# Lahore now the cleanest big city in Pakistan, and greener too. New imagery here!!



## N.Siddiqui

Watch in HD. 


Lahore | Bahria Town | Virtual Tour | Pakistan








Lahore | Sherpao Bridge | Main Boulevard | Cantt | Pakistan








Lahore | Upper Mall | Cantonment | Punjab | Pakistan

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## N.Siddiqui

Lahore is on another level !!











Talal Vlogs | Beautiful Lahore










Watch in HD.

Talal Vlogs | Trip Lahore to Faisalabad PART 1 (motorway journey). Motorway here is as good as it gets.

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## Kompromat

Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.

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## Reichsmarschall

Horus said:


> Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.


and still they'd invade Islamabad and Murree in holidays

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## Zibago

Areas of Lahore are all of Lahore is not ground water has arsenic and the air is most polluted in Pakistan after Karachi

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## N.Siddiqui

Watch in HD



Talal Vlogs | Lahore - A city like no other (part 1)












Vintage Car show by Pakwheels - Emporium Lahore













And this is the clean and green Islamabad, new video.

Islamabad | Pakistan | Virtual Tour

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## AZ1

and karachi is becoming most polluted in the world thanks to bhutoo and army who doesnt take any action against corruption in sindh

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## N.Siddiqui

@Mr.Nair Nair You keep on tagging me in Indian threads ...check these good quality videos posted above.



AZ1 said:


> and karachi is becoming most polluted in the world thanks to bhutoo and army who doesnt take any action against corruption in sindh




Zinda hai Bhutto Zinda hai....one reason for Sindh falling behind in the development, overall. Add to this MQM factor now gone, going.

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## AZ1

Pluralist said:


> @Mr.Nair Nair You keep on tagging me in Indian threads ...check these good quality videos posted above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zinda hai Bhutto Zinda hai....one reason for Sindh falling behind in the development, overall. Add to this MQM factor now gone, going.


 MQM are done now. Army should get rid of them mqm+ppp enough of bhuto. Pti and mustafa kamaal should lead now.

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## rishav

lor lor ae


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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> Watch in HD.
> 
> 
> Lahore | Bahria Town | Virtual Tour | Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lahore | Sherpao Bridge | Main Boulevard | Cantt | Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lahore should develop like Delhi NCR
> 
> Lahore | Upper Mall | Cantonment | Punjab | Pakistan


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## N.Siddiqui

Pluralist said:


> @Mr.Nair Nair You keep on tagging me in Indian threads ...check these good quality videos posted above.




@Mr.Nair...so what is your take, Lahore is cleaner and greener than its Indian counterparts cities or fails to do so. Also the last video about Islamabad.

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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> @Mr.Nair...so what is your take, Lahore is cleaner and greener than its Indian counterparts cities or fails to do so. Also the last video about Islamabad.



You are absolutely wrong, In india we have many cities greener than Lahore...






Kochi
Vishakapattanam
Mysore
Chandigarh
Bangalore
Trivandrum
Surat
Pondicherry
Mangalore and more.....



Pluralist said:


> @Mr.Nair...so what is your take, Lahore is cleaner and greener than its Indian counterparts cities or fails to do so. Also the last video about Islamabad.



Lahore is greener compared to karachi and may be less greener compared to Islamabad.

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## xyxmt

Horus said:


> Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.



I went to Rawalpindi from Karachi in my last trip to Pakistan, as soon as you get out of Islo airport, you feel like you are in a different world. Went to my paternal Tehsil city of Talagang and it was much cleaner than Karachi.

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## Zee-shaun

Bahria Town is always clean and green, no matter which city.
Please post some pics of Mughal Pura, Anarkali, Shadbagh, Ravibagh and other parts of old city to judge how clean Lahore is.

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## N.Siddiqui

More about the newer side of Lahore, better quality videos....


*Gulberg Main Boulevard, Lahore, Punjab, Pakistan*








Zee-shaun said:


> other parts of old city




I know about it...in fact the old walled city of Lahore has been under renovation and a better part of it is restored beautifully. I've lots of pictures of Lahore old city restoration, will post in a new thread.




Newly completed...HD quality
*
Sahianwala | M3 | Faisalabad Express Way | Pakistan*

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## Syed1.

After eating majority of Pakistan's development budget if it still doesn't look clean then God help us.

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## Alternative

Horus said:


> Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.



What budget?
Do 45% of provincial government employees are deputed in Lahore? or 45% of School, colleges, hospitals etc of Punjab are in Lahore?
In last 20 years or so, Lahore City has grown by at least 4 times in area and population; and vast majority has came from Punjab and some from all over Pakistan. And this huge population need infrastructure. But by no means Lahore is consuming 45% of Punjab's budget. If you have stats, then please post it.
And for your information other cities in Punjab has better situation than in Sindh.

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## Major Sam

Syed1. said:


> After eating majority of Pakistan's development budget if it still doesn't look clean then God help us.



any statistics to prove or u r taking it out from ur back?

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## Kabira

Its not that hard to keep city clean. First of all there should be rule of law which is non-existent in Karachi, forget about corruption. They don't followed plan and build houses in any area they could occupy. In Lahore its much harder to do all that. Encroachment is huge problem in all of Pakistani cities but in Karachi its on another level.

Even in Islamabad if they don't follow master plan then in 5-10 years it will start to look like slum gutter which it already look to some extent in some areas.

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## N.Siddiqui



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## Jinn Baba

Good for Lahore.

It's not the fault of Lahoris that our leaders in Karachi/Sindh or any other province are useless.

At least NS/SS did something for their city. What did Gillani do for Multan or Chawdhrys for Gujrat or Zardari for Karachi or sindh!?

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## Kabira

Mr.Nair said:


> Future cities of Asia and see the growth of Delhi by bloomberg recent report
> 
> View attachment 423253
> 
> 
> Look at the busiest airport and growth of Delhi vs others.Delhi soon to join *world's busiest airport*
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Asia



This thread is about cleanness.


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## hussain0216

Mr.Nair said:


> So do you think that Delhi is dirty !! Have seen roads in Delhi? Have you seen big tree structures in Delhi ?
> 
> Do you know that pakistani patients coming to Delhi NCR from Lahore,Karachi,islamabad etc?
> 
> Do you know that Delhi NCR is having more 5 star hotels than all your cities combined?
> 
> Do you know that Delhi NCR is having more vehicles than karachi+lahore+islamabad combined?
> 
> Do you know that Delhi metro carrying passengers equivalent to half of lahore population per day?
> 
> @StandForInsaf @hussain0216 @Spring Onion @Windjammer @RiazHaq @Jf Thunder @SecularNationalist @Khanate @PAKISTANFOREVER



Most Indian cities are very dirty

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## Mr.Nair

StandForInsaf said:


> Nope we didn't know about that , Delhi is that good? care to quote some facts?
> 
> We have heard that it is rape capital
> 
> and
> 
> https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Delhi-so-dirty ?
> http://vethelpdirect.com/blog/tags/india/



Then you are mocking the pakistani patients also to come delhi for treatment? Delhi is having record number of foreign tourists arrivals and every year its keep on increasing...So how many foreign tourists arrived in lahore or karachi if lahore is so great and fine? Don't include Non resident pakistani's,ok.

It's keep on going up....


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## StandForInsaf

Mr.Nair said:


> Then you are mocking the pakistani patients also to come delhi for treatment? Delhi is having record number of foreign tourists arrivals and every year its keep on increasing...So how many foreign tourists arrived in lahore or karachi if lahore is so great and fine? Don't include Non resident pakistani's,ok.



I have nothing against dilli its very old and historical city , but its dirty/rape capital just quoting facts.

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## HAIDER

Mr.Nair said:


> Then why foreign tourists not willing to travel to lahore like delhi, mumbai etc?
> 
> If this girl didn't come to Delhi for operation on time, she will die in lahore, *A big thanks to Delhi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @dexter @Syed1. @Devil Soul @Imran Khan @Dark Lord Forever @HAIDER @Lahore_PAF @PatriotLover


There is balance, India comes to Pak for dine and Pak goes India after affects for treatment. lol.. when you eat this type of stuff, most probably u end up in India..

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## mkiyani

Every one is jealous of Punjab.. Lahore is part of pakistan.. Karachi is not developed its not bcoz of punjab or budget .. its bcoz of sindh government.. so please dont be like indian every time, just blame Punjab for ur failure.. be happy Lahore is part of Pakistan any development any where is good 4 Pakistan.. stop spreading hate and jealousy Lahore or Punjab could be a model for other cities to develop them selves... b4 on metro buses people use to complain now every city is trying to get it like in karachi pehsawar and so.. be happy and dont vote for same people in sindh and elsewhere..

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## Imran Khan

@Mr.Nair what happen to you bro you were a sane member i know

BTW still my city is better then lahore . lahore can go play with karachi . islamabad rocks 

until we did not make underground electricity wiring we sucks

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## Well.wisher

Shukar ha pakistanio ko safaai ka khyaalto aya

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## Imran Khan

Kabira said:


> Just found this, looks like they are working on making old Lahore areas electric wires underground. Will likely take few years though.
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1348902
> http://epaper.dawn.com/DetailImage.php?StoryImage=18_05_2016_177_012
> https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/23573-work-starts-on-walled-city-underground-power-system


hope every city have it bro thanks for good news


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## BATMAN

Horus said:


> Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.


Are you personally effected? and upon what stats you base your dispute?



xyxmt said:


> I went to Rawalpindi from Karachi in my last trip to Pakistan, as soon as you get out of Islo airport, you feel like you are in a different world. Went to my paternal Tehsil city of Talagang and it was much cleaner than Karachi.


North Punjab has traditionally been cleaner than south and center.
People of Pakistan need education in general. Cities can't be kept clean by budgets. It has to be collective culture.



Well.wisher said:


> Shukar ha pakistanio ko safaai ka khyaalto aya


Just few pockets, private efforts be few societies, privately paid nothing to do with govt. of Punjab, which just earns most property tax, utility charges and various other forms of taxes from Lahore.

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## HttpError

Now Punjabis haters will come and accuse us of stealing their resources and what not. Thought I am not a Lahori, but Lahore has really progressed well ahead.

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## BATMAN

Alternative said:


> What budget?
> Do 45% of provincial government employees are deputed in Lahore? or 45% of School, colleges, hospitals etc of Punjab are in Lahore?
> In last 20 years or so, Lahore City has grown by at least 4 times in area and population; and vast majority has came from Punjab and some from all over Pakistan. And this huge population need infrastructure. But by no means Lahore is consuming 45% of Punjab's budget. If you have stats, then please post it.
> And for your information other cities in Punjab has better situation than in Sindh.



He might be having some personal animosity with Lahore.
Karachi is not clean, blame it also on Lahore!



Mr.Nair said:


> One of the pakistani minister told few years back that lahore should be developed like Delhi.Lahore is still about to introduce some of the infrastructure like Delhi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lahore long way to go to catch up with other major cities with regards to economy,business and financial activities,multinational companies presence,world class hospitals,educational institutions,world class airport terminal etc....
> 
> Lahore also required world class stadiums and tracks so to conduct international sports event.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lahore still have to develop glass structures like Delhi NCR and high rise(I don't know why and any regulation not to do so !)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Pluralist @Zibago @Farah Sohail @Muhammad Omar



Take your bharti **** out of Lahore!

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## ashok mourya

Good to see developing Pakistan...

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## Chak Bamu

Horus said:


> Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.


Any facts or figures to quote along with your opinion?

Multiple posters have called on you to substantiate your assertion. Why don't you?

At least some place in Pakistan is half-decent and live-able and you have a problem with that?

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## Kabira

BATMAN said:


> Just few pockets, private efforts be few societies, privately paid nothing to do with govt. of Punjab, which just earns most property tax, utility charges and various other forms of taxes from Lahore.



Only private housing societies clean on their own, rest of old Lahore is cleaned by Lahore waste management company.

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## EpiiC

Cleaner than Islamabad?


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## Kabira

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/904526907714228224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/904538586074292224
Chandigarh size similar to Bahria town lol



Chak Bamu said:


> Any facts or figures to quote along with your opinion?
> 
> Multiple posters have called on you to substantiate your assertion. Why don't you?
> 
> At least some place in Pakistan is half-decent and live-able and you have a problem with that?



Do not expect response with facts. We do get figures of south punjab budget from time to time, their population 30%. Development budget is usually 32% and in education and health close to 40%. Now to think most of remaining budget for north central punjab is spent on Lahore is ridiculous.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1426702/rs-213-billion-set-aside-south-punjab-development/

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## Lucky Breeze

Chak Bamu said:


> Any facts or figures to quote along with your opinion?
> 
> Multiple posters have called on you to substantiate your assertion. Why don't you?
> 
> At least some place in Pakistan is half-decent and live-able and you have a problem with that?


Respected sir
Did you ever drink water from severage feasted pipes. 
Did your loved one died because your local hospital was unable to attend the sevear emergency and they asked you icko Lahore lay jao. 
There are plenty of problems we are facing. Please accept our right of prosperity. 
Thanks

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## Chak Bamu

Lucky Breeze said:


> Respected sir
> Did you ever drink water from severage feasted pipes.
> Did your loved one died because your local hospital was unable to attend the sevear emergency and they asked you icko Lahore lay jao.
> There are plenty of problems we are facing. Please accept our right of prosperity.
> Thanks



The problem in this case is not so much that money is spent in Lahore (it has much higher per-capita income & tax burden too), but that Punjab's (& Pakistan's) development budget is not enough for all the problems. Our security concerns and population growth are major reasons for most of these issues. If we could decrease our population growth & cut our defense expenditure, we would have more options for how & where our development budget is spent.

The money being spent on Lahore is according to a long-term strategy. We want foreign tourists to come and visit Lahore, spend their money, leave with good memories & a positive image of Pakistan. Lahore has to become the face of Pakistan; a clean, well developed, interesting, & memorable place which we can show to the world with hospitality & pride; to show that there is someplace in Pakistan that is clean, safe, & somewhat developed.

I do not know where you are from. But I suggest that, just like private societies in Lahore, gather some funds and dig a deeper bore tubewell to avoid polluted sub-soil water. It is doable & just needs a bit of organization. If people of Sialkot could manage to build their own airport, I bet your folks could get a tubewell going.

I would also urge you to read posts by @Mr.Nair and see what he has to say about development of Lahore. We are far far behind the rest of the world. If Pakistanis can not keep from having a very high population growth, and peace with India looks improbable, then we have to think out of the box to improve our lot. Developing Lahore is not a random fetish but part of an actual well-thought-out plan.

Now I would very much like to hear from @Horus to whom my post was addressed, instead of you. Thanks.

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## Chak Bamu

Kabira said:


> Do not expect response with facts. We do get figures of south punjab budget from time to time, their population 30%. Development budget is usually 32% and in education and health close to 40%. Now to think most of remaining budget for north central punjab is spent on Lahore is ridiculous.
> 
> https://tribune.com.pk/story/1426702/rs-213-billion-set-aside-south-punjab-development/



My friend, we are dealing with House of Sharifs here. So, I would not be surprised if a good bit of that budget is left unutilised and spent elsewhere (Lahore?) instead. My main point is that one should base one's opinions on facts, not emotions. When forum Admin is quoting obviously wrong figures without any references, then one has to ask them to show proof.

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## Mentee

Chak Bamu said:


> Any facts or figures to quote along with your opinion?
> 
> Multiple posters have called on you to substantiate your assertion. Why don't you?
> 
> At least some place in Pakistan is half-decent and live-able and you have a problem with that?


I can vouch for his observation as iam a Punjabi and non Lahori .



Chak Bamu said:


> So, I would not be surprised if a good bit of that budget is left unutilised and spent elsewhere (Lahore?) instead



d.c.o's across the Punjab have been given directions to divert a hefty amount of the development budget of those districts to Lahore



Mr.Nair said:


> You are absolutely wrong, In india we have many cities greener than Lahore...
> 
> 
> 
> Kochi


@RealNapster @Hell hound  Kochi is a city in India

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## DESERT FIGHTER

xyxmt said:


> I went to Rawalpindi from Karachi in my last trip to Pakistan, as soon as you get out of Islo airport, you feel like you are in a different world. Went to my paternal Tehsil city of Talagang and it was much cleaner than Karachi.


MA nigga there is no airport in Islamabad..

The airport is in RWP.



Chak Bamu said:


> My friend, we are dealing with House of Sharifs here. So, I would not be surprised if a good bit of that budget is left unutilised and spent elsewhere (Lahore?) instead. My main point is that one should base one's opinions on facts, not emotions. When forum Admin is quoting obviously wrong figures without any references, then one has to ask them to show proof.


Dear sir, whenever u get the time... Do visit a govt hospital in Lahore (let alone other cities of panjab).


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## RealNapster

Mentee said:


> @RealNapster @Hell hound  Kochi is a city in India



That, i know.

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## xyxmt

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> MA nigga there is no airport in Islamabad..
> 
> The airport is in RWP.(panjab).



should open your ears when you ever fly to Pindi, "hum thori dare me Islamabad ke Jinnah international airport per Pand kerain gye", also should read the sign when you are outside

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## gulli

Imran Khan said:


> @Mr.Nair what happen to you bro you were a sane member i know
> 
> BTW still my city is better then lahore . lahore can go play with karachi . islamabad rocks
> 
> until we did not make underground electricity wiring we sucks


Ye hamari bachpan ke aadat hai meri batting tere batting se aachi hai type Bhart Pakistan ke log alag ho sakte hai par hamari aadte ek jaise hai
BTW Cleanness bring health and prosperity, so keeping your house your village your town your city your country is duty of all individual and go if you are performing your duties.

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## Chak Bamu

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> MA nigga there is no airport in Islamabad..
> Dear sir, whenever u get the time... Do visit a govt hospital in Lahore (let alone other cities of panjab).


To see the money that really should have been invested and spent in hospitals, I go see a military parade & fast jet flypasts. It is the age-old economic trade-off between Guns (military spending) and Butter (Social Services - Education & Healthcare). I have given a pretty good rationale for investing in a city that serves this country for being historic, clean, welcoming, & having a modicum of infrastructure. I know spending only on infrastructure does not help with hospitals and schools directly (indirectly it does), but then this is the direction people elected into power have chosen. Electorate can choose to not elect them if the situation is too bad.

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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> Do you know that Delhi metro carrying passengers equivalent to half of lahore population per day?




False, untrue, wrong.

Lahore population is now 12 million, or 1.2 crore, the daily travelers in Delhi Metro is 2 million or around.

Also one passenger going to point B from A also goes to point A from point B in the evening, like in offices. So they count the rides repeated ones, they are not different passengers showing the city population as comparing with Lahore population. Useless comparison here...



Chak Bamu said:


> I have given a pretty good rationale for investing in a city that serves this country for being historic, clean, welcoming, & having a modicum of infrastructure. I know spending only on infrastructure does not help with hospitals and schools directly (indirectly it does),




These points and your earlier detailed analogy about why Lahore should be developed and at least should look as developing, to get the right optics, the right vibes, even it was symbolism was right and made sense.

Development happens in clusters and all around, across the board development is all idealistic and utopian thoughts, so consider here Lahore as the cluster among many cities in Punjab, or for that matter Pakistan. And in the city Lahore consider Model Town, DHA Lahore, Cavalry area, Gulberg, Jail road, Ferozpur road, Canal road so on and so forth as the clusters in Lahore.

