# Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed.



## Foxtrot-Bravo

Just got the news regarding a militant lead attack on a small air force base situated in Badaber.

*Any Details?

Updated 1:













*

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## pak-marine

hope its halted resulting in a total failure for the pigs of hell and their genes

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## I.R.A

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Just got the news regarding a militant lead attack on a small air force base situated in Badaber.
> 
> *Any Details?*



News says Camp. I don't know if there is a difference between a Camp and a small base.

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## The Sandman

Yes just saw it on ARY man not again

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Color_Less_Sky said:


> News says Camp. I don't know if there is a difference between a Camp and a small base.




Its just a camp, not a base. No flying and it just used for small trainee courses and attachments.



DesertFox97 said:


> Yes just saw it on ARY man not again




For now, No causalities have been reported and *AirForce, Army & Police* are just about to start counter attack and search operation for the hell bounds.



pak-marine said:


> hope its halted resulting in a total failure for the pigs of hell and their genes




For now its halted, no allied causalities reported. Counter and search offensive is about to begin. 

I am impressed by the quick action of quick response force.

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## ganesh623

Whats the point of such attacks ?
Any more details ?


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

ganesh623 said:


> Whats the point of such attacks ?
> Any more details ?




Nothing yet, initially they attacked the main guard room. AirForce has a tradition of gaurdrooms between the main gates on all its bases and camps.

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## Daneshmand

Hopefully no loss of life has occurred.

This is the base: Camp Badaber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It used to be one of the most secret sites during the Cold War for electronic and airborne espionage against Soviet Union. Has been mentioned in numerous books and documentaries.

Edit: Sadly it appears now that many died at the hands of Takfiris. My condolences.My previously written wish for hope still stands for future.

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## AsianLion

More like Hindustani terrorists, but seems not a big base, not much loss.


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## The Sandman

Ary is reporting that there are no casualities so far Alhamdulillah  i hope they capture them alive

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## ganesh623

PESHAWAR (Dunya News) – Terrorists attacked Pakistan Air Force (PAF) camp in Badaber, Peshawar early morning on Friday. Terrorists targeted the guard room of the camp.

The exchange of fire still on-going between the Forces and the terrorists.



AsianUnion said:


> More like Hindustani terrorists, but seems not a big base, not much loss.


Catch the terrorists first and then trace their identity. I can bet $ all of them will trace back to pakistan only.

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## untitled

So far nothing on dawn


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

And now the news have arrived from ISPR that Pakistan Air Force has made the militants retreat, even didn't let them in. 

*A Big Hug For You Jawans*

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## untitled

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> as made the militants retreat, even didn't let them in.



Should have been captured


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

persona_non_grata said:


> Should have been captured




They have ran into the civilian buildings in the rear of the camp, counter offensive has been launched already.

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## Indus Pakistan

Daneshmand said:


> Hopefully no loss of life has occurred.
> 
> This is the base: Camp Badaber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> It used to be one of the most secret sites during the Cold War for electronic and airborne espionage against Soviet Union. Has been mentioned in numerous books and documentaries.



Yes your right. It was the base from which Gary Powers in 1960 took off for spy mission over Soviet Union but was shot down.

1960 U-2 incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Francis Gary Powers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Bossman

Badaber was a listening station and residential area for the Americans it had no air field. U2 flew from Peshawar air base

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## Adecypher

I hope the terrorists will be caught alive so that their financiers and handlers will also be revealed...

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## WaLeEdK2

Our boys responded well.

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## EagleEyes

Hoping no casualties!!

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## VelocuR

WTF, possible India's terrorists groups again, why again?


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## Asli Lahori1

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Just got the news regarding a militant lead attack on a small air force base situated in Badaber.
> 
> *Any Details?
> 
> Updated:
> 
> View attachment 257879
> View attachment 257879
> View attachment 257881
> *



Hopefully some mother@#$%rs will be caught alive.

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## Pakistanisage

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Its just a camp, not a base. No flying and it just used for small trainee courses and attachments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For now, No causalities have been reported and *AirForce, Army & Police* are just about to start counter attack and search operation for the hell bounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For now its halted, no allied causalities reported. Counter and search offensive is about to begin.
> 
> I am impressed by the quick action of quick response force.




Good job Jawans. Send these morons to hell.

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## Path-Finder

It has been suppressed. well responded!

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## The Sandman

No friendly casualty, 3 dogs are dead awesome

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## Shamain

What group its going to be? Ttp or lej


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Pakistanisage said:


> Good. Send some more moron TALIBUNEES. We need to train our people in real live situations.
> 
> Nothing like real war conditions to keep our Jawans fighting fit and battle hardy...


True that.



Asli Lahori1 said:


> Hopefully some mother@#$%rs will be caught alive.




Can only hope.

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## war&peace

It would be great if some of them are captured alive so that further links can be found and their roots are destroyed.

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## N/A

Can't wait to see the response these dogs get courtesy of the PAF

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## VelocuR

*Militants attack PAF camp in Peshawar, three terrorists killed: ISPR*






PESHAWAR: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) camp at Inqalab road in Peshawar's Badaber area has come under attack early Friday.

Three militants have been killed in an exchange of fire with security forces, Director-General Inter Services Public Relations Major-General Asim Bajwa said on Twitter.






Security forces at the scene of the attack. ─ DawnNews screengrab.
The attack was carried out by a group of seven to 10 terrorists, he said.

Following the attack, a heavy contingent of the Quick Reaction Force (QRF) reached the spot. Exchange of fire with the militants is ongoing. The area has been sealed by security forces.






The DG ISPR said terrorists attacked the guard room at the camp early in the morning. The QRF reached the scene and surrounded the attackers, isolating them.

Bajwa confirmed that around seven to 10 terrorists had attempted to break into the camp. The terrorists had been engaged and contained around the guard room area of the camp.

He said three terrorists had been killed so far, while the rest had been confined to a small area.

No group has claimed responsibility for the attack as yet.






On Aug 16, 2012 militants armed with rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons had carried out a brazen attack under cover of darkness on the Minhas base of the PAF at Kamra, Dawn newspaper reported. The Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) had claimed responsibility for the assault on Kamra air base.

Peshawar has suffered numerous Taliban attacks but it was not immediately clear who was behind this ambush.

The city suffered the worst terror attack in Pakistani history in December 2014 when TTP gunmen massacred more than 150 people, most of them children, at an army-run school.

But recently then there has been a lull in violence. The last deadly attack in the city came in February when three heavily armed Taliban militants stormed a Shia mosque, killing 21 people.

Military operation Zarb-i-Azb was launched against insurgent hideouts in North Waziristan on June 15 following a brazen militant attack on Karachi's international airport and the failure of peace talks between the government and TTP negotiators.

Officials say nearly 3,000 militants have been killed since the launch of the latest offensive.

_This is a developing story that will be further updated as new information is received.

Militants attack PAF camp in Peshawar, three terrorists killed: ISPR - Pakistan - DAWN.COM_

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## ito

VelocuR said:


> WTF, possible India's terrorists groups again, why again?



Taliban is group raised by Pak ISI for Afghan war, why blame India?

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## I.R.A

Pakistanisage said:


> Good. Send some more moron TALIBUNEES. We need to train our people in real live situations.
> 
> Nothing like real war like conditions to keep our Jawans fighting fit and battle hardy...



Sir with all the respect ................... where is intelligence in all this? 7 to 10 terrorists attacking a forces camp in one of big cities and we had to defend it as always? Nobody can question the bravery of our brothers defending us in these attacks, but why people responsible for tracking handlers and financiers and supporters of these attackers have not been up to mark?

I would have loved if their surprise attack would have turned a big surprise for themselves.

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## Path-Finder

All terrorist dead DG ISPR.

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## agamdilawari

Butcher them man. These savages deserve nothing less !!

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## Shamain

But if its really ttp then how is it possible?zarb e azb had kpk massively cleaned up of this filth.

Just wondering if its lej going that far.


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## nomi007

hope all jets and military equipment are save


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

5 tangos naturalized, Maj Haseeb from QRF has taken a bullet injury and has been admitted in CMH.

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## Rashid Mahmood



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## gangsta_rap

Heard somewhere in the news that one the attackers was tattooed

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## Rashid Mahmood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/644711195514023936

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## VelocuR

ito said:


> Taliban is group raised by Pak ISI for Afghan war, why blame India?



Well, in the past years, these terrorists are actively supported from India's links to attack Pakistan, everyone know it. 

Let's wait for investigations, please just get lost and go celebrate yourself.

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## Adecypher

GIANTsasquatch said:


> Heard somewhere in the news that one the attackers was tattooed


IF this is true then this specific information should be brought to limelight as well...and NOT like the last time when a similar incident was systematically snubbed by the media (in - house and foreign both).

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## Shamain

VelocuR said:


> Let's wait for investigations, please just get lost and go celebrate yourself.


Seriously insan itna parshan hota hai aur inki bakwas hee nahi khatam hoti.they never evn see the ocassion.

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## Humble Analyst

ito said:


> Taliban is group raised by Pak ISI for Afghan war, why blame India?


Come on man they are copy cat example Hollywood Bollywood. Shame on those who support them kil


ito said:


> Taliban is group raised by Pak ISI for Afghan war, why blame India?


Because India was supporting them from 15 consulates in Afghanistan, because they use the name of Taliban and it is c


ito said:


> Taliban is group raised by Pak ISI for Afghan war, why blame India?


So 15 Indian consulates in Afghanistan, supporting these terrorists who attacked children in schools. Shame on those who support them and shame on World for not controlling India. They are using the name of Taliban so to carry out terrorist attacks against Pakistan and then blame Pakistan for it too.


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## Roybot

Humble Analyst said:


> Come on man they are copy cat example Hollywood Bollywood. Shame on those who support them kil
> 
> Because India was supporting them from 15 consulates in Afghanistan, because they use the name of Taliban and it is c
> 
> So 15 Indian consulates in Afghanistan, supporting these terrorists who attacked children in schools. Shame on those who support them and shame on World for not controlling India. They are using the name of Taliban so to carry out terrorist attacks against Pakistan and then blame Pakistan for it too.



India has 4 consulates and 1 embassy in Afghanistan, stop spreading rumours.

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## HariPrasad

Path-Finder said:


> All terrorist dead DG ISPR.



That is a good job. Carry on guys.

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## Humble Analyst

Roybot said:


> India has 4 consulates and 1 embassy in Afghanistan, stop spreading rumours.


India must have closed some
Stop spreading terrorism amongst neighbors.

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## ito

VelocuR said:


> Well, in the past years, these terrorists are actively supported from India's links to attack Pakistan, everyone know it.
> 
> Let's wait for investigations, please just get lost and go celebrate yourself.





Humble Analyst said:


> Because India was supporting them from 15 consulates in Afghanistan, because they use the name of Taliban and it is c



Taliban is a Islamic group and India is a Hindu majority country. Until now, you could not establish any links between Taliban and India. Your policy of using non state actors to create instability around your neighborhood has failed. That is the reason why all your neighbors: Afghanistan, Iran and India have not so good relations with you.

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## Humble Analyst

ito said:


> Taliban is a Islamic group and India is a Hindu majority country. Until now, you could not establish any links between Taliban and India. Your policy of using non state actors to create instability around your neighborhood has failed. That is the reason why all your neighbors: Afghanistan, Iran and India have not so good relations with you.


We have good relations with all except India's friends because since 1947 India never became a good neighbor to Pakistan.

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## New Resolve

Terrorists are getting desperate. Badaber isnt even a base, its an old American outpost from the 60's when they were launching U2 spy planes into Soviet Territory. Since then its just residential quarters. good to see they got put down fast. apparently no loss of life on our side.

Great Excercise Scenario for the Boys.

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## my2cents

Humble Analyst said:


> Come on man they are copy cat example Hollywood Bollywood. Shame on those who support them kil
> 
> Because India was supporting them from 15 consulates in Afghanistan, because they use the name of Taliban and it is c
> 
> So 15 Indian consulates in Afghanistan, supporting these terrorists who attacked children in schools. Shame on those who support them and shame on World for not controlling India. They are using the name of Taliban so to carry out terrorist attacks against Pakistan and then blame Pakistan for it too.


Do you have the link for those 15 consulates?? Otherwise, f#ck off.

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## ito

Humble Analyst said:


> We have good relations with all except India's friends because since 1947 India never became a good neighbor to Pakistan.



I suggest start reading News daily.

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## Zarvan

WebMaster said:


> Hoping no casualties!!


6 dogs dispatched to hell as for security forces few are injured. PAF should have its own Ground Force and also increase SSW size to 4000 with around 500 deployed to protect PAF bases with snipers deployed 24 hours. Every bases and Army camp should have several LCB taking rounds and protecting them . Today Great Job boys


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## punit

Humble Analyst said:


> We have good relations with all except India's friends because since 1947 India never became a good neighbor to Pakistan.


we know how excellent are ur relation with Afg and what gifts ( bought on petrodollars) u brought for them.

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## my2cents

Humble Analyst said:


> India must have closed some
> Stop spreading terrorism amongst neighbors.



Stop being dumb and dumber.

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## VelocuR

Humble Analyst said:


> We have good relations with all except India's friends because since 1947 India never became a good neighbor to Pakistan.



You have great points but don't need to argue with them. 

It is only Pakistan's interest to find out whose terrorists is or where they come from. 

Chuck Hagel and Ajit Doval spoke clearly about the plans on Pakistan.

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## Chanakyaa

VelocuR said:


> You have great points but don't need to argue with them.
> 
> It is only Pakistan's interest to find out whose terrorists is or where they come from.
> 
> Chuck Hagel and Ajit Doval spoke clearly about the plans on Pakistan.



"Victim" Psycology.

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## chhota bheem

Good job by security forces.

But the attitude of some of the posters ,blaming already is disgusting @Shamain @VelocuR @Humble Analyst .... These people are the type who even if they get 99% in life they still make their life miserable thinking of the other 1%

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## Kompromat

6 taken out so far...


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## fatman17

ganesh623 said:


> Whats the point of such attacks ?
> Any more details ?



Militants are desperate now

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## HRK

Troublemaker said:


> Whole world knows who spreads terrorism.....Pakistan.



& world does not start from DELHI & ends at Mumbai ....

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## Shamain

Ttp took responsibility....weird!!


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## Indus Falcon

Shamain said:


> Ttp took responsibility....weird!!


Why weird?



New Resolve said:


> Terrorists are getting desperate. Badaber isnt even a base, its an old American outpost from the 60's when they were launching U2 spy planes into Soviet Territory. Since then its just residential quarters. good to see they got put down fast. apparently no loss of life on our side.
> 
> Great Excercise Scenario for the Boys.



The attack today was supposed to be another APS Peshawar. Alhumdullilah this time, they failed!!!

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## Shamain

Indus Falcon said:


> Why weird?


I thought they have been wiped out by zarb e azb and all that is left is in shawal valley. So how they sneaked back into te town with all weaponry on them.

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## Zarvan

Media at its best quoting injured from so called sources although ISPR told two injured but ISPR also needs to come with up dates and fast pace

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## Indus Falcon

Shamain said:


> I thought they have been wiped out by zarb e azb and all that is left is in shawal valley. So how they sneaked back into te town with all weaponry on them.



It's not as simple as that.

Guerrilla warfare is a science on it's own. Secondly, these could be sleeper cells or fresh terrorists taking advantage of the porous border.

This attack does prove one thing, that they do not have the capability, in any sense of the word, to attack a hard target. They attacked a residential complex. This says a lot. They are not interested in hitting strategic targets, but soft ones, and creating panic and fear, in the society. 

Alhumdullilah they failed, and will continue to fail InShaAllah!

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## I.R.A

Indus Falcon said:


> This attack does prove one thing, that they do not have the capability, in any sense of the word, to attack a hard target.



This also proves another thing, they still have the freedom to move easily with all the weapons in a big city.

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## !eon

bharti consulates in Afghanistan are doing their job perfectly. 
It's time for some unknown militants to teach these consulates a hard lesson.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Sponsored terrorism from India no doubt

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## I.R.A

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Sponsored terrorism from India no doubt



Without any proofs? There should have been one captured alive, tied in ropes and paraded down the streets with all the media flashing and then declaring that he does not have his nunni cut, and then maybe we can satisfy our neighbors. But now we can just play blame games.

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

COAS leaves for Peshawar.

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## Indus Falcon

Color_Less_Sky said:


> Without any proofs? There should have been one captured alive, tied in ropes and paraded down the streets with all the media flashing and then declaring that he does not have his nunni cut, and then maybe we can satisfy our neighbors. But now we can just play blame games.

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## Neemo neemo

Color_Less_Sky said:


> Without any proofs? There should have been one captured alive, tied in ropes and paraded down the streets with all the media flashing and then declaring that he does not have his nunni cut, and then maybe we can satisfy our neighbors. But now we can just play blame games.


Dude's from Pak watan. 

Dude doesn't need proof. 

Dude knows more than almighty.



Color_Less_Sky said:


> Without any proofs? There should have been one captured alive, tied in ropes and paraded down the streets with all the media flashing and then *declaring that he does not have his nunni cut, *and then maybe we can satisfy our neighbors. But now we can just play blame games.


So do you wanna say that all the terrorists have their nunni cut? 

Post reported for degradation attempt on a specific peaceful religion.

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

02 Valiant sons of soils have laid their lives once again for the protection of motherland and its property. 1 of them was AirForce Guard and the other was from Pakistan Army. 

*They deserve medals, for sure. *

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## PurpleButcher

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> 02 Valiant sons of soils have laid their lives once again for the protection of motherland and its property. 1 of them was AirForce Guard and the other was from Pakistan Army.
> 
> *They deserve medals, for sure. *



2 officers and 10 soldiers are injured only

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Color_Less_Sky said:


> Without any proofs? There should have been one captured alive, tied in ropes and paraded down the streets with all the media flashing and then declaring that he does not have his nunni cut, and then maybe we can satisfy our neighbors. But now we can just play blame games.



There was intercepted call , and we checked the number it was coming from Indian

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

PurpleButcher said:


> 2 officers and 10 soldiers are injured only




Sources are reporting 02 jawans who were on duty in that Guard Room have embraced martyrdom which is quiet good to believe regarding the situation.

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## I.R.A

Neemo neemo said:


> Dude's from Pak watan.
> 
> Dude doesn't need proof.
> 
> Dude knows more than almighty.
> 
> 
> So do you wanna say that all the terrorists have their nunni cut?
> 
> Post reported for degradation attempt on a specific peaceful religion.




Okay replace nunni with pappu will it make any difference? It will still remain uncut. You know this is the problem we need to sort out, this hiding under a cover, staying behind not showing its face, this needs to be sorted out now for once and forever, nunnies need to be separated from pappuz for a spin.

I don't live among the terrorists to know if their nunnies are cut or not, you may know? Any idea?

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## Amaa'n

*@ ALL Pakistani members, please ignore the troll posts, no need to respond to them, on your part just report the post - stay on topic *
@VelocuR @Humble Analyst

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## I.R.A

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Sources are reporting 02 jawans who were on duty in that Guard Room have embraced martyrdom which is quiet good to believe regarding the situation.



إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعونَ

Sad. May ALLAH bless their families with patience, we stand together in their moment of grief and sorrow. It is not only their loss, they were our brothers who laid their lives for us. May ALLAH grant them highest ranks in Firdous Ameen.

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Color_Less_Sky said:


> إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعونَ
> 
> Sad. May ALLAH bless their families with patience, we stand together in their moment of grief and sorrow. It is not only their loss, they were our brothers who laid their lives for us. May ALLAH grant them highest ranks in Firdous Ameen.




True that, We are feeling sad for them but they were lucky, they have left us behind in race of this life, they have done a superior job, the job every jawan wishes off.

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## Imran Khan

great job 8 rats killed with 0 lose of forces


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## I.R.A

Neemo neemo said:


> Dude, you disrespected a peaceful religion.
> 
> You said yourself that you wanted to media to show if his nunni was uncut. So you do know a lot about terrorist and their nunni.
> 
> That's not good. I just hope those terrorist didn't take any advantage of your innocence. You know I've read in dawn.com a lot about bacchabaazi in peshawar.
> 
> I pray to Allah almighty that he gives you peace and akal. May he drive you away from that horrible past of yours.
> 
> Allahu akbar



I am sorry if I hurt your religious sentiments, I had no intention of that and I did not mention any religion in my post, and I don't know how you are relating it to religion, but still my humble apologies for hurting your religious beliefs and feelings.

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## Neemo neemo

Color_Less_Sky said:


> I am sorry if I hurt your religious sentiments, I had no intention of that and I did not mention any religion in my post, and I don't know how you are relating it to religion, but still my humble apologies for hurting your religious beliefs and feelings.


R.I.p soldiers.


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Imran Khan said:


> great job 8 rats killed with 0 lose of forces




02 embraced martyrdom.

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## Max

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> 02 embraced martyrdom.




2 officers and 10 soldiers are injured..

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## Amaa'n

Shamain said:


> I thought they have been wiped out by zarb e azb and all that is left is in shawal valley. So how they sneaked back into te town with all weaponry on them.


with reference to Post # 67 by Indus Falcon I suggest you read 'The Bear Trap' on Afghan Jihad / Guerrilla Warfare , to further grasp the network of Tangos inside pakistan read 'Inside Al Qaeda & Taliban' by saleem shehzad - it takes time to bring in the stability & security,






@Zarvan any idea who are these guys?? khasadar?? but thry have M4s :O

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

mkn_91 said:


> 2 officers and 10 soldiers are injured..



02 jawans who were on duty in the guard room have embraced Shahadat. One of them was from Army and the other from Air Force. Infact, the air force guy was my village mate and I have got multiple confirmations of his shahadat. He was Junior Technician Tariq Abbas.

May ALLAH bless his souls, I will post more updates regarding him as soon as I receive.

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## Zibago

Mullahsaurus murdabad

These violent thekedars of Islam are brainwashing kids in name of Islam to attack other muslims

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## Imran Khan

untill top brass and mullah radio is alive we have risk

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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> with reference to Post # 67 by Indus Falcon I suggest you read 'The Bear Trap' on Afghan Jihad / Guerrilla Warfare , to further grasp the network of Tangos inside pakistan read 'Inside Al Qaeda & Taliban' by saleem shehzad - it takes time to bring in the stability & security,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Zarvan any idea who are these guys?? khasadar?? but thry have M4s :O


No idea I have seen them for first time but KPK police also have been massively equipped




Still this M4 is confusing. They can be PAF guys.

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Zarvan said:


> No idea I have seen them for first time but KPK police also have been massively equipped
> View attachment 257935
> 
> Still this M4 is confusing. They can be PAF guys.




From What I believe, they are PAF guys, SSW.

KPK Police guys are looking lethal dude. One can't normally believe they are from police, Oops.

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## Zarvan

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> From What I believe, they are PAF guys, SSW.
> 
> KPK Police guys are looking lethal dude. One can't normally believe they are from police, Oops.


Thanks to Nasir Durrani and KPK government and training by SSG. They are now lethal hope to see more Snipers and helicopters with them

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## Pandora

Parashu said:


> you reap what you saw



Get lost scum

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## F.O.X

balixd said:


> with reference to Post # 67 by Indus Falcon I suggest you read 'The Bear Trap' on Afghan Jihad / Guerrilla Warfare , to further grasp the network of Tangos inside pakistan read 'Inside Al Qaeda & Taliban' by saleem shehzad - it takes time to bring in the stability & security,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Zarvan any idea who are these guys?? khasadar?? but thry have M4s :O


QRF


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Zarvan said:


> Thanks to Nasir Durrani and KPK government and training by SSG. They are now lethal hope to see more Snipers and helicopters with them




True that, equipping police with helis will be a revolutionary act by KPK Government, an example for others to follow. It will also make them more professional and lethal, so we don't have call upon SSG every time.

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## Zarvan

F.O.X said:


> QRF


They are wearing Blue Uniform

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## Zarvan

13 terrorists killed a massive attack foiled good job forces

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## F.O.X

Zarvan said:


> They are wearing Blue Uniform


That is the color of Air Force. Currently every Air Field has QRF stationed their to thwart any such attacks.

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## Imran Khan

HariPrasad said:


> you tried but end up killing innocent Afghan children, Try next good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> But currently Pakistani forum members are busy in discovering Indian connection.


you both groups of indo-pak haters are lost case

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## Amaa'n

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> From What I believe, they are PAF guys, SSW.
> 
> KPK Police guys are looking lethal dude. One can't normally believe they are from police, Oops.


but all Armed SOF in Pakistan have almost similar woodland Camo, even SSW have same one....
one distant possibility is PAF - DSG (Security Group) but last when i saw them on PAF Kamra base they had similar camo to Army ---- this is why i got confused, blue uniform and carrying M-4

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

balixd said:


> but all Armed SOF in Pakistan have almost similar woodland Camo, even SSW have same one....
> one distant possibility is PAF - DSG (Security Group) but last when i saw them on PAF Kamra base they had similar camo to Army ---- this is why i got confused, blue uniform and carrying M-4




This ain't DSG, DSG has the same army uniform. I can confirm it because I see them everyday, every time at multiple places in Kamra. Infact, DSG HQ and barracks are just 500 meters from my home.

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## fatman17

1. badeber is not a base but a camp.
2. no air assets stationed there.
3. it is used for training activities.
4. media and people shd use the right terminology.
5. all militants neutralized. KIA

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## HariPrasad

Imran Khan said:


> same they also claim what i can do ? you guys need to cool down your brains and look things as they are



Alright.


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## shaheenmissile

TTP boasted too early. Initially PAF staff on duty reported 7-10 attackers. But "thanks to TTP"  they helped in search operation by correcting terrorist count.
13 dead. one to go

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

fatman17 said:


> 1. badeber is not a base but a camp.
> 2. no air assets stationed there.
> 3. it is used for training activities.
> 4. media and people shd use the right terminology.
> 5. all militants neutralized. KIA




Agreed. Its been previously used for flying purposes but that was long ago. Its now used for short training courses and attachments only.

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## Imran Khan

TTP is not ending we need more efforts now sir jee


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## Suff Shikan

Well Done Pak Fauj...

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## shaheenmissile

Imran Khan said:


> TTP is not ending we need more efforts now sir jee


These are desperate "Token attacks" , only to show that they are "Still breathing". They knew they couldn't have done much harm.

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## HariPrasad

Imran Khan said:


> TTP is not ending we need more efforts now sir jee



TTP are very shrewd guys and masters in tactical warfare. They are highly motivated with religious ideology. They are not very easy to defeat.


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## Imran Khan

shaheenmissile said:


> These are desperate "Token attacks" , only to show that they are "Still breathing". They knew they couldn't have done much harm.


this is what pakistani officials claim after every attack since 10 years don't give me lollipop sir i am not kid

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## Amaa'n

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> From What I believe, they are PAF guys, SSW.
> 
> KPK Police guys are looking lethal dude. One can't normally believe they are from police, Oops.


but all Armed SOF in Pakistan have almost similar woodland Camo, even SSW have same one....
one distant possibility is PAF - DSG (Security Group) but last when i saw them on PAF Kamra base they had similar camo to Army ---- this is why i got confused, blue uniform and carrying M-4


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## Imran Khan

HariPrasad said:


> TTP are very shrewd guys and masters in tactical warfare. They are highly motivated with religious ideology. They are not very easy to defeat.


its hard but not imposible and i know our forces are capable to do . but until they never start covert operations in afghanistan they can not defeat these rats

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

balixd said:


> but all Armed SOF in Pakistan have almost similar woodland Camo, even SSW have same one....
> one distant possibility is PAF - DSG (Security Group) but last when i saw them on PAF Kamra base they had similar camo to Army ---- this is why i got confused, blue uniform and carrying M-4




This ain't DSG, DSG has the same army uniform. I can confirm it because I see them everyday, every time at multiple places in Kamra. Infact, DSG HQ and barracks are just 500 meters from my home.

More pictures from different angles.

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## Imran Khan

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> This ain't DSG, DSG has the same army uniform. I can confirm it because I see them everyday, every time at multiple places in Kamra. Infact, DSG HQ and barracks are just 500 meters from my home.
> 
> More pictures from different angles.
> View attachment 257944
> View attachment 257945
> View attachment 257946


TTP only pics i love are like these one dead rats


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## Amaa'n

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> This ain't DSG, DSG has the same army uniform. I can confirm it because I see them everyday, every time at multiple places in Kamra. Infact, DSG HQ and barracks are just 500 meters from my home.


ahan, i go to MRF side quiet often to see my relatives, but its been few months since i went there, hence i believed may be change of Uniform ........
seeing this photo (thanks to @RescueRanger ) I believe these guys are coming directly from a training session (Police ATS) 
checkout the guys at the back

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## !eon

HariPrasad said:


> you tried but end up killing innocent Afghan children, Try next good luck.
> .


NO, we still haven't.

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## I S I

HariPrasad said:


> TTP are very shrewd guys and masters in tactical warfare. They are highly motivated with religious ideology. They are not very easy to defeat.


Yeah you better know..

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## Amaa'n

!eon said:


> NO, we still haven't.


quit feeding the troll - you don't like his posts - please put him to ignore list, but don't ruin the threads for others

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## shaheenmissile

Bajwa tweets: Were contained within a close area.Meanwhile a gp rushed to mosque,martyred 16 Namazi offering prayers.Were surrounded,13 killed,continues-9

So there have been casualties.

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## Amaa'n

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> This ain't DSG, DSG has the same army uniform. I can confirm it because I see them everyday, every time at multiple places in Kamra. Infact, DSG HQ and barracks are just 500 meters from my home.
> 
> More pictures from different angles.
> View attachment 257944
> View attachment 257945
> View attachment 257946


i wonder if Hurs are going to accept them in this condition??? with all due respect for a human dead body (as all are creation of ALLAH) but even a dog will walk past and not stop to pee over this filth


----------



## HariPrasad

Imran Khan said:


> its hard but not imposible and i know our forces are capable to do . but until they never start covert operations in afghanistan they can not defeat these rats


 OK.


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## Imran Khan

balixd said:


> ahan, i go to MRF side quiet often to see my relatives, but its been few months since i went there, hence i believed may be change of Uniform ........
> seeing this photo (thanks to @RescueRanger ) I believe these guys are coming directly from a training session (Police ATS)
> checkout the guys at the back
> View attachment 257947


this shitty color look like afghan police uniform i hate it


----------



## Shot-Caller

They're saying 16 namazis martyred?


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## Zarvan

16 Namazi martyred who were offering Namaz at Mosque of PAF base


----------



## Hussain Farooqui

All these terror activities must be reciprocated in the terror sponsoring countries.

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## shaheenmissile

Zarvan said:


> 16 Namazi martyred who were offering Namaz at Mosque of PAF base


So it was a successful attack after all.


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## Shot-Caller

Man these dogs have no religion. Yet some people say they are religiously motivated. Now which religion motivates you to kill people who are praying.

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## Imran Khan

and how ? there are 16 casualties?


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## Leader

well done Quick Response Unit..


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

The most important thing that you would notice on these terrorists----and that is right from day one is their foot wear-----look at the high top sport wear-----.

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## Imran Khan




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## Zarvan

shaheenmissile said:


> So it was a successful attack after all.


Well yes we lost 16 people. They have done the damage it shows we have to go for hot pursuit


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## Amaa'n

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The most important thing that you would notice on these terrorists----and that is right from day one is their foot wear-----look at the high top sport wear-----.
> View attachment 257948


yes, I noticed the same, in almost all previous PAF or AirPort attacks, they had similar footwear - Service Cheetah or that Black boots ----do they have some kind of fetish with this footwear? why the heck not buy cheaper chinese knock offs? and why obsession with this particular brand


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## Dalit

Good riddance. Send them to hell these cowards.


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## Shot-Caller

Time to go for hot pursuit in Afghanistan and bomb all the left TTP scums to pieces.


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## ZooZoo

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The most important thing that you would notice on these terrorists----and that is right from day one is their foot wear-----look at the *high top sport wear*-----.
> View attachment 257948




There is no scarcity of money when one go for Jihad.. 

@Topic: I condemn this attack.


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Oh My GOD, turning point.  16 Namazis killed by the militants, ISPR reports just now. All of them must have been PAF guys, Ohh!!

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## Amaa'n

Zarvan said:


> Well yes we lost 16 people. They have done the damage it shows we have to go for hot pursuit


after hundreds of foiled terror bids, they finally managed to score one, but this will not be taken easily, as you can see Chief is already in Peshawar

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## Leader

118 Long Course & Sword of Honour Capt Asfandyar Bukhari embraced shahadat today in Peshawar. He was a G3 in102 Brigade / 11Frontier Force.

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## Zarvan

Captain Isfand Year martyred ISPR

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## Indus Falcon

balixd said:


> i wonder if Hurs are going to accept them in this condition??? with all due respect for a human dead body (as all are creation of ALLAH) but even a dog will walk past and not stop to pee over this filth


Hoor bauhat door ki baat hai, them being Muslims is questionable.

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## shaheenmissile

COAS and Air cheif both are in Peshawar. Also Nawaz shareef and chaudhry nisar on the phone with Military brass.
I can only hope they decis=de to enter Afghanistan this time. Until they don't go after Mulla Radio in Afghanistan,these attacks wont stop.


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## vsdoc

fatman17 said:


> 1. badeber is not a base but a camp.
> 2. no air assets stationed there.
> 3. it is used for training activities.
> 4. media and people shd use the right terminology.
> 5. all militants neutralized. KIA



Any idea what they were after then sir?

Aircraft (like in the Karachi attack) are high value targets.

What could they have been after here? And based on my understanding of such attacks, 13 attackers is not a small operation. 

They must have been after SOME asset ....

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## Imran Khan

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The most important thing that you would notice on these terrorists----and that is right from day one is their foot wear-----look at the high top sport wear-----.
> View attachment 257948


service cheetah joggers pakistan ke boot hain janab her terrorist or pakistan ka her police elete force jawan yehi use kerta hai

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## Indus Falcon

Shot-Caller said:


> Man these dogs have no religion. Yet some people say they are religiously motivated. Now which religion motivates you to kill people who are praying.


Not Islam

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## Dalit

Shot-Caller said:


> Man these dogs have no religion. Yet some people say they are religiously motivated. Now which religion motivates you to kill people who are praying.



Anyone who says that these people hold any religion are crazy. These people are cold-blooded murderers. Some are sent by their filthy rouge masters. Some are domestic. They only know how to attack children and unarmed people. We need to finish them. Each and everyone of them. Also their funding, training and sponsors... We need to go real hard after these b@stards. Even if that means going into Afghanistan.

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## babajees

A smart move by army to do COMPLETE blackout of news until clearance is over!!

Until 11 o clock, they didnt let it known to the outside world that terrorists killed 16 security ppl in mosque in fajar prayer



Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> And now the news have arrived from ISPR that Pakistan Air Force has made the militants retreat, even didn't let them in.
> 
> *A Big Hug For You Jawans*



not true bro...  thy went inside the mosque and killed 16+ namazis


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## PakShaheen79

So sad, we lost 16 lives in the attack but nevertheless this time response was rather quick and lethal.

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## Imran Khan

so the damage is already done bad news for us

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## MastanKhan

balixd said:


> yes, I noticed the same, in almost all previous PAF or AirPort attacks, they had similar footwear - Service Cheetah or that Black boots ----do they have some kind of fetish with this footwear? why the heck not buy cheaper chinese knock offs? and why obsession with this particular brand



Hi,

Remember that for a trooper on the move---the footwear is the most important part of his uniform and weapons----. Without proper footwear---a soldier is a nobody---.

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## Dalit

PakShaheen79 said:


> So sad, we lost 16 lives in the attack but nevertheless this time response was rather quick and lethal.



They better be. After so many attacks we should be as vigilant as we can. We need to be alert 24/7 356 days in a year. We're being attacked by cowards who use sanctuaries to their benefit. They don't announce their attacks. No time for negligence or failures. Go after these barbaric animals. Capture them if you can. Interrogate them using our desi special methods and get as much info and intel as you can to strike back. If not, destroy them there and then.


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## MastanKhan

@Color_Less_Sky 

What do you think now----would you rather have that guy sitting outside of your mosque with his weapon---sitting outside this mosque as well----could have made a difference----.

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## Imran Khan

terror is rising again ad we need to tackle it or else it will rise like before

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## I S I

Did those namazis martyred in a friendly fire by security forces or just a terrorist atack?


SrNair said:


> @Horus @waz Graphic pictures
> 
> 
> 
> Dude delete these picture .


So black day in India tomorrow?


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## gau8av

total 16 includes the 2 security forces ? very sad, may the innocent RIP 

surprising to see that the taliban are still capable of launching a big operation like this, it's scary because they could have gone solely for a soft target again, around military installations there was always going to be some resistance and a quick response was ensured.


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## [Bregs]

Areesh said:


> Ghatiya performance by our security and intelligence forces. They managed to kill 16 of ours. It doesn't matter that we responded very quickly or not. They managed to get to their place of attack unchecked and they achieved what they wanted. Lakh lanat on our security and intelligence apparatus.



Terrorists always have element of surprise and choice of place of attack with them. despite this they have been eliminated in fairly quick time otherwise causalities might have been much more

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## Roybot

Good riddance.

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## Imran Khan

gau8av said:


> total 16 includes the 2 security forces ? very sad, may the innocent RIP
> 
> surprising to see that the taliban are still capable of launching a big operation like this, it's scary because they could have gone solely for a soft target again, around military installations there was always going to be some resistance and a quick response was ensured.


until pakistan have madrasas - illiterate population - hunger of paradise - and mullahs they have no shortage of anything

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## saiyan0321

INNA LILLAHI WA INNA ILAHI RAJIOUN. 

very sad incident and my heart bleeds for those killed in this attack especially those that were killed during namaz. Not even the most hateful of enemies attack their enemies while praying. I wouldn't call then dogs. Dogs are loyal ethical creatures. Pigs are also better than them. They are undescribable scum shits that deserve the worst death possible. 

We lost a few men today but kudos to the force for a quick response and elimination of these filthy creatures. 8 sent to the deepest pits of hell. May they rot there. 

MAY ALLAH GRANT THOSE MARTYRS WHO DIED A PLACE IN HEAVEN. 

We must be even more vigilant with our anti terror policies.

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## Areesh

Poor performance like always. Looks like our security forces and establishment are impotent to this threat. Simple as that. Getting killed is not an achievement. Killing your opponent with none of your own casualty is the real achievement.

DG ISPR can keep tweeting bullsh!t while those mofos keep attacking places of their choice with ease.


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## I S I

Areesh said:


> Ghatiya performance by our security and intelligence forces. They managed to kill 16 of ours. It doesn't matter that we responded very quickly or not. They managed to get to their place of attack unchecked and they achieved what they wanted. Lakh lanat on our security and intelligence apparatus.


Man i was so happy just a few minutes ago knowing about no casualties & then this breaking news. 
It seems ISPR was hiding the damage on our side.


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## Counterpunch

I have heard there was a helicopter malfunction right at the point where they came to evac some casualties. The backup heli had to come and air lift then..I am sure there was no terrorist act involved in heli incident since they didn't manage to go that far inside the camp where they have the helipad

anyone can confirm?


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## Areesh

I S I said:


> Man i was so happy just a few minutes ago knowing about no casualties & then this breaking news.
> It seems ISPR was hiding the damage on our side.



till we properly mine and fenced the border with that kanjar khana called as Afghanistan this sh!t would continue to happen.

Our security forces would continue to make us chutya with there tweets.

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## Burhan Wani

I S I said:


> Man i was so happy just a few minutes ago knowing about no casualties & then this breaking news.
> It seems ISPR was hiding the damage on our side.


MR ISI where is your progress.?
Report to my office immediately.

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## Areesh

[Bregs] said:


> Terrorists always have element of surprise and choice of place of attack with them. despite this they have been eliminated in fairly quick time otherwise causalities might have been much more



Terrorists everywhere have element of surprise. Nobody writes a letter before attacking you. It is us who should be ready to eliminate the filth even before it moves to do something. 

They killed 16. Objective achieved. Our security forces can keep patting themselves on their back that they killed 13 rats who came to be killed anyways.

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## Windjammer

Even while he was injured, Captain Asfandyar sent four scum bags to hell before achieving martyrdom.
Thank you warrior may you rest in peace.

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## Imran Khan

Areesh said:


> till we properly mine and fenced the border with that kanjar khana called as Afghanistan this sh!t would continue to happen.
> 
> Our security forces would continue to make us chutya with there tweets.


closing afghan border can solve 60% of pakistani problems. what you expect when 50-60K daily crossed this border like its not border

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## gau8av

Imran Khan said:


> until pakistan have madrasas - illiterate population - hunger of paradise - and mullahs they have no shortage of anything


agree, zarb-e-azb will not help even if their hideouts in the mountains and caves are destroyed by the military as long as the root causes are not addressed and terrorist sympathizers within the local population remain.


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## Imran Khan

gau8av said:


> agree, zarb-e-azb will not help even if their hideouts in the mountains and caves are destroyed by the military as long as the root causes are not addressed and terrorist sympathizers within the local population remain.


the root case is this where fire comming

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## kasper95

Rip to the dead soldier's


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## Counterpunch

Most of the casualties have occurred in the domestic area side..the one that is across the road from the main badaber camp officers area. The mosque that was attacked was in the same domestic area while the terrorists couldn't manage to enter the mosque of the officers area.

Rest in peace to the martyred and rot in hell terrorists scumbags! they came in big numbers meaning they planned another APS. Good job Capt. Afsandyar Shaheed and co.! We owe to you big time for sacrificing your life

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## volcano

RIP soldiers..


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## Last Samuri

WhyWhy are your own people own face and religion destroying and attacking your own bases.

What is their agenda and goal


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## nwmalik

ito said:


> Taliban is group raised by Pak ISI for Afghan war, why blame India?



Taliban were raised by the world against USSR presence in Afghanistan.
They were raised in Pakistan tribal areas because of the location only.
Taliban have always fought against the foreign presence in Afghanistan (we may or may not agree with their methods) . But TTP just use the word of Taliban and have no parallel with the real Taliban.


----------



## VelocuR

*Army captain among 17 killed in TTP-claimed attack on PAF camp in Peshawar*







AGENCIES | ALI AKBAR — UPDATED 13 MINUTES AGO

*PESHAWAR: At least 30 people, including 13 terrorists, were killed as the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) camp at Inqalab road in Peshawar's Badaber came under attack by Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) militants early Friday.*

Thirteen terrorists were killed by security forces, Director-General (DG) Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major-General Asim Bajwa said on Twitter.

Sixteen people offering prayers at a mosque inside the airforce camp were killed by a group of militants, Bajwa said.

Terrorists entered the camp at two points, splitting into sub-groups, Bajwa claimed. The encounter began immediately due to the quick response from security forces, he said.

The DG ISPR said 10 soldiers were injured during an exchange of fire with terrorists — two of whom are officers.

*Rescue sources, however, said 22 people have been injured, out of whom 20 have been shifted to CMH Peshawar and two have been taken to Lady Reading Hospital (LRH). An emergency has been declared in both hospitals. Dr Subhani at LRH said one unidentified body had been brought to the hospital.*

TTP spokesperson Muhammad Khurasani claimed responsibility for the attack in an e-mail sent to journalists.

A search operation for hidden terrorists is underway, Bajwa said. Corps Commander Lieutenant General Hidayatur Rehman conducted aerial surveillance of the base from a helicopter.
*
Around 15 people were arrested during the search operation, police said.*

*The attack was carried out by a group of seven to 10 terrorists, the DG ISPR said earlier, while eyewitnesses claimed they saw around six to seven terrorists dressed in black militia uniforms wearing white shoes.*

*A military official at the base said, "All the terrorists were wearing explosives-laden jackets and were armed with hand-propelled grenades, mortars, AK-47 rifles."*

Nearby residents said explosions and gunfire could still be heard more than three hours after the attack took place.

When the attack occurred, a heavy contingent of the QRF reached the spot. An exchange of fire between the militants and security forces took place. Khyber Pakhtunkhwa police have cordoned off the area.

The DG ISPR said terrorists had attacked the guard room at the camp early in the morning. The QRF reached the scene and surrounded the attackers, isolating them.

The terrorists had been engaged and confined to a small area around the guard room area of the camp.

Chief of Army Staff General Raheel Sharif has reached Peshawar. He will visit the Corps Headquarters and will meet with troops participating in the clearance operation. He is also expected to visit the wounded at CMH.

Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman is also on his way to Peshawar. Aman briefed the prime minister about the ongoing operation in Badaber over the telephone.

*PM condemns attack*
Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif strongly condemned the attack on the Badaber airforce camp.

Nawaz reiterated the nation's resolve to continue its mission of eliminating terrorism with zeal.

The premier said he is being kept updated on the ongoing operation against terrorists. He said the armed forces of the county have the full support of the entire nation, and that networks of terrorists would soon be eliminated from Pakistan.

*Nisar meets PM*
Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar called on the premier at PM House. Nisar apprised the PM about the role of civil law enforcement agencies in the terrorist attack at Badaber airforce camp.

Matters relating to the law and order situation in country were also discussed during the meeting.

*KP Speaker visits LRH*
Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Assembly Speaker and Acting Governor Asad Qaisar also visited LRH to inquire about the health of those injured in the attack.

Army captain among 17 killed in TTP-claimed attack on PAF camp in Peshawar - Pakistan - DAWN.COM


----------



## Shot-Caller

Windjammer said:


> Even while he was injured, Captain Asfandyar sent four scum bags to hell before achieving martyrdom.
> Thank you warrior may you rest in peace.


Respect.


----------



## Dalit

Areesh said:


> Poor performance like always. Looks like our security forces and establishment are impotent to this threat. Simple as that. Getting killed is not an achievement. Killing your opponent with none of your own casualty is the real achievement.
> 
> DG ISPR can keep tweeting bullsh!t while those mofos keep attacking places of their choice with ease.



I hate to say this, but the amount of casualties in this instance is just too high. We should by now know that this coward enemy only attacks when someone is looking the other way. It plans its attacks very deceivingly and precisely. They have done it time and time again. It's high time that the armed forces start implementing proper security measures. We know that they like to attack high value army bases. This is no surprise any more... The amount of casualties is just unacceptable.


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## Windjammer

*AsimBajwaISPR*‏@AsimBajwaISPR
Update:terrorists came in constabulary uniform.3 heli participate in clearance/cas evac.A heli made emergency landing due tech fault,safe-11

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## [Bregs]

Areesh said:


> Terrorists everywhere have element of surprise. Nobody writes a letter before attacking you. It is us who should be ready to eliminate the filth even before it moves to do something.
> 
> They killed 16. Objective achieved. Our security forces can keep patting themselves on their back that they killed 13 rats who came to be killed anyways.



well to achieve total domination over terrorists attacks then the counter intelligence factor is very crucial which needs to be addressed as importantly as operation zarbe azab. then you can neutralize them on information based on intelligence gathered. Local population/hardliner madrasas all needs to be infiltrated to gather counter intelligence before hand to prevent such attacks

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## nwmalik

million dollar question.
Find the funders and the financiers. Only then we will know the answer.

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## gau8av

Imran Khan said:


> the root case is this where fire comming


but are the attacks coming from TTP hiding in Afghanistan, not the Afghan taliban, right ?

Pakistan are also pushing for a peace dialogue between the Afghan taliban and government, they could use Afghan talibs to go after TTP in Afghanistan if cross border ops are not possible.

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## Maarkhoor

TTP is just a mole of RAW now terrorist don't have info or intention to put their selves into big trouble all the bases terrorists attack have links with RAW who knows where assets are and want to harm.

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## I S I

Areesh said:


> till we properly mine and fenced the border with that kanjar khana called as Afghanistan this sh!t would continue to happen.
> 
> Our security forces would continue to make us chutya with there tweets.


What was the point in hiding civilian casualties & celebrating their achievements?


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Junior Technician Tariq Abbas Shaheed. Just received this photo of him from his close friend who is an uncle of mine.

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## HariPrasad

This is sad, some time ago there was a news that only terrorist are killed. Now we are getting the news that civilians are also killed.


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## Areesh

Dalit said:


> I hate to say this, but the amount of casualties in this instance is just too high. We should by now know that this coward enemy only attacks when someone is looking the other way. It plans its attacks very deceivingly and precisely. They have done it time and time again. It's high time that the armed forces start implementing proper security measures. We know that they like to attack high value army bases. This is no surprise any more... The amount of casualties is just unacceptable.



Less dramai bazian by our security forces and more practical steps can avoid such attacks. Even now we are congratulating each other while they succeeded in massacring 17 of our people.


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## Imran Khan

gau8av said:


> but are the attacks coming from TTP hiding in Afghanistan, not the Afghan taliban, right ?
> 
> Pakistan are also pushing for a peace dialogue between the Afghan taliban and government, they could use Afghan talibs to go after TTP in Afghanistan if cross border ops are not possible.


bhai mery USA nad afghans themselves want to talk becasue they failed to control taliban


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## Maarkhoor

gau8av said:


> and terrorist sympathizers


and terrorist sympathizers across the border


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## VelocuR

*US drone strike kills six in SWA*






ALI AKBAR — PUBLISHED 40 MINUTES AGO

ISLAMABAD: At least six suspected terrorists were killed in a United States (US) drone strike in South Waziristan Agency (SWA) on Friday.

Sources said, two missiles were fired from the Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) killing at least six suspected militants and destroying their hideout in Sarokai tehsil of the agency.

Thise killed in the strike were yet to be identified.

South Waziristan is among Pakistan’s seven tribal districts near the Afghan border which are rife with homegrown insurgents and are alleged to be strongholds of Taliban and Al Qaeda operatives, among others.

US drone strike kills six in South Waziristan Agency - Pakistan - DAWN.COM


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## DV RULES

Areesh said:


> Poor performance like always. Looks like our security forces and establishment are impotent to this threat. Simple as that. Getting killed is not an achievement. Killing your opponent with none of your own casualty is the real achievement.
> 
> DG ISPR can keep tweeting bullsh!t while those mofos keep attacking places of their choice with ease.



Dude........It might be failure of intelligence & Camp Office security wing.
They ever will make targets unknown and unfamiliar. 

Remember that *we are in state of war.*
*& Second........That's not Cricket match.*
Hold your wish list.

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## I S I

engineer saad said:


> MR ISI where is your progress.?
> Report to my office immediately.


Changing my name. Fed up with this bullshit.


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## Winchester

This camp just had residential quarters for the airforce....unfortunately it looks like the 16 killed in the mosque belong to the airforce.


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## Dalit

Windjammer said:


> *AsimBajwaISPR*‏@AsimBajwaISPR
> Update:terrorists came in constabulary uniform.3 heli participate in clearance/cas evac.A heli made emergency landing due tech fault,safe-11



These filthy animals are going to be using every dirty tactic in and outside the book. We ought to know that. I really hope we learn after this bitter experience.

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## Areesh

I S I said:


> What was the point in hiding civilian casualties & celebrating their achievements?



Don't know. But this nation should celebrating shaheed. We need to celebrate ghazis who can fu*k our opponents hard and without any mercy.

No more shaheed please. More ghazis.

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## I S I

Update: 2 Pakistani Airforce technicians Shaan & Taariq also martyred.


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## HariPrasad

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Junior Technician Tariq Abbas Shaheed. Just received this photo of him from his close friend who is an uncle of mine.
> 
> View attachment 257959



What heppanned to him?


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## Windjammer

*RESPECT.*

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## shaheenmissile

The terrorists should be tracked down to which tribal area they came from and their tribe named and shamed.

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## gau8av

Imran Khan said:


> bhai mery USA nad afghans themselves want to talk becasue they failed to control taliban


then I guess the only solution is a giant wall and shoot at sight for anyone crossing the border and UN conventions be damned, mine the hell out of it.

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## [Bregs]

DV RULES said:


> Dude........It might be failure of intelligence & Camp Office security wing.
> They ever will make targets unknown and unfamiliar.
> 
> Remember that *we are in state of war.*
> *& Second........That's not Cricket match.*
> Hold your wish list.



This incident is an intelligence failure and on operation front the terrorists have been eliminated pretty quickly


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## muhammadali233

16 namazis embraced martyrdom while offering fajar;surely no muslim can do that

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Winchester said:


> This camp just had residential quarters for the airforce....unfortunately it looks like the 16 killed in the mosque belong to the airforce.




Without any doubts they belong to the air force as the mosque was situated inside the camp.


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## VelocuR

*BBC: Gunmen attack Pakistan air force base in Peshawar*






At least 16 people have been killed in a militant attack on a Pakistani air force base in Peshawar, officials say.

The gunmen stormed a guard post and then entered the Badaber air base and attacked a mosque at the site, Major General Asim Bajwa said.

He said security forces killed 13 militants and a hunt was on for the remaining gunmen.

The Pakistani Taliban said they ordered the attack. Peshawar has frequently been targeted by militants.

Last December more than 150 students and teachers were killed when Taliban gunmen attacked an army-run school in the city.

Gen Bajwa said a rapid response force engaged the attackers on Friday morning and contained them around a guard room.

"Clearance operations" were in progress to secure the site, he added.






A military official, who did not want to be named, told the Reuters news agency that the militants had "explosives-laden jackets and were armed with hand-propelled grenades, mortars, AK-47 rifles".

Reports say about 20 people, including 10 soldiers, were also injured in the exchange of fire.

In an email, Pakistani Taliban spokesman Muhammad Khurasani said a "suicidal unit" had carried out the attack.

Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif condemned the attack, saying: "Terrorists will be rooted out from the country."


Gunmen attack Pakistan air force base in Peshawar - BBC News

-------------------------

*CNN: Taliban militants attack mosque at air force base in Pakistan, killing 16*

Islamabad (CNN)Militants raided an air force base in northwest Pakistan, killing 16 people praying inside a mosque.

The attack on the 10-acre Badaber base outside Peshawar on Friday is the largest assault on military personnel this year. It's the highest profile assault in the area since terrorists killed 145, mostly children, during a school massacre last year.

When the militants attacked the base, security forces responded, killing 13 attackers, Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Asim Bajwa said in a series of tweets.

Bajwa had originally said about 10 militants launched the base attack. Soldiers are combing through the facility looking for any remaining attackers.

The military side suffered 10 injuries, including an Army major who was shot in the thigh, Bajwa said.

The Pakistani Taliban, known in the country as Tehrik-i-Taliban, claimed responsibility for the attack in a statement.

Badaber Air Base was built by the United States in the 1950s and was used as a listening post to intercept radio information from the Soviet Union.

Taliban militants attack air force base in Pakistan - CNN.com


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## gau8av

Windjammer said:


> *RESPECT.*


RIP brave soldier

but delete that pic please.


----------



## Counterpunch

HariPrasad said:


> This is sad, some time ago there was a news that only terrorist are killed. Now we are getting the news that civilians are also killed.


There is no point hiding the casualties. It's just that the news are coming out as and when the Security forces are clearing more and more areas. The Terrorists entered the mosque, fired indiscriminately and martyred 16+ people and injured many more. Then they went about their business in other areas until they met their fate.

You just cannot contain someone who came with the motive of maximum damage and who doesn't care about non combatant deaths

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## AnnoyingOrange

shaheenmissile said:


> The terrorists should be tracked down to which tribal area they came from and their tribe named and shamed.


Named and shamed???? really.... just kill them and everyone who supports them...choke the supply line of terrorist recruits...

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## Imran Khan

gau8av said:


> then I guess the only solution is a giant wall and shoot at sight for anyone crossing the border and UN conventions be damned, mine the hell out of it.


afghans will die in hunger they cry even if we close the door let alone fence and mining they cry rivers last time we plan and karzai was jumping like monkey


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## Amaa'n

Areesh said:


> Ghatiya performance by our security and intelligence forces. They managed to kill 16 of ours. It doesn't matter that we responded very quickly or not. They managed to get to their place of attack unchecked and they achieved what they wanted. Lakh lanat on our security and intelligence apparatus.


easy for you to sit on a forum and tweet/ comment, try to stand outside in hot weather on surveillance duty and see for yourself & then tell me if it is Ghatiya Performance or Hard work ----
Do remind me how many raids have been conducted and how many terror bids have been foiled, but i guess that is not enough ---- though this lapse cannot be justified as aim should be ' Zero' but cut your establishment a little bit of slack --- they deserve it

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## Dalit

Areesh said:


> Less dramai bazian by our security forces and more practical steps can avoid such attacks. Even now we are congratulating each other while they succeeded in massacring 17 of our people.



The way the forces handled the attack deserves full praise. They reacted rapidly and ferociously. The drama didn't drag on for hours as we have seen before. That's certainly commendable.

It's easy to point fingers. It's always difficult to be prepared for such a surprise cowardly attack. It should serve as a learning moment though. We need to improve the security after this experience to limit the amount of casualties.

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## VelocuR




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## gau8av

Imran Khan said:


> afghans will die in hunger they cry even if we close the door let alone fence and mining they cry rivers last time we plan and karzai was jumping like monkey


then what's the solution ?

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## Danish saleem

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Just got the news regarding a militant lead attack on a small air force base situated in Badaber.
> 
> *Any Details?
> 
> Updated 1:
> 
> View attachment 257879
> View attachment 257879
> View attachment 257881
> 
> 
> *
> *Update 2:*
> 
> *Pictures of neutralized militants!!*
> 
> View attachment 257923
> View attachment 257924
> View attachment 257925
> View attachment 257926
> 
> 
> 
> *Update 3:  13 militants sent to Hell so far.*
> 
> *
> View attachment 257940
> *



What motivation they have?
and they think they are spreading Islam in World, and getting Paradise as soon they die, and got 1000 Hoor's Immediately.

May Allah help us in finding its Path.

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Danish saleem said:


> What motivation they have?
> and they think they are spreading Islam in World, and getting Paradise as soon they die, and got 1000 Hoor's Immediately.
> 
> May Allah help us in finding its Path.




Ameen.


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## I S I

Too many casualties.


RIP to innocents.

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## Maarkhoor

gau8av said:


> then what's the solution ?


fence Afghanistan border and kick hard on RAW's back side

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## Imran Khan

gau8av said:


> then what's the solution ?


pakistan must react and close it and push afghans out . or else keep bleeding


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## VelocuR



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## Dalit

Danish saleem said:


> What motivation they have?
> and they think they are spreading Islam in World, and getting Paradise as soon they die, and got 1000 Hoor's Immediately.
> 
> May Allah help us in finding its Path.



We know who these people are. Let me be very blunt here. These Salafi b@stards have no faith. They are cold-blooded murderers. *No more funding from oil rich Arabs for the Salafi brand of hate inside Pakistan.* We know what the problem is and we need to address it from its root cause. Arab funding for Salafism has destroyed Pakistan. At the same time, kick every illegal and criminal Afghan out of Pakistan. Once you address both these issues we'll be chocking the oxygen for attacks inside our nation.

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## I S I

VelocuR said:


>


Can i ask what was that for? :/


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## Winchester

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Without any doubts they belong to the air force as the mosque was situated inside the camp.


 
This is a big loss then and an intelligence failure.


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## Xenophon

Rip


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## PakShaheen79

Everyone is saying that terrorists were in military uniform that's why no one stopped them. Question is why no one noticed their shows? Since when Military or paramilitary started to use these shows?


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Winchester said:


> This is a big loss then and an intelligence failure.




Intelligence had already identified the target about 2 years ago.


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## Inception-06

Salute to our Forces !

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## PakShaheen79

The entire protocol of forces movements around the air bases and other sensitive installations needs to be upgraded.

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## Windjammer

Captain Afandyar, receiving Sword of Honour from the former COAS.

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## gau8av

Abu Namr said:


> fence Afghanistan border and kick hard on RAW's back side


oh right, it's all RAW  but I'll indulge you anyway. 

even if it is RAW causing all this trouble in Pakistan, you must address the root cause, which is religious extremism and a big chunk of madrassa 'educated' youth who are ready for jihad, these fools are so easy to exploit, your moulvis mould them perfectly for anyone to manipulate them into carrying out their tasks. 

solution ? .. no madrassa educated fools, no cannon fodder for RAW to exploit. The worst of the terror madrassas are Saudi funded, do something about those funds too.

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## F.O.X

Today was our loss, no matter how many victories we have achiever over the past year one loss can make all that very bitter. No matter this just shows that we still haven't gone hard enough ... their supporters still lurk among our shadows .. we need to eliminate them first ... all the Madarassas & Masjids that have helped raise , Train or facilitated these bas*ards need to be demolished just like Masjid Zarar . 

Today lets pray for those innocents who have lost their lives .. and ask for their forgiveness .

May Allah grant them Jannat & Forgiveness.

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## Kompromat

Ajit Doval must be smirking.

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## I S I

PakShaheen79 said:


> Everyone is saying that terrorists were in military uniform that's why no one stopped them. Question is why no one noticed their shows? Since when Military or paramilitary started to use these shows?


Also who the F uses suzuki pessenger van. This event could be avoided.


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## VelocuR

I S I said:


> Can i ask what was that for? :/



It is just expression that Pakistan Army is ready to destroy them. Can't you understand it?


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## Amaa'n

PakShaheen79 said:


> Everyone is saying that terrorists were in military uniform that's why no one stopped them. Question is why no one noticed their shows? Since when Military or paramilitary started to use these shows?


somehow i have my doubts over this statement, Uniform or no Uniform, when you are entering the base you are stopped and ID card is checked, so who ever is saying just because these dudes had military uniform, nobody stopped them is a lying ....

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## vsdoc

Horus said:


> Ajit Doval must be smirking.



Honestly, unless there was a high value asset involved, I do not think we would be wasting our time killing people.

Killing people is easy. For both sides.

RIP to the soldiers.

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## Inception-06

QRF and Paramilitary Forces in search Operation :

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## farhan_9909

Horus said:


> Ajit Doval must be smirking.



He had it planned much more bloody but thanks to our security forces.

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## Winchester

How about for every single person killed in a terrorist attack we close down a madressah. 

That way these guys would get the message and stop churning out these nutjobs !

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## SRP

Horus said:


> Ajit Doval must be smirking.



Unnecessarily dragging India, expected.

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## PakShaheen79

The entire protocol of forces movements around the air bases and other sensitive installations needs to be upgraded.


balixd said:


> somehow i have my doubts over this statement, Uniform or no Uniform, when you are entering the base you are stopped and ID card is checked, so who ever is saying just because these dudes had military uniform, nobody stopped them is a lying ....


The point is not checking at the gate of the base. The point is checking on countless checkposts on the roads. After all these terrorists cannot just appear on the gate of the base out of thin air.

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## Econofpak

Close Afghanistan and Indian borders. No trade or flow of anything. Or slow the flow so that trucks would take forever.

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## Inception-06

Strong answer from all Pakistani Force to the attackers !


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## Dalit

gau8av said:


> oh right, it's all RAW  but I'll indulge you anyway.
> 
> even if it is RAW causing all this trouble in Pakistan, you must address the root cause, which is religious extremism and a big chunk of madrassa 'educated' youth who are ready for jihad, these fools are so easy to exploit, your moulvis mould them perfectly for anyone to manipulate them into carrying out their tasks.
> 
> solution ? .. no madrassa educated fools, no cannon fodder for RAW to exploit. The worst of the terror madrassas are Saudi funded, do something about those funds too.



We all know that RAW is exploiting the situation to their advantage. Only a fool would think otherwise. That makes the RAW really no different to extremists who are attacking our armed forces. RAW is without a doubt sponsoring terrorism inside Pakistan. All this double talk about peace and stability from the Indian side amounts to nothing...


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## DV RULES

Imran Khan said:


> pakistan must react and *close it and push afghans out* . or else keep bleeding



That's not possible


----------



## DV RULES

PakShaheen79 said:


> The entire protocol of forces movements around the air bases and other sensitive installations needs to be upgraded.



Yes, right time to think about it. What a ceremonial phrase.


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## Inception-06

All Pakistani Forces full mobilized to hunt the enemy !

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## DV RULES

Horus said:


> Ajit Doval must be smirking.



Of Course he used to be sit in Lahore 7 years under-covered and couldn't be exposed......as per his claim.


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## I S I

VelocuR said:


> It is just expression that Pakistan Army is ready to destroy them. Can't you understand it?


Do you understand we got 2-3x more casualties than talibitches?


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## HariPrasad

PakShaheen79 said:


> Everyone is saying that terrorists were in military uniform that's why no one stopped them. Question is why no one noticed their shows? Since when Military or paramilitary started to use these shows?



The photographs of dead terrorist does not show any military uniform.

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## SRP

Econofpak said:


> Close Afghanistan and* Indian borders*. No trade or flow of anything. Or slow the flow so that trucks would take forever.



Border with India already closed. India created fences at her own expenses.

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## Imran Khan

DV RULES said:


> That's not possible


then whats going on is only possible we should make one factory for coffins only

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## Counterpunch

Speaking of forces movement protocol; I am not sure how and why they stand in clusters right after the incident has happened. There could be a road side mine or an IED, there could be a hiding terrorist nearby or there could be terrorists in the guise of ambulance staff waiting just for the right opportunity or there could be a group wearing military uniform and riding a similar double cab. There must be a protocol to address this.

Something must be done before something happens and then we are left designing reactive measures

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## PakShaheen79

.


DV RULES said:


> Yes, right time to think about it. What a ceremonial phrase.


Not learning a lesson from such incident invites the next calamity.

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## DV RULES

balixd said:


> somehow i have my doubts over this statement, Uniform or no Uniform, when you are entering the base you are stopped and ID card is checked, so who ever is saying just because these dudes had military uniform, nobody stopped them is a lying ....



Do you remember if someone can intrude into PAF base with uniform like shown in the picture of dead terrorists and in shown getup! I might be mistaken but i don't think so.

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## Dalit

Imran Khan said:


> then whats going on is only possible we should make one factory for coffins only



The Afghans are going out. No doubt about it. many attacks have involved Afghan perpetrators. We cannot take that risk any more.


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## Windjammer

Most of these bastards were wasted in the car park, but one managed to enter inside a Mosque.


