;&#27973;&#30340;&#25991;&#21270;&#24590;&#20040;&#20250;&#29702;&#35299;&#21338;&#22823;&#31934;&#28145;&#30340;&#20013;&#21326;&#25991;&#26126;&#65311;



&#21453;&#23545;&#12290;
&#20013;&#22269;&#38656;&#35201;&#30340;&#26159;&#24674;&#22797;&#37325;&#24314;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#25991;&#26126;&#65292;&#32780;&#19981;&#26159;&#21435;&#25104;&#20026;&#20160;&#20040;&#35813;&#27515;&#30340;&#24093;&#22269;&#12290;
&#36825;&#20010;&#19990;&#30028;&#38656;&#35201;&#22810;&#26497;&#21270;&#65292;&#19981;&#20877;&#38656;&#35201;&#32654;&#22269;&#37027;&#31181;&#38712;&#20027;&#65307;&#20013;&#22269;&#20063;&#19981;&#38656;&#35201;&#25104;&#20026;&#38712;&#20027;&#12290;

&#22825;&#20351;&#29992;&#22307;&#21073;&#26432;&#27515;&#20102;&#39764;&#39740;&#65292;&#20294;&#19981;&#24212;&#35813;&#35753;&#39764;&#39740;&#30340;&#40092;&#34880;&#25226;&#33258;&#24049;&#27745;&#26579;&#25104;&#26032;&#30340;&#39764;&#29579;&#12290;


----------



## SpArK

500 said:


> Chinese engines.



If they can manage a fighter, as beautiful and designed to perfection like this, I dont think there would be a problem with engine.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## tomluter

landing video!! 

TG V5???2011-1-11??????????? - ???? - 56??? ???? ???? ???? ????

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cera

More pictures...




[BR][/BR]

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## jnd3x0

i hardly sign in this site .... i just signed in today to say CONGRATS TO MY CHINA BROTHERS! ...MAY YOU PROSPER MORE ...

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## tomluter

VIDIO TAKE OFF!!
????? - ???? - 56??? ???? ???? ???? ????

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## pzkilo

guys, some videos of 1st flight.

http://player.56.com/v_57752850.swf

????? - ???? - 56??? ???? ???? ???? ????

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cross1993

http://player.56.com/v_57752755.swf

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## PRACTICAL PATRIOT

congratulations to all chinese people it indeed is great achievement. looking forward for the specifications if any available.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## HongWu

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> &#19981;&#38169;&#65292;&#35753;&#23427;&#20204;&#32487;&#32493;&#20570;&#26790;&#21435;&#12290;
> 
> &#19981;&#36807;&#25105;&#20204;&#23601;&#26159;&#35201;&#21462;&#20195;&#23427;&#20204;&#65292;&#36825;&#26159;&#20013;&#21326;&#24093;&#22269;&#30340;&#23487;&#21629;&#12290;&#24403;&#24180;&#32769;&#31062;&#23447;&#20063;&#29609;&#36825;&#19968;&#22871;&#65292;&#21382;&#21490;&#30340;&#21738;&#20010;&#24320;&#22269;&#30343;&#24093;&#20250;&#22312;&#36215;&#20853;&#36896;&#21453;&#20043;&#21069;&#35828; &#25105;&#35201;&#24403;&#30343;&#24093;&#65311; &#32769;&#22806;&#21644;&#20013;&#22269;&#27604;&#35745;&#35851;&#36824;&#24046;&#36828;&#20102;&#65292;&#20197;&#23427;&#20204;&#30340;&#32932;&#27973;&#30340;&#25991;&#21270;&#24590;&#20040;&#20250;&#29702;&#35299;&#21338;&#22823;&#31934;&#28145;&#30340;&#20013;&#21326;&#25991;&#26126;&#65311;


&#25105;&#25903;&#25345;&#65281;

&#26085;&#26412;&#12289;&#21360;&#24230;&#12289;&#32654;&#22269;&#37117;&#19981;&#24895;&#24847;&#36319;&#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063;&#20849;&#20139;&#36825;&#20010;&#19990;&#30028;&#12290;&#20182;&#20204;&#23545;&#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063;&#30340;&#25932;&#24847;&#22826;&#26126;&#26174;&#20102;&#65281;&#36825;&#26159;&#20182;&#20204;&#25991;&#21270;&#30340;&#26680;&#24515;&#37096;&#20998;&#65292;&#36319;&#21476;&#26102;&#20195;&#30340;&#34542;&#20154;&#27809;&#26377;&#20004;&#26679;&#12290;&#22914;&#21516;&#27721;&#26397;&#19982;&#21256;&#22900;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#38656;&#35201;&#28781;&#25481;&#21608;&#36793;&#30340;&#37326;&#34542;&#20154;&#25165;&#33021;&#26377;&#20010;&#20809;&#33635;&#30340;&#26410;&#26469;&#12290;

&#20013;&#22269;&#20154;&#24819;&#35201;&#36861;&#27714;&#21644;&#24179;&#65292;&#36861;&#27714;&#20849;&#23384;&#65292;&#20854;&#23454;&#37117;&#26159;&#27450;&#39575;&#33258;&#24049;&#65292;&#38463;Q&#31934;&#31070;&#32780;&#24050;&#12290;&#25243;&#24323;&#25481;&#19968;&#20999;&#30340;&#24187;&#24819;&#65292;&#20934;&#22791;&#25112;&#20105;&#65281;

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SpArK

cera said:


> More pictures...



Does any body have a high resolution picture of the above, this is an incredible picture worth for desktop wallpaper.. its just awsome..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

HongWu said:


> &#25105;&#25903;&#25345;&#65281;
> 
> &#26085;&#26412;&#12289;&#21360;&#24230;&#12289;&#32654;&#22269;&#37117;&#19981;&#24895;&#24847;&#36319;&#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063;&#20849;&#20139;&#36825;&#20010;&#19990;&#30028;&#12290;&#20182;&#20204;&#23545;&#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063;&#30340;&#25932;&#24847;&#22826;&#26126;&#26174;&#20102;&#65281;&#36825;&#26159;&#20182;&#20204;&#25991;&#21270;&#30340;&#26680;&#24515;&#37096;&#20998;&#65292;&#36319;&#21476;&#26102;&#20195;&#30340;&#34542;&#20154;&#27809;&#26377;&#20004;&#26679;&#12290;&#22914;&#21516;&#27721;&#26397;&#19982;&#21256;&#22900;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#38656;&#35201;&#28781;&#25481;&#21608;&#36793;&#30340;&#37326;&#34542;&#20154;&#25165;&#33021;&#26377;&#20010;&#20809;&#33635;&#30340;&#26410;&#26469;&#12290;
> 
> &#20013;&#22269;&#20154;&#24819;&#35201;&#36861;&#27714;&#21644;&#24179;&#65292;&#36861;&#27714;&#20849;&#23384;&#65292;&#20854;&#23454;&#37117;&#26159;&#27450;&#39575;&#33258;&#24049;&#65292;&#38463;Q&#31934;&#31070;&#32780;&#24050;&#12290;&#25243;&#24323;&#25481;&#19968;&#20999;&#30340;&#24187;&#24819;&#65292;&#20934;&#22791;&#25112;&#20105;&#65281;



&#25454;&#20869;&#24149;&#28040;&#24687;&#65292;2020&#24180;&#20043;&#21069;&#35201;&#21344;&#39046;&#31532;&#19968;&#23707;&#38142;&#65292;&#21040;&#37027;&#26102;&#20505;&#31859;&#24093;&#20272;&#35745;&#20063;&#34987;&#23427;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#20840;&#29699;&#25112;&#30053;&#25302;&#24471;&#24046;&#19981;&#22810;&#20102;&#65292;&#20877;&#21152;&#19978;&#31070;&#40857;&#65292;&#26159;&#21487;&#20197;&#20986;&#25163;&#30340;&#26102;&#20505;&#20102;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## link16

it is a happy day for all Chinese, thanks for all the friend here, Pakistanni Indian .........

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Mr.Eddie

congratulations to our country&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;fellow brothers&#65292;history tells us~only strong military force can safeguard our homeland! we need peace,but we can not bear other country`s invasion&#65281;Long live China&#65292;long live Peace&#65281;

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## aimarraul

the new engine is so lovely,i almost cry 

&#24076;&#26395;&#31062;&#22269;&#27704;&#36828;&#32321;&#33635;&#23500;&#24378;
????--??? - ?? - ???? - ????

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## link16

http://www.56.com/flashApp/56.10.12.03.c.swf?vid=NTc3NTI4NTA&ref=

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## S.U.R.B.

Great! Fantastic! Superb!Lovely! Splendid job done there.



I just could see the landing video,others are not opening yet.






Go! Go! Go!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## chinautumn

aimarraul said:


> the new engine is so lovely,i almost cry
> 
> &#24076;&#26395;&#31062;&#22269;&#27704;&#36828;&#32321;&#33635;&#23500;&#24378;
> ????--??? - ?? - ???? - ????



&#19981;&#35201;&#36148;&#30334;&#24230;&#30340;&#22270;&#29255;&#36807;&#26469;&#65292;&#30475;&#19981;&#21040;&#30340;&#65292;&#26080;&#27861;&#22806;&#38142;!
this engine is domestically made?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

chinautumn said:


> &#19981;&#35201;&#36148;&#30334;&#24230;&#30340;&#22270;&#29255;&#36807;&#26469;&#65292;&#30475;&#19981;&#21040;&#30340;&#65292;&#26080;&#27861;&#22806;&#38142;!
> this engine is domestically made?



The pair of engines is WS-10G.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## sunlibo1986

Long live China!!!Tonight we are all Chinese

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## below_freezing

HongWu said:


> &#25105;&#25903;&#25345;&#65281;
> 
> &#26085;&#26412;&#12289;&#21360;&#24230;&#12289;&#32654;&#22269;&#37117;&#19981;&#24895;&#24847;&#36319;&#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063;&#20849;&#20139;&#36825;&#20010;&#19990;&#30028;&#12290;&#20182;&#20204;&#23545;&#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063;&#30340;&#25932;&#24847;&#22826;&#26126;&#26174;&#20102;&#65281;&#36825;&#26159;&#20182;&#20204;&#25991;&#21270;&#30340;&#26680;&#24515;&#37096;&#20998;&#65292;&#36319;&#21476;&#26102;&#20195;&#30340;&#34542;&#20154;&#27809;&#26377;&#20004;&#26679;&#12290;&#22914;&#21516;&#27721;&#26397;&#19982;&#21256;&#22900;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#38656;&#35201;&#28781;&#25481;&#21608;&#36793;&#30340;&#37326;&#34542;&#20154;&#25165;&#33021;&#26377;&#20010;&#20809;&#33635;&#30340;&#26410;&#26469;&#12290;
> 
> &#20013;&#22269;&#20154;&#24819;&#35201;&#36861;&#27714;&#21644;&#24179;&#65292;&#36861;&#27714;&#20849;&#23384;&#65292;&#20854;&#23454;&#37117;&#26159;&#27450;&#39575;&#33258;&#24049;&#65292;&#38463;Q&#31934;&#31070;&#32780;&#24050;&#12290;&#25243;&#24323;&#25481;&#19968;&#20999;&#30340;&#24187;&#24819;&#65292;&#20934;&#22791;&#25112;&#20105;&#65281;



&#21704;&#21704;&#65292;&#32456;&#20110;&#35777;&#26126;&#20320;&#19981;&#26159;&#39532;&#30002;&#20102;~ airmaul&#35823;&#20250;&#20102;~ &#25105;&#26367;&#20182;&#36947;&#27465;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mr.Eddie

at this moment,it increased to 676 viewing!absolutely on fire

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fallstuff



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## fallstuff

Better youtube video of first flight.
The plane starts taking off at about 3:30 into the video. Enjoy. Originally from 56.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Chengduman

HA HA HA HA&#65292;You are too humorous.LI GANG----this word is so hot in China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## aimarraul

chinautumn said:


> this engine is domestically made?



AL31F






WS10







WS10G&#65311;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

Action starts at 3:31 in the video.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

aimarraul said:


> AL31F
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WS10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WS-?




&#36229;&#22823;&#30340;&#22823;&#34430;&#20204;&#37117;&#30830;&#23450;&#20102;&#26159;&#22826;&#34892;&#25913;&#65292;&#24212;&#35813;&#27809;&#38169;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## baker

Congrats to all chineese friends......

when we lauched our 4th Gen fighter.. you guys Lauched ur 5th Gen....
you guys are really ahead of us many miles.... hope we can catch up with china in near future....

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## cross1993

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> &#25454;&#20869;&#24149;&#28040;&#24687;&#65292;2020&#24180;&#20043;&#21069;&#35201;&#21344;&#39046;&#31532;&#19968;&#23707;&#38142;&#65292;&#21040;&#37027;&#26102;&#20505;&#31859;&#24093;&#20272;&#35745;&#20063;&#34987;&#23427;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#20840;&#29699;&#25112;&#30053;&#25302;&#24471;&#24046;&#19981;&#22810;&#20102;&#65292;&#20877;&#21152;&#19978;&#31070;&#40857;&#65292;&#26159;&#21487;&#20197;&#20986;&#25163;&#30340;&#26102;&#20505;&#20102;&#12290;



&#20013;&#22269;&#26368;&#37325;&#35201;&#30340;&#32463;&#27982;&#21306;&#22495;&#37117;&#22312;&#19996;&#37096;&#27839;&#28023;&#65292;&#32780;&#23545;&#36825;&#20123;&#21306;&#22495;&#30340;&#23041;&#32961;&#22823;&#37096;&#20998;&#26469;&#33258;&#20110;&#32654;&#22269;&#22312;&#35199;&#22826;&#24179;&#27915;&#23707;&#38142;&#30340;&#21508;&#20010;&#22522;&#22320;&#12290;&#25152;&#20197;&#23707;&#38142;&#30830;&#23454;&#26159;&#25105;&#22269;&#30340;&#26368;&#22823;&#25112;&#30053;&#30446;&#26631;&#12290;

&#20294;&#35201;&#36798;&#21040;&#30446;&#30340;&#24182;&#19981;&#19968;&#23450;&#38656;&#35201;&#38752;&#27494;&#21147;&#65292;&#29978;&#33267;&#27494;&#21147;&#25165;&#26159;&#26368;&#31967;&#31957;&#21644;&#26368;&#21518;&#30340;&#36873;&#25321;...

==========================

&#20013;&#22269;&#26159;&#38470;&#26435;&#22269;&#23478;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#26159;&#28023;&#26435;&#22269;&#23478;~ &#38470;&#26435;&#22269;&#23478;&#26368;&#24597;&#30340;&#26159;&#19982;&#28023;&#26435;&#22269;&#23478;&#38271;&#26399;&#22312;&#28023;&#19978;&#36739;&#37327;&#65292;&#22312;&#22269;&#21147;&#22522;&#26412;&#30456;&#31561;&#30340;&#21069;&#25552;&#19979;&#65292;&#38470;&#26435;&#22269;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#25237;&#20837;&#30456;&#21516;&#27604;&#20363;&#30340;&#36164;&#28304;&#19982;&#28023;&#26435;&#22269;&#20105;&#22842;&#21046;&#28023;&#26435;~ &#36825;&#20063;&#23601;&#26159;&#33487;&#32852;&#30340;&#32418;&#28023;&#20891;&#22987;&#32456;&#19981;&#33021;&#23545;&#32654;&#24418;&#25104;&#20840;&#38754;&#25112;&#30053;&#20248;&#21183;&#30340;&#21407;&#22240;~

&#25152;&#20197;&#38470;&#26435;&#22269;&#30340;&#27491;&#30830;&#26041;&#27861;&#24212;&#35813;&#26159;&#36890;&#36807;&#25511;&#21046;&#27839;&#28023;&#22269;&#23478;&#21644;&#23707;&#23679;&#30340;&#22522;&#22320;~ &#20196;&#28023;&#26435;&#22269;&#22833;&#21435;&#28023;&#26435;&#25112;&#30053;&#25903;&#25745;&#28857;~ &#22240;&#20026;&#28023;&#20891;&#30340;&#24369;&#28857;&#26159;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#38271;&#26399;&#33073;&#31163;&#38470;&#22320;&#34917;&#32473;&#32780;&#21333;&#29420;&#20316;&#25112;~ &#21482;&#35201;&#22312;&#28023;&#38470;&#20043;&#38388;&#24418;&#25104;&#38271;&#36317;&#31163;&#30340;&#32531;&#20914;&#28023;&#22495;&#23601;&#23436;&#25104;&#20102;&#39537;&#36880;&#20219;&#21153;~ 

&#25152;&#20197;&#65292;&#35201;&#36798;&#21040;&#36825;&#20010;&#30446;&#26631;&#23601;&#24212;&#35813;&#36843;&#20351;&#32654;&#22269;&#20174;&#20851;&#23707;&#25764;&#36864;&#21040;&#22799;&#23041;&#22839;~ &#27809;&#26377;&#20851;&#23707;&#30340;&#25903;&#25745;&#28857;~ &#32654;&#22269;&#23601;&#20250;&#22833;&#21435;&#23545;&#20122;&#27954;&#30340;&#24433;&#21709;&#21644;&#23545;&#20013;&#22269;&#27839;&#28023;&#22320;&#21306;&#30340;&#23041;&#32961;~ &#24819;&#38271;&#26399;&#27966;&#33322;&#27597;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#27839;&#28023;&#28216;&#24331;&#26159;&#19981;&#29616;&#23454;&#30340;~ &#32780;&#19988;&#32654;&#22269;&#19968;&#26086;&#20174;&#20851;&#23707;&#25764;&#36864;&#65292;&#20063;&#23601;&#24847;&#21619;&#30528;&#20182;&#23545;&#20013;&#22269;&#22312;&#35199;&#22826;&#24179;&#30340;&#29305;&#27530;&#21033;&#30410;&#32473;&#20104;&#25215;&#35748;~ 

==========================

&#26085;&#26412;&#26159;&#25972;&#20010;&#32654;&#22269;&#35199;&#22826;&#24179;&#27915;&#20307;&#31995;&#30340;&#25903;&#26609;~ &#19981;&#25511;&#21046;&#26085;&#26412;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#21363;&#20351;&#22312;&#20891;&#20107;&#19978;&#19968;&#27425;&#22833;&#36133;&#20063;&#21487;&#20197;&#24456;&#24555;&#37325;&#36820;&#19996;&#20122;~ &#32780;&#19968;&#26086;&#26085;&#26412;&#20498;&#21521;&#20013;&#22269;&#65292;&#20851;&#23707;&#32654;&#20891;&#22522;&#22320;&#23601;&#22833;&#21435;&#20102;&#23384;&#22312;&#30340;&#24847;&#20041;~ &#32654;&#22269;&#21482;&#26377;&#36864;&#23432;&#22799;&#23041;&#22839;&#65292;&#25215;&#35748;&#20013;&#26085;&#20004;&#22269;&#23545;&#19996;&#20122;&#30340;&#29305;&#27530;&#21033;&#30410;~ &#32780;&#20877;&#24819;&#20174;&#22799;&#23041;&#22839;&#37325;&#36820;&#22823;&#38470;&#23601;&#20960;&#20046;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#20102;~ 

&#32780;&#26085;&#26412;&#29616;&#38454;&#27573;&#26368;&#22823;&#30340;&#25919;&#27835;&#21033;&#30410;&#26159;&#22269;&#23478;&#27491;&#24120;&#21270;~ 
&#20294;&#36825;&#20010;&#19990;&#30028;&#27809;&#26377;&#20813;&#36153;&#30340;&#21320;&#39184;&#65292;&#25511;&#21046;&#22312;&#25163;&#20013;&#21487;&#20197;&#38543;&#24847;&#21098;&#32650;&#27611;&#30340;&#26085;&#26412;&#25165;&#26159;&#26368;&#31526;&#21512;&#32654;&#22269;&#21033;&#30410;&#30340;&#26085;&#26412;&#65292;&#25152;&#20197;&#22914;&#26524;&#27809;&#26377;&#21387;&#21147;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#26159;&#19981;&#20250;&#20027;&#21160;&#29306;&#29298;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#21033;&#30410;&#65292;&#35753;&#26085;&#26412;&#27491;&#24120;&#21270;&#30340;~
&#37027;&#20040;&#23545;&#20110;&#26085;&#26412;&#30340;&#25919;&#27835;&#23478;&#26469;&#35828;&#21482;&#26377;&#20004;&#26465;&#36335;&#21487;&#20197;&#35753;&#22269;&#23478;&#33719;&#24471;&#33258;&#30001;&#65306;&#19968;&#65292;&#36890;&#36807;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#21147;&#37327;&#36924;&#36843;&#32654;&#22269;&#31163;&#24320;&#26085;&#26412;&#12290;&#20108;&#65292;&#32852;&#21512;&#22806;&#37096;&#21183;&#21147;&#21644;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#21147;&#37327;&#19968;&#36215;&#36924;&#36843;&#32654;&#22269;&#31163;&#24320;&#26085;&#26412;&#12290;
&#20363;&#22914;&#65306;&#23433;&#22521;&#26187;&#19977;&#65292;&#40480;&#23665;&#30001;&#32426;&#22827;&#31561;&#36817;&#20960;&#20301;&#26085;&#26412;&#39318;&#30456;&#19968;&#30452;&#37117;&#22312;&#33268;&#21147;&#20110;&#25286;&#38500;&#19968;&#20010;&#21448;&#19968;&#20010;&#30340;&#32654;&#20891;&#39547;&#26085;&#22522;&#22320;~ 
========================
&#23545;&#20110;&#26085;&#26412;&#26469;&#35828;&#65292;&#25152;&#35859;&#21487;&#20197;&#20511;&#21161;&#30340;&#22806;&#37096;&#21183;&#21147;~ &#20854;&#23454;&#21482;&#26377;&#20013;&#22269;&#26377;&#36825;&#33021;&#21147;~ &#32780;&#19968;&#26086;&#32852;&#21512;&#20013;&#22269;&#25104;&#21151;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#36864;&#20986;&#20122;&#27954;&#26102;&#65292;&#24517;&#28982;&#20250;&#35937;&#33521;&#22269;&#37322;&#25918;&#21360;&#24230;&#19968;&#26679;&#32473;&#26085;&#26412;&#33258;&#30001;~

&#25152;&#20197;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#25112;&#30053;&#26680;&#24515;&#30446;&#26631;&#26159;&#26085;&#26412;... &#26368;&#21518;&#23601;&#31639;&#20013;&#22269;&#20154;&#20877;&#19981;&#21916;&#27426;&#26085;&#26412;&#20154;&#65292;&#36825;&#20004;&#20010;&#22269;&#23478;&#20063;&#20250;&#34987;&#20849;&#21516;&#30340;&#25919;&#27835;&#21033;&#30410;&#25512;&#21040;&#19968;&#26465;&#36335;&#19978;&#21435;&#12290;
========================
&#32780;&#20013;&#22269;&#21457;&#23637;&#30340;&#27494;&#21147;&#24182;&#19981;&#38656;&#35201;&#20351;&#29992;&#65292;&#23427;&#21482;&#26159;&#19968;&#31181;&#35848;&#21028;&#36164;&#26412;&#12290;

&#23545;&#20110;&#20013;&#22269;&#21644;&#32654;&#22269;&#36825;&#26679;&#30340;&#22269;&#23478;&#26469;&#35828;&#65292;&#26159;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#20986;&#29616;&#27491;&#38754;&#20132;&#38155;&#30340;&#12290;1950&#24180;&#30340;&#25112;&#20105;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#20877;&#27425;&#37325;&#29616;&#65292;&#26356;&#22810;&#30340;&#20250;&#26159;&#35848;&#21028;&#26700;&#19978;&#30340;&#25112;&#20105;&#65292;&#25110;&#32773;&#26159;&#25206;&#25345;&#20195;&#29702;&#20154;&#36827;&#34892;&#25112;&#20105;&#65292;&#21542;&#21017;&#37027;&#20250;&#26159;&#25972;&#20010;&#20154;&#31867;&#30340;&#26368;&#32456;&#28009;&#21163;&#12290;&#25105;&#20204;&#21482;&#26159;&#24819;&#20445;&#25252;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#23478;&#22253;&#65292;&#32780;&#19981;&#26159;&#21644;&#24378;&#30423;&#21516;&#24402;&#20110;&#23613;&#12290;

&#19981;&#35201;&#35753;&#24868;&#24594;&#30340;&#24773;&#32490;&#36855;&#24785;&#20102;&#25105;&#20204;&#30591;&#26234;&#30340;&#30524;&#30555;&#65292;&#20808;&#36827;&#30340;&#27494;&#22120;&#21644;&#24378;&#22823;&#30340;&#27494;&#21147;&#24212;&#35813;&#26159;&#31609;&#30721;&#65292;&#32780;&#19981;&#26159;&#36127;&#25285;&#12290;


&#25105;&#20204;&#23545;&#20914;&#30772;&#23707;&#38142;&#30340;&#38656;&#27714;&#20063;&#24182;&#38750;&#20986;&#20110;&#36138;&#23146;&#65292;&#32780;&#26159;&#23545;&#33258;&#36523;&#23433;&#20840;&#30340;&#38656;&#35201;&#12290;&#32654;&#22269;&#22312;&#40644;&#28023;&#28436;&#20064;&#36825;&#31181;&#20107;&#24773;&#19981;&#33021;&#19968;&#32780;&#20877;&#30340;&#20986;&#29616;&#65292;&#20182;&#20204;&#24212;&#35813;&#19982;&#25105;&#20204;&#24314;&#31435;&#20891;&#20107;&#32531;&#20914;&#21306;&#65292;&#32780;&#26368;&#21512;&#36866;&#30340;&#32531;&#20914;&#21306;&#23601;&#26159;&#22799;&#23041;&#22839;&#21040;&#19996;&#20122;&#20043;&#38388;&#30340;&#24191;&#38420;&#28023;&#27915;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## scuthan

I upload china.com's maiden flight video to youtube

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## sreekimpact

CONGRATULATION CHINA!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

baker said:


> Congrats to all chineese friends......
> 
> when we lauched our 4th Gen fighter.. you guys Lauched ur 5th Gen....
> you guys are really ahead of us many miles.... hope we can catch up with china in near future....



