# DHA case: Which country’s army operates housing schemes?, asks CJP



## SunilM

*DHA case: Which country’s army operates housing schemes?, asks CJP*

ISLAMABAD: The Supreme Court on Tuesday declared null and void all agreements between the Defence Housing Authority (DHA) and the Eden Housing Society criticising the army’s role in housing schemes.

*“I ask you, the army and everyone else this: Which country’s army operates housing schemes?” the CJP asked the DHA counsel.*

As the hearing resumed after a brief adjournment earlier in the day, the DHA lawyer defended his client by arguing that it had limited involvement in the project.

“This was a 25,000-kanal project,” he said. “The DHA sold its name in exchange for 30 per cent of the total shares.”

However, the chief justice was not satisfied. He asked the DHA representative: *“Is it the army’s job to develop housing societies?”*

*“The army’s job is to protect the country’s borders; not to participate in commercial activities*,” the judge said. “Had the DHA done this for our martyrs, it would have been [understandable].”

“Does any other country’s army do this?” he asked again.

“The Malaysian army is involved in housing schemes,” the DHA representative offered, to which the judge countered asking: *“And have you modelled the army after just that one country?”*

*“Your name has been [stained] every time you have gone into housing schemes,”* Justice Nisar continued. *“You have bought lands that were disputed and controversial, and in doing so, you have sold your goodwill.*

*“It seems that you people [the DHA] run your business by using widows and martyrs as a shield, and you pocket royalties [in their name],” Justice Nisar added*.

“We should [perhaps] issue an order for DHA to acquire land and allot plots to the affected people [in the Eden Housing Society case] within three months. Whoever is owed whatever should receive their due.”

“A payment should also be made for the land Eden Housing has given,” Justice Ijazul Ahsan added. “A reasonable amount has to be ascertained [for the value of the land].”

The court further indicated that an implementation bench could be formed to resolve the case, and instructed all suspects currently in the National Accountability Bureau’s (NAB) custody in connection with the case to contact the relevant forums.

A three-member bench of the apex court, under Chief Justice of Pakistan Mian Saqib Nisar’s stewardship, issued the orders while hearing the case in Islamabad.

At the outset of the hearing, the chief justice reflected on the complaints brought to him by those affected by the multi-billion housing scheme.

“Some 11,716 people have been affected by the Eden Garden Housing Scheme, and [around] 60,000 people from Lahore have been looted [in its name]. Meanwhile, those behind this scheme have fled after pocketing Rs13 billion.”

“[These] people were defrauded in DHA’s name,” the top judge remarked.

The CJP ordered the DHA authorities to develop the “11,000 plots sold by the latter within five years” in a bid to offer affectees some relief.

Eden Housing Society scam

The affectees of the Eden Housing Society accuse group owner Dr Amjad and others of defrauding more than 10,000 people.

Dr Amjad and his two sons had fled in April 2017 to Canada as the interior ministry did not place them on the Exit Control List (ECL) despite NAB’s request.

In March 2018, NAB had decided to launch an investigation into all housing projects of Eden Developers after its failure to compensate affected people.

In Sep 2018, the Federal Investigation Agency had arrested Dr Murtaza Amjad, the son-in-law of former chief justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, in connection with the scam.

The arrest had come days after the people affected by the housing scam staged a protest demonstration outside Prime Minister Imran Khan’s Lahore residence, demanding the recovery of the millions of rupees allegedly looted from them in the name of the housing scheme.

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/20...ntrys-army-operates-housing-schemes-asks-cjp/

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## Salza

This is iron clad Chief Justice of Pakistan, who even questions militarily on their face, unlike Indian CJ, who chickened out from questioning Modi and Indian air force chief in Rafale scam.

@SunilM

Indian cheap Justice should need to grow some balls and learn something from his Pakistani counterpart.

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## SunilM

Anyways, back on the subject at hand, should the army be building housing societies and use widows and martyr as shields?

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## Salza

SunilM said:


> Anyways, back on the subject at hand, should the army be building housing societies and use widows and martyr as shields?



Why Indian Chief justice is hesitant in questioning your Army/airforce and PM over 'mega' corruption ? something is not right with your judiciary. Seems like your army establishment and RAW has deep state penetration.

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## RangeMaster

Which country's army wins medals over fake encounters? (Hint : Indian Army)

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## GHALIB

Judge is going too far as I can see.



Salza said:


> This is iron clad Chief Justice of Pakistan, who even questions militarily on their face, unlike Indian CJ, who chickened out from questioning Modi and Indian air force chief in Rafale scam.
> 
> @SunilM
> 
> Indian cheap Justice should need to grow some balls and learn something from his Pakistani counterpart.


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## Hareeb

Which country's CJP asks for the house of a builder's son to give him relief in a land grabbing case?
After hearing CJ's remarks about ECL in fake accounts case, I fear CJ will give relief to AZ and Omni group, and if AZ and other accused fly out of country, govt should put CJ in jail.


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## GHALIB

Salza said:


> Why Indian Chief justice is hesitant in questioning your Army/airforce and PM over 'mega' corruption ? something is not right with your judiciary. Seems like your army establishment and RAW has deep state penetration.



Raw and army is doing it's job , not building housing projects to be sold later for profit.

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## SunilM

SunilM said:


> *“It seems that you people [the DHA] run your business by using widows and martyrs as a shield, and you pocket royalties [in their name],” Justice Nisar added*.



This still remains unanswered.


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## Salza

GHALIB said:


> Raw and army is doing it's job , not building housing projects to be sold later for profit.



No apparently they are making lots of money yes lots of cash through Rafael like scam deals


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## Windjammer

Something for the Pakistan obsessed OP to ponder about.


GHALIB said:


> Raw and army is doing it's job , not building housing projects to be sold later for profit.



