# Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres



## Albatross

LAHORE: Earlier on April 26, 2012 when news broke of Pakistan testing its new Intermediate Ballistic Missile Hatf-IV (Shaheen-1A), Terminal X contacted Brigadier Ateeq ur Rehman, Director PR for the Pakistani military's Inter-Services Public Relations regarding the range of the latest variant. This scribe was informed that the range has not been disclosed for various reasons.

Later today, a Pakistani military source for TX made an important disclosure: the mysterious range everyone was guessing for the Shaheen-1A is not 2500 kilometers or 5000 kilometers as some exaggerated, it has a maximum range of just 1500 kilometers. According to the official, there were two main objectives of this short test:
Enhance accuracy for pinpoint attacks
Inclusion into the league of nations which have developed intermediate ballistic missiles.
The official stated that Pakistan's deterrence is foremostly against any aggressive Indian adventurism that can turn the region into an inferno. In the official's opinion, India carried out the recent Agni-V ICBM test to send an indirect signal to its rival China, whom it has strong reservations against for various reasons.

It was also revealed by the official that India's military establishment has not shared the actual range of the Agni-V ICBM which happens to be 8000 kilometers, not 5000 kilometers as falsely broadcast in the mainstream media.


"Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres", said the official, "But they will be revealed and tested when there is a need for it. At the moment, Pakistan is silently observing the Eastern Theatre of Operations spearheaded by the US and its increasing presence in Europe, the Pacific Ocean and South Asia. Add to that Indian frolicking and the coming US-Israel drills in the Middle East... and when the time comes, those who should know, will know, Pakistan also has targets beyond India... way beyond India". 

He added, "A wise group does not consider the Agni-V test as a threat for Pakistan but rather for China, and China is smart enough to deal with it. The military establishment is not really considering ICBM tests soon since we consider silence as the ultimate weapon. It might be that Israel signaled India to provoke Pakistan into doing an ICBM test and exposing their exact range so that an international conspiracy against the country's nukes could be initiated as is being currently done against North Korea. Far from being slapped with sanctions, India instead received appreciation from the US, NATO and Israel for its recent test".


And, as this scribe repeated the million dollar question, 'Any ICBM tests in the pipeline?'

"Well, yes.. My vote is not for it though".

Exclusive: Pakistani security official discusses the Shaheen-1A test ~ Terminal X

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## King Solomon

Hmm, coincidentally or not this information is the same as I heard from my source. Agni V's real range was 8000 km and pakistan's missile's test was not more than 2000 km.


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## ChineseTiger1986

I hope so, but Pakistan should keep in low profile about the ICBMs, since Uncle Sam will try to cause more troubles to you guys if they discover that.

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## S-A-B-E-R->

Terminal X sounds shady i dont think ant military offical ll give out ICBM news so easily.

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## Albatross

S-19 said:


> Hmm, coincidentally or not this information is the same as I heard from my source. Agni V's real range was 8000 km and pakistan's missile's test was not more than 2000 km.



Thats true indians did hide the actual range as they dint wanna make a public uproar to get justifications for that range but all the defence pundits knows the range ..But its of no use against Pak as that could have been achieved by a mere 3000-4000 range missile but the point is Pak has not only the capability but has already made the required work to conduct a 9000 km plus missile but awaits approval from various levels from within and out of country to conduct that test as its forsure gonna ring siren bells in washington and israal leave alone delhi...

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## SQ8

Hearsay again..
The range on the Shaheen 1-A may go to 1500 only by reducing payload to a small degree.
I would rather not comment on the ICBM part...
since this thread is soon about to have some smart alec people from India posting demeaning comments...

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## Albatross

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> Terminal X sounds shady i dont think ant military offical ll give out ICBM news so easily.



do you guys know Pak sent its first rocket rehbar 1Rehbar-I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia into space in 1961 and india was able to do so 2 years later in 1963..it proves the edge we have over indians regarding rockets and missiles thats another thing we cant showoff all we have owing to certain factors as i mentioned in my last post..But guys I have my own resouces which cant be disclosed on an open forum like this but we do have missiles ready to be tested with ranges b/w 9000-1000 km and time will tell...and the learned circles around the globe know it

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## Johny D

great news....so US shud now stop d drone attacks...

strong asia!

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## truthseeker2010

Albatross said:


> Thats true indians did hide the actual range as they dint wanna make a public uproar to get justifications for that range but all the defence pundits knows the range ..But its of no use against Pak as that could have been achieved by a mere 3000-4000 range missile but the point is Pak has not only the capability but has already made the required work to conduct a 9000 km plus missile but awaits approval from various levels from within and *out of country* to conduct that test as its forsure gonna ring siren bells in washington and israal leave alone delhi...



You mean some other country will tell us when to test our ICBM??


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## Capt.Popeye

Oscar said:


> Hearsay again..
> The range on the Shaheen 1-A may go to 1500 only by reducing payload to a small degree.
> I would rather not comment on the ICBM part...
> since this thread is soon about to have some smart alec people from India posting demeaning comments...



Oscar, people will only believe what they want to believe. To the extent of repeating any fiction _ad infinitum_, till they are convinced that the truth cannot be anything else.

And the real truth? What truth??

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## Tamizhan

> It might be that Israel signaled India to provoke Pakistan into doing an ICBM test and exposing their exact range so that an international conspiracy against the country's nukes could be initiated as is being currently done against North Korea.



Damn sure it is just the fertile imagination of the scribe and not a military man's comment.Too much idiocacy and imagination to be that of a military man's. OTOH if this was indeed a military man's comment , I am just lost for words.

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## Albatross

pak had the ability to test a nuke around 16 years earlier(1982-1983) before she actually tested few ...Same goes with our long range missiles they are ready but yet awaits approvals which depends on international circumstances..

pak will be sanctioned and cut from world if we test one today so well have to wait for the right time as you can see even india dint dare to openly express the exact range though india is internationally enjoyin much smoother waters..

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## SQ8

Albatross said:


> Thats true indians did hide the actual range as they dint wanna make a public uproar to get justifications for that range but all the defence pundits knows the range ..But its of no use against Pak as that could have been achieved by a mere 3000-4000 range missile but the point is *Pak has not only the capability but has already made the required work to conduct a 9000 km p*lus missile but awaits approval from various levels from within and out of country to conduct that test as its forsure gonna ring siren bells in washington and israal leave alone delhi...



Its not about having the capability..we have it, I know of it as well.
But having capable rocket motors, guidance , construction materials and concepts(stage separation physics, timings, body design etc) is different from actually mating it into a package.
Its all there, and then its not.

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## Tamizhan

Albatross said:


> do you guys know Pak sent its first rocket rehbar 1Rehbar-I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia into space in 1961 and india was able to do so 2 years later in 1963..it proves the edge we have over indians regarding rockets and missiles



And happened after that ?

Do you know where ISRO and SUPARCO stand now ?

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## joekrish

Albatross said:


> as its forsure gonna ring siren bells in washington and israal leave alone delhi...



We would not have any problems at all if Pakistan tests its ICBM, just like Agni 5 is not Pak oriented we know the ICBM's PAK would test would not be India specific, please go ahead and test it when you think the time is right and can handle international pressure.

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## Xestan

Well, I wont comment on the range of the ICBM mentioned in the article but yes, I am pretty much sure, a missile with 4000-5000km range is no big deal for the Pakistani scientists and engineers, have anyone ever noticed the pace of missile tests from 1998 to 2003, if we could test a Shaheen-II with 2500km range at that time, why can't we develop a ICBM in around next 10 years? And everyone knows how advanced our Missile program is.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Albatross said:


> pak had the ability to test a nuke around 16 years earlier(1982-1983) before she actually tested few ...Same goes with our long range missiles they are ready but yet awaits approvals which depends on international circumstances..
> 
> pak will be sanctioned and cut from world if we test one today so well have to wait for the right time as you can see even india dint dare to openly express the exact range though india is internationally enjoyin much smoother waters..



That's correct, the West will find an excuse to put the sanction on Pakistan, since they were well-known of their pathetic double standard excuses.

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## Albatross

truthseeker2010 said:


> You mean some other country will tell us when to test our ICBM??



Thats kinda a tricky question dude but to put it your way dun you think in 98 india told us to test our nukes...In this case I feel if Pak will ever feel seriously threatened by US or Israel only then will she unleash her secret weapons and its not only gonna be long range missiles there are some surprises regarding biological and thermal weapons as well..Nodoubt there are a thousand men who are working to destabilize Pak but I assure yu there are ten men who are working day in and day out to save Pak from going down the gutter and see our history its a miracle we are still surviving today and we owe it to those 10 men who are working under covers without any love for fame and pride but just to make their homeland strong and invincible..

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## SQ8

The point is, the maximum range Pakistan needs is not greater than 4000km with a respectable payload..
with that you endager the andaman islands.and kolgata.. 
although Im not sure about how we would feel in the scenario having to hit kolgata and possibly endanger Bangladeshis as well.
but then again.. in the worst case scenario between us.. 
The whole region will go to ****.

A 9000km missile would not just be a message to the western power that its time to blow Pakistan to smithereens.
it will be a message to Israel.. saying "Oh..so you thought you were safe ..did you?"

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## Albatross

Oscar said:


> Its not about having the capability..we have it, I know of it as well.
> But having capable rocket motors, guidance , construction materials and concepts(stage separation physics, timings, body design etc) is different from actually mating it into a package.
> Its all there, and then its not.



What you are talking about is a functional blue print and according to my sources Pak got one such complete functional blueprint around 2 decades back ..Ofcourse we are not in a position to start mass producing them but we can comfortably launch a 10000 Km range missile on hardly a month notice or even less as initially its gonna be a handsup call for those having ill designs on us and yes we cant only test it means its not gonna fly like a kite it will be accurate as well as all the intricacies of designs and materials have been taken into account and slowly things are being acquired which are difficult to manage at home... I hope we all know one day or the other we have to not only test such missiles well have to use them as well..


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## young man

imran khan should give the signal to launch 10,000 Kilometer ICBM


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## user1

Based on what I am reading in this thread, it is established that we have the 'capacity' to build ICBMs. Do we also have the 'capacity' to build SLV and support infrastructure? Is there a hope on that side?


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## Lone

..I just can't believe that a country with experience on missile tech more than 25 years and just stop their research after testing some IRBM. Pak surely and obviously got the technical know-how to build an ICBM, there is no doubt about it. But shouldn't She be more concerned about her economy??

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## ChineseTiger1986

Pakistan has just decided to build the SSBN, so maybe even the SLBM should be in the corner. 



young man said:


> economy is nothing...kuwait had oil and economy...saddam occupied it in 24 hours.



The economy is very important, however without a strong military, you cannot simply protect your economy.

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## Albatross

user1 said:


> Based on what I am reading in this thread, it is established that we have the 'capacity' to build ICBMs. Do we also have the 'capacity' to build SLV and support infrastructure? Is there a hope on that side?



Ofcourse we do and things are a stage higher than hope means work is under progress at some stage or the other regarding all the things you mentioned..But yes we do need to hope that well get rid of current politicians and corruption to the lowest levels of society(education is badly needed) and holding Allah the almighty as the foundation stone of our life we can make this Pakistan the" the land of pure" in the true sense of word and I hope we would be able to reach that stage without any huge bloodshed(which at the moment seems inevitable) but yes our ultimate destination is not in the slums our country is currently sitting but owing to the strategic location and the only bridge b/w huge western china, centralasia , afghanistan and warm waters of arabian sea and above all the brilliant brains like that lil girl arfa karim(if such ppl are provided with infrastructure) are gonna make us the real just superpower of the world and its not much to ask if you know what I am talking about

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## Pak47

Its all there.. its just a matter of testing.. Pak has the capability to launch satellites in to space, but with a week economy, its much saver to launch them via china.


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## young man

Lone said:


> ..I just can't believe that a country with experience on missile tech more than 25 years and just stop their research after testing some IRBM. Pak surely and obviously got the technical know-how to build an ICBM, there is no doubt about it. But shouldn't She be more concerned about her economy??



listen son..economy is nothing......kuwait had economy,oil and money but no defence..hence saddam occupied it in 24 hours.....
just like your country bangladesh....the sort of defence you have...hell even burma can occupy you.
North Korea has zero economy...yet no one dares to occupy it since it has world's 4th largest army....understood??

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## Albatross

Pakistani's are known for their intelligence or okay to be honest for their cunningness around the globe if its used in the right direction we guys can do miracles and no body can match us...its no self boasting its based on the actual test pentagon carried on different nations by covert means of internet and other surveys and they were surprised to find the intellect and reasonings Pakistani's had to offer but as i said its currently more for self interests not for the nation as a whole and we need to change it..



young man said:


> listen son..economy is nothing......kuwait had economy,oil and money but no defence..hence saddam occupied it in 24 hours.....
> just like your country bangladesh....the sort of defence you have...hell even burma can occupy you.
> North Korea has zero economy...yet no one dares to occupy it since it has world's 4th largest army....understood??



you are right atleast from where yu r lookin at things but i would advise yo that being a young man its doesnt suit yu to call other son and its against forum rules as well otherwise yu will be wearing red soon..


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## ChineseTiger1986

I am also very excited to see the Pakistani ICBM and SSBN.

Do you guys know any more inside information about these toys?

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## Sashan

Oscar said:


> Hearsay again..
> The range on the Shaheen 1-A may go to 1500 only by reducing payload to a small degree.
> I would rather not comment on the ICBM part...
> since this thread is soon about to have some *smart alec people from India posting demeaning comments*...





My fellow Indians - prove our Mod wrong and stay off this thread. This is not for us.


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## Sugarcane

Sashan said:


> My fellow Indians - prove our Mod wrong and stay off this thread. This is not for us.



You are demanding moon.......

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## ChineseTiger1986

Albatross said:


> Pakistani's are known for their intelligence or okay to be honest for their cunningness around the globe if its used in the right direction we guys can do miracles and no body can match us...its no self boasting its based on the actual test pentagon carried on different nations by covert means of internet and other surveys and they were surprised to find the intellect and reasonings Pakistani's had to offer but as i said its currently more for self interests not for the nation as a whole and we need to change it..



Pakistan did an excellent job in its military industry complex, even many developed nations simply cannot compare.

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## Sugarcane

Albatross said:


> Pakistani's are known for their intelligence or okay to be honest for their cunningness around the globe if its used in the right direction we guys can do miracles and no body can match us...its no self boasting its based on the actual test pentagon carried on different nations by covert means of internet and other surveys and they were surprised to find the intellect and reasonings Pakistani's had to offer but as i said its currently more for self interests not for the nation as a whole and we need to change it..



Ok - At-least provide source of highlighted part otherwise i will consider your previous claims as bluff

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## Android

If pakistan had such technology they would have made huge progress in space research

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## Albatross

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I am also very excited to see the Pakistani ICBM and SSBN.
> 
> Do you guys know any more inside information about these toys?



Thanks for the support..I visited China twice and have to admit during these tough times only china and turkey stood by Pak in the real sense and I remember the lil girl of my host telling me china-pak fungyu(mean pak and china are frnds)..

Reg more info well its always hard to find even in the military spying circuits leave alone this open forum but all I can assure yu is pak is upto something good as she always was and the long range missiles are gonna be a reality soon and I am sure chinese would be smiling along with pakistani's on that eventful day when well launch 1st missile..



Voldemort said:


> If pakistan had such technology they would have made huge progress in space research



Space research consumes lots of resources and we are doing fine by launching our satellites via chinese and dun need it at the moment...Plus why are yu alarmed we dun need ICBM for yu guys we dealt yu long time ago with our 3000-3500 range missiles..So plz dun troll and read the oscar post regardin indians in the start of the thread...


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## Android

Albatross said:


> Thanks for the support..I visited China twice and have to admit during these tough times only china and turkey stood by Pak in the real sense and I remember the lil girl of my host telling me china-pak fungyu(mean pak and china are frnds)..
> 
> Reg more info well its always hard to find even in the military spying circuits leave alone this open forum but all I can assure yu is pak is upto something good as she always was and the long range missiles are gonna be a reality soon and I am sure chinese would be smiling along with pakistani's on that eventful day when well launch 1st missile..
> 
> 
> 
> Space research consumes lots of resources and we are doing fine by launching our satellites via chinese and dun need it at the moment...Plus why are yu alarmed we dun need ICBM for yu guys we dealt yu long time ago with our 3000-3500 range missiles..So plz dun troll and read the oscar post regardin indians in the start of the thread...


Plz provide source of that highlighted part


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## ChineseTiger1986

Albatross said:


> Thanks for the support..I visited China twice and have to admit during these tough times only china and turkey stood by Pak in the real sense and I remember the lil girl of my host telling me china-pak fungyu(mean pak and china are frnds)..
> 
> Reg more info well its always hard to find even in the military spying circuits leave alone this open forum but all I can assure yu is pak is upto something good as she always was and the long range missiles are gonna be a reality soon and I am sure chinese would be smiling along with pakistani's on that eventful day when well launch 1st missile..



I hope that China could sell the production line of Type 054A and Type 052C to Pakistan, so it can help Pakistan to speed up the development of its navy, while it also allows Pakistan to save more budget and focus more on the development of the strategic ICBM and SSBN.

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## Albatross

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I hope that China could sell the production line of Type 054A and Type 052C to Pakistan, so it can help Pakistan to speed up the development of its navy, while it also allows Pakistan to save more budget and focus more on the development of the strategic ICBM and SSBN.



Besides these things Pak-china really needs to concentrate on their fighter planes and their advancement to 5th generation level..Pakistani's pilots contributed a lot in the development of f-7 by sharing their flying experience of f-16 and later f-7..same way we need to improve block 2 JF17 and also work together in other aviation projects(j-10) as a ready and well equipped airforce is the backbone of any military..

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## ZABASHO

Pakistan already has all of India covered, so it doesn't matter much to India for Pakistan procuring ICBM, instead this actually works towards uplifting Asia apart from the increased threat to US & NATO.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Albatross said:


> Besides these things Pak-china really needs to concentrate on their fighter planes and their advancement to 5th generation level..Pakistani's pilots contributed a lot in the development of f-7 by sharing their flying experience of f-16 and later f-7..same way we need to improve block 2 JF17 and also work together in other aviation projects(j-10) as a ready and well equipped airforce is the backbone of any military..



Here is some revealed information about Pakistan's future SSN/SSBN, it will have the nuclear hydraulic propulsion.

That's just incredible, it is just comparable to China's Type 095/096.

Grande Strategy

And i think China is now working the J-2X project with Pakistan.

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## Albatross

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Here is some revealed information about Pakistan's future SSN/SSBN, it will have the nuclear hydraulic propulsion.
> 
> That's just incredible, it is just comparable to China's Type 095/096.
> 
> Grande Strategy
> 
> And i think China is now working the J-2X project with Pakistan.



This indeed was informative..Thanks dude I like the air arnd yu...

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## ARSENAL6

Totally agree with you


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## The Deterrent

False news...Useless thread, should be closed...
We have gone over the same topic over and over again...
TX is not THAT trustworthy...they exaggerate,plus their "sources" mislead them. The sources in the armed forces would call a weapon "in-possession" even if it was just discussed as a project in a meeting... 

How can you people not understand that just possessing a missile makes no difference!...It HAS to be tested to prove its credibitlity, otherwise it is worthless and a waste of R&D,money and time.

I agree that Pakistan's record in this buisness is quite good, but there are very less funds now to do anymore extensive R&D.(thanks to our economy and PPP).

*The point which we all are missing, is that Pakistan's nuclear weapons development strategy is being more focused on developing tactical,rapid action, credible (which could survive ABMs etc) and short range weapons. We just need that 4000 km range missile for the strategic needs which would be seen soon.*

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## ChineseTiger1986

AhaseebA said:


> False news...Useless thread, should be closed...
> We have gone over the same topic over and over again...
> TX is not THAT trustworthy...they exaggerate,plus their "sources" mislead them. The sources in the armed forces would call a weapon "in-possession" even if it was just discussed as a project in a meeting...
> 
> How can you people not understand that just possessing a missile makes no difference!...It HAS to be tested to prove its credibitlity, otherwise it is worthless and a waste of R&D,money and time.
> 
> I agree that Pakistan's record in this buisness is quite good, but there are very less funds now to do anymore extensive R&D.(thanks to our economy and PPP).
> 
> *The point which we all are missing, is that Pakistan's nuclear weapons development strategy is being more focused on developing tactical,rapid action, credible (which could survive ABMs etc) and short range weapons. We just need that 4000 km range missile for the strategic needs which would be seen soon.*



Buddy, what's your problem with Pakistan having ICBM?

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## ChineseTiger1986

ZABASHO said:


> Pakistan already has all of India covered, so it doesn't matter much to India for Pakistan procuring ICBM, instead this actually works towards uplifting Asia apart from the increased threat to US & NATO.



The biggest threat to Pakistan is indeed US, that's why the development of ICBM is more meaningful to them than to India.

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## Edevelop

young man said:


> listen son..economy is nothing......kuwait had economy,oil and money but no defence..hence saddam occupied it in 24 hours.....
> just like your country bangladesh....the sort of defence you have...hell even burma can occupy you.
> North Korea has zero economy...yet no one dares to occupy it since it has world's 4th largest army....understood??



