# Pakistan Navy Fast Attack Craft launched



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

In late February 2010, AMI received a copy of a Pakistani Navy (PN) tender inquiry concerning the procurement of two 500-ton Fast Attack Craft (FAC). The tender was released by Electronic Business Systems of Karachi for the Ministry of Defence Production. The invitation to tender (ITT) (No. 1347/209/DGDP/PC-4 dtd 11 Feb 2010 on FOB basis due for opening on 24 March 2010) is for the supply of two 500-ton FAC hulls, fitted for weapons configuration. Responses to the ITT are due by 1500 (local time) on 22 March 2010 if by post, and 1030 (local time) 24 March 2010 if delivered by hand. Opening will occur at 11 (local) on 24 March.

The entire tender document can be found in AMI&#8217;s Electronic Library at: http://www.amiinter.com/wnpr/download_docs/index.html. 

After entering the website, click on the Pakistan country folder, then click on Tender for Two 500-Ton FAC for Pakistani Navy.

The ITT lists the main characteristics for the FAC as follows:

-Full load displacement of 500-600 tons
-Overall length of 60 meters (196.8ft)
-Radius of action equal to or greater than 500 nautical &#8226; miles, max speed 30 knots
-Complement of 55-60 personnel 
-And fitted with the following weapon and sensor systems:
-8 Chinese C-802A SSMs
-Two 25mm close range semi-automatic EO/IR AA &#8226; guns
-Two 12.7mm machine guns
-Chaff and IR decoys
-Air/Surface search radar with track while scan (TWS) function
-Electro optical director and fire control radars for associated weapons
-Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) System
-Modern C3 System

Detailed main characteristics, design specifications, operational capabilities and combat capabilities are described in detail in the ITT.

http://www.amiinter.com/whatsnew/hotnews.pdf
====

Was guided to this by H Khan's post in pakdef.

Completely slipped by me - anyone else aware of this?

The tender date is passed, so proposals must have been submitted by now. I did a quick google, and there are not a lot of FAC in the 500 ton class that I could find. A Chinese model does exist (likely choice given the requirements for C802A missile).

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## Peregrine

Hi, 
what are the prospects of type 022 making its way in PN


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Referring to this:

Type 022 (Houbei Class) Fast Attack Missile Craft - SinoDefence.com
_
The Type 022 is 40m in length, 12m in beam, and 1.5m in draught. The vessel has a full displacement of 220 tonnes. The propulsion includes two diesels rated at 6,865hp and two water jets, giving a maximum speed of 36 knots. The vessel is operated by 12~14 crew._

=====

The specs of the Type 022 don't appear to match up with the PN's requirements in the tender, by a large amount.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

The Type 037 does appear to match the specs in the tender.

Type 037-II (Houjian Class) Missile Corvette - SinoDefence.com

Wasn't Turkey also developing a missile boat larger than the MRTP-33?

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## applesauce

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Referring to this:
> 
> Type 022 (Houbei Class) Fast Attack Missile Craft - SinoDefence.com
> _
> The Type 022 is 40m in length, 12m in beam, and 1.5m in draught. The vessel has a full displacement of 220 tonnes. The propulsion includes two diesels rated at 6,865hp and two water jets, giving a maximum speed of 36 knots. The vessel is operated by 12~14 crew._
> 
> =====
> 
> The specs of the Type 022 don't appear to match up with the PN's requirements in the tender, by a large amount.



thats too bad, type-22 is a very capable ship and is supposedly fairly good at evading radar can house 8 missiles and with data link can attack over the horizon targets, china already has them in large numbers and as the class suggests(FAC) they are fast


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## sparklingway

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> In late February 2010, AMI received a copy of a Pakistani Navy (PN) tender inquiry concerning the procurement of two 500-ton Fast Attack Craft (FAC). The tender was released by Electronic Business Systems of Karachi for the Ministry of Defence Production. The invitation to tender (ITT) (No. 1347/209/DGDP/PC-4 dtd 11 Feb 2010 on FOB basis due for opening on 24 March 2010) is for the supply of two 500-ton FAC hulls, fitted for weapons configuration. Responses to the ITT are due by 1500 (local time) on 22 March 2010 if by post, and 1030 (local time) 24 March 2010 if delivered by hand. Opening will occur at 11 (local) on 24 March.



Might be a bit off topic, but it looks like PPRA rules were yet again violated as the necessary conditions don't look to have been met.


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## Kompromat

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> The Type 037 does appear to match the specs in the tender.
> 
> Type 037-II (Houjian Class) Missile Corvette - SinoDefence.com
> 
> *Wasn't Turkey also developing a missile boat larger than the MRTP-33*?



We need Cabatli53 .

MRTP-33 






*BUT*

Corvettes & missile boats
The Pakistan Navy operates four Jalalat class 200 ton missile boats each armed with four Chinese C-802 anti-ship missiles. The Jalalat II Class were locally produced using a German design. In November 2006 the Pakistan Navy ordered two MRTP-33 missile boats from Yonca-Onuk shipyards of Turkey.[32] The first will be delivered in 2008. The *Navy has an overall requirement of eight MRTP-33s.*

Is it what we are reffering to ?

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## cabatli_53

Black Blood said:


> We need Cabatli53 .
> 
> MRTP-33
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BUT*
> 
> Corvettes & missile boats
> The Pakistan Navy operates four Jalalat class 200 ton missile boats each armed with four Chinese C-802 anti-ship missiles. The Jalalat II Class were locally produced using a German design. In November 2006 the Pakistan Navy ordered two MRTP-33 missile boats from Yonca-Onuk shipyards of Turkey.[32] The first will be delivered in 2008. The *Navy has an overall requirement of eight MRTP-33s.*
> 
> Is it what we are reffering to ?





Bro !!!

Yonca-Onuk is working on development of a new patrol boat having more bigger deplacement than MRTP-33 called MRTP-44 but I do not suppose that It will meet the requirements of Pakistan navy described above Because 500-600 tonnes deplacement is too big to construct for Yonca-Onuk...

In terms of the specifications described above, I suggest you to take a look Dearsan shipping YTKB boats being under construction phase for Turkish Navy now a days... I think A Modified version of YTKB can meet the requirements of PN easily...

The weapons selected for YTKB is to meet the requirements of TN (Coastal patrol, Anti-Submarine, Air target engagement and escort missions).. She can easily be modified in accordance with requirements of PN...

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## Kompromat

Thanks Cabatli , if it does what else we need if it comes from a Brother Nation.

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## Peregrine

Black Blood said:


> We need Cabatli53 .
> 
> MRTP-33
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BUT*
> 
> Corvettes & missile boats
> The Pakistan Navy operates four Jalalat class 200 ton missile boats each armed with four Chinese C-802 anti-ship missiles. The Jalalat II Class were locally produced using a German design. In November 2006 the Pakistan Navy ordered two MRTP-33 missile boats from Yonca-Onuk shipyards of Turkey.[32] The first will be delivered in 2008. The *Navy has an overall requirement of eight MRTP-33s.*
> 
> Is it what we are reffering to ?


Hi
dont we already have MRTP-33 in PN? i think we have them already


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## cabatli_53

Bro, It is understood that YTKB can not also meet the requirements of PN described above... I think You need something like Turkish Kilic-II FAC's ordered from Germany and constructed in Turkey... 

Turkish indigenous 500+dwt FAC program will start after TF-2000 program so I do not suppose that Any Turkish institues will join into this tender...

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## Donatello

cabatli_53 said:


> Bro, It is understood that YTKB can not also meet the requirements of PN described above... I think You need something like Turkish Kilic-II FAC's ordered from Germany and constructed in Turkey...
> 
> Turkish indigenous 500+dwt FAC program will start after TF-2000 program so I do not suppose that Any Turkish institues will join into this tender...





Pakistan and Turkey both have ship building industry, the latter having design capability as well. Why doesn't Pakistan design its own small 500-1000 tonne vessels, some for anti shipping roles and some for fleet air defence, with missiles being fitted with the help of the Chinese? I mean that would provide a fast and effective way to let these smaller boats operate ahead of our fleet, so they can track and target aircraft out at sea.

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## pakistantiger

yea only way is to self reliance and help from friendly countries can be addopted in some techinical matters with help of china or turky because only close allys of pakistan are turky and china not us or euorpe. If not look for Type-037II class corvets from china which has displacement of 520 tons and PN requires 500 which is good having extra 20 ton capacity


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## nightrider_saulat

CHINESE one looks more lethal.......


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## Myth_buster_1

Guys the closest to PN requirement is

*Type 037-II *


# Displacement: 520 ton
# Length: 65.4 m
# Beam: 8.4 m
# Draft: 2.4 m
# Speed: 32 kt
# Range: 1,800 nm @ 18 kt
# Propulsion: 2xSEMT-Pielstick 12 PA6 280 diesel engines @ 1,584 hp with 3 shafts
# Complement: 75
# Armament:
* Anti-ship missiles: 6 C-801/802/803
* Guns: 2 Type 76A 37 mm (II x 1) and 2 AK-230

Interesting further development of this type.

4 vessels were built for rotation, with 2 vessels being deployed to Hong Kong each time. The fifth vessel was involved in navigation accident twice. In the first time (2001) it was nearly sunk after crash with a fast ferry servicing the Hong Kong-Guangzhou route. It was on pre-delivery test at that time. In June 2006, it crashed again, with a Chinese freighter, and sunk immediately. 13 servicemen were missing in the accident. The vessel was later afloat again and sent to the shipyard for repair.
This class is sometimes also referred as Huang class.






This is what i think PN version should look like






Expect this much of change like the F-22P

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## pakistantiger

yea it look more lethal than turkish1


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## Penguin

Egypt has procured the Ambassador Mk III FAC-M from the US company Halter Marine. Might make a good candidate for funding via the US Foreign Military Support (FMS) program...

Ship Characteristics based on the Halter Marine Ambassador Mk III design:

Vessel Type: Fast Attack Craft (FAC)
Country: Egypt
Program: Fast Missile Craft (FMC)
Total Number: 4
Unit Cost (US$): 101.5M (Est.)
Builder: Halter Marine.

Displ. Tons: 550 tons
Length: 60.6m (199ft)
Beam: 10m (32.8ft) Est.)
Draft: 2m (2.5ft) (Est.)
Machinery: Probably three MTU diesels (30,000hp) (sold and serviced by Detroit Diesel Corporation in the US); three shafts; three propellers.
Speed (Knots): 41
Range: 2000nm at 15 kts, with an at-sea endurance of eight days.
Complement: 36 (eight officers, ten chief petty officers, and 18 ratings).

Weapons
Guns: 
- One United Defense Mk 75 76mm/62 Super Rapid gun; 
- one Raytheon Mk 15 Mod 21 Phalanx (Block 1B) Close-in Weapons System (CIWS); 
- two deck-mounted 7.62mm M60 machine guns.

Missiles: 
- Surface-to-Surface Missiles (SSM): Eight Boeing RGM-84G Block 1G Harpoon SSMs in two quad pack canister launchers.
- Surface-to-Air Missiles (SAMs): One Raytheon Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) system consisting of the Mk49 Guided Missile Launching System (GMLS) and a Mk44 MOD 2 Block 1 guided missile round pack (supporting 21 canister mounted missiles).

CMS/Fire Control: Lightweight Shipboard Electro-Optical System, IFF, data links (Link ASN 150, LinkYE, Link 14, and Link 11).

Radars
Navigation: Thales Nederland (formerly Signaal) Scout (I/J band).
Air/surface surveillance: European Aerospace and Defence Systems (EADS) TRS-3D radar built by Raytheon Systems.
Fire control: Unknown (I and K dual-band).

Countermeasures
Decoys: Four chaff/IR launchers (two to port and two to starboard).
Electronic Support Measures/Electronic Countermeasures (ESM/ECM): Unknown.

http://www.amiinter.com/samples/egypt/EG1401.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassador_MK_III_Missile_Boat
http://www.defenseprocurementnews.c...o-build-4th-fast-missile-craft-press-release/

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## Peregrine

Hi
Pakistan should also try to procure type 022 as its stealthy, and it packs a pretty solid punch when it comes to fire power


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## Tomahawk

*Roussen Class (62m Super Vita) Fast Attack Missile Craft, Greece*





Key Data:
Crew
45
Dimensions:
Length 62m (203ft 5in)
Beam 9.5m (31ft 2.5in)
Draught 2.6m (8ft 6in)
Displacement 580t full load 
Performance:
Speed 35kt
Endurance 7 days
Weapon Systems:
Surface-to-Surface Missile	MM40 Block II Exocet (two four-cylinder launchers) 
Surface-to-Air Missile	RAM (mk31 21-cell launcher)
Main Gun Oto Melara 76mm gun 
30mm Guns 2 x Oto Melara 
Electronic Warfare and Decoy Systems:
Combat Management System Tacticos
Surveillance Radar MW08 3D 
Electro-optical Target Tracker	Mirador
Fire Control Systems Sting BS 
Radar Integrated Scout and Bridgemaster-E navigation radar 
Communications ICS 2000 
Electronic Support Measures Argo Systems AR900
Decoys Sippican SRBOC
Propulsion:
Diesel Engines 4 x MTU 16V595 TE90 engines
Generators 3 x 250kW
Propellers 4 x fixed pitch

Featured Suppliers:

L-3 ELAC NAUTIK - SONAR SYSTEMS, ECHO SOUNDERS AND UNDERWATER COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS


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## Myth_buster_1

Tomahawk said:


> *Roussen Class (62m Super Vita) Fast Attack Missile Craft, Greece*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Key Data:
> Crew
> 45
> Dimensions:
> Length 62m (203ft 5in)
> Beam 9.5m (31ft 2.5in)
> Draught 2.6m (8ft 6in)
> Displacement 580t full load
> Performance:
> Speed 35kt
> Endurance 7 days
> Weapon Systems:
> Surface-to-Surface Missile	MM40 Block II Exocet (two four-cylinder launchers)
> Surface-to-Air Missile	RAM (mk31 21-cell launcher)
> Main Gun Oto Melara 76mm gun
> 30mm Guns 2 x Oto Melara
> Electronic Warfare and Decoy Systems:
> Combat Management System Tacticos
> Surveillance Radar MW08 3D
> Electro-optical Target Tracker	Mirador
> Fire Control Systems Sting BS
> Radar Integrated Scout and Bridgemaster-E navigation radar
> Communications ICS 2000
> Electronic Support Measures Argo Systems AR900
> Decoys Sippican SRBOC
> Propulsion:
> Diesel Engines 4 x MTU 16V595 TE90 engines
> Generators 3 x 250kW
> Propellers 4 x fixed pitch
> 
> Featured Suppliers:
> 
> L-3 ELAC NAUTIK - SONAR SYSTEMS, ECHO SOUNDERS AND UNDERWATER COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS




This is very close to PN requirements but the thing is the contract is only with China. Russia wont sell us any offensive military equipment.
In my previous post i have stated the most likely platform that will be upgraded to PN requirements just like in the case of F-22P which is a advance variant of already existing platform the type-053 H3.


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## Penguin

Growler said:


> This is very close to PN requirements but the thing is the contract is only with China. Russia wont sell us any offensive military equipment.
> In my previous post i have stated the most likely platform that will be upgraded to PN requirements just like in the case of F-22P which is a advance variant of already existing platform the type-053 H3.



