# Kashmir buries its young armed resistance leader Burhan Wani among tears.



## Kompromat

*Kashmir buries its young armed resistance leader Burhan Wani among tears.*

Posted By: Opinionator on: July 09, 2016 - Email







Tral South Kashmir: According to eye witness accounts, thousands of Kashmiri people gathered on the funeral of Burhan Muzzafar Wani, a young and influential commander of the indigenous armed resistance movement against India’s illegal and forceful occupation of the Muslim majority region. The Indian media hailed his killing as a ‘major victory’ and nominated him as a ‘terrorist’, the scenes on his funeral though are adequate to dispel those notions as the people of Kashmir clearly disagree, to them he was a hero who died fighting for a righteous cause of freedom from the Indian occupation.





Burhan Wani buried wraped in the Pakistani flag​
Speaking on the condition of anonymity, a local teacher in Tral told Times of Islamabad that “Wani was a nightmare for the Indian forces”, he was very active on Social Media and used online sources to make his case for resisting the Indian state’s forceful occupation of the Muslim majority region since 1948. He further told our correspondent that the local residents emerged in large numbers to bid farewell to their young son who they believe paid with his life to make a case for the freedom of Jammu and Kashmir from the Indian occupation. Times of Islamabad was told that after the Hindu nationalist BJP Govt lead by Narendra Modi swept to power in New Delhi, the Indian forces deployed in Jammu and Kashmir are carrying out regular ‘encounters’ to kill Kashmiri Muslim youth which they believe are a threat to the Indian occupation.





Burhan Wani seen during a social media call to arms against the Indian occupation.​
Eye witnesses told Times of Islamabad that Wani’s family wrapped his dead body in Pakistani flag during his funeral and he was also buried with it. The local residents of Tral believe that the killing of Burhan Wani will rejuvenate the armed resistance. “The Geneva convention gives us the right to fight for our right to have the self determination as we are an internationally recognized disputed territory under the United Nation’s resolutions on which India has signed” we were told by a family member of Burhan Wani. He stated that the World community is turning a nelson’s eye towards Indian state terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir in order to do business with India. “We will fight our own battles, there will be a Burhan Wani coming out of every Kashmiri house because the World watches on as Kashmir bleeds at the hands of Indian govt” he told us.

https://timesofislamabad.com/kashmi...ce-leader-burhan-wani-among-tears/2016/07/09/

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## Tipu7

He was wrapped in Pakistani flag.
Look at size his funeral, every one is Mujahid of freedom from Indian oppression.
Indian will pay ten times, Kashmir is about to get hot in coming days ..............

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## Stephen Cohen

They have brought upon this suffering on themselves 

Unless they give up this desire of joining Pakistan ; They will neither get peace nor happiness

Kashmir's Muslim population is just 9 Million 

India's population is 1300 Million

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## Zarvan

Tipu7 said:


> He was wrapped in Pakistani flag.
> Look at size his funeral, every one is Mujahid of freedom from Indian oppression.
> Indian will pay ten times, Kashmir is about to get hot in coming days ..............


Please post snapshots of Omar Abdullah tweets

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## Tipu7

Stephen Cohen said:


> They have brought upon this suffering on themselves


How? 0.7 Million Opression forces are on peace keeping mission in Kashmir?
When you rape their women, beat their old & kids then you should expect Bullets in return.




Stephen Cohen said:


> Kashmir's Muslim population is just 9 Million



Kashmiri Muslims are majority in Kashmir, in their region. Their will cannot be connected with will of rest of Indian Muslims who live as minority in their own lands.




Zarvan said:


> Please post snapshots of Omar Abdullah tweets

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## Kompromat

There will be more Burhans coming until the Hindutva run occupation of Muslim Kashmir is defeated and Indians are driven back home.

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## Areesh

Stephen Cohen said:


> They have brought upon this suffering on themselves



Same goes for thousands of Indian soldiers that have and will die in Kashmir. For Kashmiris it is not a suffering. For them. Burhan triumphed. He is a victor for them.

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## Stephen Cohen

Areesh said:


> Same goes for thousands of Indian soldiers that have and will die in Kashmir. For Kashmiris it is not a suffering. For them. Burhan triumphed. He is a victor for them.



You can continue supporting them 

We will do whatever it takes to HOLD Kashmir ; no matter what ever the cost

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## danger007

Areesh said:


> Same goes for thousands of Indian soldiers that have and will die in Kashmir. For Kashmiris it is not a suffering. For them. Burhan triumphed. He is a victor for them.




all the best..

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## SpArK

Horus said:


> There will be more Burhans coming until the Hindutva run occupation of Muslim Kashmir is defeated and *Indians are driven back home*.



You are welcome to try.

If needed the rest of the 100s of millions can walk to kashmir from their homes and can show the troubled ones in valley what youth power is.

We dont want to make the color of that river flowing into your territory to red....... *till now*.

Just because they are doing all sort of anti-nationalism and we are keeping it low doesnt mean we will tolerate all the bullsh!t for a long period. 

*We will *make sure the voices that keep coming from outside world remains in Forums like these or your foreign minister shouting it to ur medias for ur own consumption or the occasional emotional speeches in UN or in middle east. 

Good LucK.

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## Areesh

Tipu7 said:


> How? 0.7 Million Opression forces are on peace keeping mission in Kashmir?
> When you rape their women, beat their old & kids then you should expect Bullets in return.



It is hilarious that Indians are calling it a suffering for Burhan. The kid always knew that he would die. But that didn't stop him. He was never afraid of death. He never bothered to even cover his face. Poor Indian military with all its might fail to instill enough fear in him. Indians gave him what he always wanted. A death of a hero. He is a hero for thousands in Kashmir today.



Stephen Cohen said:


> You can continue supporting them
> 
> We will do whatever it takes to HOLD Kashmir ; no matter what ever the cost



Obviously you would try everything to hold on to Kashmir. Story of every oppressor.

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## kaykay

Every Burhan will have same fate...( gf will cheat him lolz)

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## Areesh

danger007 said:


> all the best..



Thank you.

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## Stephen Cohen

Horus said:


> There will be more Burhans coming until the Hindutva run occupation of Muslim Kashmir is defeated and Indians are driven back home.



That will never happen even if Pakistan Army formally declares war on India

*@Horus 

During the JNU agitation there was a slogan 

Har Ghar se Afzal Niklega 

we made a new slogan : 

http://zeenews.india.com/news/india...ega-us-ghar-mein-ghuskar-marenge_1866797.html
*
*BJP's Anurag Thakur's reply to `anti-national` sloganeers - 'Jis ghar se Afzal niklega, us ghar mein ghuskar marenge'*

Now just replace Afzal with Burhan

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## Kompromat

Soviet Union was also under a false impression of invincibility as India is.



Stephen Cohen said:


> That will never happen even if Pakistan Army formally declares war on India
> 
> *@Horus
> 
> During the JNU agitation there was a slogan
> 
> Har Ghar se Afzal Niklega
> 
> we made a new slogan :
> 
> http://zeenews.india.com/news/india...ega-us-ghar-mein-ghuskar-marenge_1866797.html
> *
> *BJP's Anurag Thakur's reply to `anti-national` sloganeers - 'Jis ghar se Afzal niklega, us ghar mein ghuskar marenge'*
> 
> Now just replace Afzal with Burhan

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## Srinivas

India can handle the militancy and administer the valley.

Any attempts by Pakistan to stir unrest will only cause harm to local Kashmiris.
The way the encounter happened it seems the forces know the hide outs well in advance.

There is a democratic way where people of the valley can integrate with the rest of India and can benefit from India's economic growth and then there is a radical way where people are getting support from Pakistan ,try bloodshed and achieve nothing but bring misery to generations.

India will give full rights , economic support and train people in the valley for their upliftment.

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## Stephen Cohen

Horus said:


> Soviet Union was also under a false impression of invincibility as India is.



Soviets were fighting OTHERS ' Battles ; we are fighting for our OWN country

Or you can say Russians were Fighting Others' battles

The Soviets were NOT as United as we HINDUS are

They were divided into 15 SUB Nationalities ; We HINDUS are united about Kashmir

You have NO idea ; WHEN ever the need arises

And when ever the Indian Government gives us civilians --permissions and weapons
we can sort out this Kashmir problem in one day

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## jha

This will not be the last bullet IA fires at Furhans. Every one of these terrorists will be dispatched to graves.

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## hussain0216

The kashmiris are fighting a just battle against occupying foreign hindus.

Accepting oppression is not a option.

Look at how the Kashmiris turned out for him, they draped his coffin in a Pakistani flag and *no one, not one of the thousands of people at the funeral batted a eye lid or tried to remove the flag, not one of the indian occupation forces had the ability or courage to remove the flag

That says it all*

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## Tipu7

Stephen Cohen said:


> The Soviets were NOT as United as we HINDUS are


Hindus are united. Agree
But our area of interest is in Muslim & Sikh population of India, which are obviously not united and need bit ''polishing''.......

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## Stephen Cohen

hussain0216 said:


> That says it all



But what does it change on the ground



Tipu7 said:


> Hindus are united. Agree
> But our area of interest is in Muslim & Sikh population of India, which are obviously not united and need bit ''polishing''.......



You can try 
But they are NOT interested 

They know the reality of Pakistan ; what does Pakistan Offer to Indian Muslims

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## hussain0216

Stephen Cohen said:


> Soviets were fighting OTHERS ' Battles ; we are fighting for our OWN country
> 
> Or you can say Russians were Fighting Others' battles
> 
> The Soviets were NOT as United as we HINDUS are
> 
> They were divided into 15 SUB Nationalities ; We HINDUS are united about Kashmir
> 
> You have NO idea ; WHEN ever the need arises
> 
> And when ever the Indian Government gives us civilians --permissions and weapons
> we can sort out this Kashmir problem in one day



Oooooo hindu bravery on display 

If the indian government gives hindus weapons that will be the day that india is broken permanently

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## Tipu7

SpArK said:


> We dont want to make the color of that river flowing into your territory to red....... *till now*.


Any ''red'' river in Pakistan will result in red ''Eco system'' in India .............


jha said:


> This will not be the last bullet IA fires at Furhans. Every one of these terrorists will be dispatched to graves.



Good luck







Stephen Cohen said:


> You can try
> But they are* NOT* interested


That is why I said they need ''polishing''




Stephen Cohen said:


> They know the reality of Pakistan ; what does Pakistan Offer to Indian Muslims



Its less about Pakistan, more about themselves

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## Stephen Cohen

hussain0216 said:


> Oooooo hindu bravery on display
> 
> If the indian government gives hindus weapons that will be the day that india is broken permanently



OK ; you are fully entitled to your opinions and beliefs 

But the FACTS on Kashmir will not change


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## IceCold

May Allah bless his soul and grant him a place in Jannat. India has to realize just because Washington is wooing it does not mean it can cover Kashmiri freedom under the pretext of terrorism. Kashmir is a problem that needs a solution, a solution that was promised to them through a referendum. If they chose to be with India it should be through that referendum. If India or Indian keyboard warriors think they can deny them that then they cannot be more wrong as evident from the looks of the funeral of this Burhan wani.

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## ranjeet

Is he scared for himself? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/751793139409686528

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## hussain0216

Stephen Cohen said:


> But what does it change on the ground
> 
> 
> 
> You can try
> But they are NOT interested
> 
> They know the reality of Pakistan ; what does Pakistan Offer to Indian Muslims



Freedom is a struggle, it dosent happen overnight the hearts of the Kashmiris have not been defeated or crushed, 

Pakistan is a growing power with a fast improving economy, not everything is about money sunshine, kashmir matches northern Pakistan in culture, faith and language 

They dont have anything familiar with dark, idol worshipping hindus that they would want to go with india

*India partitioned in the 1940s because we hated hindus and didn't want to live with them, uf Kashmir had justly as a Muslim majority state had the same fate, the sub continent could have moved on

Instead india created permanent emnity and division in South Asia by forcing a muslim state to live with a hindu nation*

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## SrNair

Tipu7 said:


> He was wrapped in Pakistani flag.
> Look at size his funeral, every one is Mujahid of freedom from Indian oppression.
> Indian will pay ten times, Kashmir is about to get hot in coming days ..............



And we will again repay that thousand times .
They can use peaceful methods to register their protests .But if he takes arms against state they will end up in unmarked graves and noone in this earth can change that reality.

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## Srinivas

hussain0216 said:


> Freedom is a struggle, it dosent happen overnight the hearts of the Kashmiris have not been defeated or crushed,
> 
> Pakistan is a growing power with a fast improving economy, not everything is about money sunshine, kashmir matches northern Pakistan in culture, faith and language
> 
> They dont have anything familiar with dark, idol worshipping hindus that they would want to go with india
> 
> *India partitioned in the 1940s because we hated hindus and didn't want to live with them, uf Kashmir had justly as a Muslim majority state had the same fate, the sub continent could have moved on
> 
> Instead india created permanent emnity and division in South Asia by forcing a muslim state to live with a hindu nation*



Come to Kashmir and start your struggle for independence here !


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## SrNair

Horus said:


> Soviet Union was also under a false impression of invincibility as India is.



Soviet Union wasnt a democracy .No matter how they shout ,rest of Indians wont allow their soldiers sacrifice go in vain .



IceCold said:


> May Allah bless his soul and grant him a place in Jannat. India has to realize just because Washington is wooing it does not mean it can cover Kashmiri freedom under the pretext of terrorism. Kashmir is a problem that needs a solution, a solution that was promised to them through a referendum. If they chose to be with India it should be through that referendum. If India or Indian keyboard warriors think they can deny them that then they cannot be more wrong as evident from the looks of the funeral of this Burhan wani.



We could handle Kashmir when we were bottom of the developing world with US wrath during 1990's .
Now no powers in this earth would dare to question our territorial integrity .
Kashmiris asked for this .What was their thought process when they drove out all those helpless Kashmiri Pandits and other minorities?

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## SrNair

hussain0216 said:


> Freedom is a struggle, it dosent happen overnight the hearts of the Kashmiris have not been defeated or crushed,
> 
> Pakistan is a growing power with a fast improving economy, not everything is about money sunshine, kashmir matches northern Pakistan in culture, faith and language
> 
> They dont have anything familiar with dark, idol worshipping hindus that they would want to go with india
> 
> *India partitioned in the 1940s because we hated hindus and didn't want to live with them, uf Kashmir had justly as a Muslim majority state had the same fate, the sub continent could have moved on
> 
> Instead india created permanent emnity and division in South Asia by forcing a muslim state to live with a hindu nation*



Well you can do whatever you want but we will decide our own policies .
Pakistan is not match against India.


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## jha

Tipu7 said:


> Any ''red'' river in Pakistan will result in red ''Eco system'' in India .............
> 
> 
> Good luck
> View attachment 316488
> 
> 
> That is why I said they need ''polishing''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its less about Pakistan, more about themselves



Dont think those many bullets will have to be fired. Less than 100 of those will take arms, and each one of those will dully receive the bullet I talked about.

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## SrNair

hussain0216 said:


> The pandits betrayed kashmir and they betrayed all Kashmiris by supporting a foreign dark hindu army and nation who does not match Kashmirs faith, culture or language who were suppressing the people.
> 
> The people rose up and the pandits paid for their betrayal



And people like Wani now paying for their so called 'rose up .
Pandits supported us and in this nation everyone has their own freedom,opinion .You can challenge that through democratic way .
Who gave them right to kill Pandits even if they stand with us?
Now all those poster boys ended up in graves.
This why we said ,you and your ideology will always fail .Time and again .

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## Srinivas

hussain0216 said:


> The pandits betrayed kashmir and they betrayed all Kashmiris by supporting a foreign dark hindu army and nation who does not match Kashmirs faith, culture or language who were suppressing the people.
> 
> The people rose up and the pandits paid for their betrayal



Just like Jews in Yathrib !


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## hussain0216

SrNair said:


> Well you can do whatever you want but we will decide our own policies .
> Pakistan is not match against India.


Pakistan will grow and because of your occupation of Kashmir and oppression and subjugation of its muslim population you have ensured our aim will be to cut you down.

The whole world s aware of the chain around indias neck, you cant boss your own neighbourhood because of the emnity you have created let alone anywhere else


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## American Pakistani

SpArK said:


> You are welcome to try.
> 
> If needed the rest of the 100s of millions can walk to kashmir from their homes and can show the troubled ones in valley what youth power is.
> 
> We dont want to make the color of that river flowing into your territory to red....... *till now*.
> 
> Just because they are doing all sort of anti-nationalism and we are keeping it low doesnt mean we will tolerate all the bullsh!t for a long period.
> 
> *We will *make sure the voices that keep coming from outside world remains in Forums like these or your foreign minister shouting it to ur medias for ur own consumption or the occasional emotional speeches in UN or in middle east.
> 
> Good LucK.



Sitting far away from IOK, in keraila, talking about IOK. Pathetic that the killing of thousands of Kashmiris doesn't bother you. Heck even when your own indian occupier terrorists get killed by kashmiris.

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## hussain0216

SrNair said:


> And people like Wani now paying for their so called 'rose up .
> Pandits supported us and in this nation everyone has their own freedom,opinion .You can challenge that through democratic way .
> Who gave them right to kill Pandits even if they stand with us?
> Now all those poster boys ended up in graves.
> This why we said ,you and your ideology will always fail .Time and again .



Freedom is important enough to pay any price

The pandits betrayal and fate was of their own making, they are no longer Kashmiris


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## SrNair

hussain0216 said:


> Pakistan will grow and because of your occupation of Kashmir and oppression and subjugation of its muslim population you have ensured our aim will be to cut you down.
> 
> The whole world s aware of the chain around indias neck, you cant boss your own neighbourhood because of the emnity you have created let alone anywhere else



Pakistan can grow .Agreed.

But that growth is simply no match for India .

Of Course you can try again ,like you did in 71.

Whole world can thought up any type of BS.
Neither they dare nor we allow to question our territorial integrity.



hussain0216 said:


> Freedom is important enough to pay any price
> 
> The pandits betrayal and fate was of their own making, they are no longer Kashmiris



Freedom of Sunnis wont find place among other minorities and Shias
And who are you to judge whether they are Kashmiris or not .



American Pakistani said:


> Sitting far away from IOK, in keraila, talking about IOK. Pathetic that the killing of thousands of Kashmiris doesn't bother you. Heck even when your own indian occupier terrorists get killed by kashmiris.



Says a man sitting in US

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## American Pakistani

SrNair said:


> Pakistan can grow .Agreed.
> 
> But that growth is simply no match for India .
> 
> Of Course you can try again ,like you did in 71.
> 
> Whole world can thought up any type BS.
> Neither they dare nor we allow to question our territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of Sunnis wont find place in other minorities and Shias
> And who are you to judge whether they are Kashmiris or not .
> 
> 
> 
> Says a man sitting in US



Yes indian kumar. It is because I care for humanity.

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## American Pakistani

SrNair said:


> Of Course Pakistani mullah .
> And I only cares about my own nation and its progress.



@HRK @Horus @WAJsal 

Why this indian dragging mullah and thing?

