# Arundhati Roy Says Kashmir should get Azadi from bhookhe-nange Hindustan



## ajtr

*Arundhati promotes secession*​

October 22, 2010 2:19:10 AM

Deepak K Jha | New Delhi

*Says Kashmir should get Azadi from bhookhe-nange Hindustan*

Kashmir should get Azadi from bhookhe-nange Hindustan, said Arundhati Roy at a *seminar where the Maoists hosted Kashmir secessionist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani, which witnessed large scale protests by Kashmiri Pandits.* A large number of protesters were detained at the behest of *Parliament House attack accused SAR Gilani, who moderated the seminar* promoting secession in the heart of the national Capital on Thursday. 

The seminar was disrupted many a time when *author-activist Arundhati Roy, a known Maoist sympathiser, openly preached secession while expressing her views and urging the audience comprising Kashmiri youth, students from AMU and also from DU to stand up and fight for the cause of a separate Kashmir and to get a fair play in the name of Idea of Justice. *

India needs Azadi from Kashmir and Kashmir from India. It is a good debate that has started. We must deepen this conversation and am happy that young people are getting involved for this cause which is their future. *Indian Government is a hollow super power and I disassociate with it, Roy said amid great applause from separatists. Earlier we used to talk about our head held high and now we lay prostrate to the US, she added.* Referring to one of her earlier writings, Roy mentioned that Kashmiris have to decide whether they want to be with or get separated from bhookhe-nange Hindustan where more than 830 million people live on Rs 20 per day only. 

Espousing the separatist cause, Roy also said that in the early 90s India opened two gates - one for the Babri Masjid issue and the other for the economy. We ushered in two kinds of totalitarianism. One the Hindu totalitarians and the other economic totalitarian, she said.

*The convention on Azadi  The Only Way organised by Committee for the Release of Political Prisoners (CRPP), was being attended by a number of sympathisers of Kashmiri separatists and Naxalites.* The moment Geelani arrived to speak, the protesters numbering around 70 shouted slogans asking him to leave along with those demanding separate Kashmir. Amid pandemonium inside the LTG Auditorium, the protesters shouted slogans like Bharat Mata Ki Jai and Vande Mataram several times when various speakers expressed their views and opinions driving towards a separate Kashmir. 

At least 50 of the protesters, including those from Roots to Kashmir and Panun Kashmir were detained by the police and released late in the evening. *At the time of the protest, SAR Geelani, a lecturer in Delhi University who was accused in the Parliament attack case but later set free, was speaking on the topic*. Besides *Geelani, other participants in the seminar included writer and activist Arundhati Roy, senior journalist Najeeb Mubaraki, Telangana activist Varvara Rao, president of the CRPP Gursharan Singh (represented by his daughter due to Singhs ill health), media critic Shuddabrata Sengupta, and separatists from Manipur and Nagaland in the six-hour-long programme.* 

This is atrocious. It is happening right in the Capital of the country when a few people are talking to break the secular ethos of the country. We stand for united India. *I do not know why the countrys administration is pampering them in the name of Islam.* Kashmir belongs to all, including the Kashmiri Pandits and we will do all to safeguard that interest, said Aditya Raj Kaul, one of the protesters who led a group of young students and professionals condemning the seminar called and moderated by Gilani and a group of Naxal sympathisers. 

Emotions erupted and tempers ran high amid a group of Kashmiri Pandits there to listen to the opinion when* Roy said that: I am also aware of the stories about Kashmiri Pandits. I must tell you that Panun Kashmir is a false group. Taken aback by this statement, 65-year-old Nancy Kaul stood up and questioned the sanctity of Roys statement.* Kaul was joined by a few others echoing the sentiments of Kashmiri Pandits and other displaced persons from Jammu and Kashmir. Nancy was also attacked by a young person, probably from the north-east who also misbehaved with her and threw the paper material Kaul was carrying with her. Jis thali mein kha rahey hain usi thali eein ched kar rahey hain yain yes log, Kaul and others shouted pointing towards Roy and other speakers. The police had to be called again to pacify the small group of protesters and a large group of members advocating Azadi. 

While urging Kashmiris to boycott interlocutors, Syed Ali Shah Geelani rejected the eight-point agenda rolled out by the Centre for defusing crisis in the Valley. Though saying that the people of Kashmir are not against any dialogue, the Hurriyat leader said the talks should be on the core issue and Pakistan should also be involved in the discussions. The dialogue should not be bilateral. India, Pakistan and representatives of people of Jammu and Kashmir should sit together with the reference of sacrifices made by Kashmiris during the last 63 years. Indian Government has to accept our five-point agenda, then only we will initiate talks with interlocutors, otherwise I ask Kashmiris to boycott them, said the separatist leader.

The hardline leader added that since 1947, 150 such dialogues have been held but without any result, we will not participate in any discussions until our five-point agenda is accepted by India. *Our five points are -- first Indian security forces should be withdrawn from J&K under UN supervision. Political prisoners be released, cases should be registered against the killers of 111 innocent people, who had been killed during the last four months. Remember, we are not against Indian or India, we want the rights to self-determination, said Geelani.* 

*SAR Geelani, who moderated the session, said the demand of Kashmir Azadi not only meant the Kashmir Valley but the entire Jammu and Kashmir, Ladakh, Muzzafarabad, Baltistan and Mirpur. *



Dal Khalsa leader Kanwar Pal Singh used the occasion to criticise the Government, including Prime Minister Manmohan whom he labeled is anti-Sikh. He also took the opportunity to criticise the Indian judiciary and the audience yelled Shame Shame India, Shame Shame Courts Here. The Supreme Court and High Courts are for the bahu-betis only. What a ridiculous judgement was given by the Supreme Court regarding the Parliament attack case and observations made on Afzal Guru. The recent Ayodhya case is a stupid judgement in which facts were not taken into account but only faith ka khaas khayal rakha gaya. 

The Naga and Manipuri leaders said that like Manipur and Nagaland, Kashmir was also never part of India. To be a part during freedom struggle does not mean that we express solidarity to be united with India. We also need freedom as we were free before 1947. What is the problem to India when we say we want freedom, said a speaker from Naga Peoples Movement for Human Rights and Justice.

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## Fasih Khan

*I have got so much respect for this lady. She is too honest and Straight Talker. Salute you Ms. Arundhati Roy. May God Bless You.*

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## Minimalist

*Section 124A of the Indian Penal Code defines the offence of sedition as follows: &#8220;Sedition. Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise, brings or attempts to bring into hatred or contempt, or excites or attempts to excite disaffection towards, the Government established by law in India, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, to which fine may be added, or with imprisonment which may extend to three years, to which fine may be added, or with fine&#8221;. But Explanation 3 says &#8220;Comments expressing disapprobation of the administrative or other action of the Government without exciting or attempting to excite hatred, contempt or disaffection, do not constitute an offence under this section&#8221;.*

These guys must immediately be charged with sedition and put into jail for inciting people to break the country apart.

Where the hell is GoI???? Sleeping??

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Whats Ms.Roy upto? Does she think balkanization of India will be better?

I agree with Mr.Geelani's 2*1/2 points.

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## Fasih Khan

*She's a Mujahidaa'. May Allah Kareem show her the Right Path, Islaam and bless her in both lives. Ameen.*


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## Frankenstein

Fasih Khan said:


> *She's a Mujahidaa'. May Allah Kareem show her the Right Path, Islaam and bless her in both lives. Ameen.*



She is a Muslim?

Good some people can see the reality


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## Imran Khan

i am waiting when some one shoot her.hahahhahaha man she use her rights of free speech

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## Fireurimagination

'Azadi - The only way' conference in Delhi WTF who gives permission to these moron for such things and how come this Arundhanti chick gets visa time and again to come to India and spill venom about India


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## KS

Minimalist said:


> *Section 124A of the Indian Penal Code defines the offence of sedition as follows: Sedition. Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise, brings or attempts to bring into hatred or contempt, or excites or attempts to excite disaffection towards, the Government established by law in India, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, to which fine may be added, or with imprisonment which may extend to three years, to which fine may be added, or with fine. But Explanation 3 says Comments expressing disapprobation of the administrative or other action of the Government without exciting or attempting to excite hatred, contempt or disaffection, do not constitute an offence under this section.*.These guys must immediately be charged with sedition and put into jail for inciting people to break the country apart.
> 
> Where the hell is GoI???? Sleeping??



Nah...arresting these are not worth the trouble of sending 10 policeman,escorting them and them making them stay as government guests.

Do you think any one takes these seriously ?  After a hard days work,read these and chill.



Bombensturm said:


> Whats Ms.Roy upto? Does she think balkanization of India will be better?
> 
> *I agree with Mr.Geelani's 5 points.*



Do you support secession of Valley (the chic name being - Right to self-determination) from India.?


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

> Rushdie strongly attacked Booker Prize winner Arundhiti Roy for linking the Mumbai terrorist attacks to Kashmir, Gujarat riots and demolition of Babri Masjid.



Shez lost it?

How different is Ms.Roy from mainstream politicians if she uses events like Mumbai attacks as a vehicle for her political rant?


Bharat ko Arudhati Roy ke jaysoo se Azadi chahiyae hi chahiye.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Karthic Sri said:


> Do you support secession of Valley (the chic name being - Right to self-determination) from India.?



Hmmm.....seems like i didn't read and interpret it properly.

I "ve edited my earlier statement

Thanks!


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## Minimalist

*She's completely lost it. Paagal ho gayi hai yeh. *


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## Pride

As I mentioned earlier in this forum, that we are having now a different breed of Pseudo-Intellectuals who wants to always speak against the normal trend just to show the their (pseudo) intellect.. The only problem is that they have some or other way of power to misutilize.. Arundhati Roy is such an example here along with Barkha Dutt and other..
Arundhati is neither a politico nor a social activist.. she is just a Fantasy book writer.. if she might have opinion against only Kashmir secession or only against Maoist oppressions.. I might have given her a chance to posses her POV but she is preemptively and actively opposing everything government is doing.. she is nothing but a bigot pseudo-intellectual.. take Mr Rushdie into that list as well...


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## Frankenstein

Minimalist said:


> He is a muslim and may be he can also see the truth, eh?
> 
> Ohh and as an added bonus, he is much more popular in Pakistan than Arundhati Roy is in India,



I wasnt talking about em, was I ?? 

If I am talking about a face of a donkey, why are you interested on its tail


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## greatsequence

Fasih Khan said:


> *I have got so much respect for this lady. She is too honest and Straight Talker. Salute you Ms. Arundhati Roy. May God Bless You.*



What about Asma Jahangir and Hina jilani.


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## indushek

I think this lady wants to get hold of Nobel peace prize for sure.

I agree with Minimalist these are seditious acts. What the hell is this nautanki baazi who does she think she is trying to fool.


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## Imran Khan

greatsequence said:


> What about Asma Jahangir and Hina jilani.



both are same as arundati but style is different.

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------




indushek said:


> I think this lady wants to get hold of Nobel peace prize for sure.
> 
> I agree with Minimalist these are seditious acts. What the hell is this nautanki baazi who does she think she is trying to fool.



dont be angry yaar she has right to talk whats wrong here?

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## greatsequence

Her audio interview with BBC Urdu.

?BBC Urdu? - ????? ?????? - ?????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???


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## Frankenstein

Imran Khan said:


> dont be angry yaar she has right to talk whats wrong here?



Wht she did was, *Freedom Of Speech*


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## Imran Khan

Frankenstein said:


> Wht she did was, *Freedom Of Speech*



yes but under some limits not unlimited

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## LaBong

It seems she's trying to pull off a Rakhi Sawant of social activism! :s

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## Imran Khan

Abir said:


> It seems she's trying to pull off a Rakhi Sawant of social activism! :s



yaar dont go this down atleast she is not nude dancer.

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## LaBong

Freedom of Speech it is, she has every right to say whatever she wants, until it intersects my freedom of speech.


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## LaBong

Imran Khan said:


> yaar dont go this down atleast she is not nude dancer.



Not in a literal way Imran bhai, but she has become too sensational for a social activist.


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## Frankenstein

Imran Khan said:


> yes but under some limits not unlimited



Yes but blasphemy is also said to be Freedom Of speech these days


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## Minimalist

Abir said:


> Freedom of Speech it is, she has every right to say whatever she wants, until it intersects my freedom of speech.



This is not freedom of speech, this is sedition and no country in the world would allow such words on its soil.

Name one country which will allow such words to be sopken against it on its own soil.

This is sedition.

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## Minimalist

Frankenstein said:


> Yes but blasphemy is also said to be Freedom Of speech these days



Every country has a right to govern itself the way it wants.

Blasphemy laws as they are in Pakistan are completely different from those (if any) in the western world.

In Pakistan, Pakistan's laws must be adhered to and in India, Indian laws must be adhered to and in China, Chinese laws must be adhered to.

What's so difficult to understand here?

When in rome...(not 'do the romans')


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## LaBong

Just watch her choice of words, even when some are true, how this is gonna help to Kashmiris cause but rather making common people and GoI more cross to Kashmiris. 

You can have your 10 seconds of fame by saying 'Bhuka Nanga Hindustan', but in the end nobody in this world has balls to even say something about Kahsmir that Bhuka Nanga Hindustan doesn't want to hear, so you'll rather have to live with bhuka nanga hindustan. 

What a sad demise of a great author.


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## Frankenstein

In my POV

what she said like "Kashmir should get Azadi" is right but

"bhookhe-nange Hindustan"

Is totally wrong, Period

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## LaBong

Minimalist said:


> This is not freedom of speech, this is sedition and no country in the world would allow such words on its soil.
> 
> Name one country which will allow such words to be sopken against it on its own soil.
> 
> This is sedition.



Look, arresting this folks means, helping them making headlines tomorrow all over the world.


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## Imran Khan

Frankenstein said:


> In my POV
> 
> what she said like "Kashmir should get Azadi" is right but
> 
> "bhookhe-nange Hindustan"
> 
> Is totally wrong, Period



this is south Asian style of talk


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## Minimalist

Abir said:


> Look, arresting this folks means, helping them making headlines tomorrow all over the world.



So be it. You think anybody will give two hoots to what happens to these losers? No! the world will just move on like it moved on after Liu of China was awarded the nobel prize.

That guy broke China's laws and he was arrested for that. Same thing we should do.

If we have a law and that law is broken, then action must be taken. Simple.


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## Frankenstein

Minimalist said:


> Every country has a right to govern itself the way it wants.
> 
> Blasphemy laws as they are in Pakistan are completely different from those (if any) in the western world.
> 
> In Pakistan, Pakistan's laws must be adhered to and in India, Indian laws must be adhered to and in China, Chinese laws must be adhered to.
> 
> What's so difficult to understand here?
> 
> When in rome...(not 'do the romans')



I am talking about blasphemous references on Islam, which is common these days, you wud never understand now wud you


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## LaBong

Frankenstein said:


> In my POV
> 
> what she said like "Kashmir should get Azadi" is right but
> 
> "bhookhe-nange Hindustan"
> 
> Is totally wrong, Period



Actually 'bhooka nanga hindustan' was coined by Kashmiris originally. I think what Arundhuti was trying to say here, that India should be free from unnecessary hatred of Kashmiris(I hope it's true even though next part of her rambling doesn't align to my believe. 800 millions people living in 20 rs is totally her musing). 

Even if this is what she was trying to say, for someone having an articulating skill like her, her choice of words is garbage and should be used to wipe the wrong end of one's body.


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## LaBong

Minimalist said:


> So be it. You think anybody will give two hoots to what happens to these losers? No! the world will just move on like it moved on after Liu of China was awarded the nobel prize.
> 
> That guy broke China's laws and he was arrested for that. Same thing we should do.
> 
> If we have a law and that law is broken, then action must be taken. Simple.



If you don't want to see Arundhuti getting nobel, then don't even think about arresting her!


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## Je suis de retour

I love it, this what defines Freedom of speech
A controversial debate on hot topic made to be carried on under Police protection is symbol of free and democratic country.

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## Minimalist

Frankenstein said:


> I am talking about blasphemous references on Islam, which is common these days, you wud never understand now wud you



Of course I do understand and that's why I say,

If an action which you consider as a crime takes place in a country where it is not considered as a crime where it is acceptable as per the sensibilities of the local populace, then that action cannot be taken as a crime.

I'll give you a few examples.

Just think about one prime example, The prophet (S.A.W.) was married to a nine-year old girl. Now according to those times and in that land where he dwelled, it was not considered a crime but if I or you decide to marry a 9 year old girl today in our respective countries, we would be labeled pedophiles and tried as per extant laws.

In our countries, if you or I roam around naked and without clothes, we'll be arrested for public nudity but there are many places in Africa where this is the norm.

There are countries where smoking marijuana is is considered a crime and there are countries where it is not.

Same goes for many things such as prostitution, gambling, betting etc.


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## Minimalist

One more example, there was a recent incident in which a new zealand TV host abused shiela dikshit (the CM of Delhi state of India) and made fun of her name.

But there was no legal action against him. Why? Because it is considered within the ambit of 'freedom of speech' in new zealand.


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## Pratik

Arundhati Roy is publicity whore. She makes her living out of controversies.

I give u simple example, if i said "mera bharat mahan" ,people would and go their way feeling nothing new in it. But if i burnt the national flag i would make my way to the evening news.


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## indushek

Imran Khan said:


> both are same as arundati but style is different.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> dont be angry yaar she has right to talk whats wrong here?



Imran bhai kisi ko bhi apne baat kahne ka hak banta hai, democracy mein.

Par iska matlab ye to nahin ki hum apne hi desh ko bhuka aur nanga bolein?? sabke saamne!!!!


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## PAKFA

Why govt is not arresting her


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## MYSTIC

PAKFA said:


> Why govt is not arresting her



Shiv Sena and Modi give hate speeches every now and than, why should she be arrested and not them?


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## Minimalist

MYSTIC said:


> Shiv Sena and Modi give hate speeches every now and than, why should she be arrested and not them?



You do understand that there is a difference between 'hate speech' and outright threatening to break the country apart.


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## KS

MYSTIC said:


> Shiv Sena and *Modi give hate speeches* every now and than, why should she be arrested and not them?





Yeah thats why Gujarat is fastly becoming the most developed state in India leaving all others behind.

Thats why even Muslims support him widely as evident form the recent elections in which he made a clean sweep.

Dont denigrate Modi by comparing him with Arundati like creatures.

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## Spring Onion

According to Indians she is a Pakistani hired by ISI.

Its sad that being a journalist she was threatened with jail terms even for carrying out her professional duty and covering situation in maoist areas


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## KS

Jana said:


> According to Indians she is a Pakistani hired by ISI.
> 
> *Its sad that being a journalist* she was threatened with jail terms even for carrying out her professional duty and covering situation in maoist areas



She is not a journalist.

She began her career as an author,achieved some fame which ultimately got into her head and made her think like she is the messiah of the common man in India.

Ultimately she has now become the Rakhi Sawant among the social activists.

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## Markus

Arundhati Roy is a novelist/essayist who has now turned to writing comic books and fictional stories. 

Maybe inspired by JK Rowling.


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## Spring Onion

Minimalist said:


> *Section 124A of the Indian Penal Code defines the offence of sedition as follows: Sedition. Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise, brings or attempts to bring into hatred or contempt, or excites or attempts to excite disaffection towards, the Government established by law in India, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, to which fine may be added, or with imprisonment which may extend to three years, to which fine may be added, or with fine. But Explanation 3 says Comments expressing disapprobation of the administrative or other action of the Government without exciting or attempting to excite hatred, contempt or disaffection, do not constitute an offence under this section.*
> 
> These guys must immediately be charged with sedition and put into jail for inciting people to break the country apart.
> 
> Where the hell is GoI???? Sleeping??



*
 hello Old friend you are again back 

Now dont make thousand more IDs. stick with this one 
*

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## Minimalist

Jana said:


> *
> hello Old friend you are again back
> 
> Now dont make thousand more IDs. stick with this one
> *


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## notsuperstitious

I think Roy and other humanitarians like Geelani should have a heart. Bhookha nanga Hindustan needs the money Kashmir generates for us, millions will starve if rich kashmir goes away.

Looks like the bleeding hearts only bleed for the rich. What a pity! Looks like only the rich can affrod to hire them.


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## Spring Onion

Karthic Sri said:


> She is not a journalist.
> 
> She began her career as an author,achieved some fame which ultimately got into her head and made her think like she is the messiah of the common man in India.



She is indeed a good journalist even better than many in ToI, HT, and so on.

And my dear if Indians can take NFP. Fasizaka type people as journalists who are even NOT even authors or writers in the first place then Arundhati is atleast a working professional journalists visiting conflict areas where even Indian army fears to step in.





> Ultimately she has now become the Rakhi Sawant among the social activists.




A wrong stupid remark and notion by those who are afraid of speaking about ills in Indian society and all those insurgencies.


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## Pride

We dont need to arrest her or take any action against her. Let her speak what so ever she wants to. The best way is to ignore such popularity-hunger people whose target audience is very limited people. Her voice will die with the time when she will realize that her voice has nothing important. I learnt the same with many folks here in PDF.


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## Minimalist

Jana said:


> A wrong stupid remark and notion by those who are afraid of speaking about ills in Indian society and all those insurgencies.



Stupid remark that was but you do understand the difference between speaking for the oppressed and inciting people to break the country apart?


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## notsuperstitious

Now we are getting journalism certificates from people who think Ahmed Qureshi is a journalist and Zaid Hamid speaks the truth 

Nobody could have discredited roy as well as this particular certificate has. Thank you!

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## Novice09

Whenever Arundhati speaks I use her words to shut down the mouth of those who think that India is not a democratic country and Indians don't have freedom of speech...

Look at that man, ARUNDHATI....

I really want to send her to China or to Pakistan...

China: so that she can learn where to stop speaking and how to put her views

Pakistan: she is damn popular, she can be the president


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## LaBong

fateh71 said:


> Now we are getting journalism certificates from people who think Ahmed Qureshi is a journalist and Zaid Hamid speaks the truth
> 
> Nobody could have discredited roy as well as this particular certificate has. Thank you!



Actually in an ideal world, Roy should have been made to debate with Hamid with Qureshi as an anchor! But now is not the days of poetic justice! :s

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## Novice09

Jana said:


> She is indeed a good journalist even better than many in ToI, HT, and so on.



Certified by Jana  
Nowww I believe that she is a journalist 

On one hand GoI encourage such separatists and on other hand they cry on the problems created by them...

huh


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## LaBong

Sometimes I wonder if her half Bengali half Keralite inheritance has indoctrinated into her the self-destructive version of communism that has been practised in these two states! American imperialism my foot! Does she want that people with a long trail of degrees after their name are once again made to work as an accountant in local jewellery shops? What a goddamn airheaded idiot.


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## Minimalist

Novice09 said:


> Pakistan: she is damn popular, she can be the president



*No she can't...she's a Hindu.*

So much for Pakistani friends speaking of 'rights'.


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## KS

Jana said:


> She is indeed a good journalist even better than many in ToI, HT, and so on.
> 
> And my dear if Indians can take NFP. Fasizaka type people as journalists who are even NOT even authors or writers in the first place then Arundhati is atleast a working professional journalists visiting conflict areas where even Indian army fears to step in.



No she is not.

I challenge you Jana to prove that she is a journalist and she works for which media house?




Jana said:


> A wrong stupid remark and notion by those who are afraid of speaking about ills in Indian society and all those insurgencies.



Even Rakhi Sawant says what she thinks is correct..But do anybody care...?? 
Same is with this lady.

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## afriend

Imran Khan said:


> i am waiting when some one shoot her.hahahhahaha man she use her rights of free speech



It dosent happen in india..!! Well everyone have the freedom to excersise their right in india, unless it doesnt cross the path of an individual . She have been talking **** for years... and still noone havent shot her. So she will continue to talk but nobody is going to listen..!!!


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## Spring Onion

Minimalist said:


> Stupid remark that was but you do understand the difference between speaking for the oppressed and inciting people to break the country apart?



1. Kashmir is occupied so there is no question of inciting for breaking India as its not part of India according to international Laws.


2. Since Maoist infested areas are part of India according to International Laws so in this case if Arundhati advocates separatism then you can come up with this blame on her for breaking India.


3. BUT as far as the world goes and have seen Arundhati is not speaking for separation for Maoist areas.

4. Arundhati is speaking about the plight of Maoist areas and why and for what they are struggling. 


5. You and your other Indian fellows here tell me what do you take Maoist for ? being Terrorists? or otherwise ?


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## Minimalist

Jana said:


> 1. Kashmir is occupied so there is no question of inciting for breaking India as its not part of India according to international Laws.
> 
> 
> 2. Since Maoist infested areas are part of India according to International Laws so in this case if Arundhati advocates separatism then you can come up with this blame on her for breaking India.
> 
> 
> 3. BUT as far as the world goes and have seen Arundhati is not speaking for separation for Maoist areas.
> 
> 4. Arundhati is speaking about the plight of Maoist areas and why and for what they are struggling.
> 
> 
> 5. You and your other Indian fellows here tell me what do you take Maoist for ? being Terrorists? or otherwise ?


*
Arundhati roy is an indian citizen and before any international law, she has to follow Indian law.
*


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## Spring Onion

Minimalist said:


> *
> Arundhati roy is an indian citizen and before any international law, she has to follow Indian law.
> *



is speaking against your faults and ills is against the law then i am afraid many will be declared as non-Indians 

If you think only following laws means not speaking against Indian barbarism then thats a flawed notion 


By such yardstick, many US officials are breaking laws by speaking against Pentagon wrong policies and invasions of other countries


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## Minimalist

Jana said:


> is speaking against your faults and ills is against the law then i am afraid many will be declared as non-Indians
> 
> If you think only following laws means not speaking against Indian barbarism then thats a flawed notion
> 
> 
> By such yardstick, many US officials are breaking laws by speaking against Pentagon wrong policies and invasions of other countries



You really do not understand the difference between 'criticism' and 'incitement to break country' do you?


----------



## footmarks

Jana said:


> 1. Kashmir is occupied so there is no question of inciting for breaking India as its not part of India according to international Laws.



Is it part of Pakistan by International law?