A Big Lol


*At the corps of land scandals: The nation's biggest landlord the army is being exploited by unscrupulous officers to make money on the sly*
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiaho...rd-army-exploited-unscrupulous-officers-make-

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## GHALIB

Windjammer said:


> Something for the Pakistan obsessed OP to ponder about.
> 
> 
> A Big Lol
> 
> 
> *At the corps of land scandals: The nation's biggest landlord the army is being exploited by unscrupulous officers to make money on the sly*
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiaho...rd-army-exploited-unscrupulous-officers-make-



Ha ha ha .....Few officers tried to get house and were punished for trying to use their position.
Indian army has no power or clout to form special housing wings to systematic land grabbing for personal gains .

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

which country court build dams?

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## Skull and Bones

Let army men make some money.

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## Areesh

SunilM said:


> Anyways, back on the subject at hand, should the army be building housing societies and use widows and martyr as shields?



Sunil is that guy who is more interested than neighbor's son than own daughter pinki

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## Men in Green

At least some one has guts to ask the army. Thats what i have been saying why our army is doing business. Shopping malls , housing schemes and many more. Why they are even allowed.

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## Mrc

This buissness thing has grown above and beyond simple welfare of soldiers... 

It shud be checked and un necessary buissness shud be privatized


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## Umair Nawaz

SunilM said:


> Anyways, back on the subject at hand, should the army be building housing societies and use widows and martyr as shields?


question is, why is yr supreme court to this day had failed to prosecute even a single indian citizen named in panama papers scandal?
Why has yr Supreme Court rejected investigating Rafael deal in which Rajiv Ambani, the second richest man of the world is involved?
Why has yr supreme court stayed away from doing justice on Babri Masjid saga?
Why is that when Supreme Court of Pakistan was announcing the verdict of our ex ruling Sharif family's panama papers corruption case yr supreme court was hearing a insignificant case like Should Hybrid fuel cars be running on the streets of New Dehli or not?

Why does it seems that yr country is fast becoming the heaven of Oligarchy?

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Skull and Bones said:


> Let army men make some money.


they are retired army men.


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## SunilM

Umair Nawaz said:


> question is, why is yr supreme court to this day had failed to prosecute even a single indian citizen named i panama papers scandal?
> Why has yr Supreme Court rejected investigating Rafael deal in which Rajiv Ambani, the second richest man of the world is involved?
> Why has yr supreme court stayed away from doing justice on Babri Masjid saga?
> Why is that when Supreme Court of Pakistan was announcing the verdict of our ex ruling Sharif family's panama papers corruption case yr supreme court was hearing a insignificant case like Should Hybrid fuel cars be running on the streets of New Dehli or not?
> 
> Why does it seems that yr country is fast becoming the heaven of Oligarchy?





SunilM said:


> *“It seems that you people [the DHA] run your business by using widows and martyrs as a shield, and you pocket royalties [in their name],” Justice Nisar added*.



Again, the subject matter of the thread.

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## Umair Nawaz

SunilM said:


> Again, the subject matter of the thread.


right back at u sunil!!! this is a Pakistan defence forum....and our courts r free and powerful today as in any civilized society that should be, but u arnt in that position so its better for u to take inspiration and ask yr judiciary as to why it is scared to prosecute the Oligarchs?

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## Windjammer

GHALIB said:


> Ha ha ha .....Few officers tried to get house and were punished for trying to use their position.
> Indian army has no power or clout to form special housing wings to systematic land grabbing for personal gains .


Ha ha ha....sure just a few, the rest are fit to pass audition for snow white. 

*Indian army engulfed by brand new land scam
-Indian army appears to be locked in never ending land scams*
*
https://shiningindia1.blogspot.com/2013/05/indian-army-engulfed-by-brand-new-land.html*

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## SunilM

Umair Nawaz said:


> right back at u sunil!!! this is a Pakistan defence forum....and our courts r free and powerful today as in any civilized society that should be, but u arnt in that position so its better for u to take inspiration and ask yr judiciary as to why it is scared to prosecute the Oligarchs?



So that you have more info on the subject....

*How Pakistan's Military Monopolised State Resources For Personal Use*
The 2017 edition of Ayesha Siddiqa's 'Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy' discusses how military capital being used for personal benefits is now a permanent feature in Pakistan.

*In 2007, Ayesha Siddiqa touched a raw nerve by publishing Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy*. Then Pakistan President* Pervez Musharraf branded her a traitor, blocked the book launch, threatened to try her for treason and hounded her out of the country. *Her crime was documenting the Pakistani military’s business involvement (“Milbus”) at the cost of the public economy. *The 2017 edition of Military Inc. adds details from the post-Musharraf era and concludes that Milbus has become a permanent feature now. *There is also widespread public and media acceptance of Milbus through the Pakistan military’s successful efforts in brushing up its image as the most trustworthy security guardian even under civilian rule. According to her, “In post 2007 Pakistan, military power is more intensely entrenched”

What is “Milibus”?

Siddiqa defines *Milbus as military capital used for the personal benefit of the military fraternity.* Over a period of time a segment of civilians has also benefited. *These funds are neither recorded nor are they part of the defence budget.* These activities are controlled by retired or serving military officers or under their patronage. Milbus evades regular accountability procedures for “the gratification of military personnel and their cronies”.

*Milbus activities and dividends are justified as quid pro quo for their security work to the state*. They are also justified as welfare measures provided to the armed forces. However *“the rewards are limited to the officer cadre rather than being evenly distributed among the rank and file”.* Even a noted columnist like Khaled Ahmad, who disagrees with much of the Pakistani military’s stance, told her that Pakistan should pay the price “for what we believe in. There is a paradox triggered by our nationalism which allows the military to monopolize the state’s resources.”

