# Top Ten Muslim Militaries



## Hawk

Ok guys, as ahsan told me to open a new thread if I wanted to and I wanted so I opened a new thread. So post now, only the muslim militaries&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


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## EagleEyes

Thanks Hawk,

Well i would not just like to post the list but i would also like to go over each country i will post.

1) Turkey: This rank is simply based on the conventional warfare weapons, and military equipments, not just that they also have good economy, and the only Muslim country which can produce advance fighters at its home. The Turkey has full support from U.S and is one of the allies, not just that it is also included in North Atlantic Treaty Organization, which is its biggest achievements. The country has rivalry with Greece, which once was a super power. Due to competition between both countries Turkey keeps itself updated, and its economy allows it to.

2) Pakistan: Only muslim nation armed with nuclear warheads, capability of firing nuclear weapons upto 2500KM. It is one of the leading major ally of United States. The future looks bright, the armed forces are weak in some of the areas like in navy and air force, but future requirements have been made to settle this issue. Same like Turkey, Pakistan has rivaly with India almost 4 times a bigger nation than Pakistan itself. Pakistan has 7th largest army in the world, in the recent change Pakistan has dropped its military numbers a little bit, but it will not effect its army power. Pakistan trains most of the arabs countries, thus it speaks it self to be on the 2nd in the list.

3) Iran: The nation is troubled by Foriegn countries due to Isreali problems but that led the nation to develop things indeginiously although its technological level is not upto date as it needs to be, but still a good effort. The country is capable of making indeginious submarines, aircrafts, frigates, as well as missiles. There is a rumour that Iran might as well take the position of being the nuclear armed country, but other countries are giving it some problems.

4) UAE: Although country doesn&#39;t have the quantative army, because the country is mostly a peacful industrialized country, rich with oil, and its economy. The country has a very good modern airforce, which is supported by Pakistan Air force. UAE has enough money to get high quality american goodies if it wants to, but since it doesn&#39;t really have any enemy it keeps itself away from it.

7) Egypt: I dont have enough information regarding this country, but the country is very similar to Pakistan&#39;s position. It is supported by United States and is going on the moderate level thus its future looks bright just like Pakistan&#39;s, the nation have ordered many new weapons such as harpoons, tanks, missiles, etc from U.S to make future adjustments.

6) Saudi Arabia: The country is rich by its oil, most of the big countries are depended on it. The country is supported by U.S for its security, though they country&#39;s armed forces are not that strong, it has proved during Iraqi attack on Saudia which led Saudis to ask help of United States.

That all i can give you guys. Thats again only my opinion, if you see any mistakes please point out.

Regards,
Ahsan F

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## Pyongyang

1) Pakistan- Well their the only Muslim country that it known to have nuclear weapons. Very mobile infantry with over 1500 APCs and more coming in. And the armor&#33; Wow&#33; The Al-Khalid, Al-Zarrar, and T-80UD, the Type-85 is going to be thw rost tank in the inventory by 2010. Turkey lacks the kind of armor Pakistan has. But Pakistan has a lack of artillery, not many MRLs, but hopefully new Paladins will be coming in. The Air Force is trained very well, probably the best pilots in the world. But the fighters they have currently are aging and new fighters need to coem in fast. Hopefully the F-16s will be coming in before 2010, and the JF-17 is a nice plane. The Navy is OK, not the best, not the worst, but average. 9 Frigates most of them of old design, but have been upgraded recently so they are still effective. Plus the Agosta 90Bs and 70s are very advanced and can wreak havoc&#33;

2) Turkey- The Opolot will be inducted soon, which is probably the second best tank they have produced behind the T-84(Which is in the Pakistani inventory). Also, artillery system from South Korea are coming soon&#33; South Korea produces really good artillery pieces. They have base for mobile infantry, M-113s, the basics. The Air Force is going through a major upgrade. F-16s, F-5s and F-4s are currently being upgraded and the F-35 will be in service after 2010. The Navy is very effective&#33; 16 Frigates, mainly Oliver Perry Class, and 6 Type-209s&#33;

3) Egypt- I think the 1973 Arab-Israeli War showed that Egypt could be an effective fighting force, but they went out of the range of the curtain and got their @&#036;&#036;es beat. Now they have the M-1A1 which is produced locally. And the M-113 which are in big numbers. The only problem I see is that they don&#39;t have too many indigenous designs. The Air Force is highly advanced, they have over 200 F-16s&#33; And some Mirages to go with that number along with upgraded MiG-21s&#33; The Navy, well it&#39;s not too great, but who cares, like they need a big one&#33;

4) Iran- They supposedly have nuclear weapons. But besides that they have a pretty good force. Their T-72s have been upgraded by the Russians and the new Zulfiqar MBT could pose a threat. But still older technology brings their rank back. The Air Force is not too much of an effective force now a days. Not many F-14s are in the air, maybe about 20, and the F-4s and F-5s aren&#39;t too effective. They have the older versions of MiG-29s and some Mirages. The Navy... well they don&#39;t needa a big one, so who cares?

5)The rest of them.

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## Hawk

> *The country has rivalry with Greece, which once was a super power*



Greece was once super power, when. I think you&#39;re mixing up. Itz the turks were superpower like Mughals, or persia, turks were called Ottomans and their state used to be called ottoman kingdom.

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## EagleEyes

> _Originally posted by Hawk_@Nov 17 2005, 03:27 PM
> *Greece was once super power, when. I think you&#39;re mixing up. Itz the turks were superpower like Mughals, or persia, turks were called Ottomans and their state used to be called ottoman kingdom.
> [post=3046]Quoted post[/post]​*



Both nations were powerful in their time. Once it was Greece before the Roman&#39;s time, remember the Trojan War? After many years than the Ottomon Emprie arose...

The fighting of Greece and Turkey is of long ago and it is still continues..


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## Owais

which one have more powerfull military now? turkey or greece?


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## VisionHawk

Hey turkey is a muslim country 

for now turkey and greece are fighting over cyprus half of it is controlled by greece and half by turkey it is just like kashmir


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## Sharjeel

> _Originally posted by Hawk_@Nov 17 2005, 08:27 PM
> *Greece was once super power, when. I think you&#39;re mixing up. Itz the turks were superpower like Mughals, or persia, turks were called Ottomans and their state used to be called ottoman kingdom.
> [post=3046]Quoted post[/post]​*


they killed some 250,000 allieds in WW1 in a few months.

the allies still remember the time with red puppies...yes thats what they are&#33;&#33;&#33;

that was the last major battle of the khalifatul usmania

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwone/bat...gallipoli.shtml

this story is missing out on some KEY facts. the gallipoli campeign was doomed from day one..there was no water, no food....the allies had NOTHING.....they gained mere inches per week and Ottomans put up a wall of bullets and blood to stop them and it worked.


but then after giving the allies a bloody nose. the house of Sauds betrayed the khalifat hence the Kalma by siding with the allies and causing confusion chaos and gorrilla warefare in the arab peninsula for this the house of Sauds was offered the Arab peninsula, this was their great greed...thus the Khalifatul Usmania (Ottoman Empire) fell by betrayel and greed.

the end result was the allies gave only half of the peninsula to the sauds and shared the other half...(Iraq was british syria french...etc etc etc... and devided the land into many small states.

http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Alley/5443/gall.htm
this one is a better read


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## VisionHawk

didnot turkey fought its last battle of ww1 at constantinople inorder to free it which they won>>?????????


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## Sharjeel

> _Originally posted by VisionHawk_@Nov 20 2005, 03:26 PM
> *didnot turkey fought its last battle of ww1 at constantinople inorder to free it which they won>>?????????
> [post=3269]Quoted post[/post]​*


Constantinople is now known as Istanbul.

it was conquered by Khalif Mehmet II in 1453.

in WWI the Allies wanted to get their ships with their big guns into the sea of marmara and park out side the ottoman capital istanbull. they wanted to threaten to shell the ottoman capital hence forcing the khalif to surender and allow the allies a safe passage to the black sea where they could supply their ally russia.

but in order to get into the sea of marmara the allies had to get through the dardanelle straight which was HEAVILY mined and also protected with rather large guns in forts on the gallipoli paninsula... the allies underestimated the ottomans preperation and made a run for it through the dardanelles but on the first day several british battle ships (i think 4) where sunk due to the mines in the dardanelle straight and the guns on the gallipoli peninsula...it was then established that the allies should take the gallipoli paninsula first and take out the gun guardeing the dardanelles thus allowing safe passage to the british navy. this operation failed miserably and caused 250,000 allies to die and 300,000 ottomans to die.
at the end of it churchill who was incharge of the navy in WWI managed to lay the blame on someone else but still had to retire from his post of naval commander never the less he remained in the war council and after a 2 decades in the second world war became the PM lol....

this is the allied war plan....
<div class='bbimg'></div>


btw did you know the same greek kingdom which claims to be the worlds oldest country only gained freedom from the ottoman empire in 1829??

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## VisionHawk

it was ww1 not ww2 turkey didnot take part in 2 right?


by the way guys turkey won at constantinople(istanbul) in ww1 and it is still part of theirs and because of which turkey also have the acess to europe


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## VisionHawk

Ok here are my ratings

1)Pakistan , Turkey
2)Egypt
3)Saudi arabia (they have got quite a lot of modern stuff though pak army and us army are performing the task of defending them in army fields)
4)Indonesia , Uae
5)Iran ,syria ( they can also be on the 3 or 4th rank)
6)Malaysia
7) jordan 
8)Morocco

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## Sharjeel

> _Originally posted by VisionHawk_@Nov 22 2005, 03:38 PM
> *it was ww1 not ww2 turkey didnot take part in 2 right?
> by the way guys turkey won at constantinople(istanbul)ÃÂ  in ww1 and it is still part of theirs and because of which turkeyÃÂ  also have theÃÂ  acess to europe
> [post=3455]Quoted post[/post]​*


constantinople is a dead name only used by christian fanatics who want to restore the byzantine empire 

the actual battle was at gallipoli and is regarded as the gallipoli victory. the allies never even got near the ottomans key port city.


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## sigatoka

1. Pakistan- because of nuclear weapons

2. Turkey - An airforce on par with Israel, ground forces better than Pakistan and the strongest Navy in the Muslim world. It&#39;s very close to Pakistan and would be ahead but for the Nukes.

3. Egypt- Due to the large economic aid that U.S. gives to egypt, it has been able to build an Airforce much better than Pakistan&#39;s and only second to Turkey in the muslim world. It has Ground forces which is equal to Pakistans due to large number of Abrahams and M-60&#39;s. Second best Navy in the Muslim World. 

4. Iran- Very large and capable Chemical weapons program and potential nuclear power. Very large and capable ground forces which is similar in capability to Pakistan and Egypt. Quickly improving navy with Russian submarines and missiles. Is behind Egypt becasue of inferior airforce but wont stay that way forever. Similar Airforce to Pakistan. 

5. Saudi Arabia - No aid from U.S. and purchases weapons at inflated price because of strategic alliance with U.S. After Sept. 11 that seems to be slowly changing. Better Airforce than Pakistan and Iran, behind Iran because worse Land forces than Egypt and Iran and Pakistan. Very capable Navy, better than Pakistan&#39;s and similar to Iran&#39;s. 

After Saudi Arabia, no significant miltiary power as of yet. But watch out for Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh.


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## Kaiser

Egypts and Turkeys army is no where near Pakistans. Egypt only has 400-500 M1 Abrams and 200 M-60s and a bunch of old tanks while Turkey only has old M-48,M-60. Compare this to Pakistan By 2006 Pakistan will have 600+ Al-Khalids, 600+ Al-Zarrars, 600 T-80-T84, and around 2000+ APC&#39;S. Egypts Navy is nowhere near the Second Best in the Muslim world Iran and Bangladesh have a better navy. You also left out Missiles, Pakistan has the Best Missiles in the muslim world no one comes half as near to Pakistans missile capabilies in the Muslim world.

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## Owais

> _Originally posted by Kaiser_@Dec 3 2005, 03:21 AM
> *Egypts and Turkeys army is no where near Pakistans. Egypt only has 400-500 M1 Abrams and 200 M-60s and a bunch of old tanks while Turkey only has old M-48,M-60. Compare this to Pakistan By 2006 Pakistan will have 600+ Al-Khalids, 600+ Al-Zarrars, 600 T-80-T84, and around 2000+ APC&#39;S. Egypts Navy is nowhere near the Second Best in the Muslim world Iran and Bangladesh have a better navy. You also left out Missiles, Pakistan has the Best Missiles in the muslim world no one comes half as near to Pakistans missile capabilies in the Muslim world.
> [post=4223]Quoted post[/post]​*


Turkeys army is no where??
what the are u trying to say??
here is some info about Turkish militry.


THE TURKISH LAND FORCES : 

LAND FORCES COMPOSITION IS

* 4 FIELD ARMIES

* 10 ARMY CORPS

* 2 MECH. INF. DIVISION

* 2 MECH. INF. DIV. HQs (TACTICAL)

* 1 INFANTRY DIVISIONS AND 1 TRAINING DIVISION

* 14 MECHANIZED INFANTRY BRIGADES

* 14 ARMORED BRIGADES

* 12 INFANTRY/REGIONAL SEC. BRIGADES

* 5 COMMANDO BRIGADES

* 5 TRAINING BRIGADES

THE TURKISH LAND FORCES IS ORGANIZED INTO FOUR FIELD ARMIES, LOGISTICS COMMAND AND TRAINING AND DOCTRINE COMMAND.

THE TURKISH NAVAL FORCES:

THE COMPOSITION OF THE NAVAL FORCES IS;

* 13 SUBMARINES

* 20 FRIGATES

* 21 FAST PATROL BOATS

* 21 MINE SWEEPERS / HUNTERS AND LAYERS

* 52 VARIOUS LANDING SHIPS / CRAFT

* 23 VARIOUS MARITIME PATROL AIRCRAFT / HELICOPTERS

* AMPHIBIOUS BRIGADE

SUBORDINATE COMMANDS OF THE TURKISH NAVAL FORCES COMMAND ARE THE FLEET COMMAND, THE NORTHERN SEA AREA COMMAND, THE SOUTHERN SEA AREA COMMAND AND THE NAVAL TRAINING AND EDUCATION COMMAND.

THE TURKISH AIR FORCES :

THE TURKISH AIR FORCES COMPONENTS ARE;

* 19 COMBAT SQUADRONS

* 2RECONNAISSANCESQUADRONS

* 5 TRAINING SQUADRONS

* 6 TRANSPORTATION SQUADRONS

* 1 TANKER SQUADRON

* 8 SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE (SAM) SQUADRONS

THESE UNITS ARE ORGANIZED INTO TWO TACTICAL AIR FORCES, TWO MAIN AIR LIFT BASES, TANKER BASE, AIR TRAINING AND AIR LOGISTICS COMMANDS. 

TURKISH ARMED FORCES CAPABILITIES

At a short notice, Turkish Army can deploy 40 (forty) or 50.000 (fifty thousand) men strength Army Corps to conduct joint operations. 

Turkish Army can conduct air assault operations with lift capability of 5 or 6 Battalions at a time day and night.

Turkish Armed Forces can conduct four separate Battalion Task Force Peace Support Operations anywhere in the wold.

Turkish Navy can participate in international operations and exercises beyond Mediterranean Sea. *Submarines can individually navigate up to 15.000 (fifteen thousand) nautical miles and return to home bases.*
After USA Air Forces, *Turkish Air Forces have the most number of F-16 aircraft in the world*. Turkish Air Forces can participate in exercises conducted overseas. With air refueling capability, Turkish aircraft can join live exercises in central Europe and return to home bases in Turkey, and fly directly from Turkey to USA crossing The Atlantic Ocean.

Turkish Armed Forces can perform Disaster Relief Operations as was in recent earthquakes in Marmara Region of Turkey.

Turkish Armed Forces can conduct peace support operations anywhere in the world with four separate Battalion Task Force.

Considering that Turkish Armed Forces might increasingly participate in peace support operations during the first quarter of the 21st Century, in order to increase contribution to global and regional peace and stability, the special importance to develop its current capabilities in this field is attributed.

http://www.tsk.mil.tr/eng/genel_konular/kuvvetyapisi.htm


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## nollvllad

1. Pakistan ... A nuclear power with a superb missile system.
2nd. Turkey ... due to the conventional weapons.
3rd. Iran.. due to its missile system and strong ground forces
4th. egypt... large military but not updated.. plus the lack missile system
5th. Saudi arabia...
6th. Syria.
7th. Bangladesh
8th. libya
9th. morocco
10th. Algeria

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## Omar1984

Pakistan is the only Muslim nation that is a nuclear power and has the strongest military in the Islamic world and we need that because Pakistan is in a rough neighborhood. We have a neighbor who hates our very existence and another neighbor who has to deal with wars for decades and invasions by superpowers.

Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and most of other Muslim countries are in a peaceful neighborhood and they dont need a strong military and nuclear weapons like Pakistan does.

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## SinoIndusFriendship

nollvllad said:


> 1. Pakistan ... A nuclear power with a superb missile system.
> 2nd. Turkey ... due to the conventional weapons.
> 3rd. Iran.. due to its missile system and strong ground forces
> 4th. egypt... large military but not updated.. plus the lack missile system
> 5th. Saudi arabia...
> 6th. Syria.
> 7th. Bangladesh
> 8th. libya
> 9th. morocco
> 10th. Algeria



I concur with most, but you forgot Indonesia -- with a population of around 237 million, they should be well ahead of Turkey!  Also, if you consider Malaysia 'muslim nation' then they should make top 10. Their economy and military is both strong. Add those 2 and remove Morocco and Syria from the list. Lybia is a very SMALL population, but still stronger than Syria and Morocco.


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## xebex

Hawk said:


> Greece was once super power, when. I think you're mixing up. Itz the turks were superpower like Mughals, or persia, turks were called Ottomans and their state used to be called ottoman kingdom.




Greek Empire


Turkish Empire( Ottoman Empire)






every major nation had its glorious time and some are comming back to its glory again.


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## ahf_nuke1

1) Pakistan (Nuclear Missile Technology)
2) Iran (Missile technology, self reliance in many weapons.. and potentially next Nuclear power too)
3) Turkey 
4) Saudi arabia
5) Egypt
6) UAE 
7) Kuwait 
8) Syria
9) Libya
10) Morroco


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## Musalman

I say Turkish Generals, Pakistani Iranian Turkish Arab Soldiers, Saudi Equipments and Pakistani Iranian and Turkish military industry, we can rule the world.


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## Musalman

Sorry forgot to mention Pakistani Bangladesh and Turkish airforce pilots

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## TopCat

ahf_nuke1 said:


> 1) Pakistan (Nuclear Missile Technology)
> 2) Iran (Missile technology, self reliance in many weapons.. and potentially next Nuclear power too)
> 3) Turkey
> 4) Saudi arabia
> 5) Egypt
> 6) UAE
> 7) Kuwait
> 8) Syria
> 9) Libya
> 10) Morroco



Its not only the military strength rather willingness to fight a war for muslim cause. In that case you should not rule out Bangladesh. Bangladesh is far more involved than a lot of countries mentioned here.

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## TaimiKhan

Guys, kindly take out the gulf countries of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, UAE out of this list, no matter how well are you equipped, if soldiers are not worth a fight you can't fight, and as per past experience & looking at these oil rich countries their armies can't fight. The lesser equipped Muslim armies may perform better then these 3. 

In Top 3, Pakistan, Turkey & Iran would come because they are well equipped, better trained, war experienced & have to motivation, the will to fight. 

Syria & Egypt & Jordan were good fighting armies but now don't seem to but they may have the courage & willingness to fight.

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## DaRk WaVe

UAE has got one hell of a air force,70 Mirage 2000-9s, 60 F-16Block 60s and 60 odd Rafales are coming and if i m not wrong they are also going for P-8I, CH-47C/D Chinook, AS.365N3 Dauphin II, AS.550C3 Fennec, Agusta Westland AW139, EC 155B1, AH-64A Apache, Cessna 208B Grand Caravan II & in missiles HARM missiles, AIM-120C, AIM-9M, Harpoons and MICA AAM, this is one hell of a air force considering size of UAE & once 60 odd Rafales come UAE air force can ROCK


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## Durran3

lol UAE's air-force isn't worth a tinker's dam, the Turkish, Iranian or Pakistani air force would crush them in minutes


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## eastwatch

VisionHawk said:


> it was ww1 not ww2 turkey didnot take part in 2 right?
> 
> by the way guys turkey won at constantinople(istanbul) in ww1 and it is still part of theirs and because of which turkey also have the acess to europe


By controlling lands around Constantinoples (Istambul), Turkey is partly europe. But, because Turkey controls both sides of Bosphorus Strait, this Strait is no more an international sea. Thus, Turkey controls the main sea route to Russia and other european countries in the east, and the Black Sea has become a Turkish lake in essence. Bosphorus is very strategically located.


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## moha199

I believe that this list is much positive.

1: Pakistan
Because of too much war experience with way bigger powers, Fought indirectly with Russia, USA in Afganistan through proxis, directly with India many times, Well trained and up to date, Airforce is getting better and self sufficient, War industry is getting self sufficient and in good numbers, One of the best missile technology, Fair Navel power, soilders are more emotionally charged because of, On and off conflicts, In the last, Armed forces are almost in excercise ever since it's existence. Armed forces are equiped with the best deterence in the world.

2: Turkey
One of the best army in Muslim and non muslim world, Prety good airforce, Navel is good as well, Armed forces are better protected, Pretty good history of conflicts and win ratio in wars. Over all best Muslim army.

3: Iran
Strong army, good missiles and maybe a Nuclear power. Well organized Muslim army under a stricte code, plus point to the country.

rest i won't say since, I don't have much information but Egypten Armed forces will be 4th for their history.

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## SinoIndusFriendship

I thought this thread is top 10 muslim militaries, then why are indonesia and malaysia left out? You guys can't be serious to think these two countries can't beat many of those arab ones?


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## maverick2009

Neutral Veiwpoint. 

The militaries of Saudi Eygpt and in particular Turkey are around 20 years ahead of Pakistan in their equipment training and military doctrine. 

They are also far richer with much larger Forex GDP and military budgets. This means they will continue to buy & modernise far quicker then Pakistan. 

Turkey is a NATO standard military with a Navy same size as India,s 

Eygpt as over 250 F16/Mirage 2000 now today

Saudi spends $30 billion a year on military has 4 AWACS Typhoons & Tornados. 

Pakistan has Nuclear weapons and Good missles but 90&#37; of their conventional weapons are obselete compared to the RICH ARAB STATES. 

Iran is potentialy as rich as Saudi only sanctions have held this moslem super power back. They are a great Race with rich history and the Western World fear them. Military has been been badly hit by sanctions. 

One fair point though take aside equipment the Arabs seem to get their arses kicked by Israel al the time.

But i,m sure Turkey can take on Israel

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## Adios Amigo

i like the title of yor post



maverick2009 said:


> Neutral Veiwpoint.


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## Peshwa

^^^^^I have to agree with Maverick here...

I feel the edge Pakistan has over these countries is that they have long range missiles which negate the need for a country to take the war into the others land.....

Apart from this, the Pakistani miliatary is far behind in conventional weapons......

Although nuclear weapons are deadly and definitely are an ace up ones sleeve, I discount their effectiveness since in case of a war, if one is forced to use their nuclear weapons, it means that their conventional forces have been decimated and the nukes are being used as a final solution......
If nukes are used, the country using these will be forced back to the stone age by the world community.......Hence even a single nuke fired can cause mutually assured destruction.....no retaliation required!!!!

Also, why isnt India part of this list.....we have the third largest muslim population in the world.....definitely more than Turkey and Iran....and if Turkey being a secular nation by principal is included....so should India!!!

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## paritosh

^I second that...

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## Ingis

^
India can't be a part of this list because only 13 to 15&#37; of its population is Muslim. In that case, even Russia can be included in the list because 16% of its population is Muslim.

BTW, Indonesia is also a Muslim-majority country and is definitely among the top 3 Muslim military powers.


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## greatsequence

1) Turkey
2)Indonesia
3)Pakistan
4)Egypt
5)Iran
6)Saudi Arabia

Considering conventional weapons.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

greatsequence said:


> 1) Turkey
> 2)Indonesia
> 3)Pakistan
> 4)Egypt
> 5)Iran
> 6)Saudi Arabia
> 
> Considering conventional weapons.



The ordering may vary, but that's about the top 6 Islamic Military (only considering conventional weapons).


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## paritosh

indonesia can't be ahead of Pakistan??...or have I been sleeping all the while?
Infact in temrs of BMs and WMDs Pakistan scores ahead of Turkey too..

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## WarProfessor

The first two would be Pakistan / Iran.
(since Pak got nukes, that makes Pak #1).


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## IndiaNews98

Indian Army is definitely on top. It protects the lives of 160 million muslims.


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## WarProfessor

IndiaNews98 said:


> Indian Army is definitely on top. It protects the lives of 160 million muslims.



Maybe. But you stand no chance against an allied army of Pak+Iran. (This is a fictional scenario, I don't know the relationship between them).

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## aj120

^^^Though India has a large Muslim population, it would be childish to include it in the list because Muslims are not the majority. They are a minority. This is a list for "Muslim Militaries".


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## IndiaNews98

WarProfessor said:


> Maybe. But you stand no chance against an allied army of Pak+Iran. (This is a fictional scenario, I don't know the relationship between them).



Iran is actually friendly with India, so maybe you should consider India+Iran versus Pakistan. (just kidding )

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## IndiaNews98

aj120 said:


> ^^^Though India has a large Muslim population, it would be childish to include it in the list because Muslims are not the majority. They are a minority. This is a list for "Muslim Militaries".



But then Turkey is secular country. How can you include it in the list of Muslim militaries?

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## fhassan

Most of the population of Turkey is Muslim, as are almost all of their soldiers. On that basis I have no problems with it being included on the list.

In terms of the conventional force, Turkey would be the most powerful. However, in terms of an all out war between Pakistan and Turkey(which will never happen), let's just say I wouldnt like to be in turkey...


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## maverick2009

Turkey is part of the Nato Alliance. 

No one can touch Turkey NOT EVEN Russia.


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## aj120

IndiaNews98 said:


> But then Turkey is secular country. How can you include it in the list of Muslim militaries?



Man, there are so many other countries who are secular and contain a large muslim portion. But that portion of the population isn't as huge as the majority. You don't typically think of India as being a Muslim country when it comes to mind.


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## pkd

IndiaNews98 said:


> Indian Army is definitely on top. It protects the lives of 160 million muslims.



Specially RSS and Nirander Modi Biragade doing it superbly.

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## wild peace

Peshwa said:


> ^^^^^I have to agree with Maverick here...
> 
> I feel the edge Pakistan has over these countries is that they have long range missiles which negate the need for a country to take the war into the others land.....
> 
> Apart from this, the Pakistani miliatary is far behind in conventional weapons......
> 
> Although nuclear weapons are deadly and definitely are an ace up ones sleeve, I discount their effectiveness since in case of a war, if one is forced to use their nuclear weapons, it means that their conventional forces have been decimated and the nukes are being used as a final solution......
> If nukes are used, the country using these will be forced back to the stone age by the world community.......Hence even a single nuke fired can cause mutually assured destruction.....no retaliation required!!!!
> 
> Also, why isnt India part of this list.....we have the third largest muslim population in the world.....definitely more than Turkey and Iran....and if Turkey being a secular nation by principal is included....so should India!!!



Nothing personal PASHA but india claim havily hundu nation then Muslim or christian.


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## wild peace

IndiaNews98 said:


> Indian Army is definitely on top. It protects the lives of 160 million muslims.



Yes you are right from RSS and other Hindu Terroriest organisation(like they save in Gujrat , Samjhto express and in kashmir)


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## greatsequence

ajay26uk said:


> Wt about the islamic jihadi massacre of kashmiri hindu pundits, the attacks on hindu temples in Varansi and gujarat and also the genocide of hindus in pakistan and bangladesh? Did you forget the attacks on Christians in Karachi? India still has 150 million muslims, how many non- muslims live in Pakistan?



Pathetic. My friend there is a big difference in an occasional incident and a campaign by government to kill Muslims. When did this massacre happen can you please tell me.


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## abbasniazi

I'll Put that list as under:-.

*1)Pakistan*(7th largest Armed Forces in the world, very well trained and war experianced forces, strong Army,Highly professional airforce,Modest but effective Navy, Nuclear weapons, Extensive Missile technology,BRBMs,SRBMs,IRBMs and now developing ICBMs/SLVs, Cruise Missiles, UAVs,but the strongest Point of the country is self reliance, they are building Fighter Planes, Tanks, Submarines,Nuclear Weapons,Missiles etc at home)
*2)Turkey *(Rich History, they have the experiance of being the super power in the past,One of The Best Equipped and Trained Triad of Armed Forces in the world and probably "THE BEST" conventional armed forces in the muslim world, all they lack is their own nuclear weapons(though 40+ of NATO warheads are at their disposal) and Missile Technology)
*3)Iran *(Rich History, strong army and good navy, but weak airforce, they can jump up the list if they equip and train their forces with state of the art technology, plus point is Oil)
*4)Egypt *(Rich History, Very strong fleet of fighter planes,strong army, good enough navy, they have rich war experiance against the deadliest of the enemies like Isreal)
*5)Saudi Arabia *(Richest Oil Producing Country, Very good and state of the art equipment specially airfoce, reasonable number of soldiers but they lack the spirit to fight, navy is okay)
*6)Bangladesh *(Very Good triad of army , Air force and navy, lack of funds is the trouble but they are well trained and have modernized their forces in the recent past and are doing so even now)
*7)UAE* (The only reason why UAE is ahead of some of other muslim countries is its airforce, they have and intend to have a formidible airforce in near future, if pakistan would be provided with the fighter planes that UAE has it could knock down any airforce in the world)
*8)Indonesia *(Lasgest Muslim population, strong economy, needs to modernize its forces immediatly)
*9)Syria *(Most of their airforce has been trained by pakistanis after arab isreal war, but they lack equipment, their army has the spirit to fight against any agressor, rich war experiance)
*10) Algeria *(not heard in this context before but its an oil rich country who has become aware of the importance of strong military forces and is modernizing its forces quickly, latest acquisition includes Sukhoi 30 MK from Russia)

people may not agree to the list i,ve put here but this is what this forum is all about, agreement,disagreement and a better suggestion, so all of u are welcome to correct my analysis...Thanks...

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## SQ8

5 minutes and nothing to do..
lets join in..and this list's entry has been for nations with a Majority muslim population...not states that have Islamic somewhere in their name
Top ten..
1.Turkey: Has been and still is state of the art, stood as bulwark against the soviets for 50 years. And right now can be termed the best in terms of professionalism amongst states with a Majority population.

2. Iran: Sanctioned, Cutoff, Harassed by multiple threats and fought an eight year long war of attrition and with its air force came out on top. For 30 years played a virtual war with the soviet union and in the 8 years war held off an iraqi military which was supported by multiple superpowers.

3.Egypt: Although it has suffered defeats at the hands of the Israeli's thrice, the fact that it fought with western powers, nearly blew the Israeli air force out of the sky with sams and almost succeeded in defeating the Israeli's save for American help..it deserves this spot. Today the Egyptian military is one of the strongest in the Africa and the middle east.

4.Pakistan: Having fought three declared wars and three proxy wars with its eastern neighbor, and having suffered strategic defeats in all of them. Pakistan would have ranked low if not for the tactical prowess demonstrated by its field commanders and the performance of its Air force against a numerically superior opposition. However, due to constant involvement in the politics of its nation the professionalism of the military was in serious doubt, although the current civil war on militancy has changed that impression and the Pakistani military is again asserting itself as a Professional military force. The thing that actually boosts this list up is Pakistan's performance during the Afghan war, having provided logistical and strategic support to the Mujaheddin, it can be assumed that if not for Pakistan the afghan jihad would have had very difficult times. And if not completely, partially Pakistan's armed forces are responsible for the downfall of a superpower. This has led to me ranking it higher than I would have.

5.Saudi Arabia: The Saudi's have come this high simply because they have the sheer finances to afford top range equipment. But their record of using this equipment has been far from exemplary. Consider the Saudi Air force tornado force which is the largest outside Europe yet has a higher attrition rate than two users of the airframe combined. Also the Saudi's have never fought on their own, usually assisted by a foreign manpower their combat effectiveness cannot be graded. Having fought with yemeni tribal hordes in the 60's and in the 90's with Iraq. The Saudi's will in ten years possess one of the best air forces in the world in terms of equipment. Which earns them this spot.

6.United Arab Emirates: Rising out of oil and tourism the UAE military has been expanding with exponential growth rates. With the greatest proportion of High tech equipment per man power second only to Israel it has the potential to be a power to be reckoned with. However, it has seldom seen conflict and its manpower is derived from friendly countries.

7.Syria: Having fought and lost all conflicts with Israel, the Syrians should be lower.. however.. their covert and overt support of hezabollah and the headache it is to Israel allots them a higher position in the list.