This will remain unless we have a welfare economy, or a pluralistic, inclusive economy with proper, equal distribution of wealth and resources like in Denmark, Finland, Norway, Scotland, or in Canada.

There are no large bungalows as well as no sprawling slums there, an engineer earns and lives in the same housing as a mechanic or a person doing unskilled work. It is more about taxing the rich and spending on poor, or rather on social welfare, as there is no concept of poor there, people who has marginalized income or jobless is provided relief by the government by taxing the rich, all direct taxation unlike in Pakistan where this is just the opposite.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Chak Bamu said:


> To see the money that really should have been invested and spent in hospitals, I go see a military parade & fast jet flypasts. It is the age-old economic trade-off between Guns (military spending) and Butter (Social Services - Education & Healthcare). I have given a pretty good rationale for investing in a city that serves this country for being historic, clean, welcoming, & having a modicum of infrastructure. I know spending only on infrastructure does not help with hospitals and schools directly (indirectly it does), but then this is the direction people elected into power have chosen. Electorate can choose to not elect them if the situation is too bad.



Would u rather have health and education or a jangla bus worth billions?


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## F86 Saber

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Would u rather have health and education or a jangla bus worth billions?



Spending on health an education alone without providing sourcing of employment is not development. Would you like to have a job that pays so that you can pay your medical bill and your child's tuition when needed, or be an unemployed stay at home father with your kids going to public school and Govt. paying for the bill when you or any of your family member gets sick?

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## Chak Bamu

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Would u rather have health and education or a jangla bus worth billions?


It should not be an either-or proposition. How can you choose to make that distinction? If you think Infrastructural development is less important, then go see Karachi.

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## Kabira

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> MA nigga there is no airport in Islamabad..
> 
> The airport is in RWP.


Even new ISB airport is in Pindi and not Islamabad...


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## Taimoor Khan

Mr.Nair said:


> Ok let's compare karachi the biggest city in pakistan with Kochi...Please note that kochi total metropolitan area population is just 2.5 million vs 14 million karachi population and so karachi should outsmart kochi very easily, but let's see..
> 
> 1. Please let me know which is the largest mall in karachi?
> 
> Kochi has 2.5 million sq feet of total buidup area mall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Let's compare the metro system in karachi vs Kochi.In fact karachi does not have rail metro
> 
> View attachment 423485
> 
> 
> 3. Let's compare hospital facilities in karachi vs Kochi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amrita Institute of Medical Sciences (AIMS) has grown to a 1400 bed super-specialty tertiary-care, health science campus integrated to a medical college hospital. *It is now standing as one of the leading high-tech hospitals in Asia*
> 
> 4. Let's compare software industry and park in karachi vs Kochi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 423487
> 
> 
> Karachi not considered as software technology hub in asia
> 
> 5. Let's compare the greenery in Kochi vs Karachi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact kerala itself is ever green land and tropical climate and no comparison at all.I am not comparing the beautiful backwater landscape near kochi..
> 
> 6. Let's compare number of 5 star hotels and infact Kochi has much more 5 star hotels than karachi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Do such monster ships like Quantum sail to karachi port
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Let's compare international airport of Kochi and karachi
> 
> 8.9 million passengers travel through kochi international airport and bigger than karachi
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuY3Nc-SyVk
> 
> *So lot of factors even tier2 city like kochi outsmart biggest city of pakistan even under almost 1/8th of population*
> 
> 
> *Don't take as an offence, but take in positive sense*
> 
> @Pluralist @Taimoor Khan @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Farah Sohail @Moonlight @Windjammer @Zarvan




You are comparing a metropolis like Karachi with some random Indian city which no one knows. Its like comparing oranges with apples. Compare your Mumbai with Karachi.


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## Mr.Nair

Taimoor Khan said:


> You are comparing a metropolis like Karachi with some random Indian city which no one knows. Its like comparing oranges with apples. Compare your Mumbai with Karachi.



If karachi is not comparable to kochi on many factors as above, how it can compare to Mumbai ,which is one of the world's financial capital, holding 3.35 trillion dollar combined market cap stock exchange ?

@Shane @Well.wisher @Spring Onion @Awan68 @Mugwop @RealNapster @Imran Khan @snow lake @Starlord @Basel @Zibago @Draco.IMF @Winchester @shahbaz baig

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## Bilawal Bhutto

Peshawar is going to much better than this by 5 years.

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## Major Sam

PakhtunBradar said:


> Peshawar is going to much better than this by 5 years.


Will believe it when we will see it. Best wishes for it. I want every city to b develop.

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## Bilawal Bhutto

Major Sam said:


> Will believe it when we will see it. Best wishes for it. I want every city to b develop.



It's already happening.


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## Major Sam

PakhtunBradar said:


> It's already happening.


M talking about ur claim for Peshawar will be better than Lahore.


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## Bilawal Bhutto

Major Sam said:


> M talking about ur claim for Peshawar will be better than Lahore.


 It will. And that too without the billion ganja puting all of Pakistan's money in it. Check Peshawar thread


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## Major Sam

PakhtunBradar said:


> It will. And that too without the billion ganja puting all of Pakistan's money in it. Check Peshawar thread



Do you know about NFC provincial distribution? If you dont know anything then i will suggest you to stop ur proganda campaign and have fun where ever u r. 
So they are not spending billions in Peshawar. Money is coming from sky? I heard they are building 55B BTS in Peshawar.


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## Muhammad Raza Mohaiuddin

AZ1 said:


> and karachi is becoming most polluted in the world thanks to bhutoo and army who doesnt take any action against corruption in sindh



even voters are not taking notice of corruption there. how can you blame army there?



Syed1. said:


> After eating majority of Pakistan's development budget if it still doesn't look clean then God help us.


critics critics and critics.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

F86 Saber said:


> Spending on health an education alone without providing sourcing of employment is not development. Would you like to have a job that pays so that you can pay your medical bill and your child's tuition when needed, or be an unemployed stay at home father with your kids going to public school and Govt. paying for the bill when you or any of your family member gets sick?


Sure... But:

Metro doesn't provide jobs... It provides transportation? Which could be handled by running more inter city buses alone. 

Govt hospitals provide free healthcare.. Or at least that's the idea.



Major Sam said:


> M talking about ur claim for Peshawar will be better than Lahore.


Actually cities like Peshawar and Quetta have alot of potential..



Chak Bamu said:


> It should not be an either-or proposition. How can you choose to make that distinction? If you think Infrastructural development is less important, then go see Karachi.


Better usage of public funds. 

You seem to think Lahore is so awesome and all.. 

Visit Jinnah hospital and come back to tell his about it. 

Sure it shouldn't be either.... But health and education should be given priority over roads and janglaz.


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## Major Sam

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Actually cities like Peshawar and Quetta have alot of potential..
> 
> .



Well Many cities have their own Potential, Lahore has rich culture as well as High literacy with capital of 110million people. It will always b ahead in many things.

I onlye have issue with people when inspite of criticizing their own Govt. they bring Punjab and Lahore. Like Some are saying Lahore budget is coming from other province. M from other city i have my own concerns. but mostly its problem with our people they will give vote to those A@@ hole who will do nothing and then they will get vote again.

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## Taimoor Khan

Mr.Nair said:


> If karachi is not comparable to kochi on many factors as above, how it can compare to Mumbai ,which is one of the world's financial capital, holding 3.35 trillion dollar combined market cap stock exchange ?
> 
> @Shane @Well.wisher @Spring Onion @Awan68 @Mugwop @RealNapster @Imran Khan @snow lake @Starlord @Basel @Zibago @Draco.IMF @Winchester @shahbaz baig



Where you plugging this non sense from ? Kochi? wtf is kochi? never heard of it. Any worth city mentioned in India comparable to Karachi is mumbai. And Mumbai itself is like a dirt bag in comparison to karachi , why I say this, because I got family members who are Indian citizens and visit Karachi often and they can easily see the comparison between the two cities. I always find them in awe of Karachi and its grandeur, you have no bloody clue how big karachi is. It is itself a phenomena, a self sustaining entity , it is just not a world biggest metropolis, its much more then that.

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## N.Siddiqui

Still can't decipher when Lahore has elitist hospitals, why Sharif's head to London...??


According to Dr. Shahida A Khawaja, Chief Executive at National Hospital, the newly designed floor is a great prospect to promote luxurious healthcare, attracting medical tourism in the country where global standard treatment can be given to the patients.


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## LeGenD

Lahore is clean? joke of the decade.


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## Alternative

Mr.Nair said:


> If karachi is not comparable to kochi on many factors as above, how it can compare to Mumbai ,which is one of the world's financial capital, holding 3.35 trillion dollar combined market cap stock exchange ?
> 
> @Shane @Well.wisher @Spring Onion @Awan68 @Mugwop @RealNapster @Imran Khan @snow lake @Starlord @Basel @Zibago @Draco.IMF @Winchester @shahbaz baig



Market capitalization of BSE was at about $2 trillion, not 3.35 trillion
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...lub-as-sensex-crosses-30k-117042600624_1.html


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## LeGenD

Well.wisher said:


> Shukar ha pakistanio ko safaai ka khyaalto aya


Nah, my brother.



EpiiC said:


> Cleaner than Islamabad?


No way.

Lahore is too crowded and several major construction works are underway. Lahore is far from being a clean city at its current state. Lot of dust in the air.



PakhtunBradar said:


> Peshawar is going to much better than this by 5 years.


Enlighten me.


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## Alternative

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sure... But:
> 
> Metro doesn't provide jobs... It provides transportation? Which could be handled by running more inter city buses alone.



WoW, Just WOW;
So in your opinion UK. USA, Japan, China etc are all fools, imbeciles that run huge metro trains, metro buses in their metropolises 




DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Govt hospitals provide free healthcare.. Or at least that's the idea.


Where have to seen that government provide "FREE" healthcare to all citizens?
Have you any idea how healthcare systems work in different countries?




DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Actually cities like Peshawar and Quetta have alot of potential..



Like what? I am eager to know.
What industry can readily be establish in these two cities and by whom?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Better usage of public funds.
> 
> You seem to think Lahore is so awesome and all..
> 
> Visit Jinnah hospital and come back to tell his about it.
> 
> Sure it shouldn't be either.... But health and education should be given priority over roads and janglaz.



So you should campaign in KPK to scrape the Rs.55 Billion Peshawar metro bus project....OK.

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## Imran Khan

Pluralist said:


> Still can't decipher when Lahore has elitist hospitals, why Sharif's head to London...??
> 
> 
> According to Dr. Shahida A Khawaja, Chief Executive at National Hospital, the newly designed floor is a great prospect to promote luxurious healthcare, attracting medical tourism in the country where global standard treatment can be given to the patients.


mujhy beemar hona hai or yahan rehna hai 20 saal

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## Alternative

PakhtunBradar said:


> It will. And that too without the billion ganja puting all of Pakistan's money in it. Check Peshawar thread


Dear Baradar
Sad reality is that, it is not going to happen.



Mr.Nair said:


> Then why foreign tourists not willing to travel to lahore like delhi, mumbai etc?
> 
> If this girl didn't come to Delhi for operation on time, she will die in lahore, *A big thanks to Delhi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @dexter @Syed1. @Devil Soul @Imran Khan @Dark Lord Forever @HAIDER @Lahore_PAF @PatriotLover


You must have known about medical tourism worldwide; millions of people all over travel for medical services, nothing special or extraordinary about it. Whoever can afford travels for the best.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...of-medical-attention/articleshow/49474537.cms
And I reckon, Indians do travel abroad for medical treatment.

Civil people are always kind and thankful to other, especially to person that of been any help to them.

What is your point?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Alternative said:


> WoW, Just WOW;
> So in your opinion UK. USA, Japan, China etc are all fools, imbeciles that run huge metro trains, metro buses in their metropolises


WOW, Jus WOW,
Comparing developed nations with one of th heat education and healthcare systems?

Wow just wow, they dont have expensive BRTs rather metros "real" ones... that transport millions of people everyday.. "millions" "every day".. and have extensive inter city bus transport system that actually works!

NY,Beijing or Tokyo didnt spend billions of fukin overhead bridges,seperate tracks for expensive buses! Neither did they invest in metro instead of healthcare and education.

Neither do they have dumbass and ubber expensive "danish" schools.. 



> Where have to seen that government provide "FREE" healthcare to all citizens?
> Have you any idea how healthcare systems work in different countries?



No, i dont.. i however do know about the healthcare policy of Pakistan and nepotism? Would you want me to explain.



> Like what? I am eager to know.
> What industry can readily be establish in these two cities and by whom?



Had your lahori highness ever visited anyother province.. your highness wouod knows about the provincial capitals and the potential they have.. in almost egery field, economic or otherwise.

KPK and Balochistan are both mineral,gemstone and other natural resources.. not counting the agricultural field (most of the fruit you find in lahore like Apples,grapes,pomegranates,dry fruits,dates) comes from there.





> So you should campaign in KPK to scrape the Rs.55 Billion Peshawar metro bus project....OK.



Im from balochistan and not an PTI follower or party worker.

Dear nooni toon.


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## Awan68

Mr.Nair said:


> @Shane @Well.wisher @Spring Onion @Awan68 @Mugwop @RealNapster @Imran Khan
> 
> 
> Mumbai has two stock exchanges BSE and NSE and combined stock market cap is 3.35 trillion dollar
> 
> 
> 
> Whether medical tourism is extra ordinary or not, you can ask those visited india from pakistan, as they know the pain to get visa and all other difficulties and sufferings, which there own country not able to provide.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what i am telling, you never heard a city in india, but that city itself is better in many aspect than the so called largest city of pakistan.It's like saying let's say 'Indians not heard a pakistani city,but that city is having good hospitals,airports,metros,malls than biggest city of india like Mumbai'.Can you imagine that?Even karachi is big but still its not comparable to Tier2 city like Kochi in many aspect.


Stop tagging me man, its annoying.....


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## Alternative

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> WOW, Jus WOW,
> Comparing developed nations with one of th heat education and healthcare systems?
> 
> 
> Wow just wow, they dont have expensive BRTs rather metros "real" ones... that transport millions of people everyday.. "millions" "every day".. and have extensive *inter city *bus transport system that actually works!
> 
> NY,Beijing or Tokyo didnt spend billions of fukin overhead bridges,seperate tracks for expensive buses! Neither did they invest in metro instead of healthcare and education.
> 
> Neither do they have dumbass and ubber expensive "danish" schools..


Why are you so angry.........?
What is your point exactly..............? You scrambled thoughts/ravings are not making any sense?
Only Developed nations should have the BRTs or Metros, in your opinion..? Why the developing countries like, China, India, Mexico, Brazil etc investing in Mass Transit Projects now for their massive cities: Do you consider Pakistan should only construct Mass Transit Projects only after it become "developed"?
BRTs are expensive in your opinion, and what you reckon, "real metros" will be cheaper...?
What is your gauge of being expensive? Do you have conducted any cost comparisons... if yes, please do share your wonderful work with us.
What is this..Transporting millions of people every day.....? Lahore Metro Bus on its single route caters to about 180,000 commuters per day, that is, on a single route. With three more routes, this facility will cater to 'millions' of persons per day. We are not a rich nation, it will take time to setup a comprehensive network.

And, FYI, NY,Beijing or Tokyo *did spend billions and billions of fukin* infrastructure projects over the decades. This is *the* investment over which any economy is built upon, but I now know that you give a $hit about it.




DESERT FIGHTER said:


> o, i dont.. i however do know about the healthcare policy of Pakistan and nepotism? Would you want me to explain.



If you don't know about the health care systems, then, what you want to explain?
Why would I be interested in your ravings? Please keep such thoughts to yourself.




DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Had your lahori highness ever visited anyother province.. your highness wouod knows about the provincial capitals and the potential they have.. in almost egery field, economic or otherwise.



Dear, let me remind you that question was that: What industry can be establish *NOW* and by *whom?*

You are one of most Pakistanis that are being fooled by the notion of "Potential". For example, I will quote an typical government or private school of 50 students of Class 5; All health young children, full of potential: what would you see that about 50% will fail in matriculation; Of remaining 50% will fail in intermediate; hardly 3 to 5% will successful (that done justice to their potential), rest will be 2nd division, 3rd division etc.
Manpower: Potential: What are the capabilities that are needed in modern world? My answer.. NONE.

Rivers are following for millions of years;Potential: and how many dams you have constructed in last 30 years.... Check the number of Dams India constructed for this period.
How long have been REKO DEG/SAIN DEK being discovered: Potential: What had been done with this potential? my answer Zero.
Billion and Billion tons of Coal reserves that are known for decades: Potential: what is the outcome? Zero.

Now, Consider the example of JAPAN, and what natural Potential it have: Relatively small population; Small land huge import of food items; no iron reserves, no petroleum or gas reserves, no previous metals reserves that are need in electronic: And this Japan is an economic giant.

*Potential means worthless $hit if you are not going to put life long hard efforts, make sacrifices*

And this Lahori Highness has traveled far and wide. Please make a note of this.




DESERT FIGHTER said:


> KPK and Balochistan are both mineral,gemstone and other natural resources.. not counting the agricultural field (most of the fruit you find in lahore like Apples,grapes,pomegranates,dry fruits,dates) comes from there.



As it is evident that agricultural produce at current level is nothing special as these will not lift the living standard of people.
Saindek/Reko Dek example has already been quoted; And you must be aware of the debacle it created.
These mineral resources are only pipe dreams unless someone make a serious and hard effort to utilize; and for these to bear fruit huge capital investments and manpower investments will be needed: and from where these would come from?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Im from balochistan and not an PTI follower or party worker.
> 
> *Dear nooni toon*.



And at the end you need to indulge in personal insults: it must be very satisfying for your ego;
This kind of behavior is common now: This is YOU.

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## Kabira

Can government change laws in Lahore to encourage high rise apartments? Waste of great agricultural land.

*Lahore deprived of its agricultural land*

SAMIULLAH RANDHAWA







*LAHORE: *Lack of concern at authority’s end has deprived the provincial capital of thousands of acres of agricultural land during the last two decades, posing a serious threat to the food security in the city.

*At a time when the need for more food is growing because of an uncontrolled increase in population every year, more and more land is being taken over for housing schemes and other projects. As a result, land for agricultural purposes is shrinking with the passage of time, raising concerns for food shortage in the future.*

At the time of partition of the subcontinent, Lahore possessed a total area of 177,204 hectares (437,880 acres). Due to unavailability of resources and absence of a land census, the total cultivated area could not be defined. However, according to a land census, the total cultivated area of Lahore was 166,862 hectares in 1972, which reduced to 81,040 by the year 2000.

With the increasing population in Pakistan, Lahore also witnessed a rapid growth in its population during the last two decades. According to the 1998 census, Lahore had a population of around 6.3 million which has now mounted up to 11 million.

Following the rapid growth in city’s population, authorities remained reluctant to make efforts to save the agricultural land of the city.

Lahore Development Authority (LDA), which is to be considered the sole authority regarding the city’s plan, also failed to cope with the issue as conversion of agricultural land into residential, commercial and other projects continued under its nose. An official in LDA, seeking anonymity, revealed that in 2004, during the Nazimship of Mian Amir Mahmood, LDA’s Metropolitan Department notified a master plan for Lahore (2004-2021) in which residential, commercial, industrial and agricultural areas of the cities were defined clearly. According to this plan, the agricultural land comprising BRB Canal, Hadyara Drain, Khaira Distributory, Bedian Road, Shalimar Link Road, GT Road and Burki Road were proposed for conversion into residential areas.

