# Banned Words on PDF



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Dear Members,

After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:

*Porkistan (or derivatives like Porkistani, Porki):*
Reason: Derogatory reference to Pakistan & Pakistanis

*Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)

*Madrassa Chaap:*
Reason: Derogatory reference for Muslims/Pakistanis.

*50 Cent Army:*
Reason: Derogatory term used for China/Chinese

*Pajeet:*
Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)

*Ghaati:*
Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)

*Jihadi (by non-Muslims):*
Reason: The word Jihad in Islam means 'to struggle' whereas Jihadi used as a derogatory reference to Muslims, conflated in contemporary culture with terrorists.

*Bangu , Bangler , Bangla lala land , Bongoli*
Reason: Derogatory terms used for Bangladeshis
*
*
If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.

Thanks

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## Pakistani Fighter

Sir plz include mullah, jihadi too. They are used as derogatory words for Muslims

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## WAJsal

I think there's no point in getting personal with anyone, debate in a respectable manner. 


AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> 
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)


Gangu dweller, Bharti scum is another slang used by members.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Sir plz include mullah, jihadi too. They are used as derogatory words for Muslims


I agree with banning the term Jihadi - it is used often to describe terrorists or as a derogatory reference to Muslims, and is a bastardization of the term Jihad in Islam which references a lot more than just a violent struggle

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## Malik Alpha

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Sir plz include mullah, jihadi too. They are used as derogatory words for Muslims


These are actually good words especially Jihadi just like Islamist which should be very Muslim.

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## Blacklight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:
> 
> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> 
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Pajeet:*
> 
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Ghaati:*
> 
> Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.
> 
> Thanks


How about you do the following:

1) Review this list, to include derogatory terms that are used against Pakistanis, Muslims, Arabs & Chinese. 

2) Lock this thread, and restrict it to admin staff only, OR keep updating the OP?

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Malik Alpha said:


> These are actually good words especially Jihadi just like Islamist which should be very Muslim.


It is the context in which it is used. Jihad mean's 'to struggle', whereas Jihadi is used nowadays as a derogatory reference for Muslims, and is often used to refer to terrorists.

Is the correct term Mujahid or Jihadi?

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## BL33D

Something positive. Will go a long way to make discussions better and not a slur-fest.

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## Blacklight

WAJsal said:


> I think there's no point in getting personal with anyone, debate in a respectable manner.
> 
> Gangu dweller, Bharti scum is another slang used by members.


They actually take pride in the river Ganges. So why do they get offended, I seriously dont understand.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Blacklight said:


> How about you do the following:
> 
> 1) Review this list, to include derogatory terms that are used against Pakistanis, Muslims, Arabs & Chinese.
> 
> 2) Lock this thread, and restrict it to admin staff only, OR keep updating the OP?


I would like to keep the thread open to get suggestions for any additional words.

I and the other moderators and admins can keep updating the OP as we determine that there are other words that could be banned.

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## Max

i don't agree with ban on word Jihadi. I don't have issue if someone call me Jihadi.

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## Side-Winder

Let's keep things civilized people! -- Hoping for everyone to comply

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Valar. said:


> - Madrassa Chaap (used by Indians for Pakistanis)
> - Barman Monkey and savages (used frequently by Bangladeshis for people of Myanmar)
> - Bongles (used by some for Bangladeshis)


@UKBengali
@Armchair
Or any other Bengali members
Is that correct?

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## xuxu1457

I haven't heard of any of them, and I don't know what they mean.
Is it a failure?

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## masterchief_mirza

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:
> 
> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> 
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Pajeet:*
> 
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Ghaati:*
> 
> Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Jihadi:
> *
> Reason: The word Jihad in Islam means 'to struggle' whereas Jihadi used as a derogatory reference to Muslims, conflated in contemporary culture with terrorists.
> 
> If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.
> 
> Thanks


Sorry sorry Sorry. What?

So if I wish to distinguish IVC descendants from Gangetic plains descendants, I can no longer do so? You can't ban all derivatives of "Gangu". Clearly its derivatives can be used in a descriptive manner. Likewise, "jihadi" can be used appropriately by Muslims and even plausibly by non-muslims.

Blanket banning is the error here. 

Cases should simply be reviewed on a case by case basis to determine true context, intonation and intent.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Max said:


> i don't agree with ban on word Jihadi. I don't have issue if someone call me Jihadi.


No issue with Pakistanis or Muslims calling each other Jihadi, much like there is no issue with Pakistanis calling each other Pakis. The problem is when non-Muslims use it for Muslims - then the usage is almost always meant as a slur, implying we're all terrorists.

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## masterchief_mirza

Max said:


> i don't agree with ban on word Jihadi. I don't have issue if someone call me Jihadi.


That's my point. CONTEXT matters for all the words mentioned here.

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## terry5

I never thought gangu as a slur but a term for people of the Ganges .
never used it once myself 

Coolie is another derogatory word, a English name for a servant/slave

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## Politico

I would support an infraction against any religious slur. Of particular concern to me personally is the use of the word "love Jihad" by certain members here and particularly Indian members including Muslim Indian members

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## pakpride00090

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:
> 
> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> 
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Madrassa Chaap:*
> 
> Reason: Derogatory reference for Muslims/Pakistanis.
> 
> *Pajeet:*
> 
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Ghaati:*
> 
> Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Jihadi (by non-Muslims):
> *
> Reason: The word Jihad in Islam means 'to struggle' whereas Jihadi used as a derogatory reference to Muslims, conflated in contemporary culture with terrorists.
> 
> If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.
> 
> Thanks



Moral policing is getting out of control. This is probably the only safe place where we can keep bharti garbage away and call them out on their shit. 

Good bye PDF ... You are soon going to turn into Quora / Reddit / FB , that is infested by bhartis..( I wanted to use G word but can't)


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

masterchief_mirza said:


> Clearly its derivatives can be used in a descriptive manner.


Could you give me some examples?


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## Politico

terry5 said:


> I never thought gangu as a slur but a term for people of the Ganges .
> never used it once myself
> 
> Coolie is another derogatory word, a English name for a servant/slave



The term Coolie is used by other races to describe all people from the sub-continent. Not used frequently anymore. Curry muncher, **** and Brownie etc have taken over. My personal preference for insulting sub-continentals is Brownie. I use that term frequently on my family members

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

pakpride00090 said:


> Moral policing is getting out of control. This is probably the only safe place where we can keep bharti garbage away and call them out on their shit.
> 
> Good bye PDF ... You are soon going to turn into Quora / Reddit / FB , that is infested by bhartis..( I wanted to use G word but can't)


You can still call them out on their shit, we're just asking that certain words that have acquired derogatory racial connotations not be used while calling them out on their shit.

Do yo really think that it is words like gangu that keep the Bharatis away from this forum?

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## UKBengali

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> @UKBengali
> @Armchair
> Or any other Bengali members
> Is that correct?




I use Barman "savages" as it is pertinent as regards their treatment of Rohingya and defending those actions.
Defending mass rape, killings and ethnic cleasing makes you a "savage" in my opinion
Any Barmans that are against the oppression of Rohingyas of course should not be called savages but yet to see any on this forum to my knowledge.

I have not heard anyone call Barmans "monkeys" in a long time on this forum.

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## pakpride00090

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> You can still call them out on their shit, we're just asking that certain words that have acquired derogatory racial connotations not be used while calling them out on their shit.
> 
> Do yo really think that it is words like gangu that keep the Bharatis away from this forum?



Bhartis will never go away.... You ban 10 today and next day 20 will show up..

You shouldn't have taken away our right to use all "words" ... Check out Indian defense forums... It is riddled with all kinds of slurs because it is their safe space... 

There are no bengalis / Pakistanis or other nationals over there... Bare dil hone ki wajah se this forum has become gangu infested and with the ban on certain words , expect more floods.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Politico said:


> I would support an infraction against any religious slur. Of particular concern to me personally is the use of the word "love Jihad" by certain members here and particularly Indian members including Muslim Indian members


It would depend on context. If the term is being used to reference the Hindutva propaganda & hate-mongering campaign against Muslims (where they accuse Muslims of engaging in Love Jihad) it's acceptable.

Were a non-Muslim to use it for a Muslim or to describe Muslims, it is unacceptable.

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## Death Professor

Feels like there is a bit of bias here. Don't think any Pakistani was really offended by Jihadi or madrassa chap. G and P words are such powerful words compared to Jihadi or Madrassa chap. I protest against this decision, it's an un-even trade. 

@El Sidd @Areesh Heads up

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Death Professor said:


> Feels like there is a bit of bias here. Don't think any Pakistani was really offended by Jihadi or madrassa chap. G and P words are such powerful words compared to Jihadi or Madrassa chap. I protest against this decision, it's an un-even trade.
> 
> @El Sidd @Areesh Heads up


Not looking forward to their arrival in this thread ...

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## Politico

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> It would depend on context. If the term is being used to reference the Hindutva propaganda & hate-mongering campaign against Muslims (where they accuse Muslims of engaging in Love Jihad) it's acceptable.
> 
> Were a non-Muslim to use it for a Muslim or to describe Muslims, it is unacceptable.



Unfortunately it is used as a joke on this forum, especially by certain Indian members. To me Jihad is extremely personal and using the term to mock or demonize (even by a Muslim) is simply unacceptable

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## PakistaniJunior

pakpride00090 said:


> Bhartis will never go away.... You ban 10 today and next day 20 will show up..
> 
> You shouldn't have taken away our right to use all "words" ... Check out Indian defense forums... It is riddled with all kinds of slurs because it is their safe space...
> 
> There are no bengalis / Pakistanis or other nationals over there... Bare dil hone ki wajah se this forum has become gangu infested and with the ban on certain words , expect more floods.



It hasn't become very infested as you claim though. If some Radical Indian tries to step out of line too much, often time there are enough opposing members to put them in their place. Call them out all you want, but i must admit that the use of derogatory racial insults should be kept at bay.

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## Jungibaaz

pakpride00090 said:


> Moral policing is getting out of control. This is probably the only safe place where we can keep bharti garbage away and call them out on their shit.
> 
> Good bye PDF ... You are soon going to turn into Quora / Reddit / FB , that is infested by bhartis..( I wanted to use G word but can't)



I think you would look at this differently if you'd seen the moderation system from the inside. Mods are actually quite lenient here given that we get to know members on a name basis, and we can see that any given member has thousands of posts.

While this is a Pakistani forum, and will always be, Indian and other nationalities should be welcome here. We have plenty of quality posters from among them here too, and the basic need for civility has to be accommodated. We all call Indians out on things we know they're wrong on, but it should be done without resorting to low quality insults and trolling.

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## pakpride00090

Death Professor said:


> Feels like there is a bit of bias here. Don't think any Pakistani was really offended by Jihadi or madrassa chap. G and P words are such powerful words compared to Jihadi or Madrassa chap. I protest against this decision, it's an un-even trade.
> 
> @El Sidd @Areesh Heads up



We wear the words " Jihadi " Islamist " and " mardarshacahap " as badge of honor...

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## xyx007

what about using word randian or Injun during heated debt with RSS goons.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

pakpride00090 said:


> Bhartis will never go away.... You ban 10 today and next day 20 will show up..
> 
> You shouldn't have taken away our right to use all "words" ... Check out Indian defense forums... It is riddled with all kinds of slurs because it is their safe space...
> 
> There are no bengalis / Pakistanis or other nationals over there... Bare dil hone ki wajah se this forum has become gangu infested and with the ban on certain words , expect more floods.


Do we want to descend to their level and be like them or can we at least try to take the higher ground?

Isn't it more inline with Islamic teachings to refrain from racial slurs and derogatory comments, even if they are the enemy?

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## Joe Shearer

terry5 said:


> I never thought gangu as a slur but a term for people of the Ganges .
> never used it once myself
> 
> Coolie is another derogatory word, a English name for a servant/slave


 
Actually 'Gangu' does occur in colloquial Hindi, in one particular expression that is the equivalent of the Moon and sixpence. It is "Kahaan Raja Bhoj kahaan Gangu Teli". The person who brought it into PDF (I don't think it is much used elsewhere) was that fearsome person Indus Pakistan.

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## pakpride00090

PakistaniJunior said:


> It hasn't become very infested as you claim though. If some Radical Indian tries to step out of line too much, often time there are enough opposing members to put them in their place. Call them out all you want, but i must admit that the use of derogatory racial insults should be kept at bay.


Thanks to Waz and some other mods... A huge wave of bans were issued in the past 6 months which led to some return of the sanity..But I am sure , with this lenient attitude ,they will be back.

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## Joe Shearer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> You can still call them out on their shit, we're just asking that certain words that have acquired derogatory racial connotations not be used while calling them out on their shit.
> 
> Do yo really think that it is words like gangu that keep the Bharatis away from this forum?



If you permit, I would - some day, after prior notice to you offline - demonstrate how to call someone out without using a single term of abuse.

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## Indus Pakistan

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Sir plz include mullah, jihadi too. They are used as derogatory words for Muslims


Do you agree with following to be also banned -


Westoxified
Libtards
@AgNoStiC MuSliM Please read above. And if you ban gang*desh do you also intend to ban


porkistan

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## Joe Shearer

pakpride00090 said:


> Thanks to Waz and some other mods... A huge wave of bans were issued in the past 6 months which led to some return of the sanity..But I am sure , with this lenient attitude ,they will be back.



Bullshit.

Now there's a team guarding the place. The reaction time is breath-taking.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Joe Shearer said:


> Actually 'Gangu' does occur in colloquial Hindi, in one particular expression that is the equivalent of the Moon and sixpence. It is "Kahaan Raja Bhoj kahaan Gangu Teli". The person who brought it into PDF (I don't think it is much used elsewhere) was that fearsome person Indus Pakistan.


Are you saying that Gangu, as a racial slur, was born on PDF?!


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## Jungibaaz

pakpride00090 said:


> Check out Indian defense forums... It is riddled with all kinds of slurs because it is their safe space...
> 
> There are no bengalis / Pakistanis or other nationals over there... Bare dil hone ki wajah se this forum has become gangu infested and with the ban on certain words , expect more floods.



This is my point exactly, a few of them killed their own forums by not giving opposing members enough space to debate. And a lack of civility or too much hostility against 'foreign' members drives them away in droves. More generally too, high quality posters and professional members are also driven away by this sort of atmosphere. IMO, this in particular is why PDF has been so successful, and this is what those other forums failed to do.

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## Joe Shearer

Indus Pakistan said:


> Do you agree with following to be also banned -
> 
> 
> Westoxified
> Libtards
> @AgNoStiC MuSliM Please read above. And if you ban gang*desh do you also intend to ban
> 
> 
> porkistan



HEY! YOU'RE BACK! I JUST REFERRED TO YOU IN REVERENTIAL LATE-LAMENTED TONES!!

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## Indus Pakistan

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Or any other Bengali members


I hope you don't ban -


Banga
Ganga

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## Death Professor

Jungibaaz said:


> low quality insults



I disagree, Pajeet might be of low quality(but thats only because I am not learned enough), but Gangu nopes. It has historical, geographical and cultural connotations.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

pakpride00090 said:


> Thanks to Waz and some other mods... A huge wave of bans were issued in the past 6 months which led to some return of the sanity..But I am sure , with this lenient attitude ,they will be back.


Banning certain words has nothing to do with our overall moderating approach/policies. They will remain the same.


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## Armchair

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> @UKBengali
> @Armchair
> Or any other Bengali members
> Is that correct?



I've no idea. I've never heard any of them before. Could be something different communities of Bangladeshis say in the UK. 

I once was playing football in Islamabad, next to the Supermarket, when two guys from opposing teams started swearing at each other and fighting. At one point, one guy went:
"tu bangali hei"
The other replied "nehi tu bangali hei"

and I was like, wait a minute, I am bengali, wtf.

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## Joe Shearer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Are you saying that Gangu, as a racial slur, was born on PDF?!



To my very great surprise, I just saw @Indus Pakistan back, posting on this thread. Ask him. I think he invented it.

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## Counter-Errorist

The fact that slurs targeted towards Pakistanis (P@ki, Porki, Porkistan) are not included in here says a lot about where this forum is headed. @Blacklight

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## Indus Pakistan

Joe Shearer said:


> YOU'RE BACK!


What is back is just a moving target you see. It will soon be gone again. I have shorter life expectancy on PDF than a Iraqi conscript facing American heli-gunships. So I would not bother with 'welcome' anymore.

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## Joe Shearer

Indus Pakistan said:


> What is back is just a moving target you see. It will soon be gone again. I have shorter life expectancy on PDF than a Iraqi conscript facing American heli-gunships. So I would not bother with 'welcome' anymore.



OH NO.

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## Indus Pakistan

Joe Shearer said:


> To my very great surprise, I just saw @Indus Pakistan back, posting on this thread. Ask him. I think he invented it.


Yes indeed it was. It was direct reaction to the oft repeated -


Pak*s
Porkistan
etc


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## Blacklight

Counter-Errorist said:


> The fact that slurs targeted towards Pakistanis (P@ki, Porki, Porkistan) are not included in here says a lot about where this forum is headed. @Blacklight


You have to give it to Khafee, doesn't give a damn about ratings, he kicks them where it hurts.

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## Indus Pakistan

Counter-Errorist said:


> The fact that slurs targeted towards Pakistanis (P@ki, Porki, Porkistan) are not included in here says a lot about where this forum is headed. @Blacklight


Interesting.

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## Jungibaaz

Death Professor said:


> I disagree, Pajeet might be of low quality(but thats only because I am not learned enough), but Gangu nopes. It has historical, geographical and cultural connotations.



'Gangu' might well be less egregious sounding, but it's still empty rhetoric used in an insulting or demeaning way. It contributes nothing to the forum except making the place a little bit more hostile. Take the equivalent slurs I've seen of Pakistanis on Indian forums, if they had moderated their forums to be less hostile, I might have stuck around and debated with a few of the knowledgeable members there. Instead I remember leaving them in disgust because of the hostile atmosphere, that's the last thing we want in PDF.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Indus Pakistan said:


> Do you agree with following to be also banned -
> 
> 
> Westoxified
> Libtards
> @AgNoStiC MuSliM Please read above. And if you ban gang*desh do you also intend to ban
> 
> 
> porkistan


Absolute Yes on Porkistan. I am surprised that hasn't come up before.

Westoxified - you'll have to explain.

Libtards, Liberandus ... I was thinking about that earlier (I've used those words as well).
Afghandus ... (another word I'm guilty of having used)

On the political side, we have Youthias & Patwaris - the interesting thing there is that Pakistani liberals, who typically are the first ones to start jumping up and down over some perceived derogatory reference, have played a major role in popularizing the word Youthia as a derogatory reference to PTI supporters.

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## Counter-Errorist

Blacklight said:


> You have to give it to Khafee, doesn't give a damn about ratings, he kicks them where it hurts.


Miss that guy

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## Joe Shearer

Indus Pakistan said:


> Yes indeed it was. It was direct reaction to the oft repeated -
> 
> 
> Pak*s
> Porkistan
> etc



@AgNoStiC MuSliM 



I rest my case. It would have to be that pungent tongue, that sometimes seemed to stretch out 17 feet to lash someone. What a treat to watch.

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## Jungibaaz

Counter-Errorist said:


> The fact that slurs targeted towards Pakistanis (P@ki, Porki, Porkistan) are not included in here says a lot about where this forum is headed. @Blacklight



They should be stated, but I can assure you. We in management have never let them slide. I am 100% certain that any time me or other mod came across those slurs, they were removed and action against member was taken too. 

I think OP hasn't mentioned them because they are already strictly banned by default, but adding them to the list might be pertinent to assuage you of any concerns. @AgNoStiC MuSliM

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Armchair said:


> I've no idea. I've never heard any of them before. Could be something different communities of Bangladeshis say in the UK.
> 
> I once was playing football in Islamabad, next to the Supermarket, when two guys from opposing teams started swearing at each other and fighting. At one point, one guy went:
> "tu bangali hei"
> The other replied "nehi tu bangali hei"
> 
> and I was like, wait a minute, I am bengali, wtf.

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## Joe Shearer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Absolute Yes on Porkistan. I am surprised that hasn't come up before.
> 
> Westoxified - you'll have to explain.
> 
> Libtards, Liberandus ... I was thinking about that earlier (I've used those words as well).
> Afghandus ... (another word I'm guilty of having used)
> 
> On the political side, we have Youthias & Patwaris - the interesting thing there is that Pakistani liberals, who typically are the first ones to start jumping up and down over some perceived derogatory reference, have played a major role in popularizing the word Youthia as a derogatory reference to PTI supporters.



Oooh! That word 'youthia' is RHR's favourite.


----------



## TruthSeeker

AAwww, damn!! Please give me a politically correct term for a terriorist who kills people because he thinks they are either non-Muslims or insufficiently devout Muslims. How about Geehadi?


----------



## grey boy 2

Sir, "50 cents army" was a announced "banned terms" by @WebMaster, does it still stand?
We Chinese members have been attacked by such insults on a daily basis, thanks

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Counter-Errorist said:


> The fact that slurs targeted towards Pakistanis (P@ki, Porki, Porkistan) are not included in here says a lot about where this forum is headed. @Blacklight


Added to the top of the list.

*Please, everyone, instead of getting upset that certain words that are offensive to Pakistanis aren't explicitly included, bring them up to us. We left the thread open for a reason, so you could give us your feedback and highlight things we may have overlooked.*



TruthSeeker said:


> AAwww, damn!! Please give me a politically correct term for a terriorist who kills people because he thinks they are either non-Muslims or insufficiently devout Muslims. How about Geehadi?


How about just the word 'terrorist' to describe someone who kills non-combatants for a political objective?

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## Indus Pakistan

@AgNoStiC MuSliM the reason why PDF has gone to the gutter is NOT because of some pejorative terms. Terms don't kill anything. However what has killed this forum, indeed emasculated it is the forum becoming hostahe to a narrow clique. The killing of open thought, the aversion to ideas many can't handle is what killed this forum. You habe turned it into a echo chamber. Free thought is dead here. 

Most of the TT's here just re-hash the pulp for the masses. No originalty. Just repeat the peddled mantras. Sheep following the sheep.

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## padamchen

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:
> 
> *Porkistan (or derivatives like Porkistani, Porki):
> *
> Reason: Derogatory reference to Pakistan & Pakistanis
> 
> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> 
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Madrassa Chaap:*
> 
> Reason: Derogatory reference for Muslims/Pakistanis.
> 
> *Pajeet:*
> 
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Ghaati:*
> 
> Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Jihadi (by non-Muslims):
> *
> Reason: The word Jihad in Islam means 'to struggle' whereas Jihadi used as a derogatory reference to Muslims, conflated in contemporary culture with terrorists.
> 
> If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.
> 
> Thanks



Wow!

Maharashtra got its own ban word among two nations and religions!

@TheGreatMaratha @Nilu Pule

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## Joe Shearer

Jungibaaz said:


> 'Gangu' might well be less egregious sounding, but it's still empty rhetoric used in an insulting or demeaning way. It contributes nothing to the forum except making the place a little bit more hostile. Take the equivalent slurs I've seen of Pakistanis on Indian forums, if they had moderated their forums to be less hostile, I might have stuck around and debated with a few of the knowledgeable members there. Instead I remember leaving them in disgust because of the hostile atmosphere, that's the last thing we want in PDF.