Can I mention him by calling,



> Of course bharti pandit,
> 
> Acting like a world largest hi po cray c and advertising yourself as world largest democracy is kind of hypocritic.

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## SpArK

American Pakistani said:


> Sitting far away from IOK, in keraila, talking about IOK. Pathetic that the killing of thousands of Kashmiris doesn't bother you. Heck even when your own indian occupier terrorists get killed by kashmiris.



And you sitting near Kashmir in a place called Amerika?



ranjeet said:


> Is he scared for himself?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/751793139409686528




Out of power... so singing bhangra..

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## MilSpec

Horus said:


> There will be more Burhans coming until the Hindutva run occupation of Muslim Kashmir is defeated and Indians are driven back home.


Sure... we will put holes in each of them... every burhan..... pick up arms against the Indian Union and we will guarantee nominal 5.56 mm holes for those who do, Irrespective of the government in the center. That's our unwavering promise.

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## SrNair

American Pakistani said:


> Why this indian dragging mullah and thing?
> 
> Can I mention him by calling,



Supporting radical people that kills innocent people is one job of mullahs .
You are one that support killers in here .
Let them ban me but I would be honest in my reply .


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## American Pakistani

SpArK said:


> And you sitting near Kashmir in a place called Amerika?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Out of power... so singing bhangra..



I'm sitting far but I do care about humanity whether in IOK, Palestine, Haiti, or any other xyz place.


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## Sergi

Guy was stupid anyways. Should have crossed the border if he had to do modeling on FB.

Ignoring a superior power in fight is just death wish. And may be a wrong man to be a leader 
I hope next one won't do a Photo-Op  ( but good if does  )

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## American Pakistani

SrNair said:


> Supporting radical people that kills innocent people is one job of mullahs .
> You are one that support killers in here .
> Let them ban me but I would be honest in my reply .



Whole Kashmiri population support him. In democracy majority have a say. Whttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/mar/05/india.theobserver)

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## SpArK

American Pakistani said:


> I'm sitting far but I do care about humanity whether in IOK, Palestine, Haiti, or any other xyz place.



There are places even worth looking for humanity restoration in ur country. Start trying from there.

Maybe check the growing number of radicals adding up each year....meanwhile we are also having same issues and checking it... then i may thing of commenting on xyz, haiti and abcd...

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## American Pakistani

SpArK said:


> There are places even worth looking for humanity restoration in ur country. Start trying from there.
> 
> Maybe check the growing number of radicals adding up each year....meanwhile we are also having same issues and checking it... then i may thing of commenting on xyz, haiti and abcd...



There is no starting or stopping. Where ever there are oppress humans there will be equal voice. Whether TTP/RAW terrorists killing innocent humans or Indian occupier terrorists killing innocent Kashmiris.

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## SpArK

American Pakistani said:


> There is no starting or stopping. Where ever there are oppress humans there will be equal voice. Whether TTP/RAW terrorists killing innocent humans or Indian occupier terrorists killing innocent Kashmiris.



Tired of hearing this same song for quite a long time....

Anyway regards... keep trying.

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## American Pakistani

SpArK said:


> Tired of hearing this same song for quite a long time....
> 
> Anyway regards... keep trying.



Not tired of watching innocent kashmiris getting oppressed by 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists but tired of hearing protests.

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## SrNair

American Pakistani said:


> Whole Kashmiri population support him. In democracy majority have a say. World largest hi po cray c should understand the defiantion of democracy before sacrificing people to make those stupid Pandits happy (*sick Pandits who say sacrificing kids *for* kali mata is *required for some xyz things https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/mar/05/india.theobserver)



Wrong .There are Hindus,Sikhs,Buddhists,Shias,Sunnis that opposes them in there .In a democracy noone believes in arms solution .If they do that then state will find them graves.

Well you dont have any rights to ridicule or mocks others religion and emotions .This is another job of mullahs .

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## F.O.X

SrNair said:


> Pakistan can grow .Agreed.
> 
> But that growth is simply no match for India .
> 
> Of Course you can try again ,like you did in 71.
> 
> Whole world can thought up any type of BS.
> Neither they dare nor we allow to question our territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of Sunnis wont find place among other minorities and Shias
> And who are you to judge whether they are Kashmiris or not .
> 
> 
> 
> Says a man sitting in US



The same growth that your own ruling party's Economist say is nothing more than inflated numbers ? 


PS : we tried in 47-48 as well .... Remember a little ????

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## Sergi

American Pakistani said:


> Not tired of watching innocent kashmiris getting oppressed by 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists but tired of hearing protests.


Actually yes. It's very boring now. I like the way Chinese deal with such problems. We are slow. India need to learn this skill from China and be done with it

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## illusion8

Tipu7 said:


> How? 0.7 Million Opression forces are on peace keeping mission in



Your entire army and paramilitary is deployed in your entire country...wondered why?.


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## SpArK

American Pakistani said:


> Not tired of watching innocent kashmiris getting oppressed by 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists but tired of hearing protests.



If the 7 lakh soldiers were terrorists, then there wouldn't have been a thread here to mourn.
The population wouldn't have grown.

But with them, the bomb blasts have stopped, only occasional radicalised gun carrying terrorist muthfacka gets killed each and every time and some hundreds of them come and mourn the death of that SOB.

Same old story.

You guys start your day thinking there is going to be some sorta revolution like that happened recently in middle east , the process of this dreaming has been going on for quite some time...

Well keep on dreaming .... and hope the words you type in ur keyboard comes true like magic and then kashmir becomes free and you dance with kashmiris singing bumbrooo bumbraooo shaam rang bumbroo..

Thats all.. no more talk.... carry on...

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## SrNair

F.O.X said:


> The same growth that your own ruling party's Economist say is nothing more than inflated numbers ?
> 
> 
> PS : we tried in 47-48 as well .... Remember a little ????



Who ??
Subramaniam Swamy .

I dont know about his theories and wild claims .
But what I can say is that I have a lots of friends and family pensioners (majority Central) in my family .Their pension increased 6 times during last 15 years .So I can agree with you .
Sorry Sir .

But 71 managed to end the parity prevailed in South Asia.


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## Iggy

For every terrorist killed in Kashmir, PDF is filled with bravado dialogues..Then again another one will bite the dust..We can afford to continue this game for a long time.. You can post brave dialogues sitting far from Kashmir and get the Kashmiries killed.. As long as someone else us in harms way, it is ur religious duty..

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## F.O.X

SrNair said:


> Who ??
> Subramaniam Swamy .
> 
> I dont know about his theories and wild claims .
> But what I can say is that I have a lots of friends and family pensioners (majority Central) in my family .Their pension increased 6 times during last five years .So I can agree with you .
> Sorry Sir .
> 
> But 71 managed to end the parity prevailed in South Asia.


Do you know what inflation is ? and how its effects the price and income ? and how pension actually works ?



Stephen Cohen said:


> They have brought upon this suffering on themselves
> 
> Unless they give up this desire of joining Pakistan ; They will neither get peace nor happiness
> 
> Kashmir's Muslim population is just 9 Million
> 
> India's population is 1300 Million



Just like Gandhi should have given up.... why did he suffer for so many years I wonder ???

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## zip

India can manage five Kashmir.. Law abiding, progressive kashmiries are doing well..Antinationals will be dealt accordingly.. Kashmir people have more freedom than average Indian citizen in our Constitution.. Heaven is full of ghosts for some people who have habit of living in hell..

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## ranjeet

American Pakistani said:


> I'm sitting far but I do care about humanity whether in IOK, Palestine, Haiti, or any other xyz place.


Humanity covers people from other religions too and the way you are dissing Kashmiri Pandits here you speak nowhere near for humanity.

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## [Bregs]

ranjeet said:


> Humanity covers people from other religions too and the way you are dissing Kashmiri Pandits here you speak nowhere near for humanity.



This one sided approach og good and bad terrorists policy has costed them dearly both in J&K n Afghanistan both but still same persistence

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## SrNair

F.O.X said:


> Do you know what inflation is ? and how its effects the price and income ? and how pension actually works ?



Well .I am an engineer ,but knows economics a bit .
Of Course inflation increased ,but 15 years ago there was nothing in there pocket after house expense .
But now they can maintain some balance in their account .
I know a guy .He is a Jawan in Army and actually a middle class guy with more than 30000/- rs salary .
After new pay commission there is a chance that even NCO have to give taxes to Govt .

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## Sergi

F.O.X said:


> Just like Gandhi should have given up.... why did he suffer for so many years I wonder ???


Gandhi was ready to die. Not to kill !!!!!

And OBL was fed to sharks this guy's body is handed over to family.

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## F.O.X

zip said:


> India can manage five Kashmir.. Law abiding, progressive kashmiries are doing well..Antinationals will be dealt accordingly.. Kashmir people have more freedom than average Indian citizen in our Constitution.. Heaven is full of ghosts for some people who have habit of living in hell..



There was a Time when British could manage Half the Planet .... didn't work out that way now did it ?



SrNair said:


> Well .I am an engineer ,but knows economics a bit .
> Of Course inflation increased ,but 15 years ago there was nothing in there pocket after house expense .
> But now they can maintain some balance in their account .
> I know a guy .He is a Jawan in Army and actually a middle class guy with more than 30000/- rs salary .
> After new pay commission there is a chance that even NCO have to give taxes to Govt .



Pension does not have anything to do with the economy... it all depends on how you invest the money.... you could make 10% return and give them Rs.1,000, also you can make a 100% return and still give them Rs.1,000... however this is not the topic... but I would be happy to explain it in detail if you want to.... just in another thread.

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## ranjeet

[Bregs] said:


> This one sided approach og good and bad terrorists policy has costed them dearly both in J&K n Afghanistan both but still same persistence


It costed them more within Pakistan but that's not my headache. These modern day wanna be Butshikans will feel the full might of Indian state.

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## SrNair

F.O.X said:


> There was a Time when British could manage Half the Planet .... didn't work out that way not did it ?



Well ,Kashmir is always with India for thousands of years .
Sri Shankaracharya completed his mission when he worshiped Sarvanjapeeth in Kashmir Valley .
That more than thousand years ago and he was from Kerala.

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## F.O.X

SrNair said:


> Well ,Kashmir is always with India for thousands of years .
> Sri Shankaracharya completed his mission when he worshiped Sarvanjapeeth in Kashmir Valley .
> That more than thousand years ago and he was from Kerala.


Pakistan was also with India since more than 1000 years... how did that turn out ?.... if you come down to examples I hardly doubt you will be able to win this argument this way...

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## SrNair

F.O.X said:


> There was a Time when British could manage Half the Planet .... didn't work out that way now did it ?
> 
> 
> 
> Pension does not have anything to do with the economy... it all depends on how you invest the money.... you could make 10% return and give them Rs.1,000, also you can make a 100% return and still give them Rs.1,000... however this is not the topic... but I would be happy to explain it in detail if you want to.... just in another thread.



But in this case the beneficiaries ,pensioners ,several times from thousand .
Agreed in another thread.


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## F.O.X

Sergi said:


> Gandhi was ready to die. Not to kill !!!!!
> 
> And OBL was fed to sharks this guy's body is handed over to family.


Remember a guy Named Bhaggat Singh... ??


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## Sergi

F.O.X said:


> There was a Time when British could manage Half the Planet .... didn't work out that way not did it ?
> 
> 
> .


What about the island ??? Falkland(?) I guess. Is Argentina getting it back. What's your opinion on that


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## zip

F.O.X said:


> There was a Time when British could manage Half the Planet .... didn't work out that way now did it ?
> 
> 
> 
> Pension does not have anything to do with the economy... it all depends on how you invest the money.... you could make 10% return and give them Rs.1,000, also you can make a 100% return and still give them Rs.1,000... however this is not the topic... but I would be happy to explain it in detail if you want to.... just in another thread.


True, selfish motives won't rule for long that's why I was confident of managing five Kashmir


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## SrNair

F.O.X said:


> Pakistan was also with India since more than 1000 years... how did that turn out ?.... if you come down to examples I hardly doubt you will be able to win this argument this way...



Not always ,those FATA,KPK area was always a problem,for Indian Kings ,Mughals and also Brits .AFAIK now even for PA .
But mainland India was always one ,Thousands of years of invasion couldnt change that.
Hinduism was the unique link of India .Some sections converted during thousands of years of invasion and brainwashing .So they got their land .But now India has a Constitution and religion wot work in there .


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## Iggy

F.O.X said:


> Remember a guy Named Bhaggat Singh... ??



Bhagat Singh know the consequences of his action.. He didnt ran away.. Not like some people who try to instigate violance in the name of religion.

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## Moonlight

SrNair said:


> Well ,Kashmir is always with India for thousands of years .
> Sri Shankaracharya completed his mission when he worshiped Sarvanjapeeth in Kashmir Valley .
> That more than thousand years ago and he was from Kerala.



Kashmir is NOT with India. India wants it to be with it. 10 of 1000s people attended his funeral & that's self explanatory they all want freedom from India.
Pity on Indian for talking about human rights while killing and oppressing innocents in Kashmir. And interestingly Indian believe interning their top freedom fighter and shutting down the social media will stop them to stand up & fight for freedom. Very cheap by India though.

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## F.O.X

Sergi said:


> What about the island ??? Falkland(?) I guess. Is Argentina getting it back. What's your opinion on that


not the same issue.. One country(UK) says they are with us because they want to.. the other (ARG) says they have no right in that matter the *land *belongs to us..... from the point I see it is the *people *who make the choice ....not the countries... if the majority wants independence they will get is one way or another ... if not today than tomorrow....



Iggy said:


> Bhagat Singh know the consequences of his action.. He didnt ran away.. Not like some people who try to instigate violance in the name of religion.


Trying to change the topic now are we ?? 

There is a difference between Religious Movements & Freedom Movements there is violence in both...

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## zip

Moonlight said:


> Kashmir is NOT with India. India wants it to be with it. 10 of 1000s people attended his funeral & that's self explanatory they all want freedom from India.
> Pity on Indian for talking about human rights while killing and oppressing innocents in Kashmir. And interestingly Indian believe interning their top freedom fighter and shutting down the social media will stop them to stand up & fight for freedom. Very cheap by India though.


When some terrorist dances naked with ak47 in the name of freedom, what will you do to him in your country??


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## F.O.X

SrNair said:


> Not always ,those FATA,KPK area was always a problem,for Indian Kings ,Mughals and also Brits .AFAIK now even for PA .
> But mainland India was always one ,Thousands of years of invasion couldnt change that.
> Hinduism was the unique link of India .Some sections converted during thousands of years of invasion and brainwashing .So they got their land .But now India has a Constitution and religion wot work in there .



True about northern areas ... false about Punjab and Sindh ... it is always the people who decide the fate of the land ... not the governments not the Empires... the only way you can keep Kashmir is by changing the principal views of Majority ... and you cannot change that with half a million soldiers pointing their guns on the heads of Kashmiri People... Raping their Women and Killing their children adds another variable in this mix.



zip said:


> True, selfish motives won't rule for long that's why I was confident of managing five Kashmir


you cannot even Manage one ..... and you are talking about Managing 5..... see the irony in here ?

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## Iggy

F.O.X said:


> Trying to change the topic now are we ??
> 
> There is a difference between Religious Movements & Freedom Movements there is violence in both...




Not at all.. but comparing Burhan with Bhagat singh is laughable..Bhagat Singh lead from front..He knew the consequnces of his action and he stood his ground where as Burhan posted some selfies in facebook.

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## F.O.X

Iggy said:


> Not at all.. but comparing Burhan with Bhagat singh is laughable..Bhagat Singh lead from front..He knew the consequnces of his action and he stood his ground where as Burhan posted some selfies in facebook.


Burhan also knew the Consequences .... he also stood his ground ... otherwise he would have been in Azad Kashmir in Pakistan .... fighting is not the only way to win a way ... I thought Gandhi taught you that ?? .... Burhan was fighting the war a different way ... you just cant comprehend it at this moment...

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## zip

F.O.X said:


> True about northern areas ... false about Punjab and Sindh ... it is always the people who decide the fate of the land ... not the governments not the Empires... the only way you can keep Kashmir is by changing the principal views of Majority ... and you cannot change that with half a million soldiers pointing their guns of the head of Kashmiri People... Raping their Women and Killing their children adds another variable in this mix.
> 
> 
> you cannot even Manage one ..... and you are talking about Managing 5..... see the irony in here ?


Agreed that Kashmir has problems.. But we dont have any problem in managing problematic Kashmir.. Those two are different things..


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## Iggy

F.O.X said:


> Burhan also knew the Consequences .... he also stood his ground ... otherwise he would have been in Azad Kashmir in Pakistan .... fighting is not the only way to win a way ... I thought Gandhi taught you that ?? .... Burhan was fighting the war a different way ... you just cant comprehend it at this moment...



Where he stood his ground? Hiding in a hole doesnt mean he stood his ground.. Gandhi taught us many things..Your burham is a coward who hide in his hole and instigating others to fight the holywar when he ws enjoying with multiple ladies..Some freedom fighter..lolz

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## American Pakistani

ranjeet said:


> Humanity covers people from other religions too and the way you are dissing Kashmiri Pandits here you speak nowhere near for humanity.



Exactly. And prove where am I dissing Kashmiri pandits?


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## IceCold

SrNair said:


> Kashmiris asked for this .What was their thought process when they drove out all those helpless Kashmiri Pandits and other minorities?



Again this whole happened after India intervened with force and continues to hold the territory hostage. Even if i were to take your argument at face value, Kashmir was and is still a Muslim majority area. Any referendum and India would be out which is why you dont do it.


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## F.O.X

zip said:


> Agreed that Kashmir has problems.. But we dont have any problem in managing problematic Kashmir.. Those two are different things..


Let me give you a hypothetical Scenario ... suppose you are a Manager of a employee owned Company ... but the people there don't want to work with you ... every day there are fights .. Strikes ... your productivity is falling by the day.....your workers are always talking about throwing you out whenever they have a chance and hire another manager.... but they cannot force you out since you have Security on your side .... no matter what incentives you give to your workers ... they simply want you gone ...... what do you call this ??? Managing the Company or Ruining the Company ?

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## F.O.X

Iggy said:


> Where he stood his ground? Hiding in a hole doesnt mean he stood his ground.. Gandhi taught us many things..Your burham is a coward who hide in his hole and instigating others to fight the holywar when he ws enjoying with multiple ladies..Some freedom fighter..lolz


last time when did your General Fight on the Front Lines???

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## Iggy

F.O.X said:


> last time when did your General Fight on the Front Lines???




You were the one comparing Burhan to Bhagat Singh..I show you the difference between the two.. Compare Burhan to Mullah Omar or like minded people.. not with someone who have spine..

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## Star Wars

F.O.X said:


> Let me give you a hypothetical Scenario ... suppose you are a Manager of a employee owned Company ... but the people there don't want to work with you ... every day there are fights .. Strikes ... your productivity is falling by the day.....your workers are always talking about throwing you out whenever they have a chance and hire another manager.... but they cannot force you out since you have Security on your side .... no matter what incentives you give to your workers ... they simply want you gone ...... what do you call this ??? Managing the Company or Ruining the Company ?



