# Shaheen III | News & Discussions.



## The Deterrent

I'm looking forward to the view point of the members about this missile...

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## Last Hope

It has been disclosed, and is under development.
Its is a IRBM, range *5000-5500 KM*, and nuclear warhead capable of carrying *2200*KG

I havent got anyfurther information, but I _guess_ only 15-25 would be made, and it would be tested in early 2012.

*Tipu ICBM*, whose range is is *7500-8500KM* and capable of carrying nuclear warhead downto *4500KG* is also under development so is *Ghauri III IRBM*, range *4000-45000KM* and also nuclear warhead downto *1800KG*

Tipu would be developed until mid 2014 and Ghauri III can be expected next year.

_
(These dates are my personal guess)_

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## mikkix

Gr8 work but who is helping us,I think no one, we are doing it in our own,, China???
Don't think so cause it can be a threat to them so they will not co-operating to us in it.
Well gr8 work again, interesting to see how it will work in 2014,

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## Last Hope

mikkix said:


> Gr8 work but who is helping us,I think no one, we are doing it in our own,, China???
> Don't think so cause it can be a threat to them so they will not co-operating to us in it.
> Well gr8 work again, interesting to see how it will work in 2014,



Hey!
Its Chinese too who are helping us buddy!

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## mikkix

proudpakistanistudent said:


> Hey!
> Its Chinese too who are helping us buddy!



so we are not doing it to our own,
means its a chinese missile and their program.

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## Sinnerman108

proudpakistanistudent said:


> It has been disclosed, and is under development.
> Its is a IRBM, range *5000-5500 KM*, and nuclear warhead capable of carrying *2200*KG
> 
> I havent got anyfurther information, but I _guess_ only 15-25 would be made, and it would be tested in early 2012.
> 
> *Tipu ICBM*, whose range is is *7500-8500KM* and capable of carrying nuclear warhead downto *4500KG* is also under development so is *Ghauri III IRBM*, range *4000-45000KM* and also nuclear warhead downto *1800KG*
> 
> Tipu would be developed until mid 2014 and Ghauri III can be expected next year.
> 
> _
> (These dates are my personal guess)_



I would be a bit cautious about those figures.
The payload field is too high for that range ...
doesn't sum up right.


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## Last Hope

salman108 said:


> I would be a bit cautious about those figures.
> The payload field is too high for that range ...
> doesn't sum up right.



I have got Charts of Nuclear Capable Missiles of Pakistan!
Wanna have a look?

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## The Deterrent

Last Hope said:


> I have got Charts of Nuclear Capable Missiles of Pakistan!
> Wanna have a look?



sure sure...

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## khurasaan1

mikkix said:


> so we are not doing it to our own,
> means its a chinese missile and their program.



so what ..after all they are our brothers and we share the same destiny...

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## Imran Khan

its in our imagination until we will see live test.

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## Last Hope

AhaseebA said:


> sure sure...



Lemme find it, and I will post it here!


khurasaan1 said:


> so what ..after all they are our brothers and we share the same destiny...



Of Course we do,
Sino-Pak relations are most 'talked about' and 'feared'


Peace101 said:


> its in our imagination until we will see live test.



We have done a lot of extrea ordinary things, and will do much greater than these, Inshallah

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## Last Hope



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## The Deterrent

Last Hope said:


>



First,Pakistan does not have that much money to make different versions of each missile with varying payload (or different warheads).....

Second,Shaheen 2 carries one ton (1000kg) warhead,that is for sure...

Third,I think that Ghauri 3 program has been terminated because Shaheen 3 (*if it IS under development*) is better than it in every aspect.....

Last,we do not have any ICBM under development, for these reasons:

1.We don't have the money for it.
2.There is no possible enemy except Israel,which will already be in range once Shaheen 3 (*if it IS under development*) is operational...
3.It will create tremendous International pressure which we cannot afford now...

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## HAK

AhaseebA said:


> First,*Pakistan does not have that much money *to make different versions of each missile with varying payload (or different warheads).....
> 
> Second,Shaheen 2 carries one ton (1000kg) warhead,that is for sure...
> 
> Third,I think that Ghauri 3 programme has been terminated because Shaheen 3 (*if it IS under development*) is better than it in every aspect.....
> 
> Last,we do not have any ICBM under development, for these reasons:
> 
> 1.We don't have the money for it.
> 2.There is no possible enemy except Israel,which will already be in range once Shaheen 3 (*if it IS under development*) is operational...



i'll give you a movie quote from indipendence day

"You dont actually think they spend 20000 dollars on a hammer; 30000 dollars on a toilet seat, do you??

this stopped me from wondering where they get the money from.

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## Last Hope

This list isint updated one.
There is a thread on PDF, that we also are gonna have 'Taimur' ICBM 

Or maybe 'Tipu' and 'Taimur' are the same one?

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## The Deterrent

Last Hope said:


> This list isint updated one.
> There is a thread on PDF, that we also are gonna have 'Taimur' ICBM
> 
> Or maybe 'Tipu' and 'Taimur' are the same one?



Please do inform me if you hear these names as Pakistani ICBMs within the next 15 years...


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## Sinnerman108

Last Hope said:


>





In the name of GOD !

PLEASE !

Go play with your Tinker toys !


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## Last Hope

salman108 said:


> In the name of GOD !
> 
> PLEASE !
> 
> Go play with your Tinker toys !



Why what's wrong with it?
I got it from wikipedia.


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## farhan_9909

I think SHaheen is known as space booster.

Shaheen III is for SLV purpose because of having Re entry vehicle capability and Ghauri III is 4000km missile to counter the israel.

Govt annouced in 2004 that we will test Ghauri III tomorrow bt later the program was kept secret

it means Ghauri III with 4000km range is ready

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## farhan_9909

Pakistan Shaheen-III Space Booster


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## Donatello

It's a bird, to rain terror on to the enemies of Pakistan.

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## Sinnerman108

Last Hope said:


> Why what's wrong with it?
> I got it from wikipedia.



and that is what is wrong with it !
Wikipedia is a community knowledge service, NOT officially true knowledge service.

If you want, even you can edit info there.


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## LeGenD

The range of *Ghauri-3* is claimed at 3000 - 3500 kms, as per reliable sources.

A prototype was probably tested in August 2000.



Last Hope said:


> Why what's wrong with it?
> I got it from wikipedia.


If you want to consult wikipedia, than focus upon articles which are GA class or better. Otherwise, avoid it.


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## Mani2020

> *AhaseebA;1403793*]First,Pakistan does not have that much money to make different versions of each missile with varying payload (or different warheads).....



We didn't had it either when we were striving for becoming a nuclear power but in the end we made it .secondly every missile has a different role as they have different ranges and payload capability 



> Third,I think that Ghauri 3 program has been terminated because Shaheen 3 (*if it IS under development*) is better than it in every aspect.....
Click to expand...


Ghauri is a liquid fuel missile and Shaheen is a solid fuel missile and both have their own characteristics which distinguish them .i don't see any logic for scrapping one because of other ,instead they will go side by side 



> Last,we do not have any ICBM under development, for these reasons:
> 
> 1.We don't have the money for it.
> 2.There is no possible enemy except Israel,which will already be in range once Shaheen 3 (*if it IS under development*) is operational...
> 3.It will create tremendous International pressure which we cannot afford now...



As i told you before we also didn't have money when we became nuclear power and when we tested the range of missiles currently serving us 

International pressure was also there when we were on the verge of a nuclear explosion ,even we suffered from embargoes at that time when we were solely dependent on west .we didn't stop then when we were dependent on west so why would we stop now when we are no more dependent on them atleast not the way like we were in 90's. we are having JV's with China and shifting to China also our local industry is in good shape with the production of Al-Khalid,jf-17 etc


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## The Deterrent

Mani2020 said:


> .secondly every missile has a different role as they have different ranges and payload capability




Apparently,you didn't get me...I was talking about making different versions of *each* missile system...which is expensive...



> Ghauri is a liquid fuel missile and Shaheen is a solid fuel missile and both have their own characteristics which distinguish them .i don't see any logic for scrapping one because of other ,instead they will go side by side



I was talking about *Ghauri 3* and *Shaheen 3*...
Ghauri 1 and 2 are operational...


> As i told you before we also didn't have money when we became nuclear power and when we tested the range of missiles currently serving us
> 
> International pressure was also there when we were on the verge of a nuclear explosion ,even we suffered from embargoes at that time when we were solely dependent on west .we didn't stop then when we were dependent on west so why would we stop now when we are no more dependent on them atleast not the way like we were in 90's. we are having JV's with China and shifting to China also our local industry is in good shape with the production of Al-Khalid,jf-17 etc



Becoming nuclear power was our need ......but an ICBM is not our need.....
If we develop and fire an ICBM against US/NATO....(which is the only *possible* enemy left,since India is already and Israel will be in range)
we will have to face nuclear retaliation from a couple of countries...after which there is no chance of survival...


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## Mani2020

> AhaseebA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently,you didn't get me...I was talking about making different versions of *each* missile system...which is expensive...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i already have stated that each version varies in range and maximum load of warhead it can carry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was talking about *Ghauri 3* and *Shaheen 3*...
> Ghauri 1 and 2 are operational...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sane goes for Ghauri 3 and Shaheen 3 that one is liquid fuel and the other one is solid fuel also both have different ranges and payloads similarly like the previous versions of both .adds to diversity which is always a good thing to have
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we develop and fire an ICBM against US/NATO....(which is the only *possible* enemy left,since India is already and Israel will be in range)
> we will have to face nuclear retaliation from a couple of countries...after which there is no chance of survival..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think we have to worry about what NATO and other's think when it comes to our national security matters?Also as far as them is concerned they were even not happy when China provided us with M-11 or when we tested Ghauri and Shaheen but did it matter?
> 
> US/NATO has always been biased when it comes to Pakistan and we have seen their double standard so if they have double crossed us in the past ,so whats the gurantee they will not again? You have to take the advantage of changing paradigm ,NATO is in Afghanistan and they need us more then us need them so why not to exploit conditions to our benefits before we loose this luxury
> 
> Once NATO leaves Afghanistan you will again see their attitude towards Pakistan which will be even more negative then now.So we have to suffer sooner or later anyway so why not by doing everything on our own terms and conditions
Click to expand...


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## khurasaan1

AhaseebA said:


> Apparently,you didn't get me...I was talking about making different versions of *each* missile system...which is expensive...
> 
> 
> 
> I was talking about *Ghauri 3* and *Shaheen 3*...
> Ghauri 1 and 2 are operational...
> 
> 
> Becoming nuclear power was our need ......but an ICBM is not our need.....
> If we develop and fire an ICBM against US/NATO....(which is the only *possible* enemy left,since India is already and Israel will be in range)
> we will have to face nuclear retaliation from a couple of countries...after which there is no chance of survival...



hey man dont be afraid of any body ..except Allah(s.b.w.t)..if he dont save us then nobody can save us...

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## Babur Han

Last Hope said:


>



There were Rumors about a pakistani ICBM called "Taimur"(Timur), this Missile is not listet !

*BTW:* Ghaznavi and Babur are Names from Turkic orign, both Ghaznavids and Mughals were Turkic Muslim Invaders of Indian Subcontinent.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Skywalker....... the name we heard was TIPU(Sultan Tipu).....A Muslim Sultan from the subcontinent who fought the british...... he was feared and respected by his enemies...

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## Babur Han

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> @Skywalker....... the name we hear was TIPU(Sultan Tipu).....An indian Muslim Sultan who fought the british...... he was feared and respected by his enemies...
> Ghazvani is derived from the city of ghazna.... babur was a hybrid of mongol fathers and turkic mothers.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
> 
> @Skywalker....... the name we hear was TIPU(Sultan Tipu).....An indian Muslim Sultan who fought the british...... he was feared and respected by his enemies...
> Ghazvani is derived from the city of ghazna.... babur was a hybrid of mongol fathers and turkic mothers.




Babur had mongolian ancestry from his Mothers Side, but he was Turkic and spoke Chagathay. Chagathai were an old Turkic Language which was widespreaded in the Area of Transsoxania, in Todays Time Chagathay is replaced by modern Uzbek Language.

The Ghaznavid Dynasty was rule by persifizied Turkic People.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Chaughtai is still spoken in some parts of Pakistan.

Anyways thanks for the info........ 

P.S=I dont know much abt tht.... coz im a baluch from balouchistan province which was never of mughal empire.

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## Xestan

Skywalker1983 said:


> Babur had mongolian ancestry from his Mothers Side, but he was Turkic and spoke Chagathay. Chagathai were an old Turkic Language which was widespreaded in the Area of Transsoxania, in Todays Time Chagathay is replaced by modern Uzbek Language.
> 
> The Ghaznavid Dynasty was rule by persifizied Turkic People.



No matter if they were of Turkish origin, we have Missiles with these names because They were Great Muslim Heroes  Simple!

Muslims are one nation and we Pakistanis have this disease in us 

Btw, It's no just the Mughal emperors or the Muslim leaders from 19th and 18th Century, we have Tank named after Hazrat Khalid Bin Waleed [R.A], and there's a list of weapons 

APC TALHA, PNS Zulfiqar, PNS Badar etcetc

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## mjnaushad

UmEr Rajpoot said:


> No matter if they were of Turkish origin, we have Missiles with these names because They were Great Muslim Heroes  Simple!
> 
> Muslims are one nation and we Pakistanis have this disease in us
> 
> Btw, It's no just the Mughal emperors or the Muslim leaders from 19th and 18th Century, we have Tank named after Hazrat Khalid Bin Waleed [R.A], and there's a list of weapons
> 
> APC TALHA, PNS Zulfiqar, PNS Badar etcetc


Maoz, Ma'az, ... APCs

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## unicorn148

Guyss stop fighting for these names its the country to decide what name it want to keep not us .

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## mjnaushad

unicorn148 said:


> INDIANS stop fighting for these names its the country to decide what name it want to keep not us .



Corrected....


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## DESERT FIGHTER

mjnaushad said:


> Maoz, Ma'az, ... APCs



Zarar,hadeed,ababeel MRAP, Hamza IFV etc etc

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## The Deterrent

Let us discuss something else than names....

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## LeGenD

Source: MissileThreat ::


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## ynmian

What is the speed of these missiles e.g., shaheen 1 or 2, ghauri etc
since these are rockets i believe it should be at least 25000 to 30000 km / hr.

anyone got any idea? (altitude also if anyone can tell?)


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## alimobin memon

WHATS SPEED OF OUR NUKES I MEAN BALLISTIC MISSILE??


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## Kompromat



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## Hyperion

alimobin memon said:


> WHATS SPEED OF OUR NUKES I MEAN BALLISTIC MISSILE??


LOL... Zoooom....Zoooooom.. Fast!

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## Major Sam

Aeronaut said:


>



Any news about its trial test? or still its developed but no testing yet

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## A.Rafay

alimobin memon said:


> WHATS SPEED OF OUR NUKES I MEAN BALLISTIC MISSILE??


Shuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>------>

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## wakapdf

^^^ very accurate. You shouldnt be revealing such sensitive information

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## Last Hope

A.Rafay said:


> *Please do not laugh at me*
> I met i guy whose relative works in missile programs of Pakistan, he told me that Shaheen III is already tested in early 2004 and now its operational with more than 4000 Km range  I will meet this guy again for some more details



Some missile programs are already developed, including Shaheen 3 and Ghauri 3, however they are not openly test-fired because of pressure.

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## krash

A.Rafay said:


> *Please do not laugh at me*
> I met i guy whose relative works in missile programs of Pakistan, he told me that Shaheen III is already tested in early 2004 and now its operational with more than 4000 Km range  I will meet this guy again for some more details



I do not know if it was or was not but if it was tested and still kept undisclosed then there must have been a reason behind it which could be critical to the security of Pakistan and in result *you*. Please refrain from acting like broken faucets. I get that you're excited but please think before you post on public forums such as this one.

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## The Deterrent

A.Rafay said:


> *Please do not laugh at me*
> I met i guy whose relative works in missile programs of Pakistan, he told me that Shaheen III is already tested in early 2004 and now its operational with more than 4000 Km range  I will meet this guy again for some more details



Kindly do not spread misinformation. Shaheen-III is under-development, and no weapon system with capabilities greater than those of Shaheen-II has ever been tested from Pakistani soil.
Moreover, there is only one version of Ghauri missile operational with the Army Strategic Forces Command, with a maximum range of 1300 km.



Last Hope said:


> Some missile programs are already developed, including Shaheen 3 and Ghauri 3, however they are not openly test-fired because of pressure.



That is not true. Ghauri-III was scrapped up during development. Even the Ghauri-II didn't advance beyond the testing phase.
Shaheen-III will be tested as soon as it is ready.

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## Kompromat

AhaseebA said:


> Kindly do not spread misinformation. Shaheen-III is under-development, and no weapon system with capabilities greater than those of Shaheen-II has ever been tested from Pakistani soil.
> Moreover, there is only one version of Ghauri missile operational with the Army Strategic Forces Command, with a maximum range of 1300 km.
> 
> 
> 
> That is not true. Ghauri-III was scrapped up during development. Even the Ghauri-II didn't advance beyond the testing phase.
> Shaheen-III will be tested as soon as it is ready.



What would be the max range of Shaheen III - Guidance system, MIRV?


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## The Deterrent

Aeronaut said:


> What would be the max range of Shaheen III - Guidance system, MIRV?



Shaheen-III is actually the same upgraded Shaheen-II we heard about a while ago. I don't know about its range and guidance system for sure.
Nope, no MIRVs. Shaheen-III is going to be somewhat the Pakistani Agni-IV (which is a major upgrade to Agni-II).

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## Mav3rick

Aeronaut said:


> What would be the max range of Shaheen III - Guidance system, MIRV?



I guess actual maximum ranges are always classified. However, we can expect it to be anywhere from 3,500km to 5,500km (within the IRBM domain). As for MIRV, it is most widely speculated that Shaheen 1A is MIRV capable. It was even announced that Shaheen 1A can carry multiple warheads simultaneously which most likely points to the missile being MIRV capable.

Facts:

1. Funding for Ghauri III was stopped in the mid of 2000 (source: Abdul Qadeer Khan) when 50% development was complete by Musharraf.
2. Shaheen series, being solid fueled, has always been more advanced then the Ghauri Series and therefore we began to focus more on Shaheen series rather than Ghauri series. No wonder we have more Shaheen series missiles with the Armed forces.
3. Shaheen 1A still wasn't tested to maximum range. It's range is stated to be a maximum of 2,500 km's with the ability to carry multiple warheads simultaneously (MIRV). However, much like speculations are ripe about the actual maximum range of Indian ICBM, the actual maximum range of Shaheen-1A is classified (read 3,500kms)
4. Shaheen 1A also has the ability to evade ABM systems even at terminal guidance with little boosters on the sides that can be used to correct the path during terminal phase or to evade ABM systems. With such a Missile, ABM systems can never predict the path of the Missile for engagement especially when the evasion is at many mach.

How hard it is to develop an ICBM after Shaheen II, that already has 2 stage solid fuel engine, is anybody's guess. Also, we can all calculate the consequences, direct or indirect, of Pakistan testing a capable ICBM with the range of hitting any target around the globe.

Next stage, SLBM/SLCM. That would be awesome, especially now that we have declared our plans to develop a Nuclear powered submarine and the setting up of the Naval Strategic Arm which would eventually be responsible for the 3rd strike capability (after mobile/hardened land based missiles). A complete Nuclear trident.

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## Don Jaguar

Mav3rick said:


> I guess actual maximum ranges are always classified. However, we can expect it to be anywhere from 3,500km to 5,500km (within the IRBM domain). As for MIRV, it is most widely speculated that Shaheen 1A is MIRV capable. It was even announced that Shaheen 1A can carry multiple warheads simultaneously which most likely points to the missile being MIRV capable.
> 
> Facts:
> 
> 1. Funding for Ghauri III was stopped in the mid of 2000 (source: Abdul Qadeer Khan) when 50% development was complete by Musharraf.
> 2. Shaheen series, being solid fueled, has always been more advanced then the Ghauri Series and therefore we began to focus more on Shaheen series rather than Ghauri series. No wonder we have more Shaheen series missiles with the Armed forces.
> 3. Shaheen 1A still wasn't tested to maximum range. It's range is stated to be a maximum of 2,500 km's with the ability to carry multiple warheads simultaneously (MIRV). However, much like speculations are ripe about the actual maximum range of Indian ICBM, the actual maximum range of Shaheen-1A is classified (read 3,500kms)
> 4. Shaheen 1A also has the ability to evade ABM systems even at terminal guidance with little boosters on the sides that can be used to correct the path during terminal phase or to evade ABM systems. With such a Missile, ABM systems can never predict the path of the Missile for engagement especially when the evasion is at many mach.
> 
> How hard it is to develop an ICBM after Shaheen 1A, that already has 2 stage solid fuel engine, is anybody's guess. Also, we can all calculate the consequences, direct or indirect, of Pakistan testing a capable ICBM with the range of hitting any target around the globe.
> 
> Next stage, SLBM/SLCM. That would be awesome, especially now that we have declared our plans to develop a Nuclear powered submarine and the setting up of the Naval Strategic Arm which would eventually be responsible for the 3rd strike capability (after mobile/hardened land based missiles). A complete Nuclear trident.



Khush ker dia bhai.

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## v9s

Mav3rick said:


> 3. Shaheen 1A still wasn't tested to maximum range. It's range is stated to be a maximum of 2,500 km's with the ability to carry multiple warheads simultaneously (MIRV). However, much like speculations are ripe about the actual maximum range of Indian ICBM, the actual maximum range of Shaheen-1A is classified (read 3,500kms)



FALSE.

It does NOT have a range of 2,500 km. That was just Pakistani media misreporting as usual.
It doesn't have MIRV capability either. 

Just look at the missile. It cannot accommodate more than one warhead. And it's only slightly heavier than Shaheen 1.

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## JonAsad

Mav3rick said:


> 4. Shaheen 1A *also has the ability to evade ABM systems even at terminal guidance with little boosters on the sides that can be used to correct the path during terminal phase or to evade ABM systems*. With such a Missile, ABM systems can never predict the path of the Missile for engagement especially when the evasion is at many mach.



Hmm interesting- is it confirmed?-


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## JonAsad

yaar aik sawal kya pocha sb bhag gaye hud hai-

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## The Deterrent

Mav3rick said:


> I guess actual maximum ranges are always classified. However, we can expect it to be anywhere from 3,500km to 5,500km (within the IRBM domain). As for MIRV, it is most widely speculated that Shaheen 1A is MIRV capable. It was even announced that Shaheen 1A can carry multiple warheads simultaneously which most likely points to the missile being MIRV capable.



You are highly exaggerating the capabilities of Shaheen-IA based on amateur reporting. It is an MRBM of 1000-1200 km range (also mentioned by Dr. Mand) and delivers a *unitary* ~1000 kg payload.




> 3. Shaheen 1A still wasn't tested to maximum range. It's range is stated to be a maximum of 2,500 km's with the ability to carry multiple warheads simultaneously (MIRV). However, much like speculations are ripe about the actual maximum range of Indian ICBM, the actual maximum range of Shaheen-1A is classified (read 3,500kms)


Negative. ISPR never released the official range, and the reports of it being MIRVed are FLAWED.



> How hard it is to develop an ICBM after Shaheen 1A, that already has *2 stage solid fuel engine,* is anybody's guess. Also, we can all calculate the consequences, direct or indirect, of Pakistan testing a capable ICBM with the range of hitting any target around the globe.



Again, Shaheen-IA is a *SINGLE* stage solid-fueled missile. And the ICBM stuff is pure nonsense, get you facts right.



JonAsad said:


> You guys confusing me now-
> 
> Which ballistic missile of Pakistan is MIRV capable?-
> and Which can evade ABM systems?-
> 
> Please-



*NONE *of the missiles Pakistan currently possesses is MIRV capable. Shaheen-IA and Shaheen-II are _reported_ to be capable of evading ABMs, although it is not confirmed.

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## krash

v9s said:


> FALSE.
> 
> It does NOT have a range of 2,500 km. That was just Pakistani media misreporting as usual.
> It doesn't have MIRV capability either.
> 
> Just look at the missile. It cannot accommodate more than one warhead. And it's only slightly heavier than Shaheen 1.



MIRV does not mean that you place multiple warheads of the same size as the single one, from before, in the missile. The multiple warheads are all smaller than the single and combine to roughly reach the size of the single. You won't be able to know if a particular missile has been MIRVed just by looking at it. The reason behind MIRVing one's missiles is not to increase the potency by increasing the total yield of the weapon nor does it mean that you would be targeting multiple targets, say city A and city B, with one single missile. The multiple warheads are smaller than the single with roughly the same total yield as the single. The concept behind MIRV is that a single warhead dropped in the center of a general target area, say a city, is less potent than multiple warheads (with the same total yield as the single) dropped around and about that same general target area. This is because the radiation received from a nuclear explosion is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the explosion and the blast pressure is inversely proportional to the cube of the distance from the explosion. Simply put the blast pressure and radiation effects of the blast decrease dramatically as you move away from the point of detonation. Hence multiple smaller warheads dropped around the target area give a much more potent effect than a single larger warhead dropped dead in the center.

The US's Peacekeeper MIRV:







The re-entry vehicles' path from one of the Peacekeeper tests:






The Minuteman III MIRV:





Some pretty awesome pictures here:
http://blog.markloiseau.com/2012/05/mirv-reentry-pictures/

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## The Deterrent

^ Deployment of MIRVs simply requires more space on the RV bus, even if smaller warheads are used. Shaheen-IA is simply not big enough to accommodate them. Besides, being a 1200 km max range missile, it won't gain enough altitude to deploy RVs for INDEPENDENT targeting.