The military’s involvement in politics results in Milbus, which in turn generates military interest to remain in power or to control the government. In fact, it perpetuates “the military’s political predatory style”. It serves as a tool for the military to gain “institutional and personal economic influence”, thereby preventing any possibility of pushing them back to the barracks to allow democratic institutions to flourish. The military’s expertise in “violence management” gives a special character and influence to the Milbus economy. This is evident in countries in Latin America, Pakistan, Indonesia or Turkey.

The military’s predatory style makes its capital “concealed, not recorded as part of the budget, and entails *unexplained and questionable transfer of resources from the public to the private sector, especially to individuals or groups of people connected with the armed forces”. *Financial autonomy gives the military a sense of superiority over “incompetent civilians”. Milbus activities are not revealed to the public on “national security” grounds.

External factors also helped Milbus thrive. The US considered the military in many of its client states as “instruments of domestic stability and as partners that were depended upon for achieving US security objectives”. In such countries, the military justifies their encroachment into the economy for guarding national security. The elite in such countries either turns a blind eye to military’s economic interests or tries to join them as “cronies” to derive commercial advantage. International businesses also build corporate partnerships with military-operated business groups, as they dominate the government and can deliver.






Ayesha Siddiqa
_Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy_
Penguin Random House, 2017

Milbus creates monopolies resulting in market distortions by giving military officers and “cronies” unfair advantages in winning contracts and also by permitting a hidden flow of funds from the public to the private sector. “Such redistributive processes encourage both authoritarianism and clientship”. However this rapacious behaviour also creates tensions to the detriment of the dispossessed.

Pakistan case studies

*Although no public data were available, the author tried to do case studies of four welfare foundations: the Fauji Foundation, Army Welfare Trust, Shaheen Foundation and Bahria Foundation.* These are subsidiaries of defence establishments with diverse business activities like private security firms, corporate enterprises like *banks, insurance companies, radio and television channels, fertiliser companies, cement and cereal businesses, bakeries, farms and schools.*

Their activities are not at all transparent.* Out of 96 projects run by these foundations, only nine are listed with the Securities and Exchange Commission of Pakistan. *In 2005, the Pakistan defence ministry rejected their parliament’s call to enquire into the “under-sale” of a sugar mill by Fauji Foundation.

Milbus grew stealthily in Pakistan from 1953-54 onwards, with the military’s creeping influence. But it was only after the third martial law in 1977 that its shape was seen in public. Martial law was first proclaimed in 1958, political instability contributed to its rise. Since 1947, Pakistan was ruled directly by the military for 17 years (1956-62, 1969-71, 1977-85 and 1999-2002). It had an elected government under a military president for 15 years (1962-69, 1985-88, and 2002-07). For ten years (1988-99), it had an elected government with a civilian president but under influence of the troika. For 21 years it was under the supremacy of “non-parliamentary forces” under a formal parliamentary rule (1947-59 & 2007-16). Civilian rule was only for six years (1971-77). This shows why Pakistan has struggled to entrench democratic accountability compared to India, which had unbroken parliamentary rule from 1947, except 21 months of Emergency under a civilian ruler with no role for the military.

The author laments that the civilian elite also had an active role to play in propelling the military to prominence, as they used it as a political force multiplier without realising that “the military would gain wings of its own”. She blames Pakistan’s initial civilian leadership for this, since the military was allowed to initiate a major operation (against India) without civilian control, which propelled the army into significance. She quotes Brigadier (retired) A.R. Siddiqui, a noted Pakistani author, who had said that the use of tribals to take control of Kashmir was the first reason for turning Pakistan into a military-dominated state. A strengthened military under General Zia ul-Haq asserted its supremacy by introducing Article 58(2)(b), which empowered the president to dismiss elected governments.

Post-Musharraf situation

In her 2017 edition, the author adds that the military have now shown clever resilience to the new wave of democratic transformation under foreign pressure. However in that process it has also become stronger. *The army felt that it would be better to allow a civilian government to run the day-to-day affairs, take responsibility for policies made by the generals and face the international community. *In that way, “a military led government was replaced by a military led governance system in which the Army GHQ controlled strategic affairs”. This is also because the military’s “core constituency” of mid-ranking officials was upset with Musharraf’s needless excesses like humiliating Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry. The author quotes Hein Kiessling, who told her a sensational story about how Musharraf’s resignation was forcibly extracted by Army Chief Ashfaq Kayani who kept him “under a brief, forced detention”. She says that this was never reported publicly. (I had reviewed Hein Kiessling’s book on the ISI, _Faith, Unity, Discipline_





Ayesha Siddiqa. Credit: Wikimedia Commons

The army is careful to avoid the kind coup attempt that took place in Turkey due to general discontent among the officer cadre which was brewing under Musharraf’s rule. Musharraf’s pro-India stance on Kashmir was resented by middle-level officers who firmly believe that “opposing India is not just a policy but is the country’s and the military’s raison d’etre”. She quotes Riaz Khokhar that Musharraf’s three-star generals did not support him on his Kashmir policy. The author hints that the lawyers’ agitation was contrived by the military to ease Musharraf out of power.


*By 2016, the Milbus in Pakistan “seemed unstoppable” since the army was perceived as the only credible national institution for guarding national security, fighting terrorism and intervening domestically to be a “counterweight to the corrupt, unaccountable and inefficient image of the political class”. This has boosted the army’s media image. This was also because “all political, religious and ethnic parties have over the years developed a dependency on the military”.*

Now, let discuss this subject in details.

