# Afghanistan begins to export products directly to India for the first time



## Sher Malang

*Afghanistan begins to export products directly to India for the first time in its history*

Afghanistan&#8217;s export activities through the ChabaharPort in southeastern Iran officially began on Saturday.

*The port serves as the best alternative to the Pakistan&#8217;s Karachi Port where export activities were constantly interrupted by political restrictions and high storage cost.*

*&#8220;But it doesn&#8217;t mean an end to exports via the Wagah border between Pakistan and India. However, the Chabahar option is more economical and profitable for Afghanistan,&#8221; Pajhwok Afghan News quotes Abdul Qadeer Mustafa, spokesman to the Export Promotion Agency of Afghanistan (EPAA).*

The Port of Chabahar is a seaport in Chahbahar in southeastern Iran. Its location lies on the border of Indian Ocean and Oman Sea. It is the only Iranian port with direct access to ocean.

Afghanistan will be able to export its products directly to India, Kazakhstan, Gulf and European states in an efficient manner.

According to Mr. Mustafa, this would be Afghanistan&#8217;s first time in its history to directly dispatch products to India.

*Located 72km west of Pakistan&#8217;s Gwardar port, Chabahar port holds immense strategic and economic significance for India.*

India&#8217;s interest in Chabahar came after China had expressed interest in taking the Gwadar port in Pakistan.

In a trilateral meeting last year, India, Afghanistan and Iran discussed ways to expand trade and economic ties among the three countries starting, with Chabahar being the main focus.

*Source:* Afghanistan begins to export products directly to India for the first time in its history | Wadsam

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## karan.1970

Nice ... Slowly, but steadily...

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## Fireurimagination

What products do Afghanistan exports to India?


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## Sher Malang

There will be another very good news soon - the Aqina port will be inaugurated and will connect Afghanistan directly to Europe via Turkmenistan! 

The port of Hairatan which connects Afghanistan to central Asia is completely functional too

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## Black Widow

Fireurimagination said:


> What products do Afghanistan exports to India?





Minirals...



Sher Malang said:


> There will be another very good news soon - the Aqina port will be inaugurated and will connect Afghanistan directly to Europe via Turkmenistan!
> 
> The port of Hairatan which connects Afghanistan to central Asia is completely functional too





Business are one of the key ingredient of development... Hope Afghan become peaceful again..

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## karan.1970

So now India and trade with Afg/CAR and vice versa, completely bypassing Pakistan ?

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## Sher Malang

Fireurimagination said:


> What products do Afghanistan exports to India?



Organic fruits, dry fruits, saffron, rugs, mines and minerals for the time being.

But India can export many products to Afghanistan lets hope this bilateral trade hits $1bln within a year!



karan.1970 said:


> So now India and trade with Afg/CAR and vice versa, completely bypassing Pakistan ?



Yes  and we can secretly have secret deals

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## Anonymous_CryptoSpy

m kind of soooo happy within.. smiling secretly.

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## Splurgenxs

linking Afghan and Iran in one swoop , totally bypassing the Pakistani mainland... very significant achievement which is bound to pay dividends for many many years to come.



> Located 72km west of Pakistan&#8217;s Gwardar port, Chabahar port holds immense strategic and economic significance for India.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/afghan...-directly-india-first-time.html#ixzz2aJVbGh58



This effectively checkmates Gwadar's significance as a dock for Chinese presence in the IOR .

We gain plausible reason to be manning our military vessels just 72 km ahead of gwadar, beyond our own territorial waters ,while staying in the diplomatic ambit of Iran . And as our trade with Iran and Afg increases so will our diplomatic relations ..

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## kingkobra

Great news for Afghanistan-India-Iran

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## Anonymous_CryptoSpy

so after mission Agfano-Iran next comes mission Turkey

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## kaykay

News of the day for me. Lets do some business.

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## agamdilawari

Afghanistani dry fruits are very famous in India...cheers to this good news . Bypassing middlemen is always nice, be it in domestic issues or internationally

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## Icewolf

Afghanistan is still #1 exporter of Pakistan.
If Pakistan closes border with Afg, Afghanistan economy will collapse, even if it has other to trade with.

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## Echo_419

Sher Malang said:


> Organic fruits, dry fruits, saffron, rugs, mines and minerals for the time being.
> 
> But India can export many products to Afghanistan lets hope this bilateral trade hits $1bln within a year!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes  and we can secretly have secret deals




I will keep in mind To buy something made in Afghanistan

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## my2cents

Icewolf said:


> Afghanistan is still #1 exporter of Pakistan.
> If Pakistan closes border with Afg, Afghanistan economy will collapse, even if it has other to trade with.



how much of Pakistani exports go Afg??


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## karan.1970

Icewolf said:


> Afghanistan is still #1 exporter of Pakistan.
> If Pakistan closes border with Afg, Afghanistan economy will collapse, even if it has other to trade with.



.. take care of your own economy (which is pretty much in the dump) first before threatening someone else's

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## Icewolf

karan.1970 said:


> .. take care of your own economy (which is pretty much in the dump) first before threatening someone else's



Like your economy is doing wonders 
Dont quote me again



my2cents said:


> how much of Pakistani exports go Afg??



Let me give you a idea
*Kandahar, Afghanistans biggest city in economic size, uses the PKR.*

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## Gautam

Icewolf said:


> Like your economy is doing wonders
> Dont quote me again
> 
> 
> 
> Let me give you a idea
> *Kandahar, Afghanistans biggest city in economic size, uses the PKR.*



The bold part has more to do with lack of options, just like Pakistan used to use INR. Otherwise, even Pakistan won't like to use PKR.


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## karan.1970

Icewolf said:


> Like your economy is doing wonders



2nd fastest growing among trillion dollar economies.. and not needing any IMF bailouts

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## Pulsar

Excellent news! 

Here's some info for those interested:

*India is developing the port and will spend over $100 million in development of the port's infrastructure.* It is the only Iranian port with direct access to the ocean. The growing commercial sector located at the free trade area has high potentiality to turn it into a hub *that would connect business growth centers in south Asia (India) and Middle East (Dubai) to central Asian and Afghanistan markets.*







Afghanistan being a land-locked country, most of its international trade is being done through Pakistani sea-ports. Therefore, India wished to connect to Afghanistan via an alternative route (through Iran). So, a trilateral agreement was signed among India, Iran and Afghanistan.

Under this agreement:

> Iran is to build a highway from Chabahar (a Port City of Iran) up to Afghanistan border.
*> India is to build a road connecting Delaram (border city of Afghanistan) to Zaranj (Capital of Nimruz province of Afghanistan).*






Further, the establishment of the port and its connection to the country&#8217;s railway plan, is under study and consideration. With the completion of the Kerman&#8211;Zahedan railway and its connection to the port of Chabahar, this port will connect to the Trans-Iranian Railway. *India is finalizing a plan to construct the 900-km railway line that will connect Chabahar port in Iran, being built with Indian help, to the mineral-rich Hajigak region of Afghanistan*.






Good going India!  

Cheers!

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## Rafi

karan.1970 said:


> 2nd fastest growing among trillion dollar economies.. and not needing any IMF bailouts



There is a serious hunger problem in india, which I have seen with my own eyes, the average indian is malnourished and it is not getting better whenever I go back to india.

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## Icewolf

Gautam said:


> The bold part has more to do with lack of options, just like Pakistan used to use INR. Otherwise, even Pakistan won't like to use PKR.



Pakistan used INR?

And PKR is doing good than INR which btw is very very lose to junk rating...

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## Pulsar

Rafi said:


> *There is a serious hunger problem in india*, which I have seen with my own eyes, the average indian is malnourished and it is not getting better whenever I go back to india.


Serious hunger problem in india? *But how about Pakistan? Get your own house in order first before pontificating to others. 
*


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## Pukhtoon

Go Afghanistan Go Export Chars and other drugs .. ISI you are doing great lol

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## karan.1970

Icewolf said:


> Pakistan used INR?
> 
> And PKR is doing good than INR which btw is very very lose to junk rating...



and PKR already has the Junk rating

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## Pulsar

Icewolf said:


> Afghanistan is still #1 exporter of Pakistan.
> *If Pakistan closes border with Afg, Afghanistan economy will collapse*, even if it has other to trade with.


Gimme a break! Trade between Afghanistan and Pakistan is hardly worth a mention - a paltry $2 billion!! That's slightly more than the cost of Mukesh Ambani's house in Mumbai!!

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## Icewolf

karan.1970 said:


> 2nd fastest growing among trillion dollar economies.. and not needing any IMF bailouts



It looks good on paper...
But When 70% of your cuntry lives below 2 dollars a day...
I would expect you not to brag about economy size...

Kya boltay hai Gujarati mai?
Pothanee ghar ma tikhano nathi, avigayo mithai baatwane...

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## Anonymous_CryptoSpy

thread will be created within 10 years

*STRING OF PEARLS VS ROPE OF DIAMONDS*

 Afgan-Iran-Israel-Vietnam-Japan


(PS BD mite get tied to this rope once teesta/bsf issues are resolved)


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## karan.1970

Icewolf said:


> It looks good on paper...
> But When 70% of your cuntry lives below 2 dollars a day...
> I would expect you not to brag about economy size...
> 
> Kya boltay hai Gujarati mai?
> Pothanee ghar ma tikhano nathi, avigayo mithai baatwane...



Dude, yours doesnt even look good on paper .. So your priority should be fixing that instead of finding faults with your neighbors' ..

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## Gautam

Icewolf said:


> Pakistan used INR?
> 
> And PKR is doing good than INR which btw is very very lose to junk rating...



Yes, Indian rupees were stamped with Government of Pakistan to be used as legal tenders in the new state of Pakistan in 1947. Heck even Rupiah is a word derived from Sanskrit. 

And please check the PKR ratings.



Icewolf said:


> It looks good on paper...
> But When 70% of your cuntry lives below 2 dollars a day...
> I would expect you not to brag about economy size...
> 
> Kya boltay hai Gujarati mai?
> Pothanee ghar ma tikhano nathi, avigayo mithai baatwane...



Lol is your mother tongue Gujarati?


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## Pulsar

Icewolf said:


> Kya boltay hai Gujarati mai?
> Pothanee ghar ma tikhano nathi, avigayo mithai baatwane...


*Arre yaar! Thu kyun ithna pissed off ho raha hai?* Hum Afghanistan-Iran-India trade ke bare men discuss kar rahe hain aur thu taang beech men kyon adda raha hai?


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## Sher Malang

@Pulsar, as karan said we are slow and steady the railway line is next + Iran has given major trade opportunities to Afghan businessmen to lure them from importing via Karachi and very soon the Aqina port will be functional like never before and will give us greater access directly to Europe + the port will be connected with railway line soon:

Aqina port - Ministry of Commerce and Industries

Construction of Mazar-e-Sharif-Aqina Railway Project Inaugurated

Construction of Afghan-Turkmenistan Railway to Begin

Aqina port revenue up by 57%- Afghan officials | Wadsam

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## Icewolf

Gautam said:


> Yes, Indian rupees were stamped with Government of Pakistan to be used as legal tenders in the new state of Pakistan in 1947. Heck even Rupiah is a word derived from Sanskrit.
> 
> And please check the PKR ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol is your mother tongue Gujarati?



Afghanistan in 2013 is a little better than 1947 Pakistan.

Afghani cities have been using PKR since Soviets ran out.


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## Gautam

Icewolf said:


> Afghanistan in 2013 is a little better than 1947 Pakistan.
> 
> Afghani cities have been using PKR since Soviets ran out.



Common man, Afghanistan is a war torn country. Just like you had no option but to use Indian currencies when you were partitioned from India, the similar situation is there for Afghanistan i.e. lack of options. That's my point.

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## MohitV

Icewolf said:


> It looks good on paper...
> But When 70% of your cuntry lives below 2 dollars a day...
> I would expect you not to brag about economy size...
> 
> Kya boltay hai Gujarati mai?
> Pothanee ghar ma tikhano nathi, avigayo mithai baatwane...




have you guys noticed that non of the indians in this thread have mocked pakistani economy....inspite of having so many poor in our country...such a huge population v r dealing with .....still we are a trillion dollar economy which is growing quite fast though there are so many obstacles.....rupee is falling only bcoz of our sickular leadership....u guys do not have a huge poverty problem or population problem....what are you people doing ????

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## karan.1970

Icewolf said:


> Afghanistan in 2013 is a little better than 1947 Pakistan.



Considering that many(even within Pakistan) consider Pakistan of 2013 much worse than Pakistan of 1947, that's not saying much

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## Icewolf

Gautam said:


> Common man, Afghanistan is a war torn country. Just like you had no option but to use Indian currencies when you were partitioned from India, the similar situation is there for Afghanistan i.e. lack of options. That's my point.



Thats exactly what Im saying... 
Afghanistan without Pakistan cannot survive



MohitV said:


> have you guys noticed that non of the indians in this thread have mocked pakistani economy....



Read the second page please.


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## indiatester

Rafi said:


> There is a serious hunger problem in india, which I have seen with my own eyes, the average indian is malnourished and it is not getting better whenever I go back to india.



Rafi,

Whenever you see such problems with you eyes. Please feel free to inform me. I will do my bit to help the needed family.
I feel guilty with so many of you going around finding hungry people when I don't find then in my village, Bangalore or Hyderabad.

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## Icewolf

karan.1970 said:


> Considering that many(even within Pakistan) consider Pakistan of 2013 much worse than Pakistan of 1947, that's not saying much



And India of 1756 is better than India of 2013.


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## Gautam

Icewolf said:


> Thats exactly what Im saying...
> Afghanistan without Pakistan cannot survive


I heard even US bills are accepted widely along with PKR. Yes they are kind of dependent on you at this time, but won't you like to wish that they do it on their own? 

You too were dependent on India once but then you stood up. That is what gonna happen eventually.


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## blood

now i understand why india is keeping good relations with iran despite US pressure,
A> oil
B> afghanistan trade


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## karan.1970

Icewolf said:


> And India of 1756 is better than India of 2013.



But you guys say that there was no India before 1947.. You need to make up your mind

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## Gautam

indiatester said:


> Rafi,
> 
> Whenever you see such problems with you eyes. Please feel free to inform me. I will do my bit to help the needed family.
> *I feel guilty with so many of you going around finding hungry people when I don't find then in my village, Bangalore or Hyderabad.*


Lol haha...................

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## MohitV

Icewolf said:


> Thats exactly what Im saying...
> Afghanistan without Pakistan cannot survive
> 
> 
> 
> Read the second page please.




oh come on.....if a dog barks on you does tat mean u will bark on him too......what does tat make u ??....so ignore such people....we indians already suffer a lot of insults over here.....u r a sensible man n perhaps more experienced than i am....so u should know all this better than me....peace


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## S.A.

*Afghanistan begins to export products directly to India for the first time in its history*

My only question is how *directly*?

Currently they are using Pakistani port, now they will use Iranian, so how is this directly???



Splurgenxs said:


> We gain plausible reason to be manning our military vessels just 72 km ahead of gwadar, beyond our own territorial waters ,while staying in the diplomatic ambit of Iran . And as our trade with Iran and Afg increases so will our diplomatic relations ..



I am doubtful that India can/will use this port for military purpose... Correct me if I am wrong...



agamdilawari said:


> Afghanistani dry fruits are very famous in India...cheers to this good news . Bypassing middlemen is always nice, be it in domestic issues or internationally




Which middle man they are bypassing.... they are only trying to change the middleman...

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## t_for_talli

Sher Malang said:


> Organic fruits, dry fruits, saffron, rugs, mines and minerals for the time being.
> But India can export many products to Afghanistan lets hope this bilateral trade hits $1bln within a year!
> Yes  and we can secretly have secret deals



Afgani dry fruits are very famous in India
I remember in CBSE primary school curriculum there was a story called "Kabuliwali" about a Afgani dry fruits trader

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## Shardul.....the lion

karan.1970 said:


> Nice ... Slowly, but steadily...



Slow and steady wins the race....

But the point is are we steady enough?????
Can we do something to protect ANA and current afghan system from getting demolished.????
Can we get benefits of bring benefactor to Afghan govt in next 4-5 year???


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## That Guy

Sher Malang said:


> @Pulsar, as karan said we are slow and steady the railway line is next + Iran has given major trade opportunities to Afghan businessmen to lure them from importing via Karachi and very soon the Aqina port will be functional like never before and will give us greater access directly to Europe + the port will be connected with railway line soon:
> 
> Aqina port - Ministry of Commerce and Industries
> 
> Construction of Mazar-e-Sharif-Aqina Railway Project Inaugurated
> 
> Construction of Afghan-Turkmenistan Railway to Begin
> 
> Aqina port revenue up by 57%- Afghan officials | Wadsam



First off, using known unreliable sources is a bad idea, yes, I include anyone from the Afghan gov too, because they have no idea what's going on half the time.

Second, you're making a lot of assumptions. This will happen assuming the Afghan gov and ANA can actually survive a post-NATO withdrawal long enough to have lasting affects on the Afghan economy, and I can tell you that it'll take at least another 10 years for that to happen, without any interruptions and continued foreign funding.

Third, you're also assuming that the US will tolerate Afghanistan cozying up to Iran, even if the Indian are watching over the whole proces. The US and India still aren't at the level of trust yet to actually rely on each other, and considering that India is not foolish, this level of trust will not happen for the foreseeable future, simply because India has looked at the US's attitude towards it's supposed allies and doesn't trust the US.

