# Afzal Guru hanged



## Soumitra

According to News Reports Afzal Guru convicted in the parliament attack was hanged in Tihar Jail at 8 o'clock this morning

He was hanged in complete secrecy, curfew in many Kashmir towns.

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## zaxcollix

Excellent news  if true. Looks like as the election draws near congress is trying to do a few things right.


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## Soumitra

*Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail*

NEW DELHI: Parliament attack convict Afzal Guru has been hanged on Saturday morning at Delhi's Tihar jail. 

According to TV reports, home ministry has confirmed Afzal Guru has been hanged. 

Earlier the reports said that his mercy plea had been rejected by President Pranab Mukherjee. He was convicted for his role in the attack on Parliament in 2001. 

A curfew has been clamped in parts of Jammu and Kashmir. 

Afzal Guru was given the death sentence by the Supreme Court in 2004. His hanging, scheduled for October 2006, was suspended or stayed after his wife filed a mercy petition on his behalf. 

Sources say that the President informed the home ministry that he had rejected the mercy petition on January 23. 

In December 2001, five heavily-armed terrorists drove into the Parliament complex and opened fire. 

Nine people were killed, most of them members of the security forces. The terrorists were shot dead. 

Both houses of Parliament had just been adjourned and several MPs were still inside. 

A few days later, Afzal Guru was arrested. 

The main opposition party, the BJP, has repeatedly questioned the delay in the execution of Afzal Guru, and its leaders last questioned the government in Parliament on the 11th anniversary of the attack last month. 

In November last year, Ajmal Kasab, the terrorist from Pakistan who was caught during the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai, was executed in a Pune jail in a top-secret operation.

Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail - The Times of India

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## agamdilawari

Je baat


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## dravidianhero

This is one of the greatest things congress has done in its entire history.Pakistan should stop using kashmiris for their advantage if they have any love for them.
jai hind

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## Cherokee

TIHAR JAIL --Afzal guru hanged 

YERWADA JAIL--Kasab hanged 

waiting for few more jails to make it into the list .....

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## karan.1970

Kashmir is going to boil... But awesome stand by the govt.. I may just vote for congress again in 2014

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## Soumitra

*Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in his hometown in Kashmir valley*

A curfew was declared in and around Afzal Guru's hometown of Sopore in the Kashmir Valley after his execution at Delhi's Tihar Jail this morning. Afzal Guru was convicted more than eight years ago for his role in the attack on Parliament in 2001. His mercy petition was rejected by President Pranab Mukherjee a few days ago.

Sensitive areas in Srinagar, just 35 kms from Sopore, have been sealed. The army is on high alert.

Afzal Guru, a Kashmiri Muslim, had been on death row for nearly eight years. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has repeatedly stressed that his execution could have serious repercussions in his state.

Afzal Guru was sentenced to death in 2004 by the Supreme Court for his role in the attack on Parliament in 2001. Five terrorists drove into the Parliament complex and opened fire. They were shot. Nine others people were killed, most of them security guards.

Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in his hometown in Kashmir valley | NDTV.com

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## joekrish

Good start to a great morning.

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## liontk

Another terroriste bites the dust, i think indienne government made a good decision, just read up on him. Murdering 7 security officials is not the way to do about things. As far as the greater message, indienne should examine their action in kashmir and identify the core problem and hopefully address the misgrievences. Though sad, the cycle will continue to repeat until the issue is dealt with and violence and torture will not be the solution to those problems. I think working with the kashmiri people and possibly giving them autonomous right will make sure that in future there are no afzals though the wounds do appear to be deep. However still congrats to the government for providing justice for the seven families ironic but good job still nontheless

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## Iggy

Finally government showing some spine!! 

The Heros who laid their lives for protecting the politicians can rest in peace now!!

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## lightoftruth

finally.....


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## sreekimpact

GR8 NEWS !! INDEED..............


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## nForce

Paradigm shift in the policies of Government of India.
The hanging of Kasab and then Afzal Guru within such a short period of time shows that the government is now willing to take aggressive steps to tackle terrorism.
Times are changing.

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## Roybot

RIP.

May you return as a better person in your next life.

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## dravidianhero

Its really a wonder that none of the pakistani channels are mentioning this news except some scrolling downs.they used him as a pawn now when he died they dont feel to talk something about him on their channels.what a shame!


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## imran_ind

Thats a gud news .she should have been hanged long ago but never late . gud job by the govt

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## OrionHunter

Cheers all around! Congress gets



for a change!!

Rot in hell! Who's next?

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## A.Rafay

karan.1970 said:


> Kashmir is going to boil... But awesome stand by the govt.. I may just vote for congress again in 2014



Kashmir will boil as long as you have occupied it.
Congrats on hanging the terrorist though disputes should be solved with dialogue.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Probbly innocent man

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## karan.1970

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Probbly innocent man



Yeah! I know a lot of Pakistanis consider OBL as innocent too..

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## Android

Roybot said:


> RIP.
> May you return as a better person in your next life.


his karma wont allow him to return as a "person" in next life



Roybot said:


> RIP.
> May you return as a better person in your next life.


his karma wont allow him to return as a "person" in next life

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## KRAIT

My FB Message, Please Human Rights Activists, Don't Ruin Our Celebration.

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## Iggy

CNN IBN reports that it was a counter damage done by Shinde over his Hindu Terror remarks..

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## T90TankGuy

While human right groups do a wonderful job in India questioning and targeting the govt agencies when they step out of line , they were actually making a case to spare this scum on humanitarian grounds . 

Glad the govt took a hard stand . And one must not forget the President , he rejected the petition while the previous one sat on it for 5 yrs.

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## kaykay

news made my day....burn in hell afzal!

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## StormShadow

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Probbly innocent man


Yeah...an icon of peace.

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## for truth

if rape threads are to be banned, then this hanging thread also should be banned, not trying to act as a hero here, but, this thread really questions our behavior,morale and ethics. felling of justice served should not be taken over by celebratory tone.Any way, justice prevails.

satya meva jayate.

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## zaxcollix

for truth said:


> if rape threads are to be banned, then this hanging thread also should be banned, not trying to act as a hero here, but, this thread really questions our behavior,morale and ethics. felling of justice served should not be taken over by celebratory tone.Any way, justice prevails.
> 
> satya meva jayate.



Why not ? We should always celebrate Justice served.


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## scorpionx

for truth said:


> if rape threads are to be banned, then this hanging thread also should be banned, not trying to act as a hero here, but, this thread really questions our behavior,morale and ethics. felling of justice served should not be taken over by celebratory tone.Any way, justice prevails.
> 
> satya meva jayate.


I could have posted a picture of a hanging rat as some Pakistani member posted on the thread about black tiger few days back.But celebration is necessary when this low life real rats are shown the path to hell.

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## KS

karan.1970 said:


> . I may just vote for congress again in 2014



 .

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## walwal

Finally the govt showed some guts to take firm steps. IN a way, it should force BJP now to focus on 2014 on clear agenda with issues of national importance minus Guru and Kasab and Mandir-Masjid. 

A battle would be worth watch.

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## pm modi

Kasab must be busy in welcoming
his Jehadi brother in hell

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## KS

Expect a wankfest in the TV studios by the self-declared intellectuals, HR champions, leftie liberals for the next two days.

Not to forget a 30,00,000 word essay from Arundati Roy

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## dravidianhero

for truth said:


> if rape threads are to be banned, then this hanging thread also should be banned, not trying to act as a hero here, but, this thread really questions our behavior,morale and ethics. felling of justice served should not be taken over by celebratory tone.Any way, justice prevails.
> 
> satya meva jayate.


man people would not have felt so happy if the culprit is from a sikh or hindu community.As this man belongs to a community which has been torturing hindus for hundreds of years,people naturally celebrate it..go and read history of india starting from medieval times..how can any true indian forget the atrocities they have been subjected to..?how can we forget the blood that was spilled by those people as recently as during partition of india when 8000 lakh hindus and sikhs had been raped and killed mercilessly..how can anyone forget 1 crore people sent away from their ancestral home land ?dont try to preach non sense..it is the duty of every human to strive to defeat adharma and taking pride in it.


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## Jason bourne

Parliament attack convict Mohamammed Afzal Guru was hanged on Saturday morning at 8 am at Tihar jail.

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## SpArK

Yo Afzal !!

Party in hell tonight.. Bro! 

With DJ Osama and Belly dances with Kasab and Co. 

EnjoY the Party 

_It's getting hot in here, so hot, so blast off all your bombs
I am, getting so hot, I wanna take my bomb off_

_Lyrics courtesy -Nelly._

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## KRAIT

@dravidianhero Control bhai. Don't generalize any religion or community.

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## notsuperstitious

Justice done. He chose the path of violence and killed* 7* security people.

Whats sad is that he was kept alive as a symbol of weakness for 7 years. In the meantime a blast happened outside Delhi court demanding his release, that killed* 11 more *people. This soft attitude towards terror by GOI only backfires.

You CANNOT appease terror supporters. Its not only wrong, its also impossible.

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## Parul

Already Posted...


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## Ayush

Afzal all your plea letters will be forwarded to ajmal now.

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## A.Rafay

KRAIT said:


> OK, 18. Fine ? Dude did I target any one ?



Still the whole thing of virgins is offensive.

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## for truth

dravidianhero said:


> man people would not have felt so happy if the culprit is from a sikh or hindu community.As this man belongs to a community which has been torturing hindus for hundreds of years,people naturally celebrate it..go and read history of india starting from medieval times..how can any true indian forget the atrocities they have been subjected to..?how can we forget the blood that was spilled by those people as recently as during partition of india when *8000 lakh hindus* and sikhs had been raped and killed mercilessly..how can anyone forget 1 crore people sent away from their ancestral home land ?dont try to preach non sense..it is the duty of every human to strive to defeat adharma and taking pride in it.



where did you get this figure from?

let me put it this way, there has to be revenge, but that shouldn't mean we should jump up and down for it, that will only make us look like uncivilized. there will be not any difference between us and Arabs if we start celebrating the death of a scum on face of earth. it's not an accomplishment, we served what this scum deserved, and that should end at that.

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## dravidianhero

KS said:


> Expect a wankfest in the TV studios by the self-declared intellectuals, HR champions, leftie liberals for the next two days.
> 
> Not to forget a 30,00,000 word essay from Arundati Roy


Have you noticed how with the advent of inter net and social media the attitude of governments towards hurting the sentiments of hindus changed?now a days no one dares to speak as outrageously as they used to defaming hindus...political parties used to take hindus for a ride..thanks to internet that people have a way to vent out that expression which main stream media in india never provided...people are getting more and more aware of their history as well..the classic example is akbaruddin owaisi..he has been making such speeches for a long time and thought he would go scott free..if it was like 7 or 8 yrs ago he would have been going about freely making such speeches calling himself sher e deccan..but times are changing..ppl are getting to know their history..hindus had enough of these pseudo seculars..one more thing is had it not been for the fear of hindu vote bank ,congress would have not hanged him..this move is only to get votes of hindus..but unfortunately for them it is too late.


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## Marxist

Congress leader Mani Shankar Aiyar says"The Decision to Hang AfzalGuru is sad" ....typical congressi

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## mahabharath

Marxist said:


> Congress leader Mani Shankar Aiyar says"The Decision to Hang AfzalGuru is sad" ....typical congressi



They want to score points over Modi but they don't want to lose minority votes..what can they say then? 

I want to see Rahul Gandhi with minimum possible MPs in the Parliament...after all..what is he qualified for?

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## KRAIT

Marxist said:


> Congress leader Mani Shankar Aiyar says"The Decision to Hang AfzalGuru is sad" ....typical congressi



I am telling you guys.

Vinaash kaale, Viprit Buddhi. 

Congress blame knicker wearing lathi holding people and feels sad for terrorists.

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## dravidianhero

for truth said:


> where did you get this figure from?
> 
> let me put it this way, there has to be revenge, but that shouldn't mean we should jump up and down for it, that will only make us look like uncivilized. there will be not any difference between us and Arabs if we start celebrating the death of a scum on face of earth. it's not an accomplishment, we served what this scum deserved, and that should end at that.


you are funny man..shouldn't I even feel happy for the punishment of my enemy who deserved it?you want me to behave like a sarva sangha parityaagi?Man as long as one does not say bad is bad you cant bring good..hindus have been tortured and persecuted by a community and thats a fact..it is the duty of every indian to bring those atrocities to light..otherwise the persecutor plays the card of victimhood as he is doing now.


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## KRAIT

This thread shouldn't be closed. Guys, don't generalize. 

All who wants to discuss human rights, can make separate thread.

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## dravidianhero

KRAIT said:


> I am telling you guys.
> 
> Vinaash kaale, Viprit Buddhi.
> 
> Congress blame knicker wearing lathi holding people and feels sad for terrorists.


There is no way upa is going to power next time..people are not stupids to not realise why they did this hanging..nda for sure will come to power but i am not sure whether modi will become our PM.i feel if nda announces modi as prime ministerial candidate they will win with a thumping majority...That will be the day of indias true independence.


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## KRAIT

SAR Geelani slams government on Afzal Guru's hanging - The Times of India



dravidianhero said:


> There is no way upa is going to power next time..people are not stupids to not realise why they did this hanging..nda for sure will come to power but i am not sure whether modi will become our PM.i feel if nda announces modi as prime ministerial candidate they will win with a thumping majority...That will be the day of indias true independence.


Well, keep fingers crossed. 

Lets focus on this good news.

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## Soumitra

KS said:


> Expect a wankfest in the TV studios by the self-declared intellectuals, HR champions, leftie liberals for the next two days.
> 
> Not to forget a 30,00,000 word essay from Arundati Roy