1. No its not

2. Since 1 is true, Pakistan is equal culprit for "occupying" Kashmir.

3. Since 2 is also true, no pakistani should talk about Kashmiri freedom.

4. Please do not rant endlessly. Decorationg it with colourful and bold fonts will not make it meaningful.

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## Fasih Khan

*Too Much Truth for Indians ... biting them hard.*


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## Spring Onion

Minimalist said:


> So be it. You think anybody will give two hoots to what happens to these losers? No! the world will just move on like it moved on after Liu of China was awarded the nobel prize.
> 
> That guy broke China's laws and he was arrested for that. Same thing we should do.
> 
> If we have a law and that law is broken, then action must be taken. Simple.



So far i have seen almost all Indian members here have attacked the messenger and shy away from discussing the message which shows you have NO solid argument against Arundhati and it makes you a loser not her.


----------



## Minimalist

Jana said:


> So far i have seen almost all Indian members here have attacked the messenger and shy away from discussing the message which shows you have NO solid argument against Arundhati and it makes you a loser not her.



lol @ the messenger....messenger of peace...messiah of peace ....eh??

Nobel peace prize for Arundhati Roy anyone....?


----------



## Spring Onion

footmarks said:


> Is it part of Pakistan by International law?



Did anyone claim that from our Side ?

1. No we do not claim it as our part so your argument is weakest one here.





> 2. Since 1 is true, Pakistan is equal culprit for "occupying" Kashmir.
> 
> 3. Since 2 is also true, no pakistani should talk about Kashmiri freedom.



We are opened to all options including Independence for Kashmir. 

We are ready to accept the result of a plebiscite if held under international bodies. Its India that is afraid to lose its point of view on Kashmir.

We have every right to speak for People of a Disputed country Kashmirt as much as you have right to speak for Palestinians.





> 4. Please do not rant endlessly. Decorationg it with colourful and bold fonts will not make it meaningful.



Since this comment of yours is based on frustration over quote of an Indian politician hence i dont consider it worth replying


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## Spring Onion

Minimalist said:


> lol @ the messenger....messenger of peace...messiah of peace ....eh??
> 
> Nobel peace prize for Arundhati Roy anyone....?:



 so you have No solid argument.
Bring any even against her other than calling her a whore or loser or publicity seeker since is not resorting to tactics of jokers from Shiv sena


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## Fasih Khan

*In that land of Consciously Dead, One brave lady with the Truth is targeted by Cowards. It's like one Human in hundreds of thousands Inhumans being targeted for being humane. God be with you Ms. Arundhati Roy.*


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## Minimalist

Jana said:


> Did anyone claim that from our Side ?We are opened to all options including Independence for Kashmir.



May be you are...but your govt. isn't. Otherwise why don't you take unilateral action and make azad kashmir really azad in the real sense of the word.

But you won't...guess why?....Because your GoP doesn't support an independent Kashmir.

BTW, the UN resolutions which you people complain about eveyr now and then also do not include any option called 'independence'.


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## JEAN_CLUADE

Jana said:


> so you have No solid argument.
> Bring any even against her other than calling her a whore or loser or publicity seeker since is not resorting to tactics of jokers from Shiv sena


dare to answer this....you tell INDIA to free kashmir......so why dont pakistan free BALOCHISTAN first ??


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## footmarks

Jana said:


> Did anyone claim that from our Side ?
> 
> 1. No we do not claim it as our part so your argument is weakest one here.



But you still occupy 1/3rd of Kashmir, and even have "gifted" some part of the territory to China, territory which is not Pakistani as per any international law.




Jana said:


> We are opened to all options including Independence for Kashmir.



But you havent granted independence to P..O..K




Jana said:


> We are ready to accept the result of a plebiscite if held under international bodies. Its India that is afraid to lose its point of view on Kashmir.




I can guarentee, pakistan will not accept any plebiscite if its result is in favour of India



Jana said:


> We have every right to speak for People of a Disputed country Kashmirt as much as you have right to speak for Palestinians.



You have every right to speak on anything you want, it does not necessarily mean that you are right.






Jana said:


> Since this comment of yours is based on frustration over quote of an Indian politician hence i dont consider it worth replying



Ohh, you just replied on that

BTW, would you mind if I quote statments of some Indian politicians regarding his views on Pakistan??

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## footmarks

Fasih Khan said:


> *In that land of Consciously Dead, One brave lady with the Truth is targeted by Cowards. It's like one Human in hundreds of thousands Inhumans being targeted for being humane. *



Are you talking about Taslima Nasreen??


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## Spring Onion

footmarks said:


> Are you talking about Taslima Nasreen??



Insulting a religion and speaking on political issues are two different things.

i am sure the day she abused hunuman you will not call her courageous


So dont try to act like a naive person


----------



## JEAN_CLUADE

Jana said:


> Insulting a religion and speaking on political issues are two different things.
> 
> i am sure the day she abused hunuman you will not call her courageous
> 
> 
> So dont try to act like a naive person



can pakistan free balochistan ????


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## Minimalist

Jana said:


> i am sure the day she abused hunuman you will not call her courageous



Ever heard of M.F. hussein???? He did much more than just abuse.


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## Spring Onion

footmarks said:


> But you still occupy 1/3rd of Kashmir, and even have "gifted" some part of the territory to China, territory which is not Pakistani as per any international law.



Plebiscite will take into account all parts so just get your head ready for holding it.





> But you havent granted independence to P..O..K



You come up with same status for IOK atleast and i will talk on our side then otherwise AJK has own flag own PM, President.


Lets Indians agree atleast for same system till any plebiscite is held.





> I can guarentee, pakistan will not accept any plebiscite if its result is in favour of India



i can say the same for India it was in our favour. But a referendum held under International bodies without any influence of India and Pakistan then there will be NO excuse for anyone





> You have every right to speak on anything you want, it does not necessarily mean that you are right.



Prove her wrong instead of saying she is loser etc etc 




> BTW, would you mind if I quote statments of some Indian politicians regarding his views on Pakistan??




We all know what INDIAN politicians say about Pakistan so it doesnt affect me you can come up with as many quotes as you want


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## Spring Onion

Minimalist said:


> Ever heard of M.F. hussein???? He did much more than just abuse.



And he is forced to live outside India uptill now at his old age. he is as much haunted as taslima so what is the difference you are talking here on part of Indians.


We have discussed his case alot in the past and you know you lost arguments there even.

So better come back to the topic


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## Spring Onion

JEAN_CLUADE said:


> can pakistan free balochistan ????



Wrong comparison here.

Balochistan is part of Pakistan under International Laws Kashmir is Not part of India under these laws.

Period


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## Minimalist

Jana said:


> And he is forced to live outside India uptill now at his old age. he is as much haunted as taslima so what is the difference you are talking here on part of Indians.
> 
> 
> We have discussed his case alot in the past and you know you lost arguments there even.
> 
> So better come back to the topic



He has escaped India because he fears for his life because of some fringe elements not because the state has banished him from coming or something.

The GoI, officially, is and was on his side.

There's an official behavious of state and there's the behaviour of fringe elements whom the state strives to repel.

I hope you do understand the difference.


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## Novice09

Minimalist said:


> *No she can't...she's a Hindu.*
> 
> So much for Pakistani friends speaking of 'rights'.



I was unaware of that

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## JEAN_CLUADE

Jana said:


> Wrong comparison here.
> 
> Balochistan is part of Pakistan under International Laws Kashmir is Not part of India under these laws.
> 
> Period



legally kashmir is part of india ...according to kashmir accession treaty......go get your knowledge right......and you go on saying about kashmiri people being killed..........tell me what about baloch people..pakistan terrorist army kills baloch freedom fighters.....wat about them......are they not humans....b4 speakin about kashmir talk about baloch......


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## Novice09

footmarks said:


> Are you talking about Taslima Nasreen??



bang on target


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## Minimalist

Novice09 said:


> I was unaware of that



Don't worry my friend, you're not alone. Many people here on PDF do not know many things about their own country and its official policy.


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## footmarks

Jana said:


> And he is forced to live outside India uptill now at his old age. he is as much haunted as taslima so what is the difference you are talking here on part of Indians.



He is forced to live outside of India not by GOI, but by "Non-state actors". you, being a pakistani, can easily fathom the difference, dont you?

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## Spring Onion

Minimalist said:


> Don't worry my friend, you're not alone. Many people here on PDF do not know many things about their own country and its official policy.



i am amazed at your ignorant about Arundhati. lolzzz she is NOT Hindu.


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## footmarks

Jana said:


> Plebiscite will take into account all parts so just get your head ready for holding it.



But you didnt answer the question. let me rephrase it - Kashmir is not a part of Pakistan by any international law, still pakistan gave away part of its territory to China. Who gave you that right?


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## Markus

Jana said:


> i am amazed at your ignorant about Arundhati. lolzzz she is NOT Hindu.



Her mother was Christian and father Bengali.

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## footmarks

Jana said:


> i am amazed at your ignorant about Arundhati. lolzzz she is NOT Hindu.



She cant be. anyway, is she a muslim? if not, she cant be pakistan's PM or president.


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## Spring Onion

Markus said:


> Her mother was Christian and father Bengali.



Anyone's faith is defined by what he/she follows not what her father or mother does.


anyway that is irrelevant to the topic as far as we and the world is concerned may be her faith is relevant to Indians to sail their boat against her


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## Minimalist

Markus said:


> Her mother was Christian and father Bengali.



And she has adopted the religion of her father which makes her a hindu and hence ineligible to become the PM/President of Pakistan.

Again, speaks loads about the rights of minorities in our 'champoin of human rights' neighbouring country.

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## Markus

Jana said:


> Anyone's faith is defined by what he/she follows not what her father or mother does.
> 
> 
> anyway that is irrelevant to the topic as far as we and the world is concerned may be her faith is relevant to Indians to sail their boat against her



But then how can you say with so much conviction that she is not a hindu.

Proof?


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## Spring Onion

Minimalist said:


> And she has adopted the religion of her father which makes her a hindu and hence ineligible to become the PM/President of Pakistan.
> 
> Again, speaks loads about the rights of minorities in our 'champoin of human rights' neighbouring country.



 Patrician first you Indians need to make up your mind about her faith as you guys are sailing in different boats at different foras.


Secondly Pakistani governance laws have NOTHING to do with Arundhati neither this thread.


All i can say that bhartis are short of arguments on the topic


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## footmarks

footmarks said:


> But you didnt answer the question. let me rephrase it - Kashmir is not a part of Pakistan by any international law, still pakistan gave away part of its territory to China. Who gave you that right?



@Jana: Dont run away.


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## LaBong

What has Arundhuti's religion to do with the topic in hand?


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## Minimalist

Abir said:


> What has Arundhuti's religion has to do with the topic in hand?



Go through some earlier posts and you'll know.


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## afriend

Positives from her statements are the same shows the tolerance of indian democracy and social fabric. You can critise the system and get away with it. However i wish the same hold true for religions too.

However she have taken a non populist views in almost all issues. Her views are all polarized and doesn't have a balanced view. Which is why, her views are not taken that seriously.


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## Ganga

The income tax department must also raid the residence of Arundhati .There is a high probability that she gets paid for making such moronic comments.


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## Pratik

*Arundhati Roy is a cousin of Pranoy ray,ND tv owner whose wife is also the sister of the communist chief Prakash Karat's wife.*

These guys belong to the communist clubs of different hues and their opinion should seen those parlance.


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## Zeluvaa

Why are people giving importance to her statement bewilders me. What she says is not going to make difference in the slightest bit. All she is looking for is more publicity and attention.....and unfortunately she is getting it. 

*I would love to ask her though, what is she doing to help the "bhooke-nange Hindustani people"? Never seen her open her mouth in regards to helping such people OR doing anything to help poor people either.*


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## Urbanized Greyhound

The same "Bookhe -naange hindustan" provides 100 crore developmental packages to the Kashmir state ....way above what Pakistan is able to provide for AK ......

Arundhuti Roy has been an abuser of the Freedom of speech in India for a long long time ....but this is surely crossing the line here.......


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## sasuke

I would say she is in her hunt for nobel peace prize ...!!!


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## Typhoon

^^^^ Do you think people at the Jury for Nobel Prize are retarded enough to award her or any-other lunatic with this prestigious prize? Your Nehru never got this award, is one such example, though he went ahead and caused more destruction to India than Pakistan, but still Peace Committee never even considered him.


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## prototype

Now some people were criticizing China for the detention of Liu Xiaobo(including me),his crime-misuse of freedom of speech

China was called a miserable pseudo super power who was apprehensive of the political will of a single man

Now actually what Arundhati roy is doing here,sometime i think,we should have some rules like China

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## vandemataram

Markus said:


> Arundhati Roy is a novelist/essayist who has now turned to writing comic books and fictional stories.
> 
> Maybe inspired by JK Rowling.



Some interesting aspects...

a) These maoist sympathisers are nowhere to be seen when 170 people, citizens of India, who do not have anything to do with anything perished as a result of a well crafted sabotage conducted in case of the Gyaneshwari express. 

The whole of India saw it with eyes wide open with anger, horror and a deep sense of anger, what these people who claim themselves to be the messiah of the "Other India" and "Poor India", have done to these innocent people who were killed in the sabotage. No, you will not see these people raising their voices. These "High Circuit" "Cocktail" drinking people will only be seen in certain circumstances when they sense and see an opportunity to challenge the writ of the Indian state

b) Syed Ali Shah Geelani and his cohorts dare not open their respective traps across the Line of Control. It is a well known and a documented fact that the voices of the people and the media in the so-called "Azad Kashmir" stands trampled underfoot.

So they turn their repsonse towards India, because they perceive it to be a soft state and additionally they think since the Constitution of India has given a fundamenetal right to its citizens of expressing their dissent, they can be taken for a ride and the whole nation would stand on their knees and cant do anything about it

c) Geelani and Umer Farooq have lost all credibility in the minds of its fellow citizens whom they claim to be leading. They have not won elections nor are they populist leaders, corrupt or otherwise

d) All those people who contunually harp about the atrocities of the Indian armed forces in Kashmir, should do well to keep in mind that Sajjad Lone and Shabnam Lone's father was not killed by the Indian security forces. They were killed by their own brethren from across the Line of Control. So any move instigated by these people should be highlighted to public that they do not represent popular views on Kashmir

e) The ongoing Intifada in Kashmir is the result of these peoples' efforts, the plight of the Kashmiri Hindus need to be highlighted to the global media. If these people are so confident then they should sderiously think of participating in elections. If they represent the popular opinion of thr Kashmiris then they should easily win the elections. But they do not have the balls to do so. We all know the case of Sajjad Lone and how he got defeated.

f) Serious efforts should be made by the UPA Government to initiate action action on the separatists and Maoists who were present that day on the dais including Arundhati Roy and charge them with treason, inciting violence, instigating communal hatred and sedition. The Indian Constitution is very clear about Sec 124A of the Indian Penal Code. The UPA Government needs to show some balls.

g) All the naysayers here and outside need to be reminded strongly that the Government of India seriously follows a position vascillating between use of Hard and Soft powers. At no point in time, the message should go out that the GoI is weak and is unable to take coercive actions and hard power to establish the writ of the Constitution and the state

h) The message should go out loud and clear that there is "NO" "Freedom Struggle" going on in Kashmir and the Indian citizens need to sensitized about this aspect. Let there be no doubt. It is only the instigation of the separatist leaders who have made this issue religious with the blessings of our western neighbors. It is only the *miniscule* Sunni Muslims of the valley who are creating and fometing trouble. It is time to quell and remove any vestige of such a movement.

If at all the Government of India so wishes, it should include all the other relevant parties to the Kashmir dispute to come to the table for negotiations and that includes:

People of Pakistan O c c u p i e d Kashmir, The Kauls, the Razdans, the Kachroos and the Uzuwaal's of Jammu, the Buddhists of Ladakh and of course the Shias of Kargil.

Message must go out that anything which comes up without each and every aspect mentioned above is a NON STARTER and NULL AND VOID

h) Finally, *Kashmir can only acceed to Pakistan or assert freedom **if and only if *(friends across the border please note) the Government of India *desires* so. Nothing, absolutely nothing (that includes proxy wars and direct military action) can make Government of India give up on Kashmir * *

So let us keep things civil and see what steps the Government takes to assuage the fears of the Indian Citizens


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## StingRoy

Typhoon said:


> ^^^^ Do you think people at the Jury for Nobel Prize are retarded enough to award her or any-other lunatic with this prestigious prize? Your Nehru never got this award, is one such example, though he went ahead and caused more destruction to India than Pakistan, but still Peace Committee never even considered him.



Actually after Obama got the peace prize... I have high hopes of winning a Nobel peace prize as well. 
Comparing the greats with her is not worthy. Even Mahatma Gandhi didn't get a peace prize. Maybe she wants to release a new book and thats why trying to create some chatter about here in the circle.


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## INDIAN007

This women support Kashmiri seperatist

she criticized INDIAs nuclear weaponization

she raised questions on 2001 Indian Parliament attack,She had called for the death sentence of Mohammad Afzal to be stayed while a parliamentary enquiry into these questions are conducted and denounced press coverage of the trial....

She even raised question on 26/11

Roy has criticized Government's armed actions against the Naxalite-Maoist insurgents in India....calling it as WAR ON POOREST PEOPLE OF COUNTRY...........

why is she so much ANTI - INDIAN


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## majesticpankaj

she is a bigot of highest order, she was crying when azaad (a Maoist) was killed by security agencies because she thinks it was a cold blood murder. but she does not cry when this bastards maoist kills security forces in the same manner. what a shameless lady.


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## INDIAN007

Aur ek baat.........jab kashmiri logo ko mara zata hai ........ya fir Naxalites ko maara zata hai.........to yeh HUman Rights wale aa zate hai mooh uthake....par zab ek naxalvadi ek CRPF officer ko marta hai [ dantewadi massacre ] ....aur zab kashmiri militants hamare INDIAN army ke zaawano ko marte hai ....tab ye human rights walo ko yaha pe human abuse hua hai wo nahi dekhta.......


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## Trichy

She also famous for supporting mavoist/ULFA/FFK, by showing im here by getting a news article often...

Democracy @ its BEST..

If its in china/Myanmar/N.Korea/Iran, may be even in US/EU/PAK they will be in their grave now itself

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## T90TankGuy

Jana said:


> She is indeed a good journalist even better than many in ToI, HT, and so on.
> 
> And my dear if Indians can take NFP. Fasizaka type people as journalists who are even NOT even authors or writers in the first place then Arundhati is atleast a working professional journalists visiting conflict areas where even Indian army fears to step in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wrong stupid remark and notion by those who are afraid of speaking about ills in Indian society and all those insurgencies.



forgive me but a good journalist gives an un biased and factual news . which part of her comments are unbiased?


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## IBRIS

*Geelani, Arundhati may be booked under sedition charge*

A go ahead to file a case of sedition against hardline Kashmiri separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani and activist Arundhati Roy has been given to Delhi Police by Union Home Ministry. However, it is far from clear now whether the police will proceed with the case although legal advice received by it says that a case has been made out under Section 124 of IPC which applies to cases where disaffection against the State is advocated.

The police is now mulling over possible ramifications of proceeding with the case and is likely to seek political clearance to go ahead.

Delhi Police is said to be having some hesitation on going ahead with filing the case because once registered then arrests would have to be effected of those named in the FIR.

Officials of the Delhi Police met Union Home Ministry officials and had a detailed discussions in this regard earlier in the day, the sources said.

An unfazed Geelani said in Kashmir that there were already 90 cases have been registered against him. "I have 90 FIRs registered against me already, this will be 91st," he said.

The legal opinion of the Home Ministry was received by Delhi Police yesterday giving a go ahead to Delhi Police for registering a case against firebrand separatist leader Geelani and Roy besides others for purportedly giving "hate speeches" at a seminar held in New Delhi last week.

The legal department had favoured registering a case against them under Section 124-A of Indian Penal Code which states "whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise, brings or attempts to bring into hatred or contempt, or excites or attempts to excite disaffection towards" the State and can be sentenced to five years of rigorous imprisonment.

The seminar, in which Geelani was also speaking, had triggered sharp comments from the BJP.

BJP leader Arun Jaitley had accused the government of "looking the other way" when a number of separatist groups met at a conference to instigate session and to say that India cannot be one and must be broken.

However, rejecting the BJP leader's charge, Home Minister P Chidambaram had said Delhi police will take action in accordance with law over the speeches made by Kashmiri separatist leader Syed Ali Shah and others at a seminar on October 21.

At the convention on 'Azadi--The Only Way', Geelani shared the stage with writer Roy and pro-Maoist leader Vara Vara Rao among others. Geelani was heckled by the audience with one of them throwing a shoe.


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## jayron

Frankenstein said:


> I am talking about blasphemous references on Islam, which is common these days, you wud never understand now wud you



Pakistan's blasphemy law is an extreme one. arresting some one for creating social unrest is different. but your law carries a death sentence and it can be misused and it has been misused. You cannot equate with laws against sedition which might carry a few months behind bars at the max. 
In India blasphemy against Hinduism is quite common. some political parties have it as a tool. But they do not tolerate blasphemy against other religions.


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## twoplustwoisfour

Note to Ms. Roy and Mr. Geelani:

If at first you don't secede, cry, cry, and cry again.


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## Subramanian

Jana said:


> 1. Kashmir is occupied so there is no question of inciting for breaking India as its not part of India according to international Laws.
> 
> 
> 2. Since Maoist infested areas are part of India according to International Laws so in this case if Arundhati advocates separatism then you can come up with this blame on her for breaking India.
> 
> 
> 3. BUT as far as the world goes and have seen Arundhati is not speaking for separation for Maoist areas.
> 
> 4. Arundhati is speaking about the plight of Maoist areas and why and for what they are struggling.
> 
> 
> 5. You and your other Indian fellows here tell me what do you take Maoist for ? being Terrorists? or otherwise ?



what is international law?i dont get it.Who punishes you and how when you break it?you keep mentioning international law many times,can you tell what is that law and when was it put in use and where?

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## Fighter488

*Roy: I spoke against brutality​*
*Srinagar/New Delhi, Breaking her silence, Booker prize winner and self-appointed right activist Arunathi Roy on Tuesday said she pities the nation that tries to jail its writers for speaking their mind while communal elements, rapists, murderers and corporate scamsters went scot free.*


Reacting to moves by the Centre to slap sedition charges on her, she refuted allegations that her speeches on Kashmir were seditious.

*"I write this from Srinagar, Kashmir. This morning's papers say that I may be arrested on charges of sedition for what I have said at recent public meetings on Kashmir. I said what millions of people here say every day. I said what I, as well as other commentators have written and said for years," *Arundhati said in the statement from Srinagar.
She claimed that she had called for justice in her speeches and accused the Indian state of indulging "in one of the most brutal military occupations in the world".

"*Anybody who cares to read the transcripts of my speeches will see that they were fundamentally a call for justice.* I spoke about justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal military occupations in the world; for Kashmiri Pandits who live out the tragedy of having been driven out of their homeland; for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore; for the Indian poor who pay the price of this occupation in material ways and who are now learning to live in the terror of what is becoming a police state,"  she said.



"*Yesterday I traveled to Shopian*, the apple-town in South Kashmir which had remained closed for 47 days last year in protest against the brutal **** and murder of Asiya and Nilofer, the young women whose bodies were found in a shallow stream near their homes and whose murderers have still not been brought to justice. I met Shakeel, who is Nilofer's husband and Asiya's brother. We sat in a circle of people crazed with grief and anger who had lost hope that they would ever get 'insaf' -- justice -- from India, and now believed that Azadi -- freedom -- was their only hope. I met young stonepelters who had been shot through their eyes. I traveled with a young man who told me how three of his friends, teenagers in Anantnag district, had been taken into custody and had their finger-nails pulled out as punishment for throwing stones," said Arundhati.

She said that whatever she said in Srinagar on Monday and at the convention on 'Azadi - The Only Way' in New Delhi came from love and pride.

"*In the papers some have accused me of giving 'hate-speeches', of wanting India to break up. On the contrary, what I say comes from love and pride. It comes from not wanting people to be killed, raped, imprisoned or have their finger-nails pulled out in order to force them to say they are Indians*," she said. She also accused the Government of trying to muzzle her voice.



Meanwhile, terming the remarks made by Hurriyat hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani and writer Arundhati Roy at a seminar here as "most unfortunate", Law Minister M Veerappa Moily on Tuesday said freedom of speech cannot violate patriotic sentiments of the people.

"*Yes, there is freedom of speech...it can't violate the patriotic sentiments of the people*," he said.

While terming their remarks as "most unfortunate", the Law Minister said in India there are people who support one view or the other since the time of Ramayana. On BJP's allegations that government remained silent on the developments, he said, "Politics cannot be mixed with statements which border sedition."

Asked whether his ministry had received a request from the Home Ministry seeking its legal opinion on whether the two can be booked for sedition, the Law Minister said, "I was away for three days...I have not seen the file so far".

*The remarks made by Geelani and Roy at the seminar had evoked a strong reaction from the BJP with its leader Arun Jaitley accusing the government of "looking the other way" when a number of separatist groups met at a conference to instigate sedition*.



Arundhati had whipped up a storm by stating rather vocally that Kashmir was never a part of India.

The Jammu and Kashmir Police is looking into the controversial speech of Arundhati Roy on Jammu and Kashmir's accession to India and does not rule out taking action against the high profile writer and activist. In fact, sources in the government said that a case under 124-A under Indian Penal Code for sedition is possible against Hurriyat Conference Chairman Syed Ali Shah Geelani and writer Arundhati Roy for their anti-India speeches.

Highly-placed sources in the state home department said the *transcript of the speech *delivered yesterday at a seminar 'Wither Kashmir: Freedom or enslavement' organised by Coalition of Civil Societies (CCS) here *has been handed over to the legal department for examination.*

Meanwhile, the law officers of Delhi Police have concluded that there is a case for booking writer Arundhati Roy and hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani for sedition under Section 124A of the Indian Penal Code. But the decision on whether to actually take action will be made only after further consultations at the highest level, sources in the Home Ministry said.

Delhi Police sources said they had sought legal opinion on the nature of charges, if any, against Geelani and Roy, and clearance from the Home Ministry.
If legal opinion favours registering a case against the Booker prize winner, the state police would register the same, sources said. Roy is alleged to have questioned Jammu and Kashmir's accession to India.