There are plenty of designs around from a variety of countries, including from Turkey and South Korea, which may suite PN needs, in original or modified form.

Don't get your remark about Russia here, since no one mentioned Russia as a possible source for 2 FAC or armements.

Algeria produced its own FAC (Djebel Chenoua class) with help of China. That of course is also a possible route to take, given Pakistan already builds the smaller Jalalat class FAC (which incidentally uses a russian/chinese design twin 25mm cannon turret and chinese C80* AShM).


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## zulfiqar74

Pakistan Navy could order 4 of these fast attack boats instead of 2 

File:Hamina-luokka Hanko.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## zulfiqar74

PN could look in getting these fac, as they would be better suited for our needs

Hamina class missile boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Penguin

The Pakistan Navy's Karachi Shipyard advertises the Fast Attack Craft variant of the Liman el Hadrami (P601) class of Mauritania Navy.
This chinese designed and built ship was donated by the China Government and is currently the largest ship in the navy of Mauritania.

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## SBD-3



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## EagleEyes

Can you please be a bit more clear on what FAC joint venture would be with China. Any hint on which *fast attack craft* are they talking about?


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## stongpa

Interesting chinese video showing the interior of a Chinese type 071 (Kunlun) amphibious warfare ship

those sailors can play basketball in there, and there is a great gym!

 type 071 998 amphibious warfare ship

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## Arsalan

may be it ON looking to accquire the Type 022



> *Type 022 (Houbei Class) Fast Attack Missile Craft*The Type 022 (NATO codename: Houbei class) is the new-generation catamaran (twin-gull) missile fast attack craft (FAC) built for the PLA Navy. The first-of-class (hull number 2209) was launched in April 2004 at the Qiuxin Shipyard based in Shanghai. Six contractors are now involved in the construction of the Type 022, with about 40 hulls delivered by the end of 2007. More hulls are expected in the next few years. The vessel replaces the ageing Type 021 (Huangfeng class) that were commissioned between the late 1960s and early 1980s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Type 022 (NATO codename: Houbei class) is the new-generation catamaran (twin-gull) missile fast attack craft (FAC) built for the PLA Navy. The first-of-class (hull number 2209) was launched in April 2004 at the Qiuxin Shipyard based in Shanghai. Six contractors are now involved in the construction of the Type 022, with about 40 hulls delivered by the end of 2007. More hulls are expected in the next few years. The vessel replaces the ageing Type 021 (Huangfeng class) that were commissioned between the late 1960s and early 1980s.
> 
> *Design*
> The Type 022 features a wave-piercing catamaran hull design known as Small Waterplane Area Twin Hull (SWATH). Traditional catamaran hull design provides a large and broad decks, but it has a poor stability in high seas at high speeds. The modified wave-piercing catamaran, with its hull volume in the sea&#8217;s surface minimised, becomes very stable even on choppy seas. The bulk of the displacement necessary to keep the ship afloat is located beneath the waves, where it is less affected by wave action, as wave excitation drops exponentially with depth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The main disadvantages to the SWATH hull form are that they are expensive than conventional catamaran or mono-hulled ships, requiring a complex control system. The PRC reportedly obtained the SWATH catamaran design from AMD Marine Consulting, a very successful catamaran designer based in Australia. The company has a joint venture company called Sea Bus International based in China, specialising in designing civilian catamarans such as passenger ferries. The SWATH design was allegedly used by Chinese shipbuilding contractors to develop the Type 022 missile FAC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Type 022 missile FAC is the world&#8217;s first combat catamaran. Although a number of logistic and combat support vessels in the catamaran form were tested in the past, no catamaran has ever been built for direct combat role in the modern naval history. Coincidently, the U.S. Navy is also testing a high-speed, wave-piercing catamaran known as FSF1 &#8216;Sea Fighter&#8217; for the littoral warfare role.
> 
> The Type 022 is 40m in length, 12m in beam, and 1.5m in draught. The vessel has a full displacement of 220 tonnes. The propulsion includes two diesels rated at 6,865hp and two water jets, giving a maximum speed of 36 knots. The vessel is operated by 12~14 crew.
> 
> The design of the Type 022 has been directed to minimise the radar cross-section signature. The hull of the vessel is sloped and the windows all have jagged edges in order to limit the radar reflectivity. The hull carries camouflage paint schemes, which differs slightly according to the areas in which the vessels are deployed. Vessels deployed in northern regions carry a black-grey-blue-white four-colour camouflage, while those in southern region have a much brighter camouflage with mostly white-grey-blue.
> 
> *Weapon Systems*
> The vessel is equipped with eight YJ-83 anti-ship missiles housed in two large missile launch complexes at the stern. On the front deck locates a Russian AK-630 30mm close-in weapon system (CIWS) for short-range air defence. There are also two 4-cell tube launchers on the bow deck, possibly for launching decoys/chaffs.
> 
> The craft has a single large mask on which a number of unidentified sensors are mounted. A datalink antenna is located between the two missile launch complexes for receiving target information from sea- or air-based sensors, enabling the 'over-the-horizon' strike against surface targets.



Regards!


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## Arsalan

the Iranian Navy have also accquired FAC from China. the *Thondar-class Fast Attack Craft*

that really is a good peice of equipment. a low budgt option to safeguard the shore lines!



> The Houdong is a Chinese missile boat, based off of the Huangfeng missile boat, itself a copy of the Russian Osa class missile boats. It is armed with a four round launcher for the C-802 cruise missile, as well as a turreted twin 30mm cannon and crewed 23mm cannon for self defense. In total China reportedly sold Iran between 10 and 40 Houdong missile boats, officially named Thondar in Iranian service and possibly more than 80 C-802 anti-ship cruise missiles during the mid-1990s. These formed a major part of Iran's offensive naval capabilities during the 1990s.
> 
> In 1996, the China National Precision Machinery Import-Export Corporation, a state-run enterprise, delivered 60 C-802 model cruise missiles to Iran. These missiles were mounted on patrol boats for use by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Navy. The China National Precision Machinery Import-Export Corporation markets the C-802 in its sales brochure as a missile with "mighty attack capability" and "great firepower" for use against escort vessels such as the USS Stark. This was the same company that supplied missile technology to Pakistan, a transaction that led the United States Government to impose economic sanctions for violating US law and international non-proliferation guidelines.
> 
> In addition, China reportedly was supplying Iran with a land-based version of the C-802 cruise missile. Iran had been constructing several sites along its coastlines to accommodate Transporter-Erector-Launchers (TELs), from which the Iranian Revolutionary Guard could fire these cruise missiles at targets in both the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman. The C-802 model cruise missile provides the Iranian military a weapon with greater range, accuracy, reliability, and mobility than it previously possessed and shifted the balance of power in the Gulf region.
> 
> In November 1996, Iran conducted land, sea and air war games in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman and successfully test-fired a C-802 anti-ship cruise missile from one of its Houdong patrol boats. Admiral Scott Redd, the former commander-in-chief of the United States Fifth Fleet stationed in the Gulf, said that the C-802 missiles gave Iran a "360-degree threat which can come at you from basically anywhere." Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Robert Einhorn told the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee on 11 April 1997, that the C-802 cruise missiles "pose new, direct threats to deployed United States forces."
> 
> Elaine Sciolino pointed out in her 20 April 1997, article in The New York Times, the potential for real conflict between the United States and Iran was significant, "when two enemy navies with vastly different military missions and governments that do not talk to each other are crowded into such a small, highly strategic body of water." The acquisition by Iran of advanced cruise missiles, like the C-802 model, had to be considered a serious threat to stability, given the explosive situation that already existed. Iran's intent seemed clear: to challenge the United States for predominance in the Gulf.
> 
> The United States sought to pressure China over these sales and their potentially destabilizing character. The Chinese government agreed to US requests in 1998 to halt further C-802 sales. Circumventing this restriction, Iran obtained a license to produce the weapons, primarily for its Thondar missile boats.





> *Iranian Naval Issues *
> 
> The Government of Iran and its Navy definitely has designs on domination in the Gulf Region and one of the methods that will be used is having a fast, yet powerful seaborne force that can choke off the Strait of Hormuz for limited periods or permanently. For this they have discovered the Fast Attack Craft and C-801 and C-802 missiles that have been imported from China. In addition, they have initially imported ten Houdong-class fast attack craft that carry the C-802 missiles that a conventional warhead. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard has renamed the craft the Thondar-class. The Houdong-class in China has been quite successful, yet has been bypassed by more modern craft.
> The Chinese have sold Iran ten of what are dubbed the Thondar-class, and *each carries two C-802 anti-ship missiles *with a 165kg semi armor piercing anti-personnel warhead. It is designed to penetrate the decks or bulkheads of lightly built ships and explode within. This can include the vulnerable parts of the American Ticonderoga-class cruisers and Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. The Chinese sold 80 of the C-802 missiles to the Navy of Iran which has also established some on the coast (permanent and mobile units) near the Strait of Hormuz to intercept shipping in the narrow channels. *The missile has a range of 122km*, and *when in the attack mode will fly 15-to-20-ft above the surface of the water. *The Thondar-class is also armed with 23mm and 30mm Gatling type weapons, and is capable of 37-kts. The Iranians have not stopped with the Thondar-class, and are building several different fast-attack craft as well as missile-armed corvettes and frigates.
> The Iranian Navy has 18,000 permanently assigned officers and enlisted as well as 2600 marines and 2000 naval aviation specialists. The ranks swell to 38,000 men combined with the Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy. The force operates three Russian Navy supplied Kilo diesel/electric submarines; three modern frigates; two corvettes; ten FAC; 144 coastal patrol craft; 19 armed helicopters and five marine patrol aircraft. In 2000, Iran demonstrated the launch of its initial Seersucker, a large missile with a 450kg warhead and an 80-90km range.
> Most recently, their Navy has harassed US warships passing though the Strait of Hormuz with small, high-speed launches and broadcasting threats. This is considered to be an annoyance; however, the other issues are far more dangerous. It would only take one Thondar craft to launch its missiles to begin an all-out naval war in the Straits. Given, the unstable character of the region, this is a very distinct possibility.



regards!


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## Penguin

WebMaster said:


> Can you please be a bit more clear on what FAC joint venture would be with China. Any hint on which *fast attack craft* are they talking about?



See also this existing thread from a while back.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/52473-pakistan-issues-tenders-two-500-ton-fac.html


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## somebozo

Saudi Navy is going to operate one on lease...Actually it will be Pakistan Navy operating under Saudi flag..the "lease" excuse is just a coverup..we are blessed with some good friends and strategic depth in Middle east.


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## Skywalker

Great news, hope this will help us creating in lot more jobs in kpt.


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## Arsalan

PN need to seek for ToT of important part and modren high tech equipment from friendly nation. like we must look try to develope the knowledge of CIWS and its control system from china. similarly we can look for combat control system from Turkey, naval guns can be produced with help of these friends. this will help building the navy, in this way we will be able to even upgrade our existing fleet and design new boats as per our requirment.

what PN is currently doing is not good in my view. we say that the F22p frigat will be constructed at home but what is important is that all high tech equipment would be flying in from China. we must develop such systems ourselves. NESCOM, POF Wah, AWC, KARI NDC all have the potential to develop some of the finest equipment and when we can put this all together we will form a good platform!!

regards!


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## applesauce

arsalanaslam123 said:


> PN need to seek for ToT of important part and modren high tech equipment from friendly nation. like we must look try to develope the knowledge of CIWS and its control system from china. similarly we can look for combat control system from Turkey, naval guns can be produced with help of these friends. this will help building the navy, in this way we will be able to even upgrade our existing fleet and design new boats as per our requirment.
> 
> what PN is currently doing is not good in my view. we say that the F22p frigat will be constructed at home but what is important is that all high tech equipment would be flying in from China. we must develop such systems ourselves. NESCOM, POF Wah, AWC, KARI NDC all have the potential to develop some of the finest equipment and when we can put this all together we will form a good platform!!
> 
> regards!



while it would be great if pakistan can develop all sorts of things by it self but we must look at reality, how many countries can develop the range of technologies for a frigate-destroyer sized ship largely by itself? pakistan must focus only on certain areas if it wants to succeed and the rest can be gained from friendly nations, also self development from such a low base takes far too long, by the time your done the world has moved 4 generations ahead

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## Super Falcon

well good to hear that they are getting something but better that we have got the deal for destroyers which pakistan navy lacked and indian navy have more destroyers destroyers are heavy and better equiped than frigates


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## liberalindian8

hasnain0099 said:


>



Is this an english website or udru one?


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## sparklingway

*Pakistan, China sign contract to build frigate*
Friday, July 16, 2010

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is going to enter the realm of ship-building as the country is likely to initiate the indigenous production of fast-moving platform for carrying missiles and heavy weaponry in collaboration with China, said Managing Director Karachi Shipyard Admiral Rao Iftikhar on Thursday.

Apprising the Special Committee of the Public Accounts Committee, he said the first fast attack craft was being constructed in China while another one would be built in Pakistan that would take two years. Rao Iftikhar said under the contract signed between the two countries, another two such craft would be constructed later.

The Karachi Shipyard MD told the committee that the shipyard has earned a profit of Rs 400 million. Rao Iftikhar said Pakistan had also signed a 20-year agreement with China for up-gradation of installations of naval forces.

*Pakistan to produce fast attack Naval warships*

M. Naeem

Islamabad&#8212;Pakistan is going to enter in the realm of shipbuilding as the country is likely to initiate the indigenous production of fast-moving platform for carrying missiles and heavy weaponry, in collaboration with Peoples Republic of China, said Managing Director Karachi Shipyard Admiral Rao Iftikhar on Thursday.

Briefing the Special Committee of Public Accounts Committee, the Managing Director said first fast attack craft is being constructed in China while another one would be built in Pakistan that would take two-year time, and for this purpose Karachi Shipyard company has given RS200 million. Rao Iftikhar said

under the contract signed between the two states, another two such crafts would be constructed later. &#8220;It would be a healthy addition in the naval fleet. The frigate p 22 would help the Pakistan&#8217;s naval forces to face the upcoming challenges during war times,&#8221; he said.

He told the committee that due to efficient policies and economic management the Karachi Shipyard has earned a profit worth Rs 400 million. He said Pakistan has also signed a 20-year agreement with Saudi Arabia for building shipyards: one in Jeddah and other in Dammam.&#8212;Agencies

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## SBD-3

liberalindian8 said:


> Is this an english website or udru one?



This is an Urdu Newspaper


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## SBD-3

WebMaster said:


> Can you please be a bit more clear on what FAC joint venture would be with China. Any hint on which *fast attack craft* are they talking about?



My bet is something new....probably a blend of Chinese expertise to meet PN's requirement...but interestingly what subs is he talking about....German,Chinese or more Agostas?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Good news refreshin...after a long time...
Good for our defence industry n our navy.
Pak Zindabad

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## HAIDER

BEIJING: The Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works has signed a contract with China Shipbuilding and Offshore Company (CSOC) for the construction of a 500-ton Fast Attack Craft for the Pakistan Navy.

The shipyard hopes to deepen its cooperation with the Chinese shipbuilding industry to facilitate Beijings international trade and further explore the huge Gulf market, said Managing Director Karachi Shipyard, Vice Admiral Iftikhar Rao.

