# Incredible ancient Hindu sculpture architecture and monuments



## Suriya

_Do you believe this peace of art was made 1000 years ago purely by hand tools ?_
_Intricately carved column of Ancient somnathpura temple karnataka_







2. _The hidden treasure of Bharat! Built over a 1000 yrs ago in the Abhaneri village of Rajasthan. About 64 ft deep and has 3,500 narrow steps arranged in perfect symmetry, the Chand Baori stepwell is one of the largest stepwells in the World & also one of the most beautiful ones. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328602987183345665_

3. 
_This 1000 Yrs old Varaha Avatar is from the “Dasavatara Temple”, Badoh, Vidisha, Madhya Pradesh. ( Now at Gujri Mahal, Gwalior)_







4. _The Stone Chariot' Hampi, karnataka _






5. Hoysaleshwara temple, Halebidu, Karnataka. 12th century.







6. * The Kailasha Temple in Ellora, Symbolizes Mount Kailash : Largest Monolithic Structure of the world & here stands wonders of the wonders. Entire temple was cut out from solid basalt bedrock from the top to bottom! Will in future be another masterpiece like this !? 







7. Located on the banks of Saraswati river, Rani ki Vav is a stepwell in the town of Patan, Gujarat. *








8. _I'm Ancient and will always be an ancient, till my last breath

Elaborately Carved Hoysala Shrines of Beluru - Halebidu _




9. _ This is wonderful Dharmrajeshwar cave temple in Mandsaur, M.P. 
A brilliant example of Indian rock-cut architecture, carved out of the solid natural rock. _




10. _ Can you realize that eternal Smile , But is it easy to bring that smile on one of the hardest stone “Granite” +1000 years ago ??

But our Ancients did it !! 


Arulmigu Peruvudaiyar Temple, Gangaikonda Cholapuram. _

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## Suriya

11. _This 800 Yrs old stunning "Gajasura Samhara Murti" is from Gyaraspur, Vidisha, Madhya Bharath. 
Now stationed at Archaeological Museum, Gujri Mahal, Gwalior. _

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## Daghalodi

Nice!

Thanks for Sharing

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## Suriya

12. Just imagine friends, how magnificent it was 900 years before.
_ 

Kiradu temples in the Barmer district of Rajasthan. _










13.




14.

_Modhera Sun Temple, Gujrat _

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## tman786

Designs look hellish to me


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## Suriya

15. _Its seems like Carving Masterpiece on a Stone was as easy as a simple hobby to our ancestors 


God Visnu lying in serene and calm river Tungabhadra in Hampi , carved out on stone_




16. _Veera Narayana temple The Hoysala gem of Belavadi _

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## FlashGordon

These things are built only when you reach a level of prosperity ..

When you live to survive another day, creativity goes for a toss..

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## Suriya

17. _Prambanan Temple, Indonesia._

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## fitpOsitive

South rocks in arts, in science.


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## Suriya

18. 

_Hazara Rama Temple , Hampi_

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## Salza

amazing architecture . it might had took many years to build for even finishing one such carved pillar

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## RPK

*Srirangam Temple-Ayaramkaal Mandapam*

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## Suriya

fitpOsitive said:


> South rocks in arts, in science.


_Many such magnificent existed in the North too but got demolished.
Sun Temple of Multan was the biggest temple at that time made of wholly marble stone was destroyed by new Ismaili rulers in the late 10th century. _



19.


_khajuraho temple, Madhya Pradesh_




20

*Chennakeshava Temple, Belur*

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## fitpOsitive

Suriya said:


> _Many such magnificent existed in the North too but got demolished.
> Sun Temple of Multan was the biggest temple at that time made of wholly marble stone was destroyed by new Ismaili rulers in the late 10th century. _
> 
> 
> 
> 19.
> 
> 
> _khajuraho temple, Madhya Pradesh_
> View attachment 688751
> 
> 20
> 
> *Chennakeshava Temple, Belur*
> 
> View attachment 688752


Are you guys building something like that nowadays?


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## Suriya

21.

_Ellora caves, kailasa temple _






fitpOsitive said:


> Are you guys building something like that nowadays?


I don't think knowledge of ancient art and architecture exist today.
We may built another beautiful temple today e,g a new one at Ayodhya but I don't think it could match artistic intricacies of the old era.

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## Maarkhoor

Suriya said:


> 21.
> 
> _Ellora caves, kailasa temple _
> View attachment 688753


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## Suriya

22. 80 tonnes of Carved Granite moved high up 216 ft, with Zero Degree Inclination With a weight of 130,000 tons Survived 6 major Earthquake... 



_Brihadeshwara Temple is one of the famous Shiva temples in India. It is located in Thanjavur in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu. _

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## Maarkhoor



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## Suriya

Salza said:


> amazing architecture . it might had took many years to build for even finishing one such carved pillar




23. _Look at this amazing 1000 year old "Dwar" of the Chennakesava Mandir 

Looking at the intricate work one can realize why this whole marvel took 103 years to build and spanned 3 generations. _

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## Maarkhoor

Suriya said:


> 23. _Look at this amazing 1000 year old "Dwar" of the Chennakesava Mandir
> 
> Looking at the intricate work one can realize why this whole marvel took 103 years to build and spanned 3 generations. _
> 
> 
> View attachment 688758


By looking at the statue it confirm that in ancient India before Muslim arrival they are not wearing proper cloths especially women.

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## Suriya

Maarkhoor said:


>


Maarkhoor, 

_if you are underage, you shouldn't be watching these sexually explicate sculptures, it may affect mind and body and you may suffer from nightfall that would damage your health._

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## Indus Pakistan

Absolutely amazing architecture and art. I would love to see these. I also appreciate that these are real "Indian" heritage which is to be applauded. All too often Indian's use Pakistan's heritage to sing songs. But all this is indeed Indian and Indians should be proud. And thanks for sharing.

Ps. I hope people look at some of these *exquisite* pieces of art as high art and not cheap p*orn. Although I suspect uncltured minds will probably do that.

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## Suriya

24.

_Ranganathaswamy Temple, Srirangam, Tamilnadu_

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## Maarkhoor

Suriya said:


> Maarkhoor,
> 
> _if you are underage, you shouldn't be watching these sexually explicate sculptures, it may affect mind and body and you may suffer from nightfall that would damage your health._

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## Suriya

25.

Friends, plz zoom in & see the details.

•Realistic Ropes!
•Her left hand inside the ropes of the drum.
•Fine details of jewellery.
And don’t forget, these magnificent architectures r all sculptured on stone! The

_Mardala: Drummer from ChennaKeshava Temple, Belur, Karnataka._


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## Indus Pakistan

Maarkhoor said:


> proper cloths especially women.


Their religion, their culture, their cloths.

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## Taimur Khurram

The attention to detail is very impressive

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## Suriya

Indus Pakistan said:


> Their religion, their culture, their cloths.


 _And their geographic area and climate._

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## W.11

Maarkhoor said:


> By looking at the statue it confirm that in ancient India before Muslim arrival they are not wearing proper cloths especially women.



There are many representations of clothed females as well. Jahangir's wife nur jahan was portrayed as a transparent cloth wearing female which exposed her boobs






regards

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## Indus Pakistan

Taimur Khurram said:


> The attention to detail is very impressive


Agreed. Use of stone, symmetry and the expression of human form in various poses are evoctive but exquisite in taste. The scale is also amazing.

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## Salza

Suriya said:


> 23. _Look at this amazing 1000 year old "Dwar" of the Chennakesava Mandir
> 
> Looking at the intricate work one can realize why this whole marvel took 103 years to build and spanned 3 generations. _
> 
> 
> View attachment 688758



btw what is inside these temples. heard that hindus, over the years/centuries are depositing gold in them

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## Suriya

26. _The Kanchi Kailasanathar temple is the oldest structure in Kanchipuram. Located in Tamil Nadu, India, it is a Hindu temple in the Tamil architectural style._

Built: 685-705AD

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## newb3e

its amazing how ancient folks build such amazing structures without modern machines!

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## RPK

Suriya said:


> Brihadeshwara Temple


Peruvudaiyar temple


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## SecularNationalist

Stunning and unbelievable architecture makes me think we achieved progress in other things overtime but when certainly in the field of architecture and civil engineering the quality got deteriorated.
Even in today's age of computers we cannot measure and construct those designs with that much accuracy and clarity. They were some super human beings.
Massive respect for them 🙏

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## Suriya

Salza said:


> btw what is inside these temples. heard that hindus, over the years/centuries are depositing gold in them


Not deposited. Temples weren't treasury vaults of kings.

_Yes, temples were hugely rich from all kinds of offerings ranging from ornaments and land patches given in the name of temple deity from common man to rich and elite including visiting Kings from other kingdoms._

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## SecularNationalist

Indus Pakistan said:


> Absolutely amazing architecture and art. I would love to see these. I also appreciate that these are real "Indian" heritage which is to be applauded. All too often Indian's use Pakistan's heritage to sing songs. But all this is indeed Indian and Indians should be proud. And thanks for sharing.
> 
> Ps. I hope people look at some of these *exquisite* pieces of art as high art and not cheap p*orn. Although I suspect uncltured minds will probably do that.


And I think that should make us feel proud as well.
We have our differences in modern age and later our ancestors have chosen a different path but at some point those who built that amazing architecture were also our ancestors.
We share a common history.

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## Baby Leone

nice and hope these are preserved by indian govt and also try to preserve Islamic architects if any left from Hindu extremists.


fitpOsitive said:


> Are you guys building something like that nowadays?


No, they are busy in destroying everything non hindu.


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## Saho

Was it always visible or has it been discovered recently in the last 100 years?


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## RPK

https://www.trawell.in/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Tiruvannamalai.jpg



Arunachaleswar Temple

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## Suriya

SecularNationalist said:


> Stunning and unbelievable architecture makes me think we achieved progress in other things overtime but when certainly in the field of architecture and civil engineering the quality got deteriorated.
> Even in today's age of computers we cannot measure and construct those designs with that much accuracy and clarity. They were some super human beings.
> Massive respect for them 🙏


27.

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## Maarkhoor

Suriya said:


> 27.


At that time west was busy in making universities and inventing new things while Indians were busy wasting resources and time to build semi nude to nude sculptures....That is why they enslaved by invaders and ruled over them for centuries.


Suriya said:


> Maarkhoor,
> 
> _if you are underage, you shouldn't be watching these sexually explicate sculptures, it may affect mind and body and you may suffer from nightfall that would damage your health._


Nightfall is a healthy natural phenomena does not put bad effects on health but tell me one thing while suggesting me if I am underage I should avoid to look at nude idols of Hindus then why your elder made them on the walls of Temples ? Where women and children also visiting? Because at that time people in that era used to wear and practice such activities especially Pujarees....May these sculptures help Pandits to seduce women.

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## Indus Pakistan

SecularNationalist said:


> amazing architecture were also *our* ancestors.


No.



SecularNationalist said:


> We share a common history.


Yes and no. Yes, we share common history with all humanity.

Just because we should appreciate Indian art should not be used to now sing the "we be same" songs please. I have absolutely no ancestry with a Bihari, Madya Pradeshi, a Tamil a Bengali beyond the common human link we all have.

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## SuvarnaTeja

Saho said:


> Was it always visible or has it been discovered recently in the last 100 years?



In the past many of these temples have been used as normal temples but now many of these temples were taken over by archaeological survey of India to preserve them.
Nandi at Hoysaleswara Temple, Halebid






Lord Shiva at at Hoysaleswara Temple, Halebid








Hoysaleswara Temple, Halebid

















Chennakesava Temple, Belur 


























Monolith Nandi and Shiva at Lepakshi 
http://traveltwosome.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/2040743284_68c7df06ab_o.jpg

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## Baibars_1260

For our education: Would you post images of the Khajuraho temple carvings also? The ones with domestic animals are particularly well done.

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## Black.Mamba

Thank you for the post. The intricacy, scale, form, proportions are all stunning, it makes me wonder instead of improving on the already acquired skills how come we lost it all. Such work might be possible now with CAD but doing it with hand with limited tools and techniques is an achievement in its own.

No pun intended: Are these sites exclusive for religious purpose or open to non-white/muslim tourists as well?

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## Baibars_1260

Black.Mamba said:


> Thank you for the post. The intricacy, scale, form, proportions are all stunning, it makes me wonder instead of improving on the already acquired skills how come we lost it all. Such work might be possible now with CAD but doing it with hand with limited tools and techniques is an achievement in its own.
> 
> No pun intended: Are these sites exclusive for religious purpose or open to non-white/muslim tourists as well?


Most are open to tourists but some are not. A certain temple in Odisha ( and quite a few others) has a notice:
"Dogs and Muslims not allowed "
I managed to sneak in though with a vertical vermillion streak on my forehead.


Salza said:


> btw what is inside these temples. heard that hindus, over the years/centuries are depositing gold in them


Have been to Tirupati and the temple complex has some ancillary structures which house ...
Forum rules do not permit further information.

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## Black.Mamba

Baibars_1260 said:


> Most are open to tourists but some are not. A certain temple in Odisha ( and quite a few others) has a notice:
> "Dogs and Muslims not allowed "
> I managed to sneak in though with a vertical vermillion streak on my forehead.
> 
> Have been to Tirupati and the temple complex has some ancillary structures which house ...
> Forum rules do not permit further information.


Okay good to know. I will order this shirt before visiting, it should give me a free pass

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## Suriya

_Virupaksha Temple, Hampi_







_Ranakpur Chaturmukha Temple, Rajastan_





_The 2nd-longest continuous wall on the Planet, surrounds the fort of Kumbhalgarh that contains 360 temples. Stretches over a distance of 38km, 15m wide which is enough for 8 horses to walk abreast. Built in the 15th century by Rana Kumbha. 




_



KUMBHALGARH FORT, Rajasthan : The Birthplace of Mewar’s legendary king Maharana Pratap. 

Located on the westerly range of Aravalli Hills, in the Rajsamand district near Udaipur, Rajasthan. The Fort is a UNESCO World Heritage Site included in Hill Forts of Rajasthan.

_



_


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## Baibars_1260

> No pun intended: Are these sites exclusive for religious purpose or open to non-white/muslim tourists as well?


There are functional temples and those that are semi-functional.
The most important of the functional temples are the "Dhaams" ( rhymes with the wor "palm") . There are four Dhaams in India ( Hindu guests please correct me if I am wrong ). These Dhaams attract the most number of worshippers and are the richest in terms of donations logging Rs.6 -10 billion a year in cash not including the gold and silver donations which are not valued in the audit.
The managements are through Muths ( مٹھ) or Trusts headed by a temple committee.
Temples vary widely in style and architecture and southern and northern temples have their own distinct style.
The northern temples are conservative with images or idols restricted to the deities , whereas the Southern and Western temples are better decorated with carvings of different entities as such as apsaras etc. A personal choice but I found the Southern and Western temples far more interesting ( particularly Ajanta and Ellora and the Khajuraho complexes).
The functional temples have 24 -7 hours if worship though Tuesdays and at a few places Sundays are special.
Each temple has its own ritual and norms for example the temple at Tirupati requires the shaving off all hair from the body and head of both males and females, ( there is another extended optional ritual reserved for male devotees that we shall not discuss...). Similarly the Kali Temple in Kolkata has the sacrifice of a goat ( beheaded with a cleaver) by the priest.The Kali temple also has an optional extended ritual. The Jagganath Temple in Puri, the Ayappa Temple in Kerala have their own rituals also. It is difficult for Muslims to understand this because our way of worship is almost universal ( with slight variations on the _ mislaks_
Most temples have a crowd of mendicants and beggars in the approaches ( though NOT within the temples). Some of the physical deformities of the beggars would challenge orthopedic specialists
So far as the worship is concerned my own preference is for the Northern Temples which are clean, well lit, and the _ aarti _ Bhajans are in Hindi which is easier to understand.
Most Southern and Western temples are located around artificial bodies of water ( a tank or pond) according to the _Vastu_ principals , ( the Indian equivalent of _Feng Shui_ ) . Northern temples are more commonly found on the banks of rivers, lakes, and streams and on mountain tops.
There are variations in the idols of the deities. A Lord Shiva temple in the North is standard with an angular pyramid shaped tower often adorned with carvings of cobras. The matching Nataraj temple in Southern India would be very different with a trapezoidal tower adorned with a myriad carvings. In a similar way the temple to Lord Vishnu in the North is very different from his counterpart Balaji in the south.


Black.Mamba said:


> Okay good to know. I will order this shirt before visiting, it should give me a free pass
> View attachment 688874


Don't feel bad about this .
A number of temples are not open to Dalits either.