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## Dr. Strangelove

JonAsad said:


> yaar aik sawal kya pocha sb bhag gaye hud hai-




i dont know its true or false but 
some guys here are talking about 
shaheen 1a


fanboys


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## Safriz

From defencenews 2011


ISLAMABAD - In response to India's pursuit of missile defenses,
Pakistan has expanded its countermeasure efforts, primarily through
development of maneuvering re-entry vehicles. The Army Strategic
Forces Command, which controls Pakistan's ballistic missiles, has since
at least 2004 said it wanted to develop such warheads; analysts now
believe these are in service. Mansoor Ahmed, lecturer at the Department of Defence and Strategic
Studies at Islamabad's Quaid-e-Azam University, said that in addition
to maneuverable warheads, multiple independently targetable re-
entry vehicles (MIRVs) may be developed to stay ahead of India's
"multilayered ballistic-missile defense system" and potential future
countermeasures. "This, coupled with submarine-launched,
nuclear-tipped cruise missiles, would ensure
the survivability of its nuclear deterrent and
enhance the effectiveness of its missile force
that can beat any Indian defenses," he said. When asked about the threat posed by India's anti-ballistic missile
(ABM) program, Harsh Pant, reader of international relations at the
Defence Studies Department, King's College London, said it depended
on the capability India eventually acquired. "Many in India see an Indian missile defense capability as the only
effective way to counter what they consider as Pakistan's 'nuclear
blackmail,'" he said. He cited the ongoing conflict in Kashmir, the 1999 Kargil conflict and
the November 2008 Mumbai terror attacks as examples.Strategic
Disadvantage These incidents "demonstrated for many the inability of
India to come up with an appropriate response to the stability-
instability paradox operating on the subcontinent that has put India
at a strategic disadvantage vis-à-vis Pakistan." He further explained, "A missile defense system would help India
blunt Pakistan's 'first use' nuclear force posture that had led Pakistan
to believe that it had inhibited India from launching a conventional
attack against it for fear of its escalation to the nuclear level. With a
missile defense system in place, India would be able to restore the
status quo ante, thereby making a conventional military option against Pakistan potent again."Such a missile defense system and a
second-strike capability "would enhance the uncertainties of India's
potential adversaries, regardless of the degree of effectiveness of
missile interception, and would act as a disincentive to their resort to
nuclear weapons," he said. Asked whether Pakistan's countermeasures would be effective
against such ABM systems, Pant replied, "most definitely." He said, "According to various reports, Pakistan has been developing
MIRV capability for the Shaheen-II ballistic missiles and [the] Shaheen-
III missile is under development." He also explained there was a further danger for India in Pakistan's
countermeasure efforts. "Although the current capability of Pakistani missiles is built around
radar seekers, the integration of re-entry vehicles would make these
extremely potent and defeat the anti-ballistic missile defense systems.
This would be especially true of Indian aircraft carriers that would
become extremely vulnerable," he said. While measures to maintain the credibility of the land-based arm of
the deterrent may prove to be adequate, the security of the future
sea-based arm of the nuclear triad is not as clear-cut. Analysts have for years speculated that the Navy will equip its
submarines with a variant of the Babur cruise missile armed with a
nuclear warhead. However, whether a cruise-missile-based arm of
the nuclear triad at sea would be effective and survivable in the face
of Indian air defenses is uncertain. The Soviet Union developed a counter to the BGM-109 Tomahawk
nearly 30 years ago in the form of the MiG-31 Foxhound, which had a
powerful look down/shoot down radar and a potent missile system.
The Indian Air Force claims its Su-30MKI Flanker has similar
capabilities. When this was put to analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military
Consortium think tank, he said the interception of cruise missiles is
not so simple."I think Babur will form the sea-based arm of the
Pakistani nuclear deterrent" he said, "but the problem in targeting
subsonic cruise missiles is that they are harder to detect due to their
lower radar cross-signature, low-level navigation, and use of waypoints to circumvent more secure and heavily defended areas." "By the time you detect them, there is not much time left to vector
aircraft for interception." However, Shabbir conceded it would be possible for an airborne
interceptor to shoot down a missile like Babur. "An aircraft already
on [patrol] might be lucky to pick it up on its own radar well in
advance [if looking in the correct direction], or vectored to it by
ground-based radar."

From defencenews 2011


ISLAMABAD - In response to India's pursuit of missile defenses,
Pakistan has expanded its countermeasure efforts, primarily through
development of maneuvering re-entry vehicles. The Army Strategic
Forces Command, which controls Pakistan's ballistic missiles, has since
at least 2004 said it wanted to develop such warheads; analysts now
believe these are in service. Mansoor Ahmed, lecturer at the Department of Defence and Strategic
Studies at Islamabad's Quaid-e-Azam University, said that in addition
to maneuverable warheads, multiple independently targetable re-
entry vehicles (MIRVs) may be developed to stay ahead of India's
"multilayered ballistic-missile defense system" and potential future
countermeasures. "This, coupled with submarine-launched,
nuclear-tipped cruise missiles, would ensure
the survivability of its nuclear deterrent and
enhance the effectiveness of its missile force
that can beat any Indian defenses," he said. When asked about the threat posed by India's anti-ballistic missile
(ABM) program, Harsh Pant, reader of international relations at the
Defence Studies Department, King's College London, said it depended
on the capability India eventually acquired. "Many in India see an Indian missile defense capability as the only
effective way to counter what they consider as Pakistan's 'nuclear
blackmail,'" he said. He cited the ongoing conflict in Kashmir, the 1999 Kargil conflict and
the November 2008 Mumbai terror attacks as examples.Strategic
Disadvantage These incidents "demonstrated for many the inability of
India to come up with an appropriate response to the stability-
instability paradox operating on the subcontinent that has put India
at a strategic disadvantage vis-à-vis Pakistan." He further explained, "A missile defense system would help India
blunt Pakistan's 'first use' nuclear force posture that had led Pakistan
to believe that it had inhibited India from launching a conventional
attack against it for fear of its escalation to the nuclear level. With a
missile defense system in place, India would be able to restore the
status quo ante, thereby making a conventional military option against Pakistan potent again."Such a missile defense system and a
second-strike capability "would enhance the uncertainties of India's
potential adversaries, regardless of the degree of effectiveness of
missile interception, and would act as a disincentive to their resort to
nuclear weapons," he said. Asked whether Pakistan's countermeasures would be effective
against such ABM systems, Pant replied, "most definitely." He said, "According to various reports, Pakistan has been developing
MIRV capability for the Shaheen-II ballistic missiles and [the] Shaheen-
III missile is under development." He also explained there was a further danger for India in Pakistan's
countermeasure efforts. "Although the current capability of Pakistani missiles is built around
radar seekers, the integration of re-entry vehicles would make these
extremely potent and defeat the anti-ballistic missile defense systems.
This would be especially true of Indian aircraft carriers that would
become extremely vulnerable," he said. While measures to maintain the credibility of the land-based arm of
the deterrent may prove to be adequate, the security of the future
sea-based arm of the nuclear triad is not as clear-cut. Analysts have for years speculated that the Navy will equip its
submarines with a variant of the Babur cruise missile armed with a
nuclear warhead. However, whether a cruise-missile-based arm of
the nuclear triad at sea would be effective and survivable in the face
of Indian air defenses is uncertain. The Soviet Union developed a counter to the BGM-109 Tomahawk
nearly 30 years ago in the form of the MiG-31 Foxhound, which had a
powerful look down/shoot down radar and a potent missile system.
The Indian Air Force claims its Su-30MKI Flanker has similar
capabilities. When this was put to analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military
Consortium think tank, he said the interception of cruise missiles is
not so simple."I think Babur will form the sea-based arm of the
Pakistani nuclear deterrent" he said, "but the problem in targeting
subsonic cruise missiles is that they are harder to detect due to their
lower radar cross-signature, low-level navigation, and use of waypoints to circumvent more secure and heavily defended areas." "By the time you detect them, there is not much time left to vector
aircraft for interception." However, Shabbir conceded it would be possible for an airborne
interceptor to shoot down a missile like Babur. "An aircraft already
on [patrol] might be lucky to pick it up on its own radar well in
advance [if looking in the correct direction], or vectored to it by
ground-based radar."

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## Safriz

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-technology-within-pakistani-grasp-now-5.html

PDF thread from 2010

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## Mav3rick

v9s said:


> FALSE.
> 
> It does NOT have a range of 2,500 km. That was just Pakistani media misreporting as usual.
> It doesn't have MIRV capability either.
> 
> Just look at the missile. It cannot accommodate more than one warhead. And it's only slightly heavier than Shaheen 1.



MIRV capability was advertised by ISPR in their subsequent release of information on Shaheen 1A. The word MIRV was not used, however the statement said that the missile could carry either a single 1000kg warhead or 3-5 300-200kg warheads.


----------



## v9s

krash said:


> MIRV does not mean that you place multiple warheads of the same size as the single one, from before, in the missile. The multiple warheads are all smaller than the single and combine to roughly reach the size of the single. You won't be able to know if a particular missile has been MIRVed just by looking at it. The reason behind MIRVing one's missiles is not to increase the potency by increasing the total yield of the weapon nor does it mean that you would be targeting multiple targets, say city A and city B, with one single missile. The multiple warheads are smaller than the single with roughly the same total yield as the single. The concept behind MIRV is that a single warhead dropped in the center of a general target area, say a city, is less potent than multiple warheads (with the same total yield as the single) dropped around and about that same general target area. This is because the radiation received from a nuclear explosion is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the explosion and the blast pressure is inversely proportional to the cube of the distance from the explosion. Simply put the blast pressure and radiation effects of the blast decrease dramatically as you move away from the point of detonation. Hence multiple smaller warheads dropped around the target area give a much more potent effect than a single larger warhead dropped dead in the center.



That is elementary knowledge.

Read http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...aheen-iii-news-discussions-4.html#post3682772 to understand what I was trying to say



Mav3rick said:


> MIRV capability was advertised by ISPR in their subsequent release of information on Shaheen 1A. The word MIRV was not used, however the statement said that the missile could carry either a single 1000kg warhead or 3-5 300-200kg warheads.



Please provide a link to that info. I'm quite sure ISPR didn't release anything like that.


----------



## Mav3rick

AhaseebA said:


> You are highly exaggerating the capabilities of Shaheen-IA based on amateur reporting. It is an MRBM of 1000-1200 km range (also mentioned by Dr. Mand) and delivers a *unitary* ~1000 kg payload.



Actual range of Shaheen 1A was never disclosed, not even by Dr. Samar Mubarakmand! All that we have are expert opinions and then some.





AhaseebA said:


> Negative. ISPR never released the official range, and the reports of it being MIRVed are FLAWED.



I could not find technology other then MIRV where multiple warheads were used through a single Missile.





AhaseebA said:


> Again, Shaheen-IA is a *SINGLE* stage solid-fueled missile. And the ICBM stuff is pure nonsense, get you facts right.



That was Shaheen 2 that is a dual stage solid fueled Missile, my posting mistake.





AhaseebA said:


> *NONE *of the missiles Pakistan currently possesses is MIRV capable. Shaheen-IA and Shaheen-II are _reported_ to be capable of evading ABMs, although it is not confirmed.



Nothing is confirmed, neither MIRV nor PSAC features......hell, even the ranges aren't confirmed. So all we have is hearsay, rumors & perhaps somewhat personal information.....you choose yours to believe and I shall choose mine

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## Mav3rick

v9s said:


> Please provide a link to that info. I'm quite sure ISPR didn't release anything like that.



I can't find it, have tried on multiple occasions but the subsequent release of information has just vanished. I actually posted the news myself too, so should be in one of my posts. I am trying to search my own posts but nothing is coming up wrt MIRV or even Shaheen which is not possible.

Try google on subsequent ISPR press release on Shaheen 1A as well as my posts on this forum, I will do the same and post when I find something.


----------



## The Deterrent

Mav3rick said:


> Actual range of Shaheen 1A was never disclosed, not even by Dr. Samar Mubarakmand! All that we have are expert opinions and then some.



He did, in one of his latest interviews.



> I could not find technology other then MIRV where multiple warheads were used through a single Missile.



You also have to consider the physical parameters and feasible capabilities before believing an illogical statement. 



> That was Shaheen 2 that is a dual stage solid fueled Missile, my posting mistake.


No problem. 



> Nothing is confirmed, neither MIRV nor PSAC features......hell, even the ranges aren't confirmed. So all we have is hearsay, rumors & perhaps somewhat personal information.....you choose yours to believe and I shall choose mine



True that. Sure, whatever seems better to you. 



Mav3rick said:


> I can't find it, have tried on multiple occasions but the subsequent release of information has just vanished. I actually posted the news myself too, so should be in one of my posts. I am trying to search my own posts but nothing is coming up wrt MIRV or even Shaheen which is not possible.
> 
> Try google on subsequent ISPR press release on Shaheen 1A as well as my posts on this forum, I will do the same and post when I find something.



Thats because it was something made by some fanboy on wikipedia. I don't recall anything like that (200-300 kg warheads) being present in the official ISPR release.

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## v9s

Mav3rick said:


> I can't find it, have tried on multiple occasions but the subsequent release of information has just vanished. I actually posted the news myself too, so should be in one of my posts. I am trying to search my own posts but nothing is coming up wrt MIRV or even Shaheen which is not possible.
> 
> Try google on subsequent ISPR press release on Shaheen 1A as well as my posts on this forum, I will do the same and post when I find something.



There you go:


> Pakistan today successfully conducted the launch of the intermediate Range Ballistic Missile Hatf IV Shaheen-1A Weapon System. The missile is an improved version of Shaheen-1 with improvements in range and technical parameters. It is capable of carrying nuclear and conventional warheads.
> Today&#8217;s launch, whose impact point was at sea, was witnessed by Director General Strategic Plans Division Lieutenant General Khalid Ahmed Kidwai (R), Chairman NESCOM Mr Muhammad Irfan Burney, Commander Army Strategic Force Command Lieutenant General Tariq Nadeem Gilani and other senior military officers, scientists and engineers.
> DG SPD Lieutenant General Khalid Ahmed Kidwai (R) congratulated all scientists and engineers on the successful launch, and the accuracy of the missile in reaching the target. He said that the improved version of Shaheen 1A will further consolidate and strengthen Pakistan&#8217;s deterrence abilities. He appreciated the efforts of all personnel for their dedication and professionalism.
> 
> :: ISPR :: Inter Services Public Relations - PAKISTAN



Official ISPR release...no MIRV mentioned.

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## Mav3rick

v9s said:


> There you go:
> 
> 
> Official ISPR release...no MIRV mentioned.



The word subsequent means "occurring or coming later or after". Please search for the subsequent release of information, which seems to have vanished. Even windjammer posted something similar later on, maybe he has better search skills then your or I.

P.S. The word MIRV was never mentioned, they said that the missile could carry 3-5 200-300kg warheads simultaneously which to me is the same thing. Ahseeba also knows they mentioned this.


----------



## Safriz

^^^ Yes no MIRV mentioned,but the impact point was 'at sea'.
Which is unusual for most Pakistani missile tests.

Another thing is that india is actively developing ABM capabilities,and if we think Pakistan is doing nothing to counter act that...we are wrong.



Mav3rick said:


> I can't find it, have tried on multiple occasions but the subsequent release of information has just vanished. I actually posted the news myself too, so should be in one of my posts. I am trying to search my own posts but nothing is coming up wrt MIRV or even Shaheen which is not possible.
> 
> Try google on subsequent ISPR press release on Shaheen 1A as well as my posts on this forum, I will do the same and post when I find something.



Yes because ISPR press release of 25th April was later edited and 'MIRV' was deleted.

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## The Deterrent

Safriz said:


> ^^^ Yes no MIRV mentioned,but the impact point was 'at sea'.
> Which is unusual for most Pakistani missile tests.


It is not unusual, its just it was probably the first time it was _published_. Both Shaheen-I and II have been tested into the waters for years now.



> Yes because ISPR press release of 25th April was later edited and 'MIRV' was deleted.


Because the statement was based on jingoism.

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## Mav3rick

AhaseebA said:


> He did, in one of his latest interviews.



I must have missed it, care to post it?





AhaseebA said:


> You also have to consider the physical parameters and feasible capabilities before believing an illogical statement.



Honestly, I have witnessed evolution of technology enough to consider those of us morons who still doubt the ability of technology to stump us. The line is not targeted at anyone in particular. However, we must continue to keep an open mind specially when the advancement in technology has been in leaps and bounds with every year.





AhaseebA said:


> Thats because it was something made by some fanboy on wikipedia. I don't recall anything like that (200-300 kg warheads) being present in the official ISPR release.



The thing on Wikipedia still exists, however I never quoted wiki, I quoted ISPR.



Safriz said:


> Yes because ISPR press release of 25th April was later edited and 'MIRV' was deleted.



I don't think ISPR would edit things out of earlier releases. It's as if the subsequent release of information has simply vanished.


----------



## Safriz

Ok....so what do you guys thik pakistan is doing to counter act indian ABM?
Missiles like Ghauri are clay pigeons for india's ABM


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## The Deterrent

Safriz said:


> Ok....so what do you guys thik pakistan is doing to counter act indian ABM?
> Missiles like Ghauri are clay pigeons for india's ABM



Diversifying the delivery systems (Babur, Ra'ad and Nasr), developing more advanced ones (Shaheen-IA, Shaheen-III) and increasing the overall numbers.

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## Safriz

AhaseebA said:


> Diversifying the delivery systems (Babur, Ra'ad and Nasr), developing more advanced ones (Shaheen-IA, Shaheen-III) and increasing the overall numbers.



An airborne radar can track and lock on to any cruise missile,so Babus isnt the silver bullet.
Firing multiple missiles on the same target doesnt make sense either.
The improvement must be in some other direction,or our security via nuclar threat is compromised.


----------



## The Deterrent

Safriz said:


> An airborne radar can track and lock on to any cruise missile,so Babus isnt the silver bullet.
> Firing multiple missiles on the same target doesnt make sense either.
> The improvement must be in some other direction,or our security via nuclar threat is compromised.



Indian BMD is neither mature yet nor has been deployed. Counter-measures will arrive, in due time.

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## The Deterrent

Mav3rick said:


> I must have missed it, care to post it?


Sure, here it is. From 01:00 to 01:15








> Honestly, I have witnessed evolution of technology enough to consider those of us morons who still doubt the ability of technology to stump us. The line is not targeted at anyone in particular. However, we must continue to keep an open mind specially when the advancement in technology has been in leaps and bounds with every year.



The only problem is that this particular technology is neither pioneered by us nor we have done any thing concrete about it to master it. It isn't about the closed-mindness, it is about what actually exists.

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## v9s

Mav3rick said:


> The word subsequent means "occurring or coming later or after". Please search for the subsequent release of information, which seems to have vanished. Even windjammer posted something similar later on, maybe he has better search skills then your or I.
> 
> P.S. The word MIRV was never mentioned, they said that the missile could carry 3-5 200-300kg warheads simultaneously which to me is the same thing. Ahseeba also knows they mentioned this.



Okay. Please be more clear next time.

I was not aware of any subsequent ISPR release of info, nor of the retraction.

I follow news and discussions on Pakistani missile tests religiously so I don't know how I missed that.


----------



## Mav3rick

AhaseebA said:


> Sure, here it is. From 01:00 to 01:15



Buddy, there is neither mention of Shaheen 1A nor any thing apart from the declared ranges of our Missiles. So where is this interview about Shaheen 1A? 





AhaseebA said:


> The only problem is that this particular technology is neither pioneered by us nor we have done any thing concrete about it to master it. It isn't about the closed-mindness, it is about what actually exists.



One does not have to be a pioneer to master a technology, or to further development on that technology. And let me post 1 more fact: None of us know our exact capability in terms of missile ranges/payloads etc. These things are always classified beyond measure.

EDIT: By the way, it is a pain to watch youtube videos.


----------



## The Deterrent

Mav3rick said:


> Buddy, there is neither mention of Shaheen 1A nor any thing apart from the declared ranges of our Missiles. So where is this interview about Shaheen 1A?



He used the term "Shaheen-I version 3" for Shaheen-IA. And I'm not assuming it just like that, this particular nomenclature exists.



> One does not have to be a pioneer to master a technology, or to further development on that technology. And let me post 1 more fact: None of us know our exact capability in terms of missile ranges/payloads etc. These things are always classified beyond measure.


Of course. Yeah, sure.


----------



## Safriz

Can somebody post a comparison between dimensions of Shaheen and a known MIRV carrying missile?
I am on mobile,so cant do it.


----------



## farhan_9909

would nt Shaheen III serve as our first SLV/PSLV?

Shaheen III SLV model from ideas 2002

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## SQ8

shuntmaster said:


> Pakistan's Shaheen missiles are modified Chinese M-series (DongFeng) missiles.
> I doubt the Chinese will give missile technology to Pakistan which will enable Pakistan to target any major Chinese city in central or eastern China.
> The present Shaheen-II with range of 1500-2000Kms range is enough to cover India, but cannot reach beyond Xinjiang or Tibet areas of China.



Right, you were there developing them 

The missiles have very little to do with Chinese, please read up on my posts on the subject and till then refrain from posting on the matter till you have gained more knowledge than what is given at Indian forums.

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## Zarvan

Oscar said:


> Right, you were there developing them
> 
> The missiles have very little to do with Chinese, please read up on my posts on the subject and till then refrain from posting on the matter till you have gained more knowledge than what is given at Indian forums.


What ever is the case if Pakistan has already developed the long range Missiles than Pakistan should test it because Pakistan is already in worst situation it can't get worse than this


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## SQ8

Zarvan said:


> What ever is the case if Pakistan has already developed the long range Missiles than Pakistan should test it because Pakistan is already in worst situation it can't get worse than this



Nope, it can get worse.. 
Wait it till it gets much worse.

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## Mav3rick

AhaseebA said:


> He used the term "Shaheen-I version 3" for Shaheen-IA. And I'm not assuming it just like that, this particular nomenclature exists.



Too many ifs and buts still, for a fact he used the word Shaheen 1 v3 and not Shaheen 1A which is not only easier but also hits the mark perfectly. For all intents and purposes, let us assume that the nomenclature does indeed exist but what if Shaheen 1 v3 is an upgrade of Shaheen 1 Missiles to v3 specification? 

Even then, he said the range was 1000km-1200km, which is roughly the declared official range. He wouldn't go around revealing state secrets now would he?


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## Mav3rick

Safriz said:


> Can somebody post a comparison between dimensions of Shaheen and a known MIRV carrying missile?
> I am on mobile,so cant do it.



There can be no logical comparison. MIRV is usually associated with ICBM's......we don't have examples of SRBM/IRBM with MIRV.


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## A.Rafay

Oscar said:


> Nope, it can get worse..
> Wait it till it gets much worse.



I think our testing of Ghauri missiles is enough to keep enemies away.


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## A.Rafay

Mav3rick said:


> Buddy, there is neither mention of Shaheen 1A nor any thing apart from the declared ranges of our Missiles. So where is this interview about Shaheen 1A?


Shaheen 1A Exists 

Heres a report that confirms it

Pakistan Launches Nuke-Capable Missile in Trial | Global Security Newswire | NTI


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## Mav3rick

A.Rafay said:


> Shaheen 1A Exists
> 
> Heres a report that confirms it
> 
> Pakistan Launches Nuke-Capable Missile in Trial | Global Security Newswire | NTI



Bhai....poori baat parh lia keren, asaani rahegi.

Mention of Shaheen 1A, or lack of it, was focused entirely on that interview as per my post. I am well aware of the existence of Shaheen 1A and have posted about it's capabilities a few posts back.


----------



## [--Leo--]

Mav3rick said:


> Bhai....poori baat parh lia keren, asaani rahegi.
> 
> Mention of Shaheen 1A, or lack of it, was focused entirely on that interview as per my post. I am well aware of the existence of Shaheen 1A and have posted about it's capabilities a few posts back.



what is the speed of shaheen 1A?


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## The Deterrent

Safriz said:


> Can somebody post a comparison between dimensions of Shaheen and a known MIRV carrying missile?
> I am on mobile,so cant do it.



Shaheen-I has a diameter of 1 meter (0.88 m according to some sources). The Alpha version seems to have greater diameter, but the exact specifications haven't been revealed yet.
The Shaheen-II has a diameter of 1.4 meters.

The *UGM-27 Polaris SLBM* (Diameter: 1.37m, Range: 4600 km) housed _THREE Mk 2 re-entry vehicles,_ each with a W-58 warhead of 200 kt yield. This arrangement was originally described as a "cluster warhead" but was replaced with the term Multiple Re-Entry Vehicle (MRV). The three warheads were spread about a common target and were not independently targeted (such as a MIRV missile is).







The Soviet *RSD-10 Pioneer* (_NATO:_ SS-20 Saber) (Stage Diameter: 1.8m, Range: 600-5000 km) was an IRBM which could be armed with up to _THREE 150 kt MIRVs._
(the warhead assembly's diameter is not known, which is lesser than the stage diameter).
















_*Note:* Both the Polaris SLBM and Pioneer IRBM were not the first attempts of US and USSR at developing MIRVs. US introduced MIRVs on the Minuteman-III for the first time.
_
From the above comparisons, it is a easy to judge whether Pakistan has this capability in its current missiles or not. Also, neither the MIRV-buses are present nor a more round and wider nose shroud is there to hint the presence of any such capability. Furthermore, the range of the current Shaheen series (claimed 2500 km, tested up to 2000 km) is far too less to enable the missiles to deploy MIRVs in space.



Mav3rick said:


> Too many ifs and buts still, for a fact he used the word Shaheen 1 v3 and not Shaheen 1A which is not only easier but also hits the mark perfectly. For all intents and purposes, let us assume that the nomenclature does indeed exist but what if Shaheen 1 v3 is an upgrade of Shaheen 1 Missiles to v3 specification?
> 
> Even then, he said the range was 1000km-1200km, which is roughly the declared official range. He wouldn't go around revealing state secrets now would he?



Let us just wait for the next test, shall we?

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## SQ8

shuntmaster said:


> Even the TELs of Shaheen is same as the Chinese M-11/18 missiles...



Right.. 
please keep such wonderful observations to yourself.. and refrain from further pointless discussion on this matter following the line you are.. 
You have been warned...

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## PakShah

Gentelman said:


> are you kidding or you really are soo amazingly stupid??
> soory for that language bt u just made me laugh......



I'm surprised too by his comparision.

The DF-11 is smaller than Shaheen 2. Don;t where this guy get's his information.

Shaheen 2 a copy of China's DF-11? Come on man give me q break. They are not the same. 

lol Chinese TELs use 4 wheels while Pakistani ones use 6 wheels. And Indians think Pakistanis copied Chinese stuff. 