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## Capt.Popeye

Anonymous_CryptoSpy said:


> m kind of soooo happy within.. smiling secretly.



Why secretly?  You can smile openly.......... 
But let us not forget Iran at this moment. Iran helped to make this happen. Iran facilitated this and Iran can really help in the role of stabilising and re-building Afghanistan.
The people who under-estimate Iran's importance in the region will only do so at their own peril. Even the USA needs to wake up to this reality. Though I know that they already are beginning to; India has woken up Uncle Sam to that fact.
 @Sher Malang; Congratulations to you and your fellow citizens. Hope that this spells the beginning of better times for Afghanistan.

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## Capt.Popeye

t_for_talli said:


> Afgani dry fruits are very famous in India
> I remember in CBSE primary school curriculum there was a story called "Kabuliwali" about a Afgani dry fruits trader



"Kabuliwalla" was a very famous story written by Tagore. Go looking for the old movie (in B&W) that was made on this story. It starred Balraj Sahani as the Kabuliwalla. It is an accurate portrayal of some the qualities of people in Afghanistan: simple and resolute, unswerving, honest and loyal. A very touching story; with great music by S.D.Burman based loosely on Afgan music and instruments such as the Rabab. The song by Manna Dey: 'Aye mere pyaare watan' where the Kabuliwalla remembers his beloved country and his family in Afghanistan is a classic. The story and the film (in my opinion) is quite symbolic of the injustice that has been done to Afghanistan over the years.

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## karan.1970

S.A. said:


> *
> Currently they are using Pakistani port, now they will use Iranian, so how is this directly???
> 
> 
> 
> Which middle man they are bypassing.... they are only trying to change the middleman...*


*

Given the heavy involvement of India in Chabbar and in Afghanistan's infrastructure linking to Chabbar, the dealings would virtually be with India directly...*


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## Capt.Popeye

S.A. said:


> *
> I am doubtful that India can/will use this port for military purpose... Correct me if I am wrong...
> 
> Which middle man they are bypassing.... they are only trying to change the middleman...*


*

This port has no military purposes whatsoever! 
Firstly, India does not need that port militarily.
Secondly, Iran is very conscious of its sovereignty. Iran will not allow anybody to set up base there; they have too much Self-Respect to permit that.

Now about Middlemen; maybe Afghanistan has found a more honest and sincere Middleman now? 
Iran has harmed Afghanistan less than any other middleman.*


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## S.A.

karan.1970 said:


> Given the heavy involvement of India in Chabbar and in Afghanistan's infrastructure linking to Chabbar, the dealings would virtually be with India directly...



Afghanistan was/is already directly dealing with India, irrespective of Pakistani or Irani port.... so whats new in this so called *Directly for the first time*.... It was implied from the thread heading that Afghanistan has a port of its own now....



Capt.Popeye said:


> This port has no military purposes whatsoever!
> *Firstly, India does not need that port militarily.
> Secondly, Iran is very conscious of its sovereignty. Iran will not allow anybody to set up base there; they have too much Self-Respect to permit that.*



That what I was referring to.... your own country man mentioned this and I only gave my view on that.... 



Capt.Popeye said:


> Now about Middlemen; maybe Afghanistan has found a more honest and sincere Middleman now?
> Iran has harmed Afghanistan less than any other middleman.



May be.... May be not.... but still there is a middle man and Afghans have to rely on them...


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## Capt.Popeye

S.A. said:


> May be.... May be not.... but still there is a middle man and Afghans have to rely on them...



That is inevitable. As a land-locked country; Afghanistan will always have to depend on somebody to extend transit facilities, 'middlemen' as you choose to call them.
Now Afghanistan knows that it has more options. Is that not more reassuring for Afghanistan? Apart from that; Russia will also work to extend another transit route through the CARs. Another option then, though that is not the cheapest way. But it is definitely another way.
Now who will complain about that?


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## karan.1970

S.A. said:


> Afghanistan was/is already directly dealing with India, irrespective of Pakistani or Irani port.... so whats new in this so called *Directly for the first time*.... It was implied from the thread heading that Afghanistan has a port of its own now....
> 
> May be.... May be not.... but still there is a middle man and Afghans have to rely on them...



Well this time the reliability of the middle man is that much higher. So is its relationship with the customer (india). Plus Iran does not look at Afg for strategic depth..


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## Skull and Bones

Sher Malang said:


> Yes  and we can secretly have secret deals



No! How can you have deals with India secretly, man? In India, we announce them on national television before deeming them secret.

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## Splurgenxs

> I am doubtful that India can/will use this port for military purpose... Correct me if I am wrong...
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/afghan...irectly-india-first-time-3.html#ixzz2aKdIqjK3



THe port will not be used for military purpose , what im point at is the "option" to maneuver further from our coasts in a certain "securing our interest pretext" under the diplomatic ambit or Iranian regime. Its not an aggressive move but it forces the aggressor to maneuver cautiously so as to not offend more than one parties at once. 

Iran and Indian interests will be intertwined after this and so will the security of our shipping lanes. The end result is increased stability and nothing else.


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## S.A.

Capt.Popeye said:


> That is inevitable. As a land-locked country; Afghanistan will always have to depend on somebody to extend transit facilities, 'middlemen' as you choose to call them.



First of all, I never use the word "Middle man", it was reply to someone.... Refer to my first post....



karan.1970 said:


> Well this time the reliability of the middle man is that much higher. So is its relationship with the customer (india). Plus Iran does not look at Afg for strategic depth..



So you are agreeing that heading is wrong..... Afghanistan can never export or import directly (except from its neighbors) being a land locked country. There will always be a middle man for Afghanistan... This is another matter who is more reliable and who is not.....


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## acid rain

a55 Burn time. @Sher Malang, Any updates on the railroad? has work started yet?


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## Capt.Popeye

S.A. said:


> So you are agreeing that heading is wrong..... Afghanistan can never export or import directly (except from its neighbors) being a land locked country. There will always be a middle man for Afghanistan... This is another matter who is more reliable and who is not.....



No; I am not agreeing at all. You are seeing the word "directly" in a very limited "school-boyish way". 
In trade terms; "direct" means something else. 
Direct Trade is Trade that is directly arranged for and controlled by the two parties concerned. I.E. in all its implications, negotiations, setting of conditions and tariffs, arranging finances such as L.Cs, deciding what items to be traded etc etc.

That trade can pass through any mode(s) of transport or through any countries of transit. E.G. India trades with Switzerland (another land-locked country), part of that trade passes through the port of Genoa in Italy. But Italy has nothing to with the trade itself apart from recovering transit costs and taxes/duties. Italy cannot stop that trade.
That is Direct Trade. Similarly Nepal does Direct Trade with BD; though it passes through India.

Better informed now about Direct Trade?

Using the term middleman is ok to some extent. Because it is simply a "non-technical one". But Pakistan is some what of a middleman because it has tried to put barriers in Indo-Afghan trade.

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## qamar1990

Splurgenxs said:


> linking Afghan and Iran in one swoop , totally bypassing the Pakistani mainland... very significant achievement which is bound to pay dividends for many many years to come.
> 
> 
> 
> This effectively checkmates Gwadar's significance as a dock for Chinese presence in the IOR .
> 
> *We gain plausible reason to be manning our military vessels just 72 km ahead of gwadar, beyond our own territorial waters ,while staying in the diplomatic ambit of Iran . And as our trade with Iran and Afg increases so will our diplomatic relations ..:tup*:




only in your dreams lol,
iran pakistan pipeline and the 4 billion dollar refinery iran is going to build in gawadar is all I'm going to mention good bye.



Capt.Popeye said:


> No; I am not agreeing at all. You are seeing the word "directly" in a very limited "school-boyish way".
> In trade terms; "direct" means something else.
> Direct Trade is Trade that is directly arranged for and controlled by the two parties concerned. I.E. in all its implications, negotiations, setting of conditions and tariffs, arranging finances such as L.Cs, deciding what items to be traded etc etc.
> 
> That trade can pass through any mode(s) of transport or through any countries of transit. E.G. India trades with Switzerland (another land-locked country), part of that trade passes through the port of Genoa in Italy. *But Italy has nothing to with the trade itself apart from recovering transit costs and taxes/duties*. Italy cannot stop that trade.
> That is Direct Trade. Similarly Nepal does Direct Trade with BD; though it passes through India.
> 
> Better informed now about Direct Trade?
> 
> Using the term middleman is ok to some extent. Because it is simply a "non-technical one". But Pakistan is some what of a middleman because it has tried to put barriers in Indo-Afghan trade.




read the bolded part again, and it proves that direct trade isn't actually direct trade, there is a middleman.

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## qamar1990

karan.1970 said:


> 2nd fastest growing among trillion dollar economies.. and not needing any IMF bailouts




but still cant generate enough taxes to meet even 75% of its budget what shame lol.



Pulsar said:


> Excellent news!
> 
> Here's some info for those interested:
> 
> *India is developing the port and will spend over $100 million in development of the port's infrastructure.* It is the only Iranian port with direct access to the ocean. The growing commercial sector located at the free trade area has high potentiality to turn it into a hub *that would connect business growth centers in south Asia (India) and Middle East (Dubai) to central Asian and Afghanistan markets.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Afghanistan being a land-locked country, most of its international trade is being done through Pakistani sea-ports. Therefore, India wished to connect to Afghanistan via an alternative route (through Iran). So, a trilateral agreement was signed among India, Iran and Afghanistan.
> 
> Under this agreement:
> 
> > Iran is to build a highway from Chabahar (a Port City of Iran) up to Afghanistan border.
> *> India is to build a road connecting Delaram (border city of Afghanistan) to Zaranj (Capital of Nimruz province of Afghanistan).*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Further, the establishment of the port and its connection to the countrys railway plan, is under study and consideration. With the completion of the KermanZahedan railway and its connection to the port of Chabahar, this port will connect to the Trans-Iranian Railway. *India is finalizing a plan to construct the 900-km railway line that will connect Chabahar port in Iran, being built with Indian help, to the mineral-rich Hajigak region of Afghanistan*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good going India!
> 
> Cheers!




key word "going to"


its nothing but wet dreams as of now.


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## Cheetah786

Can we also export all afghans to India via chabahar



> Afghanistan begins to export products directly to India for the first time

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## qamar1990

Pulsar said:


> *Arre yaar! Thu kyun ithna pissed off ho raha hai?* Hum Afghanistan-Iran-India trade ke bare men discuss kar rahe hain aur thu taang beech men kyon adda raha hai?



lol, iran is with pakistan i hope you know.
it will back us before you or the afghanis if anything.



MohitV said:


> have you guys noticed that non of the indians in this thread have mocked pakistani economy....inspite of having so many poor in our country...such a huge population v r dealing with .....still we are a trillion dollar economy which is growing quite fast though there are so many obstacles.....rupee is falling only bcoz of our sickular leadership....u guys do not have a huge poverty problem or population problem....what are you people doing ????



trillion dollar economy is worthless with a billion people, if you had a 100 million people then it would be impressive.


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## qamar1990

Capt.Popeye said:


> Why secretly?  You can smile openly..........
> But let us not forget Iran at this moment. Iran helped to make this happen. Iran facilitated this and Iran can really help in the role of stabilising and re-building Afghanistan.
> The people who under-estimate Iran's importance in the region will only do so at their own peril. Even the USA needs to wake up to this reality. Though I know that they already are beginning to; India has woken up Uncle Sam to that fact.
> 
> @Sher Malang; Congratulations to you and your fellow citizens. Hope that this spells the beginning of better times for Afghanistan.



ok well, if israel attacks iran where will you be then?



Splurgenxs said:


> THe port will not be used for military purpose , what im point at is the "option" to maneuver further from our coasts in a certain "securing our interest pretext" under the diplomatic ambit or Iranian regime. Its not an aggressive move but it forces the aggressor to maneuver cautiously so as to not offend more than one parties at once.
> 
> Iran and Indian interests will be intertwined after this and so will the security of our shipping lanes. The end result is increased stability and nothing else.




india can't* ever* park its ships in iran, pakistan will shove its foot up indias as s.
and second iran will never let an enemy nation to pakistan park its ships there as well.


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## Capt.Popeye

qamar1990 said:


> only in your dreams lol,
> iran pakistan pipeline and the 4 billion dollar refinery iran is going to build in gawadar is all I'm going to mention good bye.
> 
> 
> read the bolded part again, and it proves that direct trade isn't actually direct trade, there is a middleman.



When will you "school-boys" grow up?
There is no middleman. Only a _Darwaan_, who gets paid every time a truck passes through. He lifts the barrier then and waves the truck on its journey forward!

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## Capt.Popeye

qamar1990 said:


> ok well, if israel attacks iran where will you be then?



Are you trying to be funny or stupid?
Where will India be then? Where it is right now. 
I.E. in the Indian Peninsular Region of Asia; controlling the Indian Ocean and its main SLOCs.



Cheetah786 said:


> Can we also export all afghans to India via chabahar



Why not use Gwadar instead? Is'nt it up and running; is'nt the port operational?
Besides it will be easier and cheaper.

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## qamar1990

Capt.Popeye said:


> When will you "school-boys" grow up?
> There is no middleman. Only a _Darwaan_, who gets paid every time a truck passes through. He lifts the barrier then and waves the truck on its journey forward!




seems like a middleman to me.
it all depends on your definition of middleman i guess.



Capt.Popeye said:


> Are you trying to be funny or stupid?
> Where will India be then? Where it is right now.
> I.E. in the Indian Peninsular Region of Asia; controlling the Indian Ocean and its main SLOCs.



where will india stand?
with iran or israel?


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## gslv mk3

qamar1990 said:


> ok well, if israel attacks iran where will you be then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> india can't* ever* park its ships in iran, pakistan will shove its foot up indias as s.
> and second iran will never let an enemy nation to pakistan park its ships there as well.


Ever heard of Indian navy kiddo??
And yes we have enough money ourr PPP per capita is much more than you


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## qamar1990

gslv mk3 said:


> Ever heard of Indian navy kiddo??
> And yes we have enough money ourr PPP per capita is much more than you



yeh, ever heard of pakistani army, navy and air force?
ever heard of china?


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## farhan_9909

Good news for Afghanistan

and for Pakistan aswell

I am all for fencing the border with afghanistan..we should have only a few border posts like on indian border.
We need to secure our border with afghanistan than we can win the war against ttp without the afghan side helping them with sheltering,money and weapons


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## MohitV

qamar1990 said:


> lol, iran is with pakistan i hope you know.
> it will back us before you or the afghanis if anything.
> 
> 
> 
> trillion dollar economy is worthless with a billion people, if you had a 100 million people then it would be impressive.



yeah i know that but still indian economy is considered rising thats why we are a part of BRICS and G15 isn it ??? tatz why FDI came here........after having so many poor and hungry and other problems....we have achieved this much.....soon we will achieve more if v can.... will get rid of poverty....etc etc......same will be done by pakistan as it is a resource rich country.....

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## S.A.

Capt.Popeye said:


> No; I am not agreeing at all. You are seeing the word "directly" in a very limited "school-boyish way".
> In trade terms; "direct" means something else.
> Direct Trade is Trade that is directly arranged for and controlled by the two parties concerned. I.E. in all its implications, negotiations, setting of conditions and tariffs, arranging finances such as L.Cs, deciding what items to be traded etc etc.
> 
> That trade can pass through any mode(s) of transport or through any countries of transit. E.G. India trades with Switzerland (another land-locked country), part of that trade passes through the port of Genoa in Italy. But Italy has nothing to with the trade itself apart from recovering transit costs and taxes/duties. Italy cannot stop that trade.
> That is Direct Trade. Similarly Nepal does Direct Trade with BD; though it passes through India.
> 
> Better informed now about Direct Trade?
> 
> Using the term middleman is ok to some extent. Because it is simply a "non-technical one". But Pakistan is some what of a middleman because it has tried to put barriers in Indo-Afghan trade.



First try to read and interpret what you post....... The question still is, how direct, when you have to rely on some one else port, pay them duties, use their land to pass on.....

And if as per the definition of "Direct Trade", Afghanistan was already doing this since long... Pakistan, Iran, China etc. were not dictating them the terms of trades with other countries. They were previously paying duties and using land of a neighbor country, they will do the same.


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## farhan_9909

we need to focus on gwadar and china involvement.

we should not compare afghanistan in chabahar with china in gwadar.
China alone trade with middle east in 2010 was 210billion dollars.must be close to 300billions dollars now
while afghanistan largest and majority of the trade partner is pakistan and still the trade is less than a billion dollars.

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## Capt.Popeye

S.A. said:


> First try to read and interpret what you post....... The question still is, how direct, when you have to rely on some one else port, pay them duties, use their land to pass on.....
> 
> And if as per the definition of "Direct Trade", Afghanistan was already doing this since long... Pakistan, Iran, China etc. were not dictating them the terms of trades with Europe etc. They were previously paying duties and using land of a neighbor country, they will do the same.



Regarding Indo Afghan trade; Pakistan has imposed many restrictions on what can be traded, how much movement can be allowed and frequently even obstructed/blocked trade. That does not classify as direct trade.
The rest that you are falling back on is a literal school-boy characterisation; I'm afraid.