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## gau8av

Dalit said:


> We all know that RAW is exploiting the situation to their advantage. Only a fool would think otherwise. That makes the RAW really no different to extremists who are attacking our armed forces. RAW is without a doubt sponsoring terrorism inside Pakistan.


these TTP terrorists are not mumbaikars, goans or dilli wallas. 

Pak authorities should shut down their *saudi terror madrassas *and hang all the moulvis teaching that crap and radicalizing *Pakistani citizens. *

blaming others will not help when the problem is clearly within.

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## New Resolve

Considering the amount of terrorists the response was great but when are we going to learn to arm ourselves when congregating in places like mosques. If the terrorist hadnt been allowed to get in the mosque then it would have only been a few casualties. these terrorists ever take a bath.


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## PakShaheen79

.


DV RULES said:


> Yes, right time to think about it. What a ceremonial phrase.


Not learning a lesson from such incident invites the next calamity.


Counterpunch said:


> Speaking of forces movement protocol; I am not sure how and why they stand in clusters right after the incident has happened. There could be a road side mine or an IED, there could be a hiding terrorist nearby or there could be terrorists in the guise of ambulance staff waiting just for the right opportunity or there could be a group wearing military uniform and riding a similar double cab. There must be a protocol to address this.
> 
> Something must be done before something happens and then we are left designing reactive measures



Very aptly said. Yes, this is casual approach has been the real problem. It is amazing that terrorists were able to attack the Mehran base twice. I think no where in the world that is possible in this age and time.

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## Counterpunch

DV RULES said:


> Do you remember if someone can intrude into PAF base with uniform like shown in the picture of dead terrorists and in shown getup! I might be mistaken but i don't think so.


No Way!
The only reason why they wore such uniforms would (could) be to get away from the police pickets enroute badaber camp. Remember they came from Sorezai area that has only police formations protecting it

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## Devil Soul

View image on Twitter





https://twitter.com/download


AsimBajwaISPR @AsimBajwaISPR
Update:Capt Asfandyar embraced shahadat while fighting valiantly and leading his troops from the front-10

9:43 AM - 18 Sep 2015

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## VelocuR

I S I said:


> Do you understand we got 2-3x more casualties than talibitches?



Talibans are already dead. Our injured soldiers and some will recovered soon, Insh'Allah, our pray with them. 

Pakistan just be ready like huge IronMan, that's all.

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## coffee_cup

Indian terrorist proxies doing it again!

I don't know when will these Indians ever learn and let the neighbors live in peace!

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## Windjammer

Operation over, the camp has been cleared of terrorists.

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## Devil Soul

Fuc king Rats...killed like Rats...

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## Dalit

gau8av said:


> these TTP terrorists are not mumbaikars, goans or dilli wallas.
> 
> Pak authorities should shut down their *saudi terror madrassas *and hang all the moulvis teaching that crap and radicalizing *Pakistani citizens. *
> 
> blaming others will not help when the problem is clearly within.



*You just admitted yourself that RAW is exploiting the situation in Pakistan.* There is nothing left to quarrel about here. To us Pakistanis, obviously anyone helping out the enemy is also our enemy. *RAW is also an enemy of Pakistan sponsoring terrorism.*


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## Imran Khan

what a sad day damn

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## Econofpak

Seal the borders - Afghan & Indian. We can't let their supply lines open and expect them to pacify. How many attacks when NATO supplies were cut in Nov 2011? TTP is an Indian proxy, which itself is a NATO proxy. People forget that:
Afghanistan thikana hai
Pakistan nishana hai

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## Counterpunch

Windjammer said:


> Most of these bastards were wasted in the car park, but one managed to enter inside a Mosque.


The 3 who made their way towards the MT (as seen above) were taken care of right here though after causing considerable damage to the vehicles parked.

The one(s) who managed to enter the mosque went altogether different side. The mosque that is inside the Officers area (and so is the MT) was not touched. To the West of this pic is the fateful mosque (inside the Airmen/Domestic area) that was attacked by another group of scumbags

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## Neutron

Leader said:


> 118 Long Course & Sword of Honour Capt Asfandyar Bukhari embraced shahadat today in Peshawar. He was a G3 in102 Brigade / 11Frontier Force.




He was very motivated soldier. Very energetic , bold and intelligent.

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## Pulsar

Army captain among 33 killed in TTP-claimed attack on PAF camp in Peshawar - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Latest according to Dawn, 33 people, including 13 terrorists, were killed as the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) camp at Inqalab road in Peshawar's Badaber came under attack by Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) militants early Friday.

Two junior PAF technicians were killed in the attack, a PAF spokesperson said, adding that both airmen were deployed at the guardroom when the attack occurred.

Terrorists entered the camp at two points, splitting into sub-groups, Bajwa claimed. The encounter began immediately due to the quick response from security forces, he said. The attackers were wearing constabulary uniforms.

The DG ISPR said 10 soldiers were injured during an exchange of fire with terrorists — two of whom are officers.

Rescue sources, however, said 22 people have been injured, out of whom 20 have been shifted to CMH Peshawar and two have been taken to Lady Reading Hospital (LRH). An emergency has been declared in both hospitals. Dr Subhani at LRH said one unidentified body had been brought to the hospital.

TTP spokesperson Muhammad Khurasani claimed responsibility for the attack in an e-mail sent to journalists.

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## mpk1988

Regrettable loss of Human Lives. Death to the terrorists!!!


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## Imran Khan

COAS and CAS at the Corps Headquarters Peshwar.

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## VelocuR

What the heck "white shoes"? anything special about communication in white shoes? Looks like previous attack has also white shoes.


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## Jazzbot

Sad loss of lives, RIP.

However the response of our men was brutal, timely and well organized this time. We need to improve this further along with intelligence and security personnel's movement protocol to avoid such things to happen in future.

Can't imagine how a group of 7 - 13 heavily armed men can roam that easily in a big city and reach such critical installations. We seriously need to look at these things.

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## Amaa'n

according to TTP 13 Fidayeens from #TSG were alive till 11:00 - last contact was made then --- though we managed to contain them, but took a bit of time to kill each rat -- no?? but then again one wonders which hole these rats may be rotting inside a Camp

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## Devil Soul



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## vsdoc

Dalit said:


> *You just admitted yourself that RAW is exploiting the situation in Pakistan.* There is nothing left to quarrel about here. To us Pakistanis, obviously anyone helping out the enemy is also our enemy. *RAW is also an enemy of Pakistan sponsoring terrorism.*



The RAW is not your friend, that's for sure.

Wasn't set up to be your friend either.

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## Amaa'n

VelocuR said:


> What the heck "white shoes"? anything special about communication in white shoes? Looks like previous attack has also white shoes.


idk, i asked the same question, Chinese ones can be bought as cheap as Rs 600, you can pick up Magnum Dms (used) in 1500rs , why the **** go for Cheetah that retails at 2300rs

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## Neutron

Leader said:


> 118 Long Course & Sword of Honour Capt Asfandyar Bukhari embraced shahadat today in Peshawar. He was a G3 in102 Brigade / 11Frontier Force.




He was very motivated soldier. Very energetic , bold and intelligent.

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## ganesh623

Is the operation over now ?


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## Dalit

vsdoc said:


> The RAW is not your friend, that's for sure.
> 
> Wasn't set up to be your friend either.



We know that. They are created to sponsor terror inside Pakistan.


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## SrNair

I S I said:


> Did those namazis martyred in a friendly fire by security forces or just a terrorist atack?
> So black day in India tomorrow?


This is not a troll thread


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## Windjammer

Some reports saying that they attacked at 5.00am , while most people at the camp were still sleeping.
But the guards on duty were present who kept the terrorists engaged until the reinforcements arrived.

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## Dalit

Econofpak said:


> Seal the borders - Afghan & Indian. We can't let their supply lines open and expect them to pacify. How many attacks when NATO supplies were cut in Nov 2011? TTP is an Indian proxy, which itself is a NATO proxy. People forget that:
> Afghanistan thikana hai
> Pakistan nishana hai



They are getting desperate day by day. They don't like the economic development going on in Pakistan. Pakistan is getting stronger and defeating these savages all over the place. Zarb-e-Azb is a huge success. A phenomenal success. They don't like it and hence resorting to such desperate cowardly attacks. We're going to win in the end. Be rest assured.

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## I S I

VelocuR said:


> Talibans are already dead. Our injured soldiers and some will recovered soon, Insh'Allah, our pray with them.
> 
> Pakistan just be ready like huge IronMan, that's all.


Also remember those 16 innocent lives lost in this clusterfu*k.

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## Peaceful Civilian

RIP. It's time to bomb afganistan border areas too inside afganistan.

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## I S I

Guys please pray for injured in today's prayer.


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## VelocuR

balixd said:


> idk, i asked the same question, Chinese ones can be bought as cheap as Rs 600, you can pick up Magnum Dms (used) in 1500rs , why the **** go for Cheetah that retails at 2300rs



Interesting, maybe you are right. I think, there is something special about white shoes that these rats can look down at feets and wink winks communications aside from civilians and society around...I guess, that's assumption.


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## Kompromat

CONFIRMED - I analyzed the TTP propaganda video. The attack was planned by Umer Mansoor, the same monster who planned and executed the APS massacre. He is being sheltered by NDS and RAW in Afghanistan. A phone call was made from Afghan carrier service to claim responsibility for this massacre.

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## saiyan0321

A very sad day indeed. It takes one incident like this to create bitterness. We must be vigilant and we cannot take all of this casually. As long as mosques like kal masjid are still around who support terror activities and pledge allegiance to terrorists then we will see such incidents keep taking shape. The intelligence forces can't stop them all thus we mist cut the roots. The Afghans mist be sent back and we must do vigilant operation against these terror breeding mosques while shutting down any goriegn funded mosques.. Its just too risky especially with Saudi Arabia also supporting sect violence.


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## coffee_cup

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> This ain't DSG, DSG has the same army uniform. I can confirm it because I see them everyday, every time at multiple places in Kamra. Infact, DSG HQ and barracks are just 500 meters from my home.
> 
> More pictures from different angles.
> View attachment 257944
> View attachment 257945
> View attachment 257946



What is this liquid thing near the body of this tali dog? Have they put some camel to pi$$ on this Indian trained dog?


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## saiyan0321

Considering how inept Afghanistan is we must solve the Afghan problem quickly. Sealing or mining the border and using drones to target Taliban hideouts in Afghanistan... We can't allow this to continue especially with Afghanistan sheltering ttp.


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## Amaa'n

Horus said:


> CONFIRMED - I analyzed the TTP propaganda video. The attack was planned by Umer Mansoor, the same monster who planned and executed the APS massacre. He is being sheltered by NDS and RAW in Afghanistan. A phone call was made from Afghan carrier service to claim responsibility for this massacre.


i have been following their posts on their website but couldn't watch the video, its blocked here with me, but you are correct, as per the title, He was the master mind behind this


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## gau8av

Dalit said:


> *You just admitted yourself that RAW is exploiting the situation in Pakistan.* There is nothing left to quarrel about here. To us Pakistanis, obviously anyone helping out the enemy is also our enemy. *RAW is also an enemy of Pakistan sponsoring terrorism.*


I didn't "admit" anything, I indulged Abu Namr when I responded to his accusation.

I'm just a civvie, how would I know about RAW etc anyway ? 

idiot

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## Amaa'n

@Horus, any idea who are the guys with blurred out faces???

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I would say , with out any potential air targets on the base , the fact the intruders went for mosque perhaps signifies they might have been hoping some high profile target was praying there. Perhaps they were expecting someone high profile.
Army did not elaborate if it was a circumstantial move to mosque or their intended target.

The response from the Pakistani units to counter them was good , however it is still some what concerning that
13 members managed to get into the base.

I think if Pakistan had armed APC/ Vehicle close to entrance points. It would have made entrance a bit more harder.
Also alarms , triggered by lasers on ground , which really should be active around (any base) , only turned off in mornings when sufficient soldiers are awake.

PS: I have always stated annexing Afghanistan is a permanent solution to problem of terrorist coming in from there into Pakistan


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## Black Mamba1

A small question.

If "success " of reduction of terrorist incidents goes to COAS, why the failure to prevent this kind of incidence will not go to him?

If he wants to get all praise for antiterrorism effort eventually being done at the cost of citizen's money (rightly spent though), why he will not be answerable to your nation for such failure ? This is not a stray attack on the road. This is a planned attack in army camp/base. Its a sad incident of intelligence failure and under preparedness from establishment's side.

Pakistanis should learn to make accountable all Govt servants (like politicians) for their failure too instead of hero worship to uniformed people unnecessarily.

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## Dalit

Horus said:


> CONFIRMED - I analyzed the TTP propaganda video. The attack was planned by Umer Mansoor, the same monster who planned and executed the APS massacre. He is being sheltered by NDS and RAW in Afghanistan. A phone call was made from Afghan carrier service to claim responsibility for this massacre.



Says it all. These dogs are very desperate. We need to destroy each one of them. Close the border with Afghanistan immediately. Keep a close watch on movement. Use every means to monitor the border area.


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## Inception-06

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I would say , with out any potential air targets on the base , the fact the intruders went for mosque perhaps signifies they might have been hoping some high profile target was praying there. Perhaps they were expecting someone high profile.
> Army did not elaborate if it was a circumstantial move to mosque or their intended target.
> 
> The response from the Pakistani units to counter them was good , however it is still some what concerning that
> 13 members managed to get into the base.
> 
> I think if Pakistan had armed APC/ Vehicle close to entrance points. It would have made entrance a bit more harder.
> Also alarms , triggered by lasers on ground , which really should be active around (any base) , only turned off in mornings when sufficient soldiers are awake.




Higher watch towers armed and manned by snipers, equipped with 12.7mm AA Gun, and search light, dog patrolls with food Soldiers, and a heavy amoured M-113, better security checks of all Persons who leave and enter the base,would be enough..... we have no funds for lasers and such stuff ! Why Army is not closing all the shops which are selling military uniforms ! ?


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## Amaa'n

Black Mamba1 said:


> A small question.
> 
> If "success " of reduction of terrorist incidents goes to COAS, why the failure to prevent this kind of incidence will not go to him?
> 
> If he wants to get all praise for antiterrorism effort eventually being done at the cost of citizen's money (rightly spent though), why he will not be answerable to your nation for such failure ? This is not a stray attack on the road. This is a planned attack in army camp/base. Its a sad incident of intelligence failure and under preparedness from establishment's side.
> 
> Pakistanis should learn to make accountable all Govt servants (like politicians) for their failure too instead of hero worship to uniformed people unnecessarily.


because unlike other countries we have respect for our Forces, they have foiled many attacks, and if one out of hundreds gets away, that requires us to stand firm and still support them rather than criticizing them ----

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## Burhan Wani

balixd said:


> idk, i asked the same question, Chinese ones can be bought as cheap as Rs 600, you can pick up Magnum Dms (used) in 1500rs , why the **** go for Cheetah that retails at 2300rs


I heard they love cheetah brand, Dove soap, davidoff fragrance,Honda 125 bike etc.


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## New Resolve

Black Mamba1 said:


> A small question.
> 
> If "success " of reduction of terrorist incidents goes to COAS, why the failure to prevent this kind of incidence will not go to him?
> 
> If he wants to get all praise for antiterrorism effort eventually being done at the cost of citizen's money (rightly spent though), why he will not be answerable to your nation for such failure ? This is not a stray attack on the road. This is a planned attack in army camp/base. Its a sad incident of intelligence failure and under preparedness from establishment's side.
> 
> Pakistanis should learn to make accountable all Govt servants (like politicians) for their failure too instead of hero worship to uniformed people unnecessarily.



Really u blame Modi and his side kicks for daily casualties in Occupied Kashmir. This COAS puts a premium on revenge i'm not worried that the terrorists or their handlers behind this will get away with it.


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## DV RULES

balixd said:


> idk, i asked the same question, Chinese ones can be bought as cheap as Rs 600, you can pick up Magnum Dms (used) in 1500rs , why the **** go for Cheetah that retails at 2300rs



Do you really think that they bought specified shoes............ That was code and God knows who recognized and facilitate them by these shoes signs. 
In Peshawar or surrounding areas, anyone from Afghanistan can come & do spy job and there is possibility of facilitator or communicator inside the Camp or outside the camp along residential area adjacent to the camp. 

There should be general Camp or Base rules not to allow any residential plans within 800 Meters of distance from the boundary of installation but there only system is developed in all installations for security.......Allah Tawakal System By-Default.

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## coffee_cup

@people talking about the performance of security and intelligence. 

Calm down people.

We are in a state of war with a very hostile neighbor hell bound to do anything written or un-written in their terror book to harm us. Security forces have done a tremendous job to stop so many terrorist attacks which were happening almost everyday around the country and on a massive scale.

Now these desperate p!gs of the master p!g Ajit Devil and co will continue trying to do something and once in a blue moon they might succeed.

But the important point is that we are containing their capabilities. It will take few years before we could neutralize them to a very high degree. Even the most advanced countries are not immune to terrorist strikes and especially if the terrorists are being fully trained, armed and financed by an enemy state like India.

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## New Resolve

We really need to start hitting the terrorist camps across the border, while were at it cancel afghan transit trade as well, why are we helping our enemies.

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## DV RULES

Windjammer said:


> Some reports saying that they attacked at 5.00am , while most people at the camp were still sleeping.
> But the guards on duty were present who kept the terrorists engaged until the reinforcements arrived.



Sleeping is not the excuse.........That was PAF Installation and operational (If i am not wrong) and there supposed to be security system to handle any mishap any time and any situation since that was not first attack in the PAF history. Someone should find the answer of logical questions.

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## Assange

coffee_cup said:


> @people talking about the performance of security and intelligence.
> 
> Calm down people.
> 
> We are in a state of war with a very hostile neighbor hell bound to do anything written or un-written in their terror book to harm us. Security forces have done a tremendous job to stop so many terrorist attacks which were happening almost everyday around the country and on a massive scale.
> 
> Now these desperate p!gs of the master p!g Ajit Devil and co will continue trying to do something and once in a blue moon they might succeed.
> 
> But the important point is that we are containing their capabilities. It will take few years before we could neutralize them to a very high degree. Even the most advanced countries are not immune to terrorist strikes and especially if the terrorists are being fully trained, armed and financed by an enemy state like India.



Boss isn't TTP claim responsibility for this attack....But you are blaming India for it....I think we have to wait for a official investigation so that you can point your fingers at India....

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## Windjammer

Horus said:


> CONFIRMED - I analyzed the TTP propaganda video. The attack was planned by Umer Mansoor, the same monster who planned and executed the APS massacre. He is being sheltered by NDS and RAW in Afghanistan. A phone call was made from Afghan carrier service to claim responsibility for this massacre.



The Talibdogs wanted to create same bloodshed as in APS, another soft target for maximum casualties.
Although we lost 18 precious lives but alert force prevented a similar tragedy.
Now it's our turn..... no questions asked......no prisoners taken.

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## Dalit

New Resolve said:


> We really need to start hitting the terrorist camps across the border, while were at it cancel afghan transit trade as well, why are we helping our enemies.



Afghanistan is part of problem. No doubt about it. Something will have to be done about it.


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## Windjammer

DV RULES said:


> Sleeping is not the excuse.........*That was PAF Installation and operational* (If i am not wrong) and there supposed to be security system to handle any mishap any time and any situation since that was not first attack in the PAF history. Someone should find the answer of logical questions.



Currently, the base is housed by the Pakistan Air Force and is known as *PAF Camp Badaber*.

Coordinates:




33.957884°N 71.573653°E

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## Burhan Wani

Rauf Lala said:


> I heard the same thing. They had condoms too.


@Bratva @waz @WAJsal @balixd Take care of him.
@Shamain Yeh phir zinda ho giya

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## Azog

Failure of highest proportion , very sad news


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## Dubious

engineer saad said:


> @Bratva @waz @WAJsal @balixd Take care of him.
> @Shamain Yeh phir zinda ho giya


 Janaab mention some mods tts can only give him negative ratings which idiot would think of as a medal

@Manticore @WebMaster @Horus @Jungibaaz @Jango @T-Faz @blain2 @Oscar @Slav Defence @Icarus @Adios Amigo @Emmie

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## Bilal saqib

Zarvan said:


> 6 dogs dispatched to hell as for security forces few are injured. PAF should have its own Ground Force and also increase SSW size to 4000 with around 500 deployed to protect PAF bases with snipers deployed 24 hours. Every bases and Army camp should have several LCB taking rounds and protecting them . Today Great Job boys



dear we have ASF to protect bases and yes they are deployed 24/7 with snipers.. its already there and SSW is another thing bro SSW has separate duties. it is work of ASF to protect bases..


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## Maarkhoor

Rauf Lala said:


> I heard the same thing. They had condoms too.


They are not going to visit you

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Ulla said:


> Higher watch towers armed and manned by snipers, equipped with 12.7mm AA Gun, and search light, dog patrolls with food Soldiers, and a heavy amoured M-113, better security checks of all Persons who leave and enter the base,would be enough..... we have no funds for lasers and such stuff ! Why Army is not closing all the shops which are selling military uniforms ! ?




Point 1:
In cases like the one we see/hear about seems like the terrorist element group , out powered the entrance guards and went in , there was no shooting or minimum noise which is why they next went to mosque where unarmed soldiers were prarying in morning.

If there were like 3-4 guards at parameter the 13 or possibly 14 terrorist may have subdued , due to numerical advantage however its not mentioned if any gun rounds went off during that point. Otherwise the folks offering prayers may have heard it

Point 2:
I think if the entrance guards were protected by APC or behind secured structure, they would have had enough time to raise an allarm for near by units to converge. The APC unit troops would have detected the Terrorist engaging the guards , and they would have raised alarms and opened fire from safety of APC unit

Point 3:
Alternatively if cameras were installed which trigger automatically at night when someone crosses their line of sight would have been a third option to automatically converge troops to breach, the silent traps would work fine as well as night time not many folks go in and out of the base. Which makes it easy to manage turning allarm on and off

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## Burhan Wani

Akheilos said:


> Janaab mention some mods tts can only give him negative ratings which idiot would think of as a medal
> 
> @Manticore @WebMaster @Horus @Jungibaaz @Jango @T-Faz @blain2 @Oscar @Slav Defence @Icarus @Adios Amigo @Emmie


Be informed he was banned couple of days ago. He was using multi IDs.

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## coffee_cup

vsdoc said:


> Honestly, unless there was a high value asset involved, I do not think we would be wasting our time killing people.
> 
> Killing people is easy.



Take your bloody %$&§ obsession with high value asset somewhere else. We know how much you are wishing that some high value asset would have destroyed, but Indian proxies have been contained and are good only at attacking random civilians now. 

Just like they did in Sri Lanka for decades. But as Sri Lanka has destroyed your terrorist proxy, so will Pakistan as well, Insha Allah!

Go celebrate somewhere else and leave this thread!

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## Bratva

*Plot to attack Kamra airbase foiled: CTD*
IMTIAZ ALI — PUBLISHED ABOUT 14 HOURS AGO

KARACHI: Police on Thursday claimed to have arrested from Karachi an Afghanistan-trained militant who was planning to carry out a terror act at the Kamra airbase in Punjab.

Counter-Terrorism Department SSP Junaid Ahmed Shaikh said police arrested Umer Hayat alias Darvesh from MPR Colony, Orangi, on a tip off. He said the suspect was associated with Tehreek-i-Imarat Islamia, Afghanistan.

*Speaking at press conference at his office, the SSP said the held suspect is also a suicide bomber who had allegedly trained two suicide bombers identified as Raz Mohammed and Taj Mohammed.

“The purported suicide bombers had been sent to Punjab to carry out a terror act at the Kamra airbase,” said the official.

“But they failed due to extensive security arrangements there and returned back to Karachi.”

The suspect was also planning to carry out terror attacks on Eidgahs in Karachi during Eidul Azha, in addition to planning attacks on military installations in the metropolis.

“He is an expert in preparing suicide jackets and brainwashing suicide bombers,” said the CTD officer.

The held suspect received training from Afghanistan and also fought there, said the officer, adding that he was also allegedly involved in deadly terror acts against law enforcers in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

“He basically hailed from KP and came to Karachi after the devastating earthquake in 2005.”

The SSP said the suspect’s team consisted of 50 members.*

“He has given names of seven hardcore militants and forces are carrying out operations to arrest them to foil their nefarious designs,” said the police officer.

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## Maarkhoor

Rauf Lala said:


> Heard a high level target was there varchasave.


and got butchered but may be the visit you before

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## Inception-06

Rauf Lala said:


> I am really scared seeing this. Pasthunistan will be a reality soon.



what shiiit are you posting !


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## Assange

Rauf Lala said:


> I am really scared seeing this. Pasthunistan will be a reality soon.



What? Pasthunistan is that for really??? Do you guys any insurgency relating that????


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## Dubious

Rauf Lala said:


> We should get rid of these Freedom fighters. Madarsas should be closed down as they are running their tehreeq from there only.





Rauf Lala said:


> Heard a high level target was there varchasave.



@Manticore @WebMaster @Horus @Jungibaaz @Jango @T-Faz @blain2 @Oscar @Slav Defence @Icarus @Adios Amigo @Emmie


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## Maarkhoor

engineer saad said:


> Be informed he was banned couple of days ago. He was using multi IDs.


which id


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## vsdoc

Dalit said:


> We know that. They are created to sponsor terror inside Pakistan.



They were created for Research and Analysis. Intelligence. 

We were caught napping by your side in 48, again in 65. The RAW came up as a consequence of that.

Nothing more, nothing less.

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## Dalit

Bratva said:


> *Plot to attack Kamra airbase foiled: CTD*
> IMTIAZ ALI — PUBLISHED ABOUT 14 HOURS AGO
> 
> KARACHI: Police on Thursday claimed to have arrested from Karachi an Afghanistan-trained militant who was planning to carry out a terror act at the Kamra airbase in Punjab.
> 
> Counter-Terrorism Department SSP Junaid Ahmed Shaikh said police arrested Umer Hayat alias Darvesh from MPR Colony, Orangi, on a tip off. He said the suspect was associated with Tehreek-i-Imarat Islamia, Afghanistan.
> 
> *Speaking at press conference at his office, the SSP said the held suspect is also a suicide bomber who had allegedly trained two suicide bombers identified as Raz Mohammed and Taj Mohammed.
> 
> “The purported suicide bombers had been sent to Punjab to carry out a terror act at the Kamra airbase,” said the official.
> 
> “But they failed due to extensive security arrangements there and returned back to Karachi.”
> 
> The suspect was also planning to carry out terror attacks on Eidgahs in Karachi during Eidul Azha, in addition to planning attacks on military installations in the metropolis.
> 
> “He is an expert in preparing suicide jackets and brainwashing suicide bombers,” said the CTD officer.
> 
> The held suspect received training from Afghanistan and also fought there, said the officer, adding that he was also allegedly involved in deadly terror acts against law enforcers in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
> 
> “He basically hailed from KP and came to Karachi after the devastating earthquake in 2005.”
> 
> The SSP said the suspect’s team consisted of 50 members.*
> 
> “He has given names of seven hardcore militants and forces are carrying out operations to arrest them to foil their nefarious designs,” said the police officer.



Not a surprise whatsoever. Afghanistan is the launch platform where planning, training and financing takes place to attack Pakistan. We need to really go after the terror camps in Afghanistan and take them out. Otherwise, these attacks will keep taking place.

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## Sugarcane

May the civilians and military men Rest in Peace , and all the terrorists p!gs rot in hell.

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## Dubious

Ulla said:


> what shiiit are you posting !


same shit a troll posts

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## Dalit

vsdoc said:


> They were created for Research and Analysis. Intelligence.
> 
> We were caught napping by your side in 48, again in 65. The RAW came up as a consequence of that.
> 
> Nothing more, nothing less.



Today this "Research and Analysis" wing is plotting terror inside Pakistan.

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## Bratva

balixd said:


> @Horus, any idea who are the guys with blurred out faces???




There initial target was Kamra base once again. But couldnt make it through. Hence chose vulnerable spot. Since it was there Special group, explain how our QRF got pinned and took casualties. or else in previous attacks, they couldnt aim at them properly

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## Dubious

Someone update me please!


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## Maarkhoor

vsdoc said:


> They were created for Research and Analysis. Intelligence.
> 
> We were caught napping by your side in 48, again in 65. The RAW came up as a consequence of that.
> 
> Nothing more, nothing less.


Vulture keep visiting our threads

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## Dubious

*PAF camp attacked in Badaber: Army captain among 20 martyred*

_At least four members of the armed forces were also killed as they repulsed the attackers.

"Terrorists entered the camp at 2 points and further split in into sub groups. The encounter began immediately due to quick response. The terrorists were contained within a close area. Meanwhile a group rushed to the mosque and martyred 16 Namazis offering prayers," said DG ISPR Maj-Gen Asim Bajwa in tweets.

He said that 13 terrorists were surrounded and killed by security forces. He said that the terrorists were clad in Frontier Constabulary (FC) uniforms.

The DG ISPR added that an officer, Captain Isfandyar Bukhari, embraced martyrdom while fighting valiantly and leading his troops from the front.

A spokesman for the Pakistan Air Force said that three junior technicians Shan Ali, Saqib Javaid and Tariq Abbass also embraced martyrdom while fighting the attackers, killing five terrorists.

Pakistan Army commandoes, and personnel of the Pakistan Air Force and Quick Reaction Force (QRF) were carrying out a clearance operation at the Badaber camp, 10 kilometres south of Peshawar, the capital of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

Bajwa said operations were continuing to search for any remaining terrorists.

Officials told Geo News that the clearance operation had entered its final phase.

Speaking to reporters earlier, KP Information Minister Information Mushtaq Ghani said that security forces were currently carrying out the operation, while police has cordoned off the location with bomb disposal squad also present. Ghani said that the police also responded immediately and reached the location as soon as it received information.

The information minister said that the area was surrounded by tribal areas by all four sides and vulnerable to terrorist attacks. Ghani declined to share further information about how the terrorists were able to carry out the attack.

CCPO Peshawar Mubarak Zeb said that security forces effectively thwarted the terrorists' attempts to enter the base. He said that the operation would soon be completed and the area will be soon cleared.

Major Haseeb of the Quick Reaction Force (QRF), who was shot in the thigh, and two soldiers who were injured in the exchange of fire with the attackers were evacuated to the Combined Military Hospital (CMH) in Peshawar.

Rescue officials said the remaining injured people had been taken to various hospitals for treatment.



The DG ISPR said the clearance operation was being led by the Peshawar Brigade Commander with Quick Response Force, Army commandos, local PAF troops and police present outside the base in an outer cordon. The military spokesman later said that the Peshawar Corps Commander was also on the ground overseeing operations.

Earlier, Major General Bajwa said the terrorists tried to break deep into the base. Terrorists were engaged and contained around the guard room area, he added. The DG ISPR said the QRF reached and surrounded the facility and successfully isolated the terrorists.

PAF sources have clarified that the base is not an operational one rather it is residential. They also added that all the assets are safe.

The banned Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) claimed responsibility for the attack.







*COAS arrives in Peshawar*

Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Raheel Sharif arrived in Peshawar hours after the attack to visit the Corps Headquarters and met with the injured soldiers from the Army and the PAF who were being treated at the Combined Military Hospital.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has condemned the attack. A spokesman for the PM House said the prime minister was personally monitoring the operation against terrorists. PAF chief Air Marshal Sohail Aman spoke to PM Sharif over telephone and informed him in detail about the details of the ongoing operation.

Air Marshal Sohail Man will also be shortly departing for Peshawar to visit the Badaber base and meet the injured.

Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan praised personnel of the security forces for thwarting the terrorist attack and vowed that the war against terrorism would continue until its logical end.
_

*PAF camp attacked in Badaber: Army captain among 20 martyred | PAKISTAN - geo.tv*

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## Burhan Wani

Abu Namr said:


> which id


@Shamain Knows.

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## Dubious

_*Badaber attack: Major Haseeb contained terrorists within close area despite injuries*
Last Updated On *18 September,2015* About 0 seconds from now




Major Haseeb contained militants in an area and did not let them proceed with ill motives
PESAHWAR (Dunya News) – Quick Response Force’s (QRF) Major Haseeb led team in combat against terrorists who attacked Pakistan Air Force (PAF) residential camp in Badaber early in the morning today.

Major Haseeb contained militants in an area and did not let them proceed with ill motives. Brave soldiers including the Major were injured in the counter operation. However, despite this Haseeb kept his team together as an iron wall against the attackers.

Meanwhile, heavy contingent of security forces reached the combat site and circled banned outfit Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan’s (TTP) operatives.

Major Haseeb received a bullet at thigh while team personnel were also injured. The valiant sons of the nation who defend the country whenever need be were shifted to Combined Military Hospital (CMH).



Badaber attack: Major Haseeb contained terrorists within close area despite injuries | Pakistan | Dunya News_

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## Maarkhoor

Rauf Lala said:


> May Allah bless Mujahideens with Jannah.


moron call terrorists mujahideen few post back praising Pak army is he high on drugs or just a manufacturing fault / faulty genes

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## Dalit

Rauf Lala said:


> RIP freedom fighters. Shaheed ki jo maut hai qaum ki hayat hai.



Someone ban this b@stard immediately.

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## Maarkhoor

singh sahab said:


> Pashtunistan?
> 
> Matlab?


Khalistan

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## Peaceful Civilian

@Imran Khan, they again attacked during prayer timing and successfully penetrated in mosque and surrounding areas.
They just saw few security holes and penetrated it.

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## I.R.A

MastanKhan said:


> @Color_Less_Sky
> 
> What do you think now----would you rather have that guy sitting outside of your mosque with his weapon---sitting outside this mosque as well----could have made a difference----.



Sir I would not have shared this but let me make it public now, that idiot attacked one of our neighbor's house with his son, firing at them just because that innocent soul would not marry his daughter to thug son of this thug. And believe me latter on when we confronted him in a jirga he was all sheep, so yes he is an idiot. Now you tell me kissi Musalman ki izzat ki hurmat ziada hay yah Baitullah Haram Shareef ki?

And sir you are more experienced than me, have better knowledge than me do you really think a normal civilian with a gun would have protected the people inside mosque and not added another casualty to the list of innocent that died today? A serving Captain, two guards died fighting these barbarians.

This case again is a grave failure of our non detection of suspicious activities, 13 people fully armed came to a big city and attacked a forces establishment and hell none of us knew, we as usual preferred getting our soldiers and civilians killed, took a defensive position. Don't know but there is some serious issue here which we have not been able to resolve for more than now what like 10 years and after thousands of attacks. I hope the top leadership meeting in Peshawar resolves to take some concrete actions. Courtesy to our NADRA every other person is Pakistani.

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## vsdoc

coffee_cup said:


> Take your bloody %$&§ obsession with high value asset somewhere else. We know how much you are wishing that some high value asset would have destroyed, but Indian proxies have been contained and are good only at attacking random civilians now.
> 
> Just like they did in Sri Lanka for decades. But as Sri Lanka has destroyed your terrorist proxy, so will Pakistan as well, Insha Allah!
> 
> Go celebrate somewhere else and leave this thread!



You have a right to be testy and lash out randomly.

Was responding to my old friend about his feelings regarding our NSA being happy.

To be honest, 16 dead Pakistanis would not make our NSA blink. Throw in a couple of your jets, an AWACs or two, maybe a central depot, or communications node, now that would mean something .....


----------



## Dubious

*30 people including 13 terrorists killed in Taliban attack on Pakistan air force base*

*Peshawar: At 16 people were killed on Friday when heavily armed Taliban terrorists launched a brazen attack on an air force base and a mosque inside it in this restive Pakistani city, in one of the major terror assaults on a military facility that also left 13 terrorists dead.

A group of gunmen wearing explosives-laden jackets and armed with hand-propelled grenades, mortars, AK-47 rifles attacked a guard post as they tried to fight their way into the Badaber air base on outskirts of Peshawar, the capital of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.





The attack was carried out by a group of seven to 10 terrorists at Inqalab road in Peshawar's Badaber area.
Thirteen terrorists were killed by security forces, military spokesman Major General Asim Bajwa tweeted. Sixteen people offering prayers at a mosque inside the air force camp were killed by the militants, Bajwa said. A doctor at a hospital said they have received one more unidentified body.

Terrorists entered the camp at two points, splitting into sub-groups, sparking a fierce gunbattle with security forces, Bajwa said.

At least 22 people, including eight soldiers and two senior army officer, were injured in the attack. Injured persons have been shifted to a military hospital in Peshawar and two have been taken to Lady Reading Hospital (LRH). An emergency has been declared in both hospitals.

Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) claimed responsibility for the attack. "Our suicidal unit carried out the attack," TTP spokesman Muhammad Khurasani said in an email statement. Khurasani claimed that 80 security personnel were surrounded by the militants and 50 of them killed but it was not confirmed. He also claimed that women and children were given safe exit which was also not confirmed.

Bajwa said security forces reached the area shortly after and sealed it off but a gunbattle is still under way. "Clearance ops still underway. Searching for hidden terrorists," Bajwa tweeted.

Eyewitnesses claim they saw terrorists dressed in black militia uniforms and wearing white shoes. Nearby residents said explosions and gunfire could still be heard hours after the attack took place. Corps Commander Lieutenant General Hidayatur Rehman conducted aerial surveillance of the base from a helicopter.

Around 15 people were arrested during the search operation. Army chief General Raheel Sharif has left for Peshawar. Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif condemned the attack and said, "Terrorists will be rooted out from the country."

The Badaber air base is not functional and mostly being used as a residential place for the employees and officers of the air force. Peshawar has frequently been targeted by militants. In December 2014, more than 150 people, mostly children were killed when Taliban gunmen attacked an army-run school.


30 people including 13 terrorists killed in Taliban attack on Pakistan air force base - IBNLive
*


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## Maarkhoor

vsdoc said:


> You have a right to be testy and lash out randomly.
> 
> Was responding to my old friend about his feelings regarding our NSA being happy.
> 
> To be honest, 16 dead Pakistanis would not make our NSA blink. Throw in a couple of your jets, an AWACs or two, maybe a central depot, or communications node, now that would mean something .....


so your RAW sponsored dogs failed to achieve what was planned.


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## Econofpak

Peshawar Attack was a strategic mistake by our enemies, resulting in dismantling of their terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan. And they think Badaber attack will play out well for them? Big mistake.


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## Maarkhoor

vsdoc said:


> Abu why do you refer to me as vulture?
> 
> Are you again attacking my faith, like your previous side swipe about albino bull urine?
> 
> This is really poor form buddy. Even for someone like you.


No never i am referring your nature


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## Zarvan

Rauf Lala said:


> May Allah bless Mujahideens with Jannah.


Are you drunk ? As for Pashtunistan forget about that and as for 13 idiots they are in Hell getting special treatment alongside Abu Juhal and others


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## coffee_cup

vsdoc said:


> You have a right to be testy and lash out randomly.
> 
> Was responding to my old friend about his feelings regarding our NSA being happy.
> 
> To be honest, 16 dead Pakistanis would not make our NSA blink. Throw in a couple of your jets, an AWACs or two, maybe a central depot, or communications node, now that would mean something .....



@Horus @waz why is this Indian still allowed to throw salt on our injuries in a situation where each and everyone of us is mourning our dead, these tongue-in-the-cheek Indians are flooding the thread with all sort of bullshyte.

Can you please ban them from this thread at least? thanks!

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## Dubious

*PAF camp attacked in ‪‎Badaber‬: Capt. Asfandyar Bukhari embraced martyrdom*

*




*

*PESHAWAR: Commander of Jinnah Wing Captain Asfandyar Bukhari embraced martyrdom during the ongoing operation against terrorists in Badaber camp Peshawar, TheNewsTribe.com reported.*

*Capt. Asfandyar was leading his troops from the front during the operation, said ISPR.*

*Asfandyar was passed out from PMA-118 long course. He was a brilliant cadet and was awarded many awards during his cadet-ship.

He also played Hockey for Punjab’s under-19 team.

Captain Asfand was leading from the front and was fighting valiantly when hit by bullets, he embraced martyrdom.

PAF camp attacked in ‪‎Badaber‬: Capt. Asfandyar Bukhari embraced martyrdom | The News Tribe
*

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## Zarvan

Their were no assets in this base only some residential area. Mosque without Guards in a base is not good.

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## Kashir

There is a news that Capt. Asfand Yar is been embraced Shahadah. Can any one confirm please?

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## AtiF Malang

R.I.P to brave souls who sacrificed their life for the motherland , who sacrificed their today for our tomorrow. 
I think chae wala was upset by yesterday's Obama statement that AQ is neutralized in KPK and FATA. 
Musharraf and Geo's Aman ka tamasha made our assets Kashmir very weak other wise tea boy and Co. Would think 20 times before doing such thing

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

An operation is due in Kabul and surrounding city

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## pakdefender

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> An operation is due in Kabul and surrounding city



also New Delhi and surrounding areas


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## Dubious

I am not interested in viewing such shitty troll posts or people who have no manners / feelings or anything that can relate them to human
@Manticore @WebMaster @Horus @Jungibaaz @Jango @T-Faz @blain2 @Oscar @Slav Defence @Icarus @Adios Amigo @Emmie

*
Pakistanis hold your horses ....I dont care where you read it we all know how media acted last yr for the APS so dont get fooled too easily

And indians just simply get lost!*

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## coffee_cup

vsdoc said:


> I doubt the RAW could be bothered with killing people in prayer.
> 
> Unless it was to tell Pakistan that the "things looking up, let's spread anarchy in Kashmir again" honeymoon was over ....



@WebMaster @Horus @Manticore @waz @Irfan Baloch 

This is really not acceptable. 

Everything has its time and occasion, if the Indians want to celebrate the attack for whatever sick reasons, and you want to keep tolerating them, they should open their own thread for that.

Please make them go away from this thread, it is for us Pakistanis to mourn our dead and not to see Indians cheering.

Thanks!

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## Maarkhoor

vsdoc said:


> Like you did when you asked me out of the blue whether I liked drinking bull urine.
> 
> I'm not a kid, and you are treading on dangerous ground here.
> 
> @Irfan Baloch


You are referring posts from other thread matter was over there why the hell you bring old matters from other threads

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## Dalit

vsdoc said:


> I doubt the RAW could be bothered with killing people in prayer.
> 
> Unless it was to tell Pakistan that the "things looking up, let's spread anarchy in Kashmir again" honeymoon was over ....



Reported.

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## Dubious

Kashir said:


> There is a news that Capt. Asfand Yar is been embraced Shahadah. Can any one confirm please?



I saw it in 2 newspapers



Akheilos said:


> *PAF camp attacked in ‪‎Badaber‬: Capt. Asfandyar Bukhari embraced martyrdom*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *PESHAWAR: Commander of Jinnah Wing Captain Asfandyar Bukhari embraced martyrdom during the ongoing operation against terrorists in Badaber camp Peshawar, TheNewsTribe.com reported.*
> 
> *Capt. Asfandyar was leading his troops from the front during the operation, said ISPR.*
> 
> *Asfandyar was passed out from PMA-118 long course. He was a brilliant cadet and was awarded many awards during his cadet-ship.*
> 
> *He also played Hockey for Punjab’s under-19 team.*
> 
> *Captain Asfand was leading from the front and was fighting valiantly when hit by bullets, he embraced martyrdom.*
> 
> *PAF camp attacked in ‪‎Badaber‬: Capt. Asfandyar Bukhari embraced martyrdom | The News Tribe*





Abu Namr said:


> You are referring posts from other thread matter was over there why the hell you bring old matters from other threads


Dont confront just report and ignore...

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## vsdoc

coffee_cup said:


> @WebMaster @Horus @Manticore @waz @Irfan Baloch
> 
> This is really not acceptable.
> 
> Everything has its time and occasion, if the Indians want to celebrate the attack for whatever sick reasons, and you want to keep tolerating them, they should open their own thread for that.
> 
> Please make them go away from this thread, it is for us Pakistanis to mourn our dead and not to see Indians cheering.
> 
> Thanks!



No one is cheering.

A soldier's death gives me no pleasure.



Abu Namr said:


> You are referring posts from other thread matter was over there why the hell you bring old matters from other threads



You continue to do it here. 

You are taking digs at a member's faith.

People were banned for a lot less in the old days.

Obviously things have slipped, more than a bit, when your kind traipse through an international forum displaying your low IQ crassness.

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## Amaa'n

Bilal saqib said:


> dear we have ASF to protect bases and yes they are deployed 24/7 with snipers.. its already there and SSW is another thing bro SSW has separate duties. it is work of ASF to protect bases..


ASF = Air Port Security Force - which is under Cabinet division - & not MoD, for PAF security duties we have
DSG = Defense Security Group

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## AtiF Malang

All Pakistani bros stop replying to low life people . Some people are too det no need to waste time on them let them bark

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## Dalit

These Indians are openly bragging and celebrating about how their terrorist intelligence outfit is plotting and striking Pakistan. I think this is a matter of concern for our moderators.

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## Amaa'n

Bratva said:


> There initial target was Kamra base once again. But couldnt make it through. Hence chose vulnerable spot. Since it was there Special group, explain how our QRF got pinned and took casualties. or else in previous attacks, they couldnt aim at them properly


number of Fidayeen is 11, as per the photo -- what happened to 3 others???
this blurry faces is confusing me man

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## coffee_cup

vsdoc said:


> No one is cheering.
> 
> A soldier's death gives me no pleasure.
> 
> .



Leave this thread. We have had enough of your indian shyte in this thread.

You are testing our patience. 

If Abu Namr or anyone else calls you a vulture, he is absolutely right. You can not go on insulting our dead and still expect to be respected here.

LEAVE. 

You are not welcome here.

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## Dubious

Dalit said:


> These Indians openly bragging and celebrating about how their terrorist intelligence outfit is plotting and striking Pakistan. I think this is a matter of concern for our moderators.


For another hr...Right now is not the time....report them and ignore them...*there is nothing more painful for attention seekers than not getting the attention they crave! *

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## AtiF Malang

Akheilos said:


> watch the language Malang sahab....We are all pissed and ready to break someone's bone but manners maketh man and showcase we are the man here!


Sorry . I deleted my post .

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## Maarkhoor

balixd said:


> number of Fidayeen is 11, as per the photo -- what happened to 3 others???
> this blurry faces is confusing me man


may they are plotters or trainers or still alive

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## Dubious

vsdoc said:


> Your continued reference to me as a vulture dates back to an earlier thread where your bull urine sneak attack was followed up by the crass comment about us providing "snacks" for vultures.
> 
> And obvious reference to the Zoroastrian method of disposing the mortal remains of our dead.
> 
> Do NOT BS that you did not know about the same, especially when your best friend from childhood is self-claimedly a Pakistani Parsi.
> 
> You continued to do it on the bakra eid thread.
> 
> And you continue to do it here.
> 
> As I said, you are a low life bigot. And deserve what's coming to you.
> 
> @Irfan Baloch


What in the world is stopping you from getting lost? The mod will come to take care of you once we are done with this thread! Do you need assistance to get lost, I can assure you it will be more severe if not done voluntarily!

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## coffee_cup

Abu Namr said:


> quote me the post u moron where i hit on your religion in this thread



Ignore this pathetic person, man.


This is in their nature to celebrate the deaths of innocent people. They have been spreading their terrorism for decades in the neighboring countries, do you think they have any feelings for civilians?

Really, ignore him from now on and just report his posts.

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## Black Mamba1

New Resolve said:


> Really u blame Modi and his side kicks for daily casualties in Occupied Kashmir. This COAS puts a premium on revenge i'm not worried that the terrorists or their handlers behind this will get away with it.



But Modi's KRA ( Key Result Area) is not security of Kashmir alone. Economy, Foreign relation, Education etc---- lot of other important things are there in his KRA. We replaced mighty Indira, Atal, we replaced Manmohan earlier. If not performing, Modi will be removed too , be sure about that. Tested process is already in place in India.

But the responsibility or KRA of your COAS is to provide security to the state and citizens from external treats. He even overstepped to capture internal security too. Now all responsibility comes along with some accountability too. To whom he is accountable? No process is in place. The entire basis is only the assumption/trust that "He will discharge his responsibility rightly"---that's all.

If you want to give the power to run/protect a nation to somebody on the basis of trust without accountability its your choice. But nowhere in the world it is successful yet.

They say "absolute power corrupts absolutely "

( I have no issue with General Rahul, only pointing out a great lacuna in process and unnecessary hero worship)


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## Dubious

I am not interested in viewing such shitty troll posts or people who have no manners / feelings or anything that can relate them to human
@Manticore @WebMaster @Horus @Jungibaaz @Jango @T-Faz @blain2 @Oscar @Slav Defence @Icarus @Adios Amigo @Emmie @Irfan Baloch 

*
Pakistanis hold your horses ....I dont care where you read it we all know how media acted last yr for the APS so dont get fooled too easily

And indians KINDLY just get lost!*

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## Amaa'n

@Bratva - also note that TSG = Tactical Support Group is tasked with carrying out coordinated tactical attacks on installations while STF - Special Task Force has been involved in Targetted killing ----
holy moly these guys have cooler names than our Police

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## Dubious

balixd said:


> @Horus, any idea who are the guys with blurred out faces???


why on earth do they pose for a picture? Isnt that haram? Is that a woman in the back or just a man with really long hair?

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## Amaa'n

Abu Namr said:


> may they are plotters or trainers or still alive


check in photo - the fideyaan's have their white Shroud draped on their head- the remaining don't



Akheilos said:


> why on earth do they pose for a picture? Isnt that haram? Is that a woman in the back or just a man with really long hair?


 its a man with really funny hairdo

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## coffee_cup

balixd said:


> @Bratva - also note that TSG = Tactical Support Group is tasked with carrying out coordinated tactical attacks on installations while STF - Special Task Force has been involved in Targetted killing ----
> holy moly these guys have cooler names than our Police



Ajit Devil has taken care of all the smallest of details.

Displaying the banner with "Kalima" in the background to go to a mosque and spray praying Namazis with bullets.

Yep, they are doing it for "Hoors", but most probably for "Hoors" pictured on Indian Rupees, a few million of those would do a fine job!

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## AtiF Malang

Its Raheel not Rahul


Black Mamba1 said:


> But Modi's KRA ( Key Result Area) is not security of Kashmir alone. Economy, Foreign relation, Education etc---- lot of other important things are there in his KRA. We replaced mighty Indira, Atal, we replaced Manmohan earlier. If not performing, Modi will be removed too , be sure about that. Tested process is already in place in India.
> 
> But the responsibility or KRA of your COAS is to provide security to the state and citizens from external treats. He even overstepped to capture internal security too. Now all responsibility comes along with some accountability too. To whom he is accountable? No process is in place. The entire basis is only the assumption/trust that "He will discharge his responsibility rightly"---that's all.
> 
> If you want to give the power to run/protect a nation to somebody on the basis of trust without accountability its your choice. But nowhere in the world it is successful yet.
> 
> They say "absolute power corrupts absolutely "
> 
> ( I have no issue with General Rahul, only pointing out a great lacuna in process and unnecessary hero worship)

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## Bratva

balixd said:


> number of Fidayeen is 11, as per the photo -- what happened to 3 others???
> this blurry faces is confusing me man



Count again there are 13 Jhanuumi excluding two blurry faces and one in the back ground. The blurry faces would be the underground commanders in Khyber agency. Remember their launching point ?

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## Dubious

coffee_cup said:


> Ajit Devil has taken care of all the smallest of details.
> 
> Displaying the banner with "Kalima" in the background to go to a mosque and spray praying Namazis with bullets.
> 
> Yep, they are doing it for "Hoors", but most probably for "Hoors" pictured on Indian Rupees, a few million of those would do a fine job!


We can keep the indian crap out for the time being....until we get the proper answers (not from media made up breaking news like in APS)



balixd said:


> its a man with really funny hairdo


 Hanslo mein thori us kameenay Chakkay ko check kiya tha!

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## Irfan Baloch

pak-marine said:


> hope its halted resulting in a total failure for the pigs of hell and their genes


the pigs killed 16 people in the Mosque.its good to see the picture evidence that the dead terrorists were not killed by themselves through blowing up but through precise gunshots in the encounters.


rest in peace to those who took the brunt of the attack. the success of the security forces is that these attacks are prevented in their planning stage and these pigs are eliminated in their nests. regardless where these pigs are hiding

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## Bratva

balixd said:


> @Bratva - also note that TSG = Tactical Support Group is tasked with carrying out coordinated tactical attacks on installations while STF - Special Task Force has been involved in Targetted killing ----
> holy moly these guys have cooler names than our Police



And the MSG= Muslim services group which are used to pinned down Royal Indian army (Pak army) advancing infantry and LCB battallion

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## Maarkhoor

balixd said:


> check in photo - the fideyaan's have their white Shroud draped on their head- the remaining don't


Yes bro i notice is too thats way i said may they are still out there or alive


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## In arduis fidelis

Rauf Lala said:


> May Allah bless Mujahideens with Jannah.


And you along with them..Please tell me your address and before it is traced by the agencies so i can full fill your life long dream of dying for your beloved pushtunnistan.May you join your comrades where ever they may be.

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## nForce

balixd said:


> check in photo - the fideyaan's have their white Shroud draped on their head- the remaining don't


Is that ritualistic ?


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## Shamain

@Jungibaaz u had banned both multis rauf lala and mufti how they both got unbanned and they are messing again.??? Whats happening here?

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## Devil Soul

Salute.........

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## vsdoc

nForce said:


> Is that ritualistic ?



"Sar pe kafan baandh ke"

I missed it till Bratva pointed it out ...

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## Secret Service

GTM900 said:


> What next? A terrorist will walk into a shopping mall in a densely populated Pakistani city and detonate his suitcase Nuke?



oh ...it may happen in India... and yeah this time it can be a shopping mall not hotel..


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## Amaa'n

nForce said:


> Is that ritualistic ?


movie mein nhn suna - Sir pe kafan bandh ke jaang pe jana??

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## SRP

pakdefender said:


> also New Delhi and surrounding areas



You are welcome


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## nForce

balixd said:


> movie mein nhn suna - Sir pe kafan bandh ke jaang pe jana??


Didn't know they really mean it here.


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## Devil Soul

Three PAF Airmen who embraced shahadat while valiantly fighting against the terrorists.

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## Burhan Wani

Shamain said:


> @Jungibaaz u had banned both multis rauf lala and mufti how they both got unbanned and they are messing again.??? Whats happening here?

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## Dubious

I am not interested in viewing such shitty troll posts or people who have no manners / feelings or anything that can relate them to human
@Manticore @WebMaster @Horus @Jungibaaz @Jango @T-Faz @blain2 @Oscar @Slav Defence @Icarus @Adios Amigo @Emmie @Irfan Baloch

*
Pakistanis hold your horses ....I dont care where you read it we all know how media acted last yr for the APS so dont get fooled too easily

And indians KINDLY just get lost!*

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## nForce

I believe it's over by now. Picture of the young man was particularly heartbreaking.

What are the damages ?


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## Shamain

@Jungibaaz



engineer saad said:


>


@jungibaazhad said that day he hs sentthem both on a longggg ban and here both ids are back.!!!

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## Burhan Wani

Shamain said:


> @jungibaazhad said that day he hs sentthem both on a longggg ban and here both ids are back.!!!


I will not trust them any more.

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## New Resolve

Black Mamba1 said:


> But Modi's KRA ( Key Result Area) is not security of Kashmir alone. Economy, Foreign relation, Education etc---- lot of other important things are there in his KRA. We replaced mighty Indira, Atal, we replaced Manmohan earlier. If not performing, Modi will be removed too , be sure about that. Tested process is already in place in India.
> 
> But the responsibility or KRA of your COAS is to provide security to the state and citizens from external treats. He even overstepped to capture internal security too. Now all responsibility comes along with some accountability too. To whom he is accountable? No process is in place. The entire basis is only the assumption/trust that "He will discharge his responsibility rightly"---that's all.
> 
> If you want to give the power to run/protect a nation to somebody on the basis of trust without accountability its your choice. But nowhere in the world it is successful yet.
> 
> They say "absolute power corrupts absolutely "
> 
> ( I have no issue with General Rahul, only pointing out a great lacuna in process and unnecessary hero worship)




Yeah i dont know about General Rahul, never heard of him, sounds like an indian general.

General Raheel is doing great, he will get revenge, thats very important for the pakistani people. The buck stops with Modi, you guys are taking almost daily casualties in Occupied Kashmir yet the hero worship continues.

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## Burhan Wani

Shamain said:


> True.
> And these lowlife indians and that vsdoc. What the hell is going on in here.


What can i say.

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## Dubious

GTM900 said:


> What next? A terrorist will walk into a shopping mall in a densely populated Pakistani city and detonate his suitcase Nuke?


@Irfan Baloch


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## Devil Soul



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## Devil Soul

GTM900 said:


> What next? A terrorist will walk into a shopping mall in a densely populated Pakistani city and detonate his suitcase Nuke?


Stop having wet dreams.... or day dreaming.....

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## Black Mamba1

New Resolve said:


> Yeah i dont know about General Rahul, never heard of him, sounds like an indian general.
> 
> General Raheel is doing great, he will get revenge, thats very important for the pakistani people. The buck stops with Modi, you guys are taking almost daily casualties in Occupied Kashmir yet the hero worship continues.



Sorry for the name mistake.

Its not the point that he is doing a good job or not individually. Even he fails 2 times with a success of 98 times I will tell him successful. But point is for those 2 failure whether he is accountable or not?

If next general reverse the failure % to 98%, if process is not in place he will not be accountable for his 98% failure. Hope you understand. I do not want to continue this argument anymore in this sad day.


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## coffee_cup

Shamain said:


> True.
> And these lowlife indians and that vsdoc. What the hell is going on in here.



What kind of doc has so much time to spend all day on PDF?

Must be a witch doc.

Taking pleasure on the death and destruction of innocent people.

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## vsdoc

indiatester said:


> So you folks were smirking whenever there is a terrorist attack in Kashmir and Kabul? I do remember threads where many of your countrymen were praising the terrorists with glee.
> 
> On Topic: RIP to the martyred



Sneak attacks and asymmetric warfare is always going to be the reality between two hostile neighbors armed with nukes which preclude a hot war.

Personally, I've been on PDF long enough not to feel bad or outraged when their guys (or gals) gloat at attacks on our soil.

Its par for the course.

Does not mean we should do the same.

But calling a spade a spade is part and parcel of a forum for discussion.

Which is how this entire brouhaha from the usual suspects started. Holier than thou.

Horus made a comment about Doval saab smirking. And I put things into perspective for Horus.

What is India going to gain from knocking down 16 people?

Would the NSA of a 1.25 billion strong nation spend 5 minutes of his time on such a hit?

If anything, a naval base type hit would be something which would warrant his attention.

My first post on the thread was exactly on the same track. When I asked Fatman about assets on the base attacked. Not that I expected him to answer if there were. But it explains the line of thought.

Unless there was a high value target expected to be there at the time of the attack, this was not a RAW sanctioned hit. Period.

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## Shamain

coffee_cup said:


> What kind of doc has so much time to spend all day on PDF?
> 
> Must be a witch doc.
> 
> Taking pleasure on the death and destruction of innocent people.


Subhuman crap these indians are

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## pakdefender

Terrorists wanted to enter residential area to target families of officers , they were intercepted and they went in and killed people saying Friday prayers.

This could have been a repeat of what happened in APS peshawar.

There seems to be functioning terrorists support system in and around Peshawar which needs to found and uprooted.

The operations near the Pak-Afghan belt has caused some of these rats to flee further westwards Afghanistan while some have fled eastwards into Pakistan

A cleanup operation in Peshawar might be needed next.

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## New Resolve

Black Mamba1 said:


> Sorry for the name mistake.
> 
> Its not the point that he is doing a good job or not individually. Even he fails 2 times with a success of 98 times I will tell him successful. But point is for those 2 failure whether he is accountable or not?
> 
> If next general reverse the failure % to 98%, if process is not in place he will not be accountable for his 98% failure. Hope you understand. I do not want to continue this argument anymore in this sad day.



The problem is Modi has failed 98% of the time so its time you should stop wasting your time here and join the Patels and start a movement against Modi.

I think Pakistan needs to do something serious after this attack, to start with withdraw the diplomatic staff from A-Stan, end transit trade, hit the terrorists hiding there. Their handlers are getting hit regularly anyway.


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## Super Falcon

Can we try to catch these basterd alive with tranqulizer sniper rather than killing them so we can extract their fundings and hidouts

Pakistan should atleast put one marksman with special tranqulizer sniper gun or shock pistol or gas csnestor etc to catch these pigs and extract bigger pigs names location etc

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## Irfan Baloch

indiatester said:


> So you folks were smirking whenever there is a terrorist attack in Kashmir and Kabul?


why quote/ copy the bad examples? if some irresponsible Pakistanis make offensive posts then there are others who post their respects as well.

on topic
the loss of life of the soft target .. i.e 16 worshippers is regrettable whether in mosque, temple or a church.
those that lost their lives fighting the terrorists fulfilled their oaths and duty so respects to them

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## Mr.Nair

This is a sad incident, but any thing on pakistan will be related to india is not good

1. Is india responsible for soviet occupation in afghanistan-No
2. Is india responsible for pakistan support to US against taliban-No
3. Is india responsible for zarb e azb-No
4. Is india responsible for taliban revenge for zarb e azb-No

These fanatics should be eliminated from all places including kashmir.

@Shamain @coffee_cup @WAJsal @Areesh

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## Paksanity

My heart aches. We didn't have to loose our sons like this. May Allah elevate them in Jannah. 

Then again it's a war and we shouldn't expect an enemy as low as they are to give up his act. Maybe we declared victory too soon in our minds. Maybe we didn't take our ruling elite to task harsh enough. Or maybe we left everything to Armed Forces without thinking society has a role to play as well. This is a set back. Not the first one and my heart fears may not be the last one. But it is a reminder also. War is far from over and we must not allow our enemies to go back to their devices. They will try to instill doubts in our hearts. Try to convince us that this fight Pakistani nation can not win. Try to raise suspicion on our security apparatus through usual means. Media anchors, liberals, JUI mullahs, Lal Masjid scums...all such subhumans will use this incident to forward their agenda. It is up to us to understand what is the cost of loosing; it is to give up our way of life. Price will have to be paid for the battles but loosing war I not an option, come what may!

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## Windjammer

Badaber camp is just a residential compound for PAF personnel.

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## Irfan Baloch

nForce said:


> I believe it's over by now. Picture of the young man was particularly heartbreaking.
> 
> What are the damages ?


the damages are the deaths of 16 people killed as they were praying. rest you can see in pictures that the terrorists failed to detonate their bombs and were taken out in the outer cordon..

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## Windjammer



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## Dubious

War live and in real-time: Pakistani general tweets defence of Badaber air base

*Sajjad Mali*





Major General Asim Saleem Bajwa._ Photo: Twitter/AsimBajwaISPR

slamabad: At least 13 militants have been killed so far in clashes with security forces when they attacked a Pakistani air force base in the troubled north-west, the military said.

The militants attacked Badaber air base in the suburbs of Peshawar city in the early morning, army spokesman Major-General Asim Saleem Bajwa said.

General Bajwa took to Twitter to provide a running update on the battle, starting with "...Quick reaction force reached,surrounded, isolated them.Fire exch continues- 1", then updating every few minutes, including posting unpublishable pictures of carnage.

Soon "Peshawar" was trending on Twitter.

2:45 AM - 18 Sep 2015 &middot; Details_


*AsimBajwaISPR* ‏@AsimBajwaISPR  47m47 minutes ago
Update:Army Chief &Air Chief together visit Badaber http://Camp.Meet PAF,Army,police troops who,defeated attk&killed all terrorists-12

"Thirteen terrorists killed so far," he said at time of writing. Ten soldiers were injured in the clash including two officers, he tweeted earlier.


"Thirteen terrorists killed so far," he said at time of writing. Ten soldiers were injured in the clash including two officers, he tweeted earlie

simBajwaISPR @AsimBajwaISPR
Were contained within a close area.Meanwhile a gp rushed to mosque,martyred 16 Namazi offering prayers.Were surrounded,13 killed,continues-9

8:31 AM - 18 Sep 2015



Soon later, he tweeted a photo of Captain Asfandyar, declaring he had "embraced shahadat" [martyrdom]. 

Rescue sources said that they shifted about two dozen injured to different hospitals.

General Bajwa said clearance operations were still going on.

The Taliban claimed responsibility, saying they killed "50 security men". Spokesman Muhammad Khurasani said women and children were given safe exit.

Peshawar city police chief Mubarik Zeb told media that the militants may have launched the attack from the Khyber tribal region that is adjacent to Badaber.

It was the first major attack on a security force compound since the Taliban stormed an army-run school in Peshawar in December, killing about 150 people including 136 students.

The attack calls into doubt claims by the civilian government and the army of having "broken the back of militants" in the country.

It also raises questions marks about the gains of military offensives in the tribal regions launched in June last year to eliminate militants.



Read more: War live and in real-time: Pakistani general tweets defence of Badaber air base

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## Dubious

*AsimBajwaISPR* ‏@AsimBajwaISPR  3h3 hours ago
Update:terrorists came in constabulary uniform.3 heli participate in clearance/cas evac.A heli made emergency landing due tech fault,safe-11

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## Djinn

*According to the reports on TV channels. The network behind this attack is known to have strong links with RAW and Afghan intelligence. Pakistan should bring this to UN's notice as soon as possible. *

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## senses

Why can't we ban indians from this forum ? seeing them rejoicing on cowardly attacks makes by blood boil.

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## Mrc

It is becoming imparative to take afghan (superior race ) heads on...

Air strikes shud start on afghan border areas...
Drones shud be used try to eliminate the ttp leadership inside afghanistan....


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## coffee_cup

Rauf Lala said:


> ...
> 
> Sources:Army is trying to catch one terrorist alive.He has been identified as Radhe Mohan.Details awaited.



