# Type 052D DDG revealed



## cirr

The first ship&#65288;in the left hangar&#65289;is scheduled for launch next week&#65306;







Take a closer look&#65306;

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## OrionHunter

It's so stealthy, I can't even see it! Jeeez!

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## cirr

C5&#12289;C6&#65288;5# and 6#&#65289;&#12289;D1&#12289;D2&#65288;7# and 8#&#65289;&#65306;






D1&#65288;7#&#65289;&#12289;D2&#65288;8#&#65289; and D3&#65288;9#&#65289;&#65306;






D2&#65288;left&#65292;8#&#65289;and 2 Cs&#65306;






all of which mean that we are gonna get first glimpses of the 12500 ton Type 055 DDG in 2014&#65292;the work on which will start prior to the completion of the last few of the 8 052Ds that have been ordered&#12290;&#12290;

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## skyknight

New 130mm main gun.

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## cirr

A next-generation AESA radar system&#12290;

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## Beast

The gun turret looks different than the current one. It shall be the Type052D destroyer.

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## j20blackdragon

052C






052D

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## Bombay Dude

The Engines would be Imported.

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## Akasa

The Type 052D is too small.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Bombay Dude said:


> The Engines would be Imported.



If they would import the engine, then there would be no Type 052D DDG, they would still stick with the first two Type 052C DDGs.

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## skyknight

Bombay Dude said:


> The Engines would be Imported.


Nope&#65292;
It is the same with newly-built 052C (Chinese domestic QC280 x2)

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## ChineseTiger1986

SinoSoldier said:


> The Type 052D is too small.



It is still larger than the Type 052C, and only 4 ships will be built before the coming of the Type 055 DDG.

Its 48+16 grid hot launch VLS is much better than the 36+12 revolver cold launch VLS of the Type 052C.

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## skyknight

SinoSoldier said:


> The Type 052D is too small.


That is because QC180 still needs tests.
We will see our 10000ton 055 DDG after maybe 4 052D completed.

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## Oldman1

cirr said:


> C5&#12289;C6&#65288;5# and 6#&#65289;&#12289;D1&#12289;D2&#65288;7# and 8#&#65289;&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D1&#65288;7#&#65289;&#12289;D2&#65288;8#&#65289; and D3&#65288;9#&#65289;&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D2&#65288;left&#65292;8#&#65289;and 2 Cs&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all of which mean that we are gonna get first glimpses of the 12500 ton Type 055 DDG in 2014&#65292;the work on which will start prior to the completion of the last few of the 8 052Ds that have been ordered&#12290;&#12290;



Jesus! 12,500 tons? Our Burkes are only 11,000 tons displacement. Whats its dimensions?


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## KRAIT

Can India import these....


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## Akasa

skyknight said:


> That is because QC180 still needs tests.
> We will see our 10000ton 055 DDG after maybe 4 052D completed.



Ok, where did anyone say anything about a Type 055, which will most likely use QC280?


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## HongWu

Bombay Dude said:


> The Engines would be Imported.


someone is burning with inferiority complex

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## Beast

SinoSoldier said:


> The Type 052D is too small.



If they replace the cold launch rotary VLS type with Square box VLS, the missile capacity will increase greatly even with its the same shape and size.

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## ChineseTiger1986

skyknight said:


> That is because QC180 still needs tests.
> We will see our 10000ton 055 DDG after maybe 4 052D completed.



People are too hasty to see China's own Arleigh Burke DDG on steroid, however the only countries have the monopoly on the warship propulsion are US and UK, they have decades of experience, while we are trying to catch up.

To have our Type 055 DDG in 2014-2015 is already ahead of the schedule.

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## skyknight

SinoSoldier said:


> Ok, where did anyone say anything about a Type 055, which will most likely use QC280?


Not QC280, 055 will use 4x QC180 gas turbine

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## Beast

HongWu said:


> someone is burning with inferiority complex



Correct. Kanwa already reported China master the Q280 engine origin from UKarine 2 years ago. If its imported. Serial production of Type052 destroyer will never started.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Jesus! 12,500 tons? Our Burkes are only 11,000 tons displacement. Whats its dimensions?



I think the coming Type 055 DDG will be comparable to Arleigh Burke flight III, it is a very realistic estimation.

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## Bombay Dude

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If they would import the engine, then there would be no Type 052D DDG, they would still stick with the first two Type 052C DDGs.



Last Heard China Imported Ukranian Gas Turbines for the previous classes.

Also China has no known Marine Propulsion Technology.

If there is one, Which Core does it use?



KRAIT said:


> Can India import these....



P15B is Far More Superior and can take on any Chinese Ship on a Ship to Ship Basis.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> Correct. Kanwa already reported China master the Q280 engine origin from UKarine 2 years ago. If its imported. Serial production of Type052 destroyer will never started.



And for the coming Type 055 DDG, no one could help us in the ship propulsion, if we can't close the gap with US & UK in this domain, then no way we could launch this project.

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## Akasa

Bombay Dude said:


> P15B is Far More Superior and can take on any Chinese Ship on a Ship to Ship Basis.



Wrong. The P-15B doesn't even have long range air defense missiles that can compare with the HHQ-9 on the 052C and we have yet to see a 400 km anti ship missile on any of those.

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## Beast

Bombay Dude said:


> Last Heard China Imported Ukranian Gas Turbines for the previous classes.
> 
> Also China has no known Marine Propulsion Technology.
> 
> If there is one, Which Core does it use?
> 
> 
> 
> P15B is Far More Superior and can take on any Chinese Ship on a Ship to Ship Basis.



That is because you refuse to accept the truth and look for new source. Your last heard is 5 years ago, isn't it? Haha...

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## Akasa

skyknight said:


> Not QC280, 055 will use 4x QC180 gas turbine



Who mentioned the Type 055 in the first place, in those military forums?


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## ChineseTiger1986

SinoSoldier said:


> Who mentioned the Type 055 in the first place, in those military forums?



Google "HSH Shanghai"


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## skyknight

Bombay Dude said:


> Last Heard China Imported Ukranian Gas Turbines for the previous classes.
> 
> Also China has no known Marine Propulsion Technology.
> 
> If there is one, Which Core does it use?
> 
> 
> 
> P15B is Far More Superior and can take on any Chinese Ship on a Ship to Ship Basis.


 What is P15B&#65311; A hull floating in the water&#65311;

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## Bombay Dude

> Wrong. The P-15B doesn't even have long range air defense missiles that can compare with the HHQ-9 on the 052C and we have yet to see a 400 km anti ship missile on any of those.



I said Ship to Ship Basis i.e. P15B Pitted against a Flotilla with the Type 052D DDG as the Flagship.


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## skyknight

SinoSoldier said:


> Wrong. The P-15B doesn't even have long range air defense missiles that can compare with the HHQ-9 on the 052C and we have yet to see a 400 km anti ship missile on any of those.


India only builds a hull&#65292;and all the propulsion and electronic and weapon system are imported from the other countries&#65292;
If they can get the most advanced systems from USA&#65292;I admit it maybe better than 052D&#65292;
However they cannot make it&#12290;

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## Akasa

Bombay Dude said:


> I said Ship to Ship Basis i.e. P15B Pitted against a Flotilla with the Type 052D DDG as the Flagship.



Ship to ship basis the P15B lacks firepower even against the older generation of destroyers.

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## Beast

Bombay Dude said:


> I said Ship to Ship Basis i.e. P15B Pitted against a Flotilla with the Type 052D DDG as the Flagship.



Somebody is getting emotional here. Hard truth is hard to swallow for some. 

Let me educate you on Type 052C alone.

Type 052C destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## KRAIT

Any info on expected cost, US new DDGs will cost around $2 billion and as far as I think, China will go by overwhelming fleet of these new DDGs with less cost.


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## HongWu

With 64 hot launch cells, it is enough for our purpose. We don't need 90 like the Arleigh Burke. We need to crank up the production and dominate the South China Sea and East China Sea now. This will be the ideal escort for the Varyag and the domestic conventional propulsion carriers.

Now all we need to see is the Type 095 SSN and all the pieces fall into place!

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## KRAIT

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I know it is not ok to be rude with you, but some of your countrymen should stop burning out of their jealousy.


I can't control other posters buddy, if I cross a line, do let me know.....I am here to know more about defense and healthy debates. Few posters on both side derail the thread, and I think even you hate it. 

BTW appreciate your response.

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## ChineseTiger1986

KRAIT said:


> Any info on expected cost, US new DDGs will cost around $2 billion and as far as I think, China will go by overwhelming fleet of these new DDGs with less cost.



Each Type 052D should cost about 1 billion USD, you cannot make the stuff that costs only 1/10 in the domain of the high technology.



HongWu said:


> With 64 hot launch cells, it is enough for our purpose. We don't need 90 like the Arleigh Burke. We need to crank up the production and dominate the South China Sea and East China Sea now. This will be the ideal escort for the Varyag and the domestic conventional propulsion carriers.
> 
> Now all we need to see is the Type 095 SSN and all the pieces fall into place!



The late Type 055 DDG gonna have a lot of hot launch cells just like the latest Arleigh Burke DDG, since these beasts are going to play role as the escort guardians of our future CVN.

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## Bombay Dude

SinoSoldier said:


> Ship to ship basis the P15B lacks firepower even against the older generation of destroyers.



A Hypersonic Cruise Missile Brahmos or even a Klub with Terminal Phase Supersonic Warhead is enough to take on any Chinese ship.

A Salvo of Couple launched would be like Fire and Forget Missile. 

Why are you trying to hijack General Patton's words?


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## KRAIT

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Each Type 052D should cost about 1 billion USD, you cannot make the stuff that costs only 1/10 in the domain of the high technology.


$ 1 billion seems logical. You are right, when we are talking about state of the art weaponry, its hard to cut back the cost.

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## Beast

Bombay Dude said:


> A Hypersonic Cruise Missile Brahmos or even a Klub with Terminal Phase Supersonic Warhead is enough to take on any Chinese ship.
> 
> A Salvo of Couple launched would be like Fire and Forget Missile.
> 
> Why are you trying to hijack General Patton's words?



Your Brahmos can't even hit us in the first place if both ship are 400km apart. What is there to talk about? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-602

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## skyknight

KRAIT said:


> You are one hell of troll. Seriously, can't you control yourself from verbal diarrhea.........
> 
> *POST REPORTED*
> 
> Appreciate it buddy. Can you post more about these destroyers...


It is said to be launched in the next week&#65292;more photos and details are coming on the way&#12290;

The main change will be&#65306;
64 unit VLS (For HHQ-9B and YJ-62 missile&#65292;maybe anti-submarine missile too)&#65292;new APAR&#65288;liquid cooling &#65292;flat and bigger&#65289;&#65292;
new130mm main gun&#65292; the helicopter hangar will be change to the middle&#65288;052C is in the left side&#65289;

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## SEAL

KRAIT said:


> Any info on expected cost, US new DDGs will cost around $2 billion and as far as I think, China will go by overwhelming fleet of these new DDGs with less cost.