Besides LDA’s approved societies, many illegal residential societies and other localities have been developed on agricultural lands across the city.

Agricultural expert Dr Ibrahim Mughal said that the agriculture land of Lahore was capable of producing enough vegetables for the entire population of the city. “Due to a decrease in agricultural land, the local production of vegetable and fruits has been decreased up to 70 per cent in the district,” he said, adding that this scenario also poses a serious threat to food security as the production of edible crops like rice, wheat and sugar has also been reduced by 50 per cent during last two decades.

According to Mughal, around one lac acres of agricultural land have been converted to residential and other projects. He said that the rapid decrease in agricultural land is the major cause of Lahore’s underground water. He said, “If we talk about the situation of Lahore two decades ago, around 50 per cent of the area comprised of agricultural land. This land not just helped in producing vegetation but was also a major source of ground water recharging.”

He alleged that land mafia had been converting agricultural land to a residential area as approved by the authorities themselves. Beside this, Mughal also blamed the agricultural department which remained reluctant to save the agricultural land. “I have never seen or heard any official from agricultural department made a draft for the conservation of agricultural land or asked the parliamentarians to bring any legislation,” he added.

A senior member of Pakistan Agricultural Research Council, while expressing his view, said that along with other provinces of Pakistan, Punjab has no land rule act, which is helping bureaucracy convert the agricultural land into residential and industrial zones. Seeking anonymity, he said that LDA remained reluctant regarding the agricultural land while preparing its master plans.

There was a time when the total vegetable production from Lahore was 15 to 20 tonnes per acre but, with the reduction in this land, Lahore’s market now receives around 1,500 tonnes of vegetable from other districts of the Punjab. The official commented and said that during Pervaiz Elahi’s tenure, Punjab government initiated a program for the farmers of Lahore, encouraging them to cultivate more and more vegetable so that price hikes could be avoided. “The programme was rolled back soon after his tenure ended. Instead of growing vegetables, people preferred to convert their lands into residential zones,” he said, adding that the officials of revenue department are also responsible for this because they permitted land owners for conversion.

According to senior lawyer Rafay Alam, lack of land management has also resulted in leap-frog or piecemeal development and undesirably low densities at the cost of prime agricultural land. Talking to _Pakistan Today,_ he said that the conversion of precious agricultural land into residential societies has shifted the production of vegetable, milk and related products to other cities, which has caused a significant increase in prices. However, he does not believe that the reduction in agricultural land has posed a food security threat so far.

*On the other hand, LDA recently started a new housing scheme on a vast area of 7,500 acres. Interestingly a major area of this scheme comprised of agricultural land.*


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## F86 Saber

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sure... But:
> 
> Metro doesn't provide jobs... It provides transportation? Which could be handled by running more inter city buses alone.
> 
> Govt hospitals provide free healthcare.. Or at least that's the idea.



Actually, it does... from the Mechanical, Electrical, Civil Engineers,Masons, electricians, and labor who built it to the drivers, the ticketing staff, security staff, maintenance staff, management and other support staff who are running it, they all did or are still earning from it. 

There is this famous Chinese saying that "You give bread to a hungry person and he will be hungry again tomorrow, you give him a finishing net and you have fed him for life"

There are hospitals which provide free basic and intermediate health care facilities to the poor, i can name at least 8 in Lahore. Yes they are inadequate, why, because simply there are too many people in need and they are increasing by the day. It is because of this burden of population, and that too in the lower class, that is causing inadequacy of free healthcare facilities. I am sorry but it is not the Govt's responsibility to raise your Children, it is yours.

My mother (May her soul rest in peace), who was a college Profession used to tell this incident. Once when the driver was not able to pick her up from the college, she asked her staff to bring a riskshaw for her (she was the Principle at that time). The Riskshaw driver, upon seeing the protocol given to my mother by the staff, and realizing she was someone important, started telling his life story to her on the way which included telling her about his 8 daughters and how he could not afford to send them all to college and telling my mother that she needed to do something about it. My mother used to say that on hearing this, she didn't say anything but thought to herself why on earth would he have 8 daughters if he knew he couldn't afford them and why was it her responsibility to take care of them?

The dilemma of our nation is the belief that every newborn will bring his own "Rizk", now i don't want to be deemed a Kafir but Allah has also given us a brain. Govt. needs to implement a one child policy in Pakistan as well otherwise there is no solution.

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## BATMAN

Pluralist said:


> Still can't decipher when Lahore has elitist hospitals, why Sharif's head to London...??
> 
> 
> According to Dr. Shahida A Khawaja, Chief Executive at National Hospital, the newly designed floor is a great prospect to promote luxurious healthcare, attracting medical tourism in the country where global standard treatment can be given to the patients.



All thanks to overseas Pakistanis. They invest in Pakistan, and take it forward.
Whereas local Pakistanis only spend on imported scrap cars from Japan, Indian movies, paying to Indian advertisement companies, or they pay generously to ship Indian goods all over Pakistan and central Asia.



F86 Saber said:


> Spending on health an education alone without providing sourcing of employment is not development.


To create employment, we need to stop smuggling of goods from India and Iran.
We need to boycott Indian movies, we need to boycott all TV channels which play Indian made advertisements. We need to stop littering our streets, this makes environment dirty, which creates sickness, Pakistan's under ground water and unhealthy meat and vegetables are major cause of cancer. Hence state need to invest in hospitals and auxiliaries, which is basically waste of resources, which could have been well spent on infrastructure development, defense and security.



Chak Bamu said:


> It should not be an either-or proposition. How can you choose to make that distinction? If you think Infrastructural development is less important, then go see Karachi.



Problem of Pakistan is that its development and national security is in hands of politicians.



Kabira said:


> Only private housing societies clean on their own, rest of old Lahore is cleaned by Lahore waste management company.


My dear friend, if you exclude private developed and maintained satellite housings, you are left with 25% of Lahore. i.e. androon Lahore.
And no authority can manage waste, if people don't participate. Lahories should come forward and take ownership of Lahore.
Make Lahore an example to follow for the rest of big cities.

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## Kabira

BATMAN said:


> My dear friend, if you exclude private developed and maintained satellite housings, you are left with 25% of Lahore. i.e. androon Lahore.
> And no authority can manage waste, if people don't participate. Lahories should come forward and take ownership of Lahore.
> Make Lahore an example to follow for the rest of big cities



_"The budget allocations are Rs1 billion more than last year’s budget due to the expansion of LWMC’s services to the whole city, particularly to cooperative housing societies. The areas of Cantonment and railways do not still come under the jurisdiction of the LWMC."_
_https://www.dawn.com/news/1261154_

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## WhyCry

karachi walo ki kyu jala rahe ho?


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## BATMAN

Kabira said:


> _"The budget allocations are Rs1 billion more than last year’s budget due to the expansion of LWMC’s services to the whole city, particularly to cooperative housing societies. The areas of Cantonment and railways do not still come under the jurisdiction of the LWMC."
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1261154_



Let's see how it turns up. Its been more than a year, I last visited Pakistan.



WhyCry said:


> karachi walo ki kyu jala rahe ho?


Karachi has all the potential to out smart Lahore, once they start investing on them selves instead of London.

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## WhyCry

BATMAN said:


> Karachi has all the potential to out smart Lahore, once they start investing on them selves instead of London.


I think they will differ with you being the economic capital of pakistan.


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## BATMAN

WhyCry said:


> I think they will differ with you being the economic capital of pakistan.



While economic back bone of India is Kabul and capitol hill.


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## Sheikh Rauf

These are just areas where upper middle class lives why can't someone post pics of behind "do Moria pull" north side of lahore needs to be clean aswell the amount of pollution they have is unlivable it's sad people only talk about bahria DHA model town town ship and surroundings.


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## WhyCry

BATMAN said:


> While economic back bone of India is Kabul and capitol hill.


Very long backbone.

Its sad to see that your delusion has only intensified over so many years on this site.


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## BATMAN

WhyCry said:


> Very long backbone.
> 
> Its sad to see that your delusion has only intensified over so many years on this site.



Where's the drug money which RAW and CIA earned in addition to the contract fees of private security and supplies?
Don't tell me its invested back in Afghanistan.


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## WhyCry

BATMAN said:


> Where's the drug money which RAW and CIA earned in addition to the contract fees of private security and supplies?
> Don't tell me its invested back in Afghanistan.


I thought ISI has full control of afghanistan with baradar 'taliban' since 1980's and the amdekan left you high and dry in afghanistan. Well I should be the one asking you that question.


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## Mr.Nair

Mentee said:


> I can vouch for his observation as iam a Punjabi and non Lahori .
> 
> 
> 
> d.c.o's across the Punjab have been given directions to divert a hefty amount of the development budget of those districts to Lahore
> 
> 
> @RealNapster @Hell hound  Kochi is a city in India



Look at the number of passengers in even Tier2 cities in India which many very less population vs karachi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinnah_International_Airport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_India

There are 10 cities is India, which carries more passengers than biggest city of pakistan.Neither can't compare the terminal facilities.

So now you want to name karachi city as a town or Indian towns(according to you) as city ?

@Mentee @RealNapster @maximuswarrior @ZeEa5KPul @Areesh

Look at the growth and many will double the passenger volume in 4 years.....

There will be another 4 cities other than 10 cities, will overtake lahore airport passenger volume, by few years from now, since the lahore airport takes almost 15-20 years to double the passenger volume-2.6 million in 2001
to 4.7 million in 2016.The lahore population is even though much much higher than those 4 indian cities.

Still don't know why big cities in pakistan does not have big passenger volume or growth in airports, even though lot of pakistani's are living outside country !
@KN-1 @Zibago @pakistanipower

Every year Delhi airport passenger growth is much more than that of total passenger volume of karachi airport.

The total passengers handling by Karachi+Lahore+Islamabad international airport is around 16 million, when Delhi international airport alone carrying 57 million !


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> Still don't know why big cities in pakistan does not have big passenger volume or growth in airports, even though lot of pakistani's are living outside country !





*IATA Says Pakistan Among Fastest Growing Domestic Air Travel Markets*

IATA (International Air Transport Association) forecasts Pakistan domestic air travel will grow at least 9.5% per year, more than 2X faster than the world average annual growth rate of 4.1% over the next 20 years. The Indian and Brazilian domestic markets will grow at 6.9% and 5.4% respectively.

The other reason is for relatively shorter distances like around 350-400 kms, or shorter people tend to use Motorways and Expressways which Pakistan has a good network compared to India. 

Daewoo(into intercity bus transport) alone owns a fleet of 380 buses that serves over 50 cities and 6 million passengers every year. It also employs over 4,000 workers, 12 percent of whom are women, and IFC’s investment will help Daewoo Express create more jobs as it expands its operations.

Niazi Express is another bus service that has a fleet of over 200 buses serving 20+ destinations.

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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> If you can take the average of Indian airport passenger volume growth itself prove that the report is wrong as most of indian growth is double digit figure and airport like Surat growth is even 105%.




Any city airport passengers traffic, air traffic growth doesn't happens in Isolation. Like say Mumbai airport handled 45 million passengers compared to 6.5 million for Karachi Jinnah terminal should be looked into the context of the size of the country, population size and landmass as well.

Chances of passengers from Delhi and from all over India traveling to Mumbai(1.35 billion of them) makes the passengers traffic 7 times more than Karachi airport(200 million population of Pakistan).

Also giving here example of Dubai as small city with huge air traffic is not right 'cause Dubai has huge transit traffic, serves as a transit air traffic route, hence high air traffic there. Karachi has lost a large transit traffic to Dubai. And the fact that Emirates was helped by PIA is its initial years of business.

Road transport is more in Pakistan between cities....

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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> If you can take the average of Indian airport passenger volume growth itself prove that the report is wrong as most of indian growth is double digit figure and airport like Surat growth is even 105%.



Motorways in Pakistan are approaching 2000 kms in length. 
















Check this massive road traffic between Lahore and Isb/Rwlp at Ravi interchange...this is a jam due to a PTI show. But road traffic is big here. Motorways are preferred over air for shorter distances.

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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> In pakistan the growth must be higher than India, since distance between international airport is larger and should attract more passengers to those big airports and having 200 million population+ large exp community.




M-2 and M-3 Motorway Pakistan, old pics, now traffic is high.


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## Chak Bamu

BATMAN said:


> Problem of Pakistan is that its development and national security is in hands of politicians.


As it should be, may I remind you. If we wish to come out of security-state complex, then grooming politicians via elections is a must. There is no short-cut to this. If we had done things the right way, we would not be in this state after 70 years.

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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> One way it make sense, but india have lot of big airports and those passengers are split into various airports,let's say Mumbai, where you also have pune airport,ahmedabad aiport,baroda airports and many others.So the passengers will travel less to mumbai airport, even mumbai stands near 50 million.In pakistan the growth must be higher than India,




Daewoo and other intercity transporters have incorporated new luxury buses as seen here. More leg room more comfort.







Also new luxury buses added by Connect and others.
















https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/volvo-luxury-bus-islamabad-to-lahore.426739/page-4



















Check this good quality HD video, shot from DJI drone of Lahore outskirts, ring road, Sui gas society, DHA residential areas and many more. Expanding in all directions....

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## Mentee

Mr.Nair said:


> Look at the number of passengers in even Tier2 cities in India which many very less population vs karachi
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinnah_International_Airport
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_India
> 
> There are 10 cities is India, which carries more passengers than biggest city of pakistan.Neither can't compare the terminal facilities.
> 
> So now you want to name karachi city as a town or Indian towns(according to you) as city ?
> 
> @Mentee @RealNapster @maximuswarrior @ZeEa5KPul @Areesh
> 
> Look at the growth and many will double the passenger volume in 4 years.....
> 
> There will be another 4 cities other than 10 cities, will overtake lahore airport passenger volume, by few years from now, since the lahore airport takes almost 15-20 years to double the passenger volume-2.6 million in 2001
> to 4.7 million in 2016.The lahore population is even though much much higher than those 4 indian cities.
> 
> Still don't know why big cities in pakistan does not have big passenger volume or growth in airports, even though lot of pakistani's are living outside country !
> @KN-1 @Zibago @pakistanipower
> 
> Every year Delhi airport passenger growth is much more than that of total passenger volume of karachi airport.
> 
> The total passengers handling by Karachi+Lahore+Islamabad international airport is around 16 million, when Delhi international airport alone carrying 57 million !


what's the deal with this latest series of your obsession with Pak . Ku thak rhy ho ?

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## N.Siddiqui

Lahore has a breathtaking mix of Mughal, Colonial, modern and post modern architecture, not seen in Karachi and many other cities and these heritage, cultural buildings are preserved, unlike in many cities in the sub continent.

Karachi has got colonial era buildings put no Mughal architecture, some Mughal architecture near Thatta Sindh. 


Random pics of Mughal, British Colonial buildings and modern Lahore....it is also about *ownership, preservation and not just about development.*

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## N.Siddiqui

Random pics of Mughal, British Colonial buildings and modern Lahore....it is also about *ownership, preservation and not just about development.*

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## Mr.Nair

Mentee said:


> what's the deal with this latest series of your obsession with Pak . Ku thak rhy ho ?



Kochi also homes to india's one of the largest amusement park, which karachi can't find such rides.






Kochi also have a big and beautiful stadium than karachi

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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> Kochi also homes to india's one of the largest amusement park, which karachi can't find such rides.




Kochi was earlier called Kochin, isn't it....just like Chennai was called Madras, Mumbai Bombay, Kolkata is the new name....

and it is in Kerala state, the greenest with highest literacy rate in India, tropical as well.

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## mkiyani

we need to educate people, to not throw waste out side our home, roads and many other places.. why all Pakistanis when travel to other countries throw garbage in dustbin but in Pakistan they throw it on streets.. every one wants their house clean but they don't care about the all Pakistan streets ... fines should be put if caught throwing garbage outside any where..

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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> About 88.90 lakh (8.89 million) foreign tourists arrived in India in 2016 compared to 80.27 lakh (8.027 million)




India receives just about as many tourists as tiny Spain and France receives per year. France receives an average 80 million tourists every year, almost same numbers for Spain close to 80-75 million. France has a population of 60 million, India 1.35 billion. Spain pop. is about 50 million. 

BTW Pakistan received 1.2 million tourists last year, 1 million as average for last few years, and just like India many of them were NRP's just like NRI visits India...Indian average is better here than Pakistan, albeit not much.

Local tourism is burgeoning in Pakistan. GB witnessed 0.7 million tourist from mainland Pakistan. KPK witnessed 10 lacs(1 million) tourists in summer season...

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## Syed1.

Bunda chota ho leken Mr. Nair jitna chota nahi

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## hussain0216

Mr.Nair said:


> Look at the number of 5 star hotels India and spain in 2015.
> 
> *India is having 430, 5 star hotels* and spain 335 even though spain much larger flow of foreign tourists.Spain and france at europe and so natural they attract more tourists.
> 
> http://news.gtp.gr/2015/11/27/greece-top-10-countries-most-5-star-hotels/
> 
> How many 5 star hotels does pakistan have, i searched but could not find any proper figure?
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER @hussain0216 @Hell hound
> 
> *Carlson Rezidor plans 120 hotels in India by 2020*
> 
> http://www.business-standard.com/ar...0-hotels-in-india-by-2020-116080100010_1.html



India is largely a dump filled with 1.3 billion people most of whom are dirt poor


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> India and China is having most number of metro cities+under construction in the world.




China has about 22,000 Kms of high speed railway, average speed here is above 220 km/hr, India has none, not a single km of high speed Railway.


Pakistan has about 2000 kms of Motorways, India has none, not a single km of Motorway. Engineering, quality of construction is different in Motorways and expressways. 

Motorways has to come up with certain highway design specifications. India has expressways but their total length is not much, a 160 km patch of expressway between Mumbai and Pune, A small road between Delhi and Noida, a few more...not comparable to Motorway system of Pakistan.



Mr.Nair said:


> At least tell me how many 5 star hotels in pakistan




Your Obsession with five star hotels....


Check the 5 star hotels in Lahore, as this thread was about Lahore, many at the final completion stage. 


Starting with new hotels coming up in Lahore

Hyatt Lahore a large 400 rooms plus hotel...





Hyatt Lahore and Serena hotel. 










Serena Lahore is in finishing stage, front, Hyatt in the background 






Unicorn Prestige hotel at Lahore airport, now completed. 










Nishat hotel, a boutique hotel 5 star,





Nishat hotel interior










Emporium Mall Lahore, completed, will have a 5 star hotel in one of the wing. 






Mall interior, can be searched further, bigger than Lulu mall Chennai. 





Nishat hotel 5 star in the taller wing.

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## N.Siddiqui

@Mr.Nair Contd.....Lahore 5 star hotels, hope you are following it.

Faletti's Lahore a 5 star boutique hotel

















Avari Hotel Lahore 5 star

















Bahria Grand resort hotel Lahore. 5 star

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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> China has about 22,000 Kms of high speed railway, average speed here is above 220 km/hr, India has none, not a single km of high speed Railway.
> 
> 
> Pakistan has about 2000 kms of Motorways, India has none, not a single km of Motorway. Engineering, quality of construction is different in Motorways and expressways.
> 
> Motorways has to come up with certain highway design specifications. India has expressways but their total length is not much, a 160 km patch of expressway between Mumbai and Pune, A small road between Delhi and Noida, a few more...not comparable to Motorway system of Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your Obsession with five star hotels....
> 
> 
> Check the 5 star hotels in Lahore, as this thread was about Lahore, many at the final completion stage.
> 
> 
> Starting with new hotels coming up in Lahore
> 
> Hyatt Lahore a large 400 rooms plus hotel...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hyatt Lahore and Serena hotel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Serena Lahore is in finishing stage, front, Hyatt in the background
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unicorn Prestige hotel at Lahore airport, now completed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nishat hotel, a boutique hotel 5 star,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nishat hotel interior
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emporium Mall Lahore, completed, will have a 5 star hotel in one of the wing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mall interior, can be searched further, bigger than Lulu mall Chennai.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nishat hotel 5 star in the taller wing.