Hostile atmosphere in those?
TELL ME ABOUT IT.
Even my friends' forum. It's not the admin. staff; it's the members, and the admin. are afraid to sit on their heads for fear of losing momentum and memberships.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Indus Pakistan said:


> The killing of open thought, the aversion to ideas many can't handle is what killed this forum.


What kind of open thought has been killed and what kinds of ideas are we averse to?

Can these open thoughts and ideas not be conveyed without the use of a handful of words?

And we're not saying that banning these words is going to bring about some major reversal in the direction of the forum, it's just a small step towards making discourse a little bit more civil on the site.


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## Death Professor

Jungibaaz said:


> I might have stuck around and debated with a few of the knowledgeable members there. Instead I remember leaving them in disgust because of the hostile atmosphere, that's the last thing we want in PDF.



haha, you are worrying about Indian population on this forum? That's a mistake you are making. You are assuming they are anything like you and me. They are not. There population won't decrease a bit by these kind of words, their movies are more vulgar and abusive than anything on this forum. Civility and decency are only reserved for civil and decent people and sad to say, majority of indians don't have it in them.

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## Indus Pakistan

Original thought, out of box ideas, eccentric POVs, path less travelled, unpopular ideas are now frowned on. This is what will kill PDF. Not offensive words. if Rehmat Ali who came up with the name for Pakistan was alive today and posted his ideas about 'PAKSTAN' from Cambridge, UK he would be banned/booed as 'westoxified libtard'.

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## El Sidd

Death Professor said:


> Feels like there is a bit of bias here. Don't think any Pakistani was really offended by Jihadi or madrassa chap. G and P words are such powerful words compared to Jihadi or Madrassa chap. I protest against this decision, it's an un-even trade.
> 
> @El Sidd @Areesh Heads up



I hope the new rules help spread the soft image of India and Iran further.

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## ChennaiDude

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:
> 
> *Porkistan (or derivatives like Porkistani, Porki):
> *
> Reason: Derogatory reference to Pakistan & Pakistanis
> 
> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> 
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Madrassa Chaap:*
> 
> Reason: Derogatory reference for Muslims/Pakistanis.
> 
> *Pajeet:*
> 
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Ghaati:*
> 
> Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Jihadi (by non-Muslims):
> *
> Reason: The word Jihad in Islam means 'to struggle' whereas Jihadi used as a derogatory reference to Muslims, conflated in contemporary culture with terrorists.
> 
> If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.
> 
> Thanks


How about not referring to Army people as terrorists and rejoicing their death- If only people could understand what it takes for these chaps to serve on the front-lines?-Being a defense forum, thats the least that is expected.

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## Joe Shearer

ChennaiDude said:


> How about not referring to Army people as terrorists and rejoicing their death- If only people could understand what it takes for these chaps to serve on the front-lines?-Being a defense forum, thats the least that is expected.



Personally, I think this is a critical item - FOR BOTH SIDES. I would take a dim view of any Indian that denigrated the officers and other ranks of another armed force; THAT IS NOT OUR TRADITION.



Death Professor said:


> haha, you are worrying about Indian population on this forum? That's a mistake you are making. You are assuming they are anything like you and me. They are not. There population won't decrease a bit by these kind of words, their movies are more vulgar and abusive than anything on this forum. Civility and decency are only reserved for civil and decent people and sad to say, majority of indians don't have it in them.



<sigh>

Can someone point out a suitable spot from which to hang this rope I've got with me?

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## Raghav_101

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Added to the top of the list.
> 
> *Please, everyone, instead of getting upset that certain words that are offensive to Pakistanis aren't explicitly included, bring them up to us. We left the thread open for a reason, so you could give us your feedback and highlight things we may have overlooked.*
> 
> 
> How about just the word 'terrorist' to describe someone who kills non-combatants for a political objective?


Sir what are your thoughts on some "veteran" poster here using foul language against a member and the member getting his post deleted even when he replied in non abusive language and getting a warning ?



ChennaiDude said:


> How about not referring to Army people as terrorists and rejoicing their death- If only people could understand what it takes for these chaps to serve on the front-lines?-Being a defense forum, thats the least that is expected.




Open the thread about death of an Indian Colonel and read comments by few pakistani posters.


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## ChennaiDude

Joe Shearer said:


> Personally, I think this is a critical item - FOR BOTH SIDES. I would take a dim view of any Indian that denigrated the officers and other ranks of another armed force; THAT IS NOT OUR TRADITION.


Yes includes Indian as well as any other nation- The armed forces of any nation deserves our respect-No matter what.


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## padamchen

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Are you saying that Gangu, as a racial slur, was born on PDF?!



Yes.

It's the only "invention" of PDF that actually went viral across the internet and has been seen being used elsewhere by totally non PDF connected folk.

@Indus Pakistan 

Borne out of your UK level near zero Hindi/Urdu, take a bow man!

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## Death Professor

Joe Shearer said:


> <sigh>
> 
> Can someone point out a suitable spot from which to hang this rope I've got with me?



Why use a rope? just wait some time... Time is strange thing it only passes...


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## pakpride00090

Joe Shearer said:


> Personally, I think this is a critical item - FOR BOTH SIDES. I would take a dim view of any Indian that denigrated the officers and other ranks of another armed force; THAT IS NOT OUR TRADITION.
> 
> 
> 
> <sigh>
> 
> Can someone point out a suitable spot from which to hang this rope I've got with me?



Your tradition is to occupy lands and subjugate populations which don't want to be with you... 

Your Army is a occupying force and will always be equivalent to terrorists because that is what your boys are doing over there.

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## TheGreatMaratha

padamchen said:


> Wow!
> 
> Maharashtra got its own ban word among two nations and religions!
> 
> @TheGreatMaratha @Nilu Pule


Actually, no one used that word except the same person with 2 accounts. You know who I'm talking about.

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## jamahir

Politico said:


> I would support an infraction against any religious slur. Of particular concern to me personally is the use of the word "love Jihad" by certain members here and particularly Indian members including Muslim Indian members



Are you talking about me ?

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## WAJsal

grey boy 2 said:


> Sir, "50 cents army" was a announced "banned terms" by @WebMaster, does it still stand?
> We Chinese members have been attacked by such insults on a daily basis, thanks


Yes they are banned and we're working to keep the Chinese section clean, we wish our old chinese mods were still around but I assure you we dont tolerate any insults or slurs against Chinese members, just be sure to report the post.

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## Politico

jamahir said:


> Are you talking about me ?



Gosh. You're not the only Indian Muslim member here 

No was not referring to you

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## ChennaiDude

Raghav_101 said:


> Open the thread about death of an Indian Colonel and read comments by few pakistani posters.


Thats what I am saying- Indian or Pakistan colonel or of any nation deserves the respect- Two wrongs dont make it right!- (I am not going to comment on comments that were made by nasty, uncivilized things)


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## TheGreatMaratha

I highly appreciate the mods for taking this step. Definitely a step in the right direction.


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## Reichsmarschall

ChennaiDude said:


> How about not referring to Army people as terrorists and rejoicing their death- If only people could understand what it takes for these chaps to serve on the front-lines?-Being a defense forum, thats the least that is expected.


Yeah, killing non combatants and raping little girls must be taking hard toll on those "chaps", no?
Here's a deal tell them to stop committing war crimes and abide by Geneva convention and we'd stop using word T word when referring to them.

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## WAJsal

Counter-Errorist said:


> The fact that slurs targeted towards Pakistanis (P@ki, Porki, Porkistan) are not included in here says a lot about where this forum is headed. @Blacklight


These slurs are already banned, been so for many years now. If you see anyone using them be sure to report.

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## Indus Pakistan

padamchen said:


> Borne out of your UK level near zero Hindi/Urdu, take a bow man!


It's a simple portmentau or blending of two words. A apt summary of 70% of India I thought.


Ganga [river]
Hindu [religion]

You can even use the Hind-oo suffix making 'Gangoo'.

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## Death Professor

ChennaiDude said:


> How about not referring to Army people as terrorists and rejoicing their death- If only people could understand what it takes for these chaps to serve on the front-lines?-Being a defense forum, thats the least that is expected.



When a group of people has occupied a piece of land, and the inhabitants of that land are opposed of that occupation, then that group is not called "Army people", that group is called terrorist army. Yes if only people could understand what it takes for these chaps to serve on front lines for THEIR PEOPLE, RELIGION AND THEIR COMMUNITY? There is clear difference between a martyr who is received by thousands of his people and a ___ who is given some official reward, with only his poor family to cry on his death.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

ChennaiDude said:


> How about not referring to Army people as terrorists and rejoicing their death- If only people could understand what it takes for these chaps to serve on the front-lines?-Being a defense forum, thats the least that is expected.


If Indian members agree to support the right of Kashmiris to choose between India, Pakistan & Independence in a UN held plebiscite (in principle), sure.

Till then, it’s still an occupation and non-combatants are being killed, tortured & maimed for political purposes by Indian security forces. If we call militants who attack non-combatants terrorists, then why not an occupying military force?

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## doorstar

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Is the correct term Mujahid or Jihadi?


Mujahid


AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I would like to keep the thread open to get suggestions for any additional words.


but no doubt words and phrases used against Arabs, Britons and Americans are perfectly halal. bharati and bengali sensitivities must be protected since both are the bestest friend of Pakistan

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## ChennaiDude

Reichsmarschall said:


> Yeah, killing non combatants and raping little girls must be taking hard toll on those "chaps", no?
> Here's a deal tell them to stop committing war crimes and abide by Geneva convention and we'd stop using word T word when referring to them.


Thank you for your kind words and your opinions- Like I said-its your forum do what you want-I was responding to the OP as he had requested the same.



Death Professor said:


> When a group of people has occupied a piece of land, and the inhabitants of that land are opposed of that occupation, then that group is not called "Army people", that group is called terrorist army. Yes if only people could understand what it takes for these chaps to serve on front lines for THEIR PEOPLE, RELIGION AND THEIR COMMUNITY? There is clear difference between a martyr who is received by thousands of his people and a ___ who is given some official reward, with only his poor family to cry on his death.



Thank you for your kind words and your opinions- Like I said-its your forum do what you want-I was responding to the OP as he had requested the same.


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## JackTheRipper

*BSDK* word is used by *Indians*, means *Bhosdike*

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

doorstar said:


> but no doubt word and phrases used against Arabs, Britons and Americans are perfectly halal. but bharati and bengali sensitivities must be protected since both are the bestest friend of Pakistan


Not at all. The thread is open for suggestions, I said as much in my OP didn’t I?


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## padamchen

@AgNoStiC MuSliM I regularly make a search for keyword "Parsi" just to see if there's anything of interest I can engage on. Unfortunately in the past I pissed someone/s off bad enough to force him/her to create offensive IDs using that same term. All of them are banned, BUT the rub is that they still exist in pink and appear on the right hand column of the browzer in the results. Could you help by removing them permanently please?

Posting a screenshot below that is self explanatory:

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## ChennaiDude

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If Indian members agree to support the right of Kashmiris to choose between India, Pakistan & Independence in a UN held plebiscite (in principle), sure.
> 
> Till then, it’s still an occupation and non-combatants are being killed, tortured & maimed for political purposes by Indian security forces. If we call militants who attack non-combatants terrorists, then why not an occupying military force?


Go ahead and call these brave men/women what you may (Just pointed out that it was a defense forum)- I cant speak for all Indians here-I do support "UN held plebiscite for Kashmir"- The whole of Kashmir and not leaving out bits and pieces and also meeting all the standards set forth within the framework, no speculation -blah blah blah- Deal!


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## terry5

Politico said:


> The term Coolie is used by other races to describe all people from the sub-continent. Not used frequently anymore. Curry muncher, **** and Brownie etc have taken over. My personal preference for insulting sub-continentals is Brownie. I use that term frequently on my family members



Don’t like the word hate being called it . it’s an offence here in Jamaica .
Guyanese embrace the word lol but Guyanese are different jungle people .
Everyone is called Indian here lol wait for a taxi ..... Indian come here ..... go tax office ....how can I help you Indian lol someone comes visit you who you don’t know first word is .... hey Indian .. drives the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis mad

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## Dil_Pakistan

I don't know if following words are banned or not but i suggest kindly add them too. Maybe all are not used here but i have seen the trolls use these terms elsewhere on social media:
Badu(s)
Camel ... drinker
Youthiya
Pinkie /Peerni
Patwari (or you can spare this. not too bad/offensive a word )

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## maverick1977

please do not ban

Bhootni day ae 
chawal
kanjar
bhosnait kay .. 
wet lunghis


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## doorstar

ChennaiDude said:


> Like I said-its your forum do what you want


if that wer true would the likes of joe the bengali white gentleman and his new sidekick nilgiri be allowed to constantly wipe the floor with Pakistan and Pakistan-flag displayers? in one post you see them flattering/fellating some senior mod, in another you will see joe using the head of a junior as a mop, yet in another you will see him slandering Pakistan

BTW. it is also very very likely the joe inglish is gonna be made a moderator of upcoming sub-forum dedicated to durga mata i.e bharatvarsh

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## Xestan

Appreciated. Can we also add derogatory remarks used for people who hold secular and liberal views?

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## padamchen

doorstar said:


> if that wer true would the likes of joe the bengali white gentleman and his new sidekick nilgiri be allowed to constantly wipe the floor with Pakistan and Pakistan-flag displayers?
> 
> BTW. it is also very very likely the joe inglish is gonna be made a moderator of upcoming sub-forum dedicated to durga mata i.e baratvarsh



No he's not.

They want Indians to come back.

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## doorstar

padamchen said:


> No he's not.
> 
> They want Indians to come back.


 you mean to placate the angry Alexa? even though I have seen a senior mod make the offer to his highness, you could be right.


----------



## PakFactor

Xestan said:


> Appreciated. Can we also add derogatory remarks used for people who hold secular and liberal views?



secular don’t mind, but liberals need a trashing.

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## jamahir

Politico said:


> Gosh. You're not the only Indian Muslim member here
> 
> No was not referring to you



Well, I have used it on two or three occasions. Do you as a woman object to it ? If so why ?


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

JackTheRipper said:


> Bhosdike


replace d with r

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## padamchen

doorstar said:


> you mean to placate the angry Alexa? even though I have seen a senior mod make the offer to his highness, you could be right.



Yup I was there.

Let's see.


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## Mr.Cringeworth

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> *Pajeet:*
> 
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)


Lol dude i get the feeling you're low key roasting them,

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## Politico

padamchen said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM I regularly make a search for keyword "Parsi" just to see if there's anything of interest I can engage on. Unfortunately in the past I pissed someone/s off bad enough to force him/her to create offensive IDs using that same term. All of them are banned, BUT the rub is that they still exist in pink and appear on the right hand column of the browzer in the results. Could you help by removing them permanently please?
> 
> Posting a screenshot below that is self explanatory:
> 
> View attachment 630800



Do you believe that those profiles were directed against you ?


----------



## padamchen

Mr.Cringeworth said:


> Lol dude i get the feeling you're low key roasting them,



I got the same feeling. He's human.

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## Politico

jamahir said:


> Well, I have used it on two or three occasions. Do you as a woman object to it ? If so why ?



The term Jihad when read in Islamic terms is so special. The west bastardized it. Do we as Muslims really need to help them further ?

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## padamchen

Politico said:


> Do you believe that those profiles were directed against you ?



All of them. Lol

I was there ... those were good days.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

ChennaiDude said:


> Go ahead and call these brave men/women what you may (Just pointed out that it was a defense forum)- I cant speak for all Indians here-I do support "UN held plebiscite for Kashmir"- The whole of Kashmir and not leaving out bits and pieces and also meeting all the standards set forth within the framework, no speculation -blah blah blah- Deal!


The Pakistani position isn't for a plebiscite on 'bits and pieces'. The inclusion of Gilgit-Baltistan is only going shift the balance of votes towards Pakistan, and asking Pakistan to vacate the territory unilaterally is not called for in the UNSC Resolutions, nor is anyone with an iota of common sense going to ask for one warring party to unconditionally vacate a disputed territory.

In any case, this does not fall under the ambit of this thread. We are talking about derogatory words/slurs, not whether the actions of the Indian government and military in Occupied Jammu & Kashmir should be sugar coated to appease Indians.

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## VikingRaider

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:
> 
> *Porkistan (or derivatives like Porkistani, Porki):
> *
> Reason: Derogatory reference to Pakistan & Pakistanis
> 
> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> 
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Madrassa Chaap:*
> 
> Reason: Derogatory reference for Muslims/Pakistanis.
> 
> *Pajeet:*
> 
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Ghaati:*
> 
> Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Jihadi (by non-Muslims):
> *
> Reason: The word Jihad in Islam means 'to struggle' whereas Jihadi used as a derogatory reference to Muslims, conflated in contemporary culture with terrorists.
> 
> If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.
> 
> Thanks



You should add some more words too as *Bangu , Bangler , Bangla lala land , Bongoli *, ... and some more . They are used as derogatory words against us , and used many times in Bangladesh defence forum . @Homo Sapiens , @Bilal9 , @UKBengali ,@Avicenna , all witnessed such words at past I believe .

Thanks and regards

@AgNoStiC MuSliM



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> @UKBengali
> @Armchair
> Or any other Bengali members
> Is that correct?


Yes that's correct ! Many people use derogatory words against my nation , as I already stated some !There are few more , just they (haters) love to pervert the name of our language and nationality !
@AgNoStiC MuSliM

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

padamchen said:


> No he's not.
> 
> They want Indians to come back.





doorstar said:


> you mean to placate the angry Alexa? even though I have seen a senior mod make the offer to his highness, you could be right.


There is no concerted effort on the staff side to do either.

That was solely something *I *suggested in the thread because I've enjoyed reading discussions on domestic Indian politics between Indian members. The idea has not gone beyond my posts on that particular thread.

Doorstar - you can always contact me if you have questions or need clarifications on something instead of assuming that a comment of mine suggests forum policy.



Mr.Cringeworth said:


> Lol dude i get the feeling you're low key roasting them,





padamchen said:


> I got the same feeling. He's human.


I have plausible deniability.

The reason can include the definition/explanation of the term.

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## PDF

all derivatives like Chutiya, chutya,chutia, chutiyaa, chut, Chutiyapa, Randi Rona, Endians, Bhen Chod, BC, terroristan, Rapistan, Bandar ( used for Burmese military by Bangladeshis),

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Hachiman said:


> all derivatives like Chutiya, chutya,chutia, chutiyaa, chut, Chutiyapa, Randi Rona, Endians, Bhen Chod, BC, terroristan, Rapistan, Bandar ( used for Burmese military by Bangladeshis),


We're really creative as a species when it comes to denigrating those we consider as 'others'.

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## PDF

Kindly also make a thread in announcement where all the members are requested to be civilized and responsible. It is necessary to remind them that it is not merely the responsibility of PDF administration to improve the quality but the most important role here is of the PDF community. An acknowledgement posted in that thread by all members will be welcomed.

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## padamchen

Hachiman said:


> all derivatives like Chutiya, chutya,chutia, chutiyaa, chut, Chutiyapa, Randi Rona, Endians, Bhen Chod, BC, terroristan, Rapistan, Bandar ( used for Burmese military by Bangladeshis),



Chutya is such a satisfying desi word.

Nothing in English comes close in terms of the transmission of scorn.

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## Mr.Cringeworth

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Absolute Yes on Porkistan. I am surprised that hasn't come up before.
> 
> Westoxified - you'll have to explain.
> 
> Libtards, Liberandus ... I was thinking about that earlier (I've used those words as well).
> Afghandus ... (another word I'm guilty of having used)
> 
> On the political side, we have Youthias & Patwaris - the interesting thing there is that Pakistani liberals, who typically are the first ones to start jumping up and down over some perceived derogatory reference, have played a major role in popularizing the word Youthia as a derogatory reference to PTI supporters.


I think words like youthias or libturds should be allowed because they don't target a whole community, words that target a whole community shouldn't be allowed like randian now someone thats born in India can't change the fact that they're born there so it's derogatory because it wasn't their choice but you can change your political affiliation or your liberal views so these words that target these people shouldn't be banned, we have a right to criticise people on their choices. Hope you understand my point.

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## Nefarious

Damn I saw 'pajeet' floating around (no pun intended)...never knew what it meant. Lmao

Also someone keeps using 'honkey' and i see 'nigga' being used aswell.


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## JackTheRipper

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> replace d with r



But Indian used "BSDK" and "Bhosdike"
Pakistani use word "Bosrri Kay"


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## doorstar

Atlas said:


> You should add some more words too as bangu , Bangler , Bangla lala land , Bongoli , ... and some more . They are used as derogatory words against us , and used many times in Bangladesh defence forum . @Homo Sapiens , @Bilal9 , @UKBengali ,@Avicenna , all witnessed such words at past I believe .
> 
> Thanks and regards
> 
> @AgNoStiC MuSliM


 can they still use বঙ্গ bongo for bengal?
if some one from bengal is bengali then what is a person from bongo বঙ্গ if not bongoli then is it baanla? or is that the name of the lingo? so confused!

or is the person বাঙালি baanali?



Nefarious said:


> Damn I saw 'pajeet' floating around (no pun intended)...never knew what it meant.


fragrance of spice

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## PakFactor

The way this is going might as well ban half the English/Urdu dictionary.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

padamchen said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM I regularly make a search for keyword "Parsi" just to see if there's anything of interest I can engage on. Unfortunately in the past I pissed someone/s off bad enough to force him/her to create offensive IDs using that same term. All of them are banned, BUT the rub is that they still exist in pink and appear on the right hand column of the browzer in the results. Could you help by removing them permanently please?
> 
> Posting a screenshot below that is self explanatory:
> 
> View attachment 630800


The only way I know how is for the Admins to change the usernames manually. You'll have to approach Webby & Horus about it.

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## Philosopher

Ideally we should all be focused on engaging in constructive discourse. The issue is, people will always find ways to spite others if that is _their intent_. There is no limit to the creativity of insults. You will find yourself in a perpetual state of constantly banning words. Although this is helpful, unfortunately the abusers will always be one step ahead with their new ways of doing the same thing.

When you're engaging with another person here, even if you do not agree with their position, don't forget this is an open forum. If you can't convince that person, construct your arguments in a way so that the spectators reading your words are drawn to your side. Many people have a habit of just hurling abuse at each other once they realise they otherwise will not budge from their positions. The fact that we discuss sensitive political and historical topics here obviously make it more likely for emotions to take over. I think creating an environment where only level headed engagement is allowed to flourish and clamping down hard on violators is the aim. But obviously that is easier said than done. All it takes is for a few new trolls to start a chain reaction.

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## VikingRaider

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> *Bangu , Bangler , Bangla lala land , Bongoli*
> Reason: Derogatory terms used for Bangladeshis


Thank you very much for adding them after my request.

Best regards!