8.Jordan: Having fought the Israeli's in 67.. the Jordanians deserve credit for having maintained the least casualties in conflicts. 

9.Indonesia: With a spread out area, Indonesia prepares for initial defeat, but with its focus on heavy guerrilla warfare. combined with the geography of its landmass. Also, due to its doctrine of civil military defense. Indonesia could very well have the worlds largest reserves with every person obliged under law to report for conscription at the time of war.

10. Having been at the forefront previously in African Peace keeping regiments, the Nigerian military has degraded itself. however there is a new force emerging from within and reports say the Nigerian military is regaining its lost edge thanks to foreign help. 

In case you wish for an Islamic republic sort of list.. umm.. I'm not interested.

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## Silverfalcon

It would be a huge step forward for Muslims as a whole , if we form our own peace keeping force.

Pakistan , Bangladesh , Malaysia , Saudia Arab , Iran , Turkey.

Why should we let other *so called* peace keeping forces such as NATO and United Nations handle matters of the Muslim world.
NATO and United nations both are Zionist organizations and their last object is to restore peace in the troubled Muslim regions.


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## DesiGuy

Hawk said:


> Ok guys, as ahsan told me to open a new thread if I wanted to and I wanted so I opened a new thread. So post now, only the muslim militaries!!!!





No offense, but i thought you said militants?


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## Canaan

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> I thought this thread is top 10 muslim militaries, then why are indonesia and malaysia left out? You guys can't be serious to think these two countries can't beat many of those arab ones?



I absolutely agree!
Malaysia and Indonesia are actually quite capable forces and muslim too


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## cabatli_53

A littile bit correction about history of Turkiye...

-Constantinople conquered in 1453 by Fatih Sultan Mehmet and This city became Turkish and renamed Istanbul. Istanbul is belong to us since 1453, not WW-1...

-First victory of Turkish forces against Byzantine empires have been placed in 1071 Malazgirt War in Anatolia... Ottoman army have used special Turkish war tactics "Hilal tactic" in that war...

-Turkish forces have demolished both Byzantine and Roman Christian empires in history...

-Turkish forces have conquerod almost half of Europe and controlled Europeans in the times of Kanuni Sultan Suleyman... 

-At WW-1, Britania, French, Italy, Russia, India, Australia, New Zeland have attacked Turkey from all sides to divide Turkey many pieces in accordance with their imperial ideology but We had a leader called M. Kemal Ataturk... M.Kemal Ataturk and his fellows have fought both Gallipoli and South fronts successfully against many great powers but Finally, Imperialists have won the war. Germany,Turkey and Austuria has been defeated. More than 250.000 enemy soldiers have been killed by Turkish forces in WW-1

-After WW-1, When Greece, which was supported by Britain forces, understand that Turkey has been defeated and despredated by imperialists, They have also attacked to us... and so Turkish independance war, 1920, has been started by M. Kemal Ataturk and his civilian forces collected by Turkish public... We have kicked Greece and send them where they entered in our borders thanks to M. Kemal Ataturk... Then M. Kemal Ataturk change its route towards to all Britain, French and Italian forces... When they understand that they can not cope with Turkish forces managed by M. Kemal, They had to pull their troops back...

-1974, Turkey attacked Cyprus to save Turkish civilians in the bloody hands of Greeks and conquered half of Cyprus... 

-1996, Greeks have send their soldiers to an Turkish island called Kardak, then claimed that This Island was belong to them. Then, Turkey have threatened Greece with a war and send special forces there... Turkish forces have hited a Greek utility helicopter and so Greek soldiers have to pull their troops back...


That is the determination symbol of Gellipoli war for Turkish people... The weight of ammo is 275 kg...

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## greatsequence

> umm go to Amnesty or UN and see the treatment of hindus in pakistan and bangladesh. See this artical by a pakistani muslim himself!
> 
> Protecting Pakistan's Hindus | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk





> When a hindu is killed you call it occusional incident but when a muslim it killed it is a goverment plan! lol thats pathetic can u tell me the number of hindus living in pakistan? and the number of muslims living in india



Even your link says one killed seventy removed which is again debatable. Dont make it another hindu muslim thread lets talk about Muslim militaries.
Hindus I think are merely one percent of population of pakistan and by the way what is the point?


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## eastwatch

iajdani said:


> Its not only the military strength rather willingness to fight a war for muslim cause. In that case you should not rule out Bangladesh. Bangladesh is far more involved than a lot of countries mentioned here.


Yes, the military and general population in BD both are fighting a psychological war against a hegemonist neighbour. BD will not be as strong as Pakistan in military terms. Only a strong economy can give us a strong military. Our navy is quite strong already.


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## Pakz

ajay26uk said:


> Hindus have been persecuted by bangladesh see Amnesty and UN human rights watch, as have kashmiri pundits. You said that muslims are being killed by Goverment program which is a lie, and if a hindu dies it is only accident! u been smoking drugs?
> 
> 
> No wonder hindus are only 1% of pakistan after u killed most of them and forcibilly converted them shows how sick your country is.
> 
> The truth about Bangladesh's Hindus




please do not come here without any true facts. Show me when muslims killed hindus of Pakistan. Do not attempt to lie in here. 

I can give you hundreds of Neutral sources of hindu terrorists having killed muslims, christians, sikhs and low castes in India. Do not make a fool out of yourself without any proper source.

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## greatsequence

Every one knows what happened in Gujrat. The Govt of moodi was totally in it. Thats what I asked you when did this massacre of hindus happened in pakistan. This is my last post regarding this topic I am not going to reply someone who has rediff as a source on this matter.


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## arihant

Pakz said:


> please do not come here without any true facts. Show me when muslims killed hindus of Pakistan. Do not attempt to lie in here.
> 
> I can give you hundreds of Neutral sources of hindu terrorists having killed muslims, christians, sikhs and low castes in India. Do not make a fool out of yourself without any proper source.



Take this. You killed, rapped, you murdered, you destory... http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/BEBB6.pdf


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## arihant

greatsequence said:


> Every one knows what happened in Gujarat. The Govt of moodi was totally in it. Thats what I asked you when did this massacre of hindus happened in pakistan. This is my last post regarding this topic I am not going to reply someone who has rediff as a source on this matter.



Whatever Happen in Gujarat was even publish by Rediff and same source was taken by your Media and Ziad. Indian media is not like your media who hide the truth. It was tahelka and Aajtak who took challenge to do the Sting Operation. Ya, it's Aajtak whom you say "not to quote" many times. Anyway its about top 10 millitary, continue it. Please move on with real topic and don't discuss the crape.


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## Pakz

arihant said:


> Take this. You killed, rapped, you murdered, you destory... http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/BEBB6.pdf



How is this relevant to What i asked for? perhaps you should go read my post again. You are clearly brainwashed by your Hindu fundamentalist propaganda into believing anything.


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## fhassan

ajay26uk said:


> No wonder hindus are only 1% of pakistan after u killed most of them and forcibilly converted them shows how sick your country is.



Correction:

Hindus converted to Islam in great numbers over several centuries, to suggest they were forcibly converted is baseless.

The 180 million Muslims in Pakistan, 160 million Muslims in Bangladesh and 156 million Muslims in India can all trace their roots back to Hinduism, where past generations of their families converted to Islam.

It is still happening today, an ex-Hindu is now a close family member of mine.


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## arihant

Pakz said:


> How is this relevant to What i asked for? perhaps you should go read my post again. You are clearly brainwashed by your Hindu fundamentalist propaganda into believing anything.



I was not aware about Mascare by Pak in BD untill I search on Google. I found lot of Indian News Article but didn't gave you link as I know your objection. So the above was some US link. 

Should I quote you "You are clearly brainwashed by your Islamic Fundamentalist propaganda into believing anything" Possibly Ziad Hamid.


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## arihant

fhassan said:


> Correction:
> 
> Hindus converted to Islam in great numbers over several centuries, to suggest they were forcibly converted is baseless.
> 
> The 180 million Muslims in Pakistan, 160 million Muslims in Bangladesh and 156 million Muslims in India can all trace their roots back to Hinduism, where past generations of their families converted to Islam.
> 
> It is still happening today, an ex-Hindu is now a close family member of mine.



Indeed it was fairly forcibly converted. I don't argue that it could have willingly but force conversion was far enough to hide that small willing percentage. Yes, off course you could be one of those families son who were forcefully converted into Islam but latter you developed yourself as Muslim and story gets finished.


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## Pakz

"No wonder hindus are only 1&#37; of pakistan after u killed most of them and forcibilly converted them shows how sick your country is."

I was not talking about Bangladesh. You stated above that hindus in PAKISTAN were killed and forcibly converted. I am asking you to show me a NEUTRAL article, stating that Hindus were massacred in Pakistan and were forced to convert.

If you cant show me the facts then you bring up another issue. This definitely shows you are fully brainwashed and when you cant prove anything, you resort to another argument.


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## Pakz

arihant said:


> Indeed it was fairly forcibly converted. I don't argue that it could have willingly but force conversion was far enough to hide that small willing percentage. Yes, off course you could be one of those families son who were forcefully converted into Islam but latter you developed yourself as Muslim and story gets finished.



You can not force someone to convert truly. If Muslims wanted they could have forced every hindu to convert, but they did not. People converted to Islam after listening about it. That is why there are many converts to Islam even today. The proof that hindus weren't forcefully converted is that there are billion of hindus on the subcontinent.


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## arihant

Pakz said:


> "No wonder hindus are only 1&#37; of pakistan after u killed most of them and forcibilly converted them shows how sick your country is."
> 
> I was not talking about Bangladesh. You stated above that hindus in PAKISTAN were killed and forcibly converted. I am asking you to show me a NEUTRAL article, stating that Hindus were massacred in Pakistan and were forced to convert.
> 
> If you cant show me the facts then you bring up another issue. This definitely shows you are fully brainwashed and when you cant prove anything, you resort to another argument.



Either you are new to internet or don't want to accept truth. You are saying what new comers use to say. So nothing offending. For you below links...


Jihad Watch: Pakistan: Eighteen Hindu girls kidnapped and "converted" to Islam

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Pakistan: 14 year old Kidnapped, raped and forcibly converted to islam

PAKISTAN: Another Hindu girl forcibly converted to Islam after being abducted

Minorities in Pakistan lack options &#8211; and hope - The National Newspaper

http://www.islam-watch.org/MarianaBaabar/HindusInPakistan.htm

The above are all links I found on the first page of google. I do not have time to post all new sources as you want to wish. Anyway, its not your fault its your Govt. who hide the truth.

I was never aware about such conditions of Hindus in Pakistan. I got known when I use to use Internet more.


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## arihant

Pakz said:


> People converted to Islam after listening about it. That is why there are many converts to Islam even today. The proof that hindus weren't forcefully converted is that there are billion of hindus on the subcontinent.



There are many sikhs, jains, Buddhist and we don't consider them forcefully converted. Gautam Buddha, Mahaveer Swami, Guru Nanak all were founder and teacher to teach their message and not like Auranzeb, Babur and all that who wanted to forcefully convert them Islam.

Anyway, why we should discuss it now. You are now Muslim and live happy. I don't disregard any Religion. I don't have opposition to you following your religion. I was just sharing something piece of information. Islam is great religion but you must try to find some truth.


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## Pakz

arihant said:


> Either you are new to internet or don't want to accept truth. You are saying what new comers use to say. So nothing offending. For you below links...
> 
> 
> Jihad Watch: Pakistan: Eighteen Hindu girls kidnapped and "converted" to Islam
> 
> Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
> 
> Pakistan: 14 year old Kidnapped, raped and forcibly converted to islam
> 
> PAKISTAN: Another Hindu girl forcibly converted to Islam after being abducted
> 
> Minorities in Pakistan lack options  and hope - The National Newspaper
> 
> Islam Watch - "Hindus In Pakistan " by Outlook
> 
> The above are all links I found on the first page of google. I do not have time to post all new sources as you want to wish. Anyway, its not your fault its your Govt. who hide the truth.
> 
> I was never aware about such conditions of Hindus in Pakistan. I got known when I use to use Internet more.



quoting two articles from Jehadwatch and Islamwatch and the rest are isolated cases. I can show you articles from USA where christian missionaries forced people to convert to Christianity. 

You were implying like in India where Gangs of Hindu fundamentalists go to the streets to Burn Muslims and Christians also happens in Pakistan.. Where HIndu leaders support massacres of minorities and allow LARGE SCALE massacres. 

You clearly should know the difference between Isolated and Communal large scale riots.


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## hazi

arihant said:


> Indeed it was fairly forcibly converted. I don't argue that it could have willingly but force conversion was far enough to hide that small willing percentage. Yes, off course you could be one of those families son who were forcefully converted into Islam but latter you developed yourself as Muslim and story gets finished.



if all the muslims in the indian sub continent where forcefully converted then why is there still a majority hindu population in india


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## arihant

hazi said:


> if all the muslims in the indian sub continent where forcefully converted then why is there still a majority hindu population in india



If you have 10 roties then you can only eat 5 roties at a time. Till xxxx were there they did there best to convert.

Also, like Hindus from 10-12% decreased to 1% as of now, it was same at that time. It decreased from 100% to current level.


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## arihant

Pakz said:


> quoting two articles from Jehadwatch and Islamwatch and the rest are isolated cases. I can show you articles from USA where christian missionaries forced people to convert to Christianity.
> 
> You were implying like in India where Gangs of Hindu fundamentalists go to the streets to Burn Muslims and Christians also happens in Pakistan.. Where HIndu leaders support massacres of minorities and allow LARGE SCALE massacres.
> 
> You clearly should know the difference between Isolated and Communal large scale riots



Brother we Indian don't deny what happen in Gujarat but I am asking you do you deny that in Pakistan nothing wrong happens. And don't bring USA or Christian here. You ask me proof, I gave now you are diverting attention. So, it's clear that it's not that you were never given information about truth but it's your wish not to accept it. Anyway this was my last post as you are being isolated....


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## Pakz

arihant said:


> Brother we Indian don't deny what happen in Gujarat but I am asking you do you deny that in Pakistan nothing wrong happens. And don't bring USA or Christian here. You ask me proof, I gave now you are diverting attention. So, it's clear that it's not that you were never given information about truth but it's your wish not to accept it. Anyway this was my last post as you are being isolated....



my point is that it is easy to point finger at Islam and claim that Islam teaches violence and forced conversion. I just asked you back up that claim, when you were not able to, you changed the argument.

I can show hundreds of neutral sources showing (so called peaceful) hindus massacring and forcefully converting muslims, christians and sikhs. There is no hue and cry from the world but when some isolated case happens in Pakistan, the media goes in storm.


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## arihant

Pakz said:


> my point is that it is easy to point finger at Islam and claim that Islam teaches violence and forced conversion. I just asked you back up that claim, when you were not able to, you changed the argument.
> 
> I can show hundreds of neutral sources showing (so called peaceful) hindus massacring and forcefully converting muslims, christians and sikhs. There is no hue and cry from the world but when some isolated case happens in Pakistan, the media goes in storm.



You have to say isolated cases in India.

Also, don't disgrace Islam by saying "it teaches violence and force conversion". It's people who force them to convert and hatred is directly related to diversification of religions rather then Islam , Hindu or christian. As you mention peacefully, there is no doubt, many converts themselve to muslims and I don't want even name because they wish to do so rather then force or so. 

I ask you should we end debate or do we need to fight as our elder people use to ?


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## Pakz

arihant said:


> You have to say isolated cases in India.
> 
> Also, don't disgrace Islam by saying "it teaches violence and force conversion". It's people who force them to convert and hatred is directly related to diversification of religions rather then Islam , Hindu or christian. As you mention peacefully, there is no doubt, many converts themselve to muslims and I don't want even name because they wish to do so rather then force or so.
> 
> I ask you should we end debate or do we need to fight as our elder people use to ?



In India, it is NOT isolated cases. There are RSS Hinduvita parties boasting on such acts. There are fueling sentiments of Hindu nationalism by suppressing other religions. These fundamentalist parties are governing and remain in very high positions. 

Let me tell, I do NOT hate hindus however hindus who are compelled to shade bad light on Islam and Pakistan because of their sheer hatred will get no respect from me.


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## khabib

ajay26uk said:


> umm go to Amnesty or UN and see the treatment of hindus in pakistan and bangladesh. See this artical by a pakistani muslim himself!
> 
> Protecting Pakistan's Hindus | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk



That is a propagation by india and its allies in BD to defame and put the BNP govt in a difficult position. did you hear of any anti hindu riot in BD history ? Never.