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## Umair Nawaz

SunilM said:


> So that you have more info on the subject....
> 
> *How Pakistan's Military Monopolised State Resources For Personal Use*
> The 2017 edition of Ayesha Siddiqa's 'Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy' discusses how military capital being used for personal benefits is now a permanent feature in Pakistan.
> 
> *In 2007, Ayesha Siddiqa touched a raw nerve by publishing Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy*. Then Pakistan President* Pervez Musharraf branded her a traitor, blocked the book launch, threatened to try her for treason and hounded her out of the country. *Her crime was documenting the Pakistani military’s business involvement (“Milbus”) at the cost of the public economy. *The 2017 edition of Military Inc. adds details from the post-Musharraf era and concludes that Milbus has become a permanent feature now. *There is also widespread public and media acceptance of Milbus through the Pakistan military’s successful efforts in brushing up its image as the most trustworthy security guardian even under civilian rule. According to her, “In post 2007 Pakistan, military power is more intensely entrenched”
> 
> What is “Milibus”?
> 
> Siddiqa defines *Milbus as military capital used for the personal benefit of the military fraternity.* Over a period of time a segment of civilians has also benefited. *These funds are neither recorded nor are they part of the defence budget.* These activities are controlled by retired or serving military officers or under their patronage. Milbus evades regular accountability procedures for “the gratification of military personnel and their cronies”.
> 
> *Milbus activities and dividends are justified as quid pro quo for their security work to the state*. They are also justified as welfare measures provided to the armed forces. However *“the rewards are limited to the officer cadre rather than being evenly distributed among the rank and file”.* Even a noted columnist like Khaled Ahmad, who disagrees with much of the Pakistani military’s stance, told her that Pakistan should pay the price “for what we believe in. There is a paradox triggered by our nationalism which allows the military to monopolize the state’s resources.”
> 
> The military’s involvement in politics results in Milbus, which in turn generates military interest to remain in power or to control the government. In fact, it perpetuates “the military’s political predatory style”. It serves as a tool for the military to gain “institutional and personal economic influence”, thereby preventing any possibility of pushing them back to the barracks to allow democratic institutions to flourish. The military’s expertise in “violence management” gives a special character and influence to the Milbus economy. This is evident in countries in Latin America, Pakistan, Indonesia or Turkey.
> 
> The military’s predatory style makes its capital “concealed, not recorded as part of the budget, and entails *unexplained and questionable transfer of resources from the public to the private sector, especially to individuals or groups of people connected with the armed forces”. *Financial autonomy gives the military a sense of superiority over “incompetent civilians”. Milbus activities are not revealed to the public on “national security” grounds.
> 
> External factors also helped Milbus thrive. The US considered the military in many of its client states as “instruments of domestic stability and as partners that were depended upon for achieving US security objectives”. In such countries, the military justifies their encroachment into the economy for guarding national security. The elite in such countries either turns a blind eye to military’s economic interests or tries to join them as “cronies” to derive commercial advantage. International businesses also build corporate partnerships with military-operated business groups, as they dominate the government and can deliver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ayesha Siddiqa
> _Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy_
> Penguin Random House, 2017
> 
> Milbus creates monopolies resulting in market distortions by giving military officers and “cronies” unfair advantages in winning contracts and also by permitting a hidden flow of funds from the public to the private sector. “Such redistributive processes encourage both authoritarianism and clientship”. However this rapacious behaviour also creates tensions to the detriment of the dispossessed.
> 
> Pakistan case studies
> 
> *Although no public data were available, the author tried to do case studies of four welfare foundations: the Fauji Foundation, Army Welfare Trust, Shaheen Foundation and Bahria Foundation.* These are subsidiaries of defence establishments with diverse business activities like private security firms, corporate enterprises like *banks, insurance companies, radio and television channels, fertiliser companies, cement and cereal businesses, bakeries, farms and schools.*
> 
> Their activities are not at all transparent.* Out of 96 projects run by these foundations, only nine are listed with the Securities and Exchange Commission of Pakistan. *In 2005, the Pakistan defence ministry rejected their parliament’s call to enquire into the “under-sale” of a sugar mill by Fauji Foundation.
> 
> Milbus grew stealthily in Pakistan from 1953-54 onwards, with the military’s creeping influence. But it was only after the third martial law in 1977 that its shape was seen in public. Martial law was first proclaimed in 1958, political instability contributed to its rise. Since 1947, Pakistan was ruled directly by the military for 17 years (1956-62, 1969-71, 1977-85 and 1999-2002). It had an elected government under a military president for 15 years (1962-69, 1985-88, and 2002-07). For ten years (1988-99), it had an elected government with a civilian president but under influence of the troika. For 21 years it was under the supremacy of “non-parliamentary forces” under a formal parliamentary rule (1947-59 & 2007-16). Civilian rule was only for six years (1971-77). This shows why Pakistan has struggled to entrench democratic accountability compared to India, which had unbroken parliamentary rule from 1947, except 21 months of Emergency under a civilian ruler with no role for the military.
> 
> The author laments that the civilian elite also had an active role to play in propelling the military to prominence, as they used it as a political force multiplier without realising that “the military would gain wings of its own”. She blames Pakistan’s initial civilian leadership for this, since the military was allowed to initiate a major operation (against India) without civilian control, which propelled the army into significance. She quotes Brigadier (retired) A.R. Siddiqui, a noted Pakistani author, who had said that the use of tribals to take control of Kashmir was the first reason for turning Pakistan into a military-dominated state. A strengthened military under General Zia ul-Haq asserted its supremacy by introducing Article 58(2)(b), which empowered the president to dismiss elected governments.
> 
> Post-Musharraf situation
> 
> In her 2017 edition, the author adds that the military have now shown clever resilience to the new wave of democratic transformation under foreign pressure. However in that process it has also become stronger. *The army felt that it would be better to allow a civilian government to run the day-to-day affairs, take responsibility for policies made by the generals and face the international community. *In that way, “a military led government was replaced by a military led governance system in which the Army GHQ controlled strategic affairs”. This is also because the military’s “core constituency” of mid-ranking officials was upset with Musharraf’s needless excesses like humiliating Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry. The author quotes Hein Kiessling, who told her a sensational story about how Musharraf’s resignation was forcibly extracted by Army Chief Ashfaq Kayani who kept him “under a brief, forced detention”. She says that this was never reported publicly. (I had reviewed Hein Kiessling’s book on the ISI, _Faith, Unity, Discipline_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ayesha Siddiqa. Credit: Wikimedia Commons
> 
> The army is careful to avoid the kind coup attempt that took place in Turkey due to general discontent among the officer cadre which was brewing under Musharraf’s rule. Musharraf’s pro-India stance on Kashmir was resented by middle-level officers who firmly believe that “opposing India is not just a policy but is the country’s and the military’s raison d’etre”. She quotes Riaz Khokhar that Musharraf’s three-star generals did not support him on his Kashmir policy. The author hints that the lawyers’ agitation was contrived by the military to ease Musharraf out of power.
> 
> 
> *By 2016, the Milbus in Pakistan “seemed unstoppable” since the army was perceived as the only credible national institution for guarding national security, fighting terrorism and intervening domestically to be a “counterweight to the corrupt, unaccountable and inefficient image of the political class”. This has boosted the army’s media image. This was also because “all political, religious and ethnic parties have over the years developed a dependency on the military”.*
> 
> Now, let discuss this subject in details.