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## Crixus

Raja Raja Chola may be one of the best Indian administrators .......... I heard somewhere they used elephants to clean the inside of the temple to throw water using their trunks 



Suriya said:


> 22. 80 tonnes of Carved Granite moved high up 216 ft, with Zero Degree Inclination With a weight of 130,000 tons Survived 6 major Earthquake...
> 
> 
> 
> _Brihadeshwara Temple is one of the famous Shiva temples in India. It is located in Thanjavur in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu. _
> View attachment 688755


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## Baibars_1260

Crixus said:


> Raja Raja Chola may be one of the best Indian administrators .......... I heard somewhere they used elephants to clean the inside of the temple to throw water using their trunks


Not really. Elephants only have a few liters of water in their trunks. You would need a lot of elephants and water from the elephants trunk is not clean as it is full of nasal bacteria. Moreover for an unknown reason male elephants frequently deposit dung when spraying, a kind of marking their territory,
The usual method of raising water into the temples was by a _ latha_ ( لاٹھا) , a version of the _ shadoof _ or by a waterwheel. which flooded the water through side channels at the base of the walls, and temple attendants would dip hemp fiber brush swabs ( _sisal _ fibre bundle tied on end with a rope) to sweep the floor. This was done by upper caste _ karasewaks _ ( کارسیوک ) since lower caste Hindus were usually not allowed in the temple premises.
Today a hose and pump is used.

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## Crixus

There were 1000 elephants employed for the building process of the Brihadsvara temple.......I said to remove the dirt from the main dome of the temple they used the elephants 



https://www.fodors.com/world/asia/india/experiences/news/the-myths-legends-and-truths-of-indias-most-fascinating-temple




Baibars_1260 said:


> Not really. Elephants only have a few liters of water in their trunks. You would need a lot of elephants and water from the elephants trunk is not clean as it is full of nasal bacteria. Moreover for an unknown reason male elephants frequently deposit dung when spraying, a kind of marking their territory,
> The usual method of raising water into the temples was by a _ latha_ ( لاٹھا) , a version of the _ shadoof _ or by a waterwheel. which flooded the water through side channels at the base of the walls, and temple attendants would dip hemp fiber brush swabs ( _sisal _ fibre bundle tied on end with a rope) to sweep the floor. This was done by upper caste _ karasewaks _ ( کارسیوک ) since lower caste Hindus were usually not allowed in the temple premises.
> Today a hose and pump is used.


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## Baibars_1260

Black.Mamba said:


> Are these sites exclusive for religious purpose or open to non-white/muslim tourists as well?


A word of caution to Pakistanis and Muslims in general:
1. Before visiting any temple complex in India always check with the India Tourism Development Corporation ( ITDC ) if the temple is functioning and if non-Hindus are allowed. Usually non-Hindus are NOT allowed with no exceptions ; a rule that was also imposed on the Italian born wife of the Indian Prime Minister.
A non-functional temple is usually open to tourists if it is certified as a UN World Heritage Site and protected as an archeological monument by the Archeological Survey of India.
Even so when visiting _ any _ temple be sure NOT to wear your traditional clothes ( salwar kameez, sherwani) , shave off your beard if possible, and hide your _ nishan-e-sujood _ under a western style cap. The female members of your family _ must _ take off their _ hijab _ and dress preferably in a saree with a _ bindi _. Do not carry any food with you especially non-vegetarian food. Do NOT talk in Urdu, If you can talk in Punjabi or Gujarati you are OK otherwise talk in English. Attempting to talk in Hindi is likely to give you away.
Do NOT reveal your origins. These are dangerous times to be visiting India even if you are traveling on a European or North American passport. Lynch mobs do not ask for passports and being mistaken for an Indian Muslim is no fun. Ideally do not visit at all. The temples can wait till there is peace.
Have been there.


Crixus said:


> There were 1000 elephants .....I said to remove the dirt from the main dome of the temple they used the elephants


My Apologies.
I was merely responding to your quote below:

*" *_I heard somewhere they used elephants to clean the inside of the temple to throw water using their trunks" ._
Am getting dyslexic because I missed the reference in your original post.

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## FAROOQ RASHID BUTT

My Dear
Was there any threat to this magnificent building from Babri Masjid? 

Could the burnt people of Ahmedabad have been a threat to this great building? Are the unarmed civilians killed in Kashmir a threat to such Indian greatness?

By the way, the buildings built in India or Pakistan during the Mughal period are a thousand times more beautiful than such buildings in terms of architecture and beauty.

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## Indus Pakistan

Baibars_1260 said:


> These are dangerous times to be visiting India even if you are traveling on a European or North American passport. Lynch mobs do not ask for passports and being mistaken for an Indian Muslim is no fun. Ideally do not visit at all. The temples can wait till there is peace.
> Have been there.


Your joking right?

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## Baibars_1260

Maarkhoor said:


>


Their physical fitness to perform such "acrobatics" is amazing!


Indus Pakistan said:


> Your joking right?


No I am not..









Madhya Pradesh Police Apologise for Beating Lawyer, 'We Thought You Were Muslim,' They Say


Police have allegedly attempted to get lawyer Deepak Bundele to withdraw his complaint on the seemingly unprovoked beating.




thewire.in









Could some one post pictures of the Salt Range Temples of Pakistan here?


Indus Pakistan said:


> Absolutely amazing architecture and art. I would love to see these. I also appreciate that these are real "Indian" heritage which is to be applauded. All too often Indian's use Pakistan's heritage to sing songs. But all this is indeed Indian and Indians should be proud. And thanks for sharing.
> 
> Ps. I hope people look at some of these *exquisite* pieces of art as high art and not cheap p*orn. Although I suspect uncltured minds will probably do that.


Absolutely. Just remember some temple carvings ( examples in the early posts on this thread ) are NOT to be viewed by small children.

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## Black.Mamba

Baibars_1260 said:


> Even so when visiting _ any _ temple be sure NOT to wear your traditional clothes ( salwar kameez, sherwani) , shave off your beard if possible, and hide your _ nishan-e-sujood _ under a western style cap. The female members of your family _ must _ take off their _ hijab _ and dress preferably in a saree with a _ bindi _. Do not carry any food with you especially non-vegetarian food. Do NOT talk in Urdu, If you can talk in Punjabi or Gujarati you are OK otherwise talk in English. Attempting to talk in Hindi is likely to give you away.
> Do NOT reveal your origins. These are dangerous times to be visiting India even if you are traveling on a European or North American passport. Lynch mobs do not ask for passports and being mistaken for an Indian Muslim is no fun. Ideally do not visit at all. The temples can wait till there is peace.


Yes I understand that todays India is way different than that of yesterdays (sadly). I have travelled to India more than 8 times (both with friends and family) and that too on Pakistani passports, surprisingly most people (locals) always thought of us as Indian but from some other part for sure, until we use to tell them we are from Pakistan and had a very favorable and welcoming gestures. Even to a point, that the entry ticket to monuments which I believe for foreigners is to be paid in $ or equivilant INR were not charged to us, despite informing them they insisted that we pay the local price only (sweet deal for sure). I believe all this is history now, my last trip was in 2011 or 12, from the things generally evident I believe the media has played its part well and now even the locals on the streets will have a very different outlook.


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## Paul2

Maarkhoor said:


>


A horse too???

WHY?

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## SecularNationalist

Indus Pakistan said:


> No.
> 
> Yes and no. Yes, we share common history with all humanity.
> 
> Just because we should appreciate Indian art should not be used to now sing the "we be same" songs please. I have absolutely no ancestry with a Bihari, Madya Pradeshi, a Tamil a Bengali beyond the common human link we all have.


Oh really? 
Had no idea you are that much narrow minded person.


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## Baibars_1260

Paul2 said:


> A horse too???
> 
> WHY?


That's on the Khajuraho temples. Google the image.


SecularNationalist said:


> Oh really?
> Had no idea you are that much narrow minded person.


Why is it narrow minded? 
After political changes populations DO drift apart. We ARE different. Even the Indians say so.
Even with the same ethnic stock Americans are different from Europeans. Germans are different from Austrians, Swiss and Walloons. 
To appreciate architecture, music, or literature we don't have to artificially link a genetic heritage.
We can read and appreciate Shakespeare, listen to Strauss,
and appreciate the architecture of the Notre Dame de Paris without identifying ourselves as British, Germans, or French. Why do we have to artificially identify with Indians? Why even the Bangladeshis don't identify with West Bengalis as they have over the last 49 years developed their own culture.


Black.Mamba said:


> . I believe all this is history now, my last trip was in 2011 or 12, from the things generally evident I believe the media has played its part well and now even the locals on the streets will have a very different outlook.



Surprised you traveled 8 times on a Pakistani passport to India. You must have connections, because India does not grant that many visas, and I hope your police reporting was pleasant. 
Most Pakistanis do the "Mughal " Delhi Agra Sikandara Fatehpur Sikri circuit or maybe a stroll through the Charminar area slums of Hyderabad. Very few Pakistanis have heard of the Vedagiriswarar temple in Tirukalukundram ( Tamil Nadu, Kanchipuram) where two birds are supposed to fly all the way from Tibet ( Mount Kailash) every day to be fed by the temple priests. 
To get to know the " real " India you must visit these places and also have a strong stomach and visit thr Kumbh Mela and watch the Naga Sadhus jump into the river. You must stand by the cremation ghats in Benares ( Varanasi) and smell the "burning ". You must watch the aughars, the unclad sadhvis, the immersion of the idols during Durga Puja ...and Ganpati. Watch the beheading of the goats in the Kali Mandir... The devdasis dancing the Andhra Natyam.
* THAT * is India...

Something these keyboard "experts " uploading sanitized pictures can never convey to you. Nor for that matter will their Indian Muslim compatriots who try to present a "as 'Islamic' as you " face to Pakistanis..

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## Suriya

A marvel of Vedic Engineering: Sri Vidyashankara Temple, Sringeri.

12 pillars surrounds the mandapa with figures of the 12 signs of the zodiac. They are built in such a creative way, d rays of the sun fall on each pillar in the sequential order of the months of Hindu calendar!










_Gondeshwar Temple, Maharastra built in 11th and 12th century during the rule of the Seuna (Yadava) dynasty._

















_Padawali Temple , Gawlior, Madhya Pradesh is a Wonder built between 8th and 10th century_

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## undercover JIX

FAROOQ RASHID BUTT said:


> My Dear
> Was there any threat to this magnificent building from Babri Masjid?
> 
> Could the burnt people of Ahmedabad have been a threat to this great building? Are the unarmed civilians killed in Kashmir a threat to such Indian greatness?
> 
> By the way, the buildings built in India or Pakistan during the Mughal period are a thousand times more beautiful than such buildings in terms of architecture and beauty.



In Hindu Rashtra, religion is the criteria which sets standards.


Paul2 said:


> A horse too???
> 
> WHY?


Horse has special significance in Hinduism, some rituals performed with horses dead and alive by Goddess etc. are documented in ancient scripture, 
used for sacrifices as well in vedic times.

This is not the thread to have this discussion, so please do your own research.

Just enjoy the pics.


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## Suriya

_Virupaksha Temple, Hampi_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329039174813401089


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## Baibars_1260

undercover JIX said:


> In Hindu Rashtra, religion is the criteria which sets standards.


Of course. Sets all standards.


> Horse has special significance in Hinduism, some rituals performed with horses dead and alive by Goddess etc. are documented in ancient scripture,
> used for sacrifices as well in vedic times.
> This is not the thread to have this discussion, so please do your own research.
> Just enjoy the pics.


Since this thread is on temple pictures could some one post the
pictures from the Khajuraho temples ?
Also would like to see the pictures from the Salt Range in Pakistan.


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## paritosh

Taimur Khurram said:


> The attention to detail is very impressive




Attention to detail and a pursuit for perfection are aspects that define the success of a nation.
These aspects now don't exist in India-Pakistan.
However, there was a time when the goods we used to produce were of the highest quality, the technology that we honed was unparalleled.
Don't think the cultural ethos exists anymore.


Baibars_1260 said:


> Most are open to tourists but some are not. A certain temple in Odisha ( and quite a few others) has a notice:
> "Dogs and Muslims not allowed "


Bull.
I am assuming people would fact-check ridiculous claims such as this and not succumb to them.



Baibars_1260 said:


> A word of caution to Pakistanis and Muslims in general:
> 1. Before visiting any temple complex in India always check with the India Tourism Development Corporation ( ITDC ) if the temple is functioning and if non-Hindus are allowed. Usually non-Hindus are NOT allowed with no exceptions ; a rule that was also imposed on the Italian born wife of the Indian Prime Minister.
> A non-functional temple is usually open to tourists if it is certified as a UN World Heritage Site and protected as an archeological monument by the Archeological Survey of India.
> Even so when visiting _ any _ temple be sure NOT to wear your traditional clothes ( salwar kameez, sherwani) , shave off your beard if possible, and hide your _ nishan-e-sujood _ under a western style cap. The female members of your family _ must _ take off their _ hijab _ and dress preferably in a saree with a _ bindi _. Do not carry any food with you especially non-vegetarian food. Do NOT talk in Urdu, If you can talk in Punjabi or Gujarati you are OK otherwise talk in English. Attempting to talk in Hindi is likely to give you away.
> Do NOT reveal your origins. These are dangerous times to be visiting India even if you are traveling on a European or North American passport. Lynch mobs do not ask for passports and being mistaken for an Indian Muslim is no fun. Ideally do not visit at all. The temples can wait till there is peace.
> Have been there.


Mate can you share some proof of this? Muslim Indian tourists visit Indian temples and post pics, if you want you can find a million of them on the internet.
There are a couple of notoriously orthodox temples, like the Odisha temple you mentioned in one of your posts, but there practices are not the norm.


Black.Mamba said:


> Yes I understand that todays India is way different than that of yesterdays (sadly). I have travelled to India more than 8 times (both with friends and family) and that too on Pakistani passports, surprisingly most people (locals) always thought of us as Indian but from some other part for sure, until we use to tell them we are from Pakistan and had a very favorable and welcoming gestures. Even to a point, that the entry ticket to monuments which I believe for foreigners is to be paid in $ or equivilant INR were not charged to us, despite informing them they insisted that we pay the local price only (sweet deal for sure). I believe all this is history now, my last trip was in 2011 or 12, from the things generally evident I believe the media has played its part well and now even the locals on the streets will have a very different outlook.


Hence you now have enough evidence to take most of the allegations made against Indian/Indians with a pinch of salt.
I am not denying that after Modi, certain idiots have been empowered, but if you were to visit India or I to Pakistan, both of us would be treated with hospitality.

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## Baibars_1260

Suriya said:


> A marvel of Vedic Engineering: Sri Vidyashankara Temple, Sringeri.
> 
> 12 pillars surrounds the mandapa with figures of the 12 signs of the zodiac. They are built in such a creative way, d rays of the sun fall on each pillar in the sequential order of the months of Hindu calendar!
> View attachment 688970
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Gondeshwar Temple, Maharastra built in 11th and 12th century during the rule of the Seuna (Yadava) dynasty._
> 
> View attachment 688966
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 688967
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Padawali Temple , Gawlior, Madhya Pradesh is a Wonder built between 8th and 10th century_
> 
> View attachment 688968




Funny the Vedic era engineers and artisans never learnt the following in architecture and building:

1. The concept of the self supporting arch which made doorways, windows and openings stronger and lighter. There is no Sanskrit word for arch. The Hindi ( Urdu ) word is " Mehrab" ( محراب) is of Arab origin. 
2. Domes which keeps the ceiling high and cool in the hot summer and functions as an acoustic echo chamber that amplifies the human voice.
3. Domes are stronger and lighter than stone ceilings and are waterproof as the water rolls off the curved surfaces.
4. Domes are windproof as the wind from any direction is diverted over the aerodynamic curved surfaces imposing little load.
There is no Sanskrit word for Dome.
The Hindi ( Urdu) word is "Gumbad" ( گُمبد). 
5. Ceramics: The Vedic era artisans did not know the art of ceramics or ceramic tiles which was used to line the domes and exterior surfaces, making a completely corrosion free long lasting colored surface. There is no Sanskrit word for ceramics. The Hindi ( Urdu)!word "chini" ( چینی) is of Arab origin from the word " seeni " ( سینی) meaning Chinese.,
4. Glass: Vedic era artisans never mastered the art of 
making glass. Either glass panes, glass lamps, drinking glasses, chandeliers, 
The Urdu words, شیشا, ساغر ، شماع have no Sanskrit equivalents.
There is a recent Hindi word invented which is "Kanch" ( کانچ). 
6. Fountains :
Vedic engineers never learnt hydraulics and art of raising water pressure using rams. Which is why no Vedic building has fountains.
There is no Sanskrit word for fountain: The Hindi ( Urdu) word is " favara" ( فوارا ) . 
Like wise there is no Sanskrit word for table, chair , bed, mattress, mirror, stirrup, 
reins, canon, musket (or gun, ) , gunpowder, sword, catapult, spit ( kababs) , grape juice wine, sherbet, etc. Hindi wordsmiths have not invented Sanskrit equivalents yet. A 1000 year legacy is difficult to remove.

