# The Turkish Navy Superior To The Russian Black Sea Fleet ?



## xhw1986

*List of active ships of the Turkish Naval Forces*
*As of 2013, there are approximately 112 ships in commission (excluding minor auxiliary vessels) including; 16 frigates, 8 corvettes 14 submarines and various other ships.*

*Current ships*
*
Gabya-class*




TCG _Gaziantep_ (F-490)
TCG _Giresun_ (F-491)
TCG _Gemlik_ (F-492)
TCG _Gelibolu_ (F-493)
TCG _Gökçeada_ (F-494)
TCG _Gediz_ (F-495)
TCG _Gökova_ (F-496)
TCG _Göksu_ (F-497) 4,100 tonnes ex Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates.
*
Barbaros-class*




TCG _Barbaros_ (F-244)
TCG _Oruçreis_ (F-245)
TCG _Salihreis_ (F-246)
TCG _Kemalreis_ (F-247) 3,300 tonnes
*
Yavuz-class*




TCG _Yavuz_ (F-240)
TCG _Turgutreis_ (F-241)
TCG _Fatih_ (F-242)
TCG _Yıldırım_ (F-243) 3,000 tonnes
*
Ada-class*




TCG _Heybeliada_ (F-511)
TCG _Büyükada_ (F-512) 2,300 tonnes 6 more planned.
*
Burak-class*




TCG _Bozcaada_ (F-500)
TCG _Bodrum_ (F-501)
TCG _Bandırma_ (F-502)
TCG _Beykoz_ (F-503)
TCG _Bartın_ (F-504)
TCG _Bafra_ (F-505) 1,300 tonnes ex D'Estienne d'Orves-class avisos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine
*Atılay-class 209/1200*




TCG _Atılay_ (S-347)
TCG _Saldıray_ (S-348)
TCG _Batıray_ (S-349)
TCG _Yıldıray_ (S-350)
TCG _Doğanay_ (S-351)
TCG _Dolunay_ (S-352) 1,600 tonnes
*
Preveze-class 209T1/1400*




TCG _Preveze_ (S-353)
TCG _Sakarya_ (S-354)
TCG _18 Mart_ (S-355)
TCG _Anafartalar_ (S-356) 1,800 tonnes
*
Gür-class 209T2/1400*




TCG _Gür_ (S-357)
TCG _Çanakkale_ (S-358)
TCG _Burakreis_ (S-359)
TCG _I. İnönü_ (S-360) 1,800 tonnes
*
Missile boat*
9 _Kılıç_ class 550 tonnes
2 _Yıldız_ class 430 tonnes
4 _Rüzgar_ class 410 tonnes
4 _Doğan_ class 430 tonnes
8 _Kartal_ class 200 tonnes
*
Patrol boat*
6 AB-25 class 170 tonnes
4 PGM71 class
2 _Kalyon_ class
1 _Turgut_ class
10 _Tuzla_ class 400 tonnes
*
Mine countermeasures vessel*
6 _Aydın_ class 650 tonnes
5 _Engin_ class
3 _Felenk class_
5 _Seydi class_
*
Landing ship tank (LST)*
1 _Osman Gazi_ class 3,700 tonnes
2 _Saruca Bey_ class
1 _Ertuğrul_ class
17 _EDIC_ type
7 _Yeni_ type
*
Landing craft mechanized (LCM)*
16 _Ç-302_ type


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## LordTyrannus



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## T-123456

Why open such a thread?

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## nangyale

T-123456 said:


> Why open such a thread?



Exactly.
Are we going to make a comparison for 
Turkish Navy Vs Black Sea Fleet
Turkish Navy Vs IDF Navy
Turkish Navy Vs Italian Navy
Turkish Navy Vs ABC
Whats the point

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## Nomad16

T-123456 said:


> Why open such a thread?


cuz he wants the russians to respond for this than you respond them harder while he/she sits and enjoy

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## Neptune

Was this even a question....next please...

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## airmarshal

Is that whole Turkish nay or just Black Sea fleet. Thats a huge fleet man!

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## T-123456

airmarshal said:


> Is that whole Turkish nay or just Black Sea fleet. Thats a huge fleet man!


Turkish Navy.

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## Contrarian

Someone list the Russian Black Sea Fleet as well.


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## Neptune

airmarshal said:


> Is that whole Turkish nay or just Black Sea fleet. Thats a huge fleet man!




Northern Sea Area Command is alone superior to rusky Blacksea fleet. Plus, due to recent evens half the submarine fleet and a part of Southern Sea Area Command (Mediterranean) are deployed at Black Sea. Note that, TNF is a global player in terms of logistics which Russia lacks there seriously.

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## airmarshal

I m no way making to look Turkey insignificant, but Russia is a huge power. 

I dont think there is a match here. Plus, Russia is a vast country and it produces its own weapons. Turkey also does that, but dont produce all weapons its uses. Plus, Turkey does not have such a land mass as Russia has.


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## 500

Contrarian said:


> Someone list the Russian Black Sea Fleet as well.


1 type 1164 cruiser
1 type 877 sub
4 frigates: type 1134, type 1135, type 1135M and type 01090
9 missile boats/small corvettes
7 ASW boats/small corvettes

Frigates and cruiser are old (early 80-es - 70-es).

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## Contrarian

500 said:


> 1 type 1164 cruiser
> 1 type 877 sub
> 4 frigates: type 1134, type 1135, type 1135M and type 01090
> 9 missile boats/small corvettes
> 7 ASW boats/small corvettes
> 
> Frigates and cruiser are old (early 80-es - 70-es).


Then there really is no point comparing the Black Sea Fleet to the Turkish Navy.

Though I have to say, Turkey does have a nice sized Navy.

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## ELTurco

I like to read some war scenarios so guys my question is in these circumstances... how would the two fight eachother how long would it take to sink whole of Russian blacksea fleet and how would the Russia respond.

And what will be Turkeys next moves? anyone?

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## T-123456

6 U214TN Subs
6 Milgem Corvettes
4 TF 100 Frigates
8 TF 2000 AAW Frigates
Still to come.

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## xenon54 out

Get ready Turks another flamewar is coming toards us.

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## ELTurco

xenon54 said:


> Get ready Turks another flamewar is coming toards us.



We should discuss as normal people do no need for flamewars.

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## xenon54 out

ELTurco said:


> We should discuss as normal people do no need for flamewars.


That was a good one. 
You wanna check the other threads in Europe section?

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## ELTurco

xenon54 said:


> That was a good one.
> You wanna check the other threads in Europe section?



i would gladly wanna see them what particular thread do you mean?

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## -SINAN-

T-123456 said:


> 6 U214TN Subs
> 6 Milgem Corvettes
> 4 TF 100 Frigates
> 8 TF 2000 AAW Frigates
> Still to come.



+ 1 LHD

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## T-123456

Sinan said:


> + 1 LHD


The french are building two for Russia now.

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## xenon54 out

ELTurco said:


> i would gladly wanna see them what particular thread do you mean?


Take these for the beginning, there are some high quality military and policy analysts. 

Japan, Germany, France, Italy, USA, UK and Canada stand united against Russia

Breaking Kiev snipers hired by Ukraine opposition - leaked phone call

EU starts next round of sanctions against russia | Page 3

Merkel profits from russian agression

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## Hakan

LordTyrannus said:


>

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## faithfulguy

ELTurco said:


> I like to read some war scenarios so guys my question is in these circumstances... how would the two fight eachother how long would it take to sink whole of Russian blacksea fleet and how would the Russia respond.
> 
> And what will be Turkeys next moves? anyone?



If Turkey sink the Russian fleet. Than it could trigger WWIII as Russia could invade Turkey from the Caucasus. If US does not intervene, than NATO is finished and so US would intervene.


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## Hakan

faithfulguy said:


> If Turkey sink the Russian fleet. Than it could trigger WWIII as Russia could invade Turkey from the Caucasus. If US does not intervene, than NATO is finished and so US would intervene.


Russia could never invade Turkey. Atleast I wouldn't let it happen.

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## faithfulguy

Kaan said:


> Russia could never invade Turkey. Atleast I wouldn't let it happen.



If you are USA, you are correct.


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## vK_man

The real threat to turkey fleet and is not the black sea fleet. Its land based anti-ship and anti-submarine supersonic batteries alongside russian airforce. Also Russian forces will steam roll into various territories of Turkey via its rapid deployment forces like VDV like kars, the kurdish areas.Plus a lot of greek ,serbian volunteers will flood the region to join the russian army. Then comes the ballistic and cruise missile threats also.


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## Neptune

ELTurco said:


> I like to read some war scenarios so guys my question is in these circumstances... how would the two fight eachother how long would it take to sink whole of Russian blacksea fleet and how would the Russia respond.
> 
> And what will be Turkeys next moves? anyone?




After naval nomination there probably will be an air campaign. But things can change upon the side who attacked first.



Sinan said:


> + 1 LHD



Nope brother. +2 LHD

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## vostok

At the moment, the Black Sea Fleet is really weaker. However already now under construction six submarines 636.3 and six frigates11356, which will come into operation until 2016. Besides, can not be discounted coastal antiship missile complexes that shoot through almost all of the Black Sea.
However, this does not mean that Russian Black See Fleet will not win the battle with Turkey. Some advantage in the technique - it's not a victory.


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## Syrian Lion

I'm confused.... so the Turkish navy is better than the Russian navy? or just the black sea fleet alone??


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## vostok

Syrian Lion said:


> I'm confused.... so the Turkish navy is better than the Russian navy? or just the black sea fleet alone??


Of course Black See Fleet
It is not for long. Program of complete modernization of the Black Sea Fleet started, for these purposes Russia modernized shipyards and in plans soon will be created south shipbuilding center.
Besides, we must not forget that in many Russian ship missiles can be mounted tactical nuclear warheads - and they will be used if necessary. This will dramatically change the balance of forces.

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## Targon

No need to bring other scenarios into it, otherwise it will turn into another flamewar.

Op only compares Turkish navy and Russian black sea fleet, numbers and details are given, there is no need to further discuss.

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## Neptune

Syrian Lion said:


> I'm confused.... so the Turkish navy is better than the Russian navy? or just the black sea fleet alone??



TNF Northern Sea Area Command is better than the Russian Blacksea Fleet. Excluding the entire fleet size of both navies.

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## xenon54 out

faithfulguy said:


> If Turkey sink the Russian fleet. Than it could trigger WWIII as Russia could invade Turkey from the Caucasus. If US does not intervene, than NATO is finished and so US would intervene.


Sry but i dont see how Russia could invade Turkey, this is a whole another category than Crimea.

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## Hakan

vK_man said:


> The real threat to turkey fleet and is not the black sea fleet. Its land based anti-ship and anti-submarine supersonic batteries alongside russian airforce. Also Russian forces will steam roll into various territories of Turkey via its rapid deployment forces like VDV like kars, the kurdish areas.Plus a lot of greek ,serbian volunteers will flood the region to join the russian army. Then comes the ballistic and cruise missile threats also.



You don't even know who we are. If they couldn't take Afghanistan what makes you think they can take Turkey? Besides we aren't Ukraine or Georgia we actually have a powerful military.

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## vK_man

Kaan said:


> You don't even know who we are. If they couldn't take Afghanistan what makes you think they can take Turkey? Besides we aren't Ukraine or Georgia we actually have a powerful military.



Afghanistan was a guerilla war. Second, all the overt wars that happened were won by USSR(whether allied intervention in civil war russia,wars against nazis,wars in korea,crushing of Hungarian uprising or crushing of czech rebellion). .Afghanistan was a guerilla war. 

Second , turkey lost most of its wars to Russian empire.You almost were invaded by Stalin ,were the usa not to threaten atomic attack on Russia.


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## xenon54 out

vK_man said:


> Second , turkey lost most of its wars to Russian empire.You almost were invaded by Stalin ,were the usa not to threaten atomic attack on Russia.


Times have changed, Russia couldnt even make a full scale invasion of Crimea, what do think it will look like if they try to invade Turkey?
Dont forget that Turkey has one of the strongest militarys in the region.

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## vK_man

xenon54 said:


> Times have changed, Russia couldnt even make a full scale invasion of Crimea, what do think it will look like if they try to invade Turkey?
> Dont forget that Turkey has one of the strongest militarys in the region.



Russia has not launched an full scale invasion of ukraine or crimea .Yes,I know Turkey is one of the strongest.But Russia is still second strongest military on the planet and a military superpower still.

Russia is moving slow and steady on Ukraine ,for it does not wish to turn the population against itself.The last soviet recklessness made Eastern Europe hateful of Russia. Russia wishes to avoid that.

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## Hakan

vK_man said:


> Afghanistan was a guerilla war. Second, all the overt wars that happened were won by USSR(whether allied intervention in civil war russia,wars against nazis,wars in korea,crushing of Hungarian uprising or crushing of czech rebellion). .Afghanistan was a guerilla war.
> 
> Second , turkey lost most of its wars to Russian empire.You almost were invaded by Stalin ,were the usa not to threaten atomic attack on Russia.


If you only take into account the Ottoman Empire then yes we lost most of the wars to Russia but that was mainly due to geographic restrictions. (They had the advantage but still thats no excuse,) Secondly we actually conquered Russia but they never conquered us. They were also paying tributes to our Khanates for decades if not centuries. Thirdly our conventional capabilities are more than enough for Russia. Hitler once said "If i go to Turkey with 200.000 tanks, i will come back with 2!" Anyway no need to carry on with if this if that conversations.

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## kaykay

Russian black sea fleet seems weaker. Though Black sea is not very big so ground based cruise missiles and aircrafts with anti-ship missiles are enough to protect russian interest. Just my 2 cents.

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## flamer84

T-123456 said:


> The french are building two for Russia now.



One of them for the Black Sea Fleet,almost perfect for amphibious landings in Dobrogea.Thanks France,our NATO and EU partner !

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## LordTyrannus

flamer84 said:


> One of them for the Black Sea Fleet,almost perfect for amphibious landings in Dobrogea.Thanks France,our NATO and EU partner !


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## vK_man

Kaan said:


> If you only take into account the Ottoman Empire then yes we lost most of the wars to Russia but that was mainly due to geographic restrictions. (They had the advantage but still thats no excuse,) Secondly we actually conquered Russia they but they never conquered us. They were also paying tributes to our Khanates for decades if not centuries. Thirdly our conventional capabilities are more than enough for Russia. Hitler once said "If i go to Turkey with 200.000 tanks, i will come back with 2!" Anyway no need to carry on with if this if that conversations.



hunnic empire was not islamic .And I doubt your (turkey) conventional capability will suffice for russia.Second ottomans never conquered russia unless you are talking the tengri golden horde.again mongols were followers of tengrism not islam. and russia conquered central asia and mongolia too .


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## atatwolf

Turkish navy is strongest in the region. Russian outdated fleet would be on bottom of the Black sea within days. The sea is basically high way of the earth. We could push Russians back all the way back to Volga river with help of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and local muslims in Caucasia and above. The thing is Russian army is bigger but they have much much much bigger country. If they transfer from western or eastern front to Caucasus front, it will weaken their flanks so they can't do that. Russia's volume in land was its advantage, now it will be their weakness.

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## atatwolf

LordTyrannus said:


> No hostile Turk will ever reach my beloved Moscow. The world will burn before.


Wrong....

Tatar Turks conquered moscow and burned it, so you are double wrong..

First Tatar Turks reached Moscow, secondly it was in flames... thirdly Slavics had to pay tribute to us for centuries

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## Targon

Thats why I said stop posting, too many irrevelant flaming posts.


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## bantusoldier

turquia has better navy than russian one only in dream


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## LordTyrannus

atatwolf said:


> Wrong....
> 
> Tatar Turks conquered moscow and burned it, so you are double wrong..
> 
> First Tatar Turks reached Moscow, secondly it was in flames... thirdly Slavics had to pay tribute to us for centuries



Did your Turkish media show you what happened in Reyhanli?

Take a look:


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## Hakan

vK_man said:


> hunnic empire was not islamic .And I doubt your (turkey) conventional capability will suffice for russia.Second ottomans never conquered russia unless you are talking the tengri golden horde.again mongols were followers of tengrism not islam. and russia conquered central asia and mongolia too .


It doesn't matter if they were muslim or not. And we dont only have to talk about the ottomans. That was just a government not a whole people. The russians have had several governments in the past 100 years.


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## bantusoldier

russians always hated turks. read any old russian literature, somehow their anti turk hatred comes out. i was reading brothers karamazov and in several parts of the book, turks are demonized and made to look like monsters who kill babies for fun.

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## vK_man

Kaan said:


> It doesn't matter if they were muslim or not. And we dont only have to talk about the ottomans. That was just a government not a whole people. The russians have had several governments in the past 100 years.



Muslims turks and tengri turk/mongol totally different. If turks were following tengrism ,they would have still ruling the world. The mongol tengri empire was secular .Islam was the reason why Turks ultimately became so weak.

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## atatwolf

vK_man said:


> Muslims turks and tengri turk/mongol totally different. If turks were following tengrism ,they would have still ruling the world. The mongol tengri empire was secular .Islam was the reason why Turks ultimately became so weak.


True and not true. Turks conquered all worthy part of India under Moghul Empire. Hindu didn't conquer anything. They are busy with cows and stuff. Not violent enough. You are right on one thing Muslims didn't adopt industrialization and stopped technologic advancements for the sake of "that is god's business".

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## Hakan

atatwolf said:


> True and not true. Turks conquered all worthy part of India under Moghul Empire. Hindu didn't conquer anything. They are busy with cows and stuff. Not violent enough. You are right on one thing Muslims didn't adopt industrialization and stopped technologic advancements for the sake of "that is god's business".


But that was a wrong interpretation of islam. Look at the islamic golden age. At that time the muslims were #1 in everything including military. Any way this is off topic.

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## Contrarian

atatwolf said:


> True and not true. Turks conquered all worthy part of India under Moghul Empire. Hindu didn't conquer anything.


The Indian empires have been huge empires in their own right, comprising what is today India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh.Massive territory.



> They are busy with cows and stuff. Not violent enough.


But overall you are right. They did not sustain. It is true, we are not violent enough and that has been a reason for concern.
Fortunately, things are changing now. India and Indians are becoming more aggressive.

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## vK_man

atatwolf said:


> True and not true. Turks conquered all worthy part of India under Moghul Empire. Hindu didn't conquer anything. They are busy with cows and stuff. Not violent enough. You are right on one thing Muslims didn't adopt industrialization and stopped technologic advancements for the sake of "that is god's business".



you should check the mauryan empire .

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## Hakan




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## Contrarian

Neptune said:


> TNF Northern Sea Area Command is better than the Russian Blacksea Fleet. Excluding the entire fleet size of both navies.


What is Turkish Navy's expansion plan till 2025?


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## LordTyrannus

atatwolf said:


> True and not true. Turks conquered all worthy part of India under Moghul Empire. Hindu didn't conquer anything. They are busy with cows and stuff. Not violent enough. You are right on one thing Muslims didn't adopt industrialization and stopped technologic advancements for the sake of "that is god's business".



In the age of the sword your brutality and violence helped you to conquer some land, but in modern times your backward anti science teachings will only lead to your ultimate downfall. 

ups i mean


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## vK_man

atatwolf said:


> True and not true. Turks conquered all worthy part of India under Moghul Empire. Hindu didn't conquer anything. They are busy with cows and stuff. Not violent enough. You are right on one thing Muslims didn't adopt industrialization and stopped technologic advancements for the sake of "that is god's business".



turks would have lost it quickly also if it was not for Akbar's secular policies .Look at what happened to mughal empire under Aurangzeb when he started forcing islam on majority population.


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## Hakan

Contrarian said:


> What is Turkish Navy's expansion plan till 2025?


@Neptune if you have time can answer his question please?

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## Contrarian

vK_man said:


> turks would have lost it quickly also if it was not for Akbar's secular policies .Look at what happened to mughal empire under Aurangzeb when he started forcing muslims on majority population.


You are really going off topic.
The bottomline is that that militarily, Indian kingdoms of that age were defeated by the Central Asians. The Indian Kingdoms over the ages reduced their military efficacy and research in that field. The result was clear loss on the battlefield.

Now whether or not x/y/z would have sustained his empire is a different question.

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## Hakan

@vK_man are you Russian?


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## atatwolf

vK_man said:


> turks would have lost it quickly also if it was not for Akbar's secular policies .Look at what happened to mughal empire under Aurangzeb when he started forcing islam on majority population.


The point is, the only worthy thing in India is Tajmahal and that is built by us. That is answer enough for you.


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## vK_man

Kaan said:


> But that was a wrong interpretation of islam. Look at the islamic golden age. At that time the muslims were #1 in everything including military. Any way this is off topic.



There is no wrong intepretation of islam .And islamic golden age was on the back of the Zoroastrian research .Conquest of iran led to islamic golden age .Check Ali Sina if you like.



Kaan said:


> @vK_man are you Russian?



no.


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## Hakan

atatwolf said:


> The point is, the only worthy thing in India is Tajmahal and that is built by us. That is answer enough for you.


Abi they have other stuff too. They were a pretty advanced civilization back in the day.





vK_man said:


> There is no wrong intepretation of islam .And islamic golden age was on the back of the Zoroastrian research .Conquest of iran led to islamic golden age .Check Ali Sina if you like.


the point is that they encouraged science and learning. They developed alot of their own stuff to.

@al-Hasani @BLACKEAGLE @Yzd Khalifa you guys know more than me.

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## vK_man

atatwolf said:


> The point is, the only worthy thing in India is Tajmahal and that is built by us. That is answer enough for you.



@INDIC
@SarthakGanguly

And it is said that Taj Mahal was an old shaivite temple also by some also.
Photographic Evidence - Taj Mahal a Vedic Temple - Krishna Path

third,if islam is so powerful and 'innovative'why no muslim has won nobel prize or wolfgang or milner prize ?