Look at india now. WOW you killed muslim and it is secularism !!

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## Canaan

guys let's just stick to the topic. No one is innocent and thrashing each other won't help a bit. Let's get back to the topic plz

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## Peshwa

wild peace said:


> Nothing personal PASHA but india claim havily hundu nation then Muslim or christian.



None taken brother.....But dont you think that numbers matter?

Yes the Muslims only number 14&#37;-15% in India, but their sheer numbers exceed those of muslim majority countries......
So much so that if there was a 2nd partition in India, the Muslims of India could form a state larger than the population of Pakistan and probably rival Indonesia!!!

I feel India should be a part of this list as the army belongs to those 150 Million muslims as much as it does to the Hindus, and it protects the muslims and their lands/possessions as much as it does for the Hindus.....

Back in the ancient times, when Mughals ruled India, the majority population was still Hindu, the soldiers and Generals who fought under the Mughal banner were Hindu as well.....But yet the country was Mughals, ruled by Muslims and called a Muslim army......

Nothing has changed since then except for the map of India, but the cocept remains the same.....

Thats why my inclusion of India......But I see what everyone here is talking about and if the topic at hand is about the Muslim countries with a state religion or a majority muslim population, then I agree India should not be part of the list

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## Peshwa

I think everyone here is forgetting that the top Muslim Military should be one that can take the fight to the others doorstep.....

If you cannot sustain a war away from your lands, then you're a purely defensive force......

So why not categorize the armies as such.....Im not listing all:

Offensive:
1. Pakistan: Nukes, Long range missiles, decent navy large force, highly trained, battle hardened
2. Iran: Possibly nukes, long range missiles, Decent navy, strong force, highly motivated
3. Turkey: Modern weaponry, strong air-force, strong navy, lacks long range missiles

Defensive:
1. Turkey
2. Pakistan/Iran
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Indonesia/Malaysia

The trump card is the Nuclear weapons which give Pakistan and possibly Iran the edge overall.....

Not even Turkey can match this.....obviously unless they use their NATO umbrella!!!

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## turk1453

salam alaykum muslim brothers. 
this is mesage first my mesage.
i love you pakistan and humans. beacause we are brother.
number one army no problem.
all muslims army number one fighter.
sorry bad speak english.

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## alirulesall123

turk1453 said:


> salam alaykum muslim brothers.
> this is mesage first my mesage.
> i love you pakistan and humans. beacause we are brother.
> number one army no problem.
> all muslims army number one fighter.
> sorry bad speak english.



Well Said my Turkish Brother

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## Kompromat

WebMaster said:


> Thanks Hawk,
> 
> Well i would not just like to post the list but i would also like to go over each country i will post.
> 
> Regards,
> Ahsan F




Sir : i would like to say that we should be proud of whatever force we all have got and keep it updating , as it is one of our Religious liabilities to keep our HORSES and arms ready!!! to fight any aggression !

To me all of the below belong to one body :
1: Pakistan ( Nukes , Missiles , Military numbers and training )
2: Turkey ( Simply great Navy , Airforce , Army , and Engineering )
3: Egypt 
4: Iran
5: Saudi Arabia
6: Indonesia 
7: Malaysia 
8: Algeria 
9: Bangladesh
10: Morocco 

UAE has a very good Airforce but it may take its place in Airforce ratings only.


Regards:

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## Kompromat

turk1453 said:


> salam alaykum muslim brothers.
> this is mesage first my mesage.
> i love you pakistan and humans. beacause we are brother.
> number one army no problem.
> all muslims army number one fighter.
> sorry bad speak english.



Wa alikum as salam:

Do not worry about your English , we Know what you mean and what you feel .
And we love Turkey and Turks

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## ice_man

see the ARABS have all the hi-tech gadgets however, when it comes to on job training and skills i think the only two undisputed military muslim powers are 

1) Turkey (due to there standoff with the greeks)

2) Pakistan (due to there stand of with India) 

the arabs haven't fought a war themselves not even in the first gulf war!!! the Americans came and did it for them....and currently they might have state of the art equipment but haven't ever tried it out anywhere except for maybe in simulations!!!!


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## thebeatless

nice info thanx


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## emotionless_teenage

i see someone said something about malaysian and indonesian there

these are my opinon
1-Malaysia:while overall a sound military force(malaysia is the most well balanced armed force in the region),it lack numerical advantage against it's neighbor.it is proved by small number acquisition of modern arm.for example,Malaysia signed a deal for 18 Su-30MKM,which is the best fighter in the region.singapore on the other hand,bought about twice the number of F-15SG(while vietnam has 24 flanker in service).malaysia bought 2 scorpene SSK,which is the best submarine in the region,vietnam on the other hand,bought 6(SIX) improved kilo from russia.

there are some good news though,since the government are considering to have a second batch acquisiton for existing equipment

2-indonesia,while it has the numerical superiority than it's neighbor(with an exception to vietnam,which is a dark horse of SEA),it still use old weaponry,some dated back from the sixties.their conflict in east timor/acheh have shown that they urgently need to modernize their defence force.and the way i see it indonesia is still a counter-insurgensy oriented force(malaysia already has significant conventional capability though still retaines it CIW capabilities)


semper fi

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## Ababeel

Black blood said:


> Sir : i would like to say that we should be proud of whatever force we all have got and keep it updating , as it is one of our Religious liabilities to keep our HORSES and arms ready!!! to fight any aggression !
> 
> To me all of the below belong to one body :
> 1: Pakistan ( Nukes , Missiles , Military numbers and training )
> 2: Turkey ( Simply great Navy , Airforce , Army , and Engineering )
> 3: Egypt
> 4: Iran
> 5: Saudi Arabia
> 6: Indonesia
> 7: Malaysia
> 8: Algeria
> 9: Bangladesh
> 10: Morocco
> 
> UAE has a very good Airforce but it may take its place in Airforce ratings only.
> 
> 
> Regards:



What about Syria, Jordan, Libya and Nigeria.


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## mijanur

bangladesh will be a major force inshallah...
and i read a post about riots in bangladesh over relegion...
as far as i know bangladesh never had any conflicts to do with relegions, we mostly have conflicts over politics

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## faisal4pro

*NO doubt, Pakistan is the Largest and strongest Army in all Muslim Countries! *

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Examine the following Militaries

NONE OF THE COUNTRIES HAVE NAVY , only something moderately considered a navy

*Indonesia 2/10*
Lot of People, Soldiers &#8211; only 7-8 modern fighters. Any advantage the army will have the weak air force will nullify that advantage in battle. 

No navy so cannot effect global politics. 

*Egypt 5.5/10*
195 F16 planes give the Egyptians a decent Airforce

They also have other support aricrafts from China/France/USA/Russia 
I guess they don't fully trust anyone , but how can you when Israel humiliated you in 7 days and took out all your fighters.

The egyptians are also suppose to get hawk eyes awacs from USA in future

Egypt has used Spy Settelites, and it also has 300,000 soldiers -400,000 soliders 

Egyptian army lacked behind other armies with their tanks , and no appropriate missile program. After the Gulf war they tried to change their tanks , and upgraded some but their main battle tanks are still not worthy enough or in numbers.

Also the lack alot of other fancy technology that other armies enjoy like Pakistan/Turkey. They also have not produced anything of their own 


*Saudi Arabia 6.2/10*

They do have alot of fun toys just don't have people who know how to run these well

They have 50/60 F-15, which looks great, they also have some tornadoes
They have tactical five E-3 Awacs which is a great advantage in battles. 

Now they have recently purchased 150, Mi-17 and Mi-35 from Russia. They also might get more fighters from Russia as well at that point they will be technologically cable as Israel.

They are officially supposed to also get, 70 Euro fighters. 

Their main problem is lack of battle experience, and also low skill level. During the gulf war, they needed US help to fight against Iraq.

Their Amy is decent about 700 Abram Tanks, and decent hardware. 

Saudi Army&#8217;s main problem is lack, skilled technicians, and Army personnel. They do have potential to become a force in region. But unless their force is diversified, with non &#8211;us technology and , capable soldiers the hardware alone does not builds armies

No Navy 

*Libya 2.5/10*
Libya has no air force, so it cannot protect its armies. In real battle the modern adversary would knock out their army ruthlessly in 6-7 days

They are suppose to get 44 new fighters (Russian/Euro/French) , and also suppose to get 30 or so helicopters , which would improve the sorry state of this military

They do have money to burn and its possible they could get 100-200 new generation planes with in 10 years in their inventory but they are extremely behind egypt has got all american love and they were left with nothing

*Iran 6/10*

Majority of Iran Air force is from 1960-1970&#8217;s as such their planes are out dated.
They have recently acquired Su 30 crafts from Russia according to unofficial reports , 150 are on order, 
People have reported seeing 12-14 of these flying in Iranian air. They are examining 

But they are trying to get 24 J10 , and JF17 and also Su 30 crafts. 

They have their own Saeqah fighter plane 8-9 of these.
They have ordered S-300 Air defence system, which can allow them to engage 20-30 enemy crafts in air. They have no tactical AWACS. Their army and soldiers are well trained and they have experience of 7 years, they were at war with Iraq. Also they have experience to be in war involving WMD (Chemical Weapons)

They have huge stash of Missiles and while they lack in ability to protect their air space properly but they can launch 100-300 missiles on their enemies.

They have about 1200+ battle tanks, and also they 

They have Tor Air Defence system so they can engage 3-4 crafts and bring them down, with missiles at time, but they are trying to get S300 system from Russia , which can allow their city defences to track and destroy 20-25 aircrafts in air which would be a great improvement.

Their Nuclear Ambitions are unknown but they should be able to put up a dirty nuclear weapon if they wanted. Iran already have knowledge of chemical weapons

They had 1 AWAC but it was destroyed (Allegedly)

They claim to develop air-to &#8211;surface missile that can strike up to 110 km distance specially ships 

Iran posses genuinely talented group of researcher engineers and its their biggest strength.


*Turkey 7.5/10*

They have a good airforce 200 F16 fighters

They will get 50+ new F16 planes more 
They will geF-35A , they will get 116 of these babies from USA

After that they can be considered as a top Muslim Airforce.

They have 150 or so old 60/70&#8217;s planes in back up roles

They have 3000-3500 air to air missiles
They also have 3000-3500 air to ground missile

The sheer number of these missiles allows the Turkish air force to take out a lot of air planes in a battle
They have 1 lakh soldiers second largest in Europe.

They are doing all F16 Upgrades and Developing new ones

*Pakistan 8.5/10*

Pakistan is Nuclear Nation.
Pakistan produces its own Tanks 1200+ tanks.
Pakistan has its own WMD program, Missile Delivery Systems.
Pakistan is supposed to get 8 AWACS. 
Pakistan has the largest of man powers in term of Man Power

Pakistan maintains a small Navy, which is sufficient to protect its interest it lacks a Air Craft carrier
Pakistan can be considered closest in all Muslim countries capable of producing a capable Navy

Pakistan does have ample Submarines, Navy boats so it can play an active role in seas, but it has to improve by 40&#37; or more

Now, Pakistan has 50 or so F16, and will get more F16 from USA, but Pakistan should have another 16 4.5 generation JF17 Thunders to operate end of 2008. These are their main front line planes.

But Pakistan also have upgraded planes 300+ Mirages which can operate day/night. These alone are enough for Pakistan&#8217;s needs. But Pakistan also have slightly older Chinese planes which although cannot do well vs newer planes but they can still damage advancing army tanks.

Pakistan also has a huge stash of AIR-AIR missiles , BVR Missiles, cruise missiles 

Pakistan has 700,000 Active soldiers, and 580,000 soldiers in reserve that a big number. Sixth largest in world 

With 300+ JF17 Thunder, 36 J1-0 would be 9/10 Pakistan

What Pakistan lacks, at present
a)	Stealth fighter (Could be attained from Iran/China)
b)	Pakistan own Air to Air Missile (This is doable by pakistan)
c)	City Defence System like S-300 or TOR like ones Iran has (Need research)

Pakistan is a Super Power in term of Muslim Nations, what it lacks now is Navy Carrier be a leading super power

Future direction are Turkey + Pakistan are involved in Joint Space program initiative with China. Mean while Iran is persuing their own Nuclear ambitions.

The Gas Pipeline from Iran to Pakistan will definitly be mutually beneficial for Pakistan and Iran perhaps down the road there could be joint development projects between two nations. So lots of room for growth.

For Pakistan , an important issue is economy development as important as army


NOTE : USA/CHINA/Russia would probbly rate a 20/18/20 on this scale

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## Fracker

> Iran 6/10[/qoute]
> 
> That is harsh, i will rate it 7.5/10, since they have their own settelite program which no nation have so far.. and next generation would be dependent on that...

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## faisal4pro

*right! but Iranian army is not that bad! it is 7.5!*

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## Locked

Turkish Armed Forces are the most overrated forces


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## third eye

faisal4pro said:


> *NO doubt, Pakistan is the Largest and strongest Army in all Muslim Countries! *



This declaration I suspect was the aim of this thread.


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## emotionless_teenage

someone made a large portion of error afaik in analyzing other countries' armed forces:

1-indonesia:like pakistan,they also had suffered arms embargo in the nineties due to east timor conflict.currently under modernization,they progressively under rearmament,although considering their size,the pace may took years to complete.

the army already acquired some locally made APC to replace old(and i mean OLD) soviet one.the navy already commissioned new class of corvette from nedherlands,4 new LST ships from south korea(which is very useful to them considering their geographic as archipelago and since they have marine element within their armed force) and possibly new submarine from south korea.their airforce are composed of mix of F-16A/B and F-5.history taught them never to rely solely on the US and are acquiring russian flanker as well(although are inferior to malaysian MKM)

2-egypt:they have M1A1,one of the most capable MBT around.and they also has grown considerably after numerous conflict with israel

3-libya:they do have air force lol,and are decent very by african standard.they are also possible rafa*LE* customer.

4-iran:their biggest problem is air force.while their self-produce aircraft is decent enough to give point defence/limited air defence,everyone know they are no match for much superior fighter aircraft operated by israel.i foresee iran as JF-17 and J-10 operator(since pakistan and china are willing to sell it to them).it is also possible that they might acquire the famous flanker series in the future(although a baseline Su-27SK/Su-30MK version)

i wouldn't rated them simply because it is subjective


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## nightrider_saulat

third eye said:


> This declaration I suspect was the aim of this thread.



*we have already proven our place as no.1 i think you should have known that *

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## mohhaider

salam
mon classement
1-le Pakistan
2-la Turquie
3-l'Iran
4-l'Indonésie
5-l'Égypte
_*6-l'Algérie*_
7-la Syrie/la Jordanie 
8-le Maroc/le Bangladesh 
_*les autres pays arabe sont tous "assister" et ne peuvent rien foutre seule!!même piloter un avion comme il se doit!*_




j'ai remarqué que peu d'entre vous ont parlés d'Algérie...sûrement par ignorance et non négligence!
je vous invite à visiter un forum "militaire" Algérien..
merci

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## insight-out

^^ merci mon ami...je vais visiterai le forum


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Fracker said:


> Iran 6/10[/qoute]
> 
> That is harsh, i will rate it 7.5/10, since they have their own settelite program which no nation have so far.. and next generation would be dependent on that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one golden item Iran has is *S300 air defence* systems
> 
> Which mean they can , engage 100 bogies in air , and can neutralize 12 of these at a time -
> 
> Which means that Israel/US will have to launch air raid of 400-500 airplanes to neutralize the S300 units.
> 
> Other then that the whole Iran Air is at mercey of Advancing armies.
> 
> Perhaps once they aquire teh SU-30 Russian fighters or J10 or JF17 may be they can keep the battle for air supremicy for 12-14 days. Long enough for them to launch some of theor own counter strikes
> 
> But their air force is not that good their planes are relatively old
> 
> Chavez stated 2-3 years ago he will donate 24 F16 to iran or sell them its not sure that he sent those F16 to Iran
Click to expand...


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## Locked

Je peux francais aussi. Mais pourquoi est-ce que vous prenez l'algerie dans cette table?