We hope to establish a long-term and permanent relationship with China as well as close partnership at various levels, the China Daily quoted Rao as saying.

The shipyard, which includes commercial and military sections, can provide a wide range of services, such as logistics supply, maintenance and repair. It will be a win-win situation for Pakistan and China, he said.

There are 55 Chinese ship engineers who are working and residing at the shipyard, and they receive the best security protection, according to Rao.

We are currently building a new accommodation for Chinese workers and we are very satisfied with their performance. The new building is expected to be completed by April next year.

Published in The Express Tribune, July 28th, 2010


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## Donatello

HAIDER said:


> BEIJING: The Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works has signed a contract with China Shipbuilding and Offshore Company (CSOC) for the construction of a 500-ton Fast Attack Craft for the Pakistan Navy.
> 
> The shipyard hopes to deepen its cooperation with the Chinese shipbuilding industry to facilitate Beijings international trade and further explore the huge Gulf market, said Managing Director Karachi Shipyard, Vice Admiral Iftikhar Rao.
> 
> We hope to establish a long-term and permanent relationship with China as well as close partnership at various levels, the China Daily quoted Rao as saying.
> 
> The shipyard, which includes commercial and military sections, can provide a wide range of services, such as logistics supply, maintenance and repair. It will be a win-win situation for Pakistan and China, he said.
> 
> There are 55 Chinese ship engineers who are working and residing at the shipyard, and they receive the best security protection, according to Rao.
> 
> We are currently building a new accommodation for Chinese workers and we are very satisfied with their performance. The new building is expected to be completed by April next year.
> 
> Published in The Express Tribune, July 28th, 2010




Any details on the type of the craft? Like missiles etc?


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## SBD-3

ramu said:


> ??? Can't Chinese live like normally in Pakistan ??? Is it such a big security risk for them in Karachi ???



Its nothing new....considering the sensitivity of the issue and their importance...it's pretty logical...and yes they do often visit different shopping malls in Karachi....(I've seen them visiting Forum mall quite a few times now)


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*Threads merged - stick to topic please, which is not about the security of Chinese engineers*

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

penumbra said:


> Any details on the type of the craft? Like missiles etc?



The requirements in the tender (first few posts) might shed some light on that:


The ITT lists the main characteristics for the FAC as follows:

-Full load displacement of 500-600 tons
-Overall length of 60 meters (196.8ft)
-Radius of action equal to or greater than 500 nautical &#8226; miles, max speed 30 knots
-Complement of 55-60 personnel
-And fitted with the following weapon and sensor systems:
-*8 Chinese C-802A SSMs*
-*Two 25mm close range semi-automatic EO/IR AA &#8226; guns*
-*Two 12.7mm machine guns*
-Chaff and IR decoys
-Air/Surface search radar with track while scan (TWS) function
-Electro optical director and fire control radars for associated weapons
-Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) System
-Modern C3 System

Detailed main characteristics, design specifications, operational capabilities and combat capabilities are described in detail in the ITT.

http://www.amiinter.com/whatsnew/hotnews.pdf

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Do we know for certain yet which Chinese FAC this will be?


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## khurasaan1

Alhamdolillah PN is setting its sails on TRACK....


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Do we know for certain yet which Chinese FAC this will be?



I guess this was speculated upon earlier when the tender was announced:

Type 037-II (Houjian Class) Missile Corvette - SinoDefence.com


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## Nahraf

> Pakistan is going to enter in the realm of shipbuilding



Pakistan is in the "realm" of shipbuilding since 1960s. Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works Limited (KSEW) is building ships for more than four decades.


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## Arsalan

500 ton displacement is quite heavy for a FAC. if indeed PN opts for the a boat in this class, they must atleast incorporate some CIWS or some point defence SAM system to protect it from airborne threats. this would be a good addition.
a low mantainance boat with eight leathal C802 missile, CIWS and some sort of surface to air missile. that is good lo of fire power.

with no real AAW frigates, PN must look to include anit-air point defence systems to most of there equipment.

regards!

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## applesauce

arsalanaslam123 said:


> 500 ton displacement is quite heavy for a FAC. if indeed PN opts for the a boat in this class, they must atleast incorporate some CIWS or some point defence SAM system to protect it from airborne threats. this would be a good addition.
> a low mantainance boat with eight leathal C802 missile, CIWS and some sort of surface to air missile. that is good lo of fire power.
> 
> with no real AAW frigates, PN must look to include anit-air point defence systems to most of there equipment.
> 
> regards!



your asking for quite a bit from a small ship,
CIWS(type 630 or type 730), SAM system, low cost, low maintenance, 8 802s, and all associated sensors.

it might be doable but i dont know about the cost factor here. what do you consider "low" in terms of cost and maintenance?


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## jamal18

No matter how small or cheap, the ship has to have 'survivability'. CIWS has to be essential. And manpad would be nice.


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## Penguin

arsalanaslam123 said:


> 500 ton displacement is quite heavy for a FAC. if indeed PN opts for the a boat in this class, they must atleast incorporate some CIWS or some point defence SAM system to protect it from airborne threats. this would be a good addition.
> a low mantainance boat with eight leathal C802 missile, CIWS and some sort of surface to air missile. that is good lo of fire power.
> 
> with no real AAW frigates, PN must look to include anit-air point defence systems to most of there equipment.
> 
> regards!



Nah, 500 tons or there abouts is more common for modern FAC's then youe thinke.g. Turkey's K&#305;l&#305;ç class, Greece's Roussen Class, Sweden Visby. Singapore's Fearless and Victory classes, China's Type 037-1G / Houxin class etc


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## Penguin

applesauce said:


> your asking for quite a bit from a small ship,
> CIWS(type 630 or type 730), SAM system, low cost, low maintenance, 8 802s, and all associated sensors.
> 
> it might be doable but i dont know about the cost factor here. what do you consider "low" in terms of cost and maintenance?



Assuming a chinese design, armament of 1x 76mm, 1x Type 730 CIWS (or else a twin 35mm/37mm) plus 1x FL3000 SAM and 2x4 SSM might well be feasible.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

So penguin wat do u think its gonna be? the chinese type 037-1G?, european or some JV?


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## lcloo

CIWS and Chaff Decoy launchers are a must in today's small vessels like FAC. Experience in US- Libya conflict, US-Iran and falkland war showed that small ships (FAC and landing ships - Bristish HMS Sir Lancelot) are vulnerable to air attacks, those that have no CIWS and chaff decoy suffered most heavily.

Ship to ship battles are not common nowadays and small ships usually lose to bigger ships due to the limitation of the range of their sensors. However a data-link onboard that get real time information from AWAC or larger ships can tilt the advantage to the FAC

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## canadakz

stongpa said:


> Interesting chinese video showing the interior of a Chinese type 071 (Kunlun) amphibious warfare ship
> 
> those sailors can play basketball in there, and there is a great gym!
> 
> type 071 998 amphibious warfare ship



what does type 071 has to do with FAC, type 071 is a 20,000 tone ship while FAC are generally below 1000 tone.


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## khurasaan1

arsalanaslam123 said:


> 500 ton displacement is quite heavy for a FAC. if indeed PN opts for the a boat in this class, they must atleast incorporate some CIWS or some point defence SAM system to protect it from airborne threats. this would be a good addition.
> a low mantainance boat with eight leathal C802 missile, CIWS and some sort of surface to air missile. that is good lo of fire power.
> 
> with no real AAW frigates, PN must look to include anit-air point defence systems to most of there equipment.
> 
> regards!



I guess ure absolutely right about the air threat concern for the ship ..that is very important factor..or I might add one additional thing for introducing anti submarine system as well...this will make the ship a very lethal platform in all scenarios....There is one another thing left , pak should study; another feature ...like Iran used for their fast attack boats ..that can evade radars...(if possible)..
hope that it might be a very lethal boat..Inshallah
just my 2 cents bro....


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## Penguin

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> So penguin wat do u think its gonna be? the chinese type 037-1G?, european or some JV?


The RFP states 8 C802 SSM plus 2x 25mm cannon. That's essentially along the lines of the old OSA1 (4 SSM + 2 twin 25mm) and the SSM requirement in particular limits which designs might be suitable.

See post 24 or http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/52473-chinese-firm-selected-500-ton-fac-2.html#post807008.
Karachi shipyard offers Jalalat class and a development thereof, the MultiPurpose Auziliary Craft. These roughly fit the armament package of the RFP but are smaller (200-250 tons)

So, I'm thinking a version of the vessel developed and built with Chinese assistance by ECRN in Mers-el-Kebir for the Algerian navy, the Djebel Chenoua class (a derivative/cousin of China's Houjian class).










Big pic #1
Big pic #2
Big pic #3

As for a possible 25mm gun mounting, there is a new Chinese mount out. See here.

Of course, on the Djebel, one could see a 76mm and a 7-barrel 30mm gatling mount as on F22P be used. A pair of the 25mm mount would then be a good supplement, rather than the main gun armament. Alternatively though, it could fit a single 25mm front and rear (on an extended rear superstructure) and mount 4x2 C802 SSM.

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## Super Falcon

these FAC how much going to cost pakistan and i think this for pakistan naval marines if im not wrong


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## Penguin

Super Falcon said:


> these FAC how much going to cost pakistan and i think this for pakistan naval marines if im not wrong



[reposted from p2 in this thread]


> Vessel Type: Fast Attack Craft (FAC)
> Country: Egypt
> Program: Fast Missile Craft (FMC)
> Total Number: 4
> Unit Cost (US$): 101.5M (Est.)
> Builder: Halter Marine.



[added]



> Guided Missile Combatants Fast Missile Craft (FMC)
> 4 Ambassador MK III class [2][3]
> A new $ 642 million contract have been made in 29 September 2008 for the sale of 3 new fast missile combatants. In March 2010 a 4th ship has been agreed upon, raising the worth of the deal to $ 807 million. The ships will be armed with surface-to-air and surface-to-surface harpoon missiles. The first ship is to be completed in 2012, and the forth vessel should be done by the end of 2013.[4]


Egyptian Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(nb: this $807 million amount probably includes not just the ships, but likely also a training, technical support, ammunitions/ordnance package)

More info: Ambassador MK III Missile Boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Egypt - Future Fast Missile Craft (FAC)

The layout of this ship is very similar to the Greek Roussen class (62m Super Vita), which I presume to cost a similar amount (THere are different quotes out there suggesting each of the Super Vita facm costs 100-150 million euros). 

These vessel would be top of the line so consider their cost to be the upper boundary.



> The Greek ministry of defense has been reviewing bids for the program and is dissatisfied with them. The ministry's latest proposal in October was for the firms Elefsis and Vosper Thornycroft to drop the cost of their proposed designs by $100 million to $120 million, which is a challenge given the risk associated with new design and systems integration.


Sea Power, February 2004 (via Greek Turkish Forum Home -> More Super Vita)


> NEORION Holdings S.A. Subsidiary Signs Business Deal
> Friday, 26 Sep 2008
> NEORION Holdings S.A. announced that its subsidiary, Naval and Industrial Enterprises Elefsinas S.A., has signed an agreement with Hellenic Ministry of Defense for the supply of two additional fast attack missile boats of the SUPER VITA class for EUR 299 million.


Key Developments-Neorion Holding SA Company Historical Developments


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## GUNNER

Deputy Chief of Naval Stafff Shafqat Javed has said that *Chinese Navy will take part in naval exercises during March with the Pakistan Navy*. 


Speaking to media here on Monday, the Deputy Naval Chief informed that *China will also provide Pakistan Navy with radar control guns for its air defense.*

*He also informed that China had agreed to provide PN with two missile boats.* 

*One of these boats will be made in Pakistan*, the Deputy Chief of Naval Stafff Shafqat Javed said.

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## Penguin

GUNNER said:


> Deputy Chief of Naval Stafff Shafqat Javed has said that *Chinese Navy will take part in naval exercises during March with the Pakistan Navy*.
> 
> 
> Speaking to media here on Monday, the Deputy Naval Chief informed that *China will also provide Pakistan Navy with radar control guns for its air defense.*
> 
> *He also informed that China had agreed to provide PN with two missile boats.*
> 
> *One of these boats will be made in Pakistan*, the Deputy Chief of Naval Stafff Shafqat Javed said.



There is an old thread on this somewhere on the board (with speculations about the specific type and dimentions), maybe we should integrate this news with that.


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## S.U.R.B.

Looks like we are talking about Houbei class (Type 022).And it's under ToT.

Some images.

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## Mercenary

Damn, looks pretty bad ***....

Pakistan would need atleast 20-30 of these boats to defend Karachi from Indian Naval Blockade


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## Yeti

They look kinda kick *** nice paint jobs too


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## monitor

if it really going to be hobei class then good news for pakistan navy .


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## TOPGUN

Well good news lets see if this is indeed the type which we will get .


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## Penguin

See these earlier threads:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/52473-chinese-firm-selected-500-ton-fac.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/52473-pakistan-issues-tenders-two-500-ton-fac.html

The Type 022 is 40m in length, 12m in beam, and 1.5m in draught. The vessel has a full displacement of 220 tonnes. The propulsion includes two diesels rated at 6,865hp and two water jets, giving a maximum speed of 36 knots. The vessel is operated by 12~14 crew.

Tender for Two 500-Ton FAC for Pakistani Navy.

The ITT lists the main characteristics for the FAC as follows:
-Full load displacement of 500-600 tons
-Overall length of 60 meters (196.8ft)
-Radius of action equal to or greater than 500 nautical &#8226; miles, max speed 30 knots
-Complement of 55-60 personnel 
-And fitted with the following weapon and sensor systems:
-8 Chinese C-802A SSMs
-Two 25mm close range semi-automatic EO/IR AA &#8226; guns
-Two 12.7mm machine guns
-Chaff and IR decoys
-Air/Surface search radar with track while scan (TWS) function
-Electro optical director and fire control radars for associated weapons
-Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) System
-Modern C3 System

Which means on tonnage alone it will not be the Type 022 craft/ Rather, it would be something bigger, probably along the lines of the Chinese Type 037-II

Type 037-II 
# Displacement: 520 ton
# Length: 65.4 m
# Beam: 8.4 m
# Draft: 2.4 m
# Speed: 32 kt
# Range: 1,800 nm @ 18 kt
# Propulsion: 2xSEMT-Pielstick 12 PA6 280 diesel engines @ 1,584 hp with 3 shafts
# Complement: 75
# Armament:
* Anti-ship missiles: 6 C-801/802/803
* Guns: 2 Type 76A 37 mm (II x 1) and 2 AK-230

The Pakistan Navy's Karachi Shipyard advertises the Fast Attack Craft variant of the Liman el Hadrami (P601) class of Mauritania Navy. This chinese designed and built ship was donated by the China Government and is currently the largest ship in the navy of Mauritania. See: http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/52473-chinese-firm-selected-500-ton-fac-2.html#post807008


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## wali87

so what role does a missile boat perform in wartime? and how effective is it?


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## Penguin

wali87 said:


> so what role does a missile boat perform in wartime? and how effective is it?



*missile* boat > it shoots anti-ship missiles, mainly.

Ineffective against a major modern navy, effective against large surface ships not equipped with adequate anti-missile defences.

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## Markus

Awesome looking boats!


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## misterme2

The type 022is old news. It is a very effective platform. I 've been screaming the top of my lungs to get or design such a boat for IN but no luck. Even this boat would be a great asset to the coastguard because it is very fast and maneuverable, at the same time you could switch the weapons platform depending on the role it serves.