Your islam is your bane. When Chechnya was follower of Judaism ,chechnya was known as khazaria and was very powerful in Europe .When chechnya became islamic,in a matter of years it was conquered by Russia ,same with circassia .Same story in central asia.When they were tengri ,they ruled asia and europe .When they became islamic they were conquered by Russia in a few centuries. 

Seems to me islam is your achilles heel.


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## Contrarian

atatwolf said:


> The point is, the only worthy thing in India is Tajmahal and that is built by us. That is answer enough for you.


Are you daft?
No, that is not even close to being the only worthy thing in India.
There are literally hundreds of ancient structures which are equal or better.

Or are you a troll and I just wasted my time in educating you?


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## Hakan

vK_man said:


> @INDIC
> @SarthakGanguly
> 
> And it is said that Taj Mahal was an old shaivite temple also by some also.
> Photographic Evidence - Taj Mahal a Vedic Temple - Krishna Path
> 
> third,if islam is so powerful and 'innovative'why no muslim has won nobel prize or wolfgang or milner prize ?


I never said that it was powerful today but when it was there was alot of inovation going on in all fields.


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## ELTurco

Kaan said:


> But that was a wrong interpretation of islam. Look at the islamic golden age. At that time the muslims were #1 in everything including military. Any way this is off topic.



Also Ottomans in its earlier times were good later the wrong interpretation of Islam become stronger that effected them in a bad way in the end lead it to its destruction.

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## atatwolf

Contrarian said:


> Are you daft?
> No, that is not even close to being the only worthy thing in India.
> There are literally hundreds of ancient structures which are equal or better.


I'm just telling you that Moghuls who were Turkics and Muslim also contributed to India. That was my point. You wanted to say Islam didn't cotnribute anything so you are the troll. The only thing I dispise from my cousin ancestors the Moghuls is that they slept with creatures called Indian women and wrote a book about the different positions.

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## Hakan

atatwolf said:


> I'm just telling you that Moghuls who were Turkics and Muslim also contributed to India. That was my point. You wanted to say Islam didn't cotnribute anything so you are the troll. The only thing I dispise from my cousin ancestors the Moghuls is that they slept with creatures called Indian women and wrote a book about the different positions.


I like this part:'m just telling you that Moghuls who were Turkics and Muslim also contributed to India. That was my point. You wanted to say Islam didn't cotnribute anything so you are the troll.

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## vK_man

atatwolf said:


> I'm just telling you that Moghuls who were Turkics and Muslim also contributed to India. That was my point. You wanted to say Islam didn't cotnribute anything so you are the troll. The only thing I dispise from my cousin ancestors the Moghuls is that they slept with creatures called Indian women and wrote a book about the different positions.





ELTurco said:


> Also Ottomans in its earlier times were good later the wrong interpretation of Islam become stronger also effected them in a bad way in the end lead it to its destruction.



check out ali sina's faith freedom. You might get an alternate view why turkic empires collapsed.


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## Hakan

vK_man said:


> check out ali sina's faith freedom. You might get an alternate view why turkic empires collapsed.


All empires collapsed including yours.


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## Contrarian

atatwolf said:


> I'm just telling you that Moghuls who were Turkics and Muslim also contributed to India. That was my point. You wanted to say Islam didn't cotnribute anything so you are the troll. The only thing I dispise from my cousin ancestors the Moghuls is that they slept with creatures called Indian women and wrote a book about the different positions.


Ofcourse they contributed to Indian culture.
As did the British and numerous others.

Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

As for your last statement. You really wish to get banned?

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## ELTurco

vK_man said:


> *There is no wrong intepretation of islam* .And islamic golden age was on the back of the Zoroastrian research .Conquest of iran led to islamic golden age .Check Ali Sina if you like.
> 
> 
> 
> no.



There is no wrong intepretaton of Islam?

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## Contrarian

vK_man said:


> check out ali sina's faith freedom. You might get an alternate view why turkic empires collapsed.


You really have to stop going weird. Feel free to start a new thread on why Turkic kingdoms collapsed.

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## vK_man

Kaan said:


> All empires collapsed including yours.



Yes, almost all very major empires in ancient ages at height were secular and during downfall were sectarian or extremist or ethnocentric.


Contrarian said:


> You really have to stop going weird. Feel free to start a new thread on why Turkic kingdoms collapsed.



okay. now chill. I am leaving this thread.


----------



## ELTurco

vK_man said:


> check out ali sina's faith freedom. You might get an alternate view why turkic empires collapsed.



Why ali sina faith freedom when we got the AHDNAMA OF FATIH SULTAN MEHMET it is the first declaration of human rights (485 years before 1948 International Human Rights Declaration.)

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## TurAr

Russia's time has passed gentlemen. Yeah, they might be undefeatable on their own turf, as they have always been. But nobody have any interests on those forsaken lands anyway. It will always end up being an old lone wolf against a pack.


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## ELTurco

atatwolf said:


> I'm just telling you that Moghuls who were Turkics and Muslim also contributed to India. That was my point. You wanted to say Islam didn't cotnribute anything so you are the troll. *The only thing I dispise from my cousin ancestors the Moghuls is that they slept with creatures called Indian women and wrote a book about the different positions*.



Are you serious the Kamasutra was written by them?

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## xenon54 out

What did i said? You cant expect a serious discussion if there are trolls patrolling around...

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## Contrarian

TurAr said:


> Russia's time has passed gentlemen. Yeah, they might be undefeatable on their own turf, as they have always been. But nobody have any interests on those forsaken lands anyway. *It will always end up being an old lone wolf against a pack.*


That is true.
Russia has failed to form proper economic and military alliances with strong countries.
For that matter, even China has failed in that. Their only real partners are Pakistan and North Korea. Hardly successful countries.

Only US has succeeded in forging an international alliance.



ELTurco said:


> Are you serious the Kamasutra was written by them?


No. That is an ancient Indian text.



ELTurco said:


> Why ali sina faith freedom when we got the AHDNAMA OF FATIH SULTAN MEHMET it is the first declaration of human rights (485 years before 1948 International Human Rights Declaration.)


I thought Cyrus was the first to declare Human Rights?

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## ELTurco

> I thought Cyrus was the first to declare Human Rights?



Well i dont know Cyrus but i can declare myself King of the planet its useless if nobody recognise it..

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## LordTyrannus




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## ELTurco

@Neptune 

Do we possess any carrier killer missiles?

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## bolo

If Albania tried to penetrate Turkey from the rear, will Greece help?


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## atatwolf

Y


ELTurco said:


> Are you serious the Kamasutra was written by them?


Yea, it is something all Turkics share... their lustfulness

lustful turk - Google Search

It was well known back in the time.

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## ELTurco

bolo said:


> If Albania tried to penetrate Turkey from the rear, will Greece help?



Does Albania have a military serious question and dont expect anything from the Greeks nowadays they are affraid of their own shadow.


----------



## ELTurco

atatwolf said:


> Y
> Yea, it is something all Turkics share... their lustfulness
> 
> lustful turk - Google Search
> 
> It was well known back in the time.



I am confused why the Indian denied it..


----------



## flamer84

xenon54 said:


> What did i said? You cant expect a serious discussion if there are trolls patrolling around...



Not one single thread in World Affairs,ME or Europe section is serious these days.All are clusterfucks with members throwing garbage upon garbage at each other.

My consolation these days on PDF are the Military related Sections,they are relatively kept clean and always full of new,interesting info.Pitty ,because we could have had good discussions here to if the moderation wouldn't be so laxed.

Was it so hard to have a navy vs navy comparison by numbers,weapons,technicalities ? No....they had to bring ethnicity into it,the retards with "we have nukeeess!! STRONK1111" also showed up like Russia would use nukes in a conventional warfare in the Black Sea.

Oh well...

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## Zarvan

Israeli navy is the weakest force among all it's forces and if turkey increase it's warships to 34 in which it should have cruise missile carrying destroyers and 18 submarines it would be real global player @Neptune @500

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## flamer84

Zarvan said:


> Israeli navy is the weakest force among all it's forces and if turkey increase it's warships to 34 in which it should have cruise missile carrying destroyers and 18 submarines it would be real global player @Neptune @500



Oh great,all that was missing was the jihadist fundamentalist dragging Israel into the discussion without any reason whatsoever.

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## atatwolf

ELTurco said:


> I am confused why the Indian denied it..


What did he deny?


----------



## ELTurco

atatwolf said:


> What did he deny?



I mean Kamasutra guess i misunderstood ah nevermind.


----------



## T-123456

Zarvan said:


> Israeli navy is the weakest force among all it's forces and if turkey increase it's warships to 34 in which it should have cruise missile carrying destroyers and 18 submarines it would be real global player @Neptune @500


They have Second Strike capable Dolphin Subs(4/5)dont underestimate them.


----------



## faithfulguy

xenon54 said:


> Sry but i dont see how Russia could invade Turkey, this is a whole another category than Crimea.



Without US protection, Russia can easily take over its former republics and roll into Turkey. The whole Europe can easily fall into Russian hands. Turkey won't stand a chance.


atatwolf said:


> Turkish navy is strongest in the region. Russian outdated fleet would be on bottom of the Black sea within days. The sea is basically high way of the earth. We could push Russians back all the way back to Volga river with help of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and local muslims in Caucasia and above. The thing is Russian army is bigger but they have much much much bigger country. If they transfer from western or eastern front to Caucasus front, it will weaken their flanks so they can't do that. Russia's volume in land was its advantage, now it will be their weakness.



You must be smoking something high. Turkey is at the protection of US military. Just because US is protecting you doesn't mean that you can go out there and pick a fight.

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## T-123456

flamer84 said:


> One of them for the Black Sea Fleet,almost perfect for amphibious landings in Dobrogea.Thanks France,our NATO and EU partner !


Its just business.


----------



## anatolia

faithfulguy said:


> Without US protection, Russia can easily take over its former republics and roll into Turkey. The whole Europe can easily fall into Russian hands. Turkey won't stand a chance.
> 
> 
> You must be smoking something high. Turkey is at the protection of US military. Just because US is protecting you doesn't mean that you can go out there and pick a fight.


yes right.. Turks was under Us protecton for 1000 years.. thanks Usa

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## faithfulguy

anatolia said:


> yes right.. Turks was under Us protecton for 1000 years.. thanks Usa



this is true after WWII till today. The whole Western Europe, Southern Europe and Turkey have been under US protection. This organization is known as NATO and the commander of NATO is always a US general. If you don't believe me, look it up.


----------



## atatwolf

faithfulguy said:


> Without US protection, Russia can easily take over its former republics and roll into Turkey. The whole Europe can easily fall into Russian hands. Turkey won't stand a chance.
> 
> 
> You must be smoking something high. Turkey is at the protection of US military. Just because US is protecting you doesn't mean that you can go out there and pick a fight.


Turkey won't pick a fight but if Russia starts creeping up on our borders and trying to reinstate the Soviet Union Turkey is ready to defend Azerbaijan/Georgia, along with the rest of Caucasus front.



faithfulguy said:


> this is true after WWII till today. The whole Western Europe, Southern Europe and Turkey have been under US protection. This organization is known as NATO and the commander of NATO is always a US general. If you don't believe me, look it up.



More like Europe needed us. If we wanted we could join Russia against Europe but that was obviously not the best choice.


----------



## anatolia

faithfulguy said:


> this is true after WWII till today. The whole Western Europe, Southern Europe and Turkey have been under US protection. This organization is known as NATO and the commander of NATO is always a US general. If you don't believe me, look it up.


. just tell me when Us fought for Turks?i can tell you many thing Turks were in Korea afghanistan etc.


----------



## faithfulguy

atatwolf said:


> Turkey won't pick a fight but if Russia starts creeping up on our borders and trying to reinstate the Soviet Union Turkey is ready to defend Azerbaijan/Georgia, along with the rest of Caucasus front.
> 
> 
> 
> More like Europe needed us. If we wanted we could join Russia against Europe but that was obviously not the best choice.



True, Turkey is in the position of siding with US or Russia. Just like Poland was in the position of siding with Hitler or Stalin.

Since Turkey is a NATO country, it has already come under the protection of US. If you don't need US protection, you would have been out of NATO in no time.



anatolia said:


> . just tell me when Us fought for Turks?i can tell you many thing Turks were in Korea afghanistan etc.



Its good to hear that Turks contributed to UN. In that case, India and Pakistan contributed more forces for "peace keeping'

Just curious, how many US bases are there in Turkey? Can you enumerate them for me?


----------



## anatolia

faithfulguy said:


> True, Turkey is in the position of siding with US or Russia. Just like Poland was in the position of siding with Hitler or Stalin.
> 
> Since Turkey is a NATO country, it has already come under the protection of US. If you don't need US protection, you would have been out of NATO in no time.
> 
> 
> 
> Its good to hear that Turks contributed to UN. In that case, India and Pakistan contributed more forces for "peace keeping'
> 
> Just curious, how many US bases are there in Turkey? Can you enumerate them for me?


why dont you say we are ally instead of Turks are under Us protection?i think sound better



faithfulguy said:


> True, Turkey is in the position of siding with US or Russia. Just like Poland was in the position of siding with Hitler or Stalin.
> 
> Since Turkey is a NATO country, it has already come under the protection of US. If you don't need US protection, you would have been out of NATO in no time.
> 
> 
> 
> Its good to hear that Turks contributed to UN. In that case, India and Pakistan contributed more forces for "peace keeping'
> 
> Just curious, how many US bases are there in Turkey? Can you enumerate them for me?


Un???? it is funny


----------



## Neptune

ELTurco said:


> @Neptune
> 
> Do we possess any carrier killer missiles?



Nope we don't. Our current anti ship missile inventory consists by Harpoon, Excoket and Atmaca at close future



Zarvan said:


> Israeli navy is the weakest force among all it's forces and if turkey increase it's warships to 34 in which it should have cruise missile carrying destroyers and 18 submarines it would be real global player @Neptune @500




We currently posse the largest fleet within Nato after USN. All we need is improved blue water capabilities which TF-2000 and LHD will fill it 4 years later.

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## Neptune

Contrarian said:


> What is Turkish Navy's expansion plan till 2025?



I'm pretty busy now mate. will reply to you later ASAP.

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## vostok

You just do not brag too much, comrades Turks. To destroy Turkey as a state enough one volley of Russian submarine with ballistic missiles.

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## vK_man

atatwolf said:


> Turkey won't pick a fight but if Russia starts creeping up on our borders and trying to reinstate the Soviet Union Turkey is ready to defend Azerbaijan/Georgia, along with the rest of Caucasus front.
> 
> 
> 
> More like Europe needed us. If we wanted we could join Russia against Europe but that was obviously not the best choice.



Do you work for comedy central?


vostok said:


> You just do not brag too much, comrades Turks. To destroy Turkey as a state enough one volley of Russian submarine with ballistic missiles.



some will never learn,vostok.


----------



## xenon54 out

vostok said:


> You just do not brag too much, comrades Turks. To destroy Turkey as a state enough one volley of Russian submarine with ballistic missiles.


Comrade dont forget.

Nuclear sharing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But actually Turks didnt want this thread, just saying.

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## T-123456

vostok said:


> You just do not brag too much, comrades Turks. To destroy Turkey as a state enough one volley of Russian submarine with ballistic missiles.


Comrade Vostok,leave the ballistic missiles,you dont want to kill your one millìon tourist countrymen do you?
Nobody wants war with Russia.

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## vostok

xenon54 said:


> Comrade dont forget.
> 
> Nuclear sharing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> But actually Turks didnt want this thread, just saying.


I do not want Russia to fight against Turkey. Moreover, I hope that in a few years we will be allies. I just do not like that some looking down at Russia.

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## xenon54 out

vostok said:


> I do not want Russia to fight against Turkey. Moreover, I hope that in a few years we will be allies. I just do not like that some looking down at Russia.


We have respect for Russia and Russians generally, just not for trolls.

Btw: congrats for beeing Think tank.

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## vostok

xenon54 said:


> We have respect to Russia and Russians generally, just not to trolls.
> 
> Btw: congrats for beeing Think thank.


 Thanks!

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## T-123456

vostok said:


> I do not want Russia to fight against Turkey. Moreover, I hope that in a few years we will be allies. I just do not like that some looking down at Russia.


Comrade,i didnt see congratulations nazdarovya

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## vostok

T-123456 said:


> Comrade,i didnt see congratulations nazdarovya


 Thanks!

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## Parul

vostok said:


> Thanks!



Congratulations Mate!


----------



## TurAr

vostok said:


> You just do not brag too much, comrades Turks. To destroy Turkey as a state enough one volley of Russian submarine with ballistic missiles.



Thank you for your in-depth analysis. Russia Stro0onk!!1








Seriously, WTF? They have created another Safriz

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## flamer84

TurAr said:


> Thank you for your in-depth analysis. Russia Stro0onk!!1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, WTF? They have created another Safriz



I was thinking just the same LOL...Going from thread to thread denying every russian genocide out there,praising stalin as a good leader done wrong by "evil western media" and screaming Russia STROOONK111 gets you a think tank 

Next think tank i believe it will be @Fukuoka

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## TurAr

flamer84 said:


> I was thinking just the same LOL...Going from thread to thread denying every russian genocide out there,praising stalin as a good leader done wrong by "evil western media" and screaming Russia STROOONK111 gets you a think tank
> 
> Next think tank i believe it will be @Fukuoka



Wouldn't surprise me at all.

"PDF THINK TANK: JEW! HUNTER"

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## flamer84

TurAr said:


> Wouldn't surprise me at all.
> 
> "PDF THINK TANK: JEW! HUNTER"


----------



## LordTyrannus

TurAr said:


> Thank you for your in-depth analysis. Russia Stro0onk!!1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, WTF? They have created another Safriz


----------



## Contrarian

ELTurco said:


> I am confused why the Indian denied it..


I said Kamasutra was written in ancient India. Nothing to do with Mughals.

I dont know what lustful turk means.


----------



## Srinivas

atatwolf said:


> I'm just telling you that Moghuls who were Turkics and Muslim also contributed to India. That was my point. You wanted to say Islam didn't cotnribute anything so you are the troll. The only thing I dispise from my cousin ancestors the Moghuls is that they slept with creatures called Indian women and wrote a book about the different positions.



Dude !!

Mughals integrated into Indian society, they only built some structures from the wealth of this land and most of the structures are built after demolishing temples.

Mughals are seen as invaders and Hindus never accepted them as rulers nor they are seen as legitimate authority.

there are few exceptions like Akbar.

central Asian Mongoloid turks are not good looking either.

What contributions do these Central Asian nomadic tribes did to human kind??

Kamasutra, Aurveda, metallurgy, Astronomy, numericals, infinity, zero, etc...etc.. are done by Indians and during Mughal period Indian scientific field was declining.


----------



## atatwolf

Are Russians threatening us with Nuclear weapons? It only means that Russians on this forum ran out of arguments and are intimidated my Turkish fleet that they throw armagedon on the table....

Obviously any nuclear strike on Turkey will be answered with nuclear strike back. Plus NATO will take this opportunity to annihilate Russia since if they nuke Turkey, they are next.

In open warfare nukes won't be used. Only as last card, whenn one country is pushed in the corner, a nuke might be used which might be end of the world. I believe no such thing will happen with Russia since when Soviet collapsed they didn't nuke everybody they just retreated in a corner and licked their wounds. A collapse of Russian Federation willl be the same.

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## senheiser

xhw1986 said:


> *List of active ships of the Turkish Naval Forces*
> *As of 2013, there are approximately 112 ships in commission (excluding minor auxiliary vessels) including; 16 frigates, 8 corvettes 14 submarines and various other ships.*
> 
> *Current ships*
> *Gabya-class*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TCG _Gaziantep_ (F-490)
> TCG _Giresun_ (F-491)
> TCG _Gemlik_ (F-492)
> TCG _Gelibolu_ (F-493)
> TCG _Gökçeada_ (F-494)
> TCG _Gediz_ (F-495)
> TCG _Gökova_ (F-496)
> TCG _Göksu_ (F-497) 4,100 tonnes ex Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates.
> *Barbaros-class*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TCG _Barbaros_ (F-244)
> TCG _Oruçreis_ (F-245)
> TCG _Salihreis_ (F-246)
> TCG _Kemalreis_ (F-247) 3,300 tonnes
> *Yavuz-class*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TCG _Yavuz_ (F-240)
> TCG _Turgutreis_ (F-241)
> TCG _Fatih_ (F-242)
> TCG _Yıldırım_ (F-243) 3,000 tonnes
> *Ada-class*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TCG _Heybeliada_ (F-511)
> TCG _Büyükada_ (F-512) 2,300 tonnes 6 more planned.
> *Burak-class*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TCG _Bozcaada_ (F-500)
> TCG _Bodrum_ (F-501)
> TCG _Bandırma_ (F-502)
> TCG _Beykoz_ (F-503)
> TCG _Bartın_ (F-504)
> TCG _Bafra_ (F-505) 1,300 tonnes ex D'Estienne d'Orves-class avisos.
> *Atılay-class 209/1200*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TCG _Atılay_ (S-347)
> TCG _Saldıray_ (S-348)
> TCG _Batıray_ (S-349)
> TCG _Yıldıray_ (S-350)
> TCG _Doğanay_ (S-351)
> TCG _Dolunay_ (S-352) 1,600 tonnes
> *Preveze-class 209T1/1400*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TCG _Preveze_ (S-353)
> TCG _Sakarya_ (S-354)
> TCG _18 Mart_ (S-355)
> TCG _Anafartalar_ (S-356) 1,800 tonnes
> *Gür-class 209T2/1400*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TCG _Gür_ (S-357)
> TCG _Çanakkale_ (S-358)
> TCG _Burakreis_ (S-359)
> TCG _I. İnönü_ (S-360) 1,800 tonnes
> *Missile boat*
> 9 _Kılıç_ class 550 tonnes
> 2 _Yıldız_ class 430 tonnes
> 4 _Rüzgar_ class 410 tonnes
> 4 _Doğan_ class 430 tonnes
> 8 _Kartal_ class 200 tonnes
> *Patrol boat*
> 6 AB-25 class 170 tonnes
> 4 PGM71 class
> 2 _Kalyon_ class
> 1 _Turgut_ class
> 10 _Tuzla_ class 400 tonnes
> *Mine countermeasures vessel*
> 6 _Aydın_ class 650 tonnes
> 5 _Engin_ class
> 3 _Felenk class_
> 5 _Seydi class_
> *Landing ship tank (LST)*
> 1 _Osman Gazi_ class 3,700 tonnes
> 2 _Saruca Bey_ class
> 1 _Ertuğrul_ class
> 17 _EDIC_ type
> 7 _Yeni_ type
> *Landing craft mechanized (LCM)*
> 16 _Ç-302_ type

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## olcayto

Some Russians here truly have a inferiority complex. The question is simple. 
Is the tnf superior than the black Sea fleet.

