# Attack on PAF Base Minhas



## HAIDER

Attack is going on. It was expected after Kiyani speech on 14th Aug. Pak armed force preparing to finish TTP once for all.
All terrorist dead.
One PAF commando martyr
PAF commodore took bullet but survive 
One PAF refueler took some bullet 

Excellent job by PAF commandos.

Overall all good
----------------------------------------------------------------------

*Another breaking news: All 8 terrorist foreigners . Pictures will be published in next few hours. PAF Spokesman said.*

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## Hyperion

Source? Come on... hurry up..... who is covering it?

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## Last Hope

UPDATES:

Good news are coming now.

The operation is reaching the end, no aircraft destroyed, 9-10 attackers are surrounded, hangars are secured. The attack failed miserably and the only casualties faced are due to explosion of fuel depot. No death reported yet.

You may now calm down, *THE ATTACK FAILED AND MILITARY OPERATION IS NEARING IT'S SUCCESSFUL END AFTER ABOUT 2.5 HOURS.*

111 Brigade, FC, Rangers, SSG and SSW have taken part in this battle. And according to unconfirmed reports, Saab-2000 and production line was the main target.

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## Mercenary

i dont see it anywhere....


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## Deno

Can you please give more information on this? Who is doing the attack? I couldn't find anything on internet and still searching on cable.


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## Leader

Army has been called in !!


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## Donatello

Airforce sleeping on the job again?

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## A1Kaid

Any trusted source on this?


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

not sure yet , it is like one that happened in Karachi on mehran base


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## A.Muqeet khan

HAIDER said:


> Attack is going on. It was expected after Kiyani speech on 14th Aug. Pak armed force preparing to finish TTP once for all.


you dont usually post crap ?


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## Last Hope

Breaking news on TV Channels, JF-17 production line has been targeted, special services are currently executing RESCUE OPERATION for the PAF personnel injured and killed.


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## Hyperion

HAIDER said:


> Attack is going on. It was expected after Kiyani speech on 14th Aug. Pak armed force preparing to finish TTP once for all.



Kamra is home to F-16's? Come on, I can't call the base commander without any preliminary proof. My course-mates are based there.... HURRY UPPPPPPP!!!!


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## Leader

its on GEO.....


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## Mercenary

u got the wrong base...its PAF Base Minhas


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## A1Kaid

Five days ago the Express Tribune posted this.


Threat alerts:

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

jeo news is reporting about it ...........


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## Hyperion

Mercenary said:


> u got the wrong base...its PAF Base Minhas


Sure mate? Please paste a link... It's really annoying....


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

they have attacked the aircraft ans there are reports that aircraft are damaged


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## Last Hope

Geo news journalist on line is speaking and you could hear heavy firing in the back ground.

BREAKING NEWS, PAKISTAN AIR FORCE BASE MINHAS (KAMRA) AND JF-17 PRODUCTION LINE AT THE BASE HAS BEEN TARGETED, SEVERAL PAF OFFICERS HELD HOSTAGES, SEVERAL INJURED AND POSSIBLY KILLED. SPECIAL SERVICES CURRENTLY CARRYING OUT RESCUE OPERATION FOR INJURED OFFICERS.

HEAVY FIRING AT THE SITE.


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## Hyperion

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> jeo news is reporting about it ...........



Geo website is reporting no such thing... C'mon people.... I'll take any shabby source!


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## Mercenary

How could these animals penetrate such a fortified site?

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

there are news that flames can be seen , news aren't good



Hyperion said:


> Geo website is reporting no such thing... C'mon people.... I'll take any shabby source!


now all media channels are reporting


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## Tiger Awan

Any news on injured???


We have a production facility + Air Base

Is it confirmed they are attacking production lines??? I hope no AC is lost


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## Mercenary

And this happens on Pakistan's 65th Independence Anniversary.....

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## Hyperion

We seriously have become the laughing stock of the UNIVERSE!

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

terrorists were successful in entering in base ............. they have entered from the near village , 
the attack took place about 2 hours ago


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## Emmie

Geo tv reports its on kamra.. Intensive firing in the area.


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## HAIDER

It just started coverage few minutes ago. This firing started 2.30. Its extremely close combat according to Geo


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## Mercenary

You guys based in Pakistan and Dubai can watch the live Geo Feed here:

Geo News Live | Geo Tv Live | Watch Geo News | Live Geo Streaming


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## MJaa

*PAF MINHAS AIRBASE / KAMRA AIR BASE UNDER ATTACK

*

Pakistani News Channels are reporting that PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base has come under attack from a terrorist group and exchange of firing started at around 2:30 and is continuing till 4:00 AM

Pakistan Army is also sending its rescue and Special Operation Force teams are towards the base.

Over 30 aircrafts including JF-17 Thunder fighter jets are present at the airbase


*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Attack ~ Pakistan Military Review*


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## Hyperion

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> there are news that flames can be seen , news aren't good
> 
> 
> now all media channels are reporting



STILL NOTHING ONLINE!!!!!!!!


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## Mercenary

You guys based in Dubai and Pakistan can watch the live feed here

Geo News Live | Geo Tv Live | Watch Geo News | Live Geo Streaming


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## AtillaHun

Isit taliban that is attacking ? PAF should crush these terrorists.


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## rubyjackass

dunya tv is reporting.
Live Streaming Dunya News TV , Dunya TV Pakistan

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## SMC

Mercenary said:


> And this happens on Pakistan's 65th Independence Anniversary.....



Don't get a boner just yet.. these guys have not entered the base and have been stopped from entering.


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## Hyperion

Emmie said:


> Geo tv reports its on kamra.. Intensive firing in the area.



Emmie, is there a way to watch Geo-TV online?


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## HAIDER

Kamra has 3 tier . Its fighting inside 2nd tier. But good news they are all trapped.

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## AtillaHun

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> terrorists were successful in entering in base ............. they have entered from the near village ,
> the attack took place about 2 hours ago



Its time to crush these terrorists , the army should send reinforcements and crush these for ever.



HAIDER said:


> Kamra has 3 tier . Its fighting inside 2 tier. But good news they are all trapped.



Thats good , there should be rienforcements so they surrounded and cant get out .

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## A1Kaid

If they attacked a production line and PAF base that means the attack has occurred in two separate places. I think the attack will be put down soon. Nor do I think any "penetration" has taken place probably outside the AF base.



Hyperion said:


> We seriously have become the laughing stock of the UNIVERSE!




Nobody is fighting a more determined foe than Pakistan, the world itself is a piece of sht place. Most of the worlds countries would have been conquered by the Taliban, Pakistan has been fighting a counter-insurgency for over a decade. There are still some factions of the TTP remaining, though much of their leadership has been killed; it is possible the Taliban have conducted this attack in response to a major Taliban commander death at the hands of PM. Past few days PAF has been blasting Waziristan and Taliban locations.


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## Emmie

I hope they don't make it to proper base. Shame on terrorists, its shab-e-qadar and they still claim they are Muslim.

My foot, bloody scums.

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## SQ8

Shab Qadr night.. personell were half in prayer. 
the target was most likely the JF-17 line along with your Saab-2000 stationed there..And this is not just a "terrorist" target.
Expect worse news than Faisal base.. 
And another big setback for us..but then again..whats new.

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## Bratva

Attackers were wearing Army/ Airforce Personals Uniforms, Crossed 3 check posts and started their attacks. Penetrated into the Base.

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## Last Hope

Grenades are now being used by the terrorists, hope the men, the production line and the birds are safe.
The forces on the site are trying to attract attention to themselves to help safety of the air base and assets.

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## mjnaushad

Hyperion said:


> OPERATION TRUE FREEDOM THE ARMY NEEDS TO KILL EVERY ISLAMIST AND BEARDED MAN IN PAKISTAN.


 



dude i did not shave from last few days...... becareful in your words...

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## Hyperion

A1Kaid said:


> If they attacked a production line and PAF base that means the attack has occurred in two separate places. I think the attack will be put down soon. Nor do I think any "penetration" has taken place probably outside the AF base.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is fighting a more determined foe than Pakistan, the world itself is a piece of sht place. Most of the worlds countries would have been conquered by the Taliban, Pakistan has been fighting a counter-insurgency for over a decade. There are still some factions of the TTP remaining, though much of their leadership has been killed; it is possible the Taliban have conducted this attack in response to a major Taliban commander death at the hands of PM. Past few days PAF has been blasting Waziristan and Taliban locations.



WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP.. We are pu*** footing. KILL ALL THE ISLAMISTS and voila you have a solution. Scourge of religion HAS to to be surgically removed from the armed forces and our society in general.

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## Bas_tum_Pak

My brother is There on JF-17 Project.

Just Called my brother, he is Residence area and attack is on other Side i.e. Factory Area.

He told me that he Heard few blasts and Still firing.

Please Pray for all ..

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## Bratva

A1Kaid said:


> If they attacked a production line and PAF base that means the attack has occurred in two separate places. I think the attack will be put down soon. Nor do I think any "penetration" has taken place probably outside the AF base.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is fighting a more determined foe than Pakistan, the world itself is a piece of sht place. Most of the worlds countries would have been conquered by the Taliban, Pakistan has been fighting a counter-insurgency for over a decade. There are still some factions of the TTP remaining, though much of their leadership has been killed; it is possible the Taliban have conducted this attack in response to a major Taliban commander death at the hands of PM. Past few days PAF has been blasting Waziristan and Taliban locations.



Yesterday Leon Penetta was showing concern for our nuclear weapons... Expect that concerns getting more real now

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## Last Hope

Tiger Awan said:


> Any news on injured???
> 
> 
> We have a production facility + Air Base
> 
> Is it confirmed they are attacking production lines??? I hope no AC is lost


Yes they have targeted the production line.


mafiya said:


> Attackers were wearing Army/ Airforce Personals Uniforms, Crossed 3 check posts and started t
> heir attacks. Penetrated into the Base.


Learnt nothing from GHQ attack.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

they have targeted the jf-17 assembling unit and reports are there there is damage to aircraft and machinery


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## Emmie

Hyperion said:


> Emmie, is there a way to watch Geo-TV online?



http://live.geo.tv/live.aspx
Bro this link only works in Pak and UAE... There are many other links available on google, I can't guarantee they are free from malware.

Try this one.. http://www.bolytv.com/geo-news.html

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## AtillaHun

Kafir terrorists.

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## Paan Singh

Impossible w/o inside involvement

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## KRAIT

Last Hope said:


> Grenades are now being used by the terrorists, hope the men, the production line and the birds are safe.
> The forces on the site are trying to attract attention to themselves to help safety of the air base and assets.


Production line can be raised, birds can be built again...just wish for safety of officers guys......

Our solidarity is with you.....I wish terrorists are taken out as soon as possible.....

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## Hyperion

mjnaushad said:


> dude i did not shave from last few days...... becareful in your words...


Ok I shouldn't laugh, but  Well, you got what I mean! I am really pissed and sad


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## SamantK

Guys im not trolling but then this is not a good news, fingers will be raised on your nuke facilities too.. Sad!

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## Mercenary

mafiya said:


> Yesterday Leon Penetta was showing concern for our nuclear weapons... Expect that concerns getting more real now



If these Taliban terrorist animals can penetrate such a secure location like an Aircraft Assembly Plant.

Then I also share Leon Panetta's concern about Pakistani Nuclear Weapons

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## A1Kaid

mafiya said:


> Yesterday Leon Penetta was showing concern for our nuclear weapons... Expect that concerns getting more real now




Penetrating nuclear sites is a whole different world, AF base is above ground. Nuclear locations is different and level of security is different. Please don't tell me you're going to entertain these thoughts.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

they are not muslims for sure , bloody dogs


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## Stealth

How these f****ing 4 10 20 kuta bilaa cross whole Pakistan with weapons @ Kamra Airbase ?? what a F**** security ... 

Now watch the performance!


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## Bratva

Last Hope said:


> Yes they have targeted the production line.
> 
> *Learnt nothing from GHQ attack*.



Plus from the PNS Mehran Base attack.... God DAMN it, Last week, Rehman Malik on TV said, Terrorists will attack the military installations, seems no body took the Intelligence seriously. Pathetic security appratus of ours

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## Psyxjen

Just saw this :O  ...

Days after speculation of the 'planned offensive' in NWA... 

Exchange of fire between the attackers and the security forces being reported... Some channels saying that there are flames visible inside, one channel reports of a fuel depot burning...

No official word from the Air Force as of yet..

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## HAIDER

But reporter are suspecting some people inside are involve in this attack. But it is still unclear. This complex has huge labor force plus spread over miles. Let's see....
This base is use to attack terrorist camps in FATA.

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## Hyperion

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> they are not muslims for sure , bloody dogs


Man these are the truest of muslims. *The RABID kind*. Unless we accept nationalism before religion, many of us can go rabid like this!

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## A1Kaid

These Taliban may have received foreign assistance.


Sometimes the problem is these Taliban bastards end up picking up NATO weaponry in Afghanistan and end up using them on PA, some factions have been emboldened. How the AF didn't stop them at three check points is remiss.

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## SamantK

A1Kaid said:


> These Taliban may have received foreign assistance.
> 
> 
> Sometimes the problem is these Taliban bastards end up picking up NATO weaponry in Afghanistan and end up using them on PA, some factions have been emboldened. How the AF didn't stop them at three check points is remiss.



Blame everyone, good going...


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## Hyperion

And yet, once again.... we are caught with our pants down... sad... very sad..... 

I hope the result of this is the total eradication of the ISLAMIC TERRORIST mindset, permeating every nook and cranny of our society.

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## AtillaHun

can someone tell me what fvkin purpose these terrorists serve? what are their aims ? Reinforcements will soon bomb the fvck out of these.


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## SHAMK9

result of the PAF strikes in Orakzai?

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## Imran Khan

SSW was on vacation ? lolz shab e qader is more important for them

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## SMC

samantk said:


> Blame everyone, good going...



What's your problem? Don't you and NATO blame others?


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

on other side it is big intelligence failure WTF is ISI doing looks sleeping .........
terrorists easily approach and destroy such vital assets

big question again on security preparedness of our intelligence and security forces ...........
now there is report that SAAB 2000 are been damaged

SAAB 2000 under attack , dude foreign role is there


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## A1Kaid

samantk said:


> Blame everyone, good going...



I'm not blaming everyone but the potential remains, all possibilities are on the table. Taliban are certainly to blame for this but does it end there is the question.


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## Phoenix89

DunyaTV reporting there might be a large group of terrorist inside the base.....Hope these bastards are taken out.... 

Dunya TV High Definition Streaming

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## Rahil khan

Lets pray to Allah that our personals and assets are unharmed. Shocking news for me.


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## z9-ec

How the @&*^# can this happen? 

WHERE is OUR SECURITY INFRASTRUCTURE!!? 

We are truly becoming a banana republic. God help us.

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## Hyperion

A1Kaid said:


> These Taliban may have received foreign assistance.
> 
> 
> Sometimes the problem is these Taliban bastards end up picking up NATO weaponry in Afghanistan and end up using them on PA, some factions have been emboldened. How the AF didn't stop them at three check points is remiss.



Why so oblivious to our own doings. There is no use crying over spilt milk. These are our OWN DOGS gone astray, they need to be put down like mad-dogs, with extreme prejudice!

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## Bratva

A1Kaid said:


> These Taliban may have received foreign assistance.
> 
> 
> Sometimes the problem is these Taliban bastards end up picking up NATO weaponry in Afghanistan and end up using them on PA, some factions have been emboldened. How the AF didn't stop them at three check points is remiss.



Serious failure of Air Force Intelligence directorate to follow up the Intelligence passed to them.... Where the heck they were able to obtain Military uniforms and badges which allowed them to cross 3 check posts

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## Emmie

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> on other side it is big intelligence failure WTF is ISI doing looks sleeping .........
> terrorists easily approach and destroy such vital assets
> 
> big question again on security preparedness of our intelligence and security forces ...........
> now there is report that SAAB 2000 are been damaged



Bro according to analyst intelligence agencies did report such threats.. But yes, its another failure.

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## Stealth

ye khali Exercise may performance karnay jogay rah gaye hain sedhi c baat hey kesi ko lagte hey tu lagay... what a **** performance of over all security from last 10 years...

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## rubyjackass

Btw guys, is anyone caught for Mehran airbase attack?


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## KRAIT

Phoenix89 said:


> DunyaTV reporting there might be a large group of terrorist inside the base.....Hope these bastards are taken out....
> 
> Dunya TV High Definition Streaming


Thanks for link.....Hope terrorists are taken out....

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

dude very unfortunate that terrorists are successful in destroying our saab 200 aircrafts , 
they are aware of it and they exactly attacked those aircrafts

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## Hyperion

AtillaHun said:


> can someone tell me what fvkin purpose these terrorists serve? what are their aims ? Reinforcements will soon bomb the fvck out of these.



I will tell you what is happening. This is exactly what is happening to Turkey now, the islamic path that the AKP is taking Turkey on... 20 more years.... welcome to the CLUB!

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## KRAIT

Guys...let blame game for later.....just share any info you all get...

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## Meengla

If Pakistanis had courageous leaders AND people then they would have made cozy, safe concentration camps for people from FATA and elsewhere and forced civilians to live there. Those who stayed behind would be bombed to the Stone Age. 
If Pakistanis had the courage leaders AND people then those who who supported the goons of the Lal Masjid would be targeted relentlessly. Non-militants with words and militants with sword. But, too bad, you will find the Lal Masjid apologetics even here.

It is still not too late. Pakistan needs a Stalin.

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## Psyxjen

These 'attackers', restraining to use a more appropriate word... entered from a village adjacent to Kamra, 'Pind Salman Makhan'.... Not that any of it matters now, they're in there...


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

terrorist still there and moving ahead after destroying saab 2000s , thats the bad news


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## SamantK

A1Kaid said:


> I'm not blaming everyone but the potential remains, all possibilities are on the table. Taliban are certainly to blame for this but does it end there is the question.



You guys have a big problem and outsiders can be helping but the infrastructure is present to get helped.. 

Remove the infra..

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## A1Kaid

Hyperion said:


> Why so oblivious to our own doings. There is no use crying over spilt milk. These are our OWN DOGS gone astray, they need to be put down like mad-dogs, with extreme prejudice!




And what do you think has been going on for the past years, heck do you even know what has been goin on the past few days. PAFs surgical strikes on Taliban positions.

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## KRAIT

Imran Khan said:


> SSW was on vacation ? lolz shab e qader is more important for them


What's shab e qader...

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## Mercenary

There is another thread about the same incident.

I suggest Mods these threads into one and Change the title to the correct airbase where the attack took place.

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## Last Hope

A1Kaid said:


> These Taliban *may* have received foreign assistance.
> 
> 
> Sometimes the problem is these Taliban bastards end up picking up NATO weaponry in Afghanistan and end up using them on PA, some factions have been emboldened. How the AF didn't stop them at three check points is remiss.



MAY is not the word to be used.

Before the recent Corps Commanders meeting, the offensive in NWA was planned but the 'Wall Street Journal' somehow got to know about it, probably from the ISAF, and leaked the news which came as a blow to our work and an early friendly warning for TTP with enough time to gear up. 

After the leak Gen Kiyani called for Corps Commanders meeting and assured that no offensive will now be carried out in hope that TTP drop their plans and after four days it was finally announced. 

Current news according to Geo, that full-scale operation has just started and 30 jets are stationed with my guess of 14 JF-17. They terrorists attacked from Pind Salman Makhni.

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## Mercenary

There is another thread about the same incident.

I suggest Mods these threads into one and Change the title to the correct airbase where the attack took place.

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## Tiger Awan

My friend from PNEC in Karachi told me that Army SSG arrived earlier than Naval SSG to deal with Mehran Base Attack but Navy said only their Commandos will do the job. Although by then the damage had been done but delaying the operation is not a good idea. Hope nothing like this happen here

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## Roybot

Its probably not as bad as the media is making it sound like. Hope there are not many casualties.

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## A1Kaid

I am requesting Mods close this thread down and if so delete all information. Help the situation by doing this.


A1

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## Emmie

Triple one brigade has reached the base..

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## Stealth

What a ****** performance.... KAMRA Airbase under attack from last 2:40 mins and now Triple brigade just arrived... AMAZING... ***** performance of security... ye kudh ko nahe daysakhtay hamko kya dengay

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

big big intelligence failure , they crossed three check posts but one one checked them , 
looks we have lost our SAABS


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## MohammadUmerkhokhar

Raat k waqt yahan sey Jets urtey hein agr Maghribi sarhad per hamla ho tou aur Maghribi Sarhad pe Amrica hi Hamla krskta hai. YEH hamla usa ney karaya hai.


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## Psyxjen

Geo is reporting that components of the '111 Brigade' have reached Kamra....

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## Mercenary

A1Kaid said:


> I am requesting Mods close this thread down and if so delete all information. Help the situation by doing this.
> 
> 
> A1



why?

we need to discuss this terrorist attack


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## mr42O

This is not first time a security clopase. There were reporters about attacks. But good news is attackers could not reach any airplane and were stopped before coming far


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## mjnaushad

High Standards of Journalism by Geo TV>>.....


Senior Sahafi Saley Hayat saying we are the one who brake this news first.......SERIOUSLY is this the right time for this BS

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## Bratva

Attack similar to Mehran Base Attack. Attackers are highly trained, their mission is to destroy High Price assets in the Base. A fuel Dump is blown up according to latest reports

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## Hyperion

A1Kaid said:


> And what do you think has been going on for the past years, heck do you even know what has been goin on the past few days. PAFs surgical strikes on Taliban positions.



Obviously not enough. Food for thought: Start harassing the all the tableeghi's and islamic parties from tomorrow, kick their children from school. Pack their women and gift them to Afghanistan as well??? How are these measures?

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## Emmie

Saleh Zafar - No terrorist could reach to any aircraft. All aircrafts are safe at least as of now.

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## Last Hope

The terrorists have been surrounded, The JF-17s are now safe and being guarded by SSG, 111 Brigade has arrived.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

security collapse , big big failure

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## Phoenix89

Is this the response of haqqani network, there were news that pak army will be conducting operations against them??
A** holes terrorist


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## Tiger Awan

KRAIT said:


> What's shab e qader...



Its one of the most important night for Muslims. Praying in it is better than 1000 months ( hence reports of officers in masjid etc )

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Emmie said:


> Saleh Zafar - No terrorist could reach to any aircraft. All aircrafts are safe at least as of now.


dear flames are there , and aircrafts are burning

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## SMC

Where are you guys reading that Saabs have been destroyed? Can't hear anything on that.


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## A1Kaid

Mercenary said:


> why?
> 
> we need to discuss this terrorist attack



Yeah right, people need to stfu. I request all Pakistani members not to post anymore on this situation.


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## blufmaster

firing has stoped............ i hope security forces have controlled the situation.......

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## Mercenary

A total intelligence failure for Pakistan.

I thought Pakistan had ISI agents in these tribal areas. Why didn't they pick up chatter that these animals were planning to attack the base and why didn't they increase security?


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## HAIDER

Its only reporter speculation about SAAB2000 . But PAF said attackers are all trap. But these ATTACKER UNABLE TO REACH ANY PLANE, ACCORDING TO PAF spokesman.


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## Last Hope

Okay good news coming now:

- 111 Brigade arrived at spot.
- SSG have sealed off the hangars, the aircrafts are safe.
- Firing has minimized

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## Mercenary

LOL....527 people are currently browing this thread. 

19 members and 508 guests

Hi Guests 

There are currently 527 users browsing this thread. (19 members and 508 guests)

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Meengla
Thorough Pro
KRAIT
HAIDER
REHAN NIAZI FALCON
Phoenix89
Pashtun Wali
AtillaHun
rubyjackass
khail007
Rahil khan
Vassnti
Bas_tum_Pak
Evil Flare
azybro


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ws-attack-kamra-air-base-4.html#ixzz23f1j42VA

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## Tiger Awan

Last Hope said:


> The terrorists have been surrounded, The JF-17s are now safe and being guarded by SSG, 111 Brigade has arrived.



111??? From capital or are they stationed there


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

dear on news channels too and i have talked to my friend there , they attacked the place where saabs were parked , those who are there can see the flames

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## AtillaHun

Hyperion said:


> I will tell you what is happening. This is exactly what is happening to Turkey now, the islamic path that the AKP is taking Turkey on... 20 more years.... welcome to the CLUB!



I hate AKP . We need to take out terrorist dogs.


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## Kobalt

Last Hope said:


> Okay good news coming now:
> 
> - 111 Brigade arrived at spot.
> - SSG have sealed off the hangars, the aircrafts are safe.
> - Firing has minimized


Thank goodness. This is horrifying and awful. My sincerest condolences.


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## Emmie

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> dear flames are there , and aircrafts are burning



Which channel is showing such footage?


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## KRAIT

^ Mercenary...not a right time.....

Let the thread be focused...

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## Mercenary

What was the 111th doing stationed here?

Its deployed in the city.


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## Stealth

111 JUST ARRIVED after 2:40 mins.....


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## A1Kaid

Don't post anymore information, do you people have any sense?

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## Mercenary

34 Members and 101 Guests.

Hi Guests. 

Please join this Forum. 

There are currently 135 users browsing this thread. (34 members and 101 guests)

Mercenary
SMC
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Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...production-line-attacked-5.html#ixzz23f2DBwl9


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## mjnaushad

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> dear on news channels too and i have talked to my friend there , they attacked the place where saabs were parked , those who are there can see the flames



First P3 Orions and now Saab...... Still some say TTP only have one objective and no foreign hand ....

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## Bratva

Unconfirmed Casualties of our Jawans report start pouring in which happened during initial wave of Attack...

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## Mercenary

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> dear on news channels too and i have talked to my friend there , they attacked the place where saabs were parked , those who are there can see the flames



Really?

Our Saabs are burning? 

These animals need to be hunted down and killed............

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Emmie said:


> Which channel is showing such footage?


not news channel , my friend there has just told me also media channels reporting about flames


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## Tiger Awan

#Goodnews terrorists were nt able to reach any of the fighter planes at the base were ambused befre they cud reach them #GeoTV #KamraAirbase

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## Emmie

No terrorist could make it to aircraft.. Guy who said this was damn sure.


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## Rahil khan

Geo TV News reporter Sallih Zafar has just informed that terrorists have failed to reach near any military planes. Lets hope its true. Lets pray our security officials shall be successful in dealing those brainless bastards.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Mercenary said:


> Really?
> 
> Our Saabs are burning?
> 
> These animals need to be hunted down and killed............


not fully sure about saab yet but sure flames are from that location where they were parked

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## Mercenary

mjnaushad said:


> First P3 Orions and now Saab...... Still some say TTP only have one objective and no foreign hand ....



Well then, lets capture these terrorists and interrogate them.

We have captured many TTP animals, and not one has confessed working for any foreign government or agency or power.

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## Mercenary

Tiger Awan said:


> #Goodnews terrorists were nt able to reach any of the fighter planes at the base were ambused befre they cud reach them #GeoTV #KamraAirbase



I heard reports of something burning.

What is burning?


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## Hyperion

Emmie said:


> No terrorist could make it to aircraft.. Guy who said this was damn sure.


Kamra is always very well protected. I just spoke... Kamra at the moment is under control.

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## Stealth

NOW THIS TIME ARMY/AIRFORCE MUST tell complete details how these 4 - 10 Foreign supported terrorist crossed the barriers! 

it's enough now.... they have no idea how Pakistani's around the world much humiliate in front of this whole world!


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## Mercenary

Hyperion said:


> Kamra is always very well protected. I just spoke... Kamra at the moment is under control.
> 
> Minhas is not doing so good, worst part have no contact there!



Oh wait. There are two seperate attacks going on?

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

dear airforce persons are accepting about damage , 
they are not telling about exact damage but damage is there ..
lets pray that flames are not of aircrafts

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## Hyde

I am just paralysed right now, shocked

I hope no security forces officer is hurt

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## manojb

You still think ISI #1 spy agency?


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## Hyperion

Tiger Awan said:


> #Goodnews terrorists were nt able to reach any of the fighter planes at the base were ambused befre they cud reach them #GeoTV #KamraAirbase



KAMRA IS SECURE

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## blufmaster

terrorist are circled , and pushed away from assembling facility..........pak army has also joined the forces

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## Stealth

Nothing is burning everything is under control.... IMO no casualty too...


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

one thing is damn sure that they targetted saabs

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## Emmie

mjnaushad said:


> First P3 Orions and now Saab...... Still some say TTP only have one objective and no foreign hand ....



Bro c'mon accept your failure.. TTP is our enemy and obviously they won't leave any stone upturned.

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## Mercenary

Stealth said:


> NOW THIS TIME ARMY/AIRFORCE MUST tell complete details how these 4 - 10 Foreign supported terrorist crossed the barriers!
> 
> it's enough now.... they have no idea how Pakistani's around the world much humiliate in front of this whole world!



Lets not start conspiracy mumbo jumbo before we have all the facts.

If USA and India are behind this then this is a declaration of war.

And why would USA and India be doing this in the first place?

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## mjnaushad

They are on the side where Saab are parked.....


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## Evil Flare

Saab surveillance planes are attacked

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## Tiger Awan

Mercenary said:


> I heard reports of something burning.
> 
> What is burning?



According to TV fire is of mid-level

There are 2 main entry areas. From one Residence and from other Technical area is near. Motherfuckers entered from where technical area is near

Geo is reporting all ACs are safe. I have no other information

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## Bratva

Stealth said:


> Nothing is burning everything is under control.... IMO no casualty too...



Stealth Sahib, Fuel Dump exploded and Casualties being reported.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

all terrorists are foreign funded and they are enemy of Islam and PAKISTAN. 
it is quite unfortunate that sympathizers are there in airforce ,

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## pak avatar

Reports coming that Saab-2000s were targetted, not the jf17ss

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## mjnaushad

Mercenary said:


> Lets not start conspiracy mumbo jumbo before we have all the facts.
> 
> If USA and India are behind this then this is a declaration of war.
> 
> And why would USA and India be doing this in the first place?



USA.... USA have nothing to do with this..... But Orions and now attacking Saab...I do see a trend.

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## Hyperion

Mercenary said:


> Oh wait. There are two seperate attacks going on?


Mate not sure... I made a mistake I think... Weren't the SAABS in Karachi?


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## Mercenary

These terrorist animals managed to blow up a fuel depot but nothing else.

All Aircraft are safe.

Geo is reporting.

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## Joe Shearer

Mercenary said:


> Lets not start conspiracy mumbo jumbo before we have all the facts.
> 
> If USA and India are behind this then this is a declaration of war.
> 
> And why would USA and India be doing this in the first place?



There is zero likelihood of India sponsoring terrorist attacks on Pakistan.

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## SamantK

Mercenary said:


> If USA and India are behind this then this is a declaration of war.
> 
> And why would USA and India be doing this in the first place?



For the kicks I guess... other wise I do not see any reason.. Mehran was an inside job, this dont know yet, hope not!

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## Mercenary

mjnaushad said:


> USA.... USA have nothing to do with this..... But Orions and now attacking Saab...I do see a trend.



I see a trend of Pakistani Security Forces getting caught time and time again with their pants down.

First GHQ, then HIT, then Mehran Airbase and now this.

I mean, why are there such major gaps in security?

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## mjnaushad

samantk said:


> For the kicks I guess... other wise I do not see any reason..* Mehran was an inside job*, this dont know yet, hope not!



And how you reached that conclusion?


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## Hyperion

Mercenary said:


> These terrorist animals managed to blow up a fuel depot but nothing else.
> 
> All Aircraft are safe.
> 
> Geo is reporting.



AWESOME... TAKE FINGERPRINTS... JAIL THEIR FAMILIES TOMORROW... EXECUTE ABOVE 18 and BELOW 65 FAMILY MEMBERS... TRUST ME NO ONE WILL EVER ATTEMPT SUCH A THING EVER AGAIN!

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## KRAIT

Joe Shearer said:


> There is zero likelihood of India sponsoring terrorist attacks on Pakistan.


Why zero likelihood of no sponsoring.....???

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## SMC

samantk said:


> For the kicks I guess... other wise I do not see any reason.. Mehran was an inside job, this dont know yet, hope not!



Oh jee, you guys accuse Pakistan of doing similar things. Can you not see your obvious hypocrisy? How do you manage to live with yourself?

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

as a nation we need to realize that militants of what ever group they are , our enemies 
they have no feelings for muslims or PAKISTANIS , 
they have self centered motives



Hyperion said:


> Mate not sure... I made a mistake I think... Weren't the SAABS in Karachi?


saabs are in kamara , 
all four saabs were stationed there

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## MJaa

PAF MINHAS AIRBASE / KAMRA AIR BASE UNDER ATTACK: UPDATES







PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base came under attack at around 2:30 AM from 9 to 10 terrorists.

Pakistan Rangers and FC has been ordered to move in to help the security force of the Pakistan Air Force at the air base.

Terrorists are using automatic weapons and hand grenades.

Terrorists have been stopped and security forces are trying to contain the situation and Pakistan Army has been called in to help PAF airbase security force.
Terrorist may be using uniforms of the PAF airbase security, but this remains unconfirmed.
FIA forensic teams has also been dispatched to the airbase to collect the evidence. 
Attack is very much similar to Mehran Base Attack. 
Terrorists are highly trained, their mission is to destroy high value assets at the Base.


*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Attack: Updates ~ Pakistan Military Review*

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## SamantK

mjnaushad said:


> And how you reached that conclusion?


 Was there no news that there were some officers involved? I think I heard, my mistake if Im wrong!

http://jang.com.pk/jang/may2011-daily/26-05-2011/main3.htm

http://www.geo.tv/5-25-2011/81752.htm

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## mjnaushad

Mercenary said:


> I see a trend of Pakistani Security Forces getting caught time and time again with their pants down.
> 
> First GHQ, then HIT, then Mehran Airbase and now this.
> 
> I mean, why are there such major gaps in security?



Yes.... No ordinary terrorist trained to blow himself up is not able to reach this level....Surely someone is training them with highest tactics available.

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## BATMAN

It is cold war!!!!

Pakistan need to respond ion equal manner.

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## Mercenary

Hyperion said:


> AWESOME... TAKE FINGERPRINTS... JAIL THEIR FAMILIES TOMORROW... EXECUTE ABOVE 18 and BELOW 65 FAMILY MEMBERS... TRUST ME NO ONE WILL EVER ATTEMPT SUCH A THING EVER AGAIN!



Its time to go Medieval on the TTP.

We need a Pakistani Hitler or Stalin to fight this war.

Its time to take off the white gloves.

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## Emmie

Hyperion said:


> Mate not sure... I made a mistake I think... Weren't the SAABS in Karachi?



No, ZDK are stationed in Karachi.

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## Ticker

Hyperion said:


> We seriously have become the laughing stock of the UNIVERSE!



We are fighting a war. If you guys think that these kind of things won't happen, you guys are living in fools paradise. Yes the place has been attacked as many more would be. We have to pull up or chin, stand tall and face it upfront instead of doing chun chun here.

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## Secur

Mercenary said:


> And why would USA and India be doing this in the first place?



Even though it isn't a good time for this discussion ...

Why shouldn't they be doing exactly that in the first place ?

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## Greenpearl

God knows who is behind this. But this is very well planned


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## Tiger Awan

they also have night visions,


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## mjnaushad

samantk said:


> Was there no news that there were some officers involved? I think I heard, my mistake if Im wrong!



Read the news again where you read......then come back....you've been corrected before on other thread so dont act innocent.


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## shanipisces2002

Hyperion said:


> Why so oblivious to our own doings. There is no use crying over spilt milk. These are our OWN DOGS gone astray, they need to be put down like mad-dogs, with extreme prejudice!


 Sir Calm down!!!
there is no need to be that much excited!!!
all knows who is behind and who is not and who are the puppets and who are the puppet masters

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## Last Hope

Okay guys, good news are coming now.

The operation is reaching the end, no aircraft destroyed, 9-10 attackers are surrounded, hangars are secured. The attack failed miserably and the only casualties faced are due to explosion of fuel depot. No death reported yet.

You may now calm down, *THE ATTACK FAILED AND MILITARY OPERATION IS NEARING IT'S SUCCESSFUL END AFTER ABOUT 2.5 HOURS.*

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## Psyxjen

Reports coming in that the attackers have been surrounded and the situation will be resolved soon...... Thank God!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Geo News is saying they have hostages.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

BATMAN said:


> It is cold war!!!!
> 
> Pakistan need to respond ion equal manner.


yep cold war and raw , mosad and cia are playing it against PAKISTAN 
and it's truth not a myth or conspiracy

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## Secur

Mercenary said:


> Its time to go Medieval on the TTP.
> 
> We need a Pakistani Hitler or Stalin to fight this war.
> 
> Its time to take off the white gloves.



Or continue leaking operation news to media so the terrorist can gear up to fight , plan their moves or flee to Afghanistan ! 

That is WSJ for you !

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

BATMAN said:


> It is cold war!!!!
> 
> Pakistan need to respond ion equal manner.



This is not Cold dude...This is war.

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## Mercenary

Last Hope said:


> Okay guys, good news are coming now.
> 
> The operation is reaching the end, no aircraft destroyed, 9-10 attackers are surrounded, hangars are secured. The attack failed miserably and the only casualties faced are due to explosion of fuel depot. No death reported yet.
> 
> You may now calm down, *THE ATTACK FAILED AND MILITARY OPERATION IS NEARING IT'S SUCCESSFUL END AFTER ABOUT 2.5 HOURS.*



Good. Now Pakistani Army should flood the area with Chloroform which will knock out the terrorists.

Then take them to some dungeon where they will be brutally interrogated. 

And then hanged by bridges with signs around their necks saying, "This is what happens to Taliban Terrorists"

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## SamantK

mjnaushad said:


> Read the news again where you read......then come back....you've been corrected before on other thread so dont act innocent.



Oh you can go to hell why was I even responding to you.. I do not have to act on an Internet forum, for gods sake!

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## SMC

Last Hope said:


> Okay guys, good news are coming now.
> 
> The operation is reaching the end, no aircraft destroyed, 9-10 attackers are surrounded, hangars are secured. The attack failed miserably and the only casualties faced are due to explosion of fuel depot. No death reported yet.
> 
> You may now calm down, *THE ATTACK FAILED AND MILITARY OPERATION IS NEARING IT'S SUCCESSFUL END AFTER ABOUT 2.5 HOURS.*



Mercenary and the bharatis will now go into labour after reading this news.

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## Secur

There are currently 179 users browsing this thread. (43 members and 136 guests)

Secur
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What is wrong ?


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## rubyjackass

^^^
Minhas and Kamra airbase are the same.

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## Leader

It look big

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## Stealth

Capture them alive .... maar maar kar ugal waoo insay kisnay bheeja hey .... AMERICAN INDIAN FUNDED TERRORIST!


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## Tiger Awan

Double Post


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## Last Hope

Mercenary said:


> Good. Now Pakistani Army should flood the area with Chloroform which will knock out the terrorists.
> 
> Then take them to some dungeon where they will be brutally interrogated.
> 
> And then hanged by bridges with signs around their necks saying, "This is what happens to Taliban Terrorists"



You have no idea what we will do to the captives. And now the operation in NWA is likely to be harder.


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## Tiger Awan

Mercenary said:


> Its time to go Medieval on the TTP.
> 
> We need a Pakistani Hitler or Stalin to fight this war.
> 
> Its time to take off the white gloves.


 
Agree time to get real, GHQ attack, Mehran Base Attack and now Kamra. But still not our War

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## Hyperion

Evil Flare said:


> Saab surveillance planes are attacked



Yara, all conflicting reports coming in. I'm on the phone and they're telling me from Kamra that there is no damage to AC, however, the shitty online news sources are saying something else!


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## pk_baloch

Threat alerts:


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## Mercenary

SMC said:


> Mercenary and the bharatis will now go into labour after reading this news.



Typical brainless response.

Why would I be unhappy if Pakistani Army is successful in killing these terrorist animals?

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## MJaa

Initial news suggest that the terrorists have failed to reach the area where aircrafts of the Pakistan Air Force were parked due to action of the security forces.


*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Attack: Updates ~ Pakistan Military Review*


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## Imran Khan

bach gaay yaar 


now move saab away from cites

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## Mercenary

BATMAN said:


> It is cold war!!!!
> 
> Pakistan need to respond ion equal manner.



And who shall we target?

To me, this looks like some colonel or captain who sympathized with the Taliban, gave them inside plans to attack this facility.

Same thing happened in PNS Mehran Base

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## Bratva

Last Week Rehman Malik warned that Terrorists have completed their Recce and will strike on Eid.

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## mjnaushad

samantk said:


> Oh you can go to hell why was I even responding to you.. I do not have to act on an Internet forum, for gods sake!



You and your fellows will have enough time to troll later on.....so get the F off .....

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## Agni5000

Pakistan should call NATO support. They can send 2-3 helicaptor gunship and flush out every one.


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## Joe Shearer

SMC said:


> Mercenary and the bharatis will now go into labour after reading this news.



What is the meaning of that?

It is astonishing that in the dying hours of a serious terrorist incident, some of us have the time to troll.

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## iPhone

Attacks like this should have been expected after announcing the operation and north waziristan. All such location should have been on high alert. These vermins would want to target the jf-17s. They've all come to die but if they destroy or damage even one fighter aircraft it's mission accomplished for them.

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## Leader

A report sent from inside: Kamra airbase till 15 min ago still under attack by assailants in uniform. Attack ongoing since last 2.5 hrs.


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## Mercenary

I think we should set up fake bases all over and put bunkers in then with machine guns and then trick these taliban animals into attacking them.

Like mice to a mouse trap.

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## Bratva

Pathetic Media Reporting,,, Awacs which were given by America was the target of terrorists.


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## Meengla

Since there are two separate posts going on..I posted to one. But here it is again, in more direct way:
ANYONE who was even emotionally supportive of the goons of the Lal Masjid is at least partially responsible for this attack on Kamra and for much else.
I pride in saying that I have supported PPP--the only party which, while in opposition, came out in full support of Musharraf THEN about the Lal Masjid Operation and continues to do so now.
We need have our 'Qibla' right.

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## Last Hope

Just saying guys, Kamra is the base from where F-16s carry out air strikes in NWA and this base was going to participate in the upcoming offensive.

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## Hyperion

mjnaushad said:


> You and your fellows will have enough time to troll later on.....so get the F off .....


Yara no need. Let's focus on the TTP PIGS and pray for our soldiers.

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## BATMAN

Mercenary said:


> Lets not start conspiracy mumbo jumbo before we have all the facts.
> 
> If USA and India are behind this then this is a declaration of war.
> 
> And why would USA and India be doing this in the first place?



They have their men in Parliament, who will continue to protect terrorists.

No terrorist have been ever punished. All are released.

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## SHAMK9

Mercenary said:


> Its time to go Medieval on the TTP.
> 
> We need a Pakistani Hitler or Stalin to fight this war.
> 
> Its time to take off the white gloves.


about time, too much blood and lives have been lost because of them, im shocked that army isnt even thinking of going on full war with them, finish them already

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## Tiger Awan

Security guards in Mecca never join in prayer when on duty. I hope similar practice exists at r sensitive installations vulnerable to attack

+ 

Is there any better thing than Jihad??? Saving your country is Jihad

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## Hyperion

Last Hope said:


> You have no idea what we will do to the captives. And now the operation in NWA is likely to be harder.



Well, I know. But I am proposing an amendment to that and go thermonuclear on their families as well. That is where it hurts!


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## Last Hope

Tiger Awan said:


> Security guards in Mecca never join in prayer when on duty. I hope similar practice exists at r sensitive installations vulnerable to attack
> 
> +
> 
> Is there any better thing than Jihad??? Saving your country is Jihad



Security guards were on duty. Rest of the base was in prayers.

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## SamantK

mjnaushad said:


> You and your fellows will have enough time to troll later on.....so get the F off .....



for you go back I have posted some links..


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## Imran Khan

manojb said:


> You still think ISI #1 spy agency?



yes they are because they informed it 6 days before attack 


*Threat alerts: Terrorists planning attack on PAF base*
By Asad Kharal
*Published: August 10, 2012*

Two TTP teams plotting bombings before Eid, say intelligence reports. PHOTO: AFP/FILE
LAHORE: 

The Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) is planning attacks on the Pakistan Air Force Base and other military and security establishments in Lahore before Eid, according to intelligence reports received by the Home Department.

The intelligence reports, which have been forwarded to the inspector general of Punjab Police and other officials concerned, stated that at least two TTP teams had made arrangements for attacks in revenge for the killing of Ghaffar Qaiserani alias Saifullah, an alleged TTP leader, in a shootout with the police at Dera Ghazi Khan on August 1.

According to one report, members of the Qari Yasin Group, initially a part of the Harkatul Mujahideen, which started in the Punjab and was later based in Miranshah in North Waziristan, were planning to attack the PAF base and installations near the PAF Market on Ramazan 27 or 28 (August 21 or 22).

Another stated that a team led by Qari Aslam alias Ustad of the Moavia Group, also based in Miranshah, was also planning terrorist attacks towards the end of Ramazan. Their main target was likely to be the PAF base, or other security establishments like the offices of the Inter Service Intelligence (ISI), Military Intelligence (MI), Intelligence Bureau or Counter Terrorism Department. Reconnaissance of the targets has already been done, the report states.

It stated that the plots had been financed by the kidnapping of some doctors from Taunsa Sharif, Dera Ghazi Khan, which had netted Rs2.5 million in ransom, enough to buy a black Honda City car, weapons, explosives and four suicide vests. The car has been rigged with explosives and is being kept at an unknown location in Kabirwala tehsil, Khanewal district, stated the report. The group had also selected targets for assassinations and kidnapping in the Punjab as well, it added.

The intelligence reports stated that the Badami Bagh fruit market blasts on August 1 and an IED blast in an Elite Force vehicle on August 2 were carried out by the TTP in revenge for the killing of Qaiserani. Further retaliatory attacks on public places and government establishments were possible, the reports stated.

Another report revealed a plot to blow up an oil tanker along the route used to supply NATO forces in Afghanistan. It stated that an IED had been found on an oil tanker at Taheemabad on the Layyah-Kot Addu Road, in the jurisdiction of Kot Sultan police station, on August 7. The driver noticed the device placed above the tyres and alerted local authorities. Police and civil defence officials defused the device before it exploded

The reports have been forwarded to the capital city police officer and the provincial heads of the intelligence agencies. A circular issued by the Home Department to law enforcement agencies reads:

Security arrangements at establishments of LEAs [law enforcement agencies] and vulnerable public places need to be beefed up. The present situation warrants close coordination among all the intelligence agencies for sharing information and helping in nabbing the terrorists before they succeed in their nefarious designs. It is required that preventive measures be adopted.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 10th, 2012.

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## pk_baloch

*Intelligence had already reported that TTP has planned to attack on PAF BASE *

The Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) is planning attacks on the Pakistan Air Force Base and other military and security establishments in Lahore before Eid, according to intelligence reports received by the Home Department.
The intelligence reports, which have been forwarded to the inspector general of Punjab Police and other officials concerned, stated that at least two TTP teams had made arrangements for attacks in revenge for the killing of Ghaffar Qaiserani alias Saifullah, an alleged TTP leader, in a shootout with the police at Dera Ghazi Khan on August 1.
According to one report, members of the Qari Yasin Group, initially a part of the Harkatul Mujahideen, which started in the Punjab and was later based in Miranshah in North Waziristan, were planning to attack the PAF base and installations near the PAF Market on Ramazan 27 or 28 (August 21 or 22).
Another stated that a team led by Qari Aslam alias Ustad of the Moavia Group, also based in Miranshah, was also planning terrorist attacks towards the end of Ramazan. Their main target was likely to be the PAF base, or other security establishments like the offices of the Inter Service Intelligence (ISI), Military Intelligence (MI), Intelligence Bureau or Counter Terrorism Department. Reconnaissance of the targets has already been done, the report states.
It stated that the plots had been financed by the kidnapping of some doctors from Taunsa Sharif, Dera Ghazi Khan, which had netted Rs2.5 million in ransom, enough to buy a black Honda City car, weapons, explosives and four suicide vests. The car has been rigged with explosives and is being kept at an unknown location in Kabirwala tehsil, Khanewal district, stated the report. The group had also selected targets for assassinations and kidnapping in the Punjab as well, it added.
The intelligence reports stated that the Badami Bagh fruit market blasts on August 1 and an IED blast in an Elite Force vehicle on August 2 were carried out by the TTP in revenge for the killing of Qaiserani. Further retaliatory attacks on public places and government establishments were possible, the reports stated.
Another report revealed a plot to blow up an oil tanker along the route used to supply NATO forces in Afghanistan. It stated that an IED had been found on an oil tanker at Taheemabad on the Layyah-Kot Addu Road, in the jurisdiction of Kot Sultan police station, on August 7. The driver noticed the device placed above the tyres and alerted local authorities. Police and civil defence officials defused the device before it exploded
The reports have been forwarded to the capital city police officer and the provincial heads of the intelligence agencies. A circular issued by the Home Department to law enforcement agencies reads:
&#8220;Security arrangements at establishments of LEAs [law enforcement agencies] and vulnerable public places need to be beefed up. The present situation warrants close coordination among all the intelligence agencies for sharing information and helping in nabbing the terrorists before they succeed in their nefarious designs. It is required that preventive measures be adopted.&#8221;
Published in The Express Tribune, August 10th, 2012.

Threat alerts:


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## IndoUS

The big question that should be asked it how the hell did they pass check post. All army bases require Identification cards and other security measures for entry. So for them to simply get past easily is a security breach and the security officials should be brought in for questioning for this.

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## Hyperion

samantk said:


> for you go back I have posted some links..


Not now mate. I beg you.. Not the right time. We can all beat each other up later.

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## Mercenary

Time for a Secular Military Dictator to take power in Pakistan and wage war on these terrorist rats.

Ever since the Civilian Gov't has taken charge, there has been non-stop terrorism in Pakistan.

Its obvious, the Civilian Gov't is too busy trying to slime each other than pay attention to national security matters.

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## Bratva

It's not the failure of ISI.... ISI did warned beforehand, that's why Rehman Malik last week said to Media that, Terrorists have completed the recce of several important places and will likely to attack military installations on EID. Failure falls upon Air Force Intelligence Directorate who failed to follow up the intelligence reports.

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## Stealth

The main point is what the hell security official said "The security level on the base was not @ alert"

banda inko pochay PAKISTAn kay halaat baray koi ZABARDAST ja rahay hain ???????


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Mercenary said:


> I think we should set up fake bases all over and put bunkers in then with machine guns and then trick these taliban animals into attacking them.
> 
> Like mice to a mouse trap.



Ain't gonna work.


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## Mercenary

Imran Khan said:


> yes they are because they informed it 6 days before attack
> 
> 
> *Threat alerts: &#8216;Terrorists planning attack on PAF base&#8217;*
> By Asad Kharal
> *Published: August 10, 2012*
> 
> Two TTP teams plotting bombings before Eid, say intelligence reports. PHOTO: AFP/FILE
> LAHORE:
> 
> The Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) is planning attacks on the Pakistan Air Force Base and other military and security establishments in Lahore before Eid, according to intelligence reports received by the Home Department.
> 
> The intelligence reports, which have been forwarded to the inspector general of Punjab Police and other officials concerned, stated that at least two TTP teams had made arrangements for attacks in revenge for the killing of Ghaffar Qaiserani alias Saifullah, an alleged TTP leader, in a shootout with the police at Dera Ghazi Khan on August 1.
> 
> According to one report, members of the Qari Yasin Group, initially a part of the Harkatul Mujahideen, which started in the Punjab and was later based in Miranshah in North Waziristan, were planning to attack the PAF base and installations near the PAF Market on Ramazan 27 or 28 (August 21 or 22).
> 
> Another stated that a team led by Qari Aslam alias Ustad of the Moavia Group, also based in Miranshah, was also planning terrorist attacks towards the end of Ramazan. Their main target was likely to be the PAF base, or other security establishments like the offices of the Inter Service Intelligence (ISI), Military Intelligence (MI), Intelligence Bureau or Counter Terrorism Department. Reconnaissance of the targets has already been done, the report states.
> 
> It stated that the plots had been financed by the kidnapping of some doctors from Taunsa Sharif, Dera Ghazi Khan, which had netted Rs2.5 million in ransom, enough to buy a black Honda City car, weapons, explosives and four suicide vests. The car has been rigged with explosives and is being kept at an unknown location in Kabirwala tehsil, Khanewal district, stated the report. The group had also selected targets for assassinations and kidnapping in the Punjab as well, it added.
> 
> The intelligence reports stated that the Badami Bagh fruit market blasts on August 1 and an IED blast in an Elite Force vehicle on August 2 were carried out by the TTP in revenge for the killing of Qaiserani. Further retaliatory attacks on public places and government establishments were possible, the reports stated.
> 
> Another report revealed a plot to blow up an oil tanker along the route used to supply NATO forces in Afghanistan. It stated that an IED had been found on an oil tanker at Taheemabad on the Layyah-Kot Addu Road, in the jurisdiction of Kot Sultan police station, on August 7. The driver noticed the device placed above the tyres and alerted local authorities. Police and civil defence officials defused the device before it exploded
> 
> The reports have been forwarded to the capital city police officer and the provincial heads of the intelligence agencies. A circular issued by the Home Department to law enforcement agencies reads:
> 
> &#8220;Security arrangements at establishments of LEAs [law enforcement agencies] and vulnerable public places need to be beefed up. The present situation warrants close coordination among all the intelligence agencies for sharing information and helping in nabbing the terrorists before they succeed in their nefarious designs. It is required that preventive measures be adopted.&#8221;
> 
> Published in The Express Tribune, August 10th, 2012.



And why wasn't anything done about it?

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## iPhone

Let's see how this attack effects the upcoming north waziristan operation.

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## rubyjackass

Last Hope said:


> Just saying guys, Kamra is the base from where F-16s carry out air strikes in NWA and this base was going to participate in the upcoming offensive.


I don't think so. According to reports, only JF-17s(around 30 of them) are present in the base.

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## KRAIT

What's the update.....dunya telling they have been surrounded....anything else???

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## mjnaushad

samantk said:


> Was there no news that there were some officers involved? I think I heard, my mistake if Im wrong!
> 
> Jang Group Online
> 
> PNS Mehran base commander changed - GEO.tv



And where it says it was an Inside job???? Or he was accused and found guilty of helping terrorist...... This is the very same discussion we had on other thread WITH YOU..... 


He was removed to investigation can go without any "conflict of interest".

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## Hyperion

Last Hope said:


> Security guards were on duty. Rest of the base was in prayers.



WTF were they praying for? Promotion? I don't want to comment further on the sick mindset of our current officers. They are there to defend the country not pray! ****** ******

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## Emmie

Target was to destroy Saab, I hope Saabs are save.

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## SMC

iPhone said:


> Let's see how this attack effects the upcoming north waziristan operation.



Should only make us start the operation faster.


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## Imran Khan

Mercenary said:


> And why wasn't anything done about it?




its pakistan until things happen eveyone sleep tight . rather then go for prayer they should stay active for security but then i am kaffir for them 

are not saabs are at chaklala ?

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## Secur

Mercenary said:


> And why wasn't anything done about it?



Did you forget the name of our country and its system , this time mate ?


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## SHAMK9

Stealth said:


> The main point is what the hell security official said "The security level on the base was not @ alert"
> 
> banda inko pochay PAKISTAn kay halaat baray koi ZABARDAST ja rahay hain ???????


calm down and please respond in english

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## Hyperion

rubyjackass said:


> I don't think so. According to reports, only JF-17s(around 30 of them) are present in the base.


Nopes. F16's are also based there. TRUST ME


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Prayers are with Pakistan Airforce .. and Armed forces we are with you SQUASH the bastard....ss

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## ark80

Militants storm Kamra Airbase - geo.tv 
if you guys and senior members look closely there also j-10 parked and one of them with pak flag


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## Hyperion

Emmie said:


> Target was to destroy Saab, I hope Saabs are save.


From what I am hearing, there is no loss of aircraft.

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## iPhone

Mercenary said:


> And who shall we target?
> 
> To me, this looks like some colonel or captain who sympathized with the Taliban, gave them inside plans to attack this facility.
> 
> Same thing happened in PNS Mehran Base



Yup, not out of the realm of possibility.

Reports coming of heavy loss of life on armed forces trying to protect defence assets. Hope it's not true.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I dont think its gonna take much time now...Sunshine is not that far away.

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## IndoUS

Hyperion said:


> Nopes. F16's are also based there. TRUST ME


 
Mate, do you know if the PAF has commando or special forces unit based in its bases for protection?

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## Psyxjen

People, please... We hardly have any confirmed information apart from the fact that the airbase has been attacked..... 

All these channels just shouting the slightest bit of information they can get their hands on from anywhere... We CANNOT blame anything as of now... save it for later. If you know that men with guns are going to barge in... they still will have guns when they do... do not call it an intelligence failure or something...yet.


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## ark80

the picture in the link


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## Greenpearl

Mercenary said:


> Its time to go Medieval on the TTP.
> 
> We need a Pakistani Hitler or Stalin to fight this war.
> 
> Its time to take off the white gloves.



Really ?  I would say someone like salahudin al ayubi, a man by his words, brutal but fair. Enough is enough now!


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## Roybot

ark80 said:


> Militants storm Kamra Airbase - geo.tv
> if you guys and senior members look closely there also j-10 parked and one of them with pak flag



That photo is probably from China, not PAF.



> JF-17 thunder manufactured by both china and Pakistan plus the chinese newest fighter jet J-10 at some airbase in china. Courtesy of sino-defence and pakistaniforces.

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## Hyde

*It is being reported that there are 9 terrorists inside the complex and they have been surrounded by the Army commandos*

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## Patriot

No Aircraft Harmed
-

ATTOCK: Militants attacked Kamra Airbase in Attock in the wee hours of Thursday, Geo News reported.

According to sources, the militants stormed the base from Pind Salman Makhan.

It was an organized attack and the firing from both sides is continuing. Army has been called in to control the situation. The militants also hurled hand grenades, the sources added.

Pak Army 111-brigade squad has arrived at the base to take part in the operation.

The attack is similar to that of Karachi Naval Base, PNS Mehran which took place on May 22, 2011. The militants had killed several Naval personnel besides destroying two P-3C Orion aircraft.

Kamra is an airbase where assembling of JF-17 is carried out. Normally, more than 30 aircraft remain parked at the base at a time.

*The sources further said the militants failed to reach the aircraft due to prompt action of the security forces.*

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## Mercenary

Secur said:


> Did you forget the name of our country and its system , this time mate ?



I thought after so many terrorist attacks in highly sensitive areas such as GHQ, HIT, PNS Mehran, Lahore Police Academy, that Pakistan would have learned its lesson by now.

I mean what will it take? Taliban storming Islamabad and taking over Presdient's House and holding him hostage and broadcasting on National TV?

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## Bratva

American AWACS was the target of terrorists...... Media is reporting


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## iPhone

SMC said:


> Should only make us start the operation faster.



Well yeah, they made there move, now go and clean it up.


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## Imran Khan

ark80 said:


> Militants storm Kamra Airbase - geo.tv
> if you guys and senior members look closely there also j-10 parked and one of them with pak flag




lolz its jFT


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## Last Hope

rubyjackass said:


> I don't think so. According to reports, only JF-17s(around 30 of them) are present in the base.


 
Wrong. Kamra has about 14 JF-17s, 1 Saab-2000, 2-3 C-130s, a few F-16s and Mirages.



Hyperion said:


> WTF were they praying for? Promotion? I don't want to comment further on the sick mindset of our current officers. They are there to defend the country not pray! ****** ******


A faceplam is less for you and your posts. No wander the moderators and administrators love to keep you banned.

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## Hyperion

IndoUS said:


> Mate, do you know if the PAF has commando or special forces unit based in its bases for protection?


Yes. But all are trained by SSG. Every year there are LIVE exercises where the SSG tries to get into the base ANNOUNCED. I'll tell you later!

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Mercenary said:


> I think we should set up fake bases all over and put bunkers in then with machine guns and then trick these taliban animals into attacking them.
> 
> Like mice to a mouse trap.


dear those who attack have complete information , 
and where and how to attack , 
they even know which target to damage

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## Imran Khan

mafiya said:


> American AWACS was the target of terrorists...... Media is reporting



our media is very good in fun  since when we have E-2 santry

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## Hyperion

Last Hope said:


> Wrong. Kamra has about 14 JF-17s, 1 Saab-2000, 2-3 C-130s, a few F-16s and Mirages.
> 
> 
> A faceplam is less for you and your posts. No wander the moderators and administrators love to keep you banned.


What is wrong in what I said? I am saying they should be on their posts! Not abandon it for ANYTHING!


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## Emmie

Hyperion said:


> From what I am hearing, there is no loss of aircraft.



Yeah, experts say there's no such loss, but still I am concern.

They focused on the area where saabs were present.

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## Mercenary

mafiya said:


> American AWACS was the target of terrorists...... Media is reporting



I guess that rules out USA being behind this. Looks like our Frankeinstein monster has run amok.

time to pull its plug.

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## BATMAN

Stealth said:


> Capture them alive .... maar maar kar ugal waoo insay kisnay bheeja hey .... AMERICAN INDIAN FUNDED TERRORIST!



Why we weren't allowed that before?

I keep saying do not handover any terrorist to interior ministry...


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## Imran Khan

IndoUS said:


> Mate, do you know if the PAF has commando or special forces unit based in its bases for protection?



yes search abut SSW special services wing of PAF

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## mjnaushad

None of our conventional military gear is no threat to USA even if we go to war with them....They have much better tech and they wont give a F to these assets if they want to attack.....

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## iPhone

Reports coming they picked this particular night cuz its the 27th of ramazaan and they expected security lapse or not heavy security. Don't know how right or wrong they were.

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## Hyperion

Zakii said:


> *It is being reported that there are 9 terrorists inside the complex and they have been surrounded by the Army commandos*


The AC are safe! And the morons are encircled.

Now question: HOW THE HELL DID THEY PENETRATE SO DEEP? FROM THE ROAD SIDE?

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## Mercenary

BATMAN said:


> Why we weren't allowed that before?
> 
> I keep saying do not handover any terrorist to interior ministry...



Has any captured TTP ever confessed of being funded by USA and India?

Just curious

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## Emmie

I can't understand why our security agencies do not heed to intelligence reports.. Lack of proper co-ordination there for sure.

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## Evil Flare

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/58076630521126624429514.jpg/


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## Mercenary

Evil Flare said:


> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/58076630521126624429514.jpg/



Looks eerily similar to PNS Mehran base attack pictures.

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## MJaa

At the time of attack one company of the Special Service Wing (SSW) was present at the airbase and two additional companies have reached to assist in the operation.

Anti-Terror unit of Pakistan Police and Paramilitary forces have deployed at the outer parameter of the airbase.

Terrorists have been pinned down by the commandos of the Special Service Wing (SSW).

Operation against the terrorist is being conducted by the Special Operations Force of the Pakistan Air Force, Special Service Wing (SSW).


*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Attack: Updates ~ Pakistan Military Review*

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## Meengla

Meengla said:


> Since there are two separate posts going on..I posted to one. But here it is again, in more direct way:
> ANYONE who was even emotionally supportive of the goons of the Lal Masjid is at least partially responsible for this attack on Kamra and for much else.
> I pride in saying that I have supported PPP--the only party which, while in opposition, came out in full support of Musharraf THEN about the Lal Masjid Operation and continues to do so now.
> We need have our 'Qibla' right.



I don't want to sound like a broken record. But it is important to understand and expose a mindset. I am not ruling out 'foreign' elements. Of course, targeting aircrafts which are for external enemies, makes it suspicious.
BUT... it is the mindset which needs to be expose.
In my 2009 visit to Pakistan. Unfortunately it was for the funeral of very dear one. One of the visitors to the funeral home was from up north. The conversation chanced upon the Lal Masjid Operation. He condemned Musharraf roundly. When I asked about as to why some people would take over a school, a mosque, and even put arms in a mosque, the 'Lathy Brigade' of women roaming Islamabad, his reply was 'Yeah, that was a mistake'. I retorted, not just a 'mistake' but 'terrorism'.
No numbers of Chinese Massage Parlours, Brothels etc could justify the behavior of these thugs. But we have their sympathizers even in this forum!
It is the mindset we have to defeat. Pakistan doesn't and shouldn't go the Kemal Ataturk route. But Pakistanis shouldn't go to the route of the Talibans, the Ayatollahs, the Jamaatis either.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

they have targeted saabs , 
motive behind it was to destroy our surveillance aircrafts , 
how is gona benefit from it , surely our enemies 
and who was most concerned about these surveillance aircrafts , 
they attacked saabs and jf-17 factory ..

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## Donatello

Evil Flare said:


> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/58076630521126624429514.jpg/


 
This is not Kamra, but rather PAF base faisal.

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## Imran Khan

if its far from parking of saab they should transfer it somewhere else just takeoff and go  even JF-17s too all fly and go then terrorist will say we are trolls

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## HAIDER

According to analyst they are very well equipped with stolen military asset from NATO forces. But it is intelligence negligence, they knew about this attack during sahari but , who they are going to blame.

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## BATMAN

Mercenary said:


> I guess that rules out USA being behind this. Looks like our Frankeinstein monster has run amok.
> 
> time to pull its plug.



What do you mean our?

Who is feeding and arming these perpetrators?

Do you not know the safe havens of the terrorists of Pakistan?

Every one knows where Brahamdagh Bugti live today and where he lived before and from which airport he use to travel to India.


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## Last Hope

Hyperion said:


> What is wrong in what I said? I am saying they should be on their posts! Not abandon it for ANYTHING!



The guards and officers on duty were on posts, do you expect every officer to be on boundary fences?

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## Emmie

Evil Flare said:


> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/58076630521126624429514.jpg/



fake pic... No one is allowed to go that close to boundary wall.

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## SMC

Mercenary said:


> Has any captured TTP ever confessed of being funded by USA and India?
> 
> Just curious



Indian RAW Give us Targets in Pakistan - Pakistani Taliban Admits - YouTube


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Mercenary said:


> Looks eerily similar to PNS Mehran base attack pictures.


fire near control tower , 
mean aircrafts are damaged for sure .............

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## Hyperion

Emmie said:


> I can't understand why our security agencies do not heed to intelligence reports.. Lack of proper co-ordination there for sure.



Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand!

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## Secur

Last Hope said:


> A faceplam is less for you and your posts. No wander the moderators and administrators love to keep you banned.



Really ? What exactly should the personnel have done on the duty ?  Pray and let the terrorist inflict damage worth billions ? ... Duty comes first !

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## Last Hope

Everything under control, ISI knew this since 6 days due to intelligence reports. 

Highlights:

- 30 Aircraft on the base, Saab-2000, C-130, F-16s, JF-17 and Mirage are all SECURED.
- 111 Brigade, SSW, SSG, FC and Rangers have taken control of base and 9-10 terrorists are surrounded.
- Attack failed miserably!
- No deaths on Pakistani side yet, though there are injuries due to explosion of fuel depot.
- The attackers were in PA and PAF uniform.
- The personnel on base were on Lay-atul-Qadr prayers.

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## Stealth

I think Pakistan Airforce should move their aircrafts @ saudia bases


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

SMC said:


> Indian RAW Give us Targets in Pakistan - Pakistani Taliban Admits - YouTube


truth and hypocrites call us terrorists


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## pk_baloch

..........................................................

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## Secur

Last Hope said:


> The guards and officers on duty were on posts, do you expect every officer to be on boundary fences?



No , we need them to be vigilant to thwart such attacks specially when things worse than this have occurred in the past ! They got into the base just by wearing army uniforms , can you believe that ?  No Id's nothing , crossed 3 checkposts !

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## Mercenary

BATMAN said:


> What do you mean our?
> 
> Who is feeding and arming these perpetrators?
> 
> Do you not know the safe havens of the terrorists of Pakistan?
> 
> Every one knows where Brahamdagh Bugti live today and where he lived before and from which airport he use to travel to India.



Why would USA sell us these planes and then train and hire these people to go attack and destroy them.

At the very moment that Pakistan is planning to launch an offensive against them.

Does that make any sense?

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Last Hope said:


> Everything under control, ISI knew this since 6 days due to intelligence reports.
> 
> Highlights:
> 
> - 30 Aircraft on the base, Saab-2000, C-130, F-16s, JF-17 and Mirage are all SECURED.
> - 111 Brigade, SSW, SSG, FC and Rangers have taken control of base and 9-10 terrorists are surrounded.
> - Attack failed miserably!
> - No deaths on Pakistani side yet, though there are injuries due to explosion of fuel depot.
> - The attackers were in PA and PAF uniform.
> - The personnel on base were on Lay-atul-Qadr prayers.


no dear damage is there


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## Mercenary

So far the latest is this:
- Terrorists entered base from north and west and over-powered the guards while the rest of the staff were in prayers.
- They managed to blow up a fuel depot but are now pinned down outside the area where the planes and other sensitive items are kept.
- SSG and 111th Brigade has been send in and there are 9-10 terrorists holed up. Currently a ferocious firefight is going on.
- No Aircraft were damaged.

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## BATMAN

Imran Khan said:


> if its far from parking of saab they should transfer it somewhere else just takeoff and go  even JF-17s too all fly and go then terrorist will say we are trolls



There are all signs terrorists have advance weapons incl. SAMs. Flying a/c can be risky.

They might even have settelite guided missiles.

I'm afraid this was a deception or rehearsal of some thing big.

It is about time we declare emergency,,, no one is safe in Pakistan.


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## Last Hope

Secur said:


> Really ? What exactly should the personnel have done on the duty ?  Pray and let the terrorist inflict damage worth billions ? ... Duty comes first !


You expect the pilots, engineers, air men, commanding officer, base commander, commandant to be at the check post? THe security was alert that is why this attack failed. 


REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> fire near control tower ,
> mean aircrafts are damaged for sure .............



No damage to any aircraft. They are all safe.

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## Patriot

This is why an operation is needed in North Waziristan.These people will take no operation as weakness and target us...what the mullah idiots fail to realize is that these terrorists have done more harm to Pakistan then India or any other external country.India could only dream about blowing Pakistani P3C Orions in the ground.


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## SMC

Mercenary said:


> Why would USA sell us these planes and then train and hire these people to go attack and destroy them.
> 
> At the very moment that Pakistan is planning to launch an offensive against them.
> 
> Does that make any sense?



DO you think it has anything with the fact that they don't want us to have nukes?


----------



## BATMAN

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> no dear damage is there



How do you know? and what is your report?


----------



## Psyxjen

Don't want to say something definitive but it does appear from what we know right now that this attack did not cause the level of damage we've all been fearing... Thank God!.... We should all calm down just a bit as we await new developments.


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## Hyperion

Last Hope said:


> The guards and officers on duty were on posts, do you expect every officer to be on boundary fences?


Do you know that since 1999 it has been proposed time and AGAIN to secure the boundry wall running adjacent to the MAIN ROAD?


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## Secur

Last Hope said:


> Everything under control, ISI knew this since 6 days due to intelligence reports.



Yet it did happen , the terrorists managed to enter the base ! Seriously , mate ...


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## Imran Khan

Last Hope said:


> Everything under control, ISI knew this since 6 days due to intelligence reports.
> 
> Highlights:
> 
> - 30 Aircraft on the base, Saab-2000, C-130, F-16s, JF-17 and Mirage are all SECURED.
> - 111 Brigade, SSW, SSG, FC and Rangers have taken control of base and 9-10 terrorists are surrounded.
> - Attack failed miserably!
> - No deaths on Pakistani side yet, though there are injuries due to explosion of fuel depot.
> - The attackers were in PA and PAF uniform.
> - The personnel on base were on Lay-atul-Qadr prayers.



i don't want to surrounded then i want to kill the dogs or arrest them


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

BATMAN said:


> There are all signs terrorists have advance weapons incl. SAMs. Flying a/c can be risky.
> 
> They might even have settelite guided missiles.
> 
> I'm afraid this was a deception or rehearsal of some thing big.
> 
> It is about time we declare emergency,,, no one is safe in Pakistan.


dude damage is severe , 
enough is enough


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## Imran Khan

any ary geo live stream ????????????


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## Secur

Last Hope said:


> You expect the pilots, engineers, air men, commanding officer, base commander, commandant to be at the check post? THe security was alert that is why this attack failed.



No , I just want the security to be vigilant enough or tomorrow even I would enter the base wearing an army uniform for God's sake ! Yeah , the attack failed but it could have been avoided at all in the first place by tightening the security ...

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## Imran Khan

now if even one of them escape it will be slap . same was happen in mehran time


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## mjnaushad

UAE and Pakistan can watch geo live from geo.tv

Geo News Live | Geo Tv Live | Watch Geo News | Live Geo Streaming

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## Secur

Imran Khan said:


> any ary geo live stream ????????????



Are you serious there would be a live stream from the base ?


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## SMC

Imran Khan said:


> any ary geo live stream ????????????



Geo News Live Streaming

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## rubyjackass

Imran Khan said:


> if its far from parking of saab they should transfer it somewhere else just takeoff and go  even JF-17s too all fly and go then terrorist will say we are trolls



I wonder why they did not get this simple idea. Mehran mein bhi yahi kar sakte the.

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## SamantK

Imran Khan said:


> i don't want to surrounded then i want to kill the dogs or arrest them


Dont kill them, learn their ways, information is wealth!


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## Imran Khan

Secur said:


> Are you serious there would be a live stream from the base ?



news channel sir jee not base


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## Hyde

Last Hope said:


> Everything under control, ISI knew this since 6 days due to intelligence reports.
> 
> Highlights:
> 
> - 30 Aircraft on the base, Saab-2000, C-130, F-16s, JF-17 and Mirage are all SECURED.
> - 111 Brigade, SSW, SSG, FC and Rangers have taken control of base and 9-10 terrorists are surrounded.
> - Attack failed miserably!
> - No deaths on Pakistani side yet, though there are injuries due to explosion of fuel depot.
> - The attackers were in PA and PAF uniform.
> - The personnel on base were on Lay-atul-Qadr prayers.



Moreover 

- They are 9 terrorists in the complex

- They were located before reaching the target point (claimed to be Saab 2000 AWACS) so they are surrounded by the Army commandos and the entire area has been cordoned off.

- The exchange of firing has been stopped/reduced significantly (perhaps some of them are dead by now)

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## Donatello

North Waziristan operation...lol

The chief of Air Staff will wake up in the morning, tour the airbase in his BMW, that's all that will happen.

No heads will roll, no one will resign from their post, Pakistan will be laughing stock of the world, while the life continues for the rest of us.

*Sigh*

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## Juice

Time to start mining the perimeter walls.

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## Mercenary

SMC said:


> DO you think it has anything with the fact that they don't want us to have nukes?



So you mean to tell me that USA hired these guys and trained them and send them to Pakistan to attack Pakistani bases to make it look like to the world that Pakistan is an unstable country and cannot be trusted to keep nuclear weapons safe.

And then USA along with India will use their special forces to penetrate Pakistan and steal 100 Nuclear Weapons and then bomb and blow up our Nuclear Reactor in Kahuta.

Do I have it right so far?

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## Hyperion

Zakii said:


> Moreover
> 
> - They are 9 terrorists in the complex
> 
> - They were located before reaching the target point (claimed to be Saab 2000 AWACS) so they are surrounded by the Army commandos and the entire area has been cordoned off.
> 
> - The exchange of firing has been stopped/reduced significantly (perhaps some of them are dead by now)



Seriously, what's the infatuation with AEW&C? Does TTP plan to have an Air Force soon?



Juice said:


> Time to start mining the perimeter walls.



That seriously was suggested 15 years ago. NO JOKES!

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## Hyde

*5 Terrorists has been killed so far*

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## mjnaushad

6 Terrorist killed

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## imrankhan7250

Kamra Air base under Attack. God bless our soldiers. May Allah the Almighty give them strength to break the neck of these terrorist and their supporters. Amen


----------



## Mercenary

Hyperion said:


> Seriously, what's the infatuation with AEW&C? Does TTP plan to have an Air Force soon?



Its economic damage.

The LTTE in Sri Lanka did the same thing when they targetted the Airport in Colombo blowing up Sri Lankan Planes.

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## Imran Khan

samantk said:


> Dont kill them, learn their ways, information is wealth!



these dogs are useless suiciders they have no info dear

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## rubyjackass

5-6 terrorists dead. GEO reporting.

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## Evil Flare

5 to 6 terrorist scumbags are dead

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## Imran Khan

*5-6 of dogs killed by SSG* geo news

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## Emmie

If we can't protect our assets then we have no right to keep them with us. No need to waste tax payers money.

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## Secur

Juice said:


> Time to start mining the perimeter walls.



Time to start an operation immediately ... No need to wait until Eid ... Get the boots on the ground , mobilize the machinery , pull in air cover and kill all Taliban and ask questions later !

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## Hyde

Hyperion said:


> Seriously, what's the infatuation with AEW&C? Does TTP plan to have an Air Force soon?



*They were not able to reach to any of the high value targets.* Expect the chapter closed soon...

Death to the terrorists!!!

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## Secur

Imran Khan said:


> *5-6 of dogs killed by SSG* geo news



dogs ? right ?


----------



## Stealth

Last Hope said:


> Everything under control, ISI knew this since 6 days due to intelligence reports.
> 
> Highlights:
> 
> - 30 Aircraft on the base, Saab-2000, C-130, F-16s, JF-17 and Mirage are all SECURED.
> - 111 Brigade, SSW, SSG, FC and Rangers have taken control of base and 9-10 terrorists are surrounded.
> - Attack failed miserably!
> - No deaths on Pakistani side yet, though there are injuries due to explosion of fuel depot.
> - The attackers were in PA and PAF uniform.
> - The personnel on base were on Lay-atul-Qadr prayers.



F16 @ kamra ??? wrong Information... F16's are not stationed @ kamra bhai

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## pk_baloch

THIS IS BECAUSE OPENING OF THE NATO SUPPLIES ....AMERICA HAS STARTED ITS MISSION THROUGH TTP AGAIN...


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## Donatello

mjnaushad said:


> 6 Terrorist killed



Lol...they came as a cricket team?

6 got bowled, 4 more to go!

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## soul hacker

they attack on minhas base, i think it north to main complex and geo reporting that there is pedestrian path for local peoples


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## Secur

Zakii said:


> *They were not able to reach to any of the high value targets.* Expect the chapter closed soon...
> 
> Death to the terrorists!!!



I am afraid sir , that is not the way it will / should go ...

Indeed !


----------



## Hyperion

Any more scumbags died.. Please keep updating ONE BY ONE.. gives me the **** ****  DIE DIE DIE *** ****


----------



## Donatello

Zakii said:


> They were not able to reach to any of the high value targets. *Expect the chapter closed soon...*
> 
> Death to the terrorists!!!



Not so soon.....another day and we will have another cowardly attack!


----------



## Secur

rubyjackass said:


> 5-6 terrorists dead. GEO reporting.



Live stream right ? Since our channels are banned in India ...


----------



## Hyde

Secur said:


> I am afraid sir , that is not the way it will / should go ...
> 
> Indeed !



Of course, Time to launch another operation against the terrorists...

Just fed up of them - Kill them all

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## SamantK

Imran Khan said:


> these dogs are useless suiciders they have no info dear



You can kill them after asserting that, cant you?


----------



## Secur

Donatello said:


> Not so soon.....another day and we will have another cowardly attack!



Exactly , my friend ... The chapter shouldn't close down this time ...


----------



## mjnaushad

rubyjackass said:


> 5-6 terrorists dead. GEO reporting.



From where are you watching Geo TV....... I thought indians dont like Pakistani TV (as per vinod)


----------



## Donatello

mjnaushad said:


> From where are you watching Geo TV....... I thought indians dont like Pakistani TV (as per vinod)



Trust me bro.......Indian trolls on this forum can find anything about Pakistan better than RAW or agent Vinod......lol


----------



## Hyperion

Balochi said:


> THIS IS BECAUSE OPENING OF THE NATO SUPPLIES ....AMERICA HAS STARTED ITS MISSION THROUGH TTP AGAIN...


OH COME ON.... YOU WANT TO BE DICTATED BY THE TERRORISTS WHAT THE PAKISTANI STATE CAN AND CAN NOT DO?

NEVER THOUGHT YOU WERE FROM THE SAME STOCK OF PEOPLE WHO JUSTIFY EVERYTHING ON ISLAMISTS BEHALF

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Imran Khan said:


> these dogs are useless suiciders they have no info dear


well said they are useless , 
they are there to kill us on the name of ISLAM ...........


----------



## Secur

Zakii said:


> Of course, Time to launch another operation against the terrorists...
> 
> Just fed up of them - Kill them all



Why are they even waiting until Eid to be honest ?

The army can secure Dir , Swat , Buner , South Waziristan and ensure that the militancy is wiped from those areas ( factually speaking ) but cant do the same elsewhere in Tribal belt  How come !

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## mjnaushad

Donatello said:


> Trust me bro.......Indian trolls on this forum can find anything about Pakistan better than RAW or agent Vinod......lol



Not agent vinod....The member vinod....He claimed Indians dont watch any Pakistani show at all.... And dont even know the name of any show... Anyway its other topic...


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## rubyjackass

Looks like people assumed the worst after watching the destruction of P3 Orions. This time the attack seemed to have failed completely. According to GEO, explosions were heard initially. Now there is just firing which is dying down. So I guess we can relax now and wait for the cleanup.

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## Mercenary

Balochi said:


> THIS IS BECAUSE OPENING OF THE NATO SUPPLIES ....AMERICA HAS STARTED ITS MISSION THROUGH TTP AGAIN...



I am confused.

Why would the TTP who are trained and armed by USA be attacking their masters convoys?

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## Secur

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> well said they are useless ,
> they are there to kill us on the name of ISLAM ...........



Yeah , waging Jihad against muslims since attacking the Americans effectively is beyond their capacity !

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

one aircommando injured , 
mean they penetrated very deep,


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## SamantK

mjnaushad said:


> Not agent vinod....The member vinod....He claimed Indians dont watch any Pakistani show at all.... And dont even know the name of any show... Anyway its other topic...



to burst your bubble, someone back in the posts, gave the link for geo tv live feed..


----------



## MJaa

Five to Six terrorists have been killed in action

Pakistan Air Force denies the presence of the JF-17 Thunder fighter jets at the air base

Fire at the PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base has also been controlled


*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Attack: Updates ~ Pakistan Military Review*


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

COINCIDENCE THAT ZARDARI is in SAUDI ARABIA once again did he knew about this attack from US friends


----------



## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Secur said:


> Yeah , waging Jihad against muslims since attacking the Americans effectively is beyond their capacity !


they don't have nuts to attack americans , 
they are happy to kill Muslims


----------



## SamantK

The fire is also controlled, no news of the damage


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## imrankhan7250

Only Way to stop these kinds of attacks within Pakistan is to authorise Pakistan army to (even in a symbolic terms ) to attack any country who is supporting these terrorists. This will at least create a threshold. These enemies of Islam and Pakistan can only be stopped by cutting them in two. May God the Almighty give our soldiers the strengths to break the necks of these enemies of Islam and Pakistan. Amen


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

mjnaushad said:


> From where are you watching Geo TV....... I thought indians dont like Pakistani TV (as per vinod)



I will tell you a secret...I think he is just using a thing called Computer connected to World Wide Web and watching it through a process called Live Stream.....SssssssHhhhhhh...Dont tell anyone..Ok?

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## numan-khan

bad news for pakistan .


----------



## newdelhinsa

Militants attack Pakistani airbase at Kamra | DAWN.COM


----------



## Emmie

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> one aircommando injured ,
> mean they penetrated very deep,



Comeon, do you think commandos were standing besides aircrafts?


----------



## mjnaushad

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I will tell you a secret...I think he is just using a thing called Computer connected to World Wide Web and watching it through a process called Live Stream.....SssssssHhhhhhh...Dont tell anyone..Ok?



Thanks...... You high?


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

6 Terrorist died Well Done pakistan forces ... to kill the insects ... time to launch a counter strike on Afghanistan

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## SamantK

One body of terrorist recovered..


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## Mercenary

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> COINCIDENCE THAT ZARDARI is in SAUDI ARABIA once again did he knew about this attack from US friends



All Pakistani leaders go to Saudi Arabia for the last 10 days of Ramadan to pray The Night of Power prayer in Makkak to ask forgiveness for the their crimes they have committed.

So everyone knew he won't be here.

And what would have that bozo Zardari done in the first place?

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## Patriot

imrankhan7250 said:


> Only Way to stop these kinds of attacks within Pakistan is to authorise Pakistan army to (even in a symbolic terms ) to attack any country who is supporting these terrorists. This will at least create a threshold. These enemies of Islam and Pakistan can only be stopped by cutting them in two. May God the Almighty give our soldiers the strengths to break the necks of these enemies of Islam and Pakistan. Amen


Replace Country with North/South Waziristan.

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## Emmie

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> 6 Terrorist died Well Done pakistan forces ... to kill the insects ... time to launch a counter strike on Afghanistan



Please clean the areas within Pakistan at first..

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## rubyjackass

mjnaushad said:


> From where are you watching Geo TV....... I thought indians dont like Pakistani TV (as per vinod)


 That's why I am watching it on net


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## Mercenary

rubyjackass said:


> That's why I am watching it on net



give link


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## Imran Khan

\guys fuel storage is near to wall just look google earth JF-17 production line is 1KM away and C-130 is more them 1km away not sure were is sabb in hanger

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

mjnaushad said:


> Thanks...... You high?



You are welcome..No its Thursday and i dont drink in the morning.


----------



## Ticker

Emmie said:


> If we can't protect our assets then we have no right to keep them with us. No need to waste tax payers money.



Can you protect your own a$$-ets and if you can, then spend your tax money to clean'em.


----------



## Solomon2

Not too bright to announce an offensive before it starts, yes? Now there is a perfect excuse not to begin the operation in NWaz, yes? Or will the P.A. instead announce renewed determination to eliminate militants, rather than retreat?


----------



## MJaa

Some member of the security force have been wounded during the operation out of which one is seriously wounded .
Rate of firing has decreased considerable compared to the first three hours


*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Attack: Updates ~ Pakistan Military Review*


----------



## BATMAN

Rehman Malik, Zardari and Sharif all are out of country.
I'm sure they knew of the incident and left the country cautionary measure of any un-expected outfall.


----------



## Stealth

*I think COAS must do their job properly rather thn telling the people of Pakistan about bad economy and the political issues @ his every speech!*

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## rubyjackass

One security personnel in critical condition. Everything else is BS on news now. Even the news hosts have changed shifts. I am going to bed now. gn guys.

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## Imran Khan

don't worry guys nothing gonna happen idiots failed at all now


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## Mercenary

BATMAN said:


> Rehman Malik, Zardari and Sharif all are out of country.
> I'm sure they knew of the incident and left the country cautionary measure of any un-expected outfall.



They are all in Saudi Arabia. they left to pray night of power prayer in makkah.

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## Hyperion

Everyone making excuses on behalf of the security apparatus.

Please try to understand, that under ideal and focussed security scenario, no terrorist should even be allowed within 50km of such sensitive bases!

So, yes, the first ones to be blamed are our guys for such a monumental lapse of security. We need to scrutinize ourselves before blaming ANYONE else.

Tomorrow someone get's close to CHASHNUP and there is a meltdown. Who will we blame? Then death with rain down on all of us!

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## Hyde

*It is possible that every terrorist has been killed by now. There is no exchange of firing since a while so lets wait for the official statement*


----------



## rubyjackass

^^^ link for GEO
GEO
If you cannot see it, watch dunya news
Live Streaming Dunya News TV , Dunya TV Pakistan

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## Secur

Solomon2 said:


> Not too bright to announce an offensive before it starts, yes? Now there is a perfect excuse not to begin the operation in NWaz, yes? Or will the P.A. instead announce renewed determination to eliminate militants, rather than retreat?



Yeah , tell that to the Wall Street Journal and NATO insiders ! 

Do you type under the influence ? Isn't it logical that its more of an excuse to launch an operation in NW now they are targeting military installations ! 

When has the PA ever retreated , you troll ?

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## Ticker

Stealth said:


> *I think COAS must do their job properly rather thn telling the people of Pakistan about bad economy and the political issues @ his every speech!*



ha ha ha

It is not the COAS who protects the Kamra air base. It is the air force's responsibility.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Mercenary said:


> They are all in Saudi Arabia. they left to pray night of power prayer in makkah.


truth they have nothing to do with PAKISTAN and PAKISTANI people , 
they are here only to rule us like slaves , 
to loot us and shift their property in foreign accounts , 
no problem let PAKISTAN burn , they have their properties secured

news that operation is over now


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## Imran Khan

*JOB DONE as per geo news dead dog is not looking pakistani national .*

JF-17 was 1.7km away from bastards

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

one terrorists whose body has been found is foreigner by looks


----------



## mian abaid

we already had 2 incidents like this (mehran and ghq). this time its unbearable.


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## Secur

Hyperion said:


> Please try to understand, that under ideal and focussed security scenario, no terrorist should even be allowed within 50km of such sensitive bases!



Indeed , most of the members here are for obvious reasons happy for the failed terrorist attack yet they fail to understand the shortcomings of our security and instead are praising them , how did that even happen in the first place if the agencies warned of a attack weeks ago ?

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## pk_baloch

Mercenary said:


> I am confused.
> 
> Why would the TTP who are trained and armed by USA be attacking their masters convoys?




BECAUSE TO DO SUCH TYPES OF ATTACKS THROUGH TTP ..AMERICA WILL GET THE REASON THAT PAKISTAN'S ASSETS AND NUCLEAR ASSETS ARE NOT IN THE SAFE HANDS......

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## Patriot

All terrorists killed with no casualties on Pakistani Side (1-2 Commandos injured) - No damage done to any aircrafts.

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## Ticker

Hyperion said:


> Everyone making excuses on behalf of the security apparatus.
> 
> Please try to understand, that under ideal and focussed security scenario, no terrorist should even be allowed within 50km of such sensitive bases!
> 
> So, yes, the first ones to be blamed are our guys for such a monumental lapse of security. We need to scrutinize ourselves before blaming ANYONE else.
> 
> Tomorrow someone get's close to CHASHNUP and there is a meltdown. Who will we blame? Then death with rain down on all of us!



Agreed, introspection is needed. But the 50 km is a lot of territory to secure a facility. 

Securing such facilities is an specialist job. I am sure we will get better and better as we learn.

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## Pak47

This is the news story GEO is giving

Militants storm Kamra Airbase - geo.tv

The image of it.. shows this.. 







Now if im not mistaken.. the Jet in the middle of the picture.. next to the JF-17 is a J-10..

You can tell by the Air intake under the pilots seat.


----------



## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Imran Khan said:


> *JOB DONE as per geo news deab dog is not looking pakistani national .*


yep they were foreigners , 
according to my source 5 bodies found all were foreigners

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## Hyperion

Everyone can go to sleep content that there was no serious loss of equipment and life. Just one semi-critical member of the armed forces. May Allah grant him speedy recover. 

7 ASSWIPES SENT TO MEET THEIR BELOVED IN AFTERLIFE(HMMMMM.....AFTERHELL)!

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## BATMAN

Pakistan army do not have proper off road vehicles.
We don't have night vision and attack helis.
We all know all terrorist attacks take place during night or continue over night.

It is time to shift army installations and offices away from crowded lands and build electronic surveillance perimeter.

Park all assets some where in Baluchistan and mark 5km perimeter, as no go area.


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## Patriot

* All terrorists killed with no casualties on Pakistani Side (1-2 Commandos injured) - No damage done to any aircrafts. *

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## Secur

Patriot said:


> All terrorists killed with no casualties on Pakistani Side (1-2 Commandos injured) - No damage done to any aircrafts.



Thank God !


----------



## Mercenary

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> one terrorists whose body has been found is foreigner by looks



Please not that again.

Last time some dead TTP were caught, some grainy pictures of their penis showed it to be uncircumcised and that was proof enough that they are Hindu Mercenaries.

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## Emmie

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> one terrorists whose body has been found is foreigner by looks



Thanks to Afghanistan..


Anyways, attack has been completely nullified.. Good news.

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## Imran Khan

C-130 fly from base


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## Secur

Hyperion said:


> 7 ASSWIPES SENT TO MEET THEIR BELOVED IN AFTERLIFE(HMMMMM.....AFTERHELL)!



Yeah and they will be startled to see the exact opposite place from what they were told by the local Mullah ! No virgins , bastards just fire and fire !

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## SamantK

overall a tragedy averted, will read the official statement after getting up..

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## Donatello

Mercenary said:


> Please not that again.
> 
> Last time some dead TTP were caught, some grainy pictures of their penis showed it to be uncircumcised and that was proof enough that they are Hindu Mercenaries.



No no, this time they were carrying their passports and Visa(s)








(Sarcasm intended)

Looks can be deceiving.


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## Evil Flare

5 Days old story 


Threat alerts:


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## Hyperion

Secur said:


> Yeah and they will be startled to see the exact opposite place from what they were told by the local Mullah ! No virgins , bastards just fire and fire !



LOL...... Just a lot of other frustrated guys with HUGE ****.... OUCH!!!!!

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Emmie said:


> Thanks to Afghanistan..
> 
> 
> Anyways, attack has been completely nullified.. Good news.


afghanistan is breeding ground for enemies of PAKISTAN 
enough is enough

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## soul hacker

NASRUM MINALLAHI WA FATHUN QAREEB

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## Mercenary

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> afghanistan is breeding ground for enemies of PAKISTAN
> enough is enough



Afghanistan thinks the same way


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## BATMAN

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> one terrorists whose body has been found is foreigner by looks



Most likely Rehman Malik issued them visa! or they come from some convenient border and their sponsor state.


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## mian abaid

same comments were there when mehran and GHQ operation
were finished. our institutions should work out with their security plans


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## BATMAN

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> one terrorists whose body has been found is foreigner by looks



Most likely Rehman Malik issued them visa! or they come from some convenient border and their sponsor state.


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## Evil Flare

Mercenary said:


> Afghanistan thinks the same way



Afghanistan is not a country .. just a name left ..

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## Last Hope

Mercenary said:


> They are all in Saudi Arabia. they left to pray night of power prayer in makkah.


They are in KSA for OIC meeting.


Ticker said:


> ha ha ha
> 
> It is not the COAS who protects the Kamra air base. It is the air force's responsibility.



I would appreciate if some members here respect me and my opinions, if they don't, then at-least stay mature and professional.

The latests are, operation has finally ended according to media (according to me it was over about 20 minutes ago). 
This operation was a huge failure, either trust me or the media, ISI got to know about this six days ago and the SSW was on alert. As soon as they breached, the SSW on duty rushed to them hence operation was ended within 3 hours with external support after 2 hours. (111 Brig).

Mehran base took more time and more damage than this attack. Everything but fuel depot which was right next to perimeter is safe, hence how would one claim this to be failure of Intelligence or SSW? They did their work, the attack was certain and they couldn't engage the terrorists outside base (as civilians roam there freely and attackers were in military uniforms). Grow some mind and think neutral. (PS. I would again make a central thread in some days like ISI failure thread and them prove how this was not a military/intelligence failure. You ought to look from all aspects.



Mercenary said:


> They are all in Saudi Arabia. they left to pray night of power prayer in makkah.


They are in KSA for OIC meeting.


Ticker said:


> ha ha ha
> 
> It is not the COAS who protects the Kamra air base. It is the air force's responsibility.



I would appreciate if some members here respect me and my opinions, if they don't, then at-least stay mature and professional.

The latests are, operation has finally ended according to media (according to me it was over about 20 minutes ago). 
This operation was a huge failure, either trust me or the media, ISI got to know about this six days ago and the SSW was on alert. As soon as they breached, the SSW on duty rushed to them hence operation was ended within 3 hours with external support after 2 hours. (111 Brig).

Mehran base took more time and more damage than this attack. Everything but fuel depot which was right next to perimeter is safe, hence how would one claim this to be failure of Intelligence or SSW? They did their work, the attack was certain and they couldn't engage the terrorists outside base (as civilians roam there freely and attackers were in military uniforms). Grow some mind and think neutral. (PS. I would again make a central thread in some days like ISI failure thread and them prove how this was not a military/intelligence failure. You ought to look from all aspects.

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## soul hacker

picture from kamra


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## Hyperion

soul hacker said:


> NASRUM MINALLAHI WA FATHUN QAREEB


No buddy. It goes like this.

Better weapons + better training + superior intelligence + nationalism + adherence to scientific principles + absolute loyalty = Success *WE DONT NEED NO SHITTY ADDITIONAL HELP*

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## BATMAN

Mercenary said:


> Afghanistan thinks the same way



While Pakistan regime does not think this way.. its just a comment of common man.


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## Emmie

soul hacker said:


> picture from kamra



Its a fake picture dude.. Do you think people were allowed to go that close to boundary walls?


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## Last Hope

soul hacker said:


> picture from kamra



ENOUGH WITH THIS PICTURE ALREADY. THIS IS PN MEHRAN.


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## Evil Flare

search operation on the way ...


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## Patriot

Threat alerts: &#8216;Terrorists planning attack on PAF base&#8217;
By Asad Kharal
*Published: August 10, 2012*
The Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) is planning attacks on the Pakistan Air Force Base and other military and security establishments in Lahore before Eid, according to intelligence reports received by the Home Department.
Threat alerts:


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## Imran Khan

one of best thing is operation never take many hours .really nice job from SSG-SSW

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## Hyperion

Good night guys and gals. At-least I can sleep relaxed now.

I have decided to grant myself a holiday tomorrow

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## soul hacker

Last Hope said:


> ENOUGH WITH THIS PICTURE ALREADY. THIS IS PN MEHRAN.



dont know saw on social network but i think it's from kamra air base


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## KRAIT

From the way I see it, damage would have been more if there was no former warning.....no matter how good the attack you plan, if enemy has a slightest idea of expecting it in nearby time, the response reaction is reduced significantly....

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## BATMAN

Thanks Last Hope for the good news.

All security offices need to shift to no man land, GHQ shall move to some hill or tunnel.


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## regular

AtillaHun said:


> Isit taliban that is attacking ? PAF should crush these terrorists.


The local Talibans don't have such resources to carryout such attacks. There is secret foreign hand behind all this devil game. Everybody already knows that.......

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## Imran Khan

*lolz PAF say there was no JF-17 on base its mean they already moved for rise third squadron *

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## KRAIT

Have we started the speculation and blame game......let me know....

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## soul hacker

KRAIT said:


> Have we started the speculation and blame game......let me know....



CHOR KI DARI MAI TINKA

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## The Deterrent

Although this attack was repelled, it will have VERY SERIOUS implications on our Nuclear Weapons Program. 

Propaganda Storm about Nukes coming soon.

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## Evil Flare

C130 is flying above the base ...


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## Emmie

*C-130 doing search operation.*


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## SHAMK9

AhaseebA said:


> Although this attack was repelled, it will have VERY SERIOUS implications on our Nuclear Weapons Program.
> 
> *Propaganda Storm about Nukes coming soon*.


times of india would have the first orgasm

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## hunter_hunted

What a great timing by Leon Panetta of saying "That nukes can fall in hands of Terrorists". I 110% believe that foreigners are behind it. Pakistan should hit them hard now for once and for all and use this incident to put pressure on NATO-AISAF to DO MORE on their side. Because killed terrorist is TAJIK or other central Asian nation.


Salute to Security wing for saving the assets.


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## SamantK

SHAMK9 said:


> times of india would have the first orgasm


 more than ToI, US will have an orgasm..


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## Last Hope

soul hacker said:


> dont know saw on social network but i think it's from kamra air base


Google PNS Mehran base attack pictures.


Imran Khan said:


> *lolz PAF say there was no JF-17 on base its mean they already moved for rise third squadron *


Actually, the third squadron fighters were sent to No.7 on April 5, 2012, and they were latter called back due to pilot conversion training problems. Now the third squadron will be No.15 in Kamra according to Think Tanks on forum.
*
(PS. THE FIRST BODY IS IDENTIFIED. FOREIGN PERSON, THE NATIONALITY IS NOT SPECIFIED).*


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

now what is situation of damage , 
how much damage is reported in confirmed in reports


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## Meengla

I am going to sign off with personal observation, hopefully, related to this.
In late 2011 when I visited Karachi I was privileged to be granted a tour of the Pakistani Naval Base near/at Keamari, along with a few very close family members. Of course we passed all security background checks. Our entry to the Base was not particularly hard at all. We were allowed to take pictures of the staff and the warships but requested not to share--and I will not, not that it would matter at all if someone wants to do the harm. What I observed was dedication but also 3rd world standards everywhere. The poor loaders/laborers coming from villages. The ostentatious displays of gun-toting 'guards'. Our host was a young navy official. VERY nice, professional and polite. He pointed toward a mass of land with a village on it, less than half a mile and said: That are our biggest worries. Against that was directed a few guards and whatnot. It didn't take much to realize that, even with some underwater protective measures, it wouldn't take much for a determined enemy to inflict some major damage to, what could be called, Pakistan's Pearl Harbor.
And this is not just Pakistan. But probably most of the 3rd World. Any determined enemy with significant local ideological and logistical support as well as, presumably, foreign support could continue to bleed Pakistan. Today's attackers may have not gained all the goals. May be tomorrow is another target.
[Typed fast--can review later. Good bye for now]

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## hunter_hunted

Geo News is Hell bent on spreading the negative propaganda and demoralizing Pakistani Nation. Just listen the words from female news caster .

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

they are targeting our vital assets , 
afghanistan is providing them with all information about our vital locations 
they are trained there by RAW , MOSAD , CIA amd RAM to attack PAKISTAN


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## Mercenary

The only features that can make a person look foreign in Pakistan is if they have African or Oriental features.

Besides that, Pakistanis have diverse looks and can pass for other races such as White, Spanish, or Middle Eastern.

In other words, if these terrorists don't look like Black or Chinese, then you cannot say that they are foreign.


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## Emmie

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> now what is situation of damage ,
> how much damage is reported in confirmed in reports



Alhamdulillah no damage. Some personnel are injured, please pray that they recover quickly.

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## Last Hope

The operation is complete, I have given the updates and my views (and faced bashing). My work here is done, this thread moving towards destruction.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> yep they were foreigners ,
> according to my source 5 bodies found all were foreigners



probably some a-holes from across the border....if things were my way, these aircrafts would be doing sonic booms over Kabul right about now....over karzai's house

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## adnan.haroon.siddiqui

Alhamdulillah it is over now. Pak forces has done it again. Long Live Pak forces. Long live Pakistan.

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## MJaa

Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is using one of its C-130 transport aircraft equipped with the FLIR Systems Star Safire III EO/IR sensor ball to track the movement of terrorists.

*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Terrorist Attack: Post Attack Situation ~ Pakistan Military Review*

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## Abu Zolfiqar

adnan.haroon.siddiqui said:


> Alhamdulillah it is over now. Pak forces has done it again. Long Live Pak forces. Long live Pakistan.



yes i'd say they did a good job......im sure our enemies and ill-wishers are slamming their fists on the table now, flustered that their little nefarious schemes arent going so well

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## AtillaHun

They should have kept one these terrorists alive and got intelligence to hunt the rest !

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## Lightning Soul

As Far as i got to know 9 Terrorists wearing Armed Forces Uniforms entered the base. The security forces responded, an air defense personnel has been seriously injured.No Damage done to any aircraft stationed there. Fire-brigade and Ambulance and other rescue teams have already reached at the spot.A fuel depot exploded due to terrorists grenades attack.Main Targets were Saab-2000 AWACS and JF-17 Thunder production line factory. 6-7 Terrorists have already been killed. I hope atleast one is caught alive by our security forces so that further intel could be gathered about the planning of the attack. So it looks like this attack by the terrorists has been failed miserably unlike previous similar attack on PNS base Mehran.Thanks to our security forces  but the point of concern is that they shouldn't be allowed to enter the base at all.
*BTW I don't know much about defense but even a lay-man like me can figure out that why would some rag-tag militants need to target Surveillance Aircrafts like P3C Orion or Saab 2000 specifically unless its been assisted or sponsored by some FOREIGN hand*

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## Free Soul

No damage confirmed, yet... 
Reports that 5 of them gunned down... 
One dead terrorist been taken away.


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## AtillaHun

PAF should hunt the rest as soon as possible so they cant get back up.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> probably some a-holes from across the border....if things were my way, these aircrafts would be doing sonic booms over Kabul right about now....over karzai's house


yep brothers looks so ,
that place is breeding ground for anti PAKISTAN conspiracies and terrorists


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## Hyde

*2 security forces have been killed (Shaheed)

Inna lilla hai wa inna ellaihi raji'oon*

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## KingMamba

So basically attack failed and a few casualties on Pakistan's side let us pray for their speedy recovery.

RIP to the Shaheed security forces.


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## xyxmt

samantk said:


> Guys im not trolling but then this is not a good news, fingers will be raised on your nuke facilities too.. Sad!



there is a difference between an air base and nuke facility, why dont you try to go near our nuke facility and find out for your self. we had open access to our military facilities all the time and its not possible to fortify an entire airbase


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## KingMamba

AtillaHun said:


> PAF should hunt the rest as soon as possible so they cant get back up.



Operation should still be on regardless of this provocation. TTP and other goons are on edge, this was to suspected nobody said it was going to be easy.



xyxmt said:


> there is a difference between an air base and nuke facility, why dont you try to go near our nuke facility and find out for your self. we had open access to our military facilities all the time and its not possible to fortify an entire airbase



Give it a couple of days this will still be used as an excuse even though the attack was a failure.


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## SHAMK9

why is PAF waiting till the end of eid? , just give TTP their eidi (a$$ whoppin) ASAP!!!


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## KingMamba

SHAMK9 said:


> why is PAF waiting till the eid ends, just give TTP their eidi (a$$ whoppin) ASAP!!!



That is what the TTP probably want. The longer it takes more of their militants will be demoralized and might surrender.

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## Ahmad Riaz Khan

well at moment agency nt giving official statement abt who were behind attackers ... but they saying that The body of attacker which is covered is explosive is found and attacker seems like foreigner... reports are more saying that Two Jawan are Shaheed .. Nt confirmed ... And Situation is now undercontrol ... ANd Pakistan Airforce Flying Saab Over the Air Base now ...


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## shanipisces2002

Hyperion said:


> OH COME ON.... YOU WANT TO BE DICTATED BY THE TERRORISTS WHAT THE PAKISTANI STATE CAN AND CAN NOT DO?
> 
> NEVER THOUGHT YOU WERE FROM THE SAME STOCK OF PEOPLE WHO JUSTIFY EVERYTHING ON ISLAMISTS BEHALF


am reading through all of this i am thinking are you anti islamist or ur liberalist?


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## KingMamba

Ahmad Riaz Khan said:


> well at moment agency nt giving official statement abt who were behind attackers ... but they saying that The body of attacker which is covered is explosive is found and attacker seems like foreigner... reports are more saying that Two Jawan are Shaheed .. Nt confirmed ... And Situation is now undercontrol ... ANd Pakistan Airforce Flying Saab Over the Air Base now ...



Thanks for the update, welcome to the forum.


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## regular

Hyperion said:


> Good night guys and gals. At-least I can sleep relaxed now.
> 
> I have decided to grant myself a holiday tomorrow


No man! U can't relax now. The cunning enemy alwayz attacks whenever U are feeling safe and relaxing. U shold be on high alert all the times.........

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## KingMamba

Hyperion stop being so over dramatic bro the attack failed.

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## Solomon2

Imran Khan said:


> don't worry guys nothing gonna happen idiots failed at all now


How could we know if they succeeded?


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## Emmie

Security forces now must develop proper co-ordination, there's a clear fault line in co-ordination. Security forces must analyse all intelligence leads.

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## KRAIT

soul hacker said:


> CHOR KI DARI MAI TINKA


Koi maine plan nahi kiya tha........shukar manaoo....

Don't bring us unless you have a proof.....

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## Hyperion

KingMamba93 said:


> Hyperion stop being so over dramatic bro the attack failed.


LOL - Yeah, all MF packed and sent to hell!

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

PAKISTAN is attacked , 
PAKISTANIS are killed , 
our property is destroyed ............ we suffer in every way 
still we are labelled as terrorists , still america is skeptical about our role , 
still india is innocent and we are evil

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## Dance

Express tribune is claiming that one plane was damaged


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## Hyperion

shanipisces2002 said:


> am reading through all of this i am thinking are you anti islamist or ur liberalist?



HMMMMM..... Actually, I'm a very religious person. I just don't follow the screwed up interpretation of Salafists. 

Call me whatever. I love my country and it's people first, EVERYTHING ELSE is secondary.

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## Ahmad Riaz Khan

Thanks Alot  ... The thing i was thinking that why so called TTP want to attack Saab ? i mean without Strong intelligence support it was nt possible to get so much accurate information . Indian are involved in this


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## MJaa

One of the four Saab-2000 Erieye AEW&C (airborne early warning and control aircraft) which was on surveillance mission at the time of attack has been order to stay airborne for now.


*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Terrorist Attack: Post Attack Situation ~ Pakistan Military Review*


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## scorpionx

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> PAKISTAN is attacked ,
> PAKISTANIS are killed ,
> our property is destroyed ............ we suffer in every way
> still we are labelled as terrorists , still america is skeptical about our role ,
> still india is innocent and we are evil


Before jumping on India, why dont you wait for few days and let the investigation to be completed. When your own Intel had alredy sniffed the attack, dont you think its just nonsense to blame India again and again?Or the attackers, just being foreign national (God knows how do you come to this conclusion so early) is enough evidence for India to be behind this ghastly suicidal mission?
Anyways, RIP to the brave soldiers who lost their lives and just burn the masterminds of this attack to hell. God save India and Pakistan.Peace.


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## Secur

Solomon2 said:


> How could we know if they succeeded?



In your right mind , are you ? The attackers were all killed and there was no damage to the aircraft stationed there ... What is your definition of " success " ?


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## Hyperion

KRAIT said:


> Have we started the speculation and blame game......let me know....


LOL - Not yet! From tomorrow. Let me know of the date Indians vote for a showdown on the forum.


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## KRAIT

Ahmad Riaz Khan said:


> Thanks Alot  ... The thing i was thinking that why so called TTP want to attack Saab ? i mean without Strong intelligence support it was nt possible to get so much accurate information . Indian are involved in this


Have you ever wondered if these terrorists got two time lucky keeping in mind that no internal help was provided and it was done with help of foreign intelligence, don't you think a well coordinated Special forces team with latest gadgets, weapons, best training can get and destroy these important assets. 

So think before you start pointing fingers at coz either you are blaming wrong people or you are ignoring the security lapses.


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## Secur

Hyperion said:


> Call me whatever. I love my country and it's people first, EVERYTHING ELSE is secondary.



Yeah , my friend you took the Musharraf's ground situation based ideology of " Pakistan First " very seriously ... Good for you , I wish same for 180 million Pakistanis still stuck in delusions of Ummah ...

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## Solomon2

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> PAKISTAN is attacked ,
> PAKISTANIS are killed ,
> our property is destroyed ............ we suffer in every way
> still we are labelled as terrorists , still america is skeptical about our role ,
> still india is innocent and we are evil


Yes, because Pakistan sees itself as the umbrella under which Muslim fanaticism can stay safe and grow strong until the days it can be sent back out of the land to terrify the whole world. India certainly looks innocent by comparison!

If you want to change that perception don't ****** but change your conduct.

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## airmarshal

there were reports about this attack. There was specific report about an attack at an airbase before dawn. This clearly shows a breakdown in security coordination. I dont know how many attacks will make this coordination work. And how come at such an important base they did not have night vision devices? Such lapses baffle me!!


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## Mirage2000

The policy of concealment paying off not mentioning the foreign intelligence agencies who are doing this is making them more brave,there has to be some explanation who really did this and finger pointing by army or government.People are so fed up and angry at these attacks and the foreign intels who do this get away with everything that happens here so easily.


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## KRAIT

Hyperion said:


> LOL - Not yet! From tomorrow. Let me know of the date Indians vote for a showdown on the forum.


To be extremely honest, almost every Indian would have wanted loss of SAAB and C-130, not JF-17 coz you can easily build them soon but at the same time no casualties of any officer or any Pakistani person. 

Its hard to say, but deep down they really wanted what I just said. Hope you guys can relate to it.....

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## Viper0011.

scorpionx said:


> Before jumping on India, why dont you wait for few days and let the investigation to be completed. .


 
Guys, lets face it. Its not India. Truthfully, with India, Pakistan can eventually make peace. With these MOFO's, you can't even make sense out of. These people are religious fanatics who twisted the religion to give them a license to kill civilians and others everywhere......these are the BIGGEST threat to Pakistan first and then to others.

It is TIME that Pakistan took these terrorists out for its own sake. Getting rid of these people will help Pakistan become a prosperous, moderate and economically stronger nation. There is PLENTY of talent there, just lacking the security situation. I think all Pakistanis should support getting rid of these talibans. They are no good for Pakistan, her image in the world's standing and its internal security.

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## Solomon2

Secur said:


> In your right mind , are you ? The attackers were all killed and there was no damage to the aircraft stationed there ... What is your definition of " success " ?


How do we know the objective of the attackers? Why would we know everything about what was damaged already? Was the airbase just a target of opportunity for mayhem or was there a deeper purpose?

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Secur said:


> In your right mind , are you ? The attackers were all killed and there was no damage to the aircraft stationed there ... What is your definition of " success " ?


but they successfully penetrated inside the base and had made some damage .......... so what kind of success is that
operation is still not over and some terrorists are still there as per latest reports


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## Hyperion

KRAIT said:


> Have you ever wondered if these terrorists got two time lucky keeping in mind that no internal help was provided and it was done with help of foreign intelligence, don't you think a well coordinated Special forces team with latest gadgets, weapons, best training can get and destroy these important assets.
> 
> So think before you start pointing fingers at coz either you are blaming wrong people or you are ignoring the security lapses.



Krait that is not a fair assessment of the situation. The problem is these TTP guys are completely brain-washed. They don't have a clearly defined surgical target, the only objective is mayhem and go out with a bang! (they just want to die, they actively try to die!) 

In such a scenario, it's very difficult if not impossible to stop such a looney bull!


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## Secur

Solomon2 said:


> Yes, because Pakistan sees itself as the umbrella under which Muslim fanaticism can stay safe and grow strong until the days it can be sent back out of the land to terrify the whole world



Who started that mess in the first place , you hypocrites ?  ... Your country raised a whole new breed of terrorist for its own interests , provided them training to defeat USSR ... So STFU and move on ! 

You will be soon invited to FOX news to present your conspiracy theories and confusion of " what is real and what isn't " thinking ...


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Solomon2 said:


> How do we know the objective of the attackers? Why would we know everything about what was damaged already? Was the airbase just a target of opportunity for mayhem or was there a deeper purpose?


purpose was to destroy saab 2000 surveillance aircraft and to damage jf-17 factory


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## Imran Khan

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> purpose was to destroy saab 2000 surveillance aircraft and to damage jf-17 factory




well they failed but still we need more active security not for few days but all time


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## Secur

Solomon2 said:


> How do we know the objective of the attackers? Why would we know everything about what was damaged already? Was the airbase just a target of opportunity for mayhem or was there a deeper purpose?



Isn't the objective of the attackers more than obvious ?  To cause damage worth billions to Pakistan by destroying or damaging aircraft ! Believe me , our media is more than free to report if any such damage has occurred ... Come back to the real world ! Even if that was , it failed miserably , the terrorist are being handled at grave's custom by the angel of death and being dispatched to hell !


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## AtillaHun

Good job by PAF.


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## Secur

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> purpose was to destroy saab 2000 surveillance aircraft and to damage jf-17 factory


 He's trolling , mate ...


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## Imran Khan

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> purpose was to destroy saab 2000 surveillance aircraft and to damage jf-17 factory



tum is ke moo mat lago yaar ye to hamesha aysy hi bakwaas kerta rehta hai


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

scorpionx said:


> Before jumping on India, why dont you wait for few days and let the investigation to be completed. When your own Intel had alredy sniffed the attack, dont you think its just nonsense to blame India again and again?Or the attackers, just being foreign national (God knows how do you come to this conclusion so early) is enough evidence for India to be behind this ghastly suicidal mission?
> Anyways, RIP to the brave soldiers who lost their lives and just burn the masterminds of this attack to hell. God save India and Pakistan.Peace.


 they targeted saab 2000 , so?


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## Hyperion

Secur said:


> Yeah , my friend you took the Musharraf's ground situation based ideology of " Pakistan First " very seriously ... Good for you , I wish same for 180 million Pakistanis still stuck in delusions of Ummah ...



Nope, this is the ideological stand point I took in 1995, as a KID! Paid a heavy price and lost the love of my parents. HOWEVER, in 2012 my parents and the whole extended family agrees with me. I WON IN THE END!

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## Solomon2

airmarshal said:


> there were reports about this attack. There was specific report about an attack at an airbase before dawn. This clearly shows a breakdown in security coordination -


No specific date or location in the report, right? In D.C. we see these in the news after terror attacks all the time. I call them CYA operations - the intel or law-enforcement community working to cover its a$$ at missing something important: "See, we didn't miss anything, I issued a warning! Don't fire me! If I can get through this I'll work my way higher up the career ladder!"

I don't see why you should treat your intel boys with any greater respect than we Americans treat ours.


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## KRAIT

Hyperion said:


> Krait that is not a fair assessment of the situation. The problem is these TTP guys are completely brain-washed. They don't have a clearly defined surgical target, the only objective is mayhem and go out with a bang! (they just want to die, they actively try to die!)
> 
> In such a scenario, it's very difficult if not impossible to stop such a looney bull!


May be....but look from neutral angle buddy, Mehran and now this, it raises question about how much we are prepared against these attacks.....26/11 showed us how insecure our homes are......These are incidents which makes us to look back at re-think at the security preparations of ours....

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Solomon2 said:


> Yes, because Pakistan sees itself as the umbrella under which Muslim fanaticism can stay safe and grow strong until the days it can be sent back out of the land to terrify the whole world. India certainly looks innocent by comparison!
> 
> If you want to change that perception don't ****** but change your conduct.


facts is u people are biased and have motives against MUSLIMS .
u need to digest the truth


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## KingMamba

Haram zaadi zionazi kuta solomon ehte aakaar apne bakwas pehlata hai.

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## Solomon2

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> purpose was to destroy saab 2000 surveillance aircraft and to damage jf-17 factory


You know the purpose, you know the failure, but you ask PDF folks for the extent of the damage? If you're not making this stuff up then you have some very suspicious sources.


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## MJaa

Two member of the security force of the Pakistan Air Force have embraced Shahadat during the operation against the terrorists.


All six terrorists involved in the attack has been killed 


*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Terrorist Attack: Post Attack Situation ~ Pakistan Military Review*


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Imran Khan said:


> well they failed but still we need more active security not for few days but all time


yep we need to remove residential areas near to such vital installations


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## Devil Soul

all a$$holes are killed.........


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## Hyperion

KingMamba93 said:


> Haram zaadi zionazi kuta solomon ehte aakaar apne bakwas pehlata hai.



I fell down laughing 

Mamba beta zara piyar muhabbat!

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## KingMamba

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> facts is u people are biased and have motives against MUSLIMS .
> u need to digest the truth



Rehne do yaar sab jahnte hai ye kaisa cheese hai. Yeh to bharti ke se bhi zaada gand pehlata hai.

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## KRAIT

RIP to the soldiers.....

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## Hyde

*Operation completed

Official statement from the PAF spokeman saying that all 6 terrorists has been killed and the dead bodies recovered by the commandos.*

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## MJaa

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un (&#1573;&#1616;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1604;&#1616;&#1604;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1573;&#1616;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1600;&#1575; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1585;&#1614;&#1575;&#1580;&#1616;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606;&#1614 

May Allah bless the PAF security members for their great sacrifice


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## Devil Soul

one air commodore is also injured


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Solomon2 said:


> You know the purpose, you know the failure, but you ask PDF folks for the extent of the damage? If you're not making this stuff up then you have some very suspicious sources.


cos there are different news , express tribune says one aircraft damaged others say all is well , 
but flames were seen as shown in one pic too ..
that is why i asked about any confirmed report ..
dude stop trolling , be realistic

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## Hyperion

Devil Soul said:


> one air commodore is also injured


There is only one Air-Commodore there! How did he get injured?


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## KingMamba

KRAIT said:


> RIP to the soldiers.....



Thank You Krait, it because of some sane Indian posters like you on this forum that I believe fences can still be mended.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

2 shaheeds confirmed , RIP


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## Dance

Any official statements on whether there was any damage to the planes? 

Express tribune was reporting there was damage to one plane.


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## Imran Khan

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> yep we need to remove residential areas near to such vital installations



ohhh man we need to remove bases from such area not residence should be removed . pakistan has thousands of KMs empty land

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## Dance

Hyperion said:


> There is only one Air-Commodore there! How did he get injured?



Shot in the hand


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## Hyde

*Operation completed

Official statement from the PAF spokeman saying that all 6 terrorists has been killed and the dead bodies recovered by the commandos.

Two security officers killed (Shaheed), 1 commando wounded

and apparently no damage to any Aircraft or heavy machinery*


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## KingMamba

Hyperion said:


> I fell down laughing
> 
> Mamba beta zara piyar muhabbat!



Yaar iske kaum hi aisi hai mujhe gussa ajata hai.


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## SamantK

xyxmt said:


> there is a difference between an air base and nuke facility, why dont you try to go near our nuke facility and find out for your self. we had open access to our military facilities all the time and its not possible to fortify an entire airbase



I have no buisness going near your nuclear installations, I do not infact want to.. It is possible to fortify an entire base, it has been done, get real!

Also, what I was point out was that they will use this news to raise fingers, *does not mean* the facilities are not safe. That only time can tell!


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## Solomon2

Devil Soul said:


> all a$$holes are killed.........


Are you sure? If there is an aircraft patrolling afterward isn't it reasonable to conclude it's looking for someone - or something?


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Hyperion said:


> There is only one Air-Commodore there! How did he get injured?


no report about it , but there is news about his injury and dear base commander is equal rank of 
brigadier 
he may be an aero nautical engineer ....


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## Hyperion

KingMamba93 said:


> Yaar iske kaum hi aisi hai mujhe gussa ajata hai.


Nahin yara, iski kaum main bhi buhut achay log hain. Yeh khud thora dhela hai!


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## scorpionx

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> they targeted saab 2000 , so?



Please, just do not come to conclusion so early sirjee. The attackers (as in the cases earlier) had only one intention CREATE PANIC AND DESTROY EVERYTHING. Please have patience. The day you fail to burn the masterminds behind this attack, India will be their next target. So I really pray to God that your forces just eliminate these cancers from pakistan.

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## SamantK

Rest in peace for those soldiers who lost their lives...

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## Lightning Soul

Hyperion said:


> The problem is these TTP guys are completely brain-washed. They don't have a clearly defined surgical target, the only objective is mayhem and go out with a bang! (they just want to die, they actively try to die!)


But this time it was different. They didn't just want to die, if that would have been the case, they all could have just simply blow up their-selves at the Entrance gate which would have inflicted more causality Damage (Human Life Loss) but this time they came with a Purpose to fulfill first that was to damage/destroy the surveillance aircrafts stationed there (which directly provide no harm to them) similar to PNS Mehran base attack . So its evident that * Foreign hand* is involved in planning of all this.


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## Devil Soul




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## Hyperion

If I'm not mistaken ACDRE is the base commander. Or have they recently changed the SOP and AVM is the base commander?


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## KingMamba

Hyperion said:


> Nahin yara, iski kaum main bhi buhut achay log hain. Yeh khud thora dhela hai!



Yaar iske kaum zionazi hai. Unke dillo main Pakistan ke liye koi jaaga nai hai woh hai hamare dushman. Isko yahoodi kehna bura lagta hai kyoin kar yahoodi bhi aisi bakwas karne se pehle soch te hai.

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## KRAIT

KingMamba93 said:


> Yaar iske kaum zionazi hai. Unke dillo main Pakistan ke liye koi jaaga nai hai woh hai hamare dushman. Isko yahoodi kehna bura lagta hai kyoin kar yahoodi bhi aisi bakwas karne se pehle soch te hai.


Chadd na yaar....report kar de...kyun khoon jalaa raha hai....aa jaa wapis.....jald hi blame game bhi khelna hai hum sabko....to thodi tyaari kar lete hain....

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## Hyperion

Lightning Soul said:


> But this time it was different. They didn't just want to die, if that would have been the case, they all could have just simply blow up their-selves at the Entrance gate which would have inflicted more causality Damage (Human Life Loss) but this time they came with a Purpose to fulfill first that was to damage/destroy the surveillance aircrafts stationed there (which directly provide no harm to them) similar to PNS Mehran base attack . So its evident that * Foreign hand* is involved in planning of all this.



Buddy, obviously they want to inflict damage as well. You can not create havoc by just blowing yourself up, if you want to be fondled by the 72 gay men in Jannat, you need to do a good job destroying equipment as well! (Jihadism 2.0)


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

KingMamba93 said:


> Rehne do yaar sab jahnte hai ye kaisa cheese hai. Yeh to bharti ke se bhi zaada gand pehlata hai.


true , 
sad fact they are attacking our surveillance aircraft , who is gona benefit from it ..
still they force us not to be skeptical , one should have enough moral courage to call a spade a spade


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## KingMamba

scorpionx said:


> Please, just do not come to conclusion so early sirjee. The attackers (as in the cases earlier) had only one intention CREATE PANIC AND DESTROY EVERYTHING. Please have patience. The day you fail to burn the masterminds behind this attack, India will be their next target. So I really pray to God that your forces just eliminate these cancers from pakistan.


 
Agreed which is why I am usually skeptical when people blame India. I would like to believe the Indian intelligence would not be so naive to think that these goons would spare them once Pakistan is dealt with.


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## Hyperion

KRAIT said:


> Chadd na yaar....report kar de...kyun khoon jalaa raha hai....aa jaa wapis.....jald hi blame game bhi khelna hai hum sabko....to thodi tyaari kar lete hain....



Bilkul fit soch hai! Mamba khwa-ma-khwa khaffa ho raha hai

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

PAF officials say that base is secure now , 
search operation will continue to ensure that none of terrorist is hiding somewhere ...


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## GORKHALI

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> PAKISTAN is attacked ,
> PAKISTANIS are killed ,
> our property is destroyed ............ we suffer in every way
> still we are labelled as terrorists , still america is skeptical about our role ,
> still india is innocent and we are evil


 
You guys used to shelter evil and even today you are no different.Now that evil turned against his master and you blaming India for that.

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## KingMamba

Hyperion said:


> Bilkul fit soch hai! Mamba khwa-ma-khwa khaffa ho raha hai



Yaar tuusi log sai bolre ho. Pirbe haad hoti hai.

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## KRAIT

Hyperion said:


> Bilkul fit soch hai! Mamba khwa-ma-khwa khaffa ho raha hai


Rishtedaar hai apna...Woh Mamba, main Krait.....itna farz to banta hi hai....now no more off topic...MODs please don't give me infraction...

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## KingMamba

SHIELD said:


> You guys used to shelter evil and even today you are no different.Now that evil turned against his master and you blaming India for that.



This is a misconception. TTP has never been sheltered by Pakistani security personnel they are a separate entity from Afghan Taliban.



KRAIT said:


> Rishtedaar hai apna...Woh Mamba, main Krait.....itna farz to banta hi hai....now no more off topic...MODs please don't give me infraction...



Yaar hai hum sare bohut shukriya. 

Even though you piss me off sometimes.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

May ALLAH pak save our country from internal and external enemies .
every true PAKISTAN abhor terrorism whether in PAKISTAN or any where in the world. 
terrorist are proving to be cancer for our nation , terrorist organizations like TTP, BLA , BRA, BLUF , AF, let etc need to be crushed .


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## jha

Hyperion said:


> Buddy, obviously they want to inflict damage as well. You can not create havoc by just blowing yourself up, *if you want to be fondled by the 72 gay men in Jannat*, you need to do a good job destroying equipment as well! (Jihadism 2.0)



hahahahahaha.....Poore mood mein ho yaar....

BTW here is something from Aug 01 :



> Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) chief Hakimullah Mehsud has allegedly decided to increase terrorist attacks in Punjab, with emphasis to inflict maximum damage, especially in Lahore. In a covert meeting held at Asad Khel village in North Waziristan, Mehsud allocated Rs25 million to carry out attacks on PAF base Lahore, the Inter-Services Intelligence, Military Intelligence, Intelligence Bureau and the Counter Terrorism Department office in the province, The Express Tribune has learnt. An intelligence report said that the meeting was attended by prominent Taliban commanders, including Qari Yasin alias Qari Aslam group, a group mentioned in the Red Book as a high-profile terrorist outfit. Another intelligence report revealed that the TTP is planning attacks similar to the one on PNS Mehran base. The attackers have allegedly already carried out reconnaissance of the PAF base, with some local employees also collaborating with terrorists, while weapons and ammunition will be provided by concealing them using cargo companies.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

we need to realize that militants are using Islam for their evil motives , '
they have nothing to do with Islam or Muslims , 
rather they are animals . ****** animals

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## KingMamba

I wouldn't call this an intelligence failure. I would call this a failure to act upon intelligence.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

SHIELD said:


> You guys used to shelter evil and even today you are no different.Now that evil turned against his master and you blaming India for that.


hahahahaha , CIA at that time nurtured them , 
now again same dirty game going on , 
here common PAKISTANI has no sympathy for these terrorists


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## Solomon2

KingMamba93 said:


> I wouldn't call this an intelligence failure. I would call this a failure to act upon intelligence.


Without specific time and location intel will simply make people nervous more than effective.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

KingMamba93 said:


> I wouldn't call this an intelligence failure. I would call this a failure to act upon intelligence.


 actually we lack coordination 
one aircraft damaged , 
confirmed by airforce officials


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## Devil Soul

1x air craft is damaged ....

air commodore Mohammad Azam is injured and have been shifted to hospital....


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## KingMamba

Solomon2 said:


> Without specific time and location intel will simply make people nervous more than effective.



Regardless the intelligence was laid out in such fine detail that it should not have been disregarded. Security should have been beefed up in as many airbases as possible.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

now question is which aircraft is damaged , 
looks too be saab 2000 , 
looks we have lost one ..... sad very very sad


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## Dance

Devil Soul said:


> 1x air craft is damaged ....



Express tribune is saying that but then GEO is saying:

*According to PAF spokesman, the militants stormed into PAF Base Minhas and in a two-way clash five to six militants were killed while one body of a suicide bomber, a foreigner, strapped with explosives has been found close to the impact area.

&#8220;The aircraft parked at the base are safe and no J-F Thunder planes were present at the facility,&#8221; he confirmed.*

Operation completed at Kamra base, 6 militants killed - geo.tv


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## KingMamba

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> now question is which aircraft is damaged ,
> looks too be saab 2000 ,
> looks we have lost one ..... sad very very sad



Damages can be repaired, lives however cannot be brought back.

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## Devil Soul

geo reporting 7 outta 6 terrorist are killed.. i guess 1 is missing


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## Dance

Never mind now GEO is saying one aircraft is damaged


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

hmmmmmm we have lost two brave soldiers , RIP
but dear such costly aircraft too lost , 
where they are going to attack next .


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## slapshot

Lets hope it wasn't awacs


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## Devil Soul




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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

hmmmmmm we have lost two brave soldiers , RIP
but dear such costly aircraft too lost , 
where they are going to attack next .


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## Emmie

Dance said:


> Never mind now GEO is saying one aircraft is damaged



What kind of aircraft was that?


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## KingMamba

Devil Soul said:


> geo reporting 7 outta 6 terrorist are killed.. i guess 1 is missing



More likely captured as they said they were surrounded. He must be interrogated and then beheaded on national tv to serve as an example.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

RPG hit the aircraft


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## Solomon2

KingMamba93 said:


> Regardless the intelligence was laid out in such fine detail that it should not have been disregarded. Security should have been beefed up in as many airbases as possible.


Then the question becomes, "Who, exactly, made the decision not to act upon this intelligence?" And the answer usually is something like, "Hey, without more exact time & location info we can't do much because we can't be stronger everywhere all at once because if we could we'd be doing that already."


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Emmie said:


> What kind of aircraft was that?


same is my concern , 
RPG hit it


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## Machoman

WTF...........what the hell these people want man?


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## Dance

Emmie said:


> What kind of aircraft was that?



They haven't said, theres still a lot of conflicting reports on whether a plane was damaged or not. Some media outlets are saying there was a plane damaged, others are saying there are no planes damaged.

Does anyone know if a PAF official has confirmed these reports?

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## Emmie

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> same is my concern ,
> RPG hit it



I hope its not Saab.


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## Imran Khan

ssw the great job done

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## Hyde

*Every Chinese engineer is safe*


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## Imran Khan




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## K-Xeroid

Solomon2 said:


> Without specific time and location intel will simply make people nervous more than effective.


Just like CIA do, but still we see some shooting adventures in U.S . Isn't it?


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## Vassnti

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> true ,
> sad fact they are attacking our surveillance aircraft , who is gona benefit from it ..
> still they force us not to be skeptical , one should have enough moral courage to call a spade a spade



What your not asking is who wants to take out a surveillance aircraft but only has the capacity to do it on the ground?

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## Hyde

Dance said:


> They haven't said, theres still a lot of conflicting reports on whether a plane was damaged or not. Some media outlets are saying there was a plane damaged, others are saying there are no planes damaged.
> 
> Does anyone know if a PAF official has confirmed these reports?



They confirmed that the two security forces officers were killed (Shaheed) at the first check post. 1 commodore wounded and an aircraft is also damaged.

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## Safriz

Is the SAAB 2000 safe
Or R.I.P SAAB 2000 marhoom?


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## Devil Soul

now report says only 1 soldier is shaheed and their were 8 terrorists


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## Imran Khan

Emmie said:


> I hope its not Saab.




they didn't park saab in open air dear i am sure its ADA jet

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## Hyde

Zakii said:


> They confirmed that the two security forces officers were killed (Shaheed) at the first check post. 1 commodore wounded and an aircraft is also damaged.



Now they are saying *"4 injured including a commodore"*


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## Emmie

Zakii said:


> They confirmed that the two security forces officers were killed (Shaheed) at the first check post. 1 commodore wounded and an aircraft is also damaged.



Latest twist in the PAF statement - One officer embraced shahadat, not two.


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## Safriz

why Pakistan even bothers to buy aircraft when they incapable of keeping them safe?
this is ridiculous

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

two more blasts , 
recently heard


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## Thorough Pro

Ok here I go.

So previous night I witnessed two terrorist attacks on my beloved Pakista. One an armed attack by the 9/10 Taliban scumbags on Kamra Airbase, which Thanks to Allah Almighty was controlled quickly by our brave forces. Incident however raises multiple questions on the understanding of Pakistani security force on the war on terrorism? How come the base which came under attack at least three times earlier was subjected to yet another attack and the terrorists were able to enter the perimeter, blow up a fuel dump, kill atleat two of our brave sons, injured some more annd probably did cause some damage to property?

The second attack came from internet terrorists on this forum, sadly all of them Pakistani members. All of those members who were "in contact" with their brothers, friends, and relatives inside base and posting all kind of rumors, and live running commnetary on this forum while the attack was still in progress and feeling proud on giving insider news are the BIGGEST ASSHOLES. 

After spening so many years on this defence forum, they have learned nothing, tada, zilch. All those members who take pride in taking photographs of sensitive installations and posting it on internet forums with detailed descriptions of what is present on the base and where, which aircraft is stationed where, etc, etc are indirectly involced in this and other terrorist attacks on such installations.

There were some sane voices and among them "AlKaid" who pleaded at least twice to not post any info on the forum, but how do we tell assholes from people like AlKaid.

and then there were people who were busy spreading rumors,Saab are burning, assembly line is damaged, bla bla bla....

and some just lost it sitting in their homes, they got panicked, stopped thinking ratinally ann dstarted attacking andblaming every other person, interior minister issued visas to the attackers, Zardari knew about the attac and went to Saudi Arabia, Nawaz Sharif new and left Pakistan, PM new and went to KSA, bla bla bla..... these people can't even control their emotions sitting in the comfort of their homes while 9/10 terrorist attacked a base some hundred miles away from their homes should leave this forum and join some lesbian forum, some were so pathetic that they wanted every bearded man to be killed, seriously?

During a contingency (an attack for example) panicked friendlies are more dangerous than the actuall enemy and must be put down first.

And the best part is none of the indian member expressed any happiness and left the forum when they found out the attack was successfully countered, probably they wanted to hear some good news but atleast they were not explicit about it.

I loved this forum, and have been associated with it for many many years and with more than one ID's. have been banned many times for using abusive language towards anti Pakistanis be it indina sor Pakistanis themselves. but now I am done with it, just cant stand the idiotic immature Pakistani memebrs anymore, who needs any enemy when we have so many "intelligent Pakistani" members on this forum.

Pakistan Zindabad, Pakistan Zindabad, Pakistan Zindabad.


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## KRAIT

Safriz said:


> why Pakistan even bothers to buy aircraft when they incapable of keeping them safe?
> this is ridiculous


So according to your logic, why they fly these plane as many crashes now a days.....Your statement doesn't make a sense buddy.


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## Emmie

Imran Khan said:


> they didn't park saab in open air dear i am sure its ADA jet



Thanks... Much relaxed now, we can't afford loss of such an important asset.


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## Safriz

ARY says At least one Aircraft is damaged..
If its SAAB 2000..I will send Pink skirts and suspenders to PAF base Kamra...


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## Thorough Pro

Safriz said:


> Is the SAAB 2000 safe
> Or R.I.P SAAB 2000 marhoom?



Pathetic, if you have nothing good to say, keep your mouth shut.


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## Emmie

Geo tv yabliyan maar raha hay, pathetic reporting.

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## Imran Khan

Safriz said:


> why Pakistan even bothers to buy aircraft when they incapable of keeping them safe?
> this is ridiculous



wesy bakwaas ka aik time hota hai bhai jaan .  our forces need us to boost moral not bashing . we have thousands of terrorists and attacks happen but we fight like men not cry like women

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## A1Kaid

Everything will be alright.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Emmie said:


> Thanks... Much relaxed now, we can't afford loss of such an important asset.


my concern is still there , 
as per news one saab was airborn at that time so ............
my prayers that saabs are safe

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## KRAIT

Imran Khan said:


> wesy bakwaas ka aik time hota hai bhai jaan .  our forces need us to boost moral not bashing . we have thousands of terrorists and attacks happen but we fight like men not cry like women


Yup...these discussions and assessments should be left for more capable persons and for later.


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## Hyde

*PAF spokesman denied the media reports of 2 security forces been killed.

He confirmed only 1 security officer is dead (Shaheed)*

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## Safriz

Punjab Police called in to help Armed forces..There is a big fat Police man on ARY..He shunned the news reporter...All personnel involved in the operation Refraining from Talking to reportes...
8 terrorists killed 1 gone missing,and they couldn't find him yet...
Base commander injured and one Officer killed,one more in critical condition


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## Imran Khan

Emmie said:


> Geo tv yabliyan maar raha hay, pathetic reporting.



wey konsa wo phly phlosphy jharty thy phly bhi bak bak kerty thy ab bhi wohi ker rahy hain . koi unheen saab-2000 ka name na bata de warna wo usy taba kara deen gay we should told them abut f-6 modern fighter jet so they will sure play a news jadeed tareen f-6 taba ho gya hai 



REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> my concern is still there ,
> as per news one saab was airborn at that time so ............
> my prayers that saabs are safe



that bird is diverted to any other base most probably chaklala


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## sreekimpact

here it goes .....Newyork times reporting!!!

*Pakistani Air Force Base With Nuclear Ties Is Attacked*

KARACHI, Pakistan &#8212; Suspected Islamist militants attacked a major Pakistani Air Force base with links to the country&#8217;s nuclear program in the early hours of Thursday, setting off an exchange of fire that lasted several hours.
Security forces battled attackers until dawn at the Minhas air force base, west of the capital, Islamabad, according to reports on Pakistani television. At least one militant was killed and several others were wounded.

The assault came amid mounting speculation that Pakistan&#8217;s military was preparing to carry out an operation in the militant stronghold of North Waziristan, in the tribal belt &#8212; a longstanding demand of the United States.

Early reports suggested the attackers, some of whom wore suicide jackets, were targeting JF-17 fighter jets stationed at the base that could be used in such an operation.

It was not clear how many warplanes were stationed at the base, or whether any were damaged in the assault.

The base, in the Attock district of Punjab, is believed to be one of the locations where part of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear stockpile, estimated to include at least 100 warheads, is stored.

Militants have attacked the base twice already &#8212; in 2007, when a suicide bomber hit a bus near the entrance, and in 2008, when militants fired several rockets into the base.

The latest assault resembled a May 2011 assault on a military base in Karachi in which at least two American-built surveillance aircraft were destroyed. It was not entirely unexpected.

On Aug. 10, the newspaper The Express Tribune, quoting intelligence officials, reported that the Pakistani Taliban were planning to attack an air force base near Lahore before the religious holiday of Id al-Fitr, which is expected to fall around Monday.

Arif Rafiq, an adjunct scholar at Middle East Institute in Washington, noted that the attack coincided with the speculation about a military operation in North Waziristan. &#8220;The Taliban are telling Pakistan&#8217;s leadership, &#8216;If you hit us here, we&#8217;ll hit you everywhere,&#8217; &#8221; he said.

Salman Masood contributed reporting.


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## Hyde

Safriz said:


> 8 terrorists killed 1 gone missing,and they couldn't find him yet...
> Base commander injured and one Officer killed,one more in critical condition



No it was anticipated that 9 terrorists are inside the complex but after the operation was completed they counted only 6. They could not run away as they were inside the base and surrounded by the SSG from every corner


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## Dance

Emmie said:


> Geo tv yabliyan maar raha hay, pathetic reporting.



Not just Geo, but every channel that is reporting this is pathetic. 


Theres so many rumors going on right now (ranging from how many people were killed/injured to if any planes were damaged) that I give up.

In a couple of hours we'll know the whole story hopefully.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

RPGs were fired from outside the base , 
they used local population as safe point for entry , 
they were fully loaded with automatic weapons and had motive to make maximum damage, 
still situation is not fully ok and search operation in progress..
there is damage for sure , upto what extent has to be confirmed officially yet ...
that,s the report up til now


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## Imran Khan

Zakii said:


> No it was anticipated that 9 terrorists are inside the complex but after the operation was completed they counted only 6. They could not run away as they were inside the base and surrounded by the SSG from every corner



now this is really a pain for me damn


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## K-Xeroid

Geo news don't Know iota about battle tactics , Wat a foolish Questions they are asking.

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## razgriz19

Safriz said:


> why Pakistan even bothers to buy aircraft when they incapable of keeping them safe?
> this is ridiculous



attacking the facility is different than damaging the aircrafts!!
security forces cant just shoot anyone who walks by nearby the base!
the militants were in military uniform, security personnel could not distinguish them from terrorists.
They attacked. We stoped it.
NO AIRCRAFT WERE DAMAGE!

So think before you say something!


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

we need to look for black sheep inside our armed forces , 
those mir jafirs are biggest threat to our armed forces


----------



## A1Kaid

Everything will be alright.

Message from the Pakistan Ministry of Information and Broadcasting.


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## Imran Khan

K-Xeroid said:


> Geo news don't Know iota about battle tactics , Wat a foolish Questions they are asking.



forgive them not everyone is defence.pk member in pakistan

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## Safriz

Latest statement by Air force spokesperson says attack happened at 0200 PST..The miscreants were dressed in Security forces Uniform..Two hour Gun battle ended in 7 Miscreants killed , one missing,although they are not sure about the exact numbers...


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## KRAIT

sreekimpact said:


> here it goes .....Newyork times reporting!!!
> 
> *Pakistani Air Force Base With Nuclear Ties Is Attacked*


Is it me or every one seeing they have now attached Nuclear word to it and now will build theories and statements on it.....US journalism do know how to attract paranoids...

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## Safriz

Fuel depot still on fire...ARY just showed smoke rising from premises...


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## The Deterrent

KRAIT said:


> Is it me or every one seeing they have now attached Nuclear word to it and now will build theories and statements on it.....US journalism do know how to attract paranoids...



Didn't I say that these kind of statements would be coming soon?
Wait for more!!!

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

All media channels are trying to take credit for the report , 
come on yar ,


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## Imran Khan

KRAIT said:


> Is it me or every one seeing they have now attached Nuclear word to it and now will build theories and statements on it.....US journalism do know how to attract paranoids...



we don't give them sh11t kamra is open base every visitor from forgion visit it how the hell its nuke base ? chines are there many countries visitors visit kamra every years many air chiefs and delegations visit it even media persons go there for make short films .go to hell USA .

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

we are inder attack and media channels ...........
they are so immature


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## K-Xeroid

Leave every channel, just watch *News one*, Impressive reporting , backing our forces with encouragous patriotic songs. Thats wat called responsibility. Respect brave soldiers.

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## Safriz

Too many people who have nothing better to do...have surrounded the main entrance....
All "Tamaashbeen"


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## Imran Khan

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> we are inder attack and media channels ...........
> they are so immature



don't be angry they can sale mothers for rating and breaking news


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## Developereo

Mercenary said:


> Has any captured TTP ever confessed of being funded by USA and India?
> 
> Just curious



Yes, they have. It has been posted on this forum before.

There is a proxy war going on, and the TTP are just the proxy foot soldiers.

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## EagleEyes

The attack occurred from outside and through vicinity the aircraft was damaged. There is a lot of misinformation by the media.

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## Safriz

Currently Nobody allowed to enter or exit the airbase..
Nights shift workers are also barred from leaving the airbase and all are undergoing identity checks...


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## MJaa

One of the aircraft of Pakistan Air Force was damaged in RPG attack by the terrorists. RPG was fired from outside the airbase.


*Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Terrorist Attack: Post Attack Situation ~ Pakistan Military Review*


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## KRAIT

AhaseebA said:


> Didn't I say that these kind of statements would be coming soon?
> Wait for more!!!


Yup......soon there will be detailed article about how one JF-17 could have been stolen and could have took a nuclear bomb and attacked US in Afghanistan......Hollywood script writers may have been hired to do so.....

I think one thread should be created for such news to be published on this incident to see how they build the story from this day onwards....

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## Rahil khan

Whether it was security breach or not. But now this incident will certainly give huge propaganda value to the international media. Which can be counterproductive for our security establishment.

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## Imran Khan

MJaa said:


> One of the aircraft of Pakistan Air Force was damaged in RPG attack by the terrorists. RPG was fired from outside the airbase.
> 
> 
> *Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Terrorist Attack: Post Attack Situation ~ Pakistan Military Review*


\\\



type type type damn


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## KRAIT

Rahil khan said:


> Whether it was security breach or not. But now this incident will certainly give huge propaganda value to the international media. Which can be counterproductive for our security establishment.


Actually buddy, I think this was the real target, not your planes......planes MIGHT have been cherry on the top for them....

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## K-Xeroid

WebMaster said:


> The attack occurred from outside and through vicinity the aircraft was damaged. There is a lot of misinformation by the media.


Better to watch it.....
WebTV Newsone by Eboundservices - iStream
Rest of media is behaving like irresponsible bunch of B@stards.


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## razgriz19

MJaa said:


> One of the aircraft of Pakistan Air Force was damaged in RPG attack by the terrorists. RPG was fired from outside the airbase.
> 
> 
> *Read more: PAF Minhas Airbase / Kamra Air Base Under Terrorist Attack: Post Attack Situation ~ Pakistan Military Review*



Quoting this blog

"- One of the dead terrorist is believed to be a foreigner.
- None of the aircraft was damaged during the attack by the terrorists.
- One of the aircraft of Pakistan Air Force was damaged in RPG attack by the terrorists. 
- RPG was fired from outside the airbase."


they have no idea what they're saying

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## Safriz

A friend of mine lives in Fateh Jang ..and according to him Kamra had an incident of terrorism 4 months ago and since then the area was under strict watch.....No un identified people were allowed anywhere near the complex..

and yet the terrorists succeeded to damage one aircraft and kill one security man


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## Mercenary

Developereo said:


> Yes, they have. It has been posted on this forum before.
> 
> There is a proxy war going on, and the TTP are just the proxy foot soldiers.



What was the evidence?


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## Ticker

7-8 attacked. Initially some occupied roof of a house just outside the outer boundary wall and provided covering fire at one of the entry points. Also fired RPG rockets at the entry point as well as towards some visible aircraft, causing minor damage to one aircraft. Also managed to enter under the covering fire. However, due to immediate reaction of quick reaction force, were contained and could not proceed any further and 7 were killed. 

One own soldier martyred. The Base Commander, leading the response effort got injured and is OK. 

All under control. 

F uck the enemy.

Pakistan Zindabad.

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## Dance

razgriz19 said:


> Quoting this blog
> 
> "- One of the dead terrorist is believed to be a foreigner.
> - None of the aircraft was damaged during the attack by the terrorists.
> - One of the aircraft of Pakistan Air Force was damaged in RPG attack by the terrorists.
> - RPG was fired from outside the airbase."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they have no idea what they're saying




Like I said, too many rumors going right now. It's best to wait and see the extent of the damage (if there was any)

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## Safriz

Pind sulaiman makhan is the village from where the Terrorists entered the Airbase...
ARY showing live footage from the village and there are aircrafts visible within RPG range...


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## Developereo

Mercenary said:


> What was the evidence?



You asked if any TTP ever "confessed" and I explained that they have.

As for making evidence public, a formal announcement would necessitate an act of war on the foreign sponsors of TTP, and Pakistan is in no position to declare war on these countries. However, the deep intel, the specific targets, and the sophisticated training and equipment of the terrorists leaves markers which are enough for our security agencies to know what's going on.

Hence the proxy way. That is why it is called a "proxy war". This is how proxy wars are fought -- with plausible deniability on all sides.

P.S. Note that I am not discounting moles on the ground. As I wrote before, the foot soldiers are all "our own". However, the bigger picture is a lot more complicated.

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## MJaa

any news on the type of aircraft?

I hope its not Saab-2000 AEW&C


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## Imran Khan

Safriz said:


> Pind sulaiman makhan is the village from where the Terrorists entered the Airbase...
> ARY showing live footage from the village and there are aircrafts visible within RPG range...


 can you identify aircrafts type?


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## Safriz

Locals say too many afghans live in the area in Refugee camps....



Imran Khan said:


> can you identify aircrafts type?



Looks like IL-78 tanker

Terrorists entered from this isde of Complex and locals say they are aware of many places from where they can enter into the Kamra base without being detected...

kamra - Google Maps

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## Agni5000

Mercenary said:


> What was the evidence?



dream in the night..


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## MJaa

Too bad

its a big target for terrorists


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## Safriz

The injured Base commander who was transferred to Hospital is reported to be fine and recovering...

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## T-Rex

Developereo said:


> You asked if any TTP ever "confessed" and I explained that they have.
> 
> As for making evidence public, a formal announcement would necessitate an act of war on the foreign sponsors of TTP, and Pakistan is in no position to declare war on these countries. However, the deep intel, the specific targets, and the sophisticated training and equipment of the terrorists leaves markers which are enough for our security agencies to know what's going on.
> 
> Hence the proxy way. That is why it is called a "proxy war". This is how proxy wars are fought -- with plausible deniability on all sides.
> 
> P.S. Note that I am not discounting moles on the ground. As I wrote before, the foot soldiers are all "our own". However, the bigger picture is a lot more complicated.


*
I believe the attack was executed for proving uncle sam's concerns about the Pakistani nuclear installations. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the Raymond guys are discovered with the strings in the end.*


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## Safriz

The area was Under observation for a long time and terrorists meticulously selected a weak spot ....
Clue: too many Afghan refugees living in the area.......
All villages have been INFORMED that the security forces will conduct house to house search....


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## Dance

I wonder if this incident will expedite the north waziristan operation?


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## Safriz

A friend of mine who lives in Fateh Jang has a son with autism .. The child attends special school in Kamra...
He says that the security had been stepped up exponentially in the last 4 months..So the security agencies did know something is about to happen...and looks like the terrorists remained in the area mingled among locals for long enough to survey the area extensively..
Locals say that they know each other as there are a few small villages in which everybody knows each other..
But they dont know the people living in the area in Afghan refugee camps.
*
ARY says Two more explosions heard from the Airbase....Its not finished yet...*


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Cavemen can't do such attacks ,its very well planned.

Pakistani bases need very high tech security like badge and hand scan access etc. Human security can't judge if the person in uniform is friend or foe and Pakistani enemies know just wear uniform and outdated security of just human guard can be over come.


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## Emmie

Imran Khan said:


> can you identify aircrafts type?



Just watched the footage, aircraft shown was IL-78. Looked perfectly alright, no smoke clouds around.


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## RazPaK

This was an operation against Pakistan by the Americans. Anyone that doubts this is either an idiot or a tool.


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## Desert Fox

*Why would a terrorist organization like the TTP target AWAC Aircrafts and Jet fighters?

Does the Taliban have a Air Force whom they deem PAF AWAC's and JF-17's as a threat to? And for this reason they wanted to destroy/permanently damage these air crafts and their production lines?

Something leads me to believe that definitely foreign hand is involved.

Then again if our security forces weren't so incompetent these terrorists would have been stopped at the front door rather than be allowed to enter the whole house and wreak havoc at will.*

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## Safriz

ARY says Two more explosions heard from the Airbase....Its not finished yet...

Few gun shots and then two explosions heard....


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## Agni5000

Militants attack Kamra airbase in Pakistan; 6 attackers, 2 security personnel killed

Militants attack Kamra airbase in Pakistan; 6 attackers, 2 security personnel killed - The Times of India


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## Safriz

Agni5000 said:


> Militants attack Kamra airbase in Pakistan; 6 attackers, 2 security personnel killed
> 
> Militants attack Kamra airbase in Pakistan; 6 attackers, 2 security personnel killed - The Times of India



Mate read the thread before posting........

All this and more has been posted already...



miss said:


> score kya hai?



Please find some other thread for trolling....

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## RazPaK

Americans are doing this to move in and colonize Pakistan. Wake up idiots..


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## Dance

Just In: Another terrorist has been killed on the base. Total militants eight.

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## Safriz

The IL-78 is still visible and looks alright...



Dance said:


> Just In: Another terrorist has been killed on the base. Total militants eight.



The source of the blast isnt known yet..Its speculated that its the last Zombie blowing himself up...Not confirmed yet...


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## karan.1970

Desert Fox said:


> *Why would a terrorist organization like the TTP target AWAC Aircrafts and Jet fighters?
> 
> Does the Taliban have a Air Force whom they deem PAF AWAC's and JF-17's as a threat to? And for this reason they wanted to destroy/permanently damage these air crafts and their production lines?
> 
> Something leads me to believe that definitely foreign hand is involved.
> 
> Then again if our security forces weren't so incompetent these terrorists would have been stopped at the front door rather than be allowed to enter the whole house and wreak havoc at will.*



They would do that because they want to make a statement that even Pakistani military is not safe from them.. They are just hitting Pakistan where it hurts the most.

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## Oldman1

RazPaK said:


> Americans are doing this to move in and colonize Pakistan. Wake up idiots..



Uh yeah...


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## Dance

Safriz said:


> The IL-78 is still visible and looks alright...
> 
> 
> 
> The source of the blast isnt known yet..Its speculated that its the last Zombie blowing himself up...Not confirmed yet...





News outlets are now reporting that the last terrorist is dead.


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## RazPaK

These militants must be captured alive, no matter what the price.


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## miss

RazPaK said:


> Americans are doing this to move in and colonize Pakistan. Wake up idiots..


the brits colonized india for her wealth.. americans colonized arab lands for oil..
are they stooooppppid to colonize pak?

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## T-Rex

Desert Fox said:


> *Why would a terrorist organization like the TTP target AWAC Aircrafts and Jet fighters?
> 
> Does the Taliban have a Air Force whom they deem PAF AWAC's and JF-17's as a threat to? And for this reason they wanted to destroy/permanently damage these air crafts and their production lines?
> 
> Something leads me to believe that definitely foreign hand is involved.
> *



*Exactly right! This cannot be target for the terrorists but it is a logical target for those who want to say that Pakistan is a threat to the entire world.*

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## miss

RazPaK said:


> These militants must be captured alive, no matter what the price.


too late.. read post before yours


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Now no one can say that its not Pakistan's war and this attack will be used by Generals to start a war at north .

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## RazPaK

Oldman1 said:


> Uh yeah...



Your MIC is even making average Americans to be fools. Wake up.

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## SamranAli

i have no doubt that it could be american game plan as Loen panetta spoke about nuke security just earlier.


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## Dance

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Now no one can say that its not Pakistan's war and this attack will be used by Generals to start a war at north .



This has been Pakistans war for quite some time now. 

And whether the army goes into north waziristan now or months from now, one thing is clear: we have to go in there one day and clean it up.

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## Safriz

Dance said:


> News outlets are now reporting that the last terrorist is dead.



Yes i hear it now...
The 8th Terrorist has been killed


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## Oldman1

RazPaK said:


> Your MIC is even making average Americans to be fools. Wake up.



Please buddy don't embarrass yourself when you blame on foreigners on attacks on its own bases because you don't believe Muslims would do such a thing. I don't want to see you hurt yourself. When Pakistan makes announcement about attacking the Taliban, expect a response from them.


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## Safriz

ALL 8 TERRORISTS HAVE BEEN KILLED AS OF NOW

All Dead terrorists will be finger printed and DNA tested and the data will be matched through NADRA database....
That will give conclusive evidence if they were Pakistanis or Foreigners...


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## Agni5000

RazPaK said:


> These militants must be captured alive, no matter what the price.


 
Why don't u return and capture them. Every armchair idiot gives statement from abroad, it is fashion now a days.


----------



## miss

SamranAli said:


> i have no doubt that it could be american game plan as Loen panetta spoke about nuke security just earlier.


there we go again, blaming everyone around but your selves. failing to introspect is the cause for this.
the only reason this happned is because you supported this kind of people starting from 1979.. and probably as early as 1947.

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## Dance

Oldman1 said:


> When Pakistan makes announcement about attacking the Taliban, expect a response from them.



Actually Panetta was the one going around saying that Pakistan will go into north Waziristan.


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## MastanKhan

Mercenary said:


> How could these animals penetrate such a fortified site?



Because it is being defended by pakistan air force personale----don't you get it by now.


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## RazPaK

Oldman1 said:


> Please buddy don't embarrass yourself when you blame on foreigners on attacks on its own bases because you don't believe Muslims would do such a thing. I don't want to see you hurt yourself. When Pakistan makes announcement about attacking the Taliban, expect a response from them.



No need to be to naive. These men being from our tribal areas could never have pulled off such a dastardly feat. They were hired guns and traoned by the best.


----------



## razgriz19

*Suspected militants attack Pakistan air force base*

KAMRA, Pakistan (Reuters) - Islamist militants armed with rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons fought their way into one of Pakistan's largest air bases on Thursday, the air force said, in a brazen challenge to the nuclear-armed country's powerful military.

O*nly one aircraft was slightly damaged, an air force spokesman said, adding that the Minhas air base at Kamra, in central Punjab province, did not house nuclear weapons. "No air base is a nuclear air base in Pakistan," he said.*

A gunbattle raged for hours after the attack started. Seven militants and one soldier were killed, the spokesman said.

The overnight assault challenged official assertions that military operations had severely weakened militants waging a violent campaign to topple the U.S.-backed government and impose strict Islamic rule.

Security forces opened fire on militants strapped with suicide bombing vests as they approached aircraft hangars, prompting other militants to fire rocket-propelled grenades from outside the base's walls, said the air force spokesman.

Base commander, Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who led the operation against the attackers, was wounded, but is in stable condition, said the spokesman.

It was not immediately clear if the attack was beaten back but a Reuters reporter who reached Kamra in the morning did not hear any gunfire.

"Security personnel are now in the process of scanning the entire area to check for the presence of any other miscreant," said the spokesman. 
Minhas, 75 km (45 miles) northeast of Islamabad, is adjacent to the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, a major air force research and development centre. Pakistan manufactures JF-17 fighter planes, jointly developed with China, at the site.

Suicide bombers launched attacks near the base and the aeronautical complex in 2007 and 2009, but news reports said defenses were not breached.

It was not immediately clear how the attackers managed to enter the sprawling base this time. Several squadrons of fighters and surveillance planes are believed to be housed there.

"One body of a suicide bomber strapped with explosives has been found close to the impact area," said an air force statement.

Pakistan's Taliban movement has staged a number of high-profile attacks over the past few years, including one on army headquarters in Rawalpindi in 2009.

Last year, six Taliban gunmen attacked a naval base in Pakistan's biggest city Karachi to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden. At least 10 military personnel were killed and 20 wounded in the 16-hour assault.

Those attacks, and the latest one, are embarrassing for Pakistan's military, which has ruled the country for more than half of its 65-year history and is seen as the most efficient state institution.

The Taliban, which is close to al Qaeda, is blamed for many of the suicide bombings across Pakistan, a strategic U.S. ally.

Pakistan's military, one of the biggest in the world, has staged several offensives against Taliban strongholds in the unruly tribal areas near the border with Afghanistan.

But the operations have failed to break the back of the Taliban. Major suicide bombings have eased considerably over the past year but that could be due to a tactical shift and not pressure from the military.

(Additional reporting by Jibran Ahmad in PESHAWAR; Writing by Michael Georgy; Editing by Raju Gopalakrishnan)

Suspected militants attack Pakistan air force base | Top News | Reuters

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## F.O.X

Pakistan Refused to Launch another Operation even after US forced us , & now this happened , How Very Convenient .


----------



## Safriz

miss said:


> LOL.. how is that.. if you dna test yourself with manmohan singh it will probably be the same. LOL.. what a nutcase joke is this



can you please STFU?


----------



## Oldman1

Dance said:


> Actually Panetta was the one going around saying that Pakistan will go into north Waziristan.



Then its probably true since the Taliban hit first to prevent any possible operation. They must know something.


----------



## razgriz19

miss said:


> by your own let. so you think that 26/11 is still an inside job? lol...



how about you leave this thread alone for the day?


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## Oldman1

F.O.X said:


> Pakistan Refused to Launch another Operation even after US forced us , & now this happened , How Very Convenient .



We didn't force Pakistan to launch operation. We urged them. Unless Pakistan is controlled by the U.S. Which is not possible since Pakistan removed our personnel from their bases.


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## Safriz

Desert Fox said:


> So you mean to tell me there were only 8 terrorists?
> 
> 8 terrorists were able to make this much of a fuss, explosions, and damage equipment, were they that well trained that it only took 8 of them to do all of that?



yup they were well trained and well equipped....

Only this time Unlike Mehran base attack...The Security forces did not try to capture them alive and got rid of them..
Thats why there wasn't much damage.

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## Dance

Oldman1 said:


> Then its probably true since the Taliban hit first to prevent any possible operation. They must know something.



I'm pretty sure the operation will still go on (when it will happen, who knows).

But it would have been better for Panetta to keep quiet so that the taliban wouldn't be warned.


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## miss

razgriz19 said:


> how about you leave this thread alone for the day?


sure will do.. good luck..


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## SamranAli

time to speak true and blame real terorrists aka america and india. PAF Kamra can never be target of taliban but american tererrists to prove that nukes are not save. Give a nuke in their *** fitted in Shaheen missile.


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## F.O.X

Oldman1 said:


> We didn't force Pakistan to launch operation. We urged them. Unless Pakistan is controlled by the U.S. Which is not possible since Pakistan removed our personnel from their bases.



Who the Hell is US to Tell us what we need to Do , ? Who are you , why does Paneta needs to make an announcement that Pakistan is Launching an operation , did we made that announcement ? , did we ask you to make that announcement ? did we even conformed that we will be launching an operation ? 

US is the Devil behind all the mess in Asia . whether you believe it or decide to close you eye & Chant we are Saints we are saints.

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## HAIDER

But everyone on media raising one point, these type of terrorist attack are " well financed " , well planned, information provided, planning, with good weapon and all night vision equipment


----------



## jaunty

KRAIT said:


> Is it me or every one seeing they have now attached Nuclear word to it and now will build theories and statements on it.....US journalism do know how to attract paranoids...


 
BBC report has already attached the N-word. 

BBC News - Militants killed in Pakistan air base gunfight


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## Safriz

HAIDER said:


> But everyone on media raising one point, these type of terrorist attack are " well financed " , well planned, information provided, planning, with good weapon and all night vision equipment



Yup it was not a random yaboo attack..
It was well planned,well equipped and they had pre assigned targets...


----------



## clmeta

Self delete


RazPaK said:


> Americans are doing this to move in and colonize Pakistan. Wake up idiots..


----------



## skydrill_2

53 members and 111 guests???? i think the title scared the sh!t out of the people......


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## Oldman1

F.O.X said:


> Who the Hell is US to Tell us what we need to Do , ? Who are you , why does Paneta needs to make an announcement that Pakistan is Launching an operation , did we made that announcement ? , did we ask you to make that announcement ? did we even conformed that we will be launching an operation ?
> 
> US is the Devil behind all the mess in Asia . whether you believe it or decide to close you eye & Chant we are Saints we are saints.



Who the hell does Pakistan tell us what we need to do in Afghanistan? Asking us to close Afghan borders when to launch operaation to prevent terrorists from escaping to Afghanistan huh??? Tell me! Pakistan is the devil itself with all those bombs blowing up in mosques and at markets. Terrorists around the world traveling to Pakistan for training. Indeed its the devil itself in Asia. Look at yourself and figure out why so many terrorists die in your country by drones or special ops raids.


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## clmeta

Agree with you mate. The scene is now set for an assault in North Waziristan.
The public opinion has now been shaped for it.


Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Now no one can say that its not Pakistan's war and this attack will be used by Generals to start a war at north .


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## zip

Little off topic:
violence is like fire .. It starts from a incident and cycle of destruction goes on forever untill fuel burns out ..winning Psychological war is important ..one should show the seed of doubts in enemy mind that they are fighting for wrong reasons ..and every peace attempt should be reciprocated with due respect ..non violence should be the core principle of country in todays turbulant time ..otherwise you attract all the ills ..


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## Safriz

Attackers are said to be 19 to 33 years old...
They had night vision equipment and were targeting SAAB ERIEYE AWACS


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## Imran Khan

Oldman1 said:


> Who the hell does Pakistan tell us what we need to do in Afghanistan? Asking us to close Afghan borders when to launch operaation to prevent terrorists from escaping to Afghanistan huh??? Tell me! Pakistan is the devil itself with all those bombs blowing up in mosques and at markets. Terrorists around the world traveling to Pakistan for training. Indeed its the devil itself in Asia. Look at yourself and figure out why so many terrorists die in your country by drones or special ops raids.



just don't cry when taliban bang you and NATO  daily 6-4 solders killed and packed to USA

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## Solomon2

Safriz said:


> ALL 8 TERRORISTS HAVE BEEN KILLED AS OF NOW




WITHOUT PRISONERS HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DISCOVER AND CONFIRM THEIR SUPPORTERS AND ACCOMPLICES?


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## SamranAli

and the Fake Liberal scum is blaming Imran Khan,
CJP, Army, Islam for kamra attack. These
fake libreal scum are the biggest enemies
of the country.


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## Alfa-Fighter

RazPaK said:


> This was an operation against Pakistan by the Americans. Anyone that doubts this is either an idiot or a tool.



Well to bad operation, the US done so much with OBL that under PAK army garrison area didn't know about it until they not finished them off....

Even a un-trained person is not capable to launch such op


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## TOPGUN

Very sad news i was not expecting this again after PN show... GOD bless the lost soul who lost his life to protect his country against these cowards.. in all due respect it seems no leasons were learned from the last show down at PN base. Thank GOD no more lives were lost and not alot damage done to the base and it's assits.


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## razgriz19

jaunty said:


> BBC report has already attached the N-word.
> 
> BBC News - Militants killed in Pakistan air base gunfight



go read the post #668.
Pakistan do not have nukes on its air bases.
stated by an air force official to Rueters.


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## skydrill_2

Imran Khan said:


> just don't cry when taliban bang you and NATO  daily 6-4 solders killed and packed to USA


 
and do you even know how many countless pakistani soldiers and civilians are losing their life in return???


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## Dance

TOPGUN said:


> .. in all due respect it seems no leasons were learned from the last show down at PN base..



Thats the issue.

Until people start getting their act together, we're going to keep seeing attacks like this happening for many many years.

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## Mirage2000

jaunty said:


> BBC report has already attached the N-word.
> 
> BBC News - Militants killed in Pakistan air base gunfight



Nuclear or any related thing is not there try reading the link before posting

here is non video link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19278302


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## Imran Khan

Vicar said:


> Plant melons, harvest melons; plant beans, harvest beans.



same apply on you after all you guys lose thousands lives from terror .


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## Alfa-Fighter

Solomon2 said:


> WITHOUT PRISONERS HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DISCOVER AND CONFIRM THEIR SUPPORTERS AND ACCOMPLICES?



Well they even released Terrorist who tries to kill Mush citing lack of evidence, thats why Mush staying in UK, in PAK you need get permission from Terrorist to live. No wonder they didn't blame MUSF attack on US as he was pro US that time or else they would have blame that.


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## Imran Khan

skydrill_2 said:


> do pakistanis have nukes at all??



no we are nuclear free nation .


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## razgriz19

skydrill_2 said:


> do pakistanis have nukes at all??



We will give you a presentation one day.
I am sure that day is not far..


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## F.O.X

Oldman1 said:


> Who the hell does Pakistan tell us what we need to do in Afghanistan? Asking us to close Afghan borders when to launch operaation to prevent terrorists from escaping to Afghanistan huh??? Tell me! Pakistan is the devil itself with all those bombs blowing up in mosques and at markets. Terrorists around the world traveling to Pakistan for training. Indeed its the devil itself in Asia. Look at yourself and figure out why so many terrorists die in your country by drones or special ops raids.



You are Sitting in our Backyard , All the mess you have made we have to clean it up , you & your Allies are Running out of Afg since you cannot Win & control half of Afg we are now left with the mess , So Yes Pakistan has the Complete Right to tell US what they need to Do in Afg , you are Running away after loosing a War , we have to stay here forever , 

So Yes , Who THE HELL IS US to tell us what we need to do ? we are a Sovereign country we know what is in our best interest, We said to close borders because we knew you will never that , as if you did your own funded Terrorists will be killed , and US will have nothing to destabilize Pakistan. 

You lost 3000 people in Twin tower Attack , & in return you killed half a million innocent civilians in the Name of war of terror , So you tell me WHo is the Real Terrorist ? 

as i said before , people like you are teh once , who think you Saints & have the Right to tell others what to do , while every one who does not listen to you is a Terrorist . 

Answer me this .

1 . You started war in IRaq to Find Nuclear Weapons , DID you FIND THEM ???
2. You Started War in Afg , to ERIDICATE TALIBAN , DID YOU ACCOMPLISHED THAT ??

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## Imran Khan

indian made mess is growing in thread MODS be ready


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## Edevelop

miss said:


> by your own let. so you think that 26/11 is still an inside job? lol...



Could you STFU or GTFO! cuz this thread is not about 26/11


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## Karachiite

skydrill_2 said:


> do pakistanis have nukes at all??



No Pakistan doesn't have nukes, it's all made up. That's why every country pisses their pants on the sight of Pakistan's nukes including yours truly. Nukes are the only reason keeping the US and India out of Pakistan.


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## Solomon2

F.O.X said:


> You are Sitting in our Backyard , All the mess you have made we have to clean it up -


True or not, nowadays nobody believes that such claims from Pakistanis are anything other than $h!t.


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## skydrill_2

Karachiite said:


> No Pakistan doesn't have nukes, it's all made up. That's why every country pisses their pants on the sight of Pakistan's nukes including yours truly. Nukes are the only reason keeping the US and India out of Pakistan.



US is our godfather they save the whole of europe!...


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## F.O.X

Solomon2 said:


> True or not, nowadays nobody believes that such claims from Pakistanis are anything other than $h!t.



All thanks to you ? Thank you Friends . you have been so much help for us .

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## Imran Khan

Oldman1 said:


> Don't cry when more mosques and bases get attacked by your own Muslim brethren. Unless you don't cry at all because its acceptable.



we are not crying we are fighting like braves its usa pissed off. 11 years of war and still 75% afghanistan is under taliban and number of taliban is today more then it was in 2001 . and still daily attacks on kabul


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## Solomon2

Oldman1 said:


> Don't cry when more mosques and bases get attacked by your own Muslim brethren. Unless you don't cry at all because its acceptable.