India is a country densely populated and long distance travel people prefer by trains and flights(upper middle classes and rich).This is also a major reason we don't have concept of Expressway for past decade instead highway.

The NASA image proof of how vast Indian road networks(from east to west and north to south),compared to Punjab and single stretch road through indus river of pakistan.






Look at one state of India and its road network coverages...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_highways_in_Gujarat

A small state like kerala has 1811 kms of Highways(population density much higher and geography difficult to make very wide roads) and having 4341 Kms of state highways and *major district roads of 27,469 Kms
Can you imagine a small state having 31,811 Kms of road networks(Big and small) !*

India has a road network of over *5,472,144 kilometres* (3,400,233 mi) as on 31 March 2015, the second largest road network in the world(Big and small)

So if you consider this much large network,maintaining the existing one and also constructing new one is not an easy task.In fact india is adding 23 Kms of highways every single day.


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## N.Siddiqui

Pearl Continental Lahore 5 star

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## N.Siddiqui

Hospitality Inn Lahore 5 Star?or maybe 4 star





Hospitality Inn





Park Plaza hotel Lahore











Luxus Grand hotel Lahore 5 star boutique


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## N.Siddiqui

Park Lane hotel lahore and Mall





Best western Lahore





Heritage Luxury suites Lahore










Maisonette Lahore





Hotel One Lahore 4 star












Residency hotel Lahore





Marvel Hotel...tons of hotels like these in Lahore





Herfa Inn Lahore









Royal Palm Golf course and hotel/club with residences on 130 acres



















Lahore Gymkhana Club

















Garrison Club and Golf course Lahore

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## N.Siddiqui

Lahore defence Raya Golf Club and residential houses

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## BATMAN

Chak Bamu said:


> As it should be, may I remind you. If we wish to come out of security-state complex, then grooming politicians via elections is a must. There is no short-cut to this. If we had done things the right way, we would not be in this state after 70 years.



It shouldn't be like this, if we need lesson we should learn from rest of the developed world.
This country can run without politicians x100 better.
Its not only the corruption but the ineptness of the politicians which cost us more.

There is no such thing as grooming of politicians, this term is invented by bunch of corrupt people who's interests are linked being in parliament.

The level of grooming a person may require to take country forward is that he have experience and talent.
Who groomed Musharraf? He was merely running obsolete state machine, which was once built by British.

In today's world, to lead state, one needs vision of future and a plan to embrace that future, otherwise we end up importing mobile phones /tabs and claim to be in same future as Koreans, Japanese or Europeans.

Non of the politicians can tell you, what went wrong and what's his plan to fix. even if his generations were in politics.
So far this country is exisiting only because Army is regularly being called in for help and support in reactive manner.


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## Mr.Cringeworth

rishav said:


> india has motorways(expressways)


the thing you're calling an expressway is not comparable to our motorway,
it does not feel like a real highway, an example it does not have dedicated highway police. a Pakistani motorway police car.







second the Indian highways do not have protection from wildlife, OTOH Pakistani motorway has installed wire fences on the sides of the entirety of the motorways. e.g









rishav said:


> , a decent portion of it is 4 lane , and some stretches are being converted to 6 lane .


Pakistan has almost 2000 km's of motorway and increasing, and not a single kilometer of it is 4 lanes all of it is 6 lanes with an extra emergency lane on both sides, and the future planned motorway from Karachi to Lahore is going to be a 8 lane motorway.


rishav said:


> approaching-Yamuna01 by Mehar, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> approaching-Yamuna02 by Mehar, on Flickr
> 
> ^^ i don't think this "expressway" is in any way inferior to a pakistani "motorway"


LOL you're comparing ^ this to this,













@SrNair @Pluralist @Taimoor Khan @gulli

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## rishav

Cringe said:


> the thing you're calling an expressway is not comparable to our motorway,
> it does not feel like a real highway, an example it does not have dedicated highway police. a Pakistani motorway police car.
> View attachment 424015
> View attachment 424016
> 
> second the *Indian highways do not have protection from wildlife*, OTOH Pakistani motorway has installed wire fences on the sides of the entirety of the motorways. e.g
> View attachment 424009
> View attachment 424010
> 
> 
> Pakistan has almost 2000 km's of motorway and increasing, and not a single kilometer of it is 4 lanes all of it is 6 lanes with an extra emergency lane on both sides, and the future planned motorway from Karachi to Lahore is going to be a 8 lane motorway.
> 
> LOL you're comparing ^ this to this,
> View attachment 424018
> View attachment 424019
> View attachment 424020
> View attachment 424021
> 
> @SrNair @Pluralist @Taimoor Khan @gulli



there is protection from wildlife on the road in the photos i posted, you can see it .
and how are those pakistani motorways better than our expressways ? those are just better photos . Agra lucknow expressway , yamuna expressway also have shoulder lanes . Our highway network is much more than 2000kms , and some pakistani motorways are 4 lane + 2 shoulders .

@Cringe



















[/url

^NH9 , our national highways are not as bad as you guys think , they are certainly not the best but they get the job done

Taken on 20th Sept 2015


























^^ NH 4 (465 km)

*Chennai-Krishnagiri highway*

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## rishav

^^ NH 544

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## Mr.Nair

Cringe said:


> the thing you're calling an expressway is not comparable to our motorway,
> it does not feel like a real highway, an example it does not have dedicated highway police. a Pakistani motorway police car.
> View attachment 424015
> View attachment 424016
> 
> second the Indian highways do not have protection from wildlife, OTOH Pakistani motorway has installed wire fences on the sides of the entirety of the motorways. e.g
> View attachment 424009
> View attachment 424010
> 
> 
> Pakistan has almost 2000 km's of motorway and increasing, and not a single kilometer of it is 4 lanes all of it is 6 lanes with an extra emergency lane on both sides, and the future planned motorway from Karachi to Lahore is going to be a 8 lane motorway.
> 
> LOL you're comparing ^ this to this,
> View attachment 424018
> View attachment 424019
> View attachment 424020
> View attachment 424021
> 
> @SrNair @Pluralist @Taimoor Khan @gulli



As i pointed before, India is having very massive road network(Big and small,paved and unpaved)-*5.4 million kms of road*,Can you believe and maintaining that much of size can create many major economy countries to go bankrupt.

We have very wide network coverage of railway, which carries lot of cargo and so keep out of road, which the transportation of cargo by rail network in pakistan is very small.We never prefer use the term expressway instead like 6 lane highways etc..This is a road in Andhra but they never call as expressway...






This is a high way in Tamil nadu again termed as 'Highway'






The pakistan's road network to its size is very small, as the population is concentrated on particular areas like punjab,sindh and then areas like balochistan is having very less road density.Since a small size and small network, you can easily make 6 lane roads and call as expressway or whatever you want to name....


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## Mr.Nair

Cringe said:


> the thing you're calling an expressway is not comparable to our motorway,
> it does not feel like a real highway, an example it does not have dedicated highway police. a Pakistani motorway police car.
> View attachment 424015
> View attachment 424016
> 
> second the Indian highways do not have protection from wildlife, OTOH Pakistani motorway has installed wire fences on the sides of the entirety of the motorways. e.g
> View attachment 424009
> View attachment 424010
> 
> 
> Pakistan has almost 2000 km's of motorway and increasing, and not a single kilometer of it is 4 lanes all of it is 6 lanes with an extra emergency lane on both sides, and the future planned motorway from Karachi to Lahore is going to be a 8 lane motorway.
> 
> LOL you're comparing ^ this to this,
> View attachment 424018
> View attachment 424019
> View attachment 424020
> View attachment 424021
> 
> @SrNair @Pluralist @Taimoor Khan @gulli



Do you think that India do not have 8 lane road, then here you go....


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> We never prefer use the term expressway instead like 6 lane highways etc..This is a road in Andhra but they never call as expressway...



You cannot build a highway and start calling it Motorway, they have certain parameters and specifications to be met, engineering design, construction quality, the culverts and interchanges, shoulder and lane width, police and signage, other services in the case of accidents....makes it a motorway, or for that matter an expressway.

Also dedicated filling stations, guest rooms and services at intervals are needed.








Rest areas after every 50 kms.






Bus terminus by Daewoo Pak


















Mr.Nair said:


> India is having very massive road network(Big and small,paved and unpaved)-*5.4 million kms of road*,Can you believe and maintaining that much of size can create many major economy countries to go bankrupt.




Also if you look at the construction quality of Indian roads pic below and others posted by you and others, they aren't looking good, look at the bumps, the uneven surface clearly visible, look at the side Kerbs not is proper alignment. Quality is no way comparable to Motorways in Pakistan.















Lahore roads, construction quality is good in Lahore for a number of reasons.

-Big companies like HCS, NLC, FWO are involved in construction of roads and infra equipped with men and machines, latest heavy machinery.



















Lahore kalma Chowk


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## metabug

@Pluralist Not taking anything away from Pakistani highways, but how ignorant you can be degrading Indian highway system? There are massive infrastructure mega projects going on in India right now and modern highway system are no exception.
Those are some good looking Pakistani highways you posted there. But India has a vast in fact second largest network of roadways in the world.

How these expressways/highways less competent?

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## rishav

honestly it's a bit ignorant on your part @Pluralist to think that indian highways , expressways don't have rest areas . why wouldn't they ?
Rest Areas after Karhal Interchange if you are going to Lucknow



rest-area01 by Mehar, on Flickr



rest-area02 by Mehar, on Flickr

Rest area just after bangarmau exit



rest-area01 by Mehar, on Flickr



rest-area02 by Mehar, on Flickr



rest-area03 by Mehar, on Flickr

There are some expressways in india which can be compared to expressways anywhere in the world like
Yamuna Expressway (165 kms)

End of YE


Yamuna Expressway, India by JNath, on Flickr

Smooth Road


Yamuna Expressway, India by JNath, on Flickr

A Jaguar on sight


Yamuna Expressway, India by JNath, on Flickr

Multiple clear signage


Yamuna Expressway, India by JNath, on Flickr

And then there are so called "expressways" in india like this :

KMP expressway (135 kms)






look at the width of the shoulder lane

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## MULUBJA

Pluralist said:


>



Third and seventh picture is superb. My Thumbs up.



LeGenD said:


> Lahore is clean? joke of the decade.



Why?



Pluralist said:


>



These are really good.


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## Mr.Nair

Under construction 6 lane highway in kerala


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## punit

Pluralist said:


> Park Lane hotel lahore and Mall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best western Lahore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heritage Luxury suites Lahore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maisonette Lahore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hotel One Lahore 4 star
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Residency hotel Lahore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marvel Hotel...tons of hotels like these in Lahore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herfa Inn Lahore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Palm Golf course and hotel/club with residences on 130 acres
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lahore Gymkhana Club
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Garrison Club and Golf course Lahore


Hotel Oberoi Udaivilas
https://www.oberoihotels.com/hotels-in-udaipur-udaivilas-resort/gallery

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## FunkyGen

The fact we are talking about cleanliness in the 2nd largest city of Pakistan is lost on Mr. Nair. On the other hand, we have Pakistani, yes you read that right, Pakistani members shit shoveling on development in Pakistan cause Sharif did corruption. Sad state of affairs I must say. *PML-N is getting a lot of votes in the coming election you bet.*

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## N.Siddiqui

Talal Vlogs | Trip to Faisalabad PART 1 (motorway journey) HD quality
, good footage of Motorway between Lahore and Faisalabad.










Motorway travel between Lahore and Faisalabad, Pakistan, good quality HD video, shows the rural side as well.








Newly built Faisalabad Canal Expressway by CDGF


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## Major Sam

Mr.Nair said:


> In India these companies are constructing roads,Look at the company size and revenue !
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larsen_&_Toubro
> 
> Look at the below companies presence all over the world
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punj_Lloyd
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GVK_(conglomerate)
> 
> These are very few out of many.....
> 
> *In pakistan world class companies are absent and every thing depends on China from finanance,design and even construction.*
> 
> Just GVK project alone in india
> 
> *Roads:*
> 
> GVK's Jaipur – Kishangarh Expressway, Rajasthan, the first privately operated six-lane road project with 542.4 lane km. GVK's road portfolio includes other projects of over 900 lane km under various stages of construction and development:
> 
> *Projects under operation[edit]*
> 
> Jaipur – Kishangarh Expressway (542.4 lane km), Rajasthan
> Deoli – Kota Expressway (332.16 lane km), Rajasthan
> *Projects under construction and development[edit]*
> 
> Bagodara – Vasad Expressway (611.4 lane km), Gujarat
> 
> Forget India, these companies are doing business in Singapore,Oman you name it... !
> 
> http://www.punjlloyd.com/infrastructure/roads-bridges
> 
> http://www.newsonprojects.com/story.asp?news_code=15085
> 
> To those think that India will not built an 8 lane....
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purvanchal_Expressway


Btw before talking from your behind you need to search about Pakistani companies. 

For example Nespak 

As of 2016, NESPAK has been contracted to carry out 3,642 projects out of which *3,116 are domestic and 526 are overseas projects with the cumulative cost of projects at $243 billion*.[5][6] Among its projects include $1.65 billion Lahore Metro, $4 billion Neelum–Jhelum Project, $800 million New Islamabad Airport, $893 million expansion of Salalah Airport and the $500 million Farah River Dam Project.[7][8][9][10] NESPAK is also managing the supervision of $128 million 15 small dams' project in Western Saudi Arabia[11] and the Obudu Dam project in Nigeria.[12]

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## Mr.Cringeworth

Mr.Nair said:


> .This is a road in Andhra but they never call as expressway...


a road inside a city cannot be called an expressway or motorway, by that same logic we have 15 to 16 lanes roads in our cities, but we don't call them highways.

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## Kabira

On google map not many long distance expressways in India, only Pune-Delhi one and that too about 300KM.

Google map distinct between expressway/motorways with wider orange line then highways. These lines are visible without zooming in much. In couple of years Pakistan expressways/motorway line will have expanded from Peshawar-Karachi. Also motorways connecting swat, sialkot, hazara, mirpur, muzaraffad etc

There are even plans to extend Motorway to Kabul in near future.

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## N.Siddiqui

Kabira said:


> On google map not many long distance expressways in India, only Pune-Delhi one and that too about 300KM.
> 
> Google map distinct between expressway/motorways with wider orange line then highways. These lines are visible without zooming in much. In couple of years Pakistan expressways/motorway line will have expanded from Peshawar-Karachi. Also motorways connecting swat, sialkot, hazara, mirpur, muzaraffad etc
> 
> There are even plans to extend Motorway to Kabul in near future.





*the difference between motorway and expressway*

is that motorway is (british|ireland|new zealand|parts of australia) a broad highway designed for high speed traffic, having restrictions on the vehicle types permitted and merging lanes instead of cross traffic; in parts of the united states and other places called freeway while *expressway* is a divided highway where intersections and direct access to adjacent properties have been eliminated.


As there are no restricted Motorway system in India and their expressway length is about 15,00 kms, they are mixing things here. 

Like they think that a highway can be called a Motorway, or an expressway is same as a motorway...only the difference is of countries with different names in diff. countries. This is the common mistake people make.



Cringe said:


> a road inside a city cannot be called an expressway or motorway, by that same logic we have 15 to 16 lanes roads in our cities, but we don't call them highways.



Like *Bahria Town Karachi* main corridor is of 5+5 lane and as service lanes are also included it makes it 18 lanes in width.

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## Mr.Cringeworth

rishav said:


> there is protection from wildlife on the road in the photos i posted


no there is not you are just pointing at the guard rails, protection from wildlife is different it is these wired fences which keeps any animals away and prevents crashes, any good highway has those an example.







you can clearly see those fences in the black circles.


rishav said:


> and how are those pakistani motorways better than our expressways ?


can you prove otherwise, i provided two simple points about having a dedicated police for the highway and protection from wildlife you could not debunk them.


rishav said:


> Our highway network is much more than 2000kms


our total highway network is 12,131 kms and the 2000 kms of motorway was added in just last two decades.

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## Mr.Cringeworth

Mr.Nair said:


> 24 lane gurgaon road...


from my first message in this thread i tried to make a point that why the motorway was better then the Indian highways and i provided facts for that, and all you did is to try and turn this into a dick measuring contest.sir please refrain from this and come to the point at hand.



rishav said:


> those guard rails are enough


no they are not on highways which have speed limits more than 130 km/h if any cow or dogs appear suddenly that can be catastrophic, the motorways in UK do have those fences but only in urban areas because that is where most of the wildlife is,




in south Asia most of the wildlife lives near cities thats why it is a necessity in our motorways.


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> In India these companies are constructing roads,Look at the company size and revenue !




*Bahria Town* (Urdu: بحریہ ٹاؤن‎) is a Rawalpindi-based privately owned real-estate development company which owns, develops and manages properties across Pakistan.

It is the largest private real estate company in Asia.[1]

Most of these communities are large towns in their own right, its oldest community in Rawalpindi spans over 16,000 hectares (40,000 acres).[5] The under-construction Bahria Town Karachi spans over 16,000 hectares (40,000 acres) and it is the largest privately owned residential community in the country.[6] Combined, its projects have the capacity to house over a million people.[7]

and Bahria Town engages all big Pak companies like Principal builders, Mughals, NESPAK, NLC, for all the engineering, structural, mechanical and civil work. DESCON Pak, Amrelli steels, Envicrete, and others.

*Products* Town
Commercial area
Plots
House
Villa
Restaurants
Hotel
Golf clubs
Hospitals
*Revenue*



US$10 billion (2015)
*Total assets*



US$20 billion (2015)
*Number of employees*
60,000 (2016)


*Website* http://www.bahriatown.com/





















*The reason Lahore is getting cleaner by the day...*


*Lahore Waste Management Company*

http://www.lwmc.com.pk/index.php


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## N.Siddiqui

*City's beautification campaign has everybody talking*

* PHA director general says purpose to beautify the city is to give citizens a healthy environment







New intl' standard drains.


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## Laozi

Pluralist said:


> *Bahria Town* (Urdu: بحریہ ٹاؤن‎) is a Rawalpindi-based privately owned real-estate development company which owns, develops and manages properties across Pakistan.
> 
> It is the largest private real estate company in Asia



Sir, with due respect I would suggest to do some online research* before comparing Bahria Town with Larsen and Toubro* which happens to be 9th largest company of India and is ranked 527 worldwide.

Just check the financials of the two companies from *independent credible sources* before posting whatever is available at Wikipedia


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## N.Siddiqui

Laozi said:


> Just check the financials of the two companies from *independent credible sources* before posting whatever is available at Wikipedia





Laozi said:


> Sir, with due respect I would suggest to do some online research* before comparing Bahria Town with Larsen and Toubro*




Can't get churlish than this...Bahria Town is purely a real estate developer. Check my posted comments, from where did you deduced the comparison.