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## LordTyrannus

olcayto said:


> Some Russians here truly have a inferiority complex. The question is simple.
> Is the tnf superior than the black Sea fleet.



Yes we can bring total destruction to your house with nuclear sunburst.

Get over it.

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## Hakan

LordTyrannus said:


> Yes we can bring total destruction to your house with nuclear sunburst.
> 
> Get over it.

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## olcayto

LordTyrannus said:


> Yes we can bring total destruction to your house with nuclear sunburst.
> 
> Get over it.



See here, a prime example of a Russian inferiority.

He needs to change of subject so he can avoid the actual question, who's answer damages his manhood.
On top of that he needs to put a big picture, to extra compensate for his inferiority complex.
İt's just like a guy with a small weenie buying a lamborghini as a compensation for his mini dwick.

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## LordTyrannus

Russian Tactical Nukes (20 Kilo Tons) used on Turkish fleet (sinking it with a single strike) would not escalate a full global Shotout. I dont think US Forces would retaliate for Turkey. They would propably give you the keys for some outdated B61 bombs to mount on your F16s, but none of your birds would ever manage to penetrate Russian Air defence. No chance.





no chance


----------



## TurAr

LordTyrannus said:


> Russian Tactical Nukes (20 Kilo Tons) used on Turkish fleet (sinking it with a single strike)* would not escalate a full global Shotout*. I dont think US Forces would retaliate for Turkey. They would propably give you the keys for some outdated B61 bombs to mount on your F16s, but none of your birds would ever manage to penetrate Russian Air defence. No chance.
> 
> no chance



It would end up being a radioactive wasteland., lol.

You are not even Russian, why do you care so much?

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## Azeri440

TurAr said:


> It would end up being a radioactive wasteland., lol.
> 
> You are not even Russian, why do you care so much?




don't mind the guy , his Shrink is on vacation

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## Neptune

Contrarian said:


> What is Turkish Navy's expansion plan till 2025?



Sorry mate it's been a little late, anyways.

The Turkish Navy is currently undergoing several modernization programmes to replace its ageing equipment. As of 2013 its major projects are as follows:


The construction works of twelve MILGEM project warships (8 _Ada_ class corvettes and 4 _TF-100_ class frigates) are currently ongoing. The first vessel, F-511 TCG _Heybeliada_, was commissioned in 2011. The second, TCG Büyükada was commissioned by the end of 2013.
Plans to build a total of four _TF-2000_ class air-defence frigates with the option for two more.[25][26] As of December 2012, Turkey may acquire up to eight of the new frigates.[27]
The acquisition of six Type 214 AIP submarines was approved by the Turkish Ministry of Defense on 12 December 2006. Expected to be built by this year.
The acquisition of a Landing Helicopter Dock(LHD) was approved on 12 December 2006. SSM has chosen Navantia's Juan Carlos design.
New LST class (+2 approved on 12 December 2006)[32][37]
LCT class (+8 approved on 12 December 2006)[32]
New Fleet Replenishment Tanker (FRT) class
Submarine Rescue Mother Ship (+1 approved)[38]
Rescue & Towing Ship (+2 approved)

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## Neptune

Kaan said:


> @Neptune
> 
> as of now we have 1 milgem that is gone to africa, 2 frigates gone to africa, 1 replenishment ship gone to africa, and 1 frigate is now in Qatar. What is your opinion on this considering the current situation in Ukraine?



Add +1 frigate at NATO-OOS deployment, +1 frigate at CTF deployment. I dont know what the hell the government is trying to do with the navy. Everybody's aware of the heavy Russian military presence. Wiping out the Russian Black Sea Fleet would be a piece of cake. But recently Russians doubled their submarine fleet in Black Sea. I mean. Higher or lower, threat is a threat. They should have postponed that overseas deployment. Read this. An interview with the formal commander of the fleet Ex-Adm. Nusret Güner. 


Emekli amiral uyardı: Kabul edilemez - Gerçek Gündem

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## Superboy

It is a moot point. The Black Sea Fleet never fights alone. Some memories can be seen at Battle of Sinop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Arya Desa

turkish navy superior to Russia? Get a load of these guys!

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## Neptune

Arya Desa said:


> turkish navy superior to Russia? Get a load of these guys!



Being a former servicemen, I can assure you that Northern Sea Area Command can neutralize Russian Black Sea Fleet within 72 hours. That was the subject.


----------



## Contrarian

Neptune said:


> Being a former servicemen, I can assure you that Northern Sea Area Command can neutralize Russian Black Sea Fleet within 72 hours. That was the subject.


Can Russia bring another fleet to join the Black Sea Fleet?
If yes, how long does it take?



Arya Desa said:


> turkish navy superior to Russia? Get a load of these guys!


He did not say that.
He said its superior to the Russian Black Sea Fleet, not the entire Russian Navy put together.


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## Neptune

egodoc222 said:


> i find it strange when some call turkey as a country!!!
> let alone being powerful!
> after all slaves are slaves!!!




@Aeronaut @WebMaster

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## Neptune

Contrarian said:


> Can Russia bring another fleet to join the Black Sea Fleet?
> If yes, how long does it take?
> 
> 
> He did not say that.
> He said its superior to the Russian Black Sea Fleet, not the entire Russian Navy put together.



The closest Russian surface combatants are the Baltic Fleet which may take more than a month. But before that they ll have to pass Mediterranean. It means that to reach Black Sea, they firstly have to deal with; Southern Sea Area Command, 1st Tactical Air Force (TURAF), US 6th Fleet, SNMG-1 (Standing NATO Maritime Group One), STRIKFORNATO...etc.

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## atatwolf

Black sea, Agean sea and east-Med sea is a Turkish sea. Nobody can compete with Turkish fleet in these waters. Everbody knows their place.


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## xenon54 out

Beidou2020 said:


> Does Turkey even have a Navy?


Is not able to read the OP, 39 years old and has nothing better to do than humiliating himself on the internet.

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## AUSTERLITZ

ELTurco said:


> I like to read some war scenarios so guys my question is in these circumstances... how would the two fight eachother how long would it take to sink whole of Russian blacksea fleet and how would the Russia respond.
> 
> And what will be Turkeys next moves? anyone?



Russian answer would likely be massed backfire bombers coming in low with salvoes of supersonic cruise missiles.In any case russian black sea fleet would not stand much chance alone,except in defensive role under umbrella of s-300/400 batteries and shore based AshCMs.The main problem for turkey would be russian land forces which is where russia would like to make its true punch.But this whole scenario is one laughably imaginery anyway,so LOL.


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## Huawei

@ Turkey believing they have a chance against Russia. Iraq had a better chance against America than Turkey does against Russia. Turkey barely has a military let alone a Navy.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Neptune

Huawei said:


> @ Turkey believing they have a chance against Russia. Iraq had a better chance against America than Turkey does against Russia. Turkey barely has a military let alone a Navy.



Enjoy your negative fellow troll.

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## Hasbara Buster

The one who is superior is the one who is more just, peaceful and humane.


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## LordTyrannus

Hasbara Buster said:


> The one who is superior is the one who is more just, peaceful and humane.



No. The one superior is the most ruthless one.


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## Superboy

How many Russian air force Su-27 / 35 are based at the Belbek air base in Sevastopol? At least two squadrons?


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## Neptune

LordTyrannus said:


> I wonder how much hours would it take Russia to neutralize all turkish navy?



Probably months when considering ruskys logistic capabilities. But the entire NRF of NATO will be deployed in Black Sea Region within 24 hours. If you keep trolling I will start to give negative ratings to your troll posts here starting with page 1.

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## Tsilihin

All this conversation now look like about - which dick is bigger. 
If entire NRF of NATO are deployed in Black Sea, that means conquest of Russian Federation , all of us will be immediately seen with Muhammad,Buddha,Jesus,Brahma...uncle Devil.


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## ptldM3

Neptune said:


> Probably months when considering ruskys logistic capabilities. But the entire NRF of NATO will be deployed in Black Sea Region within 24 hours. If you keep trolling I will start to give negative ratings to your troll posts here starting with page 1.




Stop talking nonsense and pretending you are an expert. One of the decisive factors in the Georgian victory was the logistics capabilities particularly the heavy transport aircraft which were able to overwhelm the Georgian military with around the clock sorties in which soldiers and equipment were constantly on the move. 

Now in terms of Russian navy where are they lacking in logistics? In reality the Russian navy does not need much of any logistics when operating in the black sea. many Russian submarines are nuclear powered, and have the ability to stay submerged for months, they dont need fuel and they dont need to resurface the only limit of endurance i the food supply. Apart from that anti submarine aircraft need need no logistics other then then the basic maintenance which is performed at the air base.

And earlier you were bragging about Turkish submarines purchased from Germany. Look at the age of the submarines and realize that they are diesel powered and old at that. not to mention they are off the shelf submarines that are operated by even 3rd world countries. The saying is that you get what you pay for, turkish submarines cost around $300 million and less while Russian subs cost around $3.5 billions. Russian subs are faster, quieter, have unlimited endurance, and have deeper dive depths. Theoretically there is not a single ship or submarine in the Turkish navy that can challenge something like the Yasen.

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## Neptune

ptldM3 said:


> Stop talking nonsense and pretending you are an expert.



No one here claims to be anything unlike you the fanboys of russia.




> One of the decisive factors in the Georgian victory was the logistics capabilities particularly the heavy transport aircraft which were able to overwhelm the Georgian military with around the clock sorties in which soldiers and equipment were constantly on the move.



By this logic, Iran has superior logistics when thinking Iran-Iraqi War. But Turkey is not Georgia nor Iran. We are not alike the tantrum loving Russia, so I won't post the whole fancy toys we had. Georgia was your, ehem ehem sorry, Georgia was Russia's backyard. 



> Now in terms of Russian navy where are they lacking in logistics? In reality the Russian navy does not need much of any logistics when operating in the black sea.



That was one of the moat ignorant posts I've ever read. Russia lacks well at Black Sea. Even they admitted it. Besides that you don't know a single damn thing about logistics in terms of naval warfare. I was thaught that before. But instead. I will not explain that all those doctrinal definitions as then I'd look like to "pretend to be expert" right? something you russian dolls are very familiar of.



> many Russian submarines are nuclear powered, and have the ability to stay submerged for months, they dont need fuel and they dont need to resurface the only limit of endurance i the food supply.



Yea. But tell me how many Russian subs in Black Sea are nuclear or AIP? Zero. How many of Russian Black Sea combatants have guided-missile roles? Not more than a half dozen.




> Apart from that anti submarine aircraft need need no logistics other then then the basic maintenance which is performed at the air base.



WTF? Bitch please...



> And earlier you were bragging about Turkish submarines purchased from Germany. Look at the age of the submarines and realize that they are diesel powered and old at that. not to mention they are off the shelf submarines that are operated by even 3rd world countries. The saying is that you get what you pay for, turkish submarines cost around $300 million and less while Russian subs cost around $3.5 billions. Russian subs are faster, quieter, have unlimited endurance, and have deeper dive depths. Theoretically there is not a single ship or submarine in the Turkish navy that can challenge something like the Yasen.



Well tell me how many countries do operate the Type209.1400. Turkish submarines have the sub surface Harpoon missile launching capabilty. Only South Korea and few other Type209 operators have that. Again your statements are childish. Before everything. Ask a naval officer what exactly the logistics do mean in terms of naval warfare. Then come to discuss.



Tsilihin said:


> All this conversation now look like about - which dick is bigger.
> If entire NRF of NATO are deployed in Black Sea, that means conquest of Russian Federation , all of us will be immediately seen with Muhammad,Buddha,Jesus,Brahma...uncle Devil.



NRF consists by 60,000 NATO servicemen you idiot. You can't even conquer 1/20 of Russia with that.

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## LordTyrannus

ptldM3 said:


> Stop talking nonsense and pretending you are an expert. One of the decisive factors in the Georgian victory was the logistics capabilities particularly the heavy transport aircraft which were able to overwhelm the Georgian military with around the clock sorties in which soldiers and equipment were constantly on the move.
> 
> Now in terms of Russian navy where are they lacking in logistics? In reality the Russian navy does not need much of any logistics when operating in the black sea. many Russian submarines are nuclear powered, and have the ability to stay submerged for months, they dont need fuel and they dont need to resurface the only limit of endurance i the food supply. Apart from that anti submarine aircraft need need no logistics other then then the basic maintenance which is performed at the air base.
> 
> And earlier you were bragging about Turkish submarines purchased from Germany. Look at the age of the submarines and realize that they are diesel powered and old at that. not to mention they are off the shelf submarines that are operated by even 3rd world countries. The saying is that you get what you pay for, turkish submarines cost around $300 million and less while Russian subs cost around $3.5 billions. Russian subs are faster, quieter, have unlimited endurance, and have deeper dive depths. Theoretically there is not a single ship or submarine in the Turkish navy that can challenge something like the Yasen.




Watch out he can give you a negative ranking. I think he is a real "expert" and is a former fisherman or something like that, he claims it at least...



Neptune said:


> NRF consists by 60,000 NATO servicemen *you idiot.* You can't even conquer 1/20 of Russia with that.



Your post is reported for insulting another user.


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## Neptune

LordTyrannus said:


> Watch out he can give you a negative ranking. I think he is a real "expert" and is a former fisherman or something like that, he claims it at least...
> 
> 
> 
> Your post is reported for insulting another user.



youu attaboy


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## LordTyrannus

Rofl. you are giving negative ratings in personal vendetta. You are the poorest guy i have ever met on the internet. And i am surfing for decades now!

This is the internet ranking for you.

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## olcayto

LordTyrannus said:


> Rofl. you are giving negative ratings in personal vendetta. You are the poorest guy i have ever met on the internet. And i am surfing for decades now!
> 
> This is the internet ranking for you.



Well, that you actually care that he's giving you negative ratings, makes you the loser 

Oooh noooooo, negative ratings

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## LordTyrannus

olcayto said:


> Well, that you actually care that he's giving you negative ratings, makes you the loser
> 
> Oooh noooooo, negative ratings




Who says that i give a ****? he is the one threatening people with it.




Neptune said:


> Enjoy your negative fellow troll.





Neptune said:


> I will start to give negative ratings to your troll posts here starting with page 1.





You and your turkish comrade.

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## olcayto

LordTyrannus said:


> Who says that i give a ****? he is the one threatening people with it.
> 
> You and your turkish comrade.

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## Huawei

Before day dreaming about taking on anyone's military, change the name of your country.

I mean who the F calls their country 'Turkey'?

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## Superboy

What's the point of comparing Turkey's whole navy with the Black Sea fleet?  The Northern fleet and the Pacific fleet are much more most powerful.

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## Huawei

Superboy said:


> What's the point of comparing Turkey's whole navy with the Black Sea fleet?  The Northern fleet and the Pacific fleet are much more most powerful.



Russian coastguard could crush Turkey's Navy.

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## olcayto

Huawei said:


> Before day dreaming about taking on anyone's military, change the name of your country.
> 
> I mean who the F calls their country 'Turkey'?



Waiting for the coin to drop and that you realize that Turkey is the way that only english speaking countries have chosen to adress Turkey in that way. 

Tell me when you realize it.

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## LordTyrannus

olcayto said:


>



Here is your butthurt. 


Neptune said:


> Enjoy your negative fellow troll.





Neptune said:


> I will start to give negative ratings to your troll posts here starting with page 1.


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## Huawei

olcayto said:


> Waiting for the coin to drop and that you realize that Turkey is the way that only english speaking countries have chosen to adress Turkey in that way.
> 
> Tell me when you realize it.



LOL of all the names to choose, you chose Turkey?

Are you for real mate?

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## BronzePlaque

Huawei said:


> Before day dreaming about taking on anyone's military, change the name of your country.
> 
> I mean who the F calls their country 'Turkey'?



Your idiocy made me laugh bro..Kudos to you...We really need good clowns like yourself..Keep up the good work and continue to amuse us

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## olcayto

Huawei said:


> LOL of all the names to choose, you chose Turkey?
> 
> Are you for real mate?



Mate, at the moment you're only showing how dumb you are.
Turkey is the way the English chose to adress Turkey.
İn Turkish it's called Türkiye
German Turkei.
Dutch. Turkije.

Last thing not that it matters. The bird Turkey is named after the state of Turkey, not the other way around.


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## LordTyrannus

Huawei said:


> LOL of all the names to choose, you chose Turkey?
> 
> Are you for real mate?

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## olcayto

LordTyrannus said:


> Here is your butthurt.



Goood good, scream the butthurt pain out


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## Huawei

olcayto said:


> Mate, at the moment you're only showing how dumb you are.
> Turkey is the way the English chose to adress Turkey.
> İn Turkish it's called Türkiye
> German Turkei.
> Dutch. Turkije.
> 
> Last thing not that it matters. The bird Turkey is named after the state of Turkey, not the other way around.



Your named after a useless bird


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## olcayto

Huawei said:


> Your named after a useless bird



Woops, where the intelligence ands stupidity takes over.

Thx for the laugh anyway.


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## Huawei

olcayto said:


> Woops, where the intelligence ands stupidity takes over.
> 
> Thx for the laugh anyway.



you're most welcome


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## xenon54 out

Huawei said:


> you're most welcome


Arent you this 39 years old illiterate Chinese guys who got banned after my report? What was your name? Beidu?
Thell me what causes your Butthurt, use vaseline next time maybe it will help.

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## ptldM3

Neptune said:


> *No one here claims to be anything* unlike you the fanboys of russia.





*You* have been claiming many things such as being in the Turkish military, you then used those weak credentials, if they are even real, to make claims that are way above your pay grade. 






Neptune said:


> By this logic, Iran has superior logistics when thinking Iran-Iraqi War. But Turkey is not Georgia nor Iran. We are not alike the tantrum loving Russia, so I won't post the whole fancy toys we had. Georgia was your, ehem ehem sorry, Georgia was Russia's backyard.





The above quote is a lot of nothing but ranting. I brought up the logistics situation in Georgia as an example of how Russia is efficient at logistics, i'm not sure what Iran has anything to do with the topic. But the fact is Russia has one of the largest strategic transport fleets in the world and if Georgia was Russia's backyard then so is the black sea. 




Neptune said:


> That was one of the moat ignorant posts I've ever read. Russia lacks well at Black Sea. Even they admitted it. Besides that you don't know a single damn thing about logistics in terms of naval warfare. I was thaught that before. But instead. I will not explain that all those doctrinal definitions as then I'd look like to "pretend to be expert" right? something you russian dolls are very familiar of.




I asked a question, you conveniently changed the subject then accused me of being ignorant in a subject that i have not even discussed. 

So once again where does Russia lack with logistics? Auxiliary ships? Lets say Russia does not have enough auxiliary ships even though this year they will receive 80 ships many of which will be auxiliary, Russia also has these things called naval bases, which it has in the black sea, Vietnam, Syria, the Arctic and and even around the Sea of Japan. These bases hold fuel, food, water, and can relieve or treat sailors not to mention repair vessels. Because of these bases Russia does not need to rely heavily on auxiliary vessels. 





Neptune said:


> Yea. But tell me how many Russian subs in Black Sea are nuclear or AIP? Zero. How many of Russian Black Sea combatants have guided-missile roles? Not more than a half dozen.





I'm amused, Russia does not need to have nuclear submarines stationed in the black sea to actually be in the area. 








Neptune said:


> WTF? Bitch please...




Very mature, apart from violating forum rules in every post what do you actually bring to the table? Nothing at all. You seem confused but that is expected from a fraud. Anti submarine aircraft and aircraft armed with anti-ship missiles do not need any logistics ships but can destroy vessels just as easy as a submarine or surface vessel, which nullifies support vessels. 






Neptune said:


> Well tell me how many countries do operate the Type209.1400. Turkish submarines have the sub surface Harpoon missile launching capabilty. Only South Korea and few other Type209 operators have that. Again your statements are childish. Before everything. Ask a naval officer what exactly the logistics do mean in terms of naval warfare. Then come to discuss.




Please, your type 209s are ancient, they are diesel, they are slow, their dive depth is nothing special. As for harpoon how many does it carry? And what is the range? The klub has about double the range and some submarines can carry up to 40 of them. a single Yasen can hunt down and destroy every Turkish submarine, this is not bragging this is reality.

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## Brainsucker

If Turkey's fleet is as good as our Turkish Posters' claim here, why don't they strike Russian Black Sea Navy and "free" Crimea from those "Invader"? You have already have the "Casus Belli". What you need is to enforce your casus belli and strike those "Outdated" Russian Black Sea Navy and liberated the "poor" Tatar in Crimea. Don't just say like a superior here. Do it with action. You won't have such casus belli as right now in the future. It is an opportunity Plus, like you said, Turkey's Army is more superior than the Russian, so just prove it.

