# The Second Indo-Chinese War (2013-2015)



## HongWu

*The Second Indo-Chinese War (2013-2015)*​
*Cause of the War*

The Indian military at the time of the Second Indo-Chinese War (starting sometime between 2013 and 2015) was a powerful force dominating South Asia. It was definitely not 1962, when India went to war against China without due preparation. Since 1962, India fought several border skirmishes with Pakistan and eventually split it in the 1971 war. In 1987, Indian troops even faced off against the PLA at Sumdorong Chu Valley and eventually occupied Southern Tibet and turned it into the state of Arunachal Pradesh.

Since the early 2000&#8217;s, India&#8217;s economic growth has been spectacular, at least on paper. The economic growth created a sizable middle-class and upper-class Indians in the cities while poverty and malnutrition still existed in the countryside. Rampant inflation and other economic dislocation led to discontent from the urban poor. As India grew richer as a whole, Naxalites, Kashmiris and other rebellious factions grew more and more powerful.

As a result, New Delhi was forced to adopt a more and more aggressive foreign policy to keep the country united and distract from domestic problems. New Delhi strategists believed India&#8217;s path is to mimic the British Empire and project power as a conqueror. By 2010, India had outclassed Pakistan economically and regarded Pakistan only as source of terrorism, not a conventional war threat. India&#8217;s most powerful neighbor was China and New Delhi could not feel strategically secure until an independent Tibet is created as a buffer zone. This motivation was strengthened by India&#8217;s desire for redemption for its 1962 defeat and deep-rooted colonial racism against China. India also needed Tibet's water resources because India's rapidly increasing population had outgrown its territory so expansion was required.

Prior to 2000, India was shunned by the West and could only buy second-class, faulty weapons from Russia. After 2000, India started to acquire first-class weapons from Russia like the T-90, Su-30MKI and from Israel like the Phalcon AWACS and Green Pine radar. By 2010, even the US was offering India first-class weapons like the new M777 light howitzer, C-17, C-130 transport and Apache combat helicopter. Between 1995 and 2010, the India military had gone from a large but low quality Soviet-armed force to a more professional force with an eclectic mix of first-class weaponry from both East and West.

Strategic competition between US and China for primacy in East Asia was the reason why arming India became US policy. The US wanted to enlist India to help contain China. However, the US also faced the problem that it needed Pakistan too. This problem dogged the US until it finally reached a solution in 2010 -- it would sell weapons to India to use against China in the Himalayan border regions, but it would discourage India from using them against Pakistan.

The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful to handle and eventually Indian Navy might even start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean. The US also does not want to see India continue to improve its nuclear and missile technology so that one day it can build ICBM that can reach New York. But selling artillery, helicopters, transports and fighter jets (like Super Hornet and F-16E/F offered for MMRCA competition) to fight China in a Himalayan war is okay.

Indo-Chinese relations plummeted in 2009 when PM Singh first decided to side with US to contain China and eventually carve out an independent Tibet. Since then, relations have been hostile, cold and confrontational. Sometime between 2013 and 2015, the newest US weapons were delivered to the Indian military. Not long after, the war began.

*Deployment of Forces*

Since the late 2000&#8217;s, India has been raising and deploying more and more elite mountain divisions toward both the Eastern Sector and Western Sector of the disputed boundary with China. India has been supplying them with airstrips in the forward areas like Tawang and Ladakh. Indian doctrine is to strike deep into Tibet with air-launched Brahmos, cut off Chinese defenders from supplies and overrun them. Meanwhile, India will encourage ethnic Tibetans to rebel against Beijing and sabotage PLA supplies.

By the start of the war, China had largely completed its infrastructure construction in Tibet. It has a railroad from Qinghai to Tibet and another one from Chengdu to Lhasa. China built civilian airports and military air bases in Tibet close to the Indian border. Highways tunneled through mountains provide access to the disputed Eastern Sector. Meanwhile, China opened a railroad along the Karakorum Highway through Pakistan-administered Kashmir linking Kashgar, Xinjiang with Islamabad and opened a railroad from Tibet to Kathmandu.

*Major Chinese Weapons in the Theater*

PLZ-04 artillery






Z-10A combat helicopter





HQ-9 SAM





CJ-10 cruise missile





J-10B air superiority fighter





J-11BS strike fighter





KJ-2000 AWACS





Y-8 EW aircraft





*Phase I: The Indian Offensive*

Ground forces of the two countries had already been maneuvering and watching each other when the air war began. So, China was prepared when India began its attack on the Qinghai-Tibet railway and the Chengdu-Lhasa railway. The KJ-2000 spotted the incoming squadrons of MKI and MMRCA soon after taking off from forward bases.

MKI was at a serious disadvantage to J-11BS. MKI had late-80&#8217;s Soviet avionics compared to J-11BS&#8217;s modern suite. MKI was a heavy Russian-manufactured beast while J-11BS was much lighter because of China&#8217;s composite materials technology. Also, India could not maintain foreign equipment very well or repair because spare parts usually came from Russia. Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality. As a result, some of the force could not fly and defects affected the entire MKI force. Chinese AA missiles such as PL-10 were also a generation ahead of the R-73 and R-73 on the MKI.

The J-10B also had an advantage over India&#8217;s MMCRA. The Eurofighter and Rafale were too expensive for India to buy in any reasonable quantity so India chose another. But none of the other aircraft had an upper hand over the J-10B. The J-10B has stealth features like DSI-intakes and extensive composites. It uses the FWS10A -- a 140 kN engine in the same thrust class as the Russian 117S. J-10B carries an AESA radar, electronic warfare suite and advanced AA missiles. As an air superiority fighter, it is a true equal to the Eurofighter and Rafale.

China had the numbers advantage. Where India buys, China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. For China, a J-10B costs only ~$30 million, far less than what India would pay for a Mig-35! Where India can only induct 25 or 50 aircraft per year, Chinese war factories can crank out more than 100 per year. Just in the theater alone, China had more than 300 4th generation fighters (J-10B and J-11BS) to India&#8217;s 200 or so flyable MKI and MMRCA.

Finally, PLAAF could engage in information-centric warfare. J-10B and J-11BS work together with HQ-9 SAM and KJ-2000 as force-multiplier. Indian weapons from Russia, US, France, UK, Israel, etc. simply cannot work as an integrated system. As a result, the pride of the Indian Air Force was lost in the first few days. However, they did inflict substantial losses on the PLAAF at a ratio of 4:1 (in favor of China). China lost ~1/6 of the fighters it brought to the theater.

The remaining IAF was a handful of poorly maintained, half-flyable Mirage, Mig-29 and Mig-21. Those were quickly destroyed on the ground by J-11BS with precision-guided munitions, as were forward Indian air strips and logistics depots.

*Phase II: Mountain Warfare*

With total control of the skies, China proceeded to attack Indian army bases. The handful of Indian S-300 batteries was destroyed using SEAD tactics and the Y-8 electronic warfare aircraft. It was made easier by the fact that China itself operates these systems. The handful of Green Pine radars was destroyed using terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missiles. The indigenous Akash did not perform very well and could not stop PLAAF from dropping precision-guided munitions over all Indian army bases in forward areas.

Without fighter support or supplies, the elite Indian mountain divisions could only mount a brave but desperate offensive. Z-10A grossly outnumbered the Apache that India purchased. Again, this is because China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. The highly-advanced Z-10A is equivalent to the Eurocopter Tiger but has less firepower and less armor than the heavier Apache.

The Chinese also have the advantage of bringing SPAAG, CIWS and short-range SAM on the highways to defend against Apache and Mi-35. Indian-controlled side had no highways. Chinese infantry carry advanced QW-2 manpads (equivalent to Stinger) against helicopters. LCH never made it to the fight because India could not successfully turn the European-made Dhruv into a combat helicopter.

Indian army had the excellent M777 light howitzer, and this weapon definitely caused damage to PLA. But the Indians faced the disadvantage that they could not "shoot-and-scoot" like the PLZ-04 since M777 was towed and there was no highway. As a result, India's M777 attrited very fast. Yet India could not crank out replacements because it is purchased not indigenously made.

PLA's biggest advantage is that it could bring up far more numbers using railways. When the Indians began their attack, they thought they enjoyed a 3:1 advantage in numbers. But they did not expect that China had quietly brought up rapid-reaction forces from Lanzhou military region, Chengdu military region and Guangzhou military region. In the end, Indian army was outnumbered 5:1!

Despite being outnumbered and outgunned, Indian army fought bravely and inflicted 2:1 (in favor of China) casualties on PLA. The high quality of the Apache and M777 was a factor. Nonetheless, PLA commanded the upper hand. Waves of PLZ-04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death. PLA suffered ~1/10 casualties.

*Phase III: Chinese Counter-Offensive*

Having destroyed the IAF and destroyed the mountain divisions in both Eastern and Western Sectors, China went on the offense to incapacitate India from any future military adventures.

PLA advanced into the &#8220;chicken-neck&#8221; area and overran Indian defenses, cutting off the entire northeast. PLA moved through Myanmar and attacked Indian army positions near the border. India demanded that Bangladesh let Indian army transit through to save the northeast, but Bangladesh refused, knowing that it would gain from an independent Republic of Assam, for example better water rights.

In the Western Sector, PLA attacked the Indian army on Siachen Glacier from both the Chinese side and the Pakistan side in a pincher maneuver. Finally, PLA moved into Jammu and Kashmir to roll back the remaining Indian army. Overjoyed at their liberation, Kashmiris rose up and set fire to GoI buildings in Srinagar. The pro-India faction in Kashmir fled the angry mob.

Within two weeks from the beginning of the war, Kashmir was totally lost and the Indian army in Assam was cut off from the rest of India. Then, China fired hundreds terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missile at power plants and electricity grids. Suddenly, all the major cities in India are without electricity and running water.

As India entered darkness, rebellion and communal violence broke out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launched direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore GoI authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war.

*Important Lessons from the Second Indo-Chinese War*

(1) China should not underestimate India. Yes, its indigenous weapons are not a cause for concern, but the weapons India imported in the 2008-2015 time frame is first-class! Sure they will be lesser in quantity and not as well integrated as indigenous Chinese weapons but they are nothing to scoff at.

(2) It is precisely because India has upgraded from second-class weapons to first-class weapons since 2008 that India has started styling itself a "superpower." India is fundamentally an expansionist state and quite dangerous.

(3) China is already reacting to India's hostile policy. Chinese defense minister recently said "Chinese military must be self-reliant." This is reminding India that its arms purchases will not help it defeat China and assert itself as the Asian superpower.

(4) The Second Indo-Chinese War will be decided by fighter aircraft, artillery and combat helicopters. This is why the US is selling these specific items to India! The weapons offered by the US are comparable to the best that China can field indigenously (J-10B, PLZ-04 and Z-10A), making China's industrial advantage over India not decisive.

Reactions: Like Like:
20


----------



## mautkimaut

HongWu said:


> *Cause of the War*
> 
> The Indian military at the time of the Second Indo-Chinese War (starting sometime between 2013 and 2015) was a powerful force dominating South Asia. It was definitely not 1962, when India went to war against China without due preparation. Since 1962, India fought several border skirmishes with Pakistan and eventually split it in the 1971 war. In 1987, Indian troops even faced off against the PLA at Sumdorong Chu Valley and eventually occupied Southern Tibet and turned it into the state of Arunachal Pradesh.
> 
> Since the early 2000s, Indias economic growth has been spectacular, at least on paper. The economic growth created a sizable middle-class and upper-class Indians in the cities while poverty and malnutrition still existed in the countryside. Rampant inflation and other economic dislocation led to discontent from the urban poor. As India grew richer as a whole, Naxalites, Kashmiris and other rebellious factions grew more and more powerful.
> 
> As a result, New Delhi was forced to adopt a more and more aggressive foreign policy to keep the country united and distract from domestic problems. New Delhi strategists believed Indias path is to mimic the British Empire and project power as a conqueror. By 2010, India had outclassed Pakistan economically and regarded Pakistan only as source of terrorism, not a conventional war threat. Indias most powerful neighbor was China and New Delhi could not feel strategically secure until an independent Tibet is created as a buffer zone. This motivation was strengthened by Indias desire for redemption for its 1962 defeat and deep-rooted colonial racism against China.
> 
> Prior to 2000, India was shunned by the West and could only buy second-tier, faulty weapons from Russia. After 2000, India started to acquire first-tier weapons from Russia like the Su-30MKI and from Israel like the Phalcon AWACS and Green Pine radar. By 2010, even the US was offering India first-tier weapons like the new M777 light howitzer, C-130 transport and Apache combat helicopter. Between 1995 and 2010, the India military had gone from a large but low quality Soviet-armed force to a more professional force with an eclectic mix of modern weaponry from both East and West.
> 
> Strategic competition between US and China for primacy in East Asia was the reason why arming India became US policy. The US wanted to enlist India to help contain China. However, the US also faced the problem that it needed Pakistan too. This problem dogged the US until it finally reached a solution in 2010 -- it would sell weapons to India to use against China in the Himalayan border regions, but it would discourage India from using them against Pakistan.
> 
> The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful and eventually Indian Navy might start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean. The US also does not want to see India continue to improve its nuclear and missile technology so that one day it can build ICBM that can reach New York. But selling artillery, helicopters, transports and fighter jets (like Super Hornet and F-16E/F offered for MMRCA competition) to fight China in a Himalayan war is okay.
> 
> Indo-Chinese relations plummeted in 2009 when India first decided to side with US to contain China and eventually carve out an independent Tibet. Since then, relations have been hostile, cold and confrontational. Sometime between 2013 and 2015, the newest US weapons were delivered to the Indian military. Not long after, the war begins.
> 
> *Deployment of Forces*
> 
> Since the late 2000s, India has been raising and deploying more and more elite mountain divisions toward both the Eastern Sector and Western Sector of the disputed boundary with China. India has been supplying them with airstrips in the forward areas like Tawang and Ladakh. Indian doctrine is to air strike deep into Tibet, cut off Chinese defenders from supplies and overrun them. Meanwhile, India will encourage ethnic Tibetans to rebel against Beijing and sabotage PLA supplies.
> 
> By the start of the war, China had largely completed its infrastructure construction in Tibet. It has a railroad from Qinghai to Tibet and another one from Chengdu to Lhasa. China built civilian airports and military air bases in Tibet close to the Indian border. Highways tunneled through mountains provide access to the disputed Eastern Sector. Meanwhile, China opened a railroad along the Karakorum Highway through Pakistan-administered Kashmir linking Kashgar, Xinjiang with Islamabad and opened a railroad from Tibet to Kathmandu.
> 
> *Major Chinese Weapons in the Theater*
> 
> PLZ 04 artillery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z-10A combat helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HQ-9 SAM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CJ-10 cruise missile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-10B air superiority fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-11BS strike fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KJ-2000 AWACS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-8 EW aircraft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 AM ----------
> 
> *Phase I: The Indian Offensive*
> 
> Ground forces of the two countries had already been maneuvering and watching each other when the air war began. So, China was prepared when India began its attack on the Qinghai-Tibet railway and the Chengdu-Lhasa railway.
> 
> MKI was simply no match for the J-11BS. MKI had 1980s Soviet avionics compared to J-11BSs modern suite. MKI was a heavy Russian-manufactured beast while J-11BS was much lighter because of Chinas composite materials technology. Also, India could not maintain foreign equipment very well or repair because spare parts usually came from Russia. Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality. As a result, some of the force could not fly and defects affected the entire MKI force. Chinese AA missiles were also a generation ahead of the R-73 and R-73 on the MKI.
> 
> The J-10B also dominated Indias MMCRA. The Eurofighter and Rafale were too expensive for India to buy in any reasonable quantity so India chose another. But none of the other aircraft had an advantage against the J-10B. The J-10B has stealth features like DSI-intakes and extensive composites. It uses the FWS10A -- a 140 kN engine in the same thrust class as the Russian 117S. J-10B carries an AESA radar, electronic warfare suite and advanced AA missiles. As an air superiority fighter, it is a true equal to the Eurofighter and Rafale.
> 
> But Chinas biggest advantage was numbers. Where India buys, China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. For China, a J-10B costs only ~$30 million, far less than what India would pay for a Mig-35! Where India can only induct 25 or 50 aircraft per year, Chinese war factories can crank out more than 100 per year. Just in the theater alone, China had more than 300 4th generation fighters (J-10B and J-11BS) to Indias 200 or so flyable MKI and MMRCA.
> 
> In the end, outmatched in both quantity and quality, the pride of the Indian Air Force was lost in the first few days. The remaining IAF is a handful of poorly maintained, half-flyable Mirage, Mig-29 and Mig-21. Those were quickly destroyed on the ground by J-11BS with precision-guided munitions, as were forward Indian air strips and logistics depots.
> 
> *Phase II: Mountain Warfare*
> 
> With total control of the skies, China proceeded to attack Indian army bases. The handful of Indian S-300 batteries was destroyed using SEAD tactics and the Y-8 electronic warfare aircraft. It was made easier by the fact that China itself operates these systems. The handful of Green Pine radars was destroyed using terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missiles. The indigenous Akash did not perform very well and could not stop PLAAF from dropping precision-guided munitions over all Indian army bases in forward areas.
> 
> Without fighter support or supplies, the elite Indian mountain divisions could only mount a brave but desperate offensive. Z-10A grossly outnumbered the Apache that India purchased. Again, this is because China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. The Z-10A is equivalent to the Eurocopter Tiger; it is highly-advanced though less armored compared to the heavier Apache. The Chinese also have the advantage of bringing SPAAG, CIWS and short-range SAM on the highways to defend against Apache and Mi-35. Chinese infantry carry advanced QW-2 manpads (equivalent to Stinger). LCH never made it to the fight because India could not successfully turn the European-made Dhruv into a combat helicopter.
> 
> Waves of PLZ 04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death.
> 
> *Phase III: Chinese Counter-Offensive*
> 
> Having destroyed the IAF and destroyed the mountain divisions in both Eastern and Western Sectors, China went on the offense to incapacitate India from any future military adventures.
> 
> PLA advanced into the chicken-neck area and overran Indian defenses, cutting off the entire northeast. PLA moved through Myanmar and attacked Indian army positions near the border. India demanded that Bangladesh let Indian army transit through to save the northeast, but Bangladesh refused, knowing that it would gain from an independent Republic of Assam.
> 
> In the Western Sector, PLA attacked the Indian army on Siachen Glacier. Finally, PLA moved into Jammu and Kashmir to roll back the remaining Indian army. Overjoyed at their liberation, Kashmiris rise up and set fire to GoI buildings in Srinagar. The pro-India faction in Kashmir flees the angry mob.
> 
> Within two weeks from the beginning of the war, Kashmir was totally lost and the Indian army in Assam was cut off from the rest of India. Then, China fired hundreds terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missile at power plants and electricity grids. Suddenly, all the major cities in India are without electricity and running water.
> 
> Rebellion and communal violence breaks out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launch direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war.




This boomranged to a third world war and China met the same fate of Nazi germany

Reactions: Like Like:
35


----------



## CardSharp

China is no Nazi Germany and you are sure as hell not as strong as the Soviet Union and would it kill you not to quote a page long article for a dimwitted one sentence reply?

Pointless article

Reactions: Like Like:
16


----------



## DesiGuy

just by looking at the thread starter, this thread conclusion is:

it was ALL Indian fault. am i right or wrong ppl?


----------



## PoKeMon

why waiting for 2013 sir hongwu??

You missed megatons of nuclear bombs flying over Indian skies.

Can we expect some sense other than  or 
Happy New Year

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ares

*LOL ...Armchair generals!!*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mautkimaut

CardSharp said:


> China is no Nazi Germany and you are sure as hell not as strong as the Soviet Union.



The entire assumption that India will attack China is ridiculous and do you think that if China will attack India, with more than 2 billion people at stake, World bodies will keep quiet.
China is strong , 
no doubt it but that does not means it will be a cake walk for China .

And why would China risk its trillions for a war ?
India is not an existential threat to China?
Or is it?
You answer this question?I dont think China is wary about India as it is about US
This is nothing but a fan boy imagination.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## PoKeMon

DesiGuy said:


> just by looking at the thread starter, this thread conclusion is:
> 
> it was ALL Indian fault. am i right or wrong ppl?



Nope you are wrong this time.
Sir hongwu is just evaporating India from world map in 2013 without quoting any fault of poor India.


----------



## LongLiveBritian

Hmmmm, what a thread...(sarcasm)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CardSharp

mautkimaut said:


> The entire assumption that India will attack China is ridiculous and do you think that if China will attack India, with more than 2 billion people at stake, World bodies will keep quiet.
> China is strong ,
> no doubt it but that does not means it will be a cake walk for China .
> 
> And why would China risk its trillions for a war ?
> India is not an existential threat to China?
> Or is it?
> You answer this question?I dont think China is wary about India as it is about US
> This is nothing but a fan boy imagination.



Hence why I said pointless article.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## AUz

Well it really surprised me that such foolish thread is coming from an Chinese.I thought it would be any bharti for sure who would start a 'bakwaas' thread as this is.


----------



## Moksha

I think India and China should try to increase people to people contact and cultural exchanges. After reading all these China vs India thread, I feel our ancestors were much better then us in dealing with each other then what we show now. I hope and pray relation between India and China gets better with time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## somebozo

Lots of fanboy stuff but this was the cream!


> The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful and eventually Indian Navy might start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean.



What does conquering Pak Kashmir has to do with challenging US naval primacy in indian ocean?? Is the Indian navy gonna fight in Kashmir by taking their boats into Chenab river??

Other than that the war scenario in Indian chicken neck is very real. India has eyed Bangladesh (then east-PK) since 1947 out of this chicken neck vulnerability and Chinese have added to fears by sketching our graphics details on breaking India through this chicken neck. What this article forgets is the nuclear threshold.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## naumananjum

the points about future in this article are above my level if analytical ability
but
the writer has nicely covered up the arms race situation in the religion
.
if India is not in a psychology to war with china and India will throw a nuke on china in case of war
then why it is spending too much on latest weapons
as if not china then their only enemy is Pakistan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

Moksha said:


> I think India and China should try to increase people to people contact and cultural exchanges. After reading all these China vs India thread, I feel our ancestors were much better then us in dealing with each other then what we show now. I hope and pray relation between India and China gets better with time.



That's what I thought too, but at least in this format I think person to person exchange is actually a bad idea. I've come to feel that our collective personalities are mostly incongruent. Perhaps the reason why our ancestors got along so well was because there was a giant mountain between us and few willing to cross it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## naumananjum

""""The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful and eventually Indian Navy might start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean. """

.
what do u mean by this???

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dalai Lama

Only in China...


----------



## dingyibvs

What an useless thread...another 20 page flame war on the way.


----------



## Insane

CardSharp said:


> That's what I thought too, but at least in this format I think person to person exchange is actually a bad idea. I've come to feel that our collective personalities are mostly incongruent. Perhaps the reason why our ancestors got along so well was because there was a giant mountain between us and few willing to cross it.



In Real life I feel people interact and mingle nicely. The internet is so FAKE. Except a bunch of online defense enthusiasts who represent a tiny portion of population, most people are busy with their daily life and worried about their jobs, kids, vacation and other small things of day-to-day life than some fantasy war.

This Forum completely contradicts my personal experience in which, I get along superbly with Pakistanis and Chinese on a daily basis. That is the reason all this internet attack going on between guys on here is rather amusing to me and Insults about country and people don't really hurt.

BTW you must also have a different experience for real as u live in Canada and would have interacted with Indians. We guys are really as diverse as they come ( Being from one country), but do you feel the people you meet are anything as these online warriors.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## destinyindia

funny thread by the chinese..though useless..
happy new year


----------



## Dalai Lama

Three simple words which are more worthy than the entire article:

Happy New Year!


----------



## Avatar

At least refrain from posting non sense on the first day of the new year.


----------



## naumananjum

yaar recently someone has posted a thread that quality of this forum is decreasing
.and many senior and respectable members are agreed to him
.
i think that major posts in this threads are also not appropriate
like some involves taunts
and stuff like which s not answer to the thread just a personal attack to the thread poster
.
this behavior should be changed among us
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

naumananjum said:


> """"The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful and eventually Indian Navy might start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean. """
> 
> .
> what do u mean by this???


If India takes all of Kashmir, it would strategically cripple Pakistan. Then India would be able to project power all the way to Iran and Central Asia. Basically a British Empire reborn. Naturally it would assert itself in the Indian Ocean. The US would not like that.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## naumananjum

Posts like below may irritate senior and respectable members and are also not appropriate when we talk quality
.
this to be decided by mods that which thread is stupid and to be deleted
.

1.Three simple words which are more worthy than the entire article:
Happy New Year! 

2.What an useless thread...another 20 page flame war on the way.

3.Well it really surprised me that such foolish thread is coming from an Chinese.I thought it would be any bharti for sure who would start a 'bakwaas' thread as this is.

4.funny thread by the chinese..though useless..
happy new year


----------



## destinyindia

sensible threads will be appreciated... what should u discuss when the thread starter is posting nonsense at the beginning itself and it is clear that it is going to invite useless discussions and flames...
enjoy the new year fun.


----------



## below_freezing

please maintain the quality of this forum.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## naumananjum

destinyindia said:


> sensible threads will be appreciated... what should u discuss when the thread starter is posting nonsense at the beginning itself and it is clear that it is going to invite useless discussions and flames...
> enjoy the new year fun.



try to get what i m trying to say
i m talking about quality of this forum 
how can we maintain and improve it


----------



## fallstuff

He is back with a vengeance !!


----------



## CardSharp

Insane said:


> In Real life I feel people interact and mingle nicely. The internet is so FAKE. Except a bunch of online defense enthusiasts who represent a tiny portion of population, most people are busy with their daily life and worried about their jobs, kids, vacation and other small things of day-to-day life than some fantasy war.
> 
> This Forum completely contradicts my personal experience in which, I get along superbly with Pakistanis and Chinese on a daily basis. That is the reason all this internet attack going on between guys on here is rather amusing to me and Insults about country and people don't really hurt.
> 
> BTW you must also have a different experience for real as u live in Canada and would have interacted with Indians. We guys are really as diverse as they come ( Being from one country), but do you feel the people you meet are anything as these online warriors.



I as a rule don't talk politics with people I meet and on that basis I get along fine with Indian people, but as for Indian political views, I can't see this forum as a complete aberration. They may not be representative (too many variables in background) but I feel they are indicative.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## syntax_error

I came ...
I read ...
I slapped myself...for reading it 
Now i will leave....

PS: mods please close the thread...... and since i know a lot of people will come to this thread because of the tittle 
"Happy New year mates"


----------



## gubbi

CardSharp said:


> China is no Nazi Germany and you are sure as hell not as strong as the Soviet Union and would it kill you not to quote a page long article for a dimwitted one sentence reply?
> 
> Pointless article



A pointless article deserves a one sentence reply. Nobody had even imagines that the Third Reich would turn out to be a monster it eventually became. Many European countries, then, followed a policy of appeasement towards Hitler and his ultra-nationalistic Nazi party! And none of the European countries was powerful enough to stop Hitler once his Bliztkrieg started. Neither was Soviet Russia (remember Stalin had just purged his disloyal military officers).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

gubbi said:


> A pointless article deserves a one sentence reply. Nobody had even imagines that the Third Reich would turn out to be a monster it eventually became. Many European countries, then, followed a policy of appeasement towards Hitler and his ultra-nationalistic Nazi party! And none of the European countries was powerful enough to stop Hitler once his Bliztkrieg started. Neither was Soviet Russia (remember Stalin had just purged his disloyal military officers).



No comment.


----------



## GareebNawaz

All i can do is feel pity for the guy who posted this nonsense article.


----------



## CardSharp

Jet Li said:


> this time i hope china wipes the hindu republic of india off the face of the map.



Grab a rifle and be my guest.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Insane

CardSharp said:


> I as a rule don't talk politics with people I meet and on that basis I get along fine with Indian people, but as for Indian political views, I can't see this forum as a complete aberration. They may not be representative (too many variables in background) but I feel they are indicative.



May be you are politically minded or have proper knowledge to talk about it, But many people I see or meet who discuss politics do not have proper grasp of what they are talking about and have strong opinions irrespective of that. And then there are others who are not that interested to discuss politics. Not cause they might get into an ugly scene but just not interested.

And when on politics, social issues, cultural issues are concerned its not easy for many people to agree. Chinese disagree with Chinese, Indian disagree with an Indian and so on. That does not mean either of them are not logical, nice or normal people. People just have different views and opinions. As long as the people understand that and do not impose things on listeners, things should be fine, even in a political discussion. Its another thing that it seldom happens.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GareebNawaz

I dont understand what problem China has with India. Mr. Jet Li thinks China will wipe off India from the map. Please try. The only winner from China India war will be the west.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## abrahams

some one is longing for something.. 

what a crap thingy... cant fine the source though...


----------



## illuminatidinesh

> Well it really surprised me that such foolish thread is coming from an Chinese.I thought it would be any bharti for sure who would start a 'bakwaas' thread as this is.


Hmmm for sure now we know who is "Bakwaas".


----------



## senselesstalk

Well... One cant stop some one from writing an article imagining a war scenario.. it would make sense for writing a novel/book...This article even fails into that category, as before writing that the author provides detailed analysis and takes lot into consideration. This article is written as if a layman speaks without much knowledge about War scenario in a defence article ..and we are wasting time discussing about this funny piece of article ..


----------



## MST

HongWu said:


> If India takes all of Kashmir, it would strategically cripple Pakistan. Then India would be able to project power all the way to Iran and Central Asia. Basically a British Empire reborn. Naturally it would assert itself in the Indian Ocean. The US would not like that.



Unless the soil of Pakistan-administered Kashmir is so fertile that you can grow Nuclear Warheads in it, it will not change anything weather India occupies it or not. Not even Pakistan, who will dust it off and go on with life just like it did in 1971.


----------



## MST

CardSharp said:


> That's what I thought too, but at least in this format I think person to person exchange is actually a bad idea. I've come to feel that our collective personalities are mostly incongruent. Perhaps the reason why our ancestors got along so well was because *there was a giant mountain between us and few willing to cross it.*



That giant mountain is still there. What is missing now in each of us is our willingness to stick to our side of it.


----------



## CardSharp

MST said:


> That giant mountain is still there. What is missing now in each of us is our willingness to stick to our side of it.



The Wu Cheng'en's (The Chinese scholar who transcribed the Journey to the West" or the journey to what is now India) are still out there but it is the ignorance of Indian nationalism that keep us out (China's fault/Backstab backstab backstab etc). When I/we have to explain over and over again why is it that Nehru's idiotic policy towards China didn't work. I sometimes give up hope... 

I just hope that Indian nationalism will forgo lies and focus on an objective form of nationalism (as oxymoronic as that seems).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GareebNawaz

^^ I hated Nehru's incompetence during 1962 war. He is complete fool and his policies were well....at least towards china-fail. Hate Nehru.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Masterchief

Hongwu dear go see a doctor your fantasies are alarmingly increasing.


----------



## CaptainJackSparrow

*On topic:* Bwahahahahahahahhahahah

*Otherwise:* I should grab a rum, eh!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## wangwei11607

HongWu
You are a disgrace to us 
Don't active provocative each other 
Under 18, please don't paranoia


----------



## faithfulguy

This article from HongWu look like something out of Bharat Rakshak forum. Especially the scenarios forum where tons of people create scenario of India destroying China and Pakistan at the same time. This article is just as bias and stupid as the article by the Indian folks there.


----------



## below_freezing

but things will totally be different if india had the invincible F-35!


----------



## shrivatsa

Happy new year to one and all


----------



## Marxist

HongWu said:


> *Cause of the War*
> 
> The Indian military at the time of the Second Indo-Chinese War (starting sometime between 2013 and 2015) was a powerful force dominating South Asia. It was definitely not 1962, when India went to war against China without due preparation. Since 1962, India fought several border skirmishes with Pakistan and eventually split it in the 1971 war. In 1987, Indian troops even faced off against the PLA at Sumdorong Chu Valley and eventually occupied Southern Tibet and turned it into the state of Arunachal Pradesh.
> 
> Since the early 2000s, Indias economic growth has been spectacular, at least on paper. The economic growth created a sizable middle-class and upper-class Indians in the cities while poverty and malnutrition still existed in the countryside. Rampant inflation and other economic dislocation led to discontent from the urban poor. As India grew richer as a whole, Naxalites, Kashmiris and other rebellious factions grew more and more powerful.
> 
> As a result, New Delhi was forced to adopt a more and more aggressive foreign policy to keep the country united and distract from domestic problems. New Delhi strategists believed Indias path is to mimic the British Empire and project power as a conqueror. By 2010, India had outclassed Pakistan economically and regarded Pakistan only as source of terrorism, not a conventional war threat. Indias most powerful neighbor was China and New Delhi could not feel strategically secure until an independent Tibet is created as a buffer zone. This motivation was strengthened by Indias desire for redemption for its 1962 defeat and deep-rooted colonial racism against China.
> 
> Prior to 2000, India was shunned by the West and could only buy second-tier, faulty weapons from Russia. After 2000, India started to acquire first-tier weapons from Russia like the Su-30MKI and from Israel like the Phalcon AWACS and Green Pine radar. By 2010, even the US was offering India first-tier weapons like the new M777 light howitzer, C-130 transport and Apache combat helicopter. Between 1995 and 2010, the India military had gone from a large but low quality Soviet-armed force to a more professional force with an eclectic mix of modern weaponry from both East and West.
> 
> Strategic competition between US and China for primacy in East Asia was the reason why arming India became US policy. The US wanted to enlist India to help contain China. However, the US also faced the problem that it needed Pakistan too. This problem dogged the US until it finally reached a solution in 2010 -- it would sell weapons to India to use against China in the Himalayan border regions, but it would discourage India from using them against Pakistan.
> 
> The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful and eventually Indian Navy might start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean. The US also does not want to see India continue to improve its nuclear and missile technology so that one day it can build ICBM that can reach New York. But selling artillery, helicopters, transports and fighter jets (like Super Hornet and F-16E/F offered for MMRCA competition) to fight China in a Himalayan war is okay.
> 
> Indo-Chinese relations plummeted in 2009 when India first decided to side with US to contain China and eventually carve out an independent Tibet. Since then, relations have been hostile, cold and confrontational. Sometime between 2013 and 2015, the newest US weapons were delivered to the Indian military. Not long after, the war begins.
> 
> *Deployment of Forces*
> 
> Since the late 2000s, India has been raising and deploying more and more elite mountain divisions toward both the Eastern Sector and Western Sector of the disputed boundary with China. India has been supplying them with airstrips in the forward areas like Tawang and Ladakh. Indian doctrine is to air strike deep into Tibet, cut off Chinese defenders from supplies and overrun them. Meanwhile, India will encourage ethnic Tibetans to rebel against Beijing and sabotage PLA supplies.
> 
> By the start of the war, China had largely completed its infrastructure construction in Tibet. It has a railroad from Qinghai to Tibet and another one from Chengdu to Lhasa. China built civilian airports and military air bases in Tibet close to the Indian border. Highways tunneled through mountains provide access to the disputed Eastern Sector. Meanwhile, China opened a railroad along the Karakorum Highway through Pakistan-administered Kashmir linking Kashgar, Xinjiang with Islamabad and opened a railroad from Tibet to Kathmandu.
> 
> *Major Chinese Weapons in the Theater*
> 
> PLZ 04 artillery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z-10A combat helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HQ-9 SAM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CJ-10 cruise missile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-10B air superiority fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-11BS strike fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KJ-2000 AWACS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-8 EW aircraft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 AM ----------
> 
> *Phase I: The Indian Offensive*
> 
> Ground forces of the two countries had already been maneuvering and watching each other when the air war began. So, China was prepared when India began its attack on the Qinghai-Tibet railway and the Chengdu-Lhasa railway.
> 
> MKI was simply no match for the J-11BS. MKI had 1980s Soviet avionics compared to J-11BSs modern suite. MKI was a heavy Russian-manufactured beast while J-11BS was much lighter because of Chinas composite materials technology. *Also, India could not maintain foreign equipment very well or repair because spare parts usually came from Russia. Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality. *As a result, some of the force could not fly and defects affected the entire MKI force. Chinese AA missiles were also a generation ahead of the R-73 and R-73 on the MKI.
> 
> The J-10B also dominated Indias MMCRA. *The Eurofighter and Rafale were too expensive for India to buy in any reasonable quantity so India chose another.* But none of the other aircraft had an advantage against the J-10B. The J-10B has stealth features like DSI-intakes and extensive composites. It uses the FWS10A -- a 140 kN engine in the same thrust class as the Russian 117S. J-10B carries an AESA radar, electronic warfare suite and advanced AA missiles. As an air superiority fighter, it is a true equal to the Eurofighter and Rafale.
> 
> But Chinas biggest advantage was numbers. Where India buys, China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. For China, a J-10B costs only ~$30 million, far less than what India would pay for a Mig-35! Where India can only induct 25 or 50 aircraft per year, Chinese war factories can crank out more than 100 per year. Just in the theater alone, China had more than 300 4th generation fighters (J-10B and J-11BS) to Indias 200 or so flyable MKI and MMRCA.
> 
> In the end, outmatched in both quantity and quality, the pride of the Indian Air Force was lost in the first few days. The remaining IAF is a handful of poorly maintained, half-flyable Mirage, Mig-29 and Mig-21. Those were quickly destroyed on the ground by J-11BS with precision-guided munitions, as were forward Indian air strips and logistics depots.
> 
> *Phase II: Mountain Warfare*
> 
> With total control of the skies, China proceeded to attack Indian army bases. The handful of Indian S-300 batteries was destroyed using SEAD tactics and the Y-8 electronic warfare aircraft. It was made easier by the fact that China itself operates these systems. The handful of Green Pine radars was destroyed using terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missiles. The indigenous Akash did not perform very well and could not stop PLAAF from dropping precision-guided munitions over all Indian army bases in forward areas.
> 
> Without fighter support or supplies, the elite Indian mountain divisions could only mount a brave but desperate offensive. Z-10A grossly outnumbered the Apache that India purchased. Again, this is because China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. The Z-10A is equivalent to the Eurocopter Tiger; it is highly-advanced though less armored compared to the heavier Apache. The Chinese also have the advantage of bringing SPAAG, CIWS and short-range SAM on the highways to defend against Apache and Mi-35. Chinese infantry carry advanced QW-2 manpads (equivalent to Stinger). LCH never made it to the fight because India could not successfully turn the European-made Dhruv into a combat helicopter.
> 
> Waves of PLZ 04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death.
> 
> *Phase III: Chinese Counter-Offensive*
> 
> Having destroyed the IAF and destroyed the mountain divisions in both Eastern and Western Sectors, China went on the offense to incapacitate India from any future military adventures.
> 
> PLA advanced into the chicken-neck area and overran Indian defenses, cutting off the entire northeast. PLA moved through Myanmar and attacked Indian army positions near the border. India demanded that Bangladesh let Indian army transit through to save the northeast, but Bangladesh refused, knowing that it would gain from an independent Republic of Assam.
> 
> In the Western Sector, PLA attacked the Indian army on Siachen Glacier. Finally, PLA moved into Jammu and Kashmir to roll back the remaining Indian army. Overjoyed at their liberation, Kashmiris rise up and set fire to GoI buildings in Srinagar. The pro-India faction in Kashmir flees the angry mob.
> 
> Within two weeks from the beginning of the war, Kashmir was totally lost and the Indian army in Assam was cut off from the rest of India. Then, China fired hundreds terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missile at power plants and electricity grids. Suddenly, all the major cities in India are without electricity and running water.
> 
> Rebellion and communal violence breaks out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launch direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war.



MKI's using old soviet avionics???..it shows ur knowledge on defense subjects,ur article is J-11 *B***S*****

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## my name is arya



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## my name is arya



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## brahmastra

Writer fell from the bed and wakeup.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## my name is arya



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xuxu1457

A stupid thread~~~~~


----------



## angeldemon_007

> What does conquering Pak Kashmir has to do with challenging US naval primacy in indian ocean?? Is the Indian navy gonna fight in Kashmir by taking their boats into Chenab river??


It's really funny....This article is really unrealistic. 
Although you are right about this. But article is also right in the sense that US does not want any more competition as it is already facing problems from China and Russia. Its already clear that India won't be a part of US led NATO or would listen to US because the foreign policy of both countries does not match. So a powerful India won't help US in anyway. If US plans to use India against China, India won't stand up. Thats why India takes every step carefully when it comes to US. Fighting with China won't serve any good to India. 



> Strategic competition between US and China for primacy in East Asia was the reason why arming India became US policy. The US wanted to enlist India to help contain China.


Economic slowdown has forced US to supply some of the weapons which they feel won't effect their relationship with Pak. 
Just look at the articles after any US-India deal in any American newspaper. It just states that this deal generated this many jobs.....



> India&#8217;s most powerful neighbor was China and New Delhi could not feel strategically secure until an independent Tibet is created as a buffer zone.


New Delhi always recognized Tibet as Chinese territory. It is Chinese policy that they don't want to respect any other countries integrity whether its Kashmir or Sikkim or Anurachal. 
If New Delhi does this, then there would be a full scale war. Apart from this Indo-China war will destroy both the countries. Its not 1962 any more. Look at what happened to US in Afganistan.



> This motivation was strengthened by India&#8217;s desire for redemption for its 1962 defeat and deep-rooted colonial racism against China.


I couldn't even understand this sentence. *deep-rooted colonial racism against China ???///*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gabbar

*Time is right to close this stupid thread MODS.*


----------



## Markus

Thread by Hong Wu 

I didn't knew we had astrologers too in this forum!


----------



## MrProudIndian

I only came here to post that world is going to end in 2012!!


----------



## MrProudIndian

one of the most useless articles in my recent memory.


----------



## J - 50

well this seems like a Cake Walk for Chinese ...

In reality ...

supply lines for PLA to Indian Border will be broken when waves of cruise missiles will make a hole in every mountain 
where roads and train rails are laid which can not be repaired with in months , and this will be repeated again and again ...

the same cases will be repeated with India ... so this misadventure will turn to a long drawn conflict ... where at the end it will leave both china and India back in 80s ... 

and this will make Unification of China(so called one china policy of Communist party) a dream ... 

no matter how many western platforms india brings to war..
no matter how much local weapons china brings into war ...

the end result in himalayan ranges will be null ... and the main sufferers will be economic zones of both countries ... 

so better the status quo remains ,,, and these games that are being played between china-pak,srlanka,bd,burma and India cozying up to west ... goes on and on and on.. 

Happy New Year to yo u all..