052C
800-900million$.

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## ao333

Bombay Dude said:


> I said Ship to Ship Basis i.e. P15B Pitted against a Flotilla with the Type 052D DDG as the Flagship.



It's shameful for Chinese to have imported turbines for its previous destroyer classes, but an object of pride, when the most advanced Indian destroyer uses Russian turbines, Israeli radars, Israeli electronics, and missiles propelled by Russian rockets?

If there were to be an international embargo on India like in the 1990s, the Indians will complain again about how their military is "not ready" just like in 1962. After all, who can be ready with ships that stall on seas, blind against air raids and fire missiles that explode in the silo?

India: We take pride in importing all major ship systems for our flagships because we, Indians enjoy losing wars to foreign colonialists and love to be shamed by our Eastern neighbor whose capital is on the opposite side of the continent.

Military history of modern India: Complaining about unfair war practices since 19th century. We can't fight British riflemen with elephants! We can't fight mechanized Chinese infantries with 19th century Indian riflemen!

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## skyknight

HongWu said:


> With 64 hot launch cells, it is enough for our purpose. We don't need 90 like the Arleigh Burke. We need to crank up the production and dominate the South China Sea and East China Sea now. This will be the ideal escort for the Varyag and the domestic conventional propulsion carriers.
> 
> Now all we need to see is the Type 095 SSN and all the pieces fall into place!


in consideration of the displacement&#65288;restricted by the propulsion system&#65289;of 052D&#65292;
64 cells VLS is pretty good&#12290;
The most important thing is due to our powerful AESA radar and active homing HHQ-9 &#65292;
Its air-defence ability will be in the best 3&#12290;

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## Oldman1

HongWu said:


> With 64 hot launch cells, it is enough for our purpose. We don't need 90 like the Arleigh Burke. We need to crank up the production and dominate the South China Sea and East China Sea now. This will be the ideal escort for the Varyag and the domestic conventional propulsion carriers.
> 
> Now all we need to see is the Type 095 SSN and all the pieces fall into place!



You can never have enough. But as people say its limited to space on a warship. Cramming so much into ship to do everything from anti-satellite to missile defense to land attack to anti-ship to anti-submarine warfare, etc. Hence such rising costs. And I haven't got into installing rail gun and laser defense in the near future.

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## shahadat hussain

ao333 said:


> It's shameful for Chinese to have imported turbines for its previous destroyer classes, but an object of pride, when the most advanced Indian destroyer uses Russian turbines, Israeli radars, Israeli electronics, and missiles propelled by Russian rockets?
> 
> If there were to be an international embargo on India like* in the 1990s,* the Indians will complain again about how their military is "not ready" just like in 1962. After all, who can be ready with ships that stall on seas, blind against air raids and fire missiles that explode in the silo?
> 
> India: We take pride in importing all major ship systems for our flagships because we, Indians enjoy losing wars to foreign colonialists and love to be shamed by our Eastern neighbor whose capital is on the opposite side of the continent.
> 
> Military history of modern India: Complaining about unfair war practices since 19th century. We can't fight British riflemen with elephants! We can't fight mechanized Chinese infantries with 19th century Indian riflemen!



China was world's largest importer of weapons till '07 and still the biggest thief !! PERIOD !!

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## Martian2

Oldman1 said:


> You can never have enough. But as people say its limited to space on a warship. Cramming so much into ship to do everything from anti-satellite to missile defense to land attack to anti-ship to anti-submarine warfare, etc. Hence such rising costs. *And I haven't got into installing rail gun and laser defense in the near future.*



Your statement is not true.

I'm not sure about laser defense, but railgun technology won't be ready until 2035 at the earliest (see citation below).

----------

Here is an excerpt from my post last year:

3. Railgun - The U.S. railgun won't be ready until 2035. If China can't match U.S. railgun technology by 2035 then it is not worthy of being called a superpower. This is also a tie. China has at least 24 more years to catch the United States.

Railgun, Laser Weapon Lose Senate Funding, Face Uncertain Future | Fox News

"www.foxnews.com/.../*railgun-laser-weapon-lose-senate-funding*-fac...
Jun 20, 2011 &#8211; America's News HQ ... General Atomics tests the Blitzer railgun, a prototype weapon that fires slugs propelled by electromagnets ... But *the project wouldn't have been completed until 2035 at the earliest*, officials had said. ..."

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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> You can never have enough. But as people say its limited to space on a warship. Cramming so much into ship to do everything from anti-satellite to missile defense to land attack to anti-ship to anti-submarine warfare, etc. Hence such rising costs. And I haven't got into installing rail gun and laser defense in the near future.



Of course the bigger the better is, but you have solved the problem of the ship propulsion first.

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## KRAIT

shahadat hussain said:


> China was world's largest importer of weapons till '07 and still the biggest thief !! PERIOD !!


And what did we get by our so called indigenous development, when security of nation is concerned, think logically and rationally rather than taking it on ego and pride. One of the senior Air force officer asked DRDO to either copy, steal or do anything, just give AESA radar as soon as possible.

These type of arguments don't matter when you go on war with any country, deal with it and find the proper competitive answer.

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## ChineseTiger1986

I think they should give C3 and C4 to the North Sea Fleet instead of D1 and D2, since the East Sea Fleet is in the front line to defend our Diaoyu Island, they need the best gadget.

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## trinity

skyknight said:


> India only builds a hull&#65292;and all the propulsion and electronic and weapon system are imported from the other countries&#65292;
> If they can get the most advanced systems from USA&#65292;I admit it maybe better than 052D&#65292;
> However they cannot make it&#12290;




Yup India should have copied systems from wherever it could steal it from and then incorporate that knowledge into its own idustry......Also, don;t forget China started much earlier developing it Weapons Armament industry



KRAIT said:


> And what did we get by our so called indigenous development, when security of nation is concerned, think logically and rationally rather than taking it on ego and pride. One of the senior Air force officer asked DRDO to either copy, steal or do anything, just give AESA radar as soon as possible.
> 
> These type of arguments don't matter when you go on war with any country, deal with it and find the proper competitive answer.




Was that quote underneath your posts for me haha?


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## Akasa

Bombay Dude said:


> A Hypersonic Cruise Missile Brahmos or even a Klub with Terminal Phase Supersonic Warhead is enough to take on any Chinese ship.
> 
> A Salvo of Couple launched would be like Fire and Forget Missile.
> 
> Why are you trying to hijack General Patton's words?



Hypersonic missiles? The BrahMos doesn't even near that speed, and the "Klubs' you mentioned will only fall prey to the Type 730 CIWS and the FL-3000N, as well as the 200 km range HHQ-9, which is far more effective than the point defense missiles on the 15B. PLAN destroyers will possess first shoot advantage due to its YJ-62 missile, possessing a third more range than the BrahMos.

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## S10

Oldman1 said:


> Jesus! 12,500 tons? Our Burkes are only 11,000 tons displacement. Whats its dimensions?


That's just obsurd. The first two Type 052C were only about 6500 tons in displacement. The improved 052C should be about 7000. I doubt the new 052D would exceed 8000 since all of them basically share the same hull. Also, the breakthrough in propulsion was the fact that China managed to produce the Ukranian designed GT25000 turbine domestically.


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## KRAIT

trinity said:


> Was that quote underneath your posts for me haha?


Nope buddy, have you seen Matrix, when one agent dodges bullets,Trinity comes near him and shoots at point blank range after saying "Dodge this".


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## trinity

Martian2 said:


> Your statement is not true.
> 
> I'm not sure about laser defense, but railgun technology won't be ready until 2035 at the earliest (see citation below).
> 
> ----------
> 
> Here is an excerpt from my post last year:
> 
> 3. Railgun - The U.S. railgun won't be ready until 2035. If China can't match U.S. railgun technology by 2035 then it is not worthy of being called a superpower. This is also a tie. China has at least 24 more years to catch the United States.
> 
> Railgun, Laser Weapon Lose Senate Funding, Face Uncertain Future | Fox News
> 
> "www.foxnews.com/.../*railgun-laser-weapon-lose-senate-funding*-fac...
> Jun 20, 2011  America's News HQ ... General Atomics tests the Blitzer railgun, a prototype weapon that fires slugs propelled by electromagnets ... But *the project wouldn't have been completed until 2035 at the earliest*, officials had said. ..."




Like you stated funding is the only reason that China is even possibly able to close that gap in that alloted time frame. Stop being grandiose and delusional my friend. I dont mean that in a negative way, I think China if it can should try to be a superpower. The world wil benefit if there are more than one superpower as long as that superpower upholds certain principles which remain to be seen in China



KRAIT said:


> Nope buddy, have you seen Matrix, when one agent dodges bullets,Trinity comes near him and shoots at point blank range after saying "Dodge this".




Haha....I have. I was a little delusional to think it may have something to do with me haha. Hey let me ask you can you view my upload tread about Assam and illegals having proper documents? I was wondering if there is a block on such particular news or entire sites?


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## KRAIT

trinity said:


> k it may have something to do with me haha. Hey let me ask you can you view my upload tread about Assam and illegals having proper documents? I was wondering if there is a block on such particular news or entire sites?


Nope...but I will suggest not to upload anything about this topic, it has become very sensitive issue especially on forum world.


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## j20blackdragon

The main guns are totally different.

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## ChineseTiger1986

S10 said:


> That's just obsurd. The first two Type 052C were only about 6500 tons in displacement. The improved 052C should be about 7000. I doubt the new 052D would exceed 8000 since all of them basically share the same hull. Also, the breakthrough in propulsion was the fact that China managed to produce the Ukranian designed GT25000 turbine domestically.



According to the HSH forum, the Type 052D is a bit larger than the Type 052C++, more room for the chopper.

So i do agree that 8000 tons is the max displacement for the Type 052D, and they were initially not satisfied with the performance GT25000, that's why the only two Type 052Cs were built, and the performance of the domestic propulsion should be more adequate.

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## Oldman1

Martian2 said:


> Your statement is not true.
> 
> I'm not sure about laser defense, but railgun technology won't be ready until 2035 at the earliest (see citation below).
> 
> ----------
> 
> Here is an excerpt from my post last year:
> 
> 3. Railgun - The U.S. railgun won't be ready until 2035. If China can't match U.S. railgun technology by 2035 then it is not worthy of being called a superpower. This is also a tie. China has at least 24 more years to catch the United States.
> 
> Railgun, Laser Weapon Lose Senate Funding, Face Uncertain Future | Fox News
> 
> "www.foxnews.com/.../*railgun-laser-weapon-lose-senate-funding*-fac...
> Jun 20, 2011  America's News HQ ... General Atomics tests the Blitzer railgun, a prototype weapon that fires slugs propelled by electromagnets ... But *the project wouldn't have been completed until 2035 at the earliest*, officials had said. ..."