Even though we are fighting Indian cross-border terrorism for so many decades, we do not follow blindly Indian bollywood inspired govt who only get embarrassed after catching ISI pigeon/camel, terror boats, catching "Pakistani" Kasab or pinning blame for Samjhota Express on us.

PS.: Go on keep posting your tripe. Once you have reached few hundred posts before being banned and feel your ego is polished, look around and think about whether you would have spent those precious moments of your life doing something more productive, such as creating jobs for millions of educated unemployed people who are applying for 300 clerical jobs.

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## Dubious

senses said:


> Why can't we ban indians from this forum ? seeing them rejoicing on cowardly attacks makes by blood boil.


They are on the forum to test our patience  

Allah tests us in different ways

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## Irfan Baloch

nForce said:


> I believe it's over by now. Picture of the young man was particularly heartbreaking.
> 
> What are the damages ?


the damages are the deaths of 16 people killed as they were praying. rest you can see in pictures that the terrorists failed to detonate their bombs and were taken out in the outer cordon..


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## AtiF Malang

Akheilos said:


> They are on the forum to test our patience
> 
> Allah tests us in different ways


Internet is a heaven for them where they can release their gas otherwise in real life they can't talk face to face .

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## Mrc

Neutralize their op bases inside afghanistan..
Desparate times need desparate measures

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## Super Falcon

Why al wearing white pt shoes


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## Windjammer




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## Muhammad Omar

Media is saying some PAF personals and 3 technicians also Died... Total 16?? is that true?

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## Mr.WetPants

Last Samuri said:


> WhyWhy are your own people own face and religion destroying and attacking your own bases.
> 
> What is their agenda and goal


I think you are an immature kid.



Imran Khan said:


> bhai mery USA nad afghans themselves want to talk becasue they failed to control taliban


Control the taliban? I thought they founded them.


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## Windjammer

A contact lived in this house situated inside the Badaber Camp in 2011.

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## VCheng

vsdoc said:


> Or my friend @Syed.Ali.Haider
> 
> Our patients are dying. Help!



Look I work only 24 hours from morning till evening, and then relax for a bit. 

Back to the topic, I deplore this cowardly attack and regret the loss of life of the personnel. It is good to see the terrorists get the one way express ticket to the hell they deserve.

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## Beethoven

16 casulaties....most of them were people who were offering their prayers inside a masjid within the base

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## Muhammad Omar

Time to conduct Operation in Afghanistan...

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## ganesh623

Mrc said:


> It is becoming imparative to take afghan (superior race ) heads on...
> 
> Air strikes shud start on afghan border areas...
> Drones shud be used try to eliminate the ttp leadership inside afghanistan....



Pakistan should and have all the rights to investigate this attack within the borders of its own country.
If anything information they need from afghanistan they should ask for it in a diplomatic ways.


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Beethoven said:


> 16 casulaties....most of them were people who were offering their prayers inside a masjid within the base




They belonged to the PAF too without any doubts

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## vsdoc

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Look I work only 24 hours from morning till evening, and then relax for a bit.



That's 24 more than I do.

Must be those satanic greenbacks. 

On topic, how is it that not a single attacker managed to get his bomb vest off?

13 guys and all went down fighting? Coordinated headshots?

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## senses

Muhammad Omar said:


> Media is saying some PAF personals and 3 technicians also Died... Total 16?? is that true?


16 Namazi embraced martyrdom with 3 airforce technicians and capt isfandyar so total 20.

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

I don't know but what is happening to me? 2 of the martyrs belonged to my village and I have got information that Captain Isfandyar Ahmed is an ex student of our college.

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## Super Falcon

I say nuke this cancer afghanistan pain for everyone once it for all

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## AsianLion

Please note that its not a PAF base; its just a camp. None the less an unfortunate incident. However the response from security forces was also befitting and laudable. They are definitely better prepared now from desparate Bharti and Afghani ragtag terrorists.


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## Peter Griffin

RIP innocents

PS: I am seeing too much of 503 server not found. kindly fix this


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## Burhan Wani

Muhammad Omar said:


> Time to conduct Operation in Afghanistan...


I want to volunteer my self.

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## Irfan Baloch

Mr.Nair said:


> This is a sad incident, but any thing on pakistan will be related to india is not good
> 
> 1. Is india responsible for soviet occupation in afghanistan-No
> 2. Is india responsible for pakistan support to US against taliban-No
> 3. Is india responsible for zarb e azb-No
> 4. Is india responsible for taliban revenge for zarb e azb-No
> 
> These fanatics should be eliminated from all places including kashmir.
> 
> @Shamain @coffee_cup @WAJsal @Areesh



just a general note to Pakistanis and Indians
lets be a little tough and take the opposing / unfriendly comments on the chin. we both face losses due to terror/ insurgencies.

and we both take the opportunity to quietly or openly welcome such losses to each other (exceptions are civilian tragedies). and we must both accept that other side wont be that sentimental towards us. hey we are not enjoying the best of neighbourly relations anyway

so why complain? lets continue to post counter arguments but do so in a civilized manner and you can always follow the lead of your fellow country senior/ respected country posters.

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## Windjammer

A little message from PAF Boys.

So # Badaber was ur best effort ohkyyy ab hamari bari !!!!! Wait & Watch U can run but u cannot hide #PAF

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## Side-Winder

BSUO Asfandyar Bukhari - Sword of Honor 118 L/C

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## AtiF Malang

Peter Griffin said:


> RIP innocents
> 
> PS: I am seeing too much of 503 server not found. kindly fix this


me also


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## Muhammad Omar

For Namazi and Soldiers.....

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## Mr.Nair

ISPR, the Pakistan military's media wing, said at least 21 security officers and five civilians working at the Badaber Air Force base died and 14 fighters were killed in Friday morning's gun battle.

Pakistani Taliban storms airbase near Peshawar - Al Jazeera English


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## Star Wars

farhan_9909 said:


> He had it planned much more bloody but thanks to our security forces.



Whats the point of attacking a mosque if there is no high value target ?


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## senses

Star Wars said:


> Whats the point of attacking a mosque if there is no high value target ?


Frustration.

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## Mrc

Ok guys lets just clean up trolls and keep it professional...

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## AtiF Malang

ganesh623 said:


> We will not wait for you to ask.
> 
> Any attack on afghanistan, india will come forward to help our afghani brothers. Pakistan will have to face indian MKI's in afghanistan and hear from Indian Navy in west.



Stop bull s hit
we will do this we will do that jesay hum nay chorian pehni we hai 
if you are brave enough come face to face attack Pakistan and let see what happens . 
Attacking residential areas, School and other place are job of cowards .

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## senses

That was some heavy firefight, see the vehicles in back ground, all torched up.

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## Windjammer

Star Wars said:


> Whats the point of attacking a mosque if there is no high value target ?


Same as attacking Army Public School, kill anyone associated with armed forces.....without even considering that Mosque was also used by locals.

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## Side-Winder

Trained under the Command of none other than COAS Gen Raheel Himself.

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## AtiF Malang

loosing people like Capt. ( Shaheed) Asfandyar Bukhari to some illiterate people who claim to be Muslims but attack Masjids and Schools make my heart cry . 
Asfandyar loss is a great loss for Pakistan and his family . 
Why don't we use some gases which can make the attackers unconscious for long time and we can use in open air . 
in that way we can catch them by their balls and then hang them in major cities traffic signals

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## Windjammer

special said:


> while pakistan air force, navy and army are busy in joining different terrorist groups to fight against their country... a few mkis are enough for your unprofessional military


If fake encounters and wife swapping is your idea of professional then Pakistan army is indeed very unprofessional.
As for MKI, you will find they are only meant for something you call ....stupendous artistry.

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## vsdoc

Asfandyar is a Persian name.

A Zoroastrian Persian name.

Was he Pashtun?

@Spring Onion

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## Side-Winder

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153339272232663


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## Albatross

Areesh said:


> Well I won't try to stand out in hot weather on surveillance duty since that is not my duty. The person who was responsible for this duty failed miserably. And no I am not going to cut my establishment any slack since they have already taken too much time to get their act right. And even after that they are failing to these cavemen. If even after all the big claims by our COAS, 13 heavily armed terrorists can enter a sensitive area and can massacre 20 Pakistanis then I am not going to give any respect to my army on their failures. Our army has failed. we should accept that. ISI has failed. PAF has failed. PN has failed. And there is no end to this failure. My military and my security establishment is either too incompetent or either too ignorant to learn from such attacks. They are busy playing to the gallery. They are just working to save their image then saving Pakistan and Pakistanis from these beasts.
> 
> So simply accept that fact that military su8ks balls when it comes to this TTP menace. And start asking them questions since they need to answer a lot of questions about their failures. Those tweets by Mr Asim are simply not enough.


 
Very childish and baseless argument no country in world is immune to such attacks by a few gun wielding rag tag militants .

They had it planned one group diverted the attention towards one side while others attacked the mosque they were having around 28 IED's and suicide jackets . Death toll could have been much worst had our troops not replied in timely and effective manner . But yes there is always room for improvement I feel there should have been more guards well dispersed around the Camp to make any such breach impossible as Peshawar is a sensitive location. But still your burst is not justified as the airforce guys died fighting and when bullets are fired both sides will have casualities and 13 heavily armed scumbags which attacked a mosque are for sure no muslims.

As Pm is there along with COAS, interior and defence ministers in the funeral prayer of martyrs its the first of its kind as normally it was used to be COAS alone which clearly shows military and civil admin are on one page now and we will see some major changes in Pakistan's approach towards Afghanistan and India .

Operation inside Afghanistan are quite possible and Indian consulates along Pakistani border which have nothing to do except create and support terrorists in Pakistan should be eliminated as well to destroy terrorists support network.

Pakistan has been dealing Afghanistan casually and brotherly but its high time to put them to their place and punish them for supporting indian nefarious designs against Pakistan.

One thing is sure though such attacks do unite us as a nation and make our resolve stronger to get what is ours and not let any foreign snakes play dirty games inside our country. And if you look back in last one decade we have come a long way to achieve the stability and security we have today and In Sha Allah things will keep moving in positive direction but we do need to give Kabul and delhi a firm shut up call.

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## MilSpec

Great job in eliminating all the terrorist scumbags, Condolences to all friends and family of the people who lost their lives, RIP

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## Star Wars

Did not one of the terrorists get to blow their vests ? ...nice job in that case..
BTW is the Mosque inside the compound of the base ?

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## Dalit

Sino Dragon said:


> We Chinese are standing alongside our Pakistan brothers in this time of grief. May the deceased RIH.



Thanks bro. Really appreciated.

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## Paksanity

From what I see from google, Masjid is located very near the boundary wall. It is a very small PAF camp and is surrounded by civillian populace. The road from where the attack came (Inquilab road) is a narrow road with civillian homes on one side and camp on the other. Defenders would have very less warning and Mosque was very close to the road. terrorists could have made inroads and damage could have been much worse.


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## Mrc

We have made long strides towards elimimnating terrorist from our soil...
It was not far when such attacks on mosques and churches were daily occurence...even several in one day...

Now since december this is only 3rd or 4th attack...

Day is not far till complete elimination...

Keep in mind there is no more a guerilla war situation ... only isolated attacks originating from afghanistan...
With time they will also die down

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## Peaceful Civilian

This incident was bound to happen after kamra incident when they choose holy night of 27 Ramadan when people were offering prayer. We didn't learn lesson from it. Again terrorist penetrated in mosque and they attacked on airforce personals. 
I have no doubt our soldiers fought hard, bravely but it was already late. Now, Terrorist always choose prayer time, they know that we are religious people and there are always few security hole left during this time. 
We should learn lesson, and keep security tight during prayer time and put ban on security personals for prayer in mosque during duty.

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## TaimiKhan

balixd said:


> with reference to Post # 67 by Indus Falcon I suggest you read 'The Bear Trap' on Afghan Jihad / Guerrilla Warfare , to further grasp the network of Tangos inside pakistan read 'Inside Al Qaeda & Taliban' by saleem shehzad - it takes time to bring in the stability & security,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Zarvan any idea who are these guys?? khasadar?? but thry have M4s :O



These guys are from the QRF of Frontier Constabulary. Don't confuse it with Frontier Corps

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## Shot-Caller

engineer saad said:


> I want to volunteer my self.


You're not the only one my friend.


ganesh623 said:


> We will not wait for you to ask.
> 
> Any attack on afghanistan, india will come forward to help our afghani brothers. Pakistan will have to face indian MKI's in afghanistan and hear from Indian Navy in west.


Look at this spiderman . I bet if he hears a G3 shot his hearing would be gone for a couple of weeks.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Now , news channels saying 29 died in this incident. RIP.....
It was successful attack by terrorist and we fail to provide security during prayer time. Allah can't help in this situation.
You should not leave security hole at any time.


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## Star Wars

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Now , news channels saying 29 died in this incident. RIP.....



13 terrorists + 16 personal ..

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## batmannow

A very brutal response from a coward enemy who is very pi$$ed off on PAF?
Why ?
I think , they been confirmed from their friend that they are selling Pakistan their hitech SU-35?
Raw has sent this message from the AID of their DOGS hidden in the mountains & been called as TTp ?


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## Dubious

Farah Sohail said:


> Why is this low life human being @Rauf Lala not being banned?


Hum par Azaab ban ker aya hai to test our patience ignore the attention seeker


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## batmannow

Star Wars said:


> 13 terrorists + 16 personal ..


Personal were targets ?
Terrorists were not , but later they find themselves dancing in the hell , sent by OUR elite forces ?


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## Star Wars

batmannow said:


> Personal were targets ?
> Terrorists were not , but later they find themselves dancing in the hell , sent by OUR elite forces ?



His post looked like 29 of them were from the base excluding the terrorist so just corrected it, 
as for the terrorists "rest in piss"

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## Yousafzai_M

Its just a reminder that the war is far from over. RIP !

On a side note, how did this happen yet again? there have been several attacks on military bases and there are security lapses, I don't get it. 

Taliban have their *** burning so they are obviously desperate to do anything that would help boost their morale.

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## Shot-Caller

Shamain said:


> Indians kee bravery kya hai?? For months they fought 71 battle as a hidden enemy ,then at our weakest point invaded our terrirtory which had no land link/corridor connecting it with country's mainland. Yeh qoum cowards kee tarah jeeti hui wars pay khush ho saktee hai inki yehi auqat hai,.
> 
> And btw they always forget that 71 war brought millions of bengali refugees to india , same refugees that these pansies now curse today and also that they lost many of their own armymen and many became pows for fighting a war for a 'foreign territory' called bangladesh. Now same bengalis spit on indians' faces.
> 
> Even mercenaries are given more respect than what is shown for indian forces.


Please check my new thread in members club I've had enough of this crap.

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## Kompromat

balixd said:


> @Horus, any idea who are the guys with blurred out faces???



Snipers


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## Windjammer

A bit off-topic but these days the Air Chief supports army types of fatigues.


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## Mrc

Mistakes or lapses are not a problem...we are human..but we should learn from lapses... that makes us better humans...

How a car without number plate managed to get in city? 

Attackers did not come directly from afghanistan .. where did they stay? 
This attack is similar to peshawar aps attack.. what preventive measures can be taken for future?

This incidence need to be forensically analysed...
Decapitation strikes using drones in afghanistan?? Leadership needs to be killed as well...

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## Hulk

Areesh said:


> Ghatiya performance by our security and intelligence forces. They managed to kill 16 of ours. It doesn't matter that we responded very quickly or not. They managed to get to their place of attack unchecked and they achieved what they wanted. Lakh lanat on our security and intelligence apparatus.


I think you have been to unkind on them. They are the ones facing bullets and I am sure nobody does a lackluster work when their life is at stake.

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## nForce

Shamain said:


> Indians kee bravery kya hai?? For months they fought 71 battle as a hidden enemy ,then at our weakest point invaded our terrirtory which had no land link/corridor connecting it with country's mainland. Yeh qoum cowards kee tarah jeeti hui wars pay khush ho saktee hai inki yehi auqat hai,.
> 
> And btw they always forget that 71 war brought millions of bengali refugees to india , same refugees that these pansies now curse today and also that they lost many of their own armymen and many became pows for fighting a war for a 'foreign territory' called bangladesh. Now same bengalis spit on indians' faces.
> 
> Even mercenaries are given more respect than what is shown for indian forces.


took a leaf out of your book from what Pakistani army tried to do in '65. Actions cannot go without consequences.

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## Albatross

Hear from 4:30 onwards how Indian NSA is admitting role in supporting TTP . We need to adopt a full offensive do or die approach now as these coward banyas should be taught some lessons now. They have forgotten we are the same blood who ruled them for hundred of years I respect some sensible Indians on PDF and in real life but mostly they are illiterate and extremists and have chosen a PM lately of their kind . Its time we tell them who we are.

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## Dil Pakistan

I am pretty sure these are UZBEKS.

Look at their shiny new white shoes. There are many pictures of these Uzbecks in this attire.

Karachi airport attack few weeks before the start of Zarb-i-Azb; dead terrorists had same shoes and they were Uzbeks.

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## Burhan Wani

Horus said:


> Snipers


 looks like Dragunov.


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## Dubious

airuah said:


> this might be a false flag operation by Pakistan to show that it is a victim of terror and get some free goodies from the US


seriously you people have been raring this thing since 2010?


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## black-hawk_101

I think this is the high time.

For PAF, it's time to move JF-17s, F-7PGs to Punjab and Sindh and send Mirages to KPK-FATA-Balochistan.
Mirages are designed to handle such situations, both of the Mirage-III-Vs.


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## Osama Ali_16

I strongly condemn the attack on airbase but can somebody tell me that when did this happen and what were the events of attack and what role did the ssg commandos play in the operation?


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## Dubious

Dil Pakistan said:


> I am pretty sure these are UZBEKS.
> 
> Look at their shiny new white shoes. There are many pictures of these Uzbecks in this attire.
> 
> Karachi airport attack few weeks before the start of Zarb-i-Azb; dead terrorists had same shoes and they were Uzbeks.


shoes could have been bought from any mass producer selling to many people!


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## Osama Ali_16

I strongly condemn the attack on airbase but can somebody tell me that when did this happen and what were the events of attack and what role did the ssg commandos play in the operation?


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## Mrc

Eventually fireign financiers of these terrorists will also need to be tackled


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## Osama Ali_16

They be from Daeesh i think!


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## black-hawk_101

I think Pakistan should start using its old short range missiles in KPK-FATA-Balochistan. Also, China should supply their own old short range missiles to Pakistan.

I think PN also has many old short range missiles which can be used with P-3Cs.


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## Dr Gupta

Looks like a blow back from the Pakistani military operations. Drone strike was also conducted a few hours later by US perhaps trying to target them? RIP to the dead soldiers.


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## Manticore

Dont respond to troll posts. Only report them--- your responses actually derailed the thread by 5 pages


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## Irfan Baloch

request to all posters NOT to quote the troll posts. you might get warnings too. 
I know how some of you work .. please don't push your luck by on purpose quoting a controversial posts.

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## Irfan Baloch

Windjammer said:


> Same as attacking Army Public School, kill anyone associated with armed forces.....without even considering that Mosque was also used by locals.


for them everyone is the enemy

we must stop confusing them as Muslims or sentimental towards who is praying, unarmed, old, male , female, child... they come to kill and cause chaos .. simple.. thats what they are trained by their planners foreign or domestic.


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## Pak_Track

Super Falcon said:


> Can we try to catch these basterd alive with tranqulizer sniper rather than killing them so we can extract their fundings and hidouts
> 
> Pakistan should atleast put one marksman with special tranqulizer sniper gun or shock pistol or gas csnestor etc to catch these pigs and extract bigger pigs names location etc


Tranq darts can still kill people.


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## Devil Soul



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## TaimiKhan

vsdoc said:


> Any idea what they were after then sir?
> 
> Aircraft (like in the Karachi attack) are high value targets.
> 
> What could they have been after here? And based on my understanding of such attacks, 13 attackers is not a small operation.
> 
> They must have been after SOME asset ....



Its seems they just wanted to kill the people. Had they been able to kill a hundred or so, i think their aim would have been achieved. There was no asset at APS Peshawar, but they attacked just to kill. 

Its not always after some asset, in desperation even killing loads of people is something of high importance to them.

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## HRK

balixd said:


> @Horus, any idea who are the guys with blurred out faces???


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## Irfan Baloch

Windjammer said:


> Same as attacking Army Public School, kill anyone associated with armed forces.....without even considering that Mosque was also used by locals.


for them everyone is the enemy

we must stop confusing them as Muslims or sentimental towards who is praying, unarmed, old, male , female, child... they come to kill and cause chaos .. simple.. thats what they are trained by their planners foreign or domestic.


Areesh said:


> What a waste. Died for nothing.


what do you mean?
why you say died for nothing? was he killed cheaply? was he one of the people praying in the mosque? if he died in the line of duty then its not a waste. thats what a soldier is trained for to fight and death is a occupational hazard

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## Devil Soul

Funeral prayers for Badaber martyrs.

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## The Vicious Kind

Its unfortunate to see some deluded members nitpicking an incident that led to the loss of precious lives .We are in a state of war and will be for some time.
There has been a substantial improvement in the overall security situation , there is no doubt about that .A couple of years ago , we saw ttp carrying out attacks like the one today , routinely, almost every month. Now it has become much more difficult for them , this attack came after they failed to carry one out in Kamra.

Not only has the frequency of their attacks decreased , but the lethality of their attacks has also been undermined.But there is still much work to be done here. Lets no get ahead of ourselves.

1.After Shawal op, we have to clear South Punjab .We also need to expedite work on the madrasa reforms ,so we can subvert their facilitators. 

2.Then we have to preemptively eradicate the threat from the provinces of Kunar ,Paktia and Nurisatan in Afghanistan .That is where the command and control network of TTP resides.

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## coffee_cup

On the positive side, relatively speaking, it was a failed attack.

I mean all the *13* terrorists being killed. In the past only one of these Indian sponsored suicidal scums would spread havoc resulting in 100s of deaths.

So kudos to our security forces and we must embrace ourselves for further attacks as well. Vigilance in the neighborhood is need of the hour. Anyone who gives any kind of support to these terrorists must be made an example! The local and foreigners alike!


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## Devil Soul

*DG ISPR Asim Bajwa reveals that BadaberAttack was planned and launched from Afghanistan, masterminds r in Afghanistan enjoying immunity*

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## Irfan Baloch

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> View attachment 257923
> View attachment 257924
> View attachment 257925
> View attachment 257926
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> View attachment 257940
> *


Asma Jhangir's missing persons ...
glad that they are killed otherwise Ch Iftikhars love child judges would have suspended their sentences



Devil Soul said:


> *DG ISPR Asim Bajwa reveals that BadaberAttack was planned and launched from Afghanistan, masterminds r in Afghanistan enjoying immunity*


he needs to provide some proof rather than speaking like a TV host.

if he is so convinced then share more details about how he knows and what is the location of the planners/ directors inside Afghanistan.

SSG teams should be sent accross the border to gather evidence and best to bring one of such planners back. something which will be irrefutable and hard to dodge by any alleged foreign handler state or non-state actor/ director

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## Bratva

TaimiKhan said:


> Its seems they just wanted to kill the people. Had they been able to kill a hundred or so, i think their aim would have been achieved. There was no asset at APS Peshawar, but they attacked just to kill.
> 
> Its not always after some asset, in desperation even killing loads of people is something of high importance to them.



There main plane was to attack kamra base but couldn't went through with it due to high security 

If I'm not wrong 15-16 out of 20 casualties occured in Mosque attack. When bastards opened fire and lob grenade on people praying Fajar Prayer

1 QRF captain. 3 PAF technicians and 1 guard died during the fighting

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## Irfan Baloch

The Vicious Kind said:


> I
> There has been a substantial improvement in the overall security situation , there is no doubt about that .A couple of years ago , we saw ttp carrying out attacks like the one today , routinely, almost every month. Now it has become much more difficult for them , this attack came after they failed to carry one out in Kamra.


there is no security improvement. the terrorists only went in slumber and hiding due to the operation. they need to be pursued constantly in the cities and tribal areas and eliminated. their icon of terror and defiance Red Mosque administration still exists in the capital and the controversial cleric openly mocks the army and the state but no action is taken against him


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## Devil Soul




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## Irfan Baloch

Star Wars said:


> Did not one of the terrorists get to blow their vests ? ...nice job in that case..
> BTW is the Mosque inside the compound of the base ?


yup thats the thing. although they managed to kill the worshippers in large number

this is something we (Indian/ Pakistani/ Afghans) most vulnerable .. when too many people are in a confined place. the only solution is prevention of such attacks otherwise when they reach their targeted temples, mosques or churches .. then its already too late because large innocent lives are lost.

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## TaimiKhan

Bratva said:


> There main plane was to attack kamra base but couldn't went through with it due to high security
> 
> If I'm not wrong 15-16 out of 20 casualties occured in Mosque attack. When bastards opened fire and lob grenade on people praying Fajar Prayer
> 
> 1 QRF captain. 3 PAF technicians and 1 guard died during the fighting



They always have multiple plans in the pipeline. Whatever is most feasible, they will do that. Had they really wanted to hit kamra, they would have done it, but from last few attacks it seems they are now just after killing people. The APS attack, then the attacks on Imambargah in Peshawar and another one, the attacks on Christian worshippers, all now suggest they just want to create maximum casualty, they don;t now wanna hit assets, soft targets.

Its a sign of desperation. They want to bring back the fear they used to have with bomb blasts, since that is now much hard to do, thus the easy way is send trained men from across border, arm them here and send them to a target to kill people.
Protecting soft targets is difficult when compared to hard targets.

We as of now don't know who these 16 people in the masjid were, how many civilians and how many military guys.

See latest news coming, 29 dead from our side with 23 from just air force, rest army and civilians.

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## monitor

Devil Soul said:


> *DG ISPR Asim Bajwa reveals that BadaberAttack was planned and launched from Afghanistan, masterminds r in Afghanistan enjoying immunity*


just talk cannot prove anything give avidence.

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## Devil Soul

Irfan Baloch said:


> Asma Jhangir's missing persons ...
> glad that they are killed otherwise Ch Iftikhars love child judges would have suspended their sentences
> 
> 
> he needs to provide some proof rather than speaking like a TV host.
> 
> if he is so convinced then share more details about how he knows and what is the location of the planners/ directors inside Afghanistan.
> 
> SSG teams should be sent accross the border to gather evidence and best to bring one of such planners back. something which will be irrefutable and hard to dodge by any alleged foreign handler state or non-state actor/ director





monitor said:


> just talk cannot prove anything give avidence.


DG ISPR says, “We have recordings which reveal the attack was controlled from Afghanistan.”
lets see when they make it public, which i hardly doubt

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## VCheng

Irfan Baloch said:


> there is no security improvement. the terrorists only went in slumber and hiding due to the operation. they need to be pursued constantly in the cities and tribal areas and eliminated. their icon of terror and defiance Red Mosque administration still exists in the capital and the controversial cleric openly mocks the army and the state but no action is taken against him



That is a basic problem with maintaining an effective defensive posture across a multitude of relatively soft targets. The bastards have to get lucky just once, but the effort and cost of being vigilant accrues constantly.

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## Spring Onion

Irfan Baloch said:


> he needs to provide some proof rather than speaking like a TV host.
> 
> if he is so convinced then share more details about how he knows and what is the location of the planners/ directors inside Afghanistan.
> 
> SSG teams should be sent accross the border to gather evidence and best to bring one of such planners back. something which will be irrefutable and hard to dodge by any alleged foreign handler state or non-state actor/ director



1. Since the call to made to claim responsibility for the attack has said to be made from Afghanistan 
2. Since Mansoor Omar or Omar Mansoor (whatever is the sequence) is said to be the mastermind of this attack and he is in Afghanistan
3 Their communication has been intercepted and the records has been obtained 

So these could be the basis for his statement . As far as sending SSGs to Afghanistan well even in mess the fact is Afghanistan is a sovereign country you cant just send your uniformed personnel to take someone out but yes if we can have a mutual pact

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## Shamain

TaimiKhan said:


> They always have multiple plans in the pipeline. Whatever is most feasible, they will do that. Had they really wanted to hit kamra, they would have done it, but from last few attacks it seems they are now just after killing people. The APS attack, then the attacks on Imambargah in Peshawar and another one, the attacks on Christian worshippers, all now suggest they just want to create maximum casualty, they don;t now wanna hit assets, soft targets.
> 
> Its a sign of desperation. They want to bring back the fear they used to have with bomb blasts, since that is now much hard to do, thus the easy way is send trained men from across border, arm them here and send them to a target to kill people.
> Protecting soft targets is difficult when compared to hard targets.
> 
> We as of now don't know who these 16 people in the masjid were, how many civilians and how many military guys.
> 
> See latest news coming, 29 dead from our side with 23 from just air force, rest army and civilians.


If tey wanted to mass kill ppl like they did in imambargah and church attack, they could have repeated it. They were able to get inside the city with all weaponry on their person without gettng caught, they could have gone to any part of the city and carried out he blasts IF their aim was to kill the civilians. Well no doubt they wnat to spread terror whether they attack civilian places or military installations.

But if we recall APS wasnt just a mass killing attack, there were many army officers whose kids were studying there and wives were working as teachers. Their aim was to cause emotional and psychological trauma to our forces who were fiercely engaged in zarb e azb clean up and hence dent their morales.

This incident seems exactly similar to APS except that this time they cudnt hurt anyone's family, kids, wife etc.


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## ravindra1455

Shamain said:


> If tey wanted to mass kill ppl like they did in imambargah and church attack, they could have repeated it. They were able to get inside the city with all weaponry on their person without gettng caught, they could have gone to any part of the city and carried out he blasts IF their aim was to kill the civilians. Well no doubt they wnat to spread terror whether they attack civilian places or military installations.
> 
> But if we recall APS wasnt just a mass killing attack, there were many army officers whose kids were studying there and wives were working as teachers. Their aim was to cause emotional and psychological trauma to our forces who were fiercely engaged in zarb e azb clean up and hence dent their morales.
> 
> This incident seems exactly similar to APS except that this time they cudnt hurt anyone's family, kids, wife etc.


PESHAWAR: At least 42 people, including 13 terrorists, were killed as the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) camp at Inqalab road in Peshawar's Badaber area came under attack by Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) militants early Friday.

rest in peace all soldier


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## Spring Onion

Irfan Baloch said:


> he needs to provide some proof rather than speaking like a TV host.
> 
> if he is so convinced then share more details about how he knows and what is the location of the planners/ directors inside Afghanistan.
> 
> SSG teams should be sent accross the border to gather evidence and best to bring one of such planners back. something which will be irrefutable and hard to dodge by any alleged foreign handler state or non-state actor/ director



1. Since the call made to claim responsibility for the attack has said to be made from Afghanistan
2. Since Mansoor Omar or Omar Mansoor (whatever is the sequence) is said to be the mastermind of this attack and he is in Afghanistan
3 Their communication has been intercepted and the records has been obtained

So these could be the basis for his statement . As far as sending SSGs to Afghanistan well even in mess the fact is Afghanistan is a sovereign country you cant just send your uniformed personnel to take someone out but yes if we can have a mutual pact


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## New World

why do I feel fishy fishy... whenever former/current terrorist sympathizer is arrested an attack on forces occur..


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## Bratva

Of the 29 dead, 16 PAF soldiers were killed in a mosque as they offered morning prayers. Seven other PAF soldiers were killed in a barrack near the mosque. “A captain died leading the counter-attack against raiders and two soldiers were also killed,” DG ISPR said.

Security officials said the attackers split into three groups after entering the camp, with two moving to a residential area.

The third group approached the mosque and sprayed worshippers with bullets as they prayed, killing at least 16 of them. It was not clear how many were civilians and how many were military personnel.

It was unclear if the 16 killed in the mosque at the Badaber air base were civilians or military, he added. “Terrorists entered camp at two points. Encounter began immediately,” Bajwa tweeted. The attackers “were contained within a close area. Meanwhile a group rushed to mosque, martyred 16 offering prayers.”


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## saurav

RIP to all martyred.


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## Albatross

vsdoc said:


> Sneak attacks and asymmetric warfare is always going to be the reality between two hostile neighbors armed with nukes which preclude a hot war.
> 
> Personally, I've been on PDF long enough not to feel bad or outraged when their guys (or gals) gloat at attacks on our soil.
> 
> Its par for the course.
> 
> Does not mean we should do the same.
> 
> But calling a spade a spade is part and parcel of a forum for discussion.
> 
> Which is how this entire brouhaha from the usual suspects started. Holier than thou.
> 
> Horus made a comment about Doval saab smirking. And I put things into perspective for Horus.
> 
> What is India going to gain from knocking down 16 people?
> 
> Would the NSA of a 1.25 billion strong nation spend 5 minutes of his time on such a hit?
> 
> If anything, a naval base type hit would be something which would warrant his attention.
> 
> My first post on the thread was exactly on the same track. When I asked Fatman about assets on the base attacked. Not that I expected him to answer if there were. But it explains the line of thought.
> 
> Unless there was a high value target expected to be there at the time of the attack, this was not a RAW sanctioned hit. Period.


 
There was a weapon depot next to Camp which if detonated would have caused greater damage you can see same on google map. Rest Pakistans stance on Kashmir was based on principles on which subcontinent was divided and no indian can logically refute kashmiries claim for self determination that Pakistan support.

But indian support for terror in Pakistan is merely based on the desire to weaken Pakistan to an extent where it is no more than an Indian colony like Bangladesh something they are failing in for decades and such attacks prove their desperation also keep in mind dying baloch rebel movement in balochistan so RAW and doval has to keep on doing something to make themselves feel relevant .

And here he is
"]

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## Spring Onion

Bratva said:


> Of the 29 dead, 16 PAF soldiers were killed in a mosque as they offered morning prayers. Seven other PAF soldiers were killed in a barrack near the mosque. “A captain died leading the counter-attack against raiders and two soldiers were also killed,” DG ISPR said.
> 
> Security officials said the attackers split into three groups after entering the camp, with two moving to a residential area.
> 
> The third group approached the mosque and sprayed worshippers with bullets as they prayed, killing at least 16 of them. It was not clear how many were civilians and how many were military personnel.
> 
> It was unclear if the 16 killed in the mosque at the Badaber air base were civilians or military, he added. “Terrorists entered camp at two points. Encounter began immediately,” Bajwa tweeted. The attackers “were contained within a close area. Meanwhile a group rushed to mosque, martyred 16 offering prayers.”



23 from PAF, 3 civilians, 3 pak army


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## Bratva

*PAF base attack planned in Afghanistan: DG ISPR*
By Web Desk
Published: September 18, 2015
80SHARES
SHARE TWEET EMAIL




PHOTO: AFP

Military spokesperson Major General Asim Bajwa said on Friday a Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) splinter group had planned, executed and operated the attack on Pakistan Air Force base in Peshawar from Afghanistan.

“We have recordings which reveal the attack was planned executed and controlled from Afghanistan,” DG ISPR said while addressing the media in Peshawar, hours after the attack which left 29 dead.

Read: At least 18 killed, including army captain, as militants attack PAF base in Peshawar

Confirming the death toll, DG ISPR said, “29 people, including an army captain and soldiers, were killed as Taliban gunmen stormed a Pakistan Air Force base in Peshawar.”

“*Around 5am, 13 to 14 militants entered the PAF base.”

“The militants came in a car and used rocket launchers to enter the gate and they divided into two groups. We effectively and instantly curtailed them.”

Elaborating on the attack, the military spokesperson said a quick reaction force reached within 10 minutes and ‘engaged’ the militants. He added that it is possible that the attackers had some sort of inside information.

“There was a mosque on the side and worshipers were waiting for theazaan, when one group attacked them. Sixteen people waiting to pray were killed and nine people doing wuzu were also killed.”

Bajwa added that the quick reaction force surrounded eight of the militants present in the mosque and killed them. “By 9:30am, all militants had been killed.”

Reiterating the resolve to eliminate terrorism, Bajwa said, “Operation Zarb-e-Azb is continuing and will until the elimination of the last terrorist.”*

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## Zarvan

Were all PAF soldiers or relatives ?


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## Irfan Baloch

Spring Onion said:


> . As far as sending SSGs to Afghanistan well even in mess the fact is Afghanistan is a sovereign country you cant just send your uniformed personnel to take someone out but yes if we can have a mutual pact


covert ops.. i am not saying we go there guns blazing with our flags
.. Afghanistan sovereignty is only within the close proximity of presidential palace in Kabul.

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## vsdoc

Albatross said:


> There was a weapon depot next to Camp which if detonated would have caused greater damage you can see same on google map. Rest Pakistans stance on Kashmir was based on principles on which subcontinent was divided and no indian can logically refute kashmiries claim for self determination that Pakistan support.
> 
> But indian support for terror in Pakistan is merely based on the desire to weaken Pakistan to an extent where it is no more than an Indian colony like Bangladesh something they are failing in for decades and such attacks prove their desperation also keep in mind dying baloch rebel movement in balochistan so RAW and doval has to keep on doing something to make themselves feel relevant .



I have yet to see any credible proof of Indian hand in terror in Pakistan.

This is not about principles. This is about national interests.

If you hit us here, we will hit you somewhere else. Harder. Disproportionately.

The days of knights in shining armor, carved lances, and white stallions are good for the story books.

Let me put forward a hypothetical scenario.

India killed the Kashmir insurgency by locking Pakistan up on its western borders.

India needed to extract its due pound of flesh for 26/11. It did. 

Now India felt it was enough. The red mist had gone. Blood for blood had been extracted. Kashmir was dead.

So India picked its foot off the pedal.

And what does India (and its new hardline leadership) find?

Pakistan basking in their "success" against their internal insurgencies. The sabres are unsheathed. Amrika is going. Now see how we will handle you. Afghanistan is lost. etc etc etc

Kashmir finds life again. 

What does India do? Does it allow things to slip back to the 80s and 90s?

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## RoadRunner401

Shamain said:


> If tey wanted to mass kill ppl like they did in imambargah and church attack, they could have repeated it. They were able to get inside the city with all weaponry on their person without gettng caught, they could have gone to any part of the city and carried out he blasts IF their aim was to kill the civilians. Well no doubt they wnat to spread terror whether they attack civilian places or military installations.
> 
> But if we recall APS wasnt just a mass killing attack, there were many army officers whose kids were studying there and wives were working as teachers. Their aim was to cause emotional and psychological trauma to our forces who were fiercely engaged in zarb e azb clean up and hence dent their morales.
> 
> This incident seems exactly similar to APS except that this time they coudnt hurt anyone's family, kids, wife etc.



Operation Zarb-e-Azb didn't start till after the Peshawar school massacre.


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## Spring Onion

Irfan Baloch said:


> covert ops.. i am not saying we go there guns blazing with our flags
> .. Afghanistan sovereignty is only within the close proximity of presidential palace in Kabul.



I would suggest we first take out the leadership of these terrorists and BLA in Pakistan and then we could consider such covert operations in Afghanistan.

As far as sovereignty of Afghanistan and its limitation is concerned well practically yes it is not beyond Kabul but also practically it is considered challenged by the entire country when attacked by any outsider so does the international community



Irfan Baloch said:


> covert ops.. i am not saying we go there guns blazing with our flags
> .. Afghanistan sovereignty is only within the close proximity of presidential palace in Kabul.



I would suggest we first take out the leadership of these terrorists and BLA in Pakistan and then we could consider such covert operations in Afghanistan.

As far as sovereignty of Afghanistan and its limitation is concerned well practically yes it is not beyond Kabul but also practically it is considered challenged by the entire country when attacked by any outsider so does the international community


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## I <3 PAK ARMY

R.I.P


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## Irfan Baloch

vsdoc said:


> I have yet to see any credible proof of Indian hand in terror in Pakistan.
> 
> This is not about principles. This is about national interests.
> 
> If you hit us here, we will hit you somewhere else. Harder. Disproportionately.
> 
> The days of knights in shining armor, carved lances, and white stallions are good for the story books.
> 
> Let me put forward a hypothetical scenario.
> 
> India killed the Kashmir insurgency by locking Pakistan up on its western borders.
> 
> India needed to extract its due pound of flesh for 26/11. It did.
> 
> Now India felt it was enough. The red mist had gone. Blood for blood had been extracted. Kashmir was dead.
> 
> So India picked its foot off the pedal.
> 
> And what does India (and its new hardline leadership) find?
> 
> Pakistan basking in their "success" against their internal insurgencies. The sabres are unsheathed. Amrika is going. Now see how we will handle you. Afghanistan is lost. etc etc etc
> 
> Kashmir finds life again.
> 
> What does India do? Does it allow things to slip back to the 80s and 90s?


good narration and this might be similar thinking on the Pakistani side too. India never took off the foot from the pedal.. instead. it increased the rhetoric and action specially when Indian forces are firing on the Pakistani villagers hundreds of miles away from Kashmir in the Punjab side along the international border. and mobilises its troops after every other year along the international border

Pakistani army has same right to celebrate "success" against the TTP / BLA terrorism just like Indian army has against the Kashmir insurgency
India managed to sabotage the initial Taliban/ US/ Afghan dialogue through back to back attacks on Kabul so touché.. we took the steam out of BLA terrorism and pushed the TTP command centre inside Afghanistan and got Americans to Drone the TTP hideouts inside Afghanistan which is a great achievement.

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## coffee_cup

vsdoc said:


> I have yet to see any credible proof of Indian hand in terror in Pakistan.
> 
> This is not about principles. This is about national interests.
> 
> If you hit us here, we will hit you somewhere else. Harder. Disproportionately.
> 
> The days of knights in shining armor, carved lances, and white stallions are good for the story books.
> 
> Let me put forward a hypothetical scenario.
> 
> India killed the Kashmir insurgency by locking Pakistan up on its western borders.
> 
> India needed to extract its due pound of flesh for 26/11. It did.
> 
> Now India felt it was enough. The red mist had gone. Blood for blood had been extracted. Kashmir was dead.
> 
> So India picked its foot off the pedal.
> 
> And what does India (and its new hardline leadership) find?
> 
> Pakistan basking in their "success" against their internal insurgencies. The sabres are unsheathed. Amrika is going. Now see how we will handle you. Afghanistan is lost. etc etc etc
> 
> Kashmir finds life again.
> 
> What does India do? Does it allow things to slip back to the 80s and 90s?




This dude is unbelivably delusional.

On one hand he is gloating about how India has extracted "its due pound of flesh" . And on the other hand he is asking for the credible evidence of Indian involvement ! Talk about living in denial!

What next? Demanding credible evidence of Indias support for cross-border terrorism via LTTE, Mukti Bahini etc?

Yeah right. He only Indians can do that - live in absolute denial!


It is time, Pakistan really works together with China to speed up the moral support to Khalistanis and Reds on the Indian North-East side. Let Indians whine everywhere around the world, it can not go on. Killing our childeren and civilians via their proxies and then expecting us to do nothing!!

Enough is enough!


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## Albatross

vsdoc said:


> This is not about principles. This is about national interests.


 
This is the only truth which broadly reflects Indian stance on Kashmir and is wrong on all accounts humanitarian or diplomatic. It would have served indian interests a lot better if you were given some hindu population areas in Sindh and Balochistan to get land access to Iran and Afghanistan but it didn't happen as the division was on religious lines and all muslim dominant areas were to be Pakistani and Kashmir was and still is 97% Muslims so it wasn't about interests in 47 but it indeed is now and will be dealt accordingly .

This indian psyche of " feeling powerful to do anything to serve indian interests regardless of any principles , moral or humane implications" will lead to her demise and you can pick history books if you have any to see what I mean no power no matter how much powerful was able to suppress people for long in entire human history and Kashmir was never dead and recent flying of Pakistani flags in Srinagar is proof of that . What your army has been doing there for decades those mothers whose innocent sons were martyred and young daughters raped will keep on giving birth to sons who will sacrifice their blood for freedom of their mother land.

Its getting off topic so lets keep it for some Kashmir related thread.

On topic I just posted Dovals video in my last post to show you how much involved india is in terror activities inside Pakistan.


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## vsdoc

coffee_cup said:


> This dude is unbelivably delusional.
> 
> On one hand he is gloating about how India has extracted "its due pound of flesh" . And on the other hand he is asking for the credible evidence of Indian involvement ! Talk about living in denial!
> 
> What next? Demanding credible evidence of Indias support for cross-border terrorism via LTTE, Mukti Bahini etc?
> 
> Yeah right. He only Indians can do that - live in absolute denial!
> 
> 
> It is time, Pakistan really works together with China to speed up the moral support to Khalistanis and Reds on the Indian North-East side. Let Indians whine everywhere around the world, it can not go on. Killing our childeren and civilians via their proxies and then expecting us to do nothing!!
> 
> Enough is enough!



In case you missed it, "dude", I did say lets consider a *hypothetical* situation.

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## Irfan Baloch

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That is a basic problem with maintaining an effective defensive posture across a multitude of relatively soft targets. The bastards have to get lucky just once, but the effort and cost of being vigilant accrues constantly.


since APS tragedy, our best example of mutual cooperation with Americans was when they opened the direct front against TTP and lead the deadly attacks by scoring multiple kills via drones strikes inside Afghanistan.

since 911.. there has been no more attacks on mainland America because Uncle Sam went after them in the entire world.

the random shootings by lone wolves failed to faze the American resolve. we wasted years bickering if we are a rented army or if its our war or not and the terrorists had to keep on killing us until they killed hundreds of children to shake us to get some sense

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## Areesh

Irfan Baloch said:


> what do you mean?
> why you say died for nothing? was he killed cheaply? was he one of the people praying in the mosque? if he died in the line of duty then its not a waste. thats what a soldier is trained for to fight and death is a occupational hazard



Yes he died cheaply. Yes his death is a waste. He died because his own military and his own country don't give a rat's *** about him or his life or death. He died because his military is more busy in dramai bazian than actual work. He died because he was made a scapegoat by his superiors so that they can do drama on next 6 sept or youm e shuhda.

He died because his military is happy with the "Achievement" that they killed all 13 of those f*ckers. Like those rats ever came with idea to go back alive. He died for a military that failed to avoid his or 28 other Pakistani's death. I have said before. We don't need more shaheed. This country doesn't need more shaheed. This country needs ghazis who can slaughter our enemies in worst possible painful manner. Who can comeback alive with heads of their enemies. Enough of this shaheed BS. This is a country or a museum to collect shaheeds.

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## RoadRunner401

Irfan Baloch said:


> covert ops.. i am not saying we go there guns blazing with our flags
> .. Afghanistan sovereignty is only within the close proximity of presidential palace in Kabul.



Major General Asim Bajwa said that it is possible that the attackers had some sort of inside information. Having known this attacking sovereign nation or blaming another is futile, as the terrorist and their sympathizer's walk among us freely.


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## coffee_cup

vsdoc said:


> In case you missed it, "dude", I did say lets consider a *hypothetical* situation.



What is hypothetical about Indian support for cross-border terrorism?

LTTE, Mukti Bahini, BLA, TTP.

What is hypothetical about that?


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## Spring Onion

mike2000 is back said:


> Im sure all this also happens because Pakistan government has been oppressing its muslims population. The west/U.S must also be behind it. @IT-IR, @atatwolf et al. Isnt it?
> 
> Anyway RIP to the innocent civilians.




what was your ealier ID that has been banned?

anyway the Pakistani government is not backing their terrorism against the west and US that is why they are targeting Pakistanis simple as that.


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## Kharral

Inna LILLAH e wa Inna ELAIH e rajioon

How long are we going to let the very best of ours get killed by men from Middle Ages ?
What are the authorities going to tell these men's families when they know the attack originated from Afghanistan & who planned it & what's their response going to be ? 

Pakistan has 3 options here

1 Continue with the status quoue & let the brave & the best of us killed. 

2 Target TTP leadership in Afghanistan itself weather through Planes or boots on ground 
Or

3 Pay a group in Afghanistan to do some thing about TTP leadership in Afghanistan ( both the government & AT or any other group for that matter ) 

This was a major attack. 
This wasn't a soft target by any means. 
Even at kamra & mehran the number of attackers was less than 13. The logistics is the most crucial part in such attacks. As long as the cities aren't cleaned of sympathisers & abbettors, such attacks would continue to happen. Peshawar & it's adjoining areas need a Rizwan Akhter of its own, some one who would profile the city in detail, it's mosques, it's maddressah's it's school & colleges, it's business men & labourers. There has to be a detailed census followed with a ruthless operation like Karachi.


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## Areesh

indianrabbit said:


> I think you have been to unkind on them. They are the ones facing bullets and I am sure nobody does a lackluster work when their life is at stake.



They have done a pathetic job. they failed their oath and this country. 29 Pakistanis who lost their lives today are a proof of it. The mockery that we faced today in front of whole is a proof of it.


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## vsdoc

coffee_cup said:


> What is hypothetical about Indian support for cross-border terrorism?
> 
> LTTE, Mukti Bahini, BLA, TTP.
> 
> What is hypothetical about that?



There is no proof.

Show the world some credible proof. Dude.

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## Dr Gupta

Albatross said:


> This is the only truth which broadly reflects Indian stance on Kashmir and is wrong on all accounts humanitarian or diplomatic. It would have served indian interests a lot better if you were given some hindu population areas in Sindh and Balochistan to get land access to Iran and Afghanistan but it didn't happen as the division was on religious lines and all muslim dominant areas were to be Pakistani and Kashmir was and still is 97% Muslims so it wasn't about interests in 47 but it indeed is now and will be dealt accordingly .
> 
> This indian psyche of " feeling powerful to do anything to serve indian interests regardless of any principles , moral or humane implications" will lead to her demise and you can pick history books if you have any to see what I mean no power no matter how much powerful was able to suppress people for long in entire human history and Kashmir was never dead and recent flying of Pakistani flags in Srinagar is proof of that . What your army has been doing there for decades those mothers whose innocent sons were martyred and young daughters raped will keep on giving birth to sons who will sacrifice their blood for freedom of their mother land.
> 
> Its getting off topic so lets keep it for some Kashmir related thread.
> 
> *On topic I just posted Dovals video in my last post to show you how much involved india is in terror activities inside Pakistan.*




Pity you never watched his videos as he stated if Pakistan conduct another 26/11 attack that is when we will use proxies but so far that has not happened.

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## Albatross

Dr Gupta said:


> Pity you never watched his videos as he stated if Pakistan conduct another 26/11 attack that is when we will use proxies but so far that has not happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pity you never watched his videos as he stated if Pakistan conduct another 26/11 attack that is when we will use proxies but so far that has not happened.


 watch this video 4 30 onward
"]


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## VCheng

Irfan Baloch said:


> since APS tragedy, our best example of mutual cooperation with Americans was when they opened the direct front against TTP and lead the deadly attacks by scoring multiple kills via drones strikes inside Afghanistan.
> 
> since 911.. there has been no more attacks on mainland America because Uncle Sam went after them in the entire world.
> 
> the random shootings by lone wolves failed to faze the American resolve. we wasted years bickering if we are a rented army or if its our war or not and the terrorists had to keep on killing us until they killed hundreds of children to shake us to get some sense



It is true that Pakistan may have started its response quite late in the game, but the fact that it has indeed started to deal with the menace effectively is important. It may take some time to resolve it completely, but the improvement is already visible. A few attacks here and there are to be expected, and will serve only to further steel the national resolve, I am quite sure. As you suggested above, conducting a few targeted covert ops to add an offensive edge while maintaining a good defensive posture with Pakistan might be the way to go forward.


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## Metanoia

Few important questions which need to answered here in the wake of this terrible incident: 

1) If the attacks were planned in Afghanistan, did the attackers infiltrated from Afghanistan or they were a sleeper cell in Pakistan?

2) If they infiltrated from Afghanistan, this once again points towards our inability and incompetency in securing our borders. For how long shall we allow this?

3) If they were operating within Pakistan, then perhaps there was a major intelligence failure on our part? Especially considering that the attack took place in Peshawer which is a major city in KPK.


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## Dr Gupta

Albatross said:


> watch this video 4 30 onward
> "]




I seen that video many times, Doval is saying India should work on a offensive manner 'if' there is another 26/11 and so far no attack has occured.

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## Irfan Baloch

Metanoia said:


> Few important questions which need to answered here in the wake of this terrible incident:
> 
> 1) If the attacks were planned in Afghanistan, did the attackers infiltrated from Afghanistan or they were a sleeper cell in Pakistan?
> 
> 2) If they infiltrated from Afghanistan, this once again points towards our inability and incompetency in securing our borders. For how long shall we allow this?
> 
> 3) If they were operating within Pakistan, then perhaps there was a major intelligence failure on our part? Especially considering that the attack took place in Peshawer which is a major city in KPK.


in every aspect the failure was to prevent them whether the planners and/ or attackers were inside or outside of Pakistan
dont forget the people that have given them food and shelter. they live near you and me and hide dark secrets among them

there are scumbags who are completely sold to takfiri ideology and are waiting for Daesh Caliphate while they live among as as Clerics, teachers, doctors, shop keepers and businessmen

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## coffee_cup

vsdoc said:


> There is no proof.
> 
> Show the world some credible proof. Dude.



Mumbai was an inside Indian job.

Now show credible proof in International Court of Justice if it was otherwise.


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## Metanoia

Irfan Baloch said:


> in every aspect the failure was to prevent them whether the planners and/ or attackers were inside or outside of Pakistan
> dont forget the people that have given them food and shelter. they live near you and me and hide dark secrets among them
> 
> there are scumbags who are completely sold to takfiri ideology and are waiting for Daesh Caliphate while they live among as as Clerics, teachers, doctors, shop keepers and businessmen



I have a solution to that. There are practical frameworks by the Kurds and to some extent the Egyptians and the Jordanians. The most effective framework by far to keep this ideology at bay is by the Kurds. We can perhaps discuss it sometime.

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## Irfan Baloch

Areesh said:


> . This country needs ghazis who can slaughter our enemies in worst possible painful manner. Who can comeback alive with heads of their enemies. Enough of this shaheed BS. This is a country or a museum to collect shaheeds.


like I said.. death is an occupational hazard in this line of job. yes you are talking my language by insisting on being a killer rather than a shaheed but .. like I said... this cant be helped.
blame gaming doesnt help.

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## Foxtrot Delta

*My guess is we have to start targeting Terrorists deep inside Afganistan with drones initially , with permission from afghanistan and allied forces there, i think if we try, they shall agree and let us pre empt terrorists within afghan borders since they cant seem to act on time we dont have to go all the way inside afghanistan just buffer safe zones near border. A sad and provocative attack again they should get what they are asking for. *

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## coffee_cup

Albatross said:


> watch this video 4 30 onward
> "]



Don't waste your time mate.

For Indians, this Bhangi Ajit Devil in the video is talking about helping children with cancer in Afghanistan.

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## Areesh

Albatross said:


> Very childish and baseless argument no country in world is immune to such attacks by a few gun wielding rag tag militants .
> 
> They had it planned one group diverted the attention towards one side while others attacked the mosque they were having around 28 IED's and suicide jackets . Death toll could have been much worst had our troops not replied in timely and effective manner . But yes there is always room for improvement I feel there should have been more guards well dispersed around the Camp to make any such breach impossible as Peshawar is a sensitive location. But still your burst is not justified as the airforce guys died fighting and when bullets are fired both sides will have casualities and 13 heavily armed scumbags which attacked a mosque are for sure no muslims.
> 
> As Pm is there along with COAS, interior and defence ministers in the funeral prayer of martyrs its the first of its kind as normally it was used to be COAS alone which clearly shows military and civil admin are on one page now and we will see some major changes in Pakistan's approach towards Afghanistan and India .
> 
> Operation inside Afghanistan are quite possible and Indian consulates along Pakistani border which have nothing to do except create and support terrorists in Pakistan should be eliminated as well to destroy terrorists support network.
> 
> Pakistan has been dealing Afghanistan casually and brotherly but its high time to put them to their place and punish them for supporting indian nefarious designs against Pakistan.
> 
> One thing is sure though such attacks do unite us as a nation and make our resolve stronger to get what is ours and not let any foreign snakes play dirty games inside our country. And if you look back in last one decade we have come a long way to achieve the stability and security we have today and In Sha Allah things will keep moving in positive direction but we do need to give Kabul and delhi a firm shut up call.



I don't know what sh!t you guys are smoking. I don't what sh!t military of this country is smoking. I don't know what sh!t whole nation is smoking. What you mean by that death toll could have been worst. It is already f*cking worst. 29 are dead. Dozens are injured. God knows how many more would die in hospitals. You think death of 29 Pakistanis is acceptable? You think anything under 100 is acceptable? This is bullsh!t. This country is ruled by jokers. Joker who don't have f*cking balls to mine and fence Afghan border. Jokers who have no balls to take action against TTP rats in Afghanistan. Jokers who are all bakwas and no action. Jokers who are more interested in some peace process in that brother aka Afghanistan while Pakistanis keep dying at home. The jokers who provide wheat, rice and all kind of supplies so that Afghans can eat them and then abuse Pakistan in return. Jokers who don't even have balls to send back Afghans crawling on our land like leeches.

Time for shut up calls have already passed. It is action or more useless shaheeds like we keep getting after every incident. And this would happen only if we start asking this military some hard questions. Enough with holy cow cr@p. Enough with guardians of the nation bullsh!t. Enough with the best intelligence agency and best military in the world stories. Time for questions and answers to those questions by military and ISPR. We don't need Asim Bajwa's tweets. We need answers from them in a press conference or in a live TV show.

I don't care whether PM is with COAS or not. And I am sure those scumbags in Afghanistan don't care either. If these two can't take any action putting all diplomatic and ethical norms aside then both of them are nothing but hijras for me and this nation.

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## Albatross

Dr Gupta said:


> I seen that video many times, Doval is saying India should work on a offensive manner 'if' there is another 26/11 and so far no attack has occured.


 At exact 4 55 he is saying we will tackle Taliban the way we want proving RAW has links with Talibans at all level then he is saying Taliban will listen to Deobandi mean Raw has also moles in that Jamaat what does it all shows ?

And this is the one released by ISI for public info I am sure they have lot more classified ones so don't play innocent we all know its Raw behind TTP through its front men .


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## Areesh

Irfan Baloch said:


> like I said.. death is an occupational hazard in this line of job. yes you are talking my language by insisting on being a killer rather than a shaheed but .. like I said... this cant be helped.
> blame gaming doesnt help.



Death is hazard all the time. You can die while posting on this forum. That doesn't mean you start glamorizing and romanticizing death. This is what we do. We romanticize death. We propagate this bullcr@p of dying for your country. While more needed is making your opponent dying for his country or whatever ideology he believes in.

There is no bigger failure than this military that we have. And worst part is nobody is even questioning it for its failures.

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## Side-Winder

A number of Intelligence Based Operations have had been conducted upon info provided by People from General Population which is Appreciable, We Encourage more people to come forward and fascillitate Law Enforcement Agencies in the elimination of Terrorists and their Abettors within our Social Fabric - DG ISPR

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## Zarvan

Areesh said:


> I don't know what sh!t you guys are smoking. I don't what sh!t military of this country is smoking. I don't know what sh!t whole nation is smoking. What you mean by that death toll could have been worst. It is already f*cking worst. 29 are dead. Dozens are injured. God knows how many more would die in hospitals. You think death of 29 Pakistanis is acceptable? You think anything under 100 is acceptable? This is bullsh!t. This country is ruled by jokers. Joker who don't have f*cking balls to mine and fence Afghan border. Jokers who have no balls to take action against TTP rats in Afghanistan. Jokers who are all bakwas and no action. Jokers who are more interested in some peace process in that brother aka Afghanistan while Pakistanis keep dying at home. The jokers who provide wheat, rice and all kind of supplies so that Afghans can eat them and then abuse Pakistan in return. Jokers who don't even have balls to send back Afghans crawling on our land like leeches.
> 
> Time for shut up calls have already passed. It is action or more useless shaheeds like we keep getting after every incident. And this would happen only if we start asking this military some hard questions. Enough with holy cow cr@p. Enough with guardians of the nation bullsh!t. Enough with the best intelligence agency and best military in the world stories. Time for questions and answers to those questions by military and ISPR. We don't need Asim Bajwa's tweets. We need answers from them in a press conference or in a live TV show.
> 
> I don't care whether PM is with COAS or not. And I am sure those scumbags in Afghanistan care either. If these two can't take any action putting all diplomatic and ethical norms aside then both of them are nothing but hijras for me and this nation.


We would make you COAS for one year, you would know How capable you are !!!! Mr if it would have been that easy than USA would have defeated and destroyed Afghan Taliban by now Turkey would have destroyed PKK and India would have destroyed LET not to forget drug mafias vs South American governments. It's long painful war with no easy end.

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## coffee_cup

vsdoc said:


> Here's an inside tip.
> 
> The "proof" charade is for the gullible goras.
> 
> We brothers know well how things work here don't we?



Screw you for using that laughter smiley.

Fully knowing that we Pakistanis have not even buried our dead and you already are showing your real pathetic ugly Indian face!

It is Indians like you, who we despise and can never forgive!

Have some shame!

@Manticore Do we really have to read this from this pathetic person?

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## Metanoia

Areesh said:


> Death is hazard all the time. You can die while posting on this forum. That doesn't mean you start glamorizing and romanticizing death. This is what we do. We romanticize death. We propagate this bullcr@p of dying for your country. While more needed is making your opponent dying for his country or whatever ideology he believes in.
> 
> There is no bigger failure than this military that we have. And worst part is nobody is even questioning it for its failures.



You only have General Raheel Sharif...one of the only few group men with a holistic approach towards terrorism and other related issues Pakistan is facing. 

Your general "awam", and the politicians etc. probably don't even know how to spell holistic. Majority of the Pakistanis have a memory equivalent to that of a fish...which means that although they can move on after even the most terrible of tragedies...they are unable to learn and evolve from their past experiences. 

We need proper research sir. I agree with you that this has really turned into a joke...10 to 40 casualties is considered a success.


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## vsdoc

coffee_cup said:


> Screw you





@Manticore 

Cheers, Doc

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## Irfan Baloch

Areesh said:


> Death is hazard all the time. You can die while posting on this forum. That doesn't mean you start glamorizing and romanticizing death. This is what we do. We romanticize death. We propagate this bullcr@p of dying for your country. *While more needed is making your opponent dying for his country or whatever* ideology he believes in.
> 
> There is no bigger failure than this military that we have. And worst part is nobody is even questioning it for its failures.


thankyou

that's exactly the mentality we need.
now that we are in agreement please pull the thumb out of your arse you appear in great pain

so much so that you fail to see my point. I am not wishing death for our soldiers instead I am wishing them victory.. but what is done is done.. so stop pissing on their corpses because you are upset.

now let me explain to you what occupational hazard means because I have lived it. we have temporary graves by our trenches and bunkers along the LoC.. we are not holding our dicks there we have our fingers on the MG's and 12.7s triggers and we know just like we will shoot at our opponent .. so shall he. and its a given whenever there is an exchange of fire there are bound to be casualties.. its a not a comic story its a reality yes jazba e Shahadat is over cooked and over blown by some Pakistanis but its not as grave as you are suggesting.

look at those pictures of the pigs lying on the ground by the walls or on the roads.. see that? they achieved cheap shot through surprise but they met their end too when they got shot back.



now please pull that thumb out and calm down.

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## Areesh

Zarvan said:


> We would make you COAS for a week you would know How capable you are !!!! Mr if it would have been that easy than USA would have defeated and destroyed Afghan Taliban by now Turkey would have destroyed PKK and India would have destroyed LET not to forget drug mafias vs South American governments. It's long painful war with no easy end.



wake up kiddo. America has defeated Taliban. There is no terror incident after 9/11 in America. They don't care about what is happening in Afghanistan as long as they are safe. They can even nuke Afghanistan completely and eliminate mighty Afghan race from this world and won't even take a burp after it. And India has defeated LET. There are more people who die by falling down from their stairs in india than those who are killed by LET. Turkey has beaten PKK. It is bombing PKK hideouts in Iraq and Syria and is not only collecting dead bodies like us.

And those South American governments have also beaten those mafias. Brazil is one of the biggest economies for a reason. Wake up kid. It might be all normal for you to see your countrymen dying since you are a mullah too who believes in conquering Delhi. but the fact with jokers ruling this country, there is no chance of us even conquering our own country. And if I would have been COAS and some similar kind of sh!t would have happened and I wouldn't have done anything then I would have simply resigned.

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## Albatross

Areesh said:


> I don't know what sh!t you guys are smoking. I don't what sh!t military of this country is smoking. I don't know what sh!t whole nation is smoking. What you mean by that death toll could have been worst. It is already f*cking worst. 29 are dead. Dozens are injured. God knows how many more would die in hospitals. You think death of 29 Pakistanis is acceptable? You think anything under 100 is acceptable? This is bullsh!t. This country is ruled by jokers. Joker who don't have f*cking balls to mine and fence Afghan border. Jokers who have no balls to take action against TTP rats in Afghanistan. Jokers who are all bakwas and no action. Jokers who are more interested in some peace process in that brother aka Afghanistan while Pakistanis keep dying at home. The jokers who provide wheat, rice and all kind of supplies so that Afghans can eat them and then abuse Pakistan in return. Jokers who don't even have balls to send back Afghans crawling on our land like leeches.
> 
> Time for shut up calls have already passed. It is action or more useless shaheeds like we keep getting after every incident. And this would happen only if we start asking this military some hard questions. Enough with holy cow cr@p. Enough with guardians of the nation bullsh!t. Enough with the best intelligence agency and best military in the world stories. Time for questions and answers to those questions by military and ISPR. We don't need Asim Bajwa's tweets. We need answers from them in a press conference or in a live TV show.
> 
> I don't care whether PM is with COAS or not. And I am sure those scumbags in Afghanistan don't care either. If these two can't take any action putting all diplomatic and ethical norms aside then both of them are nothing but hijras for me and this nation.