I found her article when the Supreme Court confirmed the hanging



> We know this much: On December 13, 2001, the Indian Parliament was in its winter session. (The NDA government was under attack for yet another corruption scandal.) At 11.30 in the morning, five armed men in a white Ambassador car fitted out with an Improvised Explosive Device drove through the gates of Parliament House. When they were challenged, they jumped out of the car and opened fire. In the gun battle that followed, all the attackers were killed. Eight security personnel and a gardener were killed too. The dead terrorists, the police said, had enough explosives to blow up the Parliament building, and enough ammunition to take on a whole battalion of soldiers. Unlike most terrorists, these five left behind a thick trail of evidenceweapons, mobile phones, phone numbers, ID cards, photographs, packets of dry fruit, and even a love letter.
> 
> Not surprisingly, PM A.B. Vajpayee seized the opportunity to compare the assault to the September 11 attacks in the US that had happened only three months previously.
> 
> 
> 
> In its August 4, 2005, judgement the Supreme Court clearly says that there was no evidence that Mohammed Afzal belonged to any terrorist group or organisation.
> 
> 
> On December 14, 2001, the day after the attack on Parliament, the Special Cell of the Delhi Police claimed it had tracked down several people suspected to have been involved in the conspiracy. A day later, on December 15, it announced that it had "cracked the case": the attack, the police said, was a joint operation carried out by two Pakistan-based terrorist groups, Lashkar-e-Toiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed. Twelve people were named as being part of the conspiracy. Ghazi Baba of the Jaish (Usual Suspect I), Maulana Masood Azhar also of the Jaish (Usual Suspect II); Tariq Ahmed (a "Pakistani"); five deceased "Pakistani terrorists" (we still don't know who they are). And three Kashmiri men, S.A.R. Geelani, Shaukat Hussain Guru, and Mohammed Afzal; and Shaukat's wife Afsan Guru. These were the only four to be arrested.
> 
> In the tense days that followed, Parliament was adjourned. On December 21, India recalled its high commissioner from Pakistan, suspended air, rail and bus communications and banned over-flights. It put into motion a massive mobilisation of its war machinery, and moved more than half-a-million troops to the Pakistan border. Foreign embassies evacuated their staff and citizens, and tourists travelling to India were issued cautionary travel advisories. The world watched with bated breath as the subcontinent was taken to the brink of nuclear war. (All this cost India an estimated Rs 10,000 crore of public money. A few hundred soldiers died just in the panicky process of mobilisation.)
> 
> Almost three-and-a-half years later, on August 4, 2005, the Supreme Court delivered its final judgement in the case. It endorsed the view that the Parliament attack be looked upon as an act of war. It said, "The attempted attack on Parliament is an undoubted invasion of the sovereign attribute of the State including the Government of India which is its alter ego...the deceased terrorists were roused and impelled to action by a strong anti-Indian feeling as the writing on the fake home ministry sticker found on the car (Ex PW1/8) reveals." It went on to say "the modus operandi adopted by the hardcore 'fidayeens' are all demonstrative of launching a war against the Government of India".
> 
> The text on the fake home ministry sticker read as follows:
> "INDIA IS A VERY BAD COUNTRY AND WE HATE INDIA WE WANT TO DESTROY INDIA AND WITH THE GRACE OF GOD WE WILL DO IT GOD IS WITH US AND WE WILL TRY OUR BEST. THIS EDIET WAJPAI AND ADVANI WE WILL KILL THEM. THEY HAVE KILLED MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE AND THEY ARE VERY BAD PERSONS THERE BROTHER BUSH IS ALSO A VERY BAD PERSON HE WILL BE NEXT TARGET HE IS ALSO THE KILLER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE HE HAVE TO DIE AND WE WILL DO IT."
> 
> 
> This subtly worded sticker-manifesto was displayed on the windscreen of the car bomb as it drove into Parliament. (Given the amount of text, it's a wonder the driver could see anything at all. Maybe that's why he collided with the Vice-President's cavalcade?)
> 
> The police chargesheet was filed in a special fast-track trial court designated for cases under the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA). The trial court sentenced Geelani, Shaukat and Afzal to death. Afsan Guru was sentenced to five years of rigorous imprisonment. The high court subsequently acquitted Geelani and Afsan, but it upheld Shaukat's and Afzal's death sentence. Eventually, the Supreme Court upheld the acquittals, and reduced Shaukat's punishment to 10 years of rigorous imprisonment. However it not just confirmed, but enhanced Mohammed Afzal's sentence. He has been given three life sentences and a double death sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> The SC goes on to say, "The incident... had shaken the entire nation, and the collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender."
> 
> 
> In its August 4, 2005, judgement, the Supreme Court clearly says that there was no evidence that Mohammed Afzal belonged to any terrorist group or organisation. But it also says, "As is the case with most of the conspiracies, there is and could be no direct evidence of the agreement amounting to criminal conspiracy. However, the circumstances, cumulatively weighed, would unerringly point to the collaboration of the accused Afzal with the slain 'fidayeen' terrorists."
> 
> So: No direct evidence, but yes, circumstantial evidence.
> 
> A controversial paragraph in the judgement goes on to say, "The incident, which resulted in heavy casualties, had shaken the entire nation, and the collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender. The challenge to the unity, integrity and sovereignty of India by these acts of terrorists and conspirators can only be compensated by giving maximum punishment to the person who is proved to be the conspirator in this treacherous act" (emphasis mine).
> 
> To invoke the 'collective conscience of society' to validate ritual murder, which is what the death penalty is, skates precariously close to valorising lynch law. It's chilling to think that this has been laid upon us not by predatory politicians or sensation-seeking journalists (though they too have done that), but as an edict from the highest court in the land.
> 
> Spelling out the reasons for awarding Afzal the death penalty, the judgement goes on to say, "The appellant, who is a surrendered militant and who was bent upon repeating the acts of treason against the nation, is a menace to the society and his life should become extinct."
> 
> This paragraph combines flawed logic with absolute ignorance of what it means to be a 'surrendered militant' in Kashmir today.
> 
> So: Should Mohammed Afzal's life become extinct?
> 
> A small, but influential minority of intellectuals, activists, editors, lawyers and public figures have objected to the Death Sentence as a matter of moral principle. They also argue that there is no empirical evidence to suggest that the Death Sentence works as a deterrent to terrorists. (How can it, when, in this age of fidayeen and suicide bombers, death seems to be the main attraction?)
> 
> If opinion polls, letters-to-the-editor and the reactions of live audiences in TV studios are a correct gauge of public opinion in India, then the lynch mob is expanding by the hour. It looks as though an overwhelming majority of Indian citizens would like to see Mohammed Afzal hanged every day, weekends included, for the next few years. L.K. Advani, leader of the Opposition, displaying an unseemly sense of urgency, wants him to be hanged as soon as possible, without a moment's delay.
> 
> 
> 
> The police knew their cold-blooded fabrication of a profile for these 'terrorists' would mould public opinion, create a climate for trial. But there will not be any legal scrutiny.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile in Kashmir, public opinion is equally overwhelming. Huge angry protests make it increasingly obvious that if Afzal is hanged, the consequences will be political. Some protest what they see as a miscarriage of justice, but even as they protest, they do not expect justice from Indian courts. They have lived through too much brutality to believe in courts, affidavits and justice any more. Others would like to see Mohammed Afzal march to the gallows like Maqbool Butt, a proud martyr to the cause of Kashmir's freedom struggle. On the whole, most Kashmiris see Mohammed Afzal as a sort of prisoner-of-war being tried in the courts of an occupying power. (Which it undoubtedly is). Naturally, political parties, in India as well as in Kashmir, have sniffed the breeze and are cynically closing in for the kill.
> 
> Sadly, in the midst of the frenzy, Afzal seems to have forfeited the right to be an individual, a real person any more. He's become a vehicle for everybody's fantasiesnationalists, separatists, and anti-capital punishment activists. He has become India's great villain and Kashmir's great heroproving only that whatever our pundits, policymakers and peace gurus say, all these years later, the war in Kashmir has by no means ended.
> 
> In a situation as fraught and politicised as this, it's tempting to believe that the time to intervene has come and gone. After all, the judicial process lasted 40 months, and the Supreme Court has examined the evidence before it. It has convicted two of the accused and acquitted the other two. Surely this in itself is proof of judicial objectivity? What more remains to be said? There's another way of looking at it. Isn't it odd that the prosecution's case, proved to be so egregiously wrong in one half, has been so gloriously vindicated in the other?
> 
> The story of Mohammed Afzal is fascinating precisely because he is not Maqbool Butt. Yet his story too is inextricably entwined with the story of the Kashmir Valley. It's a story whose coordinates range far beyond the confines of courtrooms and the limited imagination of people who live in the secure heart of a self-declared 'superpower'. Mohammed Afzal's story has its origins in a war zone whose laws are beyond the pale of the fine arguments and delicate sensibilities of normal jurisprudence.
> 
> For all these reasons it is critical that we consider carefully the strange, sad, and utterly sinister story of the December 13 Parliament attack. It tells us a great deal about the way the world's largest 'democracy' really works. It connects the biggest things to the smallest. It traces the pathways that connect what happens in the shadowy grottos of our police stations to what goes on in the cold, snowy streets of Paradise Valley; from there to the impersonal malign furies that bring nations to the brink of nuclear war. It raises specific questions that deserve specific, and not ideological or rhetorical answers. What hangs in the balance is far more than the fate of one man.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, judicial objectivity exists. But it's a shy beast that lives deep in the labyrinth of our legal system. It takes whole teams of top lawyers to coax it out of its lair.
> 
> 
> On October 4 this year, I was one amongst a very small group of people who had gathered at Jantar Mantar in New Delhi to protest against Mohammed Afzal's death sentence. I was there because I believe Mohammed Afzal is only a pawn in a very sinister game. He's not the Dragon he's being made out to be, he's only the Dragon's footprint. And if the footprint is made to 'become extinct', we'll never know who the Dragon was. Is.
> 
> Not surprisingly, that afternoon there were more journalists and TV crews than there were protesters. Most of the attention was on Ghalib, Afzal's angelic looking little son. Kind-hearted people, not sure of what to do with a young boy whose father was going to the gallows, were plying him with ice-creams and cold drinks. As I looked around at the people gathered there, I noted a sad little fact. The convener of the protest, the small, stocky man who was nervously introducing the speakers and making the announcements, was S.A.R. Geelani, a young lecturer in Arabic Literature at Delhi University. Accused Number Three in the Parliament Attack case. He was arrested on December 14, 2001, a day after the attack, by the Special Cell of the Delhi Police. Though Geelani was brutally tortured in custody, though his familyhis wife, young children and brotherwere illegally detained, he refused to confess to a crime he hadn't committed. Of course you wouldn't know this if you read newspapers in the days following his arrest. They carried detailed descriptions of an entirely imaginary, non-existent confession. The Delhi Police portrayed Geelani as the evil mastermind of the Indian end of the conspiracy. Its scriptwriters orchestrated a hateful propaganda campaign against him, which was eagerly amplified and embellished by a hyper-nationalistic, thrill-seeking media. The police knew perfectly well that in criminal trials, judges are not supposed to take cognisance of media reports. So they knew that their entirely cold-blooded fabrication of a profile for these 'terrorists' would mould public opinion, and create a climate for the trial. But it would not come in for any legal scrutiny.
> 
> Here are some of the malicious, outright lies that appeared in the mainstream press:
> 
> 'Case Cracked: Jaish behind Attack'
> The Hindustan Times, Dec 16, 2001: Neeta Sharma and Arun Joshi
> 
> "In Delhi, the Special Cell detectives detained a Lecturer in Arabic, who teaches at Zakir Hussain College (Evening)...after it was established that he had received a call made by militants on his mobile phone." Another column in the same paper said: "Terrorists spoke to him before the attack and the lecturer made a phone call to Pakistan after the strike."
> 
> 'DU Lecturer was terror plan hub'
> The Times of India, Dec 17, 2001
> 
> "The attack on Parliament on December 13 was a joint operation of the Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) and Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) terrorist groups in which a Delhi University lecturer, Syed A.R. Gilani, was one of the key facilitators in Delhi, Police Commissioner Ajai Raj Sharma said on Sunday."
> 
> 'Varsity don guided fidayeen'
> The Hindu, Dec 17, 2001: Devesh K. Pandey
> 
> "During interrogation Geelani disclosed that he was in the know of the conspiracy since the day the 'fidayeen' attack was planned."
> 
> 'Don lectured on terror in free time'
> The Hindustan Times, Dec 17, 2001: Sutirtho Patranobis
> 
> "Investigations have revealed that by evening he was at the college teaching Arabic literature. In his free time, behind closed doors, either at his house or at Shaukat Hussain's, another suspect to be arrested, he took and gave lessons on terrorism..."
> 
> 'Professor's proceeds'
> The Hindustan Times, Dec 17, 2001
> 
> "Geelani recently purchased a house for 22 lakhs in West Delhi. Delhi Police are investigating how he came upon such a windfall...".
> 
> 'Aligarh se England tak chaatron mein aatankwaad ke beej bo raha tha Geelani (From Aligarh to England Geelani sowed the seeds of terrorism)
> Rashtriya Sahara, Dec 18, 2001: Sujit Thakur
> 
> Trans: "...According to sources and information collected by investigation agencies, Geelani has made a statement to the police that he was an agent of Jaish-e-Mohammed for a long time.... It was because of Geelani's articulation, style of working and sound planning that in 2000 Jaish-e-Mohammed gave him the responsibility of spreading intellectual terrorism."
> 
> 'Terror suspect frequent visitor to Pak mission'
> The Hindustan Times, Dec 21, 2001: Swati Chaturvedi
> 
> "During interrogation, Geelani has admitted that he had made frequent calls to Pakistan and was in touch with militants belonging to Jaish-e-Mohammed...Geelani said that he had been provided with funds by some members of the Jaish and told to buy two flats that could be used in militant operations."
> 
> 'Person of the Week'
> Sunday Times of India, Dec 23, 2001:
> 
> "A cellphone proved his undoing. Delhi University's Syed A.R. Geelani was the first to be arrested in the December 13 casea shocking reminder that the roots of terrorism go far and deep..."
> 
> Zee TV trumped them all. It produced a film called December 13th, a 'docudrama' that claimed to be the 'truth based on the police chargesheet'. (A contradiction in terms, wouldn't you say?) The film was privately screened for Prime Minister A.B. Vajpayee and Home Minister L.K. Advani. Both men applauded the film. Their approbation was widely reported by the media.
> 
> TV grab of one of the terrorists of the December 13, 2001, Parliament attack
> 
> The Supreme Court dismissed an appeal to stay the broadcast of the film on the grounds that judges are not influenced by the media. (Would the Supreme Court concede that even if judges are beyond being influenced by media reports, the 'collective conscience of the society' might not be?) December 13th was broadcast on Zee TV's national network a few days before the fast-track trial court sentenced Geelani, Afzal and Shaukat to death. Geelani eventually spent 18 months in jail, many of them in solitary confinement on death row.
> 
> He was released when the high court acquitted him and Afsan Guru. (Afsan, who was pregnant when she was arrested, had her baby in prison. Her experience broke her. She now suffers from a serious psychotic condition.) The Supreme Court upheld the acquittal. It found absolutely no evidence to link Geelani with the Parliament attack or with any terrorist organisation. Not a single newspaper or journalist or TV channel has seen fit to apologise to Geelani for their lies. But S.A.R.
> 
> Geelani's troubles didn't end there. His acquittal left the Special Cell with a plot, but no 'mastermind'. This, as we shall see, becomes something of a problem. More importantly, Geelani was a free man nowfree to meet the press, talk to lawyers, clear his name. On the evening of February 8, 2005, during the course of the final hearings at the Supreme Court, Geelani was making his way to his lawyer's house. A mysterious gunman appeared from the shadows and fired five bullets into his body. Miraculously, he survived. It was an unbelievable new twist to the story. Clearly somebody was worried about what he knew, what he would say.... One would imagine that the police would give this investigation top priority, hoping it would throw up some vital new leads into the Parliament attack case. Instead, the Special Cell treated Geelani as though he was the prime suspect in his own assassination. They confiscated his computer and took away his car. Hundreds of activists gathered outside the hospital and called for an enquiry into the assassination attempt, which would include an investigation into the Special Cell itself. (Of course that never happened. More than a year has passed, nobody shows any interest in pursuing the matter. Odd.)
> 
> So here he was now, S.A.R. Geelani, having survived this terrible ordeal, standing up in public at Jantar Mantar, saying that Mohammed Afzal didn't deserve a death sentence. How much easier it would be for him to keep his head down, stay at home. I was profoundly moved, humbled, by this quiet display of courage.
> 
> 
> 
> Think about it. On the basis of illegal confessions extracted under torture, hundreds of thousands of soldiers were moved to the Pakistan border at huge cost to the exchequer.
> 
> 
> Across the line from S.A.R. Geelani, in the jostling crowd of journalists and photographers, trying his best to look inconspicuous in a lemon T-shirt and gaberdine pants, holding a little tape-recorder, was another Gilani. Iftikhar Gilani. He had been in prison too. He was arrested and taken into police custody on June 9, 2002. At the time he was a reporter for the Jammu-based Kashmir Times. He was charged under the Official Secrets Act. His 'crime' was that he possessed obsolete information on Indian troop deployment in 'Indian-held Kashmir'. (This 'information', it turns out, was a published monograph by a Pakistani research institute, and was freely available on the Internet for anybody who wished to download it. ) Iftikhar Gilani's computer was seized. IB officials tampered with his hard drive, meddled with the downloaded file, changed the words 'Indian-held Kashmir' to 'Jammu and Kashmir' to make it sound like an Indian document, and added the words 'Only for Reference. Strictly Not For Circulation', to make it seem like a secret document smuggled out of the home ministry. The directorate general of military intelligencethough it had been given a photocopy of the monographignored repeated appeals from Iftikhar Gilani's counsel, kept quiet, and refused to clarify the matter for a whole six months.
> 
> 
> Ghalib, 7, Afzals son, with Yasin Malik and S.A.R. Geelani in Delhi on Oct 06
> 
> Once again the malicious lies put out by the Special Cell were obediently reproduced in the newspapers. Here are a few of the lies they told:
> 
> "Iftikhar Gilani, 35-year-old son-in-law of Hurriyat hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani, is believed to have admitted in a city court that he was an agent of Pakistan's spy agency." -- The Hindustan Times, June, 11, 2002: Neeta Sharma
> 
> "Iftikhar Gilani was the pin-point man of Syed Salahuddin of Hizbul Mujahideen. Investigations have revealed that Iftikhar used to pass information to Salahuddin about the moves of Indian security agencies. He had camouflaged his real motives behind his journalist's facade so well that it took years to unmask him, well-placed sources said." -- The Pioneer, Pramod Kumar Singh
> 
> "Geelani ke damaad ke ghar aaykar chhaapon mein behisaab sampati wa samwaidansheil dastaweiz baramad" (Enormous wealth and sensitive documents recovered from the house of Geelani's son-in-law during income tax raids) -- Hindustan, June 10, 2002
> 
> Never mind that the police chargesheet recorded a recovery of only Rs 3,450 from his house.
> 
> Meanwhile, other media reports said that he had a three-bedroom flat, an undisclosed income of Rs 22 lakh, had evaded income tax of Rs 79 lakh, that he and his wife were absconding to evade arrest.
> 
> 
> 
> Killing people and falsely identifying them as 'foreign terrorists', or falsely identifying dead people as 'foreign terrorists' is not uncommon among security forces.
> 
> 
> But arrested he was. In jail, Iftikhar Gilani was beaten, abjectly humiliated. In his book My Days In Prison he tells of how, among other things, he was made to clean the toilet with his shirt and then wear the same shirt for days. After six months of court arguments and lobbying by his colleagues, when it became obvious that if the case against him continued it would lead to serious embarrassment, he was released.
> 
> Here he was now. A free man, a reporter come to Jantar Mantar to cover a story. It occurred to me that S.A.R. Geelani, Iftikhar Gilani and Mohammed Afzal would have been in Tihar jail at the same time. (Along with scores of other less well known Kashmiris whose stories we may never learn.)
> 
> It can and will be argued that the cases of both S.A.R. Geelani and Iftikhar Gilani serve only to demonstrate the objectivity of the Indian judicial system and its capacity for self-correction, they do not discredit it. That's only partly true. Both Iftikhar Gilani and S.A.R. Geelani are fortunate to be Delhi-based Kashmiris with a community of articulate, middle-class peers; journalists and university teachers, who knew them well and rallied around them in their time of need. S.A.R. Geelani's lawyer Nandita Haksar put together an All India Defence Committee for S.A.R. Geelani (of which I was a member). There was a coordinated campaign by activists, lawyers and journalists to rally behind Geelani. Well-known lawyers Ram Jethmalani, K.G. Kannabiran, Vrinda Grover represented him. They showed up the case for what it wasa pack of absurd assumptions, suppositions, and outright lies, bolstered by fabricated evidence. So of course judicial objectivity exists. But it's a shy beast that lives somewhere deep in the labyrinth of our legal system. It shows itself rarely. It takes whole teams of top lawyers to coax it out of its lair and make it come out and play. It's what in newspaper-speak would be called a Herculean task. Mohammed Afzal did not have Hercules on his side.
> 
> For five months, from the time he was arrested to the day the police charge-sheet was filed, Mohammed Afzal, lodged in a high-security prison, had no legal defence, no legal advice. No top lawyers, no defence committee (in India or Kashmir), and no campaign. Of all the four accused, he was the most vulnerable. His case was far more complicated than Geelani's. Significantly, during much of this time, Afzal's younger brother Hilal was illegally detained by the Special Operations Group (SOG) in Kashmir. He was released after the chargesheet was filed. (This is a piece of the puzzle that will only fall into place as the story unfolds.)
> 
> In a serious lapse of procedure, on December 20, 2001, the investigating officer, Asst Commissioner of Police (ACP) Rajbir Singh (affectionately known as Delhi's 'encounter specialist' for the number of 'terrorists' he has killed in 'encounters'), called a press conference at the Special Cell. Mohammed Afzal was made to 'confess' before the media. Deputy commissioner of police (DCP) Ashok Chand told the press that Afzal had already confessed to the police. This turned out to be untrue. Afzal's formal confession to the police took place only the next day (after which he continued to remain in police custody and vulnerable to torture, another serious procedural lapse). In his media 'confession' Afzal incriminated himself in the Parliament attack completely.
> 
> 
> From left; Shaukat Guru, S.A.R. Geelani and Mohammed Afzal in Delhi, 2001
> 
> During the course of this 'media confession' a curious thing happened. In an answer to a direct question, Afzal clearly said that Geelani had nothing to do with the attack and was completely innocent. At this point, ACP Rajbir Singh shouted at him and forced him to shut up, and requested the media not to carry this part of Afzal's 'confession'. And they obeyed! The story came out only three months later when the television channel Aaj Tak re-broadcast the 'confession' in a programme called Hamle Ke Sau Din (Hundred Days of the Attack) and somehow kept this part in. Meanwhile in the eyes of the general publicwho know little about the law and criminal procedureAfzal's public 'confession' only confirmed his guilt. The verdict of the 'collective conscience of society' would not have been hard to second guess.
> 
> 
> 
> Afzal's lawyer did not once visit his client in jail to take instructions. He did not summon a single witness in Afzal's defence, barely cross-examined the prosecution's witnesses.
> 
> 
> The day after this 'media' confession, Afzal's 'official' confession was extracted from him. The flawlessly structured, perfectly fluent narrative dictated in articulate English to DCP Ashok Chand (in the DCP's words, "he kept on narrating and I kept on writing") was delivered in a sealed envelope to a judicial magistrate. In this confession, Afzal, now the sheet-anchor of the prosecution's case, weaves a masterful tale that connected Ghazi Baba, Maulana Masood Azhar, a man called Tariq, and the five dead terrorists; their equipment, arms and ammunition, home ministry passes, a laptop, and fake ID cards; detailed lists of exactly how many kilos of what chemical he bought from where, the exact ratio in which they were mixed to make explosives; and the exact times at which he made and received calls on which mobile number. (For some reason, by then Afzal had also changed his mind about Geelani and implicated him completely in the conspiracy.)
> 
> Each point of the 'confession' corresponded perfectly with the evidence that the police had already gathered. In other words, Afzal's confessional statement slipped perfectly into the version that the police had already offered the press days ago, like Cinderella's foot into the glass slipper. (If it were a film, you could say it was a screenplay, which came with its own box of props. Actually, as we know now, it was made into a film. Zee TV owes Afzal some royalty payments. )
> 
> Eventually, both the high court and the Supreme Court set aside Afzal's confession citing 'lapses and violations of procedural safeguards'. But Afzal's confession somehow survives, the phantom keystone in the prosecution's case. And before it was technically and legally set aside, the confessional document had already served a major extra-legal purpose: On December 21, 2001, when the Government of India launched its war effort against Pakistan it said it had 'incontrovertible evidence' of Pakistan's involvement. Afzal's confession was the only 'proof' of Pakistan's involvement that the government had! Afzal's confession. And the sticker-manifesto. Think about it. On the basis of this illegal confession extracted under torture, hundreds of thousands of soldiers were moved to the Pakistan border at huge cost to the public exchequer, and the subcontinent devolved into a game of nuclear brinkmanship in which the whole world was held hostage.
> 
> Big Whispered Question: Could it have been the other way around? Did the confession precipitate the war, or did the need for a war precipitate the need for the confession?
> 
> 
> 
> The callousness with which the investigations were carried out demonstrate a worrying belief that they wouldn't be 'found out', and if they were, it wouldn't matter very much.
> 
> 
> Later, when Afzal's confession was set aside by the higher courts, all talk of Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Taiba ceased. The only other link to Pakistan was the identity of the five dead fidayeen. Mohammed Afzal, still in police custody, identified them as Mohammed, Rana, Raja, Hamza and Haider. The home minister said they "looked like Pakistanis", the police said they were Pakistanis, the trial court judge said they were Pakistanis. And there the matter rests. Had we been told that their names were Happy, Bouncy, Lucky, Jolly and Kidingamani from Scandinavia, we would have had to accept that too. We still don't know who they really are, or where they're from. Is anyone curious? Doesn't look like it. The high court said the "identity of the five deceased thus stands established. Even otherwise it makes no difference. What is relevant is the association of the accused with the said five persons and not their names."
> 
> In his Statement of the Accused (which, unlike the confession, is made in court and not police custody) Afzal says: "I had not identified any terrorist. Police told me the names of terrorists and forced me to identify them." But by then it was too late for him. On the first day of the trial, the lawyer appointed by the trial court judge agreed to accept Afzal's identification of the bodies and the postmortem reports as undisputed evidence without formal proof! This baffling move was to have serious consequences for Afzal. To quote from the Supreme Court judgement, "The first circumstance against the accused Afzal is that Afzal knew who the deceased terrorists were. He identified the dead bodies of the deceased terrorists. On this aspect the evidence remains unshattered."
> 
> Of course it's possible that the dead terrorists were foreign militants. But it is just as possible that they were not. Killing people and falsely identifying them as 'foreign terrorists', or falsely identifying dead people as 'foreign terrorists', or falsely identifying living people as terrorists, is not uncommon among the police or security forces either in Kashmir or even on the streets of Delhi.
> 
> 
> Bodies of the Chhittisinghpura terrorists being exhumed
> The best known among the many well-documented cases in Kashmir, one that went on to become an international scandal, is the killing that took place after the Chhittisinghpura massacre. On the night of April 20, 2000, just before the US President Bill Clinton arrived in New Delhi, 35 Sikhs were killed in the village of Chhittisinghpura by 'unidentified gunmen' wearing Indian Army uniforms. (In Kashmir many people suspected that Indian security forces were behind the massacre.) Five days later the SOG and the 7th Rashtriya Rifles, a counter-insurgency unit of the army, killed five people in a joint operation outside a village called Pathribal. The next morning they announced that the men were the Pakistan-based foreign militants who had killed the Sikhs in Chhittisinghpura. The bodies were found burned and disfigured. Under their (unburned) army uniforms, they were in ordinary civilian clothes. It turned out that they were all local people, rounded up from Anantnag district and brutally killed in cold blood.
> 
> There are others:
> On October 20, 2003, the Srinagar newspaper Al-safa printed a picture of a 'Pakistani militant' who the 18 Rashtriya Rifles claimed they had killed while he was trying to storm an army camp. A baker in Kupwara, Wali Khan, saw the picture and recognised it as his son, Farooq Ahmed Khan, who had been picked up by soldiers in a Gypsy two months earlier. His body was finally exhumed more than a year later.
> 
> On April 20, 2004, the 18 Rashtriya Rifles posted in the Lolab valley claimed it had killed four foreign militants in a fierce encounter. It later turned out that all four were ordinary labourers from Jammu, hired by the army and taken to Kupwara. An anonymous letter tipped off the labourers' families who travelled to Kupwara and eventually had the bodies exhumed.
> 
> 
> 
> It was a chilling moment in court. Akbar, the J&K cop who'd signed Afzal's Seizure Memo, told him in Kashmiri that "his family was alright". Afzal knew this was a veiled threat.
> 
> 
> On November 9, 2004, the army showcased 47 surrendered 'militants' to the press at Nagrota, Jammu, in the presence of the General Officer Commanding XVI, Corps and the Director General of Police, J&K. The J&K police later found that 27 of them were just unemployed men who had been given fake names and fake aliases and promised government jobs in return for playing their part in the charade.
> 
> These are just a few quick examples to illustrate the fact that in the absence of any other evidence, the police's word is just not good enough.
> 
> The hearings in the fast-track trial court began in May 2002. Let's not forget the climate in which the trial took place. The frenzy over the 9/11 attacks was still in the air. The US was gloating over its victory in Afghanistan. Gujarat was convulsed by communal frenzy. A few months previously, coach S-6 of the Sabarmati Express had been set on fire and 58 Hindu pilgrims had been burned alive inside. As 'revenge' in an orchestrated pogrom, more than 2,000 Muslims were publicly butchered and more than 1,50,000 driven from their homes.
> 
> For Afzal, everything that could go wrong went wrong. He was incarcerated in a high-security prison, with no access to the outside world, and no money to hire a lawyer professionally. Three weeks into the trial the lawyer appointed by the court asked to be discharged from the case because she had now been professionally hired to be on the team of lawyers for S.A.R. Geelani's defence. The court appointed her junior, a lawyer with very little experience, to represent Afzal. He did not once visit his client in jail to take instructions. He did not summon a single witness for Afzal's defence and barely cross-questioned any of the prosecution witnesses. Five days after he was appointed, on July 8, Afzal asked the court for another lawyer and gave the court a list of lawyers whom he hoped the court might hire for him. Each of them refused. (Given the frenzy of propaganda in the media, it was hardly surprising. At a later stage of the trial, when senior advocate Ram Jethmalani agreed to represent Geelani, Shiv Sena mobs ransacked his Bombay office.) The judge expressed his inability to do anything about this, and gave Afzal the right to cross-examine witnesses. It's astonishing for the judge to expect a layperson to be able cross-examine witnesses in a criminal trial. It's a virtually impossible task for someone who does not have a sophisticated understanding of criminal law, including new laws that had just been passed, like POTA, and the amendments to the Evidence Act and the Telegraph Act. Even experienced lawyers were having to work overtime to bring themselves up to date.
> 
> The case against Afzal was built up in the trial court on the strength of the testimonies of almost 80 prosecution witnesses: landlords, shopkeepers, technicians from cell-phone companies, the police themselves.
> This was a crucial period of the trial, when the legal foundation of the case was being laid. It required meticulous back-breaking legal work in which evidence needed to be amassed and put on record, witnesses for the defence summoned and testimonies from prosecution witnesses cross-questioned. Even if the verdict of the trial court went against the accused (trial courts are notoriously conservative), the evidence could then be worked upon by lawyers in the higher courts. Through this absolutely critical period, Afzal went virtually undefended. It was at this stage that the bottom fell out of his case, and the noose tightened around his neck.
> 
> Even still, during the trial, the skeletons began to clatter out of the Special Cell's cupboard in an embarrassing heap. It became clear that the accumulation of lies, fabrications, forged documents and serious lapses in procedure began from the very first day of the investigation. While the high court and Supreme Court judgements have pointed these things out, they have just wagged an admonitory finger at the police, or occasionally called it a 'disturbing feature', which is a disturbing feature in itself. At no point in the trial has the police been seriously reprimanded, leave alone penalised. In fact, almost every step of the way, the Special Cell displayed an egregious disregard for procedural norms. The shoddy callousness with which the investigations were carried out demonstrate a worrying belief that they wouldn't be 'found out,' and if they were, it wouldn't matter very much. Their confidence does not seem to have been misplaced.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that when there is this whole murky universe begging to be revealed, our TV channels are busy staging hollow debates between uninformed people and grasping politicians.
> 
> 
> There is fudging in almost every part of the investigation.
> 
> Consider the Time and Place of the Arrests and Seizures: The Delhi Police said that Afzal and Shaukat were arrested in Srinagar based on information given to them by Geelani following his arrest. The court records show that the message to look out for Shaukat and Afzal was flashed to the Srinagar police on December 15 at 5.45 am. But according to the Delhi Police's records Geelani was only arrested in Delhi on December 15 at 10 amfour hours after they had started looking for Afzal and Shaukat in Srinagar. They haven't been able to explain this discrepancy. The high court judgement puts it on record that the police version contains a 'material contradiction' and cannot be true. It goes down as a 'disturbing feature.' Why the Delhi Police needed to lie remains unasked, and unanswered.
> 
> When the police arrest somebody, procedure requires them to have public witnesses for the arrest who sign an Arrest Memo and a Seizure Memo for what they may have 'seized' from those who have been arrestedgoods, cash, documents, whatever. The police claim they arrested Afzal and Shaukat together on December 15 at 11 am in Srinagar. They say they 'seized' the truck the two men were fleeing in (it was registered in the name of Shaukat's wife). They also say they seized a Nokia mobile phone, a laptop and Rs 10 lakh from Afzal. In his Statement of the Accused, Afzal says he was arrested at a bus stop in Srinagar and that no laptop, mobile phone or money was 'seized' from him.
> 
> Scandalously, the Arrest Memos for both Afzal and Shaukat have been signed in Delhi, by Bismillah, Geelani's younger brother, who was at the time being held in illegal confinement at the Lodhi Road Police Station. Meanwhile, the two witnesses who signed the seizure memo for the phone, the laptop and the Rs 10 lakh are both from the J&K Police. One of them is Head Constable Mohammed Akbar (Prosecution Witness 62) who, as we shall see later, is no stranger to Mohammad Afzal, and is not just any old policeman who happened to be passing by. Even by the J&K Police's own admission they first located Afzal and Shaukat in Parimpura Fruit Mandi. For reasons they don't state, the police didn't arrest them there. They say they followed them to a less public placewhere there were no public witnesses.
> 
> So here's another serious inconsistency in the prosecution's case. Of this the high court judgement says 'the time of arrest of accused persons has been seriously dented'. Shockingly, it is at this contested time and place of arrest that the police claim to have recovered the most vital evidence that implicates Afzal in the conspiracy: the mobile phone and the laptop. Once again, in the matter of the date and time of the arrests, and in the alleged seizure of the incriminating laptop and the Rs 10 lakh, we have only the word of the police, against the word of a 'terrorist'.
> 
> 
> 
> Unmoor yourself conceptually, if only for a moment, from the 'Police is Good/Terrorists are Evil' ideology. The evidence, minus its ideological trappings, opens up terrifying possibilities.
> 
> 
> The Seizures Continued: The seized laptop, the police said, contained the files that created the fake home ministry pass and the fake identity cards. It contained no other useful information. They claimed that Afzal was carrying it to Srinagar in order to return it to Ghazi Baba. The Investigating Officer, ACP Rajbir Singh, said that the hard disk of the computer had been sealed on January 16, 2002 (a whole month after the seizure). But the computer shows that it was accessed even after that date. The courts have considered this but taken no cognisance of it. (On a speculative note, isn't it strange that the only incriminating information found on the computer were the files used to make the fake passes and ID cards? And a Zee TV film clip showing the Parliament Building. If other incriminating information had been deleted, why wasn't this? And why did Ghazi Baba, Chief of Operations of an international terrorist organisation, need a laptopwith bad artwork on it so urgently?)
> 
> Consider the Mobile phone call records: Stared at for long enough, a lot of the 'hard evidence' produced by the Special Cell begins to look dubious. The backbone of the prosecution's case has to do with the recovery of mobile phones, SIM cards, computerised call records, and the testimonies of officials from cellphone companies and shopkeepers who sold the phones and SIM cards to Afzal and his accomplices. The call records that were produced to show that Shaukat, Afzal , Geelani and Mohammad (one of the dead militants) had all been in touch with each other very close to the time of the attack were uncertified computer printouts, not even copies of primary documents. They were outputs of the billing system stored as text files that could have been easily doctored and at any time. For example, the call records that were produced show that two calls had been made at exactly the same time from the same SIM card, but from separate handsets with separate IMEI numbers. This means that either the SIM card had been cloned or the call records were doctored.
> 
> Consider the SIM card: To prop up its version of the story, the prosecution relies heavily on one particular mobile phone number9811489429. The police say it was Afzal's numberthe number that connected Afzal to Mohammad, Afzal to Shaukat, and Shaukat to Geelani. The police also say that this number was written on the back of the identity tags found on the dead terrorists. Pretty convenient. Lost Kitten! Call Mom at 9811489429. (It's worth mentioning that normal procedure requires evidence gathered at the scene of a crime to be sealed. The ID cards were never sealed and remained in the custody of the police and could have been tampered with at any time.)
> 
> A suspected militant gunned down by the police in Ansal Plaza, Delhi, 2002
> The only evidence the police have that 9811489429 was indeed Afzal's number is Afzal's confession, which as we have seen is no evidence at all. The SIM card has never been found. The police produced a prosecution witness, Kamal Kishore, who identified Afzal and said that he had sold him a Motorola phone and a SIM card on December 4, 2001. However, the call records the prosecution relied on show that that particular SIM card was already in use on the November 6, a whole month before Afzal is supposed to have bought it! So either the witness is lying, or the call records are false. The high court glosses over this discrepancy by saying that Kamal Kishore had only said that he sold Afzal a SIM card, not this particular SIM card. The Supreme Court judgement loftily says "The SIM card should necessarily have been sold to Afzal prior to 4.12.2001." And that, my friends, is that.
> 
> Consider the Identification of the Accused: A series of prosecution witnesses, most of them shopkeepers, identified Afzal as the man to whom they had sold various things: ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, sulphur, a Sujata mixer-grinder, packets of dry fruit and so on. Normal procedure would require these shopkeepers to pick Afzal out from a number of people in a test identification parade. This didn't happen. Instead Afzal was identified by them when he 'led' the police to these shops while he was in police custody and introduced to the witnesses as an Accused in the Parliament Attack. (Are we allowed to speculate about whether he led the police or the police led him to the shops? After all he was still in their custody, still vulnerable to torture. If his confession under these circumstances is legally suspect, then why not all of this?)
> 
> 
> 
> Even if we don't believe Afzal, given what we do know about the trial and the role of the Special Cell, it is inexcusable not to look in the direction he's pointing.
> 
> 
> The judges have pondered the violation of these procedural norms but have not taken them very seriously. They said that they did not see why ordinary members of the public would have reason to falsely implicate an innocent person. But does this hold true, given the orgy of media propaganda that ordinary members of the public were subjected to, particularly in this case? Does this hold true, if you take into account the fact that ordinary shopkeepers, particularly those who sell electronic goods without receipts in the 'grey market', are completely beholden to the Delhi Police?
> 
> None of the inconsistencies that I have written about so far are the result of spectacular detective work on my part. A lot of them are documented in an excellent book called December 13th: Terror Over Democracy by Nirmalangshu Mukherji; in two reports (Trial of Errors and Balancing Act) published by the Peoples' Union for Democratic Rights, Delhi; and most important of all, in the three thick volumes of judgements of the trial court, the high court and the Supreme Court. All these are public documents, lying on my desk. Why is it that when there is this whole murky universe begging to be revealed, our TV channels are busy staging hollow debates between uninformed people and grasping politicians? Why is it that apart from a few sporadic independent commentators, our newspapers carry front-page stories about who the hangman is going to be, and macabre details about the length (60 metres) and weight (3.75 kg) of the rope that will be used to hang Mohammed Afzal (Indian Express, October 16, 2006). Shall we pause for a moment to say a few hosannas for the Free Press?
> 
> It's not an easy thing for most people to do, but if you can, unmoor yourself conceptually, if only for a moment, from the "Police is Good/Terrorists are Evil" ideology. The evidence on offer minus its ideological trappings opens up a chasm of terrifying possibilities. It points in directions which most of us would prefer not to look.
> 
> The prize for the Most Ignored Legal Document in the entire case goes to the Statement of the Accused Mohammed Afzal under Section 313 of the Criminal Procedure Code. In this document, the evidence against him is put to him by the court in the form of questions. He can either accept the evidence or dispute it, and has the opportunity to put down his version of his story in his own words. In Afzal's case, given that he has never had any real opportunity to be heard, this document tells his story in his voice.
> 
> In this document, Afzal accepts certain charges made against him by the prosecution. He accepts that he met a man called Tariq. He accepts that Tariq introduced him to a man called Mohammad. He accepts that he helped Mohammad come to Delhi and helped him to buy a second-hand white Ambassador car. He accepts that Mohammad was one of the five fidayeen who was killed in the Attack. The important thing about Afzal's Statement of the Accused is that he makes no effort to completely absolve himself or claim innocence. But he puts his actions in a context that is devastating. Afzal's statement explains the peripheral part he played in the Parliament attack. But it also ushers us towards an understanding of some possible reasons for why the investigation was so shoddy, why it pulls up short at the most crucial junctures and why it is vital that we do not dismiss this as just incompetence and shoddiness. Even if we don't believe Afzal, given what we do know about the trial and the role of the Special Cell, it is inexcusable not to look in the direction he's pointing. He gives specific informationnames, places, dates. (This could not have been easy, given that his family, his brothers, his wife and young son live in Kashmir and are easy meat for the people he mentions in his deposition.)
> 
> In Afzal's words:
> 
> 
> 
> Truth, in Kashmir, is probably more dangerous than anything else. The deeper you dig, the worse it gets.
> 
> 
> "I live in Sopre J&K and in the year 2000 when I was there Army used to harass me almost daily, then said once a week. One Raja Mohan Rai used to tell me that I should give information to him about militants. I was a surrendered militant and all militants have to mark Attendance at Army Camp every Sunday. I was not being physically torture by me. He used to only just threatened me. I used to give him small information which I used to gather from newspaper, in order to save myself. In June/ July 2000 I migrated from my village and went to town Baramullah. I was having a shop of distribution of Surgical instruments which I was running on commission basis. One day when I was going on my scooter S.T.F (State Task Force) people came and picked me up and they continuously tortured me for five days. Somebody had given information to S.T.F that I was again indulging in militant activities. That person was confronted with me and released in my presence. Then I was kept by them in custody for about 25 days and I got myself released by paying Rs 1 lakh. Special Cell People had confirmed this incident. Thereafter I was given a certificate by the S.T.F and they made me a Special Police Officer for six months. They were knowing I will not work for them. Tariq met me in Palhalan S.T.F camp where I was in custody of S.T.F. Tariq met me later on in Sri Nagar and told me he was basically working for S.T.F. I told him I was also working for S.T.F. Mohammad who was killed in Attack on Parliament was along with Tariq. Tariq told me he was from Keran sector of Kashmir and he told me that I should take Mohammad to Delhi as Mohammad has to go out of country from Delhi after some time. I don't know why I was caught by the police of Sri Nagar on 15.12.2001. I was boarding bus at Sri Nagar bus stop, for going home when police caught me. Witness Akbar who had deposed in the court that he had apprehended Shaukat and me in Sri Nagar had conducted a raid at my shop about a year prior to December 2001 and told me that I was selling fake surgical instruments and he took Rs 5000/- from me. I was tortured at Special Cell and one Bhoop Singh even compelled me to take urine and I saw family of S. A.R. Geelani also there, Geelani was in miserable condition. He was not in a position to stand. We were taken to Doctor for examination but instructions used to be issued that we have to tell Doctor that everything was alright with a threat that if we do not do so we be again tortured."
> 
> He then asks the court's permission to add some more information.
> 
> "Mohammad the slain terrorist of Parliament attack had come along with me from Kashmir. The person who handed him over to me is Tariq. Tariq is working with Security Force and S.T.F JK Police. Tariq told me that if I face any problem due to Mohammad he will help me as he knew the security forces and S.T.F very well... Tariq had told me that I just have to drop Mohammad at Delhi and do nothing else. And if I would not take Mohammad with me to Delhi I would be implicated in some other case. I under these circumstances brought Mohammad to Delhi under a compulsion without knowing he was a terrorist."
> 
> So now we have a picture emerging of someone who could be a key player. 'Witness Akbar' (PW 62), Mohd Akbar, Head Constable, Parimpora Police Station, the J&K policeman who signed the Seizure Memo at the time of Afzal's arrest. In a letter to Sushil Kumar, his Supreme Court lawyer, Afzal describes a chilling moment at one point in the trial. In the court, Witness Akbar, who had come from Srinagar to testify about the Seizure Memo, reassured Afzal in Kashmiri that "his family was alright". Afzal immediately recognised that this was a veiled threat. Afzal also says that after he was arrested in Srinagar he was taken to the Parimpora police station and beaten, and plainly told that his wife and family would suffer dire consequences if he did not co-operate. (We already know that Afzal's brother Hilal had been held in illegal detention by the SOG during some crucial months.)
> 
> In this letter, Afzal describes how he was tortured in the STF campwith electrodes on his genitals and chillies and petrol in his anus. He mentions the name of Dy Superintendent of Police Dravinder Singh who said he needed him to do a 'small job' for him in Delhi. He also says that some of the phone numbers mentioned in the chargesheet can be traced to an STF camp in Kashmir.
> 
> 
> Protests against Afzals hanging in Srinagar
> 
> It is Afzal's story that gives us a glimpse into what life is really like in the Kashmir Valley. It's only in the Noddy Book version we read about in our newspapers that Security Forces battle Militants and innocent Kashmiris are caught in the cross-fire. In the adult version, Kashmir is a valley awash with militants, renegades, security forces, double-crossers, informers, spooks, blackmailers, blackmailees, extortionists, spies, both Indian and Pakistani intelligence agencies, human rights activists, NGOs and unimaginable amounts of unaccounted-for money and weapons.
> 
> There are not always clear lines that demarcate the boundaries between all these things and people, it's not easy to tell who is working for whom.
> 
> Truth, in Kashmir, is probably more dangerous than anything else. The deeper you dig, the worse it gets. At the bottom of the pit is the SOG and STF that Afzal talks about. These are the most ruthless, indisciplined and dreaded elements of the Indian security apparatus in Kashmir. Unlike the more formal forces, they operate in a twilight zone where policemen, surrendered militants, renegades and common criminals do business. They prey upon the local population, particularly in rural Kashmir. Their primary victims are the thousands of young Kashmiri men who rose up in revolt in the anarchic uprising of the early '90s and have since surrendered and are trying to live normal lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Afzal's surrender was treated as a crime and his life became a hell. Can Kashmiri youth be blamed if the lesson they draw from his story is that it would be insane to surrender?
> 
> 
> In 1989, when Afzal crossed the border to be trained as a militant, he was only 20 years old. He returned with no training, disillusioned with his experience. He put down his gun and enrolled himself in Delhi University. In 1993 without ever having been a practising militant, he voluntarily surrendered to the Border Security Force (BSF). Illogically enough, it was at this point that his nightmares began. His surrender was treated as a crime and his life became a hell. Can young Kashmiri men be blamed if the lesson they draw from Afzal's story is that it would be not just stupid, but insane to surrender their weapons and submit to the vast range of myriad cruelties the Indian State has on offer for them?
> 
> The story of Mohammed Afzal has enraged Kashmiris because his story is their story too. What has happened to him could have happened, is happening and has happened to thousands of young Kashmiri men and their families. The only difference is that their stories are played out in the dingy bowels of joint interrogation centres, army camps and police stations where they have been burned, beaten, electrocuted, blackmailed and killed, their bodies thrown out of the backs of trucks for passers-by to find. Whereas Afzal's story is being performed like a piece of medieval theatre on the national stage, in the clear light of day, with the legal sanction of a 'fair trial', the hollow benefits of a 'free press' and all the pomp and ceremony of a so-called democracy.
> 
> If Afzal is hanged, we'll never know the answer to the real question: Who attacked the Indian Parliament? Was it the Lashkar-e-Toiba? The Jaish-e-Mohammed? Or does the answer lie somewhere deep in the secret heart of this country that we all live in and love and hate in our own beautiful, intricate, various, and thorny ways?
> 
> There ought to be a Parliamentary Inquiry into the December 13 attack on Parliament. While the inquiry is pending, Afzal's family in Sopore must be protected because they are vulnerable hostages in this bizarre story.
> 
> To hang Mohammed Afzal without knowing what really happened is a misdeed that will not easily be forgotten. Or forgiven. Nor should it be.
> 
> Notwithstanding the 10% Growth Rate.



