# Pakistan Shows Interest In Denel's T5-52 Self-Propelled Howitzer: Display at IDEAS 2016



## Zarvan

Denel T5-52 self-propelled howitzer

Pakistan has shown interest in buying Denel’s T5-52 truck-mounted self-propelled howitzer that would be displayed at the IDEAS 2016, held from 22 November in Karachi, Pakistan.

It is speculated that Pakistan would buy T5-52 howitzer in the wake of India last week having approved a $737 million purchase of BAE Systems 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers from the US.

In 2008, the Pakistan Army had procured two SH-1 truck-mounted 155 mm howitzers from China for testing. However it is unclear if additional units had been ordered since.

Denel’s T5-52 presentation at IDEAS could mark the start of a concerted marketing and sales campaign for the system (and potentially its sibling systems) in Pakistan. If successful, it would mark the first open big-ticket sale between the South African defence giant and the Pakistani armed forces.

The Denel T5-52 is a 155 mm/52 calibre gun mounted to a Tatra T815-7 8×8 truck. The T5-52 can begin firing within one minute of the truck stopping. Its maximum range is 30 km with standard shells, 42.5 km with base bleed shells, and 55 km with velocity enhanced projectiles.

The full system weighs 38 tons and can reach a top speed of 85 km/h. In general, a truck-mounted artillery system can be used in rapid-deployment and asymmetrical combat scenarios (e.g. counterinsurgency).

Denel Group will also be exhibiting hardware and services from its other divisions, e.g. Denel Dynamics, at IDEAS. The Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan Navy had expressed interest in the A-Darter within-visual-range air-to-air missile and Umkhon to surface-to-air missile, respectively.

The M-777 deal between India and US would be signed within the next two to three weeks. The Pentagon’s Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LoA) to India is valid till November 20, but the same can be extended by another 10 to 15 days, if needed, Defense ministry officials were quoted as saying by Tehelka Thursday.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/17..._Howitzer__Display_at_IDEAS_2016#.WDLZQuZ95PY

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## holysmoker

It would be a nice move..


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sounds stupid... why buy 2 type of SPGs when you can standardise with one..

They already bought 92 SH-1s ... and now interest is shown in T5.

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## Path-Finder

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sounds stupid... why buy 2 type of SPGs when you can standardise with one..
> 
> They already bought 92 SH-1s ... and now interest is shown in T5.


so SH-1 is in service? its never been made clear if it passed the trials or not. 

india was set to buy this very gun mounted on tata chassis but the deal didn't go through. what if this gun is purchased and placed on a chassis of our liking?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Path-Finder said:


> so SH-1 is in service? its never been made clear if it passed the trials or not.









> india was set to buy this very gun mounted on tata chassis but the deal didn't go through. what if this gun is purchased and placed on a chassis of our liking?



Thats not an issue... the guns can be mounted on Yasoobs or the North Benz movers being produced by HIT.

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## Path-Finder

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 354016
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not an issue... the guns can be mounted on Yasoobs or the North Benz movers being produced by HIT.


I wonder possibly the reason is to use the Denel Gun with some special Ammo. Again that is just my thinking!

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## Tsar Bomba

Path-Finder said:


> I wonder possibly the reason is to use the Denel Gun with some special Ammo. Again that is just my thinking!


What special ammo u r thinking? Don't tell about micro mini nuclear warheads because that wpuld be consider a zealous stupidity to even think about it.
Next u may come up with. 30 nuclear round.


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## Path-Finder

Tsar Bomba said:


> What special ammo u r thinking? Don't tell about micro mini nuclear warheads because that wpuld be consider a zealous stupody to even think about it.
> Next u may come up with. 30 nuclear round.


why are you jumping down my throat? I am allowed to speak my mind and I did.


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## Sulman Badshah

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 354016
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not an issue... the guns can be mounted on Yasoobs or the North Benz movers being produced by HIT.


despite the multiple sources .. .We haven't seen not a single SH-1 in Pakistan yet (or SH1 is yet made to public) ...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sulman Badshah said:


> despite the multiple sources .. .We haven't seen not a single SH-1 in Pakistan yet (or SH1 is yet made to public) ...



Except the ones that were used for trial.. although even those were never confirmed by PA.. Neither did we see A-100 till years after its induction and so on..

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## Tsar Bomba

Path-Finder said:


> why are you jumping down my throat? I am allowed to speak my mind and I did.


Ok live with u r idiocy.