We leave Kashmir, loose access to its huge water resources, Either Kashmir ends up becoming a Jihadi menace or we will see Chinese flags over Kashmir in which case all these "freedom fighters" and stone pelters will end up in end of a bullet.
Tell me again, why should India shoot itself on its head ?


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## F.O.X

Iggy said:


> You were the one comparing Burhan to Bhagat Singh..I show you the difference between the two.. Compare Burhan to Mullah Omar or like minded people.. not with someone who have spine..


No You were the one brought up Bhagat Singh by Claiming there were no Violence from Indian Side during British Independence... Forgot already ?


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## ranjeet

American Pakistani said:


> Exactly. And prove where am I dissing Kashmiri pandits?





American Pakistani said:


> Whole Kashmiri population support him. In democracy majority have a say. World largest hi po cray c should understand the defiantion of democracy before sacrificing people to make those stupid Pandits happy (sick Pandits who say sacrificing kids for kali mata is required for some xyz things https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/mar/05/india.theobserver)



Would you care to elaborate on this?


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## Star Wars

F.O.X said:


> last time when did your General Fight on the Front Lines???



Any General has fought in the front lines at some point of time, Generals arn't directly recruited form collages


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## Iggy

F.O.X said:


> No You were the one brought up Bhagat Singh by Claiming there were no Violence from Indian Side during British Independence... Forgot already ?



I guess all those arguments made u dizzy.. read the comments and tell me where I mentioned it..


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## SrNair

Moonlight said:


> Kashmir is NOT with India. India wants it to be with it. 10 of 1000s people attended his funeral & that's self explanatory they all want freedom from India.
> Pity on Indian for talking about human rights while killing and oppressing innocents in Kashmir. And interestingly Indian believe interning their top freedom fighter and shutting down the social media will stop them to stand up & fight for freedom. Very cheap by India though.



Let them do what they want .They had a Chance ,A perfect Chance until 1990s when they invited Afghan Mujahideens to torture and kill minorities in the valley .India didnt created a RR until 1990s .But when they turn that in to an Islamic fundamentalism they destroyed the life of every one except Sunnis .So it was our GoI duty to protect minorities in there.
And we did that ,we are still doing that and will also do it in future .

Kashmir will be with India whether they ,you like or not .
Those who cant obey rules ,laws and principles of Indian Constitution can find other place ,irrespective of their RELIGION,ETHNICITY AND REGION.

If cheapness is what it takes to protect our nation, her integrity ,interest and sovreignity .We will do that .


F.O.X said:


> True about northern areas ... false about Punjab and Sindh ... it is always the people who decide the fate of the land ... not the governments not the Empires... the only way you can keep Kashmir is by changing the principal views of Majority ... and you cannot change that with half a million soldiers pointing their guns on the heads of Kashmiri People... Raping their Women and Killing their children adds another variable in this mix.
> 
> 
> 
> you cannot even Manage one ..... and you are talking about Managing 5..... see the irony in here ?



Of Course ,People of land will decide .In India , a democracy , majority opinion will prevail and few millions vested interests wont change that .


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## F.O.X

Star Wars said:


> We leave Kashmir, loose access to its huge water resources, Either Kashmir ends up becoming a Jihadi menace or we will see Chinese flags over Kashmir in which case all these "freedom fighters" and stone pelters will end up in end of a bullet.
> Tell me again, why should India shoot itself on its head ?


British also did not wanted to leave India ... Subcontinent was golden sparrow after all... tell me how did that end up ... ?? 

you cannot Opress movement of freedom if the Majority supports it..... no matter how strong you are ... if the people want independence you really have no choice ... you can delay it as much as possible ... but one day they will be free... look at your own history ...

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## SrNair

IceCold said:


> Again this whole happened after India intervened with force and continues to hold the territory hostage. Even if i were to take your argument at face value, Kashmir was and is still a Muslim majority area. Any referendum and India would be out which is why you dont do it.



That is exactly that we wont allow any so called refrendum BS in valley .
According to our GoI that is our land and wont allow any foreigners in there .


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## F.O.X

Star Wars said:


> Any General has fought in the front lines at some point of time, Generals arn't directly recruited form collages



Yes at that point they were not Called GENERALS ......



Iggy said:


> I guess all those arguments made u dizzy.. read the comments and tell me where I mentioned it..


My Mistake .. it was another one of your brethren..

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## jaunty

Horus said:


> There will be more Burhans coming until the Hindutva run occupation of Muslim Kashmir is defeated and Indians are driven back home.



True. There were many like him before and there will be many like him in the future. Kashmir will still be with India.

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## F.O.X

SrNair said:


> Of Course ,People of land will decide .In India , a democracy , majority opinion will prevail and few millions vested interests wont change that .



There is your principal problem ... you cannot decide for the people who DO NOT CONSIDER you a part of them...

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## Star Wars

F.O.X said:


> British also did not wanted to leave India ... Subcontinent was golden sparrow after all... tell me how did that end up ... ??



Irrelevant, Indians outnumbered the British , the Indian army navy and airforce was used to hold India. When revolt started within the army and navy. British had to let go. They had no other choice.



F.O.X said:


> you cannot Opress movement of freedom if the Majority supports it



Freedom movement lost its sympathy when they raped murdered and killed Kashmiri Pundits and destroyed temples in mass. These people do not deserve freedom. This is no freedom movement, this is a movement built by absolute hate for Hindus.



F.O.X said:


> ..... no matter how strong you are ... if the people want independence you really have no choice ... you can delay it as much as possible ... but one day they will be free... look at your own history ...



No they won't, Kashmir insurgency is dying. Compare their population of 7 million to 1.2 Billion. Kashmiri pundits shall be once again returned to their homeland. Now all govt. has to do is to allow Indians to immigrate into Kashmir.

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## Iggy

Horus said:


> There will be more Burhans coming until the Hindutva run occupation of Muslim Kashmir is defeated and Indians are driven back home.




We have seen dialogues like this many times..We have seen PDF filled witb dialogue like this when there was stone pelting.Then again Kashmir remained a part of India..We have seen that during Afzal Gurus death..Then again after all these false bravado nothing happened..Now its Burhan's turn..After couple of days he will also become another fool who died for nothing..

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## Star Wars

F.O.X said:


> Yes at that point they were not Called GENERALS ......
> .



What they are called is irrelevant, he was just some sore looser who was recruiting people from the valley and getting them killed while not having the balls to face the army himself. Considering how quickly he was nabbed, i doubt if he could even fire a weapon properly...


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## F.O.X

Star Wars said:


> Irrelevant, Indians outnumbered the British , the Indian army navy and airforce was used to hold India. When revolt started within the army and navy. British had to let go. They had no other choice.



Kashmiri's Outnumber you in their land.... there is a reason you have half a million of your Army there. 



> Freedom movement lost its sympathy when they raped murdered and killed Kashmiri Pundits and destroyed temples in mass. These people do not deserve freedom. This is no freedom movement, this is a movement built by absolute hate for Hindus.


Yes British had the same view... Indians were savages ... they did not deserve freedom .... and regarding your rape accusation got any independent source to confirm that .... I can however confirm through independent sources the Rapes.. Murders... committed by Indian Army... 




> No they won't, Kashmir insurgency is dying. Compare their population of 7 million to 1.2 Billion. Kashmiri pundits shall be once again returned to their homeland. Now all govt. has to do is to allow Indians to immigrate into Kashmir.


Well it is your ( or so you claim ) why cant you travel their freely ??

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## zip

F.O.X said:


> Let me give you a hypothetical Scenario ... suppose you are a Manager of a employee owned Company ... but the people there don't want to work with you ... every day there are fights .. Strikes ... your productivity is falling by the day.....your workers are always talking about throwing you out whenever they have a chance and hire another manager.... but they cannot force you out since you have Security on your side .... no matter what incentives you give to your workers ... they simply want you gone ...... what do you call this ??? Managing the Company or Ruining the Company ?


We Indians are little emotional then business minded.. So let us keep this company and manager aside and look the matter in emotional perspective.. Let us imagine another hypothetical scenario which is nearer to reality.. Imagine there are many children to a gentleman.. One of them has mental problem and wants to commit suicide every now and then.. Now what should father do? Is it helpful for the kid if father allows kid to kill himself or is it better to prevent it by any means?

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## F.O.X

Star Wars said:


> What they are called is irrelevant, he was just some sore looser who was recruiting people from the valley and getting them killed while not having the balls to face the army himself. Considering how quickly he was nabbed, i doubt if he could even fire a weapon properly...


lost against your own argument ... it matters a lot ... a soldiers decisions effects his platoon only ,... a generals affect the whole army ... this is kinda the only relevant thing ...


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## war&peace

He is a great freedom fighter. Fought with great conviction and embraced martyrdom. May Allah raise his ranks in paradise and make us follow his examplary path. Congratulations to his mother and family for being prood relatives of a martyr.. The struggle will continue and until each and every stinky Indian soldier is out of Kashmir.

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## Star Wars

F.O.X said:


> Kashmiri's Outnumber you in their land.... there is a reason you have half a million of your Army there.



We don't have a million army personal there, that is a myth. Kashmirs also came out to vote, They join the army, they join the police forces , they join the SOG , they join the VDN. So lets no brandish everyone as a freedom fighter. Kashmiri informers informed us about Kargil , about your 1965 operation and now a Kashmiri girl ratted out that idiots position.



F.O.X said:


> Yes British had the same view... Indians were savages ... they did not deserve freedom .... and regarding your rape accusation got any independent source to confirm that .... I can however confirm through independent sources the Rapes.. Murders... committed by Indian Army...



Don't act like nothing happened, you can do your own research on this and find out how many women were raped, killed chased from their home and their property sized by these Islamist fanatics. Terrorists along with idiot so called "freedom fighters" claiming Rapes while women themselves claiming there was no rape. Are you seriously that ignorant as to how militants operate ? Do you know why there are so many informants and why there are Village Defense committees of Kashmirs who fight the militants themselves ??



F.O.X said:


> Well it is your ( or so you claim ) why cant you travel their freely ??



I can travel there freely, i simply cannot settle there...



F.O.X said:


> lost against your own argument ... it matters a lot ... a soldiers decisions effects his platoon only ,... a generals affect the whole army ... this is kinda the only relevant thing ...



Right,now you are comparing some idiot 22 year old to Generals who would have served in the army more than this guy was even alive for ? Your argument itself is stupid.....


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## Basel

Why Pakistan has not started free wireless internet for occupied Kashmir? It can be good tool against Indian occupation.


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## F.O.X

zip said:


> We Indians are little emotional then business minded.. So let us keep this company and manager aside and look the matter in emotional perspective.. Let us imagine another hypothetical scenario which is nearer to reality.. Imagine there are many children to a gentleman.. One of them has mental problem and wants to commit suicide every now and then.. Now what should father do? Is it helpful for the kid if father allows kid to kill himself or is it better to prevent it by any means?



Except that the Child does not want to Commit suicide .. but wants to be independent .. because the father Rapped him several times... Shot at him ... and keeps him locked inside a cage ..... now this is more closer to reality...


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## zip

war&peace said:


> He is a great freedom fighter. Fought with great conviction and embraced martyrdom. May Allah raise his ranks in paradise and make us follow his examplary path. Congratulations to his mother and family for being prood relatives of a martyr.. The struggle will continue and until each and every stinky Indian soldier is out of Kashmir.


Freedom fighters always look great when they are fighting across the border.. Their reality only reveal when they sprout within your territory.

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## Jf Thunder

SrNair said:


> Who ??
> Subramaniam Swamy .
> 
> I dont know about his theories and wild claims .
> But what I can say is that I have a lots of friends and family pensioners (majority Central) in my family .Their pension increased 6 times during last 15 years .So I can agree with you .
> Sorry Sir .
> 
> But 71 managed to end the parity prevailed in South Asia.


obviously Kashmir and East Pakistan were the same right?


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## gubbi

Basel said:


> Why Pakistan has not started free wireless internet for occupied Kashmir? It can be good tool against Indian occupation.


Is there any such free wireless internet over such any swath of land in proper Pakistan?


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## American Pakistani

Sergi said:


> Actually yes. It's very boring now. I like the way Chinese deal with such problems. We are slow. India need to learn this skill from China and be done with it



You are not Chinese.



SrNair said:


> Wrong .There are Hindus,Sikhs,Buddhists,Shias,Sunnis that opposes them in there .In a democracy noone believes in arms solution .If they do that then state will find them graves.
> 
> Well you dont have any rights to ridicule or mocks others religion and emotions .This is another job of mullahs .



Majority supports them. Surveys and pictures are proof.

I'm not mocking but responding in the same attitude as yours.


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## zip

F.O.X said:


> Except that the Child does not want to Commit suicide .. but wants to be independent .. because the father Rapped him several times... Shot at him ... and keeps him locked inside a cage ..... now this is more closer to reality...


Oh.. I too had that doubt but after hearing from other children about loving and caring father I realized that it's this special son that have problem.. Hope everything goes well


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## 45'22'

F.O.X said:


> Except that the Child does not want to Commit suicide .. but wants to be independent .. because the father Rapped him several times... Shot at him ... and keeps him locked inside a cage ..... now this is more closer to reality...


Even more closer to reality
The kid is drugged by the neighbour bcuz the neighbor lost his cousin while fighting with the gentleman.The kid is so much addicted that he cant see that the father wants good things for him. He is not going to let go his son Bcuz there are some evil bastards waiting for that opportunity. 
The moral is father loves his son and no matter how difficult the things are he will always support his kid for the right thing and never let go.

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## F.O.X

Star Wars said:


> We don't have a million army personal there, that is a myth. Kashmirs also came out to vote, so lets no brandish everyone as a freedom fighter...


than why are you afraid of a simple referendum ... ? if by your logic majority is with you ... why not end this once and for all ?? 



> Don't act like nothing happened, you can do your own research on this and find out how many women were raped, killed chased from their home and their property sized by these Islamist fanatics. Terrorists along with idiot so called "freedom fighters" claiming Rapes while women themselves claiming there was no rape. Are you seriously that ignorant as to how militants operate ? Do you know why there are so many informants and why there are Village Defense committees of Kashmirs who fight the militants themselves ??


Research yourself is a phrase you use when you really dont have anything to show ... I did my research it seems you were not able to do yours... I know all about how militants operate we have been fighting them for decade now .. tell me how many Freedom fighters Blew themselves in public Areas ? 




> I can travel there freely, i simply cannot settle there...


I can travel to Afghanistan freely as well.... that does not make it mine.




> Right,now you are comparing some idiot 22 year old to Generals who would have served in the army more than this guy was even alive for ? Your argument itself is stupid.....


today 22 years old are Billionaires ... if you were stupid at 22 that does not mean everyone else is as well....

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## Basel

gubbi said:


> Is there any such free wireless internet over such any swath of land in proper Pakistan?



Its about supporting freedom struggle in Indian Occupied Kashmir that is why free wireless internet should be provided via WIFI. Like Google and others are planning for many places on earth.


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## American Pakistani

SpArK said:


> If the 7 lakh soldiers were terrorists, then there wouldn't have been a thread here to mourn.
> The population wouldn't have grown.
> 
> But with them, the bomb blasts have stopped, only occasional radicalised gun carrying terrorist muthfacka gets killed each and every time and some hundreds of them come and mourn the death of that SOB.
> 
> Same old story.
> 
> You guys start your day thinking there is going to be some sorta revolution like that happened recently in middle east , the process of this dreaming has been going on for quite some time...
> 
> Well keep on dreaming .... and hope the words you type in ur keyboard comes true like magic and then kashmir becomes free and you dance with kashmiris singing bumbrooo bumbraooo shaam rang bumbroo..
> 
> Thats all.. no more talk.... carry on...



Those 7 lakh muthfacka indian occupied terrorists can't do anything on large scale as they dont wanna get their traditions and culture get exposed in front of entire world. 

And you can dance jump twist or whatever but don't lecture others what to do.


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## 45'22'

American Pakistani said:


> Those 7 lakh muthfacka indian occupied terrorists can't do anything on large scale as they dont wanna get their traditions and culture get exposed in front of entire world.
> 
> And you can dance jump twist or whatever but don't lecture others what to do.


Is Raheel sharif a muthfucka as well?
Respect the soldiers



Basel said:


> Its about supporting freedom struggle in Indian Occupied Kashmir that is why free wireless internet should be provided via WIFI. Like Google and others are planning for many places on earth.


IA just needs the password lol....they will be downloading movies all the time free of cost

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## American Pakistani

ranjeet said:


> Would you care to elaborate on this?



When your compatriot called me mullah cuz i support kashmiri population, I respond in the same attitude calling him pandit who endorse sacrificing the kids to make some goddess happy.


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## Star Wars

F.O.X said:


> than why are you afraid of a simple referendum ... ? if by your logic majority is with you ... why not end this once and for all ??



Demographic has changed in the last 60 odd years, and i don't think folks willing to hold ISIS flags should be given a referendum vote



F.O.X said:


> Research yourself is a phrase you use when you really dont have anything to show ... I did my research it seems you were not able to do yours... I know all about how militants operate we have been fighting them for decade now .. tell me how many Freedom fighters Blew themselves in public Areas ?



26/11 was carried out by the said freedom fighters, not to mention the bomb blasts in the 90s and early 200s India had to endure was all done by the same "freedom fighters"



F.O.X said:


> I can travel to Afghanistan freely as well.... that does not make it mine.



Afghanistan is not under the Indian constitution



F.O.X said:


> today 22 years old are Billionaires ... if you were stupid at 22 that does not mean everyone else is as well....



And how is that even remotely related to my reply ?

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## Sipahi

MilSpec said:


> Sure... we will put holes in each of them... every burhan..... pick up arms against the Indian Union and we will guarantee nominal 5.56 mm holes for those who do, Irrespective of the government in the center. That's our unwavering promise.



Indian liberation movement started in 1850s and it take almost 100 years when gandhi delivered you libration. Same sort of claims were being made by Britishers but in the end they left and believe me you will left these land too, there are self destructive tendencies in hindus since they cant live together.

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## American Pakistani

45'22' said:


> Is Raheel sharif a muthfucka as well?
> Respect the soldiers
> 
> 
> IA just needs the password lol....they will be downloading movies all the time free of cost



No dalbir seeng is muthfacka. I don't respect 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists.

P.S if my post burned you that badly then ask your c countrymen not to use these words. I will respond in the same attitude to show you your aukaat.


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## Basel

45'22' said:


> Is Raheel sharif a muthfucka as well?
> Respect the soldiers
> 
> 
> IA just needs the password lol....they will be downloading movies all the time free of cost



That will be without password to make sure freedom of expression is available to IOK people and they can show real face of India to world.