'And His Life Should Become Extinct' | Arundhati Roy

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## KRAIT

Tiwari making typical Political statement that UPA govt did this, did that.

It was Supreme Court's decision. Not UPA's decision. This f'kers Congress.

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## notsuperstitious

Roy didn't have to write a book about it. If she kept it short, some of us might read it for entertainment. But then she probably gets paid by the number of words.

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## KRAIT

Bringing Gujrat. WTF.

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## SpArK

Ajmal Kasab was hanged before the winter session of parliament. Afzal Guru, before the budget session. 

Who to hang before monsoon session?

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## KS

While IBNLive and Barkha Dutt are repeatedy bringing in SAR Geelani (co-accused and later acquitted) knowing fully well he is going to go on a bashing spree, Arnab Goswami says will NOT call him or any of the other accused for their views.

==

Good move Arnab

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## Spring Onion

Congress did it again and BJP/Saffronies lost another brownie point scoring object



SpArK said:


> Ajmal Kasab was hanged before the winter session of parliament. Afzal Guru, before the budget session.
> 
> Who to hang before monsoon session?



Killers of Indiraaaaa  but wait NO BJP wants Sonia or Rahul to be hanged for Sikhs' killings right?


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## KRAIT

Spring Onion said:


> Congress did it again and BJP/Saffronies lost another brownie point scoring object
> Killers of Indiraaaaa  but wait NO BJP wants Sonia or Rahul to be hanged for Sikhs' killings right?


Just remain outside this thread. Better post a thread on 10 people killed in bomb blast yesterday in your country.

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## dravidianhero

KRAIT said:


> @dravidianhero Control bhai. Don't generalize any religion or community.



ok mate i will calm down..but u cant stop from generalizing..no community is uniform..but generalization is done on how the majority of a community act..majority of muslims in india want to make india an islamic country..they want freedom for kashmir..they cheer osama and kasab(remember recent akbar's speech when ppl were cheering him when he said we will kill all hindus)..I dont know how much islam you know brother,but i can say even many aleems would not have as much knowledge of islam and its hostory as me..anyway,i will cool down.

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## KRAIT

KS said:


> While IBNLive and Barkha Dutt are repeatedy bringing in SAR Geelani (co-accused and later acquitted) knowing fully well he is going to go on a bashing spree, Arnab Goswami says will NOT call him or any of the other accused for their views.
> ==
> Good move Arnab


He called Human rights activist for Afzal, Pro Terrorist, Anti-India. Respect to the guy.

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## Cherokee

Spring Onion said:


> Congress did it again and BJP/Saffronies lost another brownie point scoring object
> 
> 
> 
> Killers of Indiraaaaa  but wait NO BJP wants Sonia or Rahul to be hanged for Sikhs' killings right?




I hope all these things happen , Truly  . I am with you on this .  . Godhra was nothing compared to Sikh pogrom in Delhi .

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## KRAIT

SpArK said:


> Ajmal Kasab was hanged before the winter session of parliament. Afzal Guru, before the budget session.
> Who to hang before monsoon session?


Operation Geronimo 2.0

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## Bang Galore

I think it is a bit silly to talk about 72(or any other number) virgins in this case. Unlike Kasab, this cannot be called a case of pure Islamic terrorism, it is connected to & should be regarded as part of Kashmiri terrorism even if the guy is Muslim. There is no sense in talking about rewards in heaven like there won't be when Rajiv Gandhi's killers or Beant Singh's killer get the same treatment.

_Btw, I like the new GoI policy of carrying out these executions without drama. I bet quite a few on the death row including the cases I mentioned will not be feeling too good about this._

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## nair

Well done GOI..... Though we should not celebrate death of a human being..... But then there are some exceptions..... 

I like the way GOI done this one

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## scorpionx

KRAIT said:


> He called Human rights activist for Afzal, Pro Terrorist, Anti-India. Respect to the guy.



Arnav G is an exception in todays fuddu journalism

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## A.Rafay

He was a poor fruit seller he always denied the attacks, this is indian Propaganda, he was also also not one of the attackers, all attackers were killed. He was deliberately arrested and inocent fruit seller has been hanged by india based on propaganda.


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## walwal

dravidianhero said:


> ok mate i will calm down..but u cant stop from generalizing..no community is uniform..but generalization is done on how the majority of a community act..*majority* of muslims in india want to make india an islamic country..they want freedom for kashmir..they cheer osama and kasab(remember recent akbar's speech when *ppl were cheering him* when he said we will kill all hindus)..I dont know how much islam you know brother,but i can say even many aleems would not have as much knowledge of islam and its hostory as me..anyway,i will cool down.



Nope. Lets not generalise on this bolded part. Those cheerleaders were/ are bunch of illiterate and misguided retards who get swayed very easily on sentiments. Same lies on other side as well. 

I did notice a couple of guys (from Hyderabad)on a FB group this morning who started crying river 'coz this man was hanged. But then, these guys have clear affinity towards MIM, typical of razakars who thump their chest of always being victimised.


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## Punjabbi Munda

Spring Onion said:


> Congress did it again and BJP/Saffronies lost another brownie point scoring object
> 
> 
> 
> Killers of Indiraaaaa  but wait NO BJP wants Sonia or Rahul to be hanged for Sikhs' killings right?


Another blast
Care about your own home.

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## KRAIT

For all those who call Afzal innocent, this is the reason your country is being cornered by so many nations. 

Conspiracy theories everywhere.

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## nair

Spring Onion said:


> Congress did it again and BJP/Saffronies lost another brownie point scoring object
> 
> 
> 
> Killers of Indiraaaaa  *but wait NO BJP wants Sonia or Rahul to be hanged for Sikhs' killings right?*




My dear friend...I am sure you just woke up from sleep..... take some time have a cup of tea...... then lets discuss...

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## KS

Bang Galore said:


> I think it is a bit silly to talk about 72(or any other number) virgins in this case. Unlike Kasab, this cannot be called a case of pure Islamic terrorism, it is connected to & should be regarded as part of Kashmiri terrorism even if the guy is Muslim. There is no sense in talking about rewards in heaven like there won't be when Rajiv Gandhi's killers or Beant Singh's killer get the same treatment.
> 
> _Btw, I like the new GoI policy of carrying out these executions without drama. I bet quite a few on the death row including the cases I mentioned will not be feeling too good about this._



The terrorism in Kashmir has long acquired religious color. And to think Kasab & co too came only to take revenge for Kashmir, or atleast they say so.

Regarding the others, it would not be as easy as compared to this. Considering that BJP does not care about them _(infact it would not want the awkward position of having to walk a tight rope between its policies and its ally SAD)_ and Congress would not want to upset the cart in the run-up to the elections in which both Punjab and TN contribute significant number of MPs.

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## Spring Onion

KRAIT said:


> Just remain outside this thread. Better post a thread on 10 people killed in bomb blast yesterday in your country.



why dont to ypu post a thread on 4 rape cases in last two days in India. or that needs a gut you Indians on this forum lack or lack inheritently.


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## scorpionx

Spring Onion said:


> why dont to ypu post a thread on 4 rape cases in last two days in India. or that needs a gut you Indians on this forum lack or lack inheritently.



Guts? seriously? isn't it a banned topic that some of your countrymen search every second of a day?

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## KRAIT

Rape is a Banned Topic. Webby banned it again.

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## Spring Onion

*Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew imposed in Kashmir valley, NH closed to avert trouble*

TNN | Feb 9, 2013, 09.40 AM IST


SRINAGAR: Entire Kashmir valley has been placed under strict curfew in the wake of the hanging of Parliament attack convict Afzal Guru in the wee hours of Saturday.

The reports said, the civil and police administration was informed of the hanging of Afzal Guru about 5am after he was hanged to death inside the Tihar jail at about 4.30am on Saturday.

Incidentally chief minister Omar Abdullah was in New Delhi on Friday and reports said that he was himself caught unawares about the rejection of the mercy plea of Afzal Guru by President Pranab Mukherjee on Saturday. Home minister Sushilkumar Shinde had promised that he would dispose of the file soon after took over the charge of home ministry last year.

Importantly, Supreme Court had ordered hanging of Guru in 2004, after he was charged of attack on the Parliament in 2001 but Grur's wife made an appeal to the President for mercy after his execution was scheduled in 2006 till then the mercy petition was pending with the President's office.

The reports from New Delhi said that President Pranab Mukherjee rejected the mercy plea on January 23, 2013 and hanging took place at about 4.30am on Saturday, inside the Tihar jail where the convict was lodged, the sources added.

Nine people including security men and officials of the Parliament were killed when Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorists attacked the Parliament in 2001 and Afzal guru was held responsible for conspiracy and helping the perpetrators even several of the Kashmiris based in New Delhi were picked up for questioning but later on released after court observed that they were not involved in the crime.

*The authorities in Srinagar and other major towns of the valley had announcements through loudspeakers to remain indoors after the Fajr Nimaz and heavy deployment of para-military and police was placed in the sensitive areas of miasuma locality in uptown besides areas in down town, the reports said.*


The authorities have even closed the Srinagar-Jammu national high for the day to avert the trouble. Large number of para-military personnel have deployed outside the houses of the separatist leaders to prevent them from coming out on the streets to instigate trouble in the valley, the reports said.
Reports said, Srinagar residents are informing one another on phone about the imposition of curfew in the valley and trying to know the situation in their respective areas.