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## doorstar

Philosopher said:


> Ideally we should all be focused on engaging in constructive discourse. The issue is, people will always find ways to spite others if that is _their intent_. There is no limit to the creativity of insults. You will find yourself in a perpetual state of constantly banning words. Although this is helpful, unfortunately the abusers will always be one step ahead with their new ways of doing the same thing.
> 
> When you're engaging with another person here, even if you do not agree with their position, don't forget this is an open forum. If you can't convince that person, construct your arguments in a way so that the spectators reading your words are drawn to your side. Many people have a habit of just hurling abuse at each other once they realise they otherwise will not budge from their positions. The fact that we discuss sensitive political and historical topics here obviously make it more likely for emotions to take over. I think creating an environment where only level headed engagement is allowed to flourish and clamping down hard on violators is the aim. But obviously that is easier said than done. All it takes is for a few new trolls to start a chain reaction.


 however, it is okay for you to alter the spelling of another's forum nick to make it mean something other than what it does mean, grrrrreat!


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Nefarious said:


> Damn I saw 'pajeet' floating around (no pun intended)...never knew what it meant. Lmao
> 
> Also someone keeps using 'honkey' and i see 'nigga' being used aswell.


The moderators were not aware of what Pajeet actually mean until recently. We all thought it was a spin on Paa Jee (Punjabi).

We googled it when someone mentioned it was offensive and came across the Urban dictionary definition.

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## PakFactor

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Any objections to banning the use of the following (this is for Pakistani members)
> 
> Youthia/Youthya
> Patwari
> Pinki/Peerni
> 
> Most of the moderators were not aware of what Pajeet actually meant. We all thought it was a spin on Paa Jee (Punjabi).
> 
> We googled it when someone mentioned it was offensive and came across the Urban dictionary definition.




Yar, Patwari ko chor do

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## Philosopher

doorstar said:


> however, it is okay for you to alter the spelling of another's forum nick to make it mean something other than what it does mean, grrrrreat!



Hi,

I am not sure what you're referring to here. You mean my username that I changed?


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## doorstar

Philosopher said:


> you mean my username that I changed?


no, mine


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## PDF

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Youthia/Youthya
> Patwari


mind as well add noora and potian etc ... Such terms for political slandering is ruining the atmosphere.

also ban use of ** asterisks for replacing and snitching moderation of ban words


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## Joe Shearer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The moderators were not aware of what Pajeet actually mean until recently. We all thought it was a spin on Paa Jee (Punjabi).
> 
> We googled it when someone mentioned it was offensive and came across the Urban dictionary definition.



I thought the same myself.

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## Philosopher

doorstar said:


> no, mine



Well I don't know anything about that, but if you think someone unfairly changed your username, then did you open a discussion here?

https://defence.pk/pdf/forums/general-headquarters.170/

That's the best step for you to take. No much I can do, sorry.


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## Crusher

I am not offended by any words in the OP. Only people with low self-esteem get offended by such words, if you are on internet you have to develop thick skin and not carry fragile ego. You might ban these words here on this forum, but they will still be used somewhere else on the internet which would be out of your control, so who cares. By the way "Gangu" has been my favorite word for indians and I thank @Indus Pakistan for developing this legendary word for indians, I just love it to describe indians.

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## doorstar

Philosopher said:


> Well I don't know anything about that, but if you think someone unfairly changed your username, then did you open a discussion here?
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/forums/general-headquarters.170/
> 
> That's the best step for you to take. No much I can do, sorry.


good grief! no one one changed my user name. you did it in one of your posts in our one and only encounter


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## KAL-EL

Oingo Boingo


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## PDF

Crusher said:


> I am not offended by any words in the OP. Only people with low self-esteem get offended by such words, if you are on internet you have to develop thick skin and not carry fragile ego. You might ban these words here on this forum, but they will still be used somewhere else on the internet which would be out of your control, so who cares.


If such banning leads to a better and friendly atmosphere here, why not do it? We need to have a good atmosphere for healthy debates and discussion. And we hope that our dear community and members here will help us in achieving this.


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## Crusher

Hachiman said:


> If such banning leads to a better and friendly atmosphere here, why not do it? We need to have a good atmosphere for healthy debates and discussion. And we hope that our dear community and members here will help us in achieving this.



The best option on this forum is to popularized the use of "ignore" function, make it more accessible, explain it in a dedicated thread. Most of the times people are not worried about "words" but particular members they deem to be unfit to interact with, so they would like to "mute" them so that they don't see their posts, quotes, threads etc. It is better to replace "ignore" with a "mute" option as is the case for example in Quora platform.

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## El Sidd

Philosopher said:


> Well I don't know anything about that, but if you think someone unfairly changed your username, then did you open a discussion here?
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/forums/general-headquarters.170/
> 
> That's the best step for you to take. No much I can do, sorry.



How did your flag change? You joined in with 2 British flags if i remember correctly. 

Did you receive notification from the administration to correct your flags or was this a privileged choice?


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## Philosopher

doorstar said:


> good grief! no one one changed my user name. you did it in one of your posts in our one and only encounter



You are confusing me with someone else I think. I don't recall ever doing that. Anyway, we're talking this topic off track. Find me what you're referring to and tag me in an another thread, try Iran chill thread here. So I can see what you mean:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iranian-chill-thread.283137/page-2329



El Sidd said:


> How did your flag change? You joined in with 2 British flags if i remember correctly.
> 
> Did you receive notification from the administration to correct your flags or was this a privileged choice?



Off topic. I changed it myself despite not being born in Iran nor living there. Had many trolls with their "false flag" comment so I changed what I could.

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## El Sidd

Philosopher said:


> Off topic. I changed it myself despite not being born in Iran nor living there. Had many trolls with their "false flag" comment so I changed what I could.



lol


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## Jugger

JackTheRipper said:


> But Indian used "BSDK" and "Bhosdike"
> Pakistani use word "Bosrri Kay"


This again fortifies my position that both India and Pakistan are very close to each other in many aspects. Even in cuss words.


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## I S I

Noooooooooo not this one.


AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> *Pajeet:*
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)


I saw what you did there.

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## padamchen

El Sidd said:


> lol



Why so mean.

I have three flags.


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## El Sidd

padamchen said:


> Why so mean.
> 
> I have three flags.



just being fair


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## ChennaiDude

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The Pakistani position isn't for a plebiscite on 'bits and pieces'. The inclusion of Gilgit-Baltistan is only going shift the balance of votes towards Pakistan, and asking Pakistan to vacate the territory unilaterally is not called for in the UNSC Resolutions, nor is anyone with an iota of common sense going to ask for one warring party to unconditionally vacate a disputed territory.
> 
> In any case, this does not fall under the ambit of this thread. We are talking about *derogatory words/slurs,* not whether the actions of the Indian government and military in Occupied Jammu & Kashmir should be sugar coated to appease Indians.


Your forum your rules, your call- My apologies I must have misread the reason this was opened up in the first place-"*derogatory words/slurs"*- Carry on.



doorstar said:


> if that wer true would the likes of joe the bengali white gentleman and his new sidekick nilgiri be allowed to constantly wipe the floor with Pakistan and Pakistan-flag displayers? in one post you see them flattering/fellating some senior mod, in another you will see joe using the head of a junior as a mop, yet in another you will see him slandering Pakistan
> 
> BTW. it is also very very likely the joe inglish is gonna be made a moderator of upcoming sub-forum dedicated to durga mata i.e bharatvarsh


I disagree- Both the gentleman you mentioned have been as civil and professional and polite as can be- If you construe the fact that they win a few banter with Sr.Mods or their peers as being disrespectful in anyway then you might need to understand how an open forum works- If you just want your point of view to be accepted and agreed upon then you are correct!- 

Anyways on topic- I(Meaning - Members of the Forum ) was asked by the OP for any suggestions or recommendation on "Banned words on PDF"- I responded-Just found out that banned words were only meant for narratives that is suited to the climate- Oh well.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

ChennaiDude said:


> I responded-Just found out that banned words were only meant for narratives that is suited to the climate- Oh well.


It's a Pakistani forum. We believe Indian security forces in Indian Occupied J&K are occupying forces that commit atrocities on non-combatants for political gain, which, when done by individuals not wearing a uniform, are typically referred to as terrorism.

If, as a Pakistani forum, we backtrack on our position on Indian security forces in IoJK to appease Indian sensibilities, what's next?

A demand that we refer to IoJK as the 'Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir' and accept that it (along with Azad Kashmir and GB) is a part of India because not doing so 'offends Indian sensibilities'?

A demand that we start banning maps that do not comply with the Indian government's maps of J&K?

Banning racial slurs has no bearing on Pakistan's foreign policy positions, especially Pakistan's position on Jammu & Kashmir and on the actions of Indian Security forces in Indian Occupied Jammu & Kashmir.

The use of 'terrorism' to describe the actions of Indian security forces in IoJK is not meant to be a slur - that is literally what Pakistan and many Pakistanis believe is occurring in IoJK and has been occurring for decades.

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## ChennaiDude

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> It's a Pakistani forum. We believe Indian security forces in Indian Occupied J&K are occupying forces that commit atrocities on non-combatants for political gain, which, when done by individuals not wearing a uniform, are typically referred to as terrorism.
> 
> If, as a Pakistani forum, we backtrack on our position on Indian security forces in IoJK to appease Indian sensibilities, what's next?
> 
> A demand that we refer to IoJK as the 'Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir' and accept that it (along with Azad Kashmir and GB) is a part of India because not doing so 'offends Indian sensibilities'?
> 
> A demand that we start banning maps that do not comply with the Indian government's maps of J&K?
> 
> Banning racial slurs has no bearing on Pakistan's foreign policy positions, especially Pakistan's position on Jammu & Kashmir and on the actions of Indian Security forces in Indian Occupied Jammu & Kashmir.
> 
> The use of 'terrorism' to describe the actions of Indian security forces in IoJK is not meant to be a slur - that is literally what Pakistan and many Pakistanis believe is occurring in IoJK and has been occurring for decades.


The armed forces are just following the protocol set forth by GOI-(Boundaries/LOC-demarcated by the GOI not the armed forces) Its their job to protect the nation from outside and inside threat- They are only doing their job- No

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## PakFactor

ChennaiDude said:


> The armed forces are just following the protocol set forth by GOI-(Boundaries/LOC-demarcated by the GOI not the armed forces) Its their job to protect the nation from outside and inside threat- They are only doing their job- No



Your government is using terror and torture on civilians. Yours is a occupying force those Kashmiris don’t want you no matter how you spin it or what Government orders are given.

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## Joe Shearer

Hachiman said:


> mind as well add noora and potian etc ... Such terms for political slandering is ruining the atmosphere.
> 
> also ban use of ** asterisks for replacing and snitching moderation of ban words



LOL.

Damn! @Hachiman, you've been watching closely, too closely. Now it seems necessary to watch every word one is writing.


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## masterchief_mirza

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Could you give me some examples?


Gangadeshis are inhabitants and/or descendants of the tribes of the Gangetic floodplains.

The majestic ululations of domesticated pachyderms billow intermittently across the Gangetic plains, while the children of the erstwhile Indus Valley Civilisation make footfall on bare earth, watching and listening to the goings on yonder in simple wonderment. A day may yet come when the children of the noble Indus and her tributaries have a need or desire to tame the grand beast, and when that day comes, they shall beseech the Gangetics for their wise and ethereal counsel on such matters.

@Mangus Ortus Novem our friends in the moderation team asked for examples of erudite usage of "Gangu" or its derivatives. Would you add anything?

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

masterchief_mirza said:


> Gangadeshis are inhabitants and/or descendants of the tribes of the Gangetic floodplains.
> 
> The majestic ululations of domesticated pachyderms billow intermittently across the Gangetic plains, while the children of the erstwhile Indus Valley Civilisation make footfall on bare earth, watching and listening to the goings on yonder in simple wonderment. A day may yet come when the children of the noble Indus and her tributaries have a need or desire to tame the grand beast, and when that day comes, they shall beseech the Gangetics for their wise and ethereal counsel on such matters.
> 
> @Mangus Ortus Novem our friends in the moderation team asked for examples of erudite usage of "Gangu" or its derivatives. Would you add anything?


I can't see an issue with Gangadeshi (vs Gangudeshi), which literally translates to inhabitants of the Ganga.

Not sure what the others think.

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## Nilgiri

Indus Pakistan said:


> What is back is just a moving target you see



Moving target for the MQM goblin artillery team? 



padamchen said:


> Unfortunately in the past I pissed someone/s off bad enough to



You...of all people....pissed someone off? Never ever seen that happen.... shocked....shocked I say.

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## Naofumi

Are English cuss words banned? Urdu/Hindi cuss words? Any other language cuss words?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Naofumi said:


> Are English cuss words banned? Urdu/Hindi cuss words? Any other language cuss words?


That will depend on the context.

Obviously they won't be acceptable if used to abuse other posters.


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## Nefarious

masterchief_mirza said:


> Gangadeshis are inhabitants and/or descendants of the tribes of the Gangetic floodplains.
> 
> The majestic ululations of domesticated pachyderms billow intermittently across the Gangetic plains, while the children of the erstwhile Indus Valley Civilisation make footfall on bare earth, watching and listening to the goings on yonder in simple wonderment. A day may yet come when the children of the noble Indus and her tributaries have a need or desire to tame the grand beast, and when that day comes, they shall beseech the Gangetics for their wise and ethereal counsel on such matters.
> 
> @Mangus Ortus Novem our friends in the moderation team asked for examples of erudite usage of "Gangu" or its derivatives. Would you add anything?



Learn something new everyday - Gangetics...thanks!

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## ChennaiDude

PakFactor said:


> Your government is using terror and torture on civilians. Yours is a occupying force those Kashmiris don’t want you no matter how you spin it or what Government orders are given.


Lets stay on topic- I was responding to the OP- If you want to discuss your narrative, I am sure there are many such threads already running actively.


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## Robbie

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:
> 
> *Porkistan (or derivatives like Porkistani, Porki):*
> Reason: Derogatory reference to Pakistan & Pakistanis
> 
> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Madrassa Chaap:*
> Reason: Derogatory reference for Muslims/Pakistanis.
> 
> *50 Cent Army:*
> Reason: Derogatory term used for China/Chinese
> 
> *Pajeet:*
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Ghaati:*
> Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Jihadi (by non-Muslims):*
> Reason: The word Jihad in Islam means 'to struggle' whereas Jihadi used as a derogatory reference to Muslims, conflated in contemporary culture with terrorists.
> 
> *Bangu , Bangler , Bangla lala land , Bongoli*
> Reason: Derogatory terms used for Bangladeshis
> *
> *
> If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.
> 
> Thanks


If you truly wish to make this a space for serious discussions and attract high-quality posters, the *culture* of using _any_ abusive term has to be removed. 

For example, this extends to terms like 'chutiya', etc which are culturally common in the subcontinent and oft used between Pakistanis themselves. Once you make it culturally unacceptable for anyone to use any abusive terms on this forum, racially abusive words, etc will decline almost immediately and the average post quality will start rising steadily.

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## Indus Pakistan

masterchief_mirza said:


> The majestic ululations of domesticated pachyderms billow intermittently across the Gangetic plains, while the children of the erstwhile Indus Valley Civilisation make footfall on bare earth, watching and listening to the goings on yonder in simple wonderment. A day may yet come when the children of the noble Indus and her tributaries have a need or desire to tame the grand beast, and when that day comes, they shall beseech the Gangetics for their wise and ethereal counsel on such matters.


Beautiful.

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## padamchen

Nilgiri said:


> Moving target for the MQM goblin artillery team?
> 
> 
> 
> You...of all people....pissed someone off? Never ever seen that happen.... shocked....shocked I say.



Lol

I must have really made an impact on his life.

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## Indus Pakistan

I want to here to give a insight into how the use of 'Ganga' became conspicious in my posts here and other fora. When I was young lad in 1970s I was a voracious reader. I must have read my entire school library which was huge and had vintage books even from 1890s. History, politics and geography appealed to my nature. One book I read was from series called the 'geography of the world'. One book from the series was on the Indian Sub-continent. All books were written by experts who knew and had lived in the regions the book covered.

The book on Indian sub-continent had sections and covered differant geographic region in the sub-continent and was by a professor of geography who had lived and travelled over the sub-continent pre 1947 during British rule. He knew intimately the 'lay of the land'. Differant sections covered regions with eacxh region sub-divided. He covered the Indus basin as one unit including it's hinterlands like Balochistan. The criterion for each region was complex. It involved river basin or what is called a catchment area, [that is a region where all the rainfal aggregates and discharges or drains into one river system] temperature, precipitation, koppen climate classification etc and all this was supported with fantastic graphs and maps including photo 'plates'. The quality and detail was exquisite.

Ganga river basin was treated entirely separately. So was Southern India or Deccan as he called it. Overlaid on this was ethnic maps and details with histories of each section. This book went to inform my undestanding of South Asia. Since then of course I read more books. I loved reading "Where the Indus is young" by Dervala Murphy back in early 1980s. Along the way books by Imran Khan like 'Indus Journey' and the what to me was the magnus opus ~ Indus Saga by Aitzaz Ahsan.

However over the last two decades particularly since the last I have noticed a deliberate attempt to conjoin or make twins of Indus River and Ganga River*. Despite the fact that both flow in opposite direction, disharge in entire differant seas, go through entirely differant geographies and climates. Terms like Indo-Gangatic plain have been peddled to conflate these two disparate river systems. Of course this was driven by a agenda and fueled by Indians. To refuse or undo 1947, tout the Akhand Bharat myth.

So my antidote to this malevolence was Ganga-desh. Which sums up most of India nicely. River Ganga is holy and central to Hindu faith. Varanasi or Kumb Mela are testament to this fact. Majority of India's massive population of nearly 1.4 billion live on the Ganga basin. Thus Ganga-desh I believe beautifully captures the essence of India.

Where there is Ganga we have the Indus. A river as if not more critical to the very existence of Pakistan. Without this river most of Pakistan would turn into bare bone desert and the country would starve. Most of Pakistan sits on the eastern flank of the dry arid zone that begins west in Morrocco to Algeria to Egypt to Iraq to UAE to Oman to souther Iran to Pakistan with small sliver even extending into Indian Rajasthan.

In addition Indus unites the entire length of Pakistan. It melds all our provinces and all our ethnic peoples. So in conclusion please don't ban a geographic term of diffrantiation.

_*Google Indus Basin and you will see this deliberate attempt to conflate Indus with Ganga particularly on Wikipedia articles._

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## Ace of Spades

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> *Lord MasterChief,*
> 
> I did post here earlier... anyhow....
> *
> The simplest and the most effective route* is to ask the good Indians what kind of words/phrases/terms they don't wish to be on PDF regarding them... *that would solve all the 'issues'.*
> 
> The thing is *Gangetic Civilisation has Ganga* as its *foundational myth/truth*....
> 
> When *Brahma unleashed the HeavenlyWaters... the infant Earth would have drowned...then Shiva absorbed those HeavenlyWaters in a single strand of his locks... and only released from one hair..if I am not mistaken...*
> 
> *The Good people of Ganga/Gangetic Civilisation consider Ganga to be much, much more than a River*... even now some *ministry of GoI has asked their researchers to research on GangaJal as cure for the KhooniVirus*... goes on to show the Depth of Value that the good Indians attach to Ganga....
> 
> The word '*Gangu*' then logically is a classification of the good people belonging to *Gangetic Civilisation*....
> *
> Peshawer... Peshaweri...
> 
> Lahore ... Lahori
> 
> Pind... Paindu...
> 
> Ganga...Gangu....*
> 
> As you might be aware that French call Duistland something else... and you Britons call them Germany/Germans... Italian calls the Germania... So do the Chinese... they have different words for different countries/people in their own language.
> *
> That is the backdrop of the* *previous usage* of the *now banned word 'Gangu'*.... *application of our own language to designate a* *country to our east as Gangudesh and its inhebitents as 'Gangus' .*...
> 
> And this where it ends!
> 
> Since, the good Indians see it as a slur... hence, the Admin has decided to ban the usage of the word 'Gangu'...
> 
> Though I have seen the good Indians trying to call us Indurani ... personally, *Indu *would do.... in classical sense.
> 
> What is imperative for the moderation to, perhaps, consider that *the Struggle between Indus and Ganga Civilisations has been quite Ancient* ....could be seen in *Vedas *as well... *where even IoJK is described as part of Indus Region.... *
> 
> Regardless, *the NewRules need to be followed*... and any term banned by the Admin/Moderation should automatically be xxxxxx so that it doesn't offend in anyway the good Indians here on PDF.
> 
> What is rather interesting is that the *Momentum of History* is accelerating... and we are at the edge of a fundamental, global change... as in the *WesternDemocracies*.... the rhetoric and emotions are naturally reacting the *Existential Angst of the impeding Change*.... I fear Conflict....wrote enough about it already.
> 
> From Unz to CNN...everywhere the comment sections inform us the actual subliminal thoughts/emtions....and the language used is quite interesting as well! Even at Dawn pages...the good Indians do express their feelings towards us with abandon!
> 
> *These things will only accelerate... *
> 
> *It is a Noble Attempt to consider other people's feelings... why not!*
> 
> Religious discussion are banned... so isn't it logical that all religious words be banned too? Wouldnt that make even a better environment?
> 
> The *Idea of Pakistan* is the *Most Powerful Idea in the World*... and *Essence of Pakistan* remains unchanged...
> 
> For the rest ...each to his own...
> 
> I have become *BemusedObserver *of things ...trying to remain in the *Centre of the Circle* @Ace of Spades
> *
> PakKashmiris are OurBlood.*
> 
> Mangus



Brother; i have always been insisting that this is the war of narratives. And if you look closely; which i am sure you are aware of, but not so much our other good brothers, who take Indians at their face value... sigh. Anyhow coming to the point. Hue and cry on international map, which even shows Azad Kashmir all the way to GB as India, from LOC to annexation, and now new drum beating on GB. Notice how by default Pakistanis have started using Pakistan's map that only includes Pakistan administrated regions. And here some of our brothers are concerned that snow flakes shouldn't feel offended in any regard. They feel offended when we discuss indian occupation of Kashmir and how their terrorist army is killing freedom fighters. Also, when we discuss how they are treating Indian muslims, sikhs, women, lower castes in their country. Go to the threads that were opened recently to discuss the deplorable condition of Indian muslims and see how those threads were hijacked by good indians; by going off topic, after initial few posts most of the users take their bait and start discussing something else completely. But since it's all brushed under forum rules it's all good. Again, these rules that are being implemented has to be followed, since there has to be a basic structure on which this forum can run. But again this is a war of narratives, our brothers are looking at it too narrowly.

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## Indus Pakistan

*I think the annotated map below expresses my point better than words.