 
Got your point and agree 200% in principle but in reality to materialize all this would require a lot of effort in fact a movement by youth of Pakistan which under current situation will lead to only more chaos .My earlier response was from the point of raising the morales of those who actually fought with bullets against intruders and gave their lives for their motherland.

Your approach is more logical aiming at why were these scumbags were able to penetrate into the Camp .

Rest I am very familiar with bloody civilian terminology and feeling of being superior to anyone else in Pakistan entertained by Pak army but its not the right time to discuss that as they have taken the burnt and are coming out victorious though slowly but steadily. If end is well all is well and Raheel sharif has raised the hope of a good end.

Without any blame game if you discuss with some agency official incase you have one close you will come to know in 08-09 Pakistan was in a much worst situation and even formulating a line of action was very hard as distinction between friend and foe was non existent but Alhamdulliah things are on a positive track and once dealt effectively and completely we should investigate the causes of all this but for the time being we should stand united with our forces.


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## Mrc

Lets also put this in a broad perspective...

Did americans manage to win in iraq...
Desert train ... no real foreign sponsors.... nope

Last time 11 armed men entered bombay... it took 4 days and commandos came from delhi to neutralise them...

This war in pakistan is being and will be won .... mark my word for it...

But i agree .... we must learn from our mistakes....
And we have ... just need to be more thorough and quick....

Why cant peshawar and all approaches to it rung with HD cctv cameras and live monitoring of faces and number plates done??

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## saurav

This seems to be a big intel failure. Attackers managed to inflict the damage they intended.


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## Areesh

Metanoia said:


> You only have General Raheel Sharif...one of the only few group men with a holistic approach towards terrorism and other related issues Pakistan is facing.
> 
> Your general "awam", and the politicians etc. probably don't even know how to spell holistic. Majority of the Pakistanis have a memory equivalent to that of a fish...which means that although they can move on after even the most terrible of tragedies...they are unable to learn and evolve from their past experiences.
> 
> We need proper research sir. I agree with you that this has really turned into a joke...10 to 40 casualties is considered a success.



General Raheel is no different from Kayani or anyone else. What different he has done. Only thing new he has done NWA operation. Well Kayani did more operations like in Swat, SWA, Bajaur, Mohmand, Kurram, Orakzai etc etc.

If Gen raheel just keeps continuing with the present BS of being all cheesy with Afghanistan then he is no different than Kayani.


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## Zarvan

Areesh said:


> wake up kiddo. America has defeated Taliban. There is no terror incident after 9/11 in America. They don't care about what is happening in Afghanistan as long as they are safe. They can even nuke Afghanistan completely and eliminate mighty Afghan race from this world and won't even take a burp after it. And India has defeated LET. There are more people who die by falling down from their stairs in india than those who are killed by LET. Turkey has beaten PKK. It is bombing PKK hideouts in Iraq and Syria and is not only collecting dead bodies like us.
> 
> And those South American governments have also beaten those mafias. Brazil is one of the biggest economies for a reason. Wake up kid. It might be all normal for you to see your countrymen dying since you are a mullah too who believes in conquering Delhi. but the fact with jokers ruling this country, there is no chance of us even conquering our own country. And if I would have been COAS and some similar kind of sh!t would have


Wake up kiddo USA begging us to put pressure on Afghan Taliban to start talks the groups they claimed to have defeated now they are talking to them and offering share in Afghan government. Defeated stop joking.Yes lone wolf attacks increasing by every day in USA soldiers getting killed around the world. As for Brazil defeated drug mafias stop joking thousands die every year in Brazil less than others still die because of Mafias vs state wars. So wake up smell the coffee we are fighting war will be won but it would take time.


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## haviZsultan

Our aircrafts in a war will be used against India or America in case of a war. These terroristic monkeys do not understand that they are destroying the very force (the airforce) which may one day fight with nations that stand against.us.

It is our duty to kill terrorists wherever they hide and as mercilessly as we can. By massacring worshippers in a mosque the terrorists show their true and dirty face to the public of Pakistan. We must so brutally massacre the taliban that they never raise their dirty head against Pakistan ever again.

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## coffee_cup

vsdoc said:


> @Manticore
> 
> Cheers, Doc



Indian, have some moral courage to type the full post:

Here for the help:



coffee_cup said:


> Screw you for using that laughter smiley.
> 
> Fully knowing that we Pakistanis have not even buried our dead and you already are showing your real pathetic ugly Indian face!
> 
> It is Indians like you, who we despise and can never forgive!
> 
> Have some shame!


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## nair

RIP dead.....Hope there will be a day when the word "Terrorism" is out our dictionary ...........

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## Zarvan

Areesh said:


> General Raheel is no different from Kayani or anyone else. What different he has done. Only ting new he has done NWA operation. Well Kayani did more operations like in Swat, SWA, Bajaur, Mohmand, Kurram, Orakzai etc etc.
> 
> If Gen raheel just keeps continuing with the present BS of being all cheesy with Afghanistan then he is no different than Kayani.


You need to grow up than talk


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## singh sahab

Abu Namr said:


> Khalistan


Oh, matlab pakistan ki another jugular vein.


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## Foxtrot Delta

Areesh said:


> wake up kiddo. America has defeated Taliban. There is no terror incident after 9/11 in America. They don't care about what is happening in Afghanistan as long as they are safe. They can even nuke Afghanistan completely and eliminate mighty Afghan race from this world and won't even take a burp after it. And India has defeated LET. There are more people who die by falling down from their stairs in india than those who are killed by LET. Turkey has beaten PKK. It is bombing PKK hideouts in Iraq and Syria and is not only collecting dead bodies like us.
> 
> And those South American governments have also beaten those mafias. Brazil is one of the biggest economies for a reason. Wake up kid. It might be all normal for you to see your countrymen dying since you are a mullah too who believes in conquering Delhi. but the fact with jokers ruling this country, there is no chance of us even conquering our own country. And if I would have been COAS and some similar kind of sh!t would have happened and I wouldn't have done anything then I would have simply resigned.


*lol no terror attack after 9/11 My God! taliban dont have/Had (in 2000-2001) the capability or any interest to attack america or american civilians . to my understanding, 9/11 was done by Al Qaeda leader Bin ladin or so we read and heard in news . no one said taliban leader or commander attacked Did shameless act of 9/11. america defeated taliban lolz think you are living under a rock or something. *


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## P.K.

coffee_cup said:


> Mumbai was an inside Indian job.
> 
> Now show credible proof in International Court of Justice if it was otherwise.



If Mumbai was an inside Indian job !!!!

Then ISI can never be hailed as a good intel agency as it failed to uncover this conspiracy to the world

Cause, Mumbai Attacks did brought down Pakistan's image considerably.

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## Areesh

Zarvan said:


> Wake up kiddo USA begging us to put pressure on Afghan Taliban to start talks the groups they claimed to have defeated now they are talking to them and offering share in Afghan government. Defeated stop joking.Yes lone wolf attacks increasing by every day in USA soldiers getting killed around the world. As for Brazil defeated drug mafias stop joking thousands die every year in Brazil less than others still die because of Mafias vs state wars. So wake up smell the coffee we are fighting war will be won but it would take time.



US is begging no one. US doesn't even care about Afghans. Afghans for them are nothing but numbers. One more 9/11 type thing in USA and Afghanistan would burn down with nuclear and radioactive heat. Lone wolf attacks where a pissed employee kills his boss might be some victory for you but doesn't really hurt America. America won't collapse just because some disheartened and frustrated employee killed his colleague or his boss. And Brazil is far better than what we see today in Badaber. They hosted last FIFA WC for a reason. While we can't even host a f*cking T20 match with a country like BD in Pakistan because of mullahs like you.


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## Shamain

Areesh said:


> General Raheel is no different from Kayani or anyone else. What different he has done. Only ting new he has done NWA operation. Well Kayani did more operations like in Swat, SWA, Bajaur, Mohmand, Kurram, Orakzai etc etc.
> 
> If Gen raheel just keeps continuing with the present BS of being all cheesy with Afghanistan then he is no different than Kayani.


Have our own ppl been with us thru out?
How many pakistanis stopped supporting extremist ideologies after aps?

Why cant we take down lal masjid mullah yet? There is a fear of strong public and political opposition. Yes our armed forces and isi have been lax on all those ocassions when we suffered attacks at sensitive installations but ucant ignore the support provided to such terrorists by our own ppl.

And if in todays case the terrorists had brought the weapons and explosives from another town city then tahts also our major security failure.

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## coffee_cup

Mrc said:


> Lets also put this in a broad perspective...
> 
> Did americans manage to win in iraq...
> Desert train ... no real foreign sponsors.... nope
> 
> Last time 11 armed men entered bombay... it took 4 days and commandos came from delhi to neutralise them...
> 
> This war in pakistan is being and will be won .... mark my word for it...
> 
> But i agree .... we must learn from our mistakes....
> And we have ... just need to be more thorough and quick....
> 
> Why cant peshawar and all approaches to it rung with HD cctv cameras and live monitoring of faces and number plates done??



Exactly, it takes time, patience and amzing acts of bravely to defeat the maniac of terrorism which is being financed and sponsored by a very determined enemy from the East who would not settle on anything less than destroying us (at least, this is what they dream every night).

And we Pakistanis are brave and resilient people and have shown time and again that we can *defend ourselves*.

*Just like Sri Lankans defeated the greatest terrorism unleashed opon their country by supposedly "the largest democracy of the world", we will also prevail! Insha Allah. *


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## Areesh

Zarvan said:


> You need to grow up than talk



Yeah you keep enjoying those lone wolf attacks. America would collapse because of them in next 300 years. Only problem is that you won't be alive to see that.

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## Mr.Nair

Sino Dragon said:


> Shame on some of the Indians and Pakistanis to glorify this act. I can understand Indians but Pakistanis. They are the one supporting them. We feel so disheartened listening about all this and will support Pakistan in need of hour but here the way some people are acting is completely ridiculous. There is a problem and Pakistan should find out a way to deal with it. We will completely support you in whatever way we can.



*Since this thread running from morning with 39 pages, other than you not a single chinese put any condolences to this sad incident even though lot of their arch enemy indians made condolences*

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## coffee_cup

P.K. said:


> If Mumbai was an inside Indian job !!!!
> 
> Then ISI can never be hailed as a good intel agency as it failed to uncover this conspiracy to the world
> 
> Cause, Mumbai Attacks did brought down Pakistan's image considerably.



Lets not get there.

It was a reponse to a very pathetic person's post who was provoking Pakistanis in this very delicate time, when we have not even buried our dead yet!


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## Zarvan

Areesh said:


> US is begging no one. US doesn't even care about Afghans. Afghans for them are nothing but numbers. One more 9/11 type thing in USA and Afghanistan would burn down with nuclear and radioactive heat. Lone wolf attacks where a pissed employee kills his boss might be some victory for you but doesn't really hurt America. America won't collapse just because some disheartened and frustrated employee killed his colleague or his boss. And Brazil is far better than what we see today in Badaber. They hosted last FIFA WC for a reason. While we can't even host a f*cking T20 match with a country like BD in Pakistan because of mullahs like you.


USA is begging because they know they lost war every USA General comes to meet COAS RAHEEL SHAREEF to request that we put pressure on Afghan Taliban so they talk. Yes as for nuclear attacks USA can't nuke entire world because their stupid actions have made sure every one considers them enemy.Brazul hosted with Army deployed in cities and continuous operation going on they still loose thousands every year. USA won't collapse neither do we but still lives are lost. As for Brazil they still loose several every second day . These wars are never easy they have to be fought for decades.


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## Foxtrot Delta

Areesh said:


> wake up kiddo. America has defeated Taliban. There is no terror incident after 9/11 in America. They don't care about what is happening in Afghanistan as long as they are safe. *They can even nuke Afghanistan completely and eliminate mighty Afghan race from this world and won't even take a burp after it. *And India has defeated LET. There are more people who die by falling down from their stairs in india than those who are killed by LET. Turkey has beaten PKK. It is bombing PKK hideouts in Iraq and Syria and is not only collecting dead bodies like us.
> 
> And those South American governments have also beaten those mafias. Brazil is one of the biggest economies for a reason. Wake up kid. It might be all normal for you to see your countrymen dying since you are a mullah too who believes in conquering Delhi. but the fact with jokers ruling this country, there is no chance of us even conquering our own country. And if I would have been COAS and some similar kind of sh!t would have happened and I wouldn't have done anything then I would have simply resigned.



*shows how much of a human being you are. shows typical indian mindset. as so if we are discussing who "Can do what " if Americans can nuke and wipe afghan race off of.the plannet then do remember Pakistan can do it as well and can do it to any nation same size as indian country in september 2015. applies to all nuke nations with stock piles more than 100 nukes. so keep yoir can do to yourself. there is alot.of difference in can do will do and actully doing and acting on it. Afghans are our brothers, dont bother talk in our affairs yoi have no business in our talk. and we dont hate all afghans we hate the terrorists faithless people in that country. i am sure we shall sort out the mess usa and india created for us in afghanistan will take time.*


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## DV RULES

GTM900 said:


> What next? A terrorist will walk into a shopping mall in a densely populated Pakistani city and detonate his suitcase Nuke?



I am surprised to find some sort of Psychos here.
You words are enough to show the world that who is actual Terrorist.


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## xenon54 out

RIP Brothers.

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## Areesh

Irfan Baloch said:


> thankyou
> 
> that's exactly the mentality we need.
> now that we are in agreement please pull the thumb out of your arse you appear in great pain
> 
> so much so that you fail to see my point. I am not wishing death for our soldiers instead I am wishing them victory.. but what is done is done.. so stop pissing on their corpses because you are upset.
> 
> now let me explain to you what occupational hazard means because I have lived it. we have temporary graves by our trenches and bunkers along the LoC.. we are not holding our dicks there we have our fingers on the MG's and 12.7s triggers and we know just like we will shoot at our opponent .. so shall he. and its a given whenever there is an exchange of fire there are bound to be casualties.. its a not a comic story its a reality yes jazba e Shahadat is over cooked and over blown by some Pakistanis but its not as grave as you are suggesting.
> 
> look at those pictures of the pigs lying on the ground by the walls or on the roads.. see that? they achieved cheap shot through surprise but they met their end too when they got shot back.
> 
> 
> 
> now please pull that thumb out and calm down.



Why what is done is done? Who is going to ask our military that how come more than a dozen cave dwellers first managed to come into Pakistan from Afghanistan. Then crossed into KPK from FATA. And then traveled to a sensitive military installation in an open truck and nobody in the whole city bothered to check them. Don't tell me stories what you used to do in military. Since seriously nobody gives a f*ck.
And situation is grave. This shahadat is exaggerated too much. Watch this year's 6th September show for further details.

And I have seen those pictures. And they didn't give me any comfort since those useless scums didn't come to go back alive. They came to kill and get killed. And this is exactly what they achieved. They achieved what they wanted. They won. We lost. we are a fcking losers. 

And now take thumb out of your mouth and accept a few hard realities. You are not a baby either.

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## Imran Khan

SarthakGanguly said:


> No need to commend them. No need to celebrate it. Better to just ignore. Their masla, their problem, their solution, their headache. Nothing to do with us.


tum log kab se itny achy ho gay ?

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## P.K.

coffee_cup said:


> Lets not get there.
> 
> It was a reponse to a very pathetic person's post who was provoking Pakistanis in this very delicate time, when we have not even buried our dead yet!


 may this dastardly terror attack unite every Pakistani to fight against every Terrorist


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## Windjammer



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## iPhone

Motherfukers got lucky with the attack this time. Don't worry pigs, we coming for you, smoke you out of your pig holes.


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## Thunder Bolt

*PAF Badaber camp attack was planned, controlled from Afghanistan: DG ISPR*






Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major-General Asim Bajwa. -DawnNews screengrab
PESHAWAR: Director General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major-General Asim Bajwa on Friday said that the attack on Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Badaber camp earlier in the day was planned and controlled from Afghanistan.

The DG ISPR held a press conference following the attack on PAF Badaber camp earlier in the day and provided details of the attack and follow-up actions by security forces.

According to the details given by ISPR in its press conference, the attack on the PAF installation started at around 5am, when the terrorists arrived on Inqalab road, and dismounted from their vehicle near the gates of the base.

“After dismounting, the terrorists used rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) and automatic rifle fire to breach the gates and gain entry into the PAF base,” said Bajwa.

He elaborated by adding that as soon as the terrorists entered the facility, they met stiff resistance from the PAF guards who were stationed to guard the base.

“The terrorists then split in to two groups, with one group heading towards the administrative area of the base while the other group headed towards technical area,” added the ISPR head.

Major-General Bajwa said that the terrorists were under continuous fire from security forces, and the Quick Reaction Force (QRF) reached within ten minutes and managed to contain the attackers in a relatively small area of the base.

“Once the terrorists entered the facility, they were contained within 50 metres of either side of the gate, and were not able to advance towards their objectives.”

The head of the ISPR confirmed that the ensuing firefight took place within the small area which also housed the base’s mosque, which “unfortunately became a target for the attackers, and they rushed in and opened fire on the people present for morning prayers.”

“At least 29 people have been martyred -- 23 from air force, three from army and three civilians,” AFP quoted Bajwa as saying. The ISPR spokesperson said that 29 people were also wounded during the attack

The DG ISPR explained to the media personnel present that the ensuing attack on those present in the mosque and a barracks building next to the mosque caused the most casualties during the attack.

Maj Gen Bajwa also praised the media for its objective reporting and informing the people regarding the developments announced by the ISPR in a timely manner.


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## coffee_cup

SarthakGanguly said:


> I am NOT extending any condolences. This incident does not affect me. Nor does it affect my nation. I am talking to a fellow Indian here. That's all. Thanks.



Then go and talk to fellow Indians somewhere else.

Leave us alone, all of you Indians! We DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOU!

Go open your own forum and post whatever shyte you want there!

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## Areesh

Foxtrot Delta said:


> *shows how much of a human being you are. shows typical indian mindset. .*



Indian mindset or whatever. I only care about my own people and my country. Afghans can go get killed by daisy cutters. I don't give a flying f*ck. And neither any other Pakistan should care about it. Might is right. This is the only rule that works in this world. Human rights, freedom, liberty are all words meant for dictionary and thesaurus. Accept this rule. You have no other choice.

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## Maarkhoor

iPhone said:


> Motherfukers


you can express your emotions and views in decent manner, Sure we will not spare an single one from them.


----------



## Imran Khan

Mr.Nair said:


> *Since this thread running from morning with 39 pages, other than you not a single chinese put any condolences to this sad incident even though lot of their arch enemy indians made condolences*


they send us in personal


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## SarthakGanguly

coffee_cup said:


> Then go and talk to fellow Indians somewhere else.
> 
> Leave us alone, all of you Indians! We DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOU!
> 
> Go open your own forum and post whatever shyte you want there!


Don't quote Indians in this thread on your own. Quote me elsewhere. Thanks.

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## Foxtrot Delta

Sino Dragon said:


> Shame on some of the Indians and Pakistanis to glorify this act. I can understand Indians but Pakistanis. They are the one supporting them. We feel so disheartened listening about all this and will support Pakistan in need of hour but here the way some people are acting is completely ridiculous. There is a problem and Pakistan should find out a way to deal with it. We will completely support you in whatever way we can.


*谢谢兄弟， 我们非常感谢中国人说会support 我们。 阿富汗和印度 最近太麻烦。没事儿慢慢就好了。pak army 在努力把他们没了。然后有的人在这里pakistan defence 上 是18岁左右比太懂事儿所以 看来在glorify an act of terrorism. *


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## Shamain

SarthakGanguly said:


> I am NOT extending any condolences. This incident does not affect me. Nor does it affect my nation. I am talking to a fellow Indian here. That's all. Thanks.


Yes it doesnt effect u yet u are seen in this thread. On this forum. Such indiffernece for pakistanis yet on pdf.
And no one is expecting or needs ur condolences , as i said take them...away with you.

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## Mr.Nair

Imran Khan said:


> they send us in personal



At least pakistan job is done by US,today's news

U.S. drone strike kills 7 in Pakistan - The Hindu


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## SarthakGanguly

Shamain said:


> Yes it doesnt effect u yet u are seen in this thread. On this forum. Such indiffernece for pakistanis yet on pdf.
> And no one is expecting or needs ur condolences , as i said take them...away with you.


Uff. Last time we showed sympathy, we were proved to be the children killers, drama queens etc. Some Indians may not learn their lesson. But others do. Please quote me elsewhere and don't spoil this thread if you respect your men.

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## Foxtrot Delta

VelocuR said:


> Which Pakistanis you speak of?
> 
> Of course Indians are filthy and disgusting due to their same mentality since.



我也还没看到你说的那个巴基斯坦人。 i have looked did'nt understand who are you refering to. anyways sometimes young kids bring emotions. just ignore them. todays act was indeed provocative and thought provoking but shows need to cary on ajd take the fight to terrorists in their homes and in their minds.

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## Sipahi

RIP :'(

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## HAIDER

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Just got the news regarding a militant lead attack on a small air force base situated in Badaber.
> 
> *Any Details?
> 
> Updated 1:
> 
> View attachment 257879
> View attachment 257879
> View attachment 257881
> 
> 
> *
> *Update 2:*
> 
> *Pictures of neutralized militants!!*
> 
> View attachment 257923
> View attachment 257924
> View attachment 257925
> View attachment 257926
> 
> 
> 
> *Update 3:  13 militants sent to Hell so far.*
> 
> *
> View attachment 257940
> *


vahi Service ka joggers......is Sevice shoes are hallmark of terrorist or what.....


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## Mr.Nair

Imran Khan said:


> they send us in personal



Chinese are investing 46 billion dollar right, why can't u people ask chinese to fence border with afghanistan !


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## Areesh

Shamain said:


> Have our own ppl been with us thru out?
> How many pakistanis stopped supporting extremist ideologies after aps?
> 
> Why cant we take down lal masjid mullah yet? There is a fear of strong public and political opposition. Yes our armed forces and isi have been lax on all those ocassions when we suffered attacks at sensitive installations but ucant ignore the support provided to such terrorists by our own ppl.
> 
> And if in todays case the terrorists had brought the weapons and explosives from another town city then tahts also our major security failure.



Support or no support. It is the duty of ISI and army and the whole military to safe themselves and this country. That's what they are paid for. TTP ha support. Yes. But that doesn't mean that a bunch of yahoos can travel to a military installation in an open truck and our military would be found sleeping sucking its thumb. Did you see that picture of that truck those rats used for this attack? It was an open truck. And they all used it to travel to a military installation like they are going on a public. 

Military has failed. And it should answer a lot of question. But it won't since then answering questions of Pakistani awaam was never a habit of this military.

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## HAIDER

Thunder Bolt said:


> *PAF Badaber camp attack was planned, controlled from Afghanistan: DG ISPR*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major-General Asim Bajwa. -DawnNews screengrab
> PESHAWAR: Director General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major-General Asim Bajwa on Friday said that the attack on Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Badaber camp earlier in the day was planned and controlled from Afghanistan.
> 
> The DG ISPR held a press conference following the attack on PAF Badaber camp earlier in the day and provided details of the attack and follow-up actions by security forces.
> 
> According to the details given by ISPR in its press conference, the attack on the PAF installation started at around 5am, when the terrorists arrived on Inqalab road, and dismounted from their vehicle near the gates of the base.
> 
> “After dismounting, the terrorists used rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) and automatic rifle fire to breach the gates and gain entry into the PAF base,” said Bajwa.
> 
> He elaborated by adding that as soon as the terrorists entered the facility, they met stiff resistance from the PAF guards who were stationed to guard the base.
> 
> “The terrorists then split in to two groups, with one group heading towards the administrative area of the base while the other group headed towards technical area,” added the ISPR head.
> 
> Major-General Bajwa said that the terrorists were under continuous fire from security forces, and the Quick Reaction Force (QRF) reached within ten minutes and managed to contain the attackers in a relatively small area of the base.
> 
> “Once the terrorists entered the facility, they were contained within 50 metres of either side of the gate, and were not able to advance towards their objectives.”
> 
> The head of the ISPR confirmed that the ensuing firefight took place within the small area which also housed the base’s mosque, which “unfortunately became a target for the attackers, and they rushed in and opened fire on the people present for morning prayers.”
> 
> “At least 29 people have been martyred -- 23 from air force, three from army and three civilians,” AFP quoted Bajwa as saying. The ISPR spokesperson said that 29 people were also wounded during the attack
> 
> The DG ISPR explained to the media personnel present that the ensuing attack on those present in the mosque and a barracks building next to the mosque caused the most casualties during the attack.
> 
> Maj Gen Bajwa also praised the media for its objective reporting and informing the people regarding the developments announced by the ISPR in a timely manner.



That is something serious......hope Army don't find RAW at the tail of this dog.....


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## The Vicious Kind

Irfan Baloch said:


> there is no security improvement. the terrorists only went in slumber and hiding due to the operation. they need to be pursued constantly in the cities and tribal areas and eliminated. their icon of terror and defiance Red Mosque administration still exists in the capital and the controversial cleric openly mocks the army and the state but no action is taken against him



I beg to differ. Just a year ago, TTP controlled almost 5000 sq.km of land in Northwaziristan alone .Not to mention , major tribal population centers like miranshah and mirali , where they were running their terror economy. All that land has been taken away from them and with khyber1&2 so has their ability to regroup . Many people forget that before Op rahe nijat in south waziristan , TTP were on the cusp of expanding their territory to GB and also carried out suicide attacks in AJK. But that all changed , from a fighting force on the ground they have been transformed into a low intensity insurgency , who can only wage a war of attrition.

The stats speak for themselves , a couple of years ago the total number of causalities were between 2800-3500 per year .Not only the number of terrorist incidents have decreased but the causalities this year are now at the 2004 level which was prior to the foundation of ttp.

People often undermine the fact that there isnt any magic wand that would make Pakistan terror free overnight . It took Algeria 12 years to get rid of FIS and FIDA ,islamits groups its that are quite similar to TTP . Infact Pakistan tops the list of countries where terrorism is declining. There is still work to be done.I believe that Op-Zea isnt the last anti-terror op , i think we will see a few more ops.

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## karan.1970

Suddenly the COAS claims of rooting out terrorists and their network from the the tribal regions and the success of zarb e azb seem quite hollow. This wasnt a poor misguided SOB blowing himself in a crowded market. But a military style assault launched on the military target.

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## coffee_cup

karan.1970 said:


> Suddenly the COAS claims of rooting out terrorists and their network from the the tribal regions and the success of zarb e azb seem quite hollow. This wasnt a poor misguided SOB blowing himself in a crowded market. But a military style assault launched on the military target.



Here comes another one!

Don't you Indians have anywhere else to go?

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## Foxtrot Delta

haviZsultan said:


> Our aircrafts in a war will be used against India or America in case of a war. These terroristic monkeys do not understand that they are destroying the very force (the airforce) which may one day fight with nations that stand against.us.
> 
> It is our duty to kill terrorists wherever they hide and as mercilessly as we can. By massacring worshippers in a mosque the terrorists show their true and dirty face to the public of Pakistan. We must so brutally massacre the taliban that they never raise their dirty head against Pakistan ever again.


* i agree but a better way would be to know why are the taliban supporting indian aims? and how do we counter it.*


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## Imran Khan

SarthakGanguly said:


> Most Indians remain sentimental fools though. I am out of here. Quote me elsewhere pls.


so i should cut you out of that list?

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## farhan_9909

Star Wars said:


> Whats the point of attacking a mosque if there is no high value target ?



Indian trained terrorist have only the capacity of killing civilians or unarmed soldiers.

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## Imran Khan

Mr.Nair said:


> Chinese are investing 46 billion dollar right, why can't u people ask chinese to fence border with afghanistan !


idea is nto bad i wish we could ask them


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## VelocuR

reported them, don't reply them. Full Stop

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## Foxtrot Delta

karan.1970 said:


> Suddenly the COAS claims of rooting out terrorists and their network from the the tribal regions and the success of zarb e azb seem quite hollow. This wasnt a poor misguided SOB blowing himself in a crowded market. But a military style assault launched on the military target.


*Pathetic! just pathetic. people like you will get what you deserve*.


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## karan.1970

Foxtrot Delta said:


> * i agree but a better way would be to know why are the taliban supporting indian aims? *



I think the answer should be quite obvious....You guys already believe that India sponsors TTP. With that belief this question is quite redundant. Dont you think ?

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## Icarus

karan.1970 said:


> Suddenly the COAS claims of rooting out terrorists and their network from the the tribal regions and the success of zarb e azb seem quite hollow. This wasnt a poor misguided SOB blowing himself in a crowded market. But a military style assault launched on the military target.



A military style assault against the living quarters, yeah, that must have taken nerves of steel.


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

HAIDER said:


> vahi Service ka joggers......is Sevice shoes are hallmark of terrorist or what.....




Service brand or Service (Force)?

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## Areesh

Zarvan said:


> USA is begging because they know they lost war every USA General comes to meet COAS RAHEEL SHAREEF to request that we put pressure on Afghan Taliban so they talk. Yes as for nuclear attacks USA can't nuke entire world because their stupid actions have made sure every one considers them enemy.Brazul hosted with Army deployed in cities and continuous operation going on they still loose thousands every year. USA won't collapse neither do we but still lives are lost. As for Brazil they still loose several every second day . These wars are never easy they have to be fought for decades.



US is begging no one. It is asking since you are a neighbor of this sh!t country Afghanistan. Brazil hosted with military support or not. It hosted one of the biggest events of sport. Something Pakistan can't do with or without military support. 

US can nuke Afghanistan. And nobody can stop them. In fact nobody would bother to stop them. After all Afghanistan is a shithole of this world. World would consider nuking Afghanistan like draining your shithole. Khas kam jahan pak.


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## agamdilawari

*42, including 13 terrorists, killed in Taliban attack on Pakistan air force base*

PESHAWAR: At least 42 persons were killed, 16 of them inside a mosque, and more than 30 injured when Pakistani Taliban carried out a deadly attack on a base camp of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in the northwestern city of Peshawar on Friday morning. 

The military said that the dead included 13 terrorists, army captain and three PAF technicians. It said that attackers, wearing explosives-laden jackets and carrying AK-47 rifles, hand-propelled grenades and mortars, entered the PAF base camp in Peshawar's Badaber area after storming a guard post. After clearing their way, a group of them, attacked a nearby mosque, killing 16 worshippers there during morning prayers. 

"The militants were contained within a close area. Meanwhile, a group of terrorists rushed to a mosque and killed 16 people offering prayers inside," said Major General Asim Saleem Bajwa, army's spokesperson. He said that 13 terrorists were shot dead in the encounter that followed the attack. Bajwa said that militants had entered the base camp from two sides and were then divided into three groups. Moreover, he said that two army officers and eight soldiers were injured during an exchange of fire with terrorists. Locals said that they heard several explosions inside the base during Friday's wee hours.

Television pictures showed helicopters hovering above the base camp while ambulances ferrying dead and injured persons to hospitals. 

Sources at a military-run hospital in Peshawar said that 29 dead bodies were brought there and three of them were beyond recognition. Rescue officials said that 30 injured were taken to the city's Combined Military and Lady Reading hospitals. "Six injured were brought into the hospital with three of them in critical condition," said Dr Subhani, a medical superintendant at Lady Reading Hospital. 

It was not clear how many of them were civilians and how many military personnel but more than 20 coffins were seen at army's crops headquarters in Peshawar where PM Nawaz Sharif and army Chief General Raheel Sharif participated in their funeral prayers.






_Soldiers arrive to repel an attack on an air force base in Peshawar. (Reuters photo)_

The photographs of dead militants shared with media revealed that they were between 17-23 years of age and wearing white shoes and uniforms of Frontier Constabulary, a paramilitary force. 

Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) claimed responsibility for the attack, saying in an email sent to journalists that the attack was carried out by its suicide unit in reaction to military operations against them in tribal regions. 

The facility that terrorists attacked was not operational and had been used in the past by US for surveillance and espionage activities against former Soviet Union. Peshawar has suffered the most in the war on terror but the latest attack came after a lull of several months. It was the worst attack in the northwestern city since the massacre of 131 kids and 13 adults by Taliban in December 2014. 

Separately, six suspected militants were killed on Friday in a US drone strike in South Waziristan tribal region on the border with Afghanistan. Intelligence sources said that the Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) fired two missiles on a hideout of militants in Sarokai area of South Waziristan, killing at least six suspected militants.

42, including 13 terrorists, killed in Taliban attack on Pakistan air force base - The Times of India


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## Icarus

Star Wars said:


> Whats the point of attacking a mosque if there is no high value target ?



Shock Value/News Coverage



karan.1970 said:


> Ok.. I retract my words.. Terrorists have been removed from Pakistan. Zarb-e-Azb is a resounding success. Hope that makes it all better.



Don't make meaningless posts, if you have a point, lay it out.

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## Mrc

Icarus said:


> A military style assault against the living quarters, yeah, that must have taken nerves of steel.




There are things which are different in this assault

1- no suicide vests
2- in photograph released by ttp that red haired woman in back ground with flowing hair and no hijab

Thus angle needs to be looked at

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## Basel

chhota bheem said:


> Good job by security forces.
> 
> But the attitude of some of the posters ,blaming already is disgusting @Shamain @VelocuR @Humble Analyst .... These people are the type who even if they get 99% in life they still make their life miserable thinking of the other 1%



Indian media have taught that so go and correct them first.


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## Bratva

karan.1970 said:


> Suddenly the COAS claims of rooting out terrorists and their network from the the tribal regions and the success of zarb e azb seem quite hollow. This wasnt a poor misguided SOB blowing himself in a crowded market. But a military style assault launched on the military target.



If your hollow brain paid attention. Terrorists came from Afghanistan. Through tirah valley travelling through rough patches. Attacked a area which is adjacent to one tribal agency.

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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> A military style assault against the living quarters, yeah, that must have taken nerves of steel.


Target doesnt matter. It was a fairly well planned attack with elements of diversion etc baked in. And it was not a soft target since its a military base. However the terrorists were able to identify and attack the soft spots within a military target. That would have taken significant planning and preparation. The comment is on the still existing cohesion in the TTP structure

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## coffee_cup

Mrc said:


> There are things which are different in this assault
> 
> 1- no suicide vests
> 2- in photograph released by ttp that red haired woman in back ground with flowing hair and no hijab
> 
> Thus angle needs to be looked at



Uzbek looking cockroaches, most probably from Northen Alliance. A ready made bent-over shoulder for Indian guns.

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## aks18

Long Live Pakistan and Long Live Pakistan army .. keep on fu**ing these indian proxies


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## HAIDER

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Service brand or Service (Force)?


@someone else service force......lozzz

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

HAIDER said:


> @someone else service force......lozzz



Hahaha!!


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## SrNair

AtiF Malang said:


> Internet is a heaven for them where they can release their gas otherwise in real life they can't talk face to face .



Have you ever talk to an Indian face to face ?


On topic .
RIP

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## Icarus

karan.1970 said:


> Target doesnt matter. It was a fairly well planned attack with elements of diversion etc baked in. And it was not a soft target since its a military base. However the terrorists were able to identify and attack the soft spots within a military target. That would have taken significant planning and preparation. The comment is on the still existing cohesion in the TTP structure



That's more like it, a solid line of argument. 

Okay, yes the TTP does retain a command structure in various capacities. 

1. Remnants HQ element in Shawal
2. HQ element that has migrated to Kunnar and Nuristan province of Afghanistan. 
3. Auxiliary Command Structures in each city/region. 

Work in ongoing to deal with types 1 and 3, with the latter receiving greater attention than ever before which intrinsically buds from the break down of the HQ element and the reducing risk that it poses. As for 2, that is something that we are in contact with the Afghan Govt, ANA and NDS to deal with. They have consistently failed to assert control over these areas which is causing a lot of hurdles for us and the Afghans themselves in achieving our respective security goals.

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Junior Technician, Tariq Abbas Shaheed.






May ALLAH elevate the statuses of all Shuhada in Jannah. Ameen. What a handsome guy.!!

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## Icarus

SrNair said:


> Have you ever talk to an Indian face to face ?
> 
> 
> On topic .
> RIP




Lol, I first met an Indian when I was 10 years old and I thought he would kill me because whenever I had heard of Indians, I had heard tales of them butchering people in Kashmir. What can I say? I was born in the PTV generation

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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> Target doesnt matter. It was a fairly well planned attack with elements of diversion etc baked in. And it was not a soft target since its a military base. However the terrorists were able to identify and attack the soft spots within a military target. That would have taken significant planning and preparation. The comment is on the still existing cohesion in the TTP structure



There is nothing to discuss here for you. The defeat is explicit here. PA and PAF got kicked around by a bunch of yahoos yet again. On the other hand i appreciate your success in quelling violence in IOK. Yeah I am the biggest proponent of Kashmir issue but that doesn't mean that I should refuse to accept your success. You guys succeeded. While we are till today are failing. Let's see if we can win in future. Even though I am not much optimistic given the kind of leadership we have here in this country.

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## Windjammer

Areesh said:


> Indian mindset or whatever. I only care about my own people and my country. Afghans can go get killed by daisy cutters. I don't give a flying f*ck. And neither any other Pakistan should care about it. Might is right. This is the only rule that works in this world. Human rights, freedom, liberty are all words meant for dictionary and thesaurus. Accept this rule. You have no other choice.


My dear, i understand and respect your sentiments, please understand the dearest to a human must be his own life and when you have to deal with subhuman with value and mentality of a stray dog then sadly you will have to make sacrifices. Our sheer bad luck is that we are neighbours to a hell hole like Afghanistan. The Americans maybe safe back home but in Afganistan, despite all their hi-tech gadgetry and firepower, they were never secure in their bases which often come under attack.
Like APS, this was also a soft target, apparently some sources indicate that there is a weapon depot near the camp and that was their target.

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## jaibi

You appear to be divorced of the situation in your neighborhood. We're in a new age of conflict; go ahead and read who're we fighting, what they do, how do they do it. 


karan.1970 said:


> Suddenly the COAS claims of rooting out terrorists and their network from the the tribal regions and the success of zarb e azb seem quite hollow. This wasnt a poor misguided SOB blowing himself in a crowded market. But a military style assault launched on the military target.

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## Icarus

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Junior Technician, Tariq Abbas Shaheed.
> 
> View attachment 258111
> 
> 
> May ALLAH elevate the statuses of all Shuhada in Jannah. Ameen. What a handsome guy.!!



These guys are heroes, they kept the terrorists rooted long enough for QRF to limit them to a small area away from family quarters and take them out. What great soldiers, I would give half my life to just kiss their foreheads and tell them what a good job they did.

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## Foxtrot Delta

karan.1970 said:


> I think the answer should be quite obvious....You guys already believe that India sponsors TTP. With that belief this question is quite redundant. Dont you think ?



*we don't only believe TTP is supported by india, We know it for a fact! the connection between TTP and indian hand needs to be cut. if we only go after TTP its no use some other group might come up. we need to address indian sponsering of.terrorism do they support TTP in retaliation of us supporting Kashmiriz? and by the say its what indians think. *


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## Bratva

Areesh said:


> That doesn't explain that military was found napping like always. And that doesn't change the fact that same kind of incidents would happen in future too since military would be found napping then too.
> 
> And this also doesn't explain the fact that no action would be taken TTP elements in Afghanistan. Our best response would consist of Gen Raheel traveling to Kabul with or without NS for a new photo shoot in
> Kabul.



When a open truck containing 13 fully armed people travelling through the dirt roads of Khyber agency at 3 am. Nobody would pay attention. Because all the people of that village/town/semi urban city would be sleeping. 

You remember the incident Afghan taliban breached American Airbase and destroyed 6 fighter jets worth 100 million ?. 

This is an active insurgency. This is the nature of war.

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## Mr.Nair

coffee_cup said:


> Uzbek looking cockroaches, most probably from Northen Alliance. A ready made bent-over shoulder for Indian guns.



Abhe why you blame everything india.Take a look chain of events this mess happened in your country

1. Soviet invade afghanistan
2. US with help of pakistan and taliban try to defeat soviet union
3. Taliban offense on US soil
4. Pakistan make support to US against taliban
5. In revenge taliban attack Pakistan
6. Pakistan lauched Zarb e azb
7. Taliban make counter revenge for zarb e azb

*Where is india coming in picture? India is least to blame your country mess.
*
@Shamain @Areesh @Windjammer @Zarvan @AsianUnion @coffee_cup @Mrc @Imran Khan @Foxtrot-Bravo @Basel @SarthakGanguly @karan.1970 @VelocuR

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Icarus said:


> These guys are heroes, they kept the terrorists rooted long enough for QRF to limit them to a small area away from family quarters and take them out. What great soldiers, I would give half my life to just kiss their foreheads and tell them what a good job they did.




You just snatched the same words out of my mouth. They did a splendid, just of 2 these technicians in the guard room held around 6 terrorists on the main gate and didn't let them pass through. They fought until last bullet, last drop of blood, making it an example.

You really snatched my words, I want to kiss their foreheads, want to tell them they did a glorious job and that the nation is proud of them, really really proud of them. Can't express those feelings in words. :')

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## Icarus

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> You just snatched the same words out of my mouth. They did a splendid, just of 2 these technicians in the guard room held around 6 terrorists on the main gate and didn't let them pass through. They fought until last bullet, last drop of blood, making it an example.
> 
> You really snatched my words, I want to kiss their foreheads, want to tell them they did a glorious job and that the nation is proud of them, really really proud of them. Can't express those feelings in words. :')



I feel jealous of them to some degree too, I have spent my life putting myself in all kinds of impossible situations just hoping for a glorious death like this but it has eluded me time after time.

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## farhan_9909

karan.1970 said:


> Suddenly the COAS claims of rooting out terrorists and their network from the the tribal regions and the success of zarb e azb seem quite hollow. This wasnt a poor misguided SOB blowing himself in a crowded market. But a military style assault launched on the military target.



Abhey Indian sun

Zarb e azb has reduced terrorist activities in Pakistan by more than 70% in only one year,tell me how can you call it hollow?

we have prevented a greater frequency of such attacks,but we cannot achieve 100% success with a thousand km long porous border,as soon as we find a solution to seal the border,say good bye to terrorism in Pakistan.

It is way easy for indian agencies to penetrate into Pakistan from Afghanistan side

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## Areesh

Windjammer said:


> My dear, i understand and respect your sentiments, please understand the dearest to a human must be his own life and when you have to deal with subhuman with value and mentality of a stray dog then sadly you will have to make sacrifices. Our sheer bad luck is that we are neighbours to a hell hole like Afghanistan. The Americans maybe safe back home but in Afganistan, despite all their hi-tech gadgetry and firepower, they were never secure in their bases which often come under attack.
> Like APS, this was also a soft target, apparently some sources indicate that there is a weapon depot near the camp and that was their target.



We can't change our neighborhood. We are living with this hellhole called as Afghanistan. So what should we do? Keep getting killed and keep collecting shaheed to make us and whole nation fool. Or do something more practical to solve this. Till now I haven't seen anything till today. If death of 50000 Pakistanis can't force this country to fence and mine Afghan border then only God knows what will!


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## SrNair

Icarus said:


> Lol, I first met an Indian when I was 10 years old and I thought he would kill me because whenever I had heard of Indians, I had heard tales of them butchering people in Kashmir. What can I say? I was born in the PTV generation



Sir you are a veteran expert .You have several times life experience than me 

On topic.Sir how could they manage to sneak in that PAF base without any problem?They were around 13 terrorists .How could they hide these much of heavy arms from the survelliance of ISI?
And they know that they will slaughtered easily if they solely attack the base .So it seems they attacked those innocent people in mosque to vent out frustration.


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Icarus said:


> I feel jealous of them to some degree too, I have spent my life putting myself in all kinds of impossible situations just hoping for a glorious death like this but it has eluded me time after time.




For sure, they have achieved what every soldier desires. I just wish I go to them as soon as possible, I talk to them, I want to see them in the life hereafter.

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## Foxtrot Delta

*indians like the israeliz use the same tacttics may be are taught by them actully, they want afghans and pakistaniz to fight among each other, while pakistaniz know it, we need to talk with afghans like brothers and before taking action in afghanistan must take afghan government in confidence and make them come to terms. afghans need Pakistan and we need them stable. *


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## SrNair

Mr.Nair said:


> Abhe why you blame everything india.Take a look chain of events this mess happened in your country
> 
> 1. Soviet invade afghanistan
> 2. US with help of pakistan and taliban try to defeat soviet union
> 3. Taliban offense on US soil
> 4. Pakistan make support to US against taliban
> 5. In revenge taliban attack Pakistan
> 6. Pakistan lauched Zarb e azb
> 7. Taliban make counter revenge for zarb e azb
> 
> *Where is india coming in picture? India is least to blame your country mess.
> *
> @Shamain @Areesh @Windjammer @Zarvan @AsianUnion @coffee_cup @Mrc @Imran Khan @Foxtrot-Bravo @Basel @SarthakGanguly @karan.1970 @VelocuR




Bro just stop it .There is a lot of sane posters in here .Reply to them .Ignore others.

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## Areesh

Bratva said:


> When a open truck containing 13 fully armed people travelling through the dirt roads of Khyber agency at 3 am. Nobody would pay attention. Because all the people of that village/town/semi urban city would be sleeping.
> 
> You remember the incident Afghan taliban breached American Airbase and destroyed 6 fighter jets worth 100 million ?.
> 
> This is an active insurgency. This is the nature of war.



So I can also collect a bunch of yahoos and send them at 3 am night to attack Malir cantt here in Karachi? Or lets say on Shahbaz airbase in Jacobabad for that logic. Nice logic sir jee.


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Flight Lt Sarfraz Ahmed, Security Officer at PAF Base Peshawer, Under his Command, The Gaurds Repulsed the Attack and Stopped their Penetration into the Base Camp.

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## coffee_cup

Mr.Nair said:


> Abhe why you blame everything india.Take a look chain of events this mess happened in your country
> 
> 1. Soviet invade afghanistan
> 2. US with help of pakistan and taliban try to defeat soviet union
> 3. Taliban offense on US soil
> 4. Pakistan make support to US against taliban
> 5. In revenge taliban attack Pakistan
> 6. Pakistan lauched Zarb e azb
> 7. Taliban make counter revenge for zarb e azb
> 
> *Where is india coming in picture? India is least to blame your country mess.
> *
> @Shamain @Areesh @Windjammer @Zarvan @AsianUnion @coffee_cup @Mrc @Imran Khan @Foxtrot-Bravo @Basel @SarthakGanguly @karan.1970 @VelocuR



Indians support for cross-border terrorism in the region dates back 60-70s and still thriving. Be it Mukti Bahini, LTTE, BLA, and now TTP. 

Talibans only started in 90s.

So what point are you trying to make? 

Northern Alliance's love affair with India has even poetry about it.

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## indiatester

Reports that 42 people were killed. Is that true?
*42 dead in attack at PAF base in Peshawar — includes 13 attackers *


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## Areesh

indiatester said:


> Reports that 42 people were killed. Is that true?
> *42 dead in attack at PAF base in Peshawar — includes 13 attackers *



yeah that's true. And still we claim victory. How cool is that???


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## Bratva

Areesh said:


> So I can also collect a bunch of yahoos and send them at 3 am night to attack Malir cantt here in Karachi? Or lets say on Shahbaz airbase in Jacobabad for that logic. Nice logic sir jee.



Google Maps

This is location of PAF camp. Don't fret like women. See the population near by and tell if terrorists could be detected at 3 am in morning

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## Areesh

Bratva said:


> Google Maps
> 
> This is location of PAF camp. Don't fret like women. See the population near by and tell if terrorists could be detected at 3 am in morning



Oh cool. There is a whole fu*king population around the camp. Obviously no failure on the part of military. It is the fault of population living around this camp. Or it is the fault of terrorists who chose a target where military was napping after smoking charas. They should have chosen something difficult for them.


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## Robinhood Pandey

Areesh said:


> yeah that's true. And still we claim victory. How cool is that???



Areesh, 

Though me and you dont get along together very well ( for obvious reasons )

But , still u are expecting a lot from your Military

your Military is doing a very good job in eleminating these bastards.

Remember, terrorists need just one lucky escape to do something like this.

However that does not negate tens of bids foiled by your army.


Regards.

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## Mr.Nair

coffee_cup said:


> Indians support for cross-border terrorism in the region dates back 60-70s and still thriving. Be it Mukti Bahini, LTTE, BLA, and now TTP.
> 
> Talibans only started in 90s.
> 
> So what point are you trying to make?
> 
> Northern Alliance's love affair with India has even poetry about it.



So have you heard the mess daily like today in 60-70's in pakistan.You start blaming india because that's the best strategy by any one to protect by making counter arguments, so to protect your pet people like good taliban and other fanatics roam freely your country.Time will tell if you want peaceful pakistan or want your pet fanatics, choice is your's.

Your army can't dare to make any claim against US publicly, if do so then your army will loose fund from US,they keep economic sanctions against you and you can't raise kashmir issue.

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## Foxtrot Delta

Areesh said:


> yeah that's true. And still we claim victory. How cool is that???


*areesh there are no victories in a terrorist attack, just sadness anger death blood lost loved ones. Victory is in a military or diplomatic mission launched in retaliation of the terrorist episode. so dont hurry finding victory, you shall recieve news soon. this is a sad ocassion. this is the time for supporting our people and caring for the peoples families who lost their lives and.loved ones. VICTORY HUH! LAME !*


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## Areesh

Robinhood Pandey said:


> Areesh,
> 
> Though me and you dont get along together very well ( for obvious reasons )
> 
> But , still u are expecting a lot from your Military
> 
> your Military is doing a very good job in eleminating these bastards.
> 
> Remember, terrorists need just one lucky escape to do something like this.
> 
> However that does not negate tens of bids foiled by your army.
> 
> 
> Regards.



I am not expecting too much from them. I am expecting them to defend their own installments. Is that too much top ask? Can't they even defend their own installments? And killing 13 terrorists while they killed 29 of our is no achievement. Even ANA can do better than that. They might have negate dozens of other incidents but that doesn't change anything. Nobody in this world cares about those failed attempts. People only care what they see. And they have seen more than a dozen rats entering a PAF airbase and massacring its personnel at a time they wanted to.


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## coffee_cup

Areesh said:


> Oh cool. There is a whole fu*king population around the camp. Obviously no failure on the part of military. It is the fault of population living around this camp. Or it is the fault of terrorists who chose a target where military was napping after smoking charas. They should have chosen something difficult for them.



Chal bas kar yaar ab.

These things happen, even the most advanced country like Israel could not stop it from happening despite having such a small territory to protect and having the cutting edge equipment in the world available.

Sri Lanka? Had to fight hard against Indian terrorism for so many decades, but now they have finally win! But that was not overnight.

So despite the sprodic strikes taking place in our country (and I am afraid even in future we'll have to face them), we are winning the war against terrorism. Remember the situation in 2008-09 with dozens of bombs and terrorist strikes taking place every week? And now compare that with present to get an idea!


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## indiatester

Areesh said:


> yeah that's true. And still we claim victory. How cool is that???


Terrible loss of life. 
Hope you folks able to eliminate both the good terrorists and the bad terrorists regardless of who is supported by whom.


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## Areesh

Foxtrot Delta said:


> *areesh there are no victories in a terrorist attack, just sadness anger death blood lost loved ones. Victory is in a military or diplomatic mission launched in retaliation of the terrorist episode. so dont hurry finding victory, you shall recieve news soon. this is a sad ocassion. this is the time for supporting our people and caring for the peoples families who lost their lives and.loved ones. VICTORY HUH! LAME !*



Check our media. And even this forum. People are claiming victory.

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## Icarus

SrNair said:


> Sir you are a veteran expert .You have several times life experience than me



Oh come on, I am not that old!



SrNair said:


> On topic.Sir how could they manage to sneak in that PAF base without any problem?



The used numbers to overwhelm resistance and break in. 



SrNair said:


> They were around 13 terrorists .How could they hide these much of heavy arms from the survelliance of ISI?



They were travelling in a hijacked public wagon that travels by the same route. This and the time of their arrival, allowed them to escape any serious problem on their approach. 



SrNair said:


> And they know that they will slaughtered easily if they solely attack the base .So it seems they attacked those innocent people in mosque to vent out frustration.



Their plan was basically to attack the families in the living quarters but they were confined to the area around the MT and put down. If it wasn't for those junior technicians, this attack could have been an APS Peshawar 2.0

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## coffee_cup

Mr.Nair said:


> So have you heard the mess daily like today in 60-70's in pakistan.You start blaming india because that's the best strategy by any one to protect by making counter arguments, so to protect your pet people like good taliban and other fanatics roam freely your country.Time will tell if you want peaceful pakistan or want your pet fanatics, choice is your's.
> 
> Your army can't dare to make any claim against US publicly, if do so then your army will loose fund from US,they keep economic sanctions against you and you can't raise kashmir issue.



Ask Sri Lankans who have lost 10s of thousands due to Indian terrorism how they feel about it.

If there were 24/7 channels available in 60s and early 70s, attacks carried by Indian terrorists back then would have paled the one taking place today!


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## Irfan Baloch

karan.1970 said:


> Suddenly the COAS claims of rooting out terrorists and their network from the the tribal regions and the success of zarb e azb seem quite hollow. This wasnt a poor misguided SOB blowing himself in a crowded market. But a military style assault launched on the military target.


he was correct given the amount of terrorist infrastructure destroyed an their base of operation shifted to Afghanistan and not to forget the number of top tier terrorists killed and FATA people liberated from their extortions and brutality

sorry I meant to say your flame bait has failed

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## karan.1970

Bratva said:


> If your hollow brain paid attention. Terrorists came from Afghanistan. Through tirah valley travelling through rough patches. Attacked a area which is adjacent to one tribal agency.


How far away the base is from the border ?


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## coffee_cup

Areesh said:


> Check our media. And even this forum. People are claiming victory.
> 
> 
> 
> Bhai kis dunya main rehtai ho. Israel has successfully eliminated all threats to its state. When was the last time a suicide attack occurred in Israel? How many years ago?
> 
> And no we are not winning. The numbers have gone down but they are still achieving their objectives whenever they want to. They wanted to kill Punjab interior minister,. They did that. They wanted to massacre PAF personnel. They achieved that.
> 
> and don't give me Srilanka example. Srilanka was a much smaller and weaker country. No match with Pakistan. Despite wasting billions of this poor nation, if this military can't even defend their own installation then I don't know what good they are for.
> 
> Ab su35 bhi chahiye chutyon ko. Takai TTP un ko bhi urha dai.



And before Israel had won it, was it like there were terrorist strikes yesterday and as of today they were completely vanished?

Of course not, Israel had to fight it off for years if not decades.

So was the case with Sri Lanka.

So was the case with Spain and Ireland (all with different intensity).

It takes time, patience and iron resolve to defeat terrorism sponsored by a powerful enemy!


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## karan.1970

Irfan Baloch said:


> he was correct given the amount of terrorist infrastructure destroyed an their base of operation shifted to Afghanistan and not to forget the number of top tier terrorists killed and FATA people liberated from their extortions and brutality
> 
> sorry I meant to say your flame bait has failed


Wasn't intended to be.. Anyway.. too much emotions at this time and rightfully so. May will will pick up the discussion in a couple of days.

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## VelocuR

Please build Walls and Fences today, use common sense and no excuse. 
















Ask China to borrow money more than $10-15 Billion to build new massive walls and fences including 550 volts shock electricities if Pakistan have no money available.

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## coffee_cup

karan.1970 said:


> How far away the base is from the border ?



Almost the same as the distance between LTTE terrorist training camps in India and army bases in Sri Lanka.

That is, not exremely far away from determined terrorists and their sponsors.



VelocuR said:


> Please build Walls and Fences today, use common sense and no excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask China to borrow money more than $10-15 Billion to build new massive walls and fences including 550 volts shock electricities if Pakistan have no money available.



Hell, the wall can even be sponsored by taking 20% of the corruption money that is laying in accounts of Zardaris, Sharifs and co.

We must do it now, to hell with those jokers sitting in Kabul!

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## Mr.Nair

coffee_cup said:


> Ask Sri Lankans who have lost 10s of thousands due to Indian terrorism how they feel about it.
> 
> If there were 24/7 channels available in 60s and early 70s, attacks carried by Indian terrorists back then would have paled the one taking place today!



Indian's send peace keeping force in SL and some of our soldiers even lost life.Even Rajeev gandhi lost his life because of LTTE mess.Now you want to tell that india supported these fanatics? The organistaion was a banned in india.By the way do you know that tamil's are considered a second class citizens in SL.Do you know that SL soldiers killed several innocent life including the wife and children which have nothing to do with that organisation.Do you know what happened to the 1000's of victims in last days of SL war(I know it is a war).

You are just making some imaginative statements.

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## Foxtrot Delta

VelocuR said:


> Please build Walls and Fences today, use common sense and no excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask China to borrow money more than $10-15 Billion to build new massive walls and fences if Pakistan have no money available.


*in 2000 we were thinking of integrating pakistan amd afghanistan into one country later go with central asians now talks of building a wall. durrand line is a blessing for pakistan and a curse as well, depends on how we deal with it. i hope the decisions we take after this terrorist.attack help pakistan. IN SHA ALLAH terrorists are loosing and they will be finished soon atleast the TTP. and you shameless begger ask money from china. make our own economy chinese help where it is utmost needed. we should not borrow money. 7*


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## Bratva

karan.1970 said:


> How far away the base is from the border ?



How drugs produced in Afghanistan reaches europe and America with such ease ?

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## SrNair

Icarus said:


> Oh come on, I am not that old!
> 
> 
> 
> The used numbers to overwhelm resistance and break in.
> 
> 
> 
> They were travelling in a hijacked public wagon that travels by the same route. This and the time of their arrival, allowed them to escape any serious problem on their approach.
> 
> 
> 
> Their plan was basically to attack the families in the living quarters but they were confined to the area around the MT and put down. If it wasn't for those junior technicians, this attack could have been an APS Peshawar 2.0




Hmm.Time was crucial.They chose 5 am means entire arrangment was completed in that night .

Honestly those Junior technicians deserves your highest gallantry award.If they were not in there scums would have been created other APS attack.
Maximum damage and human casualities, that might have been their aim .Fortunately there was no weapon depot neaere to the attack place .


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## Windjammer

DG ISPR says, “We have recordings which reveal the attack was controlled from Afghanistan.” http://tribune.com.pk/story/959273/paf-base-attack-planned-in-afghanistan-dg-ispr/…

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## coffee_cup

Mr.Nair said:


> Indian's send peace keeping force in SL and some of our soldiers even lost life.Even Rajeev gandhi lost his life because of LTTE mess.Now you want to tell that india supported these fanatics? The organistaion was a banned in india.By the way do you know that tamil's are considered a second class citizens in SL.Do you know that SL soldiers killed several innocent life including the wife and children which have nothing to do with that organisation.Do you know what happened to the 1000's of victims in last days of SL war(I know it is a war).
> 
> You are just making some imaginative statements.



Lets stick with the facts first.

India has sponsored cross-border terrorism in Sri Lanka for decades. Later on to send few soldiers as canon fodder to fool the world does not count one bit. A better way would have been to officially apologize, punish the extremists who did it and compensate the victims families.

India MUST STOP sponsoring cross-border terrorism immediately.

Only this is what counts, no hogwash!


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## VelocuR

Probably Pakistan will forgot this attack from one week now, they will go back to usual business normal and drink good chai. 

There will be no thoughtful plans or solutions something like fixing borders instead blaming and bragging with Afghanistan governments and TTP groups for millions years all over again. 

Let's stop talking, build it.


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## Icarus

SrNair said:


> Hmm.Time was crucial.They chose 5 am means entire arrangment was completed in that night .
> 
> Honestly those Junior technicians deserves your highest gallantry award.If they were not in there scums would have been created other APS attack.
> Maximum damage and human casualities, that might have been their aim .Fortunately there was no weapon depot neaere to the attack place .



Yes, it was a residential area after all. There was never going to be a weapons depot there. You're right about the technicians, they showed noteworthy courage and a lot of nerve in the face of impossible odds.

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## SrNair

Irfan Baloch said:


> he was correct given the amount of terrorist infrastructure destroyed an their base of operation shifted to Afghanistan and not to forget the number of top tier terrorists killed and FATA people liberated from their extortions and brutality
> 
> sorry I meant to say your flame bait has failed




Is there is any truth in TTP allegations that PAF bombing destroyed their family ?
Because recent attacks are mainly targeting on Pak Forces families.That APS tragedy and now this .


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## Mr.Nair

coffee_cup said:


> Lets stick with the facts first.
> 
> India has sponsored cross-border terrorism in Sri Lanka for decades. Later on to send few soldiers as canon fodder to fool the world does not count one bit. A better way would have been to officially apologize, punish the extremists who did it and compensate the victims families.
> 
> India MUST STOP sponsoring cross-border terrorism immediately.
> 
> Only this is what counts, no hogwash!



Just hot air buddy i can also claim that pakistan send some fanatics to Mars,Jupiter etc...

Why world does not believe pakistan?

Instead of kashmir kashmir kashmir, why you can't think that we have to progress,create jobs for youths so that they will not fell in this trap of fanatics ! Better trade with india so that india can no longer neglect pakistan because of inter dependency on trade and you can progress in that process.I know i am talking to deaf ears....

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## Mrc

SrNair said:


> Is there is any truth in TTP allegations that PAF bombing destroyed their family ?
> Because recent attacks are mainly targeting on Pak Forces families.That APS tragedy and now this .




No...
And what did those christian churches destroy that they blew off...
What about womens bazaars and mosques??
This is not reactionary...
And it has happened before in islamic hostory...
These guys need to b slaughtered just more effectively..

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## Metanoia

It seems like they had inside info. as well. This raises another key point which is that until or unless the disease from within is not targeted, curing symptoms for temporary relief will be pointless in the longer run.


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## Mrc

As a security measure all roads leading to any defence related school college or establishment needs to be monitored with HD cameras in real time ideally with facial and number plate recogenition for at least couple of kilometers....just to give a heads up to defenders in case of suspicious activity...

Response to attack was adequate rather extremely efficient


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## Areesh

coffee_cup said:


> And before Israel had won it, was it like there were terrorist strikes yesterday and as of today they were completely vanished?
> 
> Of course not, Israel had to fight it off for years if not decades.
> 
> So was the case with Sri Lanka.
> 
> So was the case with Spain and Ireland (all with different intensity).
> 
> It takes time, patience and iron resolve to defeat terrorism sponsored by a powerful enemy!



This is what Israel has with Palestinian territory.







Do these jokers ruling this country have the guts to put up anything like this? Can they even put up a barb wire or a few meters with Afghanistan? No. Why? Because our "afghan brothers" don't accept durand line and hence we can't build anything with Afghan border. As for Srilanka. Srilankan bombed the f*ck out of LTTE strongholds. Irrespective of civilians or combatants they slaughtered whatever came in their way. Even UN calls for investigation on their so called human rights violations. While we cannot even dare to touch TTP leadership in Afghanistan. We can just beg to our "afghan brothers" to take care of TTP leadership which they always refuse after showing middle finger to us.

Stop comparing this impotent military with anyone else. This country is impotent. Everyone knows that.

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## Windjammer

SrNair said:


> Is there is any truth in TTP allegations that PAF bombing destroyed their family ?
> Because recent attacks are mainly targeting on Pak Forces families.That APS tragedy and now this .


Pakistan Navy is not operating at the Afghan border so what was the motive in attacking it's base in Karachi.
After repeated failed attempts to hit any strategic assets, they have turned attention to soft targets just to remain in limelight.

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## SrNair

Mrc said:


> No...
> And what did those christian churches destroy that they blew off...
> What about womens bazaars and mosques??
> This is not reactionary...
> And it has happened before in islamic hostory...
> These guys need to b slaughtered just more effectively..



Of Course not.But they are taking the risk to attack your Armed Forces base.They know they will slaughter easily ,yet they are taking that dangerous way.
They had been attack civilian target .But this time they specifically targeting soldiers annd their families.


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## Neutron

Solution


Surgical strikes inside Afghanistan 
covert operations against TTP 
Block funding and neutralize thier network
 They killed our people, kill thier few sympathizers across the border


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## Irfan Baloch

SrNair said:


> Is there is any truth in TTP allegations that PAF bombing destroyed their family ?
> .


can be true yes. we never claimed a civilian casualty free war.
by the way why quote TTP claim about their family deaths? they have even beheaded those in Sawat who sided with them and only saught their permission to leave the place when the army operation was imminent.
lets justify their terror on APS because army is killing their children, then why use Quran as a hidden IED? why kill the people of FATA kick them out of their homes and take away their shops? rape their women? they had nothing to do with the army?

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## In arduis fidelis

SrNair said:


> Is there is any truth in TTP allegations that PAF bombing destroyed their family ?
> Because recent attacks are mainly targeting on Pak Forces families.That APS tragedy and now this .


If they weren't before rest assured they will be bombed now.First they make it personal with army now they make it Personal with PAF and believe me they won't like what is coming their way right now.

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## Windjammer



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## SrNair

Windjammer said:


> Pakistan Navy is not operating at the Afghan border so what was the motive in attacking it's base in Karachi.
> After repeated failed attempts to hit any strategic assets, they have turned attention to soft targets just to remain in limelight.




So you are sure about that .There was no.collateral damage during PAF raiding .Right ?
This base was not a soft target.


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## Mrc

@Areesh cool it bro...
Criticism needs to be positive...
Negative one becomes propoganda ...and people think u are stupid


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## shaheenmissile

Mrc said:


> @Areesh cool it bro...
> Criticism needs to be positive...
> Negative one becomes propoganda ...and people think u are stupid


He is from Karachi and these days they are cross with Army for spanking of MQM.