*Incidentally, the hanging of Guru came two days earlier February 11 when JKLF activists were preparing to observe "Martyr's day" for the hanging of their founder leader Maqbool Bhat , who was hanged to death in Tihar jail on February 11 in 1983 after he was held guilty of killing bank manger in border district of Kupwara in bank robbery case.*


The separatist leaders and the mainstream politicians were averse to hanging of Guru and the chief minister Omar Abdullah wanted that his hanging should be delayed for the time being during his rule in the state.
Afzal Guru, who hailed from Sopore in north Kashmir was a Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorist and was sentenced to death by the SC in 2002 after he was found guilty of 2001 Parliament attack.

While some sources say that Azal Guru's mercy appeal was rejected on Friday but some sources say that it was rejected by the President on January 23, 2013.

Initially Afzal Guru was a part of JKLF terrorist outfit. Guru, according to his own interviews with various newspapers, had admitted that he rejoined militancy after one Tariq Ahmad of Anantnag motivated him to join jehad for liberation of Kashmir by launching attacks on various embassies and Indian institutions. Tariq, according to Guru's own version introduced him to one Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorist in Ghaziabad in Pakistan, who motivated him to launch an attack .


Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew imposed in Kashmir valley, NH closed to avert trouble - The Times of India


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## fallstuff

Perhaps an innocent man was framed. Arundhati Roi thinks so.


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## nForce

A.Rafay said:


> He was a poor fruit seller he always denied the attacks, this is indian Propaganda, he was also also not one of the attackers, all attackers were killed. He was deliberately arrested and inocent fruit seller has been hanged by india based on propaganda.



Well,the Indian Judicial system thinks different and thats what actually counts.


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## SpArK

KRAIT said:


> Rape is a Banned Topic. Webby banned it again.




Thats sad. 

The veteran's opportune to score with zillion posts on the favorite topiC being denied by unfortunate laws.

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## nair

fallstuff said:


> Perhaps an innocent man was framed. Arundhati Roi thinks so.



Just googled to find out if arundhati roi is part of indian judiciary..... I failed to get any response from google...... Sorry Mate.....

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## KRAIT

Better late than never.


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## nForce

fallstuff said:


> Perhaps an innocent man was framed. Arundhati Roi thinks so.



According to the report submitted in the post by a Pakistani member just before your post :



> Initially Afzal Guru was a part of JKLF terrorist outfit. Guru, according to his own interviews with various newspapers, had admitted that he rejoined militancy after one Tariq Ahmad of Anantnag motivated him to join jehad for liberation of Kashmir by launching attacks on various embassies and Indian institutions. Tariq, according to Guru's own version introduced him to one Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorist in Ghaziabad in Pakistan, who motivated him to launch an attack .
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...g-news-afzal-guru-hanged-6.html#ixzz2KNXQIQf5



We should hang those cow-smugglers and pole-vaulters as well.

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## KRAIT

Mohammed Afzal Guru: Delhi parliament attack plotter hanged

A fruit seller sentenced to death over a 2001 plot to attack India's parliament has been hanged after his final clemency plea was rejected.

Officials said Mohammed Afzal Guru was executed at Tihar jail on the outskirts of Delhi.

Afzal Guru had always denied plotting the attack, which killed nine people.

Security has been stepped up and a curfew announced in the border state of Kashmir, where news of the execution was expected to spark unrest.

Executions are very rare in India - Afzal Guru's was only the second since 2004, after Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the sole surviving attacker from the 2008 Mumbai attack was executed in November.
*
Pakistan-backed attack?
*
The December 2001 attack was one of the most controversial incidents in recent Indian history, correspondents say.

Five rebels stormed India's parliament in New Delhi on 13 December 2001, killing a gardener and eight policemen before they were shot dead by security forces.

India blamed the attack on the Jaish-e-Mohammed militant group, which it said was backed by Pakistan.

Pakistan denied involvement in the attack but relations between the two countries nosedived as their armies massed about a million troops along the border.

Afzal Guru was one of two men sentenced to death for helping plan the attack, although the sentence of Shaukat Hussain was later reduced on appeal to 10 years in jail.

Two other people accused in the case, SAR Geelani and Afsan Guru, were acquitted due to a lack of evidence.

Afzal Guru's appeal was first refused by the Supreme Court and then the president.

BBC News - Mohammed Afzal Guru: Delhi parliament attack plotter hanged


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## KS

Here comes the cartoons...

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## nair

KS said:


> Here comes the cartoons...
> 
> wait for some time



where????????????


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## KRAIT

fallstuff said:


> Perhaps an innocent man was framed. Arundhati Roi thinks so.


Yup true. Supreme Court made a mistake. Arundhati Roy knows everything.

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## Mech

KS said:


> Expect a wankfest in the TV studios by the self-declared intellectuals, HR champions, leftie liberals for the next two days.
> 
> Not to forget a 30,00,000 word essay from Arundati Roy




I'm pretty certain Amnesty International will come out with all guns blazing. They were pretty vicious when Kasab was hung.


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## nForce



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## indian_foxhound

oye mubaraka badhaiya patake
Congress tab b kutti hai aur sab si badiya kuttia sonia.



KRAIT said:


> Yup true. Supreme Court made a mistake. Arundhati Roy knows everything.



PAKISTANI TAKES Arundhati Roy as a chief justice of india... it seem

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## Koovie

YEAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! 

Finally he gets what he deserves!

Jai Hind!


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## Sugarcane

Congratulation for hanging another Indian on account of terrorism

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## SpArK

LoveIcon said:


> Congratulation for hanging another Indian on account of terrorism



Thanks mate. Lots of ignorant people were calling him freedom fighter and all. 

Atlast a sane mind.

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## Cherokee

LoveIcon said:


> Congratulation for hanging another Indian on account of terrorism



You should try this Indian formula in Pakistan too . Will save you a lot of troubles you are going through ryt now .


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## Sugarcane

Cherokee said:


> You should try this Indian formula in Pakistan too . Will save you a lot of troubles you are going through ryt now .



I wish our courts can also do it!!!!

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## nForce

LoveIcon said:


> Congratulation for hanging another Indian on account of terrorism



Thanks a lot.
Be Indian,be Pakistani,we will hang all those terrorists who try to harm our country.
You should be doing the same,for your own good.

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## Cherokee

LoveIcon said:


> I wish our courts can also do it!!!!



They have jurisdiction right . Capital punishment is not banned in Pakistan , if i am right ?


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## Soumitra

LoveIcon said:


> Congratulation for hanging another Indian on account of terrorism



Yes he was an Indian from Jammu and Kashmir, an integral part of India. Thanks for the confirmation

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## Bobby

Marxist said:


> Congress leader Mani Shankar Aiyar says"The Decision to Hang AfzalGuru is sad" ....typical congressi



Hang him instead.....

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## t_for_talli

for truth said:


> if rape threads are to be banned, then this hanging thread also should be banned, not trying to act as a hero here, but, this thread really questions our behavior,morale and ethics. felling of justice served should not be taken over by celebratory tone.Any way, justice prevails.
> 
> satya meva jayate.



We belong to a culture where we celebrate Vijay Dashmi(Dussehera) & Holika Dahan
I see no harm in celebrating the death of evil

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## max_mojito

Great news for India, and the rest of the world. Better than letting them rot in prison wasting indian tax payers money. Hang them and get it over with. Jay Hind


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## KRAIT

My friend's status . Now Kasab has finally got someone to 'hang' out with.

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## liontk

@ to all indienne members, what will be your next government policy towards kashmir as well as Modi's stance on it. Just curious how kashmiris will react to this though justice has prevailed, there will be long term consequences. The issue of kashmir seems to be quite similar to the story of metis settlements in red river and what came of Louis riel though this guy being a coward does change the equation slightly.


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## indian_foxhound

KRAIT said:


> My friend's status . Now Kasab has finally got someone to 'hang' out with.



Well thanx for my new status...


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## third eye

It in unlikely that this will steal the thunder from BJP - they shall still score on the amount of time the Govt took .

On a side note, there was a school of thought that besides attacking the parliament, this man should be hung for attacking and not having achieved the objective of killing MP's !!


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## JAT BALWAN

Good move by Indian Jurisdiction...

But seems like politicians will make some brownie points on it, govt. looks in a bit hurry to make some points before gen. elections.


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## Iggy

KRAIT said:


> My friend's status . Now Kasab has finally got someone to 'hang' out with.



defenitely going to be my status in FB.. Thanks..

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## Parul

Finally the perpetrators of hate meeting their fate!


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## indian_foxhound

liontk said:


> @ to all indienne members, what will be your next government policy towards kashmir as well as Modi's stance on it. Just curious how kashmiris will react to this though justice has prevailed, there will be long term consequences. The issue of kashmir seems to be quite similar to the story of metis settlements in red river and what came of Louis riel though this guy being a coward does change the equation slightly.



Let modi come in power first. You will get to know eventiualy...


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## Bobby

Good to hear..some garbage is cleaned up....


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## indian_foxhound

seiko said:


> defenitely going to be my status in FB.. Thanks..



Maine to copy past mar di


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## liontk

liontk said:


> @ to all indienne members, what will be your next government policy towards kashmir as well as Modi's stance on it. Just curious how kashmiris will react to this though justice has prevailed, there will be long term consequences. The issue of kashmir seems to be quite similar to the story of metis settlements in red river and what came of Louis riel though this guy being a coward does change the equation slightly.



edit: by change I mean different from the last 60 years in terms of general policy.

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## KS

third eye said:


> It in unlikely that this will steal the thunder from BJP - they shall still score on the amount of time the Govt took .



Hi everyone on Twitter & is only saying one thing - elections are coming soon. 

If, If, the Congress had a political motive in mind to score a point by hanging him, I think, it has more or less failed.



t_for_talli said:


> We belong to a culture where we celebrate Vijay Dashmi(Dussehera) & Holika Dahan
> I see no harm in celebrating the death of evil



Valid Point.


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## Iggy

KS said:


> Hi everyone on Twitter & is only saying one thing - elections are coming soon.
> 
> If, If, the Congress had a political motive in mind to score a point by hanging him, I think, it has more or less failed.



Shoo.. Dont interupt them while they are doing something good in the sake of election.. 

Hope before election most of the scums will be hanged


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## liontk

indian_foxhound said:


> Let modi come in power first. You will get to know eventiualy...



Is there a link to his platform, or is it not election season yet?


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## nair

seiko said:


> defenitely going to be my status in FB.. Thanks..



Mine toooo  Thanks @KRAIT

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## Cherokee

liontk said:


> Is there a link to his platform, or is it not election season yet?




Elections are due next year in India i guess


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## third eye

liontk said:


> @ to all indienne members, what will be your next government policy towards kashmir as well as Modi's stance on it. Just curious how kashmiris will react to this though justice has prevailed, there will be long term consequences. The issue of kashmir seems to be quite similar to the story of metis settlements in red river and what came of Louis riel though this guy being a coward does change the equation slightly.



The next Govt is unclear, as things stand it is unlikely that a BJP Govt will come to power.

Modi's stance should remain guarded as of now. He wouldn't like to open his cards as yet. As regards J&K, there shall be turmoil but that in no way should come in the Govt taking strong decisions. Too long have we vacillated as a nation to take hard calls. 

Quite frankly, enough is enough, coalition politics is taking its toll on the nation. If this Govt wants to come back to power it needs to show its mettle or else the people will show theirs.


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## OrionHunter

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Probbly innocent man


Yes! As innocent as Hakimullah Mehsud!


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## indushek

Let us celebrate the fact that justice has been served at last.


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## indian_foxhound

KS said:


> Hi everyone on Twitter & is only saying one thing - elections are coming soon.
> 
> If, If, the Congress had a political motive in mind to score a point by hanging him, I think, it has more or less failed.
> 
> 
> 
> Valid Point.



Ya its election propaganda... Winter session kasab budget session guru... Congress trying to divert mind of public and media from budget


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## A.Rafay

KRAIT said:


> My friend's status . Now Kasab has finally got someone to 'hang' out with.



They may have a room mate too!
Guess who! ball thakrey!

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## Cherokee

Kasab's Pending Friend Request to Afzal Guru got automatically approved this morning !!


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## AyanRay

Just heard a beautiful comment on NDTV. Afjal guru and his associates tried to wage a war against india's democracy by attacking the parliament but it is because of this very democracy that some people in India have opendly opposed his hanging. Long live india's Democracy

Afjal guru and his associates tried to wage a war against india's democracy by attacking the temple of democracy ( parliament) but it is because of this very democracy that some people in India have opendly opposed his hanging. Long live india's Democracy


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## liontk

Look it is critical while harsh rule can work in short terms, it may not work in long term. the anglais oppressed the french for 300 years while they got lax over the years, people mind remain rigid even after pearson's liberal policy towards quebec and further appeasement. It got to the point that the french just felt like they did not belong and the identity became more rigid so indienne are on slippery slope with their current policy though a shift may change opinion polls, it could prevent the inevitable , in quebec case 1% saved us


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## notsuperstitious

liontk said:


> @ to all indienne members, what will be your next government policy towards kashmir as well as Modi's stance on it. Just curious how kashmiris will react to this though justice has prevailed, there will be long term consequences. The issue of kashmir seems to be quite similar to the story of metis settlements in red river and what came of Louis riel though this guy being a coward does change the equation slightly.



There is a religious angle to this in Kashmir, hence reason fails.

Our policy is simple, control violence, allow elected kashmiri govt to normalise situation by strengthening institutions.

Mind you, kashmir has the lowest poverty in India already.

I do not know what % of your french speaking population lives in Quebec, in India only 5% or less of all of India's muslims live in kashmir. They WILL NOT BE allowed separatism in the name of religion.


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## liontk

fateh71 said:


> There is a religious angle to this in Kashmir, hence reason fails.
> 
> Our policy is simple, control violence, allow elected kashmiri govt to normalise situation by strengthening institutions.
> 
> Mind you, kashmir has the lowest poverty in India already.



Look dont take offence but your not the first one to experience religion angle, canada for most of its history had a catholic-protestant divide right up till lauriers time so i understand the significance. However canada followed an extensive policy with excessive appeasement to keep quebec in union to mend the past. As far as kashmir goes, its a critical point because afzal could become a rallying point similar to lous riel, which may not be in indienne interest. I see no urgency in indienne members , this type of sentiment can easily manipulated by neighours to ur west and north.


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## KS

Modi&#8217;s rise may have speeded hanging: early polls now? | Firstpost



> There is now little doubt that the early-morning hanging of Afzal Guru, the Kashmiri who was convicted for the 2001 attack on Parliament, is an intensely political decision. Taken together with the earlier hanging of Ajmal Kasab, the 26/11 terrorist, last November, it shows that the Congress party has decided to shift the terms of the political debate for 2014.
> 
> While it is possible to claim that all hangings are political in nature and depend on popular sentiment to some extent, the Kasab and Guru hangings are indicative of a well-thought-out Congress strategy to fight the 2014 elections on an entirely different plank. There is no other reason why the Congress would dawdle over years on the hangings, and then decide on them in just a matter of days.
> 
> The common assumption so far has been that the Congress has much to lose in 2014, thanks to its complete mismanagement of the economy under an economist Prime Minister. This is why it is changing the goalposts.
> 
> *There are several basic reasons for this shift in strategy.*
> 
> 
> *The first is Narendra Modi.* Now that it is crystal clear that Modi will be the BJPs prime ministerial candidate, the Congress knows it has a fight on its hands. It has, therefore, attempted to close off all opportunities for a political attack from the Right on the Islamic terror front by hanging both Kasab and Guru.
> 
> But unlike Guru and Kasab, where the negative political fallout for the Congress would have been limited, it is unlikely that the Congress will play the same hanging card with Balwant Singh Rajaona and Rajivs killers, Santhan, Murugan, and Perarivalan. They come from politically more powerful states of Punjab and Tamil Nadu.
> 
> The Modi factor behind the hanging was obvious from the timing of Kasabs execution in November  just a month before the Gujarat elections. The Guru hanging comes just before the Karnataka elections, where the Congress hopes to wrest the state away from the BJP. The BJP has now no chance of retaining the state, since even the floating BJP voter will find the Congresss actions acceptable.
> 
> In carrying out the Guru hanging, the Congress has clearly written off the next election in Kashmir, but is calculating that losing an ally here or one or two seats in this border state is worth the stemming of losses somewhere else.
> 
> But one should see the hangings in the context of the Congress counter-attack on Saffron terror. This has put the BJP on the defensive on its hardline anti-terror stance. This is Sushil Kumar Shindes mastermove that seeks to not only change the governments image of being soft on terror, but force the BJP to defend its own militant Sangh allies. It can also be seen as an attempt to retain the Muslim vote despite the hangings.
> 
> One can speculate that but for Modis candidature, the Congress would have preferred the soft option of wooing the minorities and sticking to its aam aadmi stance. But once it became clear that the Gujarat strongman would probably be the face of the anti-Congress opposition in 2014, it had no alternative but to counter Modis potential appeal to the Hindu urban voter base in some way.
> 
> *The second reason for Congress move is to shift the focus of politics away from economic failure to emotive issues like terror.* Elections are not usually won on just positive agendas, but also in pandering to popular sentiment and fears.
> 
> The Congress knows that it has no chance of defending its economic record in UPA-2, not least because Modi is now painting himself as a development messiah and the nation has been willing to buy at least some of the latters achievements. Not only has growth slowed down, but inflation is making the life of the aam aadmi harder. The aam aadmi is angry with the government despite the UPAs huge spending in his name. And the BJP and the regional parties were in a position to harvest some of this anger in 2014.
> 
> The hangings will ensure that the next election debate will not focus entirely on the economic performance of the UPA, but on harder political issues.
> 
> It is also an indirect acknowledgement that the Congress is not sure of direct cash transfers  Aapka paisa, aapke haath  as a vote-winner in 2014.
> 
> *The third reason for the hanging is Rahul Gandhi.* The Congress knows that Rahul is no vote winner. His wimpy leadership has neither enthused the Congress flock nor is it likely to provide any kind of counter to the virile attacks one can expect from Modi on the campaign trail.
> 
> The hangings thus provide the Congress a shelter to hide the weaknesses of their prime ministerial candidate.
> 
> However, this shift may come with a cost. The effort is to woo the Hindu vote that may be veering towards Modi, but it could also shift some Muslim votes away from Congress, possibly to regional parties. The question is whether the Congress can manage this balancing act cleverly in the run-up to the 2014 elections.
> 
> *The fourth reason for the hangings has to relate to the widespread realisation that the Congress has completely lost the faith of the urban middle class*  thanks to the various corruption scandals uncovered by the Comptroller and Auditor General and the governments handling of the Delhi gangrape fallout.
> 
> The hanging appeases the urban middle class, which has been the biggest critic of the governments weakness on terror. Most terrorist acts have happened in urban areas, and the government has had no answer to the challenge. This was one area where Modis appeal would have been strongest.
> 
> To be sure, the Kasab and Guru hangings will be forgotten long before we reach the 2014 elections. This should again raise the possibility that the Congress may want to call the elections earlier  maybe some time in October 2013, once the winds from Karnataka are clear  so that the economy does not come back to the agenda. But once can only speculate on that possibility.
> 
> But the hangings are interesting for another reason: till now, we thought the Congress would focus on the aam aadmi and wooing the minorities, while the BJP would focus on terror and development.
> 
> We now will have a BJP candidate talking about development and not terror, and the Congress talking anti-terror and not development.
> 
> 2014 promises to be an interesting challenge. Both the BJP and the Congress have shifted to the others territory.



2014 must be like the most interesting polls till date


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## trident2010

Roybot said:


> RIP.
> 
> May you return as a better person in your next life.



Karma is a bi*ch. He might return as a Turkey during Christmas dinner


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## kurup

Was watching the news in TV .

Let the ba$tard rot in hell .


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## notsuperstitious

liontk said:


> Look dont take offence but your not the first one to experience religion angle, canada for most of its history had a catholic-protestant divide right up till lauriers time so i understand the significance. However canada followed an extensive policy with excessive appeasement to keep quebec in union to mend the past. As far as kashmir goes, its a critical point because afzal could become a rallying point similar to lous riel, which may not be in indienne interest. I see no urgency in indienne members , this type of sentiment can easily manipulated by neighours to ur west and north.



Sir, I understand what you are saying and agree in principle. I have great respect for Canada's secular, welafare oriented, humanitarian inclusive policies.

*But let me just say, India is not Canada. When we become a developed country like Canada, we might think differently. For now we have shed too much of our blood in Kashmir, and if one has to consider the religious angle, then by joe hindus have spilled too much blood in kashmir over the last seven centuries. Two can and will play this game. India is not Canada, no sir.*

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## KRAIT

A.Rafay said:


> They may have a room mate too!
> Guess who! ball thakrey!


I can understand your frustration and trolling. BTW I got warning for 72 related post. I wonder what Mods would do to their own compatriots.


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## Peaceful Civilian

LoveIcon said:


> Congratulation for hanging another Indian on account of terrorism



This is propaganda of India and false accusation, just to hide their torturer cells, rape on civilians and brutal killing in Kashmir.


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## KRAIT

@agamdilawari Delete that pic. You might get an infraction. I got one too. 

Apparently Hindus and Jews can be called anything, but you dare use anything against some people, even if the promise of those girls given to the potential recruits, you get an infraction.

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## Rajesh_Singh1984

It must was happned long ago


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## KRAIT

Peaceful Civlian said:


> This is propaganda of India and false accusation, just to hide their torturer cells, rape on civilians and brutal killing in Kashmir.


Yup. Go and prove it. Till then enjoy the show.


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## OrionHunter

liontk said:


> Mocking people is not wise and a death is not to be celebrated.


Really? Hafiz Saeed and his LeT yahoos celebrated the murder of the six security personnel in the Parliament attack in which Afzal Guru was involved as well as the 166 innocent people murdered by his terrorists in Mumbai.

I think you need to advise these murderous bozos residing in Pakistan who celebrate every suicide bombing and killing of innocents instead of preaching us Indians whether a terrorist death is to be celebrated or not. *We don't need unsolicited advice from people like you who've never faced terror, living a million miles away in Canada.
*
I'm off to have some beer to celebrate this happy occasion. 

Cheers!

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## Jango

*72 virgins or any reference to it is not allowed anymore.*

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## Rajesh_Singh1984

---This is propaganda of India and false accusation, just to hide their torturer cells, rape on civilians and brutal killing in Kashmir.---

Sir only 1 question, have watched Afzal interview?


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## Daedalus

Better late than never.


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## A.Rafay

nuclearpak said:


> *72 virgins or any reference to it is not allowed anymore.*



Indians making mess out of it and joking! and linking religion with terrorism.


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## liontk

fateh71 said:


> Sir, I understand what you are saying and agree in principle. I have great respect for Canada's secular, welafare oriented, humanitarian inclusive policies.
> 
> *But let me just say, India is not Canada. When we become a developed country like Canada, we might think differently. For now we have shed too much of our blood in Kashmir, and if one has to consider the religious angle, then by joe hindus have spilled too much blood in kashmir over the last seven centuries. Two can and will play this game. India is not Canada, no sir.*





Interesting point however what you mentioned is a commonpitfall as they its known in economics associated with opportunity cost. However this can be a double edge sword to economic development of inde and sentiments are changing in west, go through cbc comment or radio francais and you can clearly see public views shifting towards the other side with respect to issues like palestine,armenian genocide and kashmir. To pakistans credit, they are right behind israel in lobbying at washington take note , i am skeptic whats their current reason but it was reported in the media,  , though inde is in a difficult position because nationlism does not run deep enough yet to overcome certain identities though i am curious about the state of this union in a 100 years if i am alive

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## gubbi

KS said:


> Modi&#8217;s rise may have speeded hanging: early polls now? | Firstpost
> 
> 2014 must be like the most interesting polls till date



Remember the public has a very short memory span. In a few days time, Afzal Guru will be relegated to an insignificant footnote in history only to be remembered as being involved in the attack on Indian Parliament building. Kasab's atrocity and hanging had more staying power, yet his memory fizzled out within days.