Actually it is true because we still be making Burkes for the next few decades so rail gun can be installed as well as laser defense system. Technology has progressed pretty fast pace.

Its better than distant future which I would say 2100 instead of 2035 which I deemed as near future.

As for laser defense...
U.S. Navy Laser Weapon Shoots Down Drone in Test. - YouTube

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## qwerrty

Beast said:


> If they replace the cold launch rotary VLS type with Square box VLS, the missile capacity will increase greatly even with its the same shape and size.


 
052C is NOT rotatry launch. each missile can launch from every tube like the land based version. three is no rotatry mechanism in the middle.






this is rotary launcher on 051C. you can see big revolver mechanism in middle and only *one exit* hatch..

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## ao333

shahadat hussain said:


> China was world's largest importer of weapons till '07 and still the biggest thief !! PERIOD !!



Why are Indians so angry when China isn't thieving from India? The backward South Asian "nation" can't even provide power to half of its 1.2 billion strong 1k per capita GDP, 3rd world democracy.

Try not to put down others' achievements, but learn from it instead. It makes you less superpower Indian, and more Japanese, the only non-Western success story in modern history.

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## Rocky rock

hmm waiting for this new deadly frigate hope that will surprise us all coz with it's stealthy body n new tech weapons soo exciting to see.. n i wish PN should buy these new tech frigate's except more of that F-22p well Congrate's chinese bro's...Good luck!

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## cirr

Bombay Dude said:


> The Engines would be Imported.



Import ur arse&#12290;The Engines are 100% Chinese made and have been so since DDG 171&#12290;

Pathetic sounding Indians&#12290;

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## cirr

Things that are to appear in the next 2-3 years&#65306;

CVs
LHDs
Type 055 DDGs
Type 054B FFGs
Submarines&#65292;both conventional and nuclear&#65288;both attack and strategic&#65289;
40000-ton plus auxiliary ships
Fast Combat Support ships
New VLS such as the one used onboard 052D
New missiles such as HQ-16G&#12289;HQ-9B&#65288;on 052D)&#12289;HQ-19&#12289;HQ-26&#65288;shipborne anti-missile system&#65289; etc&#12290;&#12290;
New in-water weapons such as the 200-knot plus torpedo
etc&#12290;etc&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;

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## cirr

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And for the coming Type 055 DDG, no one could help us in the ship propulsion, if we can't close the gap with US & UK in this domain, then no way we could launch this project.



It may not come in time for the 1st batch of the 055s&#65292;but Ma Weiming the genius and his team at NUE is doing a good job and I am sure his Full-Electric Propulsion system that has been under trials for several years, will find use on updated 055s within 5 years&#12290; And his magnetic catapult system for CVs of course.



Bombay Dude said:


> Last Heard China Imported Ukranian Gas Turbines for the previous classes.
> 
> Also China has no known Marine Propulsion Technology.
> 
> If there is one, Which Core does it use?
> 
> 
> 
> P15B is Far More Superior and can take on any Chinese Ship on a Ship to Ship Basis.



Heard of Prof. Ma Weiming and his team at NUEPLA? 

Learn Chinese and it will help you broaden your mind.

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## Hyperion

KRAIT said:


> And what did we get by our so called indigenous development, when security of nation is concerned, think logically and rationally rather than taking it on ego and pride. One of the senior Air force officer asked DRDO to either copy, steal or do anything, just give AESA radar as soon as possible.
> 
> These type of arguments don't matter when you go on war with any country, deal with it and find the proper competitive answer.



I totally agree.

I don't believe that patents and IP laws are applicable in anything that is defense related. Imagine US comes to India and Pakistan tomorrow and sues us for copying warhead design. 

"You dark people, you stole the teller-ulam model to achieve a fusion explosion"

OR

"You imbeciles, go make the neutron reflector out of Aluminum instead of Beryllium!"

.....SO ON AND SO FORTH!!!!

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## cirr

Bombay Dude said:


> A Hypersonic Cruise Missile Brahmos or even a Klub with Terminal Phase Supersonic Warhead is enough to take on any Chinese ship.
> 
> A Salvo of Couple launched would be like Fire and Forget Missile.
> 
> Why are you trying to hijack General Patton's words?



Your Mach 3 and 300-km Brahmos is trash in front of China's Mach 4 and 400-km plus JY-12. 

China is not India, the former is focused on doing things while the latter is enamoured of braggings.

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## no_name

Bridge is narrower at the front and wider on the sides, possibly for the bigger PAR.








[/IMG]

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## S10

The one thing I am jealous of is the British Type 45's all electric propulsion system, and that's something to aim for when designing the next generation destroyer. However, that's at least 10 years away from now. 052C and 052D will be the mainstay of PLAN until at least 2025.


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## ChineseTiger1986

S10 said:


> The one thing I am jealous of is the British Type 45's all electric propulsion system, and that's something to aim for when designing the next generation destroyer. However, that's at least 10 years away from now. 052C and 052D will be the mainstay of PLAN until at least 2025.



US & UK have the monopoly over the jet engine and the ship propulsion, we should feel good as the gap is closing.

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## Diamond_Gold

trinity said:


> Yup India *should have *copied systems from wherever it could steal it from and then incorporate that knowledge into its own idustry.....



You have just told us the biggest joke of the day i.e. Indian DON'T steal! LOLOL.... at the absolute level of incompetency, lying skill and hallcination.

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## Martian2

At Trinity,

Do you want me to give you a long list of citations where the Indian pharmaceutical industry STOLE from American pharmaceutical companies?

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## A1Kaid

HongWu said:


> With 64 hot launch cells, it is enough for our purpose. We don't need 90 like the Arleigh Burke. We need to crank up the production and dominate the South China Sea and East China Sea now. This will be the ideal escort for the Varyag and the domestic conventional propulsion carriers.
> 
> Now all we need to see is the Type 095 SSN and all the pieces fall into place!



Agreed with this assessment, Hong Wu Sir you never cease to amaze me. I think you must be trained in strategy, what academy were you educated in? I swear one of these days Hong Wu is going to become a great leader in the People's Republic, it is destiny.

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## thecurryguy

indian troll again, learn how to build DDG first, 8 years in the water without engines and weapon system OMG its a truly laughing stock of the world

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## sword1947

It seems that we will have something new to play on the South China Sea and the East Sea. We will see them trail soon. LOL

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## Beast

Martian2 said:


> At Trinity,
> 
> Do you want me to give you a long list of citations where the Indian pharmaceutical industry STOLE from American pharmaceutical companies?



BBC NEWS | Business | Kalashnikov upset by Indian 'copy'



> Kalashnikov upset by Indian 'copy'
> 
> The Russian company behind the world's most infamous rifle, the Kalashnikov AK-47, is up in arms over an alleged copy made by India's state weapons maker.
> Representatives from Izhmash, the gun's original manufacturer, discovered what they see as an Indian rip-off of the AK-47 at an arms fair in Delhi.
> 
> But India's Ordnance Factory Board says the weapon is different enough to count as a distinct design.
> 
> AK-47 copies are produced in dozens of countries, but only a handful have formally licensed it.
> 
> The row blew up, Izhmash representatives told Agence France Presse news agency, when the man who invented the AK-47 in World War II visited OFB's pavilion at the arms fair and saw what he thought was a copy of his brainchild.
> 
> "I don't see any permission being given to India to manufacture the rifle" and sell it for export, said Izhmash's Andrei Vishnyakov.
> 
> Russia is India's largest supplier of weapons - although not of AK-47s.
> 
> 'Threat'
> 
> The new weapon has yet to appear on OFB's website, which advertises products ranging from pistols to main battle tanks.
> 
> Still, OFB staff were keen to deny the accusation.
> 
> "The cocking mechanism is different, the lever has been changed and the barrel is chrome-plated," OFB gun designer Mohammad Ali told AFP.
> 
> For general manager MK Garg, Izhmash's complaint rests on a false premise.
> 
> "The Russian Kalashnikov was made in 1947 and no patent in the armament industry is valid beyond 30 years," he said.
> 
> "It seems they are threatened by our product."
> 
> Who owns what?
> 
> Izhmash has run into copyright problems before.
> 
> Russian companies spent two years disputing who controlled rights to the AK-47 before Izhmash finally won sole control in 2002.
> 
> But the millions of copies sold in arms bazaars over the world - and appearing on at least one national flag (Mozambique's) as well - have yet to produce much in the way of royalties.



A slap on Trinity face!

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## Abdi-Karim Elmi

Hello I'm Back. This Combat vassals can distroy much of South east Asian Naval utilities right?


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## Obambam

Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> Hello I'm Back. This Combat vassals can distroy much of *South east Asian* Naval utilities right?



By that you mean the Vietnamese and Filipinos right?


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## Abdi-Karim Elmi

Obambam said:


> By that you mean the Vietnamese and Filipinos right?



Not really, most other ASEAN nation there. If so can it?


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## anarchy 99

Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> Hello I'm Back. This Combat vassals can distroy much of South east Asian Naval utilities right?



this is reserved for the big boys.

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## skyknight

Speculated CG of the New 130mm Main Gun

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## Obambam

Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> Not really, most other ASEAN nation there. If so can it?



Who in ASEAN are on the same anti China bandwagon as the Vietnamese and Filipinos to warrant such attacks? 

The Vietnamese boys here will probably tell you that they are the strongest navy in ASEAN. But their naval and financial might is no match for China, is that clear enough for you?

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## Abdi-Karim Elmi

Obambam said:


> Who in ASEAN are on the same anti China bandwagon as the Vietnamese and Filipinos to warrant such attacks?
> 
> The Vietnamese boys here will probably tell you that they are the strongest navy in ASEAN. But their naval and financial might is no match for China, is that clear enough for you?



This vassel has enough fire power to shot down BM and has over 60 missiles. It would probably can distroy the entire Phillipine Navy and and air force..one ship alone XD

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## Obambam

Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> This vassel has enough fire power to shot down BM and has over 60 missiles. It would probably can distroy the entire *Phillipine Navy* and and air force..*one ship alone* XD



If there is a naval conflict, there will always be more than one ship participating. Hence they are out matched.


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## pla

China ,GOOD JOB!!!


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## Abdi-Karim Elmi

Obambam said:


> If there is a naval conflict, there will always be more than one ship participating. Hence they are out matched.



Plus Han Class SSNB and a future AC with naval J-11 with ASEA radar or a naval version of the J-XXX.