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## TrMhMt

These toys seems cool !!!


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

S.U.R.B. said:


> Looks like we are talking about Houbei class (Type 022).And it's under ToT.
> 
> Some images.





Oh man these ship make my head dizzy its the pattern on the ships its so hard to see them when at sea - wonderful addition


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## IceCold

Ishan said:


> These Gun Boats wud be Very Much in Pieces in Front of Indian Navy's Modern Surface Fleet



Yes i'm sure they would be a target practice for the Indian navy.


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## S.U.R.B.

And what's the opinion if they got the Type 037-II .
Now i guess someone will say these will pose an even bigger target... Easy to hit.












No No i'm not joking ,520 ton displacement they can go for it.

The vessel is armed with six YingJi-8 anti-ship missiles (two groups, each with three launchers), which use active radar homing and is powered by a turbojet (with a solid rocket booster). The anti-ship missile has a range of 80~120km and approaches the target in sea skimming mode at a speed of 0.9 Mach. The 165kg shaped charge warhead has time delayed impact proximity fuses.
Guns: 2 Type 76A 37 mm (II x 1) and 2 AK-230
Also got a sophisticated C3I system.






And the Houbei class

*Anti-ship missiles*: 8 C-801/802/803 in friction stir welded aluminium missile launch containers or
* Land-attack missiles*: 8 Hongniao missile-2 long range land attack cruise missiles.
*Surface-to-air missiles*: FLS-1 surface-to-air launcher with 12 QW class MANPAD missiles
1 &#215; licensed copy of KBP AO-18 6-barrel 30 mm gun (AK-630) by ZEERI

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## Haseebullah

Ishan said:


> These Gun Boats wud be Very Much in Pieces in Front of Indian Navy's Modern Surface Fleet



if you think that PN would be fighting the whole war with this than you are wrong,cause for that we have this:
Frigates
F-22P Zulfiquar class
F-251 PNS Zulfiqar
F-252 PNS Shamsheer
F-253 PNS Saif
F-254 (under construction & expected to be delivered in 2012/2013)


PNS Zulfiquar delivered August 2009
PNS Shamsheer delivered December, 2009
PNS Saif is delivered to Pak Navy on 15 Sep 2010 and commioned on 11/11/2010.

Tariq class
F181 PNS Tariq
F182 PNS Babur
F183 PNS Khaibar
F184 PNS Badr
F185 PNS Shah Jahan
F186 PNS Tippu Sultan 6


MRTP-33

* PNS Zarrar
* PNS Karrar
MRTP-15

* P01 PNS ?
* P02 PNS ?
Agosta 90B class submarine

* PNS/M Khalid
* PNS/M Saad
* PNS/M Hamza

2 Agosta 70

* PNS/M Hasmat
* PNS/M Hurmat

PNS Alamgir 1
2010
1 acquired in Aug, 2010.[35]

for more info on how PN can beat the sh*t outta you refer to this:Pakistan Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## SQ8

Ishan said:


> These Gun Boats wud be Very Much in Pieces in Front of Indian Navy's Modern Surface Fleet



Yes Im sure..
after all.. the idea of littoral warfare is beyond you.
The fact that such craft are excellent hit and run combatants..
That they use the coastal areas effectively to deny the enemy early detection..
Beyond you.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*Threads merged*


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## Myth_buster_1

S.U.R.B. said:


> And what's the opinion if they got the Type 037-II .
> Now i guess someone will say these will pose an even bigger target... Easy to hit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No No i'm not joking ,520 ton displacement they can go for it.
> 
> The vessel is armed with six YingJi-8 anti-ship missiles (two groups, each with three launchers), which use active radar homing and is powered by a turbojet (with a solid rocket booster). The anti-ship missile has a range of 80~120km and approaches the target in sea skimming mode at a speed of 0.9 Mach. The 165kg shaped charge warhead has time delayed impact proximity fuses.
> Guns: 2 Type 76A 37 mm (II x 1) and 2 AK-230
> Also got a sophisticated C3I system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Houbei class
> 
> *Anti-ship missiles*: 8 C-801/802/803 in friction stir welded aluminium missile launch containers or
> * Land-attack missiles*: 8 Hongniao missile-2 long range land attack cruise missiles.
> *Surface-to-air missiles*: FLS-1 surface-to-air launcher with 12 QW class MANPAD missiles
> 1 × licensed copy of KBP AO-18 6-barrel 30 mm gun (AK-630) by ZEERI



I am expecting few structural and system changes like in the case of F-22P.


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## Jigs

Looks good a cost effective alternative to the Milgem for littoral operations. Does it have ASW capability or is it surface attack specific ?


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## F-16_Falcon

any image of the ship?

---------- Post added at 07:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 AM ----------




santro said:


> Yes Im sure..
> after all.. the idea of littoral warfare is beyond you.
> The fact that such craft are excellent hit and run combatants..
> That they use the coastal areas effectively to deny the enemy early detection..
> Beyond you.



what is littoral warfare?  never heard of it. how will it help against indians?


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## satishkumarcsc

F-16_Falcon said:


> any image of the ship?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 07:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> what is littoral warfare?  never heard of it. how will it help against indians?



Littoral warfare is also called as costal defence and brown water tactics.These boats lack the range and are usually small hit-and-run ships. These boats must not be underestimated as they carry a lot of fire power. These are usually used to protect the coastline from landing ships and also from the surface ships to get close.

These are usually boats used against surface fleet. There is minimal ASW capability in these boats.

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## S.U.R.B.

Jigs said:


> Looks good a cost effective alternative to the Milgem for littoral operations. Does it have ASW capability or is it surface attack specific ?



It's a missile boat :no torpedoes or ASW rockets.

Read this:

Naval Institute Guide to Combat ... - Google Books

The pics posted above is of 771 (and a model of 772).....and 770 to 773 were based at hongkong.

First batch was of 6 Type 037-II (from 770 to 775).
The next one which we are getting will be more formidable and it starts after 776.
Modifications are
New Russian gunmount,Radar fire control system and defensive armaments.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Jigs said:


> Looks good a* cost effective alternative to the Milgem for littoral operations*. Does it have ASW capability or is it surface attack specific ?



Its not an alternative to anything.


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## S.U.R.B.

F-16_Falcon said:


> any image of the ship?



Here, enjoy......both ship and hongkong.

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## F-16_Falcon

S.U.R.B. said:


> Here, enjoy......both ship and hongkong.



thank you. good ship.


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## houshanghai

Type 022 (Houbei Class) Fast Attack Missile Craft

YouTube - Type 022 (Houbei Class) Fast Attack Missile Craft

Type 037-II (Houjian Class) Missile Corvette in hongkong

YouTube - Type 037-II (Houjian Class) Missile Corvette in hongkong


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## S.U.R.B.

houshanghai said:


> Type 022 (Houbei Class) Fast Attack Missile Craft
> 
> YouTube - Type 022 (Houbei Class) Fast Attack Missile Craft




Somebody please post the translation of this first video aswell.I want to know what's she saying about it.


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## houshanghai

S.U.R.B. said:


> Somebody please post the translation of this first video aswell.I want to know what's she saying about it.


she talk some offcial nosence &#12290;actually&#65292;these boats have tested in successful and have served in navy


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## Aamir Hussain

If the primary mission is to deny enemy combatants coming close to our ports and launch missile raids on merchant vessels on the approaches to our ports than we do not need a 500 ton FAC. What is required is an MRP-33 type of platform.

However, I believe the role envisaged for the 500 ton boat is a combined FAC/Patrol/fisheries Protection vessel.

My 2C worth


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## TaimiKhan

Aamir Hussain said:


> If the primary mission is to deny enemy combatants coming close to our ports and launch missile raids on merchant vessels on the approaches to our ports than we do not need a 500 ton FAC. What is required is an MRP-33 type of platform.
> 
> However, I believe the role envisaged for the 500 ton boat is a combined FAC/Patrol/fisheries Protection vessel.
> 
> My 2C worth



500 ton FAC has its own usefulness, but for good hit and run tactics so that enemy ships can be threatened and kept away, Type-022 FAC are a very good option, they are stealth, low visibility on radars, can sneak near to big ships, can be data linked with aerial or other long range radar based platform and fire their missiles on the enemy ships and make a run, such tactics will keep the enemy ships on the alert and hopefully away from targets as they know there is a small stealth ship with us which can move near them and fire its missiles. 

I would go with atleast 10-12 or more of these 220 ton crafts as they can be good defensive ships for PN.

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## Aslan

TaimiKhan said:


> 500 ton FAC has its own usefulness, but for good hit and run tactics so that enemy ships can be threatened and kept away, Type-022 FAC are a very good option, they are stealth, low visibility on radars, can sneak near to big ships, can be data linked with aerial or other long range radar based platform and fire their missiles on the enemy ships and make a run, such tactics will keep the enemy ships on the alert and hopefully away from targets as they know there is a small stealth ship with us which can move near them and fire its missiles.
> 
> I would go with atleast 10-12 or more of these 220 ton crafts as they can be good defensive ships for PN.



But how much of a damage are they capable of inflicting on the bigger ships when the other ships are heavy on anti missile systems.


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## TaimiKhan

khalidali said:


> But how much of a damage are they capable of inflicting on the bigger ships when the other ships are heavy on anti missile systems.



Well these Type 022 can carry 8 C-802/803 AShMs in its arsenal, same number which the F-22Ps can carry, thus they have the same firepower with respect to F-22Ps when it comes to anti ship missiles and same chance of hitting the target. 

With good anti-missile defence system on ships, I only see a good chance of hitting the enemy ships with a mass attack strategy, meaning 3-4 missiles coming at the same time towards the target, thus giving good chance that 1 or 2 may skip the anti missile defences of the ship and hit its target, single missile would have very low chance of hitting its target as it can be easily taken down. 

So the C-802/803 type of missiles should have good speed, possibly around Mach 2 or more in its final phase of attack, low terrain capability, less RCS and 3-4 or more missiles attacking a single target at the same time, then good chance of damaging or sinking the target. Here these smaller FAC boats can be useful, they can launch a heavy fire of multiple missiles, can have platforms to be loaded out at sea or can be easily loaded at shore bases and then head back and the loss of such a small FAC would not dealt a big blow to our defensive force, thus due to its usefulness, cost we can employ more of them and cover more area and harass the enemy much more compared to larger frigates, which would be easy targets and if sunk or damaged, can be a moral buster. 

15-20 of these smaller FACs are a very good force and used as offensive weapons, data linked with frigates or AEW&C / fighter platforms. 

And these C-802/803s can be pretty deadly missiles, if not sunk its target, can surely damage it enough to be taken out of the war.

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## Donatello

TaimiKhan said:


> 500 ton FAC has its own usefulness, but for good hit and run tactics so that enemy ships can be threatened and kept away, Type-022 FAC are a very good option, they are stealth, low visibility on radars, can sneak near to big ships, can be data linked with aerial or other long range radar based platform and fire their missiles on the enemy ships and make a run, such tactics will keep the enemy ships on the alert and hopefully away from targets as they know there is a small stealth ship with us which can move near them and fire its missiles.
> 
> *I would go with atleast 10-12 or more of these *220 ton crafts as they can be good defensive ships for PN.





Haha,

Sir, you can go with 100 of these 

.........but PN has to keep the budget in mind, when running and maintaining 10 of these may equal a modern frigate or two, so they have to gamble with what combination would be better.


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## niaz

FAC at 500-ton is rather large and should logically be considered a small Corvette. IMO PN selection of 500 ton vessels is ideal for Pakistan. 

Such a vessel would have sufficient range to patrol our entire economic zone and large enough to have room for an anti Submarine helo in addition to a couple anti-ship missiles launchers and cannon for defense against the ships. 

Additionally, once we have gained the capability of building the basic hull ourselves; we can build more hulls and convert the same to either primary anti submarine or anti aircraft Corvettes. Given Indias large sub surface fleet, PN is desperately short of Anti Sub frigates.


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## Mani2020

> *khalidali*
> But how much of a damage are they capable of inflicting on the bigger ships when the other ships are heavy on anti missile systems.






TaimiKhan said:


> Well these Type 022 can carry 8 C-802/803 AShMs in its arsenal, same number which the F-22Ps can carry, thus they have the same firepower with respect to F-22Ps when it comes to anti ship missiles and same chance of hitting the target.
> 
> With good anti-missile defence system on ships, I only see a good chance of hitting the enemy ships with a mass attack strategy, meaning 3-4 missiles coming at the same time towards the target, thus giving good chance that 1 or 2 may skip the anti missile defences of the ship and hit its target, single missile would have very low chance of hitting its target as it can be easily taken down.
> 
> So the C-802/803 type of missiles should have good speed, possibly around Mach 2 or more in its final phase of attack, low terrain capability, less RCS and 3-4 or more missiles attacking a single target at the same time, then good chance of damaging or sinking the target. Here these smaller FAC boats can be useful, they can launch a heavy fire of multiple missiles, can have platforms to be loaded out at sea or can be easily loaded at shore bases and then head back and the loss of such a small FAC would not dealt a big blow to our defensive force, thus due to its usefulness, cost we can employ more of them and cover more area and harass the enemy much more compared to larger frigates, which would be easy targets and if sunk or damaged, can be a moral buster.
> 
> 15-20 of these smaller FACs are a very good force and used as offensive weapons, data linked with frigates or AEW&C / fighter platforms.
> 
> And these C-802/803s can be pretty deadly missiles, if not sunk its target, can surely damage it enough to be taken out of the war.



Apart from 8 C801/C802/C803 it can carry 8 land attack missiles,2 long range cruise missiles,1 surface to air launcher with 12 MANPAD missiles and 1 30mm Gun.its a very good fire power considering its size and displacement


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## Aslan

Mani2020 said:


> Apart from 8 C801/C802/C803 it can carry *8 land attack missiles*,2 long range cruise missiles,1 surface to air launcher with 12 MANPAD missiles and 1 30mm Gun.its a very good fire power considering its size and displacement



But then some one had mentioned previously that these boats cant venture far away, so wont that make the land attack missiles useless in a way.


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## S.U.R.B.

This is going to boast the defensive capabilities to a new level.These have to be in close proximity to their mother ships.And when alone the swarm tactics comes into play.Engaging and giving time to nearing subs to surprise the advancing fleet.
But at the same time FAC can be a sitting duck for aviation assets with out long range SAMs.Any attack will be an action packed episode.


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## TaimiKhan

penumbra said:


> Haha,
> 
> Sir, you can go with 100 of these
> 
> .........but PN has to keep the budget in mind, when running and maintaining 10 of these may equal a modern frigate or two, so they have to gamble with what combination would be better.



Well loss of one frigate would be a huge blow compared to loosing even 2 or 3 of these smaller FACs and these smaller ones can cover more area if supported by a larger vessel giving them targets. 

And budget wise also they would be economical as even if you have 20 of these, not all are gonna be at sea at the same time during peace time, thus operational costs would be and could be kept low. And since they are from China, hopefully the spare parts would be less costly and sanction proof also and we can even get local production of most used spare parts, if we maintain a larger fleet. 

I am not saying that we go for all of these FACs, we should have a combination, hi & low, heavy surface vessels having good SAM & anti-Submarine capability, long range surface search radars, complemented with these smaller FACs which can fire its missiles by getting the data from the larger vessels. 