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## Bossman

Thank you for depicting Hindu culture. To add to it please add some pictures of statues depicting beastie ality from the Kama Sutra temple i .e. Intercourse between human and animals.

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## Baibars_1260

Bossman said:


> Thank you for depicting Hindu culture. To add to it please add some pictures of statues depicting beastie ality from the Kama Sutra temple i .e. Intercourse between human and animals.


Can't be shown here due to forum rules, but these can easily be found through Pinterest, Flicker, and Google images if a search is made for "Khajuraho temples". 
The Khajuraho temples, and some temples in Rajasthan. have excellent carvings depicting the rituals


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## xeuss

Baibars_1260 said:


> A word of caution to Pakistanis and Muslims in general:
> 1. Before visiting any temple complex in India always check with the India Tourism Development Corporation ( ITDC ) if the temple is functioning and if non-Hindus are allowed. Usually non-Hindus are NOT allowed with no exceptions ; a rule that was also imposed on the Italian born wife of the Indian Prime Minister.
> A non-functional temple is usually open to tourists if it is certified as a UN World Heritage Site and protected as an archeological monument by the Archeological Survey of India.
> Even so when visiting _ any _ temple be sure NOT to wear your traditional clothes ( salwar kameez, sherwani) , shave off your beard if possible, and hide your _ nishan-e-sujood _ under a western style cap. The female members of your family _ must _ take off their _ hijab _ and dress preferably in a saree with a _ bindi _. Do not carry any food with you especially non-vegetarian food. Do NOT talk in Urdu, If you can talk in Punjabi or Gujarati you are OK otherwise talk in English. Attempting to talk in Hindi is likely to give you away.
> Do NOT reveal your origins. These are dangerous times to be visiting India even if you are traveling on a European or North American passport. Lynch mobs do not ask for passports and being mistaken for an Indian Muslim is no fun. Ideally do not visit at all. The temples can wait till there is peace.
> Have been there.



Not sure if you are relating from personal experience, but that has not been my experience at all. 

As a Muslim, I have never been stopped while entering a temple or had to hide my Muslim identity for the same. None of my family members have experienced anything different.

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## Baibars_1260

> paritosh, post: 1280
> Bull.
> I am assuming people would fact-check ridiculous claims such as this and not succumb to them.


First you say it is ridiculous and then admit that a famous temple in Odisha amongst others has such norms. Please read my post when I said quite a few of the functional temples have such norms,


> Mate can you share some proof of this? Muslim Indian tourists visit Indian temples and post pics, if you want you can find a million of them on the internet.


Muslim Indian tourists are a rare phenomenon in functional Hindu temples. The internal tourist traffic is as communally divided as everything else in India. The segregated and isolated Indian Muslims from the slums and ghettos today are far more religious than their secular urban elite ( most of whom have largely fled the country). They have very little interest in visiting temples with idols, an act that would in their opinion, infringe a basic tenet of their faith. Those few secular Muslims who do visit run the risk of getting lynched or being speared by a Sadhu's _ trishul _
The era of _ A Passage to India _ is over. There are no more Dr. Azis's in India and leftist Indian Muslims like Safdar Hashmi are pushing daisies from their graves.


> There are a couple of notoriously orthodox temples, like the Odisha temple you mentioned in one of your posts, but there practices are not the norm.


Please don't be apologetic. You just confirmed what I already wrote. Not many functional Hindu temples in India allow entry to non-Hindus or for that matter Dalits . The Italian born Catholic wife of a former Indian prime minister was no exception.

*For the record I am all for open access to all faiths to visit all houses of worship and I condemn the ban on Hindus, from visiting the Kaaba in Mecca and the Masjid Nabawi in Medina. Especially after the norms have been somewhat relaxed for the " People of the Book " *


> Hence you now have enough evidence to take most of the allegations made against Indian/Indians with a pinch of salt.
> I am not denying that after Modi, certain idiots have been empowered, but if you were to visit India or I to Pakistan, both of us would be treated with hospitality.


I just posted a link to a video where a Hindu with a beard was beaten up by the Madhya Pradesh police because they thought he was a Muslim, This is not an isolated incident, Muslims have been forcibly shaven and tonsured, lynched and thrown out of trains.
No tourists from any Muslim majority countries visit Hindu temples especially the functional ones. As a clean shaven Pakistani national in secular clothing with no female companions, I was able to get by, especially since my last name is a generic Punjabi Jat name.
In those days India's famous Aadhar card ( India's equivalent of the (شناختی کارڈ ) was not in use. I doubt if I will ever visit these temples again. I did visit the Pashupati Nath temple in Nepal but then being a Pakistani in Nepal and being a Pakistani in India are two very different scenarios, I rest my case.


xeuss said:


> Not sure if you are relating from personal experience, but that has not been my experience at all.
> 
> As a Muslim, I have never been stopped while entering a temple or had to hide my Muslim identity for the same. None of my family members have experienced anything different.


I hate to say this to you, that you are lying ; but I understand and sympathize with your reason for saying so. I doubt if you wrote your name in the visitor's book or showed your identity ( Aadhar) card and I assume you are clean shaven ( or if female do not wear a hijab. ). 
No Indian Muslim will admit his or her plight in _any _ Pakistani forum for fear of further stigmatization of the community,
You are already branded as 5th columnists, _ Desh Drohi _ , " Termites" ... and I could write all the epithets from the Times of India comments column, addressing the minor surgical procedure Muslim males undergo early in life. But there is no use...
I sympathize with your plight and am grateful for the sacrifices endured by your previous generation that gave us our lands.
I also wish you courage in coping with the situation today and I hope the dwindling secularists in the majority community will stand by you, 
I don't know if train ticket reservations are still made under Hindu names. Probably not given the fact that the ubiquitous Aadhaar card is required. The last protection from being killed in a communal targeting of Muslim passengers is now gone.

_Would strongly recommend Pakistanis to watch the Indian movie " Mr. & Mrs. Iyer "_


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## Cliftonite

Baibars_1260 said:


> First you say it is ridiculous and then admit that a famous temple in Odisha amongst others has such norms. Please read my post when I said quite a few of the functional temples have such norms,
> 
> Muslim Indian tourists are a rare phenomenon in functional Hindu temples. The internal tourist traffic is as communally divided as everything else in India. The segregated and isolated Indian Muslims from the slums and ghettos today are far more religious than their secular urban elite ( most of whom have largely fled the country). They have very little interest in visiting temples with idols, an act that would in their opinion, infringe a basic tenet of their faith. Those few secular Muslims who do visit run the risk of getting lynched or being speared by a Sadhu's _ trishul _
> The era of _ A Passage to India _ is over. There are no more Dr. Azis's in India and leftist Indian Muslims like Safdar Hashmi are pushing daisies from their graves.
> 
> Please don't be apologetic. You just confirmed what I already wrote. Not many functional Hindu temples in India allow entry to non-Hindus or for that matter Dalits . The Italian born Catholic wife of a former Indian prime minister was no exception.
> 
> *For the record I am all for open access to all faiths to visit all houses of worship and I condemn the ban on Hindus, from visiting the Kaaba in Mecca and the Masjid Nabawi in Medina. Especially after the norms have been somewhat relaxed for the " People of the Book " *
> 
> I just posted a link to a video where a Hindu with a beard was beaten up by the Madhya Pradesh police because they thought he was a Muslim, This is not an isolated incident, Muslims have been forcibly shaven and tonsured, lynched and thrown out of trains.
> No tourists from any Muslim majority countries visit Hindu temples especially the functional ones. As a clean shaven Pakistani national in secular clothing with no female companions, I was able to get by, especially since my last name is a generic Punjabi Jat name.
> In those days India's famous Aadhar card ( India's equivalent of the (شناختی کارڈ ) was not in use. I doubt if I will ever visit these temples again. I did visit the Pashupati Nath temple in Nepal but then being a Pakistani in Nepal and being a Pakistani in India are two very different scenarios, I rest my case.
> 
> I hate to say this to you, that you are lying ; but I understand and sympathize with your reason for saying so. I doubt if you wrote your name in the visitor's book or showed your identity ( Aadhar) card and I assume you are clean shaven ( or if female do not wear a hijab. ).
> No Indian Muslim will admit his or her plight in _any _ Pakistani forum for fear of further stigmatization of the community,
> You are already branded as 5th columnists, _ Desh Drohi _ , " Termites" ... and I could write all the epithets from the Times of India comments column, addressing the minor surgical procedure Muslim males undergo early in life. But there is no use...
> I sympathize with your plight and am grateful for the sacrifices endured by your previous generation that gave us our lands.
> I also wish you courage in coping with the situation today and I hope the dwindling secularists in the majority community will stand by you,
> I don't know if train ticket reservations are still made under Hindu names. Probably not given the fact that the ubiquitous Aadhaar card is required. The last protection from being killed in a communal targeting of Muslim passengers is now gone.
> 
> _Would strongly recommend Pakistanis to watch the Indian movie " Mr. & Mrs. Iyer "_


Why do you have an Indian flag though?

India's Muslim population is simply too large for a genocide or a massive ghar wapsi. As a Muhajir looking over from the other side, I am equally invested in the plight of Indian Muslims as well.

Some states of India are already at 30-35% Muslim population. That's too much to whisk away like Rohingyas, they are firmly entrenched within their state's demographics. Just to put things into perspective, WB and West UP have more Muslims than Syria, Kazakhstan, Malaysia or Afghanistan. And Indian Muslims are too spread out for the Hindu nationalists to ever completely wipe them out. 

It's definitely going to be hard for the Indian Muslims for the next 30-50 years. But population growth and demographics are going to tilt things in their favor, especially in Assam and WB. And the world will not sit by if there is a massacre of 250 million people.

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## xeuss

Baibars_1260 said:


> I hate to say this to you, that you are lying ; but I understand and sympathize with your reason for saying so. I doubt if you wrote your name in the visitor's book or showed your identity ( Aadhar) card and I assume you are clean shaven ( or if female do not wear a hijab. ).
> No Indian Muslim will admit his or her plight in _any _ Pakistani forum for fear of further stigmatization of the community,
> You are already branded as 5th columnists, _ Desh Drohi _ , " Termites" ... and I could write all the epithets from the Times of India comments column, addressing the minor surgical procedure Muslim males undergo early in life. But there is no use...
> I sympathize with your plight and am grateful for the sacrifices endured by your previous generation that gave us our lands.
> I also wish you courage in coping with the situation today and I hope the dwindling secularists in the majority community will stand by you,
> I don't know if train ticket reservations are still made under Hindu names. Probably not given the fact that the ubiquitous Aadhaar card is required. The last protection from being killed in a communal targeting of Muslim passengers is now gone.
> 
> _Would strongly recommend Pakistanis to watch the Indian movie " Mr. & Mrs. Iyer "_



I don't need to lie. I have simply stated my personal experience. It's not like we visit temples often. But when we do (for tourism purposes), we never had a problem and no one in my family ever related any experience otherwise. No one ever fills out a visitor book. I do not even know where I would find one. My last visit to a temple was a couple of years ago to the Monkey temple in Jaipur. I wasn't particularly impressed. Just too many monkeys running around. Our fear was being attacked by the monkeys than any Hindu.

Other than that, there is a temple every two steps in India and hard to avoid one. No one ever visits those

Regarding train tickets. Your information is outdated. Yes there was a time, mostly in the 90s, when Muslims would use a different name for a reservation, but that was when reservation lists were posted on the side of the bogie. This was prevalent mostly when travelling to places in East UP. Wasn't known to be practiced in Mumbai or the south. But even in those circumstances, there were Muslims with the traditional kurta-pyjama and burqa who would make the journey. Nowadays, there is no need to falsify names, because tickets are either a code on your mobile phone or require a corresponding ID. 

My own personal experience is related here: 








‘Killed 2 Muslims, Threw Them in Drain’: Riot-Accused on WhatsApp


Everything he mentions can be debated you are basically bringing a decades old letter to somehow defend your societys filth. Well I guess you people are rightly put in your place by people like soumitra and sanghi bhakt gang. I hope and pray you society remains on the same path. Some of the...



defence.pk


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## Baibars_1260

Cliftonite said:


> Why do you have an Indian flag though?


.
Don't have one.Kindly explain.


> India's Muslim population is simply too large for a genocide or a massive ghar wapsi. As a Muhajir looking over from the other side, I am equally invested in the plight of Indian Muslims as well.


A large population not rooted in a geographical territory is easily exterminated or assimilated. There was a large Buddhist population in India with even a ruling Buddhist Emperor ( Ashoka ). That didn't stop Hindus from reducing Buddhism to an insignificant fringe religion in India.


> Some states of India are already at 30-35% Muslim population. That's too much to whisk away like Rohingyas, they are firmly entrenched within their state's demographics. Just to put things into perspective, WB and West UP have more Muslims than Syria, Kazakhstan, Malaysia or Afghanistan. And Indian Muslims are too spread out for the Hindu nationalists to ever completely wipe them out.



Disagree. Numbers mean little when a population is politically disenfranchised and economically reduced to hunger and starvation and above all defenseless and unable to protect itself from massacre and rape. A good example is the case of the Central African Republic where Muslims constituting 35% of the population have been almost completely eliminated. In Bosnia the Muslims were in a majority and have been reduced through massacres and expulsions to 42% of the population and still declining through migration. Muslims have vanished from Macedonia. So many Chechens have been eliminated that Russia will not even allow a census in the region. The earlier examples of Christians backed cleansing of Andalusian Muslims in Spain and the elimination of 80% of the Muslim population ( in majority) in Central Asia by the Mongols is well known.
Indian Muslims are facing a rabid hysterical fascist regime backed by a billion strong Hindutva motivated population that has voted it to power and will sustain it for the foreseeable future.


> It's definitely going to be hard for the Indian Muslims for the next 30-50 years. But population growth and demographics are going to tilt things in their favor, especially in Assam and WB. And the world will not sit by if there is a massacre of 250 million people.


In twenty years the world will see the elimination of 200 million people which in numerical terms will be the greatest Holocaust ever. However as a percentage of the global Muslim population it would be a fraction of the earlier losses sustained at the hands of the Mongols.
The "world" _ will _ stand by and watch just as it has stood by and watched in Bosnia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, the Central African Republic and Myanmar, Bosnia was partially saved due to Turkey's threat to intervene, and a weakened Russia at that time. No country is going to take on a billion strong population with a 2.5 million strong armed forces equipped with nuclear weapons on behalf of Indian Muslims who will be dubbed diplomatically as " India's Internal Problem ".
A parallel:
The world did not care for Germany's Jews. The Allies fought Germany only because of Germanys military aggression, and expansionism against other countries, If Germany had concentrated only on elimination of Jews no one would have cared, In fact despite its defeat Germany largely achieved the goal of removal of Jews from its land. Most of the surviving Jews migrated out. Hindutva run India is hoping to achieve just that concentrating on elimination of Muslims in phases starting by first weakening them economically and disenfranchising them, The CAA and NCR laws are the first step., There is flight of the minuscule population of elite Muslims out of India today, They are fleeing to Canada, North America, Australia mostly, and some have accepted the offer of citizenship in Saudi Arabia under their new citizenship laws.Those who can get away are leaving. Even the actor Amir Khan with a Hindu wife is fearful for his family and has openly discussed leaving.