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## gslv mk3

qamar1990 said:


> yeh, ever heard of pakistani army, navy and air force?
> ever heard of china?



Take this from me,your navy would never want to engage India navaly,and would never try to provoke India
IN still has a qualitatie and quantitative edge over PN

And why areyou dragging China into this?


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## MohitV

gslv mk3 said:


> Take this from me,your navy would never want to engage India navaly,and would never try to provoke India
> IN still has a qualitatie and quantitative edge over PN
> 
> And why areyou dragging China into this?



because they are the side kicks of a great super hero know as CHINA!!! ...


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## CZAR

qamar1990 said:


> but still cant generate enough taxes to meet even 75% of its budget what shame lol.



Stick to theatrics and trolling, my friend. Most fact based arguments will only dent your silly ego, given how pathetically your country is doing on most parameters. 

For instance, you chose to highlight the fiscal deficit. India has its own issues, we are aiming to reign in the fiscal deficit at sub 4.8% (of GDP) levels. And though these numbers are little to boast about, it still looks like the lesser of the two evils when compared to Pak's fiscal deficit of a whooping 8.7% (of GDP) for FY 2012-13. 

Now, quickly go google some poverty related facts to help you save face.

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## S.A.

Capt.Popeye said:


> Regarding Indo Afghan trade; Pakistan has imposed many restrictions on what can be traded, how much movement can be allowed and frequently even obstructed/blocked trade. That does not classify as direct trade.
> The rest that you are falling back on is a literal school-boy characterisation; I'm afraid.



Naa, Read your previous post again..... I will quote it here. As per your above post:

Direct Trade is Trade that is directly arranged for and *controlled* by the two parties concerned. I.E. in all its implications, negotiations, setting of *conditions* and *tariffs*, arranging finances such as L.Cs, deciding what items to be traded etc etc.

How India and Afghanistan *independently* can set these terms.... How they can by pass Iran on these matters... How they will control the trade on Iranian soil... And if they can't, then its not a direct trade...


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## karan.1970

qamar1990 said:


> but still cant generate enough taxes to meet even 75% of its budget what shame lol.



Atleaset not having to go asking for bailouts from IMF

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## Capt.Popeye

qamar1990 said:


> yeh, ever heard of pakistani army, navy and air force?
> ever heard of china?



Yes, we've heard of paksitani navy, army and air force.
In 1971 and 1999 we last heard of them, not much else.

Yes, we've also heard of china.
But never seen them in 1971 or 1999; not on the paksitani side.
Though their help was earnestly sought in those times of 'dire-straits'.
So anything else? apart from calling "Nanny", in times of trouble?

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## karan.1970

S.A. said:


> So you are agreeing that heading is wrong..... Afghanistan can never export or import directly (except from its neighbors) being a land locked country. There will always be a middle man for Afghanistan... This is another matter who is more reliable and who is not.....



Not really. Will depend on the terms of the trade agreement. For example, if India is willing to take delivery in Iran and own the transportation to India, then there is no middle man. This was something which wasnt possible when Pakistan as involved


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## qamar1990

gslv mk3 said:


> Take this from me,your navy would never want to engage India navaly,and would never try to provoke India
> IN still has a qualitatie and quantitative edge over PN
> 
> And why areyou dragging China into this?



they have a hand in gawadar, and you putting your ships near gawadar will not sit well.



CZAR said:


> Stick to theatrics and trolling, my friend. Most fact based arguments will only dent your silly ego, given how pathetically your country is doing on most parameters.
> 
> For instance, you chose to highlight the fiscal deficit. India has its own issues, we are aiming to reign in the fiscal deficit at sub 4.8% (of GDP) levels. And though these numbers are little to boast about, it still looks like the lesser of the two evils when compared to Pak's fiscal deficit of a whooping 8.7% (of GDP) for FY 2012-13.
> 
> *Now, quickly go google some poverty related facts to help you save face.*



im glad you realize about how much more poverty india has, refer to the bolded part lol.

pakistan is in a civil war, in five years pakistan will either do same as india or better.



karan.1970 said:


> Atleaset not having to go asking for bailouts from IMF



how does india meet its budget? when it doesnt have enough money?


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## gslv mk3

qamar1990 said:


> they have a hand in gawadar, and you putting your ships near gawadar will not sit well.



Do you think China would do that?with India so close??
And why should they??


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## karan.1970

qamar1990 said:


> how does india meet its budget? when it doesnt have enough money?



We find money... we are after all baniyas


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## qamar1990

Capt.Popeye said:


> Yes, we've heard of paksitani navy, army and air force.
> In 1971 and 1999 we last heard of them, not much else.
> 
> Yes, we've also heard of china.
> But never seen them in 1971 or 1999; not on the paksitani side.
> Though their help was earnestly sought in those times of 'dire-straits'.
> So anything else? apart from calling "Nanny", in times of trouble?



the last time we fought, india got its as s whooped, we still hold the highest peak in kargil.

and the reason china was brought up is becuase gawadar is being run by them, and they will bring their ships into gawadar, so do you think indian navy parking its vessels 100 miles away will sit well them?


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## Capt.Popeye

S.A. said:


> Naa, Read your previous post again..... I will quote it here. As per your above post:
> 
> Direct Trade is Trade that is directly arranged for and *controlled* by the two parties concerned. I.E. in all its implications, negotiations, setting of *conditions* and *tariffs*, arranging finances such as L.Cs, deciding what items to be traded etc etc.
> 
> How India and Afghanistan *independently* can set these terms.... How they can by pass Iran on these matters... How they will control the trade on Iranian soil... And if they can't, then its not a direct trade...



They have. It is a bi-partite trade arrangement between India and Afghanistan which passes through Iran. Chah Bahar was financed, built and is being operated by India. Iran does not need Chah Bahar yet in any major terms. While Afghanistan does; as an alternative to the Pakistani route. This is a need shared by India too. Later even countries are likely to climb on the Chah Bahar 'band-wagon', keep watching.

Similarly the rail-link to the Afghan border will be built and operated by India. Iran is and will continue to earn the revenues from the link. While buttressing its strategic relationship with Afghanistan. Why do you think Iran facilitated it all? All the aspects of it as I explained earlier.

It is simply a three way arrangement; which is 'win-win' for all the tri-partite partners. But as I said more players will enter. Watch for the Russians and even NATO and the Americans. If Balochistan does not stabilise; then even the Chinese will need a shorter and economical (and most of all a more secured) route to the Sea. Both China and India have made large investments in Afghanistan.


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## qamar1990

karan.1970 said:


> We find money... we are after all baniyas



.......,........



gslv mk3 said:


> Do you think China would do that?with India so close??
> And why should they??



do i think?

have you been reading the news?
they are already doing it.


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## Capt.Popeye

qamar1990 said:


> the last time we fought, india got its as s whooped, we still hold the highest peak in kargil.
> 
> and the reason china was brought up is becuase gawadar is being run by them, and they will bring their ships into gawadar, so do you think indian navy parking its vessels 100 miles away will sit well them?



Hey Greenhorn; you have'nt even read the thread or understood what it is all about or what is happening in Chah Bahar.
You are just clueless about the proceedings, but are persistently spewing around.
You simply don't seem to even know $hit from molasses.
So go some place else, now.

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## gslv mk3

qamar1990 said:


> they have a hand in gawadar, and you putting your ships near gawadar will not sit well.
> im glad you realize about how much more poverty india has, refer to the bolded part lol.
> pakistan is in a civil war, in five years pakistan will either do same as india or better.



Funny to see you guys trolling about poverty,while your per capita income is much less than India,and you are considered as a low human development country

And 5 years,within that we would have undergone a massive Industrialisation ...

how can you catch up??

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## Pulsar

qamar1990 said:


> trillion dollar economy is worthless with a billion people, if you had a 100 million people then it would be impressive.


Good point! 



qamar1990 said:


> key word "going to"
> 
> *its nothing but wet dreams as of now.*


Better than your recurring nightmares!!


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## qamar1990

Capt.Popeye said:


> Hey Greenhorn; you have'nt even read the thread or understood what it is all about or what is happening in Chah Bahar.
> You are just clueless about the proceedings, but are persistently spewing around.
> You simply don't seem to even know $hit from molasses.
> So go some place else, now.



maybe you need to read the thread, its you indians buddies talking about putting their ships in chabahar, i was just responding to them.
i bet you feel like you had your head in your *** the whole time now right?
did you have to look up " greenhorn" something they teach us in 3rd grade lol wouldnt saying "idiot" or "stupid" be better? lol you sure impressed me.



gslv mk3 said:


> Funny to see you guys trolling about poverty,while your per capita income is much less than India,and you are considered as a low human development country
> 
> And 5 years,within that we would have undergone a massive Industrialisation ...
> 
> how can you catch up??



we will catch up becuase energy crisis will be in control and so will security.
our gdp per capita might be less but some reason our poverty is less as well lol.
just like education percentage is more in india but pakistanis still have higher IQ for some reason lol.


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## Ayush

great news..


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## notorious_eagle

Good for Afghanistan, but it is progressing too slow. I believe all of Afghanistan's trade should be transferred over to its other borders bypassing Pakistan, in fact Afghanistan should stop using Pakistan as a transit point for trade once and for all. Afghanistan's best ally India needs to step up, they risk being a non entity after NATO packs up and leaves. India needs to provide Afghanistan with troops, money and weapons to keep a stable Afghanistan because the Taliban War Machinery is still intact.

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## tvsram1992

Icewolf said:


> It looks good on paper...
> But When 70% of your cuntry lives below 2 dollars a day...
> I would expect you not to brag about economy size...
> 
> Kya boltay hai Gujarati mai?
> Pothanee ghar ma tikhano nathi, avigayo mithai baatwane...


we are happy to live with those $2 , atleast we dont need to get scared of external drone attacks and blasts . Look iam not pointing any one here .

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## CZAR

qamar1990 said:


> im glad you realize about how much more poverty india has, refer to the bolded part lol.
> 
> pakistan is in a civil war, *in five years pakistan will either do same as india or better.*



Well to quote you from post number 63 - 

"key word "going to"
its nothing but wet dreams as of now."



qamar1990 said:


> how does india meet its budget? when it doesnt have enough money?



WTF?! Kindly google the following -
"Financing Fiscal Deficit".

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## nomi007

soon indian will enjoy heroine chararas taste of afghanistan


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## Contrarian

notorious_eagle said:


> Good for Afghanistan, but it is progressing too slow. I believe all of Afghanistan's trade should be transferred over to its other borders bypassing Pakistan, in fact Afghanistan should stop using Pakistan as a transit point for trade once and for all. Afghanistan's best ally India needs to step up, they risk being a non entity after NATO packs up and leaves. India needs to provide Afghanistan with troops, money and weapons to keep a stable Afghanistan because the Taliban War Machinery is still intact.


Why?

What India needs to do is make sure that our products reach there and Afghan minerals get to India.
Any way - even if that means bribing Talibs - is acceptable as long as the goal is accomplished.

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## farhan_9909

notorious_eagle said:


> Good for Afghanistan, but it is progressing too slow. I believe all of Afghanistan's trade should be transferred over to its other borders bypassing Pakistan, in fact Afghanistan should stop using Pakistan as a transit point for trade once and for all. Afghanistan's best ally India needs to step up, they risk being a non entity after NATO packs up and leaves. India needs to provide Afghanistan with troops, money and weapons to keep a stable Afghanistan because the Taliban War Machinery is still intact.



Sir ji this is blessing in disguise for Pakistan

may be now we can fence the border with afghanistan.


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## Capt.Popeye

farhan_9909 said:


> Sir ji this is blessing in disguise for Pakistan
> 
> may be now we can fence the border with afghanistan.



Of course you can. But will you be able to?
Because the border itself is unsettled; in dispute. Afghanistan does not recognise the Durand Line (which happens to be the border). So will they allow the construction of the fence?
Will even the Taliban allow the construction of the fence? They will not allow their movements to be hampered.

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## Sher Malang

acid rain said:


> a55 Burn time. @Sher Malang, Any updates on the railroad? has work started yet?



The feasibility study of the project is started.



That Guy said:


> *First off, using known unreliable sources is a bad idea,* yes, I include anyone from the Afghan gov too, because they have no idea what's going on half the time.
> 
> Second, you're making a lot of assumptions. This will happen assuming the Afghan gov and ANA can actually survive a post-NATO withdrawal long enough to have lasting affects on the Afghan economy, and I can tell you that it'll take at least another 10 years for that to happen, without any interruptions and continued foreign funding.
> 
> Third, you're also assuming that the US will tolerate Afghanistan cozying up to Iran, even if the Indian are watching over the whole proces. The US and India still aren't at the level of trust yet to actually rely on each other, and considering that India is not foolish, this level of trust will not happen for the foreseeable future, simply because India has looked at the US's attitude towards it's supposed allies and doesn't trust the US.



I stopped reading the rest after reading the bold part, anyways thanks for your great opinion and effort.


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## Anonymous_CryptoSpy

does who don't know,Talibans attacking Pakistan are RAW agent 

does who don't know,Talibans attacking Pakistan are RAW agent

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## Sher Malang

Finally the strong triangle is practical IRAN-AFGHANISTAN-INDIA now and the feeling of being sandwiched between Afghanistan and Indian by some of our Pakistani fellows is not good this achievement does not mean it will harm Pakistan in anyway!

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## Anonymous_CryptoSpy

* GOOGLE SEARCH PKR AND LOOK THE 1ST RESULT AND 3RD RESULT *


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## p4kistan

Sher Malang said:


> Finally the strong triangle is practical IRAN-AFGHANISTAN-INDIA now and the feeling of being sandwiched between Afghanistan and Indian by some of our Pakistani fellows is not good this achievement does not mean it will harm Pakistan in anyway!



puttar i'd like to see what your triangle is like once we close all trade from Afghanistan.

The Farsi won't dare harm pakistans interests, trade is trade, competition is good but if your so called triangle has ulterior motives know that we will nip it in the bud. Comprende.

PS future post 14 trade from afghanistan will have to be signed off by the Quetta shura.


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## naseebkhanniazi

I think it is good for region Pakistan need to work hard change old mindset work for good relation with all of its border country's and compet the economic race


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## Serpentine

Chabahar port enjoys great transit potential: Afghan ambassador


Afghan Ambassador to Tehran Nasir Ahmad Nour has underlined the importance of Iran&#8217;s southeastern Chabahar Free Trade Zone for the transit of commodities to Afghanistan, stating that the port enjoys great transit, tourism and investment potentials.


Speaking at a joint press conference with Managing Director of Chabahar Free Trade Zone Mostafa Malekzadeh on Tuesday, *Ahmad Nour stated that Chabahar Port, given its direct access to high seas and security, is the best option for the transit of goods to Afghanistan and Central Asian countries. *

&#8220;Afghanistan is willing to increase its trade transactions with Iran through Chabahar Port, and the Afghan government has laid special emphasis on this issue. Chabahar Free Zone has also prepared the grounds for the presence of Afghan investors through allocation of 50 hectares of land,&#8221; the Afghan ambassador stated.

*Malekzadeh, for his part, said Chabahar Port is the most secure, most economical, and the the nearest access route for the transit of goods to Afghanistan. *

He added that the free zone offers such facilities as a 20-year tax exemption, easy investment conditions and permission for foreign banks and insurance agencies to operate. 

*Last week, Afghan Minister of Commerce and Industry Anwar-ul-Haq Ahady complained that his country cannot make complete use of Pakistani ports for the transit of Indian goods to Afghanistan despite trade agreements signed between Kabul and Islamabad. *

Chabahar port -- located 72 kilometers (44 miles) west of Pakistan's Gwadar Port -- holds immense strategic and economic significance for India. 

The port is already connected to the city of Zaranj in Afghanistan's southwestern province of Nimruz and can serve as India's entry point to Afghanistan, Central Asia and beyond.

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## notorious_eagle

Contrarian said:


> Why?
> 
> What India needs to do is make sure that our products reach there and Afghan minerals get to India.
> Any way - even if that means bribing Talibs - is acceptable as long as the goal is accomplished.



You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You are leaving yourself too exposed based on Multiple 'What If' Scenarios. The reason why Chahbar can never reach its full potential and will likely be gutted in the future is because it is based in Iran. If the port is a full success and starts printing dollars for the Iranians, the Americans are never going to tolerate this intransigence. India has been very lucky to piggyback on American efforts, but if it wants to continue to keep its influence over there, it needs to step up its game. India is already on the verge of becoming a 'Non Entity' in Afghanistan. The US has already initiated stabilizing factors in Afghanistan which includes putting an end to Indian support for Hostile Anti Pakistan Elements. Its only a fools dream if India thinks she can get what it wants without putting in any effort whether its treasure or blood. 



farhan_9909 said:


> Sir ji this is blessing in disguise for Pakistan
> 
> may be now we can fence the border with afghanistan.



Janab

I completely agree with you, but the problem is this article is very misleading. This trade number is only a minuscule compared to the amount of trade that goes through Pakistan. First of all the success of the Chahbar port is divergent to US interests, and we have to admit the US is the top dog. Second, the Iranians are not nearly as accommodating as us when it comes to Afghanistan. We are the biggest morons because we charge the Afghans no duties or levies, they pay nothing for the wear and tear of our roads. Indirectly, we are subsidizing their trade by not charging them a dime for the use of our ports and our roads. Billions of rupees have to be allocated every year by the GOP to keep our roads in good condition.