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## HongWu

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The late Type 055 DDG gonna have a lot of hot launch cells just like the latest Arleigh Burke DDG, since these beasts are going to play role as the escort guardians of our future CVN.


Any thing 12,500 tons should not be a DDG but a cruiser. Might as well be nuclear powered.

The 130 mm main gun is sweet but it should be upgraded to 155 mm, enclosed for stealth, just like Zumwalt-class.




Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> Plus Han Class SSNB and a future AC with naval J-11 with ASEA radar or a naval version of the J-XXX.


Han class SSN is from the 70's. Type 095 SSN is the new generation. The first ship was launched in 2009 or 2010. It should be in service by next year, I think, and then we'll see the first photos. Naval J-11B is called J-15, equipped with AESA radar, and it's already been tested on the Varyag. Not sure whether J-20 will have a naval version but the J-21 that has been spotted (with conventional layout not canard delta) is rumored to be adaptable to carriers.

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## Abdi-Karim Elmi

HongWu said:


> Any thing 12,500 tons should not be a DDG but a cruiser. Might as well be nuclear powered.
> 
> The 130 mm main gun is sweet but it should be upgraded to 155 mm, enclosed for stealth, just like Zumwalt-class.
> 
> 
> Han class SSN is from the 70's. Type 095 SSN is the new generation. The first ship was launched in 2009 or 2010. It should be in service by next year, I think, and then we'll see the first photos. Naval J-11B is called J-15, equipped with AESA radar, and it's already been tested on the Varyag. Not sure whether J-20 will have a naval version but the J-21 that has been spotted (with conventional layout not canard delta) is rumored to be adaptable to carriers.


 
If so J-21 is avaliable in a carrer version, would that mean india's Mig 29K with high cross section radar is useless? And tye New sub should have 100+ Cruise missile like the virgina class. It can devestate a South east asian nation like Vietnam and Phillipines. China should have 30 Type 52D with new K class ABM, 50 new 12,000 class Ships with Space warfare systems and 69 Nuclear subs and a DF-21 missile on board a Distroyer (Naval version). Plus 300 J-20 for naval Patrol under PLAAF command and Four Carriers in the future.


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## Beast

Obambam said:


> Who in ASEAN are on the same anti China bandwagon as the Vietnamese and Filipinos to warrant such attacks?
> 
> The Vietnamese boys here will probably tell you that they are the strongest navy in ASEAN. But their naval and financial might is no match for China, is that clear enough for you?



Strongest Navy in ASEAN shall be Singapore follow by Malaysia Navy. The Singapore Navy Formidable class frigate carry the Aster 30 SAM which is a true air defence weapon. 

Vietnam Navy is consider of the weak one in ASEAN

ASEAn navy stength as follow

1. Singapore Navy
2. Malaysia Navy
3. Royal Thai Navy 
4. Vietnam Navy 
5. Indonesia Navy
6. Myanmar Navy
7. Brunei Navy
8. Philippine Navy
9. Cambodia Navy

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## Abdi-Karim Elmi

Beast said:


> Strongest Navy in ASEAN shall be Singapore follow by Malaysia Navy. The Singapore Navy Formidable class frigate carry the Aster 30 SAM which is a true air defence weapon.
> 
> Vietnam Navy is consider of the weak one in ASEAN
> 
> ASEAn navy stength as follow
> 
> 1. Singapore Navy
> 2. Malaysia Navy
> 3. Royal Thai Navy
> 4. Vietnam Navy
> 5. Indonesia Navy
> 6. Myanmar Navy
> 7. Brunei Navy
> 8. Philippine Navy
> 9. Cambodia Navy



Singapore is Dominated by Han Chinese right? Are they friendly with China?


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## Beast

Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> Singapore is Dominated by Han Chinese right? Are they friendly with China?



They are pro American. The economy is dependent mostly on US market but China market is equally important to their growth too recently.

End of the day, they try to be friendly to both but US will be prority to their survival.

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## HongWu

Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> If so J-21 is avaliable in a carrer version, would that mean india's Mig 29K with high cross section radar is useless?


Anything india operates is likely to be useless because of indian incompetence. 




Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> And tye New sub should have 100+ Cruise missile like the virgina class. It can devestate a South east asian nation like Vietnam and Phillipines.


Ohio has 100+ cruise missiles and Type 095 will carry cruise missiles as well.




Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> China should have 30 Type 52D with new K class ABM, 50 new 12,000 class Ships with Space warfare systems and 69 Nuclear subs and a DF-21 missile on board a Distroyer (Naval version).


The Type 043 Qing class diesel-electric submarine carries a single DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (naval version).




Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> Plus 300 J-20 for naval Patrol under PLAAF command and Four Carriers in the future.


J-20 will definitely have naval patrol duties because China's most likely future wars will be naval. The Varyag will enter service this year, another 2 conventional propulsion carriers will enter service within 5 years. Then another 2 nuclear propulsion carriers will enter service 5 years after that (~2022).

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## &#1080;&#1085;&#1076;&#1091;&#1089;&#1089;&#1082;&

nice work up for china

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## Abdi-Karim Elmi

Beast said:


> They are pro American. The economy is dependent mostly on US market but China market is equally important to their growth too recently.
> 
> End of the day, they try to be friendly to both but US will be prority to their survival.



In order to expand Chinese markets and navy, China needs ports in the African continants and Have a naval base in the Indian ocean.



HongWu said:


> Anything india operates is likely to be useless because of indian incompetence.
> 
> 
> Ohio has 100+ cruise missiles and Type 095 will carry cruise missiles as well.
> 
> 
> The Type 043 Qing class diesel-electric submarine carries a single DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (naval version).
> 
> 
> J-20 will definitely have naval patrol duties because China's most likely future wars will be naval. The Varyag will enter service this year, another 2 conventional propulsion carriers will enter service within 5 years. Then another 2 nuclear propulsion carriers will enter service 5 years after that (~2022).



With this type of navy, the PLAN would dominate the East pacific and Make the Phillipines crap in there pants. This naval plan would make china dominate in the Insldian ocean as well.

*Indian ocean as well.



&#1080;&#1085;&#1076;&#1091;&#1089;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;&#1081; &#1089;&#1078;&#1077;&#1095;&#1100;;3347187 said:


> nice work up for china



Is russia on china side in the pacific (remember exersise)


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## skyknight

Russia is always on his own side&#65292;
cooperation with China in some international affairs now is in Russia's interest,
but not including the disputes in the west Pacific&#12290;

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## no_name

skyknight said:


> Speculated CG of the New 130mm Main Gun



What does the tube like thing that runs along the gun barrel do? I've seen that with Russian and Chinese (which derived from russia) guns but not on western ones.

Does it operate a gas piston from the exhausts to reload the gun?

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## skyknight

no_name said:


> What does the tube like thing that runs along the gun barrel do? I've seen that with Russian and Chinese (which derived from russia) guns but not on western ones.
> 
> Does it operate a gas piston from the exhausts to reload the gun?


It is water-cooling pipe&#65292;it is used in French navy gun too.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Type 052D 3D art concept



> http://bbs.meyet.com/data/attachment/forum/201208/27/1145088s3p0np3iaizgz21.jpg

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## UKBengali

HongWu said:


> Anything india operates is likely to be useless because of indian incompetence.
> 
> 
> Ohio has 100+ cruise missiles and Type 095 will carry cruise missiles as well.
> 
> 
> The Type 043 Qing class diesel-electric submarine carries a single DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (naval version).
> 
> 
> J-20 will definitely have naval patrol duties because China's most likely future wars will be naval. *The Varyag will enter service this year, another 2 conventional propulsion carriers will enter service within 5 years. Then another 2 nuclear propulsion carriers will enter service 5 years after that (~2022)*.



Do you think the eventual plan is for China to have a Navy as powerful as the US to make sure that no-one can blackmail China?

Maybe not as many carriers as the US, but lots of modern SSNs to scare the US to stop it from ever threatening to interfere with Chinese merchant trade with other countries all over the world.

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## Diamond_Gold

Beast said:


> *They are pro American*. The economy is dependent mostly on US market but China market is equally important to their growth too recently.
> 
> End of the day, they try to be friendly to both but US will be prority to their survival.



Pro-american doesn't mean we would act strictly according to america's order or will. Singapore's utimate grand vision is to help not only ourselves but also *our asian neighbours *to develop, to co-exist peacefully and to cooperate among us in order to forge a stronger and a more prosperous asia.

In general, asians are all hardworkers and are capable to upgrade their skills and own livinghood if their governments are genuinely working for their people and stop being made use by others to destroy/sabortage our or other's long hard earned progress.

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## anarchy 99

Diamond_Gold said:


> Pro-american doesn't mean we would act strictly according to america's order or will. Singapore's utimate grand vision is to help not only ourselves but also *our asian neighbours *to develop, to co-exist peacefully and to cooperate among us in order to forge a stronger and a more prosperous asia.
> 
> In general, asians are all hardworkers and are capable to upgrade their skills and own livinghood if their governments are genuinely working for their people and stop being made use by others to destroy/sabortage our or other's long hard earned progress.



Then stop giving a military base to that fascist American regime.

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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> Do you think the eventual plan is for China to have a Navy as powerful as the US to make sure that no-one can blackmail China?
> 
> Maybe not as many carriers as the US, but lots of modern SSNs to scare the US to stop it from ever threatening to interfere with Chinese merchant trade with other countries all over the world.



Powerful PLAN is to fight proxy war and protect Chinese interest overseas. Chinese ballistic Missile is the real thing to knock off USN.

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## Akasa

Within five years the Chinese Navy would possess carrier battle groups that are second to none to the United States' carrier battle groups.

The equipment and expertise are now gaining appearance and are being tested. Such a carrier battle group would include:

- Type 085 carrier (Huitong mentioned that it might feature steam catapults)
- J-15 4.5 generation fighter, fitted with the latest AESA, integrated electronics, and various fifth generation airframe enhancements
- J-21 5th generation fighter, its own equivalent of the F-35C, but much stealthier and more versatile
- Sharp Sword stealth UCAV (equivalent of X-47, military insiders confirmed its first flight to be this year)
- Z-8AEW (very powerful AESA equipped helicopter)
- Y-7 AWACS
- Type 095 submarine, adopting a very similar configuration to the newest Virginia class submarine, and carries vertically launched cruise missiles (first is under construction according to military insiders)
- Type 052D air defense destroyer: upgraded with next generation AESA, universal VLS, etc
- Type 055 cruiser: to be a very large modern cruiser equivalent to the Tico
- Type 054A frigate

The PLA Marine Corps would also commission its first Type 081 LHD, supplemented by Type 071 and destroyers.

Technology wise, the PLA Navy surface combatants would be almost comparable to the US Navy in a few years. However, it is the quantity of destroyers and equipment that we still need work on.