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## SrNair

Irfan Baloch said:


> can be true yes. we never claimed a civilian casualty free war.
> by the way why quote TTP claim about their family deaths? they have even beheaded those in Sawat who sided with them and only saught their permission to leave the place when the army operation was imminent.
> lets justify their terror on APS because army is killing their children, then why use Quran as a hidden IED? why kill the people of FATA kick them out of their homes and take away their shops? rape their women? they had nothing to do with the army?




Seems like total Psychopaths.I think they have some sort of racial or ethnical propoganda to unleash these much terror against civilians.

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## Windjammer

SrNair said:


> So you are sure about that .There was no.collateral damage during PAF raiding .Right ?
> This base was not a soft target.


I am not saying there was no collateral damage and if they keep their families in caves with them then who is at fault.
PAF purposely would never attack civilians. Remember even during full scale war, PAF is under instruction not to open fire on civilian aircraft. As for not being a soft target, sure it had a guard room but didn't exactly have the security of an operational base since these were just residential compounds.

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## terry5

So now these self claimed pious Muslims have to kill people in deep prayer .
Lowest of the low

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## Adecypher

@Areesh I can understand the frustration you must be feeling...the collateral damage somehow remained high...just thinking out loud would it be possible to have multiple layered security perimeter so that as soon as the most outer one is breached (which is the farthest from the target) ... the forces have ample reactionary time to neutralize the threat with minimal loss of lives...?

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## Spectre

RIP martyrs, your sacrifices will not go in vain.

People from all corners of the world mourn your untimely passing, we have full faith that your brothers would bring those TTP cowards down with Extreme Prejudice. These people who attack a prayer gathering and innocent children are a blot on humanity.

With the threat environment Pakistan is facing, it is impossible to stop all such attacks. It just takes one try out 100 to succeed and wreak havoc. It is a worst kind of fight but take heart that days are not far when TTP will be wiped out of this universe. Do not dwell on your defeats for too long - mourn your warriors then fill your heart will steel for you have another fight coming up and this time you will persevere

To Pakistani Members - This information is public-ally available but not many analysts have covered it - GoI has iced it's relationship with Afganishtan despite many urgent pleas for more weapons and training. Whatever ill conceived notions existed regarding using unrest in Pakistan for strategic gains have all been chucked into dust-bin for perpetuity post Peshawar School Attack.

It is just my word out here - but NSA talks which were to happen was meant to benefit Pakistan way more than India as their was a covert proposal to expand inter agency co-operation on TTP and other actors inside Pakistan. This is why NS agreed to it but sadly it could not pan out due to media circus.

I hope in future we get another opportunity to collaborate on finishing these pigs.

Regards.

@Icarus

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## Mrc

Can any one even count the number of times these bitches has attacked civilian targets?? Than they bitch about collateral damage...yes its a war ... there may have been some civilians killed...hundred of thousand times less than killed by talibitches who make civilians there promary target...

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## iPhone

I'm with @Areesh on this one. This is once again a colossal failure on our end and a massive success for the ttp.

Ttp was successful the moment they crossed the Afghan border. And along the route, success after success when Pak security apparatus failed to intercept them at each pass through.

And the nail in the coffin when once again at the gates of military base they overcame the guards and caused such human tragedy inside.

There are so many security lapses and failures that I do not know where to begin. It boggles my mind that we don't have some sort of a massive alarm blaring alerting everyone on the base that we've come under attack.

People and soldiers get shot up sleeping in their quarters, praying, working on their daily routines, totally oblivious to the fact that terrorists have infiltrated the command.

And what do we celebrate afterwards? The dead terrorists. Oh, geez, they came to die anyway and ended up killing so many of ours.

Just look at the pictures being posted here, soldier with his child, they have families and kids, all of them are killed in a sense now. Imagine for a child to grow up with their father. Imagine a wife, a mother who doesn't have her son and her husband anymore. 

These aren't just 29 people but 29 families. And countless others that ttp have destroyed. Granted that we have made great success against them but the fact that they're still alive and operational is more than a reality that they won and continue to win.

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## The Vicious Kind

Areesh said:


> I am not expecting too much from them. I am expecting them to defend their own installments. Is that too much top ask? Can't they even defend their own installments? And killing 13 terrorists while they killed 29 of our is no achievement. Even ANA can do better than that. They might have negate dozens of other incidents but that doesn't change anything. Nobody in this world cares about those failed attempts. People only care what they see. And they have seen more than a dozen rats entering a PAF airbase and massacring its personnel at a time they wanted to.



They say this is the battle of wits but unfortunately ,we have to many dim-wits like you running around posting uneducated ,ignorant and to be very frank totally insensitive BS.

Please get this through your thick skull .Those assailants weren't yahoos as you call them .These were not your average TTP foot soilders.They were carefully selected , intensely trained battle hardened militants armed to the teeth. These aren't your local militant turned poppy farmer boys ,these are Uzbeks and Central asians .Many of them are ex-special forces who rebelled during the 80s. These guys posses sophisticated communication devices, bullet proof vests and even NVGs among other tactical gear. They come with the element of surprise and a one way ticket.

The information that is provided to the LEA by the Intelligence agencies is always limited .The info only points to which group might carry the attack , what the targets might be ( and often there are hundreds) .There are several reports issued every day and sometimes they are able to narrow them down and subdue their plans.Its like playing a game of whack-a-mole. The enemy is hidden and might appear anywhere at any given time.

Its just the nature of this type of warfare.Let me ask you this , after the attack on 911 , why was the white house still open to public tours ? , why did it still have a low fence .Because you can't build a fort around all your security installations. The US went after its threats abroad ,invested on intelligence gathering and improved surveillance at home . But still a bomb went of in Boston ,does that mean that Homeland security failed ? . No

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## Icarus

Adecypher said:


> @Areesh I can understand the frustration you must be feeling...the collateral damage somehow remained high...just thinking out loud would it be possible to have multiple layered security perimeter so that as soon as the most outer one is breached (which is the farthest from the target) ... the forces have ample reactionary time to neutralize the threat with minimal loss of lives...?
> View attachment 258151




I cannot talk about the security layout but whatever it was, it did its job and minimized casualty. Its easy to forget that the terrorists don't announce their arrival in advance and that such measure are in place all over the country and civil and military installations of sensitive nature. There were 29 people martyred out of which 16 were lost at the mosque alone, regrettable as that is, with the target density in the area in mind, it could have been much worse.

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## Mrc

SrNair said:


> Of Course not.But they are taking the risk to attack your Armed Forces base.They know they will slaughter easily ,yet they are taking that dangerous way.
> They had been attack civilian target .But this time they specifically targeting soldiers annd their families.




This time but thousands of times they have plainly targetted civilians...

Foot soldiers are idealogically brain washed..its not about revenge..

Its same idealogy as that of isis in iraq and syria

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## MastanKhan

Areesh said:


> Ghatiya performance by our security and intelligence forces. They managed to kill 16 of ours. It doesn't matter that we responded very quickly or not. They managed to get to their place of attack unchecked and they achieved what they wanted. Lakh lanat on our security and intelligence apparatus.




Hi,

That is a shameful post----. Just remember---the enemy gets to vote as well.

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## Super Falcon

I say nuke this cancer afghanistan pain for everyone once it for alltime to ask US are u with us or with india in afghanistan

If they do nothing to stop afghanistan indian funded terrorism

We ask russia to repeat afghanistan war this time we stand with mighty russian and US cannot do anything 

Let the game begin russia march on basterds afghanis


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## nForce

Thinkingsoldier said:


> Solution
> 
> 
> Surgical strikes inside Afghanistan
> covert operations against TTP
> Block funding and neutralize thier network
> They killed our people, kill thier few sympathizers across the border


Not a solution, because you cannot implement any.
1. You cannot go inside a sovereign country. They already hate you a lot, if you do that, you will have both the Taliban and ANA as your enemy.

2. You have no authoritative power to block funds or freeze accounts. It's a complicated process.



Super Falcon said:


> I say nuke this cancer afghanistan pain for everyone once it for alltime to ask US are u with us or with india in afghanistan
> 
> If they do nothing to stop afghanistan indian funded terrorism
> 
> We ask russia to repeat afghanistan war this time we stand with mighty russian and US cannot do anything
> 
> Let the game begin russia march on basterds afghanis


If someone like you manages to get to a position of power, then a lot of problems will be solved one way or other.

Good to have @Spectre back.

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## nomi007

i have one question to indian members

what afghan leaders with u 

ghouri & ghaznavi etc

and now u are the best friend of ur enemy


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## MastanKhan

muhammadali233 said:


> 16 namazis embraced martyrdom while offering fajar;surely no muslim can do that



We still have young ones who still do not know the realities of life and this world.


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## Windjammer

We lost 29 very valuable lives but just look at the weapons and explosives the scumbags had and how much worse damage they could have done if it wasn't the gallant effort of the security forces.

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## Irfan Baloch

Mr.Nair said:


> At least pakistan job is done by US,today's news
> 
> U.S. drone strike kills 7 in Pakistan - The Hindu




erm dont miss Afghanistan... American drones are doing our job in Afghanistan by Killing the TTP .. whether their hosts like it or not


U.S. drone strike kills 15 Pakistani Taliban in Afghanistan| Reuters

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## Windjammer

Take A Virtual Tour Through Deadly PAF Base Attack | SAMAA TV


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## SrNair

iPhone said:


> I'm with @Areesh on this one. This is once again a colossal failure on our end and a massive success for the ttp.
> 
> Ttp was successful the moment they crossed the Afghan border. And along the route, success after success when Pak security apparatus failed to intercept them at each pass through.
> 
> And the nail in the coffin when once again at the gates of military base they overcame the guards and caused such human tragedy inside.
> 
> There are so many security lapses and failures that I do not know where to begin. It boggles my mind that we don't have some sort of a massive alarm blaring alerting everyone on the base that we've come under attack.
> 
> People and soldiers get shot up sleeping in their quarters, praying, working on their daily routines, totally oblivious to the fact that terrorists have infiltrated the command.
> 
> And what do we celebrate afterwards? The dead terrorists. Oh, geez, they came to die anyway and ended up killing so many of ours.
> 
> Just look at the pictures being posted here, soldier with his child, they have families and kids, all of them are killed in a sense now. Imagine for a child to grow up with their father. Imagine a wife, a mother who doesn't have her son and her husband anymore.
> 
> These aren't just 29 people but 29 families. And countless others that ttp have destroyed. Granted that we have made great success against them but the fact that they're still alive and operational is more than a reality that they won and continue to win.





Well this is a occupational hazard of not only ISI but all other intel agencies in the world.You are blaming your institutions for these failure .Of Course this was a failure like we faced during 26/11 .But you dont know how many attempted have been thwarted so far successfully .
Public knows their failure but not their succe

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## nForce

I went through the last 8-10 pages..Can't remember when was the last time I did that for any topic here in PDF.

I'm with @Icarus on this one.

See, the system of policing basically works in a way, in which one can only take an action only after some incident has happened. Sure, we can have deterrence, protocols for security. But at the end of the day, one has to realize this, there is absolutely nothing that can stop a determined man from firing from his assault rifle. If he is motivated enough to do it, has access to the gun, then he will do it, with varying degree of effect. Probably the damages were really minimized in this case ? May be there could have been greater damage had the security not been alert ?

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## Adecypher

Icarus said:


> I cannot talk about the security layout but whatever it was, it did its job and minimized casualty. Its easy to forget that* the terrorists don't announce their arrival in advance* and that such measure are in place all over the country and civil and military installations of sensitive nature. There were 29 people martyred out of which 16 were lost at the mosque alone, regrettable as that is, with the target density in the area in mind, it could have been much worse.



Sir, with all due respect I still beg to differ, I do understand that terrorists won't send the invitation cards before their arrival to their intended targets but don't you think its about time we should re-access and re-draw our strategies to circumvent the precious loss of innocent lives whether it be through improving the "*local intelligence network*" or through re-designing the security perimeter around our sensitive (soft or hard) installations...I am not a security expert but if all incoming routes to the base had a check post or some sort of *surveillance mechanism* this could have been prevented...I think the bottom line is until and unless we plug the porous border between Pakistan and Afghanistan it will be really tough on ourselves to believe we will be able to thwart such incidents in the future...

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## nForce

nomi007 said:


> i have one question to indian members
> 
> what afghan leaders with u
> 
> ghouri & ghaznavi etc
> 
> and now u are the best friend of ur enemy


I will answer your question. Just can you be a little more clear ? It's difficult to understand.


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## Spring Onion

Mrc said:


> There are things which are different in this assault
> 
> 1- no suicide vests
> 2- in photograph released by ttp that red haired woman in back ground with flowing hair and no hijab
> 
> Thus angle needs to be looked at



1.that is not a woman but a man with long golden currely hair

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## Path-Finder

Well I am completely with the suggestion of building a wall along the Afghan border that is manned. What good is Zarb e Azb if these bastards have simply setup shop over the border to continue their activity and in this day of age there is no excuse that borders are left unmanned. 

We simply don't learn our lesson.


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## Menace2Society

Like I said if you don't take out the base of operations then this will keep happening. This is basic military 101. Somebody give me control of army and I will have this wrapped up in a week.

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## Icarus

Windjammer said:


> We lost 29 very valuable lives but just look at the weapons and explosives the scumbags had and how much worse damage they could have done if it wasn't the gallant effort of the security forces.



2000+ rounds of AP 7.62
~80 grenades 
RPGs
Several IEDs

Its apparent from the load out that these guys came here with the intent to:

1. Cause maximum damage
2. Hold out for as long as possible 
3. Make clearance a tough task by leaving behind traps
4. Using the confusion to escape like in the case of PNS Mehran attack. 

Luckily, these efforts were thwarted.

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## I.R.A

Well why not kill a target killer by a target killer? I have heard Zehr ka taryak zehr may he hota hai, after all we boast USSR defeat, so Radio is that mighty now or people supporting him are that powerful? Radio needs to feel threatened, unless this war reaches his defense layers, they will keep coming in groups and kill us because we have no will and no intention of fencing the border, Radio has access to easy supply with some bucks to pay or manipulate some brains. And let me say this, I am now pretty much fed up of caring for peace in Afghanistan at the cost of our own peace. We should have known that whenever there are positives signs for Afghan peace deal something happens, we should have been proactive but God knows better what we actually want, because it has been our chay policy to keep things secret and never tell public a sh*t. So keep this attitude of Don't trust the chay awam and keep seeing the results. And our relation with Afghans have become a joke Gilla bhi karna hay par thapar bhi khany hain.

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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> Well I am completely with the suggestion of building a wall along the Afghan border that is manned. What good is Zarb e Azb if these bastards have simply setup shop over the border to continue their activity and in this day of age there is no excuse that borders are left unmanned.
> 
> We simply don't learn our lesson.



Do you really think a wall will hold very long in a region where RPGs sell in the open market and a one tonne IED is considered routine?

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## Bilal Khan 777

PAF Camp Badaber has a technical area, which houses crucial R&D, support, development, and missile maintenance depots of Pakistan Air Force. This is no surprise that this base is attacked, as it handles key top secret projects of Pakistan Air Force. I am pleased to hear the successful QRF operation.

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## M.SAAD

Need to throw all Afghan refugees out of Pakistan, and ban all the madrassas ..


Heck, we cannot even close a certified terrorist hub aka. Lal Masjid in our capital, sad state of affairs, and such incidents will continue to happen until extreme and desperate measures are taken to save the Country ..



As they say, Desperate times requires Desperate measures .


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## Mahnoor khan

O God

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## nForce

Mahnoor khan said:


> O God


First post.. good start.

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## I.R.A

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> PAF Camp Badaber has a technical area, which houses crucial R&D, support, development, and missile maintenance depots of Pakistan Air Force. This is no surprise that this base is attacked, as it handles key top secret projects of Pakistan Air Force. I am pleased to hear the successful QRF operation.



and it had two technicians guarding it? Sorry I don't buy your statement.

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## Icarus

Adecypher said:


> Sir, with all due respect I still beg to differ, I do understand that terrorists won't send the invitation cards before their arrival to their intended targets but don't you think its about time we should re-access and re-draw our strategies to circumvent the precious loss of innocent lives whether it be through improving the "*local intelligence network*" or through re-designing the security perimeter around our sensitive (soft or hard) installations...I am not a security expert but if all incoming routes to the base had a check post or some sort of *surveillance mechanism* this could have been prevented...I think the bottom line is until and unless we plug the porous border between Pakistan and Afghanistan it will be really tough on ourselves to believe we will be able to thwart such incidents in the future...




Thank you for raising a very important point. 

At the moment, Pakistan boasts the largest intelligence apparatus by manpower however, the problem arises from the fact that the terrorists have also devised strategies to keep information breaches to a minimum even if one of the main culprits is captured. Attacks are broken down into phases, and people are tasked with completing their phase only, no questions asked. For example, there will be a contact who will collect the terrorists from drop point A and keep them for the night before dropping them off at drop point B. He does not know where these guys are coming from and where they are going, the terrorists themselves will know that they are going on a fidai hamla but the exact detail will only be revealed by the last operational handler. To further secure their own position, the attackers might be moved in small groups or individually over a course of weeks to avoid all of them being arrested in a bust.

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## Shamain

Menace2Society said:


> Like I said if you don't take out the base of operations then this will keep happening. This is basic military 101. Somebody give me control of army and I will have this wrapped up in a week.


True we are lamers


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## Mrc

Spring Onion said:


> 1.that is not a woman but a man with long golden currely hair




May be...but no facial hair while every other man is bearded...
Can that person b an ugly looking woman?


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## Icarus

Spring Onion said:


> 1.that is not a woman but a man with long golden currely hair



I think you broke the hearts of a number of wannabe jihadists today....

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## Dil Pakistan

*I don,t have a problem where they came from.

The problem is:

How did they travel inside Pakistan - who provided help ?

Where did they stay inside Pakistan ?

What is the complete network around them inside Pakistan ?*

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## Blue Marlin

i get that most dont mind seeing pictures of dead bodies (especially of militants, which i dont have a problem with), but i do mind. also i noticed @WebMaster, @Horus commented here. did they not see the images at the beginning of the thread?
what do you think @waz


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## Menace2Society

JDAM Kunar and Nuristan then deploy armored division.


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## M.SAAD

Btw: Such sort of attack cannot happen without some Inside intelligence and helping hand.


We got our GHQ attacked, ISI headquarter attacked, NAVAL bases attacked and now Airforce camps, this pattern clearly indicates the rogue elements in our armed and security forces .

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## shaheenmissile

So Who is the "Shaheed" again?
TTP or Him?


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## Icarus

Menace2Society said:


> Like I said if you don't take out the base of operations then this will keep happening. This is basic military 101. Somebody give me control of army and* I will have this wrapped up in a week.*



What is your plan Caesar?

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## Windjammer

Icarus said:


> 2000+ rounds of AP 7.62
> ~80 grenades
> RPGs
> Several IEDs
> 
> Its apparent from the load out that these guys came here with the intent to:
> 
> 1. Cause maximum damage
> 2. Hold out for as long as possible
> 3. Make clearance a tough task by leaving behind traps
> 4. Using the confusion to escape like in the case of PNS Mehran attack.
> 
> Luckily, these efforts were thwarted.



They had every intention to cause same if not worse bloodshed as APS.
It's a miracle that none of them got a chance to detonate their explosives.
All due to heroics of the security guards who pinned them down for good ten minutes before help arrived,

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## DV RULES

Irfan Baloch said:


> Asma Jhangir's missing persons ...
> glad that they are killed otherwise Ch Iftikhars love child judges would have suspended their sentences
> 
> 
> he needs to provide some proof rather than speaking like a TV host.
> 
> if he is so convinced then share more details *about how he knows and what is the location of the planners/ directors inside Afghanistan.*
> 
> SSG teams should be sent accross the border to gather evidence and best to bring one of such planners back. something which will be irrefutable and hard to dodge by any alleged foreign handler state or non-state actor/ director



Do you really think that they should share location etc in media ? Come On.


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## Super Falcon

IN ALLAH E WA IN AL RAJEOUN
WE ALL ARE MISSING ONE THING NO CODDMINATION CAME FROM AFGHAN GOVERNMENT YET

WE ALWAYS CONDEMN EVERY ATTACK ON AFGHAN SOIL

AND WE SEND OUR ENVOY FOR AFGHANISTAN TO ACT WHERE EVER TERRORIST HIDING

THEY ALWAYS BLAME PAK

NO YOU WANNA PLAY BLAME GAME YOU CANT HANDLE IF WE PLAY TOO

FOR WORLD PAK IS MORE IMPIRTANT GHAN AFGANISTAN

SO TIME TO SEND CLEAR MESSAGE TO AFGANIS ACT TOGETHER OR WE ACT AGAINST U

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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> Do you really think a wall will hold very long in a region where RPGs sell in the open market and a one tonne IED is considered routine?



Walls can't be used to slow down the enemy? Yes of-course there is IED, RPG available but a obstruction that possesses the capacity to slow down to prevent any infiltration, is it better than no obstruction where they can easily stroll into and out of? Time has come where excuses like cost or lenght of border, terrain can no longer be accepted.


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## Menace2Society

Icarus said:


> What is your plan Caesar?



Promise Taliban keys to Kabul in exchange to ally against TTP and help to wipe out from within Afghanistan.

Shock and awe air strikes in Kunar and Nuristan to take out Fazullah then full ground invasion. This is the only way.

Afghanistan are doing this to spite Pakistan. They don't want it to become peaceful and grow. Unless you de-seat Afghan politicians and somehow bribe your way to pro Pakistani Afghan politicians then time to break off relations with them and take out TTP base.

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## Spectre

Icarus said:


> Thank you for raising a very important point.
> 
> At the moment, Pakistan boasts the largest intelligence apparatus by manpower however, the problem arises from the fact that the terrorists have also devised strategies to keep information breaches to a minimum even if one of the main culprits is captured. Attacks are broken down into phases, and people are tasked with completing their phase only, no questions asked. For example, there will be a contact who will collect the terrorists from drop point A and keep them for the night before dropping them off at drop point B. He does not know where these guys are coming from and where they are going, the terrorists themselves will know that they are going on a fidai hamla but the exact detail will only be revealed by the last operational handler. To further secure their own position, the attackers might be moved in small groups or individually over a course of weeks to avoid all of them being arrested in a bust.



Sir

Taking an analogy of terrorism as a disease - Whatever military/security options we employ are like paracetamol - which abates the symptoms which in this case are overt attacks on civilians and defense targets. Unless a proper diagnosis is made about the root causes of such disease, there will be a relapse. Root causes in this case may be:

1. Poverty - - Terrorism for Money?
2. Unemployment - Lack of options
3. Misguided Ideology - No idea about what is Islam just brainwashed by some Mullahs or people with nefarious intent.
4. Foreign Influence - Afganishtan/India/US
5. Domestic protection - by some extremist mullahs and their collaborators

Pakistani members would be better able to point out the root-causes anyway my point is we have to eliminate their grievances at the core, re-educate them, provide them with alternative careers, bring in social development in worst affected areas.

Ofcourse none of this can be done until the symptoms abate hence military is absolutely necessary to punish and eliminate those who are lost cases but any military action should be supported politically in terms of rehabilitation and increased political attention on the afflicted areas. Otherwise all the sacrifices and gains would be lost and these scums would produce a new generation of scums in this forever war.

This is were we failed in India during Maoists and Kashmir Insurgency - Hope you guys learn from our mistakes. Keep your politicians on tight leash so that resources go where they are most needed.

Regards

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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> Walls can't be used to slow down the enemy? Yes of-course there is IED, RPG available but a obstruction that possesses the capacity to slow down to prevent any infiltration, is it better than no obstruction where they can easily stroll into and out of? Time has come where excuses like cost or lenght of border, terrain can no longer be accepted.



Its a 2250km border, most of it mountainous. Even if you ignore the cost and length, the structural challenge alone of it will consign the plan to failure. Lets not forget that Musharraf tried to fence the border during his tenure but the erected sections of the fence were uprooted and sold for scrap faster than they were raised.


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## Shamain

Menace2Society said:


> Promise Taliban keys to Kabul in exchange to ally against TTP and help to wipe out from within Afghanistan.
> 
> Shock and awe air strikes in Kunar and Nuristan to take out Fazullah then full ground invasion. This is the only way.
> 
> Afghanistan are doing this to spite Pakistan. They don't want it to become peaceful and grow. Unless you de-seat Afghan politicians and somehow bribe your way to pro Pakistani Afghan politicians then time to break off relations with them and take out TTP base.


And send afghan refugees back home.

And @Areesh got banned? :-( He got too angry , tho he was making sense. We have our shares of flaws too .



Icarus said:


> Its a 2250km border, most of it mountainous. Even if you ignore the cost and length, the structural challenge alone of it will consign the plan to failure. Lets not forget that Musharraf tried to fence the border during his tenure but the erected sections of the fence were uprooted and sold for scrap faster than they were raised.


we shud plant some radioactive explosives or some such crap there. Might work?

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## IndoCarib

AsianUnion said:


> More like Hindustani terrorists, but seems not a big base, not much loss.


 
Your own newspapers say they are Taliban. When do you start blamimg yourself for your own failures ?


----------



## Icarus

Menace2Society said:


> Promise Taliban keys to Kabul in exchange to ally against TTP and help to wipe out from within Afghanistan.
> 
> Shock and awe air strikes in Kunar and Nuristan to take out Fazullah then full ground invasion. This is the only way.
> 
> Afghanistan are doing this to spite Pakistan. They don't want it to become peaceful and grow. Unless you de-seat Afghan politicians and somehow bribe your way to pro Pakistani Afghan politicians then time to break off relations with them and take out TTP base.



1. We cannot bomb a sovereign nation and ground incursions are out of the question too. 
2. Subverting an internationally recognized government won't gain us many browny points. 
3. The Afghan Taliban and TTP are joined at the hip, you may see two heads but start exploring and eventually you find the link, there's no way they are going to turn on their own brethren and weaken themselves. And even if some of the commanders do turn, there is a new commander every 30-50 square kilometer, how many can we convince to side with us in turn for the keys to Kabul?



Shamain said:


> And send afghan refugees back home.
> 
> And @Areesh got banned? :-( He got too angry , tho he was making sense. We have our shares of flaws too .
> 
> 
> we shud plant some radioactive explosives or some such crap there. Might work?




1. If you get enough infractions, you get banned automatically, that's what happened I guess. 
2. Once again, its 2250km long.

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## jaibi

I feel sad that despite spending so much time on PDF people have no idea how LIC work. Firstly, the ISI is not the boogyman, it's an organisation manned by humans. Therefore, from a number of threats that arise in any security calulation set ups some would be captured some would be missed or be encountered later on. This loop is regretted but entirely unavoidable, India has not experienced the same level of LIC as we have so this may be condonable for you guys to get. It was the raised level of alert that thwarted the TTP from doing any real damage. Yes, you read that right: this number of casualty is not real damage as we are at war. Literally.

Secondly, the enemy adapts the local population to camouflage itself in. By eye, you cannot tell who's the TTP and who isn't, this is not a political problem as most people think but a cultural one. For centuries the pakhtun culture, which is highly individualistic, values armament, simplicity and rugged lifestyle. If you were to visit KPK then most of the time you'd be jumping and screaming (not meaning you personally just using second-pov) most of the time because most of the male population looks like the boogyman terrorist you're used to seeing on the media. Though, they're just like you and me, many are highly educated and we're no one to judge them. Thus, the TTP succeed in blending in, notice the timing of the attack, most probably, it was during change of guard where the vigilance hits a low and they attacked. Yet, this was a TTP defeat, not a PAF one. Compare what happened to previous attacks.

If you need more conviction that Pak armed forces have broken the backs of the TTP then I'd like to inform you that the US visits us and tries to learn from us how to perform well in LICs. FYI, Swat valley ops were the biggest urban infantry battle since WWII (and we did much better than the US in Falujah). Next, the more desperate the attacks get the more they signal the last attempts of TTP, here their most probable target were families, not equipment.

Thirdly, this attack was to cause as much damage as possible, not hold something (strategic) or damage something invaluable (like planes, hardware, even tarmac!) but just to kill people. Most of them non-combatants in an attempt to demoralise the nation, just like they did in the APS peshawar attack. Guess what? It back fired. This was to answer against our COAS leading the bombardment against the TTP. It failed to demoralise us and thanks to everyone's vigilance failed.

I hope everyone gets it.

@EVERYONE if you guys need assurance that this is truly so please search Shuja Nawaz's Learn from doing. It'd clear up a lot of what I've said on this topic. <EDIT>



SrNair said:


> Sir you are a veteran expert .You have several times life experience than me
> 
> On topic.Sir how could they manage to sneak in that PAF base without any problem?They were around 13 terrorists .How could they hide these much of heavy arms from the survelliance of ISI?
> And they know that they will slaughtered easily if they solely attack the base .So it seems they attacked those innocent people in mosque to vent out frustration.

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## DV RULES

Spring Onion said:


> 1. Since the call to made to claim responsibility for the attack has said to be made from Afghanistan
> 2. Since Mansoor Omar or Omar Mansoor (whatever is the sequence) is said to be the mastermind of this attack and he is in Afghanistan
> 3 Their communication has been intercepted and the records has been obtained
> 
> So these could be the basis for his statement *. As far as sending SSGs to Afghanistan well even in mess the fact is Afghanistan is a sovereign country you cant just send your uniformed personnel to take someone out* but yes if we can have a mutual pact



In particular issues......a sovereignty is respected when it is sovereign in true nature..........
Pakistan just have to pass resolution in NA in favour of Pakistan military permitting them launching military covert or overt operation. That's only matter of courage and there will be lesson for next 365 days for sovereign country how make itself sovereign being not to be Puppet of India.

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## Icarus

Spectre said:


> Sir
> 
> Taking an analogy of terrorism as a disease - Whatever military/security options we employ are like paracetamol - which abates the symptoms which in this case are overt attacks on civilians and defense targets. Unless a proper diagnosis is made about the root causes of such disease which in this case may be:
> 
> 1. Poverty - - Terrorism for Money?
> 2. Unemployment - Lack of options
> 3. Misguided Ideology - No idea about what is Islam just brainwashed by some Mullahs or people with nefarious intent.
> 4. Foreign Influence - Afganishtan/India/US
> 5. Domestic protection - by some extremist mullahs and their collaborators
> 
> Pakistani members would be better able to point out the root-causes anyway my point is we have to eliminate their grievances at the core, re-educate them, provide them with alternative careers, bring in social development in worst affected areas.
> 
> Ofcourse none of this can be done until the symptoms abate hence military is absolutely necessary to punish and eliminate those who are lost cases but any military action should be supported politically in terms of rehabilitation and increased political attention on the afflicted areas. Otherwise all the sacrifices and gains would be lost and these scums would produce a new generation of scums in this forever war.
> 
> This is were we failed in India during Maoists and Kashmir Insurgency - Hope you guys learn from our mistakes. Keep your politicians on tight leash so that resources go where they are most needed.
> 
> Regards




Many of these measures are already in effect, however unlike the Maoist Insurgency which has a politico-economic theory at its core, the TTP have a religious ideology that means that it has much greater appeal, social penetration and is also producing more dedicated soldiers. However, Pakistan has had plenty of "trial and error" experiences and each day, the strategy is tweaked just a little bit to make it more effective.

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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> Its a 2250km border, most of it mountainous. Even if you ignore the cost and length, the structural challenge alone of it will consign the plan to failure. Lets not forget that Musharraf tried to fence the border during his tenure but the erected sections of the fence were uprooted and sold for scrap faster than they were raised.



How long is the great wall of China? When was that built? It unless I am wrong has been built over various terrains. Not a 100% defense solution but it played a major role in keeping China safe. That was centuries ago I am right to assume with the technological advanced made it can be better built.

What happened in the past is the excess baggage that we no longer need this plan should be thought of again just because in the previous tenure it was not properly executed is no excuse to plan it better NOW.


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## jaibi

Actually the corresponding 'attack' that the civilian government or institutions need to do such as offer rehabilitation and civics are lacking the swiftness of the armed response. Once we catch up. It's over for them.


Icarus said:


> Many of these measures are already in effect, however unlike the Maoist Insurgency which has a politico-economic theory at its core, the TTP have a religious ideology that means that it has much greater appeal, social penetration and is also producing more dedicated soldiers. However, Pakistan has had plenty of "trial and error" experiences and each day, the strategy is tweaked just a little bit to make it more effective.

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## Spring Onion

Icarus said:


> I think you broke the hearts of a number of wannabe jihadists *today*....



 YEH TODAY's "jihiltalaban"

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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> How long is the great wall of China? When was that built? It unless I am wrong has been built over various terrains. Not a 100% defense solution but it played a major role in keeping China safe. That was centuries ago I am right to assume with the technological advanced made it can be better built.
> 
> What happened in the past is the excess baggage that we no longer need this plan should be thought of again just because in the previous tenure it was not properly executed is no excuse to plan it better NOW.



My friend, the Great Wall was built during imperial times when a royal decree used to get things done regardless of losses. Fast forward to modern day and how do you propose paying for a 2250km long wall? The labour costs? The costs for providing security and services to the labour force? 
And if we manage to make a wall of China 2.0, the enemy are not Mongols armed with bows and arrows who will be at a loss on how to scale a wall. A single bomber will be able to create a breach and the traffic will continue. Will you then propose posting guards at 100 feet from one another to ensure that as soon as a breach has occurred, it is reported and resistance mobilized?


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## sady

Inna nillah e wa ina ellaehi rajioon...Shahadat lucky 26.
However we must understand few things,
1.Do we know how much man power is required to man the security cordons with men changing shifts? We Pakistanis do not have limitless resources. There cannot be ten people manning guard rooms to match firepower of 13 men all the time. The outer parameters will be breached, however there should be two layers of parameters atleast specially for Masjids and residential areas. The second role is of QRF. The main safety net.
2 QRF did its job so all in all the system worked, which is a good news . You cannot hope for better in wars like these.
3 Intelligence could have been better, but ISI is very stretched by fighting simultaneously with three-four of worlds best Intelligence agencies.
4 the disease lies in Afghanistan. Pakistan is between a rock and a hard place. We cannot create a precedent for cross border raids because killing TTP leadership is meaningless in the current scenario.There are plenty of mercenaries who will eagerly takeover as next pawns. Baitullah Mehsud, Hakimullah, Umar Khurasaani, Fazalullah are just Aliases. It does not take long to glamorise another name. Pakistan needs to fight the symptoms till it can be strong enough to tackle the disease itself and that is to continue the current course, build CPEC and strong democracy with good governance. These terrorists are now not strong enough to suppress economic growth anymore IA.

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## Shamain

Icarus said:


> 1. We cannot bomb a sovereign nation and ground incursions are out of the question too.
> 2. Subverting an internationally recognized government won't gain us many browny points.
> 3. The Afghan Taliban and TTP are joined at the hip, you may see two heads but start exploring and eventually you find the link, there's no way they are going to turn on their own brethren and weaken themselves. And even if some of the commanders do turn, there is a new commander every 30-50 square kilometer, how many can we convince to side with us in turn for the keys to Kabul?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. If you get enough infractions, you get banned automatically, that's what happened I guess.
> 2. Once again, its 2250km long.


If afghan talibans and ttp dogs are so well connected with each other than why we have provided asylum to afghan talibs' heads? Why dont we kick them out or hand them over to usa. Do we not have them hiding in pakistan? I always thought.

As of long border and difficult terrain ,yes i know abt it , have read abt it several times and the reason we havent been able to fence or guard it. Tho idont know in detail. My comment was out of anger .

And no if afghans can allow attacks like aps on our soil then hell with their sovereignty. And this fresh attack was also directed from there. We dont care abt such sovereignty which has ruined the peace of our state. Saray ghatiya neighbours pakistan ko hee milnay thay.

@menac2society i totally support u in bombing ttp hideouts in afghanistan. But i know no one will make u coas.

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## nForce

Path-Finder said:


> How long is the great wall of China? When was that built? It unless I am wrong has been built over various terrains. Not a 100% defense solution but it played a major role in keeping China safe. That was centuries ago I am right to assume with the technological advanced made it can be better built.
> 
> What happened in the past is the excess baggage that we no longer need this plan should be thought of again just because in the previous tenure it was not properly executed is no excuse to plan it better NOW.



The great wall of China was supposed to protect against horse hordes and arrows.

Can Pakistan afford building a similar fence and the manpower to man it ? You already have a very romantic story going on in your eastern border.

What about Afghan reaction on Durand line ? You will have Afghan reaction even before you will be able to complete 10%.

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## jaibi

Agreed and @Path Finder , throughout no wall has stood forever. We'd beat them but I personally believe we need this bloody war as it would ensure that our hardest moments would enable us to give rise to a better, safer and, yes, stronger nation. 

Pakistan zindabad.


Icarus said:


> My friend, the Great Wall was built during imperial times when a royal decree used to get things done regardless of losses. Fast forward to modern day and how do you propose paying for a 2250km long wall? The labour costs? The costs for providing security and services to the labour force?
> And if we manage to make a wall of China 2.0, the enemy are not Mongols armed with bows and arrows who will be at a loss on how to scale a wall. A single bomber will be able to create a breach and the traffic will continue. Will you then propose posting guards at 100 feet from one another to ensure that as soon as a breach has occurred, it is reported and resistance mobilized?



Again, I believe your premise is that we're 'losing', eh? 


nForce said:


> The great wall of China was supposed to protect against horse hordes and arrows.
> 
> Can Pakistan afford building a similar fence and the manpower to man it ? You already have a very romantic story going on in your eastern border.
> 
> What about Afghan reaction on Durand line ? You will have Afghan reaction even before you will be able to complete 10%.

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## Shamain

And our intel agencies need to think what could be the next prospective location for attack. May God save us.
We know that they are in a habit of attacking friday congregations.


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## jaibi

Be brave, brother. Today was a victory from what could have been... I suppose most people are not aware of what's going on.


Shamain said:


> And our intel agencies need to think what could be the next prospective location for attack. May God save us.
> We know that they are in a habit of attacking friday congregations.

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## nForce

jaibi said:


> Again, I believe your premise is that we're 'losing', eh?


Nope. Not presently. Replying to the flag as usual.


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## Shamain

jaibi said:


> Be brave, brother. Today was a victory from what could have been... I suppose most people are not aware of what's going on.


No i do understad a major tragedy has been averted. But we know we havent entirely won the battle. And well what i wrote that was for precaution.... not demeaning our forces. I think my post sent out a wrong a message.

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## Marshmallow

Icarus said:


> 1. We cannot bomb a sovereign nation and ground incursions are out of the question too.
> 2. Subverting an internationally recognized government won't gain us many browny points.
> 3. The Afghan Taliban and TTP are joined at the hip, you may see two heads but start exploring and eventually you find the link, there's no way they are going to turn on their own brethren and weaken themselves. And even if some of the commanders do turn, there is a new commander every 30-50 square kilometer, how many can we convince to side with us in turn for the keys to Kabul?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. If you get enough infractions, you get banned automatically, that's what happened I guess.
> 2. Once again, its 2250km long.




I could read the last two pages just briefly and with due respect,what sorta *CounterTerrorism Expert* you are who while replying to the number of suggestions given by some members here to the issue in discussion, could only come up with the solutions such as "Nae Ye Bhi Nae Husakta" "Wo Bhi Nae Husakta" "Ye Impossible Hey" "Ye Tu Sochna Bhi Mut"... Tu Ye Tu Wo" etc etc

Yeh we should just sit like losers...eat Maggi Noodles or Chocolate Fudge Cake while watching the deaths of our Jawans and Civilians every other day!!! Yeah Right!

Im starting to so very much hate this country "Afghanistan" and its Inhabitants!

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## jaibi

To show the people how we are feeling. One of my friends fought today and all of us texted him congratulations. That's the level of motivation that the TTP is against.

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## Spectre

Icarus said:


> Many of these measures are already in effect, however unlike the Maoist Insurgency which has a politico-economic theory at its core, the TTP have a religious ideology that means that it has much greater appeal, social penetration and is also producing more dedicated soldiers. However, Pakistan has had plenty of "trial and error" experiences and each day, the strategy is tweaked just a little bit to make it more effective.



If what you say is true then I can infer one of two things:

1. TTP is on it's last legs and a year or two of intense operations would finish them - like LTTE and this attack was just a desperate attempt to keep the moral high for their cadre and show that they are still strong. 

2, TTP is getting resources/motivation from certain parties which allows them to re-group outside of Pakistan and then infiltrate again at strength and will to cause chaos. They are also being provided sanctuaries and support within Pakistan 

In the latter case their are some hard decisions due which may involve attacking their infrastructure in Afganishtan with US support or without it. Building an electrified fence with manned sentry posts at short intervals - Expensive and prone to vandalization, massive army mobilization at the AF-PaK border which might be tricky considering tensions with India. 

Another option would be empower local civil militias against TTP - do not know if it is feasible or what is the view of local tribes on TTP.

But as the Maxim goes - Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

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## jaibi

Haha, no brother, we're itching for an encounter with these bastards. I suppose, I want to share that motivation with you!


Shamain said:


> No i do understad a major tragedy has been averted. But we know we havent entirely won the battle. And well what i wrote that was for precaution.... not demeaning our forces. I think my post sent out a wrong a message.

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## Spring Onion

DV RULES said:


> In particular issues......a sovereignty is respected when it is sovereign in true nature..........
> Pakistan just have to pass resolution in NA in favour of Pakistan military permitting them launching military covert or overt operation. That's only matter of courage and there will be lesson for next 365 days for sovereign country how make itself sovereign being not to be Puppet of India.



Icarus has already explained that but to mention once again NO you cannot, it is NOT a matter of courage but it is a matter of using brain and making tactical moves instead of any direct covert of overt operation against Afghanistan. Since US and Afghanistan have already been accusing Pakistan of the same but they could not launch any such operation on a mass scale against Pakistan? why ? because it unites the terrorists and bring even common man into the folds of terrorists

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## jaibi

The situation is a bit more complicated than that, Sino, I believe, I'd need to write an article on what's truly going on. 


Sino Dragon said:


> I am following this thread since noon and have gone through man pages. Why Mr Arresh got banned ? He was making sense. If I am not wrong this war is going on since last 10 years. I was watching a debate in Chinese news channel today and they were saying the same thing. It's been long, just carrying out operation is not going to give results. Kill all those who are supporting them in Pakistan. Sorry to say but there are supporters within your population who has sympathy towards them. You can bomb one place and can defy their activities for some time but you cannot end them like this.
> 
> I am sorry for all the life lost today and don't want to see it again but it is completely an intelligence failure and that too when you are fighting a war.

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## Shot-Caller

Icarus said:


> My friend, the Great Wall was built during imperial times when a royal decree used to get things done regardless of losses. Fast forward to modern day and how do you propose paying for a 2250km long wall? The labour costs? The costs for providing security and services to the labour force?
> And if we manage to make a wall of China 2.0, the enemy are not Mongols armed with bows and arrows who will be at a loss on how to scale a wall. A single bomber will be able to create a breach and the traffic will continue. Will you then propose posting guards at 100 feet from one another to ensure that as soon as a breach has occurred, it is reported and resistance mobilized?


So how do you suggest we neutralize the threat from Afghanistan?

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## jaibi

Then you've no idea what NLI and FF did to the TTP and PS the Pakhtuns FC are the first line against the TTP these are the guys who cleared Swat. These are cowards. You cannot solve problems by reducing populations into stereotypes.


Last Samuri said:


> Unless you kill amd massacare your own kind the PAKHTUNS you will lose this war.
> 
> Russia tried and LOST for ten years
> USA tried & LOST for 13 years
> 
> BILLIONS $$$$ spent they did not understand the language culture the dress code the religion.
> 
> Can Pakistan spend the money and time and the lives to take on a ENTIRE CIVILISATION like the afghan/pak Taliban.
> 
> I THINK NOT.
> 
> REASON.
> 
> Your country is to fixated on the regioinal super power NEXT DOOR.
> 
> Which means bomb blasts internal strife killings and taliban culture will keep seeping into Pakistan
> 
> its a vicious circle

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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> My friend, the Great Wall was built during imperial times when a royal decree used to get things done regardless of losses. Fast forward to modern day and how do you propose paying for a 2250km long wall? The labour costs? The costs for providing security and services to the labour force?
> And if we manage to make a wall of China 2.0, the enemy are not Mongols armed with bows and arrows who will be at a loss on how to scale a wall. A single bomber will be able to create a breach and the traffic will continue. Will you then propose posting guards at 100 feet from one another to ensure that as soon as a breach has occurred, it is reported and resistance mobilized?



Again I am no expert but you are as it appears! if we cannot build an obstruction or even sit to plan one or come up with should we twiddle with our thumbs. 2250km? when there is a will to do something it can be achieved surely you cant strike this down either. Surely a wall covering will not be built overnight but over the years. Surely funds could be allocated if we can build metros and other fancy projects surely we can do better balancing of the budget for it. We have been loosing public for years because of bombings has that deterred people that much are people who build this wont know what they are likely to loose their life. I am sure you will be able to find some labor. out of population of millions we cannot even get enough to man a border. aren't their electronic devices available in this day of age for a response either?

Are we that incompetent.

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## Icarus

Marshmallow said:


> I could read the last two pages just briefly and with due respect,what sorta *CounterTerrorism Expert* you are who while replying to the number of suggestions given by some members here to the issue in discussion, could only come up with the solutions such as "Nae Ye Bhi Nae Husakta" "Wo Bhi Nae Husakta" "Ye Impossible Hey" "Ye Tu Sochna Bhi Mut"... Tu Ye Tu Wo" etc etc
> 
> Yeh we should just sit like losers...eat Maggi Noodles or Chocolate Fudge Cake while watching the deaths of our Jawans and Civilians every other day!!! Yeah Right!
> 
> Im starting to so very much hate this country "Afghanistan" and its Inhabitants!




I wouldn't be an expert if I chose to totally disregard ground realities and global conventions to jump on the same bandwagon as everyone else start beating my chest for war against Afghanistan. The world is not as simple as "Hey, I'm going to invade your country, topple your government and maybe bomb two of your provinces while we're at it, hope you don't mind". 
LIC is the long fight, once you're in, you better have the capacity and the tenacity to take it right down to the end. If you start losing your **** after every single attack, then you should best be prepared for defeat.

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## Last Samuri

The afghans Taliban have destroyed their own country
Their religious ideology and Sept 11 HAVE MADE the WEST the sworn emeny of islam globally
AND they will slowly eat at Pakistans already stretch resources and leave Pakistan financially weak and divided


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## jaibi

The TTP are a self-sustained system, I wrote an article a while back here on PDF on how they operate. I'll search it out.


Spectre said:


> If what you say is true then I can infer one of two things:
> 
> 1. TTP is on it's last legs and a year or two of intense operations would finish them - like LTTE and this attack was just a desperate attempt to keep the moral high for their cadre and show that they are still strong.
> 
> 2, TTP is getting resources/motivation from certain parties which allows them to re-group outside of Pakistan and then infiltrate again at strength and will to cause chaos. They are also being provided sanctuaries and support within Pakistan
> 
> In the latter case their are some hard decisions due which may involve attacking their infrastructure in Afganishtan with US support or without it. Building an electrified fence with manned sentry posts at short intervals - Expensive and prone to vandalization, massive army mobilization at the AF-PaK border which might be tricky considering tensions with India.
> 
> Another option would be empower local civil militias against TTP - do not know if it is feasible or what is the view of local tribes on TTP.
> 
> But as the Maxim goes - Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.



Sino, I'll write a detalied paper on it. I see this problem with a lot of people. If you could wait just a while?


Sino Dragon said:


> There should be someone funding it. Since we don't know much because our media does not cover much. What does Pakistan intelligence take on it ? They could not have come out of thin air and started killing your people. They are highly trained with sophisticated weapons and a target. Someone should be finding them, training them, giving shelter and to be precise some kind of intel too. Who are those agencies ?

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## coffee_cup

Menace2Society said:


> Like I said if you don't take out the base of operations then this will keep happening. This is basic military 101. Somebody give me control of army and I will have this wrapped up in a week.



And how are you going to handle likes of Asma Jahangir, Marvi Sirmid, DAWN, Express Tribune, Geo, and so many others foreign NGO funded peopel / organisations. 

That would be interesting to know, may be you can give some ideas to our higher ups who matter.



Spring Onion said:


> 1.that is not a woman but a man with long golden currely hair



Yeah they make some of them to dress and act like women.

These TTP terrorists are famous for that.


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## jaibi

Hey, little Marsha, how're you? 

Don't hate anyone, this is a mess that had a history in the making it. Our resilient little nation, just like you, is fighting against the socio-history of over 300 years and we're coming out as winners. Isn't that great? We lost a few brave men but how many did we save?


Marshmallow said:


> I could read the last two pages just briefly and with due respect,what sorta *CounterTerrorism Expert* you are who while replying to the number of suggestions given by some members here to the issue in discussion, could only come up with the solutions such as "Nae Ye Bhi Nae Husakta" "Wo Bhi Nae Husakta" "Ye Impossible Hey" "Ye Tu Sochna Bhi Mut"... Tu Ye Tu Wo" etc etc
> 
> Yeh we should just sit like losers...eat Maggi Noodles or Chocolate Fudge Cake while watching the deaths of our Jawans and Civilians every other day!!! Yeah Right!
> 
> Im starting to so very much hate this country "Afghanistan" and its Inhabitants!

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## Hurter



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## jaibi

Great to know  you'll enjoy it 


Sino Dragon said:


> Sure. I am very eager to know about it.


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## CENTCOM

Our thoughts and prayers are with the friends and families of the brave military personnel who lost their lives in this act of terror. Once again the terrorists have shown that they will stop at nothing to push their terrorist agenda forward. We take our hat off to the brave Pakistani security forces that refuse to let these terrorists succeed and continue to lay their lives down for the country. We stand with Pakistan in its fight against terrorism. We are hopeful that day is not far when peace will prevail throughout the country.

Ali Khan
Digital Engagement Team, USCENTCOM

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## pkuser2k12



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## Mrc

single wall securtiy fences are of no use any way... 
there should be an outer smaller wall and inner taller wall. with guards place on inner wall and 10 feet difference between them filled with boby traps and land mines


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## Icarus

Shot-Caller said:


> So how do you suggest we neutralize the threat from Afghanistan?



Well for starters, the Durand Line is very porous and that is what leads to a number of infiltration cases.However, these crossing are also used by the locals who inhabit both sides of the border and still maintain family connections. An attempt to check the cross border movement can involve each agency being granted one crossing point over seen by the FC with biometric system to keep tabs on all people crossing over. 
Another attempt should involve a policy of engaging targets in or near border regions including pursuing targets into Afghan territory if need be (there is already precedent for this). If the Afghans don't exercise their writ, we will have to do so for them. 
Lastly, occupying the positions that the ANA has vacated allows us greater control over mountain crossings and vantage point over the Kunnar valley which allows us to use mortars to great effect. Once again, this policy is already being pursued. 
As you can see, the security forces are cognizant of the measures needed to control cross border terrorism and are taking the necessary steps, forceful ones included, in order to suppress the threat and improve the security situation. 
Like I said, it is a slow and agonizing war which cannot be won by rash decisions, it has to be played out tactfully.



Path-Finder said:


> Again I am no expert but you are as it appears! if we cannot build an obstruction or even sit to plan one or come up with should we twiddle with our thumbs. 2250km? when there is a will to do something it can be achieved surely you cant strike this down either. Surely a wall covering will not be built overnight but over the years. Surely funds could be allocated if we can build metros and other fancy projects surely we can do better balancing of the budget for it. We have been loosing public for years because of bombings has that deterred people that much are people who build this wont know what they are likely to loose their life. I am sure you will be able to find some labor. out of population of millions we cannot even get enough to man a border. aren't their electronic devices available in this day of age for a response either?
> 
> Are we that incompetent.



Answered

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## Marshmallow

Icarus said:


> I wouldn't be an expert if I chose to totally disregard ground realities and global conventions to jump on the same bandwagon as everyone else start beating my chest for war against Afghanistan. The world is not as simple as *"Hey, I'm going to invade your country, topple your government and maybe bomb two of your provinces while we're at it, hope you don't mind"*.
> LIC is the long fight, once you're in, you better have the capacity and the tenacity to take it right down to the end. If you start losing your **** after every single attack, then you should best be prepared for defeat.


If not that then atleast dont make them look like our well-wishers or brothers etc...I respect Gen Raheel alot and he is one of my fav people but i really didnt like it when he,in his speech on 6th Sep said that"Afghanistan Sey Humara Khoon Ka Rishta Hey" ..Please for God sake be realistic,they have never been our best buddies/Brothers and never will! 

Heck with this type of fake Brotherhood and Friendship!

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## coffee_cup

Spectre said:


> Sir
> 
> Taking an analogy of terrorism as a disease - Whatever military/security options we employ are like paracetamol - which abates the symptoms which in this case are overt attacks on civilians and defense targets. Unless a proper diagnosis is made about the root causes of such disease which in this case may be:
> 
> 1. Poverty - - Terrorism for Money?
> 2. Unemployment - Lack of options
> 3. Misguided Ideology - No idea about what is Islam just brainwashed by some Mullahs or people with nefarious intent.
> 4. Foreign Influence - Afganishtan/India/US
> 5. Domestic protection - by some extremist mullahs and their collaborators
> 
> Pakistani members would be better able to point out the root-causes anyway my point is we have to eliminate their grievances at the core, re-educate them, provide them with alternative careers, bring in social development in worst affected areas.
> 
> Ofcourse none of this can be done until the symptoms abate hence military is absolutely necessary to punish and eliminate those who are lost cases but any military action should be supported politically in terms of rehabilitation and increased political attention on the afflicted areas. Otherwise all the sacrifices and gains would be lost and these scums would produce a new generation of scums in this forever war.
> 
> This is were we failed in India during Maoists and Kashmir Insurgency - Hope you guys learn from our mistakes. Keep your politicians on tight leash so that resources go where they are most needed.
> 
> Regards



See man, these kinds of fault lines exist in almost every third world country. In India they are perhaps 100 times worse than in Pakistan. 

But it the "someone" who is exploiting these fault lines must be taken care of. 

Someone who has both great financial resources at hand and determination to cause maximum damage to Pakistan, to keep it in line. 

Now I know, you are not gonna like it, but given the history and evidence, India fullfills this criteria and is the main suspect here. Right now Pakistan is moving in the right direction and many higher-ups sitting in Indian govt don't like it for several reasons. 

They will exploit all the foot soldiers both from Pakistan and Afghanistan to cause maximum damage to Pakistani economy and its reputation. 

Yes we have our fault lines, just like you have yours. But I am quite sure, once those fund and free training stops flowing from the East all the way via Afghanistan into Pakistan, the terrorism in Pakistan will come down to at least 80%.


Just stating the facts here, nothing personal!

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## jaibi

No, mate, I'd have to write it. It'd take a few days, at least.


Sino Dragon said:


> Will you share it in few minutes mate ? It is too late at my place.

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## jaibi

A lot of the Afghani people are settled here in Pakistan. They too do not support the TTP, in fact, very few people support the TTP. Our divisions and politics is what lets them thrive. To work against it, we need to start getting courteous and cordial with each other.


Marshmallow said:


> If not that then atleast dont make them look like our well-wishers or brothers etc...I respect Gen Raheel alot and he is one of my fav people but i really didnt like it when he,in his speech on 6th Sep said that"Afghanistan Sey Humara Khoon Ka Rishta Hey" ..Please for God sake be realistic,they have never been our best buddies/Brothers and never will!
> 
> Heck with this type of fake Brotherhood and Friendship!

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## Icarus

Marshmallow said:


> If not that then atleast dont make them look like our well-wishers or brothers etc...I respect Gen Raheel alot and he is one of my fav people but i really didnt like it when he,in his speech on 6th Sep said that"Afghanistan Sey Humara Khoon Ka Rishta Hey" ..Please for God sake be realistic,they have never been our best buddies/Brothers and never will!
> 
> Heck with this type of fake Brotherhood and Friendship!



Diplomatic composure is very important. You might have read that we once pursued the policy of opposing PRC's secession to the UNSC permanent seat for China however through diplomatic efforts, we became very close allies at one time. Just because we have had a contentious history with Afghanistan does not mean that we need also have a bleak future as well. Like it or not, we have to keep Afghanistan in our fold or risk having India at both of our borders.


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## Shot-Caller

Icarus said:


> Well for starters, the Durand Line is very porous and that is what leads to a number of infiltration cases.However, these crossing are also used by the locals who inhabit both sides of the border and still maintain family connections. An attempt to check the cross border movement can involve each agency being granted one crossing point over seen by the FC with biometric system to keep tabs on all people crossing over.
> Another attempt should involve a policy of engaging targets in or near border regions including pursuing targets into Afghan territory if need be (there is already precedent for this). If the Afghans don't exercise their writ, we will have to do so for them.
> Lastly, occupying the positions that the ANA has vacated allows us greater control over mountain crossings and vantage point over the Kunnar valley which allows us to use mortars to great effect. Once again, this policy is already being pursued.
> As you can see, the security forces are cognizant of the measures needed to control cross border terrorism and are taking the necessary steps, forceful ones included, in order to suppress the threat and improve the security situation.
> Like I said, it is a slow and agonizing war which cannot be won by rash decisions, it has to be played out tactfully.
> 
> 
> 
> Answered


I agree with you this is a slow process and so far security forces and intelligence have done well. We must not lose hope after one incident. And I do hope a strategy like you stated is being planned to keep the Afghan side safe.

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## Thunder.Storm



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## Informant

Wait 3 days. That's all i am going to say.

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## Raja.Pakistani

Very tragic incident. Its sad to see that these bastards are killing Muslims in mosques when they are offering prayers and mosques are places where people go for peace and tranquillity .RIP to all shaheeds. Its time to take serious action against Afghanistan who is keep sending these terrorists to our soil and has become a safe heaven for terrorists. Why we don't capture some terrorists alive to find out who is sponsoring and supporting them in such acts of barbarism and to bring them live on tv after their confession to expose our internal and external enemy? There would be some Taliban sympathiser on our soils and we need to eliminate them first


[video]


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## Mrc

the thought that mastermind is sleeping comfortably tonight in a mudhut in afghanistan.............

atleast put some fear of god in their soul
we have armed drones, use them.....


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## Spectre

coffee_cup said:


> See man, these kinds of fault lines exist in almost every third world country. In India they are perhaps 100 times worse than in Pakistan.
> 
> But it the "someone" who is exploiting these fault lines must be taken care of.
> 
> Someone who has both great financial resources at hand and determination to cause maximum damage to Pakistan, to keep it in line.
> 
> Now I know, you are not gonna like it, but given the history and evidence, India fullfills this criteria and is the main suspect here. Right now Pakistan is moving in the right direction and many higher-ups sitting in Indian govt don't like it for several reasons.
> 
> They will exploit all the foot soldiers both from Pakistan and Afghanistan to cause maximum damage to Pakistani economy and its reputation.
> 
> Yes we have our fault lines, just like you have yours. But I am quite sure, once those fund and free training stops flowing from the East all the way via Afghanistan into Pakistan, the terrorism in Pakistan will come down to at least 80%.
> 
> 
> Just stating the facts here, nothing personal!



No offense man, I have always regarded your posts with respect even if I vehemently disagree with them.

Hoping I am not going off -topic I would like to offer a rebuttal.

You are right when you say India has the motive and means to sponsor TTP inside Pakistan. I would be lying if I refuted this.

Now motive and means are not sufficient to indict someone specially a country. We require hard evidence too and so far we have seen little to none verified evidences of our support to TTP.

What you would like from us is the proof of our non involvement - unfortunately as of yet there is no way to proove a negative.

On the other hand it is quite possible we were involved with BLA which was in response to Kashmir and Punjab but I hope you would take my word on it that any such support has been put on hold after the last tragedy. With Involvement of China and Russia we even decided to co-operate in issues regarding terrorism which included terrorism in Pakistan too. Would have been a great opportunity for our agencies to exchange information on TTP and their supply lines in Afganishtan. Both India and Pakistan would have prevailed on Afganishtan to attack these terrorist sanctuaries but that chance was lost. TTP is no friend on India and with it's linkages with ISIS our agencies would not touch them with a 100 ft pole. We have a common interest in eradicating TTP and other groups in Afganishtan so that S. Asia can get peace back.

Thus you see mate - our interests are converging and behind the seen via US there is lot of intelligence being passed on about TTP and ISIS from Indian sources in Afganishtan.

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## Hulk

Areesh said:


> They have done a pathetic job. they failed their oath and this country. 29 Pakistanis who lost their lives today are a proof of it. The mockery that we faced today in front of whole is a proof of it.


Sorry but do not think you have any idea of what you are talking about. No country be attack proof, Pakistan has significantly reduce terrorist attacks. Its seems like at-least 75% reduction. Where we use to hear daily major attacks there is hardly any on monthly basis.

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## pakdefender

*I don,t have a problem where they came from.

The problem is:

How did they travel inside Pakistan - who provided help ?

Where did they stay inside Pakistan ?

What is the complete network around them inside Pakistan ?*[/QUOTE]


It all in Peshawar now , the loss of their sanctuaries due to operations in FATA has made them move into Peshawar. Next operations has to be done in Peshawar and surrounding areas


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## karan.1970

Raja.Pakistani said:


> Very tragic incident. Its sad to see that these bastards are killing Muslims in mosques when they are offering prayers and mosques are places where people go for peace and tranquillity .RIP to all shaheeds. Its time to take serious action against Afghanistan who is keep sending these terrorists to our soil and has become a safe heaven for terrorists. *Why we don't capture some terrorists alive to find out who is sponsoring and supporting them in such acts of barbarism and to bring them live on tv after their confession to expose our internal and external enemy?* There would be some Taliban sympathiser on our soils and we need to eliminate them first


Its a very valid question. May be the army does not want the Pakistani public to know the answer to this question. That's why there is not a single terrorist caught by Pakistan which can point towards the standard boogeymen used by Pakistani army. Think about it.


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## Informant

Sino Dragon said:


> To forget it or to avenge it ?



Neither. Wait 3 days.


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## Raja.Pakistani

Thunder.Storm said:


> View attachment 258253


There is difference between bravery and suicide . Proper equipments need to be installed at such places


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## EagleEyes

blue marlin said:


> i get that most dont mind seeing pictures of dead bodies (especially of militants, which i dont have a problem with), but i do mind. also i noticed @WebMaster, @Horus commented here. did they not see the images at the beginning of the thread?
> what do you think @waz



I think it skipped through our mind. But yes, not allowed.

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## jaibi

We already have. 


karan.1970 said:


> Its a very valid question. May be the army does not want the Pakistani public to know the answer to this question. That's why there is not a single terrorist caught by Pakistan which can point towards the standard boogeymen used by Pakistani army. Think about it.


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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> Answered



If you are a expert than God help us.


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## coffee_cup

Spectre said:


> No offense man, I have always regarded your posts with respect even if I vehemently disagree with them.
> 
> Hoping I am not going off -topic I would like to offer a rebuttal.
> 
> You are right when you say India has the motive and means to sponsor TTP inside Pakistan. I would be lying if I refuted this.
> 
> Now motive and means are not sufficient to indict someone specially a country. We require hard evidence too and so far we have seen little to none verified evidences of our support to TTP.
> 
> What you would like from us is the proof of our non involvement - unfortunately as of yet there is no way to proove a negative.
> 
> On the other hand it is quite possible we were involved with BLA which was in response to Kashmir and Punjab but I hope you would take my word on it that any such support has been put on hold after the last tragedy. With Involvement of China and Russia we even decided to co-operate in issues regarding terrorism which included terrorism in Pakistan too. Would have been a great opportunity for our agencies to exchange information on TTP and their supply lines in Afganishtan. Both India and Pakistan would have prevailed on Afganishtan to attack these terrorist sanctuaries but that chance was lost. TTP is no friend on India and with it's linkages with ISIS our agencies would not touch them with a 100 ft pole. We have a common interest in eradicating TTP and other groups in Afganishtan so that S. Asia can get peace back.
> 
> Thus you see mate - our interests are converging and behind the seen via US there is lot of intelligence being passed on about TTP and ISIS from Indian sources in Afganishtan.



In dirty games of geopliticis when it comes to safeguarding own national interests, it becomes a pure case of "enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenrio. Throughout the history world has seen very strange bed-fellows when it comes to inflicting damage on the enemy. 

Thus the thoughts of USA sponsoring likes of OBL and Mujahideen (the predecessor of Talibans), inviting them to the White House and equating them with Founding Fathers of the Nation would make absolutely no sense in academic circles, but reality says otherwise.

Right now India has every reason and motivation to support TTP. They don't have to agree with their ideology and at the face of it even arrange spordic fights with them to make a point. Don't we see similar things happening in Syria where the worst of fanatics are being supported none other than the West to fight against Asad?

So while the likes of Ajit Devil, Manohar and co sitting in the govt, Modi pating them on the back, and ready foot soldiers available in Afghanistan in form of TTP, Northern Alliance etc, you are telling me, India is just not interested and not providing them any support (financial, training etc.).?

Well even a 10th grade pupil can count these simple factors. There is a load of hard evidence available, also provided to the relevant powers. Of course no single power in the world is at the moment interested in going against the business interests that they have with India and hence won't say it loud. Now and then, we do hear odd voices like that of Chuck Hagel's etc, which get burried under the other media frency going on.

The world of evidence is quite crazy, can you prove that USA has supported OBL in the past and is supporting all those fanatics against Asad in Syria? Good luck with that! All what counts is the perception which media plants in the minds of masses and not the reality. Therefore, there is fat chance that India will get away with it at least for now.

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## Neutron

We are fighting with non state actors

They are well camouflaged with the population. Therefore it is very difficult to differentiate between friend and foes. 
 They are free to choose target according to their strength
Choice of time of attack is thier prerogative
Deception is important element of warfare. 