Why not also copy their TELS. Why do an incomplete job. LOL

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## SQ8

PakShah said:


> I'm surprised too by his comparision.
> 
> The DF-11 is smaller than Shaheen 2. Don;t where this guy get's his information.
> 
> Shaheen 2 a copy of China's DF-11? Come on man give me q break. They are not the same.
> 
> lol Chinese TELs use 4 wheels while Pakistani ones use 6 wheels. And Indians think Pakistanis copied Chinese stuff.
> 
> Why not also copy their TELS. Why do an incomplete job. LOL



I blame the impression partly.. (and only partly since most the posts in question are fuelled by jingoism and belittling bigotry)... on the Ghauri.. Which is in fact a Pakistani Nodong missile which was purchased from NK during the 95-97 period with meetings held in Dubai. 
But those were desperate times and we needed a delivery system while Shaheen was being developed.

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## PakShah

Oscar said:


> I blame the impression partly.. (and only partly since most the posts in question are fuelled by jingoism and belittling bigotry)... on the Ghauri.. Which is in fact a Pakistani Nodong missile which was purchased from NK during the 95-97 period with meetings held in Dubai.
> But those were desperate times and we needed a delivery system while Shaheen was being developed.



But here is the interesting catch, Shaheen is not Ghauri.

Could have Ghauri influenced Shaheen? I don't think so. I'm aware Ghauri is a missle of totally different design.


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## PakShah

Oscar said:


> I blame the impression partly.. (and only partly since most the posts in question are fuelled by jingoism and belittling bigotry)... on the Ghauri.. Which is in fact a Pakistani Nodong missile which was purchased from NK during the 95-97 period with meetings held in Dubai.
> But those were desperate times and we needed a delivery system while Shaheen was being developed.



The Nodong Missile system works quite well. It was worth its purchase along with the blueprints.


----------



## Kompromat

@shuntmaster Stop derailing the thread or you are getting a holiday.

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## jhankar

I don't think Tipu has been completely developed yet. Its going to take atleast a decade more to complete its development.


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## A1Kaid

Last Hope said:


> It has been disclosed, and is under development.
> Its is a IRBM, range *5000-5500 KM*, and nuclear warhead capable of carrying *2200*KG
> 
> I havent got anyfurther information, but I _guess_ only 15-25 would be made, and it would be tested in early 2012.
> 
> *Tipu ICBM*, whose range is is *7500-8500KM* and capable of carrying nuclear warhead downto *4500KG* is also under development so is *Ghauri III IRBM*, range *4000-45000KM* and also nuclear warhead downto *1800KG*
> 
> Tipu would be developed until mid 2014 and Ghauri III can be expected next year.
> 
> _
> (These dates are my personal guess)_



Any update on the Tipu ICBM and Ghauri III IRBM?


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## farhan_9909

A1Kaid said:


> Any update on the Tipu ICBM and Ghauri III IRBM?



Ghauri III cancelled by Mushy

Tipu or any other ICBM has never been officially confirmed


Shaheen III is probably the only project alive with upto 4500km range and SLV/PSLV variant as well

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## Last Hope

A1Kaid said:


> Any update on the Tipu ICBM and Ghauri III IRBM?



None.... It has been some time that I was intouch with missile program.

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## The Deterrent

A1Kaid said:


> Any update on the Tipu ICBM and Ghauri III IRBM?



Ghauri III---cancelled in favor of Shaheen-III.
Tipu ICBM---Any missile system by that name and of that capabilities is not under-development.

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## farhan_9909

could the Shaheen III might also have got cancelled?

Because watching Dr Samar mubarak interview where he said we don't need a missile to reach beyond india.

He clearly said we don't have ICBM project since this is not our requirement

Because since 1999-2000 when the project was initiated we have never heard anything about this program..and from the past 7-8 not even a clue


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## The Deterrent

farhan_9909 said:


> could the Shaheen III might also have got cancelled?
> 
> Because watching Dr Samar mubarak interview where he said we don't need a missile to reach beyond india.
> 
> He clearly said we don't have ICBM project since this is not our requirement
> 
> Because since 1999-2000 when the project was initiated we have never heard anything about this program..and from the past 7-8 not even a clue



No. Shaheen-III is under-development, thats for sure. 

Correct, Pakistan does not requires any missile system with range in excess of 3000-3500 km to target any part of India from a considerable strategic depth. It is the assumption of Shaheen-III being a high-end IRBM (potential ICBM) which is causing the confusion.
No, the project initiated post-2005 as an upgraded variant of Shaheen-II.

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## Cyberian

farhan_9909 said:


> Ghauri III cancelled by Mushy
> 
> Tipu or any other ICBM has never been officially confirmed
> 
> 
> Shaheen III is probably the only project alive with upto 4500km range and SLV/PSLV variant as well



Salaam to all the Muslims,

And a few more shorter range ones, Allahu Alam.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

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## Xracer

any idea when we are testing something Big???????????


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## Gentelman

AhaseebA said:


> No. Shaheen-III is under-development, thats for sure.
> 
> Correct, Pakistan does not requires any missile system with range in excess of 3000-3500 km to target any part of India from a considerable strategic depth. It is the assumption of Shaheen-III being a high-end IRBM (potential ICBM) which is causing the confusion.
> No, the project initiated post-2005 as an upgraded variant of Shaheen-II.



soo after Shaheen 3 we can hope an land to air missile program or some sort of Missile defence shield project by NESCOM??
I am truely waiting for our own anti aircraft batteries and missile shields...


----------



## farhan_9909

SUPARCO said:


> Salaam to all the Muslims,
> 
> And a few more shorter range ones, Allahu Alam.
> 
> Salaam to all the Muslims.



walikumslam

May i know what you meant by few shorter range one as well?


----------



## The Deterrent

Gentelman said:


> soo after Shaheen 3 we can hope an land to air missile program or some sort of Missile defence shield project by NESCOM??
> I am truely waiting for our own anti aircraft batteries and missile shields...



A lot of R&D and budget is required for designing the guidance system of SAMs, so thats unlikely.


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## Gentelman

AhaseebA said:


> A lot of R&D and budget is required for designing the guidance system of SAMs, so thats unlikely.



i suppose Shaheen Nissile program budget is too very high...
after Shaheen 3 or maybe after Taimoor what project will remain???
soo i suppose after having these missiles the next major project will be one of them....
as NESCOM is much capable in such developments....
maybe NESCOM will create some missiles for Navy but thats unlikely as we have nothing developed in here....


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## The Deterrent

Gentelman said:


> i suppose Shaheen Nissile program budget is too very high...
> after Shaheen 3 or maybe after Taimoor what project will remain???
> soo i suppose after having these missiles the next major project will be one of them....
> as NESCOM is much capable in such developments....
> maybe NESCOM will create some missiles for Navy but thats unlikely as we have nothing developed in here....



Of course.
Taimoor does not exists. No idea about other future projects...
May be, but most probably not.


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## Cyberian

Xracer said:


> any idea when we are testing something Big???????????



Salaam to all the Muslims,



Pakistan needs an excuse (a genuine excuse) to test the big one. Currently it's not a good idea when 48 militaries are fighting a lost war next door.

Let them move out first, then Pakistan can start chest thumping. If Pakistan started showing off now, it'll give others a reason to dig deep and stay there for good to keep an eye on Pakistan.

Thora sara, bilkul thora sara aur sabr ki zaroorat hai.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

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## muse

launch a satellite high i earth orbit - that will send a message that the technology has been mastered - and if required other places besides space can be accessed

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## SQ8

muse said:


> launch a satellite high i earth orbit - that will send a message that the technology has been mastered - and if required other places besides space can be accessed



While that would work, it would also send a message the ICBM capability has been achieved.. 
i.e the process of being able to add sufficient stages to send a missile all the way to say.. Israel.
Not a correct message to send.
Do we have that capability ? Yes..
Do the US and Israelis know we have that capability? Yes.

Do they know we know? Do we know that they know? Yes
But They dont "Know"..and we dont "know".. and that is how the status quo is kept from escalating to that topic.

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## muse

Arabs with guns same difference as Muslums with ICBM's? Long and Winding road, that leads your door..


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## Gentelman

AhaseebA said:


> Of course.
> Taimoor does not exists. No idea about other future projects...
> May be, but most probably not.



then what can be major future program of NESCOM??
UAVs and ballistic and cruise missile programs are running under NESCOM umbrella...
till development of Shaheen 3 i hope that Improved Burraq will be under development and Babur with increased range will also be on it's way....soo i suppose a mojor project will be undertaken maybe it can be ICBM by probably not.....
well about Taimor i just heard some reports...


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## umair86pk

Gentelman said:


> soo after Shaheen 3 we can hope an land to air missile program or some sort of Missile defence shield project by NESCOM??
> I am truely waiting for our own anti aircraft batteries and missile shields...



why to build our own when we can get cheaper ones from China like HQ-9 and KS-1A


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## Gentelman

umair86pk said:


> why to build our own when we can get cheaper ones from China like HQ-9 and KS-1A



soo HQ-09 is what we really want??
it's not satisfying our need..
and own research is always good as people will get jobs and at home thise will be more cheaper and maybe we can have some export customers and earn money by exporting....
at home we can built them in small amount of time and induce them earlier ...
but there is no such plans at present...


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## bilawalkhan

Last Hope said:


> It has been disclosed, and is under development.
> Its is a IRBM, range *5000-5500 KM*, and nuclear warhead capable of carrying *2200*KG
> 
> I havent got anyfurther information, but I _guess_ only 15-25 would be made, and it would be tested in early 2012.
> 
> *Tipu ICBM*, whose range is is *7500-8500KM* and capable of carrying nuclear warhead downto *4500KG* is also under development so is *Ghauri III IRBM*, range *4000-45000KM* and also nuclear warhead downto *1800KG*
> 
> Tipu would be developed until mid 2014 and Ghauri III can be expected next year.
> 
> _
> (These dates are my personal guess)_



DEAR, why would Pakistan need a range greater that 3000 km, or even 2500 is enough for us, which is already at our disposal in the form of shaheen-2, so in my point of view, we should increase efficiency and accuracy of existing missiles instead of wasting our money on the things we don't need....And indeed the Ghouri series is not worth keeping, its high time for their retirement. The days of liquid fueled missiles are gone, hours of fueling them up, they would be exactly sitting ducks for the enemy.....

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## bilawalkhan

Gentelman said:


> then what can be major future program of NESCOM??
> UAVs and ballistic and cruise missile programs are running under NESCOM umbrella...
> till development of Shaheen 3 i hope that Improved Burraq will be under development and Babur with increased range will also be on it's way....soo i suppose a mojor project will be undertaken maybe it can be ICBM by probably not.....
> well about Taimor i just heard some reports...


Nescom is sitting idle right now, as up to my opinion


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## farhan_9909

No country is stopping Suparco from launching satellite.


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## [--Leo--]

umair86pk said:


> why to build our own when we can get cheaper ones from China like HQ-9 and KS-1A



if we self build that would be more cheaper and won't be wasting more dollars 
And the technology will be upto dated time to time


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## Gentelman

bilawalkhan said:


> Nescom is sitting idle right now, as up to my opinion



NESCOM research and development is also expanded to civil things...
Buraq is under development along with Shaheen 3 and Babur varients...



bilawalkhan said:


> Nescom is sitting idle right now, as up to my opinion



NESCOM research and development is also expanded to civil things...
Buraq is under development along with Shaheen 3 and Babur varients...


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## [--Leo--]

Gentelman said:


> NESCOM research and development is also expanded to civil things...
> Buraq is under development along with Shaheen 3 and Babur varients...
> 
> 
> 
> NESCOM research and development is also expanded to civil things...
> Buraq is under development along with Shaheen 3 and Babur varients...



since 2009 nothing came from burraq and shaheen 3?why are you so sure about it ?any reason or any reliable source could you confirm it please


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## bilawalkhan

Oscar said:


> While that would work, it would also send a message the ICBM capability has been achieved..
> i.e the process of being able to add sufficient stages to send a missile all the way to say.. Israel.
> Not a correct message to send.
> Do we have that capability ? Yes..
> Do the US and Israelis know we have that capability? Yes.
> 
> Do they know we know? Do we know that they know? Yes
> But They dont "Know"..and we dont "know".. and that is how the status quo is kept from escalating to that topic.



u should be a genius, absorbing all the complex scenario in to few words, but i don't think that Pakistan can have that much technological advancement.


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## SQ8

bilawalkhan said:


> u should be a genius, absorbing all the complex scenario in to few words, but i don't think that *Pakistan can have that much technological advancement*.



The problem is not of having that advancement..
its of shooting ourselves in the foot and not getting there when we can.

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## Gentelman

[--Leo--];4006200 said:


> since 2009 nothing came from burraq and shaheen 3?why are you so sure about it ?any reason or any reliable source could you confirm it please



Shaheen 3 development thread is running on PDF chk it out....
search google for further info....
Burraq is for sure under development and may be induce in 2014-15 it's 1st design didnot satisfied PA so a second better design is under development....

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## The Deterrent

Gentelman said:


> then what can be major future program of NESCOM??
> UAVs and ballistic and cruise missile programs are running under NESCOM umbrella...
> till development of Shaheen 3 i hope that Improved Burraq will be under development and Babur with increased range will also be on it's way....soo i suppose a mojor project will be undertaken maybe it can be ICBM by probably not.....
> well about Taimor i just heard some reports...



NESCOM isn't undertaking _entire_ projects. The advanced R&D is being done there, and it co-ordinates between the different subsidiaries for collaborative research.
Future prospects include development of IRBMs and SLVs.

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## IND151

Last Hope said:


> It has been disclosed, and is under development.
> Its is a IRBM, range *5000-5500 KM*, and nuclear warhead capable of carrying *2200*KG
> 
> I havent got anyfurther information, but I _guess_ only 15-25 would be made, and it would be tested in early 2012.
> 
> *Tipu ICBM*, whose range is is *7500-8500KM* and capable of carrying nuclear warhead downto *4500KG* is also under development so is *Ghauri III IRBM*, range *4000-45000KM* and also nuclear warhead downto *1800KG*
> 
> Tipu would be developed until mid 2014 and Ghauri III can be expected next year.
> 
> _
> (These dates are my personal guess)_



any source for the claims?



> *Tipu ICBM*, whose range is is *7500-8500KM* and capable of carrying nuclear warhead downto *4500KG*



I don't think payload will be that high.

If payload is 4,500 then Tipu will weigh between 90 to 100 tons and will be launched from missile launch train, something like SS-24 Scalp

I don't think PA wants that heavy missile.

Tipu will , I think, rather be like Topol, which can be carried and launched from TEL.

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## farhan_9909

IND151 said:


> any source for the claims?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think payload will be that high.
> 
> If payload is 4,500 then Tipu will weigh between 90 to 100 tons and will be launched from missile launch train, something like SS-24 Scalp
> 
> I don't think PA wants that heavy missile.
> 
> Tipu will , I think, rather be like Topol, which can be carried and launched from TEL.



Tipu is a dream

Taimur is i guess the Shaheen III SLV

Shaheem III is the longest range possible missile known to be in development with 4500km range.


----------



## Xracer

SUPARCO said:


> Salaam to all the Muslims,
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan needs an excuse (a genuine excuse) to test the big one. Currently it's not a good idea when 48 militaries are fighting a lost war next door.
> 
> Let them move out first, then Pakistan can start chest thumping. If Pakistan started showing off now, it'll give others a reason to dig deep and stay there for good to keep an eye on Pakistan.
> 
> Thora sara, bilkul thora sara aur sabr ki zaroorat hai.
> 
> Salaam to all the Muslims.



Your right mate But we have waited alot


----------



## bilawalkhan

Xracer said:


> Your right mate But we have waited alot



koi Shaheen 3 nam ki cheez nai, drama tha pakistion ka,aik car to bna nai sakte or 4500 range ka missile banayenge, han jub china se sample ajayega hum copy ya reverse engennering karlenege, or yahi kiya hain hum ne ab tak,

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## Xracer

bilawalkhan said:


> koi Shaheen 3 nam ki cheez nai, drama tha pakistion ka,aik car to bna nai sakte or 4500 range ka missile banayenge, han jub china se sample ajayega hum copy ya reverse engennering karlenege, or yahi kiya hain hum ne ab tak,



Hmmmmmmm an other mr Indian under Pakistani Flag Pakistanio toh likna nahi ata Pakistani Bantay hooooo

I think your are forgetting that we also made our-self a nuclear power if the rest of the world can made ICBM we can tooo  and who told you we cant build a car Check Google mate


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## bilawalkhan

Xracer said:


> Hmmmmmmm an other mr Indian under Pakistani Flag Pakistanio toh likna nahi ata Pakistani Bantay hooooo
> 
> I think your are forgetting that we also made our-self a nuclear power if the rest of the world can made ICBM we can tooo  and who told you we cant build a car Check Google mate



I am not an indian, i am Pukhtun, yeah dont be sarcastic, every one knows from where the gas centrifuges came


----------



## Xracer

bilawalkhan said:


> I am not an indian, i am Pukhtun, yeah dont be sarcastic, every one knows from where the gas centrifuges came





Pakistani scientists has there own developed centrifuges gas even in 1984.Bro be a real patriot  don't be a troller


----------



## Bossman

bilawalkhan said:


> I am not an indian, i am Pukhtun, yeah dont be sarcastic, every one knows from where the gas centrifuges came



You mean where the design came from? I think would have been quiet difficult for Dr. Khan to bring thousand of centrifuges in his suitcase. In any case Pakistan moved very quickly from PI centrifuges introduced by Dr. Khan to more advanced PII design and now it is all plutonium. 

No big deal, where the design or the hardware came from, infact it is the samrt way to go. Every body steals, copys or buys, if they can. The Americans did it, the Soviets did it, the Chinese do it. Only DRDO doesn't do because they think they are such geniuses and that is why they fail in every thing and than they go looking for foreign partners.


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## keyguru

that's great.


----------



## bilawalkhan

Xracer said:


> Pakistani scientists has there own developed centrifuges gas even in 1984.Bro be a real patriot  don't be a troller


my life and service all for my Pakistan, i am a patriot thats why i want some tit for tat action from pakistan towards india, whats the answer for Agni 5 a Shaheen 1-A, i was expecting something special from our engineers and scientists.


----------



## Xracer

bilawalkhan said:


> my life and service all for my Pakistan, i am a patriot thats why i want some tit for tat action from pakistan towards india, whats the answer for Agni 5 a Shaheen 1-A, i was expecting something special from our engineers and scientists.



Shaheen III is official ask any Senior member


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## Bossman

bilawalkhan said:


> my life and service all for my Pakistan, i am a patriot thats why i want some tit for tat action from pakistan towards india, whats the answer for Agni 5 a Shaheen 1-A, i was expecting something special from our engineers and scientists.



Tit for tat is a childish a approach. It has to do with risk perception and threat. Why spend money on 5000 km missile when the real danger is next door.

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## ARSENAL6

Bossman said:


> Tit for tat is a childish a approach. It has to do with risk perception and threat. Why spend money on 5000 km missile when the real danger is next door.



Are you sure ? 
Because America has attacked Pakistan more than India as a whole !


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## naseem shah

ARSENAL6 said:


> Are you sure ?
> Because America has attacked Pakistan more than India as a whole !



american weakness israel is well within are range


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## ARSENAL6

naseem shah said:


> american weakness israel is well within are range



Is that why they continuly hitting civillains in Pakistan instead of terrorist ?


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## naseem shah

can pakistan launch an inproved babur in reply of nirbhay missile



ARSENAL6 said:


> Is that why they continuly hitting civillains in Pakistan instead of terrorist ?



let the next govt come we will see who dares to hit civilians or any one else

will we be able to test taimur in response of agni 6 or it will be another embarrassment


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## Bossman

ARSENAL6 said:


> Are you sure ?
> Because America has attacked Pakistan more than India as a whole !



Not all threats have to be dealt with missiles. America is in the process of being brought down to its knees right next door in Afghanistan. No missiles needed for that. Just another turn on the balls.



naseem shah said:


> can pakistan launch an inproved babur in reply of nirbhay missile
> 
> 
> 
> let the next govt come we will see who dares to hit civilians or any one else
> 
> will we be able to test taimur in response of agni 6 or it will be another embarrassment



Nirbhay failed and we don't want to compete in failure. Also please read some of the earlier posts and learn something about the stupidity of tit for tat missile development before you post silly remarks.



naseem shah said:


> can pakistan launch an inproved babur in reply of nirbhay missile
> 
> 
> 
> let the next govt come we will see who dares to hit civilians or any one else
> 
> will we be able to test taimur in response of agni 6 or it will be another embarrassment



Nirbhay failed and we don't want to compete in failure. Also please read some of the earlier posts and learn something about the stupidity of tit for tat missile development before you post silly remarks.


----------



## ARSENAL6

Bossman said:


> Not all threats have to be dealt with missiles. America is in the process of being brought down to its knees right next door in Afghanistan. No missiles needed for that. Just another turn on the balls.



Shaheen 3 may not be an Weapon but it can be made into a vehical for launching into space Pakistan very one Vehical Space launch.

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## al_asad_al_mulk

Shaheen-3 Or Tipu Or Haider
4000 + Kms
Payload: 1500 Kgs
Guidence: INS & Terminal
Single or MIRV HE/NE
Ready for Tests (Not Tested Plolitical Reasons / project rollback by Musharaf along with Ghauri -3 even work on SLV stopped by him cazz slv can be modified as IRBM or ICBM he dont want to destroy Israel or make US/Israel angery)
No other long range missile under development
Shaheen-3 & Ghauri-3 engine/ground tests successful
According to sources pakistan in agreemnet with USA not to make any missile with range more then 2000 Kms and according to my sources its confirmed


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## al_asad_al_mulk

Salaam to All...
There are some rumours that Pakistan rollback all Long Range miisile programes even Shaheen 2 production and upgradation stoped since 2008/9 no test of shaheen 2 carried out..what you ppl think


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## The Deterrent

al_asad_al_mulk said:


> Salaam to All...
> There are some rumours that Pakistan rollback all Long Range miisile programes even Shaheen 2 production and upgradation stoped since 2008/9 no test of shaheen 2 carried out..what you ppl think



No, those are false rumors. 
Shaheen-II hasn't been tested since 2008 because it qualified all of the 6 test flights, with the Army Strategic Forces Command training its men during at least two of them.
The upgrade will soon appear in the form of Shaheen-III.

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## genmirajborgza786

AhaseebA said:


> No, those are false rumors.
> Shaheen-II hasn't been tested since 2008 because it qualified all of the 6 test flights, with the Army Strategic Forces Command training its men during at least two of them.
> The upgrade will soon appear in the form of Shaheen-III.



that's good news ,what is the expected range of shaheen-III ?

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## farhan_9909

AhaseebA said:


> No, those are false rumors.
> Shaheen-II hasn't been tested since 2008 because it qualified all of the 6 test flights, with the Army Strategic Forces Command training its men during at least two of them.
> The upgrade will soon appear in the form of Shaheen-III.



But we Do need something like Shaheen IIA

Slightly increase range
Better guidense system
Few structural upgrades

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## The Deterrent

farhan_9909 said:


> But we Do need something like Shaheen IIA
> 
> Slightly increase range
> Better guidense system
> Few structural upgrades



That is exactly what Shaheen-III is. Not of 4500km range or MIRVed.



genmirajborgza786 said:


> what is the expected range of shaheen-III ?



~3000 km.

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## farhan_9909

AhaseebA said:


> That is exactly what Shaheen-III is. Not of 4500km range or MIRVed.
> 
> 
> 
> ~3000 km.



Cool

whatever the Shaheen III is..i just hope that they test it soon..its been almost 6 years.i am aware of Shaheen III and no progress yet

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## Viper0011.

Bossman said:


> Not all threats have to be dealt with missiles. America is in the process of being brought down to its knees right next door in Afghanistan. No missiles needed for that. Just another turn on the balls.



I am so amazed and surprised at the lack of knowledge being presented in certain posts like this one. 'American is being brought down to its knees'.......?? REALLY???? That's some serious big words son!!! and without a clue of the reality. It'll be nice to read up on American military, foreign policy, American interests, economy, etc. You'll get an answer that way.

With all the corruption and bad governance, with bankruptcy looming on the horizon every year for the past many years, with terrorism killing thousands of people every year, with businessmen moving to America and other foreign and eastern countries......I can still NOT say that Pakistan is going down on its knees. It still runs somehow in every aspects. Although poor but it still runs!!!

How could you POSSIBLY say that about the world's largest economy, extremely stable country and political environment for business and jobs, superb financial growth, the most modern, the strongest and the state of the art military...???? A country that can fight about seven consecutive wars if it really has to??? Unbelievable!!! the truth is, American doesn't want to and doesn't need to stay in Afghanistan with full force. There will ALWAYS be presence there, primarily to monitor the terrorist activity by Al-Qaeda, etc and to keep things in check and monitored about the Chinese and the Iranians. That would be done through the equipment and personnel that will remain behind in Afghanistan. There is enough electronic equipment and infrastructure to do the job with far less people. Why keep a full force there when they may not have enough to do there anymore??
How does reduction in forces make 'America bending down on its knees'?? You guys have some CRAZY thoughts and the post just sounds silly, no offense. It will be nice if you make comments that are somewhat realistic.

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## Safriz

From the looks of Shaheen 1 Pakistan may be working on improving their solid fuel rocket motor design.
If that is happening,then future long(er) range missiles can be less bulky due to efficient motor.
It is plausible that trying to improve on rocket motot may be one of many factors delaying Shaheen 3.

While Ghauri's liquid fuel motor was north korean design...
Any ideas from where solid motor design came to Pakistan?

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## The Deterrent

Safriz said:


> While Ghauri's liquid fuel motor was north korean design...
> Any ideas from where solid motor design came to Pakistan?



China, of course. The DF-11's solid motor design was the basic learning step in the 90s, and replicating them as Ghaznavis was helpful. Whole of the Shaheen series evolved out of this design, with modifications and improvements on it.