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## Capt.Popeye

Serpentine said:


> Chabahar port enjoys great transit potential: Afghan ambassador
> 
> 
> Afghan Ambassador to Tehran Nasir Ahmad Nour has underlined the importance of Iran&#8217;s southeastern Chabahar Free Trade Zone for the transit of commodities to Afghanistan, stating that the port enjoys great transit, tourism and investment potentials.
> 
> 
> Speaking at a joint press conference with Managing Director of Chabahar Free Trade Zone Mostafa Malekzadeh on Tuesday, *Ahmad Nour stated that Chabahar Port, given its direct access to high seas and security, is the best option for the transit of goods to Afghanistan and Central Asian countries. *
> 
> &#8220;Afghanistan is willing to increase its trade transactions with Iran through Chabahar Port, and the Afghan government has laid special emphasis on this issue. Chabahar Free Zone has also prepared the grounds for the presence of Afghan investors through allocation of 50 hectares of land,&#8221; the Afghan ambassador stated.
> 
> *Malekzadeh, for his part, said Chabahar Port is the most secure, most economical, and the the nearest access route for the transit of goods to Afghanistan. *
> 
> He added that the free zone offers such facilities as a 20-year tax exemption, easy investment conditions and permission for foreign banks and insurance agencies to operate.
> 
> *Last week, Afghan Minister of Commerce and Industry Anwar-ul-Haq Ahady complained that his country cannot make complete use of Pakistani ports for the transit of Indian goods to Afghanistan despite trade agreements signed between Kabul and Islamabad. *
> 
> Chabahar port -- located 72 kilometers (44 miles) west of Pakistan's Gwadar Port -- holds immense strategic and economic significance for India.
> 
> The port is already connected to the city of Zaranj in Afghanistan's southwestern province of Nimruz and can serve as India's entry point to Afghanistan, Central Asia and beyond.



All of that is very true. Both Iran and Chah Bahar can a play a very important role in helping to stabilise and then reconstruct Afghanistan. Then later to help Afghanistan earn revenue to get its economy moving along independantly. Iran has a major role to play in the region; and as I said earlier countries that ignore Iran will do so at their own cost.

Right now it is trade between India and Afghanistan that is taking off. Once the rail link from Chah Bahar to Afghanistan's border is done other countries will line upto use the link, even EU and USA. And if Balochistan does not get stable and secured; then China will need a transport link to amortize its investments in Afghanistan. Chah Bahar!!!
Things can only get better for Chah Bahar from here on.

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## Serpentine

Capt.Popeye said:


> All of that is very true. Both Iran and Chah Bahar can a play a very important role in helping to stabilise and then reconstruct Afghanistan. Then later to help Afghanistan earn revenue to get its economy moving along independantly. Iran has a major role to play in the region; and as I said earlier countries that ignore Iran will do so at their own cost.
> 
> Right now it is trade between India and Afghanistan that is taking off. Once the rail link from Chah Bahar to Afghanistan's border is done other countries will line upto use the link, even EU and USA. And if Balochistan does not get stable and secured; then China will need a transport link to amortize its investments in Afghanistan. Chah Bahar!!!
> Things can only get better for Chah Bahar from here on.



The construction of Chabahar-Milk (Town in Afghan border) is in progress.
According to Iran's railway map, the blue line (Chabahar-Zahedan) construction started 2 years ago and it should complete in 6 months (if no delays or setbacks happen).
The pink line is in study phase and it will be built much faster because if I remember well, India is going to participate in its construction. They can build all of the line in 1 year if they are serious, but with normal process, it would be 2 years, which is not bad. But after it's complete, this port can be used to transport Indian goods and also exports from Far East countries to Central Asia, Russia and even Europe (since the railway is connected to national railway system), in addition to Afghanistan. The railway will go further to Turkmenistan border.

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## BATMAN

Some old memories of Pakistan, ruled by traitors.


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## Contrarian

notorious_eagle said:


> You can't have your cake and eat it too.
> 
> You are leaving yourself too exposed based on Multiple 'What If' Scenarios. The reason why Chahbar can never reach its full potential and will likely be gutted in the future is because it is based in Iran. If the port is a full success and starts printing dollars for the Iranians, the Americans are never going to tolerate this intransigence. India has been very lucky to piggyback on American efforts, but if it wants to continue to keep its influence over there, it needs to step up its game. India is already on the verge of becoming a 'Non Entity' in Afghanistan. The US has already initiated stabilizing factors in Afghanistan which includes putting an end to Indian support for Hostile Anti Pakistan Elements. Its only a fools dream if India thinks she can get what it wants without putting in any effort whether its treasure or blood.



Nope.
If Afghanistan goes up in flames - there is exactly *one* nation that will suffer - that is Pakistan.

You bank on US not only making sure that India does not trade using the Iranian port, you also bank on US curtailing Indian activities in Afghanistan.

I believe you are mistaken on the former and the latter.

US does not care what happens to and in Afghanistan after 2014. US still wants Pakistan to be in the doghouse. India achieves that for US using Afghanistan.

As for the former - you greatly over estimate US's influence on India. 
The only reason that India's lowered purchases of oil from Iran is because there is no god forsaken way to pay Iran. Iran already now buys goods from India as payment for the oil that India purchases - and there is a limit to what Iran can buy from India in kind.

The only way for US to stall India's plan in Iran is for US to offer something that India cannot refuse - like US offered nuclear deal, and the price was to let IPI go along with purchases from US(civil/military/nuclear).


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## Capt.Popeye

Serpentine said:


> The construction of Chabahar-Milk (Town in Afghan border) is in progress.
> According to Iran's railway map, the blue line (Chabahar-Zahedan) construction started 2 years ago and it should complete in 6 months (if no delays or setbacks happen).
> The pink line in in study phase and it will be built much faster because if I remember well, India is going to participate in its construction. They can build all of the line in 1 year if they are serious, but with normal process, it would be 2 years, which is not bad. But after it's complete, this port can be used to transport Indian goods and also exports from Far East countries to Central Asia, Russia and even Europe (since the railway is connected to national railway system), in addition to Afghanistan. The railway will go further to Turkmenistan border.



That is great news!! Thanks especially for the map. It helps to understand the perspective.
I am aware of the fact that India is involved in the construction of the railway line and will slso be involved in its operation.
This is a great opportunity for Iran to reclaim its position on the world stage. Iran's activities in helping to stabilise and reconstruct Afghanistan can only help to boost Iran's stature. That has already been the subject of discussions between Russia, Iran and India; both multi-laterally and bilaterally. Even China is in favor of that, because China also seeks a stable Afghanistan; given its large investments there. The EU is also pushing favorably. All of this has been talked over at various times with USA. As the relations between USA and Iran normalise (which is inevitable however slowly); the regional scenario will change. Those trends seem to be showing. Let us see now.

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## Capt.Popeye

Contrarian said:


> Nope.
> If Afghanistan goes up in flames - there is exactly *one* nation that will suffer - that is Pakistan.
> 
> You bank on US not only making sure that India does not trade using the Iranian port, you also bank on US curtailing Indian activities in Afghanistan.
> 
> I believe you are mistaken on the former and the latter.
> 
> US does not care what happens to and in Afghanistan after 2014. US still wants Pakistan to be in the doghouse. India achieves that for US using Afghanistan.
> 
> As for the former - you greatly over estimate US's influence on India.
> The only reason that India's lowered purchases of oil from Iran is because there is no god forsaken way to pay Iran. Iran already now buys goods from India as payment for the oil that India purchases - and there is a limit to what Iran can buy from India in kind.
> 
> The only way for US to stall India's plan in Iran is for US to offer something that India cannot refuse - like US offered nuclear deal, and the price was to let IPI go along with purchases from US(civil/military/nuclear).



IMO, some additions/corrections may be in order there. 
Chah bahar has been operationalised with the _tacit approval _of the US just as Indo-Afghan trade through Chah Bahar has its _tacit approval_. 
There is a reason for that. USA is trying to cover all bases post 2014. Some of them can be done indirectly; without the USA geeting involved or taking any flak. Just as Iran can do it without getting compromised.

About India's oil imports from Iran. They were in fact reduced due to payment issues. However USA set up the alternate sources viz. KSA. But the idea is not and will not be to completely eliminate Iranian supplies. So the barter arrangements were set up. Do you think that USA does not know or care about that alternate arrangement?

There are some reconstruction/rejig of "regional arrangements" going on now. Wait and see how it plays out. The wait is not likely to be long. Many players have worked behind the scenes towards this end.

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## farhan_9909

How the hell can 1 compare Gwadar with chabahar

Afghanistan GDP is 20billions dollars.and there overall trade is less than few billions dollars.

Pakistan counts for 70% of there export and 40% of imports

Gwadar on the other hand if alone china use the port.they have trade with middle east worth 210billions dollars as of 2010-11 and msut be close to 300billions dollars now

Chabahar annual trade line would be a couple of billions dollars while gwadar in excess of half a trillion dollars

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## Serpentine

farhan_9909 said:


> How the hell can 1 compare Gwadar with chabahar
> 
> Afghanistan GDP is 20billions dollars.and there overall trade is less than few billions dollars.
> 
> Pakistan counts for 70% of there export and 40% of imports
> 
> Gwadar on the other hand if alone china use the port.they have trade with middle east worth 210billions dollars as of 2010-11 and msut be close to 300billions dollars now
> 
> Chabahar annual trade line would be a couple of billions dollars *while gwadar in excess of half a trillion dollars*



Half a trillion? You mean the same size of Pakistan's GDP? Only from one port? I don't think this is true, unless you provide some proof.


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## Capt.Popeye

p4kistan said:


> puttar i'd like to see what your triangle is like once we close all trade from Afghanistan.
> 
> The Farsi won't dare harm pakistans interests, trade is trade, competition is good but if your so called triangle has ulterior motives know that we will nip it in the bud. Comprende.
> 
> PS future post 14 trade from afghanistan will have to be signed off by the Quetta shura.



HeHeHe; I like your "style" though you are singularly devoid of any "substance"!!! 

You can try brow-beating @Sher Malang by that Bluster. But how about our Iranian colleagues whom you dismissively term as "The Farsi". Let us hear them out. They are not waiting to dance to your tune, or are they? @Serpentine; any comments?

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## Roybot

Serpentine said:


> Half a trillion? *You mean the same size of Pakistan's GDP*? Only from one port? I don't think this is true, unless you provide some proof.



Pakistan's GDP is $210 Billion, so 2 times Pakistan's GDP.

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## Contrarian

farhan_9909 said:


> How the hell can 1 compare Gwadar with chabahar
> 
> Afghanistan GDP is 20billions dollars.and there overall trade is less than few billions dollars.
> 
> Pakistan counts for 70% of there export and 40% of imports
> 
> Gwadar on the other hand if alone china use the port.they have trade with middle east worth 210billions dollars as of 2010-11 and msut be close to 300billions dollars now
> 
> Chabahar annual trade line would be a couple of billions dollars while gwadar in excess of half a trillion dollars



You dont get it do you?

Its not a competition between Gwadar and Chabahar as long as Iran is under international sanctions.

But regardless of those sanctions, it yields a breakthrough for Afghanistan as it gets a port apart from Pakistan to trade from, and it yields a breakthrough for India - which gets a port to trade with Afghanistan and CAR.

Even without being an international hit, Chabahar automatically undercuts Pakistani influence or dependence of other nations on Pakistan.

Yet be assured, that owing to better infrastructure in Iran, better trunk routes and coming connection of Chabahar to the Iranian national railway system, it would perform better than Gwadar *when* the sanctions are removed.


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## Capt.Popeye

Roybot said:


> Pakistan's GDP is $210 Billion, so 2 times Pakistan's GDP.



_Yaar; Fantasies kay bhi hadd hone chahiye!_
trans:even fantasies should have some limits. 


(or they may turn into nightmares)


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## farhan_9909

Serpentine said:


> Half a trillion? You mean the same size of Pakistan's GDP? Only from one port? I don't think this is true, unless you provide some proof.



considering 2020 when the rail link would be established and the road completion would had been done

Right now CHina trade with Middle east is upto 210billions dollars as of 2010-11.consider yourself the trade of china with middle east in 2020.

Also Tajikistan not only has constructed road and completed on there side of border.
the road from hasanabdal upto abbottabad and beyond again is funded by them.
So tajikistan is yet another confirmed country for gwadar












i can provide more about the construction of road by tajikistan

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## That Guy

Sher Malang said:


> The feasibility study of the project is started.
> 
> 
> 
> I stopped reading the rest after reading the bold part, anyways thanks for your great opinion and effort.



Just proves that you're unwilling to see the truth.

If you want to stay in the dark, who am I to judge?

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## farhan_9909

Roybot said:


> Pakistan's GDP is $210 Billion, so 2 times Pakistan's GDP.



Pakistan GDP as of 2013 is 252.5Billions dollars.



Contrarian said:


> You dont get it do you?
> 
> Its not a competition between Gwadar and Chabahar as long as Iran is under international sanctions.
> 
> But regardless of those sanctions, it yields a breakthrough for Afghanistan as it gets a port apart from Pakistan to trade from, and it yields a breakthrough for India - which gets a port to trade with Afghanistan and CAR.
> 
> Even without being an international hit, Chabahar automatically undercuts Pakistani influence or dependence of other nations on Pakistan.
> 
> Yet be assured, that owing to better infrastructure in Iran, better trunk routes and coming connection of Chabahar to the Iranian national railway system, it would perform better than Gwadar *when* the sanctions are removed.



How?

Chabahar would be used for trade with central asian countries and Afghanistan.Right

*Afghanistan trade with india considering there GDP is 20billions dollars even in 2025 would remain below 10billions dollars.
*Indian trade with central asian countries is less than a billion dollar

than how it would perform better than Gwadar?tell me?
Tajikistan and china already are confirmed for Gwadar.and few more might also opt for pakistani route considering that uzbekistan being majority of sunni doesnt has good reputation in shia iran.and so does the rest of central asia.

Tajikistan has good relation with Iran but again they have opted for gwadar.and invested in road construction on both sides of the borders.

tell me how?will chabahar be better than gwadar in term of revenue.

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## American Pakistani

How can it be directly? Either Afghanistan & india are weak in Geography education or Pakistan & USA. Last i saw was Afghanistan not sharing any border with india or any sea.

BTW it is great news for Pakistan, Pakistan should now seal the Pak-Afghan border completely. Also Pakistan should start promoting Gawadar port & make it primary port for it's exports/imports in Middle East.


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## Contrarian

farhan_9909 said:


> Pakistan GDP as of 2013 is 252.5Billions dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> How?
> 
> Chabahar would be used for trade with central asian countries and Afghanistan.Right
> 
> *Afghanistan trade with india considering there GDP is 20billions dollars even in 2025 would remain below 10billions dollars.
> *Indian trade with central asian countries is less than a billion dollar
> 
> than how it would perform better than Gwadar?tell me?
> Tajikistan and china already are confirmed for Gwadar.and few more might also opt for pakistani route considering that uzbekistan being majority of sunni doesnt has good reputation in shia iran.and so does the rest of central asia.
> 
> Tajikistan has good relation with Iran but again they have opted for gwadar.and invested in road construction on both sides of the borders.
> 
> tell me how?will chabahar be better than gwadar in term of revenue.



You are foolish enough to not get my point.


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## Serpentine

Roybot said:


> Pakistan's GDP is $210 Billion, so 2 times Pakistan's GDP.



Yep, I just began to suspect my own number, my mistake. 



Capt.Popeye said:


> HeHeHe; I like your "style" though you are singularly devoid of any "substance"!!!
> 
> You can try brow-beating @Sher Malang by that Bluster. But how about our Iranian colleagues whom you dismissively term as "The Farsi". Let us hear them out. They are not waiting to dance to your tune, or are they?
> @Serpentine; any comments?



I don't see why some Pakistani members don't like this whole project. It's not about challenging Gwadar, because they are for different purposes. Gwadar is more suitable for China to export its goods to Arab countries and maybe Africa, while Chabahar is better for India and Far East nations. Chabahar can be a re-export hub for goods to: Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Central Asia, Caspian Sea countries (Azerbaijan, Russia and Kazakhstan besides Turkmenistan), Armenia, Turkey (and naturally Europe), Iraq and Levant (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan). It has the advantage of cheap oil and energy which can reduce transportation costs dramatically and also stability and security through all over Iran (Even Baloochestan province which is almost completely safe now after the capture and execution of Jundallah terrorist group leader).
If only some of sanctions are eased or removed, the real potential of Chabahar will be known much better. Without any exaggeration, Chabahar can be the Shanghai of Middle East and also Dubai (consideing that Dubai gained much of its revenues and from re-export of goods to Iran during its rise in 90s)

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## farhan_9909

Contrarian said:


> You are foolish enough to not get my point.



i got your point that it is indeed a achievement for afghanistan as that got a yet another part to have access to warm water apart from Pakistan.decreasing the influence of pakistan over afghanistan.

I got this all.
and what i said is that chabahar indeed might be better than gwadar for Afghanistan.(even though the afghanistan will now eff the iran with drugs/ganja/opium) but in the end Gwadar will have a better revenue compared to chabahar.