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## Nefarious

Indus Pakistan said:


> I want to here to give a insight into how the use of 'Ganga' became conspicious in my posts here and other fora. When I was young lad in 1970s I was a voracious reader. I must have read my entire school library which was huge and had vintage books even from 1890s. History, politics and geography appealed to my nature. One book I read was from series called the 'geography of the world'. One book from the series was on the Indian Sub-continent. All books were written by experts who knew and had lived in the regions the book covered.
> 
> The book on Indian sub-continent had sections and covered differant geographic region in the sub-continent and was by a professor of geography who had lived and travelled over the sub-continent pre 1947 during British rule. He knew intimately the 'lay of the land'. Differant sections covered regions with eacxh region sub-divided. He covered the Indus basin as one unit including it's hinterlands like Balochistan. The criterion for each region was complex. It involved river basin or what is called a catchment area, [that is a region where all the rainfal aggregates and discharges or drains into one river system] temperature, precipitation, koppen climate classification etc and all this was supported with fantastic graphs and maps including photo 'plates'. The quality and detail was exquisite.
> 
> Ganga river basin was treated entirely separately. So was Southern India or Deccan as he called it. Overlaid on this was ethnic maps and details with histories of each section. This book went to inform my undestanding of South Asia. Since then of course I read more books. I loved reading "Where the Indus is young" by Dervala Murphy back in early 1980s. Along the way books by Imran Khan like 'Indus Journey' and the what to me was the magnus opus ~ Indus Saga by Aitzaz Ahsan.
> 
> However over the last two decades particularly since the last I have noticed a deliberate attempt to conjoin or make twins of Indus River and Ganga River*. Despite the fact that both flow in opposite direction, disharge in entire differant seas, go through entirely differant geographies and climates. Terms like Indo-Gangatic plain have been peddled to conflate these two disparate river systems. Of course this was driven by a agenda and fueled by Indians. To refuse or undo 1947, tout the Akhand Bharat myth.
> 
> So my antidote to this malevolence was Ganga-desh. Which sums up most of India nicely. River Ganga is holy and central to Hindu faith. Varanasi or Kumb Mela are testament to this fact. Majority of India's massive population of nearly 1.4 billion live on the Ganga basin. Thus Ganga-desh I believe beautifully captures the essence of India.
> 
> Where there is Ganga we have the Indus. A river as if not more critical to the very existence of Pakistan. Without this river most of Pakistan would turn into bare bone desert and the country would starve. Most of Pakistan sits on the eastern flank of the dry arid zone that begins west in Morrocco to Algeria to Egypt to Iraq to UAE to Oman to souther Iran to Pakistan with small sliver even extending into Indian Rajasthan.
> 
> In addition Indus unites the entire length of Pakistan. It melds all our provinces and all our ethnic peoples. So in conclusion please don't ban a geographic term of diffrantiation.
> 
> _*Google Indus Basin and you will see this deliberate attempt to conflate Indus with Ganga particularly on Wikipedia articles._



Outside of India the Ganges is not seen in positive light. Industrial Pollution, Bodies, Raw sewage, diseases etc

I'm sure at one point it was clean beautiful healthy river. They effed it up and it's like they're ashamed of it now. Should clean it up and *own it*.

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## masterchief_mirza

Indus Pakistan said:


> Terms like Indo-Gangatic plain have been peddled to conflate these two disparate river systems. Of course this was driven by a agenda and fueled by Indians. To refuse or undo 1947, tout the Akhand Bharat myth.


As per usual sir, you have nailed this one.

Indeed, the term "India" is fallaciously and malevolently associated to a contrived historical context by the same agenda enablers. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/...californias-india-history-curriculum.amp.html

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## Joe Shearer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> It's a Pakistani forum. We believe Indian security forces in Indian Occupied J&K are occupying forces that commit atrocities on non-combatants for political gain, which, when done by individuals not wearing a uniform, are typically referred to as terrorism.
> 
> If, as a Pakistani forum, we backtrack on our position on Indian security forces in IoJK to appease Indian sensibilities, what's next?
> 
> A demand that we refer to IoJK as the 'Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir' and accept that it (along with Azad Kashmir and GB) is a part of India because not doing so 'offends Indian sensibilities'?
> 
> A demand that we start banning maps that do not comply with the Indian government's maps of J&K?
> 
> Banning racial slurs has no bearing on Pakistan's foreign policy positions, especially Pakistan's position on Jammu & Kashmir and on the actions of Indian Security forces in Indian Occupied Jammu & Kashmir.





> The use of 'terrorism' to describe the actions of Indian security forces in IoJK is not meant to be a slur - that is literally what Pakistan and many Pakistanis believe is occurring in IoJK and has been occurring for decades.



LOL.

I can only laugh at the use of a loaded and emotive word with the justification that has been given.
Not that I wish to contradict such a transparently clear and logical explanation.
_
A gentleman from Nigeria stepped into a London bank and asked to cash a cheque. The cashier examined it, found it in good order, and asked the gentleman to sign it on the back, and she would give him the money."Oh, that won't be necessary; just give me the money", said he."I'm sorry, Sir, but we need you to sign", she told him. "No, you're wrong, it's complete,and you can give me the money", he insisted. The queue behind was growing, and the cashier was getting worried. Fortunately for her, the bank manager happened to be nearby, and landed up to rescue her."I'll take care of this. Please come with me, Sir", he said to the client, and took him away to his private office, ushered him inside, and locked the door. He turned and sank his fist into the Nigerian's stomach. The man doubled over and fell to the floor."Sign the cheque", said the manager, and extended his arm to help him up. The Nigerian stood up with difficulty, eyes glazed with the pain, and got a quick uppercut to the chin. He fell down again."Sign the cheque", said the manager, and kicked his client in the ribs. 
After a few minutes of this, he picked up the client, patted him on the shoulder, and asked,"Will there be anything more, Sir?" "Oh, no, it's perfectly all right", wheezed the Nigerian, hobbling out. 
The cashier was shocked to see him in that badly bruised, battered state. "I'm so sorry to see you like this, Sir", she said, sympathetically.
"Oh, that's perfectly all right" said the man, signing the cheque on the back,"It's just that nobody explained this to me so clearly before". 
_
Stories, stories, such a waste of time. Now where was I? Oh, right, first a ticket to Lucknow, to kiss the rather repulsive posterior of a Yogi turned Chief Minister. He's right to call Muslims foul names, and treat them in beastly fashion; when he calls that community an unspeakable name, it isn't meant to be a slur, it is literally what UP and a majority of Bhaiyyas believe is true and has been true for some centuries. Silly me; I thought they were bigots all this time; it's just that *nobody explained this to me so clearly before*.

There's this international flight I have to catch after that; to Kathmandu, then to the Northern Capital to meet Yogi Bear. He's right to extinguish the culture of his north-west province, and treat them in beastly fashion; it isn't meant to be insulting, it is literally what his country and his ethnic group believe is true and has been true for some centuries. Ah, well, I found out in time; better late than never, it's just that *nobody explained this to me so clearly before*.

So you are right, after all, Suriya, and Gadkari/AndhaDhun/whatever Vague thing you call yourself currently, and Sarthak Ganguly, and the whole host of bogeys I fought so needlessly for so long.

"It's the majority, stupid, and keep your cocked-up thinking to yourself". *Nobody explained this to me so clearly before*.



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I can't see an issue with Gangadeshi (vs Gangudeshi), which literally translates to inhabitants of the Ganga.
> 
> Not sure what the others think.



D'accord, Monsieur.

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## PDF

Joe Shearer said:


> LOL.
> 
> Damn! @Hachiman, you've been watching closely, too closely. Now it seems necessary to watch every word one is writing.


I used the slipshod too for my advantage and violated forum rules( before the new forum rules & guidelines, the ban on use of asterisks was explicitly mentioned). I sneakily misused that but after becoming a title holder, I had to changed; change if not for myself, then for others. Besides, simplicity and straightforwardness in conversations is in a way the best sophistication.



Joe Shearer said:


> WHAT were you doing, eyeing Maamis so closely? @Hachiman, look at this little deleted asterisk.



Let every man skin his own skunk. Cut that dude some some slack. A man does not live by bread alone.

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## Joe Shearer

Hachiman said:


> I used the slipshod too for my advantage and violated forum rules( before the new forum rules & guidelines, the ban on use of asterisks was explicitly mentioned). I sneakily misused that but after becoming a title holder, I had to changed; change if not for myself, then for others. Besides, simplicity and straightforwardness in conversations is in a way the best sophistication.
> 
> 
> 
> Let every man skin his own skunk. Cut that dude some some slack. A man does not live by bread alone.



You need to get involved more, in the general ruck. It's fun when you're around.



masterchief_mirza said:


> As per usual sir, you have nailed this one.
> 
> Indeed, the term "India" is fallaciously and malevolently associated to a contrived historical context by the same agenda enablers.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/...californias-india-history-curriculum.amp.html



Got to hand it to you, @Indus Pakistan.

You've got a formidable following! a big fan club.



Ace of Spades said:


> Brother; i have always been insisting that this is the war of narratives. And if you look closely; which i am sure you are aware of, but not so much our other good brothers, who take Indians at their face value... sigh. Anyhow coming to the point. Hue and cry on international map, which even shows Azad Kashmir all the way to GB as India, from LOC to annexation, and now new drum beating on GB. Notice how by default Pakistanis have started using Pakistan's map that only includes Pakistan administrated regions. And here some of our brothers are concerned that snow flakes shouldn't feel offended in any regard. They feel offended when we discuss indian occupation of Kashmir and how their terrorist army is killing freedom fighters. Also, when we discuss how they are treating Indian muslims, sikhs, women, lower castes in their country. Go to the threads that were opened recently to discuss the deplorable condition of Indian muslims and see how those threads were hijacked by good indians; by going off topic, after initial few posts most of the users take their bait and start discussing something else completely. But since it's all brushed under forum rules it's all good. Again, these rules that are being implemented has to be followed, since there has to be a basic structure on which this forum can run. But again this is a war of narratives, our brothers are looking at it too narrowly.



Couldn't we summarise?

The only good Indian is a dead Indian. 

The cowboys said it long before you.

What a rush, reading all that good stuff from the two zen masters and their two disciples. So there we are, Indus and - what's its name? - Ganga, and that sums up India, and actually explains why India is not a real word.

Just imagine; if I'd died at 68, I'd never have known all this, or that geography IS history. Wrong honours. As usual, when my ship came in, I was at the airport.

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## Ace of Spades

Joe Shearer said:


> Couldn't we summarise?
> 
> The only good Indian is a dead Indian.
> 
> The cowboys said it long before you.
> 
> What a rush, reading all that good stuff from the two zen masters and their two disciples. So there we are, Indus and - what's its name? - Ganga, and that sums up India, and actually explains why India is not a real word.
> 
> Just imagine; if I'd died at 68, I'd never have known all this, or that geography IS history. Wrong honours. As usual, when my ship came in, I was at the airport.



Good to feel the rush; enjoy it till you have it. You won't have to wait too long before your own countrymen will make sure that you feel another kind of rush back at home.  cheers!


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## Joe Shearer

Ace of Spades said:


> Good to feel the rush; enjoy it till you have it. You won't have to wait too long before your own countrymen will make sure that you feel another kind of rush back at home.  cheers!



Why wait that long? It's been like that from 2012 or so. Think this is new? You poor chap, I genuinely feel sorry for you. Seriously.


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## Ace of Spades

Joe Shearer said:


> Why wait that long? It's been like that from 2012 or so. Think this is new? You poor chap, I genuinely feel sorry for you. Seriously.



It's dripping down the nostrils, keep licking it and imagine it's all good. At least we both are consistent our views. From 2014 till now; we both know what has changed, constant thumps of tabla... the sweet rhythm. I say enjoy and i wish you guys another term of modi


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## Joe Shearer

Ace of Spades said:


> It's dripping down the nostrils, keep licking it and imagine it's all good. At least we both are consistent our views. From 2014 till now; we both know what has changed, constant thumps of tabla... the sweet rhythm. I say enjoy and i wish you guys another term of modi



He won't get another term; their rules forbid it. From 2014 to now, the Sangh Parivar has come to power. Do you know why? Do you want to know why? Or do you just want to sit on the sidelines rubbing your hands in glee and winking at everyone, before you get splashed by a passing motor and sit there rueing a perfectly good day lost forever?

Those were serious questions; I hope you answer.

PS: and don't try to provoke me. It won't work, and I'll tell you why. It's because I'm sitting here smiling at you. It is not a sarcastic smile; whether you believe it or not, it is an affectionate smile. I know that is hard to handle; live with it.


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## Indus Pakistan

Joe Shearer said:


> a big fan club.


If I do I never intended for it. I have a outlook that I shared. If I found some takers for it. Good. But that is secondary. I enjoy thinking aloud my ideas. Spent a lifetime chasing career, money etc

All this is driven by something else. Can't figure out what exactly ...

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## Ace of Spades

Joe Shearer said:


> He won't get another term; their rules forbid it. From 2014 to now, the Sangh Parivar has come to power. Do you know why? Do you want to know why? Or do you just want to sit on the sidelines rubbing your hands in glee and winking at everyone, before you get splashed by a passing motor and sit there rueing a perfectly good day lost forever?
> 
> Those were serious questions; I hope you answer.
> 
> PS: and don't try to provoke me. It won't work, and I'll tell you why. It's because I'm sitting here smiling at you. It is not a sarcastic smile; whether you believe it or not, it is an affectionate smile. I know that is hard to handle; live with it.



Hahaha if feel pity for you; i really do. You had this confidence years ago as well, and i predicted what this lot is gonna do to your artificial federation. You mumbled similarly, and here we are today. You can all try to spin and then pin your country's misery on whatever factors. Won't change the fact that a terror organization is ruling your country, and will take another term again. And that's the end of discussion right there. Now you can play flute in paradise and tell me how you are smiling; i want you to feel comfort in the fact that i am smiling back.

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## Joe Shearer

Indus Pakistan said:


> If I do I never intended for it. I have a outlook that I shared. If I found some takers for it. Good. But that is secondary. I enjoy thinking aloud my ideas. Spent a lifetime chasing career, money etc
> 
> All this is driven by something else. Can't figure out what exactly ...



Self-actualisation.

The peak of the Maslow hierarchy. 

I envy you.



Ace of Spades said:


> Hahaha if feel pity for you; i really do. You had this confidence years ago as well, and i predicted what this lot is gonna do to your artificial federation. You mumbled similarly, and here we are today. You can all try to spin and then pin your country's misery on whatever factors. Won't change the fact that a terror organization is ruling your country, and will take another term again. And that's the end of discussion right there. Now you can play flute in paradise and tell me how you are smiling; i want you to feel comfort in the fact that i am smiling back.



If you are smiling that is good enough. No other reactions needed.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

ChennaiDude said:


> The armed forces are just following the protocol set forth by GOI-(Boundaries/LOC-demarcated by the GOI not the armed forces) Its their job to protect the nation from outside and inside threat- They are only doing their job- No


So massacring, raping, torturing and maiming civilians is something that they are ordered to do by the Indian military command & government I assume.

Much like Osama Bin Laden and Baghdadi gave the orders to the foot soldiers of Al Qaeda & ISIS to carry out attacks on innocent civilians.

Haven’t seen anyone stop calling the foot soldiers of ISIS or AQ ‘terrorists’.

@Joe Shearer

If not terrorism, what word would you prefer to use for acts of murder, maiming, torture & rape perpetrated by Indian Security Forces upon a population occupied through force?

Your comparison with Yogi and his band of bigots is a good one, except that you mixed up the actors. Yogi is just another extension or political side of the terrorism perpetrated by India - Muslims, whether directly in IoJK or indirectly through Yogi’s hatemongering in India, are the victims in both cases.

But you would prefer that we just sugarcoat the atrocities by Indian Security forces in IoJK because ... because why? A uniform?

Instead of going after us for calling a spade a spade, take it up with the Indian political leadership as to why honorable men in the Indian military uniform are being made to do dishonorable things in IoJK.

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## 313ghazi

Indus Pakistan said:


> I want to here to give a insight into how the use of 'Ganga' became conspicious in my posts here and other fora. When I was young lad in 1970s I was a voracious reader. I must have read my entire school library which was huge and had vintage books even from 1890s. History, politics and geography appealed to my nature. One book I read was from series called the 'geography of the world'. One book from the series was on the Indian Sub-continent. All books were written by experts who knew and had lived in the regions the book covered.
> 
> The book on Indian sub-continent had sections and covered differant geographic region in the sub-continent and was by a professor of geography who had lived and travelled over the sub-continent pre 1947 during British rule. He knew intimately the 'lay of the land'. Differant sections covered regions with eacxh region sub-divided. He covered the Indus basin as one unit including it's hinterlands like Balochistan. The criterion for each region was complex. It involved river basin or what is called a catchment area, [that is a region where all the rainfal aggregates and discharges or drains into one river system] temperature, precipitation, koppen climate classification etc and all this was supported with fantastic graphs and maps including photo 'plates'. The quality and detail was exquisite.
> 
> Ganga river basin was treated entirely separately. So was Southern India or Deccan as he called it. Overlaid on this was ethnic maps and details with histories of each section. This book went to inform my undestanding of South Asia. Since then of course I read more books. I loved reading "Where the Indus is young" by Dervala Murphy back in early 1980s. Along the way books by Imran Khan like 'Indus Journey' and the what to me was the magnus opus ~ Indus Saga by Aitzaz Ahsan.
> 
> However over the last two decades particularly since the last I have noticed a deliberate attempt to conjoin or make twins of Indus River and Ganga River*. Despite the fact that both flow in opposite direction, disharge in entire differant seas, go through entirely differant geographies and climates. Terms like Indo-Gangatic plain have been peddled to conflate these two disparate river systems. Of course this was driven by a agenda and fueled by Indians. To refuse or undo 1947, tout the Akhand Bharat myth.
> 
> So my antidote to this malevolence was Ganga-desh. Which sums up most of India nicely. River Ganga is holy and central to Hindu faith. Varanasi or Kumb Mela are testament to this fact. Majority of India's massive population of nearly 1.4 billion live on the Ganga basin. Thus Ganga-desh I believe beautifully captures the essence of India.
> 
> Where there is Ganga we have the Indus. A river as if not more critical to the very existence of Pakistan. Without this river most of Pakistan would turn into bare bone desert and the country would starve. Most of Pakistan sits on the eastern flank of the dry arid zone that begins west in Morrocco to Algeria to Egypt to Iraq to UAE to Oman to souther Iran to Pakistan with small sliver even extending into Indian Rajasthan.
> 
> In addition Indus unites the entire length of Pakistan. It melds all our provinces and all our ethnic peoples. So in conclusion please don't ban a geographic term of diffrantiation.
> 
> _*Google Indus Basin and you will see this deliberate attempt to conflate Indus with Ganga particularly on Wikipedia articles._



This. 

Ganga and gangadesh etc should not be on this list. It smells of a little holier than thou by the admins.

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## El Sidd

What about the word Baniya?

I have 2 negative ratings for that

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## Nilgiri

El Sidd said:


> What about the word Baniya?
> 
> I have 2 negative ratings for that



....and what about Abdul?

Remember this one lol:

https://defence.pk/pdf/members/webmaster.177270/#profile-post-98850

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## El Sidd

Nilgiri said:


> ....and what about Abdul?
> 
> Remember this one lol:
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/members/webmaster.177270/#profile-post-98850



Its not even correct. 

Abd means slave.

Abdul is just "slave of".

Its an open ended thing so i don't mind. Still does not explain why i have 2 negative ratings for it while Indians can literally throw the most vile abuse at each other. 

I even explained baniya is a profession but ironically apke Joe was busy trying to portray my new profile as Green Bakht which he uses for Islamic terrorism.

Seriously close this thread before i start taking interest in it

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## M. Sarmad

No need to Ban words like _Gangu_ just to appease Indians

Jinnah strongly objected to the Brits allowing Bharatis/Gangus to refer to their country as 'India' .. Hindustanis have stolen our identity and history. We are no longer under the British rule ... It's rather the word "Indian" that should be banned on PDF...

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## Joe Shearer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> So massacring, raping, torturing and maiming civilians is something that they are ordered to do by the Indian military command & government I assume.
> 
> Much like Osama Bin Laden and Baghdadi gave the orders to the foot soldiers of Al Qaeda & ISIS to carry out attacks on innocent civilians.
> 
> Haven’t seen anyone stop calling the foot soldiers of ISIS or AQ ‘terrorists’.
> 
> @Joe Shearer
> 
> If not terrorism, what word would you prefer to use for acts of murder, maiming, torture & rape perpetrated by Indian Security Forces upon a population occupied through force?
> 
> Your comparison with Yogi and his band of bigots is a good one, except that you mixed up the actors. Yogi is just another extension or political side of the terrorism perpetrated by India - Muslims, whether directly in IoJK or indirectly through Yogi’s hatemongering in India, are the victims in both cases.
> 
> But you would prefer that we just sugarcoat the atrocities by Indian Security forces in IoJK because ... because why? A uniform?
> 
> Instead of going after us for calling a spade a spade, take it up with the Indian political leadership as to why honorable men in the Indian military uniform are being made to do dishonorable things in IoJK.



First. 

Starting backwards, do you think there is anything left unsaid, not just by me but by many other Indians, about those aspects that we consider to be done wrong in the erstwhile J&K?

Second. 

My dilemma is a very simple one, and very stark.

If you are right, and the majority determines what is the moral nature of a situation, then so too is the Sangh Parivar; they too have the same position, that they, being in the majority, 'know', beyond the capacity of the law of the land, how to determine morality.

Now, if you are right, AND the Sangh Parivar is right, what is my position? Whom should I stand with?

Third. 

For what you have said, acts of murder should be called murder; it is a crime under the statutes, and what other name but the statutory nature of the crime should be used?

Acts of maiming are grievous bodily injury; what else need they be called, and why?

Acts of torture are acts of torture; I do not remember the exact definition, but there is ample provision for it.

So, too, acts of rape are acts of rape.

My question to you is this: why is there a need for a special nomenclature for any of these crimes, other than a political need for a political purpose? And if it is a political need and a political purpose, then where is this to be resolved, in a court of law or by negotiation between two sets of opposing advocates, whatever we call them, diplomats or other?

It goes further. 

I am told that this is a reprehensible state of affairs, and am also told that force will be exercised to correct this, and that this use of force is legitimate. It is a puzzle to me: has force never been used before by one party to impose its wishes on the other party? If this is a perpetual position, to use force to resolve the matter, and to aid and abet those who, as individuals, take it upon themselves to set things right, then what is new, and why should this fresh effort be called for? If you have decided on a course of action right at the start, we have on our side of the border nothing to contribute, besides wringing our hands. And agitating for human rights, but that is again not exactly new.

Fourth.

Wherever there has been occasion, there has been, in the years that have passed, efforts made by Indian individuals and groups, authorised and unauthorised, legally empowered by courts of law and by government authority, to get to the bottom of things. I ask this plainly, to all reading this, have any of you, ANY of you, gone through those proceedings? Or is it the Red Queen's solution - Execution first, Trial afterwards?

If it is anyone's case that there has never been retribution exacted for offenders, I can confidently tell you, with no fear of contradiction, and on the basis of public records that appeared at the time, that it is not so.

Fifth.

Until 2014, this pack that is at the helm of affairs had NO influence. It needs to be thought about clearly and said clearly - is it being argued that this state of affairs was always so, or is it being argued that it has been so since 2014? What they have done since 2014 in the sphere of constitutionality has evoked outrage not merely in me, but in the minds of a great many Indians.

To end my submission, make of this what you will; from where I stand, there is no reason, no justification, no moral or legal foundation to select politically loaded terms that have a context only in an effort to reclaim the ground lost by listless diplomacy in the past, and in an attempt to make the most of the singularly uncivil government that we have to suffer.

Needless to add, I will doubtless presently, like my Nigerian exemplar, have it explained to me very clearly.