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## Oldman1

UKBengali said:


> Do you think the eventual plan is for China to have a Navy as powerful as the US to make sure that no-one can blackmail China?
> 
> Maybe not as many carriers as the US, but lots of modern SSNs to scare the US to stop it from ever threatening to interfere with Chinese merchant trade with other countries all over the world.



We have enough SSNs to stop China interfering with trade in Asia. Not to mention invading other Asian nations.


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## UKBengali

Oldman1 said:


> We have enough SSNs to stop China interfering with trade in Asia. Not to mention invading other Asian nations.



I was talking about China going for maybe around 5-6 carriers max and then building 30 extra SSNs to give added punch to it's Navy. One carrier battle group could easily cost the same as 20 SSNs when you count the cost of the aircraft carrier, aircraft and the escorts.

It could be a more cost effecting way of keeping the US at bay in areas like the East Pacific, South Indian and Atlantic Oceans than building many more carrier battle groups.

In East Pacific and South China Sea China's Navy, airforce and the DF-21D would take care of the US Navy.


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## Roybot

no_name said:


> What does the tube like thing that runs along the gun barrel do? I've seen that with Russian and Chinese (which derived from russia) guns but not on western ones.
> 
> Does it operate a gas piston from the exhausts to reload the gun?



Even the French Naval guns have those tubes. And Chinese naval guns are copied/derived from the French 100mm naval gun.


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## Nan Yang

anarchy 99 said:


> Then stop giving a military base to that fascist American regime.




If you follow ASEAN politics you will know why Singapore must have good relationship with United States. And China has absolutely nothing to do with it.


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## 帅的一匹

http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2012-08-28/207123_2227313.htm

China 's new generation of 052D missile destroyer to be launched, this is Chinese navy ship force construction of a great milepost, 052D is in the 052C missile destroyer on the basis of the development of a new multi-purpose guided missile destroyer, allegedly the ship is equipped with 64 unit model of missile vertical launching system, 70 times the diameter the 130 mm model single stealth gun, new integrated command and combat system, new red -9 anti-tactical ballistic missile system, land-attack cruise missile, a new long-range anti-ship missiles and a new active phased array radar system. Overall performance and stealth ability obtained the unprecedented increase, shipboard power equipment system upgrade, now let us know in advance what our new warships

PLA navy is really awesome, keep walking!

keep disclsoing newest weapon is not for showoff, it's effective way of mental deterrence. Telling hostile country to have serious thinking before move.

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## 帅的一匹

Nan Yang said:


> If you follow ASEAN politics you will know why Singapore must have good relationship with United States. And China has absolutely nothing to do with it.


Singapore has very strong economic relationship with China, including Malaysia as well.


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## 帅的一匹

Oldman1 said:


> We have enough SSNs to stop China interfering with trade in Asia. Not to mention invading other Asian nations.


Stop disguise Mr Nice, USA wanna bring down China and rule all the Asian and always the man behind the scene. BTW, we have enough DF-21 AND CJ-10 cruise missle to sink your carriers. USA was never engaged in war with a country with population more than 100 millions in the past decades. We are talking about China, not Iraq or Afganistan. We are peaceful men and wemon, not war mongering zealot as you said.



KRAIT said:


> Can India import these....


You are a moderate Indian. Personally, i say yes.

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## manofwar

wanglaokan said:


> Stop disguise Mr Nice, USA wanna bring down China and rule all the Asian and always the man behind the scene. *BTW, we have enough DF-21 AND CJ-10 cruise missle to sink your carriers.* USA was never engaged in war with a country with population more than 100 millions in the past decades. We are talking about China, not Iraq or Afganistan. We are peaceful men and wemon, not war mongering zealot as you said.


Ummm, if you don't know it's nearly impossible that China would risk hitting American carriers, and get nuked by the Americans. You see unlike China America doesn't have a no-first use policy 

That's why the cold war didn't have a direct engagement, not even once. It was all about proxies fighting each other.........

Btw the ship is a beaut........


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## rcrmj

Roybot said:


> Even the French Naval guns have those tubes. And Chinese naval guns are copied/derived from the French 100mm naval gun.


so your stupidity comes to the conclusion of the new Chinese navy gun is 'copied' from french just by few similarities``lol then how about your 'indigineous' programs of LCA, Arjun, Brahmos, INSAS and Akash? because basied on your low IQ assumption they are all copies from Mirage, Leopard MBT, russian P-800 Oniks, AK-47/FN and Russian SA-6

Dassault Mirage 2000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Leopard 2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
P-800 Oniks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
AK-47 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
FN FAL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2K12 Kub - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## 帅的一匹

manofwar said:


> Ummm, if you don't know it's nearly impossible that China would risk hitting American carriers, and get nuked by the Americans. You see unlike China America doesn't have a no-first use policy
> 
> That's why the cold war didn't have a direct engagement, not even once. It was all about proxies fighting each other.........


No one in this planet will be stuipid enough to nuke Chinese territory, including USA. We are talking about a conventional war in the limited conflict. If the Ameriacan use their shipboard aircrafts to bomb our city, we have to sink those carriers. Any other choice?

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## anarchy 99

manofwar said:


> Ummm, if you don't know it's nearly impossible that China would risk hitting American carriers, and get nuked by the Americans. You see unlike China America doesn't have a no-first use policy
> 
> That's why the cold war didn't have a direct engagement, not even once. It was all about proxies fighting each other.........
> 
> Btw the ship is a beaut........



If the americans ever, and i mean ever, launch nukes at china, then that will be the end of the american empire forever. Chinese generals are cold, brutal and absolutely ruthless humans, they will not care how many cities or millions of lives china loses as long as america and the american civilization is wiped off the map completely. A ruthless extermination. 
Our nuclear arsenal is much much bigger than what is 'officially' known.

The PLA will sacrifice as many lives, as much money, as many military equipment and as many national resources as it takes to achieve our strategic objective of going to war.
An all out war with china is a war to the finish.

China aint Iraq or Afghanistan son.

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## 帅的一匹

The only country in the world ever got nucked is Japan, cause they did not have counter deterrence.


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## Roybot

rcrmj said:


> so your stupidity comes to the conclusion of the new Chinese navy gun is 'copied' from french just by few similarities``lol then how about your 'indigineous' programs of LCA, Arjun, Brahmos, INSAS and Akash? because basied on your low IQ assumption they are all copies from Mirage, Leopard MBT, russian P-800 Oniks, AK-47/FN and Russian SA-6
> 
> your inferior complexity plus your low IQ really gives normal people a good laugh and a slap on your own face



What a moron. That Taiwanese bloke said that the Chinese naval gun is derived from Russian Naval gun, and I corrected him. Why are you lots so insecure

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## Nishan_101

Roybot said:


> Even the French Naval guns have those tubes. And Chinese naval guns are copied/derived from the French 100mm naval gun.


 
I like these 100mm guns and we should have it on our own F-22Ps


----------



## rcrmj

Roybot said:


> What a moron. That Taiwanese bloke said that the Chinese naval gun is derived from Russian Naval gun, and I corrected him. Why are you lots so insecure


first try to understand the meanings of 'derived' and 'copied' and come to show your refined stupidity as usual


----------



## Roybot

rcrmj said:


> first try to understand the meanings of 'derived' and 'copied' and come to show your refined stupidity as usual



It means the same in China. If you didn't pay for the design, its copied.


----------



## Nishan_101

*I wish that no Pakistani will start up a discussion in any way that PN should look towards these about 6 of them.* As we don't even have money now to build 7 SSKs.













The thing now important is that we should look towards producing the next batch of F-22Ps and another 5 FACs along side some corvettes.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Nishan_101 said:


> I like these 100mm guns and we should have it on our own F-22Ps


Why not try 130mm one?



Roybot said:


> It means the same in China. If you didn't pay for the design, its copied.


We directly pay expertises who designed the designs.



Nishan_101 said:


> *I wish that no Pakistani will start up a discussion in any way that PN should look towards these about 6 of them.* As we don't even have money now to build 7 SSKs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing now important is that we should look towards producing the next batch of F-22Ps and another 5 FACs along side some corvettes.


I think type 054b corvette is very suitable for PN.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

I think after the F-22P frigate, Pakistan should go after the Type 054A frigate and the Type 056 corvette, since these warships are the mature and reliable technology.

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## gambit

SinusSoldered said:


> Within five years the Chinese Navy would possess carrier battle groups that are second to none to the United States' carrier battle groups.


It takes several *YEARS* to construct an aircraft carrier.

Build To Order: One Aircraft Carrier Here's why it takes more than seven years to make the world's most complicated manufactured product. - July 22, 2002


> The job involves 47,000 tons of precision-welded steel up to four inches thick, more than a million distinct parts, 900 miles of wire and cable, around 40 million skilled-worker hours, battalions of engineers, and *over seven years of hard work.* You think you have tough specs and demanding customers? *The Navy expects carriers to dominate the seas for 50 years and come home only once for refueling.*


Then it takes *YEARS* to refuel...


> ...they can go 15 to 20 years without refueling. The trade-offs are a more expensive power plant, a longer, more complicated refueling process *(it takes several years)*...


Not only that, China does not have even 1/10th the aircraft carrier experience compared to India or France or Great Britain or even Brazil.

Dream on...

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## Roybot

Obambam said:


> BBC NEWS | Business | Kalashnikov upset by Indian 'copy'
> 
> Obviously not for India



Listen mate, there is no need to get your panties in a twist. Copies of Kalishnikov has been made all over the world including your very own Type 56. Indian one never went into production though.

Coming back to the 100mm Chinese naval gun,

Here's what Sinodefence says about it,



> *The compact single-barrel 100mm gun is a Chinese copy of the French Creusot-Loire T100C dual-purpose (surface strike and air defence) compact 100mm naval gun design.* The system is a lightweight version of the French 100mm naval gun, with a combat weight of 19 tonnes including gunhouse, deck, and magazine. The PRC purchased two examples of the Creusot-Loire T100C in the 1980s, and one of them was installed on the single Type 053HT-H (Jianghu-IV class) frigate Siping (544) for trial.
> 
> The Chinese-made version of the Creusot-Loire T100C has been installed on the Type 052B Luyang-I class DDG, Type 052C Luyang-II class DDG, Type 051C Luzhou class DDG, and Type 054 Jiangkai-I class FFG.
> 
> http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/weapon/single-100mm-gun.asp



As I said I was just correcting no_name, that the Chinese naval gun is copy of the French and not Russian design. Give it a rest now.