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## xeuss

Baibars_1260 said:


> .
> Don't have one.Kindly explain.
> 
> A large population not rooted in a geographical territory is easily exterminated or assimilated. There was a large Buddhist population in India with even a ruling Buddhist Emperor ( Ashoka ). That didn't stop Hindus from reducing Buddhism to an insignificant fringe religion in India.
> 
> 
> Disagree. Numbers mean little when a population is politically disenfranchised and economically reduced to hunger and starvation and above all defenseless and unable to protect itself from massacre and rape. A good example is the case of the Central African Republic where Muslims constituting 35% of the population have been almost completely eliminated. In Bosnia the Muslims were in a majority and have been reduced through massacres and expulsions to 42% of the population and still declining through migration. Muslims have vanished from Macedonia. So many Chechens have been eliminated that Russia will not even allow a census in the region. The earlier examples of Christians backed cleansing of Andalusian Muslims in Spain and the elimination of 80% of the Muslim population ( in majority) in Central Asia by the Mongols is well known.
> Indian Muslims are facing a rabid hysterical fascist regime backed by a billion strong Hindutva motivated population that has voted it to power and will sustain it for the foreseeable future.
> 
> In twenty years the world will see the elimination of 200 million people which in numerical terms will be the greatest Holocaust ever. However as a percentage of the global Muslim population it would be a fraction of the earlier losses sustained at the hands of the Mongols.
> The "world" _ will _ stand by and watch just as it has stood by and watched in Bosnia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, the Central African Republic and Myanmar, Bosnia was partially saved due to Turkey's threat to intervene, and a weakened Russia at that time. No country is going to take on a billion strong population with a 2.5 million strong armed furces equipped with nuclear weapons on behalf of Indian Muslims who will be dubbed diplomatically as " India's Internal Problem ".
> A parsllel:
> The world did not care for Germany's Jews. The Allies fought Germany only because of Germanys military aggression and expansionism against other countries, If Germany had concentrated only on elimination of Jews no one would have cared, In fact despite its defeat Germany largely achieved the goal of removal of Jews from its land. Most of the surviving Jews migrated out. Hindutva run India is hoping to achieve just that concentrating on elimination of Muslims in phases starting by first weakening them economically and disenfranchising them, The CAA and NCR laws are the first step., There is flight of the minuscule population of elite Muslims out of India today, They are fleeing to Canada, North America, Australia mostly and some have accepted the offer of citizenship in Saudi Arabia under their new citizenship laws.



I have a different view on the end goal of the Sanghis....not that it is any better than what you have described above.

We all agree that the current situation in India is a march towards the re-establishment of Brahmin supremacy and the caste system. However, Brahmin supremacy can only be maintained as long as there is a caste system.

Since the caste hierarchy works as long as there is a caste lower than you to oppress, the creation of Muslims as the neo-dalits is one of the goals that would ensure the survival of the caste structure. So as long as there was a rung lower than the Dalits, the Dalits would be loathe to break up the caste system.

This is where the NRC comes into play. The NRC would render millions of Muslims as stateless. Since they all cannot be sent to detention camps and gas chambers, the lack of documents would prevent any upward social and economic mobility and essentially create the neo-Dalits that would be needed for the caste system to survive.

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## Cliftonite

Baibars_1260 said:


> .
> Don't have one.Kindly explain.
> 
> A large population not rooted in a geographical territory is easily exterminated or assimilated. There was a large Buddhist population in India with even a ruling Buddhist Emperor ( Ashoka ). That didn't stop Hindus from reducing Buddhism to an insignificant fringe religion in India.
> .
> Disagree. Numbers mean little when a population is politically disenfranchised and economically reduced to hunger and starvation and above all defenseless and unable to protect itself from massacre and rape. A good example is the case of the Central African Republic where Muslims constituting 35% of the population have been almost completely eliminated. In Bosnia the Muslims were in a majority and have been reduced through massacres and expulsions to 42% of the population and still declining through migration. Muslims have vanished from Macedonia. So many Chechens have been eliminated that Russia will not even allow a census in the region. The earlier examples of Christians backed cleansing of Andalusian Muslims in Spain and the elimination of 80% of the Muslim population ( in majority) in Central Asia by the Mongols is well known.
> Indian Muslims are facing a rabid hysterical fascist regime backed by a billion strong Hindutva motivated population that has voted it to power and will sustain it for the foreseeable future.
> [
> It's definitely going to be hard for the Indian Muslims for the next 30-50 years. But population growth and demographics are going to tilt things in their favor, especially in Assam and WB. And the world will not sit by if there is a massacre of 250 million people
> In twenty years the world will see the elimination of 200 million people which in numerical terms will be the greatest Holocaust ever. However as a percentage of the global Muslim population it would be a fraction of the earlier losses sustained at the hands of the Mongols.
> The "world" _ will _ stand by and watch just as it has stood by and watched in Bosnia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, the Central African Republic and Myanmar, Bosnia was partially saved due to Turkey's threat to intervene, and a weakened Russia at that time. No country is going to take on a billion strong population with a 2.5 million strong armed furces equipped with nuclear weapons on behalf of Indian Muslims who will be dubbed diplomatically as " India's Internal Problem ".
> A parsllel:
> The world did not care for Germany's Jews. The Allies fought Germany only because of Germanys military aggression and expansionism against other countries, If Germany had concentrated only on elimination of Jews no one would have cared, In fact despite its defeat Germany largely achieved the goal of removal of Jews from its land. Most of the surviving Jews migrated out. Hindutva run India is hoping to achieve just that concentrating on elimination of Muslims in phases starting by first weakening them economically and disenfranchising them, The CAA and NCR laws are the first step., There is flight of the minuscule population of elite Muslims out of India today, They are fleeing to Canada, North America, Australia mostly and some have accepted the offer of citizenship in Saudi Arabia under their new citizenship laws.


You're really not rooted in reality. Or you're deliberately painting a very gloomy picture about Indian Muslims.

Russia's Muslim population is on the rise in Tatarstan, Bashkortistan, Dagestan and Chechnya. Bosnia never had a complete Muslim majority to begin with. It was only 50%. Herzegovina was never Muslim. Islam has only grown in the former Yugoslavia. There are 3 Muslim majority states now- Kosovo, Albania and Bosnia.

Islam is on the rise in Africa as well. Nigeria will transition into a Muslim majority country from a former Christian majority country by 2050. While Ethiopia will be 45% Muslim by then. It's 33% Muslim now.

If India carries out a genocide of even 20 millions, it's going to destabilize India so much that it'll probably split into 3-4 countries in the process. Genocides and pogroms don't happen in a vacuum. Even BJP knows that.

India's Muslims aren't going anywhere. They will face much economical and political persecution for the next 20 years but no genocide. Demographics will eventually tilt things in their favor in many parts of India.


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## Baibars_1260

xeuss said:


> I don't need to lie. I have simply stated my personal experience. It's not like we visit temples often. But when we do (for tourism purposes), we never had a problem and no one in my family ever related any experience otherwise. No one ever fills out a visitor book. I do not even know where I would find one. My last visit to a temple was a couple of years ago to the Monkey temple in Jaipur. I wasn't particularly impressed. Just too many monkeys running around. Our fear was being attacked by the monkeys than any Hindu.


The correct name for the temple in Jaipur is Hanuman temple and not the less polite "Monkey temple".
Is it a functional temple? I don't think so, but I may be wrong because I have only seen it from the outside. There is a difference between functional temples and tourist temples. I have already emphasized the difference in my earlier post.
Functional temples have a donation box _ " daan peti" _ ( دان پیٹی) , large steel or wooden box with a hole into which the devotees drop cash, cheques, gold trinkets etc. There is a visitor's book near by , signing of which may be optional depending on the temple rules. Donors and visitors usually sign the book. Some of the priests ( _pandas _ پنڈا ) can get aggressive and demand cash and signing of the visitor's book. It is then awkward for a Muslim to sign the book. Of course not everyone signs the book as India is largely illiterate and the vast majority of those who visit the functional temples are wretchedly poor.
Monkeys:
There is nothing particularly unusual for monkeys and temples because usually where there is a temple there are monkeys. But
there are monkeys all over most cities in India including Lutyens New Delhi, around Parliament house and the Prime Minister's residence. Architectural monuments are particularly attractive to colonies of monkeys ( actually these are Rhesus macaques) and last year monkey catchers were employed to shoo away monkeys at the Taj Mahal before the visit of the US President.
The government seems to encourage and prefer the Entellus ( Langur) species over the Rhesus Macaques for obvious reasons.


> Other than that, there is a temple every two steps in India and hard to avoid one. No one ever visits those


Agree. Indians are deeply spiritual, and the desire for worship is intense at all times. For a billion Hindus the need is for millions of temples, big or small. Which is why there are mini- temples ranging in size from a small refrigerator to a 10 square foot shed, built on public walkways, public parks, railway stations. factory workshops, malls, schools, universities, and government offices... just about every where.
I have watched my Hindu friends at worship very intently, and am awestruck at their devotion and religious fervor. As they walk by any mini-temple they will stop and reverently fold their hands and bow in reverence. It does not matter which temple it is or even a picture . Indians are very generous in their reverence.
Even a tree in a park becomes a temple by the installation of a _ lingam_ in the base of a trunk. The peaceful and green environment of the parks are very appropriate for spiritual meditation.
For those who visit India, visiting a temple, _ any _ temple is a novel experience.



> Regarding train tickets. Your information is outdated. Yes there was a time, mostly in the 90s, when Muslims would use a different name for a reservation, but that was when reservation lists were posted on the side of the bogie. This was prevalent mostly when travelling to places in East UP. Wasn't known to be practiced in Mumbai or the south. But even in those circumstances, there were Muslims with the traditional kurta-pyjama and burqa who would make the journey. Nowadays, there is no need to falsify names, because tickets are either a code on your mobile phone or require a corresponding ID.



Good to know that thanks to technology Muslims can travel anonymously. Earlier pulling Muslims out of reserved compartments simply by reading the names in the reservation list was relatively easy.
The practice continues however:










Three Muslims allegedly thrashed, thrown out of moving train in Uttar Pradesh


The men reportedly boarded a train in New Delhi and were on their way to their village in Baghpat when a tiff with some youth led to the alleged assault.




indianexpress.com


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## Cliftonite

Baibars_1260 said:


> The correct name for the temple in Jaipur is Hanuman temple and not the less polite "Monkey temple".
> Is it a functional temple? I don't think so, but I may be wrong because I have only seen it from the outside. There is a difference between functional temples and tourist temples. I have already emphasized the difference in my earlier post.
> Functional temples have a donation box _ " daan peti" _ ( دان پیٹی) , large steel or wooden box with a hole into which the devotees drop cash, cheques, gold trinkets etc. There is a visitor's book near by , signing of which may be optional depending on the temple rules. Donors and visitors usually sign the book. Some of the priests ( _pandas _ پنڈا ) can get aggressive and demand cash and signing of the visitor's book. It is then awkward for a Muslim to sign the book. Of course not everyone signs the book as India is largely illiterate and the vast majority of those who visit the functional temples are wretchedly poor.
> Monkeys:
> There is nothing particularly unusual for monkeys and temples because usually where there is a temple there are monkeys. But
> there are monkeys all over most cities in India including Lutyens New Delhi, around Parliament house and the Prime Minister's residence. Architectural monuments are particularly attractive to colonies of monkeys ( actually these are Rhesus macaques) and last year monkey catchers were employed to shoo away monkeys at the Taj Mahal before the visit of the US President.
> The government seems to encourage and prefer the Entellus ( Langur) species over the Rhesus Macaques for obvious reasons.
> 
> Agree. Indians are deeply spiritual, and the desire for worship is intense at all times. For a billion Hindus the need is for millions of temples, big or small. Which is why there are mini- temples ranging in size from a small refrigerator to a 10 square foot shed, built on public walkways, public parks, railway stations. factory workshops, malls, schools, universities, and government offices... just about every where.
> I have watched my Hindu friends at worship very intently, and am awestruck at their devotion and religious fervor. As they walk by any mini-temple they will stop and reverently fold their hands and bow in reverence. It does not matter which temple it is or even a picture . Indians are very generous in their reverence.
> Even a tree in a park becomes a temple by the installation of a _ lingam_ in the base of a trunk. The peaceful and green environment of the parks are very appropriate for spiritual meditation.
> For those who visit India, visiting a temple, _ any _ temple is a novel experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Good to know that thanks to technology Muslims can travel anonymously. Earlier pulling Muslims out of reserved compartments simply by reading the names in the reservation list was relatively easy.
> The practice continues however:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three Muslims allegedly thrashed, thrown out of moving train in Uttar Pradesh
> 
> 
> The men reportedly boarded a train in New Delhi and were on their way to their village in Baghpat when a tiff with some youth led to the alleged assault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> indianexpress.com


How do you know so much about India and Hinduism by just visiting there?


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## Baibars_1260

Cliftonite said:


> How do you know so much about India and Hinduism by just visiting there?


I don't know much about India and Hinduism. I know 0.5 % of what there is to learn. One could study India ( or China for that matter) for lifetime and still know a small fraction of what there is to know.
However knowing the enemy is half way to defeating it.
Visiting a country is a great experience, If you visit with an open mind and open eyes one can learn a lot.
Most Pakistanis are either too insular or are constrained by a false sense of committing "shirk" ( شرک) when getting an opportunity to visit temples or studying the Hindu scriptures. It is not " shirk" to study and know, Your personal beliefs remain unaffected.
The reason the Ottomans and Mamelukes defeated the Mongols and the Crusaders was because they studied their customs and beliefs and used the knowledge to their advantage. A generation earlier Pakistanis well understood Hinduism or more accurately the Sanatana Dharma. Even Allama Iqbal who is one of the founding fathers of Pakistan was well aquainted with Sanskrit and some of his poems are even addressed to Hindu deities such as Lord Ram and Lord Shiva. But that knowledge is all but lost. The new generation of Pakistanis can't even pronounce Sanskrit Indian names correctly ۔ Bihar is pronounced as Bahar or Spring ( بہار) because in phonetic Urdu the _zer_ is often left out. In fact the name Bihar comes from the word وہارا _ vihara _ or monastery. Bihar was largely Buddhist once and the Mecca of Buddhism is still located in Bodh Gaya. These little tidbits of information are hugely relevant.
Pakistanis should also attempt to learn Hindi. It is extremely easy to learn because it is entirely phonetic and unlike English there is only one letter for one sound and one spelling for one word with one sound.
Allama Iqbal's poem for communal amity was spelled out in his poem " _ Naya Shivalaya ".
_ . Few Pakistanis even know what a _Shivalaya _ is .


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## Cliftonite

Baibars_1260 said:


> I don't know much about India and Hinduism. I know 0.5 % of what there is to learn. One could study India ( or China for that matter) for lifetime and still know a small fraction of what there is to know.
> However knowing the enemy is half way to defeating it.
> Visiting a country is a great experience, If you visit with an open mind and open eyes one can learn a lot.
> Most Pakistanis are either too insular or are constrained by a false sense of committing "shirk" ( شرک) when getting an opportunity to visit temples or studying the Hindu scriptures. It is not " shirk" to study and know, Your personal beliefs remain unaffected.
> The reason the Ottomans and Mamelukes defeated the Mongols and the Crusaders was because they studied their customs and beliefs and used the knowledge to their advantage. A generation earlier Pakistanis well understood Hinduism or more accurately the Sanatana Dharma. Even Allama Iqbal who is one of the founding fathers of Pakistan was well aquainted with Sanskrit and some of his poems are even addressed to Hindu deities such as Lord Ram and Lord Shiva. But that knowledge is all but lost. The new generation of Pakistanis can't even pronounce Sanskrit Indian names correctly ۔ Bihar is pronounced as Bahar or Spring ( بہار) because in phonetic Urdu the _zer_ is often left out. In fact the name Bihar comes from the word وہارا _ vihara _ or monastery. Bihar was largely Buddhist once and the Mecca of Buddhism is still located in Bodh Gaya. These little tidbits of information are hugely relevant.
> Pakistanis should also attempt to learn Hindi. It is extremely easy to learn because it is entirely phonetic and unlike English there is only one letter for one sound and one spelling for one word with one sound.
> Allama Iqbal's poem for communal amity was spelled out in his poem " _ Naya Shivalaya "._
> . Few Pakistanis even know what a _Shivalaya _ is .


I asked for precisely that reason. Cause most Pakistanis do not know shite about this region, even going so far as to not know the history of Pakistan before partition.

What does Shivalaya mean? Land of Shiv? Or abode of Shiv? I'm extrapolating because Meghalaya means land of clouds- Megha meaning clouds.

Also you have an Indian flag.


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## HalfMoon

When Islamic rule comes back to India in the next 20 years, all these temples need to be razed to ground for good.


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## Baibars_1260

HalfMoon said:


> When Islamic rule comes back to India in the next 20 years, all these temples need to be razed to ground for good.


Why ? The Turks kept the Greek Temples and the Egyptians have kept the Pyramids and temples of the Pharaohs. Likewise the Syrians have kept the Crusader Castles and Chaldean monuments in Petra.
Even Pakistan has kept the Salt Range temples intact. 
They are archeological monuments and " Islamic" rule in India preserved them. Muslims did NOT destroy temples out of bigotry. Some temples were used as military bases and centers of resistance so they were damaged. But otherwise the damage to Hindu places of worship was minimal.