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## 45'22'

Sipahi said:


> Indian liberation movement started in 1850s and it take almost 100 years when gandhi delivered you libration. Same sort of claims were being made by Britishers but in the end they left and believe me you will left these land too, there are self destructive tendencies in hindus since they cant live together.


since Ind and Pak were one b4 independence so say they bought us liberation not you....sexondly it was not gandhi rather the likes of bose,bhagat singh who fought for it. Thirdly,its easier said than done.....Kashmiris who dont want to be a part of India are free to go,we dont care about them,we will not give an inch of the land though

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## ranjeet

American Pakistani said:


> When your compatriot called me mullah cuz i support kashmiri population, I respond in the same attitude calling him pandit who endorse sacrificing the kids to make some goddess happy.



That link had nothing to do with Pandits.


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## 45'22'

American Pakistani said:


> No dalbir seeng is muthfacka. I don't respect 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists.
> 
> P.S if my post burned you that badly then ask your c countrymen not to use these words. I will respond in the same attitude to show you your aukaat.


If you reply in that tone even your soldiers will be abused....if you want that then go ahead.if dont then report and move on.


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## American Pakistani

ranjeet said:


> That link had nothing to do with Pandits.



It shows that "sacrificing kids for goddess" is not something that I made up. It is something allowed in some cultures hence the pandit support.


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## ranjeet

American Pakistani said:


> It shows that "sacrificing kids for goddess" is not something that I made up. It is something allowed in some cultures hence the pandit support.


Did you even read the whole article before posting the link?


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## 45'22'

Basel said:


> That will be without password to make sure freedom of expression is available to IOK people and they can show real face of India to world.


Arrey bhai mere.....if you give free internet all we have to do is send some youth there.....4k ke 50-100 videos download karlenge toh internet ainvayi khatam ho jana hai 

Do something which is practical and might actually help them

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## Areesh

It is funny that Indians have this feeling of superiority and invincibility. A country that was ruled by foreigners just 7 decades ago. At least Americans have 240 years of being indepedent. Soviets had centuries of free rule and power. What the f*ck these jerks have to show except British and mughal rule?? Even 35% of the same atoot ang that Indians proudly boost to never give up is with Pakistan. Chinese kicked them out of Aksai Chin just 54 years ago.

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## American Pakistani

Areesh said:


> It is funny that Indians have this feeling of superiority and invincibility. A country that was ruled by foreigners just 7 decades ago. At least Americans have 240 years of being indepedent. Soviets had centuries of free rule and power. What the f*ck these jerks have to show except British and mughal rule?? Even 35% of the same atoot ang that Indians proudly boost to never give up is with Pakistan.



Remember that you are talking about india.

Their country is surviving on English name "india" which was derived from "Sindh" in Pakistan. So much for "indianness".

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## Areesh

45'22' said:


> Its funny Pak are proud of their religion....a religion which didnt existed before 7th century and whose forefathers were forcefully converted and they didnt had the guts to even oppose them lol



Not only Pakistanis at least 14% of your population is also proud of the same religion. Go share this bullsh!t with them.

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## Areesh

Star Wars said:


> Indian Muslims arn't wannabe Arab slaves, they are proud Indians...



Really? As far as I know they name themselves and their children on names that are mostly Arabic. Want examples??

Do you know what does Zakir or Abdul Kalam mean? Both are Arabic words kiddo. 

PS: Abdul Kalam and Zakir are names of former Indian presidents.



45'22' said:


> Similarly the country you were talking about a few seconds earlier,your parents and grand parents were a part of that country. Go and tell them this bullshit that were oppressed by britishers



True. That's why they abandoned it.

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## Basel

45'22' said:


> Its funny Pak are proud of their religion....a religion which didnt existed before 7th century and whose forefathers were forcefully converted and they didnt had the guts to even oppose them lol



Post Reported.

@waz @Horus @WebMaster please ban all similar members.


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## 45'22'

Areesh said:


> Really? As far as I know they name themselves and their children on names that mostly Arabic. Want examples??
> 
> Do you know what does Zakir or Abdul Kalam mean? Both are Arabic words kiddo.
> 
> PS: Abdul Kalam and Zakir are names of former Indian presidents.
> 
> 
> 
> True. That's why they abandoned it.


That's not something one should be proud of


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## Star Wars

Areesh said:


> Really? As far as I know they name themselves and their children on names that mostly Arabic. Want examples??
> 
> Do you know what does Zakir or Abdul Kalam mean? Both are Arabic words kiddo.



And an entire culture is built around just Names ? Unlike the folks in the west who are confused as **** about their identity Indians and Indian Muslims are not. They respect other religions, other cultures and believe in Indianness

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## 45'22'

Basel said:


> Post Reported.
> 
> @waz @Horus @WebMaster please ban all similar members.


My posts stays as long the comment i reply to stays 
Didnt meant to hurt other members feeling though


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## Areesh

Star Wars said:


> And an entire culture is built around just Names ? Unlike the folks in the west who are confused as **** about their identity Indians and Indian Muslims are not. They respect other religions, other cultures and believe in Indianness



They also recite Arabic during prayers. They also follow a religion that started from Arabia. They based their marriage and funerals based on traditions as per that religion. Their daily life is based on similar arabic culture. Still not arabic enough???

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## lightoftruth

Star Wars said:


> And an entire culture is built around just Names ? Unlike the folks in the west who are confused as **** about their identity Indians and Indian Muslims are not. They respect other religions, other cultures and believe in Indianness



Why bother ? their entire existence is based on that lie of TNT which got royally screwed in 1971.

will happen again with baluchistan maybe this time for good.

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## Star Wars

Areesh said:


> They also recite Arabic during prayers. They also follow a religion that started from Arabia. They based their marriage and funerals based on traditions as per that religion. Their daily life is based on similar arabic culture. Still not arabic enough???







Listen to this dude, and he is supposed to have the most extreme views..

Muslim women wear a sari, wear Indian dress , Muslim ladies also wear bindi and bangles, they come out a celibrate Holi their culture has been well mixed with Indian Culture over a period of Decades. During school on friday's i used to visit mosques in order to skip a certain teacher, my Muslim friends used to come with me to temples. Its Hilarious you are trying to teach me about my own countrymen. You don't have a clue of what India is.....

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## gubbi

Basel said:


> Its about supporting freedom struggle in Indian Occupied Kashmir that is why free wireless internet should be provided via WIFI. Like Google and others are planning for many places on earth.


Who is going to provide that free internet? Your government?
And fyi, no matter how hoarse one might tickle their throats by shouting, Kashmir is not an "independence movement", it's a political problem, which can be solved by provisions found within the Indian Constitution provided there is political will. From both sides of the table.


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## Areesh

Star Wars said:


> Listen to this dude, and he is supposed to have the most extreme views..
> 
> Muslim women wear a sari, wear Indian dress , Muslim ladies also wear bindi and bangles, they come out a celibrate Holi their culture has been well mixed with Indian Culture over a period of Decades. During school on friday's i used to visit mosques in order to skip a certain teacher, my Muslim friends used to come with me to temples. Its Hilarious you are trying to teach me about my own countrymen. You don't have a clue of what India is.....



I have perfect clue of what India is. Muslim women commonly wear burqa. Even more than Pakistani women. Is burqa Indian culture? They wear scarf. Is scarf your culture. They eat meat(beef or no beef) and do all rituals as per arabic traditions. When a Muslim child is born in any Indian family, azaan is recited in his ears. That azaan itself is in Arabic. Every Indian muslim who comes to this world hears arabic more than anything else. There are thousands of Madarsas in India. They learn arabic their. At least 80-90% names of Indian muslims are arabic. 

I have clue of what India is and I am saying Indian muslims also practice the same Arabic culture as Pakistanis. Even the guy in the video follows the same arabic culture more than anyone else. He starts his speech with Arabic and ends it with Arabic. I have seen his many videos. So cut me this cr@p that our muslims don't follow arabic etc.

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## Star Wars

Areesh said:


> I have perfect clue of what India is. Muslim women commonly wear burqa. Even more than Pakistani women. Is burqa Indian culture? They wear scarf. Is scarf your culture. They eat meat(beef or no beef) and do all rituals as per arabic traditions. When a Muslim child is born in any Indian family, azaan is recited in his ears. That azaan itself is in Arabic. Every Indian muslim who comes to this world hears arabic more than anything else. There are thousands of Madarsas in India. They learn arabic their. At least 80-90% names of Indian muslims are arabic.
> 
> I have clue of what India is and I am saying Indian muslims also practice the same Arabic culture as Pakistanis. Even the guy in the video follows the same arabic culture more than anyone else. He starts his speech with Arabic and ends it with Arabic. I have seen his many videos. So cut me this cr@p that our muslims don't follow arabic etc.



Again, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You will only find Burqa in a few places, but majority of muslim women don't always wear and neither are they forced to wear it. You do realize Muslims in India do other things than learning Arabic and going to Mosques right ?  did you mistake this with Pakistan by any chance ? Again, their culture and way of life is a mixture of Indian , western culture mixed with minor aspects of Arabic culture. The first mosque in India was in Kerala in 629AD, many of South Indian Muslims have during a period of generations mixed well along with Indians...

@fsayed Can you please educated this tool ?

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## Basel

gubbi said:


> Who is going to provide that free internet? Your government?
> And fyi, no matter how hoarse one might tickle their throats by shouting, Kashmir is not an "independence movement", it's a political problem, which can be solved by provisions found within the Indian Constitution provided there is political will. From both sides of the table.



you need burnol.


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## Areesh

Star Wars said:


> Again, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. They don't commonly wear Burqa , you will only find Burqa in a few places, but majority of muslim women don't wear and neither are they forced to wear it. You do realize Muslims in India do other things than learning Arabic and going to Mosques right ?  did you mistake this with Pakistan by any chance ? Again, their culture and way of life is a mixture of Indian , western and Arabic culture depending on their location,
> 
> @fsayed Can you please educated this tool ?



I have complete idea in what I am saying. It is just you who are fooling yourself since you have absolutely no idea what Islam is and what Indian muslims follow. They follow arabs more than many other Muslim nations like Turks or Iranians. There are thousands of Mosques in India and we surely know nobody prays in Hindi in them 

So don't lecture me. We live in a world of internet. I don't need someone with a muslim profile name on PDF to guide me about Indian muslims. So buddy it is better that you stop negating something that is as obvious as arabic influence on Indian muslims.

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## Star Wars

Areesh said:


> I have complete idea in what I am saying. It is just you who are fooling yourself since you have absolutely no idea what Islam is and what Indian muslims follow. They follow arabs more than many other Muslim nations like Turks or Iranians. There are thousands of Mosques in India and we surely know nobody prays in Hindi in them



They pray in da mosques in Arabic so its Arabic culture  Its not my fault Arabic culture is reduced to such simplicity. There is a reason why Indian Muslims are a million times better off than the pious folks killing each other in the middle east... 



Areesh said:


> So don't lecture me. We live in a world of internet. I don't need someone with a muslim profile name on PDF to guide me about Indian muslims. So buddy it is better that you stop negating something that is as obvious as arabic influence on Indian muslims.



Of course, considering the amount of conspiracy theories you people believe i am sure you believe every tom dick and harry on the internet who agrees with you  Truth is , you are living in Denial. 

If they really had Arabic influence we would have seen a shia , sunni conflict along with Ahmedi's being on the receiving end from both sides...

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## Areesh

Star Wars said:


> They pray in da mosques in Arabic so its Arabic culture  Its not my fault Arabic culture is reduced to such simplicity. There is a reason why Indian Muslims are a million times better off than the pious folks killing each other in the middle east...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, considering the amount of conspiracy theories you people believe i am sure you believe every tom dick and harry on the internet who agrees with you  Truth is , you are living in Denial.
> 
> If they really had Arabic influence we would have seen a shia , sunni conflict along with Ahmedi's being on the receiving end from both sides...



Yeah there is no arabic influence on Indian muslims. They don't celebrate eid. They don't know what is Ramzan. They don't name their children on arabic names. They don't even know what is a mosque. They just throw their dead in sea after the death. They don't have Nikah when they marry. They don't recite Quran for their dead. They don't call themselves Syed. They don't follow any Sufi Saint nearly all of whom came from the same lineage that goes back to Arab. They just chant Jai Shree Ram everyday and every second for no reason. I agree with you. 


That guy Asad uddin Owaisi whose video you shared. His name Asad is spanish and owaisi is french. And Ahmedis are considered muslims by every Indian muslim. Jao khush ho hao

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## Star Wars

Areesh said:


> Yeah there is no arabic influence on Indian muslims. They don't celebrate eid. They don't know what is Ramzan. They don't name their children on arabic names. They don't even know what is a mosque. They just throw their dead in sea after the death. They don't have Nikah when they marry. They don't recite Quran for their dead. They don't call themselves Syed. They don't follow any Sufi Saint nearly all of whom came from the same lineage that goes back to Arab. They just chant Jai Shree Ram everyday and every second for no reason. I agree with you.
> 
> 
> And yes I am in denial. That guy Asad uddin Owaisi whose video you shared. His name Asad is spanish and owaisi is french. Jao khush ho hao.



Again, everything you say is related to their religion, if you think an entire culture and way of life and life style is simply the "religious stuff" then i pity you. Besides, not everyone does all those things, a rather considerable number of Indians Muslims in Urban areas are atheists who don't go to mosque or fast or do the stuff you think they do. Everything you have told me until now is about Islam as a religion. You have been living ion a closed door rigid society for so long you very perception of culture is limited to "They go to mosque and do religious stuff"  Ignore the language, dress, food, culture , way of life. Even local mosques have sermons in local language and not Arabic.


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## Areesh

Star Wars said:


> Again, everything you say is related to their religion, if you think an entire culture and way of life and life style is simply the "religious stuff" then i pity you. *Besides, not everyone does all those things, a rather considerable number of Indians Muslims in Urban areas are atheists *who don't go to mosque or fast or do the stuff you think they do. Everything you have told me until now is about Islam as a religion. You have been living ion a closed door rigid society for so long you very perception of culture is limited to "They go to mosque and do religious stuff"  Ignore the language, dress, food, culture , way of life. Even local mosques have sermons in local language and not Arabic.



Their language, dress, food, culture, way of life all have arabic influence. And having sermons in local language is not a biggie. Happens everywhere. Yeah prayer after the sermon is always in Arabic. 

*Bold Part*: You such a big idiot. You are saying Indian muslims who are atheists. Dear you might have no idea but if someone is atheist then he is not a muslim in the first place. Indian or not. You can't be a muslim and atheist at the same time in Islam. LOL at Indian muslims who are atheists. What next?? Indian muslims who are christians or Indian muslims who are jews. 

Anyways there is no point discussing anything so obvious with you. We all know you are a " Certified Hindutvadi Terrorist". No point discussing Indian muslims with a khaki chaddi warrior.

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## Star Wars

Areesh said:


> Their language, dress, food, culture, way of life all have arabic influence. And having sermons in local language is not a biggie. Happens everywhere. Yeah prayer after the sermon is always in Arabic.



No they don't, now you are simply talking out of your rear end. Many of the Muslims i have spoken to don't even know Arabic. ANd i am talking about Muslims who actually go to the mosque. Many who can speak, cant read or write, especially in Urban areas and cities, simply repeating the same sentence again and again and is not going to change it.



Areesh said:


> *Bold Part*: You such a big idiot. You are saying Indian muslims who are atheists. Dear you might have no idea but if someone is atheist then he is not a muslim in the first place. Indian or not. You can't be a muslim and atheist at the same time in Islam. LOL at Indian muslims who are atheists. What next?? Indian muslims who are christians or Indian muslims who are jews.



The fact that they are atheists is an example of influence of Indian culture, if there was no Indian cultural influence, they would not be Atheists. Do i need to spoon feed everything ?



Areesh said:


> Anyways there is no point discussing anything so obvious with you. We all know you are a " Certified Hindutvadi Terrorist". No point discussing Indian muslims with a khaki chaddi warrior.



"HIndutvadi terrorists" and "Khakhi Chaddi warriors" are far far far ahead of anything the Muslim world had to offer in the last couple of 100 years..


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## Areesh

Star Wars said:


> No they don't, now you are simply talking out of your rear end. Many of the Muslims i have spoken to don't even know Arabic. ANd i am talking about Muslims who actually go to the mosque. Many who can speak, cant read or write, especially in Urban areas and cities, simply repeating the same sentence again and again and is not going to change it.



You don't need to know arabic to be a muslim. I don't know arabic. You just need to know necessary arabic to offer prayers. You can do that with a few surahs and verses. If they are going to mosques and don't even know a single verse or Surah then they are wasting their time. There is no point going to mosque if you don't know how to pray. I feel sorry for those guys. 



> The fact that they are atheists is an example of influence of Indian culture, if there was no Indian cultural influence, they would not be Atheists. Do i need to spoon feed everything ?



Lol their are atheists everywhere. I have seen atheists in Pakistan. I have seen many of them in Iran. In Turkey. Even in Arab world. You are getting more stupid with every post. 



> "HIndutvadi terrorists" and "Khakhi Chaddi warriors" are far far far ahead of anything the Muslim world had to offer in the last couple of 100 years..



Yeah that's why many of the muslim countries actually rank far above India on HDI.

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## fsayed

Star Wars said:


> Again, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You will only find Burqa in a few places, but majority of muslim women don't always wear and neither are they forced to wear it. You do realize Muslims in India do other things than learning Arabic and going to Mosques right ?  did you mistake this with Pakistan by any chance ? Again, their culture and way of life is a mixture of Indian , western culture mixed with minor aspects of Arabic culture. The first mosque in India was in Kerala in 629AD, many of South Indian Muslims have during a period of generations mixed well along with Indians...
> 
> @fsayed Can you please educated this tool ?


Bro I tried but they r blind with 2 eyes with full eyesight

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## Areesh

fsayed said:


> Bro I tried but they r blind with 2 eyes with full eyesight



Do explain your compatriot what being sayed is. Even that has complete arabic connection behind it.

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## fsayed

Areesh said:


> Do explain your compatriot what being sayed is. Even that has complete arabic connection behind it.


I know that . Hasab nasab kaam nahi aayega muhammad pbuh said Fatima is guman me mat rehna ki tu meri beti hai upper sirf nek amal kaam aayenge. So follow him do ibadat save others life sirf naam musalmaan wala hone se koi imaan wala nahi hota

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## Areesh

fsayed said:


> I know that . Hasab nasab kaam nahi aayega muhammad pbuh said Fatima is guman me mat rehna ki tu meri beti hai upper sirf nek amal kaam aayenge. So follow him do ibadat save others life sirf naam musalmaan wala hone se koi imaan wala nahi hota



Agreed. Fully agreed. But what I love is that your compatriot asked you to explain to me that Indian muslims don't have arabic influence. While the fact is that sayed is completely arabic and islamic thing. 

@Mentee 

Don't you find it funny?

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## Jackdaws

The sheer number of people supporting this man is rather disconcerting. What is worse is that neither such Kashmiri youth nor their backers understand the level of India's resolve. Countries cede territories when they see themselves as "occupiers" or are beaten in a real war. India doesn't see itself as an occupier and neither does its population. And Pak is not winning a conventional war against India. This cycle will continue unabated. The status quo will remain. And people will keep dying.