----------



## kingdurgaking

HongWu said:


> *Cause of the War*
> 
> The Indian military at the time of the Second Indo-Chinese War (starting sometime between 2013 and 2015) was a powerful force dominating South Asia. It was definitely not 1962, when India went to war against China without due preparation. Since 1962, India fought several border skirmishes with Pakistan and eventually split it in the 1971 war. In 1987, Indian troops even faced off against the PLA at Sumdorong Chu Valley and eventually occupied Southern Tibet and turned it into the state of Arunachal Pradesh.
> 
> Since the early 2000s, Indias economic growth has been spectacular, at least on paper. The economic growth created a sizable middle-class and upper-class Indians in the cities while poverty and malnutrition still existed in the countryside. Rampant inflation and other economic dislocation led to discontent from the urban poor. As India grew richer as a whole, Naxalites, Kashmiris and other rebellious factions grew more and more powerful.
> 
> As a result, New Delhi was forced to adopt a more and more aggressive foreign policy to keep the country united and distract from domestic problems. New Delhi strategists believed Indias path is to mimic the British Empire and project power as a conqueror. By 2010, India had outclassed Pakistan economically and regarded Pakistan only as source of terrorism, not a conventional war threat. Indias most powerful neighbor was China and New Delhi could not feel strategically secure until an independent Tibet is created as a buffer zone. This motivation was strengthened by Indias desire for redemption for its 1962 defeat and deep-rooted colonial racism against China.
> 
> Prior to 2000, India was shunned by the West and could only buy second-tier, faulty weapons from Russia. After 2000, India started to acquire first-tier weapons from Russia like the Su-30MKI and from Israel like the Phalcon AWACS and Green Pine radar. By 2010, even the US was offering India first-tier weapons like the new M777 light howitzer, C-130 transport and Apache combat helicopter. Between 1995 and 2010, the India military had gone from a large but low quality Soviet-armed force to a more professional force with an eclectic mix of modern weaponry from both East and West.
> 
> Strategic competition between US and China for primacy in East Asia was the reason why arming India became US policy. The US wanted to enlist India to help contain China. However, the US also faced the problem that it needed Pakistan too. This problem dogged the US until it finally reached a solution in 2010 -- it would sell weapons to India to use against China in the Himalayan border regions, but it would discourage India from using them against Pakistan.
> 
> The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful and eventually Indian Navy might start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean. The US also does not want to see India continue to improve its nuclear and missile technology so that one day it can build ICBM that can reach New York. But selling artillery, helicopters, transports and fighter jets (like Super Hornet and F-16E/F offered for MMRCA competition) to fight China in a Himalayan war is okay.
> 
> Indo-Chinese relations plummeted in 2009 when India first decided to side with US to contain China and eventually carve out an independent Tibet. Since then, relations have been hostile, cold and confrontational. Sometime between 2013 and 2015, the newest US weapons were delivered to the Indian military. Not long after, the war begins.
> 
> *Deployment of Forces*
> 
> Since the late 2000s, India has been raising and deploying more and more elite mountain divisions toward both the Eastern Sector and Western Sector of the disputed boundary with China. India has been supplying them with airstrips in the forward areas like Tawang and Ladakh. Indian doctrine is to air strike deep into Tibet, cut off Chinese defenders from supplies and overrun them. Meanwhile, India will encourage ethnic Tibetans to rebel against Beijing and sabotage PLA supplies.
> 
> By the start of the war, China had largely completed its infrastructure construction in Tibet. It has a railroad from Qinghai to Tibet and another one from Chengdu to Lhasa. China built civilian airports and military air bases in Tibet close to the Indian border. Highways tunneled through mountains provide access to the disputed Eastern Sector. Meanwhile, China opened a railroad along the Karakorum Highway through Pakistan-administered Kashmir linking Kashgar, Xinjiang with Islamabad and opened a railroad from Tibet to Kathmandu.
> 
> *Major Chinese Weapons in the Theater*
> 
> PLZ 04 artillery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z-10A combat helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HQ-9 SAM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CJ-10 cruise missile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-10B air superiority fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-11BS strike fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KJ-2000 AWACS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-8 EW aircraft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 AM ----------
> 
> *Phase I: The Indian Offensive*
> 
> Ground forces of the two countries had already been maneuvering and watching each other when the air war began. So, China was prepared when India began its attack on the Qinghai-Tibet railway and the Chengdu-Lhasa railway.
> 
> MKI was simply no match for the J-11BS. MKI had 1980s Soviet avionics compared to J-11BSs modern suite. MKI was a heavy Russian-manufactured beast while J-11BS was much lighter because of Chinas composite materials technology. Also, India could not maintain foreign equipment very well or repair because spare parts usually came from Russia. Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality. As a result, some of the force could not fly and defects affected the entire MKI force. Chinese AA missiles were also a generation ahead of the R-73 and R-73 on the MKI.
> 
> The J-10B also dominated Indias MMCRA. The Eurofighter and Rafale were too expensive for India to buy in any reasonable quantity so India chose another. But none of the other aircraft had an advantage against the J-10B. The J-10B has stealth features like DSI-intakes and extensive composites. It uses the FWS10A -- a 140 kN engine in the same thrust class as the Russian 117S. J-10B carries an AESA radar, electronic warfare suite and advanced AA missiles. As an air superiority fighter, it is a true equal to the Eurofighter and Rafale.
> 
> But Chinas biggest advantage was numbers. Where India buys, China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. For China, a J-10B costs only ~$30 million, far less than what India would pay for a Mig-35! Where India can only induct 25 or 50 aircraft per year, Chinese war factories can crank out more than 100 per year. Just in the theater alone, China had more than 300 4th generation fighters (J-10B and J-11BS) to Indias 200 or so flyable MKI and MMRCA.
> 
> In the end, outmatched in both quantity and quality, the pride of the Indian Air Force was lost in the first few days. The remaining IAF is a handful of poorly maintained, half-flyable Mirage, Mig-29 and Mig-21. Those were quickly destroyed on the ground by J-11BS with precision-guided munitions, as were forward Indian air strips and logistics depots.
> 
> *Phase II: Mountain Warfare*
> 
> With total control of the skies, China proceeded to attack Indian army bases. The handful of Indian S-300 batteries was destroyed using SEAD tactics and the Y-8 electronic warfare aircraft. It was made easier by the fact that China itself operates these systems. The handful of Green Pine radars was destroyed using terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missiles. The indigenous Akash did not perform very well and could not stop PLAAF from dropping precision-guided munitions over all Indian army bases in forward areas.
> 
> Without fighter support or supplies, the elite Indian mountain divisions could only mount a brave but desperate offensive. Z-10A grossly outnumbered the Apache that India purchased. Again, this is because China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. The Z-10A is equivalent to the Eurocopter Tiger; it is highly-advanced though less armored compared to the heavier Apache. The Chinese also have the advantage of bringing SPAAG, CIWS and short-range SAM on the highways to defend against Apache and Mi-35. Chinese infantry carry advanced QW-2 manpads (equivalent to Stinger). LCH never made it to the fight because India could not successfully turn the European-made Dhruv into a combat helicopter.
> 
> Waves of PLZ 04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death.
> 
> *Phase III: Chinese Counter-Offensive*
> 
> Having destroyed the IAF and destroyed the mountain divisions in both Eastern and Western Sectors, China went on the offense to incapacitate India from any future military adventures.
> 
> PLA advanced into the chicken-neck area and overran Indian defenses, cutting off the entire northeast. PLA moved through Myanmar and attacked Indian army positions near the border. India demanded that Bangladesh let Indian army transit through to save the northeast, but Bangladesh refused, knowing that it would gain from an independent Republic of Assam.
> 
> In the Western Sector, PLA attacked the Indian army on Siachen Glacier. Finally, PLA moved into Jammu and Kashmir to roll back the remaining Indian army. Overjoyed at their liberation, Kashmiris rise up and set fire to GoI buildings in Srinagar. The pro-India faction in Kashmir flees the angry mob.
> 
> Within two weeks from the beginning of the war, Kashmir was totally lost and the Indian army in Assam was cut off from the rest of India. Then, China fired hundreds terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missile at power plants and electricity grids. Suddenly, all the major cities in India are without electricity and running water.
> 
> Rebellion and communal violence breaks out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launch direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war.





After this majestic victory do you think you will survive .. Other countires will surely attack and defeat you permanently(Atleast US and Russia)... both China and India will be pushed back to several centuries back

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MrProudIndian

kingdurgaking said:


> After this majestic victory do you think you will survive .. Other countires will surely attack and defeat you permanently(Atleast US and Russia)... both China and India will be pushed back to several centuries back



that't actually a great point.
Why would US leave China and secure it's future.
India China war,keeping US in mind,is a blank future for China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## humanfirst

This hongwu would have made a lot of fame and money if he was born in pakistan..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> *Cause of the War*
> 
> The Indian military at the time of the Second Indo-Chinese War (starting sometime between 2013 and 2015) was a powerful force dominating South Asia. It was definitely not 1962, when India went to war against China without due preparation. Since 1962, India fought several border skirmishes with Pakistan and eventually split it in the 1971 war. In 1987, Indian troops even faced off against the PLA at Sumdorong Chu Valley and eventually occupied Southern Tibet and turned it into the state of Arunachal Pradesh.
> 
> Since the early 2000s, Indias economic growth has been spectacular, at least on paper. The economic growth created a sizable middle-class and upper-class Indians in the cities while poverty and malnutrition still existed in the countryside. Rampant inflation and other economic dislocation led to discontent from the urban poor. As India grew richer as a whole, Naxalites, Kashmiris and other rebellious factions grew more and more powerful.
> 
> As a result, New Delhi was forced to adopt a more and more aggressive foreign policy to keep the country united and distract from domestic problems. New Delhi strategists believed Indias path is to mimic the British Empire and project power as a conqueror. By 2010, India had outclassed Pakistan economically and regarded Pakistan only as source of terrorism, not a conventional war threat. Indias most powerful neighbor was China and New Delhi could not feel strategically secure until an independent Tibet is created as a buffer zone. This motivation was strengthened by Indias desire for redemption for its 1962 defeat and *deep-rooted colonial racism against China.*
> 
> Prior to 2000, India was shunned by the West and could only buy second-tier, faulty weapons from Russia. After 2000, India started to acquire first-tier weapons from Russia like the Su-30MKI and from Israel like the Phalcon AWACS and Green Pine radar. By 2010, even the US was offering India first-tier weapons like the new M777 light howitzer, C-130 transport and Apache combat helicopter. Between 1995 and 2010, the India military had gone from a large but low quality Soviet-armed force to a more professional force with an eclectic mix of modern weaponry from both East and West.
> 
> Strategic competition between US and China for primacy in East Asia was the reason why arming India became US policy. The US wanted to enlist India to help contain China. However, the US also faced the problem that it needed Pakistan too. This problem dogged the US until it finally reached a solution in 2010 -- *it would sell weapons to India to use against China in the Himalayan border regions, but it would discourage India from using them against Pakistan.
> *
> *The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful and eventually Indian Navy might start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean. The US also does not want to see India continue to improve its nuclear and missile technology so that one day it can build ICBM that can reach New York. But selling artillery, helicopters, transports and fighter jets (like Super Hornet and F-16E/F offered for MMRCA competition) to fight China in a Himalayan war is okay.*
> 
> Indo-Chinese relations plummeted in 2009 when India first decided to side with US to contain China and eventually carve out an independent Tibet. Since then, relations have been hostile, cold and confrontational. Sometime between 2013 and 2015, the newest US weapons were delivered to the Indian military. Not long after, the war begins.
> 
> *Deployment of Forces*
> 
> Since the late 2000s, India has been raising and deploying more and more elite mountain divisions toward both the Eastern Sector and Western Sector of the disputed boundary with China. India has been supplying them with airstrips in the forward areas like Tawang and Ladakh. Indian doctrine is to air strike deep into Tibet, cut off Chinese defenders from supplies and overrun them. Meanwhile, India will encourage ethnic Tibetans to rebel against Beijing and sabotage PLA supplies.
> 
> By the start of the war, China had largely completed its infrastructure construction in Tibet. It has a railroad from Qinghai to Tibet and another one from Chengdu to Lhasa. China built civilian airports and military air bases in Tibet close to the Indian border. Highways tunneled through mountains provide access to the disputed Eastern Sector. Meanwhile, China opened a railroad along the Karakorum Highway through Pakistan-administered Kashmir linking Kashgar, Xinjiang with Islamabad and opened a railroad from Tibet to Kathmandu.
> 
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 AM ----------
> 
> [/COLOR]*Phase I: The Indian Offensive*
> 
> Ground forces of the two countries had already been maneuvering and watching each other when the air war began. So, China was prepared when India began its attack on the Qinghai-Tibet railway and the Chengdu-Lhasa railway.
> 
> *MKI was simply no match for the J-11BS.* MKI had 1980s Soviet avionics compared to J-11BSs modern suite. MKI was a heavy Russian-manufactured beast while J-11BS was much lighter because of Chinas composite materials technology. Also, India could not maintain foreign equipment very well or repair because spare parts usually came from Russia. Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality. As a result, some of the force could not fly and defects affected the entire MKI force. Chinese AA missiles were also a generation ahead of the R-73 and R-73 on the MKI.
> 
> The J-10B also dominated Indias MMCRA. *The Eurofighter and Rafale were too expensive for India to buy in any reasonable quantity so India chose another. But none of the other aircraft had an advantage against the J-10B. The J-10B has stealth features like DSI-intakes and extensive composites. It uses the FWS10A -- a 140 kN engine in the same thrust class as the Russian 117S.* J-10B carries an AESA radar, electronic warfare suite and advanced AA missiles.* As an air superiority fighter, it is a true equal to the Eurofighter and Rafale.
> *
> But Chinas biggest advantage was numbers. Where India buys, China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. For China, a J-10B costs only ~$30 million, far less than what India would pay for a Mig-35! Where India can only induct 25 or 50 aircraft per year, Chinese war factories can crank out more than 100 per year. Just in the theater alone, China had more than 300 4th generation fighters (J-10B and J-11BS) to Indias 200 or so flyable MKI and MMRCA.
> 
> In the end, outmatched in both quantity and quality, the pride of the Indian Air Force was lost in the first few days. The remaining IAF is a handful of poorly maintained, half-flyable Mirage, Mig-29 and Mig-21. Those were quickly destroyed on the ground by J-11BS with precision-guided munitions, as were forward Indian air strips and logistics depots.
> 
> *Phase II: Mountain Warfare*
> 
> With total control of the skies, China proceeded to attack Indian army bases. The handful of Indian S-300 batteries was destroyed using SEAD tactics and the Y-8 electronic warfare aircraft. It was made easier by the fact that China itself operates these systems. The handful of Green Pine radars was destroyed using terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missiles. The indigenous Akash did not perform very well and could not stop PLAAF from dropping precision-guided munitions over all Indian army bases in forward areas.
> 
> Without fighter support or supplies, the elite Indian mountain divisions could only mount a brave but desperate offensive*. Z-10A grossly outnumbered the Apache that India purchased.* Again, this is because China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price.* The Z-10A is equivalent to the Eurocopter Tiger*; it is highly-advanced though less armored compared to the heavier Apache. The Chinese also have the advantage of bringing SPAAG, CIWS and short-range SAM on the highways to defend against Apache and Mi-35. Chinese infantry carry advanced QW-2 manpads (equivalent to Stinger). LCH never made it to the fight because India could not successfully turn the European-made Dhruv into a combat helicopter.
> 
> Waves of PLZ 04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death.
> 
> *Phase III: Chinese Counter-Offensive*
> 
> Having destroyed the IAF and destroyed the mountain divisions in both Eastern and Western Sectors, China went on the offense to incapacitate India from any future military adventures.
> 
> PLA advanced into the chicken-neck area and overran Indian defenses, cutting off the entire northeast. PLA moved through Myanmar and attacked Indian army positions near the border. India demanded that Bangladesh let Indian army transit through to save the northeast, but Bangladesh refused, knowing that it would gain from an independent Republic of Assam.
> 
> In the Western Sector, PLA attacked the Indian army on Siachen Glacier. Finally, PLA moved into Jammu and Kashmir to roll back the remaining Indian army. Overjoyed at their liberation, Kashmiris rise up and set fire to GoI buildings in Srinagar. The pro-India faction in Kashmir flees the angry mob.
> 
> Within two weeks from the beginning of the war, Kashmir was totally lost and the Indian army in Assam was cut off from the rest of India. Then, China fired hundreds terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missile at power plants and electricity grids. Suddenly, all the major cities in India are without electricity and running water.
> 
> Rebellion and communal violence breaks out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launch direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war.



 @ highlighted part..
Quality of Defence.pk

God bless u HongWu..
Happy new year...


----------



## J - 50

MrProudIndian said:


> that't actually a great point.
> Why would US leave China and secure it's future.
> India China war,keeping US in mind,is a blank future for China.


this conflict will not be for couple of weeks ... it will be stretched to years ... where
troops and arms will keep flowing to the conflict zone where indian army trucks will be a common sight for Bangadesh and Nepal .... and Chinese troop careers in Burma .... both armies will dug deep into himalayas where no modern ammunitions can penetrate .... 

US wont be a mere spectator... arms will flow to india ...as this will surely make us the hyperpower in 21st century ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hindutvadi

The part regarding the arms race was somewhat readable...and from "Phase I: The Indian Offensive"..well...i'll do the same thinking about hot chicks


----------



## tallboy123

Guys please stop replying to this troll thread..

Otherwise U'll get banned..


----------



## Masterchief

Dont know why some guys talk about war and sh!tty scenarios, are they tired of peace ?


----------



## Ahmeee

mautkimaut said:


> The entire assumption that India will attack China is ridiculous and do you think that if China will attack India, with more than 2 billion people at stake, World bodies will keep quiet.
> China is strong ,
> no doubt it but that does not means it will be a cake walk for China .
> 
> And why would China risk its trillions for a war ?
> India is not an existential threat to China?
> Or is it?
> You answer this question?I dont think China is wary about India as it is about US
> This is nothing but a fan boy imagination.



i thnk yew are absolutely rght neither India nor China will risk their colossal population for the sake of domination over each other. Both the countries possess the fatal weapon. And in this era does'nt allow the war b/w the power full dominations(fatal weapons),war i just concerned the countries like 
Israel v/s Palestine, America v/s Afghanistan, India v/s Kashmir, America v/s Iraq.. what to say about it..?


----------



## J - 50

Ahmeee said:


> i thnk yew are absolutely rght neither India nor China will risk their colossal population for the sake of domination over each other. Both the countries possess the fatal weapon. And in this era does'nt allow the war b/w the power full dominations(fatal weapons),war i just concerned the countries like
> Israel v/s Palestine, America v/s Afghanistan, India v/s Kashmir, America v/s Iraq.. what to say about it..?


india vs kashmir ???  

Pakistan vs BLA , Pakistani vs Pakistani Taliban ....

NATO+ Pakistan vs FATA ... 

pakistan looks like a complete warzone ,,, in that case...

kashmir valley is just 15-20&#37; of Jammu & kashmir state ...
where Jammu drives the economy and food grains... and ladhakh's tourism sector is one of the highest gainer in india....

the main problem in valley is no young men wants to come outside the valley and blaims india for everything...

jobs are thr in plenty for young ppl in india but valley invesment scenario is same as pakistan... 
on above indian goverment gives subsidy in valley, where everything costs a fraction the price in regular markets...that adds to more problem....as this will make ppl more dependent ... which makes then more degenerated,,

the alienation of valley can only be drafted away when young ppl will move for jobs in rest of india and brings back private sector to valley.. untill then every summer thr will be new so called rising and every winters indian goverment will be giving free electricity to shivering kashmiris so that they can stand up again in summers....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ganimi kawa

> *Rebellion and communal violence breaks out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launch direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war.*



And at this point Mr. Hong Wu simply sank into la la land!

Wargaming is a serious business and should be left to serious professionals!
 
A 'pointless' article indeed....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## unicorn148

India or China not in a case to go to a war with any country because both their economy are booming so they do not want that to stop and both China and dependent on each other for their own good and the trade btwn both countries is so huge that no one want to risk it and even the no Chinese and Indians living in the both countries are also so huge and investments made by chinese and indian companies made are huge and increasing very fast so at sucg a point of time no one would risk a war not until 2050........
WISH YOU ALL A HAPPY NEW YEAR......................


----------



## navtrek

mautkimaut said:


> This boomranged to a third world war and China met the same fate of Nazi germany



Nice one

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Parashuram1

This is a silly thread, freund. Do you genuinely see the prospects of full scale conflicts in today's time when proxy conflicts and asymmetric warfare do the job?


----------



## KS

HongWu said:


> Rebellion and communal violence breaks out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launch direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. *Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war*.




Seeing all is lost the Indian Generals make one final decision - if we are going down, then take down Pak and China along with us and empty all the nuke warheads on important cities like Shenzhen,Shanghai,Guandong,Beijing,Islamabad,Lahore,Karachi.

Mutually Assured Destruction for the win !!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## doctor_who

*second indo-chinawar (2013-2014)

Chinese military was a good force but with useless equipments. they had 1960-70's soviet equipments, with unreliable fate.

with their best fighter aircraft known as - su-mkk which was Russian import but lack of sanctioned equipment is lagging behind.

chinese have large number of aircraft's but most of them unreliable. like j-20 which never could found rightly avionics to be 4 th gen fighter at a class of - f-16 a/b.

j-11 which was copy from su-27 but never could reach the quality of su-27 . and most of them conked off during war hitting their own cities and killing their civilians.

china had good icbm but not many short range to actually hit target in india - most icbm made circl around th globe and hit their own cities.

their local missile which couldn't fire well but gave Indian missile good fight.

in the end china met its fate when - they fought india and rest of the world . they lost half a billion people, and rest who survived went for civil war . and ended up killing the army which forced china in to war.

after war civilians were let loose - democracy returned to china - and military people were shot dead. in Guantanamo bay. some say they still use them for guinea pigs.

chinese butt clinch internet warriors were taken in to hostage and they were given job to blow hot air baloons in kazakistan. where they still cant find out how they shyt in their pant when the real war started.*

happy ending for all. but war mongering internet arm chair warriors should stop coming on net because - remember uncle sam is watching you.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Karthic Sri said:


> Seeing all is lost the Indian Generals make one final decision - if we are going down, then take down Pak and China along with us and empty all the nuke warheads on important cities like Shenzhen,Shanghai,Guandong,Beijing,Islamabad,Lahore,Karachi.
> 
> Mutually Assured Destruction for the win !!!!!



You can't achieve Mutually Assured Destruction with your tiny 20kt nuclear weapons.

India's entire nuclear arsenal, is only about one megaton in total.

Whereas one single American/Chinese/Russian nuke, is already several megatons each.


----------



## mayankmatador

@hwang ho 
where do u make these stories..............
are they taught in ur curriculum..........

silly and absurd communist propoganda..........
know listen actual facts..
indian MKI bombed the rail route.....connecting china with LAC..
all supplies sabotaged bytibetians.. cutting the life line.indian army made a offensive attack annihilation of any thing coming infront of it.. seeing this chinese army who has been without supply surrenders but only after losing 100000 soldiers.....and liberating tibet
China asks from help from pakistan India Pakistan half heartedly makes an offensive....but indian army prepared for this retaliates all the attacks.and liberates p ok..at the same time on eastern front indian army is unstoppable....
Chinese air force tries but fails with a higher attriration rate...and decides to hold its use only for defensive purpose of its industrial area and big cities.... indian air force repeats history and a air superiority is there in eastern sector..... people aggrieved from the communist rule asked india for help... due to india's support they are able to topple the government..
and

china comes to knees infront of great India

a harsh a humilitaing treaty is signed by china..........
and Hwang ho is given appropriate punsihment for his anti indian thinking....


----------



## mayankmatador

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You can't achieve Mutually Assured Destruction with your tiny 20kt nuclear weapons.
> 
> India's entire nuclear arsenal, is only about one megaton in total.
> 
> Whereas one single American/Chinese/Russian nuke, is already several megatons each.


 you never know what surprise we may have for u all......
india has always kept its programme secret....
may be we have biological weapon..
may be a chemical weapon............

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## J - 50

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You can't achieve Mutually Assured Destruction with your tiny 20kt nuclear weapons.
> 
> India's entire nuclear arsenal, is only about one megaton in total.
> 
> Whereas one single American/Chinese/Russian nuke, is already several megatons each.


ok lets assume india doesnt have a NUKE more than 20KT ... 

now here you go.... suppose india decided to launch the 20k nukes... 

china's GDP is concentrated in 20 large cities.. a city like Shnaghai &#37;GDP would be really high ... so a 20kt nuke exploded 1 KM - 3 KM above shanghai will vaporise everything between 4km diameter ... so total 3 20kt nukes on shanghai will reduce chinese GDP by 280 billion $ ... that's a good %tage of Chinese GDP.. so reducing 20 cities like shanghai , hong kong, beijing.. who caontains good %tage hold of chinese gdp will push china back atleast 100 years.... 


so dont think like megatons of nuke will do the same job and 5 kt will do the same job in modern urban cities... 

taking all progress of a nation...


----------



## KS

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You can't achieve Mutually Assured Destruction with your tiny 20kt nuclear weapons.
> 
> India's entire nuclear arsenal, is only about one megaton in total.
> 
> Whereas one single American/Chinese/Russian nuke, is already several megatons each.



You seem to know quite a lot about Indian Nuke arsenal sitting in HK that even we Indians sitting 365 days a year in INdia dont know.

And why exactly do we need megaton nukes ?? To vaporize the Tibetan Mountan 

Are you by any chance Dr APJ Abdul Kalam under a false flag ??

If not please spare us your high IQ knowledge about Indian nukes. Instead research what a 15 kT nuke did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mautkimaut

close this thread already.We dont want to start new year on wrong footing with China.We should write stories how China and India came closer and started collaborating on everything.

*China and India launch joint Moon manned mission in 2019*
*China and India launch Gas pipeline with Central Asia*
*China and India start Universities to exchange students in 2015*
*China,India and Russia assist Africa to develop the continent*
*China India and Russia successful in Fusion reseach in 2019*

If you want to dream and make stories wouldnt these stories be much better???


Happy New Year to everyone.Lets collaborate instead of collide.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mayankmatador

Karthic Sri said:


> You seem to know quite a lot about Indian Nuke arsenal sitting in HK that even we Indians sitting 365 days a year in INdia dont know.
> 
> Are you by any chance Dr APJ Abdul Kalam under a false flag ??
> 
> If not please spare us your high IQ knowledge about Indian nukes. Instead research what a 15 kT nuke did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.



hahahhahahah karthik bro too funny............


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Karthic Sri said:


> If not please spare us your high IQ knowledge about Indian nukes.



The point is, there is no way India can achieve Mutually Assured Destruction towards China. Even India's entire nuclear arsenal could not destroy a single Chinese province. Your boasting regarding MAD is wasted.

The estimation of nuclear destructive power:

1. Russia ~ 1,273 megaton
2. USA ~ 570 megaton
3. China ~ 294 megaton
4. France ~ 55 megaton
5. UK ~ 16 megaton
6. Israel ~ 1.5 - 4 megaton
7. India ~ 0.8 - 1 megaton
8. Pakistan ~ 0.6 - 1 megaton
9. North Korea ~ Unknown

Link: *NTI: Nuclear Disarmament*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## justanobserver

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You can't achieve Mutually Assured Destruction with your tiny 20kt nuclear weapons.
> 
> India's entire nuclear arsenal, is only about one megaton in total.
> 
> Whereas one single American/Chinese/Russian nuke, is already several megatons each.





Megaton nukes were designed for busting hardened cold war era facilities like the one at NORAD .

North American Aerospace Defense Command - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A 13kt nuke destroyed Hiroshima remember ?


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

I thought I was reading historical facts. Then I realized the date (2013-2015) points only to the possibility of fortune telling.


----------



## justanobserver

deleted....repost


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

justanobserver said:


> Megaton nukes are designed to bust hardened bunkers.



Do you disagree with my statement that India cannot achieve MAD towards China?

Assuming your missiles can actually travel that far (and don't fail like the Agni-2 prime, or the failed satellite launch), you will probably be able to cause plenty of economic damage, but not MAD.


----------



## KS

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The point is, there is no way India can achieve Mutually Assured Destruction towards China. Even India's entire nuclear arsenal could not destroy a single Chinese province.
> 
> The estimation of nuclear destructive power:
> 
> 1. Russia ~ 1,273 megaton
> 2. USA ~ 570 megaton
> 3. China ~ 294 megaton
> 4. France ~ 55 megaton
> 5. UK ~ 16 megaton
> 6. Israel ~ 1.5 - 4 megaton
> 7. India ~ 0.8 - 1 megaton
> 8. Pakistan ~ 0.6 - 1 megaton
> 9. North Korea ~ Unknown
> 
> Link: *NTI: Nuclear Disarmament*



Again I cant believe your naivety when you post links of NGOs about top secret Nuke weaponry of India.

No on except the Prime Minister,President,topmost echelons in the Armed Forces know about the extent and the power of Indian nukes. And we will get to know the true extent only if they are fired in anger sometime in the future.

Get that straight before posting again about the puny nukes of India as quoted from an amateur NGO.

Also tell me one good reason why we should have megaton nukes ?? To vaporize the mountains of Tibet. ??

Research what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki on the hands of 15 kT nukes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## IND151

*if war occurs between china and India, it will be due to water. after 20 or more years global warming will be severe and will affect Himalaya more and its river. china, Pakistan and India will face 5&#37; reduction in food production due to decrease in levels of Himalayan rivers. this may lead to war.  *


> *The remarks of Suzanne DiMaggio in a report clearly indicate a concern between China and India. The conflict between China and India over water shall develop seriously, since the supplies of water in their rivers will decline as a result of melting of glaciers in the Himalayan mountains and ultimately the snow may almost disappear, and this shall naturally cause conflict between China and India over the water supplies as a result of shrinking of Himalayan mountain glaciers. Pakistan is already alleging foul play in water sharing by India.*
> 
> *Even as per the report of the United Nations, water shortages occurred in 8 percent of the world in 2002. By 2050, 40 percent of the population, or 4 billion people, will lack adequate water as drought spreads.  *



Himalayan Water to cause conflict bet. China & India? God Believers (GBA) | World News | World Current Affairs | Current World Affairs | News | Latest News | News Today | International Reporter


----------



## prototype

For the past few days i found many Chinese here who think wiping out India with nukes is easy like killing a mosquito that to without taking even a minute damage.

i dont know why they always tends to fake facts

at least Pakistani's here r sensible when they talk about nuclear war,they accept that MAD is inevitable.

the 13 KT Little boy wiped out the entire Hiroshima,and then a Chinese here think that 24 kt is to small,it will b an overkill for Beijing and Shanghai if India resorted to it,and the radiation and pollution is an another fact,some people tends to make senseless comments even without acknowledging the actual facts,and by the way Indian nuclear program is one of the highly secretive in the world,so please people dont arrive at fake conclusion's.

And I think many people missed something about the quality of Chinese planes described by Mr Hwangdu Sir here.

His take is that J-10 and J-11 BS(frankly I love that two words)is generation's ahead of MKI,Rafale and EF when the European and Russian aeronautical complex is decades ahead of China.

Chines people started to arrive with this conclusion's since last some months,when they r aware that MMRCA is somewhere near completion,so that they can make theirself believe that we r also on the same level field atleast for the sake of having some arguments here,and yes minus facts.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## J - 50

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The point is, there is no way India can achieve Mutually Assured Destruction towards China. Even India's entire nuclear arsenal could not destroy a single Chinese province. Your boasting regarding MAD is wasted.
> 
> The estimation of nuclear destructive power:
> 
> 1. Russia ~ 1,273 megaton
> 2. USA ~ 570 megaton
> 3. China ~ 294 megaton
> 4. France ~ 55 megaton
> 5. UK ~ 16 megaton
> 6. Israel ~ 1.5 - 4 megaton
> 7. India ~ 0.8 - 1 megaton
> 8. Pakistan ~ 0.6 - 1 megaton
> 9. North Korea ~ Unknown
> 
> Link: *NTI: Nuclear Disarmament*


you will never understand ...

Megatons.. Kilotons.... 

in war time situations nobody gonna use imported nuclear fuel for power generations ... all will be diverted to building nuke arsenal ... and as this is the last resort of any country ... so by the end of one month of conventional war ...

these kilotons will be converted to megatons ... 

and as I have already explained /// 

i think Hong Kong has around 200+ Billion $ gdp with millions of skilled populace so
even a world war 2 nuke ith 5KT will be able to push china into no china ... 
its all about precison nwdys ... more megaton would be useful if you dont have trust into CEP of ur missles ... so even if a missile goes away from its intended target it assures destruction ... but a Agni missile CEP is in meters /// so we wont need a 50 MT nuke...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Karthic Sri said:


> Again I cant believe your naivety when you post links of NGOs about top secret Nuke facilities in India.
> 
> No on except the Prime Minister,President,topmost echelons in the Armed Forces know about the extent and the power of Indian nukes.



I'll say it again, India cannot achieve MAD towards China.

If you disagree, give me a proper argument as to why you disagree.

Your emotions regarding the final blow that India could deal to her enemies is wasted. Splitting India's nukes between China and Pakistan, not to mention the low number of missiles that can actually reach coastal Chinese cities... just further reduces the number of nukes that can cause serious damage against China.

MAD cannot be achieved. Destruction, yes... severe economic damage, yes... but not MAD.


----------



## justanobserver

Chinese-Dragon
said:


> Do you disagree with my statement that India cannot achieve MAD towards China?



Aww come on, you're not Russia/America, all your population centers are based on river plains. One or two strategic shots and poof! 



> Assuming your missiles can actually travel that far (and don't fail like the Agni-2 prime, or the failed satellite launch), you will probably be able to cause plenty of economic damage, but not MAD.



My my...you've resorted to offtopic trolling 

The Agni III is fully operational. That lauch was just a test of the GSLV platform, PSLV is our workhorse. But I don't know how's this relevant to this topic (offtopic trolling  )

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dalai Lama

alex mercer said:


> For the past few days i found many Chinese here who think wiping out India with nukes is easy like killing a mosquito that to without taking even a minute damage.
> 
> i dont know why they always tends to fake facts
> 
> at least Pakistani's here r sensible when they talk about nuclear war,they accept that MAD is inevitable.
> 
> the 13 KT Little boy wiped out the entire Hiroshima,and then a Chinese here think that 24 kt is to small,it will b an overkill for Beijing and Shanghai if India resorted to it,and the radiation and pollution is an another fact,some people tends to make senseless comments even without acknowledging the actual facts,and by the way Indian nuclear program is one of the highly secretive in the world,so please people dont arrive at fake conclusion's.
> 
> And I think many people missed something about the quality of Chinese planes described by Mr Hwangdu Sir here.
> 
> His take is that J-10 and J-11 BS(frankly I love that two words)is generation's ahead of MKI,Rafale and EF when the European and Russian aeronautical complex is decades ahead of China.
> 
> Chines people started to arrive with this conclusion's since last some months,when they r aware that MMRCA is somewhere near completion,so that they can make theirself believe that we r also on the same level field atleast for the sake of having some arguments here,and yes minus facts.




We should just go ahead and agree with them. There's no point in arguing. I'd rather let them live in their delusional world than waste my energy arguing with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LaBong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'll say it again, India cannot achieve MAD towards China.
> 
> If you disagree, give me a proper argument as to why you disagree.
> 
> Your emotions regarding the final blow that India could deal to her enemies is wasted. Splitting India's nukes between China and Pakistan, not to mention the low number of missiles that can actually reach coastal Chinese cities... just further reduces the number of nukes that can cause serious damage against China.
> 
> MAD cannot be achieved.



Agni 3, which is fully operational can reach any Chinese city with lighter payload.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

^^^ I find it hilarious how people argue against my point without actually talking about the point.

The point is, India cannot achieve MAD towards China. Small nuclear stockpile, huge distances to major cities, and the need to reserve some of the stockpile for Pakistan too.

Deterrence, economic damage, that's all possible... but not MAD. That requires a level of destruction that would cause a nation to lose sovereignty.


----------



## justanobserver

^^
Aww cut the BS please 

This is China (the part with the lights, pic was taken in 2009 btw)







Few nukes and poof!

(check out Pakistan too)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Impasse

This forum allows such threads and then Moderator claims this is a professional thread...


----------



## prototype

justanobserver said:


> The Agni III is fully operational. That lauch was just a test of the GSLV platform, PSLV is our workhorse. But I don't know how's this relevant to this topic (offtopic trolling  )



Agni-3,what?

Now ur telling about Agni-3 to a bunch who donot understand even the spelling difference between agni-2 and agni 2 prime

It seems CSS-5 Mod 3 was developed because CSS -5 Mod 2 and Mod-1 were useless missiles,based on their side of argument,and who know about CSS mod 3,it may b also a paper missile


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

justanobserver said:


> Few nukes and poof!



Your argument has come down to "poof" has it? 

I'll ask once again... if you disagree with my statement that India cannot achieve MAD towards China, then give a rational argument as to why not.

Even given that map above, India's estimated nuclear arsenal of about one megaton, can hardly hope to cover all the bright areas on the map above, or anywhere close to causing enough destruction to achieve MAD.


----------



## KS

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'll say it again, India cannot achieve MAD towards China.



Awww whatever makes you feel safe.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> If you disagree, give me a proper argument as to why you disagree.



I disagree because you are not spending your time on researching what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki when US dropped puny 15 kT nukes on them. 

See your economic progress and might is concentrated only on about 15 cities along the eastern coast like Shanghai, Beijing,Shenzhen,Hong kong, Nanjing,Guandong etc. Take out that and you are good as nothing.

All that you can do next is herd sheeps in Tibet and export the wool to other countries ( If Tibet still is with you after the unrest following nuke attacks on the above cities)



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Your emotions regarding the final blow that India could deal to her enemies is wasted. Splitting India's nukes between China and Pakistan, not to mention the low number of missiles that can actually reach coastal Chinese cities... just further reduces the number of nukes that can cause serious damage against China.



Do you know the missile production rate in India ?? Do you know how many missiles are operational as I type this post with the SFC. If not I dont see anything in arguing with you.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> MAD cannot be achieved. Destruction, yes... severe economic damage, yes... but not MAD.



In china's case economic destruction = MAD. You are where you are are because of your economy and that economy is what it is because of the cities and the population concentrated around them. Think about it without the veil of fake pride covering your eyes.

Think what will happen if the three gorges is blasted. We can make the war so costly for you that you will wish you had not undertaken it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LaBong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> ^^^ I find it hilarious how people argue against my point without actually talking about the point.
> 
> The point is, India cannot achieve MAD towards China. Small nuclear stockpile, huge distances to major cities, and the need to reserve some of the stockpile for Pakistan too.
> 
> Deterrence, economic damage, that's all possible... but not MAD. That requires a level of destruction that would cause a country to no longer become a functioning state.



That's easily achievable. Most of Chinese population is based on East cost. Destruction of major cities will cause the state to stop functioning. Where as Indian population is fairly distributed in the whole country and most being rural. It's rather hard for China to achieve MAD. 

If we are talking about 13-15 timeline, we woul have tested Agni-5 and Arihant will be operational. Add to it Su-30s and Brahmos. Sorry but in case of a nuclear conflict I don't see major Chinese cities surviving.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PRACTICAL PATRIOT

ok a bs thread coming from a chinese member(though not a sensible chinese member) about bashing INDIA and is criticised by even pakistani members(though many thanked the thread starter). 
i see new year has brought in some change. not bad atall..


----------



## justanobserver

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Your argument has come down to "poof" has it?



Okay then I'll use the word "devastated" 

Digs at the Agni-II Prime (What is the Agni III? ) and The GSLV (not even remotely related) are what you call an argument ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Karthic Sri said:


> *Awww *whatever makes you feel safe.





justanobserver said:


> *Aww *cut the BS please



I love all these "Awwws" since apparently the original question cannot be answered, even after so many replies. 

Karthic Sri argued that India, in its final dying breath, would be able to take down both Pakistan and China, splitting their already limited nuclear arsenal.

My argument is that India's small nuclear arsenal and limited delivery capabilities are not sufficient to cause MAD towards China.

I would love to hear a rational argument against it.


----------



## mautkimaut

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Your argument has come down to "poof" has it?
> 
> I'll ask once again... if you disagree with my statement that India cannot achieve MAD towards China, then give a rational argument as to why not.
> 
> Even given that map above, India's estimated nuclear arsenal of about one megaton, can hardly hope to cover all the bright areas on the map above, or anywhere close to causing enough destruction to achieve MAD.



Well I agree that India wont achieve MAD against China ...whereas China
can.But that does not means China will do that.
Why are we bring MAD into this.
surely we can stop this madness
I believe status quo can be maintained.We wont Hit China nor China will hit us...Thankfully there are mandarins sitting in power who will think 1000 times before launching a war

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## J - 50

Chinese-Dragon said:


> ^^^ I find it hilarious how people argue against my point without actually talking about the point.
> 
> The point is, India cannot achieve MAD towards China. Small nuclear stockpile, huge distances to major cities, and the need to reserve some of the stockpile for Pakistan too.
> 
> Deterrence, economic damage, that's all possible... but not MAD. That requires a level of destruction that would cause a nation to lose sovereignty.


MAD ....

now i dont know why you chinese always claim that your IQ is above average...
when you cant understan that ... even 100 ... 50MT nuke concentrated on major cities will give you the same effect as a 5KT nuke concentrated on precision strike...

read this:

The Tsar Bomba detonated at 11:32 on October 30, 1961 over the Mityushikha Bay nuclear testing range (Sukhoy Nos Zone C), north of the Arctic Circle on Novaya Zemlya Island in the Arctic Sea. The bomb was dropped from an altitude of 10.5 kilometres (6.5 mi); it was designed to detonate at a height of 4 kilometres (2.5 mi) over the land surface (4.2 kilometres (2.6 mi) over sea level) by barometric sensors


,,,, it had a area of immediate effect of around 3.2 Kms... 

now got it ...

the intensity of the blast will be svere ... but the area of effect will be almost same.... 
you could use 100 50mt nukes but you will be able to destroy only city hubs ...

if you economic structure , ur federal structure is gone all communication gone... what a citizen of china sitting in a small tier 2 city will do same is case with india....

the rest will see nuclear winds in both countries flowing for 35 years to come ...

they wont be living they will be praying to die....

this is called 

MAD...


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Abir said:


> That's easily achievable. Most of Chinese population is based on East cost. Destruction of major cities will cause the state to stop functioning. Where as Indian population is fairly distributed in the whole country and most being rural. It's rather hard for China to achieve MAD.
> 
> If we are talking about 13-15 timeline, we woul have tested Agni-5 and Arihant will be operational. Add to it Su-30s and Brahmos. Sorry but in case of a nuclear conflict I don't see major Chinese cities surviving.



Only 43% of the Chinese population lives in cities, and they are not all on the East coast, many of them are in central and southern China.

Just look at the arsenal size comparison, 294 megatons (with ICBM's developed since the 1970's) vs 1 megaton and a limited delivery system.


----------



## KS

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I love all these "Awwws" since apparently the original question cannot be answered, even after so many replies.



Rather that comes from the smirk seeing a senior member whose loves to be in a cocoon of false safety and who gives some amatuer website as link to justify it.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Karthic Sri argued that India, in its final dying breath, would be able to take down both Pakistan and China, splitting their already limited nuclear arsenal.
> 
> My argument is that India's small nuclear arsenal and limited delivery capabilities are not sufficient to cause MAD towards China.
> 
> I would love to hear a rational argument against it.



If this is not rational enough for you to see the truth, then I think your rationality processor is in serious trouble.



> I disagree because you are not spending your time on researching what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki when US dropped puny 15 kT nukes on them.
> 
> See your economic progress and might is concentrated only on about 15 cities along the eastern coast like Shanghai, Beijing,Shenzhen,Hong kong, Nanjing,Guandong etc. Take out that and you are good as nothing.
> 
> All that you can do next is herd sheeps in Tibet and export the wool to other countries ( If Tibet still is with you after the unrest following nuke attacks on the above cities)





> In china's case economic destruction = MAD. You are where you are are because of your economy and that economy is what it is because of the cities and the population concentrated around them. Think about it without the veil of fake pride covering your eyes.
> 
> Think what will happen if the three gorges is blasted. We can make the war so costly for you that you will wish you had not undertaken it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## prototype

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I love all these "Awwws" since apparently the original question cannot be answered, even after so many replies.
> 
> Karthic Sri argued that India, in its final dying breath, would be able to take down both Pakistan and China, splitting their already limited nuclear arsenal.
> 
> My argument is that India's small nuclear arsenal and limited delivery capabilities are not sufficient to cause MAD towards China.
> 
> I would love to hear a rational argument against it.



rational argument? really hmmmm,then what was the reason u calmly ignored the facts about little boy,do u know what is little boy,probably not


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

mautkimaut said:


> Well I agree that India wont achieve MAD against China ...whereas China
> can.But that does not means China will do that.
> Why are we bring MAD into this.
> surely we can stop this madness
> I believe status quo can be maintained.We wont Hit China nor China will hit us...Thankfully there are mandarins sitting in power who will think 1000 times before launching a war



There we go. 

Luckily someone here is sane enough to realize that it's probably best not to launch the nukes in the first place, rather than making boasts about somehow being able to "take others down with us" despite the lack of capability.


----------



## justanobserver

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Only 43&#37; of the Chinese population lives in cities, and they are not all on the East coast, *many of them are in central and southern China.*



Is that 'rational' ?

Satellites don't lie

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## navtrek

Even though the thread is pretty foolish and waste of time but i really feel like posting some pics for Indian reply:

Artillery options:

first rocket artillery

Pinaka






Smerch






Second






Attack Helicopters

first Light combat helicopter






Weaponised Dhruv






Akash SAM.






Brahmos cruise missile

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## navtrek

and Su 30 MKI with Rafale or typhoon 
















Indian AWACS






and the DRDO indigenous AWACS

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

justanobserver said:


> Is that 'rational' ?
> 
> Satellites don't lie



Did you even look at that picture you posted? 

The large western provinces are dark yes (roughly corresponding to Tibet and Xinjiang), but the eastern/central/southern provinces are bright.

The large size of Tibet and Xinjiang may skew it a little bit to the East, but Xizang/Xinjiang are both "western provinces" despite them taking up a lot of the center too.

Anyway, the area of brightness in China is about the same size as the area of brightness in India, and the level of development in China is obviously much higher as well. Given that China is the 2nd largest economy in the world, and India is not even in the top ten largest economies.


----------



## mautkimaut

I hate the war mongers.On this thread So many of them.
This thread is stupid


----------



## navtrek

^^^^ the above posts are just a reply to the pics posted by the thread starter.