Indeed, i sincerely hope India to see China as a friendly nation in the future.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

cross1993 said:


> &#20013;&#22269;&#26368;&#37325;&#35201;&#30340;&#32463;&#27982;&#21306;&#22495;&#37117;&#22312;&#19996;&#37096;&#27839;&#28023;&#65292;&#32780;&#23545;&#36825;&#20123;&#21306;&#22495;&#30340;&#23041;&#32961;&#22823;&#37096;&#20998;&#26469;&#33258;&#20110;&#32654;&#22269;&#22312;&#35199;&#22826;&#24179;&#27915;&#23707;&#38142;&#30340;&#21508;&#20010;&#22522;&#22320;&#12290;&#25152;&#20197;&#23707;&#38142;&#30830;&#23454;&#26159;&#25105;&#22269;&#30340;&#26368;&#22823;&#25112;&#30053;&#30446;&#26631;&#12290;
> 
> &#20294;&#35201;&#36798;&#21040;&#30446;&#30340;&#24182;&#19981;&#19968;&#23450;&#38656;&#35201;&#38752;&#27494;&#21147;&#65292;&#29978;&#33267;&#27494;&#21147;&#25165;&#26159;&#26368;&#31967;&#31957;&#21644;&#26368;&#21518;&#30340;&#36873;&#25321;...
> 
> ==========================
> 
> &#20013;&#22269;&#26159;&#38470;&#26435;&#22269;&#23478;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#26159;&#28023;&#26435;&#22269;&#23478;~ &#38470;&#26435;&#22269;&#23478;&#26368;&#24597;&#30340;&#26159;&#19982;&#28023;&#26435;&#22269;&#23478;&#38271;&#26399;&#22312;&#28023;&#19978;&#36739;&#37327;&#65292;&#22312;&#22269;&#21147;&#22522;&#26412;&#30456;&#31561;&#30340;&#21069;&#25552;&#19979;&#65292;&#38470;&#26435;&#22269;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#25237;&#20837;&#30456;&#21516;&#27604;&#20363;&#30340;&#36164;&#28304;&#19982;&#28023;&#26435;&#22269;&#20105;&#22842;&#21046;&#28023;&#26435;~ &#36825;&#20063;&#23601;&#26159;&#33487;&#32852;&#30340;&#32418;&#28023;&#20891;&#22987;&#32456;&#19981;&#33021;&#23545;&#32654;&#24418;&#25104;&#20840;&#38754;&#25112;&#30053;&#20248;&#21183;&#30340;&#21407;&#22240;~
> 
> &#25152;&#20197;&#38470;&#26435;&#22269;&#30340;&#27491;&#30830;&#26041;&#27861;&#24212;&#35813;&#26159;&#36890;&#36807;&#25511;&#21046;&#27839;&#28023;&#22269;&#23478;&#21644;&#23707;&#23679;&#30340;&#22522;&#22320;~ &#20196;&#28023;&#26435;&#22269;&#22833;&#21435;&#28023;&#26435;&#25112;&#30053;&#25903;&#25745;&#28857;~ &#22240;&#20026;&#28023;&#20891;&#30340;&#24369;&#28857;&#26159;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#38271;&#26399;&#33073;&#31163;&#38470;&#22320;&#34917;&#32473;&#32780;&#21333;&#29420;&#20316;&#25112;~ &#21482;&#35201;&#22312;&#28023;&#38470;&#20043;&#38388;&#24418;&#25104;&#38271;&#36317;&#31163;&#30340;&#32531;&#20914;&#28023;&#22495;&#23601;&#23436;&#25104;&#20102;&#39537;&#36880;&#20219;&#21153;~
> 
> &#25152;&#20197;&#65292;&#35201;&#36798;&#21040;&#36825;&#20010;&#30446;&#26631;&#23601;&#24212;&#35813;&#36843;&#20351;&#32654;&#22269;&#20174;&#20851;&#23707;&#25764;&#36864;&#21040;&#22799;&#23041;&#22839;~ &#27809;&#26377;&#20851;&#23707;&#30340;&#25903;&#25745;&#28857;~ &#32654;&#22269;&#23601;&#20250;&#22833;&#21435;&#23545;&#20122;&#27954;&#30340;&#24433;&#21709;&#21644;&#23545;&#20013;&#22269;&#27839;&#28023;&#22320;&#21306;&#30340;&#23041;&#32961;~ &#24819;&#38271;&#26399;&#27966;&#33322;&#27597;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#27839;&#28023;&#28216;&#24331;&#26159;&#19981;&#29616;&#23454;&#30340;~ &#32780;&#19988;&#32654;&#22269;&#19968;&#26086;&#20174;&#20851;&#23707;&#25764;&#36864;&#65292;&#20063;&#23601;&#24847;&#21619;&#30528;&#20182;&#23545;&#20013;&#22269;&#22312;&#35199;&#22826;&#24179;&#30340;&#29305;&#27530;&#21033;&#30410;&#32473;&#20104;&#25215;&#35748;~
> 
> ==========================
> 
> &#26085;&#26412;&#26159;&#25972;&#20010;&#32654;&#22269;&#35199;&#22826;&#24179;&#27915;&#20307;&#31995;&#30340;&#25903;&#26609;~ &#19981;&#25511;&#21046;&#26085;&#26412;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#21363;&#20351;&#22312;&#20891;&#20107;&#19978;&#19968;&#27425;&#22833;&#36133;&#20063;&#21487;&#20197;&#24456;&#24555;&#37325;&#36820;&#19996;&#20122;~ &#32780;&#19968;&#26086;&#26085;&#26412;&#20498;&#21521;&#20013;&#22269;&#65292;&#20851;&#23707;&#32654;&#20891;&#22522;&#22320;&#23601;&#22833;&#21435;&#20102;&#23384;&#22312;&#30340;&#24847;&#20041;~ &#32654;&#22269;&#21482;&#26377;&#36864;&#23432;&#22799;&#23041;&#22839;&#65292;&#25215;&#35748;&#20013;&#26085;&#20004;&#22269;&#23545;&#19996;&#20122;&#30340;&#29305;&#27530;&#21033;&#30410;~ &#32780;&#20877;&#24819;&#20174;&#22799;&#23041;&#22839;&#37325;&#36820;&#22823;&#38470;&#23601;&#20960;&#20046;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#20102;~
> 
> &#32780;&#26085;&#26412;&#29616;&#38454;&#27573;&#26368;&#22823;&#30340;&#25919;&#27835;&#21033;&#30410;&#26159;&#22269;&#23478;&#27491;&#24120;&#21270;~
> &#20294;&#36825;&#20010;&#19990;&#30028;&#27809;&#26377;&#20813;&#36153;&#30340;&#21320;&#39184;&#65292;&#25511;&#21046;&#22312;&#25163;&#20013;&#21487;&#20197;&#38543;&#24847;&#21098;&#32650;&#27611;&#30340;&#26085;&#26412;&#25165;&#26159;&#26368;&#31526;&#21512;&#32654;&#22269;&#21033;&#30410;&#30340;&#26085;&#26412;&#65292;&#25152;&#20197;&#22914;&#26524;&#27809;&#26377;&#21387;&#21147;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#26159;&#19981;&#20250;&#20027;&#21160;&#29306;&#29298;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#21033;&#30410;&#65292;&#35753;&#26085;&#26412;&#27491;&#24120;&#21270;&#30340;~
> &#37027;&#20040;&#23545;&#20110;&#26085;&#26412;&#30340;&#25919;&#27835;&#23478;&#26469;&#35828;&#21482;&#26377;&#20004;&#26465;&#36335;&#21487;&#20197;&#35753;&#22269;&#23478;&#33719;&#24471;&#33258;&#30001;&#65306;&#19968;&#65292;&#36890;&#36807;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#21147;&#37327;&#36924;&#36843;&#32654;&#22269;&#31163;&#24320;&#26085;&#26412;&#12290;&#20108;&#65292;&#32852;&#21512;&#22806;&#37096;&#21183;&#21147;&#21644;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#21147;&#37327;&#19968;&#36215;&#36924;&#36843;&#32654;&#22269;&#31163;&#24320;&#26085;&#26412;&#12290;
> &#20363;&#22914;&#65306;&#23433;&#22521;&#26187;&#19977;&#65292;&#40480;&#23665;&#30001;&#32426;&#22827;&#31561;&#36817;&#20960;&#20301;&#26085;&#26412;&#39318;&#30456;&#19968;&#30452;&#37117;&#22312;&#33268;&#21147;&#20110;&#25286;&#38500;&#19968;&#20010;&#21448;&#19968;&#20010;&#30340;&#32654;&#20891;&#39547;&#26085;&#22522;&#22320;~
> ========================
> &#23545;&#20110;&#26085;&#26412;&#26469;&#35828;&#65292;&#25152;&#35859;&#21487;&#20197;&#20511;&#21161;&#30340;&#22806;&#37096;&#21183;&#21147;~ &#20854;&#23454;&#21482;&#26377;&#20013;&#22269;&#26377;&#36825;&#33021;&#21147;~ &#26174;&#28982;&#23431;&#23449;&#31532;&#19968;&#24093;&#22269;&#26159;&#19981;&#23633;&#36825;&#31181;&#23567;&#20107;&#30340;~ &#32780;&#19968;&#26086;&#32852;&#21512;&#20013;&#22269;&#25104;&#21151;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#36864;&#20986;&#20122;&#27954;&#26102;&#65292;&#24517;&#28982;&#20250;&#35937;&#33521;&#22269;&#37322;&#25918;&#21360;&#24230;&#19968;&#26679;&#32473;&#26085;&#26412;&#33258;&#30001;~
> 
> &#25152;&#20197;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#25112;&#30053;&#26680;&#24515;&#30446;&#26631;&#26159;&#26085;&#26412;...
> ========================
> &#32780;&#20013;&#22269;&#21457;&#23637;&#30340;&#27494;&#21147;&#24182;&#19981;&#38656;&#35201;&#20351;&#29992;&#65292;&#20182;&#21482;&#26159;&#19968;&#31181;&#35848;&#21028;&#36164;&#26412;&#12290;
> 
> &#23545;&#20110;&#20013;&#22269;&#21644;&#32654;&#22269;&#36825;&#26679;&#30340;&#22269;&#23478;&#26469;&#35828;&#65292;&#26159;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#20986;&#29616;&#27491;&#38754;&#20132;&#38155;&#30340;&#65292;1950&#24180;&#30340;&#25112;&#20105;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#20877;&#27425;&#37325;&#29616;&#12290;&#26356;&#22810;&#30340;&#20250;&#26159;&#35848;&#21028;&#26700;&#19978;&#30340;&#25112;&#20105;&#65292;&#25110;&#32773;&#26159;&#25206;&#25345;&#20195;&#29702;&#20154;&#36827;&#34892;&#25112;&#20105;&#12290;
> 
> &#19981;&#35201;&#35753;&#24773;&#32490;&#36855;&#24785;&#20102;&#25105;&#20204;&#29616;&#23454;&#30340;&#30524;&#30555;&#12290;&#20808;&#36827;&#30340;&#27494;&#22120;&#21644;&#24378;&#22823;&#30340;&#27494;&#21147;&#26159;&#31609;&#30721;&#65292;&#32780;&#19981;&#26159;&#36127;&#25285;&#12290;



&#35201;&#22823;&#21147;&#21457;&#23637;&#22826;&#31354;&#27494;&#22120;&#65292;&#36825;&#26679;&#25165;&#33021;&#26080;&#35270;&#31859;&#24093;&#30340;&#28023;&#20891;&#65292;&#31070;&#40857;&#23601;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#24456;&#22909;&#30340;&#24320;&#22987;&#65292;&#24456;&#32473;&#21147;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## scuthan

500 said:


> Chinese engines.



Yes,it is a still mystery right now. nobody saw this engine before. for sure it isn't a russian engine. it must be a new type developed for j20 exclusively.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## soleknife

&#25919;&#27835;&#26412;&#36523;&#30340;&#19968;&#20010;&#20316;&#29992;&#23601;&#26159;&#24378;&#21270;&#33258;&#24049;&#21644;&#21066;&#24369;&#21035;&#20154;
&#22320;&#29699;&#23601;&#36825;&#20040;&#22823;&#65292;&#21147;&#37327;&#24378;&#20102;&#23601;&#24819;&#36807;&#30340;&#27604;&#21035;&#20154;&#22909;&#65292;&#23601;&#20687;&#21476;&#20195;&#33945;&#21476;&#21256;&#22900;&#65292;&#22914;&#26524;&#20182;&#20204;&#37117;&#21435;&#31181;&#30000;&#65292;&#35841;&#26469;&#25171;&#20183;&#21602;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

scuthan said:


> Yes,it is a still mystery right now. nobody saw this engine before. for sure it isn't a russian engine. it must be a new type developed for j20 exclusively.



It looks like a heavily upgraded Taihang engine, so WS-10G is what most people speculated.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## baker

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Indeed, i sincerely hope India to see China as a friendly nation in the future.



i beleive we are already on our way for good friendship....

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## S.U.R.B.

That's a big monster there.Huge one.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ZaYYaF

Congrats guys. Great achievement.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Mr.Eddie

China and India have many to learn from each other! we compete with each other peacefully, we should not treat each other as foes! we are friends

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Roybot

What a beast, amazing plane! Kudos to China

On a different note, what happens when every other country has a 5th gen plane? I mean US and its allies including the Euro union will have F-22 and/or F-35, India-Russia will eventually have PAK-FA, China with its J-20 and Pakistan will most likely get few J-20's too. Is it not F-16/18, EF-Typhoon/Rafael/ SU-30/J-10 all over again?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cross1993

soleknife said:


> &#25919;&#27835;&#26412;&#36523;&#30340;&#19968;&#20010;&#20316;&#29992;&#23601;&#26159;&#24378;&#21270;&#33258;&#24049;&#21644;&#21066;&#24369;&#21035;&#20154;
> &#22320;&#29699;&#23601;&#36825;&#20040;&#22823;&#65292;&#21147;&#37327;&#24378;&#20102;&#23601;&#24819;&#36807;&#30340;&#27604;&#21035;&#20154;&#22909;&#65292;&#23601;&#20687;&#21476;&#20195;&#33945;&#21476;&#21256;&#22900;&#65292;&#22914;&#26524;&#20182;&#20204;&#37117;&#21435;&#31181;&#30000;&#65292;&#35841;&#26469;&#25171;&#20183;&#21602;



&#32654;&#22269;&#30340;&#38712;&#26435;&#20043;&#25152;&#20197;&#36208;&#21521;&#34928;&#24369;&#23601;&#26159;&#22240;&#20026;&#29359;&#20102;&#20004;&#20010;&#22823;&#38169;&#35823;&#65306;
1&#65292;&#20182;&#20204;&#28781;&#20129;&#20102;&#33487;&#32852;&#12290;
&#22914;&#26524;&#33487;&#32852;&#20170;&#22825;&#20173;&#28982;&#23384;&#22312;&#65292;&#37027;&#20040;&#20013;&#22269;&#21644;&#27431;&#27954;&#20250;&#32487;&#32493;&#36319;&#30528;&#32654;&#22269;&#30340;&#25351;&#25381;&#26834;&#36208;&#65292;&#22823;&#23478;&#19968;&#36215;&#23545;&#20184;&#26469;&#33258;&#21271;&#26041;&#30340;&#24378;&#22823;&#23041;&#32961;&#12290;&#20294;&#33487;&#32852;&#27809;&#20102;&#65292;&#25152;&#20197;&#27431;&#20803;&#21644;RMB&#20986;&#29616;&#20102;&#65292;&#27431;&#27954;&#25512;&#20986;&#20102;&#22320;&#20013;&#28023;&#35745;&#21010;&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#20063;&#25552;&#20986;&#20102;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#25919;&#27835;&#35201;&#27714;&#12290;&#32769;&#24067;&#20160;&#34987;&#36843;&#21457;&#21160;&#20102;&#28023;&#28286;&#25112;&#20105;&#65292;&#35753;&#32654;&#22278;&#21644;&#30707;&#27833;&#25346;&#38057;&#65292;&#24310;&#32493;&#20102;&#32654;&#22269;&#38712;&#26435;&#30340;&#23551;&#21629;&#65292;&#36825;&#20063;&#26159;&#20182;&#20204;&#25903;&#25345;&#20197;&#33394;&#21015;&#30340;&#21407;&#22240;&#12290;
&#8220;&#20859;&#36156;&#33258;&#37325;&#65292;&#20820;&#27515;&#29399;&#28921;&#8221;&#26174;&#28982;&#32654;&#22269;&#20154;&#19981;&#25026;&#36825;&#20010;&#36947;&#29702;&#12290;
2&#65292;&#36164;&#26412;&#20027;&#20041;&#23500;&#35029;&#20102;&#32654;&#22269;&#65292;&#20294;&#26497;&#31471;&#36164;&#26412;&#20027;&#20041;&#26368;&#32456;&#20250;&#27585;&#28781;&#32654;&#22269;&#12290;
&#32654;&#22269;&#19981;&#26029;&#23558;&#24037;&#19994;&#24448;&#22806;&#36801;&#31227;&#65292;&#26412;&#22303;&#36234;&#26469;&#36234;&#20559;&#21521;&#37329;&#34701;&#31561;&#39640;&#31471;&#34892;&#19994;&#12290;&#34429;&#28982;&#30475;&#19978;&#21435;&#24456;&#32654;&#22909;&#65292;&#20294;&#36825;&#20854;&#23454;&#19981;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#22823;&#22269;&#24212;&#35813;&#37319;&#29992;&#30340;&#25919;&#31574;&#12290;&#19968;&#20010;&#22823;&#22269;&#26368;&#37325;&#35201;&#30340;&#23646;&#24615;&#23601;&#26159;&#20840;&#38754;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#30340;&#30446;&#26631;&#26159;&#36229;&#32423;&#38712;&#26435;&#65292;&#32780;&#19981;&#26159;&#21152;&#22823;&#29256;&#30340;&#29790;&#22763;&#12290;&#38752;NBA&#29699;&#26143;&#25110;&#32773;&#21326;&#23572;&#34903;&#24459;&#24072;&#20160;&#20040;&#30340;&#26080;&#27861;&#25745;&#36215;&#19968;&#20010;&#22823;&#22269;&#30340;&#33034;&#26753;&#12290;
====================
&#23545;&#20110;&#20013;&#22269;&#26469;&#35828;&#65292;&#20840;&#29699;&#21270;&#30340;&#19990;&#30028;&#24182;&#19981;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#8220;&#24378;&#21270;&#33258;&#24049;&#26159;&#21066;&#24369;&#21035;&#20154;&#8221;&#30340;&#19990;&#30028;&#12290;&#24403;&#28982;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#27704;&#36828;&#20570;&#19990;&#30028;&#24037;&#21378;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#20063;&#35201;&#20570;&#39640;&#31471;&#65292;&#20294;&#36825;&#19981;&#20195;&#34920;&#30528;&#25105;&#20204;&#23601;&#20250;&#25918;&#24323;&#20302;&#31471;&#24037;&#19994;&#65292;&#21407;&#22240;&#22043;&#65306;
1&#65292;&#22312;&#38750;&#27954;&#21644;&#21360;&#24230;&#23436;&#25104;&#24037;&#19994;&#21270;&#20934;&#22791;&#20043;&#21069;&#65292;&#27809;&#26377;&#21738;&#20010;&#22269;&#23478;&#21487;&#20197;&#39030;&#26367;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#29983;&#20135;&#20219;&#21153;&#12290;&#32780;&#20174;&#36825;&#20004;&#20010;&#22320;&#26041;&#30340;&#20154;&#21475;&#32032;&#36136;&#65288;&#35782;&#23383;&#29575;&#20581;&#24247;&#29366;&#20917;&#31561;&#65289;&#21644;&#22522;&#24314;&#27700;&#24179;&#26469;&#30475;&#65292;&#26242;&#26102;&#19981;&#20855;&#22791;&#22823;&#35268;&#27169;&#25509;&#29677;&#30340;&#26465;&#20214;&#12290;
2&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#20250;&#23558;&#24037;&#19994;&#21521;&#35199;&#37096;&#36801;&#31227;&#65292;&#37027;&#37324;&#26377;&#26356;&#22810;&#30340;&#20154;&#21475;&#32418;&#21033;&#21487;&#20197;&#21507;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## doctor_who

roy_gourav said:


> What a beast, amazing plane! Kudos to China
> 
> On a different note, what happens when every other country has a 5th gen plane? I mean US and its allies including the Euro union will have F-22 and/or F-35, India-Russia will eventually have PAK-FA, China with its J-20 and Pakistan will most likely get few J-20's too. Is it not F-16/18, EF-Typhoon/Rafael/ SU-30/J-10 all over again?


*
Americans will come up with new sixth gen fighter by the time every body will have fifth gen. 

they will pioneer the new technology- again the chase begins may be less distance but still- too far ahead.*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Mani2020

Congrats to China and Chinese people.its indeed a big day in the history of China .

Indeed a history in the making

May you make 1000's of these beasts

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

doctor_who said:


> *
> Americans will come up with new sixth gen fighter by the time every body will have fifth gen.
> 
> they will pioneer the new technology- again the chase begins may be less distance but still- too far ahead.*



They come up with X-37B, and we have our Shenlong.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cold-Fire

&#161;&#161;&#161;&#161;&#161;&#161;&#161;CONGRATULATION!!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## conworldus

I don't think J-20 is designed to counter the F-22 because I doubt that the J-20 is as agile close up. From distance neither will fire because both are stealth.

I think the J-20 will be extremely effect in attacking aircraft carriers because it is big enough to carry powerful anti-ship missile, can evade radar, and has enough range to strike carriers from well beyond the range of F-22 and F-35. Basically I see the J-20 strikes the carrier, and supercruises away with the F-22 in pursuit, and then the smaller, more agile fighters like the J-11 and J-10 will take dogfight to the chasing F-22s which can no longer hide.


----------



## monitor

test flight happens today but when we can see some maneuver conducted by j-20 ?


----------



## Pak1Samurai

Is it going is it going is it goingggggggggggg   
congratzzzzzzzzzzz chinaaaaaaaaaaaa

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 500

SpArK said:


> If they can manage a fighter, as beautiful and designed to perfection like this, I dont think there would be a problem with engine.


Number of countries which produce own engines is much lower than number of countries which produce planes. Its signifiant that Chinese engines are now mature enough to use them in maiden flight.

BTW, nice date for the maiden flight: 01.11.11. Congrats.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## below_freezing

There is no need to be jealous or angry here, except if you're a right wing American/Japanese. This is not only a victory for China but for all Asians and residents of developing countries, including Indians, including Pakistanis. We have proven that we are just as smart as the white man. The era when they called us "boy" and had entrances for "Asiatics and Coloreds" vs. "Europeans" was over, but they've just switched to more subtle forms of racism just as bad as "Colored" and "European" entrances. 50 years ago, general Peng Dehuai said: &#35199;&#26041;&#20405;&#30053;&#32773;&#20960;&#30334;&#24180;&#26469;&#21482;&#35201;&#22312;&#19996;&#26041;&#19968;&#20010;&#28023;&#23736;&#19978;&#26550;&#36215;&#20960;&#23562;&#22823;&#28846;&#23601;&#21487;&#38712;&#21344;&#19968;&#20010;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#26102;&#20195;&#26159;&#19968;&#21435;&#19981;&#22797;&#36820;&#20102;. The century where Western imperialists can conquer a nation with a few coastal cannons, will never come back. Today, we can say, &#35199;&#26041;&#20405;&#30053;&#32773;&#20960;&#21313;&#24180;&#26469;&#21482;&#35201;&#27966;&#20960;&#33368;&#33322;&#27597;&#21435;&#19996;&#20122;&#30340;&#36817;&#28023;&#23601;&#21487;&#21523;&#21804;&#19968;&#20010;&#22269;&#23478;&#30340;&#26102;&#20195;&#26159;&#19968;&#21435;&#19981;&#22797;&#36820;&#20102;&#65281;The decades where western imperialists can threaten a country with a few carriers in East Asia's coastal waters, is now over!

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Martian2

Note: Thank you to "maozedong" and "dingyibvs" for the pictures.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Arrey it's just the first flight!
Long time to go till it becomes operational.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## monitor

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Arrey it's just the first flight!
> Long time to go till it becomes operational.



Not very long .i think they will start mass production within 5~6 years .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

monitor said:


> Not very long .i think they will start mass production within 5~6 years .



Plz don't teach me.
Compare other 5th gen's first flight and then the time when they become operational.
Well taking out an average it might come out in 2019-20.


----------



## cross1993

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Plz don't teach me.
> Compare other 5th gen's first flight and then the time when they become operational.
> Well taking out an average it might come out in 2019-20.



2015-2017.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ao333

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Arrey it's just the first flight!
> Long time to go till it becomes operational.



Can you give us your prediction of when MCA "becomes operational?" It's still a wind tunnel model as of today...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

cross1993 said:


> 2015-2017.



Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When the planned introduction by the military is 2017-2019 how can u say 2015-2017?

putting in some normal/usual delays i said 2019-20.
But earlier than planned? how can this be done?