8-12 frigates with SAM + anti-sub coverage, 20-25 FACs, 10-15 subs can be a good defensive combination and hopefully within budget and operational budget too, as not everything is operational or out in the sea at one given time.


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## Mani2020

khalidali said:


> But then some one had mentioned previously that these boats cant venture far away, so wont that make the land attack missiles useless in a way.



it has lot to do with the range of the Land attack missile .For example the current land attack missile operational on PLAN Type-022 is Hongniao series LACM which has a range of 600-3000 km and thats enough to target your enemy territory

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## Aslan

Mani2020 said:


> it has lot to do with the range of the Land attack missile .For example the current land attack missile operational on PLAN Type-022 is Hongniao series LACM which has a range of 600-3000 km and thats enough to target your enemy territory




So the PN really dont have to get close to the ports of Gujrat or Bombay to make a diff, in case of a war. (Used just as an example so no need to take it seriously and troll! Thanks)


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## Mani2020

khalidali said:


> So the PN really dont have to get close to the ports of Gujrat or Bombay to make a diff, in case of a war. (Used just as an example so no need to take it seriously and troll! Thanks)



Yes

lol i was trying to explain same thing in my above post by taking same examples but refrained myself because of a possible troll attack


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## Aamir Hussain

I suppose these vessels are equipped with anti submarine weapon systems.

IMHO -- a 500 ton vessel is not ideal for hit and run kind of missions but more of EEC patrolling and fisheries protection with added firepower for patrolling near the Hurmuz Straits -- yes I am looking westward specially when India is making inroads into Iran. 

This dove tails with your thought on lack of frigates in PN. THX


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## S.U.R.B.

Aamir Hussain said:


> *I suppose these vessels are equipped with anti submarine weapon systems.*
> 
> IMHO -- a 500 ton vessel is not ideal for hit and run kind of missions but more of EEC patrolling and fisheries protection with added firepower for patrolling near the Hurmuz Straits -- yes I am looking westward specially when India is making inroads into Iran.
> 
> This dove tails with your thought on lack of frigates in PN. THX



Those are the Type-037I (Haijiu class) subchasers.

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## S.U.R.B.

Growler said:


> I am expecting few structural and system changes like in the case of F-22P.



Things that are expected here are the Type 037-II getting FL-2000 SAM system and AK-176 as new armaments.


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## wangrong

AK-176


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## IceCold

I would say forget the 500 ton fac, we need to concentrate on this beauty:






PN lacks modern surface fleet and at a time when gawadar is getting active, the responsibilities would only increase protecting two ports against a possible blockade.


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## S.U.R.B.

IceCold said:


> I would say forget the 500 ton fac, we need to concentrate on this beauty:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PN lacks modern surface fleet and at a time when gawadar is getting active, the responsibilities would only increase protecting two ports against a possible blockade.


Image is not visible to me but from the link says it's type-054 jiangkai.Some thoughts about why there is a need of FACs here.
*1.* Large ships are at risk from small attack craft using swarm tactics.You keep the idea of Saturation attacks in mind.
* 2. *Small ones like these 500t can increase the size of the Navy quickly and at less cost than bigger and naturally more expensive large combatants.
*3.* The small size of the crafts makes it naturally stealthy(if you see Type 022 ,the design and even some work on the glass pans the RCS reducing saw-tooth edges,the best stealth design out there) while the greater the size of a ship presents a greater target.
Note:Only disadvange here is their vulnerablity to helis and Aerial assests and i think they are going for type 037II is that Type-022 has a limited arc of fire and it lacks any air-defences at the rear.
*4 *Our Naval fleet will run out of frigades long before the enemy runs out of missiles and torpedoes.A supporting part these vessels play can't be matched.
*5.* Large ships are harder to maneuver in shallow seas, and their deep draft make them vulnerable to &#8220;grounding&#8221;.


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## IceCold

S.U.R.B. said:


> Image is not visible to me but from the link says it's type-054 jiangkai.Some thoughts about why there is a need of FACs here.
> *1.* Large ships are at risk from small attack craft using swarm tactics.You keep the idea of Saturation attacks in mind.
> * 2. *Small ones like these 500t can increase the size of the Navy quickly and at less cost than bigger and naturally more expensive large combatants.
> *3.* The small size of the crafts makes it naturally stealthy(if you see Type 022 ,the design and even some work on the glass pans the RCS reducing saw-tooth edges,the best stealth design out there) while the greater the size of a ship presents a greater target.
> Note:Only disadvange here is their vulnerablity to helis and Aerial assests and i think they are going for type 037II is that Type-022 has a limited arc of fire and it lacks any air-defences at the rear.
> *4 *Our Naval fleet will run out of frigades long before the enemy runs out of missiles and torpedoes.A supporting part these vessels play can't be matched.
> *5.* Large ships are harder to maneuver in shallow seas, and their deep draft make them vulnerable to grounding.



Yes its a type 054-a, the latest in the Chinese arsenal of frigates. I know fAC have its own importance, reason for my post was to make a point, PN is seriously in shot of modern surface fleet. Given the responsibility that lies on her shoulder, a few modern frigates of the class of type -054 A wont hurt.


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## Areesh

IceCold said:


> Yes its a type 054-a, the latest in the Chinese arsenal of frigates. I know fAC have its own importance, reason for my post was to make a point, PN is seriously in shot of modern surface fleet. Given the responsibility that lies on her shoulder, a few modern frigates of the class of type -054 A wont hurt.



PN chief has already made it clear that PN would go for upgraded F22P instead of Type054 frigates.


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## Donatello

IceCold said:


> I would say forget the 500 ton fac, we need to concentrate on this beauty:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PN lacks modern surface fleet and at a time when gawadar is getting active, the responsibilities would only increase protecting two ports against a possible blockade.





Gwader is too west of India, our primary concern.

US fleet is already there, and any Indian activity there must pass from near Karachi, so as long as we can deny them west, Gwader should be fine.

But yes, a bigger surface fleet is really needed.


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## Donatello

Areesh said:


> PN chief has already made it clear that PN would go for upgraded F22P instead of Type054 frigates.



I think that would be useless, as F-22 was supposed to be already upgraded version. Doesn't make sense to get upgraded upgraded assets.

I mean, he said that now we are looking at more than 3000 ton class ships. Maybe destroyers or frigates, or maybe a hybrid.

But Type 54 seems an awesome piece of equipment for area defence.

Type 054 with F-22 and OHPs, will augment our navy.

We need more Sub surface vessels as well.

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## Penguin

penumbra said:


> I think that would be useless, as F-22 was supposed to be already upgraded version. Doesn't make sense to get upgraded upgraded assets.
> 
> I mean, he said that now we are looking at more than 3000 ton class ships. Maybe destroyers or frigates, or maybe a hybrid.
> 
> But Type 54 seems an awesome piece of equipment for area defence.
> 
> Type 054 with F-22 and OHPs, will augment our navy.
> 
> We need more Sub surface vessels as well.



No, while F22P is a development from the Type 053H3 (Jiangwei 2), on which it is based, it is a fresh, new design. There is plenty of room for improvement by design (for additional ships) as well as for upgrading (for existing ships) i.e. by installation of a VL SAM (e.g. Umkhonto IIR) and other weapons (e.g. Harpoon, Oto 76mm Strales = Super Rapid naval gun with Davide round, Swedish ASW torpedoes) and sensors and a different combat management system.

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## Stealth_fighter

which1 PN getting?type-022 or type-037?


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## fatman17

ASIA PACIFIC 
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2010 


Jane's Defence Weekly 


*China to sell Pakistan missile boats*

Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent -Islamabad

China has signed a contract with the Pakistan Navy (PN) to provide it with two missile boats, according to a senior PN officer, in the latest evidence of Beijing's growing role in providing hardware to the navy. 

"We have recently signed a contract with China for the supply of two missile boats of 500 tonnes each," Rear Admiral Shafqat Javed, the PN's deputy chief of staff, said in a television interview on 13 December. "One of these boats will be manufactured in China while the other will be made in Pakistan." 

Adm Javed added that the boats would be equipped "with radar-controlled guns", without elaborating. A senior PN officer told Jane's the contract is evidence of "growing links" between the PN and China. 

China has an ongoing contract for the supply of four new F-22P frigates.

Pakistani government officials have said the country may also opt to buy Chinese-built naval vessels in excess of 4,000 tonnes. Though the financial terms of defence contracts between the two countries are not published, Jane's understands that the four frigates - along with a squadron of helicopters - will cost USD700 million. 

Earlier this year a senior Pakistani government official said the PN had begun mulling the purchase of submarines from China after concluding that purchases from a Western source, notably Germany, would cost too much. 

In the late 1990s Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KS&EW) built the Jalalat and Shujaat with Chinese assistance, while in February 2006 the PN commissioned two new fast attack craft, constructed locally by KS&EW with technical support from Marsun shipyard in Thailand based on a modified German design.

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## Areesh

Stealth_fighter said:


> which1 PN getting?type-022 or type-037?



Looking at the displacement mentioned in the news it would most probably be Type-037 FAC. But they haven't mentioned the type of FAC's PN is going to procure.


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## fatman17

Areesh said:


> Looking at the displacement mentioned in the news it would most probably be Type-037 FAC. But they haven't mentioned the type of FAC's PN is going to procure.



does 037FAC have 'radar controlled guns'??


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## Penguin

fatman17 said:


> does 037FAC have 'radar controlled guns'??



"The Type 037-II is the first missile corvette in service with the PLA Navy to be equipped with a sophisticated C3I system. ... The ship is fitted with a Type 352E ' Square Tie' I-band radar for surface search and anti-ship missile targeting; and a Type 347G 'Rice Lamp' I-band radar for AAA fire-control. The two Type 69A dual-30mm AAA guns are directed by a Type 88C optronic director."

Type 037-II (Houjian Class) Missile Corvette - SinoDefence.com

As is quite common e.g. on Russian FAC's and missile corvette, you have 1 radar gun director for 3 guns, backed up by 1 or more optical or optronic director.

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## monitor

This corvette are 520 ton fully loaded which matches the requirement by pn and the endurance also not bad either .so i think pn mayl go for it . only thing it lacks is stealth characteristics of type 22.

Specifications

Displacement: (full load) 520t
Dimensions: Length 65.4 m; Beam 8.4m, Draft 2.35m
Propulsion: 3 X SEMT-Pielstick diesels rated at 15,840hp; three shafts
Speed: Maximum 33.5 knots; Economic: 15 knots
Range: 3,200nm @ 18 knots
Crew: 75
Radar: Type 352E Square Tie; Surface search/SSM guidance; Type 347G (EFR-1) Rice Lamp; 37mm AAA fire-control
Fire-control: Type 88C optronic directors; 30mm AAA fire-control 
Guns: 1 X Type 76A dual-37mm AAA gun, 180 rounds/min to 8.5km; weight of shell 1.42kg (or a Russian-made AK-176 single-76mm gun); 2 X Type 69 dual-30mm automatic AAA guns; 360~400 rounds/min to 4km for airborne targets
Missiles: 6 X YJ-8 anti-ship missile; active radar-homing to 150km at Mach 0.9, warhead 165kg, sea-skimming


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## Penguin

New chinese missile craft of 600 ton displacement

View attachment 8389


Pakistan Navy is siad to procure two built in China and a third built in Pakistan, with it possibly being referred to by PN as a corvette.

Bangladesh Navy has apparently ordered two to be built in China, while 5 smaller displacement craft of 250 tons being built in Bangladesh Navy's own dockyard

Specs:

1 x Chinese AK-176M 76.2 mm, 
4 x 2 C-802A anti-ship missiles, 
2 x 6-cell RDC-32 ASW rocket launchers, 
2 x 25mm cannon

View attachment 8390
View attachment 8391


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## Areesh

Penguin said:


> New chinese missile craft of 600 ton displacement
> 
> View attachment 8389
> 
> 
> Pakistan Navy is siad to procure two built in China and a third built in Pakistan, with it possibly being referred to by PN as a corvette.
> 
> Specs:
> 
> 1 x Chinese AK-176M 76.2 mm,
> 4 x 2 C-802A anti-ship missiles,
> 2 x 6-cell RDC-32 ASW rocket launchers,
> 2 x 25mm cannon
> 
> View attachment 8390
> View attachment 8391


 
Which new FAC is this one. What is the type??? Is it the same type 037-II or something different???


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## Penguin

Areesh said:


> Which new FAC is this one. What is the type??? Is it the same type 037-II or something different???


 
NEW Type i.e. NOT Type 037-II (when I find a better type indication, I'lll let you know)


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## Penguin

Apparantly the original source is from Bangladesh: 
http://www./forum/index.php?/topic/194073-pn-new-corvette/page__view__findpost__p__326413

This gives as specs:


Principal Technical Parameters (Very similar to Houjian-class)

Displacement, tons: 528 (empty)
Dimensions, meters: 58.4 X 8.2 X 4.8 (L X W X D)
Main engines: 3 diesel engines
(10,642 kW, 3 shafts)
Speed, knots: 28
Cruising range, miles: 3,000 at 14 knots
Complement: 37

Main weapon systems and electronic equipment

Missiles: 4 SSM (2 double launchers)[C-704]
Guns: 1 X 76 gun + 1 X 630 gun
EW: 1 X EW system
Radars: 1 X surface search radar
1 X navigational radar
1 X tracking radar
1 X optronic tracker
MFC: 2 sets

Possibly those are spects for the BN, not PN (compared to CGI, note: just a single instead of a pair of secondary guns, 2x2 instead of 2x4 AShM) 

The secundary guns may be stealth shielded AK630s rather than the 25mm gun that I posted pics of. Or a twin gun mount found on som PLA Army naval craft (e.g. Type 529), which mates the base of an AK630 with a twin AAA gun (either russian 23mm or indigenous 25mm development)

View attachment 8392
View attachment 8393


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## HongWu

Even the US Navy is worried about swarms of cheap Type 022 FAC against their blue water fleet. These things (and the C-803 they carry) can be devastating against something much weaker like IN.


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## Penguin

HongWu said:


> Even the US Navy is worried about swarms of cheap Type 022 FAC against their blue water fleet. These things (and the C-803 they carry) can be devastating against something much weaker like IN.


 
Type 022 isn't a 500-600 ton FAC. PN isn't looking for 'swarms'. Off topic.


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## jupiter2007

I hope it's similar to this one.


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## TOPGUN

Do we have any idea as of so far which one it will be ?


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## Areesh

TOPGUN said:


> Do we have any idea as of so far which one it will be ?


 
Types of these FAC's isn't confirm till now. We will have to wait to find out the exact type.


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## HAIDER

Beijing: China on Tuesday formally began the construction of two state-of-the-art fast attack missile crafts for the Pakistan Navy in addition to several naval frigates it is building for its close strategic partner. 

The keel-laying ceremony of Fast Attack Craft FAC(M) of Pakistan Navy was held at Xinggang Shipyard in China's Tianjin city today. 

Pakistan Navy has signed a contact with China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Company Limited (CSOC) for construction of two state-of-the-art missile crafts which will be equipped with latest weapons and sensors. 

The ceremony was attended by Vice Admiral Tanveer Faiz Ahmed of the Pakistan Navy, official Pakistan news agency APP reported. 