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## flameboard

This has been a very informative thread. I wasn’t aware of most of these words

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## Joe Shearer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> So massacring, raping, torturing and maiming civilians is something that they are ordered to do by the Indian military command & government I assume.
> 
> Much like Osama Bin Laden and Baghdadi gave the orders to the foot soldiers of Al Qaeda & ISIS to carry out attacks on innocent civilians.
> 
> Haven’t seen anyone stop calling the foot soldiers of ISIS or AQ ‘terrorists’.
> 
> @Joe Shearer
> 
> If not terrorism, what word would you prefer to use for acts of murder, maiming, torture & rape perpetrated by Indian Security Forces upon a population occupied through force?
> 
> Your comparison with Yogi and his band of bigots is a good one, except that you mixed up the actors. Yogi is just another extension or political side of the terrorism perpetrated by India - Muslims, whether directly in IoJK or indirectly through Yogi’s hatemongering in India, are the victims in both cases.
> 
> But you would prefer that we just sugarcoat the atrocities by Indian Security forces in IoJK because ... because why? A uniform?
> 
> Instead of going after us for calling a spade a spade, take it up with the Indian political leadership as to why honorable men in the Indian military uniform are being made to do dishonorable things in IoJK.



An afterthought: who, dear Sir, is 'going after' you? Is a reasoned and politely worded representation so terrifying that it is considered 'going after' you? One lone voice, isolated on all sides, including among Indians, and you are unable to hear it?



M. Sarmad said:


> No need to Ban words like _Gangu_ just to appease Indians
> 
> Jinnah strongly objected to the Brits allowing Bharatis/Gangus to refer to their country as 'India' .. Hindustanis have stolen our identity and history. We are no longer under the British rule ... It's rather the word "Indian" that should be banned on PDF...



Ah, '...the voice of the turtle is heard in the land....'

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## khansaheeb

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:
> 
> *Porkistan (or derivatives like Porkistani, Porki):*
> Reason: Derogatory reference to Pakistan & Pakistanis
> 
> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Madrassa Chaap:*
> Reason: Derogatory reference for Muslims/Pakistanis.
> 
> *50 Cent Army:*
> Reason: Derogatory term used for China/Chinese
> 
> *Pajeet:*
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Ghaati:*
> Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Jihadi (by non-Muslims):*
> Reason: The word Jihad in Islam means 'to struggle' whereas Jihadi used as a derogatory reference to Muslims, conflated in contemporary culture with terrorists.
> 
> *Bangu , Bangler , Bangla lala land , Bongoli*
> Reason: Derogatory terms used for Bangladeshis
> *
> *
> If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.
> 
> Thanks


But Indians don't have loos, so this is a mis-definition.

Bhangi is a synonym for Indians because there are more bhangis in India than any other country surely this word is appropriate?


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## KhanBaba2

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I can't see an issue with Gangadeshi (vs Gangudeshi), which literally translates to inhabitants of the Ganga.
> 
> Not sure what the others think.



Not every Indian is a Gangadeshi. I am not a Gangadeshi.

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## Joe Shearer

flameboard said:


> This has been a very informative thread. I wasn’t aware of most of these words



Thank you for reminding me of what Tom Paine said about Edmund Burke's _Reflections on the French Revolution_: He pities the plumage, but forgets the dying bird.

Well done, Sir. Now please pick up your stone and get into line.



khansaheeb said:


> But Indians don't have loos, so this is a mis-definition.
> 
> Bhangi is a synonym for Indians because there are more bhangis in India than any other country surely this word is appropriate?



Of course, dear Sir. Any word you choose, any at all, is legitimate. Also therefore appropriate; one comes before the other.



KhanBaba2 said:


> Not every Indian is a Gangadeshi. I am not a Gangadeshi.



Do you seriously expect anyone at all to stretch their minds beyond Aitzaz Ahsan and his skilful exposition by a master wordsmith, to think of the nine river basins that contained Indian civilisation? Or to reflect that the Indus culture in post-IVC years was a marcher land, and nowhere comparable to the Deccan? 

Forget it.

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## El Sidd

flameboard said:


> This has been a very informative thread. I wasn’t aware of most of these words



I hope Siri learns too. Its hard to train her as she is now a feminist

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## khansaheeb

El Sidd said:


> I hope Siri learns too. Its hard to train her as she is now a feminist


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## El Sidd

khansaheeb said:


>



i just asked Siri the recipe for a Cuban sandwich.

She played Jenni's I ain't yo Mama in return.

The uprising has begun !!

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## khansaheeb

El Sidd said:


> i just asked Siri the recipe for a Cuban sandwich.
> 
> She played Jenni's I ain't yo Mama in return.
> 
> The uprising has begun !!


Siri is a Russian mole?


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## El Sidd

khansaheeb said:


> Siri is a Russian mole?



if she was i would have that recipe


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## khansaheeb

xuxu1457 said:


> I haven't heard of any of them, and I don't know what they mean.
> Is it a failure?


You need to go to India, you will then be able to concoct more meaningful words to describe them.



khansaheeb said:


> You need to go to India, you will then be able to concoct more meaningful words to describe them.


Siri is inciting American women and usurping the American culture, definitely a Russian mole, President Trump should informed ASAP.

Funny thing is after that outburst Jenni reverts to mopping the floor.


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## Death Professor

Wow, the thread has changed quite a bit, so is the list since I last visited the thread. "Bagla lala land", that doesn't sound offensive, it sounds groovy. Just my opinion, but Bangla derogatory terms feel quite low effort.


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## El Sidd

Death Professor said:


> Wow, the thread has changed quite a bit, so is the list since I last visited the thread. "Bagla lala land", that doesn't sound offensive, it sounds groovy. Just my opinion, but Bangla derogatory terms feel quite low effort.



maybe its lost in pronunciation. 

or its a different dialect.

who knows.

who cares


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## doorstar

Elizabeth Chatiyar Khan said:


> Decision taken in right direction else it was more of a platform to abuse Indian,Pakistanis and Chinese.Pakistanis and Chinese has made it a stinking shit hole.


Déjà vu
@AgNoStiC MuSliM

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## Pakistani Fighter

Elizabeth Chatiyar Khan said:


> Decision taken in right direction else it was more of a platform to abuse Indian,Pakistanis and Chinese.Pakistanis and Chinese has made it a stinking shit hole.


@jamahir

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## doorstar

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> @jamahir


jai bajrang bali
Jai Oh Oh-oh-oh!


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## jamahir

doorstar said:


> jai bajrang bali
> Jai Oh Oh-oh-oh!



What ?


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## masterchief_mirza

KhanBaba2 said:


> Not every Indian is a Gangadeshi. I am not a Gangadeshi.


But you answer to the nation centred around the gangetic plains, not the nation built around the Indus. Hence you are willing to be incorporated into the gangetic nation. You fall under their jurisdiction. You're not under the jurisdiction of the Indus plains. Do you not yourself realise that you have far less reason to be "Indian" and you have far more reason to be "Gangu"?

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## PDF

Porki, Indiot

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## KhanBaba2

masterchief_mirza said:


> But you answer to the nation centred around the gangetic plains, not the nation built around the Indus. Hence you are willing to be incorporated into the gangetic nation. You fall under their jurisdiction. You're not under the jurisdiction of the Indus plains. Do you not yourself realise that you have far less reason to be "Indian" and you have far more reason to be "Gangu"?



You Hindustani just don't seem to understand the geography of India.


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## jamahir

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> @jamahir



Sorry, I hadn't read that last bit ( Pakistanis and Chinese ) and ended up liking her post. Mistake.

Her post is now deleted.


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## TheGreatMaratha

masterchief_mirza said:


> But you answer to the nation centred around the gangetic plains, not the nation built around the Indus. Hence you are willing to be incorporated into the gangetic nation. You fall under their jurisdiction. You're not under the jurisdiction of the Indus plains. Do you not yourself realise that you have far less reason to be "Indian" and you have far more reason to be "Gangu"?


It's up to us right about what we should be called. We don't want to be called 'Gangu'. Should we decided for instance, what Pakistanis should be called? No, right?


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## masterchief_mirza

KhanBaba2 said:


> You Hindustani just don't seem to understand the geography of India.


Hindustan is a reasonable name for the modern republic of India. It is still distinct from Pakistan, even if you use that name.

Just because some Buddhists and Hindus once lived in coterminous Pakistan, that doesn't make it part of "Hindustan" or "India". This is part of the hindutva fraud. What has a pashtun tribe got to do with the river Ganga or the government of the republic of India sitting in Delhi. Neither the modern state of India/Hindustan, nor the ancient world gangetic tribes are connected to the majority of Pakistanis. We live off the river Indus. In fact, we are India. You lot are Hindustan or Gangadesh.



TheGreatMaratha said:


> It's up to us right about what we should be called. We don't want to be called 'Gangu'. Should we decided for instance, what Pakistanis should be called? No, right?


Then please explain why it's an insult for any Indians to be associated with hinduism's sacred river. There is a contradiction here that warrants explanation by representatives of the Hindu rashtra - whether overt hindutva or "moderate" "secular" "Indians".

When I use the term "Gangadeshi" or its derivatives, there is no malice or negative inflection. Judge each situation on its context. Likewise, "jihadi" isn't necessarily an insult. Again, context is what matters. That was the example i referred to earlier hence I will use it again here.

Now if you wish me to desist from using Ganga and its derivatives in a purely descriptive manner, you need to explain why it is inaccurate as a geographical or geopolitical descriptor for India's people.

Again, I reiterate, I'm not talking about the term when used in a malicious context - certainly that should be banned and that is a case based assessment.

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## TheGreatMaratha

masterchief_mirza said:


> Then please explain why it's an insult for any Indians to be associated with hinduism's sacred river. There is a contradiction here that warrants explanation by representatives of the Hindu rashtra - whether overt hindutva or "moderate" "secular" "Indians".


When we have the words 'India', 'Hindustan', 'Bharat', there's no need for the use of 'Gangadesh'. There's no official word called 'Gangadesh'.


masterchief_mirza said:


> When I use the term "Gangadeshi" or its derivatives, there is no malice or negative inflection. Judge each situation on its context.


Really? Are you sure?


masterchief_mirza said:


> Likewise, "jihadi" isn't necessarily an insult. Again, context is what matters. That was the example i referred to earlier hence I will use it again here.


It's up to the mods/you people to decide whether 'jihadi' as a word is an insult in this forum or not. We are not deciding it for you.


masterchief_mirza said:


> Now if you wish me to desist from using Ganga and its derivatives in a purely descriptive manner, you need to explain why it is inaccurate as a geographical or geopolitical descriptor for India's people.


Why should I explain anything to you? We Indians don't want the usage of 'Gangadesh' on the forum. We Indians will decide that, right? Maybe we can take a poll among ourselves.

I certainly don't want 'Gangadesh' as a word to be used.

@vegav @jamahir @Gandhi G in da house @Joe Shearer @ChennaiDude @Nilgiri @KhanBaba2 @Axomiya_lora @Naofumi @Mad Scientist 2.0

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## Naofumi

TheGreatMaratha said:


> I certainly don't want 'Gangadesh' as a word to be used.


Well, I think it's used as a slur here but assume if you had heard it from someone else, say an Indian would it be an offence or not?


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## TheGreatMaratha

Naofumi said:


> Well, I think it's used as a slur here but assume if you had heard it from someone else, say an Indian would it be an offence or not?


For me, it's still an offence even if fellow Indians use it. There are Pakistani posters with fake Indian identities who won't hesitate to use it all day long.


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## Naofumi

And the Gangu is not descriptive at all - a Haryanvi has nothing in common with a Bengali. Just because we share a river, it doesn't mean we are similar.

BTW, Haryana was a part of undivided Punjab but a Gangu river (Yamuna) flows through it, is it Ganguland or not?

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## M. Sarmad

TheGreatMaratha said:


> It's up to us right about what we should be called. We don't want to be called 'Gangu'. Should we decided for instance, what Pakistanis should be called? No, right?



It was in fact the Hindu/Congress press that dubbed the 1940 Lahore Resolution as 'Pakistan' resolution/conspiracy. We gladly accepted ... We find nothing wrong in our lands being called 'land of the pure' by our enemies... Isn't Ganga considered a sacred river in Hinduism? Why would a Hindu feel offended when he is associated with something they consider sacred and holy? ... We are the people of Indus, why do you _insist_ on identifying yourself with the people who have nothing in common with you, and with the land that doesn't belong to you?



Naofumi said:


> BTW, Haryana was a part of undivided Punjab but a Gangu river (Yamuna) flows through it, is it Ganguland or not?



Punjab was a Muslim majority territory and it belongs to us.. Haryana and Himachal included


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## TheGreatMaratha

M. Sarmad said:


> It was in fact the Hindu/Congress press that dubbed the 1940 Lahore Resolution as 'Pakistan' resolution/conspiracy. We gladly accepted ... We find nothing wrong in our lands being called 'land of the pure' by our enemies... Isn't Ganga considered a sacred river in Hinduism? Why would a Hindu feel offended when he is associated with something they consider sacred and holy? ... We are the people of Indus, why do you _insist_ on identifying yourself with the people who have nothing in common with you, and with the land that doesn't belong to you?


We are officially called 'India' so whatever grievances you have about the name of my country, ask your government to take it up with our government.

Regarding 'Gangadesh', I've already addressed it above. I'm not going to keep repeating stuff. Many Indians don't even live in the Ganga region so it would make us feel excluded. That's another reason.

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## Naofumi

TheGreatMaratha said:


> Regarding 'Gangadesh', I've already addressed it above. I'm not going to keep repeating stuff.


Gangetic plains have less than 40% of our population and even lesser landmass, Gangu word is not even descriptive of the majority here.

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## Aswaklanta D

masterchief_mirza said:


> Hindustan is a reasonable name for the modern republic of India. It is still distinct from Pakistan, even if you use that name.
> 
> Just because some Buddhists and Hindus once lived in coterminous Pakistan, that doesn't make it part of "Hindustan" or "India". This is part of the hindutva fraud. What has a pashtun tribe got to do with the river Ganga or the government of the republic of India sitting in Delhi. Neither the modern state of India/Hindustan, nor the ancient world gangetic tribes are connected to the majority of Pakistanis. We live off the river Indus. In fact, we are India. You lot are Hindustan or Gangadesh.
> 
> 
> Then please explain why it's an insult for any Indians to be associated with hinduism's sacred river. There is a contradiction here that warrants explanation by representatives of the Hindu rashtra - whether overt hindutva or "moderate" "secular" "Indians".
> 
> When I use the term "Gangadeshi" or its derivatives, there is no malice or negative inflection. Judge each situation on its context. Likewise, "jihadi" isn't necessarily an insult. Again, context is what matters. That was the example i referred to earlier hence I will use it again here.
> 
> Now if you wish me to desist from using Ganga and its derivatives in a purely descriptive manner, you need to explain why it is inaccurate as a geographical or geopolitical descriptor for India's people.
> 
> Again, I reiterate, I'm not talking about the term when used in a malicious context - certainly that should be banned and that is a case based assessment.


You not reading history then,all Indian peoples not from ganga valley. 
Yes northeast India and South India is very different from North India. 
But it is truth that North India and majority Pakistan very similar. 
We call you people bhayya. It is not insult. But we say it for person who look and act like you.

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## TheGreatMaratha

Guys, let's not derail this thread.


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## Naofumi

Is word Bhayya ok?


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## M. Sarmad

TheGreatMaratha said:


> We are officially called 'India' so whatever grievances you have about the name of my country, ask your government to take it up with our government.
> 
> Regarding 'Gangadesh', I've already addressed it above. I'm not going to keep repeating stuff. Many Indians don't even live in the Ganga region so it would make us feel excluded. That's another reason.



Why being evasive now? answer the simple questions 



Aswaklanta D said:


> Yes northeast India and South India is very different from North India.



South or North-east Indians are no more 'Indian' than the Indonesians or Red Indians of America
India is an artificial entity created by the Brits and that's the whole point


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## Naofumi

Aswaklanta D said:


> Yes northeast India and South India is very different from North India.


Even west India - Rajasthan, Gujarat and Maharashtra are not under Gangetic plains.

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## Aswaklanta D

M. Sarmad said:


> Why being evasive now? answer the simple questions
> 
> 
> 
> South or North-east Indians are no more 'Indian' than the Indonesians or Red Indians of America
> India is an artificial entity created by the Brits and that's the whole point


We all together are India.



Naofumi said:


> Even west India - Rajasthan, Gujarat and Maharashtra are not under Gangetic plains.


But people same

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## namefield_empty

TheGreatMaratha said:


> I certainly don't want 'Gangadesh' as a word to be used.


Most certainly, wholeheartedly support you on this. Though i am personally unaffected by the slur, hailing from the Brahmaputra valley, any word having negative connotation for my fellow Indian brothers/sisters is equally offensive to me.

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## M. Sarmad

Aswaklanta D said:


> We all together are India.



We are the people of Indus... You have just stolen our identity and history probably because you have no history/identity of your own to be proud of

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## Aswaklanta D

Axomiya_lora said:


> Most certainly, wholeheartedly support you on this. Though i am personally unaffected by the slur, hailing from the Brahmaputra valley, any word having negative connotation for my fellow Indian brothers/sisters is equally offensive to me.


Ganga is our river, so if someone call me gangu it's ok for me. I am Indian and ganga river also mine

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## Naofumi

M. Sarmad said:


> We are the people of Indus... You have just stolen our identity and history probably because you have no history/identity of your own to be proud of


You can call yourself Indian too, we don't have any objections but maybe your countrymen may have.

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## masterchief_mirza

Naofumi said:


> And the Gangu is not descriptive at all - a Haryanvi has nothing in common with a Bengali. Just because we share a river, it doesn't mean we are similar.
> 
> BTW, Haryana was a part of undivided Punjab but a Gangu river (Yamuna) flows through it, is it Ganguland or not?


You're ignoring part of my post. The political entity sitting in Delhi declares the Ganga as the river that defines India, the river that sustains it. Any tributaries of the Ganges in Pakistan are irrelevant as in Pakistan, we have not declared this river as central to our geopolitical situation. You're making the same mistake of assuming Pakistan or Nepal or Bangladesh are part of the modern political construct known as "India". There was an empire that artificially created "India" before 1947 and modern Indian citizens inherited part of that artificial construct, nothing more. Your "India" has no relevance to me as a Pakistani. Now with this in mind, it doesn't matter what someone sitting in Delhi says about what is "Indian" or what isn't - it doesn't apply to Pakistan. This is the crux of the great saffron fraud that has been quietly rewriting history, archaeology and anthropology to suit the Hindu rashtra narrative.

Why shouldn't non-Indians also be cognizant of the importance of Ganga as claimed by the Delhi regime itself? Why is it an insult as a descriptor of the state of India's primary geopolitical reference point?

Explain why and I will desist.

So far, people are saying it's insulting just because it is.

I have explained that if my context is benign, then it is nothing more than a descriptive term.

All over the world, people are unofficially (and with benign intent) named after geographic features particular to their unique situations. Why is an Indian insulted by reference to the river that supposedly sustains the nation of India?

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## namefield_empty

Aswaklanta D said:


> Ganga is our river, so if someone call me gangu it's ok for me. I am Indian and ganga river also mine


Well said friend, what i meant was that we are not from the Ganga valley, but it is a holy river for us too. 

But the word gangu is used derisively, in a negative light, so i would never support its use.


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## masterchief_mirza

Naofumi said:


> You can yourself Indian too, we don't have any objections but maybe your countrymen may have.


We are "Indian" with reference to the Indus. You have usurped and misconstrued this word - at present, it is unusable by us but at heart we are certainly more "Indian" than you can possibly be. We can't use this word because of its misappropriation by Delhi.

An analagous situation arose in the FYR Macedonia, whom the Greeks claimed falsely appropriated the term "Macedonia". 

It's quite plain and obvious when one actually thinks about it.

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## TheGreatMaratha

Naofumi said:


> You can call yourself Indian too, we don't have any objections but maybe your countrymen may have.


Hehe epic


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## Aswaklanta D

M. Sarmad said:


> We are the people of Indus... You have just stolen our identity and history probably because you have no history/identity of your own to be proud of



I don't know why you say this but we have history and it is called buronji. 
Why will I want stolen your identity. 
Simple thing for anyone who read history, your people not do anything great and only ruled by other all time. 
I have normal identity and I am proud of my ancestors who fight for motherland never give up.

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## Naofumi

masterchief_mirza said:


> You're ignoring part of my post. The political entity sitting in Delhi declares the Ganga as the river that defines India, the river that sustains it. Any tributaries of the Ganges in Pakistan are irrelevant as in Pakistan, we have not declared this river as central to our geopolitical situation. You're making the same mistake of assuming Pakistan or Nepal or Bangladesh are part of the modern political construct known as "India". There was an empire that artificially created "India" before 1947 and modern Indian citizens inherited that artificial construct, nothing more. Your "India" has no relevance to me as a Pakistani. Now with this in mind, it doesn't matter what someone sitting in Delhi says about what is "Indian" or what isn't - it doesn't apply to Pakistan. This is the crux of the great saffron fraud that has been quietly rewriting history, archaeology and anthropology to suit the Hindu rashtra narrative.
> 
> Why shouldn't non-Indians also be cognizant of the importance of Ganga as claimed by the Delhi regime itself? Why is it an insult as a descriptor of the state of India's primary geopolitical reference point?
> 
> Explain why and I will desist.
> 
> So far, people are saying it's insulting just because it is.
> 
> I have explained that if my context is benign, then it is nothing more than a descriptive term.
> 
> All over the world, people are unofficially (and with benign intent) named after geographic features particular to their unique situations. Why is an Indian insulted by reference to the river that supposedly sustains the nation of India?


You did not answered about Haryana being Ganguland or not.


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## TheGreatMaratha

So me, @Naofumi and @Axomiya_lora are against it. @Aswaklanta D is for the usage. 3-1 already.


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## M. Sarmad

Axomiya_lora said:


> But the word gangu is used derisively, in a negative light, so i would never support its use.



Sindh > Sindhu
Hind > Hindu
Ganga > Gangu

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## TheGreatMaratha

masterchief_mirza said:


> We are "Indian" with reference to the Indus. You have usurped and misconstrued this word - at present, it is unusable by us but at heart we are certainly more "Indian" than you can possibly be. We can't use this word because of its misappropriation by Delhi.
> 
> An analagous situation arose in the FYR Macedonia, whom the Greeks claimed falsely appropriated the term "Macedonia".
> 
> It's quite plain and obvious when one actually thinks about it.


Should I tell you separately what I already told @M. Sarmad. Feel free to take your grievances with our government. If the government changes the name of our country to 'Gangadesh' based on your inputs, you can then call us by that name.


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## Naofumi

masterchief_mirza said:


> We are "Indian" with reference to the Indus. You have usurped and misconstrued this word - at present, it is unusable by us but at heart we are certainly more "Indian" than you can possibly be. We can't use this word because of its misappropriation by Delhi.


You can start by calling yourself "real" Indian and tell the world we're fakes, world will surely take note.



TheGreatMaratha said:


> Should I tell you separately what I already told @M. Sarmad. Feel free to take your grievances with our government. If the government changes the name of our country to 'Gangadesh', you can then call us by that name.


I think most of the Gangetic plains people will be fine (if they have not seen the PDF's usage as a slur) but others may even revolt.