----------



## below_freezing

conworldus said:


> I don't think J-20 is designed to counter the F-22 because I doubt that the J-20 is as agile close up. From distance neither will fire because both are stealth.
> 
> I think the J-20 will be extremely effect in attacking aircraft carriers because it is big enough to carry powerful anti-ship missile, can evade radar, and has enough range to strike carriers from well beyond the range of F-22 and F-35. Basically I see the J-20 strikes the carrier, and supercruises away with the F-22 in pursuit, and then the smaller, more agile fighters like the J-11 and J-10 will take dogfight to the chasing F-22s which can no longer hide.



though the large body will reduce maneuverability, canards should make up for it. with a thrust vectored engine, it may even exceed the F-22's maneuverability. the body shape is more suited for bombing than the F-22 but it definitely isn't a bomber like the B-1 or B-2. after all, look at the Su-27: it is a huge plane but it is extremely maneuverable.

If it was not that maneuverable, it wouldn't need canards. But anyhow, even if it is not optimized against F-22, it could be quite powerful against F-35 due to supercruise and canards, against earlier airplane like F-15/16/18, and of course due to larger payload, against surface targets.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## below_freezing

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> When the planned introduction by the military is 2017-2019 how can u say 2015-2017?
> 
> putting in some normal/usual delays i said 2019-20.
> But earlier than planned? how can this be done?



Our general said first flight in 1 year (2009/11). Almost exactly in 1 year, (14 months), the first flight occured. He also said combat ready in 2017. I believe him.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

below_freezing said:


> Our general said first flight in 1 year (2009/11). Almost exactly in 1 year, (14 months), the first flight occured. He also said combat ready in 2017. I believe him.



Well can't argue because it's a thing that will take time to come.
So no one can be sure.
BTW,Congratz!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aeolushu

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Arrey it's just the first flight!
> Long time to go till it becomes operational.



not necessarily a long time. The actual first flight succeeded long ago. This "first flight" is just a show

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## gowthamraj

Congratulation chinese , that's a master piece i would say 



Is aunty sam watching this

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cross1993

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> When the planned introduction by the military is 2017-2019 how can u say 2015-2017?
> 
> putting in some normal/usual delays i said 2019-20.
> But earlier than planned? how can this be done?



Why do you think Chinese people will go the time(J20 by the military) sent to the web?
It is a fake.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

cross1993 said:


> Why do you think Chinese people will go the time(J20 by the military) sent to the web?
> It is a fake.



Mate,that's what i said,we can't argue/debate for a thing,whose operational date is not known!


----------



## Martian2

This is an exciting milestone for China's military aviation. The development and successful flight of China's J-20 stealth fighter will enable China to keep potential aggressors away from her coastline. The era of foreign imperialism and coercion is coming to an end. This is a great achievement for everyone that believes in world peace.

(Note: I agree with Below_Freezing.)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Brotherhood

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Plz don't teach me.
> Compare other 5th gen's first flight and then the time when they become operational.
> Well taking out an average it might come out in 2019-20.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cross1993

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Mate,that's what i said,we can't argue/debate for a thing,whose operational date is not known!



My friend, You don't know the habits of Chinese people.

We will announce the expected worst, So that if successful we will be praised, and if not successful we would not have been accused of.

This is an old philosophy: &#23613;&#26368;&#22823;&#30340;&#21162;&#21147;&#65292;&#20570;&#26368;&#22351;&#30340;&#20934;&#22791;&#12290;


According to expert assessment, it is the fastest in 2015.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Brotherhood said:


>


What??
The 5th gen we have to use have already been tested and might be with us well before you.
Did you really need to post that pic?Forcefully starting a verbal tussle?



cross1993 said:


> My friend, You don't know the habits of Chinese people.
> 
> We will announce the expected worst, So that if successful we will be praised, and if not successful we would not have been accused of.
> 
> This is an old philosophy: &#23613;&#26368;&#22823;&#30340;&#21162;&#21147;&#65292;&#20570;&#26368;&#22351;&#30340;&#20934;&#22791;&#12290;


Well that's a different story to think about then!


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

I am not going off topic by trolling.
I already congratulated.
I just said that it's the first flight.
And there's a lot of different in first flight and becoming operational/fully prepared.


----------



## Brotherhood

Punjabbi Munda said:


> What??
> *The 5th gen we have to use have already been tested and might be with us well before you.*Did you really need to post that pic?Forcefully starting a verbal tussle?
> 
> 
> Well that's a different story to think about then!



Your's 5 gen? some honesty will be much appreciate

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## rockstarIN

Congrats Chinese bros..its a big leap...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Areesh

ao333 said:


> There had been significantly fewer Vietnamese and Indian trolls on J-20 threads than I anticipated.



Well ao333 was missing Bharati trolls. Well here we have one.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Brotherhood said:


> Your's 5 gen? some honesty will be much appreciate



Use of Wikipedia also much appreciated.
Collaboration with software and hardware and mostly Economic assistance by India(that's what matters),we can say that the 5th gen(you know which one ) is ours.
Btw,do you really need a 'versus' discussion again?
Did i ever bring India into discussion.
It all started with the pic you posted.


----------



## cross1993

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Use of Wikipedia also much appreciated.
> Collaboration with software and hardware and mostly Economic assistance by India(that's what matters),we can say that the 5th gen(you know which one ) is ours.
> Btw,do you really need a 'versus' discussion again?
> Did i ever bring India into discussion.
> It all started with the pic you posted.



Wikipedia information on the J20 from the CJDBE forums.... Lol...
It is not rigorous on the J20.


----------



## conworldus

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Use of Wikipedia also much appreciated.
> Collaboration with software and hardware and mostly Economic assistance by India(that's what matters),we can say that the 5th gen(you know which one ) is ours.
> Btw,do you really need a 'versus' discussion again?
> Did i ever bring India into discussion.
> It all started with the pic you posted.



T-50 is tested, but not the FGFA which is still on paper.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 500

conworldus said:


> I don't think J-20 is designed to counter the F-22 because I doubt that the J-20 is as agile close up. From distance neither will fire because both are stealth.


1) The large size of J-20 will allow it to carry a powerful AESA radar. Such radar can easily detect 1m2 RCS target from 200 km. That means it will see 0.01 m2 stealth jet from over 60 km. Thats far far beyond the visual range (about 5 km).
2) Even within the visual range HMD + TVC short range missiles drastically reduce the importance of agility. Thats why F-35 has quite mediocre agility. 
3) With powerful TVC engines J-20 may have an excellent agility. However I agree that stealth and large internal weapon bays were higher priority for J-20 designers than agility. Super maneuverability is good for air shows, but real wars are different.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## PoKeMon

below_freezing said:


> There is no need to be jealous or angry here, except if you're a right wing American/Japanese. This is not only a victory for China but for all Asians and residents of developing countries, including Indians, including Pakistanis. We have proven that we are just as smart as the white man. The era when they called us "boy" and had entrances for "Asiatics and Coloreds" vs. "Europeans" was over, but they've just switched to more subtle forms of racism just as bad as "Colored" and "European" entrances. 50 years ago, general Peng Dehuai said: &#35199;&#26041;&#20405;&#30053;&#32773;&#20960;&#30334;&#24180;&#26469;&#21482;&#35201;&#22312;&#19996;&#26041;&#19968;&#20010;&#28023;&#23736;&#19978;&#26550;&#36215;&#20960;&#23562;&#22823;&#28846;&#23601;&#21487;&#38712;&#21344;&#19968;&#20010;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#26102;&#20195;&#26159;&#19968;&#21435;&#19981;&#22797;&#36820;&#20102;. The century where Western imperialists can conquer a nation with a few coastal cannons, will never come back. Today, we can say, &#35199;&#26041;&#20405;&#30053;&#32773;&#20960;&#21313;&#24180;&#26469;&#21482;&#35201;&#27966;&#20960;&#33368;&#33322;&#27597;&#21435;&#19996;&#20122;&#30340;&#36817;&#28023;&#23601;&#21487;&#21523;&#21804;&#19968;&#20010;&#22269;&#23478;&#30340;&#26102;&#20195;&#26159;&#19968;&#21435;&#19981;&#22797;&#36820;&#20102;&#65281;The decades where western imperialists can threaten a country with a few carriers in East Asia's coastal waters, is now over!



very well said. Congrats.
If we asian can solve our own differences ourselves then we can say that half job is done. It will shut the mouth of western nations as well as their arms factory which are the main source of their income.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gowthamraj

@Punjabbi Munda 

Brother India's fifth gen fighter not even work started in paper 


Btw chinese dont have the habit of showing incomplete product. We will see j-20 flying in chinese air force within five years



Then my only wish is chinese great rise in world must be peacefull one


----------



## Speeder 2

500 said:


> 1) The large size of J-20 will allow it to carry a powerful AESA radar. Such radar can easily detect 1m2 RCS target from 200 km. That means it will see 0.01 m2 stealth jet from over 60 km. Thats far far beyond the visual range (about 5 km).
> 2) Even within the visual range HMD + TVC short range missiles drastically reduce the importance of agility. Thats why F-35 has quite mediocre agility.
> 3) With powerful TVC engines J-20 may have an excellent agility. However I agree that stealth and large internal weapon bays were higher priority for J-20 designers than agility. Super maneuverability is good for air shows, but real wars are different.



hei , where is your coffee, dude?


----------



## Speeder 2




----------



## gowthamraj

IND_PAK said:


> very well said. Congrats.
> If we asian can solve our own differences ourselves then we can say that half job is done. It will shut the mouth of western nations as well as their arms factory which are the main source of their income.



+ 1. 

The cooperation is much needed btw India and china. But the big break for that is border dispute which makes insecurity among the peoples . Hope border dispute solve peacefully


----------



## a1b2c145

gowthamraj said:


> Congratulation chinese , that's a master piece i would say
> 
> 
> 
> Is aunty sam watching this



Both China and India need more efforts to catch up with the "Old Europe" ! 
Chinese Photoshop is very good

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gowthamraj

^ India is not able to particpate in that race until congress ruling India


----------



## JonAsad

&#24685;&#21916;&#20013;&#22269;&#65292;
&#26364;&#32852;&#19982;&#32511;&#33394;&#24895;&#20320;&#39134;&#24471;&#27604;&#36739;&#39640;&#30340;&#34013;&#35843;&#21644;&#26708;&#23376;&#12290;

Google Translate

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aimarraul



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## a1b2c145

gowthamraj said:


> @Punjabbi Munda
> 
> Brother India's fifth gen fighter not even work started in paper
> 
> 
> Btw chinese dont have the habit of showing incomplete product. We will see j-20 flying in chinese air force within five years
> 
> 
> 
> Then my only wish is chinese great rise in world must be peacefull one



Might more than five years!


----------



## mr_cool

Congratulations China! Keep up the good work! 

Next development...11-Jan-2012 - Aircraft carrier?? lol 

Anyway, here is the link on the bbc...

China conducts first test-flight of stealth plane

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ghoster

congratulations Chinese...............gud work.........

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sancho

Congrats China, you surprised the world and especially the western countries again!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aimarraul



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Brotherhood

aimarraul said:


>




Beautiful pictures bro, thanks for sharing.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## gowthamraj

a1b2c145 said:


> Might moreinartsrinm years!


May be but i think it will enter service before pak fa


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Lankan Ranger

*China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in flight

Action starts at 3:31 in the video*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mani2020

I m desperately waiting for *gambit*

Do you guys?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## HongWu

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> &#25454;&#20869;&#24149;&#28040;&#24687;&#65292;2020&#24180;&#20043;&#21069;&#35201;&#21344;&#39046;&#31532;&#19968;&#23707;&#38142;&#65292;&#21040;&#37027;&#26102;&#20505;&#31859;&#24093;&#20272;&#35745;&#20063;&#34987;&#23427;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#20840;&#29699;&#25112;&#30053;&#25302;&#24471;&#24046;&#19981;&#22810;&#20102;&#65292;&#20877;&#21152;&#19978;&#31070;&#40857;&#65292;&#26159;&#21487;&#20197;&#20986;&#25163;&#30340;&#26102;&#20505;&#20102;&#12290;


&#23545;&#30340;&#65292;&#35201;&#31361;&#30772;&#32654;&#22269;&#30340;&#21253;&#22260;&#19968;&#23450;&#35201;&#36873;&#25321;&#26368;&#24369;&#12289;&#26368;&#23396;&#21333;&#30340;&#32852;&#30431;&#25104;&#21592;&#12290;

&#26085;&#26412;&#19982;&#21360;&#24230;&#30456;&#27604;&#65292;&#21518;&#32773;&#26356;&#24369;&#12290;&#32780;&#19988;&#21360;&#24230;&#23545;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#36807;&#39640;&#35780;&#20215;&#21644;&#35199;&#26041;&#22269;&#23478;&#25925;&#24847;&#32473;&#19982;&#21360;&#24230;&#30340;&#36807;&#39640;&#35780;&#20215;&#20250;&#20351;&#24471;&#21360;&#24230;&#36133;&#20183;&#20043;&#21518;&#22269;&#23478;&#30340;&#31934;&#31070;&#23436;&#20840;&#23849;&#28291;&#12290;&#25152;&#20197;&#19981;&#29992;&#30495;&#30340;&#25171;&#36133;&#21313;&#20159;&#20154;&#21475;&#65292;&#21482;&#35201;&#23567;&#35268;&#27169;&#30340;&#24443;&#24213;&#25171;&#36133;&#21360;&#24230;&#65292;&#20877;&#26469;&#19968;&#27425;1962&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#36825;&#20010;&#22269;&#23478;&#24456;&#23481;&#26131;&#23601;&#20998;&#35010;&#20102;&#12290;

&#21360;&#24230;&#19968;&#26086;&#22446;&#21488;&#20998;&#35010;&#65292;&#24456;&#22810;&#20122;&#27954;&#23567;&#22269;&#23478;&#23601;&#33258;&#28982;&#30340;&#21548;&#35805;&#20102;&#12290;&#27431;&#27954;&#20063;&#19981;&#20250;&#20687;&#32769;&#32654;&#37027;&#20040;&#31215;&#26497;&#30340;&#21387;&#21046;&#20013;&#22269;&#65292;&#36824;&#26377;&#20160;&#20040;&#21644;&#24179;&#22870;&#12290;&#37027;&#26102;&#20505;&#21478;&#19968;&#20010;&#22823;&#25932;&#20154;&#65292;&#26085;&#26412;&#65292;&#20063;&#24456;&#23396;&#31435;&#20102;&#12290;&#20013;&#22269;&#37027;&#26102;&#25110;&#35768;&#21487;&#20197;&#22312;&#26085;&#26412;&#32463;&#27982;&#38543;&#30528;&#20154;&#21475;&#30340;&#32769;&#40836;&#21270;&#22823;&#22823;&#34928;&#24369;&#20043;&#21518;&#65292;&#21644;&#24179;&#35848;&#21028;&#12290;

*&#24635;&#20043;&#65292;&#26368;&#26041;&#20415;&#24320;&#20992;&#30340;&#22269;&#23478;&#65292;&#23601;&#26159;&#35828;&#35805;&#26368;&#22840;&#24352;&#65292;&#35013;&#30340;&#26368;&#20982;&#29467;&#30340;&#38463;&#19977;&#65281;*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## chinautumn

>

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Lankan Ranger



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cross1993

HongWu said:


> &#23545;&#30340;&#65292;&#35201;&#31361;&#30772;&#32654;&#22269;&#30340;&#21253;&#22260;&#19968;&#23450;&#35201;&#36873;&#25321;&#26368;&#24369;&#12289;&#26368;&#23396;&#21333;&#30340;&#32852;&#30431;&#25104;&#21592;&#12290;
> 
> &#26085;&#26412;&#19982;&#21360;&#24230;&#27604;&#36739;&#65292;&#21518;&#32773;&#26356;&#24369;&#12290;&#32780;&#19988;&#21360;&#24230;&#23545;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#36807;&#39640;&#35780;&#20215;&#21644;&#35199;&#26041;&#22269;&#23478;&#25925;&#24847;&#32473;&#19982;&#21360;&#24230;&#30340;&#36807;&#39640;&#35780;&#20215;&#20250;&#20351;&#24471;&#21360;&#24230;&#36133;&#20183;&#20043;&#21518;&#22269;&#23478;&#31934;&#31070;&#23436;&#20840;&#23849;&#28291;&#12290;&#25152;&#20197;&#19981;&#29992;&#30495;&#30340;&#25171;&#36133;&#21313;&#20159;&#20154;&#21475;&#65292;&#21482;&#35201;&#23567;&#35268;&#27169;&#30340;&#24443;&#24213;&#25171;&#36133;&#21360;&#24230;&#65292;&#20877;&#26469;&#19968;&#27425;1962&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#36825;&#20010;&#22269;&#23478;&#24456;&#23481;&#26131;&#23601;&#20998;&#25955;&#20102;&#12290;
> 
> &#21360;&#24230;&#19968;&#26086;&#22446;&#21488;&#20998;&#25955;&#65292;&#24456;&#22810;&#20122;&#27954;&#23567;&#22269;&#23478;&#23601;&#33258;&#28982;&#30340;&#21548;&#35805;&#20102;&#12290;&#27431;&#27954;&#20063;&#19981;&#20250;&#20687;&#32769;&#32654;&#37027;&#20040;&#31215;&#26497;&#30340;&#21387;&#21046;&#20013;&#22269;&#65292;&#36824;&#26377;&#20160;&#20040;&#21644;&#24179;&#22870;&#12290;&#37027;&#26102;&#20505;&#21478;&#19968;&#20010;&#22823;&#25932;&#20154;&#65292;&#26085;&#26412;&#65292;&#20063;&#24456;&#23396;&#31435;&#20102;&#12290;&#20013;&#22269;&#37027;&#26102;&#25110;&#35768;&#21487;&#20197;&#31561;&#26085;&#26412;&#32463;&#27982;&#38543;&#30528;&#20154;&#21475;&#30340;&#32769;&#40836;&#21270;&#22823;&#22823;&#34928;&#24369;&#20043;&#21518;&#65292;&#21644;&#24179;&#35848;&#21028;&#12290;
> 
> *&#24635;&#20043;&#65292;&#26368;&#26041;&#20415;&#24320;&#20992;&#30340;&#22269;&#23478;&#65292;&#23601;&#26159;&#26368;&#35805;&#35762;&#30340;&#26368;&#22840;&#24352;&#65292;&#35013;&#30340;&#26368;&#20982;&#29467;&#30340;&#38463;&#19977;&#65281;*




&#20320;&#30693;&#36947;&#21527;&#65311;&#19981;&#35828;&#26368;&#37325;&#30340;99&#22374;&#20811;&#20102;&#65292;&#23601;&#31639;40T&#32423;&#30340;96&#24335;&#22374;&#20811;&#20063;&#26080;&#27861;&#36816;&#36807;&#38738;&#34255;&#39640;&#21407;&#12290;&#23601;&#31639;&#19990;&#30028;&#19978;&#26368;&#22909;&#30452;&#21319;&#26426;&#20063;&#26080;&#27861;&#22312;&#39640;&#21407;&#19978;&#24037;&#20316;&#12290;&#22696;&#33073;&#20844;&#36335;&#29978;&#33267;&#26080;&#27861;&#20445;&#35777;&#37027;&#24597;&#19968;&#20010;&#24072;&#30340;&#21518;&#21220;&#12290;

&#20320;&#20026;&#20160;&#20040;&#32769;&#24819;&#30528;&#21644;&#21360;&#24230;&#20154;&#24320;&#25112;&#65311;&#35753;PLA&#25343;&#30528;&#36731;&#27494;&#22120;&#21644;&#21360;&#24230;&#20154;&#33707;&#21517;&#20854;&#22937;&#30340;&#25340;&#21629;&#65311;&#36824;&#26159;&#35828;&#20320;&#20854;&#23454;&#26159;&#24819;&#24110;&#30528;&#23459;&#20256;&#19968;&#19979;&#20013;&#22269;&#23041;&#32961;&#35770;&#65311;

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## 500

Comparison:

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## aimarraul

&#21738;&#26377;&#20320;&#35828;&#30340;&#37027;&#20040;&#24754;&#21095;&#65292;&#31561;&#19977;&#26465;&#36827;&#34255;&#38081;&#36335;&#37117;&#20462;&#36890;&#20102;&#65292;&#20848;&#24030;&#65292;&#22235;&#24029;&#65292;&#20113;&#21335;&#65292;&#26032;&#30086;&#22235;&#20010;&#20891;&#21306;&#21487;&#20197;&#21516;&#26102;&#25903;&#25588;&#65292;&#26410;&#26469;&#22823;&#36816;&#20063;&#36275;&#20197;&#20445;&#35777;&#37325;&#22411;&#35013;&#22791;&#30340;&#25112;&#30053;&#25237;&#36865;


&#38401;&#19979;&#30340;&#35745;&#21010;&#26159;&#24456;&#22909;&#65292;&#23601;&#26159;&#19981;&#35813;&#25552;&#21069;&#36890;&#30693;&#20154;&#23478;&#65292;&#26377;&#20123;&#20107;&#21482;&#33021;&#20570;&#19981;&#33021;&#35828;&#65292;&#20160;&#20040;&#37117;&#25670;&#22312;&#26126;&#22788;&#23601;&#19981;&#21644;&#35856;&#20102;,&#21360;&#24230;&#26263;&#22320;&#37324;&#37117;&#25903;&#25345;&#36798;&#36182;&#20960;&#21313;&#24180;&#20102;&#65292;&#20154;&#23478;&#36824;&#19981;&#26159;&#25972;&#22825;&#39640;&#21898;&#8220;&#21453;&#23545;&#20219;&#20309;&#20154;&#22312;&#21360;&#24230;&#20174;&#20107;&#21453;&#21326;&#34892;&#20026;&#8221;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## unicorn

The greatest thing you can do is surprise yourself.China has just done that.
Congratulations!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Mani2020 said:


> I m desperately waiting for *gambit*
> 
> Do you guys?



Oh yes, I remember Gambit's analysis. Oh...the software probably doesn't work because the wheel positions look funny. What a load of anti-China misinformation.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 500



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Anima

baker said:


> Congrats to all chineese friends......
> 
> when we lauched our 4th Gen fighter.. you guys Lauched ur 5th Gen....
> you guys are really ahead of us many miles.... hope we can catch up with china in near future....


Like theJ-10,LCA is also the milestone to India. The process could be miserable but Through this project people learnt how to build a jet fighter the the following development(like 5th Gen) would be much more smoother. When speak of national security, China takes much more pressure than India. That's why we have kept a step ahead of India:we are motivated and determined.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ares

cross1993 said:


> 2015-2017.



*Official timeline given is 2017-19.*

BBC News - China conducts first test-flight of stealth plane


----------



## Martian2

Enjoy!

Note: Thank you to "MwRYum" for the pictures.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## siegecrossbow

Hmm now we have to wait for IOC. It might take long but the day will come...

Why don't we have a bet? I go with 2015.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## siegecrossbow

New picture, taken from the J-10S's cockpit:

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## huzihaidao12

ares said:


> *Official timeline given is 2017-19.*
> 
> BBC News - China conducts first test-flight of stealth plane



Where is the official?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakchina

Congratulations to China and longlived to the all weather China-Pakistanese friendship and brotherhood. Despite the US embargoes on everything, despite the constant China bashing by the West, despite the military bullying, despite being the constant and easy target for all the US sins, China is becoming the next superpower which the US and its allies must reckon.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Speeder 2

^^^WOW ! nice pic seigecreossbow! 


btw, the traffic here seems to have knocked down the server of PDF earlier today ??

And some ppl suspect that there is no weapon bay there... anyone cares to illustrate the issue clearer?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ares

huzihaidao12 said:


> Where is the official?



*"China says it expects the stealth plane to be operational some time between 2017 and 2019."*

BBC News - China conducts first test-flight of stealth plane


----------



## huzihaidao12

&#27809;&#26377;&#22270;&#33021;&#30830;&#23450;&#65292;&#20854;&#20182;&#35770;&#22363;&#20063;&#26377;&#19968;&#20123;&#35752;&#35770;&#65292;&#21482;&#26159;&#25512;&#35770;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## huzihaidao12

ares said:


> *"China says it expects the stealth plane to be operational some time between 2017 and 2019."*
> 
> BBC News - China conducts first test-flight of stealth plane



Not an official statement. Very vague and did not specify.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Speeder 2

Martian2 said:


> Oh yes, I remember Gambit's analysis. Oh...the software probably doesn't work because the wheel positions look funny. What a load of anti-China misinformation.



* i bet gamboy is holding his purple pump and its 5-yr gurtantee at a counter of BestBuy at the moment, asking for refund! *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ares

huzihaidao12 said:


> Not an official statement. Very vague and did not specify.



Do you have any statement which perhaps is *"more official"* than this one and suggesting a different time line?


----------



## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

congratulations every body.............. hurrraaaaaaaaaaa

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## siegecrossbow

Speeder 2 said:


> ^^^WOW ! nice pic seigecreossbow!
> 
> 
> btw, the traffic here seems to have knocked down the server of PDF earlier today ??
> 
> And some ppl suspect that there is no weapon bay there... anyone cares to illustrate the issue clearer?



Nothing conclusive but there are speculations.

Check this picture out:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## casual

looks like a bomber more then a multirole fighter because of it's size

this bird is a lot more dangerous then the f35 due to range and payload. that is if china can deliver on the ws-15


----------



## gpit

Congratulations guys! What an achievement!