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## April.lyrics

Roybot said:


> It means the same in China. If you didn't pay for the design, its copied.



yup,it's "copied" and "derived" from french ones,as long as u feel good~

i dont mind it.look,what i care about is:

1.new 130mm gun.thats a good thing for us.before that,we just have 4 Sovremenniys with 130mm old soviet guns.other navy cannon calibers r 76mm or 100mm.it's a revolution and u see,it's just like watching a child to grow up.u can share those achivements with people working on it.wow we have a new cannon,sounds very cool

2.new VLS. well,as we already see Rectangular VLS on 054A,it didnt surprised me much though this VLS is more advanced than 054A's.it can also launch anti-ship missile as someone said,yet we still need to wait answer.

3.new AESA.this also give me visual impact.as a fanboy,i think Burke's radome looks better than 052C's.so i want a new shape~look,i'm not an expert.

but there is one thing i know:new systems on 052D would be better than 052C's.a new generation Air Warfare Destroyer is coming to PLAN~

i know it will be difficult for u ,who have never been through this kind of feelings, to understand

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## Obambam

Roybot said:


> Listen mate, there is no need to get your panties in a twist. *Copies of Kalishnikov has been made all over the world* including your very own Type 56. *Indian one never went into production though*.
> 
> Coming back to the 100mm Chinese naval gun,
> 
> Here's what Sinodefence says about it,
> 
> 
> 
> As I said I was just correcting no_name, that the Chinese naval gun is copy of the French and not Russian design. Give it a rest now.



No need to be on defensive. It was just another way for me to sum up what you just said.

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## cirr

Type 052D uses Concentric Canister Launcher&#65288;CCL&#65289;for its VLS&#12290;

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## ChineseTiger1986

Roybot said:


> Listen mate, there is no need to get your panties in a twist. Copies of Kalishnikov has been made all over the world including your very own Type 56. Indian one never went into production though.
> 
> Coming back to the 100mm Chinese naval gun,
> 
> Here's what Sinodefence says about it,
> 
> 
> 
> As I said I was just correcting no_name, that the Chinese naval gun is copy of the French and not Russian design. Give it a rest now.



When it becomes far more superior and improved from its predecessor, it cannot be labelled as a knockoff.

Even the Soviet jet engine has its root from UK, yet you cannot simply label the Russian jet engine as a copy of the British jet engine.

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## anarchy 99

Double post


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## cirr

Type 055&#65292;which is expected to appear in 2014 or 2015&#65292;is said to possess distinctive and sci-fi exterior designs&#12290;


----------



## sweetgrape

Back to topic:
054D was a breakthrough in many military technologys, just wait it, I guess in less than 2 years, we will see them.!

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## rcrmj

Roybot said:


> It means the same in China. If you didn't pay for the design, its copied.


so its the same for India, thanks for the clarification


----------



## April.lyrics

gambit said:


> Really...???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There must some miscommunication between your unit/station and the other paid Chinese Internet warriors here. You have no idea how embarrassing you just appeared to all. China is the world's largest producer of copied and inferior electronics from theft and legitimate purchases. You may boast that you learn fast, but the truth is that the hard work have been done by others so that China can afford to learn fast.
> 
> *Conscript reject,*
> 
> This is not a forum managed by a compliant Baidu. There are people with real military experience, unlike *ALL* of the Chinese crowd here. Your nonsense from 'Chinese physics' to fanciful military scenarios will be challenged. Your best bet is to petition the Chinese moderator on the admin staff to exercise his power and censor those who challenge you. The call for racial solidarity will pull on him soon enough.


 
hehe,thanks for ur "sobriety". but for the moment we want a revelry.

we are not proud just for 052D. it is the development which PLAN showing us that exciting us.

15 years ago,we cant imagine VLS,AESA and many other equipments can be equiped with PLA.

those days we only had old soviet submarine R class, old type destroyer 051 whose tonnage is around 3000~4000 and other ships.in those days PLAN were just coast guards.

but now,we can design and build our own ship with Agis system.it's like an evolution from primitive society to modern society.that is what we enjoy.15 years ago,everyone would be frustrated by PLAN. but now we see hope on PLAN. that is quite different. we know we still have a long way to go,But the way is wide and straight and clear.

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## skyknight

After 052D, we can expect the 055 DDG(over 10000ton ,equivalent to DDG1000) , Domestic Carrier(60000ton - 80000ton), LHD(40000ton), 054B...
the list goes on....
We have dreams, and we are making dreams become reality.

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## ChineseTiger1986

skyknight said:


> After 052D, we can expect the 055 DDG(over 10000ton ,equivalent to DDG1000) , Domestic Carrier(60000ton - 80000ton), LHD(40000ton), 054B...
> the list goes on....
> We have dreams, and we are making dreams become reality.



The Type 089 AC is even 100000 tons and nuclear powered, i think we can see it by 2020.

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## aimarraul



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## oct605032048

aimarraul said:


>



She is pretty beautiful isn't she?


----------



## IND151

a zoomed and clear picture please

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## oct605032048

One step at a time.

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## Nishan_101

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think after the F-22P frigate, Pakistan should go after the Type 054A frigate and the Type 056 corvette, since these warships are the mature and reliable technology.


 
I think many people who don't have mind in their brains were opposing this.
Should PN go for 11-15 of Type 056 Corvettes from China?


----------



## gambit

April.lyrics said:


> hehe,thanks for ur "sobriety". but for the moment we want a revelry.
> 
> we are not proud just for 052D. it is the development which PLAN showing us that exciting us.
> 
> 15 years ago,we cant imagine VLS,AESA and many other equipments can be equiped with PLA.
> 
> those days we only had old soviet submarine R class, old type destroyer 051 whose tonnage is around 3000~4000 and other ships.in those days PLAN were just coast guards.
> 
> but now,we can design and build our own ship with Agis system.it's like an evolution from primitive society to modern society.that is what we enjoy.15 years ago,everyone would be frustrated by PLAN. but now we see hope on PLAN. that is quite different. we know *we still have a long way to go*,But the way is wide and straight and clear.


That is good that *YOU* recognize that militarily speaking, China still has a long way to go, but do you really think that five years is that 'long way' for the PLAN to match the USN as posited by one of yours...

Build To Order: One Aircraft Carrier Here's why it takes more than seven years to make the world's most complicated manufactured product. - July 22, 2002


> ...around 40 million skilled-worker hours, battalions of engineers, and over seven years of hard work.


Seven years to build a Nimitz class aircraft carrier. No one set the standard for what is a 'Nimitz class' ship. Not US. We never told any navy anywhere that there is such a thing. We just simply say the 'Nimitz class' is so-and-so specifications and applicable to US.



> Within five years the Chinese Navy would possess carrier battle groups that are second to none to the United States' carrier battle groups.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/204225-type-052d-ddg-revealed-9.html#ixzz24reBASvV


So how could anyone reconcile that silly claim?


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## Sasquatch

Deleted to pages of Personal attacks and mudslinging if it happens again it's a infraction, warning to all members.


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## Sasquatch

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And tell Gambit to delete his flamebait as well.


 
I'm getting rid of most of the flamebait comments from both sides. But I would say you shouldn't attack someone if they have a different opinion or comment that differs from your own.

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## Akasa

gambit said:


> That is good that *YOU* recognize that militarily speaking, China still has a long way to go, but do you really think that five years is that 'long way' for the PLAN to match the USN as posited by one of yours...
> 
> Build To Order: One Aircraft Carrier Here's why it takes more than seven years to make the world's most complicated manufactured product. - July 22, 2002
> 
> Seven years to build a Nimitz class aircraft carrier. No one set the standard for what is a 'Nimitz class' ship. Not US. We never told any navy anywhere that there is such a thing. We just simply say the 'Nimitz class' is so-and-so specifications and applicable to US.
> 
> 
> So how could anyone reconcile that silly claim?


 
Do you know what <<second to none>> means?



gambit said:


> It takes several *YEARS* to construct an aircraft carrier.
> 
> Build To Order: One Aircraft Carrier Here's why it takes more than seven years to make the world's most complicated manufactured product. - July 22, 2002
> 
> Then it takes *YEARS* to refuel...
> 
> Not only that, China does not have even 1/10th the aircraft carrier experience compared to India or France or Great Britain or even Brazil.
> 
> Dream on...


 
China started on its indigenous carriers in 2008. Which means that if they are built according to your timeline then they will be launched in 2015, which would be two years AHEAD of the schedule I posted.

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## Viet

We are still looking for some test targets for our submarines.
What do you think, can your warship toy withstand SS-N-27 Sizzler antiship missile?


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## cirr

A total of 24 of these babies will built in 3 batches numbering 7&#12289;8 and 9.

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## cirr

The world economy is and will likely remain in deep sh1t for the next few years&#65292;and the shipbuilding industry in particular is under a heavy pile of sh1t&#12290;China might as well make the best use of this downturn and have her shipyards busy with building naval assets&#65292;thereby shortening the time required for PLAN's modernization&#12289;expediting technological innovation and stimulating domestic demand&#12290;


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## anarchy 99

cirr said:


> A total of 24 of these babies will built in 3 batches numbering 7&#12289;8 and 9.



will it be able to launch the ship launched DH-10 cruise missile?


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## cirr

anarchy 99 said:


> will it be able to launch the ship launched DH-10 cruise missile?



The new all-purpose VLS has no problem launching the DH-10s&#65292;but the main role of 052D is air-defence&#65292;a task which will be jointly carried out with the 055s which will have vertically launched DH-10s for land attacks and HQ-26s for anti-ballistic missile roles&#12290;

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## Sasquatch

Stick to the topic this is not about Vietnam.


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## 帅的一匹

055DDG should contain 96 UNITS of general VLS


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## April.lyrics

well,lets get back to the discussion of 052D or relative news.or this thread would be ruined.


----------



## cirr



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## cirr



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## Gessler

sicsheep said:


> Yeah as we all know we field IRBM and SRBM in hundreds just for show right? after all Sub bases don't move around much, and hopefully you are ready to shoot down missels with a Mach 6 terminal velocity (Most advanced version of SCUD has a terminal velocity of 3.5, just FYI)


 
Speed/valocity at terimal stage has very little to do with the interception, as long
as the incoming missile follows a predictable ballistic trajectory path. A SAM need
not be able to achieve a higher velocity than the incoming missile in order to
intercept it.

If not, then the Agni-5 (terminal velocity Mach 24) is invincible. But thats not
how it works.


----------



## sicsheep

gessler said:


> Speed/valocity at terimal stage has very little to do with the interception, as long
> as the incoming missile follows a predictable ballistic trajectory path. A SAM need
> not be able to achieve a higher velocity than the incoming missile in order to
> intercept it.
> 
> If not, then the Agni-5 (terminal velocity Mach 24) is invincible. But thats not
> how it works.



It has everything to do with reaction time, especially for country does not has DPS/early warning satellites. Agni 5 doesn't fit in the IRBM and SRBM category so I dont know why you brought it up. but hey welcome to the ICBM club 40 years after China.