So where would you get money to keep increasing your missile stockpile and or to keep your nukes safe?
North Korea is bankrupt. They are surviving because China is giving them loose pennies. In the next few years that country will declare itself to the world.

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## oct605032048

Pakistan does not need ICBMs to bomb India upside down.


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## MilSpec

Pakistan possesses the *capability*, to produce long range missiles. Agreed, unless you test it, produce it, and induct it, the capability will be of no use in contingency when/if you actually need to use it. 

India centric threat has been already covered long ago, maybe it's time to realise there are other threats than India in future.

Pakistan has shown incredible speed in developing its missile program, Next step is to develop test and induct SLV's for an active space program.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The biggest threat to Pakistan is indeed US, that's why the development of ICBM is more meaningful to them than to India.



Doesn't matter how much amount of low end defence stuff you gather from china, US has been a lifesaver for pakistan vis-a-vis India. US has historically provided gamechangers to pakistan to ensure its minimal credible detterence.

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## clmeta

Uncle, what about the soviets????didn't they have weapons???? why did they disintegrate?


young man said:


> listen son..economy is nothing......kuwait had economy,oil and money but no defence..hence saddam occupied it in 24 hours.....
> just like your country bangladesh....the sort of defence you have...hell even burma can occupy you.
> North Korea has zero economy...yet no one dares to occupy it since it has world's 4th largest army....understood??


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## somebozo

Terminal X a "Ziad Hamid" type portal with not much credibility.

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## Zarvan

Albatross said:


> LAHORE: Earlier on April 26, 2012 when news broke of Pakistan testing its new Intermediate Ballistic Missile Hatf-IV (Shaheen-1A), Terminal X contacted Brigadier Ateeq ur Rehman, Director PR for the Pakistani military's Inter-Services Public Relations regarding the range of the latest variant. This scribe was informed that the range has not been disclosed for various reasons.
> 
> Later today, a Pakistani military source for TX made an important disclosure: the mysterious range everyone was guessing for the Shaheen-1A is not 2500 kilometers or 5000 kilometers as some exaggerated, it has a maximum range of just 1500 kilometers. According to the official, there were two main objectives of this short test:
> Enhance accuracy for pinpoint attacks
> Inclusion into the league of nations which have developed intermediate ballistic missiles.
> The official stated that Pakistan's deterrence is foremostly against any aggressive Indian adventurism that can turn the region into an inferno. In the official's opinion, India carried out the recent Agni-V ICBM test to send an indirect signal to its rival China, whom it has strong reservations against for various reasons.
> 
> It was also revealed by the official that India's military establishment has not shared the actual range of the Agni-V ICBM which happens to be 8000 kilometers, not 5000 kilometers as falsely broadcast in the mainstream media.
> 
> 
> "Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres", said the official, "But they will be revealed and tested when there is a need for it. At the moment, Pakistan is silently observing the Eastern Theatre of Operations spearheaded by the US and its increasing presence in Europe, the Pacific Ocean and South Asia. Add to that Indian frolicking and the coming US-Israel drills in the Middle East... and when the time comes, those who should know, will know, Pakistan also has targets beyond India... way beyond India".
> 
> He added, "A wise group does not consider the Agni-V test as a threat for Pakistan but rather for China, and China is smart enough to deal with it. The military establishment is not really considering ICBM tests soon since we consider silence as the ultimate weapon. It might be that Israel signaled India to provoke Pakistan into doing an ICBM test and exposing their exact range so that an international conspiracy against the country's nukes could be initiated as is being currently done against North Korea. Far from being slapped with sanctions, India instead received appreciation from the US, NATO and Israel for its recent test".
> 
> 
> And, as this scribe repeated the million dollar question, 'Any ICBM tests in the pipeline?'
> 
> "Well, yes.. My vote is not for it though".
> 
> Exclusive: Pakistani security official discusses the Shaheen-1A test ~ Terminal X


This is not the new thing everyone knew Pakistan is working on ICBM because what ever we do we can never trust America Israel and Europe and to protect our security we need long range missiles to hit any kind of targets so we can deter our enemies so Pakistan if later tests a long range missile it will be not surprising at all


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## Zarvan

itsme21 said:


> come on guys this is just a trick by pakistani general. pakistan can prolly improve the guidence system of the present missiles and by reducing payload they can extend shaheen 2 to 5000-6000km. but saying that we have already assembled missiles and are keeping them in store is like
> 
> this is not practical and even improving a guidence system take huge knowledge and pakistan has never developed guidence system on its own.


Sir you guys said the same kind of things before we tested our Cruise Missile and than for many months Indians didn't knew what to say you also have developed most things from Russia Pakistan is from very long working on longer range missiles and it is a known fact which most world knows


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## AbhijitSingh

Albatross said:


> "Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres", said the official, "But they will be revealed and tested when there is a need for it. At the moment, Pakistan is silently observing the Eastern Theatre of Operations spearheaded by the US and its increasing presence in Europe, the Pacific Ocean and South Asia. Add to that Indian frolicking and the coming US-Israel drills in the Middle East... and when the time comes, those who should know, will know, Pakistan also has targets beyond India... way beyond India".



Some people dont mind sounding stupid as long as they can utter something that shows Pakistan ahead of India  (for the writer of the article.. Not Albatross)

Seriously, enough with conspiracy theories guys ..


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## ZABASHO

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The biggest threat to Pakistan is indeed US, that's why the development of ICBM is more meaningful to them than to India.



you've been drinking too much coffee lately buddy, caffeine addiction?? 

But perceived within the Pakistani military establishment is India as the primal threat, whereas US is currently at top spot due to public anger against US ops on Pakistani soil as well as the future after 2014. 

If the current situation remains constant, after US withdrawal India will regain the number 1 position, hence good move by Pakistani govt. to work up trade with India during this period and ICBM.

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## Norboo

> *"Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres",* said the official, "But they will be revealed and tested when there is a need for it. At the moment, Pakistan is silently observing the Eastern Theatre of Operations spearheaded by the US and its increasing presence in Europe, the Pacific Ocean and South Asia. Add to that Indian frolicking and the coming US-Israel drills in the Middle East... and when the time comes, those who should know, will know, Pakistan also has targets beyond India... way beyond India".


*What sorta crap is this? It is so nonsensical it ain't even funny!* 

Anyway, I'll still put a laughing smiley here even though it ain't funny.


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## Zarvan

itsme21 said:


> dude i agree that india learnt most of the basics of ballistics and nuclear engineering from russia.
> 
> they have helped as our teachers and gurus in past. china made their first ballistic missile from russia and all their planes are from russian technology.
> 
> but why india and china are different from pak?
> we invest billions into indegeneous tech. india can today build its own ring laser gyroscope.trust me pak cant even dream of it. its one the most complex gidence systems to make.
> drdo has 52 labs and 8000 scientists and working on 500 different projects. pakistan has 1 facility where all this assembling of chinese missiles happen.
> 
> pakistan is simply trying to increase the range of the missile. no one keeps icbms in safe loll.


Sir we will test us when time will suit us we don't have any need to test them now when will have the whole world will see as they saw the tests in 1998


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## LiberalAtheist

the credibility of the source is highly questionable and not to mention even if Pak had ICBM's who would they use them on? unless they want to send it around the world and back to south asia


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## Nishan_101

Albatross said:


> do you guys know Pak sent its first rocket rehbar 1Rehbar-I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia into space in 1961 and india was able to do so 2 years later in 1963..it proves the edge we have over indians regarding rockets and missiles thats another thing we cant showoff all we have owing to certain factors as i mentioned in my last post..But guys I have my own resouces which cant be disclosed on an open forum like this but we do have missiles ready to be tested with ranges b/w 9000-1000 km and time will tell...and the learned circles around the globe know it


 
The mishap was we were unable to develop the basic R&D facilities at that time for aerospace and for other purposes which has destroyed our country a lot. If had continued from 60s then now we would have achieved them same level in technology like the Chinese and most probably even better!


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## The Deterrent

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Buddy, what's your problem with Pakistan having ICBM?



No,no...I dont have any problem with that...I would be rather happier if Pakistan today possessed ICBMs and SLVs alongwith a strong economy.

I am saying THREE things.

1. Pakistan doesn't needs ICBMs (but we do need SLVs).
2. Developing such a project right now is not feasible.
3. Any project of these specifications does not exist in developmental stages.

The weapon which we should be looking upto is the 4000 km range, MIRVed missile.

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## Alchemy

truthseeker2010 said:


> You mean some other country will tell us when to test our ICBM??



Why do you sound surprised .... some or the other country has always been dictating terms even in the past ....


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## Zarvan

AhaseebA said:


> No,no...I dont have any problem with that...I would be rather happier if Pakistan today possessed ICBMs and SLVs alongwith a strong economy.
> 
> I am saying THREE things.
> 
> 1. Pakistan doesn't needs ICBMs (but we do need SLVs).
> 2. Developing such a project right now is not feasible.
> 3. Any project of these specifications does not exist in developmental stages.
> 
> The weapon which we should be looking upto is the 4000 km range, MIRVed missile.


Pakistan definitely needs an ICBM Europe and America never have been friendly to us so we need long range missiles and Pakistan is already working on them and most probably already developed them the question only is when to show them to the world that can take years as our Nuclear Tests also took years other wise we were ready to test them in 1984

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## janbaaz

The Standardization of SUPARCO is much better than ISRO.


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## Manas

mubarak ho

but why 9000+ ?? why not 8000+ or say 10000+( nice round figure) ??


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## zer_0

janbaaz said:


> The Standardization of SUPARCO is much better than ISRO.



since its ur *1st* post on pdf. 

i ll say


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## user1

sandy_3126 said:


> Doesn't matter how much amount of low end defence stuff you gather from china, US has been a lifesaver for pakistan vis-a-vis India.* US has historically provided gamechangers to pakistan to ensure its minimal credible detterence.*



By game changers for minimal credible deterrence, do you mean like Nuclear technology and Missile Program? 

You must be talking about Israel.

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## saiyan0321

hmmm i will say about the topic and leave this might become a 30 page flame thread... 

well one the military official would never reveal that we have icbm,s since his saying can be taken by us and considering how paranoid it is its should have bombarded us with sanction the very next hour. if a country like india who has all the international support had to hide the agni 5 range then you know how careful we have to be that we cant even say what icbm,s are. research has always happened with pakistan and many would question our secrecy but that is how things are they do it in secret. something tells me this test would not have been revealed to the people even after the test if their media didnt leak it.

the fact is just with this test shows that we r nt only working on range but mostly on accuracy,speed and greater technology. which in my sense is better then range.if any missiles are kept hidden then they will not b kept in a locker they will be researched upon and made better. the previous test of a horizontal missile should another truth of our R&D to get our own naval nuclear missile.


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## Black Widow

> It was also revealed by the official that India's military establishment has not shared the actual range of the Agni-V ICBM which happens to be 8000 kilometers, not 5000 kilometers as falsely broadcast in the mainstream media.




China and Pakistan speaking same language???



> Enhance accuracy for pinpoint attacks
> Inclusion into the league of nations which have developed intermediate ballistic missiles.



I said the same in my posts earlier



> "*Pakistan possesses various ICBMs* which have a range of 9000+ kilometres", said the official, "But they will be revealed and tested when there is a need for it.


Possesses :
1. Have as belonging to one; own: "I do not possess a television set".
2. Have possession of as distinct from ownership.
3. to have as belonging to one; have as property; own: to possess a house and a car.

If the reporting is true, What I can get from this line is, Pakistan already built/borrow/buy some ICBMs which it will display to world as test. Can some one from Pakistan confirm if China had sold/leased some ICBM to Pakistan???? Or Pakistan itself did the research on it???

The report says possessing ICBM, not possessing capability or technology. 

Remember Indian stand on ASAT "We have technology to build ASAT, We can test it if govt want" 
Pakistani stand on ICBM "Pakistan possesses *various *ICBMs which have a range of *9000*+ kilometres", said the official, "But they will be *revealed *and tested when there is a need for it."

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## T90TankGuy

janbaaz said:


> The Standardization of SUPARCO is much better than ISRO.


 

word of advice mate . do a little research before posting such statements, that too on your first post

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## Developereo

I can can understand that you can test a lot of capabilities (materials, propulsion, etc.) in the lab, but I don't see how you can have confidence in the guidance system and CEP unless you run the distance.

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## cybertron

Albatross said:


> do you guys know Pak sent its first rocket rehbar 1Rehbar-I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia into space in 1961 and *india was able to do so 2 years later in 1963..it proves the edge we have over indians regarding rockets and missiles * thats another thing we cant showoff all we have owing to certain factors as i mentioned in my last post..



In * 1792* , the first iron-cased rockets were successfully developed and used by Hyder Ali and his son Tipu Sultan, rulers of the Kingdom of Mysore in India against the larger British East India Company forces during the Anglo-Mysore Wars.....so WHAT???!!



Albatross said:


> But guys I have my own resouces which cant be disclosed on an open forum like this but we do have missiles ready to be tested with ranges b/w 9000-1000 km and time will tell...and the learned circles around the globe know it


Is that LEARNED circle on facebook or G+?? :What:


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## Dark Warrior

Terminal X?

Here are some gems from TX:
Indian RAW's 'Kao Plan' unleashed in Balochistan ~ Terminal X
India and Israel: A Collaboration of Terror against Islam and Muslims ~ Terminal X
Pakistan: Mir Akmal Raisani's murder linked to Indian intelligence RAW ~ Terminal X
http://www.terminalx.org/2012/02/hydro-terrorism-by-india-to-overawe.html
Pakistan wants Hindu RSS terrorists extradited ~ Terminal X
An Indo-US Alliance destabilizes Pakistan ~ Terminal X
Indian military troops given licence to kill Kashmiris ~ Terminal X
A road map to Khalistan ~ Terminal X

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## Dark Warrior

Terminal X?

Here are some gems from TX:
Indian RAW's 'Kao Plan' unleashed in Balochistan ~ Terminal X
India and Israel: A Collaboration of Terror against Islam and Muslims ~ Terminal X
Pakistan: Mir Akmal Raisani's murder linked to Indian intelligence RAW ~ Terminal X
Hydro-Terrorism by India to overawe Pakistan ~ Terminal X
Pakistan wants Hindu RSS terrorists extradited ~ Terminal X
An Indo-US Alliance destabilizes Pakistan ~ Terminal X
Indian military troops given licence to kill Kashmiris ~ Terminal X
A road map to Khalistan ~ Terminal X

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## cybertron

Black Widow said:


> The report says possessing ICBM, not possessing capability or technology.
> 
> Remember Indian stand on ASAT "We have technology to build ASAT, We can test it if govt want"
> *Pakistani stand *on ICBM "Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000kilometres", said the official, "But they will be revealed and tested when there is a need for it."



Aint the official stand buddy....just some crazy guy expressing his desire on some tabloid ink.

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## IceCold

Pakistan needed an ICBM right after we were threaten the 1st time. Gaining this capability however will not be an easy task because this would be the same as building nuclear weapons again but multiply it with 10. US does not like our nuclear capability one bit, how will the US feel when it finds out that Pakistan now not only have nukes but also the capability to hit the main land. 
To survive that we need alot of things to change:
1) Our pathetic so called democratic regime
2) A strong economy which is directly linked to number 1
3) Some kind of understanding with the Indians, perhaps even making them a stake holder in Pakistan
4) Develop ties which Russia on fast track. This is linked with point number 3.

Without doing the above, developing an ICBM will be futile, not just futile, it will create problems for Pakistan many folds .

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## MilSpec

user1 said:


> By game changers for minimal credible deterrence, do you mean like Nuclear technology and Missile Program?
> 
> You must be talking about Israel.


!

by game changers I mean , f86 sabres, F-104 Starfighter, F16's, Aim-9x, Aim 120C, most of your ground radars. 

you can cry china china as much as you want, but when the going gets tough its always america who bails out


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## MilSpec

IceCold said:


> Pakistan needed an ICBM right after we were threaten the 1st time. Gaining this capability however will not be an easy task because this would be the same as building nuclear weapons again but multiply it with 10. US does not like our nuclear capability one bit, how will the US feel when it finds out that Pakistan now not only have nukes but also the capability to hit the main land.
> To survive that we need alot of things to change:
> 1) Our pathetic so called democratic regime
> 2) A strong economy which is directly linked to number 1
> 3) Some kind of understanding with the Indians, perhaps even making them a stake holder in Pakistan
> 4) Develop ties which Russia on fast track. This is linked with point number 3.
> 
> Without doing the above, developing an ICBM will be futile, not just futile, it will create problems for Pakistan many folds .



Vinasha kale viparita Budhi.....

Do not wish for enmity with USA, they will bring enormous pain beyond your realm of imagination. Russia will not budge from its current position much and if you cross swords with US you will find the quickest and most astonishing disappearing act by the chinese. 
Not every country has boundless patience like India, you try to play nuclear blackmail with US, next minute you will have b2's knocking on your door.

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## saiyan0321

> Vinasha kale viparita Budhi.....
> 
> Do not wish for enmity with USA, they will bring enormous pain beyond your realm of imagination. Russia will not budge from its current position much and if you cross swords with US you will find the quickest and most astonishing disappearing act by the chinese.
> Not every country has boundless patience like India, you try to play nuclear blackmail with US, next minute you will have b2's knocking on your door.



this is why pakistan needs an icbm but never reveal it. revealing it will create snctions and problems for pakistan that we cant afford. i say make it and keep it safe and sound and work on improving it bcz as of now in international politics none is friends forever. and america like it or not is an enemy in disguise keep good relations but always be prepared. like i said pull an israel make it and just dont reveal it and the best thing is pak army follows this type of thinking. they do research and development but never show it.

and plz dont put this nonsense of china or north korean missiles ok....

we have been researching for a long time suparco and nescom are there for a reason they research on missiles and its happening everyday just bcz we dont test things doesnt mean we dont have it considering how things i am sure that army has a few aces up their sleeves that they will never reveal but i still say no army official would reveal such secrets if they wanted to reveal it they would test it. that how pak army works.

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## IceCold

sandy_3126 said:


> Vinasha kale viparita Budhi.....
> 
> Do not wish for enmity with USA, they will bring enormous pain beyond your realm of imagination. Russia will not budge from its current position much and if you cross swords with US you will find the quickest and most astonishing disappearing act by the chinese.
> Not every country has boundless patience like India, you try to play nuclear blackmail with US, next minute you will have b2's knocking on your door.



Its never about patience, its about a single fact i.e India knows Pakistan can hit back. This reality has alone kept India at bay. Whether you agree or not, the fact of the matter is that the presence of nuclear weapons have stabilized the region. I am not saying we need to go to war with the USA, heck i don't want to see Pakistan in war with anyone not even India, but then there is reality and that reality forces you to defend yourself and one cannot just always defend by keeping a defensive posture.

And no the B-2 will not be knocking on our doors, because the result of that action could be very devastating.

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## Zarvan

IceCold said:


> Pakistan needed an ICBM right after we were threaten the 1st time. Gaining this capability however will not be an easy task because this would be the same as building nuclear weapons again but multiply it with 10. US does not like our nuclear capability one bit, how will the US feel when it finds out that Pakistan now not only have nukes but also the capability to hit the main land.
> To survive that we need alot of things to change:
> 1) Our pathetic so called democratic regime
> 2) A strong economy which is directly linked to number 1
> 3) Some kind of understanding with the Indians, perhaps even making them a stake holder in Pakistan
> 4) Develop ties which Russia on fast track. This is linked with point number 3.
> 
> Without doing the above, developing an ICBM will be futile, not just futile, it will create problems for Pakistan many folds .


Sir why are you so obsessed with America first of all our whole Nuclear Program is being run by our Armed Forces Civilians governments don't have a crap to do with it secondly our Nuclear Program has always carried forward despite our bad economy and her come Saudi Arabia and other countries and finally Pakistan has developed ICBM the question is when Pakistan would like to reveal it and by the way Pakistan is already increasing its Nuclear weapons and whole world knows about it to


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## mjnaushad

sandy_3126 said:


> !
> 
> by game changers I mean , f86 sabres, F-104 Starfighter, F16's, Aim-9x, Aim 120C, most of your ground radars.
> 
> you can cry china china as much as you want, but when the going gets tough its always america who bails out



regarding F86 and F104 ... At that time US was as close to Pakistan as China... And i dont know the terms of that transfer

But the F16 and Aim 120c were not a bail out... They were pure business transaction.... Take cash give items....where is the bail out in it.???


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## IceCold

Zarvan said:


> Sir why are you so obsessed with America first of all our whole Nuclear Program is being run by our Armed Forces Civilians governments don't have a crap to do with it secondly our Nuclear Program has always carried forward despite our bad economy and her come Saudi Arabia and other countries and finally Pakistan has developed ICBM the question is when Pakistan would like to reveal it and by the way Pakistan is already increasing its Nuclear weapons and whole world knows about it to



Increasing your current stockpile is of no little to no relevance specially when you don't have the means to deliver them. 
As for why am i obsessed with America, i think this is something you should also ask yourself why are you not? As for me, well i am as much obsessed with America as America is obsessed with our nuclear program. The threat to send us back to stone age was not given by India but by the US of A. By developing a deterrence we are not threatening anyone, we are just ensuring our existence.