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## emotionless_teenage

and now let's have a general review about malaysian armed forces,written by malaysian : D

1-army:the army have already begun transformation to become a credible conventional force.one of the step is by reducing manpower while increasing firepower(while troops number is decreased from 120000 in 80'/early 90' to 80000 currently,the firepower is increased by at least threefold).
major strategic procurement such as 36 ASTROS II MLRS(which has max range of 80km+),40 PT-91M mbt(which is the most advanced in south east asia until singapore bought leopard 2A4),and new mortar carrier(120mm being carried by turkish ACV300 AIFV) give significant boost to malaysian army capability.
future acquisition are new replacement of APC(favoubly a wheeled 6x6 or 8x8) and may include self propelled artillery (south korea K9 and french ceaser is the main option) and possibly mid range SAM system (main choice are either chinese KS-1A or russian BUK-M1)

2-navy.the navy is number two in term of capabilities behind republic of singapore navy,but are also growing in firepower.
procurement of 2 scorpene SSK from france and possibly another two
27 new NGPV(new generation patrol vessel);six of them are based on MEKO A-100 corvette/light frigate design and are armed with exocet MM40 mkII. 
and since our LST,KD inderapura already being written off due to fire(for me it is a blessing in disguise lol),the government have plans to replace them with new LPD/LHD,of which two will be bought.among them LHD/LPD that have been offered are;south korean dokdo,french mistral and chinese Type 071(personally i prefer dokdo,it is more versatile than Type 071 and cheaper than its french counterpart) .
second batch of frigate is also possible(either a new one or nakhoda ragam class from brunei,which has never being commisioned.)

3-air force.rosoboronexport(or whatever people called them) have offered a trade-in of 15 MiG-29N for 6 new Su-30MKM.i,for one,actually support such decision since flanker is much more capable than fulcrum : D (and since it will ease the burden to guys in logistic section,up to some degree).the trade-in is similar to USA who offered trade in of our F/A-18D for brand new F/A-18F,although we prefer to have both of them hornets.if the trade-in is materialized.we will have either:
I-24 Su-30MKM,8 F/A-18D and 18F/A-18F

or

II-42 Su-30MKM and 8 F/A-18D

but right now urgent replacement of helicopter is needed(since we operate the old one for more than 40-darn-years).while EC-725 already being considered(for CSAR/hot and high ops),i think a more modest one should be bought,EN MASSE.russian Mi-171 should be considered,since it is dirt cheap(less than USD10mil a piece),reliable,simple airframe and can carry quite a large load(comparable to our S-61).up to 40 should be acquired(since we originally have around 40+ in service)
malaysia are also interested in acquiring AEW system.while the AEW system is most likely will be erieye from sweden,the government is still split about the aircraft(i think CN-235 will be the most possible option,because we already got a dozen of them and indonesia are selling them cheap lol)

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## mohhaider

Locked said:


> Je peux francais aussi. Mais pourquoi est-ce que vous prenez l'algerie dans cette table?


je ne crois pas que j'ai bien compris votre message mais je pense que vous faites allusion au classement!?
eh bien l'Algérie y a la place qu'elle mérite !avec :

*air defense systems*
10 --S-300PMU1
S-300 PMU2 sous commande *and more*...

_*NAVY*_
3 Frégates de classe Koni (modernisation en cours)
Rais Korfou
Rais Kellich
Mourad Rais


2 sous-marins de classe Kilo project 877EKM
El Hadj Slimane
Rais Hadj Mubarek

3 Corvettes de Classe Nanuchka 2 (modernisation en cours)
Rais Hamidou
Salah Rais
Rais Ali

3 Corvettes de Classe Djebel Chenoua
Djebel Chenoua
El Chihab
El Kirch

9 Patrouilleurs de Classe Kebir
El Yadekh
El Mourakeb
El Kechef
El Moutarid
El Rassed
El Djari
El Saher
El Moukadem
El Mayher

8 Patrouilleurs de Classe Osa II

2 Navires de débarquement de Classe Kalaat Beni
Kalaat Beni Hammad
Kalaat Beni Rached

1 Navire de débarquement de Classe Polnochny
1 Navire école
Soummam

*En commande*:

2 sous-marins de classe Kilo project 636

20 patrouilleurs Ocea type FPB-98

*En négociation:*
4 Frégates multimissions

6-8 Corvettes


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## niaz

One can never go by what is on paper. You can say that Pakistan armed forces are the strongest because if about to lose, Pakistan has the ability to Nuke. If use of nuclear weapons is not an option; it can be argued that the Turkey, being a member of NATO has the strongest and fightingest conventional Army. 

IMO the true strength of the military is determined not by wining battles but by winning wars. Pakistan has so far not demonstrated capability to fight a long drawn out war. Only two Muslim countries have the manpower and inner strength to fight long wars on their own and still survive. These are Turkey and Iran.

Ottoman Turkey allied with Germany in WWI and lost. During the war of independence (1919-1922) Turkish forces led by Ata Turk Mustafa Kemal Pasha fought French, British & Greek forces and liberated their homeland. Regret to say that PA has yet to demonstrate that it can fight vastly superior forces for three years and come out on top. Our so called victorius1965 war exhausted PA after 17 days! 

It is therefore height of the wishful thinking that Hon Members rate PA above Turkish Army. I am as much as patriot as any Pakistani but not given to flights of fancy.

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## TaimiKhan

niaz said:


> One can never go by what is on paper. You can say that Pakistan armed forces are the strongest because if about to lose, Pakistan has the ability to Nuke. If use of nuclear weapons is not an option; it can be argued that the Turkey, being a member of NATO has the strongest and fightingest conventional Army.
> 
> IMO the true strength of the military is determined not by wining battles but by winning wars. Pakistan has so far not demonstrated capability to fight a long drawn out war. Only two Muslim countries have the manpower and inner strength to fight long wars on their own and still survive. These are Turkey and Iran.
> 
> Ottoman Turkey allied with Germany in WWI and lost. During the war of independence (1919-1922) Turkish forces led by Ata Turk Mustafa Kemal Pasha fought French, British & Greek forces and liberated their homeland. Regret to say that PA has yet to demonstrate that it can fight vastly superior forces for three years and come out on top. Our so called victorius1965 war exhausted PA after 17 days!
> 
> It is therefore height of the wishful thinking that Hon Members rate PA above Turkish Army. I am as much as patriot as any Pakistani but not given to flights of fancy.



Sir, just to little bit add & differ with your opinion, the dynamics of war have changed a lot. WW1 was mostly trench warfare, while WWII & later wars like ours 65 were more dynamic then their predecessors. Turkey at that time was one huge empire, a khilafat having nearly all the Middle East under it, with vast resources in equipment & manpower to sustain a prolong war, plus it was World War, economies become War economies, preference is military equipment, rest of the economy is left as a secondary objective. 

There were no air forces, armor or mechanized formations the way there were in WW2 & in our wars, need huge oil reserves to keep running all these equipment in a non stop movement, needing money & infrastructure. These new dynamics changed the face of battle field & battles & wars became more fluent compared to WW1. Germany even in losing days was producing tanks, fighters & other equipment in thousands, becoz it had changed into a war economy. God forbid, if something like that comes onto us, we will be able to sustain a prolonged war as our economy then has to become a war economy. Also, in 65 we had very less emphasis on self reliance, a lesson learned & today we are much much self reliant compared to the 65 situation where we had nearly exhausted the war ammo & reserves.

Crux is, times has changed, the art of warfare has changed, plus when any situation comes on a country, for its survival it changes to face that problem. Turkish did that, so did the Iranians. Plus the resources a country has also matters for it to sustain a long war. Turkey has huge resources, Iran had resources, specially oil to sustain the war in one way or another. Plus Turkey was itself a military power of the region & world at that time.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

niaz said:


> One can never go by what is on paper. You can say that Pakistan armed forces are the strongest because if about to lose, Pakistan has the ability to Nuke. If use of nuclear weapons is not an option; it can be argued that the Turkey, being a member of NATO has the strongest and fightingest conventional Army.
> 
> IMO the true strength of the military is determined not by wining battles but by winning wars. Pakistan has so far not demonstrated capability to fight a long drawn out war. Only two Muslim countries have the manpower and inner strength to fight long wars on their own and still survive. These are Turkey and Iran.
> 
> Ottoman Turkey allied with Germany in WWI and lost. During the war of independence (1919-1922) Turkish forces led by Ata Turk Mustafa Kemal Pasha fought French, British & Greek forces and liberated their homeland. Regret to say that PA has yet to demonstrate that it can fight vastly superior forces for three years and come out on top. Our so called victorius1965 war exhausted PA after 17 days!
> 
> It is therefore height of the wishful thinking that Hon Members rate PA above Turkish Army. I am as much as patriot as any Pakistani but not given to flights of fancy.




Firstly, 1965 war was fought bravely by Pakistan and the fighter planes and the technology was way more advanced then the 1919 fights when it was all army battles or odd planes flying around .. of course it will take 3 years.

But for your reference, Pakistani Armned froces are occupied in Siachen heights , where the forces face the extreme form of weather patterns ... and they show great courage.

Soon we will take over Afghanistan , which is rightfully a new province for Pakistan 

East Pakistan friends are more then welcomed to join back as they have not really gained much ... since 1971 , at least with West Pakistan , they might not be bullied by India over water disputes




Ideally , the way I see it 

Afghanisatan (The new east Pakistan Province) + Pakistan + West Pakisan (Bangladesh)


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## ejaz007

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Firstly, 1965 war was fought bravely by Pakistan and the fighter planes and the technology was way more advanced then the 1919 fights when it was all army battles or odd planes flying around .. of course it will take 3 years.
> 
> But for your reference, Pakistani Armned froces are occupied in Siachen heights , where the forces face the extreme form of weather patterns ... and they show great courage.
> 
> Soon we will take over Afghanistan , which is rightfully a new province for Pakistan
> 
> East Pakistan friends are more then welcomed to join back as they have not really gained much ... since 1971 , at least with West Pakistan , they might not be bullied by India over water disputes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ideally , the way I see it
> 
> Afghanisatan (The new east Pakistan Province) + Pakistan + West Pakisan (Bangladesh)



Its height of wishful thinking.

I would be the last person approving annexation of Afghanistan into Pakistan. We don't want to be baby sitters for the most backward and unreliable people on the face of the world.

Bangladeshi people are more than welcome to join back but only after a free and fair plebiscite is held their. We do not wish to have forced marriages.


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## TaimiKhan

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Firstly, 1965 war was fought bravely by Pakistan and the fighter planes and the technology was way more advanced then the 1919 fights when it was all army battles or odd planes flying around .. of course it will take 3 years.
> 
> But for your reference, Pakistani Armned froces are occupied in Siachen heights , where the forces face the extreme form of weather patterns ... and they show great courage.
> 
> Soon we will take over Afghanistan , which is rightfully a new province for Pakistan
> 
> East Pakistan friends are more then welcomed to join back as they have not really gained much ... since 1971 , at least with West Pakistan , they might not be bullied by India over water disputes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ideally , the way I see it
> 
> Afghanisatan (The new east Pakistan Province) + Pakistan + West Pakisan (Bangladesh)



Kindly, stick to the thread in discussion. We are not talking about expanding Pakistan, we are talking about PA in the context of Muslim Armies of today.

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## insight-out

ejaz007 said:


> Its height of wishful thinking.
> 
> I would be the last person approving annexation of Afghanistan into Pakistan. We don't want to be baby sitters for the most backward and unreliable people on the face of the world.
> 
> Bangladeshi people are more than welcome to join back but only after a free and fair plebiscite is held their. We do not wish to have forced marriages.



Don't be so quick to judge others. The Afghanistan you see today is a product of some of the most profound tragedies in the history of mankind. I doubt Pakistan or Pakistanis like you would fair any better.

I don't believe an annexation of Afghanistan is even an option. Many have tried and failed. But since you believe in the fairness of plebiscites, would it be acceptable if the majority of Afghans and the majority of Pakistanis decided to merge?


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## insight-out

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Firstly, 1965 war was fought bravely by Pakistan and the fighter planes and the technology was way more advanced then the 1919 fights when it was all army battles or odd planes flying around .. of course it will take 3 years.
> 
> But for your reference, Pakistani Armned froces are occupied in Siachen heights , where the forces face the extreme form of weather patterns ... and they show great courage.
> 
> Soon we will take over Afghanistan , which is rightfully a new province for Pakistan
> 
> East Pakistan friends are more then welcomed to join back as they have not really gained much ... since 1971 , at least with West Pakistan , they might not be bullied by India over water disputes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ideally , the way I see it
> 
> Afghanisatan (The new east Pakistan Province) + Pakistan + West Pakisan (Bangladesh)



At this point in time, it is wishful thinking. Btw, I think you're mixing up your geography. Afghanistan is West of Pakistan and Bangladesh is East


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## Fracker

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Fracker said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one golden item Iran has is *S300 air defence* systems
> 
> Which mean they can , engage 100 bogies in air , and can neutralize 12 of these at a time -
> 
> Which means that Israel/US will have to launch air raid of 400-500 airplanes to neutralize the S300 units.
> 
> Other then that the whole Iran Air is at mercey of Advancing armies.
> 
> Perhaps once they aquire teh SU-30 Russian fighters or J10 or JF17 may be they can keep the battle for air supremicy for 12-14 days. Long enough for them to launch some of theor own counter strikes
> 
> But their air force is not that good their planes are relatively old
> 
> Chavez stated 2-3 years ago he will donate 24 F16 to iran or sell them its not sure that he sent those F16 to Iran
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly if you compare other countries then their air space will also perform same.. What is the max PAF capability? One of the major aspect of today's war fare is better communication and reporting. Pakistani army is solely dependent on air communication and ground communication, which can be blocked/intercept but when it comes to iran they can defend well because of their space program. Their satellite is 3 stage militia satellite which is capable of even deploying war fare, intercepting communication, un-interrupted reporting... which could be very good weapon again US/Israel intervention. while in case of pakistan.. whole communication system can be blocked in no time in it is solely dependent upon the technology imported by them. So they clearly knows the weaknesses and strong points.. I agree they have upper hand on many islamic countries because of their missile program, ground army and weapons, and navy. But yet is it enough to tackle the aggression of Israel/US? unless pakistan become independent like iran is, i am not sure...
Click to expand...


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## Fracker

niaz said:


> During the war of independence (1919-1922) Turkish forces led by Ata Turk Mustafa Kemal Pasha fought French, British & Greek forces and liberated their homeland. Regret to say that PA has yet to demonstrate that it can fight vastly superior forces for three years and come out on top.




Isn't Turkish Empire 1st broken after WW1 and then Kamal ata turk and his men achieve an just a small pieces (1/10) of the empire?


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## niaz

Side tracking the issue seems to be the norm here. I am disputing placing Pakistan military above Turkish Armed forces, not discussing very limited action on Siachin or capturing Afghanistan. 

With due respect to Hon Taimikhan, trench warfare was on the Western front. Turkish forces were mainly fighting in the Middle East, Greece and in the Anatolian mainland, this did not involve any static front such as in France but either pitched battles or guerrilla actions.

There are only two criteria to compare relative military strength without physically engaging in warfare.

First is the history and military tradition. This is an indication of unity and resolve of the nation in face of adversity and leadership qualities of their leaders. I gave the example of Turkish war of Independence as evidence of inherent strength and history of the fighting capability of Turkish army. Modern Turkey has produced some very capable generals such as Anwar Pasha and Ata Turk who proved their genius fighting against the foremost military powers of their time (Great Britain and France). Things have no doubt changed since WW1 and 1965. However, one can only use actual events as reference point.

Second is the capability to fight a long war on ones own resources. Economic strength is the key element in waging a war by any country. The very fact the Pakistan is thinking of buying Turkish Milgem warships and that Turkey will MLU PAF F-16s clearly demonstrates strength of the Turkism defense industry. Let us compare the two countries economies. (All numbers are estimates sourced from the Internet)

Turkey 

GDP $600- billion 
Per captain GDP $8,500
Turkish Military expenditure $11 billion


Pakistan

GDP $150-billion
GDP per capita $900
Military budget $4.6 million 

Total military manpower is approximately the same at around 700,000.

I repeat that if one discounts the nuclear option, Turkish military which is ranked as 3rd among the European Nato forces; should be ranked higher than Pakistan. 

However there is no arguing against wishful thinking.

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## Patriot

I have to agree with Sir Niaz here.Turkey has a bigger Air Force and army with bigger budget then Pakistan Armed Forces.Turkey Military Industrial Complex cannot even be compared with Pakistan small industrial complex.Turkey is probably the only true muslim nation whose army can actually fight war..The other two i guess is Iran and Pakistan.Iran although in Shah Era had the best muslim armed forces.


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## HK-47

Turkey and Pakistan tied at number one,Pakistan for the nukes.really helpful.


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## umar.durrani

Well if talking about Pakistan, it has: 
Nuclear
much advance weapon in Muslim and Non-Muslim world.
Pakistan is world's 6th largest army.
Destroyed former superpower Soviet union , Conflict with Present Superpower United states and responsible for massive damage of US forces in Afghanistan and thats why US and NATO cannot rule Afghanistan yet , Beat Potential Superpower India Several times.
Removing talibans which NATO and USA cannot done in 8 years.