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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 354016
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not an issue... the guns can be mounted on Yasoobs or the North Benz movers being produced by HIT.


Sir Pakistan is already testing T5-52 and Serbian Artillery Gun one would be selected.



Tsar Bomba said:


> What special ammo u r thinking? Don't tell about micro mini nuclear warheads because that wpuld be consider a zealous stupidity to even think about it.
> Next u may come up with. 30 nuclear round.


He is talking about laser guided artillery rounds which we are using on LOC to take out Indian posts


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## Tsar Bomba

Zarvan said:


> Sir Pakistan is already testing T5-52 and Serbian Artillery Gun one would be selected.
> 
> 
> He is talking about laser guided artillery rounds which we are using on LOC to take out Indian posts


Not laser guided since mortars can't be fire straight like tanks or guns but we are using GPS based guidance system my dear defence expert.

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## Zarvan

Tsar Bomba said:


> Not laser guided since mortars can't be fire straight like tanks or gins but we are using GPS based guidance system my dear defence expert.


Yes he is referring to that


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## Tsar Bomba

Zarvan said:


> Yes he is referring to that


He is talking about ammo special ammo ask him what he meant for that.
Any ways we already have capability to retro fit kits to our existing systems but if P.A is showing interest there must be some good offer lets see.


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## Shiji

Tsar Bomba said:


> He is talking about ammo special ammo ask him what he meant for that.
> Any ways we already have capability to retro fit kits to our existing systems but if P.A is showing interest there must be some good offer lets see.


Krasnopol maybe? 
It's not bad operating different systems, all have their pros and cons. 
Heck we have been operating a mix of US, British, French, Russian, Chinese and even North Korean Arty pieces since the start! This would be a good induction if the interest is real.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Shiji said:


> Krasnopol maybe?
> It's not bad operating different systems, all have their pros and cons.
> Heck we have been operating a mix of US, British, French, Russian, Chinese and even North Korean Arty pieces since the start! This would be a good induction if the interest is real.


No russian,north korean,british or french system that i know of...

Its US,Chinese (russian) and Turkish and local.

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## Muhammad Omar

Why not Nora B-52 and G6 Rhino ???

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## Path-Finder

Tsar Bomba said:


> Ok live with u r idiocy.






Zarvan said:


> Yes he is referring to that


I am referring to possible GPS Guided Rounds. Not F#cking Mortar rounds can mortar rounds be fired from artillery?

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## Tsar Bomba

Path-Finder said:


> I am referring to possible GPS Guided Rounds. Not F#cking Mortar rounds can mortar rounds be fired from artillery?


Height of retard Pann and extremely suffering from comprehension problem.
@Zarvan 
Now tell me how can these kids learn when they are even not reading posts or may not able to understand simple English.


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## Patriotic Strategist

great gun,,, cant wait more to see in


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## Path-Finder

Tsar Bomba said:


> Height of retard Pann and extremely suffering from comprehension problem.
> @Zarvan
> Now tell me how can these kids learn when they are even not reading posts or may not able to understand simple English.


if you are going to be rude pr!ck then dont expect anything less!


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## Tsar Bomba

Path-Finder said:


> if you are going to be rude pr!ck then dont expect anything less!


Good for you keep it this attitude.


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## Path-Finder

Tsar Bomba said:


> Good for you keep it this attitude.


Got no attitude on my side, it needs containing from your side.


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## Zarvan

Path-Finder said:


> I am referring to possible GPS Guided Rounds. Not F#cking Mortar rounds can mortar rounds be fired from artillery?


Yes they can't be fired from Artillery what I am saying is Pakistan is using both GPS guided rounds of Artillery as well as in Mortars GPS Guided Mortars are being used. But of course Artillery rounds are fired from Artillery Guns and Mortards rounds are fired from there weapons.


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## Sinnerman108

If we run a query " * shows interest ... " 

Zarvan's name will be the topmost poster.

Indeed he has a treasure trove of " interesting" news.

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## Tsar Bomba

Sinnerman108 said:


> If we run a query " * shows interest ... "
> 
> Zarvan's name will be the topmost poster.
> 
> Indeed he has a treasure trove of " interesting" news.


From J-10 to SU-35 many things between even every thing which cause any damage to any one. Even if a satire magazine post about firecrackers Zarvan mian would post on PDF.