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## HalfMoon

Baibars_1260 said:


> Why ? The Turks kept the Greek Temples and the Egyptians have kept the Pyramids and temples of the Pharaohs. Likewise the Syrians have kept the Crusader Castles and Chaldean monuments in Petra.
> Even Pakistan has kept the Salt Range temples intact.
> They are archeological monuments and " Islamic" rule in India preserved them. Muslims did NOT destroy temples out of bigotry. Some temples were used as military bases and centers of resistance so they were damaged. But otherwise the damage to Hindu places of worship was minimal.



We should not repeat the mistakes of the past.

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## Baibars_1260

Cliftonite said:


> I asked for precisely that reason. Cause most Pakistanis do not know shite about this region, even going so far as to not know the history of Pakistan before partition.
> 
> What does Shivalaya mean? Land of Shiv? Or abode of Shiv? I'm extrapolating because Meghalaya means land of clouds- Megha meaning clouds.
> 
> Also you have an Indian flag.


Oops ! Corrected the flag. The funny thing about this form is that I can't see the flag myself. I had to call a friend who confirmed I had the wrong flag called up. Don't know if that is a default. 
" Shivalaya " is a temple exclusive to Lord Shiva ( one of the deities of the triumvirate of gods, the others are Vishnu and Brahma ). These were common in pre-Partition Pakistan and you can search for these images online. 
In the pre-Partition era Muslims who were interested in Hindu mythology found the personality of Lord Shiva ( also known as the Destroyer) particularly attractive on account of his valor and forthright behavior. 
Which is why Allama Iqbal chose to title his poem " Naya Shivalaya " or New Temple. 
Interestingly this poem by Allama Iqbal is intensely disliked or even hated both in India and Pakistan. 
However the Indian Prime Minister Manmohun Singh in his earlier role as Finance Minister was brave enough to quote a few telling lines from this poem when presenting the revolutionary budget in 1993 .
This was intensely disgusting to the RSS and VHP members in Parliament. But Manmohun Singh being a Sikh got away with it. 
Because of the risk of being seen as tolerant towards "shirk" no personality in Pakistan has ever dared to quote from this poem.


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## Cliftonite

Baibars_1260 said:


> Oops ! Corrected the flag. The funny thing about this form is that I can't see the flag myself. I had to call a friend who confirmed I had the wrong flag called up. Don't know if that is a default.
> " Shivalaya " is a temple exclusive to Lord Shiva ( one of the deities of the triumvirate of gods, the others are Vishnu and Brahma ). These were common in pre-Partition Pakistan and you can search for these images online.
> In the pre-Partition era Muslims who were interested in Hindu mythology found the personality of Lord Shiva ( also known as the Destroyer) particularly attractive on account of his valor and forthright behavior.
> Which is why Allama Iqbal chose to title his poem " Naya Shivalaya " or New Temple.
> Interestingly this poem by Allama Iqbal is intensely disliked or even hated both in India and Pakistan.
> However the Indian Prime Minister Manmohun Singh in his earlier role as Finance Minister was brave enough to quote a few telling lines from this poem when presenting the revolutionary budget in 1993 .
> This was intensely disgusting to the RSS and VHP members in Parliament. But Manmohun Singh being a Sikh got away with it.
> Because of the risk of being seen as tolerant towards "shirk" no personality in Pakistan has ever dared to quote from this poem.


Yeah.

Followers of Shiva (Shaivites) aren't at the same level of crazy as the Vishnu followers (Vaishnavites). Vaishnavism is mostly common in North and Western India. And they're the most kattar toxic Hindus. South India follows Shaivism while Assam and Bengal follow Shaktism. They are more amicable.

Surprisingly the areas that are now Muslim majority never followed Vedic Hinduism. Pakistan was Buddhist majority while Bangladesh was animist.

Islam would have spread in South and the tribal Munda Santal belt too but I guess the language barrier got in the way and the Muslim kings never really tried hard enough to convert.


Funny fact- I've been called an Indian myself over here because I am pretty well versed in South Asian history and customs. And I don't tout the mard-e-momin rhetoric.

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## Baibars_1260

Cliftonite said:


> Yeah.
> 
> Followers of Shiva (Shaivites) aren't at the same level of crazy as the Vishnu followers (Vaishnavites). Vaishnavism is mostly common in North and Western India. And they're the most kattar toxic Hindus. South India follows Shaivism while Assam and Bengal follow Shaktism. They are more amicable.
> 
> Surprisingly the areas that are now Muslim majority never followed Vedic Hinduism. Pakistan was Buddhist majority while Bangladesh was animist.
> 
> Islam would have spread in South and the tribal Munda Santal belt too but I guess the language barrier got in the way and the Muslim kings never really tried hard enough to convert.
> 
> 
> Funny fact- I've been called an Indian myself over here because I am pretty well versed in South Asian history and customs. And I don't tout the mard-e-momin rhetoric.



My respects to you. You are remarkably well versed yourself on understanding the Hindutva mindset. You have accurately sensed the difference between the largely Vaishnavite North and the Saivite South. Andhra and Telengana have a large population of Vaishnavites too but in a different form worshipping Balaji who is another _ avatar _ of Vishnu (or Narayan). The South Indians have done a remarkable job translating the Sanskrit texts into English and putting these on line. North Indians hate them for this because it puts what they feel is sensitive information in the public domain. 
Understanding the Hindu mind is important.
Example : We must understand why the Kamma and Kapu castes in Andhra Pradesh cannot get along. Which is very relevant considering that Pakistani IT personnel in North America have to work in almost 80% Andhra- Telugu speaking environment. 
Similarly each province in India is different. A Lodh caste from UP is not viewed very kindly by a Thakur Rajput caste. 
The British spent 100 years studying Hindus and India's caste structure from the mid 1700s to the time they captured India in the mid 1800s. The British had to overcome severe linguistic disabilities and learning Indian languages with its myriad dialects is not easy .
But in its defense against India Pakistan started with a huge advantage. Let's take the example of the Telugu language necessary for understanding the Andhra complexities. India's brutal "police action " in 1948 against the Hyderabad state sent a flood of Telugu speaking refugees into Pakistan. Now Pakistan could monitor radio broadcasts and translate an editorial from Eenadu. 
We have since lost these capabilities but they could be quickly rebuilt.I hate to say this but if India drives out Muslims it will be bonus in terms of lnguistic resources for Pakistan.


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## Cliftonite

Baibars_1260 said:


> My respects to you. You are remarkably well versed yourself on understanding the Hindutva mindset. You have accurately sensed the difference between the largely Vaishnavite North and the Saivite South. Andhra and Telengana have a large population of Vaishnavites too but in a different form worshipping Balaji who is another _ avatar _ of Vishnu (or Narayan). The South Indians have done a remarkable job translating the Sanskrit texts into English and putting these on line. North Indians hate them for this because it puts what they feel is sensitive information in the public domain.
> Understanding the Hindu mind is important.
> Example : We must understand why the Kamma and Kapu castes in Andhra Pradesh cannot get along. Which is very relevant considering that Pakistani IT personnel in North America have to work in almost 80% Andhra- Telugu speaking environment.
> Similarly each province in India is different. A Lodh caste from UP is not viewed very kindly by a Thakur Rajput caste.
> The British spent 100 years studying Hindus and India's caste structure from the mid 1700s to the time they captured India in the mid 1800s. The British had to overcome severe linguistic disabilities and learning Indian languages with its myriad dialects is not easy .
> But in its defense against India Pakistan started with a huge advantage. Let's take the example of the Telugu language necessary for understanding the Andhra complexities. India's brutal "police action " in 1948 against the Hyderabad state sent a flood of Telugu speaking refugees into Pakistan. Now Pakistan could monitor radio broadcasts and translate an editorial from Eenadu.
> We have since lost these capabilities but they could be quickly rebuilt.I hate to say this but if India drives out Muslims it will be bonus in terms of lnguistic resources for Pakistan.


I like the way you approach things lol.

The plebian approach here of most Pakistanis is so lame. Kashmir se aagey soch nahi barhti inki. Indian Muslims are an asset, Indian Christians and Sikhs are an asset, Dravidians and Dalits are an asset, Bangladesh could have been an asset (Siliguri corridor hello???)

India's flaw is its diversity. While I don't think caste differences will work- they are far too miniscule to work. But I understand Indian dynamics relatively better than most Pakistanis on a macro level.

India's problem areas are the South and the Northeast. The Northeast doesn't seem all that threatening right now but it's going to have a blowback 30-40 years in the future. And IMO also another state that has been in the news recently can give massive pains to the cow belt center.


Pakistan should have given refuge to Khalistanis after Bluestar. We don't realise it but a free Khalistan is so strategic.

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## Baibars_1260

Cliftonite said:


> I like the way you approach things lol.
> 
> The plebian approach here of most Pakistanis is so lame. Kashmir se aagey soch nahi barhti inki. Indian Muslims are an asset, Indian Christians and Sikhs are an asset, Dravidians and Dalits are an asset, Bangladesh could have been an asset (Siliguri corridor hello???)
> 
> India's flaw is its diversity. While I don't think caste differences will work- they are far too miniscule to work. But I understand Indian dynamics relatively better than most Pakistanis on a macro level.
> 
> India's problem areas are the South and the Northeast. The Northeast doesn't seem all that threatening right now but it's going to have a blowback 30-40 years in the future. And IMO also another state that has been in the news recently can give massive pains to the cow belt center.
> 
> 
> Pakistan should have given refuge to Khalistanis after Bluestar. We don't realise it but a free Khalistan is so strategic.



I agree. Caste politics is internal to India and has no bearing on India's relationship with Pakistan and is not at all a factor. The same goes for Indian Muslims, Sikhs etc. But it does give an insight into working of the systems around there. Wouldn't it be good to know if an Indian official who is a Kamma has a Kapu superior, and how that would affect the working as compared to two Brahmins working together? It is not that in attitude the Kamma or Kapu would suddenly turn secular or view Pakistan favorably. It is the way they function. The best analogy I can give is hitching a mule and horse together to one cart as compared to two horses. 
Indian Muslims are no factor at all. 
India is unlikely to have an Indira Gandhi type secular nationalist government again. 

An India Pakistan nuclear show down is very likely based on an act of stupidity by India. Predicting such an act of stupidity is important.

Till a full blown war happens the Social Media war needs to be pursued. It is here that Pakistanis lag behind. I once asked one of the RSS thugs on this forum what were his grades in thenTelugu paper he wrote in his high school exam. 
He was dumbfounded how I knew he was Telugu speaking. I didn't have the heart to tell him that his constant reference to Andhra Telengana culture (which he was portraying as " Indian "
culture gave him away.

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## Cliftonite

Baibars_1260 said:


> I agree. Caste politics is internal to India and has no bearing on India's relationship with Pakistan and is not at all a factor. The same goes for Indian Muslims, Sikhs etc. But it does give an insight into working of the systems around there. Wouldn't it be good to know if an Indian official who is a Kamma has a Kapu superior, and how that would affect the working as compared to two Brahmins working together? It is not that in attitude the Kamma or Kapu would suddenly turn secular or view Pakistan favorably. It is the way they function. The best analogy I can give is hitching a mule and horse together to one cart as compared to two horses.
> Indian Muslims are no factor at all.
> India is unlikely to have an Indira Gandhi type secular nationalist government again.
> 
> An India Pakistan nuclear show down is very likely based on an act of stupidity by India. Predicting such an act of stupidity is important.
> 
> Till a full blown war happens the Social Media war needs to be pursued. It is here that Pakistanis lag behind. I once asked one of the RSS thugs on this forum what were his grades in thenTelugu paper he wrote in his high school exam.
> He was dumbfounded how I knew he was Telugu speaking. I didn't have the heart to tell him that his constant reference to Andhra Telengana culture (which he was portraying as " Indian "
> culture gave him away.


I absolutely disagree that Indian Muslims, Christians and Sikhs are no factors.

The way I see it India's states will start fighting within themselves in the next two decades.

BJP has brought such rot into the system that's it's only going to keep getting worse from here.

Only Indira Gandhi's emergency led to such levels of authoritarianism and social discord. It led to the Sikh insurgency, and then the Kashmir insurgency after her son took charge.

If Pakistan had played its cards right and kept the Khalistan and Kashmir burning together it would have bled India. But we had done no planning


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## Adonis

fitpOsitive said:


> Are you guys building something like that nowadays?



I guess Yes..they are...









Swaminarayan Akshardham (Delhi) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## darksider

Baibars_1260 said:


> That's on the Khajuraho temples. Google the image.
> 
> Why is it narrow minded?
> After political changes populations DO drift apart. We ARE different. Even the Indians say so.
> Even with the same ethnic stock Americans are different from Europeans. Germans are different from Austrians, Swiss and Walloons.
> To appreciate architecture, music, or literature we don't have to artificially link a genetic heritage.
> We can read and appreciate Shakespeare, listen to Strauss,
> and appreciate the architecture of the Notre Dame de Paris without identifying ourselves as British, Germans, or French. Why do we have to artificially identify with Indians? Why even the Bangladeshis don't identify with West Bengalis as they have over the last 49 years developed their own culture.
> 
> 
> Surprised you traveled 8 times on a Pakistani passport to India. You must have connections, because India does not grant that many visas, and I hope your police reporting was pleasant.
> Most Pakistanis do the "Mughal " Delhi Agra Sikandara Fatehpur Sikri circuit or maybe a stroll through the Charminar area slums of Hyderabad. Very few Pakistanis have heard of the Vedagiriswarar temple in Tirukalukundram ( Tamil Nadu, Kanchipuram) where two birds are supposed to fly all the way from Tibet ( Mount Kailash) every day to be fed by the temple priests.
> To get to know the " real " India you must visit these places and also have a strong stomach and visit thr Kumbh Mela and watch the Naga Sadhus jump into the river. You must stand by the cremation ghats in Benares ( Varanasi) and smell the "burning ". You must watch the aughars, the unclad sadhvis, the immersion of the idols during Durga Puja ...and Ganpati. Watch the beheading of the goats in the Kali Mandir... The devdasis dancing the Andhra Natyam.
> * THAT * is India...
> 
> Something these keyboard "experts " uploading sanitized pictures can never convey to you. Nor for that matter will their Indian Muslim compatriots who try to present a "as 'Islamic' as you " face to Pakistanis..


Can you link me with original devdasi dance but not stage performances.i tried to find with google but front page is full of stage performances not the original dance in tample.
Thanks for other info you shared.i will always keep this in my mind if i ever visit india.
But Pakistanis should not visit India until modi or bjp is in power.

@Suriya 
And i am missing images of tejo mahalaya. Which is most famous historical building of india world wide.other images you are posting people dont know about them much.so post some images tejo mahalaya also.

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## Bilal.

Exquisite! So intricately done. Amazing, even a small portion of the carvings would be a master piece and they built entire buildings covered with such intricate art.


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## kongn

Halebidu personally is the most exquisite.





The most impressive video on the architectural styles of indian temples and their development style.

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## Baibars_1260

Cliftonite said:


> I absolutely disagree that Indian Muslims, Christians and Sikhs are no factors.
> 
> The way I see it India's states will start fighting within themselves in the next two decades.
> 
> BJP has brought such rot into the system that's it's only going to keep getting worse from here.
> 
> Only Indira Gandhi's emergency led to such levels of authoritarianism and social discord. It led to the Sikh insurgency, and then the Kashmir insurgency after her son took charge.
> 
> If Pakistan had played its cards right and kept the Khalistan and Kashmir burning together it would have bled India. But we had done no planning


On second thoughts you may be right. There is ethno-linguistic chauvinism to an extreme degree in India where even Hindutva anti-Islam and anti-Pakistan sentiment fails to unite. The case in Maharashtra is good example.
The Shiv Sena which sought to hog the credit for bringing down the Babri Masjid and once threatened Pakistani cricket players with death if they attempted to play a test match in Bombay is today locked in combat with the BJP in alliance with the local Congress. The reason ostensibly is Maratha pride but the RSS itself is Maharashtra based, and its top leadership have always been Marathi Brahmins. So the question boils down to caste and power sharing and regional loyalties. Another remarkable case is the split between Andhra and Telengana . Both populations are Telugu speaking with an identical culture and caste set up and both populations have an intense hatred of Indian ( Hyderabadi) Muslims and Muslims in general ( the Andhra ladies and gentlemen on this forum are good examples). Yet they split because the Andhra population largely confined to the coast were not tuned to the IT industry hub in Hyderabad. The original Andhra Pradesh split. 
Armed conflicts by use of paramilitary forces amongst states in India have already happened, chiefly over water resources.
Examples :
Punjab and Haryana:








Sutlej-Yamuna Link Canal row: ‘Punjab will burn’ if forced to share water with Haryana, says CM


Amarinder Singh urged the Centre to be cautious on the issue, as it had the ‘potential to disturb the nation’s security’.




scroll.in





Nagaland and Assam: 
In the past there have been pitched battles between the Nagaland Armed Constabulary 
and the Assam police using mortars and machine guns. 