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## ARSENAL6

They are realistic. What seem to be more amazing is your RAW cockiness. Failed f22, bodies bags in their hundrends out of Afganistan, Iraq is back into civil war and you can't even keep track of your Nuclear weapons


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## k!ng_0f_(~)3@rt$

ARSENAL6 said:


> They are realistic. What seem to be more amazing is your RAW cockiness. Failed f22, bodies bags in their hundrends out of Afganistan, Iraq is back into civil war and you can't even keep track of your Nuclear weapons



what are you saying? With whom you are talking in this post?

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## Dr. Strangelove

k!ng_0f_(~)3@rt$ said:


> what are you saying? With whom you are talking in this post?


probably he is nuts and is talking to himself

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## TheFlyingPretzel

k!ng_0f_(~)3@rt$ said:


> what are you saying? With whom you are talking in this post?





wasm95 said:


> probably he is nuts and is talking to himself





orangzaib said:


> I am so amazed and surprised at the lack of knowledge being presented in certain posts like this one. 'American is being brought down to its knees'.......?? REALLY???? That's some serious big words son!!! and without a clue of the reality. It'll be nice to read up on American military, foreign policy, American interests, economy, etc. You'll get an answer that way.
> 
> With all the corruption and bad governance, with bankruptcy looming on the horizon every year for the past many years, with terrorism killing thousands of people every year, with businessmen moving to America and other foreign and eastern countries......I can still NOT say that Pakistan is going down on its knees. It still runs somehow in every aspects. Although poor but it still runs!!!
> 
> How could you POSSIBLY say that about the world's largest economy, extremely stable country and political environment for business and jobs, superb financial growth, the most modern, the strongest and the state of the art military...???? A country that can fight about seven consecutive wars if it really has to??? Unbelievable!!! the truth is, American doesn't want to and doesn't need to stay in Afghanistan with full force. There will ALWAYS be presence there, primarily to monitor the terrorist activity by Al-Qaeda, etc and to keep things in check and monitored about the Chinese and the Iranians. That would be done through the equipment and personnel that will remain behind in Afghanistan. There is enough electronic equipment and infrastructure to do the job with far less people. Why keep a full force there when they may not have enough to do there anymore??
> How does reduction in forces make 'America bending down on its knees'?? You guys have some CRAZY thoughts and the post just sounds silly, no offense. It will be nice if you make comments that are somewhat realistic.



He's responding to the above.


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## Zarvan

@orangzaib if a superpower is being defeated by bunch off Taliban than their can be no bigger humiliation and defeat than this this is going down on knees and we should stop discussing future missiles and wit for them to be tested


----------



## bigest

china and pakistan's common emeny :India


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## Jango

Coming back to the topic now, Shaheen III is much more of a reality than we think!  China the allq weather friend again playing its part.

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## Major Sam

nuclearpak said:


> Coming back to the topic now, Shaheen III is much more of a reality than we think!  China the allq weather friend again playing its part.



Please will you elaborate


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## Last Hope

usama waqas said:


> Please will you elaborate



I'm sure that you love solving riddles


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## Major Sam

Last Hope said:


> I'm sure that you love solving riddles



I hate riddles when its about my favourite things


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## Last Hope

usama waqas said:


> I hate riddles when its about my favourite things



This makes it even more interesting to solve


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## Major Sam

Last Hope said:


> This makes it even more interesting to solve


Not fair bro


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## Dr. Strangelove

nuclearpak said:


> Coming back to the topic now, Shaheen III is much more of a reality than we think!  China the allq weather friend again playing its part.



what will be its range 3500km or more


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## Gessler

Can anyone tell me about Pak's progress in the field of Maneuvering Re-entry Warheads (MARVs)?

What types of missiles in Pak inventory are currently equipped with that system?


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## SQ8

Gessler said:


> Can anyone tell me about Pak's progress in the field of Maneuvering Re-entry Warheads (MARVs)?
> 
> What types of missiles in Pak inventory are currently equipped with that system?



Only the Shaheen series.


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## Jango

usama waqas said:


> Please will you elaborate



Nope....



wasm95 said:


> what will be its range 3500km or more



You're getting closer...

Point is, we try to keep our goodies strength secret....we deliberately give off wrong info. Now guess yourself.


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## Gessler

Oscar said:


> Only the Shaheen series.



What type of maneuvering does it use?

Thrusters or control fins? In there any thread on PDF I should
refer to..?


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## The Deterrent

Gessler said:


> What type of maneuvering does it use?
> 
> Thrusters or control fins? In there any thread on PDF I should
> refer to..?



Go through this thread following this post:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ounter-india-s-abm-system-38.html#post3918456

Hope it helps..


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## Bobby

nuclearpak said:


> Nope....
> 
> 
> 
> You're getting closer...
> 
> Point is, we try to keep our goodies strength secret....*we deliberately give off wrong info. Now guess yourself.*



ok....250 km


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## Viper0011.

Zarvan said:


> @orangzaib if a superpower is being defeated by bunch off Taliban than their can be no bigger humiliation and defeat than this this is going down on knees and we should stop discussing future missiles and wit for them to be tested



I'd highly recommend re-read your post and act a bit mature before making silly statements. You guys are very emotional and close minded and use these big terms for no valid reason. "A super power is being defeated"?? REALLY?
Here's the real view (and it'll hurt a little, sorry): Business finished. Al-Qaeda dismantled to a point where it poses little to no threat to the US and its allies. US bases are and will be in Afghanistan for strategic purposes. 
That means keeping an eye on China and Iran and even Russia and other neighbors, the US military's ability to quickly conduct strikes in the region and control events as they want to due to assets that will remain in Afghanistan. After all this, it doesn't make sense to keep 100k troops when you have complete superiority in responding to any emerging threat!!
100K troops cause us to spend hundreds of billions and at this point, it may be a waste in the US government's eyes. When you can kill enemies with one short flight using a couple of A-10's or F-16's, why have thousands of troops sitting around? The US never went in with the idea to 'capture' Afghanistan. The purpose was to dismantle Al-Qaeda and kill OBL.

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## Gessler

AhaseebA said:


> Go through this thread following this post:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ounter-india-s-abm-system-38.html#post3918456
> 
> Hope it helps..



Okay...you were saying Shaheen-II does not have MARV capability in the first place.

and @Oscar was saying in this thread that Shaheen has MARV...so who should I believe
now? Why are reports about Pak ballistic missiles always so contradicting?

Why can't the missile agencies or the military release official info regarding the missiles?


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## SQ8

Gessler said:


> Okay...you were saying Shaheen-II does not have MARV capability in the first place.
> 
> and @Oscar was saying in this thread that Shaheen has MARV...so who should I believe
> now? Why are reports about Pak ballistic missiles always so contradicting?
> 
> *Why can't the missile agencies or the military release official info regarding the missiles*?



The day they do that, they'll change their inherent paranoia. As for the MARV, I only state what I hear through horse mouth sources.. and no sources are the same. I cant state the system since the statement Ive heard only mentioned the series. 

The only indicator to my source on this particular information is the Pakistani equivalent of him in India


> Avinash Chander

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## bigest

It's difficult to guess


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## muse

What the heck is this MARV you lot are speaking of?


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## SQ8

muse said:


> What the heck is this MARV you lot are speaking of?



Maneuvering Re-entry warhead. Basically something that does not just come in a ballistic straight line or like a projectile is able to change its path in the upper atmosphere and before re-entry.. essentially making it extremely difficult for even the most potent interceptor missiles to get it.

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## genmirajborgza786

Oscar said:


> The day they do that, they'll change their inherent paranoia. As for the MARV, I only state what I hear through horse mouth sources.. and no sources are the same. I cant state the system since the statement Ive heard only mentioned the series.
> 
> The only indicator to my source on this particular information is the Pakistani equivalent of him in India



chief I found an article where there is picture of different Pakistani missile's the last one there is indicated to be shaheen iii can someone please authenticate this @AhaseebA your input 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-81NcHpMBE...j_6bufY/s1600/Pakisran_missile_technology.jpg


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## SQ8

genmirajborgza786 said:


> chief I found an article where there is picture of different Pakistani missile's the last one there is indicated to be shaheen iii can someone please authenticate this @AhaseebA your input
> 
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-81NcHpMBE...j_6bufY/s1600/Pakisran_missile_technology.jpg



Hypothetical, Not an actual picture. Had many like this with the purported "tipu" ICBM and what not. At this point, there is no move to test the Shaheen III platform. Right now, The headache is on our military's initial rush to induct the Ghauri(Nodong) in large numbers(_because they were supposedly cheaper.. the Shaheen is much more sophisticated.. and its story much more diverse and compelling if one has the privilege to hear it from the horse's mouth_). Even after a lot of efforts to update the guidance on Ghauri.. its basically only slightly more reliable than the SCUD. The recent "falling skies" episode of the Ghauri test was yet another attempt by Rolex-Khan labs to fix the numerous problems in the missile... that clearly did not work out exactly. 

The competition between the two camps of KRL and NESCOM is pretty high with supporters(for reasons sometimes very unpatriotic) of each eyeing the big multi million dollar investment for missiles and tech(_and commissions_). All in all though, the Shaheen series.. infact pretty much everything that comes out of NDC.. are much more superior and very "current" as compared to the KRL systems. It also has to do with leadership.. since Dr Burni is one of the few men who really knows what he is talking about.

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## Bratva

Oscar said:


> Hypothetical, Not an actual picture. Had many like this with the purported "tipu" ICBM and what not. At this point, there is no move to test the Shaheen III platform. Right now, The headache is on our military's initial rush to induct the Ghauri(Nodong) in large numbers(_because they were supposedly cheaper.. the Shaheen is much more sophisticated.. and its story much more diverse and compelling if one has the privilege to hear it from the horse's mouth_). Even after a lot of efforts to update the guidance on Ghauri.. its basically only slightly more reliable than the SCUD. The recent "falling skies" episode of the Ghauri test was yet another attempt by Rolex-Khan labs to fix the numerous problems in the missile... that clearly did not work out exactly.
> 
> The competition between the two camps of KRL and NESCOM is pretty high with supporters(for reasons sometimes very unpatriotic) of each eyeing the big multi million dollar investment for missiles and tech(_and commissions_). All in all though, the Shaheen series.. infact pretty much everything that comes out of NDC.. are much more superior and very "current" as compared to the KRL systems. It also has to do with leadership.. since Dr Burni is one of the few men who really knows what he is talking about.



There is only one advantage of faulty ghauris, fire 10 cheap ghauri towards enemy, their ABM will be busy in engaging them, mean while we fire Shaheen or BABUR which could easily sneak through them

I agree, latest SHAHEEN- 1 A test video speaks volume of NESCOM craftsmanship

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## SQ8

mafiya said:


> There is only one advantage of faulty ghauris, fire 10 cheap ghauri towards enemy, their ABM will be busy in engaging them, mean while we fire Shaheen or BABUR which could easily sneak through them



Yeah.. but ten cheap ghauris end up costing a lot(with the commission) as well.
A swarm attack would be brilliant if you overwhelm the defenses.. but that has to be successful only if you fire more than the enemy can handle.

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## The Deterrent

genmirajborgza786 said:


> chief I found an article where there is picture of different Pakistani missile's the last one there is indicated to be shaheen iii can someone please authenticate this @AhaseebA your input
> 
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-81NcHpMBE...j_6bufY/s1600/Pakisran_missile_technology.jpg



Agreed with Sir @Oscar . CGIs like this one are not official in nature, you will get to see the system after a test flight, not before that.

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## PakShaheen79

mafiya said:


> There is only one advantage of faulty ghauris, fire 10 cheap ghauri towards enemy, their ABM will be busy in engaging them, mean while we fire Shaheen or BABUR which could easily sneak through them
> 
> *I agree, latest SHAHEEN- 1 A test video speaks volume of NESCOM craftsmanship*



any link plz?


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## Bratva

PakShaheen79 said:


> any link plz?



http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...013-pakistan-test-fires-hatf-4-shaheen-i.html


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## Ammyy

Oscar said:


> Yeah.. but ten cheap ghauris end up costing a lot(with the commission) as well.
> A swarm attack would be brilliant if you overwhelm the defenses.. but that has to be successful only if you fire more than the enemy can handle.



And how can this mass movement (preparation to fire so many missiles) hide from enemy???


----------



## Thorough Pro

We will tell the band master to keep the volume low, btw did your blue ocean navy succeeded in catching a small dingy fiull of indian government supported terrorists to carry out government conspired carnage in Mumbai?



Ammyy said:


> And how can this mass movement (preparation to fire so many missiles) hide from enemy???

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## Ammyy

Thorough Pro said:


> We will tell the band master to keep the volume low, btw did your blue ocean navy succeeded in catching a small dingy fiull of indian government supported terrorists to carry out government conspired carnage in Mumbai?



You can call TTP government sponsored cause they create taliban by themselves not Pakistani nationalist Ajmal Kasab and his partners.

Still can you simply answer first question???


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## The Deterrent

Ammyy said:


> And how can this mass movement (preparation to fire so many missiles) hide from enemy???



It can't be hidden. What exactly is your point?


----------



## Ammyy

AhaseebA said:


> It can't be hidden. What exactly is your point?



If we seen mass movement before launch then how can you think we will not get prepare for same with full force?


----------



## The Deterrent

Ammyy said:


> If we seen mass movement before launch then how can you think we will not get prepare for same with full force?



I didn't, neither did the post which you quoted.

The missile defenses (ABM) were being referred to, that a large number of offensive missiles may effectively overcome the BMD. The response is another matter.


----------



## Ammyy

AhaseebA said:


> I didn't, neither did the post which you quoted.
> 
> The missile defenses (ABM) were being referred to, that a large number of offensive missiles may effectively overcome the BMD. The response is another matter.



Apart from MIRV I dnt think an effective ABM face any problem while dealing with large number of missiles cause you can not fire so many ballistic missiles at same time and this what I want to say, this will give your enemy time to get prepare. 
What you say?


----------



## The Deterrent

Ammyy said:


> Apart from MIRV I dnt think an effective ABM face any problem while dealing with large number of missiles cause you can not fire so many ballistic missiles at same time and this what I want to say, this will give your enemy time to get prepare.
> What you say?



Thats correct, unless Pakistan develops a robust Nuclear Weapons Program (like that of USA/Russia), volleys of missiles would be difficult to launch.
However, it also depends on the BMD's effectiveness (which in India's case isn't even functional yet) in countering Ballistic missiles which have countermeasures (chaff/decoys). In the larger picture, BMD's effectiveness can also be greatly reduced by taking out BMD radars by Anti-radiation missiles or cruise missiles.

I suggest you should go through this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-can-pakistan-counter-india-s-abm-system.html

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## Ammyy

AhaseebA said:


> Thats correct, unless Pakistan develops a robust Nuclear Weapons Program (like that of USA/Russia), volleys of missiles would be difficult to launch.
> However, it also depends on the BMD's effectiveness (which in India's case isn't even functional yet) in countering Ballistic missiles which have countermeasures (chaff/decoys). In the larger picture, BMD's effectiveness can also be greatly reduced by taking out BMD radars by Anti-radiation missiles or cruise missiles.
> 
> I suggest you should go through this thread:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-can-pakistan-counter-india-s-abm-system.html



 To develop such kind of capability is difficult for both India n Pakistan due to limited resources and mainly money. 

But India is in lead due to numbers (missiles, launch platforms.. a real fact) 

And about BDM, some thing is better then nothing... Our own BDM is ready and will deploy early next year atleast at Delhi and Mumbai...... And no one know the reality about S300


----------



## The Deterrent

Ammyy said:


> To develop such kind of capability is difficult for both India n Pakistan due to limited resources and mainly money.



I never said that Pakistan can achieve that.



> But India is in lead due to numbers (missiles, launch platforms.. a real fact)



How come?



> And about BDM, some thing is better then nothing... Our own BDM is ready and will deploy early next year atleast at Delhi and Mumbai...... And no one know the reality about S300



Okay, so umm Pakistan's NESCOM is doing nothing about it, right?
Yeah I know about that too. Bought in the late 90s, S-300 is deployed around New Dehli and Chandigarh, and is limited to intercepting tactical SRBMs only (upto ~300km).

Kindly stay on topic, and if you have to discuss Indian BMD, post in the relevant thread.

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## Karl

Actually, according to my sources that I cannot reveal, the Shaheen III/SLV is a 3 stage missile with VERY similar dimensions and a range comparable to India's Agni V. A new larger first stage booster has been in development for quite some time.

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## Ammyy

Karl said:


> Actually, according to my sources that I cannot reveal, the Shaheen III/SLV is a 3 stage missile with VERY similar dimensions and a range comparable to India's Agni V.



I sure you cant reveal this all


----------



## Sinnerman108

Oscar said:


> Yeah.. but ten cheap ghauris end up costing a lot(with the commission) as well.
> A swarm attack would be brilliant if you overwhelm the defenses.. but that has to be successful only if you fire more than the enemy can handle.





Ammyy said:


> Apart from MIRV I dnt think an effective ABM face any problem while dealing with large number of missiles cause you can not fire so many ballistic missiles at same time and this what I want to say, this will give your enemy time to get prepare.
> What you say?



The concept here is to overwhelm the anti missile system, who says one needs an actual loaded missile to do that ?
It can be done with cheaper decoys too.


----------



## Ammyy

salman108 said:


> The concept here is to overwhelm the anti missile system, who says one needs an actual loaded missile to do that ?
> It can be done with cheaper decoys too.



 Not in practice scenario... You just can not fire a ballistic missile with dummy payload towards enemy...


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## Ammyy

This will be funnies event in history of world if dummy missile penetrate SAM and actual stopped by it.


----------



## rockstar08

orangzaib said:


> I'd highly recommend re-read your post and act a bit mature before making silly statements. You guys are very emotional and close minded and use these big terms for no valid reason. "A super power is being defeated"?? REALLY?
> Here's the real view (and it'll hurt a little, sorry): Business finished. Al-Qaeda dismantled to a point where it poses little to no threat to the US and its allies. US bases are and will be in Afghanistan for strategic purposes.
> That means keeping an eye on China and Iran and even Russia and other neighbors, the US military's ability to quickly conduct strikes in the region and control events as they want to due to assets that will remain in Afghanistan. After all this, it doesn't make sense to keep 100k troops when you have complete superiority in responding to any emerging threat!!
> 100K troops cause us to spend hundreds of billions and at this point, it may be a waste in the US government's eyes. When you can kill enemies with one short flight using a couple of A-10's or F-16's, why have thousands of troops sitting around? The US never went in with the idea to 'capture' Afghanistan. The purpose was to dismantle Al-Qaeda and kill OBL.





hahahahh you still think Al-qaeda and OBL is a real story ? ? ? they say we kill OBL where is the body ? he was no.1 terrorist and no seal took a pic to confirm his identity ? and there was Dna test then where are they ?? did you ever see the evidence they provide to back that they really kill OBL in pak ..... its worse than a fantasy story which a pathan and sadar father tells his son before sleep .... !! 
they are here to DE-nuclearize pak , you so called COAS says that long time ago  he was a former ISI director we can give a little credibility to his statement no ?

for your So CAlled superpower , please kindly google Vietnam war , i am sure you will have your answers ....we can not fight with US or any other country , because we now a divided nation with full of idiots fighting for , islam, cast , shia&sunni , a small civil war is already started within 3 states of pak , Sind ( look at karachi ) , KPK ( peshawar and FATA ) and of course Baluchistan, (specially thanks to our impotent politician who know RAW is behind but never dare to speak ) ...

shaheen III , gauri III and TIPU ICBM are just rumors nothing more so wash your face with water and wake up from this sweet dream

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## HRK

Oscar said:


> Even after a lot of efforts to update the guidance on Ghauri.. its basically only slightly more reliable than the SCUD. The recent "falling skies" episode of the Ghauri test was yet another attempt by Rolex-Khan labs to fix the numerous problems in the missile... that clearly did not work out exactly.


 @Oscar Sir Jee......this may look silly to ask, but pls allowe me ask "Why they do not instal Shaheen Guidance system on Ghauri resolve the its issue....??


----------



## SQ8

HRK said:


> @Oscar Sir Jee......this may look silly to ask, but pls allowe me ask "Why they do not instal Shaheen Guidance system on Ghauri resolve the its issue....??



Personal jealousies, pride and competition.

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## farhan_9909

Oscar said:


> Personal jealousies, pride and *competition*.



between credible scientists and a metallurgical engineer


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## SQ8

farhan_9909 said:


> between credible scientists and a metallurgical engineer



Yup. They are after all.. people.

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## Safriz

Oscar said:


> Yup. They are after all.. people.



I have a different theory.
Pakistan is not intetested in liquid fuelled missile anymore.because Ghauri needs about 2 hour preparation before launch but shaheen needs minutes.

Other reason is that Pakistan does not have enough fissile material for large nukes and thats why s heavy lifter like Ghauris not needed.


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## SQ8

Dreamreaper said:


> I have a different theory.
> Pakistan is not intetested in liquid fuelled missile anymore.because Ghauri needs about 2 hour preparation before launch but shaheen needs minutes.
> 
> Other reason is that Pakistan does not have enough fissile material for large nukes and thats why s heavy lifter like Ghauris not needed.



Second is incorrect, the first is correct. But at the same time the professional jealousy bit is quite true as well.

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## Dillinger

Oscar said:


> Second is incorrect, the first is correct. But at the same time the professional jealousy bit is quite true as well.



Strap on inertial guidance system? When the CSS-6 was procured the guidance would have come with it. What nitwit would jeopardize the reliability of a strategic weapon due to a rivalry, wouldn't the generals skin him alive?

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## SQ8

Dillinger said:


> Strap on inertial guidance system? When the CSS-6 was procured the guidance would have come with it. What nitwit would jeopardize the reliability of a strategic weapon due to a rivalry, wouldn't the generals skin him alive?



The Nodong came with a very simple guidance system, which replaced with a strap on system that used the same wiring and controls for the Gimbals and stuff. The Shaheen had its guidance system designed anew with help from various sources abroad( _similar sources were also used by India and there was more than one instance where the two rival delegations found themselves in the same living room of particular contacts in Dubai waiting to procure knowledge and information_). 

Many would, since a strategic weapon contract is worth millions of dollars.. and you give too much credit to the "patriotism" of Generals involved in such programs. After all, if the US can have lobbyists who coax generals into preferring a system in return for later perks..why cant the same or worse be here?

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## Dillinger

Oscar said:


> The Nodong came with a very simple guidance system, which replaced with a strap on system that used the same wiring and controls for the Gimbals and stuff. The Shaheen had its guidance system designed anew with help from various sources abroad( _similar sources were also used by India and there was more than one instance where the two rival delegations found themselves in the same living room of particular contacts in Dubai waiting to procure knowledge and information_).
> 
> Many would, since a strategic weapon contract is worth millions of dollars.. and you give too much credit to the "patriotism" of Generals involved in such programs. After all, if the US can have lobbyists who coax generals into preferring a system in return for later perks..why cant the same or worse be here?



HOW is that possible. For example all our missiles have been made by the same group of labs together- there are no competitors. Surely its the same in Pakistan? You folks have multiple labs/agencies working on parallel projects and competing with each other? 

So ummm..where do you think our know-how for the RLG came from?


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## SQ8

Dillinger said:


> HOW is that possible. For example all our missiles have been made by the same group of labs together- there are no competitors. Surely its the same in Pakistan? You folks have multiple labs/agencies working on parallel projects and competing with each other?
> 
> So ummm..where do you think our know-how for the RLG came from?



Two main competitors in A.Q Khan Labs and in PAEC(now all under the umbrella of NDC). A read up on the history of Pakistan's nuclear and missile program would be nice.. think I wrote about it before here somewhere(I can never find my old posts).

It depends on who spoke to who. Many cite Russia as the sole and only source for India's understanding of weapons tech but forget that even with all the hugs and kisses the Russians(till very recently) would stick to handing out Monkey Models to India for its military. Moreover, to ensure a more diverse supplier base there was a lot of running around done in arms market to make contacts and dealings. After all, as third world nations looking to survive in this dog eat dog world..anything goes.

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## Dillinger

Oscar said:


> Two main competitors in A.Q Khan Labs and in PAEC(now all under the umbrella of NDC). A read up on the history of Pakistan's nuclear and missile program would be nice.. think I wrote about it before here somewhere(I can never find my old posts).
> 
> It depends on who spoke to who. Many cite Russia as the sole and only source for India's understanding of weapons tech but forget that even with all the hugs and kisses the Russians(till very recently) would stick to handing out Monkey Models to India for its military. Moreover, to ensure a more diverse supplier base there was a lot of running around done in arms market to make contacts and dealings. After all, as third world nations looking to survive in this dog eat dog world..anything goes.



France perhaps? They seemed to have provided all the LRG/RLGs for the ships and fighters till date. It could have been reverse engineering but something tells me that would hack off France quite a bit, or perhaps they are supplying certain components, the latter seems likely. The question arose in my mind since only now- this year- have I seen a FOG system being tested and used by the DRDO. Which as you pointed out happens to be a level below the RLG in terms of complexity. 

One can never find their old posts. Btw I had asked you a question on the PDF management thread.

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## SQ8

Dillinger said:


> France perhaps? They seemed to have provided all the LRG/RLGs for the ships and fighters till date. It could have been reverse engineering but something tells me that would hack off France quite a bit, or perhaps they are supplying certain components, the latter seems likely. The question arose in my mind since only now- this year- have I seen a FOG system being tested and used by the DRDO. Which as you pointed out happens to be a level below the RLG in terms of complexity.
> 
> One can never find their old posts. Btw I had asked you a question on the PDF management thread.



They may be supplying certain components lower than what they use, or perhaps those that they can sell prints off without too many flags being raised. Take certain flight-computers for early Pakistani UAV's that came straight from IAI and Elbit. Complete with circuit diagrams...but these were models that the Israelis were no longer using or in second line systems. They knew it would get out anyway, so why not make a buck or two out of it.

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## Dillinger

Oscar said:


> They may be supplying certain components lower than what they use, or perhaps those that they can sell prints off without too many flags being raised. Take certain flight-computers for early Pakistani UAV's that came straight from IAI and Elbit. Complete with circuit diagrams...but these were models that the Israelis were no longer using or in second line systems. They knew it would get out anyway, so why not make a buck or two out of it.



Well a certain medium range test article that ran first with the RLG showed phenomenal accuracy- so whoever it is gave us the good stuff- well either that or someone's lying. That having been said, my bet is France or maybe JUST MAYBE Unkil decided to butt in. You agree right, if you're just coming out with the FOG on your own then there is no chance you leapfrogged onto a LRG two years before said FOG came out?