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## Superboy

Brainsucker said:


> If Turkey's fleet is as good as our Turkish Posters' claim here, why don't they strike Russian Black Sea Navy and "free" Crimea from those "Invader"? You have already have the "Casus Belli". What you need is to enforce your casus belli and strike those "Outdated" Russian Black Sea Navy and liberated the "poor" Tatar in Crimea. Don't just say like a superior here. Do it with action. You won't have such casus belli as right now in the future. It is an opportunity Plus, like you said, Turkey's Army is more superior than the Russian, so just prove it.




Turkey can't even free Palestinians from Israeli occupation, let alone stopping Russian expansion.

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## Brainsucker

Superboy said:


> Turkey can't even free Palestinians from Israeli occupation, let alone stopping Russian expansion.



What do you say? They "have" a superior Navy compared to Russian Black Sea Fleet. Their F-16 Fighter is far superior than Russian "Outdated" Fighters. They should capable to do it. But, well, of course if what they claim is true. After all, they have already have the "Casus BellI' to justified their action. What is more righteous and glorious than act as Global Police and free Crimea and free Tatar Civilians and return them to Ukraine from those "Invader". Just don't wait for the big brother US who still taking a break after their long term exercise in Afghanistan and Iraq. And forget those West European NATO who still traumatic with their WW2 experience.

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## xenon54 out

Brainsucker said:


> Turkey's Army is more superior than the Russian, so just prove it.


Yeah wait, i will call Erdogan because we have to prove something to an Indonesian here on forum.



Superboy said:


> Turkey can't even free Palestinians from Israeli occupation, let alone stopping Russian expansion.


We never claimed such an ambition, its not our problem, just like how many muslim Russia fanboys dont care about Tatars...

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## Sam1980

ptldM3 said:


> i'm not sure what Iran has anything to do with the topic



Me neither.


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## Neptune

ptldM3 said:


> *You* have been claiming many things such as being in the Turkish military, you then used those weak credentials, if they are even real, to make claims that are way above your pay grade.
> 
> The above quote is a lot of nothing but ranting. I brought up the logistics situation in Georgia as an example of how Russia is efficient at logistics, i'm not sure what Iran has anything to do with the topic. But the fact is Russia has one of the largest strategic transport fleets in the world and if Georgia was Russia's backyard then so is the black sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked a question, you conveniently changed the subject then accused me of being ignorant in a subject that i have not even discussed.
> 
> So once again where does Russia lack with logistics? Auxiliary ships? Lets say Russia does not have enough auxiliary ships even though this year they will receive 80 ships many of which will be auxiliary, Russia also has these things called naval bases, which it has in the black sea, Vietnam, Syria, the Arctic and and even around the Sea of Japan. These bases hold fuel, food, water, and can relieve or treat sailors not to mention repair vessels. Because of these bases Russia does not need to rely heavily on auxiliary vessels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm amused, Russia does not need to have nuclear submarines stationed in the black sea to actually be in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very mature, apart from violating forum rules in every post what do you actually bring to the table? Nothing at all. You seem confused but that is expected from a fraud. Anti submarine aircraft and aircraft armed with anti-ship missiles do not need any logistics ships but can destroy vessels just as easy as a submarine or surface vessel, which nullifies support vessels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please, your type 209s are ancient, they are diesel, they are slow, their dive depth is nothing special. As for harpoon how many does it carry? And what is the range? The klub has about double the range and some submarines can carry up to 40 of them. a single Yasen can hunt down and destroy every Turkish submarine, this is not bragging this is reality.



Dont expect me give answers to you. Naval logistics isnt all about auxy ships. If you were a rational thinking poster, I would be welcomed to discuss. But seeing you are not and being incapable at some important subjects such as logistics or aerial asw warfare..au revoir.


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## Huawei

Neptune said:


> Dont expect me give answers to you. Naval logistics isnt all about auxy ships. If you were a rational thinking poster, I would be welcomed to discuss. But seeing you are not and being incapable at some important subjects such as logistics or aerial asw warfare..au revoir.



You can't give answers because you don't have any answers noob

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## Neptune

Huawei said:


> You can't give answers because you don't have any answers noob



G8 job


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## Nishan_101

Turkish Navy should deploy its Fleet consisting of Frigates, Corvettes and Submarines on regualr basis to keep an eye on Israel, Syria and Russian out there...


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## BronzePlaque

Brainsucker said:


> What do you say? They "have" a superior Navy compared to Russian Black Sea Fleet. Their F-16 Fighter is far superior than Russian "Outdated" Fighters. They should capable to do it. But, well, of course if what they claim is true. After all, they have already have the "Casus BellI' to justified their action. What is more righteous and glorious than act as Global Police and free Crimea and free Tatar Civilians and return them to Ukraine from those "Invader". Just don't wait for the big brother US who still taking a break after their long term exercise in Afghanistan and Iraq. And forget those West European NATO who still traumatic with their WW2 experience.



Do you know the real meaning of "Casus Belli"?? Keep in mind, this is not Call of Duty 4


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## airmarshal

Forget it! Refer to the Russo Turkish wars from 1820s to 1870s and see how Russia defeated the Ottoman Empire several times. Even if the fleet is superior, Turkey does not build all of their equipment while Russia does.


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## ptldM3

Neptune said:


> Dont expect me give answers to you. Naval logistics isnt all about auxy ships. If you were a rational thinking poster, I would be welcomed to discuss. But seeing you are not and being incapable at some important subjects such as logistics or aerial asw warfare..au revoir.



You won't answer because you *can't*. Auxiliary ships comprise tankers, tug boast, salvage vessels (repair boats, cranes), resupply vessels, barges, rescue vessels, medical vessels, ect, ect, ect.

Now enlighten me on what logistics i am ignorant on because i see a pattern here, every debate i have with someone that doesn't know what they are talking about or pretend they know what they are talking about resort to the same tactics as you--refusal to debate the subject because they portray them selves as too good or the other person too ignorant when in reality you dug yourself into a hole.

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## Superboy

A fleet can be compared to another fleet. A navy can be compared to another navy. A country can be compared to another country. An alliance can be compared to another alliance. Black sea fleet is a fleet. Turkish navy is a navy. So they cannot be compared to each other. The distances between Sevastopol and Ankara, Istanbul are under 550 km. Therefore, Su-27 / 35 jets based at the Belbek air base in Sevastopol can pose a significant threat to Turkey. Note Abkhazia is missing from the map. Georgia lost over half of its coastline with the 2008 South Ossetia War.


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## atatwolf

airmarshal said:


> Forget it! Refer to the Russo Turkish wars from 1820s to 1870s and see how Russia defeated the Ottoman Empire several times. Even if the fleet is superior, Turkey does not build all of their equipment while Russia does.


When ottomans were loosing wars in Russo Turkish war it was already sick man of Europe. Not comparable to today. Turkey is full modernised army. With superior navy and second biggest air force of NATO. Russian navy is outdated and it's army undisciplined. Russians lost several wars like Afghan war. First Chechen war. They threw in the towels in the ring against couple of Chechens. You think they can easily win from Caucasus front? Turkey, Azerbaijan and Georgia? Plus the Chechens are not away. They will take the opportunity to push back Russia to the Volga river.


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## Superboy

atatwolf said:


> When ottomans were loosing wars in Russo Turkish war it was already sick man of Europe. Not comparable to today. Turkey is full modernised army. With superior navy and second biggest air force of NATO. Russian navy is outdated and it's army undisciplined. Russians lost several wars like Afghan war. First Chechen war. They threw in the towels in the ring against couple of Chechens. You think they can easily win from Caucasus front? Turkey, Azerbaijan and Georgia? Plus the Chechens are not away. They will take the opportunity to push back Russia to the Volga river.




The Republic of Chechnya has a pro Russian government. Azerbaijan is Shia and closely associated with Iran. Neither of them would ally with Turkey. Georgia lost South Ossetia and Abkhazia along with over half of its coastline with the 2008 South Ossetia War. Georgia would think twice before messing with Russia again.


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## LordTyrannus

Russia is maybe weak in using NGOs against our Enemies. But we have a strong Inteligence and our Military Might is not questionable. In a War Mother Russia turns into a giant furious Bear.

Nobody should stand in our way.

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## atatwolf

LordTyrannus said:


> Russia is maybe weak in using NGOs against our Enemies. But we have a strong Inteligence and our Military Might is not questionable. In a War Mother Russia turns into a giant furious Bear.
> 
> Nobody should stand in our way.








You lost first cold war, second cold war you will loose more.


Superboy said:


> The Republic of Chechnya has a pro Russian government.


So what? Ukraine also had pro russian government, puahaha, installing a puppet everybody can do.



> Azerbaijan is Shia and closely associated with Iran.


You just embarrassed YOURself AND revealed you don't know anything. Azerbaijan and Iran are enemies. How close Azerbaijan and Turkey is, so far is Iran and Azerbaijan from each other.



> Neither of them would ally with Turkey. Georgia lost South Ossetia and Abkhazia along with over half of its coastline with the 2008 South Ossetia War. Georgia would think twice before messing with Russia again.


Georgia wants it back. There are regular meetings. Case closed. The reality on the ground is that there is caucasus front. Everybody, besides armenia has the itnerest of keeping Russia out.

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## airmarshal

atatwolf said:


> When ottomans were loosing wars in Russo Turkish war it was already sick man of Europe. Not comparable to today. Turkey is full modernised army. With superior navy and second biggest air force of NATO. Russian navy is outdated and it's army undisciplined. Russians lost several wars like Afghan war. First Chechen war. They threw in the towels in the ring against couple of Chechens. You think they can easily win from Caucasus front? Turkey, Azerbaijan and Georgia? Plus the Chechens are not away. They will take the opportunity to push back Russia to the Volga river.



I m not disagreeing with you. But remember when Nazis attacked Russia in 1941, Russia was an outdated country with its army on horseback and ramshackle modes of transportation with little or not artillery or air force to talk about. 

Then it turned around and took half of Europe within 4 four years! 

Russia is completely self sufficient in military technology. Its not in an alliance with anyone. On its own, it can take on any country. It destroyed Chechen opposition, no matter how brutal it was, but the result was it wanted. Also it took away parts of Georgia and now a major strategic part of Ukraine. 

As for war in Afghanistan, dont forget that US is also in a same state there. It has no victory to show there despite such massive expenditure. So I agree with @LordTyrannus on this.

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## Superboy

atatwolf said:


> You lost first cold war, second cold war you will loose more.




Russia did not lose any territory with the breakup of the USSR. Not a single square inch. The Cold War never ended.



atatwolf said:


> You just embarrassed YOURself AND revealed you don't know anything. Azerbaijan and Iran are enemies. How close Azerbaijan and Turkey is, so far is Iran and Azerbaijan from each other.




Azerbaijan neighbors both Russia and Iran. Plus, Azerbaijan has the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict with Armenia. It would be suicidal for Azerbaijian to turn against Russia.

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## atatwolf

airmarshal said:


> I m not disagreeing with you. But remember when Nazis attacked Russia in 1941, Russia was an outdated country with its army on horseback and ramshackle modes of transportation with little or not artillery or air force to talk about.


It is not the same. Germany lost because of the cold weather. They prepared for blitzkrieg and not for the winter. If Germany prepared for the winter. Russians would be pooched. They were lucky Germany's army was being led by a moron.

Russians won thanks to Central Asians, especially on western front. Today Central Asians won't fight a war for Russia. They were forced to fight anyway. Today Russia doesn't have the population and especially in coming decade Russia will become older population. Russians doesn't have discipline. That is why they lost against Chechens, in Afghanistan, etc.

Turkey has NATO standard army. It won't make offensive move but will protect Azerbaijan at all cost. I don't see Russia making a move because if they do they know what awaits them. Russia doesn't make a chance against a NATO standard army. If Russia makes a move on a NATO country, a shyte load of things will get into motion that will not turn nice for them. A lot of people(s) inside and outside who see Russia as a threat will take advantage.


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## Superboy

atatwolf said:


> It is not the same. Germany lost because of the cold weather. They prepared for blitzkrieg and not for the winter. If Germany prepared for the winter. Russians would be pooched. They were lucky Germany's army was being led by a moron.
> 
> Russians won thanks to Central Asians, especially on western front. Today Central Asians won't fight a war for Russia. They were forced to fight anyway. Today Russia doesn't have the population and especially in coming decade Russia will become older population. Russians doesn't have discipline. That is why they lost against Chechens, in Afghanistan, etc.
> 
> Turkey has NATO standard army. It won't make offensive move but will protect Azerbaijan at all cost. I don't see Russia making a move because if they do they know what awaits them. Russia doesn't make a chance against a NATO standard army. If Russia makes a move on a NATO country, a shyte load of things will get into motion that will not turn nice for them. A lot of people(s) inside and outside who see Russia as a threat will take advantage.




The Third Reich had no chance of conquering the USSR. The USSR had technology on their side. In modern war, you don't win without technology.

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## damm1t

Yare yare... what a bunch of russkie ball lovers here... trying to prove that russia has bigger tool than Türkiye (not turkey as some idiots think we choosed the name via plebiscite or something, as if english is only language to speak and the word "Turkey" is only way to name the country) with their miserable inferiority complex... be man bring your countries in game instead sucking another one's ball... yes we are men enough to compare us with a regional power and claim in some points we are better... that should be something unfamiliar to some of you guys since your nation probably never was the dominant power in timeline like us and those russkies and you don't carry that empire heritage in your DNA.. I don't blame you... but we really did good so far since we don't have oil beds like russkies... I doubt they could survive without it...



Superboy said:


> Germany had no chance of conquering the USSR. The USSR had technology on their side. In modern war, you don't win without technology.



in ww2 germans had the best tech in its time... They could conquer ussr at breakfast and get china for lunch with several blitzkrieg... but that damn crazy hitler forced the war-machine above capacity.. and the plan "barbarossa" had some weaknesses... conquering whole west and east europe, balkans, bombing british empire, naval wars with them, south africa battles were just crazy... then of course it's too much winning agaisnt a united british, france, usa, ussr all together... germans today could be a superpower if that crazy hitler had some sane..... as you will agree attacking side always has disadvantage still germans lost 4 million but killed 7 million russkie..

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## olcayto

There's very good saying in Turkish, for all the non-Russians in this threat who are having Russian fanboy problems.

Başkasının yarrağı ile gerdeğe girmek!

Good for you guys

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## queerbait

atatwolf said:


> I'm just telling you that Moghuls who were Turkics and Muslim also contributed to India. That was my point. You wanted to say Islam didn't cotnribute anything so you are the troll. The only thing I dispise from my cousin ancestors the Moghuls is that they slept with creatures called Indian women and wrote a book about the different positions.



Why is this guy not banned ...taking pride in one culture is one thing but calling women creatures.....you yourself are an example on how hypocrite some muslims are today.


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## BronzePlaque

Superboy said:


> The Third Reich had no chance of conquering the USSR. The USSR had technology on their side. In modern war, you don't win without technology.



So are you saying that USSR was more advanced than Nazi Germany technology wise? You absouletly have no idea what you are talking about...

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## Superboy

damm1t said:


> in ww2 germans had the best tech in its time... They could conquer ussr at breakfast and get china for lunch with several blitzkrieg... but that damn crazy hitler forced the war-machine above capacity.. and the plan "barbarossa" had some weaknesses... conquering whole west and east europe, balkans, bombing british empire, naval wars with them, south africa battles were just crazy... then of course it's too much winning agaisnt a united british, france, usa, ussr all together... germans today could be a superpower if that crazy hitler had some sane..... as you will agree attacking side always has disadvantage still germans lost 4 million but killed 7 million russkie..




It wasn't meant to be. Just like Ukraine was never meant to have Crimea. Look what happened. Crimea back to Russia. 




BronzePlaque said:


> So are you saying that USSR was more advanced than Nazi Germany technology wise? You absouletly have no idea what you are talking about...




The USSR was the only one that had heavy tanks at the start of WW2. The Third Reich didn't have heavy tanks till 1942.


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## Tsilihin

Neptune : NRF consists by 60,000 NATO servicemen you idiot. You can't even conquer 1/20 of Russia with that.
Because obviously you're analytic military expert you can tell us how many soldiers are enough for conquer of Russian federation ?


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## damm1t

Tsilihin said:


> Neptune : NRF consists by 60,000 NATO servicemen you idiot. You can't even conquer 1/20 of Russia with that.
> Because obviously you're analytic military expert you can tell us how many soldiers are enough for conquer of Russian federation ?



dont forget the "@" symbol if you wanna mention him... @Neptune


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## Azeri440

Superboy said:


> The Cold War never ended.
> 
> .




I don't know what world you live in 
but yes it has



Superboy said:


> The Third Reich had no chance of conquering the USSR. The USSR had technology on their side. In modern war, you don't win without technology.




what technology ?

numbers is what won the war for Russians 
technology was on Germans side

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## Superboy

BronzePlaque said:


> So are you saying that USSR was more advanced than Nazi Germany technology wise? You absouletly have no idea what you are talking about...




USSR technology was superior to Third Reich technology. Panther tank copied T-34 design.


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## LordTyrannus

Without NATO you are ZERO

0

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## Azeri440

LordTyrannus said:


> Without NATO you are ZERO
> 
> 0




false


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## LordTyrannus

Dude NATO is the policeman who saves your butt from Russian bear. Without them Soviets would have made you satelite number 345#

You only survived because USA gave you M48/M60 Tanks and Starfighters. 

Dont be ungratefull to your western masters.

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## Azeri440

LordTyrannus said:


> Dude NATO is the policeman who saves your butt from Russian bear. Without them Soviets would have made you satelite number 345#
> 
> You only survived because USA gave you M48/M60 Tanks and Starfighters.
> 
> Dont be ungratefull to your western masters.




lol you do realize where Russia and Turkey is located right ?
Soviet Union never had enough forces in Caucasus to launch an invasion at a country the size of Turkey


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## 500

Superboy said:


> The USSR was the only one that had heavy tanks at the start of WW2. The Third Reich didn't have heavy tanks till 1942.


What weight of tank has to do with technology? German Pz III and Pz IV were more advanced technology wise despite having a light weight.



Azeri440 said:


> what technology ?
> 
> numbers is what won the war for Russians
> technology was on Germans side


USSR had good technologies too. T-34-85, IS-2, La-7, Yak-3 - great examples of technology.


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## damm1t

LordTyrannus said:


> Dude NATO is the policeman who saves your butt from Russian bear. Without them Soviets would have made you satelite number 345#
> 
> You only survived because USA gave you M48/M60 Tanks and Starfighters.
> 
> Dont be ungratefull to your western masters.



hahah what russian bear you talking about..? you barely saved your own butt from afghans... don't mention chechens even.. and now try to imagine you fight with us... yes its scary... now leave the room and close the door behind you

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## Superboy

damm1t said:


> hahah what russian bear you talking about..? you barely saved your own butt from afghans... don't mention chechens even.. and now try to imagine you fight with us... yes its scary... now leave the room and close the door behind you




We shall see what happens in 100 years. These days, without technology, you cannot win war. Afghanistan cannot manufacture its own high tech military hardware. Russia can. In 100 years when Russian soldiers wear bullet proof body armor, Afghan soldiers would not have such protection. How would you fight an enemy you cannot hurt with your weapon?


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## Azeri440

500 said:


> USSR had good technologies too. T-34-85, IS-2, La-7, Yak-3 - great examples of technology.



yes but Germans still had better tech than the allies 
check stories of how German Tiger 2 destroyed dozens of T-34s 
just a single Tiger 2 
many similar stories


Germans had better tech and better trained soldiers 
US and their allies still struggled against Germans when most of their army was busy dealing with Russia



Superboy said:


> We shall see what happens in 100 years. These days, without technology, you cannot win war. Afghanistan cannot manufacture its own high tech military hardware. Russia can. In 100 years when Russian soldiers wear bullet proof body armor, Afghan soldiers would not have such protection. How would you fight an enemy you cannot hurt with your weapon?



I guess aiming at the head would be once choice

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## damm1t

Superboy said:


> We shall see what happens in 100 years. These days, without technology, you cannot win war. Afghanistan cannot manufacture its own high tech military hardware. Russia can. In 100 years when Russian soldiers wear bullet proof body armor, Afghan soldiers would not have such protection. How would you fight an enemy you cannot hurt with your weapon?



in 70s russians had better army tech than afghans, and in 90s they were better than chechens, you dont need google here I assume you can figure out that much right since you comment around like a google digger smartass.. they (afg/che) were lacking attack helos, missiles, warplanes and ALL other hardwares russians have STILL they hurted and scared your mighty uranium smeller cocky bear... tech is a key but not all ...one more thing clarky kent, we are no like afghans, we produce pretty much we need and developing, keep that in your mind

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## Superboy

damm1t said:


> in 70s russians had better army tech than afghans, and in 90s they were better than chechens, you dont need google here I assume you can figure out that much right since you comment around like a google digger smartass.. they (afg/che) were lacking attack helos, missiles, warplanes and ALL other hardwares russians have STILL they hurted and scared your mighty uranium smeller cocky bear... tech is a key but not all ...one more thing clarky kent, we are no like afghans, we produce pretty much we need and still developing, keep that in your mind




Not really. During the Afghan War the insurgents used AK rifles, pretty much the same as USSR soldiers did, albeit older models and had limited ammo. These days Russian soldiers have kevlar armor and are pretty much invulnerable to rifle fire, whereas insurgents do not have kevlar armor and are no match for Russian soldiers.


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## damm1t

Superboy said:


> Not really. During the Afghan War the insurgents used AK rifles, pretty much the same as USSR soldiers did, albeit older models and had limited ammo. These days Russian soldiers have kevlar armor and are pretty much invulnerable to rifle fire, while insurgents do not have kevlar armor and are no match for Russian soldiers.