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## tjpf

saiyan0321 said:


> this is why pakistan needs an icbm but never reveal it. revealing it will create snctions and problems for pakistan that we cant afford. i say make it and keep it safe and sound and work on improving it bcz as of now in international politics none is friends forever. and america like it or not is an enemy in disguise keep good relations but always be prepared. like i said pull an israel make it and just dont reveal it and the best thing is pak army follows this type of thinking. they do research and development but never show it.
> 
> and plz dont put this nonsense of china or north korean missiles ok....
> 
> *we have been researching for a long time suparco and nescom are there for a reason they research on missiles and its happening everyday just bcz we dont test things doesnt mean we dont have it considering how things i am sure that army has a few aces up their sleeves that they will never reveal but i still say no army official would reveal such secrets if they wanted to reveal it they would test it. that how pak army works*.



but you gotta test it to be sure that it works....
god forbid if pakistan goes to war with USA ..... you launch your 'ICBM' without actual testing and it turns out to be a dud like NK's then!!!!! not to mention a complex missile shield in and around USA to take down any missile threat
china will equip ou to fight INDIA but i doubt it will give its 'ICBM' to fight with USA



IceCold said:


> Its never about patience, its about a single fact i.e India knows Pakistan can hit back. This reality has alone kept India at bay. Whether you agree or not, the fact of the matter is that the presence of nuclear weapons have stabilized the region. I am not saying we need to go to war with the USA, heck i don't want to see Pakistan in war with anyone not even India, but then there is reality and that reality forces you to defend yourself and one cannot just always defend by keeping a defensive posture.
> 
> And no the B-2 will not be knocking on our doors, because the result of that action could be very devastating.



we are your neighbours hence we know you can target us with your missiles easily...your soldiers can carry it and throw those nukes into this side of the border and vice versa...
but the problem with regard to USA is that you launch your 'ICBM' without actual testing and it turns out to be a dud like NK's then!!!!! not to mention a complex missile shield in and around USA to take down any missile threat
china will equip ou to fight INDIA but i doubt it will give its 'ICBM' to fight with USA


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## Zarvan

IceCold said:


> Increasing your current stockpile is of no little to no relevance specially when you don't have the means to deliver them.
> As for why am i obsessed with America, i think this is something you should also ask yourself why are you not? As for me, well i am as much obsessed with America as America is obsessed with our nuclear program. The threat to send us back to stone age was not given by India but by the US of A. By developing a deterrence we are not threatening anyone, we are just ensuring our existence.


Sir the threat is not new I am not obsessed because I am not afraid of a country which has got its ........ kicked by every small country it had gone to have war with and they have threatening long time ago still we have carried our nuclear program ahead and and are continuing to do so and and as far as ICBMS are concerned Pakistan has been working on them from quite sometime now so Pakistan Armed Forces gives a dam on what America has to say on our nuclear issue this is not bunch of toys that they can threaten us and take away yes still we carry our nuclear program and that thread is really old now by the way people living in stone age are the one who they are now begging to talk (Taliban ) by developing just de trance we are not ensuring our safety for safety we will have to go for ICBMS which we already are the question only is when to show to the world in form of tests


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## T-Rex

Oscar said:


> A 9000km missile would not just be a message to the western power that its time to blow Pakistan to smithereens.
> it will be a message to Israel.. saying "Oh..so you thought you were safe ..did you?"



*That's what the fools thought the US would do to the USSR before the latter tested its first nuke! But in reality blowing a nuclear power to smithereens is quite impossible, it is only possible in movies.*

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## user1

sandy_3126 said:


> !
> 
> by game changers I mean , f86 sabres, F-104 Starfighter, F16's, Aim-9x, Aim 120C, most of your ground radars.
> 
> you can cry china china as much as you want, but when the going gets tough its always america who bails out




Why do you think they were a game changer? 

As an Indian, you will always say that India was victorious in 1965 & 1971 war and had air superiority over PAF too. 

One of these statements needs to be incorrect for you to be correct, either F-86 & F-104 Starfighters were not game changers or India lost the wars or at least did not have air superiority in those wars.

Which one do you choose?


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## IceCold

Zarvan said:


> Sir the threat is not new I am not obsessed because I am not afraid of a country which has got its ........ kicked by every small country it had gone to have war with



At what cost?



> and they have threatening long time ago still we have carried our nuclear program ahead and and are continuing to do so and and as far as ICBMS are concerned Pakistan has been working on them from quite sometime now so Pakistan Armed Forces gives a dam on what America has to say on our nuclear issue this is not bunch of toys that they can threaten us and take away yes still we carry our nuclear program and that thread is really old now by the way people living in stone age are the one who they are now begging to talk (Taliban ) by developing just de trance we are not ensuring our safety for safety we will have to go for ICBMS which we already are the question only is when to show to the world in form of tests



This is the same over confidence which made 90000 men surrender in 71. I am not going to go into detail but the fact is you cannot possibly think of defending yourself without proper means to defend yourself.



tjpf said:


> we are your neighbours hence we know you can target us with your missiles easily...your soldiers can carry it and throw those nukes into this side of the border and vice versa...
> but the problem with regard to USA is that you launch your 'ICBM' without actual testing and it turns out to be a dud like NK's then!!!!! not to mention a complex missile shield in and around USA to take down any missile threat
> china will equip ou to fight INDIA but i doubt it will give its 'ICBM' to fight with USA



That does not mean you sit idle and do nothing and wait for your faith to catch up. By the way China does not equip us to fight anyone.


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## Zarvan

IceCold said:


> At what cost?
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same over confidence which made 90000 men surrender in 71. I am not going to go into detail but the fact is you cannot possibly think of defending yourself without proper means to defend yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> That does not mean you sit idle and do nothing and wait for your faith to catch up. By the way China does not equip us to fight anyone.


 
Sir those countries didn't had much already so they lost nothing much but America faced lot of embarrassment and we lost 71 is the biggest lesson to have ICBM because we didn't had enough equipment to safe our selves and America is not GOD sir we countries have taken a stand against it and Pakistan is far more stronger than those countries American economy is already on verge of collapse it can't afford much wars


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## King Solomon

Zarvan said:


> Sir those countries didn't had much already so they lost nothing much but America faced lot of embarrassment and we lost 71 is the biggest lesson to have ICBM because we didn't had enough equipment to safe our selves and America is not GOD sir we countries have taken a stand against it and Pakistan is far more stronger than those countries American economy is already on verge of collapse it can't afford much wars



Interesting. Explain how having ICBM could have made you win 1971 war?


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## MilSpec

IceCold said:


> Its never about patience, its about a single fact i.e India knows Pakistan can hit back. This reality has alone kept India at bay. Whether you agree or not, the fact of the matter is that the presence of nuclear weapons have stabilized the region. I am not saying we need to go to war with the USA, heck i don't want to see Pakistan in war with anyone not even India, but then there is reality and that reality forces you to defend yourself and one cannot just always defend by keeping a defensive posture.
> 
> And no the B-2 will not be knocking on our doors, because the *result of that action could be very devastating*.



It's your ignorance that you live in lala land where big bad indian are out for blood of pakistanis. You did not have nuke capability and we still were a a bigger power, Never did once we even think of invading or attacking pakistan. It is not you nukes that have stabilized the region, but the responsibility of well being of 1/6th of world population that ensures our hands are tied down despite the nuisance value of your tactics. 

I agree with you that the region should maintain peace despite differences and even occasional flare ups, too much is at stake here. 


reality check, before you guys bring your smack talk against US, remember that they are barely 10mins away from your border. As far as the big devastation you are talking about, please zip it, they have been bombing you at will, and your military cannot do jack.


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## Armstrong

S-19 said:


> Interesting. Explain how having ICBM could have made you win 1971 war?



Perhaps not an ICBM...but a nuke...any nuke would have !


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## CorporateAffairs

Awesome Pak 

Congrats to all my Pak brothers 

rougue states trying to use and throw you aganist us, will now start having sleepless nights


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## MilSpec

user1 said:


> Why do you think they were a game changer?
> 
> As an Indian, you will always say that India was victorious in 1965 & 1971 war and had air superiority over PAF too.
> 
> One of these statements needs to be incorrect for you to be correct, either F-86 & F-104 Starfighters were not game changers or India lost the wars or at least did not have air superiority in those wars.
> 
> Which one do you choose?



Well your comprehension skills are not my problem. With 2:1 numerical advantage in mid 60's pakistan needed a potent, proven dogfighter, f86 gave you technolgical edge over whatever india had back then. 

With india's MIG 21 in the 70's mach2 fighter capability was matched by starfighter, despite the results...

F16's given to pakistan were the only potent fighters to stand up to mirages and fulcrums of IAF. 

To this date the most capable platform in your arsenal is Blk52 with AIM 120C which can finally counter the BVR threats of IAF. 

just because germans had technological edge didn't mean they won the world war, get it!



Armstrong said:


> Perhaps not an ICBM...but a nuke...any nuke would have !



true you would have nuked east pakistan...


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## King Solomon

Armstrong said:


> Perhaps not an ICBM...but a nuke...any nuke would have !



I seriously doubt. For one thing, if you had nuke, it is more logical to assume that India would have nukes too. Now, in december 1971, you had the choice to:

- Grant independence to east pakistan and surrender to India.

- Nuke india and risk annihilation of *west* pakistan as well.

Which one would you chose?

I have studied the situation and India's plan was perfect. The most perfect. THough it received much help from USSR.

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## Android

S-19 said:


> Interesting. Explain how having ICBM could have made you win 1971 war?


 
they would have threaten ussr to prevent them from interfering
or threaten usa or china to come to their aid


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## monitor

Well the news is based on a unknown newspaper . they may hype the issue to get attention .so i am not getting excited but do wish Pakistan achieved such capability soon . best of luck


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## user1

sandy_3126 said:


> Well your comprehension skills are not my problem. With 2:1 numerical advantage in mid 60's pakistan needed a potent,* proven dogfighter, f86 gave you technolgical edge* over whatever india had back then.
> 
> With india's MIG 21 in the 70's *mach2 fighter capability was matched by starfighte*r, despite the results...
> 
> F16's given to pakistan were the only potent fighters to stand up to mirages and fulcrums of IAF.
> 
> To this date the most capable platform in your arsenal is Blk52 with AIM 120C which can finally counter the BVR threats of IAF.
> 
> *just because germans had technological edge didn't mean they won the world war*, get it!



You are saying that Pakistan had technological edge (due to US Assistance) in 1965 - 1971 but it still didn't win just like Germans had technology and they couldn't win. So, if Pakistan couldn't win then how could it be a game changing technology?

The real game changers are Nuclear and Missile technology; it was every intention of US to stop Pakistan in it's tracks to develop any of these and because, being an Indian you will say that Pakistan could not have developed those without China's help then, it turns out to be China which has provided us the game changers not US.

Which one do you want to accept now?

Pakistan indigenously developed it's Nuclear/Missile technology 
or 
US helped Pakistan 
or 
China helped Pakistan.


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## Armstrong

S-19 said:


> I seriously doubt. For one thing, if you had nuke, it is more logical to assume that India would have nukes too. Now, in december 1971, you had the choice to:
> 
> - Grant independence to east pakistan and surrender to India.
> 
> - Nuke india and risk annihilation of *west* pakistan as well.
> 
> Which one would you chose?
> 
> I have studied the situation and India's plan was perfect. The most perfect. THough it received much help from USSR.



Thats exactly how the 'Nuclear Deterrence' works ! In '71 India would have had the choice to : 

- Cross into East-Pakistan and fight a Pakistani Army trying to quell popular uprising and armed resistance, knowing full well that in such a scenario, Pakistan's nuclear threshold wouldn't be the same as otherwise. 

- Risk Pakistan using tactical nukes if that threshold is breached i.e Pakistan Army is loosing significant land in the East or that the Pakistani pre emptive offensive in the West makes use of tactical nukes. 

- Or when worst comes to worst, risks Pakistan nuking one of their cities, when Dhaka is about to fall ? In such an instance whether Pakistan is bluffing or not...is going to be massively important ! 

Think of the Cuban missile crisis and how even the Soviet Union backed down when Kennedy threatened Nuclear retaliation if the nukes reached Cuba ! Even the Soviets had to consider the ever so integral question 'What if they're not bluffing ?' 

So my friend this is exactly how the Nuclear Deterrence works. A more recent case in point could be North Korea or even Iran...both of them with a much bigger nuisance value then either Libya or Syria and yet the US doesn't start any military overtures against either because 'a nuke is involved' ! So I do think that if Pakistan had a nuke in '71...India-Pakistan would have fought a small border skirmish on the East or had a Military stand-off because of Indian support for the Mukhti Bahini and Pakistan's military crack-down but never an all out war like the one we had ! Heck we probably wouldn't have clashed in '65 had either of us 'a nuke' - Pakistan wouldn't have initiated Operation Gibraltor and India wouldn't have crossed over the International Border in response !

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## MilSpec

user1 said:


> You are saying that Pakistan had technological edge (due to US Assistance) in 1965 - 1971 but it still didn't win just like Germans had technology and they couldn't win. So, if Pakistan couldn't win then how could it be a game changing technology?
> 
> The real game changers are Nuclear and Missile technology; it was every intention of US to stop Pakistan in it's tracks to develop any of these and because, being an Indian you will say that Pakistan could not have developed those without China's help then, it turns out to be China which has provided us the game changers not US.
> 
> Which one do you want to accept now?
> 
> Pakistan indigenously developed it's Nuclear/Missile technology
> or
> US helped Pakistan
> or
> China helped Pakistan.



these were "game changers" because they gave you parity with India which you didn't have .... hope that makes it clear...

bottom line: 
Pakistan's missile program did receive help from china and NK, that doesn't discount any of pak's indigenous effort. 
Pakistan's missile program has had immense success and the capability they possess now places their scientist and engineers among world's best. 

USA has aided pakistan with weapon system which have been back bone of minimal credible deterrence against India.

Apart from that, if you insist that china's role has been more crucial than that of US, then it is your opinion, but me (and your own military) differ in that. If that was the case, pakistan would start putting its eggs in chinese basket, wouldn't they.

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## lightoftruth

a popularity seeker source its like put pakistan some icbm and voila !! u got multiple views


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## SQ8

sandy_3126 said:


> these were "game changers" because they gave you parity with India which you didn't have .... hope that makes it clear...
> 
> bottom line:
> Pakistan's missile program did receive help from china and NK, that doesn't discount any of pak's indigenous effort.
> Pakistan's missile program has had immense success and the capability they possess now places their scientist and engineers among world's best.
> 
> USA has aided pakistan with weapon system which have been back bone of minimal credible deterrence against India.
> 
> Apart from that, if you insist that china's role has been more crucial than that of US, then it is your opinion, but me (and your own military) differ in that. If that was the case, pakistan would start putting its eggs in chinese basket, wouldn't they.



I think the support has been equal.. 
Its never been a case of cake batter from there and icing from there.
Its been a mix of both to make the whole cake.

The initial guidance systems were based of an amalgamation of Chinese and European designs.. 
Current ones have no input whatsoever.
The US's input was greatest with that tomahawk.. and some part of the harpoon.
Since they both provided a learning example of where to start from and what to include.

The Shaheen series for eg.. was initially developed by people who were nuclear scientists by profession!...who literally had to pick up a book on basic rocketeering and begin reading about it.
And as much as the crap about M-11's being the Shaheen posted.. there was very little input from the M-11 into the Shaheen apart from the usual hands on example to look at.
Ideas from it.. and other sources(literature, sourced plans..etc).. were used into the Shaheen series.

The NK hand has been mostly just purchase and deploy...nobody likes the liquid fuelled variety that much.
and the Nodongs were only needed as a quick fix to the need for a deployment system.

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## Viper0011.

S-19 said:


> I seriously doubt. For one thing, if you had nuke, it is more logical to assume that India would have nukes too. Now, in december 1971, you had the choice to:
> 
> - Grant independence to east pakistan and surrender to India.
> 
> - Nuke india and risk annihilation of *west* pakistan as well.
> 
> Which one would you chose?
> 
> I have studied the situation and India's plan was perfect. The most perfect. THough it received much help from USSR.


 
Well my fried, not sure where you've done your 'studies' at. But you need to find a better school. if there were nukes in 1971.....there wouldn't be a war!!! US strategy & think tanks have already concluded that and other military institutions have also done that.
The whole 'annihilation of Pak' deal sounds a line from the movies. Just so you know. The worst scenario is MAD all the way. There is no such thing as one get annihilated and the other looses just one city. I PRAY TO GOD things NEVER get to this point and that India and Pak become like European union and friends....helping around 1.5 billion people get better health, education and a prosperous future (majority of these 1.5 billion people are poor btw)


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## IceCold

sandy_3126 said:


> It's your ignorance that you live in lala land where big bad indian are out for blood of pakistanis. You did not have nuke capability and we still were a a bigger power, Never did once we even think of invading or attacking pakistan. It is not you nukes that have stabilized the region, but the responsibility of well being of 1/6th of world population that ensures our hands are tied down despite the nuisance value of your tactics.
> 
> I agree with you that the region should maintain peace despite differences and even occasional flare ups, too much is at stake here.




It is high time you lay off from your moral high horse. Your post makes me laugh, really without any pun intended. So India does not attack us out of it sheer good will and well being of 1/6th of world population. I just cant stop laughing. You made by day thanks.



> reality check, before you guys bring your smack talk against US, remember that they are barely 10mins away from your border. As far as the big devastation you are talking about, please zip it, they have been bombing you at will, and your military cannot do jack.



My military can or cannot do anything is something we don't need any Indian lecturing us, so shut up. I am not interested in your gibberish about what my military can or cannot do.


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## MilSpec

Oscar said:


> I think the support has been equal..
> Its never been a case of cake batter from there and icing from there.
> Its been a mix of both to make the whole cake.
> 
> The initial guidance systems were based of an amalgamation of Chinese and European designs..
> Current ones have no input whatsoever.
> The US's input was greatest with that tomahawk.. and some part of the harpoon.
> Since they both provided a learning example of where to start from and what to include.
> 
> The Shaheen series for eg.. was initially developed by people who were nuclear scientists by profession!...who literally had to pick up a book on basic rocketeering and begin reading about it.
> And as much as the crap about M-11's being the Shaheen posted.. there was very little input from the M-11 into the Shaheen apart from the usual hands on example to look at.
> Ideas from it.. and other sources(literature, sourced plans..etc).. were used into the Shaheen series.
> 
> The NK hand has been mostly just purchase and deploy...nobody likes the liquid fuelled variety that much.
> and the Nodongs were only needed as a quick fix to the need for a deployment system.



sir, 
The previous member whom I was responding to, like many others here on the forum are very quick to discount America's support to pakistan to ensure there is stability in the region. 

To ensure regional stability, it is necessary that pakistan's military must be strong enough to thwart any threat from India. Same is for India vis-a-vis china. As many members here a quite vocal about sending ICBM's to the big apple, my view is american friendship has longterm benefits and but depending on america has short term losses, but enmity purely stupid. The reason for chiniese hardware being purchased by pakistan is more financial than strategic, If pakistan could easily afford f18's or f15's would they still be buying JF's and j10's, i highly doubt it, but others may disagree. In the end your government needs to do ensure all is well" between islamabad and Wn DC

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## MilSpec

IceCold said:


> It is high time you lay off from your moral high horse. Your post makes me laugh, really without any pun intended. So India does not attack us out of it sheer good will and well being of 1/6th of world population. I just cant stop laughing. You made by day thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> My military can or cannot do anything is something we don't need any Indian lecturing us, so shut up. I am not interested in your gibberish about what my military can or cannot do.



I am glad you find simple facts amusing, let me spell it out, we never invaded pakistan despite of what is portrayed here and thats the fact... simple 

your military is your concern, but when people claim about devastation w.r.t the US military especially in current scenario when they are sitting in your backyard, it just sounds retarded.

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## IceCold

sandy_3126 said:


> I am glad you find simple facts amusing, let me spell it out, we never invaded pakistan despite of what is portrayed here and thats the fact... simple
> 
> your military is your concern, but when people claim about devastation w.r.t the US military especially in current scenario when they are sitting in your backyard, it just sounds retarded.



Simple facts so you say but is that really what Indians think about themselves, the holier then thou attitude is what i find amusing.
Funny how you took out one word from the entire post, twist it around and produced a meaning of its own. 
The only things you Indians can think of to support your straw man's argument is hey look they are sitting in your back ground, look they strike you at will. 
Has it ever occurred to your pea sized brain that stopping the US attack has more to with the democratic government then the military. Go a few pages back and read my post i said before acquiring an ICBM, we need to change many things otherwise the whole effort would be futile and the top of that list was changing this inept government. I mentioned other reasons, one of which was better understanding with India, but you choose to ignore that. So who is the retard here, I'll leave that for the readers to decide.
Now if you have comprehension problems, i cant help you with that but stop posting nonsense for the sake of it.