According to the arrangement, one craft would be built in Tianjin while the other would be constructed at PakistanÂs Karachi docks. 

The first craft was expected to join the force in October this year. There is no word about the financial arrangements for the construction of the two vessels. 

China, a major supplier of weapons systems to Pakistan, is involved in a host of defence projects with its close ally. 

These included development of new fighter jet JF-17 Thunder which is being produced in both the countries with engines supplied by Russia. 

China is also constructing a number of naval frigates for the Pakistan Navy which so far took delivery of three frigates and the fourth one is being constructed with Chinese cooperation in Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works. 

The commencement of the construction of the new missile boats followed the visit of Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee of the Pakistan Army, Gen. Khalid Shameem Wynne last week to take part in the eighth round of security dialogue between the two countries. 

The talks focussed on finalisation of new projects to expand their defence cooperation as well as steps for timely completion of ongoing projects. 

China begins construction of missile crafts for Pak Navy

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

hmm what Naval Frigates might those be ... hmmm


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## Pak_Sher

Pakistan needs to increase defence spending for the Navy and the Naval Air Command also needs to be expanded. Air Support for PN's naval assets is as important as the naval assets themselves.

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## Kompromat

Which craft is it?


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## Omar1984

THANK YOU CHINA.

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## CardSharp



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## tanlixiang28776

Don't think they are getting 022s.

something in the 750 ton range I believe.


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## CardSharp

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Don't think they are getting 022s.
> 
> something in the 750 ton range I believe.



I assumed because this website has it as front page news and shows a Houbei class.

Construction of Fast Attack Craft starts for Pakistan Navy | Pakistan Defence


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## tanlixiang28776

CardSharp said:


> I assumed because this website has it as front page news and shows a Houbei class.
> 
> Construction of Fast Attack Craft starts for Pakistan Navy | Pakistan Defence


 
Maybe they'll get both. who knows.


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## petervivian

This shipyard is building type 618B coast guard patrol vessels (standard displacement 600 tons) from last year. Search "38.992205,117.72195" in google maps/earth, and you'll see one of these vessels under construction. 

I hope the FAC design is a complete new one, rather than based upon these patrol vessels.


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## Penguin

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> hmm what Naval Frigates might those be ... hmmm


 
That yard on its website shows F22P images


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## SQ8

I believe its this one


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## CardSharp

Santro said:


> I believe its this one


 
Should change the picture of the Houbei class on the front page then.


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## arihant

blue was nice. Not sure how good in military, but that ship is really nice in design.


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## TOPGUN

Can anyone conform which of crafts are they?


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## petervivian

There is a picture in the article [1] submitted by Mr. Danyal Saleem Gilani [2], who is an officer from Pakistani Embassy in Beijing. 






An artist impression of this FAC(M) is shown on the ceremony display board, though the people foreground blocked most of the view. I hope Pakistan navy enthusiasts can get access to more photos of the ceremony. 

[1] International Tour Management Association
[2] Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China

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## CardSharp

arihant said:


> blue was nice. Not sure how good in military, but that ship is really nice in design.


 
The stupid thing about that blue camo is they made a unique pattern for every ship. Someone on the internet actually worked out how many are in service by looking at the pictures. Talk about a security fail....

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## tanlixiang28776

Super Falcon said:


> i think our defence think tank is rubbish buying this is not good enough better of getting destroyers we need big things not small shits


 
We would be happy to sell if you could afford it.

Destroyers like the type 52C cost an estimated 800 million dollars.


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## TOPGUN

I can't see no pic's in the article...


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## Penguin

Santro said:


> I believe its this one


 
That be the one I posted in the original thread on these FAC-Ms on feb 10.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/52473-chinese-firm-selected-500-ton-fac-9.html#post1474745


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## petervivian

Penguin said:


> That be the one I posted in the original thread on these FAC-Ms on feb 10.
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/52473-chinese-firm-selected-500-ton-fac-9.html#post1474745


 
This is a very feasible concept. Can you locate the source of this design?


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## Imran Khan

well i like blue camo its looking coooooooooool


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## Water Car Engineer




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## EagleEyes

Santro said:


> I believe its this one


 
You sure its this one and NOT 

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-.../s1600/Chinese+Type+022+Fast+Attack+Craft.jpg


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## Penguin

WebMaster said:


> You sure its this one and NOT
> 
> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-.../s1600/Chinese+Type+022+Fast+Attack+Craft.jpg


 
Type 022 isn't anywhere near 500-600 tons displacement (it's estimated at just 220 long tons = 224 t full load) , so it can't be that one.


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## Penguin

petervivian said:


> This is a very feasible concept. Can you locate the source of this design?


 
Working on it.

It's built by Xinggang Shipyard, Tianjin and part of China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Company Limited (CSOC) . Apparently, a variant is being made for Bangladesh navy.

http://shiprepair-xgsy.com/en/ 
http://www.csic.com.cn/en/


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## petervivian

Hi, Penguin, thanks for the links. But we can't get much information from these China shipbuilding companies' website, especially information on navy vessels. I just want to know where does the picture you first posted in the original FAC(M) thread come from.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

That looks like the glass ball in Lord of the rings soran






Secret source of power

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## F-16_Falcon

Will it carry antiship missiles?


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## tanlixiang28776

F-16_Falcon said:


> Will it carry antiship missiles?


 
Six C 803.

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## Pak_Sher

Pakistan should also try to manufacture similar vessels in Pakistan.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

There is no reason not to assume we can't 

a) We really need 20 such boats in Pakistan Navy , together with the Frigates we have would create a good combination

b) But I wonder how effective these boats are vs Submarine threats do they have any capabilities against submerged targets


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## a1b2c145

In fact, I think these will be type 056 rather than type 022!!!!!!!!


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## a1b2c145

022 is too small&#65306;









022&#8216; turning around
é»ååè° - è§é¢ - ä¼é·è§é¢ - å¨çº¿è§ç


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## Areesh

Humm I don't think so. It is has a displacement of 1500 ton I think. While PN is buying something of 500-600 ton.


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## alimobin memon

Roussen Class FACM
Roussen Class FACM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
this ship from greek navy is 580 tons so i get the of pn 2 ships will be of this size 
by the way they also carry sam's!!!


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## Penguin

Penguin said:


> Working on it.
> 
> It's built by Xinggang Shipyard, Tianjin and part of China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Company Limited (CSOC) . Apparently, a variant is being made for Bangladesh navy.
> 
> TIANJIN XINGANG SHIPBUILDING HEAVY INDUSTRY CO.,LTD. XINGANG SHIREPAIR YARD
> China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation


[from hearsay]

Thailand's Marsun Shipyard has designed the patrol craft and fast attack craft that are being built in the Bangladesh and Pakistan shipyards, with cooperation from CSOC of China. So, there are three parties involved. For Bangladeshi vessels at least, some components (such as engine, weapons and navigation equipment) have been imported from the UK.


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## Dazzler

is it already built??


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## oct605032048

nabil_05 said:


> is it already built??


 
Nope. Type 056 is a light fragate to replace 037 and 053 in the future.

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## Dazzler

Pardon me bro, i messed it up all perhaps because we lost to India in cricket semifinal today


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## nightcrawler

I am against such naval vehicles because Pakistan don't need them especially if the adversary can buy better aircraft carriers & long range missiles from Russia....
Remember at the time when US built far more aircraft carriers the Russians instead of fighting a similar weapon with a similar weapon; changed the wargame policy & built the much economical & deadly black sea Submarine fleet.
First thing to acknowledge is that *we are at defensive* at least for now so submarine is viable option as the saying goes.
Carriers & naval vehicles are built to utilise/exploit the open waters but the submarines deny such freedom!!

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## Obambam

nightcrawler said:


> I am against such naval vehicles because Pakistan don't need them especially if the adversary can buy better aircraft carriers & long range missiles from Russia....
> Remember at the time when US built far more aircraft carriers the Russians instead of fighting a similar weapon with a similar weapon; changed the wargame policy & built the much economical & deadly black sea Submarine fleet.
> First thing to acknowledge is that *we are at defensive* at least for now so submarine is viable option as the saying goes.
> Carriers & naval vehicles are built to utilise/exploit the open waters but the submarines deny such freedom!!


 
I am with you bro. Submarines makes better deterrents and are flexible in fulfilling variations of different tasks. It makes more sense for Pakistan to field more subs, AA batteries, SAM's and ASM's etc. It is all about maximising the damage and cost effectively eliminating their most valued equipments.

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## Penguin

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> There is no reason not to assume we can't
> 
> a) We really need 20 such boats in Pakistan Navy , together with the Frigates we have would create a good combination
> 
> b) But I wonder how effective these boats are vs Submarine threats do they have any capabilities against submerged targets


 
a) what for? estimate arrived at how?
b) not effective: their primary mission and armament is anti-surface.


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## Penguin

nightcrawler said:


> I am against such naval vehicles because Pakistan don't need them especially if the adversary can buy better aircraft carriers & long range missiles from Russia....
> Remember at the time when US built far more aircraft carriers the Russians instead of fighting a similar weapon with a similar weapon; changed the wargame policy & built the much economical & deadly black sea Submarine fleet.
> First thing to acknowledge is that *we are at defensive* at least for now so submarine is viable option as the saying goes.
> Carriers & naval vehicles are built to utilise/exploit the open waters but the submarines deny such freedom!!


 
Sea denial: a military / naval term describing attempts to deny an enemy's ability to use the sea but at the same time making no attempt to control the sea itself. A sea denial strategy is a far easier strategy to carry out than sea control. It can be waged quite offensively or rather defensively.

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## khurasaan1

nabil_05 said:


> is it already built??


 
no not this one ....They talking about the small missile boats...This one is bigger similiar to F22p I guess...


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## nightcrawler

Penguin said:


> Sea denial: a military / naval term describing attempts to deny an enemy's ability to use the sea but at the same time making no attempt to control the sea itself. A sea denial strategy is a far easier strategy to carry out than sea control. It can be waged quite offensively or rather defensively.


 tHNAK You SIR


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## TOPGUN

So we still don't which type we are getting uff....


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## Penguin

petervivian said:


> Hi, Penguin, thanks for the links. But we can't get much information from these China shipbuilding companies' website, especially information on navy vessels. I just want to know where does the picture you first posted in the original FAC(M) thread come from.


It is probably a scan from a brochure. I got it from CDF. I got the impression it was first posted by one of the members from Bangladesh, which is building a variant.


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## Penguin

TOPGUN said:


> So we still don't which type we are getting uff....


 
500 ton FAC, chinese co-designed, locally built. Most likely looking like the CG image on previous 2 thread pages.


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## petervivian

Any update so far?


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## Last Hope

KARACHI: Pakistan Navy has started constructing missile boat in the Karachi Shipyard, our sources reported.
The missile boat would be equipped with anti-surface missile, automatic guns and weapons system.

Secretary defence production, Lt. General Shahid Iqbal, attending the keel laying ceremony for the construction of missile boat as guest of honour, expressed his thanks to the Karachi Shipyard and added that it would help build up the defence capability of Pakistan Navy.

Following the handing over of two small tanker cum utility ships and launching of 22p-f frigate, these missile boats with the cooperation of China are being built in the Karachi Shipyard.


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## Cool_Soldier

Hi every body, is this the same version of boat that is being built in china under an agreement for two 500 ton displacement missile boats..? Or anything else based on Turkish missile boat..? If anyone has some information about it, please share them...many thanks.


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## GHOST RIDER

which missile boat is it???


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## Fearless Warrior



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## Areesh

Cool_Soldier said:


> Hi every body, is this the same version of boat that is being built in china under an agreement for two 500 ton displacement missile boats..? Or anything else based on Turkish missile boat..? If anyone has some information about it, please share them...many thanks.


 
Yes it is the same boat.


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## TOPGUN

Areesh said:


> Yes it is the same boat.


 
Is it the same boat in the pic's with the blue camo paint ? or another ?


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## Saifullah Sani

http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/119712-fast-attack-craft-missile-boats.html


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## Rafi

Excellent.


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## Penguin

Try to stick with existing threads on this topic. Ps the pic above shows an Israeli design....
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-...tructing-fast-attack-craft-missile-boats.html


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## Manticore

Type 037-II Huang Houjian class, Due to technology difficulties, particularly on the license produced SEMT diesel engines, high price, and over sophisticated design in PLAN standard, the production was terminated.


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## Pak_Sher

This will be a great venture for local production of fast attack missile boats. In order to overcome shortage of crafts, PN needs to build at least 50 of this boats.


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## Areesh

TOPGUN said:


> Is it the same boat in the pic's with the blue camo paint ? or another ?


 
No it is a different boat. Can't confirm the type right now.


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## Donatello

Pak_Sher said:


> This will be a great venture for local production of fast attack missile boats. In order to overcome shortage of crafts, PN needs to build at least 50 of this boats.


 

50? That's a tad bit high.

In that amount you could buy 4 F-22 frigates and 4 type 54A air defense frigates. Which would be much more lethal and useful.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well I think 20-30 is a sufficient number , fast , so they could outrun , the submarines, and fast and agile to escape from torpedoes , and lethal for enemy ships 

Fantastic option not to mention stealth so they can come launch 20 missiles and be gone


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## fatman17

maximum you need 3 squadrons 3x6 for coastal defence maritime recee of economic zones. each sqdn can be based at gwadar, turbat (new P3C base) and ormara (sub base).


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## houshanghai

022&#65311;




new boat


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## TOPGUN

fatman17 said:


> maximum you need 3 squadrons 3x6 for coastal defence maritime recee of economic zones. each sqdn can be based at gwadar, turbat (new P3C base) and ormara (sub base).


 
Fatman thx for the info however... so the P-3 C will be based at Turbat?


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## lawxx

good news


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## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> Fatman thx for the info however... so the P-3 C will be based at Turbat?



it was planned already - WW2 airport is being upgraded along with infrastructure but unfortunately the mehran terrorist attacks happened.

all the agosta 90B and the earlier model agosta are being moved to ormara. in karachi, the surface fleet will be based, frigates, minesweepers etc.

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## petervivian



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## Arsalan

well there is still nothing confirmed about which missile craft PN is getting.
the pics every where show type 022 but the reports claim it to be a 500 ton category ship and these two thing do not fit together.

i guess, it is a new design or perhaps at least a largely modified design of some existing class and that is why the exact class is not being reported.
there is every chance for this to happen as now the PN dockyard have gained enough experience to go ahead with manufacturing of hull. the issue we lack in is ht e weapon and battle command systems. these can be fitted in the new ship and thus a new class can come into existence. 

this can be one reason that no one doi not exactly know what ship is it!

i think some senior members with links within Navy can come up to help!

regards!


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## petervivian

Check the picture above your post. This is one frame from the official steel cutting ceremony video of the second ship in this class. The ship's outline and armaments can be confirmed from this picture.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The ship in the banner looks fairly stealthy but its surely not the fast attack boat we have been seeing in earlier threads with the camaflouge
are these two separate deals


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## Arsalan

dear all these videos and pictures from banners have been posted in last pages. the problem is that no one has been able to confirm what ship it exactly is and are we going to get these for sure!
for this, i am looking forward for someone with a reliable source in Navy to confirm this.
otherwise, we have to wait for 1.5~2 years when these will be commissioned! we will know what these are for sure at that time!