Trouble brewing at Nagaland-Assam border after organisations launch economic blockade


Karbi Students Association (KSA) begun an indefinite economic blockade along the Assam-Nagaland inter-state borders in Karbi Anglong district of Assam from Tuesday alleging illegal encroachments by Nagaland.




m.economictimes.com




Karnataka and Tamil Nadu:
Karnataka and Tamil Nadu armed police confronted each other over water resources.








Why water war has broken out in India's Silicon Valley


TS Sudhir explains why violence has broken out in India's technology hub Bangalore over a long-running dispute about water.



www.bbc.com





Khalistan:
With the assassination of Indira Gandhi the Khalistan movement lost traction amongst the Indian Sikh population, Sikh troops had mutineed against the destruction of the Golden Temple. 
The nationwide mass pogrom against Sikhs have achieved the following:
1. While Khalistan itself is a distant dream the original hostility of Sikhs against India's Muslim minority has been dented for good. Sikhs can feel some of the pain the Indian Muslims feel having been on the receiving end of fascist violence.
2. Sikh hostility towards Pakistan has been tempered because of the need for Sikh pilgrims to visit their sacred centers of pilgrimage which now lie in Pakistan. Originally the Sikhs had believed the Hindutva zealots that Pakistan would collapse and be "reconquered" for a joint Hindu Sikh rule., Sikhs know that will never happen.
3. Pakistan's own policies towards Sikhs, both the minority living in Pakistan and the international diaspora has been remarkably consistent. The Kartarpur corridor, and the renovation of Sikh temples as well as the induction of Sikhs into the armed forces in Pakistan has done a great deal to build relations between Sikhs and Pakistan. There are linguistic and cultural similarities between the populations of Punjab in India and Punjab in Pakistan. This did not prevent the most horrible atrocities being committed on the respective minority populations during Partition. The deep hostility continued throughout the decades from the 1940s to 1980s but has since undergone a change. 
The original support the population in Indian Punjab had for continuing hostility towards Pakistan has vanished.
Kartarpur corridor has been a master diplomatic stroke.

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## Cliftonite

Baibars_1260 said:


> On second thoughts you may be right. There is ethno-linguistic chauvinism to an extreme degree in India where even Hindutva anti-Islam and anti-Pakistan sentiment fails to unite. The case in Maharashtra is good example.
> The Shiv Sena which sought to hog the credit for bringing down the Babri Masjid and once threatened Pakistani cricket players with death if they attempted to play a test match in Bombay is today locked in combat with the BJP in alliance with the local Congress. The reason ostensibly is Maratha pride but the RSS itself is Maharashtra based, and its top leadership have always been Marathi Brahmins. So the question boils down to caste and power sharing and regional loyalties. Another remarkable case is the split between Andhra and Telengana . Both populations are Telugu speaking with an identical culture and caste set up and both populations have an intense hatred of Indian ( Hyderabadi) Muslims and Muslims in general ( the Andhra ladies and gentlemen on this forum are good examples). Yet they split because the Andhra population largely confined to the coast were not tuned to the IT industry hub in Hyderabad. The original Andhra Pradesh split.
> Armed conflicts by use of paramilitary forces amongst states in India have already happened, chiefly over water resources.
> Examples :
> Punjab and Haryana:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sutlej-Yamuna Link Canal row: ‘Punjab will burn’ if forced to share water with Haryana, says CM
> 
> 
> Amarinder Singh urged the Centre to be cautious on the issue, as it had the ‘potential to disturb the nation’s security’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scroll.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nagaland and Assam:
> In the past there have been pitched battles between the Nagaland Armed Constabulary
> and the Assam police using mortars and machine guns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trouble brewing at Nagaland-Assam border after organisations launch economic blockade
> 
> 
> Karbi Students Association (KSA) begun an indefinite economic blockade along the Assam-Nagaland inter-state borders in Karbi Anglong district of Assam from Tuesday alleging illegal encroachments by Nagaland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.economictimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Karnataka and Tamil Nadu:
> Karnataka and Tamil Nadu armed police confronted each other over water resources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why water war has broken out in India's Silicon Valley
> 
> 
> TS Sudhir explains why violence has broken out in India's technology hub Bangalore over a long-running dispute about water.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khalistan:
> With the assassination of Indira Gandhi the Khalistan movement lost traction amongst the Indian Sikh population, Sikh troops had mutineed against the destruction of the Golden Temple.
> The nationwide mass pogrom against Sikhs have achieved the following:
> 1. While Khalistan itself is a distant dream the original hostility of Sikhs against India's Muslim minority has been dented for good. Sikhs can feel some of the pain the Indian Muslims feel having been on the receiving end of fascist violence.
> 2. Sikh hostility towards Pakistan has been tempered because of the need for Sikh pilgrims to visit their sacred centers of pilgrimage which now lie in Pakistan. Originally the Sikhs had believed the Hindutva zealots that Pakistan would collapse and be "reconquered" for a joint Hindu Sikh rule., Sikhs know that will never happen.
> 3. Pakistan's own policies towards Sikhs, both the minority living in Pakistan and the international diaspora has been remarkably consistent. The Kartarpur corridor, and the renovation of Sikh temples as well as the induction of Sikhs into the armed forces in Pakistan has done a great deal to build relations between Sikhs and Pakistan. There are linguistic and cultural similarities between the populations of Punjab in India and Punjab in Pakistan. This did not prevent the most horrible atrocities being committed on the respective minority populations during Partition. The deep hostility continued throughout the decades from the 1940s to 1980s but has since undergone a change.
> The original support the population in Indian Punjab had for continuing hostility towards Pakistan has vanished.
> Kartarpur corridor has been a master diplomatic stroke.


BJP bhakts have a severe disdain for Southies. It's going to be interesting to watch how it plays out.

The Maratha Shiv Sena vs cow belt BJP tussle is also interesting. Let's see how it works out. Hain tou dono ek hi thaali ke chatte batte. But BJP makes no qualms about being overtly Hindi belt. Will the Maratha nationalist Shiv Sena be okay with that?

The north and south of the Vindhyas are almost two different countries lugging along at different speeds like a horse and a mule.

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## Baibars_1260

darksider said:


> Can you link me with original devdasi dance but not stage performances.i tried to find with google but front page is full of stage performances not the original dance in tample.
> Thanks for other info you shared.i will always keep this in my mind if i ever visit india.
> But Pakistanis should not visit India until modi or bjp is in power.
> 
> @Suriya
> And i am missing images of tejo mahalaya. Which is most famous historical building of india world wide.other images you are posting people dont know about them much.so post some images tejo mahalaya also.


On Devadasis: 
This is what they looked like:








File:Devadasi 1920s.JPG - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





There is no video footage of the actual devadasis dance because the temple authorities do not allow photography inside the temples ( not even the British were able to
do that). Those of us who have visited the "ancillary buildings" at 
Tirupati have seen private performances for ourselves.,
Likewise there are "ancillary service " facilities at Kalighat , in Kolkata. Am not sure about Puri and other Dhaams.
Re-enactments: 
There are several Bollywood , Tamil and Malayalam movies based on the practice of Devdasis. Here the rituals where the girls are "dedicated " to God have been meticulously re-enacted. The rituals depicted are very authentic but of course are censored in some details per the existing media censorship laws. Search for the movie title _ Devdasi _ in Malayalam, or Tamil on Youtube. If you can find a subtitled version then scroll through to the induction ceremony.
Here is a crude documentary on the Devdasi practice " Pratha" :

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## Mace

Indus Pakistan said:


> No.
> 
> Yes and no. Yes, we share common history with all humanity.
> 
> Just because we should appreciate Indian art should not be used to now sing the "we be same" songs please. I have absolutely no ancestry with a Bihari, Madya Pradeshi, a Tamil a Bengali beyond the common human link we all have.



You are confusing common past heritage/culture with common ancestry. 

Physical distance ensures little/no commonality between Pakistani and a Bengali or a Tamil. No need to keep parotting the same nonsense over and over. But ancient/current day Indians and ancient Pakistanis shared common culture and heritage. 

Shortsighted Pakistanis like you have a lot to learn from Indonesians. Unlike Pakistanis Muslim Indonesians are comfortable acknowledging their Hindu/Buddhist past as part of their ancient heritage.

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## Baibars_1260

Mace said:


> Unlike Pakistanis Muslim Indonesians are comfortable acknowledging their Hindu/Buddhist past as part of their ancient heritage.



For your education:
There is a stark difference between Indonesia and Pakistan. The analogy is poor.

Indonesian of ethnic island stock converted to Islam based on the contact due to trade with other Muslim countries. Their ethnic stock and thus their heritage remained unchanged. There was no immigration, invasion or settlement of different races or any diversity. It is thus natural and easy for Indonesians to relate to their ore-Islamic heritage. Bangladesh is similar.
Retaining links with a cultural heritage does not mean a potential reversal to the original faith. Globally Muslims have converted from many different faiths, Shamanism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, Arab paganism, and of course the largest population of conversions ( if you combine Bangladesh, Indonesia, Brunei , Malaysia, India Pakistan) has been from Hinduism.

People's who have converted to Islam have mostly retained their culture after conversion.
Iran still relates to its Zoroastrian heritage. The Oghuz Turks who migrated out of Central Asia fleeing the Mongols retained much of their Shamanist cultural symbols after conversion to Islam; including most importantly their martial prowess and heritage which was similar to the Mongols, Turks today keep their pre-Islamic names and though no longer tribal do look back with pride at their Central Asian origins 
Pakistan is different.
Islam spread here through a combination of Sufi mysticism, and settling of different ethnic peoples who arrived both through trade and
conquest. There was a merger of cultures and it took centuries for a cultural base line to emerge based on mix of Persian, Arab and Turko- Afghan cultures primarily amongst the elite. The common rural folk in three of Pakistan's provinces still carry much of their pre-Islamic culture _native to their region _.
So the Sindhi peasant relates to Jhulelal and likewise Punjabi peasant relates to the folklore even retaining names like Lahore for their cities.
There is no single ethnic entity in Pakistan because of its racial mix over the centuries from Greeks to Mongols and beyond. Pakistan can largely be grouped into four ( or now five) geographically demarcated linguistic, and cultural
provinces,
Bottom line :
* Pakistanis do have a cultural link to their pre-Islamic history dating from the Indus valley civilization of Moenjodaro and Harrapa. They also have a syncretic connection based on the Sufi traditions with local folklore and culture native to their regions. This is common to ALL Muslim communities globally who maintain a link to their cultural past after converting to Islam. 
Holding up the example of Indonesia to Pakistanis as to
why they should accept or revert to Hinduism is idiotic . Even the Bangladeshis with such close linguistic and cultural ties to their Hindu cousins in India don't buy such twisted logic; nor for that matter do the Moplah Muslims of Malabar in Kerala. 

Pakistan is a nation with its own rich culture and heritage and doesn't need to borrow it from the Hoysalas and Chola kingdoms of yore. Pakistanis are no more going to go back to Hinduism, Buddhism, or Shamanism than the Indonesians, Bangladeshis or Turks. The attempts by the RSS bhakts here to shame Pakistanis into doing so are futile. 
We ARE different and will remain so. *

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## Mace

Baibars_1260 said:


> For your education:
> There is a stark difference between Indonesia and Pakistan. The analogy is poor.
> 
> Indonesian of ethnic island stock converted to Islam based on the contact due to trade with other Muslim countries. Their ethnic stock and thus their heritage remained unchanged. There was no immigration, invasion or settlement of different races or any diversity. It is thus natural and easy for Indonesians to relate to their ore-Islamic heritage. Bangladesh is similar.
> Retaining links with a cultural heritage does not mean a potential reversal to the original faith. Globally Muslims have converted from many different faiths, Shamanism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, Arab paganism, and of course the largest population of conversions ( if you combine Bangladesh, Indonesia, Brunei , Malaysia, India Pakistan) has been from Hinduism.
> 
> People's who have converted to Islam have mostly retained their culture after conversion.
> Iran still relates to its Zoroastrian heritage. The Oghuz Turks who migrated out of Central Asia fleeing the Mongols retained much of their Shamanist cultural symbols after conversion to Islam; including most importantly their martial prowess and heritage which was similar to the Mongols, Turks today keep their pre-Islamic names and though no longer tribal do look back with pride at their Central Asian origins
> Pakistan is different.
> Islam spread here through a combination of Sufi mysticism, and settling of different ethnic peoples who arrived both through trade and
> conquest. There was a merger of cultures and it took centuries for a cultural base line to emerge based on mix of Persian, Arab and Turko- Afghan cultures primarily amongst the elite. The common rural folk in three of Pakistan's provinces still carry much of their pre-Islamic culture _native to their region _.
> So the Sindhi peasant relates to Jhulelal and likewise Punjabi peasant relates to the folklore even retaining names like Lahore for their cities.
> There is no single ethnic entity in Pakistan because of its racial mix over the centuries from Greeks to Mongols and beyond. Pakistan can largely be grouped into four ( or now five) geographically demarcated linguistic, and cultural
> provinces,
> Bottom line :
> * Pakistanis do have a cultural link to their pre-Islamic history dating from the Indus valley civilization of Moenjodaro and Harrapa. They also have a syncretic connection based on the Sufi traditions with local folklore and culture native to their regions. This is common to ALL Muslim communities globally who maintain a link to their cultural past after converting to Islam.
> Holding up the example of Indonesia to Pakistanis as to
> why they should accept or revert to Hinduism is idiotic . Even the Bangladeshis with such close linguistic and cultural ties to their Hindu cousins in India don't buy such twisted logic; nor for that matter do the Moplah Muslims of Malabar in Kerala.
> 
> Pakistan is a nation with its own rich culture and heritage and doesn't need to borrow it from the Hoysalas and Chola kingdoms of yore. Pakistanis are no more going to go back to Hinduism, Buddhism, or Shamanism than the Indonesians, Bangladeshis or Turks. The attempts by the RSS bhakts here to shame Pakistanis into doing so are futile.
> We ARE different and will remain so. *



Your grasp of English language is not one of your main strengths.  Reread my post. Nobody is asking you or Indonesians to renounce your religion. What you are exhibiting is probably the same blind spot most Pakistanis suffer from.


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## Baibars_1260

Mace said:


> Your grasp of English language is not one of your main strengths.  Reread my post. Nobody is asking you or Indonesians to renounce your religion. What you are exhibiting is probably the same blind spot most Pakistanis suffer from.


Likewise your grasp of English is insufficient.😂
You are comparing Indonesian appreciation for their pre-Islamic heritage with Pakistan's "non-appreciation " or denial of their heritage.
Will make it simple for you since dyslexia is a common affliction among RSS _ Andhbhakts_ .
1. Pakistani pre-Islamic heritage is different and there have been different phases of evolution since the Indus Valley civilization until the 8th Century C.E. when conversions to Islam began. The heritage was not only Hindu, but a mix of Buddhism and local folk lore. It is unclear what the religion of the Indus Valley Civilization was. This is something the RSS bhakts ignore.
2. Pakistanis do value their cultural heritage. It is just not evident to the RSS because Pakistanis are not acknowledging the Sanatana Dharmic Aryan Centric Brahmanical Vedic straight jacket and show a reverence to that culture; and there is no reason why they should.
For that matter Sikhs who converted mostly from Hindu peasant stock in Punjab have far less reverence for their Vedic culture either. The RSS is careful not to rake this point up with Sikhs.

I could put it in simpler English.
We don't care what the Indonesians think , or for that matter what the RSS thinks of us. If you don't like our culture you are welcome to take a hike. You are welcome to your million temples and build some more.

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## Mace

Baibars_1260 said:


> Likewise your grasp of English is insufficient.😂
> You are comparing Indonesian appreciation for their pre-Islamic heritage with Pakistan's "non-appreciation " or denial of their heritage.
> Will make it simple for you since dyslexia is a common affliction among RSS _ Andhbhakts_ .
> 1. Pakistani pre-Islamic heritage is different and there have been different phases of evolution since the Indus Valley civilization until the 8th Century C.E. when conversions to Islam began. The heritage was not only Hindu, but a mix of Buddhism and local folk lore. It is unclear what the religion of the Indus Valley Civilization was. This is something the RSS bhakts ignore.
> 2. Pakistanis do value their cultural heritage. It is just not evident to the RSS because Pakistanis are not acknowledging the Sanatana Dharmic Aryan Centric Brahmanical Vedic straight jacket and show a reverence to that culture; and there is no reason why they should.
> For that matter Sikhs who converted mostly from Hindu peasant stock in Punjab have far less reverence for their Vedic culture either. The RSS is careful not to rake this point up with Sikhs.
> 
> I could put it in simpler English.
> We don't care what the Indonesians think , or for that matter what the RSS thinks of us. If you don't like our culture you are welcome to take a hike. You are welcome to your million temples and build some more.