Nice to see that India is placed well to fend off any misadventure this time


----------



## LaBong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Only 43% of the Chinese population lives in cities, and they are not all on the East coast, many of them are in central and southern China.
> 
> Just look at the arsenal size comparison, 294 megatons (with ICBM's developed since the 1970's) vs 1 megaton and a limited delivery system.



India didn't go for ICBM for a reason, but India do have delivery system to deliver nukes to any Chinese city. Unlike China, we don't have inter continental advisories so ICBM is not our requirement. 

1 megaton is BS, no one knows how much warhead India have, but India have enough material to multiply it's stockpile by several times in very short timespan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

I realized that I didn't give losses for PLA, making people think PLA suffers no losses. This is changed now in BLUE. I also added a "summary" section. There are small fixes throughout based on comments in this thread.



DesiGuy said:


> just by looking at the thread starter, this thread conclusion is:
> 
> it was ALL Indian fault. am i right or wrong ppl?


I think the problem is with your education system. They teach you that China is like India -- a new country born after WW2.

China is continuous from Qing to PRC. So Qing territories like Tibet and Xinjiang naturally belong to modern China. India is not the same because ROI is a brand new country for Hindus carved out of British Empire so you cannot claim imperial lands as your own (just as Pakistan cannot either).



kingdurgaking said:


> After this majestic victory do you think you will survive .. Other countires will surely attack and defeat you permanently(Atleast US and Russia)... both China and India will be pushed back to several centuries back


That is hard to count on. Neither US nor Russia opened up a second front in 1962. All they did was supply arms.



J - 50 said:


> this conflict will not be for couple of weeks ... it will be stretched to years ... where
> troops and arms will keep flowing to the conflict zone where indian army trucks will be a common sight for Bangadesh and Nepal .... and Chinese troop careers in Burma .... both armies will dug deep into himalayas where no modern ammunitions can penetrate ....
> 
> US wont be a mere spectator...


It is likely the US will supply more weapons to India in the Second Indo-Chinese War. I wonder if India will allow US troops to enter its territory to defend it? Or US aircraft to patrol Indian airspace? Will this bring back unpleasant memories of the British?

Russia won't help you. Russia and China tag-team on all sorts of issues because we both sit at the big-boys table. For now, India still sits at the South Asia regional table. It is only US flattery that makes India think it's in league with the big boys.



J - 50 said:


> arms will flow to india ...as this will surely make us the hyperpower in 21st century ....


I'm not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek.


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

Abir said:


> India didn't go for ICBM for a reason, but India do have delivery system to deliver nukes to any Chinese city. Unlike China, we don't have inter continental advisories so ICBM is not our requirement.
> 
> 1 megaton is BS, no one knows how much warhead India have, but India have enough material to multiply it's stockpile by several times in very short timespan.



I've just finished an episode of Jon Steward. So I've decided to say something to stop the sanity. India was a colony. The Indian Military's top priority should be to make sure that won't happen again. Instead, Indians are obsessed with China. Strange.

Maybe because I am from Yugoslavia. I never understand Indians.


----------



## LaBong

HongWu said:


> I realized that I didn't give losses for PLA, making people think PLA suffers no losses. This is changed now. I also added a "summary" section. There are small fixes throughout based on comments in this thread.
> 
> 
> I think the problem is with your education system. They teach you that China is like India -- a new country born after WW2.
> 
> China is continuous from Qing to PRC. So Qing territories like Tibet and Xinjiang naturally belong to modern China. India is not the same because ROI is a brand new country for Hindus carved out of British Empire so you cannot claim imperial lands as your own (just as Pakistan cannot either).
> 
> 
> That is hard to count on. Neither US nor Russia opened up a second front in 1962. All they did was supply arms.
> 
> 
> It is likely the US will supply more weapons to India in the Second Indo-Chinese War. I wonder if India will allow US troops to enter its territory to defend it? Or US aircraft to patrol Indian airspace? Will this bring back unpleasant memories of the British?
> 
> Russia won't help you. Russia and China tag-team on all sorts of issues because we both sit at the big-boys table. For now, India still sits at the South Asia regional table. It is only US flattery that makes India think it's in league with the big boys.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek.



Lord Honglu, you are back. Did I tell you I'm a communist last time we talked!  Hope you spare me of suitcase nuke when invading India.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## KS

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> Maybe because I am from Yugoslavia. I never understand Indians.



Exactly---- you wont.

Stop trying hard.

BTW isnt your country named 'Yugoslavia' extinct right now ??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## justanobserver

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The large size of Tibet and Xinjiang may skew it a little bit to the East, but Xizang/Xinjiang *are both "western provinces"* d*espite them taking up a lot of the center too.*



Call them eastern or western, the satellites don't lie 









="Chinese-Dragon" said:


> Anyway, the area of brightness in China is about the same size as the area of brightness in India, an*d the level of development in China is obviously much higher as well. Given that China is the 2nd largest economy in the world, and India is not even in the top ten largest economies. *



Insecure much?

Did I take a dig at China's economy ? 

I thought majority of Chinese weren't chest-thumpers

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LaBong

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> I've just finished an episode of Jon Steward. So I've decided to say something to stop the sanity. India was a colony. The Indian Military's top priority should be to make sure that won't happen again. Instead, Indians are obsessed with China. Strange.
> 
> Maybe because I am from Yugoslavia. I never understand Indians.



We are discussing possible deterrence. India has no-first-use nuclear policy(as does China). 

Strange you find Indians are obsessed with China when a Chinese member started this stupid thread anyway.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

justanobserver said:


> I thought majority of Chinese weren't chest-thumpers



Well you can re-adjust your stereotypes based on this new perception.


----------



## LaBong

Well I was listening Bowie's China Girl when composing my post, ironic isn't it.  


Happy new year people, let's not talk about nuking each other in the first day of new year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PRACTICAL PATRIOT

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> I've just finished an episode of Jon Steward. So I've decided to say something to stop the sanity. *India was a colony. The Indian Military's top priority should be to make sure that won't happen again. Instead, Indians are obsessed with China. Strange.*
> 
> Maybe because I am from Yugoslavia. I never understand Indians.



india existed long before britishers came but wasnt united. it was just divided into many small states belonging to many communities.

and top priority of INDIA's military is protecting INDIA from any foreign agression maintaining its integrity, and thats what they do and are doing. we are not obsessed with chinese but we are just taking precautionary measures to avoid any misadventure from any country which may or maynot be for colonisation of INDIA.

and about understanding us its damn difficult because we come in all sizes and shapes and casts and colors and creeds but can be easily done if you try exploring INDIA after taking a look at INDIA from your own eyes rather than from looking at it from someones elses glasses.


----------



## CaptainJackSparrow

Abir said:


> Well I was listening Bowie's China Girl when composing my post, ironic isn't it.
> 
> 
> Happy new year people, let's not talk about nuking each other in the first day of new year.



Happy nuke year

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## J - 50

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> I've just finished an episode of Jon Steward. So I've decided to say something to stop the sanity. India was a colony. The Indian Military's top priority should be to make sure that won't happen again. Instead, Indians are obsessed with China. Strange.
> 
> Maybe because I am from Yugoslavia. I never understand Indians.


File:Maurya Dynasty in 265 BCE.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

check this link .... 

your ancestors were still hanging on trees when indian civilization were on its peak...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

Karthic Sri said:


> Exactly---- you wont.
> 
> Stop trying hard.
> 
> BTW isnt your country named 'Yugoslavia' extinct right now ??



The spirit will live on. They can bomb our cities, they can take our land, they can install puppets, but we are the true Yugoslavians, we will live on. We will com back. If I don't, that means I am dead. But don't cry my brothers and sisters, when you one day able to see beautiful flowers re-flourish in this great land, that's me, smiling at you.
Long live Yugoslavia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IND151

*



by PRACTICAL PATRIOT





Originally Posted by NmHqh2JbVo 
I've just finished an episode of Jon Steward. So I've decided to say something to stop the sanity. India was a colony. The Indian Military's top priority should be to make sure that won't happen again. Instead, Indians are obsessed with China. Strange.

Maybe because I am from Yugoslavia. I never understand Indians.

Click to expand...

india existed long before britishers came but wasnt united. it was just divided into many small states belonging to many communities.

and top priority of INDIA's military is protecting INDIA from any foreign agression maintaining its integrity, and thats what they do and are doing. we are not obsessed with chinese but we are just taking precautionary measures to avoid any misadventure from any country which may or maynot be for colonisation of INDIA.

and about understanding us its damn difficult because we come in all sizes and shapes and casts and colors and creeds but can be easily done if you try exploring INDIA after taking a look at INDIA from your own eyes rather than from looking at it from someones elses glasses.

Click to expand...

* you are correct. aim of Indian army is to defend India. *we should always be armed and alert so our neighbors wont dare to fight us. we are not obsessed with china. *


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

IND151 said:


> you are correct. aim of Indian army is to defend India. *we should always armed and alert so our neighbors wont dare to fight us.*



It's world agreed historical fact that none of your neighbors ever made you into a colony. In my opinion, India is already quite successful amongst our neighbors (of being able to maintain non-colony status since the dawn of time).

Congratulations. And keep it coming, fine lads of India.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KS

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> The spirit will live on. They can bomb our cities, they can take our land, they can install puppets, but we are the true Yugoslavians, we will live on. We will com back. If I don't, that means I am dead. But don't cry my brothers and sisters, when you one day able to see beautiful flowers re-flourish in this great land, that's me, smiling at you.
> Long live Yugoslavia.



Woh woh spare me this emotional atyachar !

The quoted part is the exact reason we are obsessed with Chinese. They are the future threat # 1 for India if not already now.


----------



## PRACTICAL PATRIOT

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> *It's world agreed historical fact that none of your neighbors ever made you into a colony.* In my opinion, India is already quite successful amongst our neighbors (of being able to maintain non-colony status since the dawn of time).
> 
> Congratulations. And keep it coming, fine lads of India.



ok you need to learn more history
weren't moghals neighbors to then INDIA??
and even if we consider that none of our neighbours tried to colonized INDIA, didnt pakistan attacked INDIA in 1965 , 1999(kargil)???(just included pakistan as a example no intention other than that)
agreed that pakistan didnt had intention of colonizing INDIA. so does that mean INDIA should protect itself only from those who are trying for colonizing and should let other offenders do whatever they want against integrity of INDIA?????

and again i will consider that no neighbor tried to colonize INDIA but how does that guarantee that it wont ever happen again in future??


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

PRACTICAL PATRIOT said:


> ok you need to learn more history
> weren't moghals neighbors to then INDIA??
> and even if we consider that none of our neighbours tried to colonized INDIA, didnt pakistan attacked INDIA in 1965 , 1999(kargil)???(just included pakistan as a example no intention other than that)
> agreed that pakistan didnt had intention of colonizing INDIA. so does that mean INDIA should protect itself only from those who are trying for colonizing and should let other offenders do whatever they want against integrity of INDIA?????
> 
> and again i will consider that no neighbor tried to colonize INDIA but how does that guarantee that it wont ever happen again in future??



But you should guard above all the British, no?
They've done it once. They might want to do it again. No?
All other logic is insane.


----------



## justanobserver

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> It's world agreed historical fact that none of your neighbors ever made you into a colony. In my opinion, India is already quite successful amongst our neighbors (of being able to maintain non-colony status since the dawn of time).
> 
> Congratulations. And keep it coming, fine lads of India.



Why thank you fine lad of a non-existent country which had glorious history of a full *14 years*, before invaded by the allies and later being split up


----------



## HongWu

Karthic Sri said:


> Research what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki on the hands of 15 kT nukes.


Please, take your own advice first. From Wikipedia:


> On May 1011, 1945, the Target Committee at Los Alamos, led by J. Robert Oppenheimer, recommended Kyoto, Niigata, Hiroshima, Yokohama, and the arsenal at Kokura as possible targets. The target selection was subject to the following criteria:
> 
> * *The target was larger than three miles in diameter* and was an important target in a large urban area.
> 
> Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is *such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged*."


Hiroshima and Nagasaki were very small "cities" of a few miles in diameter. In today's terms they would be more like small towns. Residential complexes in today's China are bigger than that!



J - 50 said:


> in war time situations nobody gonna use imported nuclear fuel for power generations ... all will be diverted to building nuke arsenal ... and as this is the last resort of any country ... *so by the end of one month of conventional war ...
> 
> these kilotons will be converted to megatons*


Good point!

But it would take more than one month to turn reactor grade fuel into a weapon. Lots of time for China to target Indian reactors.



J - 50 said:


> i think Hong Kong has around 200+ Billion $ gdp with millions of skilled populace so
> even a world war 2 nuke ith 5KT will be able to push china into no china ...
> its all about precison nwdys ... more megaton would be useful if you dont have trust into CEP of ur missles ... so even if a missile goes away from its intended target it assures destruction ... but a Agni missile CEP is in meters /// so we wont need a 50 MT nuke...


Actually, in my original version, the Indian PM orders an atomic strike on China after Kashmir and northeast falls. The whole thing ended up with Chinese and Pakistani tanks fighting through Punjab State and Haryana to reach Delhi.

Then I thought, it's New Years, let's play nice. So I stopped at India falls into chaos. 



justanobserver said:


> Aww come on, you're not Russia/America, all your population centers are based on river plains. One or two strategic shots and poof!


China is bigger than USA and 3x the size of India. That's China minus historical territories like Outer Mongolia.



Abir said:


> Agni 3, which is fully operational can reach any Chinese city with lighter payload.


   And Agni-I with very light payload is an ICBM. And Pakistan too has ICBM if it uses very light payload.



alex mercer said:


> Agni-3,what?
> 
> Now ur telling about Agni-3 to a bunch who donot understand even the spelling difference between agni-2 and agni 2 prime
> 
> It seems CSS-5 Mod 3 was developed because CSS -5 Mod 2 and Mod-1 were useless missiles,based on their side of argument,and who know about CSS mod 3,it may b also a paper missile


You misunderstand the argument. It is because India always exaggerates its missiles (Agni-VIII..... Agni-XVI..... Agni-MCXXV) that it's *obvious *there is something wrong with Agni-II and every other number higher. That's why they had to humbly go back to Agni-II "prime."

If China kept making DF-9.... DF-20..... DF-387.... and then went back to DF-9A, I would say the same thing. But China does not exaggerate its number like India does.



Karthic Sri said:


> Think what will happen if the three gorges is blasted. We can make the war so costly for you that you will wish you had not undertaken it.


Three Gorges can be drained prior to hostilities. It takes about a month to lower the water level. After the water is lowered, even if it is hit, it's just some concrete broken. No downstream effect.


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

justanobserver said:


> Why thank you fine lad of a non-existent country which had glorious history of a full *14 years*, before invaded by the allies and later being split up



That's the way of life, no?
Split, grow, dead.
When you finally fully grown, you can say: Let's get insane, babe.


----------



## justanobserver

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> That's the way of life, no?
> Split, grow, dead.
> When you finally fully grown, you can say: Let's get insane, babe.



I love this forum


----------



## LaBong

HongWu said:


> Please, take your own advice first. From Wikipedia:



Get well soon hongdu!


----------



## PRACTICAL PATRIOT

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> But you should guard above all the *British, no?
> They've done it once. They might want to do it again. No?
> All other logic is insane*.



this post clearly shows your sanity level
still i m trying to explain you once again

INDIA's defence forces are to protect INDIA from any or every aggression may it be british , pakistan , china or even aliens for that matter.
its just that right now we see china a potent enemy so we are keeping ourself good enough to defend against any threat from them.


----------



## &#20013;&#22269;&#19975;&#23681;-ProsperThroughCo-

Ah, the internet. More specifically the military forums. Where so many are hawkish arm chair generals. How many of you have actually served in the military? 

The asians should stop arguing and rather co-operate. The only ones benefiting are the westerners.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KS

HongWu said:


> Please, take your own advice first. From Wikipedia:
> 
> Hiroshima and Nagasaki were very small "cities" of a few miles in diameter. In today's terms they would be more like small towns. Residential complexes in today's China are bigger than that!



First let me lol for using Wikipedia as a source.

Coming to your point how about two or three nukes on the same city ?? Is your question answered Hongndu ??



HongWu said:


> Three Gorges can be drained prior to hostilities. It takes about a month to lower the water level. After the water is lowered, even if it is hit, it's just some concrete broken. No downstream effect.



Takes about a month ?? We are not putting some resignation to give a notice of one month before attacking it. 



&#20013;&#22269;&#19975;&#23681;-ProsperThroughCo-op;1380428 said:


> Ah, the internet. More specifically the military forums. Where so many are hawkish arm chair generals. How many of you have actually served in the military?
> 
> The asians should stop arguing and rather co-operate. The only ones benefiting are the westerners.



May your tribe increase.


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

Karthic Sri said:


> First let me lol for using Wikipedia as a source.
> 
> Coming to your point how about two or three nukes on the same city ?? Is your question answered Hongndu ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Takes about a month ?? We are not putting some resignation to give a notice of one month before attacking it.



If I were Indian, I would not laugh at it. What it the aftermath got Chinese thinking: WTH, screw it. We'll build a new one in Tibet.


----------



## KS

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> If I were Indian, I would not laugh at it. What it the aftermath got Chinese thinking: WTH, screw it. We'll build a new one in Tibet.



If only it was as easy as typing it in def.pk


----------



## HongWu

Karthic Sri said:


> Coming to your point how about two or three nukes on the same city ?? Is your question answered Hongndu ??


Of course not, you are saying a 20 kt nuke can destroy a normal-sized city. I'm saying no.... Hiroshima / Nagasaki would not be considered "cities" today. They are only a few miles in diameter.

Beijing urban area is like what 60 km in diameter at least. Do the math as for how much you need.

*There is a reason why all the real superpowers have multimegaton thermonuclear weapons!!!*



Karthic Sri said:


> Takes about a month ?? We are not putting some resignation to give a notice of one month before attacking it.


Not intentionally, but obviously relations will get really bad before India tries to attack Three Gorges. By the way, I'm saying this purely as hypothetical.... in reality India is far far away from that ability as Bangladesh Air Force is from air-strikes on New Delhi.


----------



## chinautumn

a stupid article(sha bi)


----------



## KS

HongWu said:


> Of course not, you are saying a 20 kt nuke can destroy a normal-sized city. I'm saying no.... Hiroshima / Nagasaki would not be considered "cities" today. They are only a few miles in diameter.
> 
> Beijing urban area is like what 60 km in diameter at least. Do the math as for how much you need.



Wrong, three or four nukes launched on Shanghai or Beijing can completely obliterate it. I am not considering the after effects like radiation here that will stay and make the place un-inhabitable.



HongWu said:


> *There is a reason why all the real superpowers have multimegaton thermonuclear weapons!!!*



Wrong again.

Megaton nukes were required in the era when delivery systems were not fully developed. Its not the case now. For example the CEP of Agni 3 (which can comfortably reach Beijing or Shangai) is about 50 m.

The US and Russia both use standard 400 kT nukes in their ICBMs and fyi no one exactly knows what is the capability of the Indian nukes.



HongWu said:


> Not intentionally, but obviously relations will get really bad before India tries to attack Three Gorges. By the way, I'm saying this purely as hypothetical.... in reality India is far far away from that ability as Bangladesh Air Force is from air-strikes on New Delhi.



Lol....go into your safety cocoon kid and dont come out.


----------



## kingdurgaking

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The point is, there is no way India can achieve Mutually Assured Destruction towards China. Even India's entire nuclear arsenal could not destroy a single Chinese province. Your boasting regarding MAD is wasted.
> 
> The estimation of nuclear destructive power:
> 
> 1. Russia ~ 1,273 megaton
> 2. USA ~ 570 megaton
> 3. China ~ 294 megaton
> 4. France ~ 55 megaton
> 5. UK ~ 16 megaton
> 6. Israel ~ 1.5 - 4 megaton
> 7. India ~ 0.8 - 1 megaton
> 8. Pakistan ~ 0.6 - 1 megaton
> 9. North Korea ~ Unknown
> 
> Link: *NTI: Nuclear Disarmament*



what a crap ... bro... correct your facts...

first of all.. <15kt is enough to destroy entire city of size Beijing or shangai or hongkong or any major city like New york, moscow , islamabad or delhi..... 

secondly Megatons are created because of the CEP of the missile is not correct... if your have CEP less than km then a KT is enough for achieving the target... 

Thirdly dont assume india doesnt have megaton capability because most of the agni V is capable of carrying 1 MT war head or MIRV of several KT war heads.. so clearly it states India has the capability and India is least interested in having such a big war heads because of the accuracy of the missiles


----------



## HongWu

Karthic Sri said:


> For example the CEP of Agni 3 (which can comfortably reach Beijing or Shangai) is about 50 m.


This must come from the same source as saying Agni-I can be made ICBM if the payload is made lighter and Agni-MMCX follows Agni-VIII.


----------



## kingdurgaking

justanobserver said:


>



Wow our country is well distributed with power compared to other countries around


----------



## J - 50

HongWu said:


> Of course not, you are saying a 20 kt nuke can destroy a normal-sized city. I'm saying no.... Hiroshima / Nagasaki would not be considered "cities" today. They are only a few miles in diameter.
> 
> Beijing urban area is like what 60 km in diameter at least. Do the math as for how much you need.
> 
> *There is a reason why all the real superpowers have multimegaton thermonuclear weapons!!!*
> 
> 
> Not intentionally, but obviously relations will get really bad before India tries to attack Three Gorges. By the way, I'm saying this purely as hypothetical.... in reality India is far far away from that ability as Bangladesh Air Force is from air-strikes on New Delhi.


hey do you even know how many years will it take for rehabilitation of 100s of square kms around beijing when even .5 KT nuke is droped on it....

all the economic, social, political, military and communication set ups wont be manned for years ahead ..

a 50 MT nuke's fireball is around 3 kms,,, n total damage around 30 kms,,,
and radiations will be same... on till 35 years... even the wind that will take radiations across 100s of kms.... 



three gorges dam can be destroyed with conventional warhead mounted on
brahmos, agni 2, agni 3 ....


----------



## J - 50

kingdurgaking said:


> what a crap ... bro... correct your facts...
> 
> first of all.. <15kt is enough to destroy entire city of size Beijing or shangai or hongkong or any major city like New york, moscow , islamabad or delhi.....
> 
> secondly Megatons are created because of the CEP of the missile is not correct... if your have CEP less than km then a KT is enough for achieving the target...
> 
> Thirdly dont assume india doesnt have megaton capability because most of the agni V is capable of carrying 1 MT war head or MIRV of several KT war heads.. so clearly it states India has the capability and India is least interested in having such a big war heads because of the accuracy of the missiles


india during pokharan 2 tested a two stage thermonuclear device with a boosted fission primary, its yield was downgraded from 200 KT (theoretical) to 40 KT for test purposes.
....

so india does have high yielded fission bombs,,,,

n we are talking about just 20KT,,,,


----------



## HongWu

^ Sure.... I don't scoff at the stuff India buys but I sure scoff at the stuff Indian makes and exaggerates about

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## T90TankGuy

HongWu said:


> ^ Sure.... I don't scoff at the stuff India buys but I sure scoff at the stuff Indian makes and exaggerates about



son be honest , you have been reading Humphrey Hawksley..
i read that book he wrote a few years ago . piece of crap of the first order . in no way realistic ... like you


----------



## J - 50

HongWu said:


> ^ Sure.... I don't scoff at the stuff India buys but I sure scoff at the stuff Indian makes and exaggerates about


well all the world has doubt about chinese planes... still they are preparing for this threat,,

and regarding these Pakharan2 tests... do you think country who had exploded first nuke in 1974 wont be able to refine and design high yield nukes....

it was for test reduced to 40 kt but those falling on our enemies will be made to full yield capacity ... i belive around 200KT + ...


----------



## PurpleButcher

@ the thread starter
chal rehn dai jigar....


----------



## Jackdaws

What vivid imagination. I especially like India's racial colonial mindset - lol - given that India was a - err - a colonial power??? ha


----------



## Veeru

@ Thread starter

What a wet dream.

BTW, do the thread starter wanna say that after 2015 India will become invincible for china???????


----------



## Veeru

In case of full scale war India's hit list will have:

- Three Gorges Dam
- Guangzhou
- Shenzhen
- Hong Kong
- Shanghai
- Beijing
- Macau
- Tianjin
- Chengdu
- Hainan

apart from others


----------



## HongWu

Jackdaws said:


> What vivid imagination. I especially like India's racial colonial mindset - lol - given that India was a - err - a colonial power??? ha


It's kind of like Stockholm syndrome. A kind of mental slavery that makes them wish/think/feel/hope they are a colonialist. Because everyone knows Hindus are part of "the West."


----------



## J - 50

HongWu said:


> It's kind of like Stockholm syndrome. A kind of mental slavery that makes them wish/think/feel/hope they are a colonialist. Because everyone knows Hindus are part of "the West."


well its very funny you call india west ... when india is like a teacher to you ...

heard about

Budhaa ???

these ppl in dos time made thr religion around Budhaa ... and now they are lectring us on mind sets .. ..

it was chinese traveler first here to come india and learn from Indian civilization ... heard about Faxiang. ??? 

our civilization ruled ur thoughts 1000s years ago .... 

you so called chest thumping high IQ chinese ...


----------



## LaBong

HongWu said:


> It's kind of like Stockholm syndrome. A kind of mental slavery that makes them wish/think/feel/hope they are a colonialist. Because everyone knows Hindus are part of "the West."



Well I don't know about India, but it seems you're really suffering from the said syndrome and wants to pull off an imperial Japan. 

Better get some opium and give your brain a rest.


----------



## HongWu

J - 50 said:


> well its very funny you call india west ... when india is like a teacher to you ...
> 
> heard about
> 
> Budhaa ???


Heard of..... Nepal?



J - 50 said:


> these ppl in dos time made thr religion around Budhaa ... and now they are lectring us on mind sets .. ..
> 
> it was chinese traveler first here to come india and learn from Indian civilization ... heard about Faxiang. ???


India is not a continuous civilization. The people living in the subcontinent in those days are not the same as the Indians today. In fact, the Indians today conquered them. So you murdered my teacher / jk


----------



## J - 50

HongWu said:


> Heard of..... Nepal?
> 
> 
> India is not a continuous civilization. The people living in the subcontinent in those days are not the same as the Indians today. In fact, the Indians today conquered them. So you murdered my teacher / jk


what are you saying. ...?

we follow the same way of life... our books are the same... our system is the same... 

no one conquered no one ....

the moguls who came here were assimilated ...

our civilization - the way of life were never destroyed by the invaders ///

they themselves made india as thr home....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## J - 50

HongWu said:


> Heard of..... Nepal?
> 
> 
> India is not a continuous civilization. The people living in the subcontinent in those days are not the same as the Indians today. In fact, the Indians today conquered them. So you murdered my teacher / jk


nepal ... you are really comes in -ve IQ level ...

Born	c. 563 BCE or 623 BCE
Lumbini, today in Nepal --- nepal is a hindu nation... hey follow the same system ... heard about Gurkha's in Indian army ??

Died	c. 483 BCE or 543 BCE (aged 80)
Kushinagar, today in India ... 

today's india might not look the same but these all countries were once part of india
INCLUDING TIBBET


----------



## mautkimaut

MOds it is seriously time to close the thread now.It is down to severs now.Nobody is attacking no one people...Get war mongers out


----------



## faithfulguy

Man, I can't believe that you guys give HongWu creadibility by keeping on debating with him. If you guys believe the credibility of his article, then go ahead and respond to him. Otherwise, do a one post talking about how stupid is this posting and then ignore it. I cannot believe that there are almost 200 posts for a trolling article like this. Give you guys a hint, it this article is written in the Chinese, Pakistani or Turkish page, it won't receive over 2-3 pages of responses and it would end. Let this thread die.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## tallboy123

200 replies for Idiotic and troll thread 

*So when u guys have decided to start Second Indo-Chinese War..?*

HongWu finished his work and went away..
U guys are wasting u r time debating on this troll thread..


----------



## Bharatrox

closeeeeeed!!!!!
______________________________________________


----------



## IBRIS

OH, thread starting idiot with wet dreams needs to get laid, not invade.


----------



## PRACTICAL PATRIOT

its really disappointing to see such pure fanboy and immature stuff getting so many posts.
the quality of discussions here is getting degraded day by day with many fanboys and immature members increasing . the only solution to this is not to reply to this fanboy stuff. 
so i request all sane members to refrain from posting on such threads and to help maintaining respectable discussions.


----------



## Jackdaws

HongWu said:


> It's kind of like Stockholm syndrome. A kind of mental slavery that makes them wish/think/feel/hope they are a colonialist. Because everyone knows Hindus are part of "the West."



Yea, that is a perfect logical and rational explanation for - 

Non-Aligned Movement
Quit India Movement
Azad Hind Fauj
Bombay Mutiny
First War of Independence in 1857


----------



## CaptainPrice

I love it when people think things would go the way "they like"it to be.No one can predict it truely,Just admit it.


----------



## unicorn148

THE TREAD IS CLOSED NO MORE TROLLS......................


----------



## HongWu

Jackdaws said:


> Yea, that is a perfect logical and rational explanation for -
> 
> Non-Aligned Movement
> Quit India Movement
> Azad Hind Fauj
> Bombay Mutiny
> First War of Independence in 1857


There is an Indian left that is anti-colonialist. But these days the left is weak. The primary political vision in New Delhi is neo-colonial with USA in place of UK. The best example is your PM Singh.


----------



## ajtr

HongWu said:


> There is an Indian left that is anti-colonialist. But these days the left is weak. The primary political vision in New Delhi is neo-colonial with USA in place of UK. The best example is your PM Singh.


So true.....

1.USA realized that India is the best bet for countering China. It started multiples steps of programs. Fundamentally allow India to have nukes but only at a pace it needs to counter China. PM Manmohan singh is very quick in being aggressive against China in terms of rhetoric and also body language. However, when it comes to Pakistan he goes through Havana,Shraml-e-Sheikhs,Thimpu agreements.


----------



## redfox

Veeru said:


> In case of full scale war India's hit list will have:
> 
> - Three Gorges Dam
> - Guangzhou
> - Shenzhen
> - Hong Kong
> - Shanghai
> - Beijing
> - Macau
> - Tianjin
> - Chengdu
> - Hainan
> 
> apart from others



You warmogers are amazing. Reading thru the comments made, I would assume that you crave to see a day when your country takes on a big heavyweight. 

If nukes are your answers, I would say China's hit list would be all of India.

You would be back to stone age buddy! Be careful what you wish for.


----------



## GareebNawaz

redfox said:


> You warmogers are amazing. Reading thru the comments made, I would assume that you crave to see a day when your country takes on a big heavyweight.
> 
> If nukes are your answers, I would say China's hit list would be all of India.
> 
> You would be back to stone age buddy! Be careful what you wish for.



So what is your answer?


----------



## HongWu

ajtr said:


> So true.....
> 
> 1.USA realized that India is the best bet for countering China. It started multiples steps of programs. Fundamentally allow India to have nukes but only at a pace it needs to counter China. PM Manmohan singh is very quick in being aggressive against China in terms of rhetoric and also body language. However, when it comes to Pakistan he goes through Havana,Shraml-e-Sheikhs,Thimpu agreements.


That makes sense.

How long is PM Singh's term? He was re-elected in 2009. Does he step down by 2013? Or will can be re-elected? I've heard of Raul Gandhi as the next leader. Is he also very anti-China?


----------



## CardSharp

redfox said:


> You warmogers are amazing. Reading thru the comments made, I would assume that you crave to see a day when your country takes on a big heavyweight.
> 
> If nukes are your answers, I would say China's hit list would be all of India.
> 
> You would be back to stone age buddy! Be careful what you wish for.



Funny, their nuclear stockpile is composed of small fissile devices and their 6,000 km missile is still in testing, still they run their mouth.


----------



## HongWu

Troller said:


> So what is your answer?


The answer is the original post itself. The original post is how I expect China will deal with a hostile India. It ends with India losing a conventional war badly and then breaking up.


----------



## redfox

J - 50 said:


> well its very funny you call india west ... when india is like a teacher to you ...
> 
> heard about
> 
> Budhaa ???
> 
> these ppl in dos time made thr religion around Budhaa ... and now they are lectring us on mind sets .. ..
> 
> it was chinese traveler first here to come india and learn from Indian civilization ... heard about Faxiang. ???
> 
> our civilization ruled ur thoughts 1000s years ago ....
> 
> you so called chest thumping high IQ chinese ...



No, I haven't heard of it coming from India. But have your heard of elephant being God? But that is base on my mind sets...


----------



## ajtr

HongWu said:


> That makes sense.
> 
> How long is PM Singh's term? He was re-elected in 2009. Does he step down by 2013? Or will can be re-elected? I've heard of Raul Gandhi as the next leader. Is he also very anti-China?


2014 will 've next general elections.I wont think before 2014 he will step down.even if he steps down or some other party comes to power its relation with usa will remain same as it is now.


----------



## unicorn148

@ajtr
No need to give a reply to a person whose IQ is below ZERO its just a waste of your time and this thread is just a bullshit 

THIS THREAD IS CLOSED


----------



## ganimi kawa

CardSharp said:


> *Funny, their nuclear stockpile is composed of small fissile devices *and their 6,000 km missile is still in testing, still they run their mouth.



I wouldn't be sure of the first part. Indians are as secretive about their nuclear program as any chinese high level defence project. Expect similar surprises.

*I'm astonished that very few posters, if any mentioned the delivery systems before this. That indeed is India's achilles heel.*

Considering that we declared "no first use" policy only a decade ago, there has been some substantial progress towards achieving an operational nuke triad. Though deficiencies still exist.

With the successful testing of K4 SLBM last year and expected launch of Agni V this year, we are on the right track.Maybe, something like the french ASMP-A will complete the picture as I don't think air launched brahmos will have a nuke warhead. By around 2015, we will have the required deterrance in place.

All this with respect to China only, for Pakistan we have more than enough!


----------



## HongWu

ajtr said:


> 2014 will 've next general elections.I wont think before 2014 he will step down.even if he steps down or some other party comes to power its relation with usa will remain same as it is now.


Once India gets delivery of MMRCA, M777 and Apache, do you think PM Singh will do another "forward policy"? For example, declare that PLA has been violating the LAC and ordering the Indian army to expel them from Indian-side of LAC?


----------



## deep.ocean

Hey guys here you can read full stories on India China future wars with more thrills...
Bharat Rakshak &bull; View topic - Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII


----------



## Gabbar

*HongWu what kind of discusion were you expectin from this kind of thread? This thread is BS at best. What is most amazing is that senior members are also falling for this, you guys should know more.*


----------



## CardSharp

ganimi kawa said:


> I wouldn't be sure of the first part. Indians are as secretive about their nuclear program as any chinese high level defence project. Expect similar surprises.
> 
> *I'm astonished that very few posters, if any mentioned the delivery systems before this. That indeed is India's achilles heel.*
> 
> Considering that we declared "no first use" policy only a decade ago, there has been some substantial progress towards achieving an operational nuke triad. Though deficiencies still exist.
> 
> With the successful testing of K4 SLBM last year and expected launch of Agni V this year, we are on the right track.Maybe, something like the french ASMP-A will complete the picture as I don't think air launched brahmos will have a nuke warhead. By around 2015, we will have the required deterrance in place.
> 
> All this with respect to China only, for Pakistan we have more than enough!



With all due respect, I base my comment on the yields of the 6 Indian nuclear tests. It is unlikely that India will deliver a bomb design that has not been tested and if that is that case the bombs would be in the Hiroshima energy range. Pin pricks in terms of modern stockpile.


----------



## J - 50

CardSharp said:


> With all due respect, I base my comment on the yields of the 6 Indian nuclear tests. It is unlikely that India will deliver a bomb design that has not been tested and if that is that case the bombs would be in the Hiroshima energy range. Pin pricks in terms of modern stockpile.


than Israel will never fire back her Nukes coz they never tested them...

in my view ...the data provided from Pokhran II can be feeded in Super Comp. 
and high yield Fission bombs can be simulated ..

like 40KTnuke data could be feeded for a 400 KT or 4MT bomb ...
and india is a advance nation in computing terms ...

right now all other advance nations like

us, china, russia, israel will be simulating tactical and strategic nukes in thr super comps ...

india has no first nuke policy ..

but if attacked first ...

india should reply with all high yield it can on the enemy...


----------



## my name is arya

message for china 


lets do it and we will show you result 

guys dont waste time here on thread the thread has no logic so dont waste your time 

we would lke to see china on ground face to face 

har pal jan hatli par le kar jiti hai hum kya himat kisi ki jo mere desh ko buri nazar se dekhe jai hind


----------



## redfox

Troller said:


> So what is your answer?



I don't wish for war, never in my lifetime. I know that our natural resourses can only be limited. In times for growth and prosperity for any counrty, the hopes would only a be balance one. 

Peace can only be the answer.


----------



## HongWu

my name is arya said:


> message for china
> 
> 
> lets do it and we will show you result
> 
> guys dont waste time here on thread the thread has no logic so dont waste your time
> 
> we would lke to see china on ground face to face
> 
> har pal jan hatli par le kar jiti hai hum kya himat kisi ki jo mere desh ko buri nazar se dekhe jai hind


I look forward to that. Once India is broken down into little countries, then Pakistan can start treating the little Hindu countries like how big India treat them.


----------



## HongWu

J - 50 said:


> than Israel will never fire back her Nukes coz they never tested them...


First, it has Jewish-American scientists. Second, there was a suspected test in 1979.

India has never successfully tested a thermonuclear weapon. The last attempt failed.


----------



## J - 50

HongWu said:


> I look forward to that. Once India is broken down into little countries, then Pakistan can start treating the little Hindu countries like how big India treat them.


yaa we indians are waiting ,,, 

for china ... and whoever joins them ,,,

The Indian Army is the world&#8217;s second largest army in terms of military personnel, *and the largest in terms of active manpower.*


the planet will see the biggest Army in its history ,,, 

millions of young men will voluntarily joins the armed forces ... 

to teach BULLY china a lesson ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

my name is arya said:


> we would lke to see china on ground face to face



We already did in 1962. Indians have not beaten a non-subcontinent army in 2000 years. I see little reason why this would change.

Jai Hind.


----------



## HongWu

J - 50 said:


> yaa we indians are waiting ,,,
> 
> for china ... and whoever joins them ,,,
> 
> The Indian Army is the worlds second largest army in terms of military personnel, *and the largest in terms of active manpower.*
> 
> 
> the planet will see the biggest Army in its history ,,,
> 
> millions of young men will voluntarily joins the armed forces ...
> 
> to teach BULLY china a lesson ...


India has more manpower than China even because of youthful demographics. But there is no match really. India is 1/4 of China's economy (maybe even lower) and its indigenous technology is a joke. The only thing it has going for it is constant flattery from the West and shiny new weapons from the West.


----------



## J - 50

CardSharp said:


> We already did in 1962. Indians have not beaten a non-subcontinent army in 2000 years. I see little reason why this would change.
> 
> Jai Hind.


well chinese already know that in 1962 ...

Nehru was planning to reduce the size of army to 50000

and our military industries were manufacturing
pressure cookers ....

time has changed my friend. ..
indians are not indians of 1962 ...

a single call from our govt. to our population and you have millions of young men waiting on your borders for a chance to serve our motherland ...

regarding indians never defeated any non sub cont army brush up ur facts ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

CardSharp said:


> We already did in 1962. Indians have not beaten a non-subcontinent army in 2000 years. I see little reason why this would change.
> 
> Jai Hind.


I'm so afraid of Bharat and their future hyperpower.


----------



## J - 50

HongWu said:


> India has more manpower than China even because of youthful demographics. But there is no match really. India is 1/4 of China's economy (maybe even lower) and its indigenous technology is a joke. The only thing it has going for it is constant flattery from the West and shiny new weapons from the West.


yes we are a smaller economy...

but in case of war ... 

you have to consider ....

you oil shipments ... your shipping lines ... goes from indian ocean ...

it will be a massacre for chinese navy in indian ocean.... 
your economy lines will be cut into half before the war starts ..

and other facter is

HIMALAYAS ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## redfox

J - 50 said:


> yaa we indians are waiting ,,,
> 
> for china ... and whoever joins them ,,,
> 
> The Indian Army is the worlds second largest army in terms of military personnel, *and the largest in terms of active manpower.*
> 
> 
> the planet will see the biggest Army in its history ,,,
> 
> millions of young men will voluntarily joins the armed forces ...
> 
> to teach BULLY china a lesson ...



Oh yes, I heard this before. The second superpower of the world! Destrustion will come to all that don't believe. Flying tandoori chicken's nuclear droppings coming accross China as we speak!


----------



## J - 50

HongWu said:


> I'm so afraid of Bharat and their future hyperpower.


yes you should be afraid very afraid.... 

whoever attacks India now will be brought down ...

any aggressor will be dealt with all our power ...


----------



## GORKHALI

HongWu said:


> I look forward to that. Once India is broken down into little countries, then Pakistan can start treating the little Hindu countries like how big India treat them.



I smell a non chinese and follower of prophet M here,any1 else plz drop your thanks here lol...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sajan

Nice article HongWu. You have good imagination and writing skills. Well if you try to improve in adding some more fictions ,fantasies and elaborate it like a novel it will be a nice read. All the best mate..!


----------



## Vishwa

Bullshit article 
I wana abuse the guy who posted this Article ..

Close The Thread!!!!

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


----------



## kingdurgaking

HongWu said:


> India has more manpower than China even because of youthful demographics. But there is no match really. India is 1/4 of China's economy (maybe even lower) and its indigenous technology is a joke. The only thing it has going for it is constant flattery from the West and shiny new weapons from the West.



I guess you should keep aside your patriotism and see doctrines in case of war... because it is not manpower or technology that is going to win but planning and strategy assaults that is going to win .... India has to learn the unforeseen attacks that PLA can inflict on us as they did in 1962... if we are prepared for that and if we have strategies deployed however you try however you cant win a war... because *Incase of war* between India and China it will not be for months or not even for weeks ... it will be only for few days because of the pressure international community will exert on us... because a major war will wipe billions of people from the planet which will have major economic impact on the whole world ... which will bring several countries to bankruptcy ultimately a 3rd world war will happen... so incase sino-indo war happens for say more than a week it will be time for 3rd world war

Secondly on defence purchase
There are two ways you should look into a defence purchase ... developing countries like India which has a modest money will be careful on defence spending.. So we will have a mix of foreign purchase and indigenous effort for next 1.5 decade if our economy grows in the pace and then we will be catching up .. As of now our strategy is correct on defence spending.. If you are economist you can understand how money values.. because the money spend on R&D and infrastructure will yield returns only if you have an prospect export... which China does with Pakistan .... Indian economy depends equally on consumption so if we invest on these infra we will end in negative earnings ... instead it is viable to buy foreign goods ... 

means You have to see where money consumption is less for x yrs...
Unlike China which got less options because of ban it was forced to develop on its own... which is good on long term... which is not affordable for country like India which has got options.. i hope you understand a little bit...

You cant always be correct on all analysis .. Your analysis on your economy can be correct but it cant be the same for India... US economy works on different way..


----------



## TenjikuKensei

CardSharp said:


> We already did in 1962. Indians have not beaten a non-subcontinent army in 2000 years. I see little reason why this would change.
> 
> Jai Hind.



Not really. The Cholas beat quite a lot of SEA armies during their time...especially the SriVijayan Empire that held sway over that region..In fact the SriVijaya empire ceased to exist after their defeat by the Cholas.

As for 1962, sure it was a loss, but my research tells me that China would not have been able to hold onto the territory it took. The "unilateral" Chinese withdrawal would have happened anyways when the supplies to sustain combat operations ground to a halt(as they would have been if the war continued on for a few more weeks in that sector...sure some supplies would have made it through..but definitely not enough to sustain combat footing...not even close.). Correct me if I'm wrong, but at most the Chinese forces had a few more weeks of combat supplies left by the time they withdrew. This is further supported by some Chinese accounts of how hard it was for them to bring up supplies to prepare for the 1962 offensive. To have tried to hold the ground taken would have been military suicide, and I suspect the Chinese generals knew that very well.

An army marches on its stomach and if not for the unilateral withdrawal, the PLA forces would have been forced to withdraw anyways..and this time under enemy pressure and lack of supplies. The Chinese generals were smart to withdraw when they did. Ultimately imo the 1962 expedition resulted in no net Chinese gains(again correct me here if i left something out). No land gain...no agreement on subject of the disputed land either. 

No one gainsays that the 1962 offensive was a successful one,,but only till it lasted.It is akin to starting a game and declaring it over unilaterally when the initial beginners/headstart advantage ceases to exist.