The hard core will believe what they want to believe and invent new conspiracy theories to support them, each as unprovable as the one before, with faith that should be invested in God going to prop up human invention instead. Thus for religious Pakistanis their spiritualism - their closeness to God - necessarily drops into the toilet, while for non-religious Pakistanis the corruption of their hearts increases further.

I hope Israel never again becomes such a basket case, such as Josephus described before the Romans destroyed the Second Temple.


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## sid426

KRAIT said:


> What's shab e qader...



The night when Quran was revealed to Prophet Mohammed.


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## Solomon2

F.O.X said:


> All thanks to you ? Thank you Friends . you have been so much help for us .


I can't really claim such credit.


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## Tehmasib

ALL 8 TERRORIST HAS BEEN KILLED AND SEARCHING OPERATION IS UNDER WAY


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## ajtr

If I'm not wrong this air base houses nuke...please confirm??????????


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## Emmie

ajtr said:


> If I'm not wrong this air base houses nuke...please confirm??????????



No it does not..


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## Oldman1

F.O.X said:


> You are Sitting in our Backyard , All the mess you have made we have to clean it up , you & your Allies are Running out of Afg since you cannot Win & control half of Afg we are now left with the mess , So Yes Pakistan has the Complete Right to tell US what they need to Do in Afg , you are Running away after loosing a War , we have to stay here forever ,



Military trainers and funding are still going to be provided beyond 2014 withdrawal. Afghans have to learn how to manage the country without the need to depend on U.S. Nobody is running away. Taliban are running away to Pakistan. You notice the drop in attacks in the winter? Pakistan can't even control its own country! 



> So Yes , Who THE HELL IS US to tell us what we need to do ? we are a Sovereign country we know what is in our best interest, We said to close borders because we knew you will never that , as if you did your own funded Terrorists will be killed , and US will have nothing to destabilize Pakistan.



We ask you guys to launch operation but you guys probably never do that because of your own funded terrorists will be killed. More useful to use against India of course.



> You lost 3000 people in Twin tower Attack , & in return you killed half a million innocent civilians in the Name of war of terror , So you tell me WHo is the Real Terrorist ?



OMG now you expect that when we lose that many we only inflict the same amount? Now I'm dealing with a naive person. Not to mention most of the people killed are by your own brethren. Muslims! Thats right Muslims. 



> as i said before , people like you are teh once , who think you Saints & have the Right to tell others what to do , while every one who does not listen to you is a Terrorist .
> 
> Answer me this .
> 
> 1 . You started war in IRaq to Find Nuclear Weapons , DID you FIND THEM ???
> 2. You Started War in Afg , to ERIDICATE TALIBAN , DID YOU ACCOMPLISHED THAT ??



Iraq used WMDs back in the 80s its a well known fact. DO YOU DENY IT??

War in Afghanistan is ongoing, how do you expect to ask that question. That be like saying did you win World War 2 just six months after Pearl Harbor attack.


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## ajtr

Emmie said:


> No it does not..


Thanks emmie...................


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## sid426

Can anybody give me a gist of the attack? How many terrorists were there? How many Security personnel got killed? Were any aircrafts damaged?


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## Tehmasib

ATTOCK: The valiant personnel of Pakistan Air Force and SSG Commandoes of Pak Army have completed the operation against the attackers at Kamra air base in which all eight militants have been killed while search for more miscreants is still underway in the surrounding area of the facility, sources said Thursday.

According to PAF spokesman, seven to eight militants stormed into PAF Base Minhas and in a two-way clash all eight were killed while one body of a suicide bomber, a foreigner, strapped with explosives has been found close to the impact area. One security man was also martyred in the attack.

&#8220;The aircraft parked at the base are safe and no J-F Thunder planes were present at the facility,&#8221; he confirmed.

There are reports of six security personnel being injured, one of whom is said to be in critical condition.

A C-130 aircraft is flying over the area of impact to help locate the hiding militants, if any.

Earlier, nine-ten militants, disguised in security forces&#8217; uniform, launched an armed attack on Kamrah airbase in the wee hours of Thursday where fierce gun-battle took place and blasts were also heard. 

The militants made their way into the base from the direction of Pind Salman Makhan.

The intrusion was followed by a gun-battle between security forces and assailants which started at 2:00 AM and continued till 6:00 AM.

The militants also used hand grenades in the attack, sources said.

Normally, about thirty aircraft remain parked at Kamra airbase.

Meanwhile, the Ministry of Interior has ordered to beef up security in and around all the airports and airbases of the country. Order has also been issued to step up security in Islamabad and Rawalpindi.

It may be mentioned here that Karachi Naval Base, PNS Mehran had been attacked in a similar manner on May 22, 2011. The militants had killed several Naval personnel besides destroying two P-3C Orion aircraft.


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## Oldman1

Imran Khan said:


> we are not crying we are fighting like braves its usa pissed off. 11 years of war and still 75% afghanistan is under taliban and number of taliban is today more then it was in 2001 . and still daily attacks on kabul



Uh no that wouldn't be true otherwise the Taliban wouldn't have to hide in Pakistan would it? Why does the Taliban always talk about Spring Offensive each year?

But now I know you guys accept that Muslims kill other Muslims. Hence why you don't cry.


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## Shardul.....the lion

Rest in peace to the soldier died in bravery.

Its good that all the militants are sent to hell with minimum damage to prime assets.


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## Tehmasib

sid426 said:


> Can anybody give me a gist of the attack? How many terrorists were there? How many Security personnel got killed? Were any aircrafts damaged?



dear only security personal has been mytered and two injured ......


----------



## clmeta

So you agree the attackers were sons of Khyber?


RazPaK said:


> No need to be to naive. These men being from our tribal areas could never have pulled off such a dastardly feat. They were hired guns and traoned by the best.


----------



## Imran Khan

ajtr said:


> If I'm not wrong this air base houses nuke...please confirm??????????



we have every base nuclear base maam 


*
Whole of PAF made nuclear: Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed*
10:32 AM \




Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed on Tuesday said that the whole of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has been made nuclear with the aim to giving it the status of a real deterrent force. &#8220;We have made the whole of PAF a nuclear force&#8221;, he said while talking to media after launch of a book titled &#8220;A new dawn of PAF&#8221; on PAF development during a decade till 2008. The PAF has achieved such a deterrence level that no one can cast an evil eye on the motherland, he said. Air Chief&#8209;designate Air Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman (Deputy Chief of Air Staff perations), who will take over the PAF&#8217;s command on Wednesday was also present with the Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed on the accession.


Air Marshal Rao is architect of an effective strategy to deal with the Indian threat of carrying out surgical strikes against Pakistan. Due to this strategy the adversary had to shelve its nefarious plan of surgical operations. Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmmod Ahmed said that the country achieved nuclear power back in 1998 with the aim that the defence of the country be made impregnable and over the years PAF has been able to successfully achieve the target. &#8220;We fought two wars with India in 1965 and 1971 and prevented three imminent wars in 1998, 2002 and in recent days in the aftermath of Mumbai attacks.&#8221; India had threatened Pakistan of undertaking surgical strikes against her but seeing the level of preparedness and alertness of PAF the looming dangers from the adversary were averted effectively, which showed that the attainment of nuclear power has helped in achieving peace in the region.


&#8220;It helped deter any misadventure in the region.&#8221; he said. Answering a question, he said 95 % of PAF personnel and officers are not out to earn livelihood but they joined PAF with the passion to defend the motherland through obtaining mastery over the machine and ammo. Talking about the last ten years, the Air Chief said the PAF today is much more effective and potent force than what it was in 1998 and it shall continue to excel further with the passage of time. Earlier, making remarks at the book launching, the Air Chief termed all the sanctions imposed by the west from time to time in the past a s blessing in disguise saying &#8220;this helped us a lot to achieve indiginization of technology. It has brought us at the higher pedestal.&#8221; &#8220;We would have not gone nuclear. We are now a nuclear state and it is all due to the sanctions,&#8221; he said.


The co&#8209;production with China of a modern fighter aircraft like JF&#8209;17 Thunder is also an outcome of the sanctions. &#8220;We achieved all that with minimal spending while living within our limited financial resources.&#8221; About the book he said the author Alan Warne (Editor of UK based Air Forces Monthly) has written the book on his own as the PAF had facilitated the writer to carry out his work with an unbiased approach independently. He appreciated the efforts of the writer for creating a masterpiece within a short span of about 15 months. He said the book covers past, present and future of the PAF, presenting salute to heros of the force besides shedding light on future plans. He also appreciated the services of former Director Public Relations (Air) Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan for facilitating the author for accomplishment of his task.


He also mentioned the DPR (Air) Air Commodore Humayun and his able team in the Directorate. Earlier, the author of the book said that the PAF during the last 40 years had been undergoing sanctions and despite all that what it has achieved is highly appreciable. PAF is the only air force of the world which has been co&#8209;building modern fighter aircraft like JF&#8209;17 Thunder, he said. Chairman International Relations Department of Quaid&#8209;e&#8209;Azam University Islamabad Prof. Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed and Assistant Professor of Strategic Studies Quaid&#8209;e&#8209;Azam University also spoke about the book. A large number of senior officers of PAF attended the function.
Meanwhile, in an interview with a TV channel, the air chief said that during his tenure, several agreements, worth $9 billion, were reached with different countries to modernise the PAF.He said the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) was being obtained from Sweden and China.He said agreements had been reached with the US to provide electronic warfare system, smart bombs and long-range missile system. He said air-to-air refuellers were being modified and after some time, its pilot programme would be matured.He said the PAF was the only institute in the public sector, which was totally online. Responding to a question, he said the PAF had almost 550 aircrafts, including helicopters and transport aircrafts.The number of fighter planes was around 350, he added. At the moment, he said, there were 46 F-16 aircrafts in the PAF, including 14 F-16 aircrafts obtained from the US almost free of cost.





*PAF goes nuclear; Air chief says $9 bn being spent on upgrading*

ISLAMABAD: Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed on Tuesday said that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had been made nuclear for giving it the status of a real deterrent force.

He expressed these views while talking to the media after launching of a book, titled &#8220;A new dawn of PAF&#8221;. Air Chief-designate Air Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman was also present on the occasion.

*Tanvir said: &#8220;We have made the whole of PAF a nuclear force.&#8221;* He said the PAF had achieved such a deterrence level that no one could cast an evil eye on the motherland.

He added that the country achieved nuclear power back in 1998, aimed at defending the country. Over the years, he said, the PAF had been able to successfully achieve the target. &#8220;We fought two wars with India in 1965 and 1971 and prevented three imminent wars in 1998, 2002 and in the recent days in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks,&#8221; he added.

India had threatened Pakistan of undertaking surgical strikes but seeing the level of preparedness and alertness of the PAF, the looming dangers were averted, which showed that the attainment of nuclear power helped in achieving peace in the region.

&#8220;It helped deter any misadventure in the region,&#8221; he said. Answering a question, he said 95 per cent of the PAF personnel and officers were not out to earn livelihood, but they joined the PAF with the passion to defend the motherland through obtaining mastery over the machine and ammo.

He said at the moment, the PAF was a much more effective and potent force than what it was in 1998 and it would continue to excel further with the passage of time. Earlier, making remarks at the book launching, he termed all the sanctions imposed by the west from time to time a blessing in disguise. &#8220;It has brought us at the higher pedestal.&#8221;

He said: &#8220;We would have not gone nuclear. We are now a nuclear state and it is all due to the sanctions.&#8221; The co-production with China of a modern fighter aircraft like the JF-17 Thunder was also an outcome of the sanctions, he added.

&#8220;We achieved all that with minimal spending while living within our limited financial resources,&#8221; the air chief said. About the book, he said the author, Alan Warne, the editor of the UK-based Air Forces Monthly, had written the book on his own, as the PAF had facilitated the writer to carry out his work with an unbiased approach independently. Earlier, the author, Alan Warne, said the PAF had been undergoing sanctions during the last 40 years and despite all that, what it had achieved was highly appreciable.

Meanwhile, in an interview with a TV channel, the air chief said that during his tenure, several agreements, worth $9 billion, were reached with different countries to modernise the PAF.

He said the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) was being obtained from Sweden and China.

He said agreements had been reached with the US to provide electronic warfare system, smart bombs and long-range missile system. He said air-to-air refuellers were being modified and after some time, its pilot programme would be matured.

He said the PAF was the only institute in the public sector, which was totally online. Responding to a question, he said the PAF had almost 550 aircrafts, including helicopters and transport aircrafts.

The number of fighter planes was around 350, he added. At the moment, he said, there were 46 F-16 aircrafts in the PAF, including 14 F-16 aircrafts obtained from the US almost free of cost.

End.

PAF goes nuclear; Air chief says $9 bn being spent on upgrading


----------



## F.O.X

Air Cmdr Muhammad Aazam , is among the injured , he was Leading the operation .


----------



## Dance

Tehmasib said:


> &#8220;The aircraft parked at the base are safe and no J-F Thunder planes were present at the facility,&#8221; he confirmed.
> .



So now they're saying no aircraft was damaged?


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## clmeta

If this had happened in India, you would have used the same factors(training, equipment etc) to say that it was an inside job.
This must have had some inside cooperation like the Mehran attack


HAIDER said:


> But everyone on media raising one point, these type of terrorist attack are " well financed " , well planned, information provided, planning, with good weapon and all night vision equipment


----------



## sms

^^^ In situation like this info always confuses. Let PAF do assessment and wait for final media briefing.

RIP to deceased soldiers!


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## sid426

Tehmasib said:


> dear only security personal has been mytered and two injured ......



thanks.


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## Oldman1

clmeta said:


> If this had happened in India, you would have used the same factors(training, equipment etc) to say that it was an inside job.
> This must have had some inside cooperation like the Mehran attack



Not to mention previous attacks with the right uniforms to get inside. Attacks on Pakistani General HQ back in 2009 as well as now.


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## Kobalt

For God's sakes, does it even matter if both sides are Muslim? This is a matter of Pakistan and its internal enemies; no time for your racist bullsh**. This ain't 2001, and this isn't DC. This is Pakistan, an issue of Pakistan's well-being and the safety of its interests/people. I don't care if my country and Pak are supposed to be "mad" at each other, it's time to shut up about all this irrelevant d*ck-sizing contests or "conspiracy theories."

So have any aircraft been damaged, or not? I'm getting mixed messages from several sites and since I only have access to my less-than-reliable NBC news, I'm confused about what's true or not.

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## Dance

Kobalt said:


> So have any aircraft been damaged, or not? I'm getting mixed messages from several sites and since I only have access to my less-than-reliable NBC news, I'm confused about what's true or not.



The media in Pakistan is also giving out mixed messages. So we don't know for sure. 

One aircraft may have been slightly damaged.

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## sanddy

Pakistani Air Force Base With
Nuclear Ties Is Attacked

I think US is going to raise the question about the safety of nuclear weapons...


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## Patriot

According to Air Force Officials
1) NO AIR CRAFT WAS DAMAGED ( Express Tribune just assumed that aircraft was damaged because they saw one from outside the base so they thought it was within the range of terrorists). Only one credible site is reporting that one aircraft was damaged (But it was minor damage).
2) 2 Pakistani Commandos Killed
3) All 7 Attackers Dispatched to Hell. Express News reports that the shifts at the base change at 2am and firing had begun during that time. Personnel present at the base had managed to hold the militants.
4) Search Operation Underway and Bomb Disposal Team on Site (Just in case).


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## Imran Khan

Dance said:


> The media in Pakistan is also giving out mixed messages. So we don't know for sure.
> 
> One aircraft may have been slightly damaged.



those ADA jets always parked outside


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## pakdefender

Oldman1 said:


> *Who the hell does Pakistan tell us what we need to do in Afghanistan Asking us to close Afghan borders when to launch operaation to prevent terrorists from escaping to Afghanistan huh??? ?* Tell me! Pakistan is the devil itself with all those bombs blowing up in mosques and at markets. Terrorists around the world traveling to Pakistan for training. Indeed its the devil itself in Asia. Look at yourself and figure out why so many terrorists die in your country by drones or special ops raids.



im glad we have started telling you stuff like it needed to be told from the start.

your newly trained pets in afghanistan are giving a whole new meaning to making you eat lead at meal times hence you have tried to take out your frustration on Pakistan by sponsoring this terrorist attack on JF-17 manufacturing facility along with indian collaboration.

but alas the ding dong terrorist rats that you hired for this attack have now been dispatched to hell with not the kind of firworks that you had hoped for.


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## sid426

The only nation which gains from this attack is US. Look at the timing of attack, just a day after questions were raised about the security of Pakistani Nuclear arsenal.

We, the common masses, don't get the real news, the news which reaches us is a mere refuse of the great political games played at the world level.


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## Rafi

SSW and SSG Special Forces have killed all the terrorists, all the takfiri were wearing suicide vests, Aircraft were the target - one PAF personnel martyred, one SSW Commando wounded, base commander wounded out of danger, updated no confirmation of any damage to aircraft. 

Last suicide bomber was cornered by Special Forces was told to surrender, refused - was taken out by SSG Sniper with a head shot, explosives were detonated - resulting in the guy being vaporized.


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## Imran Khan

Mirage2000 said:


> This lady is trolling uncle g shes here for her usual everyday Pakistan bashing, If they dont do it "Inko khana hazam nahi hota", Ignore her.



mujhy pata hai she is farigh like me and need attention  buddhy logoon ki kamzoori


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## Dance

Imran Khan said:


> those ADA jets always parked outside



Yeah.

We don't know for sure if they were damaged or not.


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## Imran Khan

Agni5000 said:


> Looking at these attacks. Coward Musharaf must be shitting in pant. he will not return to pakistan for sure.


 who need him in pakistan ? you ?

he has 0.01% papularity in pakistan now a days


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## pakdefender

sanddy said:


> Pakistani Air Force Base With
> Nuclear Ties Is Attacked
> 
> I think US is going to raise the question about the safety of nuclear weapons...




LOL ... so as a result of poor intel on our nukes they sent the terrorists to the worng target


----------



## Kobalt

pakdefender said:


> im glad we have started telling you stuff like it needed to be told from the start.
> 
> your newly trained pets in afghanistan are giving a whole new meaning to making you eat lead at meal times hence you have tried to take out your frustration on Pakistan by *sponsoring this terrorist attack on JF-17 manufacturing facility along with indian collaboration.*
> 
> but alas the ding dong terrorist rats that you hired for this attack have now been dispatched to hell with not the kind of firworks that you had hoped for.


Let's not be too sure USA funded this attack. I know conspiracies are born fast, but I think it's too early to play the blame game.

If USA DID do this however, I'm so out of this place, I mean Obama's already a disgusting killer lmao, but this would be the straw that breaks this camel's back


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## karan.1970

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/w...force-base-with-nuclear-ties-is-attacked.html

*Pakistani Air Force Base With Nuclear Ties Is Attacked*

KARACHI, Pakistan &#8212; Suspected Islamist militants attacked a major Pakistani Air Force base where some of the country&#8217;s nuclear weapons are thought to be stored in the early hours of Thursday, setting off an exchange of fire that lasted several hours.

Security forces battled attackers until dawn at the Minhas air force base, west of the capital, Islamabad, according to reports on Pakistani television. At least one militant was killed and several others were wounded.

The base, in the Attock district of Punjab, is believed to be one of the locations where part of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear stockpile, estimated to include at least 100 warheads, is stored. The assault came amid mounting speculation that Pakistan&#8217;s military was preparing to carry out an operation in the militant stronghold of North Waziristan, in the tribal belt &#8212; a longstanding demand of the United States.

Early reports suggested that the attackers, some wearing suicide jackets, were targeting JF-17 fighter jets at the base that could be used in such an operation.

It was not clear how many warplanes were stationed at the base, or whether any were damaged in the assault.

Militants have attacked the base twice already &#8212; in 2007, when a suicide bomber hit a bus near the entrance, and in 2008, when militants fired several rockets into the base.

Militants have attacked the base twice already &#8212; in 2007, when a suicide bomber hit a bus near the entrance, and in 2008, when militants fired several rockets into the base.

The latest assault resembled a May 2011 assault on a military base in Karachi in which at least two American-built surveillance aircraft were destroyed. It was not entirely unexpected.

On Aug. 10, the newspaper The Express Tribune, quoting intelligence officials, reported that the Pakistani Taliban were planning to attack an air force base near Lahore before the religious holiday of Id al-Fitr, which is expected to fall around Monday.

Arif Rafiq, an adjunct scholar at Middle East Institute in Washington, noted that the attack coincided with the speculation about a military operation in North Waziristan. &#8220;The Taliban are telling Pakistan&#8217;s leadership, &#8216;If you hit us here, we&#8217;ll hit you everywhere,&#8217; &#8221; he said.

Salman Masood contributed reporting.


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## miss

Imran Khan said:


> mujhy pata hai she is farigh like me and need attention  buddhy logoon ki kamzoori


i dont know whats farigh.. i didnt knw early 20s is buddhay in pak.


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## Dance

According to express tribune:

8 suspects arrested, militant's mobile phone recovered. 

Militants attack PAF airbase in Kamra &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## miss

it could be insider job, see there is literally no casualty on pak side. they wanted to preempt this attack and blame US, so that the US dont send no one.

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## Hashshāshīn

sid426 said:


> The only nation which gains from this attack is US. Look at the timing of attack, just a day after questions were raised about the security of Pakistani Nuclear arsenal.
> 
> We, the common masses, don't get the real news, the news which reaches us is a mere refuse of the great political games played at the world level.


It's already been said that the air base didn't have nukes. US just trying to create propaganda as usual.


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## Mirage2000

karan.1970 said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/w...force-base-with-nuclear-ties-is-attacked.html
> 
> *Pakistani Air Force Base With Nuclear Ties Is Attacked*
> 
> KARACHI, Pakistan &#8212; Suspected Islamist militants attacked a major Pakistani Air Force base where some of the country&#8217;s nuclear weapons are thought to be stored in the early hours of Thursday, setting off an exchange of fire that lasted several hours.
> 
> Security forces battled attackers until dawn at the Minhas air force base, west of the capital, Islamabad, according to reports on Pakistani television. At least one militant was killed and several others were wounded.
> 
> The base, in the Attock district of Punjab, is believed to be one of the locations where part of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear stockpile, estimated to include at least 100 warheads, is stored. The assault came amid mounting speculation that Pakistan&#8217;s military was preparing to carry out an operation in the militant stronghold of North Waziristan, in the tribal belt &#8212; a longstanding demand of the United States.
> 
> Early reports suggested that the attackers, some wearing suicide jackets, were targeting JF-17 fighter jets at the base that could be used in such an operation.
> 
> It was not clear how many warplanes were stationed at the base, or whether any were damaged in the assault.
> 
> Militants have attacked the base twice already &#8212; in 2007, when a suicide bomber hit a bus near the entrance, and in 2008, when militants fired several rockets into the base.
> 
> Militants have attacked the base twice already &#8212; in 2007, when a suicide bomber hit a bus near the entrance, and in 2008, when militants fired several rockets into the base.
> 
> The latest assault resembled a May 2011 assault on a military base in Karachi in which at least two American-built surveillance aircraft were destroyed. It was not entirely unexpected.
> 
> On Aug. 10, the newspaper The Express Tribune, quoting intelligence officials, reported that the Pakistani Taliban were planning to attack an air force base near Lahore before the religious holiday of Id al-Fitr, which is expected to fall around Monday.
> 
> Arif Rafiq, an adjunct scholar at Middle East Institute in Washington, noted that the attack coincided with the speculation about a military operation in North Waziristan. &#8220;The Taliban are telling Pakistan&#8217;s leadership, &#8216;If you hit us here, we&#8217;ll hit you everywhere,&#8217; &#8221; he said.
> 
> Salman Masood contributed reporting.



Already posted in this thread and Nuclear BS debunked in Reuters story.



> Only one aircraft was damaged, an air force spokesman said, adding that the Minhas air base at Kamra, in central Punjab province, did not house nuclear weapons. "No air base is a nuclear air base in Pakistan," he said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/16/us-pakistan-airforcebase-idUSBRE87E1C620120816

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## danger007

why are they targetting armed forces base??????


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## Imran Khan

miss said:


> it could be insider job, see there is literally no casualty on pak side. they wanted to preempt this attack and blame US, so that the US dont send no one.



don't watch ZEE TV saas bahu serials its harm brain cells from conspiracies


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## clmeta

Even if it is an inside job, it is not mean to blame US. It must be meant to cooperate with the US to launch a much desired operation in North Waziristan.
However, it is too early to conclude its an inside operation. Lets wait for details and not rush in judgement.


miss said:


> it could be insider job, see there is literally no casualty on pak side. they wanted to preempt this attack and blame US, so that the US dont send no one.


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## Rafi

IMU - is an initial suspect - the takfiri have some Cyrillic writing on their persons according to one source - not been confirmed - their target was airforce aircraft.


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## miss

Imran Khan said:


> don't watch ZEE TV saas bahu serials its harm brain cells from conspiracies


lol jo conspiraies wahaan hatch hote hein, henry kissinger bhi nahin kar paata

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## danger007

Pak should take it serious, my god attacking naval and air force bases


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## Rafi

No nuclear weapons or material is kept at the base. I know this for a fact.


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## pakdefender

jems




> it could be insider job, see there is literally no casualty on pak side. they wanted to preempt this attack and blame US, so that the US dont send no one.








> Pakistani Air Force Base With Nuclear Ties Is Attacked



Kamra's entrance is close to the main GT road ... as if we'll keep nukes next to a main road 
like i said indians got it worng and passed on wrong info to the ding dong tribal terrorists



danger007 said:


> Pak should take it serious, my god attacking naval and air force bases



Pak should atack india

india along with the US is sponsoring these terrorists.

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## clmeta

Some news analyst is saying that militants might have done it to preempt the operation in NW.


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## miss

pakdefender said:


> jems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kamra's entrance is close to the main GT road ... as if we'll keep nukes next to a main road
> like i said indians got it worng and passed on wrong info to the ding dong tribal terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> Pak should atack india
> 
> india along with the US is *sponsoring *these terrorists.


is kryakram ka praayojak hai.. Nirma..
(the sponsor of this program is...)


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## pakdefender

we should get hold of journalists that are receiving calls from these thugs about their activities , they part of this problem

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## neutral_person

Rafi said:


> No nuclear weapons or material is kept at the base. I know this for a fact.



Of course not actual nukes, but information on nuclear installations is possible. The article says "Pakistani Air Force Base With Nuclear Ties Is Attacked", so these bases might have top secret information that the terrorists wanted.


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## Imran Khan

looking at previous attacks this time our guys did well job no damage no much loses of lives and no hard time of hours fight . we must appreciate them for this quick and less harmful action . from my side i am satisfied from this operation

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## clmeta

Militants attack Kamra air base - V - YouTube


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## Gessler

How many more of these bases will be attacked? How's it going to be in wartime if its like
this even when there's no war? How can pak military combat enemies while terrorists start
storming their bases like this? Maybe aircraft will have to be allocated to defend the air base
first and then think of attacking the enemy.

JF-17s and Saab-2000 AWACS are kept in Kamra I think. The Erieye is such a high-value target,
just 1 loss can kill much of PAF's force-multiplier capabilities. Its strange such valuable assets like
these AWACS and those P-3C Orion MPAs are measly protected against little gun-trotters with RDX.


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## SamranAli

now propaganda war has started so we should tell our stupid media not to join league and defend.

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## karan.1970

Rafi said:


> No nuclear weapons or material is kept at the base. I know this for a fact.



 this means you are privy to nuclear secrets that even Pakistani PM (as claimed by some members here) is not aware of.. Yes I believe you


----------



## clmeta

Can you elaborate?


SamranAli said:


> now propaganda war has started so we should tell our stupid media not to join league and defend.


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## SamranAli

and militants are foriegner as per news.


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## Imran Khan

SamranAli said:


> and militants are foriegner as per news.



uzbik or afghani i am sure one of them


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## Gessler

The commandos did good this time right. But such attacks will probably grow over time,
it can cripple pak-s warfighting capability if air bases are under constant threat of internal
enemies. Ive read PA will launch major ops in NW soon, thats a good move to wipe out
terrorists before they do worse things.


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## rohailmalhi

It is very sad indeed . They should have increased the security by many folds and they should have moved all the assets out of the base like c130s , Saab , other important planes.......... even though they still they manage to avoid any major losses. Good job i would say .

May Allah (S.W.T) grant Jannah to the martyed and give quick health to the injured ones........ 



And the people who are saying that these scum bags were not funded by foreigners , heres a hint Y DO THESE SCUM bAGS always go for Planes , in Mehran base attack it was p3 orion and in this attack they were suppose to hit Saab. So one can easily see who is getting benefit if Pakistan dont have saab or p3s.................


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## The Deterrent

karan.1970 said:


> this means you are privy to nuclear secrets that even Pakistani PM (as claimed by some members here) is not aware of.. Yes I believe you



Information is given on need-to-know basis. Political leaders don't need to know the locations.

However, the claims from some Pakistanis that NOBODY knows where the nukes are, are baseless. The concerned officials know exactly where they are. The Americans and possibly the Indians know where they are. Its just that they cannot do ANYTHING about them.

And terrorists don't have the capability to SOMEHOW snatch the nukes, so sweet dreams for them.


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## SamranAli

PAF has decided to release photos of terorrist. Now what i said earlier that they are US trained is true.


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## The Deterrent

double post


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## Mirage2000

Double Post


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## Mirage2000

neutral_person said:


> Of course not actual nukes, but information on nuclear installations is possible. The article says "Pakistani Air Force Base With Nuclear Ties Is Attacked", so these bases might have top secret information that the terrorists wanted.


You didn't read the article you didn't read the last page of this thread.



> The base, in the Attock district of Punjab, is believed to be one of the locations where part of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear stockpile, estimated to include at least 100 warheads, is stored


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/wo...-attacked.html

*Debunked!*



> Only one aircraft was damaged, an air force spokesman said, adding that the Minhas air base at Kamra, in central Punjab province, did not house nuclear weapons. "No air base is a nuclear air base in Pakistan," he said.


Militants attack major Pakistan air base; 9 killed | Reuters

Hell i cant figure out why you don't bother to read things and go blindly with titles.


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## clmeta

They figured out very quickly. May be the militants were carrying their Al Qaida Id cards or whatever jihad/mujahideen organisation they work for.


SamranAli said:


> and militants are foriegner as per news.


----------



## RazPaK

Such a sophisticated attack can not be carried out by angry Waziri tribesmen. Obviously the establishment already knows this.

The CIA are using and training hired guns to carry out these attacks to dismantle Pakistani nuclear assets, and create a foothold within Pakistan. 

Everybody in my family (military family) thinks Kiyani is a traitor and has been sold out.


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## Dance

clmeta said:


> They figured out very quickly. May be the militants were carrying their Al Qaida Id cards or whatever jihad/mujahideen organisation they work for.



They recovered their cell phones.


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## Imran Khan

remember these?


KARACHI: Four terrorists killed during PNS Mehran operation had been identified in terms of their nationality as 3 among them were Uzbek and one was Afghan national.


----------



## TOPGUN

Wow man the trolling is in full swing some of you indians live for it i swer ..no human feelings nor thoughts or prayers for human life lost in general forget it for us Pakistani's from so many of you indians shame on you .. you guys are filled with hate really sick jerks.


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## pakdefender

these ding dong tribal terrorists are enemies of the Pakistani state and we should treat them like enemies , the targets they choose are handed down to them by their paymasters


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## SamranAli

Imran Khan said:


> uzbik or afghani i am sure one of them


 yup they are afghani and central asian mean uzbiks.


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## HAIDER

All 8 dead terrorist foreigner ....pictures wll be posted by PAF in next few hours


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## SamranAli

indians are enjoying the day.


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## HAIDER

There are currently 176 users browsing this thread. (52 members and 126 guests)

set new thread strike record ???. Any way good job PAF


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## Dance

They've identified the terrorists and they're foreigners.

Wouldn't be surprised if they are Afghans or Central Asians


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## sms

RazPaK said:


> Such a sophisticated attack can not be carried out by angry Waziri tribesmen. Obviously the establishment already knows this.
> 
> The CIA are using and training hired guns to carry out these attacks to dismantle Pakistani nuclear assets, and create a foothold within Pakistan.
> 
> Everybody in my family (military family) thinks Kiyani is a traitor and has been sold out.



Raz Pak...Amerika ka namak kha kar usi ko gali de rahe ho ..oye shabashe!!

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## Roybot

Wonder why TTP always goes for the force multipliers! Anyways has TTP taken the responsibility yet?


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## danger007

SamranAli said:


> indians are enjoying the day.



what@an idiotic guess... 
wh


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## mirza555

almost 1.5 hours ago the base was completly under control of soldiers......an Air comodor was injured but now he is well......


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## sms

SamranAli said:


> indians are enjoying the day.




What is there to enjoy? Loss of life of brave soldiers or no loss of PAF assets? 
Shame Shame!! if you have little bit of slf pride or dignity left refrain from such one liners

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## clmeta

Why should we enjoy it?
But even if the attack is midway, people have started to blame India.
Although most people are saying attackers are Afghans/Uzebeks etc.



SamranAli said:


> indians are enjoying the day.


----------



## pakdefender

Roybot said:


> *Wonder why TTP always goes for the force multipliers! *Anyways has TTP taken the responsibility yet?




Because that&#8217;s what india pays them to target , AWACs and JF-17 are not operational against these low life terrorist sitting in the tribal area but of course AWACs , P3-ORION , JF-17 are India centric 
So don&#8217;t try to act naive as to why these rats attack these particular targets

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## clmeta

Keep trolling.
You guys just need an enemy to stop your infighting.


pakdefender said:


> beacuse thats what they are piad to target by india


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## mirza555

you are right 110% @samran


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## SpArK

pakdefender said:


> beacuse thats what they are piad to target by india



We are poor country.. we dont have money to pay them.. 

Also TTPs are not using VISA card or taking bank transfer as it is now deemed Haram.

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## sms

Dance said:


> They've identified the terrorists and they're foreigners.
> 
> Wouldn't be surprised if they are Afghans or Central Asians



Plausible! but you should wait for official report!

As mentioned by many Pakistani members that these are very well equipped and well trained. My guess is that these dead scrums are the one hired by Pakistan to kill innocent Indian&#8217;s in Kashmir, now attacking Pak assets due to delayed / nonpayment from your security/ intelligence establishments.


----------



## pakdefender

SamranAli said:


> indians are enjoying the day.



thats their nature , they celebrate Pakistan's loss

afghans are not that much far behind in celebrating Pakistan's loss , same with US

too many entities around Pakistan like to see our loss , unfortunately

but we shall stand tall and overcome all that our enmies throw at us

we have been at war since our birth and by God we will previal over all our enmies ... Insha Allah

may Allah bless those who have lost their lives in defence of the homeland


----------



## Dance

sms said:


> My guess is that these dead scrums are the one hired by Pakistan to kill innocent Indian&#8217;s in Kashmir, now attacking Pak assets due to delayed / nonpayment from your security/ intelligence establishments.



Cool story!

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## Roybot

pakdefender said:


> *Because that&#8217;s what india pays them to target , *AWACs and JF-17 are not operational against these low life terrorist sitting in the tribal area but of course AWACs , P3-ORION , JF-17 are India centric
> So don&#8217;t try to act naive as to why these rats attack these particular targets



Doesn't have to be India. I guess they are willing to hit whatever they are asked to as long they keep getting the funds and weapons in return(procuring which seems like a childs play in Pakistan).

These people have agenda of their own as well, it would be almost impossible to motivate someone to attack a military base just for money!


----------



## S.A.

gessler said:


> How many more of these bases will be attacked? How's it going to be in wartime if its like
> this even when there's no war?



My friend we are in state of war since we joined WoT.


----------



## Black Widow

pakdefender said:


> thats their nature , they celebrate Pakistan's loss




flawed claim....


----------



## MM_Haider

hats off to our brave soldiers.. but the point is that if there was a clear warning from Intelligence Agencies that PAF base was to be attacked.. why the plan was not foiled before hand?? Our Intelligence Agency should work like FBI or CIA.. who never let anything like this happen at all..


----------



## miss

there was just one soldier who was lost as opposed to 8 of them. so in effect the ops was a failed one. Also good for pk that no hardware was damaged

Please dont say that indians are happy at this.


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## tarrar

I woke up at Sahri & saw the news on TV then after that I couldnt sleep, only curse was coming out of my heart against these foreign terrorists who were also most probably NOT Muslims & I was praying that our Pak Army crushes these bastards. 
The aircrafts which were there were the main targets, the main target like p3c Orions were Pakistans AWACS but thanks to ALLAH SUBHAN TALLAH nothing happened to these aircraft & they were all successfully airborne during the operation against these terrorists. Reports say there were no JF-17s in the base, well they are just reports some others reports says otherwise. 

They were all foreign terrorists & an Retired Army Officer said that they have been trained, funded & Intel was given to them by foreign powers & foreign Intel Agencies but this time I really want to see the names of who all were involved in this attack, who planned & organized these attacks. My guess is this was all done by US & NATO to press Pakistan for an operation on NWA by naming US & NATO this doesnt mean I am ruling out Indias name because attacks on Mehran Base where P3C Orions was destroyed & it had only benefited India. I am sure there is Indian involvement as well. 

I am praying that names comes out of who all were invovled in this cowardly attack.

Now after these attacks we all will see US raising Security concerns on our Nuclear Assets & they will bark as usual.

It was a great work by our Pakistan Army who had dealt with this problem quickly, I pray for their success & safety always AMEEN.


----------



## pakdefender

Markus said:


> Pakistan's nuclear weapons are in grave danger.
> 
> This attack was repulsed but in the next attack, the terrorists may also succeed in entering the critical complexes and take control of sensitive devices.
> 
> *Are the Americans watching this* ?



yes they are beacuse they (along wiht india) are orchestrating this


also if you indians are so much concerned about our nukes we can do a one time aerial delivery of all 100+ of our nukes over to india so that ye all can rest in peace with eternal peace of mind about our nukes once and for all , how about that ?


----------



## MoizSheikh

MM_Haider said:


> hats off to our brave soldiers.. but the point is that if there was a clear warning from Intelligence Agencies that PAF base was to be attacked.. why the plan was not foiled before hand?? Our Intelligence Agency should work like FBI or CIA.. who never let anything like this happen at all..


 
--
Are you sure?
i think u are forgetting MUMBAI ATTACK & 9/11 attack


----------



## monitor

Gunmen storm military air base in Pakistan


Tulip Mazumdar at Kamra air base said the militants were shot by security officials
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Fresh attacks rock north Pakistan 
Karachi attack: Officers face trial 

Gunmen have attacked a Pakistani military air base triggering a fierce fire-fight with security forces that lasted several hours.

Several militants wearing military uniforms and suicide belts stormed Minhas air base at Kamra, near the capital Islamabad, just after dawn.

Six militants were killed but at least one soldier also died and the base commander was seriously injured.

It is not clear if other gunmen remain unaccounted for.

All Pakistan's air bases have been placed on high alert following the attack.

Shortly after the attack began, a police officer outside the air base, Hafeez Aulakh, said he could hear intense gunfire and see flames leaping up from inside, the Associated Press news agency reported.

Militants did not reach the hangars inside the base, the air force said, although rocket-propelled grenades fired from outside are said to have damaged one aircraft.

Reporters who reached the scene several hours later said there was no sound of gunfire.


"Security personnel are now in the process of scanning the entire area," the air force spokesman said.

Base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam was reported to be seriously wounded but in a stable condition in hospital.

Earlier reports said two soldiers had died, but this was later revised.

It was not immediately clear how the attackers managed to enter the base.

Minhas is one of Pakistan's biggest air bases with about 30 fighter jets including new JF-17 planes - jointly developed with China - that are being assembled there. It is about 60km (35 miles) north-west of Islamabad.

No group has said it carried out the attack but Islamist militants linked to the Pakistani Taliban have previously targeted military bases.

In May 2011, militants attacked the Mehran naval air base in Karachi, killing 10 soldiers. 

It took security forces about 17 hours to secure the base on that occasion.

In 2009 a suicide bomber killed six people at a military checkpoint in Kamra, in Punjab province.


----------



## Oldman1

RazPaK said:


> Such a sophisticated attack can not be carried out by angry Waziri tribesmen. Obviously the establishment already knows this.
> 
> The CIA are using and training hired guns to carry out these attacks to dismantle Pakistani nuclear assets, and create a foothold within Pakistan.
> 
> Everybody in my family (military family) thinks Kiyani is a traitor and has been sold out.



LOL you guys talk about how easy Taliban can infiltrate U.S. FOB or Marine Camps when they are poorly trained. How easy to kill a couple of CIA intelligence officers with a suicide bomber. Enough said.

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## rohailmalhi

Black Widow said:


> Conspiracy theory??? Attack on Mehran base, only one casuality no aircraft destroyed. 7-8 Attackers are killed..
> 
> Look like Attackers were noob. An conspiracy theory see it like this "" Attackers were Traimned by ISI, ISI told them they will not killed but only captured. Later PAK army killed them. ""
> 
> 
> Remember similar logic was given for Mumbai attack???



Attackers were noob or not there was intelligence report already that is y all this happened so fast....... they killed all of these bastards before they can do any actual damage.........

Well ur logic is flawed ISI is not the one getting benefit by destroying it P3 orion and Saab . So plz stop acting like an idiot .

and it will be good if u dont bring Mumbai here coz then ................


----------



## tarrar

Markus said:


> Pakistan's nuclear weapons are in grave danger.
> 
> This attack was repulsed but in the next attack, the terrorists may also succeed in entering the critical complexes and take control of sensitive devices.
> 
> Are the Americans watching this ?



US will start their lies & propaganda on Pakistan Nuclear Weapons because this attack was planned & organized for many things. There is no need for you all to jump out of your seats & raise concerns on our Nuclear Weapons, don&#8217;t troll this thread nobody on this planet knows where Pakistan Nuclear Weapons are. SO SIT DOWN!!!!


----------



## clmeta

Some people still believe Muslims can't kill Muslims.
What are TTP? Budhists?


tarrar said:


> I woke up at Sahri & saw the news on TV then after that I couldnt sleep, only curse was coming out of my heart against these foreign terrorists who were also most probably NOT Muslims & I was praying that our Pak Army crushes these bastards.
> The aircrafts which were there were the main targets, the main target like p3c Orions were Pakistans AWACS but thanks to ALLAH SUBHAN TALLAH nothing happened to these aircraft & they were all successfully airborne during the operation against these terrorists. Reports say there were no JF-17s in the base, well they are just reports some others reports says otherwise.
> 
> They were all foreign terrorists & an Retired Army Officer said that they have been trained, funded & Intel was given to them by foreign powers & foreign Intel Agencies but this time I really want to see the names of who all were involved in this attack, who planned & organized these attacks. My guess is this was all done by US & NATO to press Pakistan for an operation on NWA by naming US & NATO this doesnt mean I am ruling out Indias name because attacks on Mehran Base where P3C Orions was destroyed & it had only benefited India. I am sure there is Indian involvement as well.
> 
> I am praying that names comes out of who all were invovled in this cowardly attack.
> 
> Now after these attacks we all will see US raising Security concerns on our Nuclear Assets & they will bark as usual.
> 
> It was a great work by our Pakistan Army who had dealt with this problem quickly, I pray for their success & safety always AMEEN.


----------



## Mani2020

All 9 terrorists have been killed , while one security official shaheed and one aircraft damaged by RPG hit


----------



## sanddy

tarrar said:


> I am sure there is Indian involvement as well.



How are sure that there is indian involvement without any proof???
Blaming others is not the way to counter internal problem...


----------



## tarrar

Markus said:


> Dont jump to conclusions.
> 
> If tomorrow, terrorists manage to tale control of your nuclear weapons, only the American commandos will be able to save your country.



You need to SHUT THE HELL UP. This is Pakistan Army not Indian Army who will run into their dug outs & cry to US for help just like Kargil war. 

SSG & Army did an excellent job. 

Nobody knows where Pakistan Nuclear Weapons are & by the way I knew hindis will start this topic.


----------



## pakdefender

Oldman1 said:


> LOL you guys talk about how easy Taliban can infiltrate U.S. FOB or Marine Camps when they are poorly trained. How easy to kill a couple of CIA intelligence officers with a suicide bomber. Enough said.



As the americans come under pressure in afghanistan due to green-on-blue attacks and deeper penetration of taliban into US held territory, America will sponsor more and more terrorists in Pakistan to take out its frustration.
Pakistan is not responsible for Americas failure in Afghanistan, America is the architect of its own debacle


----------



## rohailmalhi

clmeta said:


> Some people still believe Muslims can't kill Muslims.
> What are TTP? Budhists?



Non Muslim ......illertrate brainwashed people who are fighting just for money..........


----------



## The Deterrent

Markus said:


> A NUCLEAR FACILITY HAS BEEN ATTACKED.
> 
> Its not a joke.
> 
> I hope the Americans will permanently position their troops on pakistani soil. I dont want a bunch of runaway terrorists running away with nukes and then paying a game of nuclear war.



Nuclear facility? Got proof to back up your claim?


----------



## masoomchichora

Markus said:


> *Pakistan's nuclear weapons are in grave danger.
> 
> This attack was repulsed but in the next attack, the terrorists may also succeed in entering the critical complexes and take control of sensitive devices.
> 
> Are the Americans watching this ?*


yes americans are watching this but ur superpower so come and get pak nuclear weapons


----------



## miss

Markus said:


> A NUCLEAR FACILITY HAS BEEN ATTACKED.
> 
> Its not a joke.
> 
> I hope the Americans will permanently position their troops on pakistani soil. I dont want a bunch of runaway terrorists running away with nukes and then paying a game of nuclear war.


why should i let my and my future childrens lives be jeopardized


----------



## Dance

Markus said:


> A NUCLEAR FACILITY HAS BEEN ATTACKED.
> 
> Its not a joke.
> 
> I hope the Americans will permanently position their troops on pakistani soil. I dont want a bunch of runaway terrorists running away with nukes and then paying a game of nuclear war.




It is a joke because this base is not a nuclear facility, its an air force base. Go back a couple of pages, a reuters article already debunked your theory


----------



## Markus

AhaseebA said:


> Nuclear facility? Got proof to back up your claim?



Post modified.


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## miss

rohailmalhi said:


> Non Muslim ......illertrate brainwashed people who are fighting just for money..........


what about let?


----------



## MoizSheikh

Markus said:


> Dont jump to conclusions.
> 
> If tomorrow, terrorists manage to tale control of your nuclear weapons, only the American commandos will be able to save your country.



buahahahah, They can save their own lives??
No one knows where our nuclear weapons are including president of Pakistan 
Keep dreaming sweetheart


----------



## Markus

Dance said:


> It is a joke because this base is not a nuclear facility, its an air force base. Go back a couple of pages, a reuters article already debunked your theory



I meant a complex with nukes.

An attack on such a high security complex cant be a joke, seriously, wats wrong with u ppl ?


----------



## Black Widow

rohailmalhi said:


> Attackers were noob or not there was intelligence report already that is y all this happened so fast....... they killed all of these bastards before they can do any actual damage.........
> 
> Well ur logic is flawed ISI is not the one getting benefit by destroying it P3 orion and Saab . So plz stop acting like an idiot .
> 
> and it will be good if u dont bring Mumbai here coz then ................




But it was not destroyed, If it would have destroyed. Now as no hardware is destroyed, no enemy of pakistan is benefited. The big question is who is really benefited of this kind of fail attack.. How come 7 attackers were not able to get the ratio of 1:1? the ratio is 1:7 now... 

If CIA/'RAW/MOSAD/MI6 have trained them they wouldn't be so ineffective...


Update: The latest news says the kill ratio is 1:9..

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## monitor

Aug 16, 2012 - 00:52

*Militants attack major Pakistan air base; 9 killed*


By Qasim Nauman

KAMRA, Pakistan (Reuters) - Islamist militants armed with rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons fought their way into one of Pakistan's largest air bases on Thursday, the air force said, in a brazen challenge to the nuclear-armed country's powerful military.

Only one aircraft was damaged, said an air force spokesman, adding that the Minhas air base at Kamra, in central Punjab province, did not house nuclear weapons. "No air base is a nuclear air base in Pakistan," he said.

A gunbattle raged for hours after the attack started. Commandos were called in to reinforce and police armoured personnel carriers could be seen heading into the base.

Eight militants and one soldier were killed, the spokesman said. The attackers moved through a nearby village under cover of darkness and climbed a nine foot (2.7 metre) wall strung with barbed wire to break into the base. Some were wearing military uniforms.

The assault cast doubts over official assertions that military operations had severely weakened militants waging a violent campaign to topple the U.S.-backed government and impose strict Islamic rule.

Security forces opened fire when militants strapped with suicide bombing vests approached aircraft hangars, prompting other militants to fire rocket-propelled grenades from outside the base's walls, said the air force spokesman.

Base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who led the operation against the attackers, was shot in the shoulder, but is in stable condition, said spokesman Captain Tariq Mahmood.

It was not immediately clear if the attack was beaten back but a Reuters reporter who reached Kamra in the morning did not hear any gunfire. Combing and sweeping operations were still underway.

"We are checking every inch of the complex to make sure there are no other miscreants," said Mahmood.

Minhas, 75 km (45 miles) northeast of Islamabad, is adjacent to the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, a major air force research and development centre. Pakistan manufactures JF-17 fighter planes, jointly developed with China, at the site.

Suicide bombers launched attacks near the base and the aeronautical complex in 2007 and 2009, but news reports said defences were not breached.

HOLY MONTH

It was not immediately clear how the attackers managed to enter the sprawling base this time. Although the attack took place at about 2 a.m. (2100 GMT Wednesday), it is likely many of the soldiers on the base were awake for prayers or breakfast during the holy fasting month of Ramadan.

Faheemullah Khan, a civilian who lives near the base, said he was at a mosque praying when he heard gunfire and explosions which he thought were military exercises.

"Then we came to a restaurant, which is next to the main entrance to the base, and heard a louder explosion," he said.

"We saw six police vans rush in, and realised something was wrong."

Several squadrons of fighters and surveillance planes are believed to be based at Minhas.

"One body of a suicide bomber strapped with explosives has been found close to the impact area," said an air force statement.

Pakistan's Taliban movement has staged a number of high-profile attacks over the past few years, including one on army headquarters in Rawalpindi in 2009.

Last year, six Taliban gunmen attacked a naval base in Pakistan's biggest city Karachi to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden. At least 10 military personnel were killed and 20 wounded in the 16-hour assault.

Those attacks, and the latest one, are embarrassing for Pakistan's military, which has ruled the country for more than half of its 65-year history and is seen as the most efficient state institution.

The Taliban, which is close to al Qaeda, is blamed for many of the suicide bombings across Pakistan, a strategic U.S. ally.

Pakistan's military, one of the biggest in the world, has staged several offensives against Taliban strongholds in the unruly tribal areas near the border with Afghanistan.

But the operations have failed to break the back of the Taliban. Major suicide bombings have eased considerably over the past year but that could be due to a tactical shift and not pressure from the military.

(Additional reporting by Sheree Sardar in ISLAMABAD and Jibran Ahmad in PESHAWAR; Writing by Michael Georgy; Editing by Raju Gopalakrishnan)




URL of this article
Militants attack major Pakistan air base; 9 killed- swissinfo


----------



## sms

tarrar said:


> I woke up at Sahri & saw the news on TV then after that I couldnt sleep, only curse was coming out of my heart against these foreign terrorists who were also most probably *NOT Muslims *& I was praying that our Pak Army crushes these bastards.
> The aircrafts which were there were the main targets, the main target like p3c Orions were Pakistans AWACS but thanks to ALLAH SUBHAN TALLAH nothing happened to these aircraft & they were all successfully airborne during the operation against these terrorists. Reports say there were no JF-17s in the base, well they are just reports some others reports says otherwise.
> 
> They were all foreign terrorists & an Retired Army Officer said that they have been trained, funded & Intel was given to them by foreign powers & foreign Intel Agencies but this time I really want to see the names of who all were involved in this attack, who planned & organized these attacks. My guess is this was all done by US & NATO to press Pakistan for an operation on NWA by naming US & NATO this doesnt mean I am ruling out Indias name because attacks on Mehran Base where P3C Orions was destroyed & it had only benefited India. I am sure there is Indian involvement as well.
> 
> I am praying that names comes out of who all were invovled in this cowardly attack.
> 
> Now after these attacks we all will see US raising Security concerns on our Nuclear Assets & they will bark as usual.
> 
> It was a great work by our Pakistan Army who had dealt with this problem quickly, I pray for their success & safety always AMEEN.



I pity you hope almighty will give wisdom and courage to understand and face reality.
These days the biggest threat to Muslim is none other than Muslim brother!!


----------



## pakdefender

Markus said:


> A COMPLEX WITH NUKES HAS BEEN ATTACKED.
> 
> Its not a joke.
> 
> I hope the Americans will permanently position their troops on pakistani soil. I dont want a bunch of runaway terrorists running away with nukes and then paying a game of nuclear war.



so I suppose india wants Pakistani nukes delivered to it for an eternal peace of mind ? we can oblige


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## clmeta

self deletee


miss said:


> what about let?


----------



## The Deterrent

Markus said:


> Post modified.



Question still holds. Got proof that Kamra AFB houses nukes?

A PAF spokesman already said that no airbase houses nuclear weapons in Pakistan. Nuclear weapons storage facilities are separate from AFBs.

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## Dance

Markus said:


> I meant a complex with nukes.
> 
> An attack on such a high security complex cant be a joke, seriously, wats wrong with u ppl ?




*Only one aircraft was damaged, said an air force spokesman, adding that the Minhas air base at Kamra, in central Punjab province, did not house nuclear weapons. "No air base is a nuclear air base in Pakistan," he said.*


Militants attack major Pakistan air base; 9 killed- swissinfo[


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## clmeta

Why do you have to mention Non Muslim?
How would you feel if someone writes Mulsim, brainwashed and illiterate people fight for money?
How can you fight extremism with such a bigot mind?
Your mentality is similar to these Taliban.


rohailmalhi said:


> Non Muslim ......illertrate brainwashed people who are fighting just for money..........

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## tarrar

clmeta said:


> Some people still believe Muslims can't kill Muslims.
> What are TTP? Budhists?



TTP is a group of mainly non Muslims, don't forget who all are training, funding & arming them. When the operation in South Waziristan was going on it was confirmed by Pak Army & the Intelligence Agencies that Indians are fully supporting TTP. Ok pablo. I know you hindis will not agree on this because this is what you hindis are good at, you can search for News Repots on youtube they are still there.


----------



## monitor

Threat alerts: &#8216;Terrorists planning attack on PAF base&#8217; 
By Asad Kharal
Published: August 10, 2012 


Two TTP teams plotting bombings before Eid, say intelligence reports. PHOTO: AFP/FILE 
LAHORE: 

*The Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) is planning attacks on the Pakistan Air Force Base and other military and security establishments in Lahore before Eid, according to intelligence reports received by the Home Department.
*
The intelligence reports, which have been forwarded to the inspector general of Punjab Police and other officials concerned, stated that at least two TTP teams had made arrangements for attacks in revenge for the killing of Ghaffar Qaiserani alias Saifullah, an alleged TTP leader, in a shootout with the police at Dera Ghazi Khan on August 1.

According to one report, members of the Qari Yasin Group, initially a part of the Harkatul Mujahideen, which started in the Punjab and was later based in Miranshah in North Waziristan, were planning to attack the PAF base and installations near the PAF Market on Ramazan 27 or 28 (August 21 or 22).

Another stated that a team led by Qari Aslam alias Ustad of the Moavia Group, also based in Miranshah, was also planning terrorist attacks towards the end of Ramazan. Their main target was likely to be the PAF base, or other security establishments like the offices of the Inter Service Intelligence (ISI), Military Intelligence (MI), Intelligence Bureau or Counter Terrorism Department. Reconnaissance of the targets has already been done, the report states.

It stated that the plots had been financed by the kidnapping of some doctors from Taunsa Sharif, Dera Ghazi Khan, which had netted Rs2.5 million in ransom, enough to buy a black Honda City car, weapons, explosives and four suicide vests. The car has been rigged with explosives and is being kept at an unknown location in Kabirwala tehsil, Khanewal district, stated the report. The group had also selected targets for assassinations and kidnapping in the Punjab as well, it added.

The intelligence reports stated that the Badami Bagh fruit market blasts on August 1 and an IED blast in an Elite Force vehicle on August 2 were carried out by the TTP in revenge for the killing of Qaiserani. Further retaliatory attacks on public places and government establishments were possible, the reports stated.

Another report revealed a plot to blow up an oil tanker along the route used to supply NATO forces in Afghanistan. It stated that an IED had been found on an oil tanker at Taheemabad on the Layyah-Kot Addu Road, in the jurisdiction of Kot Sultan police station, on August 7. The driver noticed the device placed above the tyres and alerted local authorities. Police and civil defence officials defused the device before it exploded

The reports have been forwarded to the capital city police officer and the provincial heads of the intelligence agencies. A circular issued by the Home Department to law enforcement agencies reads:

&#8220;Security arrangements at establishments of LEAs [law enforcement agencies] and vulnerable public places need to be beefed up. The present situation warrants close coordination among all the intelligence agencies for sharing information and helping in nabbing the terrorists before they succeed in their nefarious designs. It is required that preventive measures be adopted.&#8221;

Published in The Express Tribune, August 10th, 2012.


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## miss

tarrar said:


> TTP is a group of mainly non Muslims, don't forget who all are training, funding & arming them. When the operation in South Waziristan was going on it was confirmed by Pak Army & the Intelligence Agencies that Indians are fully supporting TTP. Ok pablo. I know you hindis will not agree on this because this is what you hindis are good at, you can search for News Repots on youtube they are still there.


so wht are they?


----------



## Markus

AhaseebA said:


> Question still holds. Got proof that Kamra AFB houses nukes?
> 
> A PAF spokesman already said that no airbase houses nuclear weapons in Pakistan. Nuclear weapons storage facilities are separate from AFBs.



My information comes from articles (non-Indian also) on the net which mentions nukes.

Even if assuming, there are no nukes, an attack of this scale cant be ignored.

I think US and Pakistan should work together to see how these things dont happen again. We simply do not have the luxury of ignoring such attacks.


----------



## tarrar

miss said:


> what about let?



YA ALLAH , ALLAH save us from this Indian mentality.


----------



## karan.1970

pakdefender said:


> so I suppose india wants Pakistani nukes delivered to it for an eternal peace of mind ? we can oblige



Say that when you relocate back to India.. Its easy sitting in europe and talk about strategies that condemn your 180 million countrymen to a nuclear holocaust


----------



## Markus

Dance said:


> *Only one aircraft was damaged, said an air force spokesman, adding that the Minhas air base at Kamra, in central Punjab province, did not house nuclear weapons. "No air base is a nuclear air base in Pakistan," he said.*
> 
> 
> Militants attack major Pakistan air base; 9 killed- swissinfo[



Still it was a massive attack.

American special commando teams must be in put in Pakistan permanently who can work together with your commandos to secure complexes in the future. 

What do you think?

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## MM_Haider

MoizSheikh said:


> --
> Are you sure?
> i think u are forgetting MUMBAI ATTACK & 9/11 attack



did you see any attack after 9/11?? its been 13 years now!!!! thats how they curb before it happens and we wait for things to happen.. it is a big question mark on ISI's and IB's competence .... see operation OBL, Mehran Base Attack and now kamra.. other attacks on police installations i am not counting now... there is something fundamental wrong in our intelligence and anti terrorism squad... how is it possible that 11 terrorists are entering most sensitive base of PAF?/ they must have been killed or stopped atleast 10 KM before...there should be a separate and independent unit to safeguard critical national infrastructure who should even not let army chief in without proper screening..


----------



## Oldman1

pakdefender said:


> As the americans come under pressure in afghanistan due to green-on-blue attacks and deeper penetration of taliban into US held territory, America will sponsor more and more terrorists in Pakistan to take out its frustration.
> Pakistan is not responsible for Americas failure in Afghanistan, America is the architect of its own debacle



As Pakistanis come under pressure being killed by its own brethren Pakistan will sponsor more terrorist attacks in Afghanistan to take out its frustration. U.S. is not responsible for Pakistan's failure in its own country.


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## pakdefender

In Pakistan nukes and their delivery sytems dont fall under the airforce , this is different from the United States where most of the nukes and their delivery system fall under the control of the air froce. 

The americans dont really know where our nukes are , they are guessing that our strategic assets are manged like theirs but that is not the case no AFB in Pakistan house nukes 

This is yet another indicator as to where the noise about our nukes is originating from , they have no clue as to where our nukes are


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## Stealth

Markus said:


> Still it was a massive attack.
> 
> American special commando teams must be in put in Pakistan permanently who can work together with your commandos to secure complexes in the future.
> 
> What do you think?



Do you have any idea how many attacks on American bases since last 2 years ?? do you have any idea how many helicopters/Army assets burned by Talibans in Afghanistan ???

LOL @ your *** knowledge! we call *** forces who even not capable to secure her self and even kabul....


----------



## Juice

tarrar said:


> TTP is a group of mainly non Muslims, don't forget who all are training, funding & arming them. When the operation in South Waziristan was going on it was confirmed by Pak Army & the Intelligence Agencies that Indians are fully supporting TTP. Ok pablo. I know you hindis will not agree on this because this is what you hindis are good at, you can search for News Repots on youtube they are still there.


 TTP are non-Muslim? So....Catholic? Greek Orthodox? What Bible translation do they use? Their woman aren't veiled?

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## The Deterrent

Markus said:


> My information comes from articles (non-Indian also) on the net which mentions nukes.
> 
> Even if assuming, there are no nukes, an attack of this scale cant be ignored.
> 
> I think US and Pakistan should work together to see how these things dont happen again. We simply do not have the luxury of ignoring such attacks.



Any links to the reports?

First be sure of the information before posting. This attitude is called PMS (propaganda otherwise).

Yes, it cannot be ignored. Yes, measures should be taken.


----------



## Dance

Markus said:


> Still it was a massive attack.
> 
> American special commando teams must be in put in Pakistan permanently who can work together with your commandos to secure complexes in the future.
> 
> What do you think?



How was it massive? The terrorists did not even make to the center of the base. 

It was a security failure of PAF and they should have done more to be prepared for something like this.


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## Patriot

**** it.........


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## Markus

Stealth said:


> Do you have any idea how many attacks on American bases since last 2 years ?? do you have any idea how many helicopters/Army assets burned by Talibans in Afghanistan ???
> 
> LOL @ your *** knowledge! we call *** forces who even not capable to secure her self and even kabul....



If you think an attack on a small military camp is the same as an attack on a full air force base, then good luck to you.


----------



## pakdefender

karan.1970 said:


> Say that when you relocate back to India.. Its easy sitting in europe and talk about strategies that condemn your 180 million countrymen to a nuclear holocaust



you indians are concerned about our nukes and would like to be put to peace regarding your concrens about our nukes so why not take delivery of them ? No ?


----------



## Patriot

pakdefender said:


> you indians are concerned about our nukes and would like to be put to peace regarding your concrens about our nukes so why not take delivery of them ? No ?


They will be delivered to India one day but via missiles and fighter jets.

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## Oldman1

tarrar said:


> TTP is a group of mainly non Muslims, don't forget who all are training, funding & arming them. When the operation in South Waziristan was going on it was confirmed by Pak Army & the Intelligence Agencies that Indians are fully supporting TTP. Ok pablo. I know you hindis will not agree on this because this is what you hindis are good at, you can search for News Repots on youtube they are still there.



What the heck does mainly mean in that sentence? Are you saying there are Muslims as well?


----------



## tarrar

sms said:


> I pity you hope almighty will give wisdom and courage to understand and face reality.
> These days the biggest threat to Muslim is none other than Muslim brother!!



Whome you indians, US & NATO are taking full advantage of. The reason why I said they are Not Muslims because today it's 27th Ramadan in Pakistan, a day when all Muslims stay awake & pray to ALLAH whole night & on this day this attacks takes place.

I feel sorry for you because it's very hard for you to accept the truth & facts that India is SUPPORTING TERRORISM in our country.


----------



## david blain

Is the operation over ? whats the final report ?


----------



## tarrar

Patriot said:


> They will be delivered to India one day but via missiles and fighter jets.



Agree with you on this brother. Nice one.


----------



## miss

tarrar said:


> YA ALLAH , ALLAH save us from this Indian mentality.


dont understand , elaborate..


----------



## Roybot

Patriot said:


> They will be delivered to India one day but via missiles and fighter jets.



And what happens to your country after that? Looks like the "suicide bomber mentality" has crept deep into your society now.

Stop lobbing nukes on each other now. Its not a joke.

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## Dance

david blain said:


> Is the operation over ? whats the final report ?



Yes.

One person was martyred.

One aircraft may or may not have been damaged ( we don't know for sure) 

9 terrorists killed and 8 more arrested.

PAF will release their pictures to the media

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## sanddy

tarrar said:


> TTP is a group of mainly non Muslims, don't forget who all are training, funding & arming them. When the operation in South Waziristan was going on it was confirmed by Pak Army & the Intelligence Agencies that Indians are fully supporting TTP. Ok pablo. I know you hindis will not agree on this because this is what you hindis are good at, you can search for News Repots on youtube they are still there.


 
evil hindoo baniya 
i see huge fan following of
zaid hamid .
Read the actual reality my friend .


----------



## The Deterrent

Patriot said:


> They will be delivered to India one day but via missiles and fighter jets.



No need to get over-excited. Using nukes isn't like exchanging MG3 bullets on the border.

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## Markus

AhaseebA said:


> Any links to the reports?
> 
> First be sure of the information before posting. This attitude is called PMS (propaganda otherwise).
> 
> Yes, it cannot be ignored. Yes, measures should be taken.



There are scores and scores of Indian links which mention nukes but I am not using them.

This NY link mentions nukes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/w...se-with-nuclear-ties-is-attacked.html?_r=1&hp

There are many others, a google search will give out them.

I am surprised many of your countrymen are taking this very lightly.


----------



## Stealth

Markus said:


> If you think an attack on a small military camp is the same as an attack on a full air force base, then good luck to you.


 
lol 10 - 14 Apaches, 8 - 10 Cobra and 8 Chinook.... were standing in small base lol @ your logic...


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## lightoftruth

any terrorist agency took responsibility ?

another failure in the part of pakistani defence forces in securing their assets .


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## Markus

Stealth said:


> lol 10 - 14 Apaches, 8 - 10 Cobra and 8 Chinook.... were standing in small base lol @ your logic...



The Americans were attacked inside Afghanistan.

You are being attacked in your country.

Get the difference.

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## tarrar

Oldman1 said:


> What the heck does mainly mean in that sentence? Are you saying there are Muslims as well?



Unfortunately yes there are some Muslims as well who have completely lost their way & completely brain washed, I don&#8217;t want to go in detail now & TTP is filled with Non Muslims which is 100% true & confirmed again I don&#8217;t want to go in detail.


----------



## david blain

Dance said:


> Yes.
> 
> One person was martyred.
> 
> One aircraft may or may not have been damaged ( we don't know for sure)
> 
> 9 terrorists killed and 8 more arrested.
> 
> 
> PAF will release their pictures to the media




which aircraft ?



Dance said:


> Yes.
> 
> One person was martyred.
> 
> One aircraft may or may not have been damaged ( we don't know for sure)
> 
> 9 terrorists killed and 8 more arrested.
> 
> 
> PAF will release their pictures to the media




which aircraft ?


----------



## The Deterrent

Markus said:


> There are scores and scores of Indian links which mention nukes but I am using them.
> 
> This NY link mentions nukes.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/w...se-with-nuclear-ties-is-attacked.html?_r=1&hp
> 
> There are many others, a google search will give out them.
> 
> I am surprised many of your countrymen are taking this very lightly.



The same NY links also CERTIFIED of Saddam's WMDs.

The truth is, the western and Indian media seeks this event as an opportunity to malign Pakistan's Nuclear Forces.

This issue isn't to be taken lightly, but associating nukes with every military base that comes under attack (even by-passing school buses) isn't a responsible attitude either.

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## Dance

david blain said:


> which aircraft ?



I don't know.

We don't even know if an aircraft has been damaged for sure.


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## MUHARIB

Any pics from the attacks? Would like to see Pakistan SOF's in action. And R I P to the brave soldier(s).


----------



## Markus

AhaseebA said:


> The same NY links also CERTIFIED of Saddam's WMDs.
> 
> The truth is, the western and Indian media seeks this event as an opportunity to malign Pakistan's Nuclear Forces.
> 
> This issue isn't to be taken lightly, but associating nukes with every military base that comes under attack (even by-passing school buses) isn't a responsible attitude either.



Well, some media houses to tend to jump the gun sometimes, but the fact that WOT is in progress in Pakistan and ops going on in Pakistan's neighbourhood and given the fact that Pakistan has nukes...all in all does not give a comfortable feeling to outsiders.


----------



## sms

Patriot said:


> They will be delivered to India one day but via missiles and fighter jets.


 


tarrar said:


> Agree with you on this brother. Nice one.



Grow up, exchanging nuke isn't flag hosting ceremony on Bagha border. 

Just curious to know will your nuke kill Muslims in India or they are smart nuke invented for non Muslims only?


----------



## The Deterrent

Markus said:


> Well, some media houses to tend to jump the gun sometimes, but the fact that WOT is in progress in Pakistan and ops going on in Pakistan's neighbourhood and given the fact that Pakistan has nukes...all in all does not give a comfortable feeling to outsiders.



An uncomfortable feeling and MISREPRESENTATION of facts are two different things. If the media does that, it is to be blamed, not Pakistan.

Pakistan is trying its best. What I came to know, is that this base was specifically attacked because the Air-Strikes on the militants in the North East originated from here.


----------



## SEAL

First of all congratulations to all law enforcement agencies on successful operation.
The aircraft is damaged is due to RPG hit from distance militants managed to cross the wall but finished by our commandos soon after. 

Now agencies keep saying all the attackers are forigners so why they are hiding their identities expose them. If US can attack inside Pakistan then Mr Kiyani needs to show some guts and eliminate Fazalullah and other anti-Pakistan elements from A'stan soil.

Launch operation against militant and for God sake use some technology and minimize the loss as much as possible.


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## Markus

AhaseebA said:


> An uncomfortable feeling and MISREPRESENTATION of facts are two different things. If the media does that, it is to be blamed, not Pakistan.
> 
> Pakistan is trying its best. What I came to know, is that this base was specifically attacked because the Air-Strikes on the militants in the North East originated from here.



If international news sources publish something, the public have who read it, believe it. How do they verify each and everything.

If NY Times write something, we have no option to believe it.


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## Stealth

Markus said:


> The Americans were attacked inside Afghanistan.
> 
> You are being attacked in your country.
> 
> Get the difference.


 
lol by your logic thn 3 Aircraft hijacked hit world's super power top economical hub buildings known as WTC lol.... 

They made more powerful/strong/important bases in Afghanistan as compare to their own country bases or anywhere in the world. This claim is useless and no background that you're underattack in your country and they are in Afghanistan. The fact is we're in the state of war since last 10 years by US (YOU) and other enemies of Pakistan. Where as your best friend runoff when PAkistan go operation in S.W. Your best friend runoff when we talk about sealed the border... your best friend is not shown any interest in sealing border/line. your best friend whom you think "so called super duper power and lost everywar in her history (vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and failed to pressurize Iran). Will capable to fight with 3 - 5 hardcore enemies simultaneous (at a time).

Man LOL @ your non-sense post about the send American forces who even not capable to hold even Kabul with 2 + M super duper military!


----------



## Markus

Stealth said:


> lol by your logic thn 3 Aircraft hijacked hit world's super power top economical hub buildings known as WTC lol....
> 
> They made more powerful/strong/important bases in Afghanistan as compare to their own country bases or anywhere in the world. This claim is useless and no background that you're underattack in your country and they are in Afghanistan. The fact is we're in the state of war since last 10 years by US (YOU) and other enemies of Pakistan. Where as your best friend runoff when PAkistan go operation in S.W. Your best friend runoff when we talk about sealed the border... your best friend is not shown any interest in sealing border/line. your best friend whom you think "so called super duper power and lost everywar in her history (vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and failed to pressurize Iran). Will capable to fight with 3 - 5 hardcore enemies simultaneous (at a time).
> 
> Man LOL @ your non-sense post about the send American forces who even not capable to hold even Kabul with 2 + M super duper military!



I knew you would bring up WTC.

Look I am not here to justify US ops and policies. But I dont want nukes being stolen in my neighbourhood. 

If your country is unable to prevent such massive attacks, then you must take American help.

I know you killed the terrorists but the very fact that you are unable to prevent them is the main concern.

Use US intelligence and their commandos for ops to wipe out these ppl. *They are far more capable - both in training and in technology.*


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## TaimiKhan

Markus said:


> Still it was a massive attack.
> 
> American special commando teams must be in put in Pakistan permanently who can work together with your commandos to secure complexes in the future.
> 
> What do you think?


 
Thanks for the advice, but being an Indian such advises can be expected out of you guys. 

Better advise would be that American should first take control of the shiet they are in Afghanistan & Iraq, while we on the other hand can very well take care of the stuff on our side, no help required. 
*
And warning for all Indians, if you guys keep giving such advises or other BS, be ready to get changed into Pinkies. Enough of the BS rant from you guys.*

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## KRAIT

edited....


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## Markus

TaimiKhan said:


> Thanks for the advice, but being an Indian such advises can be expected out of you guys.
> 
> Better advise would be that American should first take control of the shiet they are in Afghanistan & Iraq, while we on the other hand can very well take care of the stuff on our side, no help required.



Working together is the only way out for this, just IMO.


----------



## iPhone

I think everybody needs to calm down and take a deep breath, go out for a walk or something. There is too much irrationality being thrown around mixed with hot air, false bravado and pure racism. Or make maybe mods could close the thread for an hour.

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## The Deterrent

Markus said:


> If international news sources publish something, the public have who read it, believe it. How do they verify each and everything.
> 
> If NY Times write something, we have no option to believe it.



Then keep your beliefs to yourself.

Anyways, they are all dead. This is the best they could do.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Lightning Soul said:


> As Far as i got to know 9 Terrorists wearing Armed Forces Uniforms entered the base. The security forces responded, an air defense personnel has been seriously injured.No Damage done to any aircraft stationed there. Fire-brigade and Ambulance and other rescue teams have already reached at the spot.A fuel depot exploded due to terrorists grenades attack.Main Targets were Saab-2000 AWACS and JF-17 Thunder production line factory. 6-7 Terrorists have already been killed. I hope atleast one is caught alive by our security forces so that further intel could be gathered about the planning of the attack. So it looks like this attack by the terrorists has been failed miserably unlike previous similar attack on PNS base Mehran.Thanks to our security forces  but the point of concern is that they shouldn't be allowed to enter the base at all.
> *BTW I don't know much about defense but even a lay-man like me can figure out that why would some rag-tag militants need to target Surveillance Aircrafts like P3C Orion or Saab 2000 specifically unless its been assisted or sponsored by some FOREIGN hand*



foreign terrorists were obviously assisted quite well by their handlers....luckily no damage to any assets of PAF though nobody should forget the men who had no regard for their own safety while neutralizing he threat

as long as hostile anti-state elements continue to create problems while abusing and exploiting Afghan soil unabated, we should consider Afghanistan as hostile

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## Windjammer

AhaseebA said:


> An uncomfortable feeling and MISREPRESENTATION of facts are two different things. If the media does that, it is to be blamed, not Pakistan.
> 
> Pakistan is trying its best. *What I came to know, is that this base was specifically attacked because the Air-Strikes on the militants in the North East originated from here.*



Most of the sorties are flown from Sargodha just like this bombed up F-16 blasting off from there on one such mission.

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## tarrar

KRAIT said:


> Karan can you remember all those posts where people were laughing at our security when 26/11 happened, even knowing the fact that India having such a vast coastline which is not so easy to defend.....
> 
> And here they have been attacked at their naval and air force base, wouldn't you like to ask those people some questions....?



Your Bombay attacks were planned by your crap WWE RAW, a self attack which was a complete failure & till date hindis have not been able to build any fake proof of Pakistan involvement in these attacks, then on the very same day another humiliation to the hindis where they thought they could carry out surgical strikes in Pakistan but they were intercepted very well by our PAF & you hindis did what you do well run to your dug outs & cry to your master US for help.

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## TaimiKhan

Markus said:


> I knew you would bring up WTC.
> 
> Look I am not here to justify US ops and policies. But I dont want nukes being stolen in my neighbourhood.
> 
> If your country is unable to prevent such massive attacks, then you must take American help.
> 
> I know you killed the terrorists but the very fact that you are unable to prevent them is the main concern.
> 
> Use US intelligence and their commandos for ops to wipe out these ppl. *They are far more capable - both in training and in technology.*



Yeah we can see from Afghanistan & Iraq that what they are capable of and how much efficient they are, kindly don't go on their movies to judge how good they are.

And as said, enough of this BS, if you have something on the topic then say it, or else shut it.



Markus said:


> I knew you would bring up WTC.
> 
> Look I am not here to justify US ops and policies. But I dont want nukes being stolen in my neighbourhood.
> 
> If your country is unable to prevent such massive attacks, then you must take American help.
> 
> I know you killed the terrorists but the very fact that you are unable to prevent them is the main concern.
> 
> Use US intelligence and their commandos for ops to wipe out these ppl. *They are far more capable - both in training and in technology.*



Yeah we can see from Afghanistan & Iraq that what they are capable of and how much efficient they are, kindly don't go on their movies to judge how good they are.

And as said, enough of this BS, if you have something on the topic then say it, or else shut it.

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## KRAIT

karan.1970 said:


> Actually I would not.. Because what goes around, comes around like Pakistani members are discovering here.. No point indulging in cheap shots..


kindly edit your post and remove my comment....Thanks....


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## SEAL

KRAIT said:


> Karan can you remember all those posts where people were laughing at our security when 26/11 happened, even knowing the fact that India having such a vast coastline which is not so easy to defend.....
> 
> And here they have been attacked at their naval and air force base, wouldn't you like to ask those people some questions....?


 
Its a face that 26/11 was big security failure even Israeli's were angry the way Indian incompetent forces conducted the operation. 

In Mehran Base attack element of success was on lower side but this operation is complete success.

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## KRAIT

tarrar said:


> Your Bombay attacks were planned by your crap WWE RAW, a self attack which was a complete failure & till date hindis have not been able to build any fake proof of Pakistan involvement in these attacks, then on the very same day another humiliation to the hindis where they thought they could carry out surgical strikes in Pakistan but they were intercepted very well by our PAF & you hindis did what you do well run to your dug outs & cry to your master US for help.


Buddy I deleted my comment and ask you to kindly edit your post and remove my comment.....let me correct my mistake....


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

8 killed in Kamra airbase attack in Pakistan


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## KRAIT

fox said:


> Its a face that 26/11 was big security failure even Israeli's were angry the way Indian incompetent forces conducted the operation.
> 
> In Mehran Base attack element of success was on lower side but this operation is complete success.


Kindly edit your post and remove my comment....let me correct my mistake....lets come back to topic...Sorry for my posts.


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## ajtr

*@krait* login ur gmail


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## danger007

tarrar said:


> I woke up at Sahri & saw the news on TV then after that I couldnt sleep, only curse was coming out of my heart against these foreign terrorists who were also most probably NOT Muslims & I was praying that our Pak Army crushes these bastards.
> The aircrafts which were there were the main targets, the main target like p3c Orions were Pakistans AWACS but thanks to ALLAH SUBHAN TALLAH nothing happened to these aircraft & they were all successfully airborne during the operation against these terrorists. Reports say there were no JF-17s in the base, well they are just reports some others reports says otherwise.
> 
> They were all foreign terrorists & an Retired Army Officer said that they have been trained, funded & Intel was given to them by foreign powers & foreign Intel Agencies but this time I really want to see the names of who all were involved in this attack, who planned & organized these attacks. My guess is this was all done by US & NATO to press Pakistan for an operation on NWA by naming US & NATO this doesnt mean I am ruling out Indias name because attacks on Mehran Base where P3C Orions was destroyed & it had only benefited India. I am sure there is Indian involvement as well.
> 
> I am praying that names comes out of who all were invovled in this cowardly attack.
> 
> Now after these attacks we all will see US raising Security concerns on our Nuclear Assets & they will bark as usual.
> 
> It was a great work by our Pakistan Army who had dealt with this problem quickly, I pray for their success & safety always AMEEN.



conspiracy again????? how we are benefited from mehran attack????what advantage we will get by destroying P3c orions????....

don't start trolling...


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## tarrar

Of course we will not believe the lies from foreign media but countries like India will strongly believe anything the US or Europe will say with their eyes wide shut & we can see the example on this thread. How much Indians have trust & believe on foreign media when it comes to Pakistan always.


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## Windjammer

> Karan can you remember all those posts where people were laughing at our security when 26/11 happened, even knowing the fact that India having such a vast coastline which is not so easy to defend.....
> 
> And here they have been attacked at their naval and air force base, wouldn't you like to ask those people some questions....?
> Original Post By KRAIT



Why you as an Indian, would miss the opportunity to take some cheap shots..... i am sure MODS are taking all this into account.

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## indushek

RIP to those martyred and pray for speedy recovery of hurt personnel. Pakistani Armed forces should now go in to Waziristan with renewed vigour against these scum.


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## KRAIT

Windjammer said:


> Why you as an Indian, would miss the opportunity to take some cheap shots..... i am sure MODS are taking all this into account.


Buddy I already apologized....an Indian member made me realized....I asked everyone to delete my comment from their post....So let me take back my words.

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## tarrar

danger007 said:


> conspiracy again????? how we are benefited from mehran attack????what advantage we will get by destroying P3c orions????....
> 
> don't start trolling...



No you are the people who live in the world of fiction & you are the people who love trolling the topics just like this one. 

There were thousands of programs & talk shows held at that time in which the reporters & defence analyst clearly said that only India is the country benefiting from all this.


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## SamranAli

Markus said:


> Pakistan's nuclear weapons are in grave danger.
> 
> This attack was repulsed but in the next attack, the terrorists may also succeed in entering the critical complexes and take control of sensitive devices.
> 
> Are the Americans watching this ?


 
Dont worry for our nukes a big number of them are for you and always be used against you. We are caring.


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## Last Hope

TK.


I had send PMs to Moderators and WebMaster earlier to lock this thread, and check every post with zero tolerance, issues warning, infractions and bans as appropriate; and then open the thread after some hours. Meanwhile don't allow anyone to open any separate thread. Only Moderators and Administrators should post the updates.

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## tarrar

indushek said:


> RIP to those martyred and pray for speedy recovery of hurt personnel. Pakistani Armed forces should now go in to Waziristan with renewed vigour against these scum.



This is what US wants, to push Pakistan in deeper trouble & problems but I am sure every step will be taken wisely. We will see US saying that the attacks were carried out from NWA, which of course will be lies & a way to press Pak Army for an operation in NWA but Pak Army knows well what needs to be done & how to handle this problem.


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## karan.1970

I personally believe Pakistani members should not be touchy about this incident. If anything it should be termed as a failure for the terrorists and a success for Paksitani security forces..


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## MUHARIB

Everybody wants to troll. nobody wants to talk about what actually happened or post pics. Saddd!!


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## SamranAli

Markus said:


> Still it was a massive attack.
> 
> American special commando teams must be in put in Pakistan permanently who can work together with your commandos to secure complexes in the future.
> 
> What do you think?


 
Oye kid! Did you tood your feeder and milked today? Go and play little unaware baby.


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## tarrar

westtowel said:


> Are the Nukes safe.Have all terrorists been killed yet.



First of all nobody in this world knows where our Nukes are & secondly the reports are saying that all terrorists have been killed.


----------



## HAIDER

westtowel said:


> Are the Nukes safe.Have all terrorists been killed yet.


Trolling again ......already explained, this base is use to attack on terrorist Pak-Afgan border. PAF planes playing vital role in keeping these terrorist rats under earth.


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## IND151

any link to official source?


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## Bhai Zakir

*7 terrorists, 1 soldier killed in Kamra airbase attack in Pakistan*

ISLAMABAD: A group of terrorists armed with sophisticated weapons and suicide vests stormed a key Pakistan Air Force base in Punjab province that is believed to house nuclear weapons, triggering an intense gun battle that left seven attackers and a security personnel dead.

The terrorists, some of whom were reportedly wearing military uniforms, sneaked into Kamra airbase at about 2am on Thursday *despite a state of high alert at the facility.*

*The attackers breached at least three barriers *and tried to target Saab-2000 surveillance aircraft, news channels reported.

Following a gun battle that lasted over three hours, seven terrorists were gunned down by commandos, a PAF spokesman told the media.

He said eight terrorists were involved in the attack. There was no word on the fate of the remaining attacker.

The spokesman said explosives were strapped to the body of one attacker. He said the attackers were engaged by two teams of commandos.

The spokesman said one security personnel was killed and several others, including base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, were injured.

Azam, who was leading the operations, was hit by a bullet but he is "safe and stable", the spokesman said.

Earlier reports had said *two security personnel were killed.*

The military's media arm told reporters that the situation at the Kamra airbase was under control and troops were conducting a search operation to ascertain if any more terrorists were inside the complex.

*The PAF spokesman said one aircraft was damaged when it was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade fired by the attackers.* He did not give details of the extent of the damage.


7 terrorists, 1 soldier killed in Kamra airbase attack in Pakistan - The Times of India

*Just yesterday Leon Panetta was talking about the pak nukes falling into terrorist hands and now this close escape of nukes from terrorists hands.

It could have worsen seeing how easily they have breached all the security of the most secured air base of PAF.*

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## tarrar

karan.1970 said:


> A lot of reporters and talk shows also say that Pakistan is the state sponsor of terrorism.. Lets believe that too..



Yes this is my point & what I have been saying, these terrorists are funded, trained, armed & supplied with rented man power by foreign powers & foreign agencies. Same thing was said today by any retired Army Officer as well.


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## SamranAli

MUHARIB said:


> Everybody wants to troll. nobody wants to talk about what actually happened or post pics. Saddd!!


 mainly your fellow indians.

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## Last Hope

tarrar said:


> *First of all nobody in this world knows where our Nukes* are & secondly the reports are saying that all terrorists have been killed.



Actually I do. Not all installations of-course.

But the Pentagon knows more than me. (Not all installations again). The Nuclear capable missiles are kept in stores underground and buried deep in mountains, which are in three separate segments (M-11s). They are dismounted, and have to be built. The parts of missiles are kept in different places of the same area which are specially guarded by ISI (we have had a security breach by CIA into atleast one of the installations near Kalabagh), Special Services of Strategic Forces and what not. Only a fool can imagine a Nuke getting stolen, any country it be.

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## EagleEyes

Bhai Zakir said:


> *7 terrorists, 1 soldier killed in Kamra airbase attack in Pakistan*
> 
> ISLAMABAD: A group of terrorists armed with sophisticated weapons and suicide vests stormed a key Pakistan Air Force base in Punjab province that is believed to house nuclear weapons, triggering an intense gun battle that left seven attackers and a security personnel dead.
> 
> The terrorists, some of whom were reportedly wearing military uniforms, sneaked into Kamra airbase at about 2am on Thursday *despite a state of high alert at the facility.*
> 
> *The attackers breached at least three barriers *and tried to target Saab-2000 surveillance aircraft, news channels reported.
> 
> Following a gun battle that lasted over three hours, seven terrorists were gunned down by commandos, a PAF spokesman told the media.
> 
> He said eight terrorists were involved in the attack. There was no word on the fate of the remaining attacker.
> 
> The spokesman said explosives were strapped to the body of one attacker. He said the attackers were engaged by two teams of commandos.
> 
> The spokesman said one security personnel was killed and several others, including base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, were injured.
> 
> Azam, who was leading the operations, was hit by a bullet but he is "safe and stable", the spokesman said.
> 
> Earlier reports had said *two security personnel were killed.*
> 
> The military's media arm told reporters that the situation at the Kamra airbase was under control and troops were conducting a search operation to ascertain if any more terrorists were inside the complex.
> 
> *The PAF spokesman said one aircraft was damaged when it was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade fired by the attackers.* He did not give details of the extent of the damage.
> 
> 
> 7 terrorists, 1 soldier killed in Kamra airbase attack in Pakistan - The Times of India
> 
> *Just yesterday Leon Panetta was talking about the pak nukes falling into terrorist hands and now this close escape of nukes from terrorists hands.
> 
> It could have worsen seeing how easily they have breached all the security of the most secured air base of PAF.*



Read the thread.

1) Security was not breached, the rounds were fired from outside.
2) Nukes have nothing to do with this location.

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## iPhone

karan.1970 said:


> A few minutes before or after 180 million Pakistanis are killed in a nuclear fire and its cities are devastated by multiple nuclear strikes from air, land and sea...



It's disheartening to see people wanting loss of life at such colossal scale with such ease. and yes, I direct that towards Pakistani member, too who may have suggested such action.

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## The Deterrent

Last Hope said:


> Actually I do. Not all installations of-course.
> 
> But the Pentagon knows more than me. (Not all installations again). The Nuclear capable missiles are kept in stores underground and buried deep in mountains, which are in three separate segments (M-11s). They are dismounted, and have to be built. The parts of missiles are kept in different places of the same area which are specially guarded by ISI (we have had a security breach by CIA into atleast one of the installations near Kalabagh), Special Services of Strategic Forces and what not. Only a fool can imagine a Nuke getting stolen, any country it be.



I concur. But I would like to add that Pentagon knows ALL of the POSSIBLE facilities. They just don't know which ones ACTUALLY house nuclear weapons.

I believe that CIA-breach incident happened back in 2005.

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## Stealth

LOL @ Indian emphasis on NUCLEAR WEAPONS INSIDE BASE lolzzzzzzz after all PEOO jo kah raha hey pechlay 10 saal say!

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## SamranAli

Bhai Zakir said:


> *7 terrorists, 1 soldier killed in Kamra airbase attack in Pakistan*
> 
> ISLAMABAD: A group of terrorists armed with sophisticated weapons and suicide vests stormed a key Pakistan Air Force base in Punjab province that is believed to house nuclear weapons, triggering an intense gun battle that left seven attackers and a security personnel dead.
> 
> The terrorists, some of whom were reportedly wearing military uniforms, sneaked into Kamra airbase at about 2am on Thursday *despite a state of high alert at the facility.*
> 
> *The attackers breached at least three barriers *and tried to target Saab-2000 surveillance aircraft, news channels reported.
> 
> Following a gun battle that lasted over three hours, seven terrorists were gunned down by commandos, a PAF spokesman told the media.
> 
> He said eight terrorists were involved in the attack. There was no word on the fate of the remaining attacker.
> 
> The spokesman said explosives were strapped to the body of one attacker. He said the attackers were engaged by two teams of commandos.
> 
> The spokesman said one security personnel was killed and several others, including base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, were injured.
> 
> Azam, who was leading the operations, was hit by a bullet but he is "safe and stable", the spokesman said.
> 
> Earlier reports had said *two security personnel were killed.*
> 
> The military's media arm told reporters that the situation at the Kamra airbase was under control and troops were conducting a search operation to ascertain if any more terrorists were inside the complex.
> 
> *The PAF spokesman said one aircraft was damaged when it was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade fired by the attackers.* He did not give details of the extent of the damage.
> 
> 
> 7 terrorists, 1 soldier killed in Kamra airbase attack in Pakistan - The Times of India
> 
> *Just yesterday Leon Panetta was talking about the pak nukes falling into terrorist hands and now this close escape of nukes from terrorists hands.
> 
> It could have worsen seeing how easily they have breached all the security of the most secured air base of PAF.*


 you were left typical indian hindu.


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## Last Hope

AhaseebA said:


> I concur. But I would like to add that Pentagon knows ALL of the POSSIBLE facilities. They just don't know which ones ACTUALLY house nuclear weapons.
> *
> I believe that CIA-breach incident happened back in 2005.*



My information on the CIA breach is as of Feb 2012. They haven't given up and several-DOZENS of their agents have been caught, American national and locals. Also I know of much details that if I give a hint, no one would ever see posts from me, ever.


----------



## Paan Singh

I hv no intention to post but after looking at the post on these threads,i hv Qn in mind.

Why pakistanis brings nukes at each n every post? 
i mean this is like a suicide mentality and its the primary reason for the mess in country and its not decreasing  .

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## tarrar

AhaseebA said:


> I concur. But I would like to add that Pentagon knows ALL of the POSSIBLE facilities. They just don't know which ones ACTUALLY house nuclear weapons.
> 
> I believe that CIA-breach incident happened back in 2005.



If US knows then Pakistan also knows that US knows. So Pakistan have taken steps to safe our Nuclear Weapons. I still strongly believe that our Nuclear Weapons locations are unknown.


----------



## indushek

tarrar said:


> This is what US wants, to push Pakistan in deeper trouble & problems but I am sure every step will be taken wisely. We will see US saying that the attacks were carried out from NWA, which of course will be lies & a way to press Pak Army for an operation in NWA but Pak Army knows well what needs to be done & how to handle this problem.



I never said to rush in blindly, i am sure that PA being a professional will do all the needed planning and make its move. All i am saying is when the dog attacks at home it is time to put it down. I have no prejudice here for Pakistan or PA.


----------



## KRAIT

Paan Singh said:


> I hv no intention to post but after looking at the post on these threads,i hv Qn in mind.
> 
> Why pakistanis brings nukes at each n every post?
> i mean this is like a suicide mentality and its the primary reason for the mess in country and its not decreasing  .


Actually New York Times brought it when a poster posted a link on their news....then snow ball effect.


----------



## SamranAli

Paan Singh said:


> I hv no intention to post but after looking at the post on these threads,i hv Qn in mind.
> 
> Why pakistanis brings nukes at each n every post?
> i mean this is like a suicide mentality and its the primary reason for the mess in country and its not decreasing  .


 read again who brought nukes.


----------



## The Deterrent

Paan Singh said:


> I hv no intention to post but after looking at the post on these threads,i hv Qn in mind.
> 
> Why pakistanis brings nukes at each n every post?
> i mean this is like a suicide mentality and its the primary reason for the mess in country and its not decreasing  .



You are mistaken dude. We are not extremists.

If talking about Mutually Assured Destruction through a first strike is suicidal thinking, then I'm afraid the Israelis are the most extreme extremists. Because even their Prime Ministers have threatened to use the Samson Option in the past.


----------



## The Deterrent

tarrar said:


> If US knows then Pakistan also knows that US knows. So Pakistan have taken steps to safe our Nuclear Weapons. I still strongly believe that our Nuclear Weapons locations are unknown.



Every step taken requires an armored convoy moving on sealed roads, headed for a facility with 5 levels of security housing hardened shelters and underground tunnels.

THAT kind of activity DOES NOT goes unnoticed.


----------



## Last Hope

tarrar said:


> If US knows then Pakistan also knows that US knows. So Pakistan have taken steps to safe our Nuclear Weapons. I still strongly believe that our Nuclear Weapons locations are unknown.



Pakistan knows that US knows where the installations are.
And US knows that Pakistan knows that US knows that where the installations are.
This inception goes on.

This is true, we have had security breaches near the installations, a few KMs away. We have many levels of security and the outermost is far away from the epicentre which is manned by ISI itself.


----------



## Roybot

Last Hope said:


> *Actually I do. Not all installations of-course.
> *
> But the Pentagon knows more than me. (Not all installations again). The Nuclear capable missiles are kept in stores underground and buried deep in mountains, which are in three separate segments (M-11s). They are dismounted, and have to be built. The parts of missiles are kept in different places of the same area which are specially guarded by ISI (we have had a security breach by CIA into atleast one of the installations near Kalabagh), Special Services of Strategic Forces and what not. Only a fool can imagine a Nuke getting stolen, any country it be.



I doubt you do, and even if you do best not to brag about it on an internet forum.


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## Arav_Rana

R.I.P. to solider n civilians( if any )

India have no business with these type of incidents.
So before blaming India here remember "You reap what you sow."


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Better handling of incident than Mehran

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## Harry Potter

This incident happened a few hours after Panetta's comments:
Pak nukes may fall into terrorists hands: Panetta


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## Mani2020

any news about the type of aircraft that got damaged and the extent to which it got damage? i hope its not il-78 or saab-2000


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## prabhakar

RIP.... terrible news... shows the penetration and preparedness of terrorists inside Pakistan.


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## Windjammer

Bhai Zakir said:


> *7 terrorists, 1 soldier killed in Kamra airbase attack in Pakistan*
> 
> ISLAMABAD: A group of terrorists armed with sophisticated weapons and suicide vests stormed a key Pakistan Air Force base in Punjab province that is believed to house nuclear weapons, triggering an intense gun battle that left seven attackers and a security personnel dead.
> 
> The terrorists, some of whom were reportedly wearing military uniforms, sneaked into Kamra airbase at about 2am on Thursday *despite a state of high alert at the facility.*
> 
> *The attackers breached at least three barriers *and tried to target Saab-2000 surveillance aircraft, news channels reported.
> 
> Following a gun battle that lasted over three hours, seven terrorists were gunned down by commandos, a PAF spokesman told the media.
> 
> He said eight terrorists were involved in the attack. There was no word on the fate of the remaining attacker.
> 
> The spokesman said explosives were strapped to the body of one attacker. He said the attackers were engaged by two teams of commandos.
> 
> The spokesman said one security personnel was killed and several others, including base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, were injured.
> 
> Azam, who was leading the operations, was hit by a bullet but he is "safe and stable", the spokesman said.
> 
> Earlier reports had said *two security personnel were killed.*
> 
> The military's media arm told reporters that the situation at the Kamra airbase was under control and troops were conducting a search operation to ascertain if any more terrorists were inside the complex.
> 
> *The PAF spokesman said one aircraft was damaged when it was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade fired by the attackers.* He did not give details of the extent of the damage.
> 
> 
> 7 terrorists, 1 soldier killed in Kamra airbase attack in Pakistan - The Times of India
> 
> *Just yesterday Leon Panetta was talking about the pak nukes falling into terrorist hands and now this close escape of nukes from terrorists hands.
> 
> It could have worsen seeing how easily they have breached all the security of the most secured air base of PAF.*



Glad you could join us with your colourful highlights and cheap banter.

Since you thrive in oblivion, let me enlighten you, this is an aircraft production facility and housing one or two air defence squadrons..... not exactly what one would call a strategic facility. Take your tranquillisers and chill.

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## Arsalan

it is being reported as a foreign supported terrorist activity.
All of the killed eight terrorists are foreigners and have links in Afghanistan.
it wont be strange if there is Indian and CIA involvement through Northern Alliance in these attacks.






However, as bottom line, the situation is uncontrolled, they were not able to reach there targets and this is a Job well done by Pakistani Security Forces. We have averted another PNS Mehran episode!

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## Mani2020

The intention was to destroy saab-2000 aircraft , speaks tons about the hands involved ...but as usual zardari will keep sleeping and establishment will not take any action...even we will not see the reports

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## iPhone

Syama Ayas said:


> Better handling of incident than Mehran


 You are right. I was thinking its going to take a day or close to two. But they did a much better job than mehran.

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## prabhakar

arsalanaslam123 said:


> it is being reported as a foreign supported terrorist activity.
> All of the killed eight terrorists are foreigners and have links in Afghanistan.
> it wont be strange if there is Indian and CIA involvement through Northern Alliance in these attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, as bottom line, the situation is uncontrolled, they were not able to reach there targets and this is a Job well done by Pakistani Security Forces. We have averted another PNS Mehran episode!


 

For how long u want to keep living in denial ? Pakistan had several terrorist attacks. have u revealed any finding which say that Indians were involved ?


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## Alfa-Fighter

Mani2020 said:


> The intention was to destroy saab-2000 aircraft , speaks tons about the hands involved ...but as usual zardari will keep sleeping and establishment will not take any action...even we will not see the reports



its totally Army calls, don't you understand even after years , your all major decision is controlled by Army and Civilian govt. of only a face to show off and when it utility is done then coupe happened. 

So blame Army and its ISI for mess and not civilian govt.


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## Apóll&#333;n




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## MilSpec

Condolences for the families of personnel affected.


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## Mani2020

There was a clear cut intelligence report about the possible attack on a PAF airbase on the exact date ,the report was handed over to IG punjab but as usual the police is no more than a a$$ licker ...they are more into corruption stuff rather than security ....

And zardari forget about this bastard he is more onto foreign tours rather than concerning about Pakistan's own matters ....those will be the traitors who will again vote for him...shoot them in the head


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## karan.1970

Last Hope said:


> Actually I do. Not all installations of-course.
> 
> But the Pentagon knows more than me. (Not all installations again). The Nuclear capable missiles are kept in stores underground and buried deep in mountains, which are in three separate segments (M-11s). They are dismounted, and have to be built. The parts of missiles are kept in different places of the same area which are specially guarded by ISI (we have had a security breach by CIA into atleast one of the installations near Kalabagh), Special Services of Strategic Forces and what not. Only a fool can imagine a Nuke getting stolen, any country it be.



If a person who posts so frequently on an internet forum and is not cautious enough to not brag about it, knows about the locations of Pakistan nuclear arsenal (even if it is partial), then I guess some people are rightly worried about its safety.. Though I do believe that you are simply bragging..


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## Mani2020

Alfa-Fighter said:


> its totally Army calls, don't you understand even after years , your all major decision is controlled by Army and Civilian govt. of only a face to show off and when it utility is done then coupe happened.
> 
> So blame Army and its ISI for mess and not civilian govt.



I mentioned the word establishment , are you that dumb and il-literate to not understand what it goes for


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## Windjammer

Alfa-Fighter said:


> Or it might be a Show job done by PAK army (ISI) itself to show world its victim of terror , Stage Managed........



Perhaps they should have done it for longer period, like Mumbai, to get more world attention. !!


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## Haseebullah

You people with your anti PAF verdicts can just shove it up where the sun don't shine!
Just bring in the factors,shab-e-barat means a lot of people were in prayers right smack in the peak hour,approaching eid means a lot were on vacation and being ramadhan means the guards must be getting ready for sehri.I mean they are also normal people like us,they don't like living in their own country like they are at war.It's not as easy as you may think. The retaliation was good enough.Do you guys remember when F-16 engines were stolen from an Israeli base,yes it happens to the best of us. It's not easy fighting as enemy from within.
No military base in the world is invulnerable.

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## Capt.Popeye

Oldman1 said:


> Then its probably true since the Taliban hit first to prevent any possible operation. They must know something.



Don't underestimate the Taliban. They've permeated everywhere in Pakistan. While they may not be too many in numbers, the problem is that nobody knows exactly who they are and when they will strike next. Those snakes will be extremely hard to smoke out. Plus its very "Hydra-like" in character. Tough call really.


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## Awesome

Somehow terrorists always end up targetting things that are geared towards fighting India in these attacks.

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## fatman17

what a waste of bandwidth? amazing the thread has been hijacked by both sides.

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## mjnaushad

Alfa-Fighter said:


> Or it might be a Show job done by PAK army (ISI) itself to show world its victim of terror , Stage Managed........
> 
> Causality speaks itself.....
> 
> Look the News:-
> Heavily Armed Terrorist
> Well Trained Terrorist
> Well informed Terrorist
> In Army Uniform
> 
> Only managed to kill one Solider????? even in the check post their are 5-6 soldiers stationed and in a surprise attack even one terrorist can kill all 5-6.
> 
> This is Happened in every other part of world , other then PAK.



Just like Mumbai .....10 people were not detected by full Indian navy.....we killed our 1 man but India....SHAME on India it let hundreds of it people die so it can cry victim in international community....

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## Dance

Now they are reports that they heard another blast near Kamra


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## Mani2020

Asim Aquil said:


> Somehow terrorists always end up targetting things that are geared towards fighting India in these attacks.


 
That is what i was pointing out ...but thanks to our corrupt politicians for weak diplomacy


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## Roybot

Asim Aquil said:


> Somehow terrorists always end up targetting things that are geared towards fighting India in these attacks.



Could very well be ploy to get India and Pakistan fight each other? Thats why they choose such blatant "India centric" targets?


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## mjnaushad

Asim Aquil said:


> Somehow terrorists always end up targetting things that are geared towards fighting India in these attacks.



Thats what i am trying to say.....


Why dont attack JF 17 or F16 bases...... How about shamsi airbase which is in disturbed area of baluchistan.... And the base which is actually used to target them..... Why P3s and Saab (failed try).....

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## tarrar

Harry Potter said:


> This incident happened a few hours after Panetta's comments:
> Pak nukes may fall into terrorists hands: Panetta


 
Propaganda begins & this is exactly what they want.


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## Roybot

mjnaushad said:


> Thats what i am trying to say.....
> 
> 
> *Why dont attack JF 17 or F16 bases...... How about shamsi airbase which is in disturbed area of baluchistan...*. And the base which is actually used to target them..... Why P3s and Saab (failed try).....



Don't give them ideas now.


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## Manticore

alpha fighter , a pak soldier died in the cause.. show respect OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS THREAD

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## mjnaushad

Roybot said:


> Don't give them ideas now.



Like they dont know about it......


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## prabhakar

mjnaushad said:


> Thats what i am trying to say.....
> 
> 
> Why dont attack JF 17 or F16 bases...... How about shamsi airbase which is in disturbed area of baluchistan.... And the base which is actually used to target them..... Why P3s and Saab (failed try).....



This can be answered by your intelligence agencies. they have the bodies let them investigate and come out with truth. As per my knowledge Mehran was a insider job.


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## T-Rex

Harry Potter said:


> This incident happened a few hours after Panetta's comments:
> Pak nukes may fall into terrorists hands: Panetta



*Their CIA terrorists train these TTP terrorists in Afghanistan, so they can tell when something like this about to happen.*


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## mjnaushad

prabhakar said:


> This can be answered by your intelligence agencies. they have the bodies let them investigate and come out with truth. As per my knowledge Mehran was a insider job.



Your knowledge as well......... And once again (2nd time in this thread alone) how was that Inside job????


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## prabhakar

mjnaushad said:


> Your knowledge as well......... And once again (2nd time in this thread alone) how was that Inside job????



the knowledge they had was incredible about the Mehran base. Outsider could not have so much details regarding Mehran. And the fact the pakistan authorities didn't blame any foreign forces either.


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## Arsalan

*IMPORTANT*

Despite being well armed with RPG and sophisticated close combat weapon system, the militants were not even able to REACH their target let alone destroy them. *This is a successful operation by Pakistani security forces and reflects that our military assets are in secured hand and will not be compromised!*

This is not a case of being ashamed that the base were attacked, the truth is we are in a state of war fighting Terrorists, both local and foreigner. The weapons they carry, the methods they use the targets they set confirm that that are no ordinary tribesmen. They are being supported by big international agencies that always worked to harm Pakistan. Even in these tough conditions, PA and the overall military forces are putting up a splendid show. the Militants are getting there a$$ kicked and are running around now. In these times of desperation, such attack do not come as surprise. the Foreign hands involved would have loved to see some PAF men and our Chinese friends killed and some of latest JF-17 thunders burning on ground. 

*Thanks to Allah and the professionalism of Pakistani Security forces, the attack have been retaliated, all attackers killed and ALL ASSETS secured!*

This goes to show that all the talks about our Nuclear Assets not secured and our military venerable are all rubbish, unfortunately, our media is playing in enemy's hands and playing a negative role. For me, this goes as a day of pride and confidence that our men, who stand guard while we sleep are well trained, ready and most importantly, committed to the extent that they can lay there life to protect our motherland!

Pakistan Zindabad

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## karan.1970

Dance said:


> Now they are reports that they heard another blast near Kamra



LINK???????


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## Mani2020

prabhakar said:


> *the knowledge they had was incredible about the Mehran base*. Outsider could not have so much details regarding Mehran. And the fact the pakistan authorities didn't blame any foreign forces either.



And that is for what intelligence agencies are there ... Oh do you expect from zardari and co to blame any foreign forces? specially when zardari was the one justifying himself indian violation of Pak airspace even before any statement came out form indian officials ....

You should be happy that Pak has leaders like zardari and his followers and voters


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## fatman17

*Pakistan: 5 Militants Dead As Army Restores Order At Air Base*

August 16, 2012

Pakistan Air Force and Special Services Group commandos of the Pakistan army have completed the operation against the attackers at Kamra Air Base in which five to six militants were reportedly killed, Geo News reported Aug. 15. The search for more militants is still under way in the surrounding area of the facility, sources said. The body of a suicide bomber strapped with explosives was found close to the impact area and six security personnel were reportedly injured, one allegedly in critical condition

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## karan.1970

Asim Aquil said:


> Somehow terrorists always end up targetting things that are geared towards fighting India in these attacks.



because that becomes a double whammy for pakistan.. kind of insult to injury


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## EagleEyes

Eight militants killed in Kamra airbase attack: PAF officials

ATTOCK: Heavily armed militants stormed the Pakistan Air Force&#8217;s (PAF) Minhas airbase at Kamra during the early hours of Thursday, sparking an intense gun battle lasting almost five hours, DawnNews reported.

The militants were said to be armed with automatic weapons, grenades and suicide vests. Intense exchange of fire between militants and security forces ensued after the attackers infiltrated the base, located in Attock, Punjab.

PAF officials confirmed that all eight attackers have been killed. One Pakistani soldier also lost his life in the attack, confirmed officials.

The base has been cleared. The operation has been completed,&#8221; a PAF spokesman said.

It was not immediately clear how the attackers managed to enter the sprawling base this time.

Although the attack took place at about 2 am, it is likely many of the soldiers on the base were awake for prayers or breakfast during the fasting month of Ramazan.

The gunmen disguised themselves in uniforms and got inside the facility will renew questions about security, particularly at a base which has been attacked twice before.

&#8220;Other miscreants then fired RPGs from outside the base boundary wall. As a result one PAF aircraft got damaged,&#8221; the air force said in a statement.

Gunfire, rocket and hand grenade explosions were heard during heavy clashes. One officer told AFP that he saw flames after waking up for his pre-dawn meal.

&#8220;There was an announcement by megaphone for soldiers not to move from the barracks and we were forbidden from going to the area where I saw the fire,&#8221; he said. Special forces and police were scrambled to the scene.

&#8220;Eight terrorists have been killed and one security official martyred,&#8221; an Air Force spokesman told AFP.

&#8220;The attackers were wearing security force uniforms but I can&#8217;t specify of which force uniform they were wearing,&#8221; he added.
At least seven of the attackers were wearing suicide vests.

Faheemullah Khan, a civilian who lives near the base, said he was at a mosque praying when he heard gunfire and explosions which he thought were military exercises.

&#8220;Then we came to a restaurant, which is next to the main entrance to the base, and heard a louder explosion,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;We saw six police vans rush in, and realised something was wrong.&#8221;

Several squadrons of fighters and surveillance planes are believed to be housed there.

&#8220;One body of a suicide bomber strapped with explosives has been found close to the impact area,&#8221; said an air force statement.

Base commander, Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who led the operation against the attackers, was wounded, but is in stable condition, said the spokesman.

One other security official also received injuries.

&#8220;Security personnel are now in the process of scanning the entire area to check for the presence of any other miscreant,&#8221; said the spokesman.

During the search operation, the officials disabled two landmines which were planted in the area.

Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt has ordered investigations of the incident.

Air Chief Marshal summoned a meeting today at Air headquarter Islamabad to analyse the situation after the attack and to mull over the initial intelligence reports. The meeting would be attended by top leadership of Pakistan Air Force.

Chief of Kamra aeronautical complex and Base Commander will brief the meeting.

Officials also said that one of aircraft at the base was damaged in the attack, which appeared to have been targeted at the PAF&#8217;s fighter jets parked at the Minhas base. Air Force officials confirmed that over 30 planes parked, including state-of-the-art JF-17 Thunder fighter jets.

Three to four of the militants wore military uniforms, officials said, adding that the attackers were between 19 to 33 years of age. It was also reported earlier that some of the militants wore suicide vests.

A joint search operation of security forces and police inside and outside the base was launched. PAC Hospital Kamra was also put on high alert following the attack.

The militants were reported to have attacked the base from Pind Salman Makhan village at around 2:30 am, sources said. When security officials at the check-post attempted to halt them, the militants opened fire. An intense gun battle lasting hours followed. Commandos of the Army and PAF were engaged in the operation against the attackers.

Tehrik-iTaliban (TTP) spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan declined to comment on the incident whereas no other group has claimed responsibility for the attack as yet.

Kamra is located about 70 kms from the Pakistani capital Islamabad. The Minhas airbase is a heavily guarded compound with the Pakistan Air Force&#8217;s Kamra Aeronautical Complex in its vicinity, where Pakistan assembles and overhauls JF-17 Thunder fighter jets in collaboration with China. According to reports, at least 11 Chinese engineers were working at the Kamra Aeronautical Complex.

All Chinese and others foreign engineers and technicians involved in co-production of Chinese and Pakistan JF-17 Thunder aircraft project were shifted to a high profile secure location, sources told Dawn.com, adding that the engineers were not present near the attack area. Sources confirmed that at least 30 aircraft were on the base.

The government and military&#8217;s top leadership, including President Asif Ali Zardari, Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaque Pervez Kayani and Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf were notified of the attack, and the operation was being closely monitored by the army chief.

In recent weeks, military intelligence had warned of the possibility of such an attack on military installations. However, there was no specific information about an attack being targeted at the Kamra base.

This is not the first time that Kamra has been the target of a militant attack. On Oct 23, 2009, a suicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra. Two security officers and six other people were killed in the attack.

Last year, six Taliban gunmen attacked a naval base in Pakistan&#8217;s biggest city Karachi to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden. At least 10 military personnel were killed and 20 wounded in the 16-hour assault.

&#8212;Zahir Shah Sherazi and Mubashir Zaidi contributed to this report.
Eight militants killed in Kamra airbase attack: PAF officials | DAWN.COM

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## Wet Shirt Contest

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> terrorist still there and moving ahead after destroying saab 2000s , thats the bad news



How many Lost ?


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## Mani2020

*Any news about aircraft that got damaged *


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## EagleEyes

karan.1970 said:


> because that becomes a double whammy for pakistan.. kind of insult to injury



Okay.

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## Dance

karan.1970 said:


> LINK???????



Militants attack PAF airbase in Kamra &#8211; The Express Tribune


Only express tribune is saying this, so I dont know how reliable it is


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## mjnaushad

prabhakar said:


> the knowledge they had was incredible about the Mehran base. Outsider could not have so much details regarding Mehran. And the fact the pakistan authorities didn't blame any foreign forces either.



they must have surveyed the area from outside, Internet, etc.... Or perhaps used some of the new spy sat images of our neighbors..... They were so prepared and targeted P3.... Smells fishy...smells foreign.



Now as you claimed it was inside job.... I would like you to come with some solid evidence with your BS....otherwise show some respect to the martyrs of both incidents and GTFO.


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## T-Rex

danger007 said:


> conspiracy again????? how we are benefited from mehran attack????what advantage we will get by destroying P3c orions????....
> 
> don't start trolling...



*You and your big daddy are the only beneficiary, Pakistan has gained nothing from it. For quite sometime you and your big daddy have been trying to prove to the world that it is not safe for the world to allow Pakistan to possess nukes but it is safe for the world when india or israel possesses the nukes. Pakistan does not need her nukes at all but they are essential for regional thugs like india and israel. Uncle sam and its minions are day dreaming if they think they can sell these talks to the world that is not controlled by the zionazis.*

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## Stealth



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## tarrar

This is where the corrupt Govt. will fail again like they have in the past & this will continue to happen over & over again. To be honest this is where we need a strong Govt. which is ready to defend Pakistan at the time when there are cheap verbal attacks from US & her allies. I guarantee there will be nothing from this Govt. to protect Pakistan from such verbal attacks. 

Our country is in a state of war against the terrorists who are getting poured in to Pakistan by US & corrupt Afghan Govt. and at this time a corrupt Govt. is not an option. Pakistan should stay under Military rule until Pakistan is cleared of all this mess created by specially US or Pakistan must be run by those who are patriots and are ready to defend Pakistan at all time mainly in front of US where lost of lies & propaganda comes from, a very strong administration is needed.


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## prabhakar

mjnaushad said:


> they must have surveyed the area from outside, Internet, etc.... Or perhaps used some of the new spy sat images ..... They were so prepared and targeted P3.... Smells fishy...smells foreign



But, pakistani establishment didn't reveal any details regarding it and blamed no one or this is just another conspiracy theory ?


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## tarrar

T-Rex said:


> *You and your big daddy are the only beneficiary, Pakistan has gained nothing from it. For quite sometime you and your big daddy have been trying to prove to the world that it is not safe for the world to allow Pakistan to possess nukes but it is safe for the world when india or israel possesses the nukes. Pakistan does not need her nukes at all but they are essential for regional thugs like india and israel. Uncle sam and its minions are day dreaming if they think they can sell these talks to the world that is not controlled by the zionazis.*



100% agree with you on this. Good one.


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## XYON

Time and again, why were the terrorists able to penetrate the first line of defence (i.e the perimeter wall) of the base? Why were they NOT detected through any motion or video surveillance sensors? Why were they NOT challenged at the point of entry? I consider this mission a failure because the attackers were able to actually get inside the base compound, destroy an aircraft and then engaged the forces 'inside' the compound. Preparedness should have been their neutralization at or outside the first line of defense. Military preparedness is judged by action and not reaction!

And secondly, this attack is 100% TTP & nothing to do with India or the US. Motivation is the recent opening of the NATO supplies and the declaration of a military action in NWA by the Army. I have a strong feeling that another similar brazen attack may be forthcoming again during Eid holidays or immediately after. The next target most likely will be Navy HQ in Islamabad. I sure hope to God that my hunch and feeling proves wrong!

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## Stealth

SSG/SSW/PA Units have successfully eliminated all terrorists that entered Kamra Complex to embarrass Pakistan&#8217;s Valiant Air force that has instead made the nation proud by efficiently eradicating the threat within initial hours. Usually these attacks are carried out for propaganda value and moral boosters and the more time they consume the more they are rendered successful. 

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD 

*** TO ALL OUR ENEMIES 1st - AMERICA sending terrorist from Afghanistan and not even interested to seal the border!

GET LOST US ****** ****** ! (COUNT* lol)


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## tarrar

prabhakar said:


> But, pakistani establishment didn't reveal any details regarding it and blamed no one or this is just another conspiracy theory ?



Pakistan Army & the Intelligence agencies by know who all are involved in this cowardly attack in this holy month. I hope to see a very pissed off Pak Army today & in a days to come because of the lies, propaganda & baseless pressure that will rain from US & to be honest this is needed to shut up US.


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## Mani2020

@ arslanaslam

yar please stop being so optimistic...reaching one of the most important airbase itself is a failure by security agencies ....you cant even imagine how detailed was the intelligence report about the possibility of attack on paf airbase even the type of weapons and date was mentioned.... after so many details if still terrorists cant be stopped than ....ALLAH khair hi karay

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## mjnaushad

prabhakar said:


> But, pakistani establishment didn't reveal any details regarding it and blamed no one or this is just another conspiracy theory ?



We dont get into too much of blame game on official levels...... We do things ourway....


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## karan.1970

Stealth said:


>



It wasnt a Pakistan Special forces op .. It was a terrorist Op.. You should write Successfully defended instead of Operation Successful

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## joekrish

Asim Aquil said:


> Somehow terrorists always end up targetting things that are geared towards fighting India in these attacks.



May be that is what the terrorists want you to think.


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## Mani2020

*So Imran khan had a soft spot for these terrorists *

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## prabhakar

tarrar said:


> Pakistan Army & the Intelligence agencies by know who all are involved in this cowardly attack in this holy month. I hope to see a very pissed off Pak Army today & in a days to come because of the lies, propaganda & baseless pressure that will rain from US & to be honest this is needed to shut up US.



If US was involved they would have target shamsi airbase because they can provide all kind of information...just my wild assumptions.

If pakistan believes that US is involved flush them out from all your bases. They have a lot of information to share with terrorists.


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## Dance

Okay so according to PAF the blasts that were heard just now were bombs found during search operation detonated in a controlled environment.

Militants attack PAF airbase in Kamra &#8211; The Express Tribune

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## karan.1970

T-Rex said:


> *You and your big daddy are the only beneficiary, Pakistan has gained nothing from it. For quite sometime you and your big daddy have been trying to prove to the world that it is not safe for the world to allow Pakistan to possess nukes but it is safe for the world when india or israel possesses the nukes. Pakistan does not need her nukes at all but they are essential for regional thugs like india and israel. Uncle sam and its minions are day dreaming if they think they can sell these talks to the world that is not controlled by the zionazis.*



Normally one see All Bold text when there is little substance in the content

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## Mani2020

joekrish said:


> May be that is what the terrorists want you to think.



Its the other way round...if the above mentioned has been the case TTP wouldnot have been so blunt in accepting the responsibility of attack in all these incidents


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## prabhakar

mjnaushad said:


> We dont get into too much of blame game on official levels...... We do things ourway....



I didn't understand your arguments.. u can cry a river for kashmir on various international platform but won't utter a word against the terrorism against your own countrymen. i find it strange.

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## mjnaushad

joekrish said:


> May be that is what the terrorists want you to think.



But If I say Ajmal Kasaab and others want India to think that we are the enemies and we supported them what will you say???



prabhakar said:


> I didn't understand your arguments.. u can cry a river for kashmir on various international platform but won't utter a word against the terrorism against your own countrymen. i find it strange.



Putting attention on a international territorial dispute and getting into blame game (such as India media blaming Pakistan in first hour of Mumbai )are two different things.....


BTW proof of your claim of mehran being inside job....still waiting...


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## Mani2020

had it been in india... their media would have already started accusing Pakistan

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## Oldman1

Asim Aquil said:


> Somehow terrorists always end up targetting things that are geared towards fighting India in these attacks.



Somehow Pakistani jets are geared towards killing Taliban that is meant for India.

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## prabhakar

mjnaushad said:


> Putting attention on a international territorial dispute and getting into blame game (such as India media blaming Pakistan in first hour of Mumbai )are two different things.....



Balme game !! dude it is like 10 months when mehran took place. any findings so far ? what about attack on sri lankan players .. any findings any revelations ? Most of you believe in conspiracy theories.


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## mjnaushad

prabhakar said:


> Balme game !! dude it is like 10 months when mehran took place. any findings so far ? what about attack on sri lankan players .. any findings any revelations ? Most of you believe in conspiracy theories.



proof of inside job.......Still waiting...


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## Windjammer

XYON said:


> Time and again, why were the terrorists able to penetrate the first line of defence (i.e the perimeter wall) of the base? Why were they NOT detected through any motion or video surveillance sensors? Why were they NOT challenged at the point of entry? I consider this mission a failure because the attackers were able to actually get inside the base compound, destroy an aircraft and then engaged the forces 'inside' the compound. Preparedness should have been their neutralization at or outside the first line of defense. Military preparedness is judged by action and not reaction!



Firstly, the entry to the base is from the main Rawalpindi - Peshawar GT Road, however some news report suggest that the culprits tried to enter from some adjacent village to the base. Sorry but i didn't pick up any news on any aircraft destroyed.
Some weeks earlier, some media sources went all frenzy claiming a major fire has caused millions worth of damage to the MRF, where in fact, some dry grass far away from any facility, had caught fire due to the smouldering summer heat. Rather than making assumptions, Lets wait for the official statement. !!

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## Tehmasib

taliban accept responsibilty for the attack as per tv news....Pakistan Army fighting agaist taliban/so called terrorist. who is behind them...recall your memories....





In case somebody forgets history, back in good days ISI & CIA helped to build Afghan Mujhadeen forces against USSR.. And now??? .....


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## Bombay Dude

Oldman1 said:


> Somehow Pakistani jets are geared towards killing Taliban that is meant for India.



With full Blessings from Sam Chacha! (Uncle)


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## T-Rex

karan.1970 said:


> Normally one see All Bold text when there is little substance in the content



*Now that depends on who's defining 'substance'. Yes, zionazis don't see any substance in what I say, they must not or else their lies get exposed.*


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## clmeta

So when America was training the Taliban against the Soviets, did that make the Talibs non muslims? And after the training was over they came back to Muslim fold?
A Muslim is he who is not trained by India?
The certificate of who is Muslim is getting complicated by the day (I should say the certificate given by Pakistanis).



tarrar said:


> TTP is a group of mainly non Muslims, don't forget who all are training, funding & arming them. When the operation in South Waziristan was going on it was confirmed by Pak Army & the Intelligence Agencies that Indians are fully supporting TTP. Ok pablo. I know you hindis will not agree on this because this is what you hindis are good at, you can search for News Repots on youtube they are still there.


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## Bombay Dude

According to some Reports in the Media, This Base had Nukes.


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## karan.1970

Tehmasib said:


> taliban accept responsibilty for the attack as per tv news....Pakistan Army fighting agaist taliban/so called terrorist. who is behind them...recall your memories....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In case somebody forgets history, back in good days ISI & CIA helped to build Afghan Mujhadeen forces against USSR.. And now??? .....



Also Pakistan actually built the Taliban from where TTP has sprouted out.. So the same applies.. No?

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## swathi

Some members have asked why Taliban is attacking air bases, It was Pakistan Air force that has done maximum damage to the TTP, b) Loss of an aircraft always attract public attention, when compared to the loss of soldiers.


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## karan.1970

Mani2020 said:


> had it been in india... their media would have already started accusing Pakistan



With reason.. Because the people involved in both cases are Pakistanis..


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## mjnaushad

swathi said:


> Some members have asked why Taliban is attacking air bases, It was Pakistan Air force that has done maximum damage to the TTP, b) Loss of an aircraft always attract public attention, when compared to the loss of soldiers.



we are not asking why are they targetting planes....we are asking why the one which are pointed towards India? My Indian friend


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## karan.1970

mjnaushad said:


> we are not asking why are they targetting planes....we are asking why the one which are pointed towards India? My Indian friend



So you have planes designated as India centric and terrorists centric ??


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## mjnaushad

karan.1970 said:


> So you have planes designated as India centric and terrorists centric ??



What do AWACs have to do with taliban..... what threat is it to taliban.... It is India centeric....

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## fatman17

*Militants attack major Pakistan air base; 9 killed*

Thu, 16 Aug 2012 07:27 GMT

Source: reuters // Reuters 


(Adds end of operation)

By Qasim Nauman

KAMRA, Pakistan Aug 16 (Reuters) - Islamist militants armed with rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons fought their way into one of Pakistan's largest air bases on Thursday, the air force said, in a brazen challenge to the nuclear-armed country's powerful military.

*The attack was repelled and only one aircraft was damaged, said an air force spokesman, adding that the Minhas air base at Kamra, in central Punjab province, did not house nuclear weapons*.

*"No air base is a nuclear air base in Pakistan," he said*.

The gunbattle raged for hours, and eight militants and one soldier were killed, the spokesman said. Commandos were called in to reinforce and and police armoured personnel carriers could be seen heading into the base.

The attackers moved through a nearby village under cover of darkness and climbed a nine foot (2.7 metre) wall strung with barbed wire to break into the base. Some were wearing military uniforms.

The assault cast doubts over official assertions that military operations had severely weakened militants waging a violent campaign to topple the U.S.-backed government and impose strict Islamic rule.

Security forces opened fire when militants strapped with suicide bombing vests approached aircraft hangars, prompting other militants to fire rocket-propelled grenades from outside the base's walls, said the air force spokesman.

Base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who led the operation against the attackers, was shot in the shoulder, but is in stable condition, said spokesman Captain Tariq Mahmood.


Search operations for any other militants who may have been hiding in the complex after the attack had ended, he said.

Minhas, 75 km (45 miles) northwest of Islamabad, is adjacent to the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, a major air force research and development centre. Pakistan manufactures JF-17 fighter planes, jointly developed with China, at the site.

Suicide bombers launched attacks near the base and the aeronautical complex in 2007 and 2009, but news reports said defences were not breached.


HOLY MONTH

It was not immediately clear how the attackers managed to enter the sprawling base this time. Although the attack took place at about 2 a.m. (2100 GMT Wednesday), it is likely many of the soldiers on the base were awake for prayers or breakfast during the holy fasting month of Ramadan.

Faheemullah Khan, a civilian who lives near the base, said he was at a mosque praying when he heard gunfire and explosions which he thought were military exercises.

"Then we came to a restaurant, which is next to the main entrance to the base, and heard a louder explosion," he said.

"We saw six police vans rush in, and realised something was wrong."

Several squadrons of fighters and surveillance planes are believed to be based at Minhas.

"One body of a suicide bomber strapped with explosives has been found close to the impact area," said an air force statement.

Pakistan's Taliban movement has staged a number of high-profile attacks over the past few years, including one on army headquarters in Rawalpindi in 2009.

Last year, six Taliban gunmen attacked a naval base in Pakistan's biggest city Karachi to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden. At least 10 military personnel were killed and 20 wounded in the 16-hour assault.

Those attacks, and the latest one, are embarrassing for Pakistan's military, which has ruled the country for more than half of its 65-year history and is seen as the most efficient state institution.

The Taliban, which is close to al Qaeda, is blamed for many of the suicide bombings across Pakistan, a strategic U.S. ally.

Pakistan's military, one of the biggest in the world, has staged several offensives against Taliban strongholds in the unruly tribal areas near the border with Afghanistan.

But the operations have failed to break the back of the Taliban. Major suicide bombings have eased considerably over the past year but that could be due to a tactical shift and not pressure from the military. (Additional reporting by Sheree Sardar in ISLAMABAD and Jibran Ahmad in PESHAWAR; Writing by Michael Georgy; Editing by Raju Gopalakrishnan)


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## danger007

mjnaushad said:


> Just like Mumbai .....10 people were not detected by full Indian navy.....we killed our 1 man but India....SHAME on India it let hundreds of it people die so it can cry victim in international community....




hmmm attacking civilian centers is different from attacking an military or navy or air force base, because these air force are highly secured.... whom should ashamed??? well this is second attack ...... don't you know the difference???? just think with out any information they can't attack highly secured military base... they attempted second time... so this must be inside job.... lolz the way you are thinking...


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## Icarus

Bombay Dude said:


> With full Blessings from Sam Chacha! (Uncle)




The AWACs are not meant for fighting the Taliban. I find some striking similarities between this attack and the one at PNS Mehran.

1) Attack as a section of 8-10.
2) Go after the AWACs/Naval Recon Airplane.
3) Operate with full military efficiency.
4) Are all foreigners. 

In such a position, it is very difficult not to consider a visible Indian influence in this attack.

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## karan.1970

mjnaushad said:


> What do AWACs have to do with taliban..... what threat is it to taliban.... It is India centeric....



This base only houses AWACS ??


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## fatman17

suggestion to our indian members - stop the speculation, it wont get you anywhere and your underlying 'dream' that somehow PAF assets have been destroyed will not bear any results --- so chill !!!

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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> The AWACs are not meant for fighting the Taliban. I find some striking similarities between this attack and the one at PNS Mehran.
> 
> 1) Attack as a section of 8-10.
> 2) Go after the AWACs/Naval Recon Airplane.
> 3) Operate with full military efficiency.
> 4) Are all foreigners.
> 
> In such a position, it is very difficult not to consider a visible Indian influence in this attack.



For the sake of argument.....


1) Attack as a section of 8-10.
*Typical Military tactic.. Not India specific..The same is followed by Pakistani Army too*

2) Go after the AWACs/Naval Recon Airplane.
*They are the most expensive Planes in PAF inventory and are much more difficult to replace.. Every terrorist attack is aimed at maximizing damage*

3) Operate with full military efficiency.
*Typical Military tactic.. Not India specific..The same is followed by Pakistani Army too*

4) Are all foreigners. 
*Any Indians ???*

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## Bombay Dude

> And one of the terrorist put it in his pocket and ran away........



Pakistani Source:

Gunmen Have Attacked And Entered Kamra Air Base In Pakistan, Thought To House Nuclear Weapons - Business Insider


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## Icarus

karan.1970 said:


> For the sake of argument.....
> 
> 
> 1) Attack as a section of 8-10.
> *Typical Military tactic.. Not India specific..The same is followed by Pakistani Army too*



Exactly, which reflects that these people have undergone proper basic military training.



> 2) Go after the AWACs/Naval Recon Airplane.
> *They are the most expensive Planes in PAF inventory and are much more difficult to replace.. Every terrorist attack is aimed at maximizing damage*




These people are not supposed to know this stuff on their own, this kind of knowledge about military hardware suggests a guiding hand. 




> 3) Operate with full military efficiency.
> *Typical Military tactic.. Not India specific..The same is followed by Pakistani Army too*



Reflects proper military training.



> 4) Are all foreigners.
> *Any Indians ???*



Obviously no, that's what these militant groups are for, hired guns........Uzbeks, exactly like last time. Why is it that Uzbeks have a severe dislike for Pakistani planes?

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## indushek

fatman17 said:


> suggestion to our indian members - stop the speculation, it wont get you anywhere and your underlying 'dream' that somehow PAF assets have been destroyed will not bear any results --- so chill !!!



That dream part is what it is a dream, even if we Indians did hope the latest reports show nothing is damaged. Regarding speculation every one is doing this even u in this post.


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## mjnaushad

danger007 said:


> hmmm attacking civilian centers is different from attacking an military or navy or air force base, because these air force are highly secured.... whom should ashamed??? well this is second attack ...... don't you know the difference???? just think with out any information they can't attack highly secured military base... they attempted second time... so this must be inside job.... lolz the way you are thinking...



But to reach those civilian center they needed to by pass full Indian navy, and then they kill the guy investigating hindu terrorists activities, and after that a minister raises voice and called Pakistan agent till he resigned....... Lolz the way you are thinking


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## Bombay Dude

Icarus said:


> The AWACs are not meant for fighting the Taliban. I find some striking similarities between this attack and the one at PNS Mehran.
> 
> 1) Attack as a section of 8-10.
> 2) Go after the AWACs/Naval Recon Airplane.
> 3) Operate with full military efficiency.
> 4) Are all foreigners.
> 
> In such a position, it is very difficult not to consider a visible Indian influence in this attack.



My Reply was for the F-16s given by the Americans, not the attack.

Indian Interests are Better Served by attacking F-16s which would make Unkil take action against PAF by hooking up spares or asking for verification and under their Eyes 24/7. 

Recon Planes hit serves the interests of TTP as it curtails Pakistan's Monitoring Capability.


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## Icarus

Bombay Dude said:


> Pakistani Source:
> 
> Gunmen Have Attacked And Entered Kamra Air Base In Pakistan, Thought To House Nuclear Weapons - Business Insider




1) *Thought*, Even my garage can be *Thought* to house nuclear weapons. 

2) Ok, lets suppose they get their hands on a missile casing (no knowing which part of the nuclear missile could be at this facility), what do they do then with a giant pipe?

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## Liquidmetal

Once again we have been embarrassed by a rag-tag bunch of jahils. 

So this proves that our base commanders and our military men are both jahil and incompetent. 

You have seen time and again our military bases come under attack so assume that all bases will come under attack and have patrol teams patrolling the parameters. Insert cameras and sensors, electrify the perimeter and maybe even mine the bases and insert a double fence system with mines in between. I am a God damn civilian and already my ideas are better than these lame assed idiots running our country including the dim as **** military.


I was angry when I wrote this but I still have respect for our soldiers I just wish our leaders would live upto our Jawans.

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## SR 71 Blackbird

Icarus said:


> The AWACs are not meant for fighting the Taliban. I find some striking similarities between this attack and the one at PNS Mehran.
> 
> 1) Attack as a section of 8-10.
> 2) Go after the AWACs/Naval Recon Airplane.
> 3) Operate with full military efficiency.
> 4) Are all foreigners.
> 
> In such a position, it is very difficult not to consider a visible Indian influence in this attack.


Taliban fighters have military level training,PAF bombs Taliban bases so they want to attack PAF ,Taliban has Uzbek and Chechen fighters.


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## indushek

Icarus said:


> Exactly, which reflects that these people have undergone proper basic military training.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not supposed to know this stuff on their own, this kind of knowledge about military hardware suggests a guiding hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reflects proper military training.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously no, that's what these militant groups are for, hired guns........Uzbeks, exactly like last time. Why is it that Uzbeks have a severe dislike for Pakistani planes?



None of this proves Indian hand, they could very well be trained by any Army in this world.

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## Roybot

Icarus said:


> The AWACs are not meant for fighting the Taliban. I find some striking similarities between this attack and the one at PNS Mehran.
> 
> 1) Attack as a section of 8-10.
> 2) Go after the AWACs/Naval Recon Airplane.
> 3) Operate with full military efficiency.
> 4) Are all foreigners.
> 
> In such a position, it is very difficult not to consider a visible Indian influence in this attack.



I have got another one, both had Chinese engineers on base. Could they be providing the inside information?

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## mjnaushad

karan.1970 said:


> This base only houses AWACS ??



Nope....But they trying to reach to AWACs knowingly that there are more planes in the area as well do raise suspicion.


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## Icarus

Bombay Dude said:


> My Reply was for the F-16s given by the Americans, not the attack.
> 
> Indian Interests are Better Served by attacking F-16s which would make Unkil take action against PAF by hooking up spares or asking for verification and under their Eyes 24/7.
> 
> Recon Planes hit serves the interests of TTP as it curtails Pakistan's Monitoring Capability.




AWACs are probably the only thing that can pitch an F-16 against a Su-30 while nullifying the Su-30's early detection capability.

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## mjnaushad

Roybot said:


> I have got another one, both had Chinese engineers on base. Could they be providing the inside information?



So they can be killed.... A genius you are....

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## Irfan Baloch

Donatello said:


> Airforce sleeping on the job again?



what do you mean again?
it was navy base security that was caught off guard.

by the look of initial news its far better outcome than before

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## Icarus

Roybot said:


> I have got another one, both had Chinese engineers on base. Could they be providing the inside information?



Chinese Engineers are everywhere, I doubt it. They have no stakes in seeing these force multipliers destroyed.

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## Roybot

mjnaushad said:


> So they can be killed.... A genius you are....



But they didn't get killed though, both times locked away in safe houses.



Icarus said:


> Chinese Engineers are everywhere, I doubt it. They have no stakes in seeing these force multipliers destroyed.



Why not, make it look like India is behind this so that Pakistan and India are always at each others throat. And get to sell more AWACS on top of that as bonus.


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## mjnaushad

Bombay Dude said:


> Pakistani Source:
> 
> Gunmen Have Attacked And Entered Kamra Air Base In Pakistan, Thought To House Nuclear Weapons - Business Insider




Do you ever read the news sources you guys post???





> Worryingly, the militants may have good reason to attack the base. Waraich says that the site is home of Pakistan's nascent drone program, and a *Telegraph report from 2009* said the site was thought to house Pakistan's nuclear weapons. Saeed Shah wrote at the time:
> 
> Read more: Gunmen Have Attacked And Entered Kamra Air Base In Pakistan, Thought To House Nuclear Weapons - Business Insider


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## Tehmasib

Bombay Dude said:


> According to some Reports in the Media, This Base had Nukes.



i have not listen this....may b indian chanal shouting that there is nukes....links plz


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## fjavaid

well done PAF n SSG it means PAF,s recent strike on TTP sure has done the damage ....
i dont know why but i feel ripples of this attached may be felt in upper hemisphere too ..


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## Haseebullah

Liquidmetal said:


> Once again we have been embarrassed by a rag-tag bunch of jahils.
> 
> So this proves that our base commanders and our military men are both jahil and incompetent.
> 
> You have seen time and again our military bases come under attack so assume that all bases will come under attack and have patrol teams patrolling the parameters. Insert cameras and sensors, electrify the perimeter and maybe even mine the bases and insert a double fence system with mines in between. I am a God damn civilian and already my ideas are better than these lame assed idiots running our country including the dim as **** military.
> 
> 
> I was angry when I wrote this but I still have respect for our soldiers I just wish our leaders would live upto our Jawans.


So you think we should act like we are at war in our own country,mine the base??
Are you out of your mind.This ain't Iraq brother.


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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> Exactly, which reflects that these people have undergone proper basic military training.
> 
> These people are not supposed to know this stuff on their own, this kind of knowledge about military hardware suggests a guiding hand.
> 
> Reflects proper military training.
> 
> Obviously no, that's what these militant groups are for, hired guns........Uzbeks, exactly like last time. Why is it that Uzbeks have a severe dislike for Pakistani planes?



How does either of the above turn the needle even a tiny-winy millimeter towards India? And about military hardware, well, if people like us know this difference, then people like TTP who have kept Pakistani army on their toes for last 4-5 years certainly know this stuff..


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## KingMamba

Roybot said:


> I have got another one, both had Chinese engineers on base. Could they be providing the inside information?



Perhaps.


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## Irfan Baloch

TOPGUN said:


> Wow man the trolling is in full swing some of you indians live for it i swer ..no human feelings nor thoughts or prayers for human life lost in general forget it for us Pakistani's from so many of you indians shame on you .. you guys are filled with hate really sick jerks.




why shouldn't they?

its the best day for any Indians. dont hate them or complain about their attitude. bless and pray for Ifrikhar Choudry and the pro Taliban media that has created so much support for terrorists that Lal Masjid terrorists and mass killer like Malik Ishaq are celebrities.
as long as our courts will continue to free terrorists this will continue to happen

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## fjavaid

mjnaushad said:


> What do AWACs have to do with taliban..... what threat is it to taliban.... It is India centeric....


Nops Awacs n the modified C130s are continuously been used for recon n Arial intelligence


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## mjnaushad

Roybot said:


> *But they didn't get killed though, both times locked away in safe houses.*
> 
> 
> 
> Why not, make it look like India is behind this so that Pakistan and India are always at each others throat. And get to sell more AWACS on top of that as bonus.



So you expect them to run in open and ask to get shot? Why would chinese give info ...let us hear what your genius mind say


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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> 1) *
> 2) Ok, lets suppose they get their hands on a missile casing (no knowing which part of the nuclear missile could be at this facility), what do they do then with a giant pipe?*


*

Smoke the Afghan Hashish with it *


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## Awesome

Oldman1 said:


> Somehow Pakistani jets are geared towards killing Taliban that is meant for India.



Till now only F7PGs have been used against bombing militants in most sorties.

Attacking the production line where JF-17s are being built is specific.

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## SR 71 Blackbird

Roybot said:


> I have got another one, both had Chinese engineers on base. Could they be providing the inside information?


THe Chinese engineers were targeted by BLA too:
Dunya News: Pakistan:-Dera Bugti: 5 killed, 11injured in Chinese convoy ...


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## karan.1970

mjnaushad said:


> Nope....But they trying to reach to AWACs knowingly that there are more planes in the area as well do raise suspicion.



Read my response to Icarus...


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## Windjammer

Bombay Dude said:


> My Reply was for the F-16s given by the Americans, not the attack.
> 
> Indian Interests are Better Served by attacking F-16s which would make Unkil take action against PAF by hooking up spares or asking for verification and under their Eyes 24/7.
> *
> Recon Planes hit serves the interests of TTP as it curtails Pakistan's Monitoring Capability.*



Since you are all frivolous, and oblivious to certain realities, the likes of SAAB planes, are used to monitor air activity, shipping lanes and large columns of armour/infantry movements....not some rag tag cave dwellers.
In any case there is no suggestions to believe that any AWACS were based in Kamra.

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## rockstarIN

This attack has the foot prints of all the recent militant attacks specially Mumbai, Kabul attacks. 

If the Pakistani establishment really started doubting the Indian hands, the terrorist's first aim is achieved. They wants Pakistan to be engaged at east, so they can spare the eastern terror places.

By the way, did Rahman Malik say something?


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## mjnaushad

Irfan Baloch said:


> why shouldn't they?
> 
> its the best day for any Indians. dont hate them or complain about their attitude. bless and pray for Ifrikhar Choudry and the pro Taliban media that has created so much support for terrorists that Lal Masjid terrorists and mass killer like Malik Ishaq are celebrities.
> as long as our courts will continue to free terrorists this will continue to happen




Question to Mods....


During Mumbai when someone called it inside job was banned as it hurt Indian sentiments...... How about applying the same rule here on Indians for a change.....????


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## pak-marine

OPERATE NORTH WAZIRISTAN >>> CURE THIS CANCEROUS DISEASE

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## danger007

mjnaushad said:


> But to reach those civilian center they needed to by pass full Indian navy, and then they kill the guy investigating hindu terrorists activities, and after that a minister raises voice and called Pakistan agent till he resigned....... Lolz the way you are thinking



It is coast guard duty.... they came into our territory in fishermen trawlers ....anyways .........But later GOI took it serious, and reformed counter measures to stop Mumbai kinda attack in future.... 

what kinda action that Pakistan government took after mehran attack....


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## Hyperion

First of all I don't believe that the dead terrorists were foreigners. Yes, they may have had foreign training, however, we are always so fast to jump the gun on 'foreign hand'!

If, they truly were foreigners, then behold, expect a reply at least thrice the intensity in the neighborhood, and this time there will be no holding back on the scale or creativity!


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## KingMamba

Hyperion said:


> First of all I don't believe that the dead terrorists were foreigners. Yes, they may have had foreign training, however, we are always so fast to jump the gun on 'foreign hand'!
> 
> If, they truly were foreigners, then behold, expect a reply at least thrice the intensity in the neighborhood, and this time there will be no holding back on the scale or creativity!



By foreign they meant the ethnicity of the attackers.


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## Haseebullah

Dumb people here need to know a difference,if i fire a bullet at a military base and get away with it then it's a failure.But if i am killed or apprehended in a quick response in the middle of the night before sehri when everyone is busy then i think the security did a bloody good job!
Why can't you understand a difference,they were engaged and they responded swiftly so a good job to the forces from my side.
People need to get a brain.

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## SEAL

People behind this attack are enemies of Pakistan which includes India also but thank God no real damage is done and operation is successful.
Instead of BS'ing Indians better learn from us how to conduct successful operation against terrorists.
India main ***** be mar jaye to blame Pakistan pe aata ha, but our agencies will avoid blame game and will finish enemies in silence.

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## mjnaushad

danger007 said:


> It is coast guard duty.... they came into our territory in fishermen trawlers ....anyways .........But later GOI took it serious, and reformed counter measures to stop Mumbai kinda attack in future....
> 
> what kinda action that Pakistan government took after mehran attack....



The kind that all terrorist were killed.... with in few hours and then clearance operation took place..... but in 6- 8 hours everything was under full control.


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## Icarus

newdelhinsa said:


> What is your problem Bangladeshi 'chuteyea', dare not to call my nation thug.
> 
> What you think your rant will go unanswered because Pakistanis are touchy after this attack, hell no.
> 
> Only a third class mullah can assume that these attacks will make a difference to Pakistan's strategic capacity vis a vis India. This what those bastards may be thinking who are attacking Pakistan's military installations. India do not need to sponsor such terrorist attacks in isolation to punish Pakistan. We have better military brains to understand the negligible value of these misadventures yield.
> 
> Also we are still not that bankrupt or Idiots alarming PAF or PA to have contingencies or give away our surprises we may conduct before military expeditions.
> 
> This thread has given a chance to clowns like you to bark at India without being a party to anything. America is a Daddy of many Muslim nations including your nation whose PM was seen signing deals with them last year. Last Time I heard from Pakistani posters that Bangladesh was thug who back stabbed Pakistan in 1971.
> 
> This is not the first attack on Pakistani military installations in last few years. Just one day back their COAS has categorically mentioned about internal terrorism posing danger to Pakistan. PA is preparing large scale operations against home grown/domestic terrorists in one of their state.
> 
> Pakistan will figure out who is responsible like they did after Mehran base attack, attack on their ex COAS and GHQ etc. Few of their officers have been court marshalled as well. At the end of the day it is failure of Pakistan were people can carry RPGs.
> 
> Go figure it out before opening your big mouth.



Hate Language and Swearing 

*Post Reported *

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## revojam

RIP to brave soldiers


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## danger007

I thought India is trying to improve relation with pakistan.... and I doubt present congress government will allow to help or train those terrorists....


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## karan.1970

Irfan Baloch said:


> why shouldn't they?
> 
> its the best day for any Indians. dont hate them or complain about their attitude. bless and pray for Ifrikhar Choudry and the pro Taliban media that has created so much support for terrorists that Lal Masjid terrorists and mass killer like Malik Ishaq are celebrities.
> as long as our courts will continue to free terrorists this will continue to happen



Take it anyway you want, but a common Indian wouldn't have even cared or read about these attacks.. Its mostly on joint interaction platforms such as these where these events are discussed to death and here also, its individuals scoring points against each other using the nationalistic overtones rather than against each others' countries...

Case in point... on the so talked about BR forum, there is not even a separate thread for this incident and just some 15-20 posts on a generic Pakistan thread...


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## Icarus

karan.1970 said:


> How does either of the above turn the needle even a tiny-winy millimeter towards India? And about military hardware, well, if people like us know this difference, then people like TTP who have kept Pakistani army on their toes for last 4-5 years certainly know this stuff..




I'm not saying it turns the needle towards anyone for now, I am hinting that in my experience, such attacks are not in agreement with the typical TTP modus operandi and seem more like a sting op to me. In which case the militants have to be backed, as a possibility, I pointed out that India seems to be the only beneficiary of these attacks. The TTP would be happy if they destoryed some cobras or F-16s, AWACs and NRAs don't mean anything to them.

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## fjavaid

prabhakar said:


> Balme game !! dude it is like 10 months when mehran took place. any findings so far ? what about attack on sri lankan players .. any findings any revelations ? Most of you believe in conspiracy theories.


why do you people start speaking before thinking or going through any research..
MNS mehran investigations are complete n actions are under way, sril lankan attacker are either apprehend or killed ...... if any one here who loves any conspiracy theories sorry to say its indian media .......jst turn on ur local media there will many theories going on there ....Nuclear base n bla bla bla

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## Awesome

I find this notion of being embarrassed why an attack happened totally ridiculous. You are at a state of war and this is not a matter of synchronized diving at the olympics where talent alone would save the day, this is a matter of people who have intermingled with the rest of us suddenly opening fire and rockets flying about.

We don't even know which aircraft was damaged, let alone the extent of damage, there are also reports that none of the aircraft were damaged. So let ISPR come out with an official statement.

The base is gaurded by Defence Services Guards, and it is likely that one of them got killed which should be the primary focus of ours. All in all, there was massive improvement in handling of the situation as compared to PNS Mehran attack, the attackers were immediately killed, Search and Rescue ended in 4 hours, planted bombs were disarmed/control detonated. All people fighting there were human beings, can't expect supernatural capabilities.

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## danger007

mjnaushad said:


> The kind that all terrorist were killed.... with in few hours and then clearance operation took place..... but in 6- 8 hours everything was under full control.



that doesn't matter buddy, terrorists must think plenty of times to attack an military base..... they should fear to attack ..... what happen to ISI, why they didn't warned ????


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## Roybot

TTP claims attack on Minhas base; eight militants killed | DAWN.COM


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## Icarus

karan.1970 said:


> Take it anyway you want, but a common Indian wouldn't have even cared or read about these attacks.. Its mostly on joint interaction platforms such as these where these events are discussed to death and here also, its individuals scoring points against each other using the nationalistic overtones rather than against each others' countries...
> 
> Case in point... on the so talked about BR forum, there is not even a separate thread for this incident and just some 15-20 posts on a generic Pakistan thread...




You don't want me to start posting links from Indian News outlets where the 'Common Indian' is not only spamming the entire comments section but is celebrating this attack like it was planned by his own "mamay da puttar".

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## prabhakar

fjavaid said:


> why do you people start speaking before thinking or going through any research..
> MNS mehran investigations are complete n actions are under way, sril lankan attacker are either apprehend or killed ...... if any one here who loves any conspiracy theories sorry to say its indian media .......jst turn on ur local media there will many theories going on there ....Nuclear base n bla bla bla



no sir, it was in response of the allegations that India is involved in attacks inside pakistan. In both the cases you have not found Indian hands.


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## mjnaushad

karan.1970 said:


> Take it anyway you want, but a common Indian wouldn't have even cared or read about these attacks.. Its mostly on joint interaction platforms such as these where these events are discussed to death and here also, its individuals scoring points against each other using the nationalistic overtones rather than against each others' countries...
> 
> Case in point... on the so talked about BR forum, there is not even a separate thread for this incident and just some 15-20 posts on a generic Pakistan thread...







> If less than 2 planes are destroyed then the attack is a failure.





> Kamra is a *****.





> what a news to start the day with. more than material damage this has inflicted moral damage on *****.





> Bhaisaab score kya hua?





> Disappointingly low.




All Indians .... and you know where to find them....

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## SR 71 Blackbird

Acc to Pak Media the Taliban leader who escaped from BAnnu Jail is behind this.
He was a former PAF personnel.


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## Haseebullah

Asim Aquil said:


> I find this notion of being embarrassed why an attack happened totally ridiculous. You are at a state of war and this is not a matter of synchronized diving at the olympics where talent alone would save the day, this is a matter of people who have intermingled with the rest of us suddenly opening fire and rockets flying about.
> 
> We don't even know which aircraft was damaged, let alone the extent of damage, there are also reports that none of the aircraft were damaged. So let ISPR come out with an official statement.
> 
> The base is gaurded by Defence Services Guards, and it is likely that one of them got killed which should be the primary focus of ours. All in all, there was massive improvement in handling of the situation as compared to PNS Mehran attack, the attackers were immediately killed, Search and Rescue ended in 4 hours, planted bombs were disarmed/control detonated. All people fighting there were human beings, can't expect supernatural capabilities.


what people don't realize is that getting attacked is not their faults at all,instead they responded with professionalism and killed those SOBs!
Hats off to the forces!



SR 71 Blackbird said:


> Acc to Pak Media the Taliban leader who escaped from BAnnu Jail is behind this.
> He was a former PAF personnel.


Acc to Pakistani media Pakistan and India went to war 3 years back!


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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> You don't want me to start posting links from Indian News outlets where the 'Common Indian' is not only spamming the entire comments section but is celebrating this attack like it was planned by his own "mamay da puttar".



Yaara... we have a population of 1.2 billion.. Out of which probably 120 million have access to internet... Look at the number of comments in that perspective...

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## Icarus

SR 71 Blackbird said:


> Acc to Pak Media the Taliban leader who escaped from BAnnu Jail is behind this.
> He was a former PAF personnel.




He was a PAF Airman over a decade ago. I doubt it, Kamra has changed a great deal since then.


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## Arsalan

Asim Aquil said:


> I find this notion of being embarrassed why an attack happened totally ridiculous. You are at a state of war and this is not a matter of synchronized diving at the olympics where talent alone would save the day, this is a matter of people who have intermingled with the rest of us suddenly opening fire and rockets flying about.
> 
> We don't even know which aircraft was damaged, let alone the extent of damage, there are also reports that none of the aircraft were damaged. So let ISPR come out with an official statement.
> 
> The base is gaurded by Defence Services Guards, and it is likely that one of them got killed which should be the primary focus of ours. All in all, there was massive improvement in handling of the situation as compared to PNS Mehran attack, the attackers were immediately killed, Search and Rescue ended in 4 hours, planted bombs were disarmed/control detonated. All people fighting there were human beings, can't expect supernatural capabilities.



Sir, the RPGs were fired from the boundary wall that landed near an aircraft and caused some damage!!

I don't think there is anything pleasing for ANYONE in the news that a PAF Air case was attacked when one consider that the Attack was well defended, all militants killed and no damage done to PAF assets.

We lost a soldier defending the base, this is both sad, for a life lost, and proud moment, for having such men as our guardians who are ready to lay there life to protect out country. I personally take confidence from this whole incident.

the world must realize that this was an air force base and consider the security measure taken for a nuclear site. the performance and actions of our military forces during this whole episode are a firm reminder to the world that Pakistan will defend itself and is well capable of doing so. Our strategic assets are in secure hands!

regards!

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## mjnaushad

shsshed .....Wrong thread?


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## Developereo

Irfan Baloch said:


> as long as our courts will continue to free terrorists this will continue to happen



I am not sure we can blame the courts. Courts must abide by the law and evidence presented.

The fault lies with the prosecution teams.

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## Icarus

karan.1970 said:


> Yaara... we have a population of 1.2 billion.. Out of which probably 120 million have access to internet... Look at the number of comments in that perspective...




I don't mean to detract from the discussion here but we are a nation of 180 million and probably a hundred thousand are terrorists and yet we are still hated like anything, that's how life goes, a very annoying vocal minority dominates the silent majority.

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## Irfan Baloch

arsalanaslam123 said:


> it is being reported as a foreign supported terrorist activity.
> All of the killed eight terrorists are foreigners and have links in Afghanistan.
> it wont be strange if there is Indian and CIA involvement through Northern Alliance in these attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, as bottom line, the situation is uncontrolled, they were not able to reach there targets and this is a Job well done by Pakistani Security Forces. We have averted another PNS Mehran episode!



rest assured

there wont be any direct involvement of the master minds. thats too risky and against the normal SOPs.
the pictures of the dead terrorists must be released. 
its really irrelevant if the terrorists were local or foreigners because what is important is what their mission and intention was. locals are an obvious choice for any subversive activity at this scale.

I must say that this can be a kind of "convincing" by you know who to not delay the Waziristan operation any more.
the intelligence is already giving warnings of Possible attacks on sensitive facilities, places of worships and political personalities.

as for sensitive installations and military bases, the responsibility lies with the base security and its rapid response units to foil any such attacks. 
Pakistan Naval command of Mehran base has much to learn from the handling of this attack. 

there is no time to be complicit, no excuse for oversight. foreign entities aside, its just another jolt on the mindset of the general population and our state institutions that have been looking the other way while a sectarian beast grew up over decades and morphed into an all out non-discriminatory TTP.

rest assured, one day you will see one of these captured terrorists will be found no other than the high profile terrorists that our honourable courts freed and I wont be surprised if Molana Aziz of Lal Masjid still has sympathies for TTP and Al Qaeda and would be willing host for terrorists.

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## Icarus

Developereo said:


> I am not sure we can blame the courts. Courts must abide by the law and evidence presented.
> 
> The fault lies with the prosecution teams.




I would, the court jumps at the first opportunity to grill the agencies, the military and the government. Shouldn't they be asked why in over a decade has not even a single man been sent to the gallows for terrorism? This bastard that was broken out of the Bannu jail tried to assassinate our president, he should have been hanged ages ago! Same goes for thousands of other terrorists waiting in jails to be broken out.

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## Haseebullah

So all in all the attack was a failure again showing the capability of these defenders of Pakistan!
Pakistan Zindabad!

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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> I don't mean to detract from the discussion here but we are a nation of 180 million and probably a hundred thousand are terrorists and yet we are still hated like anything, that's how life goes, a very annoying vocal minority dominates the silent majority.



Totally agree.....

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## SR 71 Blackbird

Gunmen attack Pakistan air base, 10 dead: officials
Thursday, 16 August 2012

The Pakistan Air Force said nine attackers dressed in military uniforms and armed with rocket propelled-grenades and suicide vests targeted the base and adjacent Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. (Reuters)

inShare

By AFP 
KAMRA

Heavily armed militants stormed a Pakistani air force base on Thursday, sparking clashes that left 10 people dead and raised concerns about the safety of the country&#8217;s nuclear arsenal.

One security official was killed and a plane damaged in the pre-dawn assault at PAF Base Minhas, where suspected Islamists again showed their ability to penetrate a sensitive military site five years into a Taliban insurgency.

There has been a lull in recent attacks, but speculation is now heavy that Pakistan could bow to U.S. demands for an operation against militants in their premier fortress of North Waziristan, in the tribal belt on the Afghan border.

*An official denied there were nuclear weapons on the heavily guarded base, but the audacious assault would likely raise further questions in the West about the dangers of Pakistan&#8217;s atomic weapons falling into extremists' hands.*

The Pakistan Air Force said nine attackers dressed in military uniforms and armed with rocket propelled-grenades and suicide vests targeted the base and adjacent Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at 2:00 am (2100 GMT Wednesday).

The complex assembles Mirage and, with Chinese help, JF-17 fighter jets.

PAF Minhas, in the town of Kamra in Punjab province 60 kilometers (35 miles) northwest of Islamabad, has been attacked twice before.

&#8220;Eight miscreants were killed inside the Minhas base boundary wall and one miscreant exploded himself outside the perimeters where he was hiding,&#8221; the air force announced in an updated statement.

It said there had been a shootout &#8220;for more than two hours&#8221; and 10 hours after the assault began, spokesman Tariq Mahmood confirmed the base was &#8220;totally safe.&#8221;

Witnesses said the attackers came round the back, exploiting the holiest night of the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan to remain undetected as long as possible.

&#8220;Most of the male residents (from the village at the back) were in mosques for special prayers,&#8221; local resident Athar Abbas told Express Television.

&#8220;I heard three or four explosions, there was heavy gunfire also,&#8221; he said. &#8220;It appears that the militants arrived using a village track and climbed over the wall.&#8221;

One officer told AFP that he saw flames after waking up for his late night meal, eaten during the dawn-to-dusk Muslim fasting month.

&#8220;There was an announcement by megaphone for soldiers not to move from the barracks and we were forbidden from going to the area where I saw the fire,&#8221; he said. Special forces and police were scrambled to the scene.

Air force spokesman Mahmood said one security official had been killed, and the base commander wounded in the shoulder. Previous militant assaults on Pakistani military bases have exacted far higher casualty tolls.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility but the Pakistani Taliban have targeted a string of military bases since rising up against the government in July 2007.

In May 2011, it took 17 hours to quell an attack on an air base in Karachi claimed by the Taliban, piling embarrassment on the armed forces just three weeks after U.S. troops killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan.

Thursday&#8217;s attack was the second in weeks to see troops die near the relatively secure capital. Gunmen on July 9 killed seven security personnel who had camped by a river less than 160 kilometres (100 miles) southeast of Islamabad.

Pakistan has been on alert for Independence Day on Tuesday and the Muslim festival of Eid, which is expected to begin at the weekend.

On Tuesday, the head of the army, General Ashraf Kayani, used his Independence Day address to describe the war on terror as &#8220;our own war and a just war too&#8221; -- not an American conflict as often portrayed.

He said &#8220;no state can afford a parallel system of governance and militias,&#8221; and called on the nation to stand united or face the risk of a &#8220;civil war situation.&#8221;

Pakistan says 35,000 of its people, including more than 3,000 soldiers, have been killed as a result of terrorism since the 9/11 attacks and the 2001 U.S.-led invasion of neighboring Afghanistan.

The base in Kamra was previously targeted on October 23, 2009 when a suicide bomber killed six civilians and two Pakistan Air Force personnel at a checkpoint.

On December 10, 2007, at least five children of base employees were wounded when a suicide car bomber struck a school bus.

Gunmen attack Pakistan air base, 10 dead: officials


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## airmarshal

To target specific area of the base to me means one of the two things 

1. Inside info, which is highly unlikely
2. Satellite imagery info and guidance, which is highly likely

I stress point 2 because this TTP is not a rag tag terror group. it is being supported, trained and resourced from across the border. Their attacks help the western narrative on Pakistan.

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## Windjammer

Hope this is not out of place but at long last, an article by Alan Warnes in the forth coming issue of Air International should reveal how the PAF is hitting and hurting these scumbags, some supporting images are waiting clearance from the Air HQs....you can imagine the rest. !!


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## Irfan Baloch

danger007 said:


> that doesn't matter buddy, terrorists must think plenty of times to attack an military base..... they should fear to attack ..... what happen to ISI, why they didn't warned ????



why do you say that? ISI even warned about Mehran and GHQ attack. it has already warned possible threat to Imran Khan and other personalities.

its the job of the security of the base or a place to foil the attack. in a best possible scenario, the terrorists will be killed before they even leave their hideout to attack or will be blown to bits by hellfire from miles. 

but this is not occupied territory like Afghanistan. where the Americans fancy shooting even the passers by. so reaction time is very small. but still its hell of an achievement. there is civilian population all around the base and people work on their fields, channel water from the canals to their fields and do all the daily stuff like travelling on the roads next to the base boundaries. that cant be helped. but once someone intrudes then there is a reaction and you see the results.

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## Stealth

For Indians keep in mind forever!

Whatever it is either nuclear weapons are there or not or whatever your daddy USA bullshits...

PAKISTAN WILL NEVER EVER ALLOW ANYONE TO EVEN TRY ANYTHING AGAINST ITS NUCLEAR DAMN YOU MIND IT!

IF any kind of issue raise by US or any kuta bila PAKISTAN ENEMY Nation PAkistan will **** harder thn even think!

PAKISTAN NUCLEAR ASSETS ARE IN PAKISTAN's HAND not in kuta bila hand!


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## Hyperion

Developereo said:


> I am not sure we can blame the courts. Courts must abide by the law and evidence presented.
> 
> The fault lies with the prosecution teams.


No mate, I feel as if IB is correct. The CJ & Co have taken very obvious pro-islamists stance. This needs to change. If he wants his children to grow in such a 'pure' environment, where these monsters roll free, why not send his own family members to the land of god, instead of destroying Quaid's land?

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## Developereo

airmarshal said:


> To target specific area of the base to me means one of the two things
> 
> 1. Inside info, which is highly unlikely
> 2. Satellite imagery info and guidance, which is highly likely
> 
> I stress point 2 because this TTP is not a rag tag terror group. it is being supported, trained and resourced from across the border. Their attacks help the western narrative on Pakistan.



Sadly, I would keep both possibilities open.


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## S.Y.A

Irfan Baloch said:


> what do you mean again?
> it was navy base security that was caught off guard.
> 
> by the look of initial news its far better outcome than before



the navy base was located inside paf base, so it was essentially a lapse on paf's part that caused the whole bloody episode


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## Hyperion

Irfan Baloch said:


> but this is not occupied territory like Afghanistan. where the Americans fancy shooting even the passers by. so reaction time is very small. but still its hell of an achievement.


True, true & true!


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## Irfan Baloch

mjnaushad said:


> Question to Mods....
> 
> 
> During Mumbai when someone called it inside job was banned as it hurt Indian sentiments...... How about applying the same rule here on Indians for a change.....????



I am not encouraging Indian trolling

merely stating the fact that they cant be forced to bleed their hearts out for this attack. its understandable. 
please read Sa'dat Hassan Manto's story called "Yazid" the name of the book is also Yazid.

you will get my point.

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## Capt.Popeye

Icarus said:


> You don't want me to start posting links from Indian News outlets where the 'Common Indian' is not only spamming the entire comments section but is celebrating this attack like it was planned by his own "mamay da puttar".



Icarus,
You certainly know better than to be swayed by what some people are posting as comments on the internet. Who is celebrating is even irrelevant simply because the "celebrant", his "maama" and his "maamay da putar" are all so insignificant to the event that has occurred. Just that all those blokes have a means to put out on the net; thanks to *www.* Nothing else.

However this episode simply raises very serious questions about some things. I am sure that has grabbed your attention more vigorously than any of the "side-shows" by a motley bunch.

Most of all Belated Congratulations (did not visit the forum for some time unfortunately) on your well-deserved elevation to your present assignment, May I wish you a fruitful tenure. 
Just as I'd like to congratulate Fatman17 for handling the helm so capably in his time.


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## Peregrine

According to fresh reports, their target was an AWAC stationed there.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

which aircraft damaged? 
any news


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## Arsalan

Hyperion said:


> First of all I don't believe that the dead terrorists were foreigners. Yes, they may have had foreign training, however, we are always so fast to jump the gun on 'foreign hand'!
> 
> If, they truly were foreigners, then behold, expect a reply at least thrice the intensity in the neighborhood, and this time there will be no holding back on the scale or creativity!





Irfan Baloch said:


> rest assured
> 
> thee wont be any direct involvement of the master minds. thats too risky and against the normal SOPs.
> the pictures of the dead terrorists must be released.
> its really irrelevant if the terrorists were local or foreigners because what is important is what their mission and intention was. locals are an obvious choice for any subversive activity at this scale.
> 
> *I must say that this can be a kind of "convincing" by you know who to not delay the Waziristan operation any more.*
> the intelligence is already giving warnings of Possible attacks on sensitive facilities, places of worships and political personalities.
> 
> as for sensitive installations and military bases, the responsibility lies with the base security and its rapid response units to foil any such attacks.
> Pakistan Naval command of Mehran base has much to learn from the handling of this attack.
> 
> there is no time to be complicit, no excuse for oversight. foreign entities aside, its just another jolt on the mindset of the general population and our state institutions that have been looking the other way while a sectarian beast grew up over decades and morphed into an all out non-discriminatory TTP.


It is reported that all attackers are of foreign ethnicity!!
mean while TTP claims responsibility. http://dawn.com/2012/08/16/militants-attack-pakistani-airbase-at-kamra/ 



> rest assured, one day you will see one of these captured terrorists will be found no other than the high profile terrorists that our honourable courts freed and I wont be surprised if Molana Aziz of Lal Masjid still has sympathies for TTP and Al Qaeda and would be willing host for terrorists


Total agreed, the SC and Chaudray sb are just poking its nose where it do not belongs.
The Lal Masjid saga was a case of BAD BAD REPORTING by media, the ALWAYS NEGATIVE MINDSET of Pakistani media made the terrorists, the ones responsible of creating a state with in the state look innocent. they have been made heroes and at liberty to do whatever they want!! Epic Failure on part of our Media and Judiciary!!

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## Icarus

S.Y.A said:


> the navy base was located inside paf base, so it was essentially a lapse on paf's part that caused the whole bloody episode



It's a joint base, the area attacked was under Naval Command.


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## S.M.R

Their target was similar one like Mehran base. Surveillance Aircraft, first they targeted PC3 Orions, now this one. There was only one such aircraft, got minor damages, but it is safe.


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## Amolthebest

Very Sad. RIP to soldiers. But bitter fact is Pakistani members are rare guests in drone attacks thread . These attacks on security establishment thread will meet the same fate soon. Just my observation in this forum. No offence. Dont want to troll.


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## Arsalan

At last some articles taking sense!!



> *Kamra attack: 'Minimal damage, militant deaths clear proof of preparedness'*
> ISLAMABAD: Hours after a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base in Kamra was attacked, Defence Minister Naveed Qamar said that the death toll of the militants and the minimal damage caused to the base is clear proof of the preparedness of the forces.
> 
> The attack by militants on the PAF airbase and operation by security forces lasted for over four hours in which at least eight militants and one security official were killed. The base was attacked during the early hours of Thursday.
> 
> Speaking to the media in Islamabad, Qamar said, &#8220;The security of the air force was alert to retaliate in case of a possible attack and they did. We challenged the militants on different parameters, in which one of our soldiers who was posted at the security tower was martyred.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;They had suicide vests clasped around them and were carrying heavy weaponry. They had attacked the base with an intention of having a do or die battle. However, with minimum damage caused to the base &#8211; with only one plane destroyed &#8211; the security forces were able to eliminate the terrorists.&#8221;
> 
> The defence minister said that the actual number of militants involved in the attack can only be ascertained once the inquiry is concluded.
> 
> When asked whether the attack was a result of an intelligence failure, he said that such attacks could only be defended to a certain extent and that the base is located in an urban residential area which always poses a threat of a possible infiltration.
> 
> Responding to a question regarding moving the complex away from the residential area, Qamar said it is not easy to move such big complexes that are built with massive investments. However, he said that the idea of sifting the complex will be reviewed.
> 
> The base is home to the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex that assembles Mirage and, with Chinese support, JF-17 fighter jets. It has previously come under attack twice, once in 2007 and then in 2009.
> 
> Qamar revealed that no arrests were made.
> 
> When asked about the security steps taken after Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan had threatened to attack military bases, he said, &#8220;Everyone did what they were supposed to do. The security forces challenged the militants and eliminated them. These are actually what you call security steps.&#8221;
> 
> Disengage from war on terror: Imran Khan
> 
> Putting the blame of an early morning attack on a PAF airbase in Kamra on the army fighting war on terror for United States, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf Chairman Imran Khan said that Pakistan needs to disengage itself from the war and then should consider launching military offensives.
> 
> Speaking to the media at Jinnah International Airport in Karachi, Khan said that every now and then, US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta gives statements and it appears as if the Pakistan Army is &#8220;deaf and dumb.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;People will say that it is a rented army and we take money from the US to fight their wars.&#8221;
> 
> He said that a military offensive carried out in North Waziristan will have its implications on Pakistan, including a rise in terror attacks and will threaten the national security.
> 
> Expressing grief over the attack, Khan said that the civilian government should take responsibility of a democratic government and if it cannot do so, then it should hold elections. &#8220;The government proclaims that it is a democratic government, however, it refuses to take responsibility of the situation in Balochistan and FATA.&#8221;


Kamra attack: &#8216;Minimal damage, militant deaths clear proof of preparedness&#8217; &#8211; The Express Tribune

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## karan.1970

mjnaushad said:


> All Indians .... and you know where to find them....