 What the F are you rambling on about?


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## Baibars_1260

Mace said:


> What the F are you rambling on about?


Read... but that seems to be a tall order for you.🤨


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## Suriya

_Bhagwan Shiva controls the 5 elements of nature.

This temple represents the water. The sanctum of Jambukeswara has an underground water stream & in spite of pumping water out, it’s always filled with water_!









> @Maarkhoor
> By looking at the statue it confirm that in ancient India before Muslim arrival they are not wearing proper cloths especially women.





MM_Haider said:


> exactly ... Muslims after arriving in India taught them the civility.. even if your read the travelogue of Ibn e Batuta .. he also mentions the same..




*Gold coin of Kanishka (6th century Indian king) wearing Kurta Payjama. Take knowing date as homework. 







This is Bronze rattling mirror (4th-5th Century BC) which depicts Indian women wearing waist-length Kurti. 







@Maarkhoor 


Ancient statue from 3rd Cen BC in Udaygiri and Khandagiri Caves, is wearing a long, kurta with Angarkha.







Statue of Devi from 2nd Century BC at Mathura. What is she wearing? Kurta isn’t it?







Statue of a warrior from the Kushan era (circa 30-375 AD). What is it wearing? @Maarkhoor *








his sculpture from Gupta Period shows Chudidar & Kurta? Do you know how early were Guptas from Mughals? @Maarkhoor @MM_Haider






*This is a painting from 1015 AD East India. 411 before arrival of Mughals. You can see girl wearing half kurta & Payjama 




*
_Forget carving, even drawing this on a paper is a BIG DEAL ..For today's Generation... 

This is 1000years old carving of ravana lifting kailash mountain on his arm*. Chennakeshava Temple, Belur ,karnataka




*_
_*Girnar jain temple *_





_Bhagwan Vishnu 5 mtr long Moorti in reclining posture sculpted from a single block of granite is very rich & famous. 
Undavalli caves are very ancient and they are cut from the hill they are on. This Moorti is also one of the largest and magnificent among the other monuments. _










*' The Stone Chariot - Hampi '*

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## Suriya

_Magnificent Vedic architecture with intricately carved Shikhara at *Kedareshvara* Temple, Balligavi Shimoga district Karnataka. Would you believe if I say it is about *950yrs old*?_









_Try to look beyond 7 wonders , Our Bharat is much more than that _


*Jaisalmer Jain temple , Rajasthan *








*The Shore Temple (built in 700–728 AD) is so named because it overlooks the shore of the Bay of Bengal. It is located near Chennai in Tamil Nadu. At the time of its creation, the site was a busy port during the reign of Narasimhavarman II of the Pallava dynasty. 

















The Ranakpur Jain Temple is such a grand and unique carving that one wants to see it again and again. 



*

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## Maarkhoor

Suriya said:


> _Magnificent Vedic architecture with intricately carved Shikhara at *Kedareshvara* Temple, Balligavi Shimoga district Karnataka. Would you believe if I say it is about *950yrs old*?_
> 
> 
> View attachment 693376
> 
> _Try to look beyond 7 wonders , Our Bharat is much more than that _
> 
> 
> *Jaisalmer Jain temple , Rajasthan *
> 
> View attachment 693377
> 
> *The Shore Temple (built in 700–728 AD) is so named because it overlooks the shore of the Bay of Bengal. It is located near Chennai in Tamil Nadu. At the time of its creation, the site was a busy port during the reign of Narasimhavarman II of the Pallava dynasty.
> 
> View attachment 693380
> View attachment 693381
> View attachment 693382
> View attachment 693383
> *


Why they carved nude women? I think in ancient times in India women were not wearing cloths at all.


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## Suriya

Maarkhoor said:


> Why they carved nude women? I think in ancient times in India women were not wearing cloths at all.


_Firstly use ur prejudiced eyes again, there aren't nude. 

Sculptures were done in certain ways, following what is called artistic tradition or pattern of that era. 

Secondly, why do you think even todays artists draw nude, is it that people don't wear any clothing today?_

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## Suriya

_*Just look at the carved pillars! So intricate and perfect Ekambareswarar Temple is located in the town of Kanchipuram in Tamil Nadu, India. 




*_


*Imagine the level of finesse that ancient Hindu sculptures possessed. 
They even carved veins on the hardest rock Granite. Any guesses how? 




*

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## Suriya

@Maarkhoor Look at what she is wearing before making BS claims.


*Emperor Skandgupta and His Queen
Gold Coin 5th Century A.D *


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## Suriya

_The long colonnade at 1700+ years old Rameshwaram temple, India. _ 











_Wooden carving of Lord Vishnu on Garuda @ Sanctuary of truth Pattaya, Thailand.







Prambanan temple, a 9th-century Hindu temple at Yogyakarta, Indonesia is dedicated to trinity of hinduism.




_

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## Vapnope

Amazing thread. Kudos for sharing.

I have noticed that Buddhist stupas are different than Hindu temples i mean the architecture wise. Can anyone shed some light on it?
Thanks in advance.

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## Suriya

*Mind it - "This is Stone & Not Wood"



Thousand pillar temple, Hindu Temple in Hanamkonda, Telangana completed in 1324 CE by order of the king, Rudra Deva 




*

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## Suriya

*Perfect Or Not Yet ? *


*Chennakeshava Temple, Belur, Karnataka built in 12th century*

*



*


*Another artifact from the same temple. Friends, look at the stone chains entangled like snakes !Unbelievable! 
Believe it or not this was carved nearly 800 years ago! Using our latest technology, putting Science all together, can we imagine of constructing such kind of Stone ceiling?




*

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## jamahir

Suriya said:


> India's GDP in 11th century(1000AD) before foreign Muslim invasion was 28% of world' GDP.



And India as of 2020 is the 6th largest economy in the world. But does that matter in actuality ? A majority of Indians generally live and die in miserable conditions and many don't even question that. As our Chinese member @TaiShang put it :


> Indians will never understand the ground-shaking, nerve-racking, and history-changing effects of a revolution. They just lack the vigor and rigor.


And those Indians who speak of revolutionary change are immediately slotted as anti-nationals, tukde tukde gang, Urban Naxals etc.

Sad.

By the way, Hinduism is as foreign to India as Islam. Hinduism just preceded Islam by 2000 years or so.



Suriya said:


> Another artifact from the same temple. Friends, look at the stone chains entangled like snakes !Unbelievable!
> Believe it or not this was carved nearly 800 years ago! Using our latest technology, putting Science all together, can we imagine of constructing such kind of Stone ceiling?



Below is a more aesthetic and organic building designed by the late Iraqi-origin architect Zaha Hadid :






And I am sure modern architects can comfortably construct the unaesthetic and unnecessary intricate architecture you show.

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## Suriya

*You can only feel the divine energy of ancient Hindu Temples but you can never explain it.... 




Ekambareswarar Temple in Kanchipuram, Tamil Nadu was completed in 14th century*

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## Suriya

*The unmatched intricacy and the spectacular craftsmanship beholds the greatness of our ancestors and heritage 



Kedareshwara temple halebidu ,Hassan Dist.Karnataka was constructed by Hoysala King Veera Ballala II between 1173–1220 A.D



*
*Our ancestors created masterpieces mingled with immense determination, bhakti, compassion and pride.. and named them TEMPLES!


Jaislamer Jain temple , rajasthan*

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## Suriya

*When rest of the World was trying to draw on stone our ancestors did an extraordinary piece of 3D carvings on one of the hardest rock i.e granite. 
And they asks us- what did we built !! 


Jambukeswarar Temple in Tiruchirapalli, Tamil Nadu built was built by Kocengannan (Kochenga Chola), one of the Early Cholas around 1800 years ago. 





*

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## Suriya

*Live each present moment completely and the future will take care of itself.




*

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## waz

I shall sticky this.

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## Indos

*Prambanan Temple, Central Java, Indonesia, *built in 9 Century






This drone show Prambanan temple (Hindu) and Sewu temple (Budhist). Both are near to each other which show freedom of religion have already exist in Indonesia since 9 Century. Sewu Temple is built in 8 Century.

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## Vanamali

xeuss said:


> Not sure if you are relating from personal experience, but that has not been my experience at all.
> 
> As a Muslim, I have never been stopped while entering a temple or had to hide my Muslim identity for the same. None of my family members have experienced anything different.



Agreed...






HalfMoon said:


> When Islamic rule comes back to India in the next 20 years, all these temples need to be razed to ground for good.


Your type of guys are the reason for Islamophobia...


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## Vanamali

jamahir said:


> And India as of 2020 is the 6th largest economy in the world. But does that matter in actuality ? A majority of Indians generally live and die in miserable conditions and many don't even question that. As our Chinese member @TaiShang put it :
> 
> And those Indians who speak of revolutionary change are immediately slotted as anti-nationals, tukde tukde gang, Urban Naxals etc.
> 
> Sad.
> 
> By the way, Hinduism is as foreign to India as Islam. Hinduism just preceded Islam by 2000 years or so.
> 
> 
> 
> Below is a more aesthetic and organic building designed by the late Iraqi-origin architect Zaha Hadid :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I am sure modern architects can comfortably construct the unaesthetic and unnecessary intricate architecture you show.


Nice one... Will it survive for 50 yrs...

You are no one to pass judgement on aesthetics and necessasity... Enjoy/ admire if you can learn something from it, learn else leave it...

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## jamahir

Vanamali said:


> Your type of guys are the reason for Islamophobia...



@HalfMoon is not a Muslim. I think he's from the BJP IT Cell who is here to create a bad impression of Indian Muslims and sow conflict.



Vanamali said:


> Nice one... Will it survive for 50 yrs...



Maybe it will survive, maybe not.



Vanamali said:


> You are no one to pass judgement on aesthetics and necessasity... Enjoy/ admire if you can learn something from it, learn else leave it...



Surely as a human I am allowed my opinion.


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## 21st Century Vampire

Vapnope said:


> I have noticed that Buddhist stupas are different than Hindu temples i mean the architecture wise



That's due to different influences (perhaps the tumuli)

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## Anik101

Dilwara temple, Rajasthan










Details of pillar and doorjamb from Kiradu Temple Complex, Barmer Dated: ~11th century CE

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## Suriya

_Woman Writing a Letter_
_ 
10th Century A.D ( 1000 Years Old ) 
_
_Chandela Dynasty, Khajuraho, Madhya Pradesh_

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## Suriya

_"Shiva,The Cosmic Dancer." _


All his various dance postures symbolise the creation, preservation and destruction of the Universe.

Mahadev Shiva Pratima in Meenakshi Amman Temple ,Madurai, Tamil Nadu

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## Suriya

_I am sure, you have no adjectives to explain this intricacy”._
_
This is a small portion of Shikhara of “Udayeshwar Mahadev Mandir”, Udaipur near Ganj Basoda, Madhya Pradesh_

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## Andhadhun

Pune,

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## Bossman

Why do some Indian temples have sculptures of beastiality?


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## Andhadhun

Bossman said:


> Why do some Indian temples have sculptures of beastiality?



Its descriptive, not prescriptive. Asura behavior. 


Tughlaqabad Fort


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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

jamahir said:


> And India as of 2020 is the 6th largest economy in the world. But does that matter in actuality ? A majority of Indians generally live and die in miserable conditions and many don't even question that. As our Chinese member @TaiShang put it :
> 
> *By the way, Hinduism is as foreign to India as Islam. Hinduism just preceded Islam by 2000 years or so.*





The Brahmanistic part of Hinduism?----------->Sure it may have come from outside..The haoma/yajna fire rituals of the Brahmin............But 90 percent plus of Hinduism such as Idols, temple construction, lores etc come from people that deep roots in India for tens of thousands of years ....

And even regarding the Brahmanical part of Hinduism, the Vedas were composed within the subcontinent (in and around Haryana) after the Brahmins moved in there


Most of the Hindu Gods are Dravidians according to scholars..We donot venerate Aryan Gods such as Indra,Varuna etc...There is a huge preponderance of the female Goddess in Hinduism..which is also not a feature of Brahmanism 

not to say Buddhism,Jainism completely originated in India


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## Chhatrapati

jamahir said:


> By the way, Hinduism is as foreign to India as Islam. Hinduism just preceded Islam by 2000 years or so.


You like it or not, you're wrong. The first texts in Hinduism talk about rivers in India, not the Nile. That should pretty much solve the "origin". Almost everything that's mentioned in Rig Veda is associated with the subcontinent.


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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

Chhatrapati said:


> You like it or not, you're wrong. The first texts in Hinduism talk about rivers in India, not the Nile. That should pretty much solve the "origin". Almost everything that's mentioned in Rig Veda is associated with the subcontinent.




the farthest west the rig veda goes are the eastern most rivers of afghanistan...Heck in the Battle of the Ten Kings...Sudas's army crosses the rivers from east to west


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## jamahir

Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> But 90 percent plus of Hinduism such as Idols, temple construction, lores etc come from people that deep roots in India for tens of thousands of years ....



1. Perhaps that explains the difference in temple architecture of Kashmir, Gujarat etc when compared to rest of India.

2. "Tens of thousands of years". I think that's not correct, even taking into account the views of people like Kancha Ilaiah whose cultures pre-dated Brahminical Hinduism and had indigenous gods.



Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> And even regarding the Brahmanical part of Hinduism, the Vedas were composed within the subcontinent (in and around Haryana) after the Brahmins moved in there



I see.



Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> We donot venerate Aryan Gods such as Indra,Varuna etc...



But aren't some or many Hindu gods incarnations of Aryan gods ?



Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> There is a huge preponderance of the female Goddess in Hinduism..which is also not a feature of Brahmanism



A deviation on my part. There are goddesses in Hinduism with elaborate rituals to celebrate them yet human Hindu women find life a difficult thing culturally.



Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> not to say Buddhism,Jainism completely originated in India



I will argue that Buddhism was a reaction to Brahmincal oppression the same way that Communism was partly a reaction to European Capitalism.



Chhatrapati said:


> Almost everything that's mentioned in Rig Veda is associated with the subcontinent.



@Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 has explained that above.


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## Hiptullha



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## Paul2

Hiptullha said:


> View attachment 726109

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## Hiptullha

Paul2 said:


>



Incredible, isn't it? Here's another incredible ancient Hindu sculpture!

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## Andhadhun

Our sages our ancient scientists elaborated the stages of foetus development in the Garbha Upanishad taught 1000s of years ago.

Millennials later modern science confirms this. 

The stages were carved by our ancestors on our temples centuries before West had an idea what an embryo is. This is from the Sri Varamoortheeswarar Temple built in the 5th Century. 

Detailing Human Fertilization process !!!

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## Surya 1

forgive for debiation but we have some marvelous modern architech as well

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## Surya 1



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## Suriya

_*Our ancestors created magic. They carved on stone what other people couldn't draw on paper...




*_

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## Maula Jatt

Hiptullha said:


> Incredible, isn't it? Here's another incredible ancient Hindu sculpture!
> View attachment 726193


Oh boy...


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## Suriya

*Without knowledge of geometry, mathematics, physics, engineering, how is it possible? Our ancestors had all of this and more
*


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## Maula Jatt

Andhadhun said:


> Our sages our ancient scientists elaborated the stages of foetus development in the Garbha Upanishad taught 1000s of years ago.
> 
> Millennials later modern science confirms this.
> 
> The stages were carved by our ancestors on our temples centuries before West had an idea what an embryo is. This is from the Sri Varamoortheeswarar Temple built in the 5th Century.
> 
> Detailing Human Fertilization process !!!


Interesting


Suriya said:


> *Without knowledge of geometry, mathematics, physics, engineering, how is it possible? Our ancestors had all of this and more*
> 
> 
> View attachment 798775
> 
> 
> View attachment 798776


Can you give links too for research, thanks


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## Suriya

Hiptullha said:


> Incredible, isn't it? Here's another incredible ancient Hindu sculpture!
> View attachment 726193





Sainthood 101 said:


> Oh boy...


You see the woman in the middle with hands covering her face in shame.

This particular sculpture depicts about a time when debauchery ruled in the society. You would find different themes sculpted on the outer wall of ancient Hindu temples all telling some sort of stories.

But without the the context behind the sculpture, this would be seen merely as sexual acts as understood many Pakistanis here.