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## SQ8

Dillinger said:


> Well a certain medium range test article that ran first with the RLG showed phenomenal accuracy- so whoever it is gave us the good stuff- well either that or someone's lying. That having been said, my bet is France or maybe JUST MAYBE Unkil decided to butt in. You agree right, if you're just coming out with the FOG on your own then there is no chance you leapfrogged onto a LRG two years before said FOG came out?



There may be other reasons. Either the system that allows the RLG to be super accurate was not that easy to replicate at home which is why the FOG was developed in-house to "replace" the RLG at a later stage as an indigenous application. 
Or

There were parallel teams with their own little rivalries and one simply leapfrogged the other by getting help from outside and coming up with the RLG. All part of R&D internal politics and friendly competition.

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## Dillinger

Oscar said:


> There may be other reasons. Either the system that allows the RLG to be super accurate was not that easy to replicate at home which is why the FOG was developed in-house to "replace" the RLG at a later stage as an indigenous application.
> Or
> 
> There were parallel teams with their own little rivalries and one simply leapfrogged the other by getting help from outside and coming up with the RLG. All part of R&D internal politics and friendly competition.



Such is life. Although still no answer to my question- might as well ask it here and risk the repudiation that might result from said question- with the management change and the Jr. TT- Can I still threaten my BDian pals with genocide?  This is a question that has been haunting me and Hype.
@Oscar on the bit about replicating the specific components- I doubt that we even even trying- that would tick off whoever allowed us access in the first place and IF we didn't succeed then it would be a loss overall.

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## SQ8

Dillinger said:


> Such is life. Although still no answer to my question- might as well ask it here and risk the repudiation that might result from said question- with the management change and the Jr. TT- Can I still threaten my BDian pals with genocide?  This is a question that has been haunting me and Hype.



I've already posted as to where lines must be drawn at light banter,flaming and derailment.

Another interesting that should be looked at regarding RLG(Ring Laser Gyro..for those who arent following the discussion) and FOG(Fibre Optic Gyro) is price. Technically FOGs are a newer invention as compared to the RLG and cheaper..which is why they are better suited for applications such as a low cost cruise missile or on ships.

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## Dillinger

Oscar said:


> I've already posted as to where lines must be drawn at light banter,flaming and derailment.
> 
> Another interesting that should be looked at regarding RLG(Ring Laser Gyro..for those who arent following the discussion) and FOG(Fibre Optic Gyro) is price. Technically FOGs are a newer invention as compared to the RLG and cheaper..which is why they are better suited for applications such as a low cost cruise missile or on ships.



That would make sense. SRBM/MRBMs and LRCMs with a range not exceeding 1200-2000km would do just as well with FOGs, in fact most ships would get along fine too. We will be using the one we've developed on the new PG kit among other things to start with. Ergo my question that day (after which I did the digging wrt the LRGs and my resultant doubts) about FOGs being economically more viable, since a PGM kit is going to be mass produced- maybe in the thousands. So I think what you've stated might just be the most apt reason.

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## Hyperion

@Oscar @Dillinger, LRG's/FOG's are not prohibitively expensive in the first place. Yes, if you include the R&D cost into the equation, then maybe, however, if you neglect those costs (in case "imported") then, it's nothing more than a few thousand dollars, that too perhaps. Besides, how many would you need for the ICBM's (let's say going for the LRG's)? 50 - 100 - 200 - 300 - 400 - 500, sure, but not 10,000!


P.S. I always knew RLG's as LRG's.... Laser Ring Gyro's.... when did the naming change???

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## Mughal-Prince

rockstar08 said:


> hahahahh you still think Al-qaeda and OBL is a real story ? ? ? they say we kill OBL where is the body ? he was no.1 terrorist and no seal took a pic to confirm his identity ? and there was Dna test then where are they ?? did you ever see the evidence they provide to back that they really kill OBL in pak ..... its worse than a fantasy story which a pathan and sadar father tells his son before sleep .... !!
> they are here to DE-nuclearize pak , you so called COAS says that long time ago  he was a former ISI director we can give a little credibility to his statement no ?
> 
> for your So CAlled superpower , please kindly google Vietnam war , i am sure you will have your answers ....we can not fight with US or any other country , because we now a divided nation with full of idiots fighting for , islam, cast , shia&sunni , a small civil war is already started within 3 states of pak , Sind ( look at karachi ) , KPK ( peshawar and FATA ) and of course Baluchistan, (specially thanks to our impotent politician who know RAW is behind but never dare to speak ) ...
> 
> shaheen III , gauri III and TIPU ICBM are just rumors nothing more so wash your face with water and wake up from this sweet dream



You are collecting sympathy with writing a few things in favour then feeding us what you like ... False flagger ...


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## farhan_9909

let suppose the project is ON or is to get The funds

Under how much can this Shaheen III with 4500km be completed?will it cost in excess of a billion dollars?

Is there really a variant of Shaheen II as Shaheen IIA-S coming up with MIRV?


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## rockstar08

princeiftikharmirza said:


> You are collecting sympathy with writing a few things in favour then feeding us what you like ... False flagger ...



i am not here to tell you good but false news , if you expect this from me , so i am sorry sir .... but if anything i mentioned is wrong kindly explain , and please now dont tell me this that i am an indian who is trolling or etc ..


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## Hyperion

Yara, no one can ever confirm if it has started already or even completed. However, I can say this much, all of the technologies existed as far back as 2007. I mean all the tech.



farhan_9909 said:


> let suppose the project is ON or is to get The funds
> 
> Under how much can this Shaheen III with 4500km be completed?will it cost in excess of a billion dollars?
> 
> Is there really a variant of Shaheen II as Shaheen IIA-S coming up with MIRV?

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## farhan_9909

Hyperion said:


> Yara, no one can ever confirm if it has started already or even completed. However, I can say this much, all of the technologies existed as far back as 2007. I mean all the tech.



well in 2004.if i am not wrong.

the Govt annouced to launch ghauri III after few days

But dont know why they drop the test?

does it mean the missile was developed or only faulty ones were imported from north korea?


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## Hyperion

In 2007, "critical" components were ready to be tested. These have been improved over the years. I'm not talking about Ghauri III. I'm talking something like Shaheen VII..... 



farhan_9909 said:


> well in 2004.if i am not wrong.
> 
> the Govt annouced to launch ghauri III after few days
> 
> But dont know why they drop the test?
> 
> does it mean the missile was developed or only faulty ones were imported from north korea?

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## farhan_9909

some old sources regarding the ghauri III



> Pakistan Completes 'Trials' of Ghauri-III Missile Engine
> 
> Islamabad The News 30 September 1999 page 10
> ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has successfully completed the trials of Ghauri-III missile's engine at Kahuta Research Laboratories on Wednesday.
> An official said the trials were completed at 2:30 p.m. and the ballistic missile (Ghauri-III) would cover the range of over 3,000 kilometres.



Pakistan Completes 'Trials' of Ghauri-III Missile Engine



Hyperion said:


> In 2007, "critical" components were ready to be tested. These have been improved over the years. I'm not talking about Ghauri III. I'm talking something like Shaheen VII.....



i guess it would be much better to improve the Shaheen II first
Converting it into MIRV and a slightly range increase to 3500km max than getting into a completely new program

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## Hyperion

Doesn't work like that. Once you have mastered a technology, you can take a quantum leap. For example, canister launch of certain "cruise" missiles has helped us in parallel development of some other technology. The day we have a 'true' vertical launch capability for it, then again it will help in many other spheres. At the moment, all tech is mature to take the leap, then why crawl? 

Yes, it will fail. It may fail once or twice, however, after that you will have a viable scary system. Furthermore, don't forget, some of these leaps save you big time on the cost. It's not alway that newer bigger systems are expensive. Once you have a mature platform (where you don't have to innovate and develop newer systems everyday), and when economies of scale come into play, then it becomes actually cheaper to own bigger better systems.



farhan_9909 said:


> i guess it would be much better to improve the Shaheen II first
> Converting it into MIRV and a slightly range increase to 3500km max than getting into a completely new program

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## Hyperion

@Dillinger, did you notice the launch of your K missile.... observe the initial ejection from the pontoon.


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## 美味中国

BBS to brother countries for the first time, very happy, please take care.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Do we have a Classified Missile called Tipu ? I have been finding alot of speculation about the existance of such a missile


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## AUz

Hyperion said:


> In 2007, "*critical"* components were ready to be tested. These have been improved over the years. I'm not talking about Ghauri III. I'm talking something like *Shaheen VII*





Hyperion said:


> Doesn't work like that. Once you have mastered a technology, you can take a *quantum leap*. For example, canister launch of certain "cruise" missiles has helped us in parallel development of some other technology. The day we have a 'true' vertical launch capability for it, then again it will help in many other spheres. At the moment, all tech is mature to take the leap, then why crawl?
> 
> Yes, it will fail. It may fail once or twice, however, after that you will have *a viable scary system*. Furthermore, don't forget, some of these leaps save you big time on the cost. It's not alway that newer bigger systems are expensive. Once you have a mature platform (where you don't have to innovate and develop newer systems everyday), and when economies of scale come into play, then it becomes actually cheaper to own bigger better systems.



Bold words.... 

Can Pakistan make an effective, high-tech, MIRVed nuclear ICBM within say three years of time-period if emergency arises?

Simple answer will do..or even a hint


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## The Deterrent

AUz said:


> Bold words....
> 
> Can Pakistan make an effective, high-tech, MIRVed nuclear ICBM within say three years of time-period if emergency arises?
> 
> Simple answer will do..or even a hint



Yes, everything you mentioned, minus the ICBM part (as in 5500+km range).


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## Kompromat

AhaseebA said:


> Yes, everything you mentioned, minus the ICBM part (as in 5500+km range).



Whatever happened to our SLV.


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## The Deterrent

Aeronaut said:


> Whatever happened to our SLV.


Not coming till 2016-17.

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## Kompromat

AhaseebA said:


> Not coming till 2016-17.




We ought to develop our space capabilities.


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## The Deterrent

Aeronaut said:


> We ought to develop our space capabilities.



Of course, its just that the process has been restarted with a better approach in mind, which will be beneficial in the long run.

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## AUz

AhaseebA said:


> Yes, everything you mentioned, minus the ICBM part (as in 5500+km range).



So we can have a MIRVed, high-tech, effective ballistic missile but not with the range of 5500 km? 

I have *some* background in Aerospace engineering, but no way near a technical guy, but from what I understood back then was that "range" is almost the "easiest" thing to increase..if you have some critical technology like seeker, guidance etc.

How accurate my above lines are?

Do you know what "exactly" the obstacle Pakistan is facing in the path of developing an ICBM? Talking about technical obstacle, not political ramifications etc.


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## The Deterrent

AUz said:


> So we can have a MIRVed, high-tech, effective ballistic missile but not with the range of 5500 km?
> 
> I have *some* background in Aerospace engineering, but no way near a technical guy, but from what I understood back then was that "range" is almost the "easiest" thing to increase..if you have some critical technology like seeker, guidance etc.
> 
> How accurate my above lines are?
> 
> Do you know what "exactly" the obstacle Pakistan is facing in the path of developing an ICBM? Talking about technical obstacle, not political ramifications etc.



Apologies, I should have said Pakistan "won't" instead of "can't". The technological base is there, and it can be done. It will take more time though (4-5 years). However Pakistan doesn't have any enemy that far so Pakistan won't develop an ICBM.

There are things like all-composite motor designs, efficient solid-fuel grain design (though advancements are being made in these two fields), canister development etc. But these obstacles can be overcome given time and proper incentive.

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## AUz

AhaseebA said:


> Apologies, I should have said Pakistan "won't" instead of "can't". The technological base is there, and it can be done. It will take more time though (4-5 years). *However Pakistan doesn't have any enemy that far so Pakistan won't develop an ICBM.*
> 
> There are things like all-composite motor designs, efficient solid-fuel grain design (though advancements are being made in these two fields), canister development etc. But these obstacles can be overcome given time and proper incentive.



Neither do Israel, France, and U.K...but still, all of them have 7,000 km+ range ICBMs....

Well I hope situation in Pakistan improves, and political/religious violence gets eliminated..with economy on track and more nationalist parties in power (PTI, a radicallyy improved PML-N (Hopefully) etc), we might decide to go for an ICBM in 2020's or something...but it is good that we do have the required technological base and advancements in different critical fields are also being made.

You know..the same old mantra can also work....Christians have it, Jews have it, Hindus have, Atheists have it, and so it is time for Muslims to have it. Lets build an Islamic ICBM!  (Pun Intended).

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## The Deterrent

AUz said:


> Neither do Israel, France, and U.K...but still, all of them have 7,000 km+ range ICBMs....
> 
> Well I hope situation in Pakistan improves, and political/religious violence gets eliminated..with economy on track and more nationalist parties in power (PTI, a radicallyy improved PML-N (Hopefully) etc), we might decide to go for an ICBM in 2020's or something...but it is good that we do have the required technological base and advancements in different critical fields are also being made.
> 
> You know..the same old mantra can also work....Christians have it, Jews have it, Hindus have, Atheists have it, and so it is time for Muslims to have it. Lets build an Islamic ICBM!  (Pun Intended).



No, they all had enemies...UK and France had to target every part of Soviet Union. And Israelis have the Samson option.

Yeah, economy should be the main concern.

Haha

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## AUz

AhaseebA said:


> No, they all had enemies...UK and France had to target every part of Soviet Union. *And Israelis have the Samson option.*
> 
> Yeah, economy should be the main concern.
> 
> Haha



*Exactly!!!!!!!!!!! 
*But yeah, economy should be first priority...once we develop a respectable, advance economy, and come out of the clutches of uncle sam and IMF...and achieve our freedom in true sense Inshallah, then we can work towards "certain option" to protect all of that...


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## kurup

AhaseebA said:


> Of course, its just that the process has been restarted with a better approach in mind, which will be beneficial in the long run.



What is the new approach and how is it different from the old one ??


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## shuntmaster

When is the first test launch scheduled?


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## genmirajborgza786

@AhaseebA , will we be stuck at 2500 km only or is there missiles with more range being developed, I mean I can understand why we are not pursuing a 5500 km one , but still we can at least afford to have something more then the 2500 km range , what is the max range being developed @ the moment?


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## araz

AUz said:


> Neither do Israel, France, and U.K...but still, all of them have 7,000 km+ range ICBMs....
> 
> Well I hope situation in Pakistan improves, and political/religious violence gets eliminated..with economy on track and more nationalist parties in power (PTI, a radicallyy improved PML-N (Hopefully) etc), we might decide to go for an ICBM in 2020's or something...but it is good that we do have the required technological base and advancements in different critical fields are also being made.
> 
> You know..the same old mantra can also work....Christians have it, Jews have it, Hindus have, Atheists have it, and so it is time for Muslims to have it. Lets build an Islamic ICBM!  (Pun Intended).


 
That may be true but the eyes of the world are not on them. They are on you!! I dont think the strategy of "we dont need it" is right however the developement should be carried out for peaceful purposes like satellite launches. There is more to tech development than war. Similarly we are stopped from developing these things not because of fear that we will conduct a war but the fear that we will develop technologies further which would allow us a step into the next level and make us a competitor rather than a buyer which we currently are.
Araz

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## The Deterrent

kurup said:


> What is the new approach and how is it different from the old one ??



It is different in the sense that it would support further development (as in larger and larger SLVs) with relative ease. Cannot elaborate more than that.



genmirajborgza786 said:


> @AhaseebA , will we be stuck at 2500 km only or is there missiles with more range being developed, I mean I can understand why we are not pursuing a 5500 km one , but still we can at least afford to have something more then the 2500 km range , what is the max range being developed @ the moment?



We are currently stuck at 2000km 
However, the max range capability being developed is closer to ~3000km. It is more focused towards better overall design and countering the BMDs, rather than range.

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## genmirajborgza786

AhaseebA said:


> It is different in the sense that it would support further development (as in larger and larger SLVs) with relative ease. Cannot elaborate more than that.
> 
> 
> 
> We are currently stuck at 2000km
> However, the max range capability being developed is closer to ~3000km. It is more focused towards better overall design and countering the BMDs, rather than range.



errr I hate this !... I mean common bro, we re nuclear power & all we have is this damn India thingy I think we should also peruse a more robust power projection capability like the other 8 nuclear power's to make a place for Pakistan as a player @ the world stage, you know like for example Turkey . this other power besides India is seriously limiting our power projection capabilities, I mean just look at the Classic & one of a kind comrades we have in Nepal, Bhutan, BD, Sri Lanka, Myanmar & Maldives  
this seriously sucks !


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## The Deterrent

genmirajborgza786 said:


> errr I hate this !... I mean common bro, we re nuclear power & all we have is this damn India thingy I think we should also peruse a more robust power projection capability like the other 8 nuclear power's to make a place for Pakistan as a player @ the world stage, you know like for example Turkey . this other power besides India is seriously limiting our power projection capabilities, I mean just look at the Classic & one of a kind comrades we have in Nepal, Bhutan, BD, Sri Lanka, Myanmar & Maldives
> this seriously sucks !



The other powers have far larger economies to support their weapons programmes for power projection, so economy should be our priority at the moment.

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## The SC

Mani2020 said:


> We didn't had it either when we were striving for becoming a nuclear power but in the end we made it .secondly every missile has a different role as they have different ranges and payload capability
> 
> 
> 
> Ghauri is a liquid fuel missile and Shaheen is a solid fuel missile and both have their own characteristics which distinguish them .i don't see any logic for scrapping one because of other ,instead they will go side by side
> 
> 
> 
> As i told you before we also didn't have money when we became nuclear power and when we tested the range of missiles currently serving us
> 
> International pressure was also there when we were on the verge of a nuclear explosion ,even we suffered from embargoes at that time when we were solely dependent on west .we didn't stop then when we were dependent on west so why would we stop now when we are no more dependent on them atleast not the way like we were in 90's. we are having JV's with China and shifting to China also our local industry is in good shape with the production of Al-Khalid,jf-17 etc


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## The SC

orangzaib said:


> I am so amazed and surprised at the lack of knowledge being presented in certain posts like this one. 'American is being brought down to its knees'.......?? REALLY???? That's some serious big words son!!! and without a clue of the reality. It'll be nice to read up on American military, foreign policy, American interests, economy, etc. You'll get an answer that way.
> 
> With all the corruption and bad governance, with bankruptcy looming on the horizon every year for the past many years, with terrorism killing thousands of people every year, with businessmen moving to America and other foreign and eastern countries......I can still NOT say that Pakistan is going down on its knees. It still runs somehow in every aspects. Although poor but it still runs!!!
> 
> How could you POSSIBLY say that about the world's largest economy, extremely stable country and political environment for business and jobs, superb financial growth, the most modern, the strongest and the state of the art military...???? A country that can fight about seven consecutive wars if it really has to??? Unbelievable!!! the truth is, American doesn't want to and doesn't need to stay in Afghanistan with full force. There will ALWAYS be presence there, primarily to monitor the terrorist activity by Al-Qaeda, etc and to keep things in check and monitored about the Chinese and the Iranians. That would be done through the equipment and personnel that will remain behind in Afghanistan. There is enough electronic equipment and infrastructure to do the job with far less people. Why keep a full force there when they may not have enough to do there anymore??
> How does reduction in forces make 'America bending down on its knees'?? You guys have some CRAZY thoughts and the post just sounds silly, no offense. It will be nice if you make comments that are somewhat realistic.



The main thing to retain from your post is that the US invasion of Afghanistan had as a primary objective, the monitoring of Iran and China, while the AlQaeda was the main scapegoat, which can be confirmed by the US support of it elsewhere in the World.



orangzaib said:


> I'd highly recommend re-read your post and act a bit mature before making silly statements. You guys are very emotional and close minded and use these big terms for no valid reason. "A super power is being defeated"?? REALLY?
> Here's the real view (and it'll hurt a little, sorry): Business finished. Al-Qaeda dismantled to a point where it poses little to no threat to the US and its allies. US bases are and will be in Afghanistan for strategic purposes.
> That means keeping an eye on China and Iran and even Russia and other neighbors, the US military's ability to quickly conduct strikes in the region and control events as they want to due to assets that will remain in Afghanistan. After all this, it doesn't make sense to keep 100k troops when you have complete superiority in responding to any emerging threat!!
> 100K troops cause us to spend hundreds of billions and at this point, it may be a waste in the US government's eyes. When you can kill enemies with one short flight using a couple of A-10's or F-16's, why have thousands of troops sitting around? The US never went in with the idea to 'capture' Afghanistan. The purpose was to dismantle Al-Qaeda and kill OBL.


The last sentence does not hold to facts and logic.
The main thing the US has achieved is the killings of 100 of thousands of civilians (and almost a million in Iraq), mostly for the strategic reason of monitoring Iran, Russia and China. This US strategy is not guaranteed either; as soon as the US pulls its troops out of Afghanistan, no one can guarantee the safety of these installation.


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## Viper0011.

The SC said:


> The main thing to retain from your post is that the US invasion of Afghanistan had as a primary objective, the monitoring of Iran and China/
> 
> Mostly for the strategic reason of monitoring Iran, Russia and China



You are incorrect in both.
1) The Iraq war was a lot more than just watching over Iran. Whether the WMD's existed or not, that was the main reason to go in there at the scale we did. Why do we need to attack a country when we have basis in Qatar, Dubai, many, many ships in the oceans like 20 minutes flight from Iraq and Iran??? You've got to think a bit more mature than this.....

2) We are in multiple stats next to Russia and we can monitor everything. We were their main and only foes for over 5 decades. You think we weren't watching them? So this argument of yours doesn't hold true. Iran is being watched from three sides, not sure why Afghanistan would bring such massive scale military of watch a small country with almost no credible military and 40 year old jets.

3) Afghanistan was because we got ATTACKED!!! And if we hadn't stepped in, these terrorist which were in hundreds of thousands in numbers back then, would've tried to attack us again else where. Then, they'd march up to Pakistan to gain access to the nukes and then to India and everywhere else. You'd be stupid to let such a grave threat to the world peace march by. If your argument is that this won't happen, you are mistaken. The Headquarters of Pakistan Army got attacked, their ports, many other military installation got attacked....their nuke facilities would be attacked if the force of the terrorists had remained the same and increased if there was no 911. 911 was a horrible day for the American public, but it also caused the Afghan war which then destroyed AQ in smaller chunks, reducing its capability to spread terrorism worldwide. The food and fuel for these ideology based terrorists is power and more power. Whenever you go nuts on religion and nationalism (Hitler), you'll end up wanting more force and will threaten a LOT of innocent people. Taliban seeking nukes by now, if there was no 911 specifically was the next step. Some idiot who has the ability to blow himself up, can also carry out a dirty attack at a larger scale causing a lot of civilians to die. Take a look at Karachi airport attack, attacks on schools, markets, etc, etc in Pakistan, Africa, and other places. You have got to understand that humanity doesn't need AQ and terrorism


----------



## The SC

orangzaib said:


> You are incorrect in both.
> 1) The Iraq war was a lot more than just watching over Iran. Whether the WMD's existed or not, that was the main reason to go in there at the scale we did. Why do we need to attack a country when we have basis in Qatar, Dubai, many, many ships in the oceans like 20 minutes flight from Iraq and Iran??? You've got to think a bit more mature than this.....
> 
> 2) We are in multiple stats next to Russia and we can monitor everything. We were their main and only foes for over 5 decades. You think we weren't watching them? So this argument of yours doesn't hold true. Iran is being watched from three sides, not sure why Afghanistan would bring such massive scale military of watch a small country with almost no credible military and 40 year old jets.
> 
> 3) Afghanistan was because we got ATTACKED!!! And if we hadn't stepped in, these terrorist which were in hundreds of thousands in numbers back then, would've tried to attack us again else where. Then, they'd march up to Pakistan to gain access to the nukes and then to India and everywhere else. You'd be stupid to let such a grave threat to the world peace march by. If your argument is that this won't happen, you are mistaken. The Headquarters of Pakistan Army got attacked, their ports, many other military installation got attacked....their nuke facilities would be attacked if the force of the terrorists had remained the same and increased if there was no 911. 911 was a horrible day for the American public, but it also caused the Afghan war which then destroyed AQ in smaller chunks, reducing its capability to spread terrorism worldwide. The food and fuel for these ideology based terrorists is power and more power. Whenever you go nuts on religion and nationalism (Hitler), you'll end up wanting more force and will threaten a LOT of innocent people. Taliban seeking nukes by now, if there was no 911 specifically was the next step. Some idiot who has the ability to blow himself up, can also carry out a dirty attack at a larger scale causing a lot of civilians to die. Take a look at Karachi airport attack, attacks on schools, markets, etc, etc in Pakistan, Africa, and other places. You have got to understand that humanity doesn't need AQ and terrorism



Sorry buddy, but just the fact that the 9/11 affair has been proven to be a Mossad operation assisted by some US entities, makes all your claims false and flawed. it explains all the rest of your thoughts. What you are calling incorrect came from your own posts, that is why i have highlighted them because they were incorrect.
How can one explain why taliban, would want to attack the US after the friendship and help they have gotten to oust the Russians?
And how is the sat up invasion of Kuwait had to do with Iran?
You are avoiding by scheme or by ignorance the real reasons behind the Invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan, although you should know that the reasons have to do with the control of natural resources and their routes on top of the so called security of Usrael.
Iran is no small country, I am pretty sure it can inflict some very serious damage (unacceptable for the US) to the US forces in the area, besides making the conflict have international unacceptable ramifications too. Eventhough it has a 40 years old air force which has be overhauled and upgraded to the latest tech. And what about its state of the the art air defenses and missiles with pinpoint accuracy?
Pakistan false internal conflict has been designed in the same process of the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, it was a policy engulfing the whole area to suit the security needs of USrael and India who have been conspiring for this since the 90's.
Your post seems to flow directly from some zionist propaganda you have been bombarded with for too long.


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## M.harishussain

What we have now is the best we have so we really don't bother what is we have or what is not


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## DANGER-ZONE

iforce said:


> Tell me does the Ghauri Program has been dismantelled??? I think PA is committed with Shaheen Series and new missiles from NESCOM.