"*Kashmir has never been an integral part of India. It is a historical fact. Even the Indian government has accepted this*," she said, and also alleged that New Delhi became a "colonising power" soon after its independence from British rule.

This is not the first time the writer has run into rough weather over her speeches. Earlier, *her pro-Naxal write up and speeches had forced Chattisgarh Police to seriously think of booking her for waging war against the country*.

On another occasion, Biswajit Mitra, a former BSP leader, had accused her of supporting naxals and demanded action against her following which Director General of Chattisgarh Police Vishwa Ranjan had asked the state legal department to give their opinion.

Roy has come under criticism for her article on naxals -- "Gandhian with guns". The Chief of Chattisgarh Police had said in April this year, "I do not know whether Arundhati Roy has been wrongly influenced by others or she is actually a mole in the civil society. How do I know?"



*Cong wants Arundhati to withdraw J&K statement​*
A senior Congress leader asked noted writer and activist Arundhati Roy to withdraw her statement on Kashmir, saying it was 'contrary to historical facts' and could mislead the nation and the international community.

Reacting to the comment made by the writer at a seminar in Kashmir on Sunday, AICC member Satya Prakash Malaviya said, "It was really surprising to see such an irresponsible statement from someone who is one of the country's best-known writers.

"*She must withdraw her statement which is contrary to historical facts and could mislead the nation as well as the international community*," he said. The Booker Prize winning author had said "Kashmir has never been an integral part of India. It is a historical fact. Even the Indian government has accepted this."

The former Union Minister said that Roy "would do better to brush up her knowledge of history and know that the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir had acceded to the Union of India after its erstwhile ruler Maharaja Hari Singh duly signed the Instrument of Accession on October 26, 1947.

"And the state, consequently has become as much an integral part of India as all the other erstwhile princely states have."

Source: Agencies


Roy: I spoke against brutality -  National News ? News ? MSN India


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## foxbat

Jana said:


> 1. Kashmir is occupied so there is no question of inciting for breaking India as its not part of India according to international Laws.



Bogey.. UN also recognizes J&K as administered by India and IPC is applicable in the state. Also Arundhiti is not a resident of J&K state. So the whole International law piece is cr@p


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## Awesome

Minimalist said:


> *Section 124A of the Indian Penal Code defines the offence of sedition as follows: &#8220;Sedition. Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise, brings or attempts to bring into hatred or contempt, or excites or attempts to excite disaffection towards, the Government established by law in India, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, to which fine may be added, or with imprisonment which may extend to three years, to which fine may be added, or with fine&#8221;. But Explanation 3 says &#8220;Comments expressing disapprobation of the administrative or other action of the Government without exciting or attempting to excite hatred, contempt or disaffection, do not constitute an offence under this section&#8221;.*
> 
> These guys must immediately be charged with sedition and put into jail for inciting people to break the country apart.
> 
> Where the hell is GoI???? Sleeping??


Bhooke-Nange Hindustan slogan is not of A Roy, but of the Kashmiri riotiers

"Jaan se Pyara Pakistan, bhooka nanga Hindustan". What will you do, hang all of Kashmir since you folks claim them all to be your people?


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## Spring Onion

majesticpankaj said:


> she is a bigot of highest order, she was crying when azaad (a Maoist) was killed by security agencies because she thinks it was a cold blood murder. but she does not cry when this bastards maoist kills security forces in the same manner. what a shameless lady.



No she is not.
And she was right because Indian forces Killed Azad (Maoist leader) at Point Blank after trapping him for talks.

It is sad that he came to negotiation table and Indians once again proving hypocrites killed him at Point Blank in custody.


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## Spring Onion

Pratik said:


> *Arundhati Roy is a cousin of Pranoy ray,ND tv owner whose wife is also the sister of the communist chief Prakash Karat's wife.*
> 
> These guys belong to the communist clubs of different hues and their opinion should seen those parlance.



Communists in India are Indians. Right?

What is wrong with communists then ?


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## Blue Sword

This feeling is totally biased. She is on Nobel prize run. or want cheap publicity.
She has feeling for separatist but she can not feel what has happened to those thousands people and to their family that are killed by the militant infiltrated to India from other side of Country.


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## Awesome

Blue Sword said:


> This feeling is totally biased. She is on Nobel price run. or want cheap publicity.
> She has feeling for separatist but she can not feel what has happened to those thousands people and to their family that are killed by the militant infiltrated to India from other side of Country.


Militants kill Indian army people, which should be lauded, not condemned.

Condemnation should be given to the GoI who is sending your army people into harms way. Your people are forcefully in Kashmir, Kashmiris are not coming to New Delhi and killing your people.


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## Von Hölle

Asim Aquil said:


> Militants kill Indian army people, which should be lauded, not condemned.
> 
> Condemnation should be given to the GoI who is sending your army people into harms way. Your people are forcefully in Kashmir, Kashmiris are not coming to New Delhi and killing your people.



Please spare us your skewed narrative.. Indian army has as much right of being in J&K as Pakistan army has Pak admin Kashmir or for that matter in Gilgit-Baltistan.


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## KS

Jana said:


> No she is not.
> And she was right *because Indian forces Killed Azad (Maoist leader) at Point Blank after trapping him for talks.
> *
> It is sad that he came to negotiation table and Indians once again proving hypocrites killed him at Point Blank in custody.



I dont know where you get these news from 

Azad was not coming for talks.That propaganda was created by the Maoists sympathiser Vara Vara Rao and by the journalist who had gone to meet him.

And second he was not shot at PBR.There was an encounter and he was killed in that.His pistol along with the bullets fired have been recovered.
*
And tell,if PA got a chance like this with Muslim Khan (he is also a spokesperson of a terrorist organisation, Azad's contemporary) what will they do??*


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## Blue Sword

Asim Aquil said:


> Militants kill Indian army people, which should be lauded, not condemned.
> 
> Condemnation should be given to the GoI who is sending your army people into harms way.* Your people are forcefully in Kashmir,* Kashmiris are not coming to New Delhi and killing your people.



Kashmir is always a part of India. *Where from the term came forcefully*? The king then signed agreement with India not with Pakistan that is what History says. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Year 1947 and 1948
Further information: Kashmir conflict, Timeline of the Kashmir conflict, and Indo-Pakistani War of 1947
The prevailing religions by district in the 1901 Census of the Indian Empire.

Ranbir Singh's grandson Hari Singh, who had ascended the throne of Kashmir in 1925, was the reigning monarch in 1947 at the conclusion of British rule of the subcontinent and the subsequent partition of the British Indian Empire into the newly independent Union of India and the Dominion of Pakistan. As parties to the partition process, both countries had agreed that the rulers of princely states would be given the right to opt for either Pakistan or India or&#8212;in special cases&#8212;to remain independent. Kashmir's population was overall 77 per cent Muslim but with internal areas of non-Muslim majority. It shared a boundary with both India and Pakistan. Pakistan anticipated that the Maharaja would accede to Pakistan, when the British paramountcy ended on 14&#8211;15 August. When he hesitated to do this, Pakistan launched a military attack disguised with a front of guerrilla infiltration of Pashtun tribals meant to frighten its ruler into submission. Instead the Maharaja appealed to Mountbatten for assistance, and the Governor-General agreed on the condition that the ruler accede to India." Once the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, "Indian soldiers entered Kashmir and drove the Pakistani-sponsored irregulars from all but a small section of the state. 

Source : Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## GUNNER

Karthic Sri said:


> *
> And tell,if PA got a chance like this with Muslim Khan (he is also a spokesperson of a terrorist organisation, Azad's contemporary) what will they do??*



He ain't anymore. He's been in prison for some months now. Pick some other example !


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## GUNNER

*Hardline Bhartiya Janata Party leader Ram Jethmalani says dialogue with Pakistan is a must to resolve the disputed Kashmir issue*.

His remarks came in support of Indian writer Arundhati Roy's speech in which she said that Kashmir has never been an integral part of India.

*The BJP leader says that dialogue with Pakistan is compulsory under 1972 Simla agreement to resolve the Kashmir dispute.*

His remarks have embarrassed the BJP which immediately distanced itself by saying that these were Jethmalani's personal views.

*Meanwhile Indian media quoting Home Ministry sources say that the government is considering to book the writer for making seditious remarks.*

Arundhati Roy has criticised the move by regretting that the nation has to silence its writers who speak up their minds.


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## Dash

This lady has no country as told by her, then why will she say that Kashmir need to be freed from India. where will she live then...Mars???

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## KS

GUNNER said:


> He ain't anymore. He's been in prison for some months now. Pick some other example !



Fine yaar....I was just using an analogy.

Who knows maybe the CRPF team tried to apprehend him,but in the ensuing encounter he was killed.

*The main point is,CPI-Maoist is a terrorist organisation banned under Indian Terror Laws and he as the spokesperson of such an outfit is a terrorist.So there is no need to sympathise with him*

Just before he was killed ,his organisation killed 170 civilians in a massive train-derailment - one among many instances where civiliansa are continually murdered by these maoists

*p.s,.:* I personally think he should have been aprrehended and must be forced to spell out their locations.But who knows ,the CRPF might have tried that also/


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## garibnawaz

greatsequence said:


> What about Asma Jahangir and Hina jilani.



Add two more names. Altaf Hussein and Ansaar Burney.

GB


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## Spring Onion

Karthic Sri said:


> I dont know where you get these news from
> 
> Azad was not coming for talks.That propaganda was created by the Maoists sympathiser Vara Vara Rao and by the journalist who had gone to meet him.
> 
> And second he was not shot at PBR.There was an encounter and he was killed in that.His pistol along with the bullets fired have been recovered.



*
Maoist leader Azad shot at point-blank range: report*




*Maoist leader Cherukuri Rajkumar alias Azad was shot at point-blank range by the Andhra Pradesh Police and not in an encounter, a news-magazine has claimed.
*
*"The post-mortem conducted on the body of Maoist leader Azad categorically establishes that he was killed at close range with a handgun in a fake encounter by the Andhra Pradesh Police on July 1 at Adilabad," the news-magazine claimed in a report.*

It claimed to have accessed the post-mortem report of Azad on which it sought the opinion of three experts in three different cities.

*"Three leading forensic medicine and wound ballistic experts, who were given copies of Azad's post-mortem report without revealing the identity of the deceased, have come to the conclusion that the victim was shot from a distance of 7.5 cms or even less," the magazine said in a press release.*

The post-mortem report records a 1-cm oval-shaped wound just a few inches above the left nipple where the bullet entered, tore through this heart and exited from the back just between the ninth and the tenth vertebrae, it said. 

Maoist leader Azad shot at point-blank range: report




> And tell,if PA got a chance like this with Muslim Khan (he is also a spokesperson of a terrorist organisation, Azad's contemporary) what will they do??[/B]



Why you need comparison with others to legtimize something in India in the first place.

Secondly we have declared TTP as terrorist outfit so we have no issue in killing terrorists on the other hand Indians are in a fix you guys either should declare Azad and Maoists as terrorists or dont kill them on different excuses.


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## Awesome

Blue Sword said:


> Kashmir is always a part of India. *Where from the term came forcefully*? The king then signed agreement with India not with Pakistan that is what History says.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Year 1947 and 1948
> Further information: Kashmir conflict, Timeline of the Kashmir conflict, and Indo-Pakistani War of 1947
> The prevailing religions by district in the 1901 Census of the Indian Empire.
> 
> Ranbir Singh's grandson Hari Singh, who had ascended the throne of Kashmir in 1925, was the reigning monarch in 1947 at the conclusion of British rule of the subcontinent and the subsequent partition of the British Indian Empire into the newly independent Union of India and the Dominion of Pakistan. As parties to the partition process, both countries had agreed that the rulers of princely states would be given the right to opt for either Pakistan or India or&#8212;in special cases&#8212;to remain independent. Kashmir's population was overall 77 per cent Muslim but with internal areas of non-Muslim majority. It shared a boundary with both India and Pakistan. Pakistan anticipated that the Maharaja would accede to Pakistan, when the British paramountcy ended on 14&#8211;15 August. When he hesitated to do this, Pakistan launched a military attack disguised with a front of guerrilla infiltration of Pashtun tribals meant to frighten its ruler into submission. Instead the Maharaja appealed to Mountbatten for assistance, and the Governor-General agreed on the condition that the ruler accede to India." Once the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, "Indian soldiers entered Kashmir and drove the Pakistani-sponsored irregulars from all but a small section of the state.
> 
> Source : Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Kashmir has never been part of India, UN resolutions says so. It is disputed territory

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## garibnawaz

Asim Aquil said:


> Kashmiris are not coming to New Delhi and killing your people.



Ok. I am convinced.

2001 Parliament attack was carried out by Jamaicans.

2001 Indian Parliament attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2002 Raghunath temple attacks were carried out by Haitians.

2002 Raghunath temple attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2002 Akshardham Temple Attack was carried out by Hollywood actors Will Smith and Martin Lawrence. This was masterminded by Michael Bay and there will be an upcoming movie named Bad Boys III.

Akshardham Temple attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GB

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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> Communists in India are Indians. Right?
> 
> What is wrong with communists then ?



TTP are Pakistani's right?

Whats wrong with Taliban's then?

MQM in Pakistan are Pakistani's right?

Whats wrong with Altaf Bhai criticizing the partition then?

GB

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## garibnawaz

Asim Aquil said:


> UN resolutions says so. It is disputed territory



Which means it is not a part of Pakistan either. 

GB

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## Awesome

garibnawaz said:


> Ok. I am convinced.
> 
> 2001 Parliament attack was carried out by Jamaicans.
> 
> 2001 Indian Parliament attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2002 Raghunath temple attacks were carried out by Haitians.
> 
> 2002 Raghunath temple attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2002 Akshardham Temple Attack was carried out by Hollywood actors Will Smith and Martin Lawrence. This was masterminded by Michael Bay and there will be an upcoming movie named Bad Boys III.
> 
> Akshardham Temple attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> GB


So are they not allowed to attack you back? You can leave Kashmir if you don't like the attacks.


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## Markus

Asim Aquil said:


> So are they not allowed to attack you back? You can leave Kashmir if you don't like the attacks.



UN Resolutions do not nullify the Instrument of Accession signed by Hari SIngh with India.

And there are several preconditions for the UN resolutions to be implemented, I think we have discussed this a million times already in other threads.

Bottomline: Until UN resolutions are implemented, the Instrument of accession stands.

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## garibnawaz

Asim Aquil said:


> So are they not allowed to attack you back?



Now you are changing the discussion.

First you said Kashmiri's are not attacking Indians in Delhi. When I proved it you are asking if they are not allowed to attack us?

Let me answer.

Their feaud is with GOI and Indian Armed Forces. If they want to fight, then fight with these elements.

Killing innocent Indians of all castes,religions etc. makes them no different than the Indian Government or Armed Forces hence the case itself becomes invalid.



> You can leave Kashmir if you don't like the attacks.



Even if we leave Kashmir there will be attacks. There is always something.

Today Kashmir, tommorrow Junagarh, day after Hyderabad, Khalistan and it goes on and on.

We ain't leaving Kashmir. Not in this lifetime.

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## RamGorur

Fighter488 said:


> "I write this from *Srinagar, Kashmir*. This morning's papers say that I may be arrested on charges of sedition for what I have said at recent public meetings on Kashmir. I said what millions of people *here* say every day. I said what I, as well as other commentators have written and said for years," Arundhati said in the statement from Srinagar. She claimed that she had called for justice in her speeches and accused the Indian state of indulging "in one of the most brutal military occupations in the world".


What a tragic fall for a gifted one-novel-wonder.

Indian Penal Code is not applicable in Jammu & Kashmir. So sedition committed in J & K can't be booked under that Act. The same, however is punishable if committed anywhere else in India. If what she has said in Delhi falls under the definition of sedition as per Sec 124A of IPC, then she has broken the law. Simple.


> I met young stonepelters who had been shot through their eyes.


...and lived to tell her their tales? Paper bullets?

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## KS

Jana said:


> Maoist leader Azad shot at point-blank range:* report*
> 
> Maoist leader Cherukuri Rajkumar alias Azad was shot at point-blank range by the Andhra Pradesh Police and not in an encounter, *a news-magazine has claimed.*
> 
> The post-mortem conducted on the body of Maoist leader Azad categorically establishes that he was killed at close range with a handgun in a fake encounter by the Andhra Pradesh Police on July 1 at Adilabad," *the news-magazine claimed in a report*.
> 
> It claimed to have accessed the post-mortem report of Azad on which it sought the opinion of three experts in three different cities.
> 
> "Three leading forensic medicine and wound ballistic experts, who were given copies of Azad's post-mortem report without revealing the identity of the deceased, have come to the conclusion that the victim was shot from a distance of 7.5 cms or even less," the magazine said in a press release.
> 
> The post-mortem report records a 1-cm oval-shaped wound just a few inches above the left nipple where the bullet entered, tore through this heart and exited from the back just between the ninth and the tenth vertebrae, it said.
> 
> Maoist leader Azad shot at point-blank range: report



Lol..."a news magazine"..."claiming"..."a report".

Super credible evidence Jana ji.

Like I said..this is a rumour started by Maoist sympathiser/Writer Vara Vara Rao.




Jana said:


> Why you need comparison with others to legtimize something in India in the first place.
> 
> Secondly we have declared TTP as terrorist outfit so we have no issue in killing terrorists on the other hand *Indians are in a fix you guys either should declare Azad and Maoists as terrorists* or dont kill them on different excuses.



::Ministry of Home Affairs::

See which organisations are in the 26 th and 27 th number.

You seriously need to research before typing something.

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## Dash

Markus said:


> UN Resolutions do not nullify the Instrument of Accession signed by Hari SIngh with India.
> 
> *And there are several preconditions for the UN resolutions to be implemented, I think we have discussed this a million times already in other threads.*
> 
> Bottomline: Until UN resolutions are implemented, the Instrument of accession stands.



And when we say that suddenly people stop debating or go deaf.


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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> Ok. I am convinced.
> 
> 2001 Parliament attack was carried out by Jamaicans.
> 
> 2001 Indian Parliament attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2002 Raghunath temple attacks were carried out by Haitians.
> 
> 2002 Raghunath temple attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2002 Akshardham Temple Attack was carried out by Hollywood actors Will Smith and Martin Lawrence. This was masterminded by Michael Bay and there will be an upcoming movie named Bad Boys III.
> 
> Akshardham Temple attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> GB



 wikipedia come again.

Afzal Guru was Indian intelligence operative who was set up by you guys and still failed to prove.


----------



## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> wikipedia come again.
> 
> Afzal Guru was Indian intelligence operative who was set up by you guys and still failed to prove.



Is that why he will be hanged? It is the same Arundhati Roy who is fighting for Afzal Guru's release as well. 

So choose your words carefully.

and BTW wasn't Ajmal Kasab was supposed to be an Indian Hindu too?

if not a Pakistani abducted by Indians from Nepal?

if not a Pakistani who went to do sight seeing in Mumbai and abducted by Mumbai Police?


> Indian Penal Code is not applicable in Jammu & Kashmir.



What is applicable then? Nepolianic codes?

IPC is applicable in every part of India including Jammu and Kashmir.


> So sedition committed in J & K can't be booked under that Act.



Yes it can provided your secular Government has willingness to do so.

GB


----------



## Spring Onion

*I pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice: Arundhati Roy*


Writer Arundhati Roy, who is in the thick of a sedition controversy over her speeches on Kashmir, issued this statement from Srinagar:

*"I write this from Srinagar, Kashmir. This morning's papers say that I may be arrested on charges of sedition for what I have said at recent public meetings on Kashmir. I said what millions of people here say every day. I said what I, as well as other commentators have written and said for years. Anybody who cares to read the transcripts of my speeches will see that they were fundamentally a call for justice. I spoke about justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal military occupations in the world; for Kashmiri Pandits who live out the tragedy of having been driven out of their homeland; for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore; *for the Indian poor who pay the price of this occupation in material ways and who are now learning to live in the terror of what is becoming a police state.

Yesterday I traveled to Shopian, the apple-town in South Kashmir which had remained closed for 47 days last year in protest against the brutal **** and murder of Asiya and Nilofer, the young women whose bodies were found in a shallow stream near their homes and whose murderers have still not been brought to justice*. I met Shakeel, who is Nilofer's husband and Asiya's brother. We sat in a circle of people crazed with grief and anger who had lost hope that they would ever get 'insaf'justicefrom India, and now believed that Azadifreedom was their only hope*.
*
I met young stone pelters who had been shot through their eyes. I traveled with a young man who told me how three of his friends, teenagers in Anantnag district, had been taken into custody and had their finger-nails pulled out as punishment for throwing stones.*

In the papers some have accused me of giving 'hate-speeches', of wanting India to break up. On the contrary, what I say comes from love and pride. It comes from not wanting people to be killed, raped, imprisoned or have their finger-nails pulled out in order to force them to say they are Indians. It comes from wanting to live in a society that is striving to be a just one. *Pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice, while communal killers, mass murderers, corporate scamsters, looters, rapists, and those who prey on the poorest of the poor, roam free."
*
Arundhati Roy
October 26 2010

Read more: I pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice: Arundhati Roy - The Times of India I pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice: Arundhati Roy - The Times of India

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## Bangalorean

Jana said:


> wikipedia come again.
> 
> *Afzal Guru was Indian intelligence operative who was set up by you guys and still failed to prove*.



And Jana is conspiracy theorist who writes Masala journalism for Green media 

Seriously, get rid of the conspiracy theories already!


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## KS

RamGorur said:


> I met young stonepelters who had been shot through their eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and lived to tell her their tales? Paper bullets?
Click to expand...






> *for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I (Suzanne Arundati Roy) visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore *



Lol..happened to see this...Does she even know where Cuddalore is on the Indian Map. Poor lier.

Cuddalore is in Tamil Nadu,5 hrs from my city and every fallen soldier is given 21 gun salute by the TN Government and has a memorial built in honor of him which in turn is maintained by the PWD department.

Oops BUSTED.!!


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## prototype

I think many people here were openly supporting the 11 yrs rigorous imprisonment of Liu Xiabo,when he questioned Chinese autonomy

And when Arundhati roy is doing something same here,even a news of action against her is looked as a cowardly action by India

So much hypocracy.

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## Kinetic

Jana said:


> *I pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice: Arundhati Roy*



Only in India such comments are possible, I wish if she was in another country!!!!


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## KALKI

prototype said:


> I think many people here were openly supporting the 11 yrs rigorous imprisonment of Liu Xiabo,when he questioned Chinese autonomy
> 
> And when Arundhati roy is doing something same here,even a news of action against her is looked as a cowardly action by India
> 
> So much hypocracy.



Well...it's an imperfect world you know!

*Wo karein toh chamatkaar, hum karein toh balatkaar!*


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## garibnawaz

Kinetic said:


> Only in India such comments are possible, I wish if she was in another country!!!!



Russia for instance.

Either she would have ate plutonium or died in a lift.

GB.

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## RamGorur

Asim Aquil said:


> *Kashmir has never been part of India, UN resolutions says so*. It is disputed territory


I hear this a lot from many Pakistanis. Now will you do me a favour and point to a resolution, communique, press release or any official UN document that categorically says that Kashmir is _not_ part of India.

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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> *Partition of India a Blunder  Altaf Hussain*
> 
> Partition of India a Blunder  Altaf Hussain Indus Asia Online Journal (iaoj)



 what it has to do with this thread.

Please visit a thread is already there on what Altaf Hussain said. We will be happy to discuss it there.


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## Kinetic

garibnawaz said:


> Russia for instance.
> 
> Either she would have ate plutonium or died in a lift.
> 
> GB.



Why talk about Russia only? Think if she were in USA, Pakistan, UK, PRC, North Korea? Is this possible in any other country. NO.


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## LaBong

> Quote:
> Indian Penal Code is not applicable in Jammu & Kashmir.
> What is applicable then? Nepolianic codes?
> 
> IPC is applicable in every part of India including Jammu and Kashmir.
> Quote:
> So sedition committed in J & K can't be booked under that Act.
> Yes it can provided your secular Government has willingness to do so.
> 
> GB



According to article 370, except for Defense, Foreign Affairs, Finance and Communications,(matters specified in the instrument of accession) the Indian Parliament needs the State Government's concurrence for applying all other laws. Thus the state's residents lived under a separate set of laws, including those related to citizenship, ownership of property, and fundamental rights, as compared to Indians.

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## garibnawaz

Kinetic said:


> Why talk about Russia only?



Coz I liked the idea of eating plutonium.


> what it has to do with this thread.



We all have our share of jokers.

Ours Arundhati, your Altaf.

GB


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## Kinetic

Asim Aquil said:


> Kashmir has never been part of India, UN resolutions says so. It is disputed territory



It doesn't matter what UN resolution says. Through out the history Kashmir was always part of India and there is no difference between Punjab, Rajasthan, Bengal any other Indian state with Kashmir. Its king joined India like many other kingly states.


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## garibnawaz

Abir said:


> According to article 370, except for Defence, Foreign Affairs, Finance and Communications,(matters specified in the instrument of accession) the Indian Parliament needs the State Government's concurrence for applying all other laws. Thus the state's residents lived under a separate set of laws, including those related to citizenship, ownership of property, and fundamental rights, as compared to Indians.



Does not talk about IPC.

Try again. http://jkhighcourt.nic.in/

What happpens when someone is caught stealing? Are his hands chopped?

What happened to those who were accused of rapes? Were they stoned?

What happens to a murderer? Don't they book him under 302?

GB


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## Spring Onion

Kinetic said:


> Why talk about Russia only? Think if she were in USA, Pakistan, UK, PRC, North Korea? Is this possible in any other country. NO.



I see bhartis are doing just speaking against her abusing her sans any logical argument.


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## KS

Abir said:


> According to article 370, except for Defense, Foreign Affairs, Finance and Communications,(matters specified in the instrument of accession) the *Indian Parliament needs the State Government's concurrence for applying all other laws.* Thus the state's residents lived under a separate set of laws, including those related to citizenship, ownership of property, and fundamental rights, as compared to Indians.



The good news is Omar Abdullah has already given his consent. 



Jana said:


> I see bhartis are doing just speaking against her abusing her sans any logical argument.



Only Logic can be met with Logic.