And yes all russians used were ak47s... no tank no helo no equipment no hg no missile rocket etc....nothing else than damn fcking ak47s

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## Superboy

damm1t said:


> And yes all russians used were ak47s... no tank no helo no equipment no hg no missile rocket etc....nothing else than damn fcking ak47s




USSR soldiers used AK-74 back then. These days Russian soldiers use AK-12. Even though insurgent won in the end, insurgent casualty was over 4 times that of USSR casualty. If Afghan War happens now between Russia and mujahedeens, mujahedeen casualty would be over 100 times that of Russian casualty.

Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## -SINAN-

I can't understand where this Turkey vs Russia thing comes from.

We had $50 Billion bilateral trade with Russia in 2012. Turkish companies invested over $20 Billion in Russia. Over 10 million Russian tourists visits Turkey annually. Russia supplies %40 of the natural gas consumption in Turkey. They are also building our first Nuclear plant and around 800 Turkish students are being educated in nuclear science in Russian Universities....

I think all of the poster here should be realistic and rational. There is no way Russian-Turkish relations is going to sour.

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## damm1t

Superboy said:


> USSR soldiers used AK-74 back then. These days Russian soldiers use AK-12. Even though insurgent won in the end, insurgent casualty was over 4 times that of USSR casualty. If Afghan War happens now between Russia and mujahedeens, mujahedeen casualty would be over 100 times that of Russian casualty



The men nearly fought with sticks and forced your equipped head to toe bear to withdraw... that was the vietnam of soviets... thats what I call real balls

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## Superboy

damm1t said:


> The men nearly fought with sticks and forced your equipped head to toe bear to withdraw... that was the vietnam of soviets... thats what I call real balls




USSR withdraw was not due to mujahedden. It was due to economic problems. Likewise, US withdraw from Afghanistan is not due to mujahedeen. It is due to economic problems. 1 Russian was KIA in the 2014 Crimean War, compared to 220,000 Russian KIA in the 1850s Crimean War. If Russia fights mujahedeen now, Russian casualty be about 1% of USSR casualty in the 1980s.


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## Brainsucker

BronzePlaque said:


> Do you know the real meaning of "Casus Belli"?? Keep in mind, this is not Call of Duty 4



What is Call of Duty 4? Is it a movie or something? Sorry, I never watch it. I haven't goes to cinema for sometimes now. And you know? Well, maybe you know. Just thinking. Your Navy is superior to the Russian Black Sea Fleet; check; according to your fellow posters. Your 250 F-16 is soooo superior that even Mig 29 and Su-27 is like a joke; check. So..., overall, you are stronger than Russia, and you should be numbered as number two as the strongest country in this world today; not them. So you should be able to replace the big brother US who is now have an ankle Sprain after conduct a long term exercise in Afghanistan and Iraq.

So go Turkey, don't be a coward. Show your true power. Crush Russia, free Crimea, free Tatar, and free the people of Syria from that Bashir Al Assad. Well, unless you are not that soo powerful just like what you people said in this thread.

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## Desert Fox

damm1t said:


> The men nearly fought with sticks and forced your equipped head to toe bear to withdraw... that was the vietnam of soviets... thats what I call real balls


The Soviets withdrew not due to defeat at the hands of the Afghan resistance, though they did face considerable resistance and losses at the hands of the Mujahideen in certain key battles but the Socialist Afghan regime the Soviets left behind was considerably powerful compared to the current Karzai regime propped by the Americans and even after the Soviets Withdrew the Communist Afghan regime continued to hold its own against the rebels but when the Soviet Union collapsed (due to economic problems from arms race with the West) the new Russian state cut all support to the Communist Afghan regime which led it to collapse.


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## Azeri440

Superboy said:


> USSR soldiers used AK-74 back then. These days Russian soldiers use AK-12. Even though insurgent won in the end, insurgent casualty was over 4 times that of USSR casualty. If Afghan War happens now between Russia and mujahedeens, mujahedeen casualty would be over 100 times that of Russian casualty.
> 
> Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


no they don't , they use AK-74M

special forces use AKs with after market parts


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## atatwolf

Russia so stronkkkk !!!!11

Hahaha

If it was Soviet times. I would say maybe but still no... Today hell no.

Only reason why Russia won was because it didn't care about his population and threw million into the German meat grinder. Germans didn't expect they would be so noncaring about their population. If Hitler prepared backup plan Russia wouldn't exist. Also central Asians played a huge part in Russian defence.

Today central Asians are on our side. Russia can't force to fight their wars anymore. Russia just wants to hold on their southern position and they have to dance along like a circus bear if they want to keep it

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## BronzePlaque

Brainsucker said:


> What is Call of Duty 4? Is it a movie or something?


Its a game..



Brainsucker said:


> Your Navy is superior to the Russian Black Sea Fleet; check; according to your fellow posters.



Not according to posters..According to facts..Instead of trying to be a smartass why dont you make a research? Its very simple, just google Russian Black Sea Fleet, and then Turkish Navy...See? Not so difficult, even for you.. (May be you are incapable, so i tell in advance, no one here is claiming Turkish Navy is stronger than Russian Navy, but only Russian Black Sea Fleet)



Brainsucker said:


> Your 250 F-16 is soooo superior that even Mig 29 and Su-27 is like a joke; check.



Noone said such thing..You are lying



Brainsucker said:


> So..., overall, you are stronger than Russia, and you should be numbered as number two as the strongest country in this world today; not them. So you should be able to replace the big brother US who is now have an ankle Sprain after conduct a long term exercise in Afghanistan and Iraq.



Again, you are talking nonsense here

The rest of your post is not worth a reply.. And you still didnt respond my question, what is "Casus Belli" according to you? You claimed Turkey has "Casus Belli" on Russia..Explain

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## Brainsucker

@BronzePlaque :

This is the post of your fellow Turkish in this forum. You can search it yourself in another thread around here. It's still hot out there, so you can find it very easily.



LegionnairE said:


> You have the thickest skull I've ever encountered so far "downgraded" F16s? all of our F16 fleet has reached to Block50+ level after CCIP modernisation. I can't believe I'm losing time with these retards.
> 
> 
> We have all sorts of anti-radiation missiles to take care of S400s Harms, Harpies, whatever, and we have every bit of equipment that is necessary to keep the air-superiority from russians. B737 AWACS' KC135 Stratotankers, everything. What russians have are some extra maneuverable aircraft, that doesn't mean shit against JHMCS mounted F16s.







LegionnairE said:


> Some pilots have resigned in protest after a few political events such as the Ergenekon case I'm sure there are others with different reasons. But we still put in thousands of flight hours, We're actually above NATO average and certainly in a better shape than Russia. You should watch SoloTürk and Turkish stars videos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian pilots are mostly old guys, especially good ones. Like their planes, they are from soviet-era.
> 
> Lastly, what @usernameless said applies, in case of mobilization, those men working with international airline companies will return to their duty.





LegionnairE said:


> Some pilots have resigned in protest after a few political events such as the Ergenekon case I'm sure there are others with different reasons. But we still put in thousands of flight hours, We're actually above NATO average and certainly in a better shape than Russia. You should watch SoloTürk and Turkish stars videos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian pilots are mostly old guys, especially good ones. Like their planes, they are from soviet-era.
> 
> Lastly, what @usernameless said applies, in case of mobilization, those men working with international airline companies will return to their duty.







LegionnairE said:


> @Span, what kind of modernisation did the Mig29 go through exactly?
> 
> 
> We have 240 F16s either went through CCIP modernisation and became block50+ or directly procured block 50+ We have their source codes and we pretty much produce every part of the plane at TAI... I don't think we have brought anything from america in the last batch of 30 F16s...
> 
> 
> I think we can keep producing F16s in a prolonged conflict but it won't be necessary as F35s will enter inventory in a couple of years. I'd like to see Ibris-Es trying to get a lock on our planes then. But even with the current inventory I'm sure that in a small skirmish they'll lose a hell of a lot more planes than we will.
> 
> 
> I know F4E 2020 Terminators' airframes are really old but I'm still confident they can and will outpreform planes like Su25 in ground attack and SEAD/DEAD roles.







LegionnairE said:


> Yeah, but how many Su35s they have? very few, bulk of their fleet consists of mostly outdated planes like Mi29s, Mig31s while even our F4 2020 Terminators went through serious modernisation. I don't know how are we going to part with these babies once F35s are introduced



So... you have 240 (maybe not 250) a super duper F-16 block +50 that can trample Russian SU-27 and Mig-29. Well, according to your people's posts at least. Maybe he didn't said SU-27 but Mig-31, but otherwise, it is the same. Turkey's F-16 is soooo superior.



Neptune said:


> Being a former servicemen, I can assure you that Northern Sea Area Command can neutralize Russian Black Sea Fleet within 72 hours. That was the subject.



And this is according to your "expert", you can trample Russian Black Sea Fleet within 72 hours. Wow, Amazing capability!

and now you said that it is according to the facts. Well, then so what are you waiting for? And what do you think that your casus belli to strike them? I have explained in previous my post. It is enough. So what are you waiting for?


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## Tsilihin

Sinan said:
I can't understand where this Turkey vs Russia thing comes from.
We had $50 Billion bilateral trade with Russia in 2012. Turkish companies invested over $20 Billion in Russia. Over 10 million Russian tourists visits Turkey annually.
_______________________________________________________________________________

I think in the next few years, trade between Turkey and Russia will constantly be on the rise.
It annoys some people who lost their market because things are changing rapidly and the strategy which was good before 10 years starting to fall apart.


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## LegionnairE

@Tsilihin They are constantly poking the status between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Helping Armenia just enough that they can maintain a stalemate. This is damaging stability and making it impossible for the Karabağ issue to be solved.

We need a stable causcaus so we can connect with the Turkic states. If you think we have good trade with Russia, wait until we establish a trade corridor with middle asia.


Brainsucker said:


> @BronzePlaque
> So... you have 240 (maybe not 250) a super duper F-16 block +50 that can trample Russian SU-27 and Mig-29. Well, according to your people's posts at least. Maybe he didn't said SU-27 but Mig-31, but otherwise, it is the same. Turkey's F-16 is soooo superior.


Don't twist my words, I've already said in my posts Su27s will be a problem. They are actually good planes. But my opinon of Mig29s and Mig31s haven't changed, I'm behind my words.


Brainsucker said:


> And this is according to your "expert", you can trample Russian Black Sea Fleet within 72 hours. Wow, Amazing capability!


it is, I am proud of our submarine fleet. Even with most of Ukraine's navy absorbed Russian black sea fleet is still a junkyard of 1970s, 1980s ships.


Brainsucker said:


> and now you said that it is according to the facts. Well, then so what are you waiting for? And what do you think that your casus belli to strike them? I have explained in previous my post. It is enough. So what are you waiting for?


Never go full retard.


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## LordTyrannus

damm1t said:


> hahah what russian bear you talking about..? you barely saved your own butt from afghans... don't mention chechens even.. and now try to imagine you fight with us... yes its scary... now leave the room and close the door behind you



LOL Afghans vaporized their own country. Be my guest and follow their example.

Turkey 2020

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## damm1t

LordTyrannus said:


> LOL Afghans vaporized their own country. Be my guest and follow their example.
> 
> Turkey 2020




I don't think that will happen to us but no need to be genious to see what will happen when your resources finished. despite all of oil you sell still economy is not in a good shape. you won't see the dark future maybe but next gens of russians will face the nightmare.

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## atatwolf

damm1t said:


> I don't think that will happen to us but no need to be genious to see what will happen when your resources finished. despite all of oil you sell still economy is not in a good shape. you won't see the dark future maybe but next gens of russians will face the nightmare.


I don't know who said it but they called Russia third world gas station. Quite true I must say. Without Turkic oil fields they would be just another Belarus. Even with all that natural resources. Russia's economy is dire. Their population is shrinking between 20/30 million in the next decades. They won't have millions to throw into the meat grinder to save their arses like in Stalingrad. Only turkeys population will be bbigger than Russia's white population abd I'm not even counting Azerbaijan and all the Turkic states.

The new sanctions will hurt Russia hard. Last time they did this Soviets fell apart. It might be very possible that Russian federation will fall apart soon too. Putin knows that Russia has to make a move now they have time. Imho Russia even has plans to annex Armenia. Some say Russia and Turkey won't clash but imho it is just matter of time. If Turkey builds those oil and gas pipelines it will take all the cards out of Russia's hands against nato. They will do everything to undermine it.

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## LordTyrannus

Your country is an Amateur in the international Bussiness. 

You notice that there is no phone leakings of Putin and his fellows on the internet? NSA cant spy into Russia. GRU is protecting Russia like S.H.I.E.L.D from the avenger movies. 

And what about Turkey? Every day another leaked phone call scandal. You are a big joke.

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## Khan_patriot

If we compare the Turk navy to just the Ruski Black Sea fleet then maybe, but if we talk about the entire Ruski navy then I believe the Ruskis win without contest....


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## he-man

There is simply 0 competition between russia and turkey

Pointless discussion.

Plus russians have started expanding navy again and in 2020 it will be a monstrous force again

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## UKBengali

he-man said:


> There is simply 0 competition between russia and turkey
> 
> Pointless discussion.
> 
> Plus russians have started expanding navy again and in 2020 it will be a monstrous force again



Russia has plans to massively modernise it's Navy.

_Project 21956_ destroyer - In total 16 of these will be built and will have formidable air-defences on par with AEGIS destroyers.

Admiral Gorshov class frigate - 15-20 of these will be built.

The idea of Turkey matching the Russian Navy is laughable, even when you take out the Russian SSNs which are the on par with the US designs.

In the far, far future like 2050 then Turkey may have a chance with competing with Russia.

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## he-man

UKBengali said:


> Russia has plans to massively modernise it's Navy.
> 
> _Project 21956_ destroyer - In total 16 of these will be built and will have formidable air-defences on par with AEGIS destroyers.
> 
> Admiral Gorshov class frigate - 15-20 of these will be built.
> 
> The idea of Turkey matching the Russian Navy is laughable, even when you take out the Russian SSNs which are the on par with the US designs.
> 
> In the far, far future like 2050 then Turkey may have a chance with competing with Russia.



True and they plan on building new subs too under plan 2020 .

The biggest thing is russians can make all on their own.

Even germany and japan cannot do that

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## LordTyrannus

Defence INDUSTRY made Soviets big. And it will also pump up Russian Federation.


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## Superboy

Russian cruisers are the biggest in the world.  Even the new American Zumwalt destroyers under construction are smaller.

Kirov-class battlecruiser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## he-man

Superboy said:


> Russian cruisers are the biggest in the world.  Even the new American Zumwalt destroyers under construction are smaller.
> 
> Kirov-class battlecruiser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



There is a diff between missile cruiser and destroyer.

Aircraft carrier>cruiser>destroyer

But these are very very old steam powered super non stealthy ships


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## atatwolf

he-man said:


> There is a diff between missile cruiser and destroyer.
> 
> Aircraft carrier>cruiser>destroyer
> 
> But these are very very old steam powered super non stealthy ships


They would never see this stealth ship coming.





No need to dicuss with these fan boys. They don't look objectively.


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## he-man

atatwolf said:


> They would never see this stealth ship coming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to dicuss with these fan boys. They don't look objectively.



Thats the truth
Plus they have old radars,even upgradation will have at the most pesas,only new ones will have aesas and none hasen't been even laid down(destroyer)

Although I agree if it sees u then u are finished,these cruisers are dianosaurs


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## LordTyrannus

Superboy said:


> Russian cruisers are the biggest in the world.  Even the new American Zumwalt destroyers under construction are smaller.
> 
> Kirov-class battlecruiser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



That post shows you have small military Knowledge. Zumwalt destroyers are the top notch ship technology. Russia has no ambition to compare its old Soviet Models to modern Stealth Ships. Thats the Reason why Russia is building also Ships with Stealth qualities. 

Like this Baby.











Russia will also build 6 of these Baby

_Admiral Gorshkov_ class frigate






Until 2020 Russian defence Budget will rise to 100 billion dollars. Turkey will remain under 10 billions. They are no match for Russia.


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## atatwolf

LordTyrannus said:


>


You can also get this in a toy shop. You are planning to built this. Turkey already has it. Comparing Russia's army in 2020 is like comparing Turkish army in 2050 to Russia's army in 2020.



> Russia will also build 6 of these Baby
> 
> _Admiral Gorshkov_ class frigate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until 2020 Russian defence Budget will rise to 100 billion dollars. Turkey will remain under 10 billions. They are no match for Russia.


Russia has bigger geography to defend. And against you are comparing what Russia will have in the far future with what Turkey has today. The truth is that if there is a battle on black sea. Your ships won't know what hit them and from where they hit them by the stealth ships because of your outdated raders and ships. Those ships would be nice homes for the fishes in the black sea.


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## he-man

atatwolf said:


> You can also get this in a toy shop. You are planning to built this. Turkey already has it. Comparing Russia's army in 2020 is like comparing Turkish army in 2050 to Russia's army in 2020.
> 
> 
> Russia has bigger geography to defend. And against you are comparing what Russia will have in the far future with what Turkey has today. The truth is that if there is a battle on black sea. Your ships won't know what hit them and from where they hit them by the stealth ships because of your outdated raders and ships. Those ships would be nice homes for the fishes in the black sea.



Man have some shame on ur uber stupid bullshit post

Russia has enough missiles to destroy both usa and china at the same time.

Plus turkey like majority of developing world can't make shit on its own,russians can.

They still have 30 nuclear subs,just back off dude.

They don't even need navy to turn any country to ash

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## UKBengali

he-man said:


> Man have some shame on ur uber stupid bullshit post
> 
> Russia has enough missiles to destroy both usa and china at the same time.
> 
> Plus turkey like majority of developing world can't make shit on its own,russians can.
> 
> They still have 30 nuclear subs,just back off dude.
> 
> They don't even need navy to turn any country to ash



Ignore Turks as they still think that they are in the 16th century when they were more powerful than Russia.

Today they need NATO to protect themselves against Russia - that says it all about how confident they are aganist Russia.

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## atatwolf

he-man said:


> Man have some shame on ur uber stupid bullshit post
> 
> Russia has enough missiles to destroy both usa and china at the same time.
> 
> Plus turkey like majority of developing world can't make shit on its own,russians can.
> 
> They still have 30 nuclear subs,just back off dude.
> 
> They don't even need navy to turn any country to ash


Dude, don't be such a fan boy, you have your head up their arse it is not even funny. This topic was about *comparing navies*. Not about whole army. Plus Russia has more weapons because they are bigger country. *This topic pure about black sea fleets and you are too big of a b to admit the truth.*

In case of wide spread escalation of Russians, NATO would bomb the shit out of Russia turning the third world gas station into third world bombed nation. And if Russia didn't get enough NATO has enough nukes to turn Russia into a thermal nuclear plasma waste land.

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## LordTyrannus

atatwolf said:


> In case of wide spread escalation of Russians, NATO would bomb the shit out of Russia turning the third world gas station into third world bombed nation. And if Russia didn't get enough NATO has enough nukes to turn Russia into a thermal nuclear plasma waste land.




Yes, without Nato you are Zero. nice that you admit it.


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## atatwolf

LordTyrannus said:


> Yes, without Nato you are Zero. nice that you admit it.


Without gas you are zero. Admit it.

But I think it is clear to everybody that Russians and your fanboys cannot compare Turkish Black sea fleet to Russian black sea fleet objectively.

You know the truth.

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## UKBengali

atatwolf said:


> Dude, don't be such a fan boy, you have your head up their arse it is not even funny. This topic was about *comparing navies*. Not about whole army. Plus Russia has more weapons because they are bigger country. *This topic pure about black sea fleets and you are too big of a b to admit the truth.*
> 
> In case of wide spread escalation of Russians, NATO would bomb the shit out of Russia turning the third world gas station into third world bombed nation. And if Russia didn't get enough NATO has enough nukes to turn Russia into a thermal nuclear plasma waste land.



Some of you Turks are really funny that you think NATO would die for you.

In a war with Russia you are alone. These Euros don't even let you into the EU and you seriously think they would die for you!

Russia can make the whole of NATO die many times over.

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## xenon54 out

UKBengali said:


> Russia can make the whole of NATO die many times over.


Some of you Russia fanboys are even funnier, Russia is no match against Nato, Russia and its ressource based economy is dependent on western customers.

Nato finished Yugoslavia, took over whole Balkan and eastern Europe, installed missile defense and all Russia could do is watch.
And now you fanboys are happy because Russia could annex a small piece of land from a defenseless country during turbulent times, and cheer their attack on small countrys, wow, im sry for you if thats all Russia can offer.

Ohh wait i forgot the 8000 nukes Russia has, because its not like that Nato has the defence shield exactly for this purpose and 500 Nukes additional to the 7000 of USA right?

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## T-123456

@atatwolf @xenon54 let them drink a glass of cold water,so we can have a tea at the tea house

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## LordTyrannus

atatwolf said:


> Without gas you are zero. Admit it.
> 
> But I think it is clear to everybody that Russians and your fanboys cannot compare Turkish Black sea fleet to Russian black sea fleet objectively.
> 
> You know the truth.



Yeah, but our Resources belong to us. Nato does not belong to you and they definatly dont serve your interests. You are just a lackey.

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## atatwolf

LordTyrannus said:


> Yeah, but our Resources belong to us. Nato does not belong to you and they definatly dont serve your interests. You are just a lackey.


Turkish black sea fleet doesn't belong to NATO. It is owned and produced by Turkey. You keep pulling irrelevant things to not face the truth and make comparison.



UKBengali said:


> Some of you Turks are really funny that you think NATO would die for you.
> 
> In a war with Russia you are alone. These Euros don't even let you into the EU and you seriously think they would die for you!
> 
> Russia can make the whole of NATO die many times over.