Stonewall Jackson made good use of deception during the American Civil War. In 1862, following a series of harrying attacks along the Shenandoah valley, his army marched in secret to attack McClellan at Richmond, Virginia. Jackson spread rumours that he was heading in a different direction, and even sent engineers to survey the fictional route. His army was kept under strict orders not to talk about, or even know, where they actually were, or were headed.

If non state actors can merge in the society , why can't state actors ? (In tribal areas)
Only one covert division is sufficient enough to dismantle TTP.

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## Blue Marlin

thanks, appreciated


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## forcetrip

Spectre said:


> No offense man, I have always regarded your posts with respect even if I vehemently disagree with them.
> 
> Hoping I am not going off -topic I would like to offer a rebuttal.
> 
> You are right when you say India has the motive and means to sponsor TTP inside Pakistan. I would be lying if I refuted this.
> 
> Now motive and means are not sufficient to indict someone specially a country. We require hard evidence too and so far we have seen little to none verified evidences of our support to TTP.
> 
> What you would like from us is the proof of our non involvement - unfortunately as of yet there is no way to proove a negative.
> 
> On the other hand it is quite possible we were involved with BLA which was in response to Kashmir and Punjab but I hope you would take my word on it that any such support has been put on hold after the last tragedy. With Involvement of China and Russia we even decided to co-operate in issues regarding terrorism which included terrorism in Pakistan too. Would have been a great opportunity for our agencies to exchange information on TTP and their supply lines in Afganishtan. Both India and Pakistan would have prevailed on Afganishtan to attack these terrorist sanctuaries but that chance was lost. TTP is no friend on India and with it's linkages with ISIS our agencies would not touch them with a 100 ft pole. We have a common interest in eradicating TTP and other groups in Afganishtan so that S. Asia can get peace back.
> 
> Thus you see mate - our interests are converging and behind the seen via US there is lot of intelligence being passed on about TTP and ISIS from Indian sources in Afganishtan.



The absence of evidence is no evidence at all. TTP is no enemy of India. We will provide you with dossiers like you provided us with. And the wheel will keep turning. There was a time 15 years ago our intel agencies were on the offensive and after 9/11 they got on the back foot. The pool we have to play with is not just the odd number of Kashmiris anymore. In 15 years after 1998 that pool has grown to 200 million. All that is required is the amount of money that India is playing with. If in 5 years we somehow match our enemies dollar for dollar in proxy war chests with a little help from our friends, Who do you think will be on top?

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## Bratva

Informant said:


> Wait 3 days. That's all i am going to say.



Itnay app bengaali baba rehtay nahi


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## Spectre

forcetrip said:


> The absence of evidence is no evidence at all. TTP is no enemy of India. We will provide you with dossiers like you provided us with. And the wheel will keep turning. There was a time 15 years ago our intel agencies were on the offensive and after 9/11 they got on the back foot. The pool we have to play with is not just the odd number of Kashmiris anymore. In 15 years after 1998 that pool has grown to 200 million. All that is required is the amount of money that India is playing with. If in 5 years we somehow match our enemies dollar for dollar in proxy war chests with a little help from our friends, Who do you think will be on top?



This game has no winners mate, only losers. I would love to debate you on the 200 Mil number and the friends angle but I think this is not the thread for it.


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## forcetrip

Spectre said:


> This game has no winners mate, only losers. I would love to debate you on the 200 Mil number and the friends angle but I think this is not the thread for it.



But of course. I was just trying to invigorate the stories of the what if's. Us not being members of the intelligence agencies putting forward theories of no evidence on this forum equals to India having no funds to TTP or any other anti Pakistani outfit.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Cowardly attack on people busy offering prayers. Glad the terrorists were sent to hell. Time to retaliate with full-swing. It wont be complete till we go after their financiers/backers across the border. 

RIP to the Martyrs. Their deaths will be avenged God willing



coffee_cup said:


> In dirty games of geopliticis when it comes to safeguarding own national interests, it becomes a pure case of "enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenrio. Throughout the history world has seen very strange bed-fellows when it comes to inflicting damage on the enemy.
> 
> Thus the thoughts of USA sponsoring likes of OBL and Mujahideen (the predecessor of Talibans), inviting them to the White House and equating them with Founding Fathers of the Nation would make absolutely no sense in academic circles, but reality says otherwise.
> 
> Right now India has every reason and motivation to support TTP. They don't have to agree with their ideology and at the face of it even arrange spordic fights with them to make a point. Don't we see similar things happening in Syria where the worst of fanatics are being supported none other than the West to fight against Asad?
> 
> So while the likes of Ajit Devil, Manohar and co sitting in the govt, Modi pating them on the back, and ready foot soldiers available in Afghanistan in form of TTP, Northern Alliance etc, you are telling me, India is just not interested and not providing them any support (financial, training etc.).?
> 
> Well even a 10th grade pupil can count these simple factors. There is a load of hard evidence available, also provided to the relevant powers. Of course no single power in the world is at the moment interested in going against the business interests that they have with India and hence won't say it loud. Now and then, we do hear odd voices like that of Chuck Hagel's etc, which get burried under the other media frency going on.
> 
> The world of evidence is quite crazy, can you prove that USA has supported OBL in the past and is supporting all those fanatics against Asad in Syria? Good luck with that! All what counts is the perception which media plants in the minds of masses and not the reality. Therefore, there is fat chance that India will get away with it at least for now.



we already know its well-established that india supports TTP, BLA and other groups......what our response will be to this as well as ceasefire violations @ LoC/working boundary will be seen soon i really hope

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## waz

Windjammer said:


> Even while he was injured, Captain Asfandyar sent four scum bags to hell before achieving martyrdom.
> Thank you warrior may you rest in peace.



Allah Akbar....

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## DV RULES

jaibi said:


> I feel sad that despite spending so much time on PDF people have no idea how LIC work. Firstly, the ISI is not the boogyman, it's an organisation manned by humans. Therefore, from a number of threats that arise in any security calulation set ups some would be captured some would be missed or be encountered later on. This loop is regretted but entirely unavoidable, India has not experienced the same level of LIC as we have so this may be condonable for you guys to get. It was the raised level of alert that thwarted the TTP from doing any real damage. Yes, you read that right: this number of casualty is not real damage as we are at war. Literally.
> 
> Secondly, the enemy adapts the local population to camouflage itself in. By eye, you cannot tell who's the TTP and who isn't, this is not a political problem as most people think but a cultural one. For centuries the pakhtun culture, which is highly individualistic, values armament, simplicity and rugged lifestyle. If you were to visit KPK then most of the time you'd be jumping and screaming (not meaning you personally just using second-pov) most of the time because most of the male population looks like the boogyman terrorist you're used to seeing on the media. Though, they're just like you and me, many are highly educated and we're no one to judge them. Thus, the TTP succeed in blending in, notice the timing of the attack, most probably, it was during change of guard where the vigilance hits a low and they attacked. Yet, this was a TTP defeat, not a PAF one. Compare what happened to previous attacks.
> 
> If you need more conviction that Pak armed forces have broken the backs of the TTP then I'd like to inform you that the US visits us and tries to learn from us how to perform well in LICs. FYI, Swat valley ops were the biggest urban infantry battle since WWII (and we did much better than the US in Falujah). Next, the more desperate the attacks get the more they signal the last attempts of TTP, here their most probable target were families, not equipment.
> 
> Thirdly, this attack was to cause as much damage as possible, not hold something (strategic) or damage something invaluable (like planes, hardware, even tarmac!) but just to kill people. Most of them non-combatants in an attempt to demoralise the nation, just like they did in the APS peshawar attack. Guess what? It back fired. This was to answer against our COAS leading the bombardment against the TTP. It failed to demoralise us and thanks to everyone's vigilance failed.
> 
> *I hope everyone gets it.*
> 
> @EVERYONE if you guys need assurance that this is truly so please search Shuja Nawaz's Learn from doing. It'd clear up a lot of what I've said on this topic. <EDIT>



Wow, You are talking like when everyone supposed to be obliged to agree with you!

In my point of view, that was Intelligence/counter-Intelligence fault no matter (ABCDEFGHIJK which agencies) and security laps. 

That's debatable the intensity of intelligence required in Afghanistan to thwart any potential mishap and how.


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## haviZsultan

Bratva said:


> If your hollow brain paid attention. Terrorists came from Afghanistan. Through tirah valley travelling through rough patches. Attacked a area which is adjacent to one tribal agency.


Peshawar is very close to Khyber but the main problem is not in Khyber which has the highest literacy rate in the tribal regions higher than Kohistan, it also has Jamrud the most developed town in FATA where there is even a top mens/womens college, though a public one. It was attacked and destroyed by the Taliban and LeI has hold of the western regions while Tirah is also a battleground for some TTP elements mostly in the west too. They are led by 2 figures who began fighting each other but I do not remember the name. It is included in my report of the Taliban leadership throughout FATA and KPK. 

The main problem actually or the artery of the taliban is south waziristan and that also the Maseed regions. I have been told that around 60% of the TTP cadres are Maseed. So its become a tribal thing too. Wazirs and even Burkis have often been at loggerheads with the Mehsuds/Maseeds. Though of course all Mehsuds are not bad but it tells us why the army invokes the collective responsibilities act which I say should be repealed.

Anyway thats my assesment. Afghanistan and its support to TTP militats along with India also are part of the problem.



DV RULES said:


> Wow, You are talking like when everyone supposed to be obliged to agree with you!
> 
> In my point of view, that was Intelligence/counter-Intelligence fault no matter (ABCDEFGHIJK which agencies) and security laps.
> 
> That's debatable the intensity of intelligence required in Afghanistan to thwart any potential mishap and how.


Welll thats looking at the situation critically. We clearly need to be pro active and stop terrorist attacks before they occur. This has been happening for a while though with many terrorists captured since the APS attack. But more needs to be done. We need to infiltrate them. I can go myself and try if security wants it. I want to do my part as a citizen. We need proper intelligence about them and need to break their back.

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## Neutron

We are not innovative enough as far as our strategy is concerned. We are fighting non conventional war primarily as per conventional tactics.

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## DV RULES

Spring Onion said:


> Icarus has already explained that *but to mention once again NO you cannot, it is NOT a matter of courage but it is a matter of using brain and making tactical moves* instead of any direct covert of overt operation against Afghanistan. Since US and Afghanistan have already been accusing Pakistan of the same but they could not launch any such operation on a mass scale against Pakistan? why ? because it unites the terrorists and bring even common man into the folds of terrorists



I am not suggesting taking axes and intrude Afghanistan in line...........that's in common sense that there always a plan to make any bold step when it is damn needed.

By launching military offenses against culprits will not change the ideological position of environment but yes an hit to brains in Kabul that next could be they are who are planning by sitting in NDS HQ.

Afghanistan has no ability and military power to challenge and US will not go for because after all that will be in their interests too.

Now we are talking about apprehension of some Hardcore Terrorists to bring into justice and there is no guaranty that it will make ideological rift within terrorists mind as for Pakistan/US collectively couldn't because of nature of war went out of ideological level into power & money doctrines of individual entity of every gun carry.

These morons are attacking Pakistan because they are thinking that we are bluffing and beside loud claims from Civilian and military leadership we couldn't make decisive step to handle situation. Once there will be military surgical/targeted operation inside Afghanistan all doubts will be turned into solid proof explaining Pakistan's commitment to protect its borders & people.
At least an example should be shown to masterminds in Kabul.

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## Danish saleem

Dalit said:


> We know who these people are. Let me be very blunt here. These Salafi b@stards have no faith. They are cold-blooded murderers. *No more funding from oil rich Arabs for the Salafi brand of hate inside Pakistan.* We know what the problem is and we need to address it from its root cause. Arab funding for Salafism has destroyed Pakistan. At the same time, kick every illegal and criminal Afghan out of Pakistan. Once you address both these issues we'll be chocking the oxygen for attacks inside our nation.



here u came, bro, try to spread love not hate!
in every sect we witness terrorist, and not only Arab, Iran also supporting mass murderers like bashir ul Asad!


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## SecularNationalist

PAF camp badaber is very important for me as i spent my infant years(1990-1992) over there.But according to my parents those were peaceful times.
Now it,s time to invade Afghanistan and kick all remaining afghans from pakistan.Afghanistan should be part of operation zarb e azb to eliminate all afghan terrorist scum.

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## DV RULES

haviZsultan said:


> Well thats looking at the situation critically. We clearly need to be pro active and stop terrorist attacks before they occur. This has been happening for a while though with many terrorists captured since the APS attack. But more needs to be done. We need to infiltrate them. I can go myself and try if security wants it. I want to do my part as a citizen. We need proper intelligence about them and need to break their back.



That is appreciable thinking indeed. That's the fact that despite sever security faults and intelligence loop holes it will be utter injustice to blame over overall capabilities and expertise of Pakistan Military. There is need of review of security and intelligence covers for all installations either they are operational of not or camps etc.

Either prime intelligence agencies will perform itself a true foreign intelligence network like Octopus in South Asia & in the world or there is urgent need of formation of Dedicated foreign intelligence network capable of having eyes and ears in the world to save Pakistan and its national interests and to save its people.


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## Reverse Thinker

very unfortunate incident 29 people have embraced shadat, why our border with afghanistan is not sealed how they enter to our country, what resources they used to breach each and every barrier and enter to the cities and even enter into militiry basess or near base areas with massive weapons? why we not make fool prof roads going to militry instalations & camp bases so that no way left for these dogs to easily go there? terrorest going to attack militry basess using indian satelite technologies & google maps why pakistan have no counter measure to these types of 4rth generation wars


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## waz

Allah bless the shaheed. 
I'm sorry but base security needs a massive overhaul, as attackers shouldn't be able to get past the first line of defence. Small radar systems to detect incoming threats, then Steel walls, after-which there is razor wire, then guard towers armed with gatling guns, behind which are patrols with IFV's.

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## koolio

R.I.P to the shaheed, these TTP dogs need to be hunted down even if they are in Afghanistan.


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## Star Wars

waz said:


> Allah bless the shaheed.
> I'm sorry but base security needs a massive overhaul, as attackers shouldn't be able to get past the first line of defence. Small radar systems to detect incoming threats, then Steel walls, after-which there is razor wire, then guard towers armed with gatling guns, behind which are patrols with IFV's.



What kind of Radar towers will filter terrorists from civies ?


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## HRK

Sino Dragon said:


> We Chinese are standing alongside our Pakistan brothers in this time of grief. *May the deceased RIH*.



plz check IP .... mod team

@Horus ....


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## Reverse Thinker

i think pakistan should launch ajit doual like person for indians with same punch of strategy as raw playing with pakistan miss using afghan soil and uzbik & tajik people because india understand this type of language


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## VelocuR

Pakistan has few options:

1) Build massive Fences/Walls and Borrow money from China to reduce attacks
2) Vacate Airbases/camps to other provinces safety away from attacks
3) Air bombings and Hot pursuits in Afghanistan's safe haven terrorisms
4) Increase security, upgrading, and recruits more heavy equipment police
5) Joint Cooperation between Afghanistan/Pakistan (maybe not)
6) Eliminate Toyota trucks for MRAPS or heavy vehicles
7) Forget it, play cricket and drink chai

Which one you vote?

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## Reverse Thinker

why so many indians on this website what interests they have? ban all indians why are on this website because they are miss using our disscussions they are making counter strategies of our discussions, our media, and applying those weaknessess disscussed here to counter us and our armed forces. so please don't discuss any hidden project, national interests, strategies used in Army ops against tali dogs, info maps, or anything else.

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## Devil Soul

HRK said:


> plz check IP .... mod team


He might b preferring to the 13 Rats which where killed today by our brave soldiers


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## HRK

Devil Soul said:


> He might b preferring to the 13 Rats which where killed today by our brave soldiers



even then I would suggest IP check ... troll are coming with different IDs & with different flag

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## Raja.Pakistani

HRK said:


> plz check IP .... mod team


I think he is saying RIH to dead bodies of terrorists


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## Reverse Thinker

VelocuR said:


> Pakistan has few options:
> 
> 1) Build massive Fences/Walls and Borrow money from China to reduce attacks
> 2) Vacate Airbases/camps to other provinces safety away from attacks
> 3) Air bombings and Hot pursuits in Afghanistan's safe haven terrorisms
> 4) Increase security, upgrading, and recruits more heavy equipment police
> 5) Joint Cooperation between Afghanistan/Pakistan (maybe not)
> 6) Eliminate Toyota trucks for MRAPS or heavy vehicles
> 7) Forget it, play cricket and drink chai
> 
> Which one you vote?


 secure pak afghan border put drones squads on each 100 to 200 km with heavy deployment of army personal on each checkpost put small radars covering 100 to 200km range and these should be interlinked with drones squad fully operational and prepared with quick action for upcoming threat to pakistan and drones should keep eyes while flying near border areas same like american they are watching pakistan side using drones.


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## A.M.

RIP to the fallen. Captain Asfandyar was one of our brightest soldiers.

Interesting choice of target, either the TTP no longer has the ability to hit hard targets or the PAF is hiding something from us in terms of the operational capacity of the camp.

Eitherway, we know where the attack came from and we know who organized it. The question is what will we do about it?


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## Shamain

HRK said:


> even then I would suggest IP check ... troll are coming with different IDs & with different flag


The moment he made his 1st post i suspected him to be a indian troll. But istayed quiet due to the nature of thread.

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## HRK

Raja.Pakistani said:


> I think he is saying RIH to dead bodies of terrorists



read some ....



Sino Dragon said:


> I also feel the same. *Do you have any evidence to back up your claim ?*





Sino Dragon said:


> Shame on some of the Indians and Pakistanis to glorify this act. *I can understand Indians but Pakistanis. They are the one supporting them. *We feel so disheartened listening about all this and will support Pakistan in need of hour but here the way some people are acting is completely ridiculous. There is a problem and Pakistan should find out a way to deal with it. We will completely support you in whatever way we can.





Sino Dragon said:


> To forget it or to avenge it ?



this guy simply not what he appears ....


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## saadee

Salute to the Capt Asfandyar and three Paf's servicemen. They were not suppose to take part in the action but they they chose to defend the base.

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## Humble Analyst

ito said:


> Taliban is a Islamic group and India is a Hindu majority country. Until now, you could not establish any links between Taliban and India. Your policy of using non state actors to create instability around your neighborhood has failed. That is the reason why all your neighbors: Afghanistan, Iran and India have not so good relations with you.


India always had relation ship with Northern Alliance TTP is nothing like Taliban, it is a different sect.



my2cents said:


> Do you have the link for those 15 consulates?? Otherwise, f#ck off.


1 Embassy 4 consulates and do you really want me to post Indian missions/offices? Now it hurts, it is easy to blame Pakistan but how does it feel o be blamed without proof?


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## Shamain

HRK said:


> read some ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this guy simply not what he appears ....


One more, jaibi was saying iwill share the write up regarding so and so thing and here this guy is intentionally writing this silly post. He was thruout trolling and no one wasnoticing it. 


Sino Dragon said:


> Will you share it in few minutes mate ? It is too late at my place.

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## Inception-06

senses said:


> That was some heavy firefight, see the vehicles in back ground, all torched up.




notice the post/bunker on the top, the Pakistani team must have given hard fighting to TTP from this position !


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## Asli Lahori1

Reverse Thinker said:


> why so many Indians on this website what interests they have? ban all Indians why are on this website because they are miss using our discussions they are making counter strategies of our discussions, our media, and applying those weaknesses discussed here to counter us and our armed forces. so please don't discuss any hidden project, national interests, strategies used in Army ops against tali dogs, info maps, or anything else.



Yep ban the F#king Indians.

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## Indika

waz said:


> Allah bless the shaheed.
> I'm sorry but base security needs a massive overhaul, as attackers shouldn't be able to get past the first line of defence. Small radar systems to detect incoming threats, then Steel walls, after-which there is razor wire, then guard towers armed with gatling guns, behind which are patrols with IFV's.


And then what ?
Attackers will choose the easier and soft targets like civilians. 
What about the cost of fortifications ? they dont come cheap either. And what if they manage to get inside? then these very fortifications will help them.


Consider this.
1965: attack india and expect india not to respond.
1999: Kargil ,ditto
Now: Strategic depth? Nurture proxy- haqqani but dont expect other side afghans to return the favour ?

Thinking in pakistan should change from being military oriented to civilian. Well being of civilians should come first and not military aims.

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## waz

Star Wars said:


> What kind of Radar towers will filter terrorists from civies ?



How many civilians would you expect approaching a military establishment in the early hours?



eyeswideshut said:


> And then what ?
> Attackers will choose the easier and soft targets like civilians.
> What about the cost of fortifications ? they dont come cheap either. And what if they manage to get inside? then these very fortifications will help them.



They attack soft targets anyway so that point is mute. You also need the military in place to deal with them, if they attack both then you might as well give up hope.
The costs of such fortifications are not that extensive either. 
As for getting inside, few have with such defences. Also such fortifications won't help as you need the manpower to man them, which they don't have.


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## Humble Analyst

my2cents said:


> Stop being dumb and dumber.


Stop being personal, stop trying to bully, this not you because you do not know how to bully stick to the topic,



Color_Less_Sky said:


> Without any proofs? There should have been one captured alive, tied in ropes and paraded down the streets with all the media flashing and then declaring that he does not have his nunni cut, and then maybe we can satisfy our neighbors. But now we can just play blame games.


If found Amla Candy and India Kings cigarettes on them then case will be proved that they had Indian links.


----------



## iPhone

Spectre said:


> No offense man, I have always regarded your posts with respect even if I vehemently disagree with them.
> 
> Hoping I am not going off -topic I would like to offer a rebuttal.
> 
> You are right when you say India has the motive and means to sponsor TTP inside Pakistan. I would be lying if I refuted this.
> 
> Now motive and means are not sufficient to indict someone specially a country. We require hard evidence too and so far we have seen little to none verified evidences of our support to TTP.
> 
> What you would like from us is the proof of our non involvement - unfortunately as of yet there is no way to proove a negative.
> 
> On the other hand it is quite possible we were involved with BLA which was in response to Kashmir and Punjab but I hope you would take my word on it that any such support has been put on hold after the last tragedy. With Involvement of China and Russia we even decided to co-operate in issues regarding terrorism which included terrorism in Pakistan too. Would have been a great opportunity for our agencies to exchange information on TTP and their supply lines in Afganishtan. Both India and Pakistan would have prevailed on Afganishtan to attack these terrorist sanctuaries but that chance was lost. TTP is no friend on India and with it's linkages with ISIS our agencies would not touch them with a 100 ft pole. We have a common interest in eradicating TTP and other groups in Afganishtan so that S. Asia can get peace back.
> 
> Thus you see mate - our interests are converging and behind the seen via US there is lot of intelligence being passed on about TTP and ISIS from Indian sources in Afganishtan.


Ok, so now you guys started playing good cop bad cop, here too. Your countrymen come into these threads, taunts us, use sarcastic and insensitive remarks during such tragedies and then a few like you come in, posing as reasonable. But both saying and advocating the same thing.

You're saying india has halted their support for ttp after the APS tragedy. First of all, at least you indirectly admit there was support given to ttp. Second, what does india care about the APS children? You guys just murdered 5 civilians on the sialkot working boundary two days ago with your heavy firing. And you want us to believe that India was so shook up by the Peshawar tragedy that it tried to help Pakistan through NSA. 

If you really meant well we would see an immediate de escalation on the working boundry. We wouldn't see open threats issued against CPEC.

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## Bratva

hassan1 said:


> View attachment 258188
> View attachment 258189
> View attachment 258190
> View attachment 258191
> View attachment 258192




PA Heli destroyed during the Ops.


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## Thorough Pro

@ mods @ Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Manticore Can you permanently ban the trolls on Pak tragedy threads to set an example?



HariPrasad said:


> OK.



comfort and more importantly to keep it quite when moving or running to not give out their position. Guards and security staff manning the CCTV cameras should be alerted when seeing a group approaching roaming the area with such footwear. 



balixd said:


> yes, I noticed the same, in almost all previous PAF or AirPort attacks, they had similar footwear - Service Cheetah or that Black boots ----do they have some kind of fetish with this footwear? why the heck not buy cheaper chinese knock offs? and why obsession with this particular brand



@ mods @ Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Manticore please take care of this troll



gau8av said:


> then what's the solution ?


----------



## Gandhi follower

RIP to the deceased.

Pakistan needs to overhaul her strategy towards terrorism.


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## shaheenmissile

I see two types of people celebrating today's terrorist attacks. TTP supporters and MQM supporters.
Both have a beef with the army for dispatching their terrorists. Thing is why the rest of us,the non mohajirs/ Non MQM supporters should differentiate between MQM and TTP when mentality,motives and mode of operation are similar/same?

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## Thorough Pro

*STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS*





Zarvan said:


> Are you drunk ? As for Pashtunistan forget about that and as for 13 idiots they are in Hell getting special treatment alongside Abu Juhal and others


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## Humble Analyst

Bratva said:


> PA Heli destroyed during the Ops.


in todays ops Sir I believe?


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## shaheenmissile

Humble Analyst said:


> in todays ops Sir I believe?


Yes was a crash landing.

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## Humble Analyst

shaheenmissile said:


> Yes was a crash landing.


Hopefully pilots survived, also tells us our choppers are heavily in use

Well a great effort and sacrifice restricted the attackers however they caused serious loss of valuable life. They had either good info or a good recce of the area with vulnerabilities known. We should have teams constantly reassessing vulnerabilities of bases etc., from all angles outside in and vice versa.


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## shaheenmissile

Humble Analyst said:


> Hopefully pilots survived, also tells us our choppers are heavily in use
> 
> Well a great effort and sacrifice restricted the attackers however they caused serious loss of valuable life. They had either good info or a good recce of the area with vulnerabilities known. We should have teams constantly reassessing vulnerabilities of bases etc., from all angles outside in and vice versa.


Yes we can all thank the NGOs and some political parties who side with terrorists providing info and funding to malign Pakistan Army's name.

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## Thorough Pro

It's not criticism, it's deep seated hatred, I think he is one of those "Target Killers" being booted in Karachi these days



Mrc said:


> @Areesh cool it bro...
> Criticism needs to be positive...
> Negative one becomes propoganda ...and people think u are stupid


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## Musafir117

InnaLillahe Wa InnaElehi Rajeun. This type of attack can't be possible without local rats sympathizers supporters, we need to have a strict policing and more plain cloths spies to watch around cities and towns. May Allah gives quick recover to injured ones. Ameen

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## Thorough Pro

That's piss poor animation with no virtual tour



Windjammer said:


> Take A Virtual Tour Through Deadly PAF Base Attack | SAMAA TV


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## Adecypher

Please watch this program and listen to the views of Brig (R).Javed Hussain...

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## I.R.A

Can we do this with TTP or this is also not feasible?

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## shaheenmissile

Thorough Pro said:


> YOU ARE ONE FUCKING SON OF A BITH YOU MOTHER FUCKER.


MQM goons are having their periods these days so dont mess with them.


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## shaheenmissile

Thorough Pro said:


> Pls delete this post


no i wont. it was an intentional insult.


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## GreenApple

This attack seems to have blessings and help from inside...
..PAF must scrutnize it self..

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## 544_delta

no matter what people say, our forces did a better job than before...please keep in mind that wars take their toll that is no reason lose our resolve.RIP brave soldiers and innocent civilians
Death to takfiri, khuwarij terrorist mofos


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## fatman17

the camp is not a operational base as such. it is now a residential and training camp. the militants wanted to reach the residential area to kill as many people as they could but they never made it as they came under heavy fire from the second line defense. 5 militants were killed. however they managed to enter the camp mosque and kill 16 air force personnel who were getting ready to perform their morning prayers. the remaining 8 militants were killed here. the TTP is showing its desperation as it loses space to operate in the FATA. such desperate attacks will continue unfortunately for some time as any amount of field intelligence cannot predict where and when these scums will hit. the security needs to be more alert at all major and minor military installations.

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## MastanKhan

Hi,

PDF members in particular and Pakistani in general---are you now ready to look at the screw ups and lapses in the security of the base---.

I mean to say----you can raise all kinds of slogans---and do all kinds of Ra Ra Ra----and talk about the bravado of the military men and that is fine----but do you have the courage to point the finger at yourself---and your security apparatus and how it failed?

It is over due now---.

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## 544_delta

no matter what people say, our forces did a better job than before...please keep in mind that wars take their toll that is no reason to lose our resolve.RIP brave soldiers and innocent civilians
Death to takfiri, khuwarij terrorist mofos


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## Roybot

fatman17 said:


> the camp is not a operational base as such. it is now a residential and training camp. the militants wanted to reach the residential area to kill as many people as they could but they never made it as they came under heavy fire from the second line defense. 5 militants were killed. however they managed to enter the camp mosque and kill 16 air force personnel who were getting ready to perform their morning prayers. the remaining 8 militants were killed here. the TTP is showing its desperation as it loses space to operate in the FATA. such desperate attacks will continue unfortunately for some time as any amount of field intelligence cannot predict where and when these scums will hit. the security needs to be more alert at all major and minor military installations.



I know am gonna be jumped for asking this, but why is there no word on the PAF personnel who died in the Mosque? I mean except for the number of people who died, there is no other information, names, ranks, if PAF personnel or civilians or family members, nothing? Something seems amiss.


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## fatman17

Roybot said:


> I know am gonna be jumped for asking this, but why is there no word on the PAF personnel who died in the Mosque? I mean except for the number of people who died, there is no other information, names, ranks, if PAF personnel or civilians or family members, nothing? Something seems amiss.



in due course. nothing is amiss.

Monday morning quarter-backing is very easy to do..........

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## MastanKhan

Adecypher said:


> Please watch this program and listen to the views of Brig (R).Javed Hussain...



Hi,

Thank you for the video----. It is a shame that hardly any Pakistani on this board would have the courage to admit that paf screwed up one more time for its security.

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## singh sahab

waz said:


> Allah bless the shaheed.
> I'm sorry but base security needs a massive overhaul, as attackers shouldn't be able to get past the first line of defence. Small radar systems to detect incoming threats, then Steel walls, after-which there is razor wire, then guard towers armed with gatling guns, behind which are patrols with IFV's.


With all due respect 

1) Pakistan economy is not in such a good shape to provide state of the art fencing on Afghanistan border. And that would not be feasible as well. Look at loc, it's roughly 700 km and takes a heavy toll on indo-Pak economies and here we are talking about more than 2000 km of rough terrain. 

2) completely closing the border is not an option as well neither it's possible. Section of communities won't allow that in Pakistan. Even if it does get done, what stops a terrorist with about 5 kg of rdx to blow a hole in that fence. No country can monitor that big a fence in real time.

3) another point raised in this thread by others and here by you is to provide adequate security measures to establishment like bases and etc. I don't think that's feasible as well. There are N number of possible targets for terrorists. How many cab you provide 3-4 layer security with. Even if you provide all the establishment with high level security, that doesn't solve the problem 
Does it?

Terrorists can always go for softer targets like markets and mosques and for example schools. You can not provide security to every living soul in Pakistan. How many APS can you give 3 layer security? How many mosques cab you guard with a number of soldiers? How many markets can you patrole with fully equipped battle ready soldiers? 

There will always be a possible target available for terrorists. 

4) In my opinion, the best way to stop these terror attacks is counter intelligence. It's cheaper than putting fences and patrolling mosques and markets. And it gets the job done with minimum collateral. 

For example, look how indian army curbed terrorists in kashmir. They infiltrated terrorists organisation and made deep assets in them. They started getting useful information on terror hideouts, sleeper cells, possible attacks etc. Some assets even got used in tearing terror organisations in numbers. 

A solution is always there in history. If you read similar problems from around the world, and successful solutions then you will definitely get an idea as to how to tackle this problem. 

For example 
Israel with Hamas. 
CIA with Mexican drug Lords. 
Chinese with Tibetan. 

However my analogies may not be exact, but carefully studying these will definitely give you some idea.

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## Musafir117

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> PDF members in particular and Pakistani in general---are you now ready to look at the screw ups and apses in the security of the base---.
> 
> I mean to say----you can raise all kinds of slogans---and do all kinds of Ra Ra Ra----and talk about the bravado of the military men and that is fine----but do you have the courage to point the finger at yourself---and your security apparatus and how it failed?
> 
> It is over due now---.


Mastan Bhai these rats look and search the points where they found weakness in security, main problem is their hide out and sleeping cell where they stay and plan for the target and unfortunately they living among us, we need more public awareness volunteer civil policing check our neighbors galli mohallaha etc. 
May Allah save us from these jahanmi creatures. Ameen

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## DV RULES

SecularNationalist said:


> PAF camp badaber is very important for me as i spent my infant years(1990-1992) over there.But according to my parents those were peaceful times.
> *Now it,s time to invade Afghanistan and kick all remaining afghans from pakistan.Afghanistan should be part of operation zarb e azb* to eliminate all afghan terrorist scum.



immature thinking, We shouldn't invade Afghanistan and it is itself stupid idea because cost of jingoism will blast over ordinary citizens of Pakistan. Pakistan can only launch surgical strikes in Afghanistan for targeted operation. 

Would you mind to elaborate how Afghanistan could be part of Zarb-e-Azb? On which logical grounds?


----------



## MastanKhan

KURUMAYA said:


> Mastan Bhai these rats look and search the points where they found weakness in security, main problem is their hide out and sleeping cell where they stay and plan for the target and unfortunately they living among us, we need more public awareness volunteer civil policing check our neighbors galli mohallaha etc.
> May Allah save us from these jahanmi creatures. Ameen



Hi,

Little brother---please don't try to teach me about security-----. Every time it is the same operating procedure. You kids need to understand----the paf management is screwed up---the got serious issues in base security. You cannot keep protecting them---all you kids are doing is lying n their behalf.

You need men who are mentally prepared to do security and nothing else---people who are dedicated for this job----.

People praying in the mosque---no security----no one n the mosque fought back with any weapons----

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## DV RULES

VelocuR said:


> Pakistan has few options:
> 
> 1) Build massive Fences/Walls and Borrow money from China to reduce attacks
> 2) Vacate Airbases/camps to other provinces safety away from attacks
> 3) Air bombings and Hot pursuits in Afghanistan's safe haven terrorisms
> 4) Increase security, upgrading, and recruits more heavy equipment police
> 5) Joint Cooperation between Afghanistan/Pakistan (maybe not)
> 6) Eliminate Toyota trucks for MRAPS or heavy vehicles
> 7) Forget it, play cricket and drink chai
> 
> Which one you vote?



First 2 points are abnormal points, 7th out of context & rest of points have some future to discuss.

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## Donatello

These scums could've targeted any mosque in the the country....so many places of worship out in the open....but they specifically targeted the air force community. One thing for sure we know now, is that they have definitely taken a beaten by PAF air strikes....and are just desperate to do a hit and die. What fcuking cowards.

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## fatman17

singh sahab said:


> With all due respect
> 
> 1) Pakistan economy is not in such a good shape to provide state of the art fencing on Afghanistan border. And that would not be feasible as well. Look at loc, it's roughly 700 km and takes a heavy toll on indo-Pak economies and here we are talking about more than 2000 km of rough terrain.
> 
> 2) completely closing the border is not an option as well neither it's possible. Section of communities won't allow that in Pakistan. Even if it does get done, what stops a terrorist with about 5 kg of rdx to blow a hole in that fence. No country can monitor that big a fence in real time.
> 
> 3) another point raised in this thread by others and here by you is to provide adequate security measures to establishment like bases and etc. I don't think that's feasible as well. There are N number of possible targets for terrorists. How many cab you provide 3-4 layer security with. Even if you provide all the establishment with high level security, that doesn't solve the problem
> Does it?
> 
> Terrorists can always go for softer targets like markets and mosques and for example schools. You can not provide security to every living soul in Pakistan. How many APS can you give 3 layer security? How many mosques cab you guard with a number of soldiers? How many markets can you patrole with fully equipped battle ready soldiers?
> 
> There will always be a possible target available for terrorists.
> 
> 4) In my opinion, the best way to stop these terror attacks is counter intelligence. It's cheaper than putting fences and patrolling mosques and markets. And it gets the job done with minimum collateral.
> 
> For example, look how indian army curbed terrorists in kashmir. They infiltrated terrorists organisation and made deep assets in them. They started getting useful information on terror hideouts, sleeper cells, possible attacks etc. Some assets even got used in tearing terror organisations in numbers.
> 
> A solution is always there in history. If you read similar problems from around the world, and successful solutions then you will definitely get an idea as to how to tackle this problem.
> 
> For example
> Israel with Hamas.
> CIA with Mexican drug Lords.
> Chinese with Tibetan.
> 
> However my analogies may not be exact, but carefully studying these will definitely give you some idea.



yes we have seen your success rates in Kashmir - indeed.

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## DV RULES

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you for the video----. It is a shame that hardly any Pakistani on this board would have the courage to admit that paf screwed up one more time for its security.



Why they should make showcase admittance when that is already has learnt the loop holes? better to learn from experience or they will get another hit. There is no excuse i think.


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## shaheenmissile

Owners of van, used in attack at PAF Budber base, Asif & Akmal detained from Sadiqabad .

Meanwhile PAF Air raids intensify . 15 terrorists killed in Tirah valley today.

School & colleges around PAF Budber base closed for 10 days, will now reopen after Eidul Azha

Several suspects including Afghan nationals rounded up during search operation in Badber, Matni and surrounding areas of ‪#‎Peshawar‬

‪#‎PAF‬


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## fatman17

DV RULES said:


> Why they should make showcase admittance when that is already has learnt the loop holes? better to learn from experience or they will get another hit. There is no excuse i think.



it would be interesting to research the background of Brig(R) Javed Hussain.

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## Rashid Mahmood

COAS and CAS during their visit to Badha Bair Camp, meeting troops who participated in operation and killed all terrorists who attacked camp on Friday morning.

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## cmpk1

1) PAF didn't fail, it is not their job to be on the roads, you can't ask army to do the job of police. 

2) Civil administration has to step up, can't spend Rs100 Billion for just 2 metros while we forget about development in FATA! Development in these areas will do 90% of our job, but politicians have always let us down.

3) No need to secure the whole Durrand line! Most of these TTP scums are in Nuristan, Kunar, Nangarhar, secure these border areas as first priority, rest we can deal with.

4) Govt needs to step up its diplomacy as well, need to hand over/share all the dossier's, on Indian RAW's involvement in Afghanistan, with every friendly/ally & non-ally nations. 

5) Give better equipment & training to FC & police.

6) Need to go all out now, with full might.

btw this base has always been a residential area. officers live here, most probably planned to kill them & their families. 

still a failure since our men died. We cannot win this war without sincere efforts by the civil leadership, & can we just put all these mullah's behind bars or kill them? they're the most hypocrite of all!

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## DV RULES

fatman17 said:


> it would be interesting to research the background of Brig(R) Javed Hussain.



Please enlighten us from your point of view!

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## TaimiKhan

vsdoc said:


> I have yet to see any credible proof of Indian hand in terror in Pakistan.
> 
> This is not about principles. This is about national interests.
> 
> If you hit us here, we will hit you somewhere else. Harder. Disproportionately.
> 
> The days of knights in shining armor, carved lances, and white stallions are good for the story books.
> 
> Let me put forward a hypothetical scenario.
> 
> India killed the Kashmir insurgency by locking Pakistan up on its western borders.
> 
> India needed to extract its due pound of flesh for 26/11. It did.
> 
> Now India felt it was enough. The red mist had gone. Blood for blood had been extracted. Kashmir was dead.
> 
> So India picked its foot off the pedal.
> 
> And what does India (and its new hardline leadership) find?
> 
> Pakistan basking in their "success" against their internal insurgencies. The sabres are unsheathed. Amrika is going. Now see how we will handle you. Afghanistan is lost. etc etc etc
> 
> Kashmir finds life again.
> 
> What does India do? Does it allow things to slip back to the 80s and 90s?



The war will continue. There is no stopping. You took revenge, we will take revenge, you will again take revenge and we will again take revenge. The circle will never stop till don't know what happens. 

Simple as that.

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## DV RULES

TaimiKhan said:


> The war will continue. There is no stopping. You took revenge, we will take revenge, you will again take revenge and we will again take revenge. The circle will never stop till *don't know what happens. *
> 
> Simple as that.



 We are not living in neolithic time!


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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> If you are a expert than God help us.



Lets all hope he does....I have been in law enforcement for over a decade and God hardly does anything in a crisis situation.


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## fatman17

singh sahab said:


> My post was meant for a reasonable, rational and logical Pakistani. You are neither, so don't jump the gun.
> 
> Sirf TTA ka tamga milne se akal nahi aa jati.
> 
> Do not quote me if you can't reason.



How gosh my dear


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## MastanKhan

singh sahab said:


> With all due respect
> 
> 
> For example, look how indian army curbed terrorists in kashmir. They infiltrated terrorists organisation and made deep assets in them. They started getting useful information on terror hideouts, sleeper cells, possible attacks etc. Some assets even got used in tearing terror organisations in numbers.
> 
> A solution is always there in history. If you read similar problems from around the world, and successful solutions then you will definitely get an idea as to how to tackle this problem.
> 
> .



Hi,

Thank you---you raised some good points----.

Regarding how indian army curbed issues in Kashmir----is not your success---it is because ISI stopped managing incursion in that region---.

Now if you like to see it---just let us re-ignite the fuse and then see what happens----. And I know that you would say that if you did---we will teach you a lesson-----.

The point is that it is not your success---we have pulled our hands from that issue a long time ago---.

We will be coming back to it in awhile.

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## nomi007




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## TaimiKhan

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> PDF members in particular and Pakistani in general---are you now ready to look at the screw ups and lapses in the security of the base---.
> 
> I mean to say----you can raise all kinds of slogans---and do all kinds of Ra Ra Ra----and talk about the bravado of the military men and that is fine----but do you have the courage to point the finger at yourself---and your security apparatus and how it failed?
> 
> It is over due now---.



I fully agree with this. there has been many instances where proactive approach with respect to security measures could have reduced the casualties. 

This current attack at Badaber may not be a 100% success, but they did achieved a partial success.

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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> Lets all hope he does....I have been in law enforcement for over a decade and God hardly does anything in a crisis situation.



yep speak for yourself.

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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> yep speak for yourself.



Roger


----------



## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> Roger



by the way the wall makers like me are gathering here 

Afghanistan-Pakistan Border can be sealed?


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## Maravan

Crush them to their core with iron hand or give what they want. Limited military operations will never wipe any terrorist group.

May the innocent souls RIP..


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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> by the way the wall makers like me are gathering here
> 
> Afghanistan-Pakistan Border can be sealed?



I'm not against the wall idea, I know you have US-Mexico and Israel-Palestine as examples but these are not suitable parallels for the border dividing Pakistan and Afghanistan. Physical barriers are meaningless here, it has to be the human element that secures the borders in this region.
Are there leaks none the less? Of course! But then there are leaks through the walls as well, Palestinian attackers have carried out gun and knife attacks despite the wall, Mexican immigrants continue to flow into America.
So you see, I don't agree with the "Wall the border, depose the government and bomb the land" argument because we are way past the first and the other two arguments just cannot be substantiated in the global system.
Strengthening domestic security protocols is what ensures success and IT HAS. If you compare the ratio of large scale terrorist attacks in period 2007-11 to today, you will see that from one attack with 20+ casualties every 3 days, we are down to one attack every three months!
In the meantime, the enemy is here to fight to and from time to time, they will also manage to land a blow, if they didn't, there wouldn't be a conflict, would there? Policy is not made in response to knee jerk reactions, one has to insulate themselves from their own bias and myopia to work out a policy that will bear dividends rather than just address a symptom of the problem for the next few months at best. In that way, we can only defer our misfortunes but we cannot overcome them.

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## singh sahab

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you---you raised some good points----.
> 
> Regarding how indian army curbed issuBarabaric cult follower is what that guy'sthinking is.es in Kashmir----is not your success---it is because ISI stopped managing incursion in that region---.
> 
> Now if you like to see it---just let us re-ignite the fuse and then see what happens----. And I know that you would say that if you did---we will teach you a lesson-----.
> 
> The point is that it is not your success---we have pulled our hands from that issue a long time ago---.
> 
> We will be coming back to it in awhile.


And I thought you were one of the rare one's here with brains. 

However you choose to ignore everything else related to thread wich i mentioned and discuss an example which I mentioned. 

As stupid as your reply was regarding to kashmir example, I'd rather not reply that here on this thread.

Tag me in any relevant thread and I will tell you a thing or two about your so called withdrawal.


----------



## MastanKhan

singh sahab said:


> And I thought you were one of the rare one's here with brains.
> 
> However you choose to ignore everything else related to thread wich i mentioned and discuss an example which I mentioned.
> 
> As stupid as your reply was regarding to kashmir example, I'd rather not reply that here on this thread.
> 
> Tag me in any relevant thread and I will tell you a thing or two about your so called withdrawal.



Hi,

Indeed---that was the expected answer from an indian----. The other mentions did not have any substance---and as a new member---I did not want to be disrespectful to that in my comments---.

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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> I'm not against the wall idea, I know you have US-Mexico and Israel-Palestine as examples but these are not suitable parallels for the border dividing Pakistan and Afghanistan. Physical barriers are meaningless here, it has to be the human element that secures the borders in this region.
> Are there leaks none the less? Of course! But then there are leaks through the walls as well, Palestinian attackers have carried out gun and knife attacks despite the wall, Mexican immigrants continue to flow into America.
> So you see, I don't agree with the "Wall the border, depose the government and bomb the land" argument because we are way past the first and the other two arguments just cannot be substantiated in the global system.
> Strengthening domestic security protocols is what ensures success and IT HAS. If you compare the ratio of large scale terrorist attacks in period 2007-11 to today, you will see that from one attack with 20+ casualties every 3 days, we are down to one attack every three months!
> In the meantime, the enemy is here to fight to and from time to time, they will also manage to land a blow, if they didn't, there wouldn't be a conflict, would there? Policy is not made in response to knee jerk reactions, one has to insulate themselves from their own bias and myopia to work out a policy that will bear dividends rather than just address a symptom of the problem for the next few months at best. In that way, we can only defer our misfortunes but we cannot overcome them.



I have said it in earlier post it is not a 100% way of reducing movement but it will play a vital part. the places you mentioned have a wall and it not the complete solution but it is still effective than having *nothing*. Wall is the main barrier with man power complementing both. 

It is no knee jerk reaction when it becomes a wide topic of discussion with more than person!

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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> I have said it in earlier post it is not a 100% way of reducing movement but it will play a vital part. the places you mentioned have a wall and it not the complete solution but it is still effective than having *nothing*. Wall is the main barrier with man power complementing both.
> 
> It is no knee jerk reaction when it becomes a wide topic of discussion with more than person!




To which I have already replied that limiting access is the way to go and we can do that by creating an official crossing point at each Agency and then using biometric data collection to monitor all those who are crossing the border. That is a much more suitable method of:

1. Limiting traffic off mountainous routes. 
2. Separate white from black or grey traffic
3. Collect data about individuals who cross the border regularly 

Therefore achieving much more than what a wall alone would be able to do.

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## Slav Defence

Keeping everything aside,I would like to express my condolences first of all.
I am really desperate and in fact frustrated to see army's best jawans,sacrificing their lives b/c of such cheap parasites.This warfare is long and process of elimination is attempted to be made as effective as it could be.However,we need to continuously upgrade our strategies as well with respect to situation._This includes not only our on ground tactics,but our social,political and foreign policies as well to confuse our enemy._

regards

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## vsdoc

TaimiKhan said:


> The war will continue. There is no stopping. You took revenge, we will take revenge, you will again take revenge and we will again take revenge. The circle will never stop till don't know what happens.
> 
> Simple as that.



I fully agree Taimi.

For Pakistan and India, peace is the absence of all out war. 

This not a fight between nation states. The fight is a lot older.


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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> To which I have already replied that limiting access is the way to go and we can do that by creating an official crossing point at each Agency and then using biometric data collection to monitor all those who are crossing the border. That is a much more suitable method of:
> 
> 1. Limiting traffic off mountainous routes.
> 2. Separate white from black or grey traffic
> 3. Collect data about individuals who cross the border regularly
> 
> Therefore achieving much more than what a wall alone would be able to do.



These suitable methods:

1. Limiting traffic off mountainous routes. does that exist both or will it work both ways, will ANA or aghan gov do the same on their side?
2. Separate white from black or grey traffic. Since the british no one has separated grey from white traffic you must have a separation technique?
3. Collect data about individuals who cross the border regularly. many have gone to afghan side and stayed their take the ttp head swines. many have come here and not gone back like terrorists! But people who cross borders regularly have a good reason to cross them jobs, family, etc!

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## Slav Defence

TaimiKhan said:


> The war will continue. There is no stopping. You took revenge, we will take revenge, you will again take revenge and we will again take revenge. The circle will never stop till don't know what happens.
> 
> Simple as that.


No way sir,this labyrinth could be broken,if we cut off the supply lines,that is why I say that something could be done to confuse them,either by fueling their own enemies or by building up same groups who look just like them and kill them in the name of their faith!

regards

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## Shot-Caller

Has there been a reaction yet? I heard 16 militants have been killed in shawal.


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## Devil Soul

GreenApple said:


> This attack seems to have blessings and help from inside...
> ..PAF must scrutnize it self..


Aah here comes the expert, if these scums had any help from inside the attack could have lasted for hours, but it was quickly tackled by forces & it was all over in no time with all the Rats dead lying here & there. I do believe that PAF needs to work more on securing there bases operational or nonoperational..


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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> 1. Limiting traffic off mountainous routes. does that exist both or will it work both ways, will ANA or aghan gov do the same on their side?



The Afghan Government has next to no control over the larger part of the border regions and it will be up to us to ensure this. A number of new pickets have already been established overseeing mountain passes and as I mentioned, the PA has also taken control over various posts that were vacated by the ANA, giving us a birds eye view into the Afghan side as well. That allows us to identify large groups in advance and engage them at a distance and on Afghan soil. 



Path-Finder said:


> 2. Separate white from black or grey traffic. Since the british no one has separated grey from white traffic you must have a separation technique?



Yes. A technique was implemented at Torkham and was successful until the biometric unit was destroyed during a firefight between the ANA and the FC. Afghans were only allowed to cross over after they had presented their computerized NADRA Afghan Cards and had passed biometric checks. They were supposed to indicate their expected date of departure as well as their intended destination, purpose of visit etc then they had to report to the area police station for their destination. That way, regular white traffic could be identified, people who cross over regularly for work/family could be recognized which allowed a fishy character to be easily spotted. 



Path-Finder said:


> 3. Collect data about individuals who cross the border regularly. many have gone to afghan side and stayed their take the ttp head swines. many have come here and not gone back like terrorists! But people who cross borders regularly have a good reason to cross them jobs, family, etc!



Exactly why data is necessary, like I stated in point 2. And that is exactly why you can't insulate one side from the other entirely.

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## SecularNationalist

DV RULES said:


> immature thinking, We shouldn't invade Afghanistan and it is itself stupid idea because cost of jingoism will blast over ordinary citizens of Pakistan. Pakistan can only launch surgical strikes in Afghanistan for targeted operation.
> 
> Would you mind to elaborate how Afghanistan could be part of Zarb-e-Azb? On which logical grounds?


There are terrorists in Afghanistan who are posing threat to our national security .And the afghan government is doing nothing about it which makes our action against the Afghanistan justified.Well if boots on ground is not the option the surgical strikes must be done.


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## hell__raider

Were the 23 air force personnel killed pilots or clerks.

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## Bilal Khan 777

Color_Less_Sky said:


> and it had two technicians guarding it? Sorry I don't buy your statement.



The attack was not on the technical area, the attack was on the residential camp opposite to it. After working hours, all guardrooms have minimum front force but there are appropriate resources guarding all units 24/7. There are three technical units at Badaber, and I am unable to name them here. You don't have to buy anything from me. It was a musical Gala night at terrorists wants to kill civilians and officers / men families en masse. From wherever they were controlled, they got the timing difference wrong and the gala wrapped up at 4AM, they attacked the guard room at 5AM outside, where two technicians were on duty, with QRF (Quick Reaction Force) on standby. The guards fought back despite the surprise attack and gave their lives, alerting the QRF. Meanwhile, one group split and went to the Makeshift masjid by the guardroom, and opened fire on the Namazis and people doing Wudu. As the QRF cars arrived, all these people were surrounded and gunned down, however they were trained mercenaries and caused casualties on PK side as well.

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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> The Afghan Government has next to no control over the larger part of the border regions and it will be up to us to ensure this. A number of new pickets have already been established overseeing mountain passes and as I mentioned, the PA has also taken control over various posts that were vacated by the ANA, giving us a birds eye view into the Afghan side as well. That allows us to identify large groups in advance and engage them at a distance and on Afghan soil.



doesn't really give a secure image half the army must stand on open ground with senile ttp could harass from any to multiple directions. unless i am wrong in the past one post gets attacked keeping the post busy making an incision for a group to cross the border. Observation is great for alertness of what is on the horizon but that also translates into a credible defense as well? 



Icarus said:


> Yes. A technique was implemented at Torkham and was successful until the biometric unit was destroyed during a firefight between the ANA and the FC. Afghans were only allowed to cross over after they had presented their computerized NADRA Afghan Cards and had passed biometric checks. They were supposed to indicate their expected date of departure as well as their intended destination, purpose of visit etc then they had to report to the area police station for their destination. That way, regular white traffic could be identified, people who cross over regularly for work/family could be recognized which allowed a fishy character to be easily spotted.



'Destroyed in a firefight', 'Supposed to indicate' what more can be said it really does not install confidence if the biometric data can be easily destroyed like that. I didn't know people who overstayed their welcome always get sent packing either. There is no real white Traffic from afghanistan and that is a fact.



Icarus said:


> Exactly why data is necessary, like I stated in point 2. And that is exactly why you can't insulate one side from the other entirely.



Well there is no insulation on the other side doesn't mean we dont insulate our side.


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## I.R.A

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> The attack was not on the technical area, the attack was on the residential camp opposite to it. After working hours, all guardrooms have minimum front force but there are appropriate resources guarding all units 24/7. There are three technical units at Badaber, and I am unable to name them here. You don't have to buy anything from me. *It was a musical Gala night* at terrorists wants to kill civilians and officers / men families en masse. *From wherever they were controlled, they got the timing difference wrong* *and the gala wrapped up at 4AM,* they attacked the guard room at 5AM outside, where two technicians were on duty, with QRF (Quick Reaction Force) on standby. The guards fought back despite the surprise attack and gave their lives, alerting the QRF. Meanwhile, one group split and went to the Makeshift masjid by the guardroom, and opened fire on the Namazis and people doing Wudu. As the QRF cars arrived, all these people were surrounded and gunned down, however they were trained mercenaries and caused casualties on PK side as well.



This is huge you know, this is not possible without inside help and information. And that too communicated to planners of this attack. It was just an hour delay.

If you are right,

So we were again kept blind as I said it is our chay policy to keep our awam blind all the times, don't let them know the whole story and then whine oh we need public's support to win this war, what else they have hidden from us chay awam?

Edit: And how do you know all this? Your flags suggest that you are not even here in Pakistan?

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## Bilal Khan 777

Color_Less_Sky said:


> This is huge you know, this is not possible without inside help and information. And that too communicated to planners of this attack. It was just an hour delay.
> 
> If you are right,
> 
> So we were again kept blind as I said it is our chay policy to keep our awam blind all the times, don't let them know the whole story and then whine oh we need public's support to win this war, what else they have hidden from us chay awam?
> 
> Edit: And how do you know all this? Your flags suggest that you are not even here in Pakistan?



Public


Color_Less_Sky said:


> This is huge you know, this is not possible without inside help and information. And that too communicated to planners of this attack. It was just an hour delay.
> 
> If you are right,
> 
> So we were again kept blind as I said it is our chay policy to keep our awam blind all the times, don't let them know the whole story and then whine oh we need public's support to win this war, what else they have hidden from us chay awam?
> 
> Edit: And how do you know all this? Your flags suggest that you are not even here in Pakistan?



Don't they say in your country, eat the mangoes and not count the trees? Instead of thanking me for informing you guys the honest truth, i face skepticism and questions on who I am and where I am from. You have the right to believe all your duplicitous and misguiding media and resources. I shall stand behind what I say is closer to the truth than any of you know till now. The timing difference is an easy give away on the command and control of the group. Like every other attack on Pakistani defence establishments, the two C&C elements fled the scene on first sign of resistance.

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## I.R.A

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Public
> 
> 
> Don't they say in your country, eat the mangoes and not count the trees? Instead of thanking me for informing you guys the honest truth, i face skepticism and questions on who I am and where I am from. You have the right to believe all your duplicitous and misguiding media and resources. I shall stand behind what I say is closer to the truth than any of you know till now. The timing difference is an easy give away on the command and control of the group. Like every other attack on Pakistani defence establishments, the two C&C elements fled the scene on first sign of resistance.



No where I live they say verify the source, give it a second thought, research, confirm and then believe. Nobody is doubting your character here, you are the source of some information which nobody has highlighted and hinted before, so don't you think I deserve this much right to satisfy myself before believing it all together as truth?

Anyways thanks for the share.


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## Marshmallow

Icarus said:


> Diplomatic composure is very important. You might have read that we once pursued the policy of opposing PRC's secession to the UNSC permanent seat for China however through diplomatic efforts, we became very close allies at one time. Just because we have had a contentious history with Afghanistan does not mean that we need also have a bleak future as well. Like it or not, we have to keep Afghanistan in our fold or risk having India at both of our borders.



You are analyzing the situation in a different way.What im trying to say is that with no retaliation at all from our side will further make us look like totally submissive and weak to them which will then demoralize our soldiers and civilians as well.(Already Gen Raheel has worked alot to restore the respect and honour of the Arm Forces and Soldiers which was somewhat lost in Gen Kiyani's Tenure(him being a Politicised General) and also during Gen Musharaf's tenure(him being completely Aggressive in his policies which werent fruitful in the long run)

And frankly speaking what have we gained so far by getting ourselves diplomatically engaged with Afghan Gov.? You do know Gen Raheel rushed to Afghanistan after APS Attack to have some talks with them? You do know we had several meetings with some of the Afghan groups just recently in Murree? Then the recent written agreement between our and their Intelligence Agencies? and What was the outcome? They killed our soldiers on our side of the border and what did we do? We just protested! They again after APS attack,allowed their land to be used by the militants to kill and attack our Sensitive areas and Young Soldiers!

And Please dont compare China with Afghanistan! 

China never allowed her Soil/People against us.

China never allowed any third country on her land to be involved in proxy wars against Pakistan.

Chinese dont have religious and ideological similarities like with us like Afghanese still theres an element of mutual respect and trust between us and Chinese.

We dont get to face Chinese hostility on our border with them every other day like we do with Afghanistan.

This Diplomatic Shiplomatic thing wouldnt work in Afghanistan's case because Revenge is their Motto...Bullet is their Childhood Love and Guns are their everyday Romance..They dont understand any other Lang.They live with this ideology and die with it as well!

Sadly it's we who are on the receiving end here!



jaibi said:


> A lot of the Afghani people are settled here in Pakistan. They too do not support the TTP, in fact, very few people support the TTP. Our divisions and politics is what lets them thrive. To work against it, we need to start getting courteous and cordial with each other.


We had treated IDPs and other Loyal Afghans very respectfully in the recent past.You do remember how people on individual and collective level financially,morally and physically supported them when they needed us in that crises.I personally saw people giving away their Salaries,Pocket money and other goods to help our brothers and sisters in pain.I have no problem with Loyal Afghanese living in Pakistan,they are as much Pakistanies as Me,You or Anybudy else.

Its just the disloyal ones that should be kicked out of here and be dealt with force.A Terrorist's Sympathizer,Financier and Helper is a Terrorist himself.As simple as that!

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## Assange

Let those fallen rest in peace.....

I really think Pakistan should think about its policy of using proxy...Because TTP also was a proxy of Pakistan once....now they are sucking its blood....Let Pakistani people tell its army and the people who are devising strategy of using proxy against its enemies...I don't know what makes Pakistan strategist think that today what they are calling as assets (i.e., proxy) won't turn back against them like TTP..... or become an liability to Pakistan and asset to its enemies.....

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## indiatester

Assange said:


> Let those fallen rest in peace.....
> 
> I really think Pakistan should think about its policy of using proxy...Because TTP also was a proxy of Pakistan once....now they are sucking its blood....Let Pakistani people tell its army and the people who are devising strategy of using proxy against its enemies...I don't know what makes Pakistan strategist think that today what they are calling as assets (i.e., proxy) won't turn back against them like TTP..... or become an liability to Pakistan and asset to its enemies.....



You think? The same seniors who curse the terrorists who cause carnage in their land, go around saying RIP when they get roasted in our land
case in point
Hizbul commander's bullet- riddled body recovered in Kashmir

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## Mrc

Indians and even US are also using proxies...

How come ttp is flourishing in afghanistan without US turning a blind eye and indian opening up their coffers for them...


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## Dil Pakistan

*See the news item below. 
Is there a possible link to Lashkar-i-Jhangvi ?*


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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> doesn't really give a secure image half the army must stand on open ground with senile ttp could harass from any to multiple directions. unless i am wrong in the past one post gets attacked keeping the post busy making an incision for a group to cross the border. Observation is great for alertness of what is on the horizon but that also translates into a credible defense as well?



Yes that has been a regular MO of the terrorists to try and engage a post in a firefight and then attempt to use the fog of war as a cover to slip people into the border. However, that tactic was most effective when PA held only fringes of land along the border and some strategic positions whereas the TTP held most of the agencies. Now, the situation is drastically changed, there are more posts overlooking these approaches which makes it difficult to engage them all at the same time plus they have arty and mortar support from their coy, bn or bd HQ, the roads are all held by the LEAs and there are checkpoints all over, local lashkars police the tribal territory along with FC. So over all, it has become more difficult for Ts to just cross over and attack en mass. What is important now, is to eliminate local command structures and sympathizers that do not cross the border but keep rotating militants between areas to keep them from being found out until its time to launch an attack. And these people are not coming from Afghanistan, you might remember after the attack on Shuja Khanzada, conspirators were arrested from a madrassah in Islamabad built less than two kilometers from IIU. So yes, whereas cross border elements are responsible for this carnage, local elements are the ones that are making sure that it is successful and even if we were to seal the border, they would have no problem recruiting from local madrassahs. That is why an inward looking approach is being stressed at the moment and IBOs in urban/semi-urban areas are targeting seemingly well known and respected local figures who secretly maintained ties with outfits like AQ, IS, TTP, LeJ, etc. 



Path-Finder said:


> 'Destroyed in a firefight', 'Supposed to indicate' what more can be said it really does not install confidence if the biometric data can be easily destroyed like that. I didn't know people who overstayed their welcome always get sent packing either. There is no real white Traffic from afghanistan and that is a fact.



The data was not destroyed, that is the beauty of the data. It was only the physical infrastructure that was damaged, which if the will of the civil govt exists, can easily be replaced in a day to resume operations as per routine. I'm no fan of Afghans either, but I have lived in FATA during these Ops and I understand the stakes of the local population in Afghanistan and across. People are married across the Durand Line, have homes on one side and grazing ground on the other, some just come to work in Pakistan as daily wage labourers. So there is some genuine traffic. 



Path-Finder said:


> Well there is no insulation on the other side doesn't mean we dont insulate our side.



We have significantly strengthened our side of the border, I assure you. One of our primary concerns is to make this border safer for Pakistan. Geography has done us no favour as the Durand Line was made on a map with next to no input from the ground, and in many places makes no sense but none the less, we have established posts where there were previously none and constantly work to plug the gaps in the border and channel traffic towards the official crossing points.

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## Death Adder

We have not learnt any lessons from previous attacks. For f*** sake give better weapons, radio coms, and NVG's to security guards.


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## Neutron

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> PDF members in particular and Pakistani in general---are you now ready to look at the screw ups and lapses in the security of the base---.
> 
> I mean to say----you can raise all kinds of slogans---and do all kinds of Ra Ra Ra----and talk about the bravado of the military men and that is fine----but do you have the courage to point the finger at yourself---and your security apparatus and how it failed?
> 
> It is over due now---.




Glass is Half Full
Operation Best of All Possible Solutions as This is Best of All Possible Worlds

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## Bratva

@balixd @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @Horus @Jango @Bilal Khan 777 CTD Peshawar gave very specific alert,location of terrorists and number of terrorists To PAF officials at Budhbeer camp one week before the attack. It is Kamra base attack deja vu all over again. Terror alert given one week before. Still didn;t act upon it


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## Icarus

Bratva said:


> @balixd @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @Horus @Jango @Bilal Khan 777 CTD Peshawar gave very specific alert,location of terrorists and number of terrorists To PAF officials at Budhbeer camp one week before the attack. It is Kamra base attack deja vu all over again. Terror alert given one week before. Still didn;t act upon it



There are dozens of such alerts generated on a daily basis, it is easier to highlight one in hindsight. That is particularly true for badaber, since its an area with significant terrorist activity.


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## Viper0011.

Dil Pakistan said:


> *See the news item below.
> Is there a possible link to Lashkar-i-Jhangvi ?*
> View attachment 258403




In the picture, this security setup is messed up and if this is how they have it across Pakistan, each attack will cause more loss of life. 

Here's what needs to happen, besides the barricades, you need a concrete built first check point, with heavy metal ONE door, a bullet proof window on the side where traffic passes by. The other side needs a couple of smaller bullet proof windows through which the security personnel can fire outside. The concrete structure, very heavy metallic door locked at all times, with the a couple of windows would ensure small weapons, even rockets don't kill everyone in the first go and there will be resistance.Cameras linked to the second check post will ensure every attack is being watched by others in a second tier as it starts, so you don't walk into the fire, you know where these people are and you can take them out specifically.

This first check point, is the entry point and if you start resisting here, the quick response force would be here before the first check post is taken down by the terrorists.