But you talking about Turkey:
They are much strong in all fields specially they are member of NATO it mean they don't want NUCLEAR . According to NATO their first rule if some one attack on any member of NATO it supposed to be attack on against them.


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## rajeev

I respectfully disagree. I think you are getting too illusional



umar.durrani said:


> Pakistan is world's 6th largest army.


Just like China - which had the largest army at all times - even during 1950. But no one considered it as the no. 1 in the world.



umar.durrani said:


> Destroyed former superpower Soviet union ,


Who destroyed? American funded Mujaheddin with Saudi backing along with Egypt, Pakistan and other middle-east countries.



umar.durrani said:


> Conflict with Present Superpower United states and responsible for massive damage of US forces in Afghanistan and thats why US and NATO cannot rule Afghanistan yet ,


Which conflict are you talking about? Pakistan waged a war against US and no one knew about it.



umar.durrani said:


> Beat Potential Superpower India Several times.


When did that happen? No one else knew about this one too!



umar.durrani said:


> Removing talibans which NATO and USA cannot done in 8 years.


And is it removed by now?


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## PakSher

Pakistan does have qualitative and quantitative edge in missile development and deployment in the muslim world.


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## Insane

StealthQL-707PK said:


> Sir, i think, there is a few errors here.
> 
> Pakistan's GDP is approximately *$427.3 billion* (2008)...Military budge is *$7.8 billion*...
> 
> Turkey's GDP is approximately *$902.7 billion*(2008) ... Military expenditure is *$40 billion*...



I Guess you are confused by GDP (PPP) and GDP(Nominal). I think the previous poster was talking about the GDP(Nominal). If you see the same source that you present, it states 

GDP(PPP) - $ 427.3 Billion
GDP - $167.6 Billion

So for most references people talking about GDP are talking about GDP (Nominal).

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

How come they generate so much cash ?? 

What exactly do turkey imports beside , F16 or upgrades , their GDP is quite healthy


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## niaz

StealthQL-707PK said:


> Sir, i think, there is a few errors here.
> 
> Pakistan's GDP is approximately *$427.3 billion* (2008)...Military budge is *$7.8 billion*...Source
> 
> Turkey's GDP is approximately *$902.7 billion*(2008) ... Military expenditure is *$40 billion*...



Hon. Insane has already explained the difference between GDP (Nominal) which is calculated at official exchange rate and GDP (PPP) which takes into account cost of living.

Please note that different estimates are quoted in different publications and the way these are calculated is also different. Official budget from the Pak Finance Ministry&#8217;s website (www. finance.gov.pk) gives allocation of defense as under;

20008- 2009 Rs 296,077 million
2009-2010	Rs 311,303 million

I remember the budget allocation under Mush&#8217;s last year when dollar was at 60 rupees amounted to $4.8-billion; however with US dollar at 80 rupees current figure comes to $ 3.9-billion only. The figure of $7.8 billion for defense appears to be very high for Pakistan; it is possible that it includes amounts used in defense equipment purchase.

I did mention that figures used by me were estimates only and I could easily be in error. 
The point I was trying to make was that in conventional forces terms (excluding the use of nuclear weapons) Turkey stands far ahead of Pakistan. Figures quoted by you reinforce the same.


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## Patriot

I think another problem is that Pakistan Generals sucked in 71 and 65 wars.While lower ranks officers and soldier's performed well..the generals well the less said the better.I don't know how our generals will perform today but after reading Hamoodur-Rehman commission i was surprised.We had some very very bad generals.


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## Insane

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> How come they generate so much cash ??
> 
> What exactly do turkey imports beside , F16 or upgrades , their GDP is quite healthy



TURKEY :-

GDP - 17th Largest , 15th largest GDP(PPP)
Member - G20, NATO
Human development Index ( High)
Received FDI - $145.5 billion ( for comparision India only $76 billion)

*Main industries *

Textiles
food processing
Automotive
Electronics
Mining (coal, chromite, copper, boron)
steel
petroleum
construction
lumber
paper

*Imports* -

machinery
chemicals
semi-finished goods
fuels
transport equipment

*Exports *

Tourism
Textile and clothing
Electronics
Home Appliances
chemicals
Iron and steel
Automative
Machinary

* Turkey's Vestel Electronics is the largest TV producer in Europe, accounting for a quarter of all TV sets manufactured and sold on the continent - source wiki

* Turkish companies made clothing exports worth $13.98 billion in 2006

* Turkey has a large and growing automotive industry, which produced 1,024,987 motor vehicles in 2006, ranking as the 7th largest automotive producer in Europe; behind Germany (5,819,614), France (3,174,260), Spain (2,770,435), the United Kingdom (1,648,388), Russia (1,508,358) and Italy (1,211,594), respectively

* Turkey is also one of the leading shipbuilding nations; in 2007 the country ranked 4th in the world (behind China, South Korea and Japan) in terms of the number of ordered ships, and also 4th in the world (behind Italy, USA and Canada) in terms of the number of ordered mega yachts

* The Turkish construction and contracting industry is one of the leading, most competitive and dynamic construction/contracting industries in the world. In 2007 a total of 22 Turkish construction/contracting companies were selected for the Top International Contractors List prepared by the Engineering News-Record, which made the Turkish construction/contracting industry the world's 3rd largest, ranking behind those of the USA and China

* Tourism is one of the most dynamic and fastest developing sectors in Turkey. According to travel agencies TUI AG and Thomas Cook, 11 of the 100 best hotels of the world are located in Turkey

* In 2008, the number of visitors rose to 30,929,192, who contributed $21.9 billion to Turkey's revenues

* Turkey ranks tenth in the world in terms of the diversity of minerals produced in the country. Around 60 different minerals are currently produced in Turkey. The richest mineral deposits in the country are boron salts and Turkey&#8217;s reserves amount to 72&#37; of the world&#8217;s total. According to the CIA World Factbook, other natural resources include coal, iron ore, copper, chromium, uranium, antimony, mercury, gold, barite, borate, celestine (strontium), emery, feldspar, limestone, magnesite, marble, perlite, pumice, pyrites (sulfur), clay, arable land, hydropower, and geothermal power.

* Istanbul, Turkey's financial capital, had a total of 35 billionaires as of March 2008, ranking 4th in the world behind Moscow (74 billionaires), New York City (71 billionaires) and London (36 billionaires)

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## cabatli_53

Insane said:


> TURKEY :-
> 
> 
> 
> * Turkey's Vestel Electronics is the largest TV producer in Europe, accounting for a quarter of all TV sets manufactured and sold on the continent - source wiki



Addition to that;

*Beko is also a leading electronic producer company of the World...
*Turkish Automotive industries exporting their models for international markets... 
-Temsa
-Otokar
-Güleryüz
-BMC
-Tofas


That advertisement implies the export number of Beko products at every second in World...


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## cabatli_53

That is my favorite Beko advertisement... 






and Temsa Egypt institue...






World biggest sailing yacht produced in Turkey-Maltese Falcon...

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## umar.durrani

arihant said:


> Whatever Happen in Gujarat was even publish by Rediff and same source was taken by your Media and Ziad.



It should be published aur isko koi indian chupa bhi nahi sakta thaa...BBC was the first one who published that extremism of Hinsuism and hindu terrorists then indians published that. 




arihant said:


> Indian media is not like your media who hide the truth. It was tahelka and Aajtak who took challenge to do the Sting Operation. Ya, it's Aajtak whom you say "not to quote" many times. Anyway its about top 10 millitary, continue it. Please move on with real topic and don't discuss the crape.



indian media is based on Fake , Bogus , Shame , nonsence etc......They have only one rule that is : "CREATE PROPAGANDAS AGAINST PAKISTAN AND CHINA" these are the aim of their lives ...

If you talking about Pakistani media so let me clear ..
Pakistan doesn't need to hide anything because we never ever do these kind of guilty crime which india done especially the officials of india also involved on that matter..Also indian police doesn't support muslim of india when those hindu terrorist do that...


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## umar.durrani

Peshwa said:


> None taken brother.....But dont you think that numbers matter?
> 
> Yes the Muslims only number 14%-15% in India, but their sheer numbers exceed those of muslim majority countries......
> So much so that if there was a 2nd partition in India, the Muslims of India could form a state larger than the population of Pakistan and probably rival Indonesia!!!
> 
> I feel India should be a part of this list as the army belongs to those 150 Million muslims as much as it does to the Hindus, and it protects the muslims and their lands/possessions as much as it does for the Hindus.....
> 
> Back in the ancient times, when Mughals ruled India, the majority population was still Hindu, the soldiers and Generals who fought under the Mughal banner were Hindu as well.....But yet the country was Mughals, ruled by Muslims and called a Muslim army......
> 
> Nothing has changed since then except for the map of India, but the cocept remains the same.....
> 
> Thats why my inclusion of India......But I see what everyone here is talking about and if the topic at hand is about the Muslim countries with a state religion or a majority muslim population, then I agree India should not be part of the list



Its common sense that here we compare those countries which have true faith and majority of Muslim population ..... If we include the states which have large number of muslim minorities so we must create a new threat and its called "Top ten world militaries" Because Muslims are the 2nd largest religion (possibaly first in 15-20 years) and they are every where in this global...every Country , every State/Province , every City even every area..  

Only Muslims who got this rank because Christianity is largest religion but they are not every where, accept some particular places....


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Going back to discussion 


Wow very impressive , exports for Turkey definitly a top notch nations and proud nation that is


Now about the why india should be in list or not 
Well it makes not sense, even if the Muslims in india make a huge population , they say muslims are like 15&#37; but we all know those stats are false just to keep the Muslim share in their polics low level

Also , I think there are no major number of Muslims in Airforce nor in Army , I think there is a very low low quantity of Muslims in Indian force.

Muslims in India currently face economic , sanctions on educational fronts and also when it comes to attaining very high posts in companies

Perhaps if some Indian can post some follow up on Muslims in Indian army it would be great way to learn about that aspect of Indian army 


But realistically - India has problems in Assam/and with Muslim population they may not realize it but its a ticking time bomb , as these people are kinda very neglected.
Just having 2-3 movie starts , is not enough to say all 16% of indian population have reached their earning potentials or economic status

But I think , ppl say India is secular this and that but just I watch their TV channels and there are always a big issue when Muslims demand educational seats in universities or jobs .. they are in very bad shape very backward

But I may be wrong , please correct me. I have never discussed the issue with indian muslim etc

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## umar.durrani

arihant said:


> Indeed it was fairly forcibly converted. I don't argue that it could have willingly but force conversion was far enough to hide that small willing percentage. Yes, off course you could be one of those families son who were forcefully converted into Islam but latter you developed yourself as Muslim and story gets finished.




Wait Wait Wait did you mean Rise of Islam in India by force?
Islam is spread by word, not sword &#8230;
I think you read this on any Indian newspaper who add the &#8220;S&#8221; letter at starting point of &#8220;word&#8221;&#8230;lol

I am the witness that Islam is not spread by the sword.. if u tell us that islam spread by sword.. so which muslim army invaded in Malaysia, Indonesia, South Thailand, South Philippine, Brunei and Singapore (once was ruled by malay hindu king).. None of any Malays been forced to convert.. Even Islam does not spread by sword in middle east..
India was under the leg of Muslim rulers (or sword as you likes to say) for over 800 years but still larger population is Hindu. Spain was under Muslim 800 hundred years. Still it has 99&#37; Christian population.
Many Europeans and US citizens still accept Islam nowadays do you feel these powerful countries are under the pressure of Sword?
Ok now check your own country India where thousand of hindus accept Islam annually, are they under any sword?
What can I say about Muslim countries they all have about 99% Muslim populations did you ever heard that any muslim country took action against non-muslim minorities?
(I accept only in Pakistan where some blast over Christian church, but terrorists done that)
This is only incident which we see in Islamic history but this is because of terrorist and Pakistan removing that element from Pakistani soil.
But we saw regular on world's newspapers that hindu extremists slaughtred minorities in India however they are Muslims , Christians , Sikhs or others and this force of Guns  not sword doesn't make anyone to accept hinduism even people of world hinduism and india just because of that.
If we really want to converted people by sword believe me :
All of subcontinent 
Half part of Europe
Minor, Pacific and other Asians 
Almost more than 75% of world population must be Muslim now&#8230;..

But Islam Spread by word, peace, truth, nobleness and forgiven nature of Islam and Its still spreading now.

So try to think like broad minded unlike Indian narrow minded people .I also suggest you don&#8217;t follow Indian historian or media which are totally jealous  from Muslim rulers, Cultural and faith .

So just use common sense.


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## Hayreddin

1:*TURKEY*
The Turkish Armed Forces is the second largest standing armed force in NATO, after the U.S. Armed Forces, with a combined strength of 1,043,550 uniformed personnel serving in its five branches
*AIR FORCE*:
F-35A Lightning II (order for 116)
F-16C/D Block 52 (30 new F-16 aircraft will be built by TAI)
(210 in numbers) F 16 C/D block 30/40/50 
52 F-4E 2020 Terminato
104 F-4E Phantom II
39 RF-4E Phantom II
43 F-5 2000
24 F-5A/B Freedom Fighter
12 NF-5A/B Freedom Fighters 

13 C-130B/E Hercules (with ELINT/SIGINT equipment)
17 C-160T Transall
50 CN 235-100M
*ARMY*
At present, the primary main battle tanks of the Turkish Army are the Leopard 2A4 and the M60T. There are also around 400 Leopard 1 and 750 M60 Patton variants in service (excluding the M60T which were upgraded with the 120 mm MG253 guns), but the Turkish Army retains a large number of older vehicles. More than 2,800 M48 Pattons are still in service (upgraded with the 105 mm M68 guns) though only around 1,300 of these are stored as reserve MBTs, while the rest are mostly transformed into other types of military vehicles (such as cranes, MBT recovery vehicles and logistical support vehicles) or used as spare parts hulks.
Today, the Turkish Army officially claims it can deploy an Army Corps of 50,000 men to conduct joint operations at short notice, and also conduct air assault operations with a lift capability of up to 6 battalions at a time, day and night
*NAVY*
4 G&#252;r class Type 209T2/1400 Submarines
4 Preveze class Type 209T1/1400 Submarines
6 At&#305;lay class Type 209/1200 Submarines
Type 214 AIP Submarines
2 SalihReis class (MEKO 200 TN II-B) Frigates
2 Barbaros class (MEKO 200 TN II-A) Frigates
4 Yavuz class (MEKO 200 TN I) Frigates
8 G class (Oliver Hazard Perry class) Frigates 
3 Tepe class (Knox class) Frigates 
TF-2000 class Frigates
10 ATR 72-500 ASW/ASuW MPA
9 CASA CN-235 ASW/ASuW MPA
7 TB-20 Training Aircraft
24 Sikorsky S-70B2 Seahawk ASW/ASuW Helicopters
3 AB-204 Naval Warfare ASW/ASuW/EW/SAR Helicopters
14 AB-212 Naval Warfare ASW/ASuW/EW/SAR Helicopters
8 AB-412 EP SAR Helicopters


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## Insane

Well Top 10 military seems a high number a Top5 kinda brings in more thought as to who is to be eliminated. That is because from the discussion till now there are just 15 candidates -

*Turkey, Pakistan, Iran,Soudi Arabia, Egypt
*Algeria, kuwait, UAE, Libya, Morocco
*Indonesia, Malaysia, Syria, Jordan, bangladesh

The following stats dont relate directly related to the topic but may be essential in the context. So, here it is- 

Land Area - In Square kilometers
population- In Millions
GDP(Nominal)- $ Billions
GDP Per Capita- US dollar
Military Expenditure- $Million
Forex Reserves- $ Billion
Gold Reserve - Tonnes
Exports- $ Billion
Imports- $Billion
External Debt- $ Billion
Oil Production- Thousand Barrels Per Day
Oil Consumption- Thousand Barrels Per Fay
Oil Reserves- Million Barrels
Water Resources- Cubic Km= 1,000,000,000 m3 = 1 TL

* Data may not be current and exact
* I have rounded up data to fit excel and for readability.

http://img35.imageshack.us/i/indicators.jpg/


* After some study i am surprised how military power with respect to war may look different than what i thought. Countries like Algeria, Egypt, Libya could throw a bigger punch than expected.