The 1962 Chinese offensive is analogous to the medieval era Cavalry Charges which mostly hinged on the initial damage done by a cavalry charge.Any extended melee battle of Cavalry vs heavy infantry would have resulted in the expensive Cavalry units whittled down. Thus the most common cavalry tactic during the middle ages(and even later in the Napoleonic wars) was to charge and then withdraw when the initial momentum has been lost.They would charge again later when and if battlefield situations permit. A common rule of thumb about cavalry charges is that 80&#37; of the damage is done during the initial charge..afterward the damage dealt peters out to almost nothing. In this particular case, the Cavalry would not have been able to continue to charge cos it would not have been able to receive reinforcements/supplies.

If you do believe that the PLA could have held on to the land gained during the 1962 offensive, especially when a corps worth of Indian Army units approaching the theater, along with the newly arriving Foreign military aid, ill be most interested in hearing your argument as to how it could have been done. So basing an argument on a very limited conflict , imho seems like house built out of a deck of cards

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ganimi kawa

CardSharp said:


> With all due respect,* I base my comment on the yields of the 6 Indian nuclear tests.* It is unlikely that India will deliver a bomb design that has not been tested and if that is that case the bombs would be in the Hiroshima energy range. Pin pricks in terms of modern stockpile.



A 200 kt device (though for test purposes scaled to 40kt) should be more than a pin prick, especially with MIRV tech (being developed for Agni V and perhaps K4) 

Also note the technologies that were tested in pokharan II, that leaves little doubt in mind about what india was trying to achieve.

*A two stage thermonuclear device ( with a boosted fission primary)

A boosted fission device (primary stage)

A pure fission warhead (modified by simulations with earlier test data)

Two sub kiloton devices (one with U233) for gathering data for future simulations.
*

Looking only at the 3 subkiloton yields and assessing Indian nukes would not be a correct thing to do.

Though "Not tested enough" is a tag that indian nukes will have to carry. I wish we could conduct a few more tests but that is impossible in the current scenario.


----------



## justanobserver

TenjikuKensei said:


> Not really. The Cholas beat quite a lot of SEA armies during their time...especially the SriVijayan Empire that held sway over that region..In fact the SriVijaya empire ceased to exist after their defeat by the Cholas.
> 
> As for 1962, sure it was a loss, but my research tells me that China would not have been able to hold onto the territory it took. The "unilateral" Chinese withdrawal would have happened anyways when the supplies to sustain combat operations ground to a halt(as they would have been if the war continued on for a few more weeks in that sector...sure some supplies would have made it through..but definitely not enough to sustain combat footing...not even close.). Correct me if I'm wrong, but at most the Chinese forces had a few more weeks of combat supplies left by the time they withdrew. This is further supported by some Chinese accounts of how hard it was for them to bring up supplies to prepare for the 1962 offensive. To have tried to hold the ground taken would have been military suicide, and I suspect the Chinese generals knew that very well.
> 
> An army marches on its stomach and if not for the unilateral withdrawal, the PLA forces would have been forced to withdraw anyways..and this time under enemy pressure and lack of supplies. The Chinese generals were smart to withdraw when they did. Ultimately imo the 1962 expedition resulted in no net Chinese gains(again correct me here if i left something out). No land gain...no agreement on subject of the disputed land either.
> 
> No one gainsays that the 1962 offensive was a successful one,,but only till it lasted.It is akin to starting a game and declaring it over unilaterally when the initial beginners/headstart advantage ceases to exist.
> 
> The 1962 Chinese offensive is analogous to the medieval era Cavalry Charges which mostly hinged on the initial damage done by a cavalry charge.Any extended melee battle of Cavalry vs heavy infantry would have resulted in the expensive Cavalry units whittled down. Thus the most common cavalry tactic during the middle ages(and even later in the Napoleonic wars) was to charge and then withdraw when the initial momentum has been lost.They would charge again later when and if battlefield situations permit. A common rule of thumb about cavalry charges is that 80&#37; of the damage is done during the initial charge..afterward the damage dealt peters out to almost nothing. In this particular case, the Cavalry would not have been able to continue to charge cos it would not have been able to receive reinforcements/supplies.
> 
> If you do believe that the PLA could have held on to the land gained during the 1962 offensive, especially when a corps worth of Indian Army units approaching the theater, along with the newly arriving Foreign military aid, ill be most interested in hearing your argument as to how it could have been done. So basing an argument on a very limited conflict , imho seems like house built out of a deck of cards



Oh why do you even bother ? 

1. Crazy warmonger India invaded China
2. China successfully deterred this blatant act of imperialism and even managed to capture huge swathes of territory 
3. Then as a gesture of goodwill, the mighty dragon gifted that territory back to India

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## somebozo

If indian won the war they wouldn't have all sort of empires invading them and taking a piece of them to rule while transferring riches back to their homeland..The Aryans, Persian, Arabs, mongols, Turks, British, Dutch, Portuguese and few other held sizable territories in India..

Now i bet some one will point out that they came in with welcoming attitude and contributed a lot to "shining India" and indianized.


----------



## kingdurgaking

somebozo said:


> If indian won the war they wouldn't have all sort of empires invading them and taking a piece of them to rule while transferring riches back to their homeland..The Aryans, Persian, Arabs, mongols, Turks, British, Dutch, Portuguese and few other held sizable territories in India..
> 
> Now i bet some one will point out that they came in with welcoming attitude and contributed a lot to "shining India" and indianized.



How ever wealth has been stolen ... our human wealth still remains intact ... which is now opening path for greater *united* India in which many countries are interested .. dont you agree??


----------



## justanobserver

somebozo said:


> If indian won the war they wouldn't have all sort of empires invading them and taking a piece of them to rule while transferring riches back to their homeland..The Aryans, Persian, Arabs, mongols, Turks, British, Dutch, Portuguese and few other held sizable territories in India..
> 
> Now i bet some one will point out that they came in with welcoming attitude and contributed a lot to "shining India" and indianized.



&#2351;&#2369;&#2344;&#2366;&#2344;-&#2323;-&#2350;&#2367;&#2360;&#2381;&#2352;-&#2323;-&#2352;&#2379;&#2350;&#2366; &#2360;&#2348; &#2350;&#2367;&#2335; &#2327;&#2319; &#2332;&#2361;&#2366;&#2305; &#2360;&#2375; &#2404;
&#2309;&#2348; &#2340;&#2325; &#2350;&#2327;&#2352; &#2361;&#2376; &#2348;&#2366;&#2306;&#2325;&#2368; &#2344;&#2366;&#2350;&#2379;-&#2344;&#2367;&#2358;&#2366;&#2344; &#2361;&#2350;&#2366;&#2352;&#2366; &#2405;&#2412;&#2405;


----------



## CardSharp

TenjikuKensei said:


> Not really. The Cholas beat quite a lot of SEA armies during their time...especially the SriVijayan Empire that held sway over that region..In fact the SriVijaya empire ceased to exist after their defeat by the Cholas.
> 
> As for 1962, sure it was a loss, but my research tells me that China would not have been able to hold onto the territory it took. The "unilateral" Chinese withdrawal would have happened anyways when the supplies to sustain combat operations ground to a halt(as they would have been if the war continued on for a few more weeks in that sector...sure some supplies would have made it through..but definitely not enough to sustain combat footing...not even close.). Correct me if I'm wrong, but at most the Chinese forces had a few more weeks of combat supplies left by the time they withdrew. This is further supported by some Chinese accounts of how hard it was for them to bring up supplies to prepare for the 1962 offensive. To have tried to hold the ground taken would have been military suicide, and I suspect the Chinese generals knew that very well.
> 
> An army marches on its stomach and if not for the unilateral withdrawal, the PLA forces would have been forced to withdraw anyways..and this time under enemy pressure and lack of supplies. The Chinese generals were smart to withdraw when they did. Ultimately imo the 1962 expedition resulted in no net Chinese gains(again correct me here if i left something out). No land gain...no agreement on subject of the disputed land either.
> 
> No one gainsays that the 1962 offensive was a successful one,,but only till it lasted.It is akin to starting a game and declaring it over unilaterally when the initial beginners/headstart advantage ceases to exist.
> 
> The 1962 Chinese offensive is analogous to the medieval era Cavalry Charges which mostly hinged on the initial damage done by a cavalry charge.Any extended melee battle of Cavalry vs heavy infantry would have resulted in the expensive Cavalry units whittled down. Thus the most common cavalry tactic during the middle ages(and even later in the Napoleonic wars) was to charge and then withdraw when the initial momentum has been lost.They would charge again later when and if battlefield situations permit. A common rule of thumb about cavalry charges is that 80% of the damage is done during the initial charge..afterward the damage dealt peters out to almost nothing. In this particular case, the Cavalry would not have been able to continue to charge cos it would not have been able to receive reinforcements/supplies.
> 
> If you do believe that the PLA could have held on to the land gained during the 1962 offensive, especially when a corps worth of Indian Army units approaching the theater, along with the newly arriving Foreign military aid, ill be most interested in hearing your argument as to how it could have been done. So basing an argument on a very limited conflict , imho seems like house built out of a deck of cards



the 2000 year remark is not my assertion but merely a statement I came across made by an Indian officer who wrote about 1962. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...cious-action-pla-lessons-sino-indian-war.html 

it's in there somewhere. 


and as for the rest about 1962, it's best to deal with facts and details instead of drawing analogies between the PLA offensive and cavalry charges. 


Here is a Times report of the period (as an interesting aside, note the use of Red China and the casual racism). They have the situation down. 



> Red China behaved in so inscrutably Oriental a manner last week that even Asians were baffled. After a series of smashing victories in the border war with India. Chinese troops swept down from the towering Himalayas and were poised at the edge of the fertile plains of Assam, whose jute and tea plantations account for one-fourth of Indias export trade. Then, with Assam lying defenseless before her conquering army. Red China suddenly called a halt to the fighting.
> 
> Radio Peking announced that, on its own initiative. Red China was ordering a cease-fire on all fronts. Further, by Dec. 1, Chinese troops would retire to positions 12½ miles behind the lines they occupied on Nov. 7. 1959. If this promise is actually carried out. it would mean, for some Chinese units, a pullback of more than 60 miles. These decisions. Peking continued, represent a most sincere effort to achieve a speedy termination of the Sino-Indian conflict, a reopening of peaceful negotiations, and a peaceful settlement of the boundary question. War or peace, the message concluded, depends on whether or not the Indian government responds positively.
> 
> In New Delhi the government of Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru was taken completely by surprise. An Indian spokesman first denounced the Chinese offer as a diabolical maneuver. which was later amended to the comment that India would wait and see exactly what the Chinese were proposing. A communique confirmed that, after the cease-fire deadline, there had been no report of firing by the Chinese aggressors. Indian troops also stopped shooting, but Nehru warned India: We must not imagine that the struggle will soon be over.
> 
> *On closer examination, the Chinese cease-fire proved to be a lot less mysterious. It did offer Indias battered armies a badly needed respite. But it left the Chinese armies in position to resume their offensive if Nehru refuses the Peking terms. And it puts on India the onus of continuing the war. Said the Hindustan Times: The latest Chinese proposals are not a peace offer but an ultimatum.
> *
> Whatever the results of this peace bid tendered on a bayonet, India will never be the same again, nor will Nehru.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CardSharp

You may find this illuminating

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

justanobserver said:


> Oh why do you even bother ?
> 
> 1. Crazy warmonger India invaded China
> 2. China successfully deterred this blatant act of imperialism and even managed to capture huge swathes of territory
> 3. Then as a gesture of goodwill, the mighty dragon gifted that territory back to India



Read the times report. You can put words in people's mouth but is what you believe really grounded? Imaginary double division under whose threat the PLA withdrew?


----------



## justanobserver

CardSharp said:


> Read the times report. You can put words in people's mouth but is what you believe really grounded?






> Barren Rock. In New Delhi illusions are dying fast. *Gone is the belief that Chinese expansionism need not be taken seriously*, that, in Nehru's words, China could not really want to wage a major war for "barren rock." Going too, is the conviction that the Soviet Union has either the authority or the will to restrain the Chinese Communists. Nehru's policy of nonalignment, which was intended to free India from any concern with the cold war between the West and Communism, was ending in disaster.* Nearly shattered was the morally arrogant pose from which he had endlessly lectured the West on the need for peaceful coexistence with Communism. Above all. the Indian people, fiercely proud of their nationhood, have been deeply humiliated and shaken by the hated Chinese.*
> 
> Read more: India: Never Again the Same - TIME



It seems we got *back-stabbed* !


----------



## CardSharp

ganimi kawa said:


> A 200 kt device (though for test purposes scaled to 40kt) should be more than a pin prick, especially with MIRV tech (being developed for Agni V and perhaps K4)
> 
> Also note the technologies that were tested in pokharan II, that leaves little doubt in mind about what india was trying to achieve.
> 
> *A two stage thermonuclear device ( with a boosted fission primary)
> 
> A boosted fission device (primary stage)
> 
> A pure fission warhead (modified by simulations with earlier test data)
> 
> Two sub kiloton devices (one with U233) for gathering data for future simulations.
> *
> 
> Looking only at the 3 subkiloton yields and assessing Indian nukes would not be a correct thing to do.
> 
> Though "Not tested enough" is a tag that indian nukes will have to carry. I wish we could conduct a few more tests but that is impossible in the current scenario.



I can only go on information sourced to my satisfaction. It may be that due to the secret nature of such weapons I am under-estimating India's nuclear capabilities but thus far India has not achieve the stockpile necessary to destroy, the three gorges dam, Hainan, Guangzhou provinces and Tianjin, Beijing etc as have been claimed by Indians here. 


From the federation of American scientists.




> Testing
> 
> After 24 years without testing India resumed nuclear testing with a series of nuclear explosions known as "Operation Shatki." Prime Minister Vajpayee authorized the tests on April 8, 1998, two days after the Ghauri missile test-firing in Pakistan.
> 
> On May 11, 1998, India tested three devices at the Pokhran underground testing site, followed by two more tests on May 13, 1998. The nuclear tests carried out at 3:45 pm on May 11th were claimed by the Indian government to be a simultaneous detonation of three different devices - a fission device with a yield of about 12 kilotons (KT), a thermonuclear device with a yield of about 43 KT, and a sub-kiloton device. The two tests carried out at 12:21 pm on May 13th were also detonated simultaneously with reported yields in the range of 0.2 to 0.6 KT.
> 
> However, there is some controversy about these claims. Based on seismic data, U.S. government sources and independent experts estimated the yield of the so-called thermonuclear test in the range of 12-25 kilotons, as opposed to the 43-60 kiloton yield claimed by India. This lower yield raised skepticism about India's claims to have detonated a thermonuclear device.
> 
> Observers initially suggested that the test could have been a boosted fission device, rather than a true multi-stage thermonuclear device. By late 1998 analysts at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory had concluded that the India had attempted to detonate a thermonuclear device, but that the second stage of the two-stage bomb failed to ignite as planned.


----------



## CardSharp

justanobserver said:


> It seems we got *back-stabbed* !



Those were the McCarthy days, believe what you like about backstabbing etc. You won't suffer for lack of company. The points relevant to were introduced for purpose of discussion. It's a long article.


----------



## LaBong

CardSharp said:


> I can only go on information sourced to my satisfaction. It may be that due to the secret nature of such weapons I am under-estimating India's nuclear capabilities but thus far India has not achieve the stockpile necessary to destroy, the three gorges dam, Hainan, Guangzhou provinces and Tianjin, Beijing etc as have been claimed by Indians here.
> 
> 
> From the federation of American scientists.



_Some sources estimated that by the year 2000, India's stockpile of weapons grade plutonium could rise to 450 kg. This plutonium stockpile was projected by the same conservative assumptions to reach a level equivalent to 85 to 90 weapons by the year 2000.* By another estimate, India easily could have accumulated plutonium from the CIRUS and Dhruva reactors for about 133 weapons by 2000, with the rate of increase from these facilities of nearly 7 weapons annually*_

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2001/south_asia.pdf


----------



## LaBong

> &#8220;The May 1998 tests were fully successful in terms of achieving their scientific objectives and the capability to build fission and thermonuclear weapons with yields up to 200 kilotons,&#8221; said R Chidambaram, the government&#8217;s principal scientific adviser and former chief of the Atomic Energy Commission.



FT.com / Asia-Pacific / India - India raises nuclear stakes


----------



## KS

Abir said:


> _Some sources estimated that by the year 2000, India's stockpile of weapons grade plutonium could rise to 450 kg. This plutonium stockpile was projected by the same conservative assumptions to reach a level equivalent to 85 to 90 weapons by the year 2000.* By another estimate, India easily could have accumulated plutonium from the CIRUS and Dhruva reactors for about 133 weapons by 2000, with the rate of increase from these facilities of nearly 7 weapons annually*_
> 
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2001/south_asia.pdf



Think about it...this was during the time we had to balance our fuel for civilian as well as for military purposes.

Now that we have a free pass in the form of civilian nuke deal, the weapon producing capability may have increased manifolds with about 7 plants dedicated only for military use.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

justanobserver said:


> It seems we got *back-stabbed* !



Actually it was India who backstabbed China. 

India hosted the Tibetan government in exile, immediately after they failed to overthrow the Chinese government in *1959*. India hosted our biggest separatist group on their soil, while continuing to sing the fake "Hindi Chini bhai bhai" song.

Then came Nehru's forward policy in *1962*, leading to the Sino-Indian war.

Then after that of course, Sino-Pakistani relations became much stronger, partially as a countermeasure to our mutual rival. Now the relationship has become much stronger and more strategic.

India created enemies out of its two biggest neighbours. Not very clever.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## justanobserver

Chinese-Dragon said:


> It seems we got back-stabbed !
> Actually it was India who backstabbed China.
> 
> India hosted the Tibetan government in exile, immediately after they failed to overthrow the Chinese government in 1959. All




I was merely commenting on a certain TIME magazine article, posted by a fellow Chinese member with regards to the 1962 wars



> Barren Rock. In New Delhi illusions are dying fast. *Gone is the belief that Chinese expansionism need not be taken seriously*, that, in Nehru's words, China could not really want to wage a major war for "barren rock." Going too, is the conviction that the Soviet Union has either the authority or the will to restrain the Chinese Communists. Nehru's policy of nonalignment, which was intended to free India from any concern with the cold war between the West and Communism, was ending in disaster.* Nearly shattered was the morally arrogant pose from which he had endlessly lectured the West on the need for peaceful coexistence with Communism*.
> 
> India: Never Again the Same - TIME



Its seems that the big bad commies *backstabbed* us right?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

CardSharp said:


> *Here is a Times report of the period (as an interesting aside, note the use of Red China and the casual racism). They have the situation down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red China behaved in so inscrutably Oriental a manner last week that even Asians were baffled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *



Those "Red Chinese" are also "inscrutable Orientals"! 

I guess they can't say that anymore, otherwise they would piss off all the other East Asians as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LaBong

Karthic Sri said:


> Think about it...this was during the time we had to balance our fuel for civilian as well as for military purposes.
> 
> Now that we have a free pass in the form of civilian nuke deal, the weapon producing capability may have increased manifolds with about 7 plants dedicated only for military use.



Also consider fast breeder with thorium-232. Building a large stockpile never is a problem to India, it all depends on threat perception.


----------



## LaBong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> India created enemies out of its two biggest neighbours. Not very clever.



And Chinese created enemies at all directions. Not very clever of them either.


----------



## Vishwa

CardSharp said:


> I can only go on information sourced to my satisfaction. It may be that due to the secret nature of such weapons I am under-estimating India's nuclear capabilities but thus far India has not achieve the stockpile necessary to destroy, the three gorges dam, Hainan, Guangzhou provinces and Tianjin, Beijing etc as have been claimed by Indians here.
> 
> 
> From the federation of American scientists.





If Americans and world knew everything about our stockpile, they would have not asked us to sign 123 and safeguards agreement, NPT and all that. May be we have less or may be we have sufficient or may be we have a lot. As far as I know A single 50kT bomb is quite devastating. Plus we have the only lone reactor in the world *based on Thorium* so we can make bombs out of Thorium, how many well what ever can be done with 1/4th of the total reserves of the world.

plus this thread is ****, I am only going to discuss about our nuclear capability or something knowledgeable.


----------



## justanobserver

Abir said:


> And Chinese created enemies at all directions. Not very clever of them either.





The "Western Imperialists" (and their lackeys) are not the whole world !

The whole world includes Pakistan and North Korea too you know


----------



## somebozo

Abir said:


> And Chinese created enemies at all directions. Not very clever of them either.



Name a few??

Taiwan is on support of China despite few skirmishes and so is rest of South-East asia dominated by different ethnics of "China men". Pakistan will come out in support and so will Sri Lanka..Russia is likely to remain neutral and the Arabs may remain silent while channels support through secret corridors in Pakistan. The only direction China is going to war is with India if interference in Tibet does not stop!


----------



## kingdurgaking

Abir said:


> Also consider fast breeder with thorium-232. Building a large stockpile never is a problem to India, it all depends on threat perception.



I think keeping aside this Nuke attack which has a 1 th of a million chance... considering the good leadership of the countries.. it is going to be conventional war fare.... 
Other possibility is a two front war fare with Pakistan joining China... So J&K will become a huge battle ground again.. but i doubt we will loose the battle this time.. we should be able to successfully deter any aggression considering the surveillance we are actively carrying out to study the enemy territory which we lacked till early 90's .. i guess even till the late 20st century ..


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Abir said:


> And Chinese created enemies at all directions. Not very clever of them either.



Actually, we have a good relationship with Russia, Pakistan, Khazakhstan, Kyrguzstan, Tajikistan, Nepal, Burma, Bangladesh, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos... all our land neighbours.

The only land dispute that China still has, is with India. 

We have very strong economic relationships with the USA, the EU, Japan, South Korea, the Middle East, Africa... etc.

Now let's look at India's neighbours. Pakistan/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka/Burma/Nepal, and of course, China.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Brotherhood

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Actually it was India who backstabbed China.
> 
> India hosted the Tibetan government in exile, immediately after they failed to overthrow the Chinese government in *1959*. India hosted our biggest separatist group on their soil, while continuing to sing the fake "Hindi Chini bhai bhai" song.
> 
> Then came Nehru's forward policy in *1962*, leading to the Sino-Indian war.
> 
> Then after that of course, Sino-Pakistani relations became much stronger, partially as a countermeasure to our mutual rival. Now the relationship has become much stronger and more strategic.
> 
> India created enemies out of its two biggest neighbours. Not very clever.




CD, Its pretty easy to prove who was the backstabber in 1962 cake walk, just check out the "Henderson.Brooks Report", Oh wait its "TOP SECRET" highest level of confidential documents even after half a century? 

Anthony responded that the form of a written answer, for the 1962 border conflict between India and China failed in India because the investigation, "Henderson. Brooks Report" is the highest level of confidential documents. When asked the reason is not suitable for public, he said, "This survey was conducted within the army in India, the content is extremely sensitive, but still have the real reference, not suitable for release to the outside world."

"The Times of India", said a few years ago, India an independent committee strongly urged the Government to participate in the war history of India made public, so that the Indian people to know the truth.
the Chinese border

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Also Abir, I note that you avoided the point of my original post, about the backstabbing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kingdurgaking

somebozo said:


> Name a few??
> 
> Taiwan is on support of China despite few skirmishes and so is rest of South-East asia dominated by different ethnics of "China men".



what about japan ? Taiwan is a major confrontational area though you can assume so... They have issue with Russia, India, every where... even they had issue with Pakistan but Pakistan donated there precious land to become there friend... 

China has issue every where dude... The most sensitive being India and Taiwan


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

kingdurgaking said:


> what about japan ? Taiwan is a major confrontational area though you can assume so... They have issue with Russia, India, every where... even they had issue with Pakistan but Pakistan donated there precious land to become there friend...
> 
> China has issue every where dude... The most sensitive being India and Taiwan



China-Japan bilateral trade is in the hundreds of billions. In fact they are our second largest trading partner.

No chance of war with Japan in the near future.  Their "pacifist constitution" and lack of nukes prevents them from being a real threat to the Chinese mainland. They need Chinese trade (and rare earth exports) to keep their GDP growth positive as well.

The most serious border dispute that China has, which actually has a chance of leading to war, is the one with India.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## LaBong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Actually, we have a good relationship with Russia, Pakistan, Khazakhstan, Kyrguzstan, Tajikistan, Nepal, Burma, Bangladesh, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos... all our land neighbours.
> 
> The only land dispute that China still has, is with India.
> 
> We have very strong economic relationships with the USA, the EU, Japan, South Korea, the Middle East, Africa... etc.
> 
> Now let's look at India's neighbours. Pakistan/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka/Burma/Nepal, and of course, China.



1. It's your general saying, not me. 

2. You have maritime dispute with many countries. 

3. We have strong economic relation with China as well. 

4. We haven't fought even a skirmish with any neighbours barring China and Pakistan. The war with China was fought 50 years ago.


----------



## LaBong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Also Abir, I note that you avoided the point of my original post, about the backstabbing.



Because I don't think anyone backstabbed anyone. Nehru did mistakes and suffered from that. India learned the lesson and applied in 71 with Pakistan. 

Also I don't think Chinese withdrawal was because of good-will.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Abir said:


> Because I don't think anyone backstabbed anyone. Nehru did mistakes and suffered from that. India learned the lesson and applied in 71 with Pakistan.
> 
> Also I don't think Chinese withdrawal was because of good-will.



I find it hard to understand what China did to India before 1959, that would cause India to host our largest separatist group on their soil, immediately after they failed to overthrow the Chinese government. And India continued to host them for over half a century.

Also, it was India also who coined the fake phrase "Hindi Chini bhai bhai", even while doing all this at the same time. Hard to see how that is not backstabbing.


----------



## kingdurgaking

Chinese-Dragon said:


> China-Japan bilateral trade is in the hundreds of billions. In fact they are our second largest trading partner.
> 
> No chance of war with Japan in the near future.  Their "pacifist constitution" and lack of nukes prevents them from being a real threat to the Chinese mainland. They need Chinese trade (and rare earth exports) to keep their GDP growth positive as well.
> 
> The most serious border dispute that China has, which actually has a chance of leading to war, is the one with India.



LOL ... dont you think India doesnt do bilateral trade with China ?? ... And Japan is in America's Nuclear umbrella.. do you have any clue what it is?? Any attack on Japan will get a retaliation from NATO.. 
As i remember F-22 's are already on service for Japan and Taiwan 

And you never knew which relation turns ugly in course of time..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fighter20

Guys,it is just a fanboy's imagination.Easy!


----------



## kingdurgaking

fighter20 said:


> Guys,it is just a fanboy's imagination.Easy!



We know we are just debating

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LaBong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I find it hard to understand what China did to India before 1959, that would cause India to host our largest separatist group on their soil, immediately after they failed to overthrow the Chinese government. And India continued to host them for over half a century.
> 
> Also, it was India also who coined the fake phrase "Hindi Chini bhai bhai", even while doing all this at the same time. Hard to see how that is not backstabbing.



The South Tibet off-course. India was afraid China would claim South Tibet after annexing Tibet(which they indeed did). However the dopey, idealistic nature of Nehru caused us great deal. He was kid compared to the street-smart Mao.


----------



## CardSharp

justanobserver said:


> I was merely commenting on a certain TIME magazine article, posted by a fellow Chinese member with regards to the 1962 wars
> 
> 
> 
> Its seems that the big bad commies *backstabbed* us right?



Look troll, I lift a passage out of the article to show contemporary thinking about the reason behind the withdraw, a question you posed. If you are just that dull, I'll explain it to you again but if you're being deliberately obtuse, then you can save your butter knife sharp wit.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

kingdurgaking said:


> LOL ... dont you think India doesnt do bilateral trade with China ?? ... And Japan is in America's Nuclear umbrella.. do you have any clue what it is?? Any attack on Japan will get a retaliation from NATO..
> As i remember F-22 's are already on service for Japan and Taiwan
> 
> And you never knew which relation turns ugly in course of time..



Exactly!

Japan is under America's nuclear umbrella which makes it difficult for anyone to attack them.

They also have a "pacifist constitution" and no nuclear weapons, which makes it difficult for THEM to attack others.

So overall a good mix.

Anyway, here is a list of China's "largest" trading partners, notice India is not on it.

List of the largest trading partners of the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## unicorn148

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Japan is under America's nuclear umbrella which makes it difficult for anyone to attack them.
> 
> They also have a "pacifist constitution" and no nuclear weapons, which makes it difficult for THEM to attack others.
> 
> So overall a good mix.
> 
> Anyway, here is a list of China's "largest" trading partners, notice India is not on it.
> 
> List of the largest trading partners of the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The list you show is old when the trade was only 40 billion now the trade is 60+ billion dollars and growing faster than others so India will enter the top 5 very fast


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

unicorn148 said:


> The list you show is old when the trade was only 40 billion now the trade is 60+ billion dollars and growing faster than others so India will enter the top 5 very fast



Could I ask why you're interested in increasing trade with us?

The trade balance strongly favours China, with a big trade surplus in our favour. Also, China and India are geostrategic rivals.

I'm just curious.


----------



## kingdurgaking

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Japan is under America's nuclear umbrella which makes it difficult for anyone to attack them.
> 
> They also have a "pacifist constitution" and no nuclear weapons, which makes it difficult for THEM to attack others.
> 
> So overall a good mix.
> 
> Anyway, here is a list of China's "largest" trading partners, notice India is not on it.
> 
> List of the largest trading partners of the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Please go through Bloomberg stats for these kind of data.. see the target India and China set for themselves in recent news..

And FYI we are under Russian umbrella already


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

kingdurgaking said:


> Please go through Bloomberg stats for these kind of data.. see the target India and China set for themselves in recent news..
> 
> And FYI we are under Russian umbrella already



Russia is also an ally of China, we are both founding members of the SCO, and have a military partnership as seen below.

2001 Sino-Russian Treaty of Friendship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at any Sino-Indian issues like the 1962 war, the recent Sino-Pak nuclear deal, Stapled visas, etc. and you will see that Russia stays out of any dispute between China and India.


----------



## kingdurgaking

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Russia is also an ally of China, we are both founding members of the SCO, and have a military partnership as seen below.
> 
> 2001 Sino-Russian Treaty of Friendship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Look at any Sino-Indian issues like the 1962 war, the recent Sino-Pak nuclear deal, Stapled visas, etc. and you will see that Russia stays out of any dispute between China and India.



And what about russian president statement during the recent visit?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

kingdurgaking said:


> And what about russian president statement during the recent visit?



You mean the statement where he did not name any country at all, and instead talked about Mumbai and terrorist attacks?

Tell me when was the last time Russia sided with India against China, in any serious diplomatic spat, be it 1962, the Sino-Pakistani nuclear deal, or Stapled visas?


----------



## kingdurgaking

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You mean the statement where he did not name any country at all, and instead talked about Mumbai and terrorist attacks?
> 
> Tell me when was the last time Russia sided with India against China, in any serious diplomatic spat, be it 1962, the Sino-Pakistani nuclear deal, or Stapled visas?



Named or un-named he has assured India of massive retaliation from Russian end incase India being attacked right?.. during 1962 India was not in close relationship with Russia but it had with US... And US shipments did start but war ended mean while.. But i hope Russian shipments wont be late.. it will be from day zero...

And India has not asked any ones help for the stapled Visa issue because we feel we can resolve the issue at ease.. we dont want some one's help for these small small issues..

And Kashmir is internal matter which India never let any country to intervene from day one.. i hope you agree in this..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

I can't really believe that Indians think Russia cares about India.

Straw poll how many of you actually think Russia would bring out the nukes in some hypothetic situation.


----------



## LaBong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You mean the statement where he did not name any country at all, and instead talked about Mumbai and terrorist attacks?
> 
> Tell me when was the last time Russia sided with India against China, in any serious diplomatic spat, be it 1962, the Sino-Pakistani nuclear deal, or Stapled visas?



Russia didn't and Russia won't. However America did, and America will.


----------



## CaptainJackSparrow

CardSharp said:


> I can't really believe that Indians think Russia cares about India.



Don't worry, Indians also believe that even Pakistanis care about us.

Ever heard of 'Aman Ki Asha'?


----------



## CardSharp

CaptainJackSparrow said:


> Don't worry, Indians also believe that even Pakistanis care about us.
> 
> Ever heard of 'Aman Ki Asha'?



Googled it and apparently it's some kind of peace prize promoting Ind-Pak friendship.


----------



## kingdurgaking

CardSharp said:


> I can't really believe that Indians think Russia cares about India.
> 
> Straw poll how many of you actually think Russia would bring out the nukes in some hypothetic situation.



What makes you believe so?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Abir said:


> Russia didn't and Russia won't. However America did, and America will.



America is closest to Pakistan, and they have an enormous economic relationship with China (the largest bilateral economic relationship in the world I believe).

I find it hard to believe that any country would make a direct military intervention on behalf of India, against China+Pakistan.

Do you have any military pact with any nation that guarantees this?


----------



## CaptainJackSparrow

CardSharp said:


> Googled it and apparently it's some kind of peace prize promoting Ind-Pak friendship.



It's a large scale peace project. Here in India, they often publish polls etc. about how most Pakistanis want peace and friendly relations with India.


----------



## CardSharp

CaptainJackSparrow said:


> It's a large scale peace project. Here in India, they often publish polls etc. about how most Pakistanis want peace and friendly relations with India.



Lying for a good cause. lol not sure how I feel about that.


----------



## CaptainJackSparrow

CardSharp said:


> Lying for a good cause. lol not sure how I feel about that.



Now you know about what you feel is what 'many Indians believe'.


----------



## kingdurgaking

Chinese-Dragon said:


> America is closest to Pakistan, and they have an enormous economic relationship with China (the largest bilateral economic relationship in the world I believe).
> 
> I find it hard to believe that any country would make a direct military intervention on behalf of India, against China+Pakistan.
> 
> Do you have any military pact with any nation that guarantees this?



Oke Why US and Russia wont be interested in destroying China which is becoming a threat for them day by day?.. I guess given an opportunity they will dont you think so??..

I just diverted on Russia support to see your reaction which makes you worried but logically India doesn't need any one's help.. because We can take care of ourself..as our doctrine should be covering two front war... which means we will be equipping ourself soon or the latter.. Secondly on any president's visit we are just covering terrorism part as we know how to handle the conventional war fare..


----------



## LaBong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> America is closest to Pakistan, and they have an enormous economic relationship with China (the largest bilateral economic relationship in the world I believe).
> 
> I find it hard to believe that any country would make a direct military intervention on behalf of India, against China+Pakistan.
> 
> Do you have any military pact with any nation that guarantees this?



I think we have some kinda agreement with Russia, not sure. However America did intervene in 62. Provided us weapons and made Pakistan not to attack us simultaneously. However it all depends on geo-politic of that time as noone is permanent friend and foe in real world. It's best to be able to deter any attack by himself as any support will come with lots of strings attached. 

I however don't expect any country to wage war against China on our behalf. Providing weapons and back channel diplomatic support, yes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Abir said:


> I however don't expect any country to wage war against China on our behalf. Providing weapons and back channel diplomatic support, yes.



Fair enough. 

Then I guess it all comes down to avoiding that war in the first place, for both sides.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Then I guess it all comes down to avoiding that war in the first place, for both sides.



i can't claim to understand much of this 'world politics business'. 
But i'm left with the impression that the Governments of both countries have been trying to do precisely *that* (i.e avoiding war) from over 40 odd years!


----------



## tallboy123

SO ,when have u decided to Invade india and nuke India..?


----------



## tallboy123

CardSharp said:


> I can't really believe that Indians think Russia cares about India.
> 
> Straw poll how many of you actually think Russia would bring out the nukes in some hypothetic situation.


who said Russia will help us and bring out it's nukes....
Do u believe someone's opinion in a forum...?

There are 1.1billion people in india,
One person opinion can't be the same of 1 billion..

Think logically 


And don't worry we won't ask anyone's help...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## blackops

OMG i was just reading this joke in my litle brother joke book


----------



## Capt.Popeye

CardSharp said:


> Googled it and apparently it's some kind of peace prize promoting Ind-Pak friendship.



Read it again (carefully), it is a campaign to foster peace and amity (by citizens, not governments) between the two nations- not any kind of prize/s.
Your comments (after that) will be welcome.


----------



## IND151

> * by Abir
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Chinese-Dragon
> Also Abir, I note that you avoided the point of my original post, about the backstabbing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because I don't think anyone backstabbed anyone. Nehru did mistakes and suffered from that. India learned the lesson and applied in 71 with Pakistan.
> 
> Also I don't think Chinese withdrawal was because of good-will. *


 you are 500&#37; right.chinese withdrawl occured coz they knew that indian army will punch back them and defeat them. *SAM manekshaw calculated that PLA can bring only 20,000 soldeirs in assam and cant bring tank regiments due to mountain area of tibet. contrary to this indian army would be able to bring 30,000 soldeirs and 50+ tanks in Assam.*


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

IND151 said:


> you are 500% right.chinese withdrawl occured coz they knew that indian army will punch back them and defeat them. *sam manekshaw calculated that PLA can bring only 20,000 soldeirs in assam and cant bring tank regiments due to mountain area of tibet. contrary to this indian army would be able to bring 30,000 soldeirs and 50+ tanks in assam.*



What's really fascinating to me about the Indo-Chinese conflict (can't be called a war, not much casualties, like wise, calling what's going on in Afghanistan is a war, is simply absurd.)

What the heck were they thinking when their politicians and commandos say: march forward... (To where?)

And unfortunately the individual's opinion still reflects the same mentality. Even after 50 long years.

The Indians believe they have a chance. From an outsider's view, India is perfectly safe because the Chinese don't regard them as even worth their effort (of war).

Yeah!


----------



## IND151

*



by NmHqh2JbVo 
What's really fascinating to me about the Indo-Chinese conflict (can't be called a war, not much casualties, like wise, calling what's going on in Afghanistan is a war, is simply absurd.)

What the heck were they thinking when their politicians and commandos say: march forward... (To where?)

And unfortunately the individual's opinion still reflects the same mentality. Even after 50 long years.

The Indians believe they have a chance. From an outsider's view, India is perfectly safe because the Chinese don't regard them as even worth their effort (of war).
Yeah!

Click to expand...

* still china has lakhs of soldeirs on indo china border. to much preparatoins against india which is according to you even not worth of china's effort.
http://kpj07.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-is-china-afraid-of-india.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BigTree.CN

IND151 said:


> you are 500&#37; right.chinese withdrawl occured coz they knew that *indian army will punch back them and defeat them*. *sam manekshaw calculated that PLA can bring only 20,000 soldeirs in assam and cant bring tank regiments due to mountain area of tibet. contrary to this indian army would be able to bring 30,000 soldeirs and 50+ tanks in assam.*



Indians never cease to boast about their non-existing ability.

PLA withdrew because at that time India was gainning supports from both USSR and USA, China was not able to fight two of the most powerful coutries in the world plus a weak India at the same time.

In a China VS India scenario, India alone never stands a chance. China will crush India like a bug. 

China chooses to tolerate India's misdeed because China is aware whenever China fights India, US is gonna support India, and China is still not strong enough to deter US. It is your boss standing behind India that is detering China from punishing India for harming China again and again, not India itself. India, as a whole, is just a joke. Execept for bullying its small neighbours and hiding behind its boss, it can't accomplish anything alone.


----------



## justanobserver

^^
Spare us O mighty Dragon !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

IND151 said:


> still china has lakhs of soldeirs on indo china border. to much preparatoins against india which is according to you even not worth of china's effort.
> Military India: Why Is China Afraid of India?



The vacation stations for Chinese solders;
#3, Sino-Korean
#2, Sino-Indian,

And here comes #1;

HongKong.


----------



## tallboy123

BigTree.CN said:


> Indians never cease to boast about their non-existing ability.
> 
> PLA withdrew because at that time India was gainning supports from both USSR and USA, China was not able to fight two of the most powerful coutries in the world plus a weak India at the same time.
> 
> In a China VS India scenario, India alone never stands a chance. China will crush India like a bug.
> 
> *China chooses to tolerate India's misdeed because China is aware whenever China fights India, US is gonna support India*, and China is still not strong enough to deter US. *It is your boss standing behind India that is detering China from punishing India for harming China again and again, not India itself. India, as a whole, is just a joke. Execept for bullying its small neighbours and hiding behind its boss, it can't accomplish anything alone.*




signs of trolling,Keep it up..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tallboy123

Why is this thread is still open....
*The main article in this thread has NO SOURCE....*
*It's from a BLOG posted by HongWu and he also added some BS with it...*


----------



## IND151

*



by BigTree.CN 
Quote:



Originally Posted by IND151 
you are 500&#37; right.chinese withdrawl occured coz they knew that indian army will punch back them and defeat them. sam manekshaw calculated that PLA can bring only 20,000 soldeirs in assam and cant bring tank regiments due to mountain area of tibet. contrary to this indian army would be able to bring 30,000 soldeirs and 50+ tanks in assam

Click to expand...

. 

Indians never cease to boast about their non-existing ability.

PLA withdrew because at that time India was gainning supports from both USSR and USA, China was not able to fight two of the most powerful coutries in the world plus a weak India at the same time.

In a China VS India scenario, India alone never stands a chance. China will crush India like a bug. 

China chooses to tolerate India's misdeed because China is aware whenever China fights India, US is gonna support India, and China is still not strong enough to deter US. It is your boss standing behind India that is detering China from punishing India for harming China again and again, not India itself. India, as a whole, is just a joke. Execept for bullying its small neighbours and hiding behind its boss, it can't accomplish anything alone.

Click to expand...

* i think this links satisfies you. propoganda machine of china does not allow you to see truths. *you demand arunachal pradesh from us for last 40+ years and still you cant get it. you are weak and lack ultra high tech. accept it and work hard. then after 20 years you can thump chests.*
Military India: Why Is China Afraid of India?
India's new missile is able to attack China's Harbin - People's Daily Online


----------



## TalhaBinTariq

What would be the role of Pakistan in this conflict?
The &#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581; &#1575;&#1601;&#1608;&#1575;&#1580; (Mussallaah Afvaaj) (Pakistani Armed Forces) might react on concentrating troop deployment to Eastern Border and may try to pressurize Indian Forces to divert their military man-power on Pakistani (Western) borders. As Chinese brothers did in 1965 and 1971. Or Pakistan could help them by sending equipment to frontline under Chinese Command Units. 



Also, one must not forget:-
U.S. & Russian Government might rush to help their "Strategic Partner" in this mess. (As it happened in 1962's Zh&#333;ng-Yìn Bi&#257;njìng Zhànzh&#275;ng). This might result in a further diversity of the conflict. On the other hand given present excessive war budgets, U.S. Government might not want to open another front in Asia, especially against China, and Russian Government won't be foolish enough as to lose a potentially lucrative market as China for their industry as China is the second largest economy after U.S.  

But its a spectacular article, an answer rather, especially when one considers the statement of Indian Army Chief regarding "... limited war with China and Pakistan is possible."


----------



## IND151

*



by TalhaBinTariq 
What would be the role of Pakistan in this conflict?
The &#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581; &#1575;&#1601;&#1608;&#1575;&#1580; (Mussallaah Afvaaj) (Pakistani Armed Forces) might react on concentrating troop deployment to Eastern Border and may try to pressurize Indian Forces to divert their military man-power on Pakistani (Western) borders. As Chinese brothers did in 1965 and 1971. Or Pakistan could help them by sending equipment to frontline under Chinese Command Units. 



Also, one must not forget:-
U.S. & Russian Government might rush to help their "Strategic Partner" in this mess. (As it happened in 1962's Zh&#333;ng-Y&#236;n Bi&#257;nj&#236;ng Zh&#224;nzh&#275;ng). This might result in a further diversity of the conflict. On the other hand given present excessive war budgets, U.S. Government might not want to open another front in Asia, especially against China, and Russian Government won't be foolish enough as to lose a potentially lucrative market as China for their industry as China is the second largest economy after U.S. But its a spectacular article, an answer rather, especially when one considers the statement of Indian Army Chief regarding "... limited war with China and Pakistan is possible."

Click to expand...

* russia and america will help us.* america doesn't want to see superpower china coz it means balance of power.dont forget that western nations invest too much in india just like they invest in china. arms and cash will flow to india and might indian army will destroy PLA . CHINA WILL NOT DARE TO USE NUKES coz india will retaliate. china will go back 30 years.*


----------



## tallboy123

Stop it guys..
I don't know if India china war happens or not,
But i'm sure a virtual war is going on here

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Honor

IND151 said:


> *russia and america will help us. america doent want to see superpower china coz it means balance of power. dont forget that western nations invest too much in india just like they invest in china. arms and cash will flow to india and might indian army will destroy PLA . CHINA WILL NOT DARE TO USE NUKES coz india will retaliate. china will go back 30 years.*



China will go back 30 years if we use nukes! What about India? Will India exists?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## amigo

it seems like this thread is more deadlier than indo-china war. members hurling guns,rockets, tanks,nukes etc at each other.