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## Contrarian

farhan_9909 said:


> i got your point that it is indeed a achievement for afghanistan as that got a yet another part to have access to warm water apart from Pakistan.decreasing the influence of pakistan over afghanistan.


Not just that. It decreases Pakistan's leverage over India as well regarding the trade routes that India has been pushing for.



> I got this all.
> and what i said is that chabahar indeed might be better than gwadar for Afghanistan.(even though the afghanistan will now eff the iran with drugs/ganja/opium) but in the end Gwadar will have a better revenue compared to chabahar.



That is not even a moot question as Iran is under sanctions, and till that time, Gwadar would be the only port for international customers - so to speak - the only dog in the race.


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## American Pakistani

Roybot said:


> Pakistan's GDP is $*210 *Billion, so 2 times Pakistan's GDP.



US$* 233.476* billion (*2011 *estimate)
Pakistan GDP Data & Country Report | Global Finance

It was 233.476 in 2011 & currently(2013) it is somewhere between US$ 252 - 264 billions.

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## notorious_eagle

Contrarian said:


> Nope.
> If Afghanistan goes up in flames - there is exactly *one* nation that will suffer - that is Pakistan.



I know. This is why Pakistan is working hard to ensure that something like this does not happen. 



Contrarian said:


> You bank on US not only making sure that India does not trade using the Iranian port, you also bank on US curtailing Indian activities in Afghanistan.



Its not banking on the US but mere common sense. The US will not tolerate any activity that enriches Iran, it has successfully forced the Indians to back out of the IPI deal and forced the Indians to reduce their appetite for Iranian oil. 



Contrarian said:


> I believe you are mistaken on the former and the latter.



Not mistaken, already happening. Just open your eyes my friend



Contrarian said:


> US does not care what happens to and in Afghanistan after 2014. US still wants Pakistan to be in the doghouse. India achieves that for US using Afghanistan.



Not really. American strategic planners have realized that it is in the interests of the US to ensure that both Afghanistan and Pakistan are stable. This is why the Americans have shoved down billions of dollars in both Afghanistan and Pakistan to try and stabilize the situation. They have realized that their strategy in Afghanistan was flawed by not including the Pushtuns, this is why the Americans are now openly embracing the Taliban and opening up peace talks with them. If they wanted Afghanistan to remain volatile, they would have never made overtures to the Taliban. It is in the political interests of the US that both Afghanistan and Pakistan remain stable and prosper, State Department was quite explicit in that. 



Contrarian said:


> As for the former - you greatly over estimate US's influence on India.
> The only reason that India's lowered purchases of oil from Iran is because there is no god forsaken way to pay Iran. Iran already now buys goods from India as payment for the oil that India purchases - and there is a limit to what Iran can buy from India in kind.



So you admit, the US was successful in its goal. It has everything to do with influence, whether you like it or not but the US remains to be the sole superpower when it comes to diplomatic, political, economic and military clout. Through their chokehold on the Global Financial System, they were successful in reducing China's and India's oil appetite for Iranian oil. 



Contrarian said:


> The only way for US to stall India's plan in Iran is for US to offer something that India cannot refuse - like US offered nuclear deal, and the price was to let IPI go along with purchases from US(civil/military/nuclear).



Indeed, they offered something to the Indians they simply could not refuse. In case of Chahbar, they don't have to offer anything because the Americans are the top dogs in Afghanistan and India is at best a 'Non Entity'. India lacks the political, diplomatic and military clout required to be a major player in Afghanistan. Its a sad reality but unfortunately it is the reality.

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## Roybot

farhan_9909 said:


> Pakistan GDP as of 2013 is 252.5Billions dollars.





American Pakistani said:


> US$* 233.476* billion (*2011 *estimate)
> Pakistan GDP Data & Country Report | Global Finance
> 
> It was 233.476 in 2011 & currently(2013) it is somewhere between US$ 252 - 264 billions.



My bad guys, although still half the figure of half a trillion dollar per year.


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## American Pakistani

Serpentine said:


> I don't see why some Pakistani members don't like this whole project.



How would Iran feel if Pakistanis invite Israel on Pak-Iran border. Already india is supporting TTP & BLA terrorists via Afghanistan(23 indian consulates on Pak-Afghan border).
http://tribune.com.pk/story/512867/...ms-for-pakistan-from-afghanistan-chuck-hagel/

Pakistan is only concerned that india will use Irani territory against Pakistan just like Afghan territory.

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## Shabz Nist

American Pakistani said:


> How would Iran feel if Pakistanis invite Israel on Pak-Iran border. Already india is supporting TTP & BLA terrorists via Afghanistan(23 indian consulates on Pak-Afghan border), Pakistan is only concerned that india will use Irani territory against Pakistan just like Afghan territory.



Yes this is all good. If only your Pakistani passport didn't say "THIS DOCUMENT IS VALID IN ALL COUNTRIES EXCEPT ISRAEL".


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## American Pakistani

Shabz Nist said:


> Yes this is all good. If only your Pakistani passport didn't say "THIS DOCUMENT IS VALID IN ALL COUNTRIES EXCEPT ISRAEL".



Your comment/post/reply makes no sense wrt my post.


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## Roybot

Serpentine said:


> I don't see why some Pakistani members don't like this whole project.



Thats because Pakistan will loose leverage it has over Afghanistan. With Chahbahar Port Afghanistan can access the sea without going through Pakistan.

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## Serpentine

American Pakistani said:


> How would Iran feel if Pakistanis invite Israel on Pak-Iran border. Already india is supporting TTP & BLA terrorists via Afghanistan(23 indian consulates on Pak-Afghan border).
> &#8216;India financed problems for Pakistan&#8217; from Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> Pakistan is only concerned that india will use Irani territory against Pakistan just like Afghan territory.



Comparing India and Israel on this issue is not right at all:
1.India has a sole economical interest in Chabahar, while I don't think Israeli presence in Pak-Iran border would have any economical aspect.
2.Neither Iran nor Pakistan have relations with Israel.
3.Despite hostilities, Pakistan and India have economical relations, so you can't deny Iran expanding relations with one of its greatest trade partners.So it's not fair at all.It's like Iran complaining about Pak-Saudi or Pak-American relations which is none of our business.
4.What are you expecting India to do in Chabahar?Training terrorists and sending them to Pakistan? Iran is not Somalia my dear, it doesn't even make sense for India to do this.They have a much larger border with Pakistan themselves, if they ever plan to train terrorists (which I find unlikely), they will do it from there, not by risking their relations with Iran.

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## Mirza Jatt

This is a great news...actually have been waiting for this development ever since I joined PDF when I first heard about chabahar port...so this is really a special news.


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## American Pakistani

Serpentine said:


> Comparing India and Israel on this issue is not right at all:
> 1.India has a sole economical interest in Chabahar, while I don't think Israeli presence in Pak-Iran border would have any economical aspect.
> 2.Neither Iran nor Pakistan have relations with Israel.
> 3.Despite hostilities, Pakistan and India have economical relations, so you can't deny Iran expanding relations with one of its greatest trade partners.So it's not fair at all.It's like Iran complaining about Pak-Saudi or Pak-American relations which is none of our business.
> 4.What are you expecting India to do in Chabahar?Training terrorists and sending them to Pakistan? Iran is not Somalia my dear, it doesn't even make sense for India to do this.They have a much larger border with Pakistan themselves, if they ever plan to train terrorists (which I find unlikely), they will do it from there, not by risking their relations with Iran.



Comparing india with Israel may be not right for you because you have your interest rite now, otherwise india is far ahead of Israel in committing atrocities against Muslims. Israel has occupied Palestine whereas india has occupied Kashmir where indian forces had killed, raped hundreds of thousand people.

As for india having huge border with Pakistan, yes it has huge border with Pakistan & it can send terrorists from there but it is very risky, firstly if india does so it will come under international radar openly & secondly Pak-ind border is world's most heavily guarded border. Sending terrorists via Afghanistan is easy for india as Afghanistan is lawless country. I'm not saying Iran is Somalia or Afghanistan but the thing is Pak-Iran border is very much open & there is possibility india will spy from there or even support terrorists more frequently in Pakistan's Makran region.

In short if you wanna see world from your lens you will get your point of view only, just like Israel presence @ Pak-Iran border will make Iranis uneasy same is the case with Pakistan & i'am afraid in future it will not be healthy for the relations between Pakistan & Iran.

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## karan.1970

American Pakistani said:


> Comparing india with Israel may be not right for you because you have your interest rite now, otherwise india is far ahead of Israel in committing atrocities against Muslims. Israel has occupied Palestine whereas india has occupied Kashmir where indian forces had killed, raped hundreds of thousand people.
> 
> As for india having huge border with Pakistan, yes it has huge border with Pakistan & it can send terrorists from there but it is very risky, firstly if india does so it will come under international radar openly & secondly Pak-ind border is world's most heavily guarded border. Sending terrorists via Afghanistan is easy for india as Afghanistan is lawless country. I'm not saying Iran is Somalia or Afghanistan but the thing is Pak-Iran border is very much open & there is possibility india will spy from there or even support terrorists more frequently in Pakistan's Makran region.
> 
> In short if you wanna see world from your lens you will get your point of view only, just like Israel presence @ Pak-Iran border will make Iranis uneasy same is the case with Pakistan & i'am afraid in future it will not be healthy for the relations between Pakistan & Iran.



You conveniently ignored the angle on Pakistan bringing USA next to Iranian border, allowing them to have military bases on your soil and giving them transit thru you land.. What effect has that had on Pak-Iran relations. ? Get over the entitlement mentality that other counties owe you something above their own national interests

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## American Pakistani

karan.1970 said:


> You conveniently ignored the angle on Pakistan bringing USA next to Iranian border, allowing them to have military bases on your soil and giving them transit thru you land.. What effect has that had on Pak-Iran relations. ? Get over the entitlement mentality that other counties owe you something above their own national interests



US & Iran were not arch enemies in 2001...were they? Also Pakistan had clearly stated repeatedly that it will never allow US bravado against Iran from it's soil, another fact that US supply convoys passes atleast 500 KM away from Pak-Iran border. Pakistan's interest lies with US but this didn't stop Pakistan from having Pak-Iran gas pipeline & buying gas from Iran. Don't forget US-Iran relations are not as bad as Pak-ind relations, Pak-ind relations are more terrible than Iran-Israel relations.

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## Cheetah786

karan.1970 said:


> Atleaset not having to go asking for bailouts from IMF



IMF is a fund that loans out the money with Interest and conditions and is not a bailout.Unless India is running debt free i wouldn't be bragging so much.



karan.1970 said:


> You conveniently ignored the angle on Pakistan bringing USA next to Iranian border, allowing them to have military bases on your soil and giving them transit thru you land.. What effect has that had on Pak-Iran relations. ? Get over the entitlement mentality that other counties owe you something above their own national interests



What effect India keep voting against Iran over and over again will have.

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## joekrish

American Pakistani said:


> US & Iran were not arch enemies in 2001...were they? Also Pakistan had clearly stated repeatedly that it will never allow US bravado against Iran from it's soil, another fact that US supply convoys passes atleast 500 KM away from Pak-Iran border. Pakistan's interest lies with US but this didn't stop Pakistan from having Pak-Iran gas pipeline & buying gas from Iran. Don't forget US-Iran relations are not as bad as Pak-ind relations, Pak-ind relations are more terrible than Iran-Israel relations.



What gives you the idea that Iran will allow India to operate against Pakistan? It's and will be only business. As far as your statements on the pipe line go, you need it more than they do.


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## notorious_eagle

Roybot said:


> Thats because Pakistan will loose leverage it has over Afghanistan. With Chahbahar Port Afghanistan can access the sea without going through Pakistan.



What are you talking about? We Pakistanis fully support this project, it will do a lot of good for Pakistan. Pakistan is getting screwed by Afghanistan left, right and centre. They are exempt from all duties and levies, Pakistani taxpayers are indirectly funding their trade by paying for all the wear and tear of the roads used by their trucks. Also, you will see with time that Iranians are not nearly as accommodating as Pakistanis are when it comes to dealing with Afghanistan.



American Pakistani said:


> US & Iran were not arch enemies in 2001...were they? Also Pakistan had clearly stated repeatedly that it will never allow US bravado against Iran from it's soil, another fact that US supply convoys passes atleast 500 KM away from Pak-Iran border. Pakistan's interest lies with US but this didn't stop Pakistan from having Pak-Iran gas pipeline & buying gas from Iran. Don't forget US-Iran relations are not as bad as Pak-ind relations, Pak-ind relations are more terrible than Iran-Israel relations.



Calm down man

This project is good news for Pakistan, it unloads pressure of Pakistan and shifts it to Iran. First of all, this project is still in its baby phase. There are more chances of this project failing due to American pressure rather than succeeding. Second, it is still a drop in the ocean. Majority of Afghanistan's trade is and will continue to be transited through Pakistan due to obvious reasons. Overall, this project will do a lot of good for Pakistan.

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## American Pakistani

joekrish said:


> What gives you the idea that Iran will allow India to operate against Pakistan? It's and will be only business.



After what india is doing via Pak-Afghan border still you are being so naive.



joekrish said:


> As far as your statements on the pipe line go, you need it more than they do.



Pipeline was/is in the interest of both countries, Iran had to do business whereas Pakistan need to answer it's energy crises. Pakistan was offered Turkmenistan gas by US if it dumps IP project which Pakistan reject.

Whole story short - as i said earlier you will find all well & okay if you continue to see from your lens.


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## karan.1970

Cheetah786 said:


> IMF is a fund that loans out the money with Interest and conditions and is not a bailout.Unless India is running debt free i wouldn't be bragging so much.



Pakistan Makes Deal With IMF for Bailout - WSJ.com

Pakistan seeks IMF bailout - DAWN.COM

meh... !!! 





Cheetah786 said:


> What effect India keep voting against Iran over and over again will have.



You tell me.. Last I checked, we were doing a mojor port development in partnership with Iran and there was a talk of defence cooperation 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...lcomes-defense-cooperation-iran-minister.html


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## Armstrong

notorious_eagle said:


> What are you talking about? We Pakistanis fully support this project, it will do a lot of good for Pakistan. Pakistan is getting screwed by Afghanistan left, right and centre. They are exempt from all duties and levies, Pakistani taxpayers are indirectly funding their trade by paying for all the wear and tear of the roads used by their trucks. Also, you will see with time that Iranians are not nearly as accommodating as Pakistanis are when it comes to dealing with Afghanistan.
> 
> Calm down man
> 
> This project is good news for Pakistan, it unloads pressure of Pakistan and shifts it to Iran. First of all, this project is still in its baby phase. There are more chances of this project failing due to American pressure rather than succeeding. Second, it is still a drop in the ocean. Majority of Afghanistan's trade is and will continue to be transited through Pakistan due to obvious reasons. Overall, this project will do a lot of good for Pakistan.



I so want to wish away a neighbor like Afghanistan ! 

Can't we have some sort of an Iron-Curtain type thing where the millions of them that are in Pakistan - stay in Afghanistan & hate us to their heart's content from across the Durand Line ? 

Pataa nahin kahaan seii ye parasites lagggg gaiiin haiii hameiiin aur utttar nei ka naaam hii nahin leiteiiin ! 

Oi @chauvunist when I was in Peshawar I asked my Afghan Taxi Driver kei Sahib aap Afghanistan - Apneii mulk - waapiiis kiyun nahin jateiii & he replied - Hamaraa mulk Attock tukkk haiii !  

Beraa gharaaak ! 

Maraiii gaiii !

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## karan.1970

American Pakistani said:


> US & Iran were not arch enemies in 2001...were they? Also Pakistan had clearly stated repeatedly that it will never allow US bravado against Iran from it's soil,


Statements have no value. Pakistan also stated that it will not allow Al Queda leadership on its soil.. And we all know what happened in Abbotabad 



American Pakistani said:


> another fact that US supply convoys passes atleast 500 KM away from Pak-Iran border. Pakistan's interest lies with US but this didn't stop Pakistan from having Pak-Iran gas pipeline & buying gas from Iran. Don't forget US-Iran relations are not as bad as Pak-ind relations, Pak-ind relations are more terrible than Iran-Israel relations.



Whats the latest on that Pipeline anyway??

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## American Pakistani

notorious_eagle said:


> Calm down man
> 
> This project is good news for Pakistan, it unloads pressure of Pakistan and shifts it to Iran. First of all, this project is still in its baby phase. There are more chances of this project failing due to American pressure rather than succeeding. Second, it is still a drop in the ocean. Majority of Afghanistan's trade is and will continue to be transited through Pakistan due to obvious reasons. Overall, this project will do a lot of good for Pakistan.



I know this project is future failure & waste of investment but obviously it will be known in history, next generations of Pakistanis will ask that if Iran was brother country(as said in Pakistan) then why did it support the countries that were arch enemies & hostile towards Pakistan.

Also i'm very much calm but my reply was to Irani member who asked that why Pakistanis are acting this way, so i made it clear that Pakistan was never & will never be against prosperity of any country but Iran choose wrong country to develop it's Chahbahar, it's like Pakistan choosing Israel to develop Gawadar or built IP gas-line.