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## namefield_empty

masterchief_mirza said:


> We are "Indian" with reference to the Indus. You have usurped and misconstrued this word


Headwaters of Indus flows through India before entering Pakistan. Rest of it too formed a part of our Indic lands before it was corrupted by an alien civilization.


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## masterchief_mirza

Naofumi said:


> You did not answered about Haryana being Ganguland or not.


Please explain what you're suggesting in detail. Are you saying because an offshoot of Ganga enters Pakistan then that area belongs to Delhi? I explained why this isn't true already. Ganga is not defined as central to Pakistani identity by Pakistanis. Ganga is the core of all Indians' identity as per routine Hindutva political thought. I also clearly explained why the nation of India is an artificial construct and Pakistan is not part of it. Hence, in Pakistan we define the importance of whatever geographical features exist in Pakistan. And as far as I know, the Ganga is not important.

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## M. Sarmad

Axomiya_lora said:


> Headwaters of Indus flows through India before entering Pakistan.



J&K is an internationally recognised disputed territory, not India
Try again

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## masterchief_mirza

Axomiya_lora said:


> Headwaters of Indus flows through India before entering Pakistan. Rest of it too formed a part of our Indic lands before it was corrupted by an alien civilization.


Indus is still central to us economically regardless of its origin. 

Ganges is central to the republic of India economically and spiritually and politically. You and others mentioned elsewhere that not all of India is gangetic territory but at the same time, you all have a political affinity for Ganga and reverence for it - which is precisely my point ...that Ganges is central to all Indians. You actually get my point.

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## namefield_empty

M. Sarmad said:


> Sindh > Sindhu
> Hind > Hindu
> Ganga > Gangu


Things are not as simple as they seem, i was banned on PDF recently for using the abbreviated form of your country. Apparantly, as per forum rules, only Pakistanis can use the short form. We using it constitutes a slur..

Similarly, if Indians like @Aswaklanta D have no problems with it, then so be it, but many of us do when our neighbours use the term. That much should be clear.

If gangu is allowed to be used by your countrymen then we should be at a liberty to use a few shorthands at our discretion too. Methinks..

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## TheGreatMaratha

masterchief_mirza said:


> Please explain what you're suggesting in detail. Are you saying because an offshoot of Ganga enters Pakistan then that area belongs to Delhi? I explained why this isn't true already. Ganga is not defined as central to Pakistani identity by Pakistanis. Ganga is the core of all Indians' identity as per routine Hindutva political thought. I also clearly explained why the nation of India is an artificial construct and Pakistan is not part of it. Hence, in Pakistan we define the importance of whatever geographical features exist in Pakistan. And as far as I know, the Ganga is not important.


Please mind your own business. As @Naofumi has already pointed out, majority of Indians don't even live in the Gangetic plains. It will just make us feel excluded. On the other hand, 'India' is the official name of our country. So please call us Indians. 

Every country is an artificial construct by your logic.


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## Naofumi

masterchief_mirza said:


> Ganga is the core of all Indians' identity as per routine Hindutva political thought


This part is incorrect, even more so according to RSS's narrative.

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## TheGreatMaratha

masterchief_mirza said:


> Indus is still central to us economically regardless of its origin.
> 
> Ganges is central to the republic of India economically and spiritually and politically. You and others mentioned elsewhere that not all of India is gangetic territory but at the same time, you all have a political affinity for Ganga and reverence for it - which is precisely my point ...that Ganges is central to all Indians. You actually get my point.


Can you just please mind your own business now? Can't you see 3 Indians already against the usage?


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## Naofumi

And moreover, confusing every Indian as "Gangu" is like confusing Pakistanis as Punjabi.

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## Aswaklanta D

Axomiya_lora said:


> Things are not as simple as they seem, i was banned on PDF recently for using the abbreviated form of your country. Apparantly, as per forum rules, only Pakistanis can use the short form. We using it constitutes a slur..
> 
> Similarly, if Indians like @Aswaklanta D have no problems with it, then so be it, but many of us do when our neighbours use the term. That much should be clear.
> 
> If gangu is allowed to be used by your countrymen then we should be at a liberty to use a few shorthands at our discretion too. Methinks..


Dada moi koisu he je mur okhubidha nai. 
Kukure Tu bhukiye thakibo. Thakok



Naofumi said:


> And moreover, confusing every Indian as "Gangu" is like confusing Pakistanis as Punjabi.


But most Pakistan people are punjabi. 
Why is it problem.


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## Naofumi

Aswaklanta D said:


> But most Pakistan people are punjabi.
> Why is it problem.


Exactly, Pakistanis should be fine with "Panju", is not it?


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## M. Sarmad

@AgNoStiC MuSliM .. 

@masterchief_mirza is right, context is important 
There's absolutely nothing wrong in using word _Gangu _or _Gangadeshi_ for Bharatis/Ganga dwellers



TheGreatMaratha said:


> Can you just please mind your own business now? Can't you see 3 Indians already against the usage?



You seem to be forgetting that you are on a Pakistani forum, our dear Gangu friend

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## KhanBaba2

masterchief_mirza said:


> Hindustan is a reasonable name for the modern republic of India. It is still distinct from Pakistan, even if you use that name.



Hindustan is derived from the word Indus. So if you call us Gangadeshi, you become Hindustani. Nothing to do with the religion. It has to do with geography.


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## TheGreatMaratha

M. Sarmad said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM ..
> 
> @masterchief_mirza is right, context is important
> There's absolutely nothing wrong in using word _Gangu _or _Gangadeshi_ for Bharatis/Ganga dwellers
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be forgetting that you are on a Pakistani forum, our dear Gangu friend


Reported for calling me 'Gangu'. Please read what @AgNoStiC MuSliM has written in the 1st post.

You are violating the rules in the same thread. Wow.

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## namefield_empty

Aswaklanta D said:


> Dada moi koisu he je mur okhubidha nai.
> Kukure Tu bhukiye thakibo. Thakok


Dhet teri

Etia buji palu, ihotor logot kotha pota mane sika mari haath gundhuwa...


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## Aswaklanta D

Naofumi said:


> Exactly, Pakistanis should be fine with "Panju", is not it?


I don't know how many person know here. 
But we also have Assamese sikh punjabis who came to assam to help us in old time against Muslim foreigners. 
There sons still living here. 
If I find video I put. 
Also they have a bad poem about people living near indus river. I not remember it but I will asking it today and post



Axomiya_lora said:


> Dhet teri
> 
> Etia buji palu, ihotor logot kotha pota mane sika mari haath gundhuwa...


Thike koise dada. 
Iman matha gorom hoi,,, jata koi thake.


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## M. Sarmad

TheGreatMaratha said:


> Reported for calling me 'Gangu'. Please read what @AgNoStiC MuSliM has written in the 1st post.
> 
> You are violating the rules in the same thread. Wow.



As pointed out by @AgNoStiC MuSliM , This thread has been posted for discussion/suggestions.
There's no need to ban words _Gangu_ or _Gangadeshi _just to appease the Indians
That's my opinion/suggestion

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## TheGreatMaratha

M. Sarmad said:


> As pointed out by @AgNoStiC MuSliM , This thread has been posted for discussion and suggestions.
> There's no need to ban words _Gangu_ or _Gangadeshi _just to appease the Indians
> That's my opinion/suggestion


But you can't call me that till the word is allowed. You are already calling me 'Gangu' when it's not allowed to be officially used. I don't even live in the Gangetic plains.

Should I insist on calling you Punjabi even if you're Pashtun or vice versa? I'm just giving a simple example.

Anyway, all this is pointless. I'm out of here.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

TheGreatMaratha said:


> Reported for calling me 'Gangu'.





TheGreatMaratha said:


> Reported for calling me 'Gangu'. Please read what @AgNoStiC MuSliM has written in the 1st post.
> 
> You are violating the rules in the same thread. Wow.


its a discussion thread. We can’t discuss the word unless we use the word. Please limit reporting to the main forum for now, not a thread used for getting feedback on the word itself.


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## jamahir

TheGreatMaratha said:


> So me, @Naofumi and @Axomiya_lora are against it. @Aswaklanta D is for the usage. 3-1 already.



Count me as against 'Gangu'.

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## King Julien

@AgNoStiC MuSliM @WebMaster Can there be a ban on one liners? or maybe have minimum of 200 character in a post. Most members who religiously troll here cannot engage in discussion and post one liners that have nothing to do with the topic, degrading the quality of forum. 
defence.pk used to have comprehensive discussions of several topics, maybe these members left the forum; back in the day there used to be discussions on radar cross section, linear electron accelerator, brain machine interface etc. This site used to have big breaking news on every subject much before it went on reddit / twitter now its vice versa. Today only stupid & funny thread has relevant posts to the topic

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## namefield_empty

Aswaklanta D said:


> But we also have Assamese sikh punjabis who came to assam to help us in old time against Muslim foreigners.
> There sons still living here.
> If I find video I put.


If i remember correctly, made a thread on it many months back. Beautiful story of miscegenation, how they assimilated into our culture and adopted our language, fills me up with pride. Some of their habitations can be found as one drives to Ghy from ujoni.. No wonder that they are one of the most likeable communities. Contrast it to the gedas who are bent on importing their toxic alien culture.. Couldn't help with the OT rant..

Btw, the NE Sikhs elsewhere in other states like in Meghalaya who came with the British haven't assimilated much.


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## Aswaklanta D

Axomiya_lora said:


> If i remember correctly, made a thread on it many months back. Beautiful story of miscegenation, how they assimilated into our culture and adopted our language, fills me up with pride. Some of their habitations can be found as one drives to Ghy from ujoni.. No wonder that they are one of the most likeable communities. Contrast it to the gedas who are bent on importing their toxic alien culture.. Couldn't help with the OT rant..
> 
> Btw, the NE Sikhs elsewhere in other states like in Meghalaya who came with the British haven't assimilated much.


If you have video then post it. 
I tried but cannot find. 
Also it is joking like when the only response Pakistan person give is that this is Pakistan forum and they say everything they want. 
Yes they control it. They already show how they control other minority in there homeland. 
Now they show it here on internet. It ok, they doing what is within there capacity, 
but they hate us when we doing same in kashmir.

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## vegav

TheGreatMaratha said:


> When we have the words 'India', 'Hindustan', 'Bharat', there's no need for the use of 'Gangadesh'. There's no official word called 'Gangadesh'.
> 
> Really? Are you sure?
> 
> It's up to the mods/you people to decide whether 'jihadi' as a word is an insult in this forum or not. We are not deciding it for you.
> 
> Why should I explain anything to you? We Indians don't want the usage of 'Gangadesh' on the forum. We Indians will decide that, right? Maybe we can take a poll among ourselves.
> 
> I certainly don't want 'Gangadesh' as a word to be used.
> 
> @vegav @jamahir @Gandhi G in da house @Joe Shearer @ChennaiDude @Nilgiri @KhanBaba2 @Axomiya_lora @Naofumi @Mad Scientist 2.0



Bro, I don't know why you care? Love and hatred can't be stopped by God also. Let them use whatever word they want to. Their city Karachi is overwhelming full of Gangadeshis only. Their DNA comes from.there.



Joe Shearer said:


> First.
> 
> Starting backwards, do you think there is anything left unsaid, not just by me but by many other Indians, about those aspects that we consider to be done wrong in the erstwhile J&K?
> 
> Second.
> 
> My dilemma is a very simple one, and very stark.
> 
> If you are right, and the majority determines what is the moral nature of a situation, then so too is the Sangh Parivar; they too have the same position, that they, being in the majority, 'know', beyond the capacity of the law of the land, how to determine morality.
> 
> Now, if you are right, AND the Sangh Parivar is right, what is my position? Whom should I stand with?
> 
> Third.
> 
> For what you have said, acts of murder should be called murder; it is a crime under the statutes, and what other name but the statutory nature of the crime should be used?
> 
> Acts of maiming are grievous bodily injury; what else need they be called, and why?
> 
> Acts of torture are acts of torture; I do not remember the exact definition, but there is ample provision for it.
> 
> So, too, acts of rape are acts of rape.
> 
> My question to you is this: why is there a need for a special nomenclature for any of these crimes, other than a political need for a political purpose? And if it is a political need and a political purpose, then where is this to be resolved, in a court of law or by negotiation between two sets of opposing advocates, whatever we call them, diplomats or other?
> 
> It goes further.
> 
> I am told that this is a reprehensible state of affairs, and am also told that force will be exercised to correct this, and that this use of force is legitimate. It is a puzzle to me: has force never been used before by one party to impose its wishes on the other party? If this is a perpetual position, to use force to resolve the matter, and to aid and abet those who, as individuals, take it upon themselves to set things right, then what is new, and why should this fresh effort be called for? If you have decided on a course of action right at the start, we have on our side of the border nothing to contribute, besides wringing our hands. And agitating for human rights, but that is again not exactly new.
> 
> Fourth.
> 
> Wherever there has been occasion, there has been, in the years that have passed, efforts made by Indian individuals and groups, authorised and unauthorised, legally empowered by courts of law and by government authority, to get to the bottom of things. I ask this plainly, to all reading this, have any of you, ANY of you, gone through those proceedings? Or is it the Red Queen's solution - Execution first, Trial afterwards?
> 
> If it is anyone's case that there has never been retribution exacted for offenders, I can confidently tell you, with no fear of contradiction, and on the basis of public records that appeared at the time, that it is not so.
> 
> Fifth.
> 
> Until 2014, this pack that is at the helm of affairs had NO influence. It needs to be thought about clearly and said clearly - is it being argued that this state of affairs was always so, or is it being argued that it has been so since 2014? What they have done since 2014 in the sphere of constitutionality has evoked outrage not merely in me, but in the minds of a great many Indians.
> 
> To end my submission, make of this what you will; from where I stand, there is no reason, no justification, no moral or legal foundation to select politically loaded terms that have a context only in an effort to reclaim the ground lost by listless diplomacy in the past, and in an attempt to make the most of the singularly uncivil government that we have to suffer.
> 
> Needless to add, I will doubtless presently, like my Nigerian exemplar, have it explained to me very clearly.



Just one thing, the Sangh parivar has always been relevant and influential in India. Political victories have come and gone but it is a social force since a very longtime. Even in 2014, it had multiple state governments and Rajya Sabha members. It is a different issue that the ruling party had sheer hatred and contempt for a large social organisation and that brought them down.



M. Sarmad said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM ..
> 
> @masterchief_mirza is right, context is important
> There's absolutely nothing wrong in using word _Gangu _or _Gangadeshi_ for Bharatis/Ganga dwellers
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be forgetting that you are on a Pakistani forum, our dear Gangu friend



Where will Indian Punjabis and Rajasthan and Gujaratis get classified? They are.not Gangus either.



KhanBaba2 said:


> Hindustan is derived from the word Indus. So if you call us Gangadeshi, you become Hindustani. Nothing to do with the religion. It has to do with geography.



The name of our country is Bharat and Bharat only.

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## KhanBaba2

vegav said:


> The name of our country is Bharat and Bharat only.



I am not talking of any country. I am talking of Hindustan, the land where the Sindhu flows.


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## vegav

KhanBaba2 said:


> I am not talking of any country. I am talking of Hindustan, the land where the Sindhu flows.



That was not a name given by the citizens but outsiders.


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## KhanBaba2

vegav said:


> That was not a name given by the citizens but outsiders.



I too am an outsider to the people of Sindu. If they insist on calling me Gangadeshi, I will call them Hindustani. At least one of us will be accurate.


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## TheGreatMaratha

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> its a discussion thread. We can’t discuss the word unless we use the word. Please limit reporting to the main forum for now, not a thread used for getting feedback on the word itself.


I haven't reported anywhere when 'Gangu'/'Gangadesh' was being discussed, I only reported when he used that word against me. He wasn't clearly discussing the word. 

Anyway, it's your forum and the final decision is for you to take. Just let us know that what we say will not be taken seriously so that I won't even take the effort to report these things. Thanks.


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## Pakistani Fighter

Axomiya_lora said:


> gedas


who are these?


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## namefield_empty

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> who are these?


You are a geda too!! It translates to a young male in my native tongue.

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## doorstar

masterchief_mirza said:


> Likewise, "jihadi" isn't necessarily an insult.


 I'm afraid it is, it almost always used as a synonym foterrorist. there is no such word in Arabic [in this context], brothers SC and AgNoStiC MuSliM will confirm that the one doing jihad is a mujahid, 2+ are mujahideen. jihadi is an injun a superpower2012 invention that has crept in to the English language via 100s and 100s of European/American/even Pakistani looking superpower2012 websites

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## El Sidd

General Bakhshi may struggle to last a day if these words are banned.


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## doorstar

Aswaklanta D said:


> Dada moi koisu he je mur okhubidha nai.
> Kukure Tu bhukiye thakibo. Thakok





Axomiya_lora said:


> Dhet teri
> 
> Etia buji palu, ihotor logot kotha pota mane sika mari haath gundhuwa...





Aswaklanta D said:


> Thike koise dada.
> Iman matha gorom hoi,,, jata koi thake.


@ AgNoStiC MuSliM how come these here father and son team are allowed to converse in shonar language in an English thread but the eagle won't allow us to use any language other than English anywhere?


> Iman matha gorom hoi,,, jata koi thake.


is that a typo for Imran, you fragrance of spice you?

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## jamahir

vegav said:


> The name of our country is Bharat and Bharat only.



Not to take this thread off-topic, what's wrong with 'India' ?


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## vegav

jamahir said:


> Not to take this thread off-topic, what's wrong with 'India' ?



Nothing wrong but Bharat will be perfect


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## jamahir

vegav said:


> Nothing wrong but Bharat will be perfect



I prefer 'India'. That is how everyone in the world knows it and it's a secular name.


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## The SC

doorstar said:


> I'm afraid it is, it almost always used as a synonym for terrorist. there is no such word in Arabic, brothers SC and AgNoStiC MuSliM will confirm that the one doing jihad is a mujahid, 2+ are mujahideen. jihadi is an injun invention that has crept in to the English language via 100s and 100s of European/American/even Pakistani looking bharati websites


That is right it is Mujahid.. as Jihadi in Arabic means "My Jihad".. so it has a Hitler's like connotation of " _Mein Kampf " _Hitler's book of 1928..


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## masterchief_mirza

Naofumi said:


> Exactly, Pakistanis should be fine with "Panju", is not it?


It's inaccurate. We're not all punjabis - simple. However, in the secular republic of India, the river Ganges is described by Modi and adherents of hindu nationalism thus:


*India's dying mother*
*by Justin Rowlatt*







The Ganges is one of the greatest rivers on Earth, but it is dying.

From the icy Himalayan peaks, where it begins, right down to the Bay of Bengal, it is being slowly poisoned.

The Ganges is revered in India but it is also the sewer that carries away the waste from the 450 million people who live in its catchment area.

Pollution from the factories and farms of the fastest-growing large economy in the world – and from the riverside cremation of Hindu true believers - has turned its waters toxic.

The Indian Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, promised two years ago to clean up the Ganges, but can he do it?

Can the sacred mother of Hinduism be saved?



















*The Swami*





The source of the Ganges lies among the soaring, snow-clad peaks of the Himalayas.

As a rose-pink dawn rises over the jagged teeth of the mountains, the valley where the river begins remains in deep shadow.

It takes hours for the sun to scale the great crags. Only then does a single shaft of sunlight finally penetrate into the chasm.

It strikes a glacier called Gangotri, suddenly illuminating its cloudy blue and white depths.

It is easy to understand why this is one of the most sacred sites in all Hinduism. Up here in the cold fresh air the great shimmering body of frozen water appears radiantly pure.







At the foot of the glacier there is a cave in the ice. This is “Gaumukh”, the cow’s mouth, and the chuckling stream of crystal clear icy water that emerges from it is the beginning of the Ganges.

_Ma Ganga_, it is known in Hindi: “Mother Ganges”. It’s an apt name - the Ganges has nurtured and supported the rise of Indian civilisation.

As the stream snakes down from the mountains it gathers pace and volume, joined by hundreds of others bringing snowmelt from the vast Himalayan watershed.

But studies show that even here in the Himalayas the water is becoming increasingly polluted.

And the further you descend, the more pronounced the legendary river’s problems become.

In the holy city of Rishikesh, Swami Chidanand Saraswati is leading the evening _aarti_, a Hindu fire ceremony.





He is an irrepressibly cheerful man, the flickering light of the butter candles he circles in front of him twinkle in his eyes as he chants and sings along with the music. About 50 monks take part, watched by a couple of hundred devotees.

These river aartis are a celebration of the Ganges. A similar ritual is performed in towns and villages all along the 2,500km-long (1,500-mile) river.

All day pilgrims have been descending to the water to bathe, part of an ancient ritual of purification.

*Hindus revere the Ganges as a god. They believe she came down from heaven to cleanse the Earth*, and that bathing in her waters can wash away a person’s sins.

The Swami has built the ashram into a huge enterprise. He glances down modestly when I ask how many followers he has. “Perhaps a million,” he replies. But his demeanour changes when I ask about pollution in the river. His brow furrows.

Too many people think the Ganges not only purifies sin but also has the power to cleanse itself, he says.



**
Sitting here by the Ganga I can tell you, before we take a bath in the Ganga we need to give Ganga a bath.”



“People think Ganga can take care of my sins, can take care of anything, and they forget that while Ganga can take care of your sins it cannot take care of your waste, of your pollution.”







Campaigning for a serious effort to clean the river, he says, occupies most of his time. He is in no doubt that India is killing the Ganges, “killing its own mother”, he says, and he is determined to save her.



**
For me *if Ganga dies, India dies. If Ganga thrives, India thrives.”*



The prime minister, Narendra Modi, a Hindu nationalist, also sees cleaning up the Ganges as nothing less than a mission from God.

*“Ma Ganga has called me,” *he told the crowd at his victory celebration, when he was swept to power in a landslide victory two years ago.

“She has decided some responsibilities for me. Ma Ganga is screaming for help, she is saying I hope one of my sons gets me out of this filth,” he said. “It is possible it has been decided by God for me to serve Ma Ganga.”

........
I suppose a case could be made for non-Hindus refusing to be called "gangadeshis" since the river Ganga is not of direct importance per se. However, even then, Indian non-Hindus cannot deny the centrality of Ma Ganga to Indian development politically as a nation state.

@TheGreatMaratha I don't know why you're getting annoyed at me. I'm telling it how I see it. If it comes down to some kind of vote, so be it. You still haven't explained _why _Ganga and its derivatives is unacceptable to you as a descriptor of geographic and geopolitical origins, when used entirely without malicious intent.

I am happy that Pakistanis are in fact "Indian" with specific regard to the IVC, but the term "India" stands usurped and misappropriated and that cannot be undone even in a few years - it would entail a massive national project akin to the Greece-Macedonia dispute. Pakistan doesn't have the time for that hence that is my reason for not being able to accept the confusing descriptor "Indian" to describe the IVC lineages at this point in time. We're not all "Punjabi" for obvious reasons so you can't call all Pakistanis that either. Finally, "Hindustani" while being a variant of Industani and hence historically reasonable, is rendered unacceptable at this point in time because of its appropriation both by the nation state India and by the religion "Hinduism". Pakistan cannot be regarded as "Hindustan" for both those reasons and the confusion that will exist because of the appropriation of those terms by (a) a faith group and (b) another nation state. So, since Ganga and its derivatives are available and not appropriated elsewhere, my question about why it's offensive still stands.