Areesh said:


> Agreed. Fully agreed. But what I love is that your compatriot asked you to explain to me that Indian muslims don't have arabic influence. While the fact is that sayed is completely arabic and islamic thing.
> 
> @Mentee
> 
> Don't you find it funny?



I think the difference is - does Arabic culture influence Indian Muslims or are you referring to the language? Those are two distinct things. A culture influences through traits like music, dressing, diet, social customs etc. Indian Muslims are obviously steeped in Indian sub-cultures depending on their state - like Bangladeshi Muslims are steeped in Bengali culture. And that is generally the case the world over. The Americans speak English; no one says they have British culture. The only ones I've seen rejecting their sub-culture is Pakistani Punjabis - it is almost they are too embarrassed to embrace their own history and tradition.

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## fsayed

Areesh said:


> Agreed. Fully agreed. But what I love is that your compatriot asked you to explain to me that Indian muslims don't have arabic influence. While the fact is that sayed is completely arabic and islamic thing.
> 
> @Mentee
> 
> Don't you find it funny?


Bhai major of indian Muslim only knows to recite Quran that 2 in many languages arabic Hindi Urdu English etc if somebody read surah orally in front u .u will think he knows how to read Quran in arabic but actually he learned in other languages.even after I recite Quran in arabic but still I don't know the meaning of Arabic words

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## IceCold

SrNair said:


> That is exactly that we wont allow any so called refrendum BS in valley .
> According to our GoI that is our land and wont allow any foreigners in there .


That is the same BS your leaders promised. So either they were bull shitting then or they are bullshitting it now. Either way you GOI has no moral authority and anything they say is not acceptable unless Kashmiris themselves chose and agree.

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## Areesh

Jackdaws said:


> I think the difference is - does Arabic culture influence Indian Muslims or are you referring to the language? Those are two distinct things. A culture influences through traits like music, dressing, diet, social customs etc. Indian Muslims are obviously steeped in Indian sub-cultures depending on their state - like Bangladeshi Muslims are steeped in Bengali culture. And that is generally the case the world over. The Americans speak English; no one says they have British culture. The only ones I've seen rejecting their sub-culture is *Pakistani Punjabis* - it is almost they are too embarrassed to embrace their own history and tradition.



I am not a punjabi but I am yet to see a Punjabi who speaks in arabic. 



fsayed said:


> Bhai major of indian Muslim only knows to recite Quran that 2 in many languages arabic Hindi Urdu English etc if somebody read surah orally in front u .u will think he knows how to read Quran in arabic but actually he learned in other languages.*even after I recite Quran in arabic but still I don't know the meaning of Arabic words*



Happens with me too buddy. But the thing is you need arabic to say your prayers. You can't say your prayers in Urdu or Hindi. As for Islam and arabic. In one way or the other it has influence on our lives. We can debate about the extent of influence but can't deny its existence as said by your "certified hindutva terrorist" friend.

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## Sergi

F.O.X said:


> Remember a guy Named Bhaggat Singh... ??


Yes offcouse. But it was the last thing a expect from a Muslim member 
It is the exact opposite example. Do read "why m I an atheist" 



F.O.X said:


> Yes at that point they were not Called GENERALS ......
> 
> 
> My Mistake .. it was another one of your brethren..


You are the one who mention Gandhi - the most religious & non violent person
& Bhagat sing - an atheist who smoke bomb assembly and stood his ground

To compare
Whom !!!!! A religious fantic ????

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## dadeechi

If this were to be in China, all that terror mob would have been 6 feet under..

India is a soft state and is incapable of taking harsh action against terror.

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## Pandora

Stephen Cohen said:


> They have brought upon this suffering on themselves
> 
> Unless they give up this desire of joining Pakistan ; They will neither get peace nor happiness
> 
> Kashmir's Muslim population is just 9 Million
> 
> India's population is 1300 Million



The movement for independence for pakistan started with just few hundred people as well but it ripped india into three pieces.

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## Sipahi

45'22' said:


> since Ind and Pak were one b4 independence so say they bought us liberation not you....sexondly it was not gandhi rather the likes of bose,bhagat singh who fought for it. Thirdly,its easier said than done.....Kashmiris who dont want to be a part of India are free to go,we dont care about them,we will not give an inch of the land though



Where I have said we delivered you ???

Burhan was the Kashmiri version of Bhagat and Bose.

Kashmir Bane ga Pakistan.

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## 45'22'

Sipahi said:


> Where I have said we delivered you ???
> 
> Burhan was the Kashmiri version of Bhagat and Bose.
> 
> Kashmir Bane ga Pakistan.


Nahi banega...be practical


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## Sipahi

45'22' said:


> Nahi banega...be practical



Bane ga... hr soorat bane ga !!!!

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## 45'22'

Sipahi said:


> Bane ga... hr soorat bane ga !!!!


All the best then

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## Sipahi

45'22' said:


> All the best then



Thank you, it good that enemies also wishing us luck.

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## dray

Horus said:


> There will be more Burhans coming until the Hindutva run occupation of Muslim Kashmir is defeated and Indians are driven back home.





Horus said:


> Soviet Union was also under a false impression of invincibility as India is.



Just to make a point clear, we Indians will never allow savage religious bigotry and brute majoritarianism to win in Kashmir...whatever-the-cost-may-be. 

Militants in Kashmir, both foreign and domestic, have reduced from thousands once to less than two hundred now. I don't know how many Burhans will come, but I can guarantee that all of them will end up like Burhan. You can bet your life on that.

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## war&peace

zip said:


> Freedom fighters always look great when they are fighting across the border.. Their reality only reveal when they sprout within your territory.


Kashmir is our own land just occupied by India and they are fighting for freedom.



dadeechi said:


> If this were to be in China, all that terror mob would have been 6 feet under..
> 
> India is a soft state and is incapable of taking harsh action against terror.


You do that and then Pakistan will char you into oblivion.

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## SrNair

IceCold said:


> That is the same BS your leaders promised. So either they were bull shitting then or they are bullshitting it now. Either way you GOI has no moral authority and anything they say is not acceptable unless Kashmiris themselves chose and agree.




That was then and this is now .Times changed ,nation changed ,leaders and entire generation changed .

Well ,for GoI (as an Indian and this what I could understand ) ,if destiny gives two choices to them in two platters,one is moral authority and other is national interest and integrity .They will choose that second on without a single iota of doubt .No matter how ruthless and brutal it may be .
And that is why we gives taxes,salaries and votes for them .That is their duty .



F.O.X said:


> There is your principal problem ... you cannot decide for the people who DO NOT CONSIDER you a part of them...



Whether they want to be a part of us or not ,that is their choice .
But it is our right to decide and enforces the principles of our constitution .
Of Course they can disagree .But our constitution also gives some concession for it ,they can chose that wisely but if they takes arms against state ,then the Constitution will show its ruthless side through us .
Our Constitution already cleared the boundary ,history etc of our nation .Those who dont want to be a part of us(anyone from Kashmir to Kanyakumari) can find some other places .


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## CorporateAffairs

Whatever these scum try to do, not an inch of Kashmir will be seperated from India.
Kashmir (Kashmir under pak, Aksai Chin) is an integrated part of the India union.


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## SrNair

Jf Thunder said:


> obviously Kashmir and East Pakistan were the same right?



You think so .right ?


American Pakistani said:


> You are not Chinese.
> 
> 
> 
> Majority supports them. Surveys and pictures are proof.
> 
> I'm not mocking but responding in the same attitude as yours.



From five districts ,I would say ,
Rest of them and minorities says otherwise .

If my attitude was like yours ,then you could have see some other things in my post.


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## Jf Thunder

SrNair said:


> You think so .right ?


Kashmir was disputed from the start, while East Pakistan never was


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## Stealth

Stephen Cohen said:


> They have brought upon this suffering on themselves
> 
> Unless they give up this desire of joining Pakistan ; They will neither get peace nor happiness
> 
> Kashmir's Muslim population is just 9 Million
> 
> India's population is 1300 Million



And faith ideology 13000000000 trillion!


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## danger007

Armed resistance another form of ... Nice nice... since 6 decades trying hard ... try fir another 6decades ... result will be same..


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## SrNair

Jf Thunder said:


> Kashmir was disputed from the start, while East Pakistan never was



Then East Pakistan gone for good .But Kashmir is still in there ,with us, means.?


----------



## American Pakistani

SrNair said:


> You think so .right ?
> 
> 
> From five districts ,I would say ,
> Rest of them and minorities says otherwise .
> 
> If my attitude was like yours ,then you could have see some other things in my post.



You can come with all your bull crap of 5 district or 5 states. The fact that matters is it happens in IOK sometimes in the valley and sometimes in Jammu. Majority don't want indian occupier terrorists there.



Sergi said:


> Yes. That's why we didn't roll the tanks on funeral  Shame would have got rid of good numbers
> 
> And all Pakistani's dare not question religious sterilization in China. They don't even allow beard



Your balls does not exists physically. Your poor country cannot afford to do that and risk alienating entire muslim world from where you guys get feeding.


----------



## WAJsal

Edit: To all the Indian members i am a Gilgiti(and a proud Pakistani) and would prefer if you take my views from a neutral perspective.

RIP to the innocents who had to die; when will India learn that such use of force on civilians is only going to create more problems? Only going to urge the youth to take up arms...

I was disgusted by some of the comments Indian members had made regarding these protesters, labeling them all terrorists and celebrating their death. They are local people, opposing your forces, how blind and delusional are you going to get?







And secondly, i would want Indina members to ask themselves a few things, but first let take a look at these images...

















Are these just 50 peoples who have been paid 50 rupees by the ISI in the funeral? (that logic btw)

Are these just a small faction of people in Jammu Kashmir? (PS: Curfew, mobile service and internet service cut-off)

What result is killing innocent people protesting for their rights going to yield? instead of more chaos.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Indian intellectuals need to stand up, how long are they going to keep quite on these issues(Seriously @Joe Shearer , and i guess you have remained in-active for the very reason. I hope you don't go through some of the threads, the filth is unbearable). Secondly, popular mentality in India(referring to the images posted below) needs to put aside their hatred for Pakistan and look to swallow the bitter pill. Killing, de-religionizing, or a demographic change in Kashmir will not lead to any result you think it will lead to...












Poor Kashmiris suffering from the hatred for Pakistan our Indian friends have...

@hellfire ,@Joe Shearer ,@Gufi ,@HRK ,@Arsalan , and others...




MilSpec said:


> Sure... we will put holes in each of them... every burhan..... pick up arms against the Indian Union and we will guarantee nominal 5.56 mm holes for those who do, Irrespective of the government in the center. That's our unwavering promise.


And then what? you will continue to kill innocent protesters too? logically speaking will that solve problems or create more? don't you think it's better to solve this in a better manner, bloody affair has never solved a problem. No wonder we never learn anything from history. Hatred for Pakistan needs to be put aside...

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## Stephen Cohen

WAJsal said:


> Edit: To all the Indian members i am a Gilgiti(and a proud Pakistani) and would prefer if you take my views from a neutral perspective.
> 
> RIP to the innocent who had to die; when will India learn that such use of force on civilians is only going to create more problems? Only going to urge the youth to take up arms...
> 
> I was disgusted by some of the comments Indian members had made regarding these protesters, labeling them all terrorists and celebrating their death. They are local people, opposing your forces, how blind and delusional are you going to get?
> View attachment 316622
> 
> 
> 
> And secondly, i would want Indina members to ask themselves a few things, but first let take a look at these images...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are these just 50 peoples who have been paid 50 rupees by the ISI in the funeral? (that logic btw)
> 
> Are these just a small faction of people in Jammu Kashmir? (PS: Curfew, mobile service and internet service cut-off)
> 
> What result is killing innocent people protesting for their rights going to yield? instead of more chaos.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Indian intellectuals need to stand up, how long are they going to keep quite on these issues(Seriously @Joe Shearer , and i guess you have remained in-active for the very reason. I hope you don't go through some of the threads, the filth is unbearable). Secondly, popular mentality in India(referring to the images posted below) needs to put aside their hatred for Pakistan and look to swallow the bitter pill. Killing, de-religionizing, or a demographic change in Kashmir will not lead to any result you think it will lead to...
> View attachment 316624
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 316625
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Kashmiris suffering from the hatred for Pakistan our Indian friends have...
> 
> @hellfire ,@Joe Shearer ,@Gufi ,@HRK ,@Arsalan , and others...
> 
> 
> 
> And then what? you will continue to kill innocent protesters too? logically speaking will that solve problems or create more? don't you think it's better to solve this in a better manner, bloody affair has never solved a problem. No wonder we never learn anything from history. Hatred for Pakistan needs to be put aside...



We understand your feelings but you should also Understand OURS

NEVER in the History of this WORLD ; a Much BIGGER POWER has bent before a Smaller power

India will Never bend before Pakistan ; so please Forget about Kashmir

And Kashmiris are only destroying their Life by their Love for Pakistan

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is ONLY on PDF that you see such Non stop discussion on Kashmir

In INDIAN Television ; it is a Three Minute News --* Third news of the day *
after PM's visit to Africa and floods in several states

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## SrNair

American Pakistani said:


> You can come with all your bull crap of 5 district or 5 states. The fact that matters is it happens in IOK sometimes in the valley and sometimes in Jammu. Majority don't want indian occupier terrorists there.
> 
> 
> 
> Your balls does not exists physically. Your poor country cannot afford to do that and risk alienating entire muslim world from where you guys get feeding.



Well , I have seen one post of an Indian member that perfectly explained the problem of 5 districts in valley .If I am not wrong he is an officer that served in valley .I would trust his words more than a Pakistani's words sitting in US.
Kashmir is with us because a lots of them support and obeys Indian Constitution.


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## American Pakistani

SrNair said:


> Well , I have seen one post of an Indian member that perfectly explained the problem of 5 districts in valley .If I am not wrong he is an officer that served in valley .I would trust his words more than a Pakistani's words sitting in US.
> Kashmir is with us because a lots of them support and obeys Indian Constitution.



You can trust whatever you want for all I care.

If "lots" of them does then why 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists?


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## Hellfire

@WAJsal Thanks for the tag on an issue which is, at best, distasteful for me.

As @Joe Shearer has said a few times on the matter of Kashmir, and I share his views here, the objective of the Indian Armed Forces was 'to reduce the level of violence in order to facilitate a political dialogue'.What the problem remains, is the failure of the political class to reach a solution. That is the reason for misery of the Kashmiris today.

If you do get a chance to visit the valley, you will find that majority of people are bereft of good governance and basic amenities as citizens. This is the abject failure of the Local Government. Corruption is rampant (as is bound to be), municipal services merely on paper, employment opportunity non-existent, and a terrible nexus between the Hurriyat and Politicians wherein both sides are making stupendous financial gains at the cost of the common people.

Having said that, I have tried to tell people that you may label them as militants/terrorists but even the Indian Army gives them a decent burial and gives the body back to the local authorities and family in order to give them a suitable last rite as per their religious custom. The official thinking of the Indian Soldier and Indian Army in this scenario is, that they are fighting for their belief and are humans at the end of the day, hence their remains deserve to be treated with respect. 

But I must also point out the fact that it is the PA which is right now the biggest obstacle in reaching a final settlement, it has ratcheted up issues of security of eastern border whenever there have been moves to reach a political decision.

Without delving into Pathankot incident, one can easily make out that overtime there is some concrete effort made towards peace, there is some incident to derail it. What needs to be done, again in my opinion, is to strengthen the civil leadership of Pakistan and withdrawal of Pakistani Army from all issues pertaining to things other than security against external aggression. But is Pakistan willing to send its army back to barracks from the policy making centre? That remains the biggest challenge

The agreement which could not be between Man Mohan Singh and General Musharraf, is and remains the only sensible solution. However, MMS' inability to push through on it and the General's departure from the hell of affairs have driven the nail into the solution.

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## ranjeet

Well, who knew Burhan would be a sectarian.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742709425912336385

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## SrNair

WAJsal said:


> Edit: To all the Indian members i am a Gilgiti(and a proud Pakistani) and would prefer if you take my views from a neutral perspective.
> 
> RIP to the innocent who had to die; when will India learn that such use of force on civilians is only going to create more problems? Only going to urge the youth to take up arms...
> 
> I was disgusted by some of the comments Indian members had made regarding these protesters, labeling them all terrorists and celebrating their death. They are local people, opposing your forces, how blind and delusional are you going to get?
> View attachment 316622
> 
> 
> 
> And secondly, i would want Indina members to ask themselves a few things, but first let take a look at these images...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are these just 50 peoples who have been paid 50 rupees by the ISI in the funeral? (that logic btw)
> 
> Are these just a small faction of people in Jammu Kashmir? (PS: Curfew, mobile service and internet service cut-off)
> 
> What result is killing innocent people protesting for their rights going to yield? instead of more chaos.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Indian intellectuals need to stand up, how long are they going to keep quite on these issues(Seriously @Joe Shearer , and i guess you have remained in-active for the very reason. I hope you don't go through some of the threads, the filth is unbearable). Secondly, popular mentality in India(referring to the images posted below) needs to put aside their hatred for Pakistan and look to swallow the bitter pill. Killing, de-religionizing, or a demographic change in Kashmir will not lead to any result you think it will lead to...
> View attachment 316624
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 316625
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Kashmiris suffering from the hatred for Pakistan our Indian friends have...
> 
> @hellfire ,@Joe Shearer ,@Gufi ,@HRK ,@Arsalan , and others...
> 
> 
> 
> And then what? you will continue to kill innocent protesters too? logically speaking will that solve problems or create more? don't you think it's better to solve this in a better manner, bloody affair has never solved a problem. No wonder we never learn anything from history. Hatred for Pakistan needs to be put aside...




At end we Indians are earning a lot of benefits from our nation .So it is our duty to protect our nation ,her honour ,her integrity ,sovreignity .And that gives us pride and pride about our nation .Not only pride but protection .Most important thing infact is protection from invaders and exploiters from other parts of world .
We are protected by this nation .So if any one be it from Kashmir or Kanyakumari tries to undermine our nation .We will respond .Tomorrow if some other in our own state Kerala do that they will also get same treatment .



American Pakistani said:


> You can trust whatever you want for all I care.
> 
> If "lots" of them does then why 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists?




Again you are just humiliating yourself with little knowledge .
7 lakh really ?

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## Stephen Cohen

hellfire said:


> The agreement which could not be between Man Mohan Singh and General Musharraf, is and remains the only sensible solution. However, MMS' inability to push through on it and the General's departure from the hell of affairs have driven the nail into the solution.



It was Pakistan Army under General Kayani who rejected the Musharraf Formula

Anyway it was Impractical for us too

The Reduction of forces on the LOC was an INVITATION to invaders
You cannot have free movement without security checks 



American Pakistani said:


> If "lots" of them does then why 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists?