*CEASEFIRE..............*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tallboy123

Honor said:


> China will go back 30 years if we use nukes! What about India? Will India exists?


Yes..,we were there,we r here,we will be there...

That's why we r building Ballistic missile shield..

*In future,It doesn't matter how much nukes u have or how much range or yield it gives...*
*
Only matters is how many Anti-ballistic missiles u have and how effective it is and how reliable is it software...*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

Abir said:


> _Some sources estimated that by the year 2000, India's stockpile of weapons grade plutonium could rise to 450 kg. This plutonium stockpile was projected by the same conservative assumptions to reach a level equivalent to 85 to 90 weapons by the year 2000.* By another estimate, India easily could have accumulated plutonium from the CIRUS and Dhruva reactors for about 133 weapons by 2000, with the rate of increase from these facilities of nearly 7 weapons annually*_
> 
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2001/south_asia.pdf


That is an interesting report. Based on these number, by 2010, India should have about 150-200 atomic weapons. It's biggest weakness is that these weapons have low yield (20 kT) and it doesn't have a missile. Agni-II failed tests in 2009 and Agni-II prime failed again in 2010.

Funny how India's missiles work when tested by DRDO but don't work when tested by the army.

In contrast, just one DF-21C carries 5-6 thermonuclear warheads ~400 kT. And we have already deployed a bunch of them to Tibet.



Abir said:


> Russia didn't and Russia won't. However America did, and America will.


Look, the US is enlisting India to be the cannon fodder here. There's no way India can convince US to be the cannon fodder against China.

In a Sino-Indian War, China should worry about US involvement if there is no quick victory. The longer the war drags on, the more likely US intervention will be.

But I think China will liberate Kashmir and cut off the northeast within a month.


----------



## HongWu

tallboy123 said:


> SO ,when have u decided to Invade india and nuke India..?


Beijing is now aware of how dangerous India is. I think we will do a pre-emptive strike on India's nuclear program and missile program before it gets too advanced. 

It's clear now that India's missiles have some major problems. Agni-II failed and then Agni-II prime failed. Think about it.... every country's MRBM looks about the same. But India comes out with this ridiculously long and slender missile with an ugly black RV on top. Either India found some fantastic new design that everybody else missed or else Indian missiles are still a joke.

A pre-emptive strike would require Chinese satellites to find those caves in Assam where India hides its nuclear missiles. We can also use intelligence assets like Assam rebels. Once India's missiles are found, then we target them with our conventional ballistic missiles or cruise missiles. Other than the Northeast, the rest of India is too far away from China to deploy missiles (until 10-20 years later when 5000 km Agni is reliable).

*India is not prepared for a first disarming strike! China should take every advantage of this.*


----------



## LaBong

HongWu said:


> That is an interesting report. Based on these number, by 2010, India should have about 150-200 atomic weapons. It's biggest weakness is that these weapons have low yield (20 kT) and it doesn't have a missile. Agni-II failed tests in 2009 and Agni-II prime failed again in 2010.
> 
> Funny how India's missiles work when tested by DRDO but don't work when tested by the army.
> 
> In contrast, just one DF-21C carries 5-6 thermonuclear warheads ~400 kT. And we have already deployed a bunch of them to Tibet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the US is enlisting India to be the cannon fodder here. There's no way India can convince US to be the cannon fodder against China.
> 
> In a Sino-Indian War, China should worry about US involvement if there is no quick victory. The longer the war drags on, the more likely US intervention will be.
> 
> But I think China will liberate Kashmir and cut off the northeast within a month.



Ok bud you win, we lose. We are doomed. Just don't drop nuke at my city, we have scores of Chinese living here.


----------



## LaBong

HongWu said:


> Beijing is now aware of how dangerous India is. I think we will do a pre-emptive strike on India's nuclear program and missile program before it gets too advanced.
> 
> It's clear now that India's missiles have some major problems. Agni-II failed and then Agni-II prime failed. Think about it.... every country's MRBM looks about the same. But India comes out with this ridiculously long and slender missile with an ugly black RV on top. Either India found some fantastic new design that everybody else missed or else Indian missiles are still a joke.
> 
> A pre-emptive strike would require Chinese satellites to find those caves in Assam where India hides its nuclear missiles. We can also use intelligence assets like Assam rebels. Once India's missiles are found, then we target them with our conventional ballistic missiles or cruise missiles. Other than the Northeast, the rest of India is too far away from China to deploy missiles (until 10-20 years later when 5000 km Agni is reliable).
> 
> *India is not prepared for a first disarming strike! China should take every advantage of this.*



Now I support China's policy of moderating Internet. But where the heck are those Internet police anyway in the time of need!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## J - 50

Abir said:


> Now I support China's policy of moderating Internet. But where the heck are those Internet police anyway in the time of need!


well m dead drunk ,,, but still its tooooooooo funny man  ...

chinkese we love you


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> That is an interesting report. Based on these number, by 2010, India should have about 150-200 atomic weapons. It's biggest weakness is that these weapons have low yield (20 kT) and it doesn't have a missile. Agni-II failed tests in 2009 and Agni-II prime failed again in 2010.
> 
> Funny how India's missiles work when tested by DRDO but don't work when tested by the army.
> 
> In contrast, just one DF-21C carries 5-6 thermonuclear warheads ~400 kT. And we have already deployed a bunch of them to Tibet.


*
When u have 3Mt nuke,do u think We will be quite and rely on 20kT..
When a country can build 20kT nuke,do u think it tough to build a 3mT nuke,with these modern Super computers...
If u know anything about nuclear physics u will realize..
The thing is we can't do another nuclear test,it would trigger arms race and will hurt our economy..
*

U r 200kt or 200MT doesn't matter mister..

*We don't have first use policy,so we r devloping ABM's
Both Exo and Endo..*

Till now all the 6 test have given excellent result..
Once it's deployed,all ur yield numbers will be outdated... 

So ur yeild doesn't matter,better find another way to nuke other than ballistic missile..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LaBong

J - 50 said:


> well m dead drunk ,,, but still its tooooooooo funny man  ...



Dude edit that post, it's racist term.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## J - 50

Abir said:


> Dude edit that post, it's racist term.


sorry mate .. its a mistype... i cant even see my keyboard ...  

love you chines + pakistais


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Abir said:


> Ok bud you win, we lose. We are doomed. Just don't drop nuke at my city, we have scores of Chinese living here.



I second that; no reason at all that my favorite Chinese eating places in Tangra/China-town should be destroyed; that too by some Chinese missiles!

*Herr Field Marschall/Comrade Hong Wu*, whatever you do; when you launch your missiles, make sure that you don't target the Chinese restaurants in India. Just to help you, I will send you a list of the Chinese restaurants and their geographical co-ordinates.


----------



## Honor

tallboy123 said:


> *
> When u have 3Mt nuke,do u think We will be quite and rely on 20kT..
> When a country can build 20kT nuke,do u think it tough to build a 3mT nuke,with these modern Super computers...
> If u know anything about nuclear physics u will realize..
> The thing is we can't do another nuclear test,it would trigger arms race and will hurt our economy..
> *
> 
> U r 200kt or 200MT doesn't matter mister..
> 
> *We don't have first use policy,so we r devloping ABM's
> Both Exo and Endo..*
> 
> Till now all the 6 test have given excellent result..
> Once it's deployed,all ur yield numbers will be outdated...
> 
> So ur yeild doesn't matter,better find another way to nuke other than ballistic missile..



Another Indian mentioning India's non existent capability!


----------



## tallboy123

Honor said:


> Another Indian mentioning India's non existent capability!



Single line answer...
U better don't reply if u don't have any answers
And India's ABM is existent..
YouTube - India's Anti-ballistic Missile - PAD -Intercepts Medium Range Ballistic Missile -Part 4

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## J - 50

Honor said:


> Another Indian mentioning India's non existent capability!


so you wanna feel a 400 KT nuclear warhead on ur city .. to belive it...


----------



## HongWu

It is true that India is purchasing components from Israel for an theater-wide ABM that might have implications for China. They've already bought Israeli early warning radars Green Pine (and customized Indian version Swordfish).

Of course, nobody is saying the Indians have the technology themselves. That would be a joke. That liquid-fueled Privthi missile for example is a joke.

China has actually tested an ABM against a DF-21 in January 2010 so China is well ahead in this game. Still, even a deployed Chinese ABM would not be able to take down 100&#37; of Indian missiles, especially if they use decoys.


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> It is true that India is purchasing components from Israel for an theater-wide ABM that might have implications for China. They've already bought Israeli early warning radars Green Pine (and customized Indian version Swordfish).
> 
> Of course, nobody is saying the Indians have the technology themselves. That would be a joke.
> 
> Still, China has actually tested an ABM against a DF-21 in January 2010 so China is well ahead in this game.



ya ya china is well ahead in electronics and radar tech than Israel and well ahead in software than India

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Honor

J - 50 said:


> so you wanna feel a 400 KT nuclear warhead on ur city .. to belive it...



Is that a threat? LOL! 

Anyway, there's no proof that India had 400KT nuclear warhead but everyone knows that China had MT level nuclear warhead.


----------



## Srinivas

All the chinese rant is use less China has higher value assets in shangai and other developed cities nuke them then China will go back to 1970 where it started its economic reforms, Thus ending Han chinese dream of dominating or bulling small countries not India .

The moment China starts armed conflict with India think that it is the first step of the down fall of China now.
If it tries to go to war after 5 or 6 years it will be seen as the fight between equals.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tallboy123

Offtopic:-
Guys can anyone tell me how much yield would a 1000Kg nuke warhead give...?


----------



## HongWu

tallboy123 said:


> ya ya china is well ahead in electronics and radar tech than Israel and well ahead in software than India


There is a lot of technology diffusion between USA and Israel. That's why their electronics and radars are very advanced.

In electronics and radars, China is not as advanced as USA but not far behind Israel. We already have AESA radar (both fighter radar and ship-borne) and AWACS (in fact we export to Pakistan).

As for software, what has India achieved? Its own operating system?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> There is a lot of technology diffusion between USA and Israel. That's why their electronics and radars are very advanced.
> 
> In electronics and radars, China is not as advanced as USA but not far behind Israel. We already have AESA radar (both fighter radar and ship-borne) and AWACS (in fact we export to Pakistan).
> 
> As for software, what has India achieved? Its own operating system?


U r really funny..

Do u think AESA radar is used to detect Ballistic missiles..
it shows how much knowledge u have about it..

Even USA has joint ventured with Israel for critical tech from them...

About software..
Operating systems u use in u r computers are not used in missile tech...
We have successfully developed high accurate Guidance tech for a Supersonic brahmos with 0.2meter CEP...
and also for hypersonic one called as shaurya...





I think now u understood..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

sukhoi_30MKI said:


> All the chinese rant is use less China has higher value assets in shangai and other developed cities nuke them then China will go back to 1970 where it started its economic reforms, Thus ending Han chinese dream of dominating or bulling small countries not India .


So your point is India is so backward even if it gets nuked it wouldn't get any poorer, maybe even better since population would be small.


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> There is a lot of technology diffusion between USA and Israel. That's why their electronics and radars are very advanced.
> 
> In electronics and radars, China is not as advanced as USA but not far behind Israel. We already have AESA radar (both fighter radar and ship-borne) and AWACS (in fact we export to Pakistan).
> 
> As for software, what has India achieved? *Its own operating system?*


forgot we even have made operating system..
it is used in every goverment offices..
It supports every major languages of india
it's called Bharath operating solution..

YouTube - Boss operating system (Bharat Operating System Solutions).flv

YouTube - BOSS Bharat Operating System Solutions

*BUSTED*

also we have made our own Browser called EPIC..which is the first browser to have side bar..and i use it and using now..
YouTube - EPIC Browser First Look

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## MrProudIndian

Chinese-Dragon said:


> ^^^ I find it hilarious how people argue against my point without actually talking about the point.
> 
> The point is, India cannot achieve MAD towards China. Small nuclear stockpile, huge distances to major cities, *and the need to reserve some of the stockpile for Pakistan too.
> *
> Deterrence, economic damage, that's all possible... but not MAD. That requires a level of destruction that would cause a nation to lose sovereignty.



*Now i seriously know that you are an immature kid!
You applied that logic for India reserving weaponry etc for Pakistan.

Would US be silent in an Indo-China war??
Won't China need to stock up its weaponry for the extra extra large and powerful US and handling India on the other side?
Would US lose this opportunity to drag China several decades back!?
Think before you post.
And ofc,China can't afford to go on a war against India.
*


----------



## tallboy123

The thing Chinese(HongWu) underestimate it's enemies...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

China's DF-31A, DF-5A and JL-2 are for USA. They are intercontinental range.

China's DF-25 is for India. It is medium range.

So, we would reserve the intercontinental missiles and still have ~120 DF-25 for India.


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> China's DF-31A, DF-5A and JL-2 are for USA. They are intercontinental range.
> 
> China's DF-25 is for India. It is medium range.
> 
> So, we would reserve the intercontinental missiles and still have ~120 DF-25 for India.


WoW,
So we have nukes to keep in British museum...
Funny guy,don't the difference between AESA radar and ABM RADAR..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> China's DF-31A, DF-5A and JL-2 are for USA. They are intercontinental range.
> 
> China's DF-25 is for India. It is medium range.
> 
> So, we would reserve the intercontinental missiles and still have ~120 DF-25 for India.



See u r CpC has invited BJP to china for talks,i don't wat they wanna talk with BJP,but please don't use these missiles against them,
BJP is a better than Congress..
We need them to keep a check on Congress


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...tes-nitin-gadkari-for-a-visit_1489166:cheers:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## redfox

J - 50 said:


> well m dead drunk ,,, but still its tooooooooo funny man  ...
> 
> chinkese we love you



Blood a little boiling, eh? The day that india's military can even come close to success whould be the following link below happens. 2 days, all of india is wiped out (conventional war). 30 mins all of india flattened . (nuke whttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjB6a0e8THUar).

Enjoy!


----------



## tallboy123

redfox said:


> Blood a little boiling, eh? The day that india's military can even come close to success whould be the following link below happens. *2 days, all of india is wiped out *(conventional war). *30 mins all of india flattened *. (nuke whttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjB6a0e8THUar).
> 
> Enjoy!


----------



## Capt.Popeye

redfox said:


> Blood a little boiling, eh? The day that india's military can even come close to success whould be the following link below happens. 2 days, all of india is wiped out (conventional war). 30 mins all of india flattened . (nuke whttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjB6a0e8THUar).
> 
> Enjoy!



Thanks, RedFaux. For the History (and future) of the world according to YouTube!

But between you and Herr Feld Marschall HongWu; when you use up your 30 minutes flattening India, spare my favorite Chinese restaurants there from decimation! Am looking forward to more meals there.
And let not History say-- Chinese Restaurants were flattened by Chinese Missiles and Nukes.


----------



## MAFIAN GOD

redfox said:


> Blood a little boiling, eh? The day that india's military can even come close to success whould be the following link below happens. 2 days, all of india is wiped out (conventional war). 30 mins all of india flattened . (nuke whttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjB6a0e8THUar).
> 
> Enjoy!



Whatever makes you feel better YOU TUBE FAN BOY KID.


----------



## tallboy123

*


HongWu said:





Another stupid Bharti who doesn't know how stupid he is.

Click to expand...


*

Personal attack
and now u guys know who is HongWu..
U know who calls us Bharathi


----------



## Capt.Popeye

tallboy123 said:


> *
> 
> *
> 
> Personal attack
> and now u guys know who is HongWu..
> U know who calls us Bharathi



EK AUR BENAQAB HO GAYA.


----------



## Srinivas

HongWu said:


> So your point is India is so backward even if it gets nuked it wouldn't get any poorer, maybe even better since population would be small.



I am talking about collateral damage .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

tallboy123 said:


> *
> 
> *
> 
> Personal attack
> and now u guys know who is HongWu..
> U know who calls us Bharathi


LOL..... there is no offense intended. I called you stupid because that is an objective fact.

You don't even know the difference between AESA (a technology) and ABM (a role / function).

Nor do you know that India's own "ABM radar" is an Israeli-made AESA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EL/M-2080_Green_Pine


----------



## Vishwa

Honor said:


> Is that a threat? LOL!
> 
> Anyway, there's no proof that India had 400KT nuclear warhead but everyone knows that China had MT level nuclear warhead.



If we tell you the exact yield of our bombs then it wont be secret any more. I am happy that there is no source. People are not fool who are pressurizing us to sign NPT for no reason. There are reasons. When you can make a single kT bomb you can build a 400kT bomb.
I just wonder you people didn't even come to know about our nuclear test in 1998 and also in 1974. Infect you people are still confused about our Thermonuclear device with different yields different sources.


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> LOL..... there is no offense intended. I called you stupid because that is an objective fact.
> 
> You don't even know the difference between AESA (a technology) and ABM (a role / function).
> 
> Nor do you know that India's own "ABM radar" is an Israeli-made AESA.
> 
> EL/M-2080 Green Pine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Members know who is that as u earlier mentioned...


----------



## LaBong

HongWu said:


> Another stupid *Bharti *who doesn't know how stupid he is.



I think it's a hight time for CD's Chinese test.


----------



## Vishwa

HongWu said:


> LOL..... there is no offense intended. I called you stupid because that is an objective fact.
> 
> You don't even know the difference between AESA (a technology) and ABM (a role / function).
> 
> *Nor do you know that India's own "ABM radar" is an Israeli-made AESA*.
> 
> EL/M-2080 Green Pine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



blah blah blah


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> LOL..... there is no offense intended. I called you stupid because that is an objective fact.
> 
> You don't even know the difference between AESA (a technology) and ABM (a role / function).
> 
> Nor do you know that India's own "ABM radar" is an Israeli-made AESA.
> 
> EL/M-2080 Green Pine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


India is not using green Pine..
India's ABM use Swordfish radar..

However, it differs from the Israeli system as* it(swordfish) employs Indian Transmit Receive modules, signal processing, computers and power supplies.* *It is also more powerful than the base Green Pine system and was developed to meet India's specific BMD needs.
*

In March 2009, India DRDO tested long-range capabilities of its indigenously developed Swordfish radar


Swordfish Long Range Tracking Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

Vishwa said:


> Infect you people are still confused about our Thermonuclear device with different yields different sources.


Yes, Indians said it was successful. The rest of the world says it failed.

Just like Indians say they are a superpower. The rest of the world laughs.


----------



## syntax_error

I dont believe this .... this thread is still alive ... an article with no reference ... let alone haveing credible proof....

greeat its doing wonders for this forum... but hey its India Bashing ... who's cares aboutour reputation when that can be done ...


perfect


----------



## Vishwa

HongWu said:


> Yes, Indians said it was successful. The rest of the world says it failed.
> 
> Just like Indians say they are a superpower. The rest of the world laughs.



then we should test again,
what you say?
lol


----------



## tallboy123

Vishwa said:


> then we should test again,
> what you say?
> lol



We don't want to risk our economy


----------



## Vishwa

tallboy123 said:


> We don't want to risk our economy



no that was a sarcastic comment to this chini mitti


----------



## LaBong

Hong Wu, my friend can you tell us what does it mean in Chinese?


----------



## tallboy123

^^We r waiting for ur reply hongWu

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

syntax_error said:


> I dont believe this .... this thread is still alive ... an article with no reference ... let alone haveing credible proof....
> 
> greeat its doing wonders for this forum... but hey its India Bashing ... who's cares aboutour reputation when that can be done ...
> 
> 
> perfect


There is no reference because I wrote it. So you have some comments or critiques?


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Abir said:


> Hong Wu, my friend can you tell us what does it mean in Chinese?



Come Abir,
You are trying to hail a *Taxi No.9211*.


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> There is no reference because I wrote it. So you have some comments or critiques?


So it's all King HongWu's Imagination....

But also this thread is alive..
Coz it's a india bashing thread


----------



## tallboy123

Capt.Popeye said:


> Come Abir,
> You are trying to hail a *Taxi No.9211*.



is that the answer..?


----------



## LaBong

Capt.Popeye said:


> Come Abir,
> You are trying to hail a *Taxi No.9211*.



I should have thought it earlier with him keep pestering a future war of India and China!  

Anyway he was doing it okay till "Bharti" got him caught. 

Thanks to CD for the Chinese test idea.


----------



## HongWu

Abir said:


> Hong Wu, my friend can you tell us what does it mean in Chinese?


That is an auspicious symbol for wealth and not a standard character. Imageshack is also not viewable from China without a proxy.


----------



## GodlessBastard

The chances of a second Sino-Indian War happening are about as high as Sarah Palin winning the 2012 U.S. election.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

tallboy123 said:


> is that the answer..?



No. That is the number of the taxi that Herr Feld Marschall Hong Wu travels by.


----------



## ganimi kawa

Abir said:


> I should have thought it earlier with him keep pestering a future war of India and China!
> 
> *Anyway he was doing it okay till "Bharti" got him caught.*
> 
> Thanks to CD for the Chinese test idea.




*Hong Wu,Hong Wu whatcha gonna do? 
whatcha gonna do,
when they come for you?

Hong Wu Hong Wu whatcha gonna do?
Whatcha gonna do ,
when they come for you?*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## majesticpankaj

ganimi kawa said:


> *Hong Wu,Hong Wu whatcha gonna do?
> whatcha gonna do,
> when they come for you?
> 
> Hong Wu Hong Wu whatcha gonna do?
> Whatcha gonna do ,
> when they come for you?*



best poem ever....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

Abir, I thought you were so clever? Where are you now?



GodlessBastard said:


> The chances of a second Sino-Indian War happening are about as high as Sarah Palin winning the 2012 U.S. election.


No, it's 50 years after 1962 and everybody know Indian Army wants a rematch. You think China won't oblige?



> No. That is the number of the taxi that Herr Feld Marschall Hong Wu travels by.


You folks wish that I am Pakistani so you can go back to dreaming that Indian can scheme on Tibet without consequences.

*Ah..... no Bharti can come in between the friendship of China and Pakistan! No matter how clever you think you are.*


----------



## Capt.Popeye

HongWu said:


> Abir, I thought you were so clever? Where are you now?
> 
> 
> No, it's 50 years after 1962 and everybody know Indian Army wants a rematch. You think China won't oblige?
> 
> 
> You folks wish that I am Pakistani so you can go back to dreaming that Indian can scheme on Tibet without consequences.
> 
> *Ah..... no Bharti can come in between the friendship of China and Pakistan! No matter how clever you think you are.*



Could'nt care less what you claim to be! 
As if even you know that.
But thanks for the fables.
And BTW when is the nuking and bombing gonna start, Herr Feld Marschall?
Having fun anyways.


----------



## GodlessBastard

HongWu said:


> No, it's 50 years after 1962 and everybody know Indian Army wants a rematch. You think China won't oblige?



Nope, there is only one country in Asia that would benefit from a Sino-Indian War. Neither India nor China are interested.

I'll let you guess which country that is.

Also, since when did 'bharti' become part of the Chinese vocabulary?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## desiman

The only country that would have any interest in an Indo-China war is Pakistan, other than that both India and China know how stupid it will be to indulge in a war. The world is to close together and connected for such giants to go to war, the world economy will not allow such things to happen.


----------



## TenjikuKensei

Edit: CS I have posted these on the Concentrating forces/62 thread as I believe that thread would be better suited for this discussion than the current one.



CardSharp said:


> the 2000 year remark is not my assertion but merely a statement I came across made by an Indian officer who wrote about 1962.



I have found that it is almost always a must to verify such claims, regardless of their origin. To merely state what one reads somewhere without verifying the validity of it might lead to such erroneous statements. The officer makes a rather silly claim about Indian military history in that regard. One wonders about his knowledge given such a breathtaking display of ignorance about probably one of the biggest empires in Indian history, and the Only Indian empire to have brought SEA under its rule...in fact according to historians it was one of the preeminent Naval and Military powers during the 11 and 12th centuries in the world.

Either the officer is ignorant about a major part of the military history of India, and/or he conveniently leaves aside such facts in order to push his pet theory. I believe that in reality this was a mixture of both ignorance as well as willful denial of facts just so he could ride his hobby horse of how "South Asians" mostly suck at military matters. An opening chapter like that does not exactly shore up the credentials of the Author.




CardSharp said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...cious-action-pla-lessons-sino-indian-war.html
> 
> it's in there somewhere.
> 
> 
> and as for the rest about 1962, it's best to deal with facts and details instead of drawing analogies between the PLA offensive and cavalry charges.
> 
> 
> Here is a Times report of the period (as an interesting aside, note the use of Red China and the casual racism). They have the situation down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> //Quoted text
Click to expand...


The Cavalry analogy does fit this particular situation, as my explanations would show later on, in this post. Keep in mind that I explicitly refrained from using the ww2 Blitz analogy as it would certainly not fit this one

Btw, I have read the Thread you had on this issue a couple of months back, when you provided me the link to it. I was hard pressed for time at that time and was not able to reply to it, however I did read through every single page of the pdfs as well as the thread itself. 

*Quote 1*


> Red China behaved in so inscrutably Oriental a manner last week that even Asians were baffled. *After a series of smashing victories in the border war with India. Chinese troops swept down from the towering Himalayas and were poised at the edge of the fertile plains of Assam,* whose jute and tea plantations account for one-fourth of India&#8217;s export trade. Then, with Assam lying defenseless before her conquering army. Red China suddenly called a halt to the fighting.




The part quoted in blue is merely setting the stage for the "story" as told by the writer. Inscrutably Oriental means absolutely nothing except to hark back to the old Kipling-ish notions of the East...and to raise an aura of mystery and suspense..what better way for the writer to rope in some more readers 

The part in bold was mostly true.

And the part in Red was not. Here is where I fundamentally Disagree.
Ill expand more on this later.

*Quote 2*


> Radio Peking announced that, &#8220;on its own initiative.&#8221; Red China was ordering a cease-fire on all fronts. Further, by Dec. 1, Chinese troops would retire to positions 12&#189; miles behind the lines they occupied on Nov. 7. 1959. If this promise is actually carried out. it would mean, for some Chinese units, a pullback of more than 60 miles. These decisions. Peking continued, &#8221;represent a most sincere effort&#8221; to achieve &#8221;a speedy termination of the Sino-Indian conflict, a reopening of peaceful negotiations, and a peaceful settlement of the boundary question.&#8221; War or peace, the message concluded, &#8221;depends on whether or not the Indian government responds positively.&#8221;



The above is pure Propaganda to explain away the inevitable(I'm sorry if this sounds blunt, but one has to call a spade a spade). For the simple fact that the PLA could not have held on to the territory taken, let alone take more. Again ill answer this later.

*Quote 3*


> In New Delhi the government of Prime Minister Jawaharlal *Nehru was taken completely by surprise.* An Indian spokesman first denounced the Chinese offer as a &#8220;diabolical maneuver.&#8221; which was later amended to the comment that India would &#8220;wait and see&#8221; exactly what the Chinese were proposing. A communique confirmed that, after the cease-fire deadline, there &#8220;had been no report of firing by the Chinese aggressors.&#8221; Indian troops also stopped shooting, but Nehru warned India: &#8220;We must not imagine that the struggle will soon be over.&#8221;



I would not be surprised if Nehru actually was surprised...after all he was clueless when it came to military matters.

*Quote 4*


> On closer examination, the Chinese cease-fire proved to be a lot less mysterious. It did offer India&#8217;s battered armies a badly needed respite. But it left the Chinese armies in position to resume their offensive if Nehru refuses the Peking terms. And it puts on India the onus of continuing the war. Said the Hindustan Times: &#8220;The latest Chinese proposals are not a peace offer but an ultimatum.&#8221;



This statement is patently wrong. Some "closer examination" indeed. 


Now that I have set the template for my post, ill go ahead and address them in detail.


A picture is worth a thousand words, so allow me to provide one of the region where the conflict took place.







The answer to why China Withdrew, is as simple as that ^^. However, lets continue

I reiterate what I posted on my previous post. An army marches on its stomach. Some salient points to note

*Point 1:*
The conflict was limited to infantry engagements.No tanks, No air force

*Point 2:*
The Assam plains...as the name implies (and as you can see in the topographical map provided above) are exactly that...plains. 

*Point 3:*
America was sending Airsupport in the form of bombers and fighter aircraft to India, and the first of these units were already on their way when China "Unilaterally" withdrew. Russia on the other hand supported India on this issue as well, and this was the time when China and Russia were at loggerheads.

*Point 3.1*



> The PLA had both strengths and weakness in its readiness
> for mountain warfare against India. Perhaps China's biggest
> weakness was the economic and budgetary constraints on the
> Army. * The Soviets has willingly supplied the PLA in the
> 1950's. But deteriorating relations--including border disputes--
> with Russia led to the end of Soviet military aid in 1960.
> Further, China faced national economic difficulties in the
> late 1950s and early 1960s. This resulted in progressive
> cutbacks and constraints from 1960 to 1962 for the PLA:
> ". . . . so serious was the shortage of military equipment
> and materials that it caused trouble in the training pro-
> gram. . . . The Ground Force is also facing the difficulties
> of obtaining fuel, ammunition, and batteries for the use of
> their vehicles and in training."* The 1962 Taiwan Strait
> Crisis put further strains on the PLA's resources. Clearly,
> the watchword for the PLA was self-reliance--making due with
> the supplies and equipment that were available.
> 
> Author: CALVIN, James Barnard, Lieutenant Commander,
> U. S. Navy
> Title: THE CHINA - INDIA BORDER WAR (1962)
> Publisher: Marine Corps Command and Staff College
> Date: April 1984
> 
> link
> The China-India Border War
Click to expand...



Now let us revisit Quotes 1 and 4


*Quote 1*


> Red China behaved in so inscrutably Oriental a manner last week that even Asians were baffled. *After a series of smashing victories in the border war with India. Chinese troops swept down from the towering Himalayas and were poised at the edge of the fertile plains of Assam,* whose jute and tea plantations account for one-fourth of India&#8217;s export trade. Then, with Assam lying defenseless before her conquering army. Red China suddenly called a halt to the fighting.






> On closer examination, the Chinese cease-fire proved to be a lot less mysterious. It did offer India&#8217;s battered armies a badly needed respite. But it left the Chinese armies in position to resume their offensive if Nehru refuses the Peking terms. And it puts on India the onus of continuing the war.




Chinese forces, if they ever set foot on the Assam plains would have been walking into certain defeat. Pls refer to the map provided. There is No way for the Chinese military to bring tanks or heavy weapons...While on the other hand, the Indian troops would be able to. Furthermore the Chinese forces would not only have to face heavy weapons with infantry alone, they will also have to suffer under complete air-superiority held by American and Indian air forces. The Heavy bombing the PLA underwent in Korea was not a pleasant experience...but at lest over there they had far far shorter supply and logistics lines to China than they would have in Assam...in fact the Chinese war reserves would be exhausted in days if not weeks of sustained fighting in that region.


This is not mere speculation, but solely based on facts.(You are free to point out any mistakes). Any trickle of supplies that made through nearly 1000km of mountainous terrain would not suffice...not by a long shot


Otoh the Indian forces would be in a far better position, doubly so because their supply lines would be much shorter....would in fact be much more mobile due to American supply airdrops/logistics, and also to the fact that they can and would use heavy weapons/vehicles against an enemy that is made up on infantry units...and is also bingo ammo and supplies!

There is no way for the PLA to do a Hannibal and bring Tanks(instead of elephants) over the mountains into this region.

And no..there is simply no way...especially in 62 that China could have supplied a fighting force in Assam. I distinctly remember reading a Chinese account of the 1962 conflict(I will go over the stuff I have right with me now and see if it was from one of those sources or from some other book)where it is mentioned that mortar/artillery shells and other supplies had to be built up on the Chinese/India border just before the 1962 conflict through backbreaking labor of men and mules....literally...men used to carry mortar shells on their backs...they were the only things that could bring supplies to such a region..and keep in mind that these man-mule supply trains have to be literally hundreds of kms long.Also keep in mind that that there were no rail lines on the Chinese side for hundreds of miles from the border.The Indian side had at least two going right up the Assam plains.(pic provided for reference)







The Indians, backed with American airpower (even without it) would have no trouble defeating a force that is purely infantry and is almost zero ammo/supplies if it sets foot in the Assam plains.Also refer to point 3.1 


This is the very same reason that the Allies during ww2 (who had logistical capabilities orders of magnitudes greater than the PLA during 1962) did not try to invade Germany/France through Italy, even though they had invaded and occupied Italy long before the Normandy invasion. Again, the answer is very simple...mountains. And compared to the mountains and logistical challenges the Allies would have faced, the one faced by PLA would have been orders of magnitudes bigger






^^ see the similarity? Hell Invasion of Europe via Italy would have been a cakewalk compared to the logistical challenges faced by the PLA in the Indo China war.

Thus my previous post still stands, notwithstanding some baseless claims made by writers who do not look at the bigger military picture and are more concerned about "sensationalist" proclamations. 


Its a "fact" that the PLA HAD to withdraw or face crushing defeat. In military conflicts around the world, entire armies have fallen due to their own weight...due to lack of supplies. Without supplies, an army is not an army anymore than a writer is a writer without a pen. It would be useless.


Thus in conclusion we can see why "QUOTE 2" was nothing but propaganda. I could go into more detail about this, but I believe I have made my points sufficiently well. I am yet to see any evidence or explanation as to how the PLA could have continued on fighting.....Even without American aid the supply lines from Assam plains to the Arunachal Pradesh border is a few hundred kilometers....for the PLA nearly a 1000. They did well initially, but would have definitly lost a protracted war in that region not for lack of "valour" but for the previously stated reasons. They "saved face" by declaring a unilateral withdrawal which resulted in no net gain to China..and in fact benefited the Indian army in more concrete ways over the years. As I pointed out in my previous post, the Chinese withdrawal is simply to cut its losses when it lost the beginners advantage, and would have to face diminishing returns, and eventual defeat if it were to have followed through on its invasion. You have to give it to them for making it seem as it was a "victory" (if one can claim victory if the "victor" vacates the field with no net gains and with the opponent not suing for peace) thanks to some good old propaganda.


I would gladly answer any valid points you have against this course of events which imho would not have been merely possible, but would have been inevitable.(i meant the withdrawal of the PLA lest it wanted to face defeat).I am aware that you do know a bit about lines of communication..supplies and other stuff regarding warfare, so I'm sure you will look at the cold hard facts than quote reporters who are clueless as to to the subject they are dealing with...and are more concerned about sensationalist news items than factual ones.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Abir said:


> Hong Wu, my friend can you tell us what does it mean in Chinese?



The problem here Abir, is that you have to actually make the image yourself, rather than copying an image that already exists. Otherwise the original image can be easily found, this image for example is on Wikipedia.

File:Chinese Character zhao1 cai2 jin4 bao3.png - Wikimedia Commons

It's also not a standard character. 

Anyway I don't see any reason to doubt HongWu's nationality. Perhaps he picked up the phrase "Bharti" from the Pakistani members of this forum, or from somewhere else on the internet.


----------



## HongWu

GodlessBastard said:


> Nope, there is only one country in Asia that would benefit from a Sino-Indian War. Neither India nor China are interested.
> 
> I'll let you guess which country that is.
> 
> Also, since when did 'bharti' become part of the Chinese vocabulary?


This is typical Indian fantasy. India is scheming to steal Tibet and at the same time deluding itself to think China will do nothing. Nehru thought the exact same thing in 1962.... China would not fight for some barren rocks....

India is just a bunch of barbarians. Just as there is no point talking to a hungry wolf to make peace, there is no point taking to India. Only bring out the gun and put a bullet in its head.

Yeah I know the word "Bharti" so what... I also know samosa, naan, tandoori, chicken tikka and masala. That makes me Pakistani? LOL... I eat both cows and pigs... but I prefer mutton.


----------



## HongWu

TenjikuKensei

I'm not sure what the point of the long post was. Of course China could not hold on to Assam! It was both the logistics and the fact tens of millions of locals wouldn't want foreign occupation. Mao knew it. That's why PLA unilaterally withdrew. I don't see anybody arguing otherwise.



TenjikuKensei said:


> I would not be surprised if Nehru actually was surprised...after all he was clueless when it came to military matters.


He was surprised because he is a typical self-deluding Indian. Just like the hordes of Indians on this board who think China will just let India scheme to take Tibet and do nothing because we have an economy.

China already told Nehru "don't even try it" but Indian national character won the day so Indian army made a heroic "forward policy." And then after these delusional Bhartis get their buts kicked by PLA, *they delude themselves again* by saying "we lost because we were backstabbed" and "we'll fight again 50 years later and win."

It's no wonder at all that history is going to repeat itself. We're going to have another 1962! *This time, China's second artillery should put India down for good!*


----------



## HoGandu

HongWu said:


> TenjikuKensei
> 
> I'm not sure what the point of the long post was. Of course China could not hold on to Assam! It was both the logistics and the fact tens of millions of locals wouldn't want foreign occupation. Mao knew it. That's why PLA unilaterally withdrew. I don't see anybody arguing otherwise.
> 
> 
> He was surprised because he is a typical self-deluding Indian. Just like the hordes of Indians on this board who think China will just let India scheme to take Tibet and do nothing because we have an economy.
> 
> China already told Nehru "don't even try it" but Indian national character won the day so Indian army made a heroic "forward policy." And then after these delusional Bhartis get their buts kicked by PLA, *they delude themselves again* by saying "we lost because we were backstabbed" and "we'll fight again 50 years later and win."
> 
> It's no wonder at all that history is going to repeat itself. We're going to have another 1962! *This time, China's second artillery should put India down for good!*




Sir HongWu 

App ke liye Ek Sheer arj hai, Gaur Pharmayega,

"Shukar hai ki aapke
Komal hath asman tak
nahi pahuch paate


varna


sitare kya cheez hai,aap
to PARIYO KI GAND ME 
BHI UNGLI kar aate!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aakash_2410

OH MY GOSH! This useless thread has twenty flipping four pages?! :O Everyone has commented on the uselessness of this thread but no one actually stopped giving it attention or stop posting? [including me], But the good thing on chinese' part is they didn't give it any importance and took it as a joke. Hence, saved a forum from another india vs china flaming thread. Now it's just Hongwu vs some patriotic indians.


----------



## Brotherhood

Unbelievable, a so-called wise Indian setting up a "Chinese" test on someone.
Hey, try some on me, you might caught me by surprise


----------



## Pak_Sher

Indians should remember that having a war against China will bring them great disaster economically and militarily. We will also have to stand by our friend China when the time comes. China will not be alone, if attacked by India.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## redfox

Pak_Sher said:


> Indians should remember that having a war against China will bring them great disaster economically and militarily. We will also have to stand by our friend China when the time comes. China will not be alone, if attacked by India.



Indians are very optimistic, I give them in their defence. But the thought of winning a war against China? This is inconceivable, not alone laughable! 

These AIR HEADS' comments have gave me the biggest smile all day long. With no credibility, not even on a level minded argument, they come out by the dozens. Now they are getting racist too. I guess the kitchen sink with be coming shortly?

LMAO

China can just FART, and still would bring destructions to India!


----------



## doctor_who

*west and rest should realize that more than iraq or iran its china. and chinese people who need democracy.*

*chinese people are oppressed by their evil govt. and india should also help rest of the world to finish the monster called communist govt. and their military. 

and bring smile to the face of helpless Chinese people.*

*I hope Chinese people get freedom soon and if India can help it will be a Nobel cause.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LaBong

HongWu said:


> Abir, I thought you were so clever? Where are you now?
> 
> 
> No, it's 50 years after 1962 and everybody know Indian Army wants a rematch. You think China won't oblige?
> 
> 
> You folks wish that I am Pakistani so you can go back to dreaming that Indian can scheme on Tibet without consequences.
> 
> *Ah..... no Bharti can come in between the friendship of China and Pakistan! No matter how clever you think you are.*



Dude I could care less if you are Chinese, Martian or anything else. I rather enjoy your posts, please carry on. Have you thought anything about pencil nuke so far?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Brotherhood

doctor_who said:


> *west and rest should realize that more than iraq or iran its china. and chinese people who need democracy.*
> 
> *chinese people are oppressed by their evil govt. and india should also help rest of the world to finish the monster called communist govt. and their military.
> 
> and bring smile to the face of helpless Chinese people.*
> 
> *I hope Chinese people get freedom soon and if India can help it will be a Nobel cause.*




Oh, is that right? do you mean *"Castocracy"?=Caste-system+democracy* 
Some *Indian style "freedom" like your "untouchables"?*
What kind of help we can expected from India? *sanitation campaign* for 650 million people? experience in *"Top the world Hunger chart"?* How to survive by eat*ing mud* for dinner on a daily basis?


----------



## Imran Khan

there will be no such war wake up dudes smell coffee . we need peace.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## kingdurgaking

@TenjikuKensei why waste energy and knowledge on this stupid test..

As per the Chinese bro's claim that India doesn't have 400Kt Nuclear bombs... How many of you are convinced that Israel doesn't have nuclear bomb???...


----------



## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

YEP, i don,t think so any war .... at least no conventional war.


----------



## KS

TenjikuKensei said:


> You have to give it to them for making it seem as it was a "victory" (if one can claim victory if the "victor" vacates the field with no net gains and with the opponent not suing for peace) thanks to some good old propaganda.



Sums it up all 

Man ! It was an awesome post. Keep it up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kafumanpk

Again the war is ridiculous, it will be returned to the two economies of developing countries 100 years ago.


----------



## Major Shaitan Singh

Its a Fantacy of one of our member... I due respect your dream.... now its a time to pour full bucket of water on your face to wake you up....

*GOOD MORNING....*


----------



## IND151

*there will be no war between china and India.* if it occurs both nations will pay enormous price.china and India cant risk their economies. *instead they will try to beat each other in economic field and will do their best to increase their economic power.china and India will rise as economic superpowers andif every thing goes brilliantly then after 4 decades they will be military superpowers.*


----------



## IND151

@HoGandu: dont use such abusive language. let the thread die natural death.


----------



## HongWu

IND151 said:


> *there will be no war between china and India.* if it occurs both nations will pay enormous price.china and India cant risk their economies. *instead they will try to beat each other in economic field and will do their best to increase their economic power.china and India will rise as economic superpowers andif every thing goes brilliantly then after 4 decades they will be military superpowers.*


Does India think it lost 1962 because of "Chinese backstabbing"?

If the answer is "yes"....... then we will go to war again!

Does India think China will not defend Tibet if India makes another grab for it?

If the answer is "yes"....... then we will go to war again!

So let's not delude ourselves (as Indians love to do). Another war is inevitable because India wants to be an empire. It wants to be #1 in Asia by fighting China with US weapons and support.


----------



## IamINDIA

HongWu said:


> Does India think it lost 1962 because of "Chinese backstabbing"?
> 
> If the answer is "yes"....... then we will go to war again!
> 
> Does India think China will not defend Tibet if India makes another grab for it?
> 
> If the answer is "yes"....... then we will go to war again!
> 
> So let's not delude ourselves (as Indians love to do). Another war is inevitable because India wants to be an empire. It wants to be #1 in Asia by fighting China with US weapons and support.



lol hongwu stop with your rantings and call to war and BS like that......... 

if pleases your little war loving brain, I'l tell you that evry indian will defend india till the end,just like they have done on this thread

so if any country wants to attack india they are welcome to come and get some.......



id rather want to think that india would engage in a economic development war;to bring its self on par with china in human development and bring peope out of poverty.china provides good example for our politicians to move towards.I'd rather see china and india having the same friendship the had before the war,even if it meant that tht allaince with the US has to be abandoned.......


----------



## Deepankar

"there is no need to worry about indian indegenous products"

what a crap ....this world do no go by the way the chinese thinks....whole world knows chinese prefer "self reliability" over quality ....none of their military hardware is reliable ....no one knows their exact compatability, capability and and most importantly reliability

most of your warships and fighter jets are reverse engineered products ....you might have more quantity but not the quality ....no reverse engineered product can be made even as capable as the original one

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

LOL. China reverse engineers only the very best. And we only reverse engineer subsystems. Then we combine subsystems to achieve the best possible function. For example, we copied the one-piece canopy of the F-22 and put it on the J-20 stealth fighter! Now we have something even the US doesn't have -- a stealth strike fighter.

India doesn't know what Chinese weapons are capable of..... but PLA does and we are ready to bring our might on the heads of the Indians.

As long as Indians delude themselves that "China invaded Tibet in 1950's" then war is inevitable. In fact, India will start it within 3 to 5 years with another forward policy.