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## farhan_9909

well guys

let iran test the wave of drugs and terrorism from afghanistan.

for a couple of hundred millions not even a single billion.they have certainly welcome the afghanistani anti shia taliban terrorism into iran.by one or another mean they will turn your country what they did to pakistan when we allowed there refugees and supply line

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## chauvunist

Armstrong said:


> I so want to wish away a neighbor like Afghanistan !
> 
> Can't we have some sort of an Iron-Curtain type thing where the millions of them that are in Pakistan - stay in Afghanistan & hate us to their heart's content from across the Durand Line ?
> 
> Pataa nahin kahaan seii ye parasites lagggg gaiiin haiii hameiiin aur utttar nei ka naaam hii nahin leiteiiin !
> 
> Oi @chauvunist when I was in Peshawar I asked my Afghan Taxi Driver kei Sahib aap Afghanistan - Apneii mulk - waapiiis kiyun nahin jateiii & he replied - Hamaraa mulk Attock tukkk haiii !
> 
> Beraa gharaaak !
> 
> Maraiii gaiii !




Haha,Whenever i come across such argument i just tell them that Afghanistan is going to be our 5th province in the near future and you can see their faces turning red...

Once me and my cousin come across an old afghani of northern decent(uneducated) who passed an aggressive argument against Pakistan and my cousin told him that Karzai with the help of America has made a secret deal with Pakistan to annex afghanistan with us as the 5th province and became like aag baghola and starting cursing afghani nation for being beghairat and non united and we left the place with evil smile on our faces...

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## RangerPK

farhan_9909 said:


> i got your point that it is indeed a achievement for afghanistan as that got a yet another part to have access to warm water apart from Pakistan.decreasing the influence of pakistan over afghanistan.
> 
> I got this all.
> and what i said is that chabahar indeed might be better than gwadar for Afghanistan.(even though the afghanistan will now eff the iran with drugs/ganja/opium) but in the end Gwadar will have a better revenue compared to chabahar.



I think Iran is kina at an advantage because they impose their law with an iron hand, how ever we on the other hand are are unable to do so. Might be because our government can be unstable,.our government changes from martial law to democracy. Thus we kina lag behind. While Iran shows zero tolerances for any rebellion or misbehaviour against the state.


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## Contrarian

American Pakistani said:


> I know this project is future failure & waste of investment but obviously it will be known in history, next generations of Pakistanis will ask that if Iran was brother country(as said in Pakistan) then why did it support the countries that were arch enemies & hostile towards Pakistan.
> 
> Also i'm very much calm but my reply was to Irani member who asked that why Pakistanis are acting this way, so i made it clear that Pakistan was never & will never be against prosperity of any country but Iran choose wrong country to develop it's Chahbahar, it's like Pakistan choosing Israel to develop Gawadar or built IP gas-line.



You _do_ realize that Iran has a better relationship with India historically than Pakistan?

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## American Pakistani

karan.1970 said:


> Statements have no value. Pakistan also stated that it will not allow Al Queda leadership on its soil.. And we all know what happened in Abbotabad



A TOTAL OFFTOPIC POST FROM YOU.
What happened in Abbottabad was after Pakistan provide tip.
CIA-ISI efforts helped close in on militants, Abbottabad report says | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia
Timeline: Tip Leads U.S. to Usama Bin Laden | Fox News

No proof of Pakistani involvement.


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## karan.1970

American Pakistani said:


> A TOTAL OFFTOPIC POST FROM YOU.
> What happened in Abbottabad was after Pakistan provide tip.
> 
> No proof of Pakistani involvement.



Its not offtopic. Its an example that diplomatic statements like these have no value on the ground. (never said there was Pakistani involvement. Its anyone's guess  )

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## American Pakistani

Contrarian said:


> You _do_ realize that Iran has a better relationship with India historically than Pakistan?



That were with Mughuls who were invaders by indian perspective. Also Pakistan's relationship is much more older with Iran than india. Makran & Balochistan of Pakistan borders Iran not Bengal & Tamilado of india.

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## Contrarian

notorious_eagle said:


> Its not banking on the US but mere common sense. The US will not tolerate any activity that enriches Iran, it has successfully forced the Indians to back out of the IPI deal and forced the Indians to reduce their appetite for Iranian oil.


You do realize that US tried but failed to get India and China to cut their consumption of Iranian oil?
This despite Saudi Arabia offering to cover the entire amount of oil that they would reduce from Iran?

And that it is a breeze paying KSA instead of Iran?

Why then are both India and China buying oil from Iran?

And why is it that both these countries have been exempted from US sanctions?



> Not really. American strategic planners have realized that it is in the interests of the US to ensure that both Afghanistan and Pakistan are stable. This is why the Americans have shoved down billions of dollars in both Afghanistan and Pakistan to try and stabilize the situation. They have realized that their strategy in Afghanistan was flawed by not including the Pushtuns, this is why the Americans are now openly embracing the Taliban and opening up peace talks with them. If they wanted Afghanistan to remain volatile, they would have never made overtures to the Taliban. It is in the political interests of the US that both Afghanistan and Pakistan remain stable and prosper, State Department was quite explicit in that.


The State department may be explicit, but US actions and words dont always match.



> So you admit, the US was successful in its goal. It has everything to do with influence, whether you like it or not but the US remains to be the sole superpower when it comes to diplomatic, political, economic and military clout. Through their chokehold on the Global Financial System, they were successful in reducing China's and India's oil appetite for Iranian oil.


They were successful in reducing it, but as I mentioned above, they were not successful in eliminating it. And that is only India and China who are exempted from the oil sanctions on Iran, despite KSA offering to take up any slack.



> Indeed, they offered something to the Indians they simply could not refuse. In case of Chahbar, they don't have to offer anything because the Americans are the top dogs in Afghanistan and India is at best a 'Non Entity'. India lacks the political, diplomatic and military clout required to be a major player in Afghanistan. Its a sad reality but unfortunately it is the reality.


You dont get it.
Americans are the top dogs in Afghanistan and India might be a non entity or a super entity. That is irrelevant. What India wants is a way to ship goods to and from the Central Asian Region along with Afghanistan.
Iran offers that by way of Chabahar - a port developed with Indian assistance.
US would again have to make an offer that India cannot refuse to let this port go and not use it.

Whether they would or not remains to be seen. But at the moment, things seem to be headed in the direction of an operational port in Iran and trade with India.


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## American Pakistani

karan.1970 said:


> Its not offtopic. Its an example that diplomatic statements like these have no value on the ground. (never said there was Pakistani involvement. Its everyone's guess  )



Yes just like india voted against Iran internationally but when it faces Iran it start bowing them.

As we say in Urdu 'Baghal mein churi, munh main ram ram'

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## karan.1970

American Pakistani said:


> Yes just like india voted against Iran internationally but when it faces Iran it start bowing them.
> 
> As we say in Urdu 'Baghal mein churi, munh main ram ram'



So you really have nothing to contribute except anecdotal statements.. ?? 

btw, is churi an Urdu word  ?

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## Contrarian

American Pakistani said:


> That were with Mughuls who were invaders by indian perspective. Also Pakistan's relationship is much more older with Iran than india. Makran & Balochistan of Pakistan borders Iran not Bengal & Tamilado of india.



I am not talking about Mughals. Independent India's relationship with Iran is better than Pakistan regardless of whether Bengal shares a border with them or not.

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## Serpentine

Why can't we have good relations with both India and Pakistan? I swear, it's possible guys! Neither Pakistan nor India is our enemy and we love them both.Having relations with one, doesn't undermine the other, at least not for Iran.

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## American Pakistani

karan.1970 said:


> So you really have nothing to contribute except anecdotal statements.. ??
> 
> btw, is churi an Urdu word  ?



I think i've clear the Pakistani opinion & concern very well supported by official statements & articles where required unlike you who continue to post offtopic.



karan.1970 said:


> btw, is churi an Urdu word  ?



You can present this offtopic to your brilliant teachers who teach you that Afghanistan can directly trade with india some how when it is not an immediate neighbor.


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## American Pakistani

Contrarian said:


> I am not talking about Mughals. Independent India's relationship with Iran is better than Pakistan regardless of whether Bengal shares a border with them or not.



I don't think india's relations with Iran are more stronger than Pakistan.


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## Contrarian

American Pakistani said:


> I don't think india's relations with Iran are more stronger than Pakistan.



Its your call what you think.

The only downswing in Iran's relations with India have occurred when India voted against Iran. Even after that, India shares exemplary relations with Iran.

Your calling them 'brother nation' doesnt change the fact that Iran and India share a relationship and Iran would agree to India even if Pakistan did not like it.


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## pakistani342

My few cents on this:

1. I think it is good for both Pakistan and Afghanistan if Afghanistan and Pakistan delink from each other

2. The questions thats Pakistanis need to ask themselves are:
a. Does the revenue from Afghanistan's use of Karachi offset the damage caused to Pakistan by the influx of drugs, guns by Afghans, the lost import duty, the cost that Afghan refugees exert of Pakistan. The Answer no, not be a large margin

b. Further it forces already incompetent and overburdened Pakistani government officials to spend thinking cycles on Afghanistan when they should be dealing with issues that concern Pakistanis such as health care, social development, jobs, the economy.

c. Similar to "b" our foreign policy should be concerned with further integrating with China and dealing with Afghanistan saps our energy.

3. The Afghans have been extremely hostile to Pakistanis since Pakistan's foundation, before any Pakistani meddeling

4. The Afghans are extremely hostile to the Pakistani people even after 7 million or so of them (roughly 50% of their one time population) were provided refuge by Pakistanis for decades.

5. Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Indonesia, have successfully become prosperous and are doing fine without Afghanistan.

Hence:

1. Pakistan should see Afghanistan solely through the Pakistani prism - what benefits us.

2. Pakistan should demand her pound of flesh if it suits her.

3. Pakistan should not provide transit trade to Afghanistan by giving them access to our ports or Wagah.

4. Pakistan should expel the Afghans from Pakistan as soon as possible

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## A1Kaid

Sher Malang said:


> Organic fruits, dry fruits, saffron, rugs, mines and minerals for the time being.
> 
> But India can export many products to Afghanistan lets hope this bilateral trade hits $1bln within a year!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes  and we can secretly have secret deals





> Yes  and we can secretly have secret deals ;



Yes, like all the secret opium, hash, and heroine . Hope you guys succeed in drugging the whole Indian population.

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## qamar1990

Well to quote you from post number 63 - 

"key word "going to"
its nothing but wet dreams as of now."


ok.... lol its not wet dreams, india grew by 5 percent the last year, pakistan almost grew by 4 percent so we not far off considering the energy problems and the war on terror, so what do you have to say about that? your barely beating us by a point with half as much problems as us.



WTF?! Kindly google the following -
"Financing Fiscal Deficit".[/QUOTE]


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## Major Sam

Contrarian said:


> I am not talking about Mughals. Independent India's relationship with Iran is better than Pakistan regardless of whether Bengal shares a border with them or not.



Thats why they supported india in 1965 and 9171 wars .... Oh sorry it was pakistan

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## Nishan_101

Honestly speaking Pakistan itself needs minerals and food items imports from Afghanistan too.


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## AUSTERLITZ

Sher Malang said:


> @Pulsar, as karan said we are slow and steady the railway line is next + Iran has given major trade opportunities to Afghan businessmen to lure them from importing via Karachi and very soon the Aqina port will be functional like never before and will give us greater access directly to Europe + the port will be connected with railway line soon:
> 
> Aqina port - Ministry of Commerce and Industries
> 
> Construction of Mazar-e-Sharif-Aqina Railway Project Inaugurated
> 
> Construction of Afghan-Turkmenistan Railway to Begin
> 
> Aqina port revenue up by 57%- Afghan officials | Wadsam



Once this aqina port is operational combined with chabahar afghanisthan will be our primary corridor to central asia and russia.Win win for both countries.

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## AUSTERLITZ

Serpentine said:


> Why can't we have good relations with both India and Pakistan? I swear, it's possible guys! Neither Pakistan nor India is our enemy and we love them both.Having relations with one, doesn't undermine the other, at least not for Iran.



Agreed,i am looking forward to indo iranian co operation on massive scale.


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## karan.1970

American Pakistani said:


> I think i've clear the Pakistani opinion & concern very well supported by official statements & articles where required unlike you who continue to post offtopic.
> 
> 
> 
> You can present this offtopic to your brilliant teachers who teach you that Afghanistan can directly trade with india some how when it is not an immediate neighbor.



Dude, what's off topic in my post ? You are simply making statements without any backups and just want to claim that you have ... And about direct trade, well, you need to realize that both India and Pakistan directly trade with USA without being its immediate neighbor.. Dont we ?

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## Kompromat

This news is a blessing in disguise for Pakistan. Only things that come to Pakistan from Afghanistan are drugs,arms and terrorists. It will allow us to curb them better.

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## my2cents

That Guy said:


> First off, using known unreliable sources is a bad idea, yes, I include anyone from the Afghan gov too, because they have no idea what's going on half the time.
> 
> Second, you're making a lot of assumptions. This will happen assuming the Afghan gov and ANA can actually survive a post-NATO withdrawal long enough to have lasting affects on the Afghan economy, and I can tell you that it'll take at least another 10 years for that to happen, without any interruptions and continued foreign funding.
> 
> Third, you're also assuming that the US will tolerate Afghanistan cozying up to Iran, even if the Indian are watching over the whole proces. The US and India still aren't at the level of trust yet to actually rely on each other, and considering that India is not foolish, this level of trust will not happen for the foreseeable future, simply because India has looked at the US's attitude towards it's supposed allies and doesn't trust the US.



Admit your a$$ is burning because of this development. At last we don't have to totally depend on your transit corridor. With Chinese in picture you have given us enough reasons to be concerned about your intentions. If you guys had given us unhindered access for transit to central Asia then we didn't have to look to Iran. Now your transit trump card has been effectively neutralized by India. Welcome to Chanakya neethi 101.


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## foxbat

Aeronaut said:


> This news is a blessing in disguise for Pakistan. Only things that come to Pakistan from Afghanistan are drugs,arms and terrorists. It will allow us to curb them better.



You need to be careful, lest the things you mentioned keep coming to Pakistan anyway, with trade getting diverted via Iran

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## Kompromat

foxbat said:


> You need to be careful, lest the things you mentioned keep coming to Pakistan anyway, with trade getting diverted via Iran



It depends on the govt that comes into power in Afghanistan and how it decides to run its affairs. Any conclusions atm are just smoking crack.


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## That Guy

my2cents said:


> Admit your a$$ is burning because of this development. At last we don't have to totally depend on your transit corridor. With Chinese in picture you have given us enough reasons to be concerned about your intentions. If you guys had given us unhindered access for transit to central Asia then we didn't have to look to Iran. Now your transit trump card has been effectively neutralized by India. Welcome to Chanakya neethi 101.



Continue to assuming things, I insist. Eventually, you'll realize that such assumptions are not based on fact.

I don't have to admit to anything, as nothing noteworthy has actually occurred. With the way that Iran is being targeted by the international community, India will probably be hard pressed to continue doing business with Iran without facing some sort of consequence. Not to mention that it'll still cost you a **** ton more than the direct access through Pakistan.

You also have this foolish notion that India and Afghanistan will no longer have to rely on Pakistan, but that's clearly false. The port has yet to develop completely, and it will take decades for India and Afghanistan to stop their reliance on Pakistan for trade, that's assuming India isn't pressured into stopping it's business with Iran, or that Afghan gov actually survives that long.

Besides, why should Pakistan give complete access to India without some restrictions in place? You have given me no reason to believe that India wouldn't exploit such access against Pakistan and China.


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## kaykay

Serpentine said:


> Comparing India and Israel on this issue is not right at all:
> 1.India has a sole economical interest in Chabahar, while I don't think Israeli presence in Pak-Iran border would have any economical aspect.
> 2.Neither Iran nor Pakistan have relations with Israel.
> 3.Despite hostilities, Pakistan and India have economical relations, so you can't deny Iran expanding relations with one of its greatest trade partners.So it's not fair at all.It's like Iran complaining about Pak-Saudi or Pak-American relations which is none of our business.
> 4.What are you expecting India to do in Chabahar?Training terrorists and sending them to Pakistan? Iran is not Somalia my dear, it doesn't even make sense for India to do this.They have a much larger border with Pakistan themselves, if they ever plan to train terrorists (which I find unlikely), they will do it from there, not by risking their relations with Iran.



Oye kake Dil jeet litta!!! Can't Agree More.


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## That Guy

S.A. said:


> *Afghanistan begins to export products directly to India for the first time in its history*
> 
> My only question is how *directly*?
> 
> Currently they are using Pakistani port, now they will use Iranian, so how is this directly???
> 
> *I am doubtful that India can/will use this port for military purpose... Correct me if I am wrong..*.
> 
> Which middle man they are bypassing.... they are only trying to change the middleman...



Agree with this, Iran and India may have good relations, but the Iranians will not risk alienating Pakistan, which it has been trying to expand it's influence in. India will not have any form of military assets in Iran.


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## my2cents

That Guy said:


> I don't have to admit to anything, as nothing note worthy has actually occurred. With the way that Iran is being targeted by the international community, India will probably be hard pressed to continue doing business with Iran without facing some sort of consequence. Not to mention that it'll still cost you a **** ton more than the direct access through Pakistan.
> 
> Besides, why should Pakistan give access to India? You have given me no reason to believe that India wouldn't exploit such access against Pakistan and China.