Sainthood 101 said:


> Interesting
> 
> Can you give links too for research, thanks


*The Chand Baori Well*

Built 1000+ years ago in the Abhaneri village of Rajasthan.
64 ft deep, 13 floors, And has 3,500 narrow steps arranged in perfect symmetry!

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## Suriya

*if not hammer n chisel, then how ???








 The largest religious monument in the World. 
Angkor Wat( Cambodia)- The Temple of Bhagwan Vishnu *


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## Suriya

Modhera’s iconic Sun Temple. 
Built around 1000 years back but the magnificent Temple is still standing with all its glory. 
If this is the view after the destruction by Mahmud Ghazni, imagine the original grandeur !


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## Maira La

newb3e said:


> its amazing how ancient folks build such amazing structures without modern machines!



Tens of thousands of slaves and 10-20 years of work.


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## Andhadhun

When even the Gods approve,

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## Andhadhun

xeuss said:


> Is this the Banana Tree that Ganesha married?



Art is like a Rorschach test. 

It brings our YOUR psychological interpretation, personality characteristics and emotional functioning. 

So if what you saw was marriage then its time you questioned your life choices.


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## Andhadhun

xeuss said:


> It was a simple question. Is this the Banana tree that Ganesha married? Yes or no?



It was a simple answer too. Designed to help you deal with your life. Ganesha would have approved.


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## xeuss

Andhadhun said:


> It was a simple answer too. Designed to help you deal with your life. Ganesha would have approved.



So when will you marry a banana tree like your Ganesha? I am sure Ganesha would approve of you frolicking with a banana....tree that is.

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## Andhadhun

xeuss said:


> So when will you marry a banana tree like your Ganesha? I am sure Ganesha would approve of you frolicking with a banana....tree that is.



So now you are interested in My love life too. A complete stranger. 

Interesting. 

Have you considered getting help ? Don't be stingy, go for a good expensive one. You may need all the help you can get. Get well soon.


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## Joe Shearer

tman786 said:


> Designs look hellish to me


Avert your gaze. Don't look.



Salza said:


> btw what is inside these temples. heard that hindus, over the years/centuries are depositing gold in them


There are two, known for rumours of these practices. One is the fabulously rich Sree Padmanabhaswamy Temple in Trivandrum; the other is the Sri Venkateswara Temple in Tirupati.

Presumably, your remark was made in a mocking spirit, so let us leave it at that.

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## Joe Shearer

Baby Leone said:


> nice and hope these are preserved by indian govt and also try to preserve Islamic architects if any left from Hindu extremists.
> 
> No, they are busy in destroying everything non hindu.


From the point of view of a liberal, secular-minded Hindu, they are busy destroying Hindu things as well, and substituting a rotten melange of half-baked beliefs and full-blown hatred of 'the other'.



Saho said:


> Was it always visible or has it been discovered recently in the last 100 years?


Depends. Some were active and in use. Others were in disrepair, and were only 'discovered', and cleaned up in recent years.



Indus Pakistan said:


> No.
> 
> Yes and no. Yes, we share common history with all humanity.
> 
> Just because we should appreciate Indian art should not be used to now sing the "we be same" songs please. I have absolutely no ancestry with a Bihari, Madya Pradeshi, a Tamil a Bengali beyond the common human link we all have.


Fair enough. But it is more intricate than that. This is a thread started by @Suriya, and it would impolite to take the conversation away from what he has to show. In a general sense, however, much more can be said. Some other time, some other thread.

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## Suriya

fitpOsitive said:


> Are you guys building something like that nowadays?


The best one built in last 20 years would be 
Swaminarayan Akshardham temple, New Delhi​

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## RescueRanger

Beautiful, thank you for sharing.


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## Maula Jatt

SecularNationalist said:


> And I think that should make us feel proud as well.
> We have our differences in modern age and later our ancestors have chosen a different path but at some point those who built that amazing architecture were also our ancestors.
> We share a common history.


I would have said that but more I grew up I realized how a lot of this same to same is exploitative in nature (true or not is a different debate)
Although I admit I find some of these temples breath takingly beautiful


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## Indos

Sainthood 101 said:


> I would have said that but more I grew up I realized how a lot of this same to same is exploitative in nature (true or not is a different debate)
> Although I admit I find these temples breath taking



Why there is no big and ancient Hindu temple in Pakistan like in Prambanan temple in Indonesia ?


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## Maula Jatt

Indos said:


> Why there is no big and ancient Hindu temple in Pakistan like in Prambanan temple in Indonesia ?


Plenty of temples in Pak but they're not active
This is the most beautiful one from Midland Pakistan and it used to operate back in the day mostly for Hindu relgious tourism but since our relationship is pretty much rock bottom rn so it's empty except for some tourist folks 
Situated in salt range I especially like this lake (apparently it's considered holy afaik) 









 Active temples are only in southern regions though as there are no Hindus in north except for some small villages here and there

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## Indos

Sainthood 101 said:


> Plenty of temples in Pak but they're not active
> 
> Active temples are only in southern regions though as there are no Hindus in north except for some small villages here and there



Well, in Indonesia Prambanan temple is also not active if you mean in religious term, Hindu in Indonesia is concentrated in Bali island, Prambanan temples is more toward tourism.

Look the visitors are all Muslim...

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## Maula Jatt

This is in Urdu by Pak-hindu YouTuber and Thier trip to Hinglaj temple 




Temples name is Hinglaj maata mandir, situated in a literal cave of Balochistan 
Devotees have to walk for miles to reach this temple (because of relgious reasons- devotee must walk to the temple) 
Not exactly "beautiful" but intresting because of it's location

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## Paitoo

Indos said:


> Well, in Indonesia Prambanan temple is also not active if you mean in religious term, Hindu in Indonesia is concentrated in Bali island, Prambanan temples is more toward tourism.
> 
> Look the visitors are all Muslim...



In India, any former religious place that has been taken over by the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) ceases to be a place of worship because the government, which is officially secular cannot be managing religious places. It is turned into a tourist place, which people from all religions can visit. Perhaps it is the same in the case of Indonesia / Prambanan temples.

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## Indos

DrJekyll said:


> In India, any former religious place that has been taken over by the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) ceases to be a place of worship because the government, which is officially secular cannot be managing religious places. It is turned into a tourist place, which people from all religions can visit. Perhaps it is the same in the case of Indonesia / Prambanan temples.



Yup, Prambanan is under government or maybe local government control. The fact that not many Hindu left living in Java island make it more like 100 % tourist site, while for Borobudur, despite Central Government who owned and managed it, but Budish believers still do some religious activities there, despite Borobudur is an important and famous tourist site in Indonesia.

You can see many people in Borobudur are all tourist, whether domestic or international tourists

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## Paitoo

Sainthood 101 said:


> View attachment 820296
> I am not too sure but I think this is an active one from Karachi



No, this is Brihadeeswara temple in Tanjore (Thanjavur) in Tamil Nadu

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## Maula Jatt

DrJekyll said:


> No, this is Brihadeeswara temple in Tanjore (Thanjavur) in Tamil Nadu


Lol some people really be making this into a tourist spot to visit in Karachi
With address on the internet and everything 

I wonder if anyone actually followed that address for a weekend tourist spot to visit 🤣 


https://m.facebook.com/karachi021/photos/shivaharkaray-or-karavipur-is-a-shakti-peeth-dedicated-to-the-hindu-goddess-durg/646812898810403/?_se_imp=0vBbPM4MpoO9vyPxa

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## Paitoo

Sainthood 101 said:


> Lol some people really be making this into a tourist spot to visit in Karachi
> With address on the internet and everything
> 
> I wonder if anyone actually followed that address for a weekend tourist spot to visit 🤣



Happens. Once my wife and I were looking to visit some secluded churches in Goa. Did some R&D on google, narrowed down on one and set the navigation. Towards the end of the drive we realised something is wrong. We ended up inside a dockyard, and surprisingly no one stopped us. Maybe it was the confidence (out of ignorance )

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## Maula Jatt

@Suriya can we add Buddhist temples or it needs to be Hindu?
We have some very beautiful Buddhist temples here in Pak, we were a ancient Buddhist powerhouse and had whole Buddhist universities, temples and civillization here


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## Joe Shearer

DrJekyll said:


> No, this is Brihadeeswara temple in Tanjore (Thanjavur) in Tamil Nadu


Did it get deleted?


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## Maula Jatt

Joe Shearer said:


> Did it get deleted?


I did but gave a Facebook link later on


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## Joe Shearer

Sainthood 101 said:


> I did but gave a Facebook link later on


Oh, OK.


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## Paitoo

@Sainthood 101 Don't see why it should be a problem, but I will leave it to the OP. Hindu, Buddhist and Jain temples have co-existed in the past, there photos can co-exist too! Here is a photo from my own trip to Ajanta and Ellora some 10 years back. The various cave temples you see in this photo are a mix of Hindu, Buddhist and Jain. Kings, especially in peninsular India patronised all religions of the time to keep their populations happy.


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## Joe Shearer

Sainthood 101 said:


> I did but gave a Facebook link later on


Oh, OK.


Suriya said:


> 21.
> 
> _Ellora caves, kailasa temple _
> View attachment 688753
> 
> 
> I don't think knowledge of ancient art and architecture exist today.
> We may built another beautiful temple today e,g a new one at Ayodhya but I don't think it could match artistic intricacies of the old era.


There is a new Swaminarayan Temple in Gujarat, that is quite elaborate, but personally, I didn't much care for it. 

The ISKCON people have built extensively at Mayapur, in West Bengal, but it reflects the heavy western orientation of that sect. 

Incidentally, ISKCON are in a line of religious heritage that is quite authentic, however we may be taken aback by those very enthusiastic people who have discovered it in mid-life.

The best that I know of are the Birla temples in Calcutta and in Hyderabad, that are somehow much more satisfying in architectural terms than others.

I have pictures, but I think @Suriya should consent to their being put up.


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## Maula Jatt

DrJekyll said:


> @Sainthood 101 Don't see why it should be a problem. Hindu, Buddhist and Jain temples have co-existed in the past, there photos can co-exist too! Here is a photo from my own trip to Ajanta and Ellora some 10 years back. The various cave temples you see in this photo are a mix of Hindu, Buddhist and Jain. Kings, especially in peninsular India patronised all religions of the time to keep their populations happy.
> 
> View attachment 820299


Alright @Suriya I'll delete it if you think it's off-topic 
This is the oldest Buddhist temple in the world 
older than anywhere in India, China or even Buddhist countries 
Situated in Swat Khyber pakhtunkhwa 
















This may be one of the oldest Buddhist temples ever discovered


It was built within a few hundred years of the death of the founder of Buddhism, Siddhārtha Gautama.




www.livescience.com

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## Maula Jatt

Mohra moradu - Buddhist monastery near taxilla (Pindi/Islamabad)

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## Suriya

Sainthood 101 said:


> @Suriya can we add Buddhist temples or it needs to be Hindu?
> We have some very beautiful Buddhist temples here in Pak, we were a ancient Buddhist powerhouse and had whole Buddhist universities, temples and civillization here


I would like to keep it only Hindu and Hinduism related. Adding Buddhist structures would mess it up. India has some exquisite old Jain temples still I didn't add them in this thread.

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## Maula Jatt

Suriya said:


> I would like to keep it only Hindu and Hinduism related. Adding Buddhist structures would mess it up. India has some exquisite old Jain temples still I didn't add them in this thread.


Alright buddy, no problem I'll stop


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## Suriya

Joe Shearer said:


> Oh, OK.
> 
> There is a new Swaminarayan Temple in Gujarat, that is quite elaborate, but personally, I didn't much care for it.
> 
> The ISKCON people have built extensively at Mayapur, in West Bengal, but it reflects the heavy western orientation of that sect.
> 
> Incidentally, ISKCON are in a line of religious heritage that is quite authentic, however we may be taken aback by those very enthusiastic people who have discovered it in mid-life.
> 
> The best that I know of are the Birla temples in Calcutta and in Hyderabad, that are somehow much more satisfying in architectural terms than others.
> 
> I have pictures, but I think @Suriya should consent to their being put up.


Let's keep about old Hindu temples built before 100 years or before 20th century.

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## satyamev

Indos said:


> Well, in Indonesia Prambanan temple is also not active if you mean in religious term, Hindu in Indonesia is concentrated in Bali island, Prambanan temples is more toward tourism.
> 
> Look the visitors are all Muslim...


I was in Bali in nov19. 
It's more hindu than my present 98 % hindu town.
Hindu shrines all over the city. Hindu symbols in front of shops , on the ground, everywhere. 
The roundabouts have massive sculptures from the ramayana and mahabharata. 
The airport has sanskrit signs.
Most of the above would not be allowed in government controlled areas of secular India. 
Buddhist sculptures are more acceptable in Indian airports, etc.

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## Joe Shearer

Suriya said:


> Let's keep about old Hindu temples built before 100 years or before 20th century.


Nothing that I know of that age. That is, pre-20th century, post say 18th.


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## Joe Shearer

Suriya said:


> Let's keep about old Hindu temples built before 100 years or before 20th century.


To be honest, I have nothing on store that is as beautifully photographed as those that you have showed. I have only pictures that I used in a presentation to my school alumnus group on ancient Hindu architecture. Would those be appropriate?


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## Joe Shearer

Sainthood 101 said:


> Alright buddy, no problem I'll stop


@Suriya has a point.

At the same time, I'd like to see those remnants that are within Pakistan. You feel like starting a different thread?

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## Maula Jatt

Joe Shearer said:


> @Suriya has a point.
> 
> At the same time, I'd like to see those remnants that are within Pakistan. You feel like starting a different thread?


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...-lost-civilizations-and-hidden-relics.734921/ 
?

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## Joe Shearer

Sainthood 101 said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...-lost-civilizations-and-hidden-relics.734921/
> ?


Sounds Looks good. 

Have you posted there already, or do you plan to? Or are you suggesting I might find it a nice thread to browse?


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## Maula Jatt

Joe Shearer said:


> Sounds Looks good.
> 
> Have you posted there already, or do you plan to? Or are you suggesting I might find it a nice thread to browse?


I'll probably start a new thread.

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## Joe Shearer

Sainthood 101 said:


> I'll probably start a new thread.


Do, please. Waiting.


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## RPK



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## RPK



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## Suriya

Joe Shearer said:


> To be honest, I have nothing on store that is as beautifully photographed as those that you have showed. I have only pictures that I used in a presentation to my school alumnus group on ancient Hindu architecture. Would those be appropriate?


Absolutely welcome.

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## Joe Shearer

This presentation was about the beautiful, majestic Martand Temple, whose ruins are to be seen in Kashmir.

In order to explain to my audience what they were about to see, it seemed to be a good idea to show them the classic temple architecture, and then, by century, oldest to those closest to the Martand Temple, that was probably built sometime around 735 CE.

This is the temple as it is, today.






...and this is a reconstruction of what it might have been like, when it was in use.





The earlier view was taken, facing it, and looking 'inside'.

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## Suriya

Galageshwara Temple at Galaganath village in the Haveri district of Karnataka.

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## Andhadhun

Shri Shantadurga Temple is an Epitome of Ancient roots of Sanatan Dharma in Goa

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## Suriya

*Rani ki Vav - An example of Flamboyant architecture & true woman power in Bharat. Built by Rani Udayamati between 1022 and 1063 AD. The step well designed as an inverted Temple highlighting the sanctity of water, divided into 7 levels of stairs with sculptural panels.*

















>> Who made this ? An engineer, an architect, mathematician or a devotee ?

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## Wiler87

1 face -5bodies in different positions,but looks like the the face belongs to each body individually

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## Surya 1

Suriya said:


> *Rani ki Vav - An example of Flamboyant architecture & true woman power in Bharat. Built by Rani Udayamati between 1022 and 1063 AD. The step well designed as an inverted Temple highlighting the sanctity of water, divided into 7 levels of stairs with sculptural panels.*
> 
> 
> View attachment 835883
> 
> 
> View attachment 835878
> 
> View attachment 835879
> 
> 
> 
> >> Who made this ? An engineer, an architect, mathematician or a devotee ?




These architectures are difficult to replicate even today by all modern technologies. They were built to last for thousans of years. Many of them were built when the rest of world were living in cave age.


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## Andhadhun

For those who thought Taj Mahal is the only White Wonder in India,

Swaminarayan Mandir(Bhuj)

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## Ajamal

FlashGordon said:


> These things are built only when you reach a level of prosperity ..
> 
> When you live to survive another day, creativity goes for a toss..




True. Some Great Mosques were built in Gujarat in past during the Muslim Ruler time.





Look at the fine curving in stone. Only one of its kind.

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