Ok.. You win.. We Indians loved the attack and were disappointed that more damage was not caused.. Better luck next time ( I personally mean to the security forces, but you can chose this to be aimed at the attackers )

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

just read that a spy aircraft damaged


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## Tiger Awan

Which AC is damaged ??? Any news???


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## Icarus

Capt.Popeye said:


> Icarus,
> You certainly know better than to be swayed by what some people are posting as comments on the internet. Who is celebrating is even irrelevant simply because the "celebrant", his "maama" and his "maamay da putar" are all so insignificant to the event that has occurred. Just that all those blokes have a means to put out on the net; thanks to *www.* Nothing else.




True



> However this episode simply raises very serious questions about some things. I am sure that has grabbed your attention more vigorously than any of the "side-shows" by a motley bunch.




I think that it was managed quite well, however I have some reservations about why these people weren't noticed and reported by locals around the base in the first place, either they arrived just before attacking or they have accomplices in the village located adjacent to it. 



> Most of all Belated Congratulations (did not visit the forum for some time unfortunately) on your well-deserved elevation to your present assignment, May I wish you a fruitful tenure.
> Just as I'd like to congratulate Fatman17 for handling the helm so capably in his time.



Thank you for the kind wishes, I hope I can live up to the expectations of friends like you.

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## Devil Soul

Few days back their was a warning issued to all americans in Pakistan to be vigilant since their is high possibility of terror attacks... i`ll not jump onto conspiracy theories here, but since the americans are pressuring PAK to open another front .. it is possible a foreign hand behind this ....

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## Myth_buster_1

I am glad this operation is over. 
But I think Pakistan must be the only nation on this planet which prepares itself after the wave hits them. GHQ, Naval base, Minhas etc are example of how prone pakistan installments are to such elements and no measurements were taken to stop such a event from occurring. Pakistan SHOULD not expect any respect from any nation when our house is not in order.

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## Irfan Baloch

Icarus said:


> I would, the court jumps at the first opportunity to grill the agencies, the military and the government. Shouldn't they be asked why in over a decade has not even a single man been sent to the gallows for terrorism? This bastard that was broken out of the Bannu jail tried to assassinate our president, he should have been hanged ages ago! Same goes for thousands of other terrorists waiting in jails to be broken out.



Lal Masjid terrorists and people like Malik Ishaq have openly taunted and threatened the witnesses and judges while in the court but they were set free. granted that our prosecution sucks but so does the attitude of the judges who will take somoto action on someone bad mouthing them in press conference but will let go the terrorists who have the witnesses assassinated while under custody and then allowed to go because no one is left alive to help with conviction.

coming back to the story

I cant help but admire (grudgingly) at the bravery of these attacks on high profile military installations like bases and GHQ. I dont care if they were foreigners or locals or rouge ex-soldiers, independently motivated or assisted by foreign entities. 
what I care and what is important for me is their execution and their ability to make a mark and cause a jolt. 

we just cant be complicit. and I must defend the ISI here, they are their jobs very well and putting their necks on the line. its the preventative measures and the preparedness of the base commanders that should foil any future ambitious and outrageous attacks by the anti-Pakistan elements.

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## Windjammer

Amolthebest said:


> Very Sad. RIP to soldiers. But bitter fact is Pakistani members are rare guests in drone attacks thread . These attacks on security establishment thread will meet the same fate soon. Just my observation in this forum. No offence. Dont want to troll.



Ironically, i find the same with Indian members, when it comes to Insurgency in India thread. In contrast just check how many are keenly engaged in this thread..... such a shame when fresh incidents of violence in Assam are taking place.

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## danger007

Irfan Baloch said:


> why do you say that? ISI even warned about Mehran and GHQ attack. it has already warned possible threat to Imran Khan and other personalities.
> 
> its the job of the security of the base or a place to foil the attack. in a best possible scenario, the terrorists will be killed before they even leave their hideout to attack or will be blown to bits by hellfire from miles.
> 
> but this is not occupied territory like Afghanistan. where the Americans fancy shooting even the passers by. so reaction time is very small. but still its hell of an achievement. there is civilian population all around the base and people work on their fields, channel water from the canals to their fields and do all the daily stuff like travelling on the roads next to the base boundaries. that cant be helped. but once someone intrudes then there is a reaction and you see the results.



but Pak should take it more serious...that's good every militant shot dead, and no damage to base but what if they succeed lil damage to any military installation.... take serious measures like by restricting civilians 500 pmeter near base....etc.... and good fencing .... .Uncle sam will pressure more now.....

@ all members: why don't you guys think like this: might be some terrorists organization unable to digest good relation between India and pakistan as it is improving now a days.... may be they attacked kamra and mehran bases to escalate tension between India and Pakistan....


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## SR 71 Blackbird

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> just read that a spy aircraft damaged


Must be a SAAB 2000.


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## danger007

Irfan Baloch said:


> why do you say that? ISI even warned about Mehran and GHQ attack. it has already warned possible threat to Imran Khan and other personalities.
> 
> its the job of the security of the base or a place to foil the attack. in a best possible scenario, the terrorists will be killed before they even leave their hideout to attack or will be blown to bits by hellfire from miles.
> 
> but this is not occupied territory like Afghanistan. where the Americans fancy shooting even the passers by. so reaction time is very small. but still its hell of an achievement. there is civilian population all around the base and people work on their fields, channel water from the canals to their fields and do all the daily stuff like travelling on the roads next to the base boundaries. that cant be helped. but once someone intrudes then there is a reaction and you see the results.



but Pak should take it more serious...that's good every militant shot dead, and no damage to base but what if they succeed lil damage to any military installation.... take serious measures like by restricting civilians 500 pmeter near base....etc.... and good fencing .... .Uncle sam will pressure more now.....

@ all members: why don't you guys think like this: might be some terrorists organization unable to digest good relation between India and pakistan as it is improving now a days.... may be they attacked kamra and mehran bases to escalate tension between India and Pakistan....

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## Stealth

SAAB Target before PC3 Target..... We'r not using AWACS against terrorist so who is actually want to destory ? everyone knows "INDIA"


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## Bobby

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> 6 Terrorist died Well Done pakistan forces ... to kill the insects ... time to launch a counter strike on Afghanistan



They are all non state actors...do you have any proof....


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Tiger Awan said:


> Which AC is damaged ??? Any news???


not sure but they are telling about spy aircraft ,


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## Stealth

danger007 said:


> but Pak should take it more serious...that's good every militant shot dead, and no damage to base but what if they succeed lil damage to any military installation.... take serious measures like by restricting civilians 500 pmeter near base....etc.... and good fencing .... .Uncle sam will pressure more now.....
> 
> @ all members: why don't you guys think like this: might be some terrorists organization unable to digest good relation between India and pakistan as it is improving now a days.... may be they attacked kamra and mehran bases to escalate tension between India and Pakistan....



There are many other ways to destroy Pakistan India relation not destroying INDIA CENTRIC AIRCRAFTS in PAKISTAN AIRFORCE hop you get it!


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## Arsalan

SR 71 Blackbird said:


> *An official denied there were nuclear weapons on the heavily guarded base, but the audacious assault would likely raise further questions in the West about the dangers of Pakistan&#8217;s atomic weapons falling into extremists' hands.*


after successfully defending a militant attack on an airforce bases where security is nothing compared to security of nuclear assets, if they still have any doubts, we can do nothing but laugh at there stupidity.

Again, all attackers were killed, No target achieved by militants, no damage done to any assets!! 
This mission is a success story from start to end!!

regards!

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON




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## Irfan Baloch

Myth_buster_1 said:


> I am glad this operation is over.
> But I think Pakistan must be the only nation on this planet which prepares itself after the wave hits them. GHQ, Naval base, Minhas etc are example of how prone pakistan installments are to such elements *and no measurements were taken to stop such a event from occurring.* Pakistan SHOULD not expect any respect from any nation when our house is not in order.



if that was the case then those terrorists would have been alive and done their maximum damage and escaped.
the news of foiling attacks dont make headlines and mostly kept away from general public in order to safeguard the people and the informants. general intel and possible threat warnings are issued by the intelligence agencies but thats virtually impossible for every single case. no doubt there will be a debrief and review how that happened and how much headsup did PAF base had about this possible attack. even after 911, there was an underwear bomber and a shoe bomber who managed to board the planes and did their job, its only that their bombs betrayed them but you can see that CIA failed to prevent that just like it failed to prevent the plane crashing into Pentagon and the twin towers before. 


my dear, this war is being fought every little moment.

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## Capt.Popeye

Icarus said:


> I think that it was managed quite well, however I have some reservations about why these people weren't noticed and reported by locals around the base in the first place, either they arrived just before attacking or they have accomplices in the village located adjacent to it.



I will agree with that preliminary assessment. They were certainly facilitated by local elements. Though (again on _prima facie _terms) there may have even been some internal assistance (in the planning) though not in the execution. These hypotheses will get clearer as more information on the operation itself and its result comes out. RPGs are weapons that are not so easy to secrete on one's person. 
The mindset that allows (if not encourages) such manner of attacks is more intrinsic and needs to be handled more pro-actively.

But certainly a cause for concern (and action) in the relevant quarters.


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## S.M.R

Surprising thing is that they are targeting our strategic assets. They were much informed and planned that they need to destroy our spy aircraft. They were using life jackets, night vision goggles, latest weapons, they were well trained. Such attach is not expected from an ordinary person, they were having SSG type training. How come they know about the location of our strategic assets?

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## Icarus

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


>




"Zia kay daur main joh officers Madrassahs say aye hain" WTF?

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## SR 71 Blackbird

arsalanaslam123 said:


> after successfully defending a militant attack on an airforce bases where security is nothing compared to security of nuclear assets, if they still have any doubts, we can do nothing but laugh at there stupidity.
> 
> Again, all attackers were killed, No target achieved by militants, *no damage done to any assets!! *
> This mission is a success story from start to end!!
> 
> regards!





> As a result one PAF aircraft got damaged,&#8221; the air force said in a statement.


TTP claims attack on Minhas base; eight militants killed | DAWN.COM


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## Tiger Awan

Stealth said:


> SAAB Target before PC3 Target..... We'r not using AWACS against terrorist so who is actually want to destory ? everyone knows "INDIA"



While there are other ACs in the base who actively participate in operations against TTP they selected SAAB. This cant be a coincidence. You just dont wake up and attack Kamra. Proper Planning= Proper Targets


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## KRAIT

Stealth said:


> There are many other ways to destroy Pakistan India relation not destroying INDIA CENTRIC AIRCRAFTS in PAKISTAN AIRFORCE hop you get it!


Don't you think May be its the best way to ruin the relations attacking an India centric aircraft which makes almost everyone certain that India was behind that......Isn't there a good possibility of doing it. Look at the recent development, Indo-Pak relations improving, trade opened, MFN status to India, Pakistan industries open to Indian market....don't you think its in the best interest of other powers who make billions over our fight.

Its easy to blame India as we are the first target of everything, using Pakistan's past grievances with India.....

I think its a brilliant plan to disturb the peace effort.

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## Peregrine

Geo is reporting that all the attackers were of local descent, but i'll wait for more reliable sources.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Icarus said:


> "Zia kay daur main joh officers Madrassahs say aye hain" WTF?


there are many lies in it , 
also i am sure about indian involvement , 
but sympathizers are there some oldies and many young too mostly at airman level ...



Tiger Awan said:


> While there are other ACs in the base who actively participate in operations against TTP they selected SAAB. This cant be a coincidence. You just dont wake up and attack Kamra. Proper Planning= Proper Targets


they came with proper planning and their target were saab aircrafts and jf-17 factory


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## S.M.R

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


>



What an intelligent person he is. Saying that their objective was not to take the nuclear weapons. Are nuclear weapons like AK47 / rocket launcher that one can pick and run away. Lolz.

and Which officers from madressas have joined PA during Zia era??

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## danger007

Stealth said:


> There are many other ways to destroy Pakistan India relation not destroying INDIA CENTRIC AIRCRAFTS in PAKISTAN AIRFORCE hop you get it!



that is what they want....


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## SR 71 Blackbird

Icarus said:


> "Zia kay daur main joh officers Madrassahs say aye hain" WTF?


He is talking about the radicalization initiated by Zia in Pakistan Army in the 80's.
Children of Zia | DAWN.COM

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## SpArK

75 pages !

_*&#8220;Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.&#8221; *_

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## Fieldmarshal

it is very clear now that this operation just like the mehran base operation was planned and the training provided by raw/cia. (as indians dont have the balls and need to piggy back on some one)
As these aircraft are primary kitted to be used against india. and i can bet my bottom dollar that if it were just the terrorists they would stage random attacks not such targeted attacks as they would not be able to tell the difference between a c130 and a p3c or a saab 2000.
as i dont agree with the analysis that as these ac were used in operations in tribal areas so the terrorists are carrying out reprisal attacks, as we have lots of other platforms for the job and the above mentioned ac were only used as it provided an opportunity to test their capabilities in actual combat.

It has all to do with the case that is being built against Pakistan. Now we will hear and read the western press all shouting at the top of their voice of how insecure and incompetent our armed force our and how easy it is to penetrate our installations. More over it will be argued that if we cant defend our bases than how can we defend our nukes, hence nukes should be taken away from Pakistan.

but these sob (india/us) they plan but at the same time ALLAH plans and ALLAH is the greatest of all planers.

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## Abingdonboy

Guys it is clear we should wait for more details to emerge before jumping to conclusions. Before balking the "boogy man" India one should control oneself. No link with India and terror groups has ever been proved and anyone who says it it has talking nonsense because if so where I'd the evidence and where is the official protest by the GoP? India has given thousands of pages of evidence to Pksitan over 26/11 and other attacks so surely this would be sweet revenge for the GoP? Addtionally for those inferring tht the attack had foreign finger prints just because they targeted AWACs are drawing conclusions they want to be true to absolve them of the real and more bitter truth. The TTP's motives for attacking AWACS are clear- they now see the GoP and thenPaksitani military as their enemy and hence want to inflict as much damage to their adversary as possible and hence it makes sense to attack an AWACS over say an F-16 or JF-17 in the same way it made sense to attack P-3s. The P-3s and AWACS are strategic assets, assets which Paksitan has relatively few hence taking out an Orion or Erieye would have a much larger effect on the PAF/PN and Paksitan as a whole given they are fewer in number, are much more expensive per unit to procure and replace and are "force multipliers" in themselves. Taking out an F-16 or Thunder would be damaging but clearly not as damaging as taking out a P-3 or AWACs. This is clear to any rational person so the TTP don't need to be CIA/Mossad/RAW trained or backed or Einsteins to peruse this line of attack, do they?

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## Peregrine

The frution of opening NATO routes, all hail the military and civil leadership and move on.


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## SpArK

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys it is clear we should wait for more details to emerge before jumping to conclusions. Before balking the "boogy man" India one should control oneself. No link with India and terror groups has ever been proved and anyone who says it it has talking nonsense because if so where I'd the evidence and where is the official protest by the GoP? India has given thousands of pages of evidence to Pksitan over 26/11 and other attacks so surely this would be sweet revenge for the GoP? Addtionally for those inferring tht the attack had foreign finger prints just because they targeted AWACs are drawing conclusions they want to be true to absolve them of the real and more bitter truth. The TTP's motives for attacking AWACS are clear- they now see the GoP and thenPaksitani military as their enemy and hence want to inflict as much damage to their adversary as possible and hence it makes sense to attack an AWACS over say an F-16 or JF-17 in the same way it made sense to attack P-3s. The P-3s and AWACS are strategic assets, assets which Paksitan has relatively few hence taking out an Orion or Erieye would have a much larger effect on the PAF/PN and Paksitan as a whole given they are fewer in number, are much more expensive per unit to procure and replace and are "force multipliers" in themselves. Taking out an F-16 or Thunder would be damaging but clearly not as damaging as taking out a P-3 or AWACs. This is clear to any rational person so the TTP don't need to be CIA/Mossad/RAW trained or backed or Einsteins to peruse this line of attack, do they?



In pure defence point of view, its amazing that the TTP can recognise an AWAC from a regular plane, .... 

I thought the most simple logic would be them saying to each other " dekh uss plane ke upar kuch ajeeb sa machinery hain, chalo attack karein".

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## Tiger Awan

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> there are many lies in it ,
> also i am sure about indian involvement ,
> but sympathizers are there some oldies and many young too mostly at airman level ...
> 
> 
> they came with proper planning and their target were saab aircrafts and jf-17 factory


 
why saab??? What will they get from it??? Why not just target those ACs who are talking part in operations against TTP


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## KRAIT

Ok, this is not a good day, you all seemed so volatile about everything, but calm down before making comments on us....Be civil, I already apologized for my behavior, may be its time you people should show some restrain especially the way you are referring to India and Indians.....

If you have proof, show us otherwise check your language.....I hope MODs will also look into this just like they did for Indians comments....

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## SpArK

Tiger Awan said:


> why saab??? What will they get from it??? Why not just target those ACs who are talking part in operations against TTP



They hate Sweden... hence...

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## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> Ironically, i find the same with Indian members, when it comes to Insurgency in India thread. In contrast just check how many are keenly engaged in this thread..... such a shame when fresh incidents of violence in Assam are taking place.



It IS after all *Pakistan* Defence Forum... Just like you wouldnt talk about attacks in Pakistan on an Indian forum, the same applies in reverse.. 

But talks about attacks on Pakistan in a Pakistani defence forum is nothing to shy away from..

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## S.M.R

SpArK said:


> In pure defence point of view, its amazing that the TTP can recognise an AWAC from a regular plane, ....
> 
> I thought the most simple logic would be them saying to each other " dekh uss plane ke upar kuch ajeeb sa machinery hain, chalo attack karein".



The SSG type trained terrorists using night goggles must have been told that how those planes look like. It is not like that the plane seems alien, attack it.


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## karan.1970

Stealth said:


> SAAB Target before PC3 Target..... We'r not using AWACS against terrorist so who is actually want to destory ? everyone knows "INDIA"



Or USA to blindside Pakistan as they send in their special forces/helis to take out militant hideouts in North Waziristan.. Is it that far fetched??

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## Haseebullah



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## Abingdonboy

SpArK said:


> In pure defence point of view, its amazing that the TTP can recognise an AWAC from a regular plane, ....
> 
> I thought the most simple logic would be them saying to each other " dekh uss plane ke upar kuch ajeeb sa machinery hain, chalo attack karein".



Mate I'd go as far to say they had access to Google! With the radar on top it is a pretty big give away- JMHO.


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## Ark-Angel

mafiya said:


> Serious failure of Air Force Intelligence directorate to follow up the Intelligence passed to them.... Where the heck they were able to obtain *Military uniforms* and badges which allowed them to cross 3 check posts



You can buy military uniform from practically anywhere....


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## Irfan Baloch

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys it is clear we should wait for more details to emerge before jumping to conclusions. Before balking the "boogy man" India one should control oneself. No link with India and terror groups has ever been proved and anyone who says it it has talking nonsense because if so where I'd the evidence and where is the official protest by the GoP? India has given thousands of pages of evidence to Pksitan over 26/11 and other attacks so surely this would be sweet revenge for the GoP? Addtionally for those inferring tht the attack had foreign finger prints just because they targeted AWACs are drawing conclusions they want to be true to absolve them of the real and more bitter truth. The TTP's motives for attacking AWACS are clear- they now see the GoP and thenPaksitani military as their enemy and hence want to inflict as much damage to their adversary as possible and hence it makes sense to attack an AWACS over say an F-16 or JF-17 in the same way it made sense to attack P-3s. The P-3s and AWACS are strategic assets, assets which Paksitan has relatively few hence taking out an Orion or Erieye would have a much larger effect on the PAF/PN and Paksitan as a whole given they are fewer in number, are much more expensive per unit to procure and replace and are "force multipliers" in themselves. Taking out an F-16 or Thunder would be damaging but clearly not as damaging as taking out a P-3 or AWACs. This is clear to any rational person so the TTP don't need to be CIA/Mossad/RAW trained or backed or Einsteins to peruse this line of attack, do they?



thats ok mate

its only natural to suspect the most obvious beneficiaries and the culprits as the time passes and the information is gathered then one can drop the suspects until the real culprit is found. India would do the same if such thing happens in India.

what people are doing is speculating and you shouldn't mind that. the fact that these high profile attacks have actually targeted specialized and strategic aircraft's points at foreign states which might be proven to be untrue but until that happens people will continue to speculate and point fingers at India

but the points from many India are not lost that terrorists would do anything to cause an all out conflict between India and Pakistan. that will mean even a bigger playing field for them. just like in the Middle East Al Qaeda is actually following the civil unrest.

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## Leviza

KRAIT said:


> Ok, this is not a good day, you all seemed so volatile about everything, but calm down before making comments on us....Be civil, I already apologized for my behavior, may be its time you people should show some restrain especially the way you are referring to India and Indians.....
> 
> If you have proof, show us otherwise check your language.....I hope MODs will also look into this just like they did for Indians comments....



OFF TOPIC
you need to understand our feeling right now, there are proofs of RAW involvement as this sort of attacks needs the backup, the equipment used by the attackers were not just available to people like these, there is either RAW or CIA or both helping across the border. 

anywayz if you dont agree then do no reply, proofs like these can not be disclosed over internet forums ,
No one is going to give any proofs like indians didnt gave any proofs for mumbai attacks  just some mobile sim, tooth paste tubes etc

ON TOPIC
PAF and Army should now, take these people accountable, and launch attacks inside afghanistan from where these dogs are coming up, even if they have to attack their supporters ...


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## karan.1970

arsalanaslam123 said:


> after successfully defending a militant attack on an airforce bases where security is nothing compared to security of nuclear assets, if they still have any doubts, we can do nothing but laugh at there stupidity.
> 
> Again, all attackers were killed, No target achieved by militants, no damage done to any assets!!
> This mission is a success story from start to end!!
> 
> regards!



I have no contention with the fact that this was a resoundingly successful defense by Pakistani sec forces and have said it in so many words in this thread.. However, the line USA would take on this is not that the sec forces successfully repelled the attack, but the fact that Pakistan is the only Nuclear power in the world where such attacks on large military establishments happen at such a frequency
Timeline of Pakistan

After all, there just needs to be one successful bid by the terrorists to negate all past failures..

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## itaskol

this news also reported in china. at least 11 chinese engeniers were in this base. none of them got hurt.

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## Arsalan

SR 71 Blackbird said:


> TTP claims attack on Minhas base; eight militants killed | DAWN.COM



Bro... 8 militants attack an air base, armed with RPG, and sophisticated close combat weapons, 
The airbase is the manufacturing hub and home to PAF latest fighter jet, JF-17. 
The airbase where we have foreigners, Chinese engineers helping PAC with JFT project
the airbase where PAF latest AWACS are present

*Do you really think by damage, the attackers wanted to get an RPG land near an aircraft to do SOME damage???* 

--No-- i say again, there is no damage done, nothing that they wanted!!
i hope you understand what i mean to say!

regards!


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## Abingdonboy

Leviza said:


> OFF TOPIC
> you need to understand our feeling right now, there are proofs of RAW involvement as this sort of attacks needs the backup, the equipment used by the attackers were not just available to people like these, there is either RAW or CIA or both helping across the border.
> 
> anywayz if you dont agree then do no reply, proofs like these can not be disclosed over internet forums ,
> No one is going to give any proofs like indians didnt gave any proofs for mumbai attacks  just some mobile sim, tooth paste tubes etc
> 
> ON TOPIC
> PAF and Army should now, take these people accountable, and launch attacks inside afghanistan from where these dogs are coming up, even if they have to attack their supporters ...



I'm sorry but from what I heard these guys were armed with AKs and RPGs not SOPMOD M4s or FN SCARs or INSAS or Tavor-21 or Javelins or At4 etc it is not exactly far fetched to say these can be procured from inside Pakistan and DEFINETLY Afghanistan, right? Their equipment seems identical to that used by any rag-tag miltia or terror outfit and os nothing special, it hardly needs a foreing player to be involved for these guys to get such equipment. Or am I missing somthing?

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## imrankhan7250

All the media reports are suggesting that one air craft has been damaged. Can someone tell me which aircraft was that


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## Hyperion

karan.1970 said:


> I have no contention with the fact that this was a resoundingly successful defense by Pakistani sec forces and have said it in so many words in this thread.. However, the line USA would take on this is not that the sec forces successfully repelled the attack, but the fact that Pakistan is the only Nuclear power in the world where such attacks on large military establishments happen at such a frequency
> Timeline of Pakistan
> 
> After all, there just needs to be one successful bid by the terrorists to negate all past failures..



VERY TRUE. I wish my emotional countrymen understand that, the repercussions of this attack can not be counted ALONE on the basis of how successfully we defended the attack, rather the information-warfare browny-points that will be scored by Yanks & Co!

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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> "Zia kay daur main joh officers Madrassahs say aye hain" WTF?



Prolly, on the same lines as this

Madrassa graduates and labour market mismatches | DAWN.COM


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## SHkhan

Thanx God we saved our jets!!


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## laiqs@mi

arsalanaslam123 said:


> after successfully defending a militant attack on an airforce bases where security is nothing compared to security of nuclear assets, if they still have any doubts, we can do nothing but laugh at there stupidity.
> 
> Again, all attackers were killed, No target achieved by militants, no damage done to any assets!!
> This mission is a success story from start to end!!
> 
> regards!



very true. 
but arslan bhai they just need an issue to raise. and then point at our nuks. 

and 
please tell me that our AWACs is not damage. i am having headache because of this news.


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## Ark-Angel

Stealth said:


> What a ****** performance.... KAMRA Airbase under attack from last 2:40 mins and now Triple brigade just arrived... AMAZING... ***** performance of security... ye kudh ko nahe daysakhtay hamko kya dengay



No trolling bro but it isn't duty of Army to provide security to YOU or even to PAF Minhas. PAF is supposed to guard PAF Minhas and police is supposed to make sure that you are secure. Army to aap pe ehsaan kr rahi hai. No offence sir.


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## karan.1970

SpArK said:


> 75 pages !
> 
> _*Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere. *_



imagination will get you everywhere *Many times over *


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## Leviza

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm sorry but from what I heard these guys were armed with AKs and RPGs not SOPMOD M4s or FN SCARs or INSAS or Tavor-21 or Javelins or At4 etc it is not exactly far fetched to say these can be procured from inside Pakistan and DEFINETLY Afghanistan, right? Their equipment seems identical to that used by any rag-tag miltia or terror outfit and os nothing special, it hardly needs a foreing player to be involved for these guys to get such equipment. Or am I missing somthing?



yes you are missing alot, 

these people attacked with night vision goggles, the person who got killed early in the attack was not from Fata or any other part of Pakistan (proved from finger prints). 

they had satellite images of the base, and check post details etc, there are so many things involved which are not used by any rag-tag miltia or terror groups, 

So there is 100% foreign hand involved.

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## Juice

TaimiKhan said:


> Thanks for the advice, but being an Indian such advises can be expected out of you guys.
> 
> Better advise would be that American should first take control of the shiet they are in Afghanistan & Iraq, while we on the other hand can very well take care of the stuff on our side, no help required.
> *
> And warning for all Indians, if you guys keep giving such advises or other BS, be ready to get changed into Pinkies. Enough of the BS rant from you guys.*


Iraq? What are we in in Iraq? Is Pakistani news on a two-year delay?


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## IND151

this thread has broken the record of Agni 5 thread

1100 plus posts in less than a day!

P.S> congrats to pak members for the success in counter attack by PA

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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> It IS after all *Pakistan* Defence Forum... Just like you wouldnt talk about attacks in Pakistan on an Indian forum, the same applies in reverse..
> 
> *But talks about attacks on Pakistan in a Pakistani defence forum is nothing to shy away from*..


 
Be it on Pakistani forum or something like TOI.....Indians have the gift of the gab.

As for the highlighted part, 75 pages should put any such notions to rest, however something like this usually brings out the drama queen in our Eastern neighbourhood. !!


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## Hyperion

karan.1970 said:


> imagination will get you everywhere *Many times over *



My take on it (copyrighted from now)

*Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will let you circumvent B to Y!*

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## Windjammer

Juice said:


> Iraq? What are we in in Iraq? Is Pakistani news on a two-year delay?



Why, have the Americans discovered the WMDs some years earlier. !!

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## S.M.R

karan.1970 said:


> Prolly, on the same lines as this
> 
> Madrassa graduates and labour market mismatches | DAWN.COM



Pak Army was actively involved in recruiting people from madressahs for Afghan Jehad. They never got commission in Pakistan Army, like he is saying that they have become brigadiers etc.

But one thing really surprises everyone, that in the past they were FRIENDS of all, now they are terrorists.


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## Peregrine

ARY news just reported that an AWAC has been damaged, could be Eyerie or ZDK-03 not confirmed yet.


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## karan.1970

S.M.R said:


> Pak Army was actively involved in recruiting people from madressahs for Afghan Jehad. They never got commission in Pakistan Army, like he is saying that they have become brigadiers etc.
> 
> But one thing really surprises everyone, that in the past they were FRIENDS of all, now they are terrorists.



That's international diplomacy for you.. Just like Pakistan now being hurt by an offshoot (TTP) of Taliban they themselves created for strategic depth in Afg...


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## Hyperion

Hyperion said:


> My take on it (copyrighted from now)
> 
> *Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will let you circumvent B to Y!*



*Imagination is the artificial black hole to success!* (c) < What about this one?

*Imagination alone is capable of bending / breaching the time-space continuum!* (c) < Or this one?


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## Ark-Angel

manojb said:


> You still think ISI #1 spy agency?


 
Intel was there already.


The Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) is planning attacks on the Pakistan Air Force Base and other military and security establishments in Lahore before Eid, according to intelligence reports received by the Home Department.

Threat alerts:


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## jahangeer yousaf

very well done pak army and people of pakistan .... pak army for successfull counter attack and People for supporting Pakistan Army ........ and fitay munh cheif justice for releasing 1200 terrorists which ISI arrested and now the game is on ....... but blame also goes to ISI aswell they should have killed those 1200 traitors on the spot if they were terrorists rather giving them in jail ........ damn it ........ now indian and the media of israil got another chance to yell at pakistani nukes .......


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## Capt.Popeye

Hyperion said:


> VERY TRUE. I wish my emotional countrymen understand that, the repercussions of this attack can not be counted ALONE on the basis of how successfully we defended the attack, rather the information-warfare browny-points that will be scored by Yanks & Co!



Hyperion,
IMHO, even those are not the most important or basic issues involved.
1. Those issues are that such an attack took place at all, even more so after similar attacks have ocurred in the past. 
2. Then the fact that all of these attacks seem to point at some measure of internal involvement in planning and/or execution. 
3. Also, past investigations/inquiries have still been unable to pin-point the exact perpetrators or architects of this kind of attacks.

So I am at a loss to read the measure of 'success' that some people are able to see in its conclusion. 
At best, a certain 'contained failure' may be visible.
Success, if any; is really connected to the three points above.

Of course all and sundry, can throw up any kind of theory and accuse just any living creature of being behind it. Just as a panic-stricken soldier will let loose with his weapon in all directions. And think that he is fighting a war.

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## mymeaningislion

Developereo said:


> I am not sure we can blame the courts. Courts must abide by the law and evidence presented.
> 
> The fault lies with the prosecution teams.



Sir i will disagree to a extent yet courts can't be blamed but if looked closely law of evidence is not overhauled .....which other countries have done so to provide cushion for Security forces and prosecution teams....in pakistan courts are bound to follow Law while law has many loop holes so taking the advantages the criminal got free if ISI picks them up then courts and judges gets angry.....so its pretty annoying situation.....the only solution is revision of Law of evidence ......it will have long term effects.....that's my humble insight.....and i congrats to SSG, SSW for their valour and effort and appreciate their professionalism.....but still need improvement in WAR against terrorism.....and new methods and procedure are to be evolved so to counter each evolving threat....my 2 cent.....LONG LIVE PAKISTAN......


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## jahangeer yousaf

Peregrine said:


> ARY news just reported that an AWAC has been damaged, could be Eyerie or ZDK-03 not confirmed yet.



but the updation which i am getting on FB through official fan page of pakistan army ssg group isi fan page ...... there isn`t anything worry about ........ no damage at all on jets .......... media belongs to israil so don`t believe in them i would rather believe in official fan page of Pak army forces


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## Peregrine

Lets pray that some of them have been caught alive as it would be very crucial in extracting out important information.

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## tarrar

karan.1970 said:


> I have no contention with the fact that this was a resoundingly successful defense by Pakistani sec forces and have said it in so many words in this thread.. However, the line USA would take on this is not that the sec forces successfully repelled the attack, but the fact that Pakistan is the only Nuclear power in the world where such attacks on large military establishments happen at such a frequency
> Timeline of Pakistan
> 
> After all, there just needs to be one successful bid by the terrorists to negate all past failures..



What you also need to understand here is all these attacks are done by US & her allies for one & one purpose only to show the world Pakistan Nuclear Weapons are not safe & Pakistan understands this well that who are involved in all this corrupt attacks. I have been saying in the past & that to for a long time that Pakistan needs to shut US Embassy & US Consulates down because they are not doing their original work but instead they have build a CIA & Black Water office from which they are able to successfully collect the Intel & make these kind of attacks possible. Whether someone believes it or not but this is the fact. PPP is to blamed as well for all this mess because Mr. 10% has signed blind deals with US when he came to power, he is a direct threat to Pakistan. 

US Embassy & US Consulates in Pakistan needs to be shut down forcefully because they are the main culprits who are spreading terror & chaos in Pakistan.

Pakistan is getting staged over here for a big event which will be of course against Pakistan.

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## tarrar

Peregrine said:


> Lets pray that some of them have been caught alive as it would be very crucial in extracting out important information.



I strongly believe one or two must have been caught alive for sure SSG must have been directed to capture at least one alive & they must have caught one. And yes It will be very important if one is caught.


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## Hyperion

Capt.Popeye said:


> Hyperion,
> IMHO, even those are not the most important or basic issues involved.
> 1. Those issues are that such an attack took place at all, even more so after similar attacks have ocurred in the past.
> 2. Then the fact that all of these attacks seem to point at some measure of internal involvement in planning and/or execution.
> 3. Also, past investigations/inquiries have still been unable to pin-point the exact perpetrators or architects of this kind of attacks.
> 
> So I am at a loss to read the measure of 'success' that some people are able to see in its conclusion.
> At best, a certain 'contained failure' may be visible.
> Success, if any; is really connected to the three points above.
> 
> Of course all and sundry, can throw up any kind of theory and accuse just any living creature of being behind it. Just as a panic-stricken soldier will let loose with his weapon in all directions. And think that he is fighting a war.



Agreed. However, this whole situation can be EASILY salvaged and converted into a victory: If the military and media in concert, milk the situation in a pro Pakistan fashion, say, they succeed in creating absolute hatred about the Taliban and can succeed in painting the freely roaming islamic fascists in OUR society in a negative light!

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## skydrill_2

god save pakistan....why so many attacks?? how does normal public live??


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## Tiger Awan

What about the Jalsa you attended in which Mullah Umar was called as Ameer ul Mominien??? Dont bring Politics here



Peaceful Civlian said:


> PPPP Is many times better than Taliban sympathizer PML N.
> We should demolish PML N from politics.

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## tarrar

Peregrine said:


> ARY news just reported that an AWAC has been damaged, could be Eyerie or ZDK-03 not confirmed yet.



I don't think AWACS have been damaged because they were all airborne when the operation was about to start or started. This was the news early in the morning, then later there was that IL78 re fuller was damaged & the pics that were shown on the news channels showed the air craft & there was no big damage visible on IL78.

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## Tiger Awan

skydrill_2 said:


> god save pakistan....why so many attacks?? how does normal public live??



Public live NORMALLY in Pakistan. Even Today the capital is just like it is on any other day. Just a little more tight security


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## W.11

both mehran base and minhas base looks handiwork of the CIA covert op

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## Irfan Baloch

out of the 9 terrorists 3 blew themselves up and other 6 were killed by the security forces


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## Markus

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3315870 said:


> both mehran base and minhas base looks handiwork of the CIA covert op



Nonsense.

Why will CIA do something like this?


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## Free Soul

Icarus said:


> I don't mean to detract from the discussion here but we are a nation of 180 million and probably a hundred thousand are terrorists and yet we are still hated like anything, that's how life goes, a very annoying vocal minority dominates the silent majority.


Rightly said.
Also there is a general acceptance and a romantic attachment of our so called naive silent majority with right wing bigots. And this silent majority has made me sick to the stomach now.

As for this attack ....
Objective: 
Cause as much damage as possible. Take as many lives as you can. Hold the objective as long as possible.
Cause embarrassment for the security agencies and government.

Reports are not yet crystal clear, and would not be for some time in my opinion
Now we know it conducting these sorts of attacks in practice is not that difficult. As the primary objective is just to break into the outer parameter.

Now agencies will not bother with sending the culprits to the courts as the top man there is just there to settle scores with his Army.
LAL Masjid terrorists and their ring leader was released just to piss off the security agencies. with courts attention on more pressing matters Samosa Prises and taking --whats that disgusting term -- Suo motu on a couple of bottle of alcohol caught in a airport  who cares if terrorists are let go from courts.
Enough of blaming law of evidence and its shortcomings in courts. LAL MASJID morons killed and kidnapped people in front of this Naive innocent Silent Majority... there was no lack of evidence...
The Romanticism with these right wing bigots must end.

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## Tiger Awan

Irfan Baloch said:


> out of the 9 terrorists 3 blew themselves up and other 6 were killed by the security forces



So no one could escape!


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## W.11

Markus said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> Why will CIA do something like this?



what do you mean why CIA will do something like this?


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## Imran Khan




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## Leader

Irfan Baloch said:


> out of the 9 terrorists 3 blew themselves up and other 6 were killed by the security forces



and the damage done by them ?


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## Markus

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3315903 said:


> what do you mean why CIA will do something like this?



Your military is using that base to attack the terrorists, right ?

Why will CIA attack that very base?

Are you in your mind?


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## Irfan Baloch

Tiger Awan said:


> So no one could escape!




Militants Attacked Kamra Airbase in Attock Pakistan Full Video Report - YouTube


earlier detailed report, with lesser count. but reporting is detailed and "non-sensational"

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## laiqs@mi

we were hoping to caught 1,2 live. so that would have been helpful ......


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## Irfan Baloch

Leader said:


> and the damage done by them ?



they killed one base personnel
injured 3 personal taking part in the response

and managed to fire RGP at one AWACs plane.. it exploded nearby causing "some" damage. 

the details will remain unclear about the extent of the damage to the AWACs .. only time will tell.. in short I have no option but to state that the terrorists succeeded in damaging the AWACs which was their mission

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## Oldman1

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3315870 said:


> both mehran base and minhas base looks handiwork of the CIA covert op



Looks like the handiwork of the Taliban willing to die to kill.

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## Irfan Baloch

laiqs@mi said:


> we were hoping to caught 1,2 live. so that would have been helpful ......



they blow themselves up

if we start using tasers or gas attacks then this might be possible. or a crippling shots that doesnt allow them to kill themselves

one thing is for sure, these terrorists dont come to surrender. their lies are written off already. they either die fighting or they escape.


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## Cheetah786

Irfan Baloch said:


> they killed one base personnel
> injured 3 personal taking part in the response
> 
> and managed to fire RGP at one AWACs plane.. it exploded nearby causing "some" damage.
> 
> the details will remain unclear about the extent of the damage to the AWACs .. only time will tell.. in short I have no option but to state that the terrorists succeeded in damaging the AWACs which was their mission



So Irfan Bhai is PAF chief or Minister of defense going to resign this is a second attack on our bases not to mention others infiltrations on Pakistani soil and both of them been sleep behind the wheel.If no one is punished this will happen again and again

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## BATMAN

WTF.. AWACS and refulers were doing in a stone throw distance from civilian area?
Civilian areas around defence industries shall be evacuated without delay.
Its cheaper to build replacement villages than the cost of officer and AWACS.

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## BATMAN

Oldman1 said:


> Looks like the handiwork of the Taliban willing to die to kill.



TTP made in Afghanistan in 2006.

Sheltered in Afghanistan. Weapons and boarding lodging organised by Rehman Malik and Asif Ali Zardari.

Legally protected by scum bad Ifitkhar choor.

Today, army need to decide how they want to proceed with traitor regime.


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## Imran Khan

Cheetah786 said:


> So Irfan Bhai is PAF chief or Minister of defense going to resign this is a second attack on our bases not to mention others infiltrations on Pakistani soil and both of them been sleep behind the wheel.If no one is punished this will happen again and again



ever its happened ? and in this case i am not in favor because attack was failed unlike mehran .


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## haviZsultan

It seems the government and even the security forces are totally failing in guaranteeing our security. This is a sad day for Pakistan. Two attacks on airbases make me wonder if the Taliban have a mole helping them out. 

Isn't it true that every man is corruptible so there a possibility that a soldier too is corruptible... if we think with an open mind. How are the militants able to do this week after week after week and our security forces fail to provide us with protection. If this is a CIA or RAW operation (The attack on the Sri Lankan teams timing were right after the Mumbai attacks so makes me wonder if it was revenge) then we have no reason holding back from going to South Waziristan and bringing Hakimullah Mahsuds head back...

Unfortunately not a single commander of the terrorists has been killed... except lower commanders in Swat, Mullah Toofan reigns, Wali Ur Rehman reigns, Hakimullah reigns, Mangal Bagh reigns, Faqir Mohammed reigns, Hakimullah too...

I think we need to begin opening our eyes to the fact that we are becoming militarily incompetent.

Someone in the airforce should show some balls and be accountable. Time for the PAF Chief to resign.


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## Oldman1

laiqs@mi said:


> we were hoping to caught 1,2 live. so that would have been helpful ......



You think they would capture some alive from previous major attacks and tell us who they are.


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## Cheetah786

Complete failure of Intelligence agencies


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## W.11

Markus said:


> Your military is using that base to attack the terrorists, right ?
> 
> Why will CIA attack that very base?
> 
> Are you in your mind?



who told you they would start attack from kamra?


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## Amolthebest

It was doubted that Meharan navel base attack had some internal informers 'inside' the base. What happened later about this doubt. Can anybody enlighten on that. Besides that how about possibility of inner hand in this attack too. In larger picture I think its about extremest elements in ISI and Pakistan Army who are supporting those terrorists elements.


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## arslan_treen

Ok some updated info for Clearing up some confusions.

1) In total 9 terrorist Dead 
2) The base was on High red alert with a imminent attack threat 
3) The security was divided into three tiers , Boundary wall security was given to Regular Army Units , Internal second Tier was handled by Army Rapid Response units and last tier Hanger security was responsibility of Air Force security units (SSG /SSW Units were deployed only to respond in emergency situation) 
3) Attack happened when 6 terrorist (Dressed as security personal) jumped and cut 12 Ft high barbed outer boundary wall , 
4) Security personal placed on wall alert (Emergency command unit ) of the breach and engages the infiltrators
5) Rapid response units reach the breach point and engage in a fierce gun battle 
6) Communication sweeps detects 6 infiltrators getting being in direct contact with their commanders out side .
7) Security personal engages the 3 Men terrorist command unit station out side Boundary wall on a near by small hill . 
8) The terrorist commander blows him self up 
9) Commander of air base ( who is directly leading the operation) gets a minor shrapnel wound on his arm after an R.P.G explodes near him . 
10) All terrorist killed , large amount of explosives and espionage equipment recovered 
11) A Tail of C-130 gets minor damage with Passing Ak 47 Bullets .
12) No other Aircraft was damaged or in danger . 
13) No Aircraft was directly attacked or in threat other then the spy plane of french origin stationed at PAF Masror .
14) All the terrorist were killed near the boundary wall . 
15) The Dead Security personal is thought to be the Sentry stationed near the boundary wall who was killed during the initial assault by the terrorists . 
16) Equipment used by Terrorists include laser ranger finders , Thermal Vision scopes , Improvised explosive devices , Clay-more Ambush land mines , R.P.Gs , Hand Grenades, Assault rifles and a Sniper Rifle (Dragnov SVD) , and High Quantity of Explosive .

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## Oldman1

BATMAN said:


> TTP made in Afghanistan in 2006.
> 
> Sheltered in Afghanistan. Weapons and boarding lodging organised by Rehman Malik and Asif Ali Zardari.
> 
> Legally protected by scum bad Ifitkhar choor.
> 
> Today, army need to decide how they want to proceed with traitor regime.



Who killed the leader of TTP and where? Oh right the U.S. and it was in Pakistan. I'm sorry to correct you.


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## Haseebullah

Cheetah786 said:


> So Irfan Bhai is PAF chief or Minister of defense going to resign this is a second attack on our bases not to mention others infiltrations on Pakistani soil and both of them been sleep behind the wheel.If no one is punished this will happen again and again


What penetration?
They were intercepted and killed.The RPG was fired from over the wall as a last ditch attempt to make the most out of their failed mission.


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## arslan_treen

Ok some updated info for Clearing up some confusions.

1) In total 9 terrorist Dead 
2) The base was on High red alert with a imminent attack threat 
3) The security was divided into three tiers , Boundary wall security was given to Regular Army Units , Internal second Tier was handled by Army Rapid Response units and last tier Hanger security was responsibility of Air Force security units (SSG /SSW Units were deployed only to respond in emergency situation) 
3) Attack happened when 6 terrorist (Dressed as security personal) jumped and cut 12 Ft high barbed outer boundary wall , 
4) Security personal placed on wall alert (Emergency command unit ) of the breach and engages the infiltrators
5) Rapid response units reach the breach point and engage in a fierce gun battle 
6) Communication sweeps detects 6 infiltrators getting being in direct contact with their commanders out side .
7) Security personal engages the 3 Men terrorist command unit station out side Boundary wall on a near by small hill . 
8) The terrorist commander blows him self up 
9) Commander of air base ( who is directly leading the operation) gets a minor shrapnel wound on his arm after an R.P.G explodes near him . 
10) All terrorist killed , large amount of explosives and espionage equipment recovered 
11) A Tail of C-130 gets minor damage with Passing Ak 47 Bullets .
12) No other Aircraft was damaged or in danger . 
13) No Aircraft was directly attacked or in threat other then the spy plane of french origin stationed at PAF Masror .
14) All the terrorist were killed near the boundary wall . 
15) The Shaheed Security personal is thought to be the Sentry stationed near the boundary wall who was killed during the initial assault by the terrorists . 
16) Equipment used by Terrorists include laser ranger finders , Thermal Vision scopes , Improvised explosive devices , Clay-more Ambush land mines , R.P.Gs , Hand Grenades, Assault rifles and a Sniper Rifle (Dragnov SVD) , and High Quantity of Explosive .

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## BATMAN

Cheetah786 said:


> So Irfan Bhai is PAF chief or Minister of defense going to resign this is a second attack on our bases not to mention others infiltrations on Pakistani soil and both of them been sleep behind the wheel.If no one is punished this will happen again and again



Why not Asif Ali Zardari resign?

Principally, protection from internal threats is job of interior ministry.

It is civilian regime who have access to society not army!

Can any one tell me the number of employees in interior ministry?


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## Cheetah786

> =Imran Khan;3315957]ever its happened ?



No but enough is enough Both should be fired so next one actually pays attention to his job.



> and in this case i am not in favor because attack was failed unlike Mehran .



Sorry Imran Bhai this is a compete failure they should publish their Pics offer big rewards and feed there remains to the pigs.


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## solkahn

please somebody tell me which AWACS was damaged ZDK03/ OR Swedish SAAB


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## Haseebullah

arslan_treen said:


> Ok some updated info for Clearing up some confusions.
> 
> 1) In total 9 terrorist Dead
> 2) The base was on High red alert with a imminent attack threat
> 3) The security was divided into three tiers , Boundary wall security was given to Regular Army Units , Internal second Tier was handled by Army Rapid Response units and last tier Hanger security was responsibility of Air Force security units (SSG /SSW Units were deployed only to respond in emergency situation)
> 3) Attack happened when 6 terrorist (Dressed as security personal) jumped and cut 12 Ft high barbed outer boundary wall ,
> 4) Security personal placed on wall alert (Emergency command unit ) of the breach and engages the infiltrators
> 5) Rapid response units reach the breach point and engage in a fierce gun battle
> 6) Communication sweeps detects 6 infiltrators getting being in direct contact with their commanders out side .
> 7) Security personal engages the 3 Men terrorist command unit station out side Boundary wall on a near by small hill .
> 8) The terrorist commander blows him self up
> 9) Commander of air base ( who is directly leading the operation) gets a minor shrapnel wound on his arm after an R.P.G explodes near him .
> 10) All terrorist killed , large amount of explosives and espionage equipment recovered
> 11) A Tail of C-130 gets minor damage with Passing Ak 47 Bullets .
> 12) No other Aircraft was damaged or in danger .
> 13) No Aircraft was directly attacked or in threat other then the spy plane of french origin stationed at PAF Masror .
> 14) All the terrorist were killed near the boundary wall .
> 15) The Dead Security personal is thought to be the Sentry stationed near the boundary wall who was killed during the initial assault by the terrorists .
> 16) Equipment used by Terrorists include laser ranger finders , Thermal Vision scopes , Improvised explosive devices , Clay-more Ambush land mines , R.P.Gs , Hand Grenades, Assault rifles and a Sniper Rifle (Dragnov SVD) , and High Quantity of Explosive .


I suggest you write the security guy as shaheed instead of dead!
So they never penetrated instead were intercepted and killed efficiently by the security!
You don't find that equipment from the Taliban ammo dump!
Thermal scopes and the whole shebang!i see something fishy!

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## Imran Khan

we can't change them after every attack bro . let them work .i am also waiting for pics .one thing you should appreciate dear at this time bastards were stopped on boundary and killed .


Cheetah786 said:


> No but enough is enough Both should be fired so next one actually pays attention to his job.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Imran Bhai this is a compete failure they should publish their Pics offer big rewards and feed there remains to the pigs.


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## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> Be it on Pakistani forum or something like TOI.....Indians have the gift of the gab.
> 
> As for the highlighted part, 75 pages should put any such notions to rest, however something like this usually brings out the drama queen in our Eastern neighbourhood. !!



Now that you have spewed out the out of context nonsense from your system, do you have anything to say on the subject ?

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## BATMAN

Oldman1 said:


> Who killed the leader of TTP and where? Oh right the U.S. and it was in Pakistan. I'm sorry to correct you.



You are the handler you decide what is in your better interest and when!

BTW... on an early occasion, when he was travelling to meet a conference of BLA, RAW you let him escape too!

Any way the ID of B.Mehsud was never confirmed. It is this H.Mehsud who is clearly identified.


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## Imran Khan

solkahn said:


> please somebody tell me which AWACS was damaged ZDK03/ OR Swedish SAAB



none of the awacs damage


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## Abingdonboy

Leviza said:


> yes you are missing alot,
> 
> these people attacked with night vision goggles, the person who got killed early in the attack was not from Fata or any other part of Pakistan (proved from finger prints).
> 
> they had satellite images of the base, and check post details etc, there are so many things involved which are not used by any rag-tag miltia or terror groups,
> 
> So there is 100% foreign hand involved.



NVGs can be bought online and are inexperience those days an the term NVG is incredibly vague it can mean a number of thins and tech much of which is readily avalbie on black markets around the world. And just because their fingerprints weren't registered doesn't mean they are not from Pakistan just that they are not recorded on the database, I find it hard to believe the GoP has 100% records of everyone in FATA or Paksitan linked with terror. And sat imagery? Do you mean Google Earth?? And anyway insider help could be more likely wet knowing layouts there is precedent aka Mehran.


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## Irfan Baloch

Cheetah786 said:


> So Irfan Bhai is PAF chief or Minister of defense going to resign this is a second attack on our bases not to mention others infiltrations on Pakistani soil and both of them been sleep behind the wheel.If no one is punished this will happen again and again



Lol?

this is Pakistan buddy

such things dont happen here


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## Hyperion

*BEST POST YET!*  

Now, lets enjoy a joint together 



arslan_treen said:


> Ok some updated info for Clearing up some confusions.
> 
> 1) In total 9 terrorist Dead
> 2) The base was on High red alert with a imminent attack threat
> 3) The security was divided into three tiers , Boundary wall security was given to Regular Army Units , Internal second Tier was handled by Army Rapid Response units and last tier Hanger security was responsibility of Air Force security units (SSG /SSW Units were deployed only to respond in emergency situation)
> 3) Attack happened when 6 terrorist (Dressed as security personal) jumped and cut 12 Ft high barbed outer boundary wall ,
> 4) Security personal placed on wall alert (Emergency command unit ) of the breach and engages the infiltrators
> 5) Rapid response units reach the breach point and engage in a fierce gun battle
> 6) Communication sweeps detects 6 infiltrators getting being in direct contact with their commanders out side .
> 7) Security personal engages the 3 Men terrorist command unit station out side Boundary wall on a near by small hill .
> 8) The terrorist commander blows him self up
> 9) Commander of air base ( who is directly leading the operation) gets a minor shrapnel wound on his arm after an R.P.G explodes near him .
> 10) All terrorist killed , large amount of explosives and espionage equipment recovered
> 11) A Tail of C-130 gets minor damage with Passing Ak 47 Bullets .
> 12) No other Aircraft was damaged or in danger .
> 13) No Aircraft was directly attacked or in threat other then the spy plane of french origin stationed at PAF Masror .
> 14) All the terrorist were killed near the boundary wall .
> 15) The Shaheed Security personal is thought to be the Sentry stationed near the boundary wall who was killed during the initial assault by the terrorists .
> 16) Equipment used by Terrorists include laser ranger finders , Thermal Vision scopes , Improvised explosive devices , Clay-more Ambush land mines , R.P.Gs , Hand Grenades, Assault rifles and a Sniper Rifle (Dragnov SVD) , and High Quantity of Explosive .


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## solkahn

Why the hell these channels send new Awacs damaged


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## Irfan Baloch

Oldman1 said:


> Who killed the leader of TTP and where? Oh right the U.S. and it was in Pakistan. I'm sorry to correct you.




thats right my dear

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## Oldman1

BATMAN said:


> You are the handler you decide what is in your better interest and when!
> 
> BTW... on an early occasion, when he was travelling to meet a conference of BLA, RAW you let him escape too!
> 
> Any way the ID of B.Mehsud was never confirmed. It is this H.Mehsud who is clearly identified.



B Mehsud was indeed killed. H. Mehsud is alive. If we are the handlers then the TTP wouldn't be working with us if we are killing them would we?

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## Foo_Fighter

Woha,

After going through all these posts (well most of them), I just realized a few observations:

1. It was a cowardly attack to destabilize/lower Pakistan's internal security. There is indeed foreign hand (TPP is foreign). I am not ruling out India might be involved indirectly but that's highly unlikely. America involvement is completely BS, they would not do it as they still believe Pakistan is strategically very important for them. 

2. My applause to the bravery shown by Pakistani soldiers for foiling this attack and successfully defend prime military hardware. RiP to the one who died defending this beautiful country, no doubt Pakistan have brave soldiers who will give everything for their motherland. However, internal security of Pakistan is still a question due to deep penetration. Also, I am glad to see soo many Indian brothers being caring and respecting the dead (apart from a couple who are dumb heads). Contrary to this I was very disappointing reading the 26/11 posts were majority Pakistani brothers friend were not so respectful for the Indian martyrs (albeit a few). 'Martyr' is over and above religion, that reflects Nationalism. 

3. All the Chinese engineers are safe and that's a very good sign. However, I doubt if killing Chinese engineers was ever in the agenda, they were probably in a mode let's get in and as soon as are suspicion of getting attacked start firing everywhere. 

4. I personally believe this is a wake up call for Pakistan as a Nation to open eyes, stand strong and re-plan their counter terrorism strategy which is very vague and not long term planned. This is important for eventual peace and prosperity of not only Pakistan but whole of South Asia. 

5. Don't believe in media BS (especially Indian), I don't know much about the Pak media, but I don't think they are that creative in BS'ing (infact in BS'ing our media is top of the world)

6. Stop blaming USA or India or Iserail to being with as it might mislead your population. Try to reverse the chain reaction which occurred and get to the core. Sometimes discoveries are different from assumptions. 

Personal Request: Why are Pakistani members racist is a question which still beats me. Being Hindu is not bad and baniya's are actually doing very well in India and are a peaceful community. Let's be respectful to each other on the forum atleast. And to Indian members like Miss... you are a fish which is making the whole pond dirty, I am sorry to Pakistani members for his/her stupid antics and replies.

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## Psyxjen

Gets one to wonder exactly how dangerous this is...

These...men... feel nothing. These men think nothing. They probably fear nothing. You have to consider, atleast for the soldiers' sake, about how can you fight *an enemy that wants death as his ultimate prize?* One that will blow himself up when you move in for the kill.

An excellent defensive operation led by the Air Force... BUT,

*These terrorists to their masters are EXPENDABLE.... OUR SOLDIERS ARE NOT*! You can extend the boundary wall 50km from the base if you want... more of these people will come, and when our men will engage them, they will blow up, extend it a 100km, they will blow up...

We need to clear our minds and focus ourselves on just how we *want to stand*... If with these inhuman savages, fine... If not, then our response must be as clear and as focused.... *"SIC SEMPER EVELLO MORTEM Terrorists!"* ... No sympathy, all terrorists in captivity must face a blindfold and a firing squad!


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## solkahn

I think the strategy should be to get *Armed Reaper like predators* from and use them on FAZALULLAH even before giving hints of doing operation in North waziristan that way TTP command center of instructions can be paralyzed


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## haviZsultan

arslan_treen said:


> Ok some updated info for Clearing up some confusions.
> 
> 1) In total 9 terrorist Dead
> 2) The base was on High red alert with a imminent attack threat
> 3) The security was divided into three tiers , Boundary wall security was given to Regular Army Units , Internal second Tier was handled by Army Rapid Response units and last tier Hanger security was responsibility of Air Force security units (SSG /SSW Units were deployed only to respond in emergency situation)
> 3) Attack happened when 6 terrorist (Dressed as security personal) jumped and cut 12 Ft high barbed outer boundary wall ,
> 4) Security personal placed on wall alert (Emergency command unit ) of the breach and engages the infiltrators
> 5) Rapid response units reach the breach point and engage in a fierce gun battle
> 6) Communication sweeps detects 6 infiltrators getting being in direct contact with their commanders out side .
> 7) Security personal engages the 3 Men terrorist command unit station out side Boundary wall on a near by small hill .
> 8) The terrorist commander blows him self up
> 9) Commander of air base ( who is directly leading the operation) gets a minor shrapnel wound on his arm after an R.P.G explodes near him .
> 10) All terrorist killed , large amount of explosives and espionage equipment recovered
> 11) A Tail of C-130 gets minor damage with Passing Ak 47 Bullets .
> 12) No other Aircraft was damaged or in danger .
> 13) No Aircraft was directly attacked or in threat other then the spy plane of french origin stationed at PAF Masror .
> 14) All the terrorist were killed near the boundary wall .
> 15) The Shaheed Security personal is thought to be the Sentry stationed near the boundary wall who was killed during the initial assault by the terrorists . *
> 16) Equipment used by Terrorists include laser ranger finders , Thermal Vision scopes , Improvised explosive devices , Clay-more Ambush land mines , R.P.Gs , Hand Grenades, Assault rifles and a Sniper Rifle (Dragnov SVD) , and High Quantity of Explosive .*



Doesn't this raise some questions? How did they get such advanced weaponry? If there is a foreign hand why does no one in the military ever indicate this.


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## prabhakar

TTP claims attack on Minhas base; nine militants killed


ATTOCK: Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan on Thursday claimed responsibility of the attack on Pakistan Air Force&#8217;s (PAF) Minhas airbase at Kamra, DawnNews reported.

Ehsanullah Ehsan, while speaking to Dawn.com from an undisclosed location, said &#8221; We have killed scores of security personnel.&#8221; He also claimed that they have damaged three JF-17 thunder air-crafts.

He said &#8220;We are proud of this operation. Our leadership had decided to attack Kamra base a long time ago&#8221;.

Ehsan said &#8220;nine of our men entered the base, four from one side and five from the other&#8230; They got together and launched the operation.&#8221;

He said that the attack was a revenge for the lives of Baitullah Mehsud and Osama Bin Laden.

The TTP spokesman said that &#8221; they will continue the attacks on the military installments until the establishment of Islamic rule in the country.&#8221;

He also confirmed the death of all nine TTP men who attacked the base.

During the early hours of Thursday, heavily armed militants stormed the PAF Minhas airbase sparking an intense gun battle lasting almost five hours.

The militants were said to be armed with automatic weapons, grenades and suicide vests. Intense exchange of fire between militants and security forces ensued after the attackers infiltrated the base, located in Attock, Punjab.

PAF officials confirmed the death of all nine eight attackers. One Pakistani soldier,Muhammad Asif, also lost his life in the attack, the officials added.

Six of the militants were killed by the security forces while three of them blew up themselves by the suicide bomb, DawnNews reported.

The base has been cleared. The operation has been completed,&#8221; a PAF spokesman said.

It was not immediately clear how the attackers managed to enter the sprawling base this time.

Although the attack took place at about 2 am, it is likely many of the soldiers on the base were awake for prayers or breakfast during the fasting month of Ramazan.

The gunmen disguised themselves in uniforms and got inside the facility will renew questions about security, particularly at a base which has been attacked twice before.

&#8220;Other miscreants then fired RPGs from outside the base boundary wall. As a result one PAF aircraft got damaged,&#8221; the air force said in a statement.

Gunfire, rocket and hand grenade explosions were heard during heavy clashes. One officer told AFP that he saw flames after waking up for his pre-dawn meal.

&#8220;There was an announcement by megaphone for soldiers not to move from the barracks and we were forbidden from going to the area where I saw the fire,&#8221; he said. Special forces and police were scrambled to the scene.

&#8220;The attackers were wearing security force uniforms but I can&#8217;t specify of which force uniform they were wearing,&#8221; he added.
At least seven of the attackers were wearing suicide vests.

Faheemullah Khan, a civilian who lives near the base, said he was at a mosque praying when he heard gunfire and explosions which he thought were military exercises.

&#8220;Then we came to a restaurant, which is next to the main entrance to the base, and heard a louder explosion,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;We saw six police vans rush in, and realised something was wrong.&#8221;

Several squadrons of fighters and surveillance planes are believed to be housed there.

&#8220;One body of a suicide bomber strapped with explosives has been found close to the impact area,&#8221; said an air force statement.

Base commander, Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who led the operation against the attackers, was wounded, but is in stable condition, said the spokesman.

One other security official also received injuries.

&#8220;Security personnel are now in the process of scanning the entire area to check for the presence of any other miscreant,&#8221; said the spokesman.

During the search operation, the officials disabled two landmines which were planted in the area.

Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt has ordered investigations of the incident.

Air Chief Marshal summoned a meeting today at Air headquarter Islamabad to analyse the situation after the attack and to mull over the initial intelligence reports. The meeting would be attended by top leadership of Pakistan Air Force.

Chief of Kamra aeronautical complex and Base Commander will brief the meeting.

Officials also said that one of aircraft at the base was damaged in the attack, which appeared to have been targeted at the PAF&#8217;s fighter jets parked at the Minhas base. Air Force officials confirmed that over 30 planes parked, including state-of-the-art JF-17 Thunder fighter jets.

Three to four of the militants wore military uniforms, officials said, adding that the attackers were between 19 to 33 years of age. It was also reported earlier that some of the militants wore suicide vests.

A joint search operation of security forces and police inside and outside the base was launched. PAC Hospital Kamra was also put on high alert following the attack.

The militants were reported to have attacked the base from Pind Salman Makhan village at around 2:30 am, sources said. When security officials at the check-post attempted to halt them, the militants opened fire. An intense gun battle lasting hours followed. Commandos of the Army and PAF were engaged in the operation against the attackers.

Earlier, Tehrik-iTaliban TTP spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan had declined to comment on the incident.

Kamra is located about 70 kms from the Pakistani capital Islamabad. The Minhas airbase is a heavily guarded compound with the Pakistan Air Force&#8217;s Kamra Aeronautical Complex in its vicinity, where Pakistan assembles and overhauls JF-17 Thunder fighter jets in collaboration with China. According to reports, at least 11 Chinese engineers were working at the Kamra Aeronautical Complex.

All Chinese and others foreign engineers and technicians involved in co-production of Chinese and Pakistan JF-17 Thunder aircraft project were shifted to a high profile secure location, sources told Dawn.com, adding that the engineers were not present near the attack area. Sources confirmed that at least 30 aircraft were on the base.

The government and military&#8217;s top leadership, including President Asif Ali Zardari, Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaque Pervez Kayani and Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf were notified of the attack, and the operation was being closely monitored by the army chief.

President Zardari strongly condemned the attack and expressed government&#8217;s resolve to eliminate terrorism.

In recent weeks, military intelligence had warned of the possibility of such an attack on military installations. However, there was no specific information about an attack being targeted at the Kamra base.

This is not the first time that Kamra has been the target of a militant attack. On Oct 23, 2009, a suicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra. Two security officers and six other people were killed in the attack.

Last year, six Taliban gunmen attacked a naval base in Pakistan&#8217;s biggest city Karachi to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden. At least 10 military personnel were killed and 20 wounded in the 16-hour assault.

&#8212;Zahir Shah Sherazi and Mubashir Zaidi contributed to this report.


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## solkahn

This will make sure no misadventure occurs here FROM TTP on any base any agency BRAIN WASHED pscyho to the Stone age

The ******** high commision 17 in no in AFGHANISTAN are NOT distributing tourist visas they are fuelling TTP and FAZALLULAH kill him you kill the BRAIN Command center to TTP


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## Cheetah786

Haseebullah said:


> What penetration?
> They were intercepted and killed.The RPG was fired from over the wall as a last ditch attempt to make the most out of their failed mission.



Yes you are right attacking military bases is a normal thing all over the world what failure.

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## laiqs@mi

Oldman1 said:


> Who killed the leader of TTP and where? Oh right the U.S. and it was in Pakistan. I'm sorry to correct you.



Its habit of US when person he is supporting start thinking by himself or looses his purpose they eliminate him. its not new
instead of baitullah who became ineffective they found fazlullah who is better shiet to support and to control.


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## Oldman1

haviZsultan said:


> Doesn't this raise some questions? How did they get such advanced weaponry? If there is a foreign hand why does no one in the military ever indicate this.



Hmm lets see. Attacks on NATO convoys. Attacks on Pakistani military and capture of equipment. Getting the picture...? IEDs, rpgs, a Dragunov, sounds like Russians are involved if we are going to pin point the origin of weapons now are we?


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## r3alist

Whats the American/NATO thinking behind this attack.

Change tact from Syria to Pakistan? Punishment for Pakistan about their anti interventionist stance? Punishment for supply routes?


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## Cheetah786

Oldman1 said:


> B Mehsud was indeed killed. H. Mehsud is alive. If we are the handlers then the TTP wouldn't be working with us if we are killing them would we?



Oldman1 Batman is a TTP and other Wahhabi terrorist sympathizer you are wasting your time arguing with him.

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## Oldman1

laiqs@mi said:


> Its habit of US when person he is supporting start thinking by himself or looses his purpose they eliminate him. its not new
> instead of baitullah who became ineffective they found fazlullah who is better shiet to support and to control.



Uh huh...a habit.


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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> Now that you have spewed out the out of context nonsense from your system, do you have anything to say on the subject ?


Then in essence your nonsensical banter was very much out of line, but then taste of one's own medicine can be bitter at times.
Anyways, while it lasts.

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## clmeta

Well said.


pak-marine said:


> OPERATE NORTH WAZIRISTAN >>> CURE THIS CANCEROUS DISEASE


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## karan.1970

prabhakar said:


> TTP claims attack on Minhas base; nine militants killed
> 
> 
> ATTOCK: Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan on Thursday claimed responsibility of the attack on Pakistan Air Force&#8217;s (PAF) Minhas airbase at Kamra, DawnNews reported.
> 
> Ehsanullah Ehsan, while speaking to Dawn.com from an undisclosed location, said &#8221; We have killed scores of security personnel.&#8221; He also claimed that they have damaged three JF-17 thunder air-crafts.
> 
> He said &#8220;We are proud of this operation. Our leadership had decided to attack Kamra base a long time ago&#8221;.
> 
> Ehsan said &#8220;nine of our men entered the base, four from one side and five from the other&#8230; They got together and launched the operation.&#8221;
> 
> He said that the attack was a revenge for the lives of Baitullah Mehsud and Osama Bin Laden.
> 
> The TTP spokesman said that &#8221; they will continue the attacks on the military installments until the establishment of Islamic rule in the country.&#8221;
> 
> He also confirmed the death of all nine TTP men who attacked the base.
> 
> During the early hours of Thursday, heavily armed militants stormed the PAF Minhas airbase sparking an intense gun battle lasting almost five hours.
> 
> The militants were said to be armed with automatic weapons, grenades and suicide vests. Intense exchange of fire between militants and security forces ensued after the attackers infiltrated the base, located in Attock, Punjab.
> 
> PAF officials confirmed the death of all nine eight attackers. One Pakistani soldier,Muhammad Asif, also lost his life in the attack, the officials added.
> 
> Six of the militants were killed by the security forces while three of them blew up themselves by the suicide bomb, DawnNews reported.
> 
> The base has been cleared. The operation has been completed,&#8221; a PAF spokesman said.
> 
> It was not immediately clear how the attackers managed to enter the sprawling base this time.
> 
> Although the attack took place at about 2 am, it is likely many of the soldiers on the base were awake for prayers or breakfast during the fasting month of Ramazan.
> 
> The gunmen disguised themselves in uniforms and got inside the facility will renew questions about security, particularly at a base which has been attacked twice before.
> 
> &#8220;Other miscreants then fired RPGs from outside the base boundary wall. As a result one PAF aircraft got damaged,&#8221; the air force said in a statement.
> 
> Gunfire, rocket and hand grenade explosions were heard during heavy clashes. One officer told AFP that he saw flames after waking up for his pre-dawn meal.
> 
> &#8220;There was an announcement by megaphone for soldiers not to move from the barracks and we were forbidden from going to the area where I saw the fire,&#8221; he said. Special forces and police were scrambled to the scene.
> 
> &#8220;The attackers were wearing security force uniforms but I can&#8217;t specify of which force uniform they were wearing,&#8221; he added.
> At least seven of the attackers were wearing suicide vests.
> 
> Faheemullah Khan, a civilian who lives near the base, said he was at a mosque praying when he heard gunfire and explosions which he thought were military exercises.
> 
> &#8220;Then we came to a restaurant, which is next to the main entrance to the base, and heard a louder explosion,&#8221; he said.
> 
> &#8220;We saw six police vans rush in, and realised something was wrong.&#8221;
> 
> Several squadrons of fighters and surveillance planes are believed to be housed there.
> 
> &#8220;One body of a suicide bomber strapped with explosives has been found close to the impact area,&#8221; said an air force statement.
> 
> Base commander, Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who led the operation against the attackers, was wounded, but is in stable condition, said the spokesman.
> 
> One other security official also received injuries.
> 
> &#8220;Security personnel are now in the process of scanning the entire area to check for the presence of any other miscreant,&#8221; said the spokesman.
> 
> During the search operation, the officials disabled two landmines which were planted in the area.
> 
> Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt has ordered investigations of the incident.
> 
> Air Chief Marshal summoned a meeting today at Air headquarter Islamabad to analyse the situation after the attack and to mull over the initial intelligence reports. The meeting would be attended by top leadership of Pakistan Air Force.
> 
> Chief of Kamra aeronautical complex and Base Commander will brief the meeting.
> 
> Officials also said that one of aircraft at the base was damaged in the attack, which appeared to have been targeted at the PAF&#8217;s fighter jets parked at the Minhas base. Air Force officials confirmed that over 30 planes parked, including state-of-the-art JF-17 Thunder fighter jets.
> 
> Three to four of the militants wore military uniforms, officials said, adding that the attackers were between 19 to 33 years of age. It was also reported earlier that some of the militants wore suicide vests.
> 
> A joint search operation of security forces and police inside and outside the base was launched. PAC Hospital Kamra was also put on high alert following the attack.
> 
> The militants were reported to have attacked the base from Pind Salman Makhan village at around 2:30 am, sources said. When security officials at the check-post attempted to halt them, the militants opened fire. An intense gun battle lasting hours followed. Commandos of the Army and PAF were engaged in the operation against the attackers.
> 
> Earlier, Tehrik-iTaliban TTP spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan had declined to comment on the incident.
> 
> Kamra is located about 70 kms from the Pakistani capital Islamabad. The Minhas airbase is a heavily guarded compound with the Pakistan Air Force&#8217;s Kamra Aeronautical Complex in its vicinity, where Pakistan assembles and overhauls JF-17 Thunder fighter jets in collaboration with China. According to reports, at least 11 Chinese engineers were working at the Kamra Aeronautical Complex.
> 
> All Chinese and others foreign engineers and technicians involved in co-production of Chinese and Pakistan JF-17 Thunder aircraft project were shifted to a high profile secure location, sources told Dawn.com, adding that the engineers were not present near the attack area. Sources confirmed that at least 30 aircraft were on the base.
> 
> The government and military&#8217;s top leadership, including President Asif Ali Zardari, Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaque Pervez Kayani and Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf were notified of the attack, and the operation was being closely monitored by the army chief.
> 
> President Zardari strongly condemned the attack and expressed government&#8217;s resolve to eliminate terrorism.
> 
> In recent weeks, military intelligence had warned of the possibility of such an attack on military installations. However, there was no specific information about an attack being targeted at the Kamra base.
> 
> This is not the first time that Kamra has been the target of a militant attack. On Oct 23, 2009, a suicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra. Two security officers and six other people were killed in the attack.
> 
> Last year, six Taliban gunmen attacked a naval base in Pakistan&#8217;s biggest city Karachi to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden. At least 10 military personnel were killed and 20 wounded in the 16-hour assault.
> 
> &#8212;Zahir Shah Sherazi and Mubashir Zaidi contributed to this report.



Link Please....


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## soul hacker

PAF release the pictures of militants kindly somebody upload them


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## Peaceful Civilian

One drone aircraft was effected.Anyway, Good job by army to kill all terrorist.. great work...
We should ban all religious activity during duty of army.
No roza/fast for army because it will decrease their respond time, Thanks that it was night time, so no hungry army. 
Unfortunately Last attack on Marriott happened successfully in Ramazan.

Just heard yesterday that Sufi Mohammad was freed from one case in court.


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## Oldman1

karan.1970 said:


> Link Please....



Taliban claim attack on Minhas base; nine militants killed | DAWN.COM

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## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> *Then in essence your nonsensical banter was very much out of line*,





Windjammer said:


> Ironically, i find the same with Indian members, when it comes to Insurgency in India thread. In contrast just check how many are keenly engaged in this thread..... such a shame when fresh incidents of violence in Assam are taking place.



Yeah! Sure...


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## Ark-Angel

Mercenary said:


> So you mean to tell me that USA hired these guys and trained them and send them to Pakistan to attack Pakistani bases to make it look like to the world that Pakistan is an unstable country and cannot be trusted to keep nuclear weapons safe.
> 
> And then USA along with India will use their special forces to penetrate Pakistan and steal 100 Nuclear Weapons and then bomb and blow up our Nuclear Reactor in Kahuta.
> 
> Do I have it right so far?



Pakistan will hire and train terrorist and then send them to Mumbai for attacks?


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## Cheetah786

> BATMAN;3315978]Why not Asif Ali Zardari resign?



Because its Not his job PAF chief is responsible for all PAf bases 


> Principally, protection from internal threats is job of interior ministry.



Then the Interior Minister should resign 



> It is civilian regime who have access to society not army!



Stop talking gibberish and make things as you Go its a PAF Base not civilian base

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## Foo_Fighter

Reuters news:

Militants attack major Pakistan air base; nine killed | Reuters


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## Imran Khan

soul hacker said:


> PAF release the pictures of militants kindly somebody upload them



were they released ?


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## Windjammer

soul hacker said:


> PAF release the pictures of militants kindly somebody upload them



There is nothing on PAF Website as yet..... I have tried to contact the Air Directorate, but i have been told he's in a meeting at HQ.


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## Cheetah786

Oldman1 said:


> B Mehsud was indeed killed. H. Mehsud is alive. If we are the handlers then the TTP wouldn't be working with us if we are killing them would we?



In response to This attack PAF should bomb Mehsud Tribe day and nigh .I am sure with in hours of few bombs and few Terrorist plus future terrorist dead these scum bags will sing.

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## Oldman1

Ark-Angel said:


> Pakistan will hire and train terrorist and then send them to Mumbai for attacks?



No Muslim will die for a kuffar nation like the U.S., but Pakistan which is an Islamic state, so yeah.


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## solkahn

I say again and again first take out indian RAW backed FAZALULLAH the rest is branches the problem root is RAW and indian 17 INDIAN concils in afghanistan neutralize all of them = TTP support ends WE WIN

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## Foo_Fighter

Ark-Angel said:


> Pakistan will hire and train terrorist and then send them to Mumbai for attacks?



I am sure you represent that little community in Pakistan which never needs peace. We also have a few like that in India. 

Best solution, lock both you up in a room and you fight your hearts out and kill each other and finally peace will prevail.

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## Ark-Angel

Mercenary said:


> I am confused.
> 
> Why would the TTP who are trained and armed by USA be attacking their masters convoys?



Those trucks were torched by owners themselves to get money from NATO.


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## Cheetah786

Oldman1 said:


> No Muslim will die for a kuffar nation like the U.S., but Pakistan which is an Islamic state, so yeah.



So you are saying there arent Any Muslims in American Defense forces?

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## soul hacker

Imran Khan said:


> were they released ?



yp i saw it on geo news at 4 clock bulletin


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## Foo_Fighter

solkahn said:


> I say again and again first* take out indian RAW backed FAZALULLAH the rest is branches the problem root is RAW and indian 17 INDIAN concils in afghanistan* neutralize all of them = TTP support ends WE WIN



Dear hate fill brother,, can I request you for source please for the bold part?


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## solkahn

No need to do operation in NW instead FCUK the AFHAN noristan and kunar WITH reaper like Drones from China we have the right to defend ourselves from invaders

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## Cheetah786

Ark-Angel said:


> Those trucks were torched by owners themselves to get money from NATO.



when are you people going to stop making excuses for terrorist wtf is going to take for you to wake the fcuk up.

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## Imran Khan

Cheetah786 said:


> In response to This attack PAF should bomb Mehsud Tribe day and nigh .I am sure with in hours of few bombs and few Terrorist plus future terrorist dead these scum bags will sing.




nazi germany wala ghusa paa jee

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## Oldman1

Ark-Angel said:


> Those trucks were torched by owners themselves to get money from NATO.



You are grasping straws now.


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## Srinivas

Psyxjen said:


> Gets one to wonder exactly how dangerous this is...
> 
> These...men... feel nothing. These men think nothing. They probably fear nothing. You have to consider, atleast for the soldiers' sake, about how can you fight *an enemy that wants death as his ultimate prize?* One that will blow himself up when you move in for the kill.
> 
> An excellent defensive operation led by the Air Force... BUT,
> 
> *These terrorists to their masters are EXPENDABLE.... OUR SOLDIERS ARE NOT*! You can extend the boundary wall 50km from the base if you want... more of these people will come, and when our men will engage them, they will blow up, extend it a 100km, they will blow up...
> 
> We need to clear our minds and focus ourselves on just how we *want to stand*... If with these inhuman savages, fine... If not, then our response must be as clear and as focused.... *"SIC SEMPER EVELLO MORTEM Terrorists!"* ... No sympathy, all terrorists in captivity must face a blindfold and a firing squad!



A very good post indeed buddy. I wish this type of thinking should exist in PA also, some times the policies we make against others back fire.


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## Oldman1

Cheetah786 said:


> So you are saying there arent Any Muslims in American Defense forces?



I'll rephrase that. No hardline Muslim terrorist would die for a Kuffar nation.

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## FFlame87

Dear Peaceful Civilian,

Don't be so narrow minded about your own religion. Our Prophet (peace be upon him) and all our sahabas (peace be upon them all) fought, worked, learned, lived and did everything a normal human does while fasting. Don't think if Science has advanced and now we know things like response time or whatever, we have to alter our religion. 

Science comes from religion but religion doesn't come from science. 

I personally work harder, better and smarter when I am fasting. Today's incident has nothing to do with response time. And I personally believe that other countries might be involved in luring the terrorists for these attacks. Pakistan is the Muslim Super Power, obviously none of the countries would like Pakistan to acquire high tech planes such as JF-17 and others. 

It is a sad day today but I pray to Allah that may He The Protector, The Forgiver and The Most Merciful protect Pakistan from her enemies and may Allah make Pakistan a symbol of pride for all the Muslim Ummah. Ameen.

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## Foo_Fighter

solkahn said:


> Back stabbing is the hiddden quality of INDIANs, now ,KHAD,RAW,CIA+MOSSAD you people have common enemy ISLAM and Muslims no reference required FOO_FIGHTER Ahh time waister INDIAN



With soo much love and respect from you, my eyes are full of tears. Want to say something else? It might help you in personal life maybe.


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## pk_baloch

i have been on this thread since last night

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

any information about which aircraft got damaged, 
can any body provide pics of those pigs who attacked the base


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## karan.1970

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> any information about which aircraft got damaged,
> can any body provide pics of those pigs who attacked the base



I hear TTP is claiming that they destroyed 3 JF-17 planes


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## Imran Khan

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> any information about which aircraft got damaged,
> can any body provide pics of those pigs who attacked the base



a C-130 tail was little damage with AK-47 shots and pics are on geo news i am looking on web but naah

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## pk_baloch

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> any information about which aircraft got damaged,
> can any body provide pics of those pigs who attacked the base


 u also take rest ,ur here since last night and giving informations .....


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## Surenas

Whats up with the banner? A bunch of terrorists managed to get pass the security checks of that airbase and have caused a lot of damage. Nothing to be proud of.


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## Irfan Baloch

karan.1970 said:


> I hear TTP is claiming that they destroyed 3 JF-17 planes



yea and they escaped in the 4th one

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## Foo_Fighter

karan.1970 said:


> I hear TTP is claiming that they destroyed 3 JF-17 planes



Absolute bullsugar. Please provide links.


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## Awesome

What needs to happen on a national level is a serious review of how we do security.

Which idiot has allowed population to grow in and around Kamra?

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

karan.1970 said:


> I hear TTP is claiming that they destroyed 3 JF-17 planes


jf-17 are safe , one aircraft damaged , which one is to be confirmed


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## Imran Khan

Irfan Baloch said:


> yea and they escaped in the 4th one




its hollywood maasala ?


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## karan.1970

Irfan Baloch said:


> yea and they escaped in the 4th one



Didnt know there was a 9 seater JF 17 in service 

btw, this is from DAWN.com..




> The Taliban spokesman also claimed the attackers had destroyed three JF-17 thunder aircraft as well.
> 
> PAF officials said that only one of aircraft at the base was damaged in the attack



Taliban claim attack on Minhas base; nine militants killed | DAWN.COM

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## Imran Khan

Surenas said:


> Whats up with the banner? A bunch of terrorists managed to get pass the security checks of that airbase and have caused a lot of damage. Nothing to be proud of.



SLEEP TIGHT TONIGHT......... PAF IS AWAKE

PROVED


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## Irfan Baloch

Asim Aquil said:


> What needs to happen on a national level is a serious review of how we do security.
> 
> Which idiot has allowed population to grow in and around Kamra?



lol?

same idiot who has allowed the merge of cities and towns with cantts. it is inevitable, as the unplanned population grows it gets nearer to bases and installations. even if you rule out the corruption and mismanagement, its inevitable, unless an entire base is moved out in the wilderness

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## S.M.R

Irfan Baloch said:


> yea and they escaped in the 4th one



This is what Indians are desperately want to hear. Expectations died. Lolz.


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## Dil Pakistan

Asim Aquil said:


> *What needs to happen on a national level is a serious review of how we do security.*Which idiot has allowed population to grow in and around Kamra?



I agree 100%.

Now is the time that whole nation of 180 million should wake up. Everyone needs to keep their eyes and ears open. Anyone suspicious and anyone looking odd must be reported to the security officials. Media needs to play a huge role here to educate the masses on how the nation can contribute.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Balochi said:


> u also take rest ,ur here since last night and giving informations .....


i am extremely concerned about the damage, 
yar Neend kahan aani hae ....
i am praying for minimum damage , cos news that at 1st instances i got were not good.
I am still concerned about saabs and the extent of damage because flames were of some aircraft ....


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## Irfan Baloch

karan.1970 said:


> Didnt know there was a 9 seater JF 17 in service
> 
> btw, this is from DAWN.com..


no those 9 terrorists are in goat heaven now. I am talking about the ones that no one counted. the guys who issued the press statement while onboard the JF-17.

I am not questioning your source of information. just challenging the claim. their claim ( max damage to airport) vs security claim (minimal etc). only time will tell what actually happened.

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## solkahn

I think guys like FOO_FIGHTER should be in the Indian FOREIGN office 
(MANIPULATIVE)


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

S.M.R said:


> This is what Indians are desperately want to hear. Expectations died. Lolz.



Certainly not! Terrorists having air power. Thats screwed up.


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## Mani2020

Last time i heard geo news was claiming that sab-2000 is the aircraft that got damaged 

*@Imran Khan*

Are you sure that the c-130 was the aircraft to sustain a damage ? and the damage was just the tail part?


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Dil Pakistan said:


> I agree 100%.
> 
> Now is the time that whole nation of 180 million should wake up. Everyone needs to keep their eyes and ears open. Anyone suspicious and anyone looking odd must be reported to the security officials. Media needs to play a huge role here to educate the masses on how the nation can contribute.


actually some ignorant and religiously blind people have great sympathy for these bloody Talibans who are using Islam to destroy and kill Muslims and Islamic countries.
they are also causing divide in our nation by calling all other facts non muslims , 
they attack shias , sunnis and everyone who is opposed to their ideology

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## Kompromat

Rumors of another attack , any news anyone ???


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## Peaceful Civilian

FFlame87 said:


> Dear Peaceful Civilian,
> 
> Don't be so narrow minded about your own religion. Our Prophet (peace be upon him) and all our sahabas (peace be upon them all) fought, worked, learned, lived and did everything a normal human does while fasting. Don't think if Science has advanced and now we know things like response time or whatever, we have to alter our religion.
> 
> Science comes from religion but religion doesn't come from science.
> 
> I personally work harder, better and smarter when I am fasting. Today's incident has nothing to do with response time. And I personally believe that other countries might be involved in luring the terrorists for these attacks. Pakistan is the Muslim Super Power, obviously none of the countries would like Pakistan to acquire high tech planes such as JF-17 and others.


Evolution of science have changed the whole scenario of war.
You can't fight with the bare hand or will sword Against flying jets or compare J17 with F22, Pakfa, J20.
Your words "I personally work harder, better and smarter when I am fasting" Your good determination
But reality is opposite.
We see in ramadan, people suffering headache everywhere, Fighting in roads, in traffic.
When fasting, it lowers your blood pressure, Low activities in office. Human can't meet even normal work requirement during fasting. 
This is what i am saying, ban of religious activities during duty.
You know, 40+ Sunni people , all leaders in a row killed in Karachi during Milad, because even Sunnis security Voluntary people were praying at this time. Who was responsible for loss of their leaders?
So, No prayer, No fast/roza at time of army duty.
remember, Allah can't help in these situation.


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## Imran Khan

Aeronaut said:


> Rumors of another attack , any news anyone ???



on kamra ? wow


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## Irfan Baloch

Aeronaut said:


> Rumors of another attack , any news anyone ???




thats sadly an attack on buses going via taliban infested Kohistan to Pakistani nothern areas
15 passengers marched out and executed by terrorists who normally do so on sectarian bases

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## karan.1970

Aeronaut said:


> Rumors of another attack , any news anyone ???



where are u hearing that?



Irfan Baloch said:


> thats sadly an attack on buses going via taliban infested Kohistan to Pakistani nothern areas
> 15 passengers marched out and executed by terrorists who normally do so on sectarian bases



http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...passenger-bus-attacked-northern-pakistan.html


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## Irfan Baloch

Hello

i dont disagree with your comments but lets *together *keep this discussion out of this thread
I say *together* because I responded to a question that relates to sectarian killing of Gilgit people.
the thread will go off topic 




Peaceful Civlian said:


> Evolution of science have changed the whole scenario of war.
> You can't fight with the bare hand or will sword Against flying jets or compare J17 with F22, Pakfa, J20.
> Your words "I personally work harder, better and smarter when I am fasting" Your good determination
> But reality is opposite.
> We see people suffering headache every. during time of fasting, Fighting in roads, in traffic.
> When fasting, it lowers your blood pressure, Low activities in office. Human can't meet even normal work requirement during fasting.
> This is what i am saying, ban of religious activities during duty.
> You know, 40+ Sunni people , all leaders in a row killed in Karachi, because even Sunnis security Voluntary people were praying at this time. Who was responsible for loss of their leaders?
> So, No prayer, No fast/roza at time of army duty.
> remember, Allah can't help in these situation.

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## Armstrong

Irfan Baloch said:


> thats sadly an attack on buses going via taliban infested Kohistan to Pakistani nothern areas
> 15 passengers marched out and executed by terrorists who normally do so on sectarian bases



*Irfan Bhai* how can these Terrorists attack and more so move around with such reckless abandonment knowing that we won't be able to stop them till the deed has been done ! And by that time they just melt away back into the populace or the mountains; how do you fight such an enemy ?

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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> Didnt know there was a 9 seater JF 17 in service
> 
> btw, this is from DAWN.com..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taliban claim attack on Minhas base; nine militants killed | DAWN.COM



I guess one of them must have taken time out to make one last phone call to his mother in the cave.


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## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> I guess one of them must have taken time out to make one last phone call to his mother in the cave.



Or probably the same insider (as claimed by some sources) who helped them in provided this info...

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## XYON

Windjammer said:


> Firstly, the entry to the base is from the main Rawalpindi - Peshawar GT Road, however some news report suggest that the culprits tried to enter from some adjacent village to the base. Sorry but i didn't pick up any news on any aircraft destroyed.
> Some weeks earlier, some media sources went all frenzy claiming a major fire has caused millions worth of damage to the MRF, where in fact, some dry grass far away from any facility, had caught fire due to the smouldering summer heat. Rather than making assumptions, Lets wait for the official statement. !!


 
If you did not 'hear' about it does not really mean it did not happen. Here is the statement of the Defense Minister Kamra attack: &#8216;Minimal damage, militant deaths clear proof of preparedness&#8217; &#8211; The Express Tribune and do a Google Map to see that the attackers entered through west of the base where there is a lone road leading from the village into the base. This is the point from where the attackers entered the base. Kindly avoid patronizing in the future if your own information base is limited!

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## Apóll&#333;n

*PAF releases images of Kamra attackers*

PAF releases images of Kamra attackers - geo.tv


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## itaskol

two attack today? is today 16th.08 a special day?


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## karan.1970

Armstrong said:


> *Irfan Bhai* how can these Terrorists attack and more so move around with such reckless abandonment knowing that we won't be able to stop them till the deed has been done ! And by that time they just melt away back into the populace or the mountains; how do you fight such an enemy ?



By attacking and killing the ideology and not just the people following that ideology.. I know its easier said than done, but thats the only way to do it really...

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## Irfan Baloch

Armstrong said:


> *Irfan Bhai* how can these Terrorists attack and more so move around with such reckless abandonment knowing that we won't be able to stop them till the deed has been done ! And by that time they just melt away back into the populace or the mountains; how do you fight such an enemy ?



Taliban have some sympathisers and support among the people. lets not kid ourselves
this is why taliban are so generous in disposing off their foot soldiers. because the resource pool is big


there are levels of support at different levels and intensity. apart from google map or some foreign entity help, there is always a chance that some disgruntled radicalised person would have given the inside information. ex Airforce personnel have been caught in the past that were found to be sympathisers or active members of terrorist outfits.

the assassination attempt on Gen Musharraf was masterminded by ex PAF guys. the mastermind and leader of GHQ attack was a military hospital guy and so on.



Rana4pak said:


> *nato helicopter has been destroy n seven soilder has died Game On*



please stay on topic

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## Imran Khan

Rana4pak said:


> *nato helicopter has been destroy n seven soilder has died Game On*



thats damn mess


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## Peregrine

In pictures they were showing Il-76 in PAF colour scheme, but couldn't make out if it was damaged or not.


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## Dil Pakistan

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> actually some ignorant and religiously blind people have great sympathy for these bloody Talibans who are using Islam to destroy and kill Muslims and Islamic countries.
> they are also causing divide in our nation by calling all other facts non muslims ,
> they attack shias , sunnis and everyone who is opposed to their ideology



You are right; but then it is the duty of the media to educate the public that the foreign intelligence agencies have infiltrated the militants and using them for their gains. The message needs to be repeated again and again on every TV channel, radio, and even mosques and social groups (face book etc). Gradually it will start to become clear that these militants are actually an operational wing of CIA, Mossad and RAW.


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## Armstrong

karan.1970 said:


> By attacking and killing the ideology and not just the people following that ideology.. I know its easier said than done, but thats the only way to do it really...





Irfan Baloch said:


> Taliban have some sympathisers and support among the people. lets not kid ourselves
> this is why taliban are so generous in disposing off their foot soldiers. because the resource pool is big
> 
> 
> there are levels of support at different levels and intensity. apart from google map or some foreign entity help, there is always a chance that some disgruntled radicalised person would have given the inside information. ex Airforce personnel have been caught in the past that were found to be sympathisers or active members of terrorist outfits.
> 
> the assassination attempt on Gen Musharraf was masterminded by ex PAF guys. the mastermind and leader of GHQ attack was a military hospital guy and so on.



Ideologies never die ! I think greater incentives provided to the local population of militant infested areas to entice them into sending their loved ones to schools and colleges would be the way to go but I just can't figure out how one does that and still continue fighting along the way ! How does one strike up a balance between the two to ensure that neither the locals are alienated nor the militants allowed to have an upper hand ?

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## Foo_Fighter

Peaceful Civlian said:


> Evolution of science have changed the whole scenario of war.
> You can't fight with the bare hand or will sword Against flying jets or compare J17 with F22, Pakfa, J20.
> Your words "I personally work harder, better and smarter when I am fasting" Your good determination
> But reality is opposite.
> We see in ramadan, people suffering headache everywhere, Fighting in roads, in traffic.
> When fasting, it lowers your blood pressure, Low activities in office. Human can't meet even normal work requirement during fasting.
> This is what i am saying, ban of religious activities during duty.
> You know, 40+ Sunni people , all leaders in a row killed in Karachi during Milad, because even Sunnis security Voluntary people were praying at this time. Who was responsible for loss of their leaders?
> So, No prayer, No fast/roza at time of army duty.
> remember, Allah can't help in these situation.



This is what I call excellent discussion... glad to read both of your posts. Keep them coming.

Very civil and knowledgeable debate on Positive Religion Determination and Progressive Evolution with Time.


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## Imran Khan

Peregrine said:


> In pictures they were showing Il-76 in PAF colour scheme, but couldn't make out if it was damaged or not.



look back pages that il-78 took-off in video .


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## imrankhan7250

Where is our response as a nation of 180 million? where is our response as a seventh leading military power in the world? Where is our response as a nuclear state? 
Listen fellow citizens, unless we as a nation make a systematic response against any untoward action, this will happen again and again.

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## Foo_Fighter

imrankhan7250 said:


> Where is our response as a nation of 180 million? where is our *response as a seventh leading military power in the world*? Where is our response as a nuclear state?
> Listen fellow citizens, unless we as a nation make a systematic response against any untoward action, this will happen again and again.



Neutral claims/reports/articles to verify this please (bold part). I am pretty curious.


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## airmarshal

airmarshal said:


> To target specific area of the base to me means one of the two things
> 
> 1. Inside info, which is highly unlikely
> 2. Satellite imagery info and guidance, which is highly likely
> 
> I stress point 2 because this TTP is not a rag tag terror group. it is being supported, trained and resourced from across the border. Their attacks help the western narrative on Pakistan.



Read my above post with the report on link below to know what i mean. even if the air base may not be remotely linked to nuclear program, it will be reported as such. This is how the perception is so masterfully manipulated. This is an art which we are not even aware of. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/17/w...-nuclear-ties-is-attacked.html?_r=1&ref=world

KARACHI, Pakistan  Suspected Islamist militants early on Thursday attacked a major Pakistani Air Force base where some of the countrys nuclear weapons are thought to be stored, setting off a heavy gun battle in which eight attackers and one security official were killed.

The attack on the Minhas air force base in Kamra, 25 miles northwest of the capital, Islamabad, was a stark reminder of the militants determination to attack Pakistans most sensitive installations despite ongoing military operations in their tribal hide-outs.

The sprawling air base, in the Attock district of Punjab, is believed to be one of the locations where elements of Pakistans nuclear stockpile, estimated to include at least 100 warheads, is stored. It is also home to a variety of warplanes, including American-built F-16s, and contains a factory that makes JF-17 fighter jets in conjunction with China.

The assault came amid mounting speculation that Pakistans military was preparing to carry out an operation in the militant stronghold of North Waziristan, in the tribal belt  a longstanding demand of the United States.

Security official said the gunmen, who were armed with automatic weapons and grenade launchers, and had explosives strapped to their bodies, attacked Minhas at about 2 a.m. A two-hour battle with soldiers stationed on the base resulted in damage to an aircraft hangar and one warplane stationed inside, the officials said.

An air force spokesman said the base commander, Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, was wounded in the shoulder during the fight.

Militants have attacked Kamra three times before  in 2007, when a suicide bomber hit a bus near the entrance to the Minhas air base; in 2008, when militants fired several rockets into the base; and in 2009, when a suicide bomber riding a bicycle blew himself up on an approach road.

The latest assault resembled a May 2011 assault on a military base in Karachi in which at least two American-built surveillance aircraft were destroyed and 10 people were killed.

The episode on Thursday was not entirely unexpected. On Aug. 10, the daily Express Tribune, quoting intelligence officials, reported that the Pakistani Taliban were planning to attack an air force base near Lahore before Id al-Fitr, the Islamic festival that marks the end of Ramadan and that is expected to fall around Monday this year.

Arif Rafiq, an adjunct scholar at the Middle East Institute in Washington, noted that the attack coincided with the speculation about a military operation in North Waziristan.

The Taliban are telling Pakistans leadership, If you hit us here, well hit you everywhere,  he said.


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## F.O.X

Pictures of Terrorists .


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## Irfan Baloch

Peregrine said:


> In pictures they were showing Il-76 in PAF colour scheme, but couldn't make out if it was damaged or not.



thats right

the PAF will definitely play down its loss.
the best we can hope is that the aeroplane is repairable and stay's operational. otherwise terrorists succeeded. 
its a psychological and misinformation war as well

e.g. they are claiming to destroy 3 JF-17s which is just impossible because they were engaged right away from the start and only once they got a chance to fire an RGP that exploded near a plane which some say is Saab AWACs and some give other names.

be sure about one thing. the truth will eventually come out. if there are any more losses they would come out soon enough. the media will stay on this story for months like a hawk. but if the damage to PAF aircrafts was only superficial then the story will die out.


if you ask my opinion, I would say that the attack has damaged the AWACs sufficient enough to bring its airworthiness and operation under question. And it will be painfully checked repaired and checked and checked and checked again to ensure its fixed. 
the attack itself is a big shock. dont forget the loss of a security personnel.
anyone on front line sentry duty is a first and likely target

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## XYON

imrankhan7250 said:


> Where is our response as a nation of 180 million? where is our response as a seventh leading military power in the world? Where is our response as a nuclear state?
> Listen fellow citizens, unless we as a nation make a systematic response against any untoward action, this will happen again and again.



I seriously think court martial proceedings should be initiated against the PAF officers responsible for this breach! Navy had court martialed the PNS Mehran Base Commander, PAF should do the same! No Exceptions or Compromises!

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## Tiger Awan

Irfan Baloch said:


> thats right
> 
> the PAF will definitely play down its loss.



But Media will do the opposite


I also believe we should wait and see. Any significant damage cant be kept away from Public


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## Foo_Fighter

laiqs@mi said:


> yar pehly kafi tension hai tu yeh apny takoslay bad main pury kar lena



No offence brother, but did I do something wrong? Am sorry if I did. Heard it first time so asked for source. 

I know the situation in my brother country is tense


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## W.11

Ping said:


> So which aircraft got destroyed? I hope it's not JF-17, that aircraft in PAF is beneficial to India. I hope F-16s or Saab AWACS got destroyed. Is not bothered whether Chinese AWACS is destroyed or not.



, in this way F-16s are also very beneficial to india


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## airmarshal

imrankhan7250 said:


> Where is our response as a nation of 180 million? where is our response as a seventh leading military power in the world? Where is our response as a nuclear state?
> Listen fellow citizens, unless we as a nation make a systematic response against any untoward action, this will happen again and again.



Pakistan is perhaps the only country in the world that lets anti-state groups thrive in its territory. It lets them have spokesmen. it lets them access to media. It allows them to make very powerful ownershipl claims and thier spokesmen are given coverage by our immature and stupid media. 

If there was another country, its armies would have moved against these terrorists decisively and would have carried out a brutal assault on their sanctuaries. Its political leadership would have taken people in confidence and the whole nation would have been behind this type of operation. 

But not Pakistan! This country has no political leadership but political mafia. Its people still support family based political mafias. Its military because it has no political backing, is tentative and half committed to this cause. 

Pakistan has only two options and they are not mutually exclusive. 

1. Get out of this war on terror. This war is only an excuse for US and the gang of countries to stay in this region. This will also take away the excuse for terrorists to attack Pakistani state and people.
2. Carry out a decisive, brutal and no holds barred action against TTP.

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## Hulk

Guys I see you going hyper over nukes getting stolen. Just chill nothing of that sort is happening. The nukes are not in assembled state and they security is not as week as you think. It is one thing to randomly spray bullets and another thing to steel the nukes. 

So take a chill pill and yes nytimes exaggerated it.


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## W.11

the attackers look afghani to me


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## Awesome

Irfan Baloch said:


> lol?
> 
> same idiot who has allowed the merge of cities and towns with cantts. it is inevitable, as the unplanned population grows it gets nearer to bases and installations. even if you rule out the corruption and mismanagement, its inevitable, unless an entire base is moved out in the wilderness



You know back in the British times all these Cantonements were out of the cities. If you compare US bases (the major ones) they are deep in the middle of nowhere.

All these places were once free from local population mess, so definitely some higher up planner(s) have dropped the ball. Half the security is in the fact to not let the enemy get close.

Once the enemy is close, even a Kamikaze assault would prove to be beneficial.

Look at GHQ, Bhuttay wala rairi laga ke khara hota hai saamne.

I think the bases are in the right/strategic places. The population areas should be emptied out and bought by the PAF. Form some sort of a no go area defined by a minimum radius which can be defended by the DSG.

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## Foo_Fighter

indianrabbit said:


> Guys I see you going hyper over nukes getting stolen. Just chill nothing of that sort is happening. The nukes are not in assembled state and they security is not as week as you think. It is one thing to randomly spray bullets and another thing to steel the nukes.
> 
> So take a chill pill and yes nytimes exaggerated it.



Are you high on something? Who is discussing nukes? It has been established very well that it was suspected but there were never any Nukes. Though I do agree that stealing Nukes is not a child's play and only someone as epic as Crime Master Go Go might be able to achieve that and he is Indian


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## Kompromat

Ping said:


> So which aircraft got destroyed? I hope it's not JF-17, that aircraft in PAF is beneficial to India. I hope F-16s or Saab AWACS got destroyed. Is not bothered whether Chinese AWACS is destroyed or not.



No Air crafts got destroyed. Sorry

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## Irfan Baloch

F.O.X said:


> Pictures of Terrorists .



well the coloured picture doesnt look a foreigner.


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## Apóll&#333;n

XYON said:


> WRONG PICS DUDE!!!!! These are attack pics of the PNS Base Mehran in Karachi and NOT PAF Base Minhas!!!!


 Thanks for correction.


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## Foo_Fighter

Ping said:


> So you are saying it is not? How so?



OMG, give me some of that whack s*it you having. JF17 is a potent defensive AC and I would have been happy if some were destroyed. That would be really bad for Pak AF. However, I am sad about the Shaeed's loss. 

Do you just want to start an LCA vs JF thread here? Yet again? Please stay on topic and don't humor others on our Tri Colours expense. Period!


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## W.11

Ping said:


> So you are saying it is not? How so?



how is F-16 not beneficial to india, reducing the population is very beneficial to india does it not


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## Patriot

THIS PIG ATTACKED THE BASE


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## airmarshal

Icarus said:


> I would, the court jumps at the first opportunity to grill the agencies, the military and the government. Shouldn't they be asked why in over a decade has not even a single man been sent to the gallows for terrorism? This bastard that was broken out of the Bannu jail tried to assassinate our president, he should have been hanged ages ago! Same goes for thousands of other terrorists waiting in jails to be broken out.



the court has no laws to deal with these type of terrorists. those countries that have such problem have special laws to dela with these a$$holes. But in Pakistan, where 'parliament is supreme' stuffed with time passers and opportunists, there are no such laws. 

Its the job of parliament to make such laws. Only then the courts will be able to deal with them. Criminal laws cant fight terrorists. I hope its clear enough.

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## Windjammer

Aeronaut said:


> No Air crafts got destroyed. Sorry



Dude, you need to pass around several of these.....since there are many hopefuls and wishful thinkers.

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## Patriot

Base Commander should be given medal.He fought on the front line ( was hit by sharpnels due to RPG hit near him ) he continued to fight the terrorist.I think this was very well done and handled very well by the air force security.They managed to avoid any asset damage.

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## Hyperion

Please don't slurry the Pigs. Pigs are gentle creatures, compared to these hogs!



Patriot said:


> THIS PIG ATTACKED THE BASE

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## Ping

Aeronaut said:


> No Air crafts got destroyed. Sorry


Wait for the dust to settle. TTP is claiming something and PAF is claiming something. The real damage will be revealed in a few days. probably a week.


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## SQ8

Ping said:


> So which aircraft got destroyed? I hope it's not JF-17, that aircraft in PAF is beneficial to India. I hope F-16s or Saab AWACS got destroyed. Is not bothered whether Chinese AWACS is destroyed or not.



Il-78 Midas.. which was damaged

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## Apóll&#333;n

Afghan... local?


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## Ping

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3316333 said:


> how is F-16 not beneficial to india, reducing the population is very beneficial to india does it not


That's a good point there unless PAF is only interested in fighting India's population like the LeT, other than the IAF.



> OMG, give me some of that whack s*it you having. JF17 is a potent defensive AC and I would have been happy if some were destroyed. That would be really bad for Pak AF. However, I am sad about the Shaeed's loss.
> 
> Do you just want to start an LCA vs JF thread here? Yet again? Please stay on topic and don't humor others on our Tri Colours expense. Period!


-face palm-
Please get lost and don't quote my posts again. Thank you!


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## Patriot

NO air craft was destroyed - Only one IL-78 had minor damage due to shrapnel from RPG HIT.


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## Hyperion

airmarshal said:


> the court has no laws to deal with these type of terrorists. those countries that have such problem have special laws to dela with these a$$holes. But in Pakistan, where 'parliament is supreme' stuffed with time passers and opportunists, there are no such laws.
> 
> Its the job of parliament to make such laws. Only then the courts will be able to deal with them. Criminal laws cant fight terrorists. I hope its clear enough.



You forgot the big IF's:

IF the parliament is allowed to make the necessary laws.
IF the CJ takes his head out of Islamists ***
IF the 'Terrorist' lawyers and 'Judges' can be purged from the system.

Don't forget we are fighting a war on the 'Judicial' front as well. The whole god damn judicial system has been infiltrated by terrorist sympathizers!

Therefore, don't ignore the FAT elephant in the room, the CJ and his cohorts!


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## swathi

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3316333 said:


> how is F-16 not beneficial to india, reducing the population is very beneficial to india does it not



I dont think so.


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## XYON

Windjammer said:


> Dude, you need to pass around several of these.....since there are many hopefuls and wishful thinkers.



So the Defense Minister Naveed Qamar is lying when he says that - only one aircraft was destroyed - (Kamra attack: Minimal damage, militant deaths clear proof of preparedness  The Express Tribune Careful with passing around the Chusni my friend, sometime one may have to start to suck on it oneself unknowingly!


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## Doctor09

airmarshal said:


> the court has no laws to deal with these type of terrorists. those countries that have such problem have special laws to dela with these a$$holes. But in Pakistan, where 'parliament is supreme' stuffed with time passers and opportunists, there are no such laws.
> 
> Its the job of parliament to make such laws. Only then the courts will be able to deal with them. Criminal laws cant fight terrorists. I hope its clear enough.


Very well said , i agree with you 100% .
As long as we have no anti terrorism laws these terrorists cant be punished and hanged for their crimes , Supreme courts asked the govt many times that if they want to handover terrorists to agencies or to investigate or arrest them then Govt should make such laws that help the agencies and security forces to tackle terrorism efficiently , but after a decade of WOT we still not able to make such laws . 
I think that in this case courts and Security agencies both cant be blamed but the law makers of this country should be blamed instead .


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## Patriot

XYON said:


> So the Defense Minister Naveen Qamar is lying when he says that - only one aircraft was destroyed - (Kamra attack: Minimal damage, militant deaths clear proof of preparedness  The Express Tribune Careful with passing around the Chusni my friend, sometime one may have to start to suck on it oneself unknowingly!


 Sir According to several senior members at pakdef.info only one air craft was damaged and it was minor damage. (Aircraft was not blown up like P3C Orions ).


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## Ping

> Il-78 Midas.. which was damaged



Oh thank you. Only came for this info.

I'm outta here.


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## Peregrine

Media is coming up with conflicting reports. On one hand they say some planes have been damaged and on other they say the terrorists couldn't breach intial security barriers.


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## XYON

Patriot said:


> Sir According to several senior members at pakdef.info only one air craft was damaged and it was minor damage. (Aircraft was not blown up like P3C Orions ).



My Brother! You are trying to tell me that Senior Members at PakDef know more than the Defense Minister of Pakistan coming out publicly with such a statement? The word used for the aircraft is 'destroyed' and not 'damaged'!! Some people in this thread are more concerned about saving face against Indians and other foreign nationals then dealing with the truth itself! Sad!

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## Windjammer

XYON said:


> So the Defense Minister Naveed Qamar is lying when he says that - only one aircraft was destroyed - (Kamra attack: &#8216;Minimal damage, militant deaths clear proof of preparedness&#8217; &#8211; The Express Tribune Careful with passing around the Chusni my friend, sometime one may have to start to suck on it oneself unknowingly!



Dude, this same source reported a grass fire in the same base as a $ Million tragedy, claiming that the Mirage Rebuild Factory has gone up in smoke...... talking of smoke, i am sure if a plane gets destroyed, we would have seen it blowing out of Kamra. !!

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## Patriot

XYON said:


> My Brother! You are trying to tell me that Senior Members at PakDef know more than the Defense Minister of Pakistan coming out publicly with such a statement? The word used for the aircraft is 'destroyed' and not 'damaged'!! Some people in this thread are more concerned about saving face against Indians and other foreign nationals then dealing with the truth itself! Sad!


 To be honest yes sir i trust them more then these politicians they are quoting air force officials lets not forget previous defense minister statement when he said that Pakistan Air Force cannot fly fighter jets above 50,000 feet and that PAF cannot intercept drones (Which we know is not true and he was debunked by Air Marshal Tanveer later on).

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## XYON

Windjammer said:


> Dude, this same source reported a grass fire in the same base as a $ Million tragedy, claiming that the Mirage Rebuild Factory has gone up in smoke...... talking of smoke, i am sure if a plane gets destroyed, we would have seen it blowing out of Kamra. !!



Bhai Jaan! statement is from the Defense Minister and NOT the Tribune itself! Unless you come up with an alternate credible/ verifiable source, I'll go with the statement at hand from the Defense Minister



Patriot said:


> To be honest yes sir i trust them more then these politicians they are quoting air force officials lets not forget previous defense minister statement when he said that Pakistan Air Force cannot fly fighter jets above 50,000 feet and that PAF cannot intercept drones (Which we know is not true and he was debunked by Air Marshal Tanveer later on).


 
Unless the official 'de-bunk' of his statement comes from AHQ. I will trust it fully & base my conversation on the information available at hand.

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## Awesome

The IL-78 was hit, lets await for more info on whether it was damaged or destroyed.

Losing an IL-78 would be a significant loss.



XYON said:


> Bhai Jaan! statement is from the Defense Minister and NOT the Tribune itself! Unless you come up with an alternate credible/ verifiable source, I'll go with the statement at hand from the Defense Minister
> 
> 
> 
> Unless the official 'de-bunk' of his statement comes from AHQ. I will trust it fully & base my conversation on the information available at hand.



Militants attack Pakistan nuclear air base - Telegraph



> The militants launched their attack from a wilderness area on the edge of base at 2am, with fighters outside firing rocket propelled grenades at the nearest check post while others scaled the boundary wall. They killed at least one soldier and got past three security check posts and within striking distance of aircraft hangers, before striking the IL-78 transport aircraft with an RPG. Air force commandos fought until around 7am to re-take the base.



Word destroyed is not used by the Telegraph. But direct hit on a spot that causes secondary explosions would deinitely mean a total loss, but a shrapnel hitting would be different. So yes there is confusion, lets hope for the best.


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## Kompromat

First major operation by SSW i guess ?


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## Areesh

XYON said:


> *My Brother! You are trying to tell me that Senior Members at PakDef know more than the Defense Minister of Pakistan coming out publicly with such a statement? *The word used for the aircraft is 'destroyed' and not 'damaged'!! Some people in this thread are more concerned about saving face against Indians and other foreign nationals then dealing with the truth itself! Sad!



Yes. They are a better source. I am amazed that despite being a senior member and you know so much about Pakistani military and even after that you consider defense minister to be a credible source. Seriously. 

Kia ho gaya bhai? Roza lag raha hai?

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## Tiger Awan

Asim Aquil said:


> You know back in the British times all these Cantonements were out of the cities. If you compare US bases (the major ones) they are deep in the middle of nowhere.
> 
> All these places were once free from local population mess, so definitely some higher up planner(s) have dropped the ball. Half the security is in the fact to not let the enemy get close.
> 
> Once the enemy is close, even a Kamikaze assault would prove to be beneficial.
> 
> Look at GHQ, Bhuttay wala rairi laga ke khara hota hai saamne.
> 
> I think the bases are in the right/strategic places. The population areas should be emptied out and bought by the PAF. Form some sort of a no go area defined by a minimum radius which can be defended by the DSG.



When I was about 8-10 year old I remember my Father using GHQ roads as a shortcut. Everyone in Pindi cantt use to do the same. Now most the roads on that side are blocked and people find it so difficult. Poor planning


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## S.A.

Aeronaut said:


> First major operation by SSW i guess ?



I think no. 

The precursor to the SSW, the Special Air warfare Wing fought in the 1971 Winter War. They were assigned to operate in Jammu and Kashmir and Dhaka, East-Pakistan. They were also kept standing by for airborne assault at different IAF bases. During 1980s, the SSW was assigned to operate alongside Army special forces in areas bordering Afghanistan. Recently, the SSW were dispatched with 50th Airborne Division of Pakistan Army and the Special Service Group (SSG). During the conflict, the SSW unit have participated in different helo borne and airborne assaults during recent SWAT and Waziristan operations.

Since the formation of SSW in 2004, they have been engaged in fighting against militants in Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province and FATA region.

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## Areesh

Too many pink members today. Kafi bharation nai laat khai hai aaj.


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## Free Soul

airmarshal said:


> the court has no laws to deal with these type of terrorists. those countries that have such problem have special laws to dela with these a$$holes. But in Pakistan, where 'parliament is supreme' stuffed with time passers and opportunists, there are no such laws.
> 
> Its the job of parliament to make such laws. Only then the courts will be able to deal with them. Criminal laws cant fight terrorists. I hope its clear enough.



Law or no Law...matters not... there is enough law on paper to deal with these morons....*THE ISSUE IS THAT THERE IS NO WILL.. *.. i would be the devil's advocate and say that government and agencies have brought hundreds of such moron religious bigots into court. but the top man there is settling scores with persons that he doesnt like...

as said before Samosa price is a high priority to these morons...

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## Foo_Fighter

Areesh said:


> Too many pink members today. Kafi bharation nai laat khai hai aaj.



Do you seriously find it funny to bring out topics like this under such tense situation? Is it by design or by default?


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## Yaduveer

damage to Il-78 midas would be great loss for PAF. (considering the fact that pakistan has only 4 of them)

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## pakistanitarzan

Apóll&#333;n;3316354 said:


> Afghan... local?


 
Is it just me or anyone else think that this dudes soul is being taken away in the most painfull way ever?


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## Windjammer

> *PAF officials said that only one of aircraft at the base was damaged in the attack.*
> 
> Several squadrons of fighters and surveillance planes are believed to be housed at Kamras Minhas base. Officials also confirmed that over 30 planes were parked at the base, including state-of-the-art JF-17 Thunder fighter jets.



Taliban claim attack on Minhas base; nine militants killed | DAWN.COM


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## Irfan Baloch

airmarshal said:


> Criminal laws cant fight terrorists. I hope its clear enough.



thats best explanation
and makes sense

I conquer



Free Soul said:


> Law or no Law...matters nothing... there is enough law on paper to deal with these morons....*THE ISSUE IS THAT THERE IS NO WILL.. *.



I agree with you too

damn it 
I cant think for my self and cant make up my mind (Peter Griffen during Dinner with Rush Limbaugh)


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## Areesh

Foo_Fighter said:


> Do you seriously find it funny to bring out topics like this under such tense situation? Is it by design or by default?



Just saying looking at the pink names at the bottom of the screen.



Windjammer said:


> Taliban claim attack on Minhas base; nine militants killed | DAWN.COM



But which aircraft was this one? IL-78 or C-130.



Jarha said:


> damage to Il-78 midas would be great loss for PAF. (considering the fact that pakistan has only 4 of them)



If it is only damage and that too by an RPG then most probably it would be back in air within months if not weeks.


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## Peregrine

Asim Aquil said:


> The IL-78 was hit, lets await for more info on whether it was damaged or destroyed.
> 
> Losing an IL-78 would be a significant loss.
> 
> 
> 
> Militants attack Pakistan nuclear air base - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> Word destroyed is not used by the Telegraph. But direct hit on a spot that causes secondary explosions would deinitely mean a total loss, but a shrapnel hitting would be different. So yes there is confusion, lets hope for the best.


Saw one in the footage, it wasn't destroyed, may be damaged?



Asim Aquil said:


> The IL-78 was hit, lets await for more info on whether it was damaged or destroyed.
> 
> Losing an IL-78 would be a significant loss.
> 
> 
> 
> Militants attack Pakistan nuclear air base - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> Word destroyed is not used by the Telegraph. But direct hit on a spot that causes secondary explosions would deinitely mean a total loss, but a shrapnel hitting would be different. So yes there is confusion, lets hope for the best.


Saw one in the footage, it wasn't destroyed, may be damaged?


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## Tiger Awan

Peregrine said:


> Saw one in the footage, it wasn't destroyed, may be damaged?



Some member here saying it was in Air


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## Windjammer

Areesh said:


> Just saying looking at the pink names at the bottom of the screen.
> 
> 
> 
> But which aircraft was this one? IL-78 or C-130.
> 
> 
> 
> If it is only damage and that too by an RPG then most probably it would be back in air within months if not weeks.



Yaar, i have been trying to find out, the A/D is not answering his mobile, even a burst landing gear would be considered as damaged. Geo showed footage of at least one IL-78 taking off.


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## Areesh

Peregrine said:


> Saw one in the footage, it wasn't destroyed, may be damaged?



Here is pic of IL-78 based at Kamra. Might be minor damage from RPG sharpnel. According to Express news this aircraft was attacked.


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## imrankhan7250

Look at the response against 9/11 by the super power. Look at the response by our neighbour against mumbai attacks, after these responses can any one think about acting again. And look at us we did not respond to the GhQ, Mehran, Abbotabad, Salala, Zarrar company, and many many more. In the absence of appropriate response, this will bound to happen again and again. Kyani Saheb, dont react, and wait for more.

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## soul hacker

Jarha said:


> damage to Il-78 midas would be great loss for PAF. (considering the fact that pakistan has only 4 of them)



to india ke pas konsa pura squardon hai


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## Areesh

Windjammer said:


> Yaar, i have been trying to find out, the A/D is not answering his mobile, even a burst landing gear would be considered as damaged. Geo showed footage of at least one IL-78 taking off.



Well I am very much sure that whichever aircraft it is the damage is minor. No AC is destroyed today at Kamra.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

saab 2000 damaged , 
RPG hit , damage is not severe ...
one rudder is badly damaged but hopefully it will be repaired in a month or so


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## Irfan Baloch

pakistanitarzan said:


> Is it just me or anyone else think that this dudes soul is being taken away in the most painfull way ever?



on the contrary he seems to be enjoying himself while his soul goes to goat heaven. look at his dreamy eyes.


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## Hyperion

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> saab 2000 damaged ,
> RPG hit , damage is not severe ...
> one rudder is badly damaged but hopefully it will be repaired in a month or so


The rudder, or any other part of the aircraft can be repaired / replaced, ONLY IF there was no damage to the array on top!


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## qaisar52

Free Soul said:


> Law or no Law...matters nothing... there is enough law on paper to deal with these morons....*THE ISSUE IS THAT THERE IS NO WILL.. *.. i would be the devil's advocate and say that government and agencies have brought hundreds of such moron religious bigots into court. but the top man there is settling scores with persons that he doesnt like...
> 
> as said before Samosa price is a high priority to these morons...


Both of you are Right 100%. I was watching the Najam Sheti Program of 14 august and there he mentioned that ISI ex chief Pasha told when leaving that they captured 900 Terrorists&#8217; and our Great Chief Justice had given freedom to them (Why Not,he is the relative of Ishaq one of the biggest Terrorist of Laskir e Jahngvi and Shipahey Sahaba from Bahawalpur). Please qute my words, when this Chief justice Choudary will resign in 2013, He will be brought to justice by someone putting bullet in his head. Or before 2013.

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## Mughal-Prince

imrankhan7250 said:


> Look at the response against 9/11 by the super power. Look at the response by our neighbour against mumbai attacks, after these responses can any one think about acting again. And look at us we did not respond to the GhQ, Mehran, Abbotabad, Salala, Zarrar company, and many many more. In the absence of appropriate response, this will bound to happen again and again. Kyani Saheb, dont react, and wait for more.



Now I have doubts about our Chief ... I have heard in a party about his brother is corrupt but I didn't confirmed it with any source ... but in case of Kiyani he was chief officer of my uncle so my family knows him personally he himself a gentleman but the other way around the story is different but I am not confirmed ...


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## XYON

Areesh said:


> Yes. They are a better source. I am amazed that despite being a senior member and you know so much about Pakistani military and even after that you consider defense minister to be a credible source. Seriously.
> 
> Kia ho gaya bhai? Roza lag raha hai?



Yes I consider the Defence Minister's statement credible for this event, because it coincides with the ground information that I have. And since I am in no place to issue statements, so there! One should have the 'brains' to 'assess' the situation on a case-by-case basis and not have a blanket belief on one source. I would be the first to disagree here if there were loopholes in the statement from the Defense Minister that is generally vetted by the concerned Air Commodore level aides working in the Ministry itself!! So Beta G! You still have a lot to learn before you reach the state of nirvana for these matters!


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## Areesh

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> saab 2000 damaged ,
> RPG hit , damage is not severe ...
> one rudder is badly damaged but hopefully it will be repaired in a month or so


 


Hyperion said:


> The rudder, or any other part of the aircraft can be repaired / replaced, ONLY IF there was no damage to the array on top!



According to pakistani and foreign media IL-78 got a hit. Is there any news source specifically saying Saab 2000 got a hit.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Hyperion said:


> The rudder, or any other part of the aircraft can be repaired / replaced, ONLY IF there was no damage to the array on top!


my source say rudder , one RPG fell on hanger that saved it , damaged rudder was seen along with some bullet holes ...
my source wasn't ready to provide full information but one thing he told that a RPG fell on the hanger where saab 2000 were parked ..
there were c-130 , il-76 and saab 2000 there ...
but attack was pointed towards saabs


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## Hyperion

Irfan Baloch said:


> on the contrary he seems to be enjoying himself while his soul goes to goat heaven. look at his dreamy eyes.



You guys are all _incorrect_! He has the distinct look of disbelief on his face, as he's being welcomed by 72 dudes with huge ****

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## Areesh

XYON said:


> Yes I consider the Defence Minister's statement credible for this event, because it coincides with the ground information that I have.



And what "ground information" you have my dear? Do tell us that which aircraft was "destroyed" from your ground sources? Kafi confusion ho rahi hai.



> So Beta G! You still have a lot to learn before you reach the state of nirvana for these matters!



I am trying to learn from you. Let's see if you can teach us something precise about this event.


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## Peregrine

Hyperion said:


> The rudder, or any other part of the aircraft can be repaired / replaced, ONLY IF there was no damage to the array on top!


Sorry for bringing that up, but if array is damaged then that would be an Eyerie AWAC where as Saab2000 may not be an AWAC, right?


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## airmarshal

Hyperion said:


> You forgot the big IF's:
> 
> IF the parliament is allowed to make the necessary laws.
> IF the CJ takes his head out of Islamists ***
> IF the 'Terrorist' lawyers and 'Judges' can be purged from the system.
> 
> Don't forget we are fighting a war on the 'Judicial' front as well. The whole god damn judicial system has been infiltrated by terrorist sympathizers!
> 
> Therefore, don't ignore the FAT elephant in the room, the CJ and his cohorts!



1.Who is STOPPING this stupid parliament to makes laws? If its members are given so much freedom to do as much corruption as they doing it now, why are they not free enough to make laws?
2.What has CJ got to do with these 'islamists'. If you are muslim why do you call these terrorists 'islamists'? Islamist term is used interchangeably with terrorist. Are all muslims terrorists? 
3.Who are the 'terrorist' lawyers or if you can name a few 'terrorist' judges? 

There must be 'Dislike' link under each post too!

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## Mani2020

Patriot said:


> Sir According to several senior members at pakdef.info only one air craft was damaged and it was minor damage. (Aircraft was not blown up like P3C Orions ).



No Patriot you are wrong on that... i myself have been there they themselves are not too sure about it ...the article from which it was revealed that il-78 is the one that suffered was written by a foreign author and like other news it was or can be just a rumor..,also the article has many glitches ...if you go back to the previous page on that site you will find many claiming it to be saab-2000 AWAC

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## airmarshal

Free Soul said:


> Law or no Law...matters nothing... there is enough law on paper to deal with these morons....*THE ISSUE IS THAT THERE IS NO WILL.. *.. i would be the devil's advocate and say that government and agencies have brought hundreds of such moron religious bigots into court. but the top man there is settling scores with persons that he doesnt like...
> 
> as said before Samosa price is a high priority to these morons...



You know what! The best thing is to just kill them. Thats probably the easiest thing to do.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

princeiftikharmirza said:


> Now I have doubts about our Chief ... I have heard in a party about his brother is corrupt but I didn't confirmed it with any source ... but in case of Kiyani he was chief officer of my uncle so my family knows him personally he himself a gentleman but the other way around the story is different but I am not confirmed ...



this discussion is irrelevant and by the way
Kyani has already clarified that his duty and his work as COAS has nothing to do with his civilian brother. so it is only fair that Kyani is judged on his personal capacity and his position as COAS not on the bases of who was his neighbour is or what his brother or cousins have been doing


----------



## Hyperion

Peregrine said:


> Sorry for bringing that up, but if array is damaged then than would be an Eyerie where as Saab2000 may not be an AWAC, right?



Buddy SAAB2000 is a standard turboprop platform, nothing special about it!

Eyrie (array on top) and the integrated sub-systems are the main thing. As long as the array and the subsystems are secure, no problem!


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## Irfan Baloch

airmarshal said:


> You know what! The best thing is to just kill them. Thats probably the easiest thing to do.



do you know Aunty Asma Jhangeer?

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## Foo_Fighter

Areesh said:


> Just saying looking at the pink names at the bottom of the screen.



Ok fair enough. I just did not find the bold part (below) funny or relevant in your previous post. Meh, forget it.

"Too many pink members today.* Kafi bharation nai laat khai hai aaj*."


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## F.O.X

Apóll&#333;n;3316354 said:


> Afghan... local?



To me it looks like Regret in His eyes , as if he was thinking Did i Do the Right thing , or was it even worth it,

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## Mani2020

According to this video all aircrafts are safe, just one slightly damaged 

Terrorists Attack on PAF Base (Minhas) Kamra Successfully Repulsed by Security Forces (16.8.12) - YouTube

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## Cheetah786

pakistanitarzan said:


> Is it just me or anyone else think that this dudes soul is being taken away in the most painfull way ever?



Feed his remains to the PIGS and let him stay till the end as Pig ****. Remaining Afghans must be Kicked out at once they like it or not Mine the border.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

F.O.X said:


> To me it looks like Regret in His eyes , as if he was thinking Did i Do the Right thing , or was it even worth it,


they are brainwashed dogs .......... ****** dogs ..
burn in hell , LAANAT ho ALLAH PAK ki in per and in ko train karne waloon per

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## Hyperion

airmarshal said:


> 1.Who is STOPPING this stupid parliament to makes laws? If its members are given so much freedom to do as much corruption as they doing it now, why are they not free enough to make laws?
> 2.What has CJ got to do with these 'islamists'. If you are muslim why do you call these terrorists 'islamists'? Islamist term is used interchangeably with terrorist. Are all muslims terrorists?
> 3.Who are the 'terrorist' lawyers or if you can name a few 'terrorist' judges?
> 
> There must be 'Dislike' link under each post too!



Oh really? 

Digest the latest news today. Make a judgement on

1. Who is bullying who?
2. Who gets to make the laws?

Learn the _fine line_ between the legislative and executive and then come argue.

Source: Judiciary&#8217;s position parallel to that of executive, legislature: CJ | DAWN.COM

BTW, this is today's news!



> SLAMABAD: Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry on Thursday said that interpretation of laws was the judiciary&#8217;s calling whereas implementation of those laws was the executive&#8217;s responsibility, DawnNews reported.
> 
> Addressing a full court reference on the occasion of Justice Shakirullah Jan&#8217;s retirement, the chief justice said that the judiciary was aware of the fundamental rights of the people and the authorities and rights of state institutions.
> 
> *He* *said that the judiciary held a position parallel to that of the legislature and of the executive.*
> 
> The chief justice rejected the perception that the judiciary was playing the role of the opposition, adding that, all state institutions should respect the judiciary&#8217;s independence.
> 
> He added that the existence of and respect for an independent judiciary was inevitable for the state.



Now, now dear airmarshal: By your enlightened take on everything Pakistan, we should all get law degrees and practice politics from the court rooms? Cool!


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## airmarshal

Doctor09 said:


> Very well said , i agree with you 100% .
> As long as we have no anti terrorism laws these terrorists cant be punished and hanged for their crimes , Supreme courts asked the govt many times that if they want to handover terrorists to agencies or to investigate or arrest them then Govt should make such laws that help the agencies and security forces to tackle terrorism efficiently , but after a decade of WOT we still not able to make such laws .
> I think that in this case courts and Security agencies both cant be blamed but the law makers of this country should be blamed instead .



This is the biggest hypocrisy. 

We (political and military leadership) want to be feted and praised for being the frontline state in this fake 'global war on terrorism'. We beseech, cry and moan in front of rich nations like beggars that our sacrifices are not recognized, as if they were needed in the first place. 

We pump out our chest wearing this medallion of 'frontline state' but the biggest irony is we have no laws to deal with this problem. Britain has stringent laws to arrest, interrogate and gather intelligence on terrorists. Those laws completely contradict their own laws on prisoner rights, privacy of its citizen and their freedom of speech. These laws were enacted after London bombings. Just ONE attack. 

My question to out political mafia is - how many attacks will catch their attention that this needs to be dealt with at state level?

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## Foo_Fighter

Cheetah786 said:


> Feed his remains to the PIGS.





No please don't I like to have me pork vegetarian (means this terrorist does not even deserve that). 

Jokes apart: Can anyone confirm if there has been any high level meeting or planned?



genmirajborgza786 said:


> *TROLL ALERT*



Don't worry, he has been STFU'ed already!!!


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## Areesh

airmarshal said:


> This is the biggest hypocrisy.
> 
> We (political and military leadership) want to be feted and praised for being the frontline state in this fake 'global war on terrorism'. We beseech, cry and moan in front of rich nations like beggars that our sacrifices are not recognized, as if they were needed in the first place.
> 
> We pump out our chest wearing this medallion of 'frontline state' but the biggest irony is we have no laws to deal with this problem. Britain has stringent laws to arrest, interrogate and gather intelligence on terrorists. Those laws completely contradict their own laws on prisoner rights, privacy of its citizen and their freedom of speech. These laws were enacted after London bombings. Just ONE attack.
> 
> My question to out political mafia is - how many attacks will catch their attention that this needs to be dealt with at state level?



Whatever you have said till now is true. But then again looking at the kind of lanatis we have in the form of politicians do you think even ten more of such incidents would catch their attention?

Never. Nothing is going to happen.


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## Patriot

airmarshal said:


> This is the biggest hypocrisy.
> 
> We (political and military leadership) want to be feted and praised for being the frontline state in this fake 'global war on terrorism'. We beseech, cry and moan in front of rich nations like beggars that our sacrifices are not recognized, as if they were needed in the first place.
> 
> We pump out our chest wearing this medallion of 'frontline state' but the biggest irony is we have no laws to deal with this problem. Britain has stringent laws to arrest, interrogate and gather intelligence on terrorists. Those laws completely contradict their own laws on prisoner rights, privacy of its citizen and their freedom of speech. These laws were enacted after London bombings. Just ONE attack.
> 
> My question to out political mafia is - how many attacks will catch their attention that this needs to be dealt with at state level?


Honestly Security in Pakistan is a big joke...Our people are stupid too (Talking about common people here who think we are implementing these security measures due to Washington's Influence)


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## airmarshal

Areesh said:


> Whatever you have said till now is true. But then again looking at the kind of lanatis we have in the form of politicians do you think even ten more of such incidents would catch their attention?
> 
> Never. Nothing is going to happen.



what hurts more is that there are still sympathizers of these laantis on an educated forum like this one.

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## Cheetah786

Hyperion said:


> You guys are all _incorrect_! He has the distinct look of disbelief on his face, as he's being welcomed by 72 dudes with huge ****



Yeah but being an afghan isn't that what he would prefer

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## Foo_Fighter

Patriot said:


> Honestly Security in Pakistan is a big joke...Our people are stupid too (Talking about common people here who think we are implementing these security measures due to Washington's Influence)



Interesting comment. Can you please elaborate on "people here who think we are implementing these security measures due to Washington's Influence" would be interesting to know.


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## Areesh

airmarshal said:


> what hurts more is that there are still sympathizers of these laantis on an educated forum like this one.



That most unfortunate on part of Pakistan. Let me tell you what would be the reaction of Pakistani political parties after this incident.

1 PPP wold be happy and take the credit that due to their preparedness damage was very minimum as compared to Mehran base. 
2 PML(N) would put whole blame on military
3 MQM chief Altaf bhai would show his concern on the whole situation from the his comfort zone in London and would demand a useless round table conference.
4 ANP would say that they always opposed Afghan jihad but Pakistani establishment didn't listen to them. Now look what is happening.

An then after a few days our politicians would again engage themselves in things of more importance like coming elections.


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## Safriz

Pakistan needs to get rid of Afghan refugees ASAP..
where ever they are..,,,I have a suspicion they are involved in most acts of terrorism...


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## Mani2020

the problem is the guys that are hired for such terrorist activities are either local or foreigners with some resemblance to our own people.. For former to detect its very hard as they look like us,talk like us and pretend to be like us... They are somewhere around us but we fail to recognize their true faces and intentions ,thats where we get trapped 

Imagine the guys who attacked the base were living in the near by village but were not picked due their resemblence with the locals...how can PAF guys know that they are terrorists ...Its the duty of police and locals ....

But as one cant expect anything from police and as far as local people are concerned they are either taliban sympathizer or just il-literate to know anything about them or report them

So throwing every blame on PAF and army is not rational... Civilians and police is as responsible as anyone else

You cant blame army and airforce for every x,y or z...There purpose is to control the borders and defend against external enemy and are not responsible for internal security measures of cities ...thats the work of police and paramilitary forces but sadly in our country army and airforce has to do everything.... these corrupt police bastards get away with things easily


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## Safriz




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## Hyperion

Cheetah786 said:


> Yeah but being an afghan isn't that what he would prefer


Nahin yaar, I have my doubts. The guy looks nothing like an Afghan or Pushtoon. Look at his facial characteristics VERY VERY carefully. No one is willing to listen to the P***abi Taliban here!

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## Safriz

Anybody knows which aircraft was damaged?


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## Mani2020

Someone should ask IG punjab how the heck these terrorists entered Punjab and how the heck they were not picked on check posts...How the hell they sniffed in with so much of armour without being caught

And that guy Rana sanaullah should be slapped on the face

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## Peregrine

By any chance could that be a Kj-2000 since in media they keep on saying it was an AWAC and in pictures they show IL-78, may be PAF was keeping this posession under wraps? This is just a WILD WILD guess........


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## Bhai Zakir

*Militants storm Pakistan air base; 10 killed*


By Shaiq Hussain, Updated: Thursday, August 16, 4:51 PM


*ISLAMABAD, Pakistan Armed militants stormed a major Pakistani air force base* early Thursday, sparking an hours-long firefight with security forces and raising concerns about the militarys ability to subdue insurgents.

Nine militants and one Pakistani military official were killed in the attack, which began about 2 a.m. local time at the Minhas base, about 37 miles northwest of Islamabad, an air force spokesman said.

The militants were armed with automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades. Some of the militants wore suicide vests, the spokesman said. *One fighter aircraft was damaged in the attack.*

The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack. Its spokesman, Ihsanullah Ihsan, said the attack was revenge for military actions in the tribal areas of northwestern Pakistan. *He said the attack was carried out by four suicide bombers, but the air force indicated that nine militants were involved.*

Ihsan also claimed that the attackers killed dozens of security people in the assault. We could do anything and target whatever we want, he said. *Our fighters can hit any target anywhere.*

Intense clashes between air force commandos and the insurgents lasted for more than two hours, an air force spokesman said. The commander of the base, Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who was leading the operations against the attackers, was shot and injured in the shoulder, the air force spokesman said. He was reported in stable condition.

The Minhas base, in the town of Kamra, houses the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, the manufacturing division of the air force. It builds French-designed Mirage fighter planes and, with Chinese support, JF-17 fighter jets. Some reports suggested that the air base housed part of Pakistans nuclear arsenal, but the air force spokesman denied the reports.

Security analysts also said it was not true that Pakistan keeps nuclear assets at a base or a military garrison. Nuclear assets management is totally a separate issue and is being dealt with separately, said Mahmood Shah, a former brigadier general in the Pakistani army. No nuclear arsenals are being kept in the known places, such as the air or naval bases or military cantonment areas.

He said the attackers appeared to have good knowledge of the area and the base.* Its not the work of half-educated Taliban militants, but the handiwork of al-Qaeda planners Shah said.* He added that unlike in the Pakistani army, discipline in the air force and navy is loose that needs to be tightened.

The attackers, some wearing military uniforms, moved through a nearby village under cover of darkness and climbed a nine-foot wall strung with barbed wire to break into the base, according to Reuters news agency.

Security forces opened fire when militants strapped with suicide bombing vests approached aircraft hangars, prompting other militants to fire rocket-propelled grenades from outside the bases walls, Reuters reported, citing the air force spokesman.

In May last year, a few days after the killing of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, militants carried out a similar attack on a Pakistani naval base in the southern city of Karachi.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for that attack, in which about 10 security personnel were killed and the militants destroyed two aircraft built by the United States.

*The Pakistani military was also targeted on two previous occasions in Kamra.* In one attack in October 2009, a suicide bomber killed six civilians and two air force members at a checkpoint outside the base. In December 2007, a suicide car bomber hit a school bus and injured several children of base employees.

The latest attack on the air base comes at a time when media reports suggest that Pakistan is preparing for a new military operation in the restive tribal region of North Waziristan.

North Waziristan is the base of the most powerful Taliban-linked militant group, known as the Haqqani network. The United States has been pushing Pakistan for months to carry out an offensive against the group, which is blamed for major terrorist attacks against U.S.-led coalition forces in Afghanistan.

Hasan Askari Rizvi, a Pakistani security analyst, said the attack on the air base has raised serious questions about the security system of the Pakistani armed forces.

Haq Nawaz Khan in Peshawar, Pakistan, contributed to this report.

Militants storm Pakistan air base; 10 killed - The Washington Post


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## Mani2020

Safriz said:


> Anybody knows which aircraft was damaged?



Yar no one knows till now but the confusion is b/w il-78 and erieye ...but i am praying that the damage must be minimum and is repairable in couple of days time and the aircraft to be damaged is not more than one...we are already struggling with our defence budget and these morons are trying everything to destroy our strategic assets and those which are only to be used against india

Just pray that the aircraft is not damaged in a major way


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## Hyperion

Mani2020 said:


> Someone should ask IG punjab how the heck these terrorists entered Punjab and how the heck they were not picked on check posts...How the hell they sniffed in with so much of armour without being caught
> 
> And that guy Rana sanaullah should be slapped on the face



A more prudent question could be: Did they enter Punjab, or were born and bred there? 

It's very convenient to blame it on Pukhtoons, look at the dead guy. Does he resemble anything even CLOSE to a Pathan?

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## airmarshal

I dont understand why such an important base is so close to the population! In US such bases are so far away from the cities that it seems like another country. There must be security exclusion zone around such bases. This is a security lapse on a broader perspective. 

In fact most of Pakistani bases are right in centre of populations. This is a big security risk and now Pakistan is paying for it. the western media is having a field day. They are reporting the base is linked to nuclear program which is not even remotely true. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/17/w...-with-nuclear-ties-is-attacked.html?ref=world


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## Hyperion

Bhai Zakir said:


> Haq Nawaz Khan in Peshawar, Pakistan, contributed to this report.




Zakir sahab, We all here can read proficiently and in all probability have more neurons per square inch, well, compared to ..... There is no need to HIGHLIGHT, BOLDEN and UNDERLINE every other thing that you post.

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## jha

Hyperion said:


> Nahin yaar, I have my doubts. The guy looks nothing like an Afghan or Pushtoon. Look at his facial characteristics VERY VERY carefully. No one is willing to listen to the P word here!



But the real answer is the "P" word...

I might be thrashed for saying this but unless militancy is checked within the ranks of military, it will be very difficult to eliminate this menace. The Unit Moulvis must be watched..

Plus CJP should start targetting the real issues rather than "Samosas " and Letter to swiss authorities which anyway will result in zilch,

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## Hyperion

jha said:


> But the real answer is the "P" word...
> 
> I might be thrashed for saying this but unless militancy is checked within the ranks of military, it will be very difficult to eliminate this menace. The Unit Moulvis must be watched..
> 
> Plus CJP should start targetting the real issues rather than "Samosas " and Letter to swiss authorities which anyway will result in zilch,



The P word is not Pakistan. It's something more local.


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## Safriz

Just Get rid of Afghan Refugees and these Surprise attacks will stop....


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## Mani2020

Hyperion said:


> A more prudent question could be: Did they enter Punjab, or were born and bred there?
> 
> It's very convenient to blame it on Pukhtoons, look at the dead guy. Does he resemble anything even CLOSE to a Pathan?



Yar forget about defending or accusing anyone at the moment i am just cursing the terrorists and feeling for the Shaheed's family 

The question still remains even if they were from Punjab still where was the police , were they sleeping or on a high dose? specially the police of the area of their residence

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## Peregrine

Lets not be like our Eastern neighbour and start blaming our western neighbour when there is nothing conclusive to determine the nationality of the attackers.


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## Bhai Zakir

Hyperion said:


> A more prudent question could be: Did they enter Punjab, or were born and bred there?
> 
> It's very convenient to blame it on Pukhtoons, look at the dead guy. Does he resemble anything even CLOSE to a Pathan?


 
Punjabi Taliban for sure.

And one must not over rule inside help from the airbase itself.


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## RazPaK

Hyperion said:


> A more prudent question could be: Did they enter Punjab, or were born and bred there?
> 
> It's very convenient to blame it on Pukhtoons, look at the dead guy. Does he resemble anything even CLOSE to a Pathan?



It would be silly to say all Pathans look the same.


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## Emmie

Safriz said:


> Anybody knows which aircraft was damaged?



No dude, its still a mystery.


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## Hyperion

Mani2020 said:


> Yar forget about defending or accusing anyone at the moment i am just cursing the terrorists and feeling for the Shaheed's family
> 
> The question still remains even if they were from Punjab still where was the police , were they sleeping or on a high dose? specially the police of the area of their residence



Yara, they need to round them up with the help of ISI before they execute such attacks. ALAS, the problem is the judicial system is pu**y footing and is no help at all! 



RazPaK said:


> It would be silly to say all Pathans look the same.


Razi meri Jaan. We all have HUGE heads (lol, don't take this the other way) and very prominent cheek bones!

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## farhan_9909

TTP aint that professional

A very pre planned attack

anyway They are fcked.

Pak Military Zindabad


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## RazPaK

Hyperion said:


> Yara, they need to round them up with the help of ISI before they execute such attacks. ALAS, the problem is the judicial system is pu**y footing and is no help at all!
> 
> 
> Razi meri Jaan. We all have BIG HEADS



Punjabis along with Ozbeks?

Doesn't seem like the right combination.


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## Safriz

Bhai Zakir said:


> Punjabi Taliban for sure.
> 
> And one must not over rule inside help from the airbase itself.



This has been discussed in the thread already..
But Taliban have Monkeys to do with SAAB AWACS and such specialist targets...
If it were Taliban they had come,shot dead as many Uniformed men and civilians then ran to a Crowded place and blasted themselves...
Taliban don't go after strategic assets..
This is certainly a Proxy attack by a country who will benefit from destruction of SAAB AWACS and we all know the countries , not just the country.


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## Mani2020

Hyperion said:


> Yara, they need to round them up with the help of ISI before they execute such attacks. ALAS, the problem is the judicial system is pu**y footing and is no help at all!
> 
> 
> Razi meri Jaan. We all have BIG HEADS



Yar you cant believe how much detailed the intelligence agencies report was, they even mentioned the number of suicide jackets bought,when bought and even the number of cars and where they are parked ...The dates were also there ....then it was the duty of police to tighten up the screws but they again proved to be fats a$$ ducks ,that are good for nothing

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## AHMED85

Sad incident But i also told you about the terrorism and its nature... It cant be stop until some serious initiatives should take place...which can minimize its intensity......


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## Hyperion

RazPaK said:


> Punjabis along with Ozbeks?
> 
> Doesn't seem like the right combination.



LMAO - Yara, we are not making a Hyderabadi curry! All combinations are possible. What made you think that Pathan and Uzbek is a legit culinary experience?


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## Safriz

RazPaK said:


> Punjabis along with Ozbeks?
> 
> Doesn't seem like the right combination.



They are among us in the form of Afghan refugees...


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## Bhai Zakir

I must add the Indian perspective.

Indian news channels are not covering this attack on PAF airbase, news as big news.

So, it tells about the obsession.


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## Safriz

Mani2020 said:


> Yar you cant believe how much detailed the intelligence agencies report was, they even mentioned the number of suicide jackets bought,when bought and even the number of cars and where they are parked ...The dates were also there ....then it was the duty of police to tighten up the screws but they again proved to be fats a$$ ducks ,that are good for nothing



The intelligence was there 4 months ago and was even known to general Public that something is going to happen...
So ISI had done their job...


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## Mani2020

Geo news again reporting that the damaged aircraft was an AWAC


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## Safriz

Bhai Zakir said:


> I must add the Indian perspective.
> 
> Indian news channels are not covering this attack on PAF airbase, news as big news.
> 
> *So, it tells about the obsession*.



Or the guilty feeling?


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## Peregrine

The timing and date of the attack suggest that it could very well be a foreign assisted attack. A very sacred night it was and the terrorists must have thought that majority would be busy praying. Remember Yom Kippur war?


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## blackops

May god help your country and keep it safe from these low lifes good job to your army

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## Safriz

Mani2020 said:


> Geo news again reporting that the damaged aircraft was an AWAC



The air force hasn't released any confirmation yet..so GEO is only speculating...
But using logic..It was known that SAAB will be attacked..The intelligence was there 4 months ago..so it can be assumed that security was tight around the AWACS and the damaged plane was some other.


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## deckingraj

Safriz said:


> This has been discussed in the thread already..
> But Taliban have Monkeys to do with SAAB AWACS and such specialist targets...
> If it were Taliban they had come,shot dead as many Uniformed men and civilians then ran to a Crowded place and blasted themselves...
> Taliban don't go after strategic assets..
> This is certainly a Proxy attack by a country who will benefit from destruction of SAAB AWACS and we all know the countries , not just the country.



Even if we assume whatever you are saying is correct yet the bigger question would be why is that these proxies are able to penetrate areas which are supposedly well guarded??? I can understand if there is slippage in one place but when the same pattern repeats then the first thing one should do is look inwards, no???


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## Mani2020

The thing that baffles me instead of my every effort to divert myself is ...These il-literate talibans dont know even a,b,c of any aircraft then how these a$$ holes left all the aircrafts and specifically targeted erieye ..

even if they were educated they would have targeted the fighter aircrafts or helicopters that are smacking their a$$ and not an AWAC aircraft 

Do whatever or hide wherever believe me and i bet on that they had some foreign hand with them .... go prove me wrong

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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> They are among us in the form of Afghan refugees...



Buddy, every now and then, you dish-out these sweeping statements about 'foreign hand', 'afghan hand', 'pakhtoon finger'. May I ask that: If IB, MI, FIA, PI, PNI, FNA, ISI all provided you with real-time terminals, hooked up directly into your computer screen?

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## TaimiKhan

Bhai Zakir said:


> I must add the Indian perspective.
> 
> Indian news channels are not covering this attack on PAF airbase, news as big news.
> 
> So, it tells about the obsession.


 
Indian perspective is big damage, which fortunately for us and unfortunately for Indians did not happen this time, all militants dead with one casualty on military side with no major damage to infrastructure results in a failed operation, thus nothing to talk about it. 

Anyway Pak media will take the issue in a day or two in its tak shows.

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## meena24

Attacking air bases always has been strategy to De-moralize the armed forces involved in the operation. LTTE also executed a daring raid inside Anuradhapuram Air base in srilanka. But however Srilanka reacted strongly by attacking LTTE Political head quarters using precision guided bombs, the attack killed SP Tamil Selvan and Alex head of LTTE Military Intelligence wing. *Sheer optical value of an aircraft is always high in Asian Countries.* That is why the loss of an aircraft always attracts Public attention. For example take this thread As of now it has crossed more than 95 Pages, If any thread regarding to the loss of soldiers in conflict would not take this much of pages or receive this much of comments.

Raid on Anuradhapura Air Force Base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Safriz

blackops said:


> May god help your country and keep it safe from these low lifes good job to your army



Thats what the local villagers were saying..
In any other night the terrorists would have been noted moving across the terrain..
But that was Shab-e-Qadar and Locals were awake moving in the area going to mosques and coming back...So the terrorist movement was camouflaged among locals.....


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## jha

Hyperion said:


> The P word is not Pakistan. It's something more local.



I know sir...



Hyperion said:


> The P word is not Pakistan. It's something more local.



I know sir...

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## Punjabbi Munda

Bhai Zakir said:


> I must add the Indian perspective.
> 
> Indian news channels are not covering this attack on PAF airbase, news as big news.
> 
> So, it tells about the obsession.


 
I noticed it too,saw news channels all day went through google news but didn't see anything related to it,only got to know about the incident in the evening after seeing it on PDF.

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## deckingraj

Mani2020 said:


> The thing that baffles me instead of my every effort to divert myself is ...These il-literate talibans dont know even a,b,c of any aircraft then how these a$$ holes left all the aircrafts and specifically targeted erieye ..
> 
> even if they were educated they would have targeted the fighter aircrafts or helicopters that are smacking their a$$ and not an AWAC aircraft
> 
> Do whatever or hide wherever believe me and i bet on that they had some foreign hand with them .... go prove me wrong



With no intention of proving you wrong i would like to bring in few points..

It is a myth that these people are illitrates...These people(not referring only to taliban) have penetrated the so called elite class way back...As far as foreign hand is concerned then one should not rule out any possibility...However just because they attacked Erieye and not Mirage or JF17 and thus bound to have a foreign hand is probably not the right conclusion...I mean had they attacked a JF17 then still we could have deduced the same arguments and claimed that it has a foreign angle...


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## AHMED85

deckingraj said:


> Even if we assume whatever you are saying is correct yet the bigger question would be why is that these proxies are able to penetrate areas which are supposedly well guarded??? I can understand if there is slippage in one place but when the same pattern repeats then the first thing one should do is look inwards, no???



Due to lack in Village are location area Defense Committee which are design By ISI.....


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## deckingraj

AHMED85 said:


> Due to lack in Village are location area Defense Committee which are design By ISI.....



Sorry did not get what you mean...please elaborate...b/w proximity to villages or no villages is not a satisfactory answer...these areas should be fool proof come what may...


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## Safriz

Hyperion said:


> Buddy, every now and then, you dish-out these sweeping statements about 'foreign hand', 'afghan hand', 'pakhtoon finger'. May I ask that: If IB, MI, FIA, PI, PNI, FNA, ISI all provided you with real-time terminals, hooked up directly into your computer screen?



It is the most logical explanation....
The boundary wall at the back of the Base was under surveillance for many weeks or months...and the terrorists were in the area already and amassing ammunition and intelligence.
The local villagers were saying that they did not notice anybody among them,except the many afghan refugees living in the area..about whom nobody knows their identity....

So the only unknown people there were the afghan refugees..
They are the ones who also keep shuttling between Afghanistan and Pakistan freely..

So there are the clues..


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## deckingraj

TaimiKhan said:


> Indian perspective is big damage, which fortunately for us and unfortunately for Indians did not happen this time, all militants dead with one casualty on military side with no major damage to infrastructure results in a failed operation, thus nothing to talk about it.
> 
> Anyway Pak media will take the issue in a day or two in its tak shows.



Disagree....This is a huge opportunity to highlight how Pakistani nukes are unsafe and blah blah...no??


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## Bratva

Hyperion said:


> Yara, they need to round them up with the help of ISI before they execute such attacks. *ALAS, the problem is the judicial system is pu**y footing and is no help at all*!
> 
> 
> Razi meri Jaan. We all have HUGE heads (lol, don't take this the other way) and very prominent cheek bones!



***** Footing is done by our parliament. Existing laws on Evidences presented in court and which evidences are countable and where to give benefit of doubt are totally obsolete and shrewd lawyers take maximum benefit of the loop holes... It's the task of Parliament to amend the laws and update them according to current trends.... The FCUKING parliament can pass amended Toheen e adalat law in 15 minutes which suits their interest but can not amend laws which suits the interests of nation.



Hyperion said:


> Yara, they need to round them up with the help of ISI before they execute such attacks. *ALAS, the problem is the judicial system is pu**y footing and is no help at all*!
> 
> 
> Razi meri Jaan. We all have HUGE heads (lol, don't take this the other way) and very prominent cheek bones!



***** Footing is done by our parliament. Existing laws on Evidences presented in court and which evidences are countable and where to give benefit of doubt are totally obsolete and shrewd lawyers take maximum benefit of the loop holes... It's the task of Parliament to amend the laws and update them according to current trends.... The FCUKING parliament can pass amended Toheen e adalat law in 15 minutes which suits their interest but can not amend laws which suits the interests of nation.


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## Mani2020

deckingraj said:


> With no intention of proving you wrong i would like to bring in few points..
> 
> It is a myth that these people are illitrates...These people(not referring only to taliban) have penetrated the so called elite class way back...As far as foreign hand is concerned then one should not rule out any possibility...However just because they attacked Erieye and not Mirage or JF17 and thus bound to have a foreign hand is probably not the right conclusion...I mean had they attacked a JF17 then still we could have deduced the same arguments and claimed that it has a foreign angle...



Attacking a fighter aircraft or helicopter would have made some point as these assets are used against these terrorists but AWAC? that was not harming them at all so why someone do so much of effort to destroy something that is of no use to them or bring no benefit or relief to them ...Tell me if you would have bee in their place will you attack military officials, fighter aircarfts, helicopters with the former one to take revenge of the deaths they are suffering by the hands of PA and the latter one which are smacking their a$$ or an AWAC that has nothing to do with them

Reports have mentioned that it is not a co-incidence rather the plan form scratch was to attack AWAC and they targeted the RPG on the AWAC hanger instead of other aircrafts present their outside hangers

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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> It is the most logical explanation....
> The boundary wall at the back of the Base was under surveillance for many weeks or months...and the terrorists were in the area already and amassing ammunition and intelligence.
> The local villagers were saying that they did not notice anybody among them,except the many afghan refugees living in the area..about whom nobody knows their identity....
> 
> So the only unknown people there were the afghan refugees..
> They are the ones who also keep shuttling between Afghanistan and Pakistan freely..
> 
> So there are the clues..



There are no Afghan refugees living there. I'm ex AF. I have visited the base a gazillion times since I was a kid. The only side exposed is the fence adjacent to the main road. It had been proposed since 1998 to mine that side of the fence.

Don't weave imaginary stories with straws provided by our media.


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## blain2

deckingraj said:


> With no intention of proving you wrong i would like to bring in few points..
> 
> It is a myth that these people are illitrates...These people(not referring only to taliban) have penetrated the so called elite class way back...As far as foreign hand is concerned then one should not rule out any possibility...However just because they attacked Erieye and not Mirage or JF17 and thus bound to have a foreign hand is probably not the right conclusion...I mean had they attacked a JF17 then still we could have deduced the same arguments and claimed that it has a foreign angle...



Most of the attackers that have been tracked in the past have been found to be uneducated or maybe primary schooled. Their minders recruit them with such limited education because it is easy to program such individuals. 

The issue is their target selection. Why do they go for the most expensive and strategic assets? If their primary purpose was to make the security forces look weak, they can strike any of the locations such as units or divisional HQs or police stations. The fact that they are going for very select targets could be a coincidence, but in my mind their planners have something more sinister in mind.

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## Bhai Zakir

TaimiKhan said:


> Indian perspective is big damage, which fortunately for us and unfortunately for Indians did not happen this time, all militants dead with one casualty on military side with no major damage to infrastructure results in a failed operation, thus nothing to talk about it.
> 
> Anyway Pak media will take the issue in a day or two in its tak shows.


 
But don't u agree its a very big attack and embarrassment??

Does this types of attacks Happens in any other part of the world that too regularly??

Anyways, my point was that we are not that obsessed.


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## Moorkh

Mani2020 said:


> Attacking a fighter aircraft or helicopter would have made some point as these assets are used against these terrorists but AWAC? that was not harming them at all so why someone do so much of effort to destroy something that is of no use to them or bring no benefit or relief to them ...Tell me if you would have bee in their place will you attack military officials, fighter aircarfts, helicopters with the former one to take revenge of the deaths they are suffering by the hands of PA and the latter one which are smacking their a$$ or an AWAC that has nothing to do with them
> 
> Reports have mentioned that it is not a co-incidence rather the plan form scratch was to attack AWAC and they targeted the RPG on the AWAC hanger instead of other aircrafts present their outside hangers



Maybe they were looking for the biggest plane to destroy?

Good job by the commandos, keeping the terrorists from doing any damage



Mani2020 said:


> Attacking a fighter aircraft or helicopter would have made some point as these assets are used against these terrorists but AWAC? that was not harming them at all so why someone do so much of effort to destroy something that is of no use to them or bring no benefit or relief to them ...Tell me if you would have bee in their place will you attack military officials, fighter aircarfts, helicopters with the former one to take revenge of the deaths they are suffering by the hands of PA and the latter one which are smacking their a$$ or an AWAC that has nothing to do with them
> 
> Reports have mentioned that it is not a co-incidence rather the plan form scratch was to attack AWAC and they targeted the RPG on the AWAC hanger instead of other aircrafts present their outside hangers



Maybe they were looking for the biggest plane to destroy?

Good job by the commandos, keeping the terrorists from doing any damage


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## Mani2020

Hyperion said:


> There are no Afghan refugees living there. I'm ex AF. I have visited the base a gazillion times since I was a kid. The only side exposed is the fence adjacent to the main road. It had been proposed since 1998 to mine that side of the fence.
> 
> Don't weave imaginary stories with straws provided by our media.



Ask your contacts to provide you with the info of the aircraft damaged...so you can share with us


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## indushek

TaimiKhan said:


> Indian perspective is big damage, which fortunately for us and unfortunately for Indians did not happen this time, all militants dead with one casualty on military side with no major damage to infrastructure results in a failed operation, thus nothing to talk about it.
> 
> Anyway Pak media will take the issue in a day or two in its tak shows.



This is too much of a generalization. We don't celebrate such kind of attacks or resulting damage (big or small). Being a neighbouring country yes we will be worried.


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## Hyperion

mafiya said:


> ***** Footing is done by our parliament. Existing laws on Evidences presented in court and which evidences are countable and where to give benefit of doubt are totally obsolete and shrewd lawyers take maximum benefit of the loop holes... It's the task of Parliament to amend the laws and update them according to current trends.... The FCUKING parliament can pass amended Toheen e adalat law in 15 minutes which suits their interest but can not amend laws which suits the interests of nation.



Read a nice news item I posted somewhere on this thread.


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## meena24

blain2 said:


> Most of the attackers that have been tracked in the past have been found to be uneducated or maybe primary schooled. Their minders recruit them with such limited education because it is easy to program such individuals.
> 
> The issue is their target selection. Why do they go for the most expensive and strategic assets? If their primary purpose was to make the security forces look weak, they can strike any of the locations such as units or divisional HQs or police stations. The fact that they are going for very select targets could be a coincidence, but in my mind their planners have something more sinister in mind.



This is the best example for what i have quoted in my previous post, The loss of an aircraft or attack in a airbase always receives much attention.


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## Mani2020

Moorkh said:


> Maybe they were looking for the biggest plane to destroy?
> 
> Good job by the commandos, keeping the terrorists from doing any damage
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they were looking for the biggest plane to destroy?
> 
> Good job by the commandos, keeping the terrorists from doing any damage



The biggest aircraft stationed there was il-78 and not erieye


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## indushek

blain2 said:


> Most of the attackers that have been tracked in the past have been found to be uneducated or maybe primary schooled. Their minders recruit them with such limited education because it is easy to program such individuals.
> 
> The issue is their target selection. Why do they go for the most expensive and strategic assets? If their primary purpose was to make the security forces look weak, they can strike any of the locations such as units or divisional HQs or police stations. The fact that they are going for very select targets could be a coincidence, but in my mind their planners have something more sinister in mind.



Trying to maximize the damage would be the obvious answer sir, unless u have some other angle on this.


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## Hyperion

Mani2020 said:


> Ask your contacts to provide you with the info of the aircraft damaged...so you can share with us



Trying to track some old course mates as we speak!

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## blain2

Bhai Zakir said:


> But don't u agree its a very big attack and embarrassment??
> 
> Does this types of attacks Happens in any other part of the world that too regularly??
> 
> Anyways, my point was that we are not that obsessed.



Any attack is "embarrassing" but the point is that the country is in the midst of an insurgency in a part of the country and there is blowback. In my view, the attacks should not be considered "embarrasing", rather "expected" as these people are known to strike soft targets. What would be embarrassing is a weak response, which in this situation is clearly not the case. Ehsanullah Ehsan, the big mouth of TTP can just brag about launching an "attack", but nothing more because he knows that his people got put down before they could do any major damage. The loss of one of the Air Force personnel is indeed heart breaking.

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## acetophenol

The Pak commandoes make those cowards bite some dust. Lazy cowards!

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## Mani2020

I wish we could get rid of these terrorists but at the moment it is looking next to impossible as the terrorists have infiltrated so much as well as the sympathy they enjoy in not only military as well as civilian ranks may it be upper hierarchy or the middle and lower one


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## Abingdonboy

*To all those jumping the gun and blaming India:*


I have called for patience and restrain earlier on this thread but been told to hold my tongue and allow others to vent but it is now gotten to the point where some are saying it is India and US as a declarative statement holding this to be fact. This is slander pure and simple, there has NEVER been a single shred of evidence about India operating proxies in Pakistan or orchestrating such attacks. India is being used to hide the simple but disturbing fact that these were probably home-bred terrorists trained and equipped in Pakistan by Pakistanis and that once again they have attacked their own nation and killed their countrymen. India is once again being used as a all-weather scapegoat to hide any failures by the Pakistani military and government just as India is blamed for most of Pakistan's ills despite how ridiculous this sounds sometimes. Let's entertain the ludicrous notion that it was India for a moment, does the GoP/PAF not have to take a significant proportion of the blame for this attack because it has,supposedly, happened before and it keeps happening again and again- does Pakistan not learn from its mistakes? 




Here's what I posted earlier:




> Guys it is clear we should wait for more details to emerge before jumping to conclusions. Before balking the "boogy man" India one should control oneself. No link with India and terror groups has ever been proved and anyone who says it it has talking nonsense because if so where I'd the evidence and where is the official protest by the GoP? India has given thousands of pages of evidence to Pksitan over 26/11 and other attacks so surely this would be sweet revenge for the GoP? Addtionally for those inferring tht the attack had foreign finger prints just because they targeted AWACs are drawing conclusions they want to be true to absolve them of the real and more bitter truth. The TTP's motives for attacking AWACS are clear- they now see the GoP and thenPaksitani military as their enemy and hence want to inflict as much damage to their adversary as possible and hence it makes sense to attack an AWACS over say an F-16 or JF-17 in the same way it made sense to attack P-3s. The P-3s and AWACS are strategic assets, assets which Paksitan has relatively few hence taking out an Orion or Erieye would have a much larger effect on the PAF/PN and Paksitan as a whole given they are fewer in number, are much more expensive per unit to procure and replace and are "force multipliers" in themselves. Taking out an F-16 or Thunder would be damaging but clearly not as damaging as taking out a P-3 or AWACs. This is clear to any rational person so the TTP don't need to be CIA/Mossad/RAW trained or backed or Einsteins to peruse this line of attack, do they?
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/202635-attack-paf-base-minhas-75.html#ixzz23ii8Dq5m




It is absurd that all these accusations against India are tolerated by the moderators as they have to factual base nor evidence to support these claims. I have seen much less be dealt with much more severely.

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## Devil Soul



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## blain2

indushek said:


> Trying to maximize the damage would be the obvious answer sir, unless u have some other angle on this.



Damage to what? Why just the military infrastructure? If they are against the state, why not PIA assets? Why not railroads? If its military infrastructure, then why the reconnaissance capabilty? And secondly, are we to believe that folks like Ehsanullah Ehsan and the likes can distinguish between a AEW&C platform and the others? This requires knowledge, analysis. Maybe the TTP has evolved but I have my doubts about that.

I would offer that maybe these militants had some insight provided to them by a disgruntled individual formerly associated with the security agencies as this has happened in the past, but the target selection does make one wonder about the motivation.

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## blain2

Abingdonboy said:


> *To all those jumping the gun and blaming India:*
> 
> 
> 
> It is absurd that all these accusations against India are tolerated by the moderators as they have to factual base nor evidence to support these claims. I have seen much less be dealt with much more severely.



These are views and as such should not be suppressed. Nobody here knows anything factually and as such many are postulating.

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## Emmie

Safriz said:


> It is the most logical explanation....
> The boundary wall at the back of the Base was under surveillance for many weeks or months...and the terrorists were in the area already and amassing ammunition and intelligence.
> The local villagers were saying that they did not notice anybody among them,except the many afghan refugees living in the area..about whom nobody knows their identity....
> 
> So the only unknown people there were the afghan refugees..
> They are the ones who also keep shuttling between Afghanistan and Pakistan freely..
> 
> So there are the clues..



This logic would help you relax for sure but won't explain the security lapse which occurred despite of prior intelligence reports. Whether its TTP, Afghan or local you had reports but you didn't trace the leads, didn't make bases impregnable.

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> Razi meri Jaan. *We all have HUGE heads (lol, don't take this the other way) and very prominent cheek bones! *



Huge Heads - Bereft of any brains and the cheek bones are that way because of sucking on too much ahmmmn !  

*jokes*

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## CENTCOM

These terrorists did not even care for the sanctity of one of the holiest nights of Ramazan. They attacked the Kamra Airbase and killed a soldier. Our condolences go out to the family of the brave man killed protecting his country. We congratulate the Pakistani military for foiling the attack and killing the terrorist with minimal damage to the base. Our prayers are with those who were injured, including the base commander. We wish them a quick recovery. 

Terrorists are the biggest enemy of the state today. They want to see an unstable and defeated Pakistan. We stand with Pakistan in solidarity against all forms of terrorism and support them in their quest to bring peace in the region. 


Capt. Joseph Kreidel
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

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## Icarus

blain2 said:


> Damage to what? Why just the military infrastructure? If they are against the state, why not PIA assets? Why not railroads? If its military infrastructure, then why the reconnaissance capabilty? And secondly, are we to believe that folks like Ehsanullah Ehsan and the likes can distinguish between a AEW&C platform and the others? This requires knowledge, analysis. Maybe the TTP has evolved but I have my doubts about that.




You're talking my lingo now, that's the point I have been pushing since morning to the TTP anything that has wings and flies on fuel is a "Jahaz" a B-56, A-10, F-16, Saab-2000, Boeing 777, Mushak, JF-17, YF-12, P-3C, Me-109 are all simply "Jahaz". 
Their leadership can't distinguish between a passenger plane and an aerial refueller, then how can they know that they want to target ONLY AWACs and Naval Recon Planes? And why is it that the attacking contingent consisted solely of Uzbeks in both cases?

I am sending these observations to the higher-ups for investigation, glad to see I'm not the only one who finds this strange.

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## Imran Khan



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## Devil Soul

Base Commander Air Commodore Azam Khan who got injured while during gun battle with terrorists

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## Hyperion

Armstrong said:


> Huge Heads - Bereft of any brains and the cheek bones are that way because of sucking on too much ahmmmn !
> 
> *jokes*



Aakhir tumm nay aaj shakkal dikha hi dee. Now I can leave the thread in your capable hands

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## clmeta

Taliban have taken responsibility. But some people keep living in denial.


Safriz said:


> This has been discussed in the thread already..
> But Taliban have Monkeys to do with SAAB AWACS and such specialist targets...
> If it were Taliban they had come,shot dead as many Uniformed men and civilians then ran to a Crowded place and blasted themselves...
> Taliban don't go after strategic assets..
> This is certainly a Proxy attack by a country who will benefit from destruction of SAAB AWACS and we all know the countries , not just the country.


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## Najam Khan

The mission profile for this attack was same as the attack on PNS Mehran. Well planned and well executed, terrorists had same weapons and gear, uniform for deception and above all great timing. Thanks to SSW and SSG units stationed at the base/attock fort quick response was made...*one simple question remains why too much security only on prominent areas of the base? *

I think its time that our armed forces revisit their bases and military installations security plans. Bastrads have knocked doors of GHQ, Naval base, third time in Kamra...what more is left?

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## Windjammer

Abingdonboy said:


> It is absurd that all these accusations against India are tolerated by the moderators as they have to factual base nor evidence to support these claims. I have seen much less be dealt with much more severely.



At least you are not witnessing some ten twelve years old doing rounds on the streets of Pakistan encouraged by their teacher to shout slogans like...
*
"Gali gali mein shour hey.......India sala chour hey". !!!!*

Something we witnessed while there was still a fire fight taking place inside the Taj.