Because we DO NOT want Pakistan to invade and occupy Kashmir

Secondly given the size of our Army we can send 5 Lakhs More if required

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## Spectre

WAJsal said:


> Edit: To all the Indian members i am a Gilgiti(and a proud Pakistani) and would prefer if you take my views from a neutral perspective.
> 
> RIP to the innocent who had to die; when will India learn that such use of force on civilians is only going to create more problems? Only going to urge the youth to take up arms...
> 
> I was disgusted by some of the comments Indian members had made regarding these protesters, labeling them all terrorists and celebrating their death. They are local people, opposing your forces, how blind and delusional are you going to get?
> View attachment 316622
> 
> 
> 
> And secondly, i would want Indina members to ask themselves a few things, but first let take a look at these images...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are these just 50 peoples who have been paid 50 rupees by the ISI in the funeral? (that logic btw)
> 
> Are these just a small faction of people in Jammu Kashmir? (PS: Curfew, mobile service and internet service cut-off)
> 
> What result is killing innocent people protesting for their rights going to yield? instead of more chaos.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Indian intellectuals need to stand up, how long are they going to keep quite on these issues(Seriously @Joe Shearer , and i guess you have remained in-active for the very reason. I hope you don't go through some of the threads, the filth is unbearable). Secondly, popular mentality in India(referring to the images posted below) needs to put aside their hatred for Pakistan and look to swallow the bitter pill. Killing, de-religionizing, or a demographic change in Kashmir will not lead to any result you think it will lead to...
> View attachment 316624
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 316625
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Kashmiris suffering from the hatred for Pakistan our Indian friends have...
> 
> @hellfire ,@Joe Shearer ,@Gufi ,@HRK ,@Arsalan , and others...
> 
> 
> 
> And then what? you will continue to kill innocent protesters too? logically speaking will that solve problems or create more? don't you think it's better to solve this in a better manner, bloody affair has never solved a problem. No wonder we never learn anything from history. Hatred for Pakistan needs to be put aside...



Hon'ble @WAJsal

Let me put it in the way you will understand

If there is armed resistance against the state in Balochistan, FATA and other frontier reasons? *Does Pakistani Army welcome them with petals and garlands? *Or do they bring forth the wrath of full Pakistan state encompassing Jets, Helicopters and Tanks?

When Pakistani Army gives notice to civilians to evacuate an area where ops are planned and if someone does not evacuate then are they not all considered terrorists. Collateral damage be damned?

I am sympathetic to the angst of Kashmiris but let there be no mistake - For any man and woman taking up arms against the Union Of India there is only one outcome -* DEATH or INCARCERATION. No matter if they have 1 or thousand or million strong well wishers behind them. 
*
The day Burhan picked up that AK - His fate was sealed. Such people are no worse than suicide bombers for they know their fate - undeniable death.

And who are the policeman - hundreds of them who got injured and few probably killed. *KASHMIRI MUSLIMS
*
So my sincere if unsolicited advice to you is this -

*Sovereignty of India is sacrosanct. It doesn't matter if all of Kashmir -3 Million strong take up arms against India. Their tears, their pleas, their violence, their protests, their untimely deaths will not move us. Not one inch of territory will be given. *

We Indians including @Joe Shearer may have different ideas on how to approach the problem and arrive at different conclusions, some of us may even sympathize with Kashmiris but whatever be our internal divisions we will stand united behind India and none of us approve the violence exhibited by the protesters which compelled the police and crpf to respond.

*These protestors were nor saints, they pelted stones, fired bullets, they snatched weapons, they burnt posts, they kidnapped and probably murdered 3 Policemen and if not stopped they would have cause much more misery and mayhem. So they got what they deserved. When you have problems - you approach the Govt on the platforms provided to you. THIS IS JUST NOT DONE and the deaths are on their own head. *

Regards

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## Hellfire

WAJsal said:


> *RIP to the innocent who had to die*; when will India learn that such use of force on civilians is only going to create more problems? Only going to urge the youth to take up arms...



That is a debatable point - innocent. Had it been a pro-azadi guy who had been killed because he fought elections and won, I would have agreed to your contention there. But he took up arms against a nation state, and by no logic of nation state and its constitution (herein specifically Article 1.1 of Indian Constitution), anyone who takes up arms against a nation has right to life. So not exactly a neutral observation from you here.

If he does not like India, he was not being stopped from leaving the country and moving out. Hell, even I don't like tonnes of things of this country, and am now planning to move out.




WAJsal said:


> I was disgusted by some of the comments Indian members had made regarding these protesters, labeling them all terrorists and celebrating their death. They are local people, opposing your forces, how blind and delusional are you going to get?



Under active control of an external state. However, as I have read some of Pakistani members' comments which were downright distasteful, I can understand their rants.

But, as I said earlier, he fought for his belief and he died for it. So, good for him. As an Indian, good for us too.

But have you wondered why he was not eliminated till date?



WAJsal said:


> And secondly, i would want Indina members to ask themselves a few things, but first let take a look at these images...



Are you aware that there were no forces in Tral? Deployment was not done to stop people from going as it was expected, a huge turnout. Hence, forces were not deployed.

Do you think, that had the aim been to ensure no one turns up, the body would have been handed over to kins? What do you think is the reason behind body being handed over to the kin for a burial which would attract a mass of people and create potential unrest in the valley? Maybe you would like to think on this line ....




WAJsal said:


> Killing, *de-religionizing, or a demographic change* in Kashmir will not lead to any result you think it will lead to...



You are mistaken there.

There has been no instance wherein de-religionizing has been done. In fact, in Bandipore, a madrassa teaches the Indian forces are occupying forces and we have never moved against it .... so your contention is wrong here.

Secondly, the demography was changed by the anti-Pandit campaign by Kashmiri muslims in 1988-93 period. The Indian state had all the legitimacy to move in to stop the religious considerations based actions of making Kashmir a purely Muslim area. However, the central government till date has not taken a step to address this travesty of justice to the millions of pandits who remain displaced till date.

Now a plan to relocate them to their ancestral homeland is being done and the issue is being twisted into a demographic change?

Had that been the plan, Indians would have been allowed to settle in Kashmir and marry there .. that would have changed the demography. Something that, sir, has happened across LC in areas adjoining LC as you are aware.




WAJsal said:


> And then what? you will continue to kill innocent protesters too? logically speaking will that solve problems or create more? don't you think it's better to solve this in a better manner, bloody affair has never solved a problem. No wonder we never learn anything from history. Hatred for Pakistan needs to be put aside...



Sir, I share your despair here. Like many Pakistani members (like windjammer et al) are gleefully pointing out that this is a situation reminiscent of 1991, it pains me equally to point out that yes indeed it is. The only difference this time is - Pakistan won't be backing them at the level they did in 1991, the response of Indian State will be more forceful, and again a whole generation of Kashmiris will be 'culled'!

Additionally, this time no one, not even the international community will bat an eyelid as we go about suppressing it forcefully.

Sad indeed.

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## WAJsal

Stephen Cohen said:


> NEVER in this History of the WORLD ; a Much BIGGER POWER has bent before a Smaller power
> 
> India will Never bend before Pakistan ; so please Forget about Kashmir


See that is the problem. As i said before, Kashmiris are suffering from the hatred for Pakistan that Indians have.

You don't have to bend before Pakistan, what about Kashmiris? Doesn't matter really, i think you might as well be in favor of killing all the Kashmiris to solve the problem if needed. See we don't have a problem being the occupier but have a problem being occupied. We have forgotten the British Raj too fast. 



SrNair said:


> At end we Indians are earning a lot of benefits from our nation .So it is our duty to protect our nation ,her honour ,her integrity ,sovreignity .And that gives us pride and pride about our nation .Not only pride but protection .Most important thing infact is protection from invaders and exploiters from other parts of world .
> We are protected by this nation .So if any one be it from Kashmir or Kanyakumari tries to undermine our nation .We will respond .Tomorrow if some other in our own state Kerala do that they will also get same treatment .





Spectre said:


> Hon'ble @WAJsal
> 
> Let me put it in the way you will understand
> 
> If there is armed resistance against the state in Balochistan, FATA and other frontier reasons? Does Pakistani Army welcome them with petals and garlands? Or do they bring forth the wrath of full Pakistan state encompassing Jets, Helicopters and Tanks?
> 
> When Pakistani Army gives notice to civilians to evacuate an area where ops are planned and if someone does not evacuate then are they not all considered terrorists. Collateral damage be damned?
> 
> I am sympathetic to the angst of Kashmiris but let there be no mistake - For any man and woman taking up arms against the Union Of India has only one outcome -* DEATH or INCARCERATION. No matter if they have 1 or thousand or million strong well wishers behind them.
> *
> The day Burhan picked up that AK - His fate was sealed. Such people are no worse than suicide bombers for they know their fate - undeniable death.
> 
> And who are the policeman - hundreds of them who got injured and few probably killed. *KASHMIRI MUSLIMS
> *
> So my sincere if unsolicited advice to you is this -
> 
> *Sovereignty of India is sacrosanct. It doesn't matter if all of Kashmir -3 Million strong take up arms against India. Their tears, their pleas, their violence, their protests, their untimely deaths will not move us. Not one inch of territory will be given. *


Honorable Srnair and Spectre, Kashmir cannot be compared to Balochistan or FATA or even say any freedom movement in India, like the Khalistan one. Kashmir is a disputed territory, you lay claim on our side we lay claim on yours. Comparing it would be a disgrace to historic facts and logic. 



Stephen Cohen said:


> Because we DO NOT want Pakistan to invade and occupy Kashmir
> 
> Secondly given the size of our Army we can send 5 Lakhs More if required


See @Joe Shearer, and you were questioning my sources claims. It's that obvious. And Joe please don't ignore these threads. How long are people like you going to keep quite on this issue and see innocent blood being spilled? Come on Joe, raise your opinion.


Spectre said:


> *These protestors were nor saints, they pelted bullets, they snatched weapons, they burnt posts, they kidnapped and probably murdered 3 Policemen and if not stopped they would have cause much more misery and mayhem. So they got what they deserved. When you have problems - you approach the Govt on the platforms provided to you. THIS IS JUST NOT DONE and the deaths are on their own head. *


Number of protesters? does it mean everyone in Kashmir or even protesting is a terrorist?

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## Stephen Cohen

WAJsal said:


> de-religionizing, or a demographic change in Kashmir will not lead to any result you think it will lead to...



@Spectre @hellfire @Joe Shearer @ranjeet @SpArK @SrNair @Srinivas @shree835 

This is an absolutely false allegation

There is NO demographic change or dereligionizing

*In the last TEN years Kashmiri Muslim population has INCREASED by 17 LAKHS*

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/ja...du-population-by-5-61-lakh-in-j-k/124893.html

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## Spectre

WAJsal said:


> See that is the problem. As i said before, Kashmiris are suffering from the hatred for Pakistan that Indians have.
> 
> You don't have to bend before Pakistan, what about Kashmiris? Doesn't matter really, i think you might as well be in favor of killing all the Kashmiris to solve the problem if needed. See we don't have a problem being the occupier but have a problem being occupied. We have forgotten the British Raj too fast.
> 
> 
> 
> Honorable Srnair and Spectre, Kashmir cannot be compared to Balochistan or FATA or even say any freedom movement in India, like the Khalistan one. Kashmir is a disputed territory, you lay claim on our side we lay claim on yours. Comparing it would be a disgrace to historic facts and logic.
> 
> 
> See @Joe Shearer, and you were questioning my sources claims. It's that obvious. And Joe please don't ignore these threads. How long are people like you going to keep quite on this issue and see innocent blood being spilled? Come on Joe, raise your opinion.
> 
> Number of protesters? does it mean everyone in Kashmir or even protesting is a terrorist?



Simple Question @WAJsal

If a protester comes with intention of killing you then what do you do? Do you lay down to be killed, do you abandon your post or do you fight back?

I think you often forget - these were not peaceful protesters. They smelled blood and moved in for the kill.



WAJsal said:


> honorable Srnair and Spectre, Kashmir cannot be compared to Balochistan or FATA or even say any freedom movement in India, like the Khalistan one. Kashmir is a disputed territory, you lay claim on our side we lay claim on yours. Comparing it would be a disgrace to historic facts and logic.



This is your contention - Contention of India is that *Kashmir is an integral part of India. *No different then what you consider Balochistan, FATA and KPK to be and no different from Khalistan from us. Our state with respond with same measure of force and restraint in all such regions. 

Our actions are not informed by Pakistani and other external opinions, Just like your actions are not informed by Afghan or TTP Opinions.

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## danger007

WAJsal said:


> Edit: To all the Indian members i am a Gilgiti(and a proud Pakistani) and would prefer if you take my views from a neutral perspective.
> 
> RIP to the innocent who had to die; when will India learn that such use of force on civilians is only going to create more problems? Only going to urge the youth to take up arms...
> 
> I was disgusted by some of the comments Indian members had made regarding these protesters, labeling them all terrorists and celebrating their death. They are local people, opposing your forces, how blind and delusional are you going to get?
> View attachment 316622
> 
> 
> 
> And secondly, i would want Indina members to ask themselves a few things, but first let take a look at these images...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are these just 50 peoples who have been paid 50 rupees by the ISI in the funeral? (that logic btw)
> 
> Are these just a small faction of people in Jammu Kashmir? (PS: Curfew, mobile service and internet service cut-off)
> 
> What result is killing innocent people protesting for their rights going to yield? instead of more chaos.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Indian intellectuals need to stand up, how long are they going to keep quite on these issues(Seriously @Joe Shearer , and i guess you have remained in-active for the very reason. I hope you don't go through some of the threads, the filth is unbearable). Secondly, popular mentality in India(referring to the images posted below) needs to put aside their hatred for Pakistan and look to swallow the bitter pill. Killing, de-religionizing, or a demographic change in Kashmir will not lead to any result you think it will lead to...
> View attachment 316624
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 316625
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Kashmiris suffering from the hatred for Pakistan our Indian friends have...
> 
> @hellfire ,@Joe Shearer ,@Gufi ,@HRK ,@Arsalan , and others...
> 
> 
> 
> And then what? you will continue to kill innocent protesters too? logically speaking will that solve problems or create more? don't you think it's better to solve this in a better manner, bloody affair has never solved a problem. No wonder we never learn anything from history. Hatred for Pakistan needs to be put aside...





Armed resistance/ militancy or armed camps you name it, I don't support it- that includes every corner of India not just Kashmir... someone's freedom fighter is others terrorists.. Kashmir issue is not about the land but water .. it known facts... when external source/ hand involved then the result will be no good...


----------



## WAJsal

Spectre said:


> Simple Question @WAJsal
> 
> If a protester comes with intention of killing you then what do you do? Do you lay down to be killed, do you abandon your post or do you fight back?
> 
> I think you often forget - these were not peaceful protesters. They smelled blood and moved in for the kill.


How many people were protesting? Does it not mean that the majority is against the occupation and want to join Pakistan. It's like contradicting yourself, sometimes you folks say 50 people are protesting(while the images suggest otherwise), sometimes you say Kashmiris don't want to join Pakistan...



hellfire said:


> Pakistan won't be backing them at the level they did in 1991, the response of Indian State will be more forceful, and again a whole generation of Kashmiris will be 'culled'!
> 
> Additionally, this time no one, not even the international community will bat an eyelid as we go about suppressing it forcefully.


The bigger question is are folks like you who are on ground and understand these situation going to stay silent on this issue? And you are going to let another generation of Kashmiris going down the drain? I am sick of educated people staying silent on this issue, especially in India! 
BTW, good analysis. Very good one. 
The rest clarified in profile post. 

And not interested in having discussions with anyone, too gutted and disgusted.

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## Spectre

WAJsal said:


> How many people were protesting? Does it not mean that the majority is against the occupation and want to join Pakistan. It's like contradicting yourself, sometimes you folks say 50 people are protesting(while the images suggest otherwise), sometimes you say Kashmiris don't want to join Pakistan...



Flawed Logic @WAJsal - India has a population of 1.2 Billion. Even if every single Kashmiri child, woman and man protest they do not constitute majority in State of India of which it is a part. You cant count majority piecemeal - otherwise *tomorrow a Mohalla in Lajpat Nagar in Delhi might decide to secede from India and on basis of few nutters we may have to allow them. No nation works this way. *

Still State of India grants them the right of peaceful protests, *protests were not peaceful. 
*
As for numbers, I never claimed any and whatever they might be - it is irrelevant.
*
*

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## Stephen Cohen

WAJsal said:


> The bigger question is are folks like you who are on ground and understand these situation going to stay silent on this issue? And you are going to let another generation of Kashmiris going down the drain? I am sick of educated people staying silent on this issue, especially in India!
> BTW, good analysis. Very good one.
> The rest clarified in profile post.
> 
> And not interested in having discussions with anyone, too gutted and disgusted.



We have given the Kashmiris lots of avenues and funds for economic development

They have ALL the rights which the Other 16 CRORE Indian Muslims have

IF Kashmiris think that with Pakistan's support they can Break away they are BADLY
mistaken ; they will only destroy their lives

Kashmiris are unhappy because of this FAILED dream of uniting with Pakistan 

They have to give up this dream



Spectre said:


> India has a population of 1.2 Billion.



It has crossed 1.3 Billion

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## Hellfire

WAJsal said:


> The bigger question is are folks like you who are on ground and understand these situation going to stay silent on this issue? And you are going to let another generation of Kashmiris going down the drain? I am sick of educated people staying silent on this issue, especially in India!
> BTW, good analysis. Very good one.
> The rest clarified in profile post.
> 
> *And not interested in having discussions with anyone, too gutted and disgusted*.



Sir. The issue is that in India, unlike in Pakistan, the armed forces carry out the political objectives and stop at that point. In Pakistan, it does not stop there. The policy is being decided by people who are merely supposed to attain political objectives. In such a scenario, the pre-eminence enjoyed by the men in uniform is addictive. And when such men take it upon themselves to formulate the policy of a nation, it is difficult to wean one's self off this feeling of self-import and allow a pragmatic policy to be formulated.

Thankfully we are unburdened by that.

On the political front, Modi can settle this matter, but is PA ready to take a backseat here?

He has all the credentials, vilified as a muslim hater, hindutva's poster boy and authoritarian enough to get his way. Any compromise on Kashmir would be accepted by Indians .... on his credentials alone!!

As for bold part ... I agree. 

Thanks.

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## American Pakistani

SrNair said:


> At end we Indians are earning a lot of benefits from our nation .So it is our duty to protect our nation ,her honour ,her integrity ,sovreignity .And that gives us pride and pride about our nation .Not only pride but protection .Most important thing infact is protection from invaders and exploiters from other parts of world .
> We are protected by this nation .So if any one be it from Kashmir or Kanyakumari tries to undermine our nation .We will respond .Tomorrow if some other in our own state Kerala do that they will also get same treatment .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again you are just humiliating yourself with little knowledge .
> 7 lakh really ?



Yes 7 lakh.

Your surprise actually show your little knowledge.



Stephen Cohen said:


> It was Pakistan Army under General Kayani who rejected the Musharraf Formula
> 
> Anyway it was Impractical for us too
> 
> The Reduction of forces on the LOC was an INVITATION to invaders
> You cannot have free movement without security checks
> 
> 
> 
> Because we DO NOT want Pakistan to invade and occupy Kashmir
> 
> Secondly given the size of our Army we can send 5 Lakhs More if required



If that is the case pakistan can invade khalistan, rajasthan, gujarat...it is because you guys know that kashmiris will merge that land with pakistan, hence the insecurity.