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## fatman17

arsalanaslam123 said:


> dear all these videos and pictures from banners have been posted in last pages. the problem is that no one has been able to confirm what ship it exactly is and are we going to get these for sure!
> for this, i am looking forward for someone with a reliable source in Navy to confirm this.
> otherwise, we have to wait for 1.5~2 years when these will be commissioned! we will know what these are for sure at that time!



*possibly of the Houjian class *

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## Jango

what ever it is, but it is not houbei class, was really waiting for it!!


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## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> *possibly of the Houjian class *


 
hmm, the ship in the above pictures look a stealth design. there is evey possibility that PN may be going for a modified design with stealthy features and will include the systems of Houjian Class corvette. the PN dockyard have gained enough knowledge in ship building that they can modify the design of there own now.
this may be one reason why no one is sure about what class of ships are these.

regards!


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## Jango

arsalanaslam123 said:


> hmm, the ship in the above pictures look a stealth design. there is evey possibility that PN may be going for a modified design with stealthy features and will include the systems of Houjian Class corvette. the PN dockyard have gained enough knowledge in ship building that they can modify the design of there own now.
> this may be one reason why no one is sure about what class of ships are these.
> 
> regards!


 
may be a new class or hybrid of multiple classes?


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## monitor

or this one weight around 520 ton but no air defence missile system . and the stealth feature is not visible


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## petervivian

arsalanaslam123 said:


> dear all these videos and pictures from banners have been posted in last pages. the problem is that no one has been able to confirm what ship it exactly is and are we going to get these for sure!
> for this, i am looking forward for someone with a reliable source in Navy to confirm this.
> otherwise, we have to wait for 1.5~2 years when these will be commissioned! we will know what these are for sure at that time!





AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> The ship in the banner looks fairly stealthy but its surely not the fast attack boat we have been seeing in earlier threads with the camaflouge
> are these two separate deals



You can wait for your reliable source if you want to. However, as a person who have seen the first boat being built in Tianjin, China, I can tell you that the one being built by KSEW (i.e. the boat shown in the banner) is the second boat of this class. They are exactly what PN will receive for the deal of constructing two FAC(M). There is absolutely no contract of type 022 stealth FAC for PN when I am writing this comment. And by the way, you don't have to wait 1.5~2 years for the pictures, because the first boat will be launched in October 2011. I will post photos when the boat takes shape.

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## Arsalan

petervivian said:


> You can wait for your reliable source if you want to. However, as a person who have seen the first boat being built in Tianjin, China, I can tell you that the one being built by KSEW (i.e. the boat shown in the banner) is the second boat of this class. They are exactly what PN will receive for the deal of constructing two FAC(M). There is absolutely no contract of type 022 stealth FAC for PN when I am writing this comment. And by the way, you don't have to wait 1.5~2 years for the pictures, because the first boat will be launched in October 2011. I will post photos when the boat takes shape.


 
that is fine!
this seem to be a reliable information as you are atleast saying that you have seen it being question.
now the next question will be what class of ship is actually is. i know we are not going for Type 022, it simply does not fit into displacement category being reported.
we will like to know what class of ship it is.

i guess my initial guess seem to be right that it is a new design or a highly modified one that is one reason no one is certain about the ship class/name!
can you help with that?

regards!


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## Arsalan

nuclearpak said:


> what ever it is, but it is not houbei class, was really waiting for it!!


 
i think it is something better. looks a stealthier vessel by the pics available.
moreover, we required something in this displacement category. something in between pure coastal defense vessels like the missile boats we ready have and heavier frigates. it will have longer range and increased sea endurance then the Type 022. 
indeed it will be a nice addition!


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## Jango

arsalanaslam123 said:


> i think it is something better. looks a stealthier vessel by the pics available.
> moreover, we required something in this displacement category. something in between pure coastal defense vessels like the missile boats we ready have and heavier frigates. it will have longer range and increased sea endurance then the Type 022.
> indeed it will be a nice addition!


 
Does not really seem stealthier than the houbei class, but i am sure it was the best for the circumstances. And i agree, it seems to have more sea worthiness and ruggedness than Type 022


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## Dazzler

Similar to what we saw in case of 053H3, revamped and stealth added as F-22p. It is most likely a modified PN variant of Houjian class

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## Penguin

nabil_05 said:


> Similar to what we saw in case of 053H3, revamped and stealth added as F-22p. It is most likely a modified PN variant of Houjian class


 
I think really you should read the first pages of this thead and some other related threads if you haven't already. You've find details about who designed the vessel and for whom. If you have already read it, I'm really puzzeled why you would come to the above conclusion of 'modified Houjian': what indications/basis for that argument?


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## Arsalan

Penguin said:


> I think really you should read the first pages of this thead and some other related threads if you haven't already. You've find details about who designed the vessel and for whom. If you have already read it, I'm really puzzeled why you would come to the above conclusion of 'modified Houjian': what indications/basis for that argument?


 
sir, he might be quite right. no one know what class is this, it looks like a new vessel with stealth feature and is poised to be in displacement category same as Houjian class. keeping all this in view, i think it is save to assume that it might be a modified Houjian class.
remember, one this seem quite confirmed by the news and happenings so far, it is a new design and a new class of ship. so *Mr. Nabil_05* can be quite right!

regards!

regards!


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## Dazzler

Penguin said:


> I think really you should read the first pages of this thead and some other related threads if you haven't already. You've find details about who designed the vessel and for whom. If you have already read it, I'm really puzzeled why you would come to the above conclusion of 'modified Houjian': what indications/basis for that argument?


 
Sir, I forgot to mention the "Naval source" of mine had this to say so these are primarily, his words, i just did the posting here.


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## Arsalan

so friends, anyone got a chance to have a look at it.
any confirmed news what exactly this ship is. i am almost certain about one thin that it is not some off shelve ship and PN have asked from some major modification to this that is why no exact class couldn't be announced so far!

regards!


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## Arsalan

there is another point to note that there hav been news that PN have start constructing FAC in Naval Dockyard Karachi,



> KARACHI: Pakistan Navy has started constructing missile boat in the Karachi Shipyard, Geo News reported.
> 
> The missile boat would be equipped with ant-surface missile, automatic gun and weapon system.
> 
> Secretary defence production, Lt. General Shahid Iqbal, attending the keel laying ceremony for the construction of missile boat as guest of honour, expressed his thanks to the Karachi Shipyard and added that it would help build up the defence capability of Pakistan Navy.
> 
> Following the handing over of two small tanker cum utility ships and launching of 22p-f frigate, these missile boats with the cooperation of China are being built in the Karachi Shipyard.


Pak Navy making fast attack craft missile boats

are there any chances that this project is seprate from the 500 ton missile boat that was reported as being constructed in China:


> Beijing: China on Tuesday formally began the construction of two state-of-the-art fast attack missile crafts for the Pakistan Navy in addition to several naval frigates it is building for its close strategic partner.
> 
> The keel-laying ceremony of Fast Attack Craft FAC(M) of Pakistan Navy was held at Xinggang Shipyard in China's Tianjin city today.
> 
> Pakistan Navy has signed a contact with China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Company Limited (CSOC) for construction of two state-of-the-art missile crafts which will be equipped with latest weapons and sensors.
> 
> The ceremony was attended by Vice Admiral Tanveer Faiz Ahmed of the Pakistan Navy, official Pakistan news agency APP reported.
> 
> According to the arrangement, one craft would be built in Tianjin while the other would be constructed at PakistanÂ&#8217;s Karachi docks.
> 
> The first craft was expected to join the force in October this year. There is no word about the financial arrangements for the construction of the two vessels.
> 
> China, a major supplier of weapons systems to Pakistan, is involved in a host of defence projects with its close ally.
> 
> These included development of new fighter jet JF-17 Thunder which is being produced in both the countries with engines supplied by Russia.
> 
> China is also constructing a number of naval frigates for the Pakistan Navy which so far took delivery of three frigates and the fourth one is being constructed with Chinese cooperation in Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works.
> 
> The commencement of the construction of the new missile boats followed the visit of Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee of the Pakistan Army, Gen. Khalid Shameem Wynne last week to take part in the eighth round of security dialogue between the two countries.
> 
> The talks focussed on finalisation of new projects to expand their defence cooperation as well as steps for timely completion of ongoing projects.


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## ziaulislam

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> There is no reason not to assume we can't
> 
> a) We really need 20 such boats in Pakistan Navy , together with the Frigates we have would create a good combination
> 
> b) But I wonder how effective these boats are vs Submarine threats do they have any capabilities against submerged targets



they do carry deep charges but a problem is to detect a submarines..thats what biggest problem is how to find it..even for aircraft carriers its difficult to find a sub!


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## Areesh

arsalanaslam123 said:


> there is another point to note that there hav been news that PN have start constructing FAC in Naval Dockyard Karachi,
> 
> 
> Pak Navy making fast attack craft missile boats
> 
> are there any chances that this project is seprate from the 500 ton missile boat that was reported as being constructed in China:


 
It is part of the same project. Both are same FAC's.

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## fd24

god bless china and pakistan


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## Arsalan

Areesh said:


> It is part of the same project. Both are same FAC's.



but one source claime the construction beng started in china and anther claim the production tohave started in china? whats the point in this?

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## aimarraul



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## Areesh

arsalanaslam123 said:


> but one source claime the construction beng started in china and anther claim the production tohave started in china? whats the point in this?



Well two FAC's were supposed to built for PN. When is under construction in China and would be completed in October. The second one one is being built Karachi shipyard.


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## zer_0

it looks nice though


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## Major Shaitan Singh

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Navy has become the first maritime force in the region that is equipped with stealth technology after its first Fast Attack Craft (FAC) equipped with missiles was launched on Tuesday. India also launched its FAC on the same day in Kochi. 

&#8220;The version Pakistan has bought has far better qualities and added features including cost efficiency and multi-role in any combat activity,&#8221; said an insider. &#8220;The inclusion of the FAC-M in Pakistan navy will enhance its capacity to fight against terrorism and extremism.&#8221;

According to the Pakistan Navy, the FAC-M, designated as PNS Azmat was launched at Tianjin (Xingang Chinese Shipyard) in an impressive ceremony where Pakistan&#8217;s Chief of Naval Staff (CNS) Admiral Noman Bashir was the chief guest. The vessel will be the first of the Azmat class FAC, scheduled to be delivered to the Pakistan Navy within six months.

The missile craft construction project represents a quantum leap, not only in defence production in the maritime sector of Pakistan, but also addresses a long-standing operational requirement of the Navy. The fast attack craft is equipped with advanced weaponry and sensors, including the C802A surface-to-surface missile, and has stealth features. The FAC in question has a crew of 12 to 14 sailors, less than half that of similar craft. At a unit cost of an estimated $50 million each, a Navy with limited resources could afford both the financial and manpower commitment.

Admiral Noman Bashir, who has brought several innovations in Pakistan, addressed the ceremony marking the launching of FAC-M. 

Acknowledging the efforts of Chinese engineers and technicians for the construction 

of FAC-M, the chief guest felicitated the China State Shipbuilding Company (CSOC), Xingang Shipyard for their full cooperation and commitment in launching the craft as per schedule and remarked that this was yet another example of the unique and unparallel relations between the two countries.

&#8220;The Pakistan-China relationship is unique and does not draw any parallel in the world. 

This relationship over the years has matured in all fields, particularly in defence,&#8221; he said, adding that the current geo-political situation demands further strengthening of ties between the two countries.

The CNS said that this project represents a quantum leap not only in the defence production in Maritime Sector of Pakistan but also addresses a longstanding operational requirement of Pakistan Navy. 

&#8220;The collaboration in this project hopefully will open new vistas of cooperation which will be yet another milestone in defence cooperation between China and Pakistan,&#8221; he said, adding that the induction of the missile craft will not only supplement Pakistan&#8217;s combat potential but also afford the Pakistan Navy the opportunity to distinctly uphold its forward presence in the area of interest, contributing to a balance the power in the region.

The admiral said the environment around us warrants the Pakistan navy to be prepared to counter the forces challenging our sovereignty as well as regional peace and security. 

Admiral Noman Bashir said he was confident that the construction of the second fast attack craft in Pakistan will be accomplished successfully with the full cooperation ofChina.

The Indian media has reported that India added a new warship to its fleet with the commissioning of FAC in Kochi to aid in anti-piracy operations in the Arabian Sea. It has been named after an island in the Andaman and Nicobar archipelago as Kabra.

Vice Admiral Sushil underscored the importance of relatively smaller ships like fast attack craft for a blue water navy, saying the assets were an essential inventory in peacetime for low intensity conflicts and anti-piracy operations. 

It is the eighth of a series built with borrowed technology. The main armament of the ship is a 30mm CRN 91 gun. In addition, the ship has been fitted with machineguns of various types and shoulder launched surface-to-air missiles. INS Kabra has a three-officer and 39-sailor crew

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## monitor

great news indeed.

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## monitor

20 Sep, 2011, 03.30PM IST, PTI 
*China building fast attack craft for Pakistan.
*
BEIJING: Launching a fast attack craft being built by China, Pakistan's navy chief Admiral Noman Bashir today said the induction of the vessel equipped with advanced weaponry and sensors will supplement his country's combat potential. 

"The environment around us warrants Pakistan navy to be prepared to counter the forces challenging our sovereignty as well as regional peace and security," he said at the launch of the missile-armed vessel at Xingang shipyard at Tianjin in China. 

The missile craft construction project represents a "quantum leap, not only in defence production in the maritime sector of Pakistan, but also addresses a long-standing operational requirement of the Pakistan Navy," an official statement said. 

The vessel will be the first of the Azmat class fast attack craft, which is scheduled to be delivered to the Pakistan navy by April next year. 

Admiral Bashir expressed confidence that the induction of the fast attack craft will supplement Pakistan's combat potential and give its navy an opportunity to "distinctly uphold its forward presence in areas of interest, contributing to balance the power equation in the region." 

Pakistan is deeply committed to achieving the "shared objectives of attaining peace, stability and prosperity in the region," he said. 

"The Pakistan-China relationship is unique and does not draw any parallel in the world. This relationship over the years has matured in all fields, particularly in defence," he said, adding the current geo-political situation demands further strengthening of Sino-Pak ties. 

Bashir said he was confident that the construction of the second fast attack craft in Pakistan will be accomplished successfully with full cooperation from China. 

The fast attack craft is equipped with advanced weaponry and sensors, including the C802A surface-to-surface missile, and has stealth features.

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## HANI

is it the same fast attack craft launched today????????


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## mughaljee



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## Doctor09

Awesome


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## QADRI

china stealth missle boat - YouTube


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

From: Information Dissemination: Chinese 500 ton FAC for Pakistan

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## Imran Khan

so these are not as pics shown up lolz .i think these types already made in pakistan .


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## muse

Interesting that the Navy has not seen the need for larger 9000-1200 ton range vessels - the orientation of the thinking reflects some of the same kinds of thinking that the Iranian navy seems occupied with - but then again, the Arabian sea offers expanse and maneuver that the Persian gulf and the straights of Hormuz don't, to larger vessels.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Imran Khan said:


> so these are not as pics shown up lolz .i think these types already made in pakistan .