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## Yehe

amalakas said:


> I would like to offer, that if China was the one who went to war with Iraq back then, Iraq would hand them their behinds wrapped in xmas paper as a gift. Despite the fact that Iraq had no real airforce to talk about.
> 
> Hell, I do believe that if China was to pick a fight with any NATO member alone (philosophical question, not real) many laughs would ensue ...
> 
> China has been accumulating hardware (of questionable quality so far -because we haven't seen any of it in real action) but no experience in fighting.
> 
> US not only has huge experience in using CNVs, but there are literally thousands of people who have served on them so far and can be called at any moment to offer their experiences if needed.
> 
> can you begin to comprehend what an enormous asset that is. Remember Japan had plenty of Zeros, and ZERO experienced men to fly them.



LMAO, are you on crack or something? I been to both greece and sweden, sweden I lived for 7 years, greece I been to for vacation for over a dozen time, sweden never hade any kind of experience in modern warfare, and arent even a nato country, and greece doesnt even have a worthy military to speak with. The fact is without the US, the entire NATO even if put together still couldnt even make a dent on China, let alone a single nato country, LOL
About Iraq, a5 1992, china cant defeat iraq cuz china doesnt have projection capabilities that far, but if iraq boarded china, china can without a doubt take out Iraq if neccesary, not that china will do as the US did. 

And talking about experience, it shouldnt be underestimated, but people like you are greatly overrestimating what experience can do, military rutine, structure and dicipline are more important, experience can be learned, whatdo you think all those wargames, 200+ hours per year aviation exercise per pilot, visit and exchange with russian, french, brazil, pakistan, malaysian, Thailand etc. military were all for? playing games? China have been training carrier pilots since early 90s, before china even had any aircraft carrier, are also a regular visitor and user of the ukraine ex USSR carrier training base, what makes you think that china have no experience at all? You think that chinese are just using the new hardware by polishing them pretty? And what experience does most of the nato countries have? None! yet you hypocritically claim that Nato countries can all take on china one on one while claim china are worthless precisely because lack of experience? I amjust appalled of such hypocricy, double standard and selfglorified and super-inflated ego while at the same time you have absolutely nothing to back it up, LOL What kind of daydream are you in?Wake up!

It will take china many years to catch up with the US militarily, but make no misstake, china doesnt have worldwide hegemony to defend, However in Asia, at least in 2000km within the range of chinese coast, china will without a doubt dominate already 15-20years from now, with new gen of ssk amd ssn alrrady been built in shipyards, new DDG like 052d and upcoming 055, 054b FFG, domestic ACs, unmanned long range attack drone, new satellit system, DF21 antiship BM, new advanced datalink and integrated fire-control and data-sharing ability, HYPERSONIC long range missiles(china just fielded the very first and most advanced hypersonic wind shock test tunnel in the world), J20, J21, new unmanned stealth AC based attackaircraft I dont see how any country can compare withchina already 15 years from now, at least in the west pacific. 
And yes, China can easily break through vietnamese airdefence without a problem, stealth drone attack, reveal position, then cruise missile strike any airdefence site with thehelp of chinese gps system, the few Su serie fighters vietname got wont even be able to left before airfield have destroyed by chinese BM, and even if by all odds they do, without AWACS, datalink, nor AESA RADAR, they are merely sitting target for china fighters, will drop to the ground in a pretty fireball show. After that it's the rain of bombs unrestricted. 6 subs vs china's 70+ subs, and airial sub hunters, go do the math yourself. Above are ofc just purely militaristic projection, a fairly accurate one id say though, hope though this scen will never happen.

I have read on a article off the internet that stated new major combat ship will be fitted with a advanced and greatly improved bouyed sonar system, and completely new revolutional sub communication system(not sure if it was to be fitted on any DDG's though), anyone else have any more info? anyways the 052D's biggest improvement should be the new vertical launcher, it's able to fire ALLkind of missiles both cold and hot launched, it's also able to accomodate missile up to 825mm, which makes it unique, I think not even the newest american vls system can launch any missile that big yet, but they are also developing larger ones. This syatem can basicly be fitted on any ships large enough, could new 054b be fitted with it?

Sorry for the spelling, but I am writing with a pad.


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## cirr

Type 052D is equipped with an X/S dual band AESA radar for air and ballistic missile defence&#12290;

The radar is also a 4-in-1 system&#65292;integrating the functions of search&#12289;guidance&#12289;communication and electronic warfare&#12290;

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## no_name

Cruise missile jet engine cannot be compared to aircraft jet engines. One only has to be used once and for a couple of hours at most.

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## cirr

052D impression with 64 VLS cells and 8 incline-launched DH-10 LACMs&#65306;

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## cirr

052D's VLS incorporating both cold-launch and hot-launch systems&#65292;with the latter using CCL technology&#65306;






hence the disappearance of gas exhaust pipes&#12290;

Comparing with the hot-launch VLS onboard Type 054A FFGs&#65306;

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## AerospaceEngineer

April.lyrics said:


> yup,it's "copied" and "derived" from french ones,as long as u feel good~
> 
> i dont mind it.look,what i care about is:
> 
> 1.new 130mm gun.thats a good thing for us.before that,we just have 4 Sovremenniys with 130mm old soviet guns.other navy cannon calibers r 76mm or 100mm.it's a revolution and u see,it's just like watching a child to grow up.u can share those achivements with people working on it.wow we have a new cannon,sounds very cool
> 
> 2.new VLS. well,as we already see Rectangular VLS on 054A,it didnt surprised me much though this VLS is more advanced than 054A's.it can also launch anti-ship missile as someone said,yet we still need to wait answer.
> 
> 3.new AESA.this also give me visual impact.as a fanboy,i think Burke's radome looks better than 052C's.so i want a new shape~look,i'm not an expert.
> 
> but there is one thing i know:new systems on 052D would be better than 052C's.a new generation Air Warfare Destroyer is coming to PLAN~
> 
> i know it will be difficult for u ,who have never been through this kind of feelings, to understand



_______________________________________________________

That is because the low life indians are truly pathatic by nature.

Even if they try to "copy " they will not be able to do it since they are so so backward !

Now they have to spend 12 billion dollars buying outdated junks like French Rafale. While the Chinese flying "copy" F-35 (J-31) and F-22 (J-20) can and will DESTROY their stone aged junk airforce at well.

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## cirr

32-cell VLS on 052D&#65292;the real stuff at last&#65306;

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## cirr



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## 帅的一匹

That really bang!!!!! I love this one!


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## April.lyrics

cirr said:


>



cheer for 64 cells!


----------



## 帅的一匹

We should build at least 30 of this beast.


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## qwerrty

wanglaokan said:


> We should build at least 30 of this beast.



no. build a bigger class ship like the kdx-3 with 80-cell Mk 41 VLS + 48-cell K-VLS.

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## 帅的一匹

&#26102;&#38388;&#19981;&#31561;&#20154;&#65292;&#26085;&#23495;&#21644;&#32654;&#24093;&#19981;&#26029;&#22312;&#19996;&#28023;&#21644;&#21335;&#28023;&#38382;&#39064;&#19978;&#25361;&#34885;&#12290;&#28023;&#20891;&#26032;&#39537;&#19968;&#23450;&#35201;&#23613;&#24555;&#24418;&#25104;&#25112;&#26007;&#21147;&#65292;&#20445;&#23478;&#21355;&#22269;&#39537;&#36880;&#26085;&#23495;&#65281;


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## no_name

Good for the 64 cells. 

But the main gun reminded me of those found on WWII destroyers.


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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> We should build at least 30 of this beast.



128-cell Type 055 coming up next&#12290;use a little patience&#12290;ok&#65311;


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## holysaturn

is china planning for flush deck warships like FREMM,type-45,arleigh burke,p-17a?????????????? they add to stealth.


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## Sanchez

052D may be produced with no more than 8 hulls (three built). The 055 (9000ton class) is expected to be the standard destroyer of Chinese navy.


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## cirr

Sanchez said:


> 052D may be produced with no more than 8 hulls (three built). The 055 (9000ton class) is expected to be the standard destroyer of Chinese navy.



052Ds will be built in double digit numbers and Type 055 is to have a standard displacement of over 12000 tons&#12290;

Both are expected to be produced concurrently commencing next year&#65292;with the 1st 055 appearing in 2014.


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## marshall

applesauce said:


> ...a completely peaceful nation that has the technological know-how, population/land size and the resource wealth can easily(relatively) trump a enemy that has been fighting for years. so why dont you stop lying now.


You obviously haven't watched the movie "300" about the ancient Spartans who with 300 super warrior Spartans were able to fend off hundreds of thousands of invaders from the thousand nations of the Persian Empire!


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## marshall

cirr said:


> 052Ds will be built in double digit numbers and Type 055 is to have a standard displacement of over 12000 tons&#12290;
> 
> Both are expected to be produced concurrently commencing next year&#65292;with the 1st 055 appearing in 2014.


Where did you get your information concerning the Type 055 DDG? Those are bold claims considering details of the 052D still aren't known despite construction having started.


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## 帅的一匹

marshall said:


> You obviously haven't watched the movie "300" about the ancient Spartans who with 300 super warrior Spartans were able to fend off hundreds of thousands of invaders from the thousand nations of the Persian Empire!


It just a bluffing legend, even 3years old kid won't believe.

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## Nishan_101

cirr said:


> 052D impression with 64 VLS cells and 8 incline-launched DH-10 LACMs&#65306;



Really nice!!!

It should come to Indian Ocean for months in a battle group to scare IN!!!!

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## cirr

D1 on 04.10.2012&#65306;






C5 and C6 on 04.10.2012&#65306;

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## GORKHALI

Nishan_101 said:


> Really nice!!!
> 
> It should come to Indian Ocean for months in a battle group to scare IN!!!!



Are you guys so scared of IN, that you Even started asking your Daddy to Bully much stronger guy in school.Well never mind some thing never changes even after 60yrs of Independence.

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## CHNTiger

I am very proud that PLAnavy becomes stronger and stronger even though the modernization of PLA started too late..

I am very proud that PLAnavy becomes stronger and stronger even though the modernization of PLA started too late..

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## 帅的一匹

If we could produce QC180 in large volume, we will see 9000plus tons of DDG with 90vls in the near future.

At that time we run 10plus 9000tons DDG, we will rank number 2 navy in the pacific.


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## 帅的一匹

I think this thread should be sticky, cause 052D type is extremely important, even when compared to fc20.

50 years air force, hundred year for Navy.