Next, about a few hundred meters away, on the SAME on entry, one exit road, you built a slightly bigger check post with more rooms, a basement with a hidden door through a tunnel that takes the security folks out of the check post and brings them back on to the ground around some hidden trees, or areas, etc. So in case the first check post is over taken and the second check post is also under serious threat, some security personnel can exit through the basement tunnel and can surface up behind the terrorists as they'd be trying to take over the second check post. Or simply, reinforcements can be sent to the first check posts from here, while keeping this second tier locked down to resist in case need be,

Last, bravery is one thing, but the security personnel need to be fully covered in armor. These terrorists are trained and way too many times, they shoot low to target security personnel's legs as they know they would have a bullet proof vest on. 

Remember, these are not the taliban Pakistan and the US dealt with before 2000 or after 2001, these are now highly trained commandos (thanks for Indian SF"s training and support). Since this attack, some of the weapons captured from the Afghanis include night vision devices, 67 types of different weapons and guns from sniper rifles to AK-47 to stationary machine guns. These are highly sophisticated weapons and require training. And the training has been seen in each of these attacks as they are almost conducted in the special force style (again thanks to your neighbor in turning rag tag militia's into a commando force!!!).

Lastly, kick out all AFGHANIS!!!!! That's the single most critical element. You don't have to sacrifice your young officers if these refugees don't respect Pakistan and her laws. Why have a cancer knowing it will keep hurting every month????

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## araz

DV RULES said:


> Wow, You are talking like when everyone supposed to be obliged to agree with you!
> 
> In my point of view, that was Intelligence/counter-Intelligence fault no matter (ABCDEFGHIJK which agencies) and security laps.
> 
> That's debatable the intensity of intelligence required in Afghanistan to thwart any potential mishap and how.


Thats because you are talking to experience. Learn from it. It will help. 
Araz

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## Shot-Caller

Bratva said:


> @balixd @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @Horus @Jango @Bilal Khan 777 CTD Peshawar gave very specific alert,location of terrorists and number of terrorists To PAF officials at Budhbeer camp one week before the attack. It is Kamra base attack deja vu all over again. Terror alert given one week before. Still didn;t act upon it


This is bad. They should have been precautious.


Icarus said:


> There are dozens of such alerts generated on a daily basis, it is easier to highlight one in hindsight. That is particularly true for badaber, since its an area with significant terrorist activity.


Every alert must be taken seriously even if there are hundreds. We're in a complicated phase where development and investment is being blocked by terrorism. We take pride in our forces for a reason. This is becoming more and more disappointing. If you think this won't affect CPEC and our hopes with it, I'd say you're mistaken.

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## Icarus

Shot-Caller said:


> This is bad. They should have been precautious.
> 
> Every alert must be taken seriously even if there are hundreds. We're in a complicated phase where development and investment is being blocked by terrorism. We take pride in our forces for a reason. This is becoming more and more disappointing. If you think this won't affect CPEC and our hopes with it, I'd say you're mistaken.



The LEAs are fully aware of the trust of our people, it is the wind beneath our wings and we won't be able to accomplish anything without it. That being said, I think this incident is being subjected to undue scrutiny. We are at a state of war and regrettable as it is, there will be times when we will also have to take a hit. The attack was inevitable but what is noteworthy here is that the response to the attack was effective, the terrorists were limited in the first 30m and were not allowed to reach their targets, which were the family accommodations. 
The LEAs will constantly work to improve our response capacity and we will win this war, God-willing.

At about 11am Khalid Khurrasani claimed that the attackers had killed over 250 people and were still attacking, that was the intended scale of the attack.

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## Shot-Caller

Icarus said:


> The LEAs are fully aware of the trust of our people, it is the wind beneath our wings and we won't be able to accomplish anything without it. That being said, I think this incident is being subjected to undue scrutiny. We are at a state of war and regrettable as it is, there will be times when we will also have to take a hit. The attack was inevitable but what is noteworthy here is that the response to the attack was effective, the terrorists were limited in the first 30m and were not allowed to reach their targets, which were the family accommodations.
> The LEAs will constantly work to improve our response capacity and we will win this war, God-willing.
> 
> At about 11am Khalid Khurrasani claimed that the attackers had killed over 250 people and were still attacking, that was the intended scale of the attack.


I hope the response is going to be sharp and some decisive steps are taken as far as Afghanistan is concerned.

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## Jango

Bratva said:


> @balixd @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @Horus @Jango @Bilal Khan 777 CTD Peshawar gave very specific alert,location of terrorists and number of terrorists To PAF officials at Budhbeer camp one week before the attack. It is Kamra base attack deja vu all over again. Terror alert given one week before. Still didn;t act upon it



Maybe that is why the response was as efficient as it was.

Let's be clear about one thing, you cannot stop attacks like these from happening once in a while...they WILL happen. But it's the response that needs to be made up to par, and in this attack, I think it was above the satisfactory level, especially considering our past fck ups. 

And as Icarus has already said, alerts like these are generated every other day...some are deemed credible, some not. 

BTW, there was a report of an attack on Kamra as well, which was thwarted.


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## I.R.A

Icarus said:


> The LEAs are fully aware of the trust of our people, it is the wind beneath our wings and we won't be able to accomplish anything without it. That being said, I think this incident is being subjected to undue scrutiny. We are at a state of war and regrettable as it is, there will be times when we will also have to take a hit. The attack was inevitable but what is noteworthy here is that the response to the attack was effective, the terrorists were limited in the first 30m and were not allowed to reach their targets, which were the family accommodations.
> The LEAs will constantly work to improve our response capacity and we will win this war, God-willing.
> 
> At about 11am Khalid Khurrasani claimed that the attackers had killed over 250 people and were still attacking, that was the intended scale of the attack.



That newspaper clipping it has the number of potential attackers, their location and their intention ............... as CTD claims, does getting a sign on alert by an official of the camp relieves CTD of its responsibility? Or is it typical attitude that not my jurisdiction cannot do much. 1500 kartoos, 97 magzines, 7 RPG rifles, 29 IEDS, 29 Grenades, 7 daggers, machine guns and 13-14 people itna kuch to andhay ko bhi nazar a jay sir. And if I suppose what Bilal777 here claimed is right that it was a music gala night at camp that wrapped around 4am. Then It was ALLAH and his men like Asfandyar who saved us from a huge tragedy as compared to loss we suffered, otherwise hum nay to poora moka farham kia hay unhay. Public ko kab andhairy say bahir nikalnay ka irada hy ya khali peeli support he mangni hay bus?

And as far as some of the claims that I heard there were instances when we knew that they are coming, we were that much ready and prepared that the response was truck loads of dead bodies. This claim was made in regards to some attack on PRC in Mardan I don't know if it is correct or not and credible or not?


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## jaibi

Brashness cannot be utilised in our situation. However, we need to be equally hard against all sympathizers. 


Marshmallow said:


> You are analyzing the situation in a different way.What im trying to say is that with no retaliation at all from our side will further make us look like totally submissive and weak to them which will then demoralize our soldiers and civilians as well.(Already Gen Raheel has worked alot to restore the respect and honour of the Arm Forces and Soldiers which was somewhat lost in Gen Kiyani's Tenure(him being a Politicised General) and also during Gen Musharaf's tenure(him being completely Aggressive in his policies which werent fruitful in the long run)
> 
> And frankly speaking what have we gained so far by getting ourselves diplomatically engaged with Afghan Gov.? You do know Gen Raheel rushed to Afghanistan after APS Attack to have some talks with them? You do know we had several meetings with some of the Afghan groups just recently in Murree? Then the recent written agreement between our and their Intelligence Agencies? and What was the outcome? They killed our soldiers on our side of the border and what did we do? We just protested! They again after APS attack,allowed their land to be used by the militants to kill and attack our Sensitive areas and Young Soldiers!
> 
> And Please dont compare China with Afghanistan!
> 
> China never allowed her Soil/People against us.
> 
> China never allowed any third country on her land to be involved in proxy wars against Pakistan.
> 
> Chinese dont have religious and ideological similarities like with us like Afghanese still theres an element of mutual respect and trust between us and Chinese.
> 
> We dont get to face Chinese hostility on our border with them every other day like we do with Afghanistan.
> 
> This Diplomatic Shiplomatic thing wouldnt work in Afghanistan's case because Revenge is their Motto...Bullet is their Childhood Love and Guns are their everyday Romance..They dont understand any other Lang.They live with this ideology and die with it as well!
> 
> Sadly it's we who are on the receiving end here!
> 
> 
> We had treated IDPs and other Loyal Afghans very respectfully in the recent past.You do remember how people on individual and collective level financially,morally and physically supported them when they needed us in that crises.I personally saw people giving away their Salaries,Pocket money and other goods to help our brothers and sisters in pain.I have no problem with Loyal Afghanese living in Pakistan,they are as much Pakistanies as Me,You or Anybudy else.
> 
> Its just the disloyal ones that should be kicked out of here and be dealt with force.A Terrorist's Sympathizer,Financier and Helper is a Terrorist himself.As simple as that!

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## ice_man

Abattoirs,FACILITATORS & FINANCIERS

& TRAITORS 

of this should be caught and punished. 

even people on the street didn't see 16 bloody men walking up to the base carrying weapons?


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## jaibi

Brashness cannot be utilised in our situation. However, we need to be equally hard against all sympathizers.


Marshmallow said:


> You are analyzing the situation in a different way.What im trying to say is that with no retaliation at all from our side will further make us look like totally submissive and weak to them which will then demoralize our soldiers and civilians as well.(Already Gen Raheel has worked alot to restore the respect and honour of the Arm Forces and Soldiers which was somewhat lost in Gen Kiyani's Tenure(him being a Politicised General) and also during Gen Musharaf's tenure(him being completely Aggressive in his policies which werent fruitful in the long run)
> 
> And frankly speaking what have we gained so far by getting ourselves diplomatically engaged with Afghan Gov.? You do know Gen Raheel rushed to Afghanistan after APS Attack to have some talks with them? You do know we had several meetings with some of the Afghan groups just recently in Murree? Then the recent written agreement between our and their Intelligence Agencies? and What was the outcome? They killed our soldiers on our side of the border and what did we do? We just protested! They again after APS attack,allowed their land to be used by the militants to kill and attack our Sensitive areas and Young Soldiers!
> 
> And Please dont compare China with Afghanistan!
> 
> China never allowed her Soil/People against us.
> 
> China never allowed any third country on her land to be involved in proxy wars against Pakistan.
> 
> Chinese dont have religious and ideological similarities like with us like Afghanese still theres an element of mutual respect and trust between us and Chinese.
> 
> We dont get to face Chinese hostility on our border with them every other day like we do with Afghanistan.
> 
> This Diplomatic Shiplomatic thing wouldnt work in Afghanistan's case because Revenge is their Motto...Bullet is their Childhood Love and Guns are their everyday Romance..They dont understand any other Lang.They live with this ideology and die with it as well!
> 
> Sadly it's we who are on the receiving end here!
> 
> 
> We had treated IDPs and other Loyal Afghans very respectfully in the recent past.You do remember how people on individual and collective level financially,morally and physically supported them when they needed us in that crises.I personally saw people giving away their Salaries,Pocket money and other goods to help our brothers and sisters in pain.I have no problem with Loyal Afghanese living in Pakistan,they are as much Pakistanies as Me,You or Anybudy else.
> 
> Its just the disloyal ones that should be kicked out of here and be dealt with force.A Terrorist's Sympathizer,Financier and Helper is a Terrorist himself.As simple as that!



See, that's the point DV, most of the people are not aware of the sheer volume of intelligence/counterintell that Pakistan is experiencing. Reason? We're at war. These guys didn't attack a civilian institute, they attacked a military base. All of us have been told what the situation is and the best we can do is to remain prepared. That was adequately done. 


DV RULES said:


> Wow, You are talking like when everyone supposed to be obliged to agree with you!
> 
> In my point of view, that was Intelligence/counter-Intelligence fault no matter (ABCDEFGHIJK which agencies) and security laps.
> 
> That's debatable the intensity of intelligence required in Afghanistan to thwart any potential mishap and how.


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## Zarvan

@jaibi Air Force should have 10000 QRF of its own and every base should have at least 50 people protecting the installations all the time including snipers

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## Humble Analyst

cmpk1 said:


> 1) PAF didn't fail, it is not their job to be on the roads, you can't ask army to do the job of police.
> 
> 2) Civil administration has to step up, can't spend Rs100 Billion for just 2 metros while we forget about development in FATA! Development in these areas will do 90% of our job, but politicians have always let us down.
> 
> 3) No need to secure the whole Durrand line! Most of these TTP scums are in Nuristan, Kunar, Nangarhar, secure these border areas as first priority, rest we can deal with.
> 
> 4) Govt needs to step up its diplomacy as well, need to hand over/share all the dossier's, on Indian RAW's involvement in Afghanistan, with every friendly/ally & non-ally nations.
> 
> 5) Give better equipment & training to FC & police.
> 
> 6) Need to go all out now, with full might.
> 
> btw this base has always been a residential area. officers live here, most probably planned to kill them & their families.
> 
> still a failure since our men died. We cannot win this war without sincere efforts by the civil leadership, & can we just put all these mullah's behind bars or kill them? they're the most hypocrite of all!


Need to do vulnerability assessment on bases, camps, cantonments, on regular basis and it should be audited by third party teams. The teams should be from different arms.


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## iPhone

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> PDF members in particular and Pakistani in general---are you now ready to look at the screw ups and lapses in the security of the base---.
> 
> I mean to say----you can raise all kinds of slogans---and do all kinds of Ra Ra Ra----and talk about the bravado of the military men and that is fine----but do you have the courage to point the finger at yourself---and your security apparatus and how it failed?
> 
> It is over due now---.


are you kidding, sir. I and @Areesh and couple of others said that yesterday, 40 pages ago, this is a huge security failure, all the gallantry aside. Let's see here, I've studied and implemented security and planning professionally. And enemies knocking on your front door of sensitive military location, able to inflict so much pain, means your security sucks balls.

The worst performance was displayed at the GHQ 6 years ago. Where they only had a front guard check post that enemies were able to infiltrate easily and access the inner rings of the GHQ. Both Kamra and Mehran bases were just as bad if not worse. This one here, wasn't bad at those level but still a huge security failure.

When you design security for a sensitive, high target location. You implement security in tiers. * Most commonly in three tiers, outer, inner and a mid level.* But depending on high profile nature of a place you can increase the tiers. So lets see, the outer layer would be your guard check post with id scanners and a road block barrier. The barrier is very important as it impedes and controls traffic i.e. car or truck laden with explosives. Now comes your mid level ring. This is where you're going to post your heavy duty gear, more scanners and heavy duty barriers. The most important rule of thumb is, you cannot have any soft targets, offices, cafeterias, gyms, playgrounds, places of worships, in between the outer and mid level. Because in the even the outer tier is breached enemy can inflict damage on you. As in this case, where terrorist were limited to the outer check post but still were able to access the mosque and kill people. 

So, now you've implement your three tiers. Are you safe? No. Question is what kind of coordination and communication you have between your security rings. If the outer level is engaged, are they alerting the mid and inner level immediatly. Without cooperation, your security apparatus falls to it's knees. 

This isn't the first time a Pakistani military base came under attack. They should have upgraded their security after GHQ breached. You live in the US, you've seen how security of buildings where public must have access works. Rings and rings of security is in place. Heavy duty barriers, guard dogs, scanners, the works. It can be done in Pakistan, too. But only if they value human life. Sadly, they dont. A soldier dying while engaged with terrorists is praised beyond words, but no body, not even his family, asks questions, why their son was killed? it was due to your poor security that you failed to protect my son. But no body asks questions. And thus, the powers that be, continue to play with the lives of poor Pakistanis.

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## Irfan Baloch

Icarus said:


> There are dozens of such alerts generated on a daily basis, it is easier to highlight one in hindsight. That is particularly true for badaber, since its an area with significant terrorist activity.


dont want to disclose location on open forum but I have witnessed a "wont happen here and to me" attitude at one place during my recent visit. 
god help us

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## VCheng

Irfan Baloch said:


> "wont happen here and to me"



Until it does happen.


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## Irfan Baloch

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> PDF members in particular and Pakistani in general---are you now ready to look at the screw ups and lapses in the security of the base---.
> 
> I mean to say----you can raise all kinds of slogans---and do all kinds of Ra Ra Ra----and talk about the bravado of the military men and that is fine----but do you have the courage to point the finger at yourself---and your security apparatus and how it failed?
> 
> It is over due now---.


there is no way to prevent attack on a base so the only saving grace will be loss minimisation. the real victory is going after these terrorists and drag their dead bodies out of mosques, madrassahs, caves and houses
the attack was a success as far as TTP is concerned they scored bug by killing the people in the mosque
the only thing is that they were all killed through gunshots of the military and the ones shown in pictures didnt manage to blow themselves up although all had samtax laden explosives vests on them.

i dont expect any better reaction or defence of any bases or schools or mosques that will come under attack next time.
the win will be when you or me will go our selves and start mob lynching of those known living among us that are hosting the terrorists because our leaders are busy saving the democracy and the military is still licking the lal masjid wounds



Assange said:


> Let those fallen rest in peace.....
> 
> I really think Pakistan should think about its policy of using proxy...Because TTP also was a proxy of Pakistan once...


our proxies are Kashimri Mujahideen and Mullah Omar . they have never attacked us

TTP, BLA and Mukti Bahani are your proxies.. they have only fought against Pakistan ..either you are acting stupid and innocent or a clever dick but failing badly.. TTP leadership and its members have no history of going out of the country to fight someone else.
like BLA .. TTP leadership sits in Afghanistan and is assisted by Indians. just like Mukti Bahani was by you.
so as long as you will continue with your policy .. attacks on Indian camps and patrols will continue... works both ways my innocent and ill informed good hearted peace loving shanti singing friend

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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> Yes that has been a regular MO of the terrorists to try and engage a post in a firefight and then attempt to use the fog of war as a cover to slip people into the border. However, that tactic was most effective when PA held only fringes of land along the border and some strategic positions whereas the TTP held most of the agencies. Now, the situation is drastically changed, there are more posts overlooking these approaches which makes it difficult to engage them all at the same time plus they have arty and mortar support from their coy, bn or bd HQ, the roads are all held by the LEAs and there are checkpoints all over, local lashkars police the tribal territory along with FC. So over all, it has become more difficult for Ts to just cross over and attack en mass. What is important now, is to eliminate local command structures and sympathizers that do not cross the border but keep rotating militants between areas to keep them from being found out until its time to launch an attack. And these people are not coming from Afghanistan, you might remember after the attack on Shuja Khanzada, conspirators were arrested from a madrassah in Islamabad built less than two kilometers from IIU. So yes, whereas cross border elements are responsible for this carnage, local elements are the ones that are making sure that it is successful and even if we were to seal the border, they would have no problem recruiting from local madrassahs. That is why an inward looking approach is being stressed at the moment and IBOs in urban/semi-urban areas are targeting seemingly well known and respected local figures who secretly maintained ties with outfits like AQ, IS, TTP, LeJ, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> The data was not destroyed, that is the beauty of the data. It was only the physical infrastructure that was damaged, which if the will of the civil govt exists, can easily be replaced in a day to resume operations as per routine. I'm no fan of Afghans either, but I have lived in FATA during these Ops and I understand the stakes of the local population in Afghanistan and across. People are married across the Durand Line, have homes on one side and grazing ground on the other, some just come to work in Pakistan as daily wage labourers. So there is some genuine traffic.
> 
> 
> 
> We have significantly strengthened our side of the border, I assure you. One of our primary concerns is to make this border safer for Pakistan. Geography has done us no favour as the Durand Line was made on a map with next to no input from the ground, and in many places makes no sense but none the less, we have established posts where there were previously none and constantly work to plug the gaps in the border and channel traffic towards the official crossing points.



I swear this conversation was about having a physical barrier at the borders but it has dragged in so many irrelevant points in the conversation. Do you have a wall Phobia? living in houses must be difficult!

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## iPhone

Adecypher said:


> Please watch this program and listen to the views of Brig (R).Javed Hussain...


thank you for posting. I watched it and Brig. Javed Hussain is my new hero. THis is how a solider should talk, that's the old breed for you. Gallant and outspoken. He openly admits to security failures in this attack and all the way down to GHQ.

What I found interesting is he's in favor of taking the fight to TTP in Afghanistan. So, what say people. Brig. retired suggested we use either SSG or an airstrike, now Buraq is also available and take out fazullah. Second option is convince the U.S. to take him out. I love how Brig. said, forget Afghan gov't, they'll never be on board, we have to take the fight to ttp there. I'm in favor of this idea. take that bastard pig out, it'll save us a lot of innocent people on our side. Relations with Afghan will take a down turn but in time it'll be a thing of the past and diplomacy can continue with them.

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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> I swear this conversation was about having a physical barrier at the borders but it has dragged in so many irrelevant points in the conversation. Do you have a wall Phobia? living in houses must be difficult!



I am merely being pragmatic, if believing in a wall makes you feel at ease, please do so by all means.


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## Humble Analyst

Irfan Baloch said:


> there is no way to prevent attack on a base so the only saving grace will be loss minimisation. the real victory is going after these terrorists and drag their dead bodies out of mosques, madrassahs, caves and houses
> the attack was a success as far as TTP is concerned they scored bug by killing the people in the mosque
> the only thing is that they were all killed through gunshots of the military and the ones shown in pictures didnt manage to blow themselves up although all had samtax laden explosives vests on them.
> 
> i dont expect any better reaction or defence of any bases or schools or mosques that will come under attack next time.
> the win will be when you or me will go our selves and start mob lynching of those known living among us that are hosting the terrorists because our leaders are busy saving the democracy and the military is still licking the lal masjid wounds


I have a few comments.
1) It is obvious that we need more drills.
2) For the sake of morale loss of life has to be minimized and Shahadat is great but we need more ghazis in order to keep enemy down.
3)Command posts should be in APCs wherever possible to minimize the exposure. 
4) There is always room for improvement so revisit all incidents with open mind instead of defensive attitude.
5) Do vulnerability assessment on regular basis from outside in view. Get feed back from all levels (Sepoys, NCOs etc.) and from non defense reliable personnel as untrained persons can see things which trained persons may miss.
6) Always believe there is room for improvement.
7) Instead of blaming a lack of resources, always think how current resources can be utilized better.


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## I.R.A

Black Richi Rich said:


> SOME LOONS on here will accuse me of being a dirty Indian Hinduvata agent for saying this
> THIS attack here is a failure for security, and i am 100% confident there are details that are being covered up, Its kind of ironic when the attack was taking place and the DG ISPR dude never mentioned that the terrorists hit the masjid, its the first thing they did, and theres pictures of a Army helicopter that crashed, i honestly wouldn't be shocked if those bastards brought it down. There has been major incidents which were covered up by the army in the past, like the fact that an entire company was taken out in tirah vallley, I am 100% confident this will be the same case.



We got the news details and pics, everything to see after all, may be some delay but still it is out, so how is it covered up then? Or you expected everything to be at the scale of APS so then may be (for you) nothing would have been covered up?

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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> I am merely being pragmatic, if believing in a wall makes you feel at ease, please do so by all means.



It has made Humanity safe and still does!

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## Icarus

Path-Finder said:


> It has made Humanity safe and still does!



I hope your optimism allows you to make your dreams true. I may differ with you over means but at the end of the day, our interests are aligned after all.


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## Black Richi Rich

Color_Less_Sky said:


> We got the news details and pics, everything to see after all, may be some delay but still it is out, so how is it covered up then? Or you expected everything to be at the scale of APS so then may be (for you) nothing would have been covered up?


I have a damn good reason to believe there is a cover up, bk in 2012 when terrorists attacked the PAF air force base 2 AWACs were damaged from the attack 1 was completely destroyed, it was never reported until some-one leaked the details, theres been countless operations where things have gone wrong that get covered up, I'm not talking out of my ***, I'm speaking with facts. It wouldn't shock me at all if the QRF underperformed just like they under performed during the APC attack. The SSG in that case dd there job for them. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened and the terrorists held there own against the QRF until the real QRF aka SSG arrived to the scene and swept them out.


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## Path-Finder

Icarus said:


> I hope your optimism allows you to make your dreams true. I may differ with you over means but at the end of the day, our interests are aligned after all.



at the end of the day we can agree on as long as is safe, doesn't matter which approach is used.

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## Shamain

Irfan Baloch said:


> dont want to disclose location on open forum but I have witnessed a "wont happen here and to me" attitude at one place during my recent visit.
> god help us


 in case of kamra we read that,even incase of Aps we read that. And even now this base.
It means even if daily alerts are issued, that there has to be some system in place where these alerts arent taken so lightly and some followup action is done. I had read that incase of attack on karachi airport warnings were already issued, yet it happened. Imean ido believe whatever loss one is destined to meet happens. But here we are at fault too in some way. I also believe Aps attack was totally our own security failure. 

Lastly, whether ppl like it or not but we need to do smething abt afghan refugees. There is a limit to everything, many of them are ttp sympathizers.


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## I.R.A

Black Richi Rich said:


> I have a damn good reason to believe there is a cover up, bk in 2012 when terrorists attacked the PAF air force base 2 AWACs were damaged from the attack 1 was completely destroyed, it was never reported until some-one leaked the details, theres been countless operations where things have gone wrong that get covered up, I'm not talking out of my ***, I'm speaking with facts. It wouldn't shock me at all if the QRF underperformed just like they under performed during the APC attack. The SSG in that case dd there job for them. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened and the terrorists held there own against the QRF until the real QRF aka SSG arrived to the scene and swept them out.



So what are you expecting? What is covered up?

Edit: See I have been complaining they keep us bloody civilians in dark, may be you can inform us with facts, please let us know too what is the cover up?


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## Shamain

Icarus said:


> I am merely being pragmatic, if believing in a wall makes you feel at ease, please do so by all means.


Aap security analyst ya counter terrorism expert hain for real?? Apko kis nay banaya ct expert ,someone must give me ur job and see how things sort out fast.
I wont share my plans what iwud have done cuz ummm iwill think abt it once i hold that job but iwont be slow as you. Jitni dair may aap posts likhtay hain may nay ab tak aadhay say ziada terrorism pakistan say khatam kar dya hota.

Plz dont ban me for saying this,irem u are a mod too.


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## Super Falcon

nForce said:


> Not a solution, because you cannot implement any.
> 1. You cannot go inside a sovereign country. They already hate you a lot, if you do that, you will have both the Taliban and ANA as your enemy.
> 
> 2. You have no authoritative power to block funds or freeze accounts. It's a complicated process.
> 
> 
> If someone like you manages to get to a position of power, then a lot of problems will be solved one way or other.
> 
> Good to have @Spectre back.


I dont want to be in power but we should not stuck either



Pak_Track said:


> Tranq darts can still kill people.


Yes but there are chances they wont and there are shock guns which paralize human fod 5 min


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## nForce

Super Falcon said:


> I dont want to be in power but we should not stuck either


Why ? No.. Bold people like you is the very need of the hour.


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## Icarus

Shamain said:


> Aap security analyst ya counter terrorism expert hain for real?? Apko kis nay banaya ct expert ,someone must give me ur job and see how things sort out fast.
> I wont share my plans what iwud have done cuz ummm iwill think abt it once i hold that job but iwont be slow as you. Jitni dair may aap posts likhtay hain may nay ab tak aadhay say ziada terrorism pakistan say khatam kar dya hota.
> 
> Plz dont ban me for saying this,irem u are a mod too.



I will not ban you, I have nothing against a difference of opinion, I welcome it. That's how you diversify ideas and come up with a solution. 
Yaar I am a military man, and as dense I might seem, I am also a part of this nation's front line against terrorism. Curse your luck

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## Black Richi Rich

Color_Less_Sky said:


> So what are you expecting? What is covered up?
> 
> Edit: See I have been complaining they keep us bloody civilians in dark, may be you can inform us with facts, please let us know too what is the cover up?


the cover up is the terrorists did more damage that what the reports are saying, I hope I'm wrong.


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## Mrc

Black Richi Rich said:


> SOME LOONS on here will accuse me of being a dirty Indian Hinduvata agent for saying this
> THIS attack here is a failure for security, and i am 100% confident there are details that are being covered up, Its kind of ironic when the attack was taking place and the DG ISPR dude never mentioned that the terrorists hit the masjid, its the first thing they did, and theres pictures of a Army helicopter that crashed, i honestly wouldn't be shocked if those bastards brought it down. There has been major incidents which were covered up by the army in the past, like the fact that an entire company was taken out in tirah vallley, I am 100% confident this will be the same case.




I ve seen the news clip u are referring to...the crash pic is from a crash in swat few months back...

As per cover up stories...in pk press there are several injured people who have been interviewed ... i will try to post a link..it collaborates ispr account

Generally 2 persons entered the mosque in canstiblary uniform and asked people to stand in a line so they can be evacuated as there has been a terrorist attack...people complied ... they were all shot..

At this point firing started from outside and bastards ran shouting "army has arrived"
That goes with 10 minutes response time....

I will find the link


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## Mrc

دہشتگردوں نے کہا ”نمازیو! ایک طرف ہوجاﺅ اور پھر گولیاں چلا دیں،عینی شاہدین - JavedCh.Com


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## Black Richi Rich

Mrc said:


> I ve seen the news clip u are referring to...the crash pic is from a crash in swat few months back...
> 
> As per cover up stories...in pk press there are several injured people who have been interviewed ... i will try to post a link..it collaborates ispr account
> 
> Generally 2 persons entered the mosque in canstiblary uniform and asked people to stand in a line so they can be evacuated as there has been a terrorist attack...people complied ... they were all shot..
> 
> At this point firing started from outside and bastards ran shouting "army has arrived"
> That goes with 10 minutes response time....
> 
> I will find the link


its been confirmed by the pilot of the helicopter that the helo took a hit and he had to crash land, ISPR DG baqwaass has come along and covered it up, saying it wasn't the case, who would you rather believe the guy who was in the helo or a guy who sits behind a desk and makes up things.


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## Mrc

Link ?? How is this confirmed??


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## Black Richi Rich

Mrc said:


> Link ?? How is this confirmed??


ptv did an interview with the pilot its confirmed on this thread. 
Pak Army Aviation helicopter hard landing under fire


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## Mrc

Link or you are just a liar spreading rumors...


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## Mrc

Sory i take it back..... just saw the news


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## Mrc

But than there is not a huge cover up if people are freely telling what actually happened and its being aired on government run channel


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## MastanKhan

iPhone said:


> are you kidding, sir. I and @Areesh and couple of others said that yesterday, 40 pages ago, this is a huge security failure, all the gallantry aside. Let's see here, I've studied and implemented security and planning professionally. And enemies knocking on your front door of sensitive military location, able to inflict so much pain, means your security sucks balls.
> 
> The worst performance was displayed at the GHQ 6 years ago. Where they only had a front guard check post that enemies were able to infiltrate easily and access the inner rings of the GHQ. Both Kamra and Mehran bases were just as bad if not worse. This one here, wasn't bad at those level but still a huge security failure.
> 
> When you design security for a sensitive, high target location. You implement security in tiers. * Most commonly in three tiers, outer, inner and a mid level.* But depending on high profile nature of a place you can increase the tiers. So lets see, the outer layer would be your guard check post with id scanners and a road block barrier. The barrier is very important as it impedes and controls traffic i.e. car or truck laden with explosives. Now comes your mid level ring. This is where you're going to post your heavy duty gear, more scanners and heavy duty barriers. The most important rule of thumb is, you cannot have any soft targets, offices, cafeterias, gyms, playgrounds, places of worships, in between the outer and mid level. Because in the even the outer tier is breached enemy can inflict damage on you. As in this case, where terrorist were limited to the outer check post but still were able to access the mosque and kill people.
> 
> So, now you've implement your three tiers. Are you safe? No. Question is what kind of coordination and communication you have between your security rings. If the outer level is engaged, are they alerting the mid and inner level immediatly. Without cooperation, your security apparatus falls to it's knees.
> 
> This isn't the first time a Pakistani military base came under attack. They should have upgraded their security after GHQ breached. You live in the US, you've seen how security of buildings where public must have access works. Rings and rings of security is in place. Heavy duty barriers, guard dogs, scanners, the works. It can be done in Pakistan, too. But only if they value human life. Sadly, they dont. A soldier dying while engaged with terrorists is praised beyond words, but no body, not even his family, asks questions, why their son was killed? it was due to your poor security that you failed to protect my son. But no body asks questions. And thus, the powers that be, continue to play with the lives of poor Pakistanis.




Hi,

Thank you for your comments---. At this time---Pakistan needs North Korea style solution----.


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## Black Richi Rich

Mrc said:


> But than there is not a huge cover up if people are freely telling what actually happened and its being aired on government run channel


its a cover up when the pilot of a helo confirms he was shotdown and dg ispr says he wasnt


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## Mrc

Black Richi Rich said:


> its a cover up when the pilot of a helo confirms he was shotdown and dg ispr says he wasnt




Well they have played it down...i agree..

But does it even matter?? 
U go to war ... u loose people ... u loose equipment...so what.

If any one thinks the people of pakistan are going to bow to will of a bastard retard mullah and his illegal born goones just caz they can explode a bomb or shoot at an heli...
They shud think again


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## DV RULES

jaibi said:


> Brashness cannot be utilised in our situation. However, we need to be equally hard against all sympathizers.
> 
> 
> See, that's the point DV, most of the people are not aware of the sheer volume of intelligence/counterintell that Pakistan is experiencing. Reason? We're at war. *These guys didn't attack a civilian institute, they attacked a military base.* All of us have been told what the situation is and the best we can do is to remain prepared. That was adequately done.



They are commissioned to protect Pakistan & its people under the constitution of Pakistan and when they attacked then please don't categorize by type of system but *THEY ATTACK WHOLE PAKISTAN*......._So because of this ...me, you and every one is worrying, debating, arguing, asking what happen, what to do, how to do and with whom. That is the unity and lets give gesture to military that they are not alone but every person of this nation is military man under constitutional obligations and they stand with their armed forces in common fight against Terrorism and to defend constitutional borders of Pakistan._



araz said:


> Thats because you are talking to experience. Learn from it. It will help.
> Araz



Thanks, I will return experience with some candies.......Keep it.


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## Shamain

Icarus said:


> I will not ban you, I have nothing against a difference of opinion, I welcome it. That's how you diversify ideas and come up with a solution.
> Yaar I am a military man, and as dense I might seem,* I am also a part of this nation's front line against terrorism.* Curse your luck


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## araz

DV RULES said:


> They are commissioned to protect Pakistan & its people under the constitution of Pakistan and when they attacked then please don't categorize by type of system but *THEY ATTACK WHOLE PAKISTAN*......._So because of this ...me, you and every one is worrying, debating, arguing, asking what happen, what to do, how to do and with whom. That is the unity and lets give gesture to military that they are not alone but every person of this nation is military man under constitutional obligations and they stand with their armed forces in common fight against Terrorism and to defend constitutional borders of Pakistan._
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I will return experience with some candies.......Keep it.


I read your full post and retracted the snarl of a response . I think we all have to understand the difficult task facing the ISI. They get hundreds of reports of impending attacks but how do you determine which one to act upon. The resources are limited and you can only do so much. There maybe a lot of "daikha jaiga jee" which is inherent in our mindset. While agreeing that the mindset needs to change softer targets will always remain vulnerable as army cannot be every where. These are difficult times and difficult decisions sometimes have to be made.
Analyse any event in history and you will see a clear trend of evid3nce pointing to the event. Why was it not acted upon is sometimes the negligence of one person, or the simple case of distribution of resources to guard the hard targets. N9thing is ever perfect with a retrospectoscope. We are in a state of war and losses though regetful will happen. This is the ground reality.
As to candies you can send them to @ jaibi. Iam sure he will be very pleased to receive them. I am not at the candy eating stage now
A


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## monitor

* Pakistan military installations attacked by terrorists since 2009 *


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## shaheenmissile

monitor said:


> * Pakistan military installations attacked by terrorists since 2009 *


and yet people have the cheek to claim that Pakistani military is supporting Taliban.,


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## ziaulislam

a weak spot is plcae where people gather, the mosque should have been more secure loation. this is happening again and again . better planning is needed, even now multiple bases have next to zerp security besides a boundary wall. we need better tech


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## Mrc

And in return taliban own casuality is running around probably 50000 dead around 30000 in jails and very little capability to cause chaos despite police forces in pak being non existant


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## ziaulislam

overall the terroist attck was successful in its objective to cause mass causalities and they did that 23 PAF employees is big target


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## Mrc

Security of all bases needs to be brought into the 21st century.. hd cctv, double walls and multiple security cordones...i hope some one is listening

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## Neutron

ziaulislam said:


> a weak spot is plcae where people gather, the mosque should have been more secure loation. this is happening again and again . better planning is needed, even now multiple bases have next to zerp security besides a boundary wall. we need better tech



Military is overstretched. You don't have enough resources and manpower


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## Shamain

araz said:


> I read your full post and retracted the snarl of a response . I think we all have to understand the difficult task facing the ISI. They get hundreds of reports of impending attacks but how do you determine which one to act upon. The resources are limited and you can only do so much. There maybe a lot of "daikha jaiga jee" which is inherent in our mindset. While agreeing that the mindset needs to change softer targets will always remain vulnerable as army cannot be every where. These are difficult times and difficult decisions sometimes have to be made.
> Analyse any event in history and you will see a clear trend of evid3nce pointing to the event. Why was it not acted upon is sometimes the negligence of one person, or the simple case of distribution of resources to guard the hard targets. N9thing is ever perfect with a retrospectoscope. We are in a state of war and losses though regetful will happen. This is the ground reality.
> As to candies you can send them to @ jaibi. Iam sure he will be very pleased to receive them. I am not at the candy eating stage now
> A


But u cant deny that all the military bases that were attacked in the past including karachi airport,we had security lapses. Forget abt any impending attack alerts.the kind of security measures that need to be in place at these places were missing. 
I wud any given day excuse lack of security at badaber camp but rest..can we?

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## Lurch Adams

Pakistan Army needs all its resources to fight TTP. They could easily deal with the TTP if only they didn't block all resources on the Eastern front where they want Pakistanis to believe that India is just waiting to pounce on them. Why don't they just let the civilian government handle the peace process with India? Why do they have to insist on fighting an imaginary enemy when their real enemy is very much inside the country?


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## Humble Analyst

Path-Finder said:


> at the end of the day we can agree on as long as is safe, doesn't matter which approach is used.


Wall is it practical, physically and economically?


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## Path-Finder

Humble Analyst said:


> Wall is it practical, physically and economically?



I believe it is, a personal opinion I have. There is a alternative system in place now which seems to be working!


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## Informant

Bratva said:


> Itnay app bengaali baba rehtay nahi



Bak bak nahin karta bas .

2 days.


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## Humble Analyst

Thinkingsoldier said:


> Military is overstretched. You don't have enough resources and manpower


The utilization of available resources is innovation. Everybody can win plenty of resources and man power. England won 2nd World war by bringing in USA and USSR that is diplomacy, strategy planning and innovation. We need to think out of the box!

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## Pak_Track

Super Falcon said:


> I dont want to be in power but we should not stuck either
> 
> 
> Yes but there are chances they wont and there are shock guns which paralize human fod 5 min


Tranq and shock guns are, overall, ineffective in firefights. Terrorists are often high on drugs as well, so shock guns won't work on them. Also, you need to be close to deploy a stun gun.
It's really hard to take in someone alive, who's willing to go down the hardest way possible.


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## Mrc

Thinking out of box wins wars

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## ice_man

Lurch Adams said:


> Pakistan Army needs all its resources to fight TTP. They could easily deal with the TTP if only they didn't block all resources on the Eastern front where they want Pakistanis to believe that India is just waiting to pounce on them. Why don't they just let the civilian government handle the peace process with India? Why do they have to insist on fighting an imaginary enemy when their real enemy is very much inside the country?



the real enemy is on the eastern border the one that sponsors the TTP.

so yes we cannot turn our backs to the snake. and when we try to engage the enemy on the west. You start LoC violations to protect your beloved TTP.

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## DV RULES

araz said:


> I read your full post and retracted the snarl of a response . I think we all have to understand the difficult task facing the ISI. They get hundreds of reports of impending attacks but how do you determine which one to act upon. The resources are limited and you can only do so much. There maybe a lot of "daikha jaiga jee" which is inherent in our mindset. While agreeing that the mindset needs to change softer targets will always remain vulnerable as army cannot be every where. These are difficult times and difficult decisions sometimes have to be made.
> Analyse any event in history and you will see a clear trend of evid3nce pointing to the event. Why was it not acted upon is sometimes the negligence of one person, or the simple case of distribution of resources to guard the hard targets. N9thing is ever perfect with a retrospectoscope. We are in a state of war and losses though regetful will happen. This is the ground reality.
> As to candies you can send them to @ jaibi. Iam sure he will be very pleased to receive them. I am not at the candy eating stage now
> A



Issue is not about ISI but readiness of CRF or DSF within their duties. In all previous attacks on PAF Bases we have observed that PAF has no combat level we have in PA and that is obvious because of their particular job description, since we came to know about multiple level security system introduced by Pakistan armed forces as CRF-LCF-SSW/SSG. If there is 0 Tolerance security or "first barrier is the last barrier" Pakistan armed forces must managed the things to such extent where any mishap will encountered & terminated at first barrier. I am agree with you when you are saying that the general doctrine in our people of "Dekhi Jai Gi" is the main problem but when we are talking about organized institution like Armed forces & in environment of War on Terrorism there is no reason of flexibility in protection of state assets vital for its National security.

Next main problem and grave concern we are facing is permission of residential plotting/societies, colonies around armed forces strategic installations. In general scenarios military officials are to be blamed when their business interests are vital than security of strategic installations after all nobody hates money. That's an open secret.

Just for an example new Airport in Lahore was very far from residential area at the time of its opening but now Property Mafia covered that space by attracting people by advertising " Residential Luxury scheme at 5min drive from Airport"? Question: whom to blame over this grave mistake? Civilian or military property businessmen cashed every opportunity jeopardizing strategic assets. Let's think that....Who will oppose to Retired or On duty General/Brigadier if they decided to invest money in a Housing Scheme located at 5min drive to Airport? Nobody...in our actual official or social business environment and people will invest because it was protected by Army General of Air Marshal or Admiral what so ever.
Come to next scenario, shops and unplanned housing; if you want to stop construction then best time is to resist over first brick. Shops were allowed so people make their way to construct by this opportunity so first then second then a whole small town. Question who should ban them? Civilian government! No...that's not their duty. That's the duty of Armed forces management not to allow any construction and inform civilian government to take necessary action against unsanctioned or unplanned housing structure may threat state's strategic assets. In my point of view there shouldn't be any construction within 800 Meters of radius minimum then we will be able to protect any installation in true meanings when Ist check post with QRF personnel at 300 meter from installation boundary will be last Check post. Rest of 500 meters could be secured by Civilian Elite forces who will check every in & outbound traffic from/to Ist CP.

Mosques always should be there where minimum 70 meter surrounding area is plain without a single branch of plants & mosques should be constructed approximate 250 Meters from Entrance & 150 meter at distance from boundary.

These are issues which must be addressed to prepare any installation (no matter if it is functional or not) for potential attack. Just making attentions toward bravery and determination question of security will not solve....need practical measures.

Intelligence is doing its job efficiently and there is reason because intelligence gave warning to Peshawar administration and KPK interior ministry sent letter (867 .....I might be mistaken about Number) to military establishment in August about possible attack on APS. There were news that even prime Intelligence agency warned over terrorist attack in APS. But as you said.....Dekha Jai Ga and we get result of Shahadat of 135 Kids.

Even no step has been taken despite intelligence reports that Badaber PAF camp could be potential target for terrorists but again administrative faults.

Since we couldn't take responsibility of duty in real sense as each Pakistani, we couldn't fight effectively and save innocent lives and strategic assets.

I can accept that nothing is perfect & not perfect when i am saying about responsibility of duty but being a nation and when a war is declared on us we must increase intensity of responsibilities. There is no relaxation until Pakistan will get its goals in this war and that should be clear to all who ever and where ever within territory of Pakistan.

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## araz

Shamain said:


> But u cant deny that all the military bases that were attacked in the past including karachi airport,we had security lapses. Forget abt any impending attack alerts.the kind of security measures that need to be in place at these places were missing.
> I wud any given day excuse lack of security at badaber camp but rest..can we?


Yes fair enough the security at Karachi and possibly at Kamra was lax and should be accepted as such. There are a myriad of problems one has to accept. Some of them pertain to perceptions others due to cold hard facts. We are very reactive as a nation and inspite of attacks on Musharraf no one latched on to the fact that the air bases could be a target. So Karachi happened and then we still are in a state of confusion about Kamra. However we lost 2 platforms at karachi and one more at Kamra. So from that point of view this was sloppy piece of work. Kamra given the official version maybe defendable but Karachi certainly not. We dont have the money to build high walls around each and evey base. Other than the time taken the money remains a problem.All the chiefs and PMs cars would probably not be worth more than a 20 foot high wall around a couple of bases if not one. Obviously we need to find resources but traditionally mosques have been open areas utilized by all and sundry. We may have to rethink and replan our strategy butthen what do you do to schools. The problem 9f deal8ng with vermin is they will not stop at anything. You may wall up all the bases but the masses will still remain insecure as by their warped logic anyone remotely related to the forces is a genuine target. So where do we go. The sort of planning and execution should have been done from 2001 but no one believed the war will come back to haunt us. However we need to plan for the future and inspite of all the speed there wont be perimeter walls around all the bases 8n all the towns and around all the Garrisons.
Next if you built perimeter walls what will you do to the incidence of people taking a pot shot or launching an RPG towards a hangar. It may reduce te risk but certainly does not exclude it completely 
A

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## ziaulislam

overall the terroist attck was successful in its objective to cause mass causalities and they did that 23 PAF employees is big target


Thinkingsoldier said:


> Military is overstretched. You don't have enough resources and manpower


world 5th largest army is over stretched. we have over a million troops, counting the paramilitery!

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## Lurch Adams

ice_man said:


> the real enemy is on the eastern border the one that sponsors the TTP.
> 
> so yes we cannot turn our backs to the snake. and when we try to engage the enemy on the west. You start LoC violations to protect your beloved TTP.



Yaar kabhi toh bas karo....

Have you ever logically followed up what the Army/ISI has been telling you all this while? I know you will not believe me when I tell you that Indians in general and our government in particular has ZERO intention of taking advantage of a Pakistani de-escalation at either the International Border or LOC, so I will explain it logically instead.

Okay, assuming you are right about India sponsoring TTP (which you are not, by the way), so how does that necessitate massing on the Punjab border? You think India will do what, walk into Lahore? Even on LOC, do you think the world will watch in silence if one nuclear-armed country crosses the border into the other? For that matter, that whole space is now China's concern as well, what with the entire Highway project and CPEC linkup. There is no way India will risk such a situation, where NATO, the Security Council AND China will all pile up on us and demand we pull back.

Please understand that our mindset is totally different. As a country, either by force or through habit, India has to assess all pros and cons before arriving at a decision. If you think the Indian government actually thought that they could afford to create any situation at the border, then why do you think it has waited all this while? I can assure you that the Indian public does not want a war with Pakistan, and our government cannot go against public will.

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## shaheenmissile

Handing back control of parts of Tribal areas to Tribal elders supported by Paramilitary forces is not working well as Terrorists are infiltrating back into the areas. While there is an ongoing operation in Khyber Agency and certain parts like Tirah Valley are seeing full blown Military operation.Other parts such as Jamrud town was handed back to Local elders and Government militia. That was supposed to bring back normality in the area but instead as the army left,terrorists came back. There was a suicide Blast in Jamrud Market on 1st September this month killing 6 and a mini operation had to be started to sweep out the terrorists which resulted in curfews and multiple arrests. Current spat of terrorist attacks such as yesterday's Peshawar Badabher attack can also be linked to Khyber agency and some other tribal areas where Army operation was stopped , locals allowed to take over as they always had according to their tribal lifestyle,while Government supports them with paramilitary forces. Its all a big mess now. Many tribal people still have affiliation and sympathies with terrorists and will keep providing them safe havens as soon as Army turns their back.
South Waziristan is a similar example. A prolonged operation purged out terrorists,much construction work was done to appease local tribes. But as soon as the Army left.Slowly terrorists came back in many parts of South Waziristan. 
This was is set to continue for many years to come until at some point the tribal people change their mentality.


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## jaibi

PAF has a very elaborate set up, Zarvi. This is the reason why the insurgents were successfully isolated. 


Zarvan said:


> @jaibi Air Force should have 10000 QRF of its own and every base should have at least 50 people protecting the installations all the time including snipers



That's what I'm trying to tell you. We are in the middle of an LIC and our agents of action are expected to be attacked. That's what happened. It's nothing to do with the nature of the target, as you are taking it. 


DV RULES said:


> They are commissioned to protect Pakistan & its people under the constitution of Pakistan and when they attacked then please don't categorize by type of system but *THEY ATTACK WHOLE PAKISTAN*......._So because of this ...me, you and every one is worrying, debating, arguing, asking what happen, what to do, how to do and with whom. That is the unity and lets give gesture to military that they are not alone but every person of this nation is military man under constitutional obligations and they stand with their armed forces in common fight against Terrorism and to defend constitutional borders of Pakistan._
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I will return experience with some candies.......Keep it.



No, you did not.

@Shamain are you accusing me, perhaps?


Sino Dragon said:


> Have some manners. Don't choose selective posts and see the context before accusing me. You seem to be an ill minded person.
> 
> @jaibi did I misbehaved on any of the post ? I don't know what this man is talking about.


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## batmannow

Its about time PAF & SSG units should take action in Afghanistan against Pakistani run away terrorist s & urgently ?


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## Shamain

jaibi said:


> PAF has a very elaborate set up, Zarvi. This is the reason why the insurgents were successfully isolated.
> 
> 
> That's what I'm trying to tell you. We are in the middle of an LIC and our agents of action are expected to be attacked. That's what happened. It's nothing to do with the nature of the target, as you are taking it.
> 
> 
> No, you did not.
> 
> @Shamain are you accusing me, perhaps?


No iwasnt accusing u of anything. That sinodragon was making some weird posts which is what i and another member were pointing out, that he seems like a falseflagger and a troll. So nothing abt u.


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## tarrar

The only way to deal with this cross border terrorism s for Pakistan to seal the border, fence it & mine it heavily all the way. Deportation of all Afghan refugees from Pakistan, hunting them down & driving them out of Pakistan is in the best interests of Pakistan. As far as Gen. Bajwa saying Afghan bhai bhai, he & other needs to think again that there is a valid threat in Afghanistan against Pakistan by the name of Northern Alliance they are united with India in a cause to harm Pakistan in every possible way & both are trying very hard to break Pakistan. Northern Alliance are already calming our KP province & all the way to Atock. 

Pakistan now should stop saying unwanted things & they need to act maturely against all these valid threats.

First step seal the border & mine it heavily, second should be to deport all Afghan refugees out of Pakistan. Do what is in the best interest of Pakistan, otherwise we will continue to lose lives & face even harder consequences. 

I am sure if PA & Intel Agencies dig harder they will find corrupt politicians involvement & specially ANP's involvement in all this crap.


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## jaibi

It was to clear his doubts, buddy. We should be respectful to all members of different nationalities. If he's a troll, he'd be picked out soon.


Shamain said:


> No iwasnt accusing u of anything. That sinodragon was making some weird posts which is what i and another member were pointing out, that he seems like a falseflagger and a troll. So nothing abt u.


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## I.R.A

When people like Taji Khokar openly live in a society supported by business and political tycoons then May ALLAH have mercy (which I think he has been having) on us, these attacks are nothing. I just got to witness how much weaponry, equipment have been recovered from his place and foreigners arrested from his place, on a thread on this forum. Taji living like this in heart of Pakistan near capital and having relations with people ranging from Abdul Aziz, Malik Riaz to Zardari. 

May be our karta dhartaz have always been ready to compromise Pakistan for a piece of land, or for a car or a healthy bank balance. This problem is more severe than these goons attacking bases, they are nothing, just expendables. The real threats are Tajiz which nobody dares to attack, Zardariz , Ranaz, Altaf, ANP and Abdul Aziz are some faces of this enemy. Funny chosen by people to kill the same people.


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## Shamain

jaibi said:


> It was to clear his doubts, buddy. We should be respectful to all members of different nationalities. If he's a troll, he'd be picked out soon.









Bro i didnt insult anyone or his nationaility.

U can see these posts. We cud be wrong but were pointing out only.

Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed. | Page 56

Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed. | Page 56

And this is my post he was quoting and complaining before u..

Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed. | Page 57

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## Adecypher

Color_Less_Sky said:


> The real threats are Tajiz which nobody dares to attack, Zardariz , Ranaz, Altaf, ANP and Abdul Aziz are some faces of this enemy. Funny chosen by people to kill the same people.



Bhai aap ki baat sach hey magar safai kerey ga kon? This is a million dollar question? Just pray that somehow our awaam get gherat and hosla to not vote for the usual suspects again. Also, we malign Politicians a lot but we forget that our bureaucratic machinery is also corrupt to the core...just a simple task of making a "Shanakhti Card" or "Changing your domicile" would leave you question your sanity. So the cleaning required should be from grass-roots level...but again it is way easier said than done.

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## I.R.A

Adecypher said:


> Bhai aap ki baat sach hey magar safai kerey ga kon? This is a million dollar question? Just pray that somehow our awaam gets gherat and hosla to not vote for the usual suspects again. Also, we malign Politicians a lot but we forget that our bureaucratic machinery is also corrupt to the core...just a simple task of making a "Shanakhti Card" or "Changing your domicile" would leave you question your sanity. So the cleaning required should be from grass-roots level...but again it is way easier said than done.



You forgot normal common Pakistani himself is as corrupt and evil as any other VIP Pakistani. The latter do it on a larger scale and we do it within limits of our dhoti. Well if we won't do justice, justice will come itself to us someday and by that time it will be too late for many of us.

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## Adecypher

Color_Less_Sky said:


> Well if we won't do justice, justice will come itself to us someday and by that time it will be too late for many of us.



True is baat sey mujhay Orya Maqbool Jan Sahib ki yeh speech yaad aati yeh:
(Apologies not able to find non-youtube source for this video)

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## Khan86

Its a camp not a base.. the attack was from two sides, one was encountered immediately slightly ahead of guardroom and the other took sometime..


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## I.R.A

Adecypher said:


> True is baat sey mujhay Orya Maqbool Jan Sahib ki yeh speech yaad aati yeh:
> (Apologies not able to find non-youtube source for this video)



I don't have access to youtube. The absence of justice is what TTP, Daesh etc have been feeding on mainly, even Orya Maqbool I read somewhere in his column praised ISIS. The confusion, the depression, the sense of being disowned, humiliated, these all stem from injustice and acts as recruitment tools for these organisations.


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## Adecypher

Color_Less_Sky said:


> *even Orya Maqbool I read somewhere in his column praised ISIS*.



Please (if possible) share a link to the source where Mr. Orya Sahib is supporting ISIS views as I think of him as a very Patriotic Pakistani (in the league of late Sir Hamid Gul Sahib).



Color_Less_Sky said:


> The confusion, the depression, the sense of being disowned, humiliated, these all stem from injustice and acts as recruitment tools for these organisations.



True, I think we expects a lot from the Politicians and alike BUT I think the need of the hour is to create a movement among the common people by the people to unite and encourage to try to eradicate corruption from the society...this menace is ingrained in our culture so much that it became a normal routine...sitting stand still and waiting for a maseeha will never work for us as it is proven useless by the history itself...

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## I.R.A

Adecypher said:


> Please (if possible) share a link to the source where Mr. Orya Sahib is supporting ISIS views as I think of him as a very Patriotic Pakistani (in the league of late Sir Hamid Gul Sahib).



Sorry dear finding a link would be impossible for me now, it was an article on the similar lines he mostly writes. At that time ISIS was an emerging phenomena for us Pakistanis, nothing much was known and he wrote on the lines of Islamic Caliphate and how it is unacceptable for some. Before people saw the real face of ISIS. I have not read him for quite sometime he may have changed his views about them now ALLAH knows best.



Adecypher said:


> True, I think we expects a lot from the Politicians and alike BUT I think the need of the hour is to create a movement among the common people by the people to unite and encourage to try to eradicate corruption from the society...this menace is ingrained in our culture so much that it became a normal routine...sitting stand still and waiting for a maseeha will never work for us as it is proven useless by the history itself...



It already is too late for many of us now in my personal opinion, nature has started cleansing society of the filth, on individual level many of us now realise that we should not have gone that way, I have met people cursing themselves and accepting it and saying Kash humay uss waqt ehsas ho jata. Nature has its own way of teaching us lessons, I think they call it Karma or something.

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## DV RULES

jaibi said:


> *No, you did not.*



come with logical arguments. Paheliya Guess karney ka time nahi he mere pass.


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## MastanKhan

This picture I believe is from iran-----but this is the need of





the hour---,

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## DV RULES

MastanKhan said:


> This picture I believe is from iran-----but this is the need of
> 
> View attachment 258612
> the hour---,



You also victim of emotionalism.


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## MastanKhan

DV RULES said:


> You also victim of emotionalism.



Hi,

No---I have always believed in a fair trial for terrorists and killers and then immediate execution---hanging by a rope----.


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## untitled

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> No---I have always believed in a fair trial for terrorists and killers and then immediate execution---hanging by a rope----.




Hang them yes but publicly no
You will be surprised by how much the world will talk about the "_human rights_" of these terrorists


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## krash

MastanKhan said:


> This picture I believe is from iran-----but this is the need of
> 
> View attachment 258612
> the hour---,





persona_non_grata said:


> Hang them yes but publicly no
> You will be surprised by how much the world will talk about the "_human rights_" of these terrorists



More importantly the impression you'd leave upon your people, especially the kids. Wouldn't be a very healthy society, as if we aren't messed up enough already.


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## nomi007

1 MASOMANA SE SAWAL


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## Paksanity

nomi007 said:


> 1 MASOMANA SE SAWAL



When people do not bother to gain knowledge of the situation they come up with such stuff. Highly misleading and devoid of any insight. Supporting spread of rumours is not going to help our fight. It just causes more harm. Each of these points above can be answered but does it matter to lazy people who do not bother to gain knowledge.

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## Mrc

nomi007 said:


> 1 MASOMANA SE SAWAL




From a prolific anti islam anti pakistan page run by a person of certain religion

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## Roybot

*Rab Nawaz*
Rab Nawaz, son of Sher Dast Khan, a resident of Swat who was born on Jan 16, 1995.





Details of Rab Nawaz. — photo by author
*Muhammad Ishaq*
Muhammad Ishaw, son of Muhammad Sher Ali Khan , a resident of Swat born on Jan 1, 1988.





Details of Muhammad Ishaq— Photo by author
*Siraj Uddin*
Siraj Uddin, son of Lal Mat Khel, a resident of Khyber Agency born on Feb 10, 1984.





Details of Siraj Uddin. — Photo by author




Details of Siraj Uddin. — Photo by author
*Adnan*
Adnan, son of Nazar Band Khan, a resident of Khyber Agency born on Aug 15, 1996.





Details of Adnan, resident of Khyber Agency. — Photo by author
*Ibrahim*
Ibrahim, son of Moheeb Khan, a resident of Khyber Agency born on March 10, 1988.





Details of Ibrahim. — Photo by author

Badaber attack: Five Pakistani 'terrorists' identified - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

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## Mrc

So they came to kill our families.... 

What about their families now? Who is protecting them?

This is beghairiti at the highest level witnessed in human history...

These guys are relying on moral values of same people to protect their own families and honor; whose kids they wanted to kill...

And moral values have been and will be up held caz we are not beghairat....


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## iPhone

MastanKhan said:


> This picture I believe is from iran-----but this is the need of
> 
> View attachment 258612
> the hour---,


No, with due respect, it will not solve the terrorism problem in Pakistan. If we were facing just a rag tag local militia, maybe the public hanging would deter them.

But Ttp is way too hardcore for that. They have full-fledged support of the Afghan and Indian govt. They have comfortable bases in Afghanistan. Afghanistan leader openly call them martyrs. No sir, ttp will not be frighten by public hanging.


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## OTTOMAN

jaibi said:


> That's what I'm trying to tell you. We are in the middle of an LIC and our agents of action are expected to be attacked. That's what happened. It's nothing to do with the nature of the target, as you are taking it.


This is the kind of defeatist mindset shall be discouraged at all level.
Without striking at the ground zero of terror, Pakistanis would continue to suffer.
After APS attack northern alliance aka ANA should have been pulverized, after all they are all foreigners and maniacs.
Soon after next heart land of terror should be struck.. which is obviously 300 miles south of Lahore.
Considering the kind of suiciders, we see involved in terror attacks..., Once their backup is eliminated, they would have hard time earning their living.

On topic... since I have not remarked.... it's disappointing to see relaxed security measures as usual.
How many more attacks do we need before we wakeup to reality?
I thought APS was enough to shake the nation, but apparently it did not triggered any revolution in our approach, towards these routinely and predictive attacks.

I believe, RAW, ANA, CIA must have been laughing their asses out..... with these low cost success.

Aren't we told that all teachers would be carrying guns?
Than why.. why... our brains are so limited to the obvious? Why can't gun be given to every PAF person or families?

So did any alarms triggered at breach of secure perimeter?
I believe there were non in place ! Why not?

Anyhow, i don't want to drag it further... bottom line: time of reinforcing defences has past since loooooong.
Time to officially declare 'WAR' and invoke war rules and procedures. Involve nation, let them feel Pakistan is going through war, only business in country should be war and war, and all other activities must be stopped.
Engage terrorists, defeatist propaganda, address the causes, enforce new laws.

Regarding corruption, no need to run after lengthy investigations or hard core evidence, simply hang the bastards, who stole or misused any amount larger than $100K.. and arrest those involved in smaller corruption.


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## Mrc

What worries me that ttp has evolved this new mechanism by which terrorist cross over probably without weapons .... they gather at a randevous point get weapons and mount attack next day....

As enemy evolves so should we...
This needs a counter... or more attacks will keep happening abd they have to just find a poorly guarded mosque school or college to claim victory...

One way would be to keep a close eye on mobile networks in that area...when ever a new sim is activated or comes on line after few months closure, this should immediately be flagged up


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## Mitro

As compare to the freedom the TTP had before and was able to bleed Pakistan is now very limited and this is the last breath they are taking before they enter hell.
People should remember that they are hired mercenaries and are supported,trained,equipped and provided logistics support from most advance intelligent agency and that too multiple of them .
So there is no need to disheartening take it positive that there time is over and now just focus on the ideological front of this terrorist which can change a deshbhakt to deshdrohi
Unless and until PN or ISI win that battle is not going to finish the job of securing Pakistan from within

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## MastanKhan

persona_non_grata said:


> Hang them yes but publicly no
> You will be surprised by how much the world will talk about the "_human rights_" of these terrorists




Hi,

You have to learn how to market it----. Specially in the U S----American women will favor hangings of the rapists---child molesters and terrorist big time----. And if you have the American women behind your cause---you have America behind your cause----.

Then you can reverse market it in Europe---those countries against it---you can softly target them for supporting terrorism---allowing it to grow unchecked in their countries and then export it to Pakistan and middle east---.

It needs to be done nicely and smoothly in a professional manner.

You need to advertise more how the hangings has dropped the murder rate in the country since the they re-started---how other crimes have dropped---and you need to market it towards the female population. Tell them how you are trying to protect other females, children and families.

Majority of the females in the U S and Europe are fed up with their laws----get them on your side.



krash said:


> More importantly the impression you'd leave upon your people, especially the kids. Wouldn't be a very healthy society, as if we aren't messed up enough already.



Hi,

You are mistaken----kids are not that stupid---. Again you have to market it to them---show them what happened at the public school and how you are going to stop this menace----.

Kids are not some stupid idiots ready for abuse at anyone's whims----they are intelligent small human beings and understand each and everything that is happening around them.

If they see the implementation of the rule of law---creation of order in the society and a massive and ultimate punishment for the crime----that is what will be embedded in their brains when they grow up.

Guess what they are going to do---they will be law abiding citizens and heavy on the criminals----. They are just going to emulate their adults----.

Don't sell the children short.

You guys are so innocent---you have no clue how to build a nation---you guys have no clue how to save your nation even if your life depended on it.

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## Super Falcon

Pak_Track said:


> Tranq and shock guns are, overall, ineffective in firefights. Terrorists are often high on drugs as well, so shock guns won't work on them. Also, you need to be close to deploy a stun gun.
> It's really hard to take in someone alive, who's willing to go down the hardest way possible.


It is hard not impossible

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## Mrc

about that eurocopter fennec that made a hard landing, its very difficult with an ak 47 to hit the tail segment of a moving heli.with any reasonable accuracy ... any one who have fired an ak can tell with that riffle its nearly an impossible shot especially from a reasonable distance.....
either a very lucky shot or sots actually did not bring the heli down, technical issues did......


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## Pak_Track

Super Falcon said:


> It is hard not impossible


Would you risk your life to do it?


----------



## Counterpunch

Mrc said:


> What worries me that ttp has evolved this new mechanism by which terrorist cross over probably without weapons .... they gather at a randevous point get weapons and mount attack next day....
> 
> As enemy evolves so should we...
> This needs a counter... or more attacks will keep happening abd they have to just find a poorly guarded mosque school or college to claim victory...
> 
> One way would be to keep a close eye on mobile networks in that area...when ever a new sim is activated or comes on line after few months closure, this should immediately be flagged up



This is not a new tactic. This has been in vogue all over the world and for quite some time now. Only stronger intelligence and very stronger punishments can result in reduction of such incidents as most of the times it is the unsuspected individual/vehicle that provides such service!