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## Hyperion

Icarus said:


> You're talking my lingo now, that's the point I have been pushing since morning to the TTP anything that has wings and flies on fuel is a "Jahaz" a B-56, A-10, F-16, Saab-2000, Boeing 777, Mushak, JF-17, YF-12, P-3C, Me-109 are all simply "Jahaz".
> Their leadership can't distinguish between a passenger plane and an aerial refueller, then how can they know that they want to target ONLY AWACs and Naval Recon Planes? And why is it that the attacking contingent consisted solely of Uzbeks in both cases?
> 
> I am sending these observations to the higher-ups for investigation, glad to see I'm not the only one who finds this strange.



Mate, seriously you can't be that Naive?

They may have the following nomenclature for Air Force assets:

...Air Force..................Talibanese-Nomenclature
1. Refueler..................Sab say bara aur mota jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
2. AWE&C....................Jahaz pay lamba danda YA gol plate
3. JF17........................Chota patla jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
4. F16.........................F Sola  (took liberty here as all the truck artists already know this one)
5. SSG........................Saf walay fauji.

I rest my case!

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## Mani2020

Icarus said:


> You're talking my lingo now, that's the point I have been pushing since morning to the TTP anything that has wings and flies on fuel is a "Jahaz" a B-56, A-10, F-16, Saab-2000, Boeing 777, Mushak, JF-17, YF-12, P-3C, Me-109 are all simply "Jahaz".
> Their leadership can't distinguish between a passenger plane and an aerial refueller, then how can they know that they want to target ONLY AWACs and Naval Recon Planes? And why is it that the attacking contingent consisted solely of Uzbeks in both cases?
> 
> I am sending these observations to the higher-ups for investigation, glad to see I'm not the only one who finds this strange.



I second you on that, and have been insisting all day long...but if you have some serious references at higher level you should take this point to them


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## Irfan Baloch

Abingdonboy said:


> *
> It is absurd that all these accusations against India are tolerated by the moderators as they have to factual base nor evidence to support these claims. I have seen much less be dealt with much more severely.*


*

what are they you just called? accusations..
so whats the problem

we are in a forum with differing opinion and thats the whole point of defence forums to share differnt points of view without disrespecting each other.

but if you want to play softball then go to the park, i.e. on some showbiz forum where there is no such chance of such political debate.
people are bound to have such opinions, come on you cant take offence for such a thing, you guys have made valid points already and thats duly noted. but given our relations it wont be always unanimous approval. 

the views expressed here by people are not endorsed by Moderators, we just look out for anything that goes against the forum rules. remember this not Arab section where only voicing a differing opinion is considered offensive hehe.*


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## Najam Khan

Imran Khan said:


>



The IL-78s are stationed on two bases. The one in Minhas is for both air-refueling trails with MRF and it serve as transport aircraft too.


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## meena24

Icarus said:


> You're talking my lingo now, that's the point I have been pushing since morning to the TTP anything that has wings and flies on fuel is a "Jahaz" a B-56, A-10, F-16, Saab-2000, Boeing 777, Mushak, JF-17, YF-12, P-3C, Me-109 are all simply "Jahaz".
> Their leadership can't distinguish between a passenger plane and an aerial refueller, then how can they know that they want to target ONLY AWACs and Naval Recon Planes? And why is it that the attacking contingent consisted solely of Uzbeks in both cases?
> 
> I am sending these observations to the higher-ups for investigation, glad to see I'm not the only one who finds this strange.



If you underestimate the capabilities of Taliban, You are mistaken. Not to mention that this is happening every month in Afghanistan against their bases, But they have repulsed. Haqqani Network crossed a red line in a recent attack FOB Salerno.


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## regular

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> saab 2000 damaged ,
> RPG hit , damage is not severe ...
> one rudder is badly damaged but hopefully it will be repaired in a month or so


I guess we need to checkout that there is no kickback involved within the SAAB 2000.Mr Ghaddari might be involved cuz he did the same with the French engineerz for the subz deal in 1990's era.bombed the sh*t outta them.....Maybe SAAB company didn't wanna pay kickbacks to him.....

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## Imran Khan

Hyperion said:


> Mate, seriously you can't be that Naive?
> 
> They may have the following nomenclature for Air Force assets:
> 
> ...Air Force.................Taliban
> 1. Refueler.................Sab say bara air mota jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 2. AWE&C...................Jahaz pay lamba danda YA gol plate
> 3. JF17.......................Chota patla jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 4. F16.........................F Sola  (took liberty here as all the truck artists already know this one)
> 5. SSG........................Saf walay fauji.
> 
> I rest my case!




ye training ho rahi hai ?

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## Hyperion

Imran Khan said:


> ye training ho rahi hai ?


Got tired of emotional statements. So, I said why not a simple lesson even the Talibanese can impart to their recruits. Not all of them can be potato-heads!


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## Mani2020

Hyperion said:


> Mate, seriously you can't be that Naive?
> 
> They may have the following nomenclature for Air Force assets:
> 
> ...Air Force..................Talibanese-Nomenclature
> 1. Refueler..................Sab say bara aur mota jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 2. AWE&C....................Jahaz pay lamba danda YA gol plate
> 3. JF17........................Chota patla jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 4. F16.........................F Sola  (took liberty here as all the truck artists already know this one)
> 5. SSG........................Saf walay fauji.
> 
> I rest my case!



More than anything you are providing them with the way to learn the differentiation ....stop here,....otherwise they gonna search you to hire you as their analyst

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## Peaceful Civilian

I think terrorist succeeded in their mission, Their intention was to destroy/damage AWACS and they did it.

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## Hyperion

Mani2020 said:


> More than anything you are providing them with the way to learn the differentiation ....stop here,....otherwise they gonna search you to hire you as their analyst



LMAO


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## Mani2020

clmeta said:


> Yaar tumhare coffee mein shakkar zyada ho jaayega to usmein bhi "foreign hand" hoga.



still we haven't reached the level of india


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## Icarus

Peaceful Civlian said:


> I think terrorist succeeded in their mission, Their intention was to destroy/damage AWACS and they did it.




The AWACs is fine, some splinters is all. Can be fixed in a day.

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## Irfan Baloch

Hyperion said:


> Mate, seriously you can't be that Naive?
> 
> They may have the following nomenclature for Air Force assets:
> 
> ...Air Force..................Talibanese-Nomenclature
> 1. Refueler..................Sab say bara aur mota jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 2. AWE&C....................Jahaz pay lamba danda YA gol plate
> 3. JF17........................Chota patla jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 4. F16.........................F Sola  (took liberty here as all the truck artists already know this one)
> 5. SSG........................Saf walay fauji.
> 
> I rest my case!



no you cant 

tell me what do you mean by saf walay fauji


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## Emmie

Hyperion said:


> Mate, seriously you can't be that Naive?
> 
> They may have the following nomenclature for Air Force assets:
> 
> ...Air Force..................Talibanese-Nomenclature
> 1. Refueler..................Sab say bara aur mota jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 2. AWE&C....................Jahaz pay lamba danda YA gol plate
> 3. JF17........................Chota patla jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 4. F16.........................F Sola  (took liberty here as all the truck artists already know this one)
> 5. SSG........................Saf walay fauji.
> 
> I rest my case!



Don't rest it yet... Un ko kaise pata chalta hay kay AWE&C kay oper aik danda ya gol tray hotti hay? Prolly they have aviation experts!

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## I M Sikander

Devil Soul said:


> Base Commander Air Commodore Azam Khan who got injured while during gun battle with terrorists



Unlike the coward base commander of Mehran Base. This guy has set an example himself for others, by leading his javans on the front

Definitely A true Soldier

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## Hyperion

Irfan Baloch said:


> no you cant
> 
> tell me what do you mean by saf walay fauji



Well, SSG are always most well dressed of all the forces. Aren't they?


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## mjnaushad

danger007 said:


> that doesn't matter buddy, terrorists must think plenty of times to attack an military base..... they should fear to attack ..... what happen to ISI, why they didn't warned ????



How about you spend a little more time reading before you make more fool of yourself.

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> Aakhir tumm nay aaj shakkal dikha hi dee. Now I can leave the thread in your capable hands



No I just dropped by to see whats happening ! It turns out that we're as confused as we were to begin with. I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that the TTP would have the military mind to know what kind of bases and air-crafts to go after ! First it were the P3s and then the Saabs Or the Il-78s ! The first two are for recon whereas the Russian made aircraft is either for refueling or transportation ! How in God's name could a rag-tag bunch of militants have the military acumen to determine what those aircrafts are to begin with, how significant has their contributions been in the war effort and where of all places would they be located ? Surely the local TTP commander didn't wake up one morning and say 'Aaaj zaraaa PAF Minhas pe woh walaa aircraft tou tabhaaa kar ke deikhtei hain ?'.

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## K-Xeroid

Hyperion said:


> Mate, seriously you can't be that Naive?
> 
> They may have the following nomenclature for Air Force assets:
> 
> ...Air Force..................Talibanese-Nomenclature
> 1. Refueler..................Sab say bara aur mota jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 2. AWE&C....................Jahaz pay lamba danda YA gol plate
> 3. JF17........................Chota patla jahaz, pakhay kay baghair
> 4. F16.........................F Sola  (took liberty here as all the truck artists already know this one)
> 5. SSG........................Saf walay fauji.
> 
> I rest my case!


Lambey dnday wala jahaz ya Gol plate ku Girana hey , Done .


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## indushek

blain2 said:


> Damage to what? Why just the military infrastructure? If they are against the state, why not PIA assets? Why not railroads? If its military infrastructure, then why the reconnaissance capabilty? And secondly, are we to believe that folks like Ehsanullah Ehsan and the likes can distinguish between a AEW&C platform and the others? This requires knowledge, analysis. Maybe the TTP has evolved but I have my doubts about that.
> 
> I would offer that maybe these militants had some insight provided to them by a disgruntled individual formerly associated with the security agencies as this has happened in the past, but the target selection does make one wonder about the motivation.



Sir the TTP is being attacked by your army and it will attack those who are a danger to them. Regarding the target selection may be the TTP isn't just that ragtag it may seem, while the assistance of armed forces either retired or discharged could be one possibility it could also be some outside professional they could be trained by mercenaries who belong to no side but act for money.

I am not at all saying that foreign hand of India or USA or any other country has to be ruled out, but as of now the report should come out after due investigation. 

These are my 2 cents. Could be wrong too.


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## Icarus

Hyperion said:


> Well, SSG are always most well dressed of all the forces. Aren't they?



Most often they are the one's neck deep in mud!

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## mjnaushad

Abingdonboy said:


> *To all those jumping the gun and blaming India:*
> 
> 
> I have called for patience and restrain earlier on this thread but been told to hold my tongue and allow others to vent but it is now gotten to the point where some are saying it is India and US as a declarative statement holding this to be fact. This is slander pure and simple, there has NEVER been a single shred of evidence about India operating proxies in Pakistan or orchestrating such attacks. India is being used to hide the simple but disturbing fact that these were probably home-bred terrorists trained and equipped in Pakistan by Pakistanis and that once again they have attacked their own nation and killed their countrymen. India is once again being used as a all-weather scapegoat to hide any failures by the Pakistani military and government just as India is blamed for most of Pakistan's ills despite how ridiculous this sounds sometimes. Let's entertain the ludicrous notion that it was India for a moment, does the GoP/PAF not have to take a significant proportion of the blame for this attack because it has,supposedly, happened before and it keeps happening again and again- does Pakistan not learn from its mistakes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what I posted earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is absurd that all these accusations against India are tolerated by the moderators as they have to factual base nor evidence to support these claims. I have seen much less be dealt with much more severely.




SO everyone who blame state of Pakistan without any proof should be banned as well......




MODS PLEASE BAN THIS GUY ON HIS PREVIOUS RECORD FOR BLAMING PAKISTAN WITHOUT PROOF AND REST OF 99% INDIANS AS WELL


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## Hyperion

Armstrong said:


> No I just dropped by to see whats happening ! It turns out that we're as confused as we were to begin with. I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that the TTP would have the military mind to know what kind of bases and air-crafts to go after ! First it were the P3s and then the Saabs Or the Il-78s ! The first two are for recon whereas the Russian made aircraft is either for refueling or transportation ! How in God's name could a rag-tag bunch of militants have the military acumen to determine what those aircrafts are to begin with, how significant has their contributions been in the war effort and where of all places would they be located ? Surely the local TTP commander didn't wake up one morning and say 'Aaaj zaraaa PAF Minhas pe woh walaa aircraft tou tabhaaa kar ke deikhtei hain ?'.



The only logical explanation from the conspiracy minded 'hum-watan' could be:

The Talibanese have been given X-Box by our enemy forces, and they've been practicing on Ghost Recon!

We need to stop making excuses, wake up and take affirmative action against, well, whoever they are.



Icarus said:


> Most often they are the one's neck deep in mud!


But at the same time, fit as well!

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## Emmie

K-Xeroid said:


> Lambey dnday wala jahaz ya Gol plate ku Girana hey , Done .



Dude very same lamba danda have been shoved up their arses

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## Peregrine

Couldn't help noticing that a lot of you underestimate these terrorists. I guess the guys behind 9/11 had this in mind ' oh look bara mota jahaz, lets enter samney walla sheeshay walla kumra and play with those buttons' on a serious note their strategies indicate that they are pretty damn smart and to think that they can't take the better of our armed forces is utter stupidity.


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## karan.1970

Bhai Zakir said:


> I must add the Indian perspective.
> 
> Indian news channels are not covering this attack on PAF airbase, news as big news.
> 
> So, it tells about the obsession.



I said it before in this thread.. This is almost a non news in India...


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## Imran Khan

Irfan Baloch said:


> no you cant
> 
> tell me what do you mean by saf walay fauji



in fact kaaly waaly fauji are SSG jin ki laal topi ho ge  

ab ye kaheen zaid hamid ko na samajh leen


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## Hyperion

karan.1970 said:


> I said it before in this thread.. This is almost a non news in India...


Yara, to be honest, you know why it is a non-news in India:

As the story is not _sensational_ enough! 

Is this what they might report:

* Talibans attacked the AF base, they all got WHACKED by the Pakistani commandos
* There was no loss of any aircraft? 

Now be honest and tell me, would that sell nice in India?

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## I M Sikander

*Good and Bad points of todays Attack:*

*Bad Points:
*1. Repeated attacks on military attacks (GHQ, Mehran and now Kamra) and the counting is still on.
2. Same on Kamra in similar manner as on GHQ and Mehran,( entry of terrorists from slum areas and Nullahs, wearing uniform, passed unchecked through three security barriers).
3. Absence of modern security equipment military installation (CCTV, motion sensor security, infra red barrier)et etc same 18th security style by javans and guards.
4. Terrorists having inside information regarding locations of sensitive military hardware.
5. Intelligence failure to counter any such attack.


*Some Good Points:*
1. The base commander Muhammad Azam leading from the front (unlike the coward Mehran base commander).
2. Unlike GHQ and Mehran attacks only one casulity of our Javan. (22 casulities in GHQ attack and 14 in Mehran base)
3. The terrorists were effectively neutralized within hour, much earlier as compared to GHQ and Mehran Base where the stand off lasted for 26 hours. 
4. No damage to military hardware like destruction of Orins in mehran.
5. The reduction in neutrilization time shows some improved counters measures keeping in view the lessons learnt from GHQ and Mehran base.


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## Psyxjen

This remains, for Pakistan, a 'tactical victory'.... The commandos executed their mission as well as they possibly could...

BUT, who is to say the same thing won't happen somewhere else tomorrow?

We need to firmly retaliate cripple their infrastructure, their capacity to organize... Otherwise, DESPITE any security measures we take, this will happen again, we might very well stop them, but with their suicidal tendencies, it is again *OUR* security personnel at risk.....

These illiterate *terrorists, are expendable*... Recruited from among thousands... Our commandos, are most definitely not!

I hope we decide on a clear response tailored to hand out justice...

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## Imran Khan

hakeemullah will be mad today like mad dog 

he was waiting for damage so his remaing money of this attack he recived . now after they failed no money 

he may bashing same i bash on staff . sab ke sab CHUUUTIYA hain aik bhi kam ka nhi saaly . 4-4 lakh ka kharcha ker ke in ki guns boms RPG khareedy thy saaly 4 ghanty bhi nhi lary na mard kaheen ke   

heeejroon ki fauj hai meri 

a skinny guy say - ustaad tum fikeer na kero main badla chukaoo ga

hakeemullh - aby chup saaly tery se bijli ka bil to chukaya nhi jata 

ab dekh lo mis call per miss call a rahi hai kya jawab doon in ko ?

ja yaar charas ka cigrrate bana 2-4 heavy mery liye . pakistani faujyoon ne meera jeena azaab bana dala hai .pata nhi kya khaty hain

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## meena24

Hyperion said:


> Yara, to be honest, you know why it is a non-news in India:
> 
> As the story is not _sensational_ enough!
> 
> Is this what they might report:
> 
> * Talibans attacked the AF base, they all got WHACKED by the Pakistani commandos
> * There was no loss of any aircraft?
> 
> Now be honest and tell me, would that sell nice in India?



*Yes of course * That is the reason it is not a news in Indian Television, but what i want to know is whether you people are giving the credit of this attack to *RAW * or not. Please be honest, If *yes*, If there is a future thread regarding Covert Operations of RAW, Please don't tell us that RAW has nothing to do with the attacks, If your answer is *No * please don't blame us for attacks that happen in your country.


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## I M Sikander

karan.1970 said:


> I said it before in this thread.. This is almost a non news in India...


May be not in the TV channel news but majority of kids are jumping madly in bharatrakshak forums with senseless comments.


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## Hyperion

meena24 said:


> *Yes of course * That is the reason it is not a news in Indian Television, but what i want to know is whether you people are giving the credit of this attack to *RAW * or not. Please be honest, If *yes*, If there is a future thread regarding Covert Operations of RAW, Please don't tell us that RAW has nothing to do with the attacks, If your answer is *No * please don't blame us for attacks that happen in your country.



This is a strategy forum and there is a covert war going on in Pakistan. Don't you agree? If yes, then how can you discount RA&W / Mosad / MI6 / CIA or for that matter anyone from a security equation.

If you can, then you don't belong in the wonderful world of PDF!


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## Moorkh

Mani2020 said:


> The biggest aircraft stationed there was il-78 and not erieye



their simple mind saw the big aircraft and decided it was a good target 

but i suppose the erieye is the more valuable aircraft among hte two


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## Areesh

Icarus said:


> The AWACs is fine, some splinters is all. Can be fixed in a day.



Hope you are true but Icarus are you saying this on some inside info you have? Can we consider it credible?


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## cloud_9

Windjammer said:


> At least you are not witnessing some ten twelve years old doing rounds on the streets of Pakistan encouraged by their teacher to shout slogans like...
> *
> "Gali gali mein shour hey.......India sala chour hey". !!!!*
> 
> Something we witnessed while there was still a fire fight taking place inside the Taj.


Looks like those children aren't children any more but they still remember the slogan their teacher's taught them........somehow in the course of time India has been interchanged with other words like #####*

* A look at the first page will tell you what there renewed priorities are
The Express Tribune &#8211; Latest Breaking Pakistan News, Business, Life, Style, Cricket, Videos, Comments


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## LURKER

Hyperion said:


> Yara, to be honest, you know why it is a non-news in India:
> 
> As the story is not _sensational_ enough!
> 
> Is this what they might report:
> 
> * Talibans attacked the AF base, they all got WHACKED by the Pakistani commandos
> * There was no loss of any aircraft?
> 
> Now be honest and tell me, would that sell nice in India?



local matters always sell better than international news in India. at this time there are many important social and political events happening in India ( ramdev's movement , exodus of NE people from south India ). 

BTW some news channels did show the news of the attack on Minhas base .


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## Najam Khan

Ranasikander said:


> *Good and Bad points of todays Attack:*
> 
> *Bad Points:
> *1. Repeated attacks on military attacks (GHQ, Mehran and now Kamra) and the counting is still on.
> 2. Same on Kamra in similar manner as on GHQ and Mehran,( entry of terrorists from slum areas and Nullahs, wearing uniform, passed unchecked through three security barriers).
> 3. *Absence of modern security equipment military installation (CCTV, motion sensor security, infra red barrier)et etc same 18th security style by javans and guards.*



Somewhat agree!. CCTV/IR Sensors should be placed but then comes the question how much you'll place. Its not a 1-2km boundary you are guarding. PAF need specialist soldiers with proper 'all time ready' gear, trained in guarding such vital installations. Placement of watch towers after each 50-70m is a good solution. 



Ranasikander said:


> 4. *Terrorists having inside information regarding locations of sensitive military hardware.*
> 5. Intelligence failure to counter any such attack.


Yours truly Google Earth...the pro version.



Ranasikander said:


> *Some Good Points:*
> 1. *The base commander Muhammad Azam leading from the front (unlike the coward Mehran base commander).*
> 2. Unlike GHQ and Mehran attacks only one casulity of our Javan. (22 casulities in GHQ attack and 14 in Mehran base)


It was a bold thing to do. He is a brave officer..on a side note, he and rest of officers of the base has to face the investigation.



Ranasikander said:


> 3. *The terrorists were effectively neutralized within hour, much earlier as compared to GHQ and Mehran Base where the stand off lasted for 26 hours. *
> 4. No damage to military hardware like destruction of Orins in mehran.
> 5. The reduction in neutrilization time shows some improved counters measures keeping in view the lessons learnt from GHQ and Mehran base.



All incidents are different from each other. GHQ was a hostage-rescue scenario, In Mehran the terrorists grabbed vital positions and were in better position to fight. In Minhas they didn't achieved such success because the base security was alerted within moments on the intrusion. Credits goes to the soldier in watch tower, God bless his soul.

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## faisaljaffery

Pakistan needs to wipe out the root cause of terrorism and all those channels are required to be blocked from where these terrorists are getting funding and weapons. Dont know from where they are getting funding but from whereever they are getting that needs to be closed at every cost.


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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> The only logical explanation from the conspiracy minded 'hum-watan' could be:
> 
> The Talibanese have been given X-Box by our enemy forces, and they've been practicing on Ghost Recon!
> 
> We need to stop making excuses, wake up and take affirmative action against, well, whoever they are.



Granted that we mustn't give in to conspiracy theories but at the same time we mustn't make light of the situation either ! I think some very pertinent questions could arise out of this : 

1) How deep is their infiltration of the Pakistan Armed Forces ? 

2) Can we afford to borrow a page from ISAF's book and bomb the sh*t out of them and their sympathizers ? Or would doing so alienate even the gullible ones into going completely over to the Taliban Camp ? And at that can we economically sustain it and the ensuing development that must follow every military engagement for anything to have a lasting effect ?

3) How in God's name is the TTP so well versed in military strategy ? How can they identity targets, measure up their significance, lay-out seemingly effective plans and then execute them with such impunity ? 

4) What compelled them to change their engagement strategy from recklessly attacking some of the more peripheral military bases or outposts alongside the Afghan border into taking out strategic military assets well into Pakistani territory ? How has their strategy been streamlined so well into something a lot more effective, bold and well-thought out ? 

5) If the TTP can pull off incidents like today that what does it say about the assertion that 'we've broken their back in the Tribal Areas, in Swat and other parts of KP ?'. If this is the handiwork of a spent, completely routed organization then I wonder what they'd be otherwise ? Or could it be that it was all just a bluff for them to hold out for as long as they could in those engagement so that they could move out as much of their assets into Afghanistan as possible ?

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## I M Sikander

meena24 said:


> *Yes of course * That is the reason it is not a news in Indian Television, but what i want to know is whether you people are giving the credit of this attack to *RAW * or not. Please be honest, If *yes*, If there is a future thread regarding Covert Operations of RAW, Please don't tell us that RAW has nothing to do with the attacks, If your answer is *No * please don't blame us for attacks that happen in your country.



Dude its a its Tit for Tat. 
You Blame us and we blame you, Nothing new. Infact we blame RAW much lesser as compared to indian blaming of ISI.


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## S_O_C_O_M

just got wind of this attack. damn not again. Has not the security establishment learned anything from the Mehran Naval Base Attack?

They call this a success that Pak Army defeated the militants. *It is a FAILURE. A success would be if the attackers were stopped before being able to breach the perimeter.*

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## Hyperion

Armstrong said:


> Granted that we mustn't give in to conspiracy theories but at the same time we mustn't make light of the situation either ! I think some very pertinent questions could arise out of this :
> 
> 1) How deep is their infiltration of the Pakistan Armed Forces ?
> 
> 2) Can we afford to borrow a page from ISAF's book and bomb the sh*t out of them and their sympathizers ? Or would doing so alienate even the gullible ones into going completely over to the Taliban Camp ? And at that can we economically sustain it and the ensuing development that must follow every military engagement for anything to have a lasting effect ?
> 
> 3) How in God's name is the TTP so well versed in military strategy ? How can they identity targets, measure up their significance, lay-out seemingly effective plans and then execute them with such impunity ?
> 
> 4) What compelled them to change their engagement strategy from recklessly attacking some of the more peripheral military bases or outposts alongside the Afghan border into taking out strategic military assets well into Pakistani territory ? How has their strategy been streamlined so well into something a lot more effective, bold and well-thought out ?
> 
> 5) If the TTP can pull off incidents like today that what does it say about the assertion that 'we've broken their back in the Tribal Areas, in Swat and other parts of KP ?'. If this is the handiwork of a spent, completely routed organization then I wonder what they'd be otherwise ? Or could it be that it was all just a bluff for them to hold out for as long as they could in those engagement so that they could move out as much of their assets into Afghanistan as possible ?



You'd make a perfect analyst, but a so-so strategist

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## TOPGUN

Ok i think now it's to close this thread just like the story and operation has been closed we gave enough fun to these hateful indian trolls whom have no respect for anyone not even for human lives MODS plzz close this thread why are we tolerating such disrespect from people we care nothing about pl close this thread enough of these dumb a$$ trolls.

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## Mughal-Prince

Haaa!!! ... Band Buja diya HARAMZADOON KA ...

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## Moorkh

Ranasikander said:


> *Good and Bad points of todays Attack:*
> 
> *Bad Points:
> *1. Repeated attacks on military attacks (GHQ, Mehran and now Kamra) and the counting is still on.
> 2. Same on Kamra in similar manner as on GHQ and Mehran,( entry of terrorists from slum areas and Nullahs, wearing uniform, passed unchecked through three security barriers).
> 3. Absence of modern security equipment military installation (CCTV, motion sensor security, infra red barrier)et etc same 18th security style by javans and guards.
> 4. Terrorists having inside information regarding locations of sensitive military hardware.
> 5. Intelligence failure to counter any such attack.
> 
> 
> *Some Good Points:*
> 1. The base commander Muhammad Azam leading from the front (unlike the coward Mehran base commander).
> 2. Unlike GHQ and Mehran attacks only one casulity of our Javan. (22 casulities in GHQ attack and 14 in Mehran base)
> 3. The terrorists were effectively neutralized within hour, much earlier as compared to GHQ and Mehran Base where the stand off lasted for 26 hours.
> 4. No damage to military hardware like destruction of Orins in mehran.
> 5. The reduction in neutrilization time shows some improved counters measures keeping in view the lessons learnt from GHQ and Mehran base.



One could say that Pakistan is learning to fight these terrorists. Just to add to the good things about this attack

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> You'd make a perfect analyst, but a so-so strategist



Huuunh...*Rommel* himself learned at my feet !

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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> I said it before in this thread.. This is almost a non news in India...



Ya, just the Indian Army Chief goes out of his way to give a statement. 

Indian defence bases well protected: Army chief Gen Bikram Singh - The Times of India

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## Peaceful Civilian

We should prepare our self for more attacks specially about new offensive in Waziristan.
*After offensive operation in waziristan, i doubt peace in next election rallies.*
We openly announced for offensive operation which is risky tactic, Some terrorist will run in Afghanistan, but They have time and they can expand in many cities for revenge of operation. 
There is no middle place.
*Go for full offensive till last death of Taliban. Taliban will again use their children and wife as civilian cover, World media will again roar. But we need full offensive operation including Killing of Taliban children is necessary because if we leave them, they will take revenge and will become great threat for peace.
*
If we does half offensive then country will burn.

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## Hyperion

Armstrong said:


> Huuunh...*Rommel* himself learned at my feet !


LMAO  

_Let's now pray together - Mods bhaio aur behno: Hamaray gunah, trolling aur talkh kalami ko maaf kar do. Hum dono, sedhay honay ki buhut koshish kar rahay hain.
_
Cross our hearts and hope to die!

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## Safriz

Hyperion said:


> LMAO


 
You do sound like a terrorist advisor yourself


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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> You do sound like a terrorist advisor yourself


And. You're back


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## meena24

Peaceful Civlian said:


> We should prepare our self for more attacks specially about new offensive in Waziristan.
> *After offensive operation in waziristan, i doubt peace in next election rallies.*
> We openly announced for offensive operation which is risky tactic, Some terrorist will run in Afghanistan, but They have time and they can expand in many cities for revenge of operation.
> There is no middle place.
> *Go for full offensive till last death of Taliban. Taliban will again use their children and wife as civilian cover, World media will again roar. But we need full offensive operation including Killing of Taliban children is necessary because if we leave them, they will take revenge and will become great threat for peace.
> *
> If we does half offensive then country will burn.



This is true, but i doubt whether such a operation will happen, Because as of Now Pakistan is facing Al-qaeda, TTP, Islamic movement of uzbekistan, Lashkar e jahanghvi. If they start a new offensive in North waziristan, They will face Haqqani, Hafiz gul bahadhur , I am not sure regarding Mullah Nazir faction.


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## karan.1970

blain2 said:


> These are views and as such should not be suppressed. Nobody here knows anything factually and as such many are postulating.



But I guess any direct accusations should be accompanied with some tangible proof more solid than "how did the illiterate guy know which was the most expensive plane on the base" ... Just like Indian accusations of Pakistan's complicity are brutally questioned (despite having a living and talking Pakistani citizen who was caught in the act), I guess same scrutiny should be applied to accusations of Indian involvement in such attacks...

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## clmeta

There is one answer to all your questions.
The Talibans have an alliance with Al-Qaida. Al Qaida are master planners. (9/11 proves it)
Also, some of these fighters are Let veterans who have also received training from Pakistan army. A case in point is the Ilyas Kashmiri group.



Armstrong said:


> Granted that we mustn't give in to conspiracy theories but at the same time we mustn't make light of the situation either ! I think some very pertinent questions could arise out of this :
> 
> 1) How deep is their infiltration of the Pakistan Armed Forces ?
> 
> 2) Can we afford to borrow a page from ISAF's book and bomb the sh*t out of them and their sympathizers ? Or would doing so alienate even the gullible ones into going completely over to the Taliban Camp ? And at that can we economically sustain it and the ensuing development that must follow every military engagement for anything to have a lasting effect ?
> 
> 3) How in God's name is the TTP so well versed in military strategy ? How can they identity targets, measure up their significance, lay-out seemingly effective plans and then execute them with such impunity ?
> 
> 4) What compelled them to change their engagement strategy from recklessly attacking some of the more peripheral military bases or outposts alongside the Afghan border into taking out strategic military assets well into Pakistani territory ? How has their strategy been streamlined so well into something a lot more effective, bold and well-thought out ?
> 
> 5) If the TTP can pull off incidents like today that what does it say about the assertion that 'we've broken their back in the Tribal Areas, in Swat and other parts of KP ?'. If this is the handiwork of a spent, completely routed organization then I wonder what they'd be otherwise ? Or could it be that it was all just a bluff for them to hold out for as long as they could in those engagement so that they could move out as much of their assets into Afghanistan as possible ?


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## Hobo1

> _Locals in the vicinity of bases should be trained to be vigilant. Paid even for their services. Until the local population is brought on board these attacks will not be stopped. _


 Heard this on Pakistani Forum
Something very simpler people say in India but that is about National park in order to protect animals from poaching. 
Looks like Pakistan is fast becoming a Jungle. 
Kiyani should retire and time to bring back Musharraf, during his tenure economy strong and Pakistan was much safer.

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## clmeta

You have set very high standards. No army in the world can pass your stringent criteria.


S_O_C_O_M said:


> just got wind of this attack. damn not again. Has not the security establishment learned anything from the Mehran Naval Base Attack?
> 
> They call this a success that Pak Army defeated the militants. *It is a FAILURE. A success would be if the attackers were stopped before being able to breach the perimeter.*

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## rockstarIN

Windjammer said:


> Ya, just the Indian Army Chief goes out of his way to give a statement.
> 
> Indian defence bases well protected: Army chief Gen Bikram Singh - The Times of India



After your navy base attack, we immediately tightened the security in all bases/navy areas.


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## clmeta

Can you give a link for this?



RazPaK said:


> Indians just fired a mortar on a house in Sialkot killing several men and women. The bhartis are putting on pressure.
> 
> Pressure is coming from all sides.


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## meena24

Hobo1 said:


> Heard this on Pakistani Forum
> Something very simpler people say in India but that is about National park in order to protect animals from poaching.
> Looks like Pakistan is fast becoming a Jungle.
> Kiyani should retire and time to bring back Musharraf, during his tenure economy strong and Pakistan was much safer.



I can under stand why you are saying this? But still what you said is True!!!!!


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## jaiind

how these attacks were happened on high security areas in pakistan without any internal help in their bases??


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## karan.1970

Hyperion said:


> Yara, to be honest, you know why it is a non-news in India:
> 
> As the story is not _sensational_ enough!
> 
> Is this what they might report:
> 
> * Talibans attacked the AF base, they all got WHACKED by the Pakistani commandos
> * There was no loss of any aircraft?
> 
> Now be honest and tell me, would that sell nice in India?



A failed operation is never a big news.. You are right.. If this op would have splashed 2-3 planes, then the media would have latched on to it with a nuclear safety angle.. But still it would not have made it to popular news. Honestly, most Indians do not care about what's happening in Pakistan..

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## krash

Armstrong said:


> Granted that we mustn't give in to conspiracy theories but at the same time we mustn't make light of the situation either ! I think some very pertinent questions could arise out of this :
> 
> 1) How deep is their infiltration of the Pakistan Armed Forces ?
> 
> 2) Can we afford to borrow a page from ISAF's book and bomb the sh*t out of them and their sympathizers ? Or would doing so alienate even the gullible ones into going completely over to the Taliban Camp ? And at that can we economically sustain it and the ensuing development that must follow every military engagement for anything to have a lasting effect ?
> 
> 3) How in God's name is the TTP so well versed in military strategy ? How can they identity targets, measure up their significance, lay-out seemingly effective plans and then execute them with such impunity ?
> 
> 4) What compelled them to change their engagement strategy from recklessly attacking some of the more peripheral military bases or outposts alongside the Afghan border into taking out strategic military assets well into Pakistani territory ? How has their strategy been streamlined so well into something a lot more effective, bold and well-thought out ?
> 
> 5) If the TTP can pull off incidents like today that what does it say about the assertion that 'we've broken their back in the Tribal Areas, in Swat and other parts of KP ?'. If this is the handiwork of a spent, completely routed organization then I wonder what they'd be otherwise ? Or could it be that it was all just a bluff for them to hold out for as long as they could in those engagement so that they could move out as much of their assets into Afghanistan as possible ?



1) I don't even know where this question came from....

2) What needs to be done is being done. They are being bombed and the ensuing development is being carried out step by step. 

3) Simple. How do you know of the significance of the said targets? Execution with impunity? My unattractive bottom! They got slaughtered.

4) They wanted to make a big statement. Happens when desperate. Blowing those aircraft would not have served their purpose what so ever. Bold but out of desperation. Arming 9 guys to the teeth and sending them in to get slaughtered is hardly a measuring factor in their effectiveness or them having streamlined anything. Also keep in mind that this is not a conventional military war across borders. These people come from within Pakistan. Its no feat hiding 9 men amongst the civilian population. 

5) This is what routed forces do. They hide, ambush and retreat. But we didn't let them retreat did we? A spent orginization would send in 9 guys. A strong one would have at least a hundred. Keep this in mind: no one can neutralize a threat to it's military installations before it happens when the enemy comes from within. Read what has happened to countless American bases in Afghanistan. Also there are still parts in Waziristan which are TTP strongholds. No one has denied that.


For heaven's sake. I could arm 9 men and send them running in.


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## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> Ya, just the Indian Army Chief goes out of his way to give a statement.
> 
> Indian defence bases well protected: Army chief Gen Bikram Singh - The Times of India



.. the level of comprehension bankruptcy never fails to amaze me..

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## Devil Soul

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has released images of the militants who attacked the Kamara Airbase on Thursday morning.

Nine militants were killed after security forces launched an operation against the attackers of the Kamra Airbase.

Several of the images released have been blurred while some could not be published due to their graphic nature.


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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> .. the level of comprehension bankruptcy never fails to amaze me..



The cheap banter will get you no where, spending all day on this very thread.....hell there must be another word than OBSESSION.

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## Devil Soul



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## Mosamania

My condolences to the family of the Shaheed, and congratulations Pakistani Special Forces for a successful operation.

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## BATMAN

Cheetah786 said:


> Oldman1 Batman is a TTP and other Wahhabi terrorist sympathizer you are wasting your time arguing with him.


 
I will answer you on this one after Ramadan.


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## Safriz

The Big Question still remains unanswered...
Is the SAAB AWACS safe or damaged?

If its damaged then i regret to say that the terrorists have won here....


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## Patriot

Safriz said:


> The Big Question still remains unanswered...
> Is the SAAB AWACS safe or damaged?
> 
> If its damaged then i regret to say that the terrorists have won here....


AWACS are safe - IL-78 Refueler Air Craft was slightly damaged.


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## revojam

Safriz said:


> The Big Question still remains unanswered...
> Is the SAAB AWACS safe or damaged?
> 
> If its damaged then i regret to say that the terrorists have won here....



Terrorists already won , with their worthless lives they managed to give a point to foreigners on Pakistan nukes are not safe claims

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## Safriz

Patriot said:


> AWACS are safe - IL-78 Refueler Air Craft was slightly damaged.



and your source is?
or reason of reaching this conclusion as source cannot be provided always..


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## airmarshal

revojam said:


> Terrorists already won , with their worthless lives they managed to give a point to foreigners on Pakistan nukes are not safe claims



This is what the western media is reporting right now. Victory of armed forces was insignificant. The terrorist wanted to send a message and they did it.

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## Safriz

revojam said:


> Terrorists already won , they managed to give a point to foreigners on Pakistan nukes are not safe claims



Actually in that aspect they failed,as the incident shows that despite such a well planned,well resourced attack by highly trained Terrorists who even had Night vision and precise intelligence...Pakistani soldiers killed them all in a few hours..

TTP doesn't have night vision..TTP doesn't have such high level of Precision attack training..All they can do is go to a crowded place and blow themselves up..

so yes foreign hand is involved.



airmarshal said:


> This is what the western media is reporting right now. Victory of armed forces was insignificant. The terrorist wanted to send a message and they did it.



As they say..Haters gona hate....

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## SamranAli

@Pakistani members plz dont feed trolls.

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## QADRI

revojam said:


> Terrorists already won , with their worthless lives they managed to give a point to foreigners on Pakistan nukes are not safe claims



Exactly bro the whole game is to show that Pak Nukes are not safe. I think those who try to prove this should take a look on their own history first rather than pointing their fingers on Islamic Pak Bombs.


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## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> *The cheap banter*


As I said.. Comprehension Bankruptcy.. 



Windjammer said:


> spending all day on this very thread.....hell there must be another word than OBSESSION.



Yes there is .. My love for Pakistan

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## Safriz

All those denying foreign hand...
Can you explain how TTP only brings out Night vision goggles in Mehran base attack and Kamra base attack?If that was TTP as you all insist...
If TTP has such high tech gear they should use it everywhere...?

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## Peregrine

revojam said:


> Terrorists already won , with their worthless lives they managed to give a point to foreigners on Pakistan nukes are not safe claims


So going by this logic why havn't NATO withdrawn it's nuclear assets from Turkey? Dont make me to go into details about PKK.


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## FFlame87

Let me rest assure you all the Pakistan's nukes are not only safe but even the defence officials don't know about their exact location. Only officers with very high level of security clearance are allowed in and out of the establishments. 

But that doesn't matter, people who claim our nukes are not guarded well, I want to ask you a simple question. Leave US and other countries alone, just take the terrorists groups within Pakistan. If the nukes are really not properly guarded then until now the terrorirsts would have had their hands on them. 

And just so some noobs in this forum know, nuke is not assembled in one place and nukes are only empty rocket casings, the actual nuclear payload is assembled at the time of attack and they are assembled at such rapid speeds and in so much secrecy that no one can get to them in the right time. 

Nuclear bombs are out of the question. US or any other country can't get their hands on them. Trust me on this. And if one day (may Allah forgive) we find out that US or some other country got their hands on PAK nukes then it would be a corruption case at a very high level, most probably on a presedential level.

Guys don't take Pakistan Defence Services so lightly, we don't like to boast about our achievements and strengths but we are more than capable of handling almost any country in the world.

I would also like to add, Abdul Kadeer Khan invested in Nuclear Technology in the time of corruption, sanctions and terrorists lurking around and he succeeded in delivering such a large achievement within a nation who is financially in debt. Then just imagine if Pakistan is given good amount of resources and corruption is removed for at least 10 years, we can do miracles by the help of Allah.

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## RKhan

Safriz said:


> All those denying foreign hand...
> Can you explain how TTP only brings out Night vision goggles in Mehran base attack and Kamra base attack?If that was TTP as you all insist...
> If TTP has such high tech gear they should use it everywhere...?



Have you been to Darra? You can get anything there.

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## Safriz

RKhan said:


> Have you been to Darra? You can get anything there.



Dont want to say too much but yes i been to darra many times..and they cant replicate electronics..
They are masters of replicating any mechanical weapon but not optics and electronics...

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## manojb

Safriz said:


> All those denying foreign hand...
> Can you explain how TTP only brings out Night vision goggles in Mehran base attack and Kamra base attack?If that was TTP as you all insist...
> If TTP has such high tech gear they should use it everywhere...?


Ttp also has special forces! As someone mentioned they r not rag tag. Note that they have bigger ambition of establishing taliban state in Pak. they will continue fight even after nato wirhdraws from afgan. You may say its wet dream, but they do believe so.

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## Mani2020

Icarus said:


> The AWACs is fine, some splinters is all. Can be fixed in a day.


 
Thanks to ALLAH (SWT)

Is there any other aircraft that got damaged?

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## airmarshal

Safriz said:


> Actually in that aspect they failed,as the incident shows that despite such a well planned,well resourced attack by highly trained Terrorists who even had Night vision and precise intelligence...Pakistani soldiers killed them all in a few hours..
> 
> TTP doesn't have night vision..TTP doesn't have such high level of Precision attack training..All they can do is go to a crowded place and blow themselves up..
> 
> so yes foreign hand is involved.
> 
> 
> 
> As they say..Haters gona hate....



Why fellow Pakistanis dont understand one simple point. The idea is just to attack. Once attacked, its reported as the country is under attack, the security forces are under attack and nuclear weapons in this environment are not 'safe'. 

Consider another scenario. Its all perception management. A bunch of terrorists attack the perimeters of Kahuta. They might not be able to get in. Nuclear weapons might not be there at all. But try to understand the symbolic value. The reporting will be like - 'Pakistan's nuclear weapons under attack'. 

And there you go. Every Tom, Dick and Harry in this world will start barking about weapons beings unsafe, Pakistan being failed state, an irresponsible nuclear state .. Blah Blah Blah.

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## Safriz

manojb said:


> Ttp also has special forces! As someone mentioned they r not rag tag. Note that they have bigger ambition of establishing taliban state in Pak. they will continue fight even after nato wirhdraws from afgan. You may say its wet dream, but they do believe so.



Next you will claims they have nuclear subs


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## BATMAN

Safriz said:


> All those denying foreign hand...
> Can you explain how TTP only brings out Night vision goggles in Mehran base attack and Kamra base attack?If that was TTP as you all insist...
> If TTP has such high tech gear they should use it everywhere...?



Not to mention Tamil movies being downloaded in border areas of Pakistan!!!!!!!

I wonder how media will tomorrow present answer to this riddle!

I still remember the little girls interview, who survived in 'westridge' mosque!
She said scumbags were shouting while shooting 'in ki nasal ko khatam kardo'
Now this is extreme hate against the inhabitants of the land, you can't argue it with any twist.

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## mylovepakistan

Mani2020 said:


> Thanks to ALLAH (SWT)
> 
> Is there any aircraft that got damaged?



a few of bullets might have penetrated in IL-78,

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## S.M.R

airmarshal said:


> Why fellow Pakistanis dont understand one simple point. The idea is just to attack. Once attacked, its reported as the country is under attack, the security forces are under attack and nuclear weapons in this environment are not 'safe'.
> 
> Consider another scenario. Its all perception management. A bunch of terrorists attack the perimeters of Kahuta. They might not be able to get in. Nuclear weapons might not be there at all. But try to understand the symbolic value. The reporting will be like - 'Pakistan's nuclear weapons under attack'.
> 
> And there you go. Every Tom, Dick and Harry in this world will start barking about weapons beings unsafe, Pakistan being failed state, an irresponsible nuclear state .. Blah Blah Blah.


 
Symbolic value can be there, but were they able to achieve? No.

Like they damaged our PC3 orions, that was a real damage. But now they tried and got defeated.

The question is, where they are getting those sophisticated weapons from?

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## Safriz

Inquiry board formed to probe Kamra attack,8/16/2012 10:28:10 PM

Pakistan Air Force has formed a high level inquiry board to probe Thursday late night attack on Kamra Airbase. Security of the installations of Air Force has been beefed up.

PAF Chief Air Chief Marshal TAhir Rafiq Butt presided over the high level meeting in Islamabad. The meeting discussed different issues including militants attack on PAF Base Minhas and on time retaliation of security personnel.

PAF chief ordered to tighten security of all installations of air force. He also directed to take further security steps after immediately reviewing security situation.

The meeting formed an inquiry board which will probe all aspects of the incident.

Meanwhile, Defence Minister Naveed Qamar has directed Civil Aviation Authority and ASF to beef up security of all air ports. The minister also made a telephonic contact with Air force chief and discussed the attack on Kamran base.

After the incident, security of all installations of armed forces and buildings have been tightened.


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## W.11

FFlame87 said:


> Let me rest assure you all the Pakistan's nukes are not only safe but even the defence officials don't know about their exact location. Only officers with very high level of security clearance are allowed in and out of the establishments.
> 
> But that doesn't matter, people who claim our nukes are not guarded well, I want to ask you a simple question. Leave US and other countries alone, just take the terrorists groups within Pakistan. If the nukes are really not properly guarded then until now the terrorirsts would have had their hands on them.



i think now US will be able to better put emphases on their warning of alleged unsafe nukes of pakistan, doesnt matter if they are or not

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## imrankhan7250

Mr. COAS react and react fast. hit them hard and sow your fear in their heart. 
What a pitty, a bankrupt nation is financing his fauj to defend them, but they are unable even to defend themselves.
Why should we raise our walls because of their fear, why dont they raise their walls because of our fear.
Hit em hard and sow your fear in their heart. This is the lesson of today i want to convey to our fauj.

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## Awesome

Ok IL-78 didn't get a direct hit, some shrapnel got hit when an RPG fell close to it. All in all its in good condition. It was just reported in Kal Tak on Express News.

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## W.11

S.M.R said:


> Symbolic value can be there, but were they able to achieve? No.
> 
> Like they damaged our PC3 orions, that was a real damage. But now they tried and got defeated.
> 
> The question is, where they are getting those sophisticated weapons from?



better question is there is a mole in our security who is selling out our security secrets blaming taliban is not the solution

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## laiqs@mi

Safriz said:


> All those denying foreign hand...
> Can you explain how TTP only brings out Night vision goggles in Mehran base attack and Kamra base attack?If that was TTP as you all insist...
> If TTP has such high tech gear they should use it everywhere...?



101% agree
i would add to that 
if TTP have this high tech then that would have been nightmare for pakistan. 
because they are able to penetrate or attack places like Mehran or kamra then other places which have no that high security would have been peace of cake for them. they havn't attack any other place with high tech. only when it comes to a planed attack which involve satellite imagery. so it is very childish to say that ttp can arrange this type of attack.

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## W.11

RKhan said:


> Have you been to Darra? You can get anything there.



they can make good advanced weapons, but question is where they get high level training?


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## Bobby

AWACS are badly damaged but not fully destroyed......rest is fine

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## Awesome

Salute to the brave sacrifice by the soldier just identified as Asif.

Notably also to Air commodore Azam Khan who led the operation to repulse the attack.

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## Safriz

mylovepakistan said:


> a few of bullets might have penetrated in IL-78,



The terrorists entered the premises from the rear boundary wall,and the IL-78 was parked in plain sight there....It was broadcaster live on news channels....about 1.5 Kilometers inside of the boundary wall.
They could have fired a few RPGs on IL-78 and destroyed it but either they couldn't or didn't...
This shows the target specific nature of this terrorist operation..They were after a certain target..It was a surgical strike,not a yaboo from wiziristan attack...
The damage to IL-78 must have been sustained during the gun fight and wasn't targeted by attackers....

It is worth mentioning that IL-78 was a big fat easy target right in front of the terrorists entry point...why in the world they wont destroy it?

Because they didn't want to consume time and resources on a target they weren't assigned....



Bobby said:


> AWACS are badly damaged but not fully destroyed......rest is fine



and what invisible voices told you that?

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## Awesome

Bobby said:


> AWACS are badly damaged but not fully destroyed......rest is fine



No, AWACS, didn't receive any damage. Overall no equipment (from the narrative IL-78 would need some paint job only) was damaged however an irreplaceable life was lost!

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## Safriz

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3317451 said:


> they can make good advanced weapons, but question is where they get high level training?



correction..
they can make advanced mechanical weapons...cant do monkeys about electronics...
and night vision goggles are all electronics and optical about which darra knows not..

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## S.M.R

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3317445 said:


> better question is there is a mole in our security who is selling out our security secrets blaming taliban is not the solution


 
These types of people are there in every army. Like ISI knows better than an ordinary indian army officer about their strategic assets. Spying is world phenomenon. But these type of weapons / equipments are not easily available for potential terrortists.


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## Peaceful Civilian

Terrorist were very close to main targets. They damaged a aircraft directly or indirectly, How weapons entered there.
They were only 9 terrorist, if they could 20 - 25 terrorist, then you can imagine............ 
There are still laps in security....

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## W.11

and where they get night vision and training to use them as happened in mehran base? 

the training to hit the target with expert gun use?


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## Awesome

Safriz said:


> It is worth mentioning that IL-78 was a big fat easy target right in front of the terrorists entry point...why in the world they wont destroy it?



Let's just pray all our enemies are dumbasses like the terrorists. JF-17s can be replaced easily as they are homegrown, IL-78 are our prized possessions.

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## karan.1970

Safriz said:


> The terrorists entered the premises from the rear boundary wall,and the IL-78 was parked in plain sight there....It was broadcaster live on news channels....about 1.5 Kilometers inside of the boundary wall.
> They could have fired a few RPGs on IL-78 and destroyed it but either they couldn't or didn't...
> This shows the target specific nature of this terrorist operation..They were after a certain target..It was a surgical strike,not a yaboo from wiziristan attack...
> The damage to IL-78 must have been sustained during the gun fight and wasn't targeted by attackers....
> 
> It is worth mentioning that IL-78 was a big fat easy target right in front of the terrorists entry point...why in the world they wont destroy it?
> 
> Because they didn't want to consume time and resources on a target they weren't assigned....



All your conjectures hold true for an assumption of this being a false flag operation by ISI to justify its impending NW operation to the local population..

Just like you are painting a scenario of a foreign ( with an added focus on India) hand using these conjectures, I can paint a false flag operation scenario with the same ones.. The IL 76 was not destroyed because they were told to not destroy any major equipment since this engagement was supposed to be just a smoke screen to fool the local population and ISI did not want any major loss to the PAF. 

See, how easy it is to stitch together a bunch of conjectures and come up with a fairy tale of your choice

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## S.M.R

Safriz said:


> correction..
> they can make advanced mechanical weapons...cant do monkeys about electronics...
> and night vision goggles are all electronics and optical about which darra knows not..


 
Night vision goggles are available in darra?? Never saw there.


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## laiqs@mi

sigh of relief after knowing that All is well. Alhamdolillah
May ALLAH help us in these difficult days. and death to takferis and there supporter.


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## Safriz

S.M.R said:


> These types of people are there in every army. Like ISI knows better than an ordinary indian army officer about their strategic assets. Spying is world phenomenon. But these type of weapons / equipments are not easily available for potential terrortists.



I wont say that a mole was there...
Intelligence was intercepted of the attack at least 4 months ago,because 4 months ago the locals noticed heightened security around the Air base and many people who could freely go in and out of the premises were barred 4 months ago..

But at the same time it can be said with much surety that the terrorists were in the area outside the base for some months as their intelligence was also very precise...

They conducted a precision attack..but like wise the retaliation by SSG was very accurate and they were dealt with almost at their entry point.
The last terrorist was found and killed at around 7 am PST hidden in the trees not far from their entry point that was the rear boundary wall...and IL-78 was parked all the time in his plane sight..Yet he made no attempt to destroy it.



S.M.R said:


> Night vision goggles are available in darra?? Never saw there.



You either didn't read my comment or didn't understand...
Read again



karan.1970 said:


> *All your conjectures hold true for an assumption of this being a false flag operation by ISI to justify its impending NW operation to the local population..*
> 
> Just like you are painting a scenario of a foreign ( with an added focus on India) hand using these conjectures, I can paint a false flag operation scenario with the same ones.. The IL 76 was not destroyed because they were told to not destroy any major equipment since this engagement was supposed to be just a smoke screen to fool the local population and ISI did not want any major loss to the PAF.
> 
> See, how easy it is to stitch together a bunch of conjectures and come up with a fairy tale of your choice



Read this..

No operation in North Waziristan, says Core Commander ,8/16/2012 10:46:25 PM

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## S.M.R

karan.1970 said:


> All your conjectures hold true for an assumption of this being a false flag operation by ISI to justify its impending NW operation to the local population..
> 
> Just like you are painting a scenario of a foreign ( with an added focus on India) hand using these conjectures, I can paint a false flag operation scenario with the same ones.. The IL 76 was not destroyed because they were told to not destroy any major equipment since this engagement was supposed to be just a smoke screen to fool the local population and ISI did not want any major loss to the PAF.
> 
> See, how easy it is to stitch together a bunch of conjectures and come up with a fairy tale of your choice


 
Do you really think that PA needs to justify its own people for ANY operation in NW. Further, were there any false flag operations before op rah e rast and nijaat.

The first rule of investigation: who is the beneficiary of such kind of loss.

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## karan.1970

Safriz said:


> Read this..
> 
> No operation in North Waziristan, says Core Commander ,8/16/2012 10:46:25 PM



Thats the idea..Go thru this thread and see how many pakistani members are advocating a NW operation now.. That's exactly what PA/ISI would want in the scenario painted by me.. They themselves would not go for the operation but the citizens would demand that they do...

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## BATMAN

FFlame87 said:


> Let me rest assure you all the Pakistan's nukes are not only safe but even the defence officials don't know about their exact location. Only officers with very high level of security clearance are allowed in and out of the establishments.
> 
> But that doesn't matter, people who claim our nukes are not guarded well, I want to ask you a simple question. Leave US and other countries alone, just take the terrorists groups within Pakistan. If the nukes are really not properly guarded then until now the terrorirsts would have had their hands on them.
> 
> And just so some noobs in this forum know, nuke is not assembled in one place and nukes are only empty rocket casings, the actual nuclear payload is assembled at the time of attack and they are assembled at such rapid speeds and in so much secrecy that no one can get to them in the right time.
> 
> Nuclear bombs are out of the question. US or any other country can't get their hands on them. Trust me on this. And if one day (may Allah forgive) we find out that US or some other country got their hands on PAK nukes then it would be a corruption case at a very high level, most probably on a presedential level.
> 
> Guys don't take Pakistan Defence Services so lightly, we don't like to boast about our achievements and strengths but we are more than capable of handling almost any country in the world.
> 
> I would also like to add, Abdul Kadeer Khan invested in Nuclear Technology in the time of corruption, sanctions and terrorists lurking around and he succeeded in delivering such a large achievement within a nation who is financially in debt. Then just imagine if Pakistan is given good amount of resources and corruption is removed for at least 10 years, we can do miracles by the help of Allah.



I'm not going to arguing with you and i agree Pak army is a serious fighting machine but but allow me to say you failed to chalk out a safe security perimeter around your icons.

I do not know how it feels to be professional security guy, but allow me to build a security perimeter, only with instruments and dogs, i challenge best of Pakistan soldier will not be able to step across, where i draw line.
Here we are talking about few perpetrators!
I'm sorry sir, i have the feeling since Musharraf left we lost the far sight and we are merely limited to a fighting machine.
It is absolutely not necessary to wait for Zardari's order.
You lost the morale what you had after Salala attack, a well-known political hijacker has once again successfully hijacked the popular sentiments.
I can bet Pasha would have never shook hand and smiled at some sorry statement.
Have you realized 'cold start' is warming up and it will warm FURTHER MORE.
Draw them out.. don't let them draw you out.
Surround them don't let them surround you.


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## S.M.R

Safriz said:


> You either didn't read my comment or didn't understand...
> Read again


 
i read your reply, actually i was pointing to the poster who said everything is available in darra. You quoted his post and i wrongly quoted yours.

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## karan.1970

S.M.R said:


> Do you really think that PA needs to justify its own people for ANY operation in NW. Further, were there any false flag operations before op rah e rast and nijaat.
> 
> The first rule of investigation: who is the beneficiary of such kind of loss.



NW is a different ball game. PA is officially on record, denying any NW operation. Now to tow the American line and undertake that operation, they need a viable justification. What better than an attack by Taliban on the Military assets that most Pakistanis hold dearer than their lives...


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## BATMAN

Safriz said:


> No operation in North Waziristan, says Core Commander ,8/16/2012 10:46:25 PM



Very good... draw them out in open lands instead of going into a trap.

It would be a mistake of Pak army's history to undertake any operation in NW without attack helis and proper armored vehicles.

Best timing for the operation would be after election of new PM at least after ouster of Zardari. Until than get your self some dam HELIS. Sell of blk-52, if you have to!

Call upon retired personals to take over police job during the time of operation.

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## Executioner

BATMAN said:


> I will answer you on this one after Ramadan.



What does it mean. You already thought in your mind, so say it.


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## lemurian

Apologies if already posted. This is a comment by Brigadier (R) Naeem Salik in reply to NYT report on Minhas-
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/world/asia/pakistani-air-force-base-with-nuclear-ties-is-attacked.html?_r=2&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120816



Dear Daryl,
Thanks for sharing the NYT report about a terrorist attack on a Pakistan Air force Base at Kamra. Let me clarify for the record that Kamra is basically a production and overhauling facility which build and overhauls Chinese origin aircraft as well as overhauls French Mirages 3 &5 which are still flown by the PAF. As mentioned in the report Kamra was attacked a few years ago as well but the details have been misreported. The previous attack was on a school bus carrying children of Air Force personnel on the main highway outside the base and the attackers came nowhere near the entrance to the base itself. That attack was somehow projected as an attack on a nuclear base by Professor Shaun Gregory without any factual basis but that image has somehow stuck. This time the attack was on the base itself and caused damage to one of the aircraft amongst many based there including Chinese version of MIG-21s and JF-17 a joint production of China and Pakistan. The fact is that the security and vigilance system at the air base was effective and all eight terrorists were killed by the security forces there. The second issue is the nature of the base and as I have pointed out earlier it is a technical base and a production facility and certainly not a nuclear base. How on earth would Declan Walsh or Shaun Gregory or for that mater the terrorists know about the presence of nuclear weapons there. Even the CIA does not know with certainty the storage sites of Pakistan's nuclear weapons and this kind of kite flying can only be described as unfortunate.
Best regards,
Brigadier (R) Naeem Salik

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## Ganga

FFlame87 said:


> Guys don't take Pakistan Defence Services so lightly, we don't like to boast about our achievements and strengths but we are more than capable of handling almost any country in the world.
> help of Allah.


 
First protect your key military installations from repeated attacks and then think about handling other countries.More the number of attacks, more lightly will Pakistan's armed services be taken.


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## airmarshal

Safriz said:


> But at the same time it can be said with much surety that the terrorists were in the area outside the base for some months as their intelligence was also very precise...




Precise information can be provided easily for such a big base quite easily. Dont forget the occupiers sitting across the border are not our friends and have all high tech gear and technology to do spying on a particular target. This includes listening to people talking to each other from very far and intercepting electronic messages. I have not even mentioned high resolution satellite pictures that modern militaries can obtain! They are much higher resolution than commonly seen by public. So its easy to track and create a pattern of movement of troops, stationing, concentration and potential breaches in security. 

Of course all this info was not passed on to the expendable terrorists. But they could have been told to attack from a certain area. This simply could not have been done without logistical support. This type of operation requires first of all brainwashing and indoctrinating and then using expendable human bodies to carry out brazen attacks that have more symbolic value than anything more. Not to mention the training involved to remain undeterred in counter attack and reach a precise point by using equipment assigned.


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## Executioner

Double post Deleted.


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## manojb

Safriz said:


> correction..
> they can make advanced mechanical weapons...cant do monkeys about electronics...
> and night vision goggles are all electronics and optical about which darra knows not..


On what nasis u assume that they use night vision goggle? Is area around kamra pitch dark? Was there powercut during attack? Someone can enlighten us? My logic theres enough light from nearby to opetate.


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## S.M.R

karan.1970 said:


> NW is a different ball game. PA is officially on record, denying any NW operation. Now to tow the American line and undertake that operation, they need a viable justification. What better than an attack by Taliban on the Military assets that most Pakistanis hold dearer than their lives...


 Even swat and waziristan was considered Impossible before operations, but PA conducted the operation. These type of attacks will continue as long as we have open / unsecure border with afghanistan.


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## Emmie

karan.1970 said:


> NW is a different ball game. PA is officially on record, denying any NW operation. Now to tow the American line and undertake that operation, they need a viable justification. What better than an attack by Taliban on the Military assets that most Pakistanis hold dearer than their lives...



Conspiracy theorist  Didn't know you were one

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## Mani2020

karan.1970 said:


> All your conjectures hold true for an assumption of this being a false flag operation by ISI to justify its impending NW operation to the local population..
> 
> Just like you are painting a scenario of a foreign ( with an added focus on India) hand using these conjectures, I can paint a false flag operation scenario with the same ones.. The IL 76 was not destroyed because they were told to not destroy any major equipment since this engagement was supposed to be just a smoke screen to fool the local population and ISI did not want any major loss to the PAF.
> 
> See, how easy it is to stitch together a bunch of conjectures and come up with a fairy tale of your choice



And the news agencies received the TTP representatives phone call from mars


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## clmeta

PDF being accessed from India. Does it make all Indians here ISI agents?
Tamils movies being downloaded in border areas? If India has to send its citizens, it will at least send North Indians who can speak Urdu not Tamils.
Paranoia at its best here.


BATMAN said:


> Not to mention Tamil movies being downloaded in border areas of Pakistan!!!!!!!
> 
> I wonder how media will tomorrow present answer to this riddle!
> 
> I still remember the little girls interview, who survived in 'westridge' mosque!
> She said scumbags were shouting while shooting 'in ki nasal ko khatam kardo'
> Now this is extreme hate against the inhabitants of the land, you can't argue it with any twist.


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## airmarshal

manojb said:


> On what nasis u assume that they use night vision goggle? Is area around kamra pitch dark? Was there powercut during attack? Someone can enlighten us? My logic theres enough light from nearby to opetate.



Duh! When they say it was night, it means the sun was not out yet. 

And when the sun is not out yet, it is dark. 

And when it is dark, it is night. 

Since it was night, the area around Kamra was pitch dark. 

I hope I have not confused you.

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## SamantK

While the responsibility has been claimed by the extremists group of Pakistan, the focus is still on India. There are many intelligent guys in the Army and your ISI which would know if there was an Indian hand in it but not once we hear them say that..

Congratulations to members here who have quite Intelligently put forward showing a very sharp insight that the Miscreants, somehow not being called Terrorist by your news agencies, could not have identified a Fighter from an AWAC and would not know the difference. Maybe those members are not aware of goggle.

Even a person with no military background like me can tell you the difference and the importance, and when we are talking about an organization which wants to attack a military base, it is hard to digest that they would not be able to differentiate and attack at random.

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## itaskol

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3317477 said:


> and where they get night vision and training to use them as happened in mehran base?
> 
> the training to hit the target with expert gun use?


night vision is not really hightech products. easy to get. maybe they bought from ebay.
in china if you order one in online shop ( most are made in usa, russia, belarus, china). you can get it in one or two days.
average price is cheaper than an new Ipad.

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## clmeta

Exactly !!
One can easily cook up a conspiracy theory that this was done to build opinion on NW operation.
But of course, blaming a "foreign hand" seems to be the in thing here.


karan.1970 said:


> All your conjectures hold true for an assumption of this being a false flag operation by ISI to justify its impending NW operation to the local population..
> 
> Just like you are painting a scenario of a foreign ( with an added focus on India) hand using these conjectures, I can paint a false flag operation scenario with the same ones.. The IL 76 was not destroyed because they were told to not destroy any major equipment since this engagement was supposed to be just a smoke screen to fool the local population and ISI did not want any major loss to the PAF.
> 
> See, how easy it is to stitch together a bunch of conjectures and come up with a fairy tale of your choice



One fairytale conspiracy theory could be: Lets plan an operation where we don't lose much, and we either get a justification to do an operation in NW or blame India and throw back some of the pressure they are building on Mumbai attacks.

Of course the theory is stupid, but so are most conspiracy theories like 9/11 and 26/11 are inside jobs. etc



S.M.R said:


> The first rule of investigation: who is the beneficiary of such kind of loss.


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## manojb

airmarshal said:


> Duh! When they say it was night, it means the sun was not out yet.
> 
> And when the sun is not out yet, it is dark.
> 
> And when it is dark, it is night.
> 
> Since it was night, the area around Kamra was pitch dark.
> 
> I hope I have not confused you.


Thomas alva edison invented bulb that runs on electricity. I hope theres bulb and electricity around kamra. you dint tell mevthat you've been to kamra!!!

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## karan.1970

Mani2020 said:


> And the news agencies received the TTP representatives phone call from mars



are you telling me ISI is not capable of fudging a phone call

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## Bhai Zakir

Asim Aquil said:


> Let's just pray all our enemies are dumbasses like the terrorists. JF-17s can be replaced easily as they are homegrown, IL-78 are our prized possessions.


 
From where the engine will come from???



karan.1970 said:


> All your conjectures hold true for an assumption of this being a false flag operation by ISI to justify its impending NW operation to the local population..
> 
> Just like you are painting a scenario of a foreign ( with an added focus on India) hand using these conjectures, I can paint a false flag operation scenario with the same ones.. The IL 76 was not destroyed because they were told to not destroy any major equipment since this engagement was supposed to be just a smoke screen to fool the local population and ISI did not want any major loss to the PAF.
> 
> See, how easy it is to stitch together a bunch of conjectures and come up with a fairy tale of your choice



Its a possibility for sure.


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## BATMAN

manojb said:


> Thomas alva edison invented bulb that runs on electricity. I hope theres bulb and electricity around kamra. you dint tell mevthat you've been to kamra!!!



I strongly advice Pak army chief, to follow your sincerer guidance and do not buy night vision for its soldiers. 

BTW... do you know terrorists entered from a village! lamps are only at walls and posts.

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## W.11

itaskol said:


> night vision is not really hightech products. easy to get. maybe they bought from ebay.
> in china if you order one in online shop ( most are made in usa, russia, belarus, china). you can get it in one or two days.
> average price is cheaper than an new Ipad.



but who taught taliban to buy on ebay  but as the member said if talibans have got so mush sophisticated in training and all that then they should be already using that in afghan war dont they


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## KingMamba

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3317671 said:


> but who taught taliban to buy on ebay



Forget ebay, who taught those cavemen to use a computer???


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## W.11

Emmie said:


> Conspiracy theorist  Didn't know you were one



you will be surprised what indians are capable of r

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## Emmie

Bhai Zakir said:


> From where the engine will come from???



Certainly not from GE Aviation .

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## W.11

KingMamba93 said:


> Forget ebay, who taught those cavemen to use a computer???



who brought them the computer


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## airmarshal

manojb said:


> Thomas alva edison invented bulb that runs on electricity. I hope theres bulb and electricity around kamra. you dint tell mevthat you've been to kamra!!!



Before everything someone discovered common sense too. Around the perimeter walls around a certain installation, how is it going to be at 2 am? All floodlights?


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## TaimiKhan

indushek said:


> This is too much of a generalization. We don't celebrate such kind of attacks or resulting damage (big or small). Being a neighbouring country yes we will be worried.



A generalization based on the experience i have so far gained in my 3-4 years of interaction with Indians on the cyber space. Indian members have indirectly shown their pleasure on this very forum and on Indian forums you will see dedicated threads celebrating martyrdom of Pak soldiers, be it Salala incident, US/NATO attacks, recent glacier incident etc etc etc. 

No need to worry about us, kindly worry about yourself, we can take care of ourselves on our own.

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## Pride

After reading the discussion and about recent attacks, I have few questions :-

1) It is holy month of Ramadan, Even if Pushtoons attacked (as claimed by many) why they will do it now? They are also Muslims and will try to do these operations after Eid.

2) Why this attack happened just after 1-2 days when US minister said that Pakistan's nuclear asset might go in hand of terrorist? Bang! 2 days after there was an attack and place has been rumored as near to N assets.

3) Why terrorists are targeting Pak defense forces. Earlier it was Navy and now Army. Is this grudge for something?

I think you guys know where I am trying to reach.

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## karan.1970

Emmie said:


> Conspiracy theorist  Didn't know you were one



In Rome my friend .. In Rome


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## TaimiKhan

Bhai Zakir said:


> But don't u agree its a very big attack and embarrassment??
> 
> Does this types of attacks Happens in any other part of the world that too regularly??
> 
> Anyways, my point was that we are not that obsessed.



Mehran base was embarrassment and not this one. I hope you do understand how a situation becomes embarrassment. 

During counter insurgency wars, such incidents happen a lot. Didn't you loose 2 PMs due to counter insurgency related issues. Loosing PMs is a big embarrassment or such attacks ?? I think i don't have to explain further. 

Do read about the Tet Offensive, the biggest of the incident of such kind in COIN warfare. Such attacks happen around the world during insurgency be it attacks by FARC in Columbia, LTTE in Sri anka, Vietcongs, Taliban in Afghanistan or Pakistan, IRA in Ireland/ Britain etc etc etc.


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## karan.1970

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3317683 said:


> you will be surprised what indians are capable of r



You are right

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## W.11

Pride said:


> After reading the discussion and about recent attacks, I have few questions :-
> 
> 1) It is holy month of Ramadan, Even if Pushtoons attacked (as claimed by many) why they will do it now? They are also Muslims and will try to do these operations after Eid.
> 
> 2) Why this attack happened just after 1-2 days when US minister said that Pakistan's nuclear asset might go in hand of terrorist? Bang! 2 days after there was an attack and place has been rumored as near to N assets.
> 
> 3) Why terrorists are targeting Pak defense forces. Earlier it was Navy and now Army. Is this grudge for something?
> 
> I think you guys know where I am trying to reach.



and 4) where the terrorists recieved the training, were they playing COD modern warfare?


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## Kesang

TaimiKhan said:


> A generalization based on the experience i have so far gained in my 3-4 years of interaction with Indians on the cyber space. Indian members have indirectly shown their pleasure on this very forum and on Indian forums you will see dedicated threads celebrating martyrdom of Pak soldiers, be it Salala incident, US/NATO attacks, recent glacier incident etc etc etc.
> 
> No need to worry about us, kindly worry about yourself, we can take care of ourselves on our own.


 
Don't tell me that you guys does not feel better when you hear about maoist killing our jawans. Don't lie.

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## Storm Force

your air bases are FREE FOR ALL by the looks of things.

SHOCKED how easy it seems.

IMAGINE wat a well trained commando unit could do to PAK BASES

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## S.M.R

KingMamba93 said:


> Forget ebay, who taught those cavemen to use a computer???


 
And people using ipads are still unable to control those cavemen in afghanistan.


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## TaimiKhan

Pride said:


> After reading the discussion and about recent attacks, I have few questions :-
> 
> 1) It is holy month of Ramadan, Even if Pushtoons attacked (as claimed by many) why they will do it now? They are also Muslims and will try to do these operations after Eid.
> 
> 2) Why this attack happened just after 1-2 days when US minister said that Pakistan's nuclear asset might go in hand of terrorist? Bang! 2 days after there was an attack and place has been rumored as near to N assets.
> 
> 3) Why terrorists are targeting Pak defense forces. Earlier it was Navy and now Army. Is this grudge for something?
> 
> I think you guys know where I am trying to reach.



1. Holy month is the most precious month for them to die, that is what they are told and they chose the night of 26th & 27th ramzan, the holiest day of ramzan, similar tactic they used and still use to launch attacks on friday's as that is the holiest day for Musims during a week. This is how they brain wash their cadre. 

2. Told thousand times officially and unoffcially, there is no Nuke asset on this base, no air base in Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Don't understand why is it so difficult for you guys to understand such simple thing. 

3. becoz its the defence forces which are standing in the way of the militants, that is why you will see the major of attacks happening against security forces in any country which is facing counter insurgency. Pak Army, navy & airforce all have been targeted, as they play their parts in standing against these militants. 

And i don't think i see where you are reaching at.


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## Donatello

Storm Force said:


> your air bases are FREE FOR ALL by the looks of things.
> 
> SHOCKED how easy it seems.
> 
> *IMAGINE wat a well trained commando unit could do to PAK BASES*



Try and find out?

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## W.11

Storm Force said:


> your air bases are FREE FOR ALL by the looks of things.
> 
> SHOCKED how easy it seems.
> 
> IMAGINE wat a well trained commando unit could do to PAK BASES



yes my dear they were all well trained


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## Ark-Angel

Sipahi Asif saved the base!


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## TaimiKhan

Kesang said:


> Don't tell me that you guys does not feel better when you hear about maoist killing our jawans. Don't lie.



Ok, tell me one single thread on this very forum which is officially celebrating the death of any soldier, leave assam or maoists, even you won't find one which celebrates the ones killed in Kashmir. You might find individuals saying BS, which we try to delete asap or when reported by Indian members, but we don't have such policies, but on Indian forums you will see official threads and admins/mods encouraging such threads discussing killing of Pak soldiers. 

Just find me one single thread or else you are just ranting.


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## W.11

TaimiKhan said:


> 1. Holy month is the most precious month for them to die, that is what they are told and they chose the night of 26th & 27th ramzan, the holiest day of ramzan, similar tactic they used and still use to launch attacks on friday's as that is the holiest day for Musims during a week. This is how they brain wash their cadre.
> 
> 2. Told thousand times officially and unoffcially, there is no Nuke asset on this base, no air base in Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Don't understand why is it so difficult for you guys to understand such simple thing.
> 
> 3. becoz its the defence forces which are standing in the way of the militants, that is why you will see the major of attacks happening against security forces in any country which is facing counter insurgency. Pak Army, navy & airforce all have been targeted, as they play their parts in standing against these militants.
> 
> And i don't think i see where you are reaching at.



so you mean a highly incapable pakistan force was unable to even stop taliban militants from attacking our base and destroying our aircrafts

what if trained americans with those stealth helis come and grab the nukes, and dont tell me americans dont know our super secret nukes

hmmm..........


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## Bhai Zakir

Pride said:


> After reading the discussion and about recent attacks, I have few questions :-
> 
> 1) It is holy month of Ramadan, Even if Pushtoons attacked (as claimed by many) why they will do it now? They are also Muslims and will try to do these operations after Eid.
> 
> 2) Why this attack happened just after 1-2 days when US minister said that Pakistan's nuclear asset might go in hand of terrorist? Bang! 2 days after there was an attack and place has been rumored as near to N assets.
> 
> 3) Why terrorists are targeting Pak defense forces. Earlier it was Navy and now Army. Is this grudge for something?
> 
> I think you guys know where I am trying to reach.



There are two theories:

a.) Its the work of ISI as not much damage and death to the property and PAF is done. Why ISI?? For easing the pressure on Pak army before waziristan operation.

b.) TTP, they think they are the real, pure Muslims and the real protector of Pakistan.

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## Pride

TaimiKhan said:


> 1. Holy month is the most precious month for them to die, that is what they are told and they chose the night of 26th & 27th ramzan, the holiest day of ramzan, similar tactic they used and still use to launch attacks on friday's as that is the holiest day for Musims during a week. This is how they brain wash their cadre.
> 
> 2. Told thousand times officially and unoffcially, there is no Nuke asset on this base, no air base in Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Don't understand why is it so difficult for you guys to understand such simple thing.
> 
> 3. becoz its the defence forces which are standing in the way of the militants, that is why you will see the major of attacks happening against security forces in any country which is facing counter insurgency. Pak Army, navy & airforce all have been targeted, as they play their parts in standing against these militants.
> 
> And i don't think i see where you are reaching at.



You gave the "obvious" answer which was expected. No brownie points for the same. I am having these questions only to take a cue on why this points me to operator is some one else to bring such kind of attacks and my finger goes to U S of A. 

Brainwash is done purposely for the benefit of them and there is nothing "Friday" on it as it was Army base and not a Mosque. they have been brainwashed to show a grudge against Pak forces as they are the one who are eradicating them from NW and supporting NATO to clear them. Old tactics!

It has been thousand times said that there were no "N" Assets but then how come rumor came in the place and how good was the timing for it. Doesn't it look the "right time, right thing". 

So these attacks are more looking like covert operations executed by someone else as I see them. Hope this clears the cloud.


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## Mani2020

karan.1970 said:


> are you telling me ISI is not capable of fudging a phone call


 
stretch it the way you want, coz i know with you its not going to end till you are not smacked in the head , you are on high dose


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## BATMAN

S.M.R said:


> And people using ipads are still unable to control those cavemen in afghanistan.



Afghanistan has fallen and destroyed... fully.

Foreign elements can land in any village, in vasts of Afghanistan and pick boys and girls of choice, who will earlier serve as prostitutes for hindu contractors and later slaves in digging precious stones with bare hands.

This is the life of Afghans out of Kabul, 0.01% news trickle out of Afghanistan.

What honor have they left with? Only source of supplies in Afghanistan is Indian / NATO transit through Pakistan.

Only job in Afghanistan is to personal guard of warlords.

Any NATO soldier who refuse to be party is killed by the ANA.

Afghanistan is big and no amount of troops can be present every where. If you want to hide.. you may for a while but you cant eat stones for all your life.

Come to reality, there are no Talibans left but lot of abused and angry Pashtoon children, serving as sex slaves. Call them Taliban if you deem necessary.


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## danger007

Faisla Aapka 16th August 2012 Part 2 - YouTube

Faisla Aapka (Kamra Air Base Attack..Inside Story?) 16th August 2012


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## Mani2020

TaimiKhan said:


> A generalization based on the experience i have so far gained in my 3-4 years of interaction with Indians on the cyber space. Indian members have indirectly shown their pleasure on this very forum and on Indian forums you will see dedicated threads celebrating martyrdom of Pak soldiers, be it Salala incident, US/NATO attacks, recent glacier incident etc etc etc.
> 
> No need to worry about us, kindly worry about yourself, we can take care of ourselves on our own.


 
But you can do a favor to all of us Pakistani members here...be on your heels with infractions...and gift few of them...so they can pack their bags and go on long nice holiday,,,instead of them being so absurd trolls ...not leaving a chance even on a thread which has some sad/heartening retrospects


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## karan.1970

Mani2020 said:


> stretch it the way you want, coz i know with you its not going to end till you are not smacked in the head , you are on high dose



.. read back on the thread before jumping in..


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## TaimiKhan

Pride said:


> You gave the "obvious" answer which was expected. No brownie points for the same. I am having these questions only to take a cue on why this points me to operator is some one else to bring such kind of attacks and my finger goes to U S of A.
> 
> Brainwash is done purposely for the benefit of them and there is nothing "Friday" on it as it was Army base and not a Mosque. they have been brainwashed to show a grudge against Pak forces as they are the one who are eradicating them from NW and supporting NATO to clear them. Old tactics!
> 
> It has been thousand times said that there were no "N" Assets but then how come rumor came in the place and how good was the timing for it. Doesn't it look the "right time, right thing".
> 
> So these attacks are more looking like covert operations executed by someone else as I see them. Hope this clears the cloud.



They have been brain washed against the army, but then in their brain washing they are motivated to do attacks on specific days, since they are the holy days and it will take them straight to paradise, in Peshawar we faced more then 85% suicide bombings on fridays, even now you see much more police on friday compared to other days. 

There are hundreds of rumors, without facts they can't be proved. Rumor can be we have nukes on each base, but we don't. No nuke in full assembled piece is placed at any single location during peace time, and this rumor is from some private organization which has no facts from ground. i wonder if kamra has nukes, why doesn't it has nuke delivery aircrafts on the base ?? Simple answer is, kamra is just a normal base having lot of manufacturing capability and nothing else, its the aviation city of Pakistan, nothing else. All nukes are somewhere else and would be close to the base which is having the aircraft which can deliver these nukes. Use Google earth and tell me what at kamra ooks like to be hosting a nuke.


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## BATMAN

TaimiKhan said:


> Mehran base was embarrassment and not this one. I hope you do understand how a situation becomes embarrassment.
> 
> During counter insurgency wars, such incidents happen a lot. Didn't you loose 2 PMs due to counter insurgency related issues. Loosing PMs is a big embarrassment or such attacks ?? I think i don't have to explain further.
> 
> Do read about the Tet Offensive, the biggest of the incident of such kind in COIN warfare. Such attacks happen around the world during insurgency be it attacks by FARC in Columbia, LTTE in Sri anka, Vietcongs, Taliban in Afghanistan or Pakistan, IRA in Ireland/ Britain etc etc etc.



I'm sorry i disagree!
IMO.. PA is being made to run around in a big circus.

Once, Zardari comes back he shall not be allowed to go out, no matter how good he speak of army sacrifices, from abroad.


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## karan.1970

TaimiKhan said:


> A generalization based on the experience i have so far gained in my 3-4 years of interaction with Indians on the cyber space. Indian members have indirectly shown their pleasure on this very forum and on Indian forums you will see dedicated threads celebrating martyrdom of Pak soldiers, be it Salala incident, US/NATO attacks, recent glacier incident etc etc etc.
> 
> No need to worry about us, kindly worry about yourself, we can take care of ourselves on our own.



Generalizations are normally always based on experiences and hence are so dangerous...because they conform to your memories and beliefs..and hence so much more difficult to dispel.. 

If anyone, Pakistanis today are most victimized by these very generalizations by the western world. And you are indulging in the same. 

And about indirectly showing pleasure on Salala etc.., well, you can find scores of Pakistani members here on this very forum that start jumping with glee when an Afghan or NATO soldier is killed by Taliban or there is a suicide attack on a check post / base in Pakistan... Is that any different from the behavior you are basing your generalizations on?

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## Mani2020

Let me tell you guys a simple thing , most of the indian guys are very happy from inside...they are just pretending to be innocent at the same time asking questions of which there are obvious answers...but they dont like it without spice ....

Most of them must be logged in simultaneously on pdf as well as an indian forum... in the latter one having a party and mocking around at the same time adding spice for themselves on pdf by pretending........ go to any indian forum and you will know what i am saying


*@topic*
Just have been on sister forum and the guy is claiming the aircraft to sustain damage is indeed a saab-2000 erieye.....what the heck...so much confusion...........anyone with inside sources ?

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## Pride

TaimiKhan said:


> They have been brain washed against the army, but then in their brain washing they are motivated to do attacks on specific days, since they are the holy days and it will take them straight to paradise, in Peshawar we faced more then 85% suicide bombings on fridays, even now you see much more police on friday compared to other days.
> 
> There are hundreds of rumors, without facts they can't be proved. Rumor can be we have nukes on each base, but we don't. No nuke in full assembled piece is placed at any single location during peace time, and this rumor is from some private organization which has no facts from ground. i wonder if kamra has nukes, why doesn't it has nuke delivery aircrafts on the base ?? Simple answer is, kamra is just a normal base having lot of manufacturing capability and nothing else, its the aviation city of Pakistan, nothing else. All nukes are somewhere else and would be close to the base which is having the aircraft which can deliver these nukes. Use Google earth and tell me what at kamra ooks like to be hosting a nuke.



I am not sure about the conclusion you are coming. Are you seeing just as a grudge event and attack on holy month and thats it? Are you not finding it as well trained/assisted covert operations. I agree on all your points which you mentioned if this would be a suicide attack in market or Mosque but this sort of attack is new in recent time to attack army and bases.

A normal person with ammo can't reach so easily near any of the bases unless it has been assisted and guided. 

Please let me know if you disagree that you see such act as normal terrorist act or a covert operation??


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## Ark-Angel

sreekimpact said:


> here it goes .....Newyork times reporting!!!
> 
> *Pakistani Air Force Base With Nuclear Ties Is Attacked*
> 
> 
> Arif Rafiq, an adjunct scholar at Middle East Institute in Washington, noted that the attack coincided with the speculation about a military operation in North Waziristan. *The Taliban are telling Pakistans leadership, If you hit us here, well hit you everywhere,  he said.*
> 
> Salman Masood contributed reporting.



Such an attack couldn't be planned in such little time. It was, for sure, planned several months ago.


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## ramu

BATMAN said:


> Foreign elements can land in any village, in vasts of Afghanistan and pick boys and girls of choice, who will earlier *serve as prostitutes for hindu contractors* and later slaves in digging precious stones with bare hands.



I find the above highly offensive, biased and racist. Not sure if the moderators care.

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## Supply&Demand

TaimiKhan said:


> Ok, tell me one single thread on this very forum which is officially celebrating the death of any soldier, leave assam or maoists, even you won't find one which celebrates the ones killed in Kashmir. You might find individuals saying BS, which we try to delete asap or when reported by Indian members, but we don't have such policies, but on Indian forums you will see official threads and admins/mods encouraging such threads discussing killing of Pak soldiers.
> 
> Just find me one single thread or else you are just ranting.



Are u kidding me?? u guys keep threads where there is thumbs up when indian soldiers are killed...u allow those threads to run for more 50 pages..then when the fight gets ugly..u promptly come and ban members who happen to be Indians..then u close/delete the thread...go and ask any non-pakistani or non-chinese...this is ur attitude...

Indian Policemen Killed And Dismembered check the glee in Windjammer's posts! he is literally salivating in these type of threads



Mani2020 said:


> Let me tell you guys a simple thing , most of the indian guys are very happy from inside...they are just pretending to be innocent at the same time asking questions of which there are obvious answers...but they dont like it without spice ....
> 
> Most of them must be logged in simultaneously on pdf as well as an indian forum... in the latter one having a party and mocking around at the same time adding spice for themselves on pdf by pretending........ go to any indian forum and you will know what i am saying
> 
> 
> *@topic*
> Just have been on sister forum and the guy is claiming the aircraft to sustain damage is indeed a saab-2000 erieye.....what the heck...so much confusion...........anyone with inside sources ?



Just like u guys were cheering when mumbai 26/11 was going on... just like u guys cheer when hindu women are raped and 'willingly' converted..so go and check urself

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## S.M.R

BATMAN said:


> Afghanistan has fallen and destroyed... fully.
> 
> Foreign elements can land in any village, in vasts of Afghanistan and pick boys and girls of choice, who will earlier serve as prostitutes for hindu contractors and later slaves in digging precious stones with bare hands.
> 
> This is the life of Afghans out of Kabul, 0.01% news trickle out of Afghanistan.
> 
> What honor have they left with? Only source of supplies in Afghanistan is Indian / NATO transit through Pakistan.
> 
> Only job in Afghanistan is to personal guard of warlords.
> 
> Any NATO soldier who refuse to be party is killed by the ANA.
> 
> Afghanistan is big and no amount of troops can be present every where. If you want to hide.. you may for a while but you cant eat stones for all your life.
> 
> Come to reality, there are no Talibans left but lot of abused and angry Pashtoon children, serving as sex slaves. Call them Taliban if you deem necessary.


 
Thats a good eyewash to show US public the reason for evacuating, rather running out of aghanistan, i would say.

As soon as nato is out, there will be taliban again controlling rest of afghanistan as well, mark my words.


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## prabhakar




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## danger007

TaimiKhan said:


> A generalization based on the experience i have so far gained in my 3-4 years of interaction with Indians on the cyber space. Indian members have indirectly shown their pleasure on this very forum and on Indian forums you will see dedicated threads celebrating martyrdom of Pak soldiers, be it Salala incident, US/NATO attacks, recent glacier incident etc etc etc.
> 
> No need to worry about us, kindly worry about yourself, we can take care of ourselves on our own.



sad to hear such kinda words from an senior mod's.... are you including every Indian?? i do agree there troll's from Indian members too who get over excited in some situations... are you saying there is no troll from other than Indian members??... i don't wanna pick their names... but there are many people from pakistan... who keep posting anti -India thread or posts..... those who makes fun from others death, you don't need to consider them as humans.... do you remember gokul chat blasts in Hyderabad?? one medico got killed in that attack, he is studying in OU... he is my friend and his father is my dad's friend...do you know his father is shouted down -down terrorism and terrorists but he didn't mentioned or took the name of Pakistan.... stop blaming us...

any ways come back to the topic: glad every thing is fine, and also India is not USA to train militants...just like how uncle sam trained Taliban's against USSR.... we learned so much from that part... India is trying to improve relation... not interested in war....


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## Mani2020

S.M.R said:


> Thats a good eyewash to show US public the reason for evacuating, rather running out of aghanistan, i would say.
> 
> As soon as nato is out, there will be taliban again controlling rest of afghanistan as well, mark my words.



I was once watching the interview of Gen Hamid gul and he said that afghani talibans are not against Pakistan and they are not involved in any attacks inside Pakistan....rather they condemn these attacks ..... mullah umer has sent his delegation various times to TTP to ask them to stop attacks inside Pakistan because by this they are also ruining the image of true talibs ( i.e afghani taliban ) in the eyes of people of Pakistan , but ttp is 100 percent opposite to them


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## Emmie

karan.1970 said:


> In Rome my friend .. In Rome



Now that means another asset has joined the league! No, no I couldn't qualify for membership.

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## Supply&Demand

seeing some pakistani news channel...my god!! the stupidity of these anchors and analysts..

They are accusing India for orchestrating these attacks...the evidenc they are pointing is the attack took place on 15th august ..so this means it has india connection....

and offcourse the same rhetoric- Muslims cant do this terrible thing..so it must be Hindus or christians or martians...

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## Mani2020

Supply&Demand said:


> seeing some pakistani news channel...my god!! the stupidity of these anchors and analysts..
> 
> They are accusing India for orchestrating these attacks...the evidenc they are pointing is the attack took place on *15th august* ..so this means it has india connection....
> 
> and offcourse the same rhetoric- Muslims cant do this terrible thing..so it must be Hindus or christians or martians...



genius the attack was on 16 august and not 15..how you tried to play with the dates just for your own propaganda and spice is quite evident here ...nice fabrication but failed....try next time .....


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## S_O_C_O_M

TaimiKhan said:


> A generalization based on the experience i have so far gained in my 3-4 years of interaction with Indians on the cyber space. Indian members have *indirectly* shown their pleasure on this very forum and on Indian forums you will see dedicated threads celebrating martyrdom of Pak soldiers, be it Salala incident, US/NATO attacks, recent glacier incident etc etc etc.
> 
> No need to worry about us, kindly worry about yourself, we can take care of ourselves on our own.



I beg to disagree. indians have DIRECTLY shown their pleasure for death of human life in Pakistan on this forum and on the net in total. This is the type of people they are.

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## ramu

S_O_C_O_M said:


> I beg to disagree. indians have DIRECTLY shown their pleasure for death of human life in Pakistan on this forum and on the net in total. This is the type of people they are.



For every Indian who jumped to the conclusion when a terrorist attack happens in India we see atleast two Pakistanis on this very forum who bring in RAW and what not even before the terrorists are caught/killed. So stop pointing fingers and introspect.


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## S_O_C_O_M

ramu said:


> For every Indian who jumped to the conclusion when a terrorist attack happens in India we see atleast two Pakistanis on this very forum who bring in RAW and what not even before the terrorists are caught/killed. So stop pointing fingers and introspect.



you make no sense in this post. 

what i posted is true. one may allude precisely put it as savage mentality.


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## ramu

S_O_C_O_M said:


> you make no sense in this post.
> 
> what i posted is true. one may allude precisely put it as savage mentality.



Hypocrisy at best. 

Read this thread and see when the fingers started pointing at RAW, India, etc and you can see a gradual increase in friction and trolling.


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## Safriz

itaskol said:


> night vision is not really hightech products. easy to get. maybe they bought from ebay.
> in china if you order one in online shop ( most are made in usa, russia, belarus, china). you can get it in one or two days.
> average price is cheaper than an new Ipad.



i am not on about rabbit hunting night vision..spotting scopes..which has range of less than 100 meters..
and are too big to be carried during a military operation...
they had proper military grade night vision which are miniaturized,have long range,light weight and can be worn like goggles...
air force spokesperson said this in his statement...he must know the difference between an ebay rabbit vision and a proper military grade night vision.


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## Icarus

@Supply&Demand: Posts reported for personal attacks, keep it civil.


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## Dance

*US confident of Pakistan nuclear security*

WASHINGTON: The United States said on Thursday it was confident of the safety of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear arsenal after heavily armed militants stormed an air force base in clashes that left 10 people dead.

*State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland offered condolences over the attack claimed by the Taliban. She said the United States had no reason to doubt Pakistan&#8217;s account that the Minhas base was free of nuclear weapons.*

&#8220;We have confidence that the government of Pakistan is well aware of the range of potential threats to its nuclear arsenal and has secured its nuclear arsenal accordingly,&#8221; Nuland told reporters.
&#8220;
We do talk about these issues and support Pakistani efforts to keep them secure &#8212; we have for quite a long, long time. And we don&#8217;t have any reason to be concerned at this moment,&#8221; she said.
&#8220;
Pakistanis have suffered more than their share at the hands of terrorists inside Pakistan, which speaks to our efforts to address this threat together,&#8221; Nuland said.

Earlier the US Department of Defense (DoD) spokesperson had said that they have no indication that the Kamra airbase attack endangered Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear assets.

Talking to The Express Tribune, Commander Bill Speaks, a spokesperson for the DoD, commended Pakistani security forces in repelling the attack at the PAF base in Kamra, however said that it was a concern, and that they were saddened by it.

&#8220;We would also commend Pakistani security forces for their efforts in repelling the attack,&#8221; said the Commander.

Reports in the press had indicated that the PAF base in Kamra is home to Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear arsenal.

Responding to a question on the safety of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear assets, Commander Speaks said, &#8220;We obviously work closely on a regular basis with our Pakistani counterparts to discuss the safety of their nuclear program, and it&#8217;s our sense that the Pakistani government maintains good security around their nuclear arsenal. We have no indication that this particular attack endangered Pakistani nuclear assets.&#8221;

Earlier on Thursday, Pakistan rejected US concerns that its nuclear assets may fall into the wrong hands, insisting the country&#8217;s strategic assets were safe and sound.

During the Foreign Ministry weekly press briefing, spokesperson Moazzam Ali Khan said, &#8220;Pakistan&#8217;s strategic assets are safe and sound and we have a robust command and control in place, so nobody should worry about the safety and security of our nuclear assets.&#8221;
The statements were in reaction to recent remarks made by US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, who feared that Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear assets were in danger of falling into the hands of terrorists if terrorism was not controlled in the country.

US confident of Pakistan nuclear security &#8211; The Express Tribune

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## W.11

Supply&Demand said:


> hey..he called me idiot first...did he get a warning??? why am being warned? coz iam an indian!



my nigga.....

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## Dazzler

for once i expected a reasonable debate by our neighbours but to my dismay, plenty of posts with little or no substance on the matter and even more ignorance and rhetoric which is not even related. The attack is well planned, inside source said it was better planned then the one on Mehran attack but the response bt Pak military has left them stunned! Hats off to all who were involved in the operation and condolences to the sole shaheed. Primary target, as per AVM (retd) Shahid Latif, was the Saab 2000 AWE&CS but they couldnt even get close to the hanger and immediately contained within 2 hours, all killed !

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## W.11

Dance said:


> *US confident of Pakistan nuclear security*
> 
> WASHINGTON: The United States said on Thursday it was confident of the safety of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear arsenal after heavily armed militants stormed an air force base in clashes that left 10 people dead.
> 
> *State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland offered condolences over the attack claimed by the Taliban. She said the United States had no reason to doubt Pakistan&#8217;s account that the Minhas base was free of nuclear weapons.*
> 
> &#8220;We have confidence that the government of Pakistan is well aware of the range of potential threats to its nuclear arsenal and has secured its nuclear arsenal accordingly,&#8221; Nuland told reporters.
> &#8220;
> We do talk about these issues and support Pakistani efforts to keep them secure &#8212; we have for quite a long, long time. And we don&#8217;t have any reason to be concerned at this moment,&#8221; she said.
> &#8220;
> Pakistanis have suffered more than their share at the hands of terrorists inside Pakistan, which speaks to our efforts to address this threat together,&#8221; Nuland said.
> 
> Earlier the US Department of Defense (DoD) spokesperson had said that they have no indication that the Kamra airbase attack endangered Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear assets.
> 
> Talking to The Express Tribune, Commander Bill Speaks, a spokesperson for the DoD, commended Pakistani security forces in repelling the attack at the PAF base in Kamra, however said that it was a concern, and that they were saddened by it.
> 
> &#8220;We would also commend Pakistani security forces for their efforts in repelling the attack,&#8221; said the Commander.
> 
> Reports in the press had indicated that the PAF base in Kamra is home to Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear arsenal.
> 
> Responding to a question on the safety of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear assets, Commander Speaks said, &#8220;We obviously work closely on a regular basis with our Pakistani counterparts to discuss the safety of their nuclear program, and it&#8217;s our sense that the Pakistani government maintains good security around their nuclear arsenal. We have no indication that this particular attack endangered Pakistani nuclear assets.&#8221;
> 
> Earlier on Thursday, Pakistan rejected US concerns that its nuclear assets may fall into the wrong hands, insisting the country&#8217;s strategic assets were safe and sound.
> 
> During the Foreign Ministry weekly press briefing, spokesperson Moazzam Ali Khan said, &#8220;Pakistan&#8217;s strategic assets are safe and sound and we have a robust command and control in place, so nobody should worry about the safety and security of our nuclear assets.&#8221;
> The statements were in reaction to recent remarks made by US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, who feared that Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear assets were in danger of falling into the hands of terrorists if terrorism was not controlled in the country.
> 
> US confident of Pakistan nuclear security &#8211; The Express Tribune



the same US has issued pakistan warning about its unsafe nuke weapons, US is just playing games, not siding with US will make pak lose confidence with US has in pak


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## R-DB

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un "Surely we belong to Allah and to Him shall we return".The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.All praise to mujahedin.

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## Icarus

Supply&Demand said:


> hey..he called me idiot first...did he get a warning??? why am being warned? coz iam an indian!



He called you an idiot, I sent him a PM and he kept quiet, then you went crazy over him:



> hey stupid brainwashed idiot,



Your previous posts weren't exactly nice either. That's why. 
Keep it clean and enjoy yourself but don't get too jumpy.


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## Dance

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3317982 said:


> the same US has issued pakistan warning about its unsafe nuke weapons, US is just playing games, not siding with US will make pak lose confidence with US has in pak



Well Panetta was the one going on about the "threat" about nuclear weapons in Pakistan.

Its not the first time he shot off his mouth when he shouldn't have.


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## S_O_C_O_M

Supply&Demand said:


> savage than u guys for cheering when mumbai was happening or when hindu girls are being raped...go and check ur mentality



You people give satisfaction to and justify your behaviors to yourselfs by utilizing the straw-man technique. That is all to it and NOTHING more. 

There are only a few Pakistani forums and you will never see the uncivilized savage posts that are witnessed and are prevelant on indian sites. There are dozens of indian forums that exhibit the behaviors aforementioned and this is not including the comments by indians on your indian news page relating to Pakistan and common ordinary Pakistanis. 

Mentality cannot be changed, it is ingrained in upbrining. The facts must be accepted. Putting a curtain over it and pretending that everyone conducts themselves in a civilized way will lead to NOWHERE.

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## Dance

Does anyone know the identity of the aircraft that was supposedly damaged?


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## W.11

nabil_05 said:


> for once i expected a reasonable debate by our neighbours but to my dismay, plenty of posts with little or no substance on the matter and even more ignorance and rhetoric which is not even related. The attack is well planned, inside source said it was better planned then the one on Mehran attack but the response bt Pak military has left them stunned! Hats off to all who were involved in the operation and condolences to the sole shaheed. Primary target, as per AVM (retd) Shahid Latif, was the Saab 2000 AWE&CS but they couldnt even get close to the hanger and immediately contained within 2 hours, all killed !



i think they achieved their target way before by breaching security, launching an attack, quite a shame on pakistan side


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## Emmie

Dance said:


> Does anyone know the identity of the aircraft that was supposedly damaged?



According to TTs, it was IL-78.. It only needs some paint job.

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## mylovepakistan

funeral prayer of Sepoy Asif Ramzan shaheed (Defence Services Guard, PAF Base Minhas)

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## R-DB

Another PAF base at Kamra is under attack as we write. The target is AWACS airborne spying platforms. After destroying the spying capability of Navy in Karachi Mehran attack, now the insurgents are targeting the PAF systems. Details are not clear yet but the fight is on. 

This is enough!! This urban war cannot be fought by the armed forces when the government, judiciary and the media is also waging a war against the armed forces along with the terrorists. Judiciary is not punishing the terrorists. Government is not prosecuting the insurgents, media is still hostile. Armed forces cannot fight alone without the judicial, executive and media support. Someone will have to remove this ****** regime NOW. We cannot destroy the country to save a ****** regime and its harmkhor democracy.

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## Safriz

CENTCOM commander is in Pakistan at me mo....







US Centcom chief arrives today to seek cooperation | The Nation


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## Hindustani

Sad that even in critical times, pakistani obsession with India continues.


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## R-DB

Hindustani said:


> Sad that even in critical times, pakistani obsession with India continues.



Shut up you idiot..don't take credit away from Taliban..You r good for nothing


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## Dance

R-DB said:


> This is enough!! This urban war cannot be fought by the armed forces when the government, judiciary and the media is also waging a war against the armed forces along with the terrorists. Judiciary is not punishing the terrorists. Government is not prosecuting the insurgents, media is still hostile. Armed forces cannot fight alone without the judicial, executive and media support. Someone will have to remove this ****** regime NOW. We cannot destroy the country to save a ****** regime and its harmkhor democracy.



Completely right.

No one from the branches is doing anything to stop violence and terrorism, then on top of that you have a irresponsible media that supports extremism on TV and goes around spreading false rumors/panic. 

Until there is a drastic change in the system in Pakistan, violence will continue on.


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## Hindustani

R-DB said:


> Shut up you idiot..don't take credit away from Taliban..You r good for nothing




Look at the comments


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## R-DB

Hindustani said:


> Look at the comments



Look at the comments and I again say shut up, leave us alone.


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## Safriz

nabil_05 said:


> for once i expected a reasonable debate by our neighbours but to my dismay, plenty of posts with little or no substance on the matter and even more ignorance and rhetoric which is not even related. The attack is well planned, inside source said it was better planned then the one on Mehran attack but the response bt Pak military has left them stunned! Hats off to all who were involved in the operation and condolences to the sole shaheed. Primary target, as per AVM (retd) Shahid Latif, was the Saab 2000 AWE&CS but they couldnt even get close to the hanger and immediately contained within 2 hours, all killed !



Yes this time the action was swift and decisive unlike PNS Mehran where they ventured on an impossible mission to "Capture them alive"
How can you capture someone alive when they themselves are there to die with Bombs tied to their bodies.


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## R-DB

Base Commander Commodre Azam Khan was wounded in the fierce and brave fight to defend the base. He and his fellow senior officers actually joined the battle with rifles in hand and led the attack on the terrorists. This is true leadership and solid character of PAF officers, MashAllah. It was a heart warming sight that despite the sudden surprise atatck and ferocity of the fight, the three top senior officers were fighting on ground like ordinary foot soldiers to defend Pak Sarzamnee. Proud of you brothers. With son like these, Pakistan can never be defeated inshAllah, no matter how evil or sinister our enemy is. MashAllah and Pakistan Zindabaad !!

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## W.11

R-DB said:


> Shut up you idiot..don't take credit away from Taliban..You r good for nothing



and why would india not want to take credit for the amazing thing raw did, breached our defenses

needs a praise, announce and collect your prize


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## Hindustani

S_O_C_O_M said:


> You people give satisfaction to and justify your behaviors to yourselfs by utilizing the straw-man technique. That is all to it and NOTHING more.
> 
> There are only a few Pakistani forums and you will never see the uncivilized savage posts that are witnessed and are prevelant on indian sites. There are dozens of indian forums that exhibit the behaviors aforementioned and this is not including the comments by indians on your indian news page relating to Pakistan and common ordinary Pakistanis.
> 
> Mentality cannot be changed, it is ingrained in upbrining. The facts must be accepted. Putting a curtain over it and pretending that everyone conducts themselves in a civilized way will lead to NOWHERE.


 


S_O_C_O_M said:


> I beg to disagree. indians have DIRECTLY shown their pleasure for death of human life in Pakistan on this forum and on the net in total. This is the type of people they are.


 


R-DB said:


> Look at the comments and I again say shut up, leave us alone.




Hell even some former Mods are trolling. Now stfu and keep your nose out.


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## R-DB

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3318061 said:


> and why would india not want to take credit for the amazing thing raw did, breached our defenses
> 
> needs a praise, announce and collect your prize



Who will give the prize ? Pak sar zameen or American Puppet Kabul Mayor Hamid Karzai...Will you please shut up and spurt **** somewhere else ?

My Salam and duas for these brave sons of Muslim Ummah and all in our army,air force and navy . Pakistan zindabad


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## Imran Khan

Sepoy Muhammad Asif

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## R-DB

Imran Khan said:


> Sepoy Muhammad Asif



May the soul of brave warrior rest in Peace.. Ameen Suma Ameen..


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## iPhone

Instead of having a solid debate and assessment on this incident and a much required input from professional and military member on this incident, this thread is turned into as usual a troll and rant fest. I just went through pages and pages of fast scrolling to get to any post with some substance. And out of 100 plus pages of this thread, I'd say you those posts could barely make five pages. The rest is garbage. Congratulations you have succeeded.

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## BATMAN

Imran Khan said:


> Sepoy Muhammad Asif



He embraced Shahadat on shab-al-qadar

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## Jango

Sources from within the AFB Minhas saying that 2 AWACS are totally destroyed. 

Anybody here hearing the same?


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## KALKI

Not possible without inside help.

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## BATMAN

Everyone plz pray for our brother Capt Tariq Jamal he is seriously injured during an op. got head injuries due to grenade fragments and he is in coma in cmh peshwar...... plz everyone tell urs mother to pray for him... May ALLAH protect him.......

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## Agni5000

nuclearpak said:


> Sources from within the AFB Minhas saying that 2 AWACS are totally destroyed.
> 
> Anybody here hearing the same?



Yeap. Official who don't want to be identified said that 2 aircraft destroyed.


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## Jango

I think I saw the heli that delivered the body of the Shaheed Sepoy to Isl. It was around 8:30 maybe. PAF heli.

May he rest in peace. Shahadat on 27 Ramzan.


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## alibaz

Imran Khan said:


> Sepoy Muhammad Asif








Salute to brave soldier

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## Safriz

nuclearpak said:


> Sources from within the AFB Minhas saying that 2 AWACS are totally destroyed.
> 
> Anybody here hearing the same?



Doesnt sound possible as the terrorists never made it beyond few hundred meters from rear boundary wall....


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## KALKI

*Militants attack Pakistan nuclear air base*






Militants attack Pakistan nuclear air base - Telegraph


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## Jango

Agni5000 said:


> Yeap. Official who don't want to be identified said that 2 aircraft destroyed.



There is alot of talk going on that rather than 2 aircraft being one Il-78 and a Saab, both were Saab.


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## Emmie

nuclearpak said:


> Sources from within the AFB Minhas saying that 2 AWACS are totally destroyed.
> 
> Anybody here hearing the same?



Well, thats totally new to me! Do you know someone working there?


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## Jango

Safriz said:


> Doesnt sound possible as the terrorists never made it beyond few hundred meters from rear boundary wall....



But they did fire a RPG at one Hangar, that is confirmed.

And at first I also thought the same. THat they were intercepted at the first line and one was killed at first instance.

But the people talked to say that 2 AWACS have gone.


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## mylovepakistan

where this news of 2 destroyed from???

post the link,


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## Imran Khan

KALKI said:


> *Militants attack Pakistan nuclear air base*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militants attack Pakistan nuclear air base - Telegraph




*sach bata yaar kassam se ???????????*

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## Jango

Emmie said:


> Well, thats totally new to me! Do you know someone working there?



Yeah, not from PAF Minhas, but from PAC. And also some other people within the PAF.

Really horrible news if true. But it should have been in the media by now, things like these don't keep their head down for long.

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## Dance

nuclearpak said:


> There is alot of talk going on that rather than 2 aircraft being one Il-78 and a Saab, both were Saab.



As far as I know no PAF official has come out and said anything about which aircraft was damaged. They've been saying that a rocket may have damaged one but the attackers never made it to the hangers. 

Right now theres a lot of rumors going around, so lets wait and see.


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## Jango

mylovepakistan said:


> where this news of 2 destroyed from???
> 
> post the link,



No link, sorry.



Dance said:


> As far as I know no PAF official has come out and said anything about which aircraft was damaged. They've been saying that a rocket may have damaged one but the attackers never made it to the hangers.
> 
> Right now theres a lot of rumors going around, so lets wait and see.



Not on media, no. The story on media is that the RPG hit the hangar, and shrapnel fell on IL-78 and the Saab.

But the other story is now emerging.


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## Mani2020

Imran Khan said:


> Sepoy Muhammad Asif


 
Salute to you sir!!!!!!!!!!

We are proud of you...what you did even 10% of us cant do...... You made us proud...Salute to your family


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## Bratva

nuclearpak said:


> But they did fire a RPG at one Hangar, that is confirmed.
> 
> And at first I also thought the same. THat they were intercepted at the first line and one was killed at first instance.
> 
> But the people talked to say that 2 AWACS have gone.



since the attack, PAF behaviour is totally fishy, they arent telling what kind of damage has occured on which asset. . . i have a very sick feeling about this since morning that PAF is hiding something


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## Emmie

nuclearpak said:


> Yeah, not from PAF Minhas, but from PAC. And also some other people within the PAF.
> 
> Really horrible news if true. But it should have been in the media by now, things like these don't keep their head down for long.



If true then they clearly knew which hangar was accommodating AWACS.. Such a great loss if news is true.


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## Dance

nuclearpak said:


> Not on media, no. The story on media is that the RPG hit the hangar, and shrapnel fell on IL-78 and the Saab.
> 
> But the other story is now emerging.




I'm sure we'll know for sure soon.

But the members of PAF have supposedly said things like from no aircraft was damaged, to one was slightly damaged, to what what you're saying. So who can we trust?

Its best to wait and see for the official reports. Like I said too many rumors going on right now.


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## Bratva

PAF is not telling what kind of damage has been done. This behaviour is confirming the rumours, something very bad has happened. 

Also the base commandor joining the fight, we dont see such kind of news until something serious happens and top leadership involve themselve in fighting, which again arouse the suspicion of something ugly happening.!


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## TaimiKhan

I don't think its possible to hide such big event of loosing two aircraft from the media. If PAF came out with the statement that nothing was lost and that only one aircraft got minor damage, then it seems correct statement as if they had lied and later it is reveled that 2 major assets are lost, it would be a big embarrassment for the PAF and that would call some action.

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## Pksecurity

Even a novice in the art of mass media would know that the real target of TTP militants was Saab 2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts. They were not even interested in the assembly line of JF Thunder aircraft being co-produced at Kamra. This attack is a rerun of a similar attack on Naval Air Base, Mehran where the target was P3C Orion aircraft used for Long Range Marine Patrol. The motive of the attack was to damage Pakistans sophisticated and expensive defense capabilities. TTP which claims to be fighting the occupation forces in Afghanistan are actually fighting to cripple Pakistans defense mechanism. And who should be behind these terrorists is not a million dollar question. Read more at: Kamra Attack: TTP is fighting India

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## Jango

Alot of uncertainties now. 

If they were spotted from the first point, that makes it at the minimum, 1, and at the most, 1.6 km from their incursion point. If they fired a RPG from back then, no chance it would be a clean hit. For doing a clean hit, they would have to cross the runway and attack, which is a distance itself. 

The possibility of AWACS being on the runway is also gone because the debris would have been on the runway.

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## Ticker

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3318009 said:


> i think they achieved their target way before by breaching security, launching an attack, quite a shame on pakistan side



In many such cases, where large facilities have to be protected, a limited breech can be effected and is possible. What matters is that they were identified while attempting the breech, cordoned off within 15 -20 meters of the outer perimeter wall, could not go any further and could not even escape. And subsequently were killed one by one. 

This is not a failure, but is a success. Those who understand the overall physical security management systems for such facilities call it a successful security operation. 

Please don't jump to uninformed and poor analytical conclusions.

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## Mani2020

TaimiKhan said:


> I don't think its possible to hide such big event of loosing two aircraft from the media. If PAF came out with the statement that nothing was lost and that only one aircraft got minor damage, then it seems correct statement as if they had lied and later it is reveled that 2 major assets are lost, it would be a big embarrassment for the PAF and that would call some action.



I pray that what you are saying is right and there should just be a minor damage to only one aircraft...if ALLAH forbid the case is what nuclearpak mentioned ...then dont know what i am gonna do...... i m going nuts


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## Imran Khan

its time PAF shlod take image of all saab-2000 togather and publish them . then case will be closed .

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## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> I don't think its possible to hide such big event of loosing two aircraft from the media. If PAF came out with the statement that nothing was lost and that only one aircraft got minor damage, then it seems correct statement as if they had lied and later it is reveled that 2 major assets are lost, it would be a big embarrassment for the PAF and that would call some action.



THat's what i think. Something like this is too difficult to hush up, and if anybody has been to Kamra, the place where the Saabs are placed are either the shelters at the end of the runway, or the hangar across the runway (visible to media). Had the hangar been destroyed, it would have been clearly visible, and the shelters are too too far away.

The official version is that a RPG hit the hangar, Il-78 suffered body damage, and Saab some FCS damage. The Air Commodore also got injured in this area.

The version doing the rounds within is that 2 got down. 

PAF either know how to keep really quiet, or are doing a big hush up (improbable).



Imran Khan said:


> its time PAF shlod take image of all saab-2000 togather and publish them . then case will be closed .



Like those Mirages with India!!!

Either this, or disclose it once and for all.


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## Emmie

mafiya said:


> PAF is not telling what kind of damage has been done. This behaviour is confirming the rumours, something very bad has happened.
> 
> Also the base commandor joining the fight, we dont see such kind of news until something serious happens and top leadership involve themselve in fighting, which again arouse the suspicion of something ugly happening.!



O comeon you're exaggerating now, isn't it possible base commander volunteered himself? With only causality I doubt there was a situation hard to tackle.


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## Bratva

PAF playing the hush up game again.


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## Ticker

mafiya said:


> PAF is not telling what kind of damage has been done. This behaviour is confirming the rumours, something very bad has happened.
> 
> Also the base commandor joining the fight, we dont see such kind of news until something serious happens and top leadership involve themselve in fighting, which again arouse the suspicion of something ugly happening.!



The Base Commander was there at the scene of intrusion within may be 10 minutes. His base is under attack and you think it is not serious enough for him to take charge and command his troops. 

The Deputy Chief of Air Staff was there in the command center within 20 minutes. 

Such was the response and displays the will and resolve of these people. 

Take your suspicions and ugliness somewhere else please.

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## Mani2020

This is what someone has posted on sister forum and i am quoting it 



> It's always heartening to see Taliban supporters creeping out of the wood-works and blaming US/India/Israel rather than their beloved terrorists and their ideology of bigotry and religious extremism.
> 
> Anyway, this is what someone at the scene had to say.* I'm only sharing the parts that are not sensitive and shed light on the events that are already public knowledge:*
> 
> 1.* I won't mention the type of air-craft destroyed that my source identifies but sooner than later, the info is going to become public knowledge.*
> 
> 2. "[The Taliban] entered at a time when the strike force guards were changing and away for sehri, a few DSG guards were all that were left on the posts, one of whom ran to the next post and raised alarm and was later martyred as he tried to stop some guy physically(hospital reports that half his body was blown away). Two commando units are stationed here (air force commandos) which were quickly brought in thru [deleted] and they quickly took control, there was an exchange of fire on the tarmac(body parts were strewn across the area) and almost within 45 minutes at least 8 of the 9 terrorists were finished off(or they probably detonated themselves on being challenged and having accomplished most of what the'd come to do)"
> 
> 3. "there are conflicting reports on the 9th, he was captured and died while in custody or was found dead not known. *However they have also fired a rocket at the f7 hanger which was thankfully not much damaged."*
> 
> 4. "Its true that the commandos fought valiantly and were quick to overcome the terrorists and specially the base commander is worthy of mention as he led from the front, got injured(shot in the arm, bullet passed thru) got the wound dressed and went back into the heat and oversaw most of the search operation."
> 
> 5. "*Certainly there was inside help and timing was calculated to the minute!*


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## Bratva

Emmie said:


> O comeon you're exaggerating now, isn't it possible base commander volunteered himself? With only causality I doubt there was a situation hard to tackle.



you discussed one possibilty and i discussed another possibility. Tell me, why Base commandar, Wing Commandor and other senior officer went to fight the terrorists? Like the maani said above, it is driving him nuts. Than obviously it is the case of driving something nuts to senior leaders of base due to which they jumped into a fire fight?


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## manojb

Earlier TTP spokperson claimed 3 a/c damaged. If what nuclearpak saying truth, then there was ttp loyalist inside afb during aattack ,who could have leaked the news to TTP after assesing the dmage. We have a habit of ignoring TTPs tall claims.


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## user1

mafiya said:


> you discussed one possibilty and i discussed another possibility. Tell me, why Base commandar, Wing Commandor and other senior officer went to fight the terrorists? Like the maani said above, it is driving him nuts. Than obviously it is the case of driving something nuts to senior leaders of base due to which they jumped into a fire fight?



Maybe they really did not want the embarrassment of PNS base Mehran to be repeated again on their base.


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## Jango

This is one area where the A/C could have been kept in the open, parking.



But there is no Saab there.

Now onto the second area, although this is not the exact place, but near to it. This is to the east end of the runway.







No destroyed Saab here either. That leaves the possibility of being in the shelters. And the distance to shelters is long. But the report is that they were identified and killed on or before the runway, not getting into the other side.


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## Imran Khan

its forces men hair cut ? when you have such things anything can happen


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## Mani2020

In normal days everyone chips in with the info saying my uncle,dad,dad's friend, grandfather etc etc is in airforce or military and today when its the most needed where are all those contacts and sources???

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## pak-marine

Rest peace the pakistani soldier who lost their lives


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## Emmie

mafiya said:


> you discussed one possibilty and i discussed another possibility. Tell me, why Base commandar, Wing Commandor and other senior officer went to fight the terrorists? Like the maani said above, it is driving him nuts. Than obviously it is the case of driving something nuts to senior leaders of base due to which they jumped into a fire fight?



Here's an extract from your own Mani's post, may be it helps you to understand something.



> 2. "[The Taliban] entered at a time when the strike force guards were changing and away for sehri, a few DSG guards were all that were left on the posts, one of whom ran to the next post and raised alarm and was later martyred as he tried to stop some guy physically(hospital reports that half his body was blown away). *Two commando units are stationed here (air force commandos) which were quickly brought in thru [deleted] and they quickly took control, there was an exchange of fire on the tarmac(body parts were strewn across the area) and almost within 45 minutes at least 8 of the 9 terrorists were finished off*(or they probably detonated themselves on being challenged and having accomplished most of what the'd come to do)"



Make a note of time it took and compare it with what you are suspecting.


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## SamantK

Pksecurity said:


> Even a novice in the art of mass media would know that the real target of TTP militants was Saab 2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts. They were not even interested in the assembly line of JF Thunder aircraft being co-produced at Kamra. This attack is a rerun of a similar attack on Naval Air Base, Mehran where the target was P3C Orion aircraft used for Long Range Marine Patrol. The motive of the attack was to damage Pakistans sophisticated and expensive defense capabilities. TTP which claims to be fighting the occupation forces in Afghanistan are actually fighting to cripple Pakistans defense mechanism. And who should be behind these terrorists is not a million dollar question. Read more at: Kamra Attack: TTP is fighting India



Yes you are right, its all in the game baby

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## Emmie

Imran Khan said:


> its forces men hair cut ? when you have such things anything can happen



Bhaiya if I am not mistaken having pattay is quite acceptable!

I don't like it BTW.


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## Jango

Mani2020 said:


> In normal days everyone chips in with the info saying my uncle,dad,dad's friend, grandfather etc etc is in airforce or military and today when its the most needed where are all those contacts and sources???



Uncle, Grandfather!!

If somebody's grandfather is serving right now, he shouldn't be on this forum TBH!!!

BTW, all the inside is saying AWACS FRIED!

Really hoping for this not to be true.


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## Mani2020

Emmie said:


> Here's an extract from your own Mani's post,



why are you indulging me into stuff? i clearly said that this is what a member had to say on a sister forum based upon his sources and i quoted it for the sake of more info.... that is not my personal opinion that is wat he heard from his source and said...

Also as i already said i am praying that this might not be the case and i pray that the damage is minimum and only to a single aircraft but we can't deny any possibility as i m too confused with so many reports with different stories...but the guy i quoted is heard it form a source who according to him is an eyewitness of the event...so you cant easily put it on back burner...the credibility thing lefts with him ....i know nothing


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## Oldman1

Any actually pics of the dead terrorists or identification?


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## Emmie

Mani2020 said:


> why are you indulging me into stuff? i clearly said that this is what a member had to say on a sister forum based upon his sources and i quoted it for the sake of more info.... that is not my personal opinion that is wat he heard from his source and said...
> 
> Also as i already said i am praying that this might not be the case and i pray that is damage is minimum and only to a single aircraft but we can't deny any possibility as i m too confused with so many reports with different stories...but the guy i quoted is heard it form a source who according to him is an eyewitness of the event...so you cant easily put it on back burner...the credibility thing lefts with him ....i know nothing



Not me dude, other guy dragged you in.


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## Irfan Baloch

Oldman1 said:


> Any actually pics of the dead terrorists or identification?



yup there are.. one moment.. I will update my post 

(note that all of them were disguised in military uniform, in case you missed the full story)


thats one

cant tell where he took the shot . maybe part of head is blown. 





this is the other picture containing all four including the top one in black and white

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## mylovepakistan

Oldman1 said:


> Any actually pics of the dead terrorists or identification?


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## Mani2020

The most baffling thing for me is the senior and credible guys on the sister forum who always share some inside tid bids are also silent in the issue and besides every one asking about the exact loss no one of them has replied so far...it may be they are not online ,,,or up with other stuff ...but all we can say is speculation

let me ask pshamim sahib ...may be he can shed some light


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## Jango

Oldman1 said:


> Any actually pics of the dead terrorists or identification?



There are pics released of all eight apparently, no ID on them though.






This is one guy, others were shown on TV.


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## phrozenflame

Mani2020 said:


> In normal days everyone chips in with the info saying my uncle,dad,dad's friend, grandfather etc etc is in airforce or military and today when its the most needed where are all those contacts and sources???


 
You've been told atleast one SAAB took atleast a small amount of damage bro. You can believe it or you cant and people start trolling and start demanding links when they cannot be provided. Then people again start asking someone tell something and we all repeat cycle again. :|

Anyway,

TTP are hitting our strategic assets, first in Karachi and now here. These assets have highest utility against external opponents. Make what you want of it. TTP are agents or not agents of foriegn spy agencies is a useless discussion, they need to be eliminated whether they're agents or not. There stated goal is overthrow of all present institutions. That goal is independent of Afghan war or WoT. So all the dreamers who think when US leaves things will settle need to wake up and stare at the cold hard reality, they wont go until they destroy everything, they're willing to die for it and we have army cutting bs deals during Mush time, present govt and forces sitting on thier toes and making PAC-PADS with our tax money designated for defense and opposition lifting their balls, opposing operations and marching to Waziristan and WE, the public are the biggest enablers of all these things. 

Remember that.

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## Edevelop

Pakistan's atomic assets not 'endangered' by Kamra attack: US

WASHINGTON: The US Defence Department Thursday said Pakistan's nuclear assets was not "endangered" following a terrorist attack on Kamra Air Force base.

"I do not have any indication that this particular attack (Kamra) has endangered the Pakistani nuclear stockpile," Pentagon Press Secretary George Little told reporters during an off camera news conference.

He was responding to news reports coming from Pakistan that the attack on the military base in Kamra had threatened the safety of Pakistan's nuclear weapons.

"As for the safety of the Pakistani nuclear programmes, we obviously work closely and on regular basis with Pakistani counterparts towards the safety of their nuclear programme. It is our sense that the Pakistani government maintains good security around their nuclear arsenal," Little said.

The Pakistani Taliban has claimed the responsibility of the attack that left nine attackers and a soldier dead and parts of the complex ablaze. But Pentagon maintained that it has no information on this.

"I can't confirm attribution for this particular attack. Obviously we are concerned and saddened by this attack," Little said.

Early this week, US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta had expressed concern that Pakistan's nuclear weapons might land in the hands of terrorist outfits if terrorism inside the country is not brought under control.

Pakistan's atomic assets not 'endangered' by Kamra attack: US

Fck Panetta and his propoganda....


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## Jango

Mani2020 said:


> The most baffling thing for me is the senior and credible guys on the sister forum who always share some inside tid bids are also silent in the issue and besides every one asking about the exact loss no one of them has replied so far...it may be they are not online ,,,or up with other stuff ...but all we can say is speculation



Seedhi si baat hai, aaj nhn to kal, it will get out when the serial numbers will be identified.

IL-78's are safe, it's only about the AWACS now.

THe target was AWACS and JF production line apparently.



mylovepakistan said:


>



Looks like some explosions took place in the black and white pics. Maybe hand grenades.


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## Bratva

I always wonder, Hhw come when terrorists attacks in India, they carry ID cards with them but when some group attack in Pakistan, they only have weapons on them.


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## Jango

mafiya said:


> I always wonder, Hhw come when terrorists attacks in India, they carry ID cards with them but when some group attack in Pakistan, they only have weapons on them.



RAW is more clever than ISI!!!!

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## Mani2020

A senior member on sister forum



> Timing calculated to the minute. They fired with RPG on a closed hangar. They did not even have to identify the aircraft. They knew which hangar to fire on.
> 
> This is either inside knowledge or months of surveillance. A very sophisticated enemy.


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## Bratva

nuclearpak said:


> RAW is more cleverer than ISI!!!!




USA said Lashkar e Taiba is next serious threat to America.... but same Lashkar e Taiba sends terrorist to India with documents on them so that India can easily trace them. Irony?


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## Jango

Mani2020 said:


> A senior member on sister forum



Surveillance. There are multiple hill tops from where you get a vantage point. The place where these camera crews have gotten there pics of Il-78 and C-130's.

That is the problem with our installations. Over time, they have become kind of intermixed with the civilian population, giving terrorists a good hiding spot. i.e Rawalpindi cantt.


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## Fulcrum78

From a strategic perspective, why was there a need for the senior most ranking personnel involved in the front line fight?
this can only be when there is ample evidence that the people responsible for the attack were known to the PAF personnel and perhaps the 3 senior officers were trying to resolve the situation on hand through dialogue rather than let the issue escalate.

The base commander himself is the senior most and prized asset for the base, his experience, knowledge and acumen is of utmost value. His involvement indicates that there has been an internal mutiny situation growing in the lower ranks

And on second thoughts why the hell have we allowed google earth to show our strategic bases with utmost detail and clarity. Please note that if you try to check any israeli base or Indian base for that matter you cannot see the details. The same appear smudged whereas we can even see where our F16 s and JF17s are parked on aprons and pens.
Google earth should be blocked for our prime bases and military installations.

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## KALKI

*Kamra Attack: TTP is fighting Indias proxy war in Pakistan.*

The attack of the militants of Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) on a key Air Force base in Pakistan was brilliantly countered and frustrated by the valiant soldiers of Defense Services Guards and PAF but it has left the intended impact. It has raised the questions on the security of Pakistans nuclear arsenal. Or the story of the attack has been manipulated in a manner by international and Indian media which creates the perception as if the nuclear weapons were stockpiled in that very base. This may seem absurd by any logic but the damage has been done. The media, particularly Indian and its Western sympathizers, are screaming at the top of their voice that Pakistans nuclear security has been compromised. The first to flash this unsubstantiated claim is none other than The New York Times. According to the story of this paper, PAF Base Minhas is believed to be one of the locations where elements of Pakistans nuclear stockpile, estimated to include at least 100 warheads, are stored.

Even a novice in the art of mass media would conclude that the real target of TTP militants was Saab 2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts. They were not even interested in the assembly line of JF Thunder aircraft being co-produced at Kamra. This attack is a rerun of a similar attack on Naval Air Base, Mehran where the target was P3C Orion aircraft used for Long Range Marine Patrol. The motive of the attack was to damage Pakistans sophisticated and expensive defense capabilities. TTP which claims to be fighting the occupation forces in Afghanistan are actually fighting to cripple Pakistans defense mechanism. And who should be behind these terrorists is not a million dollar question.

The unfortunate part of this episode is that the attackers appeared to have good knowledge of the area and the base. According to the analysts, it is not the work of half-educated Taliban militants. The attackers, some wearing military uniforms, moved through a nearby village under cover of darkness and climbed a nine-foot wall strung with barbed wire to break into the base. The latest attack on the air base comes at a time when media reports suggest that Pakistan is preparing for a new military operation in the restive tribal region of North Waziristan.

However, instead of clearly grasping the motive of the attack, the media started working overtime to suggest that Pakistan may not be the best country in which to store nuclear weapons.

It has now been established that TTP is Indias proxy working with Indian assistance to weaken Pakistans security establishment. Take the case of Lal Masjid of Islamabad where TTP had established its base and stockpiled lethal weaponry of fight the armed forces and take the control of Pakistani state. They had done this behind the cover of stick-wielding, buqa-clad female students of the seminary. Initially people were astonished at the sight of very tall burqa-clad girls but when the chief clerk tried to escape under the shroud of burqa, it was clear to everybody that most of the girls were actually male mercenaries of TTP.

Fearing a backlash from the armed forces, TTP militants have now escaped to their safe havens in Afghanistan and they have announced their comeback through frequent attacks on Pakistans border posts.

Apart from attacking military installations, the TTP militants are also attacking Pakistans Shia Muslims. In a daring attack on the day of Kamra assault, 25 Shia bus passengers were massacred in Naran area of Hazara Division. These militants have been attacking Shias of Gilgit and Quetta trying to trigger a sectarian war in Pakistan, a favorite tactic of Indian RAW to create a situation in Pakistan similar to civil war.

The unfortunate part is that those fighting Indias proxy war in Pakistan have sympathizers, both bearded and clean-shaven in the right places, politics and media and even some elements of the establishment. Pakistans military has to fight them in the battlefield but fighting them on ideological front is the job of the civilians. This front already stands penetrated by their supporters which makes the job of any military operation really tricky and complex. It is time that the people of Pakistan identify their enemies in media and political parties and in those enterprises which are populated by the bearded brigades These misguided zealots wish to take control through bullet because ballot is a far cry for them. In order to achieve this, they have knowingly or unknowingly sold their souls to the devil.

Kamra Attack: TTP is fighting India


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## Edevelop

nuclearpak said:


> RAW is more clever than ISI!!!!



Actually its more of demonizing Pakistan's reputation . During their 26/11 fighting hours, they pin-pointedly blamed Pakistan for transporting terrorists via fishing boats and carrying ISI identity cards. The story seems more like a Bollywood movie to me


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## Slayer786

Nobody can stop a suicide attack. They terrorists were ready to die. They wanted to damage and kill as much as they could. They failed.
Only one shaheed. May Allah grant him Paradise. Ameen.
But these terrorists had sophisticated weapons and training. Obviously, they must have come from Afghanistan where there are many so-called Indian consulates operating. They might even had probably met Bramdagh Bugti aka the terrorist leader of BLA for a cup of Indian tea.


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## chauvunist

Guys please dont come with rumors unless with proof or official statements,thats like giving us heart attack after recovering from one....

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## KALKI

Slayer786 said:


> Nobody can stop a suicide attack. They terrorists were ready to die. They wanted to damage and kill as much as they could. They failed.
> Only one shaheed. May Allah grant him Paradise. Ameen.
> But these terrorists had sophisticated weapons and training. Obviously, they must have come from Afghanistan where there are many so-called Indian consulates operating. They might even had probably met Bramdagh Bugti aka the terrorist leader of BLA for a cup of Indian tea.



It appears that killing people was not the primary purpose at all.

---------------

*Kamra attack retaliation for military offensive: Imran*

ISLAMABAD/KARACHI - Pakistans two main opposition parties, the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) and the Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaaf (PTI) have taken exception to US defence secretary Leon Panettas statement that army chief Gen. Ashfaq Pervez Kayani would soon launch military operation in North Waziristan against the Taleban.
Imran Khan, who arrived in Karachi on Thursday, said that the attack on Kamra airbase was in retaliation for the use of force in the tribal area and drone attacks and opposed the idea of launching a military operation in North Waziristan.

Talking to the media at Karachi airport, the PTI leader said that his party had opposed the idea of a military operation in North Waziristan from the very first day.

He also warned that the law and order situation will worsen in Pakistan if the present government decided to toe the US line and launched an operation in North Waziristan.

The latest attack on Kamra airbase is primarily due to the ongoing operation in Waziristan and the continued drone attacks. The only way out for Pakistan is to get out of this war which has nothing to do with Pakistan, Khan said.

Leader of the Opposition in the National Assembly Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan of PML-N warned that the proposed operation would lead to serious backlash in the tribal areas.

Chaudhry Nisar cautioned against a backlash of the proposed military offensive saying that any new military campaign will fuel terrorism.

The military should not plunge the country into a war at the behest of foreign powers, he said while addressing the media in Islamabad.

Nisar said the country had been suffering as a result of the US-led war on terror, and added that launching a new offensive in tribal areas will surely ignite a fresh wave of unrest, extremism and terrorism.

He also asked the militarys top leadership to abide by parliamentary resolutions, and said that considering the governments unwise decision to resume Nato supplies, the people would never support a military operation in North Waziristan.

Kamra attack retaliation for military offensive: Imran


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## Mani2020

chauvunist said:


> Guys please dont come with rumors unless with proof or official statements,thats like giving us heart attack after recovering from one....



you will not be the only to get one that i can assure you...count me too


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## DelhiDareDevil

Any comfirmed damages to Pak planes?

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## KALKI

*US confident of Pakistan nuclear security*

US confident of Pakistan nuclear security | DAWN.COM

*Pakistan had intel about attacks on military bases: Report *

Islamabad: A fortnight before Thursday's terrorist assault on a key airbase, Pakistani security agencies had issued two specific warnings about possible attacks on air force installations following the escape from prison of dreaded terrorist Adnan Rasheed.
The National Crisis Management Cell (NCMC) of the Interior Ministry issued an alert to officials in all four provinces which specifically warned that terrorists could target military installations, especially Pakistan Air Force facilities, using information provided by Rasheed, a former junior technician of the PAF.
Geo News reported that the alert issued by the NCMC had said: "Adnan Rasheed is a deadly terrorist for (whom) recently Taliban undertook a major operation to get him released from Bannu jail. He being from the air force, is privy to various sensitive locations/installations/airports etc."


"It is expected that with his release terrorist action against military installations, especially PAF, would increase. It is therefore suggested that all possible protective measures must be initiated to ensure necessary security of installations and VVIPs."
Rasheed escaped during a jailbreak engineered by the Taliban at Bannu Central Jail in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province on April 15.
He had been sentenced to death for involvement in an assassination attempt on former President Pervez Musharraf. Over 380 prisoners, including hardened jihadis, escaped during the jailbreak and Rasheed surfaced in the lawless tribal belt several weeks later.
Another alert issued by the NCMC to authorities in Punjab province had warned that "Punjabi terrorists (Qari Yasin group) present at Miranshah is planning to attack PAF base/installations at Lahore... on 27 or 28 Ramzan".
The alert advised authorities to put in place "extreme vigilance, heightened security and preventive measures" to avert any untoward incident.
Security experts noted that this alert had warned of a terror attack on a PAF facility on the 27th or 28th of Ramzan or August 16 or 17 well before heavily armed Taliban fighters stormed the Kamra airbase in Punjab on Thursday.
Nine terrorists and a soldier were killed during the attack.
However, the experts pointed out that the alert had warned of an attack on a PAF facility in Lahore and not Kamra.
(For updates you can share with your friends, follow IBNLive on Facebook, Twitter, Google+ and Pinterest)

Pakistan had intel about attacks on military bases: Report - Pakistan News - IBNLive


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## Peregrine

I am going to send a sms to some one working at 11 corps, lets see if he will reply, just want to confirm if rumours about AWACS destruction are true or not. Mani2020 you hang in their buddy.


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## Edevelop

I have a question. Are both ZDK-03 and Saab Erieye Awacs usually stationed at Kamra?


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## Hyperion

Emmie said:


> Bhaiya if I am not mistaken having pattay is quite acceptable!
> 
> I don't like it BTW.



Well, it shouldn't be acceptable. These are the individuals who are most susceptible to the virulent version of religion!

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## Agni5000

If it is damaged, it is good for pakistan. Pak engineer will learn internal on AWACs. In a long run helps them to reverse engineer.


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## krash

mafiya said:


> you discussed one possibilty and i discussed another possibility. *Tell me, why Base commandar, Wing Commandor and other senior officer went to fight the terrorists?* Like the maani said above, it is driving him nuts. Than obviously it is the case of driving something nuts to senior leaders of base due to which they jumped into a fire fight?





mafiya said:


> PAF is not telling what kind of damage has been done. This behaviour is confirming the rumours, something very bad has happened.
> 
> *Also the base commandor joining the fight, we dont see such kind of news until something serious happens and top leadership involve themselve in fighting, which again arouse the suspicion of something ugly happening.!*



On the contrary. This practice is quit frequent in our armed forces be it the SWAT operation or the Kamra operation. BTW do you take that an attack on Kamra of this magnitude would be a small matter for the said commanders? Hardly so.




Ganga said:


> First protect your key military installations from repeated attacks and then think about handling other countries.More the number of attacks, more lightly will Pakistan's armed services be taken.


 
We did. Quit efficiently, I might add. The more the number of attacks squashed, the more the number of these imbeciles slaughtered, the more the things for you to chew on, that is if you are wise enough.....



Storm Force said:


> your air bases are FREE FOR ALL by the looks of things.
> 
> SHOCKED how easy it seems.
> 
> IMAGINE wat a well trained commando unit could do to PAK BASES



Yeah. A free for all turkey shoot. So much so that even the base commander decided to have some fun.



Ticker said:


> In many such cases, where large facilities have to be protected, a limited breech can be effected and is possible. What matters is that they were identified while attempting the breech, cordoned off within 15 -20 meters of the outer perimeter wall, could not go any further and could not even escape. And subsequently were killed one by one.
> 
> This is not a failure, but is a success. Those who understand the overall physical security management systems for such facilities call it a successful security operation.
> 
> Please don't jump to uninformed and poor analytical conclusions.



Read this. Read it again.



Hyperion said:


> Well, it shouldn't be acceptable. These are the individuals who are most susceptible to the virulent version of religion!


 
These are also the individuals best suited to quash the said virulent claims. Besides who are we to dictate anyone's religious practices as long as they do not interfere with the basic human ethic.

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## Emmie

cb4 said:


> I have a question. Are both ZDK-03 and Saab Erieye Awacs usually stationed at Kamra?



No, ZDK at Karachi and Saab at Kamra.

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## Jango

All i'll say now is that the banner on top of the page be taken off by the management.

Too early now.


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## blackops

Are all the AWACS safe


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## Mani2020

Agni5000 said:


> If it is damaged, it is good for pakistan. Pak engineer will learn internal on AWACs. In a long run helps them to reverse engineer.



was that a logic?


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## Raja.Pakistani

who provide training,weapons,money to all these terrorists to have such organised and planned attack ? i hope Indians will not say its ISI who want to destabilize Pakistan.


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## Mani2020

Hyperion said:


> Well, it shouldn't be acceptable. These are the individuals who are most susceptible to the virulent version of religion!



we are no one to suspect any ones belief ...who knows may be he is more religious and patriotic than everyone of us..Remember "Much suspicion is sin"

Secondly by saying this just because of few talibs you are indirectly disgracing the sunat


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## Imran Khan

*welldone SSG-SSW*     

look the dead dog

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## KALKI

Imran Khan said:


> Thank by
> 
> KALKI and Agni5000 thanked this.
> 
> 
> IS post main thanks wali kya baat thi ? apki wish thi ye ?



Mate, he asked the right question which even I wanted to ask.

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## Imran Khan

look fingers of pork shiiiiiiiiiit someone fire on hands before this bastard fire on them

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## Hyperion

Mani2020 said:


> we are no one to suspect any ones belief ...who knows may be he is more religious and patriotic than everyone of us..Remember "Much suspicion is sin"
> 
> Secondly by saying this just because of few talibs you are indirectly disgracing the sunat


Mate you're still so indifferent to what is happening, how the society has become so polarized?

Get out of Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad or wherever you're living. Travel the length and breadth of Pakistan. Observe with your own eyes what habibi "Sunnah" has brought upon Pakistan!

What would you prefer: Why not just hand-over the whole of Pakistan, rather fight these "Sunnah" freaks, AKA the all mighty religious nut jobs, who consider Pakistan their personal property?

If you want harsh examples, I will oblige, however, I rather not on such an open forum. What say you?

*Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand!*


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## Stealth

"You messed with us and now you will see deadly consequences either you are sitting anywhere in the world"


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## Imran Khan

i am suspecting its same group of dogs which attack on army at Gujarat camp and Lahore police residence last month .


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## Mani2020

Hyperion said:


> Mate you're still so indifferent to what is happening, how the society has become so polarized?
> 
> Get out of Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad or wherever you're living. Travel the length and breadth of Pakistan. Observe with your own eyes what habibi "Sunnah" has brought upon Pakistan!
> 
> What would you prefer: Why not just hand-over the whole of Pakistan, rather fight these "Sunnah" freaks, AKA the Sunnis, AKA the all mighty religious nut jobs, who consider Pakistan their personal property.
> 
> If you want harsh examples, I will oblige, however, I rather not on such an open forum. What say you?



Why to generalize? there may be talibs with beards and such looks but there are people too with same looks but so humble, patriotic and true believers. Your looks doesnot determine your character . Because of few ugly talibans why to generalize everyone who is following sunnat and islam by true means . Evil and good is everywhere 

You are saying if the people without beard and such looks doesnot commit criminal acts.... Americans dont have beards doesnot they commit crimes and kill innocents? most jews are without beards so how can you justify their looks? if a group of shaved jews with spikes is found guilty of war crimes and terrorist activities will you ban such looks? or start calling everyone with such look as a terrorist or a person with bad conduct? If this is the way then such looks will also be banned as what jews are doing against palestinians is nothing less than a terrorism 

we have seen in the past taliban terrorists without beards and such hairs so what about them?Your looks doesnot bound you character ...

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## Raja.Pakistani

guys please stop this irrelevant discussion in this thread..share any news/comment/videos on this incident instead of taking about beard


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## Hyperion

Imran Khan said:


> i am suspecting its same group of dogs which attack on army at Gujarat camp and Lahore police residence last month .



Yara Imran, there is this BIG ELEPHANT sitting smack in the middle of the room, and people are debating: Well, they must be from this group, they might be from that group. Look at his color, look at his height, look at his ID card.

WTF! There is no good religious nut-job. There is no good Tableeghi. There is not good Taliban. There is no good PML-N. STATE AND RELIGION can not be mixed. PERIOD.



Mani2020 said:


> we have seen in the past taliban terrorists without beards and such hairs so what about them?Your looks doesnot bound you character ...



Firstly, don't tell me about the *FEW* religious zealots. Do you want me to point you to the daily bloodshed, economic losses, insecurity caused by these *FEW* not-so-pious religious people?

Mate, obviously, while on a "human-bombing" mission they don't go with the whole tableeghi shebang. Do they?


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## krash

Hyperion said:


> Mate you're still so indifferent to what is happening, how the society has become so polarized?
> 
> Get out of Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad or wherever you're living. Travel the length and breadth of Pakistan. Observe with your own eyes what habibi "Sunnah" has brought upon Pakistan!
> 
> What would you prefer: Why not just hand-over the whole of Pakistan, rather fight these "Sunnah" freaks, AKA the Sunnis, AKA the all mighty religious nut jobs, who consider Pakistan their personal property.
> 
> If you want harsh examples, I will oblige, however, I rather not on such an open forum. What say you?



Although this discussion is for another time and place but I would like to answer this particular post.

Mate its not the sunnah. The sunnah has been around for 1400 years. The sunnah is present in many other parts of the world. These retards however are a more recent and local phenomenon. It is time we accepted that the problem is within us. It is us, the people, who are retarded to the bone. Take away the Sunnah and we will find another sliver of a pickle to make war on. We fight on the basis of ethnicity, we fight on the bases of religion, we fight on the bases political parties, we fight on the bases of language, we twist, mutate and pervert religion where we can and when we cant we go "meh.....", we believe every concocted retarded statement by any moron not fit to be fed to my dogs, we destroy our own property to protest against the one who sits half way across the planet, we've been burning our wives long before islam or sunnah, we've been killing our daughters long before as well, we blame everyone around us but our selves. Iv seen men dressed in white garb with a foot long beard and a white tubin walk in class and teach math and computer sciences the way Iv never been taught before. So its not the sunnah it is us. We the *sheep* are at fault.

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## Safriz

The mystery remains which aircraft was damaged...
If as some reports say that one of the hangers was hit by RPG and shrapnel did hit a plane inside..
It wasn't a direct RPG hit to the plane but shrapnel damage....
Which plane was this? No confirmed reports yet....


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## Hyperion

krash said:


> Although this discussion is for another time and place but I would like to answer this particular post.
> 
> Mate its not the sunnah. The sunnah has been around for 1400 years. The sunnah is present in many other parts of the world. These retards however are a more recent and local phenomenon. It is time we accepted that the problem is within us. It is us, the people, who are retarded to the bone. Take away the Sunnah and we will find another sliver of a pickle to make war on. We fight on the basis of ethnicity, we fight on the bases of religion, we fight on the bases political parties, we fight on the bases of language, we twist, mutate and pervert religion where we can and when we cant we go "meh.....", we believe every concocted retarded statement by any moron not fit to be fed to my dogs, we destroy our own property to protest against the one who sits half way across the planet, we've been burning our wives long before islam or sunnah, we've been killing our daughters long before as well, we blame everyone around us but our selves. Iv seen men dressed in white garb with a foot long beard and a white tubin walk in class and teach math and computer sciences the way Iv never been taught before. So its not the sunnah it is us. We the *sheep* are at fault.



Well, we can respectfully agree to disagree with each other. What say you that we have the right to differing opinions?

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## Xestan

So much of off-topic discussion going on here, Indians with their joy aside, some liberal fascists will never leave any opportunity to malign the image of Islam. Anyways..

On topic: I spoke with someone in the Military, they are very clear about the operation, no aircraft has been damaged other than a IL-86MP, which too is nominally damaged. Our Erieyes are safe!

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## Devil Soul

*Alert air force repels militant raid on key base*
By Rashid Ali
Published: August 17, 2012
ATTOCK: 
While militants were previously successful in storming an army installation (GHQ) and a Naval base (Mehran), which were both held hostage for a number of hours, the third and often-ignored branch of the military, the air force, effectively stymied a similar raid on its key base.
Nine heavily-armed militants attempted to infiltrate Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Minhas base, a vital installation located in Kamra, outside Attock. However, the audacious raid inflicted little physical damage compared to similar endeavours in the past few years.
The Pakistan Air Force said nine attackers, dressed in military fatigues and armed with rocket propelled-grenades and suicide vests, targeted the base and the adjacent Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at 2am, local time.
The militants moved through a nearby village, Pind Makhan, and climbed a
nine foot wall strung with barbed wire to break into the base, sources said. However, they were immediately engaged by a security personnel, deployed at a watchtower along the boundary wall, who informed his colleagues.
The militants, most of whom were strapped with suicide bomb vests, were unable to cross the inner security cordon. They were engaged in an operation that lasted about 20 minutes, sources in the PAF said. The attack left one air force security guard, sepoy Asif Ramzan dead, besides the nine militants, and an aircraft slightly damaged.
The pre-dawn assault, promptly claimed by the Tehreek-e-Taliban (TTP), came days after reports surfaced of Pakistan&#8217;s willingness to launch an operation in the restive and largely-untouched North Waziristan agency &#8211; known to be a hotbed of local and foreign militants.
*The operation*
&#8220;There was an announcement by megaphone for soldiers not to move from the barracks,&#8221; said an officer. Special forces and police scrambled to the scene.
Security forces opened fire when militants approached aircraft hangars, prompting other militants to fire rocket-propelled grenades from outside the base&#8217;s walls, said the air force spokesperson.
&#8220;Eight miscreants were killed inside the Minhas base boundary wall and one miscreant exploded himself outside the perimeters where he was hiding,&#8221; the air force said. It said there had been a shootout &#8220;for more than two hours&#8221; and 10 hours after the assault began, spokesperson Tariq Mahmood confirmed the base was &#8220;totally safe&#8221;.
About an hour later, a series of small explosions could be heard as improvised explosive devices planted on the base by the militants were successfully control-detonated by the military. Base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who led the operation against the attackers, was shot in the shoulder, but is in stable condition, said spokesman Captain Tariq Mahmood.
*Responsibility*
The Pakistani Taliban promptly claimed responsibility for the attack and said the planes at the base were being used to kill its fighters.
Spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan dedicated the attack to late al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and claimed four Taliban fighters were killed after destroying three aircraft and killing a dozen soldiers.
&#8220;We are proud of this operation. Our leadership had decided to attack Kamra base a long time ago,&#8221; Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan said by telephone from an undisclosed location.
*Attack repelled*
Despite the infiltration, the militants were able to inflict little damage at the key base. Sources said that was possibly because the base was already on red alert due to intelligence reports of imminent attack received earlier. Previous Taliban assaults on Pakistani military bases have exacted far higher casualty tolls. In May 2011, for instance, it took 17 hours to quell an attack on an air base in Karachi claimed by the Taliban. The complex, located halfway between Islamabad and Peshawar on the GT Road, assembles Mirage and, with Chinese assistance, JF-17 fighter jets.
It also houses the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, a major air force research and development centre. Other installations in the area include the AK Regiment camp in Mansar, the SSG base and Artillery headquarters in Attock.
The air force spokesman, however, said that the Minhas air base did not house nuclear weapons. &#8220;No air base is a nuclear air base in Pakistan,&#8221; he said. The base at Kamra has previously come under attack twice, once in 2007 and then in 2009. A suicide bomber had killed eight people in an attack on a check post outside the base on October 23, 2009. In December 2007, a suicide bomber had targeted a school bus and injured at least five children of employees at the base.
*Inquiry*
Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt appointed a five-member inquiry committee headed by Air Marshal Syed Athar Hussain Bukhari. He also announced Rs1 million for the family of martyred sepoy Asif Ramzan.
(Read: Attack on PAF base in Kamra)
Published in The Express Tribune, August 17th, 2012.


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## Raja.Pakistani

Pakistan Air force was able to curb the attack successfully by the grace of Allah..these terrorist are just paid agent of anti-Pakistan forces and they will always get the bullet on their coward *****. We are proud on our martyred soldier Mr Asif who sacrificed his life in this operation and no one can look at Pakistan with evil eyes until this country have sons like him. It was good to see that our senior officer Air Commodore Azam Khan led the operation up-front


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## Emmie

Devil Soul said:


> *Alert air force repels militant raid on key base*
> By Rashid Ali
> Published: August 17, 2012
> ATTOCK:
> While militants were previously successful in storming an army installation (GHQ) and a Naval base (Mehran), which were both held hostage for a number of hours, the third and often-ignored branch of the military, the air force, effectively stymied a similar raid on its key base.
> Nine heavily-armed militants attempted to infiltrate Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Minhas base, a vital installation located in Kamra, outside Attock. However, the audacious raid inflicted little physical damage compared to similar endeavours in the past few years.
> The Pakistan Air Force said nine attackers, dressed in military fatigues and armed with rocket propelled-grenades and suicide vests, targeted the base and the adjacent Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at 2am, local time.
> The militants moved through a nearby village, Pind Makhan, and climbed a
> nine foot wall strung with barbed wire to break into the base, sources said. However, they were immediately engaged by a security personnel, deployed at a watchtower along the boundary wall, who informed his colleagues.
> The militants, most of whom were strapped with suicide bomb vests, were* unable to cross the inner security cordon*. They were engaged in an operation that lasted about 20 minutes, sources in the PAF said. The attack left one air force security guard, sepoy Asif Ramzan dead, besides the nine militants, and an aircraft slightly damaged.
> The pre-dawn assault, promptly claimed by the Tehreek-e-Taliban (TTP), came days after reports surfaced of Pakistans willingness to launch an operation in the restive and largely-untouched North Waziristan agency  known to be a hotbed of local and foreign militants.
> *The operation*
> There was an announcement by megaphone for soldiers not to move from the barracks, said an officer. Special forces and police scrambled to the scene.
> *Security forces opened fire when militants approached aircraft hangars,* prompting other militants to fire rocket-propelled grenades from outside the bases walls, said the air force spokesperson.
> Eight miscreants were killed inside the Minhas base boundary wall and one miscreant exploded himself outside the perimeters where he was hiding, the air force said. It said there had been a shootout for more than two hours and 10 hours after the assault began, spokesperson Tariq Mahmood confirmed the base was totally safe.
> About an hour later, a series of small explosions could be heard as improvised explosive devices planted on the base by the militants were successfully control-detonated by the military. Base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who led the operation against the attackers, was shot in the shoulder, but is in stable condition, said spokesman Captain Tariq Mahmood.
> *Responsibility*
> The Pakistani Taliban promptly claimed responsibility for the attack and said the planes at the base were being used to kill its fighters.
> Spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan dedicated the attack to late al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and claimed four Taliban fighters were killed after destroying three aircraft and killing a dozen soldiers.
> We are proud of this operation. Our leadership had decided to attack Kamra base a long time ago, Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan said by telephone from an undisclosed location.
> *Attack repelled*
> Despite the infiltration, the militants were able to inflict little damage at the key base. Sources said that was possibly because the base was already on red alert due to intelligence reports of imminent attack received earlier. Previous Taliban assaults on Pakistani military bases have exacted far higher casualty tolls. In May 2011, for instance, it took 17 hours to quell an attack on an air base in Karachi claimed by the Taliban. The complex, located halfway between Islamabad and Peshawar on the GT Road, assembles Mirage and, with Chinese assistance, JF-17 fighter jets.
> It also houses the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, a major air force research and development centre. Other installations in the area include the AK Regiment camp in Mansar, the SSG base and Artillery headquarters in Attock.
> The air force spokesman, however, said that the Minhas air base did not house nuclear weapons. No air base is a nuclear air base in Pakistan, he said. The base at Kamra has previously come under attack twice, once in 2007 and then in 2009. A suicide bomber had killed eight people in an attack on a check post outside the base on October 23, 2009. In December 2007, a suicide bomber had targeted a school bus and injured at least five children of employees at the base.
> *Inquiry*
> Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt appointed a five-member inquiry committee headed by Air Marshal Syed Athar Hussain Bukhari. He also announced Rs1 million for the family of martyred sepoy Asif Ramzan.
> (Read: Attack on PAF base in Kamra)
> Published in The Express Tribune, August 17th, 2012.



Pathetic reporting.. Inner security cordon is prolly inside the aircraft!

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## JonAsad

Why i get the feeling that keeping the public away from the truth is the new policy-
one aircraft was apparantly damaged and no news about it-


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## Last Hope

JonAsad said:


> Why i get the feeling that keeping the public away from the truth is the new policy-
> one aircraft was apparantly damaged and no news about it-



A RPG exploded near it, and it only got few splinters. That was nothing to be shown as breaking news, and it would be repaid in few hours.

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## krash

Imran Khan said:


> look fingers of pork shiiiiiiiiiit someone fire on hands before this bastard fire on them


 
If you look close you'll see that they also tried to shoot his manhood off......but there wasn't any.


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## Safriz

JonAsad said:


> Why i get the feeling that keeping the public away from the truth is the new policy-
> one aircraft was apparantly damaged and no news about it-



There can be many reasons for that...
First of all this report of one aircraft damaged was from the very early stages of the attack when smoke was seen rising from the airbase and Blasts/Firing heard...
Later it was shown on ARY that the smoke was rising from a structure which did not resemble an aircraft or aircraft hanger....
No official word came out after the initial report on damaged air craft...

So the conclusion is that may be it was mistaken report..They assumed that the smoke is coming from an aircraft....and later found that it was a fuel tank...

Or second reason may be that the terrorists really did succeed in Destroying the Erieye... and they are awaiting inquiry board to give their statement....

Nothing can be said for sure...Unlike Mehran base atttack where the P3 orion could be seen burning froom sharah-e-faisal and there was no way for the Navy to deny this.

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## Last Hope

krash said:


> If you look close you'll see that they also tried to shoot his manhood off......but there wasn't any.



To me it looks like flesh from his fingers. 
You can see several different places he has been hit, his fingers, biceps and probably head too. Either it is co-incidence, or sharp shooting to avoid the explosives. 

And just a fact, he hardly has a beard.


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## JonAsad

Last Hope said:


> A RPG exploded near it, and it only got few splinters. That was nothing to be shown as breaking news, and it would be repaid in few hours.



Hi-
Given the severity of the attack- the inteligence and survailance and preparation done by those scums-
How could the rpg miss its target?-
It didnt in mehran attack-



Last Hope said:


> To me it looks like flesh from his fingers.
> You can see several different places he has been hit, his fingers, biceps and probably head too. Either it is co-incidence, or sharp shooting to avoid the explosives.
> 
> And just a fact, he hardly has a beard.


Its just that somebody making sure that he is really dead- keeping in mind the suicide vest he is wearing-


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## Last Hope

JonAsad said:


> Hi-
> Given the severity of the attack- the inteligence and survailance and preparation done by those scums-
> How could the rpg miss its target?-
> It didnt in mehran attack-



Don't believe in anything said by media. The Mehran attack was quite different than Kamra. The terrorists had internal support and were inside the base, near hangars with clear vision of Orions.

However yesterday's attack was already intercepted by Intelligence over six days before the attack and the base was ready with SSW guards. They were encountered before they could go in deep, towards the hangars. The place of encounter was fence no.5. They had fired the RPGs from OUTSIDE initially and were in exchange of heavy fire hence did not have enough time to target the aircraft or go any nearer to it. Were encountered on 3rd post out of four at that side set up after intelligence reports.

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## Safriz

54 people have been arrested for investigations


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## Peaceful Civilian

Imran Khan said:


> look fingers of pork shiiiiiiiiiit someone fire on hands before this bastard fire on them


What is yellow box on his Chest??


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## Roybot

Peaceful Civlian said:


> What is yellow box on his Chest??



Suicide vest?


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## S_O_C_O_M

Pakistan has 3 quarters of a million troop strength. Can they not afford to put an extra 500-1000 soliders to guard the outer perimeters of all sensitive installations/military bases ??? This is the most simple and effective form of security.This is absolutely absurd and foolish of the Pakistani establishment to continuously allow this to happen. Even if this was an inside job this would still prove very effective. 

Or 

Pakistani establishment was hoping a breach like this would happen in an effort to elicit more money from the West with the excuse of not enough money to safeguard sensitive installations. 


These pan-chodes were targeting the F-16's. And they probably got one or two. We will never know about it. 

Pakistan air force base comes under attack | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## Imran Khan

krash said:


> If you look close you'll see that they also tried to shoot his manhood off......but there wasn't any.




nope these are peaces of his body dear most likely fingers

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## clmeta

Well even if terrorists who attack Pak carry ID cards, there is no reason for the security agencies to make it public.
You know because your security agencies have to blame it on Afghans, Indians, etc.


mafiya said:


> I always wonder, Hhw come when terrorists attacks in India, they carry ID cards with them but when some group attack in Pakistan, they only have weapons on them.


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## Safriz

10600 U.S. dollars Awarded to Shaheed Soldier Asif's family.


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## Imran Khan

Peaceful Civlian said:


> What is yellow box on his Chest??



shadi card hai humy deny aya tha 

ary bhi sucide bomb jacket hai or kya hai now a days taliban are expert it this .they are fighting USA as you know and killing our 10-20 innocents daily by these useless lives

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## clmeta

Links? Any proof?????


Mani2020 said:


> A senior member on sister forum



Your government and home minister confirmed the theory.


cb4 said:


> Actually its more of demonizing Pakistan's reputation . During their 26/11 fighting hours, they pin-pointedly blamed Pakistan for transporting terrorists via fishing boats and carrying ISI identity cards. The story seems more like a Bollywood movie to me


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## Imran Khan

JonAsad said:


> Why i get the feeling that keeping the public away from the truth is the new policy-
> one aircraft was apparantly damaged and no news about it-



what the earn last time when planes were damage and shown ? its only down morale of nation nothing more .


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## Edevelop

I suppose there is no option but to increase the Army's size. Pakistan is not going to breath until threats from Taliban, Al-Qaeda, BLA, NATO, and India eliminate


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## clmeta

Also, starting an operation in NW should be a good option.


cb4 said:


> I suppose there is no option but to increase the Army's size. Pakistan is not going to breath until threats from Taliban, Al-Qaeda, BLA, NATO, and India eliminate


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## Safriz

what aircraft is this? 
This was seen flying in circles over the airbase...

Watch this video betweem 08:00 and 08:30...


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## Imran Khan

Safriz said:


> what aircraft is this?
> This was seen flying in circles over the airbase...
> 
> Watch this video betweem 08:00 and 08:30...



C-130 dear

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## Raja.Pakistani

clmeta said:


> Well after some Pakistanis blamed the Siachen tragedy (where 135 soldiers died) on Indians, I'm not surprised at this allegation.


 
yea to wohee baat howee chor ka dhari mein tikha..

It was not allegation but question. Please read it again and answer it according to your understanding. It was impossible for these 8 terrorists to hold the control of this base permanently then what were their motives? to give impression that Pakistan nuclear programme are not safe ? 

Well you guys blame ISI for training and funding all terrorism in India but get silent to answer who is funding terrorists in their terrorist activities in Pakistan. OK I also assume its tehreek e talibaan who is behind all these attack on naval base, PAF base or GHQ but again what is their source of funding, training? where they get weapons from? Terrorism in India is not possible without support of ISI while terrorism in Pakistan is possible without support of any external forces or agencies


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## Safriz

Get back to the topic Plz..
http://goo.gl/maps/Ntzpf
Can somebody look at the Google map link and see if the Buildings..the large buildings are aircraft hangers?
This is the approximate place from where the terrorists entered and the Buildings are about 200 meters inside the boundary wall,which is at the edge of RPG effective range...


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## Imran Khan

PAF Ilyushin Il-78MP Midas MRTT (serial# R09-001) departing from PAF Base Minhas, Kamra, after the end of operation against terrorists on August 16, 2012.

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## Safriz

Imran Khan said:


> PAF Ilyushin Il-78MP Midas MRTT (serial# R09-001) departing from PAF Base Minhas, Kamra, after the end of operation against terrorists on August 16, 2012.


Glad to see the IL-78 safe and flying...

The Biggest Question mark is SAAB.....


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## Safriz

source Fourth assault on Kamra base since 2007 | DAWN.COM

Narrating the chronology of events, a counter-terrorism official said terrorists wearing army uniforms scaled 9-foot high barbed wire wall and crossed the first cordon of the base. The assailants had chosen to wear army uniforms because the security of the base was handled by army soldiers.

A guard at one of the watch towers noticed the intrusion and fired two warning shots before reporting to the control room.

In the meantime, the attackers donning suicide jackets and carrying RPGs dashed to the second cordon, about 100 yards away from the first one. It was here, the officials say, that *Sepoy Muhammad Asif Ramzan engaged them and held them up for 10-12 minutes*, providing ample time for the Quick Reaction Force and other reaction mechanisms of the base to get fully mobilised.

Sepoy Asif laid down his life protecting the base.

Before Asif breathed his last, a back-up led by base commander Air Commodore Azam had reinforced him. Air Cdr Azam was injured in the exchange of fire with the terrorists.

&#8220;Sepoy Asif Ramzan sacrificed his life in the first line of defence while fighting against the miscreants at PAF Base Minhas. With outstanding audacity, he failed the malign intentions of the miscreants,&#8221; the PAF spokesman said, noting the valour with which the soldier fought.

Two companies of special services commandos, almost 150 of them, were mobilised from nearby Tarbela.

The terrorists, it was said, could not get beyond the first cordon and were neutralised by the security forces.

&#8220;The terrorists attack was foiled through high preparedness of PAF,&#8221; a security official noted.



RECOGNITION: Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt announced Rs1 million for Sepoy Asif&#8217;s family and Prime Minister Ashraf attended his funeral and condoled with his family.


*********************************************************************

So the real hero of this incident was this one man,without whom the story could have been very different...

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## S_O_C_O_M

^^^^4th attack on Air Base and the Pakistan establishment has learnt NOTHING from these attacks. And then the below excerpt: 

*Intelligence reports warned last week that Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan was planning assaults on an air force base and other security establishments before Eid-ul-fitr, the three-day holiday beginning on Sunday to mark the end of the holy month of Ramadan.*

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

What kind of incomptent fools are running the show in Pakistan?


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## Safriz

S_O_C_O_M said:


> ^^^^4th attack on Air Base and the Pakistan establishment has learnt NOTHING from these attacks. And then the below excerpt:
> 
> *Intelligence reports warned last week that Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan was planning assaults on an air force base and other security establishments before Eid-ul-fitr, the three-day holiday beginning on Sunday to mark the end of the holy month of Ramadan.*
> 
> Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
> 
> What kind of incompetent fools are running the show in Pakistan?



Actually this intelligence is at least 4 months old and the security inside the Airbase was beefed up immediately...
The problem is that Pakistan armed forces don't have Jurisdiction outside the premises of the Airbase and so the intelligence was passed on to Police to keep the area outside the airbase secure...
and you know our police very well

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## MastanKhan

S_O_C_O_M said:


> ^^^^4th attack on Air Base and the Pakistan establishment has learnt NOTHING from these attacks. And then the below excerpt:
> 
> *Intelligence reports warned last week that Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan was planning assaults on an air force base and other security establishments before Eid-ul-fitr, the three-day holiday beginning on Sunday to mark the end of the holy month of Ramadan.*
> 
> Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
> 
> What kind of incomptent fools are running the show in Pakistan?



You don't know by now---General Kiyani---.


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

I am surprised at this scenery of this air base-----so many trees so close on inside of the base----that is an immense security hazzard in itself----.

I have lived in the viccinity of couple of air bases in the u s and at times drive by a few-----there is hardly any tree in the viccinity of march air reserv e base---there were no trees around hill air force base---hardly anything around davis----.

This base has a forest next to it and green trees inside of it----what a surprise---.

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## Dazzler

NO Saab 2000 damaged or destroyed! They reside in hardened shelters with extra concrete protection, same with JFTs there. Terrorists couldnt reach so deep inside the base, they were contained within a 100 meter radius by forces.

All intact and safe, reports of very mild damage (surface/ paint) to an IL-78.

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## Safriz

A pattern has emerged in terrorist attacks on Pakistani forces...

October 2009 GHQ attack (Attack on Pakistan Army)
May 2011 PNS Mehran attack (Attack on Pakistan Navy)
August 2012 PAF Kamra Minhas attack (Attack on PAF)

Thats all three forces dealt with....



nabil_05 said:


> NO Saab 2000 damaged or destroyed! They reside in hardened shelters with extra concrete protection, same with JFTs there. Terrorists couldnt reach so deep inside the base, they were contained within a 100 meter radius by forces.
> 
> All intact and safe, reports of very mild damage (surface/ paint) to an IL-78.



Hi Nabil...

RPG has an effective range of 200 meters and some aircraft hangers are within that range from the rear Boundary wall .. It is Plausible that terrorist RPG did hit the aircraft hanger...

Although all of us wish that SAAB AWACS are safe....

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## RazPaK

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am surprised at this scenery of this air base-----so many trees so close on inside of the base----that is an immense security hazzard in itself----.
> 
> I have lived in the viccinity of couple of air bases in the u s and at times drive by a few-----there is hardly any tree in the viccinity of march air reserv e base---there were no trees around hill air force base---hardly anything around davis----.
> 
> This base has a forest next to it and green trees inside of it----what a surprise---.



Very happy you mentioned this. My father in his airforce days would use a tree to hop the fence in Kohat to go out for the night. It became such a problem that they had to cut it down.

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## Scorpius

Scummy bastards, good to see they got killed. Hope this new op in NWFP sorts things out too.


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## Dazzler

Safriz said:


> A pattern has emerged in terrorist attacks on Pakistani forces...
> 
> October 2009 GHQ attack (Attack on Pakistan Army)
> May 2011 PNS Mehran attack (Attack on Pakistan Navy)
> August 2012 PAF Kamra Minhas attack (Attack on PAF)
> 
> Thats all three forces dealt with....
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Nabil...
> 
> RPG has an effective range of 200 meters and some aircraft hangers are within that range from the rear Boundary wall .. It is Plausible that terrorist RPG did hit the aircraft hanger...
> 
> Although all of us wish that SAAB AWACS are safe....



They used grenades but just a couple of RPG fires were detected, one hit the gate and another is reportedly went astray from target, noting that it did not destroy an aircraft.

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## Safriz

nabil_05 said:


> They used grenades but just a couple of RPG fires were detected, one hit the gate and another is reportedly went astray from target, noting that it did not destroy an aircraft.



That is very good news.....
Thanks.


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## S_O_C_O_M

Safriz said:


> Actually this intelligence is at least 4 months old and the security inside the Airbase was beefed up immediately...
> 
> *The problem is that Pakistan armed forces don't have Jurisdiction outside the premises of the Airbase* and so the intelligence was passed on to Police to keep the area outside the airbase secure...
> and you know our police very well




The Pak establishment is going to follow this law in this case but they are going to make exceptions to this law for Pakistan armed forces conducting operations in West Pakistan. Protecting airbases and other installations that are vital to national security should follow the same provisional exceptions as military operations in West Pak. 

Pakistan's national security is being jeopardized by incompetence/corruption/negligence. 

Pakistan military and civilian leadership is clearly inept. These people look like fools when they are shown celebrating an attack that was repelled when it should not have occured in the first place and/or have attained the depth of penetration as it did. 

Now I begin to question the "government within the government." Have they lost their effectiveness in gathering intelligence and subverting the schemes of those wish to do Pakistan harm? There have been successive failures by both Military and ISI and yet nothing seems to change.

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## TVVELVEMO$

Commiserations with the downed Pakistani warrior(s) and his next of kin. It does raise questions about who is the enemy and do Pakistanis fully grasp the enormity of the problem. When the affinity of one's own homeland is replaced with blind trust of alien indoctrination, you get killer zombees.

Yes your Nukes are safe for now. Yes you killed all of them. Yes your reaction was better. But...their spokesman is still out there taking interviews and planning another embarrasment for your nation. And you know what, this guy is in Pakistan not in St. elsewhere. To compensate for only one aircraft, these Beardos (aka miscreants) then chased down a bus and killed a dozen innocent Pakistanis, who happened to be from a minority faith. I do not see anyone too cut up about that here? Are you in denial?