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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> Does not talk about IPC.
> 
> Try again. Welcome to High Court of Jammu & Kashmir
> 
> What happpens when someone is caught stealing? Are his hands chopped?
> 
> What happened to those who were accused of rapes?
> 
> Were they stoned?
> 
> What happens to a murderer? Don't they book him under 302?
> 
> GB



So how many Indian terrorist army personnel have been punished for rapes in Occupied Kashmir?


How many of them have been punished for murdering Kashmiris in their country occupied by India?


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## KALKI

Jana said:


> I see bhartis are doing just speaking against her abusing her sans any logical argument.



Abhi toh abuse kiya nahin hai!


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## Kinetic

Jana said:


> I see bhartis are doing just speaking against her abusing her sans any logical argument.



yeah, bhartis are very 'bad'!!!  and arundhoti roy became an angel for you just because of her barking.


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## para-site

This lady is siding with terrorists and deshdrohis........and pitying our nation.....I think she is correct.......


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## Kinetic

Jana said:


> So how many Indian terrorist army personnel have been punished for rapes in Occupied Kashmir?
> 
> 
> How many of them have been punished for murdering Kashmiris in their country occupied by India?



Stop your BS, loser. When you lose in every argument, come up with such BS.

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## foxbat

Jana said:


> I see bhartis are doing just speaking against her abusing her sans any logical argument.




And when James Cameron gave a speech in India, he was being abused by India's padosis with a lot of logic.. Was he?

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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> So how many Indian terrorist army personnel have been punished for rapes in Occupied Kashmir?
> 
> 
> How many of them have been punished for murdering Kashmiris in their country occupied by India?



The charges which are proven, the people responsible are court martialed.

However many times it was found the accusations were baseless.

A classic example.


*Indian Army To Fire Officer In Kashmir **** Case*
31 January 2005
Reuters

Jammu: An Indian army major found guilty of sexually molesting a 10-year- old girl and her mother in Indian Kashmir is to be dismissed, a spokesman said on Monday. The decision by a military court was one of the swiftest to deliver justice to victims of abuse by Indian security forces battling Islamic militants in the disputed Himalayan state. 'Major Rehman Hussain, who was accused of **** and other charges ... has been found not guilty of the charge of **** but found guilty of other charges and the officer has been sentenced to be dismissed from service,' Colonel R.K. Sen said. The other charges related to molesting the woman and her daughter in their house in October, he said. The family had been adopted by the Indian army 'in a gesture of compassion and consideration', Colonel Sen said. The girl and her brother would be educated at an army residential school and subsequently helped to find jobs. The parents would be suitably rehabilitated, he added. The **** allegations had triggered widespread street protests across Kashmir, where a revolt against Indian rule has killed more than 45,000 people since 1989. Protesters had said the officer raped the woman and her daughter in their house in Badrahpayeen village in north Kashmir during a search operation. The military said this month that DNA tests did not support the **** charge. Rights groups blame Indian forces and militant groups for widespread abuses in Kashmir. 

GB


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## Von Hölle

Jana said:


> So how many Indian terrorist army personnel have been punished for rapes in Occupied Kashmir?
> 
> 
> How many of them have been punished for murdering Kashmiris in their country occupied by India?



The Number is more than the number of Pakistani army personnel punished for killing and raping in East Pakistan.

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## RamGorur

Abir said:


> According to article 370, except for Defense, Foreign Affairs, Finance and Communications,(matters specified in the instrument of accession) the Indian Parliament needs the State Government's concurrence for applying all other laws. Thus the state's residents lived under a separate set of laws, including those related to citizenship, ownership of property, and fundamental rights, as compared to Indians.


I know this will not be liked by my co-citizens, but this is what Omar had referred to as 'acceded but not yet merged'.

*Garib*ji, I understand your sentiments, but unfortunately law is law. Section 1 of IPC clearly states:

"_This act shall be called the Indian Penal Code, and shall extend to the whole of India *except the State of Jammu and Kashmir*._"


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## Blue Sword

Jana said:


> So how many Indian terrorist army personnel have been punished for rapes in Occupied Kashmir?
> 
> 
> How many of them have been punished for murdering Kashmiris in their country occupied by India?



Sorry i could not find that in Wikipedia.

Those event were never happen unless those infiltrated militant comes to Kashmir and disrupt the peace and harmony in the valley.


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## garibnawaz

RamGorur said:


> *Garib*ji, I understand your sentiments, but unfortunately law is law. Section 1 of IPC clearly states:
> 
> "_This act shall be called the Indian Penal Code, and shall extend to the whole of India except the State of Jammu and Kashmir._"



http://jkhighcourt.nic.in/

What law this establishment follows then?

GB


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## Kinetic

Von Hölle;1226684 said:


> The Number is more than the number of Pakistani army personnel punished for killing and raping in East Pakistan.



I don't think any of them were punished. Do you have any source??


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## Ganguly

Sadly Ms Roy represent the Barbarian's.while at the same time falsely implicating the men in uniform whose sole duty is to protect the nation from falling hands into anti-nationals,fundamentalists,
anti-secularists and the kind..

My advice is simple..stop speaking and writing or joining hands with anti-nationals on basis of their sobs and weeps..You cannot deal with love people who have taken to violence..You got to crush them with all means at the disposal because the men who are in uniform are also having only one life..the naxals,seperatists,rebels who are working against the secular democratic India have no right to expect justice or mercy from any Indian because thats simply treason..None in India can take for granted democracy,secularism and ask for secession..those who do not want to stay in India as Indians under the constitution of India better get out from this land or expect no Justice from the laws of this land upon which these scums have no regard or value..all the laws of this land,basic human rights in this land are meant for nationals not anti-nationals..democracy and secularism doesnt mean trading the land for rights,liberty,justice,race,color,caste or religion..

High time Ms Roy and their clones represent the nation not anti-nationals..


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## Spring Onion

Kinetic said:


> Stop your BS, loser. When you lose in every argument, come up with such BS.



*Loser are those who resort to personal attacks.*

Indian army in Occupied Kashmir is doing State terrorism hence they are a terrorist Army in Occupied Kashmir.


NE, Maoist areas are in India hence i have no issue with your army there.


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## Von Hölle

Kinetic said:


> I don't think any of them were punished. Do you have any source??




That was rhetorical statement...
they were not punished ..after the POW exchange they were reinstated..and not tried of for war crimes...So any number is greater than zero.


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## Spring Onion

Blue Sword said:


> Sorry i could not find that in Wikipedia.
> 
> Those event were never happen unless those infiltrated militant comes to Kashmir and disrupt the peace and harmony in the valley.



Thousands Protest Indian Kashmir Killing

The protesters say soldiers shot Mushtaq Ahmed Mir during a clash between Muslim militants and Indian troops[/B]






Kashmiri villagers carry the body of a local businessman Mushtaq Ahmed Mir during a protest in Shadi Marg, south of Srinagar, 24 Jan 2009

Thousands of people protested Sunday in the streets of Indian-controlled Kashmir, accusing the Indian army of killing a civilian. 

Police say Mushtaq Ahmed Mir was killed late Saturday in the crossfire during a clash between Muslim militants and Indian troops. 

The protesters say soldiers shot Mir in the conflict. 

In an incident Friday, police say one civilian was killed and several people were wounded when law enforcement officers opened fire on demonstrators in the same region. 

Investigators say the protest erupted after police set up a road block in a village about 30 kilometers north of Srinagar, the region's largest city. Demonstrators complained the barrier blocked the route to a Muslim shrine. 

Anti-India sentiment is strong in Muslim-majority Kashmir. Islamic separatists in the region have been fighting for decades for independence from India or a merger with Muslim-majority Pakistan.


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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> *Loser are those who resort to personal attacks.*



No. Losers are those who claim to be journalists and are not aware of basic things/facts/knowledge.

Instead of knowing or discussing those things/facts/knowledge some people keep spreading propaganda.



> NE, Maoist areas are in India hence i have no issue with your army there.



So does Kashmir.

Besides Army ain't fighting Maoists.

GB

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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> Thousands Protest Indian Kashmir Killing


*
Kashmiri Shia mourn India patriot*

By Altaf Hussain
BBC News, Dub, Indian-administered Kashmir 






The funeral north of Srinagar in Indian-administered Kashmir was just like those of countless others who have died violently over the past 20 years.

A Muslim killed in the insurgency was laid to rest in his ancestral graveyard in the village of Dub, north of Srinagar, on Tuesday, surrounded by thousands of mourners.

What made the ceremony unusual was that this was no militant who had died fighting the Indian army.

This was a Kashmiri who served with the Indian army and died fighting the militants.

Shabir Ahmed Malik was among eight Indian soldiers killed in a gun battle earlier this week with separatist militants in Kupwara. 

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Kashmiri Shia mourn India patriot

GB

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## Kinetic

Jana said:


> Loser are those who resort to personal attacks.



*Losers are those who dont have any argument to stand on their propaganda, so start abusing others, like you usually do.* 



> Indian army in Occupied Kashmir is doing State terrorism hence they are a terrorist Army in Occupied Kashmir.



IA is saving Kashmiris from the militants from accross the borders. Many of the soldiers of IA fighting in Kashmir are Kashmiris and the forefront of fight is JK police, consisted of Kashmiris only. 




> NE, Maoist areas are in India hence i have no issue with your army there.



There is no army in Maoist areas. *And Kashmir was part of India from the prehistoric time. *

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## garibnawaz

> Islamic separatists in the region have been fighting for decades for independence from India or a merger with Muslim-majority Pakistan.



Last time I checked, most of them wanted an independant Kashmir.

GB

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## Ganguly

What Ms Roy has been propagating for the past few years, in my view, basically militates against the sheer existence of India as a pluralistic and democratic society. She has time and again crossed the boundary of what can be termed as responsible criticism and has been making comments which basically goes against the concept of a modern and unified India. I think she is deliberately testing the patience of the state as well as of vast majority of Indians who wants to see a modern, plural and developed India.


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## Von Hölle

Jana said:


> *Loser are those who resort to personal attacks.*
> 
> Indian army in Occupied Kashmir is doing State terrorism hence they are a terrorist Army in Occupied Kashmir.
> 
> 
> NE, Maoist areas are in India hence i have no issue with your army there.



Would not same standards apply to your army too??...for doing, you know what..and doing it, you know when!!

PS : do spare us the disputed - non disputed territory BS..because I think human rights are the same irrespective of legality of the territory.

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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> No. Losers are those who claim to be journalists and are not aware of basic things/facts/knowledge.
> 
> Instead of knowing or discussing those things/facts/knowledge some people keep spreading propaganda.



Come again. Your personal attacks are not an argument neither valid.

If you remove your orange glasses you may see the facts.





> So does Kashmir.



Not at all. If Kashmir was part of India you would not have been having sleepless nights.




> Besides Army ain't fighting Maoists.
> 
> GB



Surely Indian army does not have guts to fight against Maoists rather its more easy with killing armless innocent Kashmiris.


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## Developereo

Ganguly said:


> What Ms Roy has been propagating for the past few years, in my view, basically militates against the sheer existence of India as a pluralistic and democratic society. She has time and again crossed the boundary of what can be termed as responsible criticism and has been making comments which basically goes against the concept of a modern and unified India. I think she is deliberately testing the patience of the state as well as of vast majority of Indians who wants to see a modern, plural and developed India.



Except that the (Valley) Kashmiris don't want to be part of this India, no matter how modern, pluralistic or developed it may be.

You want to be part of this India, good for you. They don't want any part of it and she is simply pointing out the reality that Indians keep avoiding.


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## jbond197

Jana said:


> *Loser are those who resort to personal attacks.*
> 
> Loosers are those who will resort to BS conspiracy theories now and then just to stand in a argument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian army in Occupied Kashmir is doing State terrorism hence they are a terrorist Army in Occupied Kashmir.
> 
> 
> 
> OK .. what ever floats your boat. IA is fighting the terrorists and ain't going to let a piece of India break away. what ever be the cost we are ready to bear? Got it. Ask your looser army to directly attack instead of inciting people and pushing in insurgents developed thousands in numbers in your Terrorist factories under the guidence of your intelligence agencies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NE, Maoist areas are in India hence i have no issue with your army there
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hmm I thought you had issue with any thing which has India associated with it. Hope i don't see you Maoist and NE related threads going forward.
> 
> The Bottomline is Pakistanis can not let go their Obsession with India and any events in India.
Click to expand...

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## Spring Onion

Kinetic said:


> *Losers are those who dont have any argument to stand on their propaganda, so start abusing others, like you usually do.*


*

Point the post where i have abused you unlike you who have no argument to hold on.

Indian army in IoK is terrorist army simple as that.







IA is saving Kashmiris from the militants from accross the borders. Many of the soldiers of IA fighting in Kashmir are Kashmiris and the forefront of fight is JK police, consisted of Kashmiris only.

Click to expand...


Indian army has invaded Kashmir and killing innocent Kashmiris and thats why you have seen even Kashmiri women picked up stones against your terrorist army






There is no army in Maoist areas.

Click to expand...


sure major part has been sent to a Country Kashmir for killing innocent 





And Kashmir was part of India from the prehistoric time.

Click to expand...


 then why you needed accession at gun point *


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## Spring Onion

jbond197 said:


> OK .. what ever floats your boat. IA is fighting the terrorists and ain't going to let a piece of India break away. what ever be the cost we are ready to bear? Got it. Ask your looser army to directly attack instead of inciting people and pushing in insurgents developed thousands in numbers in your Terrorist factories under the guidence of your intelligence agencies.



Something that is NOT part of India can not be broken away rather Indian terrorist army will be kicked out of it by its people 





> The Bottomline is Pakistanis can not let go their Obsession with India and any events in India.




yeah thats why bhartis are flocking this forum with hundreds of multiple IDs 

lolzzz


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## Kinetic

Jana said:


> Thousands Protest Indian Kashmir Killing



They are peaceful people thats why don't go to the street to fight with the protesters. 







*9000 Kashmiri boys shun ultras threat, attend Army recruitment camp *

Kashmiri boys shun ultras threat, attend Army recruitment camp - India - DNA

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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> Not at all. If Kashmir was part of India you would not have been having sleepless nights.



We were having pretty peaceful nights till 1988. Even in 1965 when the people of Kashmir refused to join hands with Pakistani SSG against India.


> Surely Indian army does not have guts to fight against Maoists rather its more easy with killing armless innocent Kashmiris.



Our Army does not fight against its own people. Neither the AF bombs its own people.

Maoists are handled by Police and Paramilitary.

You dont need a sword to cut the nails.



> armless innocent Kashmiris.



In last 22 years IA has captured 40000+ AK's from Kashmir to begin with. I wonder if the Austrailians dropped it there.

GB

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## Blue Sword

Developereo said:


> Except that the (Valley) Kashmiris don't want to be part of this India, no matter how modern, pluralistic or developed it may be.
> 
> You want to be part of this India, good for you. They don't want any part of it and she is simply pointing out the reality that Indians keep avoiding.



They will too join India. Unless Pakistan stops sending the militants to Kashmir and mislead the mob.

Another truth Pakistani always feel the fire what happened the Bangladesh issue. But Indian involvement was necessary.Plz don't ask why? You think you do the same with Kashmir?

But not here this time. Kashmir will be fine once leave them where it is. That is good for us and good for you.


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## Spring Onion

European Parliament debate about Kashmir mass graves Sarah Ludford speaking about Mass graves in Indian occupied Kashmir din European Parliament during which European parliament passes resolution against mass graves in Kashmir.






* PARIS: The European parliament Thursday adopted a protest resolution against mass graves discovered in occupied Kashmir.*

The European Parliament during its plenary session in Strasbourg, France voted on a resolution on violation of human rights in Kashmir.

The request for inclusion in the agenda for the debate on cases of breaches of human rights, democracy and the rule of law was made by four members of European parliament.

The resolution says that &#8220;hundreds of unidentified graves have been discovered since 2006 in Jammu and Kashmir&#8221;.

The resolution calls on the Indian government &#8220;to urgently ensure independent and impartial investigations into all suspected sites of mass graves in Jammu and Kashmir and as an immediate first step to secure the grave sites in order to preserve the evidence&#8221;.

It calls on the European Commission to offer financial and technical assistance to the Indian government for a thorough inquiry.


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## garibnawaz

Further to the earlier post of Kinetic.
*
Army gets first Muslim Major General from Kashmir*

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/10791-army-gets-first-muslim-major-general-kashmir.html

*Lt.Cmdr Wahida Prism First Kashmiri woman to head a passing out parade in Navy.*

Wahida Prism Khan [b.1972] : Armed Forces | Indian Muslims
*
Shah Faesal is the IAS topper 2010: UPSC IAS Toppers Result 2010*

Shah Faesal is the IAS topper 2010: UPSC IAS Toppers Result 2010, ias toppers, ias topper 2010, ias toppers 2010, ias topper 2009, ias result 2010, upsc topper 2009 | India Summary

GB

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## Spring Onion

*Disquiet Ghosts: Mass graves in Kashmir*

July 13, 2008
By Angana Chatterji



Dirt, rubble, thick grass, hillside and flatland, crowded with graves. Signifiers of military and paramilitary terror, masked from the world. Constructed by institutions of state to conceal massacre. Placed next to homes, fields, schools, an army practise range. Unknown, unmarked. Over 940 graves in a segment of Baramulla district alone. Some containing more than one cadaver. Dug by locals, coerced by the police, on village land. Bodies dragged through the night, some tortured, burnt, desecrated. Circulating mythology claims these graves uniformly house &#8216;foreign militants'. Exhumation and identification have not occurred in most cases. When undertaken, in sizable instances, records prove the dead to be local people, ordinary citizens, killed in fake encounters. In instances where bodies have been identified as local, non-militant and militant, it demystifies state rhetoric that rumours these persons to be &#8216;foreign militants', propagating misrepresentation that the demand for self-determination is prevailingly external. Mourned, cared for, by locals, as &#8216;farz'/duty, as part of an obligation, stated repeatedly, to &#8216;azadi'. &#8216;Azadi'/freedom to determine self and future.


On 18 and 20 June, the International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir (&#8216;Tribunal', convened in April 2008, International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-Administered Kashmir) visited Baramulla and Kupwara district to conduct ongoing fact-finding and verification related to mass graves at the behest of local communities.

The team comprised of Tribunal Conveners Advocate Parvez Imroz and myself, a staff member, and camera crew.

On 18 June, we visited Raja Mohalla in Uri, Baramulla district, 110 kilometres from Srinagar, where 22 graves were constructed between 1996-1997. Then to Quazipora, where 13 bodies were stated as buried in seven graves in 1991. Then we travelled to Chehal, Bimyar village, Uri, holding 235 graves. We re-met Atta Mohammad, gravedigger and caretaker at Chehal, who testified that these bodies, brought by the police, primarily after dark, were buried between 2002-2006. Atta Mohammad said that the bodies appear in his nightmares, each in graphic, gruesome detail. Terrorised by the task forced upon him, his nights are bereft of sleep. Then we travelled to Mir Mohalla, Kichama, Sheeri, to the main graveyard with 105 graves, stated to hold about 225-250 bodies, buried between 1994-2003, and a smaller graveyard, with nine graves, adjacent to a sign proclaiming it a &#8216;Model Village'.


On 20 June, we visited the northern district of Kupwara. On the way we witnessed army convoys, including one of 21+ vehicles. Created in 1979 through the forking of Baramulla district, approximately 5,000 feet above sea level, Kupwara borders the Line-of-Control to the north and west. Between Shamsbari and Pirpanchal mountain ranges, it is one of the most heavily militarised zones, about 95 kilometres from Srinagar. Kupwara houses six army camps, as military and paramilitary forces occupy significant land. Seven interrogation centres have been operational with police stations functioning as additional interrogation cells. In Handwara town, a watchtower surveils and regulates movement.


In Kupwara, we visited Trehgam village, holding 85-100 graves, 24 of which are identified, and spoke with community members. Trehgam was home to Maqbool Bhat (b. 1938), founding figure of the Jammu Kashmir National Liberation Front. Acknowledged as Shaheed-e-Kashmir, Bhat is labelled a &#8216;terrorist' by certain segments of India. He sought to unite the territories of the former princely state of Jammu and Kashmir into a secular, sovereign, democratic state. Bhat was sentenced to death by the Supreme Court of India and hanged in Tihar jail in New Delhi on 11 February 1984. Maqbool Bhat's nephew, Parvaiz Ahmad Bhat, reminded us that Habibullah Bhat, Bhat's brother, was the first case of enforced disappearance before 1989.

After Trehgam, we reached Regipora around 3 pm and stopped for lunch. There, two persons introduced themselves as Special Branch Kashmir (SBK) and Counter Intelligence Kashmir (CIK) personnel, and questioned the Tribunal staff member about our visit. After responding, we proceeded to the &#8216;martyrs' graveyard' holding 258 graves, constructed in 1995. This burial ground is meticulously ordered, each grave numbered. The body of a 20-25 year old youth was buried in the first week of June, reportedly killed in an encounter in Bamhama village.


We stopped at a roadside tea stall to speak with local people about the graves. Four intelligence personnel questioned us, asking we disclose information about those we had visited. Soon, four additional SBK and CIK personnel joined the questioning. Other intelligence personnel made phone calls. By then, about 12 intelligence personnel gathered. Following further questioning we proceeded toward Srinagar. A car followed at a distance.

We detoured to Sadipora, Kandi, where locals stated that around 20 bodies were buried. The graveyard, overrun with wild flowers, is part of a larger ground used during festivals, including Id. Two of four bodies, killed in a fake encounter on 29 April 2007, were exhumed, identified as locals, contrary to police records stating them to be &#8216;Pakistani terrorists'. Saidipora holds Riyaz Ahmad Bhat's grave, killed in the encounter, age 19. Police records, per the First Information Report, declared him a &#8216;Pakistani terrorist'. Riyaz Bhat was identified by Javeed Ahmed, his brother, as a resident of Kalashpora, Srinagar, based on police photographs from the time of death. Ahmed travelled with the Tribunal to take us to his brother's grave. On his knees Javeed attempted to clear the thick brush. Later, in Srinagar, he testified that Bhat had never been involved in militancy. Javeed spoke of grieving, of imprisonment and beatings at the police station. He asked how he could have saved his brother from death.

After Sadiapora, we were stopped at Shangargund, Sopore, at about 6.40 pm, by three persons in civilian clothing. They forcibly boarded the car. We were ordered to the Sopore Police Station. There we were asked to detail our identity, employment, the purpose of the visit, and to hand over tapes which, the police alleged, contained &#8216;dangerous' and &#8216;objectionable' material. We stated that the Tribunal, a public process, was undertaking its work peaceably, lawfully, with informed consent, and that we had not visited restricted areas. We stated that the police had no lawful reason to seize the tapes. We were detained for 16 minutes.
After several calls to senior police persons, we were released. A red Indica car followed us to Sangrama. At Srinagar, Intelligence personnel were stationed at my hotel. On 21 June, I was followed from the hotel to the Tribunal's office in Lal Chowk, where about 8 personnel were stationed the entire day questioning anyone who entered or left the office.

My mother, residing in Calcutta, received a query regarding my whereabouts from the District Magistrate's Office. I was followed to the Srinagar airport on 22 June, and questioned, asked if I possessed dual citizenship. I do not. I am a citizen of India and a permanent resident of the United States. On 24 June, I arrived in Bhubaneswar to submit a statement to the Commission of Inquiry on the Kandhamal violence against Christians in 2007 in Orissa. There too, Central Intelligence officials persistently inquired after me. In April, after announcing the Tribunal, I was stopped and harassed at Immigration while leaving India for the United States, and again on my re-entry in June.

The targeting of the Tribunal has not abated since the Amarnath issue erupted around 23 June. The volatile proposal to transfer 800 kanals of land to the Shrine Board, revoked on 01 July, was supported by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party and Hindu militant Shiv Sena. Despite the Sena's recent call to Hindus to form suicide squads, it faces no sanctions from the state. Kashmiris of diverse ethnicities and religions dissented the Amarnath land transfer. Community leaders in Kashmir explained that their stance against the proposal is not in dissent to Hindu pilgrims, but a repressive state. During the Amarnath land transfer protests, civil disobedience paralleled that of 1989, amid severe repression. On 30 June, in curfew-like conditions, we met with two families in Srinagar who narrated that the police had shot dead their sons. At one place, in the old city, while the men took the body for burial late at night, the police returned and destroyed property and molested women.

On 30 June, at about 10:10 pm, Parvez Imroz and his family were attacked at home by state forces, who fired three shots and hurled a grenade while exiting when family and community interrupted their attempts. Neighbours reported seeing one large armoured vehicle and two Gypsy cars, and men in CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) and SOG (Special Operations Group) uniforms. This murder attempt is an escalation in the forms of state-led intimidation and targeting aimed at Advocate Imroz. It is an attempt to make the Tribunal vulnerable and instil fear in us in an attempt to stop this process.

On 01 July, we met at Khurram Parvez's home before addressing a press conference. Outside, jeeps with plainclothes men continued their observation, accompanied by a jeep with armed men in uniform.

Later, Advocate Imroz, Khurram Parvez, Advocate Mihir Desai, and I went to the police station to lodge a First Information Report. We were not permitted to do so. For security reasons, Parvez Imroz is not staying at home. Khurram Parvez remains under surveillance.

I must allow for distance before revisiting the graves. On 04 July, sitting on a plane at Delhi International Airport, waiting to take-off, I received a phone call on my India mobile, caller &#8216;Unknown': "Madam,we know you're leaving. Think wisely before coming back".

Orders to unnerve the leadership of the International Tribunal by the Government of India's intelligence and security administration appear to be generated at the highest levels. The general policy of surveillance should not be used as a pretext to create obstacles for our work. As India argues for a seat on the United Nations Security Council, the Government of India, as &#8216;Frontline Defenders' stated in their recent alert supporting the Tribunal, must adhere to its own repeated commitment to peace in Kashmir and international conventions and laws. It must uphold democratic governance and safeguard human rights.

Advocate Imroz, Khurram Parvez, other members of the Tribunal team, have long experienced injustices for their extraordinary work as human rights defenders. A lauded human rights lawyer, Parvez Imroz has survived two, now three, assassination attempts, the first from militants. Since 2005, his passport has been denied. Khurram Parvez lost his leg in a landmine incident. Gautam Navlakha and Zahir-ud-Din have been intimidated and threatened, as has Mihir Desai, in their larger work. It is noteworthy that the Government of India is adding intimidation to the death and **** threats delivered me by Hindu extremists for human rights work.