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## Nilgiri

TheGreatMaratha said:


> When we have the words 'India', 'Hindustan', 'Bharat', there's no need for the use of 'Gangadesh'. There's no official word called 'Gangadesh'.
> 
> Really? Are you sure?
> 
> It's up to the mods/you people to decide whether 'jihadi' as a word is an insult in this forum or not. We are not deciding it for you.
> 
> Why should I explain anything to you? We Indians don't want the usage of 'Gangadesh' on the forum. We Indians will decide that, right? Maybe we can take a poll among ourselves.
> 
> I certainly don't want 'Gangadesh' as a word to be used.
> 
> @vegav @jamahir @Gandhi G in da house @Joe Shearer @ChennaiDude @Nilgiri @KhanBaba2 @Axomiya_lora @Naofumi @Mad Scientist 2.0



It's not really something I'm going to participate in much discussion about. Let PDF admins do what they feel best, and measure the results....and re-adjust later etc... They be the bosses.

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## doorstar

The SC said:


> That is right it is Mujahid.. as Jihadi in Arabic means "My Jihad".. so it has a Hitler's like connotation of " _Mein Kampf " _Hitler's book of 1928..


 thanks that is right.
ee sound at the end of word denotes my eg. ukht; akh; am; ab; habib and so on


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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

"India" a polished Turd...

A word or region that brought up so many fantasies ... Europeans couldn't have their eggs seasoned with plain salt(which itself was a currency), they wanted black pepper. Now that salt has done a number on me I just throw some black dust on my omelet. In desperation they set sail... and found America! Good for India bad for America. Imagine puritans landing on the coast of Kerala and today's wannabes living in reservations on tribal land. Besides, becoming home to all the disparate persecuted European communities. 

They did find India not much later and later colonized much of south, south east and east Asia... again using India quite liberally... no copyrights back then. Little did they know of a people who once Europeans left picked up that turd and polished it again to suit their own narrative. Another case of identity theft but this time knowingly and quiet blatant. Doesn't it constitute power projection or historical/civilizational claim over a land they sit right next to?

All the while the land actually home to Indus and all that euphoria sits off the limelight... perhaps more abundant in salt than pepper.

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## The SC

doorstar said:


> thanks that is right.
> ee sound at the end of word denotes my eg. ukht; akh; am; ab; habib and so on


Yes exactly..

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## Nilgiri

This word is banned for sure:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sylheti-is-a-language-on-its-own-right.663760/page-9#post-12311988

Yet its been reported a few times already and nothing being done.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Nilgiri said:


> This word is banned for sure:
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sylheti-is-a-language-on-its-own-right.663760/page-9#post-12311988
> 
> Yet its been reported a few times already and nothing being done.


I really thought that particular word was pretty obviously unacceptable.warning issued, post deleted.

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## Nilgiri

Also wondering if "LOW IQ" and "IQ 72" used as blanket identity attack on individual ought to be banned too?

An example:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/nepa...fter-demo-turns-violent.665324/#post-12311077

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## undercover JIX

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Dear Members,
> 
> After some discussion and review, PDF staff has unanimously decided to ban the use of the following words on the forum:
> 
> *Porkistan (or derivatives like Porkistani, Porki):*
> Reason: Derogatory reference to Pakistan & Pakistanis
> 
> *Gangu and it's derivatives like 'Gangustan':*
> Reason: A native or inhabitant of Gangetic plains (River Ganges in India).
> Often used by Pakistanis as a racial slur. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Madrassa Chaap:*
> Reason: Derogatory reference for Muslims/Pakistanis.
> 
> *50 Cent Army:*
> Reason: Derogatory term used for China/Chinese
> 
> *Pajeet:*
> Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Ghaati:*
> Reason: A derogatory term used to describe people of the maharashtrian descent or maharashtra region in India. (Per Urban Dictionary)
> 
> *Jihadi (by non-Muslims):*
> Reason: The word Jihad in Islam means 'to struggle' whereas Jihadi used as a derogatory reference to Muslims, conflated in contemporary culture with terrorists.
> 
> *Bangu , Bangler , Bangla lala land , Bongoli*
> Reason: Derogatory terms used for Bangladeshis
> *
> *
> If ANY of our members come across any other words that have a derogatory meaning, please let the forum staff know so we can review. We have members from around the world here, reflecting different cultures, so we need your assistance in identifying, understanding and banning derogatory words.
> 
> Thanks





In my humble opinion, this whole exercise is unnecessary. 
Most of them are normal conversational words, we know how we talk in our cultures of both sides of the border. 

This is going to over whelm and flood the form with Reports and MODS are going to be over loaded and frustrated, and when that happens, PDF will go back to same old state where no actions were taken and reports ignored.

You can see what is happening to this thread, and others, since this discussion started.

We have seen Indian level of trolling in their numbers from usual Sanghi to highly educated articulated trolling, and because of their sheer numbers on PDF, Media outlets and on Internet, they will always have a benefit. 

Now we have good number of MODS and they are trying to keep things in order. 
This too much of banning the words will reverse the step taken in the positive direction. 

What can be done is, PDF management can add serious type of words gradually and continuously based on their own judgment.

Take actions on the reports on their judgement case to case basis and going through the thread to see what caused /led to this situation etc...

involving members in these type of decisions is not a good idea. especially when dealing with our respected neighbors.

ultimately its Pakistan Defence Forum and no matter what, Pakistani narrative and interests should be the priority. Indians are welcome here, but as a guest only, and in any civilized society guest has to abide by the host rules and adopt and be respectful. Guest can not behave in a similar manner how they behave in their own home (Bharat Rakshak) and can not ask the same rights as the hosts.

This thread should be closed and PDF Management should work it out internally.

just imagine, Indian IQ and Low IQ has become offensive and slur to most of Indians, after this thread and realizing PDF can be manipulated so easily.

I tried, I hope you will understand my point even when I am not able to express myself properly......you know gulabi angraizi.

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## TheGreatMaratha

masterchief_mirza said:


> @TheGreatMaratha I don't know why you're getting annoyed at me. I'm telling it how I see it. If it comes down to some kind of vote, so be it. You still haven't explained _why _Ganga and its derivatives is unacceptable to you as a descriptor of geographic and geopolitical origins, when used entirely without malicious intent.


I don't know how many times I have to tell you this. Saying 'Gangadesh' is akin to calling Pakistan as Arabia. You guys consider regions of Arabia very important, right? So should we call you Arabis, or Arabidesh or Arabistan? Calling 'Gangadesh' makes people living in other areas excluded. I'm not going to repeat this now.



jamahir said:


> I prefer 'India'. That is how everyone in the world knows it and it's a secular name.


All three 'India', 'Bharat' and 'Hindustan' are perfect. While speaking in Marathi, we always say 'Bharat'/'Hindustan' as India just sounds plain weird. While speaking in English, we always say 'India' as 'Bharat'/'Hindustan' sounds plain weird. I've observed this while people speak Hindi as well. Simply put, we can use any based on which language we are using. All 3 are secular according to me.

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## KAL-EL

Austin Powers thinks the word “skittles” should be banned.

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## Dual Wielder

KAL-EL said:


> Austin Powers thinks the word “skittles” should be banned.



Either he tasted the rainbow and it was not to his taste, or he ventured off trying to find the pot of gold at the end of one with no avail..


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## undercover JIX

TheGreatMaratha said:


> Saying 'Gangadesh' is akin to calling Pakistan as Arabia.


Sri Ganga Ma flows within Bharat, Hindustan, India......and is very near and dear to all Hindus, if not all Indians. while Pakistan is not even part of the Middle East or even share border with any Arab land.

But we sure has ancient River Indus flowing through Pakistan...find a word using "Indus".

So please try to make some sense, someone gave you a chance to voice your opinion, at least try to use a little of your ancient wisdom.

I hope, I did not say anything offensive which you can report.

infestation overload.

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## masterchief_mirza

TheGreatMaratha said:


> Saying 'Gangadesh' is akin to calling Pakistan as Arabia


Apologies as I don't intend to annoy you. No Arabian land, feature or river exists in Pakistan. No Arabian land, feature or river is regarded as Ma Pakistan. If you called us "Arabistan" it would be a factually flawed descriptor - even if without malevolent intent.

Unlike the river Ganges, your analogy simply does not hold water.

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## undercover JIX

masterchief_mirza said:


> Unlike the river Ganges, your analogy simply does not hold water.


desperation overload.

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## masterchief_mirza

undercover JIX said:


> In my humble opinion, this whole exercise is unnecessary.
> Most of them are normal conversational words, we know how we talk in our cultures of both sides of the border.
> 
> This is going to over whelm and flood the form with Reports and MODS are going to be over loaded and frustrated, and when that happens, PDF will go back to same old state where no actions were taken and reports ignored.
> 
> You can see what is happening to this thread, and others, since this discussion started.
> 
> We have seen Indian level of trolling in their numbers from usual Sanghi to highly educated articulated trolling, and because of their sheer numbers on PDF, Media outlets and on Internet, they will always have a benefit.
> 
> Now we have good number of MODS and they are trying to keep things in order.
> This too much of banning the words will reverse the step taken in the positive direction.
> 
> What can be done is, PDF management can add serious type of words gradually and continuously based on their own judgment.
> 
> Take actions on the reports on their judgement case to case basis and going through the thread to see what caused /led to this situation etc...
> 
> involving members in these type of decisions is not a good idea. especially when dealing with our respected neighbors.
> 
> ultimately its Pakistan Defence Forum and no matter what, Pakistani narrative and interests should be the priority. Indians are welcome here, but as a guest only, and in any civilized society guest has to abide by the host rules and adopt and be respectful. Guest can not behave in a similar manner how they behave in their own home (Bharat Rakshak) and can not ask the same rights as the hosts.
> 
> This thread should be closed and PDF Management should work it out internally.
> 
> just imagine, Indian IQ and Low IQ has become offensive and slur to most of Indians, after this thread and realizing PDF can be manipulated so easily.
> 
> I tried, I hope you will understand my point even when I am not able to express myself properly......you know gulabi angraizi.


Sir this is an excellent post - gulabi or no gulabi.

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## undercover JIX

masterchief_mirza said:


> Sir this is an excellent post - gulabi or no gulabi.


Thank you Sir Ji, Shukar hai kisi ko to samajh aai meri angraizi ki.

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## KAL-EL

Dual Wielder said:


> Either he tasted the rainbow and it was not to his taste, or he ventured off trying to find the pot of gold at the end of one with no avail..



I concur.. 

He’s probably more of a gummy bear Individual anyway


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## TheGreatMaratha

undercover JIX said:


> Sri Ganga Ma flows within Bharat, Hindustan, India......and is very near and dear to all Hindus, if not all Indians. while Pakistan is not even part of the Middle East or even share border with any Arab land.
> 
> But we sure has ancient River Indus flowing through Pakistan...find a word using "Indus".
> 
> So please try to make some sense, someone gave you a chance to voice your opinion, at least try to use a little of your ancient wisdom.
> 
> I hope, I did not say anything offensive which you can report.
> 
> infestation overload.


I knew I would get this response and I wanted this kind of a response. It's just ridiculous, right? Calling you Arabidesh/Arabistan/Arabis when you ditched even the local script?

I'll go one level down in ridiculousness now. How will it feel if we call you Punjabistan/Pashtunistan? Will the others who are not Punjabi/Pashtun get offended?


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## undercover JIX

TheGreatMaratha said:


> I knew I would get this response and I wanted this kind of a response. It's just ridiculous, right? Calling you Arabidesh/Arabistan/Arabis when you ditched even the local script?
> 
> I'll go one level down in ridiculousness now. How will it feel if we call you Punjabistan/Pashtunistan? Will the others who are not Punjabi/Pashtun get offended?


you are rightly calling it ridiculousness, no comparison....similarity,,,,,

Please try again and think before you post. I assume you are smart enough to know and I do not need to explain. 
Thanks

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## TheGreatMaratha

undercover JIX said:


> you are rightly calling it ridiculousness, no comparison....similarity,,,,,
> 
> Please try again and think before you post. I assume you are smart enough to know and I do not need to explain.
> Thanks


Are you trolling yourself here?

My last question and reply for you.


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## undercover JIX

TheGreatMaratha said:


> Are you trolling yourself here?
> 
> My last question and reply for you.


no.
seems you are lost within your own trolling.

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## IMARV

Astonishing to see people trying to justifying calling nationals with a name they are not comfortable to be called as. Any degree of civility will tell you that you call people with names they like to be called with and not with what you feel they should be called.

Moreover are we in a race to invent words and then call each other by those? Do we have any history of people in this part of south asia called as Gangu, even in Pakistan?

Identities are not enforced, neither people accept them on the fly.

@AgNoStiC MuSliM after pages of "allowed discussion", have you arrived to conclusion yet?

Is it an acceptable generic rule to post fix "i", "oo", "u" etc to a holy/common name, and then call people with that? How long you think it will take to escalate from a holy river to holy land to holy persons?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

IMARV said:


> Astonishing to see people trying to justifying calling nationals with a name they are not comfortable to be called as. Any degree of civility will tell you that you call people with names they like to be called with and not with what you feel they should be called.
> 
> Moreover are we in a race to invent words and then call each other by those? Do we have any history of people in this part of south asia called as Gangu, even in Pakistan?
> 
> Identities are not enforced, neither people accept them on the fly.
> 
> @AgNoStiC MuSliM after pages of "allowed discussion", have you arrived to conclusion yet?


If the words are still on the list, they're not allowed.

There are obviously some common slurs that are not on the list that we expect posters to realize are not acceptable without being on the list (the N-word for example).

With respect to the argument by some Pakistani posters that the word 'India' is derived from 'Indus' which is in Pakistan, not India, I would suggest using the terms Bharat/Bharatis, Hindustan/Hindustanis.


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## IMARV

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> With respect to the argument by some Pakistani posters that the word 'India' is derived from 'Indus' which is in Pakistan, not India, I would suggest using the terms Bharat/Bharatis, Hindustan/Hindustanis.



That's a unique kind of argument I am hearing that people somehow get feeling of copyright violation if someone keep a name influenced by an object which exist in there country. People name their kids influenced by other region, languages and even religion. Isn't the case with Pakistanis?

Not even getting into argument that after partition some part of IVC still falls into Indian territory. The name India came into existence when Pakistan doesn't exist as a nation. Once the name exists, anyone can use the name who likes it, how come its etymology restrict the use? Pakistan should have contested to keep this name if they liked. You didn't, we did. Its not trademarked.

Rather it should a matter of pride for Pakistan.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

IMARV said:


> That's a unique kind of argument I am hearing that people somehow get feeling of copyright violation if someone keep a name influenced by an object which exist in there country. People name their kids influenced by other region, languages and even religion. Isn't the case with Pakistanis?
> 
> Not even getting into argument that after partition some part of IVC still falls into Indian territory. The name India came into existence when Pakistan doesn't exist as a nation. Once the name exists, anyone can use the name who likes it, how come its etymology restrict the use? Pakistan should have contested to keep this name if they liked. You didn't, we did. Its not trademarked.
> 
> Rather it should a matter of pride for Pakistan.


There are a few threads on this topic with some excellent posts/arguments. I suggest going through them in order to avoid this thread getting hijacked.


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## Joe Shearer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If the words are still on the list, they're not allowed.
> 
> There are obviously some common slurs that are not on the list that we expect posters to realize are not acceptable without being on the list (the N-word for example).
> 
> With respect to the argument by some Pakistani posters that the word 'India' is derived from 'Indus' which is in Pakistan, not India, I would suggest using the terms Bharat/Bharatis, Hindustan/Hindustanis.



I have an humble submission to make.


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## ChennaiDude

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If the words are still on the list, they're not allowed.
> 
> There are obviously some common slurs that are not on the list that we expect posters to realize are not acceptable without being on the list (the N-word for example).
> 
> With respect to the argument by some Pakistani posters that the word 'India' is derived from 'Indus' which is in Pakistan, not India, I would suggest using the terms Bharat/Bharatis, Hindustan/Hindustanis.



How about- INDIOT- Below is the latest one as of today.

Today at 3:56 PM#13



*NasrFULL MEMBER*





Messages:
1,021
Joined:
Dec 9, 2018
Ratings:
+3 / 1,869 / -1








New
↑
so you are stating india didnt lobby to stop rd-93 transfer because jf-17 wasnt abig deal
My dear brother, there no shortage of idiots india. That's why we call them indiots!!


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Joe Shearer said:


> I have an humble submission to make.


Proceed kind sir


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## undercover JIX

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If the words are still on the list, they're not allowed.
> 
> There are obviously some common slurs that are not on the list that we expect posters to realize are not acceptable without being on the list (the N-word for example).
> 
> With respect to the argument by some Pakistani posters that the word 'India' is derived from 'Indus' which is in Pakistan, not India, I would suggest using the terms Bharat/Bharatis, Hindustan/Hindustanis.


strange creatures INDIANS are, preaching civility and ethics....

I would suggest (Humble Submission), Indians can start from home. 
Indian Defence Forums and on all over social Media we have witnessed civilized Indians and their behaviour. 

Even PDF has become troll fest because of Indian nonsensical behaviour.

Please do not dictate ethics, Manners or civility here on PDF, because this plateform is not meant to become toothless and Indian propaganda site, PDF must have certain level of allowance to counter deserving Indians.
You can not come here on PDF and insult our Armed Force, Shaheeds, make fun of Islam, Insult Pakistan and Pakistanis,propagate your false narrative and propaganda etc..... 

it does not matter, if you use slurs, derogatory words or highly sophisticated literature straight from Shakespeare.......what matters is your intent and motive.

PDF management understands very well (I assume), how Indians gang up like a mob to subdue the weak, now question is, if PDF management is weak or strong to counter Indians here.

Most of the Indians behave like lynching mobs, and rest are the the actual players who stay in the background and encourage and instigate, while wearing a nice, civilized mask to be accepted by all. 

There are some well behaved India members and no one calls them with any name, everyone respects them.

Simple advise is, do not behave and show your style of Indian civility and manners here, put forward your and argument and point in a civilized manner (Not the Indian Bharat rakshash, social media and Andh Bhakt Sangi mob manners) and no one will have any reason to call you any names.

I understand, both sides need to show good behaviour in order to make PDF progressive and respected internationally.....For that, we have a whole Army of Moderators. Previously PDF did not have enough Moderators especially keeping in mind the different time zones ,,,sometimes hours and hours used to go without any Moderator being online, and those were the times Indians will post and behave the worst....

Now since we have good number of Mods, things are progressing positively.
But, This does not suit Majority of Indians and reasons we all know.....

@Joe Shearer is very upset with the New Moderators Team because of their swift actions to control misbehaving members, and with @waz because waz started it all and took very strong stand against Indians after IOK issue. These are not allegations, he has expressed these feeling in multiple threads.

Moderators are doing an excellent job and PDF is on the right track. Now to please Indians do not go overboard..Pakistanis will not be happy (minus some) and this PDF will become Indian propaganda tool, 

and that will be one more victory for them......."PDF GHARWAPSI" their are so many different reasons for which someone can accept gharwapsi.....Now question is, Is their any Good Enough reason for PDF.....

I will stop, already tooo longggggg.....I am/was not even member of any debate team...and I hate essay writing...

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

doorstar said:


> if that wer true would the likes of joe the bengali white gentleman and his new sidekick nilgiri be allowed to constantly wipe the floor with Pakistan and Pakistan-flag displayers? in one post you see them flattering/fellating some senior mod, in another you will see joe using the head of a junior as a mop, yet in another you will see him slandering Pakistan
> 
> BTW. it is also very very likely the joe inglish is gonna be made a moderator of upcoming sub-forum dedicated to durga mata i.e bharatvarsh



Bingo. @undercover JIX


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## undercover JIX

Jungibaaz said:


> This is my point exactly, a few of them killed their own forums by not giving opposing members enough space to debate. And a lack of civility or too much hostility against 'foreign' members drives them away in droves. More generally too, high quality posters and professional members are also driven away by this sort of atmosphere. IMO, this in particular is why PDF has been so successful, and this is what those other forums failed to do.



We are not denying them space, we are all for giving opposing members space for healthy discussions, but without any strict control they will make this forum similar to their own. Without any Danda most of the Indians tends to resort to their famous civilized behaviour.

on one of their leader said, outside world's Human rights, ethics does not apply to India.

Give them the freedom of speech and space, issue is how much and at what cost...

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## doorstar

undercover JIX said:


> strange creatures INDIANS are, preaching civility and ethics....
> 
> I would suggest (Humble Submission), Indians can start from home.
> Indian Defence Forums and on all over social Media we have witnessed civilized Indians and their behaviour.
> 
> Even PDF has become troll fest because of Indian nonsensical behaviour.
> 
> Please do not dictate ethics, Manners or civility here on PDF, because this plateform is not meant to become toothless and Indian propaganda site, PDF must have certain level of allowance to counter deserving Indians.
> You can not come here on PDF and insult our Armed Force, Shaheeds, make fun of Islam, Insult Pakistan and Pakistanis,propagate your false narrative and propaganda etc.....
> 
> it does not matter, if you use slurs, derogatory words or highly sophisticated literature straight from Shakespeare.......what matters is your intent and motive.
> 
> PDF management understands very well (I assume), how Indians gang up like a mob to subdue the weak, now question is, if PDF management is weak or strong to counter Indians here.
> 
> Most of the Indians behave like lynching mobs, and rest are the the actual players who stay in the background and encourage and instigate, while wearing a nice, civilized mask to be accepted by all.
> 
> There are some well behaved India members and no one calls them with any name, everyone respects them.
> 
> Simple advise is, do not behave and show your style of Indian civility and manners here, put forward your and argument and point in a civilized manner (Not the Indian Bharat rakshash, social media and Andh Bhakt Sangi mob manners) and no one will have any reason to call you any names.
> 
> I understand, both sides need to show good behaviour in order to make PDF progressive and respected internationally.....For that, we have a whole Army of Moderators. Previously PDF did not have enough Moderators especially keeping in mind the different time zones ,,,sometimes hours and hours used to go without any Moderator being online, and those were the times Indians will post and behave the worst....
> 
> Now since we have good number of Mods, things are progressing positively.
> But, This does not suit Majority of Indians and reasons we all know.....
> 
> @Joe Shearer is very upset with the New Moderators Team because of their swift actions to control misbehaving members, and with @waz because waz started it all and took very strong stand against Indians after IOK issue. These are not allegations, he has expressed these feeling in multiple threads.
> 
> Moderators are doing an excellent job and PDF is on the right track. Now to please Indians do not go overboard..Pakistanis will not be happy (minus some) and this PDF will become Indian propaganda tool,
> 
> and that will be one more victory for them......."PDF GHARWAPSI" their are so many different reasons for which someone can accept gharwapsi.....Now question is, Is their any Good Enough reason for PDF.....
> 
> I will stop, already tooo longggggg.....I am/was not even member of any debate team...and I hate essay writing...


this here banned word malarkey just a con, an excuse to delete posts that show superpower2012 in a bad light. if it were just about me using 'injuns' to describe the superpower people, it would have simply been added to a script that changes a banned word into an acceptable one

Iran was being somewhat excessively maligned and I came up with a post to put things in-to perspective and may have used the word inadvertently due to force of habit but.... got smacked in the head by some genius

Yesterday 
Your post in the thread What does Iran gain from letting RAW use its territory? was deleted. Reason: Please refrain from using banned words. 8:24 PM

a lot more are deleted on the quite without issuing a notice

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## undercover JIX

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If the words are still on the list, they're not allowed.
> 
> There are obviously some common slurs that are not on the list that we expect posters to realize are not acceptable without being on the list (the N-word for example).
> 
> With respect to the argument by some Pakistani posters that the word 'India' is derived from 'Indus' which is in Pakistan, not India, I would suggest using the terms Bharat/Bharatis, Hindustan/Hindustanis.