oh u dont have to tell us mister we already know, but good thing is that we are relaxed about it, because we already know, we have an independent judiciary in place, who does look into all matters relating to misuse of public rights, and ensures our taxes go where they should be....But then the question is are u in any position to point out such things in here, infront of us? given that yr own judiciary is far toothless against yr powerful oligarchs be it Rajiv Ambani's rafael scandal, Panama Papers corruption prosecution or even giving basic justice to helpless minorities like in Babri Masjid saga?

Wont that be very good for yrself and for the future of yr children if u use all this stamina and energy to secure their and yr future by making yr country a better and more equal state to live where yr tax money is secured and is used for yr upliftment rather then in the pockets of Oligarchs like the world's second riches man Rajiv Ambani and countless people like him named in various scandals in the past in your country like Panama Papers?


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## Windjammer

*Originally proposed as a housing scheme for widows of Kargil martyrs, it later came to light that politicians, bureaucrats and senior defence officers including three former army and navy chiefs had got flats allotted to them by misusing their official positions.*

_*https://www.indiatoday.in/india/nor...-defence-ministry-since-2007-97186-2012-03-26*_

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## Salza

Lmao this loser now has to quote ayesha Siddique when he has been bitch slapped about Indian army truth .. Tsk Tsk Tsk

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## kris

Salza said:


> Why Indian Chief justice is hesitant in questioning your Army/airforce and PM over 'mega' corruption ? something is not right with your judiciary. Seems like your army establishment and RAW has deep state penetration.


Good question 
open another thread for Knowing the reason


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## SunilM

kris said:


> Good question
> open another thread for Knowing the reason



Exactly. Now the important question is, this CJ is retiring on the 18th, and after making some noises willpass away in history. But who will give justice to those affected by the malpractices of the DHA?


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## Kompromat

Isn't dha run by pension fund?


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## Hellfire

The issue is neither new or something in which the Court can do much. Earlier too, such an observation has been raised.

I quote:

_*In Rawalpindi, for instance, provincial government functionaries did try to object to the grant of land on which the DHA is built. They argued that it was marked for a dam, but were unable to mount any serious challenge to the army’s bid to obtain the land for its property developer.*_

source: *https://www.dawn.com/news/1204764*


Probably he was reacting to the list of commercial ventures as undermentioned:

https://www.dawn.com/news/1272211
*
*
My query, are the entities taxed at the standard rates of Corporate Taxes or are they given rebates under 'Foundation' tag?


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## Salza

kris said:


> Good question
> open another thread for Knowing the reason



No we will discuss that here since topic starter needs to look into his own house first before pointing others.


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## Hellfire

Horus said:


> Isn't dha run by pension fund?



Isn't return on investment from corpus of the Insurance for Armed Forces Personnel included?

That would make a good financial sense and a formidable corpus to ensure subsidized housing for personnel at minimal profit and no loss basis and free for the kin of the martyr!

We have the same being in form of AGIF and AWHO & AFNHB


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## Salza

Why are Indian courts silent on this massive Rafael scam when French politicians themselves took Modi name in the name with reliance?


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## AfrazulMandal

Horus said:


> Isn't dha run by pension fund?


You should know. You were in the Air Force.


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## Kompromat

I like the CJP but if DHA/FJF wasn't there the state would have to pay billions every year in veteran welfare. 




hellfire said:


> Isn't return on investment from corpus of the Insurance for Armed Forces Personnel included?
> 
> That would make a good financial sense and a formidable corpus to ensure subsidized housing for personnel at minimal profit and no loss basis and free for the kin of the martyr!
> 
> We have the same being in form of AGIF and AWHO & AFNHB

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## American Pakistani

Well, is there any law or does constitution ban Army to involve in commercial ventures? If no then CJP question is nonsense. Why do we have to do what other countries does? Army is the only corruption free institution and performance always exceed expectations. Plus due to assholic politicians Army has to get involved in ventures to generate money in order to keep up with external and internal threats.

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## Hellfire

Horus said:


> I like the CJP but if DHA/FJF wasn't there the state would have to pay billions every year in veteran welfare.



Oh, I totally agree about the need for a nodal agency for housing. A service personnel spends half the life away in remote locations and hardly has time to find a dwelling, and what he finds, sometimes has issues of unscrupulous people harassing his family.