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## IceCold

sandy_3126 said:


> sir,
> The previous member whom I was responding to, like many others here on the forum are very quick to discount America's support to pakistan to ensure there is stability in the region.
> 
> To ensure regional stability, it is necessary that pakistan's military must be strong enough to thwart any threat from India. Same is for India vis-a-vis china. As many members here a quite vocal about sending ICBM's to the big apple, my view is american friendship has longterm benefits and but depending on america has short term losses, but enmity purely stupid. The reason for chiniese hardware being purchased by pakistan is more financial than strategic, If pakistan could easily afford f18's or f15's would they still be buying JF's and j10's, i highly doubt it, but others may disagree. In the end your government needs to do ensure all is well" between islamabad and Wn DC



before that you said i was an ignorant living in a la la land where big bad Indians are out for blood of Pakistanis and now you suggesting that Pakistan military must be strong to thwart any threat from India. Self contradicting are we? So either you agree that India is a threat, Pakistan military needs to thwart or it is not and Pakistanis are a bunch of fools who consider it to be.
And for your last line, the buying of Chinese hardware over the US has more to do with sanctions free then money. Are you really that naive that you cant see that US hardware comes with strings attached and they are prone to sanctions.Shall i repeat history lessons for you.
India itself was very careful in selecting a jet for its MRCA tender. Even your fellow countrymen would agree on the dubious dealings of the US specially when it comes to selling of military hardware,US is not a trustworthy supplier a lesson Pakistan learn the hard way. 
How far are you willing to go to prove your namak haalli to the US of A.

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## user1

sandy_3126 said:


> these were "game changers" because they gave you parity with India which you didn't have .... hope that makes it clear...



Despite the parity (planes), both countries went to war. A *game changer* is that radically alters a situation or method, for example, *stopping a war* instead of starting one. Since Pakistan got it's nukes, two war threats have been averted: once in early 80s and then at the turn of this century.



Oscar said:


> I think the support has been equal..
> 
> The initial guidance systems were based of an amalgamation of Chinese and European designs..
> Current ones have no input whatsoever.
> The US's input was greatest with that tomahawk.. and some part of the harpoon.
> Since they both provided a learning example of where to start from and what to include.



Has US provided Pakistan with any of the technology of defence imports that it sold to Pakistan?
Are there any high-tech weapon systems that Pakistan is producing under licence from US?
Did US provide Tomahawk missiles or their technology to Pakistan?
Does Pakistan have a defence co-operation project (ToT) with USA in any Missile program, fighter plane, frigates, sub-marines etc.

Doesn't look equal to me.

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## SQ8

user1 said:


> Has US provided Pakistan with any of the technology of defence imports that it sold to Pakistan?
> Are there any high-tech weapon systems that Pakistan is producing under licence from US?
> Did US provide Tomahawk missiles or their technology to Pakistan?
> Does Pakistan have a defence co-operation project (ToT) with USA in any Missile program, fighter plane, frigates, sub-marines etc.
> 
> Doesn't look equal to me.



You are taking equal in an unrelated context..
the equal I referred to was the contribution of US based tech(through whatever means.. legal or illegal) to our defence industry.


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## tvsram1992

Albatross said:


> *do you guys know Pak sent its first rocket rehbar 1Rehbar-I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia into space in 1961 and india was able to do so 2 years later in 1963..it proves the edge we have over indians regarding rockets and missiles* thats another thing we cant showoff all we have owing to certain factors as i mentioned in my last post..But guys I have my own resouces which cant be disclosed on an open forum like this but we do have missiles ready to be tested with ranges b/w 9000-1000 km and time will tell...and the learned circles around the globe know it


dont be a retard , first place a satellite in space from your land and say about prove your rocket capabilities to the world  Dont believe computer simulations are missile tests . You had not done any test yet and yet you believe they are real . Btw i have a word to chill you . India has a missile that can reach moon (PSLV)


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## bindaas

For ICBM of 9000+ km, a country need something called Cryogenic Engines. Since, Pakistan's space Agency could not even design a rocket to launch a Satellite (which also uses Cryogenic Engines) and still relying on China. So, Pakistan possessing a missile of range 9000+km is 100% "not-possible".


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## SQ8

bindaas said:


> For ICBM of 9000+ km, a country need something called Cryogenic Engines. Since, Pakistan's space Agency could not even design a rocket to *launch a Satellite (which also uses Cryogenic Engines) and still relying on China*. So, Pakistan possessing a missile of range 9000+km is 100% "not-possible".



What if its cheaper to rely on China than making our own?

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## Adnan Faruqi

Oscar said:


> Hearsay again..
> The range on the Shaheen 1-A may go to 1500 only by reducing payload to a small degree.
> I would rather not comment on the ICBM part...
> 
> *since this thread is soon about to have some smart alec people from India posting demeaning comments*...



How Indians are to blame if u allow such threads?????

Hear say seriously??????

The radar, other network systems, reentry technology the list is very long and for certain that pakistan don't have any ICBM capability.

"Dil behlane ko galib khayal achcha hai."


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## Capt.Popeye

Oscar said:


> What if its cheaper to rely on China than making our own?



Don't we (you and I) already know that.


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## bindaas

Oscar said:


> What if its cheaper to rely on China than making our own?



I read Pakistan is still working on SLV by modifying Shaheen missile.


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## SQ8

Adnan Faruqi said:


> How Indians are to blame if u allow such threads?????
> 
> Hear say seriously??????
> 
> The radar, other network systems, reentry technology the list is very long and for certain that pakistan don't have any ICBM capability.
> 
> "Dil behlane ko galib khayal achcha hai."



In other words.. 
you are acknowledging that you are one of those ALF's that fall into this category of smart alecs.
and have provided proof of that right after. 



bindaas said:


> I read Pakistan is still working on SLV by modifying Shaheen missile.



No..
The effort was abandoned when cheaper alternatives were available.

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## cloud_9

Pakistan's premier online intelligence stream. From the people who leaked Hamid Mir's audiotape. Our previous username was 'ISI Fanpage'. Same crew, new brand: Terminal X.  
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## MilSpec

IceCold said:


> before that you said i was an ignorant living in a la la land where big bad Indians are out for blood of Pakistanis and now you suggesting that Pakistan military must be strong to thwart any threat from India. Self contradicting are we? So either you agree that India is a threat, Pakistan military needs to thwart or it is not and Pakistanis are a bunch of fools who consider it to be.
> And for your last line, the buying of Chinese hardware over the US has more to do with sanctions free then money. Are you really that naive that you cant see that US hardware comes with strings attached and they are prone to sanctions.Shall i repeat history lessons for you.
> India itself was very careful in selecting a jet for its MRCA tender. Even your fellow countrymen would agree on the dubious dealings of the US specially when it comes to selling of military hardware,US is not a trustworthy supplier a lesson Pakistan learn the hard way.
> How far are you willing to go to prove your namak haalli to the US of A.



Okay... let me simplify it for you, India is not an existential threat for pakistan and has no intentions to occupy or decimate pakistan as potrayed by a lot of you guys. But due to their history and high probability of conflict, it is important that pakistan military must have the muscle to thwart any offensive from India in case of hostilities. Hence a strong and responsible pakistan adds to the stability of the region. 

Next, about the american hardware, I wonder why KSA, Israel, Australia, turkey, never had any problems with their american hardware? Indian MMRCA initial shortlisting was done on performance basis and eft/rafale were shortlisted, even mig35 got the boot even though they are the most reliable suppliers.

namak halili - jyaada sodium is not good for me,, thanks anyways

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## MilSpec

IceCold said:


> before that you said i was an ignorant living in a la la land where big bad Indians are out for blood of Pakistanis and now you suggesting that Pakistan military must be strong to thwart any threat from India. Self contradicting are we? So either you agree that India is a threat, Pakistan military needs to thwart or it is not and Pakistanis are a bunch of fools who consider it to be.
> And for your last line, the buying of Chinese hardware over the US has more to do with sanctions free then money. Are you really that naive that you cant see that US hardware comes with strings attached and they are prone to sanctions.Shall i repeat history lessons for you.
> India itself was very careful in selecting a jet for its MRCA tender. Even your fellow countrymen would agree on the dubious dealings of the US specially when it comes to selling of military hardware,US is not a trustworthy supplier a lesson Pakistan learn the hard way.
> How far are you willing to go to prove your namak haalli to the US of A.



double post................


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## alimobin memon

There are few things not to be leaked ... seriously do you guys think , After so many embargoes pakistan will announce that it has ICBM'S ofcourse we have and at the other hand dont worry soon u are going to see SLV in Pakistan not just soon ... very soon , However Trust me in 2012 People are going to have atleast 10 surprises from pakistan might shock and scare someone.


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## turkish

What prove you have for such a claim.... Some dumb Fuk in India can also claim that India has a secret aircraft which is stealthier than F-22 or better than F22... If Pak has such capabilities Iam sure soon they will shoot satellites in the sky...


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## RayKalm

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I hope so, but Pakistan should keep in low profile about the ICBMs, since Uncle Sam will try to cause more troubles to you guys if they discover that.



Yes, this is why I trust and love my army so much. They know how to deal with every situation - from economy, to timing. 

When the time comes, when we have a decent economy, and when we will need to show our strength, we will test this inshallah.

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## King Solomon

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## ChineseTiger1986

If Pakistan having ICBMs, it is not a threat to India at all, instead it does benefit India for sure. 



RayKalm said:


> Yes, this is why I trust and love my army so much. They know how to deal with every situation - from economy, to timing.
> 
> When the time comes, when we have a decent economy, and when we will need to show our strength, we will test this inshallah.



I think in the long term strategy, the decision made by the Pakistani Army was right.

Keep in the low profile will provide more room to do more things.

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## King Solomon

RayKalm said:


> Yes, this is why I trust and love my army so much. They know how to deal with every situation - from economy, to timing.
> 
> When the time comes, when we have a decent economy, and when we will need to show our strength, we will test this inshallah.



Every professional military force knows these. Usually, every decision taken by every military (Indian army, Pakistan's, or US) takes into account two factors:

- How much do we hope to achieve by doing this? (diplomatic? some land?)

- How much do we lose? (infrastructure destroyed, sanctions, economic effects, public reaction)

- Weighing both. 

Most of the times the sensible option would be "no action", but that is what gets some people upset as they are calling for war every now and then (like Iran and UAE fanboys...)

In this case, IF pakistan has ICBM, the sanctions, diplomatic smear campaign etc. would be more than the "show of power" and "supremacy" that Pakistan may achieve by testing ICBM.


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## pakistanitarzan

At first I didnt wanted to waste server space of PDF by making this post but anyways, here it goes? Are you ready? If Paksitan already had nuclear weapons since the 80's (unannounced), what makes some people think that Pakistan does not have ICBM? I am sure Pakistan had ICBM since the early 2000's but there is a right time for everything and when the right time comes, we will test it!

Similarly, I beleive that India also had ICBM's of atleast 10,000 km range but they are also smart enough to know when is the right time to test it to avoid unintended circumstances.


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## Mercenary

pakistanitarzan said:


> At first I didnt wanted to waste server space of PDF by making this post but anyways, here it goes? Are you ready? If Paksitan already had nuclear weapons since the 80's (unannounced), what makes some people think that Pakistan does not have ICBM? I am sure Pakistan had ICBM since the early 2000's but there is a right time for everything and when the right time comes, we will test it!
> 
> Similarly, I beleive that India also had ICBM's of atleast 10,000 km range but they are also smart enough to know when is the right time to test it to avoid unintended circumstances.



Thats like saying USA made the Atomic Bomb in 1945, then why didn't USA have an ICBM in 1945?

You certainly wasted PDF server space with that gem of a post

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## IceCold

sandy_3126 said:


> *Okay... let me simplify it for you, India is not an existential threat for pakistan and has no intentions to occupy or decimate pakistan as potrayed by a lot of you guys.*



The highlighted part, maybe i have missed but can you point out where i am said the same?


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## Zarvan

S-19 said:


> Interesting. Explain how having ICBM could have made you win 1971 war?


India wouldn't have attacked on the first place India attacked because we lacked equipment a lot


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## Infinity

Albatross said:


> LAHORE: Earlier on April 26, 2012 when news broke of Pakistan testing its new Intermediate Ballistic Missile Hatf-IV (Shaheen-1A), Terminal X contacted Brigadier Ateeq ur Rehman, Director PR for the Pakistani military's Inter-Services Public Relations regarding the range of the latest variant. This scribe was informed that the range has not been disclosed for various reasons.
> 
> Later today, a Pakistani military source for TX made an important disclosure: the mysterious range everyone was guessing for the Shaheen-1A is not 2500 kilometers or 5000 kilometers as some exaggerated, it has a maximum range of just 1500 kilometers. According to the official, there were two main objectives of this short test:
> Enhance accuracy for pinpoint attacks
> Inclusion into the league of nations which have developed intermediate ballistic missiles.
> The official stated that Pakistan's deterrence is foremostly against any aggressive Indian adventurism that can turn the region into an inferno. In the official's opinion, India carried out the recent Agni-V ICBM test to send an indirect signal to its rival China, whom it has strong reservations against for various reasons.
> 
> It was also revealed by the official that India's military establishment has not shared the actual range of the Agni-V ICBM which happens to be 8000 kilometers, not 5000 kilometers as falsely broadcast in the mainstream media.
> 
> 
> "Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres", said the official, "But they will be revealed and tested when there is a need for it. At the moment, Pakistan is silently observing the Eastern Theatre of Operations spearheaded by the US and its increasing presence in Europe, the Pacific Ocean and South Asia. Add to that Indian frolicking and the coming US-Israel drills in the Middle East... and when the time comes, those who should know, will know, Pakistan also has targets beyond India... way beyond India".
> 
> He added, "A wise group does not consider the Agni-V test as a threat for Pakistan but rather for China, and China is smart enough to deal with it. The military establishment is not really considering ICBM tests soon since we consider silence as the ultimate weapon. *It might be that Israel signaled India to provoke Pakistan into doing an ICBM test and exposing their exact range so that an international conspiracy against the country's nukes could be initiated as is being currently done against North Korea*. Far from being slapped with sanctions, India instead received appreciation from the US, NATO and Israel for its recent test".
> 
> 
> And, as this scribe repeated the million dollar question, 'Any ICBM tests in the pipeline?'
> 
> "Well, yes.. My vote is not for it though".
> 
> Exclusive: Pakistani security official discusses the Shaheen-1A test ~ Terminal X



Land of Conspiracy theories.............We have many long term goals..............and we assure you that your country is not in it..........


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## Awesome

lol @ Terminal X


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## Su-11

What is this TerminalX? Looks like some newbie site looking for more hits with spicy concocted news.


----------



## protest

Okay.. No one seem to see the big (actually massive) elephant in the room. Unfortunately, North Korea is yet to develop this capability. Last one they tried burned to ground. Catch my drift.


----------



## crankthatskunk

Oscar said:


> The point is, the maximum range Pakistan needs is not greater than 4000km with a respectable payload..
> with that you endager the andaman islands.and kolgata..
> although Im not sure about how we would feel in the scenario having to hit kolgata and possibly endanger Bangladeshis as well.
> but then again.. in the worst case scenario between us..
> The whole region will go to ****.
> 
> A 9000km missile would not just be a message to the western power that its time to blow Pakistan to smithereens.
> it will be a message to Israel.. saying "Oh..so you thought you were safe ..did you?"



oscar, I think Israel already know that. Why you think they never openly challenge us, covertly they are always planning with India and USA against Pakistan. But they would never threaten us like they do to Iran on regular basis. Israel is least bit of our worries. We know who support Israel.


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Must be the Gazwa-e Hind Missile 2


----------



## dott

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Must be the Gazwa-e Hind Missile 2



is ir manufactured by brasstracks and designed by zaid hamid???


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## Ignited Mind

Congratulations!


----------



## Tshering22

Albatross said:


> Thats true indians did hide the actual range as they dint wanna make a public uproar to get justifications for that range but all the defence pundits knows the range ..But its of no use against Pak as that could have been achieved by a mere 3000-4000 range missile but the point is Pak has not only the capability but has already made the required work to conduct a 9000 km plus missile but awaits approval from various levels from within and out of country to conduct that test as its forsure gonna ring siren bells in washington and israal leave alone delhi...



You guys really believe in boogeyman stories like that, don't you? There's nothing for us 8,000 Km away. Europe is not an enemy and neither has any reason or capacity to be today. Continental US is still miles away and again isn't our enemy yet. While capabilities can be maintained, our idea was to ensure all our present scenarios are covered. 

*Is there any proof other than some Chinese analysts predicting our range is higher?*

The 9K range missile will still not get you within continental US range. You do know what the repercussions would be don't you?




ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I hope so, but Pakistan should keep in low profile about the ICBMs, since Uncle Sam will try to cause more troubles to you guys if they discover that.



So would you tend to be worried if someone has a 9,000 Km range missile as it covers you as well. Let's see; who does Pakistan have 9,000 Km away to kill? It will maximum land in the North Atlantic even if Pakistan hypothetically uses it. Entire European continent isn't got anything against Pakistan.


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## itaskol

china exported (40-60) DF3A IRBM to saudis in the 1980's for 3 billion USD.
so today we can also export ICBM to Pakistan also if Pakistan needs . our relationship to Pakistan is better than to the Saudis.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

itaskol said:


> china exported (40-60) *DF3A IRBM* to saudis in the 1980's for 3 billion USD.
> so today we can also export ICBM to Pakistan also if Pakistan needs . our relationship to Pakistan is better than to the Saudis.



CSS - 2?.........


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## itaskol

Syama Ayas said:


> CSS - 2?.........


css-2 is DF3. what china exported to saudis was Df3 A (developed in 1981) with 3,000 km range (~4,000 km with reduced payload)

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## regular

JD_In said:


> great news....so US shud now stop d drone attacks...
> 
> strong asia!


No it won't workout right now cuz for that we need to have at least 100 ICBMz of 12000km+ range within our arsenalz. that punching force will be enough to force USA to get the hell out of our areas and the neighboring countries.....


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## rohailmalhi

Off topic :

For America to stop drone attack believe me when the bastards sitting in higher seat stop selling their daughters and mothers for money to USA (Sorry for using foul language). They will stop.

Can someone ask them how are they going to face Allah (S.W.T) with the blood of innocents on their hands .

Believe me u got one of the most corrupt Bureaucracy(from secetary to a low level cleaner) and gov .

*U dont need a damn missiles u need people who are honest and patriots* .

May Allah(S.W.T) protect Pakistan and protects its people.May Allah save us from these corrupt leaders.Ameen

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## regular

rohailmalhi said:


> Off topic :
> 
> For America to stop drone attack believe me when the bastards sitting in higher seat stop selling their daughters and mothers for money to USA (Sorry for using foul language). They will stop.
> 
> Can someone ask them how are they going to face Allah (S.W.T) with the blood of innocents on their hands .
> 
> Believe me u got one of the most corrupt Bureaucracy(from secetary to a low level cleaner) and gov .
> 
> *U dont need a damn missiles u need people who are honest and patriots* .
> 
> May Allah(S.W.T) protect Pakistan and protects its people.May Allah save us from these corrupt leaders.Ameen


I agree with U brothr we need p[atriotic pplz as well as weapons to protect and defend our country against the Western aggression.......just only the patriotic pplz are not enough.......we need resources too.......


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## IceCold

itaskol said:


> china exported (40-60) DF3A IRBM to saudis in the 1980's for 3 billion USD.
> so today we can also export ICBM to Pakistan also if Pakistan needs . our relationship to Pakistan is better than to the Saudis.



No China cannot export an ICBM to Pakistan no matter how close we are and that is because China is now a member of international treaties which prohibit it to export these weapon systems to non members. Back in the 80's China wasnt a member and hence no restrictions.


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## regular

IceCold said:


> No China cannot export an ICBM to Pakistan no matter how close we are and that is because China is now a member of international treaties which prohibit it to export these weapon systems to non members. Back in the 80's China wasnt a member and hence no restrictions.


Who cares about the international treaties...If US don't care why the China shold care.....might is always right my brother........


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## rohailmalhi

regular said:


> I agree with U brothr we need p[atriotic pplz as well as weapons to protect and defend our country against the Western aggression.......just only the patriotic pplz are not enough.......we need resources too.......



Yes i am not denying that. But both things should be run in parallel. 

Make ur economy go up and u will enough funds to start putting money in differnt defense projects.

Educate more and more people we are so full of talent all it is needed is a person who can direct us show us a direction.

Western aggression can be stopped put someone as US ambasedor who has the balls to speak not some corrupt person.(Haqqani)

A Govt who take care of Pakistan's intrest first.Army Chief who has not sold out his soul to Americans.

Kick all the people in the bureaucracy ,Army ,and govt who have sold themselves.Make a law to hang the one who betray Pakistan and its people.


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## Zarvan

itaskol said:


> china exported (40-60) DF3A IRBM to saudis in the 1980's for 3 billion USD.
> so today we can also export ICBM to Pakistan also if Pakistan needs . our relationship to Pakistan is better than to the Saudis.


As per latest information Saudi is also buying the Missile DF-21 and also another one with the range of 500 KM and Pakistan is now developing its own missiles in fact has developed them only have not shown to the world



IceCold said:


> No China cannot export an ICBM to Pakistan no matter how close we are and that is because China is now a member of international treaties which prohibit it to export these weapon systems to non members. Back in the 80's China wasnt a member and hence no restrictions.