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## Fracker

I think Turkey Supporters are getting sentimental.. Basically, Army don't stand on the spenditure but armed force, and now a days Missile Technology is most important thing. Since in the time of war you aren't always defending.. you need to go offensive.. and Pakistan has capiablity to go offensive through its missile, through its cruse missile, through it nuclear submire, with Al-Khalid Tank which is tanked among best tanks in the world. Also to be noted, pakistani expenditure on military is only counted what Civilian government spend on Military, while there are military earnings, which never get into real figures.. Not the least, pakistan manufactor their own tanks, sub marines, ICBMs, cruse missiles, and many of light weapons.. so it means their expenditure must be much less then other countries since they save cost.. similarly the number of armed force in pakistan is much higher then turkey.. so you can't say turkey goes better then pakistan.. lastly, pakistan is always in war from many years, so this also shows that their troops are always ready.. while in case of turkey only those troops are in the state of war which are been used by NATO..


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## Insane

Considering Nuclear Power in Military might is very essential. I think we can not make practical calculations without taking nuclear power into consideration.

Also delivery systems for Nuclear weapons is increasingly important under current scenario. 

I am also wondering doesn't Turkey have 40 Thermonuclear Bombs ready for use by its air force if it needed ( Under NATO Nuclear Sharing) ? So wouldn't that mean it doesn't need to be a nuclear state with own arsenal. It implicitly has nuclear weapons for use.


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## Insane

Can any senior members or mods tell me how to put pics on to my posts. I did upload a pic to post 134 on this thread but its not present anymore ? Sorry its off-topic but i have no clue where to ask technical questions in. Is there a minimum post limit for being able to upload pics?


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## RescueRanger

No Offence, but how is a Turkish basket baller related to the Topic.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well Terkalok is a secret weapon , he is in NBA to win over fans , mind espionage - good work turkey


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## emotionless_teenage

since our LST have been written off(by fire.RIP KD inderapura),the government are considerng to buy a new MPSS,either LPD or LHD







although budget constraint may force us to consider cheaper alternatives:

Makassar class landing platform dock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or

Endurance class landing platform dock ship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

currently malaysian MoD seems to fond to south-korean Dokdo class LHD.it is cheaper than mistral class(french),but can carry more load/helos than chinese type 071.

and it might be too early to say this but acquisition of such vessel(regardless of type and spec) might paved way to establishment of royal malaysian marine corps.
semper fi : D


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## shaheer_12

I see Turkey Iran and Pakistan going up down, but all others are constant.... and second were we talking about top "*10*" muslim powers?


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## TrMhMt

In my opinion...

1.) Turkiye. coz Turkiye has modern and effective an army and its always ready to fight with it's experience. Turkiye has been fighting with pkk terrorists since 1980 and Greek army(1974) last strike was at 1996 in the aegean sea. even NATO operations in Europe, Africa, Middle-east and Asia. these are perfect experience for an arm to make itself ready, you know. also has 90 nukes and 40 of them for using Turkish air-crafts and the codes of bombs in our generals hands. and even Turkiye has ability to make nuke(s)..The most important subject is Turkiye has been started to produce its own weapons as main BT. UAV's battle ships,Attack heli. etc.. and the member of JSF organizations. Probably, will be member of Euro-fighter organization. 

Pakistan. you know everything about Pakistan so Turkiye and Pakistan should be in the same rank.

2. Egypt
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Iran
5. Malaysia
6......... and others...


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## Agito

Hello everyone, Salam, 
I've been checking this forum for a while now and finally decided to join in. Sadly, a lot of the information here is more emotions than facts. Especially when it comes to these "rankings" that I see quite often, and especially in this thread. Nearly 3/4s of the lists I've seen are based on very flawed info if any at all while some are nothing but emotions and/or fantasies. The one quoted here is probably the best I've seen but istill needs more research as many better countries have been left out. 



santro said:


> 5 minutes and nothing to do..
> lets join in..and this list's entry has been for nations with a Majority muslim population...not states that have Islamic somewhere in their name
> Top ten..
> 1.Turkey: Has been and still is state of the art, stood as bulwark against the soviets for 50 years. And right now can be termed the best in terms of professionalism amongst states with a Majority population.
> 
> 2. Iran: Sanctioned, Cutoff, Harassed by multiple threats and fought an eight year long war of attrition and with its air force came out on top. For 30 years played a virtual war with the soviet union and in the 8 years war held off an iraqi military which was supported by multiple superpowers.
> 
> 3.Egypt: Although it has suffered defeats at the hands of the Israeli's thrice, the fact that it fought with western powers, nearly blew the Israeli air force out of the sky with sams and almost succeeded in defeating the Israeli's save for American help..it deserves this spot. Today the Egyptian military is one of the strongest in the Africa and the middle east.
> 
> 4.Pakistan: Having fought three declared wars and three proxy wars with its eastern neighbor, and having suffered strategic defeats in all of them. Pakistan would have ranked low if not for the tactical prowess demonstrated by its field commanders and the performance of its Air force against a numerically superior opposition. However, due to constant involvement in the politics of its nation the professionalism of the military was in serious doubt, although the current civil war on militancy has changed that impression and the Pakistani military is again asserting itself as a Professional military force. The thing that actually boosts this list up is Pakistan's performance during the Afghan war, having provided logistical and strategic support to the Mujaheddin, it can be assumed that if not for Pakistan the afghan jihad would have had very difficult times. And if not completely, partially Pakistan's armed forces are responsible for the downfall of a superpower. This has led to me ranking it higher than I would have.
> 
> 5.Saudi Arabia: The Saudi's have come this high simply because they have the sheer finances to afford top range equipment. But their record of using this equipment has been far from exemplary. Consider the Saudi Air force tornado force which is the largest outside Europe yet has a higher attrition rate than two users of the airframe combined. Also the Saudi's have never fought on their own, usually assisted by a foreign manpower their combat effectiveness cannot be graded. Having fought with yemeni tribal hordes in the 60's and in the 90's with Iraq. The Saudi's will in ten years possess one of the best air forces in the world in terms of equipment. Which earns them this spot.
> 
> 6.United Arab Emirates: Rising out of oil and tourism the UAE military has been expanding with exponential growth rates. With the greatest proportion of High tech equipment per man power second only to Israel it has the potential to be a power to be reckoned with. However, it has seldom seen conflict and its manpower is derived from friendly countries.
> 
> 7.Syria: Having fought and lost all conflicts with Israel, the Syrians should be lower.. however.. their covert and overt support of hezabollah and the headache it is to Israel allots them a higher position in the list.
> 
> 8.Jordan: Having fought the Israeli's in 67.. the Jordanians deserve credit for having maintained the least casualties in conflicts.
> 
> 9.Indonesia: With a spread out area, Indonesia prepares for initial defeat, but with its focus on heavy guerrilla warfare. combined with the geography of its landmass. Also, due to its doctrine of civil military defense. Indonesia could very well have the worlds largest reserves with every person obliged under law to report for conscription at the time of war.
> 
> 10. Having been at the forefront previously in African Peace keeping regiments, the Nigerian military has degraded itself. however there is a new force emerging from within and reports say the Nigerian military is regaining its lost edge thanks to foreign help.
> 
> In case you wish for an Islamic republic sort of list.. umm.. I'm not interested.


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## Agito

Another thing I need to point out is that Nuclear weapons don't determine a countries strength as the only real time any country can use them as when they have the world community on their side. Which will never happened (thankfully). Remember that the only country to use nukes was the US and it was more of a sneak attack while not knowing the full effect of the weapons. 

In other words, it is very hard today for any country to use nukes since the entire world will turn against it regardless of who it is. especially smaller countries like Pakistan, N Korea and India (in this case, smaller politically). Nuclear weapons wreck havoc on the user more than the used-on. Especially when it comes to countries like Pakistan and N Korea. It's suicide for them to use nukes.


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## Agito

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Examine the following Militaries



Sure...let's do that.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> *Indonesia 2/10*
> Lot of People, Soldiers &#8211; only 7-8 modern fighters. Any advantage the army will have the weak air force will nullify that advantage in battle.
> 
> No navy so cannot effect global politics.



What are you talking about? The Indonesian air force has 114 combat aircraft. It's true that only 17 are "front line" air superiority fighters but the rest are still very capable. Their Skyhawks and TigerIIs are just as capable as Pakistan's "second line" fighters like the F-7s, A-5s and Mirages. 

As for the Navy, it has the second largest Muslim Navy after Turkey! They have 136 ships! while Pakistan has only 33. 

The Army is very large and suited for its terrain. They have 625,000 fully mobilized while not including the whole population mobilization thing. They also have 375 tanks (mostly light) suited for their mountainous country. 



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> *Egypt 5.5/10*
> 195 F16 planes give the Egyptians a decent Airforce
> 
> They also have other support aricrafts from China/France/USA/Russia
> I guess they don't fully trust anyone , but how can you when Israel humiliated you in 7 days and took out all your fighters.
> 
> The egyptians are also suppose to get hawk eyes awacs from USA in future
> 
> Egypt has used Spy Settelites, and it also has 300,000 soldiers -400,000 soliders
> 
> Egyptian army lacked behind other armies with their tanks , and no appropriate missile program. After the Gulf war they tried to change their tanks , and upgraded some but their main battle tanks are still not worthy enough or in numbers.
> 
> Also the lack alot of other fancy technology that other armies enjoy like Pakistan/Turkey. They also have not produced anything of their own



Egypt has over 586 combat aircraft and 149 combat helicopters. It has more Generation-4 aircraft than any other muslim country except Turkey. With, 195 F-16s + 24 on order and 19 Mirage 2000s as their "front line" fighters, making that air force very formidable. 

Egypt hasn't "used" spy satallites. It owns 2 of them. 

It's funny when you say that Egypt is lacking behind other armies in their tanks considering the have nearly 4000 tanks with over 1000 M1A1 Abrams, 1700 M60A3 and "a few" soviet tanks (1160).

I'm not sure what you mean by missile system. I guess you mean Missile artillary. They have plenty of medium and short range missles. With Nodong (1500 km) being their most advanced.

Also, the Egyptian navy has 93 ships and is one of the largest in the Mediterranean. 

Also, Egypt has long produced it's one lower tier equipment since the 50s. Egypt also has made a fighter prototype in the 60s, the HA-300 but never went into production due to budget constraints. 



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> *Libya 2.5/10*
> Libya has no air force, so it cannot protect its armies. In real battle the modern adversary would knock out their army ruthlessly in 6-7 days
> 
> They are suppose to get 44 new fighters (Russian/Euro/French) , and also suppose to get 30 or so helicopters , which would improve the sorry state of this military
> 
> They do have money to burn and its possible they could get 100-200 new generation planes with in 10 years in their inventory but they are extremely behind egypt has got all american love and they were left with nothing



lol @ no airforce. The Libyan air force is just as capable as the Iranian one with the exception of the Iranian MIG-29s. They have over 200 combat aircraft.





AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> *Turkey 7.5/10*
> 
> They have a good airforce 200 F16 fighters
> 
> They will get 50+ new F16 planes more
> They will geF-35A , they will get 116 of these babies from USA
> 
> After that they can be considered as a top Muslim Airforce.
> 
> They have 150 or so old 60/70&#8217;s planes in back up roles
> 
> They have 3000-3500 air to air missiles
> They also have 3000-3500 air to ground missile
> 
> The sheer number of these missiles allows the Turkish air force to take out a lot of air planes in a battle
> They have 1 lakh soldiers second largest in Europe.
> 
> They are doing all F16 Upgrades and Developing new ones



In a nut shell, Turkey has the strongest Mulsim military and one of the strongest in the world. It's true they don't have WMDs but that isn't really needed in a conventional war unless u wanna get nuked in return.


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## Ahmad12791

we are talking about over all strenght in this way it is...

1 Pakistan (740,000 active solders which makes Pakistan 6th largest army in the world & 2nd best trained army in the world, world no 3 Commando force SSG, one of the best Nuclear Missile system as well as Nukes)
2 Turkey
3 Iran


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## lhuang

Ahmad12791 said:


> we are talking about over all strenght in this way it is...
> 
> 1 Pakistan (740,000 active solders which makes Pakistan 6th largest army in the world & 2nd best trained army in the world, world no 3 Commando force SSG, one of the best Nuclear Missile system as well as Nukes)
> 2 Turkey
> 3 Iran



*facepalm*

There's so much stupid in this forum.


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## Tiger Prowling

EmO GiRl said:


> UAE has got one hell of a air force,70 Mirage 2000-9s, 60 F-16Block 60s and 60 odd Rafales are coming and if i m not wrong they are also going for P-8I, CH-47C/D Chinook, AS.365N3 Dauphin II, AS.550C3 Fennec, Agusta Westland AW139, EC 155B1, AH-64A Apache, Cessna 208B Grand Caravan II & in missiles HARM missiles, AIM-120C, AIM-9M, Harpoons and MICA AAM, this is one hell of a air force considering size of UAE & once 60 odd Rafales come UAE air force can ROCK



*Yeah, they will keep them in Dubai Mall, for kids entertainment OR might use them on Shaikh's hunting expedition's.  *

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## farhan_9909

turkey and pakistan stand at 1 position
in some aspect turkey is better then pak and in some pak is better then turkey
like when it come to air force turkey is better
when it come army pak is better because having own 600+ al khalid and al khalid I and Al khalid II in development.
navy is same almost.

bt i respect Turkey very much so this is my list

1-turkey
2-pakistan
3-iran
4-saudi arabia 
5-egypt

my top 5 list

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## Jigs

Conventional-Turkey first place 
Nuclear-Pakistan first place

3rd i would say Egypt or Iran.

I would break them all down but i am too lazy


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## Desertfalcon

Jigs said:


> Conventional-Turkey first place
> Nuclear-Pakistan first place



I agree with this but I would put Jordan as third with Egypt just behind them. 

That is trying to balance and evaluation of quality, capability, size, and how fit are they to handle their own country's unique security threat.


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## SpArK

1)Turkey 
2)Pakistan
3) Iran 
4) Indonesia
5) Egypt 
6) Saudi Arabia 
7) Malaysia
8) UAE
9) Syria
10) Libya


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## bc040400065

1)Turkey
One of the best militaries in the world today.
Army is so well equiped and trained. forget the muslim world they are the 2nd biggest in NATO and thats tells the whole story. realy there is no match of turkish amry in the whole muslims world.
Airforce is again the best in muslims countries and one of the strongest in NATO. Specially when they get F35 there won't be any match for the TuAF. Stilll there is no match. Not only equipment but training is world class compared to any other European country.
Navy is also getting strong day by day. Specially they are focusing on indigenous hardware. Malgim and Tf2000 are just examples of it. Also they has one of the best conventional submarine force.

So no match in any field. 
2) Pakistan. 
Mainly because of the strong army and nuclear and missiles. Airforce and Navy are really weak.
3) Egypt.
Again because of their Strong Airforce and Army. Their Navy is also weak, but why i rank them lower than Pakistan is because of Nukes and Missiles that Pakistan can field against enemy.

Rest Saudi Arabia, Iran, UAE, Malasia, Syria etc.
Saudi's and UAE have great world class eqiupment But I don't count that because whats the use of it when you cannot use it by yourself and on your own desire.

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## Old School

It is too complex issue. What are the benchmark and parameters ? Perception alone is not good enough to determine the capabilities of a military. Manpower was once an important factor but it is not anymore. C3ISR structure, force projection , trainings , organization , responsiveness are very crucial. A modern military will have a very efficient Staff organization with Mission Command as the preferred method of Command and Control .
Among the Muslim countries , only Turkey , Pakistan and Bangladesh have western standard staff organization while it is very chaotic in the Middle Eastern militaries regardless the size of their budget and the military.


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## hellofriends

*my opinion:
first: Turky:* supported by usa and strong economy and strong military.
*second: UAE :* strong economy and oil king!they have lot of money for military.
*third: Pakistan :*i prefer pakistan at first due to it's nuclear power but weak economy down him to third.


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## cabatli_53

Do not forget to mention UAE, S. Arabia and Jordan. They are paying increadible money to purchase western products. I do not know about their training level but Those countries are one of the best friends of European and USA weapon exporters and Those countries have started ordering some special defence equipments from Turkey as well...


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## Frankenstein

hellofriends said:


> *my opinion:
> first: Turky:* supported by usa and strong economy and strong military.
> *second: UAE :* strong economy and oil king!they have lot of money for military.
> *third: Pakistan :*i prefer pakistan at first due to it's nuclear power but weak economy down him to third.



UAE economy might be strong but there Air force or Army (like Turkey or Pakistan) dont have military exercises with countries like US


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## hellofriends

Frankenstein said:


> UAE economy might be strong but there Air force or Army (like Turkey or Pakistan) dont have military exercises with countries like US



at a time of war only country will survive who has strong economy. may be pakistan has strong military but a weak economy.it's economy will crash with in a two month after starting of war. but UAE will survive more just like USA.