The work of the Tribunal is an act of conscience and accountability, fraught with the charge of complex and violent histories. Its mandate, in documenting Kashmir's present, is to chronicle the fabric of militarisation, status of human rights, and legal, political, militaristic &#8216;states of exception'. The Tribunal's work will continue through the coming months. We have received extensive solidarity from civil society; victims/survivors, at street corners, from villagers, ordinary citizens, those committed to justice. Each life in Kashmir has a story to tell. The subjugation of civil society has produced magnificent ethical resistance. The state cannot combat every individual.

Nearly two decades of genocidal violence record 70,000+ dead, 8,000+ disappeared, 60,000+ tortured, 50,000+ orphaned,incalculable sexualised and gendered violence, a very high rate of people with suicidal behaviours; hundreds of thousands displaced; violations of promises, laws, conventions, agreements, treaties; mass graves; mile upon mile of barbed wire; fear, suppression of varied demands for participation to determine Kashmir's future, spirals of violence, protracted silence. Last year, Kashmir's only hospital with services for mental health received 68,000 patients. Profound social, economic, and psychological consequences, and an intense isolation have impacted private, public, and everyday life. It has generated brutal resistance on the part of groups that have engaged in violent militancy. Repressions of struggles for self-determination and international policies/politics have yielded severe consequences, creating a juncture at which the failure of governance intersects with a culture of grief.

Torture survivors, non-militants and former militants, that I met with testified to the sadism of the forces. Reportedly, a man, hung upside down, had petrol injected through his anus. Water-boarding, mutilation, **** of women, children, and men, starvation, psychological torture. Brutalised, &#8216;healed', to be brutalised again. An eagle tattoo on the arm of a man was reportedly identified by an army officer as a symbol of Pakistan-held Azad Kashmir, even as the man clarified the tattoo was from his childhood. The skin containing it was burned. The officer, the man stated, said: "When you look at this, think of azadi". A mother, reportedly asked to watch her daughter's **** by army personnel, pleaded for her release. They refused. She pleaded that she could not watch, asking to be sent out of the room or be killed. We were told that the soldier pointed a gun to her forehead, stating he would grant her wish, and shot her before they proceeded to **** the daughter. We also spoke with persons violated by militants. One man stated that people's experiences with the reprehensible atrocities of militancy do not imply the abdication of their desire for self-determination. This, he stated, is a mistake the state makes, conflating militancy with the intent for self-determination.


He clarified that neither is self-determination an indication of allegiance to Pakistan, largely to the contrary.

The continuing and daunting presence of military and paramilitary forces, increased and sophisticated surveillance, merges with pervasive and immense suffering and anger of people in villages, towns, and cities across Kashmir. Parallel to the presence of 500,000 troops and commitment to nuclearisation, official figures state that there are about 450 militants in Kashmir and that demilitarisation is underway. In March 2007, three government committees on demilitarisation resolved that the &#8216;low intensity war continues', placing in limbo troop reduction and the repealment of draconian laws -- the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, imposed in Jammu and Kashmir in December 1990, and the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, enacted in 1992. Local realities reflect that these laws and the military seek to control the general population with impunity.

Kashmir is increasingly defined as a &#8216;post-conflict' zone. &#8216;Post-conflict' is not the propagation of tourism toward an overt display of nationalism. Post-conflict is a space in which to heal, reflect, and enable civil society participation in determining peace and justice. The graves speak to those that listen. Those haunted by history are called to remember.



(Dr Angana Chatterji is associate professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of Integral Studies and co-convener of the International People's Tribunal in Kashmir. A shorter version of the article appeared in Tehelka magazine's recent issue).

ZCommunications | Disquiet Ghosts: Mass graves in Kashmir by Angana Chatterji | ZNet Article


----------



## Kinetic

Jana said:


> Point the post where i have abused you unlike you who have no argument to hold on.



This post of you. 



> Indian army in IoK is terrorist army simple as that.



You are a loser simpler than that. 




> Indian army has invaded Kashmir and killing innocent Kashmiris and thats why you have seen even Kashmiri women picked up stones against your terrorist army



Go through the history of Kashmir and who invaded whom. Kashmir's king joined India. Women picking up stones is not new. Only you abuses us with 'terrorist', but everyone knows who is terrorist. 





> sure major part has been sent to a Country Kashmir for killing innocent



IA is in Kashmir just like any other part of India. IA is in more number in Kashmir because it faces militancy threat. 




> then why you needed accession at gun point



lol you want to do it now? Just like many other princely states JK joined India.

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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> Further to the earlier post of Kinetic.
> *
> Army gets first Muslim Major General from Kashmir*
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/10791-army-gets-first-muslim-major-general-kashmir.html
> 
> *Lt.Cmdr Wahida Prism First Kashmiri woman to head a passing out parade in Navy.*
> 
> Wahida Prism Khan [b.1972] : Armed Forces | Indian Muslims
> *
> Shah Faesal is the IAS topper 2010: UPSC IAS Toppers Result 2010*
> 
> Shah Faesal is the IAS topper 2010: UPSC IAS Toppers Result 2010, ias toppers, ias topper 2010, ias toppers 2010, ias topper 2009, ias result 2010, upsc topper 2009 | India Summary
> 
> GB




Lame try to justify occupation of Kashmir by India and killing of Kashmiris by Indian terrorist army .

The common Kashmiri give a shyt if you pick up a puppet from Kashmir or not. All they care and voice is their protest for Azadi from Indian occupation.

Its like having a Muslim president by India while millions of Muslims are being mascaraed by fanatic hindus.


----------



## KALKI

Bas karo yaar! har shaam ghar aate ho aur shuru ho jaate ho. Tum log bor nahin hote wohi cheez daily discuss karte karte?


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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> Lame try to justify occupation of Kashmir by India and killing of Kashmiris by Indian terrorist army .
> 
> The common Kashmiri give a shyt if you pick up a puppet from Kashmir or not. All they care and voice is their protest for Azadi from Indian occupation.
> 
> Its like having a Muslim president by India while millions of Muslims are being mascaraed by fanatic hindus.



The Kashmiri's I have been mentioning are part of the same Terrerist Indian Army.

May it be the NCO's or the Commissioned officers.

Not to forget how many Kashmiri's Indian Army had during Kargil war.

GB


----------



## RamGorur

garibnawaz said:


> Welcome to High Court of Jammu & Kashmir
> 
> What law this establishment follows then?
> 
> GB


According to The Central Laws (Extension To Jammu And Kashmir) Act, 1968, the following Acts are directly applicable to J & K.

The Official Trustees Act, The Motor Vehicles Act, The Chartered Accountants Act, The Cost and Works Accountants Act, The Transfer of Prisoners Act, The Road Transport Corporation Act, The Mines Act, The Notaries Act, The Essential Commodities Act, The Companies Act (with J & K specific provisions), The Apprentices Act & The Administrators General Act.

Other than that, some tax laws are also applicable. Some notable Acts that are not applicable are The Indian Penal Code, Criminal Procedure Code, Civil Procedure Code etc. J & K has its own set of laws, which are based on the Acts applicable to the rest of India, sans certain sections and plus some other sections. 

Also, if I am not mistaken, the State Government can declare certain Acts, which are otherwise not applicable, as applicable.


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## garibnawaz

iRobot said:


> Bas karo yaar! har shaam ghar aate ho aur shuru ho jaate ho. Tum log bor nahin hote wohi cheez daily discuss karte karte?



Post my marriege I was out of this forum.

Only uploading stamps and Amul cartoons. Which was not more than 3 times a month.

I have a wife and a life too. Wife specifically does not want me to waste time on online forums.

However one thing that even my wife does not want me to tolerate is insult of my country. Your Country. Our Country.

GB


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## Kinetic

Jana said:


> Lame try to justify occupation of Kashmir by India and killing of Kashmiris by Indian terrorist army.


lame try to hide from reality!!!



> The common Kashmiri give a shyt if you pick up a puppet from Kashmir or not. All they care and voice is their protest for Azadi from Indian occupation.


the common kashmiris give a shyt what you say. they voted them to power and your puppet geelani was also an MLA until he was brain washed like many other kahmiris in last 20 years. Kashmir was peaceful than. 



> Its like having a Muslim president by India while millions of Muslims are being mascaraed by fanatic hindus.



Million?  Much more Muslims died in Pakistan in the hands of Muslims than India.

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## Bangalorean

Jana said:


> Lame try to justify occupation of Kashmir by India and killing of Kashmiris by Indian terrorist army .
> 
> The common Kashmiri give a shyt if you pick up a puppet from Kashmir or not. All they care and voice is their protest for Azadi from Indian occupation.
> 
> *Its like having a Muslim president by India while millions of Muslims are being mascaraed by fanatic hindus*.



Millions? Are you drunk? I thought Islam forbids it?

And one small, little fact: Pakistan has killed more Muslims after independence than India has. Think about it.

And yeah, India has had riots in the past, where both Hindus and Muslims died in large numbers. Only utterly dishonest masala-reporters from Pakistan will call it 'genocide, butchering' and all that. The only genocide in the subcontinent was undertaken by Pakistan.

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## KALKI

garibnawaz said:


> Post my marriege I was out of this forum.
> 
> Only uploading stamps and Amul cartoons.
> 
> I have a wife and a life too.
> 
> However one thing that even my wife does not want me to tolerate is insult of my country. Your Country. Our Country.
> 
> GB



You have been here since dec 2008, have you been able to change anything?


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## roach

Jana said:


> Lame try to justify occupation of Kashmir by India and killing of Kashmiris by Indian terrorist army .
> 
> The common Kashmiri give a shyt if you pick up a puppet from Kashmir or not. All they care and voice is their protest for Azadi from Indian occupation.
> 
> Its like having a Muslim president by India while millions of Muslims are being mascaraed by fanatic hindus.



Honestly, you need to come up with some new lines. Your rants were offensive to start with, now I can almost predict what you're going to write, now it's just like, blah blah.

"Millions of Muslims being massacred"?

Which newspaper do you read?

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## Pratik

I've my sympathies with Arundhati Suzanne Roy ,she is only trying to make a decent living of being an activist . She is smart she is professional and making all the right noises for people looking out to it. Can't blame ,u go girl.


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## Bangalorean

roach said:


> Honestly, you need to come up with some new lines. Your rants were offensive to start with, now I can almost predict what you're going to write, now it's just like, blah blah.
> 
> "Millions of Muslims being massacred"?
> 
> *Which newspaper do you read?*



Forget reading, the most scary thing here is that she actually *writes* for newspapers! I am beginning to understand why the Pakistani public is so much into conspiracy theories and stuff like that.

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## Spring Onion

Kinetic said:


> the common kashmiris give a shyt what you say. they voted them to power and your puppet geelani was also an MLA until he was brain washed like many other kahmiris in last 20 years. Kashmir was peaceful than.
> 
> 
> .





*yeah yeah Bhooka Nanga Hindustan slogan was raised by aliens not common Kashmiris *


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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> *yeah yeah Bhooka Nanga Hindustan slogan was raised by aliens not common Kashmiris *



and Pakistan didnt took a single penny in aid from the same Bhooka Nanga Hindustan. 

GB

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## Kinetic

> Jana said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lame try to justify occupation of Kashmir by India and killing of Kashmiris by Indian terrorist army.
> 
> 
> 
> lame try to hide from reality!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The common Kashmiri give a shyt if you pick up a puppet from Kashmir or not. All they care and voice is their protest for Azadi from Indian occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the common kashmiris give a shyt what you say. they voted them to power and your puppet geelani was also an MLA until he was brain washed like many other kahmiris in last 20 years. Kashmir was peaceful than.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its like having a Muslim president by India while millions of Muslims are being mascaraed by fanatic hindus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Million?  Much more Muslims died in Pakistan in the hands of Muslims than India.
Click to expand...




Jana said:


> yeah yeah Bhooka Nanga Hindustan slogan was raised by aliens not common Kashmiris


*
you again proved that you are a loser. * 

you can say nothing more than that in reply.

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## KALKI

garibnawaz said:


> and Pakistan didnt took a single penny in aid from the same Bhooka Nanga Hindustan.
> 
> GB



Let us keep that aid aspect out of discussion please, what we did was our duty as humans, nothing special.

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## Spring Onion

*Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyaara Pakistan. (Starving and tattered India we reject; Pakistan - land of our dreams - we embrace.)*

DAWN.COM | Columnists | Kashmir?s struggle is just one of many fighting Indian injustices


*A particularly disturbing slogan heard in the Kashmir Valley, where its young school-goers and old patriarchs, angry women and restive youth are courageously defying Indian rule, is enough to put off any sensitive sympathiser. Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyaara Pakistan. (Starving and tattered India we reject; Pakistan - land of our dreams - we embrace.)*

This slogan conveys acute political bankruptcy in a region which has lived with naked military repression for more than 20 years. Im sure any Pakistani with a sense of justice would also be uncomfortable with the warped mindset the slogan betrays.

That Kashmir is reeling under Indian occupation is not a secret. That Pakistan has played a questionable role there is also well known. Yet, for Kashmiris to see their struggle as part of the many battles being waged by the poorest of the poor against the Indian states multi-pronged injustices against its own people, would not compromise or be a contradiction in Kashmirs struggle for self-determination. 

*The simple question for Kashmiris to ask themselves is, isnt the same state that has killed 60 young Kashmiris in three months, also responsible for tens of thousands of suicides by indebted farmers in India? Does Sharmila Irom, who is fighting to repeal the law that gives unbridled powers to security forces in her Manipur state have no relevance for the same struggle in Kashmi*r?

The tribespeople of Chhatisgarh, Orissa, Jharkhand and West Bengal are fighting for their fundamental rights. One of their demands is that they not be evicted from their homes to accommodate corporate land grab. Is this not what Kashmiri Pandits suffered at the hands of the Indian state as well as non-state actors in their homeland without any redress from successive Indian governments that claim to represent them?

Indian Home Minister P. Chidambaram and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh have often cajoled dissident groups, including the banned Maoists, to come for talks within the constitutional framework. Why cant the affected groups simultaneously expose the insincerity of the Indian state? To take just one example, the preamble of the Indian constitution describes the nation as a socialist and secular republic.

Socialism is thus the law of the land. Which Indian government, including the one led by Chidambaram-Singh duo, has come anywhere close to keeping the promise of socialism? Just the opposite. Both have callously opened the country to the depredations of private capital.

I met a Kashmiri separatist a few days after the Babri masjid was razed in Ayodhya. He happened to be the only senior enough leader to be still dodging the police in Srinagar. The rest were in jail. He told me he didnt care for the plight of Indian Muslims in the wake of the Ayodhya outrage. They have never helped the Kashmiris, so why should we bother with them?

The explanation for his aloofness was ironical. How can we forget the senior Indian minister telling journalists during the Agra summit that if Kashmir was to be given to Pakistan on the basis of religious claims, should not the Indian Muslims then be packed off in special trains to Pakistan? Kashmiris and Indian Muslims may see themselves as separate entities with separate causes. But their detractors will always see them as one headache. Check this out with Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi who knows Indian Muslims as children of Mian Musharraf.

I put the question to some Kashmiri intellectuals in Delhi recently. I asked them how was it that a movement with international ramifications and wide support among a number of Muslim states could be so self-absorbed that it didnt have a policy much less a worldview about other peoples sufferings. Kashmiris did speak up once for the Palestinians, but now it seems they do not have the energy for even that. On the other hand, there is no dearth of seemingly unrelated groups that lend them moral support. A recent rally in Canada of Sikhs and Kashmiri activists, who protested against Indias brutality in the Valley, could be a case in point. A few weeks ago an obscure Tamil group in India issued a statement in support of Kashmiris. Do the Kashmiris want to know who the members of the Tamil group are?

There is something about this that reminds me of an interaction I once had with Gen Pervez Musharraf in Islamabad. He had just returned from a visit to Colombo where his government was giving military and political support to the government against Tamil rebels. I said how was the Tamil struggle any different from the Kashmiri movement since both stemmed from the denial of the right to self-determination. Gen Musharraf said he didnt want to comment on another countrys internal matter. So he too chose the injustice, which suited him most.

Vidya Subrahmaniam of The Hindu has done an interesting comparison of three major pogroms in India, each fighting its own battle without getting involved with the sorrows of each other.

The Orissa violence, in which Hindu-Adivasis targeted Dalit Christians, was undoubtedly smaller in scale compared to Gujarat 2002 and Delhi 1984. Despitevariations, the three pogroms could have been written, produced and directed by a single satanic mind, judging by the astonishing similarity in the detail and sequence of events and the stunning brutality of the crimes committed, says Subrahmaniam.

In his November 2002 foreword to the report of the Concerned Citizens Tribunal, which collected 2,094 oral and written testimonies from Gujarats victim-survivors as well as human rights groups, Justice V.R. Krishna Iyer said: The gravamen of this pogrom-like operation was that the administration reversed its constitutional role, and by omission and commission, engineered the loot, ravishment and murder which was methodically perpetrated through planned process 

Eight years later, as Subrahmaniam notes, the jury at the Kandhamal Tribunal had similar words to say: The jury records its shock and deep concern for the heinous and brutal manner in which the members of the Christian community were killed, dismembered, sexually assaulted and tortured  There was rampant and systematic looting and destruction of houses and places of worship and means of livelihood  The jury is further convinced that the communal violence in Kandhamal was the consequence of a subversion of constitutional governance in which state agents were complicit.

When, in the aftermath of Indira Gandhis 1984 assassination, thousands of Sikhs were massacred on the streets of Delhi, the commonly-held view was that it was an aberration brought about by an extraordinary situation. Comparisons were made with the 1947 Partition riots but few could have known at that time that the clinically planned and executed anti-Sikh pogrom would serve as a model for two more episodes of mass aggression against minorities, The Hindu analysis said.
*
India has spawned a coalition of injustices. For those in the Kashmiri resistance to show solidarity with those fighting the same bloated, militarised state that they are, will not compromise their goal. It would only deepen their vision and sharpen their ideas of what kind of azadi they are fighting f*or.


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## Spring Onion

Kinetic said:


> *
> you again proved that you are a loser. *
> .



 the world can see who is a loser i dont need to resort to the personal attacks.


----------



## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> and Pakistan didnt took a single penny in aid from the same Bhooka Nanga Hindustan.
> 
> GB



 Gharibnawaz lolzz there are dozen threads on that topic so go there and discuss it. The Indians were begging us to have the aid lolzz

anyway thats an off topic here.




> A particularly disturbing slogan heard in the Kashmir Valley, where its young school-goers and old patriarchs, angry women and restive youth are courageously defying Indian rule, is enough to put off any sensitive sympathiser.* Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyaara Pakistan. (Starving and tattered India we reject; Pakistan - land of our dreams - we embrace.)*



DAWN.COM | Columnists | Kashmir?s struggle is just one of many fighting Indian injustices


----------



## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> *Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyaara Pakistan. (Starving and tattered India we reject; Pakistan - land of our dreams - we embrace.)*



and let me repeat this again.

Half the Hurriyat wants an independant Kashmir.

Neither a part of India nor Pakistan.

GB


----------



## Kinetic

Jana said:


> the world can who is a loser i dont need to resort to the personal attacks.



 Just see how the loser run away from replying my posts.... what a looser.... i think the worst... 



> Jana said:
> 
> 
> 
> Point the post where i have abused you unlike you who have no argument to hold on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This post of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian army in IoK is terrorist army simple as that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a loser simpler than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian army has invaded Kashmir and killing innocent Kashmiris and thats why you have seen even Kashmiri women picked up stones against your terrorist army
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go through the history of Kashmir and who invaded whom. Kashmir's king joined India. Women picking up stones is not new. Only you abuses us with 'terrorist', but everyone knows who is terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sure major part has been sent to a Country Kashmir for killing innocent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IA is in Kashmir just like any other part of India. IA is in more number in Kashmir because it faces militancy threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then why you needed accession at gun point
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol you want to do it now? Just like many other princely states JK joined India.
Click to expand...


*No reply!!!! *


> Jana said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lame try to justify occupation of Kashmir by India and killing of Kashmiris by Indian terrorist army.
> 
> 
> 
> lame try to hide from reality!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The common Kashmiri give a shyt if you pick up a puppet from Kashmir or not. All they care and voice is their protest for Azadi from Indian occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the common kashmiris give a shyt what you say. they voted them to power and your puppet geelani was also an MLA until he was brain washed like many other kahmiris in last 20 years. Kashmir was peaceful than.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its like having a Muslim president by India while millions of Muslims are being mascaraed by fanatic hindus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Million?  Much more Muslims died in Pakistan in the hands of Muslims than India.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jana said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah yeah Bhooka Nanga Hindustan slogan was raised by aliens not common Kashmiris
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

*Does anyone need more example!!!!*

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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> Gharibnawaz lolzz there are dozen threads on that topic so go there and discuss it. The Indians were begging us to have the aid lolzz
> anyway thats an off topic here.



Its not off topic as the same bhooka nanga Hindustan aided Pakistan.

Its the first time I am hearing that people actually beg others to accept their aid.

GB

---------- Post added at 07:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------




iRobot said:


> Let us keep that aid aspect out of discussion please, what we did was our duty as humans, nothing special.



If we are bhooka nanga and Pakistan is so prosperous, how come they had accepted aid from us?

That was the point.

GB

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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> Its not off topic as the same bhooka nanga Hindustan aided Pakistan.
> 
> Its the first time I am hearing that people actually beg others to accept their aid.
> 
> GB
> 
> ---------- Post added at 07:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> If we are bhooka nanga and Pakistan is so prosperous, how come they had accepted aid from us?
> 
> That was the point.
> 
> GB




That is certainly off topic here. 


Go and discuss that aid topic in a relevant thread.

Anyway for time being focus on Kashmir slogan 


Bhooka nanga Hindustan; Jaan se pyaara Pakistan. (Starving and tattered India we reject; Pakistan - land of our dreams - we embrace.). And as Arundhati said Kashmir needs Azadi from booka nanga Hindustan's occupation.


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## KALKI

^^ You have added another 'jewel' to your signature?


----------



## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> and let me repeat this again.
> 
> *Half the Hurriyat wants an independant Kashmir.
> 
> Neither a part of India nor Pakistan.*
> 
> GB



 We are ok with it. 

*Just let the Kashmiris decide what they want. *


----------



## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> We are ok with it.
> 
> *Just let the Kashmiris decide what they want. *



So how come you claim that the Kashmiri's reject bhooka nanga hindustan and embrace Pakistan?

Coz there is a fraction who wants independent Kashmir.

Coz National conference and many Kashmiri's want to remain with India.

Choose one stnad please. Dont change your colors.

GB

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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> So how come you claim that the Kashmiri's reject bhooka nanga hindustan and embrace Pakistan?
> 
> Coz there is a fraction who wants independent Kashmir.
> 
> Coz National conference and many Kashmiri's want to remain with India.
> 
> Choose one stnad please. Dont change your colors.
> 
> GB



Hold free fair plebiscite under International bodies and let the Kashmiris decide including these factions you claim want to join India.

Only then you can claim anything otherwise its just a ghisa pita Indian claim sans proofs.



The bhooka nanga slogan is raised by Kashmiris we dont calim anything yet.


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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> The bhooka nanga slogan is raised by Kashmiris we dont calim anything yet.



and yet you shamelessly accepted the aid from the same bhooka nanga people?

Didn't Pakistan or its people thought about Kashmiri's then?

Or there are separate logic at the time of recieving hard cash?



> Only then you can claim anything otherwise its just a ghisa pita Indian claim sans proofs.



The only people who oppose to polls are Separatists and Terrerists. Not us.

Gilani himself used to contest and win elections.

Sajjad Lone himself contested elections last year.

GB

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## aristocrat

^^U mean hold plebiscite in entire j&k right??
hows that possible now with 
1]no kashmiri pandits left in kashmir
2]U Already gifted a part to china
3]In indian side of kashmir specific laws were placed so that no demographic distortion takes place but on ur side ??[can post links to support this claim if u want]
4]Atrocities against sikhs and recent fatwa asking them to leave kashmir

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## garibnawaz

aristocrat said:


> ^^U mean hold plebiscite in entire j&k right??
> hows that possible now with
> 1]no kashmiri pandits left in kashmir
> 2]U Already gifted a part to china
> 3]In indian side of kashmir specific laws were placed so that no demographic distortion takes place but on ur side ??[can post links to support this claim if u want]



not to forget the atrocities against sikhs and a recent fatwa asking them to leave Kashmir.

GB

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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> and yet you shamelessly accepted the aid from the same bhooka nanga people?
> 
> Didn't Pakistan or its people thought about Kashmiri's then?
> 
> Or there are separate logic at the time of recieving hard cash?



Your rant aint going to make any influence. 

Your aid rhetoric has nothing to do with Kashmir issue. By your logic we should end diplomatic ties rather every kind of ties with India.






> The only people who oppose to polls are Separatists and Terrerists. Not us.
> 
> Gilani himself used to contest and win elections.
> 
> Sajjad Lone himself contested elections last year.
> 
> GB




If you are so confident then let come in the open and hold a plebiscite by your claims India will be winning 

If you are afraid to lose then it means


----------



## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> If you are so confident then let come in the open and hold a plebiscite by your claims India will be winning
> 
> If you are afraid to lose then it means



We have always hold free and fair elections. IF PDP can win and form Government anyone can including separatists.

Its the separatists who are running away from elections not GOI.

Let he separatists take part in elections and win. We will talk then.

If they can't dont come up with ifs and buts.



> Your rant aint going to make any influence.



It does.

If we are Bhooka Nanga Pakistan shouldn't be accepting any aid from the bhooka nangas.

If Pakistan accepts the aid from the Indians then we are not Bhooka Nanga. Pakistan has no right to call us the same.

If you say no its Kashmiri's who call you that, then again Pakistan shouldn't be accepting aid from India for honor the call.

Choose one. 

GB

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## LaBong

garibnawaz said:


> Does not talk about IPC.
> 
> Try again. Welcome to High Court of Jammu & Kashmir
> 
> What happpens when someone is caught stealing? Are his hands chopped?
> 
> What happened to those who were accused of rapes? Were they stoned?
> 
> What happens to a murderer? Don't they book him under 302?
> 
> GB



Kashmir state laws I guess don't follow Sharia, so stoning is irrelevant! But their Freedom of Expression is different than rest of India's Freedom of Expression.