I was trying to understand how do you finance the projects. We have AGIF which is the contributory insurance scheme provided centrally for the Armed Forces Personnel. A pretty good deal. That has a corpus from which, we have funds for looking after martyrs and rehabilitation financing. Also, some fund is utilized to finance the activities of our own AWHO & AFNHB (something akin to your DHA) which operates on the minimal profit no loss basis for ex-servicemen and of course for widows and martyrs as per policy, allocation of the Dwelling unit

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## kris

Salza said:


> No we will discuss that here since topic starter needs to look into his own house first before pointing others.


What does it has to do with the topic. Is Pakistan judiciary and civil systems work on comparison to others? Don't you have any order?


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## airmarshal

RangeMaster said:


> Which country's army wins medals over fake encounters? (Hint : Indian Army)



Which country's army never do a surgical strike but keeps claiming it did a surgical strike!!? 

If Pakistan Army did not develop housing for its officers, active and retired, they would have been like other Pakistanis without decent housing to think of. 

Army develops its housing authorities on lands procured from government. It then develops the land with better facilities and plans. Also, if buying and selling of property in army built housing, there is ZERO corruption. So people who properties or land in army housing estates prefer to buy it there. Hence the areas developed by army are always the premium addresses in every city.

Lets says you buy a plot in Karachi Development Authority scheme. You would not know how many times that plot has been sold. So you might end in legal battle and never build your home. This is will never happen Defense Housing Authority. You buy the plot or property and you are the sole owner.

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## GHALIB

SunilM said:


> So that you have more info on the subject....
> 
> *How Pakistan's Military Monopolised State Resources For Personal Use*
> The 2017 edition of Ayesha Siddiqa's 'Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy' discusses how military capital being used for personal benefits is now a permanent feature in Pakistan.
> 
> *In 2007, Ayesha Siddiqa touched a raw nerve by publishing Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy*. Then Pakistan President* Pervez Musharraf branded her a traitor, blocked the book launch, threatened to try her for treason and hounded her out of the country. *Her crime was documenting the Pakistani military’s business involvement (“Milbus”) at the cost of the public economy. *The 2017 edition of Military Inc. adds details from the post-Musharraf era and concludes that Milbus has become a permanent feature now. *There is also widespread public and media acceptance of Milbus through the Pakistan military’s successful efforts in brushing up its image as the most trustworthy security guardian even under civilian rule. According to her, “In post 2007 Pakistan, military power is more intensely entrenched”
> 
> What is “Milibus”?
> 
> Siddiqa defines *Milbus as military capital used for the personal benefit of the military fraternity.* Over a period of time a segment of civilians has also benefited. *These funds are neither recorded nor are they part of the defence budget.* These activities are controlled by retired or serving military officers or under their patronage. Milbus evades regular accountability procedures for “the gratification of military personnel and their cronies”.
> 
> *Milbus activities and dividends are justified as quid pro quo for their security work to the state*. They are also justified as welfare measures provided to the armed forces. However *“the rewards are limited to the officer cadre rather than being evenly distributed among the rank and file”.* Even a noted columnist like Khaled Ahmad, who disagrees with much of the Pakistani military’s stance, told her that Pakistan should pay the price “for what we believe in. There is a paradox triggered by our nationalism which allows the military to monopolize the state’s resources.”
> 
> The military’s involvement in politics results in Milbus, which in turn generates military interest to remain in power or to control the government. In fact, it perpetuates “the military’s political predatory style”. It serves as a tool for the military to gain “institutional and personal economic influence”, thereby preventing any possibility of pushing them back to the barracks to allow democratic institutions to flourish. The military’s expertise in “violence management” gives a special character and influence to the Milbus economy. This is evident in countries in Latin America, Pakistan, Indonesia or Turkey.
> 
> The military’s predatory style makes its capital “concealed, not recorded as part of the budget, and entails *unexplained and questionable transfer of resources from the public to the private sector, especially to individuals or groups of people connected with the armed forces”. *Financial autonomy gives the military a sense of superiority over “incompetent civilians”. Milbus activities are not revealed to the public on “national security” grounds.
> 
> External factors also helped Milbus thrive. The US considered the military in many of its client states as “instruments of domestic stability and as partners that were depended upon for achieving US security objectives”. In such countries, the military justifies their encroachment into the economy for guarding national security. The elite in such countries either turns a blind eye to military’s economic interests or tries to join them as “cronies” to derive commercial advantage. International businesses also build corporate partnerships with military-operated business groups, as they dominate the government and can deliver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ayesha Siddiqa
> _Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy_
> Penguin Random House, 2017
> 
> Milbus creates monopolies resulting in market distortions by giving military officers and “cronies” unfair advantages in winning contracts and also by permitting a hidden flow of funds from the public to the private sector. “Such redistributive processes encourage both authoritarianism and clientship”. However this rapacious behaviour also creates tensions to the detriment of the dispossessed.
> 
> Pakistan case studies
> 
> *Although no public data were available, the author tried to do case studies of four welfare foundations: the Fauji Foundation, Army Welfare Trust, Shaheen Foundation and Bahria Foundation.* These are subsidiaries of defence establishments with diverse business activities like private security firms, corporate enterprises like *banks, insurance companies, radio and television channels, fertiliser companies, cement and cereal businesses, bakeries, farms and schools.*
> 
> Their activities are not at all transparent.* Out of 96 projects run by these foundations, only nine are listed with the Securities and Exchange Commission of Pakistan. *In 2005, the Pakistan defence ministry rejected their parliament’s call to enquire into the “under-sale” of a sugar mill by Fauji Foundation.
> 
> Milbus grew stealthily in Pakistan from 1953-54 onwards, with the military’s creeping influence. But it was only after the third martial law in 1977 that its shape was seen in public. Martial law was first proclaimed in 1958, political instability contributed to its rise. Since 1947, Pakistan was ruled directly by the military for 17 years (1956-62, 1969-71, 1977-85 and 1999-2002). It had an elected government under a military president for 15 years (1962-69, 1985-88, and 2002-07). For ten years (1988-99), it had an elected government with a civilian president but under influence of the troika. For 21 years it was under the supremacy of “non-parliamentary forces” under a formal parliamentary rule (1947-59 & 2007-16). Civilian rule was only for six years (1971-77). This shows why Pakistan has struggled to entrench democratic accountability compared to India, which had unbroken parliamentary rule from 1947, except 21 months of Emergency under a civilian ruler with no role for the military.
> 
> The author laments that the civilian elite also had an active role to play in propelling the military to prominence, as they used it as a political force multiplier without realising that “the military would gain wings of its own”. She blames Pakistan’s initial civilian leadership for this, since the military was allowed to initiate a major operation (against India) without civilian control, which propelled the army into significance. She quotes Brigadier (retired) A.R. Siddiqui, a noted Pakistani author, who had said that the use of tribals to take control of Kashmir was the first reason for turning Pakistan into a military-dominated state. A strengthened military under General Zia ul-Haq asserted its supremacy by introducing Article 58(2)(b), which empowered the president to dismiss elected governments.
> 
> Post-Musharraf situation
> 
> In her 2017 edition, the author adds that the military have now shown clever resilience to the new wave of democratic transformation under foreign pressure. However in that process it has also become stronger. *The army felt that it would be better to allow a civilian government to run the day-to-day affairs, take responsibility for policies made by the generals and face the international community. *In that way, “a military led government was replaced by a military led governance system in which the Army GHQ controlled strategic affairs”. This is also because the military’s “core constituency” of mid-ranking officials was upset with Musharraf’s needless excesses like humiliating Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry. The author quotes Hein Kiessling, who told her a sensational story about how Musharraf’s resignation was forcibly extracted by Army Chief Ashfaq Kayani who kept him “under a brief, forced detention”. She says that this was never reported publicly. (I had reviewed Hein Kiessling’s book on the ISI, _Faith, Unity, Discipline_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ayesha Siddiqa. Credit: Wikimedia Commons
> 
> The army is careful to avoid the kind coup attempt that took place in Turkey due to general discontent among the officer cadre which was brewing under Musharraf’s rule. Musharraf’s pro-India stance on Kashmir was resented by middle-level officers who firmly believe that “opposing India is not just a policy but is the country’s and the military’s raison d’etre”. She quotes Riaz Khokhar that Musharraf’s three-star generals did not support him on his Kashmir policy. The author hints that the lawyers’ agitation was contrived by the military to ease Musharraf out of power.
> 
> 
> *By 2016, the Milbus in Pakistan “seemed unstoppable” since the army was perceived as the only credible national institution for guarding national security, fighting terrorism and intervening domestically to be a “counterweight to the corrupt, unaccountable and inefficient image of the political class”. This has boosted the army’s media image. This was also because “all political, religious and ethnic parties have over the years developed a dependency on the military”.*
> 
> Now, let discuss this subject in details.