----------



## PoKeMon

HongWu said:


> LOL. China reverse engineers only the very best. And we only reverse engineer subsystems. Then we combine subsystems to achieve the best possible function. For example, we copied the one-piece canopy of the F-22 and put it on the J-20 stealth fighter! Now we have something even the US doesn't have -- a stealth strike fighter..



Is that peak of your delusion or much is left for us to see

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## justanobserver

HongWu said:


> China reverse engineers only the very best. And we only reverse engineer subsystems. Then we combine subsystems to achieve the best possible function.



Yup just like the *Gulsaar*

*Bajaj Pulsar*







Chinese, with _*'superior subsystems*' *Gulsaar*_ 





Couldn't resist this one

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## PoKeMon

HongWu said:


> So let's not delude ourselves (as Indians love to do). Another war is inevitable because India wants to be an empire. It wants to be #1 in Asia by fighting China with US weapons and support.


India have no intentions as such but believe me when it will dream so then it wont come with 303 and mig21 in their hands (as you mention indian arms obsolete).
Be ready for that time and start finding a place for you in Tibbet
because we wont bomb the tibet, we love it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

IND_PAK said:


> Is that peak of your delusion or much is left for us to see


If you don't know, the F-22 is not a strike fighter. The F-35 is a strike fighter but it won't see service for a long time. J-20 will enter service before F-35.


----------



## PoKeMon

HongWu said:


> If you don't know, the F-22 is not a strike fighter. The F-35 is a strike fighter but it won't see service for a long time. J-20 will enter service before F-35.



Sir Hongwu can you tell us what stops F22 to strike the enemy????

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

Do you know what "strike" means? It means air-to-ground. F-22 is for air-to-air. It can't drop bombs without losing stealth advantage.


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> Do you know what "strike" means? It means air-to-ground. F-22 is for air-to-air. *It can't drop bombs without losing stealth advantage*.


Wat about J-20,doesn't J-20 lose stealth advantage while dropping bombs..?


And also how u know about it..
Can u please provide some credible info on that..
like Which engine J-20 uses,how much thrust..

Wat is it RCS..
Which radar..
All those..
Regards


----------



## PoKeMon

HongWu said:


> Do you know what "strike" means? It means air-to-ground. F-22 is for air-to-air. It can't drop bombs without losing stealth advantage.


A little suggestion for you if it works-----
Check the wikipedia atleast and it will works wonder for you.
You dont know anything about F22 and writing false claims on a plane(J-20) which haven't seen an altitude of 100 meters.
Till you comprehend the truth written over there


----------



## J - 50

tallboy123 said:


> Wat about J-20,doesn't J-20 lose stealth advantage while dropping bombs..?
> 
> 
> And also how u know about it..
> Can u please provide some credible info on that..
> like Which engine J-20 uses,how much thrust..
> 
> Wat is it RCS..
> Which radar..
> All those..
> Regards


hongwu watever his name is a pakista... Dont feed the troll ....


----------



## PoKeMon

tallboy123 said:


> Wat about J-20,doesn't J-20 lose stealth advantage while dropping bombs..?
> 
> 
> And also how u know about it..
> Can u please provide some credible info on that..
> like Which engine J-20 uses,how much thrust..
> 
> Wat is it RCS..
> Which radar..
> All those..
> Regards



How dare you question Sir Hongwu
J-20 is the stealthest(RCS .000000001 m2)
It carries invisible 2 megaton nukes
It carries ICBM's.
Uses nuclear powered engine.
and in 2013 indo china war it will single handedly destroy the india.
And dont ask how will they be able to produce the plane by 2013

On topic: Everything said about J xx is mere a speculation and we have to wait to see how much capable it will be.
No doubt it will be far behind F22 but surely will compete with F35.
I will put my money on Pakfa comparing to Jxx.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tallboy123

tallboy123 said:


> Wat about J-20,doesn't J-20 lose stealth advantage while dropping bombs..?
> 
> 
> And also how u know about it..
> Can u please provide some credible info on that..
> like Which engine J-20 uses,how much thrust..
> 
> Wat is it RCS..
> Which radar..
> All those..
> Regards



HongWu i am waiting for ur info on these questions...
I feel ur a credible source..
Please do take care to answer my questions..
Regards


----------



## ganimi kawa

HongWu said:


> *Now we have something even the US doesn't have -- a stealth strike fighter.*



*Wrong,* can you identify this flying thingy? *It flew way before any J20 and was a strike fighter!*










Come on general Hong Wu, You can do better than that!

*Also, if you believe that The J20 will be inducted before the F35............*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## tallboy123

^^The image is not veiwable


----------



## prototype

HongWu said:


> Do you know what "strike" means? It means air-to-ground. F-22 is for air-to-air. It can't drop bombs without losing stealth advantage.



What do u actually mean by strike,multi role or just bomber?

Anyway they is no point in comparing the failed F-22 and F-35 against the superior invincible 25th generation J-20,so much advanced,so stealthy that it is hardly visible,I mean not even in Chinese hangers

The only way to locate is through the advanced Photoshop radar which to Chinese have in plenty but the rest of the world lack


----------



## ganimi kawa

alex mercer said:


> What do u actually mean by strike,multi role or just bomber?



I think he meant strike optimised multi role craft, but that is for us mortals to add!

P.S. Thanks tallboy for the alert about the image. (vvvvvv)


----------



## tallboy123

^^yes it is

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

tallboy123 said:


> Wat about J-20,doesn't J-20 lose stealth advantage while dropping bombs..?
> 
> 
> And also how u know about it..
> Can u please provide some credible info on that..
> like Which engine J-20 uses,how much thrust..
> 
> Wat is it RCS..
> Which radar..
> All those..
> Regards


Right now it is flying with FWS10A class engines ~132 kN thrust. Later, it will be upgraded to 5th generation engines with >150 kN thrust (goal is 180 kN).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_WS-15

Radar is AESA, probably made by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET).

RCS.... I've read estimate of <0.05 m frontal RCS. It is a "very-low observable" design like F-22.


----------



## PoKeMon

HongWu said:


> Right now it is flying with FWS10A class engines ~132 kN thrust. Later, it will be upgraded to 5th generation engines with >150 kN thrust (goal is 180 kN).
> 
> Shenyang WS-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Radar is AESA, probably made by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET).
> 
> RCS.... I've read estimate of <0.05 m frontal RCS. It is a "very-low observable" design like F-22.



Engine--- not a 5 th gen yet
Radar---- only PROBABLE
RCS-- not even close to F35

Still Sir Hongwu's Jxx is something US will envy for

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> Right now it is flying with FWS10A class engines ~132 kN thrust. Later, it will be upgraded to 5th generation engines with >150 kN thrust (goal is 180 kN).
> 
> Shenyang WS-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Radar is AESA, probably made by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET).
> *
> .... I've RCSread estimate of <0.05 m frontal RCS. It is a "very-low observable" design like F-22*.




The things u said are from Wikipedia...
And Wikipedia has taken the lines from strategycenter.net...
It's a blog...

In Wikipedia page u can see reference section there is a link names spec's click on that u will be taken to strategycenter.net blog

Blogs are not proofs Mr hongWu

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ajtr

HongWu said:


> Does India think it lost 1962 because of "Chinese backstabbing"?
> 
> If the answer is "yes"....... then we will go to war again!
> 
> Does India think China will not defend Tibet if India makes another grab for it?
> 
> If the answer is "yes"....... then we will go to war again!
> 
> So let's not delude ourselves (as Indians love to do). Another war is inevitable because India wants to be an empire. It wants to be #1 in Asia by fighting China with US weapons and support.


There wont be another war coz...................................


*India lacks gumption​*
January 04, 2011 7:29:12 AM

SUNANDA K DATTA-RAY

New Delhis willing-to-wound-afraid-to-strike attitude towards Beijing doesn't suggest a robust candidate for the world's high table

A recent lunch at one of our Raj Bhavans exposed an anomaly that might be more than ceremonial. When the Rajyapal ushered in the Dalai Lama, all of us dutifully stood up for Jana Mana Gana. Listening to the familiar strains, I wondered what the Tibetan national anthem which I expected to follow sounded like. But lo and behold! no Tibetan national anthem was played. Indias anthem over, we formed a line to be received by His Holiness.

This intriguing breach of protocol reflected a confusion that, one hopes, will be cleared in the New Year. It indicated an anomalous self-view and an inability to shape a realistic foreign policy to realise Indias national aims. The routine was especially curious because a senior official from New Delhi had told me earlier that the Dalai Lama enjoys the status of a visiting head of state. If so, his national anthem should have been played immediately after the host countrys. That norm is followed at national day celebrations in New Delhi and State capitals. 

It is possible  though unlikely  that the Tibetan administration doesnt have a national anthem. Or that though it has one, the Dalai Lama has decided that it need not be played when it should so that New Delhi isnt embarrassed. But both seem unlikely since the Dalai Lama has a standard and flies it. In fact, the Dharamsala administration has all the trappings of statehood, and will soon even boast an elected Prime Minister. Watching the start of the process in Brussels some months ago, it occurred to me that while territorial Tibet might be a vassal of the Peoples Republic of China, the exiled administration, with representatives in major world capitals, is acquiring all the trappings of a virtual state. 

The staggered elections also reveal the extent to which even the diaspora is subject to diplomatic vicissitudes. The seizure of Tibetan ballot boxes in Nepal received extensive coverage; apparently, similar restrictive measures in Bhutan passed unnoticed. Since the actions in both countries are attributed to Chinese pressure rather than indigenous sentiment, Kathmandu and Thimphu cannot be blamed too much. Small landlocked countries like Nepal and Bhutan cannot logically be expected to defy a bigger neighbour without some assurance of alternative support. India alone could have offered countervailing reassurance, but obviously did not.

What does this say of External Affairs Ministry thinking? What does it portend for the future? The questions acquire additional relevance in the light of the controversy over the Nobel Peace Prize awarded to the dissident Chinese writer, Mr Liu Xiaobo. The 19 countries that boycotted the Oslo ceremony are at par with the 23 countries that still recognise Taiwan as China. Both groups have decided that it pays them most to be on a particular side. But India on the cusp of change is not quite the Caribbean state of St Vincent and the Grenadines which has maintained unbroken diplomatic ties with Taiwan for 25 years. Nor is it Pakistan which boycotted the Oslo ceremony because it needs China to bolster the anti-India position that has become almost its only raison detre. 

A country that prides itself on being the worlds largest democracy, which has formidable scientific and technological achievements to its credit and makes no secret (which is tactical foolishness) of its great power aspirations, need not succumb to pressure. Nor need it go out of its way to strike moral positions. India has shown realism over Myanmar and Palestine, setting aside previous positions based on idealism that offered no political dividend. But that adherence to the old adage about countries having permanent interests and not permanent friends will not in itself realise Indias goal unless vigorous steps are also immediately taken to address domestic abuses. 

It did not need the WikiLeaks secret US State Department documents to tell us that the police and security forces are overworked and hampered by bad police practices, including widespread use of torture in interrogations, rampant corruption, poor training, and a general inability to conduct solid forensic investigations. Indeed, a Uttar Pradesh judge long ago denounced the States police force as the largest group of uniformed criminals in the country.

No wonder the American memorandum is so scathing. Indias security forces also regularly cut corners to avoid working through Indias lagging justice system, which has approximately 13 judges per million people. Thus, Indian police officials often do not respond to our requests for information about attacks or about offers of support because they are covering up poor practices, rather than rejecting our help outright. Surprisingly, there was no mention of ramshackle courtrooms, dilatory court officials, exploitative lawyers and  as is now emerging  venal judges even at the highest levels.

Police inefficiency and worse can be blamed on State Governments, but the Americans are equally sceptical about Indias armed forces, dismissing the so-called Cold Start Doctrine  a rapid, short and limited reprisal attack against Pakistan  as a mixture of myth and reality. Ambassador Timothy Roemer does not think Indias armed forces would ever be able to carry out such an operation, and that its theoretical existence only gives psychological comfort to the authors in Delhi. The value of the doctrine to the Government of India may lie more in the plans existence than in any real-world application.

Mr Roemers reason for analysing Indias effectiveness or otherwise is to find reasons for the Governments reluctance wholeheartedly to throw in its lot with American strategic measures. That is not of paramount interest to Indians. What matters far more to us is that a weak Army, Navy and Air Force, a corrupt and ineffective police and a dilatory and costly judiciary means that the ordinary Indian is without protection in his own country. 

Add to that the diplomatic wobbling evident in promises that the Dalai Lama will not be allowed to indulge in politics and claims that he does not run a Government in exile. If New Delhi really doesnt want the Tibetans, let it unambiguously say so and deport the lot. If the only reason for accommodating them is humanitarian, that, too, could be made explicit. But the willing-to-wound-afraid-to-strike attitude that the national anthem episode illustrated didnt suggest a robust candidate for the worlds high table. It indicated a country that is afraid of its own shadow as it steps diffidently into 2011.


----------



## HongWu

ajtr said:


> There wont be another war coz...................................
> 
> 
> *India lacks gumption​*


India's true nature is cowardly but it makes up by self-delusion.

*As long as India believes it is a peer-competitor to China, war is inevitable because India will demand China to treat it as a true equal.* If India and China were true equals, China will have to give into Indian demands on Southern Tibet (Arunachal Pradesh) and J+K, as well as probably curtail military relationship with Pakistan.

However, *China will not treat India as a true equal because India is just a third-world hole with a big mouth.* India doesn't realize that it is just a third-world hole with a big mouth because it is self-delusional and has no grasp of reality. This is much exacerbated by Western flattery and arms sales. 

So India responds to China's "unequal treatment" with hostility and ultimately it will try to demonstrate its "superpower" status with war. *So the lesson of 1962 will be taught again 50 years later!*

It is completely inevitable......... however, China should be careful because those foreign imported weapons in India's hands really do deal a lot of damage. It is fortunate that China's technology is as advanced as it is to be able to counter and defeat India's high-quality imports.


----------



## mautkimaut

HongWu said:


> India's true nature is cowardly but it makes up by self-delusion.
> 
> *As long as India believes it is a peer-competitor to China, war is inevitable because India will demand China to treat it as a true equal.* If India and China were true equals, China will have to give into Indian demands on Southern Tibet (Arunachal Pradesh) and J+K, as well as probably curtail military relationship with Pakistan.
> 
> However, *China will not treat India as a true equal because India is just a third-world hole with a big mouth.* India doesn't realize that it is just a third-world hole with a big mouth because it is self-delusional and has no grasp of reality. This is much exacerbated by Western flattery and arms sales.
> 
> So India responds to China's "unequal treatment" with hostility and ultimately it will try to demonstrate its "superpower" status with war. *So the lesson of 1962 will be taught again 50 years later!*
> 
> It is completely inevitable......... however, China should be careful because those foreign imported weapons in India's hands really do deal a lot of damage. It is fortunate that China's technology is as advanced as it is to be able to counter and defeat India's high-quality imports.



Why are you so against Indians?Did any Indian bully u at school?


----------



## HongWu

^ Did you not read the article? The article explains why India is a clear and present danger to China.


----------



## GareebNawaz

^^ because we are third world hole we are a clear and present threat to China? haha biggest BS i have ever heard. You should think thrice before even attempting any war with India. Do not think you will get the whole world'd support if you attack India( we indian have no intention of attacking first). Calm down you loser and stop posting BS articles of your so called "delusion" influenced articles that dreams beating India will be a breeze. Get a life, respcet your neighbors because we respect China (at least I do), and think about how you can help the world rather than posting hate articles against India. Mods please delete this thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## destinyindia

love to see the chinese insecurity on this forum.. they really fear India as it is rising ...


----------



## HongWu

Troller said:


> Get a life, respcet your neighbors because we respect China (*at least I do*), and think about how you can help the world rather than posting hate articles against India.


You are not a typical Indian. I guess you are not in India or spent time outside of India. So you know that India really is a third world hole, nothing like the Indian media describes.

But the 1+ billion Indians living in India are bombarded every day with propaganda claiming:

(1) They are a rising superpower and almost on par with China.

(2) China is much weaker than it says it is. There is a lot of Chinese boasting.

(3) With the help of the West (like arms sales), India is actually much stronger than China.

(4) The Chinese do not see India as a true equal. It continues to claim arunachal pradesh, mess around with Kashmir and ally with Pakistan.

(5) A rising, powerful India must not accept Chinese arrogance. India must teach China a lesson with another "forward policy" (so much for India is never the aggressor)!

*India has deluded itself into a corner. There is no choice now except another forward policy. Then we will see just how great a superpower India really is compared to China.*


----------



## T90TankGuy

HongWu said:


> You are not a typical Indian. I guess you are not in India or spent time outside of India. So you know that India really is a third world hole, nothing like the Indian media describes.
> 
> But the 1+ billion Indians living in India are bombarded every day with propaganda claiming:
> 
> (1) They are a rising superpower and almost on par with China.
> 
> (2) China is much weaker than it says it is. There is a lot of Chinese boasting.
> 
> (3) With the help of the West (like arms sales), India is actually much stronger than China.
> 
> (4) The Chinese do not see India as a true equal. It continues to claim arunachal pradesh, mess around with Kashmir and ally with Pakistan.
> 
> (5) A rising, powerful India must not accept Chinese arrogance. India must teach China a lesson with another "forward policy" (so much for India is never the aggressor)!
> 
> *India has deluded itself into a corner. There is no choice now except another forward policy. Then we will see just how great a superpower India really is compared to China.*




IF you dont mind me asking where have you got these delusions from ? have you ever been to india? 

look kid its one thing to have a fantsy but another to sprout pureBS every time you type a sentence . go eat your food and go to sleep , tomorrow is a school day and you should not be late.

on a more serious note if you ever come to india you will realise india actually like chinese people and what they have done for their country. i love your diciplin and the fact you guys have the drive to be the largest economy . we emulate you guys in many ways . so really get your facts straight then talk .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Guynextdoor

HongWu said:


> India's true nature is cowardly but it makes up by self-delusion.
> 
> *As long as India believes it is a peer-competitor to China, war is inevitable because India will demand China to treat it as a true equal.* If India and China were true equals, China will have to give into Indian demands on Southern Tibet (Arunachal Pradesh) and J+K, as well as probably curtail military relationship with Pakistan.
> 
> However, *China will not treat India as a true equal because India is just a third-world hole with a big mouth.* India doesn't realize that it is just a third-world hole with a big mouth because it is self-delusional and has no grasp of reality. This is much exacerbated by Western flattery and arms sales.
> 
> So India responds to China's "unequal treatment" with hostility and ultimately it will try to demonstrate its "superpower" status with war. *So the lesson of 1962 will be taught again 50 years later!*
> 
> It is completely inevitable......... however, China should be careful because those foreign imported weapons in India's hands really do deal a lot of damage. It is fortunate that China's technology is as advanced as it is to be able to counter and defeat India's high-quality imports.


China is nowhere near the levels you claim to make such silly statements. If you think that you're gonna have a cakewalk with a 1.5 M strong army, I can asssure you there's no way on eatrh you're gonna win the war on our soil- we'll kick the c**p out of you. We aren't keen on going to war coz it's just not worth it. 

You wanna know if India's true nature is 'cowardly'? Go back to WW2 and check who kicked the c**p out of the japanese and who was at the recieving end. That makes your 1962 victory look like a joke doesn't it?


----------



## Guynextdoor

HongWu said:


> ^ Did you not read the article? The article explains why India is a clear and present danger to China.


Were you born with an IQ of 10 or is this something that happened to you along the way?


----------



## somebozo

Guynextdoor said:


> You wanna know if India's true nature is 'cowardly'? Go back to WW2 and check who kicked the c**p out of the japanese and who was at the recieving end. That makes your 1962 victory look like a joke doesn't it?



You cannot claim them as Indian victory because the British hired exclusively from martial races and gorkha jawans!


----------



## NmHqh2JbVo

somebozo said:


> You cannot claim them as Indian victory because the British hired exclusively from martial races and gorkha jawans!



Fascinating. War/conflicts? Mobilized troop counts, casualties, Japanese strategic goals in India? How many encounters?


----------



## Guynextdoor

somebozo said:


> You cannot claim them as Indian victory because the British hired exclusively from martial races and gorkha jawans!


I know, the Sikhs, The Rajputs, The Maratha, The Madras Sappers (230 Yr old now) and Bengal (pretty much covers north, east, south & west) who've been walking all over your army and stomping them in every battle don't fight. That's why the british never 'hired' them-- they just formed hundred + year old regiments for fun.

Your ignorant rantings are perpetual.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kingdurgaking

HongWu said:


> (1) They are a rising superpower and almost on par with China.
> 
> (2) China is much weaker than it says it is. There is a lot of Chinese boasting.
> [/B]



Believe it or not as per the outside world like US.. there are two products.. one is quality product(japan, korea, thailand etc) other is chinese product (Not quality)..

China is weak.. If it is very strong.. it would have taken arunachal from us long back..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IND151

china is strong but so is India.* if war breaks out, china will not face an unexperienced army as they faced in 1962 but a experienced army which has lot experience of mountain warfare and has nuclear weapons, strategic bombers and nuclear missiles.US will place embargo on china. Indian army will defeat pla.*Indian navy will sink Chinese cargo ships in Indian oceans and will also destroy ships which supply millions of gallons fuel to china . this will be a huge blow to Chinese economy.*PLAN cant challenge Indian navy in bay of Bengal or arebian sea coz its not blue water navy nor it has aircraft carrier. so its better for china to not fight with India.*


----------



## airuah

a lot of people have some growing up to do.....


----------



## HongWu

kingdurgaking said:


> Believe it or not as per the outside world like US.. there are two products.. one is quality product(japan, korea, thailand etc) other is chinese product (Not quality)..
> 
> China is weak.. If it is very strong.. it would have taken arunachal from us long back..





Guynextdoor said:


> China is nowhere near the levels you claim to make such silly statements.





IND151 said:


> china is strong but so is India. if war breaks out,* china will not face an unexperienced army as they faced in 1962 but a experienced army which has lot experience of mountain warfare and has nuclear weapons, strategic bombers and nuclear missiles. * US will pace embargo on china. Indian army will defeat pla. *Indian navy will sink Chinese cargo ships in Indian oceans and will also destroy ships which supply millions of gallons fuel to china . this will be a huge blow to Chinese economy.PLAN cant challenge Indian navy in bay of Bengal or arebian sea coz its not blue water navy nor it has aircraft carrier. so its better for china to not fight with India.*


I am glad you think India is a peer competitor to China. 

So the next step is for you to assert your rising superpower with a forward policy on Tibet, right? Don't you just want to get a hold of Tibet for the glorious Hindu empire? 

PLA is waiting. Our stealth fighter is waiting. Our nuclear tipped missiles are waiting. C'mon India, stop being such a coward and come show China the 21st century belongs to India.... the biggest most vibrant democracy in the world.


----------



## Guynextdoor

^^^ kids....


----------



## kingdurgaking

HongWu said:


> I am glad you think India is a peer competitor to China.
> 
> So the next step is for you to assert your rising superpower with a forward policy on Tibet, right? Don't you just want to get a hold of Tibet for the glorious Hindu empire?
> 
> PLA is waiting. Our stealth fighter is waiting. Our nuclear tipped missiles are waiting. *C'mon India, stop being such a coward and come show China the 21st century belongs to India*.... the biggest most vibrant democracy in the world.



 we will do what we like.. cntrl your emotion....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ksgokul

HongWu said:


> You are not a typical Indian. I guess you are not in India or spent time outside of India. So you know that India really is a third world hole, nothing like the Indian media describes.
> 
> But the 1+ billion Indians living in India are bombarded every day with propaganda claiming:
> 
> (1) They are a rising superpower and almost on par with China.
> 
> (2) China is much weaker than it says it is. There is a lot of Chinese boasting.
> 
> (3) With the help of the West (like arms sales), India is actually much stronger than China.
> 
> (4) The Chinese do not see India as a true equal. It continues to claim arunachal pradesh, mess around with Kashmir and ally with Pakistan.
> 
> (5) A rising, powerful India must not accept Chinese arrogance. India must teach China a lesson with another "forward policy" (so much for India is never the aggressor)!
> 
> *India has deluded itself into a corner. There is no choice now except another forward policy. Then we will see just how great a superpower India really is compared to China.*



There are also opinions that China is a much bigger power than India. Indian Navy admiral has gone on record saying that the Indian armed forces cannot be considered equal to China. So in a democracy there will be a lot of opinions on either side. It is upto the governments to act responsibly. 

I am perfectly convinced that Chinese government is a very reasonable government even during the days of 1962. I am confident you are not a rising political icon in China, as your views seem to Contradict that of China. 

But considering a partner equal need not be only considered based on Military terms.


----------



## GareebNawaz

HongWu said:


> You are not a typical Indian. I guess you are not in India or spent time outside of India. So you know that India really is a third world hole, nothing like the Indian media describes.
> 
> But the 1+ billion Indians living in India are bombarded every day with propaganda claiming:
> 
> (1) They are a rising superpower and almost on par with China.
> 
> (2) China is much weaker than it says it is. There is a lot of Chinese boasting.
> 
> (3) With the help of the West (like arms sales), India is actually much stronger than China.
> 
> (4) The Chinese do not see India as a true equal. It continues to claim arunachal pradesh, mess around with Kashmir and ally with Pakistan.
> 
> (5) A rising, powerful India must not accept Chinese arrogance. India must teach China a lesson with another "forward policy" (so much for India is never the aggressor)!
> 
> *India has deluded itself into a corner. There is no choice now except another forward policy. Then we will see just how great a superpower India really is compared to China.*



A. You are not typical chinese, either
B. I never said India is third world hole, rather just repeat what you implied.
C. We will never be agressor because us Indians don't believe in fighting.
D. Stop deluding yourself that India itself is deluded.
E.We know what our military is and you know what you are. keep it at that and we will be great friends.
F. i live in USA but i have lived in India most of my life and i know most Indian media is just BS. But i'd rather have BS from public than BS from state controlled media glorifying its nation  (no i dont mean that really dont get the wrong idea HongWu). Most chinese that are my friends are very nice and very smart, and overral very good people who know how to make good food. We both believe our gov't's is F***ed up. We HOWEVER never mention nay WAR between our countries.


----------



## applesauce

Hardcore Gamer said:


> C. We will never be agressor because us Indians don't believe in fighting.



neither does china, then no problems?

but one of your fellow Indians write the following:


"china is strong but so is India. if war breaks out, china will not face an unexperienced army as they faced in 1962 but a experienced army which has lot experience of mountain warfare and has nuclear weapons, strategic bombers and nuclear missiles. US will pace embargo on china. Indian army will defeat pla. Indian navy will sink Chinese cargo ships in Indian oceans and will also destroy ships which supply millions of gallons fuel to china . this will be a huge blow to Chinese economy.PLAN cant challenge Indian navy in bay of Bengal or arebian sea coz its not blue water navy nor it has aircraft carrier. so its better for china to not fight with India."

1. assumes that india has so much more experience than china

2. forgets that china has bigger and better nukes in greater numbers on superior delivery platforms

3. embargo china? thats is again assuming china invades for no reason which china would not do not to mention this will lead to the collapse of the global economy.

4. indian army will defeat pla? hahahahahahah okay there

5. destroy Chinese ships? that is indeed a major worry hence the large naval build up(including refuel points) and the building of lines from russia and central asia, however there is no way india can enforce fully a naval blockade of the indian ocean and its one carrier is nothing more than a display piece given the inadequate escorts and well you have no planes for it right now.


----------



## CardSharp

TenjikuKensei said:


> Edit: CS I have posted these on the Concentrating forces/62 thread as I believe that thread would be better suited for this discussion than the current one.
> 
> 
> 
> I have found that it is almost always a must to verify such claims, regardless of their origin. To merely state what one reads somewhere without verifying the validity of it might lead to such erroneous statements. The officer makes a rather silly claim about Indian military history in that regard. One wonders about his knowledge given such a breathtaking display of ignorance about probably one of the biggest empires in Indian history, and the Only Indian empire to have brought SEA under its rule...in fact according to historians it was one of the preeminent Naval and Military powers during the 11 and 12th centuries in the world.
> 
> Either the officer is ignorant about a major part of the military history of India, and/or he conveniently leaves aside such facts in order to push his pet theory. I believe that in reality this was a mixture of both ignorance as well as willful denial of facts just so he could ride his hobby horse of how "South Asians" mostly suck at military matters. An opening chapter like that does not exactly shore up the credentials of the Author.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Cavalry analogy does fit this particular situation, as my explanations would show later on, in this post. Keep in mind that I explicitly refrained from using the ww2 Blitz analogy as it would certainly not fit this one
> 
> Btw, I have read the Thread you had on this issue a couple of months back, when you provided me the link to it. I was hard pressed for time at that time and was not able to reply to it, however I did read through every single page of the pdfs as well as the thread itself.
> 
> *Quote 1*
> 
> 
> 
> The part quoted in blue is merely setting the stage for the "story" as told by the writer. Inscrutably Oriental means absolutely nothing except to hark back to the old Kipling-ish notions of the East...and to raise an aura of mystery and suspense..what better way for the writer to rope in some more readers
> 
> The part in bold was mostly true.
> 
> And the part in Red was not. Here is where I fundamentally Disagree.
> Ill expand more on this later.
> 
> *Quote 2*
> 
> 
> The above is pure Propaganda to explain away the inevitable(I'm sorry if this sounds blunt, but one has to call a spade a spade). For the simple fact that the PLA could not have held on to the territory taken, let alone take more. Again ill answer this later.
> 
> *Quote 3*
> 
> 
> I would not be surprised if Nehru actually was surprised...after all he was clueless when it came to military matters.
> 
> *Quote 4*
> 
> 
> This statement is patently wrong. Some "closer examination" indeed.
> 
> 
> Now that I have set the template for my post, ill go ahead and address them in detail.
> 
> 
> A picture is worth a thousand words, so allow me to provide one of the region where the conflict took place.
> 
> 
> The answer to why China Withdrew, is as simple as that ^^. However, lets continue
> 
> I reiterate what I posted on my previous post. An army marches on its stomach. Some salient points to note
> 
> *Point 1:*
> The conflict was limited to infantry engagements.No tanks, No air force
> 
> *Point 2:*
> The Assam plains...as the name implies (and as you can see in the topographical map provided above) are exactly that...plains.
> 
> *Point 3:*
> America was sending Airsupport in the form of bombers and fighter aircraft to India, and the first of these units were already on their way when China "Unilaterally" withdrew. Russia on the other hand supported India on this issue as well, and this was the time when China and Russia were at loggerheads.
> 
> *Point 3.1*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now let us revisit Quotes 1 and 4
> 
> 
> *Quote 1*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese forces, if they ever set foot on the Assam plains would have been walking into certain defeat. Pls refer to the map provided. There is No way for the Chinese military to bring tanks or heavy weapons...While on the other hand, the Indian troops would be able to. Furthermore the Chinese forces would not only have to face heavy weapons with infantry alone, they will also have to suffer under complete air-superiority held by American and Indian air forces. The Heavy bombing the PLA underwent in Korea was not a pleasant experience...but at lest over there they had far far shorter supply and logistics lines to China than they would have in Assam...in fact the Chinese war reserves would be exhausted in days if not weeks of sustained fighting in that region.
> 
> 
> This is not mere speculation, but solely based on facts.(You are free to point out any mistakes). Any trickle of supplies that made through nearly 1000km of mountainous terrain would not suffice...not by a long shot
> 
> 
> Otoh the Indian forces would be in a far better position, doubly so because their supply lines would be much shorter....would in fact be much more mobile due to American supply airdrops/logistics, and also to the fact that they can and would use heavy weapons/vehicles against an enemy that is made up on infantry units...and is also bingo ammo and supplies!
> 
> There is no way for the PLA to do a Hannibal and bring Tanks(instead of elephants) over the mountains into this region.
> 
> And no..there is simply no way...especially in 62 that China could have supplied a fighting force in Assam. I distinctly remember reading a Chinese account of the 1962 conflict(I will go over the stuff I have right with me now and see if it was from one of those sources or from some other book)where it is mentioned that mortar/artillery shells and other supplies had to be built up on the Chinese/India border just before the 1962 conflict through backbreaking labor of men and mules....literally...men used to carry mortar shells on their backs...they were the only things that could bring supplies to such a region..and keep in mind that these man-mule supply trains have to be literally hundreds of kms long.Also keep in mind that that there were no rail lines on the Chinese side for hundreds of miles from the border.The Indian side had at least two going right up the Assam plains.(pic provided for reference)
> 
> 
> The Indians, backed with American airpower (even without it) would have no trouble defeating a force that is purely infantry and is almost zero ammo/supplies if it sets foot in the Assam plains.Also refer to point 3.1
> 
> 
> This is the very same reason that the Allies during ww2 (who had logistical capabilities orders of magnitudes greater than the PLA during 1962) did not try to invade Germany/France through Italy, even though they had invaded and occupied Italy long before the Normandy invasion. Again, the answer is very simple...mountains. And compared to the mountains and logistical challenges the Allies would have faced, the one faced by PLA would have been orders of magnitudes bigger
> 
> 
> ^^ see the similarity? Hell Invasion of Europe via Italy would have been a cakewalk compared to the logistical challenges faced by the PLA in the Indo China war.
> 
> Thus my previous post still stands, notwithstanding some baseless claims made by writers who do not look at the bigger military picture and are more concerned about "sensationalist" proclamations.
> 
> 
> Its a "fact" that the PLA HAD to withdraw or face crushing defeat. In military conflicts around the world, entire armies have fallen due to their own weight...due to lack of supplies. Without supplies, an army is not an army anymore than a writer is a writer without a pen. It would be useless.
> 
> 
> Thus in conclusion we can see why "QUOTE 2" was nothing but propaganda. I could go into more detail about this, but I believe I have made my points sufficiently well. I am yet to see any evidence or explanation as to how the PLA could have continued on fighting.....Even without American aid the supply lines from Assam plains to the Arunachal Pradesh border is a few hundred kilometers....for the PLA nearly a 1000. They did well initially, but would have definitly lost a protracted war in that region not for lack of "valour" but for the previously stated reasons. They "saved face" by declaring a unilateral withdrawal which resulted in no net gain to China..and in fact benefited the Indian army in more concrete ways over the years. As I pointed out in my previous post, the Chinese withdrawal is simply to cut its losses when it lost the beginners advantage, and would have to face diminishing returns, and eventual defeat if it were to have followed through on its invasion. You have to give it to them for making it seem as it was a "victory" (if one can claim victory if the "victor" vacates the field with no net gains and with the opponent not suing for peace) thanks to some good old propaganda.
> 
> 
> I would gladly answer any valid points you have against this course of events which imho would not have been merely possible, but would have been inevitable.(i meant the withdrawal of the PLA lest it wanted to face defeat).I am aware that you do know a bit about lines of communication..supplies and other stuff regarding warfare, so I'm sure you will look at the cold hard facts than quote reporters who are clueless as to to the subject they are dealing with...and are more concerned about sensationalist news items than factual ones.



I'll move the discussion to the other thread as you suggested, but right off...



> Point 1:
> The conflict was limited to infantry engagements.No tanks, No air force



If you read the order of battle, the IA had two light tank battlions. You can characterize the fighting as you like, but sourced to publications of some sort at least, not just general hearsay. 




> Point 2:
> The Assam plains...as the name implies (and as you can see in the topographical map provided above) are exactly that...plains.



ok? 



> Point 3:
> America was sending Airsupport in the form of bombers and fighter aircraft to India, and the first of these units were already on their way when China "Unilaterally" withdrew. Russia on the other hand supported India on this issue as well, and this was the time when China and Russia were at loggerheads.



Again no sourcing. I see this all the time. From what I've read from the notable historical publications and declassified CIA brief readily available (available here for you and everyone else with a internet connection http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-09.pdf), no such support was offered. 

As for the USSR, they declared neutrality in that conflict and such a declaration of neutrality is tantamount to support for China, given the political situation before hand. 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/CJB.htm













This is another case of the imaginary IA divisions. Members here in a similar discussion made up "two IA divisions" which was poised to come into the battle during 1962 after the Indian collapse and cited this as the reason why China withdrew. Every Indian was very eager in support this claim and cited it over and over, but when I press the originator of the claim for a reference, he had none. 

Is this the same shoddy scholarship that I am suppose to accept? All I see is specious reasoning based on general intuition and unintelligible analogies (Hannibal and elephants? PLA tactics and cavalry tactics?) Drawing proper analogies, requires an understanding of what you are describing. 

Also, most of your arguments are premised on China wanting a total war against India (including invasion of India proper) and how it was logistically unable. Fine an invasion of India proper would have been untenable (even though military resistance had effective ceased) but the onus is on your to provide evidence that China wanted more than just to rebuff Indian ambitions on its territory.

China was forced to a limited war, It fought a limited war, won a limited war.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

CardSharp said:


> This is another case of the imaginary IA divisions. Members here in a similar discussion made up "two IA divisions" which was poised to come into the battle during 1962 after the Indian collapse and cited this as the reason why China withdrew. Every Indian was very eager in support this claim and cited it over and over, but when I press the originator of the claim for a reference, he had none.
> 
> Is this the same shoddy scholarship that I am suppose to accept? All I see is specious reasoning based on general intuition and unintelligible analogies (Hannibal and elephants? PLA tactics and cavalry tactics?) Drawing proper analogies, requires an understanding of what you are describing.
> 
> Also, most of your arguments are premised on China wanting a total war against India (including invasion of India proper) and how it was logistically unable. Fine an invasion of India proper would have been untenable (even though military resistance had effective ceased) but the onus is on your to provide evidence that China wanted more than just to rebuff Indian ambitions on its territory.
> 
> China was forced to a limited war, It fought a limited war, won a limited war.



The the reason that China retreat could be attribute to two reason. The biggest reason is the end of the Cuban missile crisis. US sent an aircraft carrier there to Indian ocean to support India. But a bigger reason could be the logistic support of PLA cannot support further advancement or even occupation of the territories taken at least in the Eastern Front. So China choose to retreat. 

So its the US and geography that caused China to retreat. Not any imaginary Indian divisions. If US did not get involved and China can support their troops, the North Indian plain was totally wide open to PLA. Delhi was riped for picking. The scenario of the route is similar to German invasion of France in 1940. Germany had the logistics and the French had to open Paris to the Germans to save their city.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CardSharp

faithfulguy said:


> The the reason that China retreat could be attribute to two reason. The biggest reason is the end of the Cuban missile crisis. US sent an aircraft carrier there to Indian ocean to support India. But a bigger reason could be the logistic support of PLA cannot support further advancement or even occupation of the territories taken at least in the Eastern Front. So China choose to retreat.
> 
> So its the US and geography that caused China to retreat. Not any imaginary Indian divisions. If US did not get involved and China can support their troops, the North Indian plain was totally wide open to PLA. Delhi was riped for picking. The scenario of the route is similar to German invasion of France in 1940. Germany had the logistics and the French had to open Paris to the Germans to save their city.



You're making the same mistake that these Indians are. China wanted to beat some sense into Nehru, not occupy India. China only sent 80,000 troops (a small force by the manpower reliant PLA standards). It was not meant to be an invasion, it was meant to stop Nehru from pursuing his idiotic forward policy and to bring India to the negoitating table. 

India and western observers at the time thought it was a full scale invasion only because of the quick success the PLA had against the Indian Army (Delhi was in a panic, assumed it was a full invasion force). After the 7th brigade (the best in the IA at the time) was routed, and 3 brigades cut off/disintegrated, effective resistance ceased on the whole sector. It was an unexpected victory, that caught the PLA war planners by surprise.

When the time came, as PLA had to decided how to exploit this victory, they realize they gotten as much as they could of it and further military action would jeopardize China's political aims, ie further fight could have escalated the situation into a superpower war and make future settlement with India on matter more difficult.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pak_Sher

India should focus on its own development and not try to counter and compete with China in every scenario which I see that India and Indians in general try to do. India will never be able to defeat China militarily. 

Though there is not a chance, but if Pakistan saw in a military conflict that China was loosing then Pakistan will have to open another war front with India and there is no way the Indian military can sustain a two-front war.


----------



## faithfulguy

CardSharp said:


> You're making the same mistake that these Indians are. China wanted to beat some sense into Nehru, not occupy India. China only sent 80,000 troops (a small force by the manpower reliant PLA standards). It was not meant to be an invasion, it was meant to stop Nehru from pursuing his idiotic forward policy and to bring India to the negoitating table.
> 
> India and western observers at the time thought it was a full scale invasion only because of the quick success the PLA had against the Indian Army (Delhi was in a panic, assumed it was a full invasion force). After the 7th brigade (the best in the IA at the time) was routed, and 3 brigades cut off/disintegrated, effective resistance ceased on the whole sector. It was an unexpected victory, that caught the PLA war planners by surprise.
> 
> When the time came, as PLA had to decided how to exploit this victory, they realize they gotten as much as they could of it and further military action would jeopardize China's political aims, ie further fight could have escalated the situation into a superpower war and make future settlement with India on matter more difficult.



Maybe the Chinese leadership had no intension of mouting a full scale invasion of India. However, the opportunity definitely did present itself for such an action after the complete collapse of the Indian army. As you said, because of the quick advancement of the PLA, it appears to many outside observer that PLA intented to thrust into the Indian heartland. But PLA didn't planned and also was not capable of taking advantages of its victories. So the only direction for the PLA was to retreat after it had achieve its objective. 

This is a decisive victory as PLA achieve all its objective, not unlike the first gulf war when US was successful at evicting Saddam Hussein from Kuwait without marching onto Bagdad.


----------



## CardSharp

Pak_Sher said:


> India should focus on its own development and not try to counter and compete with China in every scenario which I see that India and Indians in general try to do.



People often excuse this kind of competing and comparing by saying China should be flattered. We're not...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

faithfulguy said:


> Maybe the Chinese leadership had no intension of mouting a full scale invasion of India. However, the opportunity definitely did present itself for such an action after the complete collapse of the Indian army. As you said, because of the quick advancement of the PLA, it appears to many outside observer that PLA intented to thrust into the Indian heartland. *But PLA didn't planned and also was not capable of taking advantages of its victories. *So the only direction for the PLA was to retreat after it had achieve its objective.
> 
> This is a decisive victory as PLA achieve all its objective, not unlike the first gulf war when US was successful at evicting Saddam Hussein from Kuwait without marching onto Bagdad.



There you have it and that is the "evidence" to a facetious argument for the victor of the battle losing the war.


----------



## faithfulguy

CardSharp said:


> There you have it and that is what give "evidence" to Indians who have turned into a facetious argument about the victor of the battle losing the war.



Well, some people cannot handle the fact that their country lost a war. But not everyone is like that.


----------



## CardSharp

faithfulguy said:


> Well, some people cannot handle the fact that their country lost a war. But not everyone is like that.



Like that fat gin-swiller Churchill said "Those who refused to learn from history are doomed to repeating it" 

I try to argue my point here not for their benefit really but out of a inherent dislike for this kind of mental pathos and self-deception. Internet brownie point couldn't interest me less.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Guynextdoor

CardSharp said:


> You're making the same mistake that these Indians are. China wanted to beat some sense into Nehru, not occupy India. China only sent 80,000 troops (a small force by the manpower reliant PLA standards). It was not meant to be an invasion, it was meant to stop Nehru from pursuing his idiotic forward policy and to bring India to the negoitating table.
> 
> India and western observers at the time thought it was a full scale invasion only because of the quick success the PLA had against the Indian Army (Delhi was in a panic, assumed it was a full invasion force). After the 7th brigade (the best in the IA at the time) was routed, and 3 brigades cut off/disintegrated, effective resistance ceased on the whole sector. It was an unexpected victory, that caught the PLA war planners by surprise.
> 
> When the time came, as PLA had to decided how to exploit this victory, they realize they gotten as much as they could of it and further military action would jeopardize China's political aims, ie further fight could have escalated the situation into a superpower war and make future settlement with India on matter more difficult.


The chinese leadership was no one to 'beat some sense into Nehru' a leader of far greater vision and accomplishment. The chinese army could never have 'occupied india' and they didn't retreat only because they had a limited objective in mind. Their supply lines were chocked and they had prioritize which part to consolidate- which they did. 

Fact is 1962 was a joke of a war. India lost because we deserved to lose. Nehru, who came up the ranks of 'non violent resistors' was very frequently heard saying 'lets sack the army'. He had no vision for that arm and belived in taking out resources from them for other development. SO finally our forces ended up with tennis shoes and no eqipment in the mountains- very different from the chinese establishment which had built it's base through the 'barrel of the gun and so fully appreciated what a military machine can achieve. 

Nehru was replaced by a group of people far far more savvy than what you guys have seen. You wanna talk of a real war? You sent 80,000 troops in 1962? we took the surrender of 80,000 troops in 1971. Your war history isn't very glorious- you lost to vietnam, that's like India losing to sri lanka. & 80,000 troops is a very small percentage (less than 10%) of India's military force too.