Meanwhile cant help but feel bad for some:

a)	First, the EU. They still pose military embargo on China. *LOL!* Theyve missed heft of opportunities of making huge money. They instead now sell their countries to China (Chinas purchase of their treasuries, and clever Japanese follow the suit today). Maybe China should sell J-20 to EU later, a downgraded version of course. What a humiliation to them!

b)	Second, the fanatic. He asserted that there is a serious software problem because the left rudder turns this way and wheels turn that way. Blahblah. *LOL again!* China was, is, and continues to be underestimated by ideological crusaders across the planet.

c)	Third, a handful anti-China clown countries/persons around China and beyond. *LOL the third time!* Listen: if the Chinese want to live their way of life, WTF you want to impose your values upon them? Simple truth: there got to be more than one road that leads to Rome.

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## siegecrossbow

casual said:


> looks like a bomber more then a multirole fighter because of it's size
> 
> this bird is a lot more dangerous then the f35 due to range and payload. that is if china can deliver on the ws-15



Bomber's don't need canards for added manueverability.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cloneman

siegecrossbow said:


> Bomber's don't need canards for added manueverability.



Also no need the all moveable tail.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dbc

First congratulations to you and all Chinese members on the maiden flight of the J-20. China has come a long way in a relatively short period, I wager the J-20 is the first of many future achievements.



siegecrossbow said:


> Bomber's don't need canards for added manueverability.



That is incorrect, canards were introduced to allow STOL (short take off or landing) to overcome low speed stall endemic to delta planforms.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> Oh yes, I remember Gambit's analysis. Oh...the software probably doesn't work because the wheel positions look funny. What a load of *anti-China* misinformation.


Anti?  This is the typical reaction of those who cannot handle legitimate challenges. Even wonder why I do not consider criticisms of the F-22 to be 'anti' anything as long as the criticisms remain in the technical realm?


----------



## chinautumn

siegecrossbow said:


> New picture, taken from the J-10S's cockpit:



it means that this picture was uploaded by the official?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dbc

chinautumn said:


> it means that this picture was uploaded by the official?



my guess is photoshop, don't see any control surface deflection on the J-20

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## warrior_pk

congratulations to all Chinese brothers.Keep working hard with self belief that u have and you will be a true super power in every sense.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## casual

Death.By.Chocolate said:


> my guess is photoshop, don't see any control surface deflection on the J-20



landscape doesn't match chengdu either

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

RPT-New Chinese fighter jet expected by 2018: US intel

By Jim Wolf

WASHINGTON, May 20 (Reuters) - China is building an advanced combat jet that may rival within eight years Lockheed Martin Corp's (LMT.N) F-22 Raptor, the premier U.S. fighter, a U.S. intelligence official said.

The date cited for the expected deployment is years ahead of previous Pentagon public forecasts and may be a sign that China's rapid military buildup is topping many experts' expectations.

"We're anticipating China to have a fifth-generation fighter ... operational right around 2018," Wayne Ulman of the National Air and Space Intelligence Center testified on Thursday to a congressionally mandated group that studies national security implications of U.S.-China economic ties.

"Fifth-generation" fighters feature cutting-edge capabilities, including shapes, materials and propulsion systems designed to make them look as small as a swallow on enemy radar screens.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates had said last year that China "is projected to have no fifth-generation aircraft by 2020" and only a "handful" by 2025.

He made the comments on July 16 to the Economic Club of Chicago while pushing Congress to cap F-22 production at 187 planes in an effort to save billions of dollars in the next decade.

Ulman is China "issues manager" at the center that is the U.S. military's prime intelligence producer on foreign air and space forces, weapons and systems. He said China's military was eyeing options for possible use of force against Taiwan, which Beijing deems a rogue province.

The People's Liberation Army, as part of its Taiwan planning, also is preparing to counter "expected U.S. intervention in support of Taiwan," he told the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission.

He said the PLA's strategy included weakening U.S. air power by striking air bases, aircraft carrier strike groups and support elements if the U.S. stepped in.

Attacks against U.S. "basing infrastructure" in the western Pacific would be carried out by China's air force along with an artillery corps' conventional cruise missile and ballistic missile forces, he said outlining what he described as a likely scenario.

He described China as a "hard target" for intelligence-gathering and said there were a lot of unknowns about its next fighter, a follow-on to nearly 500 4th generation fighters "that can be considered at a technical parity" with older U.S. fighters.

"It's yet to be seen exactly how (the next generation) will compare one on one with say an F-22," Ulman told the commission. "But it'll certainly be in that ballpark."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

cloneman said:


> Also no need the all moveable tail.


Actually, the absence of rear horizontal stabilators make more prominence the all-moving vertical stabs. Not a necessity, but only that the designers will push the all-moving v-stabs into the fore. The issues are stability controls during maneuvers and leverage points that forces act upon. If you look at the positions of the canards you will see that they are at the very narrow area of the body -- forward fuselage. Asymmetric deflections by the canards to perform a roll maneuver will impart a twisting force upon this part of the aircraft. You can look up the v-tail Bonanza general aviation aircraft for an example of this. So for a design *WITHOUT* all-moving rear horizontal stabs whose forces act upon the wider and stronger areas of the fuselage, the J-20's all-moving vertical stabs seems quite the necessity to assist the delta wings' ailerons and to maintain stability in maneuvers.


----------



## Speeder 2

gambit said:


> Anti?  This is the typical reaction of those who cannot handle legitimate challenges. Even wonder why I do not consider criticisms of the F-22 to be 'anti' anything as long as the criticisms remain in the technical realm?



The left rudder thing - it&#180;s basically so typical antis'behaviour - trying to pick a bone from an egg , to be frank,  cuz the plane had zero speed and the pilot could be engaging all sorts of testing movements of the body parts without a formal engagement of inflight computer which, IMO, could be activitated automatically once the plane&#180;speed is up such as in takeoff run, or be manually swtiched to a sort of Flight Control Mode.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## siegecrossbow

Death.By.Chocolate said:


> my guess is photoshop, don't see any control surface deflection on the J-20



Confirmed photoshop now lol. The guy who started the thread is now getting his share...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Speeder 2

siegecrossbow said:


> Nothing conclusive but there are speculations.
> 
> Check this picture out:



TX!

Yet i still can NOT see a thing there...

nonetheless, my logic goes: since there's clear sth bulky down there, how the heck it's that technologically demanding and/or time consuming to cut a door out of it to make a weapon bay ? ... thus whatever happens, the bay/s must be down there. We just can't see it/them from current pics.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Donatello

Just a few months ago we were discussing how Russia is ahead in stealth plane tech.......


I guess China is just showing the world what it is capable of. Of course further testing will take time, but the money they are pouring in means a lot of the problems can be solved. By the size of the plane it doesn't look like a close combat fighter like F-22 rather a strike plane.

But it seems to be a tech demonstrator........also i read that the chase plane was J-10S......what are the details on this "S" version....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## scuthan

penumbra said:


> Just a few months ago we were discussing how Russia is ahead in stealth plane tech.......
> 
> 
> I guess China is just showing the world what it is capable of. Of course further testing will take time, but the money they are pouring in means a lot of the problems can be solved. By the size of the plane it doesn't look like a close combat fighter like F-22 rather a strike plane.
> 
> But it seems to be a tech demonstrator........also i read that the chase plane was J-10S......what are the details on this "S" version....



"S" for "Shuang" means "double" in Chinese (twin seat)
you can get the details on huitong's website (google "huitong"&"top81")

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cera



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Speeder 2

Honestly I kinda of wish that J-REX D) were larger. It wouldn't be "murderous" enough to me if it proves otherwise, since we all know that larger means more weapons and /or fuel thus more advantages over F-35/ F-22/ Pak Fa ( given it seems to have less prob with supercruise now if WA-15 is likely to be delivered as per promise).

Questions here are:

1/ what's its wing area, etc? so that some freaks, oh sorry, I mean Learned Men, could calculate some high mach top speed indication it could reach ( if WS-15 is delivered as such)

2/ according to its belly, about how many weapons it could carry vis-&#225;-vis F-22 / F-35? Alternatively, with equal weapon loads (if it has far larger belly than F-22/35), what extra fuel thus miles it could cover than the latter two.

These 2 answers / perspectives could also help us see clearer what's the true intention of the designer. I am sicken tried of so called "strategic bomber" that some keep referring it to be.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## siegecrossbow

penumbra said:


> I guess China is just showing the world what it is capable of. Of course further testing will take time, but the money they are pouring in means a lot of the problems can be solved. By the size of the plane it doesn't look like a close combat fighter like F-22 rather a strike plane.



Personally I don't see why there is this obsession with the J-20 being a strike plane.

Take a closer look at the bomb bay area, you can tell that the landing gears are in the way. If side intakes like those employed on the F-22 were employed I don't think you can fit anti-ship missiles and what not into that space.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cera

Wait, the "first" flight is fake, here are some prove...

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Martian2

penumbra said:


> I guess China is just showing the world what it is capable of. Of course further testing will take time, but the money they are pouring in means a lot of the problems can be solved. By the size of the plane it doesn't look like a close combat fighter like F-22 rather a strike plane.



I do not agree with this claim. Others have noted that a large fighter with bigger wings will have more lift. It is not clear that a larger fighter will be less maneuverable than a smaller fighter.

Is an eagle necessarily less maneuverable than a falcon? The eagle is larger, but it also has a larger wingspan.

In an earlier post, I mentioned that the J-20 is only about 0.7 meter longer than the YF-23 Black Widow. The YF-23 was designed to be an air-superiority fighter. Similarly, it is reasonable to believe that the J-20 was designed for the same purpose as the YF-23.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WAQAS119

Had I missed the show?????
Something was disturbing me while I was sleeping so I just woke up late at 2 am and when I started my PC I was like 

Congrats China

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Speeder 2 said:


> The left rudder thing - it´s basically so typical anits' behaviour - trying to pick a bone from an egg , to be frank,  cuz the plane had zero speed and the pilot could be engaging all sorts of testing movements of the body parts without a *formal enganment of in flight computer* which, IMO, could be activitated automatically once the plane´speed is up such as in take off run, or being manually swtiched to a sort of Flight Control Mode.


Your argument is based upon ignorance and I do not use the word 'ignorance' in an insulting manner. It is the truth.

In a fly-by-wire flight control system, the FLCS computer cannot be switched on/off at will. The FLCS computer sits between the pilot and the rest of the aircraft. Prior to fbw, flight control laws are governed by hard mechanical connections. With fbw, we have to write those laws. We can write them via electronic engineering as in the analog F-16A/B generation. Later we wrote them in software in the C/D digital generation and this standard continues to this day.

You may not like my argument about a potential software bug, which is properly called a 'Byzantine' failure in the avionics industry, but here is a tragic example of such a 'bug'...

Nagoya A300 Accident Report


> While the aircraft was making an ILS approach to Runway 34 of Nagoya Airport, under manual control by the F/O, the F/O inadvertently activated the GO lever, which changed the FD (Flight Director) to GO AROUND mode and caused a thrust increase. This made the aircraft deviate above its normal glide path.
> 
> The APs were subsequently engaged, with GO AROUND mode still engaged. Under these conditions the F/O continued pushing the control wheel in accordance with the CAP's instructions. As a result of this, the THS (Horizontal Stabilizer) moved to its full nose-up position and caused an abnormal out-of-trim situation.
> 
> The crew continued approach, unaware of the abnormal situation. The AOA increased the Alpha Floor function was activated and the pitch angle increased.
> 
> It is considered that, at this time, the CAP (who had now taken the controls), judged that landing would be difficult and opted for go-around. The aircraft began to climb steeply with a high pitch angle attitude. The CAP and the F/O did not carry out an effective recovery operation, and the aircraft stalled and crashed.



The Airbus A300 is a fly-by-wire FLCS system. The accident above is an example of where the FLCS was unable to cope with a conflict in modes of operations. The avionics industry call this an 'incompetence' fault. The word 'incompetence' is not meant for the aircrew for certainly they are well trained and experienced. The word 'incompetence' is meant to attribute to the inability of the FLCS to cope with the conflict created by the accidental activation of the 'go around' lever.



> ...the F/O *inadvertently activated the GO lever*, which changed the FD (Flight Director) to GO AROUND mode and caused a thrust increase. This made the aircraft deviate above its normal glide path.


The proposed changed was to have the lever redesigned to remove this potentiality. Coping with conflicting modes that could be demanded by the pilot versus the current environment is something that the flight controls laws must be able to either resolve or alert the pilot to the conflict. The sophistication of these laws depends on the education and experience of their designers.

You may not like these facts I presented but the cheap personal attacks you boys threw up at me in response to a legitimate query reveals more about you than it is about me.


----------



## siegecrossbow

cera said:


> Wait, the "first" flight is fake, here are some prove...



Lol that is ironic considering most PS are supposed to fake something, not prove that something is fake.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

Give me a break. You're the only person on ALL six forums, which I frequent, that has claimed a software problem. Total malarkey.

Show me a single published article from Aviation Week, Jane's Defence, or any reputable publication regarding an alleged software problem.

The J-20 successfully flew for 18 minutes and landed. Your software problem is anti-China sentiment and misinformation. Give it a rest.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

I am an aerospace engineer and I wish I worked in this project.

Chinese pride.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> Give me a break. You're the only person on ALL six forums that I frequent that has *claimed a software problem.* Total malarkey.
> 
> Show me a single published article from Aviation Week, Jane's Defence, or any reputable publication regarding an alleged software problem.


Wrong...I said 'suspected'. By the way, Aviation Week never suspected the presented problem in the A300's software until too late.


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> I do not agree with this claim. Others have noted that a large fighter with bigger wings will have more lift. It is not clear that a larger fighter will be less maneuverable than a smaller fighter.
> 
> *Is an eagle necessarily less maneuverable than a falcon?* The eagle is larger, but it also has a larger wingspan.
> 
> In an earlier post, I mentioned that the J-20 is only about 0.7 meter longer than the YF-23 Black Widow. The YF-23 was designed to be an air-superiority fighter. Similarly, it is reasonable to believe that the J-20 was designed for the same purpose as the YF-23.


Yes it is. Have you been reading our resident former F-15 pilot forum member regarding what he said about going up against the F-16? Of course not. He has experience and therefore that make his opinions invalid...


----------



## Martian2

gambit said:


> Wrong...I said 'suspected'. By the way, Aviation Week never suspected the presented problem in the A300's software until too late.



I give up. You're just going to keep claiming "suspected this," "alleged that," and other nonsense. It is still standard FUD practice. You're trying to create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt; a very nasty tactic.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## siegecrossbow

^^ Dude just chill out and let it go.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> I give up. You're just going to keep claiming "suspected this," "alleged that," and other nonsense. It is still standard FUD practice. You're trying to create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. A very nasty tactic.


Versus you boys' fantastic claims about this aircraft even before its debut recently? I see it as bringing the entire issue more down to Earth.


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

HongWu said:


> &#25105;&#25903;&#25345;&#65281;
> 
> &#26085;&#26412;&#12289;&#21360;&#24230;&#12289;&#32654;&#22269;&#37117;&#19981;&#24895;&#24847;&#36319;&#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063;&#20849;&#20139;&#36825;&#20010;&#19990;&#30028;&#12290;&#20182;&#20204;&#23545;&#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063;&#30340;&#25932;&#24847;&#22826;&#26126;&#26174;&#20102;&#65281;&#36825;&#26159;&#20182;&#20204;&#25991;&#21270;&#30340;&#26680;&#24515;&#37096;&#20998;&#65292;&#36319;&#21476;&#26102;&#20195;&#30340;&#34542;&#20154;&#27809;&#26377;&#20004;&#26679;&#12290;&#22914;&#21516;&#27721;&#26397;&#19982;&#21256;&#22900;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#38656;&#35201;&#28781;&#25481;&#21608;&#36793;&#30340;&#37326;&#34542;&#20154;&#25165;&#33021;&#26377;&#20010;&#20809;&#33635;&#30340;&#26410;&#26469;&#12290;
> 
> &#20013;&#22269;&#20154;&#24819;&#35201;&#36861;&#27714;&#21644;&#24179;&#65292;&#36861;&#27714;&#20849;&#23384;&#65292;&#20854;&#23454;&#37117;&#26159;&#27450;&#39575;&#33258;&#24049;&#65292;&#38463;Q&#31934;&#31070;&#32780;&#24050;&#12290;&#25243;&#24323;&#25481;&#19968;&#20999;&#30340;&#24187;&#24819;&#65292;&#20934;&#22791;&#25112;&#20105;&#65281;




%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

I agree 60%. Disagree 40%

1. I agree get ready for war. 
2. I agree the Han Chinese vs. Mongo part 100%.

3. I disagree to fight American, Japanese, Indian at the same time. The current US-indian alliance is WEAK. Both side is only using each other but fighting any one of them will arlam them all and strengthen their alliance, even forge a Japan-America-india alliance. If we want to fight, we must be fully prepared and FIGHT THE WEAKEST one with the loudest talking mouth. Crush him and then move on to the next.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Beskar

Now that's an awesome news! Go China Go! 

Historic event for sure. Balance of power ... It's happening!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dbc

AerospaceEngineer said:


> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> 
> I agree 60%. Disagree 40%
> 
> 1. I agree get ready for war.
> 2. I agree the Han Chinese vs. Mongo part 100%.
> 
> 3. I disagree to fight American, Japanese, Indian at the same time. The current US-indian alliance is WEAK. Both side is only using each other but fighting any one of them will arlam them all and strengthen their alliance, even forge a Japan-America-india alliance. If we want to fight, we must be fully prepared and FIGHT THE WEAKEST one with the loudest talking mouth. Crush him and then move on to the next.



Why don't you and HongWu get a room? And leave the rest of us to discuss the thread topic

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kompromat

Bezerk said:


> Now that's an awesome news! Go China Go!
> 
> Historic event for sure. *Balance of power* ... It's happening!



Shift of power

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

Death.By.Chocolate said:


> Why don't you and HongWu get a room? And leave the rest of us to discuss the thread topic




Oh, sorry got off topic. HongWu is very knowledgeble and I got carried away talking to him.

Let's get back to topic.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beskar



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## koolio

Fantastic news, great going China, Im sure this will send shivers down for the US but nothing to be alarmed off obviously F22 raptor is operational whereas the J20 is in testing stages but nevertheless great achievement.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ares

cera said:


>



This is an obvious Photoshop considering 2001 is spelt backwards.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GareebNawaz

i love it.. well done China


----------



## Speeder 2

gambit said:


> Your argument is based upon ignorance and I do not use the word 'ignorance' in an insulting manner. It is the truth.
> 
> In a fly-by-wire flight control system, the FLCS computer cannot be switched on/off at will. The FLCS computer sits between the pilot and the rest of the aircraft. Prior to fbw, flight control laws are governed by hard mechanical connections. With fbw, we have to write those laws. We can write them via electronic engineering as in the analog F-16A/B generation. Later we wrote them in software in the C/D digital generation and this standard continues to this day.
> 
> You may not like my argument about a potential software bug, which is properly called a 'Byzantine' failure in the avionics industry, but here is a tragic example of such a 'bug'...
> 
> Nagoya A300 Accident Report
> 
> 
> The Airbus A300 is a fly-by-wire FLCS system. The accident above is an example of where the FLCS was unable to cope with a conflict in modes of operations. The avionics industry call this an 'incompetence' fault. The word 'incompetence' is not meant for the aircrew for certainly they are well trained and experienced. The word 'incompetence' is meant to attribute to the inability of the FLCS to cope with the conflict created by the accidental activation of the 'go around' lever.
> 
> 
> The proposed changed was to have the lever redesigned to remove this potentiality. Coping with conflicting modes that could be demanded by the pilot versus the current environment is something that the flight controls laws must be able to either resolve or alert the pilot to the conflict. The sophistication of these laws depends on the education and experience of their designers.
> 
> You may not like these facts I presented but the cheap personal attacks you boys threw up at me in response to a legitimate query reveals more about you than it is about me.




NO, you are confusing about several things:

*FBW *means *Fly *by Wire, not *Move *by Wire. Since when the first button that a pilot presses after he sits into a cockpit must automatically activate FBW software as if he were at 30,000 feet? 

And since when all FBW software around the world must be exactly the same, specifying in the first line of codes that all major parts, rudders especially, must move in perfect sync rejecting any manuel orders of pilots at all times even at "*Mode 0*" before and after in-flight, whithout some clear cut-off lines to seperate different operating staue modes amongst the codes?

No, it is *NOT *a *LAW*, aka Physical Laws etc, as you wrongly asserted, but merely a *RULE*, the in-fight and off-flight control *RULE * which includes *FBW software*; both *RULE *and *FBW *are set and written by *MEN*, and *MEN *are different, at least very different at *Mode 0*. This renders your above lengthy reasoning *obsolete *.


By *"Mode 0 "* I meant Still Statue before takeoff or after it, not in-flight.

In an analogy one can *legitimately *find it odd if one 100m sprinter moves both his arms in the same direction while his is running in the final cuz it&#8217;s against intuition, norm and most importantly a natural law. But he is perfectly OK (* not illegitimate*) to do so before the running or after running while he&#8217;s warming up his arms and legs, flirting with a beautiful chic reporter - *"Mode 0", *which logically has little to do with violating any physical law, intuition, or norm - in-flight fbw software control in this case, particularly when the pilot was obviously busy at posturing the major body parts of J-REX for a photo-op as the picture showed.


----------



## GareebNawaz

AerospaceEngineer said:


> &#37;%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> 
> I agree 60%. Disagree 40%
> 
> 1. I agree get ready for war.
> 2. I agree the Han Chinese vs. Mongo part 100%.
> 
> 3. I disagree to fight American, Japanese, Indian at the same time. The current US-indian alliance is WEAK. Both side is only using each other but fighting any one of them will arlam them all and strengthen their alliance, even forge a Japan-America-india alliance. If we want to fight, we must be fully prepared and FIGHT THE WEAKEST one with the loudest talking mouth. Crush him and then move on to the next.



by loudest talking mouth you imply Indians.... i love chinese people and their willingness to destroy India. Always gets a good laugh out of me. Supreme ruler of the universe.. All Hail PRC...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## siegecrossbow

ares said:


> This is an obvious Photoshop considering 2001 is spelt backwards.



No. The photo is just flipped horizontally.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Speeder 2 said:


> NO, you are confusing about several things:
> 
> *FTW *means *Fly *by Wire, not *Move *by Wire.


Good Avionics God In Heaven...!!! In all my years of serving You, my Lord, in and out of the military, never have I heard such nonsense and from a civilian at that.

Speedy, pal. You are way out of your league. Fly by wire *IS* move by wire. There are *NO* mechanical linkages between the pilot and the rest of the aircraft. All commands *MUST* be routed through the flight control computer. There are no on/off switch for this. The only mechanical actuators in the system are by the surfaces themselves and they are hydraulics.



Speeder 2 said:


> Since when the first button that a pilot presses after he sits into a cockpit must automatically activate FBW software as if he were at 30,000 feet?


There are no such 'button'. If there is such a 'button' and if it is in 'off' position, pray tell how are the actuators going to move?



Speeder 2 said:


> No, it is *NOT *a *LAW*, aka Physical Laws etc, as you wrongly asserted, but merely a *RULE*, the in-fight and off-flight control *RULE * which includes *FBW software*; both *RULE *and *FBW *are set and written by *MEN*, and *MEN *are different, at least very different at *Mode 0*. This renders your above lengthy reasoning *obsolete *.
> 
> 
> By *"Mode 0 "* I meant Still Statue before takeoff or after it, not in-flight.
> 
> In an analogy one can *legitimately *find it odd if one 100m sprinter moves both his arms in the same direction while his is running in the final cuz its against intuition, norm and most importantly a natural law. But he is perfectly OK (* not illegitimate*) to do so before the running or after running while hes warming his arms and legs, flirting with a beautiful chic reporter - *"Mode 0", *which logically has little to do with violating any physical law, intuition, or norm - in-flight fbw software control in this case, particularly when the pilot was obviously busy at posturing for a photo-op as the picture showed.


No such thing as 'flight controls laws' you say?

Airbus Flight Control Laws

Read and see how foolish you look.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## siegecrossbow

GareebNawaz said:


> by loudest talking mouth you imply Indians.... i love chinese people and their willingness to destroy India. Always gets a good laugh out of me. Supreme ruler of the universe.. All Hail PRC...



He never said that the country with the loudest talking mouth was India. You are making the implications here, not him.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ares

siegecrossbow said:


> No. The photo is just flipped horizontally.








[/QUOTE]







The 2001 on port(left) side of the Photoshop pic is taken from starboard (right)side of aircraft.

You can comapre the above pic to this one.






Which too is also an obvious PS ..alas a better one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Speeder 2

gambit said:


> Good Avionics God In Heaven...!!! In all my years of serving You, my Lord, in and out of the military, never have I heard such nonsense and from a *civilian *at that.



Civilian? Pauleeeez! 

Address me Dr Civilian, Dr Speeder actually, soilder ! 




gambit said:


> *Speedy, pal. You are way out of your league.* Fly by wire *IS* move by wire. There are *NO* mechanical linkages between the pilot and the rest of the aircraft. All commands *MUST* be routed through the flight control computer. *There are no on/off switch for this*. The only mechanical actuators in the system are by the surfaces themselves and they are hydraulics.



Yes, *pal*, I may be out of my league in some specific military knowhow where you have an edge ( and I appreciate it) , but you are way out of your league in general knowledge level that this case is also concerned.

OKE, assume that it is correct that no mechnical linkage btw pilot and machine, only FBW, *no problem*.

All commands go to FBW, ok, *no problem*.

But *"There are no on/off switch for this" you said *? --->>> * Bullshit!* There might not be any hardware switches, but FBW software , like all other software codes, *is full of "what -if " soft switches*.





gambit said:


> There are no such 'button'. If there is such a 'button' and if it is in 'off' position, pray tell how are the actuators going to move?
> 
> 
> No such thing as 'flight controls laws' you say?
> 
> 
> Read and see how foolish you look.