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## April.lyrics

cool idea.but do we really need a extremely powerful navy on condition that we can barely afford it?
Marx said:we should do everything according to practical condition.its still true.yes we are faced with threaten from Japan and america,so building 052D and even 9000 ton destroyer is a necessarity.but it depends on how many we need,and the most essential reason is what kind of navy we really need.we need a navy appropriate to our country condition.
notice that we are the largest developing country.yes we are still a developing country,which is the most important part.
like it or not,we dont need a navy like america,which is an offensive navy and deployed worldwide.we are clear that our navy is defensive,but a positively defensive.i dont know what china would be like in the future,so my words are just for situation now.and if we look developingly,we still dont need huge navy in short future.
cause our navys main job now is to protect profits in scs and east sea.about 300km to 1000km from mainland.as we can already get enough support from airforce and army,even second artillery.


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## ChineseTiger1986

The Arleign Burke Flight III in 2016, its AESA seems to be a fcking ripoff of the Type 052D.

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## S10

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Arleign Burke Flight III in 2016, its AESA seems to be a fcking ripoff of the Type 052D.


Americans have been playing with AESA for far longer than China. You get annoyed when retards say China copies something simply because it looked similar, yet you are doing the same thing.


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## ChineseTiger1986

S10 said:


> Americans have been playing with AESA for far longer than China. You get annoyed when retards say China copies something simply because it looked similar, yet you are doing the same thing.



I was getting sarcastic when something similar must be considered as a copy, lol.

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## 帅的一匹

How many 052DS are planned to build? We need it in large volume.


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## 帅的一匹

How many types of missiles could be launched by general VLS on 052D destroyer?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Arleign Burke Flight III in 2016, its AESA seems to be a fcking ripoff of the Type 052D.


Really nice pictures, seem vey alike in the outlook. China navy is modernized toward American style.


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## Beast

S10 said:


> Americans have been playing with AESA for far longer than China. You get annoyed when retards say China copies something simply because it looked similar, yet you are doing the same thing.



This is called paying the compliment and let them have a taste of their own medicine.

British is also the one who start angle deck scheme for their CV and now who is the master of CV on sea?

You started early doens't mean others has no chance to catch up or surpass you...

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## WS-10 Engine

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Arleign Burke Flight III in 2016, its AESA seems to be a fcking ripoff of the Type 052D.



Disgusting.

Americans have always copied Chinese designs.

This is why our J-20 is like waaaaay better than the pilot killing F-22.

We are now number 1 is ship building.

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## Oldman1

WS-10 Engine said:


> Disgusting.
> 
> Americans have always copied Chinese designs.
> 
> This is why our J-20 is like waaaaay better than the pilot killing F-22.
> 
> We are now number 1 is ship building.



Whats really disgusting is copying our Aegis style system.

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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> Whats really disgusting is copying our Aegis style system.



No , the disgusted one is US. Your AB III will come out in 2016 our 052D already come out. How can one copy another when yrs is not even in shape! 

Who come out first, the latter will be copy cat. USA is Copy cat, USA is copy cat, USA is copy cat.

You American need to get used to this term, ok? It will be a trend for your Americans soon with your depleted military budget while China budget will balloon. Things and salaries in CHina are much lower. So we will be doing 10 times the amount of what you research, more helping hand to do a same things. 



Oldman1 said:


> Uh yeah sure. Took you guys to make it decades later.



THanks! and we will surpass you soon. Enjoy your 1 trillion military budget cut over the period. US can't really keep increasing your military budget when you ran out of cash..


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## Oldman1

Beast said:


> No , the disgusted one is US. Your AB III will come out in 2016 our 052D already come out. How can one copy another when yrs is not even in shape!
> 
> Who come out first, the latter will be copy cat. USA is Copy cat, USA is copy cat, USA is copy cat.
> 
> You American need to get used to this term, ok? It will be a trend for your Americans soon with your depleted military budget while China budget will balloon. Things and salaries in CHina are much lower. So we will be doing 10 times the amount of what you research, more helping hand to do a same things.
> 
> 
> 
> THanks! and we will surpass you soon. Enjoy your 1 trillion military budget cut over the period. US can't really keep increasing your military budget when you ran out of cash..



Look at your words before you start BS such stuff. "Your AB III" Yes! the Roman numeral using number 3 meaning it was built decades long before your destroyer with Aegis type combat system even existed. Even the VLS was invented specifically for the Aegis. Hence you copied. And as you said you surpass us as in we were ahead already before.

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## xuxu1457



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## 帅的一匹

This thread should be sticky, 052d is a beast in the making.


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## Akasa

Oldman1 said:


> Look at your words before you start BS such stuff. "Your AB III" Yes! the Roman numeral using number 3 meaning it was built decades long before your destroyer with Aegis type combat system even existed. Even the VLS was invented specifically for the Aegis. *Hence you copied.* And as you said you surpass us as in we were ahead already before.



Provide technical details, then. Post company-guarded blueprints of the Type 052D and then talk.

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## 帅的一匹

The VLS scale on 052D is very large compared with 052C and USA Ageis, i guess the actual number of missles could be carried are more than 64 units, for example all packed with anti-aircraft missles might amount to 96 uints plus. The VLS also capable carrying YJ12 OR C805, which means we could carry 32 anti-ship missles in the most. Japan shall piss in pants when 052D put in service.

USA Agies DDG85 and DDG56 are crusing in the China east sea today, we should build as much as 052D ASAP as we could to contain these tremendous threat. China navy need at least 30 Plus 052D to secure the sea territory of China. once again, this thread should be sticky. Are you listening Mod?

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## fab78

> The VLS scale on 052D is very large compared with 052C and USA Ageis, i guess the actual number of missles could be carried are more than 64 units, for example all packed with anti-aircraft missles might amount to 96 uints plus. The VLS also capable carrying YJ12 OR C805, which means we could carry 32 anti-ship missles in the most. Japan shall piss in pants when 052D put in service.



Interesting!
It will give him a phenomenal firepower


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## hk299792458

wanglaokan said:


> The VLS scale on 052D is very large compared with 052C and USA Ageis, i guess the actual number of missles could be carried are more than 64 units, for example all packed with anti-aircraft missles might amount to 96 uints plus. The VLS also capable carrying YJ12 OR C805, which means we could carry 32 anti-ship missles in the most. Japan shall piss in pants when 052D put in service.
> 
> USA Agies DDG85 and DDG56 are crusing in the China east sea today, we should build as much as 052D ASAP as we could to contain these tremendous threat. China navy need at least 30 Plus 052D to secure the sea territory of China. once again, this thread should be sticky. Are you listening Mod?



As far as I know, the references using C-xxx are only used for exportation.

pop3 from HSH forum "confirmed" that the ASM will not be YJ-12 but probably YJ-18, someone guested that this may be a kind of 3M54E but not a copy.


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## Mitro

2012.05 PLAN 052C class N.o171 ship visited HongKong, clear photo of HHQ-9 VLS:
i found it on sinodefence

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## Type 052D

Czar786 said:


> 2012.05 PLAN 052C class N.o171 ship visited HongKong, clear photo of HHQ-9 VLS:
> i found it on sinodefence



That's the old version, now days Type 52 uses Square VLS like the Burke class


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## Mitro

PLAN HHQ-16 VLS missile bay

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## S10

Czar786 said:


> PLAN HHQ-16 VLS missile bay


Not the same missile used on 052D.


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## S10

wanglaokan said:


> The VLS scale on 052D is very large compared with 052C and USA Ageis, i guess the actual number of missles could be carried are more than 64 units, for example all packed with anti-aircraft missles might amount to 96 uints plus. The VLS also capable carrying YJ12 OR C805, which means we could carry 32 anti-ship missles in the most. Japan shall piss in pants when 052D put in service.
> 
> USA Agies DDG85 and DDG56 are crusing in the China east sea today, we should build as much as 052D ASAP as we could to contain these tremendous threat. China navy need at least 30 Plus 052D to secure the sea territory of China. once again, this thread should be sticky. Are you listening Mod?


You have to keep in mind that Chinese propulsion technology is not as advanced as the Americans. Most of our missiles have a large diameter as a result in order to achieve similar range performance. I highly doubt we can cramp more missiles in those tubes given that fact.

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## April.lyrics

^
agree.a 7000 ton ship with 64 units seems to be enough and balanced.

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## Nishan_101

Czar786 said:


> PLAN HHQ-16 VLS missile bay



I don't wonder why not PN has included these 32 Cell VLS AA Missiles in the F-22Ps as they could be placed in the back area of the ships. And we should have procured about 5-7 instead of just 4????

Although there are news that PN has decided to move ahead for the next batch of F-22P Block-II that will be far more advance than the current model. I hope they will going to produce about 5-7 of these now.


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## 帅的一匹

Nishan_101 said:


> I don't wonder why not PN has included these 32 Cell VLS AA Missiles in the F-22Ps as they could be placed in the back area of the ships. And we should have procured about 5-7 instead of just 4????
> 
> Although there are news that PN has decided to move ahead for the next batch of F-22P Block-II that will be far more advance than the current model. I hope they will going to produce about 5-7 of these now.


Why PN straightly go for 054A frigate, it will bring down the cost to 60 millions USD? F-22P is only for transition only. China has to redesign the F22P to contain VLS, this is totally unneccessary for China and Pakistan.


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## 帅的一匹

S10 said:


> You have to keep in mind that Chinese propulsion technology is not as advanced as the Americans. Most of our missiles have a large diameter as a result in order to achieve similar range performance. I highly doubt we can cramp more missiles in those tubes given that fact.


We might need 9000 tons plus destroyer to contain more missiles.if we remove the hanger of 052d, we might carry 96 more VLS units.


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## S10

wanglaokan said:


> We might need 9000 tons plus destroyer to contain more missiles.if we remove the hanger of 052d, we might carry 96 more VLS units.


It's never a good idea to remove the helicopter hanger. You need the chopper for a variety of tasks such asanti-submarine, search-and-rescue and transport.


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## Mitro

S10 said:


> Not the same missile used on 052D.



I am not that much knowledgeble on VLS i found this picture so i thought of posting


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## Type 052D

We need to deloy LCM on these DDG for long range strike capabilities and keep Japs away from our borders

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## hurt

Viet said:


> The first Sub was lauched and is currently on sea trial. The next five will be delivered until 2016. You worried too much about the money, we get them on discounted prize from the Russians, because they are destined for your Navy.
> The Russians just ask us for some reports when we make some war games in the South China Sea. Pls remain seriously on topic and answer my question:
> How about Torpedoes? What type of torpedoes is the best choice to sink your warship toy?
> 
> About your help during the first two VN wars, China played foul, your assistance was very limited, you stopped help and sabotaged when you saw Vietnam was close to win the wars. Who was the monkey?



now 4 636M and 4 039G1 and 8 035B play with your one Sub. there will have 8 636M and 8 039G1 and 16 056 play with your 6 sub in 2016.

good luck

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## wangyifen

nice. Unfortunately,I do not know when to service.


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