You guys have to realize that world will look at this development positively because Iran is helping Afghanistan in a positive manner. Iran is trying to win friends in this region and will try to get out of their isolation because it is effecting their economy.


Also it is in Pakistani interest to give unhindered access to India because our energy needs are growing by the day and amount of trade that will pass through your country will make you prosperous too. Why would we exploit you if it is benefiting both our countries?? 

Even China will realize in due time their strategic interests do not have tangible benefits because of security situation in your country.


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## deckingraj

That Guy said:


> Continue to assuming things, I insist. Eventually, you'll realize that such assumptions are not based on fact.
> 
> I don't have to admit to anything, as nothing noteworthy has actually occurred. With the way that Iran is being targeted by the international community, *India will probably be hard pressed to continue doing business with Iran without facing some sort of consequence.*



With the bold part in mind what are your thoughts on the below given link??

Pak-Iran gas pipeline to be completed by 2014

Are you saying the today Pakistan is in much better state than India as to ward off US pressure??



> Not to mention that it'll still cost you a **** ton more than the direct access through Pakistan.



Not true if you stop ignoring the risks involved...If all remains well no doubt direct access is going to be cheapest...however direct access is very volatile and thus overall cost(which will include risk mitigation) might make this direct route less favorable than the chabbar route, no??



> You also have this foolish notion that India and Afghanistan will no longer have to rely on Pakistan, but that's clearly false. The port has yet to develop completely, and it will take decades for India and Afghanistan to stop their reliance on Pakistan for trade, that's assuming India isn't pressured into stopping it's business with Iran, or that Afghan gov actually survives that long.


There is no need to bypass Pakistan at all...This port just reduces the leverage that Pakistan has over AF...In short now there is an alternative present which is a very good move. Now of-course this port is not going to become hot spot just from day 1...however it has the potential to be one and i am sure even you can't deny that...



> Besides, why should Pakistan give complete access to India without some restrictions in place? You have given me no reason to believe that India wouldn't exploit such access against Pakistan and China.


Well i believe it is the economics that will decide what leverage Pak will give...If Pak finds it at a loosing streak by restricting the trade then economic sanity will force her otherwise status quo will be maintained...


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## That Guy

my2cents said:


> You guys have to realize that world will look at this development positively because Iran is helping Afghanistan in a positive manner. Iran is trying to win friends in this region and will try to get out of their isolation because it is effecting their economy.
> 
> 
> Also it is in Pakistani interest to give unhindered access to India because our energy needs are growing by the day and amount of trade that will pass through your country will make you prosperous too. Why would we exploit you if it is benefiting both our countries??
> 
> Even China will realize in due time their strategic interests do not have tangible benefits because of security situation in your country.



Well, this is annoying, I wrote an entire article and my laptop decided that it wanted to experience what death was like.

I'd reply to you again, but I really feel annoyed right now, so give me a few days to get back to you.



deckingraj said:


> With the bold part in mind what are your thoughts on the below given link??
> 
> Pak-Iran gas pipeline to be completed by 2014
> 
> Are you saying the today Pakistan is in much better state than India as to ward off US pressure??
> 
> 
> 
> Not true if you stop ignoring the risks involved...If all remains well no doubt direct access is going to be cheapest...however direct access is very volatile and thus overall cost(which will include risk mitigation) might make this direct route less favorable than the chabbar route, no??
> 
> 
> There is no need to bypass Pakistan at all...This port just reduces the leverage that Pakistan has over AF...In short now there is an alternative present which is a very good move. Now of-course this port is not going to become hot spot just from day 1...however it has the potential to be one and i am sure even you can't deny that...
> 
> 
> Well i believe it is the economics that will decide what leverage Pak will give...If Pak finds it at a loosing streak by restricting the trade then economic sanity will force her otherwise status quo will be maintained...



ditto.......


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## Black Widow

*I never expected this thread would have reached 13 pages*


I need some time to see what discussion is going on here...

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## Capt.Popeye

Aeronaut said:


> This news is a blessing in disguise for Pakistan. Only things that come to Pakistan from Afghanistan are drugs,arms and terrorists. It will allow us to curb them better.



How?????
*Do you think that "drugs, arms and terrorists" come in sealed containers, accompanied by manifests and customs documents, driven through a barrier, on a highway?*
They come with those guys called *Taliban* (good , bad and ugly) who cross the borders at will, because nobody stops them.
If you can't do it now; what are the prospects of doing so in the future? Can anybody say for sure?

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## Edevelop

India can enjoy until 2014. After that ISI is ready to take over Afghanistan and bring China along side it for real economic activity

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## Capt.Popeye

cb4 said:


> India can enjoy until 2014. After that ISI is ready to take over Afghanistan and bring China along side it for real economic activity



For starters; let ISI take over its own country, Pakistan. IE let it control, manage things within its own land. Did you read the "Abbottabad Report"?
After that ISI can think of cooking up some other "khayali Pulaos"!!

As for the Chinese; they have no taste for "khayali Pulaos" in Pakistan. They will stick to their Roast Ducks and Noodles.

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## deckingraj

cb4 said:


> India can enjoy until 2014. After that ISI is ready to take over Afghanistan and bring China along side it for real economic activity



Good luck to you and ISI....however one request...don't bring the same kind of economic activity that you brought there when Taliban was in-charge...

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## Kompromat

Capt.Popeye said:


> How?????
> *Do you think that "drugs, arms and terrorists" come in sealed containers, accompanied by manifests and customs documents, driven through a barrier, on a highway?*
> They come with those guys called *Taliban* (good , bad and ugly) who cross the borders at will, because nobody stops them.
> If you can't do it now; what are the prospects of doing so in the future? Can anybody say for sure?



Which part of this post am i supposed to answer?


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## A1Kaid

India should have more people to people contact with Afghanistan. Afghanistan-India trade is good, no reason why these two countries shouldn't trade more.


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## Capt.Popeye

Aeronaut said:


> Which part of this post am i supposed to answer?



Whichever part that you can?

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## Cheetah786

> =karan.1970;4574540]Pakistan Makes Deal With IMF for Bailout - WSJ.com
> 
> Pakistan seeks IMF bailout - DAWN.COM
> 
> meh... !!!



Hey Einstein do we have to pay it back yes or no? dont swim around?




> You tell me.. Last I checked, we were doing a major port development in partnership with Iran and there was a talk of defense cooperation
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...lcomes-defense-cooperation-iran-minister.html



L O L what did u think Iranians are stupid they going to take their bat and go home off course not.

Last i checked Iranian are also looking into Chinese investment in that port uh oh what what


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## karan.1970

Cheetah786 said:


> Hey Einstein do we have to pay it back yes or no? dont swim around?



In today's environment any loan @ 3% interest rate (specially when pakistan's credit rating is of junk grade with govt bonds' yeild of 11.5% ) is a bail out.. even if you have to pay it back. Learn a little bit about economics before throwing up such naive arguments. Do you understand the concept of Cost of Capital?




Cheetah786 said:


> Last i checked Iranian are also looking into Chinese investment in that port uh oh what what


And how does that change India's usage of Chah bahar..?

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## Capt.Popeye

Cheetah786 said:


> Last i checked Iranian are also looking into Chinese investment in that port uh oh what what



Before doing  think about why the Chinese are closely looking at Chah Bahar?




You think about it! 
Because the Chinese are hedging their bets on Gwadar. Remember that the Chinese (like the Indians) are investing in Afghanistan. They have to ship their 'mineral produce' out of someplace. 
Given the problems around Gwadar; if Gwadar does not take off? 
Even the Chinese (like the Afghans) are looking to open their options. I have already explained that earlier in post(s) in this thread.
Why did PSA leave? 
They made the port in Gwadar; but nothing worthwhile moved through that port. 
Why did that happen? 
Because there was no end to the unstable security situation around Gwadar.
Ergo, PSA quit.

Moral of the story: Business goes where the conditions are conducive; esp wrt Security.
That is where Chah Bahar scores now. That is why the Chinese are also looking at Chah Bahar. There will be other potential users looking at Chah Bahar going forward. Even the EU and USA....

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## American Pakistani

karan.1970 said:


> Dude, what's off topic in my post ?



Your posts about _Abbottabad incident_ plus you asking me if _Churi_ is an Urdu word or French word, they are related very much to the topic, rite? 



karan.1970 said:


> You are simply making statements without any backups and just want to claim that you have ...



I provide source where ever required you can check out.



karan.1970 said:


> And about direct trade, well, you need to realize that both India and Pakistan directly trade with USA without being its immediate neighbor.. Dont we ?



Yes because they have access to international waters, they are not trading via third country. Afghanistan cannot directly trade with india because it is landlocked country with no access to any open international waters.


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## karan.1970

American Pakistani said:


> Your posts about _Abbottabad incident_ plus you asking me if _Churi_ is an Urdu word or French word, they are related very much to the topic, rite?



C'mon dude.. You brought the context of Churi in your lame attempt at a Hindi proverb (as you say in Urdu ).. And yes the Abbotabad incident goes to show that empty statements have no significance.. Just like the statements you mentioned that Pakistan has made regarding not allowing its soil to be used against Iran (as if you would have a choice if USA so decides)





American Pakistani said:


> I provide source where ever required you can check out.


Do point out...




American Pakistani said:


> Yes because they have access to international waters, they are not trading via third country. Afghanistan cannot directly trade with india because it is landlocked country with no access to any open international waters.


To get access to international waters, Afg does not need to involve Iran as a 3rd party in trade with India. It simply needs to buy transit rights. Or if India agrees to take delivery of goods at the Iranian border, not even that.. That's how intl trade works


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## American Pakistani

karan.1970 said:


> C'mon dude.. You brought the context of Churi in your lame attempt at a Hindi proverb (as you say in Urdu ).. And yes the Abbotabad incident goes to show that empty statements have no significance.. Just like the statements you mentioned that Pakistan has made regarding not allowing its soil to be used against Iran (as if you would have a choice if USA so decides)




Yes i just quote one Urdu proverb, you start asking me if _Churi_ is an Urdu word or German word.

Wo kehtay hain na Urdu mein _aap ko aam khanay say matlab hai ya guthliyan ginnay say_



karan.1970 said:


> Do point out...



You can check it yourself. I post the sources when required clearly only a blind man won't find them.



karan.1970 said:


> To get access to international waters, Afg does not need to involve Iran as a 3rd party in trade with India. It simply needs to buy transit rights. Or if India agrees to take delivery of goods at the Iranian border, not even that.. That's how intl trade works



But it's exports will pass through Irani territory, transit right doesn't mean you own that territory. Afg will have to use Iran & so it cannot be called direct route.

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## Kompromat

Sher Malang said:


> Finally the strong triangle is practical IRAN-AFGHANISTAN-INDIA now and the feeling of being sandwiched between Afghanistan and Indian by some of our Pakistani fellows is not good this achievement does not mean it will harm Pakistan in anyway!



There is no such triangle, and Pakistan is a little too strong for being sandwiched by a country who forms the largest quantity of refugees including you.

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## Spring Onion

A1Kaid said:


> India should have more people to people contact with Afghanistan. Afghanistan-India trade is good, no reason why these two countries shouldn't trade more.


 if they got the moon why they are even wasting time to comment in the first place?

i mean internet Afghanistanis should cling to one edge of the triangle and bharatis to the other two while Iran i believe will think over wisely before claiming anything silly so may be a square in the making

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## Sher Malang

Aeronaut said:


> There is no such triangle, and Pakistan is a little too strong for being sandwiched by a country who forms the largest quantity of refugees including you.



I will wait till your burn goes away and post something qualitative.

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## Hellraiser007

farhan_9909 said:


> How the hell can 1 compare Gwadar with chabahar
> 
> Afghanistan GDP is 20billions dollars.and there overall trade is less than few billions dollars.
> 
> Pakistan counts for 70% of there export and 40% of imports
> 
> Gwadar on the other hand if alone china use the port.they have trade with middle east worth 210billions dollars as of 2010-11 and msut be close to 300billions dollars now
> 
> Chabahar annual trade line would be a couple of billions dollars while gwadar in excess of half a trillion dollars



If that is the trade potential then why chinese are not using your karachi port all these years?



American Pakistani said:


> How would Iran feel if Pakistanis invite Israel on Pak-Iran border. Already india is supporting TTP & BLA terrorists via Afghanistan(23 indian consulates on Pak-Afghan border).
> http://tribune.com.pk/story/512867/...ms-for-pakistan-from-afghanistan-chuck-hagel/
> 
> Pakistan is only concerned that india will use Irani territory against Pakistan just like Afghan territory.



How will India feel when Chinese are invited into Gilgit, Baltistan?


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## Secur

agamdilawari said:


> Bypassing middlemen is always nice, be it in domestic issues or internationally



Please , enlighten everyone how exactly is the middlemen bypassed here . Afghanistan hasn't/cant export/import stuff directly , it always needs a middlemen because of its geographical constraints . At least , bother to have a look at the map .

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## Secur

Gautam said:


> *You too were dependent on India* once but then you stood up.



When was that ? Dependent for what ? Trade ? Transit ? What exactly are you over exaggerating here ?

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## agamdilawari

Secur said:


> Please , enlighten everyone how exactly is the middlemen bypassed here . Afghanistan hasn't/cant export/import stuff directly , it always needs a middlemen because of its geographical constraints . At least , bother to have a look at the map .



I stand corrected there...should have said bypassing 'useless' middlemen and switching onto a friendly one


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## Secur

agamdilawari said:


> I stand corrected there...should have said bypassing 'useless' middlemen and switching onto a friendly one



You sure stand corrected , assuming that you dont understand English 

Not that I expected anything better . I must remind you that ' useless ' middlemen still imports/exports overwhelming majority of goods for Afghanistan to the extent that if the supply route is closed then it will surely do wonders for whatever economy the Afghans have currently and Iran isn't all that friendly to Kabul as you think . Still doesn't change the fact that the Afghans always need to use a middlemen and there's no such thing as ' exports directly to India ' as mentioned in the article . 

_&#8220;*But it doesn&#8217;t mean an end to exports via the Wagah border between Pakistan and India. *However, the Chabahar option is more economical and profitable for Afghanistan,&#8221; Pajhwok Afghan News quotes Abdul Qadeer Mustafa, spokesman to the Export Promotion Agency of Afghanistan (EPAA)._

Did you read that part ?


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## Truth Finder

Access to Afghanistan means access to resource-rich Central Asia.

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## my2cents

American Pakistani said:


> How would Iran feel if Pakistanis invite Israel on Pak-Iran border. Already india is supporting TTP & BLA terrorists via Afghanistan(23 indian consulates on Pak-Afghan border).
> &#8216;India financed problems for Pakistan&#8217; from Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> Pakistan is only concerned that india will use Irani territory against Pakistan just like Afghan territory.



Where does it say there are 23 indian consulates present in Afghanistan??? Can you list them??


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## Gautam

Secur said:


> When was that ? Dependent for what ? Trade ? Transit ? What exactly are you over exaggerating here ?



Chill man... reading the post may help.


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## American Pakistani

Hellraiser007 said:


> How will India feel when Chinese are invited into Gilgit, Baltistan?



Iran & Pakistan are brotherly/friendly nations whereas Pakistan & india are not.


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## notorious_eagle

Sher Malang said:


> I will wait till your burn goes away and post something qualitative.



Nothing to burn here buddy, its a fact. Pakistan is a little too strong to be sandwiched by either Iran, Afghanistan or India. Its the perks of having a Professional Army

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## Mech

notorious_eagle said:


> Nothing to burn here buddy, its a fact. Pakistan is a little too strong to be sandwiched by either Iran, Afghanistan or India. Its the perks of having a Professional Army



Professional army ?! You can't even keep your military bases secure.

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## American Pakistani

my2cents said:


> Where does it say there are 23 indian consulates present in Afghanistan??? Can you list them??





> The Indian Government has created a string of &#8220;consulates&#8221; along the Afghan side of the Pakistan border, largely as intelligence collection facilities, and a large number of Indian intelligence officials were working closely with Afghan intelligence officials. This has caused the Pakistan Government some concern,


Pakistan Times! » RAW Creating Trouble for NATO in Afghanistan

US to Delhi: Shut down Indian


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## Roybot

American Pakistani said:


> Pakistan Times! » RAW Creating Trouble for NATO in Afghanistan
> 
> US to Delhi: Shut down Indian



India has one Embassy (Kabul) and 4 consulates (Mazar-e-Sharif, Kandhar, Jalalabad, Herat) in Afghanistan. Stop listening to Zaid Hamid types.

Embassy of India, Kabul

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## pakdefender

Roybot said:


> India has one Embassy (Kabul) and 4 consulates (Mazar-e-Sharif, Kandhar, Jalalabad, Herat) in Afghanistan. Stop listening to Zaid Hamid types.
> 
> Embassy of India, Kabul



soon there shall be none

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## Roybot

pakdefender said:


> soon there shall be none



Yes yes, Taliban Zindabad.....

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## Secur

Capt.Popeye said:


> Moral of the story: Business goes where the conditions are conducive; esp wrt Security.
> 
> That is where Chah Bahar scores now. That is why the Chinese are also looking at Chah Bahar. There will be other potential users looking at Chah Bahar going forward. Even the EU and USA....



Precisely , but the problem here is you are giving the example of Afghanistan for that business friendly environment - of which security and law and order are most important 

There are two problems with Chahbahar here .