FBW is full of *soft* buttons and rules via *"if -then " codes*, where I am *100&#37; certain* as general logic dictates that FBW rules differently when the said plane is in different speed modes; and *I am 100% certain *that FBW can identify the current speed of the plane ( "if "), and act accordingly to a slightly different rules ( "then"), particularly in the situation where it is prefectly understandable and logical for the plane to have completely set of flexibilities when at still or near still speed , say between 0 and 10 mph, or even between 0 and 5 mph, as per the photo.

Get a grip!


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

GareebNawaz said:


> by loudest talking mouth you imply Indians.... i love chinese people and their willingness to destroy India. Always gets a good laugh out of me. Supreme ruler of the universe.. All Hail PRC...



Oh, you got offended. Well, I am just talking about reality. You are not an Indian that hates Chinese, great.

But your government are saying one thing while doing another. I hope you are not to concerned aboiut my comment. It is true, China and India are heading towards war. We Chinese have to be prepared.
The war is however, avoidble, that depend on how Indian people correctly view Chinese and understanding Chinese people. 

But now, most Indians are not doing that.


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

You see soooooooooooooooooooooooo many indians trolls on other Chinese related threads this only tells that Indians have a grudge against us Chinese. 

However, on the J-20 threads most Indians, Russians, Viets are silenced. Why, cause they simply can not take the facts that Chinese did something great. Which is ok. Their views on Chinese are completely from the wrong SOURCE. You as an Indian who has a correct view on Chinese should not be concering about me saying these stuffs, if your people keeping trolling and trolling thenn it will keep alarming us Chinese about your TRUE COLOR!

Instead, you as an Indian who has a correct view on Chinese people and maybe Chinese government should go tell other Indians the TRUTH about Chinese, instead of arguing with me, what I think and decide is conpleted affect by what Indians do, NOT what you say. No one was born to hate something at birth.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jet Li



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

Speeder 2 said:


> Civilian? Pauleeeez!
> 
> Address me Dr Civilian, Dr Speeder actually, soilder !


Yeah...A quack doctor.



Speeder 2 said:


> Yes, *pal*, I may be out of my league in some specific military knowhow where you have an edge ( and I appreciate it) , but you are way out of your league in general knowledge level that this case is also concerned.


And what area of general knowledge will that be?



Speeder 2 said:


> OKE, assume that it is correct that no mechnical linkage btw pilot and machine, only FBW, *no problem*.
> 
> All commands go to FBW, ok, *no problem*.


There are no assumptions about this. In a pure fly-by-wire flight controls system, there are no mechanical linkages between the cockpit and the surfaces.



Speeder 2 said:


> But *"There are no on/off switch for this" you said *? --->>> * Bullshit!* There might not be any hardware switches, but FBW software , like all other software codes, *is full of "what -if " soft switches*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FBW is full of *soft* buttons and rules via *"if -then " codes*, where I am *100% certain* as general logic dictates that FBW rules differently when the said plane is in different speed modes; and *I am 100% certain *that FBW can identify the current speed of the plane ( "if "), and act accordingly to a slightly different rules ( "then"), particularly in the situation where it is prefectly understandable and logical for the plane to have completely set of flexibilities when at still or near still speed , say between 0 and 10 mph, or even between 0 and 5 mph, as per the photo.
> 
> Get a grip!


Software switches? Gee whiz...Why did I not think of that from all those years in avionics. By the way, check out this man...

Putting teamwork on the radar - 2008-04-01 06:00:00 | Test & Measurement World

Anyway...If this is an attempt to salvage your failed argument, it is an epic fail built upon a previous epic fail. The one who is trying to pass his BS here is *YOU* because the crux of your argument rests upon a pilot selectable hard switch...As implied here...



Speeder 2 said:


> NO, you are confusing about several things:
> 
> *FBW *means *Fly *by Wire, not *Move *by Wire. Since when the first button that a pilot presses after he sits into a cockpit must automatically activate FBW software as if he were at 30,000 feet?


Now after you did some googling and found out how spectacularly wrong you are, you had to resort to software switches as if I do not know what I am talking about? Give me a break. In fact, I either explained or alluded to these software switches in previous posts.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/1220308-post27.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/873222-post22.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/863933-post1937.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/590295-post29.html

These software switches are not pilot selectable. Gains and degrees of surface responses are created and executed without pilot intervention and that reduction in pilot workload is the intention of an augmented FLCS and eventually a pure fly-by-wire FLCS in maintaining stability.

So are there such things as flight controls laws? Yes, this is real physics. A 'law' is a directive that has adverse consequences if that directive is not obeyed. The word 'flight' in flight controls laws does not mean these laws are applicable only upon wheels off ground but they are applicable from engine start to engine off. This is where you are confused.


----------



## Shak

Cognates to China. Very hard working people indeed. Indians must learn from Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## topjumper

Are we still talking about j-20's inward twisted rudder here and whether it is a software related issue? One member pointed it out a couple of days ago that on the ground it might be used for braking purposes, this seems to be echoed by guys from some other forums, someone also suggested that the large angled inward rudder displacement is used to generate more "nose up pitching moment". link


----------



## Redstorm

&#35831;&#35828;&#33521;&#35821;&#65292;&#35874;&#35874;&#65281; Please speak english&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;

&#21457;&#35328;&#21069;&#20808;&#20180;&#32454;&#27983;&#35272;&#19979;&#32622;&#39030;&#30340;&#20013;&#25991;&#24086;&#23376; &#20013;&#22269;&#21516;&#32990;&#20204;&#30475;&#36807;&#26469;&#65292;&#20837;&#20065;&#38543;&#20439;&#12290;


----------



## Redstorm

cross1993 said:


> &#32654;&#22269;&#30340;&#38712;&#26435;&#20043;&#25152;&#20197;&#36208;&#21521;&#34928;&#24369;&#23601;&#26159;&#22240;&#20026;&#29359;&#20102;&#20004;&#20010;&#22823;&#38169;&#35823;&#65306;
> 1&#65292;&#20182;&#20204;&#28781;&#20129;&#20102;&#33487;&#32852;&#12290;
> &#22914;&#26524;&#33487;&#32852;&#20170;&#22825;&#20173;&#28982;&#23384;&#22312;&#65292;&#37027;&#20040;&#20013;&#22269;&#21644;&#27431;&#27954;&#20250;&#32487;&#32493;&#36319;&#30528;&#32654;&#22269;&#30340;&#25351;&#25381;&#26834;&#36208;&#65292;&#22823;&#23478;&#19968;&#36215;&#23545;&#20184;&#26469;&#33258;&#21271;&#26041;&#30340;&#24378;&#22823;&#23041;&#32961;&#12290;&#20294;&#33487;&#32852;&#27809;&#20102;&#65292;&#25152;&#20197;&#27431;&#20803;&#21644;RMB&#20986;&#29616;&#20102;&#65292;&#27431;&#27954;&#25512;&#20986;&#20102;&#22320;&#20013;&#28023;&#35745;&#21010;&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#20063;&#25552;&#20986;&#20102;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#25919;&#27835;&#35201;&#27714;&#12290;&#32769;&#24067;&#20160;&#34987;&#36843;&#21457;&#21160;&#20102;&#28023;&#28286;&#25112;&#20105;&#65292;&#35753;&#32654;&#22278;&#21644;&#30707;&#27833;&#25346;&#38057;&#65292;&#24310;&#32493;&#20102;&#32654;&#22269;&#38712;&#26435;&#30340;&#23551;&#21629;&#65292;&#36825;&#20063;&#26159;&#20182;&#20204;&#25903;&#25345;&#20197;&#33394;&#21015;&#30340;&#21407;&#22240;&#12290;
> &#20859;&#36156;&#33258;&#37325;&#65292;&#20820;&#27515;&#29399;&#28921;&#26174;&#28982;&#32654;&#22269;&#20154;&#19981;&#25026;&#36825;&#20010;&#36947;&#29702;&#12290;
> 2&#65292;&#36164;&#26412;&#20027;&#20041;&#23500;&#35029;&#20102;&#32654;&#22269;&#65292;&#20294;&#26497;&#31471;&#36164;&#26412;&#20027;&#20041;&#26368;&#32456;&#20250;&#27585;&#28781;&#32654;&#22269;&#12290;
> &#32654;&#22269;&#19981;&#26029;&#23558;&#24037;&#19994;&#24448;&#22806;&#36801;&#31227;&#65292;&#26412;&#22303;&#36234;&#26469;&#36234;&#20559;&#21521;&#37329;&#34701;&#31561;&#39640;&#31471;&#34892;&#19994;&#12290;&#34429;&#28982;&#30475;&#19978;&#21435;&#24456;&#32654;&#22909;&#65292;&#20294;&#36825;&#20854;&#23454;&#19981;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#22823;&#22269;&#24212;&#35813;&#37319;&#29992;&#30340;&#25919;&#31574;&#12290;&#19968;&#20010;&#22823;&#22269;&#26368;&#37325;&#35201;&#30340;&#23646;&#24615;&#23601;&#26159;&#20840;&#38754;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#30340;&#30446;&#26631;&#26159;&#36229;&#32423;&#38712;&#26435;&#65292;&#32780;&#19981;&#26159;&#21152;&#22823;&#29256;&#30340;&#29790;&#22763;&#12290;&#38752;NBA&#29699;&#26143;&#25110;&#32773;&#21326;&#23572;&#34903;&#24459;&#24072;&#20160;&#20040;&#30340;&#26080;&#27861;&#25745;&#36215;&#19968;&#20010;&#22823;&#22269;&#30340;&#33034;&#26753;&#12290;
> ====================
> &#23545;&#20110;&#20013;&#22269;&#26469;&#35828;&#65292;&#20840;&#29699;&#21270;&#30340;&#19990;&#30028;&#24182;&#19981;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#24378;&#21270;&#33258;&#24049;&#26159;&#21066;&#24369;&#21035;&#20154;&#30340;&#19990;&#30028;&#12290;&#24403;&#28982;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#27704;&#36828;&#20570;&#19990;&#30028;&#24037;&#21378;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#20063;&#35201;&#20570;&#39640;&#31471;&#65292;&#20294;&#36825;&#19981;&#20195;&#34920;&#30528;&#25105;&#20204;&#23601;&#20250;&#25918;&#24323;&#20302;&#31471;&#24037;&#19994;&#65292;&#21407;&#22240;&#22043;&#65306;
> 1&#65292;&#22312;&#38750;&#27954;&#21644;&#21360;&#24230;&#23436;&#25104;&#24037;&#19994;&#21270;&#20934;&#22791;&#20043;&#21069;&#65292;&#27809;&#26377;&#21738;&#20010;&#22269;&#23478;&#21487;&#20197;&#39030;&#26367;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#29983;&#20135;&#20219;&#21153;&#12290;&#32780;&#20174;&#36825;&#20004;&#20010;&#22320;&#26041;&#30340;&#20154;&#21475;&#32032;&#36136;&#65288;&#35782;&#23383;&#29575;&#20581;&#24247;&#29366;&#20917;&#31561;&#65289;&#21644;&#22522;&#24314;&#27700;&#24179;&#26469;&#30475;&#65292;&#26242;&#26102;&#19981;&#20855;&#22791;&#22823;&#35268;&#27169;&#25509;&#29677;&#30340;&#26465;&#20214;&#12290;
> 2&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#20250;&#23558;&#24037;&#19994;&#21521;&#35199;&#37096;&#36801;&#31227;&#65292;&#37027;&#37324;&#26377;&#26356;&#22810;&#30340;&#20154;&#21475;&#32418;&#21033;&#21487;&#20197;&#21507;&#12290;



Please speak english&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;


----------



## aimarraul



Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Akasa

The number 11/11/01 (the date of the flight) in Western culture means strong will, determination, and perseverance.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Guest

@gambit
I'm not sure if J-20 still keeps a michanical flight control system, but what if it does, then the pilots can still turn off its FBW (although the possibility is extreemly low). the reason i said the possibility is extreemly low is because we got much better and "bugs free" control systems now, so don't compare A300's decades-old FBW with our lattest systems. We used exactly the same testing tools that is being used by NASA and Lockheed Martin. In this regard, we have a much better kick off compare to that of the F-22s' in the 1990s.

as to the "law", what if i told you that there is no or little "law" in X-36's FBW system at the beginning, and they are keep changing, by the plane itself, as it flights more hours. would you still consider law is a appropriate word.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

topjumper said:


> Are we still talking about j-20's inward twisted rudder here and whether it is a software related issue? One member pointed it out a couple of days ago that on the ground it might be used for braking purposes, this seems to be echoed by guys from some other forums, *someone also suggested that the large angled inward rudder displacement is used to generate more "nose up pitching moment".* link


Correct. But it is applicable to canted vertical stabilators to look like this...






The vertical stab is *NOT* the rudder. The vertical stab assembly contains the rudder, which are the movable slabs as seen above. Both rudders must deflect inward and they must be to the *SAME* degree, else there most likely be an adverse yaw condition. Remember, the v-stabs are off centerline, so there should be the same amount of aerodynamic down force on both. For both v-stabs, the greater from 90deg, the greater the aerodynamic assistance the v-stabs can be to the all-moving horizontal stabs in take-offs and landings. Once the nose and main landing gears have weight-on-wheels (WoW), it is a combination of gear brakes and aerodynamic drag to slow down the aircraft but the requirement that there should be equal aerodynamic force on both v-stabs is still the same. We do not want asymmetric forces for fear of adverse yaw.

So when we see this condition...






It is reasonable to question as to the justification as to why would anyone want to have asymmetric v-stab deflections. When the nose gear is turned as we see above, that mean the aircraft's ground speed is too slow for aerodynamic forces to be of any use. The right v-stab's deflection seems to be reasonable but what could cause or be the reason as to why should the left v-stab to deflect as great as it is.


----------



## S.U.R.B.

Someone made a perfect wallpaper for me.Don't know what's that written in Chinese but it looks cool: i'm thankful whoever he /she is....

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## S.U.R.B.

aimarraul said:


>



^^^^ He's crying isn't he??......emotions overflowing in the form of tear. (the looks on the face of others watching him also gives that impression.)
So was he the test pilot of J-20??
But the aircraft nearby is J-10 which was also in factory color.Could be the one who escorted the J-20.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mani2020

500 said:


>



Look at the canopy of T-50 vs the canopy of J-20 and F-22,

J-20 and F-22 have single piece bubble canopy while that of T-50 is conventional one like the most 4th generation aircraft had.This shows the ability of China to make something which russia still wouldnot managed (or atleast fail to operationalize ) 

Single piece Bubble canopy was only operationalized by USA origin aircrafts like f-16 and F-22 but good to see now Chinese incorporating things which were only possessed by USA

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## doctor_who

*where the hell is weapon bay ????
*
i spent half an hour on net to see it in detail but nothing there.

is it half cooked or they have found something totally unique ?


----------



## Mani2020

Speeder 2 said:


> * i bet gamboy is holding his purple pump and its 5-yr gurtantee at a counter of BestBuy at the moment, asking for refund! *



I think he is on vacations from the forum and waiting for the time when the news of J-20 will cool down then he might return back to forum


----------



## 500

Mani2020 said:


> Look at the canopy of T-50 vs the canopy of J-20 and F-22,
> 
> J-20 and F-22 have single piece bubble canopy while that of T-50 is conventional one like the most 4th generation aircraft had.This shows the ability of China to make something which russia still wouldnot managed (or atleast fail to operationalize )
> 
> Single piece Bubble canopy was only operationalized by USA origin aircrafts like f-16 and F-22 but good to see now Chinese incorporating things which were only possessed by USA


Yeah on this pic PAKFA looks 4 gen compare to F-22 and J-20. But this is a prototype still, will be changes.


----------



## 500

doctor_who said:


> *where the hell is weapon bay ????
> *
> i spent half an hour on net to see it in detail but nothing there.
> 
> is it half cooked or they have found something totally unique ?


If you look carefuly you can see stripes where could be weapon bays:






But nether J-20 nor PAK FA have weapon bays now. These are empty hulls for aerodynamic testing.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## marcos98

doctor_who said:


> *where the hell is weapon bay ????
> *
> i spent half an hour on net to see it in detail but nothing there.
> 
> is it half cooked or they have found something totally unique ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mani2020

double post


----------



## Mani2020

500 said:


> Yeah on this pic PAKFA looks 4 gen compare to F-22 and J-20. But this is a prototype still, will be changes.



Also look at the IRST position on T-50 as compared to J-20 and F-22 , T-50 looks more like a modified version of su-27 specially when you see at the air-intakes ,canopy and various other things,obviously the airframe has more oval shape when compared to su-27 .I think T-50 is in more RAW form when compared to J-20 as lot of systems on T-50 needs to be changed so it wouldnot be surprising for me if j-20 enters service much before than T-50


----------



## HongWu

aimarraul said:


> &#38401;&#19979;&#30340;&#35745;&#21010;&#26159;&#24456;&#22909;&#65292;&#23601;&#26159;&#19981;&#35813;&#25552;&#21069;&#36890;&#30693;&#20154;&#23478;&#65292;&#26377;&#20123;&#20107;&#21482;&#33021;&#20570;&#19981;&#33021;&#35828;&#65292;&#20160;&#20040;&#37117;&#25670;&#22312;&#26126;&#22788;&#23601;&#19981;&#21644;&#35856;&#20102;,&#21360;&#24230;&#26263;&#22320;&#37324;&#37117;&#25903;&#25345;&#36798;&#36182;&#20960;&#21313;&#24180;&#20102;&#65292;&#20154;&#23478;&#36824;&#19981;&#26159;&#25972;&#22825;&#39640;&#21898;&#8220;&#21453;&#23545;&#20219;&#20309;&#20154;&#22312;&#21360;&#24230;&#20174;&#20107;&#21453;&#21326;&#34892;&#20026;&#8221;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;


&#20320;&#30693;&#36947;&#25105;&#30475;&#38463;&#19977;&#37027;&#20010;&#22068;&#24052;&#30495;&#30340;&#21463;&#19981;&#20102;&#20102;&#65292;&#30495;&#30340;&#24819;&#25226;&#20182;&#20204;&#29408;&#29408;&#30340;&#39554;&#19968;&#39039;&#65292;&#33267;&#23569;&#20986;&#20986;&#27668;&#21527;&#12290;&#21621;&#21621;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GUNS-N- ROSES

congratulations to china. i dint really think it would come so early. but its good to hear someone break american monopoly.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Guest said:


> @gambit
> I'm not sure if J-20 still keeps a michanical flight control system, but what if it does, then the pilots can still turn off its FBW (although the possibility is extreemly low). the reason i said the possibility is extreemly low is because we got much better and "bugs free" control systems now, so don't compare A300's decades-old FBW with our lattest systems. We used exactly the same testing tools that is being used by NASA and Lockheed Martin. In this regard, we have a much better kick off compare to that of the F-22s' in the 1990s.
> 
> as to the "law", what if i told you that there is no or little "law" in X-36's FBW system at the beginning, and they are keep changing, by the plane itself, as it flights more hours. would you still consider law is a appropriate word.


Am going to give you and your boys a primer on flight controls systems that you will not learn on the Chinese B*BS*. Note the highlighted letters......By the time the lesson is done, you will be forced to exercise critical thinking skills, as this knowledge you cannot erase, every time you read some claims about the J-20 from anywhere.

Here we go...






There are two basic mechanical flight controls system (FLCS), the all mechanical and the hydraulically assisted. The above diagrams are not representative of all FLCS. Not all have pulleys, some have only push-pull rods, some have both. The diagrams are meant to show you these items that may or may not exist in any aircraft. The hydraulics are for 'heavy' aircrafts, like airliners, and high performance small aircrafts, like jet fighters. The hydraulics are usually 3000 lbs psi, or whatever metric you feel comfortable to convert. Suffice to say that it must be that high to move a flight control surface weighing a couple hundreds kilos.

Are there any flight controls laws here? Yes there are. Those mechanical connections are the laws. The pilot pulled back on the stick, the mechanical connections transmit that to the elevator. That is the law. We can change the law by configuring those mechanical connections so that if the pilot pull back on the stick 10 cm, the elevator will move 20 cm, or 30 cm, or even a meter. Or only 5 cm. The hydraulics are just to assist or to make it easier to move heavy surfaces. A poorly calibrated hydraulics system can affect these laws but I will keep this simple for now.

The pilot himself by virtue of his training and experience has his own set of flight controls laws. We call that 'knowledge' or 'seat of the pants' flying or 'feel' or 'aerobatics'. He is usually unconscious of these laws but just know they are there. For example...On take-off, he will pull back on the stick 20 cm. Later in flight where there are higher air speed over the elevator, if he wants to pull nose up, he knows it is safe to pull only 10 cm. He knows that too much elevator deflection with so much air speed moving across that surface could send him out of control. That is the law created from training and experience.






A step-up from the mechanical-hydraulics FLCS is the augmented or stability-augmentation system. There are pitch, roll, and yaw stab-aug systems for all three flight axes. We have a flight controls computer (FCC) and the section labeled 'Sensor' contains: gyroscopes, accelerometers, and air data (air speed and altitude) information. The actual physical locations of the gyros and the accelerometers are for a different discussion. This is a closed loop operation. The pilot input a command, such as pitch, meaning pulling/pushing on the control stick. At this moment, there is zero movement or rotation in the pitch (nose up/down) axis. The command is transmitted via those mechanical connections and actuate the elevator, nose up or down. As the aircraft respond, nose up/down, gyroscopes and accelerometers give feedbacks to the FCC, who then moderate the elevator's movement.

Now we have another set of flight controls laws inside the FCC. The FCC's job is to allow the pilot to pull back 10 cm on the stick at any time and it will move the elevator 5 cm, or 10 cm, or 20 cm, or even one meter. The FCC will use the information from the gyroscopes, acceleremters, and air data to calculate elevator deflection degrees. Can the pilot turn off the FCC's stability augmentation capability? Yes...But then the pilot would have nothing other than hydraulics to assist him. He would have to resort back to his own flight controls laws to maintain flight. For combat aircraft, losing the FLCS computer can be through battle damage. Just as we trained the pilot where every pilot knows the basic sets of flight controls laws, we now have to code or program a machine with complex flight controls laws to assist the pilot. The more sophisticated these automation flight controls laws are, the less work for the pilot to maintain flight so he can focus on other things, like bombing the godless pinko commies to hell where they belong...






Finally...We come to the pure fly-by-wire FLCS. There are no mechanical flight controls laws in the system, as in there are no push-pull rods or pulleys. There are the flight controls laws inside the pilot's head and there are the flight controls laws inside the FLCS computer. If battle damage render the FLCS computer inoperable, the pilot have to leave the aircraft. He has no way to use his own flight controls laws.

China does not know the codes for American 'stealth' fighter's FLCS so there is no way for you to assert that China is superior to US in this respect. But it is reasonable to assume who is probably the superior based upon experience. So who has the more experience in fly-by-wire technology? You think it is impossible for China to write faulty codes? What a child-like faith. You believe in Santa Claus as well? The world's most experienced fly-by-wire technologists, the US and Europe, made mistakes but never will China.


----------



## conworldus

500 said:


> Yeah on this pic PAKFA looks 4 gen compare to F-22 and J-20. But this is a prototype still, will be changes.



I bet the Ruskies are making frenetic changes to their T-50 right now after seeing the J-20. I don't think they want to be behind China in fighter development. T-50 is definitely far far from being a 5th gen fighter. Almost nothing visible right now is ready: the canopy is NOT ready, the airframe is not ready, the engines are not ready...

The T-50 is a modified Su27 and the J-20 is designed from ground up.


----------



## topjumper

gambit said:


> Correct. But it is applicable to canted vertical stabilators to look like this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The vertical stab is *NOT* the rudder. The vertical stab assembly contains the rudder, which are the movable slabs as seen above. Both rudders must deflect inward and they must be to the *SAME* degree, else there most likely be an adverse yaw condition. Remember, the v-stabs are off centerline, so there should be the same amount of aerodynamic down force on both. For both v-stabs, the greater from 90deg, the greater the aerodynamic assistance the v-stabs can be to the all-moving horizontal stabs in take-offs and landings. Once the nose and main landing gears have weight-on-wheels (WoW), it is a combination of gear brakes and aerodynamic drag to slow down the aircraft but the requirement that there should be equal aerodynamic force on both v-stabs is still the same. We do not want asymmetric forces for fear of adverse yaw.
> 
> So when we see this condition...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is reasonable to question as to the justification as to why would anyone want to have asymmetric v-stab deflections. When the nose gear is turned as we see above, that mean the aircraft's ground speed is too slow for aerodynamic forces to be of any use. The right v-stab's deflection seems to be reasonable but what could cause or be the reason as to why should the left v-stab to deflect as great as it is.



Yes, having symmetrical rudder displacement during flight makes sense because it increases the downward moment through air flow at the rear of the jet, so it helps the jet to raise its head for climbs or up turns etc. 