Uk(gang)bang ali, if that is true Soviets would have attacked Turkey which was much more stronger than third world gas station of today. If Russia doesn't want to be carved up by NATO, it won't attack NATO country.


xenon54 said:


> Some of you Russia fanboys are even funnier, Russia is no match against Nato, Russia and its ressource based economy is dependent on western customers.
> 
> Nato finished Yugoslavia, took over whole Balkan and eastern Europe, installed missile defense and all Russia could do is watch.
> And now you fanboys are happy because Russia could annex a small piece of land from a defenseless country during turbulent times, and cheer their attack on small countrys, wow, im sry for you if thats all Russia can offer.
> 
> Ohh wait i forgot the 8000 nukes Russia has, because its not like that Nato has the defence shield exactly for this purpose and 500 Nukes additional to the 7000 of USA right?


I think war with Russia won't immediately end up in nuclear warfare. First there would be conventional warfare with inevitable result of all Russian republics gaining independence. Russia will have to stomach this defeat if it doesn't want to be totally annihalted since in Nuclear war Russia won't make a chance because of the missile shields. History shows that when soviets disintegrated, Ruskies cried and moaned but at the end accepted defeat and crawled by to their hole.



T-123456 said:


> @atatwolf @xenon54 let them drink a glass of cold water,so we can have a tea at the tea house


It is too fun to give slap down these fanboys


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## Nexus

T-123456 said:


> 6 U214TN Subs
> 6 Milgem Corvettes
> 4 TF 100 Frigates
> 8 TF 2000 AAW Frigates
> Still to come.


That's huge man !


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## LordTyrannus

Nexus said:


> That's huge man !



Nope. Soon turkish economy bubble will colapse and those ambitioned military projects will be cancelled. PM of Turkey already cancelled Milgem Acquisition.


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## Nexus

LordTyrannus said:


> Nope. Soon turkish economy bubble will colapse and those ambitioned military projects will be cancelled. PM of Turkey already cancelled Milgem Acquisition.


well i don't know about turkish economy but it strange for me that even turkey needs to cancel it's defence projects.


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## LordTyrannus

Nexus said:


> well i don't know about turkish economy but it strange for me that even turkey needs to cancel it's defence projects.



They have no Money left. Their PM is telling them too much BS. They believe everything. 1000 Tanks, 100+ Attack helos, 100+ F35. many many Warships and submarines and whatnot. In reality they cant even pay their imports anymore. Turkish central bank increased interest rate for borowing dollar/euro from 7 to 12,5%.


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## atatwolf

LordTyrannus said:


> They have no Money left. Their PM is telling them too much BS. They believe everything. 1000 Tanks, 100+ Attack helos, 100+ F35. many many Warships and submarines and whatnot. In reality they cant even pay their imports anymore. Turkish central bank increased interest rate for borowing dollar/euro from 7 to 12,5%.


Spreading false info like an Armenian. The milgem ships are not canceled because of financial reasons. Please find me a source that says that. The truth is that Erdogan wanted a new bid. He wants to replace it with better ships since we have new tech since our last milgem was produced.. We can afford it while Russia still producing stone age warships that have no chance against our stealth ships. Before you could see them, you would already have hit the bottom of the black sea.

Turkey strengthens its navy, 5 February 2014

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## usernameless

Nexus said:


> well i don't know about turkish economy but it strange for me that even turkey needs to cancel it's defence projects.


it would great if you don't take that russian's words seriously. milgem ahas nothing to do with Turkey's economy.


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## LordTyrannus

usernameless said:


> it would great if you don't take that russian's words seriously. milgem ahas nothing to do with Turkey's economy.



Okay, i will try to educate you my little Boy. Please listen carefully.

Ships (The Milgem is a ship) costing MONEY (With money you buy things).

If you are out of money, than you cant buy ships. If you are out of money, you are broke. Broke means you are bankrupt.

Bankrupt is the state when you have no money. I hope you understand this.


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## xenon54 out

LordTyrannus said:


> Okay, i will try to educate you my little Boy. Please listen carefully.
> 
> Ships (The Milgem is a ship) costing MONEY (With money you buy things).
> 
> If you are out of money, than you cant buy ships. If you are out of money, you are broke. Broke means you are bankrupt.
> 
> Bankrupt is the state when you have no money. I hope you understand this.


Oh great seems like you learned something new today in kidergaden, but tell your teacher tomorrow that deals also can be cancelled because of new bids or better offers for exsample.

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## Tsilihin

Don't forget about maintenance.
How many money you lose on services,spareparts,regular maintenance of the equipment.
For that reason some projects are doomed to fail.
Some military experts targeting the F-35 as a highly unacceptable program, for these reasons.


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## Superboy

wiki says 6 Milgems are under construction. MILGEM project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To be honest, Turkey cannot rely on NATO. NATO is not a country, just as the EU is not a country, the UN is not a country. If a NATO country is attacked, it is the same as an attack on all other NATO countries. But, if Russia attacks Turkey, all the other NATO countries can say, Russia attacked me and I'm not going to do anything about it. Nowhere does it say any other NATO country must be militarily involved if a NATO country is attacked. And who's to say Russia would not be in a military alliance akin to NATO?

Sevastopol is within 550 km of Istanbul and Ankara. Su-27 / 35 jets based in Sevastopol can pose a big aerial threat to Turkey.

How do Milgem corvettes compare to Steregushchy corvettes? Steregushchy-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## xenon54 out

Superboy said:


> But, if Russia attacks Turkey, all the other NATO countries can say, Russia attacked me and I'm not going to do anything about it. Nowhere does it say any other NATO country must be militarily involved if a NATO country is attacked.


_________________________________________________________________________



> *Article 5 of the Washington Treaty:*
> _*The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all* and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, *including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. *_
> 
> _Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security. _





> *What does Article 5 mean? *
> Article 5 is at the basis of a fundamental principle of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. It provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked.
> 
> This is the principle of collective defence.




http://www.nato.int/terrorism/five.htm


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## LordTyrannus

Superboy said:


> wiki says 6 Milgems are under construction. MILGEM project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> To be honest, Turkey cannot rely on NATO. NATO is not a country, just as the EU is not a country, the UN is not a country. If a NATO country is attacked, it is the same as an attack on all other NATO countries. But, if Russia attacks Turkey, all the other NATO countries can say, Russia attacked me and I'm not going to do anything about it. Nowhere does it say any other NATO country must be militarily involved if a NATO country is attacked. And who's to say Russia would not be in a military alliance akin to NATO?
> 
> Sevastopol is within 550 km of Istanbul and Ankara. Su-27 / 35 jets based in Sevastopol can pose a big aerial threat to Turkey.
> 
> How do Milgem corvettes compare to Steregushchy corvettes? Steregushchy-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Wikipedia is not up to date. Milgem Project is cancelled. Turkish Budget can´t afford Milgems anymore. 

Russian defence Budget is still rising. Today its 90 billions and until 2020 it will be 100 billions. I doubt Turkey will continue to exist until that date as a unified state.

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## xenon54 out

LordTyrannus said:


> Wikipedia is not up to date. Milgem Project is cancelled. Turkish Budget can´t afford Milgems anymore.


No it isnt cancelled.

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## flamer84

LordTyrannus said:


> Wikipedia is not up to date. Milgem Project is cancelled. Turkish Budget can´t afford Milgems anymore.
> 
> Russian defence Budget is still rising. Today its 90 billions and until 2020 it will be 100 billions. I doubt Turkey will continue to exist until that date as a unified state.



Doubt it.Russian economy is downhill,most likely contract this year.No more pessos for you.

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## usernameless

Superboy said:


> wiki says 6 Milgems are under construction. MILGEM project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> To be honest, Turkey cannot rely on NATO. NATO is not a country, just as the EU is not a country, the UN is not a country. If a NATO country is attacked, it is the same as an attack on all other NATO countries. But, if Russia attacks Turkey, all the other NATO countries can say, Russia attacked me and I'm not going to do anything about it. Nowhere does it say any other NATO country must be militarily involved if a NATO country is attacked. And who's to say Russia would not be in a military alliance akin to NATO?
> 
> Sevastopol is within 550 km of Istanbul and Ankara. Su-27 / 35 jets based in Sevastopol can pose a big aerial threat to Turkey.
> 
> How do Milgem corvettes compare to Steregushchy corvettes? Steregushchy-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It's quite simple. If Nato doesnt help Turkey, Nato will lose a strategic country that is among the most progressive country within nato. Sure nato can drop Turkey, but are they willing to lose one of the most important nato country? Turkey switching to the anti-Nato camp will be very disadvantageous for Europe. Especially once Turkey also has pipeline connection from central Asia. Anyway, i don't believe in a war with Russia in the short term. Neither do i believe that nukes will ever be used to solve any problems between Turkey and Russia.

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## LordTyrannus

flamer84 said:


> Doubt it.Russian economy is downhill,most likely contract this year.No more pessos for you.









You should try to use glasses. Russia only has 10% of its GDP as debt. We can easily take 500 Billions of credits any time in war situation. Reserves are also 500 billion. That makes 1 trillion dollars for Wartimes and weapon purchase. Enough for a lot of Goodies to bulldoze half of the world.


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## xenon54 out

LordTyrannus said:


> You should try to use glasses. Russia only has 10% of its GDP as debt. We can easily take 500 Billions of credits any time in war situation. Reserves are also 500 billion. That makes 1 trillion dollars for Wartimes and weapon purchase. Enough for a lot of Goodies to bulldoze half of the world.


And the world will enjoy another Soviet Collapse.

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## Arzamas 16

flamer84 said:


> Doubt it.Russian economy is downhill,*most likely contract this year*.No more pessos for you.




Dead wrong.

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## he-man

usernameless said:


> It's quite simple. If Nato doesnt help Turkey, Nato will lose a strategic country that is among the most progressive country within nato. Sure nato can drop Turkey, but are they willing to lose one of the most important nato country? Turkey switching to the anti-Nato camp will be very disadvantageous for Europe. Especially once Turkey also has pipeline connection from central Asia. Anyway, i don't believe in a war with Russia in the short term. Neither do i believe that nukes will ever be used to solve any problems between Turkey and Russia.



Turkey cannot win against india,forget russia.

No offence to turks but its just not happening at least in another 30-40 years

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## usernameless

he-man said:


> Turkey cannot win against india,forget russia.
> 
> No offence to turks but its just not happening at least in another 30-40 years


What is not happening in 30-40 years? And my msg was about Nato, not about Turkey being able to beat Russia or India.

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## LordTyrannus

You worship NATO.


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## UKBengali

xenon54 said:


> _________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nato.int/terrorism/five.htm



That treaty is as worthless as the one given to Ukraine by US and UK to protect it's territorial integrity in return for given up nuclear weapons in the 1990s.

It is hilarious that Russia was also a signatory to that as well.

Now can a Turk explain why Europeans would die for them when they don't even allow them into the EU?


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## xenon54 out

UKBengali said:


> That treaty is as worthless as the one given to Ukraine by US and UK to protect it's territorial integrity in return for given up nuclear weapons in the 1990s.
> 
> It is hilarious that Russia was also a signatory to that as well.
> 
> Now can a Turk explain why Europeans would die for them when they don't even allow them into the EU?


Your completely mixing things up, how can Russia sign Nato arcticles if they are not even a member?

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## usernameless

UKBengali said:


> Now can a Turk explain why Europeans would die for them when they don't even allow them into the EU?


Read my last posts on the previous page and try to reply in an objective way.


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## Declein

UKBengali said:


> Now can a Turk explain why Europeans would die for them when they don't even allow them into the EU?



NATO is not EU, article 5 will be supported, Turkey and EU are a different matter with a different cause.

It's irrelevant, nobody in this world would dare attack a NATO country and test USA's resolve in the matter

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## LordTyrannus

Declein said:


> NATO is not EU, article 5 will be supported, Turkey and EU are a different matter with a different cause.
> 
> It's irrelevant, nobody in this world would dare attack a NATO country and test USA's resolve in the matter


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## atatwolf

They have given up comparing Turkish navy to Russian navy  Sore loosers

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## he-man

atatwolf said:


> They have given up comparing Turkish navy to Russian navy  Sore loosers



Go and see the full russian navy.
Only subs are enough for turkey and india.

Almost any nation except usa,china and france

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## TurAr

Damn these fanboys have got some nerve to even compare Russian junks with Western technology.

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## he-man

TurAr said:


> Damn these fanboys have got some nerve to even compare Russian junks with Western technology.



Now u turks consider urself western.lol

Without tot u can't make half the stuff

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## TurAr

he-man said:


> Now u turks consider urself western.lol



I didn't say anything about our identity but our technology.



> Without tot u can't make half the stuff



Now that is the thing you should cry me about.

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## Hashshāshīn

he-man said:


> Now u turks consider urself western.lol
> 
> Without tot u can't make half the stuff


He didn't say Turkey was western. Their weapons are, though.

I wouldn't say Russian 'junk', but compared to US military tech... the whole world is junk.

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## he-man

Hashshāshīn said:


> He didn't say Turkey was western. Their weapons are, though.
> 
> I wouldn't say Russian 'junk', but compared to US military tech... the whole world is junk.



The point is turkey vs russia.
Even with western weapons they can't sustain war for a week without nato help

Even they know it.

The russians have a shitload of missiles,they just need to press a button

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## he-man

TurAr said:


> I didn't say anything about our identity but our technology.
> 
> 
> 
> Now that is the thing you should cry me about.



Just like after buying rafale it dosen't become india's tech..same goes for ur f-16 and f-35(soon to come)

Be a little objective here.even a declined russia has the capability second only to usa as far as military is concerned as it can make all on its own.

Other nations have no right to laugh at russia

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## TurAr

he-man said:


> The point is turkey vs russia.
> Even with western weapons they can't sustain war for a week without nato help
> 
> Even they know it.
> 
> The russians have a shitload of missiles,they just need to press a button



I can see that you have plenty of time to share your silly predictions based on pure fantasies from the mud you are living in. But i can assure you, nobody is interested to hear them.

"Turkey has superior quality and technology but they wouldn't have built half the stuff they have without Western tot" should be your main argument. You should hold on to it and try to make a point over it instead of saying some retarded shit like how Russia could defeat Turkey by two submarines and by push of a button.

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## he-man

TurAr said:


> I can see that you have plenty of time to share your silly predictions based on pure fantasies from the mud you are living in. But i can assure you, nobody is interested to hear them.
> 
> "Turkey has superior quality and technology but they wouldn't have built half the stuff they have without Western tot" should be your main argument. You should hold on to it and try to make a point over it instead of saying some retarded shit like how Russia could defeat Turkey by two submarines and by push of a button.



U are as stupid as I thought u would be.

Ur nation can't launch a satellite and u are going all gung ho here.

Lol.

On the top of it india is not mud compared to turkey,oh no.

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## TurAr

he-man said:


> U are as stupid as I thought u would be.
> 
> Ur nation can't launch a satellite and u are going all gung ho here.
> 
> Lol.
> 
> On the top of it india is not mud compared to turkey,oh no.



Turkey can't launch satellite so Russia can defeat Turkey by push of a button? Sorry bud, your arguments still need some improvements. Don't give up just yet though.

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## LordTyrannus

TurAr said:


> I can see that you have plenty of time to share your silly predictions based on pure fantasies from the mud you are living in. But i can assure you, nobody is interested to hear them.
> 
> "Turkey has superior quality and technology but they wouldn't have built half the stuff they have without Western tot" should be your main argument. You should hold on to it and try to make a point over it instead of saying some retarded shit like how Russia could defeat Turkey by two submarines and by push of a button.



Hahaha. You have superior Technology? You still use M60 tanks and F4 phantoms in your military. Just shut up and run for your life.


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## he-man

TurAr said:


> Turkey can't launch satellite so Russia can defeat Turkey by push of a button? Sorry bud, your arguments still need some improvements. Don't give up just yet though.



am I supposed to laugh or cry on that


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## xenon54 out

LordTyrannus said:


> Turks are so full of themselfs that they cant grasp Reality. It´s a Joke, they think they are westerners but west gives a damn about them. In Germany all Turks are cheap labor or live from welfare. The Germans hate them. In France Turks are under Police control.
> 
> Thilo Sarrazin did write a book called "Deutschland schafft sich ab" it selled many million times in Germany and tells how the Turks lower IQ Level of German society.


And do you think they have a different view about Russians here?

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## Superboy

Turkey has no destroyers, no nuclear subs, no heavy fighters. Turkey has nothing that can take on Admiral Gorshkov frigates, Yasen subs, Su-35S jets. If other NATO countries fight on Turkey's side, China would fight on Russia's side, and that would be the end of the world as we know it.

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## UKBengali

xenon54 said:


> Your completely mixing things up, how can Russia sign Nato arcticles if they are not even a member?




No it was not a Nato article but a promise by US, UK and Russia(lol) in 1994 to preserve Ukraine's territorial integrity in return for it giving up nuclear weapons.

The US and UK have clearly not abided by this promise, so no reason to think they definitely will come to Turkey's aid in a conflict with Russia.

When you think about it deeply, even the UK and France do not fully trust the US to come to their aid in the event that they are attacked by a power like Russia, that has the capability to destroy the US(yes the US can do the same to Russia I know), so it seems logical that Turks cannot have a guarantee that the US would get involved in a war between Russia and Turkey.


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## usernameless

UKBengali said:


> No it was not a Nato article but a promise by US, UK and Russia(lol) in 1994 to preserve Ukraine's territorial integrity in return for it giving up nuclear weapons.
> The US and UK have clearly not abided by this promise, so no reason to think they definitely will come to Turkey's aid in a conflict with Russia.


and what does it say about Russia then? don't try to bring in historic claims or the voting, because it was not whole Ukraine that voted about it. or is this justified because you're against the west?


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## UKBengali

usernameless said:


> and what does it say about Russia then? don't try to bring in historic claims or the voting, because it was not whole Ukraine that voted about it. or is this justified because you're against the west?




All it says is that promises do not mean anything concrete.

Turkey gets certain benefits by being part of Nato (access to weapons and training) but it should not believe this "collective defence" doctrine against a country like Russia that can destroy the whole of Western Europe and US if it felt cornered.

Turks should start planning for a multi-polar world, and if they want to be one of the big-fish in the sea then they need to think about building their own nuclear deterrent.

Personally I would love nothing more than a economically and militarily developed Turkey that is one of the key independent powers in the future.


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## Superboy

usernameless said:


> and what does it say about Russia then? don't try to bring in historic claims or the voting, because it was not whole Ukraine that voted about it. or is this justified because you're against the west?




Did Turkey ask what the rest of Syria thought about Hatay becoming part of Turkey? Didn't think so. 

Syria–Turkey relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## xenon54 out

UKBengali said:


> No it was not a Nato article but a promise by US, UK and Russia(lol) in 1994 to preserve Ukraine's territorial integrity in return for it giving up nuclear weapons.
> 
> The US and UK have clearly not abided by this promise, so no reason to think they definitely will come to Turkey's aid in a conflict with Russia.
> 
> When you think about it deeply, even the UK and France do not fully trust the US to come to their aid in the event that they are attacked by a power like Russia, that has the capability to destroy the US(yes the US can do the same to Russia I know), so it seems logical that Turks cannot have a guarantee that the US would get involved in a war between Russia and Turkey.


This is different than Nato agreement, Nato would loose its reliability if the wouldnt help their ally.

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## UKBengali

xenon54 said:


> This is different than Nato agreement, Nato would loose its reliability if the wouldnt help their ally.



I don't know why you guys don't understand that the US would much rather Nato disband in favour of not being destroyed in a nuclear war with Russia.

Thermonuclear war is final and complete death - wish some people would understand that.

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## Superboy

xenon54 said:


> This is different than Nato agreement, Nato would loose its reliability if the wouldnt help their ally.




It depends on the circumstance. If Russia for some reason invades Turkey, by NATO charter that would be an invasion of the US. But it is not really an invasion of the US, so the US may elect to not do anything about it.

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## he-man

UKBengali said:


> I don't know why you guys don't understand that the US would much rather Nato disband in favour of not being destroyed in a nuclear war with Russia.
> 
> Thermonuclear war is final and complete death - wish some people would understand that.



Pretty much sums it up


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## LordTyrannus

Turkish generals always told their boys that Daddy NATO will save them in War times. But daddy NATO/USA/West cut those Generals down one by one. Now turkish conscripts are toysoldiers in the hands of Western generals


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## UKBengali

Superboy said:


> It depends on the circumstance. If Russia for some reason invades Turkey, by NATO charter that would be an invasion of the US. But it is not really an invasion of the US, so the US may elect to not do anything about it.



Exactly.

If the US even starts using conventional force against Russia, then the Russians may reply with tactical nuclear weapons. US hits back with it's own tactical nuclear weapons and the Russians may be tempted to launch an ICBM strike on US to stop them from interfering. The risk of escalation to full blown nuclear war is so great that the US would most likely sit it out and just condemn Russia.

During the cold war, the US sent 300,000 soldiers to West Germany to try to convince Western Europe that it would be prepared to fight to the death against the old Soviet Union. No such force exists in Turkey as a reassurance.

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## Hakan

There will be no war.


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## he-man

Kaan said:


> There will be no war.



True

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## LordTyrannus

Yes there will be war. You can bet on that. China will rise like a sleeping dragon and spit fire upon the western lackeys.

They are the red horse of apocalypse. "The Red beast rising from the Seas" (Revelation 13). Until 2030 China will outnumber USA in carrier-battlegroups.

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## Superboy

Suppose Russia attacks Turkey and backs a Kurdish independence movement to make Turkey smaller, much like what Russia did to Georgia in 2008 and what India did to Pakistan in 1971. Why should the US care to get involved? I don't see any reason for US military action in such a scenario.