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## Path-Finder

Zarvan said:


> Yes they can't be fired from Artillery what I am saying is Pakistan is using both GPS guided rounds of Artillery as well as in Mortars GPS Guided Mortars are being used. But of course Artillery rounds are fired from Artillery Guns and Mortards rounds are fired from there weapons.


when I made the post on the previous page which got jumped upon by certain cretin. There is a GPS guided ammo made by a european country which possibly with no proof may need a certain type of gun to use. I don't have proof so I can't go around doing make belief about it. It is a possibility that it may be in the works or not!! Time will tell.


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## Zarvan

Path-Finder said:


> when I made the post on the previous page which got jumped upon by certain cretin. There is a GPS guided ammo made by a european country which possibly with no proof may need a certain type of gun to use. I don't have proof so I can't go around doing make belief about it. It is a possibility that it may be in the works or not!! Time will tell.


I am talking that we are using these kind of rounds either made by Turkey or China based on what Rafi posted few days ago about 2 Indian soldiers we killed through using these kind of rounds.


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## Gryphon

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Except the ones that were used for trial.. although even those were never confirmed by PA.. Neither did we see A-100 till years after its induction and so on..



In its 2014 data, SIPRI did report delivery of 36 (out of 90 ordered) SH-1's but the info. was removed in 2015 data for unknown reasons. Trials of Nora B-52 and Denel T5-52 also raise questions.


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## Shiji

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> No russian,north korean,british or french system that i know of...
> 
> Its US,Chinese (russian) and Turkish and local.


130 MM Gun NK/Russian
25 Pdr British
D30 Chinese
M198, M114 US
French was an old gun I forgot the name maybe 73 mm how or something
No Turkish and no local made. Wait how did you get the hint that we design local?
Edit forgot the Italian wonder 105 Pack.


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## Djinn

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sounds stupid... why buy 2 type of SPGs when you can standardise with one..
> 
> They already bought 92 SH-1s ... and now interest is shown in T5.


Sometimes these acquisitions are entirely of political nature. Being a South African customer now may pave way for future collaboration in different projects. All states do that no harm in getting a few of these if they will rope in some other equipment or tech later.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Shiji said:


> 130 MM Gun NK/Russian



Chinese built



> 25 Pdr British



Not in use.



> D30 Chinese



Yes



> M198, M114 US



rifht,



> French was an old gun I forgot the name maybe 73 mm how or something



What?


> No Turkish and no local made. Wait how did you get the hint that we design local?
> Edit forgot the Italian wonder 105 Pack.


Panter howitzers.

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## dilpakistani

lets see how it's pan out ... and by the by ... we must snap out of illusion that we have Sh-1 in service... it never got delivered.


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## AMG_12

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sounds stupid... why buy 2 type of SPGs when you can standardise with one..
> 
> They already bought 92 SH-1s ... and now interest is shown in T5.


You may confirm with your sources but I'm pretty sure we do not operate any. Not everything we evaluate/test is inducted. And Sipri Arms transfer database has been proved wrong on multiple occasions.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Game.Invade said:


> You may confirm with your sources but I'm pretty sure we do not operate any. Not everything we evaluate/test is inducted. And Sipri Arms transfer database has been proved wrong on multiple occasions.



Ive seen it personally...

The first time in 2008 when it was first sent to Arty School Nowshehra where my father was DS...

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## AMG_12

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Ive seen it personally...
> 
> The first time in 2008 when it was first sent to Arty School Nowshehra where my father was DS...


I think those few guns were purely for testing and evaluation. They underwent testing in Panu Aqil as well.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Game.Invade said:


> I think those few guns were purely for testing and evaluation. They underwent testing in Panu Aqil as well.



Arty School recieved 2 guns back than... everybody was excited that a massive gun was introduced..

Was the talk of the town..

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## AMG_12

We also do not operate any Turkish guns. The Panters too were sent back. Don't exactly know the reason(s) behind.


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## Shiji

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Chinese built
> 
> 
> 
> Not in use.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> rifht,
> 
> 
> 
> What?
> 
> Panter howitzers.


Difference between Chinese 130 and Korean/Russian 130s. We have both.
1. K/R 130 has horizontal sliding breech block Chinese 130 has vertical
2. Most importantly Chinese 130 fires on a Jack the other fires on wheels.
25 Pdr is still in use very much so both in training and operation requirments.
Panther was trialed and not selected it's general knowledge now.
And I have forgotten the French guns calibre.