But it also makes sense to have asymmetrical rudder displacement to on the ground to aid speedy/tight horizontal turns, think of it like this:






Suppose the jet is trying to perform a tight left turn on the ground, it uses its engine to produce a forward thrust, if we pin our cartesian coordinates on the its airframe, the effects of the forward thrust is the same as having air flow relatively backwards on its frame, if we deflect the left rudder to a near perpendicular position to the incoming airflow while having the right rudder fixed tangential to the streamline, the it would generate a positive (counter-clockwise) moment on the aircraft frame, this essentially enhances the aircraft's ability to perform tight horizontal turns on a given level surface, at least it makes sense to me and I still do not think it is an un-intentional software glitch


----------



## Fighter488

*The Strategic Impact of China's J-XX [J-20]​*
*Stealth Fighter *
Air Power Australia - Australia's Independent Defence Think Tank


Air Power Australia NOTAM
9th January, 2011


Dr Carlo Kopp, SMAIAA, SMIEEE, PEng,
Head of Capability Analysis, Air Power Australia


The emergence of China's new J-XX [J-20] stealth fighter will have a profound strategic impact, for both the United States and its numerous Pacific Rim allies. There can be no doubt that it is proof positive of the absolute and complete failure of the current OSD driven plan for recapitalisation of the United States tactical fighter fleet, and the fleets of its allies. Like the Russian T-50 PAK-FA, the J-XX [J-20] is a game changer in the sense that the large scale deployment of operational production examples of these aircraft invalidates all of the key assumptions central to United States and allied air power and force structure planning and development, since the early 1990si. 

Whether the J-XX [J-20] is a proof of concept demonstrator, or a prototype for a volume production combat type, what the design demonstrates is that Chinese engineers have mastered advanced stealth shaping techniques. The design displays repeated application of United States developed shaping design rules used previously in the F-22 Raptor design, and in some portions of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter design. An observer unfamiliar with the background of the J-XX [J-20] could be forgiven for mistaking the type for a Lockheed-Martin developed productii. 

The accuracy with which the Chengdu engineers replicated key shaping features could be explained by their reverse engineering the design rules from high resolution imagery of US aircraft. However, it also begs some very good questions as to whether this engineering was directly or indirectly aided by less overt means. Exploitation of engineering data acquired by the alleged penetration of United States contractor computer networks would provide equally good or better technical resultsiii. 

Airframe shaping is absolutely critical in stealth design, and determines the bounds on the achievable Radar Cross Section performance of any design. If shaping is done poorly, the aft and lower fuselage design of the F-35 being a cardinal example, no amount of radar absorbent material or coating compatible with the weight and volume needs of fighter design will overcome the resulting performance problems. Conversely, if shaping is done right, the cardinal example being the B-2A Spirit, then progressive upgrades of the radar absorbent materials and/or coatings over the life of the design can be used to further improve its stealthiv. 

By cleverly exploiting contemporary United States developed stealth fighter shaping design rules, Chengdu engineers were able to rapidly get an excellent basic shaping design with a minimum of risk and cost, and significant long term stealth performance growth potential, as Chinese absorbent material and coating, frequency selective radome, low signature antenna and engine nozzle technology mature over time. A derivative of the J-XX [J-20] built in 2025 would thus have a much lower radar signature than a 2015 build of the same airframe.


*The Capability Potential of the J-XX [J-20] Stealth Fighter* 

While the introduction of robust stealth shaping is an unprecedented design feature for an indigenous Chinese fighter, another first is an airframe evidently designed for efficient supersonic cruise at high altitudes  the delta-canard configuration is not unlike that adopted by the Russians in the cancelled supercruising MiG MFI design. Supersonic cruise not only kinematically defeats most legacy fighters and Surface to Air Missiles, but confers additional launch range to Air-Air Missiles and smart bombs, provides an energy advantage when merging into close combat, and in a larger design like the J-XX [J-20], yields important productivity gains due to the ability to supercruise to and from targets. The latter can in many circumstances double the effective sortie rate of a bombervvi. 

In terms of gross sizing the J-XX [J-20] most closely resembles the smaller configurations proposed for the FB-22A theatre bomber, which was to be a dedicated bomber and ISR airframe, intended to supercruise to targets at combat radii in excess of 1,000 nautical miles, a niche occupied by the TAC/SAC GD F/FB-111 family of aircraft during the Cold War. Claims that the Chengdu design is a Sino-F-22A make little sense, if the latter were true the aircraft would be considerably smaller. Unlike the FB-22 proposals, the J-XX [J-20] is clearly intended for air combat and using a canard-delta configuration will provide both efficient supersonic cruise, and good supersonic and transonic manoeuvre performance if fitted with engines of sufficient thrust ratingvii. 

In technological strategy terms the combination of stealth and supercruise yields high lethality and survivability, supercruise yields high per-sortie productivity, and the sizing and thus combat radius of the airframe provide a basic design with the flexibility to be used effectively across the spectrum of roles covered by the Cold War design F/FB-111 and proposed FB-22 families of aircraft. The canard-delta airframe configuration if fully exploited yields sufficient agility to serve effectively in the spectrum of roles covered by the F-15C and F-22A. 

This design therefore provides the PLA-AF with an airframe which could be employed, subject to suitable avionic and weapons fit, across a range of strategically important roles: 


Long Range / Persistent Interceptor: in this role the J-XX [J-20] would be employed to deny access to the airspace within the footprint of the Second Island Chain, attacking opposing strike aircraft and their fighter escorts; 
Long Range Air Combat and Escort Fighter: in this role the J-XX [J-20] would be employed offensively, to punch holes through opposing air defences by engaging and destroying defending fighter Combat Air Patrols, AWACS/AEW&C aircraft, and supporting aerial refuelling tankers; 
Theatre Strike Fighter: in this role the J-XX [J-20] would attack surface targets, in the manner performed by the F/FB-111, F-15E and proposed FB-22, using guided conventional munitions or free fall nuclear bombs; the size of the aircraft would permit weapon bays large enough to carry 3,000 lb or larger bombs; 
Long Range Theatre Reconnaissance Aircraft: in this role the J-XX [J-20] would be employed to collect radar, imagery and electronic intelligence, emulating aircraft such as the RF-111C/D, the RA-5C, and F-14/TARPS but with the advantage of stealth absent in legacy theatre reconnaissance types; 
Electronic Attack Platform: in this role the J-XX [J-20] would be employed to suppress opposing radar and communications, using weapon bay carried support jamming equipment, in the manner of the EF-111A Raven; 
Anti-Satellite Weapon Launch Platform: in this role the J-XX [J-20] would be employed to lift and loft an ASAT missile against an LEO SV, in the manner the US Air Force employed the F-15A and the Vought ASM-135A ASAT during the mid 1980s.
The airframe self-evidently has the potential to be used in each of these niches, albeit with some niches occupied by specialised variants or subtypes. A single multirole variant could be employed across the first three roles without difficulty. The aircraft's size makes it a natural candidate for lateral evolution into other rolesviii. 





In terms of sizing, combat radius and exceptional survivability, the J-XX [J-20] occupies the same niche as the GD F/FB-111 family of aircraft did, presenting potential for evolution across a wide range of roles. Depicted FB-111A nuclear strategic bomber, EF-111A electronic attack aircraft and F-111B long range interceptor (US DoD images).









To what extent the PLA-AF and PLA-N air arm opt to exploit the potential of this design, or a derivative design, remains to be seen. Prudent strategic analysis however cannot rely on the notion that the PLA-AF and PLA-N air arm will not make full use of a potential capability the development of which has consumed without doubt considerable national treasure.




(US DoD)




The F-111/FB-22 sized J-XX [J-20] is clearly built to deny access to the Second Island Chain region (Chinese Internet).



Above, below: Histograms of distances between PLA-AF and PLA-N fixed basing along the eastern seaboard of mainland China and US airfields at Kadena AFB on Okinawa and Andersen AFB on Guam. The J-XX/J-20 is well sized to hold both of these bases at risk (Kopp, 2005). 









The PLA-AF fighter base at Feidong in the Nanjing MR [Click for more ...] is a good example of the design of a superhardened fighter base. The primary runway, available for takeoffs and landings, has a wide full length parallel taxiway to enable recoveries in the event of damage. An auxiliary take-off only alert runway is directly connected to the underground hangar entrance, allowing the fighter to roll out of the tunnel, line up, open the throttles and take off quickly. The PLA invested considerable thought into planning its network of 'superhardened' fighter bases, usually placing the runways behind a hill or mountain, relative to the threat axis. 


*The Strategic Impact of the J-XX [J-20] Stealth Fighter *

At this time there is no air defence system in Asia, including the organic capabilities of the US Navy CVBGs, which can reliably stop a mature long range supercruising stealth fighter, be it an F-22A Raptor, or a mature production export T-50 PAK-FA, or J-XX [J-20]. 

Western built Integrated Air Defence Systems (IADS) rely primarily on S-band, and to a lesser extent, L-band and UHF-band acquisition radars for land based, and shipboard use. 

Airborne Early Warning capabilities are similarly constrained, the E-3/E-767/APY-2 AWACS (US Air Force, Japan) operating in the S-band, the E-737 Wedgetail/MESA (South Korea, Australia) and G.550 CAEW / EL/M-2075 (Singapore) the L-band, and the E-2C/APS-145 (US Navy, Japan, Singapore) and E-2D/APY-9 (US Navy) in the UHF-band. 

While the L-band MESA and EL/M-2075, and UHF-band APY-9 will have significantly better detection performance against a J-XX [J-20] compared to an S-band radar such as the APY-2 or SPY-1 Aegis, it will be very much lower than that achievable against a non-stealthy conventional aerial targetix. 

As a result of the introduction of robust stealth capability, the coverage footprint of United States and allied IADS in the WestPac will be severely reduced, no differently than that of the Warsaw Pact IADS when confronted by the F-117A Nighthawk from 1985 onward. The result of this will be large holes in IADS coverage, or to use the colourful late Cold War description, the gaps between fence pickets become very wide. 


Engagement radars employed for Surface-Air Missile defences, such as the Patriot MPQ-53/65 and Aegis SPG-62, and most fighter multimode radars operate in the C/X-band, and some in the Ku-band. Semiactive and TVM missile seekers mostly operate in the native C/X-band of the fire control system, while active radar seekers mostly operate in the Ku-band or above. The effectiveness of all of these systems will be severely impaired when confronting a mature variant of the J-XX [J-20]. Intercepting the Chengdu fighter is apt to present the very same challenges confronted in intercepts flown against the F-22A Raptor, both in terms of acquisition by radar, guidance of missiles and kinematic intercept by aircraft or missile. 

In the Western world, most intellectual and development effort in air defence radar and missiles since 1991 has been concentrated into two discrete areas, specifically to provide TMD (Theatre Ballistic Missile Defence) capabilities at the upper end, and C-RAM (Counter Rocket Artillery Mortar) capabilities at the lower end. Capabilities to intercept and destroy high performance low observable aircraft and guided munitions have received little if any attention. 

Conversely, Russia has since 1991 invested most of its intellectual and material effort in air defence radar and missile development into two very different areas. At the upper tier, counter-stealth radars exploiting VHF-band technology have been developed and some exported, while at the lower end, the focus has been firmly on providing C-PGM (Counter-PGM) capabilities to defeat Western smart munitions. China has followed the Russian lead in IADS capability development, with indigenous and imported Russian technologyx. 

In strategic terms, at the most basic level, a mature production J-XX [J-20] effectively obsoletes nearly all of the IADS infrastructure and systems, air defence fighter fleets and weapons inventories deployed and operated by the United States and its Pacific Rim allies, in a fashion no different to the immediate obsolescence inflicted by the F-117A / B-2A / F-22A upon globally deployed Soviet era IADS, fighters and systems. 

In any conflict involving China, a well sized fleet of mature production J-XX [J-20] would have significant freedom of action to attack and destroy aerial and surface targets throughout the geography of the Second Island Chain. Pre-emptive strikes such as those flown in previous conflicts by US Air Force B-2A and F-117A stealth aircraft, intended to cripple and thus paralyse IADS and C3I systems, would present a genuine and very serious risk in any standoff or escalated contingency. 

Moreover, with a robust payload of satellite/inertial guided bombs, a multirole or strike derivative production J-XX [J-20] would have significant capability to shut down United States and allied airfields across the Second Island Chain, in a manner no different to that envisaged by the US Air Force as a prime role for the GBU-39/53 Small Diameter Bomb armed F-22A Raptor  and proposed FB-22. No differently, US Navy CVBGs are at significant risk, adding to the risks posed by the DF-21D ASBMxi. 

Unlike ballistic missile terminal stages which present terminal guidance challenges in accuracy, and warhead mass limitations, guided bombs delivered by aircraft can be extremely precise and have large warheads, with significant capability to penetrate reinforced concrete, or warship hulls, and high explosive filler payloads of up to many hundreds of kilogramsxii. 

As the PLA-AF and PLA-N have access to over 200 airfields, most semi-hardened, some well hardened, and a few super-hardened and deep underground, dispersal and continuous relocation of a J-XX [J-20] fleet is a feasible deployment strategy, and one which presents genuine difficulties in countering with pre-emptive air or cruise missile strikesxiii. 

The supersonic cruise capability and large fuel capacity of the J-XX [J-20] would permit it to be based deeper inside China's territory, compared to older types, further complicating efforts to close down or destroy airfields from which the J-XX [J-20] may be operating, as significant penetration into China's increasingly dense and sophisticated IADS would be required to hit such sites. As the J-XX [J-20] will have close to twice the productivity, in sortie rates achievable compared to conventional non-supercruise types, basing the aircraft deeper inside the IADS would not impair productivity in the manner it would for subsonic cruising types. 

In terms of China's ability to manufacture and deploy significant numbers of the J-XX [J-20] it is worth observing that in terms of raw bang for buck China's defence industry is outperforming the United States' industry by a robust margin. The oft quoted comparisons between the United States and PRC defence budgets produce a misleading picture of the relative scale of investments, especially in terms of equipment recapitalisation. Chinese aggregate defence budgets as cited reflect primarily capital equipment acquisition and support costs, while many infrastructure and personnel costs are born by regional governments. United States budgets tend to carry a significant fraction of operational costs which have been unusually high over the last decade due to the ongoing global conflict with Islamo-fascist insurgent movements. 

The woeful inefficiency of many portions of the United States defence industry, and procurement bureaucracy, is best exemplified by the fact that the underperforming single engine F-35 is now more expensive than the larger and much better twin engine F-22 Raptor, in terms of Unit Procurement Costs. Many other United States programs display similar symptoms, with overpriced and frequently underperforming products. China has a much healthier manufacturing industry than the United States, and a larger pool of highly skilled personnel, in a job market where personnel costs are tightly controlled. China's ability to rapidly develop both the sophisticated J-XX [J-20] and complex KJ-2000 AWACS over the last decade, with little prior depth in the basic technologies involved, shows an efficient and effective R&D environment, and supporting manufacturing base. 

The Chengdu J-XX [J-20] thus represents a techno-strategic coup by China, and if deployed in large numbers in a mature configuration, a genuine strategic coup against the United States and its Pacific Rim allies. The development of the Chengdu J-XX [J-20] represents an excellent case study of a well thought out symmetrical techno-strategic response to the United States' deployment of stealthy combat aircraft, which no differently to the United States' play in the late Cold War and post Cold War period, elicits a disproportionate response in materiel investment to effectively counter. 

The only US design with the kinematic performance, stealth performance and sensor capability to be able to confront the J-20 [J-XX] with viable combat lethality and survivability is the F-22A Raptor, or rather, evolved and enhanced variants of the existing configuration of this aircraft. 

The US Navy F/A-18E/F Super Hornet is outclassed in every respect, and would be as ineffective against a mature J-XX [J-20] as it is against the F-22A Raptor. 

All variants of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter would be equally so outclassed, assuming this failed project even progresses to any kind of actual production. 

All US Air Force, US Navy and allied legacy fighters are outclassed in much the same manner, and are ineffective kinematically and in sensor capability against this class of threat system. 

The extant IADS technology base of the US Army and Navy and their sister services in Pacific Rim allied nations will be largely ineffective, requiring the replacement of most if not all acquisition radars with VHF-band AESA technology replacements designed to defeat S/X/Ku-band stealth capabilities. 

From the perspectives of both technological strategy and military grand strategy, the J-XX [J-20] is the final nail in the coffin of the utterly failed Gates recapitalisation plan for United States and allied tactical fighter fleets. Apologists for the Gates fighter recapitalisation plan will no doubt concoct a plethora of reasons as to why the J-XX [J-20] should be ignored, as they did exactly one year ago when the Russians unveiled the T-50 PAK-FA stealth fighter. 

The material reality is simple. If the United States does not reverse course in its tactical air fleet and air defence recapitalisation planning, the United States will lose the Pacific Rim to China, with all of the practical and grand strategic consequences which follow from that.


_*More Pics and References are available at the link of the article(below).*_
Fighter

The Strategic Impact of China's J-XX [J-20] Stealth Fighter


----------



## SEAL

---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Guest

gambit said:


> Finally...We come to the pure fly-by-wire FLCS. There are no mechanical flight controls laws in the system, as in there are no push-pull rods or pulleys. There are the flight controls laws inside the pilot's head and there are the flight controls laws inside the FLCS computer. If battle damage render the FLCS computer inoperable, the pilot have to leave the aircraft. He has no way to use his own flight controls laws.



why I just qoute the last part? bcz i not interested in how the mechanical-hydraulics FLCS works, and i don't know why you post it (to show off you wiki searching skills?)

now, come to the qouted section. well, it seems i overestimated your ability to read and understand. When i said "laws", i assume that you will understand what i was talking is "laws" indide a FBW system, not the pilots' skills.

But obviously, you still don't know how this outputs (or "laws" according to you) was established,analysized and optimized inside X-36's FLCS, doesn't you? this is why you name them "LAWS", just like those in a mechanical-hydraulics FLCS, if the pilot push xxx, then yyy must do zzz.




gambit said:


> China does not know the codes for American 'stealth' fighter's FLCS so there is no way for you to assert that China is superior to US in this respect. But it is reasonable to assume who is probably the superior based upon experience. So who has the more experience in fly-by-wire technology? You think it is impossible for China to write faulty codes? What a child-like faith. You believe in Santa Claus as well? The world's most experienced fly-by-wire technologists, the US and Europe, made mistakes but never will China.


this is the most interesting part. let's go throught it sentence by sentence.

"China does not know *ALL* the codes for American 'stealth' fighter's FLCS " i will certaily accept this. but without the key word "ALL", how can you be so sure about that. 

"there is no way for you to assert that China is superior to US in this respect." 
did i ever said that? all i said was: we applied some advanced development and testing tools which were *not existed in the 1990s*. understood now! 

"You think it is impossible for China to write faulty codes? What a child-like faith. You believe in Santa Claus as well? The world's most experienced fly-by-wire technologists, the US and Europe, made mistakes but never will China."

of course, Chinese engineers have written and will continue to write defected codes(happy?) but thanks to the *rules and tools*, much of them will be found and corrected before migrating into the plane. and the rest of them? they will be fixed when they shown up. just like maintaining the hardwares (which you are familiar with), with better procedures and equipment, they are more likely to remain in good condiction, but they still failed from time to time, at a much lower frequency.


----------



## gambit

topjumper said:


> Yes, having symmetrical rudder displacement during flight makes sense because it increases the downward moment through air flow at the rear of the jet, so it helps the jet to raise its head for climbs or up turns etc.
> 
> But it also makes sense to have asymmetrical rudder displacement to on the ground to aid speedy/tight horizontal turns, think of it like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suppose the jet is trying to perform a tight left turn on the ground, it uses its engine to produce a forward thrust, if we pin our cartesian coordinates on the its airframe, the effects of the forward thrust is the same as having air flow relatively backwards on its frame, if we deflect the left rudder to a near perpendicular position to the incoming airflow while having the right rudder fixed tangential to the streamline, the it would generate a positive (counter-clockwise) moment on the aircraft frame, this essentially enhances the aircraft's ability to perform tight horizontal turns on a given level surface, at least it makes sense to me and I still do not think it is an un-intentional software glitch


I used to race SCCA for fun and it is known among racers and car designers that aerodynamic forces are not worthwhile until the vehicle is around 50 mph. For what you said, on the ground, friction with the tires are more efficient retardant than aerodynamics, which often require the aircraft to be already in motion. You would achieve the same effect but more efficient with asymmetrical braking and in a tighter turn radius. For a light fighter like the F-16, nose wheel steering is selectable at around 70-80 knots or about 80 mph or about 110 km/h. Selectable mean the pilot can disengage to use rudder steering at higher ground speed or engage NWS at below that speed.


----------



## gambit

Guest said:


> why I just qoute the last part? bcz i not interested in how the mechanical-hydraulics FLCS works, and i don't know why you post it (to show off you wiki searching skills?)


This is a typical attitude of someone who does not care that he is out of his area of knowledge and still thinks he knows it all.



Guest said:


> now, come to the qouted section. well, it seems i overestimated your ability to read and understand. When i said "laws", i assume that you will understand what i was talking is "laws" indide a FBW system, not the pilots' skills.


I understand these principles quite well. It is clear that you do not comprehend the context of the word 'law' here.



Guest said:


> But obviously, you still don't know how this outputs (or "laws" according to you) was established,analysized and optimized inside X-36's FLCS, doesn't you? this is why you name them "LAWS", just like those in a mechanical-hydraulics FLCS, if the pilot push xxx, then yyy must do zzz.


I do not need to know the details of the X-36's fly-by-wire FLCS. I only need to know and understand that everything is based upon laws and aviation is no different. Let me guess, Chinese aviation operates on different laws of physics......If you cannot understand the context of 'law' here, there is no hope for you. In a perverse way, I hope there are others like you working on the J-20.



Guest said:


> this is the most interesting part. let's go throught it sentence by sentence.


Yes...Let us go there...



Guest said:


> "China does not know *ALL* the codes for American 'stealth' fighter's FLCS " i will certaily accept this. but without the key word "ALL", how can you be so sure about that.


Because these laws must be custom coded for the hardware. But if you are so certain that China does have the F-22's FLCS codes, show everyone your evidence.



Guest said:


> "there is no way for you to assert that China is superior to US in this respect."
> did i ever said that? all i said was: we applied some advanced development and testing tools which were *not existed in the 1990s*. understood now!


You do not have to use the word 'superior' but you said pretty much the same thing...



Guest said:


> We used exactly the same testing tools that is being used by NASA and Lockheed Martin. In this regard, we have a much better kick off compare to that of the F-22s' in the 1990s.


Quibble all you want. I do not care.



Guest said:


> "You think it is impossible for China to write faulty codes? What a child-like faith. You believe in Santa Claus as well? The world's most experienced fly-by-wire technologists, the US and Europe, made mistakes but never will China."
> 
> of course, Chinese engineers have written and will continue to write defected codes(happy?) but thanks to the *rules and tools*, much of them will be found and corrected before migrating into the plane. and the rest of them? they will be fixed when they shown up. just like maintaining the hardwares (which you are familiar with), with better procedures and equipment, they are more likely to remain in good condiction, but they still failed from time to time, at a much lower frequency.


Hmmm...Is this speaking from personal experience? Or more likely faith?


----------



## qwerrty

fox said:


>




the canopy window looks tinted.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## conworldus

qwerrty said:


> the canopy window looks tinted.



It probably works just like your Rayban 

Seriously, it is important I think to protect the pilots and cockpit controls from ultraviolet rays when they are flying 30,000 meters up all exposed.


----------



## topjumper

gambit said:


> I used to race SCCA for fun and it is known among racers and car designers that aerodynamic forces are not worthwhile until the vehicle is around 50 mph. For what you said, on the ground, friction with the tires are more efficient retardant than aerodynamics, which often require the aircraft to be already in motion. You would achieve the same effect but more efficient with asymmetrical braking and in a tighter turn radius. For a light fighter like the F-16, nose wheel steering is selectable at around 70-80 knots or about 80 mph or about 110 km/h. Selectable mean the pilot can disengage to use rudder steering at higher ground speed or engage NWS at below that speed.



Agreed that the higher the flow speed the more obvious of the effects from the asymmetrical rudder displacement. Just a speculation here, maybe the designer re-used the same (modularized) logic to control the rudder movement for doing turns on the ground or in the air (with additional code controls the wheels while it is in taxiing mode of course). So on the ground during low motion taxiing when the wind effects are negligible the asymmetrical rudder movements wouldn't add much effect, but when it's in high taxiing speed regime it can still perform tight (or "tighter") turns if necessary, once this thing gets enough air circulation on its wings to lift off the ground, the benefits of having these asymmetrical rudder movements would be more obvious.


----------



## ArjunaTheWarrior

all i can say about this plane is ... 

it can hit hard on far away strategic force multipliers ... 

whether they are naval ships or AWACS ...

i dont agree with experts who say canards wont b good for a stealth fighter ... 

at low subsonic speed whr canards will give it much needed balance it will be almost equal LO in frontal aspect than F-22 flying in supercruise at a higher altitude ... so impossible for detect if it approaches an Indian air defense site or an american CBG flying subsonic at lower altitude ... 

a sure shot killer (Amogh Astra in indian words) ...

Indians should be alarmed and whoever who sees a future conflict with china ...

i was never impressed with ballistic missile killing a AC .. but this sure can do that 

congrats to all Chinese ppl ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Donatello

China has an awesome leverage now against Taiwan and any one trying to meddle in the affairs east of China.

What a feat i must say!


----------



## hulian12

i think so


----------



## Guest

gambit said:


> This is a typical attitude of someone who does not care that he is out of his area of knowledge and still thinks he knows it all.



this is indeed out of my domain. Howerer, who exactly pretented to be an expert in mechanical-hydraulics FLCS here and posted lots of ralated articles here? certainly it is not me, maybe it is you.



gambit said:


> I understand these principles quite well. It is clear that you do not comprehend the context of the word 'law' here.



don't go too far away, this is what we should be focus.



gambit said:


> So are there such things as flight controls laws? Yes, this is real physics. A 'law' is a directive that has adverse consequences if that directive is not obeyed.



can you give me an example of "flight controls laws"?



gambit said:


> I do not need to know the details of the X-36's fly-by-wire FLCS. I only need to know and understand that everything is based upon laws and aviation is no different. Let me guess, Chinese aviation operates on different laws of physics......If you cannot understand the context of 'law' here, there is no hope for you. In a perverse way, I hope there are others like you working on the J-20.



chinese aviation operates on the same laws of physics, but not on the "flight controls laws" you mentioned. and the most interesting part is to use law A to overcome law B's drawback, so as to make law B irrelevant (making it like the law of yesterday).




gambit said:


> cause these laws must be custom coded for the hardware. But if you are so certain that China does have the F-22's FLCS codes, show everyone your evidence.