My information may be ultimately incorrect but the damaged aircraft may have been a China-Pak JF-17 Thunder on the flighline. My source?..well he may put that in Wiki. But don't wait up for that though.

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## Safriz

TVVELVEMO$ said:


> Commiserations with the downed Pakistani warrior(s) and his next of kin. It does raise questions about who is the enemy and do Pakistanis fully grasp the enormity of the problem. When the affinity of one's own homeland is replaced with blind trust of alien indoctrination, you get killer zombees.
> 
> Yes your Nukes are safe for now. Yes you killed all of them. Yes your reaction was better. But...their spokesman is still out there taking interviews and planning another embarrasment for your nation. And you know what, this guy is in Pakistan not in St. elsewhere. To compensate for only one aircraft, these Beardos (aka miscreants) then chased down a bus and killed a dozen innocent Pakistanis, who happened to be from a minority faith. I do not see anyone too cut up about that here? Are you in denial?
> 
> My information may be ultimately incorrect but the damaged aircraft may have been a China-Pak JF-17 Thunder on the flighline. My source?..well he may put that in Wiki. But don't wait up for that though.



Pakistan is doing what they can...and have no foreign support..
On the other hand TTP have all the foreign support they want and that includes training and ammunition from Afghanistan based ISAF/NATO/USA forces and that for us is a fact.

While USA pressurises Pakistan to act against only one type of terrorists that is the ones from Pak-Afghan borders..and totally opposes any action against another terrorists the Baloch terrorists....
Pakistan cannot comply with such two faced demands from USA...
On one hand they say a terrorist is a terrorist,no matter what nationality,religion cast or creed..
On other hand they are openly supporing one terrorist group BLA,and most probably supporting TTP also but that cannot be proved..
But USA's support for terrorist BLA is open and in the news...

Still you think Pakistan should listen to USA?


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## Amavous

Asalam - O - Alikum
Below artical from "The News"

*&#8216;Damaged Awacs aircraft repairable&#8217;*
Hanif Khalid
Friday, August 17, 2012
From Print Edition

ISLAMABAD: *A nozzle of an Airborne Warning and Control System (Awacs) aircraft was damaged as a rocket-propelled grenade hit it when terrorists stormed Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Airbase Minhas in Kamra on Thursday. However, the aircraft is repairable, Minister for Defence Syed Naveed Qamar said.
*

*&#8220;The engineers and technicians of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex have examined the partially damaged aircraft, and according to the initial report, this most advanced Awacs aircraft of the Saab-2000 category can be repaired,&#8221;* said the defence minister while talking to The News at an Iftar-dinner hosted by the Iranian ambassador here on Thursday. &#8220;A test flight of the aircraft will be conducted after repairing it,&#8221; he added.

According to sources, three to four dozen aircraft were present at the airbase when the terrorists launched the attack. Most of these aircraft were brought to Kamra for overhauling and repair.

Syed Naveed Qamar, who was chief guest at the Iftar dinner, said that the Pakistan-Iran friendship should be promoted for the mutual interest of the two countries. He said all avenues would be explored to enhance cooperation between the two countries in the defence sector and all resources would be utilised for this purpose. 

He said the Pak-Iran economic cooperation would also be promoted and the Pak-Iran gas pipeline would be completed without any further delay.

Allah Hafiz
--------------

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## Dil Pakistan

Jang also reporting that SAAB2000 has taken a hit but can be repaired.

This is really annoyning, given that there was an intelligence report that attack is imminent. I am really angry


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## SamantK

Safriz said:


> Pakistan is doing what they can...and have no foreign support..
> On the other hand TTP have all the foreign support they want and that includes training and ammunition from Afghanistan based ISAF/NATO/USA forces and that for us is a fact.



Im sure Paksitan can do more than what it is doing, last time Paksitan did something TTP was born and then nothing happened.. Paksitan IMO has to go the whole nine yards now..


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## Safriz

samantk said:


> Im sure Paksitan can do more than what it is doing, last time Paksitan did something TTP was born and then nothing happened.. Paksitan IMO has to go the whole nine yards now..



The one thing Pakistan cannot do and wont even try to do is to please India as that is impossible.


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## Safriz

Amavous said:


> Asalam - O - Alikum
> Below artical from "The News"
> 
> *&#8216;Damaged Awacs aircraft repairable&#8217;*
> Hanif Khalid
> Friday, August 17, 2012
> From Print Edition
> 
> ISLAMABAD: *A nozzle of an Airborne Warning and Control System (Awacs) aircraft was damaged as a rocket-propelled grenade hit it when terrorists stormed Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Airbase Minhas in Kamra on Thursday. However, the aircraft is repairable, Minister for Defence Syed Naveed Qamar said.
> *
> 
> *&#8220;The engineers and technicians of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex have examined the partially damaged aircraft, and according to the initial report, this most advanced Awacs aircraft of the Saab-2000 category can be repaired,&#8221;* said the defence minister while talking to The News at an Iftar-dinner hosted by the Iranian ambassador here on Thursday. &#8220;A test flight of the aircraft will be conducted after repairing it,&#8221; he added.
> 
> According to sources, three to four dozen aircraft were present at the airbase when the terrorists launched the attack. Most of these aircraft were brought to Kamra for overhauling and repair.
> 
> Syed Naveed Qamar, who was chief guest at the Iftar dinner, said that the Pakistan-Iran friendship should be promoted for the mutual interest of the two countries. He said all avenues would be explored to enhance cooperation between the two countries in the defence sector and all resources would be utilised for this purpose.
> 
> He said the Pak-Iran economic cooperation would also be promoted and the Pak-Iran gas pipeline would be completed without any further delay.
> 
> Allah Hafiz
> --------------



This was a statement by a civilian guy at an iftar party..
Not an official statement and i am reluctant to believe this...
We all know the professional competence of our Ministers..

What does he mean by "A nozzle"?


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## TalibanSwatter

DAWN

As with previous attacks, the possibility of insider help to the militants in the assault on Kamra is also very high. From sympathisers of radical Islamist thought to direct supporters of militant groups, the army appears to have a militancy problem, the severity of which is hidden from the public because investigations and court martials are often carried out in secret. The wider concern going forward ought to have the army&#8217;s screening procedures: how robust and effective is the surveillance and vetting of the armed forces&#8217; personnel to prevent an incident before it happens? Clearly, as recent history suggests, not robust or effective enough &#8212; but what will it take for a more serious and sustained effort? 

Finally, the question that has bedevilled the fight against militancy: when will the state, both the army and the political government, drive home the message to the Pakistani public that the war is real, it is against a radicalised fringe of Pakistan and that unless the war is fought withtotal commitment and purpose, the state and society itself will spiral towards irreversible disaster? Gen Kayani&#8217;s Independence Day message contained the first strands of that message but it has to be sustained and spread to the farthest corners of the country. The ones shouting &#8216;this isn&#8217;t our war&#8217; &#8212; many on the political right &#8212; need to be countered, firmly and uneq-uivocally. Delay that battle any longer and the already manifold complications will grow yet more complicated.


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## fatman17

*U.S.: Pakistan Capable Of Securing Nuclear Arsenal*

August 17, 2012 | 0225 GMT 


The U.S. government Aug. 16 expressed confidence in the Pakistani government's ability to secure its nuclear arsenal following attacks on an air base in that country, Xinhua reported. U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said the United States is confident that Pakistan is aware of the range of potential threats to its nuclear arsenal and has secured it accordingly. Nuland said that Pakistan issued a statement denying that there was either any nuclear material or any nukes at the air base that was attacked, adding that the United States does not have any information that would contradict that.

_the global master has spoken! so chill again!_

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## Safriz

TalibanSwatter said:


> DAWN
> 
> As with previous attacks, the possibility of insider help to the militants in the assault on Kamra is also very high. From sympathisers of radical Islamist thought to direct supporters of militant groups, the army appears to have a militancy problem, the severity of which is hidden from the public because investigations and court martials are often carried out in secret. The wider concern going forward ought to have the army&#8217;s screening procedures: how robust and effective is the surveillance and vetting of the armed forces&#8217; personnel to prevent an incident before it happens? Clearly, as recent history suggests, not robust or effective enough &#8212; but what will it take for a more serious and sustained effort?
> 
> Finally, the question that has bedevilled the fight against militancy: when will the state, both the army and the political government, drive home the message to the Pakistani public that the war is real, it is against a radicalised fringe of Pakistan and that unless the war is fought withtotal commitment and purpose, the state and society itself will spiral towards irreversible disaster? Gen Kayani&#8217;s Independence Day message contained the first strands of that message but it has to be sustained and spread to the farthest corners of the country. The ones shouting &#8216;this isn&#8217;t our war&#8217; &#8212; many on the political right &#8212; need to be countered, firmly and uneq-uivocally. Delay that battle any longer and the already manifold complications will grow yet more complicated.



54 people have been arrested so far for investigations...
Hopefully the truth will come out soon.

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## SamantK

Safriz said:


> The one thing Pakistan cannot do and wont even try to do is to please India as that is impossible.



Keep enjoying these attacks then, and wait for their spokesperson...

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## alibaz

Second injure of Kamra attack Sepoy Muhammad Iqbal has embraced shahadat thereby taking causalities to two. ARY News
Inna Lillah he wa inna aliehe Rajeoon.

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## Safriz

samantk said:


> Keep enjoying these attacks then, and wait for their spokesperson...


 
You keep beleiving in some phony 'spokes person' speakinb from inside a donkeys arse .... We have our reservation on 'spokes persons' authenticity.

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## SamantK

Safriz said:


> You keep beleiving in some phony 'spokes person' speakinb from inside a donkeys arse .... We have our reservation on 'spokes persons' authenticity.



It does not matter what I believe in.. Neither your army nor your govt raised doubts the authenticity yet.. Oh i'm sorry you are the spokesperson, right!


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## Safriz

samantk said:


> It does not matter what I believe in.. The army nor your govt raised about the authenticity yet.. Oh i'm sorry you are the spokesperson, right!


 
Everybody raised suspicon,you chose not to read.

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## SamantK

Safriz said:


> Everybody raised suspicon,you chose not to read.


 Members can *doubt*, they only can... Btw why not launch major offensive and finish these swines, at least from your land?


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## Safriz

samantk said:


> Members can *doubt*, they only can... Btw why not launch major offensive and finish these swines, at least from your land?


 
Because no point.
They will do what they always do..
Run into afghanistan and sit in the lapse of ISAF.. 
They wont secure their side of the border.


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## Awesome

Mani2020 said:


> The most baffling thing for me is the senior and credible guys on the sister forum who always share some inside tid bids are also silent in the issue and besides every one asking about the exact loss no one of them has replied so far...it may be they are not online ,,,or up with other stuff ...but all we can say is speculation
> 
> let me ask pshamim sahib ...may be he can shed some light



Tight lipped about what?

A lot of info is out public, what do you want to know?


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## SamantK

Safriz said:


> Because no point.
> They will do what they always do..
> Run into afghanistan and sit in the lapse of ISAF..
> They wont secure their side of the border.



Secure yours, remove the sympathisers in your country, many think help came from inside, even the news especially in the Mehran attack..


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## SamantK

Safriz said:


> Because no point.
> They will do what they always do..
> Run into afghanistan and sit in the lapse of ISAF..
> They wont secure their side of the border.



Secure yours, remove the sympathisers in your country, many think help came from inside, even the news especially in the Mehran attack..


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## Mercenary

fatman17 said:


> *U.S.: Pakistan Capable Of Securing Nuclear Arsenal*
> 
> August 17, 2012 | 0225 GMT
> 
> 
> The U.S. government Aug. 16 expressed confidence in the Pakistani government's ability to secure its nuclear arsenal following attacks on an air base in that country, Xinhua reported. U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said the United States is confident that Pakistan is aware of the range of potential threats to its nuclear arsenal and has secured it accordingly. Nuland said that Pakistan issued a statement denying that there was either any nuclear material or any nukes at the air base that was attacked, adding that the United States does not have any information that would contradict that.
> 
> _the global master has spoken! so chill again!_



Pakistani Nukes are de-mated with the warhead, delivery mechanism and trigger keys all kept in separate locations.

Pakistani Nuclear Silos are deep underground with a labyrinth of security mechanisms in place.

Even if the Taliban manage to break into a Nuclear Silo and steal a nuclear weapon, it will be useless.

The only thing they can do is make a dirty bomb out of it.


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## Mercenary

fatman17 said:


> *U.S.: Pakistan Capable Of Securing Nuclear Arsenal*
> 
> August 17, 2012 | 0225 GMT
> 
> 
> The U.S. government Aug. 16 expressed confidence in the Pakistani government's ability to secure its nuclear arsenal following attacks on an air base in that country, Xinhua reported. U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said the United States is confident that Pakistan is aware of the range of potential threats to its nuclear arsenal and has secured it accordingly. Nuland said that Pakistan issued a statement denying that there was either any nuclear material or any nukes at the air base that was attacked, adding that the United States does not have any information that would contradict that.
> 
> _the global master has spoken! so chill again!_



Pakistani Nukes are de-mated with the warhead, delivery mechanism and trigger keys all kept in separate locations.

Pakistani Nuclear Silos are deep underground with a labyrinth of security mechanisms in place.

Even if the Taliban manage to break into a Nuclear Silo and steal a nuclear weapon, it will be useless.

The only thing they can do is make a dirty bomb out of it.


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## Tehmasib

Sepoy Muhammad Iqbal who was injured also shaheed now. Nos of shaheed is now 2. Salute to DSG 






Shaheed Sep Muhammad Asif

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## waraich66

Very bad news , shame on armed forces security teams .

I dont know why they dont install CCTV cameras etc or may be it is inside coordinated attack 

GHQ,NAVAL BASE and now Air Base , which place in Pakistan is safe?


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## waraich66

Pakistan need special security forces , all miltery bases should be atleast 50 KM from cities .towns or villages


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## third eye

Mercenary said:


> Pakistani Nukes are de-mated with the warhead, delivery mechanism and trigger keys all kept in separate locations.
> 
> Pakistani Nuclear Silos are deep underground with a labyrinth of security mechanisms in place.
> 
> Even if the Taliban manage to break into a Nuclear Silo and steal a nuclear weapon, it will be useless.
> 
> *The only thing they can do is make a dirty bomb out of it.*



Only thing ???

This is exactly what the world fears and you make light of it !!!


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## karan.1970

Anyone wondering why ISPR has not yet come out with a statement/press release ...??


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## shree835

By carrying out a terrorist strike against the Minhas Air Base, the Tehreek-e-Taliban targeted perhaps the most important base-cum-aeronautical complex of Pakistan Air Force.

It is like having Ambala air base with HAL Nashik and HAL Kanpur thrown in together. It is the most important PAF facility, said a recently retired Indian Air Force chief.


Among other things, said another retired Indian air chief, the base serves as the place for preparing Pakistans nuclear aerial delivery platforms and systems.

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex adjacent to the base is the site for the fighter upgrade programs for Pakistans F-16s, Mirage IIs, Chengdu FC-10s and the Chengdu F-6 fighters and Shenyang FT-6 trainers.

The base is also being used to test-fly the JF-17 Thunderbird multi-role fighter. This fighter, which Pakistan has developed in conjunction with China and is equipped with a Russian RD-93 engine, is likely to be the mainstay of the air force.

The Kamra base hosts the 33 multi-role fighter wing of the air force, one squadron of JF-17 and one squadron of FT-6 trainers. The airbase also houses the countrys crucial airborne early warning systems and other electronic warfare planes.

The PAF was able to counter the attack within hours in large part because the base was on high alert because of Independence Day celebrations and intelligence reports that a large attack was being planned.

Why Taliban targeted Minhas base : Indian Perspective | idrw.org


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## iPhone

It's a crying, crying shame that brazen attacks like this continually happen and the perpetrators are allowed to live. TTP sits in Pakistan, plans and kills innocent Pakistanis and its mouthpiece spokesman keeps on taunting Pak army and no action is taken against them.

They grow bolder and bolder. They attack check posts, take Pak soldiers prisoners, cut their heads off, show them to the entire world and boldly claim they'll do it again, stop us if you can but this gutless and incompetent bunch in the higher up don't flinch.

They attack Pak military bases, destroy expensive assets, brave soldiers die in the line of duty yet these gutless generals continue to watch the country bleed at he hands of these merciless thugs.

Where is their courage, their bravery, their intellect and most of all balls to take difficult decisions. How dare they show their faces to the nation and their inflated chests with hundreds of decorative commedation. For what? What did they do to earn those?

Their apologists on this very forum continue to defend their incompetence. We can't take action because he nation is not ready, courts are forgiving of the militants, human rights activists are gonna bad mouth us, these are their lame excuses. 

Bunch of lazy and incompetent fools defending others like them. Let me tell you something, this leadership both civil and military is gutless. They don't have the balls do what's necessary. 

When ttp went public with their first attack they should have been ravaged. To hell with the human right activists and court proceedings and doing the right thing. They should have been strung up side down from the highest tree with their guts leaking for the rest of them to see. 

This is how you put an end to madness. Hidig behind the guise of nobility is a standard of a coward. And we got hem aplenty in our leadership.

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## TalibanSwatter

Safriz said:


> 54 people have been arrested so far for investigations...
> Hopefully the truth will come out soon.



The radicalised fringe the DAWN editorial talks about is infact the underlying ideology and worldview promoted by the TTP and its supporters. The doctrine is basically a set of Salafi tenets imported from the Salafi/Wahabi clergy in Saudi - a regressive tribal doctrine masquerading as religion that was put on steroids over the last two decades thanks to saudi-petro dollars, the proxy war betwwen Saudi and Iran, and the Afghan war.

Pakistani intelligence and US govt. has admitted on several occasions that at least a third of the funding for the TTP(a blend of punjabi taliban, LeJ and KP militants)comes from the Saudi Salafi network in the Gulf with ideological support.

The TTP land grab in Swat in 2009 was an attempt to setup a Salafi-run fiefdom in the region. Militant activities such as blowing up shrines, girl's schools, targeting and killing Shias, are all avowed objectives of Salafi/Wahabi jihadists around the world. And of course they despise the democratic form of governance and consider it "unislamic" - which is why the TTP recently rubbished Imran Khan's proposed peace march.

Clearly, the TTP is the flagbearer of the Salafi network in Pakistan. It is like a rabid dog that needs to be put to sleep. There is no room for negotiation.

Of course, TTP has supporters in the political domain, especially Jamaat Islami - a party who actually has been known to shelter Al Qaeda militants in the past, as well as providing medical supplies to TTP militants during the Swat offensive under the guise of Al Khidmat trust.

While it is time to dismantle the TTP hub in NWA, we also need to tighten the screws on their sympathizers in JI as well as fringe elements in the military. The attacks on Mehran Base, GHQ and to a lesser degree in Kamra could not have taken place without insider information.

Gen Kayani's recent address is appreciated. That said, actions speak louder than words. GHQ needs to walk the talk. Time to bury its monster child - once and for all.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ziristan-begin-after-eid-5.html#ixzz23mlEtCNt

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## Edevelop

Lingering questions: Is something being hidden about the militants&#8217; approach?

ISLAMABAD: 
Despite the relative success of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in repelling a militant raid, some lingering questions remain about the militants&#8217; approach and choice of targets.
The official version of the PAF is different from what sources told The Express Tribune. *According to a PAF spokesman, the militants climbed the boundary wall to enter the premises of the base and were intercepted by Sepoy Asif Ramzan, who was guarding a post. Ramzan suffered bullet injuries and later died.*
However, sources said that, apparently aware of the heavy security presence on the main route that passes through the GT Road, the militants used another road that links Attock with GT road.
Dressed in military uniform, they travelled in a double-cabin jeep similar to the ones used by security officials and passed through some army installations, including an army check post before entering the premises. When their vehicle was stopped at the second check post in the vicinity of PAF Minhas, the militants exited the car all guns blazing. One source added that the driver of the vehicle managed to escape in the jeep. The footage of the vehicle was recorded by a CCTV camera located on the post, the source claimed. Surprisingly, there is no mention of this vehicle in PAF&#8217;s official version so far.

Then there was the apparent knowledge of what they were attacking.
According to insiders, Kamra airbase is one of the most sophisticated installations of PAF and the major overhauling facility for all types of fighter jets used by the air force. &#8220;*The militants chose the base side where the Saab-2000 aircraft were parked,&#8221; they said.*

*Pakistan has a total of three Sweden manufactured Saab-2000 aircrafts, the most sophisticated surveillance aircraft the country has now.* Saab-2000 look like 737 passenger planes but are equipped with state-of-the-art radar systems for surveillance.

*It is not clear if it was a Saab-2000 that was damaged during the attack. &#8220;I can tell you that one plane was damaged and it suffered a substantial damage. I cannot reveal the name of the craft&#8230; please wait for the inquiry report,&#8221; said Tariq Mehmood, the PAF spokesman.*

*All PAF installations are guarded by the Defence Services Guard, including Minhas base, which is an elite wing of the PAF. After similar attacks on security establishments, the PAF deployed its special services wing personnel to guard all its bases. They are specially trained commandos like SSG commandos of the Pakistan Army.*

Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt, Chief of the Air Staff of PAF has constituted a board of inquiry headed by Air Marshal Syed Athar Hussain Bukhari to probe the various key aspects of the brazen assault.

Lingering questions: Is something being hidden about the militants


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## karan.1970

The silence of ISPR and the fact that for 4-5 hours the terrorists were in the facility and were not able to do any damage makes the whole thing look a little too suspicious.. Either a major coverup in in progress or a surprise is going to hit all of us when ISPR comes out with a final report..



karan.1970 said:


> NW is a different ball game. PA is officially on record, denying any NW operation. Now to tow the American line and undertake that operation, they need a viable justification. What better than an attack by Taliban on the Military assets that most Pakistanis hold dearer than their lives...



And the narrative continues to build

Kamra attack shows need for North Waziristan offensive | DAWN.COM

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistani Talibans brazen attack on a major air force base near the capital underscores the need for the Pakistani armys planned offensive against the group in its last major sanctuary along the Afghan border. 

But the operation in the remote, mountainous North Waziristan tribal area is fraught with danger, both in terms of battling the Taliban and avoiding combat with other militants who are not viewed by the state as a threat because they have focused their attacks on Nato and Afghan forces inside neighbouring Afghanistan.

The United States has repeatedly pressed Pakistan to attack this latter group of militants in North Waziristan, especially the so-called Haqqani network. But the offensive is likely to disappoint on that front and is shaping up to be much less dramatic than the type Washington has long wanted.

The major perceived threat for Islamabad is definitely the Talibans Pakistani branch, which has waged a bloody insurgency in the country for years that has killed over 30,000 people.

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## Haseebullah

Sepoy Asif Ramzan sacrificed his life for his motherland with great courage.

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## Mani2020

the guy who, i quoted yesterday has revealed today that the 3 aircrafts he was mentioning about are indeed saab-2000 out of which 1 is completely destroyed while two sustain damage ....and he is betting his whole credibility our his claim

while the people who were questioning that there was no fire what so ever then how come an aircraft got destroyed that badly,had there been any such major damage there would have been some fire or smoke there 

here is the pic taken by a civilian which shows the smoke and fire 






*I think there is seriously something wrong*


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## Roybot

Mani2020 said:


> *I think there is seriously something wrong*



That photo is from PNS Mehran attack.

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## Icarus

third eye said:


> Only thing ???
> 
> This is exactly what the world fears and you make light of it !!!




Without any detonators, the best they can do is introduce the fissile material to cause local contamination. In which case the terrorist themselves will be dead within 3 minutes of coming into contact with fissile material. The concept of the dirty bomb has been rebuked by many nuclear diplomatists. It's impossible.


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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> Without any detonators, the best they can do is introduce the fissile material to cause local contamination. In which case the terrorist themselves will be dead within 3 minutes of coming into contact with fissile material. The concept of the dirty bomb has been rebuked by many nuclear diplomatists. It's impossible.



Looking at the 9 idiots who stormed Kamra yesterday, do you think dying within 3 minutes is an kind of deterant for them?


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## Icarus

karan.1970 said:


> Looking at the 9 idiots who stormed Kamra yesterday, do you think dying within 3 minutes is an kind of deterant for them?



It's not but it's going to be a problem taking that material to it's intended target after it has been stolen, when the terrorists carrying it are dead themselves.


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## Mani2020

Roybot said:


> That photo is from PNS Mehran attack.



then why geodost is showing this?


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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> It's not but it's going to be a problem taking that material to it's intended target after it has been stolen, when the terrorists carrying it are dead themselves.



You are I both know there are ways.. Lead boxes.. Multiple teams.. One thing terrorists are best at is finding unorthodox and unprecedented ways of achieving impossible looking audacious tasks.. Who could have thought of using civilian airlines as missiles before 9/11


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## Roybot

Mani2020 said:


> then why geodost is showing this?



I have no idea what Geodost is, but a quick google image search will tell you that picture is from May, 2011.

Pakistan: attaque terroriste dans une base militaire à Karachi, quatre morts - A la Une : LaDépêche.fr


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## IceCold

Never in the history of Pakistan have our installations been hit like these and our prized assets being destroyed in peace time. 

The government has become an absolute joke and so is our judiciary and politicians. The mother fckers cant see what's happening around them. The so called political gains have clouded their judgement and to outsmart the other they have forgot 

what their real purpose was. Sadly Judiciary too is playing in the hands of these thugs and the Nation is as usual sleeping. I was amazed that most of people in my office were not even aware of this attack. The same is the case else where. People are busy in eid shopping while top military installations are being hit.

What have we become a banana republic? 

Another sad day in our history and once again while we all going to remember 9/11 and 26/11, this one will just pass as another day in our miserable low life.

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## Icarus

karan.1970 said:


> You are I both know there are ways.. Lead boxes.. Multiple teams.. One thing terrorists are best at is finding unorthodox and unprecedented ways of achieving impossible looking audacious tasks.. Who could have thought of using civilian airlines as missiles before 9/11




Your regular lead box wont cut it, see it's weapons grade Uranium we are discussing here. First thing first, it's impossible to get to, our nuclear assets are not based on airbases or cantonments rather they are independent. Secondly, this material even when in lead lined containers and rooms is dealt with by people outside in full radiation suits. Even then there are elevated instances of cancer sufferers among nuclear scientists. Like I said before, the terrorists will be dead before they even get it to their vehicle.


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## Kompromat

Attack on NW will not mean end of terror it means prepare for thousands more dead , millions in property damage , many soldiers killed , and an unstopable spree of suicide attacks. It also means , millions of new IDPs stackes up on already existing largest IDP population on the planet !


I understand that NW operation has earned value among many in Pakistan , buy my own naiev logic tells to 'spray the bottom of the fire' and declare exit from this war !

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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> Your regular lead box wont cut it, see it's weapons grade Uranium we are discussing here. First thing first, it's impossible to get to, our nuclear assets are not based on airbases or cantonments rather they are independent. Secondly, this material even when in lead lined containers and rooms is dealt with by people outside in full radiation suits. Even then there are elevated instances of cancer sufferers among nuclear scientists. Like I said before, the terrorists will be dead before they even get it to their vehicle.



While I will not debate the 1st aspect of your post (stealing the material) due to obvious sensitivities and there not being any sure shot way of proving either view point, the later aspect can surely be discussed. Simply put, the weapons grade nuclear material is transported in real life. If it can be transported by military, it surely can be transported by terrorists.. The availability of resources to these terrorists is no longer a question. They today have access to virtually every equipment available to a normal 3rd world country's army


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## Icarus

Aeronaut said:


> Attack on NW will not mean end of terror it means prepare for thousands more dead , millions in property damage , many soldiers killed , and an unstopable spree of suicide attacks. It also means , millions of new IDPs stackes up on already existing largest IDP population on the planet !
> 
> 
> I understand that NW operation has earned value among many in Pakistan , buy my own naiev logic tells to 'spray the bottom of the fire' and declare exit from this war !




NWA Op will represent the fall of the last bastion of the TTP in Pakistan, it will mean the end of attacks in Pakistan. We may have to deal with elevated number of terrorist incidents in the first few weeks but if I lived over half a decade like this, another few months won't deter me from a promise of a brighter tomorrow. 
Even if we do take your advice and pull out, do you think that the TTP will stop attacking us and go to their respective homes? Is that what they did when we agreed to their demands and relinquished control of NWA to them in the first place? Or did they make good on their promise after we left Swat to their mercy? The only talib I trust is a dead one, even then I'd shoot them again to make sure.



karan.1970 said:


> While I will not debate the 1st aspect of your post (stealing the material) due to obvious sensitivities and there not being any sure shot way of proving either view point, the later aspect can surely be discussed. Simply put, the weapons grade nuclear material is transported in real life. If it can be transported by military, it surely can be transported by terrorists.. The availability of resources to these terrorists is no longer a question. They today have access to virtually every equipment available to a normal 3rd world country's army



Agreed, the military does transport weapons grade uranium and plutonium but the material is housed in special casings that are custom made for this specific purpose. These casings cannot be bought over the black market but are rather manufactured by the country that has weapons grade nuclear material. Even if the Taliban find one, it can't be opened simply by popping the lid out, they can't cut through it either.

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## Edevelop

Aeronaut said:


> Attack on NW will not mean end of terror it means prepare for thousands more dead , millions in property damage , many soldiers killed , and an unstopable spree of suicide attacks. It also means , millions of new IDPs stackes up on already existing largest IDP population on the planet !
> 
> 
> I understand that NW operation has earned value among many in Pakistan , buy my own naiev logic tells to 'spray the bottom of the fire' and declare exit from this war !



Well I believe the way to end this war is to win people's hearts. How this is possible is by providing education and employment opportunities. Another thing i've mentioned previously is that the Afghan-Pak border needs to be fenced. In other words, we need to secure our position so we could avoid foreign spy games, and any other terrorism related activities


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## swathi

Icarus said:


> NWA Op will represent the fall of the last bastion of the TTP in Pakistan, it will mean the end of attacks in Pakistan. We may have to deal with elevated number of terrorist incidents in the first few weeks but if I lived over half a decade like this, another few months won't deter me from a promise of a brighter tomorrow.
> Even if we do take your advice and pull out, do you think that the TTP will stop attacking us and go to their respective homes? Is that what they did when we agreed to their demands and relinquished control of NWA to them in the first place? Or did they make good on their promise after we left Swat to their mercy? The only talib I trust is a dead one, even then I'd shoot them again to make sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, the military does transport weapons grade uranium and plutonium but the material is housed in special casings that are custom made for this specific purpose. These casings cannot be bought over the black market but are rather manufactured by the country that has weapons grade nuclear material. Even if the Taliban find one, it can't be opened simply by popping the lid out, they can't cut through it either.



If it was the Last bastion of the TTP alone , Pakistan would have entered there long ago, The problem it houses various other networks such as Haqqani, Mullah Nazir, Hafiz gul bahadhur and uzbek miliants and Arabs. Pakistan concern is Haqqani network and Mullah nazir faction, I have not added hafiz gul bahadhur faction because he is already in the fence, The aim of pakistan army would be to flush out TTP militants without distrubing haqqani and mullah nazir factions.


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## Peaceful Civilian

I hope saab are safe.
Officials can't hide anything.


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## Windjammer

Mani2020 said:


> then why geodost is showing this?



Dude we have a Mad Dog media, as i said elsewhere, few months earlier, some dry grass far away from any facility, caught fire in the same complex and obviously some smoke was seen rising out of it.....next day, Express carried the story, claiming several million worth of damage due to a fire in the Mirage Rebuild Factory...... which was totally false reporting.

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## Icarus

swathi said:


> If it was the Last bastion of the TTP alone , Pakistan would have entered there long ago, The problem it houses various other networks such as Haqqani, Mullah Nazir, Hafiz gul bahadhur and uzbek miliants and Arabs. Pakistan concern is Haqqani network and Mullah nazir faction, I have not added hafiz gul bahadhur faction because he is already in the fence, The aim of pakistan army would be to flush out TTP militants without distrubing haqqani and mullah nazir factions.




That is impossible, the moment we enter NWA, the situation will become clear. I think that we'll have to fight everybody but I would love to be proven wrong and see Haqqanis and Afghan Taliban just leave the area rather than put up a fight against us because that would make our job all the more difficult. We cannot operate without disturbing them because it's impossible to remove the mango from a mango milkshake. NWA is a huge mango milkshake with all the ingredients so well mixed that they can't be separated from one another.

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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> PAF Ilyushin Il-78MP Midas MRTT (serial# R09-001) departing from PAF Base Minhas, Kamra, after the end of operation against terrorists on August 16, 2012.



This aircraft was flown to Chaklala.


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## nwmalik

Icarus said:


> Without any detonators, the best they can do is introduce the fissile material to cause local contamination. In which case the terrorist themselves will be dead within 3 minutes of coming into contact with fissile material. The concept of the dirty bomb has been rebuked by many nuclear diplomatists. It's impossible.



hence the name suicide bomber


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## Jango

The story is not out.


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## karan.1970

nuclearpak said:


> This aircraft was flown to Chaklala.



But isnt this the aircraft that was in the open.. Then it leads to an assumption that it was not this aircraft that was damaged...



nuclearpak said:


> The story is not out.



what story


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## Jango

karan.1970 said:


> But isnt this the aircraft that was in the open.. Then it leads to an assumption that it was not this aircraft that was damaged...
> 
> 
> 
> what story



This aircraft was in the open parking spot, not hangar.




This is the parked aircraft.

These aircraft are all accounted for. It is the Saab which is doubtful.

There is much more going on outside media eyes.


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## Juice

Safriz said:


> A pattern has emerged in terrorist attacks on Pakistani forces...
> 
> October 2009 GHQ attack (Attack on Pakistan Army)
> May 2011 PNS Mehran attack (Attack on Pakistan Navy)
> August 2012 PAF Kamra Minhas attack (Attack on PAF)
> 
> Thats all three forces dealt with....
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Nabil...
> 
> RPG has an effective range of 200 meters and some aircraft hangers are within that range from the rear Boundary wall .. It is Plausible that terrorist RPG did hit the aircraft hanger...
> 
> Although all of us wish that SAAB AWACS are safe....


Even if they hit the hanger...aren't they hardened?


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## third eye

Icarus said:


> Without any detonators, the best they can do is introduce the fissile material to cause local contamination. In which case the terrorist themselves will be dead within 3 minutes of coming into contact with fissile material. The concept of the dirty bomb has been rebuked by many nuclear diplomatists. It's impossible.



We are looking at ppl who are not scared to die.

Next, should God forbid, fissile material get stolen the implications world wide would be tremendous. It does not matter if or not it can be used. If the intention is to discredit - the purpose is served.

I was commenting at the perfunctory manner the poster had commented on the ' worst case ' scenario .

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## Juice

Safriz said:


> Pakistan is doing what they can...and have no foreign support..
> On the other hand TTP have all the foreign support they want and that includes training and ammunition from Afghanistan based ISAF/NATO/USA forces and that for us is a fact.
> 
> While USA pressurises Pakistan to act against only one type of terrorists that is the ones from Pak-Afghan borders..and totally opposes any action against another terrorists the Baloch terrorists....
> Pakistan cannot comply with such two faced demands from USA...
> On one hand they say a terrorist is a terrorist,no matter what nationality,religion cast or creed..
> On other hand they are openly supporing one terrorist group BLA,and most probably supporting TTP also but that cannot be proved..
> But USA's support for terrorist BLA is open and in the news...
> 
> Still you think Pakistan should listen to USA?


 Nope...don't listen...let them run amok.


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## indushek

TaimiKhan said:


> A generalization based on the experience i have so far gained in my 3-4 years of interaction with Indians on the cyber space. Indian members have indirectly shown their pleasure on this very forum and on Indian forums you will see dedicated threads celebrating martyrdom of Pak soldiers, be it Salala incident, US/NATO attacks, recent glacier incident etc etc etc.
> 
> No need to worry about us, kindly worry about yourself, we can take care of ourselves on our own.



There are many Indian members who would voice the same feelings about the 'love' they received from Pakistani members and hence the 'affection' shown by them. Being moderator u should know that there is no certainty for who started it. 

Regarding other forums, this is the first forum i joined in my online life and have never been to other forums so can't comment on that. The reason some of us stay here is because of the moderator behaviour, why should i care about other forums when i feel this is the one i like? i have seen the standards set here and don't want them to go down with comments such as yours i am replying to and that too from a moderator.

Regarding the worrying we worry about ours too when incidents happen, and i am worrying about this attack as a neighbor not out of some imaginary love. I am worried by the brazenness of this attack by a few rag tag bunch and pray that the PA is successful in eliminating these scum, as in future they could very well threaten the whole region. Hope i put forward my point aptly.


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## Irfan Baloch

krash said:


> If you look close you'll see that they also tried to shoot his manhood off......but there wasn't any.



you are all wrong

he was hit with a flowerpot and that was that. 
joke aside

thats hefty amount of C4 on his chest. that would have caused a a building to collapse.

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## Devil Soul

PAF media wing: Prompt official updates avert media chaos
By Our Correspondent
Published: August 17, 2012
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PAF media wing: Prompt official updates avert media chaos
By Our Correspondent
Published: August 17, 2012

Air Force&#8217;s media dept released statements from 4am till 8pm. PHOTO: AFP
ISLAMABAD: 
The Air Force media wing&#8217;s prompt response after militants attacked Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base Minhas in Kamra helped avert the usual chaos media outlets go through during such incidents.
The office of media affairs of the PAF confirmed immediately that the base had come under attack.
&#8220;A group of terrorists have attacked a portion of PAF base Minhas. PAF security personnel have cordoned off the area and have encircled the terrorists. Intense fire is being exchanged between security personnel and the terrorists. Further details will be communicated soon,&#8221; the first press release stated.
The statement was received at media outlets at 4:15am, and was followed by a number of updates on the operation till 8pm.
In similar situations, the media, especially electronic, starts running rumours as news since no authentic information is available.
Some channels initially claimed that the 111-brigade had been moved to deal with the situation, while some international media outlets even reported that there was a possibility of the presence of nuclear weapons in the vicinity.
However, immediately after the media wing started releasing updates on the operation, the disorder subsided, if not completely averted.
PAF spokesperson Group Captain Tariq Mehmood told The Express Tribune that Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt, himself, supervised the operation from the Air Headquarters.
&#8220;The air chief was in the operation room at the headquarters and was directly guiding each and every thing. We had an operation room at the base and they (air chief and his deputy) were directly coordinating with them,&#8221; he said.
He added he himself was in touch with his superiors who kept him updated on the incident, to keep the general public in the loop.
When asked, the spokesperson dismissed reports of the presence of nuclear weapons at the airbase as &#8216;absurd&#8217;.
Published in The Express Tribune, August 17th, 2012.


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## Irfan Baloch

indushek said:


> There are many Indian members who would voice the same feelings about the 'love' they received from Pakistani members and hence the 'affection' shown by them. Being moderator u should know that there is no certainty for who started it.
> 
> Regarding other forums, this is the first forum i joined in my online life and have never been to other forums so can't comment on that. The reason some of us stay here is because of the moderator behaviour, why should i care about other forums when i feel this is the one i like? i have seen the standards set here and don't want them to go down with comments such as yours i am replying to and that too from a moderator.
> 
> Regarding the worrying we worry about ours too when incidents happen, and i am worrying about this attack as a neighbor not out of some imaginary love. I am worried by the brazenness of this attack by a few rag tag bunch and pray that the PA is successful in eliminating these scum, as in future they could very well threaten the whole region. Hope i put forward my point aptly.



your comments are appreciated and you are the kind of the crowd we in this forum like to have. thats pretty much is explained in my signature.
what TK is saying is not without reason and I have the same personal experience. for every good member like you there are countless number of suicide trolls who have blatantly celebrated on this forum and rest of the web after the terrorist atrocities or US attack on Salala. so he has every right to convey that fact and we should take it away from him just because he is a moderator

he is not being disrespectful, he is just stating the experience as is. you know truth hurts but the honesty and respect demands that we are open and share the unpleasant realities as well but all within reason and mutual respect with the intent to share ideas.

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## Donatello

So any confirmation about aircraft damage?


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## Thor

Looking at this from the back foot now..............

Mehran airbase attack on 22/05/2011 - two out of the Pakistan Navy's four, P-3C Orion aircraft are destroyed. The Orions were upgraded P-3C MPA and P-3B AEW models equipped with Hawkeye 2000 AEW system and formed the core of Pakistan's early warning system. Mainly used for Maritime and anti submarine surveillance. This is despite the fact that dozens of aircraft are in the base, yet these two get targeted. Used for something totally unrelated to TTP. Yet they have done enough of their research to know how and when to penetrate an Airbase, allegedly.

Kamra Airbase attack and the Saab-2000 gets damaged used for general air defence and some ground target assistance. According to Dawn News. This base also manufactures JF17's and houses F-16s. Yet the furthest away plane to the entrance gets targeted.

IS IT JUST ME OR IS SOME BROADER AGENDA AT WORK HERE FROM SOMEWHERE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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## indushek

Irfan Baloch said:


> your comments are appreciated and you are the kind of the crowd we in this forum like to have. thats pretty much is explained in my signature.
> what TK is saying is not without reason and I have the same personal experience. for every good member like you there are countless number of suicide trolls who have blatantly celebrated on this forum and rest of the web after the terrorist atrocities or US attack on Salala. so he has every right to convey that fact and we should take it away from him just because he is a moderator
> 
> he is not being disrespectful, he is just stating the experience as is. you know truth hurts but the honesty and respect demands that we are open and share the unpleasant realities as well but all within reason and mutual respect with the intent to share ideas.



Sir i am sorry if i seemed angry but since i joined PDF i have loved this forum, mostly the knowledge distributed around and that is what i crave. I am a novice with no military knowledge and i am a military fanboy (not just Indian but all such matters). So i listen and try to pickup as much as i can. However the hate being seen here from both sides is too much. Threads on military matters are less and more on trolling. 

I am sorry for all the hurt my countrymen have caused and i feel saddened for any life lost, particularly military guys as they die for their country. It is the greatest thing and should be respected. Thank for your nice words.

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## Irfan Baloch

Thor said:


> Looking at this from the back foot now..............
> 
> Mehran airbase attack on 22/05/2011 - two out of the Pakistan Navy's four, P-3C Orion aircraft are destroyed. The Orions were upgraded P-3C MPA and P-3B AEW models equipped with Hawkeye 2000 AEW system and formed the core of Pakistan's early warning system. Mainly used for Maritime and anti submarine surveillance. This is despite the fact that dozens of aircraft are in the base, yet these two get targeted. Used for something totally unrelated to TTP. Yet they have done enough of their research to know how and when to penetrate an Airbase, allegedly.
> 
> Kamra Airbase attack and the Saab-2000 gets damaged used for general air defence and some ground target assistance. According to Dawn News. This base also manufactures JF17's and houses F-16s. Yet the furthest away plane to the entrance gets targeted.
> 
> IS IT JUST ME OR IS SOME BROADER AGENDA AT WORK HERE FROM SOMEWHERE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



your guess is good as mine

we can only suspect and draw out theories based on assumptions on who is the beneficiary. if there is undeniable and concrete evidence of a hidden entity or hostile state then only we should present it as a proof.

assumptions and accusations shouldnt be presented as proof, just like the Western media does, they quote the half arsed blogs and private emails as proof against Pakistan and then we are told that since so many people are saying this so it has to be right,

I see the Indians on the defensive side now just because this same formula is being adopted by many fellow Pakistani members. recall all those blogs, interviews and articles by the main stream Western media and the popular websites and countless armchair experts quoting each other as source and using their speculations as a proof against Pakistani state for all the things related to WoT etc.

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## Last Hope

Donatello said:


> So any confirmation about aircraft damage?



There is one confirmed Saab-2000 which has splinters sprayed over the body but the level of damage is minimal.
Mani says, two other Saab-2000 faced damage with one total loss; is hard to believe. If I am not wrong, PAF Base Minhas doesn't have 3 Saab-2000s. 

(Let's hope for minimal damage). The only smoke that was seen rising from outside was the burning of fuel depot. And any damage to aircrafts would have been openly accepted by PAF (they say one aircraft got slight damage). The P-3Cs destroyed made the headlines as soon as RPGs hit them.

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## KRAIT

Irfan Baloch said:


> your guess is good as mine
> 
> we can only suspect and draw out theories based on assumptions on who is the beneficiary. if there is undeniable and concrete evidence of a hidden entity or hostile state then only we should present it as a proof.
> 
> assumptions and accusations shouldnt be presented as proof, just like the Western media does, they quote the half arsed blogs and private emails as proof against Pakistan and then we are told that since so many people are saying this so it has to be wrong,
> 
> I see the Indians on the defensive side now just because this same formula is being adopted by many fellow Pakistani members. recall all those blogs, interviews and articles by the main stream Western media and the popular websites and countless armchair experts quoting each other as source and using their speculations as a proof against Pakistani state for all the things related to WoT etc.


Well Sir, I personally feel these attacks were most beneficial for India. Especially the Mehran was. 

The accusations should be properly backed by proofs but the thing is western media is too busy in using this attack on security of your nukes. It will be up to your media if they plan to pursue it rigorously to paint India's hand behind these attacks.

Its all about the way things are presented now on. Indian media is going on full flow on your nukes, that is for sure. May be its time for Pakistani think tanks to bring some strategy to bring India on hot seat and on cross hair of western media, which I think won't be easy.

Kamran attack didn't turn out so good for India. But if India is behind this, then there will be possibilities of such attacks in future too. 

I think it is Cold War between us that is getting intensified especially after Indian footprints in Afghanistan and its presence in the region. India got too many factions to use against Pakistan especially after you joined WoT and targeted those militant groups.

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## Peregrine

third eye said:


> We are looking at ppl who are not scared to die.
> 
> Next, should God forbid, fissile material get stolen the implications world wide would be tremendous. It does not matter if or not it can be used. If the intention is to discredit - the purpose is served.
> 
> I was commenting at the perfunctory manner the poster had commented on the ' worst case ' scenario .


Nuclear assets are not kept in open bases or army head quarters. This 'worst case scenario' is as logical as cockroaches having world domination plans.

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## Irfan Baloch

Donatello said:


> So any confirmation about aircraft damage?



the best we are going to get is what the ISPR / PAF press release is going to say.
anything further will only come as a speculation, rumor or hearsay and we wont have any way to confirm it.


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## karan.1970

Irfan Baloch said:


> your guess is good as mine
> 
> we can only suspect and draw out theories based on assumptions on who is the beneficiary. if there is undeniable and concrete evidence of a hidden entity or hostile state then only we should present it as a proof.
> 
> assumptions and accusations shouldnt be presented as proof, just like the Western media does, they quote the half arsed blogs and private emails as proof against Pakistan and then we are told that since so many people are saying this so it has to be right,
> 
> I see the Indians on the defensive side now just because this same formula is being adopted by many fellow Pakistani members. recall all those blogs, interviews and articles by the main stream Western media and the popular websites and countless armchair experts quoting each other as source and using their speculations as a proof against Pakistani state for all the things related to WoT etc.



There is one key difference there though.. In most such cases where Paksitan gets blamed, the participation / hand of a Pakistani citizen is mostly proven and the debate is around whether Pakistani govt / army is complicit in the crime. 

In this case, there is no iota on Indian involvement and the Pakistanis are just going to town on the beneficiary clause as if this is a murder mystery and the beneficiary of the multi million dollar Insurance policy of the deceased is the usual suspect..

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## Jango

So heres the story.

There was a broken wall on the village side of AFB Minhas. The DSG there, Shaheed Asif, was standing on the post.Total of 9 terrorists were present, and 7 tried to infiltrate, while 2 others were behind the wall on the hilltop, providing cover fire. Shaheed Asif spotted them, and fired at the intruding terrorists. 3 terrorists were killed instantly by Sepoy Asif. He also alerted the HQ. The other 2 terrorists who were behind, seeing this, also came inside. And fired on Sepoy Asif killing him. Salute to sepoy Asif for he averted a big big danger. There was a artillery regiment on base duty, and the 2IC by luck was present there at Sehri. He quickly assembled his men at proceeded. Another sentry present did not fire upon them, and hid. The terrorists proceeded to the Saab aircraft, destroyed one, damaged the other. They were meanwhile caught by the SSW and the QRF of the regiment before mentioned and killed. Zarrar company came in afterwards.

The original plan as being said was that they split into two teams, one goes to the AWACS, other to the JF-17 line/Mirage factory. Sepoy Asif Shaheed killed 3 and totally ruined there plan, and hence rather than splitting into two teams, they all proceeded as one.

So, the op was a success for the terrorists, and damage has been suffered. That is the preliminary and initial report.

Salute to Sepoy Asif. The reaction this time was fast, and better than before.

All this is not ISPR or anything, just what is going on within ad the initial report.

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## Ticker

Juice said:


> Even if they hit the hanger...aren't they hardened?



In indirect role an rpg-7 has a range of 900 Ms.


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## Paan Singh

*Pakistan Army faces militancy problem*

Islamabad: The Pakistan Army appears to have a militancy problem that is *"hidden from the public because investigations and court martials are often carried out in secret", a leading Pakistani paper said Friday, a day after the audacious attack on the key Kamra airbase.*

Heavily armed gunmen had stormed the Kamra airbase in Punjab province Thursday morning. An intense gunfight broke out between the militants and security personnel in Attock, a district that is considered to be one of the areas where Pakistan stores its nuclear arsenal. Nine militants and one soldier were killed.

An editorial in the Dawn Friday said the attack had raised disturbing questions.

"That only one security personnel was killed as opposed to nine dead militants is only a small consolation: the first and foremost question is, how were militants able to yet again infiltrate a high-security armed services' base and engage security forces inside for many hours?" it asked.

The editorial warned that the *possibility of insider help to the militants in the assault on Kamra was also very high.
*
"*From sympathisers of radical Islamist thought to direct supporters of militant groups, the army appears to have a militancy problem, the severity of which is hidden from the public because investigations and court martials are often carried out in secret," it said.
*
It added that with *some kind of military operation in North Waziristan against at least the Pakistan-centric militants is in the offing, the possibility of pre-emptive strikes by the militants is high.
*
"Had the warning of a blowback only been made at the policy level without it filtering down to the security forces likely to be in the cross-hairs of the militants?"

"...the security apparatus should be able to repulse attacks on at least critical sites with more efficiency, particularly with both the circumstantial and direct forewarning appearing to have been available," it added.

On the army's screening procedures, the daily asked: "How robust and effective is the surveillance and vetting of the armed forces' personnel to prevent an incident before it happens? Clearly, as recent history suggests, not robust or effective enough - but what will it take for a more serious and sustained effort?"

The editorial ended its slew of questions, by asking: "When will the state, both the army and the political government, drive home the message to the Pakistani public that the war is real, it is against a radicalised fringe of Pakistan and that unless the war is fought with total commitment and purpose, the state and society itself will spiral towards irreversible disaster?"

It stressed that the ones shouting 'this isn't our war' - "many on the political right - need to be countered, firmly and unequivocally. Delay that battle any longer and the already manifold complications will grow yet more complicated". 

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/pakistan-army-faces-militancy-problem_794135.html


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## indushek

KRAIT said:


> Well Sir, I personally feel these attacks were most beneficial for India. Especially the Mehran was.
> 
> The accusations should be properly backed by proofs but the thing is western media is too busy in using this attack on security of your nukes. It will be up to your media if they plan to pursue it rigorously to paint India's hand behind these attacks.
> 
> Its all about the way things are presented now on. Indian media is going on full flow on your nukes, that is for sure. May be its time for Pakistani think tanks to bring some strategy to bring India on hot seat and on cross hair of western media, which I think won't be easy.
> 
> Kamran attack didn't turn out so good for India. But if India is behind this, then there will be possibilities of such attacks in future too.
> 
> I think it is Cold War between us that is getting intensified especially after Indian footprints in Afghanistan and its presence in the region. India got too many factions to use against Pakistan especially after you joined WoT and targeted those militant groups.



While our involvement can't be ruled out i was proposing another possiblity to Blain sir, which could also be a possiblity. I mean what if the TTP has enlisted or acquired the help of retired mercenaries for effective strategy against the PA. I mean those who have worked in professional armies can give better tactics and methods to TTP, the determination is there for sure.However for the moment the AWACS are not at all significant for TTP and these targets make no sense except for India. 

From where the next logic follows that by pitting one against other and in the ensuing chaos may be TTP wants to achieve supremacy over weakened Pakistan? The talks of American withdrawal could be another reason for their desperate actions. If the USA withdraws then PA will be solely concentrating on TTP and this is a danger for them.What better than renewed hostilities between India and Pakistan??

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## S_O_C_O_M

> Hours later, Taliban gunmen in northern Pakistan forced 20 Shiite Muslims off buses, lined them up and killed them, the latest in a series of sectarian attacks that the government has seemingly done little to stop.



Taliban storm Pakistan air base linked to nuclear program, killing 2 in brazen assault - The Washington Post

This is terrible. These talibs disgustingly operate with impunity. RIP to the dead.


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## mylovepakistan

nuclearpak said:


> So heres the story.
> 
> There was a broken wall on the village side of AFB Minhas. The DSG there, Shaheed Asif, was standing on the post.Total of 9 terrorists were present, and 7 tried to infiltrate, while 2 others were behind the wall on the hilltop, providing cover fire. Shaheed Asif spotted them, and fired at them. 3 terrorists were killed instantly by Sepoy Asif. He also alerted the HQ. The other 2 terrorists who wer e behind, seeing this, also came inside. And fired on Sepoy Asif killing him. Salute to sepoy Asif for he averted a big big danger. There was a artillery regiment on base duty, and the 2IC by luck was present there at Sehri. He quickly assembled his men at proceeded. Another sentry present did not fire upon them, and hid. The terrorists proceeded to the Saab aircraft, destroyed one, damaged the other. They were meanwhile caught by the SSW and the QRF of the regiment before mentioned and killed. Zarrar company came in afterwards.
> 
> The original plan as being said was that they split into two teams, one goes to the AWACS, other to the JF-17 line/Mirage factory. Sepoy Asif Shaheed killed 3 and totally ruined there plan, and hence rather than splitting into two teams, they all proceeded as one.
> 
> So, the op was a success for the terrorists, and damage has been suffered. That is the preliminary and initial report.
> 
> Salute to Sepoy Asif. The reaction this time was fast, and better than before.
> 
> All this is not ISPR or anything, just what is going on within ad the initial report.



cumbersome words damn !


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## S.A.

nuclearpak said:


> Another sentry present did not fire upon them, and hid.



A defect, sympathizer or coward, should be investigated. Such element should be eliminated from the forces, instantly.


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## mylovepakistan




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## KRAIT

indushek said:


> While our involvement can't be ruled out i was proposing another possiblity to Blain sir, which could also be a possiblity. I mean what if the TTP has enlisted or acquired the help of retired mercenaries for effective strategy against the PA. I mean those who have worked in professional armies can give better tactics and methods to TTP, the determination is there for sure.However for the moment the AWACS are not at all significant for TTP and these targets make no sense except for India.
> 
> From where the next logic follows that by pitting one against other and in the ensuing chaos may be TTP wants to achieve supremacy over weakened Pakistan? The talks of American withdrawal could be another reason for their desperate actions. If the USA withdraws then PA will be solely concentrating on TTP and this is a danger for them.What better than renewed hostilities between India and Pakistan??


Well I did put this possibility in one of my previous post. Especially after Indo-Pakistan relationship is getting better, whether it is opening of trade. MFN status to India etc.....these attacks may certainly ruin the peace effort, whch Pakistan do want at its Eastern borders for few years so that it can take out danger present at Western front which is getting stronger and stronger everyday.

Also this peace is against many nations, who have billions of dollars at stakes based on our animosity. As I said earlier, if there is third, state party is involved, it is a brilliant strategy. At this time, creating doubts on each other's intention, given the past history of these two nations, is very easy. Its up to both the nations to get clear out the doubts Pakistan may have on India behind these attacks.

This is another angle, Pakistan should look into, coz its damn easy to reach to this conclusion that India is behind it as we are the one who will have maximum benefit, where as the truth can be totally different.

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## bdslph

Funeral prayer of Sepoy Asif Ramzan shaheed (Defence Services Guard, PAF Base Minhas)

Funeral prayer of Sepoy Asif Ramzan shaheed (Defence Services Guard, PAF Base Minhas) - YouTube

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## Ticker

KRAIT said:


> Well Sir, I personally feel these attacks were most beneficial for India. Especially the Mehran was.
> 
> The accusations should be properly backed by proofs but the thing is western media is too busy in using this attack on security of your nukes. It will be up to your media if they plan to pursue it rigorously to paint India's hand behind these attacks.
> 
> Its all about the way things are presented now on. Indian media is going on full flow on your nukes, that is for sure. May be its time for Pakistani think tanks to bring some strategy to bring India on hot seat and on cross hair of western media, which I think won't be easy.
> 
> Kamran attack didn't turn out so good for India. But if India is behind this, then there will be possibilities of such attacks in future too.
> 
> I think it is Cold War between us that is getting intensified especially after Indian footprints in Afghanistan and its presence in the region. India got too many factions to use against Pakistan especially after you joined WoT and targeted those militant groups.



The Indian complicity is known and proofs of this have been shown to India's American and other friends. However, if a certain threshold is crossed, which I don't know, may have been crossed, India has a huge soft underbelly which can be exploited, no matter how much the Indians feel that they are ready. 

Moral and diplomatic support can then be provided with such a vigor, the likes of which may not have been witnessed before. Though Joe Shearer says it is "Slippery, Very" - indeed India is treading on a slippery and indeed very slippery ground here.


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## Jango

S.A. said:


> A defect, sympathizer or coward, should be investigated. Such element should be eliminated from the forces, instantly.



Jazba-e-Hubbul watni maybe didn't click in.

ID of that sentry not yet known.


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## KRAIT

Sometimes one has to take necessary risks, but they just be calculated ones....


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## notsuperstitious

The reason TTP wants to hit Pakistan's most expensive assets is to hurt morale and get sensational publicity.

Why this most obvious explanation is being discarded? Did not Pakistan arrest insiders for the Mehran attack? What information has Pakistan extracted from them to implicate India here?

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## indushek

fateh71 said:


> The reason TTP wants to hit Pakistan's most expensive assets is to hurt morale and get sensational publicity.
> 
> Why this most obvious explanation is being discarded? Did not Pakistan arrest insiders for the Mehran attack? What information has Pakistan extracted from them to implicate India here?



Currently i don't think that any report has been provided officially. I highly doubt that India will be named in there as complicit. Most of the speculations here are just speculations.


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## third eye

Ticker said:


> The Indian complicity is known and proofs of this have been shown to India's American and other friends. However, if a certain threshold is crossed, which I don't know, may have been crossed, India has a huge soft underbelly which can be exploited, no matter how much the Indians feel that they are ready.
> 
> Moral and diplomatic support can then be provided with such a vigor, the likes of which may not have been witnessed before. Though Joe Shearer says it is "Slippery, Very" - indeed India is treading on a slippery and indeed very slippery ground here.



Considering the bind Pak now is in, do you seriously feel that the ' soft underbelly' is not being exploited to the max extent possible ?

The fact is that ISI too knows who the perpetrators - they are their ' assets' who have turned rogue.

This is not the time to point fingers but to introspect so that worse does not follow. While the PA may feel good on having contained the attack, seen from the attackers POV - he crossed three lines and ( as I read from some posts here) did manage to inflict damage to some aircraft.

I still feel after what Zia did , the next mistake was to strike a deal on Swat and go back on it.


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## Safriz

Last Hope said:


> There is one confirmed Saab-2000 which has splinters sprayed over the body but the level of damage is minimal.
> Mani says, two other Saab-2000 faced damage with one total loss; is hard to believe. If I am not wrong, PAF Base Minhas doesn't have 3 Saab-2000s.
> 
> (Let's hope for minimal damage). The only smoke that was seen rising from outside was the burning of fuel depot. And any damage to aircrafts would have been openly accepted by PAF (they say one aircraft got slight damage). The P-3Cs destroyed made the headlines as soon as RPGs hit them.



Although its highly improbable that 3 Awacs were based on one airbase?
Thats like keeping all eggs in one basket.


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## Jango

third eye said:


> he crossed three lines and ( as I read from some posts here) did manage to inflict damage to some aircraft.



Let's clear this three lines hoax. There was no three line thing or anything. They didn't go through a checkpost, they went through a broken wall, and were spotted immediately by the DSG.



Safriz said:


> Although its highly improbable that 3 Awacs were based on one airbase?
> Thats like keeping all eggs in one basket.



Same as 3 Il-78s being in one base at a time yesterday?


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## Roybot

How many SAABs in all does PAF have? 3?

Slightly off topic, but the Orions destroyed at Mehran were replaced by America right? Free of cost too if am not wrong?


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## Last Hope

Safriz said:


> Although its highly improbable that 3 Awacs were based on one airbase?
> Thats like keeping all eggs in one basket.



PAF Base Chaklala usually has 3 Saab-2000s, 3-4 C-130s and 2 IL-78s.


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## Jango

Roybot said:


> How many SAABs in all does PAF have? 3?
> 
> Slightly off topic, but the Orions destroyed at Mehran were replaced by America right? Free of cost too if am not wrong?



Four ordered, one was without radar.

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## Irfan Baloch

KRAIT said:


> Well Sir, I personally feel these attacks were most beneficial for India. Especially the Mehran was.
> 
> The accusations should be properly backed by proofs .



and we got none

*
below what I say is entirely my personal Point of view and assumption. so read it while you have a pot of salt handy to take a pinch whenever needed*



many of us like myself have two theories re Mehran base 

1-a mix of Indian commandos + TTP attack, planning, control and tactical command by Indians who led the attack and escaped while the disposable part of the group continued to keep the response force occupied and then blew itself before capture. 

2-a mix of Pakistani rouge soldiers + TTP who executed the attack, some escaped and rest blew themselves up.

but in both cases, a textbook attack, brilliantly executed, smartly planned and played out, the Mehran base danced to the tunes of the attackers. by the time the response team arrived it was too late and it was forced to play at the tunes and pace of the attackers. we are not even sure about the exact number of attackers, how many were they how many died and how many escaped. 
thats the beauty of the commando attack, keep the target guessing even after the time has past. it might be surprising for you but I actually (regrettingly) admired the attackers who totally outclassed the base security and its response unit. in case it was a blackops operation by Indians then it might remain classified forever due to its sensitivity. I refuse to hate or criticize Indians if they were involved. they used the chaos and disturbance in the country to their advantage and used the anti-Pakistan locals for this purpose for successful completion.

If the second possibility is true then its more frightening or disturbing. if it was entirely a home grown and executed attack, involving ex- soldiers sympathetic to Taliban & other sectarian terrorists. because they knew their military comrades and new the base etc. and thats not a ridiculous thinking, there are many instances where people with military background have been captured. This is why you hear cases of serving and retired people of all ranks and positions being apprehended that have sympathy to global Jihad or local TTP terrorism.

Now I am going to go through 4 major attacks and draw a parallel

I would class the attackers as team A and Team B

Team A
Attacked the Sri Lankan team, 
executed the mission, killed the security personal with stunning ease and proficiency and then walked off like seasoned Sicilian hired killers and didn&#8217;t stay at the scene. And it had no intention to die by blowing itself or get killed eventually by the time authorities recovered from the sock and sent in the cavalry. The attack was a textbook finish.
*Result: complete success, no two arguments about it*

Team B
Attack on the GHQ, 
Not as good as the team A but still good enough to launch this ambitious attack. They took hostages , they penetrated few security layers , some of them managed to kill enough officers and then engaged the response team and managed to kill few of them as well until they were taken out. Here the intention might not have been to escape but stay and fight. I must point out at the success of the SSG to capture so called master mind alive and take out a would be suicide bomber by dlowing his head off before he could detonate his bomb.
*Result: Successful, with some damage control by the GHQ defenders.
*

Team A
Mehran Base attack
Not necessarily the same team as the Lahore attackers, but the aces nonetheless . They had extra goons as well to keep the response team occupied while the main party destroyed the threats to Indian Navy. I only have grudging praise for the attackers and I cant find worse words to describe for the PN leadership and its security. I do give my respect to the firefighters and the response team members who died fighting a war that was already lost before it started. 

*Result: stunning success.
*

Team B
PAF Minhas base attack
More or less at par with GHQ attack team, intention to die while fighting and blow itself up but take out the primary threats to the IAF. the team was confronted right away and it failed to penetrate the deeper security layers. It couldn&#8217;t get close enough to the target and was forced to alter its plan according to the response of the defenders and its maximum members took the headshots from the Airforce and SSG response team, only 2 or 3 terrorists managed to blow themselves killing only themselves & bringing no harm to PAF assets or personal. Defenders did suffer 2 fatalities and few injured but attack was repulsed.
*Result: failed, primary target survived, the base defenders responded and foiled the attack.*


So in all future attacks we will see the tactics of two kinds of teams. One that knows that it is after, doesn&#8217;t want to die and go to heaven but its escape is as important and crucial as is its mission. And then there is a second team which is trained at par with the first team but is more interested in dying till the last bullet and blow itself with maximum damage to target

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## Safriz

Last Hope said:


> PAF Base Chaklala usually has 3 Saab-2000s, 3-4 C-130s and 2 IL-78s.



If true than thats a major goof by PAF....
3 awacs sitting in the middle of population


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## Tehmasib




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## Last Hope

Safriz said:


> If true than thats a major goof by PAF....
> 3 awacs sitting in the middle of population



Sorry my bad, 2 Saab-2000. One of them is permanently stationed at Chaklala and you usually see another unit.


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## Jango

Tehmasib said:


>



So thats one, now what about the other two.

Another thing to note is that the aircraft is not in a HAS.


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## Jango

It's a hangar.


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## Safriz

Tariq Jamal...The second soldier who Embraced Shahadat Protecting PAF BaseMinhas..He was in coma due to head injuries received in a grenade blast...
*

EDIT: PICTURE REMOVED AS IT WAS PROVED TO BE OF THE WRONG PERSON.*

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## Jango

Look like SSW from the uniform patch area in the right of his chest.

May Allah grant him a place in Jannah.

he was transferred to CMH Peshawar i think.

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## Haseebullah

Am i the only one who sees a third angle here.??

A final push or a cause to execute the NWA operation!


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## clmeta

No proof has ever been shown to anyone.
However, a lot of effort is being spread to blame India.



Ticker said:


> The Indian complicity is known and proofs of this have been shown to India's American and other friends. However, if a certain threshold is crossed, which I don't know, may have been crossed, India has a huge soft underbelly which can be exploited, no matter how much the Indians feel that they are ready.
> 
> Moral and diplomatic support can then be provided with such a vigor, the likes of which may not have been witnessed before. Though Joe Shearer says it is "Slippery, Very" - indeed India is treading on a slippery and indeed very slippery ground here.


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## Jango

Haseebullah said:


> Am i the only one who sees a third angle here.??
> 
> A final push or a cause to execute the NWA operation!



Yeah...you're pretty much the only one!

Why would we kill our own man, and destroy helis, and then also photograph 8 dead bodies if all we wanted was a spoof!


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## karan.1970

nuclearpak said:


> So heres the story.
> 
> There was a broken wall on the village side of AFB Minhas. The DSG there, Shaheed Asif, was standing on the post.Total of 9 terrorists were present, and 7 tried to infiltrate, while 2 others were behind the wall on the hilltop, providing cover fire. Shaheed Asif spotted them, and fired at them. 3 terrorists were killed instantly by Sepoy Asif. He also alerted the HQ. The other 2 terrorists who wer e behind, seeing this, also came inside. And fired on Sepoy Asif killing him. Salute to sepoy Asif for he averted a big big danger. There was a artillery regiment on base duty, and the 2IC by luck was present there at Sehri. He quickly assembled his men at proceeded. Another sentry present did not fire upon them, and hid. The terrorists proceeded to the Saab aircraft, destroyed one, damaged the other. They were meanwhile caught by the SSW and the QRF of the regiment before mentioned and killed. Zarrar company came in afterwards.
> 
> The original plan as being said was that they split into two teams, one goes to the AWACS, other to the JF-17 line/Mirage factory. Sepoy Asif Shaheed killed 3 and totally ruined there plan, and hence rather than splitting into two teams, they all proceeded as one.
> 
> So, the op was a success for the terrorists, and damage has been suffered. That is the preliminary and initial report.
> 
> Salute to Sepoy Asif. The reaction this time was fast, and better than before.
> 
> All this is not ISPR or anything, just what is going on within ad the initial report.



What's the source.. This is very different from PAF's statement..


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## Jango

karan.1970 said:


> What's the source.. This is very different from PAF's statement..



Source is...well I can't tell you, but it's pretty reliable and in the know of all the things.

And ofcourse it is different from the PAF statement.

The terrorists did get to the aircraft, and damaged one. Asif Shaheed did kill three at first point. They achieved one of their targets, not second one. The report that is doing circles is that one Saab was completely destroyed, and the PAF is hushing it up. This needs to be authenticated.

BTW, you should never go by the Army's or PAF's statements now-a-days. There is alot happening within the army, Kharian exercise, a certain analyst, and bla bla bla. Take it with a bucketful of salt.

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## karan.1970

Ticker said:


> The Indian complicity is known and proofs of this have been shown to India's American and other friends. However, if a certain threshold is crossed, which I don't know, may have been crossed, India has a huge soft underbelly which can be exploited, no matter how much the Indians feel that they are ready.
> 
> Moral and diplomatic support can then be provided with such a vigor, the likes of which may not have been witnessed before. Though Joe Shearer says it is "Slippery, Very" - indeed India is treading on a slippery and indeed very slippery ground here.



Jaa na yaar... Yeh Gedar Bhabki kissi aur ko dena.. Apna pichwada sambhalo jahan aag lagi hai.. Doosre ke ghar main baad mein jhankna..


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## notorious_eagle

AWACS are PAF's trump card to negate the superiority of SU30MKI PESA radar. It is the smoking gun that is needed to spot IAF's air superiority fighters. It should make you wonder why these terrorists targeted this asset instead of attacking Ghazi Air base which houses Cobra's or Sargodha base which houses the F16's which have been used extensively in the FATA region. My fellow Pakistani brothers and sisters, please pay attention to this angle very closely. It appears that an unnamed adversary is taking advantage of this WOT to reduce Pakistan's conventional military power. The level of sophistication and funding required for an brazen attack like this needs powerful backing.

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## iPhone

Pakistan needs to launch a special op against ttp leadership during the NWA operation. Objective to capture top leadership alive. Investigate reason behind targeting India centric Pakistani assets. If Indian complexity is discovered then either A- expose it in international media or B- launch similar black op operation in Indian and destroy their assets or C- do both A and B.


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## Haseebullah

nuclearpak said:


> Yeah...you're pretty much the only one!
> 
> Why would we kill our own man, and destroy helis, and then also photograph 8 dead bodies if all we wanted was a spoof!


 
Eh....you idiot!
Who wants us to execute the NWA badly!
Someone who has been asking us to do it for a long time.


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## aakalim

If its true that a Saab aircraft has been destroyed than this is a huge huge security blunder on the part of PAF. Its absolutely preposterous that TTP terrorists come like this and destroy our most strategically important military equipment. This is simply unacceptable. Its a shame that the TTP terrorists still sit in Pakistan, their spokesperson openly giving statements, and no action is taken against them. I mean this is really getting out of control.

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## karan.1970

fateh71 said:


> The reason TTP wants to hit Pakistan's most expensive assets is to hurt morale and get sensational publicity.
> 
> Why this most obvious explanation is being discarded? Did not Pakistan arrest insiders for the Mehran attack? What information has Pakistan extracted from them to implicate India here?



Arre.. the most obvious explanation implicates Pakistan and its own policies for all this mess.. Psychologically its not a very palatable explanation and hence is ignored by some of the immature Pakistani members..


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## Jango

Haseebullah said:


> Eh....you idiot!
> Who wants us to execute the NWA badly!
> Someone who has been asking us to do it for a long time.



Nah....NWA op is never going to be taken like this.

And kindly post respectfully A-hole.



notorious_eagle said:


> AWACS are PAF's trump card to negate the superiority of SU30MKI PESA radar. It is the smoking gun that is needed to spot IAF's air superiority fighters. It should make you wonder why these terrorists targeted this asset instead of attacking Ghazi Air base which houses Cobra's or Sargodha base which houses the F16's which have been used extensively in the FATA region. My fellow Pakistani brothers and sisters, please pay attention to this angle very closely. It appears that an unnamed adversary is taking advantage of this WOT to reduce Pakistan's conventional military power. The level of sophistication and funding required for an brazen attack like this needs powerful backing.



That's what everyone thinks. And this could be true. Why AWACS specifically?

Before at PNS Mehran, why P-3 orion? They passed through other A/C as well, but targeted only P-3 orion.


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## Ticker

karan.1970 said:


> Jaa na yaar... Yeh Gedar Bhabki kissi aur ko dena.. Apna pichwada sambhalo jahan aag lagi hai.. Doosre ke ghar main baad mein jhankna..



Yehi pichwara pehle tumhare pichware mein ghusa hua tha. Dobara rasta dikhane mein der nahin lagti. Geedar bhabkiyan hi samjho.


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## KRAIT

notorious_eagle said:


> AWACS are PAF's trump card to negate the superiority of SU30MKI PESA radar. It is the smoking gun that is needed to spot IAF's air superiority fighters. It should make you wonder why these terrorists targeted this asset instead of attacking Ghazi Air base which houses Cobra's or Sargodha base which houses the F16's which have been used extensively in the FATA region. My fellow Pakistani brothers and sisters, please pay attention to this angle very closely. It appears that an unnamed adversary is taking advantage of this WOT to reduce Pakistan's conventional military power. The level of sophistication and funding required for an brazen attack like this needs powerful backing.


That's what we are actually discussing but the point is why all of you are looking at this angle only which even Indians have discussed with you....what about other angles which are being ignored because this one gives you an easy answer while the others are quite complicated to understand but equally possible.


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## Imran Khan

every kid is making story for getting attention nothing more for me i am not gonna buy it . kids don't know if a saab was destroy flame will be hours by fuel and large plane and nothing we seen in kamra .

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## notsuperstitious

notorious_eagle said:


> AWACS are PAF's trump card to negate the superiority of SU30MKI PESA radar. It is the smoking gun that is needed to spot IAF's air superiority fighters. It should make you wonder why these terrorists targeted this asset instead of attacking Ghazi Air base which houses Cobra's or Sargodha base which houses the F16's which have been used extensively in the FATA region. My fellow Pakistani brothers and sisters, please pay attention to this angle very closely. It appears that an unnamed adversary is taking advantage of this WOT to reduce Pakistan's conventional military power. The level of sophistication and funding required for an brazen attack like this needs powerful backing.



Conjecture, speculation, not backed by any proof despite many high profile attacks over many years, subsequent investigations and arrests of insiders and deserters.

Lets see the obvious, for Taliban its more cost effective in terms of returns on invstments to attack high profile expensive assets that will cause morale damage and sensational headlines and publicity than to routinely kill 15-20 FC that nobody even cares about. And these attacks are made possible and planned where there is insider help available from sympathetic armed forces personnel.

This is what we know from the investigations so far.


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## Safriz

Imran Khan said:


> every kid is making story for getting attention nothing more for me i am not gonna buy it . kids don't know if a saab was destroy flame will be hours by fuel and large plane and nothing we seen in kamra .



Nabil was here yesterday..He said SAAB are safe...


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## OrionHunter

iPhone said:


> Pakistan needs to launch a special op against ttp leadership during the NWA operation. Objective to capture top leadership alive. Investigate reason behind targeting India centric Pakistani assets. If Indian complexity is discovered then either A- expose it in international media or *B- launch similar black op operation in Indian and destroy their assets* or C- do both A and B.


Launch a 'black op operation' (whatever that is!) in India and destroy their assets?  Dude! You're living in a fool's paradise. Get real by smelling some freshly brewed coffee!

*It is most likely a false flag op by the CIA to expose the vulnerability of Pak nukes at Kamra. They're building a case for American boots on the ground to take out Pakistan nuclear weapons that they claim are a threat to the world and neutralise their reactors producing enriched Uranium/Plutonium for their nukes. *


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## Mani2020

nuclearpak said:


> So heres the story.
> 
> There was a broken wall on the village side of AFB Minhas. The DSG there, Shaheed Asif, was standing on the post.Total of 9 terrorists were present, and 7 tried to infiltrate, while 2 others were behind the wall on the hilltop, providing cover fire. Shaheed Asif spotted them, and fired at the intruding terrorists. 3 terrorists were killed instantly by Sepoy Asif. He also alerted the HQ. The other 2 terrorists who were behind, seeing this, also came inside. And fired on Sepoy Asif killing him. Salute to sepoy Asif for he averted a big big danger. There was a artillery regiment on base duty, and the 2IC by luck was present there at Sehri. He quickly assembled his men at proceeded. Another sentry present did not fire upon them, and hid. The terrorists proceeded to the Saab aircraft, destroyed one, damaged the other. They were meanwhile caught by the SSW and the QRF of the regiment before mentioned and killed. Zarrar company came in afterwards.
> 
> The original plan as being said was that they split into two teams, one goes to the AWACS, other to the JF-17 line/Mirage factory. Sepoy Asif Shaheed killed 3 and totally ruined there plan, and hence rather than splitting into two teams, they all proceeded as one.
> 
> So, the op was a success for the terrorists, and damage has been suffered. That is the preliminary and initial report.
> 
> Salute to Sepoy Asif. The reaction this time was fast, and better than before.
> 
> All this is not ISPR or anything, just what is going on within ad the initial report.



I was talking all night long that one aircraft has been totally destroyed while the others sustained damage but no one was believing me 

Hell a millions dollar strategic asset goes to the ashes while the other gets damaged...

thumbs down to the security ,specially the police..

Praise all you want to but loosing a strategic asset while damaging others is a big big loss


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## karan.1970

Ticker said:


> Yehi pichwara pehle tumhare pichware mein ghusa hua tha. Dobara rasta dikhane mein der nahin lagti. Geedar bhabkiyan hi samjho.



Pichwara pichware mein Ghusa hua tha ?? 

Yeh koi naya style hai kya..


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## Imran Khan

Safriz said:


> Nabil was here yesterday..He said SAAB are safe...



i know its safe bu i am really surprised by few members here making story every 10 hours . every story is completely different from other

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## karan.1970

Mani2020 said:


> \
> Hell a million dollar strategic asset goes to the ashes while the other gets damaged...



An AWACS would be costing north of $ 100 million


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## cyphercide

nuclearpak said:


> That's what everyone thinks. And this could be true. Why AWACS specifically?
> 
> Before at PNS Mehran, why P-3 orion? They passed through other A/C as well, but targeted only P-3 orion.



It's doubtful if India retains any depth to carry out any attack inside Pakistan. Even if it did, taking out a couple of AWACS isn't going to effectively degrade Pakistan's ability to wage war. It would constitute as a colossal waste of manpower. Especially when far more strategic targets like civilian nuclear reactors are on the map. 

I gotta go with the obvious explanation, terrorists sending a stern warning to the establishment on the recently publicized military offensive in the works.


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## Safriz

Army Chief Kayani dispels reports of joint North Waziristan operation - geo.tv


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## iPhone

OrionHunter said:


> Launch a 'black op operation' (whatever that is!) in India and destroy their assets?  Dude! You're living in a fool's paradise. Get real by smelling some freshly brewed coffee!


If india cam mix with ttp and launch operations inside Pakistan to destroy India centric assets, and Pakistan gets proof of it through ttp, then why shouldn't Pakistan do the same?


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## karan.1970

Safriz said:


> Army Chief Kayani dispels reports of joint North Waziristan operation - geo.tv



Focus on the word *joint*.. He is not denying a possibility of a NW operation by PA. As a matter of fact it lays the ground for that


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## Safriz

karan.1970 said:


> Focus on the word *joint*.. He is not denying a possibility of a NW operation by PA. As a matter of fact it lays the ground for that



Hmmm..That is a valid point...


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## clmeta

The Pakistani establishment knows they have nothing against India.
Otherwise they would be shouting at the top of their voice.
This is the blowback of supporting ****** groups in the past.


iPhone said:


> If india cam mix with ttp and launch operations inside Pakistan to destroy India centric assets, and Pakistan gets proof of it through ttp, then why shouldn't Pakistan do the same?


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## notsuperstitious

I would be really surprised if any AWACS are destroyed. PAF knows they can not keep that a secret and they will only lose (more) credibility by trying to pull off any such stunt.

So I don't think they are hiding anything.


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## OrionHunter

fateh71 said:


> What information has Pakistan extracted from them to implicate India here?


It's the easiest thing to do - Implicate each other. Pakistan blames India for anything happening out there and India blames Pakistan even if someone farts aloud!

This Tom and Jerry blame game has been going on for eons to hide the incompetency of the powers that be on both sides of the Rubicon.

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## Mujraparty

one user from PAKGAMERS confirms that 1 saab have been completely destroyed and other 2 has minor damages ...


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## Last Hope

Safriz said:


> Captain Tariq Jamal...The second soldier who Embraced Shahadat Protecting PAF BaseMinhas..He was in coma due to head injuries received in a grenade blast...


 
Can you please mention your source?


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## Irfan Baloch

karan.1970 said:


> What's the source.. This is very different from PAF's statement..



repairing that wall should do the trick.

what a load of BS. and criminal excuse. 

no wonder world is panicking as these attacks get brazen everyday

while we are at it I must get a contract to fix the broken wall or missing barbed wire arround our Nuclear installations



eowyn said:


> one user from PAKGAMERS confirms that 1 saab have been completely destroyed and other 2 has minor damages ...



thanks for the update mate.


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## Jango

Mani2020 said:


> I was talking all night long that one aircraft has been totally destroyed while the others sustained damage but no one was believing me
> 
> Hell a millions dollar strategic asset goes to the ashes while the other gets damaged...
> 
> thumbs down to the security ,specially the police..
> 
> Praise all you want to but loosing a strategic asset while damaging others is a big big loss


 
praising Sepoy asif shaheed, who killed the intruding terrorists in the first encounter.

Alot of questions, why was the wall kept broken for months and not repaired? The QRF and DSG did all they could. And changed their plan. Still one aircraft is said to be totally destroyed.

Since I am not there, I cannot confirm it, but people who are there are saying this.

Note: broken wall mean it was not full height as the rest, and had barbed wire which were placed to fill out that gap. Now tell me, how hard is it to cut barbed wire?


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## lkozhi

krash said:


> If you look close you'll see that they also tried to shoot his manhood off......but there wasn't any.


These guys are so well dressed. It should be interesting to know the origin of the equipments. Where do they get all this?


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## Imran Khan

eowyn said:


> one user from PAKGAMERS confirms that 1 saab have been completely destroyed and other 2 has minor damages ...



tell him play games its better for him

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## Albatross

Mani2020 said:


> I was talking all night long that one aircraft has been totally destroyed while the others sustained damage but no one was believing me
> 
> Hell a millions dollar strategic asset goes to the ashes while the other gets damaged...
> 
> thumbs down to the security ,specially the police..
> 
> Praise all you want to but loosing a strategic asset while damaging others is a big big loss



whats the source of this info for you and nuclearpak as its quite opposite to the PAF official version and they cant hide such huge losses for long and if discovered later that would be a big embarrassment for PAF..


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## Imran Khan

well well well these kids don't know gov can ask abut it now a days in parlement when debate will come how the hell PAF will hide it ? and why should they ? in fact PAF told it already and they don't know nor they care what PDF guys talking here  ab nuclearpak or mani ke liye saab bahir nikal ker dikhany se to rahy

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## Jango

My source is the guy who works at the dang factory.

So stop doing this kid thing ok. You seem like kid more than anything with your dear dear.


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## Last Hope

Safriz said:


> Captain Tariq Jamal...The second soldier who Embraced Shahadat Protecting PAF BaseMinhas..He was in coma due to head injuries received in a grenade blast...



That is wrong reporting. Air Force doesn't have Captains and he is not from Zarrar company (SSG). 
The second soldier who died is *'Mohammed Iqbal'*.

Death toll from the attack on Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Minhas base reached two when another soldier succumbed to his injuries at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Hospital, Express News reported Friday.

The soldier, Muhammad Iqbal, fought against nine heavily-armed militants who had attempted to infiltrate the Minhas base, a vital installation located in Kamra, outside Attock on Thursday.

However, the audacious raid inflicted little physical damage compared to similar endeavours in the past few years.
The militants had moved through a nearby village, Pind Makhan, and had climbed a nine foot wall strung with barbed wire to break into the base, sources said.

However, they were immediately engaged by a security personnel, deployed at a watchtower along the boundary wall, who informed his colleagues.

The militants, most of whom were strapped with suicide bomb vests, were unable to cross the inner security cordon. They were engaged in an operation that lasted about 20 minutes, sources in the PAF said.

The attack left one air force security guard, sepoy Asif Ramzan dead, besides the nine militants, *and an aircraft slightly damaged.*


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## Jango

Albatross said:


> whats the source of this info for you and nuclearpak as its quite opposite to the PAF official version and they cant hide such huge losses for long and if discovered later that would be a big embarrassment for PAF..



If you get to know half the things that go on in this place, you would get shocked.

The Pasha thing, do you know where Pasha lives right now? No you dont.

Do you what happens with Kiyanis plane? No you dont.

So can we stop this BS. I may be wrong. I am not there personally, but relying on sources which are present there and they are most reliable thing. I may be wrong, but can we keep this civilized rather than doing this kid and name calling thing by the 47 year old grandpa who spells and writes like a 7 year old, and has a pic of a Zia Ul Haq ISI chief.


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> My source is the guy who works at the dang factory.
> 
> So stop doing this kid thing ok. You seem like kid more than anything with your dear dear.



and if i say you dang factory words are useless in front of official PAF talks then ? yes i am kid i like to be kid any problem ?

you call a guy and he inform you i call another he inform me another story then someone else call and he got another story please stop this scrap man . are you willing to destroy saab ? as since 2 days we are looking you guys trying your best to prove saab is gone some time 2 gone


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## iPhone

If the SAAB aircraft IS destroyed and PAF is denying it then it's obvious they're gonna need a replacement soon. Which means they're gonna have to out an order with Sweden, and which means people are going to put two and two together. Not a smart move unless in a day or two PAF admits it.


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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> and if i say you dang factory words are useless in front of official PAF talks then ? yes i am kid i like to be kid any problem ?
> 
> you call a guy and he inform you i call another he inform me another story then someone else call and he got another story please stop this scrap man . are you willing to destroy saab ? as since 2 days we are looking you guys trying your best to prove saab is gone some time 2 gone



Do you have any proof that the aircraft was not destroyed? No you dont.


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## Pfpilot

This war with the extremists is brutal and only exasperated by failure of the Pakistani establishment to see it as such and divert any and all resources to the Western front. The Indian threat is nonexistent. On the other hand terrorists are practically begging for a fight by attacking military establishments in the heart of Pakistan. Pakistanis are so shocked because many still seem convinced that we are merely and reluctantly supporting an American war that would otherwise magically end at the Pak-Afghan border. That is not only far from the truth, it tries to cover up the death and destruction that is taking place in Pakistan as the random acts of a crazy few; all the while the enemy is far better organized and understands who it is waging a war against.

At the same time it is of upmost importance for non-Pakistanis to realize the enormous task that is to fight a war on one's own soil and against one's own people. How is a soldier supposed to differentiate between a civilian and a terrorist when both look alike, speak alike, and act alike. It is not uncommon in Pakistan to have a gun and a guy merely walking by the base checkpoint could turn around, pull out a hidden gun and open fire and the guards would never see it coming. These people don't look like stereotypical extremists seen in Hollywood, they are simply 'us', roaming the streets as normal civilians till the time comes to make their move. The Americans can shoot two Iraqis out of suspicion and one or both could be innocent civilians, but the risk is justified and backlash nonexistent; the same is true for Israel with Palestinians and for that matter, for India with illegal border crossings. Pakistanis cannot use the same approach, every innocent person maimed or killed becomes another addition to the cause of extremist; providing them with another vivid example of death to sway future extremists with; to seek revenge for and to show how the real enemy is the Pakistani establishment. That is to say nothing of the loss for a Pakistani family who would loose an innocent son at the hands of the Pakistani army; try justifying to them that the deceased seemed dangerous or was caught in the crossfire and see how that comes across to the family.

The double edged sword that we are dealing with, leaves little room for error and it requires us to bite the bullet and go all out in this fight. Ripping the scab off the wound in one go maybe painful, but to pick at its peripheries and hope the problem will take care of itself requires time; a commodity which the Pakistani state doesn't possess.

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## Jango

I hope just like you that the Saab aircraft are safe, and we suffered no damage, but uptil now, thing seem contrary. 

I am ready to take back my claim of Saab destroyed if you can prove that it was not destroyed. After all, we all are relying on sources no?


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## Hyperion

Ok guys, here's another take on the situation: None of the Eriye have been damaged. All of them are fine. 

Source: Spoke to an old course-mate, didn't know that he had transferred to Army Aviation. He wasn't very forthcoming about anything else, maybe due to 15 years of time-gap between my telephone call 

BTW, it's very confusing as I am hearing something else from Pakistan and reading the complete opposite here on the board, and then don't forget about the media angle! It's very disorienting


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## karan.1970

Pfpilot said:


> This war with the extremists is brutal and only exasperated by failure of the Pakistani establishment to see it as such and divert any and all resources to the Western front. The Indian threat is nonexistent. On the other hand terrorists are practically begging for a fight by attacking military establishments in the heart of Pakistan. Pakistanis are so shocked because many still seem convinced that we are merely and reluctantly supporting an American war that would otherwise magically end at the Pak-Afghan border. That is not only far from the truth, it tries to cover up the death and destruction that is taking place in Pakistan as the random acts of a crazy few; all the while the enemy is far better organized and understands who it is waging a war against.
> 
> At the same time it is of upmost importance for non-Pakistanis to realize the enormous task that is to fight a war on one's own soil and against one's own people. How is a soldier supposed to differentiate between a civilian and a terrorist when both look alike, speak alike, and act alike. It is not uncommon in Pakistan to have a gun and a guy merely walking by the base checkpoint could turn around, pull out a hidden gun and open fire and the guards would never see it coming. These people don't look like stereotypical extremists seen in Hollywood, they are simply 'us', roaming the streets as normal civilians till the time comes to make their move. The Americans can shoot two Iraqis out of suspicion and one or both could be innocent civilians, but the risk is justified and backlash nonexistent; the same is true for Israel with Palestinians and for that matter, for India with illegal border crossing. Pakistanis cannot use the same approach, every innocent person maimed or killed becomes another addition to the cause of extremist; providing them with another vivid example of death to sway future extremists with; to seek revenge for and to show how the real enemy is the Pakistani establishment. That is to say nothing of the loss for a Pakistani family who would loose an innocent son at the hands of the Pakistani army; try justifying to them that the deceased seemed dangerous or was caught in the crossfire and see how that comes across to the family.
> 
> The double edged sword that we are dealing with, leaves little room for error and it requires us to bite the bullet and go all out in this fight. Ripping the scab off the wound in one go maybe painful, but to pick at its peripheries and hope the problem will take care of itself requires the time the Pakistani state doesn't have.



Pakistan and India should get into a bilateral agreement that leads to significant force reduction on the Indo Pak border.. Atleast on the IB if not LOC.. That should free up a lot of resources for Pakistan to deploy in the western theater. If this is done, this would be bigger than any other CBM that our foolish politicians keep dreaming up...

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## Windjammer

nuclearpak said:


> So heres the story.
> 
> There was a broken wall on the village side of AFB Minhas. The DSG there, Shaheed Asif, was standing on the post.Total of 9 terrorists were present, and 7 tried to infiltrate, while 2 others were behind the wall on the hilltop, providing cover fire. Shaheed Asif spotted them, and fired at the intruding terrorists. 3 terrorists were killed instantly by Sepoy Asif. He also alerted the HQ. The other 2 terrorists who were behind, seeing this, also came inside. And fired on Sepoy Asif killing him. Salute to sepoy Asif for he averted a big big danger. There was a artillery regiment on base duty, and the 2IC by luck was present there at Sehri. He quickly assembled his men at proceeded. Another sentry present did not fire upon them, and hid. The terrorists proceeded to the Saab aircraft, destroyed one, damaged the other. They were meanwhile caught by the SSW and the QRF of the regiment before mentioned and killed. Zarrar company came in afterwards.
> 
> The original plan as being said was that they split into two teams, one goes to the AWACS, other to the JF-17 line/Mirage factory. Sepoy Asif Shaheed killed 3 and totally ruined there plan, and hence rather than splitting into two teams, they all proceeded as one.
> 
> So, the op was a success for the terrorists, and damage has been suffered. That is the preliminary and initial report.
> 
> Salute to Sepoy Asif. The reaction this time was fast, and better than before.
> 
> All this is not ISPR or anything, just what is going on within ad the initial report.



Dude, please stop making speculations and cannon fodder to all the so called well wishers.....you are claiming that all the terrorists entered the base, i read to the effect that one remained outside for four hours, he was hiding in a ditch opposite the sentry post, his job was to take out those manning the post, he failed and got wounded by the return fire, some four hours later, realising he was surrounded, he blew himself up. As i said earlier, the scum bags came with guns and rockets and not with base ball bats to smash up the equipment. If any plane had been hit, the rising smoke and in darkness flames would have been visible from miles .

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## Jango

Hyperion said:


> Ok guys, here's another take on the situation: None of the Eriye have been damaged. All of them are fine.
> 
> Source: Spoke to an old course-mate, didn't know that he had transferred to Army Aviation. He wasn't very forthcoming about anything else, maybe due to 15 years of time-gap between my telephone call
> 
> BTW, it's very confusing as I am hearing something else from Pakistan and reading the complete opposite here on the board, and then don't forget about the media angle! It's very disorienting



Silence is most confusing!! PAF is awkwardly silent.

Chalo, me going now. If somebody gets to know concretely that no Saab was destroyed or heavily damaged, be sure to post it here.


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## Hulk

karan.1970 said:


> Pakistan and India should get into a bilateral agreement that leads to significant force reduction on the Indo Pak border.. Atleast on the IB if not LOC.. That should free up a lot of resources for Pakistan to deploy in the western theater. If this is done, this would be bigger than any other CBM that our foolish politicians keep dreaming up...



It is the Indians who are unwilling to reduce the force. We feel that it can increase infiltration.


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## Last Hope

Seriously NuclearPak you are losing your reputation and creditability.

Whatever the PAF and seniors over here say, you go against it. Probably your source has a poor sense of humour. And I am not supposed to tell you but you have been considered a promotion to men in blue, and this attitude would be a set back. If anything is disrupted and not confirmed, better keep it to yourself.

Friendly advice.


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## Jango

Windjammer said:


> Dude, please stop making speculations and cannon fodder to all the so called well wishers.....you are claiming that all the terrorists entered the base, i read to the effect that one remained outside for four hours, he was hiding in a ditch opposite the sentry post, his job was to take out those manning the post, he failed and got wounded by the return fire, some four hours later, *realising he was surrounded, he blew himself up*. As i said earlier, the scum bags came with guns and rockets and not with base ball bats to smash up the equipment. If any plane had been hit, the rising smoke and in darkness flames would have been visible from miles .



Yes, the bolded part is true. Neither did I deny it. 7 came in, three were killed. The two providing cover fire also came in briefly, one then went ahead with the other party (4 who were left), while the other stayed near the boundary wall,and as you say, killed himself. Maybe I didn't mention it therein the first post. Sorry.

Completely in line with PAF version that 8 were killed by PAF.

I may be wrong on the Saab part, but what i have seen and heard points otherwise. 

Maybe you can contact your source in PAF Minhas to put an end to this once and for all.



Windjammer said:


> Dude, please stop making speculations and cannon fodder to all the so called well wishers.....you are claiming that all the terrorists entered the base, i read to the effect that one remained outside for four hours, he was hiding in a ditch opposite the sentry post, his job was to take out those manning the post, he failed and got wounded by the return fire, some four hours later, *realising he was surrounded, he blew himself up*. As i said earlier, the scum bags came with guns and rockets and not with base ball bats to smash up the equipment. If any plane had been hit, the rising smoke and in darkness flames would have been visible from miles .



Yes, the bolded part is true. Neither did I deny it. 7 came in, three were killed. The two providing cover fire also came in briefly, one then went ahead with the other party (4 who were left), while the other stayed near the boundary wall,and as you say, killed himself. Maybe I didn't mention it therein the first post. Sorry.

Completely in line with PAF version that 8 were killed by PAF.

I may be wrong on the Saab part, but what i have seen and heard points otherwise. 

Maybe you can contact your source in PAF Minhas to put an end to this once and for all.


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## Albatross

nuclearpak said:


> Do you have any proof that the aircraft was not destroyed? No you dont.



Do you have any proof that they are destroyed as unfortunately I asked someone as well who though doesnt work there but is at a operational spot in air headquarters and he says a saab aircraft is damaged substantially but the damage is recoverable.But yes indeed some confusion is there and i feel airforce should come forward and clear the situation.


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> Do you have any proof that the aircraft was not destroyed? No you dont.



yes i have statment of official of pakistan air force say one aircraft is slightly damage and that air craft is IL-78 

According to Air Force officials the militants were aiming to destroy American fighter planes used to bomb Taliban bases in Pakistan&#8217;s restive tribal areas along the border with Afghanistan. They included a squadron of F-16 fighter-bombers and the AWACS reconnaissance aircraft used to coordinate their operations. 

The PAF aircraft damaged in attack was an Ilyushin Il-78MP Midas Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT), according to news report on following link:

Militants attack Pakistan nuclear air base - Telegraph

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## Irfan Baloch

nuclearpak said:


> My source is the guy who works at the dang factory.
> 
> So stop doing this kid thing ok. You seem like kid more than anything with your dear dear.



your guy is taking a huge risk for himself by disclosing this information to you when the official narrative is completely opposite.
all people in sensitive facilities civilians & military included, sign a confidentiality agreement and would be deemed in breach of secrecy act if they chose to disclose the ordinary or extra ordinary activities and events in the place of their work which are strictly "need to know".

I am in no position to prove or disprove your claim and his claim but I MUST remind you, that such talk can get him in trouble. ask him though, who else has he disclosed this information? is it just him or does he know more people who know the exact devastation after the attack?

also ask him, if he or his colleagues are planning to approach the media and tell their version? this guy has already shared it to this public forum via yourself so I guess he is ready to blow the whistle.

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## Bratva

Windjammer said:


> Dude, please stop making speculations and cannon fodder to all the so called well wishers.....you are claiming that all the terrorists entered the base, i read to the effect that one remained outside for four hours, he was hiding in a ditch opposite the sentry post, his job was to take out those manning the post, he failed and got wounded by the return fire, some four hours later, realising he was surrounded, he blew himself up.* As i said earlier, the scum bags came with guns and rockets and not with base ball bats to smash up the equipment. If any plane had been hit, the rising smoke and in darkness flames would have been visible from miles .*


*
*


Just to add another angle to Nuclear Park prespective, We all know officially that aircraft was in *HANGER* and yet it sustained damage. So flames and smoke contained in Hangar?


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## Jango

Last Hope said:


> Seriously NuclearPak you are losing your reputation and creditability.
> 
> Whatever the PAF and seniors over here say, you go against it. Probably your source has a poor sense of humour. And I am not supposed to tell you but you have been considered a promotion to men in blue, and this attitude would be a set back. If anything is disrupted and not confirmed, better keep it to yourself.
> 
> Friendly advice.



I have been respectful to every member here. i am entitled to my opinion on the basis of what I have seen and heard. And I am forced to believe it. Same as other people here have their own opinions. Nobody has anything concrete to say here, everybody relies on his sources.

As for the second part, I am sorry if this has hurt anybody or anything, but we can have a friendly and factual discussion rather than start name calling by a certain man. 

I am merely presenting my opinion as is, not fighting anybody that they comply with me!


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## Bratva

Imran Khan said:


> yes i have statment of official of pakistan air force say one aircraft is slightly damage and that air craft is IL-78
> 
> According to Air Force officials the militants were aiming to destroy American fighter planes used to bomb Taliban bases in Pakistan&#8217;s restive tribal areas along the border with Afghanistan. They included a squadron of F-16 fighter-bombers and the AWACS reconnaissance aircraft used to coordinate their operations.
> 
> The PAF aircraft damaged in attack was an Ilyushin Il-78MP Midas Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT), according to news report on following link:
> 
> Militants attack Pakistan nuclear air base - Telegraph



Imraan Sahab, same PAF is saying it was SAAB whose to believe now?????????



> &#8220;They were armed with automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades,&#8221; PAF spokesman Group Captain Tariq Mahmood said. He said at least one of the rockets hit a hangar that was holding some aircraft. The rocket pierced the hangar wall and shrapnel from the explosion damaged one of the aircraft inside. The spokesman did not mention the type of aircraft that was damaged in the attack, but another security official, seeking anonymity, said it was a SAAB-2000 Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft that was being used for the reconnaissance missions.


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> Silence is most confusing!! PAF is awkwardly silent.
> 
> Chalo, me going now. If somebody gets to know concretely that no Saab was destroyed or heavily damaged, be sure to post it here.



silence over what ? they give statement and over what they do more for us ? do you really thing its a matter for them what defense forums debate ? if Parliament or PAC ask them then may be the open details otherwise there is no such need of more statements .



mafiya said:


> Imraan Sahab, same PAF is saying it was SAAB whose to believe now?????????



The spokesman did not mention the type of aircraft that was damaged in the attack

finished

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## Jango

Irfan Baloch said:


> your guy is taking a huge risk for himself by disclosing this information to you when the official narrative is completely opposite.
> all people in sensitive facilities civilians & military included, sign a confidentiality agreement and would be deemed in breach of secrecy act if they chose to disclose the ordinary or extra ordinary activities and events in the place of their work which are strictly "need to know".
> 
> I am in no position to prove or disprove your claim and his claim but I MUST remind you, that such talk can get him in trouble. ask him though, who else has he disclosed this information? is it just him or does he know more people who know the exact devastation after the attack?
> 
> also ask him, if he or his colleagues are planning to approach the media and tell their version? this guy has already shared it to this public forum via yourself so I guess he is ready to blow the whistle.



This is not the guy only. This version is presented by retired personnel, and senior serving personnel and others. BTW, this version was also presented by some person on TV. So, I am not the only one saying this. Ithas been reported in one media as well.

Note: the RPG did not hit the plane as per the source, rather the area in front of the nose. So, if not destroyed, heavy damage is a possibility.


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## Hyperion

Irfan Baloch said:


> your guy is taking a huge risk for himself by disclosing this information to you when the official narrative is completely opposite.
> all people in sensitive facilities civilians & military included, sign a confidentiality agreement and would be deemed in breach of secrecy act if they chose to disclose the ordinary or extra ordinary activities and events in the place of their work which are strictly "need to know".
> 
> I am in no position to prove or disprove your claim and his claim but I MUST remind you, that such talk can get him in trouble. ask him though, who else has he disclosed this information? is it just him or does he know more people who know the exact devastation after the attack?
> 
> also ask him, if he or his colleagues are planning to approach the media and tell their version? this guy has already shared it to this public forum via yourself so I guess he is ready to blow the whistle.



Exactly that's what my course-mate was saying that he has been gagged not to disclose ANY information. The only thing he said was : "Yar, sab kuch theek hai! Khwa-ma-khwa pareshan matt ho. Keemti jahaz bhi theek hain. Pakistan kabb a rahay ho?"

And most of my course-mates from 9* GDP are way up there. If he was not talking it means AHQ is being really tough in implementing the confidentiality clause. I am not surprised, as AF is one of the most disciplined forces!


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## Jango

*RPG did not hit the aircraft head on, but landed near the aircraft, so while the aircraft might be recoverable, the initial assessment last night was that it is destroyed. Now heavy damage is being reported.*


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## Irfan Baloch

Imran Khan said:


> silence over what ? they give statement and over what they do more for us ? do you really thing its a matter for them what defense forums debate ? if Parliament or PAC ask them then may be the open details otherwise there is no such need of more statements .
> 
> 
> 
> The spokesman did not mention the type of aircraft that was damaged in the attack
> 
> finished



if the facts are different from the official PAF story then they will eventually come out.
I am going to report these "leaked" stories by the people claiming to be working inside the base

it doest matter if they are true or not, but if they are willing to break the secrecy code and have not been debriefed after the incident then this is something that needs to be addressed.
we have an ISI correspondent who is active in this forum.so hopefully he will flag this issue up in his regular report

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## Jango

And yeah, the PAF is very much tight lipped right now, unlike PA or PN.


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## iPhone

nuclearpak said:


> This is not the guy only. This version is presented by retired personnel, and senior serving personnel and others. BTW, this version was also presented by some person on TV. So, I am not the only one saying this. Ithas been reported in one media as well.
> 
> Note: the RPG did not hit the plane as per the source, rather the area in front of the nose. So, if not destroyed, heavy damage is a possibility.



I believe no one continues to lie through their teeth like that just to gain popularity online. But I do think you could have been missed information, no?


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## Ticker

karan.1970 said:


> Pakistan and India should get into a bilateral agreement that leads to significant force reduction on the Indo Pak border.. Atleast on the IB if not LOC.. That should free up a lot of resources for Pakistan to deploy in the western theater. If this is done, this would be bigger than any other CBM that our foolish politicians keep dreaming up...



This confidence building measure has been suggested by Pakistan many times before. India always had rejected any such measure.


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## Jango

Irfan Baloch said:


> if the facts are different from the official PAF story then they will eventually come out.
> I am going to report these "leaked" stories by the people claiming to be working inside the base
> 
> it doest matter if they are true or not, but if they are willing to break the secrecy code and have not been debriefed after the incident then this is something that needs to be addressed.
> we have an ISI correspondent who is active in this forum.so hopefully he will flag this issue up in his regular report



I think that you should now delete all this! Unnecessary bad taste being left here.

And TV has no secrecy code right? Specifically ARY? Or that Air Marshal who on TV said that RPG was fired from stand-off range through the hangar door, and you do know the RPG stand-off range.



iPhone said:


> I believe no one continues to lie through their teeth like that just to gain popularity online. But I do think you could have been missed information, no?



nah, it's not for popularity on the forum. It's just a forum, not a real life jazz club where I get a membership!!!

I could be wrong, I could have had wrong information, but I presented what I think and believe at this moment. You are free to dis-agree with this.

I also find it hard to believe that the incursion point was across the runway from the Hangar and HAS, with a distance of 800m-1.2km.


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## Hyperion

nuclearpak said:


> I think that you should now delete all this! Unnecessary bad taste being left here.
> 
> And TV has no secrecy code right? Specifically ARY?



I second that! As this may have very negative repercussions on your source. Don't forget, one bad 'mark' in the file of an officer, means the difference between retiring without any stars on the shoulder and three stars! (well, the fourth one is political )

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## Last Hope

I think the best is, everyone keep silent on their views and the reporting of their sources including media outlets who, we all are quite aware, are reporting biased and adding information from themselves on the basis of being probable.

Avoid rumours and confusion which are being carried away from this thread all over the world. Like I said earlier, lock this thread until PAF and ISPR give their final word. Important updated would be posted by Moderators. It is the best option.

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## Hyperion

Last Hope said:


> I think the best is, everyone keep silent on their views and the reporting of their sources including media outlets who, we all are quite aware, are reporting biased and adding information from themselves on the basis of being probable.
> 
> Avoid rumours and confusion which are being carried away from this thread all over the world. Like I said earlier, lock this thread until PAF and ISPR give their final word. Important updated would be posted by Moderators. It is the best option.


Agreed. Spring cleaning time. Lock and wipe!


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## KRAIT

You all are trying to confuse Masoom Indians who have their fingers crossed for possible loss of one AWACs. But we will not fall for your attempt. We know nothing was destroyed.....The terrorist were killed way earlier and then PAF burn some tyres for Media to show and misguide us....

Can't it be a possibility.

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## Jango

> They were armed with automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades, PAF spokesman Group Captain Tariq Mahmood said. He said at least one of the rockets hit a hangar that was holding some aircraft. The rocket pierced the hangar wall and shrapnel from the explosion damaged one of the aircraft inside. The spokesman did not mention the type of aircraft that was damaged in the attack, but another security official, seeking anonymity, said it was a SAAB-2000 Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft that was being used for the reconnaissance missions.



Thats what I said. Th only thing that the spokesman did not comment on was the extent of damage. Shrapnel can do some damage can't it? From body damage, to flight control surface damage, to serious damage, to destroying a aircraft.


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## Hyperion

KRAIT said:


> You all are trying to confuse Masoom Indians who have their fingers crossed for possible loss of one AWACs. But we will not fall for your attempt. We know nothing was destroyed.....The terrorist were killed way earlier and then PAF burn some tyres for Media to show and misguide us....
> Can't it be a possibility.



Don't worry mate. AESA leaves a huge echo print. To really confuse you guys: We'll give you 22 distinct echo signatures through out the length of India  LMAO

Then the guys @ Indian AD: Sir, what's up? The greens have 18 new Awacs! 
IAD General: The damn Chinese must have given them 'Eidy' (gift given on Eid) after our guys failed destroying the three! 
ISI: 
PAF: 
Pakistani politicians:

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## Archie

KRAIT said:


> You all are trying to confuse Masoom Indians who have their fingers crossed for possible loss of one AWACs. But we will not fall for your attempt. We know nothing was destroyed.....The terrorist were killed way earlier and then PAF burn some tyres for Media to show and misguide us....
> 
> Can't it be a possibility.



Sometimes it makes me wonder , could RAW/CIA be behind these incidents coz Both PC-3 Orions and Saab 2000 are India or USA specific weapons system and these terrorist had specific knowledge about where they were stationed
A dumb terrorist would have first and foremost targetted certain buildings and try to kill maximum people instead of just targeting Saab 2000


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## AstanoshKhan

...and here Hamid Mir clears the dust on mumbo jumbo reports from different Western and Indian news-outlets stating there were nuclear weapons at the base.

Indian Media is rubbing the story of NY-Times.






With such notorious journalists who reports to support a specific agenda, anything bad is possible.

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## SEAL

*If *Saab news is true then we are seriously fu**ed, Gosh! Bhosdi kiyani once again failed us we have no policy at all he says in 
Kakul this war is our, so what you waiting for? Go ahead and eliminate these bastards whole nation is behind you.
For those who don't know Sweden has already ban Pakistan for any kind of military equipment sales so good luck gentleman our skies are much safe now.

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## Bratva

i think people overlooking the fact. A RPG pierceing the wall of hangar. Is this the quality of PAF hangars that cant stand a RPG Hit?

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## swathi

fox said:


> If Saab news is true then we are seriously fu**ed, Gosh! Bhosdi kiyani once again failed us we have no policy at all he says in
> Kakul this war is our, so what you waiting for? Go ahead and eliminate these bastards whole nation is behind you.
> For those who don't know Sweden has already ban Pakistan for any kind of military equipment sales so good luck gentleman our skies are much safe now.



I dont think any aircraft has been destroyed, Might be damaged which could be repaired, I dont think sweden has banned pakistan from purchasing military equipment.


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## Last Hope

mafiya said:


> i think people overlooking the fact. A RPG pierceing the wall of hangar. Is this the quality of PAF hangars that cant stand a RPG Hit?



C-130, Saab-2000, IL-78 and other larger aircraft are not usually in Hangars. And quite right the hangars are old and poor, though new ones being built are of quality. (Call for decrease in defence budget as PAF is spending them on renovation of bases to luxuries and tin can hangars are good enough) *Sarcasm off*

With this defence budget, your expectations are higher than they should be.


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## Capt.Popeye

Pfpilot said:


> This war with the extremists is brutal and only exasperated by failure of the Pakistani establishment to see it as such and divert any and all resources to the Western front. The Indian threat is nonexistent. On the other hand terrorists are practically begging for a fight by attacking military establishments in the heart of Pakistan. Pakistanis are so shocked because many still seem convinced that we are merely and reluctantly supporting an American war that would otherwise magically end at the Pak-Afghan border. That is not only far from the truth, it tries to cover up the death and destruction that is taking place in Pakistan as the random acts of a crazy few; all the while the enemy is far better organized and understands who it is waging a war against.
> 
> At the same time it is of upmost importance for non-Pakistanis to realize the enormous task that is to fight a war on one's own soil and against one's own people. How is a soldier supposed to differentiate between a civilian and a terrorist when both look alike, speak alike, and act alike. It is not uncommon in Pakistan to have a gun and a guy merely walking by the base checkpoint could turn around, pull out a hidden gun and open fire and the guards would never see it coming. These people don't look like stereotypical extremists seen in Hollywood, they are simply 'us', roaming the streets as normal civilians till the time comes to make their move. The Americans can shoot two Iraqis out of suspicion and one or both could be innocent civilians, but the risk is justified and backlash nonexistent; the same is true for Israel with Palestinians and for that matter, for India with illegal border crossing. Pakistanis cannot use the same approach, every innocent person maimed or killed becomes another addition to the cause of extremist; providing them with another vivid example of death to sway future extremists with; to seek revenge for and to show how the real enemy is the Pakistani establishment. That is to say nothing of the loss for a Pakistani family who would loose an innocent son at the hands of the Pakistani army; try justifying to them that the deceased seemed dangerous or was caught in the crossfire and see how that comes across to the family.
> 
> The double edged sword that we are dealing with, leaves little room for error and it requires us to bite the bullet and go all out in this fight. Ripping the scab off the wound in one go maybe painful, but to pick at its peripheries and hope the problem will take care of itself requires the time the Pakistani state doesn't have.



@PFpilot.
Sir, you seem to have put a finger on the nub of the problem.

The problem or threat from internal elements or forces is as great as if not greater than elements or forces from without.
You have said that the (present) threat from India is nonexistent. 
Let me try to be provocative; play the Devil's Advocate (or should it be Devil's Prosecutor?!) and say that: 
India is a threat, was a threat and will remain a threat. But today India seems to be in a position to be a threat without doing much or even anything at all. To borrow a phrase from yester-years (which was used in a different context)- India is waging a _"sitzkrieg"._

WHY??
Because India does NOT need to do very much. Neither will India want to do much.
On the contrary, India has understood the dire need to grow as a society, as an economy; but with a very long way to go. I hope some of the discussants here are able to understand that before jumping to any conclusions. 
Which can only remind one of a panic-stricken soldier letting loose his weapon in all directions. While thinking that he is fighting a war. 

The attacks that have taken place in the past, i.e. GHQ, PNS Mehran, various Security Estt. as well as this one clearly indicate local involvement in facilitation and execution. And that factor does not seem to have been clearly understood or exposed in the investigations/inquiries that have been undertaken so far. That is really worrisome. 
Exposing internal threats is much more difficult than identifying and exposing external ones. The reason is (as you put it so precisely) is that "*they are simply *'us'"; they look like 'us', they talk like 'us', they behave like 'us' (on the surface) and we can even get lulled into thinking that they think like 'us'.

The process to eliminate these forces from Pakistan is not easy at this time, but tragically and more so dangerously; with the passage of time it will get even more difficult. That bears thinking about.

As an Indian, I do not see any satisfaction in seeing this happen again and again on an ever increasing scale. Its not about seeing some aircraft being destroyed (you may assume that I celebrated that), but to see a society facing a threat of being destroyed is something else. The portents of that are there, first these elements took on common people at the bottom of the heap (like the attack at Data Darbar), now they have upscaled their targets much higher; give that a thought.

And *Icarus* (my friend and colleague on this forum) this is for you. 
One man in uniform laid down his life doing his job, a great job. I mourn that, I also mourn that his life was taken away by people who might have very well have been from his own. To me that is the greatest tragedy. 
You will understand what I mean.

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## Jango

mafiya said:


> i think people overlooking the fact. A RPG pierceing the wall of hangar. Is this the quality of PAF hangars that cant stand a RPG Hit?



Don't know about airforce, but PAA hangars are pretty thin, and RPG can easily dismantle them.

And as last Hope said, IL-78 and C-130 are not in hangars usually.


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## Mani2020

Albatross said:


> whats the source of this info for you and nuclearpak as its quite opposite to the PAF official version and they cant hide such huge losses for long and if discovered later that would be a big embarrassment for PAF..



mate officials are not even willing to give the name/type of the aircraft that got damaged...whats the fuss about in releasing the name of the aircraft ?...when they have mentioned each and every thing regarding whole operation then what is the big deal in aircraft type...when navy can release the info about p-3c orions destruction why not PAF mentioned a name of an aircraft that just got minor damage? whats is so sensitive about it

Reuters mentioned the damaged aircraft to be il-78, geo mentioned it as saab-2000 erieye, then a PAF spokes person says no damage to any aircraft, then he says no the aircraft got minor damage but i cant mention the name , then a news comes out about the splinters just hitting the erieye then naveed qamar says total contradictory thing that erieye got damaged and hit by a grenade on nose cone ...now hitting a grenade on nose cone is hell different to few shrapnel hitting aircraft.... Now you see how contradicting every report is from the other one?

Had it been a single minor damage then why so much confusion among not the lay man but officials and why so many contradicting statements ....If still its not enough for you to be suspicious than i dont know what it takes to hit the wall

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## Windjammer

Right guys, at long last, managed to speak to my contact, apart from all the scum bags wasted, one aircraft was damaged.

A press release will be issued by the PAF in a day or two.

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## Imran Khan

Windjammer said:


> Right guys, at long last, managed to speak to my contact, apart from all the scum bags wasted, one aircraft was damaged.
> 
> A press release will be issued by the PAF in a day or two.



which aircraft ?how much it damage can be repaired or tai tai fish ?


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## Capt.Popeye

nuclearpak said:


> Don't know about airforce, but PAA hangars are pretty thin, and RPG can easily dismantle them.
> 
> And as last Hope said, IL-78 and C-130 are not in hangars usually.



Large aircraft usually get parked outside, while getting hangared for maintenance. I think few AFs can afford the luxury of hangaring all their aircraft, esp the larger ones. Compared to fighters etc. with their (relatively) large bubble canopies, large a/c are less susceptible to the ravages of weather.


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## Windjammer

Imran Khan said:


> which aircraft ?how much it damage can be repaired or tai tai fish ?



He was in a meeting, i spoke to him briefly, obviously other people present, he couldn't share all the details, however, repairable damage. !!


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## SEAL

Windjammer said:


> Right guys, at long last, managed to speak to my contact, apart from all the scum bags wasted, one aircraft was damaged.
> 
> A press release will be issued by the PAF in a day or two.



My source also said the same thing but we have to wait, maybe the silence and spread of confusing news reports is deliberate to intercept terror connections and coms.

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## Tshering22

I heard that one of the aircraft was badly damaged. Was it the Il-76 tanker?


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## Last Hope

It is better to lose IL-78 than Saab-2000.

Talking to me few weeks ago, Air Cdr Kaiser Tufail was criticizing the IL-78 saying that was a poor choice of luxury by PAF. Why do we need IL-78s which (currently) only refuel Mirage and in near future JF-17? They cannot refuel F-16s and the flying hour is no good either. 

I can carry on but the point is, losing an IL-78 is better than losing an Saab-2000. Same with damage, damaged IL-78 is better than damaged Saab-2000. The damage was however, according to the new Chairman of Think Tank team, minimal and could be repaired in hardly a day's time, after it is in PAC Kamra!


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## Windjammer

fox said:


> My source also said the same thing but we have to wait, maybe the silence and spread of confusing news reports is deliberate to intercept terror connections and coms.


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## SEAL

Windjammer said:


>


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## karan.1970

Ticker said:


> This confidence building measure has been suggested by Pakistan many times before. India always had rejected any such measure.



Link.. ???? (notice that I suggested reduction on IB not LOC)


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## Roybot

Was just playing around on Google Earth, this structure(am assuming hangar) seems to have come up in early 2010, around the time when Pakistan got its second SAAB Erieye? Could this be the SAAB hangar, cause if it is you can see why the terrorists would have decided to go for this target, its the closest to the boundary, close to village and around the area where the terrorists got into the base.

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## karan.1970

Actually, if I go back to the Mehran Airbase, I do recollect that USA replaced the 2 destroyed P3C Orions.. So may be all this confusion is to get another freebie from USA of the AWACS type


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## Not Sure

notorious_eagle said:


> AWACS are PAF's trump card to negate the superiority of SU30MKI PESA radar. *It is the smoking gun that is needed to spot IAF's air superiority fighters.* It should make you wonder why these terrorists targeted this asset instead of attacking Ghazi Air base which houses Cobra's or Sargodha base which houses the F16's which have been used extensively in the FATA region. My fellow Pakistani brothers and sisters, please pay attention to this angle very closely. It appears that an unnamed adversary is *taking advantage of this WOT to reduce Pakistan's conventional military power.* The level of sophistication and funding required for an brazen attack like this needs powerful backing.



That assessment is superficial.

It is neither the AWACS nor the IL 78 that act as a deterrent against India. Rather, it is the nuke that assures Pakistan's territorial integrity against India.

What if the TTP is playing with the PA to take its focus away from their strongholds in NWA to the border with India? 

If given a chance, what would the terrorists want to destroy that belongs to Pakistani armed forces? It won't be AKs or machine guns or cannons or tanks. Not even fighter jets that come in bunches. It will have to be something that is rare, and expensive. IL-78 and AWACS fit that category.

Looking at India, in case of a war, Indians wouldn't be worried as much about the AWACS or 78s. Their biggest worry will be the nukes of Pakistan.

Pakistan's conventional military power has never been a worry to India or to the US. It is the nukes that give them shudders.
*
The biggest proof that it is actually the TTP that carried out the attack, is the intelligence report given by the ISI - almost a week prior to the attack.*

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## Pfpilot

Capt.Popeye said:


> @PFpilot.
> Sir, you seem to have put a finger on the nub of the problem.
> 
> The problem or threat from internal elements or forces is as great as if not greater than elements or forces from without.
> You have said that the (present) threat from India is nonexistent.
> Let me try to be provocative; play the Devil's Advocate (or should it be Devil's Prosecutor?!) and say that:
> India is a threat, was a threat and will remain a threat. But today India seems to be in a position to be a threat without doing much or even anything at all. To borrow a phrase from yester-years (which was used in a different context)- India is waging a _"sitzkrieg"._
> 
> WHY??
> Because India does NOT need to do very much. Neither will India want to do much.
> On the contrary, India has understood the dire need to grow as a society, as an economy; but with a very long way to go. I hope some of the discussants here are able to understand that before jumping to any conclusions.
> Which can only remind one of a panic-stricken soldier letting loose his weapon in all directions. While thinking that he is fighting a war.
> 
> The attacks that have taken place in the past, i.e. GHQ, PNS Mehran, various Security Estt. as well as this one clearly indicate local involvement in facilitation and execution. And that factor does not seem to have been clearly understood or exposed in the investigations/inquiries that have been undertaken so far. That is really worrisome.
> Exposing internal threats is much more difficult than identifying and exposing external ones. The reason is (as you put it so precisely) is that "*they are simply *'us'"; they look like 'us', they talk like 'us', they behave like 'us' (on the surface) and we can even get lulled into thinking that they think like 'us'.
> 
> The process to eliminate these forces from Pakistan is not easy at this time, but tragically and more so dangerously; with the passage of time it will get even more difficult. That bears thinking about.
> 
> As an Indian, I do not see any satisfaction in seeing this happen again and again on an ever increasing scale. Its not about seeing some aircraft being destroyed (you may assume that I celebrated that), but to see a society facing a threat of being destroyed is something else. The portents of that are there, first these elements took on common people at the bottom of the heap (like the attack at Data Darbar), now they have upscaled their targets much higher; give that a thought.
> 
> And *Icarus* (my friend and colleague on this forum) this is for you.
> One man in uniform laid down his life doing his job, a great job. I mourn that, I also mourn that his life was taken away by people who might have very well have been from his own. To me that is the greatest tragedy.
> You will understand what I mean.


 
Thank you for that post, you did a far better job of elaborating my point than I did, myself. The long term ramifications of letting the extremist movement run its course are horrific indeed. The world may be terrified of an extremist Pakistan, but I can assure you the common Pakistani is even more terrified. Many of us Pakistanis have seen the impact of extremism on a smaller scale in our schools and families and society in general; it is amazing how topics of discussions at social gatherings have changed, how something as simple as a greeting has been Islamified, how something as severe as the blasphemy law is allowed to condemn innocents to death over intangible claims. These things, while not all encompassing in nature, are seeds to a changing Pakistan...a change many of us are deeply uncomfortable with. No one is asking for the elimination of Islam in a predominantly Muslim nation, but instead what is required is the curtailment of discrimination and violence in the name of the very religion it dirties.

Your description of the Indian position seems spot on and I have said time and again, it's the economical goals that are most important to India at this point, aside from presenting a great opportunity for peace through economic integration, it has given us the opportunity to shift gears to a more pressing matter, in dealing with the terrorist threat. After all, if the goal is some romanticized Indo-Pak war that will change the world as proclaimed by the greatest war mongers among us, then why not make sure you have something left to fight for.



karan.1970 said:


> Pakistan and India should get into a bilateral agreement that leads to significant force reduction on the Indo Pak border.. Atleast on the IB if not LOC.. That should free up a lot of resources for Pakistan to deploy in the western theater. If this is done, this would be bigger than any other CBM that our foolish politicians keep dreaming up...



Too bad our politicians refuse compromise of any type. This is one of the disadvantages of democracy, if there ever was one: It is the inability of politicians to see beyond their term in public office. They exist solely to gain more votes for their re-elections. Force reduction of any kind requires, someone, anyone, to make a concession and make the first move. No one does that because no one wants to appear weak. 

For that very same reason peace never seems to come about because politicians see only a zero sum game; they all want either a concession from the opposing nation or if that doesn't work, then peace for eternity...either way something that can be attributed to themselves and immortalize them. Instead, smaller measures such as the one pointed out by you are really the only way forward, for our sake at this time and for India's when the 'friendly' neighbor on it's East becomes a little nosy.

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## Safriz

mafiya said:


> i think people overlooking the fact. A RPG pierceing the wall of hangar. Is this the quality of PAF hangars that cant stand a RPG Hit?



An RPG fuse is activated at the point of Impact.
If the point of Impact was Aircraft Hanger wall,the the RPG must have exploded on impact or centimeters inside the breached Hanger..That is if the Hanger was not reinforced as many here suggest....
After that the explosion expands and effectiveness decreases exponentially with distance.

Can such an explosion actually destroy an aircraft?


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## Donatello

Windjammer said:


> Right guys, at long last, managed to speak to my contact, apart from all the scum bags wasted, one aircraft was damaged.
> 
> A press release will be issued by the PAF in a day or two.



Okay, please update us as soon as you can, so we can end this wrong information that is spreading like wild fire.


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## Safriz

Roybot said:


> Was just playing around on Google Earth, this structure(am assuming hangar) seems to have come up in early 2010, around the time when Pakistan got its second SAAB Erieye? Could this be the SAAB hangar, cause if it is you can see why the terrorists would have decided to go for this target, its the closest to the boundary, close to village and around the area where the terrorists got into the base.



This fuel dump was on fire when news channels showed smoke rising from the base..
The Hanger you show here does look like probable storage place of the SAAB awacs.....
The question is were these hangers reinforced?
If they were Reinforced then RPG fire couldn't have penetrated....


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## khanasifm

Deploy one BETSS_c system per location/ installation

http://www.google.com/gwt/x?gl=US&a...p;ei=FFYuUILpG8HG6gGX_oC4Dg&amp;ved=0CBwQFjAA


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## Capt.Popeye

Pfpilot said:


> Thank you for that post, you did a far better job of elaborating my point than I did, myself. The long term ramifications of letting the extremist movement run its course are horrific indeed. The world may be terrified of an extremist Pakistan, but I can assure you the common Pakistani is even more terrified. Many of us Pakistanis have seen the impact of extremism on a smaller scale in our schools and families and society in general; it is amazing how topics of discussions at social gatherings have changed, how something as simple as a greeting has been Islamified, how something as severe as the blasphemy law is allowed to condemn innocents to death over intangible claims. These things, while not all encompassing in nature, are seeds to a changing Pakistan...a change many of us are deeply uncomfortable with. No one is asking for the elimination of Islam in a predominantly Muslim nation, but instead what is required is the curtailment of discrimination and violence in the name of the very religion it dirties.
> 
> Your description of the Indian position seems spot on and I have said time and again, it's the economical goals that are most important to India at this point, aside from presenting a great opportunity for peace through economic integration, it has given us the opportunity to shift gears to a more pressing matter, in dealing with the terrorist threat. After all, if the goal is some romanticized Indo-Pak war that will change the world as proclaimed by the greatest war mongers among us, then why not make sure you have something left to fight for.
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad our politicians refuse compromise of any type. This is one of the disadvantages of democracy, if there ever was one: It is the inability of politicians to see beyond their term in public office. They exist solely to gain more votes for their re-elections. Force reduction of any kind requires, someone, anyone, to make a concession and make the first move. No one does that because no one wants to appear weak.
> 
> For that very same reason peace never seems to come about because politicians see only a zero sum game; they all want either a concession from the opposing nation or if that doesn't work, then peace for eternity...either way something that can be attributed to themselves and immortalize them. Instead, smaller measures such as the one pointed out by you are really the only way forward, for our sake at this time and for India's when the 'friendly' neighbor on it's East becomes a little nosy.



I understand the gist of your statement. But amazingly, at the present time whatever positive movements that are taking place are at the level of the Politicos (at least the ones holding the reins of power in both countries). While unbelievably, the common populace (which could be the biggest beneficiaries) are fighting shy of committing whole-hearted support to these moves; instead very hastily finding "Sellouts" at the drop of a hat. 

While the respective Security Establishments are tending towards some form of Neutrality.

Does that not seem to be a *Big Conundrum?*

(your response to Karan.1970 just triggered that thought)


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## khanasifm

bests-c http://www.google.com/gwt/x?gl=US&a...p;ei=FFYuUILpG8HG6gGX_oC4Dg&amp;ved=0CBwQFjAA


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## Irfan Baloch

karan.1970 said:


> Actually, if I go back to the Mehran Airbase, I do recollect that USA replaced the 2 destroyed P3C Orions.. So may be all this confusion is to get another freebie from USA of the AWACS type



lol

ge ge

wo dood peetay buchay hay na


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## Capt.Popeye

Safriz said:


> This fuel dump was on fire when news channels showed smoke rising from the base..
> The Hanger you show here does look like probable storage place of the SAAB awacs.....
> The question is were these hangers reinforced?
> If they were Reinforced then RPG fire couldn't have penetrated....



Just going by that picture: the Hangar(s) seems to be of Galvanised Sheet Metal (or similar material) construction which is adeaquate for Hangaring a/c for maintenance etc. Just Cover from Weather, not Cover from Fire. 
The proximity of the Fuel Tanks (in the context of the incident) is disconcerting.


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## Safriz

Why terrorists ONLY target Pakistan's air surveillance/early warning capability?
Previously PC-3 Orion,a surveillance and early warning aircraft.
Now SAAB erieye..again surveilance and early warning...

Why TTP would be afraid of Pakistan's awacs? They don't have air force....
India has...



khanasifm said:


> Deploy one BETSS_c system per location/ installation
> 
> Betss-C



what gibberish is this?


----------



## mylovepakistan

waiting for ISPR press release,


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## Roybot

Tehmasib said:


>


 


nuclearpak said:


> So thats one, now what about the other two.
> 
> Another thing to note is that the aircraft is not in a HAS.



That photo is actually from the induction ceremony, not recent.













Safriz said:


> This fuel dump was on fire when news channels showed smoke rising from the base..
> The Hanger you show here does look like probable storage place of the SAAB awacs.....
> The question is were these hangers reinforced?
> If they were Reinforced then RPG fire couldn't have penetrated....



Do you mean like a HAS? Doesn't look like it, I don't think its possible to make HAS for big planes anyways. RPG can destroy tanks, aircraft hangar is possible too.

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## Imran Khan

timetravel said:


> India dont need to worry about 2-3 Awacs of Pakistan.. India has massive conventional edge. 2-3 Awacs are not gonna make any difference to India in a conventional war with Pakistan.
> 
> Infact if Pakistan were to fight and promise not to use Nukes, India would be willing to give 5 Awacs to Pakistan to fight war with India itself.



but bete jee

at this time Pakistan has 4 saab-2000 and 2 ZDK-03 TOTAL 6 AWACS

and india has only 3 phalcons in hands 


to ab apny daddy se keh ker or 2 khareedy phir 5 poory ker ke humy dena

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## Pfpilot

Capt.Popeye said:


> I understand the gist of your statement. But amazingly, at the present time whatever positive movements that are taking place are at the level of the Politicos (at least the ones holding the reins of power in both countries). While unbelievably, the common populace (which could be the biggest beneficiaries) are fighting shy of committing whole-hearted support to these moves; instead very hastily finding "Sellouts" at the drop of a hat.
> 
> While the respective Security Establishments are tending towards some form of Neutrality.
> 
> Does that not seem to be a *Big Conundrum?*
> 
> (your response to Karan.1970 just triggered that thought)


 
You're completely right, but that is why I feel politicians fail when it counts because they only do the minimum required to garner re-election. The general public on both sides, swayed by constant propaganda, doesn't have any urgency in dealing with matters...or worse would prefer the status quo to a situation that may seem like a one way concession. So any politician will wonder what is the use of risking his/her political career for gains that will be accomplished long after their time. 

I have my doubts as to how sincere the efforts are by the higher ups in dealing with the Indo-Pak issues...generations of conflict require creative solutions. I often feel the leaders go through the motions to make it seem as though they are putting forth their best effort. Only doing so to increase their leverage when a time comes to irrationally demand concessions at a later date, by proclaiming they have done all they can. I maybe wrong here and this may just be the famed Pakistani love affair with conspiracies that compels me to think this way; years of failed attempts at peace that focus on all the wrong topics and disregard all that is irrational about our disagreements has made me suspicious of politicians.


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## Lightning Soul

What i got to know from someone is that the Aircraft damaged is a *SAAB 2000 AWACS* that is confirmed.But the extent of the damage was not disclosed. Lets be hopeful that the damage is repairable- Keeping my fingers crossed


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## karan.1970

Irfan Baloch said:


> lol
> 
> ge ge
> 
> wo dood peetay buchay hay na



Yar.. sab apni apni theory bana rahe the.. Maine kaha main bhi behti ganga mein haath dho loon


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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> Actually, if I go back to the Mehran Airbase, I do recollect that USA replaced the 2 destroyed P3C Orions.. So may be all this confusion is to get another freebie from USA of the AWACS type



Then one wonders who undertook the renovation of the Taj.

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## Imran Khan

karan.1970 said:


> Yar.. sab apni apni theory bana rahe the.. Maine kaha main bhi behti ganga mein haath dho loon



yes they replace but as companies give old take new

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## Jango

Windjammer said:


> Right guys, at long last, managed to speak to my contact, apart from all the scum bags wasted, one aircraft was damaged.
> 
> A press release will be issued by the PAF in a day or two.



Finally. So can you people forgive me now!


----------



## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> Then one wonders who undertook the renovation of the Taj.



Usual offtopic  from you ... For once talk with a context...


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## timetravel

Imran Khan said:


> but bete jee
> 
> at this time Pakistan has 4 saab-2000 and 2 ZDK-03 TOTAL 6 AWACS
> 
> and india has only 3 phalcons in hands
> 
> 
> to ab apny daddy se keh ker or 2 khareedy phir 5 poory ker ke humy dena



woh time lagega.. abhi order karna hai.. jab chahiye honge tab milenge abhi nai


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## Jango

Lightning Soul said:


> What i got to know from someone is that the Aircraft damaged is a *SAAB 2000 AWACS* that is confirmed.But the extent of the damage was not disclosed. Lets be hopeful that the damage is repairable- Keeping my fingers crossed



Yes. THe Damage was at first time thought to be completely gone. Then after some more analysis, it was deemed that although the damage is significant, it was repairable.


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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> Usual offtopic  from you ... For once talk with a context...



Kia baat hey Karan Miah.....Ganga ka panni kuch ziada garam tha.


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## Amolthebest

Any insight about *'internal'* hand withing Pakistan Army in this attack?


----------



## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> Kia baat hey Karan Miah.....Ganga ka panni kuch ziada garam tha.



Nahin yaar.. Srinagar mein ganga kahan??


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## SEAL

Finally..! 
I can assure you what PAF is telling is 99% true.


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## I M Sikander

timetravel said:


> India dont need to worry about 2-3 Awacs of Pakistan..


Hahah. dude, we know whats worries indians. 



> 2-3 Awacs are not gonna make any difference to India in a conventional war with Pakistan.


The swedish SAAB and chinese AWACS and early warning systems in pakistan's inventory are a massive boost to PAF as force multiplier, keeping in view the length of limited air space PAF has to defend. These AWACS do make a lot of difference on our side whether u like and admit it or not. 



> Infact if Pakistan were to fight and promise not to use Nukes, India would be willing to give 5 Awacs to Pakistan to fight war with India itself.


*Vow, classic example of non sense statement. Grow up dude Please and be mature. *
You are making such senseless statements as if IAF have 2/3 dozen such AWACS and early warning systems in its inventory.


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## Jango

Amolthebest said:


> Any insight about *'internal'* hand withing Pakistan Army in this attack?



Just so you know, it was PAF. I hope you know the difference.

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## Irfan Baloch

Windjammer said:


> Then one wonders who undertook the renovation of the Taj.



by the way

the pictures above of Saab aircrafts mean nothing, they can be old ones. lets wait and see when the real damage will be admitted.

RGP is a not a fire cracker. its area of effect is considerable and so is its damage. if it landed within 10 or 20 meters of the plane then it must have done some damage, I dont have hard figures of a typical blast radius of RPG, terrorists would have used an HEAT or fragmentation round and I guess the later would have a bigger splash.

PAF would do a good job if it discloses the facts earlier because the media will remain on the case and will eventually find out.


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## I M Sikander

Imran Khan said:


> but bete jee
> 
> at this time Pakistan has 4 saab-2000 and 2 ZDK-03 TOTAL 6 AWACS
> and india has only 3 phalcons in hands
> to ab apny daddy se keh ker or 2 khareedy phir 5 poory ker ke humy dena



*Jiggar bohat tight band bajatay hoo qasam sae.*


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## Amolthebest

nuclearpak said:


> Just so you know, it was PAF. I hope you know the difference.




Thanks for the correction. Is there any info. revealed about internal(rogue elements in PAF or base) help to terrorists


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## Safriz

One more myth has been busted in this attack..That is DIY explosives....
Even Afghan government has been blaming Pakistan of not "Securing" Ammonium nitrate fertilizer ands claimin that all terrorists use Ammonium nitrate derived Explosives..
But look at this..












what they have strapped to their chests is no home made ANFO..
Its proper High explosive..Military grade...

who is giving them such specialist military equipment?

It cant be from a Mule's back side..


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## Jango

Irfan Baloch said:


> by the way
> 
> the pictures above of Saab aircrafts mean nothing, they can be old ones. lets wait and see when the real damage will be admitted.
> 
> RGP is a not a fire cracker. its area of effect is considerable and so is its damage. if it landed within 10 or 20 meters of the plane then it must have done some damage, I dont have hard figures of a typical blast radius of RPG, terrorists would have used an HEAT or fragmentation round and I guess the later would have a bigger splash.
> 
> PAF would do a good job if it discloses the facts earlier because the media will remain on the case and will eventually find out.



A Air Marshal yesterday said that RPG was fired from stand off range. Stand off range of RPG is at most 120m for an accurate strike. But seeing that it was not accurate, 150-180 perhaps?

This was what intrigued me. Stand off range?


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## Irfan Baloch

fox said:


> Finally..!
> I can assure you what PAF is telling is 99% true.



I am worried about that 1% :S

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## explorer9

Meticulously planned attack on PAF Mehran/ PAC Kamra, now all the leads will surely go to Waziristan and within few days we will see massive operations in that region. The country would support or remain neutral on this operation and USA will get whatever it wants at any cost.


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## Safriz

Last Hope said:


> Can you please mention your source?


I have edited the original post as it was proved to be dubious..
The picture isnt confirmed..


----------



## Jango

Amolthebest said:


> Thanks for the correction. Is there any info. revealed about internal(rogue elements in PAF or base) help to terrorists



no. nothing till now. The whole back plan will take time to uncover. the whole network, logistics, transport, drop off, handler.

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## karan.1970

Safriz said:


> One more myth has been busted in this attack..That is DIY explosives....
> Even Afghan government has been blaming Pakistan of not "Securing" Ammonium nitrate fertilizer ands claimin that all terrorists use Ammonium nitrate derived Explosives..
> But look at this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what they have strapped to their chests is no home made ANFO..
> Its proper High explosive..Military grade...
> 
> who is giving them such specialist military equipment?
> 
> It cant be from a Mule's back side..



May be Pakistan's supply to Afghan Taliban is finding its way into the hands of TTP.. After all, they are part of the same network (despite to nonsensical classification of good taliban and bad taliban )

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## Irfan Baloch

nuclearpak said:


> A Air Marshal yesterday said that RPG was fired from stand off range. Stand off range of RPG is at most 120m for an accurate strike. But seeing that it was not accurate, 150-180 perhaps?
> 
> This was what intrigued me. Stand off range?



thats a kill range.. RPG-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Range	Percent
50 m 100%
100 m	96 %
200 m	51 %
300 m	22 %
400 m	9 %
500 m	4 %

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## MZUBAIR

Capital Talk 16 August 2012 Geo News Watch Full Episode Online | Live Tv Channels Tv Shows Current Affairs & News

A very good program, potrait all issues.....

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## Irfan Baloch

karan.1970 said:


> May be Pakistan's supply to Afghan Taliban is finding its way into the hands of TTP.. After all, they are part of the same network (despite to nonsensical classification of good taliban and bad taliban )



can be true in this sense but not in Sawati taliban

their factories and depots with Semtex and C4 were at par with our own factories. something that even we have to work our way round to get finances of such quantity.
that yellow cake, cheese thing looks like Semtex even hard to come by.


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## Safriz

Irfan Baloch said:


> by the way
> 
> the pictures above of Saab aircrafts mean nothing, they can be old ones. lets wait and see when the real damage will be admitted.
> 
> RGP is a not a fire cracker. its area of effect is considerable and so is its damage. if it landed within 10 or 20 meters of the plane then it must have done some damage, I dont have hard figures of a typical blast radius of RPG, terrorists would have used an HEAT or fragmentation round and I guess the later would have a bigger splash.
> 
> PAF would do a good job if it discloses the facts earlier because the media will remain on the case and will eventually find out.



Wiki says Lethal radius is 7 to 10 meters....


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## Jango

Irfan Baloch said:


> thats a kill range.. RPG-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Range	Percent
> 50 m 100%
> 100 m	96 %
> 200 m	51 %
> 300 m	22 %
> 400 m	9 %
> 500 m	4 %



The thing here is that if it indeed was from this close, it means that the terrorists infiltrated. 3 killed early, 1 suicide, 5 left.


----------



## Safriz

Irfan Baloch said:


> thats a kill range.. RPG-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Range	Percent
> 50 m 100%
> 100 m	96 %
> 200 m	51 %
> 300 m	22 %
> 400 m	9 %
> 500 m	4 %



Thats hit probability..Or accuracy....

The lethal blast radius is 7 to 10 meters...


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## Irfan Baloch

Safriz said:


> Thats hit probability..Or accuracy....
> 
> The lethal blast radius is 7 to 10 meters...



lethal for personal I guess and that too only 2 types of rounds. there is nothing given for fragmentation round or heavy explosive one which I think will have a bigger splash than 7-10 meters.


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## Safriz

nuclearpak said:


> The thing here is that if it indeed was from this close, it means that the terrorists infiltrated. 3 killed early, 1 suicide, 5 left.



This picture was posted by a member Roybot a few pages ago..







The fuel tanks were the ones initially hit by RPG...and thats the probable hanger that was targeted by attackers...
It is less than 100 metes from boundary wall..But to take a clear shot,one will have to come in the clear as too many trees around...


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## SEAL

Irfan Baloch said:


> I am worried about that 1% :S



Well you can ignore this point in 1% that the aircraft is completely totalled.

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## Windjammer

Irfan Baloch said:


> by the way
> 
> the pictures above of Saab aircrafts mean nothing, they can be old ones. lets wait and see when the real damage will be admitted.
> 
> RGP is a not a fire cracker. its area of effect is considerable and so is its damage. if it landed within 10 or 20 meters of the plane then it must have done some damage, I dont have hard figures of a typical blast radius of RPG, terrorists would have used an HEAT or fragmentation round and I guess the later would have a bigger splash.
> 
> PAF would do a good job if it discloses the facts earlier because the media will remain on the case and will eventually find out.



Albeit, nothing to prove that it was a SAAB aircraft, however, those images are just the photo shoot of the induction ceremony.
Even if the landing gear of the concerned aircraft got caught in the blast, that would be considered as damaged, the guy told me the concerned person are assessing the damage and he simply put it, it's not too little or too great.
The main thing is albeit, it was a surprise attack, the culprits were stopped before they could reach any facility.
If you recall Mehran, the attackers managed to get into the buildings and the siege ended only after an SSG company with corner shot guns was flown in from Tarbela.

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## Jango

The TV said that they entered from the west of this area, parallel of the runway, where the village is closest and a hill is present.


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## tarrar

This Rahman Malik is 100% US puppet when it was declared that these terrorists are foreigners then he comes up with US report & he read US script by saying 4 of them were from NWA, BullSh*t.


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## Dazzler

Goodness, the thread has turned into a sheer rumour mill without any spec of evidence! I stick to what i heard and reported earlier, but i see so many unnecessary posts and even more unnecessary fears creeping people out! Relax a little folks, the moment u see a picture of so called destroyed Saab, then curse PAF as much as you can, till then, take rumours with a pinch of salt.

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## Jango

Windjammer said:


> Albeit, nothing to prove that it was a SAAB aircraft, however, those images are just the photo shoot of the induction ceremony.
> Even if the landing gear of the concerned aircraft got caught in the blast, that would be considered as damaged, the guy told me the concerned person are assessing the damage and he simply put it, it's not too little or too great.
> The main thing is albeit, it was a surprise attack, the culprits were stopped before they could reach any facility.
> If you recall Mehran, the attackers managed to get into the buildings and the siege ended only after an SSG company with corner shot guns was flown in from Tarbela.



It indeed was a very quick reaction.

The sentry Asif caught them very very early, the QRF reacted quickly, and the 2IC was by luck, already there for Sehri. Better reactions this time, all were killed very early, although they did manage to get some damage to the aircraft, they were suppressed early.

Air Marshal Athar Hussain made the head of investigation team. Just in.


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## Roybot

Safriz said:


> One more myth has been busted in this attack..That is DIY explosives....
> Even Afghan government has been blaming Pakistan of not "Securing" Ammonium nitrate fertilizer ands claimin that all terrorists use Ammonium nitrate derived Explosives..
> But look at this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what they have strapped to their chests is no home made ANFO..
> Its proper High explosive..Military grade...
> 
> who is giving them such specialist military equipment?
> 
> It cant be from a Mule's back side..



It looks like Semtex. Its actually a "commercial grade" plastic explosive, used extensively in the mining and demolition industry. Can't be that hard to procure, in Pakistan.

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## Jango

*Aircraft is not destroyed. It is damaged. The early conclusion by the officials was that it was very much damaged and maybe written off, but now it has been ascertained that it is damaged, and is repairable.*

I agree that it was wrong in my earlier posts that it was destroyed, but that was the initial assessment by some there.


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## Shardul.....the lion

Three points against theory of Indian involvement,

1. Indian intelligence agencies are not that stupid to attack installations that will direct the blame back to India. 
2. Indian think tanks are only worried about nuclear assets of Pakistan and the rest focus is currently on China. d
3. Think from angle of TTP, they do not want that Pakistani army start operation on them. Their sworn oath is turn Pakistan into true islamic nation, so they would want Pakistan to focus on its eastern front rather than on western front. So they can choose the targets that can affect India-Pakistan relations badly and turn Pakistani publics opinion from terrorism to India. 
TTP has quite succeeded on their plan as seen on 52 pages of this thread, 99% members are blaming India for attack.

Last but not least, Indian leaders are currently focussed on developing country in technological and economical terms.

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## Safriz

Ironic thing is that defence against RPG isnt impossible..
many research articles claim that a wire mesh fence can deform and deshape an RPG and may even detonate it..Even if the RPG passes through,it will get deformed enough to not detonate properly and lose effectiveness...

Two or three layers of This may have come handy.









nabil_05 said:


> Goodness, the thread has turned into a sheer rumour mill without any spec of evidence! I stick to what i heard and reported earlier, but i see so many unnecessary posts and even more unnecessary fears creeping people out! Relax a little folks, the moment u see a picture of so called destroyed Saab, then curse PAF as much as you can, till then, take rumours with a pinch of salt.



where were you all this time?


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## SEAL

Shardul.....the lion said:


> Three points against theory of Indian involvement,
> 
> 1. Indian intelligence agencies are not that stupid to attack installations that will direct the blame back to India.
> 2. Indian think tanks are only worried about nuclear assets of Pakistan and the rest focus is currently on China. d
> 3. Think from angle of TTP, they do not want that Pakistani army start operation on them. Their sworn oath is turn Pakistan into true islamic nation, so they would want Pakistan to focus on its eastern front rather than on western front. So they can choose the targets that can affect India-Pakistan relations badly and turn Pakistani publics opinion from terrorism to India.
> TTP has quite succeeded on their plan as seen on 52 pages of this thread, 99% members are blaming India for attack.
> 
> Last but not least, Indian leaders are currently focussed on developing country in technological and economical terms.



Insecurity is only for the guilty


----------



## MZUBAIR

Aaj Kamran Khan Kay Sath 16 August 2012 (16-08-2012) Full Pro - YouTube


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## fatman17

*PAF Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C damaged in Minhas attack*

Pakistans Minister of Defense, Syed Naveed Qamar, confirmed last night that the PAF aircraft that was damaged in yesterdays attack on PAF Base Kamra was one of the Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C operated by 3 Squadron. He said that the engineers and technicians from the co-located PAC have now examined the damage to the aircraft and deemed it minor and repairable.

The PAF has four of these aircraft in service with 3 Squadron at Minhas, whilst the unit also flies a standard passenger Saab 2000 as a crew trainer for the type. As reported earlier, the damage incurred by the aircraft was caused by shrapnel from the explosion of a RPG that had been fired at the wall of the hanger in which the Erieye was housed. 

AFD

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## Safriz

Here is what Nabil has to say..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/202635-attack-paf-base-minhas-120.html#post3318760

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/202635-attack-paf-base-minhas-121.html#post3318779


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## timetravel

fox said:


> Insecurity is only for the guilty



no insecurity. its a forum to keep ur points!!

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## Safriz

fatman17 said:


> *PAF Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C damaged in Minhas attack*
> 
> Pakistan&#8217;s Minister of Defense, Syed Naveed Qamar, confirmed last night that the PAF aircraft that was damaged in yesterday&#8217;s attack on PAF Base Kamra was one of the Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C operated by 3 Squadron. He said that the engineers and technicians from the co-located PAC have now examined the damage to the aircraft and deemed it minor and repairable.
> 
> The PAF has four of these aircraft in service with 3 Squadron at Minhas, whilst the unit also flies a standard passenger Saab 2000 as a crew trainer for the type. As reported earlier, the damage incurred by the aircraft was caused by shrapnel from the explosion of a RPG that had been fired at the wall of the hanger in which the Erieye was housed.
> 
> AFD



This News report is from horses mouth..
It was a random chat of the Mr.Minister with a news reporter at an "Iftaar party" at Iranian embassy..
It was not an official statement..

The original statement from this guy sounds stupid...
He actually said..

"Some nozzles of SAAB plane were damaged"..
Now where are the NOZZLES in the SAAB 2000?

Read yourself..
http://images.thenews.com.pk/17-08-2012/ethenews/t-16849.htm


> ISLAMABAD: *A nozzle of an Airborne Warning and Control System (Awacs) aircraft was damaged* as a rocket-propelled grenade hit it when terrorists stormed Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Airbase Minhas in Kamra on Thursday. However, the aircraft is repairable, Minister for Defence Syed Naveed Qamar said.
> &#8220;The engineers and technicians of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex have examined the partially damaged aircraft, and according to the initial report, this most advanced Awacs aircraft of the Saab-2000 category can be repaired,&#8221; said the defence minister while talking to The News at an Iftar-dinner hosted by the Iranian ambassador here on Thursday. &#8220;A test flight of the aircraft will be conducted after repairing it,&#8221; he added.
> According to sources, three to four dozen aircraft were present at the airbase when the terrorists launched the attack. Most of these aircraft were brought to Kamra for overhauling and repair.
> Syed Naveed Qamar, *who was chief guest at the Iftar dinner*, said that the Pakistan-Iran friendship should be promoted for the mutual interest of the two countries. He said all avenues would be explored to enhance cooperation between the two countries in the defence sector and all resources would be utilised for this purpose.
> He said the Pak-Iran economic cooperation would also be promoted and the Pak-Iran gas pipeline would be completed without any further delay.


----------



## Donatello

Irfan Baloch said:


> lol
> 
> ge ge
> 
> wo dood peetay buchay hay na


 


loh jee, yeh kya baat huey?

Mein bhi dood peeta hoon, app nahi peetay?


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## Dazzler

Safriz said:


> Ironic thing is that defence against RPG isnt impossible..
> many research articles claim that a wire mesh fence can deform and deshape an RPG and may even detonate it..Even if the RPG passes through,it will get deformed enough to not detonate properly and lose effectiveness...
> 
> Two or three layers of This may have come handy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> where were you all this time?



I was observing some panic, some outrageous and many sorrow replies but the fact is, we as a nation, do exult gossip more than the reality. In two days, the thread reached 138+ pages without a single authentic report of Saab being destroyed, some even destroyed two and damaged one, leaving no operational Erieye in PAF 

It is a request on my part not to indulge into false news/ rumours before hand, the enemy is succeeding in his mission of demoralizing you whereas the ground reality is otherwise.

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## Shardul.....the lion

fox said:


> Insecurity is only for the guilty



You are talking of insecurity as if I planned entire operation.

This is open forum, everyone has right to express opinions and agree or disagree on points especially conspiracy theories.

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## Safriz

nabil_05 said:


> I was observing some panic, some outrageous and many sorrow replies but the fact is, we as a nation, do exult gossip more than the reality. In two days, the thread reached 138+ pages without a single authentic report of Saab being destroyed, some even destroyed two and damaged one, leaving no operational Erieye in PAF
> 
> It is a request on my part not to indulge into false news/ rumours before hand, the enemy is succeeding in his mission of demoralizing you whereas the ground reality is otherwise.



It was better if PAF had released an official statement about Erieye..
Obviously all of us are concerned.....and good to read your comment 

Although i have to mention here that there are many pages on FB still claiming that one SAAB is damaged.....But without any credible source..


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## karan.1970

fox said:


> Insecurity is only for the guilty



And conspiracy theories are for the insecure

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## Jango

2 Saabs have been destroyed.

There were three stationed at Kamra, Saabs have never before been stationed at Kamra for a time long enough and that too three together. They are usually in 2 in Chaklala, and 2 somewhere else. This was the first time three were there, and bam. So, the terrorists knew about the movement.

Got off the phone from 3-4 folks, and it is confirmed, the official statement will not come for sometime, until the people forget this.

Now, you may call me a hoax, a stupid man, or whatever.


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## krash

Safriz said:


> An RPG fuse is activated at the point of Impact.
> If the point of Impact was Aircraft Hanger wall,the the RPG must have exploded on impact or centimeters inside the breached Hanger..That is if the Hanger was not reinforced as many here suggest....
> After that the explosion expands and effectiveness decreases exponentially with distance.
> 
> Can such an explosion actually destroy an aircraft?


 
Interesting question. The pictures below show the most basic form of RPG defense. Its a simple mesh/cage sort of a thing installed to have the RPG trigger before impacting/piercing the actual armor of the vehicle. Our forces in the WOT have been using tree bark wrapped around the apcs for exactly this purpose as well. Now the aircraft had to have been parked a fare distance away from the hanger wall, at least more than the distance between the cage and the armor in the pictures below, and hence the damage could not have been much (even though the bird would not have been armored), provided the RPG round hit the hanger wall face on.

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## Bratva

nabil_05 said:


> I was observing some panic, some outrageous and many sorrow replies but the fact is, we as a nation, do exult gossip more than the reality. In two days, the thread reached 138+ pages without a single authentic report of Saab being destroyed, some even destroyed two and damaged one, leaving no operational Erieye in PAF
> 
> It is a request on my part not to indulge into false news/ rumours before hand, the enemy is succeeding in his mission of demoralizing you whereas the ground reality is otherwise.




Blame the pathetic attiude of PR team of PAF which let the nation demoralize and didnt issued a clarification. Whatever the damage done to whatever platform, if honestly told earleir about the real picture, it would not have allowed the rumour mill to go bersek. Whats the reason of holding back the info?


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> 2 Saabs have been destroyed.
> 
> There were three stationed at Kamra, Saabs have never before been stationed at Kamra for a time long enough and that too three together. They are usually in 2 in Chaklala, and 2 somewhere else. This was the first time three were there, and bam. So, the terrorists knew about the movement.
> 
> Got off the phone from 3-4 folks, and it is confirmed, the official statement will not come for sometime, until the people forget this.
> 
> Now, you may call me a hoax, a stupid man, or whatever.



i will say save balance of mobile

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## Safriz

nuclearpak said:


> 2 Saabs have been destroyed.
> 
> There were three stationed at Kamra, Saabs have never before been stationed at Kamra for a time long enough and that too three together. They are usually in 2 in Chaklala, and 2 somewhere else. This was the first time three were there, and bam. So, the terrorists knew about the movement.
> 
> Got off the phone from 3-4 folks, and it is confirmed, the official statement will not come for sometime, until the people forget this.
> 
> Now, you may call me a hoax, a stupid man, or whatever.



Did those folks also tell you where exactly the three SAAB parked?

sounds like all three were in the same hanger...


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## Peregrine

Been told that only one aircraft has been slightly damaged.......no idea if it's true or not.


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## Safriz

4 terrorists have been identified...Acording to Raman Malik.



Peregrine said:


> Been told that only one aircraft has been slightly damaged.......no idea if it's true or not.



Too many rumors flying around,lets wait for an official statement..


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## Imran Khan

Safriz said:


> Did those folks also tell you where exactly the three SAAB parked?
> 
> sounds like all three were in the same hanger...




uncle jee hanger is small 

115feet * 300ft hanger

89 ft 81 ft each saab


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## Safriz

Imran Khan said:


> uncle jee hanger is small
> 
> 115feet * 300ft hanger
> 
> 89 ft 81 ft each saab



well that's the point....Three SAABs can only be damaged/destroyed if they were parked in close vicinity...


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## Imran Khan

Safriz said:


> well that's the point....Three SAABs can only be damaged/destroyed if they were parked in close vicinity...



i don't think so i still believe one is little damage


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## Safriz

The P3-orion terrorists were actually holed upinside the hanger where the Aircrafts were parked and the Aircrafts sustained multiple hits by rockets and only then were destroyed..
Here the terrorists came under fire at the point of entry and SSG was on the location within 12 minutes,and no footage shown in the news channels showed smoke rising from a hanger....


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## Bratva

Safriz said:


> The P3-orion terrorists were actually holed upinside the hanger where the Aircrafts were parked and the Aircrafts sustained multiple hits by rockets and only then were destroyed..
> Here the terrorists came under fire *at the point of entry* and SSG was on the location within 12 minutes,and no footage shown in the news channels showed smoke rising from a hanger....




So what do you understand when they said "Crossed three check points" and then suddenly they started saying intercepted at point of entrance?


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## Imran Khan

mafiya said:


> So what do you understand when they said "Crossed three check points" and then suddenly they started saying intercepted at point of entrance?



before that dear when they came near wall and install ladders on it and start cutting fence . this time our luck was better then them . that's why i believe saab are secure


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## Safriz

mafiya said:


> So what do you understand when they said "Crossed three check points" and then suddenly they started saying intercepted at point of entrance?



All news channels had cameras up on the hill Zoomed into the airbase..
Did you see any smoke rising from a Hanger?


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## fatman17

nuclearpak said:


> 2 Saabs have been destroyed.
> 
> There were three stationed at Kamra, Saabs have never before been stationed at Kamra for a time long enough and that too three together. They are usually in 2 in Chaklala, and 2 somewhere else. This was the first time three were there, and bam. So, the terrorists knew about the movement.
> 
> Got off the phone from 3-4 folks, and it is confirmed, the official statement will not come for sometime, until the people forget this.
> 
> Now, you may call me a hoax, a stupid man, or whatever.



no need to spread such rumours - you are only inviting the indians to add fuel to the fire!

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## Bratva

Safriz said:


> All news channels had cameras up on the hill Zoomed into the airbase..
> *Did you see any smoke rising from a Hanger*?



But RPG did pierced through the Hangar and exploded inside it. But we didnot see any smoke than did we?


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## fatman17

nuclearpak said:


> 2 Saabs have been destroyed.
> 
> There were three stationed at Kamra, Saabs have never before been stationed at Kamra for a time long enough and that too three together. They are usually in 2 in Chaklala, and 2 somewhere else. This was the first time three were there, and bam. So, the terrorists knew about the movement.
> 
> Got off the phone from 3-4 folks, and it is confirmed, the official statement will not come for sometime, until the people forget this.
> 
> Now, you may call me a hoax, a stupid man, or whatever.



no need to spread such rumours - you are playing into the hands of the indians. the fact is that the militant attack was un-successful and enemies of pakistan (within and outer) find it hard to believe.

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## Bratva

fatman17 said:


> no need to spread such rumours - you are playing into the hands of the indians. *the fact is that the militant attack was un-successful and enemies of pakistan (within and outer) find it hard to believe*.



Until Real damage assessment is released which will determine who was successful PAF or TTP


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## danger007

AFP 12 hrs ago | 1 Comment
KAMRA ATTACK

ISLAMABAD - A second air man died of injuries sustained in an audacious extremist assault on a key air base, raising the overall death toll from the attack to 11, the military said Friday.
Heavily armed militants dressed in fatigues and wearing suicide vests stormed the base on Thursday, sparking heavy clashes that killed one security official and nine attackers at PAF Base Minhas in the northwestern town of Kamra.
Air Force spokesman Tariq Mahmood told AFP that a second air man had died in hospital on Friday morning as a result of injuries from the assault.
The Pakistani Taliban claimed what was the worst attack on a military base for more than a year, reviving concerns about the safety of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.
PAF Minhas, in Punjab province and only 60 kilometres (35 miles) northwest of Islamabad, has been attacked twice before, but on previous occasions the militants had not managed to penetrate the compound.
Its aeronautical complex assembles Mirage and, with Chinese help, JF-17 fighter jets.


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## Safriz

mafiya said:


> But RPG did pierced through the Hangar and exploded inside it. But we didnot see any smoke than did we?


single RPG round cannot destroy a static plane without starting a fuel fire.....
That too after it had already hit the hanger walls.



danger007 said:


> AFP 12 hrs ago | 1 Comment
> KAMRA ATTACK
> 
> ISLAMABAD - A second air man died of injuries sustained in an audacious extremist assault on a key air base, raising the overall death toll from the attack to 11, the military said Friday.
> Heavily armed militants dressed in fatigues and wearing suicide vests stormed the base on Thursday, sparking heavy clashes that killed one security official and nine attackers at PAF Base Minhas in the northwestern town of Kamra.
> Air Force spokesman Tariq Mahmood told AFP that a second air man had died in hospital on Friday morning as a result of injuries from the assault.
> The Pakistani Taliban claimed what was the worst attack on a military base for more than a year, reviving concerns about the safety of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.
> PAF Minhas, in Punjab province and only 60 kilometres (35 miles) northwest of Islamabad, has been attacked twice before, but on previous occasions the militants had not managed to penetrate the compound.
> Its aeronautical complex assembles Mirage and, with Chinese help, JF-17 fighter jets.



Thanks for the Update...But this is PDF and news come here in minutes...
We already know that...

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## Bratva

> A nozzle of an Airborne Warning and Control System (Awacs) aircraft *was damaged as a rocket-propelled grenade hit* it when terrorists stormed Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Airbase Minhas in Kamra on Thursday. However, the aircraft is repairable, Minister for Defence Syed Naveed Qamar said.
> 
> &#8220;The engineers and technicians of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex have examined the *partially damaged aircraft*, and according to the initial report, this most advanced Awacs aircraft of the Saab-2000 category can be repaired,&#8221; said the defence minister while talking to The News at an Iftar-dinner hosted by the Iranian ambassador here on Thursday. &#8220;A test flight of the aircraft will be conducted after repairing it,&#8221; he added.



So RPG was able to hit AWACS. Now real question remains, Is PAF version true, if true than why rumor mill is persisting so hard and was there more awacs standing beside that AWACS



Safriz said:


> single RPG round cannot destroy a static plane without starting a fuel fire.....
> *That too after it had already hit the hanger walls.*



HEAT or Fragmentation round can do worse and terrorist have abundance of these rounds


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## krash

mafiya said:


> So RPG was able to hit AWACS. Now real question remains, Is PAF version true, if true than *why rumor mill is persisting so hard* and was there more awacs standing beside that AWACS
> 
> 
> 
> HEAT or Fragmentation round can do worse and terrorist have abundance of these rounds



Simple.....because we are Pakistani.


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## fatman17

mafiya said:


> *But RPG did pierced through the Hangar *and exploded inside it. But we didnot see any smoke than did we?



how do you know - did u see it?


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## Safriz

HEAT is shaped charge and is only good for armor piercing as the explosion is concentrated in one point...Once the RPG hits something the shape deforms and effectiveness deteriorates...
Plus RPG is only good for small enclosed spaces such as Armoured vehicles..
For a target the size of Aircraft hanger,it cant be as effective as to destroy a whole aircraft...I fail to see the logic in this argument which is flying around all over...

Fragmentation can do some damage but not to the extent of destroying a plane without fire and smoke.


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## Shameel

Well worth a read on the topic of the Kamra attack:

*Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan: An Instrument of 4th Generation Warfare against Pakistan *

The Pakistani Nationalist: Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan: An Instrument of 4th Generation Warfare against Pakistan


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## Bratva

> *
> It is not clear if it was a Saab-2000 that was damaged during the attack. &#8220;I can tell you that one plane was damaged and it suffered a substantial damage. I cannot reveal the name of the craft&#8230; please wait for the inquiry report,&#8221; said Tariq Mehmood, the PAF spokesman.*



Lingering questions: Is something being hidden about the militants

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## Safriz

mafiya said:


> Lingering questions: Is something being hidden about the militants



These reports were from the initial stages of the attack when nothing was clear...
Later the spokesman was probably asked to STFU by higher command.

I stick by my previous question..
There were about half a dozen news teams surrounding the Airbase reporting Live and cameras zoomed into all corners of airbase...
why we didnt see any hanger burning?

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## Bratva

fatman17 said:


> how do you know - did u see it?



You need to update yourself Mr.Fatman



> &#8220;They were armed with automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades,&#8221; PAF spokesman Group Captain Tariq Mahmood said. He said at least one of the rockets hit a hangar that was holding some aircraft. The rocket pierced the hangar wall and shrapnel from the explosion damaged one of the aircraft inside. The spokesman did not mention the type of aircraft that was damaged in the attack, but another security official, seeking anonymity, said it was a SAAB-2000 Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft that was being used for the reconnaissance missions.





Safriz said:


> HEAT is shaped charge and is only good for armor piercing as the explosion is concentrated in one point...Once the RPG hits something the shape deforms and effectiveness deteriorates...
> Plus RPG is only good for small enclosed spaces such as Armoured vehicles..
> For a target the size of Aircraft hanger,it cant be as effective as to destroy a whole aircraft...I fail to see the logic in this argument which is flying around all over...
> 
> Fragmentation can do some damage but not to the extent of destroying a plane without fire and smoke.



But are we sure Terrorists fired only one RPG towards the hangar?



Safriz said:


> These reports were from the initial stages of the attack when nothing was clear...
> Later the spokesman was probably asked to STFU by higher command.
> 
> I stick by my previous question..
> There were about half a dozen news teams surrounding the Airbase reporting Live and cameras zoomed into all corners of airbase...
> why we didnt see any hanger burning?



So We are certain Higher Command is hiding something. From Substantial to Minor To No Damage. Sign of a nervous person who is definitely hiding something.


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## mylovepakistan

what 2 or 3 awacs were doing at MINHAS airbase?

i mean as members are saying 2 awacs remain stationed at chaklala airbase (?)


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## Bratva

mylovepakistan said:


> what 2 or 3 awacs were doing at MINHAS airbase?
> 
> i mean as members are saying 2 awacs remain stationed at chaklala airbase (?)



For maintenance purposes most probably



mylovepakistan said:


> what 2 or 3 awacs were doing at MINHAS airbase?
> 
> i mean as members are saying 2 awacs remain stationed at chaklala airbase (?)



For maintenance purposes most probably


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## Albatross

The faces and footsoldiers of TTP may be Pakistani (in many instances they have also been foreign), but the planners, financers, suppliers and trainers are not. It may even be that the TTP footsoldiers who carry out terror attacks across Pakistan may not even be aware of the identity of their ultimate controllers and beneficiaries. They may even think that they are carrying out some Jihad for religious purposes when, in fact, all that they are doing is serving the interests of foreign non-Muslim powers and inflicting harm on the world's only nuclear-armed Muslim country. This is not too far-fetched. Victor Ostrovsky, the former Mossad agent, in his 1990 book, By Way of Deception: The Making and Unmaking of a Mossad Officer, revealed that, at any given time, only around 100 people knew they were working for Mossad, whereas the actual number working for Mossad, directly or indirectly, ran in the thousands, all unaware of their actual employer. 

Neutralizing Pakistan's maritime surveillance and anti-submarine/shipping capability can only benefit a state actor with a navy and naval designs against Pakistan. Similarly, neutralizing Pakistan's air-to-air refuelling and airborne early warning and radar jamming capabilities can only benefit a state actor with an air force and aerial designs against Pakistan. Neither of the two can benefit a terrorist organization engaged in urban terrorism and guerrilla warfare in mountainous terrain. Needless to say, terrorist organizations such as the TTP neither have naval or air power, so what threat are they neutralizing by targetting the naval and air power of Pakistan? Thus, it is clear that the TTP is engaged in 4th generation warfare against Pakistan at the behest of a foreign state actor or actor(s).

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## indiatester

Albatross said:


> Neutralizing Pakistan's maritime surveillance and anti-submarine/shipping capability can only benefit a state actor with a navy and naval designs against Pakistan. Similarly, neutralizing Pakistan's air-to-air refuelling and airborne early warning and radar jamming capabilities can only benefit a state actor with an air force and aerial designs against Pakistan.


These would have been more believable if some advantage was taken by the "state actor" after these attacks. None have come to notice. P3C's were destroyed. Forget an attack, not even naval posturing took place.
Like others are saying, state actors would be more bothered about the nukes rather than these force multipliers.


----------



## Shameel

Albatross said:


> The faces and footsoldiers of TTP may be Pakistani (in many instances they have also been foreign), but the planners, financers, suppliers and trainers are not. It may even be that the TTP footsoldiers who carry out terror attacks across Pakistan may not even be aware of the identity of their ultimate controllers and beneficiaries. They may even think that they are carrying out some Jihad for religious purposes when, in fact, all that they are doing is serving the interests of foreign non-Muslim powers and inflicting harm on the world's only nuclear-armed Muslim country. This is not too far-fetched. Victor Ostrovsky, the former Mossad agent, in his 1990 book, By Way of Deception: The Making and Unmaking of a Mossad Officer, revealed that, at any given time, only around 100 people knew they were working for Mossad, whereas the actual number working for Mossad, directly or indirectly, ran in the thousands, all unaware of their actual employer.
> 
> Neutralizing Pakistan's maritime surveillance and anti-submarine/shipping capability can only benefit a state actor with a navy and naval designs against Pakistan. Similarly, neutralizing Pakistan's air-to-air refuelling and airborne early warning and radar jamming capabilities can only benefit a state actor with an air force and aerial designs against Pakistan. Neither of the two can benefit a terrorist organization engaged in urban terrorism and guerrilla warfare in mountainous terrain. Needless to say, terrorist organizations such as the TTP neither have naval or air power, so what threat are they neutralizing by targetting the naval and air power of Pakistan? Thus, it is clear that the TTP is engaged in 4th generation warfare against Pakistan at the behest of a foreign state actor or actor(s).