Military incorporated....ha ha ha ...



Salza said:


> No we will discuss that here since topic starter needs to look into his own house first before pointing others.


Good question.


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## VCheng

SunilM said:


> “I ask you, the army and everyone else this: Which country’s army operates housing schemes?”



Q: Which country’s army operates housing schemes?

A: Pakistan's does. And will.

Now let's all move along, nothing to see here, folks.

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## GHALIB

VCheng said:


> Q: Which country’s army operates housing schemes?
> 
> A: Pakistan's does. And will.
> 
> Now let's all move along, nothing to see here, folks.



No choice except move along .


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## Lincoln

GHALIB said:


> Raw and army is doing it's job , not building housing projects to be sold later for profit.



You are in for a huge disappointment. Your Indian Army operates and runs numerous golf courses and clubs, and it's increasing, although denied a stake in land and housing schemes. Look it up. : )



GHALIB said:


> No choice except move along .



Malaysian army also runs housing schemes. So does Sri Lankan Army, so does Bangladesh Army, Indian Army also attempted same. Enjoy.

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## Hellfire

Alternatiiv said:


> You are in for a huge disappointment. Your Indian Army operates and runs numerous golf courses and clubs, and it's increasing, although denied a stake in land and housing schemes. Look it up



Factually incorrect claims by you.

1. Golf courses and Clubs are on defence land held under DEO. The Golf courses remain on land earmarked for training and training is held there, irrespective of whatever be the state of maintenance. Even Delhi's Army Golf Course, for example, is training land of Rajputana Rifles Regimental Center. 

2. Clubs include civilian clubs where due to merging of civil population in adjoining areas of Cantonment, civillians pre-dominate by taking Defence Land on lease and some memberships are extended to Defence Personnel who are 'Mess Members' eg Secunderabad Club in Secunderabad Cantonment.

3. Land is being given by Defence Forces for infrastructure building, and not curtailing it, by taking it over. 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...efence-land-proposed/articleshow/57786104.cms

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...part-by-srdp-flyover/articleshow/59839251.cms


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## Tps43

VCheng said:


> Q: Which country’s army operates housing schemes?
> 
> A: Pakistan's does. And will.
> 
> Now let's all move along, nothing to see here, folks.


Malaysia as well

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## VCheng

GHALIB said:


> No choice except move along .



Wise man. Let us all move along and let the real real estate business in peace.



Tps43 said:


> Malaysia as well



Why don't we let the Malaysian CJ worry about that? 

==========================================

This judicial approach by seeking examples from elsewhere, whether relevant or not, is not exactly on solid legal grounds, but surely the Honorable CJ does not let such trivial matters worry him at all. After all, he is the self-appointed "guardian of the people" these days, legal justification (or its lack thereof) notwithstanding.