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## garibnawaz

*Roy hurt by Kashmiri slogan: bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan*

_Ms Roy reminded the Kashmiris at the meeting that she was hurt by their slogan  bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan_

New Delhi: Indian writer and activist Arundhati Roy who has been canvassing for freedom of Jammu and Kashmir from years of military occupation said on Tuesday that far from seeking a break up of India, as alleged by her rightwing detractors, she fights for the love and pride of the people of India.

Amid reports that the Indian government had given permission for her arrest for alleged sedition following her recent call for justice for all Kashmiris, Ms Roy, who is currently on a visit to the Valley said in a statement to the Indian media that it would be a sad day for her country if its writers were jailed for expressing their ideas while communal killers, mass murderers, corporate scamsters roamed free.

Some rightwing newspapers and TV channels close to the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) have been campaigning for her arrest after she addressed a meeting on Kashmir in New Delhi last week at which Kashmiri leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani reiterated his call for azadi.

Ms Roy reminded the Kashmiris at the meeting that she was hurt by their slogan  bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan  saying that the slogan insulted the poor masses of India. But some reports distorted this, and the headlines screamed that she had asked for secession from poverty-stricken India.

Analysts recalled that senior Indian leader Jaiprakash Narayan had once called for the Indian army to revolt against the autocratic government of then prime minister Indira Gandhi. The BJP had supported him then. Mr Narayan was subsequently celebrated as Lok Nayak, or peoples leader. There is nothing rigid about the law on sedition. It is always a political choice on who you want to target, said a senior lawyer. Right now Arundhati Roy is in everyones crosshairs. She has dared to take on powerful corporate interests and has even exposed their link with the powerful home minister.

Following is the text of the statement emailed by Ms Roy to Indian newspapers and TV channels.

I write this from Srinagar, Kashmir. This mornings papers say that I may be arrested on charges of sedition for what I have said at recent public meetings on Kashmir. I said what millions of people here say every day. I said what I, as well as other commentators have written and said for years. Anybody who cares to read the transcripts of my speeches will see that they were fundamentally a call for justice. I spoke about justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal military occupations in the world; for Kashmiri Pandits who live out the tragedy of having been driven out of their homeland; for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore; for the Indian poor who pay the price of this occupation in material ways and who are now learning to live in the terror of what is becoming a police state.

Yesterday I traveled to Shopian, the apple-town in South Kashmir which had remained closed for 47 days last year in protest against the brutal **** and murder of Asiya and Nilofer, the young women whose bodies were found in a shallow stream near their homes and whose murderers have still not been brought to justice. I met Shakeel, who is Nilofers husband and Asiyas brother. We sat in a circle of people crazed with grief and anger who had lost hope that they would ever get insaaf justice  from India, and now believed that Azadi  freedom  was their only hope. I met young stone pelters who had been shot through their eyes. I traveled with a young man who told me how three of his friends, teenagers in Anantnag district, had been taken into custody and had their finger-nails pulled out as punishment for throwing stones.

In the papers some have accused me of giving hate-speeches, of wanting India to break up. On the contrary, what I say comes from love and pride. It comes from not wanting people to be killed, raped, imprisoned or have their finger-nails pulled out in order to force them to say they are Indians. It comes from wanting to live in a society that is striving to be a just one. Pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice, while communal killers, mass murderers, corporate scamsters, looters, rapists, and those who prey on the poorest of the poor, roam free.

Roy hurt by Kashmiri slogan: &#8216;bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan&#8217;|Islamabad Globe

GB


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## LaBong

Look the Bhukha Nanga argument is moot point and a bigoted slogan. 

Govt of India doesn't take a penny away from Kashmir, mainly because there's nothing to take except from apples and goats. Rather GoI pumps astronomical amount to Kashmir to 'buy' loyalty. Not sure, if that ends up to few people pocket or development works been carried out. 

Kashmiris are stupid bunch. First they let Pakistan to kidnap and thus invalidate the whole struggle by their bigoted acts in early 90s when they thought they can replicate an Afghanistan here using mujahideen. Now they chant 'bhukha nanga' which will be backfired on them.


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## LaBong

garibnawaz said:


> *Roy hurt by Kashmiri slogan: &#8216;bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan&#8217;*
> 
> _Ms Roy reminded the Kashmiris at the meeting that she was hurt by their slogan &#8211; bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan_
> Roy hurt by Kashmiri slogan: &#8216;bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan&#8217;|Islamabad Globe
> 
> GB



Just like I said. 



Abir said:


> Actually 'bhooka nanga hindustan' was coined by Kashmiris originally. I think what Arundhuti was trying to say here, that India should be free from unnecessary hatred of Kashmiris(I hope it's true even though next part of her rambling doesn't align to my believe. 800 millions people living in 20 rs is totally her musing).
> 
> Even if this is what she was trying to say, for someone having an articulating skill like her, her choice of words is garbage and should be used to wipe the wrong end of one's body.


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## marcos98

Jana said:


> Your rant aint going to make any influence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are so confident then let come in the open and hold a plebiscite by your claims India will be winning
> 
> If you are afraid to lose then it means


 
yeah . your rants are gonna make a whole lot of influence.

read this:



> * India holds that the Instrument of Accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India, signed by the Maharaja Hari Singh (erstwhile ruler of the State) on 26 October 1947, was completely valid in terms of the Government of India Act (1935), Indian Independence Act (1947) and international law and was total and irrevocable.
> 
> * The Constituent assembly of Jammu and Kashmir had unanimously ratified the Maharaja's Instrument of Accession to India and had adopted a constitution for the state that called for a perpetual merger of the state with the Union of India. India claims that this body was a representative one, and that its views were those of the Kashmiri people at the time.
> 
> * *United Nations Security Council Resolution 1172 tacitly accepts India's stand regarding all outstanding issues between India and Pakistan and urges the need to resolve the dispute through mutual dialogue and does not call for a plebiscite.*
> 
> * *United Nations Security Council Resolution 47 cannot be implemented since Pakistan failed to withdraw its forces from Kashmir which was the first step in implementing the resolution*.Now the resolution is obsolete since the geography and demographics of the region have been permanently altered. The resolution was passed by United Nations Security Council under Chapter VI of the United Nations Charter. Resolutions passed under Chapter VI of UN charter are considered non binding and have no mandatory enforceability as opposed to the resolutions passed under Chapter VII.


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## Subramanian

Jana said:


> Communists in India are Indians. Right?
> 
> What is wrong with communists then ?



Nothing wrong with communists.Their economic theories and attempts at revolution has already failed.These people are classic pseudo secularists and are agents of the church who are paid to malign the image of hinduism.Not to forget they are whores who have no integrity of opinion.


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## Subramanian

Asim Aquil said:


> Militants kill Indian army people, which should be lauded, not condemned.
> 
> Condemnation should be given to the GoI who is sending your army people into harms way. Your people are forcefully in Kashmir, Kashmiris are not coming to New Delhi and killing your people.



They killed our people (Pandits,Dogris) in the last 50 years and they have been slaughtering our people and converting them for the past 600 years in Kashmir.


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## LaBong

Subramanian said:


> Nothing wrong with communists.Their economic theories and attempts at revolution has already failed.These people are classic pseudo secularists and are agents of the church who are paid to malign the image of hinduism.Not to forget they are whores who have no integrity of opinion.



And also pigs do have wings, sometimes they even fly!


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## Subramanian

Jana said:


> *I pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice: Arundhati Roy*
> 
> 
> Writer Arundhati Roy, who is in the thick of a sedition controversy over her speeches on Kashmir, issued this statement from Srinagar:
> 
> *"I write this from Srinagar, Kashmir. This morning's papers say that I may be arrested on charges of sedition for what I have said at recent public meetings on Kashmir. I said what millions of people here say every day. I said what I, as well as other commentators have written and said for years. Anybody who cares to read the transcripts of my speeches will see that they were fundamentally a call for justice. I spoke about justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal military occupations in the world; for Kashmiri Pandits who live out the tragedy of having been driven out of their homeland; for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore; *for the Indian poor who pay the price of this occupation in material ways and who are now learning to live in the terror of what is becoming a police state.
> 
> Yesterday I traveled to Shopian, the apple-town in South Kashmir which had remained closed for 47 days last year in protest against the brutal **** and murder of Asiya and Nilofer, the young women whose bodies were found in a shallow stream near their homes and whose murderers have still not been brought to justice*. I met Shakeel, who is Nilofer's husband and Asiya's brother. We sat in a circle of people crazed with grief and anger who had lost hope that they would ever get 'insaf'justicefrom India, and now believed that Azadifreedom was their only hope*.
> *
> I met young stone pelters who had been shot through their eyes. I traveled with a young man who told me how three of his friends, teenagers in Anantnag district, had been taken into custody and had their finger-nails pulled out as punishment for throwing stones.*
> 
> In the papers some have accused me of giving 'hate-speeches', of wanting India to break up. On the contrary, what I say comes from love and pride. It comes from not wanting people to be killed, raped, imprisoned or have their finger-nails pulled out in order to force them to say they are Indians. It comes from wanting to live in a society that is striving to be a just one. *Pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice, while communal killers, mass murderers, corporate scamsters, looters, rapists, and those who prey on the poorest of the poor, roam free."
> *
> Arundhati Roy
> October 26 2010
> 
> Read more: I pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice: Arundhati Roy - The Times of India I pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice: Arundhati Roy - The Times of India




I pity rich sassy bitches who dont have the balls to pick up a gun and force a revolution or open their mouth without pragmatic thoughts in their head.


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## Spring Onion

Subramanian said:


> *I pity rich sassy bitches *who dont have the balls to pick up a gun and force a revolution or open their mouth without pragmatic thoughts in their head.



 Its her pragmatic thoughts which have made you so much frustrated that you have resorted to uncivlised language now imagine if such women take up guns what will be your condition .

*The bottom line is Some women are capable enough to bring revolution even without guns *


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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> We have always hold free and fair elections. IF PDP can win and form Government anyone can including separatists.
> 
> Its the separatists who are running away from elections not GOI.
> 
> Let he separatists take part in elections and win. We will talk then.
> 
> If they can't dont come up with ifs and buts.



If bharti election mantra was accepted by Kashmiris then you would not have to put million forces there.

Stop the Indian lies and hold plebiscite under foreign bodies and then i will accept your rants if India won 


.



> If Pakistan accepts the aid from the Indians then we are not Bhooka Nanga. Pakistan has no right to call us the same.




we dont call you. Its another matter that Kashmiris called you that and your writer had translated it into English 



> If you say no its Kashmiri's who call you that, then again Pakistan shouldn't be accepting aid from India for honor the call.
> 
> Choose one.
> 
> GB



If it was up to Pakistan (read its people we would not have accepted) on the other hands bhartis were trying everything to make us accept it.

The point scoring opportunity got lost by you there.
*
Above all stop your BS about aid is useless because Pakistan had already sent Aid to bhooka nanga bharat on the occasion of Bhoj earthquake.

So its 50 50 on both sides.*


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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> *Roy hurt by Kashmiri slogan: &#8216;bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan&#8217;*
> 
> _Ms Roy reminded the Kashmiris at the meeting that she was hurt by their slogan &#8211; bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan_
> 
> 
> Roy hurt by Kashmiri slogan: &#8216;bhooka nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan&#8217;|Islamabad Globe
> 
> GB


 oh ROFL hahahahahhaha so the Lady which you bhartis were insulting calling her different names has suddenly become a source of solace for Bhartis.


Bwahahahahahahahahah


BTW your post atleast showed that Kashmiris did raise this slogan


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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> *The bottom line is Some women are capable enough to bring revolution even without guns *



Such as?

Arundhati Roy is doing a lip service and not brining any revolution.

Refer the earlier posts and news in which she mentions about love and not revolutions.

Feel free to give other examples as well.

GB

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## Spring Onion

garibnawaz said:


> Such as?
> 
> Arundhati Roy is doing a lip service and not brining any revolution.
> 
> Refer the earlier posts and news in which she mentions about love and not revolutions.
> 
> Feel free to give other examples as well.
> 
> GB



neither she had claimed to bring any revolution. It was your bhrati member who was talking about something.

On the other hand Arundhati is playing her role by voicing for the oppressed people.

Thats her contribution it does not need guns always to take up for raising voice


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## Kashmiri Nationalist

garibnawaz said:


> not to forget the atrocities against sikhs and a recent fatwa asking them to leave Kashmir.
> 
> GB



Which was sent by an "anonymous" sender, the Hurriyat rejected and the same fatwa of which nothing has come.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

''Pulling Fingernails Won&#8217;t Turn Kashmiris Into Indians''


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## LaBong

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> ''Pulling Fingernails Wont Turn Kashmiris Into Indians''



Are they now claiming an Arab origin or projecting them as white eh?


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## garibnawaz

Jana said:


> neither she had claimed to bring any revolution. It was your bhrati member who was talking about something.
> 
> On the other hand Arundhati is playing her role by voicing for the oppressed people.
> 
> Thats her contribution it does not need guns always to take up for raising voice



She:
Supports Kashmiri separatism
Supports Naxals.

And also she is:
Against death sentence for the terrorists of 2001 Indian Parliament attack
Against Sardar Sarovar Project.
Against Indo-US relations.
Against India's nuclear weaponisation.
Against Indo-Israel relations.

She can do anything to get cheap Publicity...

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## nForce

garibnawaz said:


> She:
> Supports Kashmiri separatism
> Supports Naxals.
> 
> And also she is:
> Against death sentence for the terrorists of 2001 Indian Parliament attack
> Against Sardar Sarovar Project.
> Against Indo-US relations.
> Against India's nuclear weaponisation.
> Against Indo-Israel relations.
> 
> She can do anything to get cheap Publicity...



She has been given a free hand for quite some time which she has utilized to build her image as a social activist.Going against the tide do draw some attention.
This time she has landed herself in serious trouble.The 'Sedition' charges will tone her down.


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## Peshwa

Jana said:


> If bharti election mantra was accepted by Kashmiris then you would not have to put million forces there.
> 
> Stop the Indian lies and hold plebiscite under foreign bodies and then i will accept your rants if India won



Our forces are there to prevent underhanded backstabbing incidents such as Kargil...Not to suppress the Kashmiris....

Of course you Pakistani hypocrites and liars remember an outdated non binding UNSC resolution...but easily forget the Simla agreement and its tenants that your leadership begged us to sign....

Formenting trouble (terrorism) and unilateral attempts at changing boundaries (kargil) is violation of our agreement....
You people have no shame nor the right to criticize our military presence in Kashmir which is solely to prevent Kashmir from a military invasion...which Kargil is a glaring example of....

Secondly.....Its the local police that has been jousting the stone pelters...NOT the army....Trust me.....not one stone pelter would be on the streets if the Army showed up in Srinagar....


.






> we dont call you. Its another matter that Kashmiris called you that and your writer had translated it into English



Frankly, what some Kashmiris call India "Bhooka Nanga" makes sh!t difference.....
The world is well aware of reality of what Pakistan is and how "prosperous" it really is....in fact its quite laughable that except for a few Kashmiris on Pak payroll.....nobody seems to think of Pakistan anything close to "Land of Dreams"...
So I can see how a few Kashmiris being the only ones with these delusions can sound like music to your ears...



> *
> Above all stop your BS about aid is useless because Pakistan had already sent Aid to bhooka nanga bharat on the occasion of Bhoj earthquake.
> 
> So its 50 50 on both sides.*



Hold on...source of info please? 
Never heard of this.....especially aid worth 5Million +

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## garibnawaz

Peshwa said:


> Hold on...source of info please?
> Never heard of this.....especially aid worth 5Million +



They had sent a C-130 full of aid material against which we sent 2+ Il-76's after 2005 earth quake in Pakistan.

Now in 2010 disaster the aid was 30million.

This is what Jana calls 50-50.

What a mathematics.

GB

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## Peshwa

garibnawaz said:


> They had sent a C-130 full of aid material against which we sent 2+ Il-76's after 2005 earth quake in Pakistan.
> 
> Now in 2010 disaster the aid was 30million.
> 
> This is what Jana calls 50-50.
> 
> What a mathematics.
> 
> GB



Seems lack of education is another persistant problem in Pakistan......

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## garibnawaz

Peshwa said:


> Seems lack of education is another persistant problem in Pakistan......



Forget 30 million for a minute.

If I compare 1 C-130 against 2 Il-76's its not 50-50.

or

even If I compare 1 C-130 against 1 Il-76 its not 50-50.

Yet what we get in return?

We are bhooka nanga's.

GB

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## Peshwa

garibnawaz said:


> Forget 30 million for a minute.
> 
> If I compare 1 C-130 against 2 Il-76's its not 50-50.
> 
> or
> 
> even If I compare 1 C-130 against 1 Il-76 its not 50-50.
> 
> Yet what we get in return?
> 
> We are bhooka nanga's.
> 
> GB



Honestly.....Pakistan calling India Bhooka Nanga is nothing more than "Pot Calling the Kettle Black"....

Besides.....in the last 63 years, when was the last time anyone paid heed to their diatribes wrt. India?
Has it changed now? NO! Plus we all know reality....

So lets learn to ignore......acknowledgement and attention gives them motivation!


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## JohnP

what do these words mean - azadi from bhookhe nange hindustan?


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## Fighter488

*Why Arundhati Roy may not be charged with sedition​*
Nazir Masoodi, Updated: October 26, 2010 22:06 IST 



Read more at: Why Arundhati Roy may not be charged with sedition

*New Delhi/Srinagar*: First came the calls for azaadi by separatist Syed Ali Shah Geelani and writer-activist Arundhati Roy. Then came rowdy interruptions by a group of Kashmiri Pandits and workers of the Akhil Bharti Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP), the youth wing of the BJP.

"Kashmir has never been an integral part of India," said Roy, provoking the BJP to demand that she, along with Geelani, be charged with sedition. Others jumped to her defense, arguing this was an example of democracy on full display.

The storm erupted as the government's panel of interlocutors was in the Kashmir valley, trying to kickstart a political process.

The headlines shifted from them to Roy once she reached Srinagar over the weekend, stating at a closed-door event, *"After attaining freedom from the British, India itself has become a colonial power."*

*The BJP reasserted its demand.* "There is a perfect case against Arundhati Roy and Geelani of sedition and that's why we have also today demanded that they should be arrested," said the party's spokesperson, Prakash Javadekar.

*The interlocutors, navigating their way through a political minefield, say this would be an over-reaction.*

"We should see through this attempt by some people to get noticed... we should not be provoked," said Dileep Padgaonkar.

The government concedes that legally, it has possible grounds for action. "The remarks by Ms Roy and Geelani are not in good taste. And let me tell you frankly, we are concerned," Union Law Minister Veerappa Moily said.

*But privately, government sources say acting against the internationally-famous author or Geelani wouldn't be smart politics at a time when the government is struggling to control the unrest and violence that ravaged the Valley till recently.*

As the interlocutors meet everyone from jailed militants to young students, the separatist statement is one they will have to contend with.

"We simply told them that people here are demanding freedom - and they are genuine," says Nida, a student.

Faced with a possible sedition case, Arundhati Roy, who has famously called herself "an independent, mobile republic", threw the gauntlet back at the Indian state, saying *"What I say comes from love and pride. It comes from not wanting people to be killed, raped, imprisoned or have their finger-nails pulled out in order to force them to say they are Indians... Pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds." [/B](Read: Arundhati Roy's statement on possible sedition case)

As India debates whether democracy should permit dissent even if it challenges the very entity of the nation state, in the Valley, the real concern is that the row over Roy may further weaken an already-fragile peace process eve.

Why Arundhati Roy may not be charged with sedition*


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## Urbanized Greyhound

> As India debates whether democracy should permit dissent even if it challenges the very entity of the nation state, in the Valley, the real concern is that the row over Roy may further weaken an already-fragile peace process eve.



wonder what there is to debate on this point.If we style ourselves a western type democracy with tolerance for all then ,one of the cornerstones for the survival of such a democracy is that the Unity and integrity of the state is to be protected. Every single democracy from the U.S to Britain to all the EU spells out this explicitly, in our extreme love of freedom of expression it is suicidal to compromise in such a way, after all we still developing. Roy and Geelani should be slapped with a couple of sedition cases without delay.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

JohnP said:


> what do these words mean - azadi from bhookhe nange hindustan?



translation : Freedom from hungry,naked India


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## Abu Zolfiqar

why should Geelani be charged under laws that have no jurisdiction in occupied Kashmir


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## StingRoy

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> why should Geelani be charged under laws that have no jurisdiction in occupied Kashmir



Simply because he is an Indian Citizen having an Indian passport.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

i'm sorry, i don't subscribe to that....

and why would indians insist on allowing a 'seditioner' (as you call him) to have your indian citizenship


is it so cheap and easy to have one? Even for those who are ardently opposed to your occupation, and whose constituents and backers feel the same way?


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## Peshwa

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> why should Geelani be charged under laws that have no jurisdiction in occupied Kashmir



Well why should the "free people" of Pakistan occupied Kashmir have to bear laws such as the below?

Similarly....Indian Kashmir is governed by Indian laws....and as long as Geelani lives on this side and hold the passport with the Ashoka emblem....he will be treated as any other Indian..



> The constitution of Azad Kashmir poses major impediments towards
> 
> genuine democracy as it bars all those parties and individuals from
> 
> participating in the political process who do not support the idea of
> 
> Kashmir&rsquo;s accession to Pakistan and hence precludes all those who are
> 
> in favor of Kashmiri independence. To fail to support, or fail to
> 
> appear to support Kashmir&rsquo;s accession to Pakistan means to invite the
> 
> ire of Pakistan&rsquo;s abusive intelligence agencies and its military. It
> 
> also entails inviting political persecution, such as ineligibility to
> 
> contest elections or to seek employment with any government
> 
> institution, or the curtailing of basic freedom of expression. (These
> 
> issues are explored in more detail in Chapters IV and V, below.)


http://www.kashmiri.info/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=1050

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## majesticpankaj

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i'm sorry, i don't subscribe to that....
> 
> and why would indians insist on allowing a 'seditioner' (as you call him) to have your indian citizenship
> 
> 
> is it so cheap and easy to have one? Even for those who are ardently opposed to your occupation, and whose constituents and backers feel the same way?


lo...in pakistan, people needs to take citizenship, even he/she is born in pakistan from pakistani parents..lol


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## LaBong

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i'm sorry, i don't subscribe to that....
> 
> and why would indians insist on allowing a 'seditioner' (as you call him) to have your indian citizenship
> 
> 
> is it so cheap and easy to have one? Even for those who are ardently opposed to your occupation, and whose constituents and backers feel the same way?



Cheap indeed! India even pay geelanis medical bill keeping other indians bhokha nanga!

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## Urbanized Greyhound

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i'm sorry, i don't subscribe to that....
> 
> *and why would indians insist on allowing a 'seditioner' (as you call him) to have your indian citizenship
> *
> 
> is it so cheap and easy to have one? Even for those who are ardently opposed to your occupation, and whose constituents and backers feel the same way?



If it was that simple then this Arundhuti Roy and Hurriyat separatism problem should have been solved long ago but governments and societies dont work that way do they ? which is why the citizenship is never revoked but citizens are tried for breaking laws . for instance the Pakistan Government does not revoke Nawab Bugti jnr 's Pakistani citizenship does it ?


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## StingRoy

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i'm sorry, i don't subscribe to that....
> 
> and why would indians insist on allowing a 'seditioner' (as you call him) to have your indian citizenship
> 
> is it so cheap and easy to have one? Even for those who are ardently opposed to your occupation, and whose constituents and backers feel the same way?



He is an Indian citizen by birth and/or ancestral origin... you may not subscribe to this opinion but the fact of the matter is that he holds an Indian passport and is on the Indian electoral rolls. He has to follow the same rules as rest of India does.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

majesticpankaj said:


> lo...in pakistan, people needs to take citizenship, even he/she is born in pakistan from pakistani parents..lol



exactly; but occupied Kashmir isn't indian and therefore Mr. Geelani and the likes needn't worry about being 'considered' traitors when they are ardently opposed and openly unwilling to be a part of ''your system''

he is in total defiance of bharat, as are the people of Kashmir


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Peshwa said:


> Well why should the "free people" of Pakistan occupied Kashmir have to bear laws such as the below?



how interesting that you would resort to citing an article by Fouq Library, which incidentally also ran reports like the one below regarding bharti occupied Kashmir (which is where all the unrest is taking place unabated)

Fouq Libarary




> Similarly....Indian Kashmir is governed by Indian laws....and as long as Geelani lives on this side and hold the passport with the Ashoka emblem....he will be treated as any other Indian..



therein lies the irony....they arent begging for your citizenship. you are trying to force it down their throats, and it sure as hell aint working! 



My advice to you would be to read the Constitution of Azad J&K. That's right, they have their own Constitution (their own flag too). Azad J & K is fairly autonomous, though it does get backing, diplomatic and full moral support from Pakistan (which is the same case with occupied Kashmir as well)


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## KS

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> My advice to you would be to *read the Constitution of Azad J&K. *That's right, they have their own Constitution (their own flag too). Azad J & K is fairly autonomous, though it does get backing, diplomatic and full moral support from Pakistan (which is the same case with occupied Kashmir as well)



I just started to read and stopped when I read this,



> "That as a President of Azad Jammu and Kashmir I will remain loyal to the country and to the cause of accession of the State of Jammu & Kashmir to Pakistan". - Oath of President of "Azad" Jammu Kashmir



Really Azad,I must say..

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## Dash

All of those who think Kashmir will be freed from India, just forget about it. I am not talking abt Azad kashmir.

ULFA was threat one day, now its silent. Naxals have reduced their activities and under control. Gilani will be arrested in few days. Kashmir's protest will also be under control.

There is no doubt it. and this self-appointed Human activist can say anything she wants. We wil only listen what we want listen.

Roy is making so much fun of herself


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## INDIAN007

This women *Arundhati Roy* is Attention - seeker
she has gone way 2 far ...

legally she should face *Sedetion charges*

But Just as a govt official On media said yesterday *" IGNORE HER "*

My question to arundhati roy....she supports kashmiri seperatist...she call India a colonising power....she abuses our Armed forces.....she supports Naxal.....but when a Militant kill our Army soldier...or when a Naxalite kill our jawan...what About them....what about greivences of their Family ??? .....