----------



## Guynextdoor

CardSharp said:


> Like that fat gin-swiller Churchill said "Those who refused to learn from history are doomed to repeating it"
> 
> I try to argue my point here not for their benefit really but out of a inherent dislike for this kind of mental pathos and self-deception. Internet brownie point couldn't interest me less.


You've got a big mouth


----------



## IndianArmy

> *India also needed Tibet's water resources because India's rapidly increasing population had outgrown its territory so expansion was required.*



I might be late, but going All out just because of the above mentioned issue is completely Foolish , Hasnt the Author heard that India *recycles the Water* and Has the Best Infrastructure Available for *Rain water storage* and Rain *water Harvesting* , and Some good Infrastructures to *Desalinate the Ocean Water *... There are ideas to Even store water from Flood.... So no matter upon what India Fights china, but certainly not for this...

And Upon China winning the end battle, I quite agree, because in Forums some do win, But the battleground lies in reality not cyberworld

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChinaRocks

IndianArmy said:


> I might be late, but going All out just because of the above mentioned issue is completely Foolish , Hasnt the Author heard that India *recycles the Water* and Has the Best Infrastructure Available for *Rain water storage* and Rain *water Harvesting* , and Some good Infrastructures to *Desalinate the Ocean Water *... There are ideas to Even store water from Flood.... So no matter upon what India Fights china, but certainly not for this...
> 
> And Upon China winning the end battle, I quite agree, because in Forums some do win, But the battleground lies in reality not cyberworld



we can beat you anywhere both in cyberworld and reality, in reality 1962 is a good example


----------



## Guynextdoor

ChinaRocks said:


> we can beat you anywhere both in cyberworld and reality, in reality 1962 is a good example


Then why don't you come down and try. You've been crying all over the internet, so now show some real muscle. 1971 was a good example too.


----------



## Urbanized Greyhound

Forget an Indo-Chinese war , even an Indo-Pakistan war is impossible in today's scenario , and even more so in the coming decades . The stakes are simply too high .


----------



## IndianArmy

ChinaRocks said:


> we can beat you anywhere both in cyberworld and reality, in reality 1962 is a good example



Agreed to that, You did Beat me in this Hard fought debate, I give up.... Although the End result lies in Your own Username


----------



## HongWu

Okay this is great news! So now Indian leadership has given the okay to Indian media to start claiming Chinese troops are in "Indian territory." Next logical move is to prepare to eject these "invaders" by force. We have another forward policy in the works!

Chinese troops enter Indian territory again - The Times of India

Now the PLA and IA forces are in direct contact and probably encircling each other to gain maximum advantage. Chinese are moving in heavy artillery to pound on the heads of the Indians.

*These Indians really believe they will be the #1 superpower in Asia! The Indians have forgotten the lesson of 1962. China finally has the opportunity to unleash all its advanced missiles and bombs on New Delhi and watch these little clowns run amok in fear and pain!*

Knowing Indian strategic thinking, their next move is to use their "mighty MKI" to patrol the Western sector. China's counter-move will be to intercept them with J-11B. Very soon, I think we will hear about mysterious crashes of MKI due to bad weather.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gabbar

> Okay this is great news! So now Indian leadership has given the okay to Indian media to start claiming Chinese troops are in "Indian territory." Next logical move is to prepare to eject these "invaders" by force. We have another forward policy in the works!
> 
> Chinese troops enter Indian territory again - The Times of India



You have confused Chinese media with Indian media, Indian media is NOT controlled by GOI, unlike China where its state controlled. On the contrary indian media has caused problem to GOI by giving front page space to all the scams, coruption and price inflation and stuff.




> Now the PLA and IA forces are in direct contact and probably encircling each other to gain maximum advantage. Chinese are moving in heavy artillery to pound on the heads of the Indians.



And Indian will sit back right? 



> *These Indians really believe they will be the #1 superpower in Asia! The Indians have forgotten the lesson of 1962. China finally has the opportunity to unleash all its advanced missiles and bombs on New Delhi and watch these little clowns run amok in fear and pain!*



Discuss your point civil manner dude. I know your goal is prvoke people here. Behave properly or your posts will be reported. 



> Knowing Indian strategic thinking, their next move is to use their "mighty MKI" to patrol the Western sector. China's counter-move will be to intercept them with J-11B. Very soon, I think we will hear about mysterious crashes of MKI due to bad weather.



More verbal diarhea by Hong.Wu / Schinese, whatever you are callling your self these days now.


----------



## tallboy123

HongWu said:


> Okay this is great news! So now Indian leadership has given the okay to Indian media to start claiming Chinese troops are in "Indian territory." Next logical move is to prepare to eject these "invaders" by force. We have another forward policy in the works!
> 
> Chinese troops enter Indian territory again - The Times of India
> 
> Now the PLA and IA forces are in direct contact and probably encircling each other to gain maximum advantage. Chinese are moving in heavy artillery to pound on the heads of the Indians.
> 
> *These Indians really believe they will be the #1 superpower in Asia! The Indians have forgotten the lesson of 1962. China finally has the opportunity to unleash all its advanced missiles and bombs on New Delhi and watch these little clowns run amok in fear and pain!*
> 
> Knowing Indian strategic thinking, their next move is to use their "mighty MKI" to patrol the Western sector. China's counter-move will be to intercept them with J-11B. Very soon, I think we will hear about mysterious crashes of MKI due to bad weather.



Well,we know u r statements are just to provoke and get Indian members banned,don't worry i won't take ur posts serious,
ur posts has no values..

But ur a good fictional story writer,better try ur luck in china films not here...

BTW are there any Chinese films industries..?
If yes,go try there...


----------



## ajay

China will never attack India as India can attack all Chinese merchant ships in the Indian Ocean going to the malacca strait it is far easy for India to get access quick compared to China given the distance.


----------



## desimorty

> As a result, New Delhi was forced to adopt a more and more aggressive foreign policy to keep the country united and distract from domestic problems


Not every country has a propaganda brigade as is the case in China.



> conventional war threat. Indias most powerful neighbor was China and New Delhi could not feel strategically secure until an independent Tibet is created as a buffer zone. This motivation was strengthened by Indias desire for redemption for its 1962 defeat and deep-rooted colonial racism against China. India also needed Tibet's water resources because India's rapidly increasing population had outgrown its territory so expansion was required.


China is a power full neighbor but the PLA have less conviental threat on Delhi. Pakistan has more of a threat because they share a border with India that isn't all divided by the worlds biggest mountians.
And Indias don't have deep-rooted colonial racism against China. Indians did not learn to hate Chinese because of the British but Chinese certianly did.
Tibet is not a place to live but its water resources are important.
Let me guess you wrote this.? Take some more time writing facts rather than bs fiction.


> Prior to 2000, India was shunned by the West and could only buy second-class, faulty weapons from Russia. After 2000, India started to acquire first-class weapons from Russia like the T-90, Su-30MKI and from Israel like the Phalcon AWACS and Green Pine radar. By 2010, even the US was offering India first-class weapons like the new M777 light howitzer, C-17, C-130 transport and Apache combat helicopter. Between 1995 and 2010, the India military had gone from a large but low quality Soviet-armed force to a more professional force with an eclectic mix of first-class weaponry from both East and West.


Actually the Indian arms purchases are not really high end. But in the region they can be game changers. What you call faulty soviet weapons are very effective under the right leader.


> Strategic competition between US and China for primacy in East Asia was the reason why arming India became US policy


The US can deal with China via Taiwan/Korea/Pilipenes and Japan. India is not the prime choice! The US is not arming India but rather joining the Russians and Europeans in the Arms market in India.


> The US wanted to enlist India to help contain China. However, the US also faced the problem that it needed Pakistan too. This problem dogged the US until it finally reached a solution in 2010 -- it would sell weapons to India to use against China in the Himalayan border regions, but it would discourage India from using them against Pakistan.


Where the fcuk are you getting your imagination from? Weapons that can't be used on Pakistan? I dare not read more. 


> The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful to handle and eventually Indian Navy might even start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean.


Sersiously? TOO POWERFULL Because they got the gem magical awe inpiring power found in a cave in Kashmir?


> The US also does not want to see India continue to improve its nuclear and missile technology so that one day it can build ICBM that can reach New York. But selling artillery, helicopters, transports and fighter jets (like Super Hornet and F-16E/F offered for MMRCA competition) to fight China in a Himalayan war is okay.


They can't sell missile ICBM technology, and India is researching their own for a credible detterient.


> Since the late 2000s, India has been raising and deploying more and more elite mountain divisions toward both the Eastern Sector and Western Sector of the disputed boundary with China. India has been supplying them with airstrips in the forward areas like Tawang and Ladakh. Indian doctrine is to strike deep into Tibet with air-launched Brahmos, cut off Chinese defenders from supplies and overrun them. Meanwhile, India will encourage ethnic Tibetans to rebel against Beijing and sabotage PLA supplies.


While missiles seem logical, the distance the the Barhmos missile covers is not the greatest. Likily it will be the PLA that uses surfaced launched BM while the Indian air force drops iron.


> By the start of the war, China had largely completed its infrastructure construction in Tibet. It has a railroad from Qinghai to Tibet and another one from Chengdu to Lhasa. China built civilian airports and military air bases in Tibet close to the Indian border. Highways tunneled through mountains provide access to the disputed Eastern Sector. Meanwhile, China opened a railroad along the Karakorum Highway through Pakistan-administered Kashmir linking Kashgar, Xinjiang with Islamabad and opened a railroad from Tibet to Kathmandu.


While this is all great the lack of roads where it counts is minimal for both sides. These are major high ways, no where near the border.


> MKI was at a serious disadvantage to J-11BS. MKI had late-80s Soviet avionics compared to J-11BSs modern suite. MKI was a heavy Russian-manufactured beast while J-11BS was much lighter because of Chinas composite materials technology. Also, India could not maintain foreign equipment very well or repair because spare parts usually came from Russia. Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality. As a result, some of the force could not fly and defects affected the entire MKI force. Chinese AA missiles such as PL-10 were also a generation ahead of the R-73 and R-73 on the MKI.


The Su-30MKI like the J-11 both use 1970's tech such as their engines. But ultimatly its the MKI that has the advantage with its EW suite which includes the BARs radar.


> Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality


And the Chinese don't rely on Russian engines for their planes to fly?


> The J-10B also had an advantage over Indias MMCRA. The Eurofighter and Rafale were too expensive for India to buy in any reasonable quantity so India chose another. But none of the other aircraft had an upper hand over the J-10B. The J-10B has stealth features like DSI-intakes and extensive composites. It uses the FWS10A -- a 140 kN engine in the same thrust class as the Russian 117S. J-10B carries an AESA radar, electronic warfare suite and advanced AA missiles. As an air superiority fighter, it is a true equal to the Eurofighter and Rafale.


And the Indians would buy what? Less of an aircraft so you can make up a story? Please. Don't get into detials, keep on track with what you know.


> China had the numbers advantage. Where India buys, China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. For China, a J-10B costs only ~$30 million, far less than what India would pay for a Mig-35! Where India can only induct 25 or 50 aircraft per year, Chinese war factories can crank out more than 100 per year. Just in the theater alone, China had more than 300 4th generation fighters (J-10B and J-11BS) to Indias 200 or so flyable MKI and MMRCA.


What BS. It costs the same everywhere! Infact buying a Russian Flanker is going to be cheaper that a Chinese knockoff because of the Russians ability to allready make a profit or two.
And no. Factories come to standstill if they are attacked like the Japanese. They can make parts but if the facialities that manufacture the parts for a machine are spread out or single area and are dystroyed the production rate is reduced. The only this China can mass produce in the hundreds is its F-7s.


> Finally, PLAAF could engage in information-centric warfare. J-10B and J-11BS work together with HQ-9 SAM and KJ-2000 as force-multiplier. Indian weapons from Russia, US, France, UK, Israel, etc. simply cannot work as an integrated system. As a result, the pride of the Indian Air Force was lost in the first few days. However, they did inflict substantial losses on the PLAAF at a ratio of 4:1 (in favor of China). China lost ~1/6 of the fighters it brought to the theater.


They do work together. One of the lessons i've learnt is that integration is very important. The MKI-Bisons-Tejas-Awacs and ground control radars all work together because of something called a command and control HQ.


> The remaining IAF was a handful of poorly maintained, half-flyable Mirage, Mig-29 and Mig-21. Those were quickly destroyed on the ground by J-11BS with precision-guided munitions, as were forward Indian air strips and logistics depots.


okay...
Ill begin with saying this. You are Chinese? You show it well.
Your airwar isn't going to be a pretty story like the one you made up.
Infact its far from.
Whats going to happen is that the PLAAF will have 2 months of decent weather to pull off operations from Tibet after that they will rely on mostly airbases located at the mainland. The Indian side however is the one with the advantage. They have lowaltitudes for take offs and have a lot more fields located closer to the border than the PLA could dream of. 
Tibet is not a nice place to start a war in short. High alitudes and bad weather means the PLA's only reliable transportation is the railway.
Its the Indian doctrine that would be dropping bombs btw. The PLA won't send its fighters to drop bombs unless its on the battle ground. They will use artillery or missiles.


> With total control of the skies, China proceeded to attack Indian army bases. The handful of Indian S-300 batteries was destroyed using SEAD tactics and the Y-8 electronic warfare aircraft. It was made easier by the fact that China itself operates these systems. The handful of Green Pine radars was destroyed using terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missiles. The indigenous Akash did not perform very well and could not stop PLAAF from dropping precision-guided munitions over all Indian army bases in forward areas.
> 
> Without fighter support or supplies, the elite Indian mountain divisions could only mount a brave but desperate offensive. Z-10A grossly outnumbered the Apache that India purchased. Again, this is because China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. The highly-advanced Z-10A is equivalent to the Eurocopter Tiger but has less firepower and less armor than the heavier Apache.
> 
> The Chinese also have the advantage of bringing SPAAG, CIWS and short-range SAM on the highways to defend against Apache and Mi-35. Indian-controlled side had no highways. Chinese infantry carry advanced QW-2 manpads (equivalent to Stinger) against helicopters. LCH never made it to the fight because India could not successfully turn the European-made Dhruv into a combat helicopter.
> 
> Indian army had the excellent M777 light howitzer, and this weapon definitely caused damage to PLA. But the Indians faced the disadvantage that they could not "shoot-and-scoot" like the PLZ-04 since M777 was towed and there was no highway. As a result, India's M777 attrited very fast. Yet India could not crank out replacements because it is purchased not indigenously made.
> 
> PLA's biggest advantage is that it could bring up far more numbers using railways. When the Indians began their attack, they thought they enjoyed a 3:1 advantage in numbers. But they did not expect that China had quietly brought up rapid-reaction forces from Lanzhou military region, Chengdu military region and Guangzhou military region. In the end, Indian army was outnumbered 5:1!
> 
> Despite being outnumbered and outgunned, Indian army fought bravely and inflicted 2:1 (in favor of China) casualties on PLA. The high quality of the Apache and M777 was a factor. Nonetheless, PLA commanded the upper hand. Waves of PLZ-04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death. PLA suffered ~1/10 casualties.


Highways? That would mean your too far to count. You need to be where the action is, on the border. The Apache are probabily not going to be purchased and neither the Z-10 or Apache are going to crossing the Himilyans with their max alititude and payload.
and those M777 guns can be transported by heles. Thats the idea. The Indian side has a lower atlititude and are much closer to the border in time. They don't always require roads. Which is why india has a large fleet of helecopters.


> PLA's biggest advantage is that it could bring up far more numbers using railways. When the Indians began their attack, they thought they enjoyed a 3:1 advantage in numbers. But they did not expect that China had quietly brought up rapid-reaction forces from Lanzhou military region, Chengdu military region and Guangzhou military region. In the end, Indian army was outnumbered 5:1!


You can send 3 million soldiers to Lhasa but your only gonna get 50 thousand to the actual border.


> Despite being outnumbered and outgunned, Indian army fought bravely and inflicted 2:1 (in favor of China) casualties on PLA. The high quality of the Apache and M777 was a factor. Nonetheless, PLA commanded the upper hand. Waves of PLZ-04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death. PLA suffered ~1/10 casualties.


Apaches would be useless at that altitude and so would be the Z-10, either because the airfield is 2 fare away or it was too heavy.


> Having destroyed the IAF and destroyed the mountain divisions in both Eastern and Western Sectors, China went on the offense to incapacitate India from any future military adventures.
> 
> PLA advanced into the chicken-neck area and overran Indian defenses, cutting off the entire northeast. PLA moved through Myanmar and attacked Indian army positions near the border. India demanded that Bangladesh let Indian army transit through to save the northeast, but Bangladesh refused, knowing that it would gain from an independent Republic of Assam, for example better water rights.
> 
> In the Western Sector, PLA attacked the Indian army on Siachen Glacier from both the Chinese side and the Pakistan side in a pincher maneuver. Finally, PLA moved into Jammu and Kashmir to roll back the remaining Indian army. Overjoyed at their liberation, Kashmiris rose up and set fire to GoI buildings in Srinagar. The pro-India faction in Kashmir fled the angry mob.
> 
> Within two weeks from the beginning of the war, Kashmir was totally lost and the Indian army in Assam was cut off from the rest of India. Then, China fired hundreds terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missile at power plants and electricity grids. Suddenly, all the major cities in India are without electricity and running water.
> 
> As India entered darkness, rebellion and communal violence broke out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launched direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore GoI authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war.


Wow.


> China should not underestimate India. Yes, its indigenous weapons are not a cause for concern, but the weapons India imported in the 2008-2015 time frame is first-class! Sure they will be lesser in quantity and not as well integrated as indigenous Chinese weapons but they are nothing to scoff at.


Its indigenous weapons are a cause for concern. Because like the Arjun, insas the weapons were built keeping indian conditions in mind.
Quantity doesn't help in a war against India and China. Because quantity is limited on the battlefield. Quality will count.


> It is precisely because India has upgraded from second-class weapons to first-class weapons since 2008 that India has started styling itself a "superpower." India is fundamentally an expansionist state and quite dangerous.


India is replacing its old Soviet warbirds and tanks.
China is the biggest expansionist state in Asia. 


> China is already reacting to India's hostile policy. Chinese defense minister recently said "Chinese military must be self-reliant." This is reminding India that its arms purchases will not help it defeat China and assert itself as the Asian superpower.


The difference is both countries import arms. While you maynot like it but the Chinese still use Russians parts in the fighter aircraft.
India doesn't need to assert itself. Japan is an asian super-power. Not becuase it has a very large military, but because they provide softloans to nations like China. Approximilty 2 billion every year.


> The Second Indo-Chinese War will be decided by fighter aircraft, artillery and combat helicopters. This is why the US is selling these specific items to India! The weapons offered by the US are comparable to the best that China can field indigenously (J-10B, PLZ-04 and Z-10A), making China's industrial advantage over India not decisive.


Actually the US is trying to make money. Russian or European purchases can also be effective. Its not like the US is providing these things with a discount. The next Indo-Sino clash will be dicided by India as to where it happens. Because like it or not. The Tibetan border is closer to India than it is to China. Fighter jets from China will be mostly useless. Because of the altitude and time issues. The PLA will stock up and relay on ground based weapons, and i doubt the PLA will try to attack. 

The CCP and PLA have had more than 40 years to try and grab what it cliams as chinese land. And yet all of this? Its because they never had the capability to keep that land. Simple as that.
And why do you think China arms Pakistan with even missiles and nukes? Because the Pakistani's can do a better job at fighting a war with India than the PLA every could, unless it turns nueclear.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## below_freezing

Keep barking, keep barking, dogs that bark dont bite.


----------



## GareebNawaz

^^ i saw Andrew Zimmern's episode of when he was in Bejing where he went to a restaraunt that specialised in testicles of various animals including that of a dog. You guys won't bite but say you will. That is called mad Dog. When you get pissed Foam will appear. Then you will try to bite. Then Animal control comes in and neuters you. And for your info the bark is more pyshcological than bite.Wounds heal, but when you are afraid you do not know what to do. So go ahead bite..we have bandages.


----------



## CardSharp

Hardcore Gamer said:


> ^^ i saw Andrew Zimmern's episode of when he was in Bejing where he went to a restaraunt that specialised in testicles of various animals including that of a dog. You guys won't bite but say you will. That is called mad Dog. When you get pissed Foam will appear. Then you will try to bite. Then Animal control comes in and neuters you. And for your info the bark is more pyshcological than bite.Wounds heal, but when you are afraid you do not know what to do. So go ahead bite..we have bandages.



That made a lot of sense.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tallboy123

below_freezing said:


> Keep barking, keep barking, dogs that bark dont bite.



HAHAHAHA,
it's Hong Wu is doing as u said..
And who started this thread and chest thumping it's Hong Wu

And now don't chest thump,
Come on and throw wat u got,dont BA**


----------



## HongWu

Indian Army Chief VK Singh has confirmed the two sides are counter-encircling each other!

Construction in restricted area reason for Chinese 'intrusion': Army chief - India - DNA



> "I only see it as a problem of perception. We patrol upto our perception of the LAC which is further east of this and the Chinese come to the LAC as perceived by them," he said.
> 
> "When they do that and it is beyond our line, it is called transgression. I am quite sure on the Chinese side also they would call it a transgression when our patrols go upto our line of perception," Singh said.



Does anybody really believe that the Indian Army did not know construction crews were building roads into the Chinese side of LAC? Of course they knew. Now they are pretending it's all the fault of the local government.

Something fishy is up........

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LaBong

Hardcore Gamer said:


> ^^ i saw Andrew Zimmern's episode of when he was in Bejing where he went to a restaraunt that specialised in testicles of various animals including that of a dog. You guys won't bite but say you will. That is called mad Dog. When you get pissed Foam will appear. Then you will try to bite. Then Animal control comes in and neuters you. And for your info the bark is more pyshcological than bite.Wounds heal, but when you are afraid you do not know what to do. So go ahead bite..we have bandages.



lol!


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Brotherhood said:


> "what can you do about it"?



Keep Arunachal pradesh and Sikkim with us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

Bombensturm said:


> Keep Arunachal pradesh and Sikkim with us.



This is the typical mentality that has kept India from entering negotiations for the past 50 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LaBong

CardSharp said:


> This is the typical mentality that has kept India from entering negotiations for the past 50 years.



This is the typical mentality that has kept China from entering negotiations for the past 50 years.


----------



## deep.ocean

Bombensturm said:


> Keep Arunachal pradesh and Sikkim with us.



Please add Dalai Lama in the list also...
Dragon Jockey


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

CardSharp said:


> This is the typical mentality that has kept India from entering negotiations for the past 50 years.



We aren't in any kind of hurry.
So you can say,the same for another 20 years.


----------



## CardSharp

Bombensturm said:


> We aren't in any kind of hurry.
> So you can say,the same for another 20 years.



Oh I know, but you'll have yourself to blame for the whining about troop incursions.


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

deep.ocean said:


> Please add Dalai Lama in the list also...
> Dragon Jockey



The Tibetans in the past have fled to India,same way Indian Buddhists fled to Tibet.


----------



## LaBong

Yeah poor unarmed civilian workers, guess they have to put up with scooter ridden mighty PLA troops, although I think the slogans were worse.


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

CardSharp said:


> Oh I know, but you'll have yourself to blame for the whining about *troop incursions.*



PLA troop incursions is PLA disciplinary matter.

Either way,the chances of troop incursions compounding into war is highly unlikely.

As per 1993 and 1996,the LAC is acknowledged by both nations,and none will over step it.


----------



## CardSharp

Bombensturm said:


> As per 1993 and 1996,the LAC is acjnowledged by both nations,and none will over step it.



The LAC hasn't been ratified to the best of my knowledge. I'd be interested reading about it. Can you provide a source?



Bombensturm said:


> PLA troop incursions is PLA disciplinary matter.



Another hand waving argument. This is what you think is true.


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

CardSharp said:


> The LAC hasn't been ratified to the best of my knowledge. I'd be interested reading about it. Can you provide a source?



Pg:185 of this book:Five Principles of Chinese Foreign Policies

According to wiki.

PS:IF you get an access to it ,do post that page here.



> Another hand waving argument. This is what you think is true.



Alright! Its applicable to both troops,Indian and Chinese.


----------



## Badabing

mautkimaut said:


> This boomranged to a third world war and China met the same fate of Nazi germany



Mautkimaut, learn your history before you mouth off and play the Nazi card again. Thats right, it wasnt the first time Indians had a fascination as well as affiliation with Nazis.

What about Subhas Chandra Bose? Who tried to play the Nazi card first, the USSR card and then the Empire of Japan card in WWII, but all for naught. 

Subhas Chandra Bose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But Bose was at least a bona fide patriot who wanted to kick the British in the teeth and out of India. For you to throw the Nazi label around in ignorance and hiding behind the Worlds Largest Democracy (more like the Worlds Largest De Mockery) while the Caste system, the plight of the Dalits, poverty, illiteracy and always having a Nehru or Ganhdi clan member in power since 1947 continue to plaque India and Indians. 

Didnt India have the noble None-Alliance policy in place to begin her Republic? What the hell happen to that ideal? You think playing the same deck with multiple sides is not going to carry a high price? 

How much are you going to pay the Russians for the T-45 while theyll keep the real T-50? The Ajun MBT (Main Ballistics Tank for the Chinese T-99) and the LCA (Low Caste Airlesscraft) will cost you just to take up space in Ripleys Museum? And dont even get me started on your Sea-Faring Rocket Program and the Matel DIY Sub Arihant (more like a foot long deal at Subway's Sandwich). 

So now you are still trying to play with the Russians, Japanese and of course chasing after the Germans again. And you want to pretend to be Rapunzel with long beautiful hair? With Indias track record and flip flopping, you are more like Susan Boyle without her voice.

Time to take a breather before your next number, Launda Dance boy.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Badabing

Mautkimaut, learn your history before you mouth off and play the Nazi card again. Thats right, it wasnt the first time Indians had a fascination as well as affiliation with Nazis.

What about Subhas Chandra Bose? Who tried to play the Nazi card first, the USSR card and then the Empire of Japan card in WWII, but all for naught. 

Subhas Chandra Bose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But Bose was at least a bona fide patriot who wanted to kick the British in the teeth and out of India. For you to throw the Nazi label around in ignorance and hiding behind the Worlds Largest Democracy (more like the Worlds Largest De Mockery) while the Caste system, the plight of the Dalits, poverty, illiteracy and always having a Nehru or Ganhdi clan member in power since 1947 continue to plaque India and Indians. 

Didnt India have the noble None-Alliance policy in place to begin her Republic? What the hell happen to that ideal? You think playing the same deck with multiple sides is not going to carry a high price? 

How much are you going to pay the Russians for the T-45 while theyll keep the real T-50? The Ajun MBT (Main Ballistics Tank for the Chinese T-99) and the LCA (Low Caste Airlesscraft) will cost you just to take up space in Ripleys Museum? And dont even get me started on your Sea-Faring Rocket Program and the Matel DIY Sub Arihant (more like a foot long deal at Subway's Sandwich). 

So now you are still trying to play with the Russians, Japanese and of course chasing after the Germans again. And you want to pretend to be Rapunzel with long beautiful hair? With Indias track record and flip flopping, you look more like Susan Boyle without her voice.

Time to take a breather before your next number, Launda Dance boy.


----------



## HongWu

Now I have time to respond to your post.


jatt said:


> The US can deal with China via Taiwan/Korea/Pilipenes and Japan. India is not the prime choice!


India is the right choice because Japan / S Korea are smart enough to be afraid of a hot conflict with China. Taiwan already has a pro-China government and Philippines already told USA not to step into South China Sea dispute.

India is the one country too stupid to be afraid of China until war actually starts. It's basically used as a suicide bomber by USA.

It is very like if there is hot conflict in East Asia that India will open up a second front.



jatt said:


> While this is all great the lack of roads where it counts is minimal for both sides. These are major high ways, no where near the border.


China has build highways right up to the LAC. It can move SPA to support a deep thrust by infantry. *Motuo county tunnel* has been completed so there is highway connection all the way to "Arunachal Pradesh."



jatt said:


> The Su-30MKI like the J-11 both use 1970's tech such as their engines. But ultimatly its the MKI that has the advantage with its EW suite which includes the BARs radar.


J-11B is China's fully indigenous flanker which is far superior to old J-11 license built Russian flanker. They are already deployed en mass to new airfields in Tibet.

China has been mass producing its own advanced turbofan since 2009. J-11B uses FWS10. See this photo

http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-11B_WS-10a.jpg

Indigenous Chinese radar on J-11B is comparable to BARS. The old J-11 and MKK radars are crap. J-11B cockpit is a generation ahead of MKI. See this photo

http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-11B_cockpit1.jpg



jatt said:


> What BS. It costs the same everywhere! Infact buying a Russian Flanker is going to be cheaper that a Chinese knockoff because of the Russians ability to allready make a profit or two.


Totally wrong. Imported weapons are much more expensive than domestic manufactured (especially if they happen to be manufactured in China).

Of course, if India wants to delude itself to think imported weapons are a bargain.... then go ahead and spend yourself silly.



jatt said:


> And no. Factories come to standstill if they are attacked like the Japanese. They can make parts but if the facialities that manufacture the parts for a machine are spread out or single area and are dystroyed the production rate is reduced. The only this China can mass produce in the hundreds is its F-7s.


LOL.... more self-delusion. China is magnitudes better at manufacturing than India. There is simply no comparison.

With development of FWS10 engines, China can mass produce J-11B. Of course, mass production of army equipment like SPA, MRLS, tanks and infantry vehicles is never in question.



jatt said:


> They do work together. One of the lessons i've learnt is that integration is very important. The MKI-Bisons-Tejas-Awacs and ground control radars all work together because of something called a command and control HQ.


You're not fooling anyone. You can't integrate electronics from NATO and those from Russia without some major upgrades. So far I haven't seen any foreign country do this for India, nor has India done it by itself.

China on the other hand has datalinks and satellite links! Not to mention its own navigation satellite constellation "Compass" aka "Beidou".



jatt said:


> Whats going to happen is that the PLAAF will have 2 months of decent weather to pull off operations from Tibet after that they will rely on mostly airbases located at the mainland. The Indian side however is the one with the advantage. They have lowaltitudes for take offs and have a lot more fields located closer to the border than the PLA could dream of.


China has already built around 10 major airbases in Tibet. J-11B are deployed there. Then are also some civilian airports. They will all be in operation by 2012.

Northern India has more airfields / airbases / civilian airports its true but PLAAF airbases in Tibet easily negates this advantage.

Please, not more of this "low altitude" advantage. Maybe India has problems operating at high altitude because its engines are not powerful enough. But China has no such problems. All it needs is a longer runway, easily done.



jatt said:


> and those M777 guns can be transported by heles. Thats the idea. The Indian side has a lower atlititude and are much closer to the border in time. They don't always require roads. Which is why india has a large fleet of helecopters.


With J-11B backed by HQ-9 SAM and KJ-2000 AWACS, China will have air superiority. India will not be able to supply its mountain troops by helicopter.



jatt said:


> Japan is an asian super-power. Not becuase it has a very large military, but because they provide softloans to nations like China. Approximilty 2 billion every year.


Wrong on all counts actually. Japan's MSDF (navy) is possibly world's second most powerful surface force. Japan doesn't give any loans to China, considering that China is a bigger economy than Japan.



jatt said:


> The CCP and PLA have had more than 40 years to try and grab what it cliams as chinese land. And yet all of this? Its because they never had the capability to keep that land. Simple as that.


Let's summarize:

- Before China didn't have fully indigenous J-11B flanker to overwhelm Indian Air Force. Now it does.

- Before China didn't have a dozen airbases / civilian airports in Tibet. Now it does.

- Before China didn't have highways (motorable by SPA, MRLS) right up to LAC. Now it does.

*In short..... China has fully prepared to fight India and take the war directly to northern Indian plains. That would deliver a death blow to the New Delhi regime.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

Bombensturm said:


> Pg:185 of this book:Five Principles of Chinese Foreign Policies



Fair enough. There is an agreement to respect a LAC, but this does not mean that a LAC free of overlaps has been agreed upon. According to the conference on the Sino-Indian border held in 2009, the speakers there still agreed that most if not all of the troop incursions that get reported in the media is as result of overlapping areas of patrol and a misunderstood border. 




Bombensturm said:


> PS:IF you get an access to it ,do post that page here.



I don't have a copy handy if that's what you mean (you can always take a screenshot and host it on photobucket or something)



Bombensturm said:


> Alright! Its applicable to both troops,Indian and Chinese.



I meant that there is no way you can attribute the "incursions" to a disciplinary problem without knowing orders that were passed up and down the chain of command in the PLA or more probably the people's armed police border unit.


----------



## GORKHALI

HongWu said:


> Now I have time to respond to your post.
> 
> India is the right choice because Japan / S Korea are smart enough to be afraid of a hot conflict with China. Taiwan already has a pro-China government and Philippines already told USA not to step into South China Sea dispute.
> 
> India is the one country too stupid to be afraid of China until war actually starts. It's basically used as a suicide bomber by USA.
> 
> It is very like if there is hot conflict in East Asia that India will open up a second front.
> 
> 
> China has build highways right up to the LAC. It can move SPA to support a deep thrust by infantry. *Motuo county tunnel* has been completed so there is highway connection all the way to "Arunachal Pradesh."
> 
> 
> J-11B is China's fully indigenous flanker which is far superior to old J-11 license built Russian flanker. They are already deployed en mass to new airfields in Tibet.
> 
> China has been mass producing its own advanced turbofan since 2009. J-11B uses FWS10. See this photo
> 
> http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-11B_WS-10a.jpg
> 
> Indigenous Chinese radar on J-11B is comparable to BARS. The old J-11 and MKK radars are crap. J-11B cockpit is a generation ahead of MKI. See this photo
> 
> http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-11B_cockpit1.jpg
> 
> 
> Totally wrong. Imported weapons are much more expensive than domestic manufactured (especially if they happen to be manufactured in China).
> 
> Of course, if India wants to delude itself to think imported weapons are a bargain.... then go ahead and spend yourself silly.
> 
> 
> LOL.... more self-delusion. China is magnitudes better at manufacturing than India. There is simply no comparison.
> 
> With development of FWS10 engines, China can mass produce J-11B. Of course, mass production of army equipment like SPA, MRLS, tanks and infantry vehicles is never in question.
> 
> 
> You're not fooling anyone. You can't integrate electronics from NATO and those from Russia without some major upgrades. So far I haven't seen any foreign country do this for India, nor has India done it by itself.
> 
> China on the other hand has datalinks and satellite links! Not to mention its own navigation satellite constellation "Compass" aka "Beidou".
> 
> 
> China has already built around 10 major airbases in Tibet. J-11B are deployed there. Then are also some civilian airports. They will all be in operation by 2012.
> 
> Northern India has more airfields / airbases / civilian airports its true but PLAAF airbases in Tibet easily negates this advantage.
> 
> Please, not more of this "low altitude" advantage. Maybe India has problems operating at high altitude because its engines are not powerful enough. But China has no such problems. All it needs is a longer runway, easily done.
> 
> 
> With J-11B backed by HQ-9 SAM and KJ-2000 AWACS, China will have air superiority. India will not be able to supply its mountain troops by helicopter.
> 
> 
> Wrong on all counts actually. Japan's MSDF (navy) is possibly world's second most powerful surface force. Japan doesn't give any loans to China, considering that China is a bigger economy than Japan.
> 
> 
> Let's summarize:
> 
> - Before China didn't have fully indigenous J-11B flanker to overwhelm Indian Air Force. Now it does.
> 
> - Before China didn't have a dozen airbases / civilian airports in Tibet. Now it does.
> 
> - Before China didn't have highways (motorable by SPA, MRLS) right up to LAC. Now it does.
> 
> *In short..... China has fully prepared to fight India and take the war directly to northern Indian plains. That would deliver a death blow to the New Delhi regime.*



Is't ? Deathblow to ND AND HELL on earth right there in Bejing,how ?just add akash SAM in place of HQ 9 ,AWACS TO PHALCON WITH SU30MKI and strike package delivery by jaguars is only small part of it..


----------



## GORKHALI

@hongwu if it so easy for china to conquer every country then india ,japan ,Soko,tiawan ,vietnam ,russia ,singapore would hav been chinese province now.


----------



## HongWu

J+K government has perhaps leaked the intentions of Indian Army.



> Farooq Abdullah told reporters in Jammu on Sunday that India will show its strength during summer as there is extreme cold this time in Leh.



India will take revenge for China incursion in Ladakh in summer: Farooq Abdullah - The Times of India

So that means India is preparing a major "forward policy" by the summer. They have already stored up a lot of supplies by helicopter transport.

PLA must be ready. Artillery will turn Indian soldiers into mush and cruise missiles with incendiary warheads will turn New Delhi into an inferno.


----------



## AGHORI

HongWu said:


> J+K government has perhaps leaked the intentions of Indian Army.
> 
> 
> 
> India will take revenge for China incursion in Ladakh in summer: Farooq Abdullah - The Times of India
> 
> So that means India is preparing a major "forward policy" by the summer. They have already stored up a lot of supplies by helicopter transport.
> 
> PLA must be ready. Artillery will turn Indian soldiers into mush and cruise missiles with incendiary warheads will turn New Delhi into an inferno.



Eagerly waiting for your predictions to come true O WISE AND ALL-KNOWING HONGWU. 
sorry to burst your bubble but i don't think such a thing is likely to happen as the economies of both the countries would be severely affected. By the way the US is pissed off with your country . if you understand what that means.
The Indian military does not take orders from Farooq Abdullah. so chill
Don't take his outburst seriously. He is just venting his anger.


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

CardSharp said:


> Fair enough. There is an agreement to respect a LAC, but this does not mean that a LAC free of overlaps has been agreed upon. According to the conference on the Sino-Indian border held in 2009, the speakers there still agreed that most if not all of the troop incursions that get reported in the media is as result of overlapping areas of patrol and a misunderstood border.



Yes! I remember, a more clearer agreement could have been made,like say,no one will,patrol,anywhere near 5Km of the LAC.But recent visit didn't help much.


----------



## LaBong

Bombensturm said:


> Pg:185 of this book:Five Principles of Chinese Foreign Policies
> 
> According to wiki.
> 
> PS:IF you get an access to it ,do post that page here.
> 
> 
> 
> Alright! Its applicable to both troops,Indian and Chinese.





CardSharp said:


> Fair enough. There is an agreement to respect a LAC, but this does not mean that a LAC free of overlaps has been agreed upon. According to the conference on the Sino-Indian border held in 2009, the speakers there still agreed that most if not all of the troop incursions that get reported in the media is as result of overlapping areas of patrol and a misunderstood border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a copy handy if that's what you mean (you can always take a screenshot and host it on photobucket or something)
> 
> 
> 
> I meant that there is no way you can attribute the "incursions" to a disciplinary problem without knowing orders that were passed up and down the chain of command in the PLA or more probably the people's armed police border unit.





Bombensturm said:


> Yes! I remember, a more clearer agreement could have been made,like say,no one will,patrol,anywhere near 5Km of the LAC.But recent visit didn't help much.



Nobody seemed to have given a heed to what Ministry of External Affairs has to say about it. 



> These reports are baseless and do not conform to facts. They are, therefore, not a cause for concern.
> 
> It will be recollected that there are differences in perception, between India and China, on the Line of Actual Control in this area.



Reports of Chinese incursion in Ladakh baseless: MEA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## girishktyagi

Indo China war if become reality, then it will only happens after Sino-Taiwan or North-South Keora-Japan-US war.


&#8226;	India China are intelligent enough not to fight for barren land of Leh and hostile land of Arunachal Pradesh where as we talk about 100 billion trade by 2015.
&#8226;	China has more valid reasons to fight with Taiwan rather then India.
&#8226;	Also India is big enough to restrain China to attack.
&#8226;	Not to forget that two nuclear power can never go to war as the spark can always lead to nuclear threat.
&#8226;	India will never attack China. And if China attack India, then it will confirm that the days of Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam etc for numbered since if China can think of attacking India which is (big million plus army with missiles and nuclear weapons) then why China will not attack other small, weak nations and capture their resources?? This will only make other countries hostile towards China and will stand against Chinese. Well the reality is India is now aggressively working on its &#8220;Look East&#8221; policy where it is developing its military ties with Vietnam, S Korea and Japan to check Chinese threat. 

Not to forget that why China will attack India? to become bad boy in the world? and then alarm other countries to get alarmed?


Well Business will be more important for China and India rather then fighting with each other in coming decades to come..!!!!


China is more powerful then India, but they must know that its not 1962. If China destroy India, that let me assure you, China will start everything from stone age.

But I support healthy relations of India-China just like their thousands of years of history.