Expecting some sage and thoughtful comments from you...

I was replying to Mr.Nair actually...

And this is a fact that Bahria Town is one of the/the largest real estate developer in this part of the world.


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## rishav

Cringe said:


> from my first message in this thread i tried to make a point that why the motorway was better then the Indian highways and i provided facts for that, and all you did is to try and turn this into a dick measuring contest.sir please refrain from this and come to the point at hand.
> 
> 
> no they are not on highways which have speed limits more than 130 km/h if any cow or dogs appear suddenly that can be catastrophic, the motorways in UK do have those fences but only in urban areas because that is where most of the wildlife is,
> View attachment 424150
> 
> in south Asia most of the wildlife lives near cities thats why it is a necessity in our motorways.



okay but i don't think that a motorway MUST have it , then why do you think Indian expressways don't qualify ?


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## rajdhani express

lore lore ae

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## Mr.Cringeworth

rishav said:


> okay but i don't think that a motorway MUST have it , then why do you think Indian expressways don't qualify ?


okay it's not a must but isn't it better than not having it.


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## My-Analogous

Pluralist said:


> Watch in HD.
> 
> 
> Lahore | Bahria Town | Virtual Tour | Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lahore | Sherpao Bridge | Main Boulevard | Cantt | Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lahore | Upper Mall | Cantonment | Punjab | Pakistan


After eating atleast 20% of whole Pakistan development budget, what you guys expecting?


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## BATMAN

Mr.Nair said:


> If you can take the average of Indian airport passenger volume growth itself prove that the report is wrong as most of indian growth is double digit figure and airport like Surat growth is even 105%.Karachi airport have to grow almost 1700 % to come equal to Delhi's 19 % growth(If per year passenger volume have to match).
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_India
> 
> Pakistan do not having good rail connection, but still air traffic is not growing like India, even though Indian railway is much better connectivity.Pakistan have to grow more than India if this point have to take into consideration.May be pakistan is a small country and so people consider air travel more expensive with in pakistan, even though population of pakistan is more than 200 million !
> 
> This is an international airport terminal under construction in Tier3 Indian city
> 
> View attachment 423866



More Indian trash on Lahore thread!!!
Why is all world so interested in putting Lahore down?
Must be something in its soil !!! but why Indians are allowed unchecked by the so many acclaimed Pakistanis?



My-Analogous said:


> After eating atleast 20% of whole Pakistan development budget, what you guys expecting?



Which project of Lahore is financed by state of Pakistan?



rajdhani express said:


> lore lore ae


Lahore is indeed a lore of Pakistan, and first line of defence for Pakistan.


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## Kabira

My-Analogous said:


> After eating atleast 20% of whole Pakistan development budget, what you guys expecting?



Any source?


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## My-Analogous

BATMAN said:


> More Indian trash on Lahore thread!!!
> Why is all world so interested in putting Lahore down?
> Must be something in its soil !!! but why Indians are allowed unchecked by the so many acclaimed Pakistanis?
> 
> 
> 
> Which project of Lahore is financed by state of Pakistan?
> 
> 
> Lahore is indeed a lore of Pakistan, and first line of defence for Pakistan.



I am talking about availability of funds for Lahore and can someone compare that with Karachi?



Kabira said:


> Any source?


Check funds usage for Lahore and rest of Pakistan


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## Kabira

Pluralist said:


> *the difference between motorway and expressway*
> 
> is that motorway is (british|ireland|new zealand|parts of australia) a broad highway designed for high speed traffic, having restrictions on the vehicle types permitted and merging lanes instead of cross traffic; in parts of the united states and other places called freeway while *expressway* is a divided highway where intersections and direct access to adjacent properties have been eliminated.
> 
> 
> As there are no restricted Motorway system in India and their expressway length is about 15,00 kms, they are mixing things here.
> 
> Like they think that a highway can be called a Motorway, or an expressway is same as a motorway...only the difference is of countries with different names in diff. countries. This is the common mistake people make.



Looks like google map doesn't differentiate between expressway and motorway.



My-Analogous said:


> Check funds usage for Lahore and rest of Pakistan



I'm checking and can't find anything concrete, please post some source.


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## BATMAN

Mr.Nair said:


> Kochi also homes to india's one of the largest amusement park, which karachi can't find such rides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kochi also have a big and beautiful stadium than karachi



Why Lahore is a bench mark for every Indian? Why everything in India has to be compared with Lahore and Lahoris....
FYI, no amount of concrete can replace Lahore's culture, heritage and lively ambience!



My-Analogous said:


> I am talking about availability of funds for Lahore and can someone compare that with Karachi?



If those funds are spent on administration and cleaning, than that means its a huge city.
It also means its THE most revenue making city of Pakistan!


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## Jak101

Horus said:


> Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.


Do you have any statistics / link to back up 45% budget claim. I hear a lot, but have yet to see some facts behind it


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## Burhan Wani

If you want to feel 45 degree summer then please visit Lahore between 20 October and 10 November.


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## N.Siddiqui

*New Malls in Lahore, Pakistan

WALTON | Packages Mall | 1.2 million sq. ft. | Complete*
*





























































*


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## Sully3

Horus said:


> *Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget *of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.


This is the most ignorant post on this forum i have seen.
Care to explain how Lahoris are eating up 45% of the budget? why attack lahoris rather then the government?

moaning about Lahore doing its job and then keeping a blind eye on what is happening in Karachi is hilarious. Your karachities can't even provide basic cleaning facilities for the population so what hope have they got making roads or other infrastructure. before you ever dare moan about lahore look at what is happening in karachi first then dare to raise a voice against lahoris.

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## N.Siddiqui

*Lahore Johar Town | Emporium Mall by Nishat Group | MIX | 2.75 million sq. ft. | Complete*
*

































*


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## Sully3

Laozi said:


> Now I have done some googling and I must say that I have under estimated Malik Riaz who owns Bahria Town and half of Pakistan
> 
> Good to see that you people take pride in quoting guys like Riaz.
> 
> May all your corporate world be like Bahria Town owners


you bitter bitter old man, get your sorry a$$ of this thread. 

can smell the jealousy from a mile away.

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## N.Siddiqui

*Lahore Johar Town | Emporium Mall by Nishat Group | MIX | 2.75 million sq. ft. | Complete*


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## Laozi

Sully3 said:


> you *bitter bitter old man*, get your sorry a$$ of this thread.
> 
> *can smell the jealousy* from a mile away.



Looking at your Avataar pic and signature one can easily judge your character.


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## I M Sikander

AZ1 said:


> MQM are done now. Army should get rid of them mqm+ppp enough of bhuto. Pti and mustafa kamaal should lead now.


Sorry to say but Mustafa kamal has failed badly in Karachi.
And PTI is no where in Karachi. 
2013 tsunami in Karachi is all over, check all by elections results.


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## Imran Khan

karachi main jab tak bhutto zinda hai awam marti rahy gi

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## I M Sikander

Thanks to shahbaz shareef and his dedication.

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## Glockaholic

Lahore lahore aye

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## WaLeEdK2

Take a good look at places like Gujranwala and see the neglect.

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## AZ1

Ranasikander said:


> Army?
> 
> So u think its army duty to clean the gutters and roads on Karachi and take action against corruption in sindh and Karachi.


 When no one is working, who you will have your hopes with? Don't tell me you will hope court will take action. By that time I and you will be either too old or will be in graves.

Judges to me is also corrupt. 1 favorable decision = 1 luxury flat for them.


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## alimobin memon

Imran Khan said:


> karachi main jab tak bhutto zinda hai awam marti rahy gi


Bhutto Ya MQM ? Can't just blame PPP you know.

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## STRANGER BIRD

*Rickshaws decorated at Qaddafi Stadium #Lahore *.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/907512790092587008

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## Irfan Baloch

Pluralist said:


> *New Malls in Lahore, Pakistan
> 
> WALTON | Packages Mall | 1.2 million sq. ft. | Complete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


sorry I reject these fake pictures. they dont represent 99.99% of Lahore and its people


following is the Lahore I have seen and recognize


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## BATMAN

Lahore is an old city... above pictures are from walled city, which forms 10% of Lahore (see google maps). This part of Lahore can't simply be razed.
Lahore continue to expanded and surrounding villages became part of it as satellites within large city, but the people who don't live in those satellites don't visit those unplanned buildups.

This is URDU BAZAR market place for all of Punjab. Located across the walled city.
Fully commercial, selling low cost books, only carts and porters can be seen there.

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## Signalian

Thanks for sharing, great videos.

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## STRANGER BIRD



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## N.Siddiqui



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## BATMAN

Visitors to Lahore should help Lahories keep it clean.
And you are welcome, Thanks.

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## somebozo

Karachi has now become shame of Pakistan..to start with..it is extremely filthy..and after eid..it became really smelly too!


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## I M Sikander

somebozo said:


> Karachi has now become shame of Pakistan..to start with..it is extremely filthy..and after eid..it became really smelly too!


Believe me dear, it's extremely painful to see karachi in such a pathetic condition. 
Daily life is getting worse in Karachi , my family got so frustated that they me to settle in any other city as the city is getting worse.

The level of filthiness in city is beyond imagination.


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## Irfan Baloch

Ranasikander said:


> Believe me dear, it's extremely painful to see karachi in such a pathetic condition.
> Daily life is getting worse in Karachi , my family got so frustated that they me to settle in any other city as the city is getting worse.
> 
> The level of filthiness in city is beyond imagination.


Karachi suffers due to racism and ethnic rivalry of Urdu speaking community and the Sindhis. their leaders are corrupt and selfish and punish this city.

but the thread is about Lahore so stay on topic or open a new thread about cities that are not doing well in Pakistan. we are dazzled here by select pictures of top end malls where 99% of Lahoris cant imagine to enter let alone shop. while there is nothing wrong in showing off such glam and glitter but I prefer to see old town and buildings and common people who have more real life depiction of a modest city which is clean and graceful

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## U-571

Irfan Baloch said:


> Karachi suffers due to racism and ethnic rivalry of Urdu speaking community and the Sindhis. their leaders are corrupt and selfish and punish this city.



which ethnicity controls entire pakistan including its army?



AZ1 said:


> MQM are done now. Army should get rid of them mqm+ppp enough of bhuto. Pti and mustafa kamaal should lead now.



i live in army cantonment area, and it used to be the filthiest area of karachi until a city government from its own money made roads there, dengue virus had become very common in our locality due to sewer water in our roads and garbage situation

the army didn't make one proper road in our cantonment, it was MQM and mustafa kamal cit govt who made roads in our areas

where did all the taxes go? the army had commercialised residential areas in our contonment and is earning a lot but garbage still piles on and they dont collect the garbage, they have rented and sold every inch of public footpath to the business, it had becom very difficult to walk on footpath because they are being rented to some local businessman

park have been sold to land mafia and all parks lands have been sold to make big plazas, i can snap one picture or two if you like, a mosque land in railway land in a cantonment area was sold to builder

we also had no water, no electricity and no gas in our area, all were developed after city govt came to karachi, even though city govt had no resource earning or authority in cantonment areas

city govt also made drainage system in DHA army area which used to become river indus during rains

i went to a marriage ceemony of my relative and not surprisingly it was in COD of Karachi and we were restricted to take cameras inside because we were entering a 'security area'

so please before inviting army, ask them what have they done themselves in karachi except making big money from real estate, faji foundation and marriage halls and all other illegal businesses?

not to mention the blue schemed water tankers with 'Sindh Rangers' written on them clearly showing who is running tanker business in the city.

an army guy didnt know how to drive his car slammed into ours, instead of apologising he started threatening and beating our driver.

apne kartut theek kerlo, mulk khud hi sahi ho jaye ga

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## Irfan Baloch

U-571 said:


> which ethnicity controls entire pakistan including its army?
> 
> 
> 
> apne kartut theek kerlo, mulk khud hi sahi ho jaye ga


I am talking Karachi , not entire Paksitan
by the way, its a small Kashmiri family which controls the entire Pakistan. they were originally blacksmiths but their fortunes turned when Zia made one of them a politician


Amen to your dua


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## BATMAN

Irfan Baloch said:


> their fortunes turned when Zia made one of them a politician


their made more fortunes after death of Zia, in 90's.


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## U-571

Irfan Baloch said:


> I am talking Karachi , not entire Paksitan
> by the way, its a small Kashmiri family which controls the entire Pakistan. they were originally blacksmiths but their fortunes turned when Zia made one of them a politician



Karachi is part of Pakistan, who rules pakistan rules not just punjab but entire pakistan

the federal govt, the provincial govts, are responsible and given that federal govt, supreme court and virtually every department is controlled by 'hidden hands' its the hidden hands who are controlling karachi

few years ago the hidden hands started mohajir pashtun riots to create panic in the city then brought terrorism and now sindhi mohajir rivalry is being given excuse for karachi's short comings

census team were always with a pakistani army armed soldier so how did census get rigged?

we all know who plays with the fortunes of karachi, and who earns the most from it.

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## AZ1

Irfan Baloch said:


> sorry I reject these fake pictures. they dont represent 99.99% of Lahore and its people
> 
> 
> following is the Lahore I have seen and recognize



May be there is difference of camera taking those pics .

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## I M Sikander

ICC XI tour Pakistan iscomi.g toan end with amazing scenes in lahore.



















Complete jam pack in Lahore near Qaddafi stadium during matches .

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## Sully3

Laozi said:


> Looking at your Avataar pic and signature one can easily judge your character.


seeing that you an indian on an enemies defence forum one can easily see through the kind of man you are.

not wanted or welcomed here. but then again you indians have no sharam what so ever.


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## N.Siddiqui

Choefat International School, Jauhar Town, Lahore





Command and Control center Lahore

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## N.Siddiqui




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## N.Siddiqui

Old city Lahore


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## N.Siddiqui




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## N.Siddiqui

St Anthony Church Lahore

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## N.Siddiqui

Aitchison Lahore

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## I M Sikander

Pluralist said:


>


Bus kar day bhai. Kyun hum karachi walon ko jalla raha hai.

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## N.Siddiqui

Ranasikander said:


> Bus kar day bhai. Kyun hum karachi walon ko jalla raha hai.



Karachi is still more cosmopolitan than Lahore, a financial and commercial hub. Nothing to be jealous about, Lahore is a city of Pakistan and we take pride in all the cities of the country. 

I live in Karachi BTW.

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## livingdead

looks beautiful... i dont think any indian city is as clean.... being dirty(outside) is culturally acceptable in India.
when i crossed india-bhutan land border, i was ashamed to call myself indian in front of bhutanese.

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## Gibbs

Form a third party (neutral) that have visited both India (Bombay, Madras, Chandigarh, Culcutta, Kerala and Delhi and others) and Pakistan (Islamabad and Karachi) 

As far as cleanliness goes hands down

Islamabad > Chandigarh > Bangalore.. Rest of India not even close including Kochi.. Karachi compares with Old Delhi or Calcutta totally chaotic and messy.. Couldn't make it to Lahore so cannot comment

As far as infrastructure and general amenities along with night life and entertainment goes it has got to be Bombay and then Bangalore.. Pakistani cities are way more conservative compared to Indian cities, Except may be eating out

Standards of roads Pakistan way ahead in quality, A bit better in road usage, Indian roads are a free for all no rules.. This include their expressways, With two and three wheeled vehicles all over the place.. In places like Delhi, Bombay and Madras car users actually fold their side mirrors in to avoid other vehicles, Animal life and pedestrians casually knocking them off

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## Mr.Cringeworth

Gibbs said:


> Form a third party (neutral) that have visited both India (Bombay, Madras, Chandigarh, Culcutta, Kerala and Delhi and others) and Pakistan (Islamabad and Karachi)
> 
> As far as cleanliness goes hands down
> 
> Islamabad > Chandigarh > Bangalore.. Rest of India not even close including Kochi.. Karachi compares with Old Delhi or Calcutta totally chaotic and messy.. Couldn't make it to Lahore so cannot comment
> 
> As far as infrastructure and general amenities along with night life and entertainment goes it has got to be Bombay and then Bangalore.. Pakistani cities are way more conservative compared to Indian cities, Except may be eating out
> 
> Standards of roads Pakistan way ahead in quality, A bit better in road usage, Indian roads are a free for all no rules.. This include their expressways, With two and three wheeled vehicles all over the place.. In places like Delhi, Bombay and Madras car users actually fold their side mirrors in to avoid other vehicles, Animal life and pedestrians casually knocking them off


you should have been to Lahore, you'll find that infrastructure you're looking for and even cleanliness.

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## Sugarcane

Cringe said:


> you should have been to Lahore, you'll find that infrastructure you're looking for and even cleanliness.



Lahore also don't have night life he is talking about.

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## Gibbs

Cringe said:


> you should have been to Lahore, you'll find that infrastructure you're looking for and even cleanliness.



Next time probably.. The pics posted looks great but i'd always judge a place through personal experiences

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## Mr.Cringeworth

LoveIcon said:


> Lahore also don't have night life he is talking about.


true that, night life is not in our culture you wouldn't find it anywhere in Pakistan.


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## N.Siddiqui

Gibbs said:


> with night life and entertainment goes it has got to be Bombay and then Bangalore.. Pakistani cities are way more conservative compared to Indian cities, Except may be eating out





Night life if one is talking about casinos, and gambling clubs, pubs and night clubs are non existent for public, though there are some private elitist night clubs(stealthy though) in some high end areas of Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad and in some five star hotels...only the clubs and not the casinos.

There is an alternate elitist westernised culture in Pakistan, talking about night life, with drink parties and all that dance and trance. 

And in general night life in Pakistan means late night parties, eating out, wedding and dances included, hanging out in clubs and eateries. Different from India to quite an extent...specially if talking about pubs and night clubs.

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## STRANGER BIRD

Ranasikander said:


> Bus kar day bhai. Kyun hum karachi walon ko jalla raha hai.


yar jallo mat, QK aap ko pata hain k *BHUTTO ABI TK ZINDA HAIN OR ZINDA RAHY GA*, or *BHI* ka to pocho mat.
karachi bohot jaldi taraqi karlayga agr *Qaim ali shah wapis CM bn gya to*. me to kabi kabi sochta ho k bechara ab soy ga kaha , sony ke jaga pr to Murad ali shah bet gaya.

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## Awan68

Cringe said:


> a road inside a city cannot be called an expressway or motorway, by that same logic we have 15 to 16 lanes roads in our cities, but we don't call them highways.
> View attachment 424128


where is this man?


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## Baby Leone

James-bond said:


> *Mapped: The countries with the most trees*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> According to WB India has 23% and Pak 2% ..
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/countries-with-the-most-forest-and-trees/
> 
> Few pictures here and there in Parks won't make whole country as greener.
> 
> Indian Jungles have 70% World - Wild tigers,Asian elephants, Asiatic Leopards and Lions.... They are the symbol of our great forests flora and fauna.
> 
> PS:This is for some fake idiots who are dragging India else I don't have any problem with Pak,lahore or karachi.


no one brought India except some indians and few foreigners who have visited both Pakistan n India.....BTW you are right about forest in Pakistan and its shameless that in industrialization no Pakistan govt focused on environment. But we are happy and hopeful about the work KPK govt is doing to increase forests.


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## James-bond

Kami leone said:


> no one brought India except some indians and few foreigners who have visited both Pakistan n India.....BTW you are right about forest in Pakistan and its shameless that in industrialization no Pakistan govt focused on environment. But we are happy and hopeful about the work KPK govt is doing to increase forests.