I also looking forward to see your evidences of: China does not have "a single section" of the F-22's FLCS codes.
BTW, why F-22's FLCS codes is relevant here?



gambit said:


> You do not have to use the word 'superior' but you said pretty much the same thing...
> 
> Quibble all you want. I do not care.


is this how you read and interprete books or anything else.


> We used exactly the same testing tools that is being used by NASA and Lockheed Martin. In this regard, we have a much better kick off compare to that of the F-22s' in the 1990s.



OK, if you are not capable of understanding it, i will rephrase it for you.
In 1990s when F-22 is being developed, there is not such testing tools that the chinese using today, so they have a upper hand to make less defected system. got it?



gambit said:


> Hmmm...Is this speaking from personal experience? Or more likely faith?


personal experience or faith? neither, I would like to name it statistic.

we were given the precise figure of "hidden bugs" (bugs that found by the testing software) and "founded bugs" (bugs that founded by other means) founded in F-35's and many other systems (including ours).


----------



## Pakchina

India the world's No 1 weapons importer, a country which is buying everything it finds in the world in terms of weaponry and all weapons it could find from the US, EU, Israel and Russia should also consider procuring the J 20 at least to examine it. 
PS: See my post regarding India's Balkanization:


----------



## ArjunaTheWarrior

Pakchina said:


> India the world's No 1 weapons importer, a country which is buying everything it finds in the world in terms of weaponry and all weapons it could find from the US, EU, Israel and Russia should also consider procuring the J 20 at least to examine it.
> PS: See my post regarding India's Balkanization:


 ... well it wont mature before 2020+ ... and chinese will fill its ranks first so wont be available for Pakistan before 2023+ ... and that moment FGFA the twin seater T-50 will be in service plus... after getting alarmed coz of chinese stealth plane...
AMCA development will pick pace and india will be flying a prototype by 2018-2020 although not in the league of PAK FA, J-20 but still a good plateform ...


----------



## mjnaushad

ArjunaTheWarrior said:


> ...





> well it wont mature before 2020+



How do you know that?? 




> ... and chinese will fill its ranks first so wont be available for Pakistan before 2023+ ... and that moment FGFA the twin seater T-50 will be in service plus...



Both planes Date of Birth is almost same....Then why FGFA will be in service before T50....



> after getting alarmed coz of chinese stealth plane...
> AMCA development will pick pace and india will be flying a prototype by 2018-2020



And do you think the t50 pace wont effect J20's pace...




> although not in the league of PAK FA, J-20 but still a good plateform ...



Yeah we know your Mig21 Bison can shoot down J20.....


----------



## ArjunaTheWarrior

mjnaushad said:


> How do you know that??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both planes Date of Birth is almost same....Then why FGFA will be in service before T50....
> 
> 
> 
> And do you think the t50 pace wont effect J20's pace...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah we know your Mig21 Bison can shoot down J20.....


before going into International market ... 

the plane should get all the goodies ... totally integrated and preferably in service 
with home country ... 
in J-20's case ... the technologies ...will keep on integrating till 2020 ... or so ..
this plane will be in service with PLAAF or PLANAF ... in 2016 or so with IOC and by 2020 chinese can make it a real player in the game ... so by 2020 .. it can be fielded in Inter Market.. n after 2-3 years plane can be exported ... after chinese get this in numebers ... by tech integration I mean ... a final version of engine, radar, ew suite, weapon plateform, avionics ... that take time to mature ...


the last line you have quoted ... you have taken its meaning wrongly ,, 

i said... India;s own stealth fighter wont be in the same category as T-50 or J-20 ,.. simply coz its in medium category ... indians are way behind in AESA tech ... and engine tech ... i dont expect india to catch up china or russia in ten years whn all the countries are putting all they can in his weapon plateform ..


----------



## Rafi

Well done to our Chinese brethren a belated congratulations.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## eagle20054

YouTube - Chengdu J-20 the Chinese stealth fighter maiden flight


----------



## Donatello

ArjunaTheWarrior said:


> before going into International market ...
> 
> the plane should get all the goodies ... totally integrated and preferably in service
> with home country ...
> in J-20's case ... the technologies ...will keep on integrating till 2020 ... or so ..
> this plane will be in service with PLAAF or PLANAF ... in 2016 or so with IOC and by 2020 chinese can make it a real player in the game ... so by 2020 .. it can be fielded in Inter Market.. n after 2-3 years plane can be exported ... after chinese get this in numebers ... by tech integration I mean ... a final version of engine, radar, ew suite, weapon plateform, avionics ... that take time to mature ...
> 
> 
> the last line you have quoted ... you have taken its meaning wrongly ,,
> 
> i said... India;s own stealth fighter wont be in the same category as T-50 or J-20 ,.. simply coz its in medium category ... indians are way behind in AESA tech ... and engine tech ... i dont expect india to catch up china or russia in ten years whn all the countries are putting all they can in his weapon plateform ..





I think you are mistaken, by a large amount.

Don't think that just because F-22 Raptor took 20 years to materialize and get IOC, it will be the same with J-20.

America is just starting to build high-speed rails, while China is already ahead with 5000 miles of track already laid....

China build's its projects in months what takes years in American or any other country.

People in America were saying that China will not have a stealth plane flying before 2018, i guess they would be pissing in their pants now. If you see the flight pics, you can clearly see the HUD of the cockpit.

The plane is ready, maybe they are deciding on the weapons integration etc.

They will have it in service by 2013 at most.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ArjunaTheWarrior

penumbra said:


> I think you are mistaken, by a large amount.
> 
> Don't think that just because F-22 Raptor took 20 years to materialize and get IOC, it will be the same with J-20.
> 
> America is just starting to build high-speed rails, while China is already ahead with 5000 miles of track already laid....
> 
> China build's its projects in months what takes years in American or any other country.
> 
> People in America were saying that China will not have a stealth plane flying before 2018, i guess they would be pissing in their pants now. If you see the flight pics, you can clearly see the HUD of the cockpit.
> 
> The plane is ready, maybe they are deciding on the weapons integration etc.
> 
> They will have it in service by 2013 at most.


yaa even PLAAF official is wrong saying that the plane will be in service by 2017-2019 in 2009 ... 

americans are quite right about the plane that it will be in service by 2018 ... 

... 

i am a test engineer also ... i have worked on numerous real time platforms that too in private sector... i pretty well know how many cycles and integrations it takes to make the product worthy to built a production line for it ...i expect 2016 for Induction .....in first few years the production line will b limited to limited no of planes/year and 2020 the planes/year will increase rapidly when it will be fully integrated even at chinese pace .. ...


----------



## rockstarIN

penumbra said:


> I think you are mistaken, by a large amount.
> 
> Don't think that just because F-22 Raptor took 20 years to materialize and get IOC, it will be the same with J-20.
> 
> America is just starting to build high-speed rails, while China is already ahead with 5000 miles of track already laid....
> 
> China build's its projects in months what takes years in American or any other country.
> 
> People in America were saying that China will not have a stealth plane flying before 2018, i guess they would be pissing in their pants now. If you see the flight pics, you can clearly see the HUD of the cockpit.
> 
> The plane is ready, maybe they are deciding on the weapons integration etc.
> 
> They will have it in service by 2013 at most.



2013 is very highly optimistic given the complexity of 5th gen technology. There is a high chance that the current jet is a technology demo one and the next one will see considerable changes even in air frame. I'm just waiting to see the PAK-FA 2nd prototype which suppose to fly this month


----------



## ArjunaTheWarrior

rockstar said:


> 2013 is very highly optimistic given the complexity of 5th gen technology. There is a high chance that the current jet is a technology demo one and the next one will see considerable changes even in air frame. I'm just waiting to see the PAK-FA 2nd prototype which suppose to fly this month


according to russian forums thr is no great chnage in air frame in the 2nd prototype ... may be some internal suites are in test phase now...


----------



## gpit

Guys still engaged in meaningless rudder/wheel debate, just watch the youtube *at 1:13* (1 minute, 13 seconds), the left rudder positions just as it is displayed on the other bigger, front-facing picture.

No need to argue this anymore. After all, for sane people, *as long as it works, who cares about the ideology.* 




eagle20054 said:


> YouTube - Chengdu J-20 the Chinese stealth fighter maiden flight

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## topjumper

gpit said:


> Guys still engaged in meaningless rudder/wheel debate, just watch the youtube *at 1:13* (1 minute, 13 seconds), the left rudder positions just as it is displayed on the other bigger, front-facing picture.
> 
> No need to argue this anymore. After all, for sane people, *as long as it works, who cares about the ideology.*



Yep, and I don't think it just works, I think it works beautifully  from that video at 1:10 you can tell when the pilot was trying to steer the aircraft multiple times to his left.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

topjumper said:


> Agreed that the higher the flow speed the more obvious of the effects from the asymmetrical rudder displacement.


Aerodynamic rates of speed is the phrasing. At take-off and landing speeds where aerodynamic rates of speed are in play, any asymmetric deflections by any paired flight controls elements are highly dangerous.



topjumper said:


> Just a speculation here, maybe the designer re-used the same (modularized) logic to control the rudder movement for doing turns on the ground or in the air (with additional code controls the wheels while it is in taxiing mode of course). So on the ground during low motion taxiing when the *wind effects* are negligible the asymmetrical rudder movements wouldn't add much effect,...


Make that aerodynamic forces.



topjumper said:


> ...but when it's in high taxiing speed regime it can still perform tight (or "tighter") turns if necessary, once this thing gets enough air circulation on its wings to lift off the ground, the benefits of having these asymmetrical rudder movements would be more obvious.


Benefit? Even an automobile driver knows it is dangerous to make sharp steering movements at 70 km/h. It is called a 'car crash'. Ever seen or even heard of it?







Take a look at the above situation.

In every take-off and landing, there exist a period of time and length of runway where we have nose gear weight-*OFF*-wheels and main gear weight-*ON*-wheels. In this period of time and length of runway, the pilot can do one or combination of:

- Rudder steering
- Asymmetric braking
- Asymmetric drag (wing spoilers)
- Asymmetric engine thrust

If he chose only rudder steering, for an aircraft equipped with twin vertical stabs, both surfaces must deflect to the same degree. This is not an unknown experience as we have airliners in the past that has more than one vertical stabs. Steering by any method at this point is dangerous already, let alone combinations of them. The time that any aircraft will spend in this situation will be brief. So what advantages are there to create a potential adverse yaw situation via rudder steering? The question is applicable to the smaller and lighter J-20 with its widely spaced twin vertical stabs.

I watched the runway taxi video several times and I noticed the only time there is this gross disproportionate deflection is when the pilot has to make a sharp turn at very low speed. Pretty much walking speed. When the J-20 made a sharp right/left turn, I saw either the right or left v-stab flailing by itself while its companion remain steady. It is normal practice to exercise as fully as possible all fight control travels before take-off but this is usually done while in chocks under the watchful eyes of the crew chief and his assistant. They will alert the pilot of any unequal or erratic behaviors by the surfaces. But that flailing movement by a single vertical stab is funky to me for a ground operation where there are complete weight-on-wheels, no worthwhile air data, gyroscopes, and accelerometers inputs.


----------



## gambit

penumbra said:


> I think you are mistaken, by a large amount.
> 
> Don't think that just because F-22 Raptor took 20 years to materialize and get IOC, it will be the same with J-20.


But if the J-20 is not in the same class as the F-22, may be China should invest that 20 yrs?



penumbra said:


> America is just starting to build high-speed rails, while China is already ahead with 5000 miles of track already laid....


How does this translate to inability to build such projects? It does not. It simply mean Americans like our cars more than traveling in trains. A train will certainly take me from point A to point B faster than my bike can, but certainly will not be as fun and the experience not as elemental as on a motorcycle.



penumbra said:


> China build's its projects in months what takes years in American or any other country.


Safety standards has no play in this?



penumbra said:


> People in America were saying that China will not have a stealth plane flying before 2018, i guess they would be pissing in their pants now. If you see the flight pics, you can clearly see the HUD of the cockpit.
> 
> The plane is ready, maybe they are deciding on the weapons integration etc.
> 
> They will have it in service by 2013 at most.


We can say that the F-117 got the Chinese pissing in their pants since it got past Soviet/Chinese air defense radars. The J-20 is not yet a 'stealth' fighter compared to the F-22 where its low radar observability is already established by independent parties.


----------



## topjumper

gambit said:


> Aerodynamic rates of speed is the phrasing. At take-off and landing speeds where aerodynamic rates of speed are in play, any asymmetric deflections by any paired flight controls elements are highly dangerous.
> 
> 
> Make that aerodynamic forces.
> 
> 
> Benefit? Even an automobile driver knows it is dangerous to make sharp steering movements at 70 km/h. It is called a 'car crash'. Ever seen or even heard of it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take a look at the above situation.
> 
> In every take-off and landing, there exist a period of time and length of runway where we have nose gear weight-*OFF*-wheels and main gear weight-*ON*-wheels. In this period of time and length of runway, the pilot can do one or combination of:
> 
> - Rudder steering
> - Asymmetric braking
> - Asymmetric drag (wing spoilers)
> - Asymmetric engine thrust
> 
> If he chose only rudder steering, for an aircraft equipped with twin vertical stabs, both surfaces must deflect to the same degree. This is not an unknown experience as we have airliners in the past that has more than one vertical stabs. Steering by any method at this point is dangerous already, let alone combinations of them. The time that any aircraft will spend in this situation will be brief. So what advantages are there to create a potential adverse yaw situation via rudder steering? The question is applicable to the smaller and lighter J-20 with its widely spaced twin vertical stabs.
> 
> I watched the runway taxi video several times and I noticed the only time there is this gross disproportionate deflection is when the pilot has to make a sharp turn at very low speed. Pretty much walking speed. When the J-20 made a sharp right/left turn, I saw either the right or left v-stab flailing by itself while its companion remain steady. It is normal practice to exercise as fully as possible all fight control travels before take-off but this is usually done while in chocks under the watchful eyes of the crew chief and his assistant. They will alert the pilot of any unequal or erratic behaviors by the surfaces. But that flailing movement by a single vertical stab is funky to me for a ground operation where there are complete weight-on-wheels, no worthwhile air data, gyroscopes, and accelerometers inputs.



Alright this will be my last reply on this topic as it is getting evidently pointless. 

First of all as it has been mentioned before, this rudder movement could be part of the brake control, without knowing exactly what the pilot was trying to do we are all speculating here -- he could simply be putting the left brake on when turning left and as a result of that the left rudder moves in, I wouldn't be surprised when he puts both brakes on then both rudders would move inwards.

Secondly, this thing has been out there taxiing for days and all kinds of performance data were collected, in addition there were plenty of ground crews observing the aircraft as we can see from the photos and videos, they surely would have seen this rudder movement and it didn't really seem to bother them, do you really think if they shared your view and thought there are irrational (or "funky" as you put it) movements of the rudders they would have let this thing go ahead fly? We don't want to over-estimate the capabilities of J-20 and its engineers but I don't think you should under-estimate (to the point of almost belittling) them either, especially when you have just watched a photo for a while and have never built an aircraft before to proclaim there's some software problems with their flight controls.


----------



## gambit

topjumper said:


> Alright this will be my last reply on this topic as it is getting evidently pointless.


Sorry you feel that way.



topjumper said:


> First of all as it has been mentioned before, this rudder movement could be part of the brake control, without knowing exactly what the pilot was trying to do we are all speculating here -- he could simply be putting the left brake on when turning left and as a result of that the left rudder moves in,...


To my knowledge, rudder controls has never been a part of the brake system. There are two parts to a rudder pedal, the 'lower' part is for rudder and/or nose wheel steering, the 'upper' part where the toe area rest upon is for braking. The pilot can press this area without moving the pedal.



topjumper said:


> ...I wouldn't be surprised when he puts both brakes on then both rudders would move inwards.


You may not, but I and the entire aviation world would have a collective gasp.



topjumper said:


> Secondly, this thing has been out there taxiing for days and all kinds of performance data were collected, in addition there were plenty of ground crews observing the aircraft as we can see from the photos and videos, they surely would have seen this rudder movement and it didn't really seem to bother them, do you really think if they shared your view and thought there are irrational (or "funky" as you put it) movements of the rudders they would have let this thing go ahead fly?


The ground crews would contain engineers at this point. Perhaps they have noticed and decided that as long as the weight-off-wheels logic will engage certain laws, the test flight will proceed as scheduled. The danger here is that if, and am willing to grant a big if, there is a software based fault somewhere, it may not require weight-on-wheels logic to manifest itself.



topjumper said:


> We don't want to over-estimate the capabilities of J-20 and its engineers...


Judging from the comments so far, that overestimation already happened.



topjumper said:


> ...but I don't think you should under-estimate (to the point of almost belittling) them either, especially when you have just watched a photo for a while and have never built an aircraft before to proclaim there's some software problems with their flight controls.


Belittling? Give me a break......Nowhere have I said there *IS* a fault. I said I suspected and so far I have more than amply support my argument. If I have no direct experience in this issue, I would not know how to search publicly available information to support my questions.


----------



## Martian2

topjumper said:


> Alright this will be my last reply on this topic as it is getting evidently pointless.



Thank you. Do not feed the anti-Chinese you-know-who. His opinions are worthwhile only on non-Chinese matters. When it comes to China, his inner-biased demon comes out.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tkunk8

Up for success! tell me how upload pictures


----------



## ao333

tkunk8 said:


> Up for success! tell me how upload pictures



You don't... Tinypic is your site of choice...


----------



## alam.saquiba

> I think you are mistaken, by a large amount.
> 
> Don't think that just because F-22 Raptor took 20 years to materialize and get IOC, it will be the same with J-20.
> 
> America is just starting to build high-speed rails, while China is already ahead with 5000 miles of track already laid....
> 
> China build's its projects in months what takes years in American or any other country.
> 
> People in America were saying that China will not have a stealth plane flying before 2018, i guess they would be pissing in their pants now. If you see the flight pics, you can clearly see the HUD of the cockpit.
> 
> The plane is ready, maybe they are deciding on the weapons integration etc.
> 
> They will have it in service by 2013 at mos



I disagree, The chinies philosophy is , Include the weapon first then later test/upgrade it...

I bet the J20 Aka super Lavi will be included in PLAF much much before FGFA or PAK-Fa...

I have worked for Chinese company, their product is tested at client site.. Americans and European spent >=60% resources on testing. While Chinese companies spent minimal amount on testing... (This is my personal experience...)

But 2013 is very aggressive date..


----------



## below_freezing

alam.saquiba said:


> I disagree, The chinies philosophy is , Include the weapon first then later test/upgrade it...
> 
> I bet the J20 Aka super Lavi will be included in PLAF much much before FGFA or PAK-Fa...
> 
> I have worked for Chinese company, their product is tested at client site.. Americans and European spent >=60% resources on testing. While Chinese companies spent minimal amount on testing... (This is my personal experience...)
> 
> But 2013 is very aggressive date..



Yes, J-20 is a super Lavi, and has much to do with Israel, and there is a great deal of evidence that shows this. On the other hand, the indian LCA is 100% indigenous, and no foreign sources have ever confirmed their participation in the LCA project as suppliers.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

This is the biggest joke i've ever heard.

Compared a scrapped 2++ gen fighter to a 4 gen stealth fighter?


----------



## S10

alam.saquiba said:


> I disagree, The chinies philosophy is , Include the weapon first then later test/upgrade it...
> 
> I bet the *J20 Aka super Lavi *will be included in PLAF much much before FGFA or PAK-Fa...
> 
> I have worked for Chinese company, their product is tested at client site.. Americans and European spent >=60&#37; resources on testing. While Chinese companies spent minimal amount on testing... (This is my personal experience...)
> 
> But 2013 is very aggressive date..


Considering the flight control system of J-10 and Lavi are completely different, a bold statement.

More sour grapes from Indians? How's super Mig-21 LCA doing?


----------



## fatman17

ASIA PACIFIC 
Date Posted: 11-Jan-2011 


Jane's Defence Weekly 

*China's J-20 makes maiden flight*

Reuben F Johnson JDW Correspondent - Kiev

Key Points
China's fifth-generation stealth fighter prototype made its maiden test-flight in 11 January, state media reported

The timing of the flight may be influenced by a US decision to allow upgrades to Taiwan's F-16 fighter fleet 

China's Jian-20 (J-20) 'Black Silk/Black Eagle' prototype fifth-generation combat aircraft made its maiden flight from the Chengdu Aircraft Design and Research Institute (CADI) and Aircraft Plant No 132 aerodrome on 11 January, according to the state-run Xinhua news agency. 

The prototype took off for its 18-minute first flight at 1250 h local time, according to the report. During the flight the aircraft made several wheels-down passes over the aerodrome, during which it was followed by two-seat J-10S chase planes. 

The J-20 flight was reported to have been originally scheduled for later this week. However, Chinese news sources have speculated that it was moved up in order to take place while US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates was still in Beijing on a four-day official visit. 

President Hu Jintao confirmed to Gates that the test flight had taken place, but assured him that the timing was coincidental. "I asked President Hu about it directly, and he said that the test had absolutely nothing to do with my visit and had been a pre-planned test," Gates told reporters in Beijing. 

Chinese sources who spoke to Jane's suggested that China may have accelerated the schedule for the J-20's maiden flight after the US Department of Defense (DoD) finally agreed to modernise Taiwan's fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16A/B fighter aircraft. 

In deference to Chinese objections, Washington had rebuffed requests by Taiwan to upgrade its existing fleet of F-16A/B fighters and to sell it new F-16C/D aircraft. However, the DoD announced last week that it would release to Taiwan a request for price and availability information on upgrading the F-16A/Bs. The upgrade configuration is reported to include new avionics, an engine upgrade and possibly a new radar set. 

The reported first flight of the Chinese J-20 fifth-generation prototype combat aircraft saw it depart the Chengdu Aircraft Design and Research Institute facility for an 18-minute sortie.


----------



## alam.saquiba

> Considering the flight control system of J-10 and Lavi are completely different, a bold statement.
> 
> More sour grapes from Indians? How's super Mig-21 LCA doing?



Russia is developing Pak-FA based on Flankers and Berkut, I think no one feel bad if its termed as stealth flanker... (Though this is a new plane under the skin).. same goes for J20, Its design is totally based on LAVI (which Saint Amerika provided china to counter Devil Russia)...

J20 is in many way different than LAVI but based on it... *I am no where saying that its not chinies product..* Its very much chinies baby, so don feel bad...

LCA is not based on MiG21, coz both are entirely different design, even Its design match with Mirage and saab viggen, but its no where related to those (may be India have stolen some blue print from these countries  ) But uncle sam never gave/approve us LAVI/F20/MiG33..


So whatever it is, Its our design... 

Soon we will come with AMCA...


----------



## alam.saquiba

By the way, My cordial and heartily congratulation to Chinese brothers... This machine look awesome... I love cancard... The first I saw russian bomber with cancard and I fell in love with this design...

I wish LCA could have cancard...


----------



## below_freezing

alam.saquiba said:


> Russia is developing Pak-FA based on Flankers and Berkut, I think no one feel bad if its termed as stealth flanker... (Though this is a new plane under the skin).. same goes for J20, Its design is totally based on LAVI (which Saint Amerika provided china to counter Devil Russia)...
> 
> J20 is in many way different than LAVI but based on it... *I am no where saying that its not chinies product..* Its very much chinies baby, so don feel bad...
> 
> LCA is not based on MiG21, coz both are entirely different design, even Its design match with Mirage and saab viggen, but its no where related to those (may be India have stolen some blue print from these countries  ) But uncle sam never gave/approve us LAVI/F20/MiG33..
> 
> 
> So whatever it is, Its our design...
> 
> Soon we will come with AMCA...



yes, J-20 is based on lavi. Lavi is obviously a 2 engine plane with canards... wait you just described the EF2000, why not say we stole the EF2000? Oh s*t i just gave them some ideas...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> yes, J-20 is based on lavi. Lavi is obviously a 2 engine plane with canards... wait you just described the EF2000, why not say we stole the EF2000? Oh s*t i just gave them some ideas...



Lavi is also a stealth fighter. 

Gimme a break my dear Hindu friends.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

tkunk8 said:


> Up for success! tell me how upload pictures



To add a picture to your post:

1. Go to a free hosting service (i.e. imgur.com, imageshack.com, photobucket.com, or tinypic.com). Personally, I prefer IMGUR.com. Anyway, type "IMGUR.com" to go to their home page.

2. Click on "browse" button.

3. Select picture to upload from your computer onto the hosting service.

4. Copy and then Paste url link to your picture for "message boards" on IMGUR.com. The procedure is similar on Imageshack. I've used both and IMGUR.com is a lot faster and easier.

Good luck. If you have any questions, just leave a message here.

----------

Please ignore the newcomer troll "alam" about the super Lavi. If you don't feed it, he will go away very quickly. Thank you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BigTree.CN

Well, that is so typical for some people to claim that J20 is based on Lavi. 

We Chinese are just too smart, we are not only able to build a 3G aircraft J10 based on Lavi, but also able to be inspired by Lavi to build a 4G aircraft J20. 

Next time if we manage to come up with a 5G fighter plane, don't be surprised if people say that is based on Lavi, too.