In all the four reasons mentioned in the article, Congress lags woefully behind BJP, at the moment ofcourse. If BJP unites behind one or two strong, nationally appealing prime ministerial candidates and maintains the momentum, then Congress stands no chance.


Oh, on Topic: Good riddance!!


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## liontk

@nuclearpak , My apology for the post earlier, couldve chose a better selection of words


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## KS

gubbi said:


> Remember the public has a very short memory span. In a few days time, Afzal Guru will be relegated to an insignificant footnote in history only to be remembered as being involved in the attack on Indian Parliament building. Kasab's atrocity and hanging had more staying power, yet his memory fizzled out within weeks.
> 
> In all the four reasons mentioned in the article, Congress lags woefully behind BJP, at the moment ofcourse. If BJP unites behind one or two strong, nationally appealing prime ministerial candidates and maintains the momentum, then Congress stands no chance.



I think BJP's greatest weapon is not Narendra Modi BUT Rahul Gandhi. Even Modi's detractors (not the hard core, but the floating votes) when they see the bumbling prince and his antics, turn towards modi as a result of the TINA factor.

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## Rajaraja Chola

An excellent news. Finally after getting all the bashing the govt is getting some spine. 
Another terrorist to hell.


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## livingdead

I dont rejoice death. Some say he did not get proper legal help during trial otherwise he might have been acquitted like his mates. Hope thats not true.


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## dearone4u_22

Just heard the news .......tonight its time to Party...May his soul rot with lot of Distress


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## gubbi

KS said:


> I think BJP's greatest weapon is not Narendra Modi BUT Rahul Gandhi. Even Modi's detractors (not the hard core, but the floating votes) when they see the bumbling prince and his antics, turn towards modi as a result of the TINA factor.


IMHO, Nah. Congress doesnt run on Rahul Gandhi. It has many a seasoned politician who can hold their own and carry the party to a considerable number of seats in the parliament. If Congress gets routed in the upcoming elections, it would be a combination of the anti-incumbency factor and Modi and team's able administrative capabilities as seen with the success that is Gujarat today.
If it were for the TINA factor, the public would vote for the Third Front creating chaos like the one we experienced in the early and mid 90's!!

Oh and BJP SHOULD make Modi (with an able wingman) their greatest weapon!!


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## acid rain

Doesn't look like an election stunt, I think this will be the general SOP henceforth. After the president rejects the mercy plea couple of times.....it's straight to the gallows.


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## notsuperstitious

liontk said:


> Interesting point however what you mentioned is a commonpitfall as they its known in economics associated with opportunity cost. However this can be a double edge sword to economic development of inde and sentiments are changing in west, go through cbc comment or radio francais and you can clearly see public views shifting towards the other side with respect to issues like palestine,armenian genocide and kashmir. To pakistans credit, they are right behind israel in lobbying at washington take note , i am skeptic whats their current reason but it was reported in the media,  , though inde is in a difficult position because nationlism does not run deep enough yet to overcome certain identities though i am curious about the state of this union in a 100 years if i am alive



325 years ago my ancestors put up a 27 year war for self rule against a very very powerful ruler and won. The same time A Sikh Guru gave his life away to protect the Hindu Pundits in Kashmir. 23 years ago the Pundits were kicked put of kashmir by religious bigots.

100 years may be a long time frame in Canada, in India its much shorter. Please revisit this thread after 300 years and we will talk

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## KS

liontk said:


> Interesting point however what you mentioned is a commonpitfall as they its known in economics associated with opportunity cost. However this can be a double edge sword to economic development of inde and sentiments are changing in west, go through cbc comment or radio francais and you can clearly see public views shifting towards the other side with respect to issues like palestine,armenian genocide and kashmir. To pakistans credit, they are right behind israel in lobbying at washington take note , i am skeptic whats their current reason but it was reported in the media,  , though inde is in a difficult position because nationlism does not run deep enough yet to overcome certain identities though i am curious about the state of this union in a 100 years if i am alive



See one thing you should know about South asians is we are extremely emotional people and place an insane amount of importance on something called honor (or even ego). So no matter the cost, Kashmir will be defended. It has become a matter of honor for us - not to capitulate before religious bigots. And we will not.

Second when you have a population of 1.3 billion, which is larger than the entire western civilization put together, and increasingly an economic power then you would understand why the views of the listeners of CBS or radio francais hardly matters.

About the state of the union 100 years hence, dont worry we have survived all the doomsday predictions right from our inception as a modern political state and we will do just fine. We have our differences, our regional, ethnic, linguistic, religional differences. But at the end of the day you should understand we are a civilizational state (unlike Canada or US) with a shared history, culture,heritage and faith running into 1000s of years and they are the connecting fabric of our nation..

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## KRAIT

acid rain said:


> Doesn't look like an election stunt, I think this will be the general SOP henceforth. After the president rejects the mercy plea couple of times.....it's straight to the gallows.


You should have heard Manish Tiwari's Press Conference. He started with UPA doing this doing that. Then he moved to Gujrat Riots targeting BJP.

Only a naive won't see Politics behind it. BJP is going to corner Congress over Shinde's remarks and Congress needs few issues to pitch against BJP.


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## SG1990

At last our Govt did what was required to be done a long time ago and thankfully did not bow down to the pressure emanating from Kashmir.Kudos to the Indian Govt.


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## KS

gubbi said:


> Oh and BJP SHOULD make Modi (with an able wingman) their greatest weapon!!



Everything is falling into place :

1) Motabhai (Gadkari) has been sent home

2)Rajnath is back and he is known to be close to Modi

3)Vasundhara Raje is back in power in Rajasthan and she is a close confidante of Modi.

4)The election board of BJP is being re-constituted to include Modi, Shivraj Chauhan and his loyalists Amit Shah and another guy are also being brought in.

5) The allies one by one are falling in line - Sukhbir Badal (Akali) have said they will support Modi and both Shiv Sena and MNS (potential ally) have indicated they have no problem with Modi. Today Nitish has said that those who suggest thus name for PM are his rivals thus giving the reconciliatory signal towards Modi. Potential allies include ADMK, BJD and TDP.

6)The Sangh which is the organizational backbone of BJP also seem to have rallied behind him with the reports about VHP and RSS openly endorsing his PM 'credentials'.

Anyway the ultimate power lies in the hands of the aam admi. its upto him to exercise his options carefully. Lets see what 2014 has for us. One thing, this is going to be a very very interesting rat race.


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## IND151

It is the true tribute to the security personnel who died defending parliament. 

Also RIP to the gardener who died in attack.


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## DrSomnath999

jaisi karni wesi bharni


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## vsdoc

Jai Hind !!!!

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## vsdoc

Jai Hind !!!!!!!!


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## JanjaWeed

Just watching an interview of Afzal Guru in AajTak, dated 20/12/2001. Donno if this was broadcasted before.... but quite revealing though. Guy is admitting his crime & also goes to say that it has nothing to do with Kashmir cause, but due to his deteriorating financial conditions he took up the mission to attack. Apparently Jihad is more of a business & has nothing to do with the cause. wow..


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## dravidianhero

liontk said:


> Interesting point however what you mentioned is a commonpitfall as they its known in economics associated with opportunity cost. However this can be a double edge sword to economic development of inde and sentiments are changing in west, go through cbc comment or radio francais and you can clearly see public views shifting towards the other side with respect to issues like palestine,armenian genocide and kashmir. To pakistans credit, they are right behind israel in lobbying at washington take note , i am skeptic whats their current reason but it was reported in the media,  , though inde is in a difficult position because nationlism does not run deep enough yet to overcome certain identities though i am curious about the state of this union in a 100 years if i am alive




Man if nationalism doesnt run in indians,then you can be rest assured that it doesnt run in anyone in any country...you once come to india and see how much indians love their country..considering the poverty and illiteracy in india it is really incredible that inspite of their various identities,everyone considers themselves indians..Unlike pakistanis indians believe their country is 5000 years old(which may be historically false)...many people in india have this deep rooted pride in their country but they criticize their evils and are slowly evolving.


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## Sugarcane

Peaceful Civlian said:


> This is propaganda of India and false accusation, just to hide their torturer cells, rape on civilians and brutal killing in Kashmir.



Where i testified that it was rightful or not?


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## Rajaraja Chola

KRAIT said:


> My friend's status . Now Kasab has finally got someone to 'hang' out with.



Roger that... !! Its mine from now on


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## INDIC

liontk said:


> Interesting point however what you mentioned is a commonpitfall as they its known in economics associated with opportunity cost. However this can be a double edge sword to economic development of inde and sentiments are changing in west, go through cbc comment or radio francais and you can clearly see public views shifting towards the other side with respect to issues like palestine,armenian genocide and kashmir. To pakistans credit, they are right behind israel in lobbying at washington take note , i am skeptic whats their current reason but it was reported in the media,  , though inde is in a difficult position because nationlism does not run deep enough yet to overcome certain identities though i am curious about the state of this union in a 100 years if i am alive



Westerns and even Pakistan have very weak knowledge about our nationalistic identity. Our nationalistic goes back to ancient India. We have very much successful in preserving out ethnic identity along with our deep national identity. Certainly our history don't start with Arab conquest of Sindh as many Pakistani thinks.

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## nair

can anyone post the link of afzal guru interview on kind of committing his crime.... I did saw the part of it in headlines today.....


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## LiberalAtheist

Kashmir will burn for days because of this.


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## skyisthelimit

KS said:


> Everything is falling into place :
> 
> 1) Motabhai (Gadkari) has been sent home
> 
> 2)Rajnath is back and he is known to be close to Modi
> 
> 3)Vasundhara Raje is back in power in Rajasthan and she is a close confidante of Modi.
> 
> 4)The election board of BJP is being re-constituted to include Modi, Shivraj Chauhan and his loyalists Amit Shah and another guy are also being brought in.
> 
> 5) The allies one by one are falling in line - Sukhbir Badal (Akali) have said they will support Modi and both Shiv Sena and MNS (potential ally) have indicated they have no problem with Modi. Today Nitish has said that those who suggest thus name for PM are his rivals thus giving the reconciliatory signal towards Modi. Potential allies include ADMK, BJD and TDP.
> 
> 6)The Sangh which is the organizational backbone of BJP also seem to have rallied behind him with the reports about VHP and RSS openly endorsing his PM 'credentials'.
> 
> Anyway the ultimate power lies in the hands of the aam admi. its upto him to exercise his options carefully. Lets see what 2014 has for us. One thing, this is going to be a very very interesting rat race.




yesterday also read somewhere that BJP spokesperson Mr. Naqvi said they are expecting few more allies to join NDA soon. however, he did not disclose their names.


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## Not Sure

liontk said:


> Interesting point however what you mentioned is a commonpitfall as they its known in economics associated with opportunity cost. *However this can be a double edge sword to economic development of inde and sentiments are changing in west, go through cbc comment or radio francais and you can clearly see public views shifting towards the other side with respect to issues like palestine,armenian genocide and kashmir. *To pakistans credit, they are right behind israel in lobbying at washington take note , i am skeptic whats their current reason but it was reported in the media,  , though inde is in a difficult position because nationlism does not run deep enough yet to overcome certain identities though i am curious about the state of this union in a 100 years if i am alive



The sentiments in the West, esp Canada and England, had always been pro-Pakistan and anti-India. They were the worst throughout 70's, reached the abyss during the 80's, and stayed suspended during the 90's.

In those days every Tom/Dick/Harry in the West would want to intervene in the Kashmir dispute. *Heck they would flat out deny Indian officers to check out the headquarters of terrorist outfits in US, Canada, and England. (The same headquarters that have now become the biggest phobia to the whites living there)*

Nothing happened.

Now, when India has grown more powerful and economically more sound, what makes you think such sentiments in the Canadian media would have any, whatsoever, effect on the Kashmir dispute?

Canada was so sidelined after the Indo-US nuke deal, that even the politicians there realized they gotta look out for themselves and cannot count on the US on all matters.

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## IND151

SpArK said:


> Thanks mate. Lots of ignorant people were calling him freedom fighter and all.
> 
> Atlast a sane mind.



Marvelous reply.

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## shree835

With these two hangings Kasab and Afzal Terrorist and their supports must understand thatIndia is not going to tolerate this nonsense Indian would like to warn every one that seeking peace does not mean that, we cannot take tough and tight decisions.


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## karan.1970

What I am most happy about is that till the time these guys were alive in indian prison, there was a chance of some idiot hijacking a plane (or something similar) to negotiate their release.. Now that train has atleast left the station...

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## Yeti

Congress played the politics card with this hanging but least he dead now


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## shree835

LoveIcon said:


> Where i testified that it was rightful or not?



At ISI office he is right and in Indian court and to the Indians he is wrong.


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## kaykay

finally he got what he deserved!!! Though it should have been done earlier...


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## Sugarcane

shree835 said:


> At ISI office he is right and in Indian court and to the Indians he is wrong.



It's not a one way street.....


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## Hobo1

M.Aiyar surely would be very pained today. Apart from the men guarding parliment who were i think were adquetly compenstated there are many folks who suffered the same consequences as the policemen gaurding the Parliment but were hardly compenstated.



> On the day of the Parliament attack, home guard Radha Chauhan, now 35, rushed to the rescue of a CRPF constable, Kamlesh Yadav. But what followed this bit of heroism was neither recognition nor reward  only 11 years of hardship and running around for assistance. On December 13, 2001,
> Chauhan, was posted outside Gate No 5 of Parliament. I was assisting a traffic inspector when I saw a speeding ambassador enter the premises, spraying bullets all around. As we ran inside, I saw a woman, who turned out to be Yadav of the CRPFs 88th Battalion, and ran to shield her, said Chauhan, who now works as a contractual sweeper.
> 
> Thereafter, all went downhill for Chauhan. After 10 days in hospital she went back to work, only to be told that her contract had expired and she was ineligible for compensation as she was alive.
> 
> Around that time, her husband was diagnosed with tuberculosis and died five years later.
> 
> Ive approached everyone, from party presidents to chief ministers as well police officials, but no one helped.
> 
> Speaking to HT, a senior police officer said: There is an elaborate procedure in such cases and we will provide assistance as and when directed to do so.


Parliament attack heroine, now a sweeper - Hindustan Times




> Ahead of the 11th anniversary of the Parliament attack, Sunita, the 32-year-old widow of ANI cameraman Vikram Bisht who was killed in the attack, got word that she may soon have a government job. Sunita works at a Hindi news channel and her two children Naveen, 13, and Priya, 12  go to a neighbourhood school.
> 
> I was 20 years old when Vikram died. No one offered me a job in the aftermath of the incident. I started working two years ago, and earn Rs. 8,000 a month, most of which I spend on the education of my kids, she said.
> 
> Forget free education for my kids, they cant even provide me with a job. Neither can they hang convict Afzal Guru, Sunita said. They can feed terrorists in jail, but not the family of the victims, she added.



Now time has come to even go after the architects of these attacks who are safely sitting in Pakistan.


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## shree835

*AFZAL KO LATAKAYA &#8230;BADA MAZA AAYA.*


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## veekysingh

pranab da is working.


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## Punjabbi Munda

He shielded terrorists,helped them map out the plan,arranged for their residence,in short conspired against the nation,got what he deserved.


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## SEAL

Good for India celebrations on face but a bad feeling and fear in heart of loosing Kashmir internet and mobile phone service is jammed, curfew is imposed.
I think his case was not a big issue you can easily convert death penalty into life sentence, we did this to Indian spies, it was congress turn to make saffronz happy it will only create problems(good for us). I hope saffron terrorists won't buy this political stunt by congress, vote for bjp i want to see them in power.


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## Alfa-Fighter

SEAL said:


> Good for India celebrations on face but a bad feeling and fear in heart of loosing Kashmir internet and mobile phone service is jammed, curfew is imposed.
> I think his case was not a big issue you can easily convert death penalty into life sentence, we did this to Indian spies, it was conmiddgress turn to make saffronz happy it will only create problems(good for us). I hope saffron terrorists won't buy this political stunt by congress, vote for bjp i want to see them in power.


You bet........ if region need to de developed then one has to rise above religion, or else they become burden to others..... and after some time no one need burden and get thrown. 

MIddle east is the perfect example how people (religion)become burden in their progress and what is happening

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## nForce

SEAL said:


> Good for India celebrations on face but a bad feeling and fear in heart of loosing Kashmir internet and mobile phone service is jammed, curfew is imposed.
> I think his case was not a big issue you can easily convert death penalty into life sentence, we did this to Indian spies, it was congress turn to make saffronz happy it will only create problems(good for us). I hope saffron terrorists won't buy this political stunt by congress, vote for bjp i want to see them in power.



Firstly,if a curfew for a day averts potential violence,loss of property and possibly loss of lives then it is justified.Things will cool down in a day or two,and then gradually get back to normal.It is a precaution that has been taken.

Secondly,we dont have the system of mob justice here.Afzal Guru has been proved to be an enemy of the state,having played active part in the very center of democracy of India.The judiciary has played its role and the decision is supreme.It may not be a big issue for you,but we,as Indians cannot care less about it.For us,it is an unpardonable act and justice has been served.

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## Screambowl

RIP to our Shaheeds who saved our corrupt Ministers from this attack. Anyways This is for those who died saving the Parliament!!

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## Ammyy

Bhailog Party still on ???

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## INDIC

SEAL said:


> Good for India celebrations on face but a bad feeling and fear in heart of loosing Kashmir internet and mobile phone service is jammed, curfew is imposed.
> I think his case was not a big issue you can easily convert death penalty into life sentence, we did this to Indian spies, it was congress turn to make saffronz happy it will only create problems(good for us). I hope saffron terrorists won't buy this political stunt by congress, vote for bjp i want to see them in power.



Go advice that to Rahman Malik to stop jamming phones during festivals.

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## MZUBAIR

Shame on India, they wont be able to take breath...............Kashmir cant ever become their part.

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## JanjaWeed

JanjaWeed said:


> Just watching an interview of Afzal Guru in AajTak, dated 20/12/2001. Donno if this was broadcasted before.... but quite revealing though. Guy is admitting his crime & also goes to say that it has nothing to do with Kashmir cause, but due to his deteriorating financial conditions he took up the mission to attack. Apparently Jihad is more of a business & has nothing to do with the cause. wow..



Here is the full interview...

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## haviZsultan

No one bothered to think of the fact that he might have been innocent? Travesty of justice, I believe. There was limited evidence in this regard.


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## fallstuff

KRAIT said:


> Yup true. Supreme Court made a mistake. Arundhati Roy knows everything.



It is very much possible. Perhaps a bunch of you know what sit on that bench. If they replaced a judge with you, I doubt that would make any difference at all.


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## nForce

MZUBAIR said:


> Shame on India, they wont be able to take breath...............Kashmir cant ever become their part.




But it already is...why dont you do something about it ?


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Protests said to be going on in occupied Kashmir and now spread into Azad Kashmir as well according to a news ticker I saw. 

Will be interesting to follow. He's just one figurehead really. More of a thorn - many others exist

Nobody asks why the resistance exists (denial)



nForce said:


> Firstly,if a curfew for a day averts potential violence,loss of property and possibly loss of lives then it is justified.Things will cool down in a day or two,and then gradually get back to normal.It is a precaution that has been taken.
> 
> Secondly,we dont have the system of mob justice here.Afzal Guru has been proved to be an enemy of the state,having played active part in the very center of democracy of India.The judiciary has played its role and the decision is supreme.It may not be a big issue for you,but we,as Indians cannot care less about it.For us,it is an unpardonable act and justice has been served.



I think majority of the Muslims of Kashmir (hardliner, secularist alike) can be viewed as enemies of the neighboring (occupying) state  

Based on your rubric


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## Abu Zolfiqar

A.Rafay said:


> He was a poor fruit seller he always denied the attacks, this is indian Propaganda, he was also also not one of the attackers, all attackers were killed. He was deliberately arrested and inocent fruit seller has been hanged by india based on propaganda.



Why are you surprised; neither new not out of their shaky character

Just google "fake encounters" and plenty of literature on the subject is readily available


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## nForce

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Protests said to be going on in occupied Kashmir and now spread into Azad Kashmir as well according to a news ticker I saw.
> 
> Will be interesting to follow. He's just one figurehead really. More of a thorn - many others exist
> 
> Nobody asks why the resistance exists (denial)
> 
> 
> 
> I think majority of the Muslims of Kashmir (hardliner, secularist alike) can be viewed as enemies of the neighboring (occupying) state
> 
> Based on your rubric


Your assumption is wrong.We view the terrorists as enemies of the state and hardliners as pain in the @$$



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Why are you surprised; neither new not out of their shaky character
> 
> Just google "fake encounters" and plenty of literature on the subject is readily available



the thread is about hanging an enemy of the state,not encounters.Being a senior member,I hope you understand.

Do you think Afzal Guru was innocent ? If yes,then why? on what basis?


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## notsuperstitious

Some lame a$$es on fire because a terrorist was hanged. No wonder terrorists from world over go to pakistan for their pilgrimage, obviously a large section of population is terrorist themselves.

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## jbond197

One terrorist less now who's next? I will be glad to see all these mofo terrorists getting hanged one after other..

The one's crying can fight for the rights and safety of terrorists in their own country and set a good example of being true to their teachings/preachings/brain washing till date but kindly stay out of matters in the lands that are alien to you and your ideologies..


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## karan.1970

fateh71 said:


> Some lame a$$es on fire because a terrorist was hanged. No wonder terrorists from world over go to pakistan for their pilgrimage, obviously a large section of population is terrorist themselves.



Remember.. Popular opinion in Pakistan considers OBL innocent...

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## janon

haviZsultan said:


> No one bothered to think of the fact that he might have been innocent? Travesty of justice, I believe. There was limited evidence in this regard.



Everyone let him defend himself, with legal advice. He was tried in the lower courts, found guilty, made full use of his constitutional rights to appeal to higher courts, all the way to the supreme court. Every court found him guilty. After that, he was allowed to beg for mercy from the president. So don't say nobody bothered to ask if he was guilty. Yes we did. India is a country where everyone, even Pakistani terrorists like kasab are given a free and fair trial before hanging from a noose.

I can think of many other countries where there would have been no trial, but just a hellfire missile landing on him unexpectedly, or turning up in a ditch somewhere with torture marks across his body. India tried him to the full extent possible before executing him. Fed and clothed him all the while, for 11 years. What more should we do, to prove his guilt?

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## karan.1970

janon said:


> Everyone let him defend himself, with legal advice. He was tried in the lower courts, found guilty, made full use of his constitutional rights to appeal to higher courts, all the way to the supreme court. Every court found him guilty. So don't say nobody bothered to ask if he was guilty. Yes we did. India is a country where everyone, even Pakistani terrorists like kasab are given a free and fair trial before hanging from a noose.
> 
> I can think of many other countries where there would have been no trial, but just a hellfire missile landing on him unexpectedly, or turning up in a ditch somewhere with torture marks across his body. India tried him to the full extent possible before executing him. Fed and clothed him all the while, for 11 years. What more should we do, to prove his guilt?



Concept of free trial and more importantly punishing terrorists in a little alien to most Pakistanis.. hence the confusion

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## KRAIT

haviZsultan said:


> No one bothered to think of the fact that he might have been innocent? Travesty of justice, I believe. There was limited evidence in this regard.


Well one can say about all the terrorists targeted of TTP by PA might be innocent even when they have no concrete proof like India have against him.

Stop this hypocritic attitude. He was judged as guilty by Supreme Court of India which is way better than you courts.

So stop pitching this idiotic idea that he might be innocent.

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## nForce

I just dont understand the hypocrisy of some Pakistani members here.
Either you support terrorism ,or you dont.No Pakistani had a problem with terrorism until their own home got engulfed by the fire they started.
Now the TTP guys are terrorists when they attack some airport or naval-base etc etc.But the same kind of guy is innocent and people create hue and cry saying "Justice denied" when they convicted and persecuted for attacking our Parliament,the very center of our democracy ??