That is why i called them FAKE idiots.

Industrialization in Pakistan?? When and where?? If you compare with ...India is far more industrialized than Pak still our forests are increasing and yours decreasing day by day.

But 2% forest in Pakistan is really disturbing as you share same flora and fauna once with India (before 70yrs).


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## Baby Leone

James-bond said:


> That is why i called them FAKE idiots.
> 
> *Industrialization in Pakistan?? When and where?? If you compare with ...India is far more industrialized than Pak* still our forests are increasing and yours decreasing day by day.
> 
> But 2% forest in Pakistan is really disturbing as you share same flora and fauna once with India (before 70yrs).


now see who is comparing....we have our own industrialization which we dont like to compare with that of india hence i didnt even took india's name. you guys start di!k measuring contest with everyone and in every thread and when someone show you mirror you starts complaining.

change your attitude be nice with everyone for them to be nice with your country who has problem with everyone.


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## The Diplomat

James-bond said:


> Savage people who live in deserts and eat lizards and what ever that crawls.
> 
> btw few cowards who convert to barbarian invaders religion and copy their traditions never understand the importance of greenery and wild life.


Looks who’s talking... The Indian who is on a thread about Lahore being clean... stop trying to derail the thread.
And for your info Pakistan has done a bit for forestising the country; Changamanga is the words largest man built forest.
Kp Gov just planted 1B trees.

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## Kambojaric

James-bond said:


> That is why i called them FAKE idiots.
> 
> Industrialization in Pakistan?? When and where?? If you compare with ...India is far more industrialized than Pak still our forests are increasing and yours decreasing day by day.
> 
> But 2% forest in Pakistan is really disturbing as you share same flora and fauna once with India (before 70yrs).



The pathetic thing is that even with a 2% forest coverage, Pakistan has better air quality than India!

https://qz.com/794542/air-pollution-map-by-country-fine-particulate-matter/

As for forests in Pakistan, they are returning as re-forestation campaigns take off

https://www.voanews.com/a/one-billion-trees-planted-in-pakistan-nw-province/3983609.html

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## N.Siddiqui

Kambojaric said:


> The pathetic thing is that even with a 2% forest coverage, Pakistan has better air quality than India!




The total area of forests in Pakistan is 4.224 million hectares which is 4.8% of the total land area. However, it may be mentioned here that the farmland trees and linear planting along road sides, canal sides and railway sides covering an estimated area of 466,000 ha and 16,000 ha respectively do not constitute forests within the context of legal, ecological or silvicultural/management definition of forests.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Gibbs said:


> Form a third party (neutral) that have visited both India (Bombay, Madras, Chandigarh, Culcutta, Kerala and Delhi and others) and Pakistan (Islamabad and Karachi)
> 
> As far as cleanliness goes hands down
> 
> Islamabad > Chandigarh > Bangalore.. Rest of India not even close including Kochi.. Karachi compares with Old Delhi or Calcutta totally chaotic and messy.. Couldn't make it to Lahore so cannot comment
> 
> As far as infrastructure and general amenities along with night life and entertainment goes it has got to be Bombay and then Bangalore.. Pakistani cities are way more conservative compared to Indian cities, Except may be eating out
> 
> Standards of roads Pakistan way ahead in quality, A bit better in road usage, Indian roads are a free for all no rules.. This include their expressways, With two and three wheeled vehicles all over the place.. In places like Delhi, Bombay and Madras car users actually fold their side mirrors in to avoid other vehicles, Animal life and pedestrians casually knocking them off


You probably went to the wrong side of Karachi. 

Most people mistaken the outskirt immigrant slum towns which fall under the division of Karachi, as 'Karachi' in it's whole.

The main part is pretty nice and modern.






Also, if you think that Pakistan was way ahead of infrastructure, you should have visited Lahore then. Much of it's road infrastructure cannot even be matched here in the states.

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## N.Siddiqui

Bird and butterfly park, Lahore






























G.O.R and racecourse park, Lahore

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## lastofthepatriots

Everyone in Pakistan hates Lahore.


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## N.Siddiqui



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## STRANGER BIRD

lastofthepatriots said:


> Everyone in Pakistan hates Lahore.


it's not true, not everyone only jealous People ...

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## lastofthepatriots

STRANGER BIRD said:


> it's not true, not everyone only jealous People ...



It's true my friend. Everyone hates Lahore, but more importantly everyone hates Lahoris.


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## Clutch

James-bond said:


> U little Jihadis will never get over 5000 yrs Hindus rule over Indian subcontinent will u, the inferiority complex is sickening, historically converted people have little to treasure except desert, now f***k off former subject or slave might i say of my great ancestors who created superpowers for mileniums while u little ugly dumplings were pimping women to invaders n cleaning ur backsides with leaves, heck the western renaisance or age of enlightment was even fathered by a Hindu philosopher, now cool off with camel urine, history/Arabs doesn't like u Converted Muslims..



Look to get banned? See ya...


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## Malik Usman

Mr.Nair said:


> You are absolutely wrong, In india we have many cities greener than Lahore...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kochi
> Vishakapattanam
> Mysore
> Chandigarh
> Bangalore
> Trivandrum
> Surat
> Pondicherry
> Mangalore and more.....
> 
> 
> 
> Lahore is greener compared to karachi and may be less greener compared to Islamabad.



As expected.....was thinking......whey still no Indian trolled here........showcasing their own cities immediately comparing with Pakistan....


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## Mr.Nair

Malik Usman said:


> As expected.....was thinking......whey still no Indian trolled here........showcasing their own cities immediately comparing with Pakistan....



I was responding to the @Pluralist statement that lahore is cleaner and greener than Indian counter parts cities which i mentioned wrong in his statement.

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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> I was responding to the @Pluralist statement that lahore is cleaner and greener than Indian counter parts cities which i mentioned wrong in his statement.



Lahore looks to be cleaner than most of the Indian cities you have mentioned, cleanliness is one thing which Indian cities falls behind(large cosmopolitan cities). As far as the 'greener' the cities you've mentioned like Kochi and Chandigarh, Mysore, Trivandrum, Surat, Pondicherry are relatively small cities, now Lahore has a population of 12 million(1.2 crore).

Check the pic below of Lahore and open in full size clicking at it.


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## N.Siddiqui

Malik Usman said:


> As expected.....was thinking......whey still no Indian trolled here........showcasing their own cities immediately comparing with Pakistan....




As this is an open forum anyone can write, post his opinion here within the prescribed framework of forum guidelines. Competition, comparison, is a good thing actually, India and Pakistan keeps comparing and competing in a lot of things and it is good for Pakistan and India too. 

A bit of bragging, boasting, chest thumping should be allowed, aren't it...from both sides.


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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> Lahore looks to be cleaner than most of the Indian cities you have mentioned, cleanliness is one thing which Indian cities falls behind(large cosmopolitan cities). As far as the 'greener' the cities you've mentioned like Kochi and Chandigarh, Mysore, Trivandrum, Surat, Pondicherry are relatively small cities, now Lahore has a population of 12 million(1.2 crore).
> 
> Check the pic below of Lahore and open in full size clicking at it.



You are not much aware about Bangalore,Delhi,Navi Mumbai and many other places considered world class cities and not regional cities.You can check any major flight magazines,international tourism guidelines etc all over the world mentioning Mumbai,Delhi etc as major international tourism hot spot.Lahore will be greener according to pakistani standard and not Indian or International standard.

A city becomes world class based on over all aspect including hospitals,educational institutions,MNC's,Top bank presence,iconic buildings,budget,foreign tourists flows,airports,transportation facilities like metros,Budget etc and not based only on population.


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> western ghats including Mumbai are situated one of the most natural tropical climatic conditions,rich vegetation, where many other geographic locations lacks.Moreover they are also located on the side of beaches where lot of cities lacks such luxury+vegetations....These are just for informations and don't consider as trolls..





Mumbai and many south west and south east India is naturally green, and verdant. Lahore open wooded areas are all man made and planned. Still more wooded areas are needed. Yes Lahore is surrounded by lots of agriculture land and farms and this need to be protected, mushroom growth of cities is eating and depleting the precious agriculture land and and sustainable housing is needed, here I am for highrise construction but people in Lahore just hate/dislike apartment living...


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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> Mumbai and many south west and south east India is naturally green, and verdant. Lahore open wooded areas are all man made and planned. Still more wooded areas are needed. Yes Lahore is surrounded by lots of agriculture land and farms and this need to be protected, mushroom growth of cities is eating and depleting the precious agriculture land and and sustainable housing is needed, here I am for highrise construction but people in Lahore just hate/dislike apartment living...



Its not like apartment buildings they hate, but builders cant find much rich clients compared Delhi,Mumbai,Bangalore etc.Land cost in kee areas of Indian cities are much more expensive compared pakistani cities.The apartment cost in kee areas in Mumbai is equivalent to cost of whole building in Lahore and same goes for land.For any city to grow rapidly, that city host international companies,hotel chains,business activities etc and i believe lahore lacks...


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> Mumbai,Delhi etc as major international tourism hot spot.Lahore will be greener according to pakistani standard and not Indian or International standard.




Delhi ranks number one in pollution in the world, capital city(high 2.5 mm particulate material) 8 deaths in Delhi due to lungs infection and failure daily, so it is not clean by world standards or any standards.

Mumbai is not known for its cleanliness, 62% of Mumbai population lives in slums.

India ranks 2nd in the world in unequal distribution of wealth.

It is a well known fact that cities in Pakistan are much cleaner than its Indian counterparts, many Indians has accepted this who has visited Pakistan.


India fared worst, with 2.5 million people dying early because of pollution, followed by China with 1.8 million deaths, according to The Lancet Commission on Pollution and Health, a two-year

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...eaths-of-9-million-a-year-study-idUSKBN1CO39P



Mr.Nair said:


> Its not like apartment buildings they hate, but builders cant find much rich clients compared Delhi,Mumbai,Bangalore




Karachi has a lot of apartments, still not more than 30% of the population lives in apts....Lahore people doesn't likes apartments(concept of apna roof, apni zameen). As for the high prices,very high prices means less affordability for middle and lower middle class and more slums and ghettos, so this is not a good thing, housing should be affordable and not very high priced. Case in point is Mumbai, the slums keeps on increasing because of the high prices and high prices are there cause no affordable land is available.


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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> Delhi ranks number one in pollution in the world, capital city(high 2.5 mm particulate material) 8 deaths in Delhi due to lungs infection and failure daily, so it is not clean by world standards or any standards.
> 
> Mumbai is not known for its cleanliness, 62% of Mumbai population lives in slum.
> 
> India ranks 2nd in the world in unequal distribution of wealth.
> 
> It is a well known fact that cities in Pakistan are much cleaner than its Indian counterparts, many Indians has accepted this who has visited Pakistan.
> 
> 
> India fared worst, with 2.5 million people dying early because of pollution, followed by China with 1.8 million deaths, according to The Lancet Commission on Pollution and Health, a two-year
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...eaths-of-9-million-a-year-study-idUSKBN1CO39P



Pollution problem will be there for many major Indian cities and that shows business activities.One can stay happy in a village and say that i do not have pollution problem.As i showed before a city like Delhi NCR have more vehicles than all cities in pakistan combined.There is rapid growth in tourism in these cities.You can also think that if lahore is much greener and cleaner then

Why there is no major tourists flow in the city?
Why lahore do not have many major 5 star hotels?
Why lahore do not have world class international airports?
Why lahore lacks world class hospitals?
Why companies like Microsoft,facebook,google,Amazon and many majors not having much presence in lahore, though lahore is considered IT capital of pakistan?



Pluralist said:


> Delhi ranks number one in pollution in the world, capital city(high 2.5 mm particulate material) 8 deaths in Delhi due to lungs infection and failure daily, so it is not clean by world standards or any standards.
> 
> Mumbai is not known for its cleanliness, 62% of Mumbai population lives in slums.
> 
> India ranks 2nd in the world in unequal distribution of wealth.
> 
> It is a well known fact that cities in Pakistan are much cleaner than its Indian counterparts, many Indians has accepted this who has visited Pakistan.
> 
> 
> India fared worst, with 2.5 million people dying early because of pollution, followed by China with 1.8 million deaths, according to The Lancet Commission on Pollution and Health, a two-year
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...eaths-of-9-million-a-year-study-idUSKBN1CO39P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Karachi has a of apartments, still not more than 30% of the population lives in apts....Lahore people doesn't likes apartments(concept of apna roof, apni zameen). As for the high prices,very high prices means less affordability for middle and lower middle class and more slums and ghettos, so this is not a good thing, housing should be affordable and not very high priced. Case in point is Mumbai, the slums keeps on increasing because of the high prices and high prices are there cause no affordable land is available.



There is no slum increase in Mumbai infact those are decreasing, day by day as those properties are taken by builders one by one.Most will find a better way of living in other places and this will not happen overnight.In India just 22 year students(middle class people) start getting very high salary after campus selection etc and this is not the case in lahore as companies cannot afford such luxury neither much companies present to offer such perks.


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> There is rapid growth in tourism in these cities.You can also think that if lahore is much greener and cleaner then




India is not a tourist destination by any stretch of imagination, according to Indian media reports hardly 8 million tourists visited India last year, Pakistan received 1.75 million tourists last year(foreign and NRP's) just like Indian gets NRI's as tourists, apart from foreigners.

France attracted 80 million tourists last year(10 times the Indian average) and France has a population of 6.5 crore, compare this with India population. Most of the other things you've written is a bit childish and not true, umpteenth time you have written this which again is stereotypical and not true.



Mr.Nair said:


> There is no slum increase in Mumbai infact those are decreasing, day by day as those properties




High property prices means more Slums and Ghettos specially in south Asian cities you know why. It is Indian media reports that 62% of Mumbai population lives in slums...


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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> India is not a tourist destination by any stretch of imagination, according to Indian media reports hardly 8 million tourists visited India last year, Pakistan received 1.75 million tourists last year(foreign and NRP's) just like Indian gets NRI's as tourists, apart from foreigners.
> 
> France attracted 80 million tourists last year(10 times the Indian average) and France has a population of 6.5 crore, compare this with India population. Most of the other things you've written is a bit childish and not true, umpteenth time you have written this which again is stereotypical and not true.



For your information, India is a developing country and not situated in middle of europe like france enjoys.You can simply goes around posh places in major indian cities vs karachi or lahore and know a foreigner hardly can find in pakistani cities(not insult, but truth).I am not telling a foreigner siting in wagha border,or hiking in mountains or diplomats.You itself know how many foreigner roam around karachi or lahore for site seeing etc.I am not telling none but hardly you can find.This is a reality and this is a truth.


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> For your information, India is a developing country and not situated in middle of europe like france enjoys.You can simply goes around posh places in major indian cities vs karachi or lahore and know a foreigner hardly can find in pakistani cities(not insult, but truth).I am not telling a foreigner siting in wagha border,or hiking in mountains or diplomats.You itself know how many foreigner roam around karachi or lahore for site seeing etc.I am not telling none but hardly you can find.This is a reality and this is a truth.




Check these videos, female Dutch tourist visited India and Pakistan both all alone as a backpacker, she actually said in her last video that she will not visit India again and she was all praise for Pakistan people and hospitality. She actually used the word 'shithole' in one of the video description about India....and we all know a female all alone backpacker will find India dangerous(rape incidences) and the people are not hospitable and open in most of the cases...

India...















Pakistan...

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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> Check these videos, female Dutch tourist visited India and Pakistan both all alone as a backpacker, she actually said in her last video that she will not visit India again and she was all praise for Pakistan people and hospitality. She actually used the word 'shithole' in one of the video description about India....and we all know a female all alone backpacker will find India dangerous(rape incidences) and the people are not hospitable and open in most of the cases...
> 
> India...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan...



You came up with one lady statement and generalize it.Even US,Europe suffering such issues especially countries like greece etc, as lone ladies afraid to go alone at night on certain areas.But that does not mean that no one going to Greece.

India’s Travel & Tourism sector was also the fastest growing amongst the G20 countries, growing by 8.5% in 2016. A further 6.7% growth is forecast for 2017.No one bother one person statement and increasing every year..

You can go and ask any one in Europe/US and keep a choice of going India or Pakistan.You will get an answer.

India is the world’s 7th largest tourism economy in terms of GDP as per WTTC

Read more at: https://www.wttc.org/media-centre/p...st-tourism-economy-in-terms-of-gdp-says-wttc/
Copyright @ WTTC 2017

You can check how much pakistan is getting from tourism,how many people depends on tourism etc..to get answer

So how far pakistan earning in tourism?

Indian tourism industry is a 220 billion dollar in 2016, which is equivalent to pakistan's 70% GDP.what about pakistan?


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> Indian tourism industry is a 220 billion dollar in 2016, which is equivalent to pakistan's 70% GDP.what about pakistan?




220 billion USD is in PPP(as tourism is a service sector) Pakistan GDP PPP is 1.1 trillion USD....correction here.


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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> 220 billion USD is in PPP(as tourism is a service sector) Pakistan GDP PPP is 1.1 trillion USD....correction here.



Its not PPP but nominal and tourism constribute almost 9% of Indian GDP in nominal.


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> Its not PPP but nominal and tourism constribute almost 9% of Indian GDP in nominal.



Any link to it....

Pakistan tourism scene.

The WTTC report also examined investment in the tourism sector.

It said investment in travel and tourism in the country was Rs375.2bn ─ or 9.3pc of total investment ─ in 2016, and is expected to rise by 8.1pc in 2017.

"It should rise by 8.1pc in 2017, and rise by 8pc per annum over the next 10 years to Rs872bn in 2027, 11.4pc of the total."

Approximately 4.8m people in Pakistan are estimated to be employed in the industry by 2027, the report said.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1360604


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> One major Indian city holds more 5 star hotels than all pakistani cities combined.




Have replied to your all delusions and illusions earlier many times on your repeated posts.

One main reason 'India has a population of 1.35 billion and Pakistan has a population of 207 million, just 15% of India population.

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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> Any link to it....
> 
> Pakistan tourism scene.
> 
> The WTTC report also examined investment in the tourism sector.
> 
> It said investment in travel and tourism in the country was Rs375.2bn ─ or 9.3pc of total investment ─ in 2016, and is expected to rise by 8.1pc in 2017.
> 
> "It should rise by 8.1pc in 2017, and rise by 8pc per annum over the next 10 years to Rs872bn in 2027, 11.4pc of the total."
> 
> Approximately 4.8m people in Pakistan are estimated to be employed in the industry by 2027, the report said.
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1360604



http://www.travindinstitute.com/blog/2017/09/25/world-tourism-day-27th-september-better-tourism


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> One major Indian city holds more 5 star hotels than all pakistani cities combined.




Grow up man, this is so childish...

I can cite dozens of facts about India like this one...

NEW DELHI, India-* 1. One-third of the world’s poor live in India.

1.India is home of largest population of illiterate adults in world – 287 million, amounting to 37% of the global total.


1. Social Inequality Leading to Exclusion and Marginalization

5. Unequal Distribution of Wealth
India happens to be a rich country inhabited by very poor people. – Dr Manmohan Singh

https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/Reasons-Why-India-is-So-Poor


*

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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> Have replied to your all delusions and illusions earlier many times on your repeated posts.
> 
> One main reason 'India has a population of 1.35 billion and Pakistan has a population of 207 million, just 15% of India population.



Even the proportion of population with figures, there is no match....