Sir China has old history not following any treaty Sir for your information Sudan not cannot buy weapons but China has sold it Fighter planes after the ban was imposed by the whole world and other Tanks and other things too


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## IceCold

regular said:


> Who cares about the international treaties...If US don't care why the China shold care.....might is always right my brother........



You guys need to very careful while suggesting the dismissal of international treaties and yes China does care because of her growing power stature and because it needs to show to the world that it is indeed a responsible power.



Zarvan said:


> Sir China has old history not following any treaty Sir for your information Sudan not cannot buy weapons but China has sold it Fighter planes after the ban was imposed by the whole world and other Tanks and other things too



Selling fighter planes is not the same as selling an ICBM, you are comparing apples with oranges here. Please understand the difference. One is a conventional weapon while the other is a strategic one. A fighter plane does not effect the West but an ICBM certainly will.


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## S-A-B-E-R->

guys comon we r duscussing this from a source called terminal X that alone shatters its credibility second WE DO NOT NEED ICBMs we need ppl with Balls.

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## CorporateAffairs

Come on by Pak bro's, make dragons and godzillas piss in their pants 



itaskol said:


> china exported (40-60) DF3A IRBM to saudis in the 1980's for 3 billion USD.
> so today we can also export ICBM to Pakistan also if Pakistan needs . our relationship to Pakistan is better than to the Saudis.



More ICBMs in asia, the more ur cities are scrwed


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## itaskol

IceCold said:


> No China cannot export an ICBM to Pakistan no matter how close we are and that is because China is now a member of international treaties which prohibit it to export these weapon systems to non members. Back in the 80's China wasnt a member and hence no restrictions.


China,india and Pakistan are not members of HCOC till now.
HCoC
china does not export ICBM because we have to show the world that we are a responsible country.

it depends on if it really worth. at that time china sold IRBM to Saudis, because the Saudis can pay 3 billion USD. 
at that time china total foreign exchange reserve in USD was only around 3 billion (china has more than 3000 billion usd reserve today)
the saudis paid the same level of our total USD reserve at that time....

in my opinion if pakistan really want to have ICBM. better bring the saudis in the programm.


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## Rajaraja Chola

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I hope so, but Pakistan should keep in low profile about the ICBMs, since Uncle Sam will try to cause more troubles to you guys if they discover that.



CIA have more field agents in pakistan... If pakistan is even working on that technology, USA will know it and sanctions will start flowing.....


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## itaskol

beta said:


> That says it all. "We are hardly a responsible country but we would like the world to think of us as one and treat as one."
> The Chinese are great!


oh man, 134 countries are members of HCOC&#65292;
in asia lots of countries which have capability to build ballistic missile are not the member of HCOC
( china, india, pakistan. Iran&#65292; North korean.....)

and india also refuse to be a member of HCOC. India is not nobler than china...


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## Android

beta said:


> Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000 Kms
> 
> Yeah, China has IPBMs which have a range of 150 million kms
> US has IGBMs which have a range of 100 Billion kms
> Also, India is developing IGCBMs whose range is (pointless really) , which it hopes to induct into its forces by 2025
> 
> 
> IPBM - Inter-Planetary Ballistic Missile
> IGBM - Inter-Galactic Ballistic Missile
> IGCBM - Inter-Galaxy-Cluster Ballistic Missile


you forgot to mention this one
IUBM - Inter-Universe Ballistic Missile


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## mr.azeemtahir

I hope sanctions wont... just... fall through, like they usually... I mean, ALWAYS do.

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## regular

Voldemort said:


> you forgot to mention this one
> IUBM - Inter-Universe Ballistic Missile


Hey!Hey! We only got Inter-Indian ballistic Missiles and they are realli realli powerful in all, excellent to deter any future threat to our homeland.......

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## PakiRambo

Pakistan should never create a ICBM. Instead, we should keep neighboring countries like India at hostage.
If any country nukes Pakistan, they should know that Pakistan will retaliate by nuking India. Now are they willing to give that up?
Far better defense system & alternative rather than using the resources, money and possible risk of sanctions for developing an ICBM - which won't benefit us at all. 





P.s. I'm 1% serious

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## itaskol

PakiRambo said:


> Pakistan should never create a ICBM. Instead, we should keep neighboring countries like India at hostage.
> If any country nukes Pakistan, they should know that Pakistan will retaliate by nuking India. Now are they willing to give that up?
> Far better defense system & alternative rather than using the resources, money and possible risk of sanctions for developing an ICBM - which won't benefit us at all.
> P.s. I'm 1% serious



If any country nukes china, they should know that china will retaliate by nuking Russia.
P.s. I'm 50% serious


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## Zarvan

IceCold said:


> You guys need to very careful while suggesting the dismissal of international treaties and yes China does care because of her growing power stature and because it needs to show to the world that it is indeed a responsible power.
> 
> 
> 
> Selling fighter planes is not the same as selling an ICBM, you are comparing apples with oranges here. Please understand the difference. One is a conventional weapon while the other is a strategic one. A fighter plane does not effect the West but an ICBM certainly will.


Sir China has done this kind of thing many times and they are also doing it again and every one knows list of countries which China has give missiles which can harm west Sir china has old history of it

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## Rajputana

PakiRambo said:


> Pakistan should never create a ICBM. Instead, we should keep neighboring countries like India at hostage.
> If any country nukes Pakistan, they should know that Pakistan will retaliate by nuking India. Now are they willing to give that up?


 
Wow man you are a genius!!!!

I never knew anybody could come up with such a simple idea for committing national suicide!!! LMAO!!!


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## regular

Rajputana said:


> Wow man you are a genius!!!!
> 
> I never knew anybody could come up with such a simple idea for committing national suicide!!! LMAO!!!


Hey! U shold know that with such kind of corrupt ruling elites in our country and slaves of the US and West life is getting worst every day here nowadays. Hence its far better to get ready for the national suicide and we want our neighbors to have some share too . We don't want U guyz to suffer in this world afterwards.....


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## Malik Usman

Rajaraja Chola said:


> CIA have more field agents in pakistan... If pakistan is even working on that technology, USA will know it and sanctions will start flowing.....



Yes ..........as they were aware of Pakistani Nukes Test and Cruise Missiles Tests before.

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## illusion8

Let's play this stupid game...
1. If Pakistan is attacked it will nuke India.
2. If China is attacked it will Nuke Russia.
3. If Iran is attacked it will Nuke Israel.
4. If North Korea is attacked it will Nuke South Korea.
5 If Syria is attacked it will attack....


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## parkland

regular said:


> Hey! U shold know that with such kind of corrupt ruling elites in our country and slaves of the US and West life is getting worst every day here nowadays. Hence its far better to get ready for the national suicide and we want our neighbors to have some share too . We don't want U guyz to suffer in this world afterwards.....



u know that pakistan can come out of this menace, all u have to do is start economic engine.


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## illusion8

Malik Usman said:


> Yes ..........as they were aware of Pakistani Nukes Test and Cruise Missiles Tests before.



Yes they were and turned a blind eye.


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## al_asad_al_mulk

illusion8 said:


> Let's play this stupid game...
> 1. If Pakistan is attacked it will nuke India.
> 2. If China is attacked it will Nuke Russia.
> 3. If Iran is attacked it will Nuke Israel.
> 4. If North Korea is attacked it will Nuke South Korea.
> 5 If Syria is attacked it will attack....


 
the most stupid thing i ever read and for all Pakistan does not posses any ICBM, We already stop working on 3000+ kms missiles variouse political reasons if we develop israel & pakistan come face to face caz jews are most coward people on earth when they come to know pakistan can nuke them they try to destroy pakistan and USA dont want this so pakistan limitted to 2500+ missiles and more interestingly pakistan stop working on Shaheen 2 also...long time no test no induction


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## itaskol

illusion8 said:


> Let's play this stupid game...
> 1. If Pakistan is attacked it will nuke India.
> 2. If China is attacked it will Nuke Russia.
> 3. If Iran is attacked it will Nuke Israel.
> 4. If North Korea is attacked it will Nuke South Korea.
> 5 If Syria is attacked it will attack....



it is the so called chinese "nuclear binding theory" in the cold war. and it is not a serious "theory"
this "theory" can ONLY be used if USSR really had "death hand" system (automatically nuclear trigger) active , but after the cold war the death hand system is no more active.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_(nuclear_war)
"Dead Hand (Russian: &#1057;&#1080;&#1089;&#1090;&#1077;&#1084;&#1072; «&#1055;&#1077;&#1088;&#1080;&#1084;&#1077;&#1090;&#1088;», Systema "Perimetr")[1], known also as Perimeter,[2] is a Cold-War-era nuclear-control system used by the Soviet Union. General speculation from insiders allege that the system remains in use in post-Soviet Russia. An example of fail-deadly deterrence, it can automatically trigger the launch of the Russian ICBMs if a nuclear strike is detected by seismic, light, radioactivity and overpressure sensors. By most accounts, it is normally switched off and is supposed to be activated during dangerous crises only. However, it is said to remain fully functional and able to serve its purpose whenever needed""


nuclear binding policy
" a relatively weak national nuclear forces have been side by the nuclear forces of a nuclear-capable countries have more tied to one's own chariot. Its purpose is to prevent a nuclear war was stronger than one's own, it is difficult to fight against the third party side a nuclear attack on their own. China's "nuclear bundling" strategy of the basic idea is: to prevent the United States as the main object, to drop a nuclear binding Russia and other nuclear powers Britain and France on the way to prevent the United States China may launch a nuclear attack. Once the United States launched an all-nuclear attack on China, Russia and China will focus on nuclear weapons and other nuclear powers Britain and France to attack, and thus lead to a comprehensive nuclear war so that the whole world back to the Stone Age. .........


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## ziaulislam

Albatross said:


> Thats true indians did hide the actual range as they dint wanna make a public uproar to get justifications for that range but all the defence pundits knows the range ..But its of no use against Pak as that could have been achieved by a mere 3000-4000 range missile but the point is Pak has not only the capability but has already made the required work to conduct a 9000 km plus missile but awaits approval from various levels from within and out of country to conduct that test as its forsure gonna ring siren bells in washington and israal leave alone delhi...



india needs only 700 km missle to hit any part of pakistan. so no difference to us and practically we dont need long range missles


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## Rajaraja Chola

Malik Usman said:


> Yes ..........as they were aware of Pakistani Nukes Test and Cruise Missiles Tests before.



they were aware, but they kept quiet that time cos it suited them to kept quiet and u guys were helping them in afghanistan..
moreover time s not the same as be4...


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## PakiRambo

Rajputana said:


> Wow man you are a genius!!!!
> 
> I never knew anybody could come up with such a simple idea for committing national suicide!!! LMAO!!!



But seriously if Pakistan gets nuked, the first country we would suspect is India anyways.


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## The SC

I have heard ranges of up to 14 000 km, but someone somehow is shy about it.


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## IndoUS

PakiRambo said:


> But seriously if Pakistan gets nuked, the first country we would suspect is India anyways.



It pretty easy to tell when and which country will nuke someone, since the ICBM or BM has to go in space, and countries can track the launch. Plus a missile will have to travel over foreign airspace, so there will be news about it.


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## The SC

Malik Usman said:


> Yes ..........as they were aware of Pakistani Nukes Test and Cruise Missiles Tests before.



A military secret is a super top secret, so CIA or else won't be able to decipher it.
How many foreign agents are they in the USA, and do not get me wrong, even in Israel, the so called and wannabe Intelligence genius.



illusion8 said:


> Let's play this stupid game...
> 1. If Pakistan is attacked it will nuke India.
> 2. If China is attacked it will Nuke Russia.
> 3. If Iran is attacked it will Nuke Israel.
> 4. If North Korea is attacked it will Nuke South Korea.
> 5 If Syria is attacked it will attack....



The only ones who are not attacked in this process are the western countries.


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## trojan13

Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres 



cant stop laughing

this is my 1st post


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## regular

trojan13 said:


> Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres
> 
> 
> 
> cant stop laughing
> 
> this is my 1st post


I guess U didn't find any other forum for fun.....Hey We are sure that our Missiles will definitely fall all over India whereever we want them to so no place to hide dude.....

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## RazorMC

Do we have the money to support such an ambitious program like ICBMs ??
Shouldn't we focus more on education and law/order ?


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## T-Rex

RazorMC said:


> Do we have the money to support such an ambitious program like ICBMs ??
> Shouldn't we focus more on education and law/order ?



*In that case what's the point of testing missiles with a range of only 250-750 km? Isn't that a waste of money? strangely people like you remain silent when those tests are done. That tells that the economy or the law and order is just hogwash. The real intention is to keep your masters out of range.*


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## RazorMC

T-Rex said:


> In that case what's the point of testing missiles with a range of only 250-750 km? Isn't that a waste of money? strangely people like you remain silent when those tests are done. That tells that the economy or the law and order is just hogwash. The real intention is to keep your masters out of range.



Wow. Someone's testy today.

I don't need to explain myself to some over-excited member but once you come out of your own fabricated world, you will realize that education is not hogwash, but a necessity in the modern world and a crucial component for Pakistan's progress.

I thank people like you for turning threads into a ranting ceremony.

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## T-Rex

RazorMC said:


> Wow. Someone's testy today.
> 
> I don't need to explain myself to some over-excited member but once you come out of your own fabricated world, you will realize that education is not hogwash, but a necessity in the modern world and a crucial component for Pakistan's progress.
> 
> I thank people like you for turning threads into a ranting ceremony.





*There's not much you can explain for I've done the explaining. All you can do is 'wow' and sing your masters tune.*


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## Zarvan

RazorMC said:


> Do we have the money to support such an ambitious program like ICBMs ??
> Shouldn't we focus more on education and law/order ?


Sir first we have money at least for our Nuclear Program and as far as ICBMS are concerned Sir most probably they are already developed the only question is to when to show them to the world

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## alimobin memon

Zarvan said:


> Sir first we have money at least for our Nuclear Program and as far as ICBMS are concerned Sir most probably they are already developed the only question is to when to show them to the world



you are right !! 
Nuclear program is funded by different sources and if we test ICBM'S there will be embargoes and rain of ban's !!

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## RazorMC

Zarvan said:


> Sir first we have money at least for our Nuclear Program and as far as ICBMS are concerned Sir most probably they are already developed the only question is to when to show them to the world


 
Nuclear weapons are different because they are an absolute necessity for our defence. We should continue working to expand the program further.

But by developing ICBMs, we are going to make a lot of countries nervous because we'll be putting them within our striking range.

And I don't think we have that kind of technology yet. It'll take time.

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## regular

ProudBeingIndian said:


> I think pakistan has 25000KM range ICBMs
> 
> They already have 100 5th gen fighter aircraft
> 
> and 1000s of megaton nuclear warheads


Yes! I guess U are right . Just we need to test them only ......


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## Cool_Soldier

Why smoke is rising from east


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## pakfoj

9000km is a bit of exaggeration but actually I wouldn't be surprised. looking at the past history of Pakistan's armed forces, it is no surprise that they like to keep everything under cover. Pakistan already had a nuclear device in 1984 but tested it in 1998 only when it was needed to. and again I wouldn't be surprised if Pakistan has dozens of other "secret" weapons and their capabilities.


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## India defense

Cool_Soldier said:


> Why smoke is rising from east



Smoke is rising from east..because their factories are not shut down

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## lem34

India defense said:


> Smoke is rising from east..because their factories are not shut down



well why is economy suffering?


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## manofwar

pakfoj said:


> 9000km is a bit of exaggeration but actually I wouldn't be surprised. looking at the past history of Pakistan's armed forces, it is no surprise that they like to keep everything under cover. Pakistan already had a nuclear device in 1984 but tested it in 1998 only when it was needed to. and again I wouldn't be surprised if Pakistan has dozens of other "secret" weapons and their capabilities.


That was a total 35 kt test that Pakistan was confirmed to be working on for 20 years!!!!
A 4000 kms missile I can understand, but 9000 kms, from 2500 kms is a total exaggeration!!!!!
and there was no Pakistani nuclear test in 1984, it was a chinese cold test that Pakistan's scientists were invited to study.........
This information is confirmed as it was around the same time that CIA-RAW began joint missions in Tibet for info on Chinese nukes. The partnership however fell through due to unstable political scene in India, around 1985 to 1998 ............


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## pakfoj

manofwar said:


> That was a total 35 kt test that Pakistan was confirmed to be working on for 20 years!!!!
> A 4000 kms missile I can understand, but 9000 kms, from 2500 kms is a total exaggeration!!!!!
> and there was no Pakistani nuclear test in 1984, it was a chinese cold test that Pakistan's scientists were invited to study.........
> This information is confirmed as it was around the same time that CIA-RAW began joint missions in Tibet for info on Chinese nukes. The partnership however fell through due to unstable political scene in India, around 1985 to 1998 ............



Well first of all it doesn't matter where You get the nuclear technology. the only country to "invent" nuclear bomb was US and the rest of countries eventually got it. India got help from Russia, and Pakistan from china. All is fair in love and war! Same goes with other technology that is reverse engineered (fighter jets, naval vessels, avionics, etc.) in fact it is very difficult to reverse engineer and its very effective. and if Pakistani scientists only tested a nuclear device that was already tested in china, dont you think they can do the same with missiles?! but yes i do think 9000km is a total exaggeration and the shaheen with the range of 2500km is also not true. this is what the army likes to say but the actual range of shaheen is definitely more than 2500km.


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## Slayer786

Well it makes sense, if Pakistan tests an ICBM now, then the West would be really scared and make Pakistan enemy no. 1. Lets wait for the time to test it.


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## regular

Slayer786 said:


> Well it makes sense, if Pakistan tests an ICBM now, then the West would be really scared and make Pakistan enemy no. 1. Lets wait for the time to test it.


They already Pakistan defined as their enemy no1 behind the scenes, no matter we test ICBMs or not........


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## Hulk

The only country that can make ICBM without testing it.

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## The Deterrent

indianrabbit said:


> The only country that can make ICBM without testing it.



Fail Sarcasm  you gotta make it first to test it 

This 9000+km crap is hollow propaganda.


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## Johny D

9k+ is probably the range Pak would achieve after combining the rage of all its missiles in operation...lol

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## Matrixx

Aryan_B said:


> well why is economy suffering?


Check your economy and Indian economy...you will know whose economy is suffering?



Your Nemesis said:


> Why does Pak needs ICBM, against whome??
> Well Ind does need it keeping in mind its geo-political interest and its mighty neighbour which we do trust but also remember the history and current conflict.


They want to shoot US


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## atulya

bro for just saying we can also say that we have anti satellite weapon . will you believe


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## Mav3rick

atulya said:


> bro for just saying we can also say that we have anti satellite weapon . will you believe


 
Why not?????


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## T-Rex

Your Nemesis said:


> Why does Pak needs ICBM, against whome??
> Well Ind does need it keeping in mind its geo-political interest and its mighty neighbour which we do trust but also remember the history and current conflict.


 
*
The US and its stooges need every type of weapons and others don't, right? Now, go fvck yourself!*

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## regular

atulya said:


> bro for just saying we can also say that we have anti satellite weapon . will you believe


Yes! I will believe U, why not .....don't U know U are here in the dream world forum and everything is possible here......


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## ramu

Zarvan said:


> Sir first we have money at least for our Nuclear Program and as far as ICBMS are concerned Sir most probably they are already developed the only question is to when to show them to the world



If Pakistan had 9000 KM ICBM or ICBM with 5000 KM range at-least then launching satellites would be very easy. Why is Pakistan not showing its capability in space technology and satellite launch systems ?

The above question is for anyone who believe Pakistan has an ICBM.

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## dearone4u_22

ramu said:


> If Pakistan had 9000 KM ICBM or ICBM with 5000 KM range at-least then launching satellites would be very easy. *Why is Pakistan not showing its capability in space technology and satellite launch systems ?*
> 
> The above question is for anyone who believe Pakistan has an ICBM.



Coz China doesn't want to lose that mkt...If you know what i mean


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## Mav3rick

ramu said:


> If Pakistan had 9000 KM ICBM or ICBM with 5000 KM range at-least then launching satellites would be very easy. Why is Pakistan not showing its capability in space technology and satellite launch systems ?
> 
> The above question is for anyone who believe Pakistan has an ICBM.



Concern of financial sanctions?


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## ramu

Mav3rick said:


> Concern of financial sanctions?



Nobody owns space and Pakistan cannot trade its development for fear of financial sanctions.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

we just need to scale up our designs thats all


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## SamranAli

JD_In said:


> 9k+ is probably the range Pak would achieve after combining the rage of all its missiles in operation...lol


 
Childish post.


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## Tehmasib

what about tipu....is this ICBM???


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## Hulk

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> we just need to scale up our designs thats all



Yes and that is just a piece of cake.


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## ProudBeingIndian

ya this is what i intended to mean.Did they understand??


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## abhishekgoel80

In my area there is a saying that "_Chaudhary ke ghar roti na ho par banduk jaroor hog_i". The Chaudhary may not have bread to eat but will definitely keep a gun. In past it may be justified also as the gun was used to loot the traders mostly banias and passer bys. This mentality is destructive(or predatory) stopping own progress as well as the others who are the target has to raise their defences.