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## Pakhtoon yum

SunilM said:


> Anyways, back on the subject at hand, should the army be building housing societies and use widows and martyr as shields?


None of your damn business now is it? Stop with this obsession and go see a doctor about this disorder.


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## Tps43

VCheng said:


> Why don't we let the Malaysian CJ worry about that?


I was saying in context of cjsc and ur reply that which army in world runs housing schemes. And answer is Malaysia , india and many more.


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## Cuirassier

Kayani's brother cost my family a whole plot


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## VCheng

Tps43 said:


> I was saying in context of cjsc and ur reply that which army in world runs housing schemes. And answer is Malaysia , india and many more.



The real issue here is not the housing schemes, but the "for profit" nature that was raised by the CJ. I think he should not delve into such matters if he knows what is good for him.


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## Dubious

*Chief justice criticises DHA for 'using' widows, martyrs to pocket royalties*
Haseeb Bhatti
Updated January 01, 2019






Affectees of Eden Housing scam hold a demonstration at Liberty Chowk in Lahore. —Dawn Archives

The Supreme Court on Tuesday* declared null and void all agreements between the Defence Housing Authority (DHA) and the Eden Housing Society, *and ordered the *former to develop the "11,000 plots sold by the latter within five years" *in a bid to offer affectees some relief.

The court further indicated that an *implementation bench could be formed to resolve the case, and instructed all suspects currently in the National Accountability Bureau's (NAB) custody in connection with the case to contact the relevant forums.*

A three-member bench of the apex court, under Chief Justice of Pakistan Mian Saqib Nisar's stewardship, issued the orders while hearing the case in Islamabad.

At the outset of the hearing, the chief justice reflected on the complaints brought to him by those affected by the multi-billion housing scheme.

*"Some 11,716 people have been affected by the Eden Garden Housing Scheme, and [around] 60,000 people from Lahore have been looted [in its name]. Meanwhile, those behind this scheme have fled after pocketing Rs13 billion."*

"[These] people were *defrauded in DHA's name*," the top judge remarked.

When the hearing resumed after a brief adjournment, *the DHA counsel defended his client by arguing that it had limited involvement in the project.*

"This was a *25,000-kanal project*," he said.* "The DHA sold its name in exchange for 30 per cent of the total shares."*

However, the chief justice was not satisfied. He asked the DHA representative:* "Is it the army's job to develop housing societies?"*

"I ask you, the army and everyone else this: Which country's army operates housing schemes?"

"The army's job is to protect the country's borders; not to participate in commercial activities," the judge said. *"Had the DHA done this for our martyrs, it would have been [understandable]."*

"Does any other country's army do this?" he asked again.

"The Malaysian army is involved in housing schemes," the DHA representative offered, to which the judge countered asking: "And have you modeled the army after just that one country?"

"Your name has been [stained] every time you have gone into housing schemes," Justice Nisar continued.* "You have bought lands that were disputed and controversial, and in doing so, you have sold your goodwill.*

"It seems that *you people [the DHA] *run your business by using widows and martyrs as a shield, and you pocket royalties [in their name]," Justice Nisar added.

"We should [perhaps] issue an order for DHA to acquire land and allot plots to the affected people [in the Eden Housing Society case] within three months. Whoever is owed whatever should receive their due."

"A payment should also be made for the land Eden Housing has given," Justice Ijazul Ahsan added. "A reasonable amount has to be ascertained [for the value of the land]."

*Eden Housing Society scam*
*The affectees of the Eden Housing Society accuse group owner Dr Amjad and others of defrauding more than 10,000 people.*

*Dr Amjad and his two sons had fled in April 2017 to Canada as the interior ministry did not place them on the Exit Control List (ECL) despite NAB’s request.*

In March 2018, NAB had decided to launch an investigation *into all housing projects of Eden Developers after its failure to compensate affected people.*

In Sep 2018, *the Federal Investigation Agency had arrested Dr Murtaza Amjad, the son-in-law of former chief justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, in connection with the scam.*

The arrest had come days after the people affected by the housing scam *staged a protest demonstration outside Prime Minister Imran Khan’s Lahore residence, demanding the recovery of the millions of rupees allegedly looted from them in the name of the housing scheme*.


https://www.dawn.com/news/1454829/c...-for-using-widows-martyrs-to-pocket-royalties



VCheng said:


> Q: Which country’s army operates housing schemes?


https://awhosena.in/new/
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/apr/25/mod-privatise-military-housing-disaster-guy-hands

Other development projects via army: https://carnegieendowment.org/2014/06/24/military-crowds-out-civilian-business-in-egypt-pub-55996

I think this answers CJP:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/armies-that-create-their-own-lucrative-empires-1.610298

CJP needs to educate himself before appearing to be ignorant of the "regional" tradition!


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> CJP needs to educate himself before appearing to be ignorant of the "regional" tradition!



As I said in the other (closed) thread: 

"Lagta hey mutaziz judge sahib key ghar jaaney kaa time qareeb aa raha hey."



Dubious said:


> https://www.irishtimes.com/news/armies-that-create-their-own-lucrative-empires-1.610298



Did you read what your link actually says?


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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Did you read what your link actually says?


Yes I did. We already know Pakistani army does so...The question was which other army...That link shows you some OTHER armies..And kind of shows a regional culture!

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Yes I did. We already know Pakistani army does so...The question was which other army...That link shows you some OTHER armies..And kind of shows a regional culture!



Original reply deleted. Sorry, not my problem to get involved in at all.


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## AMMT

Appreciate CJP efforts. We should also go to back Zia era and investigate. His scums looted most of the sindh lands too. 

Hoping army come out clean from this mess of DHA.


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