Please put inverted commas on quotes and provide the source of the quote. The above quote is from the following article:

The Pakistani Nationalist: Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan: An Instrument of 4th Generation Warfare against Pakistan

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## Safriz

Stop behaving like school teachers stopping plagiarism

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## Donatello

nuclearpak said:


> 2 Saabs have been destroyed.
> 
> There were three stationed at Kamra, Saabs have never before been stationed at Kamra for a time long enough and that too three together. They are usually in 2 in Chaklala, and 2 somewhere else. This was the first time three were there, and bam. So, the terrorists knew about the movement.
> 
> Got off the phone from 3-4 folks, and it is confirmed, the official statement will not come for sometime, until the people forget this.
> 
> Now, you may call me a hoax, a stupid man, or whatever.



It is very hard to believe that two have been destroyed....

Anyway, today's Newspaper had an article stating that Airforce is in talks with Sweden's Saab, as they are sending one aircraft for repairs..........


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## Dance

Donatello said:


> It is very hard to believe that two have been destroyed....
> 
> Anyway, today's Newspaper had an article stating that Airforce is in talks with Sweden's Saab, as they are sending one aircraft for repairs..........



Every official that has been quoted by newspapers is saying only one aircraft has been damaged-not destroyed

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## Jango

Safriz said:


> Did those folks also tell you where exactly the three SAAB parked?
> 
> sounds like all three were in the same hanger...



The RPG landed in fornt of the nose of the aircraft. The shockwave has done body and structural damage. One aircraft is more serious than the other. The good thing is that the rocket did not hit the SAAB directly, rather in front. 

The Saab team will then come to inspect the damage.

People need to understand that in aviation, aircraft destroyed does not mean blown to bits and pieces. A aircraft's skin is very weak, and depending on the damage a assessment is done. Unlike a car, which can be dented and painted, aircraft cannot. If the RPG shockwave damaged the wing spar or some other crucial part, then it is written off. 

ANother thing is the cost offset. Is the repair cost justifiable by the use of the platform. If it was a F-7, no it is not. If it is a Saab or Il-78, yes it is justifiable if it was within the limits.

And no, i didn't ask the location.

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## nwmalik

Roybot said:


> It looks like Semtex. Its actually a "commercial grade" plastic explosive, used extensively in the mining and demolition industry. Can't be that hard to procure, in Pakistan.




if u look u can see plant pot and solid flooring indicating that this was inside a building.
sorry i could not include the picture with this post showing one of the dead terrorist.


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## Jango

Dance said:


> Every official that has been quoted by newspapers is saying only one aircraft has been damaged-not destroyed



Seriously damaged. Now the Saab team will do their report and get the damage assessment and the cost, and PAF will have the final say. 

If the structure of the aircraft has sustained enough damage, it is useless, even though it may seem fine on the surface.

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## DV RULES

All facts and figures are giving only one result about mastermind of this attack: INDIA. They got and we lost. Let's see next....... PA+PAF+PN.


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## Dance

nuclearpak said:


> Seriously damaged. Now the Saab team will do their report and get the damage assessment and the cost, and PAF will have the final say.
> 
> If the structure of the aircraft has sustained enough damage, it is useless, even though it may seem fine on the surface.



True. 

I think its best for the official reports to come out.

Right now everyone is just speculating on the extent of the damage.


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## Jango

Safriz said:


> These reports were from the initial stages of the attack when nothing was clear...
> Later the spokesman was probably asked to STFU by higher command.
> 
> I stick by my previous question..
> There were about half a dozen news teams surrounding the Airbase reporting Live and cameras zoomed into all corners of airbase...
> why we didnt see any hanger burning?



Why is it necessary for it to burn. RPG hits in front, and does enough structural and body damage to the aircraft.

This part is clear through the PAF spokesman and the MoD, that a RPG did hit the aircraft or somewhere near it. Now, no refute has come by PAF, nor any statement that it is safe. They are saying damage, sometimes say big damage, sometimes not so much.

The links to the spokesman claim has also been given by mafiya that it sustained big damage.

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## Jango

mylovepakistan said:


> what 2 or 3 awacs were doing at MINHAS airbase?
> 
> i mean as members are saying 2 awacs remain stationed at chaklala airbase (?)



Excellent question. 3 aircraft had never before come to Kamra at one time. This was the first time that they were at the same place. And boom. Before it was 2 at Chaklala, and others somewhere else.

I suspect inside info, how else could they have known that 3 aircraft are there at same time?


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## Thorn

^^^^this maulanafazlulla guy needs to be banned


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## Icarus

nuclearpak said:


> The RPG landed in fornt of the nose of the aircraft. The shockwave has done body and structural damage. One aircraft is more serious than the other. The good thing is that the rocket did not hit the SAAB directly, rather in front.
> 
> The Saab team will then come to inspect the damage.
> 
> People need to understand that in aviation, aircraft destroyed does not mean blown to bits and pieces. A aircraft's skin is very weak, and depending on the damage a assessment is done. Unlike a car, which can be dented and painted, aircraft cannot. If the RPG shockwave damaged the wing spar or some other crucial part, then it is written off.
> 
> ANother thing is the cost offset. Is the repair cost justifiable by the use of the platform. If it was a F-7, no it is not. If it is a Saab or Il-78, yes it is justifiable if it was within the limits.
> 
> And no, i didn't ask the location.




Where'd you get this info?


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## illusion8

nuclearpak said:


> Excellent question. 3 aircraft had never before come to Kamra at one time. This was the first time that they were at the same place. And boom. Before it was 2 at Chaklala, and others somewhere else.
> 
> I suspect inside info, how else could they have known that 3 aircraft are there at same time?



info on exact time, location and bearings - probably must have had some kind of internal help.


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## Safriz

DV RULES said:


> All facts and figures are giving only one result about mastermind of this attack: INDIA. They got and we lost. Let's see next....... PA+PAF+PN.



Not yet, i will wait for official confirmation of Erieye damage...


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## Thorn

^^^^^ u'll be banned in a few secs so


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## Jango

Icarus said:


> Where'd you get this info?



What info?

This was even said by 2 or 3 retired Air Marshals on TV yesterday!!!

Then the MoD also said that a RPG hit the front of the aircraft, so did the PAF spokesman. Link was provided by mafiya in the previous page i think.

PAF spokesman also said that it was serious damage. *This is not really top secret stuff i am saying here, people have said it on TV and also by PAF spokesman and MoD.*

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## Albatross

Thorn said:


> ^^^^this maulanafazlulla guy needs to be banned



Hez an indian troll and needs to be kicked on his a$$ sooner the better..no need to reply to him..

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## Kompromat

ah - one less Internet hindu , his IP was traced to Gujrat India. Why can't these people get enough of this **** ?

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## Irfan Baloch

Thorn said:


> ^^^^this maulanafazlulla guy needs to be banned



yea this leader of TTP is bullying us from India that just proves Indians are the masterminds

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## Icarus

Aeronaut said:


> ah - one less Internet hindu , his IP was traced to Gujrat India. Why can't these people get enough of this **** ?




These guys would give anything to walk in our shoes for a day, unfortunately, their habit of being an a$$ does not let them progress much as Pakistanis.

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## KRAIT

Irfan Baloch said:


> yea this leader of TTP is bullying us from India that just proves Indians are the masterminds


Is it a joke...please say ...yes....

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## Jango

Irfan Baloch said:


> yea this leader of TTP is bullying us from India that just proves Indians are the masterminds



So we have proof of Indian involvement!!!

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## Thorn

Irfan Baloch said:


> yea this leader of TTP is bullying us from India that just proves Indians are the masterminds



good now indians wont ask us to proove it


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## KRAIT

nuclearpak said:


> So we have proof of Indian involvement!!!


Irfan did what even GoP wouldn't have done in years....

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## mak2000

Calling these guys armed militants doesn't sound appropriate.These guys must be members of a highly trained commando force. One important difference with conventional commando force is that they are motivated/brainwashed to kill themselves when it is required to do so. Good question to ask, who is training them? Is it yet another intelligence failure?


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## Emmie

nuclearpak said:


> What info?
> 
> This was even said by 2 or 3 retired Air Marshals on TV yesterday!!!
> 
> Then the MoD also said that a RPG hit the front of the aircraft, so did the PAF spokesman. Link was provided by mafiya in the previous page i think.
> 
> PAF spokesman also said that it was serious damage. *This is not really top secret stuff i am saying here, people have said it on TV and also by PAF spokesman and MoD.*



Dude can I have links to those videos, or at least names of channels and programs? Its not like this I don't believe you, I missed those shows and now I want to watch analysis in details.


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## Jango

KRAIT said:


> Irfan did what even GoP wouldn't have done in years....



TBH, i trust Irfan to be more competent than the government (civilian bureaucracy)!!!

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## Peregrine

In one report they mentioned that the commander of these terrorists was guiding them from a distant location via some wireless device and when they tracked his location he blew himself up. Have a feeling that he could be the one with all the inside info.


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## Bratva

mak2000 said:


> These guys must be members of a highly trained commando force. Calling them armed militants doesn't sound appropriate. One important difference with conventional commando force is that they are motivated/brainwashed to kill themselves when it is required to do so. Good question to ask, who is training them?



Khorasan Force in NWA. Only these people are trained to carry out suck attacks.


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## Jango

Emmie said:


> Dude can I have links to those videos, or at least names of channels and programs? Its not like this I don't believe you, I missed those shows and now I want to watch analysis in details.



The news link was provided by mafiya, as for the video link, try the Geo program yesterday (good discussion there), and there was one on Aaj or Ary i think(not sure about which one of these two or the exact one). 8 pm shows. And then one was in the news bulletin. Before Sehri time.

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## Jango

Peregrine said:


> In one report they mentioned that the commander of these terrorists was guiding them from a distant location via some wireless device and when they tracked his location he blew himself up. Have a feeling that he could be the one with all the inside info.



There was this news in the headlines today on Geo.

_8 terrorists killed, 4 captured._. 4 were confirmed as being involved in this? Good breakthrough if correct.

ANd yeah, one guy stayed behind, just near the outer wall and later blew himself.


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## Bratva

nuclearpak said:


> The news link was provided by mafiya, as for the video link, try the Geo program yesterday (good discussion there), and there was one on Aaj or Ary i think(not sure about which one of these two or the exact one). 8 pm shows. And then one was in the news bulletin. Before Sehri time.




Kal tak by Javaid Chohdhary yesterday. Some Retired Air Marshal was invited. He also provided some good analysis.


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## Bratva

BTW, it's interesting to see how much headache khorasaan force will give to Pak army in next upcoming NWA operation


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## Jango

mafiya said:


> Kal tak by Javaid Chohdhary yesterday. Some Retired Air Marshal was invited. He also provided some good analysis.



Yeah. There were all the 8 pm shows on this topic yesterday with retired PAF, that i kept on juggling through all of them!!! aik naam bhi yaad nhn rehta.


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## Hyperion

nuclearpak said:


> Seriously damaged. Now the Saab team will do their report and get the damage assessment and the cost, and PAF will have the final say.
> 
> If the structure of the aircraft has sustained enough damage, it is useless, even though it may seem fine on the surface.



Mate, what's the final take of the situation - I've read 5 conflicting versions of the story penned by yourself @ different sources?

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## KRAIT

Hyperion said:


> Mate, what's the final take of the situation - I've read 5 conflicting versions of the story penned by yourself @ different sources?


Seriously buddy.... I now think that there may be possibility that an Indian AWACS was also destroyed.....so many "confirmed" news from "trusted" sources.....I don't know what to believe.....

*Can someone give the final answer.*...2149 posts, yet no satisfying answer..

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## Emmie

mafiya said:


> Kal tak by Javaid Chohdhary yesterday. Some Retired Air Marshal was invited. He also provided some good analysis.



Courtesy AA.



Asim Aquil said:


> Ok IL-78 didn't get a direct hit, some shrapnel got hit when an RPG fell close to it. All in all its in good condition. It was just reported in Kal Tak on Express News.



I din't watch that show because of Laal topi and PPP fella, but got an extract through AA.

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## Bratva

Hyperion said:


> Mate, what's the final take of the situation - I've read 5 conflicting versions of the story penned by yourself @ different sources?



PAF and Nuclearpak trolling us both. Thats the final take.

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## khail007

Safriz said:


> India should stop supporting terrorism in Pakistan.....
> The only country that will benifit from P-3 Orion destruction and SAAB AWACS destruction is India,and Taliban presumably have no sympathies with India?



Bro, question you put-up have weightage, you are right all leads seems to be pointing towards india.

Otherwise neither TTP own a navy nor airforce, then why thery are after only those targets which are india centric? What benefit TTP will get from destroying such targets?

Could anyone (with more *knowledgable* on this subject) explain? *Trolls* should keep away...


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## Hyperion

KRAIT said:


> Seriously buddy.... I now think that there may be possibility that an Indian AWACS was also destroyed.....so many "confirmed" news from "trusted" sources.....I don't know what to believe.....
> 
> *Can someone give the final answer.*...2149 posts, yet no satisfying answer..



As I mentioned before, no one will utter a word. Officers @ Air Force have been gagged not to say anything. All I got out is "no comment", and to be perfectly honest that is how is should be. We are dealing with the armed forces of Pakistan, they should maintain the official code of conduct.

I remember, when my dad was working @ government in the good ol' days, he wouldn't even attend a get-togheter at political persons home. He used to tell us that it is not in his capacity to do so as civil servant. However, I think things have changed for the worse in the last decade or so, as I see people disclosing state secrets so brazenly, all in the name of "individual rights"!

Whatever.... makes me extremely sad to see all this....


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## SamantK

khail007 said:


> Bro, question you put-up have weightage, you are right all leads seems to be pointing towards india.
> 
> Otherwise neither TTP own a navy nor airforce, then why thery are after only those targets which are india centric? What benefit TTP will get from destroying such targets?
> 
> Could anyone (with more *knowledgable* on this subject) explain? *Trolls* should keep away...



Thanks for your declaration, a military is supposedly planing to attack you and you decide to attack their base instead, now what will you destroy? The thing which hurts the most, got it? 

Now India would be happy and may have its hands but looks like your Army and Govt. does not think so, who do you believe?


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## Jango

Hyperion said:


> Mate, what's the final take of the situation - I've read 5 conflicting versions of the story penned by yourself @ different sources?



And how did I contradict my self five times?


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## Albatross

mafiya said:


> BTW, it's interesting to see how much headache khorasaan force will give to Pak army in next upcoming NWA operation



khorasan force whats that ..never heard of it before


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## Bratva

Albatross said:


> khorasan force whats that ..never heard of it before



TTP commando force. Google it, you will find more info


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## Jango

Hyperion said:


> As I mentioned before, no one will utter a word. Officers @ Air Force have been gagged not to say anything. All I got out is "no comment", and to be perfectly honest that is how is should be. We are dealing with the armed forces of Pakistan, they should maintain the official code of conduct.
> 
> I remember, when my dad was working @ government in the good ol' days, he wouldn't even a attend get-togheter at political persons home. He used to tell us that it is not in his capacity to do so as civil servant. However, I think things have changed for the worse in the last decade or so, as I see people disclosing state secrets so brazenly, all in the name of "individual rights"!
> 
> Whatever.... makes me extremely sad to see all this....



It still is like that. 

I am not saying anything that is top secret. This 2 aircraft theory was put on TV by some guy, at first i thought it was BS because as per PAF terrorists were caught at early stage. All in the news was that a IL-78 and a 'electronic tayyara' had been damaged by shrapnel, and the base commander was also somewhere near AWACS.

Then as night came, more people on TV, air marshals, mentioned this. I got in touch with my source, and all he answered was yes/no. I asked him is it true that what is on TV. He kept on replying in yes/no. Not a word more, not a word less.

The infiltration story was also not PAF person. 

Aur waisay bhi bhai, duniya ko bauhaut kuch pata hai, jo humain nhn.

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## Emmie

Albatross said:


> khorasan force whats that ..never heard of it before



Armageddon, fake soldiers of Khurassan! Don't you know?


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## Kompromat

mafiya said:


> BTW, it's interesting to see how much headache khorasaan force will give to Pak army in next upcoming NWA operation



If you are glorifying these morons through Korasan reference you better start counting your time on this forum !

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## Peregrine

khail007 said:


> Bro, question you put-up have weightage, you are right all leads seems to be pointing towards india.
> 
> Otherwise neither TTP own a navy nor airforce, then why thery are after only those targets which are india centric? What benefit TTP will get from destroying such targets?
> 
> Could anyone (with more *knowledgable* on this subject) explain? *Trolls* should keep away...


Like you said, the point raised by Safriz can't be ignored, but latest studies suggest that the actual target of terrorists are not the immediate victims but the people who follow the news, they are the ones who are being conveyed the messages in a sadistic kind of way......... inshort it's all part of psychological warfare to influence the public opinion about failure of state machinery in protecting the citizens.


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## Shameel

samantk said:


> Thanks for your declaration, a military is supposedly planing to attack you and you decide to attack their base instead, now what will you destroy? The thing which hurts the most, got it?


 
Wrong. You select the target and base that hurts you most. In this case, it was neither Kamra nor the Saabs.

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## Hyperion

nuclearpak said:


> It still is like that.
> 
> I am not saying anything that is top secret. This 2 aircraft theory was put on TV by some guy, at first i thought it was BS because as per PAF terrorists were caught at early stage. All in the news was that a IL-78 and a 'electronic tayyara' had been damaged by shrapnel, and the base commander was also somewhere near AWACS.
> 
> Then as night came, more people on TV, air marshals, mentioned this. I got in touch with my source, and all he answered was yes/no. I asked him is it true that what is on TV. He kept on replying in yes/no. Not a word more, not a word less.
> 
> The infiltration story was also not PAF person.
> 
> Aur waisay bhi bhai, duniya ko bauhaut kuch pata hai, jo humain nhn.



Mate, let's stick to the release @ ISPR. That way, few sentimental friends abroad won't fry their brain-cells!

What say you?

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## Emmie

Aeronaut said:


> If you are glorifying these morons through Korasan reference you better start counting your time on this forum !



Absolutely sir, no way these morons can be compared with those of Khurassan.


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## Jango

Hyperion said:


> Mate, let's stick to the release @ ISPR. That way, few sentimental friends abroad won't fry their brain-cells!
> 
> What say you?



Yeah, let's do that for now. Allah Hafiz. BTW, PAF story has changed 3 times as well!


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## SamantK

Shameel said:


> Wrong. You select the target and base that hurts you most. In this case, it was neither Kamra nor the Saabs.



And your forces have only those, destroy 4 JF-17s and there are no other JF-17s available to kill them right?


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## Bratva

nuclearpak said:


> It still is like that.
> 
> I am not saying anything that is top secret. This 2 aircraft theory was put on TV by some guy, at first i thought it was BS because as per PAF terrorists were caught at early stage. All in the news was that a IL-78 and a 'electronic tayyara' had been damaged by shrapnel, and the base commander was also somewhere near AWACS.
> 
> Then as night came, more people on TV, air marshals, mentioned this. I got in touch with my source, and all he answered was yes/no. I asked him is it true that what is on TV. He kept on replying in yes/no. Not a word more, not a word less.
> 
> The infiltration story was also not PAF person.
> 
> Aur waisay bhi bhai, duniya ko bauhaut kuch pata hai, jo humain nhn.


 


Aeronaut said:


> If you are glorifying these morons through Korasan reference you better start counting your time on this forum !



i'm amazed you fail to see the point i'm making, glorifying those who brutally beheads people and mercilessly torture people and whose only objective is to kill a person with most brutal way and do or die when attacking Pak Army or its assests.


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## Hyperion

mafiya said:


> BTW, it's interesting to see how much headache khorasaan force will give to Pak army in next upcoming NWA operation



This time the army will have their gloves off. When they see howitzers firing DU-penetrator munition, f16's using Mk-82, AWACS scanning the terahertz spectrum watching microbes in their arses! Then you see how the khoorasan forces run to their mamas!


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## Albatross

Emmie said:


> Absolutely sir, no way these morons can be compared with those of Khurassan.


can somebody provide some link where I can read about these fake khorasan soldiers?


----------



## Abdi-Karim Elmi

Hyperion said:


> Bekle, ayni bok geliyor!



Do you live in Izmir..


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## Last Hope

Safriz said:


> I have edited the original post as it was proved to be dubious..
> The picture isnt confirmed..


Your post had me humiliated in front of 'authorities'.


nuclearpak said:


> Excellent question. 3 aircraft had never before come to Kamra at one time. This was the first time that they were at the same place. And boom. Before it was 2 at Chaklala, and others somewhere else.
> 
> I suspect inside info, how else could they have known that 3 aircraft are there at same time?



Chaklala usually has 2 Saab-2000. One is a passenger/transport version. And there is no inside connection stop being paranoid. With inside help, the damage and attack would have been severe. The interception by ISI six days prior to attack was moderately detailed and had no mention of any inside involvement.

They MUST have been spying the movements of PAF Base Minhas and Saab-2000s for 2-3 weeks.



nuclearpak said:


> It still is like that.
> 
> I am not saying anything that is top secret. This 2 aircraft theory was put on TV by some guy, at first i thought it was BS because as per PAF terrorists were caught at early stage. All in the news was that a IL-78 and a 'electronic tayyara' had been damaged by shrapnel, and the base commander was also somewhere near AWACS.
> 
> Then as night came, more people on TV, air marshals, mentioned this. I got in touch with my source, and all he answered was yes/no. I asked him is it true that what is on TV. He kept on replying in yes/no. Not a word more, not a word less.
> 
> The infiltration story was also not PAF person.
> 
> Aur waisay bhi bhai, duniya ko bauhaut kuch pata hai, jo humain nhn.



IL-78 is a huge aircraft that the cameras can pick from far away. Hence they kept showing it. And only a poor officer would tell his fellow friend slight hint of what happened, not to mention the 'friend' is posting whatever he says on the forum. The PAF personnel should not even have talked to media, media is liable to military establishment, not the reverse.


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## Emmie

Albatross said:


> can somebody provide some link where I can read about these fake khorasan soldiers?



In simple English, mafia being sarcastic there referred to TTP scum. Thats ample for you to know. 

Now please go ahead with topic.


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## khail007

samantk said:


> Thanks for your declaration, a military is supposedly planing to attack you and you decide to attack their base instead, now what will you destroy? The thing which hurts the most, got it?
> 
> Now India would be happy and may have its hands but looks like your Army and Govt. does not think so, who do you believe?



Mehran and Kamrah incidents does not took place in hostile atmosphere among India and Pakistan, but in rather friendly developing environment, here you seems to be submitting. In the next line you try to decline it as GOP and PA does not think so. Please be consistant in your statements.

It looks like, that you will only plead guilty when the blame will be put-up by GOP.


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## Safriz

Last Hope said:


> Your post had me humiliated in front of 'authorities'.
> 
> 
> Chaklala usually has 2 Saab-2000. One is a passenger/transport version. And there is no inside connection stop being paranoid. With inside help, the damage and attack would have been severe. The interception by ISI six days prior to attack was moderately detailed and had no mention of any inside involvement.
> 
> They MUST have been spying the movements of PAF Base Minhas and Saab-2000s for 2-3 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> IL-78 is a huge aircraft that the cameras can pick from far away. Hence they kept showing it. And only a poor officer would tell his fellow friend slight hint of what happened, not to mention the 'friend' is posting whatever he says on the forum. The PAF personnel should not even have talked to media, media is liable to military establishment, not the reverse.




About SAAB destroyed completely....Some other people from Kamra colony are claiming the same...many say they have heard the reports from somebody they know who works at the airbase....
I haven't posted any of these "Confirmed reports" as none of their stories make sens....At lest not to me.

I will wait for official confirmation ....

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## wakapdf

People on the other side of the border need to realize that all this hate they are spewing up, would and most definitely will come back to bite them in their behind. When Mumbai happened, moderators took some steps so that none of our Indian members would get offended. But this is just nonsense... Dont expect to see sympathy from Pak members when something like this happens in your country in the future!

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## SamantK

khail007 said:


> Mehran and Kamrah incidents does not took place in hostile atmosphere among India and Pakistan, but in rather friendly developing environment, here you seems to be submitting. In the next line you try to decline it as GOP and PA does not think so. Please be consistant in your statements.
> 
> It looks like, that you will only plead guilty when the blame will be put-up by GOP.



Guilty! Wow, India cannot be guilty atleast not for terrorism when compared.. nuff said!


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## khail007

samantk said:


> Guilty! Wow, India cannot be guilty atleast not for terrorism when compared.. nuff said!



I respect your opinion...

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## Albatross

though i don agree with all the things but few things are worth listening..


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## Emmie

Guys this thread is about _Attack on PAF Base Minhas_.. Please feel free to use members club.

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## Imran Khan

we are facing terror since many years and these comentory guys talking same big threat since years were the hell is that big threat ? is something big then this everyday 40-50 pakistani killed ? not in even iraq afghanistan

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## chauvunist

What would be or should be our response in case of any foreign hand(which probably is)involvement in this attack.....


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## Imran Khan

chauvunist said:


> What would be or should be our response in case of any foreign hand(which probably is)involvement in this attack.....



ISI wrrite a note and keep it when we have free time we will did with them same

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## Edevelop

Safriz said:


> About SAAB destroyed completely....Some other people from Kamra colony are claiming the same...many say they have heard the reports from somebody they know who works at the airbase....
> I haven't posted any of these "Confirmed reports" as none of their stories make sens....At lest not to me.
> 
> I will wait for official confirmation ....



Notice the hangers... I wonder why SAABs were not place there....


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## Jango

Last Hope said:


> Your post had me humiliated in front of 'authorities'.
> 
> 
> Chaklala usually has 2 Saab-2000. One is a passenger/transport version. And there is no inside connection stop being paranoid. With inside help, the damage and attack would have been severe. The interception by ISI six days prior to attack was moderately detailed and had no mention of any inside involvement.



I also thought the same, that some good recce was done by them. But I don't think it is quite possible to spot the specific number of aircraft at an airport by seeing it landing. 

Another possibility though is the hilly area to the south, near the village being mentioned. Those hills provide a very good vantage point for spotting. That's where the media came as well!!

IMO< Kamra is a huge place to guard for a single regiment. DSG cannot guard Kamra as a whole, alot more men are needed iof it is near a civilian population.

As for the intel report, Geo aired a document yesterday, it showed some letter number and some address, and mentioned that a terrorist attack expected on 27th and 28th Ramzan, with the target being Lahore and other installations.

The target selection of the terrorists really baffles me. Why Saab?


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## Imran Khan

cb4 said:


> Notice the hangers... I wonder why SAABs were not place there....



o mery bhai 
its chaklala you know this hanger is not for storage its for upgrade C-130 ? this hanger is in front of taxiway of airport ? everyday civilian planes move in front of this hanger . this hanger is not safe at all its big because of C-130s 

look i take images of this hanger

c-130 in front of that hanger

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## Jango

Safriz said:


> About SAAB destroyed completely....Some other people from Kamra colony are claiming the same...many say they have heard the reports from somebody they know who works at the airbase....
> I haven't posted any of these "Confirmed reports" as none of their stories make sens....At lest not to me.
> 
> I will wait for official confirmation ....



It's an open secret. 50k people know about this. Whole of Kamra base facility knows this.


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## TAC

nuclearpak said:


> 2 Saabs have been destroyed.
> 
> There were three stationed at Kamra, Saabs have never before been stationed at Kamra for a time long enough and that too three together. They are usually in 2 in Chaklala, and 2 somewhere else. This was the first time three were there, and bam. So, the terrorists knew about the movement.
> 
> Got off the phone from 3-4 folks, and it is confirmed, the official statement will not come for sometime, until the people forget this.
> 
> Now, you may call me a hoax, a stupid man, or whatever.



Here is a report quoting an official source -I would respectfully ask that people stick to official sources rather than rumour.

Surveillance plane damaged in airbase attack: QamarAug 17, 2012

Islamabad: A Saab-2000 airborne early warning aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force was damaged during the terrorist attack on Kamra airbase, Defence Minister Naveed Qamar has said.

The nose of the aircraft was damaged when a group of heavily armed terrorists stormed the airbase in Punjab province early yesterday morning, Qamar told reporters last night.

Pakistan army soldiers stand guard at the Minhas base at Kamra. Reuters

After initial repairs in Pakistan, the aircraft will be sent to Sweden&#8212;where it was manufactured&#8212;for an inspection, he said.

Speaking after he was briefed by senior PAF officials, Qamar said the aircraft was hit either by bullets or fragments of a rocket-propelled grenade fired by the terrorists.

It was not clear whether the plane was airworthy.

&#8220;A test flight of the aircraft will be conducted after repairing it,&#8221; the minister said.

Though the aircraft can be repaired in Pakistan, it will still be sent to the manufacturer for an inspection, Qamar said.

&#8220;The engineers and technicians of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex have examined the partially damaged aircraft, and according to the initial report, this most advanced aircraft of the Saab-2000 category can be repaired,&#8221; he said.

Nine terrorists and two security personnel were killed during the attack.

The terrorists, who were wearing military uniforms and suicide vests, tried to target a hangar with RPGs.

Eight terrorists were killed within the airbase while another blew himself up outside the perimeter.

The banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan claimed responsibility for the attack, saying its suicide attackers targeted the airbase to avenge the killing of Taliban commander Baitullah Mehsud and al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden.

According to media reports, over three dozen aircraft were in the airbase at the time of the attack, including two Il-78 refuelling aircraft, 25 fighter jets and several Saab-2000 surveillance aircraft.

A PAF spokesman had said on Thursday that only one aircraft was damaged in the attack.

The PAF had acquired four Saab-2000 surveillance aircraft from Sweden in 2010.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/surve...ar-421651.html

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## Imran Khan

*After initial repairs in Pakistan, the aircraft will be sent to Sweden&#8212;where it was manufactured&#8212;for an inspection, he said.
&#8220;A test flight of the aircraft will be conducted after repairing it,&#8221; the minister said.

Though the aircraft can be repaired in Pakistan, it will still be sent to the manufacturer for an inspection, Qamar said.

&#8220;The engineers and technicians of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex have examined the partially damaged aircraft, and according to the initial report, this most advanced aircraft of the Saab-2000 category can be repaired,&#8221; he said.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/202635-attack-paf-base-minhas-151.html#ixzz23qScA0RV



*

its mean not destroy but damage and can be repaired

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## Vassnti

nuclearpak said:


> The target selection of the terrorists really baffles me. Why Saab?



People firing RPGs from the primeter, its big its close enough just shoot at any thing that looks like a target. Your looking at the planes from pics on a comp in a nice room with perhaps a coffee. 
Now we are going to test your aircraft recogniton skills in the dark while we shoot at you while half your team is down and either dead or screaming you have one second pic your target go, now, shoot, too late. your dead. 

Did they pic the saab or just shoot at the big white one?

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## TAC

Safriz said:


> About SAAB destroyed completely....Some other people from Kamra colony are claiming the same...many say they have heard the reports from somebody they know who works at the airbase....
> I haven't posted any of these "Confirmed reports" as none of their stories make sens....At lest not to me.
> 
> I will wait for official confirmation ....



They do not make sense to you because they are the usual Pakistani sensationalist rumour mill in overdrive. See my previous post for what an official source says - and PAF has said all along -- 1 aircraft damaged -- now confirmed as will be repaired in Pakistan. If someone has an official source saying otherwise - please post. Some 'guys' someone spoke to who knows someone who sweeps up outside Kamra is not a source worth listening to or posting. Full aircrafts of this type destroyed is not something that can be hidden / lied about. Full stop.


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## dexter




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## Jango

TAC said:


> Speaking after he was briefed by senior PAF officials, Qamar said the aircraft was hit either by bullets or fragments of a rocket-propelled grenade fired by the terrorists.



This statement is really absurd. Any two taka can identify a bullet hole and shrapnel.


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## Safriz

TAC said:


> They do not make sense to you because they are the usual Pakistani sensationalist rumour mill in overdrive. See my previous post for what an official source says - and PAF has said all along -- 1 aircraft damaged -- now confirmed as will be repaired in Pakistan. If someone has an official source saying otherwise - please post. Some 'guys' someone spoke to who knows someone who sweeps up outside Kamra is not a source worth listening to or posting. Full aircrafts of this type destroyed is not something that can be hidden / lied about. Full stop.



Myself being a guy from 1970s knows how good we Pakistanis are at believing and then exaggerating just about any rumors....
Those who remember "Hathoraa Group" will know what i mean

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## Mani2020

*Dawn news reports*

KAMRA, Aug 16: The only terrorist who died outside the boundary of the PAF base here on Thursday killed himself to evade arrest after police surrounded the mound where he was holed up in order to attack the sentry post. He attacked with an AK-47 rifle but the two personnel at the post remained safe.

*The attacker had crept onto the mound in front of the post about 100 metres from there when his accomplices were busy cutting wires to provide cover*, but security personnel alerted before he could select the targets and he had to remain in a natural trench on top of the mound for four hours before he was surrounded by police.

&#8220;I think he was wounded either in firing by the sentry post or by police reinforcements,&#8221; an official said.

*Taking advantage of darkness, the man took position at the mound while a group of attackers used a four-foot ladder to make an opening in the three-foot barbed wires and jumped into the premises.
*
After the security operation successfully ended in late afternoon, *a group of villagers sitting tense under trees in a village graveyard said the spot to cut wires had been carefully selected because it was between two sentry posts and the visibility there was poorest due to dim light.*

But the villagers were cautious enough to clarify their own position.

*&#8220;These were not local people and we have never been involved in any wrongdoing,&#8221; Abdul Moid of Kamra Chota village said.

&#8220;We have always cooperated with the authorities and if anything wrong is seen we inform police or the FIU.&#8221;*

Another resident whose house is located not far from the boundary wall said:* &#8220;We have always considered them (PAF) as brothers and defenders of the nation. Now the terrorists scaled the wall just opposite my house. This is really depressing for us.&#8221;
*
Kamra Chota, located at the rear of the base and near the villages of Suleman Makhan and Kamra Bara, is the least developed among the three and the land there is less fertile.

Though poor, the people of the village were peace-loving, cooperative and decent, local police and intelligence personnel told this reporter.

As the operation continued to subdue the infiltrators, a group of federal security personnel went about in the village to map the area and the mound where the attacker was holed up.

*Looking at the marks the security personal said that the attack was not an action in isolation and it was clear that facilitators were present somewhere around.*

Most security analysts and experts speaking on the electronic media acknowledged an intelligence failure and also blamed the local authorities, especially Punjab police, for not keeping an eye on adjoining localities.

The area falls in the jurisdiction of the Karma police post under the Attock Saddar police station. The post has a huge area to cover, including a new Sanjwal Road that leads to Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) and has link towards the Karma base.

But, headed by a sub-inspector, the post has only nine personnel and one van to contain crime, handle local disputes and maintain round the clock vigil.

&#8220;It is always easy and customary to blame police for everything,&#8221; a policeman deputed at the post said.

&#8220;Everybody is talking about an intelligence tip about an attack on Kamra, but even the fuel allocation for the Elite Force has been cut and they have reduced patrolling during nights.&#8221;

Local people acknowledged that there were supporters of terrorism, including Taliban, in nearby villages.

*&#8220;We are all against the Taliban and have ideological differences with them,&#8221; Mohammad Rizwan of Kamra Chota said. &#8220;However, there are issues in Kamra Bara and there are also many outsiders like imams of mosques.&#8221;*

Since there is only one way to Kamra Chota through Suleman Makhan and Kamra Bara and the attackers were not inside the former village they must have come from outside. One can easily guess that the attackers used a vehicle to go to the village graveyard and moved to positions.

*&#8220;It is unrealistic to imagine that a group of people would be walking with loads like shoulder-launched rockets, ladder, guns and explosive material on the streets on the Shabeena when almost everybody is awake,&#8221; a security official said.
*
*In Kamra Bara, one sees a couple of mosques and seminaries with flags of the banned Sipah-i-Sahaba Pakistan hoisted on them and locals say there is a breed of new clerics in the village who do not respect traditional norms.*

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## Safriz

Mani2020 said:


> *Dawn news reports*
> 
> KAMRA, Aug 16: The only terrorist who died outside the boundary of the PAF base here on Thursday killed himself to evade arrest after police surrounded the mound where he was holed up in order to attack the sentry post. He attacked with an AK-47 rifle but the two personnel at the post remained safe.
> 
> *The attacker had crept onto the mound in front of the post about 100 metres from there when his accomplices were busy cutting wires to provide cover*, but security personnel alerted before he could select the targets and he had to remain in a natural trench on top of the mound for four hours before he was surrounded by police.
> 
> &#8220;I think he was wounded either in firing by the sentry post or by police reinforcements,&#8221; an official said.
> 
> *Taking advantage of darkness, the man took position at the mound while a group of attackers used a four-foot ladder to make an opening in the three-foot barbed wires and jumped into the premises.
> *
> After the security operation successfully ended in late afternoon, *a group of villagers sitting tense under trees in a village graveyard said the spot to cut wires had been carefully selected because it was between two sentry posts and the visibility there was poorest due to dim light.*
> 
> But the villagers were cautious enough to clarify their own position.
> 
> *&#8220;These were not local people and we have never been involved in any wrongdoing,&#8221; Abdul Moid of Kamra Chota village said.
> 
> &#8220;We have always cooperated with the authorities and if anything wrong is seen we inform police or the FIU.&#8221;*
> 
> Another resident whose house is located not far from the boundary wall said:* &#8220;We have always considered them (PAF) as brothers and defenders of the nation. Now the terrorists scaled the wall just opposite my house. This is really depressing for us.&#8221;
> *
> Kamra Chota, located at the rear of the base and near the villages of Suleman Makhan and Kamra Bara, is the least developed among the three and the land there is less fertile.
> 
> Though poor, the people of the village were peace-loving, cooperative and decent, local police and intelligence personnel told this reporter.
> 
> As the operation continued to subdue the infiltrators, a group of federal security personnel went about in the village to map the area and the mound where the attacker was holed up.
> 
> *Looking at the marks the security personal said that the attack was not an action in isolation and it was clear that facilitators were present somewhere around.*
> 
> Most security analysts and experts speaking on the electronic media acknowledged an intelligence failure and also blamed the local authorities, especially Punjab police, for not keeping an eye on adjoining localities.
> 
> The area falls in the jurisdiction of the Karma police post under the Attock Saddar police station. The post has a huge area to cover, including a new Sanjwal Road that leads to Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) and has link towards the Karma base.
> 
> But, headed by a sub-inspector, the post has only nine personnel and one van to contain crime, handle local disputes and maintain round the clock vigil.
> 
> &#8220;It is always easy and customary to blame police for everything,&#8221; a policeman deputed at the post said.
> 
> &#8220;Everybody is talking about an intelligence tip about an attack on Kamra, but even the fuel allocation for the Elite Force has been cut and they have reduced patrolling during nights.&#8221;
> 
> Local people acknowledged that there were supporters of terrorism, including Taliban, in nearby villages.
> 
> *&#8220;We are all against the Taliban and have ideological differences with them,&#8221; Mohammad Rizwan of Kamra Chota said. &#8220;However, there are issues in Kamra Bara and there are also many outsiders like imams of mosques.&#8221;*
> 
> Since there is only one way to Kamra Chota through Suleman Makhan and Kamra Bara and the attackers were not inside the former village they must have come from outside. One can easily guess that the attackers used a vehicle to go to the village graveyard and moved to positions.
> 
> *&#8220;It is unrealistic to imagine that a group of people would be walking with loads like shoulder-launched rockets, ladder, guns and explosive material on the streets on the Shabeena when almost everybody is awake,&#8221; a security official said.
> *
> *In Kamra Bara, one sees a couple of mosques and seminaries with flags of the banned Sipah-i-Sahaba Pakistan hoisted on them and locals say there is a breed of new clerics in the village who do not respect traditional norms.*



It looks like an IRA style operation...
The attackers must have been active in the area for some time,dumping ammunition and equipment in a trench or covered place near the boundary wall..probably in a desolated spot in the graveyard they have been dumping equipment and ammo over extended period of time...

Once again my suspicion is on the thousands of Afghan refugees in the area who freely move about in the area and have no recorded Identity anywhere...



> Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt visited the Minhas airbase on Friday and was briefed about the sequence of operations against the militants.
> 
> Base Commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam, who was injured during this operation, also accompanied him during the visit.
> 
> Addressing a joint gathering of the base personnel and army troops deployed at the base, the air chief said: &#8220;We must understand and realise that we are in a state of war, that too against a hidden enemy. These cowardly attacks cannot weaken our resolve to defend our motherland.&#8221;
> 
> The air chief attended the funeral parade of Sepoy Muhammad Iqbal. He also visited the PAF Hospital Kamra to enquire about the health of three security officials who received injuries from the detonation of suicide jacket during the operation. All three were discharged Friday evening, a press release said.
> 
> Nine heavily-armed militants dressed in military fatigues and armed with rocket-propelled grenades and suicide vests stormed the PAF base on Thursday, sparking heavy clashes that killed one security official and nine attackers at the base, which is a vital installation located in Kamra, outside Attock.



Kamra infiltrators: 4 Minhas base attackers identified, says Malik &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## Mani2020

Safriz said:


> It looks like an IRA style operation...
> The attackers must have been active in the area for some time,dumping ammunition and equipment in a trench or covered place near the boundary wall..probably in a desolated spot in the graveyard they have been dumping equipment and ammo over extended period of time...
> 
> Once again my suspicion is on the thousands of Afghan refugees in the area who freely move about in the area and have no recorded Identity anywhere...



In that case our favor and the sense of brotherhood for the suffering afghani refugees is paying us back big time in a horrible manner, what we did was to provide them shelter by opening boarders and let millions of refugees come and settle in but it might was one of the biggest mistake in our history .... They are in millions with no identification. I agree that there are many innocents who are earning their living through so much hard work but you cant deny the extremist factors ...and the fact that many afghanis still blame us and call us in a bad manner on the other side of the border


*@topic*
This shows that atleast one erieye is safe

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## SamantK

Mani2020 said:


> *@topic*
> This shows that atleast one erieye is safe



I believe they said the nose was damaged, here we see the mid fuselage.. I do not know how you arrived at that conclusion.


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## Mani2020

samantk said:


> I believe they said the nose was damaged, here we see the mid fuselage.. I do not know how you arrived at that conclusion.



It proves that if it is the case then its only the nose thus most probably repairable and the planar array and fuselage is safe ...

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## SamantK

Mani2020 said:


> It proves that if it is the case then its only the nose thus most probably repairable and the planar array and fuselage is safe ...



I think it would be best to wait for the official statement on this.


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## Imran Khan

Mani2020 said:


> In that case our favor and the sense of brotherhood for the suffering afghani refugees is paying us back big time in a horrible manner, what we did was to provide them shelter by opening boarders and let millions of refugees come and settle in but it might was one of the biggest mistake in our history .... They are in millions with no identification. I agree that there are many innocents who are earning their living through so much hard work but you cant deny the extremist factors ...and the fact that many afghanis still blame us and call us in a bad manner on the other side of the border
> 
> 
> *@topic*
> This shows that atleast one erieye is safe




lo a gya saab


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## Emmie

samantk said:


> I think it would be best to wait for the official statement on this.



This is exactly what many have been saying ever since the start of this thread but unfortunately a rumor is following another rumor, people simply are not ready to wait for an official statement.

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## TAC

nuclearpak said:


> This statement is really absurd. Any two taka can identify a bullet hole and shrapnel.



Maybe it is. He was briefed - perhaps he was told that damage was from shrapnell and/or bullits. Regardless that is not the issue here -- the point here is -- 1 aircraft damaged -- to be repaired in Pakistan--not 2 'destroyed' and 1 damaged as has been portrayed by some -- based entirely on rumour mill and no named source. We have even had people posting pics from the Mehran attack as 'proof'. At best this is people jumping on the sensationalisation bandwagon without facts at worst it is people deliberatley misleading -- both should be condemned.



samantk said:


> I think it would be best to wait for the official statement on this.



I have posted a report quoting the defence minister of Pakistan giving details of the damage to one aircraft only- saying repair to be done in Pakistan - Aircraft then to be sent to Sweden for check up. If Defence Minister who was briefed by PAF high ups is not official -- not sure what will qualify.

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## Safriz

meanwhile India is trying to catch up with Pakistan with a delivery of PESA based AWACS

China, Pakistan Threat Perception Forces India To Accelerate AWACS Program : Defense news


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## XYON

I think it was pretty stupid on part of the Minhas Base Commander to come out with his sub-ordinates with guns blazing in this incident. Can you imagine the international and national impact and reaction had things would have gone wrong and TTP would have claimed to not only destroyed the Erieye but also shot & killed the Minhas Base Commander in its action? I do not subscribe to the Base Commanders action and do not think it was bravery rather sheer stupidity!! Besides, if the Base Commander himself has to come out with guns blazing, that is NOT preparedness but is sheer lack of it!

It was the month of Ramazan that saved a lot of people and the assets at Minhas. Unfortunately the TTP thugs did not do their homework properly and forgot that most of the people are awake for longer hours for the purpose of sehri. 

Injured or not, bravery or stupidity whatever the reason, the Base Commander along with his cohorts should be COURT MARTIALED under the military law for negligence and destruction of Government property!

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## Raja.Pakistani

clmeta said:


> 3. No act of terror anywhere has been done by Pakistanis.
> 4. Every act of terror in Pakistan has been done by India.



well this apply to Indians more than Pakistani as they blame ISI for all terrorism in india but think that their Raw is getting pay for doing nothing and cannot involve in funding terrorism in Pakistan

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## Roybot

Air base attackers trained in Waziristan | DAWN.COM

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## MastanKhan

XYON said:


> I think it was pretty stupid on part of the Minhas Base Commander to come out with his sub-ordinates with guns blazing in this incident. Can you imagine the international and national impact and reaction had things would have gone wrong and TTP would have claimed to not only destroyed the Erieye but also shot & killed the Minhas Base Commander in its action? I do not subscribe to the Base Commanders action and do not think it was bravery rather sheer stupidity!! Besides, if the Base Commander himself has to come out with guns blazing, that is NOT preparedness but is sheer lack of it!
> 
> It was the month of Ramazan that saved a lot of people and the assets at Minhas. Unfortunately the TTP thugs did not do their homework properly and forgot that most of the people are awake for longer hours for the purpose of sehri.
> 
> Injured or not, bravery or stupidity whatever the reason, the Base Commander along with his cohorts should be COURT MARTIALED under the military law for negligence and destruction of Government property!



Hi,

Good man---good post---. Good analysis---I think and I firmly believe that pak millitary really lacks in leadership management during crisis---. I know for a fact that they are extremely thick headed and not open to fresher ideas.

But that aside---what happened to the dog patrols---does pak millitarty not have dog patrols around sensitive installations any more---.

I remember in the late 60's when I use to travel with my dad from quetta to chaman on the train----their was a massive ammunition depot on the right side of the track in the mountains---I would see soldiers with dog patrol.

What is happening in pakistan makes me believe in what I have been thinking that during this crisis that has the pakistan millitary officers mental capabilities really taken a turn for the worst---at every chance and at every oppurtunity during this wot---they have taken position one worst than the other----you can only brag about your honor loyalty and steadfastness for so long----. 

Bottomline is that you have to learn to use your brains---pak millitary needs to change its mindset---it needs to have better trained NCO----NCO's that can take charge of the situation and lead from the front---just like in the u s millitary----.

Your mistakes of the past come to haunt you---pak millitary needs to have a better situational awareness and better tactics to face problems----it also needs a better spokes person---actually a better tactical spokesperson in the world media forum.

Plus the general don't need to make any statements about starting a strike after eid----.

Now let me ask in all seriousness----what the fcuk is wrong with pak millitary----why can't they start a millitary action without telling it to the public and the terrorists---why does pak millitary need to make a fool of itself in front of the world all the time----if they want to start a war against the miscreants---then why wait for after the eid---a war is war---you strike hard---you strike hard at a point and time of your chosing----over here neither there is a time of their chosing nor a point----the trrorists know that they are coming the world knows that they are coming---the terrorists have struck first---the terrorists have struck first blood.

This is not a world class millitary----it is not even when it comes to fight against india---other than that it has proven to be horrible---absolutely pathetic in performance---. Its security openly challenged---its generals openly assasinated for not following security directives---case in point----the doctor general----its millitary headquarters taken under siege---its special services group base lunch room under terrorist attack---its media---the pakistani media working against the pakistani millitary in pakistan---pak millitary can't even control that in pakistan---pak media acting as a spokesperson and display screen for the terrorists---and this fools army has its head stuck between its legs----it is utterly dismaying.

This millitary is so bad and so pathetic that it can't even justify to the public the good that it has done---here is how bad pak millitary is as compared to the u s millitary----. In the u s millitary where a 3 stripes seargent or a 2nd Lt can make a public statement in front of the media and TV---in pakistan---we need a one star---a two star general to do that.

Pak millitary needs some serious help---right now---its biggest enemy its own self.

The biggest and the stupidest things that the pak millitary does---it is not in times of war---it is times of peace---it is during the 23rd march parade---and you know what it is---when the general observing the march stands in the jeep----which is moving---but there are no bars in front to hold your position in case you have a mishap----.

Pak millitary has the mentality that it shows machismo by doing that---only if they knew they just a step away from disaster and a world class embarrassment on the world tv media for pakistan---what a bunch of-----.

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## ANG

Hi, according to this article the front end of a Saab 2000 AWACs was damaged. Can someone kindly please verify the reliability of this article? I hope this is not true, as the PAF cannot afford to loose a AWACs. Thanks!


Analysis: The bigger questions surrounding Kamra  The Express Tribune

_"Whatever secondary objectives the attackers might have planned to achieve with the attack on Kamra, their primary target was the Saab 2000 aircraft fitted with the Erieye AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning and Control) system.

This time, it was an attack on the Pakistan Air Forces eyes.

The Saabs nose cone has been damaged and the aircraft will go to Sweden for repairs. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had pined for an early warning system for long. The platform is crucial for a number of reasons and can be used to counter many potential and emerging threats."_

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## IceCold

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Good man---good post---. Good analysis---I think and I firmly believe that pak millitary really lacks in leadership management during crisis---. I know for a fact that they are extremely thick headed and not open to fresher ideas.
> 
> But that aside---what happened to the dog patrols---does pak millitarty not have dog patrols around sensitive installations any more---.
> 
> I remember in the late 60's when I use to travel with my dad from quetta to chaman on the train----their was a massive ammunition depot on the right side of the track in the mountains---I would see soldiers with dog patrol.---.



It is not the fault of the military alone. There is simply no leadership right now in the country and whole of Pakistan is in chaos. When you don't have a leadership, you simply cannot expect state institutions to function properly even the military. 
Military has its legs stretched too thin and there is no clear policy or road map defined by these morons we have as our leaders as a way out from this menace. Every time something happens in Pakistan, military is called. All other institutions have failed. We need to address these issues foremost before we start guns blazing towards military for incompetence.


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## PäkPõwér

I just read the thread from the first post and I have to say, media is one hell of an unreliable source, especially *during* a crisis; _Har koi apni der eent ki masjid bna kr betha hota hai_

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## graphican

What is your logic of putting a "Thumbs Up" icon before this post?

It was reported that SAB2000 remained safe and if it would "Fly to Sweden" that means it is in 95% healthy condition. Thanks Allah it saved one of the vital asserts of Pakistan.

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## IceCold

PäkPõwér;3324466 said:


> I just read the thread from the first post and I have to say, media is one hell of a unreliable source, especially *during* a crisis; _Har koi apni der eent ki masjid bna kr betha hota hai_



Our media is a fcking loose cannon that should be contained under special law. Fcuk the freedom of speech nonsense. This is only for nations who are educated enough to understand the difference between corruption and treachery. There is a very fine line between the two which sadly we don't see it anymore.

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## ANG

graphican said:


> What is your logic of putting a "Thumbs Up" icon before this post?
> 
> It was reported that SAB2000 remained safe and if it would "Fly to Sweden" that means it is in 95% healthy condition. Thanks Allah it saved one of the vital asserts of Pakistan.



Hi, I did not mean to put the thumbs up, as I do not know how it even showed up. How can I remove it? I tried to, but could not. I simply opened up a post, that is all. Now, I feel really bad.


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## Yogi

ANG said:


> Hi, I did not mean to put the thumbs up, as I do not know how it even showed up. How can I remove it? I tried to, but could not. I simply opened up a post, that is all. Now, I feel really bad.


 
Click on the ''Edit'' button at the end of the 1st post n look just below the box where u write the text there u can change it...

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## hunter_hunted

Well there is no doubt that some country don't want these awacs to be in Pakistan's hand. Allah knows better what's going on behind the scenes.

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## Hindustani

*Air base attackers trained in Waziristan*​


ISLAMABAD: Interior Minister Rehman Malik claimed on Friday that because of an advance warning about a possible attack on PAF installations terrorists attempt to harm Kamra assets on Thursday was foiled and all the attackers were killed.

Addressing a press conference, Mr Malik said four of the assailants had been identified. They had received training in Waziristan and the raid, he said, could be traced back to North and South Waziristan.

He said the Taliban were harbouring criminals from all over the country and stressed the need for finding out the mastermind who had sent terrorists to Kamra.

Mr Malik praised the Commander of Karma airbase who led the operation to safeguard the facility and was injured while fighting the attackers.

Answering a question, he said no decision had yet been taken about launching an operation in North Waziristan, adding that such a decision would not be taken under foreign pressure.

Rejecting western media reports, he said the defence of the country and its nuclear assets were in safe hands. When we can develop nuclear assets we also know how to protect them.

About the Babusar Top attack, he said the terrorists had killed innocent people. He appealed to the people of Gilgit-Baltistan to demonstrate patience and foil attempts to destabilise the country.

He said the government would soon announce a compensation package for families whose loved ones were killed in the sectarian attack.

Mr Malik said an amount of Rs100 million had been allocated to ensure safety on Sharah-i-Karakoram.

He said there was no US national on the premises of Police Lines Headquarters in Islamabad, but conceded that some foreign trainers, including from Australia, were there fro training police personnel.

The interior minister said law-enforcement agencies and police department had been directed to maintain security on Eid.
Yaqoob Malik adds from Attock: Ten suspects were picked up during a search in various areas around the Kamra cantonment on Friday and they are being interrogated.

A large number of Afghan refugees have been living in different parts of Kamra district for years and there is no record about them with the authorities concerned.

Meanwhile, a team has been set up to investigate the incident and identify the militants.

The post-mortem on the militants bodies was conducted late on Thursday night at the mortuary of DHQ hospital under the supervision of Dr Khalid Mehmood Khan amid tight security. During the autopsy, law-enforcement personnel collected fingerprints which would be sent to the National Database and Registration Authority to establish the identities of the attackers.

Meanwhile, a security man who was injured during the fighting with the attackers died on Friday. PAF spokesman Group Captain Tariq Mahmood said that Mohammad Iqbals funeral prayers were held at the PAF base in Minhas.

Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt visited the base on Friday.


âAir base attackers trained in Waziristanâ | DAWN.COM


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## TAC

XYON said:


> I think it was pretty stupid on part of the Minhas Base Commander to come out with his sub-ordinates with guns blazing in this incident. Can you imagine the international and national impact and reaction had things would have gone wrong and TTP would have claimed to not only destroyed the Erieye but also shot & killed the Minhas Base Commander in its action? I do not subscribe to the Base Commanders action and do not think it was bravery rather sheer stupidity!! Besides, if the Base Commander himself has to come out with guns blazing, that is NOT preparedness but is sheer lack of it!
> 
> It was the month of Ramazan that saved a lot of people and the assets at Minhas. *Unfortunately the TTP thugs did not do their homework properly *and forgot that most of the people are awake for longer hours for the purpose of sehri.
> 
> Injured or not, bravery or stupidity whatever the reason, the Base Commander along with his cohorts should be COURT MARTIALED under the military law for negligence and destruction of Government property!



You are saying 'Unfortunately the TTP thugs did not do their homework properly'!!?? Were you hoping they would cause more death and destruction!!?? As for the base commander - he can't win - if he had stayed in the control room pakistanis would call him a coward - if he leads from the front - pakistanis will call him stupid. Don't understand what your logic is for court marshall. Negligence?? They stopped the terrorists with minimum damage.

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## danger007

An idiot is enough to bring shame and blame in a family, like wise ....few hundred people enough to spoil a country name.... Pakistan do have large number of terrorists and Idiots, who makes pakistan as boogy man infront of world.... well every one talking about Indians treating and hating pakistani's.... not every Indian treat pakistan as enemy state... 

how you people coming to conclude that Indians hate pakistan... just because of few people giving statements in media against pakistan right... same applies for us... when we see our brothers and sisters got killed by some terrorists who came from pakistan... it creates bad image of pakistan in our minds.... that means few terrorists enough to spoil pakistan name..... you do know the mindset of humans...


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## airmarshal

It was success on part of military that there was negligible damge. It was failure on thier overall to not able to stop such attacks from materializing. 

The difference between response to Mehran and Kamra is very stark. This time, the attackers were not allowed to enter the premises. 

Overall, the terror of TTP is on the wane. This is not optimistic statement but realistic. Compare today's Pakistan with the 2008-09 chaos ravaged by TTP. They only have a small part of NWA to plan and execute operations but that will soon be taken away. But as their space in the country is shrinking, their support from across the border is still there. 

I compare TTP with FSA. Both non-state actors supported by the gang of rich nations and regional wannabes. This is a successful model to bring chaos from within. After all, its locals against compatriot's throat achieving a strategic objective for someone. With a few million dollars in aid and cheap arms available everywhere, these militias can be turned into a potent force.


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## Irfan Baloch

*All members*
please avoid quoting a troll
and avoid continuing to discuss the troll once he has been banned and then resort to usual personal fight that has nothing to do with the thread. 

dont post anything that has nothing to do with the thread directly. I deleted over 70 posts without giving infractions although a good number of them were breaking rules. next time infractions might follow. so please avoid that


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## Thor

All these recent attacks after Kamra base re nothing more then an (unfortunately successful) attempt to move the headlines from that attack to other more pressing fresh attacks.......... 

I seriously think that the 2013 elections are now too far away for any changes to come. People like Imran Khan and Difa e Pakistan need to come out now for a revolution change. This has never been a choice by the leaders in fear that outside forces, like India will take full advantage of the situation and arm people to begin a full on civil war, but now the situation is very clear and with the recent attacks pinpointing at specific targets, leaders need to get the ball rolling and get the youth onto the streets and force a change in the leadership

Soon the US will pass into Law the Haqqani network a terrorist organisation. By Law, they then have the unilateral right to attack them by entering Pakistani soil. With AWACS out of the way, Pakistan has lost any, if at all the ability to detect such incursions. On top of that, lets not forget the words of Mike Mullen that the ISI uses such networks as its extended arm. Those words and lack of action by Pakistan to challenge such words will haunt Pakistan severely in the coming few months. Coupled with the fact that the US has been using Iran as a roost to move its warships into the gulf further, what is it now, 5 carrier fleets.


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## Thor

XYON said:


> I think it was pretty stupid on part of the Minhas Base Commander to come out with his sub-ordinates with guns blazing in this incident. Can you imagine the international and national impact and reaction had things would have gone wrong and TTP would have claimed to not only destroyed the Erieye but also shot & killed the Minhas Base Commander in its action? I do not subscribe to the Base Commanders action and do not think it was bravery rather sheer stupidity!! Besides, if the Base Commander himself has to come out with guns blazing, that is NOT preparedness but is sheer lack of it!
> 
> It was the month of Ramazan that saved a lot of people and the assets at Minhas. Unfortunately the TTP thugs did not do their homework properly and forgot that most of the people are awake for longer hours for the purpose of sehri.
> 
> Injured or not, bravery or stupidity whatever the reason, the Base Commander along with his cohorts should be COURT MARTIALED under the military law for negligence and destruction of Government property!



Especially when you keep in mind that the Intelligence services had warned of such an atack, just did not know the target.

Having a military background myself, common sense would have said that Kamra is in a heavy urban area, easy access i.e. a bloody mound for a terrorist to hold up for 4 hours. You have the JF-17 assembly line, Chinese engineers within complex, AWACS present, you would hope that a similar set up like the British RAF regiment equivalent would have been alert, with spotters and dogs rotating sentry posts to stay alert. 

This was a failure in preparedness, and possibly the two lives would not have been lost have preparations been more adequate. Bravery is what stopped further damage here, if an when the Military gives the full account.


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## Icarus

XYON said:


> I think it was pretty stupid on part of the Minhas Base Commander to come out with his sub-ordinates with guns blazing in this incident. Can you imagine the international and national impact and reaction had things would have gone wrong and TTP would have claimed to not only destroyed the Erieye but also shot & killed the Minhas Base Commander in its action? I do not subscribe to the Base Commanders action and do not think it was bravery rather sheer stupidity!! Besides, if the Base Commander himself has to come out with guns blazing, that is NOT preparedness but is sheer lack of it!
> 
> It was the month of Ramazan that saved a lot of people and the assets at Minhas. Unfortunately the TTP thugs did not do their homework properly and forgot that most of the people are awake for longer hours for the purpose of sehri.
> 
> Injured or not, bravery or stupidity whatever the reason, the Base Commander along with his cohorts should be COURT MARTIALED under the military law for negligence and destruction of Government property!





I disagree completely, subordinates draw inspiration and courage from their senior officers. In the realm of the Armed Forces, your senior is your god, he says, you do but when he fights besides you, when he puts his own life and guts on the line and not just yours, that's when his subordinates perform the best. They see a role model and they seek to out do him, that's how the military has been able to secure success in all theatres in the WoT. I have seen both type of officers, those that fight in the thick of it and those that send their men in on their own instead and let me assure you that the former not only fight the best but are always prepared for more. We had 128 men come in from a 4 day long ambush in Bajaur in 2008, they rested for 4 hours and under the leadership of their commandant who had fought alongside them all along, they went back in and fought for another week. I do not subscribe to your ideas because I have seen the effectiveness of a fearless and dynamic leader in combat and such a leader will always be worthy of my respect.

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## clmeta

self delete


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## Jango

Mani2020 said:


> *@topic*
> This shows that atleast one erieye is safe



There were three. This is one!


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## karan.1970

Why no ISPR statement yet?

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## newdelhinsa

Icarus said:


> I disagree completely, subordinates draw inspiration and courage from their senior officers. In the realm of the Armed Forces, your senior is your god, he says, you do but when he fights besides you, when he puts his own life and guts on the line and not just yours, that's when his subordinates perform the best. They see a role model and they seek to out do him, that's how the military has been able to secure success in all theatres in the WoT. I have seen both type of officers, those that fight in the thick of it and those that send their men in on their own instead and let me assure you that the former not only fight the best but are always prepared for more. We had 128 men come in from a 4 day long ambush in Bajaur in 2008, they rested for 4 hours and under the leadership of their commandant who had fought alongside them all along, they went back in and fought for another week. I do not subscribe to your ideas because I have seen the effectiveness of a fearless and dynamic leader in combat and such a leader will always be worthy of my respect.



I agree, but air force officers are known to sacrifice their lives. The risk they take everyday makes them buy dangers without a thought and at ease putting their lives on line. Its like in their muscle memory. 

Good job by your forces, the scum bags seems like carrying ammunition to fight for few days and C4 worth demolishing 4-5 story building in one go.

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## Jango

*Here you go gents!*






E-paper :: Daily Express

First and second line.


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## Roybot

nuclearpak said:


> *Here you go gents!*
> 
> http://express.com.pk/images/NP_ISB/20120817/Sub_Images/1101597299-1.gif
> 
> [url=http://express.com.pk/epaper/]E-paper :: Daily Express[/url]
> 
> First and second line.[/QUOTE]
> 
> Translation please.

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## Jango

Roybot said:


> Translation please.



Too long to translate. In short, it says what I have been saying for the past 2-3 days, quoting the PAF spokesman.

1 aircraft destroyed, 2nd heavily damaged. Inspection will be done by Saab team on the structure and it's integrity. Then the final decision will be taken if it is deemed repair-worthy (unlikely)

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## illusion8

nuclearpak said:


> Too long to translate. In short, it says what I have been saying for the past 2-3 days, quoting the PAF spokesman.
> 
> 1 aircraft destroyed, 2nd heavily damaged. Inspection will be done by Saab team on the structure and it's integrity. Then the final decision will be taken if it is deemed repair-worthy (unlikely)



Regrettably seems you were spot on nuclearpak.


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## Peregrine

Thid daily express report is quoting that only one soldier martyred, whereas there are two. Still not buying it, will wait for more credible sources.


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## Sinnerman108

nuclearpak said:


> Too long to translate. In short, it says what I have been saying for the past 2-3 days, quoting the PAF spokesman.
> 
> 1 aircraft destroyed, 2nd heavily damaged. Inspection will be done by Saab team on the structure and it's integrity. Then the final decision will be taken if it is deemed repair-worthy (unlikely)



Lets wait for Nabil_05 && Santro to confirm.

Secondly statements within the article are self contradictory.


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## Peregrine

nuclearpak said:


> Too long to translate. In short, it says what I have been saying for the past 2-3 days, quoting the PAF spokesman.
> 
> 1 aircraft destroyed, 2nd heavily damaged. Inspection will be done by Saab team on the structure and it's integrity. Then the final decision will be taken if it is deemed repair-worthy (unlikely)


Please dont add your masala touch, nowhere it mentions that sweeds will be arrieving and the damaged one is beyond repair.

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## Jango

Peregrine said:


> Thid daily express report is quoting that only one soldier martyred, whereas there are two. Still not buying it, will wait for more credible sources.



O bhai, he quoted the PAF spokesman.

And till yesterday maghrib, it was one soldier martyred, second one was variously reported by media as different people. And PAF didn't release a statement about him either.

Chalo, jaisay aap ki marzi.


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## Roybot

nuclearpak said:


> Too long to translate. In short, it says what I have been saying for the past 2-3 days, quoting the PAF spokesman.
> 
> 1 aircraft destroyed, 2nd heavily damaged. Inspection will be done by Saab team on the structure and it's integrity. Then the final decision will be taken if it is deemed repair-worthy (unlikely)



Ouch, thats a big loss. They cost around $300 Million each!


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## Windjammer

*@ nuclearpak, not sure what you are out to prove, but your source published the following news just a couple of months earlier. I don't need to remind you how credible this turned out. They had the knack to publish this false story on the front page. !!*

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## Jango

Peregrine said:


> Please dont add your masala touch, nowhere it mentions that sweeds will be arrieving and the damaged one is beyond repair.



That is not masala touch. 

This is standard SOP everywhere, when an aircraft gets serious damage, the company of manufacture comes. When PIA aircraft get a landing gear damage, Boeing folks come, when the Shaheen air plane had landing gear and wing spar damage at Karachi, Boeing folks came from USA to inspect the damage. Even Airbus folks go to Emirates to check their aircraft if anything has happened.


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## Mani2020

Roybot said:


> Translation please.



It mentions that 1 saab-2000 erieye is totally destroyed along with one hangar while the second saab-2000 erieye is severely damaged

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## Jango

Windjammer said:


> *@ nuclearpak, not sure what you are out to prove, but your source published the following news just a couple of months earlier. I don't need to remind you how credible this turned out. They had the knack to publish this false story on the front page. !!*



Yup, that was wrong.

Chalo bhai, aap ki marzi. I am not out to prove anything. Just wanting you people to understand that do not regard this operation as a total success, and in a false sense of pride that nothing happened.

I am going to stay low now. Allah Hafiz.

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## Mani2020

Windjammer said:


> *@ nuclearpak, not sure what you are out to prove, but your source published the following news just a couple of months earlier. I don't need to remind you how credible this turned out. They had the knack to publish this false story on the front page. !!*



My concern is not what this news source had to say few months back neither i am buying your comments nor nuclearpaks

But my concern is obvious if only one aircraft damaged then why there is so much hustle in PAF ranks, why they are not willing to release the report even after 3 days, why statement from each official contradicts other's , these are official guys not sarak chap so why are they not able to get on one single point rather coming up with contradictions. If just 1 aircraft damaged that too slightly then they should be proudly saying that we have defended our assets rather then being at the back burners .

To the extent i know PAF my intuition is there is something seriously wrong. You can call me pessimist but i am happy with that because i know what over-optimism has given us . 

When PNS mehran attack happened we had many over-patriotic people defending the naval forces failure and saying military will come out more stronger after this attack and there will be no attacks in the future blah blah . But time and time again we have seen what we are upto .

Again i am repeating i am not believing on what any guy has to say may it be nuclearpak, or whoever but seriously i am sensing something really fishy. If ALLAH forbid it is true what the news mentions then 600 million dollars goes down the drain . For a cash strapped country who is even finding hard to fund its homer grown fighters costing a slightest of fractions per unit compared to erieye ,its a heck lot amount... and still if we dont see any action form military against the hands that were involved that i am done with this "i love my military" stuff .... it will be a big RIP

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## Peregrine

nuclearpak said:


> Yup, that was wrong.
> 
> Chalo bhai, aap ki marzi. I am not out to prove anything. Just wanting you people to understand that do not regard this operation as a total success, and in a fall sense of pride that nothing happened.
> 
> I am going to stay low now. Allah Hafiz.


No dude, you are entitled to express your views as much as any other member,but let's not get carried away with rumours, as official statements are still to be made and if you are going to present any off the record info, then do label it as 'unofficial' so that people don't get wrong ideas.  My apologies for sounding rude in my previous post.

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## Windjammer

nuclearpak said:


> There were three. This is one!



Why would they have all three at the same base or parked in one hangar. ??

Do the personal appear as if they have lost some valuable assets. ??

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## Jango

*Just to make it clear, it is not 'ana ka masla' or anything!*



Windjammer said:


> Why would they have all three at the same base or parked in one hangar. ??



That is what nobody knows at this moment. Why were three aircraft at same place at Kamra? This was the first time.

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## Bratva

Original Deal of 1 billion dollar included 5 Awacs and one Trainer but why is that revised order is still quoted 1 Billion dollar? Something fishy


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## TAC

nuclearpak said:


> *Here you go gents!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E-paper :: Daily Express
> 
> First and second line.



I don't buy this -- how come every other media outlet reported the PAF statement as 1 aircraft damaged. Media has so far reported C130, refueler, Saab as the damaged aircraft -- shown pics of the Mehran attack and even a pic from Chengdu passed off as Minhas - hardly reliable source to prove anything. You have seen what the Defence Minister said - which is as 'official' as a source can get . Also suggest you watch Shahid Lateef interview on the subject -- he is retired and was VCAS and Kamra base commander -- despite being in a position where he would not mind having a pop at the current set up-- he conngratulates the Base authorities for well prepared defence of the base resulting in minimum damage. You can be sure he will know a thing or two about what got damaged. 1 aircraft got slight damage which will be repaired in Pakistan -- all the rest is bullcrap. I repeat you CANNOT hide or lie about complete destruction of such assets.

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## Jango

First the official version was Il-78 damaged, then it changed to one 'electronic tayyara' damaged slightly. Then it was said Saab 2000 explicitly, then it was said that it was a nose damage. Then the Defence minister said nozzle damage (whatever that means), then PAF said moderate damage, then serious damage, then Air Marshals on TV confirmed rocket landed somehwere near the Saab. It is confirmed that a rocket did hit near the nose of the Saab, any body can figure out that if a RPG lands near the nose of the aircraft, it is totally ruined because the body is weak, and so is the structure. mani2020 summed it all up perfectly.

Allah Hafiz.


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## Bratva

TAC said:


> I don't buy this -- how come every other media outlet reported the PAF statement as 1 aircraft damaged. Media has so far reported C130, refueler, Saab as the damaged aircraft -- shown pics of the Mehran attack and even a pic from Chengdu passed off as Minhas - hardly reliable source to prove anything. You have seen what the Defence Minister said - which is as 'official' as a source can get . *Also suggest you watch Shahid Lateef interview on the subject -- he is retired and was VCAS and Kamra base commander -- despite being in a position where he would not mind having a pop at the current set up-- he conngratulates the Base authorities for well prepared defence of the base resulting in minimum damage*. You can be sure he will know a thing or two about what got damaged. 1 aircraft got slight damage which will be repaired in Pakistan -- all the rest is bullcrap. I repeat you CANNOT hide or lie about complete destruction of such assets.



Do you expect Shahid Latif to disclose truth on TV? And the Beloved PAF has changed it's statements multiple time now. PAF Spokesperson first said, no damage, than slight damage than Substantial damage to One asset he can not name. Even PAF is nervous about disclosing the damage they suffer

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## Imran Khan

wo tabaah kery na kery humary forum waly zaroor ker deen gay

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## Windjammer

Mani2020 said:


> My concern is not what this news source had to say few months back neither i am buying your comments nor nuclearpaks
> 
> But my concern is obvious if only one aircraft damaged then why there is so much hustle in PAF ranks, why they are not willing to release the report even after 3 days, why statement from each official contradicts other's , these are official guys not sarak chap so why are they not able to get on one single point rather coming up with contradictions. If just 1 aircraft damaged that too slightly then they should be proudly saying that we have defended our assets rather then being at the back burners .
> 
> To the extent i know PAF my intuition is there is something seriously wrong. You can call me pessimist but i am happy with that because i know what over-optimism has given us .
> 
> When PNS mehran attack happened we had many over-patriotic people defending the naval forces failure and saying military will come out more stronger after this attack and there will be no attacks in the future blah blah . But time and time again we have seen what we are upto .
> 
> Again i am repeating i am not believing on what any guy has to say may it be nuclearpak, or whoever but seriously i am sensing something really fishy. If ALLAH forbid it is true what the news mentions then 600 million dollars goes down the drain . For a cash strapped country who is even finding hard to fund its homer grown fighters costing a slightest of fractions per unit compared to erieye ,its a heck lot amount... and still if we dont see any action form military against the hands that were involved that i am done with this "i love my military" stuff .... it will be a big RIP



If you check the PAF website, even the Mirage crash which happened a day or two before the Kamra incident is not mentioned.
Firstly, during Ramazan, every one seems to knock off at around 1.00 PM, then you had the Independence day holiday, now the weekend and the Eid break. To be honest, i am not expecting a statement before Monday.
While we are going on about the SAAB, the TTP were claiming JF-17s, and all others pointing to some damage to an IL-76.


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## Manticore

Spreading misinformation is the main objective of paf at the moment --- dont be over zealous in finding and posting the truth on the forum , rather spread misinformation if you can -- This is exactly what nabil and santro would be doing aswell -- a cloud of uncertainty should prevail


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## Bratva

Windjammer said:


> If you check the PAF website, even the Mirage crash which happened a day or two before the Kamra incident is not mentioned.
> Firstly, during Ramazan, every one seems to knock off at around 1.00 PM, then you had the Independence day holiday, now the weekend and the Eid break. To be honest, i am not expecting a statement before Monday.
> While we are going on about the SAAB, the TTP were claiming JF-17s, and all others pointing to some damage to an IL-76.



Instead of Focusing mistakes of media, focus on what PAF official spokesperson said, RPG pierced the hangar where SAAB awacs was stationed. How many RPG's fired? no mention? Was it a fluke that ONE RPG pierced the hangar and damaged the Awacs? PAF contradicted itself to minor to substantial to Nose damage.



ANTIBODY said:


> Spreading misinformation is the main objective of paf at the moment --- dont be over zealous in finding and posting the truth on the forum , rather spread misinformation if you can -- This is exactly what nabil and santro would be doing aswell -- a cloud of uncertainty should prevail



Unfortunately in Pakistan case, uncertainty is spread not to confuse the enemy but to hide the damage we have suffered.


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## Dil Pakistan

Media reporting important arrests made in Lahore. Further breakthrough expected soon


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## TAC

Mani2020 said:


> My concern is not what this news source had to say few months back neither i am buying your comments nor nuclearpaks
> 
> But my concern is obvious if only one aircraft damaged then why there is so much hustle in PAF ranks, why they are not willing to release the report even after 3 days, why statement from each official contradicts other's , these are official guys not sarak chap so why are they not able to get on one single point rather coming up with contradictions. If just 1 aircraft damaged that too slightly then they should be proudly saying that we have defended our assets rather then being at the back burners .
> 
> To the extent i know PAF my intuition is there is something seriously wrong. You can call me pessimist but i am happy with that because i know what over-optimism has given us .
> 
> When PNS mehran attack happened we had many over-patriotic people defending the naval forces failure and saying military will come out more stronger after this attack and there will be no attacks in the future blah blah . But time and time again we have seen what we are upto .
> 
> Again i am repeating i am not believing on what any guy has to say may it be nuclearpak, or whoever but seriously i am sensing something really fishy. If ALLAH forbid it is true what the news mentions then 600 million dollars goes down the drain . For a cash strapped country who is even finding hard to fund its homer grown fighters costing a slightest of fractions per unit compared to erieye ,its a heck lot amount... and still if we dont see any action form military against the hands that were involved that i am done with this "i love my military" stuff .... it will be a big RIP



'hustle in PAF ranks' care to explain what this means?

Have you ever known a report of such an attack to be compiled and released within 3 days?

You have PAF statement saying 1 aircraft damaged and you have the Defence Minister saying the same with more detail of the damage / repair -- not sure what else people need. Also note that this debate about exact extent of damage is not going on anywhere other than forums - nobody in the media has questioned the official version - perhaps if they had PAF may have been forced to prove their version. I doubt PAF high ups spend time worring about individual views on forums.

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## iPhone

They say where there is smoke, there is fire. 

Something sinister probably happened to the Saab, hoping nothing, but over time it'll become clear.


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## TAC

mafiya said:


> Do you expect Shahid Latif to disclose truth on TV? And the Beloved PAF has changed it's statements multiple time now. PAF Spokesperson first said, no damage, than slight damage than Substantial damage to One asset he can not name. Even PAF is nervous about disclosing the damage they suffer



Errr .. yes I do expect Shahid Lateef to speak the truth -- He is a respected and retired officer with no axe to grind. While you say Paf has contradicted itself -- they have said 1 aircraft all along. 1 persons slight damage can be another persons substantial damage and both can be nose damage.

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## Safriz

ANTIBODY said:


> Spreading misinformation is the main objective of paf at the moment --- dont be over zealous in finding and posting the truth on the forum , rather spread misinformation if you can -- This is exactly what nabil and santro would be doing aswell -- a cloud of uncertainty should prevail



nabil was here few pages ago and he was adamant that awacs are safe and undamaged,


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## Bratva

TAC said:


> *Errr .. yes I do expect Shahid Lateef to speak the truth -*- He is a respected and retired officer with no axe to grind. While you say Paf has contradicted itself -- *they have said 1 aircraft all along. 1 persons slight damage can be another persons substantial damage and both can be nose damage.*



What do you expect and What PAF higher up expect their man should say on TV is two different



Safriz said:


> *nabil was here few pages ago and he was adamant that awacs are safe and undamaged*,



He is totally wrong this time and his source has fed him the false news this time.

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## Windjammer

mafiya said:


> Instead of Focusing mistakes of media, focus on what PAF official spokesperson said, RPG pierced the hangar where SAAB awacs was stationed. How many RPG's fired? no mention? Was it a fluke that ONE RPG pierced the hangar and damaged the Awacs? PAF contradicted itself to minor to substantial to Nose damage.



So now you are saying, PAF has made an official statement or you are just mentioning what media reported, quoting the PAF spokesman.


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## Bratva

Windjammer said:


> So now you are saying, PAF has made an official statement or you are just mentioning what media reported, quoting the PAF spokesman.



What PAF spokesman said was wrong?


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## BATMAN

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Good man---good post---. Good analysis---I think and I firmly believe that pak millitary really lacks in leadership management during crisis---. I know for a fact that they are extremely thick headed and not open to fresher ideas.
> 
> But that aside---what happened to the dog patrols---does pak millitarty not have dog patrols around sensitive installations any more---.
> 
> I remember in the late 60's when I use to travel with my dad from quetta to chaman on the train----their was a massive ammunition depot on the right side of the track in the mountains---I would see soldiers with dog patrol.
> 
> What is happening in pakistan makes me believe in what I have been thinking that during this crisis that has the pakistan millitary officers mental capabilities really taken a turn for the worst---at every chance and at every oppurtunity during this wot---they have taken position one worst than the other----you can only brag about your honor loyalty and steadfastness for so long----.
> 
> Bottomline is that you have to learn to use your brains---pak millitary needs to change its mindset---it needs to have better trained NCO----NCO's that can take charge of the situation and lead from the front---just like in the u s millitary----.
> 
> Your mistakes of the past come to haunt you---pak millitary needs to have a better situational awareness and better tactics to face problems----it also needs a better spokes person---actually a better tactical spokesperson in the world media forum.
> 
> Plus the general don't need to make any statements about starting a strike after eid----.
> 
> Now let me ask in all seriousness----what the fcuk is wrong with pak millitary----why can't they start a millitary action without telling it to the public and the terrorists---why does pak millitary need to make a fool of itself in front of the world all the time----if they want to start a war against the miscreants---then why wait for after the eid---a war is war---you strike hard---you strike hard at a point and time of your chosing----over here neither there is a time of their chosing nor a point----the trrorists know that they are coming the world knows that they are coming---the terrorists have struck first---the terrorists have struck first blood.
> 
> This is not a world class millitary----it is not even when it comes to fight against india---other than that it has proven to be horrible---absolutely pathetic in performance---. Its security openly challenged---its generals openly assasinated for not following security directives---case in point----the doctor general----its millitary headquarters taken under siege---its special services group base lunch room under terrorist attack---its media---the pakistani media working against the pakistani millitary in pakistan---pak millitary can't even control that in pakistan---pak media acting as a spokesperson and display screen for the terrorists---and this fools army has its head stuck between its legs----it is utterly dismaying.
> 
> This millitary is so bad and so pathetic that it can't even justify to the public the good that it has done---here is how bad pak millitary is as compared to the u s millitary----. In the u s millitary where a 3 stripes seargent or a 2nd Lt can make a public statement in front of the media and TV---in pakistan---we need a one star---a two star general to do that.
> 
> Pak millitary needs some serious help---right now---its biggest enemy its own self.
> 
> The biggest and the stupidest things that the pak millitary does---it is not in times of war---it is times of peace---it is during the 23rd march parade---and you know what it is---when the general observing the march stands in the jeep----which is moving---but there are no bars in front to hold your position in case you have a mishap----.
> 
> Pak millitary has the mentality that it shows machismo by doing that---only if they knew they just a step away from disaster and a world class embarrassment on the world tv media for pakistan---what a bunch of-----.


 
I almost, fully agree with MK here.

Pak army cannot every time come and cry that it is waiting for orders!
You will never get orders from present breed of politicians and co-operation from dollar fed bureaucracy.
Every politician and bureaucrat have already moved his family abroad, they have nothing to loose in Pakistan, it include, family of CJ.
They are in Pakistan, only to earn dollars, which they will spend in some night club of UK with Indian models.

MK, Kamara was my night mare since 2006, and i doubt if Pakistan security officials shared same fears!

Pakistan army chief tells us its war of nation, but nation is toothless! instead, looking at him as sole savior!

Still if he need support, most of us can only help with advise! Is he willing to listen any advice?
If yes than, I beg him to contact design engineers for building up an early warning security perimeter.
I beg him to do what ever... what ever is necessary to get to the traitors, make a horrible example out of them.. 

Coming back to the subjet;
Have you realized every thing was lying bare naked across the only obstruction, described as 9 ft wall + 3 feet barbed fence.
I tell you, it is not insider Islamist who are helping.... it is insider seculars, who are helping those militants...
Now some one, give me some caption for this moment:






It was not possible for terrorists to achieve success, without co-ordination of various factors, and assurances.
There are simply too many and too basic negligence of base commander, and even higher ups who thought one wall is good enough to guard multi billion dollar facility from rockets.

Now very soon you will see SAMs in this theater, and I'm afraid, current breed of higher-ups will still be singing 'Dilli hanooz dooooor ast'.

There is simply no co-ordination among the intelligence agencies and the bases commanders.

Like it or not.. fact is there was no security on the eve and no one saw militants approaching the wall with logistics.
They even crossed the wall, and than one!!!!!!! only one! guard...... how come you depute guards in single?

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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> I disagree completely, subordinates draw inspiration and courage from their senior officers. In the realm of the Armed Forces, your senior is your god, he says, you do but when he fights besides you, when he puts his own life and guts on the line and not just yours, that's when his subordinates perform the best. They see a role model and they seek to out do him, that's how the military has been able to secure success in all theatres in the WoT. I have seen both type of officers, those that fight in the thick of it and those that send their men in on their own instead and let me assure you that the former not only fight the best but are always prepared for more. We had 128 men come in from a 4 day long ambush in Bajaur in 2008, they rested for 4 hours and under the leadership of their commandant who had fought alongside them all along, they went back in and fought for another week. I do not subscribe to your ideas because I have seen the effectiveness of a fearless and dynamic leader in combat and such a leader will always be worthy of my respect.



I fully agree with you.. XYON's post defies everything about leading from front.. And if there was any place where leading from the front is a must, its in armed forces.. A man can at most go to 100% by his own will.. After that every ounce of additional effort (which generally makes a difference between a win and a loss) comes either out of respect for your commander or camaraderie with your fellows...

I dont know if I said this before in this thread or not, but Respect for the Base commander.. This is stuff legends are made of...



Mani2020 said:


> It mentions that 1 saab-2000 erieye is totally destroyed along with one hangar while the second saab-2000 erieye is severely damaged



This kind of ties in with the initial claims of TTP spokesperson who said that they had hit 3 planes (though I think they mentioned JF 17s)


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## Safriz

Mobile phones found with dead terrorists....


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## TAC

mafiya said:


> What do you expect and What PAF higher up expect their man should say on TV is two different



'There man' He is retired!! And has been very critical of PAF in many interviews - go watch.


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## Peregrine

Rumour has it that a JF-17 has been damaged too.


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## Safriz

Peregrine said:


> Rumour has it that a JF-17 has been damaged too.



there are too many rumors flying around..mainly coming from civilians working in Kamra and the colonies around the airbase...
Everybody claiming that they heard this from some insider


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## Nishan_101

nuclearpak said:


> Yup, that was wrong.
> 
> Chalo bhai, aap ki marzi. I am not out to prove anything. Just wanting you people to understand that do not regard this operation as a total success, and in a false sense of pride that nothing happened.
> 
> I am going to stay low now. Allah Hafiz.


 
Can you really tell us what has been damaged yet??? 

Man It would be great if we had 7 Saab-2000 AEW&Cs along with 5 more for training and transport purposes(1 would be enough for training). Then go for 5-7 ZDK-03, they should have given them to 7 different air bases.


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## mixsms

hunter_hunted said:


> Well there is no doubt that some country don't want these awacs to be in Pakistan's hand. Allah knows better what's going on behind the scenes.


I totally agree with your view. Another thing I just found about our Media who never have spoken against India / US openly. I don't know why but everyone know ground facts.


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## TAC

mafiya said:


> What do you expect and What PAF higher up expect their man should say on TV is two different



'There man' He is retired!! And has been very critical of PAF in many interviews - go watch.


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## karan.1970

ThePunisher said:


> i really admire guts of these mujahidins ... attacking a big military base ... stationing hundred or may be thousands of well trained and very well armed security forces ... i wonder how they knew where they could have gotten locations of SAAB2000 ... google earth ... ???



Terrorists are not supposed to be admired...

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## Peregrine

Safriz said:


> there are too many rumors flying around..mainly coming from civilians working in Kamra and the colonies around the airbase...
> Everybody claiming that they heard this from some insider


Nope I dont know any airforce officials only Army one's......... and they are also out of the loop like us. Would you believe that not even 10 & 11 corps officials could confirm anything.


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## Farah Sohail

I think in 1-2 days, ppl will start claiming tht half of the aircrafts and PAF assets in the base have been damaged in this attack...

I have been following this thread and some ppl, especially *nuclearpak* is desperate to prove maximum damage has been done to PAF, in this attack.. Dont know, what is their motive..One advice to nuclearpak...everyone now knows your version, and nobody is buying it, so it would be better if you just stay quiet, instead of trying to panick everyone, by pressing ur version harder.. U can believe half of assets damaged,all u want, but plzz spare us all. I wouldnt have said all this, but from the last 2 days, nuclearpak's version has been debunked by many members here already, but u are still adminant...so just keep it to yourself.....

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## iPhone

XYON said:


> I think it was pretty stupid on part of the Minhas Base Commander to come out with his sub-ordinates with guns blazing in this incident. Can you imagine the international and national impact and reaction had things would have gone wrong and TTP would have claimed to not only destroyed the Erieye but also shot & killed the Minhas Base Commander in its action? I do not subscribe to the Base Commanders action and do not think it was bravery rather sheer stupidity!! Besides, if the Base Commander himself has to come out with guns blazing, that is NOT preparedness but is sheer lack of it!
> 
> It was the month of Ramazan that saved a lot of people and the assets at Minhas. Unfortunately the TTP thugs did not do their homework properly and forgot that most of the people are awake for longer hours for the purpose of sehri.
> 
> Injured or not, bravery or stupidity whatever the reason, the Base Commander along with his cohorts should be COURT MARTIALED under the military law for negligence and destruction of Government property!



First off, Monday quarterbacking is the worst thing anyone can do. You weren't in the situation so you can't tell the security personnel involved what the should have or shouldn't have done.

I don't why such a bright and intelligent person like Mr. Mastan Khan agreed with you and thought your post was good, I think it's the worst ever analysis of the situation and combat norm ever.

A leader leading his troops into battlefield himself and putting himself in front is the most courageous and battleworthy thing ever. A normal soldier becomes superhuman all of a sudden knowing his commander is right there with him, fighting and facing the barrage of bullets and bombs with his soldiers.

And so what if the commander dies in the battle, no way can the enemy use his death in combat to their propaganda. On the contrary actually, his death will be glorified among his troops, their bravery and courage becomes ten fold knowing their commander died fighting with his troops. And it's proudest moment for any nation knowing their armed forces commanders are as brave and courageous as normal foot soldiers.

I never got the chance this entire episode of the event but salute to sepoy Asif shaheed and the base commander for their valiant bravery. I hope Shaheed Asif is considered for the highest Military medal.

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## DV RULES

This is an act of war and Pakistan should giver hard answer to anyone involved in this attack . This is now matter of national security and sovereignty.


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## Dil Pakistan

Too many rumors flying around and PDF is being used to spread the rumors.


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## Safriz

Farah Sohail said:


> I think in 1-2 days, ppl will start claiming tht half of the aircrafts and PAF assets in the base have been damaged in this attack...
> 
> I have been following this thread and some ppl, especially *nuclearpak* is desperate to prove maximum damage has been done to PAF, in this attack.. Dont know, what is their motive..One advice to nuclearpak...everyone now knows your version, and nobody is buying it, so it would be better if you just stay quiet, instead of trying to panick everyone, by pressing ur version harder.. U can believe half of assets damaged,all u want, but plzz spare us all. I wouldnt have said all this, but from the last 2 days, nuclearpak's version has been debunked by many members here already, but u are still adminant...so just keep it to yourself.....



Lets not discourage people in taking part in this open discussion and sort of information/Misinformation/Rumor pool.

4 months ago my friends living near Kamra base observed heightened security and all were saying something is about to happen and it did happen....
So rumor is not always wrong...but how precise Rumor is? Months ago many people were even saying that they thing there will be a Missile strike on Kamra Base,and Missiles will come flying from India and destroy the base..But nothing like that happened...

This time there are rumors about SAAB....but i doubt their accuracy but cannot reject them completely..
Something might have happened to "One of the aircraft"...but we don't know which aircraft it was? If it was SAAB at all or some other? what was the nature and extent of damage?
Soon after the terrorist attack the effected area of the airbase was cordoned off and specialist teams are there investigating the incident,and its highly improbable that any tom dick and harry can have a glimpse of SAAB and any other damaged aircraft,and the team involved in investigation cant be so unprofessional that they release info to masses...

For those reasons i say that treat rumors as rumors not as news.

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## TAC

Safriz said:


> Mobile phones found with dead terrorists....



Interesting that the video says that the ACM thanked the efforts of security forces in timely and effective response which destroyed the evil designs of the enemy (rough translation) -- would he be saying this if 2 SAABS were destroyed?? Or are we to believe he and defence minister are lying as part of a big cover up???


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## Arsalan

As for now, it is being reported in that one SAAB ERIEYE had got some damaged to its nose part, NOT THE ERIEYE RADAR but perhaps the aircraft Radar Radome, it will be repaired!

NO AIRCRAFT IS DESTROYED!!

if anyone have different information, please share and correct me!

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## Crypto

I think we should stick to what the official version is, i.e. one damaged but repairable. There is no reason for PAF to hide truth as eventually it will come out and they will become a laughing stock; more importantly loose CREDIBILITY. PNS Mehran attack was not kept secret so why this one???

From what i have gathered reading this thread, more news pieces indicate one damaged Saab 2000 which will be repaired and sent to Sweden for further inspection.


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## Scorpius

Wait till the press release comes, stop spreading **** guys. 

Goto the barbers and get your eid clothes ready oh and make sure you give your zakat and fitrana.

Eid Mubarak in advance.


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## BATMAN

Dil Pakistan said:


> Media reporting important arrests made in Lahore. Further breakthrough expected soon



Is interior ministry involved in these arrests?


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## XYON

TAC said:


> You are saying 'Unfortunately the TTP thugs did not do their homework properly'!!?? Were you hoping they would cause more death and destruction!!?? As for the base commander - he can't win - if he had stayed in the control room pakistanis would call him a coward - if he leads from the front - pakistanis will call him stupid. Don't understand what your logic is for court marshall. Negligence?? They stopped the terrorists with minimum damage.



Please replace 'unfortunately' with 'fortunately'!! Sorry for the typo!

The Base Commander had already 'lost' when the terrorists crossed over the first line of defense (the outer wall) and were able to come so close to our multi billion dollar strategic assets! Responsibility of the base security rests with one man - the base commander - and he failed miserably in my opinion in his task to let the thugs penetrate so deep into the base. Hence he is responsible for the damage and the loss of both life and property. That is enough reason for a court martial.


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## TAC

Islamabad to send damaged plane to Sweden for repairs Saturday, 18 August 2012 09:54


Share

ISLAMABAD: The defence minister of Pakistan has conceded that one of the Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW and C) System air craft of SAAB-2000 category has been hit at its nose during the attack on Minhas Airbase at Kamra by the Taliban and the government will send the plane to Sweden for inspection after its initial repair here.

Talking to The News newspaper in a report published yesterday, Defence Minister Syed Naveed Qamar said in the briefing given to him by the senior officials of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) it was not made clear that the plane hit by a stray bullet or rocket is worthy to fly anymore or not.

He said the plane could be repaired in the country but to be on safe side the machine must be examined by the manufacturer.

In the meanwhile, sources said on Friday that the federal cabinet would discuss different aspects of the Kamra attack in its meeting next week wherein the initial investigation report would also be presented. The cabinet would formally discuss awarding of the highest gallantry award, &#8216;Nishan-i-Haider&#8217;, to Sepoy Asif Ramzan, who laid down his life and foiled the terrorist attack.

Although Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) claimed responsibility for the assault, the sources questioned the veracity of the statement by saying that the surveillance planes have no significant role in the war against the extremists in tribal areas in Pakistan.

The purpose of the attack has a close resemblance with what was visible in the attack on Mehran Naval Base in Karachi as the miscreants wanted to destroy the surveillance planes in Karachi and SAAB-2000 were the target here.

Hence, an attempt to damage the aircraft was aimed at depriving the country of surveillance ability and was a work of Pakistan&#8217;s known enemies, the sources argued.

Internews

Islamabad to send damaged plane to Sweden for repairs

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## Safriz

XYON said:


> Please replace 'unfortunately' with 'fortunately'!! Sorry for the typo!
> 
> The Base Commander had already 'lost' when the terrorists crossed over the first line of defense (the outer wall) and were able to come so close to our multi billion dollar strategic assets! Responsibility of the base security rests with one man - the base commander - and he failed miserably in my opinion in his task to let the thugs penetrate so deep into the base. Hence he is responsible for the damage and the loss of both life and property. That is enough reason for a court martial.


 
Yes security was inadequate...
The distance between rear wall and hangers is hardly 200 meters....
Any healthy man can cover this distance in less than a minute...
Yet the security was less than 4 soldiers stationed on watch towers many hundreds of meters apart...and no secondary watch tower inside the wall..
There may have been cctv outside hangers...and they may be watvhing..
But it took 12 minutes for SSG to arrive,when the terrorists could have sprinted to hangers in kess than a minute..
The base commanders failed to take this fator in consideration.


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## SEAL

arsalanaslam123 said:


> As for now, it is being reported in that one SAAB ERIEYE had got some damaged to its nose part, NOT THE ERIEYE RADAR but perhaps the aircraft Radar Radome, it will be repaired!
> 
> NO AIRCRAFT IS DESTROYED!!
> 
> if anyone have different information, please share and correct me!



Your information is Correct


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## XYON

iPhone said:


> First off, Monday quarterbacking is the worst thing anyone can do. You weren't in the situation so you can't tell the security personnel involved what the should have or shouldn't have done.
> 
> I don't why such a bright and intelligent person like Mr. Mastan Khan agreed with you and thought your post was good, I think it's the worst ever analysis of the situation and combat norm ever.
> 
> A leader leading his troops into battlefield himself and putting himself in front is the most courageous and battleworthy thing ever. A normal soldier becomes superhuman all of a sudden knowing his commander is right there with him, fighting and facing the barrage of bullets and bombs with his soldiers.
> 
> And so what if the commander dies in the battle, no way can the enemy use his death in combat to their propaganda. On the contrary actually, his death will be glorified among his troops, their bravery and courage becomes ten fold knowing their commander died fighting with his troops. And it's proudest moment for any nation knowing their armed forces commanders are as brave and courageous as normal foot soldiers.
> 
> I never got the chance this entire episode of the event but salute to sepoy Asif shaheed and the base commander for their valiant bravery. I hope Shaheed Asif is considered for the highest Military medal.



What a fcuking dumb response!! 

Preparedness is to DENY entry to an intruder! Of Course the element of surprise is with the TTP as no one on the base has any perimeter surveillance to even raise an alarm of these thugs surveying the area, burying the cache of arms, digging them out to carry out the mission. Alarm was only raised when TTP terrorists breached the outer perimeter and penetrated deep into the base just like PNS Mehran incident. The base commander is DIRECTLY responsible for the security of the base. He FAILED Miserably in his assigned job irrespective if he lead form the front or the rear!! The death of the base commander would not have raised the moral of the base as this is NOT and INFANTRY fighting unit engaged face-to-face with the TTP guerrillas in Waziristan. It would have raised hue and cry from the rest of the country and everyone would have thought that it is a piece of cake to walk into a base and shoot the Commander. Your vision above is a 'Tonga Horse' view only seeing what is in front and not aware of the reality around! The reason Mastan Khan has understood and appreciated the analysis is because it gives a realistic approach to the situation and not the usual Fauji 'ALLAH HO AKBAR WE WON AND WE HAVE DEFEATED THE ENEMY'!! YADA YADA YADA!!

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## Mani2020

Windjammer said:


> If you check the PAF website, even the Mirage crash which happened a day or two before the Kamra incident is not mentioned.
> Firstly, during Ramazan, every one seems to knock off at around 1.00 PM, then you had the Independence day holiday, now the weekend and the Eid break. To be honest, i am not expecting a statement before Monday.
> While we are going on about the SAAB, the TTP were claiming JF-17s, and all others pointing to some damage to an IL-76.



I was not expecting something like this from a senior member like you , You are comparing a mirage crash which btw are 4 decades old to a full fledged attack on one of the major airforce base in the country with PAF's credibility at stake? tell me why on the earth a so sensitive institution will not try to defend its credibility and success had the case been limited upto just a minor damage? are these two by any means share any resemblance which you tried to create?

Secondly with due respect did i need to tell you that professional life doesnot have excuses like ramadan holidays or eid specially when the countries existence is at stake? We have seen our jawans fighting on eids and ramadans and independence days then why not a spokesman will bother to sit in an air conditioned room for 15 minutes ? Is it asking too much?

Do you expect military to not fought on the war fronts just because there is Ramadan or eid holidays in between? We are not talking about a school kid here rather a professional military force that is answerable to 18 million of people .

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## XYON

Safriz said:


> Yes security was inadequate...
> The distance between rear wall and hangers is hardly 200 meters....
> Any healthy man can cover this distance in less than a minute...
> Yet the security was less than 4 soldiers stationed on watch towers many hundreds of meters apart...and no secondary watch tower inside the wall..
> There may have been cctv outside hangers...and they may be watvhing..
> But it took 12 minutes for SSG to arrive,when the terrorists could have sprinted to hangers in kess than a minute..
> The base commanders failed to take this fator in consideration.



The Base Commander had not calculated this simple breach scenario into the security equation of the base. Reason enough for the Court Martial to take place. TTP found the chink in the Armour and it hit!

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## OrionHunter

Great! RAW, MOSSAD, CIA, AMAN, DIA, etc, etc, etc!! The usual mumbo jumbo spewed by the Establishment. Of course it's not about the abject failure of intel, the lack of preparedness at the base, the warnings by the TTP, the overall aim and objectives of the TTP working against Pakistan's interests. It's all about shifting the blame to all and sundry and hatching conspiracy theories in order to save the necks of the powers-that-be. 

The blame game is an old habit not only in Pakistan but India too. Deflecting the blame to everyone else but those responsible, has become a fine art. How come the much vaunted ISI's counter intel wing knew nothing of what was happening? Was there inside help like some contend, like what happened at Mehran?

The issue is much more serious than just taking the easy way out by blaming the U.S, India, Afghanistan, Israel etc etc. It seems no lessons have been learnt from the previous episodes.


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## BATMAN

Even before Meharn attack, i concluded that Indians would be stepping up the cold war and TTP attacks will increase, squarely, because Zardari's co-operative regime is coming to end.

Cold war is warming up, dear Pakistanis, get ready for more action. 2012 will be a memorable year.

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## Safriz

OrionHunter said:


> Great! RAW, MOSSAD, CIA, AMAN, DIA, etc, etc, etc!! The usual mumbo jumbo spewed by the Establishment. Of course it's not about the abject failure of intel, the lack of preparedness at the base, the warnings by the TTP, the overall aim and objectives of the TTP working against Pakistan's interests. It's all about shifting the blame to all and sundry and hatching conspiracy theories in order to save the necks of the powers-that-be.
> 
> The blame game is an old habit not only in Pakistan but India too. Deflecting the blame to everyone else but those responsible, has become a fine art. How come the much vaunted ISI's counter intel wing knew nothing of what was happening? Was there inside help like some contend, like what happened at Mehran?
> 
> The issue is much more serious than just taking the easy way out by blaming the U.S, India, Afghanistan, Israel etc etc. It seems no lessons have been learnt from the previous episodes.


 
Why TTP would specifically target an awacs? And leave the big fat IL 78 ?
They were not there for terrorism..they came there to destroy pakistans survailance and early warning capability..
Taliban has monkeys to do with this..
India has.

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## Mani2020

BATMAN said:


> Even before Meharn attack, i concluded that Indians would be stepping up the cold war and TTP attacks will increase, squarely, because Zardari's co-operative regime is coming to end.
> 
> Cold war is warming up, dear Pakistanis, get ready for more action. 2012 will be a memorable year.



What action mate? do you seriously think coward zardari and co will try to take any initiative they are more into making money. And let alone Mr Kayani and co they are not even interested in looking at the angle you mentioned leave alone any response . What progress we made after mehran attack? Even you ask any tom, dick and harry and he will tell you that who has invested in these attacks and the destroyed assets were dangerous to whom . And our think tanks are not even willing to go for this prospect rather they are busy in all that aman stuff which we know how fake it is on the other side of the border. Let a fire cracker explode and you will have them all guns blazing at you 

We are openly inviting them to kick our butt , so why wouldnot they? who spares their enemy with such chance?

We are reaping what we sow , we lead the americans use our bases against afghanis then we lead afghanis to cross the borders and settle in, then the active campaigns by our opponents of making afghans think that Pakistan is the one who is responsible to their sufferings , then the sense of deprivation and hatred prevailed among the afghanis . Now you have dont know how many groups like ttp with training across the border and sponsorships ... They are getting more than what they thought or desired thanks to our sleeping security and egoistic followers. who dont want to give a damn even the whole country is set on fire, you criticize their ideals and bang you are tagged with dont know what labels

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## Imran Khan

3 arrested in pindi

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## Rafi

Enough is enough, we need to get medieval on the takfiri - we have to decide once and for all, if this country is ours or theirs, regarding the air craft - I am hearing the same thing, damage to nose, plane will be flown to Sweden to repair.

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## meena24

Safriz said:


> Why TTP would specifically target an awacs? And leave the big fat IL 78 ?
> They were not there for terrorism..they came there to destroy pakistans survailance and early warning capability..
> Taliban has monkeys to do with this..
> India has.



Please don't blame India for each and everything, It was with the same Taliban you signed a peace deal in swat, It was the same Taliban whom you called as patriots after 26/11 attacks. Still now no credible evidence has been given Either to India or to the World that RAW is supporting Tehrik E Taliban.


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## RazPaK

Rafi said:


> Enough is enough, we need to get medieval on the takfiri - we have to decide once and for all, if this country is ours or theirs, regarding the air craft - I am hearing the same thing, damage to nose, plane will be flown to Sweden to repair.



I agree. Until we don't start putting their severed heads on pikes around Fata, they will continue to get bolder.

An iron hand is needed. Our propaganda machine is weak, but even media should be forced to start a campaign against these scum. Tribals should be armed and rewarded for killing a TTP.

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## DARKY

Rafi said:


> Enough is enough, we need to get medieval on the takfiri - we have to decide once and for all, if this country is ours or theirs, regarding the air craft - I am hearing the same thing, damage to nose, *plane will be flown* to Sweden to repair.



How do you fly a plane with damaged/broken nose ?

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## KS

How many AWACS damaged and to what extent ?


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## fatman17

why start another thread when this is being discussed already in pakistan's war section - why do you people keep providing fodder to the indians is beyond me - pl close this thread


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## Rafi

DARKY said:


> How do you fly a plane with damaged/broken nose ?



It is not that damaged, but obviously in the long term repair by the manufacturer is desired - to do with warranty, insurance etc.


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## Imran Khan

DARKY said:


> How do you fly a plane with damaged/broken nose ?



aftrer repair job done in pakistan it will fly to sweden for checkup .


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## Safriz

DARKY said:


> How do you fly a plane with damaged/broken nose ?



exactly..
none of those "rumors" make sense.


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## Rafi

I think a liquidation program with a military tribunal sitting in secret - sentencing takfiri to death, with the takfiri being taken out by "wet work" operatives - with total deniability is the order of the day. The only way we can control these sob's - the courts are too weak to sort this out.

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## Safriz

KS said:


> How many AWACS damaged and to what extent ?



All awacs destroyed according to some members here...



Rafi said:


> I think a liquidation program with a military tribunal sitting in secret - sentencing takfiri to death, with the takfiri being taken out by "wet work" operatives - with total deniability is the order of the day. The only way we can control these sob's - the courts are too weak to sort this out.



This tactic may be ultimate solution but then many will cry about "Le missing persons" as they do about Baluch terrorists...

Court cases can be held and should be held...But there should be changes in law for these type of cases as these are not normal civil cases.
Now who is responsible for changing the law? The legislative assemblies?
But they are too busy proving each others degrees fake...

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## Thor

BATMAN said:


> Even before Meharn attack, i concluded that Indians would be stepping up the cold war and TTP attacks will increase, squarely, because Zardari's co-operative regime is coming to end.
> 
> Cold war is warming up, dear Pakistanis, get ready for more action. 2012 will be a memorable year.



Payback is going to be such a ***** when the ISI mandate gets changed to India specific once again, and just like we don't have evidence of RAW involvement they too will not have any just like Kashmir part 1 inshallah. When that time comes Pakistan seeiously needs to make a decision on whether a stable India is in Pakistan's interest. 

Till that time let them pull all the stops they want, unless war breaks out, at which point the US and Israel will remain safe, India on the other hand, well only time will tell.

Any further news on what exactly was damaged or is the PAF keeping all the enemies guessing.



BATMAN said:


> Even before Meharn attack, i concluded that Indians would be stepping up the cold war and TTP attacks will increase, squarely, because Zardari's co-operative regime is coming to end.
> 
> Cold war is warming up, dear Pakistanis, get ready for more action. 2012 will be a memorable year.



Payback is going to be such a ***** when the ISI mandate gets changed to India specific once again, and just like we don't have evidence of RAW involvement they too will not have any just like Kashmir part 1 inshallah. When that time comes Pakistan seeiously needs to make a decision on whether a stable India is in Pakistan's interest. 

Till that time let them pull all the stops they want, unless war breaks out, at which point the US and Israel will remain safe, India on the other hand, well only time will tell.

Any further news on what exactly was damaged or is the PAF keeping all the enemies guessing.


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## Qasibr

DV RULES said:


> This is an act of war and Pakistan should giver hard answer to anyone involved in this attack . This is now matter of national security and sovereignty.



We should go after any other countries who aid, abbet, fund and supply these militants. The AWACS is a high-value military target that adversarial countries would be very interested in eliminating, not a bunch of disgruntled uneducated tribesmen who wouldn't know an AWACS from a 747.

Similar stuff also happened a couple of years ago when French engineers working on the Agosta subs were targetted and killed.


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## SQ8

KS said:


> How many AWACS damaged and to what extent ?



One Saab 2000 was hit in the nose cone by flying debris from a RPG.
The nose cone has been dented and some fragments embedded into the frontal fuselage.
Makeshift repairs have been carried out.. All electronics and systems are operational.
The aircraft will fly to the SAAB factory for a new nosecone and any required repairs.

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## Safriz

Oscar said:


> One Saab 2000 was hit in the nose cone by flying debris from a RPG.
> The nose cone has been dented and some fragments embedded into the frontal fuselage.
> Makeshift repairs have been carried out.. All electronics and systems are operational.
> The aircraft will fly to the SAAB factory for a new nosecone and any required repairs.



and that will cost some tens of millions?

Its a shame that Enemy fire even reached such high value targets...Despite months old intelligence on the impending attack...

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## Windjammer

Mani2020 said:


> I was not expecting something like this from a senior member like you , You are comparing a mirage crash which btw are 4 decades old to a full fledged attack on one of the major airforce base in the country with PAF's credibility at stake? tell me why on the earth a so sensitive institution will not try to defend its credibility and success had the case been limited upto just a minor damage? are these two by any means share any resemblance which you tried to create?
> 
> Secondly with due respect did i need to tell you that professional life doesnot have excuses like ramadan holidays or eid specially when the countries existence is at stake? We have seen our jawans fighting on eids and ramadans and independence days then why not a spokesman will bother to sit in an air conditioned room for 15 minutes ? Is it asking too much?
> 
> Do you expect military to not fought on the war fronts just because there is Ramadan or eid holidays in between? We are not talking about a school kid here rather a professional military force that is answerable to 18 million of people .



I guess you didn't get the psyche of my post, what would you expect the PAF spokesperson to come out and say except what he hasn't already disclosed to the media. When was the last time the PAF spoke person held a press conference, they have always relayed through the media. Just because some of us are suspecting, wishing or hoping that something must have happened, PAF doesn't need to clarify the situation. Please understand the amount of intelligence at stake, perhaps there is a reason to keep quite for the moment. As i said earlier, PAF would issue a statement in next few days. !!

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## BATMAN

^^ Why should PAF issue statement to satisfy who`?
Instead PAF shall keep a hush and focus on JFT.
I'm expecting raids like Abbottabad on Pakistan's strategic assets / locations.
I really hope every armyman, have built early warning security perimeter around him.


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.


ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.

The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.

Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.

The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.

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## pakdefender

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> 
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.



the base commander should be comended , he led from the front , it goes to show the resolve and may I say downright hatered that there is in military against these subhuman animals that are targetting those assets of Pakistan that are india specific.

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## Masterio92

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> 
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.



Aptly said,

A base commander supposed to be charged with threat anticipation to the base before they reach to crisis level.

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## Devil Soul




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## khail007

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> 
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.



Sir, may be your opinion is fit for modern day tactics and warfare (which most probably a westernized style), but in older times the leader not only planning but themselves successfully involved in battles. For proof, I can honourably mention the name of Hazrat Khalid Bin Waleed (Razi Allah Unho), who got countless battle wounds on his body.

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## Peregrine

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> 
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.


If you remember Rawalpindi parade lane incident, then you would know of Maj general Bilal, who had grabbed one of the terrorists and in the process of struggling with terrorists he was killed. So now if we go by your theory, he should have fled the scene like general yousaf and shouldn't have saved lives of so many people there including children. As for Kamra attack, it wasn't a gladiators arena that the base commander should have enjoyed his men being killed by terrorists, while he watched all that from his safe office. Did it occur to you that his actions may have saved lives of many soldiers there? Just because he was senior to all those fighting terrorists so he shouldn't have joined them, WOW very sensitive logic! When you are in a battle field there are no seniors or juniors, just your men and enemy.

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## danger007

Devil Soul said:


>



hmmm lost one life in that attack... i thought no one injured..... R.I.P that brave soul...

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## danger007

Edited:no need to respond troll's....

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## Peaceful Civilian

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> 
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.



Base commander can't change mindset of the people. Some will prefer religious activity than the duty itself.
Surely, Army fought well after attack.
But there was lack of security or some holes in the security. Staff was not enough at the time and commander jumped into the fight.
This was well planned attack and they knew the 27Th Holy night, Sehri activities and other religious offering in this night. 
Also we need high security on Eid, chaklala airbase also have high threats. Need tight security specially at Eid prayer time.Some AWACS are in Chaklala airbase now and these are main target for the terrorist.
These unique Terrorist aim is not to kill people , they are concerned with how many destruction/damage to AWACS.


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## Donatello

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> 
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.




Can you please compile your posts in a book/note pad, and send one copy to me and one to GHQ?


This advice will fall on deaf ears. I love the Pak Army jawans who take the bullet (literally) for the country, the air men who keep the aircraft air worthy and the sailors who man their ships.

But i have Zero (0) respect for the leaders guiding them.

Like i have seen from my life experience, these Generals/Admirals and Air Marshals are as shameless as they get. The Air Mashal, the Admiral and the General don't give a **** about these multi million dollar equipment because they didn't buy it, their daddy didn't buy it, but the poor tax paying civilians bought them. So why give a shyt.....Right?

Have you ever seen the level of protection accorded to these Leaders at their homes? To their school age kids or when the corps commander is playing golf? But these idiots cannot protect the assets of their motherland. 

Shame shame. 

Konsi galee doo?

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## XYON

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> 
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.



SPOT ON!

Unfortunately most of the young and inexperienced bucks on this forum fail to understand this age-old military logic! They are still tied with the semi-Sultan Rahi NARA BAAZI of Mission Accomplished!! AHQ will be setting a very bad precedent for future commanders if it does not court martial the base commander as a minimum! I am even personally disgusted to see him walking along with the CAS and PAC Chairman with the fcuking MARHAM PATTI around his neck and arm! Punishment has to be served!

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## Windjammer

@ Pakistani boys, no need to feed the Bharti trolls...... their tail is on fire since Kamra didn't turn out like Mehran.....bunch of losers.

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## Peregrine

XYON said:


> SPOT ON!
> 
> Unfortunately most of the young and inexperienced bucks on this forum fail to understand this age-old military logic! They are still tied with the semi-Sultan Rahi NARA BAAZI of Mission Accomplished!! AHQ will be setting a very bad precedent for future commanders if it does not court martial the base commander as a minimum! I am even personally disgusted to see him walking along with the CAS and PAC Chairman with the fcuking MARHAM PATTI around his neck and arm! Punishment has to be served!


Please pardon us young and inexperienced bucks for not being able to follow your primitive slave master rituals when a subordinate is in fight for his life.

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## Awesome

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.


It does not mean that - even PNS Mehran attack wasn't very close to losing a fight. It just shows one thing - the commander led from the front.




> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.


So who said LTs and 2LTs didn't part-take in the fight?



> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.



He had three check posts in place, which were breached but the base was not breached. The problem does not lie with the base commander which serves 2-3 years on this post at most. The problem lies in the overall security policy of the country. The Pind Makkhan population did not grow right up to Kamra during his tenure. This sort of massive population re-arrangement away from security zones is the responsibility of the government.



> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.


There is appreciation to be given to the person who runs towards the sound of gun fire.



> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.


We all know the competence of the people jinki pant gheeli hojati hai on the sound of a fight. So please, the guy took a bullet for this country and then some more, whatever he stinks off, the foul smell of your words are drowning it.

I can't believe the drawing room experts who give such absolute statements jese uss pata nahi security and strategy ki Quran and Hadith unho ne hi likhi ho.

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## Safriz

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> 
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.



All the security was concentrated at the front of the base towards GT road..
Minimal at the back and they assumed nobody will see this lapse....when their Prized possessions were less than 1 minute Sprint from the rear wall..
Did the base commander sleep during military planning lessons in his training days?

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## Vinod2070

Windjammer said:


> Really, wish i could believe you but one of your country fellow was adamant to give credit to the TTP, however, one needs some comprehension ability to read between the lines.



It may be TTP or any of the hundreds of others that roam your streets. It is still your own mess.

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## SQ8

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> 
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.



what are you talking about old man, The base commander went out to lead from the front.. that is a huge morale booster.
And as for the failure to anticipate the attack, Do you even realize that the attack never got anywhere beyond the first perimeter?
Compare this to the Karachi attack, where the terrorists literally strolled in like its was their own house.

Have you even looked at the base? studied its surroundings?
The biggest mistake that was made was letting the civilian population get so close to the base. ..that is not something that happened ten years ago.. the village has been there since 1960. There was already an alert at the base for an attack, which is why the TERRORISTS never got beyond a few meters.
THE ONLY damage.. was to the Erieye from fragments of an RPG fired from 600 meters away.

There are no 100's of soldiers patrolling at any given time. do you even have an inkling.. a logical thought of the sheer cost of keeping such a force active? 
Now Ill tell you something..
There have been huge measures taken since the Faisal Base attack.. 
The second the guard alerted and fired the first shot,An alarm went off in a multiple LCD equipped control room at the base, tens of cameras mounted on the base perimeter focused on that section. A signal also went to AHQ and the rapid SSG reaction force at tarbela. By the time more base security was responding, SSG were rushing out, A C130 equipped with the STAR Safire EO pod had its crew rushing out on the tarmac. 
By the time the Base commander had joined his security chief at the firefight(where he took the bullet, got stitched and went back in) , the SSG's were airborne and 111 Brigade was also moving.. 
The result was that the whole operation was wrapped up in less than two hours.

Now what you are suggesting.. is that PAF is being stupid by not evicting every villager, every person out of their house..
That the PAF should scrap what little funds it has for equipment ..and spend it on keeping guards patrolling Kamra city and every other place it has a base?

Moreover? Do Human beings know when they are having their babies by the minute? or second?
because if you can get a doctor to write the exact second a woman is going to go into labour even 5 days before the given date of delivery.. then you can claim that the exact time of the attack can be calculated.

This is intelligence.. its only soo much accurate.
The attack was known about, which is why security was still potent enough to prevent any incursion.. 
what damage was done is also the result of a desperate final RPG launch from the village
Now what I do consider the PAF's fault is not having patrols within the village.. but is that feasible? Would villagers accept it?

Unless you think that was the base commanders fault too, or perhaps the Air Chief..
or perhaps mine and all of Pakistan's collective young men??



Asim Aquil said:


> *I can't believe the drawing room experts who give such absolute statements jese uss pata nahi security and strategy ki Quran and Hadith unho ne hi likhi ho.*



thou shalt not question the wise ones.. who havent spent a minute in having ANYTHING to do with these fields..some not even in the country.
but make statements like the ten commandments themselves.

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## KS

Is there a possibility that RAW has a role in this ?


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## SQ8

Safriz said:


> All the security was concentrated at the front of the base towards GT road..
> *Minimal at the back and they assumed nobody will see this lapse....when their Prized possessions were less than 1 minute Sprint from the rear wall..*
> Did the *base commander sleep during military planning lessons in his training days*?



Both incorrect and hot headed statements...
If there was no security at that section.. then how were those terrorists stopped right there??within 20 meters of that wall?
THINK?

Again, a hot headed statement.



KS said:


> Is there a possibility that RAW has a role in this ?



Would you like it to?

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## KS

Oscar said:


> Would you like it to?



My question was not that, but does the Pakistani intelligence community think so ? You seem to have the inside info.

To answer yours, I would not be surprised if it did.

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## Shak

BATMAN said:


> ^^ Why should PAF issue statement to satisfy who`?
> Instead PAF shall keep a hush and focus on JFT.
> I'm expecting raids like Abbottabad on Pakistan's strategic assets / locations.
> *I really hope every armyman, have built early warning security perimeter around him.*




What is the meaning of boalded part? can you please explain?


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## Tehmasib



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## Stealth

IMO the situation of Pakistan Army - Incompetence. Whatever it is, we are in the state of WAR and still our media and military + politicians always used term for the sitation is "we are fighting WAR ON TERROR. Sentence "WOT" used by BUSH and whenever our Media/Politicians/Military used this term in front of the people of Pakistan. People though this is AMERICA's WAR. By preception if you used term "Rah-e-Nijat" something like that than people think this is our War. So we are fighting this war "In the state of War" with Police and local agencies. Army is totally failed to deliver frankly speaking. In such situation Pakistan's military installations must be very very strict and very hard to breach. 

IMO this army has "NO DIRECTION". The military blackmail by Americans everytime. Look how Americans play this game. First they put "Haqqani terrorist org act" in the parliment and waiting for the clinton approval. Still why not Clinton approved this? Why our idiot Generals and Military officials passed statement regarding the operation in NW before operation?

This remind me the situation of Pakistan's police like when the robbers doing robbery in the bank and police got call, Police came with "TOO-TAAN TOO-TAAN TOOO-TAAN" with full of hooters and the robbers escaped before the police reached the bank.

The Army is totally failed to deliver in every situation. There is no technical/logical foreign and local policy by military. They don't even know what is next. They are just blackmail by Americans and just to safe their position do whatever - in real time. They don't have any policy for Pakistan now. 

This Menhas base attack is totally different story. At least its a bigger picture and huge objectives behind this Menhas/Mehran/GHQ base which we will see in upcoming months when US already create perception about Pakistan's nuke like they did before Iraq invasion. They create perception and also send Haqqani and other organizations whom they think they got support from Pakistan's Military and Intel (as a terrorist organizations). They will move that act into the UNITED NATION and involve UN to start campaign against Pakistan's Nuclear Assets and bla bla bullshit which Americans and Indian doing from last many years.

The only Nation who have direct problem with our Nuclear Missiles is "India" and why America create perception about Pakistan nukes to behalf of India. India actually doing America's job - for next bigger plan to counter China and what India want in favor from US ? everyone knows what India actually want. India is totally incapable to create perception and even do anything against Pakistan on its own. The last option for India is to use American policy makers against Pakistan. 

In fact India still not achieve their goals but the way situation is going on might be with in few months or year might be US will put this case (Pakistan's Nuclear issue) in International Organizations like UN and others to make that case proper and against Pakistan. 

Pakistan Army still not properly understand whats going on and not even understand the big game behind the scene IMO.

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## Shak

Do you really think that Indians are so capable to do this job??? We are so fu(ked up with Asam situation. our politicians and army dont have any intention and CAPACITY to rule or destroy any part of the world. We cant handle our own country


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## SQ8

KS said:


> My question was not that, but does the Pakistani intelligence community think so ? You seem to have the *inside info.*
> 
> To answer yours, I would not be surprised if it did.



I catch whatever drips out of the people with their fingers in the pie.
So NO.. nothing concrete... everyone can speculate.. but NO.
terrorists need a direction.. they dont just march into Kamra or Faisal..
They have handlers.. Till the intel community can identify those..
There is nothing that can be said.



Shak said:


> Do you really think that Indians are so capable to do this job??? We are so fu(ked up with Asam situation. our politicians and army dont have any intention and CAPACITY to rule or destroy any part of the world. *We cant handle our own country*



I consider this an insult to India.. and vehemently disagree with you.
However.. India is not that old either.. its 66 .. and that is baby years in terms of a nation.. 
Things take time.

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## danger007

Tehmasib said:


>


hijacked PAF jet??/ didn't understand.... but their will be proud for giving birth to brave soldiers.....


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## Peregrine

Personnel reliability system, needs restructuring, so that all loose cannons can be dealt with in time.


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## Last Hope

Here is a post by our Think Tank, Najam Khan:



> On the night of August 15, militants pounded the heart of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Base Minhas situated at Kamra &#8212; the place where the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), a leading aviation and defence production centre of Pakistan is located.
> 
> It was a well-planned attack that was precisely executed and skilfully targeted. Unlike most of the earlier attacks on Pakistani forces, the targets were not soldiers. The terrorists adopted the same mission profile that they used in the attack on PNS Mehran on May 22, 2011. They were aided by modern equipment like night vision goggles for better situational awareness at night. This time, terrorists took advantage of strategic surprise by attacking on the 27th of Ramazan; the Arabs did the same with Israelis in the Yom Kippur War of 1973.
> 
> The Kamra attack raises two major questions: why the Minhas Air Force Base? And why attack air surveillance systems only?
> 
> Minhas is one of the most important airbases of the PAF. The major part of its geographic location is shared by the PAC, which comprises four factories: the aircraft manufacturing factory, avionics production factory, Mirage repair factory and aircraft rebuild factory. These factories build, repair and overhaul major weapons systems of the PAF.
> 
> Minhas is home to two operational fighter squadrons, a search and rescue squadron and an air-surveillance squadron comprising the Saab-2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control Systems (AEW&C). Various villages are situated on the outskirts of the base. The main road of the PAC, on which all four factories are located, was open to the public until the suicide attack in 2007. These reasons made Minhas a prized target.
> 
> Just like the P-3 Orions of Pak Navy that were destroyed at Mehran, the Saab-2000 AEW&C aircraft are very expensive air-surveillance systems. They provide battlefield pictures, information about land, air or sea enemy targets and enhance situation awareness of the PAF combat fleets by sharing target information.
> 
> The Saab-2000 AEW&C is not a system to be used in the ongoing fighting in Fata. The long-range, high-endurance and deep radar coverage capability of the Saab-2000 AEW&C can challenge India&#8217;s air superiority in the region. For India, achieving air superiority without getting the best of such air-surveillance systems is not possible. Air battles of today and of the future will not entirely rely on well-equipped fighter units penetrating enemy airspace. The network centric system of war, which includes AEW&C systems sharing battlefield information with fighter units, ground units and battleships, will form the order of battle. AEW&C systems are not much of a threat to militants. The question to ponder upon is: are the terrorists attacking Pakistan&#8217;s AEW&C and surveillance systems at the behest of another country? This takes state sponsoring of terrorism to a whole new level. It is a manifestation of sub-conventional warfare. What would Pakistani decision-makers do to counter this strategic nightmare?
> 
> To address these challenges, Pakistani armed forces have to beef up the security of its military installations. Particularly, the bases with force multiplier systems and air-surveillance systems should be given extra security. The military bases with residential areas on their outskirts need to be monitored on a routine basis. In the present ongoing security situation, we cannot be relaxed at any time. Multilayered security should be made possible in all areas of bases because one thing is for sure: the attackers don&#8217;t use the front door anymore.

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## Safriz

Tehmasib said:


>



This man certainly deserves the highest level of Award here and reward hereafter....

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## Hyperion

Rafi said:


> I think a liquidation program with a military tribunal sitting in secret - sentencing takfiri to death, with the takfiri being taken out by "wet work" operatives - with total deniability is the order of the day. The only way we can control these sob's - the courts are too weak to sort this out.



We do think alike. Kudos for the great idea! 

"*Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.*" _~ Eleanor Roosevelt _

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## Shak

Oscar I am not good witter and I dont know about you except you are think tank. Today's India got screwed UP due to weak system and impotent politicians. 

I do not want to insult my country and its no where near to topic too. But as you can see lot of scams and citizens are so afraid in own county make no sense of governance. We are moving so fast towards destruction and collapse of democratic country.

Take it or leave it.


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## SQ8

Shak said:


> Oscar I am not good witter and I dont know about you except you are think tank. Today's India got screwed UP due to weak system and impotent politicians.
> 
> I do not want to insult my country and its no where near to topic too. *But as you can see lot of scams and citizens are so afraid in own county make no sense of governance*. We are moving so fast towards destruction and collapse of democratic country.
> 
> Take it or leave it.



I think the issue is more of differential development.. and the quality of politics available to the people of the whole subcontinent. However, India's democratic path is far better and *ensures better accountability at the end*...AS LONG AS EDUCATION KEEPS RISING. 

However, this is beyond the topic.. so this discussion may end here to be carried out elsewhere later.



Peregrine said:


> Personnel reliability system, needs restructuring, so that all loose cannons can be dealt with in time.



May not be the case here.. 
Kamra airbase is surrounded by buildings tall enough to get a peek into the base..
what is needed is curtailing the height of the civilian construction surrounding the base and not permitting further construction within a certain perimeter.

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## XYON

Peregrine said:


> Please pardon us young and inexperienced bucks for not being able to follow your primitive slave master rituals when a subordinate is in fight for his life.



Right! I would like to answer that in a more firm tone, but then your declaration of your age reminded me of not arguing with an idiot! Please also add lack of vision and common sense with your inexperience and delinquent attitude. People like you never make it beyond the first star! On the next attack, please also invite the CAS and his Staff Officers to join in the fireworks!!!! It is precisely this very 'SANU NAA DASO, SANU SUB KUJ AANDAA JAY' thinking that causes these rag head to give the military a bloody nose each and every time!


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## third eye

Shak said:


> Oscar I am not good witter and I dont know about you except you are think tank. Today's India got screwed UP due to weak system and impotent politicians.
> 
> I do not want to insult my country and its no where near to topic too. But as you can see lot of scams and citizens are so afraid in own county make no sense of governance.* We are moving so fast towards destruction and collapse of democratic country.*
> 
> Take it or leave it.



Though off topic.

Relax, we are no where close to what you fear. In any case don't we elect these politicians ?

We get what we vote.

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## BATMAN

Asim Aquil said:


> He had three check posts in place, which were breached but the base was not breached


Are you serious man? Have you googled up the area?

Terrorists entered the base from village side,.... came across NO checkpost, what so ever.
The were laden with logistics and in a group of nine.
They successfully crossed the wall, dugedup a cover and initialized their equipment.

Please, check your comments again.



> The problem does not lie with the base commander which serves 2-3 years on this post at most.


Problem lies with base commander alone, unlucky soul, could have been better than others, but try to understand the role of leadership!
Doesn't matter what your predecessor have done or what you have been inherited... commander does not mean to follow, it means to lead. You know what i think... on first day of his arrival he should have implemented his own system, if the previous one was bogus but even if the previous one was perfect, he should have worked on its improvement.



> The problem lies in the overall security policy of the country. The Pind Makkhan population did not grow right up to Kamra during his tenure. This sort of massive population re-arrangement away from security zones is the responsibility of the government.



That's very true but base commander failed in his capacity and acted because there was no real security to help.
We also do not know did the rocket was fired first or alarm's were triggered first.



> There is appreciation to be given to the person who runs towards the sound of gun fire.


Put your self in his shoes and think what choices have you made?




> We all know the competence of the people jinki pant gheeli hojati hai on the sound of a fight. So please, the guy took a bullet for this country and then some more, whatever he stinks off, the foul smell of your words are drowning it.


He may be a competent and brave officer, but at the same time, responsible for the mess.
Trust me security could have been better, even if we ignore the technical aspects of security plan. 
He simply could have appointed two guards together, instead of singles. He shall have never accepted the parking of strategic assets in midst of dens population.



> I can't believe the drawing room experts who give such absolute statements jese uss pata nahi security and strategy ki Quran and Hadith unho ne hi likhi ho


If you are referring to MK, than you think he has not past a security check post ever in his life or he has never seen any international standard security installation!
I'm no soldier but.. i have crossed security perimeters around the globe, i have seen countries at risk of terrorism and crossed their check posts!
I can conveniently say Pakistan security arrangements sucks, they are all casual.

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## Windjammer

Vinod2070 said:


> It may be TTP or any of the hundreds of others that roam your streets. It is still your own mess.



Even if it's our mess, it's all the more interesting to see what kind of people a MESS seems to attract.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Time to invade Afghanistan -

TTP , Taliban , ABCD , what ever ... 

Put them in line and let the JF17 Thunder and Alkhalid l0ose

Comment about the solider PAF that died , 
Deserves a Nishan e Haider , no doubt , these soliders saved strategic assets worth billions


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## XYON

Safriz said:


> This man certainly deserves the highest level of Award here and reward hereafter....



A totally useless fact!! However, salutations to this brave DSG grunt for doing his job effectively!! These are the silent soldiers who lay down their lives without the want of any award or reward and should be treated with the utmost respect and honour!


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## BATMAN

Any chance spy drones & settelites, being used by the handlers to confirm presence of AWACS?


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## Najam Khan

Last Hope said:


> Here is a post by our Think Tank, Najam Khan:



You beat me. I am posting its original version, Experss tribune has edited it to meet theme of their paper.

*Kamra Air Force Base Attack: Some Thoughts *

On the night of August 15 and the Holy night of 27th Ramadan a bunch of militants pounded the heart of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Base Minhas situated at Kamra, this is also the place where Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) a leading aviation and defence production centre of Pakistanis located.

The intruders were not just a bunch of well trained, twisted-minded terrorists who could jump in the fire for fun. Neither was it a random attack by suicide bombers with loads of ammunition in their backpacks. It was deliberate and well-planned attack that was precisely executed and skilfully targeted. Unlike most of the earlier attacks on Pakistani forces the targets were not the soldiers.

The terrorists adopted the same mission profile they used in attack on PNS Mehran at Karachi on 22 May 2011, in which terrorists took advantage of civilian populated section of the base, using night as a cover, military uniforms for deception, lethal and automatic weapons like Rocket Propelled Grenade (RPG) for quick and precise attack. They were aided by modern equipment like Night Vision Goggles (NVG) for better situational awareness at night. Furthermore, this time terrorists took the advantage of strategic surprise by attacking on the Holy night of 27 Ramadan&#8230;any practicing Muslim would have been praying that night. Arabs did the same with the Israelis in the Yom Kippur War 1973. Attack on Yom Kippur, an important religious day for Jews, caught the Israeli forces by surprise and the advancing Arab forces accrued great advantage from this tactic.
The Kamra attack raises two major questions: why Minhas Air Force Base (AFB)? And why attack air surveillance systems only?

Minhas AFB is one of the most important air bases of PAF. The major part of the geographic location is shared by PAC, which comprises of four factories i.e. Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF), Avionics Production Factory (APF), Mirage Rebuild Factory (MRF) and Aircraft Rebuild Factory (ARF). These factories build, repair and overhaul major weapons systems of PAF including JF-17 Thunder, Mirage-III/V, F-7P/PG, K-8, Mushshak/Super Mushshak aircraft, low-level and high-level radar systems and engine overhaul of C-130, Y-12 and Boeing-777 aircraft.
Minhas AFB is home to two operational fighter squadrons (namely No.14 squadron equipped with Chinese F-7P aircraft and No.16 squadron with Pak-China JF-17 Thunder aircraft), a Search and Rescue Squadron with Alouette-III helicopters and an air-surveillance squadron comprising of Saab-2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control Systems (AEW&C). Some C-130 transport aircraft and IL-78 Multirole tanker and transport aircraft are also stationed on the base.

Minhas AFB is located near densely populated city of Attock. Back in 1974, it was amongst the lowest populated areas of the district Attock. Today various villages are situated in the outskirts of the base&#8230;For reader&#8217;s interest; the main road of PAC (on which all four factories are located) was fully open to public till the suicide attack on the road of the base in late 2007.
*All these reasons made Minhas AFB the prized target for terrorists. Now coming to the second question i.e. why attack air surveillance systems only?*

As mentioned in the beginning of this article that the terrorists adopted mission profile used in attack on PNS Mehran, in which RPG were fired on P-3 Orion Maritime Surveillance Aircraft. That resulted in complete destruction of two of such systems and one Sea King Helicopter as well.
Just like P-3 Orions of Pak Navy (PN), Saab-2000 AEW&C aircraft are very expensive, long range air-surveillance systems. The Saab-2000 AEW&C has a range of up to 450km. It can provide battlefield picture, information about enemy targets (in air, land or sea), enhance situation awareness of combat fleet of PAF by sharing target information. Also, it can continuously remain in the air for a very long period of time.

Saab-2000 AEW&C is not a system to be used in on-going fight in Federally Administrated Tribal Areas (FATA). It is an India-centric system. The long-range, high-endurance and deep radar coverage capability of Saab-2000 AEW&C can challenge India&#8217;s air superiority in the region. This aircraft is a part of Command, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence (C4I) network centric system of PAF. For India, achieving air-superiority without getting the best of such air surveillance systems is not possible. Air battles of today and future will not entirely rely on well-equipped fighter units penetrating enemy air space. The network centric system of war, which includes AEW&C systems sharing battlefield information with fighter units, ground units and battleships will form the order of battle. Now, AEW&C systems are not much of a threat for militants. The question to ponder upon is: are the terrorists attacking Pakistan&#8217;s AEW&C and surveillance systems at the behest of another country? This takes state sponsoring of terrorism at a whole new level. It is a manifestation of sub-conventional warfare. What would Pakistani decision-makers do to counter this strategic nightmare? My sense is that they will have to go to whatever limits they consider essential, in their threat perception.

To address these challenges, Pakistani armed forces have to beef up the security of its military installations. Particularly, all those bases with force multiplier systems and air-surveillance systems should be given extra security. All those military bases with residential areas in their outskirts need to be monitored on routinely basis. One must complement the Air Force for a job very well done, as there is no room for complacency. In the present on-going security situation we cannot be relaxed at any given time. Multi-layered security should be made possible in all areas of bases&#8230;One thing is for sure, the attackers don&#8217;t use the front door anymore.
God bless Pakistan. Amen

_A slightly different version of this article was published in The Express Tribune, August 19, 2012._

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## Najam Khan

So foolish post by Mastan Khan...please wakeup from your dream world where everything you are assume happens. 

The information I have gathered from some "men in blue" is that before Ramadan *Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI)* was conducted in Minhas. Based on the Intel reports, this time theme was not a traditional air-strike rather a terrorist attack..similar to PNS Mehran.

*Each and every person of the base participated in the Exercise, even PAC hospital (situated there) took part. The operational readiness level achieved by this recent ORI and bravery of Sepoy were the two main reasons why PAF was successful in this operation.*

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## SQ8

Najam Khan said:


> So foolish post by Mastan Khan...please wakeup from your dream world where* everything you are assume happens. *
> 
> The information I have gathered from some "men in blue" is that before Ramadan *Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI)* was conducted in Minhas. Based on the Intel reports, this time theme was not a traditional air-strike rather a terrorist attack..similar to PNS Mehran.
> 
> *Each and every person of the base participated in the Exercise, even PAC hospital (situated there) took part. The operational readiness level achieved by this recent ORI and bravery of Sepoy were the two main reasons why PAF was successful in this operation.*



Typical Pakistani mentality.. what I say is right.. the rest are all wrong.
Wait.. that doesn't sound right at all 

The fact that the whole security response worked like clockwork.. and that the operational commanders had eyes in the air(and from another level as well  ) is testament to the improvement made since Mehran.

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## khail007

Vinod2070 said:


> It may be TTP or any of the hundreds of others that roam your streets. It is still your own mess.



Yes, your are right, but the mess (TTP) is still alive due to their artries which have leads to someone who is supplying them with vital logistics.

Some nations very fond of fabricating '*proof*' and tried to blame Pakistan for everything.
When same question fielded about TTP then those '*knowledgeables*' suddenly becomes mute...


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## Bratva

Najam Khan said:


> So foolish post by Mastan Khan...please wakeup from your dream world where everything you are assume happens.
> 
> The information I have gathered from some "men in blue" is that before Ramadan *Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI)* was conducted in Minhas. Based on the Intel reports, this time theme was not a traditional air-strike rather a terrorist attack..similar to PNS Mehran.
> 
> *Each and every person of the base participated in the Exercise, even PAC hospital (situated there) took part. The operational readiness level achieved by this recent ORI and bravery of Sepoy were the two main reasons why PAF was successful in this operation.*



Najam Bhai,,, App To Purani Indian Films may anay walay Hero lagtay ho kasam say. Express Tribune wali PIC give that feeling

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## Imran Khan

mafiya said:


> Najam Bhai,,, App To Purani Indian Films may anay walay Hero lagtay ho kasam say. Express Tribune wali PIC give that feeling



nhi yaar i liked him he look modern gentleman


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## iPhone

XYON said:


> What a fcuking dumb response!!
> 
> Preparedness is to DENY entry to an intruder! Of Course the element of surprise is with the TTP as no one on the base has any perimeter surveillance to even raise an alarm of these thugs surveying the area, burying the cache of arms, digging them out to carry out the mission. Alarm was only raised when TTP terrorists breached the outer perimeter and penetrated deep into the base just like PNS Mehran incident. The base commander is DIRECTLY responsible for the security of the base. He FAILED Miserably in his assigned job irrespective if he lead form the front or the rear!! The death of the base commander would not have raised the moral of the base as this is NOT and INFANTRY fighting unit engaged face-to-face with the TTP guerrillas in Waziristan. It would have raised hue and cry from the rest of the country and everyone would have thought that it is a piece of cake to walk into a base and shoot the Commander. Your vision above is a 'Tonga Horse' view only seeing what is in front and not aware of the reality around! The reason Mastan Khan has understood and appreciated the analysis is because it gives a realistic approach to the situation and not the usual Fauji 'ALLAH HO AKBAR WE WON AND WE HAVE DEFEATED THE ENEMY'!! YADA YADA YADA!!



Thank you for your kind words. Your icompetence along with your cowardice is quite clear as you swear and belittle every member that disagrees with you.

If there are more leaders like you within our ranks then god help the poor soldiers who are serving under the likes of you.

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## Bratva

iPhone said:


> Thank you for your kind words. Your icompetence along with your cowardice is quite clear as you swear and belittle every member that disagrees with you.
> 
> If there are more leaders like you within our ranks then god help the poor soldiers who are serving under the likes of you.



He is inspired from Kamran Shafi


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## sur

Why Blackwater is behind suicide bombings in Pakistan. - YouTube

=
=
=
(Watch all 3 parts of following.)
*Guantanamo bay is one of many such breading grounds for terrorist...*
After Psychoanalysis, US picks up ppl who can be good terrorists & then implant them accordingly ...

http://youtu.be/0lrbeUK0lI0

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## Irfan Baloch

Najam Khan said:


> So foolish post by Mastan Khan...please wakeup from your dream world where everything you are assume happens.
> 
> The information I have gathered from some "men in blue" is that before Ramadan *Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI)* was conducted in Minhas. Based on the Intel reports, this time theme was not a traditional air-strike rather a terrorist attack..similar to PNS Mehran.
> 
> *Each and every person of the base participated in the Exercise, even PAC hospital (situated there) took part. The operational readiness level achieved by this recent ORI and bravery of Sepoy were the two main reasons why PAF was successful in this operation.*





MK has been very harsh in his criticism and has made some comments based on assumptions. its an extreme point of view and I have no problem with that.

what I have problem with is,

these so called "insiders" must keep their mouths shut who are constantly feeding the rumour mills. I am sure people will be talking on other social media websites as well, some of them will be fabrications and lies that they know someone in the base but there is a big chance that "someone" in the base will be having a hard chance to contain it to himself and get a little fame and self importance while the news is hot. so the possible failure here is debrief of the civilian and military personnel working at the base.

the other potential blunder was that the commander bringing himself in the harms way and getting shot as well. had the bullets hit him in some vital parts of his body then that would have been a disaster and a bonus jackpot for the TTP. 
I don&#8217;t agree with Mastan&#8217;s claim that he joined in the fight because of lack of security personal or to save his 50+ hide for the possible incompetence and weakness in the base security because even that action wouldn&#8217;t have saved him if any of that allegations are true. But if that IS the case and somehow commodore Azam managed to Bull the PAF top brass by taking a bullet on the arm then such leadership doesn&#8217;t deserve to exist on the planet. I simply don&#8217;t buy it, commodore acted out of panic because his Naval colleague acted like a complete yellow bellied chicken shite during the Mehran base attack. 

pre-empting such attacks maybe too much to ask and neutralizing these terrorists in their bases and hideouts might be too controversial because we are still suffering the blowback from Lal masjid operation.

Terrorists have the initiative and they have the choice, they have the sympathisers and insiders as well. Thanks to our legal system we have let go hundreds of sworn terrorists. For the past 4 years we only legislated to safeguard corruption or bypass the court rulings but didn&#8217;t bother with amendments in terror laws.

So what we can actually do is wait for the next attack and maybe use some unconventional weapons, I really don&#8217;t want to spell them out but will invite the military planners to have a look at the different methods used by special forces across the globe. The equipment, methods and weapons are not hard to come by and we have some of them already. Special forces already think outside the box and thinks as the enemy thinks so I hope for the sake of the country that they don&#8217;t just rely on assault rifles for now and use what other stuff they have at hand. I chose not to disclose it just in case TTP decides to use it instead of our response force.



iPhone said:


> A leader leading his troops into battlefield himself and putting himself in front is the most courageous and battleworthy thing ever. A normal soldier becomes superhuman all of a sudden knowing his commander is right there with him, fighting and facing the barrage of bullets and bombs with his soldiers.
> .



sorry to disagree but this base commander was stupid to present himself on a platter to the TTP as a bonus. your analogy doesnt apply here. this was a gorilla attack. looking at the waist line and his age I dont think he would have managed more than 50 steps and got shot by a stray bullet. mind you, this is just my personal point of view and you have every right to disagree.
I am not insulting the commander, I am just peed off with him for being a jerk and putting himself in the firing line and giving TTP another trophy.


I do salute the fallen soldiers though who challenged and took out a few terrorists and bought time for the special response team to arrive and confine the terrorists

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## TAC

Absolutely amazing analysis by some. In the same post the Naval base comander at Mehran is called a yellow bellied coward (for not leading from the front) AND in the same breath - the Minhas base commander is told that he has no right to exist on the planet -- because he did lead from the front. So what would you have the base comander of the next attacked base do?? Arrest all the villagers around his base well in advance and burn the villages down?? Command from the control room and get struck down as a coward?? Go lead his men in defending his base and get called an idiot for nearly giving the enemy a great prize?? 

The Minhas base commander showed that he will happily give up his life to defend his base - and when he showed this every other man under his command would feel obliged / honour bound to do the same. How many soldiers will contemplate falling back if their commander is fighting in front of them? It was this level of bravery and devotion to duty from everyone - from the commander at the top to the 20 year old sentry at at the bottom which averted disaster for Pakistan and PAF on 17th Aug 2012.

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## Hyperion

Irfan Baloch said:


> *I really don&#8217;t want to spell them out* but will invite the military planners to have a look at the different methods used by special forces across the globe. The equipment, methods and weapons are not hard to come by and we have some of them already. Special forces already think outside the box and thinks as the enemy thinks so I hope for the sake of the country that they don&#8217;t just rely on assault rifles for now and use what other stuff they have at hand. *I chose not to disclose it just in case TTP decides to use it instead of our response force.*



IB, I do agree with you about using the "non-standard" platforms against the TTP & Co. However, time and again, I come across this assumption that the enemy is stupid and we shouldn't strengthen their hand by mentioning 'stuff' here.

My take is:

* Enemy is pretty smart, I mean other than the foot soldiers, they have some seriously intelligent people advising them.
* They can create modular strategies and evolve on the go.
* They in *all probability* are privy to *insider tips*
* They certainly have access to *modern weapons* and *tactics* that we so wishfully think shouldn't have access to.

We need specialized units at par or better than the Brazilian and Mexican _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ with full *unconditional* backing of all branches of the armed forces and full immunity from the judicial mumbo jumbo to succeed.

In short, we should stop thinking of the enemy as naive and stupid. This is our greatest mistake. As long as we think that they are *just* a rag tag bunch of loonies, we will prepare accordingly

*First and foremost, we need to clear our *threat perception* of the enemy. Else we're doomed, even before we begin!*

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## Imran Khan

Hyperion said:


> IB, I do agree with you about using the "non-standard" platforms against the TTP & Co. However, time and again, I come across this assumption that the enemy is stupid and we shouldn't strengthen their hand by mentioning 'stuff' here.
> 
> My take is:
> 
> * Enemy is pretty smart, I mean other than the foot soldiers, they have some seriously intelligent people advising them.
> * They can create modular strategies and evolve on the go.
> * They in *all probability* are privy to *insider tips*
> * They certainly have access to *modern weapons* and *tactics* that we so wishfully think shouldn't have access to.
> 
> We need specialized units at par or better than the Brazilian and Mexican _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ with full *unconditional* backing of all branches of the armed forces and full immunity from the judicial mumbo jumbo to succeed.
> 
> In short, we should stop thinking of the enemy as naive and stupid. This is our greatest mistake. As long as we think that they are *just* a rag tag bunch of loonies, we will prepare accordingly
> 
> *First and foremost, we need to clear our *threat perception* of the enemy. Else we're doomed, even before we begin!*



and their next target will be ZDK-03 which is stupidity of us parked at masroor air base in open air

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## iPhone

Irfan Baloch said:


> pre-empting such attacks maybe too much to ask and neutralizing these terrorists in their bases and hideouts might be too controversial because we are still suffering the blowback from Lal masjid operation.
> 
> Terrorists have the initiative and they have the choice, they have the sympathisers and insiders as well. Thanks to our legal system we have let go hundreds of sworn terrorists. For the past 4 years we only legislated to safeguard corruption or bypass the court rulings but didn&#8217;t bother with amendments in terror laws.
> 
> So what we can actually do is wait for the next attack and maybe use some unconventional weapons, I really don&#8217;t want to spell them out but will invite the military planners to have a look at the different methods used by special forces across the globe. The equipment, methods and weapons are not hard to come by and we have some of them already. Special forces already think outside the box and thinks as the enemy thinks so I hope for the sake of the country that they don&#8217;t just rely on assault rifles for now and use what other stuff they have at hand. I chose not to disclose it just in case TTP decides to use it instead of our response



Sir, I respectfully disagree with you have written here and this seems to be the mentality of the armed forces, too. That We can't take action directly due to certain Social and religious reasons.

Sir, have you heard the saying, nipping it in the bud? I'm sure you have. This is what needs to be do e here. If you continue to cater to the terrorist for the reasons you have listed then we are doomed. The country is doomed, 

They attacked the army headquarter, they moved on to the Navy, inflicted heavy losses and today it's the airforce. We are not even fully sure of the extent of damage they have caused here.

If things continue this way and no action is taken against them then I can guarantee you the next attack will be at a secret nuclear facility. The army must come out of this thinking that they have to appease Asma Jahngir likes and take careful measures.

You don't win wars that way. You gots to go all out. Nip it in the bud. Destroy them right where they stand. No court proceedings, no arrests. Military justice, ya hum nehi ya woh nehi. Forget about what people are going to say, people talk, that's what they do, but theyll move on.

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## Fieldmarshal

TAC said:


> Absolutely amazing analysis by some. In the same post the Naval base comander at Mehran is called a yellow bellied coward (for not leading from the front) AND in the same breath - the Minhas base commander is told that he has no right to exist on the planet -- because he did lead from the front. So what would you have the base comander of the next attacked base do?? Arrest all the villagers around his base well in advance and burn the villages down?? Command from the control room and get struck down as a coward?? Go lead his men in defending his base and get called an idiot for nearly giving the enemy a great prize??
> 
> The Minhas base commander showed that he will happily give up his life to defend his base - and when he showed this every other man under his command would feel obliged / honour bound to do the same. How many soldiers will contemplate falling back if their commander is fighting in front of them? It was this level of bravery and devotion to duty from everyone - from the commander at the top to the 20 year old sentry at at the bottom which averted disaster for Pakistan and PAF on 17th Aug 2012.



right on TAC a true leader leads from the front. it is cowards who pull up rank and hide behind the foot soldiers. u only win battles by exhibiting courage, bravery and leadership while cowards bring shame, dishonor and loss

All the medals ever awarded across the globe are awarded for courage, bravery and leadership under difficult circumstances/under fire. all such people are remembered for this and in some cases have been remembered for centuries.
no one remembers cowards, while not least in positive terms.
no one lives forever and most die on a bed.

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## Safriz

This attack was most probably conducted on the lines of Irish republican Army...

9 men with heavy weapons trespassing populated villages on the night when most or many villagers were awake isn't possible,and couldn't have gone unnoticed....
The Attackers (I am using the word Attackers not terrorists) must have been "Dumping" weapons and equipment near the wall of the base over extended period of time..Same way as IRA used to do..They never had one big movement of men and ammunition at single time..Instead they did it bit by bit and that way avoided raising suspicion.
Say a random guy strolling in the fields or hills outside the base with half a part of RPG under his shawl or bean bag and then dumping it at a pre agreed and well hidden point....wont raise any suspicion and even if caught wont be much of a loss for the would be Attackers,as they lost one man and half an RPG..
Like that over a few weeks or even months large amount of munition,wire cutting tools and ladders which were transported bit by bit and the assembled on the night of attack...

So i am not sure about inside help...
But there looks like a lot of "Outside help" from local area


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## Safriz

The red spot is where "Presumably" the awacs were parked...How many check posts..or what looks like check posts on Gmaps you can count surrounding it?


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## OrionHunter

*



The question to ponder upon is: are the terrorists attacking Pakistans AEW&C and surveillance systems at the behest of another country?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/202635-attack-paf-base-minhas-156.html#ixzz23xd6Kkfa

Click to expand...

*The usual conspiracy theories! The RPG as per reports was aimed in a general direction where some aircraft were parked from outside the second 'perimeter'. It is just coincidence that the projectile hit the Saab-2000 AEW&C.


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## MastanKhan

khail007 said:


> Sir, may be your opinion is fit for modern day tactics and warfare (which most probably a westernized style), but in older times the leader not only planning but themselves successfully involved in battles. For proof, I can honourably mention the name of Hazrat Khalid Bin Waleed (Razi Allah Unho), who got countless battle wounds on his body.



How about Salah ud din Ayubi---. But this is not a battle---it is supposedly a minor skirmish with 8 insurgents----.

You people need to be ashamed and embarrassed about this issue---but you want to thump your chest at the failure---.



Peregrine said:


> If you remember Rawalpindi parade lane incident, then you would know of Maj general Bilal, who had grabbed one of the terrorists and in the process of struggling with terrorists he was killed. So now if we go by your theory, he should have fled the scene like general yousaf and shouldn't have saved lives of so many people there including children. As for Kamra attack, it wasn't a gladiators arena that the base commander should have enjoyed his men being killed by terrorists, while he watched all that from his safe office. Did it occur to you that his actions may have saved lives of many soldiers there? Just because he was senior to all those fighting terrorists so he shouldn't have joined them, WOW very sensitive logic! When you are in a battle field there are no seniors or juniors, just your men and enemy.



My Boy,

It is okay to argue with me---and you can come ut swinging as well---I don't mind---because you are my kids---if you don't learn from me and don't try it on me---who else would you try it on.

If the general had a side arm---he did not need to have struggled with the terrorist---he did not understand the threat level and paid the price with his life---.

Now---your analysis of my post is absolutely pathetic----bases have command and control centers---the base comander is required to stay in charge---to guide the retaliation----.

You kids have no clue what I am talking about---I feel sorry for the education that you have gotten about these issues---your perception of the issue is very tragic----I feel ashamed at your lack of knowledge and understanding---.

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## Mercenary

Why weren't these AWACS kept in Hardened Bunkers?

Why are they left in the open to be exposed like this?

If we ever go to war, these planes will be sitting ducks to a missile bombardment or aerial attack without shelter.

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## Nishan_101

sur said:


> Why Blackwater is behind suicide bombings in Pakistan. - YouTube
> 
> =
> =
> =
> (Watch all 3 parts of following.)
> *Guantanamo bay is one of many such breading grounds for terrorist...*
> After Psychoanalysis, US picks up ppl who can be good terrorists & then implant them accordingly ...
> 
> Satanism and Pedophilia Crimes of The Global Elite with Director Sean Stone 1/3 - YouTube


 
This is what I want to say since all these attacks that other agencies are involved in it and we should have upgrade our bases at for most.


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## MastanKhan

Asim Aquil said:


> It does not mean that - even PNS Mehran attack wasn't very close to losing a fight. It just shows one thing - the commander led from the front.
> 
> 
> 
> So who said LTs and 2LTs didn't part-take in the fight?
> 
> 
> 
> He had three check posts in place, which were breached but the base was not breached. The problem does not lie with the base commander which serves 2-3 years on this post at most. The problem lies in the overall security policy of the country. The Pind Makkhan population did not grow right up to Kamra during his tenure. This sort of massive population re-arrangement away from security zones is the responsibility of the government.
> 
> 
> There is appreciation to be given to the person who runs towards the sound of gun fire.
> 
> 
> We all know the competence of the people jinki pant gheeli hojati hai on the sound of a fight. So please, the guy took a bullet for this country and then some more, whatever he stinks off, the foul smell of your words are drowning it.
> 
> I can't believe the drawing room experts who give such absolute statements jese uss pata nahi security and strategy ki Quran and Hadith unho ne hi likhi ho.



Hi,

You know why the nation is a loser---because of thinking like this----you fail and then you want to justify the failure---. A base commander belongs in the command and control room of he base to take charge of the situation---give directives---ask for assistance and the word you people don't know----DESIGNATE AUTHORITY----.

See---I keep forgetting my roots---. This ideology of officer leading from the front keeps the rankers subjugated. Truthfully---in the end---the rankers feel impotent without their officers even though the rankers are as capable a warrior as there maybe---the sepoy who laid his life for the cause---what a warrior---.

You men praise those of doing the job of 10 people---it is a terrible pakistani indian mindset---. Successful businesses and conglomerates train each individual to do their jobs---indeed tghe leasders amongst them will carry the show----but you don't need the base commander to lead when there are 8 insurgents attacking---.

As I stated----the things must be close to terrible---the base commander saw his carreer going down the drain for not doing enoug prior to the attack---he decided to go down fighting---.

And about those lt's and 2nd lts---thing---I keep telling you people----when you read my post and your eyes start seeing red and the blood starts to boil---please step back and read it again---I bet you---you will find it different that what you originally thought---it is just a mind game.

ASIM -------it is you people's choice---you can listen and learn from me if you chose to and I guarantee if enough of you did---you will see a surprising change in you, in your perception about certain things---and if you don't---the rock is still there for you guys---you can keep banging your head against it---it ain't going anywhere---about you guys head---I can't say much about it.

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## Masterio92

/\/\/\

Well said Mastan Sahib,

The involvement of a base commander in fire fight and taking a role what sentry or guards suppose to take, itself point to weak security plan and small size of personnel deployed etc.

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## indiatester

Safriz said:


> This attack was most probably conducted on the lines of Irish republican Army...
> 
> 9 men with heavy weapons trespassing populated villages on the night when most or many villagers were awake isn't possible,and couldn't have gone unnoticed....
> The Attackers (I am using the word Attackers not terrorists) must have been "Dumping" weapons and equipment near the wall of the base over extended period of time..Same way as IRA used to do..They never had one big movement of men and ammunition at single time..Instead they did it bit by bit and that way avoided raising suspicion.
> Say a random guy strolling in the fields or hills outside the base with half a part of RPG under his shawl or bean bag and then dumping it at a pre agreed and well hidden point....wont raise any suspicion and even if caught wont be much of a loss for the would be Attackers,as they lost one man and half an RPG..
> Like that over a few weeks or even months large amount of munition,wire cutting tools and ladders which were transported bit by bit and the assembled on the night of attack...
> 
> So i am not sure about inside help...
> But there looks like a lot of "Outside help" from local area


I have one question that has not been answered in this thread. Regardless of whether the terrorists intended to target the AWACS or not, since the time of attack, why were these important assets not "taken away". I mean at the first sign of trouble, should the have not flown off the base and be safe from a ground attack? Agreed it is fraught with danger in itself with any shoulder fired missiles, but in the case of an big assault by an enemy, would these not be sitting ducks?
Whats the use of force multipliers if they can be taken out at bases by teams of 9-10 terrorists. If there was a bigger team say 20 terrorists? would the outcome have been different. What if they carried any shoulder fired missiles?


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## MastanKhan

Najam Khan said:


> So foolish post by Mastan Khan...please wakeup from your dream world where everything you are assume happens.
> 
> The information I have gathered from some "men in blue" is that before Ramadan *Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI)* was conducted in Minhas. Based on the Intel reports, this time theme was not a traditional air-strike rather a terrorist attack..similar to PNS Mehran.
> 
> *Each and every person of the base participated in the Exercise, even PAC hospital (situated there) took part. The operational readiness level achieved by this recent ORI and bravery of Sepoy were the two main reasons why PAF was successful in this operation.*


3

Kid,

My boy---I don't have a problem waking up---the problems is---are you ready to wake up and see the real world----. It is a part of my job---to learn and understand new issues---to think on my feet---to stop on a dime and change directions---to change directions in mid stride---I am programmed to do that in my every day routine---are you---. 

I may not be successful many a times---but I try----. Are you game to to new ideas---are you game to leaving your secured surroundings and looking at things thropugh a different looking glass.


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## MastanKhan

indiatester said:


> I have one question that has not been answered in this thread. Regardless of whether the terrorists intended to target the AWACS or not, since the time of attack, why were these important assets not "taken away". I mean at the first sign of trouble, should the have not flown off the base and be safe from a ground attack? Agreed it is fraught with danger in itself with any shoulder fired missiles, but in the case of an big assault by an enemy, would these not be sitting ducks?
> Whats the use of force multipliers if they can be taken out at bases by teams of 9-10 terrorists. If there was a bigger team say 20 terrorists? would the outcome have been different. What if they carried any shoulder fired missiles?



Hi,

You are so right---what if there were 20 terrorists----seems like they fcked up this time---if there were 20 of them---the paf base would be a toast---and thank you for bringing that out----.

Irfan---Asim---Njam---what iif there were 20 of them---what would have happened then.

It is being stated that the sepoy who died---gave them 10--20 minutes time to get together to respond---has any body caught onto that---10 minutes in a fire fight is a life time---20 minutes is an eternity---.

What that means---is that there was absolutely no preparation to counter the strike---. My god----how pathtic---you people are hounding on me---it is you whom you should be hounding at---you specially Asim---and you too Najam---other kids---hehnnnn---you are too innocnet.

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## TalibanSwatter

DAWN

THURSDAY&#8217;S attack on the airbase in Kamra shows that terrorist groups in Pakistan have developed a level of resilience that has survived the killing of several high-profile leaders.

It is for another day to consider why this attack failed where others have caused considerable material damage to security forces.

After the killings of Ilyas Kashmiri, a self-styled expert in multilayered terrorist attacks, Qari Hussain, who was known as ustadul fidayeen (master of suicide bombers), Badar Mansoor, chief of Al Qaeda&#8217;s operational network in Pakistan, and Abu Laith al-Libi, strategic mastermind of Al Qaeda in the country, it was presumed that the terrorists were losing their destructive edge.

There were indications that they would need time to recover from these losses. Terrorist attacks decreased by 46 per cent in the first half of the year compared to the same period in 2011.

At the same time, a change in the nature of attacks reflected that the terrorists were under some pressure or lacked human resources. Their reliance on target killings grew. There was a clear decline in the number of suicide attacks in the first quarter of 2012: 13 attacks occurred during that period, a 65 per cent drop over the same period in 2011.

These factors provided reason to believe that the space for terrorists in Pakistan&#8217;s tribal areas was shrinking amid the ongoing military campaign and US drone strikes against them.

The Taliban appear to have quickly realised that the erosion of high-value resources could lead to the annihilation of their movement. First, they combined their scattered forces and formed a shura-i-murakeba to resolve their internal disputes.

Al Qaeda took the initiative and brokered an alliance among the Haqqanis, the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and militant groups led by Hafiz Gul Bahadur and Mullah Nazir.

The shura also resolved differences between TTP head Hakeemullah Mehsud and his deputy, Waliur Rehman. Members of the shura-i-murakeba agreed to cease attacks against Pakistani security forces and focus their attention on Nato forces in Afghanistan.

After this alliance came about, the strike on the airbase in Kamra is a major assault aimed perhaps at impressing upon the people and the military that these terrorist groups still have the capability to launch substantial operations against high-profile installations.

In order to identify the true potential of the threat they pose, it is important to consider how they managed to evolve a recovery mechanism after heavy losses.

As far as the objective and selection of the target is concerned, it was obvious that they wanted to convey they could target and breach the military&#8217;s defences and, perhaps more importantly, make these seem vulnerable. As TTP spokesman Ihsanullah Ihsan claimed, they will continue to attack security installations &#8220;until the establishment of a true Islamic state in Pakistan&#8221;.

The pattern indicated that Al Qaeda was involved in the attack at a certain level just as Saiful Adil, Al Qaeda&#8217;s strategic mastermind, had allegedly been involved in the GHQ and Mehran naval base attacks along with Ilyas Kashmiri.

The question is, in the absence of key masterminds, how was the attack managed and by whom?

Initial investigation has focused on, among others, Adnan Rasheed, a former employee of the air force who was sentenced to death for his role in an attempt to assassinate Gen Pervez Musharraf. He was among those who escaped from Bannu jail in April this year.

It is possible that Rasheed was part of the planning team, as he could be aware of details about security at the airbase and could have sympathisers inside the base, but it is yet to be established if he could have managed a high-profile attack. If that is the case, some to follow in Ilyas Kashmiri&#8217;s mould may be available to the terrorists. An even more important question is the identity of the strategic mind behind the attack, especially when al-Libi has been killed.

Anyone including Farman Ali Shinwari, successor of Badar Mansoor as Al Qaeda&#8217;s operational chief in Pakistan, Ustad Farooq, head of the so-called Punjabi Taliban, Abdul Shakoor al-Turkistani, a powerful Al Qaeda leader, Saiful Adil, who operates from Iran, or Hakeemullah Mehsud could have been the mastermind.

Although the terrorists failed to show the level of destructive skill in the Kamra attack that they did under Kashmiri&#8217;s supervision in the Mehran base, GHQ and Lahore police academy attacks, the emerging pattern reflects that they will continue to try.

Besides collaborative operations, the terrorist groups are also looking for a replacement for Qari Hussain, and the Darra Adam Khel Taliban have reportedly taken responsibility for filling this void.

The unity among terrorist groups is not the only source of their strength. They also gain strength from fragmentation and confusion over the war against terrorism among the security, political and civil society leaderships in Pakistan.

The spread and reach of terrorists has become a critical challenge for the state, and yet ambiguity on the issue of terrorism pervades society. The collective mindset reflects a state of out-and-out denial.

Although the army chief&#8217;s speech on Independence Day was encouraging, as he stressed clarity on the issue of extremism and terrorism, the political leadership has not shown commensurate enthusiasm.

Ahead of the general elections, political parties do not appear to be ready to take any clear stance because of the uncertainty over the issue and its external linkages. Parties are staying on the sidelines despite a dire need for a national security policy that security experts have been crying themselves hoarse about for many years.

In order to avoid external and regional caveats, the security and political leadership ought to at least be able to agree on an internal security paradigm and mechanism that should be based on close vigilance and appropriate response in view of the threat perception.


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## deckingraj

^^^^^^^^^^^
I am in agreement with Mastan Khan here....Look the point is really simple....There is a reason that general's don't actually fight in the war and the reason is simple....they are there to handle the strategy part of it(and much more)....Similarly in this incident commander is there to plan about how to deal with insurgents and not fight them....Commander actually taking arms in his hands should have been the last resort not the first one....lastly irrespective of how much heroics he showed, he still failed in performing his duty and is subjected to court martial....

P.S : Think from this perspective...to defeat terrorist who are Pakistani forces/American forces after??? Leaders or just the cadets??

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## HAIDER

*A good news to share.*

PAF team said


> *Two mobile phones, a Blackberry and Nokia X 2 each, were recovered from the Minhas Base attack incident site, which were in the use of terrorists. The cell phones have been handed to an intelligence agency to get the call records, officials said. *
> PAF disowns Malik


And also ask Rahman Malik to shut up ..

@Mastan I am totally agree, It was two soldier who played vital role in this situation. One was attentive in wireless room and second the martyr hero , who keep these guys engage few minutes. Which was more then enough to call special force.

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## LiberalAtheist

wonder how 9 TTP members were able to get past PAF security, if they cannot even protect there own military installations how can they protect anything else from these swine?


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## Stealth

I am thinking....

If they were 20 - terrorist thn what will happen?

LOL

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## Kompromat

danger007 said:


> hijacked PAF jet??/ didn't understand.... but their will be proud for giving birth to brave soldiers.....



Bengali instructor hijacked the trainer T-33 air craft and wanted to go to India , he failed because he hijacked the wrong pilot Rashid Minhas , he crashed the air craft before it could enter Indian air space. Both died , one went down as a traitor in the dustbin of history , second was hailed as a hero , the only Nishan -e- Haider winning member of PAF.

Rashid Minhas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## HAIDER

Pakistan has no anti terrorist law. Our judiciary and parliament is bunch of chicken. I would say Pak judiciary is biggest terrorist ,who let go over 900 proven terrorist arrested by Pak army and hand over to police and our judges let them go.

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## Kompromat

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You young pakistanis need to learn---*when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.
> *
> 
> ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.
> 
> The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.
> 
> Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.
> 
> The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.





I don't know about you and those who thanked your cynical & derogatory post towards PAF. As far as i am concerned its called "leading by the example from the front" , it means PAF Generals are not obese , alcohol drinking , disco going morons as many lunatics project on the board. It means that the general had pure milk running through his vain and his father had balls of steel , it means he proved the worth of his training by leading from the front and taking a bullet. 

Thats what i think , hit me back & riddle me that !

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## MastanKhan

Hi,

The more I look into this issue without emotion and prejudice---the more I lean towards thinking that there was minimal security at the base---the terrorist were unlucky that they got tracked by a vigilant young son of the soil who ended up stopping a catastrophe---.

When it takes 10 minutes for the security to show up---it means that there was no security---that meant that the base commander was the security detail.

You young and old pakistanis---don't see red---don't get mad at me---don't raise your blood pressure---calm down and think---a base has terror alert---still there is one soldier engaging the culprits---for around 10 plus minutes---think reasonable---you can lie to yourself too---that is okay too---because it is out of habbit and I understand that---but if you step out of your shadow for a moment and look at things with a honest mind---you would begin to realize that you have been deceived by the ones that you trusted the most---.

For 8 terrorists in the open---why was there a need for special forces to come to the rescue---why could the base security detail not take them out---only if the base had any security---they would have.

The truth is---there was nothing called as security---juts barely guard duty---a 20 years old soldier---awake at his job---.

Asim---Najam---Irfan---when you people learn to be honest with your analysis against the very people you cherish and look upto---that is the time you will begin to see a change in your nation---otherwise---you are there---the nation is there---rolling in dirt somewhere---.

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## IceCold

So for all the rumors, the SAAB is indeed being damaged? has any being destroyed as well like the stupid loose cannon media is stating?


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## Markus

Was any aircraft destroyed in attack ?


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## MastanKhan

Aeronaut said:


> I don't know about you and those who thanked your cynical & derogatory post towards PAF. As far as i am concerned its called "leading by the example from the front" , it means PAF Generals are not obese , alcohol drinking , disco going morons as many lunatics project on the board. It means that the general had pure milk running through his vain and his father had balls of steel , it means he proved the worth of his training by leading from the front and taking a bullet.
> 
> Thats what i think , hit me back & riddle me that !



Hi,

No---it is not your fault----you still thinking like an innocent---you have very poor training if there is any---you still have not learnt to think on your own---you still don't have the ability to think on your own---it is due the our cultural heritage and uprbrining where young men and women are not aloowed to think oput of the box----.

Read my posts kid read my posts---. When you become the base commander 30 years from now and are facing similiar issues---just remember my words---they will carry you through hard times---.


But I like you so far---if you bang your head against me---you might take back a piece of me stuck to your head---and when it is next to your head---guess what---there is only one place it can go---get into your head---. Guess what---it is a win win situation for you and for me---.

Now as for the general---a little brains would have been an icing on the cake.