Nishan yarr NESCOM ke jan chor de bhai


----------



## Malghani



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## Zarvan

@Aeronaut when we should expect the test


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## AUz

Zarvan said:


> @Aeronaut when we should expect the test



According to an insider, not before 2017.


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## Zarvan

AUz said:


> According to an insider, not before 2017.


Dam that is too late is it true @Aeronaut


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## Kompromat

@Zarvan

Testing missiles with extended strike range do come with complex geopolitical consequences. Once powerful countries know that you have the capability to strike them, they start calculating that into their threat calculus, which also impacts diplomatic standing and state of relations.

These days the delivery systems are modular. Each sub system can be deemed fit for service after a number of mathematical and lab simulations. Such proceedures also help in determining the projected performance of a complete vehicle.

Having said this, the decision to test fire an actual missile is obviously critical to study the vehicles performance parameters in the face of theoratically simulated projections. 

As i noted above that such a vehicle will require a suitable geopolitical climate to be tested, it is henceforth more than likely that Pakistan will test a Space Launch Vehicle instead of a missile, because it can almost achieve the same capability validation objectives without dire geopolitical consequences.

Best Regards.

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## HRK

@Chak Bamu visit this thread .....


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## Faizan.itec

When America come in range of our Missiles?


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## dilpakistani

Faizan.itec said:


> When America come in range of our Missiles?


Never .... Our nuclear doctrine at this moment can't afford international ambitions. I believe that too much is compromised in past 5-4 years... there is a huge presence of foreign hostile intelligence entities in our country who are sparing no effort to track down our political and military whispers of secrets. So as soon as we are focused with all our energy on regional level we are allowed to have this capability ... I am not even sure how much of it we can even use if it comes down to pressing the button


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## The SC



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## Burhan Wani

Last Hope said:


> It has been disclosed, and is under development.
> Its is a IRBM, range *5000-5500 KM*, and nuclear warhead capable of carrying *2200*KG
> 
> I havent got anyfurther information, but I _guess_ only 15-25 would be made, and it would be tested in early 2012.
> 
> *Tipu ICBM*, whose range is is *7500-8500KM* and capable of carrying nuclear warhead downto *4500KG* is also under development so is *Ghauri III IRBM*, range *4000-45000KM* and also nuclear warhead downto *1800KG*
> 
> Tipu would be developed until mid 2014 and Ghauri III can be expected next year.
> 
> _
> (These dates are my personal guess)_


I guess Guari 3 project was cancelled. Isn't it?


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## rockstar08

closed project ... close thread


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Shaheen 3 , looking at its projected distance , 5000km + , this is a suitable missile to launch a Sattelite into orbit 
Perhaps a nano sattelite ? 

Why does SPARCO not use this platform for investigation rather then , see the missiles tests done in Oceans


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## Viper0011.

Faizan.itec said:


> When America come in range of our Missiles?



Why would you want to step on a mine zone that doesn't end??? Let's continue with the conversation and ignore your comment. I think Aeronaut already talked about geopilitical issues. Why would you start this naive argument?

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## krash

rockstar08 said:


> closed project ... close thread



Kindly provide your super-insider source that told you the project was closed, please do, pretty pretty please.


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## Golden Eagle 007

The SC said:


>


which one is the last big one ?


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## genmirajborgza786

Golden Eagle 007 said:


> which one is the last big one ?


shaheen 3 if I am not wrong, the two notam's which got cancelled is rumoured to be of shaheen lll


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## rockstar08

krash said:


> Kindly provide your super-insider source that told you the project was closed, please do, pretty pretty please.



you dont need a insider source to tell that , have a look around PDF and you will know ..


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## krash

rockstar08 said:


> you dont need a insider source to tell that , have a look around PDF and you will know ..



Bravo, thank you for spreading misinformation just on your whims.


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## rockstar08

krash said:


> Bravo, thank you for spreading misinformation just on your whims.



dude , i am not forcing you to believe me , if we see a Shaheen 3 test , than we will talk , until than , no test means no project ....


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## krash

rockstar08 said:


> dude , i am not forcing you to believe me , if we see a Shaheen 3 test , than we will talk , until than , no test means no project ....



There's as reason why we ask everyone to post with sources/proof. Presenting personal opinion as fact spreads misinformation and is against the policy of this forum. You even suggested to close the thread in result of your opinion. Tired of members here dreaming up stuff and claiming it to be true.

Anyway, hope I conveyed my point clearly enough.


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## ssethii

@The Deterrent 
What happened to the 2nd launch which was supposedly of Shaheen 3.


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## shaheenmissile

ssethii said:


> @The Deterrent
> What happened to the 2nd launch which was supposedly of Shaheen 3.


Loadshedding............

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## Yasir 99

India has tested Agni iii but we are advanced in strategic missile capability than India alhamdulillaah .secondly shaheen iii can carry plutonium warheads.


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## kurup

Yasir 99 said:


> India has tested Agni iii but we are advanced in strategic missile capability than India alhamdulillaah .secondly shaheen iii can carry plutonium warheads.



Except in case of subsonic cruise missile , you are not ahead of us in any other field of missile technology .


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## AUz

kurup said:


> Except in case of subsonic cruise missile , you are not ahead of us in any other field of missile technology .



Air Launched Cruise Missile as well.

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## jarves

AUz said:


> Air Launched Cruise Missile as well.


We are getting there.

HAL hands over BrahMos Missile integrated Su-30 to IAF

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## The Deterrent

http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20150305SEC 059.txt

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## AUz

The Deterrent said:


> View attachment 200059
> 
> 
> http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20150305SEC 059.txt
> 
> View attachment 200065



Shaheen-III or Shaheen-II??

Any news you can gives us?


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## shaheenmissile

The Deterrent said:


> View attachment 200059
> 
> 
> http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20150305SEC 059.txt
> 
> View attachment 200065


Good find.
Hopefully they will fire it this time,whatever this is.


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## HRK

shaheenmissile said:


> Good find.
> Hopefully they will fire it this time,whatever this is.



expect some more good news in this month

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## AUz

HRK said:


> expect some more good news in this month



Any hint? What news?

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## HRK

AUz said:


> Any hint? What news?



not related to Shaheen or blastic missile, navy is busy with some exercises in which they are suppose to carry out surface to air missile exercise as well...

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## rockstar08

The Deterrent said:


> View attachment 200059
> 
> 
> http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20150305SEC 059.txt
> 
> View attachment 200065



is this a new test ??


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## Zarvan

The Deterrent said:


> View attachment 200059
> 
> 
> http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20150305SEC 059.txt
> 
> View attachment 200065


So I think finally we have decided it to test Shaheen III and under Raheel Shareef it would be tested


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## shaheenmissile

rockstar08 said:


> is this a new test ??


There is nothing in Pakistan's arsenal which can reach 692 Km Altitude







Just hope it gets fired this time. Shouldn't be a troll NOTAM like November


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## AUz

shaheenmissile said:


> There is nothing in Pakistan's arsenal which can reach 692 Km Altitude
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just hope it gets fired this time. Shouldn't be a troll NOTAM like November



@The Deterrent 692km apogee correlates to very long ranges (5,000km to 6,000km)....Whats the catch?

The most long range ICBMs...with 13000km+ range....have apogees of 1,200km etc. So going by this, if Pakistan has capacity to throw something 692km above the ground level, can we assume that Pakistan has weapons with ranges of 5500km?

@shaheenmissile What say?

@Hyperion janab apki expertize appreciate ki jayen gi yahan...

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## Zarvan

AUz said:


> @The Deterrent 692km apogee correlates to very long ranges (5,000km to 6,000km)....Whats the catch?
> 
> The most long range ICBMs...with 13000km+ range....have apogees of 1,200km etc. So going by this, if Pakistan has capacity to throw something 692km above the ground level, can we assume that Pakistan has weapons with ranges of 5500km?
> 
> @shaheenmissile What say?
> 
> @Hyperion janab apki expertize appreciate ki jayen gi yahan...


Pakistan has ICBMs and although I don't trust ministers but statement by Rana Tanveer during IDEX was not his he said this on some one else orders


----------



## AUz

Zarvan said:


> Pakistan has ICBMs and although I don't trust ministers but statement by Rana Tanveer during IDEX was not his he said this on some one else orders



We might have the capacity to build an ICBM in next ten years, but certainly we do not have any "ICBMs" in our arsenal.

Fazool ki batein krna chor day yar.....you are a senior member


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## Zarvan

AUz said:


> We might have the capacity to build an ICBM in next ten years, but certainly we do not have any "ICBMs" in our arsenal.
> 
> Fazool ki batein krna chor day yar.....you are a senior member


Sir we are working on ICBM we never stopped working on them and these are not fazool ki baat we achieved nuclear capability in 1984 but tested in 1998 we are working on ICBM that is for sure


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## Bratva

The Deterrent said:


> View attachment 200059
> 
> 
> http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20150305SEC 059.txt
> 
> View attachment 200065



@RAMPAGE


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## SipahSalar

Pakistan does not have ICBMs. We have no need for them. I doubt anyone is even working on them. If we ever need longer reach, submarine launched cruise missiles will be the way to go as the subs can sneak in close to the target.


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## Zarvan

SipahSalar said:


> Pakistan does not have ICBMs. We have no need for them. I doubt anyone is even working on them. If we ever need longer reach, submarine launched cruise missiles will be the way to go as the subs can sneak in close to the target.


We are working on them


----------



## SipahSalar

Zarvan said:


> We are working on them


Ok, your source?


----------



## farhan_9909

We need a new missile in the range of 3000-3500km in our inventory

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## rockstar08

farhan_9909 said:


> We need a new missile in the range of 3000-3500km in our inventory



I agree


----------



## shaheenmissile

AUz said:


> @The Deterrent 692km apogee correlates to very long ranges (5,000km to 6,000km)....Whats the catch?
> 
> The most long range ICBMs...with 13000km+ range....have apogees of 1,200km etc. So going by this, if Pakistan has capacity to throw something 692km above the ground level, can we assume that Pakistan has weapons with ranges of 5500km?
> 
> @shaheenmissile What say?
> 
> @Hyperion janab apki expertize appreciate ki jayen gi yahan...


This missile if gets fired , will be fired in something called Lofted trajectory which is the safest form of Missile path.
But a Missile on Lofted trajectory attaining a range of 2900 Km , can go further in minimun energy trajectory


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## Jango

@The Deterrent aik shurli chor kar bhag gaya hai haha!!!

I see what you did there sir jee!

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## The Deterrent

AUz said:


> Shaheen-III or Shaheen-II??
> 
> Any news you can gives us?


Not Shaheen-II.



rockstar08 said:


> is this a new test ??


Definitely.



Zarvan said:


> So I think finally we have decided it to test Shaheen III and under Raheel Shareef it would be tested


This has nothing to do with the COAS, past or present.



AUz said:


> @The Deterrent 692km apogee correlates to very long ranges (5,000km to 6,000km)....Whats the catch?
> 
> The most long range ICBMs...with 13000km+ range....have apogees of 1,200km etc. So going by this, if Pakistan has capacity to throw something 692km above the ground level, can we assume that Pakistan has weapons with ranges of 5500km?
> 
> @shaheenmissile What say?
> 
> @Hyperion janab apki expertize appreciate ki jayen gi yahan...


There isn't any catch. Pakistani technology is quite behind the G-5 in this field, we probably haven't gone for depressed trajectories yet. The other ICBMs/SLBMs have quite depressed trajectories, so there isn't any comparison.



Jango said:


> @The Deterrent aik shurli chor kar bhag gaya hai haha!!!
> 
> I see what you did there sir jee!


I'm right here _sir jee_!

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## Jango

The Deterrent said:


> I'm right here _sir jee_!



I know sir jee...remember we had a conversation regarding this about a month or so back!


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## shaheenmissile

The Deterrent said:


> Not Shaheen-II.
> 
> 
> Definitely.
> 
> 
> This has nothing to do with the COAS, past or present.
> 
> 
> There isn't any catch. Pakistani technology is quite behind the G-5 in this field, we probably haven't gone for depressed trajectories yet. The other ICBMs/SLBMs have quite depressed trajectories, so there isn't any comparison.
> 
> 
> I'm right here _sir jee_!


You can clearly see Shaheen 1-A rolling and going into depressed trajectory instead of going straight up for lofted.


----------



## The Deterrent

shaheenmissile said:


> You can clearly see Shaheen 1-A rolling and going into depressed trajectory instead of going straight up for lofted.


I was referring to the IRBM class missiles.


----------



## rockstar08

The Deterrent said:


> I was referring to the IRBM class missiles.



so can we expect the range will be greater than Shaheen II ?
is this just a random test or some sort of reply to some enemy Test ?


----------



## Bratva

Jango said:


> I know sir jee...remember we had a conversation regarding this about a month or so back!



Sirjee Is dafa confirm hai phir ?


----------



## Jango

Bratva said:


> Sirjee Is dafa confirm hai phir ?



Mainay to bara arsa pehlay hi confirm kar lia tha magr deterrent bhai jan nay rok lia tha.

Ab dekho kia hota hai.

It would be interesting if an announcement is made...


----------



## shaheenmissile

Well. The NOTAM comes into force at 7 am GMT. So about 10 hours remain. Lets see.


----------



## Bratva

Jango said:


> Mainay to bara arsa pehlay hi confirm kar lia tha magr deterrent bhai jan nay rok lia tha.
> 
> Ab dekho kia hota hai.
> 
> It would be interesting if an announcement is made...



Haha, Is dafa phr, " Meri kishti waha doobi jaha pani kam tha" na ho jaye :p


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## Jango

Bratva said:


> Haha, Is dafa phr, " Meri kishti waha doobi jaha pani kam tha" na ho jaye :p



Haha who knows...let's just wait and see i guess!

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## Bratva

shaheenmissile said:


> Well. The NOTAM comes into force at 7 am GMT. So about 10 hours remain. Lets see.



There are two dates. As per last test firings, Shaheen II was fired on second date. So my guess is if something is going to happen, it would occur on 10th march


----------



## shaheenmissile

Bratva said:


> Haha, Is dafa phr, " Meri kishti waha doobi jaha pani kam tha" na ho jaye :p


Shakal Achii naa hou tou kam az kam baat achi kertay hain

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## Dr. Strangelove

no no not again last time all of us waited like idiots nothing happened


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## Zarvan

Dr. Stranglove said:


> no no not again last time all of us waited like idiots nothing happened


Yes day has arrived it will happen today or tomorrow if nothing happens I am going after @The Detterent


----------



## genmirajborgza786

the test could happen today according to the notam


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## Dr. Strangelove

genmirajborgza786 said:


> the test could happen today according to the Notam


the test could have happened in october or november according to the previous notams


----------



## Zarvan

genmirajborgza786 said:


> the test could happen today according to the Notam


Well let see but the weather is not good at all


----------



## The Deterrent

rockstar08 said:


> so can we expect the range will be greater than Shaheen II ?


Indeed.


> is this just a random test or some sort of reply to some enemy Test ?


a SCHEDULED test.

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## Zarvan

The Deterrent said:


> Indeed.
> 
> a SCHEDULED test.


If this time it doesn't happen you need to run Mr 

No news of Missile test yet let see if it happens in future or not


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## Zohaib Irfan

hope this time everything will be ok..

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## Zarvan

The Deterrent said:


> Indeed.
> 
> a SCHEDULED test.


Hey @The Deterrent its 4 to 7 evening or morning ?


----------



## v9s

haha...no test. 

we have one more day for a possible test.


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## Zarvan

v9s said:


> haha...no test.
> 
> we have one more day for a possible test.


I think the time is of evening not morning


----------



## Windjammer

v9s said:


> haha...no test.
> 
> we have one more day for a possible test.





Zarvan said:


> I think the time is of evening not morning


Although two dates were given by the NOTAMS and the notice was for morning, however last time the NOTAM was issued, there was a naval exercise taking place in the area. !!


----------



## HRK

Windjammer said:


> Although two dates were given by the NOTAMS and the notice was for morning, *however last time the NOTAM was issued, there was a naval exercise taking place in the area.* !!


----------



## Zarvan

HRK said:


> View attachment 200845
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 200846


@The Deterrent What you have to say about it ?


----------



## The Deterrent

Zarvan said:


> Hey @The Deterrent its 4 to 7 evening or morning ?


Morning..


Zarvan said:


> @The Deterrent What you have to say about it ?


Nothing. These are separate events, wait for it.

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## Black Babur

Shaheen 3 this time?


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## Zarvan

The Deterrent said:


> Morning..
> 
> Nothing. These are separate events, wait for it.


Test done I have started the thread shift to that

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## HRK

Zarvan said:


> @The Deterrent What you have to say about it ?



bhai these two are different NOTAMs posted in context windjammer posted regarding Naval exercise in that area ....


----------



## Devil Soul

Pakistan conducts successful test launch of Shaheen-III missile – The Express Tribune

AsimBajwaISPR @AsimBajwaISPR
Follow
#Pakistan conducts successful test launch of #Shaheen-3 SSM,capable of carrying nuclear,conventional warheads to range of 2750 KMs

11:40 AM - 9 Mar 2015

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## Zarvan

Devil Soul said:


> Pakistan conducts successful test launch of Shaheen-III missile – The Express Tribune
> 
> AsimBajwaISPR @AsimBajwaISPR
> Follow
> #Pakistan conducts successful test launch of #Shaheen-3 SSM,capable of carrying nuclear,conventional warheads to range of 2750 KMs
> 
> 11:40 AM - 9 Mar 2015


How many times same things will be repeated ????


----------



## Devil Soul

Zarvan said:


> How many times same things will be repeated ????


What thing??????


----------



## Zarvan

Devil Soul said:


> What thing??????


The Missile test news you just posted the news again


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## Devil Soul

Zarvan said:


> The Missile test news you just posted the news again


Yeah , what wrong in posting the news???? did i posted it @ wrong thread.....NO i posted the news in the right thread, which is dedicated for Shaheen III news...

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## farhan_9909

Can someone tell me if Shaheen III is two stage or three stage missile?

Can't watch the pictures right now


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## kurup

farhan_9909 said:


> Can someone tell me if Shaheen III is two stage or three stage missile?
> 
> Can't watch the pictures right now



Two stages .

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## RAMPAGE

Bratva said:


> @RAMPAGE


G farmaiay?

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## RAMPAGE

@ the deterrent

Thread delete kar di hai. How was I compromising national security?


----------



## The Deterrent

RAMPAGE said:


> @ the deterrent
> 
> Thread delete kar di hai. How was I compromising national security?


_Hassaas maloomaat pls._
Could be potentially risky for your source.


----------



## RAMPAGE

The Deterrent said:


> _Hassaas maloomaat pls._
> Could be potentially risky for your source.


Oh ok. you know anything about this barq missile?


----------



## The Deterrent

RAMPAGE said:


> Oh ok. you know anything about this barq missile?


No details but obviously based on the Chinese AR-1.


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## Jango

@The Deterrent ...with reference to Rampage's other thread, remember what I told you a couple of weeks or so back? That there was something done before...


----------



## The Deterrent

Jango said:


> @The Deterrent ...with reference to Rampage's other thread, remember what I told you a couple of weeks or so back? That there was something done before...


Negative, there was nothing _done. _I hope you understand now why the previous NOTAM was cancelled at the last moment.

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## Bratva

The Deterrent said:


> Negative, there was nothing _done. _I hope you understand now why the previous NOTAM was cancelled at the last moment.



Any particular reason why Shaheen III test was delayed to march?


----------



## Bilal.

The Deterrent said:


> _Hassaas maloomaat pls._
> Could be potentially risky for your source.



Yaar wohi batien thi jo yahan ho chuki...


----------



## Jango

The Deterrent said:


> Negative, there was nothing _done. _I hope you understand now why the previous NOTAM was cancelled at the last moment.



Yup....that's what I meant.


----------



## Bilal.

The Deterrent said:


> No details but obviously based on the Chinese AR-1.



Based on or is?


----------



## The Deterrent

Bratva said:


> Any particular reason why Shaheen III test was delayed to march?


Technical snags, happen all the time.


Bilal. said:


> Based on or is?


Well it is certainly not a re-painted system, I believe the airframe and propulsion system has been derived from AR-1, but the other systems could be indigenous.

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## HRK

The Deterrent said:


> Well it is certainly not a re-painted system, I believe the airframe and propulsion system has been derived from AR-1, but the other systems could be indigenous.



sort of Joint venture ... ??


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## The Deterrent

HRK said:


> sort of Joint venture ... ??


No, the Chinese are advanced enough in these technologies, we simply don't have the expertise to contribute to any sort of JV.

P.S. continue this discussion in the relevant thread please.

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## RAMPAGE

Bratva said:


> Any particular reason why Shaheen III test was delayed to march?


@The Deterrent

Mere pait mai dard ho rha hai.  jk

About Barq, let me see what I can find out. I'll be able to share it if not classified.



The Deterrent said:


> Technical snags, happen all the time.
> 
> Well it is certainly not a re-painted system, I believe the airframe and propulsion system has been derived from AR-1, but the other systems could be indigenous.


Yar lets not assume. There are too many rumors circulating anyway.

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## farhan_9909

Barq?what is this?


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## shaheenmissile

farhan_9909 said:


> Barq?what is this?


The Missile fired from UAV


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## shaheenmissile

One of the draw backs of Shaheen series was that until shaheen 2 it was still using jet vanes on both first and second stage for steering the missile. The system is cheap and simple but missle loses power as jet vanes interfere with thrust even in nuteral position.
If Pakistan can build thrust vectoring or gimballed exaust,that will be very beneficiant in many ways


----------



## SQ8

The Deterrent said:


> _Hassaas maloomaat pls._
> Could be potentially risky for your source.


Ya Allah, what was said now?


----------



## Bratva

Oscar said:


> Ya Allah, what was said now?



Moulana, You came late to the party. No Hassas halwa for you

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## HRK

انگریز said:


> These are the only available pics of Shaheen-III i could find
> 
> Can anybody compare this with Shaheen 2 and see if there are any changes?
> @Bratva , @The Deterrent , @RAMPAGE , @Manticore



would request to delete the pics as of now ..... BTW one of the improvement is in Warhead section ....


----------



## انگریز

Latest Pictures of Shaheen 3 Missile on Launchpad 











Visual comparison with Shaheen 2

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## Mrc

Looks like same missile to me...only warhead has some thing changed


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## انگریز

Mrc said:


> Looks like same missile to me...only warhead has some thing changed


Shaheen 2 looks a bit wider.

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## Mrc

Whats with the warhead?? Seem to be tip is dettachable... mirv??


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## انگریز

Mrc said:


> Whats with the warhead?? Seem to be tip is dettachable... mirv??


No idea. I read a lot about missiles but never seen something like this


----------



## syedali73

انگریز said:


> Shaheen 2 looks a bit wider.


Spot on. You Sir have a keen eye. Very roughly if we compare the thickness of the missile with the average thickness of the human head, it becomes pretty clear that Shaheen III is significantly wider than Shaheen II.

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## Karl

Slightly extended first stage. Interestingly the 'Shaheen II' (first announced as Shaheen III) tested on Nov 14th 2014 had an increased first stage length. http://isssp.in/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Shaheen-II-Nov_13_2014_Launch_Analysis.pdf Don't see an increase in diameter. The stated diameter of the Shaheen II is ~1.4m . To put this in perspective, Israel's Shavit II has a 1.35m diameter (Jericho III has a larger diameter ~2 - 2.4 m), China's Kuaizhou is 1.34m, Brazil's VLM Nova is 1.35m.


----------



## Thorough Pro

Probably the distance from which the pic was taken. Generally development work is focussed on systems and flight surfaces, height and dia normally don't change with every test. 




syedali73 said:


> Spot on. You Sir have a keen eye. Very roughly if we compare the thickness of the missile with the average thickness of the human head, it becomes pretty clear that Shaheen III is significantly wider than Shaheen II.
> 
> View attachment 217396


----------



## syedali73

Thorough Pro said:


> Probably the distance from which the pic was taken. Generally development work is focussed on systems and flight surfaces, height and dia normally don't change with every test.


This is not every test but testing of a new system (Shaheen 3). Wider body can accommodate more propellant that will result in the increased range of the missile.


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## انگریز

The range was with a very high apogee of 690 Km
I am guessing the range will be greater with lower apogee


----------



## انگریز

Look how the missile trajectory goes flat after about 30 seconds.


----------



## BelligerentPacifist

syedali73 said:


> Spot on. You Sir have a keen eye. Very roughly if we compare the thickness of the missile with the average thickness of the human head, it becomes pretty clear that Shaheen III is significantly wider than Shaheen II.
> 
> [attachment deleted]



Ahem ... p e r s p e c t i v e!

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## Thorough Pro

Wider body will face higher resistance and drag besides that would require all the internals to be redesigned as well, which in my opinion is not an efficient way to add range To increase range of an existing missile the easiest and most efficient way is to either increase the length or add another stage, which separates from the main body after fuel consumption thus reducing weight and drag. 



syedali73 said:


> This is not every test but testing of a new system (Shaheen 3). Wider body can accommodate more propellant that will result in the increased range of the missile.


----------



## BelligerentPacifist

Thorough Pro said:


> Wider body will face higher resistance and drag besides that would require all the internals to be redesigned as well, which in my opinion is not an efficient way to add range To increase range of an existing missile the easiest and most efficient way is to either increase the length or add another stage, which separates from the main body after fuel consumption thus reducing weight and drag.


A different diameter requires redesign, and a small change requires enough reengineering to make your missile a new missile.
Serial staging would only work if the lower stages have enough juice to carry several more tonnes on their heads. It often does, but then you ask yourself the question whether you've added to the range.


----------



## انگریز

BelligerentPacifist said:


> A different diameter requires redesign, and a small change requires enough reengineering to make your missile a new missile.
> Serial staging would only work if the lower stages have enough juice to carry several more tonnes on their heads. It often does, but then you ask yourself the question whether you've added to the range.


Yes...Be it change in dia or change in length,a re-design will be required in both cases.