Bangalore population is almost 10 million vs 200 million pakistan population.You can compare export figure

Gujarat population is almost 65 million vs 200 million pakistan population.You can compare electricity production.
By the way Gujarat is not the largest electricity producer in India, so to know the scale of difference.

India is having many major airports where pakistan having few, still almost 55 million passengers travel every year vs 16 million passengers of all pakistan airports combined.

and the list going....


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> India is having many major airports where pakistan having few, still almost 55 million passengers travel every year vs 16 million passengers of all pakistan airports combined.



Read this article, this will help in clearing your views like why the development in India is so lopsided and why India ranks 2nd in the world in unequal distribution of wealth. India will always be like few rich, few islands of prosperity surrounded by oceans upon oceans of poverty, despair and filth.....till the end of times, or till the end of caste system in India which is not possible(as caste system is in Hinduism, well entrenched). So India will remain like what I've written earlier till the end of times...till the end of the world. 


Read this...reason why India is so poor

https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/Reasons-Why-India-is-So-Poor

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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> Grow up man, this is so childish...
> 
> I can cite dozens of facts about India like this one...
> 
> NEW DELHI, India-* 1. One-third of the world’s poor live in India.
> 
> 1.India is home of largest population of illiterate adults in world – 287 million, amounting to 37% of the global total.*



India is growing faster than any major economy as of now.From FDI more than 400 billion, to exports rise above 25% in Sept,becoming 2nd largest producer of steel over taking Japan,becoming 5th largest producer of automobiles overtaking korea,becoming 6th rank in GDP nominal vs 10th few years back though 3rd largest in GDP PPP,becoming one of the largest country implementing metro rail construction in cities(Even Tier2 cities have metro) and 3rd largest producer of electricity in the world with 330GW,with implementation of bullet train network etc..We have short coming and will overcome in a few decades, but going in right path..

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...67-to-2861-bn-in-september/article9904507.ece



Pluralist said:


> Read this article, this will help in clearing your views like why the development in India is so lopsided and why India ranks 2nd in the world in unequal distribution of wealth. India will always be like few rich, few islands of prosperity surrounded by oceans upon oceans of poverty, despair and filth.....till the end of times, or till the end of caste system in India which is not possible(as caste system is in Hinduism, well entrenched). So India will remain like what I've written earlier till the end of times...till the end of the world.
> 
> 
> Read this...reason why India is so poor
> 
> https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/Reasons-Why-India-is-So-Poor



You can mention whatever you want, but the end of the day how much succeed is what count...India will become 5th largest economy in a year or 2.Inequality is every where including US,China etc...Now you turn your tune towards religion and caste system, which is nothing to do with subject.As i told, if every thing is so perfect in pakistan, then pakistan should grow more than India(In proportion) and pakistani's should not come to india for treatment.It should name as the land of opportunity and lot of tourist have to flow.But that is not happening !


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## James-bond

Guys please stop this Di* measuring contest and concentrate on lahore ...............

if pak want to compare-compare yourself with your equal-Afghanistan may be you are little better than them in few parameters like Chinese are little better than India but overal Pak-Af is one group like Indo-Chin.

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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> India is growing faster than any major economy as of now.From FDI more than 400 billion, to exports rise above 25% in Sept,becoming 2nd largest producer of steel over taking Japan,becoming 5th largest producer of automobiles overtaking korea,becoming 6th rank in GDP nominal vs 10th few years back though 3rd largest in GDP PPP,becoming one of the largest country implementing metro rail construction in cities(Even Tier2 cities have metro) and 3rd largest producer of electricity in the world with 330GW,with implementation of bullet train network etc..We have short coming and will overcome in a few decades, but going in right path..




All this is useless for the Indian masses, the teeming millions upon millions of Indians if the development is not trickling down to the lower strata of the society.

What is the use of 400 billion USD in reserves for about a billion people who are living in despair and disease if looked by intl' standards, Indian poverty levels benchmark though makes them above poverty levels.


Development and distribution of wealth has to be holistic and plural, India has billionaires and a billion people not eking out a decent living.

China has lifted about 700 million people out of poverty through holistic and plural policies....call it socialism, communism or what. India has wealth accumulation in the hands of a few capitalist class, like Ambanis, Adanis and jindals, and India's capitalist caste and creed system supports this all...no hope here.


96% of the population in India has wealth below $10,000 (Rs.6.8 lakhs). 3% of the country is classified as middle class having wealth above $13,700 (Rs.9.3 lakhs). 0.3% of our population is worth above $100,000 (Rs.68 lakhs). There are 1.78 lakh people who are worth above $1 million (Rs.6.8 crores).



Mr.Nair said:


> then pakistan should grow more than India(In proportion) and pakistani's should not come to india for treatment.




Wealth distribution is still much better in Pakistan than India, the upper class in Pakistan is 7% of total population in Pakistan, in India it is about 3% of total population in India, dozens of other wealth distribution parameters where Pakistan is better off.



Mr.Nair said:


> caste system, which is nothing to do with subject




I've mentioned caste system in India as it has everything to do with lopsided development in India and unequal distribution of wealth and resources. This is the main impediment of holistic and equal distribution of wealth in India...

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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> All this is useless for the Indian masses, the teeming millions upon millions of Indians if the development is not trickling down to the lower strata of the society.
> 
> What is the use of 400 billion USD in reserves for about a billion people who are living in despair and disease if looked by intl' standards, Indian poverty levels benchmark though makes them above poverty levels.
> 
> 
> Development and distribution of wealth has to be holistic and plural, India has billionaires and a billion people not eking out a decent living.
> 
> China has lifted about 700 million people out of poverty through holistic and plural policies....call it socialism, communism or what. India has wealth accumulation in the hands of a few capitalist class, like Ambanis, Adanis and jindals, and India's capitalist caste and creed system supports this all...no hope here.
> 
> 
> 96% of the population in India has wealth below $10,000 (Rs.6.8 lakhs). 3% of the country is classified as middle class having wealth above $13,700 (Rs.9.3 lakhs). 0.3% of our population is worth above $100,000 (Rs.68 lakhs). There are 1.78 lakh people who are worth above $1 million (Rs.6.8 crores).



Do you know that almost 1/3rd of china is a no man's land.China is a dictatorial regime and one is under the mercy of govt to consider having choice of even 2 child(Who the govt to decide how many child one wanted),
there is no freedom of protest and express opinion.Yes democracy have short comings, but no one will like to live under dictatorship like China or North korea.They lift poverty but the expense of people freedom(Its like caged lion will get all the meat, but it is caged).China is communism in paper but capitalism in practice.

By the way Ambainis,Adani's,TATA's or whatever creating millions of job directly or indirectly, which in turn benefit from common man.From porter to driver to accountant to manager to CEO you name it.They are not making money from tree and private companies increase performance of a labour vs lazy babu employees.


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> India is growing faster than any major economy as of now.




When you say India is growing faster than any major economy, you actually means a few capitalist class, a few wealth accumulators and not the 1.35 billion plus population of India, they are growing faster than any one.

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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> When you say India is growing faster than any major economy, you actually means a few capitalist class, a few wealth accumulators and not the 1.35 billion plus population of India, they are growing faster than any one.



World grown only because of capitalism from car, to software,to mobiles, to jet engines and not some babus contribution.You are talking as if there is no billionaires in China or there is no poor in US !


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> By the way Ambainis,



Mukesh Ambani has built a 1 billion USD home(called Antilia) in Mumbia(now the worth must be more), a classic case of pompous and extravagant living in a poor country, India ranks 131th in the world in per capita income, has he paying his taxes rightly than why/how this filthy extravagant expenditure. Indian masses seems to like and adore this kind of bragging and pompous living like here you are praising him and others.

A case of teeming millions and few rich people, this is India.


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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> Mukesh Ambani has built a 1 billion USD home(calle Antilia) in Mumbia(now the worth must be more), a classic case of pompous and extravagant living in a poor country, India ranks 131th in the world in per capita income, has he paying his taxes rightly than why/how this filthy extravagant expenditure. Indian masses seems to like and adore this kind of bragging and pompous living like here you are praising him and others.
> 
> A case of teeming millions and few rich people, this is India.



When mukesh ambani build his home, it will be constructed by some labours,The item will be sold by shop keepers and if he import items he will pay tax,these labours will get job because of the construction,shop keeper increase in income and so to support his family,the driver transport his goods also benefit,the seller selling his cement,steel etc also benefit,the labour working for cement,steel production also benefit.There is a chain of event of distribution of his wealth....Its like one is building a home which also directly or indirectly benefit others..


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> World grown only because of capitalism from car, to software,to mobiles, to jet engines and not some babus contribution.You are talking as if there is no billionaires in China or there is no poor in US !




US capitalism is not unbridled like we have in India, and US is not the ideal benchmark. Even then the poor in US is less than 45 million, by US standards, by Indian/Pak standards they are rich or middle class.

Ideal countries to look for benchmark is Scotland, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Canada and Switzerland and some EU countries, with their welfare like system, high taxes for the rich, all direct taxation, like rich paying for the poor, in south Asia poor are paying for the rich elitist class, which is the main reason for unequal distribution of wealth.

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## Mr.Nair

Pluralist said:


> US capitalism is not unbridled like we have in India, and US is not the ideal benchmark. Even then the poor in US is less than 45 million, by US standards, by Indian/Pak standards they are rich or middle class.
> 
> Ideal countries to look for benchmark is Scotland, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Canada and Switzerland and some EU countries, with their welfare like system, high taxes for the rich, all direct taxation, like rick paying for the poor, in south Asia poor are paying for the rich elitist class, which is the main reason for unequal distribution of wealth.



Nothing is perfect neither capitalism nor socialism.India is a mixture of both....All the above country have small population vs 1.25 billion indian people, so to implement welfare scheme easily.In india middle or upper middle class people not sleeping in street vs US poor people, if we take into account of similarity between both !

Any way bye for now


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## N.Siddiqui

Mr.Nair said:


> When mukesh ambani build his home, it will be constructed by some labours,The item will be sold by shop keepers and if he import items he will pay tax,these labours will get job because of the construction,shop keeper increase in income and so to support his family,the driver transport his goods also benefit,the seller selling his cement,steel etc also benefit,the labour working for cement,steel production also benefit.There is a chain of event of distribution of his wealth....Its like one is building a home which also directly or indirectly benefit others..




As you have shown here and I had such inkling and thought, Indians themselves like this Ambani and Adani style living and pompous and extravagant living for a rich few, like you are justifying the billion USD expense on his palace...this inequality is well entrenched in India and it will remain like this in the coming days.


In any western country this is not possible, check Bill Gates the richest man, now he is 2nd and how much he is giving in charities and research in US universities. Mukesh Ambani is not known for his charity and helping the teeming masses.

Wipro Azim premjee is doing a much stellar work and giving a lot in charities...why.

BTW Pakistan ranks 4rth in the word in per capita charity donation, Zakat is one reason. Hundreds of charity run hospitals, schools, food distribution in all major towns and cities. The reason you see less multi dimensional poverty in Pakistan than in India. This is a universal fact....

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## Mr.Cringeworth

Awan68 said:


> where is this man?


Lahore


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## BATMAN

Mr.Nair said:


> *One major Indian city holds more 5 star hotels than all pakistani cities combined.
> 
> One major Indian city holds passenger traffic at airports, than all pakistani airports combined.
> 
> Some Indian Tier2 cities have more infrastructure advantage against largest city of pakistan
> like good hospitals,educational institutions,transportation etc...
> 
> One Indian city exports more than all pakistan exports figures combined*
> 
> Honestly speaking pakistan must stop comparing to India(Don't take as an insult).



One Pakistani city have more toilets than combined India.

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## Safriz

Horus said:


> Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.


revenue goes back to from where it is generated. Lahore also produces half of Punjab;s total revenue/

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## Awan68

Cringe said:


> Lahore


which road?



James-bond said:


> U little Jihadis will never get over 5000 yrs Hindus rule over Indian subcontinent will u, the inferiority complex is sickening, historically converted people have little to treasure except desert, now f***k off former subject or slave might i say of my great ancestors who created superpowers for mileniums while u little ugly dumplings were pimping women to invaders n cleaning ur backsides with leaves, heck the western renaisance or age of enlightment was even fathered by a Hindu philosopher, now cool off with camel urine, history/Arabs doesn't like u Converted Muslims..


lol, how patheic are u, really??? i seriously feel sorry for u, i knw ur just a little hindu monkey but some count u to be among the hamio sapiens atleast so grow a brain n atleast come up with a new answer rather than editing mine, p.s editing my answer doesnt change historical facts....i seriously feel sorry u man, ur wounds are too deep which my anscestors inflicted n by the way my anscestory is traced directly back to the Prophet(pbuh's) family hence im more Arab than any tresspaser saudi shit sitting in riyad and as of now i would choose Pakistan over saudi Arabia even if someone gifted me that kingdom, my fair Pakistan, its beautiful brave people, the last impreginable fort of Islam, the choosen nation of this age just like the Arabs n the Turks in their times, we Pakistani's have greatness in our froot prints n all u patheic little shit hindus can do is burn over us bieng a Martial race while u n ur ugly mugs prove darwins theory to the core......the only time in history u became a unified nation is post 1947, u hindus hence have only the history as a free nation of just 70-75 yrs max while we are 1400 yrs old n still own half the world, now f***k off cause im a little bit racist n it erks me to talk too much with a dog from an ugly n inferior weak race, go jerk of to raja dahir bieng rammed by bin qasim or ghaznavi razing to the ground ur ugly somnath temple....u r nothing but a sad little conquered people trying so hard to find a little bit of dignity among the giants of history among whom we muslims whether we be Arabs, turks or Pakistani's stand tall..

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## Mr.Cringeworth

Awan68 said:


> which road?


somewhere in defense.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Congratulation to people living in Lahore however the standards need to go up higher in all cities of Pakistan

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## STRANGER BIRD

*Greater Iqbal Park Lahore Pakistan.*
*
















*

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## Gibbs

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> You probably went to the wrong side of Karachi.
> 
> Most people mistaken the outskirt immigrant slum towns which fall under the division of Karachi, as 'Karachi' in it's whole.
> 
> The main part is pretty nice and modern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, if you think that Pakistan was way ahead of infrastructure, you should have visited Lahore then. Much of it's road infrastructure cannot even be matched here in the states.



Every developing country in the world has small parts of it's cities on par with the developed world, Even in places like Calcutta or Madras, Or Sub Saharan Africa, I was pointing out in general Karachi is a very chaotic and a messy place, And a place where you dont really feel very safe about, There was always tension in the air as far as i was concerned, Something i never felt in Islamabad

Btw Clifton is just one suburb of Karachi, So you cant describe Karachi as a whole look like Clifton


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## Danish saleem

Mr.Nair said:


> You are not much aware about Bangalore,Delhi,Navi Mumbai and many other places considered world class cities and not regional cities.You can check any major flight magazines,international tourism guidelines etc all over the world mentioning Mumbai,Delhi etc as major international tourism hot spot.Lahore will be greener according to pakistani standard and not Indian or International standard.
> 
> A city becomes world class based on over all aspect including hospitals,educational institutions,MNC's,Top bank presence,iconic buildings,budget,foreign tourists flows,airports,transportation facilities like metros,Budget etc and not based only on population.



and u saying Mumbai is beautiful city???? did u visited Mumbai ?do u know what perception people will bring when they came from Mumbai??


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## Mr.Nair

Danish saleem said:


> and u saying Mumbai is beautiful city???? did u visited Mumbai ?do u know what perception people will bring when they came from Mumbai??



They come from Mumbai with impression

1. Bollywood
2. Financial capital
3. Metro and Monorail
4. Vibrant city 
5. City of skyscrapers 
6. City never sleeps
7. Most of Indian MNC's base
8. City where lot of pakistani's and others coming for treatment
9. It is a city with one of the most number of billionaires
10. Home to most expensive house in the world
11. One of the most beautiful international airport terminal in the world
12. City having both metro and monorail in India

If you want to visit a nice posh bungalow and look only on toilet and telling others 'that bungalow have a toilet where every one are using', them its up to u.Same like if u want to look only on negative aspects like slums etc then you can define that way.
















@Imad.Khan @Iqbal Ali @Mugwop @django @Spring Onion @Hell hound @RAMPAGE @ghazi52 @Basel @niaz @Syed.Ali.Haider @Kabira @Jaanbaz @Well.wisher @SecularNationalist 

I don't want to deviate thread topic and so no response here after


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## Danish saleem

Mr.Nair said:


> They come from Mumbai with impression
> 
> 1. Bollywood
> 2. Financial capital
> 3. Metro and Monorail
> 4. Vibrant city
> 5. City of skyscrapers
> 6. City never sleeps
> 7. Most of Indian MNC's base
> 8. City where lot of pakistani's and others coming for treatment
> 9. It is a city with one of the most number of billionaires
> 10. Home to most expensive house in the world
> 11. One of the most beautiful international airport terminal in the world
> 12. City having both metro and monorail in India
> 
> If you want to visit a nice posh bungalow and look only on toilet and telling others 'that bungalow have a toilet where every one are using', them its up to u.Same like if u want to look only on negative aspects like slums etc then you can define that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imad.Khan @Iqbal Ali @Mugwop @django @Spring Onion @Hell hound @RAMPAGE @ghazi52 @Basel @niaz @Syed.Ali.Haider @Kabira @Jaanbaz @Well.wisher @SecularNationalist
> 
> I don't want to deviate thread topic and so no response here after



brother,

you just showed only brighter Part!
My few friends just visited their and saying that Mumbai full of heads! too much population, and pollution.
I appreciate you for showing me brighter side as well, but my friend, when someone visited any city, he bring perception with him, and i said about the perception, i also love visit Mumbai, and i will soon.

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## Rizwan Alam

https://airvisual.com/world


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## STRANGER BIRD

*EiffelTower replica (Height 80m) situated at BahriaTown Lahore *
*






















*

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## STRANGER BIRD

*Botanical Garden Lahore ... A must visit place.*



















*Istanbul Chowk - Lahore*

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## BATMAN

Mr.Nair said:


> They come from Mumbai with impression
> 
> 1. Bollywood
> 2. Financial capital
> 3. Metro and Monorail
> 4. Vibrant city
> 5. City of skyscrapers
> 6. City never sleeps
> 7. Most of Indian MNC's base
> 8. City where lot of pakistani's and others coming for treatment
> 9. It is a city with one of the most number of billionaires
> 10. Home to most expensive house in the world
> 11. One of the most beautiful international airport terminal in the world
> 12. City having both metro and monorail in India
> 
> If you want to visit a nice posh bungalow and look only on toilet and telling others 'that bungalow have a toilet where every one are using', them its up to u.Same like if u want to look only on negative aspects like slums etc then you can define that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imad.Khan @Iqbal Ali @Mugwop @django @Spring Onion @Hell hound @RAMPAGE @ghazi52 @Basel @niaz @Syed.Ali.Haider @Kabira @Jaanbaz @Well.wisher @SecularNationalist
> 
> I don't want to deviate thread topic and so no response here after



As usual.... indian hijack.


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## airmarshal

Horus said:


> Given that Lahoris are eating up ~45% budget of Punjab it is no surprise. Who cares if the rest of Punjab looks like a flooded gutter.




Absolutely true. Step outside Lahore to see what a mess Punjab is. This is coming from a party which has been in provincial govt 6th time.