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## Peshwa

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> how interesting that you would resort to citing an article by Fouq Library, which incidentally also ran reports like the one below regarding bharti occupied Kashmir (which is where all the unrest is taking place unabated)
> 
> Fouq Libarary



Typical that you digress from topic to hide your duplicity....

The fact is, "Azad" Kashmir is the biggest exhaggeration of reality....

I think Ive sufficiently answered your question as to why Geelani and his arrest are completely legal...... that the people accusing us have no locus standi on the issue due to their blatant hypocrisy



> therein lies the irony....they arent begging for your citizenship. you are trying to force it down their throats, and it sure as hell aint working!



No one is forcing them to do squat......They dont have to be Indian citizens....but on this side of the fence, its our law that reigns supreme...
We have no problem with Geelani and his ilk choosing foreign citizenship....but then they cant choose to live on Indian lands...



> My advice to you would be to read the Constitution of Azad J&K. That's right, they have their own Constitution (their own flag too). Azad J & K is fairly autonomous, though it does get backing, diplomatic and full moral support from Pakistan (which is the same case with occupied Kashmir as well)



Trust me....Im well aware of the Pakistani constitution of "Azad" Kashmir....its the single biggest lie sold to a people to further your own agenda...

"You can polish a turd, but it'll still be Sh!t"

Please sell your lies to poor uneducated masses of P-O-K....this is what you're good at and have been doing for a while now....

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## RamGorur

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> why should Geelani be charged under laws that have no jurisdiction in occupied Kashmir


Because the genius made his comments in Delhi, where the IPC has jurisdiction.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

RamGorur said:


> Because the genius made his comments in Delhi, where the IPC has jurisdiction.



as i have just ascertained a few minutes back.....I wish I had more hands; so i could give him more thumbs up for tenaciously standing by his long-asserted position, even in the occupying entity that is foreign to him and his people


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## RamGorur

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> therein lies the irony....they arent begging for your citizenship. you are trying to force it down their throats, and it sure as hell aint working!


Geelani would be more than welcome to denounce his Indian citizenship and become citizen of any other country, if he so chooses. 

But we are not getting that lucky, are we?



> My advice to you would be to read the Constitution of Azad J&K. That's right, they have their own Constitution (their own flag too). Azad J & K is fairly autonomous, though it does get backing, diplomatic and full moral support from Pakistan (which is the same case with occupied Kashmir as well)


I am pretty sure that you haven't read that document yourself. If you had you would have realised how the Constitution of 'Azad' Kashmir is subservient to Pakistani Constitution.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Peshwa said:


> No one is forcing them to do squat......They dont have to be Indian citizens....but on this side of the fence, its our law that reigns supreme...



clearly not; though that may be wishful thinking

by the way, you can't just tell people not to live there when those are their lands and their identity




> We have no problem with Geelani and his ilk choosing foreign citizenship....but then they cant choose to live on Indian lands...



those aren't ''indian lands''


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## RamGorur

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> as i have just ascertained a few minutes back.....I wish I had more hands; so i could give him more thumbs up for tenaciously standing by his long-asserted position, even in the occupying entity that is foreign to him and his people


Geelani sahib has a funny way of fighting 'the occupying entity'. While he fights it, he doesn't hesitate to grab with both hands all the perks extended to him by the same 'occupying entity', like all expense paid medical benefit. Strangely enough, rejecting such handouts by his foe doesn't cross his fertile brain.

He is a unique 'rebel'.

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## RamGorur

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> by the way, you can't just tell people not to live there when those are their lands and their identity.


Sure you can, at least in South Asia. Jinnah sahib taught us that.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

RamGorur said:


> Sure you can, at least in South Asia. Jinnah sahib taught us that.



what a PATHETIC attempt to deflect the attention away from the topic; not to mention the fact that there are huge numbers of Pakistanis who were always indigenous to where they are today.

Partition changed the rules; and said partition took place despite all odds against Jinnah Saab --not limited to just the hullabaloo of congress and its britisher backers


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## Jackdaws

Sigh. Miss Roy has a problem with everyone. Keep her in Pakistan for a month and see how much she will tell you to run your country and try to speak for the oppressed people. I have no doubt that she actually means well. Kinda like Mussolini did. I also have no doubt that she is completely insane. Kinda like Mussolini was.


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## Jackdaws

Abu, 

For the sake of India and Indian democracy I hope they do not slap sedition charges. Sedition should be a crime but talking of sedition because you are disaffected by the state should not. It should be protected under "free speech".


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## Peshwa

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> by the way, you can't just tell people not to live there when those are their lands and their identity



Sure we can....if partition can take place once...it can again...

Dont expect us to forget that our grandparents had to leave their land and property to accomodate Pakistan....Why do the rulees not apply to Kashmiris.? I dont think Kashmiris are that special....

Besides....leaving Indian Kashmir does not indicate a loss of identity in any way.....

I am completely in favor of turning LOC into IB and having a second partition.....

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## RamGorur

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> what a PATHETIC attempt to deflect the attention away from the topic; not to mention the fact that there are huge numbers of Pakistanis who were always indigenous to where they are today.


It is only a certain section of Pakistanis that call Kashmir an unfinished agenda of partition. But then when one reminds them of what happened during partition, suddenly it is a 'pathetic attempt to deflect attention'. 

Regardless of how many Pakistanis were autochthonous to the land which today constitutes Pakistan, the fact remains, that millions of people were displaced, almost overnight, from their own ancestral lands, as they were forced to make a choice between their past and future. If that could happen then, and you people consider Kashmir to be an unfinished agenda of the same partition, why are you averse to the idea of a section of Kashmiris, like Geelani, migrating to Pakistan. Since you are concerned with their well being, and not interested in the land they hold in India, isn't it a perfect solution.

Remember, a State owns the land, not the people that live on it. 


> Partition changed the rules; and said partition took place despite all odds against Jinnah Saab --not limited to just the hullabaloo of congress and its britisher backers


So whats stopping from another partition - partition of Kashmir. Let LoC be IB and then give a certain period of time, say a period of 12 months from a cut-off date, to the Kashmiris of both the sides to migrate to the other side.

That way you can have all your beloved Geelanis, because after all, you are not interested in their land. Its the people that matter, isn't it?

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## Abu Zolfiqar

he's welcome to come to Pakistan anytime he likes, but that doesnt solve the issue at hand does it?

and Kashmir isn't an issue about hindu or Muslim; it's an issue about justice (lack thereof?)

no need to put words in people's eyes or mouthes -- you know what the issue is already. 

and yes couldnt agree more; it is unfinished business


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Jackdaws said:


> Sigh. Miss Roy has a problem with everyone. Keep her in Pakistan for a month and see how much she will tell you to run your country and try to speak for the oppressed people. I have no doubt that she actually means well. Kinda like Mussolini did. I also have no doubt that she is completely insane. Kinda like Mussolini was.



you have access to her medical records?


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## Ganguly

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> *he's *welcome to come to Pakistan anytime *he *likes, but that doesnt solve the issue at hand does it?
> 
> and Kashmir isn't an issue about hindu or Muslim; it's an issue about justice (lack thereof?)
> 
> no need to put words in people's eyes or mouthes -- you know what the issue is already.
> 
> and yes couldnt agree more; it is unfinished business



You mean to say Arundhuti Roy is welcome in Pakistan only if she does a major operation for gender change


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## Abu Zolfiqar

i dont have much information or experience in that sector; maybe you could give some insights


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## KALKI

Peshwa said:


> Sure we can....if partition can take place once...it can again...
> 
> Dont expect us to forget that our grandparents had to leave their land and property to accomodate Pakistan....Why do the rulees not apply to Kashmiris.? I dont think Kashmiris are that special....
> 
> Besides....leaving Indian Kashmir does not indicate a loss of identity in any way.....
> 
> I am completely in favor of turning LOC into IB and having a second partition.....



*Reply of the week!*

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## LaBong

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> you have access to her medical records?



Apparently Geelani sahib needed his kidney chopped off, but United States of America has a policy of not letting trouble makers to enter their territory, so they refused visa! 

Jaan se payara Pakistan didn't have the infra to carry on the operation as well! 

So in the end, it was 'Bhuka Nanga Hindustan' who came to save the day. More power to stone pelters. \m/

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## Subramanian

Peshwa said:


> Sure we can....if partition can take place once...it can again...
> 
> Dont expect us to forget that our grandparents had to leave their land and property to accomodate Pakistan....Why do the rulees not apply to Kashmiris.? I dont think Kashmiris are that special....
> 
> Besides....leaving Indian Kashmir does not indicate a loss of identity in any way.....
> 
> I am completely in favor of turning LOC into IB and having a second partition.....




scrapping article 377 is a must and a straightfroward thing.


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## Subramanian

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> he's welcome to come to Pakistan anytime he likes, but that doesnt solve the issue at hand does it?
> 
> and Kashmir isn't an issue about hindu or Muslim; it's an issue about justice (lack thereof?)
> 
> no need to put words in people's eyes or mouthes -- you know what the issue is already.
> 
> and yes couldnt agree more; it is unfinished business



Ok,take kashmir and give us punjab and sindh.anyway what business do muslims have in plains,u can live happily in the mountains raising sheep and goats.


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## Urbanized Greyhound

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> what a PATHETIC attempt to deflect the attention away from the topic; not to mention the fact that there are huge numbers of Pakistanis who were always indigenous to where they are today.
> 
> *Partition changed the rules; and said partition took place despite all odds against Jinnah Saab *--not limited to just the hullabaloo of congress and its britisher backers



the basis for partition according to jinnah was that hindus and muslims would never be able to co-exist side by side.This was rejected outright by the Congress , but when Jinnah started the mass -slaughter of Hindus , as a result of Direct Action in Noakhali etc. , the congress was forced to accede to his demands to prevent further bloodshed .........

Geelani appears to be following in his footsteps ......first ethnically cleansing the Hindu Kashmiri Pandit Population by state -sponsored militancy, then instigating deadly riots and arranging for the deaths of hundreds of civilians.......


only this time the GOI would not be giving up any land under pressure by a bunch of thugs .We learn from history and past mistakes u know.....*so rest assured our position on Territorial Integrity will remain the same till Kingdom come........ *


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## Jackdaws

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> you have access to her medical records?



I can neither confirm nor deny this access.


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## Bill Longley

Subramanian said:


> Ok,take kashmir and give us punjab and sindh.anyway what business do muslims have in plains,u can live happily in the mountains raising sheep and goats.



is this the best you can come up kiddio


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## Bill Longley

Urbanized Greyhound said:


> the basis for partition according to jinnah was that hindus and muslims would never be able to co-exist side by side.This was rejected outright by the Congress , but when Jinnah started the mass -slaughter of Hindus , as a result of Direct Action in Noakhali etc. , the congress was forced to accede to his demands to prevent further bloodshed .........
> 
> Geelani appears to be following in his footsteps ......first ethnically cleansing the Hindu Kashmiri Pandit Population by state -sponsored militancy, then instigating deadly riots and arranging for the deaths of hundreds of civilians.......
> 
> 
> only this time the GOI would not be giving up any land under pressure by a bunch of thugs .We learn from history and past mistakes u know.....*so rest assured our position on Territorial Integrity will remain the same till Kingdom come........ *



Indian bunya never give any thing we know his meaness thats why we see people of india fighting for rights
I mean look at kashmir , assam and Maoist areas. what a disgrace to mean Banya


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## Von Hölle

Bill Longley said:


> Indian bunya never give any thing we know his meaness thats why we see people of india fighting for rights
> I mean look at kashmir , assam and Maoist areas. what a disgrace to mean Banya


 

Though have given up hope for hearing anything intelligible from you, *please formulate a sentence which is atleast comprehensible*, all I could make out of above was.. Indian Banya, Maoist , Kashmir , Assam.


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## Bhairava

Bill Longley said:


> Indian *bunya *never give any thing we know his meaness thats why we see people of india fighting for rights
> I mean look at kashmir , assam and Maoist areas. what a disgrace to *mean Banya*



Will it be offensive for you if I call you a cave -dweller ??

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## Bill Longley

Gounder said:


> Will it be offensive for you if I call you a cave -dweller ??



no no it wont be offending

it will only expose ur lack of Knowledge and i will enjoy ur lowness


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## mughaljee

God Bless Her,


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## Urbanized Greyhound

Bill Longley said:


> *Indian bunya never give any thing we know his meaness thats why we see people of india fighting for rights
> I mean look at kashmir , assam and Maoist areas. what a disgrace to mean Banya*



You dont seem to make much sense.Try again wont you?


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## INDIAN007

mughaljee said:


> God Bless Her,



So why not Invite her to pakistan and give her citizenship ......we would be very *LUCKY* If That Happens .....


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## Bill Longley

Urbanized Greyhound said:


> You dont seem to make much sense.Try again wont you?



thank you for telling me that my words gave you displeasure

I will take it as complement


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## Roby

*Dont pity us, Arundhati  not yet*

Insofar as putting thoughts into words go, I guess Im not really qualified to take up an issue with Arundhati Roy; shes a globally acknowledged, indeed, acclaimed writer, while I am no more than an inconsequential rarely-read salaried cog in the gigantic wheels of the print media. Having said that, I am very clear that I dont want my share of the accumulated pity that she thinks the nation collectively merits. So, heres my inadequate submission: 

Arundhati has said that she spoke about justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal military occupations in the world; for Kashmiri Pandits who live out the tragedy of having been driven out of their homeland; for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore; for the Indian poor who pay the price of this occupation in material ways and who are now learning to live in the terror of what is becoming a police state.

I disagree with the effortless branding of Kashmir as one of the most brutal military occupations in the world  it is not pleasant, today, I am sure, but from 1948 to say, at least 1988, a period of well over four decades, Kashmir was a part of what we consider India  merged, integrated, acceded, depends on whom you ask  and for those four decades it was not part of India on the strength of a brutal military occupation. Unlike German soldiers marching into Poland or Chinese troops invading Tibet, India did not have to invade Kashmir and then hold it from Day One by administering martial law or its equivalent. I dont mean to sound cheesy, but for years and years Bollywood didnt churn out those scenes of a beautiful, peaceful, idyllic Kashmir on the strength of shooting crews backed by hundreds of brutal soldiers trying to create a pretence of normal, peaceful life. Thats just how it was. Someone worked to change it. The question is  who?

Punjab, too, faced a decade of insurgency, something which we forget all too easily today. But it wasnt occupied prior to that, it isnt occupied today. Kashmir has faced more than a decade of insurgency, agreed, but to portray it as if everyone in Kashmir for all time has been subject to one of the most brutal military occupations does no justice to the intellect which Arundhati obviously possesses  more so in the context of the fact that the other friendly democratic states that border Kashmir, namely Pakistan and China, have no noticeable tradition of tender loving care extended by their respective militaries to people who question whether they belong to those states. 

Having lived and worked in J&K for many years, as an editor, I have carried stories about remote hilly villages where terrorists surrounded hamlets of Gujjars and slit the throats of two dozen villagers to indicate the price of cooperation extended to security forces patrolling the hills. When Bill Clinton came to India, we saw the carnage of 36 Sikhs in Chatttisinghpora  something which Arundhatis comrade in arms, Syed Ali Shah Geeelani, incredibly enough, still reiterates was done by India to defame Kashmiris. There is no dearth of such instances  I quote only a couple to remind us all that Kashmirs brutal occupation is not quite as much of an innocent-lambs-being-led-to-slaughter scenario as Ms Roy perhaps sees it as.

When Arundhati says that she speaks for justice for Kashmiri Pandits who live out the tragedy of having been driven out of their homeland, it is too ridiculous to even merit comment, given that she wants that justice to come while she shares a dias with Geelani. They were driven out of their homeland, Arundhati, by the brutal military occupiers of Kashmir, or by someone else? Driven out by whom? Why leave it to delightful ambiguities here? I do not know if Kashmiri Pandits give any weightage to her speaking ostensibly on their behalf. And the statistical chances of Pandits returning to Kashmir if the brutal military occupation ends tomorrow are slimmer than of Arundhati joining the BJP. 

Arundhati seeks justice, too, for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore. This is slick if you are writing a column for a foreign audience, the way Aussie experts wrote on the caste composition of the Indian cricket team during the Bhajji-Symonds spat, but, hello, Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir die in situations different from upper caste soldiers or Sikh soldiers or Muslim soldiers  or local, Kashmiri Muslim policemen? Dont insult our intelligence, and the Armys basic DNA, with this line of argument. You wish to be the defender of the rights of those oppressed in Kashmir, of the Pandits, and of the Dalit soldiers from among the troops who die there day in and day out? Sorry, this is just not real, its just not genuine, even if it is possibly good homework for global awards coming your way as defender of the rights of all oppressed sections in this part of the world. 

Arundhatis also looking for justice for the Indian poor who pay the price of this occupation in material ways and who are now learning to live in the terror of what is becoming a police state, but I have little comment to offer on this because, frankly, it is a little too esoteric for me to understand the point. I understand that India is in selective ways and selective zones a police state of sorts, but how insensitive policing in interior Bihar is attributable to Kashmirs status  and how Azadi will address that  must have a subtle connect which my everyday, non literary mind has singularly failed to grasp. But then, we are all not blessed with equal talents.

Anyway, this is not one of Ms Roys essays, so I darent type away endlessly. Ill conclude.

You say, Arundhati, pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice, while communal killers, mass murderers, corporate scamsters, looters, rapists, and those who prey on the poorest of the poor, roam free. I say, you are jumping the gun. Neither have you been silenced at any point for speaking your mind  distasteful as it may be to many when it veers towards applauding anyone willing to kill an Indian soldier, be it a Naxal in Chattisgarh or a terrorist in Kashmir  nor does the nation need to be pitied. Yet. Writers and dissidents are silenced, in friendlier and I suppose less brutal societies such as Pakistan, China, Myanmar, but the very fact that you can issue statements and notes challenging the same to be done here is, perhaps, the strongest negation of those statements. Yes, many murderers, scamsters and rapists still roam free, and no, we aren't proud of that in the least, but no, you havent been jailed for asking for justice. And I dont see that happening. Truth be told, I think you dont see it happening either.

So while one gives all credit to your intellectual prowess, I dont think this overdose of pity for the nation is quite deserved. It's a lot of hyperbole. As part of the nation, even if just one-billionth, I respectfully wish to return my proportion of pity offered by you, Ms Roy. Please accept it. And while youre at it, pass it on to Mr Geelani; I daresay he needs it more.

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## LaBong

Bill Longley said:


> Indian bunya never give any thing we know his meaness thats why we see people of india fighting for rights
> I mean look at kashmir , assam and Maoist areas. what a disgrace to mean Banya



^Hey boy see below how your dear friend described you!! 



Bill Longley said:


> no no it wont be offending
> 
> it will only expose ur lack of Knowledge and i will enjoy ur lowness


----------



## riju78

Roby said:


> *Dont pity us, Arundhati  not yet*
> 
> Insofar as putting thoughts into words go, I guess Im not really qualified to take up an issue with Arundhati Roy; shes a globally acknowledged, indeed, acclaimed writer, while I am no more than an inconsequential rarely-read salaried cog in the gigantic wheels of the print media. Having said that, I am very clear that I dont want my share of the accumulated pity that she thinks the nation collectively merits. So, heres my inadequate submission:
> 
> Arundhati has said that she spoke about justice for the people of Kashmir who live under one of the most brutal military occupations in the world; for Kashmiri Pandits who live out the tragedy of having been driven out of their homeland; for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore; for the Indian poor who pay the price of this occupation in material ways and who are now learning to live in the terror of what is becoming a police state.
> 
> I disagree with the effortless branding of Kashmir as one of the most brutal military occupations in the world  it is not pleasant, today, I am sure, but from 1948 to say, at least 1988, a period of well over four decades, Kashmir was a part of what we consider India  merged, integrated, acceded, depends on whom you ask  and for those four decades it was not part of India on the strength of a brutal military occupation. Unlike German soldiers marching into Poland or Chinese troops invading Tibet, India did not have to invade Kashmir and then hold it from Day One by administering martial law or its equivalent. I dont mean to sound cheesy, but for years and years Bollywood didnt churn out those scenes of a beautiful, peaceful, idyllic Kashmir on the strength of shooting crews backed by hundreds of brutal soldiers trying to create a pretence of normal, peaceful life. Thats just how it was. Someone worked to change it. The question is  who?
> 
> Punjab, too, faced a decade of insurgency, something which we forget all too easily today. But it wasnt occupied prior to that, it isnt occupied today. Kashmir has faced more than a decade of insurgency, agreed, but to portray it as if everyone in Kashmir for all time has been subject to one of the most brutal military occupations does no justice to the intellect which Arundhati obviously possesses  more so in the context of the fact that the other friendly democratic states that border Kashmir, namely Pakistan and China, have no noticeable tradition of tender loving care extended by their respective militaries to people who question whether they belong to those states.
> 
> Having lived and worked in J&K for many years, as an editor, I have carried stories about remote hilly villages where terrorists surrounded hamlets of Gujjars and slit the throats of two dozen villagers to indicate the price of cooperation extended to security forces patrolling the hills. When Bill Clinton came to India, we saw the carnage of 36 Sikhs in Chatttisinghpora  something which Arundhatis comrade in arms, Syed Ali Shah Geeelani, incredibly enough, still reiterates was done by India to defame Kashmiris. There is no dearth of such instances  I quote only a couple to remind us all that Kashmirs brutal occupation is not quite as much of an innocent-lambs-being-led-to-slaughter scenario as Ms Roy perhaps sees it as.
> 
> When Arundhati says that she speaks for justice for Kashmiri Pandits who live out the tragedy of having been driven out of their homeland, it is too ridiculous to even merit comment, given that she wants that justice to come while she shares a dias with Geelani. They were driven out of their homeland, Arundhati, by the brutal military occupiers of Kashmir, or by someone else? Driven out by whom? Why leave it to delightful ambiguities here? I do not know if Kashmiri Pandits give any weightage to her speaking ostensibly on their behalf. And the statistical chances of Pandits returning to Kashmir if the brutal military occupation ends tomorrow are slimmer than of Arundhati joining the BJP.
> 
> Arundhati seeks justice, too, for Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir whose graves I visited on garbage heaps in their villages in Cuddalore. This is slick if you are writing a column for a foreign audience, the way Aussie experts wrote on the caste composition of the Indian cricket team during the Bhajji-Symonds spat, but, hello, Dalit soldiers killed in Kashmir die in situations different from upper caste soldiers or Sikh soldiers or Muslim soldiers  or local, Kashmiri Muslim policemen? Dont insult our intelligence, and the Armys basic DNA, with this line of argument. You wish to be the defender of the rights of those oppressed in Kashmir, of the Pandits, and of the Dalit soldiers from among the troops who die there day in and day out? Sorry, this is just not real, its just not genuine, even if it is possibly good homework for global awards coming your way as defender of the rights of all oppressed sections in this part of the world.
> 
> Arundhatis also looking for justice for the Indian poor who pay the price of this occupation in material ways and who are now learning to live in the terror of what is becoming a police state, but I have little comment to offer on this because, frankly, it is a little too esoteric for me to understand the point. I understand that India is in selective ways and selective zones a police state of sorts, but how insensitive policing in interior Bihar is attributable to Kashmirs status  and how Azadi will address that  must have a subtle connect which my everyday, non literary mind has singularly failed to grasp. But then, we are all not blessed with equal talents.
> 
> Anyway, this is not one of Ms Roys essays, so I darent type away endlessly. Ill conclude.
> 
> You say, Arundhati, pity the nation that has to silence its writers for speaking their minds. Pity the nation that needs to jail those who ask for justice, while communal killers, mass murderers, corporate scamsters, looters, rapists, and those who prey on the poorest of the poor, roam free. I say, you are jumping the gun. Neither have you been silenced at any point for speaking your mind  distasteful as it may be to many when it veers towards applauding anyone willing to kill an Indian soldier, be it a Naxal in Chattisgarh or a terrorist in Kashmir  nor does the nation need to be pitied. Yet. Writers and dissidents are silenced, in friendlier and I suppose less brutal societies such as Pakistan, China, Myanmar, but the very fact that you can issue statements and notes challenging the same to be done here is, perhaps, the strongest negation of those statements. Yes, many murderers, scamsters and rapists still roam free, and no, we aren't proud of that in the least, but no, you havent been jailed for asking for justice. And I dont see that happening. Truth be told, I think you dont see it happening either.
> 
> So while one gives all credit to your intellectual prowess, I dont think this overdose of pity for the nation is quite deserved. It's a lot of hyperbole. As part of the nation, even if just one-billionth, I respectfully wish to return my proportion of pity offered by you, Ms Roy. Please accept it. And while youre at it, pass it on to Mr Geelani; I daresay he needs it more.



Excellent article..... I have asked dear jana quite a few times that why was there peace in Kashmir till 89.... she never replied as usual .... after reading all ur rants here let me ask u again... thanks


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## riju78

Bill Longley said:


> no no it wont be offending
> 
> it will only expose ur lack of Knowledge and i will enjoy ur lowness



So u admit ur lack of knowledge and that we can enjoy ur lowness....thank u


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## faisaljaffery

Its right more than 50% of the indian population is bhooki and nangi.. they dont have food to feed their childeren and india is dreaming of regional super power. its seems like a joke


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## Bill Longley

Abir said:


> ^Hey boy see below how your dear friend described you!!



boy so you deny this?


> communities from the Vaishya social order of the Indian caste system are generally known as banias[2] while in other cases, it is used as an occupational term referring to various businesspeople and other traders irrespective of their caste.Bania's comprise of the most wealthy people[3]
> Bania is derived from the Sanskrit word Banijya which means trade and commerce.[4] [5]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bania_(caste)
> 
> The Tribes and Castes of the Central ... - Google Books


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## LaBong

Bill Longley said:


> boy so you deny this?



Like all of you aren't cave-dwellers, all of us not belong to that group. And a majority of us don't believe in Caste system. 

Also you didn't mean bania in it's actual sense but used it in a derogatory way, in that way cave-dwellers ain't an offensive word as well! You dwell in caves, what's the big deal!