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## Admiral

i wont wont for any of them...  Turkey needs nuclear capability for further aims and a blue navy for the expanding power in the region. i dont have any hope for pakistan's army(honestly...). because army interfere domestic affairs too much and it looks like a political party, not an army.
Iran's army seems exaggerated to me. and other small arabic states dont have stomache to fight. thats all mates.
like one of the posts i read in the thread, Turkish generals and conventional arms+ pakistan's nuclear capablity would be wonderful i think.
Regards

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Admiral.... our army comes in when things get out of control ...
And our generals and army? dude we have sucsesfuly kept a country of 1.1 billion in its place?
wat r you talkin abt?


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## Forrest Griffin

Jigs said:


> Conventional-Turkey first place
> Nuclear-Pakistan first place
> 
> 3rd i would say Egypt or Iran.
> 
> I would break them all down but i am too lazy



Wouldn't turkey with its NATO status be first even if considering nuclear power?

Say Turkey was attacked by Russia with nukes, U.S. has an obligation under NATO and as well as the rest of the NATO allies to respond in the same manner to the aggressor in defense of Turkey.. So essentially Turkey would be #1 in both categories.


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## Jigs

Forrest Griffin said:


> Wouldn't turkey with its NATO status be first even if considering nuclear power?
> 
> Say Turkey was attacked by Russia with nukes, U.S. has an obligation under NATO and as well as the rest of the NATO allies to respond in the same manner to the aggressor in defense of Turkey.. So essentially Turkey would be #1 in both categories.



If you look at it that way then yes we would. If nuclear war was the case Turkish F-16s would be launched from Incirlik most likely under NATO command with B-61 Thermonuclear bombs. So in the case of nuclear war Turkey would have the capability to drop nukes.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

As a member of Nato.... turkey does *host* a nuclear bomb.


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## Jigs

90 total with 40 for use by the Turkish Air force if NATO approves it.


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## FreekiN

Haha i think i just had a 'wet dream' as some people like to call it.

Turkey+Iran+Pakistan = One SuperCountry

Turkiristan lol

Turkey's conventional might.
Iran's political fearlessness.
and Pakistan's mineral resourcefulness + nukes.

And to top it off, run by a secular and sane government.

Now how epic would that be?

EDIT: Indonesia can join too


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## DESERT FIGHTER

@jigs brother i think there is one bomb hosted time after time by different NATO countries.And whose code is with? USA i guess.


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## Jigs

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> @jigs brother i think there is one bomb hosted time after time by different NATO countries.And whose code is with? USA i guess.



No it is set up where a number of countries host a number of bombs.

"As of 2005 of the 480 U.S. nuclear weapons believed to be deployed in Europe, 180 tactical B61 nuclear bombs fall under the nuclear sharing arrangement. The weapons are stored within a vault in Hardened Aircraft Shelters, using the USAF WS3 Weapon Storage and Security System. The delivery warplanes used are F-16s and Panavia Tornados."

"As of 2009, Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey are still hosting U.S. nuclear weapons as part of NATO's nuclear sharing policy"

Yes the code is with the U.S. and the order for use is with NATO.


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## Hyde

for me - top 10 military powers are

1) Turkey

2) Iran

Both of these countries are respected, powerful and agressive. I don' think there is any third Muslim country that i would really think is agressive.

Pakistan apparently looks stronger than all but her leaders are worse than Goats. What is the use of powerful airforce if Americans are raping your soveriengnty every now and then by doing drone attacks and violating International borders? - Be it for good or bad purpose but any soverign country would never allow to violate its boundary or remain slient after continues attacks on its soil.

Sort out this mess otherwise i would not rank Pakistan even in top 20 list


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## Justice

My Ranks:

1.Turkey
Pakistan
2.Indonesia
3.Iran

I'd love to give reasons for the Ranking but i'm to tired.. need to go to bed^^


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## Forrest Griffin

Zaki said:


> for me - top 10 military powers are
> 
> 1) Turkey
> 
> 2) Iran
> 
> Both of these countries are respected, powerful and agressive. I don' think there is any third Muslim country that i would really think is agressive.
> 
> Pakistan apparently looks stronger than all but her leaders are worse than Goats. What is the use of powerful airforce if Americans are raping your soveriengnty every now and then by doing drone attacks and violating International borders? - Be it for good or bad purpose but any soverign country would never allow to violate its boundary or remain slient after continues attacks on its soil.
> 
> Sort out this mess otherwise i would not rank Pakistan even in top 20 list



Pakistan's government may publicly be condemning the drone attacks but secretly they are supporting it. Think about why they are doing this for a minute.


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## Hyde

Forrest Griffin said:


> Pakistan's government may publicly be condemning the drone attacks but secretly they are supporting it. Think about why they are doing this for a minute.



another sign of cowardness?

Whatever the reason behind is, Pakistan should have taken all actions by themselves. I am sure America wouldn't like it if in future Pakistan prepares its own indegineous drones and conduct operations in Washington to wipe the remaining Talibans from America. No soverign country can allow such operations whatsoever.


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## Forrest Griffin

Zaki said:


> another sign of cowardness?
> 
> Whatever the reason behind is, Pakistan should have taken all actions by themselves. I am sure America wouldn't like it if in future Pakistan prepares its own indegineous drones and conduct operations in Washington to wipe the remaining Talibans from America. No soverign country can allow such operations whatsoever.



U.S. has better intelligence in many cases of Taliban whereabouts in west Pakistan. If Pakistan does all military operations in west Pakistan, the sentiment of most to all west Pakistanis will turn against Pakistan. By publicly condemning the drone attacks but secretly allowing it will accomplish Pakistan's goal of riding itself of these troublesome extremists and keeping the public's support.


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## Hyde

well we are going little off-topic i guess



Forrest Griffin said:


> U.S. has better intelligence in many cases of Taliban whereabouts in west Pakistan. If Pakistan does all military operations in west Pakistan, the sentiment of most to all west Pakistanis will turn against Pakistan. By publicly condemning the drone attacks but secretly allowing it will accomplish Pakistan's goal of riding itself of these troublesome extremists and keeping the public's support.



In another words Pak-Forces are incompetent to wipe the talibans out of this country by themselves thus required US help to violate the international boundary and kill the terrorists on behalf of our forces?

That clearly takes Pakistan out of Top 10 list just like what i said before. If they cannot protect their own country what else can they do?

I ain't doubting any capabilities of our armed forces. All i am saying is our leaders being Goats and puppets of Foreign countries have left a negative impact on our forces and i don't find the reason to rank our country among the best armed forces of the world. It is not the weapons who speaks, It is the man who is firing behind the guns.

I would repeat again, these drones attacks should have been conducted by the Pakistan forces only, alone or in collaboration with US may be. But should not have allowed the United States to take an action by themselves. 

Hopefully My last post here

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zaki we r talkin abt military not political leadership..
Pakistan(nukes,army size etc)
Turkey convential weapons
Egypt
Iran


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## Hyde

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Zaki we r talkin abt military not political leadership..
> Pakistan(nukes,army size etc)
> Turkey convential weapons
> Egypt
> Iran



i know yaar........ i was just talking to myself 

You see i have a simple logic. A person who has &#163;10 donates &#163;2 pound in charity is better than the person who has &#163;200 pounds and donating nothing is just useless money for others.

You see Iran although being inferior than us in WMDs, Missiles or Air force still has guts to take a stand. Tiurkey too has a power and an agressive foreign policy where we are just too much inclined towards America and other countries. Our soverignty has recently been challenged and we failed to defend it well. You have weapons but does not use it when its a time to defend your country. Its all useless

Thats my own opinion only and thats definitely my last post here before i am attacked from everywhere


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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal




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## M8R

Turkey without any doubt is 1st.But i would like to point out Pakistan is not necessarily top ten Muslim army.We will spank anyone who has nefarious designs against Pakistan.Be it a Muslim nation like Afghanistan.Admiral Turkey Army too has history of Coup's.Our Internal Politics are much more fragile then Turkish Politics hence Army plays a role.Personally i think these lists are useless.Re: Zaki you are compare apple to oranges. Its because Iran so called BALLS are dipped in one of the largest oil reserves in the world!! Iran balls would have been pretty useless without natural resources at Iran's disposal.Besides Iran does not have any next door huge enemy like India.What you are saying is Pan-Islamic Vision of Mullahs but Pakistan has to look at it's real enemy (It's India) and not become anti america/anti israel just because we are muslims.Besides NW has been long disowned by Pakistan - If we can't control it ourselves then why give a fudge when someone comes in.You can tell me about Washington when US Army or other forces loose government writ there.These drone attacks eventually help Pakistanis by rooting out alqaeada/taliban scums.Half the credit of my post goes to Xyon who i quoted.


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## Pasban

&#9770;&#9770;&#9770;&#9770;;926195 said:


> Its because Iran so called BALLS are dipped in one of the largest oil reserves in the world!! Iran balls would have been pretty useless without natural resources at Iran's disposal.Besides Iran does not have any next door huge enemy like India.



Firstly, "dipped BALLS" bit is highly offensive and rude. 

Secondly, Iran carved out it's place in history and had it's most notable periods much prior to the discovery of oil, which is quiet recent considering it begun in the 1920s. Iran was Iran before the oil and Iran will be Iran long after the wells have dried up. It is a general underestimation of Iran to think that Iran today would have been an improvised absurdly poor state still residing in the dark ages and unworthy of recognition had it not been for it's oil reserves. 

Thirdly, I think you over-estimate Iran's dependence on it's oil reserves as a basis of it's progress, abilities or stances. If anything, without those reserves, Iran would be less relevant to all the issues which are being built around it but still not immune to them. Iran's present foreign policy stance is not because of it's oil resources but rather because the government is very ideologically motivated. Hence, even without oil, their stance would remain completely unchanged if the ideology is still present. Iranians are a fiercely proud people and quiet able to and are more than willing to work or fight for their beliefs. Even without the current government, a secular nationalistic Iranian government would act no different concerning it's stances with or without the oil and perhaps even be more aggressive. 

Lastly, as to the unfriendly neighbor bit, Iran has had a well-endowed neighbor next door (Saddam's Iraq) with which it has fought an eight year war and that too whilst being on it's own. Moreover, Iran's western neighbors especially are at odds with Iran in one too many different ways. Iran too faces proxy wars but with a much larger, more resourceful and complicated list of players.

Hope I have expressed my point well enough.


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## Admiral

No need to talk more on it because in every defence forum such lists appear once in every 3 months  and here we speak about the armies of muslim countries. as if there are 50 armies in muslim world... 
There are just 3 armies. Turkish, persian and Pakistan. thats all. screw the rest genetelmen. Arabs couldnt win even a single ''battle'' in last millenium. which arab army will we take in to consideration?

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## Hyde

Does ranking top 10 militaries means statistics only? Do you just want to compare number of tanks, aircrafts, frigates, submarines, underwater or overwater ships, missiles, bombs etc?

I believe a sharp knife is better than the gun without bullet 

That was my own opnion only, no need to say it pro-mullah or anti-mullah kind of sentiments. I have no concerns with mulla

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## Old School

Zaki said:


> Does ranking top 10 militaries means statistics only? Do you just want to compare number of tanks, aircrafts, frigates, submarines, underwater or overwater ships, missiles, bombs etc?
> 
> I believe a sharp knife is better than the gun without bullet
> 
> That was my own opnion only, no need to say it pro-mullah or anti-mullah kind of sentiments. I have no concerns with mulla



Exactly and it is also very difficult for a civilian to measure the true capabilities of a military which is also very different than play station games.


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## Tajdar adil

Yes Pakistan is NO.1 in Muslim world 
because we are nuclear power Making fighter aircraft making Tanks making Naval ships and submarin and our missile system better any islamic country aven India.

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## uzair ramay

i dnt know exactly about kazakistan army but kazakistan is the biggest islamic state in the world can any one tell me what place it will take in this catagory


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## T90TankGuy

This is a 7 year old thread . why restart it?


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## amanwas

Turkey is not powerful. It is just a toy in the hands of NATO. They just use it for their dirty tasks. Few months ago Syria just dropped their jet and Erdogan said that we are investigating if it is a technical fault. **** !!!

The one and the most powerful is still Pakistan. The second is Iran which is catching up with Pakistan thorough its missile technology and cruise missile and stealth technology.

Check out my blog for more info

mostpowerfulmuslimcountry.blogspot.com


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## Devlet-i Aliyye

I think Mr.amanwas is not from Pakistan.He can maybe a Jew or armenian or greek.He is manipulating Muslims with his hostile words against Turks.Turks were the leader and main army of muslims last 1000 years until 1923.Everyone Who is not insane knows that.Turks have builded in history 16 Great empires.1 plane can not show the strength.İt was russia ,not syria actually who dropped the turkish plane.And it was a political strategy "Not declaring a war immediately"İsrail and Europe,America wats too much that;Turkey declares a war against syria and isisand iran.So they can reduce the power of turkey with war.And turkey dropped many of syrian "Assad's" helicopters.Maybe turkish empire was collapsed but we regaining our stregth now.

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## EL LOBO

Devlet-i Aliyye said:


> I think Mr.amanwas is not from Pakistan.He can maybe a Jew or armenian or greek.He is manipulating Muslims with his hostile words against Turks.Turks were the leader and main army of muslims last 1000 years until 1923.Everyone Who is not insane knows that.Turks have builded in history 16 Great empires.1 plane can not show the strength.İt was russia ,not syria actually who dropped the turkish plane.And it was a political strategy "Not declaring a war immediately"İsrail and Europe,America wats too much that;Turkey declares a war against syria and isisand iran.So they can reduce the power of turkey with war.And turkey dropped many of syrian "Assad's" helicopters.Maybe turkish empire was collapsed but we regaining our stregth now.



lol a newbie digging up old thread...no offence 

And MY POV Turkey,Pakistan,Iran.....



jbgt90 said:


> This is a 7 year old thread . why restart it?



11 year old sir, to be exact...

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## T90TankGuy

EL LOBO said:


> lol a newbie digging up old thread...no offence
> 
> And MY POV Turkey,Pakistan,Iran.....
> 
> 
> 
> 11 year old sir, to be exact...


its been two yrs since i wrote that , why are you quoting me now?


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## EL LOBO

jbgt90 said:


> its been two yrs since i wrote that , why are you quoting me now?



because this thread.. i have seen it now...
u found it offensive?? sorry

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## tesla

omg 10 years have passed but the ranking 1-2 didnt change and wont change 
1-pakistan-turkey
2-indonesia
3-egypt
4-s.arabia
5-iran

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## EL LOBO

tesla said:


> *omg 10 years have passed but the ranking 1-2 didnt change and wont change *
> 1-pakistan-turkey
> 2-indonesia
> 3-egypt
> 4-s.arabia
> 5-iran



yup true that...

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## Mr.Nair

I beleive Iran is as powerful or more than pakistan.


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## PakArmyFTW

In my opinion Pakistan and Turkey are the best. Now I'm speaking in regards to everything, experience on the battlefield, technology/weaponry, combat effectiveness, professionalism, etc etc.

Pakistan has been in a number or wars. We have an ongoing war with the militants thus our army is battle hardened. Not only does it have battle experience, it is experience in a very hard, rough terrain. The northern areas aren't no easy go places, they're tough terrain, mountains, out back country. Our troops have had a long history of UN peacekeeping missions as well.

Since Operation Zarb-e-Azb was started more than 2600 militants have been obliterated and 90% of North Waziristan has been cleared. If that's not combat effectiveness I don't know what is.

Our army is top notch. Our foot soldiers use good equipment like the G3 automatic rifle which is known as a "battle rifle" because of its heavy round and heavy weapon frame. We have well armed and armored tanks--Al-Khalid, T-80UD, Al-Zarrar. Good multi-role aircraft like the F-16s and JF-17 Thunders.

The Pakistan army is adapting and evolving. We have heavy involvement with Turkish and Chinese arms industries and we're strengthening ties with Russia. Upgrades are being implemented all the time. It's a professional military.

Turkey is an epic nation. It has a fabulous arms industry. It makes a lot of it's military hardware locally which is a big thing. It's ties with the west/NATO help in more weapon deals, military exercises, etc etc. They're well equipped and have some real tech on their side. I love their Otokar Cobra and Cobra II.

Need to read more about the Turkish armed forces......

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## Pakistani shaheens

This may be the oldest thread on PDF

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## Gufi

@WebMaster I saw this post and realized you used to write quite nicely. How about a new review with rankings for old times sake

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