Lavi is going to be the mother of all Chinese future fighter planes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## alam.saquiba

> Lavi is going to be the mother of all Chinese future fighter planes.



Ya LAVI and Flanker will be the mother of all project.... Coz this is the two fighter (J10 and J11) you made/copy first... whats wrong in accepting it??? Its not bad to copy till its satisfying your needs.... 

See we all know the truth, nothing is hidden in this information age... 

Reverse engineering, illegal copying are the two way to bridge the technological gaps... If I would be deciding factor, I would have done same to improve Indian research .... c


----------



## alam.saquiba

> Lavi is also a stealth fighter.
> 
> Gimme a break my dear Hindu friends.



Kid did I said that??? dont put your word in my mouth... learn English be4 ranting.. and please change ur flag to green color... you can't fool us by changing green to red ...


and By the way I am Ahmedi, not Hindu...:x


----------



## Mani2020

alam.saquiba said:


> Russia is developing Pak-FA based on Flankers and Berkut, I think no one feel bad if its termed as stealth flanker... (Though this is a new plane under the skin).. same goes for J20, Its design is totally based on LAVI (which Saint Amerika provided china to counter Devil Russia)...
> 
> J20 is in many way different than LAVI but based on it... *I am no where saying that its not chinies product..* Its very much chinies baby, so don feel bad...
> 
> LCA is not based on MiG21, coz both are entirely different design, even Its design match with Mirage and saab viggen, but its no where related to those (may be India have stolen some blue print from these countries  ) But uncle sam never gave/approve us LAVI/F20/MiG33..
> 
> 
> So whatever it is, Its our design...
> 
> Soon we will come with AMCA...




If you would have little bit of info on Aerodynamics then you would not have been making such insane comments ( including all your previous posts) or is it your habbit to troll?

Ok let me ask you to do 3 things before praising FGFA

1) Look at the IRST positioning on FGFA and compare ot to F-22
2) Look at the air-intakes
3) Look at the canopy

FGFA is still a RAW form of upgraded su-27 ,the body has bit oval shape but not that much when compared to F-22 and if you know about stealth you would know what i mean

Secondly where does Lavi came from? ok if you have said that J-10 is an exact copy of Lavi project still then one would have smiled at you but you saying J-20 is copy of Lavi .let me use a single word for you "Insane" totaly pissed of and unable to digest someone's success 

Now stop trolling and refrain yourself from bringing up such bogus claims

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

alam.saquiba said:


> Kid did I said that??? dont put your word in my mouth... learn English be4 ranting.. and please change ur flag to green color... you can't fool us by changing green to red ...
> 
> 
> and By the way I am Ahmedi, not Hindu...:x



Look Ahmedi, the rules of the forum are pretty simple. If you want to make an extraordinary claim that the J-20 is based on the Lavi then you have to post an article from a reputable publication, such as Jane's Defence Weekly, Aviation Week, New York Times, etc., to support your incredible claim.

If you cannot, you should refrain from making unsubstantiated claims of copying. Otherwise, it is only a short time before the moderators catch up to you and ban you for disrupting the forum (by inflaming long-time members) and trying to derail the thread.

There are many visitors to this forum who are searching for quality information on China's J-20 stealth fighter. You, Ahmedi, are intentionally spreading misinformation and defaming China with your reckless charges of copying. I have reported you and the moderators will be scrutinizing your absurd posts.

Enjoy the forum during your short stay and good luck to you after you're banned.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Awesome

Alam, what is your backing of the claim that J-20 has any connection to the Lavi?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## alam.saquiba

> Look Ahmedi, the rules of the forum are pretty simple. If you want to make an extraordinary claim that the J-20 is based on the Lavi then you have to post an article from a reputable publication, such as Jane's Defence Weekly, Aviation Week, New York Times, etc., to support your incredible claim.
> 
> If you cannot, you should refrain from making unsubstantiated claims of copying. Otherwise, it is only a short time before the moderators catch up to you and ban you for disrupting the forum (by inflaming long-time members) and trying to derail the thread.
> 
> There are many visitors to this forum who are searching for quality information on China's J-20 stealth fighter. You, Ahmedi, are intentionally spreading misinformation and defaming China with your reckless charges of copying. I have reported you and the moderators will be scrutinizing your absurd posts.
> 
> Enjoy the forum during your short stay and good luck to you after you're banned.



O is it??? Is this forum so sensitive that it ban the member for such silly reason, If its so then I doubt how come so many ppl are here... 

I am defaming china!!! oh! please don joke.... I am not saying anything like this... Its again your perception and prejudice against me,.... 


*Let the moderator scrutinize, I am sure that if they are not under your influence they will understand that my points are not offensives .. *

rest Allah knows, anything happen in PDF...


----------



## Martian2

alam.saquiba said:


> This is my comment, where did it say that the J20 is copy of LAVI???? Why are you putting your words in my mouth...
> 
> I just gave it a name.. nothing more than that....



You are being disingenuous.

"I bet the J20 Aka [also known as] super Lavi..."

You have implicitly claimed that the J-20 is a copy of the Lavi; hence your designation of "super Lavi." I have read over twenty Western articles on the J-20 and not a single one refers to the Lavi. The J-20 has been consistently compared to the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning (e.g. see Australia Air Power, New York Times, CNN, Aviation Week, Jane's, etc.).

There is nothing more sad than a troll that refuses to stand his ground when caught. Why don't you just admit the truth and acknowledge that you were slandering China's achievement by belittling the J-20 as nothing more than a "super Lavi" or mere copy of Israeli technology. We all know that's what you're saying.

Six members, with four long-time members (each with over 1,000 posts), on this forum have correctly interpreted your reckless and dismissive claim that the J-20 is a copy of the Lavi. See posts #334 (by Below_Freezing), #335 (by ChineseTiger1986), #336 (by S10), #343 (by BigTree.CN), #346 (by Mani2020), and #347 (by me).

You should be banned because there are many new guests that are reading this popular thread. Your absurd claim will confuse them and bring disrepute to our forum as a source of misinformation and ridiculous claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## alam.saquiba

Ow! stop bulling me... My posts are clear and must be read with open mind..

I am not responsible if any one interpret sentence in his/her perspective.. I made my point clear... 

I just call it a with a name (which as per my understanding is not bad name) and nothing else....

By the way Why I am replying to you??? cut it....


----------



## SBD-3

alam.saquiba said:


> Russia is developing Pak-FA based on Flankers and Berkut, I think no one feel bad if its termed as stealth flanker... (Though this is a new plane under the skin).. same goes for J20, Its design is totally based on LAVI (which Saint Amerika provided china to counter Devil Russia)...
> 
> J20 is in many way different than LAVI but based on it... *I am no where saying that its not chinies product..* Its very much chinies baby, so don feel bad...
> 
> LCA is not based on MiG21, coz both are entirely different design, even Its design match with Mirage and saab viggen, but its no where related to those (may be India have stolen some blue print from these countries  ) But uncle sam never gave/approve us LAVI/F20/MiG33..
> 
> 
> So whatever it is, Its our design...
> 
> Soon we will come with AMCA...



......ladies and gentlemen!!!, after stromforce, I present to you this year's MISTER STUPIDITY mr.alam.saquiba ......

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## pzkilo

hasnain0099 said:


> ......ladies and gentlemen!!!, after stromforce, I present to you this year's MISTER STUPIDITY mr.alam.saquiba ......



haha, exactly

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## rockstarIN

hasnain0099 said:


> ......ladies and gentlemen!!!, after stromforce, I present to you this year's MISTER STUPIDITY mr.alam.saquiba ......



Boss, instead of personal attack, counter his argument with your points, which make this forum more worthy.

He has every right to share his view points.

Martian2's above most makes more sense...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mani2020

rockstar said:


> Boss, instead of personal attack, counter his argument with your points, which make this forum more worthy.
> 
> He has every right to share his view points.
> 
> Martian2's above most makes more sense...



One can only counter comments that are worthy of it and his comments are silly .If you can stop him judging on the basis of he being your country man for few minutes rather judge him by the comments he is making then honestly tell us do they make any sense? he is calling J-20 a super lavi and on the other hand in next post he is saying he has not said J-20 as lavi? ok even if he thinks so still many members have clarified or atleast tried to clarified him but still he is making lame excuses for anything and if somebody is stopping him then he is challenging the credibility of this forum .

If he has this frustration its not our fault better he should take it out on some other thing and not derail this thread

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## rockstarIN

Mani2020 said:


> One can only counter comments that are worthy of it and his comments are silly .If you can stop him judging on the basis of he being your country man for few minutes rather judge him by the comments he is making then honestly tell us do they make any sense? he is calling J-20 a super lavi and on the other hand in next post he is saying he has not said J-20 as lavi? ok even if he thinks so still many members have clarified or atleast tried to clarified him but still he is making lame excuses for anything and if somebody is stopping him then he is challenging the credibility of this forum .
> 
> If he has this frustration its not our fault better he should take it out on some other thing and not derail this thread




Even I do not see any point in those arguments, if you think your explanation is not taken into account, just ignore the whole conversation. in my opinion, we all should not attack anybody personally, if their post not make sense and not upto the mark, they will only lose their credibility. 
Again its my opinion..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mani2020

rockstar said:


> Even I do not see any point in those arguments, if you think your explanation is not taken into account, just ignore the whole conversation. in my opinion, we all should not attack anybody personally, if their post not make sense and not upto the mark, they will only lose their credibility.
> Again its my opinion..




And if we will not stop them then this forum will loose credibility

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Brotherhood

*&#27570;20&#35430;&#39131;&#21729;&#35527;&#39318;&#39131;&#65306;&#24863;&#35258;&#22826;&#22909;&#12288;&#36996;&#19981;&#36942;&#30318;*
J-20 test pilot talk about the first flight, feeling really good but not enough satisfaction yet.






J-20 first flight pilot &#26446;&#21083; training in south africa.





Picture of &#26446;&#21083; the forth person from the left during test flight training in South africa.
????????20????????????????

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aimarraul

celebration party

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## mjnaushad

alam.saquiba said:


> I disagree, The chinies philosophy is , Include the weapon first then later test/upgrade it...
> 
> I bet the J20 Aka super Lavi will be included in PLAF much much before FGFA or PAK-Fa...
> 
> I have worked for Chinese company, their product is tested at client site.. Americans and European spent >=60&#37; resources on testing. While Chinese companies spent minimal amount on testing... (This is my personal experience...)
> 
> But 2013 is very aggressive date..





alam.saquiba said:


> Russia is developing Pak-FA based on Flankers and Berkut, I think no one feel bad if its termed as stealth flanker... (Though this is a new plane under the skin).. same goes for J20, Its design is totally based on LAVI (which Saint Amerika provided china to counter Devil Russia)...
> 
> J20 is in many way different than LAVI but based on it... *I am no where saying that its not chinies product..* Its very much chinies baby, so don feel bad...
> 
> LCA is not based on MiG21, coz both are entirely different design, even Its design match with Mirage and saab viggen, but its no where related to those (may be India have stolen some blue print from these countries  ) But uncle sam never gave/approve us LAVI/F20/MiG33..
> 
> 
> So whatever it is, Its our design...
> 
> Soon we will come with AMCA...





alam.saquiba said:


> By the way, My cordial and heartily congratulation to Chinese brothers... This machine look awesome... I love cancard... The first I saw russian bomber with cancard and I fell in love with this design...
> 
> I wish LCA could have cancard...





alam.saquiba said:


> Ya LAVI and Flanker will be the mother of all project.... Coz this is the two fighter (J10 and J11) you made/copy first... whats wrong in accepting it??? Its not bad to copy till its satisfying your needs....
> 
> See we all know the truth, nothing is hidden in this information age...
> 
> Reverse engineering, illegal copying are the two way to bridge the technological gaps... If I would be deciding factor, I would have done same to improve Indian research .... c





alam.saquiba said:


> Kid did I said that??? dont put your word in my mouth... learn English be4 ranting.. and please change ur flag to green color... you can't fool us by changing green to red ...
> 
> 
> and By the way I am Ahmedi, not Hindu...:x



















DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING????????????


THIS IS J20







THIS IS LAVI






THIS IS J10B







THIS IS EUROFIGHTER

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## mjnaushad

rockstar said:


> Boss, instead of personal attack, counter his argument with your points, which make this forum more worthy.
> 
> He has every right to share his view points.
> 
> Martian2's above most makes more sense...


I would love to counter his point..... but tell me where are those "points" in his posts.... he is just shooting in dark with no idea of what he is saying.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> Thank you. Do not feed the anti-Chinese you-know-who. His opinions are worthwhile only on non-Chinese matters. When it comes to China, his inner-biased demon comes out.


When it comes to aviation, my opinions are more credible than yours and everyone knows it.


----------



## rockstarIN

aimarraul said:


> celebration party



You exposed them to CIA..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Speeder 2

@ alam.saquiba.

IMHO, not every stuff with 2 wings are copies of each other.

In your opinion, if Obama a "copy" of Super John McCain, or vice versus?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Speeder 2

gambit said:


> When it comes to aviation, my opinions are more credible than yours and everyone knows it.



C'mon, gambit. Hey, at least he didn't say that J-20 is a copy of LCA Tejas  

The way he reasons reminds me the following question:

Answer me honestly, is alam.saquiba your newest protégé?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Speeder 2

self-delete


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

alam.saquiba said:


> Ya LAVI and Flanker will be the mother of all project.... Coz this is the two fighter (J10 and J11) you made/copy first... whats wrong in accepting it??? Its not bad to copy till its satisfying your needs....
> 
> See we all know the truth, nothing is hidden in this information age...
> 
> Reverse engineering, illegal copying are the two way to bridge the technological gaps... If I would be deciding factor, I would have done same to improve Indian research .... c




Are you indians crazy insane? Your LAC is a junk based on Mirage-2000, and you are pointig your finger on J-20?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

hasnain0099 said:


> ......ladies and gentlemen!!!, after stromforce, I present to you this year's MISTER STUPIDITY mr.alam.saquiba ......





Dont worry, he will soon be banned. Let him keep clowning and troll.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

gambit said:


> When it comes to aviation, my opinions are more credible than yours and everyone knows it.



Let me modify your statement. Your opinions are more credible than mine on non-Chinese aviation. When China enters the picture, you become emotional and lose your objectivity. That's where the problems start.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Brotherhood

Martian2 said:


> Let me modify your statement. Your opinions are more credible than mine on non-Chinese aviation. When China enters the picture, you become emotional and lose your objectivity. That's where the problems start.



Bro, you hit the nail, his hate against China is built-in so do not expect anything other than negativity from a self-hated traitor, his bias view regarding China is well known on this forum.
Remember his so-called "Photochops" accusation regarding J-20's pictures, now he knew he ate his words so the next stage will be some bias inferiority claim.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

ArjunaTheWarrior said:


> all i can say about this plane is ...
> 
> it can hit hard on far away strategic force multipliers ...
> 
> whether they are naval ships or AWACS ...
> 
> i dont agree with experts who say canards wont b good for a stealth fighter ...
> 
> at low subsonic speed whr canards will give it much needed balance it will be almost equal LO in frontal aspect than F-22 flying in supercruise at a higher altitude ... so impossible for detect if it approaches an Indian air defense site or an american CBG flying subsonic at lower altitude ...
> 
> a sure shot killer (Amogh Astra in indian words) ...
> 
> Indians should be alarmed and whoever who sees a future conflict with china ...
> 
> i was never impressed with ballistic missile killing a AC .. but this sure can do that
> 
> congrats to all Chinese ppl ...




Actually, ballistic missiles are the best way to kill carrier. Even if J-20 is stealthy and can penetrite AC air defense, it will be expose to F-18 after the strike. 

Ballistic missile, if made correctly with the help of satilite guidence and other guidence can strike the AC with deadly impact. Ballistic missile travling at March 10 or March 15 will be near impossible to intercept and image the SHEAR kenetic force March 10 and March 15 translate into!!!

4 DF-21D or DF-21C with accuracy close to 5 m^2 can strike carriers from well over 2000 KM away, safe and secure without the loss of a single pilot. Also DF-21 is much cheaper, 10 DF-21 only costs 200 million dollars, but a J-20 will cost over 100 million plus a pilot.

You indians dont know much about Chinese millitary, if Chinese will use planes to strike the carriers they will not have developed the ASBM system!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> Let me modify your statement. Your opinions are more credible than mine on non-Chinese aviation. *When China enters the picture, you become emotional and lose your objectivity.* That's where the problems start.


Utter BS. Show me a single instance of where I distort the laws of physics to criticize any fantastic claims you boys made about Chinese aviation.


----------



## gambit

AerospaceEngineer said:


> Actually, ballistic missiles are the best way to kill carrier.


Questionable for now.



AerospaceEngineer said:


> Ballistic missile, if made correctly with the help of satilite guidence and other guidence can strike the AC with deadly impact.


There goes that 'if' again. The various methods of that 'if' have been debated here before and all of them have been found either problematic or a countermeasure already exist.



AerospaceEngineer said:


> Ballistic missile travling at March 10 or March 15 will be near impossible to intercept and image the SHEAR kenetic force March 10 and March 15 translate into!!!


That interception is no longer 'near impossible'. The Nike Zeus program back in the 1960s approached a descending warhead within a couple hundred meters.



AerospaceEngineer said:


> 4 DF-21D or DF-21C with accuracy close to 5 m^2 can strike carriers from well over 2000 KM away, safe and secure without the loss of a single pilot.


In a ship versus missile engagement, if the warhead failed by one meter, the ship win.


----------



## Martian2

gambit said:


> Utter BS. Show me a single instance of where I distort the laws of physics to criticize any fantastic claims you boys made about Chinese aviation.



Feel free to peruse your old posts where you claimed that the J-20 was photoshopped. You did not objectively assess China's military technological development.

Also, you made a big silly fuss over the position of the J-20's landing gear. To my knowledge, you are the only person in the world to view that photograph and claim a software problem. You believed that the software problem would lead to the J-20's inability to fly. Obviously, you were dead wrong.

We have all seen your lack of objectivity when it comes to China. Your refusal to admit your strong anti-China bias has been a disappointment to all of us. Until you recognize your problem, you cannot take steps to remedy your defect.


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> Feel free to peruse your old posts where you claimed that *the J-20 was photoshopped.* You did not objectively assess China's military technological development.


And how many versions were there? 



Martian2 said:


> Also, you made a big silly fuss over the position of the J-20's landing gear.


Silly? That observation is also over at sinodefenseforum. Use keywords search and see for yourself there are other places.



Martian2 said:


> To my knowledge, you are the only person in the world to view that photograph and claim a software problem. You believed that the software problem would lead to the J-20's inability to fly. Obviously, you were dead wrong.


Wrong...I suspected. Never claimed.



Martian2 said:


> We have all seen your lack of objectivity when it comes to China. Your refusal to admit your strong anti-China bias has been a disappointment to all of us. Until you recognize your problem, you cannot take steps to remedy your defect.


And I have yet to see evidence of this...


----------



## Martian2

gambit said:


> Silly? That observation is also over at sinodefenseforum. Use keywords search and see for yourself there are other places.



This claim is false. I am a member of SinoDefence (with 586 posts) and I've read every single post on the J-20, except the ones posted in the last 30 minutes.


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> This claim is false. I am a member of SinoDefence (with 586 posts) and I've read every single post on the J-20, except the ones posted in the last 30 minutes.


Unbelievable...See post135190.



> If there is actually such a feature, but it doesn't seem like the case. Recall the picture of the J-20 turning with the left rudder fully deflected. *If there is a ground control law*, the computer would have realized the aircraft is not flying and it would not needed to deflect the rudders at all. Also, watch videos of J-10 taxing and you will see the canards deflect to compensate for change in pitch-rate as the landing gears go over uneven surface. Again, if there is a ground feature programmed in, the computer would know that the aircraft is taxing and there would be no need to deflect the canards. Therefore, I highly suspect that the control law being used on the ground is the flight control law for the lowest speed.
> 
> Do not assume that flight computers have the same situation awareness as the pilot does. Think of these computers as calculators. Flight control laws are nothing more than implementation of mathematical equations that relate flight controls deflection to pilot's inputs. If you can't formulate the equations, you can't make the flight control laws.


Flight control laws ring a bell?


----------



## Martian2

gambit said:


> Unbelievable...
> 
> http://www.*********************/air-force/j-20-new-generation-fighter-168-4260.html#post135190



Link doesn't work. Copy and paste the post and I'll look at it.


----------



## siegecrossbow

gambit said:


> Unbelievable...See post135190.
> 
> 
> Flight control laws ring a bell?



What really is unbelievable is your insistence on "educating" the so called fanboys.


----------



## gambit

siegecrossbow said:


> What really is unbelievable is your insistence on "educating" the so called fanboys.


Make that debunking...


----------



## Martian2

gambit said:


> Unbelievable...See post135190.
> 
> 
> Flight control laws ring a bell?



What is the post # on that? Also, is the post located in the opened or closed thread?

However, I will provide you with my provisional apology that you are one of the very few anti-China skeptics in the world (but not the only one) to raise the possibility of a flight-control software problem, which was obviously proven wrong.


----------



## xixi

leave that viet alone, you bad guys

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> What is the post # on that? Also, is the post located in the opened or closed thread?


It is on a closed thread. But it is telling that you cannot find it when I am looking at it right now...



Martian2 said:


> However, I will provide you with my provisional apology that you are one of the very few anti-China skeptics in the world (but not the only one) to raise the possibility of a flight-control software problem, which was obviously proven wrong.


How can a possibility be proven wrong? The *CONTENTS* inside that possibility can be wrong and you cannot prove that. But let me guess, Chinese programmers are perfect...


----------



## Martian2

gambit said:


> It is on a closed thread. But it is telling that you cannot find it when I am looking at it right now...
> 
> How can a possibility be proven wrong? The *CONTENTS* inside that possibility can be wrong and you cannot prove that. But let me guess, Chinese programmers are perfect...



You do realize that your baseless criticism is not different in principle from all of the other endless whisper campaigns against China's J-20 stealth fighter?

For example, it's not that stealthy! It has canards!

It's a copy!

It's a software problem!

It's a hardware problem!

It's a pilot problem!

It may not fly!

It's stolen!

It has poor workmanship, because it's made in China! (Despite the obvious qualify finish on the flying aircraft.)

In other words, your anti-China bias and lack of objectivity have served to deliberately confuse and mislead people that read this thread. Have you considered taking a vacation and camping out in the other sub-forums? I'm sure the Indians, Pakistanis, Turks, Americans, and others would enjoy your company.

The Chinese sub-forum and members would appreciate a break from your constant naysaying and anti-China propaganda (e.g. could be a software problem, could be a hardware problem, could not fly, could be an anything problem based on any trivial excuse and then it is quickly proven wrong to the detriment of your credibility).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> You do realize that your baseless criticism is not different in principle from all of the other endless whisper campaigns against China's J-20 stealth fighter?
> 
> For example, it's not that stealthy! It has canards!
> 
> It's a copy!
> 
> It's a software problem!
> 
> It's a hardware problem!
> 
> It's a pilot problem!
> 
> It may not fly!
> 
> It's stolen!
> 
> It has poor workmanship, because it's made in China! (Despite the obvious qualify finish on the flying aircraft.)
> 
> In other words, your anti-China bias and lack of objectivity have served to deliberately confuse and mislead people that read this thread. Have you considered taking a vacation and camping out in the other sub-forums? I'm sure the Indians, Pakistanis, Turks, Americans, and others would enjoy your company.
> 
> The Chinese sub-forum and members would appreciate a break from your constant naysaying and anti-China propaganda (e.g. could be a software problem, could be a hardware problem, could not fly, could be an anything problem based on any trivial excuse and then it is quickly proven wrong to the detriment of your credibility).


Let me add to that list => http://www.defence.pk/forums/1414306-post26.html


----------



## gpit

gambit said:


> When it comes to aviation, my opinions are more credible than yours and everyone knows it.



Wow, wow... easy, easy, aviation expert!  *do you still remember this?*


gambit said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the above example, we are looking at an airfoil in the motion familiar with flight, either in the horizontal or vertical axis. As the aspect angle changes, deflections are created and at the airfoil's trailing edge, we have the 'knife edge' diffraction effect. Diffraction fields are scattering points. With multiple flight control surfaces creating many diffraction fields, the scattering points can merge as destructive interference or constructive interference. The latter will contribute to the aircraft's total RCS. There will be some reflections on the leading edge that will return to source direction, they are called 'specular reflections'.
> 
> Scattering points from diffraction fields are serious enough to warrant a major design factor for the B-2...
> 
> ...





And I recommend everybody watch *from here*  a great &#8220;invention&#8221; of physics laws unveiled in front of you by the pseudo-expert, a.k.a. an high-school dropout turned quasi-pundit, that electro-magnetic field can be demonstrated by using air flow velocity field . 

*Greater amusement is guaranteed!*  and it's free of charge. 



...just realized: the successful flight of j20 must be a pain in the @ss for this guy.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xixi

gpit said:


> Wow, wow... easy, easy, aviation expert!  *do you still remember this?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I recommend everybody watch *from here*  a great invention of physics laws unveiled in front of you by the pseudo-expert, a.k.a. an high-school dropout turned quasi-pundit, that electro-magnetic field can be demonstrated by using air flow velocity field .
> 
> *Greater amusement is guaranteed!*  and it's free of charge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...just realized: the successful flight of j20 must be a pain in the @ss for this guy.


----------



## gambit

gpit said:


> Wow, wow... easy, easy, aviation expert!  *do you still remember this?*


Absolutely I do . And I still have *YET* to see anything from you and your pals to show anything remotely similar to explain the fantastic claims you boys made......I got no problems admitting am lousy at Photochop. I leave that crown to you boys.


----------