There has been numerous occasions when diplomatic vehicles were stopped and weapons were recovered from them. Who knows the number of times when such vehicles went past the police and dropped off the package at the designated spot only to be picked up by the miscreants later on who came unnoticed past the security check points



Mrc said:


> about that eurocopter fennec that made a hard landing, its very difficult with an ak 47 to hit the tail segment of a moving heli.with any reasonable accuracy ... any one who have fired an ak can tell with that riffle its nearly an impossible shot especially from a reasonable distance.....
> either a very lucky shot or sots actually did not bring the heli down, technical issues did......


The heli was brought down due to technical issues. The place where it was landing and the place from where it approached the landing zone was quite far away from the area of operation.

However, people in the know of things can confirm if there were any gun shot marks on the chopper coming from lucky shots as you mentioned. From 5-6 angles I saw, I couldn't pick out any gun shot mark though.

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## jaibi

It's alright, bro!


Shamain said:


> Bro i didnt insult anyone or his nationaility.
> 
> U can see these posts. We cud be wrong but were pointing out only.
> 
> Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed. | Page 56
> 
> Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed. | Page 56
> 
> And this is my post he was quoting and complaining before u..
> 
> Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed. | Page 57



I'm a part of the effort in this war. What are you? Concerned citizen?

Such brash thinking solves no problems. In fact it was brash thinking that enabled this conflict to rise up. Had we been sane a few decades ago we wouldn't have had to deal with this blowback. 

All personnel carry guns: when the attack was happening officers boarded their families and sat up with their arms. You have little information and are pompous enough to believe your own immaturity. This is not how conflicts are resolved, not how wars are won. This is not a 20th century war, it is a new form of conflict. A state is fighting against anarchy and we are the only kind to do so. This incident was not a loss, it was a victory. The civilian population, like yourself, are too self absorbed to realise what we are fighting and how we're fighting it. You won't have the courage to read up and probably wouldn't switch anywhere else than the sensationalist media. Restricted minds produce restricted visions. Read up and analyze before you speak. 


OTTOMAN said:


> This is the kind of defeatist mindset shall be discouraged at all level.
> Without striking at the ground zero of terror, Pakistanis would continue to suffer.
> After APS attack northern alliance aka ANA should have been pulverized, after all they are all foreigners and maniacs.
> Soon after next heart land of terror should be struck.. which is obviously 300 miles south of Lahore.
> Considering the kind of suiciders, we see involved in terror attacks..., Once their backup is eliminated, they would have hard time earning their living.
> 
> On topic... since I have not remarked.... it's disappointing to see relaxed security measures as usual.
> How many more attacks do we need before we wakeup to reality?
> I thought APS was enough to shake the nation, but apparently it did not triggered any revolution in our approach, towards these routinely and predictive attacks.
> 
> I believe, RAW, ANA, CIA must have been laughing their asses out..... with these low cost success.
> 
> Aren't we told that all teachers would be carrying guns?
> Than why.. why... our brains are so limited to the obvious? Why can't gun be given to every PAF person or families?
> 
> So did any alarms triggered at breach of secure perimeter?
> I believe there were non in place ! Why not?
> 
> Anyhow, i don't want to drag it further... bottom line: time of reinforcing defences has past since loooooong.
> Time to officially declare 'WAR' and invoke war rules and procedures. Involve nation, let them feel Pakistan is going through war, only business in country should be war and war, and all other activities must be stopped.
> Engage terrorists, defeatist propaganda, address the causes, enforce new laws.
> 
> Regarding corruption, no need to run after lengthy investigations or hard core evidence, simply hang the bastards, who stole or misused any amount larger than $100K.. and arrest those involved in smaller corruption.



Tou, beta, kuch perh kar aye ap.


DV RULES said:


> come with logical arguments. Paheliya Guess karney ka time nahi he mere pass.


----------



## jaibi

Thanks for your advice, unneeded but I appreciate your intentions. Secondly, it's called psychological problem, if you're trying to insult me, and that too in my field, please do so in the correct jargon. Thirdly, every person here has done something or the other for Pakistan's war but your opinions do not reflect an experienced and therefore an appreciablely realistic perspective. Fourthly, if you're into a measuring contest or a mud slinging one you'd find me poor play because I've much productive things to do than to satiate a mere keyboard warrior's impotent ego. I've noticed you here, I know what your caliber is, enjoy your stay here. 
Aur, beta, ehsan tum par nahi hai. 


DV RULES said:


> *Agar kuch kar hi liya he to kisi per Ehsan nahi kiya*, Kam as kam itni to samajh honi chahiye.
> You are sitting behind the keypad and assuming others out of knowledge itself a serious psycho problem.
> You even don't how serious part i have played in this war in favor of Pakistan.
> Advice to you.....decrease your superiority complex. *Uncle*

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## krash

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You are mistaken----kids are not that stupid---. Again you have to market it to them---show them what happened at the public school and how you are going to stop this menace----.
> 
> Kids are not some stupid idiots ready for abuse at anyone's whims----they are intelligent small human beings and understand each and everything that is happening around them.
> 
> If they see the implementation of the rule of law---creation of order in the society and a massive and ultimate punishment for the crime----that is what will be embedded in their brains when they grow up.
> 
> Guess what they are going to do---they will be law abiding citizens and heavy on the criminals----. They are just going to emulate their adults----.
> 
> Don't sell the children short.
> 
> You guys are so innocent---you have no clue how to build a nation---you guys have no clue how to save your nation even if your life depended on it.



As hopeful as our theories may be, the reality on the other hand has countless times been demonstrated. Public executions serve nothing more than quenching the blood-thirst of an emotion-driven people. From demands of going to war against the US for the sake of our Afghan "brothers" to denying the true nature of the terrorist scum because they were "muslims" (ironically, both whom we now want to execute in public), we have been ruled by emotions and delivered to our own detriment. Further irony unfolds when the enemy we are fighting is just that exactly because it is ruled just as well by the same force pushing them to the extent of committing unimaginably inhumane acts.

You are, pleasantly, naive enough to place your trust in the maturity of the ever impressionable children of a people who's *educated* adults are stupid enough to still be mushed into supporting draconian laws, such as the Hadood Ordinance and the Anti-Blasphemy law. The ones who's whimsical minds thought it fit to go rampaging through their own cities for a cartoon that was published on the other side of the planet. The ones who tore down sacred places of worship of their own countrymen after they saw the Babri Mosque fall. The idea itself, at least in the specific case of Pakistan, is laughable.

Watching people being executed publicly will leave another thing embedded in the minds of those young children and thus in-return the whole of society; common place of death. Our country and people have already seen enough death. Enough that now you only see people mentioning a suicide blast in passing, if at all. I on the other hand would want our future generations to be completely oblivious of it. Where the scenes of blood and dead flesh are completely alien and limited to only the movies. Where the memories of these times are only read in books but lessons never forgotten. I do not digress, this has a point. Once you start publicly executing people the punishment will hold its psychological effect for a time and then it will evaporate. The people will normalise to it and get desensitized from it, which no one needs to be explained as to why is bad (ironically again, the enemy itself is a very good example of the effects of this). This has happened in various regions of the world and countless papers have been written on it.

On the other side if we take your argument solely on the bases of deterring mischief through fear then the best case study again is in our own backyard. You think the Taliban haven't seen how the army is cutting them down? Did these terrorist actually believe they were all going to come out of Badaber alive? You mean to deter those people by threat of death who willingly go blow themselves up in innocent crowds? It's an oxymoron.

A child's mind is a blank slate, intelligent but not wise. It feeds off its surroundings until it assimilates and amalgamates into them. Don't oversell them. This is why you see the children of TTP scum with big sparkly smiles while sawing through the throats of alive men, but on the other hand a kid living in Lahore, Karachi or Islamabad gets squeamish at the very smell of raw meat. This is a war of ideologies less than it is a war of blood. The Taliban are an indirect result of our societal dysfunctionalities while the common people killing minorities for mere words is a direct result. If you want to save your coming generations you need to disassociate your society from anything and everything that is Taliban-ish. The moment you become that which you fight, you have lost. And we were already half way there before the TTP even existed.

Apparently everyone of you knows how to build nations, wonder why then after doing the same thing for more than half a century we have absolutely nothing to show for ourselves accept undeserved pomp and unwarranted arrogance. I on the other hand have no clue how to do it so I read, a lot, on the people who have actually done it. Nations are not built or sustained on emotions, knee-jerk reactions or fear. They are built on civility. We currently have numerous examples of "built nations" in the world of which *none *think in this manner. There is tonnes of material out their recording how the various societies of the world rose from dirt and are sustaining themselves there. Even more on the ones who still rub their noses in it. No prize for guessing which blueprint you are advocating and we are following. Read what Jinnah and Iqbal have written and said over and over again. But why would we listen to them? We already know what to do, don't we


----------



## DV RULES

jaibi said:


> Thanks for your advice, unneeded but I appreciate your intentions. Secondly, it's called psychological problem, if you're trying to insult me, and that too in my field, please do so in the correct jargon. Thirdly, every person here has done something or the other for Pakistan's war but your opinions do not reflect an experienced and therefore an appreciablely realistic perspective. Fourthly, if you're into a measuring contest or a mud slinging one you'd find me poor play because I've much productive things to do than to satiate a mere keyboard warrior's impotent ego. I've noticed you here, I know what your caliber is, enjoy your stay here.
> Aur, beta, ehsan tum par nahi hai.



My opinions are my opinion far realistic and practical.
Better keep your realistic jingoism, it worth nothing in operational grounds.
I didn't need you certification as there is just immaturity in your mind like impotent who just degrading other members through words. Do sth and then come to talk, dear infant.
And yes, take admission where teach manners to person like you.

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## MastanKhan

krash said:


> As hopeful as our theories may be, the reality on the other hand has countless times been demonstrated. Public executions serve nothing more than quenching the blood-thirst of an emotion-driven people. From demands of going to war against the US for the sake of our Afghan "brothers" to denying the true nature of the terrorist scum because they were "muslims" (ironically, both whom we now want to execute in public), we have been ruled by emotions and delivered to our own detriment. Further irony unfolds when the enemy we are fighting is just that exactly because it is ruled just as well by the same force pushing them to the extent of committing unimaginably inhumane acts.
> 
> You are, pleasantly, naive enough to place your trust in the maturity of the ever impressionable children of a people who's *educated* adults are stupid enough to still be mushed into supporting draconian laws, such as the Hadood Ordinance and the Anti-Blasphemy law. The ones who's whimsical minds thought it fit to go rampaging through their own cities for a cartoon that was published on the other side of the planet. The ones who tore down sacred places of worship of their own countrymen after they saw the Babri Mosque fall. The idea itself, at least in the specific case of Pakistan, is laughable.
> 
> Watching people being executed publicly will leave another thing embedded in the minds of those young children and thus in-return the whole of society; common place of death. Our country and people have already seen enough death. Enough that now you only see people mentioning a suicide blast in passing, if at all. I on the other hand would want our future generations to be completely oblivious of it. Where the scenes of blood and dead flesh are completely alien and limited to only the movies. Where the memories of these times are only read in books but lessons never forgotten. I do not digress, this has a point. Once you start publicly executing people the punishment will hold its psychological effect for a time and then it will evaporate. The people will normalise to it and get desensitized from it, which no one needs to be explained as to why is bad (ironically again, the enemy itself is a very good example of the effects of this). This has happened in various regions of the world and countless papers have been written on it.
> 
> On the other side if we take your argument solely on the bases of deterring mischief through fear then the best case study again is in our own backyard. You think the Taliban haven't seen how the army is cutting them down? Did these terrorist actually believe they were all going to come out of Badaber alive? You mean to deter those people by threat of death who willingly go blow themselves up in innocent crowds? It's an oxymoron.
> 
> A child's mind is a blank slate, intelligent but not wise. It feeds off its surroundings until it assimilates and amalgamates into them. Don't oversell them. This is why you see the children of TTP scum with big sparkly smiles while sawing through the throats of alive men, but on the other hand a kid living in Lahore, Karachi or Islamabad gets squeamish at the very smell of raw meat. This is a war of ideologies less than it is a war of blood. The Taliban are an indirect result of our societal dysfunctionalities while the common people killing minorities for mere words is a direct result. If you want to save your coming generations you need to disassociate your society from anything and everything that is Taliban-ish. The moment you become that which you fight, you have lost. And we were already half way there before the TTP even existed.
> 
> Apparently everyone of you knows how to build nations, wonder why then after doing the same thing for more than half a century we have absolutely nothing to show for ourselves accept undeserved pomp and unwarranted arrogance. I on the other hand have no clue how to do it so I read, a lot, on the people who have actually done it. Nations are not built or sustained on emotions, knee-jerk reactions or fear. They are built on civility. We currently have numerous examples of "built nations" in the world of which *none *think in this manner. There is tonnes of material out their recording how the various societies of the world rose from dirt and are sustaining themselves there. Even more on the ones who still rub their noses in it. No prize for guessing which blueprint you are advocating and we are following. Read what Jinnah and Iqbal have written and said over and over again. But why would we listen to them? We already know what to do, don't we



Hi,

What a plethora of sob story----the proof is in the pudding---. Since the start f re-hangings----the murder rate has dropped down by 70% from same time last year----kidnappings for ransom---by close to 90 %---Dacoities---around 80%---.

These are the numbers published by the state----search them. A child's mind is not a blank area----just because they are small---does not mean that they are imbeciles or idiots----.

They are as kind on a give day and as vicious as can be within their means and sometimes beyond their means----.

The funny thing s that the Mullah in the Madrassah does not have any problem teaching the kid to kill---and the 5-8 years old happily utters the urge to sacrifice and kill----then the law abiding 5-8 years old can be made to understand the justification of execution.

And here we are afraid of showing our kids what justice system and crime and punishment looks like.

Order and the rule of law----this an inherent part of our genetic makeup---it is the lack of direction that cause s issues and not the viewing of the hangings---.

That gives power and strength to the children so that they are not afraid---and know that the rule of law will protect them---and when they grow up----the follow the guidelines and be good citizens.

Successful nations are built on ruthless and brutal justice system----. My young brother---you seem to come from a different GALAXY.

Let us take an example of UK----the brutality of this nation against the criminals was shocking and eye popping---. Hands being cut off for stealing----properties confiscated for minor crimes---families shipped in prison ships and sent over seas----half of them died while on the way---.

How about the justice system in the USA when it was establishing---ruthless and brutal---even to this day---some states have 25--30 years punishment for stealing----and in the past 150 + years ago---hanging and executions were rampant---how about France----we all know the guillotine----and Netherlands and Belgium---one nation more brutal against the other.

Now as these nations are established---we call them civilized----because the term civilized was hammered their fore fathers by the brutal use of force and order---and now you see their lilly white ar-ses telling the world how civilized that they are.

Successful nations are built o the dead bodies of the criminals who have met their maker at the end of the hangman's noose.

Just increase the intensity by 10 times and just see the results----.

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## Mrc

I am against public hanging a method devised by brits

Keeping in view our islamic roots shoot the basta*ds in head publically.. ( rifle replaces sword as tanks have replaced horses)


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## krash

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> What a plethora of sob story----the proof is in the pudding---. Since the start f re-hangings----the murder rate has dropped down by 70% from same time last year----kidnappings for ransom---by close to 90 %---Dacoities---around 80%---.
> 
> These are the numbers published by the state----search them. A child's mind is not a blank area----just because they are small---does not mean that they are imbeciles or idiots----.
> 
> They are as kind on a give day and as vicious as can be within their means and sometimes beyond their means----.
> 
> The funny thing s that the Mullah in the Madrassah does not have any problem teaching the kid to kill---and the 5-8 years old happily utters the urge to sacrifice and kill----then the law abiding 5-8 years old can be made to understand the justification of execution.
> 
> And here we are afraid of showing our kids what justice system and crime and punishment looks like.
> 
> Order and the rule of law----this an inherent part of our genetic makeup---it is the lack of direction that cause s issues and not the viewing of the hangings---.
> 
> That gives power and strength to the children so that they are not afraid---and know that the rule of law will protect them---and when they grow up----the follow the guidelines and be good citizens.
> 
> Successful nations are built on ruthless and brutal justice system----. My young brother---you seem to come from a different GALAXY.
> 
> Let us take an example of UK----the brutality of this nation against the criminals was shocking and eye popping---. Hands being cut off for stealing----properties confiscated for minor crimes---families shipped in prison ships and sent over seas----half of them died while on the way---.
> 
> How about the justice system in the USA when it was establishing---ruthless and brutal---even to this day---some states have 25--30 years punishment for stealing----and in the past 150 + years ago---hanging and executions were rampant---how about France----we all know the guillotine----and Netherlands and Belgium---one nation more brutal against the other.
> 
> Now as these nations are established---we call them civilized----because the term civilized was hammered their fore fathers by the brutal use of force and order---and now you see their lilly white ar-ses telling the world how civilized that they are.
> 
> Successful nations are built o the dead bodies of the criminals who have met their maker at the end of the hangman's noose.
> 
> Just increase the intensity by 10 times and just see the results----.



Sob stories? These are actual events which are ripping apart the already disintegrating fabric of the Pakistani society. It is this attitude which has brought us here. Apathy; first trait of a crumbling society. Learning from mistakes is a whole other matter.

For the rest, either I didn't repeat it enough or you didn't read it through. I am not against capital-punishment, I condone it (for a good very many reasons). I am against *public* executions, as advised by you. Kindly respond with that in mind.

Law is always blind and ruthless, there is no other form of law. Yet it is still administered with civility because its very function is to create civil order not disorder. When barbarism takes hold on legal proceedings you get the verdicts handed out in the tribal jirgas. I don't know what in my post you took as advocating for a limp legal system.

ps: The French guillotines actually counter your argument. The French revolution is vividly remembered for its complete loss of morality and atrocities (not justice) where mobs of emotionally driven French peasantry slaughtered thousands of innocents along with the criminals. There were dead newborns floating in the gutters of Paris in those days....not to mention the fact that the revolution failed in immediate effect. If that is what you want and call law then you and I indeed are from different galaxies.

This romanticism with bloody revolutions and wars is another side-effect of being ruled by emotions and not sense.

pps: the psychological effects of young minds being exposed/accustomed to grotesque events, images, acts are well documented. I will stop debating on hearsay arguments.


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## SQ8

DV RULES said:


> My opinions are my opinion far realistic and practical.
> Better keep your realistic jingoism, it worth nothing in operational grounds.
> I didn't need you certification as there is just immaturity in your mind like impotent who just degrading other members through words. Do sth and then come to talk, dear infant.
> And yes, take admission where teach manners to person like you.


They are mostly delusional and pithy. I think you need to be restricted to the stupid and funny for a while before you learn to debate without your false bravado and sanctimonious attitude. And that has been done for this week. 
And dont for a second assume that your supposed seniority by posting more trash than others makes you immune to anything. 

All your opinion, or that of anyone on this forum is worth only the 101010110111 that it represents. Which means that we don't know and don't care whether you are the agent that stopped Baitullah or some 23 year old with a useless degree and no future in his life. Your post content defines you. So far, you haven't given anything positive to weigh it in against. 

Take your time off, and decide if you wish to continue to debate properly or join the long list of yappers in oblivion.



DV RULES said:


> My opinions are my opinion far realistic and practical.
> Better keep your realistic jingoism, it worth nothing in operational grounds.
> I didn't need you certification as there is just immaturity in your mind like impotent who just degrading other members through words. Do sth and then come to talk, dear infant.
> And yes, take admission where teach manners to person like you.


They are mostly delusional and pithy. I think you need to be restricted to the stupid and funny for a while before you learn to debate without your false bravado and sanctimonious attitude. And that has been done for this week. 
And dont for a second assume that your supposed seniority by posting more trash than others makes you immune to anything. 

All your opinion, or that of anyone on this forum is worth only the 101010110111 that it represents. Which means that we don't know and don't care whether you are the agent that stopped Baitullah or some 23 year old with a useless degree and no future in his life. Your post content defines you. So far, you haven't given anything positive to weigh it in against. 

Take your time off, and decide if you wish to continue to debate properly or join the long list of yappers in oblivion.

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## DV RULES

Oscar said:


> They are mostly delusional and pithy. I think you need to be restricted to the stupid and funny for a while before you learn to debate without your false bravado and sanctimonious attitude. And that has been done for this week.
> And dont for a second assume that your supposed seniority by posting more trash than others makes you immune to anything.
> 
> All your opinion, or that of anyone on this forum is worth only the 101010110111 that it represents. Which means that we don't know and don't care whether you are the agent that stopped Baitullah or some 23 year old with a useless degree and no future in his life. Your post content defines you. So far, you haven't given anything positive to weigh it in against.
> 
> Take your time off, and decide if you wish to continue to debate properly or join the long list of yappers in oblivion.



Say whatever in your emotional jerks, these are your words and you have right to say. By my part i have right whatever i will contribute in reasonable & practical meanings, i don't need someone's certification. And i don't care.

here is the difference when i criticized your move in private section and you are spewing your venom in general thread. Enough evidences to guess the attitude. 
I opposed and am opposing and will oppose senseless moves of management in positive way.

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## Salik

Sino Dragon said:


> Today is the 3rd day. Hope will see something.



Was talking about heat wave in Karachi, to end in 3 days. Ask if its correct.


On Topic: We have already won this war. There were after shocks, this one was last of them.

From now on there won't be any attack on Pakistani soil. Its celebration time.


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## Paksanity

Salik said:


> We have already won this war.



Far from it. We are on top though. War can not be won and WILL not be won until conditions that breed this menace are eliminated. Fundamental changes to our education system, political system, judicial system, policing and societal attitudes have to take place before we declare victory.


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## Salik

Paksanity said:


> Far from it. We are on top though. War can not be won and WILL not be won until conditions that breed this menace are eliminated. Fundamental changes to our education system, political system, judicial system, policing and societal attitudes have to take place before we declare victory.



Are there no crimes in developed countries or they don't have prisons. Or look around does only Pakistan need educational, political, judicial and social reforms. This particular menace was own of its kind, over now.

We will fix a date and celebrate annually, victory of truth and peace over false and terror.

Our forces played major role in it and proved their determination. Everyone else took part in it and made it a collective effort. 

That makes it a national day of celebrations.


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## I.R.A

Salik said:


> Are there no crimes in developed countries or they don't have prisons. Or look around does only Pakistan need educational, political, judicial and social reforms. This particular menace was own of its kind, over now.
> 
> We will fix a date and celebrate annually, victory of truth and peace over false and terror.
> 
> Our forces played major role in it and proved their determination. Everyone else took part in it and made it a collective effort.
> 
> That makes it a national day of celebrations.



Radio and company are still alive and walking this earth, what victory? what celebrations?

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## Salik

Color_Less_Sky said:


> Radio and company are still alive and walking this earth, what victory? what celebrations?



Lots of fused radios are walking around us here and there, does it matter. His death will not be even announced on radio. Chill now.


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## I.R.A

Salik said:


> Lots of fused radios are walking around us here and there, does it matter. His death will not be even announced on radio. Chill now.



Yeah sure an idiot can enjoy and remain at comfort when his own house is on fire.


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## Salik

Color_Less_Sky said:


> Yeah sure an idiot can enjoy and remain at comfort when his own house is on fire.



Sir i have told you. Howmuch time you want six months, one year. After that there'll be fire work in the sky.


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## I.R.A

Salik said:


> Sir i have told you. Howmuch time you want six months, one year. After that there'll be fire work in the sky.



Sir if these six months or one year can bring back 50,000 Pakistanis, many innocent children, thousands of brave soldiers by all means please do celebrate and have all the fire works. But for me unless I see the Radio & co hanged in APS there is no victory and justice.

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## batmannow

Color_Less_Sky said:


> Sir if these six months or one year can bring back 50,000 Pakistanis, many innocent children, thousands of brave soldiers by all means please do celebrate and have all the fire works. But for me unless I see the Radio & co hanged in APS there is no victory and justice.


There is & there was only one solution , which is find the targets within , Afghanistan verify them & attack with full power of air force & special forces anything less then that will , hit us harder then each time we , get a hit ?

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## I.R.A

batmannow said:


> There is & there was only one solution , which is find the targets within , Afghanistan verify them & attack with full power of air force & special forces anything less then that will , hit us harder then each time we , get a hit ?



If it was up to me I will make adopt tactics to rot them from inside, make them kill themselves. Use their tactics on them, if they are dirty I will become more dirtier than them, if they are terrorists I will become barbarian. May be that is the reason I am not in position to make these decision, hope people who are making decisions regarding our relations with Afghanistan do take into account diminishing patience and declining morale of mango Pakistanis.

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## Informant

Sino Dragon said:


> Today is the 3rd day. Hope will see something.



Is in effect as we speak.


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## batmannow

Color_Less_Sky said:


> If it was up to me I will make adopt tactics to rot them from inside, make them kill themselves. Use their tactics on them, if they are dirty I will become more dirtier than them, if they are terrorists I will become barbarian. May be that is the reason I am not in position to make these decision, hope people who are making decisions regarding our relations with Afghanistan do take into account diminishing patience and declining morale of mango Pakistanis.


I think I have stated many times just bring them to me , I will host a live show to teach the peoples how to eat human barbeque ?
But that is just uncontrolled anger of us ?right !
I think we need to plan , & execute well targeted hits against them deep inside afghan land ?
That is the best ,we can logicly do ?

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## Salik

Color_Less_Sky said:


> Sir if these six months or one year can bring back 50,000 Pakistanis, many innocent children, thousands of brave soldiers by all means please do celebrate and have all the fire works. But for me unless I see the Radio & co hanged in APS there is no victory and justice.



Our celebrations are tribute to all the martyrs fact that we can't bring them back but they've made us live and prosper.

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## batmannow

Salik said:


> Our celebrations are tribute to all the martyrs fact that we can't bring them back but they've made us live and prosper.


& we won't let the dogs bite us again ?


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## Arsalan

Salik said:


> Was talking about heat wave in Karachi, to end in 3 days. Ask if its correct.
> 
> 
> On Topic: We have already won this war. There were after shocks, this one was last of them.
> 
> From now on there won't be any attack on Pakistani soil. Its celebration time.


I am glad that our army and leadership do not thinks like it. The war is far from over. It is just the first phase we are involved in, we wont be able to win it unless the job is completed and i would say this is first phase of a three phase job. We need to kill the hard liners, destroy there infrastructures, camps and support bases. Once that is done effectively, we need to curb the local support, that need to be done by government. Provide that region with the basic necessities of life,build infrastructure, tell them about the thing you call education. Provide basic facilities to those men so they can feel that they are part of the nation and that they cannot be brain washed and miss guided to support an future group of terrorists in name of religion or something else. Provide them with equal opportunities so that 10 lakhs for blowing themselves up to support their families in not a lucrative option anymore, not the only lucrative option anymore. Then we need to act on a diplomatic front, tell the world our story, inform them we are the victims and not the culprits and restore the lost image. Only that will help bring in the support that will be required for the phase two of rebuilding the infrastructure.

This is just a brief overview friends, we have discussed the details many times. DO NOT THINK THAT IT IS OVER, there is a long journey, a long fight and we will win it if we all fight it together, on all fronts.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> I am glad that our army and leadership do not thinks like it. The war is far from over. It is just the first phase we are involved in, we wont be able to win it unless the job is completed and i would say this is first phase of a three phase job. We need to kill the hard liners, destroy there infrastructures, camps and support bases. Once that is done effectively, we need to curb the local support, that need to be done by government. Provide that region with the basic necessities of life,build infrastructure, tell them about the thing you call education. Provide basic facilities to those men so they can feel that they are part of the nation and that they cannot be brain washed and miss guided to support an future group of terrorists in name of religion or something else. Provide them with equal opportunities so that 10 lakhs for blowing themselves up to support their families in not a lucrative option anymore, not the only lucrative option anymore. Then we need to act on a diplomatic front, tell the world our story, inform them we are the victims and not the culprits and restore the lost image. Only that will help bring in the support that will be required for the phase two of rebuilding the infrastructure.
> 
> This is just a brief overview friends, we have discussed the details many times. DO NOT THINK THAT IT IS OVER, there is a long journey, a long fight and we will win it if we all fight it together, on all fronts.



Perfectly said and summed up, beyond killing the enemy the steps to kill the thoughts and motivation of becoming one.

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## Usama_Qayyum93

Salute captain Asfandyar


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

*Exclusive:

Captain Isfandyar Shaheed:







Junior Technician Tariq Abbas Shaheed: 






Beautiful Faces, Wanted to kiss their foreheads. May their souls rest in Peace.

Shaheed Ke Jo Mout Hai ... Wo Qoum Ke Hayat Hai ... Insha'Allah *


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## Salik

Arsalan said:


> I am glad that our army and leadership do not thinks like it. The war is far from over. It is just the first phase we are involved in, we wont be able to win it unless the job is completed and i would say this is first phase of a three phase job. We need to kill the hard liners, destroy there infrastructures, camps and support bases. Once that is done effectively, we need to curb the local support, that need to be done by government. Provide that region with the basic necessities of life,build infrastructure, tell them about the thing you call education. Provide basic facilities to those men so they can feel that they are part of the nation and that they cannot be brain washed and miss guided to support an future group of terrorists in name of religion or something else. Provide them with equal opportunities so that 10 lakhs for blowing themselves up to support their families in not a lucrative option anymore, not the only lucrative option anymore. Then we need to act on a diplomatic front, tell the world our story, inform them we are the victims and not the culprits and restore the lost image. Only that will help bring in the support that will be required for the phase two of rebuilding the infrastructure.
> 
> This is just a brief overview friends, we have discussed the details many times. DO NOT THINK THAT IT IS OVER, there is a long journey, a long fight and we will win it if we all fight it together, on all fronts.



Your points are need of the hour sir and work on them will continue to address terrorism and overall social upgradation. But i have given my time, next 12 months no terror attacks. Victory declared and day of celebration.


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## I.R.A

Salik said:


> Your points are need of the hour sir and work on them will continue to address terrorism and overall social upgradation. But i have given my time, next 12 months no terror attacks. Victory declared and day of celebration.



And what after 12 months?


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## Salik

Color_Less_Sky said:


> And what after 12 months?



I've said today its over. 12 months are for you sir to believe its over. Hope this period is enough.


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## Solomon2

Arsalan said:


> ...tell them about the thing you call education. Provide basic facilities to those men so they can feel that they are part of the nation and that they cannot be brain washed and miss guided to support an future group of terrorists in name of religion or something else.


They are supposed to fight for nothing and just let others who _are_ willing to fight push them around? Do you see the contradiction in what you're advocating here?


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## Neutron

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you have done SH-IT for this board and become the CHAIRPERSON OF THINK TANK---then why can't he say what he wants to say on the subject---.
> 
> And also---act as an officer of the air force that you claim to be---- Don't call people your age as " beta "----.
> 
> It was not the brash thinking that made the conflict to raise up----it was sitting on their ar-ses and doing half ar-sed jobs that made the conflict raise up.
> 
> *30 air force personal dead and that is claimed as a victory----what a shame and how disgusting---. Every attack on an air force base is now a success and the air force is bragging without shame.*
> 
> Well actually it is not---when third rate people can become the Think Tank Leaders and these same third rate leaders now become serving officers----what is one going to expect----THIRD RATE DEC ISIONS.



Terrorism is worst form of evil. They are killing innocent people. They are killing our kids and civilians men and women. It is not a matter of victory or defeat. It is matter of GOOD and BAD. It is a war between right and wrong. At the end of day my question to you with whom you are standing today? Is capt safder and his team those sacrificed their today for our tomorrow or someone else?

30 Air force personal are dead ....and your choice of words...... As if you are accusing the families of victims.....

In your opinion every act of terrorism on air force base is now a success........ No sir. ..... i cannot consider any act of terrorism anywhere in the world as success........It is defeat of humanity, ethics and morality. It is not a defeat of Air force ....it is defeat of human race against universal evil. But at the same time we do have heroes like capt safder .....it is real victory of humanity.


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## MastanKhan

Neutron said:


> Terrorism is worst form of evil. They are killing innocent people. They are killing our kids and civilians men and women. It is not a matter of victory or defeat. It is matter of GOOD and BAD. It is a war between right and wrong. At the end of day my question to you with whom you are standing today? Is capt safder and his team those sacrificed their today for our tomorrow or someone else?
> 
> 30 Air force personal are dead ....and your choice of words...... As if you are accusing the families of victims.....
> 
> In your opinion every act of terrorism on air force base is now a success........ No sir. ..... i cannot consider any act of terrorism anywhere in the world as success........It is defeat of humanity, ethics and morality. It is not a defeat of Air force ....it is defeat of human race against universal evil. But at the same time we do have heroes like capt safder .....it is real victory of humanity.



God Almighty,

How does the level of stupidity ascend---it is amazing---. Where did I say that the families of the dead are to be blamed---.

Kid because you are so thoughtless to understand the issue is that the likes of you have this problem---. Till yesterday after 9 / 11---the terrorists were your muslims / Islamic brothers and they could do no wrong----and you fed them and cherished them and said that " muslims do not do these things " " Islam does not allow these things " " someone else is doing these things ".

The terrorists did not fail in their attack on the Badaber base---they succeeded---they killed 29 military personal----so where is the failure in their attack.

You last paragraph about humanity is utter stupidity of the worst level----you are a nobody to have any consideration when 29 soldiers lie dead at the hands of the terrorists-----failure of humanity----my ar-se----.

Like of you seek perverse pleasure in talking about the sacrifices of the young warriors and claim them to be heroes----and that gets you ecstatic----.

If 29 soldiers dead is a success in preventing an attack on the base----then I wonder what a failure would account to.

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## Neutron

MastanKhan said:


> God Almighty,
> 
> How does the level of stupidity ascend---it is amazing---. Where did I say that the families of the dead are to be blamed---.






MastanKhan said:


> *Kid because you are so thoughtless to understand the issue is that the likes of you have this problem---. Till yesterday after 9 / 11---the terrorists were your muslims / Islamic brothers and they could do no wrong----and you fed them and cherished them and said that " muslims do not do these things " " Islam does not allow these things " " someone else is doing these things "*.



It is not our debate today however i will like to know your perspective.....as a guidance for kid..... i think 9/11 as inside job 

*1)* Nano Thermite was found in the dust at Ground Zero. Peer reviewed in the Bentham Open Chemical Physics Journal. ‘Niels Harrit’, ‘Thermite Bentham’, “The great thermate debate” Jon Cole, ‘Iron rich spheres’ Steven Jones, ‘Limited Metallurgical Examination (FEMA C-13, Appendix C-6)’. ‘Nano Tubes’

*2)* 1700+ Engineers and Architects support a real independent 9/11 investigation. Richard Gage, Founder. ‘Explosive Evidence’, ‘Blueprint for Truth’, ‘AE911′, ‘Toronto Hearings’, ‘Kevin Ryan’.

*3)* The total collapse of WTC 7 in 6.5 seconds at free fall acceleration (NIST admits 2.25 seconds). Larry Silverstein used the term “Pull it”. Steel framed high rise buildings have NEVER totally collapsed from fire or structural damage. Builidng 7 was not hit by a plane. ‘Building 7′, ‘WTC 7′.

*4)* Dick Cheney was in command of NORAD on 9/11 while running war games. ‘Stand down order’. “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary?”. Norman Minetta testimony. “Gave order to shootdown Flight 93.”, ‘NORAD Drills’.

*5)* 6 out of the 10 Commissioners believe the 9/11 Commission report was “Setup to fail” Co-Chairs Hamilton and Kean, “It was a 30 year conspiracy”, “The whitehouse has played cover up”, ‘Max Cleland resigned’, ‘John Farmer’.

*6)* FBI confiscated 84/85 Videos from the Pentagon. ‘Moussaoui trial’ revealed these videos. Released Pentagon Security Camera (FOIA) does not show a 757 and is clearly missing a frame. ‘Sheraton Hotel’, “Double tree’, ‘Citgo”.

*7)* Osama Bin Laden was NOT wanted by the FBI for the 9/11 attacks. “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” CIA created, trained and funded “Al Qaeda/Taliban” during the Mujahideen. OBL was a CIA asset named ‘Tim Osman’. OBL Reported dead in Dec 2001 (FOX).

*8)* 100′s of Firefighters and witness testimony to BOMBS/EXPLOSIONS ignored by the 9/11 Commission Report. 9/11 Commission Report bars 503 1st responder eyewitnesses. “Explosions in the lobby and sub levels”, ‘Firefighter explosions’, ‘Barry Jennings’, ‘William Rodriguez’.

*9)* 100′s of firefighters and witness testimony to MOLTEN METAL ignored by the Commission report. “Like you’re in a foundry”, “NIST’s John Gross denies the existence of Molten Metal”, ‘Swiss Cheese’, “As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running.” Leslie Robertson’.

*10)* ’5 Dancing Israeli’s’ arrested in ‘Mossad Truck Bombs’ on 9/11 that stated “We were there to document the event.” ‘Urban Moving Systems’ front company, ‘Dominic Suter’. “$498,750 Business loan (June 2001)”. “Officer DeCarlo’, ‘Art Students’, ‘Israeli Spying’.

*11)* On September 10th, 2001. Rumsfeld reported $2.3 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon. ‘Dov Zakheim’ Pentagon Comptroller. Former VP of ‘Systems Planning Corporation’ (Flight Termination System). Signatore of PNAC document.

*12)* 220+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials question the official story. ’9/11 Whistleblowers’, ‘Patriots for 9/11′. ‘Robert Bowman’, ‘Sibel Edmonds’, ‘Albert Stubblebine’, ‘Wesley Clark’, ‘Mark Dayton’, ‘Alan Sabrosky’, ‘Cyntha McKinney’, ‘Jesse Ventura’, ‘Kurt Sonnenfeld’. “patriotsquestion911.com”






*13)* Towers were built to withstand a Boeing jet(s). “I designed it for a 707 to hit it”, Leslie Robertson, WTC structural engineer. “Could probably sustain multiple impacts of jetliners”, “like a pencil puncturing screen netting” Frank De Martini, deceased Manager of WTC Construction & Project Management. “As far as a plane knocking a building over, that would not happen.” Charlie Thornton, Structural Engineer.

*14)* History of American False Flag attacks. ‘USS Liberty’, ‘Gulf of Tonkin’, ‘Operation Northwoods’, ‘OKC Bombing (Murrah Building)’, ’1993 WTC attacks’. ‘Patrick Clawson’. Project for the New American Century (PNAC) needed “a New Pearl Harbor”, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”. 9/11 Achieved those goals.

*15)* BBC correspondent Jane Standley reported the collapse of WTC 7 (Soloman Brothers building) 20 minutes before it happened. CNN/FOX/MSNBC also had early reports. ‘BBC wtc 7′, ‘Jane Standley’, Ashleigh Banfield’.

*16)* “Flight 93″ debris was spread out over many miles. Cheney admits to giving the order to shootdown 93. “shot down the plane over Pennsylvania” Rumsfeld, “nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there” ‘Chris Konicki. “Not a drop of blood” Coroner Wallace Miller. “there was no plane.” Mayor Ernie Stull.

*17)* Bush hesitated for 441 days before starting the 911 Commission. ‘Jersey Girls’. ‘Phil Zelikow’ already wrote the outline before the commission began. Steel shipped over seas. Obstruction of justice. JFK and Pearl Harbor commissions were started within 7 days.

*18)* The 911 commission was given extremely limited funds. $15 million was given to investigate 9/11. (Over $60 Million was spent investigating Clintons’ affairs with Monica).

*19)* Bush said he watched the first plane crash into the North tower on TV before entering the classroom. “The TV was obviously on.” Was informed about the second impact while reading ‘My Pet Goat’ to the children. Remained for at least 8 more minutes while America was under “attack”.

*20)* The PATRIOT ACT was written before 9/11. Signed into law October 26th, 2001.

*21)* Marvin Bush was director of Stratasec (Securacom, ‘KuAm’) which was in charge of security of the WTC, United Airlines and Dulles International Airport. All three were breached on 9/11. ICTS was another company that provided security at the airports. ‘Wirt Walker’, ‘Ezra Harel’, ‘ICTS”, ‘WTC power downs’.

*22)* “Who killed John O’Neil?”. Former FBI task force agent investigating Al Qaeda/Bin Laden. Transferred by Kroll Corporation to head the security just before 9/11. John O’Neil died in the Towers. ‘Jerome Hauer’ ‘Jules Kroll’.

*23)* Insider trading based upon foreknowledge. ‘Put Options.’ Never identified insiders made millions. ‘United and American Airlines’ ‘Raytheon.’

*24)* At least 7 of the 19 listed highjackers are still alive (BBC). No video footage of 19 highjackers or passengers boarding the 4 planes. Pilots of the 4 planes never squawked the highjacking code. ‘Alive highjackers’, ‘ACARS’, ‘Pilots for 9/11 Truth’.





MastanKhan said:


> The terrorists did not fail in their attack on the Badaber base---they succeeded---they killed 29 military personal----so where is the failure in their attack.



1. The failed on moral grounds
2. They failed to attain their objective as they wanted to terrorise this Nation. Such attacks cannot break our resolve 




MastanKhan said:


> You last paragraph about humanity is utter stupidity of the worst level----you are a nobody to have any consideration when 29 soldiers lie dead at the hands of the terrorists-----failure of humanity----my ar-se----.



Terrorism is Global Phenomena. Try to understand it in broader prespective



MastanKhan said:


> Like of you seek perverse pleasure in talking about the sacrifices of the young warriors and claim them to be heroes----and that gets you ecstatic----.



Yes they are our Heroes. They are not key board warriors. 



MastanKhan said:


> If 29 soldiers dead is a success in preventing an attack on the base----then I wonder what a failure would account to.


You cannot prevent Terrorist attack anywhere in the world.


----------



## MastanKhan

Neutron said:


> It is not our debate today however i will like to know your perspective.....as a guidance for kid..... i think 9/11 as inside job
> 
> *1)* Nano Thermite was found in the dust at Ground Zero. Peer reviewed in the Bentham Open Chemical Physics Journal. ‘Niels Harrit’, ‘Thermite Bentham’, “The great thermate debate” Jon Cole, ‘Iron rich spheres’ Steven Jones, ‘Limited Metallurgical Examination (FEMA C-13, Appendix C-6)’. ‘Nano Tubes’
> 
> .



Hi,

That is the beyond the limits of ignorance and stupidity----.

Who gives a hoot who did 9 / 11. Pakistan was not blamed---no one had issues with Pakistan over this issue.

So---basically who gives a sh-it who did what---we did not do it---we were not blamed for it----.

Young man----what kind of teaching did you get from your household---from your adults and from your school teachers. Did no one ever tell you that if the blame is not yours to take---you don't need to swallow that pill.

Don't you get it young man----that the problem is you---it is you who does not have any clue how to handle the issue and how to resolve the problem.

Your ally---Mullah Umar told you how to handle the problem---he gave you a way out---and yet you did not have the cojones and the brains to take charge----.

Mullah Umar stated that if you don't agree with my decision---them bomb us---. It was you the Pakistani---wh blinked---who did not have the ballz to take the problem head on.

A christian army was threatening to invade a muslim country and was ready to pummel it----and you the pakistani was a part and parcel of the Christian invasion of muslim land.

You could have taken Mullah Umar on hs offer and bombed them and went in and killed Osama Bin Laden and given his head to the americans----.

Pakistanis must take the responsibility for some of the 1 and 1/2 million deaths of afghanis so far under the American rule.

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## Neutron

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> That is the beyond the limits of ignorance and stupidity----.



I salute your wisdom.....and appreciate your intellect ......... Senior people like you are really a role model for us....... we are here to learn from intellectuals of PDF as we new comers are ignorant and stupid...................... there are few genius on pdf sir you are one of them. Salute.


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## Dil Pakistan

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> *Exclusive:
> 
> Captain Isfandyar Shaheed:
> 
> View attachment 259294
> 
> 
> Junior Technician Tariq Abbas Shaheed:
> 
> View attachment 259296
> 
> 
> Beautiful Faces, Wanted to kiss their foreheads. May their souls rest in Peace.
> 
> Shaheed Ke Jo Mout Hai ... Wo Qoum Ke Hayat Hai ... Insha'Allah *



InshaALLAH...all of them ... and many many more like them will rise on the day of judgement; with their bright faces and peace in their hearts.

May ALLAH shower his blessings and mercy on ALL of them in the life after - Ameen.

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## MastanKhan

Neutron said:


> I salute your wisdom.....and appreciate your intellect ......... Senior people like you are really a role model for us....... we are here to learn from intellectuals of PDF as we new comers are ignorant and stupid...................... there are few genius on pdf sir you are one of them. Salute.



Hi,

Because you bring out moronic ideas and then you believe in them as well and when you get a response---you want to use the wisdom---.

If senior people were a role model---then you should have heard what I have been saying fir years now----. But NO---it won't happen---why--because you are a Pakistani---and inherently----you would want to grab the Baton in the middle of the relay race and go back and star all over.

Learning is not a lovey dovey experience----sometimes your idols are smashed----sometimes your beliefs are shattered----.

Get out of this mindset of who did 9 /11 and search for how can I escape the aftermath of 9 / 11.

The problem here is that the solutions were staring you right in front of your faces and you were searching for answers somewhere else---.

Nadeem Malik Live (RAW Agents Revelations About MQM) - 22nd September 2015


Hi,

Here is Nadeem Malik's interview with the Captain's mother----she states that the military quick response was not even ready-----the officer took it upon himself to take charge---got a rifle and jacket from a soldier and took off even thug his brigadier stopped him----. The captain is supposed to have said by the time they get here it would all be done.

I say again---that you guys roll over like puppies when the air force says something----.Stand up and question their narrative and you will find their story full of holes.

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## Humble Analyst

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Because you bring out moronic ideas and then you believe in them as well and when you get a response---you want to use the wisdom---.
> 
> If senior people were a role model---then you should have heard what I have been saying fir years now----. But NO---it won't happen---why--because you are a Pakistani---and inherently----you would want to grab the Baton in the middle of the relay race and go back and star all over.
> 
> Learning is not a lovey dovey experience----sometimes your idols are smashed----sometimes your beliefs are shattered----.
> 
> Get out of this mindset of who did 9 /11 and search for how can I escape the aftermath of 9 / 11.
> 
> The problem here is that the solutions were staring you right in front of your faces and you were searching for answers somewhere else---.
> 
> Nadeem Malik Live (RAW Agents Revelations About MQM) - 22nd September 2015
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Here is Nadeem Malik's interview with the Captain's mother----she states that the military quick response was not even ready-----the officer took it upon himself to take charge---got a rifle and jacket from a soldier and took off even thug his brigadier stopped him----. The captain is supposed to have said by the time they get here it would all be done.
> 
> I say again---that you guys roll over like puppies when the air force says something----.Stand up and question their narrative and you will find their story full of holes.


I agree with you Sir, Air Force need to revisit the matters of security. We as a nation either get angry and react or do not give proper reaction. Best thing will be to be proactive. However Air Force will need help in the matters of security unless they can raise/train additional security personnel. There might be other loop holes which I do not intend to discuss on this forum. In this age where Google earth is available and satellite technology can be used for supporters of these terrorists, we should be constantly evaluating and improving all areas, bases etc. A constant assessment of threat and vulnerability should be carried out internally and externally and it should evolve at a pace which may not cause disarray. The external audits by teams from different bases, Arms should be carried out on regular bases. External auditors should be seen as friends not enemies. Accept criticism with open mind and think out of the box.
If we continue to have loss of life on our side it will raise the enemy's morale higher.
This young brave man who laid down his life and got Shahadat went beyond his duty because it appears that this was not within his normal duties. So that tells me proper response drills were not carried out in this area and if they were carried out were not sufficient. We should use this again as an example to improve upon matters of security. Always some good can come out of a bad incident.

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## SQ8

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Because you bring out moronic ideas and then you believe in them as well and when you get a response---you want to use the wisdom---.
> 
> If senior people were a role model---then you should have heard what I have been saying fir years now----. But NO---it won't happen---why--because you are a Pakistani---and inherently----you would want to grab the Baton in the middle of the relay race and go back and star all over..



Not all senior people. You gloat too early.

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Dil Pakistan said:


> InshaALLAH...all of them ... and many many more like them will rise on the day of judgement; with their bright faces and peace in their hearts.
> 
> May ALLAH shower his blessings and mercy on ALL of them in the life after - Ameen.



Ameen!


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## Bilal Khan 777

So much bickering here, all personal and off topic. On the criticism of Air Force, they maybe stretched thin on the matters of security already, and they responded well to this attack on the residential camp. Can you prepare for suicidal attacks or people with suicidal intent? It is very difficult in my opinion.


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## Salik

batmannow said:


> & we won't let the dogs bite us again ?



Definitely, times up.

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## I.R.A

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> So much bickering here, all personal and off topic. On the criticism of Air Force, they maybe stretched thin on the matters of security already, and they responded well to this attack on the residential camp. Can you prepare for suicidal attacks or people with suicidal intent? It is very difficult in my opinion.



The real question is how these people with suicidal intent get access to accurate information about their targets? A bozo who has no contact with civilised world, who gets trained in mountains away and cut off from rest of Pakistan, who would have hardly visited big cities of Pakistan how he has the information about strategic assets or families of forces personnel?

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## Salik

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Remember that for a trooper on the move---the footwear is the most important part of his uniform and weapons----. Without proper footwear---a soldier is a nobody---.



1st terrorist: Oh no my shows are broken.

2nd terrorist: Heck now blow yourself. There is no other way.


Where there's foot there's foot print. It was a complete science with an expert known as 'Khoji'. Now shoe companies have well documented and computerized system. They issue sale voucher for claim and future reference. Only if they enter customer's NIC number and seriel number of the shoe we can track foot prints. Initially on Cheeta like brands. We can trace facilitator of footwear.

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## MastanKhan

Salik said:


> 1st terrorist: Oh no my shows are broken.
> 
> 2nd terrorist: Heck now blow yourself. There is no other way.
> 
> 
> Where there's foot there's foot print. It was a complete science with an expert known as 'Khoji'. Now shoe companies have well documented and computerized system. They issue sale voucher for claim and future reference. Only if they enter customer's NIC number and seriel number of the shoe we can track foot prints. Initially on Cheeta like brands. We can trace facilitator of footwear.



Hi,

I just reading this book " The Devil's Banker "----it is fascinating how everyone single transaction of mine is recorded at the bank anywhere in the world.

There are hardly any criminal banks left now---and they may also be bought by the U S and still running as criminal banks to keep track of the funds---.

So---you are correct----there is nothing out there that does not leave a mark.

That is what the Israelis told the americans----there are no weapons of mass destruction---there are no chemical labs---because all the lab material has serial numbers---all the glass material has serial numbers---and none is missing anywhere in the world.

Would people be surprised if I said that even the Israelis were against attacking Iraq the second time.

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## Spectre

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just reading this book " The Devil's Banker "----it is fascinating how everyone single transaction of mine is recorded at the bank anywhere in the world.
> 
> There are hardly any criminal banks left now---and they may also be bought by the U S and still running as criminal banks to keep track of the funds---.
> 
> So---you are correct----there is nothing out there that does not leave a mark.
> 
> That is what the Israelis told the americans----there are no weapons of mass destruction---there are no chemical labs---because all the lab material has serial numbers---all the glass material has serial numbers---and none is missing anywhere in the world.
> 
> Would people be surprised if I said that even the Israelis were against attacking Iraq the second time.



Wrong. Sir you can't be further from the truth.

I was a banker and you have no clue how transactions are masked and routed. How terrorist money, blood money, drug money laundering with complicity of the banks are one of the most lucrative business practices. Almost all major banks when caught get away with it by shelling few hundred million dollars to SEC and still it keeps happening over and over again.

Find out about how sensitive equipment which are supposed to strictly controlled and restricted go missing all the time and turn up in rogue states.

Sadly not much is reported due to obvious security risks.

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## MastanKhan

Spectre said:


> Wrong. Sir you can't be further from the truth.
> 
> I was a banker and you have no clue how transactions are masked and routed. How terrorist money, blood money, drug money laundering with complicity of the banks are one of the most lucrative business practices. Almost all major banks when caught get away with it by shelling few hundred million dollars to SEC and still it keeps happening over and over again.
> 
> Find out about how sensitive equipment which are supposed to strictly controlled and restricted go missing all the time and turn up in rogue states.
> 
> Sadly not much is reported due to obvious security risks.




Hi,

Well----I am glad that you shared that---but knowing uncle sam---I am going to stay on the side of uncle sam---.

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## Spectre

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well----I am glad that you shared that---but knowing uncle sam---I am going to stay on the side of uncle sam---.



Well if you compare resources available with SEC and the salary levels on offer then it would be no surprise that SEC is scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of quality. 

White collar crime which was supposed to be the forte of FBI is flourishing as FBI is overloaded dealing with "Islamic Threats"


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## batmannow

*Dawn News*

HOME

LATEST

PAKISTAN
Sons of former Lal Masjid cleric arrested in Islamabad[/paste:font]
IRFAN HAIDER | SHAKEEL QARAR — UPDATED 22 MINUTES AGO
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PRINT




Sons of deceased Lal Masjid cleric Ghazi Abdul Rasheed, Haroon and Haris. ─ DawnNews screengrab
ISLAMABAD: Two suspected terrorists arrested from Islamabad's F-6 sector late on Tuesday have been identified as the sons of deceased Lal Masjid cleric Ghazi Abdul Rasheed.

The suspects identified as Haris and Haroon were arrested by a joint team of Police and Rangers who were patrolling the area at the time.

An army uniform and a handgun were seized from their vehicle. A First Information Report (FIR) was lodged against the 'terrorists' for the possession of a weapon at the Kohsar police station.

The suspects are being questioned by authorities.

According to DawnNews, a Lal Masjid spokesman said the FIR is an attempt to bar the sons in their attempts to pursue a case against former president Musharraf who was charged for the murder of the Lal Masjid cleric.

_Read: Lal Masjid cleric's murder case: Musharraf files bail plea_

The spokesman allegedly said that no uniform had been recovered from the car and that only a weapon was present in the vehicle. He added that the recovered weapon was licensed.

Lal Masjid’s radical Maulana Abdul Rashid Ghazi body was found in the basement of Jamia Hafsa as the security forces’ 2007 Operation Silence neared its culmination.

A large number of people including militants, seminary students and military troops were killed in the operation.

Despite strong concerns from religious quarters, a clean-up operation against seminaries and terror-funding outfits has expanded into the federal capital.

Also read: _Badaber attack: Five Pakistani 'terrorists' identified_

Let's see how many eyes cry for them this time ?


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## Salik

I S I said:


> Also who the F uses suzuki pessenger van. This event could be avoided.



When police uses passenger vehicles by herself how will she check others. Police use rickshaw to transport `TTP militants` to court | ePaper | DAWN.COM First make them follow the regulations. 

Secondly there's communication gap between police and military/para military forces. Whenever military is moving through an area whether in contigent or single vehicle an alert or notice must be issued to local police with exact description of transport. Without that police has authority to stop any vehicle claiming to be military. Now even if they have false ID cards police won't let them go. They'll be filtered automatically.


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## Farah Sohail

Informant said:


> Bak bak nahin karta bas .
> 
> 2 days.



What happened to your 3 days deadline? As expected....nothng happened


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## MastanKhan

Spectre said:


> Well if you compare resources available with SEC and the salary levels on offer then it would be no surprise that SEC is scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of quality.
> 
> White collar crime which was supposed to be the forte of FBI is flourishing as FBI is overloaded dealing with "Islamic Threats"



Hi,

I apologize if I did not emphasize on the anti terror part of the banking in the book that I mentioned----and not the white collar type.


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## Informant

Farah Sohail said:


> What happened to your 3 days deadline? As expected....nothng happened



Did you expect magic? People getting picked up is what happened. Middle of the night, disappearing without a trace. And will stay that way.

Terrorism wont end for another 25 years, anything less than that and you're dreaming. Patience is a virtue which is what we can only exercise. Rest pray failures only tend to be sparse.


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## Bratva

Informant said:


> Bak bak nahin karta bas .
> 
> 2 days.



Bhai bulaand o bala davay nahi karnay chahye Jab koi nazar anay wala karnama na ho in the end

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## Humble Analyst

Informant said:


> Did you expect magic? People getting picked up is what happened. Middle of the night, disappearing without a trace. And will stay that way.
> 
> Terrorism wont end for another 25 years, anything less than that and you're dreaming. Patience is a virtue which is what we can only exercise. Rest pray failures only tend to be sparse.


While being just is right, however in a society full of devil's advocates the lines of right and wrong boundaries keep on moving, to the criminals advantage.


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## Arsalan

Solomon2 said:


> They are supposed to fight for nothing and just let others who _are_ willing to fight push them around? Do you see the contradiction in what you're advocating here?


Well actually NO, sorry i missed it. What i was saying was that government need to make sure people are not lured into the same trap again. My point was that it is the brain washed people who form the majority of TTPs work force. What were you saying? what contradiction? will be please to know about your point of view and come to some conclusion.



Salik said:


> Your points are need of the hour sir and work on them will continue to address terrorism and overall social upgradation. But i have given my time, next 12 months no terror attacks. Victory declared and day of celebration.



I guess they are.
About the timeline, i do not believe that your target will be met. We had a sad incident last week? 

Even it is does (Allah kray) the thing with insurgencies is that they are in no hurry. We will beat them up make them run away and they will regroup when it is convenient and will come back. You may want to study the Soviet war in Afghanistan Or the Tamil insurgency in Srilanka, even Vietcong in Vietnam war with US, it will give you a good idea. What need to be done is to stop that regrouping. For that forces wont be a viable option. You need force to beat them and scatter then and then need governance to avoid the regrouping and rehiring. While military had shown it is up to the task i am a bit worried about the government. I hope they will step up to the task as well and make it happen. this is the only way we will end it eventually.


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## Solomon2

Arsalan said:


> Well actually NO, sorry i missed it. What i was saying was that government need to make sure people are not lured into the same trap again. My point was that it is the brain washed people who form the majority of TTPs work force. What were you saying? what contradiction? will be please to know about your point of view and come to some conclusion.


My point is that telling people to be good and not revolt against a Pakistani government widely seen as corrupt is like hammering shut a steam relief valve: sooner or later the boiler will explode. Don't you think it would be more useful to educate people about what the acceptable means are for resolving disputes between themselves and the government?

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## Arsalan

Solomon2 said:


> My point is that telling people to be good and not revolt against a Pakistani government widely seen as corrupt is like hammering shut a steam relief valve: sooner or later the boiler will explode. Don't you think it would be more useful to educate people about what the acceptable means are for resolving disputes between themselves and the government?


I do not think that is the the "government being seen as corrupt" that makes terrorists. This bunch is motivated by twisted teaching labeled as Islam, even if the corrupt government can step up and provide equal opportunities to these areas, like education and health, job opportunities, like bringing them close to the level of other parts of our country it will help end the hiring for TTP to a large extent. It is the brain washing and miss guidance that need to be handled by governance and not by force. What we could have achieved by force, the military is doing an excellent job at that.


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## Bilal Khan 777

Neutron said:


> I salute your wisdom.....and appreciate your intellect ......... Senior people like you are really a role model for us....... we are here to learn from intellectuals of PDF as we new comers are ignorant and stupid...................... there are few genius on pdf sir you are one of them. Salute.



There are traitors and misguided amongst are midst still, thats how. When so called terrorists are being supported by State Actors, then they have access to information, and they are not just rag tags trained in mountains. Make no mistake that the so called taliban or any other mercenaries in Pakistan are operating without the financial support or command and control of a much more organised and well trained sponsor (s), with very specific tactical and strategic goals.

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## Donatello

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> There are traitors and misguided amongst are midst still, thats how. When so called terrorists are being supported by State Actors, then they have access to information, and they are not just rag tags trained in mountains. Make no mistake that the so called taliban or any other mercenaries in Pakistan are operating without the financial support or command and control of a much more organised and well trained sponsor (s), with very specific tactical and strategic goals.


What are these 'tactical and strategic goals'? Can you please elucidate.


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## Bilal Khan 777

Donatello said:


> What are these 'tactical and strategic goals'? Can you please elucidate.



I am just a simple soldier. i am sure your imagination is more vivid than mine. However, tactical goals are to cause anarchy, fear, unrest, and shatter confidence in and for Pakistan, and strategic aims are to destabilise Pakistan to a degree where it is prone to secession, and where the PK Nukes become up for grabs, creating a fearful enemy the west can forever use as the boogie man in the increasing multi-polary world, and justify the insane spending on defence while human rights are pummelled everywhere, at home and abroad.

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## Mrc

I agree with above assesment...
Aim was to create another syria or libya like situation...
And i dont think original planners were our eastern neighbours

But i think that plan is now in tatters...
Only small scale militancy will continue...especially now with cpec in sight...
Its like game of chess where u have to fight at every step


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## MastanKhan

Solomon2 said:


> My point is that telling people to be good and not revolt against a Pakistani government widely seen as corrupt is like hammering shut a steam relief valve: sooner or later the boiler will explode. Don't you think it would be more useful to educate people about what the acceptable means are for resolving disputes between themselves and the government?



Hi,

Thank you Solomon-----corruption is the source of all the evils in the society. Can you just imagine if 2/3 rd of the money that is stolen each year----goes back and is a part of development and welfare of the society---what a big difference it would make in the lives of the people.

Pakistan needs a very quick and sharp revolution---there is no other way arund it.


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## Donatello

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> I am just a simple soldier. i am sure your imagination is more vivid than mine. However, tactical goals are to cause anarchy, fear, unrest, and shatter confidence in and for Pakistan, and strategic aims are to destabilise Pakistan to a degree where it is prone to secession, and where the PK Nukes become up for grabs, creating a fearful enemy the west can forever use as the boogie man in the increasing multi-polary world, and justify the insane spending on defence while human rights are pummelled everywhere, at home and abroad.



But why target a very specific aircraft? why not Mirage III/V? I mean, who would benefit from this? Not the talibunnies. Same in the case of P3C orion attack.

Those are task specific aircraft.


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## HRK

Donatello said:


> But why target a very specific aircraft? why not Mirage III/V? I mean, who would benefit from this? Not the talibunnies. Same in the case of P3C orion attack.
> 
> Those are task specific aircraft.



'Centralize strategy for decentralize tactics' ..... concept of swarming in battlefield


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## Mrc

Donatello said:


> But why target a very specific aircraft? why not Mirage III/V? I mean, who would benefit from this? Not the talibunnies. Same in the case of P3C orion attack.
> 
> Those are task specific aircraft.




That is what raises the eye brows...
Why to go after awacs or anti submarine aircraft?? Why to leave transport aircraft in plain site un touched?? 
For taliban who donot have an airforce or submarines, would it not be a better option to destroy the transport aircraft?? 

Was some body else giving them targets.. 
Targets that are meaningless for them but a potential threat to an organised military...


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## Viper0011.

Mrc said:


> That is what raises the eye brows... Why to go after awacs or anti submarine aircraft?? Why to leave transport aircraft in plain site un touched??
> For taliban who donot have an airforce or submarines, would it not be a better option to destroy the transport aircraft??.



What would the transport aircraft so?? Transport a few hundred troops and equipment? And what would EACH AWACS can do? Put the entire IAF's aircraft that take off from an Indian base at risk!!!! So what's more dangerous for India? The AWACS!!! These terrorists were trained and re-equipped in Afghanistan by RAW. There is no hiding of it, these basterds are rent a terrorist organization and they'll kill anyone for any reason, whether money, religion or hate for others. That's why these scums need to be taken out so the remainder of the humanity can live in peace!

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## Bilal Khan 777

Donatello said:


> But why target a very specific aircraft? why not Mirage III/V? I mean, who would benefit from this? Not the talibunnies. Same in the case of P3C orion attack.
> 
> Those are task specific aircraft.



Why target a specific aircraft you ask? because this aircraft broke a specific kind of stealth that US was experimenting with, and that DRDO bought 10 of these systems for their own AW&C program. For the P3C, there were specific modifications to the aircraft which the US didn't approve. When they were not able to prove post physical inspection, the aircraft got attacked. In the asymmetric warfare, its much easier to degrade enemy's capability through mercenaries than other conventional means.

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## Donatello

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Why target a specific aircraft you ask? because this aircraft broke a specific kind of stealth that US was experimenting with, and that DRDO bought 10 of these systems for their own AW&C program. For the P3C, there were specific modifications to the aircraft which the US didn't approve. When they were not able to prove post physical inspection, the aircraft got attacked. In the asymmetric warfare, its much easier to degrade enemy's capability through mercenaries than other conventional means.



Okay, i am not sure if i am following you here, as it sounds more like conspiracy theory. What Stealth was US experimenting with the region?


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## Stag112

Donatello said:


> But why target a very specific aircraft? why not Mirage III/V? I mean, who would benefit from this? Not the talibunnies. Same in the case of P3C orion attack.
> 
> Those are task specific aircraft.



There were no aircraft in this airbase. That proves Talibans do not work for a foreign military.

Just the kind of simplistic ''analyses'' that gets thrown around here.


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## Bilal Khan 777

Donatello said:


> Okay, i am not sure if i am following you here, as it sounds more like conspiracy theory. What Stealth was US experimenting with the region?



Your question is such that a response will only seem like conspiracy. What stealth? Abbottabad.



Stag112 said:


> There were no aircraft in this airbase. That proves Talibans do not work for a foreign military.
> 
> Just the kind of simplistic ''analyses'' that gets thrown around here.



Your simplistic denial of Taliban not working for or on behalf of a Foreign state is also comical. from where you hail, we don't expect any less.


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## Stag112

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Your simplistic denial of Taliban not working for or on behalf of a Foreign state is also comical. from where you hail, we don't expect any less.



I only presented a simplistic denial to expose the simplistic accusations and analyses you guys are making. But you are too much into conspiracies to understand that. BTW those conspiracies of yours, also speak volumes of where you hail from too


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## Mrc

Stag112 said:


> There were no aircraft in this airbase. That proves Talibans do not work for a foreign military.
> 
> Just the kind of simplistic ''analyses'' that gets thrown around here.




There was a sort of weapons fascility on air base but attackers failed to breach the outer cordone...


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