Seem the Asia (especially India, Pakistan and North korea) are still under the Chaudhary mentality, here the people applaud missile test. We want to buy tank, air craft carriers, missile submarines without actually knowing are they effective or not. In the today world I seriously thinks the tanks and carriers are sitting ducks but we still we are spending tax payer money.

Our most of the institutions are corrupt and acting as leach and tapeworms for their own gains. Some have become cancer, one of my close relative went to the government lab; He observed they were getting crores of funding for developing technologies related to defence which in essence has nothing to do with it. These personnel were interested in their own publications that too without any strategic thinking. *Our countries are not able to stop brain drain and a lot of brain has been put in the drains.*

On this forum people are giving examples of Kuwait who had the highest per capita at the time. These Asian countries are not even in the top 100, so unless they are planning to usurp others wealth it don't make sense. Who will loot a beggar but for another beggar? Their defence spending is way to much above whats required and that is on the cost of their respective population, but then we all are Chaudhary, isn't it?

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## solkahn

You mean to say bagal mein churri aur moon pey RAAM RAA
HAH another ******** time waster


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## manofwar

solkahn said:


> You mean to say bagal mein churri aur moon pey RAAM RAA
> HAH another ******** time waster


Couldn't make head or tail of what you were trying to say
All of us here know English feel free to use it.....



T-Rex said:


> *
> The US and its stooges need every type of weapons and others don't, right? Now, go fvck yourself!*


You can hardly classifiy Russia and China USA's stooges, yet they are allowed to have nukes by International treaty.....
Anyways weapon development is done according to threat perception and the scale and the range of interests.


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## Cool_Soldier

No need to discuss,when time comes, thing will come out according to our needs as we did on 28th may 1998.


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## Matrixx

You may have 90000+ km ICBM but ....What is the use of all these...if you cant shoot down single US drone which are killing you every day

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## IndianTiger

many misconceptions amongst Pakistani members.


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## Don Jaguar

Matrixx said:


> You may have 90000+ km ICBM but ....What is the use of all these...if you cant shoot down single US drone which are killing you every day



Just a matter of regime.


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## FireFighter

whythiskolaveridi said:


> 9000 km range ICBM?? India is within 5000 km of range. Are they now targeting Chinese cities? Poor Chinese...forgive them for they don't know what monster they are creating. US already realized it.


Common sense has left you it seems. Chinese have nothing to lose but to gain out of this trade with Pak that allows them access to warm waters and oil. 

The only monster that has become is India, the bear of Asia, which cannot move on its own without foreign military assistance and trade of its masters.


----------



## FireFighter

abhishekgoel80 said:


> In my area there is a saying that "_Chaudhary ke ghar roti na ho par banduk jaroor hog_i". The Chaudhary may not have bread to eat but will definitely keep a gun. In past it may be justified also as the gun was used to loot the traders mostly banias and passer bys. This mentality is destructive(or predatory) stopping own progress as well as the others who are the target has to raise their defences.
> 
> Seem the Asia (especially India, Pakistan and North korea) are still under the Chaudhary mentality, here the people applaud missile test. We want to buy tank, air craft carriers, missile submarines without actually knowing are they effective or not. In the today world I seriously thinks the tanks and carriers are sitting ducks but we still we are spending tax payer money.
> 
> Our most of the institutions are corrupt and acting as leach and tapeworms for their own gains. Some have become cancer, one of my close relative went to the government lab; He observed they were getting crores of funding for developing technologies related to defence which in essence has nothing to do with it. These personnel were interested in their own publications that too without any strategic thinking. *Our countries are not able to stop brain drain and a lot of brain has been put in the drains.*
> 
> On this forum people are giving examples of Kuwait who had the highest per capita at the time. These Asian countries are not even in the top 100, so unless they are planning to usurp others wealth it don't make sense. Who will loot a beggar but for another beggar? Their defence spending is way to much above whats required and that is on the cost of their respective population, but then we all are Chaudhary, isn't it?




The chaudharys need the guns to protect their lands from vile humans and animals. The lands that gives him crops for the survival of his community. 

Who knows what the greedy traders would do to the chaudhry's if he didn't have the gun; probably would force him out of his land and take over his wealth. 

Because the baniya lives and dies for wealth, whereas the chaudhry wants to live for honour, respect and independence. 

Kuwait didn`t have guns to protect itself and Look what Saddam did to Kuwait over night.


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## Hyperion

15 pages of talk, regarding a hypothetical weapon... wow!

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## Safriz

Hyperion said:


> 15 pages of talk, regarding a hypothetical weapon... wow!


 
A 1950 technology cannot be that difficult to build for a country like pakistan..
Not hypothetical.....plausible....


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## karan21

Safriz said:


> A 1950 technology cannot be that difficult to build for a country like pakistan..
> Not hypothetical.....plausible....



pakistan can certainly build it, no doubt. but the problem is that why?? and yes pakistan certainly cant build a 21 century missile. that requires a ring gyro scope and tr modules, composite material and reentry and much more. pakistan neither has that good engineers nor the level of labs and industry to manufacture that. 

i will advice pakistanis get serious on ur space vehicle and once pakistan masters space rockets, long range missiles will be easy stuff for u guys. but again the question is why???


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

FireFighter said:


> Common sense has left you it seems. Chinese have nothing to lose but to gain out of this trade with Pak that allows them access to warm waters and oil.
> 
> The only monster that has become is India, the bear of Asia, which cannot move on its own without foreign military assistance and trade of its masters.



Well, 4000km or 12000km is all same for China, but a huge difference for USA.


----------



## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> A 1950 technology cannot be that difficult to build for a country like pakistan..
> Not hypothetical.....plausible....


Let's not get into it and open a can of worms. If you had basic engineering knowledge you wouldn't bring this up. Besides, Indian leap in this particular technology is not solely entirely their own. They've had astronomical help from others: Any challenger on that, I'm game!



karan21 said:


> pakistan can certainly build it, no doubt. but the problem is that why?? and yes pakistan certainly cant build a 21 century missile. that requires a ring gyro scope and tr modules, composite material and reentry and much more. pakistan neither has that good engineers nor the level of labs and industry to manufacture that.
> 
> i will advice pakistanis get serious on ur space vehicle and once pakistan masters space rockets, long range missiles will be easy stuff for u guys. but again the question is why???


Oh please, do not have that higher than god attitude, and bring our engineers / physicists into it. Regarding ancillary industries, normally they are build around the military requirements.

What do you know of laser-ring-gyros or composite materials / steels / orbital engines. etc etc... comment only when, you yourself are well acquainted with the subject.

More to the point: It is infeasible to build an ICBM at the moment. It's all about economics ....


----------



## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Let's not get into it and open a can of worms. If you had basic engineering knowledge you wouldn't bring this up. Besides, Indian leap in this particular technology is not solely entirely their own. They've had astronomical help from others: Any challenger on that, I'm game!



yes we did, i agree. so did china and even america. but unlike pk and nk which simply got fully built missiles and parts ready to use. india and china had to learn and then build and advance missiles on their own. 

rememeber indian space program predates indian missile program. india built space rockets and then moved on to missiles using similiar tech. we mastered reentry tech on our own and have sre and sre 2 missions. now according to indian scientists india can build a 12000 km missile in 2 yrs whenever govt wants because we have all the building blocks. 

all keep in mind that all the rocket engines, ring gyro scopes and tr modules, heat sheilds and electronics are manufactured by indian private industry and not imported.

[


Hyperion said:


> Oh please, do not have that higher than god attitude, and bring our engineers / physicists into it. Regarding ancillary industries, normally they are build around the military requirements.
> 
> What do you know of laser-ring-gyros or composite materials / steels / orbital engines. etc etc... comment only when, you yourself are well acquainted with the subject.
> 
> More to the point: It is infeasible to build an ICBM at the moment. It's all about economics ....



dude do u really believe that paksitan has industry to build all these electronics of 21 century? which provate company in pakistan can do that??? which rocket engine has been ever built by pakistan?? why is that pakistan has been operating missiles since 1990s but still is uable to launch sats while iran was able to do it?? 

the ans is simple, pakistan doesnt know how to advance its missiles bcoz it didnt create the industry at the right time. shahhen 3 and ghauri 3 are in development for decades.


----------



## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> yes we did, i agree. so did china and even america. but unlike pk and nk which simply got fully built missiles and parts ready to use. india and china had to learn and then build and advance missiles on their own.
> 
> rememeber indian space program predates indian missile program. india built space rockets and then moved on to missiles using similiar tech. we mastered reentry tech on our own and have sre and sre 2 missions. now according to indian scientists india can build a 12000 km missile in 2 yrs whenever govt wants because we have all the building blocks.
> 
> all keep in mind that all the rocket engines, ring gyro scopes and tr modules, heat sheilds and electronics are manufactured by indian private industry and not imported.


Whatever I said, you repeated exactly.

By the way, regarding many steps that are necessary can be skipped, from 1950's to 1990's the computing power was not where it is today. For example, 3 vectored de-orbiting procedures / guidance / initial vehicle design can all be easily calculated and simulated to an accuracy never possible before.

Therefore, it's not entirely necessary to go 1.2.3.4.5.6 we can go 1.2.3.6.... Though one of the toughest challenges that we face today have more to do with verification equipment. (which are embargoed for us, however, not for you) so we have to take very small careful steps and check and verify everything 4 to 5 times.

There is no such thing that if there is a requirement for it, and we can not build it within 5 - 6 months... Though a successful deterrent will take much longer than that.



karan21 said:


> dude do u really believe that paksitan has industry to build all these electronics of 21 century? which provate company in pakistan can do that??? which rocket engine has been ever built by pakistan?? why is that pakistan has been operating missiles since 1990s but still is uable to launch sats while iran was able to do it??
> the ans is simple, pakistan doesnt know how to advance its missiles bcoz it didnt create the industry at the right time. shahhen 3 and ghauri 3 are in development for decades.


Just takes 5 people to do whatever you mentioned... There are no such 'godly' specialized parts required... You're over-complicating it mate. 

Most of it is the 'art' of integrating physics with explosives 

By the way Karan, regarding Iran: There is no specialization required to shoot something in space. The trick is bringing it back to earth  If we were asked to shoot something into space only, we could have sent all of Tehran into space

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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Whatever I said, you repeated exactly.
> 
> By the way, regarding many steps that are necessary can be skipped, from 1950's to 1990's the computing power was not where it is today. For example, 3 vectored de-orbiting procedures / guidance / initial vehicle design can all be easily calculated and simulated to an accuracy never possible before.
> 
> Therefore, it's not entirely necessary to go 1.2.3.4.5.6 we can go 1.2.3.6.... Though one of the toughest challenges that we face today have more to do with verification equipment. (which are embargoed for us, however, not for you) so we have to take very small careful steps and check and verify everything 4 to 5 times.
> 
> There is no such thing that if there is a requirement for it, and we can not build it within 5 - 6 months... Though a successful deterrent will take much longer than that.



well thanks for a good reply. 
i dont care about further pakistani missiles, bcoz currenty pakistani missile can nuke india all over. similarty pak doesnt care about agni 5, 6 or k5. india is building them for global presence not asian. just to let u know india was under embargo till 2009, assholle america lifted embargo when they saw that india has already masterd all missile techs and now the sanctions are useless. they do that for every country except china. 

anyways i think now its time to convert these missiles into space rockets, all u have to do is modify the top most stage of the missile. i sometimes wonder that as soon as irran built missiles they converted it into slv in no time why pakistan couldnt?? can u answer my question?? plz give a straight forward answer. 

the only reason i can think off that pakistan didnt create sufficient industry and r&d and electronics industry to be able to do that and almost all parts of missiles are imported. otherwise there should be no reason why pakistan cant even modify its own missiles?? and it doesnt cost billions to do that, maybe just a few millions.

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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> well thanks for a good reply.
> i dont care about further pakistani missiles, bcoz currenty pakistani missile can nuke india all over. similarty pak doesnt care about agni 5, 6 or k5. india is building them for global presence not asian. just to let u know india was under embargo till 2009, assholle america lifted embargo when they saw that india has already masterd all missile techs and now the sanctions are useless. they do that for every country except china.
> 
> anyways i think now its time to convert these missiles into space rockets, all u have to do is modify the top most stage of the missile. i sometimes wonder that as soon as irran built missiles they converted it into slv in no time why pakistan couldnt?? can u answer my question?? plz give a straight forward answer.
> 
> the only reason i can think off that pakistan didnt create sufficient industry and r&d and electronics industry to be able to do that and almost all parts of missiles are imported. otherwise there should be no reason why pakistan cant even modify its own missiles??


By the way I hate missiles  I would like us to develop SLV, GSLV's.... (cryogenic and ion pulse engines)..... We have enough nukes to be a deterrent to each other... trust me no one is going to get into a fight!..... Though, I hate it when some mundane test equipment are denied to us on the basis of religion.... no matter what you want to call it... that is what it is....

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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Just takes 5 people to do whatever you mentioned... There are no such 'godly' specialized parts required... You're over-complicating it mate.
> 
> Most of it is the 'art' of integrating physics with explosives
> 
> By the way Karan, regarding Iran: There is no specialization required to shoot something in space. The trick is bringing it back to earth  If we were asked to shoot something into space only, we could have sent all of Tehran into space



 it takes a full team and dedicated scientists with years of experice to do that. this is the video of my unis rocketery team which i am a part of. its university of waterloo. its a small rocket but its so complex, it will blow ur mind. all top mechanical engineers and scientists came together with proper funding to build this. we r soon launching sensors into space using our rocket. 
University of Waterloo Rocketry Team


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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> well thanks for a good reply.
> i dont care about further pakistani missiles, bcoz currenty pakistani missile can nuke india all over. similarty pak doesnt care about agni 5, 6 or k5. india is building them for global presence not asian. just to let u know india was under embargo till 2009, assholle america lifted embargo when they saw that india has already masterd all missile techs and now the sanctions are useless. they do that for every country except china.
> 
> anyways i think now its time to convert these missiles into space rockets, all u have to do is modify the top most stage of the missile. i sometimes wonder that as soon as irran built missiles they converted it into slv in no time why pakistan couldnt?? can u answer my question?? plz give a straight forward answer.
> 
> the only reason i can think off that pakistan didnt create sufficient industry and r&d and electronics industry to be able to do that and almost all parts of missiles are imported. otherwise there should be no reason why pakistan cant even modify its own missiles?? and it doesnt cost billions to do that, maybe just a few millions.


Buddy Iranian missiles are nothing more than 'sounding rockets' and their nuclear program nothing more than one of our 'test labs' at university level. Forget them.

You / Us / Chinese are a different breed altogether. Don't confuse any one of us with lower-life forms! That's why the west shits in their pants, it's not what we are that scares them, it is what we have the potential to be!


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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> By the way I hate missiles  I would like us to develop SLV, GSLV's.... (cryogenic and ion pulse engines)..... We have enough nukes to be a deterrent to each other... trust me no one is going to get into a fight!..... Though, I hate it when some mundane test equipment are denied to us on the basis of religion.... no matter what you want to call it... that is what it is....



thats exactly who is stopping pak from building a slv, why killing time, why pak doesnt take the bold step? testing 4 missiles a year wont bring pride to nation anymore, launching an indegeneous sat will.


----------



## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> it takes a full team and dedicated scientists with years of experice to do that. this is the video of my unis rocketery team which i am a part of. its university of waterloo. its a small rocket but its so complex, it will blow ur mind. all top mechanical engineers and scientists came together with proper funding to build this. we r soon launching sensors into space using our rocket.
> University of Waterloo Rocketry Team


That's university level isn't it? Now think you have access to 200,000+ PhD's + black funding


----------



## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Buddy Iranian missiles are nothing more than 'sounding rockets' and their nuclear program nothing more than one of our 'test labs' at university level. Forget them.
> 
> You / Us / Chinese are a different breed altogether. Don't confuse any one of us with lower-life forms! That's why the west shits in their pants, it's not what we are that scares them, it is what we have the potential to be!



since the iranians have mastered the upper stage of slvs they can now build much bigger rockets. dont forget they can easily get cryogenic engine designs from russia for a few billion dolls, they prolly already are getting them.


----------



## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> thats exactly who is stopping pak from building a slv, why killing time, why pak doesnt take the bold step? testing 4 missiles a year wont bring pride to nation anymore, launching an indegeneous sat will.


If we develop a cryogenic engine (the last step) for a GSLV, or a PSLV with thrust vectoring / correction. Guess who will come knocking on our doors, day one? With some silly excuse that the world is in grave danger 



karan21 said:


> since the iranians have mastered the upper stage of slvs they can now build much bigger rockets. dont forget they can easily get cryogenic engine designs from russia for a few billion dolls, they prolly already are getting them.


Nahhhh..... Still long way to go.... Metallurgy.... Physics.... Telemetry..... Repackaging.... 20 more years


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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> That's university level isn't it? Now think you have access to 200,000+ PhD's + black funding



well anyways i hope pakistan soon launches sats into space so we can atlest collaborate. it will send a message to the world that finally pak has decided to use missiles for peace and common man.

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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> well anyways i hope pakistan soon launches sats into space so we can atlest collaborate. it will send a message to the world that finally pak has decided to use missiles for peace and common man.


Regarding scientists, any idea how many Pakistanis at JPL  My dad worked there for 10 years, he's long retired now!


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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> If we develop a cryogenic engine (the last step) for a GSLV, or a PSLV with thrust vectoring / correction. Guess who will come knocking on our doors, day one? With some silly excuse that the world is in grave danger
> 
> 
> Nahhhh..... Still long way to go.... Metallurgy.... Physics.... Telemetry..... Repackaging.... 20 more years



yeah but they way ther are progressing, they can squeze 20 to maybe 8-10. oil prices are going up iran is earning billions. they have no shortage of money.



Hyperion said:


> Regarding scientists, any idea how many Pakistanis at JPL  My dad worked there for 10 years, he's long retired now!



whats jpl?


----------



## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> yeah but they way ther are progressing, they can squeze 20 to maybe 8-10. oil prices are going up iran is earning billions. they have no shortage of money.


I don't question their resources, I question their intellect  Well, I maybe a racist pig


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## Icewolf

karan21 said:


> well thanks for a good reply.
> i dont care about further pakistani missiles, bcoz currenty pakistani missile can nuke india all over. similarty pak doesnt care about agni 5, 6 or k5. india is building them for global presence not asian. just to let u know india was under embargo till 2009, assholle america lifted embargo when they saw that india has already masterd all missile techs and now the sanctions are useless. they do that for every country except china.
> 
> anyways i think now its time to convert these missiles into space rockets, all u have to do is modify the top most stage of the missile. i sometimes wonder that as soon as irran built missiles they converted it into slv in no time why pakistan couldnt?? can u answer my question?? plz give a straight forward answer.
> 
> the only reason i can think off that pakistan didnt create sufficient industry and r&d and electronics industry to be able to do that and almost all parts of missiles are imported. otherwise there should be no reason why pakistan cant even modify its own missiles?? and it doesnt cost billions to do that, maybe just a few millions.



Iran doesn't even have indigenous missile, *MOD EDIT* There has to be another explanation, also that SUPARCO doesn't get a lot of funds.


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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> whats jpl?


NASA - Jet Propulsion Laboratories.



Icewolf said:


> Iran doesn't even have indigenous missile, you idiot. There has to be another explanation, also that SUPARCO doesn't get a lot of funds.


No need to be rude.. He knows what he is talking about.


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## karan21

Icewolf said:


> Iran doesn't even have indigenous missile, you idiot. There has to be another explanation, also that SUPARCO doesn't get a lot of funds.


 


Hyperion said:


> NASA - Jet Propulsion Laboratories.
> 
> 
> No need to be rude.. He knows what he is talking about.



ohh i have no clue about how many scientists work at jpl, but there are many scientists here at my university who r proud pakistanis.



Icewolf said:


> Iran doesn't even have indigenous missile, you idiot. There has to be another explanation, also that SUPARCO doesn't get a lot of funds.



i dont care as long as they were smart enough to modify their missiles to create a working slv.


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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> ohh i have no clue about how many scientists work at jpl, but there are many scientists here at my university who r proud pakistanis.
> 
> 
> 
> i dont care as long as they were smart enough to modify their missiles to create a working slv.


Lots of talent mate... They don't pay enough in Pakistan  But if ever, push comes to shove 

Additionally, on the other hand, you guys are much more nationalistic than us. I have seen my colleagues after finishing schools such as INSEAD, going back home to help better India!


----------



## Icewolf

karan21 said:


> well thanks for a good reply.
> i dont care about further pakistani missiles, bcoz currenty pakistani missile can nuke india all over. similarty pak doesnt care about agni 5, 6 or k5. india is building them for global presence not asian. just to let u know india was under embargo till 2009, assholle america lifted embargo when they saw that india has already masterd all missile techs and now the sanctions are useless. they do that for every country except china.
> 
> anyways i think now its time to convert these missiles into space rockets, all u have to do is modify the top most stage of the missile. i sometimes wonder that as soon as irran built missiles they converted it into slv in no time why pakistan couldnt?? can u answer my question?? plz give a straight forward answer.
> 
> the only reason i can think off that pakistan didnt create sufficient industry and r&d and electronics industry to be able to do that and almost all parts of missiles are imported. otherwise there should be no reason why pakistan cant even modify its own missiles?? and it doesnt cost billions to do that, maybe just a few millions.