These FAC are different from the existing Jalalat Class Missile boats produced by Pakistan:







Also, compare the specifications of the Jalalat with the new FAC-M:

*Jalalat:*

Propulsion Power	2 MTU Diesel (5,984 hp) 
2 shafts
Speed	24 Knots
Length	39 m
Beam	6.7 m
Draft	1.7 m
Displacement	200 tons full load
Complement	3 Officers, 42 sailors
Armament	C 802 SSM (twin) 
37mm Gun
EW Systems	RW-28 CB (Radar Warning Receiver) 
945-G (Chaff/IR Launcher) 
PJ-45 (Controller)

*New FAC-M:*

-Full load displacement of 500-600 tons
-Overall length of 60 meters (196.8ft)
-Radius of action equal to or greater than 500 nautical miles, max speed 30 knots
-Complement of 55-60 personnel
-And fitted with the following weapon and sensor systems:
-8 Chinese C-802A SSMs
-Two 25mm close range semi-automatic EO/IR AA guns
-Two 12.7mm machine guns
-Chaff and IR decoys
-Air/Surface search radar with track while scan (TWS) function
-Electro optical director and fire control radars for associated weapons
-Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) System
-Modern C3 System

---------- Post added at 11:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 AM ----------




muse said:


> Interesting that the Navy has not seen the need for larger 9000-1200 ton range vessels - the orientation of the thinking reflects some of the same kinds of thinking that the Iranian navy seems occupied with - but then again, the Arabian sea offers expanse and maneuver that the Persian gulf and the straights of Hormuz don't, to larger vessels.



What significant advantage would ships in the 900-1200 ton class offer, that the FAC's do not, and at what cost, and would those advantages not also be obtained through the F-22P (and larger) frigates?

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## Imran Khan

thanks sir at least now navy moved out from ex-UK ships damn i was sick from them.its better new frigates now FAC new missile boats .

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## Rafi

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> From: Information Dissemination: Chinese 500 ton FAC for Pakistan


 
These boats are more like corvettes than anything else.


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## Donatello

It looks like they have flat bed at the back. Is that for launching a chopper?


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## Imran Khan

penumbra said:


> It looks like they have flat bed at the back. Is that for launching a chopper?



it should be too small man i think images not for FAC which built for pakistan images look like frigate or corvette


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## monitor

penumbra said:


> It looks like they have flat bed at the back. Is that for launching a chopper?


 
the space in the rear seems like for landing chopper . it is more like a small warship then stealth Hobei class fac .


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## Dazzler

FAC is a corvette, it is not a missile boat unlike a common belief. Pics are showing a well worked stealth corvette.

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## muse

> What significant advantage would ships in the 900-1200 ton class offer, that the FAC's do not, and at what cost, and would those advantages not also be obtained through the F-22P (and larger) frigates?


Agnostic Muslim



I must have typo'd - I meant 9000- 12000 tons


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## aimarraul



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## Donatello

aimarraul said:


>


 
Thanks for the superb Pics aimarraul.


Those are sexy looking boats........can't wait to see them patrolling the high seas!

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## Areesh

Ok. Now that's some seriously cool boat. Thanks for the pics aimarraul.


.


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## Rafi

Definitive a corvette

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

This looks a bit bigger then a boat , its definitely a ship worthy of being a navy vessel 

Few missiles on this baby and stealth features and its ready for action


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## HANI

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> This looks a bit bigger then a boat , its definitely a ship worthy of being a navy vessel
> 
> Few missiles on this baby and stealth features and its ready for action


 
what will be the weapons on this ship dear???? any Z 9 on it???????


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## Ibr0kEmYrAz0r

penumbra said:


> It looks like they have flat bed at the back. Is that for launching a chopper?


 
By looking at the picture, I have doubts though. (1) There are no handrails that can be folded down usually associated with helipad on naval ships, and (2) there are no optical/instrumental landing systems (for assisting helicopter landing) installed at the back.

And (3) the two large sloped/trapezoidal shaped objects covered with blankets look more like two of those shelving brackets/launchers (without the boxes) for C-802A quad-packed anti-surface missiles. Some other blanket-covered stuff might be some kind of ASW equipments/chaff & flare decoys/machine guns, etc.; and (4) there is a metal staircase leading to upper level, which shortens the already short rear section of the ship (by looking at the last picture). *All these suggest the ship is not designed for launching a chopper.* (However, there might be some space left for launching UAV though... not quite sure without a top-view.)

Make no mistake, it certainly is a good looking stealth corvette (larger than 500 metric tons), and punches a lot of fire power. Its role is quite versatile for the navy when fully inducted into the service. More importantly, when the Pakistani brothers build more of these ships locally like "dumplings" (10+?), your coastal defence capability can be greatly enhanced.

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## Penguin

nabil_05 said:


> FAC is a corvette, it is not a missile boat unlike a common belief. Pics are showing a well worked stealth corvette.


 
FAC = Fast Attack Craft (not corvette)
FAC's come in gun and missile armed variations (FPB, FACM)

Misisle FACs run up to 600 tons. Corvettes start around 800 tons (but these are really still enlarged missile boats, e.g. helicopter capable FACs fond in the Gulf). True corvettes aren't attack vessel put patrol.escort vessels, and are over 1000 tons (primarily for endurance and seakeeping reasons) but under 2000 tons (they are force multipliers, have to be siimpler and cheaper than the smallest of frigates). Over 2000 tons you are in the range of the light frigate (e.g. Chinese Type 53H3, Malaysian Lekiu). Frigates start at 3000 tons upto about 5000-6000 tons, bigger than that you're dealing with a destroyer. Cruisers start around 10k tons.


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## Ibr0kEmYrAz0r

Penguin said:


> FAC = Fast Attack Craft (not corvette)
> FAC's come in gun and missile armed variations (FPB, FACM)
> 
> Misisle FACs run up to 600 tons. Corvettes start around 800 tons (but these are really still enlarged missile boats, e.g. helicopter capable FACs fond in the Gulf). True corvettes aren't attack vessel put patrol.escort vessels, and are over 1000 tons (primarily for endurance and seakeeping reasons) but under 2000 tons (they are force multipliers, have to be siimpler and cheaper than the smallest of frigates). Over 2000 tons you are in the range of the light frigate (e.g. Chinese Type 53H3, Malaysian Lekiu). Frigates start at 3000 tons upto about 5000-6000 tons, bigger than that you're dealing with a destroyer. Cruisers start around 10k tons.


 
Generally agree.

However, the definition of different classes of naval vessel changes with the course of time. Back in the early 20th century, many 2000-tons class naval vessels were classified as light cruisers, and ships built in 60's -90's, many 4000+ tons ships are stilled classified as destroyers.

Also if that is not confused enough, from 1950 to 1975, USA's Navy used "frigate" to define the class of ships midway between cruiser and destroyer sizes, used as major task force escorts. Of course after 1975, USA reclassified many of its surface vessels, and those "frigates" (DL/DLG/DLGN) became "cruisers"(CG/CGN) and "destroyers"(DDG), just like the rest of the world.

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## abaseen99

PNS AZMAT Fast Attack Craft (Missile) Launched

PNS AZMAT Fast Attack Craft (Missile) Launched ~ Pakistan Military Review
Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Noman Bashir was the Chief Guest at the launching ceremony of the 1st Fast Attack Craft (Missile) being built for Pakistan Navy here at Xingang Shipyard, Tianjin, China.

He said that the project of Fast Attack Craft (Missile) construction represents a quantum leap, not only in Defence Production in naval Sector of Pakistan, but also will meet the long standing operational requirement of Pakistan Navy for the Fast Attack Crafts.

AZMAT Class Fast Attack Craft (Missile) has a crew of 12 to 14 sailors which is less than half that of similar FAC(M). Each FAC(M) will cost of around $50 million each.

PNS AZMAT is speculated to be a 500-600 ton, 60-meter Fast Attack Craft (Missile) which will be equipped with eight C-802A/CSS-N-8 Saccade anti-ship missiles.

First Fast Attack Craft (Missile) will be called AZMAT FAC(M) and it is scheduled to be delivered to Pakistan Navy Fleet by April 2012. These ships will be known as AZMAT Class FAC(M)s in service with Pakistan Navy.

Chief of Naval Staff said that induction of Missile Crafts will supplement Pakistan Navy&#8217;s warfare capabilties He cherished the hard work put in by China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSOC) and Pakistan Navy team in realizing the construction of the ship in a short time.

Admiral Noman Bashir said, &#8220;Pak-China relationship is unique and does not draw any parallel in the world. This relationship over the years has matured in all fields, particularly in defence.&#8221; He said that production of the second Fast Attack Craft (Missile) in Pakistan will also be accomplished with the active help of our Chinese friends.

AZMAT Fast Attack Craft (Missile) is equipped with C802A Surface-to-Surface Anti-Ship Missiles which has a range of 180 kilometers. AZMAT FAC(M) uses latest stealthy features to avoide detection from long ranges. force. Admiral Noman Bashir said that AZMAT FAC(M) is equipped with the high tech weapons and sensors to preform extremely versatile missions.

AZMAT Class Fast Attack Craft (Missile)


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## Dazzler

Please stop posting 022 class missile boats that have nothing to do with this thread, PNS Azmat or Pakistan Navy.


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## fatman17

Monday, September 19, 2011

*Chinese 500 ton FAC for Pakistan *

In late February 2010, PN issued a tender for procurement of two 500-ton Fast Attack Craft (FAC).


The main characteristics for the FAC as follows:

-Full load displacement of 500-600 tons
-Overall length of 60 meters (196.8ft)
-Radius of action equal to or greater than 500 nautical miles, max speed 30 knots
-Complement of 55-60 personnel

-And fitted with the following weapon and sensor systems:
-8 Chinese C-802A SSMs
-Two 25mm close range semi-automatic EO/IR AA guns
-Two 12.7mm machine guns
-Chaff and IR decoys
-Air/Surface search radar with track while scan (TWS) function
-Electro optical director and fire control radars for associated weapons
-Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) System
-Modern C3 System

In December of last year, a Chinese firm was selected to build these boats. In March of this this year, the keel laying ceremony of Fast Attack Craft FAC(M) of Pakistan Navy was held at Xinggang Shipyard, Tianjin.


Tuesday. Vice Admiral Tanveer Faiz Ahmed HI (M) was Chief Guest in the ceremony.

Pakistan Navy has signed a contact with China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Company Limited (CSOC) for construction of two state-of-the-art Missile Craft.

Construction of two crafts in parallel i.e. one in China and other in Pakistan at KS&EW, is in progress as a joint venture of two countries. Upon completion of construction activities in October 2011, the first Missile Craft will join the PN Fleet.



Note that the last part stated this ship will be completed by October of this year. We have received a couple of photos of it just last night. I'm still waiting for more photos to come out before making assessments.

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## houshanghai

China Defense Blog: More photos of the new FAC for Pakistan.

this is a four-screw ship and his speed must be very fast.

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## Roybot

penumbra said:


> It looks like they have flat bed at the back. Is that for launching a chopper?



I think the flat bed at the back is just space for rigid hull boats maybe? Similar to Indian Navy's Car Nicobar Class FACs?


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## Penguin

If a FAC (fast attack craft) then that space in the rear is reserved for SSM launchers.


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## Penguin

Ibr0kEmYrAz0r said:


> Generally agree.
> 
> However, the definition of different classes of naval vessel changes with the course of time. Back in the early 20th century, many 2000-tons class naval vessels were classified as light cruisers, and ships built in 60's -90's, many 4000+ tons ships are stilled classified as destroyers.
> 
> Also if that is not confused enough, from 1950 to 1975, USA's Navy used "frigate" to define the class of ships midway between cruiser and destroyer sizes, used as major task force escorts. Of course after 1975, USA reclassified many of its surface vessels, and those "frigates" (DL/DLG/DLGN) became "cruisers"(CG/CGN) and "destroyers"(DDG), just like the rest of the world.



Yes, USN had the deluded practise of calling guided missile cruisers 'frugates' and frigates 'destroyer escorts'. And current generation of AAW frigates are the size of destroyers of a couple of decades ago. However, that just reflects the trend of upscaling so a 250tn FAC getsd stuff added and grows to 600 ton or even 800 ton and is now called corvette (even though in terms of design and capabilities mainly SPEED 30-40kn and MISSILE armament it still is closer to a smaller FAC). Corvettes are turned into light frigates as more systems are added and frigates into destroyers. Still, on the whole, ths function of a corvette is fundamentally different from that of a FAC: a corvette is designed to be ocean going, for patrol and escort duties, which translates to lower top speeds 25-30kn, comparable armament in the best of cases, but greater/superior endurance and seakeeping relative to a FAC.

Corvettes: Braunschweig class (Germany), Minerva class (Italy), Po Hang & Dong Hea classes (South Korea)
FACs on steroid (often called Corvette): Murray Jip class (FPB 62 type, UAE), Laksamana class (Malaysia), Victory class (Singapore), Saar 5 class (Israel)
FAC: Gumdoksui class (South Korea PKG-A), Yildiz & K&#305;l&#305;ç I & II classes (Turkey)


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## razgriz19

yes, the space at the back, or "deck" is reserved for 8-ASM!
its not for a chopper....

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## abaseen99

China helps Pakistan to build Fast Attack Craft in Karachi Shipyard
Posted on 30 October 2011 by admin 


2011-10-30 (China Military News cited from dailytimes.com.pk) -- Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW) will build a Fast Attack Craft (FAC) for Pakistan Navy (PN) in collaboration with the Chinese company 'China Shipbuilding and Off shore Company (CSOC) (Pvt) Limited'.
"We hope to complete the project of the 'Attack Craft' with missile carrier by April next year," said Chief of Staff Pakistan Navy Vice Admiral Tayyab Ali Dogar, while addressing the ceremony on the occasion here on Friday.
"It is historic occasion for the country and Pakistan Navy for a collaboration with the Chinese brothers on this project," he maintained. He said that the project of missile carrier craft would further improve the defence capabilities of Pakistan in collaboration with the Chinese experts and boost the strength of Pakistan Navy.
Speaking on the occasion, Managing Director (MD) KSEW Rear Admiral Hasan Nasir Hussain Shah praised the services of the engineering sector of KSEW, which would complete the project three-week in advance of the scheduled time.
"The craft will have maximum speed of 30 knots propelled by 4-diesel engines." Shah said. The craft boat will be equipped with latest weapons and sensors, he maintained.
MD KSEW said that the yard successfully constructed a number of warships, including missile crafts, tugs and fabricated many of the utility ships. "We are capable enough to meet all shipbuilding requirements of the maritime sector," he added.


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## wangrong



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## Inception-06

wangrong said:


>


 
What Airdefence Systems this Ships will have ?


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## Penguin

Ulla said:


> What Airdefence Systems this Ships will have ?


SAM's you mean? None or MANPADS type at best.


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## wangrong



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## wangrong



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## TOPGUN

Is there any plans to have anymore then just 2 or not?


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## Penguin

TOPGUN said:


> Is there any plans to have anymore then just 2 or not?



Dunno. Significant, it seems to me, is the indigenous shipbuilding capability (F22P plsu these vessels). If you merge the designs a bit, PN Milgems may happen...

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## madmusti

Dont Buy From Europe they hate US


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## Penguin

madmusti said:


> Dont Buy From Europe they hate US



Guess that's why most of the major ships in TN are of European design and the Italian A-129 the basis of your new attack helicopter... not to mention all those used Leo I and II.


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