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## Bill Longley

riju78 said:


> So u admit ur lack of knowledge and that we can enjoy ur lowness....thank u



read my answer then come up with argument 

I enjoy kicking lowlife thugs like you people


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## Bill Longley

Abir said:


> Like all of you aren't cave-dwellers, all of us not belong to that group. And a majority of us don't believe in Caste system.
> 
> Also you didn't mean bania in it's actual sense but used it in a derogatory way, in that way cave-dwellers ain't an offensive word as well! You dwell in caves, what's the big deal!



hmmm
who are cave dwellers?
plz simplify so that i can answer

and boy meaness in blood of dwellers of caste infested indians

treatment of dalits prove what i say


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## LaBong

Bill Longley said:


> hmmm
> who are cave dwellers?
> plz simplify so that i can answer
> 
> and boy meaness in blood of dwellers of caste infested indians
> 
> treatment of dalits prove what i say



Like I said, those who dwell in caves, find out who!

Treatment of Dalits and Caste system have been discussed to death in this forum, don't want to derail the topic. All I can say, they have been treated better than you treat your fellow people subscribed to similar faith in your country.


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## Bill Longley

Abir said:


> Like I said, those who dwell in caves, find out who!
> 
> Treatment of Dalits and Caste system have been discussed to death in this forum, don't want to derail the topic. All I can say, they have been treated better than you treat your fellow people subscribed to similar faith in your country.



boy who live in caves?

answer me


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## LaBong

Bill Longley said:


> boy who live in caves?
> 
> answer me



Will you stop appending boy to your every post if I take back calling boy to you, pretty please! Gah you're resilient! 

Here is your answer: 
Stereotyped in their own country &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## monitor

what aurandhi said is liberation of kashmir from india ,how pakstan will fill if the azad kashmiries too want to form a kashmir with indian occupied kashmiries ? its true that pakistan have done every thing it could for the right of kashmiries people for the last six decade .but i think the young generation's passion for pakiatan will not be the same as of there earlier generation .


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## riju78

Bill Longley said:


> read my answer then come up with argument
> 
> I enjoy kicking lowlife thugs like you people



Ho Ho... u just answered a lot of questions on what u r...so I give up..bye


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## Bill Longley

Bangalorean said:


> Stop this nonsense of caves you bigot. Go and kill a few more Ahmadiyas and Shias, finish your quota for the day, then come and talk to me about Dalit discrimination, which has almost died out. And even in the places where it does exist, at least they are not bombed and maimed, unlike the land of the pure where bombings and other murderous assaults take place on minorities on a daily basis.




is this ur best shot ?


daily basis you mean like Kashmir, Ahmed abad..... gosh list is long

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## Bhairava

Bill Longley said:


> is this ur best shot ?
> 
> 
> daily basis you *mean like Kashmir, Ahmed abad.*.... gosh list is long



Nope....like in Karachi,Quetta etc....Gosh if I start listing the places..this website will run out of bandwidth.

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## Bill Longley

Gounder said:


> Nope....like in Karachi,Quetta etc....Gosh if I start listing the places..this website will run out of bandwidth.



no it wont. you are not talking about Bharat Versha.

and btw 2+2=5 plz explain so i can weigh you


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## Developereo

Arundhati Roy may face sedition charges

*Roy may face sedition charges*
Matt Wade 
October 27, 2010

Indian police believe there is a case for charging the Booker Prize-winning author Arundhati Roy with sedition over comments she made about the disputed province of Kashmir, Indian newspapers say.

Reports yesterday said police in Delhi have sought legal opinion about a speech by Roy last week when she said Kashmir has ''never been an integral part of India''. It is not clear if authorities will act on the advice. Roy issued a statement yesterday denying she had done anything wrong.

''This morning's papers say that I may be arrested on charges of sedition for what I have said at recent public meetings &#8230; Anybody who cares to read the transcripts of my speeches will see that they were fundamentally a call for justice,'' she said.

''Some have accused me of giving 'hate speeches', of wanting India to break up. On the contrary, what I say comes from love and pride.

*''It comes from not wanting people to be killed, raped, imprisoned or have their fingernails pulled out in order to force them to say they are Indians.''*

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## booo

New Delhi: The Centre reluctant to press charges of sedition against book writer-activist Arundhati Roy for her strong comments on Kashmir, sources said.
The Government does not want to escalate the situation based on comments made by an individual. Also with US Presdient Barack Obama's visit in November, the Government does not want to internationalise the issue.
Constitutional experts and eminent senior lawyers seem to agree with the Government's plan. Senior lawyer Mahesh Jethmalani told CNN-IBN to ignore her.

"Well this is just not a statement, saying you know lets have self-determination, let the people of Kashmir decide their own future etc. This is a concrete saying that Kashmir is not an integral part of India and that is a secessionist statement. That is a statement that undermines the concept of Indian nationhood so far as Kashmir is concerned," Mahesh Jethmalani told CNN-IBN.
CNN-IBN Editor-in-Chief Rajdeep Sardesai asked Mahesh Jethamalani on 'India@9': "was Arundhati Roy the first person to make that statement? Syed Ali Shah Geelani makes that everyday in the Kashmir Valley. Why when he makes those statements has he not charged with sedition?"
"Before you prosecute Arundhati Roy and I am again at one with Harish Salve in saying that we should ignore a fringe element like her she does not speak for anybody, not even either the Indian people. We are used to Arundhati Roy's sometimes very passionate outpourings," Jethmalani replied.
Though the Centre may be hesitating, but a Ranchi resident has gone ahead and filed a case of sedition against Arundhati Roy for her comment.
The complaint was lodged by Ashish Kumar Singh in the Chief Judicial Magistrate's Court on Monday. Singh wants action to be taken against Arundhati Roy under section 124 of the Indian Penal Code that deals with sedition.
Arundhati had shared the dais with hardline Hurriyat leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani and pro-Maoist leader Vara Vara Rao among others at the Delhi seminar.
Arundhati had said "Kashmir has never been an integral part of India. It is a historical fact. Even the Indian government has accepted this".

Govt 'unlikely' to take action against Arundhati - Politics - Politics News - ibnlive


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## garibnawaz

Once a traitor, always a traitor.


















GB

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## Bill Longley

garibnawaz said:


> Once a traitor, always a traitor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GB



yar if she is a traiter than what are you

you have our FM in ur DP

lol
Kya yea Khula Tizaad nahi


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## Abu Zolfiqar

*Indian Extremists Endangering The Life Of Arundhati Roy Over Kashmir Remarks​*BY AHMED QURAISHI | Wednesday, 27 October 2010.



> NEW DELHI, IndiaYou dont antagonize a superpower-wannabe, especially one that is so serious it is spending $30 billion on latest weapons. But if you do, get ready to pay the price.
> 
> Thats the lesson Arundhati Roy, Booker Prize winner, is learning the hard way. She is Indias most famous international face. And she has embarrassed the entire Indian political, religious and military establishment like no one has done before.
> 
> For the first time in the 63-year-old international dispute with Pakistan over Kashmir, which India forcibly annexed, Roy sat next to a Kashmiri freedom leader and declared in the heart of the Indian capital that Kashmir is not an integral part of India.
> 
> If thats not enough, she also said, No one should be killed, raped, imprisoned or have their fingernails pulled out in order to force them to say they are Indians. This was a direct attack on the Indian military, whose half a million soldiers occupy the tiny Kashmir valley near Pakistans border despite daily protests by Kashmiris shouting, Were not Indian.
> 
> This is big. So far no one in India had the courage to speak up against Indian human rights violations in occupied Kashmir, which are otherwise well documented by rights organizations outside India.
> 
> For those who dont understand how big a deal this is, consider this:
> 
> All mainstream Indian newspapers and television networks strictly adhere to the state policy on Kashmir. It is impossible to find a major Indian news outlet breaking away from this unspoken consensus. [In other words, for India, this is bigger than Commonwealth Games Delhi 2010.]
> 
> Now an environment is being created in New Delhi to arrest Roy, or at least terrorize her enough to silence her and any other Indians who might be having similarly dangerous thoughts. Unfortunately for Roy, she is a Christian, coming from a minority group vulnerable to attacks by Hindu fundamentalists. Indian Christians have been burned alive in acts of violence as recently as winter 2008.
> 
> There are early signs of a whisper campaign and intimidation against Ms. Roy inside India. Prominent Indian news outlets confirmed a sedition case was being prepared against her. Normally the accused in Indian sedition cases receives harsh treatment even before a trial and conviction.
> 
> More worrying is that her opponents  a motley crew of extremist politicians, Hindu fanatics, Hindu terror groups, media affiliates of extremist politicians, and sympathizers inside Indian security agencies  might get to her in other ways without making it look like payback for her Kashmir remarks. Already there are reports suggesting she might be dragged to court in other cases. Funny how these reports suddenly appeared just in time to take her down.
> 
> So no one should be surprised if there is a sudden news blackout on her and she slips off the headlines any minute.
> 
> The mainstream India media has begun whipping up religious sentiments against Roy. This is dangerous in a religious boiling pot like India where rumors in 2002 resulted in Hindu mobs burning alive 2,000 Indian Muslim men, women and children in the Indian state of Gujarat, in what was 21st centurys first incident of religious genocide.
> 
> Ironically, mainstream India media is at the forefront of inflaming passions. For example, the Indian Express has dedicated a page on its internet version of the newspaper to lynching Roy.
> 
> If I were the prime minister I would stripped her citizenship and deport her to Pakistan, wrote one reader who signed his name as Indian.
> 
> Another Indian, Sunanda, based in Manchester, UK, ironically chides Roy for her Western links. She writes: looking for some more European awards missy? By selling your nation that too () You remain a pointless non productive self serving woman, your life is wasted. Dont pride yourself with a thinkers cap, clearly you are a confused ugly face, pretending to be an angel.
> 
> Karan titled his comment, Arundhati, a publicity hungry maggot.
> 
> To be fair, there is the occasional supportive comment, like that of Mr. I. Gill, who writes: How many of you have been to Kashmir (I am talking for last 40 years, since I have been there)? If you have been then you will understand what Kashmere's think of India. If you want to bring India pride then listen to your people and give them freedom.
> 
> But the worry is from rabble-rousers aiming to activate extremists. An Indian apparently based in the United States wrote this: In America, we have a way to deal with these crazies. The rest of the media will make them look like clowns incessantly. That will shut them off permanently () Wake up [local] scribes go for the kill.


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## Tshering22

^^ She's as good as dead anyway. The court may try to save her for political reasons but the military won't spare her. There are more than one ways to get rid of a blood traitor.


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## Tshering22

> India&#8212;You don&#8217;t antagonize a superpower-wannabe, especially one that is so serious it is spending $30 billion on latest weapons. But if you do, get ready to pay the price



I like this sentence... perhaps it is time we metted this treatment to her big time and parcelled her out of our borders to LET's harem to be used and abused by her overlords.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

i sense some anger and discomfort in your tone! 

have a cool glass of water and chill out

if you'll call yourselves democratic people, then I'm surprised you are reacting quite scared to such dissent. Is it insecurity?

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## LaBong

Please maintain civility people. Calling Arundhuti traitor is stretching the matter too far!

1. A traitor is one who betrays a principle, here Arundhuti rather sticking to her principle, which can be wrong but she isn't deceptive. 

2. As I said before, state is always answerable to her citizens, if there's anything outlandish in her claims, refute those logically and firmly. 

3. All Arundhuti gave a statement, however wrong that was, in no way it's gonna promote or help secession. She doesn't carry that much weight, all her brouhaha about Maoists didn't help a bit to solve tribal problem, except for making headlines in corporate driven media which she apparently loathes. Please don't give the undeserving importance to her.


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## LaBong

Tshering22 said:


> ^^ She's as good as dead anyway. The court may try to save her for political reasons but the military won't spare her. There are more than one ways to get rid of a blood traitor.




That's a horribly wrong statement. Indian Army is a processional force which don't indulge in internal matters. Certainly IA don't work like bounty killer.

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## kingdurgaking

garibnawaz said:


> Once a traitor, always a traitor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GB



Just like Geelani i guess she also sold herself to ISI for money i guess... so pathetic of her


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## DESERT FIGHTER

kingdurgaking said:


> Just like Geelani i guess she also sold herself to* ISI *for money i guess... so pathetic of her



Everybdy who says the truth has sold himself to ISI?
Millions of Kashmiris and some HUMANS in this occupating and brutalising worlds biggest sham democracy?


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## deckingraj

^^^^^^^^^^^
I am amazed that all those who are giving importance to Arundhati Roy irrespective of what side they belong to are doing no good for their own cause....Let me dwell more into it

- Indian POV : Our interlocutors are in Kashmir and instead of making their job easy we are making it tough for them by provoking hardliners on our side...
- Kashmir POV : Instead of getting media attention on the real cuase of Kashmir the focus has shifted altogether on sedition charges....Kashmiri people have struggled a lot for 3 months to get the much needed attention of GOI and when they finally get something which will give them a ray of hope we have Ms Arundhati Roy taking all the limelight...
- Pakistan POV : Hardliners in india will get more say and the whole start of the interlocutors will loose its charm...Even if GOI want they will not be able to compromise anything. Every move will be highlighted as sell-out...


So in essence apart from getting media highlight for herself, Ms Roy has not done any good to Kashmir....Yes if the objective is to disrupt the talks by interlocutors then the move was in the right direction, however if the objective is to help kashmir cause then poor job....Now people participating in this debate should think what side they are...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

garibnawaz said:


> Once a traitor, always a traitor.



In some protest with lots of other protesting indian TRAITORS?




>



Interviewing ppl fightin for the rights and many indians on PDF even supporting them in other threads?Traitors?



>



A photo with a POPULAR KASHMIR LEADER FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE DEMOCRATICALLY?

Fighting for there right of determination is a CRIME in worls biggest SHAM DEMOCRACY?




> GB



May GOD help u ... for his love of SUFI SAINT KHAWAJA GAREEB NAWAZ.....May he let u see the truth and take of this pathetic blindfold of supporting killing,torturing and raping KASHMIRIS in IOK.

Ameen..


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## flex

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> In some protest with lots of other protesting indian TRAITORS?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interviewing ppl fightin for the rights and many indians on PDF even supporting them in other threads?Traitors?
> 
> 
> 
> A photo with a POPULAR KASHMIR LEADER FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE DEMOCRATICALLY?
> 
> Fighting for there right of determination is a CRIME in worls biggest SHAM DEMOCRACY?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May GOD help u ... for his love of SUFI SAINT KHAWAJA GAREEB NAWAZ.....May he let u see the truth and take of this pathetic blindfold of supporting killing,torturing and raping KASHMIRIS in IOK.
> 
> Ameen..



wat happens with her when maoist blast the railway lines and kill the innocent ppl?
where she goes when kashmiri hindus and sikhs are threatened and killed to leave the kashmir.?

if u r really intersted in her then take her n give her citizenship of pakistan.she may play a greater role in balochistan and in talks with ttp,alqaeda etc.


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## garibnawaz

flex said:


> wat happens with her when maoist blast the railway lines and kill the innocent ppl?
> where she goes when kashmiri hindus and sikhs are threatened and killed to leave the kashmir.?
> 
> if u r really intersted in her then take her n give her citizenship of pakistan.she may play a greater role in balochistan and in talks with ttp,alqaeda etc.



Further to add what happens to her when the so called freedom fighters of Kashmir kill innocent civilians of India in various parts of India?

GB


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## k_n

Abir said:


> Please maintain civility people. Calling Arundhuti traitor is stretching the matter too far!
> 
> 1. A traitor is one who betrays a principle, here Arundhuti rather sticking to her principle, which can be wrong but she isn't deceptive.
> 
> 2. As I said before, state is always answerable to her citizens, if there's anything outlandish in her claims, refute those logically and firmly.
> 
> 3. All Arundhuti gave a statement, however wrong that was, in no way it's gonna promote or help secession. She doesn't carry that much weight, all her brouhaha about Maoists didn't help a bit to solve tribal problem, except for making headlines in corporate driven media which she apparently loathes. Please don't give the undeserving importance to her.




1. She betrayed the principle of a strong Democratic United India .

2. State is always answerable to the citizens . The citizens have a duty towards the state . 

3. Arundhati has written extensively on Kashmir and Maoist Movement . Her writings are thought provoking and reflect the true suffering and aspirations of the people . Besides , she brings their grievances out in open to the aware citizens of the country . 
Till here all well and good 

Here she shares a stage with Sayed Geelani , a known critic of any democratic institution in his future Kashmir Utopia . I personaly dnt have much problem with him shunning democracy when it comes to governing Kashmir because he anyway wants Kashmir to be with Pakistan , where democratic institutions are still taking roots and certainly the record of elected popular governments isnt as good as it is in it's Eastern neighbour . He doesnt finish here . Sayed Geelani wants implementation of Sharia ( an orthodox translation ) laws governing the lives of citizens of Kashmir . He's still not finished . Sayed Geelani has no provision what so ever for safeguarding life and civil rights of Hindu and Sikh minority in his 'future' Utopia . Hes still not FINISHED . 
Now , lets compare the personalities of Arundhati and Sayed Geelani . The ideologies they stand for . The ability to question the authority and self-held ( or indoctrinated ) beliefs in order to seek the solution to historic social and political problems .

Atleast she should share the stage with men and women of her standing and 'intellectual' ability instead of some indoctrinated and closed minds .

As far as the presence of Maoist sympathisers , I dnt have much to say but :

* Maoism till date hasnt provided a 'Solution' to existing 'Problems' *

There is more productive way in which the intellectuals in a society can challenge the authority head-on and I 'am sorry to all the Arundhati supporters but Arundhati's actions are certainly not Productive , simply because instead of building a consensus they end up bashing the authority alone .

I would also like to know what her Indian supporters and Pakistani fans have to say on her report depicting the condition of Tamils after the end of war in the island nation .

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## DESERT FIGHTER

flex said:


> wat happens with her when maoist blast the railway lines and kill the innocent ppl?
> *where she goes when kashmiri hindus and sikhs are threatened and killed to leave the kashmir.?*
> 
> if u r really intersted in her then take her n give her citizenship of pakistan.she may play a greater role in balochistan and in talks with ttp,alqaeda etc.



U didnt answer a single question put my me?


Reguarding ur worries..... how many Hindus or sikhs have died in IOK since 47 as compared to KASHMIRI MUSLIMS? How many Kashmiris have taken refugee in Pakistan?

Ur naxals are killing u shes supports there right not violence..... and condemns any sort of violence....

Sure we are ready to give citizenship to all peaceful,peace loving ppl..... unlike india... tht supports terrorism as state policy.... so dont derail the thread and try to hide ur face.


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## prototype

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> In some protest with lots of other protesting indian TRAITORS?
> 
> Interviewing ppl fightin for the rights and many indians on PDF even supporting them in other threads?Traitors?
> 
> A photo with a POPULAR KASHMIR LEADER FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE DEMOCRATICALLY?
> 
> *Fighting for there right of determination is a CRIME in worls biggest SHAM DEMOCRACY?*
> 
> *May GOD help u ... for his love of SUFI SAINT KHAWAJA GAREEB NAWAZ.....May he let u see the truth and take of this pathetic blindfold of supporting killing,torturing and raping KASHMIRIS in IOK.*
> 
> Ameen..



This is itself the power of democracy due to which enables her to make Anti India rant abusing the power of freedom of speech.

And even the govt had ruled out any move to arrest her

She must b aware what happened to Liu Xiaobao when he questioned the Chinese authority.

If not of it's democratic virtue,this Arundhati and so called freedom fighter's would not have even seen the light of the day

She would have thought about it before calling bhooka and nanga

Bloody hypocrite and also the people who support her

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## LaBong

k_n said:


> 1. She betrayed the principle of a strong Democratic United India .



What is the principle of strong Democratic India? I mean is it customary to follow the principle of strong democratic India for citizens of India? 

2. State is always answerable to the citizens . The citizens have a duty towards the state . 

Yes but citizens may choose not to follow the duty and still remain a citizen. AFAIK, according to the constitution, there is no prohibition to revoke one's citizenship. 


I more or less agree with your 3rd point.


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## flex

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> U didnt answer a single question put my me?
> 
> 
> Reguarding ur worries..... how many Hindus or sikhs have died in IOK since 47 as compared to KASHMIRI MUSLIMS? How many Kashmiris have taken refugee in Pakistan?
> 
> Ur naxals are killing u shes supports there right not violence..... and condemns any sort of violence....
> 
> Sure we are ready to give citizenship to all peaceful,peace loving ppl..... unlike india... tht supports terrorism as state policy.... so dont derail the thread and try to hide ur face.



terrorism in kashmir started in 1989 and u know y.
maoist kill innocent ppl to get the revenge of their rights???if they are soldiers then it's ok anotherwise killing innocent ppl is not their right.
wat happen when these separatist when ur freedom fighters kill muslims.they remain silent at that moment.
every life is important so dont count how much have been killed.



> Sure we are ready to give citizenship to all peaceful,peace loving ppl..... unlike india... tht supports terrorism as state policy....



i think u are very innocent.daily strikes shows how much peace exist.
even mushi said we supported terrorism.u forgor terror in afganistan and terror in indian north east and indian punjab.


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## LaBong

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/78284-algebra-infinite-fundamentalism.html#post1229808

^ A superb article on Arundhuti, crisp and to the point.


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## kingdurgaking

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Everybdy who says the truth has sold himself to ISI?
> Millions of Kashmiris and some HUMANS in this occupating and brutalising worlds biggest sham democracy?



So far the real truth is... all the uprising in JK is because of ISI.. if no ISI ... then no problem in JK.. This stupid lady is not able to understand this small concept


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## Abu Zolfiqar

i didnt know that indian HR activists are now on ISI payrolls; news to me

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## Ras

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> *Indian Extremists Endangering The Life Of Arundhati Roy Over Kashmir Remarks​*BY AHMED QURAISHI | Wednesday, 27 October 2010.



I love this line..it is so true.

" In America, we have a way to deal with these crazies. The rest of the media will make them look like clowns incessantly. That will shut them off permanently () Wake up [local] scribes go for the kill."

The Indian government is scared of people like Roy but Roy made the classic mistake of blasting India to support Kashmir. All she has done is make the mainland Indian position harder.

As for democracy and sedition...America which gave the world modern democracy and protects her citizens with the very first amendment of the US constitution did not hesitate to use brute force to overwhelm the southern states in the civil war. There are absolute limits to freedom even in democracy.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Ras said:


> The Indian government is scared of people like Roy but Roy made the classic mistake of blasting India to support Kashmir. All she has done is make the mainland Indian position harder.



i think her objective obviously isn't to please india; but to stand up for the human rights of Kashmiris

if the activists cared about the opinions and let it influence their thinking or views, they wouldnt really be activists




> As for democracy and sedition...America which gave the world modern democracy and protects her citizens with the very first amendment of the US constitution did not hesitate to use brute force to overwhelm the southern states in the civil war. There are absolute limits to freedom even in democracy.




it's 2010


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## Ras

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i think her objective obviously isn't to please india; but to stand up for the human rights of Kashmiris



Her "help" does not help kashmiris at all..she is going at it the wrong way as it just solidifies hardline positions in India.



> it's 2010



Irrelevant..same principles apply. The first amendment today is the same first amendment which was there 150 years ago.

India cannot be defeated militarily in Kashmir so she will continue to hold it.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Ras said:


> Her "help" does not help kashmiris at all..she is going at it the wrong way as it just solidifies hardline positions in India.



in a way, u are right....

but again, human activists do what she is doing. We have Asma Jahangir, but you wont find Pakistanis professing that she should be killed. Who are we to decide who lives and who doesnt.




> India cannot be defeated militarily in Kashmir so she will continue to hold it.



is Kashmir a full blown war? I think maybe you are considering the Kashmiris as foot soldiers, militants etc. and therefore worthy of abuse and intimidation

that's quite sad


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## RamGorur

Ras said:


> Her "help" does not help kashmiris at all..she is going at it the wrong way as it just solidifies hardline positions in India.


Hardliners will be hardliners, no matter what. There is a reason why they are called hardliners. Ms Roy's comments - if she had actually said what it is being claimed - have put the liberals in a very tight corner. Its the liberals, not the hardliners, who are key to any solution.

Most Pakistanis, busy singing paeans for Ms Roy, don't realise this. They are happy that GoI is made to feel uncomfortable. Nevermind that the focus has completely shifted from so called Kashmir 'cause' to Ms Roy only. The 'rebel' has become bigger than the 'cause'.

And believe me, I am not complaining.

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## LaBong

> but again, human activists do what she is doing. We have Asma Jahangir, but you wont find Pakistanis professing that she should be killed. Who are we to decide who lives and who doesnt.



God forbid, If Arundhuti is ever treated as Jahangir's been treated, then the whole hell will freeze over! 

Also, Jahangir strictly limits herself to HR violations, there are thousands of people India and even the so-called orange media have been vocal about HR violation in Kashmir many times, promoting sedition isn't activist's realm. She is no more an activist.

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## LaBong

RamGorur said:


> Hardliners will be hardliners, no matter what. There is a reason why they are called hardliners. Ms Roy's comments - if she had actually said what it is being claimed - have put the liberals in a very tight corner. Its the liberals, not the hardliners, who are key to any solution.
> 
> Most Pakistanis, busy singing paeans for Ms Roy, don't realise this. They are happy that GoI is made to feel uncomfortable. Nevermind that the focus has completely shifted from so called Kashmir 'cause' to Ms Roy only. The 'rebel' has become bigger than the 'cause'.
> 
> And believe me, I am not complaining.



Yes, only because of people like Roy, I find myself defensive to pseudo-secularist allegation of Saffron loonies. She is only helping GoI to take more though measure, like she did in case of Maoists problem. 

She DID manage to convert lot of Maoists-sympathizer to support GoI!


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## Ras

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> is Kashmir a full blown war? I think maybe you are considering the Kashmiris as foot soldiers, militants etc. and therefore worthy of abuse and intimidation
> 
> that's quite sad



No I never said Kashmir is a full blown war...I have sympathy for the Kashmiris and I know the way to get freedom is to do what happened some months ago when the students revolted. The way is not through militancy,not through an invasion from Pakistan and certainly not through someone like Roy bashing India trying to help Kashmiris. All these just solidifies the position in India towards more excesses.


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