Iran doesn't even have indigenous missile, you idiot. There has to be another explanation, also that SUPARCO doesn't get a lot of funds.


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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Lots of talent mate... They don't pay enough in Pakistan  But if ever, push comes to shove
> 
> Additionally, on the other hand, you guys are much more nationalistic than us. I have seen my colleagues after finishing schools such as INSEAD, going back home to help better India!



i am currently doing engineering, why wont i go back to india when india is building this beast(15000 kg to leo orbit ):











almost ready


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## Hyperion

karan21 said:


> i am currently doing engineering, why wont i go back to india when india is building this beast(15000 kg to leo orbit ):


Not yet..... You gotta do at least PhD if you want to get into research. Besides take my advice - no need - make money and get a comfortable life

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## karan21

Hyperion said:


> Not yet..... You gotta do at least PhD if you want to get into research. Besides take my advice - no need - make money and get a comfortable life



loll nation first rest after :p
anyways i dont understand why pakistan doestn keep gradually improoving its capabilities and build much massive rockets. if pakistan doesnt it will lag being in telecommunications, disaster management, weather and gps capabilities. ever successfull nation needs these thing.

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## regular

I dk the thread is related to 9000Km+ range Pakistans Rockets and ICBMs and here I'm seeing Indians space sattelites and their rockets stories....I didnot even see any ICBM pakistan have or such rocket under discussion.Looks like this is another daydreaming thread too.......


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## The Deterrent

regular said:


> I dk the thread is related to 9000Km+ range Pakistans Rockets and ICBMs and here I'm seeing Indians space sattelites and their rockets stories....I didnot even see any ICBM pakistan have or such rocket under discussion.Looks like this is another daydreaming thread too.......



Of course this is a daydreaming thread!


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## xyxmt

Tamizhan said:


> And happened after that ?
> 
> Do you know where ISRO and SUPARCO stand now ?



I think SUPARCO reversed their knowhow about it and totally forgot how to do it, they erased memories megnatically, white washed so they can never do it again.

or maybe you didnt read well, we have done it and it doesnt prove anything to do it again, will do it when needed



joekrish said:


> We would not have any problems at all if Pakistan tests its ICBM, just like Agni 5 is not Pak oriented we know the ICBM's PAK would test would not be India specific, please go ahead and test it when you think the time is right and can handle international pressure.



What makes you think we are worried if you have any problem...lol


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## Alchemy

The higher the range of a Pakistani missile especially beyond 3500 KM the better it is for India , good luck for Pak for all its ICBM programs


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## alok mishra

i don't think so that china will ever give pakistan to any ICBM because after this pakistan will become major threat for china. China already provided enough missiles to pakistan to fulfill their goal, So why to waste more money.


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## Xracer

alok mishra said:


> i don't think so that china will ever give pakistan to any ICBM because after this pakistan will become major threat for china. China already provided enough missiles to pakistan to fulfill their goal, So why to waste more money.


just wait and watch


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## TOPGUN

A.Rafey & Trolla-lala both control your selves this isn't the playgirl channel ... if you want to compare each others toys then meet up and do it side by side no need to destory the thread stick to the topic plzz thx .... As per the topic let's just say Pak army has some wonders for peoples eyes in the near future no reason to hate.

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## T-Rex

alok mishra said:


> i don't think so that china will ever give pakistan to any ICBM because after this pakistan will become major threat for china. China already provided enough missiles to pakistan to fulfill their goal, So why to waste more money.



*China doesn't need to supply ICBMs to Pakistan because she handed over the basic technology long time ago. It's Pakistan's decision whether to build one or not. I personally believe that uncle sam and its minions in Pakistan will never allow Pakistan to build ICBMs.*

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

alok mishra said:


> i don't think so that china will ever give pakistan to any ICBM because after this pakistan will become major threat for china. China already provided enough missiles to pakistan to fulfill their goal, So why to waste more money.


ohooooooooo sorry buddy , china didn't act on your advice .............

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## regular

alok mishra said:


> i don't think so that china will ever give pakistan to any ICBM because after this pakistan will become major threat for china. China already provided enough missiles to pakistan to fulfill their goal, So why to waste more money.


Why China won't gives ICBMS to Pakistan???? 
Listen Pal . China and Pakistan are brothers and will stand for each other no matter what.U can't separate them...........umm........


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## A.Rafay

regular said:


> Why China won't gives ICBMS to Pakistan????
> Listen Pal . China and Pakistan are brothers and will stand for each other no matter what.U can't separate them...........umm........



Neither China Will give nor pak will Ask, PAKISTAN Will make Its own ICBMs, unlike india who got agvi v PrePainted from Russia


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## The SC

List of missiles of Pakistan:

Surface-to-surface missiles

Battlefield range ballistic missiles (BRBM)

Hatf-I/IA
Abdali-I
Nasr (Hatf-IX)

Short range ballistic missiles (SRBM)

Ghaznavi

Medium range ballistic missiles (MRBM)

Ghauri I
Shaheen I
Ghauri II
Shaheen II

Intermediate range ballistic missiles (IRBM)

Ghauri-III *
Shaheen-III *
Shaheen 1-A

Intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM)

Taimur (above 7,000 km range)[1]

Short range Missile (SRM)

NASAR

Cruise missiles

Babur (Hatf VII) - ground-launched cruise missile (submarine launched version under development)
Hatf-VIII (Ra'ad) - Air launched Cruise Missile developed exclusively for launch from Aerial Platforms.

Anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM)

Baktar-Shikan

Air-to-surface missiles

H-4 SOW - rocket-boosted, precision-guided glide bomb
Ra'ad (Hatf VIII) - air launched cruise missile

Surface-to-air missiles

Anza Mk.1, Mk.2, Mk.3

List of missiles of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Pakistani Army is working on increasing its ballistic missile range to 7,000 km, with the currently under development Taimur Missile. Taimur missile will be Pakistans first ICBM in reply to the Indian Agni-V missile.

Taimur missile which is believed to be test fired soon in the coming future, is now sure to be the first priority on Pakistan Armys priority list. This advancement will give Pakistan an edge in their strategic warfare technology also making Pakistan, one of the few nations possessing Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile technology.

Indias first Inter-Continental Ballistic missile ready for test flight | AAJ News

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## IndianTiger

I will die due to continuous laugh..

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## regular

IndianTiger said:


> I will die due to continuous laugh..


lets laugh together...............


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## The Deterrent

This thread should be closed now. The topic was crappy and there is no outcome of the discussion. Further posting will only encourage trolling.


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## xyxmt

IndianTiger said:


> I will die due to continuous laugh..



get a taste of how we felt for last 10 years watching India's tin boxes falling in the indian ocean


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## SpArK

xyxmt said:


> get a taste of how we felt for last 10 years watching India's tin boxes falling in the indian ocean


 
So ur tins falls in land itself?

Our tests are from lands to sea and its supposed to land in sea. 

Funny boy.

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## lordymclord

Pakistan doesn't have ICBM. We should nuke them before they do get them!


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## Albatross

lordymclord said:


> Pakistan doesn't have ICBM. We should nuke them before they do get them!


List of missiles of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Johny D

oh my God!


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## lordymclord

Albatross said:


> List of missiles of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
Those links don't exist in Wikipedia of the missiles. Besides they can't target the great US of A. We'll make a fuckin crater of Pakistan before they even try to launch from their primitive caves


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## regular

Pakistan has missiles far better than ICBMS so we don't need ICBMS.......


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## T-Rex

lordymclord said:


> Pakistan doesn't have ICBM. We should nuke them before they do get them!



*Yes, the world knows that you guys are thinking of that. BTW, you don't need to use the Pakistani flag for saying that, you can use your own flag.*


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## Cool_Soldier

Right now, we do not need to demonstrate such capability even if we possess.
There are so many areas where concentration is required.
e.g. ABM Tech


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## Reichsmarschall

I S I said:


> LOL


China has officially put the United States on notice that Washingtons planned attack on Pakistan will be interpreted as an act of aggression against Beijing. This blunt warning represents the first known strategic ultimatum received by the United States in half a century, going back to Soviet warnings during the Berlin crisis of 1958-1961, and indicates the grave danger of general war growing out of the US-Pakistan confrontation.
*Any Attack on Pakistan Would be Construed as an Attack on China*
Responding to reports that China has asked the US to respect Pakistans sovereignty in the aftermath of the Bin Laden operation, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu used a May 19 press briefing to state Beijings categorical demand that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Pakistan must be respected. According to Pakistani diplomatic sources cited by the Times of India, China has warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China. This ultimatum was reportedly delivered at the May 9 China-US strategic dialogue and economic talks in Washington, where the Chinese delegation was led by Vice Prime Minister Wang Qishan and State Councilor Dai Bingguo.1 Chinese warnings are implicitly backed up by that nations nuclear missiles, including an estimated 66 ICBMs, some capable of striking the United States, plus 118 intermediate-range missiles, 36 submarine-launched missiles, and numerous shorter-range systems.
Support from China is seen by regional observers as critically important for Pakistan, which is otherwise caught in a pincers between the US and India: If US and Indian pressure continues, Pakistan can say China is behind us. Dont think we are isolated, we have a potential superpower with us, Talat Masood, a political analyst and retired Pakistani general, told AFP.2
The Chinese ultimatum came during the visit of Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani in Beijing, during which the host government announced the transfer of 50 state-of-the-art JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan, immediately and without cost.3 Before his departure, Gilani had stressed the importance of the Pakistan-China alliance, proclaiming: We are proud to have China as our best and most trusted friend. And China will always find Pakistan standing beside it at all times.When we speak of this friendship as being taller than the Himalayas and deeper than the oceans it truly captures the essence of our relationship.4 These remarks were greeted by whining from US spokesmen, including Idaho Republican Senator Risch.
The simmering strategic crisis between the United States and Pakistan exploded with full force on May 1, with the unilateral and unauthorized US commando raid alleged to have killed the phantomatic Osama bin Laden in a compound at Abottabad, a flagrant violation of Pakistans national sovereignty. The timing of this military stunt designed to inflame tensions between the two countries had nothing to do with any alleged Global War on Terror, and everything to do with the late March visit to Pakistan of Prince Bandar, the Saudi Arabian National Security Council chief. This visit had resulted in a de facto alliance between Islamabad and Riyadh, with Pakistan promising troops to put down any US-backed color revolution in the kingdom, while extending nuclear protection to the Saudis, thus making them less vulnerable to US extortion threats to abandon the oil-rich monarchy to the tender mercies of Tehran. A joint move by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to break out of the US empire, whatever one may think of these regimes, would represent a fatal blow for the fading US empire in South Asia.
As for the US claims concerning the supposed Bin Laden raid of May 1, they are a mass of hopeless contradictions which changes from day to day. An analysis of this story is best left to literary critics and writers of theatrical reviews. The only solid and uncontestable fact which emerges is that Pakistan is the leading US target  thus intensifying the anti-Pakistan US policy which has been in place since Obamas infamous December 2009 West Point speech.
*Gilani: Full Force Retaliation to Defend Pakistans Strategic Assets*
The Chinese warning to Washington came on the heels of Gilanis statement to the Pakistan Parliament declaring: Let no one draw any wrong conclusions. Any attack against Pakistans strategic assets, whether overt or covert, will find a matching response. Pakistan reserves the right to retaliate with full force. No one should underestimate the resolve and capability of our nation and armed forces to defend our sacred homeland.5 A warning of full force retaliation from a nuclear power such as Pakistan needs to be taken seriously, even by the hardened aggressors of the Obama regime.
The strategic assets Gilani is talking about are the Pakistani nuclear forces, the key to the countrys deterrent strategy against possible aggression by India, egged on by Washington in the framework of the US-India nuclear cooperation accord. The US forces in Afghanistan have not been able to conceal their extensive planning for attempts to seize or destroy Pakistans nuclear bombs and warheads. According to a 2009 Fox News report, The United States has a detailed plan for infiltrating Pakistan and securing its mobile arsenal of nuclear warheads if it appears the country is about to fall under the control of the Taliban, Al Qaeda or other Islamic extremists. This plan was developed by General Stanley McChrystal when he headed the US Joint Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. JSOC, the force reportedly involved in the Bin Laden operation. is composed of Army Delta Force, Navy SEALs and a high-tech special intelligence unit known as Task Force Orange. Small units could seize [Pakistans nukes], disable them, and then centralize them in a secure location, claimed a source quoted by Fox.6
*Obama Has Already Approved Sneak Attack on Pakistans Nukes*
According to the London Sunday Express, Obama has already approved an aggressive move along these lines: US troops will be deployed in Pakistan if the nations nuclear installations come under threat from terrorists out to avenge the killing of Osama Bin Laden The plan, which would be activated without President Zardaris consent, provoked an angry reaction from Pakistan officials Barack Obama would order troops to parachute in to protect key nuclear missile sites. These include the air forces central Sargodha HQ, home base for nuclear-capable F-16 combat aircraft and at least 80 ballistic missiles. According to a US official, The plan is green lit and the President has already shown he is willing to deploy troops in Pakistan if he feels it is important for national security.7
Extreme tension over this issue highlights the brinksmanship and incalculable folly of Obamas May 1 unilateral raid, which might easily have been interpreted by the Pakistanis as the long-awaited attack on their nuclear forces. According to the New York Times, Obama knew very well he was courting immediate shooting war with Pakistan, and insisted that the assault force hunting down Osama bin Laden last week be large enough to fight its way out of Pakistan if confronted by hostile local police officers and troops.
*The Shooting Has Already Started*
The shooting between US and Pakistani forces escalated on Tuesday May 17, when a US NATO helicopter violated Pakistani airspace in Waziristan. Pakistani forces showed heightened alert status, and opened fire immediately, with the US helicopter shooting back. Two soldiers at a Pakistani check post on the border in the Datta Khel area were wounded.8
Possible Pakistani retaliation for this border incursion came in Peshawar on Friday, May 20, when a car bomb apparently targeted a 2-car US consulate convoy, but caused no American deaths or injuries. One Pakistani bystander was killed, and several wounded. In other intelligence warfare, Ary One television reported the name of the CIA station chief in Islamabad, the second top US resident spook there to have his cover blown in six months.
*US Envoy Grossman Rejects Pakistani Calls To Stop Border Violations*
US Special Representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan Marc Grossman, the replacement for the late Richard Holbrooke, on May 19 arrogantly rejected Pakistani calls for guarantees that no more Abottabad-style unilateral operations would be mounted in Pakistan.9 In refusing to offer such assurances, Grossman claimed that Pakistani officials had never demanded respect for their border in recent years.10
In the midst of this strategic crisis, India has gone ahead with inherently provocative scheduled military maneuvers targeting Pakistan. This is the Vijayee Bhava (Be Victorious) drill, held in the Thar desert of north Rajastan,. This atomic-biological-chemical Blitzkrieg drill involves the Second Armored Corps, considered to be the most crucial of the Indian Armys three principal strike formations tasked with virtually cutting Pakistan in two during a full-fledged war.11
The Nation: A CIA-RAW-Mossad Pseudo-Taliban Countergang
One way to provide the provocation needed to justify a US-Indian attack on Pakistan would be through an increase in terrorist actions attributable to the so-called Taliban. According to the mainstream Pakistani media, the CIA, the Israeli Mossad, and the Indian RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) have created their own version of the Taliban in the form of a terrorist countergang which they control and direct. According to one account, Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operatives have infiltrated the Taliban and Al-Qaeda networks, and have created their own Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) force in order to destabilize Pakistan. The former Punjab Regional Commander of the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI), retired Brigadier General Aslam Ghuman, commented: During my visit to the US, I learned that the Israeli spy agency Mossad, in connivance with Indian agency RAW, under the direct supervision of CIA, planned to destabilize Pakistan at any cost.12 Was this countergang responsible for last weeks double bombing in Waziristan, which killed 80 paramilitary police?
According to the same account, Russian intelligence disclosed that CIA contractor Raymond Davis and his network had provided Al-Qaeda operatives with chemical, nuclear and biological weapons, so that US installations may be targeted and Pakistan be blamed. Davis, a JSOC veteran himself, was arrested for the murder of two ISI agents, but then released by the Pakistani government after a suspicious hue and cry by the State Department.
*CIA Claims The New Al Qaeda Boss Lives in Waziristan*
If the US needs a further pretext for additional raids, it will also be easy to cite the alleged presence in Waziristan of Saif al-Adel, now touted by the CIA as bin Ladens likely successor as boss of al Qaeda.13 It is doubtless convenient for Obamas aggressive intentions that Saif al-Adel can be claimed to reside so close to what is now the hottest border in the world, and not in Finsbury or Flatbush.
In the wake of the unauthorized May 1 US raid, the Pakistani military chief General Kayani had issued his own warning that similar misadventures could not be repeated, while announcing that US personnel inside Pakistan would be sharply reduced. In the estimate of one ISI source, there are currently about 7,000 CIA operatives in country, many of them unknown to the Pakistani government. US-Pakistan intelligence sharing has reportedly been downgraded. In response to Kayanis moves, the CIA limited hangout operation known as Wikileaks once again showed its real nature by attempting to discredit the Pakistan commander with dubious US cable reports that he had demanded more Predator drone attacks, not fewer, in recent years.
Especially since Obamas West Point speech, the CIA has used Predator drone attacks to slaughter civilians with the goal of fomenting civil war inside Pakistan, leading to a breakup of the country along the ethnic lines of Punjab, Sind, Baluchistan, and Pushtunistan. The geopolitical goal is to destroy Pakistans potential to be the energy corridor between Iran and China. Selig Harrison has emerged as a top US advocate for Baluchistan succession.
Since May 1, six reported US Predator drones attacks have slain some 42 Pakistani civilians, goading public opinion into a frenzy of anti-US hatred. In response, a joint session of the Pakistani parliament voted unanimously on May 14 to demand an end to American missile strikes, calling on the government to cut NATOs supply line to Afghanistan if the attacks should continue.14 Since the Karachi to Khyber Pass supply line carries as much as two thirds of the supplies needed by the Afghanistan invaders, such a cutoff would cause chaos among the NATO forces. All of this points to the inherent insanity of provoking war with the country your supply line runs through.
*US Wants to Use Taliban Boss Mullah Omar Against Pakistan*
The State Department dropped all preconditions for negotiating with the Taliban back in February, and the US is now reported by the Washington Post to be talking with envoys of Mullah Omar, the legendary one-eyed leader of the Quetta Shura or Taliban ruling council. It is apparent that the US is offering the Taliban an alliance against Pakistan. US regional envoy Grossman is hostile to the Pakistanis, but when it comes to the Taliban he has been nicknamed Mr. Reconciliation.15 By contrast, the US is said to be determined to assassinate the head of the Haqqani network using a Bin Laden-type raid. The Pakistanis are equally determined to keep the Haqqani as an ally.
If China stands behind Pakistan, then Russia might be said to stand behind China. Looking forward to the upcoming June 15 meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, Chinese President Hu praised Sino-Russian relations as being at an unprecedented high point, with an obvious strategic ingredient. In a press conference this week, Russian President Medvedev was obliged indirectly to acknowledge that the much-hyped Obama reset with Russia had amounted to very little, since the US ABM missile program in Romania and the rest of eastern Europe, so obviously directed against Russia, means that the START treaty is of dubious value, thus raising the specter of a new Cold War. Given the NATO assault on Libya, there would be no UN resolution against Syria, said Medvedev. Putin has been right all along, and Medvedev is trying to imitate Putin to salvage some chance of remaining in power.
*Are We in July 1914?*
The crisis leading to World War I began with the Sarajevo assassinations of June 28, 1914, but the first major declaration of war did not occur until August 1. In the interim month of July 1914, large parts of European public opinion retreated into a dreamlike trance, an idyllic la-la land of elegiac illusion, even as the deadly crisis gathered momentum. Something similar can be seen today. Many Americans fondly imagine that the alleged death of Bin Laden marks the end of the war on terror and the Afghan War. Instead, the Bin Laden operation has clearly ushered in a new strategic emergency. Forces which had opposed the Iraq war, from MSNBC to many left liberals of the peace movement, are variously supporting Obamas bloody aggression in Libya, or even celebrating him as a more effective warmonger than Bush-Cheney because of his supposed success at the expense of Bin Laden. In reality, if there were ever a time to mobilize to stop a new and wider war, this is it

Source

China warns US against war with Pakistan | EUTimes.net
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/attack-on-pak-will-be-attack-on-china-report/793100/

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## I S I

Narendra Trump said:


> China has officially put the United States on notice that Washingtons planned attack on Pakistan will be interpreted as an act of aggression against Beijing. This blunt warning represents the first known strategic ultimatum received by the United States in half a century, going back to Soviet warnings during the Berlin crisis of 1958-1961, and indicates the grave danger of general war growing out of the US-Pakistan confrontation.
> *Any Attack on Pakistan Would be Construed as an Attack on China*
> Responding to reports that China has asked the US to respect Pakistans sovereignty in the aftermath of the Bin Laden operation, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu used a May 19 press briefing to state Beijings categorical demand that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Pakistan must be respected. According to Pakistani diplomatic sources cited by the Times of India, China has warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China. This ultimatum was reportedly delivered at the May 9 China-US strategic dialogue and economic talks in Washington, where the Chinese delegation was led by Vice Prime Minister Wang Qishan and State Councilor Dai Bingguo.1 Chinese warnings are implicitly backed up by that nations nuclear missiles, including an estimated 66 ICBMs, some capable of striking the United States, plus 118 intermediate-range missiles, 36 submarine-launched missiles, and numerous shorter-range systems.
> Support from China is seen by regional observers as critically important for Pakistan, which is otherwise caught in a pincers between the US and India: If US and Indian pressure continues, Pakistan can say China is behind us. Dont think we are isolated, we have a potential superpower with us, Talat Masood, a political analyst and retired Pakistani general, told AFP.2
> The Chinese ultimatum came during the visit of Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani in Beijing, during which the host government announced the transfer of 50 state-of-the-art JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan, immediately and without cost.3 Before his departure, Gilani had stressed the importance of the Pakistan-China alliance, proclaiming: We are proud to have China as our best and most trusted friend. And China will always find Pakistan standing beside it at all times.When we speak of this friendship as being taller than the Himalayas and deeper than the oceans it truly captures the essence of our relationship.4 These remarks were greeted by whining from US spokesmen, including Idaho Republican Senator Risch.
> The simmering strategic crisis between the United States and Pakistan exploded with full force on May 1, with the unilateral and unauthorized US commando raid alleged to have killed the phantomatic Osama bin Laden in a compound at Abottabad, a flagrant violation of Pakistans national sovereignty. The timing of this military stunt designed to inflame tensions between the two countries had nothing to do with any alleged Global War on Terror, and everything to do with the late March visit to Pakistan of Prince Bandar, the Saudi Arabian National Security Council chief. This visit had resulted in a de facto alliance between Islamabad and Riyadh, with Pakistan promising troops to put down any US-backed color revolution in the kingdom, while extending nuclear protection to the Saudis, thus making them less vulnerable to US extortion threats to abandon the oil-rich monarchy to the tender mercies of Tehran. A joint move by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to break out of the US empire, whatever one may think of these regimes, would represent a fatal blow for the fading US empire in South Asia.
> As for the US claims concerning the supposed Bin Laden raid of May 1, they are a mass of hopeless contradictions which changes from day to day. An analysis of this story is best left to literary critics and writers of theatrical reviews. The only solid and uncontestable fact which emerges is that Pakistan is the leading US target  thus intensifying the anti-Pakistan US policy which has been in place since Obamas infamous December 2009 West Point speech.
> *Gilani: Full Force Retaliation to Defend Pakistans Strategic Assets*
> The Chinese warning to Washington came on the heels of Gilanis statement to the Pakistan Parliament declaring: Let no one draw any wrong conclusions. Any attack against Pakistans strategic assets, whether overt or covert, will find a matching response. Pakistan reserves the right to retaliate with full force. No one should underestimate the resolve and capability of our nation and armed forces to defend our sacred homeland.5 A warning of full force retaliation from a nuclear power such as Pakistan needs to be taken seriously, even by the hardened aggressors of the Obama regime.
> The strategic assets Gilani is talking about are the Pakistani nuclear forces, the key to the countrys deterrent strategy against possible aggression by India, egged on by Washington in the framework of the US-India nuclear cooperation accord. The US forces in Afghanistan have not been able to conceal their extensive planning for attempts to seize or destroy Pakistans nuclear bombs and warheads. According to a 2009 Fox News report, The United States has a detailed plan for infiltrating Pakistan and securing its mobile arsenal of nuclear warheads if it appears the country is about to fall under the control of the Taliban, Al Qaeda or other Islamic extremists. This plan was developed by General Stanley McChrystal when he headed the US Joint Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. JSOC, the force reportedly involved in the Bin Laden operation. is composed of Army Delta Force, Navy SEALs and a high-tech special intelligence unit known as Task Force Orange. Small units could seize [Pakistans nukes], disable them, and then centralize them in a secure location, claimed a source quoted by Fox.6
> *Obama Has Already Approved Sneak Attack on Pakistans Nukes*
> According to the London Sunday Express, Obama has already approved an aggressive move along these lines: US troops will be deployed in Pakistan if the nations nuclear installations come under threat from terrorists out to avenge the killing of Osama Bin Laden The plan, which would be activated without President Zardaris consent, provoked an angry reaction from Pakistan officials Barack Obama would order troops to parachute in to protect key nuclear missile sites. These include the air forces central Sargodha HQ, home base for nuclear-capable F-16 combat aircraft and at least 80 ballistic missiles. According to a US official, The plan is green lit and the President has already shown he is willing to deploy troops in Pakistan if he feels it is important for national security.7
> Extreme tension over this issue highlights the brinksmanship and incalculable folly of Obamas May 1 unilateral raid, which might easily have been interpreted by the Pakistanis as the long-awaited attack on their nuclear forces. According to the New York Times, Obama knew very well he was courting immediate shooting war with Pakistan, and insisted that the assault force hunting down Osama bin Laden last week be large enough to fight its way out of Pakistan if confronted by hostile local police officers and troops.
> *The Shooting Has Already Started*
> The shooting between US and Pakistani forces escalated on Tuesday May 17, when a US NATO helicopter violated Pakistani airspace in Waziristan. Pakistani forces showed heightened alert status, and opened fire immediately, with the US helicopter shooting back. Two soldiers at a Pakistani check post on the border in the Datta Khel area were wounded.8
> Possible Pakistani retaliation for this border incursion came in Peshawar on Friday, May 20, when a car bomb apparently targeted a 2-car US consulate convoy, but caused no American deaths or injuries. One Pakistani bystander was killed, and several wounded. In other intelligence warfare, Ary One television reported the name of the CIA station chief in Islamabad, the second top US resident spook there to have his cover blown in six months.
> *US Envoy Grossman Rejects Pakistani Calls To Stop Border Violations*
> US Special Representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan Marc Grossman, the replacement for the late Richard Holbrooke, on May 19 arrogantly rejected Pakistani calls for guarantees that no more Abottabad-style unilateral operations would be mounted in Pakistan.9 In refusing to offer such assurances, Grossman claimed that Pakistani officials had never demanded respect for their border in recent years.10
> In the midst of this strategic crisis, India has gone ahead with inherently provocative scheduled military maneuvers targeting Pakistan. This is the Vijayee Bhava (Be Victorious) drill, held in the Thar desert of north Rajastan,. This atomic-biological-chemical Blitzkrieg drill involves the Second Armored Corps, considered to be the most crucial of the Indian Armys three principal strike formations tasked with virtually cutting Pakistan in two during a full-fledged war.11
> The Nation: A CIA-RAW-Mossad Pseudo-Taliban Countergang
> One way to provide the provocation needed to justify a US-Indian attack on Pakistan would be through an increase in terrorist actions attributable to the so-called Taliban. According to the mainstream Pakistani media, the CIA, the Israeli Mossad, and the Indian RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) have created their own version of the Taliban in the form of a terrorist countergang which they control and direct. According to one account, Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operatives have infiltrated the Taliban and Al-Qaeda networks, and have created their own Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) force in order to destabilize Pakistan. The former Punjab Regional Commander of the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI), retired Brigadier General Aslam Ghuman, commented: During my visit to the US, I learned that the Israeli spy agency Mossad, in connivance with Indian agency RAW, under the direct supervision of CIA, planned to destabilize Pakistan at any cost.12 Was this countergang responsible for last weeks double bombing in Waziristan, which killed 80 paramilitary police?
> According to the same account, Russian intelligence disclosed that CIA contractor Raymond Davis and his network had provided Al-Qaeda operatives with chemical, nuclear and biological weapons, so that US installations may be targeted and Pakistan be blamed. Davis, a JSOC veteran himself, was arrested for the murder of two ISI agents, but then released by the Pakistani government after a suspicious hue and cry by the State Department.
> *CIA Claims The New Al Qaeda Boss Lives in Waziristan*
> If the US needs a further pretext for additional raids, it will also be easy to cite the alleged presence in Waziristan of Saif al-Adel, now touted by the CIA as bin Ladens likely successor as boss of al Qaeda.13 It is doubtless convenient for Obamas aggressive intentions that Saif al-Adel can be claimed to reside so close to what is now the hottest border in the world, and not in Finsbury or Flatbush.
> In the wake of the unauthorized May 1 US raid, the Pakistani military chief General Kayani had issued his own warning that similar misadventures could not be repeated, while announcing that US personnel inside Pakistan would be sharply reduced. In the estimate of one ISI source, there are currently about 7,000 CIA operatives in country, many of them unknown to the Pakistani government. US-Pakistan intelligence sharing has reportedly been downgraded. In response to Kayanis moves, the CIA limited hangout operation known as Wikileaks once again showed its real nature by attempting to discredit the Pakistan commander with dubious US cable reports that he had demanded more Predator drone attacks, not fewer, in recent years.
> Especially since Obamas West Point speech, the CIA has used Predator drone attacks to slaughter civilians with the goal of fomenting civil war inside Pakistan, leading to a breakup of the country along the ethnic lines of Punjab, Sind, Baluchistan, and Pushtunistan. The geopolitical goal is to destroy Pakistans potential to be the energy corridor between Iran and China. Selig Harrison has emerged as a top US advocate for Baluchistan succession.
> Since May 1, six reported US Predator drones attacks have slain some 42 Pakistani civilians, goading public opinion into a frenzy of anti-US hatred. In response, a joint session of the Pakistani parliament voted unanimously on May 14 to demand an end to American missile strikes, calling on the government to cut NATOs supply line to Afghanistan if the attacks should continue.14 Since the Karachi to Khyber Pass supply line carries as much as two thirds of the supplies needed by the Afghanistan invaders, such a cutoff would cause chaos among the NATO forces. All of this points to the inherent insanity of provoking war with the country your supply line runs through.
> *US Wants to Use Taliban Boss Mullah Omar Against Pakistan*
> The State Department dropped all preconditions for negotiating with the Taliban back in February, and the US is now reported by the Washington Post to be talking with envoys of Mullah Omar, the legendary one-eyed leader of the Quetta Shura or Taliban ruling council. It is apparent that the US is offering the Taliban an alliance against Pakistan. US regional envoy Grossman is hostile to the Pakistanis, but when it comes to the Taliban he has been nicknamed Mr. Reconciliation.15 By contrast, the US is said to be determined to assassinate the head of the Haqqani network using a Bin Laden-type raid. The Pakistanis are equally determined to keep the Haqqani as an ally.
> If China stands behind Pakistan, then Russia might be said to stand behind China. Looking forward to the upcoming June 15 meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, Chinese President Hu praised Sino-Russian relations as being at an unprecedented high point, with an obvious strategic ingredient. In a press conference this week, Russian President Medvedev was obliged indirectly to acknowledge that the much-hyped Obama reset with Russia had amounted to very little, since the US ABM missile program in Romania and the rest of eastern Europe, so obviously directed against Russia, means that the START treaty is of dubious value, thus raising the specter of a new Cold War. Given the NATO assault on Libya, there would be no UN resolution against Syria, said Medvedev. Putin has been right all along, and Medvedev is trying to imitate Putin to salvage some chance of remaining in power.
> *Are We in July 1914?*
> The crisis leading to World War I began with the Sarajevo assassinations of June 28, 1914, but the first major declaration of war did not occur until August 1. In the interim month of July 1914, large parts of European public opinion retreated into a dreamlike trance, an idyllic la-la land of elegiac illusion, even as the deadly crisis gathered momentum. Something similar can be seen today. Many Americans fondly imagine that the alleged death of Bin Laden marks the end of the war on terror and the Afghan War. Instead, the Bin Laden operation has clearly ushered in a new strategic emergency. Forces which had opposed the Iraq war, from MSNBC to many left liberals of the peace movement, are variously supporting Obamas bloody aggression in Libya, or even celebrating him as a more effective warmonger than Bush-Cheney because of his supposed success at the expense of Bin Laden. In reality, if there were ever a time to mobilize to stop a new and wider war, this is it
> 
> Source
> 
> China warns US against war with Pakistan | EUTimes.net
> http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/attack-on-pak-will-be-attack-on-china-report/793100/


Old & bogus report. Any international source?


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## Reichsmarschall

I S I said:


> Old & bogus report. Any international source?


both links are of international media outlets


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## I S I

Narendra Trump said:


> both links are of international media outlets


I mean western.

Edit: ok. Got it.


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## Reichsmarschall

I S I said:


> I mean western.
> 
> Edit: ok. Got it.


no but there are media reports in india

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## Cool_Soldier

Pakistan has no conflict with USA and USA do not have any plan to go against Pakistan. Both countries are allies in many situations around he world.


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## araz

I did not read the thread and am surprised that it has been going on as long as it has.
I would caution Pakistanis against jingoism. These news are planted in the press to create hysteria amongst the western masses and consequent support for an unwarranted aggressive stance. It was and remains a part of the "do more" approach.
ICBMs were neither a part of Pakistani doctrine nor do we need them. We need to make this clear to the whole world and their aunts. Pakistani governments have enjoyed a close working relationship with the west and continues to do so. Although we are very capable of defending ourselves we do not have any aggressive designs against anyone. We have too many internal and external pressures to be indulging in a useless ventures which are a waste of our reesources.
A

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## T-Rex

Cool_Soldier said:


> Pakistan has no conflict with USA and USA do not have any plan to go against Pakistan. Both countries are allies in many situations around he world.


*
Every few years the US generals and their bosses leak out maps Of Pakistan torn into pieces. Publicly some of them portray Pakistan as a major threat to peace. What else needs to be said? Some people love to sleep with their eyes wide open.*


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## Mo12

wow india need to increase agni to 10k asap to match pak


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## EpiiC

I really hope we do make fission based 3 stage high yeild MIRVed ICBMS Close to 10,000KM range!!! We have the least developed nuclear programme among nuclear weapon countries....



Mo12 said:


> wow india need to increase agni to 10k asap to match pak


You guys have H-bomb/fission weapons and ICBMS and SLBM/SSBN, also your nuclear weapons have a much higher yeild than ours as ours a low yeild tactical nukes and fusion bombs... which makes your nuclear programme more better and advanced than ours...


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## Cookie Monster

Oscar said:


> Its not about having the capability..we have it, I know of it as well.
> But having capable rocket motors, guidance , construction materials and concepts(stage separation physics, timings, body design etc) is different from actually mating it into a package.
> Its all there, and then its not.



Off topic but I think Iran may have done the same thing as u r suggesting, regarding its nuclear weapons capability. I think Iran acquired enough knowledge to be able to build the bomb but didn't actually build one. Instead opted to make the deal with the west to get rid of sanctions in order to boost its economy. Should the need arise they may be able to build it but in the meantime they r enjoying the opportunity of being able to double dip.

...though I have no proof...just pure speculation.


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## DJ_Viper

King Solomon said:


> Hmm, coincidentally or not this information is the same as I heard from my source. Agni V's real range was 8000 km and pakistan's missile's test was not more than 2000 km.



I don't believe the fact that Pakistan only has missiles going 2000 KM's. 1: because the Shaheen system II or III was already over 3000 KM's. In fact, there was a test where less fuel was put into the missile to reduce its range to 2700KM+, to reach the maximum target range within Pakistan's boundaries. If Pakistan was bigger like India or China, they might've done the full range test. Second, why do they have to announce it and cause panic? They know how we will react so they arr being smart about it.

3: They've been sending rockets into space for testing for the past 4 decades. When they acquired and advanced the guidance system, it is silly to assume that they've not used techniques like more fuel, solid fuel (which is what Shaheen system is based off of), etc, etc. I guess they'll show case these capabilities when a need comes IMO.

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## Surya 1

King Solomon said:


> Hmm, coincidentally or not this information is the same as I heard from my source. Agni V's real range was 8000 km and pakistan's missile's test was not more than 2000 km.



When we tested Agni V and declared its range as 5000 KM, China told that it is 8000 to 9000 KM. So pakistani missile must have a range higher than 8000 km. So now pakistan missile has 9000+ KM range. Very simple.


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## EpiiC

Cool_Soldier said:


> Right now, we do not need to demonstrate such capability even if we possess.
> There are so many areas where concentration is required.
> e.g. ABM Tech


Best ABM Tech in the world is AEGIS SM-3 IIA, India has a world class ABM tec of its own and has ordered s400.... Pakistan must focus on MIRV if it wants a high chance of its nukes landing on India....


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## Surya 1

EpiiC said:


> Best ABM Tech in the world is AEGIS SM-3 IIA, India has a world class ABM tec of its own and has ordered s400.... Pakistan must focus on MIRV if it wants a high chance of its nukes landing on India....



By the time you do that, We will have laser to shoot your missile down in boost phase.


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## EpiiC

Surya 1 said:


> By the time you do that, We will have laser to shoot your missile down in boost phase.


Even the west don't have laser it won't be around for a long time.... You would need a really powerful laswe weapon to shoot down mach 20 missiles.

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## somebozo

Terminal X is fan boy blog they publish such horrendous propaganda for the sake of generating traffic and monetizing clicks from adwords!


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## Cool_Soldier

Surya 1 said:


> By the time you do that, We will have laser to shoot your missile down in boost phase.



O really.....try to live in realistic world.

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## JOEY TRIBIANI

Surya 1 said:


> By the time you do that, We will have laser to shoot your missile down in boost phase.


Try to make a decent rifle for your soldiers first .

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## BetterPakistan

Surya 1 said:


> By the time you do that, We will have laser to shoot your missile down in boost phase.



  : D

I guess India should fulfill their bulletproof jackets requirement first.


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## Surya 1

JOEY TRIBIANI said:


> Try to make a decent rifle for your soldiers first .



We have left this sort of low tech work for some some moderately developed countries. We are busy in preparation of 103 satellite in one go and world's most sophisticated missiles.

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## EpiiC

Surya 1 said:


> We have left this sort of low tech work for some some moderately developed countries. We are busy in preparation of 103 satellite in one go and world's most sophisticated missiles.


Worlds most sophisticated missiles? Which?


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## Surya 1

EpiiC said:


> Worlds most sophisticated missiles? Which?



Brahmos, LRSAM Agni series.


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## EpiiC

Surya 1 said:


> Brahmos, LRSAM Agni series.


Agni V is good and you need to mass produce Agni VI ICBM 100 of those missiles significantly increases your power projection....

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## Surya 1

EpiiC said:


> Agni V is good and you need to mass produce Agni VI ICBM 100 of those missiles significantly increases your power projection....



Whole Agni series is top class missiles now. Since Agni IV, we entered into a new phase of technologies which is very light in weight, composite motors and multiple guidence systems to complement each other. We are now re-configuring old agni missiles with these new systems. Recently we tested new Agni 1 prime with these system for very very high accuracy.


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## EpiiC

Surya 1 said:


> Whole Agni series is top class missiles now. Since Agni IV, we entered into a new phase of technologies which is very light in weight, composite motors and multiple guidence systems to complement each other. We are now re-configuring old agni missiles with these new systems. Recently we tested new Agni 1 prime with these system for very very high accuracy.


Whats the yeild of these fission thermonuclear missiles?


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## sherin616

Whats the connection with icbm and satellite launching capability?

Every one but Pakistan have satellite launching capabilities with converted icbm


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## JOEY TRIBIANI

Surya 1 said:


> We have left this sort of low tech work for some some moderately developed countries. We are busy in preparation of 103 satellite in one go and world's most sophisticated missiles.


Lolz ok .. Cough cough nirbay cough ..


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## Hassan Guy

Well now would be a good time to test-fire them....


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## YeBeWarned

@WebMaster @Oscar why this thread is still not locked ?


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## EpiiC

Hassan Guy said:


> Well now would be a good time to test-fire them....


Yh India just tested 2 ICBMS.... America will test ICBM and try to Intercept it out as well.... The world is testing ICBMS right now!!! NOW is the right time!!!!! we won't be alone or odd one out in this!!!!

Even North Korea is about to test ICBM and Russia also tested its missiles few months back.... 

U.S. readies 1st-ever ICBM target intercept attempt in major test of ground-based system http://ow.ly/u27F307FRZv 

https://insidedefense.com/daily-new...r-test-ground-based-system?platform=hootsuite

*INDIA’S NIRBHAY NUCLEAR-CAPABLE CRUISE MISSILE FAILS FOURTH TEST-LAUNCH*

*INDIA CONDUCTS FOURTH AGNI-5 TEST-LAUNCH*
On December 26, 2016, India conducted the fourth test of its indigenously developed Agni-5 nuclear-capable intercontinental ballistic missile from Wheeler Island off the Odisha coast. Agni-5 reportedly has the potential to carry either a 1,500 kg high explosive warhead or a 1-ton nuclear warhead. With a range of 5,000- 8,000 km,

*INDIA CONDUCTS SIXTH TEST-LAUNCH OF AGNI-4 MISSILE*
On January 2, 2017, India conducted the sixth test-launch of its Agni-4 nuclear-capable ballistic missile from Wheeler Island.

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## PakistanisofBritain

We can reach India


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## EpiiC

PakistanisofBritain said:


> We can reach India


No power projection outside of India!! All missiles India focused not good....


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