International sanctions on Iran are the worst obstacle - severe limitations on foreign trade , financial services , energy sectors , insurance and reinsurance , technologies even medications , ban from the SWIFT system remain a major hindrance for Iran and other countries to bolster trade with each other . That is one reason , why I always considered the IP pipeline , nothing but an election stunt . The relations with the West haven't shown any indication of improving even the slightest in the foreseeable future with the US house passing another bill just two days ago , further toughening sanctions on Iran's oil exports signalling something not-good for the new regime . I see no end to this International isolation with Iran insisting to continue its nuclear program and insecurities of the neighboring countries . There's no way to transfer money to the Persian nation , in such case , how exactly can one expect the Chahbahar port to take off ? Just how ? From what I understand , the Chinese interest in more for nullifying Indian influence than anything else , since no sane nation will want its cargo to pass through Afghanistan in the worst law and order situation with no end in sight . The Americans and the Europeans are going to be looking at Chahbahar ? Was that a joke ? 

Arab's beef with Persians - is more historical than based on any current dispute/conflict . The Gulf nations have been persistent in supporting the tough sanctions against Tehran with their strong lobby in Washington . So even if U.S. and E.U. want to lift sanctions against Iran , they must prepare to balance their interests in the Middle East and risk the resentment of Arabs collectively this time , because maybe its easier to deal with a country , the same isn't true for a whole block of countries with a rivalry that goes back centuries . I do not see any reason why would they want the sanctions to be removed because when it comes to Arab-Persians rivalry , each party will even side with Lucifer to win against other , if past is any indication . Who has the majority of the Oil reserves for the petrodollar ? Next , I see no advantage which Tehran offers over the whole Arab block . Then , why should the West prefer Iran over the GCC ?

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## Major Sam

Secur said:


> Precisely , but the problem here is you are giving the example of Afghanistan for that business friendly environment - of which security and law and order are most important
> 
> There are two problems with Chahbahar here .
> 
> International sanctions on Iran are the worst obstacle - severe limitations on foreign trade , financial services , energy sectors , insurance and reinsurance , technologies even medications , ban from the SWIFT system remain a major hindrance for Iran and other countries to bolster trade with each other . That is one reason , why I always considered the IP pipeline , nothing but an election stunt . The relations with the West haven't shown any indication of improving even the slightest in the foreseeable future with the US house passing another bill just two days ago , further toughening sanctions on Iran's oil exports . I see no end to this International isolation with Iran insisting to continue its nuclear program . There's no way to transfer money to the Persian nation , in such case , how exactly can one expect the Chahbahar port to take off ? Just how ? From what I understand , the Chinese interest in more for nullifying Indian influence than anything else , since no sane nation will want its cargo to pass through Afghanistan in the worst law and order situation with no end in sight . The Americans and the Europeans are going to be looking at Chahbahar ? Was that a joke ?
> 
> Arab's beef with Persians - is more historical than based on any current dispute/conflict . The Gulf nations have been persistent in supporting the tough sanctions against Tehran with their strong lobby in Washington . So even if U.S. and E.U. want to lift sanctions against Iran , they must prepare to balance their interests in the Middle East and risk the resentment of Arabs collectively this time , because maybe its easier to deal with a country , the same isn't true for a whole block of countries with a rivalry that goes back centuries . I do not see any reason why would they want the sanctions to be removed because when it comes to Arab-Persians rivalry , each party will even side with Lucifer to win against other . Next , I see no advantage which Tehran offers over the whole Arab block !



yara koi faida nhi at the end they will come with new logic. awien apna dimagh khapaty ho

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## my2cents

American Pakistani said:


> Pakistan Times! » RAW Creating Trouble for NATO in Afghanistan
> 
> US to Delhi: Shut down Indian



No mention of 23 consulates in both the articles. One is a blog article and another is from Rupee news both not authentic. Try harder!!! Is there a list of these consulates anywhere on the net??? Or is it figment of your imagination???

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## notorious_eagle

Mech said:


> Professional army ?! You can't even keep your military bases secure.



Thats an internal matter not an external matter, it has more to do with domestic incompetence rather than the Professionalism of the Army. Last i remembered, we have enough firepower to raze India to the ground. You should have learned it by now when PA successfully stared down your Army when we were both looking eyeball to eyeball .

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## Gandhi G in da house

notorious_eagle said:


> Thats an internal matter not an external matter, it has more to do with domestic incompetence rather than the Professionalism of the Army. Last i remembered, we have enough firepower to raze India to the ground. You should have learned it by now when PA successfully stared down your Army when we were both looking eyeball to eyeball .



No you don't and no you didn't. Snap back to reality. When things actually came down to blows, you were the ones who got razed every single time.

Keywords : Bangladesh (separate country) , Kashmir (Still with India).


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## Contrarian

notorious_eagle said:


> Last i remembered, *we have enough firepower to raze India to the ground*. You should have learned it by now when *PA successfully stared down your Army when we were both looking eyeball to eyeball* .



If they did, then Kashmir would have been Pakistani territory by now.


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## my2cents

notorious_eagle said:


> Thats an internal matter not an external matter, it has more to do with domestic incompetence rather than the Professionalism of the Army. Last i remembered, we have enough firepower to raze India to the ground. You should have learned it by now when PA successfully stared down your Army when we were both looking eyeball to eyeball .



We have also seen how your soldiers successfully stared down at our army sitting on Kargil posts???


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## livingdead

notorious_eagle said:


> Thats an internal matter not an external matter, it has more to do with domestic incompetence rather than the Professionalism of the Army. Last i remembered, we have enough firepower to raze India to the ground. You should have learned it by now when *PA successfully stared down your Army when we were both looking eyeball to eyeball* .



lolz.. we used to play this game in primary school... respect for winning it...

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## Mech

notorious_eagle said:


> Thats an internal matter not an external matter, it has more to do with domestic incompetence rather than the Professionalism of the Army. Last i remembered, we have enough firepower to raze India to the ground. You should have learned it by now when PA successfully stared down your Army when we were both looking eyeball to eyeball .



Internal matter ? It was pretty international when abottabad and hundred+ drone strikes happened before and after. Every province is a hell hole with the exception of Islamabad and lahore.

I don't think its internal matter when terrorists are capable brazenly entering your AF/Navy/army bases and destroying valuable assets. Your military is determined to display its sheer incompetence all across the world. It stopped being "internal" long ago.

The only thing holding everyone back is the pakistani nuclear arsenal. This however will be irrelevant if the pakistani state ends up getting balkanized due to "internal" pressures.

As for "razing" India down, wake up. Please.


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## RazPaK

Mech said:


> Internal matter ? It was pretty international when abottabad happened and the hundred+ drone strikes before and after. Every province is a hell hole with the exception of Islamabad and lahore.
> 
> I don't think its internal matter when terrorists are capable brazenly entering your AF/Navy/army bases and destroying valuable assets. Your military is determined to display its sheer incompetence all across the world. It stopped being "internal" long ago.
> 
> The only thing holding everyone back is the pakistani nuclear arsenal. This however will be irrelevant if the pakistani state ends up getting balkanized due to "internal" pressures.



And the bhartee just released. 


Quite the wet dream it was.


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## Mech

RazPaK said:


> And the bhartee just released.
> 
> 
> Quite the wet dream it was.



Quite. But likely enough to happen.


----------



## notorious_eagle

nick_indian said:


> No you don't and no you didn't.



Off course we did. In 2002 India threatened Pakistan with a full scale war and destruction. Ordered a full mobilization, came to the border realizing that they were about a month late, than ran back without anything to show for it. 2008, India again threatens Pakistan with war and surgical strike, even tries to act naughty but we all know how Pakistan responded. Result, India forced to back down despite having 10X more resources than Pakistan. 



nick_indian said:


> Snap back to reality. When things actually came down to blows, you were the ones who got razed every single time.



Not really, if that was the case Pakistan wouldn't be a country. 



nick_indian said:


> Keywords : Bangladesh (separate country) ,



Complicated issue. East Pakistan ceased to be a part of Pakistan the day West Pakistanis introduced their discriminatory policies against their former brethren's. Only a matter of time before the Indians swooped in. 



nick_indian said:


> Kashmir (Still with India).



Its very hard for Pakistan to win Kashmir in terms of military power. After all; India is 10 times bigger than Pakistan in terms of resources, manpower, money and materials. Its not really a match between two equals, its a miracle that Pakistan has been able to stand on its own against such overwhelming odds and keep its part of Kashmir which India claims as '***'.



Contrarian said:


> If they did, then Kashmir would have been Pakistani territory by now.



Read my response above. 

And you would be a fool to think that Pakistan didn't stare down India in 2002 and 2008. The mood on the Indian side was to fight a war and teach a lesson to Pakistan. If it wasn't for the capability possessed by PA, India would have succeeded in its desire to get naughty.

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## indushek

Secur said:


> Precisely , but the problem here is you are giving the example of Afghanistan for that business friendly environment - of which security and law and order are most important
> 
> There are two problems with Chahbahar here .
> 
> International sanctions on Iran are the worst obstacle - severe limitations on foreign trade , financial services , energy sectors , insurance and reinsurance , technologies even medications , ban from the SWIFT system remain a major hindrance for Iran and other countries to bolster trade with each other . That is one reason , why I always considered the IP pipeline , nothing but an election stunt . The relations with the West haven't shown any indication of improving even the slightest in the foreseeable future with the US house passing another bill just two days ago , further toughening sanctions on Iran's oil exports signalling something not-good for the new regime . I see no end to this International isolation with Iran insisting to continue its nuclear program and insecurities of the neighboring countries . There's no way to transfer money to the Persian nation , in such case , how exactly can one expect the Chahbahar port to take off ? Just how ? From what I understand , the Chinese interest in more for nullifying Indian influence than anything else , since no sane nation will want its cargo to pass through Afghanistan in the worst law and order situation with no end in sight . The Americans and the Europeans are going to be looking at Chahbahar ? Was that a joke ?
> 
> Arab's beef with Persians - is more historical than based on any current dispute/conflict . The Gulf nations have been persistent in supporting the tough sanctions against Tehran with their strong lobby in Washington . So even if U.S. and E.U. want to lift sanctions against Iran , they must prepare to balance their interests in the Middle East and risk the resentment of Arabs collectively this time , because maybe its easier to deal with a country , the same isn't true for a whole block of countries with a rivalry that goes back centuries . I do not see any reason why would they want the sanctions to be removed because when it comes to Arab-Persians rivalry , each party will even side with Lucifer to win against other , if past is any indication . Who has the majority of the Oil reserves for the petrodollar ? Next , I see no advantage which Tehran offers over the whole Arab block . Then , why should the West prefer Iran over the GCC ?



The Sanctions and its effects are known to everybody, a country like America with programs like PRISM doesn't know what India is doing in Chabahar ?? 

There is no need for the Sanctions to end for India in this case, our worry is to have an alternate route to Afghanistan and we got it here. You think Chinese are investing in Iran just to spite us Indians .

I will not comment on the Arabian Persian beef as that would side track us, but what does Iran has to offer one can answer as it is directly related. With Chabahar American's can get a better route to leave Afghanistan, also the Indian Russian Iranian nexus viz a viz Afghanistan is long known. Considering the relations of USA and Pakistan, this offers alternative to USA. Also Iran can guarantee (with others involved) the continued prosper of the Govt in Afghanistan, I am sure with smaller forces and bases in Afghanistan USA wouldn't want antagonistic Iran. 

There is no need to prefer Iran over anybody, live and let live is the mantra.


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## Secur

indushek said:


> The Sanctions and its effects are known to everybody, a country like America with programs like PRISM doesn't know what India is doing in Chabahar ??
> 
> There is no need to prefer Iran over anybody, live and let live is the mantra.



Really ? Your post doesn't convey the message that you are even aware of the effects of sanctions and how worse it has affected the Persian nation . Doesn't look like it , seeing the posts envisioning Chahbahar as the future trade and economical hub without taking into account the reality on the ground , of the severest sanctions and impacts . Do you know the meaning of being banned from the ' SWIFT ' system there ? . Of course , the Americans know everything , isn't that why you have cut imports despite the cheap oil and lucrative deals that Tehran offers ? Unless of course that the Chinese want their cargo to pass from troubled Afghanistan , that is the most logical conclusion . 

With the token presence that the Americans are planning to leave the Afghanistan , they dont need a big supply route as you are thinking , even the NDN will suffice for 5-6 thousand soldiers . They dont need an alternative for Pakistan , they already have one . How do you think the coalition survived after Pakistan shut the route ? Why would you get the Iran onboard seeing the hostility from the Arabs and Tel Aviv ? Both of which remain , at any day , more important than the stone age Afghanistan and form a significant part of the U.S foreign policy . Why did the Americans impose another sanction , just days when the new Iranian President had to be sworn in ? Signals that the hostility is going to continue , this US-Iran relations improving and India benefiting looks like a flight of fancy here , nothing more . Just a wish list , like the one in the post , which I quoted .

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## Secur

nick_indian said:


> No you don't and no you didn't. Snap back to reality. When things actually came down to blows, you were the ones who got razed every single time.



We were not the ones who mobilized and backed off three times , in a row now , were we ? Go and have a detailed look at the Op.Brasstacks , Op.Parakram and the mode after the Mumbai attack . Everyone in India cried for blood but in the end , sent a dove and Indian Army withdraw after seeing the Pakistan's response . 

Then I presume that we share no common boundary with China ?  @notorious_eagle

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## indushek

Secur said:


> Really ? Your post doesn't convey the message that you are even aware of the effects of sanctions and how worse it has affected the Persian nation . Doesn't look like it , seeing the posts envisioning Chahbahar as the future trade and economical hub without taking into account the reality on the ground , of the severest sanctions and impacts . Do you know the meaning of being banned from the ' SWIFT ' system there ? . Of course , the Americans know everything , isn't that why you have cut imports despite the cheap oil and lucrative deals that Tehran offers ? Unless of course that the Chinese want their cargo to pass from troubled Afghanistan , that is the most logical conclusion .
> 
> With the token presence that the Americans are planning to leave the Afghanistan , they dont need a big supply route as you are thinking , even the NDN will suffice for 5-6 thousand soldiers . They dont need an alternative for Pakistan , they already have one . How do you think the coalition survived after Pakistan shut the route ? Why would you get the Iran onboard seeing the hostility from the Arabs and Tel Aviv ? Both of which remain , at any day , more important than the stone age Afghanistan and form a significant part of the U.S foreign policy . Why did the Americans impose another sanction , just days when the new Iranian President had to be sworn in ? Signals that the hostility is going to continue , this US-Iran relations improving and India benefiting looks like a flight of fancy here , nothing more . Just a wish list , like the one in the post , which I quoted .



I know that Iran is hard hit for sure, but knowing about swift codes isn't that of an achievement, no the imports were cut for payment reasons.

Supply route was just one of the reasons, the token presence isn't for decoration is it? if the Americans want to leave such force here it shows they have plans for this region. The case of Iran and America is a little bit difficult but at times Americans have known to make deals with unlikely parties. My thinking is towards Chinese actually, which the Americans might be working to ofcourse this is far in future. 

I am not saying everything is a cake walk, but India has to tread this road for future brightness.

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## Secur

indushek said:


> I know that Iran is hard hit for sure, but knowing about swift codes isn't that of an achievement, no the imports were cut for payment reasons.
> 
> Supply route was just one of the reasons, the token presence isn't for decoration is it? if the Americans want to leave such force here it shows they have plans for this region. The case of Iran and America is a little bit difficult but at times Americans have known to make deals with unlikely parties. My thinking is towards Chinese actually, which the Americans might be working to ofcourse this is far in future.
> 
> I am not saying everything is a cake walk, but India has to tread this road for future brightness.



There was no bragging about knowing the SWIFT system in my post , I just made the point that there's no way to pay Iran and under sanctions , Chahbahar and Iranian economy can never reach its potential as you are thinking . I know again , why the imports were cut , because there's a limited number of things that India can send to Iran skipping sanctions , who wouldn't like to buy cheap crude oil otherwise ?

The token presence is for , according to the U.S. plan , maintaining a stable Afghanistan with a Central Govt and democracy so that attacks like 9/11 do not happen again , that can be achieved by working closely with Pakistan or Central Asia . Relations with Pakistan , have well not deteriorated to that extent that they cant be mended , Mr.Kerry wasn't in Islamabad for no reason . Russia is willing to cooperate with the U.S this time because the interests converge in the war against terrorism . I see no immediate reason why American need to please Tehran , much to the displeasure and chagrin of GCC and Israel . Though there are of course , no permanent friends or enemies in International arena , only interests and Americans even side with the Lucifer itself for its interests , but there are always a certain degree of probability and likelihood of something happening . Too far fetched the Chinese thing , since the Yanks have the assorted presence in the Pacific to make sure of that .


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## Tshering22

Great start! 

Nothing could be better.

This was an excellent way of increasing tri-lateral confidence through trade, commerce and business engagements. 

That's always the better route than handing out arms which creates more bloodshed of that which is not needed.

Thanks to Iran this happened.

While we may pretend to have cold ties with Iran now, I guess that was all for show after all.

There is definitely a lot more cooperation going on with Iranians than we know officially. 

Within a decade once the port stabilizes as a commercial point for Afghanistan, Afghan-India trade will have already reached in billions.

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