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## STRANGER BIRD

*Choubacha Underpass / Beijing Underpass Lahore now open for Traffic *

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## airmarshal

Jinn Baba said:


> Good for Lahore.
> 
> It's not the fault of Lahoris that our leaders in Karachi/Sindh or any other province are useless.
> 
> At least NS/SS did something for their city. What did Gillani do for Multan or Chawdhrys for Gujrat or Zardari for Karachi or sindh!?



Actually MQM and Altaf Hussain politics has destroyed Karachi.

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## AZ1

Come to karachi to see the worse there not a single road left where after 2 mint srice there is a hole. Dirty and there is no blackish damar left on the roads


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## Clutch



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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Nice copy  should have match the height 100%






Quite lovely wondeful sights










Lovely images , this spirt has to be replicate in all cities of Pakistan must visit this city of Lahore

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## Thanatos

Mr.Nair said:


> Even the proportion of population with figures, there is no match....
> 
> Bangalore population is almost 10 million vs 200 million pakistan population.You can compare export figure
> 
> Gujarat population is almost 65 million vs 200 million pakistan population.You can compare electricity production.
> By the way Gujarat is not the largest electricity producer in India, so to know the scale of difference.
> 
> India is having many major airports where pakistan having few, still almost 55 million passengers travel every year vs 16 million passengers of all pakistan airports combined.
> 
> and the list going....



What are you comparing? Apples & oranges. Why dont you compare Bihar ( 100 milllion population) or UP or asam with Pakistan? Just cherry picked , Self serving , selective distortion of facts figures is what india is all about. 

But if it makes you happy, keep it up. Staying in denial all the time.

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## N.Siddiqui

Gaddafi sports complex















In Gulberg





























Botanical gardens












































Liberty

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## N.Siddiqui

Univ. of Lahore

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## N.Siddiqui

Model Town park





Walled city restoration and revival.

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## N.Siddiqui

Lahore walled city restoration and revival.






















*LAHORE | Sustainable Development of Walled City | Dilkash Lahore*
*








*
Shahi Hammam
*



*












*A monument-al task*







Masjid Wazir Khan is a jewel of Mughal architecture. It has retained its grandeur even after the passage of around four centuries since it was built between 1635 and 1640AD under the orders of Hakim Ilm ud Din, the then prime minister of King Shah Jahan. Over time, the magnificent structure has weathered many storms and seen its surrounding land, the forecourt in front of the eastern façade as well as the lower parts of its boundary walls devoured by encroachments.

Till recently, the situation was so bad that the constructions around the mosque became an eyesore, making it look like a structure totally out of place. The sight of the surrounding residential buildings and shops, motor workshops, and welding facilities right next to its boundary walls, was so overwhelming that the mosque would appear subdued in comparison.


























The walled city project is a public private partnership between punjab govt. and aga khan trust for culture (AKTC). AKTC has done numerous such projects all over the world. much of the credit goes to AKTC. punjab govt got the funds from world bank but the expertise and quality of work was provided by AKTC. 

http://www.akdn.org/press-release/la...een-government

*Ten-fold increase in foreign tourists for Lahore Walled City*





LAHORE: *At least 51,647 tourists, including 2,350 foreigners, visited the Royal Trail inside Delhi Gate and other parts of the Lahore Walled City during 2015.*

“A marked increase of nine to ten-fold of foreign tourists to the city has been recorded during the last four to five years,” said Shahid Nadeem, the Director Administration of the Walled City of Lahore Authority (WCLA).

The tourists visited there by foot and Rangeela Rickshaw and also availed themselves of the Tonga Service, according to a spokesperson of the WCLA.

The package-I for the restoration of several buildings and streets from Delhi gate to Purani Kotwali Chowk was completed in which the façade and infrastructure improvements of the Royal Trail were done.

*“Almost 850 properties and 57 streets have been rehabilitated besides laying of the underground sewerage and electricity systems.

The work on package-2, from Chowk Kotwali to Masti Gate, was also started in 2015. Similar improvements will be made in the package-2 as was done in package-1*. The total cost of package-2 is estimated at Rs720 million,” the spokesperson said in a statement.

The 17th century Royal Bath was also discovered, conserved and inaugurated in the same year. Since its opening, around 20,000 of the total 51,647 tourists visited there by year-end.

The Royal Norwegian Embassy funded Rs40.5 million for the conservation of the Royal Bath. The PC-1 for Masjid Wazir Khan was also prepared and sent to the government for approval.

The total cost of the PC-1 has been estimated at Rs50.33 million. The north wall of the Masjid Wazir Khan was conserved with the funding of Royal Norwegian Embassy in 2015 while the conservation of Chowk Wazir Khan has begun with the US Ambassador’s fund.

The conservation and documentation of the picture wall of the Lahore Fort was also started in 2015 with the funds provided by the Royal Norwegian Embassy and Aga Khan Trust for Culture.

The PC-1 for the Lahore Fort amounting to Rs840 million was prepared and sent to the government for further action and approval.

The WCLA has started the Rangeela Rickshaw and Tonga service for the promotion of tourism. Three photo walks, Jashn-i-Shahi Guzargah, Wekh Lahore and heritage festivals were also held in 2015.

Published in Dawn, January 2nd, 2016

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## N.Siddiqui

Newly opened Nishat boutique hotel, adjacent to Emporium Mall, 2nd Nishat 5 star hotel in Lahore.

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## ghazi52

Kalma Chowk Interchange








Liberty


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## AsianLion

*Lahore — a city of gardens, now a city of concrete*
SYED MUHAMMAD ABUBAKARUPDATED MAR 03, 2016 12:12PM
LAHORE: Environmentalist and author Z B Mirza remembers a very different Lahore. Growing up in the 1960s, when he lived in Lahore’s Model Town, he recalls wider and emptier streets; there were more trees and less high-rises. Water didn’t come in plastic gallons, but was extracted through hand pumps. It was a simple process, since the water was only 35ft under the ground. Today, it is below 200ft.

When he steps out, Mirza no longer sees the familiar streets of his childhood: instead of lush green trees lining the canal, the city’s forest cover is being cut down to make space for cars and roads. The Mughal and Sikh gardens he used to visit as a child have been destroyed.

There are hardly any ring-necked parakeets wandering about the city, and fruit trees like mulberry, guava and mango are decreasing. Instead, Lahore has transformed into concrete jungle: development projects do not factor in environmental concerns, and bridges, flyovers, brand new housing schemes are sprouting up everywhere.

“Lahore is going through a severe environmental crisis,” says Hammad Naqi Khan, the director-general of the World Wide Fund for Nature Pakistan (WWF-Pakistan). An overpopulated, urban city like Lahore cannot survive rapid and unsustainable development, which exerts enormous pressure on existing natural resources, leading to water problems, pollution, and changes in the city’s temperatures, he says.

Also read: _Sink or swim— Who will save Pakistan’s drowning farmers?_





Development projects are usually implemented without factoring environment concerns. —Photo by the author
*Unsustainable development*
While the city has seen a surge in development projects, they are usually implemented without factoring environment concerns. One such example is the Thokar Niaz Baig flyover, which was built to ease traffic congestion. According to Rafay Alam, an environmental lawyer, surveys have shown the road is not being used to its full capacity.

The Jail Road underpass is a similar case. During a public hearing, a consulting engineer of the Lahore Development Authority (LDA) confessed that the underpass was ill-planned and should be dismantled; a new underpass based on rules and regulations should be rebuilt. He suggested the project’s chief engineer be penalised for allowing construction on an incorrect course and wasting millions of rupees spent by the government.

With Lahore’s population increasing by the day, housing schemes have become a necessity. But these grand construction plans reduce the amount of land that could potentially be used for planting trees. Since there is no law which stops conversion of prime agricultural lands for housing or commercial purposes, the loophole is widely exploited by land developers. One must not ignore the fact that when unplanned housing schemes are constructed, the cost of building roads and other infrastructure is once again dumped on the government’s shoulders.

Medical practitioners have also testified that an increase in the number of concrete structures leads to an increase in temperature, causing sun strokes among pedestrians and motorcyclists during the summer.

Dr. Farzana Anees is a senior medical officer at Gulab Devi Chest Hospital. “We have noted many cases of sun stroke and dehydration in June and July, because of less shade in the city,” she says. Temperature rise is not something people associate with concrete footpaths, but like other development measures, environmental degradation directly affects human health.

There is an immediate need to develop tier two cities to reduce migration to the provincial capital, and to shift our focus from constructing housing schemes to developing green zones.

*Green havens during heatwaves*
Lahore has only three per cent of green area, which is continuously being paved to make room for roads and buildings. “Our government gives the lowest priority to urban green spaces,” complains Lt. Col. (R) Ejaz Nazim, a senior landscape designer and an environmental activist.The world standard requires a minimum of 25 to 30 per cent of green open space in urban areas—cities like Berlin boast upto 45 per of urban forest cover.

Unpaved green belts also fall under green areas across the city and have great environmental importance. They help in storm water drainage and act as recharge zones for groundwater replenishment. Today, when most green belts have been turned into concrete, groundwater recharge is affected and is witnessing a sharp decline. This may hold little importance for city dwellers travelling in air-conditioned cars, but for less privileged members of society like pedestrians, vendors and cyclists, it is a matter of great concern.

Some delicate trees are planted to monitor levels of air pollution in urban areas, while others help mitigate the negative impacts of air pollution. It is important, therefore, for trees to be planted with awareness of their purpose and function (or lack of).





The 1,500 deaths caused by an unanticipated heat wave in Karachi could have been prevented by the presence of more parks, green belts and urban forest cover in the city. Greenery and trees help to absorb much of the heat, and establishment of green zones can improve a city’s micro-climate, lowering its average temperatures. —Photo by the author
The ignorance of the connection between climate change and urbanisation has already resulted in damage. In Karachi for example, the 1,500 deaths caused by an unanticipated heat wave could have been prevented by the presence of more parks, green belts and urban forest cover in the city.

Greenery and trees help to absorb much of the heat, and establishment of green zones can improve a city’s micro-climate, lowering its average temperatures.

*The destruction of gardens*
The garden of Mirza Kamran, built by the Mughal of the same name, was once a fantastic sight next to River Ravi in Lahore. Today the garden lies in ruins. If the Mughals were alive, they would be disappointed by the renovations and encroachments that have destroyed their majestic legacies.

The Shalimar Gardens located northeast of the city are also severely affected by development projects. A flyover being built right above the gardens threatens to encroach upon its space, and poses dangers to the centuries’ old gardens.

Then there are the lesser-known gardens left behind by the Mughals and the Sikhs: the Garden of Mahabat Khan, Naulakha Garden, Bagh-e-Dara, Anguri Bagh, Gulabi Bagh, Badami Bagh, Gardens of Raja Teja Singh in Chah Miran, Garden of Raja Dina Nath on Shalimar Road, Garden of Bhai Maha Singh near Shah Alam Gate; all of these have been lost because of unsustainable development. The blame lies squarely upon the government.

During the British era, gardens like the Lahore Zoological Gardens, Anarkali Garden, Manto Park (Iqbal Park) were added to the city. These sites too, are undergoing constant alteration, and are under threat.

*Environmental degradation at the Canal*
The Lahore Canal road, which stretches over an area of 1,000 acres, is a hotspot for traffic jams. The government’s friendly attitude towards the automobile industry (i.e. less taxation) has led to a surge in vehicles, especially in Lahore and Karachi. In the absence of an efficient public transport network, this has resulted in a population to vehicle ratio that is going out of control. To make matters worse, Lahore’s air pollution levels are already disastrously high, since automobiles lead to an increase in hazardous elements in the atmosphere.

Naseem ur Rehman, the director of the EPD, testifies that air pollution is caused by traffic congestion, which increases particulate matter in air beyond the limits prescribed by WHO. “We need to control the number of automobiles on our roads,” Rehman recommends.

In 2012, a JICA transport study conducted for the government of Punjab over three years found that there were 350,000 automobiles and 850,000 motorcycles in Lahore. It found that 40% of Lahore’s population walks to work; 20% uses motorcycles, 22% uses public transport and 8% uses cars.

The following year, the Canal was declared a protected area under Section 3 of the Lahore Canal Heritage Park Act. The Act banned all construction, clearing, removal, and damage of trees along the canal’s length, but repeated violations of the Act have resulted in extreme environmental degradation.

In a supposedly ingenious move to solve the traffic congestion problem, the government decided to widen the roads along the canal, and cut down the trees. National Engineering Services Pakistan (Pvt) Limited (NESPAK) did not recommend going ahead with this plan, since road-widening is a temporary solution; it may ease up traffic along the Canal briefly, but with the increase in vehicles and poor traffic regulations, a more sustainable plan is required.





Section 3 of the Lahore Canal Heritage Park Act bans all construction, clearing, removal, and damage of trees along the Canal’s length, but repeated violations of the Act have resulted in extreme environmental degradation. —Photo by the author
*Cutting trees, planting trees*
“Lahore was once known for its lush green gardens,” says Ijaz, a concerned citizen. “But is now known for its maze of underpasses and overpasses.” Ijaz feels the surge in developmental projects, especially road widening, has taken a toll on the city’s tree cover. The reduction of tree cover around the Canal, specifically, has removed the habitat for many species, including feral cats, small Indian mongoose, Indian monitor lizards, butterflies, fireflies, grey hornbills, yellow-footed green pigeons, white breasted kingfishers and purple sunbirds.

Chopping down trees to widen roads affects both Lahore’s scenic beauty, and the city’s carbon sink, which is a natural or artificial reservoir that helps in removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

But instead of planting more trees to replace the old ones, what little is left of the green belts is being converted into a display of exotic plant species that have less foliage, host no biodiversity, and have little or no shade. On top of it all, they require more attention in pruning and watering, which adds to the burden of the provincial budget. According to a 2007 report by World Bank, unsustainable development and the cutting down of trees is costing Pakistan Rs1 billion rupees every day.

“This was back in 2007,” Nazim observes. “We should think about how much environmental degradation is costing us now.” Nazim, who is also the president of Shajardost Tehreek (Friends of the Trees), does not believe in opposing development plans, but he feels they must be “balanced, sustainable and equitable.”

*An exotic, futile hobby*
The government’s new hobby to plant exotic species rather than indigenous ones has proved counter-productive for the ecosystem. Exotic plants have little ecological importance for Pakistan since they are alien to the country's climate; unfamiliar species create complications and some prove to be invasive in nature because of their high survival and germination rates. Meanwhile, indigenous species of plants help the ecosystem since they host biodiversity.

“In order to mitigate urban forest cover loss, the government should plant indigenous species of plants,” Z B Mirza recommends. Jaman (black plum), mango, lasura (gum berry), papal and safeeda (eucalyptus) are excellent options, because unlike exotic species, these plants are certain to thrive.

In order to justify their unsustainable development methods, the government has traditionally argued that three times as many trees will be planted to balance out the losses. What the government fails to realise however, is that small exotic plants do not have significant ecological value when compared to large native trees.

Saplings emit less oxygen, have a low survival rate and cannot provide habitat to any species of birds for roosting and nesting. Most importantly, this results in a declining of Lahore’s water table.“Paving green, soft, permeable soil prevents natural recharging of our underground aquifers,” Nazim explains.

*Drinking arsenic*
Lahore’s groundwater is replenished by River Ravi and rainwater, but the river is already polluted by industrial and municipal waste that contaminates the underground water table. In a report, WWF-Pakistan highlights Lahore’s poor management of Lahore’s water resources. Lahoris, it recommends, should make their water consumption patterns more sustainable, and promote rainwater harvesting—a technique used by several countries to conserve rainwater and its benefits, but one that is unknown in Pakistan.

Rainwater could help raise city’s water table, but most of it goes to waste. Normally, it seeps through vegetation and unpaved areas, recharging the aquifer. But reducing green zones to increase concrete structures means that there are more drains than vegetation, and the rainwater flows into them.

Water samples taken from Jamiya Mosque Haloki, Anwar-e-Madina reveal that water contains twice the minimum arsenic level recommended by the WHO. Government authorities are responsible for the water supplied to these mosques, which is apparently also infused with human waste. This means that safe drinking water – which is a basic human right – is not available to all of Lahore’s population. Medical experts discourage using tap water for drinking purposes since it contains harmful pollutants like lead.

In response to the water crisis, WWF-Pakistan has teamed up with Coca-Cola to install 15 water filtration plants in low-lying areas of the city which lack access to the basic right of clean water supply.

*Growing horizontally, not vertically*
“Pakistan needs to rethink how it develops its cities,” says Ali Tauqeer Sheikh, the CEO of Leadership for Environment and Development (LEAD) Pakistan and director of Asia, Climate and Development Knowledge Network (CDKN). He feels the problem lies with development taking place “horizontally” rather than “vertically” – which increases the country’s carbon emissions, leads to a loss of fertile land and increases commuting time and cost.

“Cities grow vertically to respond to such challenges,” Sheikh explains. “Lahore is not entering the 21st century [properly]… it is turning into an overgrown village.”





Instead of growing vertically as cities should, Lahore is growing horizontally. —Photo by the author
Sheikh says the growth of industries has led to the construction of sprawling industrial zones in sites which could have been growing basmati rice. “We are compromising our food security by vowing for unsustainable development,” he adds.

Lawyer Ahmed Rafay Alam has some viable solutions. In the absence of sufficient urban forest cover, Alam says the government is destroying the city’s natural environment by building on green zones. “Building new roads might not help reduce traffic, but reducing cars can be the right move,” he suggests. “Meanwhile, we have to stop horizontal expansion.”

For Alam, sustainable development is “low rise, mid-density, mixed-use” and has less harmful impact on the environment. Pakistan, for example, could pick up a few lessons in city-planning from Latin America, where countries have paid the price of unplanned urbanisation.

In the 1960s and 1970s, rural populations rapidly demanded more and more service land, and the planning and development sectors could not deliver. Informal land dealers and developers found an opportunity to expand and grow in the absence of a framework. Cities then grew unplanned, creating issues like traffic congestion, inequality and loss of productivity. It was later proved that the cost of improvement programmes in unplanned urban areas is between three to five times more than the cost of urbanising unoccupied land.

*An integrated approach*
Our government has become savage and reckless when it comes to protecting the environment. With every tree that falls, every new car emitting carbon into the atmosphere, and every species losing the battle to maintain diversity, our ecosystem is getting weaker. If we are harmed by heat waves, smog, declining water levels and urban flooding, then we are also responsible for it.

We must decide whether we want to protect the environment and lead a healthy lifestyle, which includes healthy food, clean drinking water and refreshing air; or if we want to continue harming it. Cities and urban spaces are centers of development challenges—they might create new opportunities, but experts say the battle against economic collapse, climate change, poverty and health will either be won or lost in cities.

Syed Muhammad Abubakar is an environmental writer with an interest in climate change, deforestation, food security and sustainable development. He tweets @SyedMAbubakar

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## Fledgingwings

Zee-shaun said:


> Bahria Town is always clean and green, no matter which city.
> Please post some pics of Mughal Pura, Anarkali, Shadbagh, Ravibagh and other parts of old city to judge how clean Lahore is.


Right ! the common population of lahore.not housing socities for the elite.

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## BATMAN

Lahore is perfect example of ill planned city.
Politicians and their hired staff at LDA, certainly have no clue of city planning, or any solution for its congestion. All what they are good at is... wasting resources.

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## airmarshal

Thats only few streets and few roads.

Lahore is among the most polluted, filthy city. Dont fall for this Nooni Toon propaganda. They have this to show after 6 governments in Punjab.

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