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## CHACHA"G"

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Arty School recieved 2 guns back than... everybody was excited that a massive gun was introduced..
> 
> Was the talk of the town..



*SH1 was a good platform , Any reason U may know or your source know? (not inducted ) *



Game.Invade said:


> We also do not operate any Turkish guns. The Panters too were sent back. Don't exactly know the reason(s) behind.


*Sir last report was that Turkey devolving lighter Panthers, Maybe that's the reason . 

On a lighter note : Its dam good to see one more dam good interest , looking at dozens of them from last 2 decades.  @Zarvan , @Ulla *


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## khansaheeb

Rather than buy we should make.. Why not put the money into Pak ordinance and generate jobs and reduce dependency. We need positive spiralling of education, skills and manufacturing and not negative pay through your nose and it becomes junk over a few years. Hope no graft is motivating this.

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## AMG_12

CHACHA"G" said:


> *SH1 was a good platform , Any reason U may know or your source know? (not inducted ) *
> 
> 
> *Sir last report was that Turkey devolving lighter Panthers, Maybe that's the reason . *


Well you just don't evaluate and buy, that's not how it works in the military. 
Last year we received a few Chinese SP guns. They were gifted by an Arab country and were in storage at Malir Cantt. Don't know if they were restored or are still in storage.


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## kaonalpha

Nora B-52 is also there so, Best to do the arguments after 25th.

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## Indus Falcon

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Ive seen it personally...
> 
> The first time in 2008 when it was first sent to Arty School Nowshehra where my father was DS...


You should arrange a visit for some PDF members, and use them for target practice.



Muhammad Omar said:


> Why not Nora B-52 and G6 Rhino ???


If only PA could understand what a G6 is capable of.............

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## fatman17

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 354016
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not an issue... the guns can be mounted on Yasoobs or the North Benz movers being produced by HIT.



SH1 order was cancelled


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## Khafee

fatman17 said:


> SH1 order was cancelled


Why was it cancelled?

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## HRK

Tsar Bomba said:


> Ok live with u r *idiocy.*



plz.... *"let the hundreds flowers bloom" 

*

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## Path-Finder

HRK said:


> plz.... *"let the hundreds flowers bloom"
> *


???


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## war&peace

Path-Finder said:


> I wonder possibly the reason is to use the Denel Gun with some special Ammo. Again that is just my thinking!


Special rounds are for , as the name suggests, specialised tasks ...some have higher velocities and longer ranges, or for different type of targets like tanks, bunkers or buildings etc


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## Path-Finder

war&peace said:


> Special rounds are for , as the name suggests, specialised tasks ...some have higher velocities and longer ranges, or for different type of targets like tanks, bunkers or buildings etc


does GPS guided fall into these described categories? or is that not considered special?

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## war&peace

Path-Finder said:


> does GPS guided fall into these described categories? or is that not considered special?


I am not an expert in this field ..I need to study further about to be honest. But by going with common sense, I would say GPS would be considered special since it is not available in standard rounds.

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## Water Car Engineer

Path-Finder said:


> so SH-1 is in service? its never been made clear if it passed the trials or not.
> 
> *india was set to buy this very gun mounted on tata chassis but the deal didn't go through. what if this gun is purchased and placed on a chassis of our liking?*



The deal is still ongoing. Currently both are trialing.











TATA-Denel are fighting against Ashok Leyland/L&T with Nexter.

L&T with the Koreans won the tracked tender with the K9 Thunder.

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## HRK

Path-Finder said:


> ???



http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/226950.html

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## DESERT FIGHTER

fatman17 said:


> SH1 order was cancelled


Any reason?


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## Path-Finder

HRK said:


> http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/226950.html


Thank you.


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## denel

This is a G5 mated to a Tatra truck. Works but if mobility was a serious thing in terms of going all places - you need G6.


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## GoldenRatio1618

Muhammad Omar said:


> Why not Nora B-52 and G6 Rhino ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Nice look


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## tarrar

Pakistan should go for it, it will be a great move & our boys will be well equipped.

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## fatman17

India will throw a spanner in this if Pakistan opts for Denel.


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## mrrehan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sounds stupid... why buy 2 type of SPGs when you can standardise with one..
> 
> They already bought 92 SH-1s ... and now interest is shown in T5.



Do you know SH-1 has passed Army tests?



fatman17 said:


> India will throw a spanner in this if Pakistan opts for Denel.



What do you think sir we are only pushing them to trough spanner here?


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