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## Tehmasib

shaheedon ki zammen hay yeh jisy PAKISTAN khety hain
yeh bajar ho kr b buzdil payda ni krti


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## iPhone

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You are so right---what if there were 20 terrorists----seems like the fcked up this time---if there were 20 of them---the paf base would be a toast---and thank you for bringing that out----.
> 
> Irfan---Asim---Njam---what iif there were 20 of them---what would have happened then.
> 
> It is being stated that the sepoy who died---gave them 10--20 minutes time to get together to respond---has any body caught onto that---10 minutes in a fire fight is a life time---20 minutes is an eternity---.
> 
> What that means---is that there was absolutely no preparation to counter the strike---. My god----how pathtic---you people are hounding on me---it is you whom you should be hounding at---you specially Asim---and you too Najam---other kids---hehnnnn---you are too innocnet.



The way things are going in the military, I don't think they've even consider such an attack happening. Theyre thinking all attacks will consist of 5-10 gurealla style.

And I'm sure ttp is planning something more sinister right now. Forget 20 terrorists what if it's 50 or a hundred? Like how when they attacked Pak check posts in fata, in big numbers, over came the soldiers, captured them and cut their heads off.

And don't say50-100 is too big a number, they'll be spotted. We have seen the efficiency of the police, who has failed to intercept them beforehand time and again and terrorist approached the gates of their target.

Once they begin that kind of attack in such numbers, you can bet your bases will be done for. And these fools will keep on thinking if they should attack them in there hideouts or not.

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## XYON

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The more I look into this issue without emotion and prejudice---the more I lean towards thinking that there was minimal security at the base---the terrorist were unlucky that they got tracked by a vigilant young son of the soil who ended up stopping a catastrophe---.
> 
> When it takes 10 minutes for the security to show up---it means that there was no security---that meant that the base commander was the security detail.
> 
> You young and old pakistanis---don't see red---don't get mad at me---don't raise your blood pressure---calm down and think---a base has terror alert---still there is one soldier engaging the culprits---for around 10 plus minutes---think reasonable---you can lie to yourself too---that is okay too---because it is out of habbit and I understand that---but if you step out of your shadow for a moment and look at things with a honest mind---you would begin to realize that you have been deceived by the ones that you trusted the most---.
> 
> For 8 terrorists in the open---why was there a need for special forces to come to the rescue---why could the base security detail not take them out---only if the base had any security---they would have.
> 
> The truth is---there was nothing called as security---juts barely guard duty---a 20 years old soldier---awake at his job---.
> 
> Asim---Najam---Irfan---when you people learn to be honest with your analysis against the very people you cherish and look upto---that is the time you will begin to see a change in your nation---otherwise---you are there---the nation is there---rolling in dirt somewhere---.



Mastan Khan ........ my worst fear is that the way it is being 'projected', Air HQ may give this Base Commander a medal and a pat on the back. Thanks to the mediocre mentality amply represented in posts of some of the jiyalas here, future commanders are going to be doomed too! You asked what is wrong with the military in Pakistan today? I say simply read the posts here that are trying to defend the actions of this criminal base commander at Minhas. 'Tunnel Vision' is a terrible disease and we see it spreading like an epidemic around us!

I sure hope that the Air HQ investigation committee works above the level of emotions and prejudice and partiality (as are being displayed in this thread by some) and serve severe punishment to those whose negligence caused this incident to happen in the first place. Without enforcement of discipline, chaos will ensue in the ranks to follow.

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## Tehmasib




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## HAIDER

But it is fact , few months ago say tv program. Where defence analyst accepted the fact that PAF has best security for its bases compare to other two forces. May its all because with new fleet of F16, US crew keep on working with PAF for ground security.


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## XYON

HAIDER said:


> But it is fact , few months ago say tv program. Where defence analyst accepted the fact that PAF has best security for its bases compare to other two forces. May its all because with new fleet of F16, US crew keep on working with PAF for ground security.



Yes we have seen that 'best security' in action that cannot even stop 9 on-foot thugs from entering the Minhas base and destroying expensive and strategic assets!!

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## Thorough Pro

What if in a future incident, initial attack is launched by a smaller decoy team far away from the actual target, and when the security teams are focussed there, a second or third major attack is launched on the actual target?

What happened to the good old watch towers with search lights, snipers and machine guns?

Why can't PAF use drones or attack helis equipped with night visin to monitr/neutralize attackers?

What happened to intelligence in the vicinity of the critical installations? 

If multiple attacks on millitary installations deep inside Pakistan are not enough, what else would make millitary high command realize that Pakkistan is at war with very schrewed, clever, skilled and determined enemy?

Why not establish red zone around all critical installations and shoot any/everyone on violation?

What security do we have on our water supply? waht if they are poisoned?

Security needs to get paranoid and heavy handed if it wants to avoid any such future incident?

Warn india and afghanistan that if their involvent is found we will retaliate with out hesitation.

**** afghan brethern, nuke the mother fuckers, they have casued us so much trouble since 1979.

Gas the TTP scumbags in their caves and mountains, what the **** are we waiting for?





MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You are so right---what if there were 20 terrorists----seems like they fcked up this time---if there were 20 of them---the paf base would be a toast---and thank you for bringing that out----.
> 
> Irfan---Asim---Njam---what iif there were 20 of them---what would have happened then.
> 
> It is being stated that the sepoy who died---gave them 10--20 minutes time to get together to respond---has any body caught onto that---10 minutes in a fire fight is a life time---20 minutes is an eternity---.
> 
> What that means---is that there was absolutely no preparation to counter the strike---. My god----how pathtic---you people are hounding on me---it is you whom you should be hounding at---you specially Asim---and you too Najam---other kids---hehnnnn---you are too innocnet.

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## Last Hope

Mastan Sahab,

Asim, Aeronaut, IB, Najam... You are all right with your views. The first post by Sir Mastan said excellent idea on the inclusion of Base Commander. But posts by others are right in their context too (except for criticism for the poster).

The most likely situation in my view is, the Base Commander knows his responsibility which includes safety of all aircraft present there. Since PAF Base Minhas at the time had Saab-2000 and IL-78 (not the mention the PAC Complex), he knes that he, his men and the base is screwed up. With experience from PNS Mehran, he immediately rushed to the scene to witness what is going on.... curiosity. 

However the things were not that bad and he decided to lead the team from within the firing range. This doesn't prove that he has taken part in the fire-fight with a weapon or not.

If I were him, I would have done the same thing. Hearing certain explosions, on a major base, sounds of firing and RPGs being fired; I would have jumped on my feet and gone to the point of engagement. Not all commanders like to stay back in safe zone and direct the operation.

There is a difference in the base commander joining mid-fight after directing (which means being out-numbered or losing onto the enemy most likely) and engaging on hearing first shots.

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## HAIDER

Last Hope said:


> Mastan Sahab,
> 
> Asim, Aeronaut, IB, Najam... You are all right with your views. The first post by Sir Mastan said excellent idea on the inclusion of Base Commander. But posts by others are right in their context too (except for criticism for the poster).
> 
> The most likely situation in my view is, the Base Commander knows his responsibility which includes safety of all aircraft present there. Since PAF Base Minhas at the time had Saab-2000 and IL-78 (not the mention the PAC Complex), he knes that he, his men and the base is screwed up. With experience from PNS Mehran, he immediately rushed to the scene to witness what is going on.... curiosity.
> 
> However the things were not that bad and he decided to lead the team from within the firing range. This doesn't prove that he has taken part in the fire-fight with a weapon or not.
> 
> If I were him, I would have done the same thing. Hearing certain explosions, on a major base, sounds of firing and RPGs being fired; I would have jumped on my feet and gone to the point of engagement. Not all commanders like to stay back in safe zone and direct the operation.
> 
> There is a difference in the base commander joining mid-fight after directing (which means being out-numbered or losing onto the enemy most likely) and engaging on hearing first shots.


Just imagine for minute, Base Commander is responsible for the security of over 2.86 Billion dollar of military assets. Only one plane receive minor damage from RPG fragments (which was later revel by PAF). But it is fact, I see our forces somehow has lack of motivation to confront these terrorist. Must have reason behind that .......economic issue,lack of willingness to confront ????

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## Kompromat

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> No---it is not your fault----you still thinking like an innocent---you have very poor training if there is any---you still have not learnt to think on your own---you still don't have the ability to think on your own---it is due the our cultural heritage and uprbrining where young men and women are not aloowed to think oput of the box----.
> 
> Read my posts kid read my posts---. When you become the base commander 30 years from now and are facing similiar issues---just remember my words---they will carry you through hard times---.
> 
> 
> But I like you so far---if you bang your head against me---you might take back a piece of me stuck to your head---and when it is next to your head---guess what---there is only one place it can go---get into your head---. Guess what---it is a win win situation for you and for me---.
> 
> Now as for the general---a little brains would have been an icing on the cake.



Thanks MK.

I am sure there were security lapses , that is typical of us Pakistanis. I do hope Mehran and Minhas served as a warning shot for the armed forces and their asset protection strategies.

We know who is after our maritime and air borne early warning assets , they should be made to pay in one way or the other.

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## rockstarIN

Thorough Pro said:


> *What if in a future incident, initial attack is launched by a smaller decoy team far away from the actual target, and when the security teams are focussed there, a second or third major attack is launched on the actual target?*What happened to the good old watch towers with search lights, snipers and machine guns?
> 
> Why can't PAF use drones or attack helis equipped with night visin to monitr/neutralize attackers?
> 
> What happened to intelligence in the vicinity of the critical installations?
> 
> If multiple attacks on millitary installations deep inside Pakistan are not enough, what else would make millitary high command realize that Pakkistan is at war with very schrewed, clever, skilled and determined enemy?
> 
> Why not establish red zone around all critical installations and shoot any/everyone on violation?
> 
> What security do we have on our water supply? waht if they are poisoned?
> 
> Security needs to get paranoid and heavy handed if it wants to avoid any such future incident?
> 
> Warn india and afghanistan that if their involvent is found we will retaliate with out hesitation.
> 
> **** afghan brethern, nuke the mother fuckers, they have casued us so much trouble since 1979.
> 
> Gas the TTP scumbags in their caves and mountains, what the **** are we waiting for?



So far I know, there is SOP that once a threat/attack is detected, the info immediately spread to all foces who is manning the vital installations and will be extra vigil. Only the RAF & the forces who were directly challenged will act against the perpetrators.


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## KRAIT

Instead of looking for foreign elements, it should be first priority that why new measures weren't taken after Mehran especially when it showed the future attacks on most valued target is possible. If you fail at one military base, then first response should be to enhance security of similar establishments. 

Secondly, is the lack of emergency protocol when ISI already issued warning which would have stopped the attack on the preliminary stage if Mehran attack was taken as subject to study and formulate such protocols. Not saying, they weren't there. Point is make changes to the new threat. 

If we look at 9/11, it changed the entire security structure especially for emergency situations. Faults are there but it has made things difficult for such attacks. Now the terrorists have to go back and make other strategy to attack.

If there was enough changes visible in security of these bases, the terrorists would have taken other approach. They didn't even change their Modus Operandi and weapons of choice. Coz once you improve things, change in strategy and weapons to be used, are considered according to new security arrangements.

I won't be surprised if another attack includes stinger missiles or other anti aircraft missiles and more sophisticated weapons.

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## XYON

*GROUNDS FOR COURT MARTIAL OF THE BASE COMMANDER PAF MINHAS* - Air Commodore Azam

1. The Base Commander is solely responsible for the Security of the Base and the protection of PAF assets on it!

2. The Base Commander did not equate this simple terrorists breach scenario (despite hard lessons from PNS Mehran and earlier attacks on Kamra) into the base security equation.

3. The Base Commander did not enhance a multi layered security system around the base especially from the point where the terrorists entered. Multi layered security ONLY exists on the entry point from GT Road whilst all other points at the base had minimum security cover.

4. At the time of the attack, the terrorists were ONLY challenged by a LONE tower security guard who responded with lethal force and laid his life in the process of doing his job valiantly. He should be given the highest honor of the land. 

5. The Base Commander neglected basic military protocol and left his duties from the Base Command and Control Center to guide the QRF on ground. He either deliberately or in the heat-of-the-moment chose to pick up arms and personally go to the front line from where if he had been killed or captured there would have been an immediate breakdown of command & control and the terrorists would have made use of the situation to inflict both physical and moral damage.

6. The Base Commander did not enhance the base security around the strategic assets despite open deceleration by the Government that Pakistan is in the state of war & hence the need for extra vigilance and physical security.

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## Kompromat



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## Thorough Pro

Hi Mastan,

Thanks for your eye opening posts on the subject. Some may find your posts to be arrogant and rude, but they are missing the real point here. With all due respect and salutations to the brave soldiers who faught back and neutralized the enemy we need to analyze the whole situation piece by ppiece and learn from our mistakes.

Despite the fact that all terrorists were killed and as stated by the PAF officials that no major damage was sustained, this was a MISERABLE FAILURE of security and who ever was responsible should be court martialled.

Regarding base commander's role, I should say it was a brave blunder. In a tank there are three people, Driver, Commander and Firer, imagine what will happen if the commander abandons his role of hunting and locking the enemy and joins the firer in firing, Millitary leaderships' job is to live in the future, to provide vision, to anticipate future, soldiers job is to live and die today. 

Base commander's job to save Kamra should have started the day first such attack was launched on any millitary installation in Pakistan, not on the night when the attack actually happened on Kamra. The fact that the attack happened and enemy succeeded in entering the base is the fist failure, regardless of the outcome. The whole purpose of the security measures is to avaoid / eliminate any such attack from ever happening and success is to neutralize the enemy outside your green zone, not in the red zone.

Second failure was the time it took for the response team to arrive and engage the enemy, it clearly shows there was no contingency response team ready to deal with the situation which shows total lack of preparedness.

Third failure was the base commander exposing himself to danger. Wars are fought both on psych and field. Victory on psych is plays a bigger role than victory in the field. how does it sound tp read "terrorists attack and kill PAF base commander in his base"?

fourth failure was the use of C130 immediately after the attack, what if there were one or two hiding away from the scene with manpads? what the heck are drones for?

Why aren't ther two or three attack helis equiped with night vision and precision fire weapons on each base, always ready to respond to such contingencies?

How much does it cost to install motion sensors around critical installations worth billions?

The most important question is have we learned anything now? apparently we did not learn any thing from Mehran.



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> No---it is not your fault----you still thinking like an innocent---you have very poor training if there is any---you still have not learnt to think on your own---you still don't have the ability to think on your own---it is due the our cultural heritage and uprbrining where young men and women are not aloowed to think oput of the box----.
> 
> Read my posts kid read my posts---. When you become the base commander 30 years from now and are facing similiar issues---just remember my words---they will carry you through hard times---.
> 
> 
> But I like you so far---if you bang your head against me---you might take back a piece of me stuck to your head---and when it is next to your head---guess what---there is only one place it can go---get into your head---. Guess what---it is a win win situation for you and for me---.
> 
> Now as for the general---a little brains would have been an icing on the cake.

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## XYON

Thorough Pro said:


> Hi Mastan,
> 
> Thanks for your eye opening posts on the subject. Some may find your posts to be arrogant and rude, but they are missing the real point here. With all due respect and salutations to the brave soldiers who faught back and neutralized the enemy we need to analyze the whole situation piece by ppiece and learn from our mistakes.
> 
> Despite the fact that all terrorists were killed and as stated by the PAF officials that no major damage was sustained, this was a MISERABLE FAILURE of security and who ever was responsible should be court martialled.
> 
> Regarding base commander's role, I should say it was a brave blunder. In a tank there are three people, Driver, Commander and Firer, imagine what will happen if the commander abandons his role of hunting and locking the enemy and joins the firer in firing, Millitary leaderships' job is to live in the future, to provide vision, to anticipate future, soldiers job is to live and die today.
> 
> Base commander's job to save Kamra should have started the day first such attack was launched on any millitary installation in Pakistan, not on the night when the attack actually happened on Kamra. The fact that the attack happened and enemy succeeded in entering the base is the fist failure, regardless of the outcome. The whole purpose of the security measures is to avaoid / eliminate any such attack from ever happening and success is to neutralize the enemy outside your green zone, not in the red zone.
> 
> Second failure was the time it took for the response team to arrive and engage the enemy, it clearly shows there was no contingency response team ready to deal with the situation which shows total lack of preparedness.
> 
> Third failure was the base commander exposing himself to danger. Wars are fought both on psych and field. Victory on psych is plays a bigger role than victory in the field. how does it sound tp read "terrorists attack and kill PAF base commander in his base"?
> 
> fourth failure was the use of C130 immediately after the attack, what if there were one or two hiding away from the scene with manpads? what the heck are drones for?
> 
> Why aren't ther two or three attack helis equiped with night vision and precision fire weapons on each base, ever ready to respond
> to such contingencies?
> 
> How much does it cost to install motion sensors around critical installations worth billions?
> 
> The most important question is have we learned anything now? apparently we did not learn any thing from Mehran.



Thorough Pro! Right you are in every respect! Simple reply is that most of our security apparatus is ironically PENNY WISE AND POUND FOOLISH! Simply put, in order to defeat the terrorist you need to think like one!

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## newdelhinsa

indiatester said:


> I have one question that has not been answered in this thread. Regardless of whether the terrorists intended to target the AWACS or not, since the time of attack, why were these important assets not "taken away". I mean at the first sign of trouble, should the have not flown off the base and be safe from a ground attack? Agreed it is fraught with danger in itself with any shoulder fired missiles, but in the case of an big assault by an enemy, would these not be sitting ducks?
> Whats the use of force multipliers if they can be taken out at bases by teams of 9-10 terrorists. If there was a bigger team say 20 terrorists? would the outcome have been different. What if they carried any shoulder fired missiles?



Well Whatever is happening is quite new but dangerous for all of us.

To operate in less number is the key for terrorists otherwise a large group might have been tipped off or hunted down at nearest on road check post many KM before the base.

You do not need a stinger or RPG to bring a flying plane down a bullet could have done the same, heck a bird can do the same. It would have been more dangerous and had made them more vulnerable I mean trying to make planes take off from the air strip when base is engaged in gun battle inside. 

Also It would depend on the status of the landed plane i.e. a parked plan doesn't mean its ready to fly at any disposal especially big planes 

The only thing which go in favour is the sheer size of the base, scattering of assets and barriers/buildings engineered in such a way that important places becomes less exposed to ground attacks from outside or intruder sneaking in from periphery, also the distance from each parked planes; better apart with bulwarks around. Rest should be left on security guarding bases and in this case they have done a good job. 

Having said that we all are just saying things for sake of saying but I am 1000% sure that PAF, PA have great minds, have done far more better things in all regards and fields we could ever imagine.

The only failure I see in these attacks is two words ''arms control'' the GoP's inefficiency to control arms especially more lethal and long range, the failure of population not alarming authorities when seeing or knowing someone having the access to the same. 

When you see some thing wrong inform the authorities, how difficult is this for people of Pakistan ?

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## OrionHunter

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You know why the nation is a loser---because of thinking like this----you fail and then you want to justify the failure---.* A base commander belongs in the command and control room of he base to take charge of the situation---give directives---ask for assistance and the word you people don't know----DESIGNATE AUTHORITY----.*


Spot on! *The problem with many out here is their thorough lack of knowledge of military affairs, but just go blustering on like they think they are the progeny of Clausewitz or Capt Liddell Hart without even knowing what holding a gun is like!*

The SOP is clear. The base commander as in this case, should have been in the ops room or control room to manage and coordinate the operation being executed under his overall command. After all, there were troops from a number of different organizations involved that had to be briefed, deployed and finally launched into a counter attack against the terrorists. A commander cannot do all this if he himself is personally involved in the firefight. If this base commander was running around looking for the terrorists, then who was coordinating the operation? Who was giving the orders? Or was this supposed to be an uncoordinated free-for-all? 

*Bottom line: The base commander running all over the place looking for terrorists leaving his post in the ops room, (where he should have been to coordinate and control the op), was the dumbest thing to do! Period!*

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## Nishan_101

I think it was better for PAF to gone for 7 Saab-2000 AEW&Cs along with 4 for transport and training purposes. We can also let PIA to buy 15 Saab-2000 for Transport purposes as its better and efficient plane. These 26 planes will be able to be over hauled at PAC Kamra and can save a lot of money in future as well and can create a lot of Jobs. I have some sources in PIA who told me that these turbo props are basically the cash machines for us and we make a lot of money from them so I also think that buy 21 Saab-2000 for the PIA would be much better. Although it can also used as an MPA and PN cold have a mix of some P-3C and 7 Saab-2000 MPAs. More over 5-7 as SIGNIT/ELINT or intelligence aircraft for PAA instead of the US ones which we gained. 

*So if we would be able to made up such a decision in 2004-2005 then an order for:
11 Saab-2000 AEW&C and transport/training for PAF
7 Saab-2000 MPA for PN
5-7 Saab-2000 SIGNIT/ELINT or intelligence aircraft for PAA
21 SIGNIT/ELINT transport for PIA*

Can be made to SAAB Group for newer build aircraft this would allow our own engineers and technicians to join their team in Sweden to work with them to learn from them as well as SAAB will gain a new production line open and creating jobs there.


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## Capt.Popeye

Nishan_101 said:


> I think it was better for PAF to gone for 7 Saab-2000 AEW&Cs along with 4 for transport and training purposes. We can also let PIA to buy 15 Saab-2000 for Transport purposes as its better and efficient plane. These 26 planes will be able to be over hauled at PAC Kamra and can save a lot of money in future as well and can create a lot of Jobs. I have some sources in PIA who told me that these turbo props are basically the cash machines for us and we make a lot of money from them so I also think that buy 21 Saab-2000 for the PIA would be much better. Although it can also used as an MPA and PN cold have a mix of some P-3C and 7 Saab-2000 MPAs. More over 5-7 as SIGNIT/ELINT or intelligence aircraft for PAA instead of the US ones which we gained.
> 
> *So if we would be able to made up such a decision in 2004-2005 then an order for:
> 11 Saab-2000 AEW&C and transport/training for PAF
> 7 Saab-2000 MPA for PN
> 5-7 Saab-2000 SIGNIT/ELINT or intelligence aircraft for PAA
> 21 SIGNIT/ELINT transport for PIA*
> 
> Can be made to SAAB Group for newer build aircraft this would allow our own engineers and technicians to join their team in Sweden to work with them to learn from them as well as SAAB will gain a new production line open and creating jobs there.



While that seems to be a nice enough Plan; the SAAB 2000 line is already closed down. Even the PAF SAABs are re-furbished, pre-owned airframes.


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## Windjammer

Walikum Hi Mastan Khan,

Sir, I am somewhat dismayed by your assumptions, calculations and conclusions. Albeit, other gentleman have answered your dilemma amicably, let me ask you bluntly, if a burglar was trying to break into your house in the wee hours, would you stand around until the police arrives, hope some neighbour will notice and come for your help or simply confront the culprit even if it means launching an attack with your walking stick. !!!
You are making it sound as if there were no pilots available hence the base commander had to fly the mission.
This was only a natural reaction from a man in charge of his establishment. Is there anything to suggest what the base commander was doing at that time on that special night, sleeping, praying, preparing for his fast. ???
All salutes to him for leading from the front and setting an example. Let's not assume what could have happened since most of us are not in a position to even imagine what procedures were in place and what actions were executed, however all in all it seems the operation was regular as clockwork.

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## KRAIT

Windjammer said:


> Walikum Hi Mastan Khan,
> 
> Sir, I am somewhat dismayed by your assumptions, calculations and conclusions. Albeit, other gentleman have answered your dilemma amicably, let me ask you bluntly, if a burglar was trying to break into your house in the wee hours, would you stand around until the police arrives, hope some neighbour will notice and come for your help or simply confront the culprit even if it means launching an attack with your walking stick. !!!
> You are making it sound as if there were no pilots available hence the base commander had to fly the mission.
> This was only a natural reaction from a man in charge of his establishment. Is there anything to suggest what the base commander was doing at that time on that special night, sleeping, praying, preparing for his fast. ???
> All salutes to him for leading from the front and setting an example. Let's not assume what could have happened since most of us are not in a position to even imagine what procedures were in place and what actions were executed, however all in all it seems the operation was regular as clockwork.


You are right about leading with an example, but if he would have got shot at the first encounter, who would have guided his men. There is a reason why he is called base commander and not other name. 

Analogy of thief is not right here. 

Why do we have chain of commands ? He was at his rank due to his leadership skill and this require coordinating the attack rather than indulging with enemy at forefront making the entire structure vulnerable of higher authority.

One bullet and the soldiers under him would have no leader. Difference is an officer can fight as well as make strategy at the same time. When bullets are being fired, its the survival instinct that get over a soldier. Few can work strategies while fighting like that Sepoy did, keeping himself safe for too long to engage those attackers.

In history, do you see anywhere, the leader attacking the opponent first. Its work of the soldiers under his command that has to be guided and strike the first blow.

One risk entire team if the leader gets killed, as there won't anyone to coordinate them and when enemy is well trained, you have to have someone who do the thinking.

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## Roybot

Windjammer said:


> Walikum Hi Mastan Khan,
> 
> Sir, I am somewhat dismayed by your assumptions, calculations and conclusions. Albeit, other gentleman have answered your dilemma amicably, let me ask you bluntly, i*f a burglar was trying to break into your house in the wee hours, would you stand around until the police arrives, hope some neighbour will notice and come for your help or simply confront the culprit even if it means launching an attack with your walking stick. !!*



Knee Jerk reaction is for civilians, a military professional is usually trained to do just the opposite. There should be no place for impulsive and miscalculated reactions in a military operation.

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## Windjammer

Roybot said:


> Knee Jerk reaction is for civilians, a military professional is usually trained to do just the opposite. There should be no place for impulsive and miscalculated reactions in a military operation.



It all sounds good when we talk by the book, but as i said no one is quite sure of the actual ground realities.
Did he got shot while leading a counter assault or just got caught in the cross fire, maybe running around making sure all assets were secure.
It's also worth remembering, if in a war like situation, if the base commander is hit, there are certain procedures to follow to keep the base operations running in a manner.

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## foxbat

Windjammer said:


> It all sounds good when we talk by the book, but as i said no one is quite sure of the actual ground realities.
> Did he got shot while leading a counter assault or just got caught in the cross fire, maybe running around making sure all assets were secure.
> It's also worth remembering, if in a war like situation, if the base commander is hit, there are certain procedures to follow to keep the base operations running in a manner.



A base commander running around to ensure assets are secured again brings forth the points raised by MK.. Which is lack of readiness.. Though I understand MK's point, but still there is something admirable about a general getting injured in a firefight along with his men that you cant deny.. Strategy be damned...

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## Jango

Safriz said:


> The red spot is where "Presumably" the awacs were parked...How many check posts..or what looks like check posts on Gmaps you can count surrounding it?



Those are not checkposts, they are sentry posts. Check posts check people passing through them, i.e on the main gate.


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## Windjammer

foxbat said:


> A base commander running around to ensure assets are secured again brings forth the points raised by MK*.. Which is lack of readiness.. *Though I understand MK's point, but still there is something admirable about a general getting injured in a firefight along with his men that you cant deny.. Strategy be damned...


Lack of readiness, you make it sound as if the base was anticipating a terrorist attack and the front gates were left wide open.


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## Jango

Theres a ticker going on Dawn news that a Saab 2000 has suffered irreparable damage and another one will be going to Sweden.

Just saying

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## Safriz

indiatester said:


> I have one question that has not been answered in this thread. Regardless of whether the terrorists intended to target the AWACS or not, since the time of attack, why were these important assets not "taken away". I mean at the first sign of trouble, should the have not flown off the base and be safe from a ground attack? Agreed it is fraught with danger in itself with any shoulder fired missiles, but in the case of an big assault by an enemy, would these not be sitting ducks?
> Whats the use of force multipliers if they can be taken out at bases by teams of 9-10 terrorists. If there was a bigger team say 20 terrorists? would the outcome have been different. What if they carried any shoulder fired missiles?



There are 8 structures resembling a watch tower surrounding the area where hangers are situated.....May be thats why the terrorists were stopped at the wall..as the Airforce claims...
Looking at this picture their claim does sound credible.

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## Windjammer

nuclearpak said:


> Theres a ticker going on Dawn news that a Saab 2000 has suffered irreparable damage and another one will be going to Sweden.
> 
> Just saying



So we are back to our usual gossip theories...... perhaps you should read Oscar's post. !!


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## foxbat

Windjammer said:


> Lack of readiness, you make it sound as if the base was anticipating a terrorist attack and the front gates were left wide open.



That would have been a crime.. What I said was just lack of readiness.. Dont go ballistic on me mate.. I was almost agreeing to your POV

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## XYON

nuclearpak said:


> Theres a ticker going on Dawn news that a Saab 2000 has suffered irreparable damage and another one will be going to Sweden.
> 
> Just saying



I have heard (from a very good friend who works at Kamra) absolutely the same that incident damage done is larger then what is being reported initially. Most certainly some things on the damage done are being deliberately hidden for reasons best know to the PAF

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## TAC

nuclearpak said:


> Theres a ticker going on Dawn news that a Saab 2000 has suffered irreparable damage and another one will be going to Sweden.
> 
> Just saying



Once again - this report cannot be found anywhere else. There are 2 douzen reports confirming the Defence Ministers detailed comments. So are we to believe this one report and believe that the defence minister is lying, the PAF spokesman was lying and the ACM was lying when he praises the timely and effective defence of the base and its assets which condemned the 'evil designs of the enemy into dust'???


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## foxbat

XYON said:


> I have heard (from a very good friend who works at Kamra) absolutely the same that incident damage done is larger then what is being reported initially. Most certainly some things on the damage done are being deliberately hidden for reasons best know to the PAF



Downplaying the losses and damage is expected in such a scenario.. And there have been historical instances of the same by Pakistani military.. However I am not able to see this ticker.. Where exactly is this ?? TV news or the site of Dawn?


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## Doctor Death

nuclearpak said:


> Theres a ticker going on Dawn news that a Saab 2000 has suffered irreparable damage and another one will be going to Sweden.
> 
> Just saying


I am seeing similar reports in Pashtunforums too.


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## TAC

Aeronaut said:


>



Thanks for posting this. Shahid Lateef specificaly says that there was only 1 Awacs in the hanger that they tried to get close to and yet people are still in insisting that 2 were destroyed and a third damaged. He also goes into some detail about the response and again says it was quick and effective / adequate. I repeat - Shahid Lateef is a retired Minhas base comander and ExVCAM. He is straight talking and has no hesitation lambasting PAF if it is deserved -- eg watch his interviews after the Osama raid. Unlike rumour mongers - he knows what he is talking about.

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## Nishan_101

Capt.Popeye said:


> While that seems to be a nice enough Plan; the SAAB 2000 line is already closed down. Even the PAF SAABs are re-furbished, pre-owned airframes.


 
Well I also know that. I said if we had tried in 2004 that might have opened again at that time. I also suggested the similar plan for PAC with Chinese to build a similar aircraft with 30% more wing area as Saab-2000 has along with a better version of Saab-340 with Chinese in a JV that will help us our PAA, PAF, PN as well as PIA too.

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## TAC

foxbat said:


> Downplaying the losses and damage is expected in such a scenario.. And there have been historical instances of the same by Pakistani military.. However I am not able to see this ticker.. Where exactly is this ?? TV news or the site of Dawn?



In the same way - I can understand enemies of PAF hoping for maximum damage regardless of the facts.

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## foxbat

TAC said:


> In the same way - I can understand enemies of PAF hoping for maximum damage regardless of the facts.



That's true.. It will be an insult to the intelligence of Pakistani members here if any Indian member says that he is not hoping for the news of AWACS being destroyed to be true..

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## Windjammer

foxbat said:


> Downplaying the losses and damage is expected in such a scenario.. And there have been historical instances of the same by Pakistani military.. However I am not able to see this ticker.. Where exactly is this ?? TV news or the site of Dawn?



Mate, now a days even fake encounters in wilderness get exposed, what to say of downplaying with merely three aircraft. In case some haven't noticed, after making tall claims of destroying three JF-17s, the culprits have gone all quite....sort of in a shock as to what hit them and how quickly they were taken out.

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## Windjammer

In case some of you are not familiar with Shahid Lateef, apart from once being the base commander at Kamra, he was the first PAF pilot to bring an F-16 to Pakistan.

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## Mujahid

*Photos of Militants Killed In the Kamra Base Assault*








http://www.samaa.tv/urdu/urdu-news-8-16-2012-11483-1.html

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## foxbat

Windjammer said:


> Mate, now a days even fake encounters in wilderness get exposed, what to say of downplaying with merely three aircraft. In case some haven't noticed, after making tall claims of destroying three JF-17s, the culprits have gone all quite....sort of in a shock as to what hit them and how quickly they were taken out.



Mate, its your own countrymen who are talking about the extent of damage to the aircraft and the controversies around it.. and your own media that is going to and fro on it.. Again, why are you jumping on me ..



Windjammer said:


> Mate, now a days even fake encounters in wilderness get exposed, what to say of downplaying with merely three aircraft. In case some haven't noticed, after making tall claims of destroying three JF-17s, the culprits have gone all quite....sort of in a shock as to what hit them and how quickly they were taken out.



Mate, its your own countrymen who are talking about the extent of damage to the aircraft and the controversies around it.. and your own media that is going to and fro on it.. Again, why are you jumping on me ..


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## Hyperion

I maybe canned for my viewpoints, whatever, here it goes:

OK, this is not directed towards anyones person, and most definitely no one should take it as such, as I see emotions run rampant on this forum!

I was amazed to see so many people jump the gun on Mastan Khan for having a differing viewpoint of a situation, a person or whatever. (only IB, had a reply that merits a kudos)

Isn't this a strategy forum, and aren't most of you so to speak "Think Tanks," shouldn't it be your job to foster critical thinking, rather than bully each and and everyone with a differing viewpoint? Or is it best to shove a badge of a *traitor*, *member of a fifth column*, *instigator* or the mostly used *naive* / *stupid* / *juvenile* ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

*QUOTE* _"Critical" as used in the expression "critical thinking" connotes the importance or centrality of the thinking to an issue, question or problem of concern. "Critical" in this context *does not mean "disapproval" or "negative."*_ *UNQUOTE*

Anyhow, a very happy Eid to all my countrymen and members of this board. Cheers!

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## Peregrine

MastanKhan said:


> My Boy,
> 
> It is okay to argue with me---and you can come ut swinging as well---I don't mind---because you are my kids---if you don't learn from me and don't try it on me---who else would you try it on.
> 
> If the general had a side arm---he did not need to have struggled with the terrorist---he did not understand the threat level and paid the price with his life---.
> 
> Now---your analysis of my post is absolutely pathetic----bases have command and control centers---the base comander is required to stay in charge---to guide the retaliation----.
> 
> You kids have no clue what I am talking about---I feel sorry for the education that you have gotten about these issues---your perception of the issue is very tragic----I feel ashamed at your lack of knowledge and understanding---.


Mastan Sahib,
It's not about who you are, where you are and what you study. It's a simple matter of common sense and humanity; you see people in trouble, you try to help them out irrespective of what the SOP's are. The base commander in question, has earned my respect, he is a true hero of the nation and will be praised. With that said, it's Eid in USA, so Eid Muabarak!

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## Developereo

XYON said:


> *GROUNDS FOR COURT MARTIAL OF THE BASE COMMANDER PAF MINHAS* - Air Commodore Azam
> 
> 1. The Base Commander is solely responsible for the Security of the Base and the protection of PAF assets on it!
> 
> 2. The Base Commander did not equate this simple terrorists breach scenario (despite hard lessons from PNS Mehran and earlier attacks on Kamra) into the base security equation.
> 
> 3. The Base Commander did not enhance a multi layered security system around the base especially from the point where the terrorists entered. Multi layered security ONLY exists on the entry point from GT Road whilst all other points at the base had minimum security cover.
> 
> 4. At the time of the attack, the terrorists were ONLY challenged by a LONE tower security guard who responded with lethal force and laid his life in the process of doing his job valiantly. He should be given the highest honor of the land.
> 
> 5. The Base Commander neglected basic military protocol and left his duties from the Base Command and Control Center to guide the QRF on ground. He either deliberately or in the heat-of-the-moment chose to pick up arms and personally go to the front line from where if he had been killed or captured there would have been an immediate breakdown of command & control and the terrorists would have made use of the situation to inflict both physical and moral damage.
> 
> 6. The Base Commander did not enhance the base security around the strategic assets despite open deceleration by the Government that Pakistan is in the state of war & hence the need for extra vigilance and physical security.



I don't know about court martial, but I agree with the criticism of the base commander. After all the terrorists attacks that have happened, he was caught with his pants down. Billions of dollars worth of assets, all those people whose security is HIS responsibility. Do these people ever learn from what's happening around the country? Or does each base need its own individual terrorist attack as a wake-up call?

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## Hyperion

Developereo said:


> Or does each base need its own individual terrorist attack as a wake-up call?


Couldn't have worded it any better, myself!


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## Dil Pakistan

Windjammer said:


> In case some of you are not familiar with Shahid Lateef, apart from once being the base commander at Kamra, he was the first PAF pilot to bring an F-16 to Pakistan.


 Thanks Windjammer for this piece of news. I have seen this photo before and always wondered who was the guy to bring first F-16 to Pakistan


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## SQ8

Safriz said:


> The red spot is where "Presumably" the awacs were parked...How many check posts..or what looks like check posts on Gmaps you can count surrounding it?



That Village is the biggest issue.. 
Until you have civillian population centre's near military bases.. expect the same.
However.. the colonial mentality has yet to leave our military's planners..
They prefer location in terms of beauty and not safety.

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## Irfan Baloch

TAC said:


> Absolutely amazing analysis by some. In the same post the Naval base comander at Mehran is called a yellow bellied coward (for not leading from the front) AND in the same breath - the Minhas base commander is told that he has no right to exist on the planet -- because he did lead from the front. So what would you have the base comander of the next attacked base do?? Arrest all the villagers around his base well in advance and burn the villages down?? Command from the control room and get struck down as a coward?? Go lead his men in defending his base and get called an idiot for nearly giving the enemy a great prize??
> 
> The Minhas base commander showed that he will happily give up his life to defend his base - and when he showed this every other man under his command would feel obliged / honour bound to do the same. How many soldiers will contemplate falling back if their commander is fighting in front of them? It was this level of bravery and devotion to duty from everyone - from the commander at the top to the 20 year old sentry at at the bottom which averted disaster for Pakistan and PAF on 17th Aug 2012.



this is emotional rant, please spare me that next time.

burn down village and all that. Why do we have to always talk in extremes to defend an indefensible argument?

the PN leadership is criticised because it didnt even exist at the control room. Let alone being part of the response team.

it was shamelessly more interested in looking after its pristine uniform and staff cars & protocol rather than pre-empting and responding to the attack. granted that calling it a coward and yellow bellied was uncalled for but that was due to the lack of a term. it was just absent from the scene. a commander doesnt have to be standing shoulder to shoulder to its frontline troops. his command just needs to be felt and known. Only a layman would restrict himself to a physical presence A clueless and incompetent commander's presence in the battlefield can be a disaster instead of a motivation. but lets stop discussing hypothetically.

let me share something with you which you might have overlooked. in a similar situation where special forces are called in due to the nature of the job at hand,, they tell the regular soldiers and civilians to stay the hell out.
and when they commence their operation they would even handcuff and contain the friendlys in case they dont comply . until the mission is accomplished and threats are neutralized anyone who is not the member of the commando team is treated as a potential threat. because in the chaos its hard to confirm the identities. All such people are led to a designated area for formal identification and debrief

Now even air commodore was previously trained in special operations then his age and his position doesnt allow him to go in the harms way the way he did and took a bullet and essentially became unavailable where he was needed and gave unnecessary diversion to the tactical command of the response team.

I will stop discussing this issue any further. The criticism of PN and PAF leadership is for different reasons the former exhibited its criminal incompetence & negligence & the later is plain foolish due to an individual act of heroism which was not required. 
I will not take this discussion of Air commodores actions vs. PN inaction any further. What I say is only my point of view nothing more and nothing less.


Now as far as the willingness to lay his life is concerned, I have a very strong view against that. The nation has spent a lot of time, money and resources for that air commodore to reach his position and he has no right to give it up his life and services belong to the state now. No soldier would be willing to become a shaheed, instead his primary concern should be success of the mission and the battle and if in performing his duties his life comes in danger and he looses it then so be it but it shouldnt be the primary objective. 

Pakistani concept of Shadah or martyrdom is absolutely screwed up to the core. If this sentence is too hard to swallow for anyone then pay attention to the prayer of the Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH who asked for Allahs, Blessing and Help in achieving the victory against the bigger and superior Mekkan force in the battle of Badr. The primary objective was the victory fort he sake of the survival of the Muslim future. Means to an end (victory over Mekkans) were faith, discipline & superior skills and leadership both military through people like Amir Hamza ra and Ali ra & spiritual though no other than Muhammad PBUH. The martyrdom of 14 was an outcome to achieve the ends not the ends themselves. Our defenders have much to learn from this battle.

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## SQ8

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You know why the nation is a loser---because of thinking like this----you fail and then you want to justify the failure---. A base commander belongs in the command and control room of he base to take charge of the situation---give directives---ask for assistance and the word you people don't know----DESIGNATE AUTHORITY----.
> 
> See---I keep forgetting my roots---. This ideology of officer leading from the front keeps the rankers subjugated. Truthfully---in the end---the rankers feel impotent without their officers even though the rankers are as capable a warrior as there maybe---the sepoy who laid his life for the cause---what a warrior---.
> 
> You men praise those of doing the job of 10 people---it is a terrible pakistani indian mindset---. Successful businesses and conglomerates train each individual to do their jobs---indeed tghe leasders amongst them will carry the show----but you don't need the base commander to lead when there are 8 insurgents attacking---.



This part I agree with, but since you are aware of the Pakistani mindset.. you should know that we are incapable of showing initiative on our own unless egged on by a senior or otherwise. The Base commander did exactly that..should he have done better in his training(or rather the air force).. in showing initiative.. ?
YEs.. but you and all others are also familiar with the mindset prevalent in the Pakistani military of not rocking the boat and not questioning authority.. 
When no officer claps in a ceremony till the Air Chief does so, what makes you think the very officers will display initiative in a firefight. The whole system of training is pathetic throughout Pakistan's Military.

As an example I am posting a quote from ACdre Kaiser Tufails blog on his observations as Base Commander Jacobabad during the US presence there.



> _Early one morning, I got a call from the air traffic controller that a US Navy F-18 with a serious emergency was coming in to land at Shahbaz. His wingman was with him. The controller told me that the visibility was very bad and it had been conveyed to the pilots. A more serious issue was that both the aircraft were armed with 4,000 lbs of bombs each, as they were on a bombing mission to Afghanistan. I drove down to the de-arming area to quickly evacuate personnel, if any. There I met a USAF Warrant Officer who rechecked about the local de-arming procedure with me.* I asked him where were other technical personnel, to which he replied that he, along with another technician, would take care of everything. &#8220;Has Col McCain been informed?&#8221; I asked. &#8220;Sir, I am not sure, but he need not be here. I am the Airfield Safety Officer and can handle such stuff.&#8221;* After a few minutes the two F-18&#8217;s landed and taxied to where we stood. The Warrant Officer steadily went ahead, supervised insertion of the safety pins in the bombs by the armament technician and gave a thumbs up to the two F-18s to taxi back to the main tarmac. As the taxiway was blocked at the other end by PAF Mirages, the only option for the F-18s was to switch off, as a U-turn on the narrow taxi track was not possible. To my utter surprise, I saw the wings of the aircraft fold 90° up and they did the U-turns as ordinary vehicles would do on the road! As the aircraft taxied in front of me, I saw that the canopy of one F-18 had been shattered and large panels near the side and front of the cockpit were missing. I later learnt that the aircraft had a nasty scrape with the refuelling probe of an aerial refueller. The stricken aircraft switched off on the tarmac while the other F-18 did a &#8216;hot-refuelling&#8217; (with engines running) and, in a matter of minutes, took off alone for a recovery on its aircraft carrier.
> 
> Back in office, I called McCain to check if he knew about the emergency. &#8220;*Yes, they called me,&#8221; he replied. He understood my concern and added, &#8220;I am a C-130 guy, and I bet I would have messed up things if I&#8217;d been there. I am sure the safety officer did a good job. He is trained for it.&#8221; In the handling of this emergency, I was struck by the confidence every supervisor had in himself as well as his sub-ordinates. Authority had been duly delegated and there was no interference by the higher-ups, whatsoever. A JCO and a couple of NCOs had handled a very serious emergency with remarkable ease*._



So what the Base commander did, within the confines of the system he has been trained in and operates in .. is commendable.
What he did with respect to the overall picture of dealing with terrorism is not. But blaming the base commander is like catching small fry and castrating it for no reason when the whole sea is filled with sick fish.

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## Hyperion

Irfan Baloch said:


> *this is emotional rant, please spare me that next time.
> 
> burn down village* and all that. Why do we have to always talk in extremes to *defend an indefensible argument*?
> 
> the PN leadership is criticised because it didnt even exist at the control room. Let alone being part of the response team.
> 
> it was shamelessly more interested in looking after its pristine uniform and staff cars & protocol rather than pre-empting and responding to the attack. granted that calling it a coward and yellow bellied was uncalled for but that was due to the lack of a term. it was just absent from the scene. a *commander doesnt have to be standing shoulder to shoulder to its frontline troops. his command just needs to be felt and known. * Only a layman would restrict himself to a physical presence A clueless and incompetent commander's presence in the battlefield can be a disaster instead of a motivation. but lets stop discussing hypothetically.
> 
> let me share something with you which you might have overlooked. in a similar situation where special forces are called in due to the nature of the job at hand,, *they tell the regular soldiers and civilians to stay the hell out*.
> and when they commence their operation they would even handcuff and contain the friendly&#8217;s in case they don&#8217;t comply . until the mission is accomplished and threats are neutralized anyone who is not the member of the commando team is treated as a potential threat. *because in the chaos its hard to confirm the identities*. All such people are led to a designated area for formal identification and debrief
> 
> Now even air commodore was previously trained in special operations then his age and his position doesnt allow him to go in the harms way the way he did and *took a bullet and essentially became unavailable where he was needed* and gave unnecessary diversion to the tactical command of the response team.
> 
> I will stop discussing this issue any further. The criticism of PN and PAF leadership is for different reasons the former exhibited its criminal incompetence & negligence & the later is plain foolish due to an individual act of heroism which was not required.
> I will not take this discussion of Air commodore&#8217;s actions vs. PN inaction any further. *What I say is only my point of view nothing more and nothing less.*
> 
> 
> Now as far as the willingness to lay his life is concerned, *I have a very strong view against that. The nation has spent a lot of time, money and resources for that air commodore to reach his position and he has no right to give it up his life and services belong to the state now. * No soldier would be willing to become a shaheed, instead his primary concern should be success of the mission and the battle and if in performing his duties his life comes in danger and he looses it then so be it but it shouldn&#8217;t be the primary objective.
> 
> *Pakistani concept of Shadah or martyrdom is absolutely screwed up to the core. If this sentence is too hard to swallow for anyone then pay attention to the prayer of the Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH who asked for Allah&#8217;s, Blessing and Help in achieving the victory against the bigger and superior Mekkan force in the battle of Badr.* _The primary objective was the victory fort he sake of the survival of the Muslim future. Means to an end (victory over Mekkans) were faith, discipline & superior skills and leadership both military through people like Amir Hamza ra and Ali ra & spiritual though no other than Muhammad PBUH. The martyrdom of 14 was an outcome to achieve the ends not the ends themselves._ Our defenders have much to learn from this battle.



Awesome analysis.


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## SEAL

This discussion won't end pay some respect to our fallen shaheed hero Asif Ramzan.


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## Hyperion

Oscar said:


> So what the Base commander did, within the confines of the system he has been trained in and operates in .. is commendable.
> What he did with respect to the overall picture of dealing with terrorism is not. But blaming the base commander is like catching small fry and castrating it for no reason when the whole sea is filled with sick fish.



Cost of a GDP candidate just before graduation : USD1.5 million.
Cost of GDP Group Captain / Air Cdre : Tens of millions.
Cost of experience: Irreplaceable.

Now go and figure for yourself!



fox said:


> This discussion won't end pay some respect to our fallen shaheed hero Asif Ramzan.


And once again we have the usual suspects with "interesting facts".


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## Developereo

Irfan Baloch said:


> Pakistani concept of Shadah or martyrdom is absolutely screwed up to the core.



&#8220;The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his.&#8221; &#8213; George S. Patton Jr.

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## Hyperion

Developereo said:


> &#8220;The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his.&#8221; &#8213; George S. Patton Jr.


That's one of my favorite quotes, and I use it in ALL my business related strategies!


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## XYON

SELF DELETE


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## SQ8

Irfan Baloch said:


> Now as far as the willingness to *lay his life is concerned*, I have a very strong view against that. The nation has spent a lot of time, money and resources for that air commodore to reach his position and he has no right to give it up his life and services belong to the state now. No soldier would be willing to become a shaheed, instead his primary concern should be success of the mission and the battle and if in performing his duties his life comes in danger and he looses it then so be it but it shouldn&#8217;t be the primary objective.
> 
> Pakistani concept of Shadah or martyrdom is absolutely screwed up to the core. If this sentence is too hard to swallow for anyone then pay attention to the prayer of the Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH who asked for Allah&#8217;s, Blessing and Help in achieving the victory against the bigger and superior Mekkan force in the battle of Badr. The primary objective was the victory fort he sake of the survival of the Muslim future. Means to an end (victory over Mekkans) were faith, discipline & superior skills and leadership both military through people like Amir Hamza ra and Ali ra & spiritual though no other than Muhammad PBUH. The martyrdom of 14 was an outcome to achieve the ends not the ends themselves. Our defenders have much to learn from this battle.



Agreed.. but take in the view of the analysis of our mindset that I have posted..
In that respect.. he supposedly did well and will even be commended for it.
Now if he has been taught to think along incorrect lines..what do you do?

If people take the time out to actually read up on Islamic history and its battles through multiple authors...IB's post will make much more sense. Your death is useful only if it helped achieve something.. and a fighting Muslim has always been considered more useful than a dead one. 
There were instances the prophet asked his companions for sacrifice to protect himself.. but never in vain,_ he knew he was important, they knew he was important._. they knew they were being asked to provide a tactical delay or advantage.. that was the prize of Shahadat.. knowing that your life was worth saving those of others and furthering the cause of Islam.. 
At no point are you required to be sheep in the slaughter.. which is why these TTP and other Jihadist types are sheer idiots for thinking they can take on a superior force without equipment or preparation..and when they get minced by Apache Gunships.. they claim Shahadat.. fools.

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## Hyperion

Roybot said:


> Calm down folks, no need to get personal!


Referring to iPhone and XYON? 

That's what I thought, WTH is up with these two


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## Irfan Baloch

iPhone said:


> Sir, I respectfully disagree with you have written here and this seems to be the mentality of the armed forces, too. That We can't take action directly due to certain Social and religious reasons.
> 
> Sir, have you heard the saying, nipping it in the bud? I'm sure you have. This is what needs to be do e here. If you continue to cater to the terrorist for the reasons you have listed then we are doomed. The country is doomed,
> 
> They attacked the army headquarter, they moved on to the Navy, inflicted heavy losses and today it's the airforce. We are not even fully sure of the extent of damage they have caused here.
> 
> If things continue this way and no action is taken against them then I can guarantee you the next attack will be at a secret nuclear facility. The army must come out of this thinking that they have to appease Asma Jahngir likes and take careful measures.
> 
> You don't win wars that way. You gots to go all out. Nip it in the bud. Destroy them right where they stand. No court proceedings, no arrests. Military justice, ya hum nehi ya woh nehi. Forget about what people are going to say, people talk, that's what they do, but theyll move on.



my dear younger Pakistani

what you are saying is a wishful thinking. we are still debating for the past ten years if the TTP actions are Islamic or not. A large population of Pindi & Islamabad is extremely radicalised & devout follower of Mollana Abdul Aziz. the issue is with the mindset. 
I was only stating the facts and mourning the lack of will and ability of our state to handle these evils in the bud. give it time you will see Lal Masjid episode 2 in the near future. thats because the mindset of our majority.

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## Developereo

Oscar said:


> So what the Base commander did, within the confines of the system he has been trained in and operates in .. is commendable.
> What he did with respect to the overall picture of dealing with terrorism is not. But blaming the base commander is like catching small fry and castrating it for no reason when the whole sea is filled with sick fish.



I agree. There is a system-wide problem of not quite accepting that we are at war, and things will get much worse once we take on the TTP full on in N. Waziristan.

We need to learn from the Americans and the Israelis about how to safeguard society in general and military assets in particular.

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## SQ8

Hyperion said:


> Cost of a GDP candidate just before graduation : USD1.5 million.
> Cost of GDP Group Captain / Air Cdre : Tens of millions.
> Cost of experience: Irreplaceable.
> 
> Now go and figure for yourself!



Cost of non-responsive security .. hundreds of Millions.. one dead base commander is a non-issue then.
Remember lal Masjid.. the troops went berserk after their commander was killed.. 
bad in that situation.. but good in this one.
You arent dealing with JCO's and NCO's who will respond on their own..
Its a rotten system.. and it will take years to change it.

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## Hyperion

Oscar said:


> *Its a rotten system.. and it will take years to change it.*



Since I left it, I thought, maybe it would have changed for the better. But after joining this forum, I think you maybe right! 

Actually it's very disheartening, and makes me extremely sad that this has escalated almost to a point of no return.


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## tarrar

TAC said:


> Thanks for posting this. Shahid Lateef specificaly says that there was only 1 Awacs in the hanger that they tried to get close to and yet people are still in insisting that 2 were destroyed and a third damaged. He also goes into some detail about the response and again says it was quick and effective / adequate. I repeat - Shahid Lateef is a retired Minhas base comander and ExVCAM. He is straight talking and has no hesitation lambasting PAF if it is deserved -- eg watch his interviews after the Osama raid. Unlike rumour mongers - he knows what he is talking about.



Simple & straight forward answers by Retd. Air Marshal Shahid Lateef & good to see that US name is coming openly now & hopefully more names will come out in the open of those countries who also funded & helped these terrorists. What I would like to know which aircraft was damaged in the base, what I have learned that it was IL 78 that was ONLY damaged.

Also what I am seeing over here Indians are spreading massive lies over here in this thread.


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## forcetrip

I have been led from the front and I will be respecting that person till the end of my days. No one really knows if he was charging into the terrorists screaming. He could have been at a safe distance fulfilling his duty and got wounded. Right now a lot of conflicting reports are there and we should wait for more details. He was a base commander and his base was under attack. It was the ultimate test of his position which he passed with flying colors. Woulda Coulda scenarios will not change the outcome in this particular instance.


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## XYON

Developereo said:


> I don't know about court martial, but I agree with the criticism of the base commander. After all the terrorists attacks that have happened, he was caught with his pants down. Billions of dollars worth of assets, all those people whose security is HIS responsibility. Do these people ever learn from what's happening around the country? Or does each base need its own individual terrorist attack as a wake-up call?



The Base Commander of PAF Base Minhas did what one would expect from a unit head of any of the Talibaan rag-tag fighters and not what one would expect from a seasoned and battle-hardened professional military commander. I would be the first one to have praised the Base Commander to take up arms in case the Base was being over run by 200-300 armed TTP thugs and there would have been a fire fight in every nook. If for 9 intruding thugs an AIR COMMODORE along with his GROUP CAPTAIN and WING COMMANDER has to come out to join the fist fight along with the grunts then I am seriously worried about the future of this Air Force! In short, the base had no security detailed, the base commander was caught with his pants down as your say, and he his done this to salvage his carrier which I sure sure hope comes to an abrupt end with some jail time after the inquiry commission report comes out!


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## SQ8

XYON said:


> In short, the base had no security detailed,



Again.. incorrect and ill-informed conclusions.
What do you know of the base security measures? 
Has there been any less.. there would have been a Mehran redux..
There was a system that worked like clockwork..
however.. where there was pre-emptive measures required.. there was none.

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## KRAIT

XYON said:


> The Base Commander of PAF Base Minhas did what one would expect from a unit head of any of the Talibaan rag-tag fighters and not what one would expect from a seasoned and battle-hardened professional military commander. I would be the first one to have praised the Base Commander to take up arms in case the Base was being over run by 200-300 armed TTP thugs and there would have been a fire fight in every nook. If for 9 intruding thugs an AIR COMMODORE along with his GROUP CAPTAIN and WING COMMANDER has to come out to join the fist fight along with the grunts then I am seriously worried about the future of this Air Force! In short, the base had no security detailed, the base commander was caught with his pants down as your say, and he his done this to salvage his carrier which I sure sure hope comes to an abrupt end with some jail time after the inquiry commission report comes out!


I was watching a documentary on Roman Invasion of Britain. In initial attacks, one of the leader, close to be a king of British tribe got killed in the battle as he was fighting along with his men. You know what happened, and how scholars defined it. They say it broke the morale of the British soldiers as they were left with no leader and lost the battle too easily than expected.

In today's world, these things matter. I have already said, one bullet to base commander in initial part of the attack would have left all the soldiers without any officer to arrange and make real time strategy, not to forget loss of key point of communication between the soldiers fighting and special commandos that entered later on. Go through Irfan's post, he has pointed out the commando operation and that shows the importance of ranking officer in that situation. It would have been more chaotic situation if that officer was killed.

BTW I don't question the officer's bravery.


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## Irfan Baloch

MastanKhan said:


> Irfan---Asim---Njam---what iif there were 20 of them---what would have happened then.
> 
> It is being stated that the sepoy who died---gave them 10--20 minutes time to get together to respond---has any body caught onto that---10 minutes in a fire fight is a life time---20 minutes is an eternity---.
> 
> What that means---is that there was absolutely no preparation to counter the strike---. My god----how pathtic---you people are hounding on me---it is you whom you should be hounding at---you specially Asim---and you too Najam---other kids---hehnnnn---you are too innocnet.



I am not hounding on you hehe
I find your analysis on the extreme side but I do agree with the thinking to some extent.

I dont want to hypothesize the outcome if the number of attackers was many fold. maybe they *would have* hand been *identified *earlier as its hard to conceal or in the worse case scenario they *would have* overwhelmed the base defenders.

thats how the guerrillas operate, they give the impression of attack from everywhere and keep the defenders puzzled about the direction of the attack, intended target and the number of attackers.

the on ground defenders are only a stop gap, there is always going to be a delay in the actual & "elite" response force (the less the time the better). I dont agree that there was no preparation. they were confined in good (subjective term ) time and their performance was very lacklustre compared to other attacks. 

is there any room for improvement? hell yea. 

how?

more electronic surveillance and sensors for vaster areas and front line sentries trained at highest possible manner in terms of threat identification, weapons proficiency and mental alertness so that the response transition to the heavy cavalry is smooth and seamless.

in most ideal situation, the perimeter defence should take out all the intruders before they get even close to the external boundary. this is what I will like to be acceptable if the terrorist attack has already commenced. 

please spell it out how exactly would you have liked the response once the terrorists had infiltrated. I want to be on the same page with you. given the information available, I am satisfied with the performance. convince me otherwise

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## Safriz

The alleged area from where Attackers entered or tried to enter...again we see many Watch towers/Check posts..
The probable AWACS hanger is indicated by Red paint...The oil tanks that caught fire are indicated by Volcano ..
The problems is this area are many...

1) Village edge is less than 200 meters from The wall..
2) The wall itself has many bends and corners here,unlike the rest of the boundary wall around the airbase which is in long stretches of straight lines..but here attackers could take cover behind behind bends and corners of the wall itself...and keep safe from Incoming fire from watch towers.....
3) There are a few hills in this area,at least one is higher than watch towers and anybody at that vantage point can take a direct shot at sentries posted on watch towers...

But at lest three watch towers are within 200 meters of the Hanger and that's well within range of even assault rifles,and i assume the sentries must have something more powerful than an assault rifle?
and we see two walls..one outer and an inner wall closer to the hanger...Crossing both walls while taking fire from Three or four Watch towers is a bit superman-ish.
Attackers could take cover behind trees and bends in the wall,but once in the clear they immediately would have come under fire from 3 or more towers.....
I don't know what type of RPG they had,but normally RPG is only effective at 200 meters range and has a blast radius of 10 meters maximum..
It doesn't look possible that they could have come even within 200 meters of this hanger,and even if they came close then due to vegetation and uneven ground it wouldn't have been that easy to take a clear shot of the hanger.


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## Hyperion

Oscar said:


> *however*.. where there was pre-emptive measures required.. there was none.


Then why not spend a little moolah from CSF on something similar:

Army uses radar to detect suicide bombers | TG Daily

I mean, I can name a few dozen similar system with wide-band, large area detection capabilities, and for gods sake, I am just a Civi at the moment!

Additionally, I can name 50 "unconventional" systems to subdue an insurgent, just on the back of my hand.

_Subdue_: *Dead men don't talk!* Therefore, good for interrogation by the Powindhas. And I love the tactics they apply for 'information mining'. I have seen it, and it works like a charm


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## tarrar

Aeronaut said:


>



This interview is to SHUT UP all I non sense


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## Roybot

Safriz said:


> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7262/7812101964_9545b1fc82_b.jpg
> 
> The alleged area from where Attackers entered or tried to enter...again we see many Watch towers/Check posts..
> *The probable AWACS hanger is indicated by Red paint...*The oil tanks that caught fire are indicated by Volcano ..
> The problems is this area are many...



Thats definitely the SAAB hangar, mere 100m from the boundary. You can see a SAAB 2000 parked infront of the Hangar.

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## XYON

Oscar said:


> Again.. incorrect and ill-informed conclusions.
> What do you know of the base security measures?
> Has there been any less.. there would have been a Mehran redux..
> There was a system that worked like clockwork..
> however.. where there was pre-emptive measures required.. there was none.



Yes I am aware of the base security!! a few pan-tilt-zoom cameras, high power lights yada yada! And you use this word a lot 'clock-work'!! What 'clock-work'? Base was brutally penetrated and if it was not up to the DSG soldier to raise the alarm, the intruders would have not been detected until they would have banged on the hanger doors of the Erieye!!

The so called base security should have been able to detect the intruders while they approached the wall (ground sensors), while they scaled the wall (e-fence with sector detection), while they cut the razor wire (it should have been electrified), no thermal imaging towers to detect the point of intrusion and sound a general alarm.

The TTP got into the base, destroyed expensive property, killed two people!!! WHAT FREKIN' BASE SECURITY ARE YOU REFERRING TO?


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## Irfan Baloch

MastanKhan said:


> When it takes 10 minutes for the security to show up---it means that there was no security---that meant that the base commander was the security detail.
> Asim---Najam---Irfan---when you people learn to be honest with your analysis against the very people you cherish and look upto---that is the time you will begin to see a change in your nation---otherwise---you are there---the nation is there---rolling in dirt somewhere---.



MK saab,

I am getting old I think, I missed the 10 minutes lapse in response time of the cavalry. 
I have to skim through the whole thread and websites to get more details on response time. thats almost equal to never. 


now thats eternity. my analysis is based on what I know + my specific PoV to give a different flavour to the discussion. I guess I am being honest here
I have criticized where I thought it was the right thing. And hailed the performance where credit was due in my opinion

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## KRAIT

Irfan, but you have to think if in future such attack happens and there isn't case of this sepoy who single handedly stopped their advance, situation will be more grave. All Mastan sir is pointing out is, that valuable 15 mins and 3 terrorists, lost by those terrorists may be the biggest factor on defeat of those terrorists, I mean a god damn RPG fell near the AWACs (if report is true), if they would have advanced without any delay, well you can make the picture. The offensive power of the militant team reduced to 2/3 just because of one sepoy, and that 1/3 power may have achieved the target.

The counter operation worked beautifully but check the timeline and response time. This is the issue in discussion.

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## Jango

TAC said:


> Once again - this report cannot be found anywhere else. There are 2 douzen reports confirming the Defence Ministers detailed comments. So are we to believe this one report and believe that the defence minister is lying, the PAF spokesman was lying and the ACM was lying when he praises the timely and effective defence of the base and its assets which condemned the 'evil designs of the enemy into dust'???



people don't go around quoting a specific person, in this case Spokesman PAF Group Captain Tariq Mehmood, unless they really have confirmed it. If they just wanted to fire a arrow in the dark, they would have said, un-named sources, condition of anonymity, Dawn has learnt etc etc, not specify a person. This was on TV BTW, not the print. Although the print was on Express.


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## TAC

XYON said:


> The Base Commander of PAF Base Minhas did what one would expect from a unit head of any of the Talibaan rag-tag fighters and not what one would expect from a seasoned and battle-hardened professional military commander. I would be the first one to have praised the Base Commander to take up arms in case the Base was being over run by 200-300 armed TTP thugs and there would have been a fire fight in every nook. If for 9 intruding thugs an AIR COMMODORE along with his GROUP CAPTAIN and WING COMMANDER has to come out to join the fist fight along with the grunts then I am seriously worried about the future of this Air Force! In short, the base had no security detailed, the base commander was caught with his pants down as your say, and he his done this to salvage his carrier which I sure sure hope comes to an abrupt end with some jail time after the inquiry commission report comes out!



So you think the base commander sat there and thought - O crap - I've cocked up big - so better go and take a bullit in the arm to show I did my best ---- OR ---- do you think he may have thought - I am not going to sit here and wait for the wireless to tell me what has happened - I am going to get out there and personaly make sure that each one of these dogs is dead before doing any damage to the base I am responsible for. 
At a base where a 20 year old sentry fought bravely for 12 minutes and gave the ultimate sacrifice -- I'll let others decide which of the two thought processes went through the same bases commander in cheif.


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## Jango

Oscar said:


> That Village is the biggest issue..
> Until you have civillian population centre's near military bases.. expect the same.
> However.. the colonial mentality has yet to leave our military's planners..
> They prefer location in terms of beauty and not safety.


 
The thing that even more magnifies this problem, is the presence of hills right beside the wall. Those hills provides a vantage point for media, and also the terrorists who were covering fire.


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## TAC

nuclearpak said:


> people don't go around quoting a specific person, in this case Spokesman PAF Group Captain Tariq Mehmood, unless they really have confirmed it. If they just wanted to fire a arrow in the dark, they would have said, un-named sources, condition of anonymity, Dawn has learnt etc etc, not specify a person. This was on TV BTW, not the print. Although the print was on Express.



I can say I've seen the full fleet of Saabs lined up without a scratch on them with someone holding up todays newspaper on channel XYZ -- are you going to believe me without a link??


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## Hyperion

KRAIT said:


> The counter operation worked beautifully but check the timeline and response time. This is the issue in discussion.


That's what MK has been referring to, and in honest opinion there is no way in hell that just sentry can handle that.

We need
* Anti personnel radars (lots of them)
* Projectile detection radars (loads of them)
* We need *man portable* and fixed EMP weapons. (with all sentries)
* We need non-lethal weaponry to subdue the insurgents and later interrogate them. More leads less attacks!

And a hundred more things. I think, it's need of the hour to get our priorities straightened. Instead of being kids and always wanting new and *expensive* goodies, we need to look at these *relatively simple and cheap* solutions to protect the assets that we already have.

*Therefore regarding newer gizmos from the US of A, why not literally apply the logic of "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush"*


I have a feeling, I maybe bashed pretty soon. So, better leave before that happens

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## TAC

nuclearpak said:


> The thing that even more magnifies this problem, is the presence of hills right beside the wall. Those hills provides a vantage point for media, and also the terrorists who were covering fire.



So with all these wonderfull vantage points -- you think someone may have spotted 2 Saabs going up in smoke?? or did someone hide them in their pocket.


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## SamantK

Hyperion said:


> That's what MK has been referring to, and in honest opinion there is no way in hell that just sentry can handle that.
> 
> We need
> * Anti personnel radars (lots of them)
> * Projectile detection radars (loads of them)
> * We need *man portable* and fixed EMP weapons. (with all sentries)
> * We need non-lethal weaponry to subdue the insurgents and later interrogate them. More leads less attacks!
> 
> And a hundred more things. I think, it's need of the hour to get our priorities straightened. Instead of being kids and always wanting new and *expensive* goodies, we need to look at these *relatively simple and cheap* solutions to protect the assets that we already have.
> 
> *Therefore regarding newer gizmos from the US of A, why not literally apply the logic of "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush"*



IF I may add, a regular armed patrol with a repeat every 5 minutes at any point, looks like this was also missing..

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## Jango

Alot of things in this incident worked to our favour. 

The heroics of DSG for one. Had he not killed the three intruders early on, they would carried on with their plan to split into two teams. He also raised the first alarm.

The 2IC (of the unit in charge of base security) was coincidentally present for Sehri at the base, and he quickly assembled his men, and moved to confront the attackers. Although the reaction could always be made better, but this was much better than the PNS Mehran debacle.

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## Hyperion

samantk said:


> IF I may add, a regular armed patrol with a repeat every 5 minutes at any point, looks like this was also missing..


Nope, I don't agree. I have never ever trusted the human element. We are very complex creatures, where whose loyalties lye, no one knows.

Electronic counter measures FIRST and then the standard methods. We need to either find the fifth column within, OR, find the complacent arses in the armed forces, and boot them out. Enough is enough!


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## Jango

TAC said:


> So with all these wonderfull vantage points -- you think someone may have spotted 2 Saabs going up in smoke?? or did someone hide them in their pocket.



Why the F does there have to be smoke???? It was not a direct hit on the plane. Planes are kept without fuel in Hangars and shelters. Not everything burns in a kaboom.

Secondly, the Hangar of Saabs was never shown by TV. It was only the tarmac and flight line across the runway, where the IL-76 and C-130's were parked. The building with the semi-circular roof. That is across the runway. THe Saab hangar is to the east end of the runway, and then going south from there.

Again I say, why there has to be smoke? A aircraft can be rendered useless without blowing it up in smokes. A aircraft structure is weak if a RPG explodes near it's nose.


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## Irfan Baloch

Thorough Pro said:


> What if in a future incident, initial attack is launched by a smaller decoy team far away from the actual target, and when the security teams are focussed there, a second or third major attack is launched on the actual target?



thats one of the basic gorilla tactic, confuse the defenders about the direction and number of the attackers.



> What happened to the good old watch towers with search lights, snipers and machine guns?
> 
> Why can't PAF use drones or attack helis equipped with night visin to monitr/neutralize attackers?


thats a valid point and thats what I meant in my earlier posts when I mentioned electronic sensors and surveillance equipment and sentry training at a higher level


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## SamantK

Hyperion said:


> Nope, I don't agree. I have never ever trusted the human element. We are very complex creatures, where whose loyalties lie, no one knows.
> 
> Electronic counter measures FIRST and then the standard methods. We need to either find the fifth column within, OR, find the complacent arses in the armed forces, and boot them out. Enough is enough!



How do you trust any one then? 

ECM first fine, but as I said these are also very important things.

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## Hyperion

samantk said:


> How do you trust any one then?
> 
> ECM first fine, but as I said these are also very important things.


OK. Only once we have the the ECM's in place and then a standard lie detector tests for all the sentries @ USD Billion+ areas of interest!

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## TAC

nuclearpak said:


> Why the F does there have to be smoke???? It was not a direct hit on the plane. Planes are kept without fuel in Hangars and shelters. Not everything burns in a kaboom.
> 
> Secondly, the Hangar of Saabs was never shown by TV. It was only the tarmac and flight line across the runway, where the IL-76 and C-130's were parked. The building with the semi-circular roof. That is across the runway. THe Saab hangar is to the east end of the runway, and then going south from there.
> 
> 
> 
> Again I say, why there has to be smoke? A aircraft can be rendered useless without blowing it up in smokes. A aircraft structure is weak if a RPG explodes near it's nose.



Ifs buts and maybes. So how come the same PAF spokesman you are reffering to is quoted as saying 'slight' damage to 1 aircraft -- and I can give you links .......... e-paper pakistantoday 17th august, 2012


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## SamantK

Hyperion said:


> OK. Only once we have the the ECM's in place and then a standard lie detector tests for all the sentries @ USD Billion+ areas of interest!



Lie detectors can be cheated, Narco test anyone?

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## Ticker

I don't find any gentleman here who is an expert in physical security or integrated security management system employed for such kind of large facilities. Most of the suggestions I have seen here are not professionally inclined in many ways.

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## Jango

TAC said:


> Ifs buts and maybes. So how come the same PAF spokesman you are reffering to is quoted as saying 'slight' damage to 1 aircraft -- and I can give you links .......... e-paper pakistantoday 17th august, 2012



You do know how many times the PAF spokesman has changed his statement?

That's i say, don't believe anything from them, or from any source. Everything is shrouded in secrecy.

BTW, you didn't answer my original query.


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## TAC

nuclearpak said:


> You do know how many times the PAF spokesman has changed his statement?
> 
> That's i say, don't believe anything from them, or from any source. Everything is shrouded in secrecy.
> 
> BTW, you didn't answer my original query.



Please do share links for where this particular PAF spokesman has 'changed his story'. Initialy and breifly it was reported that there was no damage - Since then every report I have seen - he says the same - 1 aircraft damaged. As for question about smoke -- ok so now 2 Saabs have been toasted but terrorists we carefull not to make any smoke? I don't want to waste time on speculated circumstances. You have the ACM's comments, you have very detailed comments from the Defence Minister, You have the spokesman quoted as saying slight damage, you have independant but knowledgable people like Shahid Lateefs comments. Should be more than enough but if people are desperate to hear that the fleet is wiped out - nothing will be enough.


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## XYON

TAC said:


> So you think the base commander sat there and thought - O crap - I've cocked up big - so better go and take a bullit in the arm to show I did my best ---- OR ---- do you think he may have thought - I am not going to sit here and wait for the wireless to tell me what has happened - I am going to get out there and personaly make sure that each one of these dogs is dead before doing any damage to the base I am responsible for.
> At a base where a 20 year old sentry fought bravely for 12 minutes and gave the ultimate sacrifice -- I'll let others decide which of the two thought processes went through the same bases commander in cheif.



That is my point ---- the base commander DID NOT THINK! And the damage WAS done to the Base! Period!


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## Safriz

We Pakistanis are always reluctant to giving credit to someone even if they deserve it..
All we can do is criticize...

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## XYON

Safriz said:


> We Pakistanis are always reluctant to giving credit to someone even if they deserve it..
> All we can do is criticize...



My tax paying money went into the buying of the expensive PAF assets that were destroyed! You bet your rear-end I am going to criticize! The Base Commander deserves NO credit and ZERO sympathy

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## Irfan Baloch

Hyperion said:


> Nope, I don't agree. I have never ever trusted the human element. We are very complex creatures, where whose loyalties lye, no one knows.
> 
> Electronic counter measures FIRST and then the standard methods. We need to either find the fifth column within, OR, find the complacent arses in the armed forces, and boot them out. Enough is enough!



chief human element is priceless. the electronics and computers have not reached the level of human inference and perception. yet. in the end it has to be a a mixed bag. we have all the sensors and gizmos at airport but its the old fashioned human frisking and strip search that does the job where sensors sometimes fail. I advocate a perfect mix of man and machinery.

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## Safriz

XYON said:


> My tax paying money went into the buying of the expensive PAF assets that were destroyed! You bet your rear-end I am going to criticize! The Base Commander deserves NO credit and ZERO sympathy



Looking at the Facts and figures there is 99% probability that the terrorists never made it to the second wall surrounding the AWACS hanger,and i too have heard all the Rumors of Hanger demolition/AWACS burnt to bits/RPG demolishing SAAB 2000,as it its a balloon which got punctured....Terrorists sunbathing on the roof of Hanger while SSG were running around like headless chicken..

But its superhuman to get unharmed through 4 check posts surrounding the hanger.....and that also when they were already on high alert
But


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## Masterio92

Safriz said:


> We Pakistanis are always reluctant to giving credit to someone even if they deserve it..
> All we can do is criticize...



Criticism lay a strong foundation for learning to occur.You cant approve anything blindly. It helps bring new perspectives and insights into the situation.


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## forcetrip

If only there was someway to send electronic signals to suicide vests to detonate approaching an area..


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## Safriz

forcetrip said:


> If only there was someway to send electronic signals to suicide vests to detonate approaching an area..



there is...



Mohammad_Mehmood said:


> Troll post.................



i know who you are....
you were banned at least three times during the last week...
be ready again...hopefully.


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## Imran Khan

now talk abut solutions i think every base should be equip with these made in pakistan Surveillance Systems

*
Night Observation Device (NOD)*

Category : Observation System
Manufacturer :
Detail






GIDS/ATCOP Night Observation Device (NOD) is a Portable, Long Range Multi-Sensor System for Observation and Surveillance.It can also be utilized for target acquisition, border patrol and perimeter security. The NOD system also comprises of digital magnetic compass, GPS, Pan and tilt unit.

* Area Surveillance
* Forward

Observation

* Target Acquisition
* Perimeter Security
* Search and Rescue
* Border Patrol



*Surveillance System*

Category : Observation System
Manufacturer :
Detail


GIDS/ATCOP Surveillance System can be utilized during the day and night for forward observation, target acquisition and border monitoring. It has the capability to determine the range of required targets. Other functions can be made available on customers request. It can also be used to secure government and other vital facilities. The complete system comes with a remote control to precisely pan and tilt the view from a distance.

* Area Surveillance
* Forward Observation
* Border Patrol
* Target Acquisition





i post few month before a system made in Pakistan for secure sites . its buried underground and when human cross over it they can detect numbers and size ETC damn i missed it now can someone find it ?

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## Hyperion

Irfan Baloch said:


> chief human element is priceless. the electronics and computers have not reached the level of human inference and perception. yet. in the end it has to be a a mixed bag. we have all the sensors and gizmos at airport but its the old fashioned human frisking and strip search that does the job where sensors sometimes fail.* I advocate a perfect mix of man and machinery.*



I agree. 

Moreover, to the point, we need to integrate these "electronic sensors" and open-soure-systems into one "integrated perimeter defense" system, by writing the source code ourselves. It can't be that tough?

If I can plan, code and execute such a system for my own residence on a smaller scale (OpenWrt (I/O) + RouterOS (Home Cooked) + Off the shelf sensors and cameras), then why not Pakistan as a country? I'm sure it has a huge pool of amazing talent and resources at it's disposal!

Yes I'm paranoid.

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## SamantK

Hyperion said:


> I agree.
> 
> Moreover, to the point, we need to integrate these "electronic sensors" and open-soure-systems into one "integrated perimeter defense" system, by writing the source code ourselves. It can't be that tough?
> 
> If I can plan, code and execute such a system for my own residence on a smaller scale (OpenWrt (I/O) + RouterOS (Home Cooked) + Off the shelf sensors and cameras), then why not Pakistan as a country? I'm sure it has a huge pool of amazing talent and resources at it's disposal!
> 
> Yes I'm paranoid.




The dare these terrorists have shown, especially in targeting you military (Without retribution), the Pakistani Forces need to be paranoid.

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## Hyperion

samantk said:


> The dare these terrorists have shown, especially in targeting you military (Without retribution), the Pakistani Forces need to be paranoid.



If I were in control, whole of Pakistan's population would have an additional column in their National Identity Cards (NIC's)

Additional Column: Tested on lie detector |YES| |NO|

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> I agree.
> 
> Moreover, to the point, we need to integrate these "electronic sensors" and open-soure-systems into one "integrated perimeter defense" system, by writing the source code ourselves. It can't be that tough?
> 
> If I can plan, code and execute such a system for my own residence on a smaller scale (OpenWrt (I/O) + RouterOS (Home Cooked) + Off the shelf sensors and cameras), then why not Pakistan as a country? I'm sure it has a huge pool of amazing talent and resources at it's disposal!
> 
> Yes I'm paranoid.



Probably because we're broke and you're not ! So unless your willing to donate a couple of year's income from those Hotels and Construction Companies...we're going to do it the old-fashioned way; however out-dated they maybe !

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## SamantK

Hyperion said:


> If I were in control, whole of Pakistan's population would have an additional column in their National Identity Cards (NIC's)
> 
> Additional Column: Tested on lie detector |YES| |NO|



You can put another one, ****** yes/no (How does that sound )

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## Hyperion

Armstrong said:


> Probably because we're broke and you're not ! So unless your willing to donate a couple of year's income from those Hotels and Construction Companies...we're going to do it the old-fashioned way; however out-dated they maybe !



It's dirt cheap mate. The only thing it requires is coding and planning an impregnable system. I can even recommend certain Turkish companies that can do the job and secure 20SqKm area under USD5Million. Do you think that it is an excessive amount securing a compound with a billion dollar + worth of equipment? No it's not!

You're studying accounting, when you progress to finance and financial planning, you'll come across a very interesting concept called "cost of business"

So the cost of defending an airbase. What is it?

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## Jango

Safriz said:


> Looking at the Facts and figures there is 99% probability that the terrorists never made it to the second wall surrounding the AWACS hanger,and i too have heard all the Rumors of Hanger demolition/AWACS burnt to bits/RPG demolishing SAAB 2000,as it its a balloon which got punctured....Terrorists sunbathing on the roof of Hanger while SSG were running around like headless chicken..
> 
> But its superhuman to get unharmed through 4 check posts surrounding the hanger.....and that also when they were already on high alert
> But



So now it has become 4 check posts from 3?

There is only the outer perimeter, and then a DSG sitting with his rifle and a charpayee, and when the CO or the Squadron leader or some officer comes for surprise visit at night, he does the usual drill, jumps up, shouts some cautions, officer say, stand ease.


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## Mani2020

nuclearpak said:


> You do know how many times the PAF spokesman has changed his statement?
> 
> That's i say, don't believe anything from them, or from any source. Everything is shrouded in secrecy.
> 
> BTW, you didn't answer my original query.



Leave this guy alone ,he is a big headache .He will keep repeating the same lines all day along but will not come onto any solid arguments. Check out his posts in this as well as other forums .He has kept on repeating same lines in a different way in all his posts . No one is saying him that what we say is 100% right but atleast you have enough substance to involve into an argument that has various prospects and angles but not like paf spokes person paf spokesperson and paf spokesperson , he is not willing to agree on the point that how many times the statements contradicted . Ok suppose you (nuclearpak) are wrong but the guy should have some arguments or logics to prove that why the spokes person contradicted initially etc 
But all i am hearing is only one line .

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## Jango

Now that we have come to the debate of electronics, one thing has to be made sure, that these are not cheap home-grown, 502 Wkshp versions.

We want to get a fire-tender, for 1.5 crore a pot, the project manager says i will make it locally for 85 lakh, the Brig wants it 60 lakh, very well. It gets made for 60 lakh, and after 4 months, you get to know how much reliable that was, and it is on a visit to 502 Wkshp again.

We have to stop thinking that these workshops are manufacturing facilities, they are repair facilities, and should be treated as such. The Army/PAF should look to eiter doing this through a proper company, and then also be wiling to pay the cost, or then to some other solution, rather than using money and wasting it.



Mani2020 said:


> Leave this guy alone ,he is a big headache .He will keep repeating the same lines all day along but will not come onto any solid arguments. Check out his posts in this as well as other forums .He has kept on repeating same lines in a different way in all his posts . No one is saying him that what we say is 100% right but atleast you have enough substance to involve into an argument that has various prospects and angles but not like paf spokes person paf spokesperson and paf spokesperson , he is not willing to agree on the point that how many times the statements contradicted . Ok suppose you (nuclearpak) are wrong but the guy should have some arguments or logics to prove that why the spokes person contradicted initially etc
> But all i am hearing is only one line .



I may be wrong, but atleast provide a logical counter-argument.

He still didn't say why there has to be fire to damage a airplane, in regard to it's airframe.

CHalo bhai, khair hai.


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## notsuperstitious

While the discussion on perimeter security is very interesting to read, the real solution lies some place else. Its not very creditable to be in this position in the first place.

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## XYON

Imran Khan said:


> now talk abut solutions i think every base should be equip with these made in pakistan Surveillance Systems
> 
> *
> Night Observation Device (NOD)*
> 
> Category : Observation System
> Manufacturer :
> Detail
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GIDS/ATCOP Night Observation Device (NOD) is a Portable, Long Range Multi-Sensor System for Observation and Surveillance.It can also be utilized for target acquisition, border patrol and perimeter security. The NOD system also comprises of digital magnetic compass, GPS, Pan and tilt unit.
> 
> * Area Surveillance
> * Forward
> 
> Observation
> 
> * Target Acquisition
> * Perimeter Security
> * Search and Rescue
> * Border Patrol
> 
> 
> 
> *Surveillance System*
> 
> Category : Observation System
> Manufacturer :
> Detail
> 
> 
> GIDS/ATCOP Surveillance System can be utilized during the day and night for forward observation, target acquisition and border monitoring. It has the capability to determine the range of required targets. Other functions can be made available on customers request. It can also be used to secure government and other vital facilities. The complete system comes with a remote control to precisely pan and tilt the view from a distance.
> 
> * Area Surveillance
> * Forward Observation
> * Border Patrol
> * Target Acquisition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i post few month before a system made in Pakistan for secure sites . its buried underground and when human cross over it they can detect numbers and size ETC damn i missed it now can someone find it ?



This is NOT the right equipment for base security. This device is assembled by AWC and is basically used for Artillery Fire Control & Ranging. Pakistan Army tested it recently at Tillah Ranges and rejected it!


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## Safriz

There was a C-130 Circling the base all night with a specialist Pod....


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## MastanKhan

Windjammer said:


> Walikum Hi Mastan Khan,
> 
> Sir, I am somewhat dismayed by your assumptions, calculations and conclusions. Albeit, other gentleman have answered your dilemma amicably, let me ask you bluntly, if a burglar was trying to break into your house in the wee hours, would you stand around until the police arrives, hope some neighbour will notice and come for your help or simply confront the culprit even if it means launching an attack with your walking stick. !!!
> You are making it sound as if there were no pilots available hence the base commander had to fly the mission.
> This was only a natural reaction from a man in charge of his establishment. Is there anything to suggest what the base commander was doing at that time on that special night, sleeping, praying, preparing for his fast. ???
> All salutes to him for leading from the front and setting an example. Let's not assume what could have happened since most of us are not in a position to even imagine what procedures were in place and what actions were executed, however all in all it seems the operation was regular as clockwork.



Hi,

If he reflexed under the 'natural reaction'---then that was an error in judgement----. He should have fallen back on his training---if he had received any in this regard. And that mean---to designate authority---. He is the CEO of the base---it is not his job to clean the 'dirty toilet'---or the clear the 'rat infestation'---or to clear 'encroachment' on his property---. He is not the peon---he is not the orderly---he is not a foot soldier---he should and must not act as one.

He is the 'GODFATHER" of the base----you know when a godfather picks up a weapon----when it is the last ditch effort---. There is security parameter around the godfather----it has to be breached at first for him to react on his own----.

So---your analogy about my house being burglarized is wrong------because in my house---other than my wife and kids, I am the only and one fisrt and last line of defence---so it is a bad example---the largest millitary base of pakistan under threat.

Young man---think think think----think without anger---think without prejudice---think to learn---snapping back at me ain't gonna do anything to me except to upset me more---that my kids don't have any learning capabilities----when they are taught new things or they are told about issues other than what they believe in---they start balking and show anger at why they are being told things different to what they have believed in for so long.

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## Rafi

A total bloody shambles by the so-called Pakistanis on this forum. I refuse to play your game, it's almost like you losers are sad that the takfiri scum was sent to hell.

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## XYON

This perimeter e-fence solution is something that could have prevented this attack to a great extent!

Perimeter Security, Warehouse Security: Flexiguard Perimeter Intrusion Detection System (PIDS)

Also watch the video that explains the e-fence function. This e-fence coupled with day/night PTZ cameras, intruder alarms, thermal imaging towers with auto zoom is perhaps the best solution.


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## MastanKhan

Peregrine said:


> Mastan Sahib,
> It's not about who you are, where you are and what you study. It's a simple matter of common sense and humanity; you see people in trouble, you try to help them out irrespective of what the SOP's are. The base commander in question, has earned my respect, he is a true hero of the nation and will be praised. With that said, it's Eid in USA, so Eid Muabarak!




Hi,

Thank you for giving me another oppurtunity----it is also a part of strategic game plan by the enemy to flush you out---create a scenario where innocent are hurt---they need help---your security detail goes out to help them---you are left exposed---you are done.

You are are giving security---you have your hand on the gun hidden under your jacket---an older person stumbles and is falling in front of you---you move your hand away from the gun to help assist---your humanity just killed the one you were protecting---.

There is nothing personal or of disrespect in my post against you or the others---I just want to kids to look and think out of the box.



Oscar said:


> This part I agree with, but since you are aware of the Pakistani mindset.. you should know that we are incapable of showing initiative on our own unless egged on by a senior or otherwise. The Base commander did exactly that..should he have done better in his training(or rather the air force).. in showing initiative.. ?
> YEs.. but you and all others are also familiar with the mindset prevalent in the Pakistani military of not rocking the boat and not questioning authority..
> When no officer claps in a ceremony till the Air Chief does so, what makes you think the very officers will display initiative in a firefight. The whole system of training is pathetic throughout Pakistan's Military.
> 
> As an example I am posting a quote from ACdre Kaiser Tufails blog on his observations as Base Commander Jacobabad during the US presence there.
> 
> 
> 
> So what the Base commander did, within the confines of the system he has been trained in and operates in .. is commendable.
> What he did with respect to the overall picture of dealing with terrorism is not. But blaming the base commander is like catching small fry and castrating it for no reason when the whole sea is filled with sick fish.




Hi,

Thank you---'jacobabad diaries' must be a must read for every pakistani in high school and college and university----.

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## MastanKhan

Ticker said:


> I don't find any gentleman here who is an expert in physical security or integrated security management system employed for such kind of large facilities. Most of the suggestions I have seen here are not professionally inclined in many ways.



Hi,

You are so correct in your judgement----the thing is---that what is coming out---if there was common sense security deployed---the terrorists would not have had the oppurtunity---two three men security teams in multiple teams making rounds on bicycles---dog patrols---watch towers with a minimum of two personales---was all that was supposedly needed----.

But my question is ---where are the millitary dogs----or does pak millitary don't have dogs any more---.

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## SamantK

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You are so correct in your judgement----the thing is---that what is coming out---if there was common sense security deployed---the terrorists would not have had the oppurtunity---two three men security teams in multiple teams making rounds on bicycles---dog patrols---watch towers with a minimum of two personales---was all that was supposedly needed----.
> 
> But my question is ---where are the millitary dogs----or does pak millitary don't have dogs any more---.



Dogs, touching dogs is not considered a very good thing by muslims right?


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## iPhone

Being in law enforcement here I have served under some gutless supervisors who in hairy situations ran like chickens. We felt like slapping them next time they had the nerve to share their war stories with us. 
This man, the base commander has my utmost respect. Not many leaders could what he did. And of course all the props to Shaheed Asif. God bless his soul.

Anyway, Eid Mubarak sir Mastan Khan and my fellow Pakistani brothers.
Regards- Zulfiqar

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> It's dirt cheap mate. The only thing it requires is coding and planning an impregnable system. I can even recommend certain Turkish companies that can do the job and secure 20SqKm area under USD5Million. Do you think that it is an excessive amount securing a compound with a billion dollar + worth of equipment? No it's not!
> 
> You're studying accounting, when you progress to finance and financial planning, you'll come across a very interesting concept called "cost of business"
> 
> So the cost of defending an airbase. What is it?



'Cost of Business' - Are you talking about the Weighted Average Cost of Capital which in turn has the Cost of Equity and the Cost of Debt Financing as its elements or are you talking about the opportunity cost of something or are you talking about something completely different and I'm making a fool of myself here ! 

Khair, *Khan Sahib*, I know that we can debate all that we want about what should or shouldn't be done but I think that we often loose sight of the fact that those guys who are charged with governance (in the Armed Forces !) aren't dodos and they do know what challenges they face ? What needs to be done ? And what could be done, in terms of the available finances and relations ? So if they haven't done it...I'm sure its because they've gone through those stages or that checklist and found it either 'unneeded' or 'unattainable' to do so !

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## danger007

.
Intelligent Video Analytics

This is a highly specialized software component that forms the heart of a modern video surveillance network. The incoming video data from cameras are processed in real time to detect any unusual objects, unusual movements or anomalies in camera images. This software is also capable of matching objects detected on camera with records in suspicious object database to identify weapons etc.
.



.
.
Other forms of Security & Surveillance Systems

.
Aerial Surveillance

Surveillance done with a bird&#8217;s eye view is the most effective form since it offers a complete picture of the activity area & its surroundings. Aerial Surveillance is such a solution that will offer a complete view of the designated location precisely thereby helping the authorities to take decisions that are more effective & informed.

Our offering includes a wide variety of aerial surveillance solutions that can add value to security & surveillance measures

Typical deployments of Aerial Surveillance include:

Unmanned Aerial Vehicles
Camera mounted Balloons

.
Perimeter Intruder Detection & Protection Systems

These are expert solutions that are designed to detect intrusions at boundaries and perimeters of installations that need to be secured.

This solution utilizes a specialized array of active or passive (PIR) infrared sensors & motion sensors to detect intrusion accurately. The electrical fencing systems can be clubbed with this to offer higher level of security by making it more difficult for the intruder from entering the premises. Installation of day-night cameras along the perimeter can add further value by enabling visual monitoring of activities around the perimeter.

Perimeter protection systems essentially are outdoor deployments. Hence they are subject to vagaries of weather. They need to be robust in construction and must be designed to avoid false and nuisance alarms on account of extraneous factors not related to actual threats. Several types of sensors are employed which can either be visible or lend itself to covert installations. The vulnerability of these sensors to damage due to manhandling or vandalism also need to be taken into account.

Perimeter security sensors are available with two distinctive operational attributes, Line-of-sight (LOS) or Volumetric. Volumetric sensors are usually terrain following in nature and are extremely difficult to defeat. Some typical examples are Megnetometric, Ported Cable and Bistatic Microwave sensors.

Perimeter surveillance technologies normally use:

Buried Cables
Seismic Transducers
Active or Passive Infra-red
Taut Wire
Electric Fencing
Bistatic Microwave
Ported Coaxial Cable or Fiber Optic Cable
Video Motion Detectors
HCL Security: Surveillance Solutions

.


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## Kompromat

I find it funny how India can blame us for "mass exodus" happening 2000 Kms away from our geographic border but we can't blame India for a terrorist attack , oh i remember we are so ******* nice !

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## SamantK

Aeronaut said:


> I find it funny how India can blame us for "mass exodus" happening 2000 Kms away from our geographic border but we can't blame India for a terrorist attack , oh i remember we are so ******* nice !



If I may ask, true or not, Pakistan reject it without any investigation.. If India blames as if Pakistan accepts..

You should delete your post, you are off-topic and give yourself an infraction


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## KS

Aeronaut said:


> I find it funny how India can blame us for "mass exodus" happening 2000 Kms away from our geographic border but we can't blame India for a terrorist attack , oh i remember we are so ******* nice !



Actually you can blame India or Afghan agencies. Even I dont believe these terrorists could organize such a planned mission and all for what ? Taking out an AWACS ? Yeah it will be a huge moral booster for them, but the real tangible gains for taking out an AWACS lies only to one party. But I would not be apologetic about that. Military targets,facilities are fair game in the cat-mouse ops between two countries.

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## KRAIT

Aeronaut said:


> I find it funny how India can blame us for "mass exodus" happening 2000 Kms away from our geographic border but we can't blame India for a terrorist attack , oh i remember we are so ******* nice !


Actually your blame started in your media channel when Kamra got attacked, the role of Pakistan in exodus started with today's news. So actually you set the ball in motion....If you can blame India behind Kamra, why can't we blame you after that.

I don't deny possible Indian hand in this attack, but be reasonable when a doubt against you is raised buddy. 

This has been done in past too....Our politicians always put blame on external forces to hide their incompetence to provide security and other failures.

Better understand that the fault is also in the system too. As well as external threats are also real.


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## Kompromat

KRAIT said:


> Actually your blame started in your media channel when Kamra got attacked, the role of Pakistan in exodus started with today's news. So actually you set the ball in motion....If you can blame India behind Kamra, why can't we blame you after that.
> 
> I don't deny possible Indian hand in this attack, but be reasonable when a doubt against you is raised buddy.
> 
> This has been done in past too....Our politicians always put blame on external forces to hide their incompetence to provide security and other failures.
> 
> Better understand that the fault is also in the system too. As well as external threats are also real.




Please make a distinction about media [owned by idiots in both countries] and politicians who are elected representatives of the people.


Firstly i am yet to see Pakistani media pointing an explicit finger at India not "hinting". On the other hand blame on Pakistan came from your home secretary who is an elected representative and what he says becomes official. Pakistani media is not a public representative and i am yet to see a single blame directly laid on India.

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## Windjammer

Aeronaut said:


> I find it funny how India can blame us for "mass exodus" happening 2000 Kms away from our geographic border but we can't blame India for a terrorist attack , oh i remember we are so ******* nice !


 
Mercifully they didn't blame us for the tricky carburettor that punched their air out.


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## Thorough Pro

Hi windhammer,

I don't think you can compare a burglar in a home with a terrorsit attack at the base. At home the owner himself is responsible for the security and even then if the burglars are armed and he runs to meet them unarmed would be pure stupidity and it would be wise to wait for the police to arrive, if the burglars take ou or anyone of your family member hostage, the situation would be worst than before.

In case of attack on the base, base commander running around unarmed does not make any sense, what possibly could he have achieved by being in the vicinity of firefight? tell the SSG team where to shoot? are they not capable to do it rhemselves?

What if while he was running around on one front, a seconfd or third terorist team team attacks from other directions on other targets? who would take charge of the control room, take the full picture in and devise strategy to tackle that? I think it enough to say that what he did was courageous, but a big big blunder, simply put a bse commander is not suppoosed to engage in fire fights when he has a security set up on his disposal to do the same. 



Windjammer said:


> Walikum Hi Mastan Khan,
> 
> Sir, I am somewhat dismayed by your assumptions, calculations and conclusions. Albeit, other gentleman have answered your dilemma amicably, let me ask you bluntly, if a burglar was trying to break into your house in the wee hours, would you stand around until the police arrives, hope some neighbour will notice and come for your help or simply confront the culprit even if it means launching an attack with your walking stick. !!!
> You are making it sound as if there were no pilots available hence the base commander had to fly the mission.
> This was only a natural reaction from a man in charge of his establishment. Is there anything to suggest what the base commander was doing at that time on that special night, sleeping, praying, preparing for his fast. ???
> All salutes to him for leading from the front and setting an example. Let's not assume what could have happened since most of us are not in a position to even imagine what procedures were in place and what actions were executed, however all in all it seems the operation was regular as clockwork.

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## Imran Khan

lets talk abut replacement for one minute if a saab is distoryed now PAF will must replace it . what you guys think abut ? PAF will send J-019 for fitting on it erieye ?


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## Windjammer

Thorough Pro said:


> Hi windhammer,
> 
> I don't think you can compare a burglar in a home with a terrorsit attack at the base. At home the owner himself is responsible for the security and even then if the burglars are armed and he runs to meet them unarmed would be pure stupidity and it would be wise to wait for the police to arrive, if the burglars take ou or anyone of your family member hostage, the situation would be worst than before.
> 
> In case of attack on the base, base commander running around unarmed does not make any sense, what possibly could he have achieved by being in the vicinity of firefight? tell the SSG team where to shoot? are they not capable to do it rhemselves?
> 
> What if while he was running around on one front, a seconfd or third terorist team team attacks from other directions on other targets? who would take charge of the control room, take the full picture in and devise strategy to tackle that? I think it enough to say that what he did was courageous, but a big big blunder, simply put a bse commander is not suppoosed to engage in fire fights when he has a security set up on his disposal to do the same.



What i am saying is these are all assumptions. Let's be realistic, on that fateful night, no emergency was in place, hence i doubt the base at that hour was launching or recovering any flights, hence there was no real reason for the base commander to be manning his station. Maybe he ran out of his living quarters to see or find out what's happening, may be he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, but it's ludacris to conclude that he grabbed the gun since security wasn't in place. !!


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## Ticker

Let me highlight some of the available technologies which help maintain physical security for various types of facilities. 

Just for information, there are night vision cameras available which can read the number of a vehicle from even 6-8 KMs. Identifying an individual and taking his photo at such distance is not a problem these days. 

Secondly, the ruggedized systems mentioned on some earlier posts are meant for field operations and are pretty old models as well. The newer models are much smaller and more advanced. 

EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL SENSOR TECHNOLOGIES
	Microwave
	Passive/Active infrared
	Ultrasonic
	Balanced magnetic switch
	Proximity
	Sonic
	Vibration
	Video motion detection
	Laser
	Passive Magnetic Concealed Sensor Cable
	Fence Intrusion Sensors - Fiber

SURVEILLANCE
	HD Cameras
	Tower Mounted Cameras
	Hidden Cameras
	Body Worn
	Thermal
	Patrol Vehicle Cameras

Video Analytical System

To integrate the available systems, many more aspects have to be added in the above mentioned items.

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## Thorough Pro

True, Nation does not spend millions for an individual to get shadat, for that we can send them in untrained. Shadat should be an outcome of a courageous fight, not the sole objective.

Protecting one's life is the highest responsibility of every person, and in doing so he is alowed to take his oponents life even in non-war scenarios.




Developereo said:


> The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his. &#8213; George S. Patton Jr.


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## Hyperion

Rafi said:


> A total bloody shambles by the so-called Pakistanis on this forum. I refuse to play your game, it's almost like you losers are sad that the takfiri scum was sent to hell.


I don't know what a Takfiri is, however if you're referring to the dead insurgents, then good riddance! I just wish that they should have enjoyed more pain in an interrogation room, before meeting the 72 dudes!

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## Jango

fateh71 said:


> While the discussion on perimeter security is very interesting to read, the real solution lies some place else. Its not very creditable to be in this position in the first place.


 
Defend as far as tactically feasible.

These attacks are planned in Afghanistan, so that is out. But when they enter Pakistan, we should be actively searching for them rather than re-actively. Once they set out, they will do damage, f not to Kamra, then to some place else. Nakas with half awake policemen, well one policeman, the other are busy in gup shup, is not going to do the job.

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## Armstrong

Hyperion said:


> I don't know what a Takfiri is, however if you're referring to the dead insurgents, then good riddance! I just wish that they should have enjoyed more pain in an interrogation room, before meeting the 72 dudes!


 
Takfir can be loosely translated to 'excommunication' in English !

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## Hyperion

Armstrong said:


> Takfir can be loosely translated to 'excommunication' in English !


Thanks yara! 

Time to enjoy bombay biryani. See you in 40

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## Pak47

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/203547-mastermind-kamra-airbase-attack-arrested.html


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## Thorough Pro

Is this how it is supposed to be, a base commander running out to find out whats happening? What happend to the modern communication. This was only a terrorist attack, what will he do in a real war if the base comes under attack, run to the AAA battery? What we are arguing is he as the base commande rhas a bigger role to play, a larger picture to see, utilize the training and experience he has been given to achieve the objectives, not showing his personal courage and bravery. Let the men on the ground do their job, they can take care of 9/10 terrorists on their own. 

No one is supposed to be on duty 24/7, he may well have been asleep at that time, and tha tis quite acceptable too. In larger organizations like millitary, specific roles and duties are assigned. If this was not something he was supposed to do, he violated the rules and could have caused more mayhem than good. 



Windjammer said:


> What i am saying is these are all assumptions. Let's be realistic, on that fateful night, no emergency was in place, hence i doubt the base at that hour was launching or recovering any flights, hence there was no real reason for the base commander to be manning his station. *Maybe he ran out of his living quarters to see or find out what's happening,* may be he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, but it's ludacris to conclude that he grabbed the gun since security wasn't in place. !!

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## Jango

Pak47 said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/203547-mastermind-kamra-airbase-attack-arrested.html



Financial support, not the tactical!

BTW, that was fast!

But, hey, no confirmation from PAF, and no source mentioned in the article, I think we should wait then!


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## Darth Vader

LAHORE: It was the 27th night of the Islamic month of Ramadan in Pakistan, one of the holiest nights for Muslims worldwide. At around 0200 hours PST, one of Pakistan Air Force's most crucial airbase 'Minhas' which is situated in Kamra city, trembled when its control room received radio calls from a boundary checkpost that it has come under attack. The call was from Sepoy Muhammad Asif, a young security officer who was the first one to challenge the intruders.




Although just 20 years old by age, Sepoy Muhammad Asif engaged 6-7 terrorists alone with his G-3 rifle at the checkpost when they failed to identify themselves since they were wearing military uniforms. The terrorists were armed with AK-47 rifles, RPG-7s and an assortment of hand grenades. Despite being outnumbered, Sepoy Muhammad Asif gave a stiff resistance and 3 terrorists were killed in the crossfire. After 15 minutes of continuous gunfire exchange, the terrorists managed to overrun the checkpost but not before Sepoy Muhammad Asif was martyred. His body showed signs of physical resistance which indicate that he had even fought the terrorists by hand before eventually sacrificing his life for his motherland.

The resistance that Sepoy Muhammad Asif gave to the terrorists resulted in two significant developments for the forces: First, that the control room was put on alert quite well in advance which allocated reasonable time to send the urgency call to the Special Service Wing (SSW) commandos to prepare for the assault against the terrorists. Second, the terrorists were split into two teams but the unexpected death of 3 of their comrades at the very start of the attack forced them to change their plan. This resulted in panic which quickly spread among their ranks.

The next thing that the terrorists did was to fire RPGs at the hanger side of the base. Fortunately, the targets were not accurate as they were firing it from quite a long distance, technically still standing outside the base premises. Here, the point to be noted is that these militants were so well informed that they had proper HUMINT of exactly which hanger had the Saab-2000 Erieye AEW&C parked inside. One rocket did manage to strike the said hanger's gate though, which resulted in minimal damage to an Erieye; yet another landed near an IL-86MP Tanker of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) which was parked near the runway in open. It also resulted in minimum damage to the aircraft. The PAF spokesman later confirmed that one aircraft was damaged but the identity of the plane was not revealed, even to this point.




The checkpost which the terrorists managed to cross was the first tier of security at the base; they were on their way to the second tier, which is also manned by personnel of the Pakistan Army like the outer checkposts, though here in greater numbers. The militants were engaged by the SSW commandos in between these two tiers. Two companies of the PAF's dedicated Elite SSW are deployed at the Minhas airbase. The terrorists had no way left to go then: They tried to run and hide in different directions while firing indiscriminately. This is the point in time when Base Commander Air Commodore Mahhammad Azam got injured. He was present on ground with the troops to boost their morale and received an injury in his arm; whether a bullet hit him or not is still not clear. Some sources said he was hit by a shrapnel.




The firefight continued for another half an hour. Meanwhile, the Special Service Group (SSG) commandos of the Pakistan Army had joined their SSW counterparts as reinforcements. The operation was still lead by SSW though, and at around 0400 hours (roughly two hours after the attack had took place), 4-5 terrorists were killed in a 30-40 minute battle with the commandos. None of them were able to detonate their suicide vests which were laden with enough amount of C-4 explosives to bring down a medium-sized building.





A PAF C-130 aircraft equipped with FLIR system Star Safire III EO/IR sensor ball was used to track the movement of the terrorists.

One Saab-2000 Erieye which was coincidentally on surveillance mission at the time of the attack, was ordered to stay airborne till the situation at ground was restored back to normal.

1-2 terrorists were left, who managed to show resistance for a few minutes but subsequently, they too were gunned down. When all hostiles were eliminated, the SSW/SSG started a joint search operation around the base and the premises adjacent to it.

One terrorist, the leader of the militant group, was hiding outside the base; he detonated his suicide vest and blew himself up when he sensed security forces were near him.

The search operation continued for 2-3 hours and a number of IEDs were defused from the combat area.

This attack by the terrorists belonging to the TTP was a very well-planned tactical operation, even more sophisticated than the infamous PNS Mehran attack, which was quite an embarrassment for the Pakistani military. But this time, due to the quick response of security forces and alertness on the basis of reflexive intelligence, a major attack was foiled. On an overall basis, the threat was eliminated before any strategic blow was received.

In the entire operation, the Pakistani Special Forces (SSG/SSW) received no casualties. Although two soldiers did embraced martyrdom: The first was Sepoy Muhammad Asif and the second was Sepoy Muhammad Iqbal, both of whom got wounded during the operation and breathed their last two days later in the hospital.

A total of 9 terrorists were eliminated during the successful operation by the Pakistani Special Forces.

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## Safriz

we have discussed this subject to death already?


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## BATMAN

XYON said:


> This perimeter e-fence solution is something that could have prevented this attack to a great extent!
> 
> Perimeter Security, Warehouse Security: Flexiguard&#8482; Perimeter Intrusion Detection System (PIDS)
> 
> Also watch the video that explains the e-fence function. This e-fence coupled with day/night PTZ cameras, intruder alarms, thermal imaging towers with auto zoom is perhaps the best solution.




All refineries/gas plants etc. installed in states like Africa, have similar perimeter in double and security vehicles patrol in between.

Whenever you touch any part of the fence the control room knows exactly where.

It is always part of the design specifications.. and is very basic package. I wonder which idiot prepared the design specs. of Pakistan's airbases and airports.

Additionally, high voltage tape, used in farms can be used to ward of astray animals etc..

We can also have flood lights, linked with motion sensors & proximity switch.

Imagine the battle was fought with night vision goggles!!!

No light? Pathetic state of affairs!


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## Jango

Who wrote this article?

Because I am pretty sure he should be knowing what a Il-86 is.



shahzadasweet said:


> Meanwhile, the Special Service Group (SSG) commandos of the Pakistan Army had joined their SSW counterparts as reinforcements. The operation was still lead by SSW though, and at around 0400 hours (roughly two hours after the attack had took place), 4-5 terrorists were killed in a 30-40 minute battle with the commandos.



If they had two hours after the attack until the SSW confrontation, what were they doing then? Definitely not baking pastries.

This slot is enough for them to do anything.


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## Jango

O bhai, these are Pakistani bases, not some other cash laden country.


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## BATMAN

Debris of false ceiling hints that, terrorist was inside the office building.
Could be.... he shot at base commander.


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## Imran Khan

Safriz said:


> we have discussed this subject to death already?



one thing is new here dear 

this picture and white powder on it . they used phosphors grenades on them ?


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## Jango

BATMAN said:


> Debris of false ceiling hints that, terrorist was inside the office building.
> Could be.... he shot at base commander.



But they were kept outside the base, near the boundary wall weren't they?, as per some, who said that they never got too far into the base. (notice the false ceiling, definitely not a outpost)

I think the picture is in black and white where the body is, to hide the blood.


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## Windjammer

nuclearpak said:


> But they were kept outside the base, near the boundary wall weren't they?, as per some, who said that they never got too far into the base. (notice the false ceiling, definitely not a outpost)
> 
> I think the picture is in black and white where the body is, to hide the blood.



From the naked wires it's obvious, it's some temporary hut or something, could even be sentry post, besides the picture is very much in colour, the yellow explosive on his chest and the green bottle on the ground.


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## BATMAN

Windjammer said:


> From the naked wires it's obvious, it's some temporary hut or something, could even be sentry post, besides the picture is very much in colour, the yellow explosive on his chest and the green bottle on the ground.



No.. the temporary huts are not furnished with false ceilings and fancy lighting fixtures.
Hanging wires could be result of false wall coming off as a result of fire.

As you pointed the explosive strap, he most likely went to the building to explode him self, but looks like he failed... for some miraculous reason.


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## Irfan Baloch

nuclearpak said:


> O bhai, these are Pakistani bases, not some other cash laden country.



our discussion needs to stitch to finding out
what actually is the security detail

number of checkposts and observation posts
number of manned posts and sentries
number of electronic surveillance equipment like CCTV
presence of any airborne observation and combat unit


its a false economy to try to save few hundred thousands and end up risking tens of millions in the process.
it is understandable that PAF wont be forthcoming in listing down the exact security details and procedures in place but the recent attack is a give away of what might have been in place.


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## Irfan Baloch

nuclearpak said:


> O bhai, these are Pakistani bases, not some other cash laden country.



our discussion needs to stitch to finding out
what actually is the security detail

number of checkposts and observation posts
number of manned posts and sentries
number of electronic surveillance equipment like CCTV
presence of any airborne observation and combat unit


its a false economy to try to save few hundred thousands and end up risking tens of millions in the process.
it is understandable that PAF wont be forthcoming in listing down the exact security details and procedures in place but the recent attack is a give away of what might have been in place.


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## Kompromat

Now that is a peaceful terrorist !

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## Windjammer

BATMAN said:


> No.. the temporary huts are not furnished with false ceilings and fancy lighting fixtures.
> Hanging wires could be result of false wall coming off as a result of fire.
> 
> As you pointed the explosive strap, he most likely went to the building to explode him self, but looks like he failed... for some miraculous reason.



I was pointing to the wires going through a hole on the left side of the entrance, the cement door frame also points to that it's not an inside structure. From other pictures, it's obvious others also had explosives strapped to their bodies.


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## BATMAN

Imran Khan said:


> one thing is new here dear
> 
> this picture and white powder on it . they used phosphors grenades on them ?



Apparently, proved very effective and most likely the reason why they all failed to explode them selves.

I wonder what the source of images and which media leaked them first!

I also failed to understand, how come security check posts allowed a group of 9 strapped with explosives and loaded with ammunition.... only, if they ever came across one!



Windjammer said:


> I was pointing to the wires going through a hole on the left side of the entrance, the cement door frame also points to that it's not an inside structure. From other pictures, it's obvious others also had explosives strapped to their bodies.



Windjamer, i was replying exactly to the same.

It was a concrete wall and ought to have a false wall of gypsum/wood etc.
I guess the naked concrete is a result of false wall falling down, hence taking with it the electrical receptacle fixture.
I seriously doubt that check posts design include, the fixture lying all over the place and I strongly believe it was some sort of permanent building, could be still under construction!!!!


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## Imran Khan

BATMAN said:


> I wonder what the source of images and which media leaked them first!
> !




PAF release them sir jee no one got from media in fact media got from PAF .


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## Windjammer

Check out these temporary huts in the back ground in Kamra, probably erected to keep some building material, such huts are also present on the parameter of the base and he probably tried to hide in one of them. If it was anywhere sensitive, the security forces wouldn't have used any such weapons.

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## Xestan

Windjammer is right. This guy was killed in one of those huts near the runway. And as far as I know, he was killed by a grenade attack from SSW commandos.


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## Developereo

Irfan Baloch said:


> chief human element is priceless. the electronics and computers have not reached the level of human inference and perception. yet. in the end it has to be a a mixed bag. we have all the sensors and gizmos at airport but its the old fashioned human frisking and strip search that does the job where sensors sometimes fail. I advocate a perfect mix of man and machinery.



Not to mention the weakest link in any surveillance system is still the human watching the electronic equipment. Unless we enable the electronic devices to use automatic lethal response, the decision and alertness still depends on the humans monitoring the equipment.


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## Developereo

nuclearpak said:


> O bhai, these are Pakistani bases, not some other cash laden country.



Let's not be too modest. If we have money to buy billion dollar assets, we have money to protect them. The cost should be factored in.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

shahzadasweet said:


> LAHORE: It was the 27th night of the Islamic month of Ramadan in Pakistan, one of the holiest nights for Muslims worldwide. At around 0200 hours PST, one of Pakistan Air Force's most crucial airbase 'Minhas' which is situated in Kamra city, trembled when its control room received radio calls from a boundary checkpost that it has come under attack. The call was from Sepoy Muhammad Asif, a young security officer who was the first one to challenge the intruders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although just 20 years old by age, Sepoy Muhammad Asif engaged 6-7 terrorists alone with his G-3 rifle at the checkpost when they failed to identify themselves since they were wearing military uniforms. The terrorists were armed with AK-47 rifles, RPG-7s and an assortment of hand grenades. Despite being outnumbered, Sepoy Muhammad Asif gave a stiff resistance and 3 terrorists were killed in the crossfire. After 15 minutes of continuous gunfire exchange, the terrorists managed to overrun the checkpost but not before Sepoy Muhammad Asif was martyred. His body showed signs of physical resistance which indicate that he had even fought the terrorists by hand before eventually sacrificing his life for his motherland.
> 
> The resistance that Sepoy Muhammad Asif gave to the terrorists resulted in two significant developments for the forces: First, that the control room was put on alert quite well in advance which allocated reasonable time to send the urgency call to the Special Service Wing (SSW) commandos to prepare for the assault against the terrorists. Second, the terrorists were split into two teams but the unexpected death of 3 of their comrades at the very start of the attack forced them to change their plan. This resulted in panic which quickly spread among their ranks.
> 
> The next thing that the terrorists did was to fire RPGs at the hanger side of the base. Fortunately, the targets were not accurate as they were firing it from quite a long distance, technically still standing outside the base premises. Here, the point to be noted is that these militants were so well informed that they had proper HUMINT of exactly which hanger had the Saab-2000 Erieye AEW&C parked inside. One rocket did manage to strike the said hanger's gate though, which resulted in minimal damage to an Erieye; yet another landed near an IL-86MP Tanker of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) which was parked near the runway in open. It also resulted in minimum damage to the aircraft. The PAF spokesman later confirmed that one aircraft was damaged but the identity of the plane was not revealed, even to this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The checkpost which the terrorists managed to cross was the first tier of security at the base; they were on their way to the second tier, which is also manned by personnel of the Pakistan Army like the outer checkposts, though here in greater numbers. The militants were engaged by the SSW commandos in between these two tiers. Two companies of the PAF's dedicated Elite SSW are deployed at the Minhas airbase. The terrorists had no way left to go then: They tried to run and hide in different directions while firing indiscriminately. This is the point in time when Base Commander Air Commodore Mahhammad Azam got injured. He was present on ground with the troops to boost their morale and received an injury in his arm; whether a bullet hit him or not is still not clear. Some sources said he was hit by a shrapnel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The firefight continued for another half an hour. Meanwhile, the Special Service Group (SSG) commandos of the Pakistan Army had joined their SSW counterparts as reinforcements. The operation was still lead by SSW though, and at around 0400 hours (roughly two hours after the attack had took place), 4-5 terrorists were killed in a 30-40 minute battle with the commandos. None of them were able to detonate their suicide vests which were laden with enough amount of C-4 explosives to bring down a medium-sized building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A PAF C-130 aircraft equipped with FLIR system Star Safire III EO/IR sensor ball was used to track the movement of the terrorists.
> 
> One Saab-2000 Erieye which was coincidentally on surveillance mission at the time of the attack, was ordered to stay airborne till the situation at ground was restored back to normal.
> 
> 1-2 terrorists were left, who managed to show resistance for a few minutes but subsequently, they too were gunned down. When all hostiles were eliminated, the SSW/SSG started a joint search operation around the base and the premises adjacent to it.
> 
> One terrorist, the leader of the militant group, was hiding outside the base; he detonated his suicide vest and blew himself up when he sensed security forces were near him.
> 
> The search operation continued for 2-3 hours and a number of IEDs were defused from the combat area.
> 
> This attack by the terrorists belonging to the TTP was a very well-planned tactical operation, even more sophisticated than the infamous PNS Mehran attack, which was quite an embarrassment for the Pakistani military. But this time, due to the quick response of security forces and alertness on the basis of reflexive intelligence, a major attack was foiled. On an overall basis, the threat was eliminated before any strategic blow was received.
> 
> In the entire operation, the Pakistani Special Forces (SSG/SSW) received no casualties. Although two soldiers did embraced martyrdom: The first was Sepoy Muhammad Asif and the second was Sepoy Muhammad Iqbal, both of whom got wounded during the operation and breathed their last two days later in the hospital.
> 
> A total of 9 terrorists were eliminated during the successful operation by the Pakistani Special Forces.




Pakistani Solider is a hero deserves Nishan-e Haidar ...


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

The more I read into---the more my worst fears are coming true---. From the article with the pictures of the lone warrior---it is very evident that there was hardly any base security at all---. The lone gunman fought them for 10 plus minutes all by himself---. Ten minutes is an eternity in an attack like this---.

Napoleon lost one of his major battles because his flanks delayed the move by one minute---. 10 minutes is a life time during an initial strikes---10 minutes is like forever when an assault starts---.

I don't see any pro-active preparations of confronting the terrorists at this base---. Now I see why the base commander got injured---. He was literally saving his ar-se. He knew he had fkcued up---so he decided to put his life on the line---.

I mean to say---look at the pictures of an earlier post---look at the security---two soldiers in dungarees---only one in combat fatigues---is this how pathetic and miserable my air force has become---the soldier in dungarees has a G3---no protective gear---no spare magazines---amazing stuff ain't it---and that also---after the strike----.

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## Jango

Developereo said:


> Let's not be too modest. If we have money to buy billion dollar assets, we have money to protect them. The cost should be factored in.


 
No amount of tech will stop a suicide bomber. Simple as that. Electric wires, whatever, that is never going to be feasible, as long as there is a village right next to the base. 

Problem is, it hasn't looked as if we can protect them on three occasions. let's hope a fourth one never comes.


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## Vassnti

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The more I read into---the more my worst fears are coming true---. From the article with the pictures of the lone warrior---it is very evident that there was hardly any base security at all---. The lone gunman fought them for 10 plus minutes all by himself---. Ten minutes is an eternity in an attack like this---.
> .



Thats the thing that doesnt make any sense to me. So many people saying it was a well planned attack and all credit to the bravery of Sepoy Muhammad Asif, it was 10 men against one. A well trained squad armed with RPGs grenades and explosives doesnt take 15 minutes to overrun one man with a rifle extra clip or not, especially when they know that reinforcments are close by and time is critical. Heck if you have 



> their suicide vests which were laden with enough amount of C-4 explosives to bring down a medium-sized building



one post 10 men each with five blocks of c4 strapped to his chest and no one made the obvious connection?

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## IceCold

What about an automated turret system? It use to be something used in strategy games but its been developed. Something like that should be installed. Anyone who crosses a certain threshold, and bang, the gun takes him out. Normal people once become aware would not want to risk and the only ones who want to risk will be terrorists.


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

Another amazing thing is---there are no machine guns nests pointing outside---there should have been a three man crew machine gun nests at multiple points---. PAF base security picture has as many hole as a tea leaf strainer----or a pakora strainer to make BAOONDI----.

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## Armstrong

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Another amazing thing is---there are no machine guns nests pointing outside---there should have been a three man crew machine gun nests at multiple points---. OAF base security picture has as many hole as a tea leaf strainer----or a pakora strainer to make BOONDI----.



*Mastan* yaaraa tell me something ? If we sitting here on our buttts can think up these things when most of us haven't the remotest connection to the military barring an interest in it and someone we may know who serves therein, why do we implicitly assume that the military itself is infested by dimwits who couldn't think up these things in the first place ? I'm sure they, being seasoned soldiers who live and breath this stuff, know what the bases needed, what were the available options and what the heck we could acquire ? If they didn't its probably that they arrived at that assessment after going through all of that first !

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## MastanKhan

Armstrong said:


> *Mastan* yaaraa tell me something ? If we sitting here on our buttts can think up these things when most of us haven't the remotest connection to the military barring an interest in it and someone we may know who serves therein, why do we implicitly assume that the military itself is infested by dimwits who couldn't think up these things in the first place ? I'm sure they, being seasoned soldiers who live and breath this stuff, know what the bases needed, what were the available options and what the heck we could acquire ? If they didn't its probably that they arrived at that assessment after going through all of that first !



Hi,

My good man---proof is in the pudding as they say---. And most of the time---in pakistan---what you see is what you get---.

In pakistan---there is no magic ball or a magic lamp or a genie in the bottle---. It is all very obvious---when you need to tie a rope around the barrel of a machine gun to attach it to a brace.

Principals of security have not changed---this not the security of a vault---or a computer system---. There is a secured area---people on foot want to invade and make a strike on assets placed in that arena---the area management need to create a security barrier so that the perforators cannot enter the premises---.

Now----what I want you and others to listen with open ears with your brains attentive---the reports are saying that the warrior gave them 10 minute time to pull security together----does this time have any significance at all on you people---.

I would also like to clear one thing---when it comes to my judgement call---please let me hang by the rope---you people may show yourself to be less capable and have praises for the professionals---but please leave me out of it---. My neck is stretched out too long----so please don't insult me---thank you.

You need machine gun nest---you need bike patrols---you need dog patrols---plus you need snipers---you need around 100---150 troops working in 4 to 6 hour shifts

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## Jango

MastanKhan said:


> You need machine gun nest---you need bike patrols---you need dog patrols---plus you need snipers---you need around 100---150 troops working in 4 to 6 hour shifts



Kamra needs a whole brigade to defend it like that, the size and terrain is enormous for Kamra and PAC.

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## iPhone

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Another amazing thing is---there are no machine guns nests pointing outside---there should have been a three man crew machine gun nests at multiple points---. PAF base security picture has as many hole as a tea leaf strainer----or a pakora strainer to make BAOONDI----.



That right there and the rest you suggested. Te thing is its not even that brainstorming ideas, that's pretty standard stuf, just with two or three snipers they could have chewed the terrorists to pieces. You don't even require any additional funds for that.

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## Developereo

IceCold said:


> What about an automated turret system? It use to be something used in strategy games but its been developed. Something like that should be installed. Anyone who crosses a certain threshold, and bang, the gun takes him out. Normal people once become aware would not want to risk and the only ones who want to risk will be terrorists.



You can't have that near inhabited areas. The govt. should buy out all land in a one mile radius around each base and make it a no-go zone.

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## Arsalan

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The more I read into---the more my worst fears are coming true---. From the article with the pictures of the lone warrior---it is very evident that there was hardly any base security at all---. The lone gunman fought them for 10 plus minutes all by himself---. Ten minutes is an eternity in an attack like this---.
> 
> Napoleon lost one of his major battles because his flanks delayed the move by one minute---. 10 minutes is a life time during an initial strikes---10 minutes is like forever when an assault starts---.
> 
> I don't see any pro-active preparations of confronting the terrorists at this base---. Now I see why the base commander got injured---. He was literally saving his ar-se. He knew he had fkcued up---so he decided to put his life on the line---.
> 
> I mean to say---look at the pictures of an earlier post---look at the security---two soldiers in dungarees---only one in combat fatigues---is this how pathetic and miserable my air force has become---the soldier in dungarees has a G3---no protective gear---no spare magazines---amazing stuff ain't it---and that also---after the strike----.



MK, Boss, that LONE man was wearing a suicide vest! you know what it means.. he was there to die.. he have been brain washed and it was a win win situation for him.. He can fight with his gun for 10 minutes or blew himself up to cause damage, all the same for him!!
For such attackers, fighting in desperation for 10 minutes in no big deal!!
Haven't you heard bout the valiant soldier on battle front, fighting a group of enemies all by them self.. just because life and death was not of any matter to them at that time!!

i hope you understand what i am trying to say!

regards!

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## Irfan Baloch

Developereo said:


> You can't have that near inhabited areas. The govt. should buy out all land in a one mile radius around each base and make it a no-go zone.



he seems to be suggesting that firestorm sentry system. A fully autonomous system is still far from reality that can distinguish between a real threat and the environment. friend from foe. And like you mentioned, with the local population near by its even more dangerous. 

the system should be only early warning and surveillance . the decision to use lethal force should be by the human

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## Icarus

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Pakistani Solider is a hero deserves Nishan-e Haidar ...



1) A Nishan-e-Haider can only be issued when the country is in a declared state of war with another country. In the event of an insurgency, the Nishan-e-Haider and the Jurat series of medals cannot be issued to anyone. 

2) Although what these soldiers did was commendable, we must not forget that the Nishan-e-Haider is the HIGHEST gallantry award in Pakistan, many other people also performed deeds which would make even God proud but they were not awarded the Nishan-e-Haider.

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## SQ8

samantk said:


> Dogs, touching dogs is not considered a very good thing by muslims right?



You really dont have Muslims in India or something? or are they only confined to the lower classes so there is no interaction?? 
Nothing wrong with guard dogs.. ask any Muslim.



MastanKhan said:


> -*no spare magazines*---.



In their own words.. they cant even afford that in the budget anymore.
Its THAT bad..

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## Armstrong

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> My good man---proof is in the pudding as they say---. And most of the time---in pakistan---what you see is what you get---.
> 
> In pakistan---there is no magic ball or a magic lamp or a genie in the bottle---. It is all very obvious---when you need to tie a rope around the barrel of a machine gun to attach it to a brace.
> 
> Principals of security have not changed---this not the security of a vault---or a computer system---. There is a secured area---people on foot want to invade and make a strike on assets placed in that arena---the area management need to create a security barrier so that the perforators cannot enter the premises---.
> 
> Now----what I want you and others to listen with open ears with your brains attentive---the reports are saying that the warrior gave them 10 minute time to pull security together----does this time have any significance at all on you people---.
> 
> I would also like to clear one thing---when it comes to my judgement call---please let me hang by the rope---you people may show yourself to be less capable and have praises for the professionals---but please leave me out of it---. My neck is stretched out too long----so please don't insult me---thank you.
> 
> You need machine gun nest---you need bike patrols---you need dog patrols---plus you need snipers---you need around 100---150 troops working in 4 to 6 hour shifts


*
Mastan Bhai*, first off - I wasn't insulting you or anything of the sort; if it came across as such then I do apologize of course ! 

Good sir, my contention remains the same ! Do you really think that the men who are career soldiers and whose sole training for the better part of their lives involves these very issues, are oblivious to these things and yet you and I have the military acumen to come up with things that are most suited to 'base security' ? Why would they of all people who are most qualified and experienced to understanding the nuances of 'security' are going to forgo things as basic as what you and most of the others are suggesting ! I think it would be wrong of us to draw conclusions that imply that we have a better understanding of what the security needs of the base were and what was done about them ! I don't know why the base wasn't a nest infested by machines guns and manned by dogs, bikes and 150 soldiers but what I do understand is that the Commander of the base and his predecessors were exponentially more qualified, more experienced and in possession of extremely relevant information then I or almost everyone on this forum is or ever could be. And so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt instead of commenting so unreservedly without this being my forte and most of all without having been there !

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## Irfan Baloch

Move all the way to end at 30 mins to the end and listen to his very important question...

then you may go to the start and watch the analysis








Armstrong said:


> * what I do understand is that the Commander of the base and his predecessors were exponentially more qualified, more experienced and in possession of extremely relevant information then I or almost everyone on this forum is or ever could be. And so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt instead of commenting so unreservedly without this being my forte and most of all without having been there !*


*

that's wrong comparison. most of us are civilians and dont have the responsibility to run an air force base. a valid comparison might be their performance vs Mehran base. indeed there is some improvement (as long as minimal dmage to Saab AWACs remains to be true).

giving benefit of doubt? thats fundamentally wrong statement when it comes to defending millions dollar worth of assets 
I wont expect PAF to chart out the exact defence plan for the benefit of its enemies but what we see from pictures and footage is not much to impress.*

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## jha

Vassnti said:


> Thats the thing that doesnt make any sense to me. So many people saying it was a well planned attack and all credit to the bravery of Sepoy Muhammad Asif, it was 10 men against one. A well trained squad armed with RPGs grenades and explosives doesnt take 15 minutes to overrun one man with a rifle extra clip or not, especially when they know that reinforcments are close by and time is critical. Heck if you have
> 
> 
> 
> one post 10 men each with five blocks of c4 strapped to his chest and no one made the obvious connection?




I have been wondering the same...


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## Armstrong

Irfan Baloch said:


> that's wrong comparison. most of us are civilians and dont have the responsibility to run an air force base. a valid comparison might be their performance vs Mehran base. indeed there is some improvement (as long as minimal dmage to Saab AWACs remains to be true).
> 
> giving benefit of doubt? thats fundamentally wrong statement when it comes to defending millions dollar worth of assets
> I wont expect PAF to chart out the exact defence plan for the benefit of its enemies but what we see from pictures and footage is not much to impress.



Indeed most of us are civilians which means that we are neither qualified to judge them nor issue directives advocating 'improvements here' or admonishing 'shortcomings' there ! Yes...we reserve the right to have an opinion, to think, to ponder, to ask and to express ourselves but are we really kidding ourselves here in expressing these opinions in such a definitive way as if the Armed Forces themselves are infested by bufffoons who themselves didn't know 'Base Security 101' that we need to give them a short-course in them over here ? 

To the best of my knowledge, this Base Commander and his predecessors have all maintained, seemingly, more or less the same security arrangements that were present on the day of the attack. Now I can doubt the professional competence of one person...heck two to stretch it for the purpose of stretching it, but a whole cadre of the Airforce Elite couldn't think up these things when we - people who aren't in anyway remotely comparable to them in terms of knowledge or experience, in this context - could ? *Irfan Bhai*, it beggars belief that people like AVM Shahid Lateef (who by his own admission commandeered this base !) and other before and after him who've been responsible for these exact same things with respect to these exact same bases weren't competent enough to think up these same 'strategies' or to see these 'loopholes' that we've been talking about for the past 171 pages ! On the other-hand if there really was a fundamental lapse in the planning of the security controls, SOPs and what not, pertaining to this base, then like PNS Mehran the internal control mechanism of the Armed Forces will sort it out with a reprimand handed out to the Base Commander but right now let us 'give the benefit of the doubt' in assuming that the Commander of this base is a qualified individual who knew about the risks posed to the Base and the available options and so he took the best possible course of action accordingly !

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## BATMAN

Developereo said:


> You can't have that near inhabited areas. The govt. should buy out all land in a one mile radius around each base and make it a no-go zone.



Base commander should have requested it to its superiors.
This is one out of many short comings of the base commander/s
Further more, if you look at GHQ!!!!!!
Even the bigger problem is we failed to convict Zardari on memo gate!
Wakeup.. Zardari is enemy of state along with his team.
Army cannot win this war, as long Rehman Malik and his appointed team in NADRA, Police, FIA & IB is facilitating the master minds.


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## Viper0011.

Thorough Pro said:


> Is this how it is supposed to be, a base commander running out to find out whats happening? What happend to the modern communication. This was only a terrorist attack, what will he do in a real war if the base comes under attack, run to the AAA battery?




Good point. Base commander does NOT need to be out. A general doesn't need to run to the front line if his brigade comes under attack. He is the only DECISION MAKER & STRATEGIC planner in the unit. Him going out means he doesn't trust his men or is a micro-manager. Either one's bad for the unit. Not trying to insult his bravery but again, he is THE decision maker. Him being out, what if he got killed? For a while, there will be some degree of confusion to say the least. Not to mention the moral depression!!!


Next, this was a WELL planned attack. In many places it says 'Coincidentally, there was the other AWACS flying and RETURNING to the base. It was ordered to remain airborne'. Something tells me that these terrorists KNEW about both of the Eireye and their schedule. One of them was in the hanger and was still hit (even minimal but objective was achieved to some degree). 

THEN the second returning aircraft was ALSO a target. An aircraft 'taxying' is the EASIEST target from even an SMG if you are close by or RPG, etc. Seems like these guys were VERY comfortable and accurate in using rocket propelled grenades and RPG types of arms as they did manage to hit the other AWACS from distance.

So I think this was planned to capture ONE Eireye in the hanger and the second one on the ground either stopping or slowly taxying. 

This scenario actually seems more like it but it didn't workout due to schedule delay resulting from the resistance and the escalation to the towers, etc. The point is, there was INSIDE support. There are just too many 'coincidents' to not notice here.

Pakistan needs to build HIGH walls around the hangers. This is your third level of access to the assets. Then, there should be another perimeter with another high walls around it. Like 10 feet with electric barbed wires around it. Once the visibility is stopped, that itself causes loss of target acquisition. Now imagine two tall walls....you'll be reducing future threats by 80% in case someone makes it this far. These walls usually use VERY heavy gates. At the fire first bullet, the security should close down these gates, along with hanger gates. Now tall gates and walls in two tiers will eliminate visibility.
The first tier should include checkpoints and the manned soldiers. Behind the walls, ONLY authorized personnel should go.

This is Do-Able. If you guys have billions of assets, a few million can be allocated to safeguard these planes. There are a few air force basis in Pakistan so building these walls and other security protection shouldn't be that expensive.

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## Thorough Pro

I remember in Zia's times Pa used to practice attacks on Kahuta to identify the weaknesses and keep the security on toes.

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## MastanKhan

arsalanaslam123 said:


> MK, Boss, that LONE man was wearing a suicide vest! you know what it means.. he was there to die.. he have been brain washed and it was a win win situation for him.. He can fight with his gun for 10 minutes or blew himself up to cause damage, all the same for him!!
> For such attackers, fighting in desperation for 10 minutes in no big deal!!
> Haven't you heard bout the valiant soldier on battle front, fighting a group of enemies all by them self.. just because life and death was not of any matter to them at that time!!
> 
> i hope you understand what i am trying to say!
> 
> regards!



The warrior I am talking about is our soldier---who by himself kept the terrorists at bay for awhile---not the other guys.

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## Rafi

Oscar said:


> You really dont have Muslims in India or something? or are they only confined to the lower classes so there is no interaction??
> Nothing wrong with guard dogs.. ask any Muslim.
> 
> 
> 
> In their own words.. they cant even afford that in the budget anymore.
> Its THAT bad..


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## Rafi

SSW boys.


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## MastanKhan

Armstrong said:


> *
> Mastan Bhai*, first off - I wasn't insulting you or anything of the sort; if it came across as such then I do apologize of course !
> 
> Good sir, my contention remains the same ! Do you really think that the men who are career soldiers and whose sole training for the better part of their lives involves these very issues, are oblivious to these things and yet you and I have the military acumen to come up with things that are most suited to 'base security' ? Why would they of all people who are most qualified and experienced to understanding the nuances of 'security' are going to forgo things as basic as what you and most of the others are suggesting ! I think it would be wrong of us to draw conclusions that imply that we have a better understanding of what the security needs of the base were and what was done about them ! I don't know why the base wasn't a nest infested by machines guns and manned by dogs, bikes and 150 soldiers but what I do understand is that the Commander of the base and his predecessors were exponentially more qualified, more experienced and in possession of extremely relevant information then I or almost everyone on this forum is or ever could be. And so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt instead of commenting so unreservedly without this being my forte and most of all without having been there !



Hi,

I only talk for myself---and not for we---. There is no reason to infest the base with anything---except to place a few in strategic locations---in case there was a strike by a larger force---. You only take down a larger force on foot by rapid machine gun fire---and off course snipers.

You have made a choice to say that they know their job---that is your prerogative---don't drag me in that---and I am saying that they do not have the mindset---pakistan is not a security conscious nation---regardless of their being professionals----the outcome is pathetic---the one in karachi was horrendous----.

I say that it is a failure because of the reaction time and who was involved---the base commander---his presence in itself means total failure---. I don't doubt his bravery---I doubt the ability of his brains---.

What would have happened if he was killed in the initial strike---.

Proof is in the pudding---you people are all blind---you can't even see your hand in front of your eyes on a bright sunny day---it registers as an object but you don't know what to do with it---.

And the example I am going to talk about----the death of Benazir Bhutto---. Benazir died in the second round of the strike on her---and you people see what kind of chaos the nation is going thru right now after her demise---because there was no one capable and able to lead from the front.

Hi,

Awarding of Nishan A Haider is not GOD"S scipture that it cannot be changed---. 

If Rashid Minhas can get it for committing the biggest blunder of allowing the instructor to get into the aircraft after he had already gotten into taxi position----this warrior deserves it a thousand times more.

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## MastanKhan

orangzaib said:


> Good point. Base commander does NOT need to be out. A general doesn't need to run to the front line if his brigade comes under attack. He is the only DECISION MAKER & STRATEGIC planner in the unit. Him going out means he doesn't trust his men or is a macro-manager. Either one's bad for the unit. Not trying to insult his bravery but again, he is THE decision maker. Him being out, what if he got killed? For a while, there will be some degree of confusion to say the least. Not to mention the moral depression!!!
> 
> 
> Next, this was a WELL planned attack. In many places it says 'Coincidentally, there was the other AWACS flying and RETURNING to the base. It was ordered to remain airborne'. Something tells me that these terrorists KNEW about both of the Eireye and their schedule. One of them was in the hanger and was still hit (even minimal but objective was achieved to some degree).
> 
> THEN the second returning aircraft was ALSO a target. An aircraft 'taxying' is the EASIEST target from even an SMG if you are close by or RPG, etc. Seems like these guys were VERY comfortable and accurate in using rocket propelled grenades and RPG types of arms as they did manage to hit the other AWACS from distance.
> 
> So I think this was planned to capture ONE Eireye in the hanger and the second one on the ground either stopping or slowly taxying.
> 
> This scenario actually seems more like it but may have resulted in schedule delay due to the resistance and the escalation to the towers, etc. The point is, there was INSIDE support. There are just too many 'coincidents' to not notice here.
> 
> Pakistan needs to build HIGH walls around the hangers. This is your third level of access to the assets. Then, there should be another perimeter with another high walls around it. Like 10 feet with electric barbed wires around it. Once the visibility is stopped, that itself causes loss of target acquisition. Now imagine two tall walls....you'll be reducing future threats by 80% in case someone makes it this far. These walls usually use VERY heavy gates. At the fire first bullet, the security should close down these gates, along with hanger gates. Now tall gates and walls in two tiers will eliminate visibility.
> The first tier should include checkpoints and the manned soldiers. Behind the walls, ONLY authorized personnel should go.
> 
> This is Do-Able. If you guys have billions of assets, a few million can be allocated to safeguard these planes. There are a few air force basis in Pakistan so building these walls and other security protection shouldn't be that expensive.



Hi,

Remember the F117 that was shot down by the serbians----remember what they did---they had lookers outside of the base in italy from where it flew---hewould observe the time of take off---the others would calculate the time it took to reach the target---they plotted a route---and one day---they saw this anamoly on the radar and launched their missiles and thus took it down---so in similiar manner an observer can sit outside the base and calculate the take off and return time of the aircraft.

They need a wall and then large empty space---basically a kill zone----all flat---no brush---no trees---.





Rafi said:


> Rafi,
> 
> Thank you very much for the post----.

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## Viper0011.

MastanKhan said:


> Remember the F117 that was shot down by the serbians----remember what they did---they had lookers outside of the base in italy from where it flew---hewould observe the time of take off---the others would calculate the time it took to reach the target---they plotted a route---and one day---they saw this anamoly on the radar and launched their missiles and thus took it down



Are you positive that the reason behind 117 shot down was what's given above?




MastanKhan said:


> They need a wall and then large empty space---basically a kill zone--all flat---no brush---no trees---.


So you need three layers of security. One, just men and may be an APC at the checkpoint, different layers. Second some SSW folks on patrol in gear. It can be just two people but well trained, these guys can hold on their own for a few minutes till the backup comes.
Then, you have an outer perimeter walls with heavy iron gates, steep, concrete, tall like 10 feet with barbed wire on top. Upon the slightest hint of gun fire, people manning this will close the doors. Now, this is on the outer end, when planes go towards the runway. This is where planes on schedule to fly may be parked instead of being parked in the open. Between this wall and the one around the hangers, it's JUST tarmac. No trees, no nothing.
Then, another wall, just around hangers, again, taller than the first one with barbed electric wires. Inside the gate, you'll have hangers and each hanger needs a strong gate and walls too. This will secure plenty of area and assets. You can't just fire a couple of rpg's on these kinds of walls and penetrate. Plus the time wasted in breaking these rings, there is plenty of time for the SSW people to show up


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## farhan_9909

Thorough Pro said:


> I remember in Zia's times Pa used to practice attacks on Kahuta to identify the weaknesses and keep the security on toes.



Good tactics

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## IceCold

Developereo said:


> You can't have that near inhabited areas. The govt. should buy out all land in a one mile radius around each base and make it a no-go zone.



I would say to hell with the inhabited area. People need to get some sense into their thick skulls. They are the reason such attacks take place in the 1st place. My point was similar make the area a no go zone, install the automated turret system and if someone crosses it either by sheer ignorance or the purpose of terrorism will be taken out.

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## iPhone

Basically our mentality has to change when it comes to security. From our homes to offices and other work places and police and law enforcement agencies and all the way to the military we regard security as a joke.

It's our Pakistani mentality that we think investing in pre cautionary methods is a waste of money. For those Pakistanis here living abroad and especially in the western world how many of us can honestly say that we have a portable fire extinguisher at home? If we do then most likely it's empty or defected. How many of us can say they check their batteries of their smoke alarms? How many of us keep a first aid kit at home? 

And forget about the safety aspects in homes in Pakistan. Problem is our mentality. From regular civilain folks to all the way into military. And of course, after all military is comprised of same people. We spend so much to build or buy our homes and do very little to protect them. Same way in the military, it buys billions of dollars of defence assets and refuses to spend a few millions to safeguard them.

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## Ticker

How can we confirm that the attackers have achieved success. How is success measured in this case. Was it completely successful, or they managed to achieve partial success. 

One can only comment on this aspect if we exactly know what was their mission, what did they want to accomplish. Chaos, destruction of assets and killing of people, which assets did they want to destroy. 

If they manage to damage a particular asset which was presumed to be their main target, the success they achieved has been partial. 

The response has to be multi-tiered. We can not plan with surety that a perimeter would not or could not be breached. Therefore various response teams are earmarked and come into play at a certain time and space, depending on their distance from the incident site and the type of response needed. 

The system needs to function, irrespective of the commander becoming a casualty, because of his own fault or a long range weapon hitting the place in the rear where he is located. The system replaces the commander, ensures the type of response needed, when to send in additional forces in case the initial response fails or has been partially successful etc etc. 

We can only comment on what we may know. In the absence of complete information, appropriate conclusions cannot be reached. 

It is never easy to analyse the environment for want of more information and clarity of such information.

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## Leviza

thriller said:


> I totally agree with you. The Pakistani forces will never learn.



Shame on you, these are the people who are protecting us and our homeland, people like you are basically just internet warriors and i think you just created this ID to say things like that...

If you think this way then what you have to say about the attacks on the todays attack in Afghanistan ? 
Where were you when CIA , supported the TTP in Swat by leaving the afghan side posts so they can run away?

If you think you can have better policy of eliminating these sort of attacks, please go and fight on real not on internet from the comfort of you home..



IceCold said:


> I would say to hell with the inhabited area. People need to get some sense into their thick skulls. They are the reason such attacks take place in the 1st place. My point was similar make the area a no go zone, install the automated turret system and if someone crosses it either by sheer ignorance or the purpose of terrorism will be taken out.



I agree with you, fence the Afghan border with electric fence, anyone tries to cross it illegally will go straight into hell.

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## dilpakistani

which aircraft was hit ?


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## Irfan Baloch

dilpakistani said:


> which aircraft was hit ?


Speculation and unconfirmed report about damage to Saab aircraft. its not confirmed and PAF is choosing to keep us guessing including everyone who wants to know


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## Bratva

Irfan Baloch said:


> Speculation and unconfirmed report about damage to Saab aircraft. its not confirmed and PAF is choosing to keep us guessing including everyone who wants to know



Irfan Bhai, Dawn channel ran a news ticker on 19 august that according to official sources one SAAB / AWACS were 60% destroyed leaving it beyond repair! The assessment team has recommended that the plane might be sent to European country for further assessment


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## VCheng

iPhone said:


> Basically our mentality has to change when it comes to security. From our homes to offices and other work places and police and law enforcement agencies and all the way to the military we regard security as a joke.
> 
> It's our Pakistani mentality that we think investing in pre cautionary methods is a waste of money. For those Pakistanis here living abroad and especially in the western world how many of us can honestly say that we have a portable fire extinguisher at home? If we do then most likely it's empty or defected. How many of us can say they check their batteries of their smoke alarms? How many of us keep a first aid kit at home?
> 
> And forget about the safety aspects in homes in Pakistan. Problem is our mentality. From regular civilain folks to all the way into military. And of course, after all military is comprised of same people. We spend so much to build or buy our homes and do very little to protect them. Same way in the military, it buys billions of dollars of defence assets and refuses to spend a few millions to safeguard them.



The explanation is simple: _Safety/Security costs money_. How much does one want to spend on it, specially given scarcity of resources?


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## iPhone

VCheng said:


> The explanation is simple: _Safety/Security costs money_. How much does one want to spend on it, specially given scarcity of resources?



You missed my point entirely. Yes, I realize the scarcity of resources but my argument was that even IF we had the the funds or were able to arrange funds we'd still won't invest in safety and security because we don't take it very seriously.


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## VCheng

iPhone said:


> You missed my point entirely. Yes, I realize the scarcity of resources but my argument was that even IF we had the the funds or were able to arrange funds we'd still won't invest in safety and security because we don't take it very seriously.



Oh I got your point alright. Given the resources and the adverse law and order situation prevailing these days, actually PAF (and other Arms) are not doing too shabbily on securing their facilities.


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## Bhai Zakir

self delete


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## mjnaushad

Bhai Zakir said:


> Thread started on 2008, over 98,000 views............... .......and still  nothing even on papers



Too late to delete

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## Windjammer

Bhai Zakir said:


> Thread started on 2008, over 98,000 views............... .......and still  nothing even on papers




Welcome to our planet......the thread is barely a week old, where did you pull 2008 from..


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## Lazarus1177

I was reading the posts on the first page of this thread.Couldn't help but laugh at the posts about the base attacked and a lot of personnel killed.That's what happens when your source is the Pakistani news agencies and not actual Airforce sources!Thank God that no real damage occured.


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## VCheng

Lazarus1177 said:


> I was reading the posts on the first page of this thread.Couldn't help but laugh at the posts about the base attacked and a lot of personnel killed.That's what happens when your source is the Pakistani news agencies and not actual Airforce sources!*Thank God that no real damage occured*.



No "real" damage?

What price the reputation of the Armed Forces?

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## Jango

Hehe, it will get real soon enough!


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## Lazarus1177

VCheng said:


> No "real" damage?
> 
> What price the reputation of the Amred Forces?


What damage are you talking about?The TTP was only able to trigger a fire-fight and nothing more.THEY NEVER ENTERED THE BASE.Such an attack could have happened anywhere else in the world.But here,our news media has the habit of making up stuff and/or manipulating facts.People in the Western hemisphere now actually believe that the airbase has been destroyed by the Taliban along with all the aircraft!If it had happened in the US or maybe even India,the media would have brought up actual facts and not tried to sensationalize the story.

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## Jango

Lazarus1177 said:


> THEY NEVER ENTERED THE BASE...



That's a pretty bold, and frankly stupid statement.


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## HAIDER

A question to people who spent their life in village and familiar with life in village. Can a group of people with load of weapon can pass through un noticed in the middle of night ?

Do you think someone inside the village provide them secured passage ?

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## Jango

HAIDER said:


> A question to people who spent their life in village and familiar with life in village. Can a group of people with load of weapon can pass through un noticed in the middle of night ?



Had it been my village, and in front of my family house there, probably yes. My house is on the outer periphery of the whole cluster of houses. In between the narrow streets, tough to say.

But there are huge fields in that area, how tough is it to go un-noticed in a field?


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## kum.

TTP is just sending their B grade, poorly trained jehadists to attack Pakistani millitary assests for reharsing for finals.


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## HAIDER

kum. said:


> TTP is just sending their B grade, poorly trained jehadists to attack Pakistani millitary assests for reharsing for finals.


....stop trolling ....next time send Indian A1 TTP brigade .

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## eik_pagall

HAIDER said:


> ....stop trolling ....next time send Indian A1 TTP brigade .


 Kum... knows much about TTP and their standards )



kum. said:


> TTP is just sending their B grade, poorly trained jehadists to attack Pakistani millitary assests for reharsing for finals.


 You been TTP instructor ?

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## kum.

eik_pagall said:


> Kum... knows much about TTP and their standards )
> 
> You been TTP instructor ?


May be not.
But how Pak forces have tackel these terrorists this time, was really good.

Last time they have completely destroyed the plane.
& Batteled for long.

But this time things were pretty much diffrent.

So may be commanders of TTP are just playing & Kidding wid their old friends by sending their B grade jehadists.


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## MastanKhan

orangzaib said:


> Are you positive that the reason behind 117 shot down was what's given above?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Here is a link----- Air Defense: How to Take Down an F-117
> 
> 
> 
> HAIDER said:
> 
> 
> 
> A question to people who spent their life in village and familiar with life in village. Can a group of people with load of weapon can pass through un noticed in the middle of night ?
> 
> Do you think someone inside the village provide them secured passage ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> No they can't----there are always dogs around---.
> 
> Remember the good old days of Muslim Caliphs as portrayed in history----the vilage would have been executed or at least the headman hung and properties conifscated---.
> 
> Just give the pakistanis a taste of the CALIPH medicine for starters.
> 
> 
> 
> VCheng said:
> 
> 
> 
> No "real" damage?
> 
> What price the reputation of the Armed Forces?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> To understand that---you need to have a conscience.
Click to expand...

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## JonAsad

^^The caliph would hv not waited for the kharjis to settle in the first place-
The caliph 101 would be the devastation annhilation of the area kharjis come from-
which in this case is waziristan-

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## blain2

VCheng said:


> No "real" damage?
> 
> What price the reputation of the Armed Forces?



You have to keep in mind that we are well past that stage where "reputation" of the Armed Forces is at stake. This issue of reputation would only come to the mind of someone who does not understand where things stand today, which is that we are engaged in a fairly long running insurgency and there are bound to be hits and attacks against our military infrastructure. Since the armed forces are only working under the framework of reacting (as in standing guard against attacks, rather than pre-empting the attacks which requires clearance and approval at the national level allowing the the Army to go after and disrupt them in not only FATA but wherever else they may be), its illogical to talk about the reputation of the armed forces being tarnished by terrorist attacks. If anything, the armed forces are taking hits and bearing the brunt and helping avoid these attacks against the civilians. Our public needs to also understand this. By taking on the militants, the military is drawing away the attacks from civilian population centers (as in bazaars of Lahore etc.)

The suggestions for better perimeter security and protection of assets are tactical measures. What is really needed is the proactive policy to take on these elements on their own turf by disrupting not only their militant infrastructure, but also sucking out support at the ideological level. This is the need of the hour.

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## blain2

HAIDER said:


> A question to people who spent their life in village and familiar with life in village. Can a group of people with load of weapon can pass through un noticed in the middle of night ?
> 
> Do you think someone inside the village provide them secured passage ?



Very much possible on the part about a group of men (I am sure they moved in twos and threes and very quietly). The load of weapons is essentially personal. One SMG, magazine and grenades, one or two with RPGs and rounds. Its not like they were carrying a truck load of ammunition for an entire company. Like any SF team, they carried enough to load at an individual level. I am sure they moved very quietly and probably did not have any helpers in the local village (who would want to stir trouble right next to houses of their own kith and kin?).


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

This thread is the most serious discussion of any kind that can happen on a discussion forum---. Here was the oppurtunity for everyone to come forward---specially those entitlements---.

I don't see any leading and thought provoking and critical discussions from any entitled personal except for some 'SOB STORIES'--- you people know what my recommendations are---.

This attack must be an eye opener for the defence forces---next one would be on a bigger scale. The millitary and the intelligence gathering services need to begin to start the hunt as never before.



JonAsad said:


> ^^The caliph would hv not waited for the kharjis to settle in the first place-
> The caliph 101 would be the devastation annhilation of the area kharjis come from-
> which in this case is waziristan-



Hi,

Thank you very much indeed---that is always been the center point of all my discussions over the years---strike hard---strike deep---take out the source head at the earliest possible and its co sponsors---. Time is of essence in acting against any insurgency and terrorist group.

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## Jango

MastanKhan said:


> This attack must be an eye opener for the defence forces---next one would be on a bigger scale. The millitary and the intelligence gathering services need to begin to start the hunt as never before.



The thing is, that PA is in a reactive role, and we react to an attack, and don't go around at it proactively.

There are multiple reasons for that, resources, change in plan, etc etc. The principle of defend as far forward as possible and feasible is not being applied here to it's most. To a certain extent though, yes it is.

For these attacks, you have to take it out from the root, but as the root is in Afghanistan, you can't. Next best thing is to cut the trunk from within Pakistan, but the sort of system that goes on here, it is not possible either. e.g, a black Honda gets stolen, intel reports that a black Honda is stolen, yada yada yada. But what then? Absolutely nothing. The plate gets changed, and they proceed. Better yet, you go to outskirts of Toba tek singh, Gujranwala, and alot of other places, the car gets dismantled within 4 hours (personal experience), and the parts get sold individually, and you have finance. Had there been a proper database system, the car wouldn't have gotten away 40 km.

Next thing is that plain old 'nakas' with a half asleep policeman, and 5 others having gup shup is not going to do the job. At best, the terrorists will start attacking the naka, and with it, the other cars in near proximity.

So, that is 2 options that cannot be performed effectively, whats the third option? Wait and let them come at you, and that is exactly what is happening. Albeit, not very successfully.

It's the whole system, police, intel, military, database, everything. The police needs to get the main main role, it's the job of the police to intercept those people in the streets. Then it is the responsibility of the military to repel them and not let them get into the base.


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## Hyperion

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> This thread is the most serious discussion of any kind that can happen on a discussion forum---. *Here was the oppurtunity for everyone to come forward*---specially those entitlements---.
> 
> *I don't see any leading and thought provoking and critical discussions* from any entitled personal except for some 'SOB STORIES'--- you people know what my recommendations are---.
> 
> *This attack must be an eye opener for the defence forces---next one would be on a bigger scale.* The millitary and the intelligence gathering services *need to begin to start the hunt as never before..*


 Agreed.

There are many voices of dissent here on the forum. However, they are silenced pretty quickly. Don't be so quick to judge all of us. Sometimes we have to voice our concerns, buy coating it with 30 different flavors of 'national pride,' with the one at the core being the voice of reason. 



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> To understand that---you need to have a conscience,* LOVE OF LAND* *& cerebral cortex!*


Ok. That is funny! As I said, mix it with pride and it works, no one gets an infraction!

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## HAIDER

I would give extra point to Moderator who started zero tolerance policy on trolling etc. And let these serious discussion made successful..

I would say its time Govt or Pak armed forces need to consider either population should move away from vital installations or installation should be moved with better future planning. 
Not like Navel base karachi renting its navel base empty lots for marriages and private parties. Recently Talat Hussain made another program on INSECURE MEHRAN BASE. Where single sepoy covering over half mile radius without any wireless. And begging Talat Hussain " please leave ".......this security situation of Navel base.....Still he went next to base wall and show no sign of security.

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## Jango

HAIDER said:


> I would give extra point to Moderator who started zero tolerance policy on trolling etc. And let these serious discussion made successful..
> 
> I would say its time Govt or Pak armed forces need to consider either population should move away from vital installations or installation should be moved with better future planning.
> Not like Navel base karachi renting its navel base empty lots for marriages and private parties. Recently Talat Hussain made another program on INSECURE MEHRAN BASE. Where single sepoy covering over half mile radius without any wireless. And begging Talat Hussain " please leave ".......this security situation of Navel base.....Still he went next to base wall and show no sign of security.



Can you post the video? specifically the part.?

Wait, i have got a link, can you tell which part to watch? I dont have enough time right now to watch all parts!

News Night with Talat (Kamra Air Base Attack &#8211; Exclusive Analysis)


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## Developereo

IceCold said:


> I would say to hell with the inhabited area. People need to get some sense into their thick skulls. They are the reason such attacks take place in the 1st place. My point was similar make the area a no go zone, install the automated turret system and if someone crosses it either by sheer ignorance or the purpose of terrorism will be taken out.



You can't have automatic lethal systems across the street from people's houses, schools and shops.

You need an outer perimeter, a no-man's land, and an inner boundary. It's not rocket science; these setups exist all over the world. When you work at sensitive defence projects in the US, you don't drive up and park next to your office. You park several miles away anda bus takes workers to the office complex. No electronics are allowed -- no radios, no phones, no ipads, NOTHING. ZIP.


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

Police and rangers were doing their jobs dilligently----you pakistanis being your own worst enemies---screwed them up bad----.

Remember the ranger who shot the thief in the----the thief kept advancing towards the ranger even grabbed his rifle----and all you guys demonized the ranger---actually all you karachiites demonized that ranger for shooting that man---.

And what you did---you people deleteed the sound and kept a selective video and then started up rallies and you got death penalty for that ranger---turned to life in jail---.

Then you had this chechen family advancing towards the check post in quetta---woman in hijab----swollen belly---would not stop----the police fired and took the family out---and you people castigated the police---even though you people knew how many times the suicide bombers had killed the police at check points by not stopping when ordered---.

You people castigated your own police force---. Now that they don't give a rat's behind and you people cry for their inactions.

Let me ask my brethren----don't you people think that you are not deserving of living in a civilized and law abiding society as for now---that your action and activites have taken you away from any civilized and progressive community---.

Law abiding pakistanis will have to take up and act on their own---smaller strike forces---small groups----will take out thieves---rapists---gangsters---silently and quietly---secrecy will be the most important thing---.

Pakistan needs vigilante style justice---quick strikes and you are gone---you need to bring sanity back into your society and community---and if the police gets into your way---guess what you have to do---if you have a corrupt judge in your way---the solution is simple---no threats---just do the job---.

Send the message out silently---loud and clear---pakistanis need to take their nation back--even if it needs to take the law into your own hand---. Now the question that needs to be asked is---do you have the discipline---.

As for kamra air base---paf needs to display all its assets in a fly by---people need to see if the air force is honest in telling them what has really really happened.

But---the bottomline---the air base commander in karachi--he needs the hangman's noose---no ifs and buts. Untill and unless you people don't start up with the cleansing process---you people won't have a nation left---pretty soon.

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## HRK

MastanKhan said:


> Remember the ranger who shot the thief in the----the thief kept advancing towards the ranger even grabbed his rifle----and all you guys demonized the ranger---actually all you karachiites demonized that ranger for shooting that man---.
> 
> And what you did---you people deleteed the sound and kept a selective video and then started up rallies and you got death penalty for that ranger---turned to life in jail---.



Dear Mr. MastanKhan, without going to the detail of that event you coated I would simple ask one Question &#8220;Could we give the right to be a judge to an armed man&#8221;

Dear All, I have observed that we as a nation are either talks about events like such or personalities from both side of this war, but we are not trying to understand the challenges of this war (please allow me to blunt this war itself is not a challenge)

As a nation I am unable to find the combine effort at Intellectual and religious and social levels as well.
All we do is military operations or traditional war be its USA/NATO or Pakistan it is not the solution, a simple logic traditional warfare tactics could not be the answer of a guerilla warfare tactics it is a proven history.

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## IceCold

Developereo said:


> You can't have automatic lethal systems across the street from people's houses, schools and shops.
> 
> You need an outer perimeter, a no-man's land, and an inner boundary. It's not rocket science; these setups exist all over the world. When you work at sensitive defence projects in the US, you don't drive up and park next to your office. You park several miles away anda bus takes workers to the office complex. No electronics are allowed -- no radios, no phones, no ipads, NOTHING. ZIP.



Yes these setups does exist worldwide but you also have to understand the mentality here. I quote Musharraf as saying once to a foreign journalist that in England if a police barricades an area with a yellow ribbon, people would not dare even thinking about crossing it, on the other hand in Pakistan even if you built a concrete wall, people will find a way to make a hole in it and cross over. 

What you are suggesting is for the educated lot, not for the bunch of ignorant fools. How many valued lives and prized assets are we willing to put on stake before we realize that this nation does not deserve a democracy, they deserve a danda.(Sorry) 

I will say it again, we can make an area a no go, and you can bet, people will still use it, unless they know, that there won't be a warning coming this time and the only thing coming will be a bullet straight to the head.

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## MastanKhan

HAMMAD REHMAN KHAN said:


> Dear Mr. MastanKhan, without going to the detail of that event you coated I would simple ask one Question &#8220;Could we give the right to be a judge to an armed man&#8221;
> 
> Dear All, I have observed that we as a nation are either talks about events like such or personalities from both side of this war, but we are not trying to understand the challenges of this war (please allow me to blunt this war itself is not a challenge)
> 
> As a nation I am unable to find the combine effort at Intellectual and religious and social levels as well.
> All we do is military operations or traditional war be its USA/NATO or Pakistan it is not the solution, a simple logic traditional warfare tactics could not be the answer of a guerilla warfare tactics it is a proven history.



Sir,

Some one has to provide justice to the weak and suffering in pakistan---that is the law of nature---that is the Law of ALLAH---that is the law of the universe---.

You really want to know how stupid you pakistanis are---how illeterate and ignorant you are about your religion---the veryu cardinal principal thatis the fundamental basis of islam---the fundamental basis of any thriving civilized society is justice---.

Your religion forces upon you to provide justice to those who do not have the strength to get it---to stand up against those who donot provide justice---that is the very foundation of your religion---not the kalimah---or the quraaan--the rozah or zakaat or haj---those are for your soul---and only then when you have been just---otherwise they are worthless and of no substance.

If you cannot provide justice---you are a worthless nation---there is no place for you in front of your LORD GOD----and here you are----your top most judges are telling people---khuda ka khauf karo---marna nahin hai jo aisay kaam kar rahay ho---meaning---don't you fear god---you will die why to do these things---god will punish you---.

And this statement is contrary to the canons of the religion islam---. In islam the person must fear the law---the person must fear the law of the land---the person must fear the justice imposed upon him by the courts of the land---when the almighty made you the leader of men amongst you---he made you the judge of the people as well and forced upon you to pass just judgement and examplary punishments upon those wwho commit crimes against those who are weak and those who are suffering and those who have no recourse to go any where else but just to beg for justice.

And if you cannot provide justice---then there is no place for you as a nation and for your people---. 

If you people look at it---look at yourself---regardless of what happened and who did what---since the past twenty five years----you a re surely and certainly headed that way---.

Your judge of supreme court cannot give you justice and impose a sentence---he blurts out---khuda ka khauf karo----instead---he should have stated----fear me in this world----fear the imposition of my law---.

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## Safriz

So what's the verdict now?

are the AWACS safe or destroyed?


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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> So what's the verdict now?
> 
> are the AWACS safe or destroyed?


Awacs maybe safe. National pride on the other hand, is a whole different story!

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## Capt.Popeye

Safriz said:


> So what's the verdict now?
> 
> are the AWACS safe or destroyed?



The Jury is still out. No evidence has been offered yet, one way or another.


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## notorious_eagle

Well in my opinion this attack proves beyond a doubt that these TTP scums are being backed by a very powerful and resourceful patron. If the purpose was to cause damage to the resources of Pakistan, the terrorists would have found it much easier to attack assets of PIA, Pakistan Railways or other important strategic civilian assets. They chose to forgo this and attacked the most important asset in the inventory of PAF. This asset which will be PAF's main trump card in denying air superiority against a regional air force. If the terrorists ignored everything else and attacked this with such sophistication, it is quite clear there are some sinister designs which mean to reduce the conventional capability of Pakistan instead of its COIN capabilities.

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## Windjammer

Safriz said:


> So what's the verdict now?
> 
> are the AWACS safe or destroyed?



Rest assured, no major damage done, we might see proof of that on 6th September. ??

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## MilSpec

notorious_eagle said:


> Well in my opinion this attack proves beyond a doubt that these TTP scums are being backed by a very powerful and resourceful patron. If the purpose was to cause damage to the resources of Pakistan, the terrorists would have found it much easier to attack assets of PIA, Pakistan Railways or other important strategic civilian assets. They chose to forgo this and attacked the most important asset in the inventory of PAF. This asset which will be PAF's main trump card in denying air superiority against a regional air force. If the terrorists ignored everything else and attacked this with such sophistication, it is quite clear there are some sinister designs which mean to reduce the conventional capability of Pakistan instead of its COIN capabilities.




You are basically saying India is TTP's patron.... although I can see how attack on awacs can be seen as something o indian interest, the truth is , India using taliban as an assset seems farfetched....lets not forgetyour own governmet claims some of the most influential leaders of ttp are from LET/JUD and HuM


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## JonAsad

Hyperion said:


> Awacs maybe safe. National pride on the other hand, is a whole different story!



National Pride was lost in 71- or we keep on loosing the remianing- in raymond- osama- GHQ- mehran- minhas-
Maybe our national pride is so much fragile that some 10 talibunies in a failed attempt attacking a base dents it-
i didnt see that in 9/11- 7/11- 26/11- infact those made them stronger- united-
in our case Pride is directly propotional to talibunies attacking our military bases-

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## Irfan Baloch

HAMMAD REHMAN KHAN said:


> Dear All, I have observed that we as a nation are either talks about events like such or personalities from both side of this war, but we are not trying to understand the challenges of this war (please allow me to blunt this war itself is not a challenge)
> 
> As a nation I am unable to find the combine effort at Intellectual and religious and social levels as well.
> All we do is military operations or traditional war be its USA/NATO or Pakistan it is not the solution, a simple logic traditional warfare tactics could not be the answer of a guerilla warfare tactics it is a proven history.




Interesting post

please elaborate, maybe create a new thread on that if the subject matter of your argument is general and beyond this Kamra incident.

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## Irfan Baloch

sandy_3126 said:


> lets not forgetyour own governmet claims some of the most influential leaders of ttp are from LET/JUD and HuM



and Sipah Sahabah, Laskher Jhagvi, Lal masjid Ghazi force and so forth. they all cooperate with each other where it suits them but they still continue to have their individual identities. its like the PKK fighting the Turks, Iran, Syria and the Kurds in iraq.. all are Kurds but Americans choose to be friends or foe depending on their policy with the target country. 

dont be alarmed at the mention of India as a benefactor and possible suspect. thats a standard line of any investigation to find the motive and potential benefit and look around the suspects. in all such high profile attacks it might be found out in the end that such targeting of Indian specific attacks was all coincidental and for India it was just a happy outcome. 

the terrorists are mostly escaping or killing themselves before capture so there is not much to move on and even if we do, I doubt their handers will make their nationality and identity known to these highly trained pawns. 
if the naxalites somehow manage to attack an Indian Naval facility or something of purely strategic importance then rest assured all Indian channels and think tanks will point the fingers at ISI... its a logical reaction

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## MilSpec

Irfan Baloch said:


> and Sipah Sahabah, Laskher Jhagvi, Lal masjid Ghazi force and so forth. they all cooperate with each otehr where it suits them but they still continue to have their individual identities. its like the PKK fighting the Turks, Iran, Syria and the Kurds in iraq.. all are Kurds but Americans choose to be friends or foe depending on their policy with the target country.
> 
> dont be alarmed at the mention of India as a benefactor and possible suspect. thats a standard line of any investigation to find the motive and potential benefit and look around the suspects. in all such high profile attacks it might be found out in the end that such targeting of Indian specific attacks was all coincidental and for India it was just a happy outcome.
> 
> the terrorists are mostly escaping or killing themselves before capture so there is not much to move on and even if we do, I doubt their handers will make their nationality and identity known to these highly trained pawns.
> *if the naxalites somehow manage to attack an Indian Naval facility or something of purely strategic importance then rest assured all Indian channels and think tanks will point the fingers at ISI... its a logical reaction*



Absolutely true


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## Hyperion

JonAsad said:


> National Pride was lost in 71- or we keep on loosing the remianing- in raymond- osama- GHQ- mehran- minhas-
> Maybe our national pride is so much fragile that some 10 talibunies in a failed attempt attacking a base dents it-
> i didnt see that in 9/11- 7/11- 26/11- infact those made them stronger- united-
> in our case Pride is directly propotional to talibunies attacking our military bases-


Wait.... lemme read this once again......

Am I correct in assuming: You're stating that, every other Taliban attack on our national assets, "SOMEHOW", gives a boost to our CUMULATIVE national pride?

I'm sure, I maybe misreading your post, if not, and your's is an attitude shared by public at large, then get ready for a ginormous injection of pride, coming your way. Maybe that may do the trick, and burst the bubble?


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## Safriz

Hyperion said:


> Wait.... lemme read this once again......
> 
> Am I correct in assuming: You're stating that, every other Taliban attack on our national assets, "SOMEHOW", gives a boost to our CUMULATIVE national pride?
> 
> I'm sure, I maybe misreading your post, if not, and your's is an attitude shared by public at large, then get ready for a ginormous injection of pride, coming your way. Maybe that may do the trick, and burst the bubble?



National pride is a personal thing..
Some will remain perpetually ashamed of being Pakistani...or ex-Pakistani..

Others will feel proud of their country Pakistan and support their nation in times of need instead of mud slinging...

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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> National pride is a personal thing..
> Some will remain perpetually ashamed of being Pakistani...or ex-Pakistani..
> 
> Others will feel proud of their country Pakistan and support their nation in times of need instead of mud slinging...