Those who really think on this line,I will tell you,you all are bunch of sly foxes.

Until and unless my terrorists are terrorists to you as well and vice versa, I dont think we have any common ground.We,for example,never say that TTP is doing a great job and shower praises and sympathies upon them.But sadly enough,I have not seen a single Pakistani here congratulating India for putting an end to a big chapter in terrorism.Its us,who are actually fighting the terrorists,and that too without US alms.So,far Pakistan has been a failure in curbing terrorism.Rather,as the reports are coming out,we get to see,that terrorism has been employed as a state policy by Pakistan.

This country,Pakistan, has been so much brain-washed by their leaders for decades that almost every other guy there knowingly or unknowingly,supports the terrorists in India.And at the same time they call the TTP terrorists.By doing that,they have become hypocrites and a nation of terrorists in true sense.

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## KRAIT

fallstuff said:


> It is very much possible. Perhaps a bunch of you know what sit on that bench. If they replaced a judge with you, I doubt that would make any difference at all.


Yup. It is very much possible. Its also very much possible that pigs can fly. But alas, they can't.

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## janon

karan.1970 said:


> Concept of free trial and more importantly punishing terrorists in a little alien to most Pakistanis.. hence the confusion



For them, a long, free and fair trial in open courts is a "travesty of justice". Terrorists dying from foreign drone strikes or people who criticize the ISI turning up dead in a canal is all kosher.

When has Pakistan given a free and fair trial to their terrorists like we did?

But then we cant fault them for that. If they start giving legal trials to all their terrorists, they would need more law courts than schools, more lawyers and judges than the population itself. Because of the sheer volume of terrorists that infest their country. So they look at one terrorist captured by India and tried for 11 years in open courts at our expense, and cry about "travesty of justice". LOL sums it up.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

nForce said:


> Your assumption is wrong.We view the terrorists as enemies of the state and hardliners as pain in the @$$
> 
> 
> 
> the thread is about hanging an enemy of the state,not encounters.Being a senior member,I hope you understand.
> 
> Do you think Afzal Guru was innocent ? If yes,then why? on what basis?



I could care less what the verdict is. 

More Parliament attacks and more 26/11s will probably continue to take place as long as you kill Kashmiris, occupy them and then expect there'd be no backlash.

If someone did that to me in my home land, i'd fight them back too. 

Mukti bahini were easy to arm and indoctrinate b/c of GoPs callous attitude towards bangalia. Similar logic applies here (though we dont even need to arm or train Kashmiris)

morally, i do believe that the freedom struggle of Kashmir is a just cause so while i dont think Parliament type attack was productive for Kashmiri cause - i certainly wasn't crying tears that day that's for sure

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## jbond197

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> I could care less what the verdict is.
> 
> *More Parliament attacks and more 26/11s will probably continue to take place as long as you kill Kashmiris, occupy them and then expect there'd be no backlash.*
> 
> If someone did that to me in my home land, i'd fight them back too.
> 
> Mukti bahini were easy to arm and indoctrinate b/c of GoPs callous attitude towards bangalia. Similar logic applies here (though we dont even need to arm or train Kashmiris)
> 
> morally, i do believe that the freedom struggle of Kashmir is a just cause so while i dont think Parliament type attack was productive for Kashmiri cause - i certainly wasn't crying tears that day that's for sure



Sure Pakistan can try again and you will get to see the results in your country too. It seems some one is not yet tired of seeing dead.

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## Iggy

*It was I who brought the terrorists to Delhi. I did it for money, not religion, said Parliament attack plotter Afzal Guru in his first interview after arrest
*

It was chilly as usual in December 2001, but the national Capital was highly charged in the aftermath of the most defining terror attack launched on the 13th day of the month. The seat of political power had been attacked during the Winter Session.

I was covering the crime beat and was going through the grind as usual to find my "big story" of the day following the attack.

I still remember with crystal clarity that it was December 20 and a bunch of journalists, including me, was idling around the Delhi Police Special Office in Lodhi Colony looking for our "exclusive" story.

Perhaps, destiny was smiling on me that day as DCP (special cell) Ashok Chand allowed me (from print media) and Shams Tahir Khan (from Aaj Tak) to talk to their "prize catch and co-conspirator in the Parliament attack case" - Mohammed Afzal Guru.

My thoughts flashed back to the 15 minutes I managed to spend with Guru that day the moment I heard the news of his hanging on Saturday morning.

Guru was cold in his response, remorseless and defiant even as he was chained and constantly under police monitoring. He admitted in the very first minute that his conscience did not prick him even once before the attack.

Guru said, "Had I thought what I was doing was wrong, I would not have done it. Had I not been caught, I would probably have gone on to help some other terrorist group for money."

Remorseless

His next statement was enough to make a headline: "It was I who brought the terrorists to Delhi." As the talk progressed, I got more engrossed in reading the psyche of the "terrorist". Guru went on: "It was not religion that motivated me to help the terrorists.
*
I am a businessman and I was helping them because of the money I was promised. I was to get Rs.50,000 for my role and a safe passage to Pakistan."*

He told me "categorically" that the five terrorists involved in the attack were "a close-knit, highly motivated and fanatically religious group".

He aided and assisted them in carrying out the attack, he claimed, saying, "They used to pray regularly and were always focused on the attack. They spent much time in studying the photographs of Parliament they had downloaded from various websites."

Afzal opened up as the police left us alone.

"The suicide squad would regularly go over their attack strategy. They, however, used to hide behind the facade of a westernised lifestyle. They would wear western clothes. The idea was to mislead the intelligence agencies. While Mohammed appeared to be a well-read man, Rana could barely read or write. The others had not studied beyond secondary school," he said, adding that "no doubt Mohammed was the same man who had hijacked IC-814 to Kandahar in 1999 and killed Rupen Katyal (the only passenger murdered by the hijackers)".

Clean chit

On the day of the attack, the terrorists called Afzal and asked him to keep a watch on the proceedings on television. "I was at my sister-in-law's house in Azadpur at that time. There was a power failure there, so I could not watch the proceedings on television," he explained.

Afzal may have confessed about his role, but he gave a clean chit to his co-accused Shaukat Hussain and SAR Geelani, saying, "Their only crime is that they let me use their phones on a few occasions. At one point of time they were even reluctant to lend their vehicle to the terrorists," he claimed.


Read more at: It was I who brought the terrorists to Delhi. I did it for money, not religion, said Parliament attack plotter Afzal Guru in his first interview after arrest : North, News - India Today

^^ So much for innocent fruit seller

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## fallstuff

KRAIT said:


> Yup. It is very much possible. Its also very much possible that pigs can fly. But alas, they can't.



I bet you fair and lovely cops grabbed the first muslim guy in beard they could get their hands on.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

jbond197 said:


> Sure Pakistan can try again and you will get to see the results in your country too. It seems some one is not yet tired of seeing dead.



As usual you give us too much credit. 

Like I said, if I were Kashmiri I'd be up in arms too. They've shown incredible restraint and resilience.

indias grasp is iron fisted yet weak at the same time, which is why the police are now firing live ammo at unarmed Kashmiri nationalists (nothing new)

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## janon

Another hero for Pakistan gets the noose:

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## fallstuff

*If you could come to the Case, what were the incidents that led to the Parliament attack Case?*

After all the lessons I learned in STF camps, which is either you and your family members get harassed constantly for resisting or cooperate with the STF blindly, I had hardly any options left, when D.S.P Davinder Singh asked me to do a small job for him. That is what he told, "a small job". He told me that I had to take one man to Delhi. I was supposed to find a rented house for him in Delhi. I was seeing the man first time, but since he did not speak Kashmiri I suspected he was an outsider. He told his name was Mohammad [Mohammad is identified by the police as the man who led the 5 gunmen who attacked the Parliament. All of them were killed by the security men in the attack].

When we were in Delhi Mohammad and me used to get phone calls from Davinder Singh. I had also noticed that Mohammad used to visit many people in Delhi. After he purchased a car he told me now I could go back and gave me 35,000 rupees saying it was a gift. And I left to Kashmir for Eid.

When I was about to leave to Sopore from Srinagar bus stand I was arrested and taken to Parimpora police station. They tortured me and took to STF headquarters and from there brought me to Delhi. In the torture chamber of Delhi Police Special Cell, I told them everything I knew about Mohammad. But they insisted that I should say that my cousin Showkat, his wife Navjot S.A.R. Geelani and I were the people behind the Parliament attack. They wanted me to say this convincingly in front of media. I resisted. But I had no option than to yield when they told me my family was in their custody and threatened to kill them. I was made to sign many blank pages and was forced to talk to the media and claim responsibility for the attack by repeating what the police told me to say. When a journalist asked me about the role of S.A.R. Geelani I told him Geelani was innocent. A.C.P. Rajbeer Singh shouted at me in the full media glare for talking beyond what they tutored. They were really upset when I deviated from their story and Rajbeer Singh requested the journalists not to broadcast that part where I spoke of Geelani's innocence.


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## third eye

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> I could care less what the verdict is.
> 
> More Parliament attacks and more 26/11s will probably continue to take place as long as you kill Kashmiris, occupy them and then expect there'd be no backlash.
> 
> *If someone did that to me in my home land, i'd fight them back too.*
> 
> Mukti bahini were easy to arm and indoctrinate b/c of GoPs callous attitude towards bangalia. Similar logic applies here (though we dont even need to arm or train Kashmiris)
> 
> morally, i do believe that the freedom struggle of Kashmir is a just cause so while i dont think Parliament type attack was productive for Kashmiri cause - i certainly wasn't crying tears that day that's for sure



One does not see anyone fighting the drones.

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## janon

third eye said:


> One does not see anyone fighting the drones.



It's easy for people like him to come on the internet and brag. But when foreigners pound his homeland day in and day out, using drone strikes and commando raids, all he can do is watch helplessly.

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## karan.1970

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> The govt authorizes those strikes. If I were in charge things would be a helluva lot different but I'm not



Any evidence of that ?? Your complete establishment seems to be crying like a baby in front of every world body that cares (or not) to stop these drone strikes.. Frankly this seems like a another conspiracy theory to salvage some pride... Its like saying, "we ourselves authorize the killing of our citizens and its not as if USA can come in and kill them at will "



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> I have smelled the stench of your dead soldiers though



I have not.. But I see the news clippings almost every day about your dead soldiers though.. But how is that related to the topic.?

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## nForce

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> The govt authorizes those strikes. If I were in charge things would be a helluva lot different but I'm not
> 
> I have smelled the stench of your dead soldiers though




Oh yeah?? Govt. authorized strikes? That is the way it is?Well,we all knows about that,people have lost count how many times the Interior Ministry of Pakistan have lodged a _formal_ complaint about violating Pakistani Airspace and killing anybody and everybody.The strike on Osama? Was that authorized too? Also,when you talk about authority,what is the authority in charge in Pakistan?

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## EagleEyes

Just FYI celebrating the death of any person is against the rules.

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## Kompromat

Rest In Peace.


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## Iggy

WebMaster said:


> Just FYI *celebrating the death of any person *is against the rules.



Just wanted to clarify, even if it is a terrorist??


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## KRAIT

fallstuff said:


> I bet you fair and lovely cops grabbed the first muslim guy in beard they could get their hands on.


Yup. Bingo.


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## EagleEyes

seiko said:


> Just wanted to clarify, even if it is a terrorist??



Yes, if that is what you want to call him.

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## Capt.Popeye

Those who live by the Bomb and Bullet are doomed to die on the Gallows!
R.I.H. Guru.

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## KRAIT

WebMaster said:


> Yes, if that is what you want to call him.



Lets honor a simple unsaid rule, to treat terrorists as same, as they kill innocents. They all needs to be damned. 

Or apply same rules for everyone. 

Oh wait, those who kill innocent Indians are not terrorists, but freedom fighters. Sorry to bother you.

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## EagleEyes

KRAIT said:


> Lets honor a simple unsaid rule, to treat terrorists as same, as they kill innocents. They all needs to be damned.
> 
> Or apply same rules for everyone.
> 
> Oh wait, those who kill innocent Indians are not terrorists, but freedom fighters. Sorry to bother you.



The rule is simple. Don't celebrate the death of a human being.


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## KRAIT

WebMaster said:


> Just FYI celebrating the death of any person is against the rules.


If I am not wrong, @Aeronaut was celebrating death of that US Army Sniper. 

Aero, kindly confirm. 

You bad boy.


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## Iggy

WebMaster said:


> Yes, if that is what you want to call him.



Sorry I asked you!! 

He himself told in interview that he done it for the money!! There are plenty of videos for that..


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## karan.1970

WebMaster said:


> Yes, if that is what you want to call him.



He has been convicted and sentenced as such for an attack outside of a so called disputed area.. What else do you want to call him.. Because your thoughts on this would be a good guidance towards classifying other such situations in India and Pakistan as well..



WebMaster said:


> The rule is simple. Don't celebrate the death of a human being.



Does that apply to the deaths of people blowing up and attacking Pakistani citizens and military in KP, Balochistan and Sindh ?

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## EagleEyes

karan.1970 said:


> He has been convicted and sentenced as such for an attack outside of a so called disputed area.. What else do you want to call him.. Because your thoughts on this would be a good guidance towards classifying other such situations in India and Pakistan as well..
> 
> 
> 
> Does that apply to the deaths of people blowing up and attacking Pakistani citizens and military in KP, Balochistan and Sindh ?



Why is this so hard to understand? "The rule is simple. Don't celebrate the death of a human being."

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## KRAIT

WebMaster said:


> Why is this so hard to understand? "The rule is simple. Don't celebrate the death of a human being."


Because as in dialogue in Shawshank Redemption, Red (Morgan Freeman) tells Andy (Tim Robbins), *"They don't qualify as humans"* 

J/K

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## karan.1970

WebMaster said:


> Why is this so hard to understand? "The rule is simple. Don't celebrate the death of a human being."



Arent you giving too much respect to terrorists by calling them humans..?

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## KRAIT

karan.1970 said:


> Arent you giving too much respect to terrorists by calling them humans..?


I guess your fav. color is Pink.

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## haviZsultan

janon said:


> Everyone let him defend himself, with legal advice. He was tried in the lower courts, found guilty, made full use of his constitutional rights to appeal to higher courts, all the way to the supreme court. Every court found him guilty. After that, he was allowed to beg for mercy from the president. So don't say nobody bothered to ask if he was guilty. Yes we did. India is a country where everyone, even Pakistani terrorists like kasab are given a free and fair trial before hanging from a noose.
> 
> I can think of many other countries where there would have been no trial, but just a hellfire missile landing on him unexpectedly, or turning up in a ditch somewhere with torture marks across his body. India tried him to the full extent possible before executing him. Fed and clothed him all the while, for 11 years. What more should we do, to prove his guilt?



Thanked for the first part. But I know about what the courts actually are. I don't know if it was a judge or lawyer in Hyderabad who suggested one of our members of family on Indian side to go to Pakistan after he wanted to start litigation against attacks on Muslims post-Gujarat in Hyderabad, particularly the police who jailed innocents. 

It would be nice if someone figured out if he was innocent. I believe India's courts are over-jingoistic with the trials of suspected terrorists and Pakistan's are too nonchalant. I still have to find the perfect model though. All of Kashmir is in tears nonetheless. Protests to be held today and tommarow.


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## karan.1970

haviZsultan said:


> Thanked for the first part. But I know about what the courts actually are. I don't know if it was a judge or lawyer in Hyderabad who suggested one of our members of family on Indian side to go to Pakistan after he wanted to start litigation against attacks on Muslims post-Gujarat in Hyderabad, particularly the police who jailed innocents.
> 
> *It would be nice if someone figured out if he was innocent. *I believe India's courts are over-jingoistic with the trials of suspected terrorists and Pakistan's are too nonchalant. I still have to find the perfect model though. All of Kashmir is in tears nonetheless. Protests to be held today and tommarow.



See 2:40 onwards..

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## Capt.Popeye

haviZsultan said:


> I believe India's courts are over-jingoistic with the trials of suspected terrorists and Pakistan's are too nonchalant. .



For one thing, Courts in India are not deciding on the "price of samosas". That really must be over-jingoistic! 
What you believe is what you believe! What we see is what we know.

So the terrorists are being taken care off accordingly.


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## haviZsultan

KRAIT said:


> Well one can say about all the terrorists targeted of TTP by PA might be innocent even when they have no concrete proof like India have against him.
> 
> Stop this hypocritic attitude. He was judged as guilty by Supreme Court of India which is way better than you courts.
> 
> So stop pitching this idiotic idea that he might be innocent.



Kashmir thinks he is innocent:

https://www.facebook.com/MAfzalGuru

Mir thinks so too:



> I think Afzal Guru was innocent, says Hamid Mir
> Islamabad, Feb 9, 2013 (IANS)
> 
> Afzal Guru was "innocent", said Pakistani journalist and TV anchor Hamid Mir after the man, convicted for his central role in the attack on the Indian parliament, was hanged in New Delhi Saturday.
> 
> "...I think he was innocent but hanged in India," tweeted Hamid Mir.
> 
> Nine people were killed in the Dec 13, 2001 Indian parliament attack when five heavily-armed Pakistani terrorists drove into the parliament complex and opened fire. There were about 100 MPs in the building at the time of the attack. The terrorists were shot dead.



And Arundhati roy:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/234077-afzal-guru-innocent-arundhati-roy.html

Finally Omar Abdullah's government is being blamed:

Omar can't disown hanging decision: Mehbooba - Kashmir Times


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## janon

haviZsultan said:


> Thanked for the first part. But I know about what the courts actually are. I don't know if it was a judge or lawyer in Hyderabad who suggested one of our members of family on Indian side to go to Pakistan after he wanted to start litigation against attacks on Muslims post-Gujarat in Hyderabad, particularly the police who jailed innocents.
> 
> It would be nice if someone figured out if he was innocent. I believe India's courts are over-jingoistic with the trials of suspected terrorists and Pakistan's are too nonchalant. I still have to find the perfect model though. All of Kashmir is in tears nonetheless. Protests to be held today and tommarow.



All of Kashmir is in tears? The biggest demonstration in Kashmir consisted of 50 people. If you think Indian kashmiris would weep for a convicted terrorist who killed people for money (by his own admission in the interviews he gave), you are confusing them with their counterparts on the other side of the border. Sure, there will be a protest or two. But what makes you think that 32 million people will cry for this a-hole who attacked the seat of our democracy and killed our policemen in Delhi?

The only reason you say "all of Kashmir is in tears" is because you have bought hook, line and sinker into the Pakistani fiction about kashmiris being oppressed b evil India and kashmiris all yearning for freedom. I cannot correct your perceptions on this, so I wouldn't try.

Whether you like it or not, Indian kashmiris are Indians, and a handful of separatists here and there do not represent a state of 32 million or so people. Kashmiris enjoy every freedom and right guaranteed to every Indian by the constitution, AND THEN SOME MORE.

The longer you persist with this delusion of poor, oppressed kashmiris wanting to be free from india, and keep working to "assist" them via terrorists and other proxies, the more your own land will burn. I don't know when you will realize this. Op Gibraltar failed, every other attempt you made to "liberate" Kashmir ended with the "liberators" dead or in jail. Kashmiris are happy to be Indians, and better off for being Indians. The last thing they want is sympathy from people who are worse off than them in every way.

As for India's courts being over jingoistic - the fact that our courts have executed three people in the last decade, in a country of 1.2 billion people waging war with foreign funded separatist groups and internal naxal groups, should tell you that our courts are nothing of the sort. Yes, a grand total of THREE (!) people have been executed by our courts in ten years. This guy, ajmal kasab, and dhananjoy chatterjee (for the rape and murder of a minor girl). Name another country with the death penalty that has executed fewer people. Jingoistic, my foot.

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## karan.1970

haviZsultan said:


> Kashmir thinks he is innocent:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/MAfzalGuru
> 
> Mir thinks so too:
> 
> 
> 
> And Arundhati roy:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/234077-afzal-guru-innocent-arundhati-roy.html
> 
> Finally Omar Abdullah's government is being blamed:
> 
> Omar can't disown hanging decision: Mehbooba - Kashmir Times



See his on tape confession above.. His guilt was never in doubt.. Only whether he should get death penalty or not..

Rest is all politics

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## Iggy

haviZsultan said:


> Kashmir thinks he is innocent:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/MAfzalGuru
> 
> Mir thinks so too:
> 
> 
> 
> And Arundhati roy:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/234077-afzal-guru-innocent-arundhati-roy.html
> 
> Finally Omar Abdullah's government is being blamed:
> 
> Omar can't disown hanging decision: Mehbooba - Kashmir Times




What you have to say about the video which Karan posted?? Everybody thinks he is innocent, but he himself is saying thta he aided the terrorists oops freedom fighters.


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## nForce

haviZsultan said:


> Kashmir thinks he is innocent:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/MAfzalGuru
> 
> Mir thinks so too:
> 
> 
> 
> And Arundhati roy:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/234077-afzal-guru-innocent-arundhati-roy.html
> 
> Finally Omar Abdullah's government is being blamed:
> 
> Omar can't disown hanging decision: Mehbooba - Kashmir Times



Baseless opinions dont matter...He committed a supreme act of crime,admitted to it and was punished for it.
End of story......


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## janon

haviZsultan said:


> Kashmir thinks he is innocent:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/MAfzalGuru
> 
> Mir thinks so too:
> 
> 
> 
> And Arundhati roy:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/234077-afzal-guru-innocent-arundhati-roy.html
> 
> Finally Omar Abdullah's government is being blamed:
> 
> Omar can't disown hanging decision: Mehbooba - Kashmir Times



Of course there will be the odd attention seekers here and there, like Arundhati roy. But if she had a case to make, she could have done so in the courts that tried him. Her personal opinion is precisely that - her personal opinion. Several trials in several courts, all known for being completely apolitical, have all found him guilty, and in a functioning democracy, that is what matters - the verdict reached through due process of law. Not the personal opinion of a columnist or politician.

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## karan.1970

seiko said:


> What you have to say about the video which Karan posted?? Everybody thinks he is innocent, but he himself is saying thta he aided the terrorists oops freedom fighters.



If he is innocent, then so is every single TTP and BLA militant killed by Pakistani forces in Pakistan.. Words are cheap.. It seems logic is even cheaper here on the forum

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## haviZsultan

janon said:


> All of Kashmir is in tears? The biggest demonstration in Kashmir consisted of 50 people. If you think Indian kashmiris would weep for a convicted terrorist who killed people for money (by his own admission in the interviews he gave), you are confusing them with their counterparts on the other side of the border. Sure, there will be a protest or two. But what makes you think that 32 million people will cry for this a-hole who attacked the seat of our democracy and killed our policemen in Delhi?
> 
> The only reason you say "all of Kashmir is in tears" is because you have bought hook, line and sinker into the Pakistani fiction about kashmiris being oppressed b evil India and kashmiris all yearning for freedom. I cannot correct your perceptions on this, so I wouldn't try.
> 
> Whether you like it or not, Indian kashmiris are Indians, and a handful of separatists here and there do not represent a state of 32 million or so people. Kashmiris enjoy every freedom and right guaranteed to every Indian by the constitution, AND THEN SOME MORE.
> 
> The longer you persist with this delusion of poor, oppressed kashmiris wanting to be free from india, and keep working to "assist" them via terrorists and other proxies, the more your own land will burn. I don't know when you will realize this. Op Gibraltar failed, every other attempt you made to "liberate" Kashmir ended with the "liberators" dead or in jail. Kashmiris are happy to be Indians, and better off for being Indians. The last thing they want is sympathy from people who are worse off than them in every way.
> 
> As for India's courts being over jingoistic - the fact that our courts have executed three people in the last decade, in a country of 1.2 billion people waging war with foreign funded separatist groups and internal naxal groups, should tell you that our courts are nothing of the sort. Yes, a grand total of THREE (!) people have been executed by our courts in ten years. This guy, ajmal kasab, and dhananjoy chatterjee (for the rape and murder of a minor girl). Name another country with the death penalty that has executed fewer people. Jingoistic, my foot.