Yes you can send 5 lakh more occupier terrorists if you wanna scale up the massacre of innocent kashmiris.


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## Joe Shearer

American Pakistani said:


> Yes 7 lakh.
> 
> Your surprise actually show your little knowledge.



Three Corps - not seven lakhs, nowhere near, idiot you uninformed person of no discriminating ability. Not even a third of that, in fact. And look up where they are posted, and you will know why. One faces east, and faces the PRC; two of them are on the western border, and they are on the borders. Taking 15,000 to a division and 8,000 support personnel, that's 23,000 * 9 = 207,000

You have been an aggressive buffoon long enough. Your exaggeration and high-pitched shrieking is merely boring now. It impresses nobody; it never did.



> If that is the case pakistan can invade khalistan, rajasthan, gujarat...it is because you guys know that kashmiris will merge that land with pakistan, hence the insecurity.
> 
> Yes you can send 5 lakh more occupier terrorists if you wanna scale up the massacre of innocent kashmiris.



We do not need to send a single more soldier or policeman, beyond the additional number called up to meet this situation. We have enough and to spare; since you are a chairborne warrior shooting your mouth off from the US, there is no point in asking you to put your money where your mouth is. There is always the jerk who fights to the last Kashmiri.

@WAJsal

I am unable to 'reply' to posts for some reason not known to me. It always goes to a form called 'Reply to this thread', and I can do nothing further. This has been going on off and on for the last three days.

Got through this time and am just writing to tell you that I will be answering these posts and responding to this thread as soon as I can, perhaps even immediately after this one, if I am lucky.

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## American Pakistani

Joe Shearer said:


> Three Corps - not seven lakhs, nowhere near, idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @WAJsal
> 
> I am unable to 'reply' to posts for some reason not known to me. Got through this time and am just writing to tell you that I will be answering these posts and responding to this thread as soon as I can, perhaps even immediately after this one.



@Horus @WAJsal @waz 

Is idiot accepted term to use at pdf?

Can I call him duffer and idiot too?

@Mr dee you em bee shearer there are 7 lakh occupier terrorists. I dunno what you smoking at. Probably curry powder?

P.S you think you can post insults and stupid comments, get ready to get reply in the same attitude. Stay in your aukaat and get normal replies.


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## Joe Shearer

American Pakistani said:


> @Horus @WAJsal @waz
> 
> Is idiot accepted term to use at pdf?
> 
> Can I call him duffer and idiot too?
> 
> @Mr dee you em bee shearer there are 7 lakh occupier terrorists. I dunno what you smoking at. Probably curry powder?
> 
> P.S you think you can post insults and stupid comments, get ready to get reply in the same attitude. Stay in your aukaat and get normal replies.



Do you have any knowledge of military formations, or are you content to use YouTube gossip?

And please call me a duffer or an idiot *if I display the kind of ignorance you have just displayed*.

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## American Pakistani

Joe Shearer said:


> Do you have any knowledge of military formations, or are you content to use YouTube gossip?
> 
> And please call me a duffer or an idiot *if I display the kind of ignorance you have just displayed*.



I believe Gen Musharraf more than some so called professional from India on an online forum.

According to his interview all armored divisions and majority of your occupier terrorists are deployed in IOK.


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## dadeechi

American Pakistani said:


> @Horus @WAJsal @waz
> 
> Is idiot accepted term to use at pdf?
> 
> Can I call him duffer and idiot too?
> 
> @Mr dee you em bee shearer there are 7 lakh occupier terrorists. I dunno what you smoking at. Probably curry powder?
> 
> P.S you think you can post insults and stupid comments, get ready to get reply in the same attitude. Stay in your aukaat and get normal replies.



At the end of the day propaganda can take you so far. At some point in time you would have backup your propaganda with facts. Else propaganda looses credibility and it falls flat.

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## American Pakistani

http://projectcensored.org/kashmir-the-untold-story-of-indian-occupation/


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

jaunty said:


> True. There were many like him before and *there will be many like him in the future*. Kashmir will still be with India.



Given the current trend in Kashmir insurgency, not many in the future

Kashmir terrorist fatalities in 2001 : 2850

Kashmir terrorist fatalities in 2015 : 113

Kashmir terrorist fatalities in 2016 July 3rd : 77

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/jandk/data_sheets/annual_casualties.htm

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## American Pakistani

dadeechi said:


> At the end of the day propaganda can take you so far. At some point in time you would have backup your propaganda with facts. Else propaganda looses credibility and it falls flat.



I posted the link saying 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists in IOK.


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## dadeechi

American Pakistani said:


> I posted the link saying 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists in IOK.



Responsibility for the security of Kashmir is with J&K police.

J&K police is for most part madeup of local Kashmiri Muslims

These are the facts.

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## American Pakistani

dadeechi said:


> Responsibility for the security of Kashmir is with J&K police.
> 
> J&K police is for most part madeup of local Kashmiri Muslims
> 
> These are the facts.



That's a complete lie.


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## Joe Shearer

American Pakistani said:


> I believe Gen Musharraf more than some so called professional from India on an online forum.
> 
> According to his interview all armored divisions and majority of your occupier terrorists are deployed in IOK.




Let me correct myself; I am a duffer and an idiot for not having given you the exact order of battle.

There are three Armoured Divisions in the Indian Army. 

1 Armoured Divi is at Ambala, and belongs to II Corps;
31 Armoured Div is at Jhansi, and belongs to XXI Corps (the old IPKF);
33 Armoured Div is at Hissar, with I Corps.
Only a military genius would deploy Armoured Divisions in the hills and mountains of Kashmir. The last time it happened was when Rajinder Singh 'Sparrow' took Stuart tanks over the Zoji La to blow away the two artillery pieces commanding the road that the Chitral Guides had placed there.

There are three Corps posted to Jammu and Kashmir in the Northern Command (there is one more posted to geographical J&K but it belongs to Western Command). These are NOT full-strength Corps and have only 7 (seven) Divisions among them. This is the listing:

3rd Infantry Div is at Leh with XIV Corps
8th Mountain Div is at Dras, also with XIV Corps, and that is all that XIV Corps has;
19th Infantry Div is at Baramula, with XV Corps;
28th Mountain Div is at Gurez, with XV Corps, and this is the strength of XV Corps;
10th Infantry Div is at Akhnoor (not even within the mountains), with XVI Corps;
25th Infantry Div is at Rajauri (look at the map and you will see the significance), again with XVI Corps;
39th Infantry Div is at Yol, for heavens' sake, and is the third division with XVI Corps, which is the only full-strength Corps in Northern Command.
Do you understand that XIV Corps faces the PLA and the possibility of a repeat of Kargil, and is outside the Valley completely?

Do you realise that Akhnoor, Rajauri and Yol are also not even in the Valley?

And as for the majority of our troops being in Kashmir, the Indian Army has 34 (or 36, if we include Artillery Divisions as Divisions) Divisions; 7 (*SEVEN*) are in J&K (except the one in Western Command, counting which would make it 8 out of 36).

Does that sound like remotely a majority to you? 7/36 is *19.44%*, just in case your mathematical knowledge is on par with your military knowledge.

I REFUSE to believe that General Musharraf made that claim mentioned by you. Whatever his faults, he was a good general.

@WAJsal , my personal apologies for being diverted; all future posts on this thread will be addressed to you and your posts.

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## Jf Thunder

SrNair said:


> Then East Pakistan gone for good .But Kashmir is still in there ,with us, means.?


you were the first country in the world to introduce state sponsored terrorism


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## American Pakistani

Joe Shearer said:


> Let me correct myself; I am a duffer and an idiot for not having given you the exact order of battle.
> 
> There are three Armoured Divisions in the Indian Army.
> 
> 1 Armoured Divi is at Ambala, and belongs to II Corps;
> 31 Armoured Div is at Jhansi, and belongs to XXI Corps (the old IPKF);
> 33 Armoured Div is at Hissar, with I Corps.
> Only a military genius would deploy Armoured Divisions in the hills and mountains of Kashmir. The last time it happened was when Rajinder Singh 'Sparrow' took Stuart tanks over the Zoji La to blow away the two artillery pieces commanding the road that the Chitral Guides had placed there.
> 
> There are three Corps posted to Jammu and Kashmir in the Northern Command (there is one more posted to geographical J&K but it belongs to Western Command). These are NOT full-strength Corps and have only 7 (seven) Divisions among them. This is the listing:
> 
> 3rd Infantry Div is at Leh with XIV Corps
> 8th Mountain Div is at Dras, also with XIV Corps, and that is all that XIV Corps has;
> 19th Infantry Div is at Baramula, with XV Corps;
> 28th Mountain Div is at Gurez, with XV Corps, and this is the strength of XV Corps;
> 10th Infantry Div is at Akhnoor (not even within the mountains), with XVI Corps;
> 25th Infantry Div is at Rajauri (look at the map and you will see the significance), again with XVI Corps;
> 39th Infantry Div is at Yol, for heavens' sake, and is the third division with XVI Corps, which is the only full-strength Corps in Northern Command.
> Do you understand that XIV Corps faces the PLA and the possibility of a repeat of Kargil, and is outside the Valley completely?
> 
> Do you realise that Akhnoor, Rajauri and Yol are also not even in the Valley?
> 
> And as for the majority of our troops being in Kashmir, the Indian Army has 34 (or 36, if we include Artillery Divisions as Divisions) Divisions; 7 (*SEVEN*) are in J&K (except the one in Western Command, counting which would make it 8 out of 36).
> 
> Does that sound like remotely a majority to you? 7/36 is *19.44%*, just in case your mathematical knowledge is on par with your military knowledge.
> 
> I REFUSE to believe that General Musharraf made that claim mentioned by you. Whatever his faults, he was a good general.
> 
> @WAJsal , my personal apologies for being diverted; all future posts on this thread will be addressed to you and your posts.



Like I said I believe Gen Musharraf over a so called professional from india.


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## Joe Shearer

American Pakistani said:


> I posted the link saying 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists in IOK.



Yeah, right, so convincing.

You have been handed the order of battle, with the precise location of each division, its attachment to a Corps, and the locations and tasks of the Corps. Exactly two divisions are in the Valley. 

Ask the experts on the subject - there are many serving Pakistan Army professionals on board - how many tanks they have heard of or seen in the Valley.

I dislike people who don't do their homework, who blindly cut and paste propaganda information, and who rely on YouTube and fanboy grapevines for their information. It isn't personal.



American Pakistani said:


> Like I said I believe Gen Musharraf over a so called professional from india.



Like I said, let everybody see that you depend on TV interviews for your information on military matters. Good enough for me. 

I can tell you also the placing and location of major Pakistani military formations, and I don't need General J. J. Singh to tell me these details, not in a TV interview made to sell his case, not in a signed article, not in a book, nothing. From researched and validated sources.


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## American Pakistani

Joe Shearer said:


> Yeah, right, so convincing.
> 
> You have been handed the order of battle, with the precise location of each division, its attachment to a Corps, and the locations and tasks of the Corps. Exactly two divisions are in the Valley.
> 
> Ask the experts on the subject - there are many serving Pakistan Army professionals on board - how many tanks they have heard of or seen in the Valley.
> 
> I dislike people who don't do their homework, who blindly cut and paste propaganda information, and who rely on YouTube and fanboy grapevines for their information. It isn't personal.



You have comprehension issues?

What are you? A so called professional sitting on internet. With zero credibility...

I trust the facts coming from Gen Musharraf more than some indian trying hard to be a wannabe Professional.

Plus that link.


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## Joe Shearer

American Pakistani said:


> I posted the link saying 7 lakh indian occupier terrorists in IOK.



Yeah, right, so convincing.

You have been handed the order of battle, with the precise location of each division, its attachment to a Corps, and the locations and tasks of the Corps. Exactly two divisions are in the Valley. 

Ask the experts on the subject - there are many serving Pakistan Army professionals on board - how many tanks they have heard of or seen in the Valley.

I dislike people who don't do their homework, who blindly cut and paste propaganda information, and who rely on YouTube and fanboy grapevines for their information. It isn't personal.

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## dadeechi

American Pakistani said:


> Like I said I believe Gen Musharraf over a so called professional from india.



Gen Musharraf also claimed that Pakistan has no hand in Kargil war. Yeah right! we take it at face value.


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## Joe Shearer

Stephen Cohen said:


> They have brought upon this suffering on themselves
> 
> Unless they give up this desire of joining Pakistan ; They will neither get peace nor happiness
> 
> Kashmir's Muslim population is just 9 Million
> 
> India's population is 1300 Million


The Vale of Kashmir has 6.9 million; the rest are constituted of the inhabitants of Jammu and Dras and Kargil, and Leh.

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## SrNair

American Pakistani said:


> Yes 7 lakh.
> 
> Your surprise actually show your little knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> If that is the case pakistan can invade khalistan, rajasthan, gujarat...it is because you guys know that kashmiris will merge that land with pakistan, hence the insecurity.
> 
> Yes you can send 5 lakh more occupier terrorists if you wanna scale up the massacre of innocent kashmiris.



Repeating BS again .



WAJsal said:


> See that is the problem. As i said before, Kashmiris are suffering from the hatred for Pakistan that Indians have.
> 
> You don't have to bend before Pakistan, what about Kashmiris? Doesn't matter really, i think you might as well be in favor of killing all the Kashmiris to solve the problem if needed. See we don't have a problem being the occupier but have a problem being occupied. We have forgotten the British Raj too fast.
> 
> 
> 
> Honorable Srnair and Spectre, Kashmir cannot be compared to Balochistan or FATA or even say any freedom movement in India, like the Khalistan one. Kashmir is a disputed territory, you lay claim on our side we lay claim on yours. Comparing it would be a disgrace to historic facts and logic.
> 
> 
> See @Joe Shearer, and you were questioning my sources claims. It's that obvious. And Joe please don't ignore these threads. How long are people like you going to keep quite on this issue and see innocent blood being spilled? Come on Joe, raise your opinion.
> 
> Number of protesters? does it mean everyone in Kashmir or even protesting is a terrorist?



What will you say ,tomorrow if ,Afghanistan says same about Durand Line .?
Can you allow that ?
Our nation's frame is embedded in that foundation of our geography and we wont allow any type of anti national activity.

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## MilSpec

WAJsal said:


> And then what? you will continue to kill innocent protesters too? logically speaking will that solve problems or create more? don't you think it's better to solve this in a better manner, bloody affair has never solved a problem. No wonder we never learn anything from history. Hatred for Pakistan needs to be put aside...



No, my post was very specific. You pick up arms against the Union of India, you die. It's as simple as that. You denounce armed rebellion and come to a political struggle and we will provide the space. Terrorists like Yasin Malik is treated as a political figure, because he knows the reality of what I said. 

Now as far as protesters, In a democracy you have the right to protest, but as soon as your protest turns violent, you are calling for retaliatory action. Given the pictures you have posted, and the number of casualties, you can judge the restraint the forces have exercised.

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## SrNair

Jf Thunder said:


> you were the first country in the world to introduce state sponsored terrorism



But world says otherwise .Sorry


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## Joe Shearer

WAJsal said:


> Edit: To all the Indian members i am a Gilgiti(and a proud Pakistani) and would prefer if you take my views from a neutral perspective.
> 
> RIP to the innocents who had to die; when will India learn that such use of force on civilians is only going to create more problems? Only going to urge the youth to take up arms...



My sincere condolences on the loss of lives. It is not important that we sit to define who was innocent, and of what; it is a matter of sadness that anyone had to die.



> I was disgusted by some of the comments Indian members had made regarding these protesters, labeling them all terrorists and celebrating their death. They are local people, opposing your forces, how blind and delusional are you going to get?



I agree with you, in that celebrating a death is an awful thing to do, whatever the circumstances and whatever the actions of the dead. Since there are already posts from me in this regard, I shall not repeat myself. However, one of the dead was not an innocent local; as for the others who died, my limited knowledge up to now is that they died attacking the armed forces. This is not just moral or intellectual opposition, it is physical opposition to a soldier, or a policeman doing his duty. They can, and they will kill in self-defence, or if they believe that a military objective that is known to the people opposing them is in threat.

The basic fact remains, celebrating their death is a very insensitive and unnecessary stand, and adds to the hurt feelings of the bereaved.



> View attachment 316622
> 
> 
> 
> And secondly, i would want Indina members to ask themselves a few things, but first let take a look at these images...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are these just 50 peoples who have been paid 50 rupees by the ISI in the funeral? (that logic btw)
> 
> Are these just a small faction of people in Jammu Kashmir? (PS: Curfew, mobile service and internet service cut-off)
> 
> What result is killing innocent people protesting for their rights going to yield? instead of more chaos.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Indian intellectuals need to stand up, how long are they going to keep quite on these issues(Seriously @Joe Shearer , and i guess you have remained in-active for the very reason.



A personal clarification, @WAJsal - all of you know my views on this issue, but let me reiterate them:

Kashmir had legally acceded to India, but by then, two important components (three, counting Chitra, Hunza and Nagar and the Pamir emirates as one entity) had broken away, or were determined to do so and burst into revolt within days of the accession.
India intervened in the face of terrible atrocities by an invading force going through Mirpur, which had already removed all traces of the state administration.
The intervention was actively supported by local Kashmiris. EVERY Pakistani refusing to accept that this was the atmosphere THEN needs to find out the history behind Shervani Chowk in Baramula.
India referred the matter to the UN to remove aggression and the aggressor. India also expressed its desire to hold a plebiscite.
The UN agreed, and stated certain conditions for the self-determination to take place. These conditions were never met by one party; however, India met each and every condition.
Subsequently, Kashmir was given a special position in the Indian Constitution, and India was given a special position in the Kashmir constitution.
Until 1984-90, there was relative peace in J&K again. Even during the massive infiltration of special services troopers into Kashmir in 1965, Indian forces were aided by local Kashmiris, and hunted down 8 out of 9 detachments .
With this in mind, I wish to share my humble point of view.



> I hope you don't go through some of the threads, the filth is unbearable). Secondly, popular mentality in India(referring to the images posted below) needs to put aside their hatred for Pakistan and look to swallow the bitter pill. Killing, de-religionizing, or a demographic change in Kashmir will not lead to any result you think it will lead to...
> View attachment 316624
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 316625
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Kashmiris suffering from the hatred for Pakistan our Indian friends have...
> 
> @hellfire ,@Joe Shearer ,@Gufi ,@HRK ,@Arsalan , and others...
> 
> 
> 
> And then what? you will continue to kill innocent protesters too? logically speaking will that solve problems or create more? don't you think it's better to solve this in a better manner, bloody affair has never solved a problem. No wonder we never learn anything from history. Hatred for Pakistan needs to be put aside...

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## dray

WAJsal said:


> See that is the problem. As i said before, *Kashmiris are suffering* from the hatred for Pakistan that Indians have.