And yet again, assumptions, presumptions and whole lotta more. I am a proud Pakistani, always was, always will be. I was privelaged before, I'm privileged now. For myself, nothing has changed. Don't be so quick to jump the gun, and by the way you are not the moral compass of this beautiful nation.


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## JonAsad

Hyperion said:


> Wait.... lemme read this once again......
> 
> Am I correct in assuming: You're stating that, every other Taliban attack on our national assets, "SOMEHOW", gives a boost to our CUMULATIVE national pride?
> 
> I'm sure, I maybe misreading your post, if not, and your's is an attitude shared by public at large, then get ready for a ginormous injection of pride, coming your way. Maybe that may do the trick, and burst the bubble?



all i am saying is such incidents specialy when we are in a state of war- doesnt effect national pride- its part of the parcel you carry- atleast not for me it doesnt- infact how our special forces thwarted them from their intended goal is what boosts mine- considering what happened last time in mehran- 

National Pride- to each his own- take it or leave it- -

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## Safriz

Hyperion said:


> And yet again, assumptions, presumptions and whole lotta more. I am a proud Pakistani, always was, always will be. I was privelaged before, I'm privileged now. For myself, nothing has changed. Don't be so quick to jump the gun, and by the way you are not the moral compass of this beautiful nation.



what i am is not related to this thread..
moral compass or magnetic compass...matters not.

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## HRK

Irfan Baloch said:


> Interesting post
> 
> please elaborate, maybe create a new thread on that if the subject matter of your argument is general and beyond this Kamra incident.




Dear Irfan Baloch, a nice suggestion from your side but let me remind you these are the quit sensitive disputed/debatable and huge topics, all three of them and will need a lot of active participation to cover all topics and sub topics and I be a sort of inactive member of this forum think I could not justify with thread, but would appreciate if some senior or active member do the same.

As far as elaboration of my post is concern, I would dived this topic in three separate topics

1- Religious level: Extremism, Sectarianism, Sectarian Violence, Theocracy with in all sects, violation of laws for and by mullahs in the name of religion, positive and negative role of religious schools. 

2- Social and intellectual level: Political violence and extremism, violation of law for and by the political leaders, absence of true intellectual thinking/research, be its right wing or left wing, paid NGOs and their agendas, Corruption, low literacy rate and Injustice as a whole in society. 

3- Military Level: If an army have to fight with in its own country with its own people it is the indication of political and social failure of that country. In Pakistan perspective a war in tribal area is not the only war our arm forces are engage with, they are deployed in Baluchistan in the form of FC, Rangers in Sindh particularly in Karachi, NLA and FC in Northern Areas and now Rangers at some areas of Punjab (to stop the stealing of water from canals what a shame).

A simply question at which part of Pakistan our arm forces are not engage, after that we want them to outperform terrorist of different motives. TTP or Al-Qaida are not the only headache they have to face. They are facing challenges which are potentially beyond their capacity (due to its nature) it is the time when they need a leader a master strategist to come to their rescue. 

I dont know where I read something like a war is too sensitive to be left for Geranial only, and unfortunately our forces are not engage only in ONE WAR 

To conclude I would say one line NOW AS A NATION WE ARE MISSING DIRECTION OF FUTURE so either we need a leader/ master strategist or we the civilians have to perform our part better than ever.


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## Xeric

Funeral prayer of Sepoy Asif Ramzan shaheed (Defence Services Guard, PAF Base Minhas) - YouTube

Funeral Prayer of Sepoy Asif Ramzan Shaheed (DSG) - Savior of P.A.F Base (Minhas) Kamra - YouTube

Sepoy Muhammad Asif Ramzan Buried With Complete Military Honor - (17-08-12) - YouTube

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## laiqs@mi

thnx xeric .....
true hero... 
Asif Ramzan we all salute you and your bravery 
you made us proud


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## Stealth

HAMMAD REHMAN KHAN said:


> Dear All, I have observed that we as a nation are either talks about events like such or personalities from both side of this war, but we are not trying to understand the challenges of this war (please allow me to blunt this war itself is not a challenge)
> 
> As a nation I am unable to find the combine effort at Intellectual and religious and social levels as well.
> All we do is military operations or traditional war be its USA/NATO or Pakistan it is not the solution, a simple logic traditional warfare tactics could not be the answer of a guerilla warfare tactics it is a proven history.



Because People of Pakistan think that this ****** created by ARMY (Pakistan 60 years of ***** policy who made by Establishment and thats what everyone knw very wel)

So why the people of Pakistan feel the heat of reaction ??? The childrens of Pakistan Army/Airforce/naval study in Top Universities/Colleges/Schools and getting top Medical services as compare to the civilian whom even don't know how 1965/1971/Afghan War/1999/ and top failure history from 2001 - 2012 happened and you are telling the people of Pakistan "OOO SADAY NAAL MIL KAR JANG LAROO" 

FOR WHAT ??????????

Guess what from last few days which kind of preception about PAkistan Military in Islamabad/Rawalpindi Schools/Colleges/Uni/Markets/Bazars// which kind of discussion is going on??

yaar leave it simplly PAKISTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT INTERESTED TO SUPPORT PAKISTAN ARMY who even don't know WHAT IS NEXT who even completely failed to defend herself whom Security openly challenged by TERRORIST from Afghanistan.

People of Pakistan want the ANSWERS of MANY MANY Question why the hell that BEGERAT GENERAL Musharaf and CO***party JOIN US ... PAKISTAN ke AWAM sa pooch kar join kya tha ?????

So IF THESE GENERALS NOT EVEN INTERESTED TO ASK AND ATLEAST INFORM THE PEOPLE OF PAKSITAN THAT WHAT IS OUR POLICY AND OUR INTERESTS WHY THE HELL PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN CARE ABOUT THIS ARMY AND THESE GENERALS ??
*
"You Don't Have Answer"*


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## BATMAN

I'm wondering why does the suicide waists failed this time? all of them I believe! Were they defective? 

What could be, possible source of explosives?

IMO,, the attack was lousy? what could be reason for that?


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## Safriz

BATMAN said:


> I'm wondering why does the suicide waists failed this time? all of them I believe! Were they defective?
> 
> What could be, possible source of explosives?
> 
> IMO,, the attack was lousy? what could be reason for that?



or they were killed too soon for them to detonate their vests....


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## BATMAN

Safriz said:


> or they were killed too soon for them to detonate their vests....



Well not soon enough, perpetrators had enough time to explode their waists!
What were they waiting for? Why the never used this option, this time around? was it a co-incidence that all waists were defective? or they were deliberately sent in with defective waists?


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## laiqs@mi

safriz 
that would have been for 3,4 all of them were shot dead before they could have explode themselves??
i've heard that these sucides have one man controlling with remote when they die or may be during the fight when the controller thinks that now he is not useful he press the button.
i've seen this with my eyes. during juma prayer a suicide attacker was arrested near our masjid and the other guy who was controlling him tried but not succeeded and then ran away.


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## HRK

Stealth said:


> Because People of Pakistan think that this ****** created by ARMY (Pakistan 60 years of ***** policy who made by Establishment and thats what everyone knw very wel)
> 
> So why the people of Pakistan feel the heat of reaction ??? The childrens of Pakistan Army/Airforce/naval study in Top Universities/Colleges/Schools and getting top Medical services as compare to the civilian whom even don't know how 1965/1971/Afghan War/1999/ and top failure history from 2001 - 2012 happened and you are telling the people of Pakistan "OOO SADAY NAAL MIL KAR JANG LAROO"
> 
> FOR WHAT ??????????
> 
> Guess what from last few days which kind of preception about PAkistan Military in Islamabad/Rawalpindi Schools/Colleges/Uni/Markets/Bazars// which kind of discussion is going on??
> 
> yaar leave it simplly PAKISTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT INTERESTED TO SUPPORT PAKISTAN ARMY who even don't know WHAT IS NEXT who even completely failed to defend herself whom Security openly challenged by TERRORIST from Afghanistan.
> 
> People of Pakistan want the ANSWERS of MANY MANY Question why the hell that BEGERAT GENERAL Musharaf and CO***party JOIN US ... PAKISTAN ke AWAM sa pooch kar join kya tha ?????
> 
> So IF THESE GENERALS NOT EVEN INTERESTED TO ASK AND ATLEAST INFORM THE PEOPLE OF PAKSITAN THAT WHAT IS OUR POLICY AND OUR INTERESTS WHY THE HELL PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN CARE ABOUT THIS ARMY AND THESE GENERALS ??
> *
> "You Don't Have Answer"*




Dear can you or anybody answer one question &#8220;*Do you believe that Pakistan defense forces are MURTID*?&#8221;

I know it is a harsh question and look out of context in this discussion but it is the real mentality of our new enemy and guess what it is the wall choking at NATIONAL STADIUM KARACHI according to them &#8220;*our arm forces are MURTID and if they are MURTID then you and I are also MURTID for them and if it is HALLAL to kill a personal of arm forces then it is also HALLAL to kill you and me&#8221; *

Dear it that religious challenges about which I am talking, do you think can our arm force could reply it effectively. Now tell me whose duty is to respond. 

Dear there are some popular believes and perceptions and they are true to some extent but dear if you hold responsible Pakistan Army for Kashmir policy then what is your opinion about Quaid-e-Azam role.

If you think Afghan policy was first given by PA then what was the role of Mr. Z. A Bhutto in Afghan policy, If you hold responsible PA for the first Afghan war then what about USA, SAUDI ARIBIA, and other European countries at that time.

If you hold responsible PA for sectarianism in country then what about proxy policies of KSA and Iranian in late 80s and 90s

If you hold responsible PA for our policy towards India then what about the role of civilian leadership from Liquat Ali Khan to Sikander Mirza

Dear I am not trying to be a devil&#8217;s advocate here, I am not asking these question to put blame on other side or to defend the our arm forces but to make a point that our both civilian and defence leadership took their part in history and now both of them should hold responsible not any single institution. 

This hard time has exposed our limitation and strengths, our failure and short come of our past policies, It is the time we need to revisit our all policies with mutual consensus, these are summarize challenges which we as a nation are facing it is beyond the capacity of any single institution or a segment of society.


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## aanshu001

BATMAN said:


> Well not soon enough, perpetrators had enough time to explode their waists!
> What were they waiting for? Why the never used this option, this time around? was it a co-incidence that all waists were defective? or they were deliberately sent in with defective waists?



I do think so, normally (my guess) an explosive expert would had prepared circuit of all bombs for a mission is same manner or circuit, so if there is flaw in one that means flaw in all (as they had fallowed same blue print).


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## Thorough Pro

HAIDER said:


> A question to people who spent their life in village and familiar with life in village. Can a group of people with load of weapon can pass through un noticed in the middle of night ?
> 
> Do you think someone inside the village provide them secured passage ?


 
You answered it yourself, there is no one to notice in the middle of the night.


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## MastanKhan

BATMAN said:


> I'm wondering why does the suicide waists failed this time? all of them I believe! Were they defective?
> 
> What could be, possible source of explosives?
> 
> IMO,, the attack was lousy? what could be reason for that?



Hi,

Seems like they did not get close to their target----. It just showed us that one vigilant soldier with the right weaponscan make such a big difference----.

This single act of defence must be an eye opener---where one vigilant soldier with some luck can deny passage to terrorists---then 10 vigilant soldiers can keep them out in the first place.

There is no magic wand in providing security to a fixed operations base---you just have to follow the simple and basic guidelines---you got to have feet on the ground.


Haider,

A fear of retaliation by the taliban---no security provided by the police---police arresting the informer and claiming he is the taliban maybe / could be some of the reasons that the villagers did not inform the base orraise an alarm.

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## blain2

MastanKhan said:


> But---the bottomline---the air base commander in karachi--he needs the hangman's noose---no ifs and buts. Untill and unless you people don't start up with the cleansing process---you people won't have a nation left---pretty soon.



At a very basic level, either in a court of law or that in the books of military law, your suggestion would not hold water. The reason for it is that whereas the base commander has a responsibility towards the security of the base, he himself is not the one holding a rifle and standing guard. He delegates this responsibility to his officers who delegate it to ORs. The Base commander is already paying for this with his career. Its over for him. Capital punishment for an incident in a situation where the best the base commander and those under his command can do is be reactive (which they were), is unfair any which way one looks at this.

I agree on the need for a fly by of the AEW&C platforms.

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## blain2

JonAsad said:


> National Pride was lost in 71- or we keep on loosing the remianing- in raymond- osama- GHQ- mehran- minhas-
> Maybe our national pride is so much fragile that some 10 talibunies in a failed attempt attacking a base dents it-
> i didnt see that in 9/11- 7/11- 26/11- infact those made them stronger- united-
> in our case Pride is directly propotional to talibunies attacking our military bases-



Or maybe we need to recalibrate what national pride really is. Of all the nations in the World, we are the most obsessed with national pride. Is national pride lost because of a terrorist attack against a military airfield? Or in the Raymond David case when the murderer pays the family blood money, or when we help the Americans get OBL? I am not sure why the national pride only comes into the picture when some outsiders are involved? Where is the bloody national pride when mobs rule the roost? Where is the national pride when people are going to sleep on empty stomachs or when we are raising an army of illiterates?

Why the obsession with national pride only when there is an attack on the security forces? Is it not their job to take on the militants and draw them away from civilians? For those suggesting lessons have not been learned, I beg to differ. PAF alone has 30+ major bases, sites. Army close 200, Navy somewhere in between 7-15. Then you count all of the strategic bases. At the end of the day, securing each and every one is a very costly proposition. So the reaction to the attempt at Kamra was not bad at all. I am not going to delve into what the PAF had done proactively based on the intelligence reporting, but suffice it to say, lessons have been learned and measures were taken. Until the TTP are hit at their home bases, we will remain in a reactive mode.

Personally, national pride be damned at this time. All that matters is that we, as a nation, win the day against the TTP and survive. National pride is a relative thing. To each person it means something different. I think the national pride is intact given the circumstances.

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## VCheng

Wise words indeed that bear repeating:



blain2 said:


> ............ *Where is the bloody national pride when mobs rule the roost? Where is the national pride when people are going to sleep on empty stomachs or when we are raising an army of illiterates?*
> 
> *Why the obsession with national pride only when there is an attack on the security forces?* Is it not their job to take on the militants and draw them away from civilians? ...............
> 
> Personally, national pride be damned at this time. *All that matters is that we, as a nation, win the day against the TTP and survive*. ................


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## MastanKhan

blain2 said:


> At a very basic level, either in a court of law or that in the books of military law, your suggestion would not hold water. The reason for it is that whereas the base commander has a responsibility towards the security of the base, he himself is not the one holding a rifle and standing guard. He delegates this responsibility to his officers who delegate it to ORs. The Base commander is already paying for this with his career. Its over for him. Capital punishment for an incident in a situation where the best the base commander and those under his command can do is be reactive (which they were), is unfair any which way one looks at this.
> 
> I agree on the need for a fly by of the AEW&C platforms.



Wow,

"base commander is already Paying for this with his career"----what a senseless statement----. Dereliction of duty is a capitol offence in any millitary and more so in time of war---. 

The job of a commander is just not only to designate but to make sure it is implemented as well---by surprise visits at the check points---. Incompetence is not an excuse for a base commander---.

Hang him high---the quality of the security will go up alarmingly---hang those officers as well who did not carry out the orders---efficiency will go thru the roof---

This post of your---reeks of support for incompetency---when you justify that the orders have been given but the others did not carry them out. Incidently---in the armed forces---there is a cure for that---aka---court martial.

The millitary can also do something else---humiliate him thru his friends---make him do the honorable things that the generals do when they fail.


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## Mani2020

blain2 said:


> Or maybe we need to recalibrate what national pride really is. Of all the nations in the World, we are the most obsessed with national pride. Is national pride lost because of a terrorist attack against a military airfield? Or in the Raymond David case when the murderer pays the family blood money, or when we help the Americans get OBL? I am not sure why the national pride only comes into the picture when some outsiders are involved? Where is the bloody national pride when mobs rule the roost? Where is the national pride when people are going to sleep on empty stomachs or when we are raising an army of illiterates?
> 
> Why the obsession with national pride only when there is an attack on the security forces? Is it not their job to take on the militants and draw them away from civilians? For those suggesting lessons have not been learned, I beg to differ. PAF alone has 30+ major bases, sites. Army close 200, Navy somewhere in between 7-15. Then you count all of the strategic bases. At the end of the day, securing each and every one is a very costly proposition. So the reaction to the attempt at Kamra was not bad at all. I am not going to delve into what the PAF had done proactively based on the intelligence reporting, but suffice it to say, lessons have been learned and measures were taken. Until the TTP are hit at their home bases, we will remain in a reactive mode.
> 
> Personally, national pride be damned at this time. All that matters is that we, as a nation, win the day against the TTP and survive. National pride is a relative thing. To each person it means something different. I think the national pride is intact given the circumstances.



exactly my point , thats what i was trying to convey in another forum and guess what i was tagged with indian, bharti and dont know what stuff and got banned .

That shows the tolerance of our society , you speak against their thoughts even on an open defence forum and they will kick you like anything . That is the reason why we are having so much extremism and violence .


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## blain2

MastanKhan said:


> Wow,
> 
> "base commander is already Paying for this with his career"----what a senseless statement----. Dereliction of duty is a capitol offence in any millitary and more so in time of war---.
> 
> The job of a commander is just not only to designate but to make sure it is implemented as well---by surprise visits at the check points---. Incompetence is not an excuse for a base commander---.
> 
> Hang him high---the quality of the security will go up alarmingly---hang those officers as well who did not carry out the orders---efficiency will go thru the roof---
> 
> This post of your---reeks of support for incompetency---when you justify that the orders have been given but the others did not carry them out. Incidently---in the armed forces---there is a cure for that---aka---court martial.
> 
> The millitary can also do something else---humiliate him thru his friends---make him do the honorable things that the generals do when they fail.



Mastan,

Dereliction of duty is not a "Capital" offense. Not according to the Pakistan Army act and not any other that I have heard or read about. You do not get sent to the gallows for things over which you did not have direct control. Even in a civilian court, if you are not the hand behind the trigger involved in someone's murder, you cannot be given the death penalty. 

Secondly, all of what you state is a set of assumptions which are all yours. For example, do you know for a fact that the base commander and his designated officers did not conduct inspections of the security measures? If you do not know for sure, then you cannot make a statement that suggests that the officers involved did not do such things.

Don't worry about what my post reeks of and instead focus on facts.

Responsibility and accountability are taken seriously in such matters. The officers involved have been punished in a manner in line with the laid down guidelines and military justice. What you suggest is essentially a knee-jerk reaction to satisfy ones' sense of frustration with the situation. Its hardly justice.

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## AstanoshKhan

Can anyone please summarise the thread which I didn't follow after the 50th page.... I know about the Martyred soldiers and may they R.I.P, but please can anyone tell something about the damage too.


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## Safriz

Govt tight-lipped over Kamra probe findings &#8211; The Express Tribune

Govt tight-lipped over Kamra probe findings
By Zahid Gishkori
Published: August 23, 2012

The government on Wednesday remained tightlipped over the probe into the attack on Kamra &#8211; one of Pakistan Air Force&#8217;s (PAF) key bases &#8211; after a group of militants attacked the military installation last week killing two security officials.
&#8220;There was a stony silence from the office of PAF Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt regarding findings of a high-level inquiry team,&#8221; said a senior official of the PAF.
A five-member probe committee, led by Air Marshal Athar Hussain Bokhari, is investigating how militants succeeded in targeting the airbase in Kamra &#8212; given the fact that the location had already been attacked twice before.
&#8220;We cannot share the findings of the inquiry on [Kamra] attack with anyone at the preliminary stage,&#8221; said PAF spokesperson Group Captain Tariq Mahmood. The spokesperson, who chose not to respond to the queries of The Express Tribune, only revealed that a team was investigating various issues which could not be revealed to civilians at this stage.
&#8220;Give us one or two more days for some concrete findings about the investigation,&#8221; he said when asked a question.
Inquiry reports of the two earlier periphery attacks on Kamra Airbase are yet to be made public and it has been over 18 months since the two high-level inquiries were ordered by then chief of air staff Marshal Rao Qamar Suleiman.
Officials associated with the probe committee told The Express Tribune that the central point of their investigation is to figure out who provided logistic support to the terrorists.
The preliminary investigation, a senior official said, has revealed clues that tell that four of the nine militants stayed in Makhan Suleman, the nearest village to Kamra Airbase. But the official refused to share any more details given the sensitivity of the matter.
Published in The Express Tribune, August 23rd, 2012.
Read more: kamrabase


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## Thorough Pro

blain2 said:


> the base commander has a responsibility towards the security of the base, he himself is not the one holding a rifle and standing guard. He delegates this responsibility to his officers who delegate it to ORs.



Sorry, one can assign tasks, delegate authority to perform those tasks, hold authorised persons responsible for the completin of those tasks, but one can not delegate his responsibility.


Delegation of authority does not absolve you of your responsibility.

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## Viper0011.

MastanKhan said:


> Wow,
> 
> "base commander is already Paying for this with his career"----what a senseless statement----. Dereliction of duty is a capitol offence in any millitary and more so in time of war---.
> 
> The job of a commander is just not only to designate but to make sure it is implemented as well---by surprise visits at the check points---. Incompetence is not an excuse for a base commander---.
> 
> Hang him high---the quality of the security will go up alarmingly---hang those officers as well who did not carry out the orders---efficiency will go thru the roof---
> 
> This post of your---reeks of support for incompetency---when you justify that the orders have been given but the others did not carry them out. Incidently---in the armed forces---there is a cure for that---aka---court martial.
> 
> The millitary can also do something else---humiliate him thru his friends---make him do the honorable things that the generals do when they fail.


 


I don't think this would be 'justice' to just put a capital punishment on someone due to a situation like the above. One thing is for certain and the US military is trained on it a LOT. When someone is crazy enough to kill themselves or blow themselves up, the other side doesn't really have any bargaining or fighting capacity left. 
In Taliban's case, these idiots are killing other muslims first before they can get to the 'Westerners'. And then there is kidnapping, ransoms, etc, etc. One would wonder how are they trying to 'spread Islam through its fundamental means' when these idiots are doing everything against it.
Nutt jobs are nutt jobs. Nothing you can do about it. The base commander was and will be investigated. That's just part of any military. 
My whole thing with this is that there had to be the inside help. TTP said that they were targeting AWACS. These guys partially got to one and damaged it. I think the plan was to catch the other one on the tarmac as it returned from the mission. However, sheer luck or schedule conflicts caused that slight delay. 
From a security's standpoint BUILD TALL WALLS in two layers around hangers. That eliminates visibility and next time, they can't see the assets inside 10 - 15 feet tall wall. Then have an outer perimeter of a few SSW's on patrol that can quickly respond to situations and then regular security on the check points with one or two APC's present. That way, it someone can crush the layer of guards. APC can immediately block the movement and it'll be safer from the small arms fire and grenades, etc.
You can't eliminate these attacks. You can minimize the impact of these by enhancing security measures. You can't fight with an enemy who's brains are empty from a commonsense standpoint and filled with hatred and craziness that he'd rather blow himself than doing something better with his life.
But the base commander should be investigated, UNLESS he's found guilty of gross negligence, the maximum may be that he won't be the base commander anymore

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## MastanKhan

hi,

In case of this base in karachi---they got high rises closer to the base if I am not wrong----they can look down----.

What I am saying is that if there are a reasonable number of combat ready security guards at posts---the attack on mehran would have been a failure as well. 

It is all about the weapons in hand and the reaction time---if you have G3's then an x amount of G3 equipped guards should have beenb stationed at check points---and they would have been sufficient to take out the culprits---. 

Kamra proved that even one guard with an automatic weapons and some luck give needed time to the incompetent to become competent---.

What Kamra showed was that there was no security placed at Mehran or there were massive gaps in security and lack of automatic weapons given to security.

There is no rocket science involved in this thing---the base commander cannot even do this much---.

Don't you feel ashamed----is there no shame left in you people when you come and defend such basic and fundamental mistakes and judgemental errors due to incompetence and negligence and then try and cover it up---. What kind of sickness is that.

From the reaction at both the bases supports my analysis---at kamra---a very minimal security with automatic weapons---at mehran base---absolutely negligible number of security with automatic weapons---.

If it is not in the constitution of millitary to hang the officer---then it can be instituted---and if it cannot be instituted then some body got to do this favour to the country---.

This is war---the generals need to be hanged by their necks for incompetence and dereliction of duty---their properties confiscated---an example set---. It is all in due time---it will happen---it has to happen to save pakistan from the criminally negligent---. 

The air force cannot keep on hiding its traitors---like Air Marshall Rahim---or Asghar Khan---.


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## MastanKhan

I was just scrolling thru an old notebook and came across this saying that I had written down----. I have often wondered why some of you have been saying such silly things in your posts that you people do---but this statement made me understand it better---here it is for you and a few others on this board---.

" HUMANS DON'T RISE TO THE OCCASSION---INSTEAD---WE ALL FALL TO OUR LEVEL OF TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE " Archilocus---a greek soldier poet.

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## XYON

AS per convoluted logic of some here regarding the actions of Base Commander of PAF Base Minhas vs. Base Commander of PNS Mehran.

1. PNS Mehran also thwarted the attack at the cost of damaged P3C Orion vs PAF Minhas thwarted the attack at the cost of damage to Erieye.

2. PNS Mehran attackers were also suicidal vs PAF Base Minhas Base attackers who were also suicidal

3. PNS Mehran Base attackers scaled the barbed wire wall vs PAF Base Minhas Base attackers also scaled the barbed wire wall

4. PNS Mehran Base attacker were engaged INSIDE the base vs PAF Minhas Base attackers were also engaged INSIDE the base

5. PNS Mehran Base attackers target was Surveillance Aircraft vs PAF Minhas Base attackers target was also surveillance aircrafts

6. PNS Mehran base attackers were killed in a gunfight by PN SSG vs PAF Minhas Base attackers were also killed by PA SSG

7. PNS Mehran base attackers were around 9 in number vs PAF Minhas Base attackers were also 9 in number

8. Both attacks happened during open declaration by our services chief that Pakistan is in a state of war!

9. Both attacks happened during night time when the 'human senses' are at the lowest.

10. Both attacks had involved TTP recon, digging and storage of weapons near the base perimeter, firing of RPG's on target aircraft.

So with the commonalities in the two attacks above, questions beget.

1. Why was NOT the PAF base prepared to counter such simple breaches despite earlier attacks, forward intel and other warnings? 

2. Why under the same military code was the PNS Mehran Commander Court Martialed while PAF Base Commander is being hailed as a 'hero' by some?

3. Why was not the PAF Base Minhas perimeter security enhanced despite being in a state of war & open information available on the modus operandi of the TTP attack pattern?

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## Jango

MastanKhan said:


> hi,
> 
> 
> It is all about the weapons in hand and the reaction time---if you have G3's then an x amount of G3 equipped guards should have beenb stationed at check points---and they would have been sufficient to take out the culprits---.
> 
> Kamra proved that even one guard with an automatic weapons and some luck give needed time to the incompetent to become competent---.
> 
> What Kamra showed was that there was no security placed at Mehran or there were massive gaps in security and lack of automatic weapons given to security.
> .



So, at PNS Mehran, there were pistols or revolvers?


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## sohailbarki

The questions comes to my mind is that how did they got C4 explosive in such a quantity, second is that there seem to be no ball bearing or nails embedded with the explosive, which they could use to attack solider or checkpoints which means these explosive were mint to destroy aircraft's once they get inside or reach proximity.


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## Viper0011.

XYON said:


> 1. PNS Mehran also thwarted the attack at the cost of damaged P3C Orion vs PAF Minhas thwarted the attack at the cost of damage to Erieye.
> 
> 3. PNS Mehran Base attackers scaled the barbed wire wall vs PAF Base Minhas Base attackers also scaled the barbed wire wall
> 
> 5. PNS Mehran Base attackers target was Surveillance Aircraft vs PAF Minhas Base attackers target was also surveillance aircrafts
> 
> So with the commonalities in the two attacks above, questions beget.
> 
> 2. Why under the same military code was the PNS Mehran Commander Court Martialed while PAF Base Commander is being hailed as a 'hero' by some?
> 
> 3. Why was not the PAF Base Minhas perimeter security enhanced despite being in a state of war & open information available on the modus operandi of the TTP attack pattern?


 

You brought up some good points. Here's my answer to your questions by numbers:

1) The attacks were not 'thwarted' by any means. In case of PNS Mehran, they achieved their objective and burned down two Orions. In the case of Minhas, there was damage to an AWACS. So in either case, the objectives were achieved, partially or fully. Imagine a war time scenario and your 25% of the AEW is out for a week (one out of three AWACS)....VERY DANGEROUS!

5) Bases are usually miles long. It's hard to put concrete wires all along. Plus it seems as these bases were closer to population so that has its advantages but in this case, total disadvantage. They can come from any direction, cut the barbed fence and enter in. Unless the barbed fence has check posts and camera monitoring and electricity.
My point here is BUILD TWO TALL WALL perimeters around the hangers. 11-15 feet tall concrete walls with electric barbed wires on top. A check point outside with a VERY HEAVY metallic gate. One wall circle will secure the hangers and the other will will house the planes that sit outside for missions. That way, you've hidden the vision from the outside and it'll be hard for these terrorists to see the assets live. They'll never show up as an organized army so they'll always have RPG types of stuff. Walls will help a lot.


4) Correct, both target India-specific spy planes. Go figure who's behind it. However, if the attackers had the capability to 'freely' fire on PAF's assets, you'll be surprised how much the damage would be. Just a couple of RPG's and SMG's at close distance firing a few bullets at 10 planes (an example), would cause hundreds of millions of damage. If you hit the plane around its gas tank, you'll burn it, if you hit it on certain points, you can destroy avionics, wiring, etc. Resulting in putting the plane out of service and then spending millions on getting new radars , avionics, etc. The possibility of damage was a LOT more if the attacker could get a free hand like the Mehran attack.

Now to the other section: No: 2:
I don't think they are treating this base commander as a celebrity here. I think he'll be investigated as this is part of any military. However, the fact that he took a bullet when he could be sitting in a safe area, does show his willingness to sacrifice his life for his country. So you always have to take that into consideration. If they moved him off tomorrow or put him to jail....what's the message you are sending to other officers? He wasn't cousins with these terrorists...but he did put his life on the line to prevent further damage. 
The only other distinction is that the base houses around 40 planes. If these terrorists had the free hand, like I explained above, about 5 magazines of AK 47 might put out 10 - 15 of your expensive aircraft. Not to mention significant damage to AWACS as each of them costs like 150 - 200 million dollars. So this is the distinction, the attack's impact was marginalized to what it could have been. If any of these guys had 15 - 20 minutes more before they were head on with the SSW, you BET they would've caused a lot of damage, definitely over $ 200 - 300 million dollars. THAT's A LOT of money for the PAF!



sohailbarki said:


> The questions comes to my mind is that how did they got C4 explosive in such a quantity, second is that there seem to be no ball bearing or nails embedded with the explosive, which they could use to attack solider or checkpoints which means these explosive were mint to destroy aircraft's once they get inside or reach proximity.



Yes, I just posted explaining that their target was the AWACS and other aircraft. Damage as many as you can and destroy through suicide vest the ones that are high profile. If these terrorists had their ways, they could've destroyed about a few hundred million dollars worth of equipment and put a HUGE dent into PAF's budget (a few hundred million may mean 15% or more of PAF's budget)

About C4s: This is the same point that the NATO's been trying to make to Pakistan and to operate in these areas to get rid of these explosive making factories. This is a HUGE threat to Pakistan, that any crazy low life can get C4 from the FATA areas. NATO will leave one day...who do you think these idiots will go after? PAKISTAN. Whether you support the US or Not. They will wreck havoc in Pakistan irrespective of her support. Imagine, any modern schooling or other systems that the government might want to implement, that'll make Pakistan a safer, modern country, these people will have an issue with. The response will be "Either you stop of we'll send these terrorists to blow themselves up". If Pakistan doesn't root out this cancer now, it'll spread to her own cities and will become very common and there will be no cure!!! Look at these guys destroying schools in the FATA area, etc.


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## blain2

Thorough Pro said:


> Sorry, one can assign tasks, delegate authority to perform those tasks, hold authorised persons responsible for the completin of those tasks, but one can not delegate his responsibility.
> 
> 
> Delegation of authority does not absolve you of your responsibility.



I never said that, thus he is out of the service. Delegation of responsibility vs. delegation of authority is a word play. It is not humanly possible for a base commander to give a command and then follow up on each and every command himself. This is the reason that all military units have a staff function and multiple officers responsible for aspects concerning the unit or the base.

At the end of the day, the command is that of the base commander and there was a lapse in one aspect of his command and for that he has paid with his service. So not sure why we are going about with this word play? Can you make a case that not being responsible with your command can result in the death penalty?


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## A1Kaid

PM needs to remain on high alert, fortify all bases reform security checkpoint set ups.


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## foxbat

A1Kaid said:


> PM needs to remain on high alert, fortify all bases reform security checkpoint set ups.



And that's why these attacks despite immediate outcomes are always a success.. If nothing else they just increased the cost to Pakistani military of maintaining bases, many times over...


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## blain2

XYON said:


> AS per convoluted logic of some here regarding the actions of Base Commander of PAF Base Minhas vs. Base Commander of PNS Mehran.
> 
> 1. PNS Mehran also thwarted the attack at the cost of damaged P3C Orion vs PAF Minhas thwarted the attack at the cost of damage to Erieye.
> 
> 2. PNS Mehran attackers were also suicidal vs PAF Base Minhas Base attackers who were also suicidal
> 
> 3. PNS Mehran Base attackers scaled the barbed wire wall vs PAF Base Minhas Base attackers also scaled the barbed wire wall
> 
> 4. PNS Mehran Base attacker were engaged INSIDE the base vs PAF Minhas Base attackers were also engaged INSIDE the base
> 
> 5. PNS Mehran Base attackers target was Surveillance Aircraft vs PAF Minhas Base attackers target was also surveillance aircrafts
> 
> 6. PNS Mehran base attackers were killed in a gunfight by PN SSG vs PAF Minhas Base attackers were also killed by PA SSG
> 
> 7. PNS Mehran base attackers were around 9 in number vs PAF Minhas Base attackers were also 9 in number
> 
> 8. Both attacks happened during open declaration by our services chief that Pakistan is in a state of war!
> 
> 9. Both attacks happened during night time when the 'human senses' are at the lowest.
> 
> 10. Both attacks had involved TTP recon, digging and storage of weapons near the base perimeter, firing of RPG's on target aircraft.
> 
> So with the commonalities in the two attacks above, questions beget.
> 
> 1. Why was NOT the PAF base prepared to counter such simple breaches despite earlier attacks, forward intel and other warnings?
> 
> 2. Why under the same military code was the PNS Mehran Commander Court Martialed while PAF Base Commander is being hailed as a 'hero' by some?
> 
> 3. Why was not the PAF Base Minhas perimeter security enhanced despite being in a state of war & open information available on the modus operandi of the TTP attack pattern?



Valid points to a certain extent but also a need to blend some reality into the above.

Some additional points to add to this list:

i) Can we move the bases away from populated areas where the bulk of these bases exist due to constant growth of civilian population around these areas?

ii) Can we afford/fund technology and capabilities in use in the West for perimeter defence of their bases? Can we deploy these at all of our bases? The ISAF/NATO constantly take probing attacks and from time to time major attacks against their bases in Afghanistan despite implementing layers of security including technology. The reason for this is because the entire posture is reactive. 

iii) Are the security standards for individual bases regulated by the base commanders or through regulations set by the service? Are these standards/measures deemed affordable at all of the bases?

Given you have all of the above restrictions, how can one expect the military to react to these situations and then be able to secure everything 100%? All the terrorists have to do is to blow a remote controlled bomb in the vicinity of a military installation to win the propaganda war. The military has to not only defeat attacks on its locations, it has to proactively hit these people for which there is no mood. The people involved most likely were all Punjabi taliban. What if the military goes in operation cleanup style (as in Sind) against these elements in the Punjab? That to me is the key "proactive" measure that the military can take, do you think the ruling parties will allow that?

All of what has been discussed thus far is "tactical" protection. What we need is more than that. If I am asked to secure a site, I will ask for significant amount of funding to make the security fool proof. Do you think we have that sort of funding x number of sites to secure?

All in all, the response at Kamra was better than at Mehran. Lessons have been learned and applied to the degree feasible.


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## HRK

Bossman said:


> Stop barking and take your fitna somewhere else. It is obvious what you are trying to do. If anyone is murtid, it is people like you.



Have you read the post completely ....or you are so stupid that its beyond your mental capacity.....dont use abusive language again......


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## Windjammer

Is the C-4 only meant to explode through detonation, ??
It's ironic, with all the devastation, the explosives remain intact. !!

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## A1Kaid

blain2 said:


> Valid points to a certain extent but also a need to blend some reality into the above.
> 
> Some additional points to add to this list:
> 
> i) Can we move the bases away from populated areas where the bulk of these bases exist due to constant growth of civilian population around these areas?
> 
> ii) Can we afford/fund technology and capabilities in use in the West for perimeter defence of their bases? Can we deploy these at all of our bases?
> 
> iii) Are the security standards for individual bases regulated by the base commanders or through regulations set by the service? Are these standards/measures deemed affordable at all of the bases?
> 
> Given you have all of the above restrictions, how can one expect the military to react to these situations and then be able to secure everything 100%? All the terrorists have to do is to blow a remote controlled bomb in the vicinity of a military installation to win the propaganda war. The military has to not only defeat attacks on its locations, it has to proactively hit these people for which there is no mood. The people involved most likely were all Punjabi taliban. What if the military goes in operation cleanup style (as in Sind) against these elements in the Punjab? That to me is the key "proactive" measure that the military can take, do you think the ruling parties will allow that?
> 
> All of what you state is "tactical" protection. What we need is more than that. If I am asked to secure a site, I will ask for significant amount of funding to make the security fool proof. Do you think we have that sort of funding x number of sites to secure?
> 
> All in all, the response at Kamra was better than at Mehran. Lessons have been learned and applied to the degree feasible.





> ii) Can we afford/fund technology and capabilities in use in the West for perimeter defence of their bases? Can we deploy these at all of our bases?



Yes "we" can and not sure what specific technology you're referring to but they need to be in place at all major military bases. Also this kind of operation could have been prevented by manpower alone it didn't need sophisticated technology to thwart such an attack.




> iii) Are the security standards for individual bases regulated by the base commanders or through regulations set by the service? Are these standards/measures deemed affordable at all of the bases?



I would imagine security standards are or should be set by the service, "individual bases" they maybe "individual bases" by separation by land but they are all apart of a cohesive military network, these aren't like rebel outposts where there are fragmented and separate strong holds, each with their own uniqueness and standards.

If these standards aren't "affordable" then what are we doing? Why have standards in the first place? This is not the question whether these standards are affordable this is pity reasoning the question should be are these standards being reformed to the new threat and are they being _executed_.


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## blain2

foxbat said:


> And that's why these attacks despite immediate outcomes are always a success.. If nothing else they just increased the cost to Pakistani military of maintaining bases, many times over...



Many here think that just by suggesting "tighten up security" its done magically without having to worry about funding all the while the Army and the PAF are actively engaged in an enormously costly LIC.



Windjammer said:


> Is the C-4 only meant to explode through detonation, ??
> It's ironic, with all the devastation, the explosives remain intact. !!



You need to detonate C-4. It just does not go off by itself. Its considered a stable explosive. You can carry it around, lob it and nothing would go off unless you detonate it.

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## A1Kaid

Windjammer said:


> Is the C-4 only meant to explode through detonation, ??
> It's ironic, with all the devastation, the explosives remain intact. !!



C4 only detonates through proper detonation, shooting it doesn't detonate it.

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## Safriz

Team effort thwarted Kamra attack | The Nation

now they say terrorists penetrated first and second layer of security..
What ever that may be.


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## blain2

A1Kaid said:


> Yes "we" can and not sure what specific technology you're referring to but they need to be in place at all major military bases. Also this kind of operation could have been prevented by manpower alone it didn't need sophisticated technology to thwart such an attack.



The attack was thwarted. The only damage was an RPG fired which did not find its target. Lets be clear on this point. The technology could be motion monitors around the perimeter to active monitoring of the perimeter with means beyond CCTV to ensure that blindspots are catered to. The reality is that you CANNOT implement these at ALL the bases just because it would be extremely cost prohibitive. I am not able to give a dollar amount, but this is something that will not be very easily achievable.



> I would imagine security standards are or should be set by the service, "individual bases" they maybe "individual bases" by separation by land but they are all apart of a cohesive military network, these aren't like rebel outposts where there are fragmented and separate strong holds, each with their own uniqueness and standards.



I think you missed my point. The base commander cannot be held liable for security standards that, if set by the AHQ, are found to be less than sufficient at certain locations. The base security and its standards are set up by an authority beyond the base commander. Yes the base commander would have his input and that of his security team, but going back to the original point, the base commander is responsible, but not entirely for such failures.



> If these standards aren't "affordable" then what are we doing? Why have standards in the first place? This is not the question whether these standards are affordable this is pity reasoning the question should be are these standards being reformed to the new threat and are they being _executed_.



The standards are revised. Just don't be oblivious to the costs of upgrading security standards and bringing in capabilities that we do not have in place. At a very basic level, Pakistan is fighting a war with a budget, as unaffordable as it is at the current level, which is not sufficient.


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

The bases are going to stay where they are---it is easier to raise the level of conscience regarding security by regular training and speech sessions by security experts---.


Blain2----looking at your recent and post of he past---you always have a 'SOB STORY' why things can't be done---you are always full of lame excuses.

Man---you have always been a failure in your assessments for over the years---why don't you give us a break and stop posting such defeatist mindset posts.

Fascinating isn't it---a base that has around 2--4 billion dollars worth of weapons systems is concerned about two hundred thousand dollars to half million dollars worth of security expense----I am not talking about electronic security---but regular foot soldiers with automatic weapons---night vision goggles and dog patrols at the least.

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## Safriz

and we all know that 100 million dollar bespoke fence by raytheon failed to detect a man who entered the JFK and walked across runways into the building..
So there is no such thing as foolproof security.


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## blain2

Safriz said:


> Team effort thwarted Kamra attack | The Nation
> 
> now they say terrorists penetrated first and second layer of security..
> What ever that may be.



Not clear what the first and second quadrant means. Does that really equate to first and second layers of security? I do not think so.


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## Pfpilot

The security of Military bases is extremely important but it misses the wider dilemma. SSGs can be placed at every check point of every base and it would not curtail the attacks. The damage can be limited by superior security and reaction time ofcourse, but if we want to prevent attacks outright then the solution is altogether different.

Pakistan has a massive population; only radicalization of a small percentage provides extremist organizations with an endless pool of young and fit men to throw into battle. If we are to prevent attacks that risk our soldiers and our million/billion dollar assets, then we must strike at the heart of the enemy (to paraphrase MastanKhan). But even that statement requires clarification, because you can kill all potential extremists and those who make up the supply network, but it will only clear up the path for the next generation of extremists to rise sooner into the upper echelons of extremist groups. 

In the end, facing an unconventional enemy requires an unconventional response: schools, books, freedom of expression...the ability of these people to exercise critical thinking is what is going to save them from the pull of the extremely shaky logic of extremist philosophy and it'll save us from trying to fight an enemy that wants nothing more than to die. The western edge of Pakistan has been neglected for decades and the lack of infrastructure has created breeding grounds for the worst kind of person: one who wants to kill and then die himself. You cannot reason with such a man; similarly, you cannot fight such a man and win since your death or his death, both signify victory to him. If we don't provide the upcoming generation of Pakistanis with the education that provides them the mental capacity to make the right decision, we will continue to fail. 

While probably unpopular and too slow paced to appeal to most members, this is the only way to systematically and completely eliminate the terrorist threat we face.

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## Armstrong

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The bases are going to stay where they are---it is easier to raise the level of conscience regarding security by regular training and speech sessions by security experts---.
> 
> 
> Blain2----looking at your recent and post of he past---you always have a 'SOB STORY' why things can't be done---you are always full of lame excuses.
> 
> Man---you have always been a failure in your assessments for over the years---why don't you give us a break and stop posting such defeatist mindset posts.
> 
> Fascinating isn't it---a base that has around 2--4 billion dollars worth of weapons systems is concerned about two hundred thousand dollars to half million dollars worth of security expense----I am not talking about electronic security---but regular foot soldiers with automatic weapons---night vision goggles and dog patrols at the least.


*

Mastan Bhai*, I still can't wrap my mind across the logic that we (alright you and others who've adopted this line of reasoning !) know more about protecting these multi-billion dollar assets then the people who've studied and trained for these exact things for the better part of their professional life ! Come on yaar some fairly venerable names have served in the PAF in general and these named bases in particular....you're telling me they couldn't think up these things and somehow you could ?


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## blain2

Pfpilot, could not agree with you more. We are mired in this tactical response issue forgetting the need to proactively go at the fountainhead of this problem.

Also let me clarify one point. It is not the job of the SSG/SSW to protect and guard sites. Theirs is an offensive tasking. In a defensive role, the SSG operator is no different than the infantryman or a DSG guard. That hapless lad is essentially waiting for someone to lob a grenade or fire a burst at him.

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## Safriz

^^^there is no proof..factual or logical that the attackers were extremist religious nazis....


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## blain2

Safriz said:


> ^^^there is no proof..factual or logical that the attackers were extremist religious nazis....


You are right. But going by the past, in every single attack, the trigger pullers have been locals.


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## Safriz

blain2 said:


> You are right. But going by the past, in every single attack, the trigger pullers have been locals.


 
Under curent economic conditions paying 1 caror to the youngest brother ina family of 6 can lead to one fit young man their trainee for the attack..
When one awacs costs 250 million dollars..
Paying 10 to 15 caror PKR for destroying them is cheap as chips..
I am not saying that there is no extremist factor but we may well be barking up the wrong tree all along,and somebody out there may be buying these people purely on financial grounds and trainingnthem as cheap and secretive alternative to firing misssiles on pakistan or sending their airforce,and you know who i mean.

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## Safriz

On the scale and accuracy of the attack..There should be arrests and investigation in all the villages on the rear of the Airbase as somebody there is on the side of the attackers and has been facilitating continuous monitoring of the airbase...



> Some questions... By Ausaf
> 24 August, 2012
> 
> The security personnel at the PAF Base Minhas, Kamra, need to be applauded for effectively engaging the militants and killing nine of them.
> 
> The attack on the air force base at Kamra has raised a few questions as to how the militants were able to infiltrate into the highly guarded air base and were able to engage security personnel inside the base for nearly four hours. Why was the entire perimeter of the base not covered and monitored round the clock by stationary and patrolling guards, thus enabling the intruders to scale a 2.7 metre high wall strung with barbed wire to break into the base from behind the base at around 2:00 am? Why was the likely approach of the enemy from outside the base area around the base perimeter not guarded?
> 
> No attack on well protected military installations can be carried out unless the attackers and their sponsors have full information about their targets. Attackers cannot infiltrate into the protected target as easily as they did at the Kamra airbase without having prior knowledge about the target and the route to be taken to reach the target.
> 
> The PAF must look into all possibilities when investigating this attack. It is suggested that the services of PAF retired officers expert in the security of air bases who have participated in both the Indo-Pak wars of 1965 and 1971 may be obtained to benefit the PAF with their rich valuable experience.
> 
> SQN LDR (RETD) S AUSAF HUSAIN Karachi



Some questions... By Ausaf - PakTribune


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## Imran Khan




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## Safriz

^^^ baseless brain farts from our useless media


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## blain2

Why do you discount the report? Just wondering.


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## Safriz

blain2 said:


> Why do you discount the report? Just wondering.



because one news paper receives an anonymous call from an unnamed person claiming responsibility of the attack..they publish the news and that's taken as the final word on who has done it..
This trend has to change if the roots of terrorism has to be cut..and i am sure there is much more to it than mere religious extremism..specially in Kamra base attack....


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## Windjammer

ARY is reporting that interrogation from the arrested mastermind and other culprits has revealed that the attackers main mission was not to blow up any assets, rather to kidnap high PAF officials and then set conditions to have their demands met by the GOP.


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## Safriz

Windjammer said:


> ARY is reporting that interrogation from the arrested mastermind and other culprits has revealed that the attackers main mission was not to blow up any assets, rather to kidnap high PAF officials and then set conditions to have their demands met by the GOP.



Does that make any sense?

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## Windjammer

Safriz said:


> Does that make any sense?



Most of them were killed with their explosive belts intact.....may be they wanted to create a hostage situation. ???


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## Safriz

Windjammer said:


> Most of them were killed with their explosive belts intact.....may be they wanted to create a hostage situation. ???



reaching AWACS hanger was easier than tracing and then capturing a living human being.....
that's why i say...continuous brain farts by our media.


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## Amaa'n

Safriz said:


> reaching AWACS hanger was easier than tracing and then capturing a living human being.....
> that's why i say...continuous brain farts by our media.


 
for some reason I find it hard to digest but a rocket was fired at AWACS may be the goal was to destory any plane be it il 78, J17 or the awacs and then go for a hostage situation, that was reason they were wearing suicide vests, we saw the similar thing in pns mehran attack


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## Windjammer

Safriz said:


> reaching AWACS hanger was easier than tracing and then capturing a living human being.....
> that's why i say...continuous brain farts by our media.



Indeed it was easier, may be that was a diversion, perhaps the involvement of base commander was due to this reason. 
I am sure those captured are singing like a Canary.


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## Rafi

Senior member of TTP has been taken out in Afghanistan, in co-operation with NATO/ISAF - takfiri is very close to HM.


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## Farah Sohail

Rafi said:


> Senior member of TTP has been taken out in Afghanistan,* in co-operation with NATO/ISAF *- takfiri is very close to HM.



@bold.. Why would NATO/ISAF help to take out terrorists supported by them?


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## Rafi

Farah Sohail said:


> @bold.. Why would NATO/ISAF help to take out terrorists supported by them?



I would say turning a blind eye - more than support - but it is a good sign - is it not.

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## iPhone

Windjammer said:


> ARY is reporting that interrogation from the arrested mastermind and other culprits has revealed that the attackers main mission was not to blow up any assets, rather to kidnap high PAF officials and then set conditions to have their demands met by the GOP.



Maybe they are trying to cover up for their financers?


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## Safriz

Rafi said:


> Senior member of TTP has been taken out in Afghanistan, in co-operation with NATO/ISAF - takfiri is very close to HM.



Every other bearded guy they kill in Afghanistan is some "Important commander/Leader" of Al-Qaeda or Taliban..They been Killing Al qaeda leaders for the last 10 years,so don't get excited on the news they throw at us..
Its all Topi Drama..

If killing leadership had any effect on Terrorism the (allegedly) Killing Osama bin laden should have finished it all..But we see no change what so ever...


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## airmarshal

I never believed they were after any aircraft. The idea is to create a spectacle. The good thing is that before they reached their objective, they were eliminated. To me objective looked more like occupying a building and engage in a long fire fight. So to keep the attack in the news for a longer period.

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## MastanKhan

Armstrong said:


> *
> 
> Mastan Bhai*, I still can't wrap my mind across the logic that we (alright you and others who've adopted this line of reasoning !) know more about protecting these multi-billion dollar assets then the people who've studied and trained for these exact things for the better part of their professional life ! Come on yaar some fairly venerable names have served in the PAF in general and these named bases in particular....you're telling me they couldn't think up these things and somehow you could ?



Hi,

As I stated many a times---proof is in the pudding. Regardless of what the millitary says or comes out with---they needed that 10 minutes respite from Sipahi Asif---if it was not for that warrior making his stand---it was all gloom and doom.

Remember---security is a frame of mind---please read my signature---.

All secure areas need to have better relationship with the civilian neighbours---that is the first line of defence against the intruders---. They need to be your friends---they need to be your go to guys---they need to be the frontline----and you need to give them security against the terrorists---and you need to find ways to reward them for their good deeds---you need to get them on your side---you need to make them believe in you---this is all about marketing----marketing yourself is one of the biggest part of security---.

Bottomline is that either you have marketed yourself better to your neighbours or your enemies have marketed themselves to your neighbours---it would be rather you who needs to win---.

You need to find ways to have your neighbors contact you in a secure manner---they need to inform you of any new comers in the area---they need to tell you who is doing anything suspicious---. Now think about it---what would something like that cost you---ie the base---some extra sugar---milk---cooking oil---clothing---some other goodies---treat these neighbors right and make them your watchdogs----.

Now where is nuclear science involved in this---now where do you need a rocket scientist to do this job---this is basics---fundamental of security 101---it is the 1st grade class lesson.

These financially poor terrorists are going to find refuge in the poor housing areas or maybe blue color workers areas---that is where they would make their planning---.

As I always say---amongst other things---and that is the 'mantra' of success in my business and every other business---it is always the basics that we forget to enforce that create and cause bigger problems---either in security---where there are not the minimal enough feet on the ground with automatic weapons and transmitters.

So far---all our security breaches have been due to a lack of common sense kind of security enforcement---. None of these breaches have been due to the reason of anything involving high tech items used by the terrorists.

I appreciate the comments of many a posters about this issue---but please----do the basics first---don't ride the wave of technology all the time---. Technology can be sabotaged as well---human factor is still the most important factor in countering tthe challenges of security breaches.


Armstrong---it is not about if they thought about it or not---the issue is here about implementation---the issue here is when the strike occurred why was there not enough security on the parameter.


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## Vinod2070

Safriz said:


> Every other bearded guy they kill in Afghanistan is some "Important commander/Leader" of Al-Qaeda or Taliban..They been Killing Al qaeda leaders for the last 10 years,so don't get excited on the news they throw at us..
> Its all Topi Drama..
> 
> If killing leadership had any effect on Terrorism the (allegedly) Killing Osama bin laden should have finished it all..But we see no change what so ever...


 
Actually the killing of terror leaders has had a significant impact in the terror incidents worldwide.

Iraq is much better now and in most of the world, terror situation is better.

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## XYON

Latest out of AHQ - MINHAS AIRBASE COMMANDER RECOMMENDED FOR EARLY RETIREMENT MINUS BENEFITS BY THE INVESTIGATION BOARD - and please do not 'eat' my head on this as this news is from a source inside the AHQ and the final decision in this regards has to be given by the CAS. So yes, it could go either way!

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## Bratva

XYON said:


> Latest out of AHQ - MINHAS AIRBASE COMMANDER RECOMMENDED FOR EARLY RETIREMENT MINUS BENEFITS BY THE INVESTIGATION BOARD - and please do not 'eat' my head on this as this news is from a source inside the AHQ and the final decision in this regards has to be given by the CAS. So yes, it could go either way!



Base commandar had a specefic Intel his base would be attacked. Despite of this He didn't care to plug the weak spots and terrorists manage to breach two layers of security and damaged an AWAC and in order to hide his incompetence, Base commander tried to engage in heroics. He should have seen that coming.

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## IceCold

XYON said:


> Latest out of AHQ - MINHAS AIRBASE COMMANDER RECOMMENDED FOR EARLY RETIREMENT MINUS BENEFITS BY THE INVESTIGATION BOARD - and please do not 'eat' my head on this as this news is from a source inside the AHQ and the final decision in this regards has to be given by the CAS. So yes, it could go either way!



When the country is at a state of war, i don't understand how can people be so negligent and that too at such important places such as a base commander.Astonishing

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## Windjammer

*Kamra airbase attack: Preliminary investigation report compiled*


ISLAMABAD - A preliminary investigation report on the August 16 attack on Pakistan Air Forces (PAF) Kamra air base has been compiled which claims that the attackers had no insider help.
According to a private TV channel, the report said that the weapons used by the attackers were of Russian origin and that the militants used five hand grenades and fire three rocket propelled grenades (RPG)s in the attack. During inspections, investigators also collected 223 spent casings of AK-47 rifles used by the assailants in the attack.
Two of the attackers have been identified and one of them was reported to be a resident of Taxila.

Kamra airbase attack: Preliminary investigation report compiled | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia


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## Safriz

so a few measly Ak-47 overpowerd G-3

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## Irfan Baloch

MastanKhan said:


> All secure areas need to have better relationship with the civilian neighbours---that is the first line of defence against the intruders---. They need to be your friends---they need to be your go to guys---they need to be the frontline----and you need to give them security against the terrorists---and you need to find ways to reward them for their good deeds---you need to get them on your side---you need to make them believe in you---this is all about marketing----marketing yourself is one of the biggest part of security---.



during the 80s, it was in fact a smart thinking local Shepard who identified a suspicious looking rock that was placed near the road that was used by the vehicles to and from the Khauta plant. he reported that out to the military intelligence and later on that rock was identified to be containing sensors. 


> Bottomline is that either you have marketed yourself better to your neighbours or your enemies have marketed themselves to your neighbours---it would be rather you who needs to win---.
> 
> You need to find ways to have your neighbors contact you in a secure manner---they need to inform you of any new comers in the area---they need to tell you who is doing anything suspicious---. Now think about it---what would something like that cost you---ie the base---some extra sugar---milk---cooking oil---clothing---some other goodies---treat these neighbors right and make them your watchdogs----.



I recall another incident where a European Diplomat was bundled up and roughed up after he was reported by the locals in the sensitive area again it was during the 80s

fast forward in time, it seems that nationalism and patriotism is replaced by fanaticism and pseudo world jihadism and for that people are not only the willing hosts of throat slitting terrorists but also willing to offer their homes to store explosives in a densely populated areas.


> These financially poor terrorists are going to find refuge in the poor housing areas or maybe blue color workers areas---that is where they would make their planning---.



maybe not financially poor, they are quite resourceful to be able to wage a decade old war with a state. maybe they are financially shrewd and able to carry out operations with least footprints.


> So far---all our security breaches have been due to a lack of common sense kind of security enforcement---. None of these breaches have been due to the reason of anything involving high tech items used by the terrorists.
> 
> I appreciate the comments of many a posters about this issue---but please----do the basics first---don't ride the wave of technology all the time---. Technology can be sabotaged as well---human factor is still the most important factor in countering tthe challenges of security breaches.



basic human intelligence has been the bread and butter of our 'modus operandi', our agents dont use pocket sized gadgets that link up with satellites and when needed can change into a rocket pack or a speed boat when needed. they hang around where public is about and then report back. these terrorists are a paranoid lot and they are extra careful, in the tribal areas our intelligence services have lost a lot of field operatives and informants. TTP and BLA are very generous in executing only on the bases of suspicions. they even killed little children who were seen taking sweets from army checkposts in Parachinar few years back on the suspicion that they were spying for the Pak army.



oh by the way.. thats my 5000th post

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## Bratva

^ We lost more than 50 Intelligence agents while infiltrating NWA terrorist networks. Mentioned in some report which discussed how difficult it is to establish a spy network in tribal areas

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## Hyperion

Irfan Baloch said:


> oh by the way.. thats my 5000th post



Congrats on the 5000's post! 

You're right about the human element of our intelligence, they used to rely almost completely on that, during the 80's and 90's.

In early 90's got invited couple of times to 'garden BBQ's' @ Kahuta. I don't remember being checked EVEN ONCE, all my way to the labs, I mean not even once, and strangely as soon as I arrived, everyone knew the exact times when I passed through different areas (beginning from F7, Islamabad). Additionally, during those days I don't remember a single surveillance camera in place, nor a single check post all the way to the main door (gate) of the labs!

Edit: I was asked for my car number plates three days in advance, initially, only once, after that.........NEVER!

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## Hyperion

Rafi said:


> I would say turning a blind eye - more than support - but it is a good sign - is it not.


I think the game plan has changed. After failing at every @ CIA double plan, now they've realized, do Pakistan's bidding else no one is getting outta here till 2114......ooooppps sorry 2014....


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## The Deterrent

Irfan Baloch said:


> during the 80s, it was in fact a smart thinking local Shepard who identified a suspicious looking rock that was placed near the road that was used by the vehicles to and from the Khauta plant. he reported that out to the military intelligence and later on that rock was identified to be containing sensors.



Just adding to it, US military have been playing around with these gadgets quite for a while now. A system was discovered in the tribal areas 2 years ago, consisting of a couple of rock-like objects. Day/Night cameras, thermal imagery and very sensitive acoustic sensors were installed in it. The system had a battery life of 6-8 months.

It was being used to assist intelligence gathering for the UCAV attacks. It had the capability to intercept satellite phone transmissions in the vicinity, match it up against the stored voice data of important targets, triangulate the position of the satellite phone and bring in the UCAV. That is how drone strikes have been so frequent and accurate.

The deployed but yet-to-be-seen US military technologies like the Stealth Blackhawks are indeed surprising. One can only imagine what they use to spy on other nations' nuclear assets.

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## Safriz

This is the first time that the attackers were traced all the way to their homes via NADRA database..
I have never heard of another incident when the terrorists had been identified to their home addresses....

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## Jango

Safriz said:


> This is the first time that the attackers were traced all the way to their homes via NADRA database..
> I have never heard of another incident when the terrorists had been identified to their home addresses....



It has happened many times before.

One thing to appreciate, NADRA database has really helped the Pakistani state.

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## Rafi

Swedish engineers on way to Pakistan - to assist in repair of nose of one AWAC damaged in attack.

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## Thorough Pro

AK47's are the nastiest assault rifles ever known. G3 is a field rifle. and don't forget 9 against 1. Attackers were ready, defenders were caught off guard.




Safriz said:


> so a few measly Ak-47 overpowerd G-3

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## MastanKhan

Irfan,

Thank you---thank you that you responded---. There is nothing better than the co-operation of the civilians for security of fixed operations. 

The problems have arisen because this idea has not been marketed very well by the state---I mean to say that this should have been a part and parcel of the wall signs and posters---. People should have been encouraged to take charge of their nation and their destiny---call about suspicioius people / strangers gathering in your area---.

People need a regular dose of nationalism from their defence forces on regular basis---we assume that people will remember to be patriotic----they are---but sometimes they forget and sometimes they are lazy---they just need to be pushed and nudged in the right direction all the time.

If simple issues of security can be addressed right from the gitgo---and their importance conveyed to the ones providing security and to those seeking security---you have a win win situation. 

The buyer needs to know how important basic service is for a car---how important basic maintenance is to the structure of your house---. The buyer in this case is the base management---they are the ones who have to believe in the first place what it is all about and what is at stake---.

There must also be an independent inspector of the base security---. That would have been the first thing that I would have done---have an independant security inspector---to come in and tear apart the the holes and lack of security---if the security met the basic threshold of protection---one warning to the base commander---but if the inspection shows below the base threshold level---immediate termination of the base commander.

The base inspector---the base commanders must have fear of that name---nothing like fear to get your tail up in the air and get you going.

Irfan---these are simple and basic rules of security and security management.

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## Developereo

MastanKhan said:


> All secure areas need to have better relationship with the civilian neighbours---that is the first line of defence against the intruders---. They need to be your friends---they need to be your go to guys---they need to be the frontline----and you need to give them security against the terrorists---and you need to find ways to reward them for their good deeds---you need to get them on your side---you need to make them believe in you---this is all about marketing----marketing yourself is one of the biggest part of security---.
> 
> Bottomline is that either you have marketed yourself better to your neighbours or your enemies have marketed themselves to your neighbours---it would be rather you who needs to win---.
> 
> You need to find ways to have your neighbors contact you in a secure manner---they need to inform you of any new comers in the area---they need to tell you who is doing anything suspicious---. Now think about it---what would something like that cost you---ie the base---some extra sugar---milk---cooking oil---clothing---some other goodies---treat these neighbors right and make them your watchdogs----.
> 
> Now where is nuclear science involved in this---now where do you need a rocket scientist to do this job---this is basics---fundamental of security 101---it is the 1st grade class lesson.



I agree with you, but the marketing job belongs not just to the military, but to the government and media as well. In the West and Israel, the media works *with* the military, and the civilian government accepts its responsibility to bring society on board the WoT to actively work with the security forces against the extremists.

In Pakistan, unfortunately, the wannabe liberal extremists poison the debate with their anti-military agenda, while absolving the civilian establishment of their governance failures. When the local media itself is busy demonizing the military, small wonder that the extremists find half their work done for them.

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## Developereo

MastanKhan said:


> There must also be an independent inspector of the base security---. That would have been the first thing that I would have done---have an independant security inspector---to come in and tear apart the the holes and lack of security---if the security met the basic threshold of protection---one warning to the base commander---but if the inspection shows below the base threshold level---immediate termination of the base commander.



What do you mean by 'independent inspector'? Detail of military base security should remain top-secret within the military itself.


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## KRAIT

Reminds me of shepherds who told IA about insurgency which led to Kargil war. 

Human intelligence is most effective in places where electronic items haven't penetrated too deep. 

Even if you build your bases at secluded place, the nearby villages or towns (even if they are few kilometers away) can serve as operating posts of spies or extremists. 

Anything that seems doubtful to local and trusted people, has to be checked out in such places by security agencies.

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## foxbat

Developereo said:


> What do you mean by 'independent inspector'? Detail of military base security should remain top-secret within the military itself.



I guess he means out side the chain of command of the base commander.. Like an auditor.

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## KRAIT

Developereo said:


> I agree with you, but the marketing job belongs not just to the military, but to the government and media as well. In the West and Israel, the media works *with* the military, and the civilian government accepts its responsibility to bring society on board the WoT to actively work with the security forces against the extremists.
> 
> In Pakistan, unfortunately, the wannabe liberal extremists poison the debate with their anti-military agenda, while absolving the civilian establishment of their governance failures. When the local media itself is busy demonizing the military, small wonder that the extremists find half their work done for them.


I disagree with your media part especially in case of US. They do all the things that Pakistan media do. They hosts talk shows on anti-war debates, coverage to such rallies, expose US military human rights violation and other worst misconducts (see the documentary on rape victim in US armed forces) etc. etc. But they also shows news similar to what Pakistan media do.

But at the same time they paint the picture in different way. Well, its all about TRP as sensationalism sells. Even if US military works with media, well would any channel decline such offer as they will get info that other won't which is good for business.

Even in India, who paints Pakistan as failed and terrorist state, media also reports on other issues too.

Being selective is part of any institution as there is nothing called neutral or unbiased media.

It was media's failure that they couldn't find the loop holes in security system (I know its not a good suggestion but is better than idiotic discussion ). Every now and then, I see articles by newspaper presenting harsh facts about reality and make the govt. to take action, well, atleast they try. atleast in my area.

Any citizen can make a difference if they start boycotting channels which are least concerned about nation and truth and are busy in broadcasting idiotic news.

It will make other channels to learn from it and work for more important issues.

Go on and ask every friend on Facebook to ask your cable operator to not show the channels that are not worthy.

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## MastanKhan

Developereo said:


> What do you mean by 'independent inspector'? Detail of military base security should remain top-secret within the military itself.



Hi,

Independant inspector---is basically from the military----whose job it is just to do inspections---. He / she has all security clearance with the rank of a colonel at the least----he has a crew of majors captains lt's nco soldiers---a complete team that hits at the main gate of the base in the middle of the night or early morning or late evening---or in the heat of the sun---come in and raid the place.

My father used to do that---late night inspections of the hospital he was incharge of---just to see who was awake and who was not and who was working and who was not---.

Have my countrymen forgoten the very basics of efficiency.

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## TaimiKhan

Vinod2070 said:


> Actually the killing of terror leaders has had a significant impact in the terror incidents worldwide.
> 
> Iraq is much better now and in most of the world, terror situation is better.



Iraq is better ?? For whom US soldiers or Iraqi people ?? 

Have you read about the carnage the AQ guys did during holy month of ramzan & eid or not ?? Are you in touch with the constant bombings happening killing dozens each week. 

Iraq is in sheit, the people are dying except the US soldiers, if that you call success, then i have no words to argue with you as its useless to argue.

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## vsdoc

I have to agree with Taimi here Vinod.

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## Developereo

KRAIT said:


> I disagree with your media part especially in case of US. They do all the things that Pakistan media do. They hosts talk shows on anti-war debates, coverage to such rallies, expose US military human rights violation and other worst misconducts (see the documentary on rape victim in US armed forces) etc. etc. But they also shows news similar to what Pakistan media do.
> 
> But at the same time they paint the picture in different way. Well, its all about TRP as sensationalism sells. Even if US military works with media, well would any channel decline such offer as they will get info that other won't which is good for business.



Your characterization of American media is out of date. In the Vietnam era, they were critical of the military but, since then, especially against the evil Ay-rabs and Mooslims, the US media is one of the biggest cheerleaders of the military and drum beaters of death and destruction.

Media 'criticism' of US military nowadays is always intended to uphold the military's prestige by portraying any bad conduct as an aberration by 'rogue' elements that must not be generalized to the US military as a whole. Even the mass murderers from Afghanistan and Iraq are portrayed as victims of long deployments, and other psychological trauma.



KRAIT said:


> Even in India, who paints Pakistan as failed and terrorist state, media also reports on other issues too.
> 
> Being selective is part of any institution as there is nothing called neutral or unbiased media.
> 
> It was media's failure that they couldn't find the loop holes in security system (I know its not a good suggestion but is better than idiotic discussion ). Every now and then, I see articles by newspaper presenting harsh facts about reality and make the govt. to take action, well, atleast they try. atleast in my area.
> 
> Any citizen can make a difference if they start boycotting channels which are least concerned about nation and truth and are busy in broadcasting idiotic news.
> 
> It will make other channels to learn from it and work for more important issues.
> 
> Go on and ask every friend on Facebook to ask your cable operator to not show the channels that are not worthy.



Do you know how many millions the US government spends on global propaganda? Many media outlets around the world are backed by deep pockets that don't care about profits, and are only intended to further specific propaganda.

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## BATMAN

Dear, Blain & Irfan Baloch,
Only base commander is to be blamed for the kind of slackness we've witnessed.
There is no justification of 9 terrorists crossing into a 9' wall.

Believe it or not, perpetrators couldn't have come close to the wall until the area and security was thoroughly spied for years.

If AWACS are still around than its a simple, blessing.

I also read along, that base commander is facing the consequences but at the same time... we as a nation are still in disbelief that cold war is warming up.
Zardari him self is a product of cold war! and memo gate was a proof of it.

Where as, sense of national pride is concerned... yes it has been shattered but because the whole world knows its child's play to build a secure perimeter... irrespective if it was an AWACS parking, or a horse stable.

I know for sure how to do it... but manning main gate (post attack) with technicians... shows frustrations.

BTW, you can't save AWACS or building from distant rockets.. no matter what security measures you take.
Therefore, please, tell me the wisdom in keeping AWACS in Kamra and Orions in Karachi?

These assets shall be kept never on ground, as long we are in state of war.

We as a nation have to decide if national security is more important or democrazy!

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## BATMAN

vsdoc said:


> I have to agree with Taimi here Vinod.



Well... I actually would agree with Vnod here more than TK.. sorry.

According to international threat alerts ... it is Pakistan on top, irrespective of ground reality.

It is allowed for foreigners to visit Iraq and Afghanistan but Pakistan.

There are more international airlines flying into Afghanistan and Iraq than Pakistan... a fact!

I'm not debating here but telling you state of affairs.

Trust me, Indians are doing business in Iraq, and they know it first hand and so do i.

Anyway, Bringing Iraq into the discussion was a troll bait... lets drop it here.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Where are snipers and dragnov ?? They should hold area from towers and kill militant miles away.
Very pathetic strategy by PAF. 
And Resident area near airbase

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## KRAIT

Developereo said:


> Your characterization of American media is out of date. In the Vietnam era, they were critical of the military but, since then, especially against the evil Ay-rabs and Mooslims, the US media is one of the biggest cheerleaders of the military and drum beaters of death and destruction.
> 
> Media 'criticism' of US military nowadays is always intended to uphold the military's prestige by portraying any bad conduct as an aberration by 'rogue' elements that must not be generalized to the US military as a whole. Even the mass murderers from Afghanistan and Iraq are portrayed as victims of long deployments, and other psychological trauma.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know how many millions the US government spends on global propaganda? Many media outlets around the world are backed by deep pockets that don't care about profits, and are only intended to further specific propaganda.


I think this might be off-topic but want to point out new aspects one should think about:-

1. Prime Minister of UK asked Zuckerberg to use Facebook as a platform to know what UK people think of particular policy of his.

2. Anti-corruption drive in India spread due to social media.

3. Various people post about the ground conditions, which are subjected to authenticity before reaching a conclusion, about various evensts happening in Syria, Arab nations etc.

and list goes on....

Point is what you are talking about governmental propaganda is talk of early 2000s and before that, where social media based on social networking sites didn't matter a lot.

*I would now like to present two topic which you should look into - Information dissemination in social networks and Opinion formation in Social Networks. Now comes the psychometric functions too, which are quite useful to understand decision making of an individual.*

These aspects are being studied extensively and is used by Multi-national companies and Intelligence agencies like CIA which honoured Zuckerberg for providing world's largest database of over 500 million people with their pictures, basic info etc.

*Now look at PDF, most of the people came to knew about this attack through PDF (I am among these people) and many members accepted the possible reasons and motives of this attack based on opinions of senior members like you.*

My point is, the media controlled by government is now taken over by social media which is constructive as well as destructive (Rumor based recent riots in India). 

People in India (not including case of Pakistan) now gets more information through Facebook, Twitter etc. and believes it more than our media channels. This has also caused to check the effect of social media by the government. That's why no matter how much money you give to news channel, people now have alternative channel of information.

Many politicians especially people like Narendra Modi, are using twitter to inform public about work done by his government which has resulted his popularity especially among middle class of India. He doesn't have to buy any news channel to propagate his views and future plans. This will pay off in coming elections.

Posting few doctored pictures of Rohingyans on social networking sites has caused ripples all around Asia and I may say to the world, caused riots in India, discussion in Arab countries and growing opposition among people of other nations. I mean one person who sat on his computer and morphed few images caused such a great effect, look at the power now any individual can use. Government can control media but not every individual.

My point is social media like PDF is now becoming a trusted source of information and making people to look at other side of the coin which was hindered by the govt. through buying media channels.

Now anti-war feeling is emerging in US due to the crowd that sees ground reality through people they are connected with via social networking sites, who post the pictures etc. which has also made society more vulnerable to rumors and violence.

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## MastanKhan

Krait,

Thank you very much for the informative post---.

The europeans consider Barack Obama's campaign of 4 years ago as a highly successful marketing campaign---as a matter of fact large businesses study the tactics and techniques used in that campaign.

Similiary---during the campaign against Musharraf 4 + years ago about the removal of chief justice---killing of akbar Bugti---raid on red mosque---PPPP used similiar sales and marketing tactics and techniques---which was very obvious to me---and I also wrote about it on this board---jang.com---pakisanlink---dawn.com did not consider it worth it to publish it.

The problem is that with the illeterates---or less knowledgeable people---if they not know it---for them it means that it does not exist---this has been the standard mindset of t he pakistani---literate and illeterate---I mean to say---look at the members on this baord---every one of them is literate---some senior members and senior mods--very literate---but if it goes against their belief and what they have heard---it does not exist.

For american media---it is all about nationalism---it is america first---. When it comes to america---truth honesty honor integroty---all be damned---. The millitary requested the media not to show the dead soldier bodies coming off air craft---they stopped showing it---they stopped any negative news about the u s millitary----.

There is not a single analyst who can go on the tv and speak the truth about the failures of the u s military in iraq and afg---either out of fear of retaliation or out of necessary nationalism---.



BATMAN said:


> Dear, Blain & Irfan Baloch,
> Only base commander is to be blamed for the kind of slackness we've witnessed.
> There is no justification of 9 terrorists crossing into a 9' wall.
> 
> Believe it or not, perpetrators couldn't have come close to the wall until the area and security was thoroughly spied for years.
> 
> If AWACS are still around than its a simple, blessing.
> 
> I also read along, that base commander is facing the consequences but at the same time... we as a nation are still in disbelief that cold war is warming up.
> Zardari him self is a product of cold war! and memo gate was a proof of it.
> 
> Where as, sense of national pride is concerned... yes it has been shattered but because the whole world knows its child's play to build a secure perimeter... irrespective if it was an AWACS parking, or a horse stable.
> 
> I know for sure how to do it... but manning main gate (post attack) with technicians... shows frustrations.
> 
> BTW, you can't save AWACS or building from distant rockets.. no matter what security measures you take.
> Therefore, please, tell me the wisdom in keeping AWACS in Kamra and Orions in Karachi?
> 
> These assets shall be kept never on ground, as long we are in state of war.
> 
> We as a nation have to decide if national security is more important or democrazy!



You are so correct in what you stated and our superstar Blain2 as always has a sob story for the management----. If the captain of a sea faring vessel takes the fall as does the captain of an airplane then why do people like Blain2 come up with excuses to support the incompetent base commanders---.

Is there a personal interest vested over here---or as I have stated many a times before---the guy is clueless about strategic warfare and pro-active approach towards security of fixed assets.

The base commander needs to face the court martial and a firing squad---this man and the one at karachi---set them up in fornt of he firing squad and then see how these generals suddenly have found newfound energy and resource to protect the assets---.

Hang the top three---rest will get in line automatically---.



Peaceful Civlian said:


> Where are snipers and dragnov ?? They should hold area from towers and kill militant miles away.
> Very pathetic strategy by PAF.
> And Resident area near airbase




Wallah,
Fascinating isn't it---some one go tell Blain2 about it---even an average joe---the peaceful civilian knows about it as well---he also knows what it takes to have security---.

Blain2---don't you feel embarrassed and ashamed even to be on this board and have that title and post your lame excuses---I mean to say---every man has to have some character and dignity---where is yours---you have always been a failure at what you have assessed regarding the defencive and offencive capabilities of pak millitary---there has to be a point where you say---enough is enough---I cannot shame myself any more than that..

All you have posted in defence of these two base commanders is absolutely pathetic and disgusting----these men were and are incharge of billions opf dollars of assets of the milliatry---destruction of those assets has been totally embarrassing and humiliating as well as degrading for the millitry---and you have come out non-challantly for their defence---.

These two men need to be executed alongwith their 2Ic's----.

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## Developereo

KRAIT said:


> social media.



My earlier comment was entirely about the mainstream media (MSM), but you raise some good points...

I believe that traditional, mainstream media still holds the trump cards, because the internet is not self-sustaining: the reputation of social media sites depends on the MSM. If the MSM portrays a particular social media (or any) website as a hornet's nest of loonies and conspiracy nuts, that particular site will die. There are other ways to destroy the reputation of web sites.

To follow up on a couple of your examples, Modi can say all he wants, and a certain segment of the population will follow and believe him unconditionally. But that won't last. Eventually, the honeymoon will wear off and people will want independent verification and analysis of his claims by *objective, informed* experts. Certainly, the experts will themselves be questioned or doubted, but it will be an exchange of analyses by people with some verified credentials, instead of random, anonymous posters.

Allow me to repeat a quote I recently posted in another thread:



> &#8220;We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.&#8221; &#8213; Robert Wilensky



The internet is still regarded as the "wonderland" where nothing is what it seems, and buyer must beware at all times.

Secondly, governments can and do exercise censorship onto social media -- much more so than they dare do to the MSM. The case of the doctored pictures of Rohingyas is an example. The GoI was quick to lambast that propaganda and clamp down on it, but it was a selective censorship. Did the GoI stop the wild claims of millions of "illegal Bangladeshis" flooding India, which was the initial catalyst that has caused a lot of bloodshed over the decades? Where does the selective censorship start and end? And whose agenda gets priority over others?

Given that all the social media sites are based in the US, they are subject to US government bias. Organizations that are deemed hostile to US interests (and marked as terrorist or otherwise _persona non grata_) will be blocked by US-based social media companies, while others will flourish. In other words, the US government has become the arbiter of what constitutes free speech around the world.

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## KRAIT

Developereo said:


> Given that all the social media sites are based in the US, they are subject to US government bias. Organizations that are deemed hostile to US interests (and marked as terrorist or otherwise _persona non grata_) will be blocked by US-based social media companies, while others will flourish. In other words, the US government has become the arbiter of what constitutes free speech around the world........


Well your explanation about social media and decay of information is quite right. I agree that any opinion that is formed through social media decays faster than opinion based on Mainstream media. Many people don't even watch MSM programs but are online most of the time using Facebook or Twitter.

Demographically, people who are intelligent enough to see the reasons behind events occurring around them are more inclined to MSM rather than social media. I am not saying they don't believe on information from Word Of Mouth (WOM) communication through websites , but they certainly like to make their own judgment based on all the information they gather from all sources. 

But in majority of populace like in our country, the majority people who don't have internet connection, their opinion is based on newspaper and news channel. Word of Mouth communication between people (physical conversation) is also important. But there emerges a new phenomenon called *SOCIAL INFLUENCE.* (we left WoM through social media)

*Social influence is the pressure that an individual experiences as people around him/her follows certain ideology. Even if these people don't believe in MSM or not have conversation with the followers of certain ideology, this pressure makes them accept the trending notion. *

*It is also called HERD BEHAVIOR. These people give more weight to other peoples' decision rather than their own. *

So when we talk about MSM, WoM and Social Influence, even if small population gets affected by MSM by govt. or other ideas propagating on Internet, *WOM and Social influence* takes over the role of Internet based social media. 

Now considering Critical number of population who adopted certain idea presented by the experts etc. on MSM. It leads to emergence of followers of these experts and learned people and *IF* this population becomes this Critical population ( which believing in MSM and these experts), the Anonymous forums on internet and their followers faces tough challenge to change peoples' opinion. 

The competition emerges among the MSM and Social media, where initial number of followers matters a lot coz, *WoM of Social media is stronger than that of MSM but the decay rate of Social Media is way higher than MSM.* (Look at Competition Model of Products from two or more Companies)


In case of GoI, GoI failed to use or control the social media in initial stage which created a critical mass or critical number of population. Once you have this critical number of people against any decision, things are out of control even from Govts. 

That's why GoI wants more control on social media. And they use the same thing against "illegal Bangladeshians". It is just like product placement by companies similar to what Mastan sir said. For future, GoI will make more stringent policies.

The keywords that should be looked into for more details are :
*External influences like news channel, advertisement etc.
Internal Influences like Word of Mouth (WoM) and Social Influences.
Critical Population
Time taken to reach the Critical population
*

Now these Internal Influences, whether it is digital or physical, plays the major role in success of any ideology (especially after Critical Number) and hence affects the Govt. steps that follows . 

This attack and Mehran attack, has resulted in people who are now more concerned about the security structure within Pakistan rather than other issues like Kashmir etc. Since the drone strikes, OBL raid and TTP raids and attacks, people now want action to be taken for their security. What I see is any action by Pakistan Army even on its own people to get rid of extremists will be backed by majority of Pakistanis and this support will come too fast which save the time for implementation of such decisions, which is crucial for stability of already peaceful regions.

P.S. I apologize if this post in confusing, if people have any doubt or criticism, kindly share.

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## Developereo

KRAIT said:


> That's why GoI wants more control on social media. [...] For future, GoI will make more stringent policies.



I agree with what you wrote, but just wanted to highlight the above portion. Social media is on the govt's radar already.

In any case, I think social media is an over-hyped passing fad. Ten years from now, Facebook and Twitter will be gone. Facebook is like a candy store for criminals; information put on the net WILL be stolen by hackers; it's only a matter of time and Facebook is only a few high-profile lawsuits away from bankruptcy.

Anyway, back to the discussion...

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## khanasifm

So what is the final outcome, 4 AWACS plus 1 transport a/c fleet of SAAB 2k, 1 destroyed, 1 partially destroyed but repairable , so right now 2 AWAC and 1 transport are av. Correct???? Finally fleet will be 3 +1


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## Safriz

khanasifm said:


> So what is the final outcome, 4 AWACS plus 1 transport a/c fleet of SAAB 2k, 1 destroyed, 1 partially destroyed but repairable , so right now 2 AWAC and 1 transport are av. Correct???? Finally fleet will be 3 +1


 
No confirmed reports yet...
The PAF statement memtioned one damaged aircraft...no word on the type..
Rumor says many things,and you are quoting rumors...


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## blain2

foxbat said:


> I guess he means out side the chain of command of the base commander.. Like an auditor.



I wonder what the IG AF does to earn his pay!


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## blain2

MastanKhan said:


> Krait,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are so correct in what you stated and our superstar Blain2 as always has a sob story for the management----. If the captain of a sea faring vessel takes the fall as does the captain of an airplane then why do people like Blain2 come up with excuses to support the incompetent base commanders---.
> 
> Is there a personal interest vested over here---or as I have stated many a times before---the guy is clueless about strategic warfare and pro-active approach towards security of fixed assets.
> 
> The base commander needs to face the court martial and a firing squad---this man and the one at karachi---set them up in fornt of he firing squad and then see how these generals suddenly have found newfound energy and resource to protect the assets---.
> 
> Hang the top three---rest will get in line automatically---.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wallah,
> Fascinating isn't it---some one go tell Blain2 about it---even an average joe---the peaceful civilian knows about it as well---he also knows what it takes to have security---.
> 
> Blain2---don't you feel embarrassed and ashamed even to be on this board and have that title and post your lame excuses---I mean to say---every man has to have some character and dignity---where is yours---you have always been a failure at what you have assessed regarding the defencive and offencive capabilities of pak millitary---there has to be a point where you say---enough is enough---I cannot shame myself any more than that..
> 
> All you have posted in defence of these two base commanders is absolutely pathetic and disgusting----these men were and are incharge of billions opf dollars of assets of the milliatry---destruction of those assets has been totally embarrassing and humiliating as well as degrading for the millitry---and you have come out non-challantly for their defence---.
> 
> These two men need to be executed alongwith their 2Ic's----.



Mastan, 

If you think I am going to be baited by your immature and silly personal posts, think again. Get over yourself and get off your high horse for a change. I know you have a fan base here that looks forward to reading your high and mighty pronouncements, regardless of how factually incorrect they may be, I am not bothered in the least bit. So carry on carrying on. I am sure we have not had a thinker of your caliber in ages. Just back off the personal comments. As a senior member, one would hope you would exercise better judgement with regards to such things.

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## Safriz

Attrition: Taliban Anti-Aircraft Troops Score Another Hit


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## baqai

been through the whole thread and all i can say it's very easy to criticize others at the comfort of your room in front of a computer posting on a WEB FORUM but what you might and might not have done in place of that commander at that spur of time is anyone's guess.

you want my honest opinion, that commander was in trouble right at the second the base was attacked, he could had sit on his *** and waited it out or he could had tried to minimize the damage done by any possible way, which he had. Maybe that guy did not had fool proof security but than again there is no such thing as a fool proof security, what matters now is that he and his team managed to stop a situation which we could easily had escalated into a bigger disaster so give that guy some slack for that "small" achievement?

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## Vinod2070

TaimiKhan said:


> Iraq is better ?? For whom US soldiers or Iraqi people ??



I meant Iraqi people.



> Have you read about the carnage the AQ guys did during holy month of ramzan & eid or not ?? Are you in touch with the constant bombings happening killing dozens each week.



Not tracking it particularly closely but yes, I don't see the daily reports of the sectarian carnage in hundreds that used to fill the papers every day. I guess that is improvement.



> Iraq is in sheit, the people are dying except the US soldiers, if that you call success, then i have no words to argue with you as its useless to argue.


 
If one goes by the media, there are more people dying in Syria today than Iraq.

Before that it was Baharain and Libya.

See, whether you argue with me or not doesn't make any difference. Not to me and not to you. All we should care for is being factual.


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## MastanKhan

baqai said:


> been through the whole thread and all i can say it's very easy to criticize others at the comfort of your room in front of a computer posting on a WEB FORUM but what you might and might not have done in place of that commander at that spur of time is anyone's guess.
> 
> you want my honest opinion, that commander was in trouble right at the second the base was attacked, he could had sit on his *** and waited it out or he could had tried to minimize the damage done by any possible way, which he had. Maybe that guy did not had fool proof security but than again there is no such thing as a fool proof security, what matters now is that he and his team managed to stop a situation which we could easily had escalated into a bigger disaster so give that guy some slack for that "small" achievement?



Hi,

Young pakistanis---always selling themselves short---always trying to find ways to broom embarrassing situations under the rug. It does not work that way---either give up pakistan to its fate or raise your expectations and ask for more.

Other than that---you have a very poor opinion---at your stage of interest---I would that you rather listen and learn from the opinions of those who want to raise the standards. It was the job of that guy to have fool proof security---he has the most expensive assets of the nation at his disposal and under his command---.

How lowly a citizen of a nation has to be who cannot fully condemn a man who was given the safekeeping of the most valuable asset in the nation and when that man failed due to sheer incompetence and ignorance---others came running to justify his actions.

With a mindset like that---how can you kids grow up to build a nation---. When the very basics of your thinking is faulty---how is it possible to dwell onto getting positive results out of it.

Blain2,

You are mistaken---I am not trying to bait you---. I never bait anyone---. What I have asked you to do is to admit that you are wrong in your assessment and analogy---. Share with me what is factually incorrect and I will offer my apology---and will want to learn from my mistake---I ain't no saint---.


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## vsdoc

BATMAN said:


> Well... I actually would agree with Vnod here more than TK.. sorry.
> 
> According to international threat alerts ... it is Pakistan on top, irrespective of ground reality.
> 
> It is allowed for foreigners to visit Iraq and Afghanistan but Pakistan.
> 
> There are more international airlines flying into Afghanistan and Iraq than Pakistan... a fact!
> 
> I'm not debating here but telling you state of affairs.
> 
> Trust me, Indians are doing business in Iraq, and they know it first hand and so do i.
> 
> Anyway, Bringing Iraq into the discussion was a troll bait... lets drop it here.



All of what you say may be true.

Yet every Iraqi would take what Pakistan has today versus what he or she went through to get to where they are today.

They are no better today than what they were 10 years ago.

Doing business is not the point. I do business with Iraq (and Iran) too. The entire world did business with us as well when we were under British rule.

If WMD and regime change was the excuse, then what the hell was the US doing there 10 years on.
?

Please, do not ever wish on your nation and your people what Iraq and Iraqis had to endure.

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## clmeta

Mumbai attack. Remember the Pakistani media traced Ajmal Kasab's home in Pakistan.


Safriz said:


> This is the first time that the attackers were traced all the way to their homes via NADRA database..
> I have never heard of another incident when the terrorists had been identified to their home addresses....


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## Windjammer

clmeta said:


> Mumbai attack. Remember the Pakistani media traced Ajmal Kasab's home in Pakistan.



There is a difference between a person alive and kicking and one who has been sent to oblivion.


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## baqai

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> Other than that---you have a very poor opinion---at your stage of interest---I would that you rather listen and learn from the opinions of those who want to raise the standards.



Well who gets to decide who has a poor opinion? Last i check i had the right of forming my own opinion and i was taught to respect opinions of others. In case of difference of opinion one should hear and offer counter arguments without being rude. 



MastanKhan said:


> How lowly a citizen of a nation has to be who cannot fully condemn a man who was given the safekeeping of the most valuable asset in the nation and when that man failed due to sheer incompetence and ignorance---others came running to justify his actions.



Maybe you missed where i pointed out that Commander was in trouble right at the second the base was attacked. Neither i recall mentioning anything in lines of giving him a medal. It was his responsibility and he failed it in a way but what we have to keep in mind that he also succeeded in failing the plans of the attackers (assumption based on the ammunition they had and what they had managed to do at Mehran). I merely said that it's easy for us living room warriors to accuse someone at the comfort of our room. You seriously disagree with my statement?



MastanKhan said:


> With a mindset like that---how can you kids grow up to build a nation---. When the very basics of your thinking is faulty---how is it possible to dwell onto getting positive results out of it.



Thank you for making me feel younger, I am a father of two nearing my 40's. I am sure i will still end up calling you uncle but none the less thank you for making me feel young again.


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## vsdoc

baqai said:


> Thank you for making me feel younger, I am a father of two nearing my 40's. I am sure i will still end up calling you uncle but none the less thank you for making me feel young again.



40 is young man.

And all serious action starts after 40.

Maybe we could swap notes .....

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## Safriz

Kamra attack foiled... By owais
28 August, 2012 


After an intense gun battle lasting for two hours, security personnel of the Pakistan Army and PAF successfully thwarted the terrorist attack on PAF Minhas Air Base in Kamra. Although it was an unexpected attack in the early hours of the morning, yet the security forces managed to overcome terrorists' malicious attempt and eliminated all nine terrorists while protecting the base from any devastation.

Through this attack, terrorists attempted to portray security forces as incapable of defending the country's sensitive security installations and thus invite international criticism in this regard. However, the defenders of the country effectively delivered their counter-terrorism capability once again. Terrorists unashamedly exploited the night of the 27th of Ramadan, one of the most sacred nights for Muslims, thinking the majority of the soldiers would be devoted to worship and would fail to pose them any resistance.

Nevertheless, the well-timed and appropriate counter-action by the security forces speaks volume about the extent of their vigilance and dauntless courage against militants and shows their commitment towards their national obligation. Security forces' endeavour against the terrorist attack at Kamra airbase merits appreciation and encouragement from every segment of the Pakistani society.

MUHAMMAD OWAIS Rawalpindi

Kamra attack foiled... By owais - PakTribune


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## Donatello

Safriz said:


> Kamra attack foiled... By owais
> 28 August, 2012
> 
> 
> After an intense gun battle lasting for two hours, security personnel of the Pakistan Army and PAF successfully thwarted the terrorist attack on PAF Minhas Air Base in Kamra. *Although it was an unexpected attack* in the early hours of the morning, yet the security forces managed to overcome terrorists' malicious attempt and eliminated all nine terrorists while protecting the base from any devastation.
> 
> Through this attack, terrorists attempted to portray security forces as incapable of defending the country's sensitive security installations and thus invite international criticism in this regard. However, the defenders of the country effectively delivered their counter-terrorism capability once again. Terrorists unashamedly exploited the night of the 27th of Ramadan, one of the most sacred nights for Muslims, thinking the majority of the soldiers would be devoted to worship and would fail to pose them any resistance.
> 
> Nevertheless, the well-timed and appropriate counter-action by the security forces speaks volume about the extent of their vigilance and dauntless courage against militants and shows their commitment towards their national obligation. Security forces' endeavour against the terrorist attack at Kamra airbase merits appreciation and encouragement from every segment of the Pakistani society.
> 
> MUHAMMAD OWAIS Rawalpindi
> 
> Kamra attack foiled... By owais - PakTribune




Unexpected attack? What kind of bull$hit is that?

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## Capt.Popeye

Donatello said:


> Unexpected attack? What kind of bull$hit is that?



Seems confusing-this 'unexpected attack' bit. Is he talking about the last one or the next one? Because the last one was preceded by an alert.


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## kink

I read it on another forum:


> Yes somebody who works at the airbase has confirmed, two saab 2000 got hit, one is lost beyond repair.


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## Saifullah Sani




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## umair86

kink said:


> I read it on another forum:


Only one got hit and its deemed repairable


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## Safriz

no official word on the fate of strategic assets on kamra base...thats pethatic..
No wonder people are losing faith in Pakistan armed forces.

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## Capt.Popeye

Safriz said:


> no official word on the fate of strategic assets on kamra base...thats pethatic..
> No wonder people are losing faith in Pakistan armed forces.



About the underlined part.... its not unusual, both the real circumstances and the consequences of the Kamra attack are such as to not permit a full disclosure to occur.


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## Last Hope

Safriz said:


> no official word on the fate of strategic assets on kamra base...thats pethatic..
> No wonder people are losing faith in Pakistan armed forces.



Well. You seriously expect Armed Forces to counter such false allegations? We just give such statements a huge facepalm. It's just like asking, if soldiers are allowed to have a gun with them in army or not.

And well, just for your information, the US defense secretary visited Kamra and he latter said that it was no Nuke base an d Pak's Nukes are completely safe.


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## Safriz

Last Hope said:


> Well. You seriously expect Armed Forces to counter such false allegations? We just give such statements a huge facepalm. It's just like asking, if soldiers are allowed to have a gun with them in army or not.
> 
> And well, just for your information, the US defense secretary visited Kamra and he latter said that it was no Nuke base an d Pak's Nukes are completely safe.


i was on about the awacs..not nukes


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## Bratva

Last Hope said:


> Well. You seriously expect Armed Forces to counter such false allegations? We just give such statements a huge facepalm. It's just like asking, if soldiers are allowed to have a gun with them in army or not.
> 
> *And well, just for your information, the US defense secretary visited Kamra and he latter said that it was no Nuke base an d Pak's Nukes are completely safe*.



Read your bold line and read your first line again. Irony is Kamra base is a nuke base allegation was started by some american "citizen" so a US defense secretary visit was sanctioned to calm things down, why armed forces statment that Kamra is not a nuke base was not enough for Americans?????? and when Pakistani "Citizens" alleges something, they are given a reply which is given in your first paragraph.

Are "WE" Pakistani Citizens are second class citizens monsieur?


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## Safriz

RAWs footprints By: Khurshid Anwer Mirza | September 01, 2012 | 18 In the recent attack on PAFs Kamra Airbase, the militants obvious
target was the AWAC (Airborne warning and control) aircraft. The PAF
had recently acquired three from Sweden. These aircrafts are
expensive, very sophisticated and highly effective for air surveillance,
looking deep into the enemys territory and for guiding own fighters
onto their targets even below the ground-based radars coverage. These aircrafts are force multipliers and, therefore, very potent.
We may also recall the attack on Pak navys Mehran Base at Karachi
conducted not so very long ago. The attackers ignored the aircraft
parked at the adjacent PAF base as well as those based on its naval
side - their targets were the two Orion naval surveillance aircraft
acquired from the US. These aircrafts, too, are highly effective in detecting and destroying hostile submarines as well as surface ships 
by day, night and in all weather conditions.
Considering that neither the air force AWACs, nor the navys Orions
had any part to play in the anti-terrorist operations, why were these
aircrafts singled out as targets? Did the TTP-hired guns have any
gumption about the various types of aircraft and their functions? Obviously, not! They were merely following the instructions of their
paymasters.
Let us shift our gaze to what was happening in Balochistan. Apart from
daily killings and kidnappings, the militants had been targeting
income-generating facilities, like the railways, sui gas installations,
electricity pylons, etc, besides spreading sectarian violence. They had also been targeting the Chinese, who were helping us in various
development projects in Balochistan and elsewhere. Here again, the
systematic choice of targets - economic, sectarian, etc - provided clue
to the real planners and perpetrators while the militants were merely
the cats paw.
Move back further in time to Lahore and recall the attack on Sri Lankas cricket team. Pray what had the Sri Lankans to do with the Taliban or
Nifaz-e-Sharia? None, of course! The aim was to bring a bad name to
Pakistan and to isolate it from international cricket. Surely, that was
not the objective of the Taliban!
Thus, the spectrum of violence from economic targets to attack on
sensitive military installations, especially their high value assets, to sectarian killings and attack/abduction of foreigners, clearly indicated
method to the madness - much beyond the ken of Taliban. The
objectives of those well planned attacks were wide and varied: to
destabilise the country, to undermine its economy, to isolate it from its
friends, to denigrate Pakistans image internationally, to degrade its
defence capability, to sow the seeds of hatred among the people. Above all, to show that if Pakistan cannot effectively defend its
sensitive defence installations and control the widespread militancy
and the lawlessness, how could it defend its nuclear assets!
It should be obvious that all those well thought out attacks could not
be the work of simple, gun trotting Taliban. Who could be supporting
them with the necessary funds, intelligence and planning? By the mere process of elimination of the countries that could be
behind such terrorist activities in this region, the finger clearly points
towards India with which Pakistan has fought several major and minor
wars since independence. To be specific, Indias notorious agency, RAW,
(the architect of Bangladesh) having established itself in Afghanistan
(thanks to Musharraf) is playing merry - hell with Pakistan - of course with the support of the Afghan government and Mossad.
Interior Minister Rehman Malik, and other high officials before him, had
time and again accused the RAW for the ills going on in Pakistan. Even
international observers like Christine Fair after her visit to Afghanistan
had categorically stated that the Indian Consulates established there
were involved in subversive activities against Pakistan. In fact, they had confided in her that they were pumping money into Balochistan.
However, the Indian Interior Minister had claimed that there was not
a shred of evidence about Indias involvement!
Perhaps, his confident utterance was not entirely misplaced. For RAWs
strategy was highly secretive - based on four Ms.
M for man: To select a rebellious leader like Mujibur Rehman (East Pakistan), Brahamdagh Khan Bugti (Balochistan), Hakeemullah Mehsud
(Fata), Malvi Fazlullah (Swat), and Maulana Azam (late).To provide the
top men with funds, intelligence and weaponry, but let them deal with
their hired goous while RAW stayed in the background. So even when
some militants were captured no one would be the wiser.
M for mission: The chosen leader must have a mission that should be propagated, as the aspiration of the majority. Like the demand for
Bangladesh, Azad Balochistan, Nifaz-e-Sharia, etc.
M for militancy: To achieve the selected mission, they must resort to
militancy based on the local mercenaries  under the banner of
appealing names like Mukti Bahini, BLA, TTP, etc.
M for money and munitions: The militants must be supported with money and sophisticated weaponry.
How do we effectively counter RAWs sinister aims?
First and foremost, the government and the armed forces must
acknowledge the fact that a covert war had been unleashed against
Pakistan to destabilise and, if possible, disintegrate Pakistan. What
Pakistan was facing was not the run-of-the-mill militancy, but a full- fledged guerrilla warfare, totally beyond the capacity of the police and
the civil armed forces. We must realise that after our attaining nuclear
capability, the only option left for India was to destabilise Pakistan
through covert operations - as open war would invite a nuclear
response.
The armed forces must take charge before it is too late to coordinate the internal security of the country against the covert war, which was
slowly eating into the vitals of the country. Additionally, we must set
up an anti-RAW agency by pooling experienced personnel from
various spy agencies. Its sole purpose should be to focus entirely on
RAWs machinations, to anticipate and to forestall them. And if push
comes to a shove to give RAW a taste of its own medicine. We must realise that we are in a state of war and, therefore, the peace time
procedures and lackadaisical approach would only spell disaster.
In the end, a word for our peaceniks. By all means pursue your dream
of Aman ki Asha  indeed, any sensible person would want the two
countries with their teeming millions living below the poverty line to
be on friendly terms and not waste their limited resources in war mongering. Unfortunately, it will forever remain just an Asha, if the
Indians do not change their mindset of Atoot Ang vis-à-vis Kashmir
and Akhund Bharat vis-à-vis Pakistan.
It is very rightly said that actions speak louder than words. Pogrom at
independence; the forcible occupation of the Muslim majority state of
Kashmir; the Rann of Kutch battle; the 1965 war (India was the first to cross international border unannounced); the 1971 war thrust upon us
without any provocation as such (to create Bangladesh); the
occupation of Siachen; the building dams on three western rivers in
stark violation of the Indus Waters Treaty while helping Afghanistan
to build a dams on Kabul River (all with terrible economic
consequences for Pakistan) and now this covert war. Need one say more?
The writer is a retired air
chief marshal.
Email:
marshalmm@gmail.com This news was published in print paper. Access complete paper of this

RAW

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## danger007

Yesterday i read that US special forces behind the attacks... now it's RAW


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## Vinod2070

danger007 said:


> Yesterday i read that US special forces behind the attacks... now it's RAW



What is the common theme behind these?

It can't be Muslims. Muslims can't kill Muslims.

It must be them cursed infidels, the worst of the creation!


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## Safriz

^^^ or somebody who is afraid on Pakistan's 'air defence'.
Taliban would be afraid of 'air offence' not defence.


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## Roybot

danger007 said:


> Yesterday i read that US special forces behind the attacks... now it's RAW



Wait for the next one, will definitely blame Mossad. And shazaam we ll have the notorious RAW-CIA-Mossad trifecta.

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## Safriz

^^^ No i cannot speak to taliban only CNN,FOX,Al Jazeerah can...
They are always in contact with al.qaeeda high rachy and yet US spent,decades looking for them.
On topic.....no P.3 orion or erieye doesnt have 'look in the mountains for a yaboo' mode..
Specially p.3 orion is maritime surveilance,and taliban dont operate in the sea.


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## Windjammer

danger007 said:


> Yesterday i read that US special forces behind the attacks... now it's RAW



These are not official statements, media the world over conduct their own analysts and observations, still credit goes to Pakistan's media and intelligence agencies for maintaining some sanity, for we are well aware of the competency in our surroundings. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/179582-raw-gets-egg-face.html

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## Bratva

WTH it means?



> According to an intelligence report, the terrorists, in collaboration with NDS, have planned attacks on the Allama Iqbal International Airport and Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Base in Lahore, and the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad using explosives-laden trucks.
> 
> *Another report revealed two terrorists who survived the Kamra incident are currently in Lahore with suicide jackets as well. *
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-bankrolling-terror-report.html#ixzz25KfvQJeU


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## Capt.Popeye

Roybot said:


> Wait for the next one, will definitely blame Mossad. And shazaam we ll have the notorious RAW-CIA-Mossad trifecta.



That is likely also. Does not need too much "intelligence" to conjure up scenarios like that. 
Otherwise the silence on the Kamra episode is deafening.


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## Bratva

Today newspapers quoting, One SAAB aircraft got destroyed and two partially damaged










LAHORE: 
Closed-circuit television footage of last months deadly attack on the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base at Kamra allegedly shows that the attackers did not face much resistance from PAF personnel at the base.In a bid to escape heavy firing from militants, security personnel took shelter in a room. Evidence gleaned from the footage indicates that the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) militants had contacts with security personnel at the base. Footage from a second surveillance camera allegedly discloses the attackers having a meeting around a table after their assault on the base. *The assault led to a reconnaissance aircraft being destroyed, while two others were partially damaged. The two footages are approximately nine and five minutes long.
*
Sources said the tactics employed by the soldier who lost his life while fighting off the attackers and a colonel led to defeating them. The colonel not only saved the life of the base commander, but also killed four of the militants.
Sources said the evidence collected by the PAF officials heading the inquiry suggested that some security personnel who had possible involvement in the attack would be court-martialed.

Published in The Express Tribune, September 5th, 2012.


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## aanshu001

so as some members were claiming on the day of attack, " one plane destroyed and two damaged" seems highly possible. Why PAF is not showing all planes together to clear any doubts.


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## Capt.Popeye

aanshu001 said:


> so as some members were claiming on the day of attack, " one plane destroyed and two damaged" seems highly possible. Why PAF is not showing all planes together to clear any doubts.


 
There seem to be some practical difficulties for the PAF to undertake such a project now.
The latest news item is some-what telling.


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## TaimiKhan

aanshu001 said:


> so as some members were claiming on the day of attack, " one plane destroyed and two damaged" seems highly possible. Why PAF is not showing all planes together to clear any doubts.



I think PAF statement is more then enough. 

May be the reporter is himself exaggerating by having read material on the net, such news item does attract attention, which can be clearly seen right now.

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## Major Sam

WTH is going on really we need to do something otherwise our assets will finished one by one


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## Windjammer

*BUSTED*......*False news contributed to the same character behind the earlier BS.*

*Some idiot called Zia Tanouwli.
*




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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## noksss

Windjammer said:


> These are not official statements, media the world over conduct their own analysts and observations, still credit goes to Pakistan's media and intelligence agencies for maintaining some sanity, for we are well aware of the competency in our surroundings.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/179582-raw-gets-egg-face.html



Ya even we are aware of the compentency of our surrounding the so called world best agency cant stop the attack on
military installation like PNS Mehran,Minhas forget about stoping the day to day bombing in pakistan

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## Ammyy

noksss said:


> Ya even we are aware of the compentency of our surrounding the so called world best agency cant stop the attack on
> military installation like PNS Mehran,Minhas forget about stoping the day to day bombing in pakistan


 
May be they are not working within Pakistan  

That's why they dnt care what happening within Pakistan


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## Black Widow

Paksiatni have caught the attackers with Suicide jackets, If RAW/KGB/MI6/IB/CIA/Mosad/Burmese Intelligence/Chinese_Intelligence/Lankan_Intelligence or Martian_intelligence is involved that will come out soon. 



Its already many weeks, yet no words from Pakistani, means either attackers are hard nut to crack, or the above mentioned Agencies are not involved, Its Internal Job..

Till Date:
1. Pakistan caught attackers of "Srilankan team" , No words yet ,who were they.
2. PNS mehran case, many arrests were made, No words yet, no confession, no proofs of outsider involvement.
3. 100 of Suicide attacks: Many arrests made, No word yet , no confession released, No proof of "Foren" Involvement.

Paksiatni have caught the attackers with Suicide jackets, If RAW/KGB/MI6/IB/CIA/Mosad/Burmese Intelligence/Chinese_Intelligence/Lankan_Intelligence or Martian_intelligence is involved that will come out soon. 



Its already many weeks, yet no words from Pakistani, means either attackers are hard nut to crack, or the above mentioned Agencies are not involved, Its Internal Job..

Till Date:
1. Pakistan caught attackers of "Srilankan team" , No words yet ,who were they.
2. PNS mehran case, many arrests were made, No words yet, no confession, no proofs of outsider involvement.
3. 100 of Suicide attacks: Many arrests made, No word yet , no confession released, No proof of "Foren" Involvement.


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## Windjammer

noksss said:


> Ya even we are aware of the compentency of our surrounding the so called world best agency cant stop the attack on
> military installation like PNS Mehran,Minhas forget about stoping the day to day bombing in pakistan



Acute lack of comprehension to say the least but then looking at your flags, that's obviously expected, you see when a rubber dingy leisurely sailed right down your throat, the best RAW could have done is provide the intelligence and not fight them, same applied to the ISI.... but hey, they didn't hold a city hostage for three days. 



DRDO said:


> May be they are not working within Pakistan
> 
> That's why they dnt care what happening within Pakistan


 
At least they are not conducting any FAKE ENCOUNTERS.


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## Ammyy

Windjammer said:


> At least they are not conducting any FAKE ENCOUNTERS.



So you are happy with all these attack in Pakistan ??? 



> In the first case, due for a hearing on Wednesday, the Supreme Court has ordered the ISI to produce in court seven suspected militants it has been holding since 2010  and to explain how four other detainees from the *same group died in mysterious circumstances over the past six months.*


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/world/asia/isi-in-pakistan-faces-court-cases.html?pagewanted=all

You talking about fake encounters ??



> The case, due to be heard on Friday, will offer a window into the workings of the ISI and its sister agency, Military Intelligence, *and charges that they have made hundreds of Pakistanis disappear.*


Pakistan's spy agency ISI faces court over disappearances | World news | guardian.co.uk


If RAW is able to save us with these encounters so I dnt have any problem


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## Windjammer

^^^^^^^^

Seems you lack the comprehension to differentiate between a spy agency involved in covert operations in national interest and those conducting fake encounters for personal incentives. !!!


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## Ammyy

Windjammer said:


> ^^^^^^^^
> 
> Seems you lack the comprehension to differentiate between a spy agency involved in covert operations in national interest and those conducting fake encounters for* personal incentives. !!!*



Personal Incentives ????

looks like you found nothing else to proof your stupid claim


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## Arsalan

Windjammer said:


> *BUSTED*......*False news contributed to the same character behind the earlier BS.*
> 
> *Some idiot called Zia Tanouwli.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



well that sums it up!! 
Thanks windjammer for clearing this for us.
This is stupid news reporting at its best.

I rember when the older news of fire, and assets buring and blah blah surfaced i contacted a friend at Kamra and he was surprised and said that OH!! LET ME CHECK!!
.
.
.
.
.
he called back later to tell me that yes, they were burning dry grass to clear the field!!
Pathetic!

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## notsuperstitious

Windjammer said:


> ^^^^^^^^
> 
> Seems you lack the comprehension to differentiate between a spy agency involved in covert operations in national interest and those conducting fake encounters for personal incentives. !!!



Lets agree to disagree on what is more of a problem, individual failure or institutional. Its all off topic.

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## Windjammer

fateh71 said:


> Lets agree to disagree on what is more of a problem, individual failure or *institutional*. Its all off topic.



That's a negative, since Oscar explained elsewhere that the relevant intelligence was provided by the agency, however, it was up to the concerned to take neccesary precautions. !!


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## HAIDER

Should be punishment for Yellow Journalism .....media shouldn't be free like this....its too much..

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## noksss

Windjammer said:


> Acute lack of comprehension to say the least but then looking at your flags, that's obviously expected, you see when a rubber dingy leisurely sailed right down your throat, the best RAW could have done is provide the intelligence and not fight them, same applied to the ISI.... but hey, they didn't hold a city hostage for three days.
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are not conducting any FAKE ENCOUNTERS.



Im sure u will be happy by mentioning the whole city hostage thing and i am not surprised looking at your flags

Hey then the same can be said to RAW also right they have given prior intelligence before Mumbai attack 
But ISI dont have any intelligence before PNS Mehran or the Rawalpindi attack thats what i meant 
And how did U guys keep the whole city hostage by Bravely killing innocents in Railway station,hospitals,coffee shops,
Hotels when there is no commandos present


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## umair shah

there is a news on the front page of today's JUNG newspaper that PAF has suffered a loss of $200 million due to damage done to SAAB AWACS aircraft on attack at PAF base kamra.


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## Jango

umair shah said:


> there is a news on the front page of today's JUNG newspaper that PAF has suffered a loss of $200 million due to damage done to SAAB AWACS aircraft on attack at PAF base kamra.


 
Do you mean this?

$200 million questions for PAF

Note: the writer is Farrukh Saleem. Not a average nonsense reporter.

BTW, what is the cost of a single SAAB 2000? 180 million?

Although the later points and questions by him such as penetration, kevlar, etc etc maybe debatable


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## TAC

nuclearpak said:


> Do you mean this?
> 
> $200 million questions for PAF
> 
> Note: the writer is Farrukh Saleem. Not a average nonsense reporter.
> 
> BTW, what is the cost of a single SAAB 2000? 180 million?
> 
> Although the later points and questions by him such as penetration, kevlar, etc etc maybe debatable


 
This 'report' is just reffering to 'some reports' ie those urdu ones already posted -- and simply speculating that *if these reports are correct* the damage to PAF would be $200 million. To twist this into - the paper is saying that PAF has actualy suffered $200 million loss is a stretch to say the least.

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## airmarshal

TAC said:


> This 'report' is just reffering to 'some reports' ie those urdu ones already posted -- and simply speculating that *if these reports are correct* the damage to PAF would be $200 million. To twist this into - the paper is saying that PAF has actualy suffered $200 million loss is a stretch to say the least.


 
The problem with Pakistani government and security agencies is that they want to put everything in the wraps. They want to act stoic, stiff and dont want to communicate with their own people. 

It would have been a lot easier to be truthful and for the public eye, truth has to be seen to believed, not just stated. The idea is that the Air Force could have taken a select group of journalists on the tour of the facility and to openly show to them the nature of damage. This would have stopped the speculation we hear every passing day.


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## XYON

This is accurate news. Ericsson (Dubai) has given the PAF an estimate of around US$200 million to cater for the repair to the Erieye during the said attack



nuclearpak said:


> Do you mean this?
> 
> $200 million questions for PAF
> 
> Note: the writer is Farrukh Saleem. Not a average nonsense reporter.
> 
> BTW, what is the cost of a single SAAB 2000? 180 million?
> 
> Although the later points and questions by him such as penetration, kevlar, etc etc maybe debatable


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## Jango

XYON said:


> This is accurate news. Ericsson (Dubai) has given the PAF an estimate of around US$200 million to cater for the repair to the Erieye during the said attack


 
How much is a plane? Only the plane, not the AWACS.

And Ericsson Dubai? The dealer in Dubai?


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## XYON

The total deal was worth around US$1.4B for 3 aircraft. The aircraft itself does not cost as much as the EW, ECM AND ECCM equipment in it. Damage has been does to the aircraft skin and to the sensitive surveillance equipment on board. This is the reason why the US$250M estimate!!

The Erieye aircraft were sold through the defense office of Ericsson (Sweden) that used to be in Pakistan but some years back (in Saudi Pak Tower, Islamabad) but shifted to Dubai instead due to the security situation in Pakistan.



nuclearpak said:


> How much is a plane? Only the plane, not the AWACS.
> 
> And Ericsson Dubai? The dealer in Dubai?


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## Safriz

National 200 million dollars questions for PAF Farrukh Saleem
Friday, September 07, 2012
From Print Edition 81 32 9 2 ISLAMABAD: In October 2005, Svenska Aeroplan Aktiebolaget or
Saab, the Swedish manufacturer, agreed to sell us the most
modern airborne tactical surveillance system  a high-speed
turboprop that uses 4,591 shp Rolls-Royce AE 2100 turboprop
engines and is equipped with Ericsson Microwave Systems
Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C) based on the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA). In 2009, we got the best and the most cost-efficient air policing
platform but paid through the nose a wholesome Swedish krona 8.3
billion or an equivalent of $1.2 billion  $800 million for Saab and $
400 million for the Erieye. Saab 2000 Erieye was built to specifications of the Pakistan Air Force
(PAF) with a 450-km Erieye radar range. The Erieye is not only data-
linked to the PAF command and control infrastructure but links up with
our F-16 Fighting Falcons as well. PAF Base Minhas has two fighter squadrons. On December 10, 2007, a
suicide bomber attacked a PAF employees bus. On January 18, 2008,
four rockets were fired one of which landed on the roof of the NCO
mess and two rockets inside the Mirage Rebuild Factory. On October
23, 2009, a suicide bomber killed eight people on a check post outside
the base. Thats a total of three attacks on the same PAF Base. In between, PNS Mehrans principal assets the Lockheed P-3 Orions, the
$36 million four-engine turboprop anti-submarine and maritime
surveillance aircraft, also came under attack and were severely
damaged. On August 16, 2012, PAF Base Minhas came under a serious attack yet
again. The attack was targeted and the target was Saab 2000 Erieye.
Rocket propelled grenade(s) were fired at the Orions and rocket
propelled grenade(s) were fired at the Saab 2000. According to some
reports, one Saab 2000 was destroyed and two others were damaged.
Other reports claimed one destroyed and one damaged. All said and done, thats at least a $200 million loss, if not a lot more. Is the PAF unaware of the fact that Pakistan is in a state of war? How
can rocket propelled grenades penetrate hangars that house the Orions
and the Saab 2000? Why was more than one Saab in one location?
Hasnt the PAF built Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS), Kevlar deployable
shelters or underground shelters for the most prized of our aircraft?
How did the intruders know the exact location of the Orions and the Saabs? Why cant we have buffer zones around facilities that store
Orions and Saabs? Why did the base commander himself jump into the
firefight? We are at war and the PAF ought to be practicing dispersal at
bases as well as dispersal between bases. Ejaz Haider, in his column titled Analysis: the bigger questions
surrounding Kamra, calls P-3 Orion as Pakistan Navys (PN) eyes and
Saab 2000 as Pakistan Air Forces eyes. Imagine; our enemy is taking
out our eyes  one at a time  and PAF was caught catnapping. An
experienced aviator once said: There are only two types of aircraft 
fighters and targets.



XYON said:


> This is accurate news. Ericsson (Dubai) has given the PAF an estimate of around US$200 million to cater for the repair to the Erieye during the said attack


 
The article you quoted..i posted the whole of it above..
It doesnt say 'reoair cost 200million.'
It says each saab 2000 costs 200 million,.no mention of reoair cost..so please stop jumping to conclusions.


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## Safriz

PCNS ensures Air Force all additional funds would be made available.
PHOTO: AFP ISLAMABAD: The Parliamentary Committee on National Security (PCNS) has
directed the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) to tighten security measures
at airbases and sensitive facilities across the country while
assuring the PAF that all additional funds required to enhance
security measures would be made available. Reiterating the importance of protecting the countrys air assets, the
PCNS directed the deputy chief of air staff to urgently compile financial
estimates for new security measures and guaranteed that the
committee was ready to send its recommendation for allocation of
more funds for the safety of national installations. Talking to The Express Tribune, PCNS chairman Senator Raza Rabbani
said people who lost their lives while defending the base were
martyrs and the committee members express our heartfelt solidarity
with their loved ones. Emphasising the need to tighten security at Kamra, which houses the
countrys largest aeronautical complex and has been subject to three
terror attacks in the past three years, Rabbani added that Once PAF
comes with new financial estimates, PCNS will recommend the
issuance of more funds for safety of Kamra base. During the in-camera briefing to the PCNS on the Kamra terrorist
attack, base commander, Air Commodore Muhammad Azam revealed
that the three terrorists involved in the attack hailed from Punjab
while one of the three was confirmed to be a resident of Sialkot.


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## Jango

Safriz said:


> Hasnt the PAF built Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS), Kevlar deployable
> shelters or underground shelters for the most prized of our aircraft?
> How did the intruders know the exact location of the Orions and the Saabs? Why cant we have buffer zones around facilities that store
> Orions and Saabs?


 Yeah, as if it is a piece of cake to do it.


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## Anotherangle

nuclearpak said:


> Yeah, as if it is a piece of cake to do it.



Let me ask you sir, what would it take:
1. to have 2/3 platoons dug in around an airbase home to assets like AWACS?
2. to raise secondary sand walls as high as aircrafts to obstruct an incoming rocket?


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## Jango

Anotherangle said:


> Let me ask you sir, what would it take:
> 1. to have 2/3 platoons dug in around an airbase home to assets like AWACS?
> 2. to raise secondary sand walls as high as aircrafts to obstruct an incoming rocket?




My point was about the HAS for everything and Kevlar hangars etc etc.

We do not enough space to dig in a platoon around our bases. Chaklala, Kamra, Masroor etc etc don't simply have enough of a buffer zone around them.


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> My point was about the HAS for everything and Kevlar hangars etc etc.
> 
> We do not enough space to dig in a platoon around our bases. Chaklala, Kamra, Masroor etc etc don't simply have enough of a buffer zone around them.


 
buffer zone is must must must sir jee


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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> buffer zone is must must must sir jee


 
Yes it is. 

There is a reason US bases in Afg are in the middle of nowhere, i.e Bagram etc etc.

In Pakistan however, bar one or two, none have enough space between outer wall and civilian population.


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> There is a reason US bases in Afg are in the middle of nowhere, i.e Bagram etc etc.
> 
> In Pakistan however, bar one or two, none have enough space between outer wall and civilian population.


 
not only this but look nuke sites are same in danger  they should have clean buffer zone between the first wall and first fence some 500metters. any adult try to cross it shot him from tower .


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## zalaan

i have no doubt in my mind and its common sense that there may be an involvement of an inside snitch the solution is simple find traitors and prosecute them


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## karan.1970

Imran Khan said:


> not only this but look nuke sites are same in danger  they should have clean buffer zone between the first wall and first fence some 500metters. any adult try to cross it shot him from tower .


 
Any special arrangements around Nuke sites, will actually act like an advertisement about those sites being Nuke sites. The best defence for Nukes is for people to not even know where they are stored..


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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> not only this but look nuke sites are same in danger  they should have clean buffer zone between the first wall and first fence some 500metters. any adult try to cross it shot him from tower .


 
Nukes are a different story. They may seem really close, but are actuall very very far. 

There is the overground eatablishment first. Then there is the tunnel system. Firstly the tunnel entrance is secluded. Then there are long distances of tunnels underground and in mountains, a labyrinth of tunnels, then blast doors etc etc etc, and then the warhead. All the warheads are underground in Pakistan. So you cannot take a meanful nuke without going underground, and because there is no google earth for underground, nobody can get a idea or general sense of placement and direction, unauthorised person of course. 

I wrote a post in some thread about the distances of the outer most boundary of base, to the nearest houses and the general distance from the wall.


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## Anotherangle

zalaan said:


> i have no doubt in my mind and its common sense that there may be an involvement of an inside snitch the solution is simple find traitors and prosecute them



 
Dear, this is an scapegoat for hiding the real problem, not a solution: the enemy usually has the information and good defense means despite the intelligence, the enemy fails. Spying and counter-spying will continue; it is a game of cat and mouse. The solution is to improve your *planning*!


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## khanasifm

*underground hangers
382
*

http://books.google.com/books?id=rN...;ved=0CEUQ6AEwBjgU#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=true


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## Safriz

For RPG Heavy Gauge wire mesh with gaps between them can be a cheap protection..The Shaped charge deforms and loses effectiveness while colliding with wire mesh..

So yes there are solutions...
For buffer zone..Old style moat? around the base?

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## Safriz

^^^^
For your comment...being racist is an understatement......


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## mughaljee




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## ice_man

from what i heard the Saab Systems Erieye have totally refused to support PAF in repairs. they also have become as paranoid as the americans about technology falling into chinese hands. so i guess our losses *will not be* replenish

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## TaimiKhan

ice_man said:


> from what i heard the Saab Systems Erieye have totally refused to support PAF in repairs. they also have become as paranoid as the americans about technology falling into chinese hands. so i guess our losses *will not be* replenish



They have made agreements with respect to services. And if they were so paranoid in the first place, why sell and then keep delivering them. Had that been the case, PAF would have locked those aerial platforms rather then flying them as flying them would need service & repair. 

And there has been no loss, just slight damage to the airframe, the radar & its support equipment is safe.

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## rohailmalhi

TaimiKhan said:


> They have made agreements with respect to services. And if they were so paranoid in the first place, why sell and then keep delivering them. Had that been the case, PAF would have locked those aerial platforms rather then flying them as flying them would need service & repair.
> 
> And there has been no loss, just slight damage to the airframe, the radar & its support equipment is safe.



Yes exactly they have contract with PAF for service and repairs and what I know is they cannot loose Pakistan as a customer.

Just for a moment think how childish they would be refusing us service and then we have no choice but to go to china . They will loose a customer as well as our trust. and there technology will be in China ...........

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## TaimiKhan

rohailmalhi said:


> Yes exactly they have contract with PAF for service and repairs and what I know is they cannot loose Pakistan as a customer.
> 
> Just for a moment think how childish they would be refusing us service and then we have no choice but to go to china . They will loose a customer as well as our trust. and there technology will be in China ...........



Yaar, Chinese don't need tech for each stuff. They have been doing research in AESA tech for past many many years and lot of their aerial, land & naval radar platforms are using AESA tech in them, which clearly suggests that Chinese have mastered this tech and have started implementing it after having fully satisfied in their tech and its performance. Their SAM systems are using AESA tech, their latest DDG / frigates are having the AESA tech, their first re-furbished aircraft carrier has AESA radar, KJ-200 & 2000 are AESA tech etc etc. If they had not been confident, they would not put this tech in theit latest & most critical platforms.

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## ice_man

TaimiKhan said:


> They have made agreements with respect to services. And if they were so paranoid in the first place, why sell and then keep delivering them. Had that been the case, PAF would have locked those aerial platforms rather then flying them as flying them would need service & repair.
> 
> And there has been no loss, just slight damage to the airframe, the radar & its support equipment is safe.



taimi remember the 90s and the F-16s drama? well the same issue is with the SAABs they HAD to deliever due to contract but provide spares was part of it but fix it and repair it was NOT a part of it. 

Taimi i would recommend you speak to some one in Kamra you will get your answer.

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## TaimiKhan

ice_man said:


> taimi remember the 90s and the F-16s drama? well the same issue is with the SAABs they HAD to deliever due to contract but provide spares was part of it but fix it and repair it was NOT a part of it.
> 
> Taimi i would recommend you speak to some one in Kamra you will get your answer.



There are so many members who are giving very different statements based on their insider sources. 

But the most trust worthy ones with past very good and accurate record have clearly stated that nothing was lost and minor damage done, which can be repaired here in Pakistan, but for double checking purpose and a thorough review of the airframe it would be send back. And if Sweden does what you just said, it will bring them a bad name, we still buy weapons from them and Erieye is still needed to be exported by them, such actions will bring their reputation at risk. And as said, had they been paranoid, they would not have sold in the first place when this paranoia of Chinese copying tech was there, this is not a new phenomena, its an old one, and Chinese are doing good in it.

Still, time will tell what is the truth and what is not.

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## Safriz

The plane is made by saab and Awacs by ericcson...
Pakinstan paid bith seperately..so i guess there are two seperate contracts with two manufacturers..
For plane maintinance with saab and for awacs ericsson...

Plus sweden has a non alliance strategy...they cannot compete with Usa in weapon exports so they grab oppertunity where USA doest supply weapons...such as in Pakistan's case..
Unlike USA .. Sweden doesnt have unlimited resources and needs saab,ericsson to remain in business...
So i dont see any reason why would they refuse repairs or spares.

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## Fieldmarshal

TaimiKhan said:


> And there has been no loss, just slight damage to the airframe, the radar & its support equipment is safe.



Taimi Khan all i will tell you right now is that that *PAF has suffered pretty substantial losses* .
and this is an eye witness account.

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## TaimiKhan

Fieldmarshal said:


> Taimi Khan all i will tell you right now is that that *PAF has suffered pretty substantial losses* .
> and this is an eye witness account.



And sir other eye witness accounts give a different story. What to believe and what not. Time will only tell.

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## Fieldmarshal

TaimiKhan said:


> And sir other eye witness accounts give a different story. What to believe and what not. Time will only tell.



maybe some day i can post some pics

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## IceCold

Fieldmarshal said:


> maybe some day i can post some pics



Man if you know something why not tell (without compromising national security of course). Why create all the suspense? PN suffered losses and they were there for everyone to see. Are you implying that somehow PAF has managed to keep it a secret even after sustaining the amount of loss you are claiming to?

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## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> And sir other eye witness accounts give a different story. What to believe and what not. Time will only tell.



I beg to differ sir ji.

It is *Substantial*!

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## ice_man

the question is not if it was Substantial or not! the question is WILL SWEDEN help us repair and replinish our losses??? if not then truly the terrorists or should i say traitors have succeded in their mission remarkably!

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## Hyperion

nuclearpak said:


> I beg to differ sir ji.
> 
> It is *Substantial*!


@NP, mate, the substantial damage is there, however, just to ONE airframe and most of it is modular. Don't fret too much!

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## Fieldmarshal

ice_man said:


> the question is not if it was Substantial or not! the question is WILL SWEDEN help us repair and replinish our losses??? if not then truly the terrorists or should i say traitors have succeded in their mission remarkably!



Sweden will help with the ones that can be helped but even they are not miracle workers.

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## Dazzler

as per the contract, they are bound to provide after sale support and maintain the whole system no matter how substantial the damage is, it is still accidental. If not repairable, then attrition will occur just like in case of 2 P3C Orions.

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## Viper0011.

ice_man said:


> the question is not if it was Substantial or not! the question is WILL SWEDEN help us repair and replinish our losses??? if not then truly the terrorists or should i say traitors have succeded in their mission remarkably!


 
Yes, the Swedes will help to fix it. They are bound by a contract between the countries so they can't run away from it. 

I mentioned earlier in my posts. The terrorists succeeded in the mission (at least partially), they knocked out 1 AWACS and if they weren't a little delayed, they would've caught the other one on the tarmac and they would've knocked that out too. Luckily, the scheduled got delayed due to ONE hero soldier and the tower stopped the other AWACS from landing. Otherwise, it would've been two damaged vs. just one

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## rohailmalhi

nabil_05 said:


> as per the contract, they are bound to provide after sale support and maintain the whole system no matter how substantial the damage is, it is still accidental. If not repairable, *then attrition will occur just like in case of 2 P3C Orions*.



Means that Pakistan didnt pay for the new PC3s ??????????? It got them for free in place of destroyed P3C's.

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## Dazzler

rohailmalhi said:


> Means that Pakistan didnt pay for the new PC3s ??????????? It got them for free in place of destroyed P3C's.



Since i do not know the dynamics of actual contract so i cannot comment whether Swedes can charge for the repairing services or not. The contract is not a small one, rather, this AWACS (Saab Horizon) system has been marketed globally in an Airshow including UAE and Thailand has also short listed it so they have to fulfil the contract as per agreement for more than one reasons, second reason being those probable customers having a close eye on contract fulfilment.

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## rohailmalhi

nabil_05 said:


> Since i do not know the dynamics of actual contract so i cannot comment whether Swedes can charge for the repairing services or not. The contract is not a small one, rather, this AWACS (Saab Horizon) system has been marketed globally in an Airshow including UAE and Thailand has also short listed it so they have to fulfil the contract as per agreement for more than one reasons, second reason being those probable customers having a close eye on contract fulfilment.



I was actually asking about 2 new P3c's Pakistan got.

PS: I know as few people are confused here that sweds will not help Pakistan out , it will be a mess of them as their defense industry is trying to survive.How are they suppose to gain trust from new customers if they are not going to support their old customers ?

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## Dazzler

rohailmalhi said:


> I was actually asking about 2 new P3c's Pakistan got.



As per my info, we got them for free.

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## Najam Khan

Pakistani T.V and print media are counting two losses of Saab-2000 in the attack.This photo released by APP on August 17 shows an unhurt Saab-2000 in background.






2 out of the 4 Saab AEW&C aircraft were stationed in the base at the time of attack. Also, there is "NO" news on internet or SAAB/PAF press release confirming the delivery of last 4th aircraft to PAF. 

I would leave the remaining part of puzzle for you guys...

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## TaimiKhan

Najam Khan said:


> Pakistani T.V and print media are counting two losses of Saab-2000 in the attack.This photo released by APP on August 17 shows an unhurt Saab-2000 in background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 out of the 4 Saab AEW&C aircraft were stationed in the base at the time of attack. Also, there is "NO" news on internet or SAAB/PAF press release confirming the delivery of last 4th aircraft to PAF.
> 
> I would leave the remaining part of puzzle for you guys...



Look at the faces of the airmen & officers, do they give a look of men who have lost one of their prized platform, don't think so.

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## fatman17

nabil_05 said:


> As per my info, we got them for free.



yes but paid for the upgrades

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## Roybot

nabil_05 said:


> As per my info, we got them for free.


 


fatman17 said:


> yes but paid for the upgrades



So I guess that rules out the speculations that somehow America was involved in these attacks? Cause if they really wanted to destroy these planes why would they replace them with freebies.

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## TaimiKhan

Roybot said:


> So I guess that rules out the speculations that somehow America was involved in these attacks? Cause if they really wanted to destroy these planes why would they replace them with freebies.



The sane members would not be commenting that America was behind the attack as destroying such planes don't cause them any good, as incase of any confrontation, they can easily take them down. 

The blaming on US is for other reasons and indirectly attributed to destruction of these planes.

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## Dazzler

Roybot said:


> So I guess that rules out the speculations that somehow America was involved in these attacks? Cause if they really wanted to destroy these planes why would they replace them with freebies.



America has other things to worry for, both P3 and Erieye are a pain in someone else's head and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

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## nwmalik

nabil_05 said:


> America has other things to worry for, both P3 and Erieye are a pain in someone else's head and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.


 
we should be able to defend our assets.
If india is able take down the assets which are pain in their *** then i salute them.

Dont blame our incompetence on others.
I am sorry to say but last few years have really been disappointing and depressing. We as a nation (civil and military) have failed to protect our people and property.

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## Last Hope

Najam Khan said:


> Pakistani T.V and print media are counting two losses of Saab-2000 in the attack.This photo released by APP on August 17 shows an unhurt Saab-2000 in background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 out of the 4 Saab AEW&C aircraft were stationed in the base at the time of attack. Also, there is "NO" news on internet or SAAB/PAF press release confirming the delivery of last 4th aircraft to PAF.
> 
> I would leave the remaining part of puzzle for you guys...



PAF has four Saab-2000. Three are Saab-2000 AEW&C whilst the fourth one is transport version based in Chaklala.



TaimiKhan said:


> Look at the faces of the airmen & officers, do they give a look of men who have lost one of their prized platform, don't think so.



I do see the 'after-war' looks on their faces. They have lost three men (One dead at the time, one in coma and third in ICU.) and they have the right to feel upset over it.

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## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> Look at the faces of the airmen & officers, do they give a look of men who have lost one of their prized platform, don't think so.



Do they look like they lost a DSG Sepoy and a officer? Don't think so.


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## Jango

> The country will receive three more Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) in 2010, Minister for Defence Production Abdul Qayyum Khan Jatoi said. Speaking at a news conference, he said one AWACS plane had reached the country and three more were expected next year.



PAF gets first Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C from Sweden ~ ASIAN DEFENCE

4 A/C are with PAF

Serial numbers:

*1- J019 (Not AWACS, only Saab 2000)*







*2-10045*











*3-10025*





10040 is the 4th one.






So, that is 4 aircraft accounted for.

No aircraft were at Chaklala, as they normally are. 2 were at kamra (on the ground), third one was airborne. Last one was said to be at Sargodha.

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## Dazzler

nwmalik said:


> we should be able to defend our assets.
> If india is able take down the assets which are pain in their *** then i salute them.
> 
> Dont blame our incompetence on others.
> I am sorry to say but last few years have really been disappointing and depressing. We as a nation (civil and military) have failed to protect our people and property.



No one is blaming anyone but ground realities are just that, the war we are fighting is something that even NATO is struggling to meet in Afghanistan. Enemy hidden among masses, for once, its time to open our eyes and prepare for what has surrounded us.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

nabil_05 said:


> No one is blaming anyone but ground realities are just that, the war we are fighting is something that even NATO is struggling to meet in Afghanistan. Enemy hidden among masses, for once, its time to open our eyes and prepare for what has surrounded us.



i think too many people still dont "appreciate" the threats we face

internally and externally....and this is surprising, for a country where too many people are GLUED to the news 24/7

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## Dazzler

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i think too many people still dont "appreciate" the threats we face
> 
> internally and externally....and this is surprising, for a country where too many people are GLUED to the news 24/7



Irony is that these so called "News Channels" are all but political goofy shows, no insight and seldom there is a fact. No wonder the nation has no clue what our forces are dealing with, the 4th generation warfare style, a.k.a urban warfare.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

nabil_05 said:


> Irony is that these so called "News Channels" are all but political goofy shows, no insight and seldom there is a fact. No wonder the nation has no clue what our forces are dealing with, the 4th generation warfare style, a.k.a urban warfare.



at times, they are part of the problem.....they add to the confusion or misinformation.

nobody really can understand simply b/c in the war affected areas most of the information doesnt flow freely....civvies can play their role by reporting suspicious persons; movements of hate/militant groups etc.

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## TaimiKhan

nuclearpak said:


> Do they look like they lost a DSG Sepoy and a officer? Don't think so.



Officer ???/ Who was the officer ??


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## Jango

TaimiKhan said:


> Officer ???/ Who was the officer ??



Some SSG guy I think. It was on this thread I think. Whose pictures were being circulated. Or am I being mistaken?


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## Windjammer

nuclearpak said:


> Some SSG guy *I think*. It was on this thread* I think*. Whose pictures were being circulated. Or am I being mistaken?



That's the whole question......you only think it's happened without any substance......just like you think we lost some AWACS.

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## TaimiKhan

nuclearpak said:


> Some SSG guy I think. It was on this thread I think. Whose pictures were being circulated. Or am I being mistaken?



You are being mistaken. 

2 DSG Jawans were martyred, no officer.

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## Jango

Windjammer said:


> That's the whole question......you only think it's happened without any substance......just like you think we lost some AWACS.


 
There were 2 people killed, and everybody on here said that it was a Major.

And I don't think about the AWACS. 

Good day.


----------



## TaimiKhan

nuclearpak said:


> There were 2 people killed, and everybody on here said that it was a Major.
> 
> And I don't think about the AWACS.
> 
> Good day.



Don't remember anyone said it was a Major, no one said that.


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## Jango

Kamra base attack: Soldier succumbs to injuries, takes death toll to 2 &#8211; The Express Tribune

http://dawn.com/2012/08/17/kamra-base-attack-injured-soldier-succumbs-to-wounds/

No, sorry, it was not an officer. But a soldier.

There were some pictures on this forum of a SSG guy in hospital, and also of him being in a uniform, wearing sun-glasses.


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## fatman17

nabil_05 said:


> Irony is that these so called "News Channels" are all but political goofy shows, no insight and seldom there is a fact. No wonder the nation has no clue what our forces are dealing with, the 4th generation warfare style, a.k.a urban warfare.



the sole aim of our news channels is to create hysteria and sensationalism. the news channel that does it best wins the ratings - thats their aim - not to tell the truth.

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## IceCold

nabil_05 said:


> No one is blaming anyone but ground realities are just that, the war we are fighting is something that even NATO is struggling to meet in Afghanistan. Enemy hidden among masses, for once, its time to open our eyes and prepare for what has surrounded us.



Though i agree with what you said but just a point, NATO or the US is not loosing their prized assets on ground and that too on their home tariff unlike us.


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## Windjammer

9 Taliban Killed by SSG Cammando in Kamra Airbase Attack - YouTube

Islamabad: A Pakistan Air Force official wounded during a Taliban attack on the Kamra airbase succumbed to his injuries on Friday, taking to two the number of security personnel killed in the incident, which also left nine terrorists dead. 

PAF official Muhammad Iqbal died at a military hospital at the Kamra complex in Punjab province, state-run Radio Pakistan reported. 

Iqbal was injured when a group of heavily armed terrorists stormed the airbase yesterday. 



A soldier named Asif Ramzan was killed in the intense gun battle with the attackers yesterday.


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## Fieldmarshal

nuclearpak said:


> PAF gets first Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C from Sweden ~ ASIAN DEFENCE
> 
> Atleast 3 aircraft are in service.
> 
> Serial numbers:
> 
> *1- J019 (Not AWACS, only Saab 2000)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2-10045*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *3-10025*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10040 is the 4th one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, that is 4 aircraft accounted for.
> 
> No aircraft were at Chaklala, as they normally are. 2 were at kamra (on the ground), third one was airborne. Last one was said to be at Sargodha.



All four ac were on the ground at kamra at the time of the attack. three ac were in one hanger and one ac in a separate hanger.
the terrorists waited for all ac to return from their training sorties before launching their attacks.

all the above is eye witness account.

one day i will write all the details along with some pics and after reading them most of u will be hurt, very hurt.


----------



## Windjammer

Fieldmarshal said:


> All four ac were on the ground at kamra at the time of the attack. three ac were in one hanger and one ac in a separate hanger.
> the terrorists waited for all ac to return from their training sorties before launching their attacks.
> 
> all the above is eye witness account.
> 
> one day i will write all the details along with some pics and after reading them most of u will be hurt, very hurt.



So you are saying that the terrorists knew of the flight schedules and sortie environment. ??
As i said before, the attackers allegedly arrived with guns and rockets, and unless they used their rifle buts to smash the aircraft, i fail to understand how else would an aircraft gets destroyed with an acute absence of smoke or fire. !!!
Are the Hangars at Kamra big enough to accommodate three such aircrafts. And since you keep claiming to have some pictures, today is a good day as any to put this thing to rest.


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## Jango

Windjammer said:


> So you are saying that the terrorists knew of the flight schedules and sortie environment. ??



Yes they were. The Saabs were in one place for the first time, and the attack happened. They must have some very good intel and recce.



Windjammer said:


> S
> Are the Hangars at Kamra big enough to accommodate three such aircrafts. And since you keep claiming to have some pictures, today is a good day as any to put this thing to rest.



Well, the hangar there (which houses the Saab) is apprx 97 meters wide, while the wingspan of a Saab 2000 25m. Do the math.



Windjammer said:


> and unless they used their rifle buts to smash the aircraft, i fail to understand how else would an aircraft gets destroyed with an acute absence of smoke or fire. !!!



Again I say, a aircraft does not need to be burned to ashes to be rendered useless. Some airframe damage, and you trash the A/C. The A/C is not a tank. 

Then the damage also needs to be assessed, if the damage is great, and the cost of repair is too great and offsets the benefits, then it is not deemed worthy to be repaired, and written off.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Fieldmarshal said:


> All four ac were on the ground at kamra at the time of the attack. three ac were in one hanger and one ac in a separate hanger.
> the terrorists waited for all ac to return from their training sorties before launching their attacks.
> 
> all the above is eye witness account.
> 
> one day i will write all the details along with some pics and after reading them most of u will be hurt, very hurt.


i know too , but no one here believes me ,

truth is very very bitter , PAF and other govt agencies have lied to us ....
i came to know about the truth about three days later , it was very very painful , extremely painful , 
but no one here in this forum listens to me , every one is believing in ISPR that has lied to us about the facts

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## Echo_419

I hope these terrorist are caught
& Military must find out how the they got the intel on the planes & stuff


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## Mav3rick

Windjammer said:


> That's the whole question......you only think it's happened without any substance......just like you think we lost some AWACS.


 
It was in the newspapers that atleast 1 AWACS was destroyed, the second severely damaged and the third partially damaged. Wasn't the news correct? Did we suffer any material losses in that attack?


----------



## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Mav3rick said:


> It was in the newspapers that atleast 1 AWACS was destroyed, the second severely damaged and the third partially damaged. Wasn't the news correct? Did we suffer any material losses in that attack?


a bitter truth , most of us not ready to accept

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## Jango

Fieldmarshal said:


> one day i will write all the details along with some pics and after reading them most of u will be hurt, very hurt.



If not the pics, then can you tell the serial number of A/C destroyed?


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## Windjammer

Mav3rick said:


> It was in the newspapers that atleast 1 AWACS was destroyed, the second severely damaged and the third partially damaged. Wasn't the news correct? Did we suffer any material losses in that attack?


It was also in the newspaper that Mirage rebuild factory had gone up in smoke with losses mounting to tens of millions, later it transpired that some dry grass in the compound caught fire due to the heat. People are posting all kind of nonsense,....does it qualify to have three aircraft crammed into one hangar, while a single one sits in the other......oh may be it was kept separate for the photo shoot later. Can you imagine three aircraft getting hit in one place (as per claim) and not a trickle of smoke leaves the building.... what to say of beggars belief. It's been a month since this incident took place, apart from the old wifey tales, has anything credible been put forward...... except that people just like to sensationalise on anything and everything. !!

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## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> It was also in the newspaper that Mirage rebuild factory had gone up in smoke with losses mounting to tens of millions, later it transpired that some dry grass in the compound caught fire due to the heat. People are posting all kind of nonsense,....does it qualify to have three aircraft crammed into one hangar, while a single one sits in the other......oh may be it was kept separate for the photo shoot later. Can you imagine three aircraft getting hit in one place (as per claim) and not a trickle of smoke leaves the building.... what to say of beggars belief. It's been a month since this incident took place, apart from the old wifey tales, has anything credible been put forward...... except that people just like to sensationalise on anything and everything. !!



PAF also has not shown the 3 aircrafts in question.. Normally with this kind of speculation going around, most organizations display the visual proofs (if available that is  ) to dispel those rumors.. Keeping the enemy guessing etc is all fine for feeling better, but the fact that ISPR hasnt spoken about it and there is no firm refuting of the rumors, kind of lends credence to the claims of damage being greater than "Minimal" 

Also, one wrong news in a newspaper does not make all subsequent news also wrong.. Just like I remember one eminent Pakistani member  posting a picture of an Indian software company's shop floor as a picture of a Pakistani one.. That does not make all his posts since then as non credible..Does it  ??


----------



## Arsalan

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> i know too , but no one here believes me ,
> 
> truth is very very bitter , PAF and other govt agencies have lied to us ....
> i came to know about the truth about three days later , it was very very painful , extremely painful ,
> but no one here in this forum listens to me , every one is believing in ISPR that has lied to us about the facts



Rehan, we have been told something and those who told us said that this is the truth.
What is the difference between you and them? both say totally different things and both claim that they are right. It is nothing personal brother that no one listens to you! The thing is just that they provide enough points to support there cliam and you are not!
As windjammer have said, its about time! If you have any evidence, WHY YOU DO NOT POST IT!!
If you claim that ISPR lied, you must provide some material so people trust you and not ISPR..

Looking forward to see some credible info from your side!

regards!

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## Last Hope

TaimiKhan said:


> Officer ???/ Who was the officer ??



Captain Tariq Jamil went to coma after being hit by splinters from RPG which landed nearby. The debris went for his head and he stayed in coma for about 5-8 days. If I am not wrong, he was near the Saab hangar.


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## Arsalan

karan.1970 said:


> PAF also has not shown the 3 aircrafts in question.. Normally with this kind of speculation going around, most organizations display the visual proofs (if available that is  ) to dispel those rumors.. Keeping the enemy guessing etc is all fine for feeling better, but the fact that ISPR hasnt spoken about it and there is no firm refuting of the rumors, kind of lends credence to the claims of damage being greater than "Minimal"




Despite all your wishes, i dont think this is the case Karan!!

They do not need to show them in pictures? where are the doubts the questions and speculations going around?? Here on PDF (perhaps because we have a large number of Indian members here).
the news channels or general public have gone past this! they trust what they have been told and ISPR is all good!
I don't see PAF doing a photo shoot of there assets just to please PDF members!!

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## Safriz

nuclearpak said:


> Some SSG guy I think. It was on this thread I think. Whose pictures were being circulated. Or am I being mistaken?


 
That was a facebook rumor,later found to be wrong as the guy's brother commented that the officer is well and alive.



Last Hope said:


> Captain Tariq Jamil went to coma after being hit by splinters from RPG which landed nearby. The debris went for his head and he stayed in coma for about 5-8 days. If I am not wrong, he was near the Saab hangar.


 
This was a facebook romor,nothing else.


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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> PAF also has not shown the 3 aircrafts in question.. Normally with this kind of speculation going around, most organizations display the visual proofs (if available that is  ) to dispel those rumors.. Keeping the enemy guessing etc is all fine for feeling better, but the fact that ISPR hasnt spoken about it and there is no firm refuting of the rumors, kind of lends credence to the claims of damage being greater than "Minimal"
> 
> Also, one wrong news in a newspaper does not make all subsequent news also wrong.. Just like I remember one eminent Pakistani member  posting a picture of an Indian software company's shop floor as a picture of a Pakistani one.. That does not make all his posts since then as non credible..Does it  ??



And when was the last time, PAF used these aircrafts as publicity material, the only time any images were published was at their induction ceremony or they were seen during Highmark exercise. Initially, it was reported that one of the refuellers was damaged in the attack, don't recall PAF either lining up those before the media. And when some members drag in the likes of Sunny Deol in a war debate, one wonders, if they understand the psyche of certain military topics .

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## Jango

Last Hope said:


> Captain Tariq Jamil went to coma after being hit by splinters from RPG which landed nearby. The debris went for his head and he stayed in coma for about 5-8 days. If I am not wrong, he was near the Saab hangar.


Yup, this is the one i quoted. So, turned out to be a rumor.

2 things you should never believe, twitter and facebook rumors.


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## Fieldmarshal

Windjammer said:


> So you are saying that the terrorists knew of the flight schedules and sortie environment. ??
> As i said before, the attackers allegedly arrived with guns and rockets, and unless they used their rifle buts to smash the aircraft, i fail to understand how else would an aircraft gets destroyed with an acute absence of smoke or fire. !!!
> Are the Hangars at Kamra big enough to accommodate three such aircrafts. And since you keep claiming to have some pictures, today is a good day as any to put this thing to rest.



wind jammer with due respect u and the likes of you can all be ostriches and bury their heads in the ground and pretend that nothing has happened or is happening. but the sad reality is what i have written above.
our over the horizon capability (saab) has been damaged severally and almost to the point of extinction. 
i will let every one on one secret that *our awacs (saab) sqd will never ever be at full strength again and it would only be a miracle if we can bring the sqd. back to two third or even half of the original strength.*


further more we all need to apologize to all the members who posted the truth about the actual damage but were made fun of and ridiculed.
for that shame on all of us for doing what we did with out any proof


----------



## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Arsalan said:


> Rehan, we have been told something and those who told us said that this is the truth.
> What is the difference between you and them? both say totally different things and both claim that they are right. It is nothing personal brother that no one listens to you! The thing is just that they provide enough points to support there cliam and you are not!
> As windjammer have said, its about time! If you have any evidence, WHY YOU DO NOT POST IT!!
> If you claim that ISPR lied, you must provide some material so people trust you and not ISPR..
> 
> Looking forward to see some credible info from your side!
> 
> regards!


dear again i say u have ur right not to trust me , but sooner or later u will come to reality


----------



## Najam Khan

Last Hope said:


> *PAF has four Saab-2000. Three are Saab-2000 AEW&C whilst the fourth one is transport version based in Chaklala.*


 
When was the fourth Saab-2000 Sr. no 10025 delivered? Did I miss some news?






AFAIK at the time of attack, 2 out of 3 AEW&C systems were at Minhas. One of them is sometimes used by 12 Sqn (based at Chaklala), I believe its not part of 3 squadron.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

why ISPR don't come clear by showing all saab 2000 aircraft to media , 
if u remember 1965 war we showed the world our jets so as to falsify indian claims , 
Regards


----------



## Najam Khan

Last Hope said:


> Captain Tariq Jamil went to coma after being hit by splinters from RPG which landed nearby. The debris went for his head and he stayed in coma for about 5-8 days. If I am not wrong, he was near the Saab hangar.


 
I think you are mixing different news. He was not part of the SSG team that participated in the operation at Minhas. He was injured in first week of Ramadan in FATA.



REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> *why ISPR don't come clear by showing all saab 2000 aircraft to media , *
> if u remember 1965 war we showed the world our jets so as to falsify indian claims ,
> Regards



First ISPR mainly speaks for PA. Dte of Media Affairs, AHQ, PAF speaks for PAF. That only happen with consent of the air force command. In present security situation placing all aircraft in one station only for a photoshoot is not possible.


----------



## Rafi

To die to sleep, To sleep, perchance to Dream; Ay, there's the rub.


----------



## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> And when was the last time, PAF used these aircrafts as publicity material, the only time any images were published was at their induction ceremony or they were seen during Highmark exercise. Initially, it was reported that one of the refuellers was damaged in the attack, don't recall PAF either lining up those before the media. And when some members drag in the likes of Sunny Deol in a war debate, one wonders, if they understand the psyche of certain military topics .





Ok.. Nothing was damaged.. \o/ .. Enjoy 




REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> why ISPR don't come clear by showing all saab 2000 aircraft to media ,
> if u remember 1965 war we showed the world our jets so as to falsify indian claims ,
> Regards





Sunny Deol ?? who ?? where?? what ?? 

PS: Nice deflection try on the effect of past publishing/posting on present and future credibility.. But the question stands


----------



## Jango

Najam Khan said:


> When was the fourth Saab-2000 Sr. no 10025 delivered? Did I miss some news?



10025 was the aircraft that participated at Dubai airshow.











The image of the tail fin is also from Dubai Airshow I believe.

Well what do you know, the number of windows on one side is more than the other!


----------



## Capt.Popeye

nuclearpak said:


> 10025 was the aircraft that participated at Dubai airshow.
> 
> Well what do you know, the number of windows on one side is more than the other!



That is because of the location of the operators' work-stations.


----------



## Jango

Capt.Popeye said:


> That is because of the location of the operators' work-stations.



10040 and 10025 have 4 windows on starboard, while 10045 has 6.


----------



## Najam Khan

nuclearpak said:


> *10025 was the aircraft that participated at Dubai airshow.*
> 
> The image of the tail fin is also from Dubai Airshow I believe.
> 
> Well what do you know, the number of windows on one side is more than the other!



It was sent by SAAB, not PAF. Last I heard under evaluation in Sweden and pending delivery to Pakistan. SAAB (If not PAF) should have released delivery report in media or internet.


----------



## Jango

Najam Khan said:


> It was sent by SAAB, not PAF. Last I heard under evaluation in Sweden and pending delivery to Pakistan. SAAB (If not PAF) should have released delivery report in media or internet.



PAF personnel were with it.

And it has been delivered AFAIK.

Do we have 4 Saab 2000 or 5?

There is one with c/n 049 and serial number 10049 also said to be with PAF, although no picture of it anywhere. Was the order scrapped? Only pics of 10025, 10040, 10045 and J019 (formerly AP-OOI)

Second thing, as long as the aircraft is with Saab, and not delivered to PAF< they do not have PAF markings on it, and have a Saab logo on it, and the Swedish civilian registration.

10045 had SE 45 (civilian swedish number), and in the following pic, a aircraft SE 049 is shown. It was supposed to have 10049 registration with PAF. What happened to it? 

The induction ceremony picture is of SE-45 (10045), while J019, 10040 and 10025 are pictured with PAF. So, 049 acquisition scrapped?


----------



## Vortex

If it is true that all saab have destroyed, then despite beeing Pakistani, a proud Pakistani who stand always with our armed forces, i have just to say : Pakistan hatam ho jay to better hoye gha !

No more forceand will left inside me to defend my own country


----------



## Capt.Popeye

nuclearpak said:


> 10040 and 10025 have 4 windows on starboard, while 10045 has 6.



Maybe some changes in the internal configuration led to that. Otherwise the reason is location of the work-stations. Remember that the SAAB is a narrow-bodied aircraft, so little possibility of a symmetrical layout. The port-side has the crew movement area.


----------



## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> Ok.. Nothing was damaged.. \o/ .. Enjoy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Sunny Deol ?? who ?? where?? what ?? *
> 
> PS: Nice deflection try on the effect of past publishing/posting on present and future credibility.. But the question stands






karan.1970 said:


> Hunters came out in the morning since that plane does not have night fighting capabilities...Till then, *it was Sunny Deol*  who kept the Pakistani tank regiment in check



Will burst other bubbles in due course. ...kinda busy right now.


----------



## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> Will burst other bubbles in due course. ...kinda busy right now.



 Shuroo kisne kiya tha ??? 



karan.1970 said:


> Myth_buster_1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the IAF hunters that halted PA attack *not SUNNY DOEL*! Not a considerable achievement since Pakistani tanks were bogged down in sand and had no air support other wise IAF hunters would have been hunted again by inferior sabers.[/URL]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hunters came out in the morning since that plane does not have night fighting capabilities...Till then, it was Sunny Deol  who kept the Pakistani tank regiment in check
Click to expand...


 Typical of some Pakistanis.. Always ignoring their own missteps.. like conveniently forgetting about operation Gibraltar when talking of 1965 



Still waiting for the impact of past posts on present credibility response...


----------



## Bratva

Last Hope said:


> Captain Tariq Jamil went to coma after being hit by splinters from RPG which landed nearby. The debris went for his head and he stayed in coma for about 5-8 days. If I am not wrong, he was near the Saab hangar.



check and verify your facts before posting such kind of news. This guy wounded in Orakzai Op. Belong to SSG (3rd Commando battalion)

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## Safriz

mafiya said:


> check and verify your facts before posting such kind of news. This guy wounded in Orakzai Op. Belong to SSG (3rd Commando battalion)



but he isn't dead...he is alive and well...


----------



## Mav3rick

Windjammer said:


> It was also in the newspaper that Mirage rebuild factory had gone up in smoke with losses mounting to tens of millions, later it transpired that some dry grass in the compound caught fire due to the heat. People are posting all kind of nonsense,....does it qualify to have three aircraft crammed into one hangar, while a single one sits in the other......oh may be it was kept separate for the photo shoot later. Can you imagine three aircraft getting hit in one place (as per claim) and not a trickle of smoke leaves the building.... what to say of beggars belief. It's been a month since this incident took place, apart from the old wifey tales, has anything credible been put forward...... except that people just like to sensationalise on anything and everything. !!


 
But then ISPR should have come out with a statement because citizens like myself, who do not have access to Military personnel for first hand information, have to rely on news that circulate. I am personally so irritated at the potential loss as there is no confirmed news regarding these AWACS.


----------



## karan.1970

Mav3rick said:


> But then ISPR should have come out with a statement because citizens like myself, who do not have access to Military personnel for first hand information, have to rely on news that circulate. I am personally so irritated at the potential loss as there is no confirmed news regarding these AWACS.



I agree... Even if there is really no major loss as most "in the know" members are claiming (and that quite possible), even then, a human mind normally assumes the worse.. PAF/ISPR should reassure its citizens of having successfully thwarting the terrorist attack on the base by some symbolic gesture or other..


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## Capt.Popeye

karan.1970 said:


> I agree... Even if there is really no major loss as most "in the know" members are claiming (and that quite possible), even then, a human mind normally assumes the worse.. PAF/ISPR should reassure its citizens of having successfully thwarting the terrorist attack on the base by some symbolic gesture or other..



Karan, don't make it difficult for them; their hands are full already. More important matters need to be attended to.


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## Bratva

Mav3rick said:


> But then ISPR should have come out with a statement because citizens like myself, who do not have access to Military personnel for first hand information, have to rely on news that circulate. I am personally so irritated at the potential loss as there is no confirmed news regarding these AWACS.




After 1971 war, PAF lined up all the newly bought mirage aircraft which everyone though were destroyed in IAF bombing raid. This time PAF is holding up the news,,, so you can guess what's happened or happening behind the scenes that PAF don't want to tell the public.


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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> Shuroo kisne kiya tha ???



Aur deny kaun kar raha tha. !!!... anyway it's off topic. !!



> Typical of some Pakistanis.. Always ignoring their own missteps.. like conveniently forgetting about operation Gibraltar when talking of 1965



Should avoid cheap banter before you are donated another Kanji Varam for the dowry. 




> Still waiting for the impact of past posts on present credibility response...



Too bad, as much as you people have become accustomed to firing over other's shoulders, in essence, there is nothing for you to fulfil your wish list here, PAF, is not going to line up it's aircraft after every incident. !!!


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## Windjammer

mafiya said:


> After 1971 war, PAF lined up all the newly bought mirage aircraft which everyone though were destroyed in IAF bombing raid. This time PAF is holding up the news,,, so you can guess what's happened or happening behind the scenes that PAF don't want to tell the public.


Dude, that was in full scale war with another country, which was making tall claims of destroying six PAF Mirages.
Here, except few frivolous character and some sensationalising media, no one else is claiming on the AWACS.


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## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> Aur deny kaun kar raha tha. !!!... anyway it's off topic. !!



It is off topic.. But then again.. Shuroo kisne kiya tha ??? 



Windjammer said:


> And when some members drag in the likes of *Sunny Deol* in a war debate, one wonders, if they understand the psyche of certain military topics .


 




Windjammer said:


> Should avoid cheap banter before you are donated another Kanji Varam for the dowry.


.. Phd in out of context off topic rants 





Windjammer said:


> Too bad, as much as you people have become accustomed to firing over other's shoulders, in essence, there is nothing for you to fulfil your wish list here, PAF, is not going to line up it's aircraft after every incident. !!!



I was asking about your comment discrediting all express tribune reports due to a single mis report in the past.. Questioning if that logic holds for posts of senior Pakistani members  who in past posted pictures of Indian companies and called them Pakistani software companies from Karanchi.. Should all their subsequent posts be also treated as rubbish


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## Bratva

Windjammer said:


> Dude, that was in full scale war with another country, which was making tall claims of destroying six PAF Mirages.
> *Here, except few frivolous character and some sensationalising media,* no one else is claiming on the AWACS.



Because PAF is not coming clean on this and these frivolous characters got their tip from someone inside KAMRA AB. So, until PAF makes "Official" announcement, people bound to get along with ones whose claims are based on sources who works in Kamra AB.


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## rohailmalhi

Vortex said:


> If it is true that all saab have destroyed, then despite beeing Pakistani, a proud Pakistani who stand always with our armed forces, i have just to say : Pakistan khatam ho jay to better hoye gha !
> 
> No more forceand will left inside me to defend my own country



Itne jaldi haar maan gaye kiya dost ............ So that mean our enemies are getting sucessful coz few of our countrymen have lost their hope altogether that they want to sacrifice everything for the lost hope.

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## Windjammer

karan.1970 said:


> It is off topic.. But then again.. Shuroo kisne kiya tha ???


*That's not difficult to conclude. *



karan.1970 said:


> Just like I remember one eminent Pakistani member  posting a picture of an Indian software company's shop floor as a picture of a Pakistani one..





> .. Phd in out of context off topic rants


Right down your ally.....isn't it. 




> I was asking about your comment discrediting all express tribune reports due to a single mis report in the past.. Questioning if that logic holds for posts of senior Pakistani members  who in past posted pictures of Indian companies and called them Pakistani software companies from Karanchi.. Should all their subsequent posts be also treated as rubbish



This is where you lose out, earlier in the thread, i posted copies of both news items (In Urdu), ironically it was the same reporter in both cases, and as for your repeated example, the IT, topic wasn't exactly my intuitive, was it, rather i merely copy pasted the article.


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## blain2

Vortex said:


> If it is true that all saab have destroyed, then despite beeing Pakistani, a proud Pakistani who stand always with our armed forces, i have just to say : Pakistan hatam ho jay to better hoye gha !
> 
> No more forceand will left inside me to defend my own country



You give up very easily..buck up my friend! ;-) 

Even if lost, material can be replaced.

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## Bratva

blain2 said:


> You give up very easily..buck up my friend! ;-)
> 
> Even if lost,* material can be replaced*.



If one has proper financial resources or he is not banned to purchase that material.


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## rohailmalhi

mafiya said:


> If one has proper financial resources or he is not banned to purchase that material.



More doors are opened if few are closed............ U never know where are u going to get the things from .

China , Brazil , South Africa , Ukraine , Sweden and alot more........... so u need no worry my friend.

Things are under control........

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## Bratva

rohailmalhi said:


> More doors are opened if few are closed............ U never know where are u going to get the things from .
> 
> China , Brazil , South Africa , Ukraine , Sweden and alot more........... so u need no worry my friend.
> 
> Things are under control........



Utopian thinking my friend.


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## indiatester

How often does PAF fly their AWACS? There would(should) be a round the clock schedule that would ensure continuous and redundant coverage of ones airspace.
If the aircraft are well, and are operating, people from around the airbases should see them.
If the aircraft are well and PAF is not flying them. I don't understand that logic.
If the aircraft are not well, buy more  Unless the logic is to get "replacement" for good aircraft


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## Vortex

rohailmalhi said:


> Itne jaldi haar maan gaye kiya dost ............ So that mean our enemies are getting sucessful coz few of our countrymen have lost their hope altogether that they want to sacrifice everything for the lost hope.


 


blain2 said:


> You give up very easily..buck up my friend! ;-)
> 
> Even if lost, material can be replaced.


 



yaaro, is it first time our forces shown us their mastering of their incompetency ? look also to our countrymen, how many lost life in Lahore and Karachi just this week ? all due to incompetency and greed... Many Pakistani lost their insannyat... How can Pakistan and Pakistanis survive in this hell ?

I'm not giving up just because we may have lost fex aircrafts, but as i'am following Defence.Pk, Pakdef, and pakistanidefence since the begenning of the 90's, i saw our decline, only our decline....nothing else.


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## Najam Khan

nuclearpak said:


> PAF personnel were with it.
> 
> And it has been delivered AFAIK.
> 
> Do we have 4 Saab 2000 or 5?
> 
> There is one with c/n 049 and serial number 10049 also said to be with PAF, although no picture of it anywhere. Was the order scrapped? Only pics of 10025, 10040, 10045 and J019 (formerly AP-OOI)
> 
> Second thing, as long as the aircraft is with Saab, and not delivered to PAF< they do not have PAF markings on it, and have a Saab logo on it, and the Swedish civilian registration.
> 
> 10045 had SE 45 (civilian swedish number), and in the following pic, a aircraft SE 049 is shown. It was supposed to have 10049 registration with PAF. What happened to it?
> 
> The induction ceremony picture is of SE-45 (10045), while J019, 10040 and 10025 are pictured with PAF. So, 049 acquisition scrapped?



I think it was delivered to PAF in late 2010/ early 2011. The rest of question are answered by Imran on the following thread.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...n-awacs-aew-cs-aircrafts-161.html#post2408357


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## Jango

Najam Khan said:


> I think it was delivered to PAF in late 2010/ early 2011. The rest of question are answered by Imran on the following thread.
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...n-awacs-aew-cs-aircrafts-161.html#post2408357



Those lines by IK are all over the net, but no picture of 10049 anywhere, nor any news. There were a couple of sites where it was said that it was scrapped.

So, if it is delivered, then we have 5 Saabs? 4 AWACS and one transport?


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## Najam Khan

nuclearpak said:


> Those lines by IK are all over the net, but no picture of 10049 anywhere, nor any news. There were a couple of sites where it was said that it was scrapped.
> 
> *So, if it is delivered, then we have 5 Saabs? 4 AWACS and one transport?*



Yes, I think so. Tempest II posted a link (on JF-17 main thread) of SIPRI. It had details of almost all major procurement by Pakistan. You need to look into that for further details.

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## Jango

> Pakistan has focused on building force multipliers in the last decade. Pakistan entered into the procurement of airborne early warning systems from Sweden and China. In 2005, Pakistan entered into a deal with Sweden for the purchase of 4 SAAB-2000 turboprop aircraft equipped with Erieye Airborne Early Warning and Control systems (AEW&C).



Pakistan - Modernisation of the PAF - Page 3 - GlobalDefence.net - Streitkräfte der Welt World's Armed Forces

Looks like fifth was scrapped. The defense minister, and minister for defense production both said at induction ceremonies that the other three will arrive later, no mention of fifth by any official. Only pic of fifth is of a SE 049, that too looks kind of photo-shopped.


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## Mav3rick

@Windjammer........is it possible that PAF allowed a couple of the AWACS to get damaged in order to get better ones from the US as replacement? It just occurred to me.

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## clmeta

Zardari can make it happen.


Mav3rick said:


> @Windjammer........is it possible that PAF allowed a couple of the AWACS to get damaged in order to get better ones from the US as replacement? It just occurred to me.


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## mylovepakistan

LOL!!!


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## deckingraj

Mav3rick said:


> @Windjammer........is it possible that PAF allowed a couple of the AWACS to get damaged in order to get better ones from the US as replacement? It just occurred to me.



What do you think PAF is?? Have some respect for a professional force buddy....this is no child's play...


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## wakapdf

Mav3rick said:


> @Windjammer........is it possible that PAF allowed a couple of the AWACS to get damaged in order to get better ones from the US as replacement? It just occurred to me.


 hahahaha, its like saying shoot yourself in the foot so you get a good nights rest at a hospital...

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## karan.1970

Windjammer said:


> This is where you lose out, earlier in the thread, i posted copies of both news items (In Urdu), ironically it was the same reporter in both cases, and as for your repeated example, the IT, topic wasn't exactly my intuitive, was it, rather i merely copy pasted the article.



Oh! Was that you who did the infamous use of the pictures of an Indian company from Bangalore and posted them as those of a software company from Lahore/Karanchi.. I always thought it was Riaz Haq...My Bad...

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

5 KM buffer zone should exist between Civilian traffic , housing and any military facility


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## VCheng

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> 5 KM buffer zone should exist between Civilian traffic , housing and any military facility



Okay, who is going to pay for all the houses and other real estate currently within those limits? Or are you proposing to have them all confiscated without recompense?


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## SEAL

No need to criticize media for mis-information its actually PAF fault and incompetence that they failed to protect the precious assets and ever after weeks there is no official press release so let the media do its job.

Attack on GHQ, Kamra and Mehran lol Pak Fauj Zindabad.


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## Hyperion

So, any final word on damage?


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## Safriz

i say Moat with crocs

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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> i say Moat with crocs


LOL.... while you're at it, why not a dragon as well?


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## blain2

fox said:


> No need to criticize media for mis-information its actually PAF fault and incompetence that they failed to protect the precious assets and ever after weeks there is no official press release so let the media do its job.
> 
> Attack on GHQ, Kamra and Mehran lol Pak Fauj Zindabad.



Attack on Camp Bastion should open up your eyes to the difficulties faced by defenders of such locations. Its not an easy job to defend a space against people who can easily blend in with the local population in locations where the civilian population has grown by leaps and bounds all around.

Our favourite pass-time as Pakistanis is to criticize others whether we have the facts in front of us or not. We rarely ever let go a chance to do so when it avails. In matters like these, I am all for assigning responsibility, but do realize that there is no such a thing as fool proof security against such threats. PNS Mehran was unprecedented. Others like Kamra are not, as such some level of preparations were in place that resulted in the killings of all the intruders, but with the initiative always with the militants, there is only so much that any security outfit can do.

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## blain2

indiatester said:


> How often does PAF fly their AWACS? There would(should) be a round the clock schedule that would ensure continuous and redundant coverage of ones airspace.
> If the aircraft are well, and are operating, people from around the airbases should see them.
> If the aircraft are well and PAF is not flying them. I don't understand that logic.
> If the aircraft are not well, buy more  Unless the logic is to get "replacement" for good aircraft




No country flies AWACS/AEW&C platforms round the clock unless active hostilities are taking place. The missions in peace times are planned as the threat perception evolves. This does not happen in the United States and it certainly does not happen in the NATO countries. Typically a combination of ground based radar assets and then Over The Horizon platforms are used in a complimentary manner to balance out the wear and tear and keep costs down.

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