----------



## Bratva

انگریز said:


> Latest Pictures of Shaheen 3 Missile on Launchpad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Visual comparison with Shaheen 2




@balixd


----------



## Amaa'n

Bratva said:


> @balixd


lol, doesn't look like Hassas malomaat to me, and I know these are not the pics in question ..... your email is what?
bratva@defence.pk??? will send u some pics

@Bratva ----email sent, chk inbox


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## Bratva

@balixd which one ? The gmail one ? because I dont have @Defence.pk mail


----------



## Amaa'n

Bratva said:


> @balixd which one ? The gmail one ? because I dont have @Defence.pk mail


yeah ---- but wait mail is not gone yet----my office net is being plain pain in ***


----------



## Bratva

balixd said:


> yeah ---- but wait mail is not gone yet----my office net is being plain pain in ***



And I will check it once I get home. It's closing time at my office as well


----------



## Cengaver

"Congratulations, dear friends "

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## انگریز

So no explaination of twin cone warhead of Shaheen 3?


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## Arsalan

انگریز said:


> So no explaination of twin cone warhead of Shaheen 3?



No nothing was confirmed officially but as far as i have checked into this matter, it was not MIRV. We are working on one but that was not what was tested. What it is,,, no idea!!! 
Also i doubt that this information will be made public any time soon.


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## Mrc

Why else wud u have a twin cone if you are not going for mirv?


----------



## al_asad_al_mulk

Mrc said:


> Why else wud u have a twin cone if you are not going for mirv?


Sir it is heat shield for missile warhead. Shaheen iii is MARV. You know better then me Shaheen series now using depressed trajectory with high speed so they decided to put additional heat shielding for warhead.

From more of my observation after looking Shaheen III pics i observe that Shaheen III width is same as Shaheen ii but slightly increase in length probably 1.5 to 2 meter thats why some member thinks Shaheen iii is slimmer as compared to Shaheen ii. And i also thinks Shaheen iii range is not less than 3500 Kms but they declared it less because of political (international) reasons. They don't want to panic west.


----------



## al_asad_al_mulk

*Depressed trajectory*
Throw-weight is normally calculated using an optimal ballistic trajectory from one point on the surface of the Earth to another. An optimal trajectory maximizes the total payload (throw-weight) using the available impulse of the missile. By reducing the payload weight, different trajectories can be selected which either extends the nominal range, or decreases the total time in flight. A depressed trajectory is a non-optimal, lower and flatter trajectory which takes less time between launch and impact, but with a lower throw-weight. The primary reasons to choose a depressed trajectory are either to evade anti-ballistic missile systems by reducing the time available to shoot down the attacking vehicle (especially during the vulnerable burn-phase against space-based ABM systems), or in a nuclear first-strike scenario. An alternate, non-military, purpose for a depressed trajectory is in conjunction with the space plane concept with use of air breathing engines which requires the ballistic missile to remain sufficiently low inside the atmosphere for air-breathing engines to function.


----------



## zindapak

انگریز said:


> Look how the missile trajectory goes flat after about 30 seconds.






farhan_9909 said:


> Barq?what is this?


The Missile fired from UAV


----------



## Shahzad Akram

Pakistan doing a good job here


----------



## aliyan

Last Hope said:


> This list isint updated one.
> There is a thread on PDF, that we also are gonna have 'Taimur' ICBM
> 
> Or maybe 'Tipu' and 'Taimur' are the same one?


no tipu is under development and it is named after tipu sultan while taimur was tested before but it was failed and it named after timur the lame


----------



## al_asad_al_mulk

aliyan said:


> no tipu is under development and it is named after tipu sultan while taimur was tested before but it was failed and it named after Taimur the lame


No there is no such missile being under development named Tipu but other two option available Haider & Taimur.
As my best sources Pakistan stops using historical names may be future missile will only be called As Shaheen 4 / 5.
More Taimur missile was actually Ghauri III missile and cancelled.

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## Blue Marlin

Last Hope said:


> It has been disclosed, and is under development.
> Its is a IRBM, range *5000-5500 KM*, and nuclear warhead capable of carrying *2200*KG
> 
> I havent got anyfurther information, but I _guess_ only 15-25 would be made, and it would be tested in early 2012.
> 
> *Tipu ICBM*, whose range is is *7500-8500KM* and capable of carrying nuclear warhead downto *4500KG* is also under development so is *Ghauri III IRBM*, range *4000-45000KM* and also nuclear warhead downto *1800KG*
> 
> Tipu would be developed until mid 2014 and Ghauri III can be expected next year.
> 
> _
> (These dates are my personal guess)_


well the Ghauri III is canceled. also general kidwai said that the shaheen III is the maximum range miss they have as it covers all of india and also the Andaman Islands. from i know and read from janes the shaheen III is a shaheen II thats been stretched with a modified warhead to evade ABM's. i wont be surprised to learn Pakistan does have a icbm. but it not be tested. only when necessary and under very heavy secrecy and stored in tunnels under the mountains.


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## al_asad_al_mulk

@Zarvan Since your are a senior member Kindly explain SIII twin cone and overall SIII to compare with SII



balixd said:


> yeah ---- but wait mail is not gone yet----my office net is being plain pain in ***


we are still waiting for your expert views

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## Blue Marlin

al_asad_al_mulk said:


> @Zarvan Since your are a senior member Kindly explain SIII twin cone and overall SIII to compare with SII
> 
> 
> we are still waiting for your expert views


i think it may be a post separation warhead


----------



## al_asad_al_mulk

@blue marlin i need your expert opinion if you compare picture of S2 and S3 you will notice that S3 is quite lengthy and have larger diameter if so then why it will increase in range only 250 Kms,

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## Blue Marlin

al_asad_al_mulk said:


> @blue marlin i need your expert opinion if you compare picture of S2 and S3 you will notice that S3 is quite lengthy and have larger diameter if so then why it will increase in range only 250 Kms,


in my opinion the s3 is not that much different from the s2. first why it the s3 longer? to simply put it add more propellent .the s2 has a range of 2500km where as the s3 has a range of 2750km, the 250 km difference does not justify designing/releasing a new missile.

as for the extra cone. well we all know Pakistan is more concerned about making the warheads more advanced enough to penetrate indian abm's. rather than making icbm's, as it does not need them yet. so the extra cone would most probable be a third stage.normal warhead follow a trajectory as shown below (ignore the range) look at the trjectory. it like a arc .but this makes abm's easy to identify the warheads target and therefore it can intercept it. much easier.

.






now with a third stage just before the warhead enters the reentry stage the third stage of the missile would change the course of the warhead to the stage that abm's have no idea where the warhead is going to come in therefore increasing the penetration rate and survivability.


you need to understand that Pakistan does not care about having icbm's it cares about survivability/ reliability and accuracy. any when when they decide to develop an icbm they can implement the warhead tech in to the missile.

also to add . the missile is wider to get it at a higher than normal altitude and then it can make a steep and un precedented approach

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## Zarvan

al_asad_al_mulk said:


> @Zarvan Since your are a senior member Kindly explain SIII twin cone and overall SIII to compare with SII
> 
> 
> we are still waiting for your expert views


I am not good at missiles @Donatello and @Oscar and @Horus can help you out


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## al_asad_al_mulk

Zarvan said:


> I am not good at missiles @Donatello and @Oscar and @Horus can help you out


Thanks buddy for replying me anyways @blue marlin gave me a nice detailed reply.

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## Blue Marlin

al_asad_al_mulk said:


> Thanks buddy for replying me anyways @blue marlin gave me a nice detailed reply.


you're welcome

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## RAMPAGE

blue marlin said:


> the s2 has a range of 2500km where as the s3 has a range of 2750km, the 250 km difference does not justify designing/releasing a new missile.


S2's range is around 1600 km. Please do some research on "biconic" RVs because that's what it is.

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## al_asad_al_mulk

RAMPAGE said:


> S2's range is around 1600 km. Please do some research on "biconic" RVs because that's what it is.


What is this biconic" RV. S2 range that we mentioned here publicly announced by ISPR previously.



al_asad_al_mulk said:


> What is this biconic" RV. S2 range that we mentioned here publicly announced by ISPR previously.


Kindly also give me clue why our previously announced missile ranges decreased, Due to depressed trajectory or what ?

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## Shahzad malik



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## Blue Marlin

nice pic! where did you get it from?


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## Shahzad malik

Blue Marlin said:


> nice pic! where did you get it from?


Google image search for Shaheen 3. ..


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## Blue Marlin

Shahzad malik said:


> Google image search for Shaheen 3. ..


fair enough.
anyway where are my manners.
2

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## SSG commandos



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## thesameguy

^^^^ WHERE Is shaheen 3 in the videos?


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## Valorous

is anybody guide us how to upload pictures & videos here


----------



## The Deterrent

*COMING UP NEXT*



> SECURITE
> 
> 071013 UTC DEC 2015
> 
> 
> NAVAREA IX (.) 375/15 (.) PAKISTAN (.) SOMALI BASIN (.)
> CHARTS PAK 57 (INT 751) BA 4071 AND 4705 (.)
> 
> 2. MISSILE FIRING WILL BE CARRIED OUT BETWEEN 0400 TO
> 0700 UTC ON 10 AND 11 DEC 2015 IN AREA BOUNDED BY FOLLOWING
> COORDINATES:
> 
> (A) 25-43.83N 066-19.45E
> (B) 25-16.83N 067-11.36E
> (C) 02-00.31N 054-18.63E
> (D) 02-27.26N 053-30.92E
> 
> SAFETY HIEGHT 578 KM
> 
> 3. SHIPS AND CRAFT ARE TO KEEP WELL CLEAR AND NOT TO ENTER
> ASSIGNED DANGER AREA ON ABOVE SPECIFIED DATES AND TIME (.)
> 
> 4. CANCEL THIS MESSAGE ON 110900 UTC DEC 2015.



http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20151207SEC 375.txt








Most probably 2nd test flight of Shaheen-III (2750 km range, 578 km apogee).

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## Maarkhoor

The Deterrent said:


> *COMING UP NEXT*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20151207SEC 375.txt
> 
> 
> View attachment 277925
> 
> 
> Most probably 2nd test flight of Shaheen-III (2900 km range, 578 km apogee).


Means they increase the range ? or just for safety if the missile overshoot the designated target area?


----------



## The Deterrent

MaarKhoor said:


> Means they increase the range ? or just for safety if the missile overshoot the designated target area?


Yeah most probably there is a safety buffer area between impact point and the edge of restricted air & naval space. So the test range is same for now.
However it should NOT be assumed that 2750 km is the maximum possible range of this system, it might be 3000 km but being under-stated to not threaten our friend in the Middle East.

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## Maarkhoor

The Deterrent said:


> Yeah most probably there is a safety buffer area between impact point and the edge of restricted air & naval space. So the test range is same for now.
> However it should NOT be assumed that 2750 km is the maximum possible range of this system, it might be 3000 km but being under-stated to not threaten our friend in the Middle East.


But most of the middle east already under the range but i think Pakistan tries avoid Israeli propaganda to not mention or test full range.

the assumed diameter and length you can easily estimate the full range which probably 3500 Kms to 4000 kms by using maximum range trajectory .


----------



## AUz

The Deterrent said:


> Yeah most probably there is a safety buffer area between impact point and the edge of restricted air & naval space. So the test range is same for now.
> However it should NOT be assumed that 2750 km is the maximum possible range of this system, it might be 3000 km but being under-stated to not threaten our friend in the Middle East.



That's shouldn't be the case because if you launch Shaheen-III (2750km range) from the Western Balochistan, it can reach Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem, and even in Mediterranean sea---which means that the system already covers entire Israel in terms of range.

So why shouldn't we just test the system to its actual maximum range?


----------



## The Deterrent

AUz said:


> That's shouldn't be the case because if you launch Shaheen-III (2750km range) from the Western Balochistan, it can reach Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem, and even in Mediterranean sea---which means that the system already covers entire Israel in terms of range.
> 
> So why shouldn't we just test the system to its actual maximum range?


There are certain operational constraints in launching from the tip of the western horn of Balochistan. Despite the claim by Lt. Gen. Kidwai, Pakistan can strike Andaman & Nicobar only from the south-eastern tip of Sindh (with 2750 km range)...which is again operationally very difficult.

Testing it at 3000-3200 km would mean that Pakistan has attained the capability to strike from the comfort of its operational mobility space of strategic weapons in the south, anywhere in Balochistan.

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## rockstar08

The Deterrent said:


> There are certain operational constraints in launching from the tip of the western horn of Balochistan. Despite the claim by Lt. Gen. Kidwai, Pakistan can strike Andaman & Nicobar only from the south-eastern tip of Sindh (with 2750 km range)...which is again operationally very difficult.
> 
> Testing it at 3000-3200 km would mean that Pakistan has attained the capability to strike from the comfort of its operational mobility space of strategic weapons in the south, anywhere in Balochistan.



by reducing the Payload , we can increase the Range right ? 
so technically if we say that with less payload S3 can reach to far end's of ME .. so its not wrong right ?


----------



## Maarkhoor

graphican said:


> urine drinkers


Bro that was unnecessary, they will attack you on the same way and thread derailed from the original topic.


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## The Deterrent

rockstar08 said:


> by reducing the Payload , we can increase the Range right ?
> so technically if we say that with less payload S3 can reach to far end's of ME .. so its not wrong right ?


It doesn't works like that. Warheads and re-entry vehicles are of standard and fixed specifications. They cannot be modified at anybody's wish. Changing any parameter of this magnitude will result in a new variant of the missile, requiring higher than expected R&D.

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## rockstar08

The Deterrent said:


> It doesn't works like that. Warheads and re-entry vehicles are of standard and fixed specifications. They cannot be modified at anybody's wish. Changing any parameter of this magnitude will result in a new variant of the missile, requiring higher than expected R&D.



thanks , i learn something new today 
appreciated ..


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

They should have put a Go Pro camera on head of missile for nice view

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## Maarkhoor

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> They should have put a Go Pro camera on head of missile for nice view



R u serious, on mach 6 or 7 which camera can record + 300 to 400 celsius temp

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## django

MaarKhoor said:


> R u serious, on mach 6 or 7 which camera can record + 300 to 400 celsius temp


good point @MaarKhoor some folks dont seem to have a clue on the current limits of metallurgy.

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## ZAC1

if 2750 km is max limit then we should wait to see a much greater version of shaheen after 1 year.i am sure our scientists are working on it.Hope that day comes soon


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## AUz

ZAC1 said:


> if 2750 km is max limit then we should wait to see a much greater version of shaheen after 1 year.i am sure our scientists are working on it.Hope that day comes soon



Don't expect any increase in range in next 15 years. Its official. No significant increase in range for next 15 years.


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## ZAC1

i dont think they are going to stick with 2750 km range we need ease in hitting nicobar islands so 3300km atleast they will obtain


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## barbarosa

According to my study these posts of PDF the Indian members are exceed from the limits of rule regulation. It is a good for us to study the mindset of those people who,s stories were written in the history.Now we observed them ourselves.We become to know the history was true.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pretty surprising that the base is not cleared up after 2-3 days


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

MaarKhoor said:


> R u serious, on mach 6 or 7 which camera can record + 300 to 400 celsius temp



Only real Pros can absorb the heat


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## rahi2357

Hi guys . Is there any plan to make a satellite launch vehicle out of Shaheen III ? I am sure it's possible to make the SLV version capable of launching a 20 to 100 kg micro/mini satellite into low earth orbit .


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## Maarkhoor

rahi2357 said:


> Hi guys . Is there any plan to make a satellite launch vehicle out of Shaheen III ? I am sure it's possible to make the SLV version capable of launching a 20 to 100 kg micro/mini satellite into low earth orbit .


I believe solid fueled rockets not ideal for launching satellite, probably Ghauri will serves it better.
@The Deterrent 
Can explain you further.

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## rahi2357

MaarKhoor said:


> I believe solid fueled rockets not ideal for launching satellite.


Generally yes , But did you know that the first two stages of the Shavit SLV were that of the Jericho II missile ?
And The Start-1 launch vehicle is derived from the Topol ICBM. Both Jericho and Topol are Solid fueled rockets .
Start-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tir & Mehr launchers are possibly solid rockets that have been developed on the base of the Sejil missile .
Tir & Mehr, Gallery

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## tommytrant20

new IRBM missile looks very similar to ballistic missiles SS-20 RSD-10 Pioneer of the Soviet Union was to retire in 1988. The SS-20 is the IRBM missile developed by the Soviet Union, has a range shoot around 5.000km.SS-20 gives the Soviet ability to disable tactical nuclear forces of NATO one fairly easily. After the SS-20 is deployed, NATO had to rush to deploy Pershing-II missiles, Tomahawk to cope. In the course of operation 654 deployed missiles were built.


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## Cool_Soldier

Yes due to world pressure, Pakistan might not do any long range missile experiments above 4000 km.But any further experiment of up 3500 can not be rolled out.
But obviously, Lab experiments will continue regarding range and accuracy issues.
Pakistan is further focusing Cruise missile technology that gives country edge against ABM.


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## PDF

With recent developments in ICBM in North Korea, Pakistan also needs to proceed in this matter to develop these technologies to avoid ABM systems.
Of course this cannot be achieved due to international pressure but we can find a way out.
With improving economy, we can spend money in these projects along with developing satellites with modern and advance technology.


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## bidonv

The capabilities of the Missile are impressive...................

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## Cool_Soldier

Any news about upcoming new test before Pakistan Day?
Hope to see something about medium range air defence system soon.


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## tommytrant20

North Korea has 12,000 km conversation missile arms race will also further stress that view


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## Cool_Soldier

Well, our 4000 plus range missile can put many nations in mental disorder.


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## tommytrant20

Cool_Soldier said:


> Well, our 4000 plus range missile can put many nations in mental disorder.


India and China will not like this.
Chinese put more long-range missiles pointed at the East Sea to the north east south west Asia


----------



## PWFI

bidonv said:


> The capabilities of the Missile are impressive...................


Tahia El Djzaiire


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## omega supremme

@The Deterrent The ranges mentioned in this video are they accurate


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## The Deterrent

omega supremme said:


> @The Deterrent The ranges mentioned in this video, are they accurate?


No. Its a youtube fanboy video, what do you expect?

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## omega supremme

@The Deterrent 
It's from a Pakistani news channel *ARY* that why I questioned it's authenticity and asked you


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009



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## fatman17

Industry
*Pakistan's new Shaheen-III MRBM uses Chinese transporter, says source*
*Richard D Fisher Jr, Washington DC* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
29 June 2016






Pakistan's new Shaheen-III medium-range missile uses a Chinese 16x16 transporter erector launcher, according to an Indian source. Source: Via DailyPakistan.com


Pakistan's new Shaheen-III medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) is carried by a Chinese-made 16-wheel transporter erector launcher (TEL), an Indian government source told _IHS Jane's_ on condition of anonymity.

The Indian source noted that Pakistan began negotiations in 2012 with the China Precision Machinery Import-Export Corporation (CPMIEC), which resulted in the export of "two 16x16 WS-21200s for use as TELs for Shaheen-III missiles".

Pakistan is believed to have taken delivery of the TELs at the end of February or in early March 2016. The source also said that Pakistan's National Engineering and Scientific Commission has set up an assembly line at the Punjab-based National Development Complex to assemble TELs for Pakistani missiles.

The WS-21200 - a previously unreported designation - is manufactured by the Hubei Sanjiang Space Wanshan Special Vehicle Co of the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC).

China provided WS-51200 TELs to North Korea in 2011, the Indian source stated. Six of these vehicles currently carry North Korea's KN-08 and KN-14 intercontinental ballistic missiles. "There is no doubt China is involved in the proliferation of missile technology," said the Indian official.

The Shaheen-III's WS-21200 TEL and the WS-51200 used by North Korea have much in common, including the same headlight and direction indicator patterns. One main difference, however, is that the WS-21200 uses a forward-tilting windshield glass structure not used by the WS-51200.

However, this glass structure is used by the 8-wheel TEL cab of Pakistan's Hatf 9 (also known as Nasr) 60 km-range tactical nuclear missile, which is virtually the same as the TEL cab of China's DF-11A short-range ballistic missile made by CASIC.

Revealed to the public for the first time during Pakistan's military parade on 23 March, the Shaheen-III - a surface-to-surface, land-based ballistic missile - is allegedly capable of carrying a nuclear or conventional warhead to a range of 2,750 km.


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## Nigel Farrage

And India uses Swedish

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Dear PK friends, your BM development is quite remarkable. And the deterent value of your Full Spectrum Deterence is highly credible.

Great achievement.

But what are the developments of your BMD? Is there some R&D going on? Are you looking to China for collaborations?

Without a credible BMD would you not be exposed to eastern threat?

Any update/ feedback is welcome.

Thank you.


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## Arsalan

Sinopakfriend said:


> Dear PK friends, your BM development is quite remarkable. And the deterent value of your Full Spectrum Deterence is highly credible.
> 
> Great achievement.
> 
> But what are the developments of your BMD? Is there some R&D going on? Are you looking to China for collaborations?
> 
> Without a credible BMD would you not be exposed to eastern threat?
> 
> Any update/ feedback is welcome.
> 
> Thank you.


Unfortunately this is one of those fields where we really never focused. A huge negligence i would say. Considering that we are making the main stay/back bone of all other arms of military like the army's armored corps use home made Al Zarar and Al Khalid as main tanks, the navy uses home build F22p, the air force is rapidly inducting home gorwn JF17s, there is nothing to show in SAM and BMD. We have been saying this for years now that there is a serious need of real development work in Surface to air missile section, a strong land based air defense will go a long way in protecting our air space and also can be used on Naval platforms. Frankly, we never really considered buying such sophisticated systems let alone working on one at home. I think it is about time that we chose some good SAM systems in all different categories and start slow by maintenance and manufacturing in Pakistan. One filed we seriously lack in.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Arsalan said:


> Unfortunately this is one of those fields where we really never focused. A huge negligence i would say. Considering that we are making the main stay/back bone of all other arms of military like the army's armored corps use home made Al Zarar and Al Khalid as main tanks, the navy uses home build F22p, the air force is rapidly inducting home gorwn JF17s, there is nothing to show in SAM and BMD. We have been saying this for years now that there is a serious need of real development work in Surface to air missile section, a strong land based air defense will go a long way in protecting our air space and also can be used on Naval platforms. Frankly, we never really considered buying such sophisticated systems let alone working on one at home. I think it is about time that we chose some good SAM systems in all different categories and start slow by maintenance and manufacturing in Pakistan. One filed we seriously lack in.



Dear Arsalan, thank you for your candid feedback.

This is then a strategic imperative to have robust ADS & BMDS. 

You are right, no need to invent the wheel. 

Radar making is the first step. 

Home build radars will serve all of your three services.

You can only build upon it.

Perhaps a JV with China can accelerate this process.

Thanks again.


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## Arsalan

Sinopakfriend said:


> Dear Arsalan, thank you for your candid feedback.
> 
> This is then a strategic imperative to have robust ADS & BMDS.
> 
> You are right, no need to invent the wheel.
> 
> Radar making is the first step.
> 
> Home build radars will serve all of your three services.
> 
> You can only build upon it.
> 
> Perhaps a JV with China can accelerate this process.
> 
> Thanks again.


True and totally agreed with. In fact, China is not the only option and there are others available out there was well with whom we can and should seek out such JV. Start with radars, runs some missile systems parallel to that. Start small and gradually build on that. This is something that is seriously required now.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Arsalan said:


> True and totally agreed with. In fact, China is not the only option and there are others available out there was well with whom we can and should seek out such JV. Start with radars, runs some missile systems parallel to that. Start small and gradually build on that. This is something that is seriously required now.



Every small step shortens the distance towards the destination.

All the building blocks are there. 

One is sure that your good country will achieve this capability one day soon.

All the best. You need strong defence.

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## RAMPAGE

@Arsalan 

What makes you so sure that we have no BMD capability?


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## Arsalan

RAMPAGE said:


> @Arsalan
> 
> What makes you so sure that we have no BMD capability?


hmmmm,, well,, my habit of not indulging into speculation and not believing in rumors perhaps! 
What makes you question that?  

This is a fact bro, we do lack any credible nation wide land based air defense system. We do have good radar coverage of the whole country and works as a good network but we do not have good SAM base to provide that air defense umbrella and unfortunately not much is being done to change that.

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## Hassan Guy

When will the Shaheen IV enter service?


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## The Deterrent

Hassan Guy said:


> When will the Shaheen IV enter service?


Shaheen-IV? 
Let Shaheen-III enter service first.


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## Bratva

The Deterrent said:


> Shaheen-IV?
> Let Shaheen-III enter service first.




Officials from SPD gave briefing to media about Shaheen III in ideas 2016

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## AUz

Bratva said:


> Officials from SPD gave briefing to media about Shaheen III in ideas 2016



So Shaheen III can be deployed with multiple warheads? 

I mean I know it's Urdu media, but then again it's Duniya news (somewhat credible) and they are "reporting" the briefing given by authorities in the ongoing IDEAS 2016. So chances of mistakes seem low ( or atleast should be low)

Dr Samar Mubarakmand also stated, multiple times, in an interview last year that Shaheen III is "not interceptable" by indian or majority of their defense systems around the globe..

So MIRVs for our ballistic missiles? 

@The Deterrent

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## Bratva

Mänwe said:


> Translation
> 
> Translation?



Can reach delhi in 3 minutes, Can reach Nicobar islands within 15 minutes. Has a speed of 18 MACH

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## The Deterrent

AUz said:


> So Shaheen III can be deployed with multiple warheads?
> 
> I mean I know it's Urdu media, but then again it's Duniya news (somewhat credible) and they are "reporting" the briefing given by authorities in the ongoing IDEAS 2016. So chances of mistakes seem low ( or atleast should be low)
> 
> Dr Samar Mubarakmand also stated, multiple times, in an interview last year that Shaheen III is "not interceptable" by indian or majority of their defense systems around the globe..
> 
> So MIRVs for our ballistic missiles?
> 
> @The Deterrent



No, Shaheen-III can't be used for MIRV delivery in its present configuration.

That is correct, the RV of Shaheen-III has certain characteristics which the present Indian BMD (AAD/PDV) and S-400 cannot intercept.

Not just yet, be a little bit more patient.

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## AUz

The Deterrent said:


> No, Shaheen-III can't be used for MIRV delivery in its present configuration.
> 
> *That is correct, the RV of Shaheen-III has certain characteristics which the present Indian BMD (AAD/PDV) and S-400 cannot intercept.*
> 
> Not just yet, be a little bit more patient.