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## xenon54 out

UKBengali said:


> I don't know why you guys don't understand that the US would much rather Nato disband in favour of not being destroyed in a nuclear war with Russia.
> 
> Thermonuclear war is final and complete death - wish some people would understand that.


Nuclear weapons are allways the last argument of you guys but why should Russia attack US with nuclear weapons if they would get the same response?
And as for Turkey, the Nato defence shield is exacly for defending Russian and Chinese ballistic missiles, so Turkey is also protected, not to mention the Nuclear sharing.

Anyways, its getting ridiculous how you are making scenarios out of nowhere, you can believe whatever you want, i still say Russia cant attack a Nato country, espacially a Nato country with a strong military.

Like i said, believe whatever you want if it makes you feel better, im out of this.

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## Superboy

Iran and Iraq and Syria, the three big Muslim countries bordering Turkey, are enemies of Turkey. Russia would be able to use their bases and bases of Armenia to launch attacks on Turkey, especially on the Kurdish majority east and southeast regions of Turkey.


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## damm1t

Superboy said:


> Iran and Iraq and Syria, the three big Muslim countries bordering Turkey, are enemies of Turkey. Russia would be able to use their bases and bases of Armenia to launch attacks on Turkey, especially on the Kurdish majority east and southeast regions of Turkey.



Listen dude I supposed you are a chienese guy living in canada most probably you are convinced to be that your country is kind of superpower and talk like a deep analyst who is expert on ME, Nato, Turkey with a fvking superiority complex. (your avatar and nickname proves it) neither your talk is worthy nor russia,china are close to be superpower. 

You talk like Turkey has no army and completely rely on Nato, our armed forces are in top 10 in the world by all means and it's very well enough to hurt russia without Nato. Iran and Iraq are no way enemies of Turkey they will remain neutral in such a incident, go search some shit. so if armenia lets russia to use bases to attack Turkey ofcourse they will be the first target and syria aswell. Probably azerbaijan and georgia will get in game with Turkey. 

I tell you what, you keep saying why usa would sacrifice itself if Turkey get attacked, this argument even alone proves your nonsense. I will try to make it simple for you, first of all if someone dare to attack Nato it means to challange the west, challange to all interests and everything what west offer for its allies. Nato is the most powerful element that keeps western countries together in safe so let's say X Nato country get attacked by non-Nato member Y country... if Nato wouldn't response immediately, you know what will happen? (main headlines)

Nato will collapse, Nato = Article 5.
No other alliance of western countries will be deterrent power.
Balance of world power will shift, west no more
Noone will respect west, USA will lost its reliability
Rising eastern powers will gain a lot, an alliance of asians will lead

So west and usa will not let this scenario happen, attacking a nato member means attacking directly west and usa interests which they need them for surviving. So it's also a worldwar starter. russia is reckless but I don't think they will risk their excistence by attacking Nato. It's a "who is the boss" thing so if someone dare to mess with boss he must be ready for the coincidences, otherwise the boss becomes a clown.

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## Superboy

IMO NATO is pretty much useless. NATO is not a country. NATO does not have a military. BTW, Russia is getting loads of new warships and subs this year. And I mean loads.  Russia would not invade another country unless there is a pretext for invasion. Russia attacked Georgia and Ukraine on humanitarian grounds. If Kurds secede from Turkey and Turkish troops invade Kurdish lands, then Russia would attack Turkey on humanitarian pretext.  Sevastopol itself is a huge military air and naval base, and poses a huge threat to Turkey due to proximity to Ankara and Istanbul.

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## Neptune

Superboy said:


> IMO NATO is pretty much useless. NATO is not a country. NATO does not have a military. BTW, Russia is getting loads of new warships and subs this year. And I mean loads.  Russia would not invade another country unless there is a pretext for invasion. Russia attacked Georgia and Ukraine on humanitarian grounds. If Kurds secede from Turkey and Turkish troops invade Kurdish lands, then Russia would attack Turkey on humanitarian pretext.



Ahahah then where was that drunk as$ russian bear during the Operation Sun where we gone hardcore in Iraq

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## damm1t

Superboy said:


> IMO NATO is pretty much useless. NATO is not a country. NATO does not have a military. BTW, Russia is getting loads of new warships and subs this year. And I mean loads.  Russia would not invade another country unless there is a pretext for invasion. Russia attacked Georgia and Ukraine on humanitarian grounds. If Kurds secede from Turkey and Turkish troops invade Kurdish lands, then Russia would attack Turkey on humanitarian pretext.



Ultimate shit.. doesnt deserve a proper answer... your ignorance and resistance against accepting facts is impressive

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## Superboy

Neptune said:


> Ahahah then where was that drunk as$ russian bear during the Operation Sun where we gone hardcore in Iraq




The fight was in Iraq, not in Turkey. Iraq, an old rival of Turkey, continues to back Kurdish independence from Turkey.


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## Neptune

Superboy said:


> The fight was in Iraq, not in Turkey.



Nope. Do research. See you can't save the day with a bottle of vodka in your hand. Russia can roar on weak states only. Thus North Caucasian army sh.t on their pants during Checnian insurgery.


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## usernameless

Superboy said:


> The fight was in Iraq, not in Turkey. Iraq, an old rival of Turkey, continues to back Kurdish independence from Turkey.


let iraq first deal with KRG before they break away from Iraq permanently. writing half assed one-liners makes you rather look like a silly boy.


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## Superboy

Neptune said:


> Russia can roar on weak states only.




Russia is over 21 times the size of Turkey. The US blasted away Iraq. Ukraine and Georgia were no match for Russia. Turkey would be vulnerable to Russian attack if no ally fights on Turkey's side. From Sevastopol, Russia would be able to launch a massive air campaign against Turkey.

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## LordTyrannus

Superboy said:


> Russia is over 21 times the size of Turkey. The US blasted away Iraq. Ukraine and Georgia were no match for Russia. Turkey would be vulnerable to Russian attack if no ally fights on Turkey's side. From Sevastopol, Russia would be able to launch a massive air campaign against Turkey.



Turks are a force. They have a good Army, but without NATO Russia would steamroll them.


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## usernameless

LordTyrannus said:


> Turks are a force. They have a good Army, but without NATO Russia would steamroll them.


Congrats, there is improvement of realism in your posts. Maybe you, as a Russian, can teach some of them foreign Russia fanboys about at least some realism because they obviously dont seem to (want to) listen to us

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## LordTyrannus

usernameless said:


> Congrats, there is improvement of realism in your posts. Maybe you, as a Russian, can teach some of them foreign Russia fanboys about at least some realism because they obviously dont seem to (want to) listen to us



You should worship NATO for saving your Anuses. Hey wait. You already do!

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## damm1t

Just matter of time we get that damn air defense toy and some more range for our missiles needed... Russians won't bark anymore in the day we finished all of those improvements one by one aside ongoing projects like indigenous fighter, armed drones, sat network, missiles with a range of 2500 km, warships, air defense and so on... A couple of decades more...

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## atatwolf

LordTyrannus said:


> You should worship NATO for saving your Anuses. Hey wait. You already do!


Youcouldn't even conquer Afghanistan.Good luck with dreaming about conquering Turkey. Turks won from Armenians, Greeks, British, New zealand, Australia, Indians and traitors on their own. We can have Russia for breakfast

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## general_yermolov_stalin

LordTyrannus said:


> Turks are a force. They have a good Army, but without NATO Russia would steamroll them.


Agreed here.The only problem will be the turkish grey wolves intelligence appartus who can start an insurrection in the caucusus and turkey and exhaust our forces via guerilla war.



damm1t said:


> Just matter of time we get that damn air defense toy and some more range for our missiles needed... Russians won't bark anymore in the day we finished all of those improvements one by one aside ongoing projects like indigenous fighter, armed drones, sat network, missiles with a range of 2500 km, warships, air defense and so on... A couple of decades more...




Unless you have indigenous nuclear weapons capability ,you are not capable of standing against russia. Better you order 50 long range nuclear missiles from pakistan with nuclear warheads if you really want to be in a position to fight us off.



atatwolf said:


> Youcouldn't even conquer Afghanistan.Good luck with dreaming about conquering Turkey. Turks won from Armenians, Greeks, British, New zealand, Australia, Indians and traitors on their own. We can have Russia for breakfast



yet russia won most of the wars against ottomans.

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## atatwolf

general_yermolov_stalin said:


> yet russia won most of the wars against ottomans.


*Grand Duke Mikhail Yaroslavich Being Murdered by Turks*
*




*
*He didn't want to bow down for us *

*Don't forget to pay tribute to us. You don't need to send your girls. We will pick them up *

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## LordTyrannus

Fact is Turks was used as peasants and servants in Ottoman empire.

Military was in the hand of janissaries picked balcanians. The politics was in Arabic and Persian hands. Turks were a underpriviledged ethnicity in the empire.

Still you think Ottoman Empire is something to be proud of. I mean they stole everything you turks had and left you to starve in the deserts of anatolia.


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## general_yermolov_stalin

atatwolf said:


> *Grand Duke Mikhail Yaroslavich Being Murdered by Turks*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *He didn't want to bow down for us *
> 
> *Don't forget to pay tribute to us. You don't need to send your girls. We will pick them up *





atatwolf said:


> *Grand Duke Mikhail Yaroslavich Being Murdered by Turks*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *He didn't want to bow down for us *
> 
> *Don't forget to pay tribute to us. You don't need to send your girls. We will pick them up *



Well you circassians can send your women to russia.After all circassian women were sold in ottoman sex slave markets and your people would offer your women to russian princes to for sex and marriage.After all circassians want right to return .We will give circassian women right to return.

A lot of Terek cossacks stole circassian,tatar,turkic and ottoman women .

But still turkics lost majority of wars to russia.


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## atatwolf

I hope Putin will be smarter than mister Yaroslavich and bow down to the new Golden Horde, otherwise he might face the same fate

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## usernameless

Cut the crap guys, no need for such immature nonsense talk. @general_yermolov_stalin Welcome to pdf and i look forward to your objective comments. I also want to add that you're right about Turkey needing independent nukes for a 100% guaranteed safety. Though i dont believe Turkey and Russia will need nukes to solve our problems.

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## damm1t

LordTyrannus said:


> Fact is Turks was used as peasants and servants in Ottoman empire.
> 
> Military was in the hand of janissaries picked balcanians. The politics was in Arabic and Persian hands. Turks were a underpriviledged ethnicity in the empire.
> 
> Still you think Ottoman Empire is something to be proud of. I mean they stole everything you turks had and left you to starve in the deserts of anatolia.



is this what russian education system taught you? and deserts of anatolia?? if so I am done discussing with russians from now on ... and I feel so damn lazy trying to educate you, yet I am afraid you are an uneducatable one since we can't get any further with you...

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## general_yermolov_stalin

atatwolf said:


> Keep dreaming while Russian girls already streaming into Turkey to get that old taste. It is written in their DNA after centuries of conditioning.



again ,this is influence of lenin,trotsky and gorbachev all bloody jewish perverters of moral values and destroyer of cultures.You turks have better chances against us if you become tengri or jewish .These are the only two powers that defeated us successfully.As long as islam you will continue losing to us. And a lot of russians have cherkess,ossete and chechen haplogroup.Which means cossacks carried away a lot of circassian and chechen women and russian forces forcibly converted a lot of circassians . 

Good enough.

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## doremon

general_yermolov_stalin said:


> again ,this is influence of lenin,trotsky and gorbachev all bloody jewish perverters of moral values and destroyer of cultures.You turks have better chances against us if you become tengri or jewish .These are the only two powers that defeated us successfully.As long as islam you will continue losing to us. And a lot of russians have cherkess,ossete and chechen haplogroup.Which means cossacks carried away a lot of circassian and chechen women and russian forces forcibly converted a lot of circassians .
> 
> Good enough.


dont no use talking to turks they are the most violent beast ,and they hate russia,sadly russia is thousand times much more peacefull and respects its minorities more than turkey ,and i thought turks were educated this thread proves they are just another mind fucked islamist ...


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## Hakan



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## 500

Superboy said:


> Turkey has nothing that can take on Admiral Gorshkov frigates


Harpoon, SOM, Popeye.



> Yasen subs


Too bulky for Aegian, cant enter the Black Sea.



> Su-35S jets.


AIM-120



> If other NATO countries fight on Turkey's side, China would fight on Russia's side


lol

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## Desi Guy

Russia will turn turkey into a glass and turks into tandoori chicken !!

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## Superboy

500 said:


> Harpoon, SOM, Popeye.
> 
> 
> Too bulky for Aegian, cant enter the Black Sea.
> 
> 
> AIM-120
> 
> 
> lol




I meant ship




500 said:


> Too bulky for Aegian, cant enter the Black Sea.




Sure it could.




500 said:


> AIM-120


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## general_yermolov_stalin

Desi Guy said:


> Russia will turn turkey into a glass and turks into tandoori chicken !!



Turkey is a pushover.Rothschild his anglo-jewish empire of USA,UK and Israel.Much bigger threat.They are the only guys who brought us on our knees in 1991 via subversion and sabotage.


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## Hakan

Based on the analysis of several high level military analysts Turkey will be nuked in the future. It is also important to note that these analysts believe that NATO has no significance. Another important piece of information that was brought forward by these analysts was that they anticipate that the U.S will not respond to a nuclear strike targeting U.S cities which is bound to occur sometime in the near future.

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## Wave

doremon said:


> dont no use talking to turks they are the most violent beast ,and they hate russia,sadly russia is thousand times much more peacefull and respects its minorities more than turkey ,and i thought turks were educated this thread proves they are just another mind fucked islamist ...


Haha damn thats some nice engrishu
It just makes ur point even more clear


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## atatwolf

Kaan said:


> Based on the analysis of several high level military analysts Turkey will be nuked in the future. It is also important to note that these analysts believe that NATO has no significance. Another important piece of information that was brought forward by these analysts was that they anticipate that the U.S will not respond to a nuclear strike targeting U.S cities which is bound to occur sometime in the near future.


Source?



general_yermolov_stalin said:


> Turkey is a pushover.Rothschild his anglo-jewish empire of USA,UK and Israel.Much bigger threat.They are the only guys who brought us on our knees in 1991 via subversion and sabotage.


Americans brought you on your knees with cold war. The Turkics brought you on your knees with their boot up your arse.


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## general_yermolov_stalin

> Americans brought you on your knees with cold war. The Turkics brought you on your knees with their boot up your arse



well, turks failed .And we know the turkic race was effectively genocided.Their conversion to islam was the biggest factor nd not America ,but the clique of international forces like Rothschild. Today,we control 80% of Russia formerly islamic territory.



> We are making progress, at least you acknowledge your current state of Russian women.  The Russian street prostitutes I saw and Russian women in discos searching for foreign mushroom tip didn't look Circassian to me. They all had slavic genes that are manipulated by Golden Horde to be promiscuous to survive



At least as not as many as circassians sold in ottoman harems and the ottoman slave market in 1864,when your ancestors to survive had to sell their women enmasse . 






Looking at the women,very slavic to me.Not balkan variety ,but definitely cossack female type looking.Maybe cossacks impregnated their ancestors too. seems 1864 seems to be in their genes and collective conscious afterall they were ravished by cossacks in russia and then by turks in ottoman empire lol.






Looks slavic to me. So which was it ? were they slavic tribe or they were mass raped by cossacks?

Kazan turks begging for mercy from ivan the terrible:












and circassians being kicked out of circassia by cossacks:

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## victor07

Russia will place a regiment of Tu-22M3 (about 30 aircrafts) in the Crimea until 2016 and Iskander missiles as well.
На аэродроме в Симферополе разместят ракетоносцы Ту-22М3 вЂ” Юрий Гаврилов вЂ” Российская газета
Tu-22's weapons currently include up to 3 X-22 or 10 X-15. Moderinization includes possibility to use X-555, X-101, Yakhont/Brahmos
Ту-22М3: варианты вооружения | Блог В. Мейлицева




Also ground forces will include Bastion complexes armed with Onyx/Yakhont/Bramhos missiles.




So no problem with NATO from the South.

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## The SC

LordTyrannus said:


> Turks are a force. They have a good Army, but without NATO Russia would steamroll them.



I would ratter say that without Turkey, Russia will stemroll NATO very easily, since the Turks were the toughest frontline soldiers in NATO history, Facts: Read about the Korean War and other instances.

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## atatwolf

general_yermolov_stalin said:


> well, turks failed .And we know the turkic race was effectively genocided.Their conversion to islam was the biggest factor nd not America ,but the clique of international forces like Rothschild. Today,we control 80% of Russia formerly islamic territory.
> 
> 
> 
> At least as not as many as circassians sold in ottoman harems and the ottoman slave market in 1864,when your ancestors to survive had to sell their women enmasse .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at the women,very slavic to me.Not balkan variety ,but definitely cossack female type looking.Maybe cossacks impregnated their ancestors too. seems 1864 seems to be in their genes and collective conscious afterall they were ravished by cossacks in russia and then by turks in ottoman empire lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks slavic to me. So which was it ? were they slavic tribe or they were mass raped by cossacks?


Circassians look Slavic because they raided land of Rus with Tatar Turks  You know we raided your homelands for centuries? We picked the best ones, the remaining were too ugly. So your ancestors have to had to bow down to us for you to exist and your female ancestors to ugly to be picked up by us. Russian girls still have this promiscuity gene that made them survive under our rule. It is outdated gene but you still have it. I think it is just matter of time that golden horde returns that is why Russian women still have this promiscuity gene


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## general_yermolov_stalin

The SC said:


> I would ratter say that without Turkey, Russia will stemroll NATO very easily, since the Turks were the toughest frontline soldiers in NATO history, Facts: Read about the Korean War and other instances.



I doubt that .USA is toughest guy in NATO and no pushover.IF they like they can seize eastern russia magadan oblast in event of war. Turkey is cannon fodder of nato .A pushover.The real threats and command center of NATO ,UK and USA.


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## The SC

general_yermolov_stalin said:


> again ,this is influence of lenin,trotsky and gorbachev all bloody jewish perverters of moral values and destroyer of cultures.You turks have better chances against us if you become tengri or jewish .These are the only two powers that defeated us successfully.As long as islam you will continue losing to us. And a lot of russians have cherkess,ossete and chechen haplogroup.Which means cossacks carried away a lot of circassian and chechen women and russian forces forcibly converted a lot of circassians .
> 
> Good enough.



Hello wannabe General Stalin, if Muslims wanted to conquer your north pole lands, they would have done it like they did to India that was supposed to be impregnable even by Alexander the great.

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## 500

Superboy said:


> I meant ship


I mean too.



> Sure it could.


Nuclear ships are not allowed in Black Sea. Plus straits are controlled by Turkey.


>


Su-35 is nothing but modernized Su-27. Its not even semi stealth like EFT or Rafale.

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## xenon54 out

I dont like to generalize but from what i have seen is many Indians are sucking up to Russia and some other countrys like none else, they have limited knowledge about Eurasian policy but still dare to raise their mouth, just stop it allready if you dont want to humiliate yourselves.
What do you think on whose side Russia is on China-India conflicts, Russia will not give a damn about India, allweather friend my ***, there is no friendship in policy espacially not from Russian side for India against China...

Many of the Russian fanboys only argument is ''Russia will bomb Turkey to stone age'', just cut this shit allready.....

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## The SC

general_yermolov_stalin said:


> I doubt that .USA is toughest guy in NATO and no pushover.IF they like they can seize eastern russia magadan oblast in event of war. Turkey is cannon fodder of nato .A pushover.The real threats and command center of NATO ,UK and USA.



That is because of nuclear weapons or else. On the ground, I can not assess whose toughest, the US, UK or the Russian since they have not faced each other directely.
I know the fact that the NATO Turks were first to arrive to the combat zones and the last to leave it, confirming my statement that they are some of the thoughest if not the toughest NATO soldiers.

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## victor07

atatwolf said:


> Circassians look Slavic because they raided land of Rus with Tatar Turks  You know we raided your homelands for centuries? We picked the best ones, the remaining were too ugly. So your ancestors have to had to bow down to us for you to exist and your female ancestors to ugly to be picked up by us. Russian girls still have this promiscuity gene that made them survive under our rule. It is outdated gene but you still have it. I think it is just matter of time that golden horde returns that is why Russian women still have this promiscuity gene



Probably ugliest girls

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## general_yermolov_stalin

atatwolf said:


> Circassians look Slavic because they raided land of Rus with Tatar Turks  You know we raided your homelands for centuries? We picked the best ones, the remaining were too ugly. So your ancestors have to had to bow down to us for you to exist and your female ancestors to ugly to be picked up by us. Russian girls still have this promiscuity gene that made them survive under our rule. It is outdated gene but you still have it. I think it is just matter of time that golden horde returns that is why Russian women still have this promiscuity gene



Funny,because no circassian work claims that you raided land of Rus. Even under Ivan the terrible , a circassian king gave ivan his daughter in exchange for protection from chechens ,tatars and ottomans.Most circassian forum members call us russian ugly orcs with ugly beauty and claim that we cossacks stole their beautiful women.Funny thing most beautiful and most promisicous women in Russia are in Krasnodar Krai .And the strange thing krasnoder krai was FORMERLY CIRCASSIAN TERRITORY and cossacks forcibly married and raped hundreds of thousands of circassian women there.The largest circassian concentration was krasnodar krai. So,that sums it up. We raped circassians .Ottoman also raped and sold your women and your women most sold in ottoman market.So circassian woman most promisicous of all white women.

So for russian and ottoman ,it was win win .For circassian only lose lose.



The SC said:


> That is because of nuclear weapons or else. On the ground, I can not assess whose toughest, the US, UK or the Russian since they have not faced each other directely.
> I know the fact that the NATO Turks were first to arrive to the combat zones and the last to leave it, confirming my statement that they are some of the thoughest if not the toughest NATO soldiers.