Isn't there a curfew in Kashmir after Afzal guru's hanging? How can anyone protest unless they want to get shot?



> Indian Kashmir on edge after terror convict hanged
> 
> (AP) &#8211; 36 minutes ago
> 
> SRINAGAR, India (AP) &#8212; Most of Indian Kashmir is paralyzed as a strict curfew imposed after the execution of a Kashmiri man convicted in a deadly 2001 attack on India's Parliament remains in effect.
> 
> Mohammed Afzal Guru was hanged in New Delhi early Saturday, triggering protests across Indian Kashmir and prompting authorities to order people in most of the region to remain indoors indefinitely. Police say 23 policemen and 13 protesters were injured in Saturday's demonstrations.
> 
> Tens of thousands of security troops are fanned out across the Himalayan region.
> 
> Cable television and mobile Internet services have been shut down in most parts of the region, and most local newspapers were not available Sunday. One major paper said police came to its offices and asked management to hold off publishing Sunday's edition.


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## Iggy

karan.1970 said:


> If he is innocent, then so is every single TTP and BLA militant killed by Pakistani forces in Pakistan.. Words are cheap.. It seems logic is even cheaper here on the forum



Kind of funny, we provided video evidence and links showing that he himself admitting he aided the terrorists and some people still arguing that he is innocent.. Now we can see he will start rant about what his relative from India told him about Afzal Guru's trial and how innocent he was..


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## haviZsultan

janon said:


> Of course there will be the odd attention seekers here and there, like Arundhati roy. But if she had a case to make, she could have done so in the courts that tried him. Her personal opinion is precisely that - her personal opinion. Several trials in several courts, all known for being completely apolitical, have all found him guilty, and in a functioning democracy, that is what matters - the verdict reached through due process of law. Not the personal opinion of a columnist or politician.



I believe I will not spend time on this further but I do believe it should be noted that there are a number of people who continue to hold that he is innocent and has been framed on false charges of terrorism. This is the other side of the story. I can see the polarization in Indian society as Muslims either avoid the topic, claim Afzal is innocent while the majority is unshakably convinced that Afzal is indeed a terrorist. Neither has full proof and as Arundhati noted in her article the evidence is circumstancial rather than solid.


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## nForce

haviZsultan said:


> Isn't there a curfew in Kashmir after Afzal guru's hanging? How can anyone protest unless they want to get shot?



does a protest mean Afzal Guru is innocent ? Baluch people are protesting for decades against Pakistan.By your logic,they should be right as well.


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## livingdead

He confessed his involvement and was not really apologetic about it. He demanded to be hanged many times which really did not help his case.
One can blame the govt for timing and intension. Kashmiris think he is innocent because lot of ordinary innocent kashmiris were victimized. Very few of them actually get jail sentence though.

Omar Abdullah is being put into a tough situation, it is true.


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## janon

haviZsultan said:


> Isn't there a curfew in Kashmir after Afzal guru's hanging? How can anyone protest unless they want to get shot?



And you know why there is a curfew? Because the state police forces (all kashmiris, mind you) want to ensure that a handful of protestors don't make life miserable for the rest of Kashmir, by indulging in violence. It is a protective measure to ensure the safety, security and well being of kashmiris. Everybody knows that there are paid protestors who will incite violence at the behest of devious foreign elements using every single opportunity.

Now tell me, how did you come to the conclusion that "all of Kashmir is weeping", when by your own admission they aren't? And by the way, there is no curfew against peaceful protests anywhere. The precautions are only to prevent violence. The number of peaceful protestors is a handful, as usual.

If there were no paid protestors and troublemakers funded from across the border, even these curfews could have been avoided. The only thing making life difficult for kashmiris is this "help" from across the border by a nation that has deluded itself into believing that kashmiris in India want to be "freed" from Indian "occupation". Every other state of India is more under "Indian occupation", since no other state enjoys as many rights and freedoms as the people of Kashmir do.

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## haviZsultan

seiko said:


> Kind of funny, we provided video evidence and links showing that he himself admitting he aided the terrorists and some people still arguing that he is innocent.. Now we can see he will start rant about what his relative from India told him about Afzal Guru's trial and how innocent he was..



You guys hate me because I post on Indian threads? The purpose of the site is debate, not having one line of thought. If you are here to agree with everyone and share coffee you, Fateh, KS and everyone who seems to have a constant problem with any member commenting on the Indian forum should not be on a forum but attacking Kashmiris that say they want to be with Pakistan.



nForce said:


> does a protest mean Afzal Guru is innocent ? Baluch people are protesting for decades against Pakistan.By your logic,they should be right as well.



Absolutely, depending on the grievance... I do not apply selective logic.



janon said:


> And you know why there is a curfew? Because the state police forces (all kashmiris, mind you) want to ensure that a handful of protestors don't make life miserable for the rest of Kashmir, by indulging in violence. It is a protective measure to ensure the safety, security and well being of kashmiris. Everybody knows that there are paid protestors who will incite violence at the behest of devious foreign elements using every single opportunity.
> 
> Now tell me, how did you come to the conclusion that "all of Kashmir is weeping", when by your own admission they aren't? And by the way, there is no curfew against peaceful protests anywhere. The precautions are only to prevent violence. The number of peaceful protestors is a handful, as usual.
> *
> If there were no paid protestors and troublemakers funded from across the border, even these curfews could have been avoided. The only thing making life difficult for kashmiris is this "help" from across the border by a nation that has deluded itself into believing that kashmiris in India want to be "freed" from Indian "occupation".* Every other state of India is more under "Indian occupation", since no other state enjoys as many rights and freedoms as the people of Kashmir do.



This sounds like a conspiracy theory... proving Indians too have their own. How can Pakistanis organize protests in Srinagar in a day?


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## nForce

haviZsultan said:


> You guys hate me because I post on Indian threads? The purpose of the site is debate, not having one line of thought. If you are here to agree with everyone and share coffee you, Fateh, KS and everyone who seems to have a constant problem with any member commenting on the Indian forum should not be on a forum but attacking Kashmiris that say they want to be with Pakistan.




The purpose,here,is to enlighten you with the truth.You are already loaded with a preoccupation that Afzal was innocent.But he admitted to his crimes himself.Simple logic,he was guilty.


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## Capt.Popeye

haviZsultan said:


> Neither has full proof and as Arundhati noted in her article the evidence is circumstancial rather than solid.



*Three courts have heard the matter and ruled on the matter of Afzal Guru. These were properly constituted Courts which followed due process of law.* Not Courts that decide the price of samosas.

Arundhoti is no jurist; not by a loooooong shot. She is not even an investigative journalist. She is simply a "writer of fiction". That speaks for itself.

BTW, take the time and view the video that @Karan1970. has posted where Guru has spoken about his and his co-conspirators' roles.

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## janon

haviZsultan said:


> I believe I will not spend time on this further but I do believe it should be noted that there are a number of people who continue to hold that he is innocent and has been framed on false charges of terrorism. This is the other side of the story. I can see the polarization in Indian society as Muslims either avoid the topic, claim Afzal is innocent while the majority is unshakably convinced that Afzal is indeed a terrorist. Neither has full proof and as Arundhati noted in her article the evidence is circumstancial rather than solid.



As I said before - the personal opinion of a columnist is just that. Indians have complete faith in our judiciary, and just because you say you don't, we won't lose that faith. If the Indian judiciary was unfair, there would have been a lot more convictions and a lot more executions in the past decade, and not just three.

Indian courts do not convict somebody unless his guilt is proved beyond a shadow of doubt. India has one of the lowest conviction rates in the world, precisely because of this. Ask any Indian lawyer, and s/he will tell you how difficult it is to get a conviction. Which is why every lawyer wishes to be on the defence team, and not the prosecution.

He was tried by the lower courts, the high court and finally the supreme court, all of which found him guilty. If the evidence was only circumstantial, it would not have happened, no matter what Arundhati Roy thinks. You are beliving Arundhati Roy only because she happens to be saying what you want to hear.

And no, there is no polarization or hindu-muslim divide in Indian society about this. That too is a figment of your imagination, like you earlier assertion that the whole of Kashmir is crying. Now I have to ask how you came to the conclusion of a religious polarization. Was it based on any scientifically conducted surverys, or was it yet another "fact" you made up because you want to believe that?

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## Iggy

haviZsultan said:


> You guys hate me because I post on Indian threads? The purpose of the site is debate, not having one line of thought. If you are here to agree with everyone and share coffee you, Fateh, KS and everyone who seems to have a constant problem with any member commenting on the Indian forum should not be on a forum but attacking Kashmiris that say they want to be with Pakistan.




Ohh Havi, why you think we are hating you? Are you the only Pakistani posting in Indian threads? The problem with you is, if you dont have anything to say and your arguments were countered by Indians, you start the daily rant of how muslims were killed by Indians, how Hydrabad wanted to be a with Pakistan and Why Pakistan should claim Lucknow all the above because your distant relative told you so.. What kind of logic are you bringing into discussion? For godsake, you are a Jr.TT.. atleast act like one.. You talked about how Anzaris were tortured here in India and one Anzari, Imran_ind refuted your claim brilliantly, then again you started the rant about what your distant relatives told you.. Here also you were talking about a Judge asked a Muslim to move to Pakistan.. What kind of nonsese is that? If this is happend it would have been a big news here in India.. I told you in another thread, some of your posts are very awesome to read, but the reputation you are making with those posts are lost when you start ranting and type nonsense.. Apart from what your relative said, you have not provided any valid links for your claims..

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## karan.1970

haviZsultan said:


> Neither has full proof and as Arundhati noted in her article the evidence is circumstancial rather than solid.


After a on video confession, this is as stupid an argument as it can be

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## livingdead

@janon I think lot of people in valey think he is innocent, not everybody has seen the interview. Also lot of people seem to think he actually did not commit crime hence should get less sentence (which in reality is opposite, kasab has better chance of avoiding gallows if he could prove that young age and circumstances forced him)

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## nForce

seiko said:


> Ohh Havi, why you think we are hating you? Are you the only Pakistani posting in Indian threads? The problem with you is, if you dont have anything to say and your arguments were countered by Indians, you start the daily rant of how muslims were killed by Indians, how Hydrabad wanted to be a with Pakistan and Why Pakistan should claim Lucknow all the above because your distant relative told you so.. What kind of logic are you bringing into discussion? For godsake, you are a Jr.TT.. atleast act like one.. You talked about how Anzaris were tortured here in India and one Anzari, Imran_ind refuted your claim brilliantly, then again you started the rant about what your distant relatives told you.. Here also you were talking about a Judge asked a Muslim to move to Pakistan.. What kind of nonsese is that? If this is happend it would have been a big news here in India.. I told you in another thread, some of your posts are very awesome to read, but the reputation you are making with those posts are lost when you start ranting and type nonsense.. Apart from what your relative said, you have not provided any valid links for your claims..



He is giving the grand-papa of all arguments..Why this is right? Because my mother-in-law told me so...

Why Afzal is innocent?because there is a curfew at Kashmir and some attention seeker columnist wrote an article that was perhaps paid for by the number of words.

One more time...personal opinions dont matter for Indian Judiciary,evidences matter.I dont know how it is in Pakistan.


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## ashok321

Cassandra Arundhoti Roy, the less said the better......



> IN the end Arundhati Roy went quietly. Through the rusty gates of New Delhi's Tihar prison, and onto a wing with the waiting hardcases. The Booker Prize-winning author of The God of Small Things claimed that she was being jailed for expressing an opinion, but nobody insults India's Supreme Court and gets away with it. As the judges might have told her: "Don't cross the line if you can't do the time."





> Called upon to explain herself, Miss Roy sent in a rip-snorting affidavit, which accused the court of trying to "harass and intimidate those who disagree with it". The court was outraged. "Whatever may be the motive of Roy," declared a panel of the judges: "It is quite obvious that she has decided to misuse her literary fame by misinforming the public and projecting in a totally incorrect manner the proceedings."



This Osama lover AR:



> Well, even if the Taliban had it coming, who says Afghanistan's foremost cave-dweller, Osama bin Laden, was guilty of anything? "People are being asked," tutted Arundhati, "to assume that the enemy is who the US Government says it is even though it has no substantial evidence to support that claim."



Who was she?



> The daughter of a tea planter, she had been raised in Kerala, in the south of the country, but after her parents split up she'd drifted off on her own, and *by 18 she was living in a tin hut in a Delhi slum, foraging in rubbish tips for beer bottles that she would wash and sell for a handful of rupees*.



Lol baba lol @ Migraine of India.....

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## Iggy

@haviZsultan no body attacked Kashmiris when they said they wanted to be with Pakistan.. They are allowed to leave the country.. The police and CRPF retaliate only when they tried to enforce this up on others and wanted to show it to government through Guns and stones.. You cannot take Govt of Kashmir as a hostage with some anti social elements..


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## haviZsultan

seiko said:


> Ohh Havi, why you think we are hating you? Are you the only Pakistani posting in Indian threads? The problem with you is, if you dont have anything to say and your arguments were countered by Indians, you start the daily rant of how muslims were killed by Indians, how Hydrabad wanted to be a with Pakistan and Why Pakistan should claim Lucknow all the above because your distant relative told you so.. What kind of logic are you bringing into discussion? For godsake, you are a Jr.TT.. atleast act like one.. You talked about how Anzaris were tortured here in India and one Anzari, Imran_ind refuted your claim brilliantly, then again you started the rant about what your distant relatives told you.. Here also you were talking about a Judge asked a Muslim to move to Pakistan.. I told you in another thread, some of your posts are very awesome to read, but the reputation you are making with those posts are lost when you start ranting and type nonsense.. Apart from what your relative said, you have not provided any valid links for your claims..


 @imran_ind is not an Ansari... lol. Are you?
If he is he is a brother to me regardless of which house he is from. We are from Firangi mahal. Imran do you deny these things happen and may happen to people (Muslims) in India. You might not have met such families as it happens to a small proportion but... I doubt he will deny this. 

I am talking about the posts that usually go like:

You are an idiot
You are shizophrenic
You are not a fit think tank. lol. As if Indians now decide who is fit and who is not. 



> *What kind of nonsese is that? If this is happend it would have been a big news here in India..*



Ignorance is bliss! You want posts that are only positive. I try to circumvent this by criticizing both India and Pakistan but it is your incapability to think there is another side to the issue. Infact a lot of Muslim families discuss the framing of innocent Muslims in the confines of their houses. Why would our families tell you? So that you declare them Pakistani and send mobs saying mini-Pakistan, mini-Pakistan...


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## nForce

haviZsultan said:


> @imran_ind is not an Ansari... lol. Are you?
> If he is he is a brother to me regardless of which house he is from. We are from Firangi mahal. Imran do you deny these things happen and may happen to people (Muslims) in India. You might not have met such families as it happens to a small proportion but... I doubt he will deny this.
> 
> I am talking about the posts that usually go like:
> 
> You are an idiot
> You are shizophrenic
> You are not a fit think tank. lol. As if Indians now decide who is fit and who is not.
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorance is bliss! You want posts that are only positive.* I try to circumvent this by criticizing both India and Pakistan *but it is your incapability to think there is another side to the issue. Infact a lot of Muslim families discuss the framing of innocent Muslims in the confines of their houses. Why would our families tell you? So that you declare them Pakistani and send mobs saying mini-Pakistan, mini-Pakistan...



You may criticize Pakistan,thats your choice,but we are not accepting any baseless criticism of India.
Now,stick to the topic.


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## Spring Onion

nForce said:


> The purpose,here,is to enlighten you with the truth.You are already loaded with a preoccupation that Afzal was innocent.But he admitted to his crimes himself.Simple logic,he was guilty.




*The Truth about Afzal Guru and Indian trial *




Wasnt it? Yesterday I mean. Spring announced itself in Delhi. The sun was out, and the Law took its Course. Just before breakfast, Afzal Guru, prime accused in the 2001 Parliament Attack was secretly hanged, and his body was interred in Tihar Jail. Was he buried next to Maqbool Butt? (The other Kashmiri who was hanged in Tihar in 1984. Kashmiris will mark that anniversary tomorrow.) Afzals wife and son were not informed. The Authorities intimated the family through Speed Post and Registered Post, the Home Secretary told the press, the Director General of J&K Police has been told to check whether they got it or not. No big deal, theyre only the family of a Kashmiri terrorist. 


In a moment of rare unity the Nation, or at least its major political parties, the Congress, the BJP and the CPM came together as one (barring a few squabbles about delay and timing) to celebrate the triumph of the Rule of Law. The Conscience of the Nation, which broadcasts live from TV studios these days, unleashed its collective intellect on us  the usual cocktail of papal passion and a delicate grip on facts. Even though the man was dead and gone, like cowards that hunt in packs, they seemed to need each other to keep their courage up. Perhaps because deep inside themselves they know that they all colluded to do something terribly wrong. 


*What are the facts? *


On the 13th of December 2001 five armed men drove through the gates of the Parliament House in a white Ambassador fitted out with an Improvised Explosive Device. When they were challenged they jumped out of the car and opened fire. They killed eight security personnel and a gardener. In the gun battle that followed, all five attackers were killed. 


*In one of the many versions of confessions he made in police custody, Afzal Guru identified the men as Mohammed, Rana, Raja, Hamza and Haider. Thats all we know about them even today. L.K. Advani, the then Home Minister, said they looked like Pakistanis. (He should know what Pakistanis look like right? Being a Sindhi himself.) Based only on Afzals confession (which the Supreme Court subsequently set aside citing lapses and violations of procedural safeguards)* 
the Government of India recalled its Ambassador from Pakistan and mobilised half a million soldiers to the Pakistan border. There was talk of nuclear war. Foreign embassies issued Travel Advisories and evacuated their staff from Delhi. The standoff lasted for months and cost India thousands of crores. 


On the 14th of December 2001 the Delhi Police Special Cell claimed it had cracked the case. On the 15th of December it arrested the master mind Professor S.A.R Geelani in Delhi and Showkat Guru and Afzal Guru in a fruit market in Srinagar. Subsequently they arrested Afsan Guru, Showkats wife. The media enthusiastically disseminated the Special Cells version. These were some of the headlines: DU Lecturer was Terror Plan Hub, Varsity Don Guided Fidayeen, Don Lectured on Terror in Free Time. Zee TV broadcast a docudrama called December 13th , a recreation that claimed to be the Truth Based on the Police Charge Sheet. (If the police version is the truth, then why have courts?) Then Prime Minister Vajpayee and L.K. Advani publicly appreciated the film. 


The Supreme Court refused to stay the screening saying that the media would not influence judges. The film was broadcast only a few days before the fast track court sentenced Afzal, Showkat and Geelani to death. Subsequently the High Court acquitted the mastermind, Professor S.A.R Geelani, and Afsan Guru. The Supreme Court upheld the acquittal. But in its 5th August 2005 judgment it gave Mohammed Afzal three life sentences and a double death sentence. 


*Contrary to the lies that have been put about by some senior journalists who would have known better, Afzal Guru was not one of the terrorists who stormed Parliament House on December 13th 2001 nor was he among those who opened fire on security personnel, apparently killing three of the six who died. (That was the BJP Rajya Sabha MP, Chandan Mitra, in The Pioneer, October 7th 2006). Even the police charge sheet does not accuse him of that. The Supreme Court judgment says the evidence is circumstantial:** As is the case with most conspiracies, there is and could be no direct evidence amounting to criminal conspiracy. But then it goes on to say: The incident, which resulted in heavy casualties had shaken the entire nation, and the collective conscience of society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender. *

Who crafted our collective conscience on the Parliament Attack case? Could it have been the facts we gleaned from the papers? The films we saw on TV? 


There are those who will argue that the very fact that the courts acquitted S.A.R Geelani and convicted Afzal proves that the trial was free and fair. Was it? 


The trial in the fast-track court began in May 2002. The world was still convulsed by post 9/11 frenzy. The US government was gloating prematurely over its victory in Afghanistan. The Gujarat pogrom was ongoing. And in the Parliament Attack case, the Law was indeed taking its own course. At the most crucial stage of a criminal case, when evidence is presented, when witnesses are cross-examined, when the foundations of the argument are laid  in the High Court and the Supreme Court you can only argue points of law, you cannot introduce new evidence  Afzal Guru, locked in a high security solitary cell, had no lawyer. The court-appointed junior lawyer did not visit his client even once in jail, he did not summon any witnesses in Afzals defence and did not cross examine the prosecution witnesses. The judge expressed his inability to do anything about the situation. 

Even still, from the word go, the case fell apart. A few examples out of many: 


*How did the police get to Afzal? They said that S.A.R Geelani led them to him. But the court records show that the message to arrest Afzal went out before they picked up Geelani. The High Court called this a material contradiction but left it at that. *

*
The two most incriminating pieces of evidence against Afzal were a cellphone and a laptop confiscated at the time of arrest. The Arrest Memos were signed by Bismillah, Geelanis brother, in Delhi. The Seizure Memos were signed by two men of the J&K Police, one of them an old tormentor from Afzals past as a surrendered militant. The computer and cellphone were not sealed, as evidence is required to be. During the trial it emerged that the hard disc of the laptop had been accessed after the arrest. It only contained the fake home ministry passes and the fake identity cards that the terrorists used to access Parliament. And a Zee TV video clip of Parliament House. So according to the police, Afzal had deleted all the information except the most incriminating bits, and he was speeding off to hand it over to Ghazi Baba, who the charge sheet described as the Chief of Operations. *


*A witness for the prosecution, Kamal Kishore, identified Afzal and told the court he had sold him the crucial SIM card that connected all the accused in the case to each other on the 4th of December 2001. But the prosecutions own call records showed that the SIM was actually operational from November 6th 2001. *

*It goes on and on, this pile up of lies and fabricated evidence. The courts note them, but for their pains the police get no more than a gentle rap on their knuckles. Nothing more. *

Then theres the back story. Like most surrendered militants Afzal was easy meat in Kashmir  a victim of torture, blackmail, extortion. In the larger scheme of things he was a nobody. Anyone who was really interested in solving the mystery of the Parliament Attack would have followed the dense trail of evidence that was on offer. No one did, thereby ensuring that the real authors of conspiracy will remain unidentified and uninvestigated. 


But now that Afzal Guru has been hanged, I hope our collective conscience has been satisfied. Or is our cup of blood still only half full? 


The Hindu : Opinion / Lead : A perfect day for democracy


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## nForce

@Spring Onion


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## Bang Galore

Spring Onion said:


> *The Truth about Afzal Guru and Indian trial *



Nobody in India cares what Arundhati Roy has to say. As usual, what she leaves out (interview etc..) is more damning than what she puts in.

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## nForce

nForce said:


> @Spring Onion



There was no doubt about his crime.The only question was to hang him or not to hang him.


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## Spring Onion

Bang Galore said:


> Nobody in India cares what Arundhati Roy has to say. As usual, what she leaves out (interview etc..) is more damning than what she puts in.



Read what she said is documented during the trial.

all these points need to be answered.

at the end of the story is the fact that you found a scapgoat for not finding the truth

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## Iggy

haviZsultan said:


> @imran_ind is not an Ansari... lol. Are you?
> If he is he is a brother to me regardless of which house he is from. We are from Firangi mahal. Imran do you deny these things happen and may happen to people (Muslims) in India. You might not have met such families as it happens to a small proportion but... I doubt he will deny this.




I am not even a Muslim, but a Christian.. Do not start with your relative told you about how Christians are treated here in India.. I am not saying that we are a land of honey and milk.. Offcource, there are.. Our media, our people, our judicary etc acted against it and plight of the people were heard many times.. Our own government found out and acted against the so called saffron terrorism rather than pushing it under the carpet.. So dont talk about the bullshit of minorities are harmed all the time here in India.. Infact we are much better than minorities of any of the muslim countries..



> I am talking about the posts that usually go like:
> 
> You are an idiot
> You are shizophrenic
> You are not a fit think tank. lol. As if Indians now decide who is fit and who is not.



These kind of posts happens when you make tall claims and ask for proof, you will say your distant relative told you this.. Is it mandatory in this forum to provide valid links when you claim something? Or you think you have an exception for this??