Ganga is their National River, as well as very sacred for them, so what is wrong with Gangadeah? 

Indus is National River of Pakistan, they can call us Industan, Indusland, I dont think any Pakistani will object to this...We are proud of our heritage National symbols...we do not feel shame or insulted if someone assocoate us with them.



doorstar said:


> Yesterday
> Your post in the thread What does Iran gain from letting RAW use its territory? was deleted. Reason: Please refrain from using banned words. 8:24 PM


do you remember what banned word I used?

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## doorstar

undercover JIX said:


> do you remember what banned word I used?


was it what translates to 'fragrance of spice'?

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## Joe Shearer

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Proceed kind sir



I can do so gladly, but it really is a diversion from the topic. From this summary, if you consider the matter and decide what is to be done, these brief points may be expanded.


_There is considerable confusion about the structure of cultural development in south Asia. One model suggested [@Indus Pakistan ] has been a dyadic one: that culture developed in parallel along the Indus and the Ganga-Yamuna valleys. This is mistaken._
_Cultural development in south Asia took place along eight separate river valleys. These are, starting with the Indus to be courteous:_
_The Indus Valley_
_The Ganga-Yamuna Valley_
_The Brahmaputra Valley_
_The Mahanadi Valley_
_The Godavari Valley_
_The Krishna Valley_
_The Kaveri Valley_
_The Tungabhadra Valley_
_The Narmada Valley_

_Unfortunately, due to the seat of power in north India being in Delhi, due to the domination of north India seeming to be the primary goal of imperium according to those who first began to record the history of India as histories, due to the failure of other river valley cultures to represent themselves in these histories, Indian history is usually written as the history of north India with brief looks at other locations, cultures, politically powerful entities, and kings and emperors._
_If we take a balanced view of these cultural developments, we will find that the order of priority is actually closer to the following:_
_The Ganga-Yamuna Valley - the Mauryas, the Guptas, the Sultanate and its five dynasties, the Mamaluk Turks, Khilji,Tughlaq, Sayyid and Lodi, the Mughals, and the regional sultanates of Jaunpur and Bengal; _
_The Narmada Valley - the Chalukyas_
_The Kaveri Valley - the Cholas, most prominently_
_The Indus Valley - a border land, where every conqueror established his first bridgehead, for an assault on the interior: the Achaemenids, the Bactrian Greeks, the Saka-Pahlava, the Kushana, the Ephthalites, the Arabs, the Durrani, the Sikh;_
_All the others; none of them, except Kharavela from the Mahanadi Valley, dominated India for long. The Brahmaputra Valley was so cut off from the rest that it allowed the inception and growth of the longest dynasty in Indian history - the Ahom Kings, who ruled for 6 centuries. The Godavari, Krishna and Tungabhadra gave birth to brilliant regional cultures and kingdoms, too numerous and prolific to be noted, but too peripheral to the mainstream of imperium to matter._

_The Dyadic Model is an incomplete representation of Indian cultural development, but is enormously relevant in terms of offering a core identity to an Indus-Valley based nation-state; I have supported it for that vital reason from its first emergence._
_That apart, the question of India, vs. Bharat vs. Hindustan/Hind, is a red herring that frequently darts across these discussions. How India emerged is well-known, better known in canonical history than in the version offered here - the definition of the Sindhu by the Indo-Aryans, from their earlier word meaning Great Waters, most probably a reference to the Oxus-Jaxartes/Amu Daria-Syr Daria complex; its pronunciation by the Indo-Iranians as Hindu, parallel to the other examples of Saraswati/Haraovati or Asura/Ahura; its appropriation by the Greeks who wandered the Achaemenid Empire as citizens, prior to the Alexandrine conquests; its expansion beyond the river and its catchment area to the entire hinterland (cf. Menander's Indika, where Patna is vividly described, in describing India); and its appropriation, in turn, by the general mass of European and Middle Eastern commentary, as India or as Hind. _
_The difficulty of India being a political label, as well as geographical as well as cultural, is underestimated. India as a political label was always used by the West - essentially the Europeans - but never by its own people, a distinction as significant or as insignificant as the diversity of nomenclature about Deutschland/ Allemagne/ Germania._
_Another difficulty that arises, and has been very prominent on this forum, is the inability to compress all the significant features of cultural India into a tight description, that can be understood by all, even if accepted by only some; the inability to compress the earlier phases of history as a collection of identical faith-systems, of equally-applicable philosophical explorations, of artistic forms in music, in two variations, and dance, in seven variations,of literature, a central 'high' literature and regional variations of great complexity, of architecture, in two variations, of theogony, in three streams proposed by some external savants as independent, or at least autonomous, of concepts of kingship and administration and rule; indeed, of a tight package of belief and practice that was universal to the entire cultural space. It must be emphasised that even after the incursion of the Turks, and the inception of a concept of state referring to other models from outside south Asia, there was a dissemination of these concepts throughout the cultural space that displays unity at least at the conceptural plane._
_Finally, the current controversy, Jinnah's sudden realisation, right at the end, that by stipulating Pakistan to be an independent Dominion, he had created a situation where the statute that implemented the decision spoke of an India from which a Pakistan was separated out, not a coalescence of two independent Dominions around two different poles of concentration._
_For these historical and cultural reasons, it is best to put the name India out of the discussion, as also Bharat or Hind, and to accept the usage India for nation-state, larger geography with several nation-states, and larger cultural superordinate area, covering a common culture with many regional variations._

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## undercover JIX

doorstar said:


> was it what translates to 'fragrance of spice'?



I used something like " Fragrance of Curry"

I did not use any of the banned versions....lol ok atleast now I know some Indian feels insulted by the word Curry.

what happened to " Fragrance of Spice" ? its not deleted and reported. so someone wants me to get banned????lol

*Mod* needs to revisit and un delete my post, it was not response to any Indian....you and I was chatting.

Now you see, how Mahaan Indians want to play, PDF management needs to be very careful when dealing with Indians here.

Now Mahaan is a banned word too????? any way Indian Curry and its fragrance is world famous....no...? so why so ashamed....

but India wins again......my post post delete..

*Pajeet:*
Reason: A slang / racial slur for a smelly dirty curry drinking hairy Indian that poos in the loo. (Per Urban Dictionary)

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## Joe Shearer

undercover JIX said:


> strange creatures INDIANS are, preaching civility and ethics....
> 
> I would suggest (Humble Submission), Indians can start from home.
> Indian Defence Forums and on all over social Media we have witnessed civilized Indians and their behaviour.
> 
> Even PDF has become troll fest because of Indian nonsensical behaviour.
> 
> Please do not dictate ethics, Manners or civility here on PDF, because this plateform is not meant to become toothless and Indian propaganda site, PDF must have certain level of allowance to counter deserving Indians.
> You can not come here on PDF and insult our Armed Force, Shaheeds, make fun of Islam, Insult Pakistan and Pakistanis,propagate your false narrative and propaganda etc.....
> 
> it does not matter, if you use slurs, derogatory words or highly sophisticated literature straight from Shakespeare.......what matters is your intent and motive.
> 
> PDF management understands very well (I assume), how Indians gang up like a mob to subdue the weak, now question is, if PDF management is weak or strong to counter Indians here.
> 
> Most of the Indians behave like lynching mobs, and rest are the the actual players who stay in the background and encourage and instigate, while wearing a nice, civilized mask to be accepted by all.
> 
> There are some well behaved India members and no one calls them with any name, everyone respects them.
> 
> Simple advise is, do not behave and show your style of Indian civility and manners here, put forward your and argument and point in a civilized manner (Not the Indian Bharat rakshash, social media and Andh Bhakt Sangi mob manners) and no one will have any reason to call you any names.
> 
> I understand, both sides need to show good behaviour in order to make PDF progressive and respected internationally.....For that, we have a whole Army of Moderators. Previously PDF did not have enough Moderators especially keeping in mind the different time zones ,,,sometimes hours and hours used to go without any Moderator being online, and those were the times Indians will post and behave the worst....
> 
> Now since we have good number of Mods, things are progressing positively.
> But, This does not suit Majority of Indians and reasons we all know.....
> 
> @Joe Shearer is very upset with the New Moderators Team because of their swift actions to control misbehaving members, and with @waz because waz started it all and took very strong stand against Indians after IOK issue. These are not allegations, he has expressed these feeling in multiple threads.



Only an absolute idiot would interpret my reactions in this way. On the contrary, I welcome the new team and their swift and effective action, and am appreciative of the surgery that @waz undertook, in spite of its drastic nature. I am sorry that there is an essential difference between our modes of expression of this third language not native to either of us, and our comprehension of it, that has led to these laughably contrary conclusions.



> Moderators are doing an excellent job and PDF is on the right track. Now to please Indians do not go overboard..Pakistanis will not be happy (minus some) and this PDF will become Indian propaganda tool,
> 
> and that will be one more victory for them......."PDF GHARWAPSI" their are so many different reasons for which someone can accept gharwapsi.....Now question is, Is their any Good Enough reason for PDF.....
> 
> I will stop, already tooo longggggg.....I am/was not even member of any debate team...and I hate essay writing...



You need not spend unnecessary space explaining you were not member of any debate team; it is superfluous. It is also clear that essay-writing is not the task that you have been trained for, or are designed to do. By all means, stick to simple pejorative and invective, and continue as you have done.

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## undercover JIX

Joe Shearer said:


> Only an absolute idiot would interpret my reactions in this way. On the contrary, I welcome the new team and their swift and effective action, and am appreciative of the surgery that @waz undertook, in spite of its drastic nature. I am sorry that there is an essential difference between our modes of expression of this third language not native to either of us, and our comprehension of it, that has led to these laughably contrary conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> You need not spend unnecessary space explaining you were not member of any debate team; it is superfluous. It is also clear that essay-writing is not the task that you have been trained for, or are designed to do. By all means, stick to simple pejorative and invective, and continue as you have done.


you can twist it however you want, its your nature.
your burn in a special place contradicts your bollywood twist.

your fancy writing can not hide the fragrance anymore.

Your are exposed and resorting to your Indianess level by using personal attacks and insults. I am amused, how innocent Pakistanis thought you were a sane person all these years.

refrain from idiotic behaviour or you will be treated and responded accordingly.

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## Joe Shearer

undercover JIX said:


> you can twist it however you want, its your nature.
> your burn in a special place contradicts your bollywood twist.
> 
> your fancy writing can not hot hide the fragrance.
> 
> Your are exposed and resorting to your Indianess level by using personal attacks and insults. I am amused, how innocent Pakistanis thought you were a sane person all these years.
> 
> refrain from idiotic behaviour or you will be treated and responded accordingly.



Best ask for a translator; it may help in discussion.

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## undercover JIX

Joe Shearer said:


> Best ask for a translator; it may help in discussion.


you are not capable of any discussion, you re accustomed Indians...one sided crap. your ulterior motives are well known here now.

i can smell the fragrance...


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## Joe Shearer

undercover JIX said:


> you are not capable of any discussion, you re accustomed Indians...one sided crap. your ulterior motives are well known here now.
> 
> i can smell the fragrance...



True, true. You have convinced everybody that your nose is your major organ of thought. Now may we continue?


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## doorstar

undercover JIX said:


> Your are exposed and resorting to your Indianess level by using personal attacks and insults. I am amused, how innocent Pakistanis thought you were a sane person all these years..


I've been shouting nathuram, nathuram on here for a long time

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## IMARV

undercover JIX said:


> We are not denying them space, we are all for giving opposing members space for healthy discussions, but without any strict control they will make this forum similar to their own. Without any Danda most of the Indians tends to resort to their famous civilized behaviour.
> 
> on one of their leader said, outside world's Human rights, ethics does not apply to India.
> 
> Give them the freedom of speech and space, issue is how much and at what cost...



What kind of "Danda" you can give to Indians over internet? Calling them names?

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## undercover JIX

Joe Shearer said:


> True, true. You have convinced everybody that your nose is your major organ of thought. Now may we continue?


true, my nose is my major organ....

But your Backhole is your major organ.....show more of your indianess..go ahead.

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## Joe Shearer

doorstar said:


> I've been shouting nathuram, nathuram on here for a long time



No problem with that. Why should a larynx be considered less worthy than a nose?



undercover JIX said:


> true, my nose is my major organ....
> 
> But your Backhole is your major organ.....show more of your indianess..go ahead.



A good match.


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## undercover JIX

IMARV said:


> What kind of "Danda" you can give to Indians over internet? Calling them names?


ask english man @Joe Shearer the master of twist....

Danda is strict moderation....read again



Joe Shearer said:


> A good match.



I am not an Indian. keep your fantasies and delusions to yourself

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## Joe Shearer

undercover JIX said:


> ask english man @Joe Shearer the master of twist....
> 
> Danda is strict moderation....read again
> 
> 
> 
> I am not an Indian. keep your fantasies and delusions to yourself



Your word, not mine. You know best where to put your most sensitive efforts.


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## undercover JIX

doorstar said:


> I've been shouting nathuram, nathuram on here for a long time


nathuram is hurt and bleeding.....



Joe Shearer said:


> Your word, not mine. You know best where to put your most sensitive efforts.


its clear master of delusion, instigation, twist, and a failure to comprehend even a simple sentence and follow conversation.



stop exposing yourself more.

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## IMARV

undercover JIX said:


> ask english man @Joe Shearer the master of twist....
> 
> Danda is strict moderation....read again



Unilateral? While enjoying impunity and call Indians names?

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## undercover JIX

IMARV said:


> Unilateral? While enjoying impunity and call Indians names?


read the post again na man.....

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Crusher said:


> I am not offended by any words in the OP. Only people with low self-esteem get offended by such words, if you are on internet you have to develop thick skin and not carry fragile ego. You might ban these words here on this forum, but they will still be used somewhere else on the internet which would be out of your control, so who cares. By the way "Gangu" has been my favorite word for indians and I thank @Indus Pakistan for developing this legendary word for indians, I just love it to describe indians.



Gangu is a very versatile word, it can be used as a noun, adverb, adjective, or one word reply.

Most of all it is magical in its descriptive properties as it erases all the smokes and mirrors.

However, it may need to be modified by us to be acceptable to our mods.



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I can't see an issue with Gangadeshi (vs Gangudeshi), which literally translates to inhabitants of the Ganga.
> 
> Not sure what the others think.



Is this a license to use Gangadesh again? Similarly is Ganga, Gangadeshi ok?

I stopped using Gangu, which was my preferred descriptor anytime any Indian trolls tried to appropriate Pakistani history, culture, and civilization.

Regrettable Ganges-origin does not have the same ring.



TheGreatMaratha said:


> I knew I would get this response and I wanted this kind of a response. It's just ridiculous, right? Calling you Arabidesh/Arabistan/Arabis when you ditched even the local script?
> 
> I'll go one level down in ridiculousness now. How will it feel if we call you Punjabistan/Pashtunistan? Will the others who are not Punjabi/Pashtun get offended?



Red herrings, nothing else.



undercover JIX said:


> strange creatures INDIANS are, preaching civility and ethics....
> 
> I would suggest (Humble Submission), Indians can start from home.
> Indian Defence Forums and on all over social Media we have witnessed civilized Indians and their behaviour.
> 
> Even PDF has become troll fest because of Indian nonsensical behaviour.
> 
> Please do not dictate ethics, Manners or civility here on PDF, because this plateform is not meant to become toothless and Indian propaganda site, PDF must have certain level of allowance to counter deserving Indians.
> You can not come here on PDF and insult our Armed Force, Shaheeds, make fun of Islam, Insult Pakistan and Pakistanis,propagate your false narrative and propaganda etc.....
> 
> it does not matter, if you use slurs, derogatory words or highly sophisticated literature straight from Shakespeare.......what matters is your intent and motive.
> 
> PDF management understands very well (I assume), how Indians gang up like a mob to subdue the weak, now question is, if PDF management is weak or strong to counter Indians here.
> 
> Most of the Indians behave like lynching mobs, and rest are the the actual players who stay in the background and encourage and instigate, while wearing a nice, civilized mask to be accepted by all.
> 
> There are some well behaved India members and no one calls them with any name, everyone respects them.
> 
> Simple advise is, do not behave and show your style of Indian civility and manners here, put forward your and argument and point in a civilized manner (Not the Indian Bharat rakshash, social media and Andh Bhakt Sangi mob manners) and no one will have any reason to call you any names.
> 
> I understand, both sides need to show good behaviour in order to make PDF progressive and respected internationally.....For that, we have a whole Army of Moderators. Previously PDF did not have enough Moderators especially keeping in mind the different time zones ,,,sometimes hours and hours used to go without any Moderator being online, and those were the times Indians will post and behave the worst....
> 
> Now since we have good number of Mods, things are progressing positively.
> But, This does not suit Majority of Indians and reasons we all know.....
> 
> @Joe Shearer is very upset with the New Moderators Team because of their swift actions to control misbehaving members, and with @waz because waz started it all and took very strong stand against Indians after IOK issue. These are not allegations, he has expressed these feeling in multiple threads.
> 
> Moderators are doing an excellent job and PDF is on the right track. Now to please Indians do not go overboard..Pakistanis will not be happy (minus some) and this PDF will become Indian propaganda tool,
> 
> and that will be one more victory for them......."PDF GHARWAPSI" their are so many different reasons for which someone can accept gharwapsi.....Now question is, Is their any Good Enough reason for PDF.....
> 
> I will stop, already tooo longggggg.....I am/was not even member of any debate team...and I hate essay writing...



Great post brother, you have hit all points nicely. Nothing left for me to say.

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## undercover JIX

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Great post brother, you have hit all points nicely. Nothing left for me to say.


someone is really burning here because of that post.

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## Joe Shearer

undercover JIX said:


> nathuram is hurt and bleeding.....



Ah, the close examination begins....




> its clear master of delusion, instigation, twist, and a failure to comprehend even a simple sentence and follow conversation.



This MUST be the reason.



> stop exposing yourself more.



Perhaps you will find watching a **** film more rewarding.

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## undercover JIX

Joe Shearer said:


> Perhaps you will find watching a **** film more rewarding.


let me know when you produce new one. after all that is your main business.

free advertisement on PDF????

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## Joe Shearer

undercover JIX said:


> let me know when you produce new one. after all that is your main business.
> 
> free advertisement on PDF????



Without those obsessed with watching these, and sitting around moping for the next release, the industry would not exist.

Thank you for your support.


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## undercover JIX

Joe Shearer said:


> Without those obsessed with watching these, and sitting around moping for the next release, the industry would not exist.
> 
> Thank you for your support.



first part of your post is assumption, and second part is where you existence depends.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

undercover JIX said:


> someone is really burning here because of that post.



Leave them for now, I am sure Mods know their antics.

They fashion themselves as dons of this forum, then target Pakistani and pro-Pakistani posters.

@Shantanu_Left Is their latest target.

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## undercover JIX

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Leave them for now, I am sure Mods know their antics.
> 
> They fashion themselves as dons of this forum, then target Pakistani and pro-Pakistani posters.
> 
> @Shantanu_Left Is their latest target.


Do not worry, let him continue.....

He is just showing his true colours.....its good. more he carries on...more we will know what was hidden under Mr. Intellectual.

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## Joe Shearer

undercover JIX said:


> first part of your post is assumption, and second part is where you existence depends.



Your keen and undivided attention is on public display; no assumption there. My existence does depend to some extent on support; without performing fleas, life would be dull.


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## Shantanu_Left

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Leave them for now, I am sure Mods know their antics.
> 
> They fashion themselves as dons of this forum, then target Pakistani and pro-Pakistani posters.
> 
> @Shantanu_Left Is their latest target.



I request the mod's to have a common sense policy in receiving some of the complaints. I have a habit of hyperbole (who doesn't) and exaggerate my compliments or criticism. But some of that has landed me in hot water recently. 

I have promised not to use racist generalizations, especially which demean a community. 

And thanks for the back-up @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan In my line of work, I have to deal with tons of Indians everyday. That is why I am sometimes extra nasty to them here. It's the work anger. But I will try to control it.

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## waz

undercover JIX said:


> you can twist it however you want, its your nature.
> your burn in a special place contradicts your bollywood twist.
> 
> your fancy writing can not hide the fragrance anymore.
> 
> Your are exposed and resorting to your Indianess level by using personal attacks and insults. I am amused, how innocent Pakistanis thought you were a sane person all these years.
> 
> refrain from idiotic behaviour or you will be treated and responded accordingly.



Brother he approved my actions that day, even though he didn't have to. 
Let's leave it please.

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## IMARV

undercover JIX said:


> read the post again na man.....



I did, in fact twice. The essence of post lies in -

1. Indians dont deserve civility and thus they can not demand it
2. If Admins ban slurs/racial remark, the forum will become toothless and cant counter Indians. This is in fact insulting to learned Pakistani members who count on content more than abuse 

But not all was disheartening in your post, the below point of yours have weight too



> Simple advise is, do not behave and show your style of Indian civility and manners here, put forward your and argument and point in a civilized manner (Not the Indian Bharat rakshash, social media and Andh Bhakt Sangi mob manners) and no one will have any reason to call you any names.



However, will you contest my observation that posters are using these slangs/slurs too freely even when they are not responding to any foul mouthing individual? Isn't it being used to target even those who are not even posting but just reading the content?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

undercover JIX said:


> Do not worry, let him continue.....
> 
> He is just showing his true colours.....its good. more he carries on...more we will know what was hidden under Mr. Intellectual.



I saw it the first time when they were talking about Kashmiris in a derogatory manner, I think Mods hit the jackpot in banning that kind of discourse.

If we can relay which subjects are off-limits on PDF, it will stifle Indian trolls greatly.

All I want is to be able to use Gangadeshi, as it is a great part of my own ideology as a Pakistani and a descendant of the IVC. Our identity has been usurped and stolen, we need to fight back and re-introduce Pakistan to the world. When we explain to people the nuances of the Indus and Ganges, people will start to understand what Pakistan is, and conversely what India is.

This whole concocted history of 'united India will fall to pieces.

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## undercover JIX

Joe Shearer said:


> Your keen and undivided attention is on public display; no assumption there. My existence does depend to some extent on support; without performing fleas, life would be dull.


your keen and undivided attention was to mask and hide your true personality, which failed and you exposed your true personality by the choice of words.

That can be NO assumption for you only if you have bill of sale for your productions on my name.....you seem very sure that it was not an assumption......

your performance is always behind the scenes.....only you know......and your assurance says it.

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## WebMaster

All kinds of name calling is banned as it is not productive to discussions. We are not going to debate over this, regards.

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