The turks lost almost all their wars to us. The british and german,especially german ,the best soldiers .USA has good airforce .We russian have good artillery.

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## LordTyrannus

Kaan said:


> Based on the analysis of several high level military analysts Turkey will be nuked in the future. It is also important to note that these analysts believe that NATO has no significance. Another important piece of information that was brought forward by these analysts was that they anticipate that the U.S will not respond to a nuclear strike targeting U.S cities which is bound to occur sometime in the near future.



Yes i know, Who told you? I t was a S E C R E T.

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## atatwolf

general_yermolov_stalin said:


> Funny,because no circassian work claims that you raided land of Rus. Even under Ivan the terrible , a circassian king gave ivan his daughter in exchange for protection from chechens


You got one daughter of Circassian king. We got countless daughters of Russian kings, princes and noblemen to tone our lust but that didn't stop us raiding the land of rus for centuries. That explains why Russian girls are know for promisicity while muslims like Circassians not. It is known in every country and you know who teached your women this trade 



> ,tatars and ottomans.Most circassian forum members call us russian ugly orcs with ugly beauty and claim that we cossacks stole their beautiful women.Funny thing most beautiful and most promisicous women in Russia are in Krasnodar Krai .And the strange thing krasnoder krai was FORMERLY CIRCASSIAN TERRITORY and cossacks forcibly married and raped hundreds of thousands of circassian women there.The largest circassian concentration was krasnodar krai. So,that sums it up. We raped circassians .Ottoman also raped and sold your women and your women most sold in ottoman market.So circassian woman most promisicous of all white women.


You are orcs comapred to Circassians. They are known for their beauty. It might be true that you commited genocide on them but most of them fled to Turkey. Plus there are enough muslims in Russia to take their revenge which is matter of time. Also Circassians abroad will do everything for Russian federation to colapse and help Chechens and the like. You might come up with your stupid theory about krasnodar krai but ho's of Russia don't come out of muslim areas but pure slavic areas. Also from what I have seen those Russian prostitutes they didn't look Circassian and I know how Circassians look like. I also have seen Russians visiting Turkey, they were pure slavic, they visit with girl group and sleep around. I had one from a place in west Russia but I forget the name of the city. She was easy as f. Hell I even had Russian female class mate. She was from Moscow. Pure slavic and she slept with everybody  Once in a while during going out she would disappear with different guy

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## surya kiran

Russian Black Sea Fleet 2014 :: All Surface Combatants, Submarines, Littoral Warfare Ships, Rescue and Auxiliary Ships

*11th Anti-submarine Ship Brigade
Moskva*Guided Missile Cruiser
121
*Kerch*Large ASW Destroyer
713
*Smetlivyy*Frigate
810
*Ladnyy*Frigate
801
*Pytlivyy*Frigate
808
*RK-1078*Harbor Boat
*RK-1210*Harbor Boat
*RK-1287*Harbor Boat
*RK-1414*Harbor Boat
*RK-1676*Harbor Boat
*RBK-1299*Harbor Boat


*247th Independent Submarine Division
Alrosa* Diesel Attack Submarine
*B-380* Diesel Attack Submarine
*B-435* Diesel Attack Submarine
*PZS-50* Floating Charging Station
*UTS-247* Training-submarine


*197th Landing Ship Brigade
Nikolay Filchenkov*Large Landing Ship
152
*Orsk*Large Landing Ship
148
*Saratov*Large Landing Ship
150
*Azov*Large Landing Ship
151
*Novocherkassk*Large Landing Ship
142
*Tsezar Kunikov*Large Landing Ship
158
*Yamal*Large Landing Ship
156


*68th Coastal Defense Ship Brigade *
_149th Tactical Group_
*Alexandrovets*Large ASW Corvette
059
*Suzdalets*Large ASW Corvette
071
*Muromets*Large ASW Corvette
064
*Vladimirets*Large ASW Corvette
060

_150th Tactical Group_
*Kovrovets*Seagoing Minesweeper
913
*Ivan Golubets*Seagoing Minesweeper
911
*Turbinist*Seagoing Minesweeper
912
*Vice-admiral Zhukov*Seagoing Minesweeper
909
_102th Anti-Saboteur Squad_
*P-331*Anti-saboteur Boat
831
*P-407*Anti-saboteur Boat
833
_Coastal base_
*VM-122*Diving Tender
*TL-842*Torpedo Retriever
842
*TL-857*Torpedo Retriever
857
*TL-997*Torpedo Retriever
997
*TL-1539*Torpedo Retriever
1539
*UTS-415*Training Ship
*RK-516*Harbor Boat
*RK-518*Harbor Boat
2 harbor boats (RK-399)


*41th Missile Boat Brigade*
_166th Novorossiysk Small Missile Ship Division_
*Bora*Guided Missile Corvette
615
*Samum*Guided Missile Corvette
616
*Shtil*Guided Missile Corvette
620
*Mirazh*Guided Missile Corvette
617

_295th Sulinsk Missile Boat Division_
*R-60* Missile Boat
955
*R-239*Missile Boat
953
*R-109*Missile Boat
952
*R-71*Missile Boat
962
*Ivanovets*Missile Boat
954
*BUK-645*Tugboat
645


*184th Novorossiysk Coastal Defense Brigade*
_181th ASW Ships Division_
*Povorino*Large ASW Corvette
053
*Eysk*Large ASW Corvette
054
*Kasimov*Large ASW Corvette
055
_170th Minesweepers Division_
*Zheleznyakov*Seagoing Minesweeper
901
*Valentin Pikul*Seagoing Minesweeper
770
*Vice-admiral Zakharyin*Seagoing Minesweeper
908
*Mineralnye Vody*Base Minesweeper
426
*Leytenant Ilyin*Base Minesweeper
438
*RT-46http://flot.sevastopol.info/ship/tral/rt278.htm*Harbor Minesweeper
201
*RT-278*Harbor Minesweeper
219
*D-144*Landing Craft
575
*D-106*Landing Craft
543
*P-191*Anti-saboteur Boat
840


*519th Independent Intelligence Ship Division
PriazovyeIntelligence* Ship
*EkwatorIntelligence* Ship
*KildinIntelligence* Ship
*LimanIntelligence* Ship


*205th Auxiliary Ship Squad*
_1th Group_
*Enisey*Hospital Ship
*PM-56*Floating Workshop
*PM-138*Floating Workshop
*RB-50*Harbor Tug
*RB-136*Harbor Tug
*RB-244*Harbor Tug
*RB-247*Harbor Tug
*RB-296*Harbor Tug
*RB-389*Harbor Tug
*MB-23 *Seagoing Tug
*MB-173*Seagoing Tug
*MB-174*Seagoing Tug
*PK-3100*Floating Crane
*PK-12050*Floating Crane
*PK-32050*Floating Crane
* PK-128035*Floating Crane
_2th Group_
*Ivan Bubnov*Large Seagoing Tanker
*Iman*Seagoing Tanker
*General RyabikovSeagoing Arma*ment Transport
*Petr GradovEcological Control * Ship
*KIL-158Crane * Ship
*SetunCable * Ship
*Turgay*Transport
*VTR-94* Seagoing Armament Transport
*SR-26*Degaussing Ship
*SR-137*Degaussing Ship
*SR-541*Degaussing Ship
*SR-939*Degaussing Ship
*SFP-183*Physical Fields Control Vessel
_3th Group_
*Indiga*Seagoing Small Tanker
*Istra*Seagoing Small Tanker
*Don*Seagoing Small Tanker
*VTN-99*Seagoing Small Tanker
*BNS-16500*Seagoing Self-Propelled Tank Barge
*MUS-229*Oil/debris skimmer
*MUS-277*Oil/debris skimmer
*MUS-495*Oil/debris skimmer
*MUS-586*Oil/debris skimmer
*MUS-589*Oil/debris skimmer
*BNN-226800* Non-Self-Propelled Tank Barge
*BNN-165250*Self-Propelled Tank Barge
_4th Group_
*BUK-49*Tugboat
*BUK-533*Tugboat
*KSV-1404*Communication Boat
*KSV-1754*Communication Boat
*PSK-55*Passenger Boat
*PSK-537*Passenger Boat
*RK-25*Harbor Boat
*RK-340*Harbor Boat
*RK-1573*Harbor Boat


*115th Commandant's Office
RK-01*Harbor Boat
*RK-51*Harbor Boat
*RK-369*Harbor Boat
*RK-500*Harbor Boat
*RK-558*Harbor Boat
*RK-1529*Harbor Boat
*RK-1897*Harbor Boat
*SN-726*Medical Boat
*PSK-1320*Passenger Boat


*Mine Base
RK-341*Harbor Boat


*Artillery Factory
RK-636*Harbor Boat
*PSK-1320*Passenger Boat


*145th Resue Ship Squad
EPRON*Rescue / Salvage Ship
_1th Group_
*Kommuna*Salvage Ship
*Shakhter*Rescue Tug
*SB-5*Rescue Tug
*SB-36*Rescue Tug
*MB-304 *Rescue Tug
_2th Group_
*PZhS-123*Firefighting Ship
*PZhK-37*Firefighting Boat
*PZhK-45*Firefighting Boat
*VM-9*Diving Tender
*VM-125*Diving Tender
*VM-154*Diving Tender
*RVK-860*Diving Boat


*17th Naval Diving School
VM-34*Diving Tender
*RVK-156*Diving Boat
*RVK-438*Diving Boat
*RVK-617*Diving Boat
*RVK-659*Diving Boat


*280th Target Ship Station
MKSch-38*Target Barge
*MKSch-44*Target Barge
*MKSch-45*Target Barge
*MKSch-46*Target Barge
*SM-69*Target Ship
*SM-377*Target Ship
*RK-621 *Harbor Boat
*RBK-76*Harbor Boat


*13th Shipyard
PD-16Floating Dock
PD-30Floating Dock
PD-32Floating Dock
PD-80Floating Dock
PD-88Floating Dock
PMR-33Non-self-propelled Floating Workshop
PMR-98Non-self-propelled Floating Workshop
PMR-132Non-self-propelled Floating Workshop
BUK-532Tugboat
RB-1301http://flot.sevastopol.info/ship/spasat/rvk1447.htmHarbor Tug 
RVK-1390Diving Boat 
PK-119025Floating Crane
PPKS-27Floating Painting Station
PSK-139Passenger Boat *


*91th Shipyard
PD-19Floating Dock
PMR-84Non-self-propelled Floating Workshop
PMR-95Non-self-propelled Floating Workshop
PMR-183Non-self-propelled Floating Workshop
PK-103030Floating Crane
PPKS-15Floating Painting Station
RB-225Harbor Tug 
RVK-1447Diving Boat 
RK-708*Harbor Boat


*176th Expeditionary Oceanographic Ship Division
Donuzlav*Hydrographic Ship
*Cheleken*Hydrographic Ship
*Stvor*Hydrographic Ship


*47th Hydrographic Area
GS-86*Hydrographic Ship
*BGK-22*Large Hydrographic Boat
*BGK-889*Large Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-352*Small Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-675*Small Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-1002*Small Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-1099*Small Hydrographic Boat
*RK-214*Harbor Boat


*58th Auxiliary Ship Group (Feodosia)
Koyda*Seagoing Medium Tanker
*OS-114*Research Ship
*OS-138*Research Ship
*SR-344*Degaussing Ship
*SR-59*Degaussing Ship
*KIL-25*Crane Ship
*MB-31*Seagoing Tug
*VM-911 *Diving Tender
*TL-278*Torpedo Retriever
*RB-44*Harbor Tug
*RB-237*Harbor Tug
*BGK-774*Large Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-620*Small Hydrographic Boat
*RK-253 *Harbor Boat
*RK-267*Harbor Boat
*RK-1677*Harbor Boat
*PK-79050*Floating Crane
*UTS-150*Training Station
*SKhZ-20*Floating Warehouse
*PMR-71Non-self-propelled Floating Workshop
MUS-491*Oil/debris skimmer
*MUS-820*Oil/debris skimmer
*BNN-667085*Non-Self-Propelled Tank Barge
*SM-178*Target Ship
*SM-294*Target Ship


*183th Rescue Ship Division (Novorossiysk*)
*SB-4*Rescue Tug
*VM-66*Diving Tender
*VM-86*Diving Tender
*VM-108*Diving Tender
*VM-159*Diving Tender
*Orion*Rescue Tug
*PZhK-58* Firefighting Boat


*61th Auxiliary Ship Group (Novorossiysk)
KSV-67 *Communication Boat
*VTN-96*Seagoing Small Tanker
*SKhZ-18*Floating Warehouse
*PSK-1321*Passenger Boat
*RB-18*Harbor Tug
*RB-43*Harbor Tug
*RB-193*Harbor Tug
*RB-199*Harbor Tug
*RB-209*Harbor Tug
*RB-389*Harbor Tug
*RK-955*Harbor Boat
*RK-1745*Harbor Boat
*MUS-760*Oil/debris skimmer


*55th Independent Hydrographic Vessel Division (Novorossiysk)
GS-103*Hydrographic Ship
*GS-402*Hydrographic Ship
*BGK-875*Large Hydrographic Boat
*BGK-890*Large Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-500*Small Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-614*Small Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-634*Small Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-1792*Small Hydrographic Boat
*MGK-1914*Small Hydrographic Boat


*Temryuk Auxiliary Ship Group
Seliger*Research Ship
*PKZ-205*Floating Barracks
*RB-45*Harbor Tug
*SKhZ-18*Floating Warehouse
*1 floating crane
1 harbor boat*


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## LordTyrannus

Thats a hell of a huge list.


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## general_yermolov_stalin

> You got one daughter of Circassian king. We got countless daughters of Russian kings, princes and noblemen to tone our lust but that didn't stop us raiding the land of rus for centuries. That explains why Russian girls are know for promisicity while muslims like Circassians not. It is known in every country and you know who teached your women this trade


Well, lets see the facts.And it was the other way around

Alexander's grandson Yury of Moscow married a sister of Uzbeg Khan; however, they had no progeny. On the other hand, petty Mongol princelings of Genghisid stock sometimes settled in Russia. For instance, Berke's nephew adopted the Christian name Peter and founded St. Peter's Monastery in Rostov, where his descendants were long prominent as boyars.

marriage of St. Fyodor the Black, later proclaimed a patron saint of Yaroslavl, to a daughter of the Mongol khan Mengu-Timur.[3] Fyodor's relations with the khan were idyllic: he spent more time in the Horde (where he was given extensive possessions) than in his capital. Male-line descendants of Fyodor's marriage to the Tatar princess include all the later rulers of Yaroslavl and two dozens princely families (such as the Shakhovskoy, Lvov, or Prozorovsky, among others), which passed Genghis genes to other aristocratic families of Russia.

Prince Gleb of Beloozero, a grandson of Konstantin of Russia, was another Rurikid prince influential at the Mongol court. Gleb married the only daughter of Khan Sartaq. From this marriage descends the House of Belozersk, whose scions include Princes Ukhtomsky and Beloselsky-Belozersky.

Ivan the Terrible,his mother Elena Glinskaya is a descendant of Mongol Mamai Khan.

In the end ,russians married the tengri and muslim women of golden horde and on top of that we married circassian women too as tribute.



> That explains why Russian girls are know for promisicity while muslims like Circassians not. It is known in every country and you know who teached your women this trade



Wrong theory again.Circassian women most sold in ottoman sex slave ,muhajir .




atatwolf said:


> You got one daughter of Circassian king. We got countless daughters of Russian kings, princes and noblemen to tone our lust but that didn't stop us raiding the land of rus for centuries. That explains why Russian girls are know for promisicity while muslims like Circassians not. It is known in every country and you know who teached your women this trade
> 
> 
> You are orcs comapred to Circassians. They are known for their beauty. It might be true that you commited genocide on them but most of them fled to Turkey. Plus there are enough muslims in Russia to take their revenge which is matter of time. Also Circassians abroad will do everything for Russian federation to colapse and help Chechens and the like. You might come up with your stupid theory about krasnodar krai but ho's of Russia don't come out of muslim areas but pure slavic areas. Also from what I have seen those Russian prostitutes they didn't look Circassian and I know how Circassians look like. I also have seen Russians visiting Turkey, they were pure slavic, they visit with girl group and sleep around. I had one from a place in west Russia but I forget the name of the city. She was easy as f. Hell I even had Russian female class mate. She was from Moscow. Pure slavic and she slept with everybody  Once in a while during going out she would disappear with different guy





> I also have seen Russians visiting Turkey, they were pure slavic, they visit with girl group and sleep around. I had one from a place in west Russia but I forget the name of the city. She was easy as f. Hell I even had Russian female class mate. She was from Moscow. Pure slavic and she slept with everybody  Once in a while during going out she would disappear with different guy



Sounds like from american pie movies myths .But then ,a lot of russian have circassian blood after all cossacks raped and married a lot of circassian so maybe alot of circassian blood in them afterall lenin mass murdered and expelled a lot of cossacks from krasnodar krai to industrial moscow and siberia during decossackisation ,the most horrible time in history for us cossacks.Then also we have theory of soul group and karma.





> Plus there are enough muslims in Russia to take their revenge which is matter of time. Also Circassians abroad will do everything for Russian federation to colapse and help Chechens and the like.



the last time chechens tried it ,we butchered 370,000 of them .more than Ten time russian losses. Already 130,000 chechens have fled Russia for asylum in Europe,USA,Turkey lol. So much for chechen resistance.



> You are orcs comapred to Circassians.



So we have the truth now how you feel . Now I know why you love to bitch and moan about us russians lol. anyways continue with you taqiyya.Islam will give no victory to you.

@Arzamas 16 @victor07 @ptldM3

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## general_yermolov_stalin

The Circassians became major news during the
T
The Circassians became major news during the Caucasian War, in which Russia conquered the North Caucasus, displacing large numbers of Circassians southwards. In 1856 The New York Times published a report entitled "Horrible Traffic in Circassian Women — Infanticide in Turkey", asserting that a consequence of the Russian conquest of the Caucasus was an excess of beautiful Circassian women on the Constantinople slave market, and that this was causing prices of slaves in general to plummet.[13] The story drew on ideas of racial hierarchy, stating that:

the temptation to possess a Circassian girl at such low prices is so great in the minds of the Turks that many who cannot afford to keep several slaves have been sending their blacks to market, in order to make room for a newly-purchased white girl.

.Thanks to us russians .millions of circassians sold at once. Win win for ottoman and Russia.

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## atatwolf

Actions speak louder than words. When you say prostitutes, which country comes in mind? 

You are just jealous of us we kept our women on a leash while your women "hop" all over the world because it is in their instinct since golden horde times.

Circassians I know are most honorable people I met. You could only wish you could be like that. That is why Russian society is crumbling and they will win at the end. That is what karma is....


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## The SC

general_yermolov_stalin said:


> The turks lost almost all their wars to us. The british and german,especially german ,the best soldiers .USA has good airforce .We russian have good artillery.



The turks were part a the Muslim empire, and when it fell apart they were just a weak part without support, the Russians had the whole Greek orthodox nations and a big European coalition with them to beat the Turks. In one instance, if a swift experienced expeditionary Muslim army could have reached Turkey in the right time, the turks would have never been defeated.

The best soldiers is a relative statement, best soldiers technically speaking or best warriors, or best overall soldiers, the Germans and the Turks will be categorized as the best overall fighters, The Americans, Brits and Aussies will fit the technical category best.
The best army is another subject altogether. So who has got the best Navy?

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## general_yermolov_stalin

atatwolf said:


> Actions speak louder than words. When you say prostitutes, which country comes in mind?
> 
> You are just jealous of us we kept our women on a leash while your women "hop" all over the world because it is in their instinct since golden horde times.
> 
> Circassians I know are most honorable people I met. You could only wish you could be like that. That is why Russian society is crumbling and they will win at the end. That is what karma is....



Yep,circassians sold in ottoman sex slaves and circassians raped by us over 500,000 .... russians in turkey only 50,000...lol... the numbers say who was prostituted and who not. ...


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## LordTyrannus

atatwolf said:


> You are just jealous of us we kept our women on a leash..



That´s nothing to be proud of. 

Turkish woman





She was heavily abused by her neanderthal turkish husband.

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## victor07

[quote="500, post: 5495838, member: 31281"Su-35 is nothing but modernized Su-27. Its not even semi stealth like EFT or Rafale.[/quote]

*BullShit*


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## general_yermolov_stalin

The SC said:


> The turks were part a the Muslim empire, and when it fell apart they were just a weak part without support, the Russians had the whole Greek orthodox nations and a big European coalition with them to beat the Turks. In one instance, if a swift experienced expeditionary Muslim army could have reached Turkey in the right time, the turks would have never been defeated.
> 
> The best soldiers is a relative statement, best soldiers technically speaking or best warriors, or best overall soldiers, the Germans and the Turks will be categorized as the best overall fighters, The Americans, Brits and Aussies will fit the technical category best.
> The best army is another subject altogether. So who has got the best Navy?



Wrong again. read the history of russ-turkish wars.Most wars russia fought alone .


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## atatwolf

LordTyrannus said:


> That´s nothing to be proud of.
> 
> Turkish woman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was heavily abused by her neanderthal turkish husband.


Do I have to post pictures how Russian girls get treated by their pimps? 

Cheap, submissive and "flexible" girls

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## LordTyrannus

atatwolf said:


> Do I have to post pictures how Russian girls get treated by their pimps?
> 
> Cheap, submissive and "flexible" girls



You should go to your Mama and apologize for beeing such a horrible inhuman womenhater barbarian.


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## The SC

general_yermolov_stalin said:


> Wrong again. read the history of russ-turkish wars.Most wars russia fought alone .



When did that happen? Read about it and please correct your thinking in context of what I have said.

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