Let me correct you here, only some Kashmiris of "Sunni Muslim" sect from the Kashmir Valley area are suffering for their own extreme religious bigotry and violence resulting out of it. Rest of the Kashmiris, including Kashmiris of all other religions and even Kashmiris of other sects of Islam want their armed forces, that is Indian forces' presence there. In fact they are still surviving in their ancestral land because of the presence of armed forces.

I just saw some Pakistanis including you trying to evoke 'conscience' of Indian people for those "Sunni Muslim Kashmiris" of the valley, but conscience for what? To give some sections of Kashmiris the right to enforce brute majoritarianism, persecute Kashmiris of other religions, and create their own mini Khilafat there? Sorry, Indian constitution doesn't offer that kind of 'freedom'.

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## Jf Thunder

SrNair said:


> But world says otherwise .Sorry


just like the World said that Iraq had WMDs


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## Joe Shearer

Jf Thunder said:


> just like the World said that Iraq had WMDs



Just to remind you, it was the Bush-Blair clique that said Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction, and they have been exposed by the Chilcott Report.


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## Jf Thunder

Joe Shearer said:


> Just to remind you, it was the Bush-Blair clique that said Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction, and they have been exposed by the Chilcott Report.


so, America represents the "Free World"


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## Joe Shearer

Jf Thunder said:


> so, America represents the "Free World"



If you say so. What will you do for your next trick, convert your wand into a bouquet of flowers?


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## Arsalan

Stephen Cohen said:


> We understand your feelings but you should also Understand OURS
> 
> NEVER in the History of this WORLD ; a Much BIGGER POWER has bent before a Smaller power
> 
> India will Never bend before Pakistan ; so please Forget about Kashmir
> 
> And Kashmiris are only destroying their Life by their Love for Pakistan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> It is ONLY on PDF that you see such Non stop discussion on Kashmir
> 
> In INDIAN Television ; it is a Three Minute News --* Third news of the day *
> after PM's visit to Africa and floods in several states


SO what you are saying is that it is about the ego and might is right mentality and have nothing to do with logical reasoning and ground realities? I think this is EXACTLY what we have been saying as well.


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## Hellfire

American Pakistani said:


> According to his interview all armored divisions and majority of your occupier terrorists are deployed in IOK.




Yup.

And the armoured divisions do this there when they go upslope at 40 degrees and more and at altitudes off 11000+ feet they fly and fire into Pakistan thereby sending shells over 50+ kms

You got us mate

Angry Birds are inspired by Indian Armored Divisions operating in Kashmir

@Joe Shearer The video link is in support of his statement in case you are not aware of how our tanks are deployed in Kashmir !!!








American Pakistani said:


> Is idiot accepted term to use at pdf?



Seeing that one of the most polite members around is calling you that, you can assume the answer would be a yes.

And keeping a track of your posts so far, you meet the criteria of Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale as amended from time to time and score in the range as defined and qualify as a case of IDD as per APA (as per DSM-5) and hence probably @Joe Shearer has indicated as such so that a remedial course may be undertaken - for your benefit

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## WAJsal

Rain Man said:


> Let me correct you here, only some Kashmiris of "Sunni Muslim" sect from the Kashmir Valley area are suffering for their own extreme religious bigotry and violence resulting out of it. Rest of the Kashmiris, including Kashmiris of all other religions and even Kashmiris of other sects of Islam want their armed forces, that is Indian forces' presence there. In fact they are still surviving in their ancestral land because of the presence of armed forces.
> 
> I just saw some Pakistanis including you trying to evoke 'conscience' of Indian people for those "Sunni Muslim Kashmiris" of the valley, but conscience for what? To give some sections of Kashmiris the right to enforce brute majoritarianism, persecute Kashmiris of other religions, and create their own mini Khilafat there? Sorry, Indian constitution doesn't offer that kind of 'freedom'.


I was done with this thread and then i saw this golden comment. Love the upgrade, gone from the whole of Jammu and Kashmir(including AJK and GB) to the valley, made my day. Anything that helps keep the masses in delusion. BTW, do you seriously fall for this Shia Sunni crap? And how many times have i countered this and how many times have i waited for any reply on the point.
PS: just question the jump from the whole of Jammu Kashmir to the Kashmir valley, now that is a question you must ask yourself. And was there a census to determine this or Indian media crap? 

PPS: Are these folks all Sunnis? no Shias? just curious...











And do you really think they are all being paid too? come on folks, delusion is not going to help.



MilSpec said:


> Given the pictures you have posted, and the number of casualties, you can judge the restraint the forces have exercised.


Thoughts on calling the protesters terrorists and justifying killings of protesters? Should it not be condemned, don't you think such acts will only incite more hatred, especially among the youth. Forget about the youth on this side...
For example take this image:





What result will this lead to? how would you take your mother or sister getting this treatment. Forget about violating curfew and crap...



SrNair said:


> What will you say ,tomorrow if ,Afghanistan says same about Durand Line .?


Why can't we just discuss Kashmir for the time being...


Joe Shearer said:


> Kashmir had legally acceded to India, but by then, two important components (three, counting Chitra, Hunza and Nagar and the Pamir emirates as one entity) had broken away, or were determined to do so and burst into revolt within days of the accession.


Holds no value, depends on what the locals want. Legally speaking so should: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manavadar
Matters what the locals want...
"The last straw was Major Brown’s disagreement over some administrative issue with Governor’s staff that came from Srinagar. The Governor sided with his staff; and Major Brown got extremely angry and locked himself up in a room to analyse the situation and plan his future action. In his book, The Gilgit Rebellion, Major Brown writes, and I quote:


‘I, therefore, felt it was my duty, as the only Britisher left, to follow a course which would prevent this. And further, as a liberal member of the world’s paragon of democracy, I considered that the whole of Kashmir, including Gilgit Province, unquestionably go to Pakistan in view of the fact that the population was predominantly Muslim. Partisan, traitor, revolutionary, I may have been, but that evening my sentiments dictated that if the Maharaja acceded to India, then I would forego all the allegiance to him and I would not rest content until I had done the utmost in my power to ensure that not only the Gilgit Province joined Pakistan, but the whole of Kashmir also.’ Unquote"


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/how-gilgit-baltistan-got-liberated.375789/#ixzz4E5s1swls



The rest i'd say i am done, won't reply unless rainman comes with another one of his golden posts.

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## dray

WAJsal said:


> I was done with this thread and then i saw this golden comment. Love the upgrade, gone from the whole of Jammu and Kashmir(including AJK and GB) to the valley, made my day. Anything that helps keep the masses in delusion. BTW, do you seriously fall for this Shia Sunni crap? And how many times have i countered this and how many times have i waited for any reply on the point.
> PS: just question the jump from the whole of Jammu Kashmir to the Kashmir valley, now that is a question you must ask yourself. And was there a census to determine this or Indian media crap?
> 
> PPS: Are these folks all Sunnis? no Shias? just curious...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And do you really think they are all being paid too? come on folks, delusion is not going to help.



You have completely missed what I wrote, the 'freedom' campaign is limited to the valley, not entire J&K, and it is limited to only the Muslims of Sunni sect. Yes, Shias are now being chased by them, and they have destroyed all the Sufi shrines in the valley. And they want freedom from other non-Muslim Kashmiris also, hence the exodus. So, is it a freedom movement or a religious movement based on brute majoritarianism and persecution of minorities?

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## Joe Shearer

WAJsal said:


> I was done with this thread and then i saw this golden comment. Love the upgrade, gone from the whole of Jammu and Kashmir(including AJK and GB) to the valley, made my day. Anything that helps keep the masses in delusion. BTW, do you seriously fall for this Shia Sunni crap? And how many times have i countered this and how many times have i waited for any reply on the point.
> PS: just question the jump from the whole of Jammu Kashmir to the Kashmir valley, now that is a question you must ask yourself. And was there a census to determine this or Indian media crap?
> 
> PPS: Are these folks all Sunnis? no Shias? just curious...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And do you really think they are all being paid too? come on folks, delusion is not going to help.
> 
> 
> Thoughts on calling the protesters terrorists and justifying killings of protesters? Should it not be condemned, don't you think such acts will only incite more hatred, especially among the youth. Forget about the youth on this side...
> For example take this image:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What result will this lead to? how would you take your mother or sister getting this treatment. Forget about violating curfew and crap...





WAJsal said:


> Why can't we just discuss Kashmir for the time being...
> 
> Holds no value, depends on what the locals want. Legally speaking so should: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manavadar



No, I'm afraid you are wrong there. The locals, by which you mean citizens and residents of the state, wanted a lot of things in a lot of states, but they got what the ruler wanted.

You cited Wiki. Fair enough, let's go with that. Baroda acceded to the Indian Union. That automatically brought all the territories vassal to Baroda into the Indian Union. That includes Junagadh, and that includes the vassals of the vassals, Manavadar. It was the sovereign right of the ruler of Baroda to decide where to put his allegiance, except that he was NOT proximate to the Dominion of Pakistan, and debarred from selecting Pakistan.

That is also why Kalat was rebuffed when the Khan wanted to opt for India.

In an even stronger case, that is why NWFP was deliberately left to the Dominion of Pakistan. That is what led to Bacha Khan telling Nehru,"You have thrown us to the wolves." Remember that provinces of British India were divided according to very high-level discussions between the Muslim League, the Congress and the British. Remember that elsewhere, the decision to go either way was left to the state legislature (as in the case of Bengal); considering that the state legislature in the NWFP was already a Congress-majority one, you can see for yourself why it became necessary to create artificial conditions for a positive vote for Pakistan, by sending the decision back to the electorate, and then by cancelling exactly 49% of the votes, carefully, precisely enough to give the province to Pakistan by popular vote. 

If it had been purely what the locals wanted, wide swathes of British India, pockets within UP, and Bihar, and Bhopal and so on, should have been Pakistan; patches of the Sindh and of the Punjab should have been India. 

Second-guessing what the British decided, what the princes had agreed to and what the Muslim League and the Congress had agreed to leads nowhere.

Most of all, there is a huge gulf between what the people of the Valley wanted in 1947 and what they wanted in 1984 through 1989. And the difference is the focussed effort put into creating a religious divide between Kashmir and the rest of India by an interested power.

Once again, @WAJsal, it is good that Gilgit went its own way; it is good that Baltistan went, part of it, its own way, not entirely on its own volition but whatever; it is good that Mirpur went its own way. Quite clearly, the Dogra state was held together by brute force, and when that brute force failed, when the State forces could not keep the obedience of the people, when their basic loyalty had gone, that state deserved to fall into its component pieces, and I am glad it did so. 

That does not in any way mean that the Valley was part and parcel of the falling apart. It did not fall apart. Just like there were local leaders who strongly influenced local opinion both in Gilgit and in Mirpur, as your own accounts show clearly, there was a local leader who strongly influenced local opinion in the Valley, and pretending that it did not exist, at that time, is not a reasonable reading of the situation. 

So we are left with the question of how long this principle or philosophy of communal demarcation and division should be held in place. Are we to accept that because some external forces, some external personalities believed that the Valley should have gone to Pakistan, that is sufficient grounds to overrule the local sentiment at that time? I emphasise at that time. 

You have to see the record for yourself to see what happened and what is happening.

On none of my visits to Kashmir before the 90s was there even a hint of feeling for Pakistan, or for independence, except among the bare handful of die-hard communalists around Ali Shah (he became Syed and Geelani much later). There were the externally based movements for annexing J&K to Pakistan which had no support outside Mirpur, besides literally a handful of cranks inside the Valley. All that changed from the 90s onwards, and I will not spend time on a Pakistani forum telling a loyal Pakistani what happened. It would be churlish and ungracious and would serve no purpose, none whatever. Just remember that the Mirwaiz's father was assassinated by Pakistani terrorists, that Sajjad Lone's father was assassinated by Pakistani terrorists and that today their sons, the present Mirwaiz, Sajjad Lone himself, are politicians who support separatism in sheer fear of their lives. 

Against that backdrop, when every dissenting voice was shut by a bullet, when every journalist was writing under orders, where music was banned, where women were attacked by acid-throwers for being un-Islamic (out of a burkha), what do you expect the climax to be? And do you consider that accepting once more, seventy years later, that a community could destroy all other elements in society and seek to go the way its most obscurantist leaders want is a possibility for a country that stands for all communities getting equality?



> Matters what the locals want...
> "The last straw was Major Brown’s disagreement over some administrative issue with Governor’s staff that came from Srinagar. The Governor sided with his staff; and Major Brown got extremely angry and locked himself up in a room to analyse the situation and plan his future action. In his book, The Gilgit Rebellion, Major Brown writes, and I quote:
> 
> 
> ‘I, therefore, felt it was my duty, as the only Britisher left, to follow a course which would prevent this. And further, as a liberal member of the world’s paragon of democracy, I considered that the whole of Kashmir, including Gilgit Province, unquestionably go to Pakistan in view of the fact that the population was predominantly Muslim. Partisan, traitor, revolutionary, I may have been, but that evening my sentiments dictated that if the Maharaja acceded to India, then I would forego all the allegiance to him and I would not rest content until I had done the utmost in my power to ensure that not only the Gilgit Province joined Pakistan, but the whole of Kashmir also.’ Unquote"
> 
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/how-gilgit-baltistan-got-liberated.375789/#ixzz4E5s1swls
> 
> 
> 
> The rest i'd say i am done, won't reply unless rainman comes with another one of his golden posts.

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## Jf Thunder

Joe Shearer said:


> If you say so. What will you do for your next trick, convert your wand into a bouquet of flowers?


obviously derailing the topic after you have no more arguments.


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## SrNair

WAJsal said:


> I was done with this thread and then i saw this golden comment. Love the upgrade, gone from the whole of Jammu and Kashmir(including AJK and GB) to the valley, made my day. Anything that helps keep the masses in delusion. BTW, do you seriously fall for this Shia Sunni crap? And how many times have i countered this and how many times have i waited for any reply on the point.
> PS: just question the jump from the whole of Jammu Kashmir to the Kashmir valley, now that is a question you must ask yourself. And was there a census to determine this or Indian media crap?
> 
> PPS: Are these folks all Sunnis? no Shias? just curious...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And do you really think they are all being paid too? come on folks, delusion is not going to help.
> 
> 
> Thoughts on calling the protesters terrorists and justifying killings of protesters? Should it not be condemned, don't you think such acts will only incite more hatred, especially among the youth. Forget about the youth on this side...
> For example take this image:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What result will this lead to? how would you take your mother or sister getting this treatment. Forget about violating curfew and crap...
> 
> 
> Why can't we just discuss Kashmir for the time being...
> 
> Holds no value, depends on what the locals want. Legally speaking so should: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manavadar
> Matters what the locals want...
> "The last straw was Major Brown’s disagreement over some administrative issue with Governor’s staff that came from Srinagar. The Governor sided with his staff; and Major Brown got extremely angry and locked himself up in a room to analyse the situation and plan his future action. In his book, The Gilgit Rebellion, Major Brown writes, and I quote:
> 
> 
> ‘I, therefore, felt it was my duty, as the only Britisher left, to follow a course which would prevent this. And further, as a liberal member of the world’s paragon of democracy, I considered that the whole of Kashmir, including Gilgit Province, unquestionably go to Pakistan in view of the fact that the population was predominantly Muslim. Partisan, traitor, revolutionary, I may have been, but that evening my sentiments dictated that if the Maharaja acceded to India, then I would forego all the allegiance to him and I would not rest content until I had done the utmost in my power to ensure that not only the Gilgit Province joined Pakistan, but the whole of Kashmir also.’ Unquote"
> 
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/how-gilgit-baltistan-got-liberated.375789/#ixzz4E5s1swls
> 
> 
> 
> The rest i'd say i am done, won't reply unless rainman comes with another one of his golden posts.



Of Course .A proud Pakistani cant even think about that .
That is what I am saying .
We dont hate Kashmiris ,they are also our people .
But for us nation comes first .

There is a saying in India 'If a village is threat to a nation ,then you should burn them ,if a family is a threat to village then you should eliminate that family .If one member in that family is a threat to them then he/she should meet his/her end .'
So guys like Wani will end up in graves if they takes arms against state.

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## Joe Shearer

Jf Thunder said:


> obviously derailing the topic after you have no more arguments.



You answered a statement with a non-sequitur, and then you have the barefaced gall to say I have no arguments? Your question in place of anything concrete was an argument?

Do you think before you post?


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## American Pakistani

hellfire said:


> Yup.
> 
> And the armoured divisions do this there when they go upslope at 40 degrees and more and at altitudes off 11000+ feet they fly and fire into Pakistan thereby sending shells over 50+ kms
> 
> You got us mate
> 
> Angry Birds are inspired by Indian Armored Divisions operating in Kashmir
> 
> @Joe Shearer The video link is in support of his statement in case you are not aware of how our tanks are deployed in Kashmir !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing that one of the most polite members around is calling you that, you can assume the answer would be a yes.
> 
> And keeping a track of your posts so far, you meet the criteria of Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale as amended from time to time and score in the range as defined and qualify as a case of IDD as per APA (as per DSM-5) and hence probably @Joe Shearer has indicated as such so that a remedial course may be undertaken - for your benefit



But I accept katju's theory of 99% indians=________


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## Jf Thunder

Joe Shearer said:


> You answered a statement with a non-sequitur, and then you have the barefaced gall to say I have no arguments? Your question in place of anything concrete was an argument?
> 
> Do you think before you post?


stay on topic


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## Arsalan

Massive protests in the whole valley would have been sign enough for anyone who was remotely interested in understanding the situation. For the people there he was a leader and a ray of hope and not a terrorists as Indian media tries to frame him. All this should have come as a sign for the Indian authorities that the issue is far from dead as they claims an i just hope that the Kashmir issue is resolved in the best interest of Kashmiri people. All my best wishes and prayers are always with my Kashmiri brothers/sisters. 

It is such a shame that the so called "civilized" world will just remain silent and choose to look the other way ignoring what the whole valley is portraying right now.

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## Stephen Cohen

Arsalan said:


> Massive protests in the whole valley would have been sign enough for anyone who was remotely interested in understanding the situation. For the people there he was a leader and a ray of hope and not a terrorists as Indian media tries to frame him. All this should have come as a sign for the Indian authorities that the issue is far from dead as they claims an i just hope that the Kashmir issue is resolved in the best interest of Kashmiri people. All my best wishes and prayers are always with my Kashmiri brothers/sisters.
> 
> It is such a shame that the so called "civilized" world will just remain silent and choose to look the other way ignoring what the whole valley is portraying right now.



The one BIG reason why the world chooses to Ignore Pakistani requests for Mediation
is that Kashmir is ALREADY a divided territory

In any territorial dispute ; the simple and time honoured principle is to divide it

Since J and K has already been carved up in THREE parts - India Pakistan and China
all have a part of it

The world community does nt find Pakistani claims to the WHOLE of J and K as credible

Secondly India has already given the Kashmiris many special rights

SO there can never be allegation of discrimination

Hence Any attempt to draw a parallel between J and K and Palestine always falls flat


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## AsianLion




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