> Ignorance is bliss! You want posts that are only positive. I try to circumvent this by criticizing both India and Pakistan but it is your incapability to think there is another side to the issue. Infact a lot of Muslim families discuss the framing of innocent Muslims in the confines of their houses. Why would our families tell you? So that you declare them Pakistani and send mobs saying mini-Pakistan, mini-Pakistan...



I am not saying I wanted only positive news.. You are welcome crticize my country and point us the problems of this country.. But I wanted valid evidence for that.. Not your rant about your relative told you so.. Dude, muslims have the right to speak out their mind and they practice their right all the times some times for some silly reasons too.. Latest expample is the protest against a film because it shows Terrorist read Quran.. I didnt see any one calling them terrorists or send mobs to their home saying mini Pakistan.. So stop your bullshit about that also..

As I said, feel free to crticize and say any ill things happend in our country.. But provide valid evidences for this.. Not the rant about what your relatives told you..

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## karan.1970

Spring Onion said:


> Read what she said is documented during the trial.
> 
> all these points need to be answered.
> 
> at the end of the story is the fact that you found a scapgoat for not finding the truth



No need to read any of that nonsense.. You may decide to and that's your prerogative 

The judiciary in India has taken a decision on this, which is good enough for us.. Thankfully, unlike our neighbor, our judiciary is not looking for excuses to let the terrorists go free..

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## Paan Singh

i feel sorry for the attackers.They should have killed every body in parliament.
India would have been better place


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## Spring Onion

karan.1970 said:


> No need to read any of that nonsense.. You may decide to and that's your prerogative
> 
> The judiciary in India has taken a decision on this, which is good enough for us.. Thankfully, unlike our neighbor, our judiciary is not looking for excuses to let the terrorists go free..



Your judiciary dont need any evidence to convict innocent people.

You failed to face the facts pointed in the story


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## haviZsultan

seiko said:


> I am not even a Muslim, but a Christian.. Do not start with your relative told you about how Christians are treated here in India.. I am not saying that we are a land of honey and milk.. Offcource, there are.. Our media, our people, our judicary etc acted against it and plight of the people were heard many times.. Our own government found out and acted against the so called saffron terrorism rather than pushing it under the carpet.. So dont talk about the bullshit of minorities are harmed all the time here in India.. Infact we are much better than minorities of any of the muslim countries..



I am a minority in my own land. Not in the sense of spirituality but in the sense of ideology. I support secularism and am myself a minority. So I sympathize with the plight of minorities worldwide.

Why does RSS still operate? Wasn't it an RSS thug who killed Gandhi ji?



> These kind of posts happens when you make tall claims and ask for proof, you will say your distant relative told you this.. Is it mandatory in this forum to provide valid links when you claim something? Or you think you have an exception for this??



You can choose to avoid or ignore my evidence. It is no concern. When I provide links which I did in the first post they are still an issue.


> I am not saying I wanted only positive news.. You are welcome crticize my country and point us the problems of this country.. But I wanted valid evidence for that.. Not your rant about your relative told you so.. Dude, muslims have the right to speak out their mind and they practice their right all the times some times for some silly reasons too.. Latest expample is the protest against a film because it shows Terrorist read Quran.. *I didnt see any one calling them terrorists or send mobs to their home saying mini Pakistan.. So stop your bullshit about that also..*



Happened in Gujarat. I can give you witness testimony. I gave you the judge example already. 



> As I said, feel free to crticize and say any ill things happend in our country.. But provide valid evidences for this.. Not the rant about what your relatives told you..



Lol. I think you are trying to deflect issues prevailing in your society. I will admit all families do not suffer but even if 5% of all Muslim families lose a relative in some act of violence it should be acted upon. Your police fails to act.


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## SamantK

Spring Onion said:


> Your judiciary dont need any evidence to convict innocent people.
> 
> You failed to face the facts pointed in the story



IMHO its the lawyers who failed to stress the facts presented, the investigation being shoddy only points to incompetence rather than being biased, I hope you understand that.


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## Bang Galore

Spring Onion said:


> Read what she said is documented during the trial.
> 
> all these points need to be answered.
> 
> at the end of the story is the fact that you found a scapgoat for not finding the truth



I actually did read that. However the video evidence is still there_(I don't think the courts concerned themselves with the video)_. So whatever he was, a innocent scapegoat was not one of them.

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## Spring Onion

samantk said:


> IMHO its the lawyers who failed to stress the facts presented, the investigation being shoddy only points to incompetence rather than being biased, I hope you understand that.



who's lawyers?

my point is simple i will copy past from the write up here hopefully you will understand 



Then there&#8217;s the back story. Like most surrendered militants Afzal was easy meat in Kashmir &#8212; a victim of torture, blackmail, extortion. In the larger scheme of things he was a nobody. *Anyone who was really interested in solving the mystery of the Parliament Attack would have followed the dense trail of evidence that was on offer. No one did, thereby ensuring that the real authors of conspiracy will remain unidentified and uninvestigated*

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/234051-afzal-guru-hanged-18.html#ixzz2KUYLXySK


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## Emmie

samantk said:


> IMHO its the lawyers who failed to stress the facts presented, the investigation being shoddy only points to incompetence rather than being biased, I hope you understand that.



Quite likely! I read somewhere that the lawyer appointed to Afzal was a junior one and did not visit him even once in jail . He neither summoned any witness in Afzal's defence nor cross examined the witnesses of the prosecution.


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## Iggy

haviZsultan said:


> I am a minority in my own land. Not in the sense of spirituality but in the sense of ideology. I support secularism and am myself a minority. So I sympathize with the plight of minorities worldwide.



Please don't.. Most of the problems happend to muslims and other minorities all over the world is because of the crocodile tears of Ummah and minority lovers like you... Just leave us alone and we are fine here in India.. I am living along with lot of Hindus around here and I am very much comfortable with them..


> Why does RSS still operate? Wasn't it an RSS thug who killed Gandhi ji?



Why you are bringing RSS here?? Going offtopic to offtopic here.. FYI Godse was an ex RSS guy who thought that RSS is not militant enough..

Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh was temporarily banned after the assasination of Gandhiji However, investigators could find no evidence that the RSS bureaucracy had formally sponsored or even knew of Godse's plot. The RSS ban was lifted by Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and Vallabhbhai Patel in 1949.[from Wiki]



> You can choose to avoid or ignore my evidence. It is no concern. When I provide links which I did in the first post they are still an issue.



What evidence? Links from Khalistan movment and Christian one newpaper? Yup, credible enough.. You can find even more credble links from rupee news




> Happened in Gujarat. I can give you witness testimony. I gave you the judge example already.



Gujrat was a riot between Hindus and Muslims, started with the burning of the Train carrying Hindus.. Don't say that Muslims were innocent there.. Both were equally responsible.. But I would like to see a link about what judge told..


> Lol. I think you are trying to deflect issues prevailing in your society. I will admit all families do not suffer but even if 5% of all Muslim families lose a relative in some act of violence it should be acted upon. Your police fails to act.




Where did you see I am trying to deflect issues prevailing in my society?? I said you are free to crticize my country with valid evidence which you find very hard to provide..


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## karan.1970

Spring Onion said:


> Your judiciary dont need any evidence to convict innocent people.



Our judiciary does not need the certification of performance from Pakistan (of all the countries)


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## haviZsultan

seiko said:


> Please don't.. Most of the problems happend to muslims and other minorities all over the world is because of the crocodile tears of Ummah and minority lovers like you... Just leave us alone and we are fine here in India.. I am living along with lot of Hindus around here and I am very much comfortable with them..



I am replying because this is amusing me. There are no problems, everything is in mantra and karma as isro2222 will put it. I said I am not a religious minority. You didn't understand the post. Now understand this:

Sixth Sick Sheik's Sixth Sheep's Sick





> Why you are bringing RSS here?? Going offtopic to offtopic here.. FYI Godse was an ex RSS guy who thought that RSS is not militant enough..



There never seems to be enough proof of anything in India... only proof that Afzal Guru is a terrorist. 

Now you know why Afzal Guru is innocent. 



> Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh was temporarily banned after the assasination of Gandhiji However, investigators could find no evidence that the RSS bureaucracy had formally sponsored or even knew of Godse's plot. The RSS ban was lifted by Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and Vallabhbhai Patel in 1949.[from Wiki]



But it still operates and one of its ex-members is always found guilty-



> Kamal Chauhan a former RSS member confessed that he planted a bomb





> What evidence? Links from Khalistan movment and Christian one newpaper? Yup, credible enough.. You can find even more credble links from rupee news



You deny Kandhamal riots took place. Fun Christian you are?



> Gujrat was a riot between Hindus and Muslims, started with the burning of the Train carrying Hindus.. Don't say that Muslims were innocent there.. Both were equally responsible.. But I would like to see a link about what judge told..



I am not sure he was a judge or lawyer. He said it outside the courtroom. I will write an article on it someday and provide the link. In fact post it online? Happy?



> Where did you see I am trying to deflect issues prevailing in my society?? I said you are free to crticize my country with valid evidence which you find very hard to provide..



Considering every valid evidence will be shown as evidence that is not valid... I have doubts how that will work.


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## Emmie

karan.1970 said:


> No need to read any of that nonsense.. You may decide to and that's your prerogative
> 
> The judiciary in India has taken a decision on this, which is good enough for us.. Thankfully, unlike our neighbor, our judiciary is not looking for excuses to let the terrorists go free..



I have to agree with you to some extent! Accused in Pakistan most of the times are acquitted but this acquittal has got more to do with the incompetency of our investigation agencies rather than judiciary's excuses. Investigators fail to substantiate persecution hence accused are exonerated. Verdicts are not made on the basis of collective conscience of our society! I wish in Pakistan, like in India, conscience had a role in conviction - half of the murderers would have been ended up in jail!


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## SamantK

Spring Onion said:


> who's lawyers?
> 
> my point is simple i will copy past from the write up here hopefully you will understand
> 
> 
> 
> Then theres the back story. Like most surrendered militants Afzal was easy meat in Kashmir  a victim of torture, blackmail, extortion. In the larger scheme of things he was a nobody. *Anyone who was really interested in solving the mystery of the Parliament Attack would have followed the dense trail of evidence that was on offer. No one did, thereby ensuring that the real authors of conspiracy will remain unidentified and uninvestigated*
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/234051-afzal-guru-hanged-18.html#ixzz2KUYLXySK



The lawyer of Afzal Guru... Kasab managed to change his lawyer because he thought he was not being correctly represented... Afzal Guru either choose not to or the facts did not hold much water.. Arundati misses that point.


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## karan.1970

Emmie said:


> I have to agree with you to some extent! Accused in Pakistan most of the times are acquitted but this acquittal has got more to do with the incompetency of our investigation agencies rather than judiciary's excuses. Investigators fail to substantiate persecution hence accused are exonerated. Verdicts are not made on the basis of collective conscience of our society! I wish in Pakistan, like in India, conscience had a role in conviction - half of the murderers would have been ended up in jail!



If it was based on collective conscience of the nation, it wouldnt have taken 7 years (till 2006) to convict this terrorist.. But yeah.. I get your point and I believe judiciary should reflect the conscience of the nation.. The formal structure should not become more important than the underlying principle..

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## SamantK

Emmie said:


> Quite likely! I read somewhere that the lawyer appointed to Afzal was a junior one and did not visit him even once in jail . He neither summoned any witness in Afzal's defence nor cross examined the witnesses of the prosecution.



As I told@Spring Onion, he could have asked for a different lawyer.. 

Maybe he knew the proof was enough to to tie him to those terrorists...


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## Iggy

haviZsultan said:


> I am replying because this is amusing me. There are no problems, everything is in mantra and karma as isro2222 will put it. I said I am not a religious minority. You didn't understand the post. .



Dude, you choose your country, we choose ours.. You made your decision.. Now please leave us alone.. We do not need our sympathy.. We are fine by our own..




> There never seems to be enough proof of anything in India... only proof that Afzal Guru is a terrorist.
> 
> Now you know why Afzal Guru is innocent.




What about Abhinav Bharat members got arrested?? Is it because of the lack of evidence?

Did you even bothered to watch the video posted here?? He said he aided the terrorists.. Or is it too hard for you to understand what he is saying??




> But it still operates and one of its ex-members is always found guilty-



Look, RSS is a Hindu Nationalist Organisation.. No one is denying that.. But for some members it is not millitant enough.. So they leave the organisation and found their own way.. How is RSS responsible for their action?


> You deny Kandhamal riots took place. Fun Christian you are?



This is getting silliers now.. You are posting articles from Khalistan movement and Christian one which shows only one side and we wanted to take it as credible one?? And I told you already, we are not living in a perfect country, but comparing to many others, it is far better..

And I do not need your certification about what kind of Christian I am. For me nation comes first.. Religion is my private matter..


> I am not sure he was a judge or lawyer. He said it outside the courtroom. I will write an article on it someday and provide the link. In fact post it online? Happy?
> 
> Considering every valid evidence will be shown as evidence that is not valid... I have doubts how that will work.



Super!! 

It was bound to happen in the end


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## JonAsad

this guy was hanged because the elections are near- so now BJP's trump card of alleging Congress to be too soft on terrorist goes down the drain- A good political victory over the expense of an innocent life-


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## Ammyy

JonAsad said:


> this guy was hanged because the elections are near- so now BJP's trump card of alleging Congress to be too soft on terrorist goes down the drain- A good political victory over the expense of an innocent life-



For me at the end terrorist reached to desired place. You can imagine whatever you want.


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## karan.1970

JonAsad said:


> this guy was hanged because the elections are near- so now BJP's trump card of alleging Congress to be too soft on terrorist goes down the drain- A good political victory over the expense of an* innocent life*-



I always thought Pakistani history books were distorted.. Here it seems the english dictionary followed in Pakistan is also different from rest of the world. A person admitting on video about helping plan a terrorist strike for money is considered innocent.. Add to that in Pakistan, a citizen helping nab the most wanted terrorist in the world is jailed for treason.. No wonder all terrorists of the world make a bee line to shift their residence to Pakistan. Must be the safest place on earth for them

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## Iggy

Have to say.. it is easy for someone to kill in Pakistan.

But the guy will found it hard to convince others that he did it..

Look at Malala incident and now these

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## third eye

JonAsad said:


> this guy was hanged because the elections are near- so now BJP's trump card of alleging Congress to be too soft on terrorist goes down the drain- A good political victory over the expense of an innocent life-



That the punishment awarded was to be carried out there is no doubt.

So that such thoughts do not come up in stray minds , there is a need to ensure that mercy petitions are disposed off within a time frame one way or anther. I feel 12 to 18 months would be a fair duration.

Lastly, while there is a sense of sadness on the loss of a life , it pales when seen with the diabolical acts and intent.

This man was not innocent.

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## notsuperstitious

All the believers here know he's gone to a better place. Yet they are complaining just for political point scoring.


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## Emmie

samantk said:


> As I told@Spring Onion, he could have asked for a different lawyer..
> 
> Maybe he knew the proof was enough to to tie him to those terrorists...



Again quite likely! In the cited possibility, both the accused/convict and his lawyer must have been morons of highest degree. Even a third rated lawyer knows the difference between direct and indirect evidence - ethically, bearing professionalism in mind, lawyer should have counseled his client about the application of the evidences (indirect) in hand. 

I believe nothing would have changed even if an eminent lawyer was defending him. Judges pass verdict on the basis of evidences - since evidences and conscience both were the core of verdict in this case so the outcome would have been more or less similar in all the settings.


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## Capt.Popeye

fateh71 said:


> All the believers here know he's gone to a better place. Yet they are complaining just for political point scoring.



Well. he started from a better place and went to a better place? So that was his luck......


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## Markus

Hanging kasab was easy since he was a pakistani national but hanging guru in an extremely and I mean EXTREMELY bold step by the government, this is something which can bring some ramifications.

I personally feel the government is preparing the foundation to hang Rajiv Gandhi killers (3 of them).

At the same time, this also shows what you can do when you have the political will.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## KRAIT

haviZsultan said:


> Kashmir thinks he is innocent:
> https://www.facebook.com/MAfzalGuru
> Mir thinks so too:
> And Arundhati roy:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/234077-afzal-guru-innocent-arundhati-roy.html
> Finally Omar Abdullah's government is being blamed:
> Omar can't disown hanging decision: Mehbooba - Kashmir Times


Yaar you say you are Journalist and you don't know what are trusted sources. 

1. Facebook Page ? 
2. Hamid Mir ? A Pakistani Journalist ? 
3. Arundhati Roy ? She criticizes very thing, An Attention Seeker.

4. Omar Abdullah said that The decision took too long. Delayed action creates doubts. You have to realize the incident happened in 2001 and given Death Sentence in 2005 and it took 8 years to hang him. This alienate youth of Kashmir and gives room to J&K political parties to alienate people.
*
Seriously, You guys have to learn to be rational, not emotional.*


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## haviZsultan

KRAIT said:


> Yaar you say you are Journalist and you don't know what are trusted sources.
> 
> 1. Facebook Page ?
> 2. Hamid Mir ? A Pakistani Journalist ?
> 3. Arundhati Roy ? She criticizes very thing, An Attention Seeker.
> 
> 4. Omar Abdullah said that The decision took too long. Delayed action creates doubts. You have to realize the incident happened in 2001 and given Death Sentence in 2005 and it took 8 years to hang him. This alienate youth of Kashmir and gives room to J&K political parties to alienate people.
> *
> Seriously, You guys have to learn to be rational, not emotional.*



Very difficult considering our history with the place. But I do my best to be as neutral as possible when raising the issue. You don't want me to raise the issue at all though...


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## KRAIT

haviZsultan said:


> Very difficult considering our history with the place. But I do my best to be as neutral as possible when raising the issue. You don't want me to raise the issue at all though...


Raising issue requires trusted and credible reports. 

*Do you doubt Supreme Court Judgement and believe in Arundhati Roy, Hamid Mir and Facebook posters ? 

*Even Omar ABdullah said the delay creates problem. He meant the hanging should have been done way earlier. 
*
Raise issues but kindly back it up with good facts and figures.*

Why don't see the confession of Afzhal in a video posted on the thread. Will you trust that confession or not ?


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## Zarvan

The chief minister of Jammu and Kashmir state has criticised the secretive hanging of Afzal Guru, a Kashmiri militant sentenced to death over the 2001 attack on the Indian parliament.

Omar Abdullah also questioned why Guru "wasn't given the opportunity to see his family for the last time".

Mr Abdullah said the execution was likely to "fuel a feeling of alienation among the Kashmiri youth".

Guru was hanged on Saturday after his final clemency plea was rejected.

He had been on death row since 2002 and was executed at Tihar jail in Delhi.

Guru had always denied plotting the attack, which left 14 dead, including five militants.

Security has been stepped up across India and an indefinite curfew is in place in Indian-administered Kashmir, where news of the execution sparked protests. One man was killed during protests on Sunday.

Until recently, executions were rarely carried out in India.

But Guru's hanging was the second in the last three months - Mohammed Ajmal Qasab, the sole surviving attacker from the 2008 Mumbai attacks, was executed in November in a prison in the western city of Pune.

'Selective execution'
In an interview to news channel CNN-IBN, Mr Abdullah said India would have to prove to the world that Guru's hanging was not "a selective execution".

"I had a premonition that Afzal Guru's execution would follow Ajmal Qasab's execution. I had a sense that Afzal Guru would be executed sooner rather than later. Generations of Kashmiris will identify with Afzal Guru.

"You will have to prove to the world that the death penalty is not used selectively. The onus rests on the judiciary and the political leadership to show that this wasn't a selective execution," he said.

Mr Abdullah said he was concerned over the Indian government not following the rulebook while carrying out the execution.

He said it was a "tragedy" that Guru was not allowed to meet his family before he was hanged and not allowed a "final farewell".

"If we are going to inform someone by post that his family member is going to be hanged, there is something seriously wrong with the system," he said.

The authorities, however, have denied not following the rules. "This is only about the law taking its course," Home Secretary RK Singh said.

Pakistan-backed attack?
Meanwhile, hundreds of police and paramilitary personnel have been deployed in towns and cities across Indian-administered Kashmir to try to contain any unrest sparked by the execution.

Claimed in its entirety by both India and Pakistan, Kashmir has been a flashpoint for more than 60 years and two wars have been fought over it.

The December 2001 attack was one of the most controversial incidents in recent Indian history, correspondents say.


The 2001 attack left 14 people, including five militants, dead
Five rebels stormed India's parliament in Delhi on 13 December 2001, killing a gardener and eight policemen before they were shot dead by security forces.

India blamed the attack on the Jaish-e-Mohammed militant group, which it said was backed by Pakistan.

Pakistan denied involvement in the attack but relations between the two countries nosedived as their armies massed about a million troops along the border.

Afzal Guru, a former fruit merchant, was one of two men sentenced to death for helping to plan the attack, although the sentence of Shaukat Hussain was later reduced on appeal to 10 years in jail.

Guru was found guilty of arranging weapons for the attackers and of membership of Jaish-e-Mohammed, both of which he denied.

Two other people accused in the case, SAR Geelani and Afsan Guru, were acquitted due to a lack of evidence.

Afzal Guru's appeal was first refused by the Supreme Court and then the president.
BBC News - Afzal Guru: Kashmir's Omar Abdullah criticises hanging


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## Devil Soul

*Guru&#8217;s execution affects Sarabjit&#8217;s mercy appeal*
By Rana Tanveer
Published: February 11, 2013
LAHORE: The execution of Mohammad Afzal Guru not only brings bad news for Kashimiris who believe that the suspected militant was framed, but also casts doubts over the future of an Indian prisoner held in Pakistan.
Now after over two decades of wait, Sarabjit Singh&#8217;s family seems to be losing hope.
In a telephonic conversation with The Express Tribune Sarabjit&#8217;s sister Dalbeer Kaur, stated that the family now feared that Guru&#8217;s execution will heighten tensions between the countries and Sarabjit might never be allowed to come back to India.

&#8220;Both the countries should act wisely and Pakistan should not respond hastily,&#8221; she said.
Kaur added that both the governments had released prisoners in the past which should be continued to overcome the trust deficit between the states.
Kaur deemed the execution inhumane, pledging to protest against the Indian government&#8217;s decision to hang Guru. &#8220;I raised my voice for the release of Dr Khalil Chishti and now I will protest for Guru&#8221;.
&#8220;If only Guru&#8217;s case was thoroughly investigated he would not have been hanged,&#8221; she said adding that there were serious discrepancies in the investigations.
She said that in cases such as these the accused are usually given a benefit of doubt but in the case of India and Pakistan, these accused persons are only tried as citizens of an enemy state.
&#8220;This is a murder on behalf of the government&#8230;He could have been sentenced for life. What message does the government want to send&#8221;?
Meanwhile, Sarabjit&#8217;s counsel Advocate Awais Sheikh maintained that the Indian government did not hang Guru on the pretext that he was a Pakistani. He added that since Guru was a Kashmiri the right wing parties of Pakistan should not demand Sarabjit to be hanged as a response to Guru&#8217;s execution.
Published in The Express Tribune, February 11th, 2013.


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## Devil Soul

*At least two dead in Indian-administered Kashmir*
AP | 1 min ago
SRINAGAR: Government forces are enforcing a rigid curfew for the third straight day in Indian-administered Kashmir after India executed a Kashmiri man convicted in a deadly 2001 attack on Parliament. 

Mohammed Afzal Guru was hanged in New Delhi on Saturday. Ahead of the execution, authorities had ordered people in most of the Indian-administered part of disputed Kashmir to remain indoors indefinitely in anticipation of anti-India protests.

Despite the curfew, hundreds of angry residents have clashed with the troops in the region.

A young boy injured in anti-India protests died in a hospital early Monday. Another protester died late Sunday.

Cable television and mobile Internet services were shut in most parts of the region on Monday.


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## Devil Soul

Afzal Guru hanging: Three dead in clashes; Kashmir tense
Published On: February 11, 2013 | Duration: 5 min, 05 sec


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