 
And what characteristics are those? Dr Mubarak was talking about "terminal" guidance where we can guide the warhead and change its course right till the end. Is it true? (I didn't buy it and took it as him trying to over simplify the reality for the general audience)


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## The Deterrent

AUz said:


> And what characteristics are those? Dr Mubarak was talking about "terminal" guidance where we can guide the warhead and change its course right till the end. Is it true? (I didn't buy it and took it as him trying to over simplify the reality for the general audience)



Theoretically course changing is possible until before reentry. That uncertainty combined with the sheer speed of the RV and (potential) counter-measures deployment would make it quite hard to intercept it, at-least before re-entry.

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## ahsanhaider

Pakistan's Quick Missile deployment can annihilate India in 5 Minutes

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## Awan68

AUz said:


> So Shaheen III can be deployed with multiple warheads?
> 
> I mean I know it's Urdu media, but then again it's Duniya news (somewhat credible) and they are "reporting" the briefing given by authorities in the ongoing IDEAS 2016. So chances of mistakes seem low ( or atleast should be low)
> 
> Dr Samar Mubarakmand also stated, multiple times, in an interview last year that Shaheen III is "not interceptable" by indian or majority of their defense systems around the globe..
> 
> So MIRVs for our ballistic missiles?
> 
> @The Deterrent


Lol and why cant be news written in urdu be credible??, seriously what is wrong with u guys, goray chaly gae bhai 70 sal pehle ab to bas kar do ghulami...


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## AUz

Awan68 said:


> Lol and why cant be news written in urdu be credible??, seriously what is wrong with u guys, goray chaly gae bhai 70 sal pehle ab to bas kar do ghulami...



It has nothing to do with ghulami mentality (that many Pakistanis have, I admit).

It has to do with the Urdu media's utter ignorance of technical affairs when it comes to defense reporting. Those who have had experience on this board know that.


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## ahsanhaider




----------



## HRK



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## raahaat7

Horus said:


> Whatever happened to our SLV.





The Deterrent said:


> Not coming till 2016-17.





Horus said:


> We ought to develop our space capabilities.


Still no slv in sight. First news about the programe surfaced in 1999. That means 18 of mental torture.


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## sur

HRK said:


>


He said reentry warhead could not be easily targeted because immense speed. Do you know if there's any system to target those?


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## The Deterrent

raahaat7 said:


> Still no slv in sight. First news about the programe surfaced in 1999. That means 18 of mental torture.


The program of the late 90s/early 2000s was shelved. It had been restarted slowly a couple years ago so delays are expected.

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## Safriz

The Deterrent said:


> The program of the late 90s/early 2000s was shelved. It had been restarted slowly a couple years ago so delays are expected.


Also don't forget SUPARCO is "Sarkaari Naukri" . Last time i wanted to find about progress of Beidou repeaters and other installations in Pakistan, the woman in charge was on an indefinite leave and was in Canada with nobody else assigned to do her job.


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## The Deterrent

شاھین میزایل said:


> Also don't forget SUPARCO is "Sarkaari Naukri" . Last time i wanted to find about progress of Beidou repeaters and other installations in Pakistan, the woman in charge was on an indefinite leave and was in Canada with nobody else assigned to do her job.


SUPARCO has a minor role in this.

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## Safriz

The Deterrent said:


> SUPARCO has a minor role in this.


That's good news if true.


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## HRK

sur said:


> He said reentry warhead could not be easily targeted because immense speed. Do you know if there's any system to target those?



Not in my knowledge; some of the missile defence systems are based on mid course interception while THAAD (& I think S-400 also) use Terminal phase interception, so currently there no such system in my knowledge which is design to intercept incoming warhead, but i think one thing I must state that Multiple Kill Vehicle is under development which is design to intercept the MIRVs so in other words it is design to kill 'WARHEADS'

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

HRK said:


> Not in my knowledge; some of the missile defence systems are based on mid course interception while THAAD (& I think S-400 also) use Terminal phase interception, so currently there no such system in my knowledge which is design to intercept incoming warhead, but i think one thing I must state that Multiple Kill Vehicle is under development which is design to intercept the MIRVs so in other words it is design to kill 'WARHEADS'




Needless to say that some place, somewhere, someone is trying to design a countermeasure to this countermeasure. It will never end.


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## raahaat7

The Deterrent said:


> The program of the late 90s/early 2000s was shelved. It had been restarted slowly a couple years ago so delays are expected.


How much time will it take to make the slv now that the programme has been restarted.


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## HRK

The Deterrent said:


> SUPARCO has a minor role in this.



Sir jee would that be solid fuel base or Liquid fuel base ....


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## raahaat7

AUz said:


> Don't expect any increase in range in next 15 years. Its official. No significant increase in range for next 15 years.


Heartbreak?!


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## raahaat7

PWFI said:


> Tahia El Djzaiire


what that means?



Arsalan said:


> True and totally agreed with. In fact, China is not the only option and there are others available out there was well with whom we can and should seek out such JV. Start with radars, runs some missile systems parallel to that. Start small and gradually build on that. This is something that is seriously required now.


but i read somewhere that pakistan was making SAR's indigenously. Please enlighten me about the state of radar development in pakistan. Are the trm's made localy.


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## Arsalan

raahaat7 said:


> what that means?
> 
> 
> but i read somewhere that pakistan was making SAR's indigenously. Please enlighten me about the state of radar development in Pakistan. Are the trm's made localy.


It is all experiential level prototype development work for us. We are not bulk producing these systems but that might change with Kamra Aviation city coming online.


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## Cool_Soldier

Pakistan should have SLV as we are not planning to test any ICBM due to external pressure.


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## PWFI

raahaat7 said:


> what that means?


Algeria zindabad


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## raahaat7

Arsalan said:


> It is all experiential level prototype development work for us. We are not bulk producing these systems but that might change with Kamra Aviation city coming online.


Insha-Allah. Thanks for answering.


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## The Deterrent

raahaat7 said:


> How much time will it take to make the slv now that the programme has been restarted.


Can't say.


HRK said:


> Sir jee would that be solid fuel base or Liquid fuel base ...


The latter.

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## The Accountant

The Deterrent said:


> SUPARCO has a minor role in this.


So if SUPARCO has limited role than it is to test ICBM capability in the disguise ??? 

I was aware that Pakistan was working on 7500 range but stopped due to extrnal and economical pressures ...


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## The Deterrent

The Accountant said:


> So if SUPARCO has limited role than it is to test ICBM capability in the disguise ???
> 
> I was aware that Pakistan was working on 7500 range but stopped due to extrnal and economical pressures ...


No. SUPARCO lacks the technical expertise to build such a complex system from its own resources. There won't be any disguise, the purpose will be to get satellites in space as efficiently as possible.

Nope, Pakistan never worked on such a system. There were some long-term future plans, discussions (back in early 2000s), but there was simply no motivation, besides the obvious financial & technical constraints & international repercussions.

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## sparten

Actually once you have made an IRBM of 3000 km range you have got all the technical ability to make an ICBM. All the challenges of ICBM have to be solved for IRBM also.

Re SLV, multiple types of launcher, upto medium and heavy are planned. Rumour has it that AF and Navy will have separate systems.

One crazy rumour I have heard which is very unlikely to be true but to God I wish would be is that PAF GDP, PN FAA and PA AA have been sounded out about providing a list of pilots suitable for astronaut training. 

While participation in the Chinese Shenzhou programme has been mooted and we earlier seriously considered sending a few officers on Shuttle training (Pressler put an end to any hopes of that), this rumour says that it's for local designed spacecraft.

As I said crazy, and unlikely. But man a Gemini class craft is just about in our capabilities. One can dream.

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## Reichsmarschall

@The Deterrent @amardeep mishra @The Accountant @CriticalThought your comments

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## The Deterrent

Narendra Trump said:


> @The Deterrent @amardeep mishra @The Accountant @CriticalThought your comments
> View attachment 423271


BS. Already explained here.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-affairs-post-about-shaheen-3-range.515738/#post-9831854

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## Reichsmarschall

The Deterrent said:


> Not coming till 2016-17.





Horus said:


> Whatever happened to our SLV.


so it means we are going to test SLV this year? right?


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## The Deterrent

Narendra Trump said:


> so it means we are going to test SLV this year? right?

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## amardeep mishra

Narendra Trump said:


> @The Deterrent @amardeep mishra @The Accountant @CriticalThought your comments
> View attachment 423271


Hi @Narendra Trump
I cant view the original video, but there are various factual inaccuracies and I will try to correct them, but as I can see, @The Deterrent has done most of the job.
1) The white smoke trail you see is actually due to pressure difference, as you go up, the atmospheric pressure falls off drastically and hence the density, there will be a point when the density of exhaust will be higher than the density of the local atmosphere. Also kindly note, the nozzles are designed to operate "optimally" in a certain altitude zone. What I mean by optimality is the fact that when your rocket(nozzle) operate in this altitude region, you'll have least possible divergence losses from the nozzle, in any other case, there will be either over expansion or under expansion.

2) Burnout time is not the real measure of range of the ICBM, what matters in defining the trajectory or range are-
(a) Burnout Altitude
(b) Burnout Angle
(c) Burnout Velocity
The burnout time depends on the acceleration of your motor, if lets say you've a motor with very high ISp values, then you'll likely have a lower burnout time. Also it depends on the amount of fuel carried on-board--which in turn dictates the size of the rocket.

3) It is patently false to assume that solid motor has higher Isp than liquid motor. On the contrary even the most primitive liquid motor comprising of N2O4/UDMH has higher Isp than a solid motor of similar mass. In fact liquid in general burn much more "uniformly" and emit lesser unburnt particles vis-a-vis solids. The Isp figures progressively increase as we move from UDMH(hypergollic) to LOX/kerosene(semi-cryogenic) to LOX/LH(cryogenic). However there are various pros and cons of using liquid engine-
for starters--Pros
1) It has much higher thrust and lesser unburnt particles
2) Throtleable i.e the thrust can be controlled

Cons
1) Takes enormous amount of time to fill the tanks.
2) In case of hypergollics, the constituents are highly corrosive and dangerous, In the case of cryogenics, the technology required is very complex.
3) Generally require a lot of volume.
In the light of last three points, it is advisable from operational perspective that ICBMs be fuelled by solids rather than liquids. Thereby reducing the reaction time to launch a ICBM. With canisterization, the prep times can be further lowered to just a couple of mins. It is rumored that A-5 can be launched in as less as 10mins! But there are a whole range of issues that crop up when you have to store you missiles in a hermetically sealed silo for extended duration of time. Those issues might range from how to fill the RCS tanks to the type of metal alloys suitable for those tanks etc, etc.

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## fatman17

*Asia-Pacific*
Pakistan conducted



a successful flight test of Shaheen-III, a surface-to-surface ballistic missile, capable of hitting targets as far as 2,750 kilometers. The test flight was aimed at re-validating various design and technical parameters of the weapon system, said Director General Inter Services Public Relations (DG ISPR) Major General Babar Iftikhar in a tweet. According to ISPR, the successful flight test, with its impact point in the Arabian Sea, was witnessed by Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Nadeem Raza, Director General Strategic Plans Division, Commander Army Strategic Forces Command, Chairman NESCOM and the scientists and engineers involved.

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## RadioactiveFriends

Shaheen3 - WhiteFalcon

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## Sineva

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351863941337591808

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## Reichsmarschall

Sineva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351863941337591808


Dude, what is this behavior? It's a week old news.


----------



## Sineva

Reichsmarschall said:


> Dude, what is this behavior? It's a week old news.


Well dude,its really rather strange....you see you have this dedicated thread labelled "Shaheen III News and Discussions",but oddly enough no one bothered updating it with the latest news ie the 2nd[?] successful test launch of the missile in question back on the 21st,I suppose at the time various posters were all trying to beat each other to the punch posting numerous pointless duplicate threads in virtually every place but the correct one,am I right?
Anyway no need to thank me,I`m merely a humble poster contributing to the site when and where he can.

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## Reichsmarschall

Sineva said:


> Well dude,its really rather strange....you see you have this dedicated thread labelled "Shaheen III News and Discussions",but oddly enough no one bothered updating it with the latest news ie the 2nd[?] successful test launch of the missile in question back on the 21st,I suppose at the time various posters were all trying to beat each other to the punch posting numerous pointless duplicate threads in virtually every place but the correct one,am I right?
> Anyway no need to thank me,I`m merely a humble poster contributing to the site when and where he can.











Pakistan conducts test of Shaheen 3 missiles - ISPR .


Alhamdullah we done it perfectly



defence.pk


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## air marshal




----------



## Thorough Pro

What will it take to convert our Shaheen's in to a long range A2A? Just a new guidance system and an appropriate warhead




air marshal said:


>


----------



## fatman17

Range

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## KaiserX

Thorough Pro said:


> What will it take to convert our Shaheen's in to a long range A2A? Just a new guidance system and an appropriate warhead



Shaheens are way to big and bulky to use as an A2A missile. The Shaheen 1 though theoretically can be converted for us as a Ballistic missile interceptor though.


----------



## Thorough Pro

I didn't mean the Shaheen in its current form, rather the Shaheen tech in a longer/narrower body to be suitable for a SAM 



KaiserX said:


> Shaheens are way to big and bulky to use as an A2A missile. The Shaheen 1 though theoretically can be converted for us as a Ballistic missile interceptor though.


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## Green Machine

This missile is the longest range Pakistan missile but it still is not far enough, we need IRBM.

Pakistan must be able to hit east as far as Tokyo, as far west as Rome, As far north as Moscow and as far south as Johannesburg

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## Menace2Society

when ICBM test ?


----------



## Pakistan Ka Beta

Sineva said:


> Well dude,its really rather strange....you see you have this dedicated thread labelled "Shaheen III News and Discussions",but oddly enough no one bothered updating it with the latest news ie the 2nd[?] successful test launch of the missile in question back on the 21st,I suppose at the time various posters were all trying to beat each other to the punch posting numerous pointless duplicate threads in virtually every place but the correct one,am I right?
> Anyway no need to thank me,I`m merely a humble poster contributing to the site when and where he can.





Reichsmarschall said:


> Pakistan conducts test of Shaheen 3 missiles - ISPR .
> 
> 
> Alhamdullah we done it perfectly
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk





air marshal said:


>





Thorough Pro said:


> What will it take to convert our Shaheen's in to a long range A2A? Just a new guidance system and an appropriate warhead





fatman17 said:


> Range
> View attachment 716717





Green Machine said:


> This missile is the longest range Pakistan missile but it still is not far enough, we need IRBM.
> 
> Pakistan must be able to hit east as far as Tokyo, as far west as Rome, As far north as Moscow and as far south as Johannesburg





Menace2Society said:


> when ICBM test ?






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512716113985085441




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512714039218122753



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512710884518359042

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## [--Leo--]

Thank you USA allowed us to test this missile

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## graphican

[--Leo--] said:


> Thank you USA allowed us to test this missile


Bajwas thinking doesn't represent my Nation. We are a proud Nation and will defend our liberties InShaAllah.

Congratulations on the test.

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## The Terminator

Can this missile target and destroy the US influence (invasion) in Pakistan??



farhan_9909 said:


> Shaheen III is for SLV purpose because of having Re entry vehicle capability and Ghauri III is 4000km missile to counter the israel.


🙄Are you sure! 😳. Seriously!

How would you be able to target the US offspring while you can't even say no to them in your sovereign internal matters?
Kia ye khula tazaad NAHI?

Fun Fact:
Israel doesn't even have the total population equivalent to the just manpower of the OIC militaries when combined together.

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## Enigma SIG

Crystal-Clear said:


> Puri qoam ko mayusi mey dhakel ker missiles test ho rey .


This missile has special mission, mayusi gunah hai


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512768911401533444

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## ghazi52

Yes !! Great news.
Is the missile having same range as last year??
........
Pakistan conducts successful test flight of Shaheen-III ballistic missile​By News desk
January 20, 2021


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## ghazi52

,.,.,.







Lieutenant General Nadeem Zaki Manj, Director General Strategic Plans Division (DG SPD), was chief guest on the occasion...






,.,.,.,.,

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## [--Leo--]

graphican said:


> Bajwas thinking doesn't represent my Nation. We are a proud Nation and will defend our liberties InShaAllah.
> 
> Congratulations on the test.


How is that even possible since 75 years people up their deciding out fate.I don't think so that is even possible to break the chain i have accepted that we are slave of USA there is nothing you can do about it

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## Crimson Blue

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512994713053405185

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## graphican

graphican said:


> Bajwas thinking doesn't represent my Nation. We are a proud Nation and will defend our liberties InShaAllah.
> 
> Congratulations on the test.






Why laugh @Caprxl? Do you feel mocked when I call we are a Proud Nation? Is there a guilt or a giggle hiding behind your sense of patriotism? It's okay, it's a safe place to open up if you're brave enough. No pressure.

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## khansaheeb

ghazi52 said:


> ,.,.,.
> View attachment 832358
> 
> 
> 
> Lieutenant General Nadeem Zaki Manj, Director General Strategic Plans Division (DG SPD), was chief guest on the occasion...
> 
> 
> View attachment 832362
> 
> ,.,.,.,.,


That is one big missile, a little bigger and we could send a man into space.


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## SD 10

graphican said:


> Bajwas thinking doesn't represent my Nation. We are a proud Nation and will defend our liberties InShaAllah.
> 
> Congratulations on the test.


PROUD?        . WE ARE BEGGARS NOTHING ELSE!!!!

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## graphican

SD 10 said:


> PROUD?        . WE ARE BEGGARS NOTHING ELSE!!!!



No offence sir, we are what we believe. If we believe we are beggars... that is what we are. 

But,

I believe I belong to a Nation that has earned its independence after 100+ years of struggle against then super power, and I am a son of this Nation that comes into being because we are Muslims and One as per Allah's Commandment. We are the ons who bow to no one other than Allah Subhan wa Taela. *We may be in tatters, but we are not beggars*.


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## maverick1977

Range and payload of Shaheen 3 .. ?


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## hunter_hunted

maverick1977 said:


> Range and payload of Shaheen 3 .. ?



Range is from GHQ to Supreme/IH court and Assembly hall and payload is treachery and some cowardness

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## American Pakistani

What's the use of missile? Ghulam and beggars doesn't need missiles, do they?

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## maverick1977

hunter_hunted said:


> Range is from GHQ to Supreme/IH court and Assembly hall and payload is treachery and some cowardness




I hear you, i am trying to move on in life with the pain that this treachery has inflcited Pakistan.. yet again Gen Bajwa was worse than Gen yayha of 1971, and on par with MIr Jaffar.

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## White and Green with M/S

maverick1977 said:


> Range and payload of Shaheen 3 .. ?


Range is 2750 km, payload 1000 kg


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

khansaheeb said:


> we could send a man into space.


Dekhte raho khawab space mein jane 😂
Generals do not like space wpace

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## The Accountant

graphican said:


> No offence sir, we are what we believe. If we believe we are beggars... that is what we are.
> 
> But,
> 
> I believe I belong to a Nation that has earned its independence after 100+ years of struggle against then super power, and I am a son of this Nation that comes into being because we are Muslims and One as per Allah's Commandment. We are the ons who bow to no one other than Allah Subhan wa Taela. *We may be in tatters, but we are not beggars*.


This is beleif of our new PM

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## alimobin memon

whats its speed ? since India has now s400 ?


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## HttpError

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Dekhte raho khawab space mein jane 😂
> Generals do not like space wpace



They like Zameen, you mean DHA?

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## yusufjee

My question is. For all these missiles and nukes, have we even conquered one inch of occupied Kashmir?

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## Trango Towers

Last Hope said:


> It has been disclosed, and is under development.
> Its is a IRBM, range *5000-5500 KM*, and nuclear warhead capable of carrying *2200*KG
> 
> I havent got anyfurther information, but I _guess_ only 15-25 would be made, and it would be tested in early 2012.
> 
> *Tipu ICBM*, whose range is is *7500-8500KM* and capable of carrying nuclear warhead downto *4500KG* is also under development so is *Ghauri III IRBM*, range *4000-45000KM* and also nuclear warhead downto *1800KG*
> 
> Tipu would be developed until mid 2014 and Ghauri III can be expected next year.
> 
> 
> _(These dates are my personal guess)_


Until and unless all of Europe and USA and Israel is covered its pointless.
Plus men with balls to run this department.


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## White and Green with M/S

alimobin memon said:


> whats its speed ? since India has now s400 ?


Mach 18+

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## alimobin memon

White and Green with M/S said:


> Mach 18+


So it can evade abm


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## Broccoli

alimobin memon said:


> So it can evade abm



Not if flies in straight line like most warheads.


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Broccoli said:


> Not if flies in straight line like most warheads.


A Ballistic Missile Warhead flying at above mach 10 velocity can be intercepted?
ABMs are made to intercept missiles at boost phase not after its warhead is separated from missile body.


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## White and Green with M/S

alimobin memon said:


> So it can evade abm





Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> A Ballistic Missile Warhead flying at above mach 10 velocity can be intercepted?
> ABMs are made to intercept missiles at boost phase not after its warhead is separated from missile body.


No, simple Ballistic trajectories can easily be predicted unless you have maneuverable warheads and no ABM systems in the world can intercept BMs at boost phase, US and Russian ABM systems can intercept BMs in MID phase (cruising Phase) in space.


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

White and Green with M/S said:


> No, simple Ballistic trajectories can easily be predicted unless you have maneuverable warheads and no ABM systems in the world can intercept BMs at boost phase, US and Russian ABM systems can intercept BMs in MID phase (cruising Phase) in space.


But speed is the key here.

After Warhead is separated,due to its shear speed, it's unstoppable.

*I should have used cruising phase instead of boosting phase in my previous post


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## RAMPAGE

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> ABMs are made to intercept missiles at boost phase not after its warhead is separated from missile body.


Not all of them.


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

RAMPAGE said:


> Not all of them.


Name any of ABMs that can intercept missile warhead.


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## White and Green with M/S

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> But speed is the key here.
> 
> After Warhead is separated,due to its shear speed, it's unstoppable.
> 
> *I should have used cruising phase instead of boosting phase in my previous post


No Its not unstoppable, it can be easily intercepted by exoatmoshphre interceptors like US Mid course system THAAD and Russian ABM 135/ S-400 unless you have some kind of maneuvering warheads



Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Name any of ABMs that can intercept missile warhead.


THAAD/S-400 and HQ-26/29

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## RAMPAGE

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Name any of ABMs that can intercept missile warhead.


THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) is designed to intercept the warheads of short-intermediate ranged BMs in _terminal_ phase. 






Watch this.


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

RAMPAGE said:


> THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) is designed to intercept the warheads of short-intermediate ranged BMs in _terminal_ phase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch this.


So only solution is manureable warhead?

I wonder why we went for MIRV instead of MaRV!


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## RAMPAGE

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> So only solution is manureable warhead?
> 
> I wonder why we went for MIRV instead of MaRV!


Who says we do not have MaRVs? If memory serves, we developed those first. We spotted thrusters on the warheads back in mid 2020s.

Anyway, this is terrible stuff. Heaven forbid any of it is ever used.


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

RAMPAGE said:


> Who says we do not have MaRVs? If memory serves, we developed those first. We spotted thrusters on the warheads back in mid 2020s.
> 
> Anyway, this is terrible stuff. Heaven forbid any of it is ever used.


And how can a missile be protected from ABMs during cruising phase?


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## RAMPAGE

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> And how can a missile be protected from ABMs during cruising phase?


Midcourse? I am not sure. I think the key might be to search and destroy enemy AMB installations beforehand.


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

RAMPAGE said:


> I think the key might be to search and destroy enemy AMB installations beforehand.


Now that is almost impossible for Pakistan.

One way can be to jamme enemy radars
Or making rocket go faster
Or simply making trajectory dispersed so that enemy radars can't pick the missile at right time


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## arslank03

RAMPAGE said:


> Who says we do not have MaRVs? If memory serves, we developed those first. We spotted thrusters on the warheads back in mid 2020s.
> 
> Anyway, this is terrible stuff. Heaven forbid any of it is ever used.


where are these images? I am yet to see a Pakistani warhead


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## Broccoli

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> So only solution is manureable warhead?
> 
> I wonder why we went for MIRV instead of MaRV!



India doesn't have robust ABM syste, but if Pakistan is worried about that i'm sure they are already looking into developing more advanced penaids.

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## khansaheeb

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> And how can a missile be protected from ABMs during cruising phase?


Speed, trajectory , ECM, Decoys and Stealth?


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

khansaheeb said:


> Speed, trajectory , ECM, Decoys and Stealth?


If we can take out indian radars before the nuclear threshold is reached,it will be impossible for India to intercept our nuclear strike.

To neutralize Radar network,we need World class subsonic and super cruise missiles.
In subsonic category,we are going fine( a highly stealth design is still needed,our current designs are LO but not completely stealth)
We lack in Super Sonic category.

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## CHI RULES

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> If we can take out indian radars before the nuclear threshold is reached,it will be impossible for India to intercept our nuclear strike.
> 
> To neutralize Radar network,we need World class subsonic and super cruise missiles.
> In subsonic category,we are going fine( a highly stealth design is still needed,our current designs are LO but not completely stealth)
> We lack in Super Sonic category.


Pakistan has already inducted ground based EW system to tackle Indian Air defenses which may provide window to Pak CM and BMs to penetrate through Indian defenses.

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## PDF

As Shaheen 3 has a 2750 km range, can we strike Andaman and Nicobar Islands from North-East/West of Pakistan? Or do we have to reduce payload in warhead for that? If the range limits us to fire the missile from South, doesn't it make us vulnerable to predict the location?


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

PDF said:


> As Shaheen 3 has a 2750 km range, can we strike Andaman and Nicobar Islands from North-East/West of Pakistan? Or do we have to reduce payload in warhead for that? If the range limits us to fire the missile from South, doesn't it make us vulnerable to predict the location?


Why not send a submarine loaded with babar 3 to strike important targets on these islands?
S3 is overkill.


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## PDF

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Why not send a submarine loaded with babar 3 to strike important targets on these islands?
> S3 is overkill.


Submarine is an essential part of second strike capability. If you have a MRBM, it should be well used.

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