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

HongWu said:


> *The Second Indo-Chinese War (2013-2015)*​
> *Cause of the War*
> 
> The Indian military at the time of the Second Indo-Chinese War (starting sometime between 2013 and 2015) was a powerful force dominating South Asia. It was definitely not 1962, when India went to war against China without due preparation. Since 1962, India fought several border skirmishes with Pakistan and eventually split it in the 1971 war. In 1987, Indian troops even faced off against the PLA at Sumdorong Chu Valley and eventually occupied Southern Tibet and turned it into the state of Arunachal Pradesh.
> 
> Since the early 2000s, Indias economic growth has been spectacular, at least on paper. The economic growth created a sizable middle-class and upper-class Indians in the cities while poverty and malnutrition still existed in the countryside. Rampant inflation and other economic dislocation led to discontent from the urban poor. As India grew richer as a whole, Naxalites, Kashmiris and other rebellious factions grew more and more powerful.
> 
> As a result, New Delhi was forced to adopt a more and more aggressive foreign policy to keep the country united and distract from domestic problems. New Delhi strategists believed Indias path is to mimic the British Empire and project power as a conqueror. By 2010, India had outclassed Pakistan economically and regarded Pakistan only as source of terrorism, not a conventional war threat. Indias most powerful neighbor was China and New Delhi could not feel strategically secure until an independent Tibet is created as a buffer zone. This motivation was strengthened by Indias desire for redemption for its 1962 defeat and deep-rooted colonial racism against China. India also needed Tibet's water resources because India's rapidly increasing population had outgrown its territory so expansion was required.
> 
> Prior to 2000, India was shunned by the West and could only buy second-class, faulty weapons from Russia. After 2000, India started to acquire first-class weapons from Russia like the T-90, Su-30MKI and from Israel like the Phalcon AWACS and Green Pine radar. By 2010, even the US was offering India first-class weapons like the new M777 light howitzer, C-17, C-130 transport and Apache combat helicopter. Between 1995 and 2010, the India military had gone from a large but low quality Soviet-armed force to a more professional force with an eclectic mix of first-class weaponry from both East and West.
> 
> Strategic competition between US and China for primacy in East Asia was the reason why arming India became US policy. The US wanted to enlist India to help contain China. However, the US also faced the problem that it needed Pakistan too. This problem dogged the US until it finally reached a solution in 2010 -- it would sell weapons to India to use against China in the Himalayan border regions, but it would discourage India from using them against Pakistan.
> 
> The US does not want to see India conquering Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as that might make India too powerful to handle and eventually Indian Navy might even start affecting US naval primacy in the Indian Ocean. The US also does not want to see India continue to improve its nuclear and missile technology so that one day it can build ICBM that can reach New York. But selling artillery, helicopters, transports and fighter jets (like Super Hornet and F-16E/F offered for MMRCA competition) to fight China in a Himalayan war is okay.
> 
> Indo-Chinese relations plummeted in 2009 when PM Singh first decided to side with US to contain China and eventually carve out an independent Tibet. Since then, relations have been hostile, cold and confrontational. Sometime between 2013 and 2015, the newest US weapons were delivered to the Indian military. Not long after, the war began.
> 
> *Deployment of Forces*
> 
> Since the late 2000s, India has been raising and deploying more and more elite mountain divisions toward both the Eastern Sector and Western Sector of the disputed boundary with China. India has been supplying them with airstrips in the forward areas like Tawang and Ladakh. Indian doctrine is to strike deep into Tibet with air-launched Brahmos, cut off Chinese defenders from supplies and overrun them. Meanwhile, India will encourage ethnic Tibetans to rebel against Beijing and sabotage PLA supplies.
> 
> By the start of the war, China had largely completed its infrastructure construction in Tibet. It has a railroad from Qinghai to Tibet and another one from Chengdu to Lhasa. China built civilian airports and military air bases in Tibet close to the Indian border. Highways tunneled through mountains provide access to the disputed Eastern Sector. Meanwhile, China opened a railroad along the Karakorum Highway through Pakistan-administered Kashmir linking Kashgar, Xinjiang with Islamabad and opened a railroad from Tibet to Kathmandu.
> 
> *Major Chinese Weapons in the Theater*
> 
> PLZ-04 artillery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z-10A combat helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HQ-9 SAM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CJ-10 cruise missile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KJ-2000 AWACS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-8 EW aircraft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Phase I: The Indian Offensive*
> 
> Ground forces of the two countries had already been maneuvering and watching each other when the air war began. So, China was prepared when India began its attack on the Qinghai-Tibet railway and the Chengdu-Lhasa railway. The KJ-2000 spotted the incoming squadrons of MKI and MMRCA soon after taking off from forward bases.
> 
> MKI was at a serious disadvantage to J-11BS. MKI had late-80s Soviet avionics compared to J-11BSs modern suite. MKI was a heavy Russian-manufactured beast while J-11BS was much lighter because of Chinas composite materials technology. Also, India could not maintain foreign equipment very well or repair because spare parts usually came from Russia. Indian license-made parts were very poor in quality. As a result, some of the force could not fly and defects affected the entire MKI force. Chinese AA missiles such as PL-10 were also a generation ahead of the R-73 and R-73 on the MKI.
> 
> The J-10B also had an advantage over Indias MMCRA. The Eurofighter and Rafale were too expensive for India to buy in any reasonable quantity so India chose another. But none of the other aircraft had an upper hand over the J-10B. The J-10B has stealth features like DSI-intakes and extensive composites. It uses the FWS10A -- a 140 kN engine in the same thrust class as the Russian 117S. J-10B carries an AESA radar, electronic warfare suite and advanced AA missiles. As an air superiority fighter, it is a true equal to the Eurofighter and Rafale.
> 
> China had the numbers advantage. Where India buys, China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. For China, a J-10B costs only ~$30 million, far less than what India would pay for a Mig-35! Where India can only induct 25 or 50 aircraft per year, Chinese war factories can crank out more than 100 per year. Just in the theater alone, China had more than 300 4th generation fighters (J-10B and J-11BS) to Indias 200 or so flyable MKI and MMRCA.
> 
> Finally, PLAAF could engage in information-centric warfare. J-10B and J-11BS work together with HQ-9 SAM and KJ-2000 as force-multiplier. Indian weapons from Russia, US, France, UK, Israel, etc. simply cannot work as an integrated system. As a result, the pride of the Indian Air Force was lost in the first few days. However, they did inflict substantial losses on the PLAAF at a ratio of 4:1 (in favor of China). China lost ~1/6 of the fighters it brought to the theater.
> 
> The remaining IAF was a handful of poorly maintained, half-flyable Mirage, Mig-29 and Mig-21. Those were quickly destroyed on the ground by J-11BS with precision-guided munitions, as were forward Indian air strips and logistics depots.
> 
> *Phase II: Mountain Warfare*
> 
> With total control of the skies, China proceeded to attack Indian army bases. The handful of Indian S-300 batteries was destroyed using SEAD tactics and the Y-8 electronic warfare aircraft. It was made easier by the fact that China itself operates these systems. The handful of Green Pine radars was destroyed using terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missiles. The indigenous Akash did not perform very well and could not stop PLAAF from dropping precision-guided munitions over all Indian army bases in forward areas.
> 
> Without fighter support or supplies, the elite Indian mountain divisions could only mount a brave but desperate offensive. Z-10A grossly outnumbered the Apache that India purchased. Again, this is because China makes indigenously at a fraction of the price. The highly-advanced Z-10A is equivalent to the Eurocopter Tiger but has less firepower and less armor than the heavier Apache.
> 
> The Chinese also have the advantage of bringing SPAAG, CIWS and short-range SAM on the highways to defend against Apache and Mi-35. Indian-controlled side had no highways. Chinese infantry carry advanced QW-2 manpads (equivalent to Stinger) against helicopters. LCH never made it to the fight because India could not successfully turn the European-made Dhruv into a combat helicopter.
> 
> Indian army had the excellent M777 light howitzer, and this weapon definitely caused damage to PLA. But the Indians faced the disadvantage that they could not "shoot-and-scoot" like the PLZ-04 since M777 was towed and there was no highway. As a result, India's M777 attrited very fast. Yet India could not crank out replacements because it is purchased not indigenously made.
> 
> PLA's biggest advantage is that it could bring up far more numbers using railways. When the Indians began their attack, they thought they enjoyed a 3:1 advantage in numbers. But they did not expect that China had quietly brought up rapid-reaction forces from Lanzhou military region, Chengdu military region and Guangzhou military region. In the end, Indian army was outnumbered 5:1!
> 
> Despite being outnumbered and outgunned, Indian army fought bravely and inflicted 2:1 (in favor of China) casualties on PLA. The high quality of the Apache and M777 was a factor. Nonetheless, PLA commanded the upper hand. Waves of PLZ-04 artillery fire rained down on the Indian mountain divisions wherever they were, killing / wounding many of them. PLA infantry supported by Z-10A followed up and tore into Indian positions. The few that survived the vicious assault ran away and eventually froze to death. PLA suffered ~1/10 casualties.
> 
> *Phase III: Chinese Counter-Offensive*
> 
> Having destroyed the IAF and destroyed the mountain divisions in both Eastern and Western Sectors, China went on the offense to incapacitate India from any future military adventures.
> 
> PLA advanced into the chicken-neck area and overran Indian defenses, cutting off the entire northeast. PLA moved through Myanmar and attacked Indian army positions near the border. India demanded that Bangladesh let Indian army transit through to save the northeast, but Bangladesh refused, knowing that it would gain from an independent Republic of Assam, for example better water rights.
> 
> In the Western Sector, PLA attacked the Indian army on Siachen Glacier from both the Chinese side and the Pakistan side in a pincher maneuver. Finally, PLA moved into Jammu and Kashmir to roll back the remaining Indian army. Overjoyed at their liberation, Kashmiris rose up and set fire to GoI buildings in Srinagar. The pro-India faction in Kashmir fled the angry mob.
> 
> Within two weeks from the beginning of the war, Kashmir was totally lost and the Indian army in Assam was cut off from the rest of India. Then, China fired hundreds terrain-hugging CJ-10 cruise missile at power plants and electricity grids. Suddenly, all the major cities in India are without electricity and running water.
> 
> As India entered darkness, rebellion and communal violence broke out all over the country. Naxalites and Assam separatists launched direct assaults on pro-India police and paramilitary forces. Local governments and entire states declare independence from New Delhi. Some generals in the Indian Army tried to restore GoI authority by force but instead the whole country simply sank into civil war.
> 
> *Important Lessons from the Second Indo-Chinese War*
> 
> (1) China should not underestimate India. Yes, its indigenous weapons are not a cause for concern, but the weapons India imported in the 2008-2015 time frame is first-class! Sure they will be lesser in quantity and not as well integrated as indigenous Chinese weapons but they are nothing to scoff at.
> 
> (2) It is precisely because India has upgraded from second-class weapons to first-class weapons since 2008 that India has started styling itself a "superpower." India is fundamentally an expansionist state and quite dangerous.
> 
> (3) China is already reacting to India's hostile policy. Chinese defense minister recently said "Chinese military must be self-reliant." This is reminding India that its arms purchases will not help it defeat China and assert itself as the Asian superpower.
> 
> (4) The Second Indo-Chinese War will be decided by fighter aircraft, artillery and combat helicopters. This is why the US is selling these specific items to India! The weapons offered by the US are comparable to the best that China can field indigenously (J-10B, PLZ-04 and Z-10A), making China's industrial advantage over India not decisive.




You forgot to add J-20!


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

mautkimaut said:


> This boomranged to a third world war and China met the same fate of Nazi germany



You mean india get boomranged to a third world it alreay is ? And China become the donminate country of all Asia?


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

Actually this artical makes some sense. Think about it. USA knows that India hates China. 

India hates China: 
1. To revenge 1962.
2. Chinese support of Pakistan.
3. India is very very jelous and envy China's success. Many Indian memebers on this fourm even addmmitted it. 

India attack China again makes total sense too, because indians alwyas think they are so "strong". Indians think that by getting rid of China will make India the "super" power of the universe and utamilately eat up Pakistan as well, this is why india is buying all these weapons from Russia, US, and Europe. Su-30, more MRCA, ajunk tank, more t-90, lca, very obsleate self-made nuclear sub, very old scholl and obsleate missile, more transport such as il-76, and more. 

India thinks that Chinese are weak, simple minded, and lone with out support, while india has support from USA, Europe, Japan, and ofcourse your best friend Russia. India is incredible and so strong. This is why india sends su-30 to the chinese border, send more troops and support dia laima. But all these weapons india buy is obviousely not for peace but for war. When india thinks it is ready it will attack, plane simple. 

India's wishful, hopeful, and lala objective. Crush the Chinese, and take Tibet. Then Pakistan will become easy to deal with.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

girishktyagi said:


> Indo China war if become reality, then it will only happens after Sino-Taiwan or North-South Keora-Japan-US war.
> 
> 
> &#8226;	India China are intelligent enough not to fight for barren land of Leh and hostile land of Arunachal Pradesh where as we talk about 100 billion trade by 2015.
> &#8226;	China has more valid reasons to fight with Taiwan rather then India.
> &#8226;	Also India is big enough to restrain China to attack.
> &#8226;	Not to forget that two nuclear power can never go to war as the spark can always lead to nuclear threat.
> &#8226;	India will never attack China. And if China attack India, then it will confirm that the days of Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam etc for numbered since if China can think of attacking India which is (big million plus army with missiles and nuclear weapons) then why China will not attack other small, weak nations and capture their resources?? This will only make other countries hostile towards China and will stand against Chinese. Well the reality is India is now aggressively working on its &#8220;Look East&#8221; policy where it is developing its military ties with Vietnam, S Korea and Japan to check Chinese threat.
> 
> Not to forget that why China will attack India? to become bad boy in the world? and then alarm other countries to get alarmed?
> 
> 
> Well Business will be more important for China and India rather then fighting with each other in coming decades to come..!!!!
> 
> 
> China is more powerful then India, but they must know that its not 1962. If China destroy India, that let me assure you, China will start everything from stone age.
> 
> But I support healthy relations of India-China just like their thousands of years of history.





You are funny. Think that when China attacks taiwan, india then go on and stabe China in the back. LOL, you think we dont know your "genius" plan? What do you think Pakistan is there for? 

Well, let me answer this question. We Chinese support Pakistan, UNCOIDITIONLLY. Anything in the Chinese arsnel such as the NEWEST J-20 will be in Pakistan's inventory. Pakistan is there to gaurd our back and we Chinese are there to guard their pack. 

Now image if Taiwan and China go to war and if india dare to attck China, then China and Pakistan join and attack india from North, West, and East. You tell me the outcome.


----------



## JayAtl

AerospaceEngineer said:


> You are funny. Think that when China attacks taiwan, india then go on and stabe China in the back. LOL, you think we dont know your "genius" plan? What do you think Pakistan is there for?
> 
> Well, let me answer your question. We Chinese support Pakistan, UNCOIDITIONLLY. Anything in the Chinese arsnel such as the NEWEST J-20 will be in Pakistan's inventory. Pakistan is there to gaurd our back and we Chinese are there to guard their pack.
> 
> Now image if Taiwan and China go to war and if india dare to attck China, then China and Pakistan join and attack india from North, West, and East. You tell me the outcome.



did you read his post? can you re read it. I think you had a fit over something he has not even pontificated in his post.


----------



## below_freezing

If India wants to get involved in a 2 front war with China, we've fought 2 front wars before. 1969 against Soviets was same time we fought against US in Vietnam. The outcome can only be the same as the British in India. Don't even think about nukes, 1 Chinese nuke has more power than all of India's added together.


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

HongHu, you forgot to point out one important aspect of warfare.

Space warfare. In the initial phase of the war. Chinese will lunch anti-satalite attack agains indian satalites, india only has a small amout of satalites and completely rely on imports. Wipe out their satalite will given the Chinese a decisive advantage, it will render india's spying, bomb guiding ability to utter zero. Then the real war begins.

1. Indian will attack, but Tibet is huge and very empty. Chinese will deploy many HQ-9A, S-300 there alone with many J-11B, J-10A/B and KJ-2000, KJ-200. It will be in a huge favor for the Chinese to fight in Tibet. 

2. Let Indian sink deep in to Tibet, can not withdraw nor advance. Withdraw, not possible, because they have to once again cross the Himalaya. Advance, ok but to where? Into the swan? Thouands of miles of empty land!

3. Counter attack begins, first circle all the incoming indian troops. Lunch missile attack against their airfield, and try to knock out as many transport as possible. Trapped indians with out support from the air and supplry from transports? You tell me the outcome. 1962 happening again.

4. Advance into enemy zone. Our troops get into Pakistan and attack from westt side where it is flat which is great for armor and infantry battle. Gather air support, artily, tanks alone with Pakistani military attack from west side. Kashimir, Deli, and others you name it.

5. Game over.


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

below_freezing said:


> If India wants to get involved in a 2 front war with China, we've fought 2 front wars before. 1969 against Soviets was same time we fought against US in Vietnam. The outcome can only be the same as the British in India. Don't even think about nukes, 1 Chinese nuke has more power than all of India's added together.





Nukes? Why use nukes? 

I can tell you that if India or China ever use nukes it will BE INDA FIRST using it. We will of course lunch counter attack!


----------



## Badabing

I see a lot of mentioning of "alliances" with SK, Japan and Taiwan. SK and Japan can not do without the Chinese market and Taiwan is all tied up with China economically at her jugular. If such alliances do take place, India's new allies will be more as liabilities than anything else. Taiwan's troops are not going to put up a fight against the PLA, SK already knows what happened in the Korean War and throughout history. Japanese will avoid war with China like the plague because they know there is a 30 million-live score to settle. Japan is not going to risk being wiped off of the map. All these are export dependent, sesame seed sized countries that can't take a hit. Why bother with them? Has anyone bothered to check what their willingness is on an alliance with India? Not much going on there. As far as ignoramuses mentioning Vietnam's victory over China in '79, all they need to know is that both times Chinese troops reached the outskirts of the respective capitols of New Deli and Hanoi in two weeks and both of them appealed to their "allies" in Russia and US so that the PLA wouldn't push into those two capitols. How the hell do you claim victory when you can hear the other side's cannon fire during your Parliment sessions. As far as India's warfare records go? India was never even a united country before 1947 so that says a plenty about how successful they have been on the battlefields.

You are much better off as a "pardner" with the US or Russia but don't expect a seat at the table. You will be serving their meals as you have been. "Another beer here boy, and a refill for my Vodka chugging buddy!"


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

Badabing said:


> I see a lot of mentioning of "alliances" with SK, Japan and Taiwan. SK and Japan can not do without the Chinese market and Taiwan is all tied up with China economically at her jugular. If such alliances do take place, India's new allies will be more as liabilities than anything else. Taiwan's troops are not going to put up a fight against the PLA, SK already knows what happened in the Korean War and throughout history. Japanese will avoid war with China like the plague because they know there is a 30 million-live score to settle. Japan is not going to risk being wiped off of the map. All these are export dependent, sesame seed sized countries that can't take a hit. Why bother with them? Has anyone bothered to check what their willingness is on an alliance with India? Not much going on there. As far as ignoramuses mentioning Vietnam's victory over China in '79, all they need to know is that both times Chinese troops reached the outskirts of the respective capitols of New Deli and Hanoi in two weeks and both of them appealed to their "allies" in Russia and US so that the PLA wouldn't push into those two capitols. How the hell do you claim victory when you can hear the other side's cannon fire during your Parliment sessions. As far as India's warfare records go? India was never even a united country before 1947 so that says a plenty about how successful they have been on the battlefields.
> 
> You are much better off as a "pardner" with the US or Russia but don't expect a seat at the table. You will be serving their meals as you have been. "Another beer here boy, and a refill for my Vodka chugging buddy!"




LOL, Indian alliance with WHO? I can tell you that if war ever breaks out NO one will help India. NO ONE! Not even Russia.

USA will be so happy, singing and dancing with joy. Even if Chinese win. Chinese will suffer losses, and its encomy will get hurt and that is exactly what the americans want! USA will not send one troop, one ship, one plane to help india. Europeen also watching, Japan watching but worrying, Chinese wins they are NEXT. SK, lol do NOTHING but watching. SK will not have the gutts to attack NK even if China and Pakistan fights India. NK got nukes and NK will not hesiate to use it on SK.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

To put it this way, no one in this world deep inside their hearts wants to fight the Chinese except the indians. Indians are so decived that they think they can take the Chinese on. The Americans know that so well that is why they are so "sweet" to the indians.

In 1998 India is heavily sanctioned by the west due to nuck testing. Then in 2004 everything changed. 

1. When GW Bush first became president his first words are to keep China down, he say the eye pooping development of China not just in enconomy but in all aspects are unacceptble. However Osma Bin Ladin came out and bombed the towers and that give the Chinese another 8 years of developments. In 2008 Bush became "Sweet" to both india and China attending the 2008 Olympic offcourse and saying China is BIG and important meanwhile making out with india. lol

2. Everyday when Uncle Sam wakes up the first thing he does is to looking at China's growth. Then BOOM Uncle Sam realized and all of a SUDDEN india became so "SWEET". 

3. Forget about all the sanctions, forget about all the past bad memory, india is america's "best" friend now, lol. and the indians believed it. lol again.

4. buying lots of stuffs from USA, well actually not that much at all except some transports, helis, maybe fighters, and ships. Building an "allince" that will last for "1000s" of years to come with india, while keep borrowing trillions of dollars from the evil Chinese. lol

5. Saying great things about the greatest democracy and English speaking country in the world pumping indians up and up and up. 

6. You know what is gonna happen next. lol


----------



## sraja

Hey War mongering Chinese communist Nazi fanatics, Remember what happened to Nazi germany?. The attitude of today's China is similar to What nazi germany behaved in 1930s, expansion of borders with land grabbing, threatening neighbors with military power, ethnic cleansing minorities etc. Brag all your want with your russian copy weapons. But, don't forget what happened to Nazi Germany at the end. We most of Asia will unit to fight you. You have enemies everywhere. You have problems with Vietman. You have problems with Japan. You have problems with Philippines, Indonesia, Taiwan. And, with US. We will unite and fight you. At the end, Tibet will be freed. XinXinang will be freed. Inner mongolia will be freed. A Democratic world friendly China will be born and Asia and world be more peaceful after that. India and China will become more friends as Tibet will act as buffer like as it was in historically. This is what is going to happen. Your arrogance will become your downfall.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

sraja said:


> Hey War mongering Chinese communist Nazi fanatics, Remember what happened to Nazi germany?. The attitude of today's China is similar to What nazi germany behaved in 1930s, expansion of borders with land grabbing, threatening neighbors with military power, ethnic cleansing minorities etc. Brag all your want with your russian copy weapons. But, don't forget what happened to Nazi Germany at the end. We most of Asia will unit to fight you. You have enemies everywhere. You have problems with Vietman. You have problems with Japan. You have problems with Philippines, Indonesia, Taiwan. And, with US. We will unite and fight you. At the end, Tibet will be freed. XinXinang will be freed. Inner mongolia will be freed. A Democratic world friendly China will be born and Asia and world be more peaceful after that. India and China will become more friends as Tibet will act as buffer like as it was in historically. This is what is going to happen. Your arrogance will become your downfall.





Nice try man, but it is not gonna work. Not on me.


----------



## girishktyagi

AerospaceEngineer said:


> You are funny. Think that when China attacks taiwan, india then go on and stabe China in the back. LOL, you think we dont know your "genius" plan? What do you think Pakistan is there for?
> 
> Well, let me answer this question. We Chinese support Pakistan, UNCOIDITIONLLY. Anything in the Chinese arsnel such as the NEWEST J-20 will be in Pakistan's inventory. Pakistan is there to gaurd our back and we Chinese are there to guard their pack.
> 
> Now image if Taiwan and China go to war and if india dare to attck China, then China and Pakistan join and attack india from North, West, and East. You tell me the outcome.



Well stabing at the back is an attribute of Chinese. Remember 1962? when India China celebrated there friendship but then China followed with a surprise attack?

Also, I no ware mentioned India will attack China. Did I? read it with wide open eyes.

Rather, I specifically mentioned that India will never attack China.

As far as your friendship with Pakistan is concerned, then let me tell you. You guys are natural partners because

1. China and Pakistan share their thought on suppressing democracy and promoting ruling of elites (PLA, communist in China) and (Military, ISI in Pakistan) over their masses.

2. China need foolish Pakistan to mingle with India who is only going to challenge China in every field in many years to come. 

3. Pakistan is a professional country who has mastered the suicidal art. They will suicide while fighting against India on the command of China. Well? they hardly need any development and stability in their country. (just look that their history till today) They are mare terror factory of the World today.

Now lets look at some serious reasons.

1. China need alternative to Sea lanes passing from Indian ocean for its oil, gas and trade. Pakistan is the best alternative as it can provide land access. They have already developed Gwader port for the same and developing road access to the port as well. 

2. China need Pakistan's help to restrain Islamic terror away from its Xinijing (pls correct the name if wrong) province which as seen ethic and religious voilance recently.

3. Chinese want to access Afghanistan for its resources and been close to Pakistan will defiantly help them for the same.

from Pakistan's point of view, China is like a god father for them after US who will take care of them in providing economic aid and weapons in future. Also Pakistan think that China will come in its rescue in case of its war with India. 

I can only assure Pakistanis and my Chinese fellow the below mentioned things.

1. There is a distinct possibility of war between India and China as they have more to lose then gain in war.

2. Its a remote possibility that China will involve in Indo Pakistan conflict (they may provide guns though  ) as they have huge trade relationship at stake which is already 60 billion+ and will be 100 billion by 2015 (i.e 75% of entire Pakistan GDP).

3. Also Chinese leaders are no foolish (just like their friend Pakistan) who generally underestimate India's defense strength along with after effect of war with India in terms of global economy and relationship with other countries.

4. The world is more comfortable with India's growth then of Chinese. Just look at how everyone is alarmed with Chinese 5th generation fighter program which will be inducted by 2018 where as no adverse discussion on India/Russia program which will also be ready for induction by 2018.

Japan as already declared defence preparation against possible Chinese threat. Not to forget US relationship.

India's growth will be real peaceful as compare to Chinese one as the world is busy talking about China, where as India is already second fastest economy, and 3 most preferred FDI destination with massive defense modernization program.

Your eyes will popup with astonishment with India's growth in every sphere in next 10 years where will be

1. Become UNSE permanent member
2. Undisputed defense power with strong navy, military and air force,
3. Fabulous defense and economy relationship with US/Russia/EU/Japan (well with everyone except Pakistan and China)
4. We will overtake China by 2014 as fastest growing domestic oriented economy in the World.
5. Second most favorite FDI destination after China.
6. Apart from IT/ITES/BDO/R&D powerhouse, we will pose a grave challenges to China in manufacturing. (Well Chinese labour is already getting expensive and aging population with 35.5 maiden age)
7. India is already the country with youngest and highly skilled people who are ready to take on with everyone HEAD TO HEAD. 

its your choice to be partner of India or the enemy. Safety first. 

--cheers


----------



## AGHORI

AerospaceEngineer said:


> You are funny. Think that when China attacks taiwan, india then go on and stabe China in the back. LOL, you think we dont know your "genius" plan? What do you think Pakistan is there for?
> 
> Well, let me answer this question. We Chinese support Pakistan, UNCOIDITIONLLY. Anything in the Chinese arsnel such as the NEWEST J-20 will be in Pakistan's inventory. Pakistan is there to gaurd our back and we Chinese are there to guard their pack.
> 
> Now image if Taiwan and China go to war and if india dare to attck China, then China and Pakistan join and attack india from North, West, and East. You tell me the outcome.



Man you are very funny. Do you think that we are not aware of your "genius" plan? why do you think the Indian military is preparing for a two front war? India is very important to both, the US and Russia, do you think they are going to keep quiet? Especially the US? why do you think the US is arming India with sophisticated weapons? why do you think it is allowing israel to sell advanced weapons to India? why do you think US and India are conducting so many military exercises? If china and pakistan attack India then the US will jump in as it regards India as a counterweight to china and it cannot allow weakening of India as that would make china too powerful in the region and this will be detrimental to the american strategic interests.
Now you tell me the outcome


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

girishktyagi said:


> Well stabing at the back is an attribute of Chinese. Remember 1962? when India China celebrated there friendship but then China followed with a surprise attack?
> 
> Also, I no ware mentioned India will attack China. Did I? read it with wide open eyes.



Wrong.

This false narrative has been so deeply ingrained in the Indian psyche. Here are the facts:

1959: India hosts the Tibetan government in exile, immediately after they failed to overthrow the Chinese government. India hosted our largest separatist group, all while singing the false song of "Hindi Chini bhai bhai".

1962: As if that was not bad enough, in this year came Nehru's forward policy, which led to the Sino-Indian war. After this, China and Pakistan became much closer, due to having a mutual enemy.

It was INDIA who backstabbed China, by hosting our largest separatist group on their soil, even after coming up with that ridiculous LIE, of "Hindi Chini bhai bhai".



girishktyagi said:


> its your choice to be partner of India or the enemy. Safety first.



India already made this choice.  The result is that both of India's largest neighbours (China+Pakistan) are now rivals.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AGHORI

@Aerospace Engineer. As far as the question of china attacking Taiwan is concerned, US has made it clear some time back that it will defend Taiwan at all costs in case of an armed attack on Taiwan. Do you think china is in a position to take on the US in a direct war?

And India attacking china when china attacks Taiwan?  I don't think India would want to get involved in an unnecessary war. Protecting Taiwan is not a part of our policy. so relax.


----------



## IND151

*there must not be war between china and India.* if it occurs it will have devastating on both nations. both nations can not risk their economies. *India should do its best to its economic and military might. when India will rise after 25 or 30 years later as economic superpower we will have greater impact on world politics*. *then we can solve Tibet problem as we want due to our enormous economic weight*. our status as economic superpower will allow us to built *massive and highly advanced army, air force,navy and nuclear missile forces*.* thus due to our massive military and economic might china will have to solve Tibet problem through diplomacy.* *if we want solve Tibet problem we have to be very mighty. *


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

AGHORI said:


> Man you are very funny. Do you think that we are not aware of your "genius" plan? why do you think the Indian military is preparing for a two front war? India is very important to both, the US and Russia, do you think they are going to keep quiet? Especially the US? why do you think the US is arming India with sophisticated weapons? why do you think it is allowing israel to sell advanced weapons to India? why do you think US and India are conducting so many military exercises? If china and pakistan attack India then the US will jump in as it regards India as a counterweight to china and it cannot allow weakening of India as that would make china too powerful in the region and this will be detrimental to the american strategic interests.
> Now you tell me the outcome



LOL, you do know that the USA's closest partner in the region has always been Pakistan, right?

In the 1970's war, America even sent a carrier group to intimidate India, and to show support to Pakistan.

And today, due to the WoT, the USA-Pakistan alliance has become even more important for America.

Regarding the USA and China, this is what Obama said:



> The relationship between the US and China will shape the 21st Century, President Barack Obama has said, as top officials met in Washington for talks.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8169869.stm

The USA and China have the two largest economies on Earth (India is not even in the top ten largest economies) and share the largest bilateral economic relationship in the world. China+Pakistan combined are strategically/economically vital for America, unlike India. India has always aligned itself with Russia.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

IND151 said:


> *there must not be war between china and India.* if it occurs it will have devastating on both nations. both nations can not risk their economies. *India should do its best to its economic and military might. when India will rise after 25 or 30 years later as economic superpower we will have greater impact on world politics*. *then we can solve Tibet problem as we want due to our enormous economic weight*. our status as economic superpower will allow us to built *massive and highly advanced army, air force,navy and nuclear missile forces*.* thus due to our massive military and economic might china will have to solve Tibet problem through diplomacy.* *if we want solve Tibet problem we have to be very mighty. *



You're talking about becoming a "superpower"? When will this happen?

Here is the GDP data and forecasts.

*List of countries by future GDP (nominal) estimates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*

China right now is the 2nd largest economy, yet we are NOT a superpower at all.

So how can India become one?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## IND151

@ Chinese dragon
* you are right that India is not in top ten economies.* *but it is one of the world's largest market. *us wants big share in this market. *do you think US will remain silent if china attacks this market? NO!* *its true that India has always aligned itself with Russia.* *but it does not mean that us will neglect increasing Chinese influence in south Asia.* *so in INDO Chinese war USA will sent tonnes of weapons and trillions of $ to India*. *with this aid Indian army will ensure stalemate in war.*
*further more USA will impose sanctions on china.*


----------



## girishktyagi

AerospaceEngineer said:


> Nukes? Why use nukes?
> 
> I can tell you that if India or China ever use nukes it will BE INDA FIRST using it. We will of course lunch counter attack!



You must read more of other news and other countries foreign policies (and not just what PLA want to you read).

India has "no first use" policy. And we do obey our policies. 

Other other hand, there was a controversy recently on PLA's statement on change of "on first use policy". I believe that China will also never use it first, but point to be noted that we don't even have controversies in India on this matter where as you guys does.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You're talking about becoming a "superpower"? When will this happen?
> 
> Here is the GDP data and forecasts.
> 
> *List of countries by future GDP (nominal) estimates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> 
> China right now is the 2nd largest economy, yet we are NOT a superpower at all.
> 
> So how can India become one?



Because this guy say so??????

At least in this forum, more Indians want their country to be superpower than Chinese. But their projection is way into the future, not in the next 5-10 years. They also assume that because of their lack of population control, it benefit India vs China. Is China being foolish for control the population? Its too early to tell. 

The problem with projection far into the future is that its unreliable. But it actually lift up the spirits of people who are in dispair. So I do not want to kick people who are already down.


----------



## faithfulguy

IND151 said:


> @ Chinese dragon
> * you are right that India is not in top ten economies.* *but it is worlds second largest market. *us wants big share in this market. *do you think US will remain silent if china attacks this market? NO!* its true that India has always aligned itself with Russia. *but it does not mean that us will neglect increasing Chinese influence in south Asia.* *so in INDO Chinese war USA will sent tonnes of weapons and trillions of $ to India*. with this aid Indian army will ensure stalemate in war.
> further more USA will impose sanctions on china.



The two largest economy are US and China. I'm not even sure if India is one of the top 10 market out there. Also, the Indian economy is more isolated compare to other Asian economy. I do not think US economy, except for IT outsourcing, would be affected much. Look up the trade volume between US and India and that will show insignificant it is. If you want India to be more important to the US, buy more US weapons. That is the only way.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## girishktyagi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Wrong.
> 
> This false narrative has been so deeply ingrained in the Indian psyche. Here are the facts:
> 
> 1959: India hosts the Tibetan government in exile, immediately after they failed to overthrow the Chinese government. India hosted our largest separatist group, all while singing the false song of "Hindi Chini bhai bhai".
> 
> 1962: As if that was not bad enough, in this year came Nehru's forward policy, which led to the Sino-Indian war. After this, China and Pakistan became much closer, due to having a mutual enemy.
> 
> It was INDIA who backstabbed China, by hosting our largest separatist group on their soil, even after coming up with that ridiculous LIE, of "Hindi Chini bhai bhai".
> 
> 
> 
> India already made its choice.  The result is that both of India's largest neighbours (China+Pakistan) are now rivals.



Marriage of China Pakistan will not last as Pakistan just had a divorce from US after looting them for money and weapons. I believe that Chinese are intelligent enough to divorce Pakistan before it play its dirty game of begging and blackmailing. 

If you want to avoid terror attack in Beijing, then don't support Pakistan. Choice is yours. Safety first.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kingdurgaking

IND151 said:


> @ Chinese dragon
> * you are right that India is not in top ten economies.* *but it is worlds second largest market. *us wants big share in this market. *do you think US will remain silent if china attacks this market? NO!* its true that India has always aligned itself with Russia. *but it does not mean that us will neglect increasing Chinese influence in south Asia.* *so in INDO Chinese war USA will sent tonnes of weapons and trillions of $ to India. with this aid Indian army will ensure stalemate in war.
> further more USA will impose sanctions on china*.




Your facts?? India doesnt need any one's help as of now.. The investment we have made so far is enough for 2 decades to defend China(Weapons + infra).. We just have to make sure our investment is yielding fruits..
China is no god to defeat India completely.. and so is India..

sino-indo war will be just border skirmishes .. nothing more than that..


----------



## faithfulguy

These are the 10 largest trading partner of US. India is not among them.

Country Exports Imports Total Trade[2] 
Canada 204.7 224.9 429.6 
China 69.6 296.4 366.0 
Mexico 129.0 176.5 305.5 
Japan 51.2 95.9 147.1 
Germany 43.3 71.3 114.6 
United Kingdom 45.7 47.5 93.2 
South Korea 28.6 39.2 67.9 
France 26.5 34.0 60.6 
Netherlands 32.3 16.1 48.4 
Taiwan 18.4 28.4 46.8

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

girishktyagi said:


> Marriage of China Pakistan will not last as Pakistan just had a divorce from US after looting them for money and weapons. I believe that Chinese are intelligent enough to divorce Pakistan before it play its dirty game of begging and blackmailing.
> 
> If you want to avoid terror attack in Beijing, then don't support Pakistan. Choice is yours. Safety first.



The terrorist would not attack China. If China would roll a tank over protestors and student, imaging what they would do to terrorists...


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> These are the 10 largest trading partner of US. India is not among them.
> 
> Country Exports Imports Total Trade[2]
> Canada 204.7 224.9 429.6
> China 69.6 296.4 366.0
> Mexico 129.0 176.5 305.5
> Japan 51.2 95.9 147.1
> Germany 43.3 71.3 114.6
> United Kingdom 45.7 47.5 93.2
> South Korea 28.6 39.2 67.9
> France 26.5 34.0 60.6
> Netherlands 32.3 16.1 48.4
> Taiwan 18.4 28.4 46.8




Fine.. India has got a powerful lobby.. do you want to undermine that?


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You're talking about becoming a "superpower"? When will this happen?
> 
> Here is the GDP data and forecasts.
> 
> *List of countries by future GDP (nominal) estimates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> 
> China right now is the 2nd largest economy, yet we are NOT a superpower at all.
> 
> So how can India become one?



Why didn't you provide PPP terms?
Which actually represents the purchasing power and a better way to calculate strength?
India is 4th in it.


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> The terrorist would not attack China. If China would roll a tank over protestors and student, imaging what they would do to terrorists...



very funny man.. terrorist dont come out in street with stickers on there forehead stating i am a terrorist.. Terrorist just execute the task.. they are not worried about there life..


----------



## IND151

@ faithful guy
read 6th sentence in post no 483 carefully.
* though we are not ten top economies we have billions of buyers.* so us will not neglect us. we provide them cheap BPO and IT services.


----------



## faithfulguy

kingdurgaking said:


> Your facts?? India doesnt need any one's help as of now.. The investment we have made so far is enough for 2 decades to defend China(Weapons + infra).. We just have to make sure our investment is yielding fruits..
> China is no god to defeat India completely.. and so is India..
> 
> sino-indo war will be just border skirmishes .. nothing more than that..



Totally disagree. The disparity of defence capability between China and India is widen with time, not shrinking. The only way for India to secure itself in the future is by join the US camp. Otherwise, according to Lee Kuan Yow(Former PM of Singapore) All the Asian countries combined (Including India) would not be capable of confronting China in the future. He is known as the "wise man of Asia". Please take heed to his advise.


----------



## Jackdaws

I doubt the Chinese are brave enough to start a war in 2013. Or ever.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

faithfulguy said:


> Totally disagree. The disparity of defence capability between China and India is widen with time, not shrinking. The only way for India to secure itself in the future is by join the US camp. Otherwise, according to Lee Kuan Yow(Former PM of Singapore) *All the Asian countries combined (Including India) would not be capable of confronting China in the future.* He is known as the "wise man of Asia". Please take heed to his advise.



WAH!!!!!!
Wettest dream i have ever seen by a person.

So many agencies/experts have said that China overestimates it's power way too much.
Anyways,Indo-China war will drag both countries several decades back and it would be a big disaster for the global economy as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

Check out the 10 largest trading partners of India. Check out the size of the trade. They are peanuts.

United Arab Emirates 23.9 19.4 43.4 
China 11.6 30.8 42.4 
United States 19.5 16.9 36.5 
Saudi Arabia 3.9 17.0 21.0 
Germany 5.4 10.3 15.7 
Switzerland 589.39 14.6 15.2 
Singapore 7.5 6.4 14.0 
Australia 1.3 12.4 13.7 
Iran 1.8 11.5 13.3 
Hong Kong 7.8 4.7 12.6 

as compare to China below and US which I posted above

United States 333.74 81.36 252.38 
Japan 266.73 150.60 116.13 
Hong Kong 203.64 12.92 190.73 
South Korea 186.07 112.14 73.93 
Taiwan 129.21 103.34 25.88 
Germany 115.00 55.79 59.21 
Australia 59.68 37.44 22.25 
Russia 56.91 23.83 33.08 
Malaysia 53.56 32.10 21.46 
Singapore 52.48 20.17 32.31


----------



## faithfulguy

kingdurgaking said:


> Fine.. India has got a powerful lobby.. do you want to undermine that?



I won't need to as the powerful lobby is restricted in this forum.


----------



## faithfulguy

IND151 said:


> @ faithful guy
> read 6th sentence in post no 483 carefully.
> * though we are not ten top economies we have billions of buyers.* so us will not neglect us. we provide them cheap BPO and IT services.



You mentioned that India has the 2nd largest market. Are you going to take back that statement?

Stop boasting.


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

faithfulguy said:


> Check out the 10 largest trading partners of India. Check out the size of the trade. They are peanuts.
> 
> United Arab Emirates 23.9 19.4 43.4
> China 11.6 30.8 42.4
> United States 19.5 16.9 36.5
> Saudi Arabia 3.9 17.0 21.0
> Germany 5.4 10.3 15.7
> Switzerland 589.39 14.6 15.2
> Singapore 7.5 6.4 14.0
> Australia 1.3 12.4 13.7
> Iran 1.8 11.5 13.3
> Hong Kong 7.8 4.7 12.6
> 
> as compare to China below and US which I posted above
> 
> United States 333.74 81.36 252.38
> Japan 266.73 150.60 116.13
> Hong Kong 203.64 12.92 190.73
> South Korea 186.07 112.14 73.93
> Taiwan 129.21 103.34 25.88
> Germany 115.00 55.79 59.21
> Australia 59.68 37.44 22.25
> Russia 56.91 23.83 33.08
> Malaysia 53.56 32.10 21.46
> Singapore 52.48 20.17 32.31



The point is growth!The growth that India has shown.
BAH! leave it you won't understand,when you already have an anti-india bug in in your mind.


----------



## faithfulguy

Punjabbi Munda said:


> WAH!!!!!!
> Wettest dream i have ever seen by a person.
> 
> So many agencies/experts have said that China overestimates it's power way too much.
> Anyways,Indo-China war will drag both countries several decades back and it would be a big disaster for the global economy as well.



That was not my statement. That is from the former PM of singapore who has many respect from the international community. So its no one's wet dream. And the way things are going, I would agree with him more so than disagree with him.


----------



## faithfulguy

Punjabbi Munda said:


> The point is growth!The growth that India has shown.
> BAH! leave it you won't understand,when you already have an anti-india bug in in your mind.



Why is it that when I brought out a fact, you guys change the topic? Lets stick with one fact at a time and not change the topic once I bring up a fact.


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> Totally disagree. The disparity of defence capability between China and India is widen with time, not shrinking. The only way for India to secure itself in the future is by join the US camp. Otherwise, according to Lee Kuan Yow(Former PM of Singapore) All the Asian countries combined (Including India) would not be capable of confronting China in the future. He is known as the "wise man of Asia". Please take heed to his advise.



hmmm .... You may disagree... A war can happen only if the attacker feels the opponent is weak.. All major wars that India fought had same inner root.. China attacked India exactly after it carefully studied that Indian defence is weak.. When india started equipping with the help it got from US & Russia .. War ended.... I believe China is not a crack like North Korea.. China will surely evaluate the damage it will face during war.. India in 21 st century is not India of 20th century.. India still a leader in NAM will not follow your advice of joining US camp.. India a raising power.. will take strategic friendship from US and Russia but not join its camp.. India is tooooooo big to get into ones camp i hope you understand.. 

As you said India wont confront with China.. India will save its interest..


----------



## girishktyagi

faithfulguy said:


> The two largest economy are US and China. I'm not even sure if India is one of the top 10 market out there. Also, the Indian economy is more isolated compare to other Asian economy. I do not think US economy, except for IT outsourcing, would be affected much. Look up the trade volume between US and India and that will show insignificant it is. If you want India to be more important to the US, buy more US weapons. That is the only way.



You just need to read more of economic forum apart from defense one 
I agree, volumes matters, but volumes are created with over the period of time. India is growing at 8.5% GDP and its already 1.45 Trillion economy with third largest middle class in the world. It has a potential of maintain this growth for next 30 years (not my words). Now you can do some maths to find out the volumes of trade.

India 2010

* 2010 GDP growth: 8.5% (could cross 9%) 
* Fastest growing automobile market (average growht 26% in last 10 years). Also India is third largest automobilie exporter in Asia after Japan and SKeora. China is at fourth.
* India has 65% of Global IT/ITES/BPO outsourcing business with $72 billion export.
* India's manufacturing is growing at 14% annual average (mostly on domestic demand, which is better then export oriented).
* India already a third preferred destination for FDI (only after China/US). But 2015 it will be on second position.
* India is building world class highways at 12km per day i.e 4380km pa. Target is to take it to 20km pa by 2012.
* In last 10 years India has stated building Subways in 5 cities now and by 2015, 12 cities will be having subways.
* More then 23 airports are either under construction/expedition/up gradation in India right now.
* Read more futures cities under construction in India

Dholera SIR
GIFT Gujarat,Gujarat International Tec City,Gujarat International Finance Tec-City (GIFT)

* Read more about mega industrial projects like DMIC (1000 KM one of the biggest industrial area cone completed by 2020)

Following is the site for Branding of India. good source to read about India 
India Resource Centre





* Fastest growing Telecom market in the World (already 700 million connections)
* India going to spend 1+ trillion on infrastructure development in 2012-17 period alone.
*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Why didn't you provide PPP terms?
> Which actually represents the purchasing power and a better way to calculate strength?
> India is 4th in it.



LOL! 

GDP (PPP) is worthless for international comparisons. Since obviously prices are different in different countries. The only way to compare is by using nominal GDP.

Someone who earns $2 a day may be considered "middle class" in India, but it won't buy you anything in Hong Kong or Tokyo.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> I won't need to as the powerful lobby is restricted in this forum.



That was given as a response for the trade... A powerful lobby is equally powerful than a trade partner..


----------



## faithfulguy

kingdurgaking said:


> hmmm .... You may disagree... A war can happen only if the attacker feels the opponent is weak.. All major wars that India fought had same inner root.. China attacked India exactly after it carefully studied that Indian defence is weak.. When india started equipping with the help it got from US & Russia .. War ended.... I believe China is not a crack like North Korea.. China will surely evaluate the damage it will face during war.. India in 21 st century is not India of 20th century.. India still a leader in NAM will not follow your advice of joining US camp.. India a raising power.. will take strategic friendship from US and Russia but not join its camp.. India is tooooooo big to get into ones camp i hope you understand..
> 
> As you said India wont confront with China.. India will save its interest..



The statement of "India still a leader in NAM" sound like India of 20th century than India of 21st century. As for India a rising power, no one is disputing that. But many countries are rising powers out there so India is not unique. As for India is too big to get into one camp, I have to disagree with you on that as India currently is not that big and if it one day become very big, then it can reevalute its strategy. But do not base its foreign relationship strategy on its economy projections.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Jackdaws said:


> I doubt the Chinese are brave enough to start a war in 2013. Or ever.



I'm sure that is what you thought before 1962 as well. 

Which may have been the reason India chose to host the Tibetan government in exile, backstabbing China in 1959, despite the silly talk of Hindi Chini bhai bhai, which was of course invented by India.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alpha proton

girishktyagi said:


> You just need to read more of economic forum apart from defense one
> I agree, volumes matters, but volumes are created with over the period of time. India is growing at 8.5&#37; GDP and its already 1.45 Trillion economy with third largest middle class in the world. It has a potential of maintain this growth for next 30 years (not my words). Now you can do some maths to find out the volumes of trade.
> 
> India 2010
> 
> * 2010 GDP growth: 8.5% (could cross 9%)
> * Fastest growing automobile market (average growht 26% in last 10 years). Also India is third largest automobilie exporter in Asia after Japan and SKeora. China is at fourth.
> * India has 65% of Global IT/ITES/BPO outsourcing business with $72 billion export.
> * India's manufacturing is growing at 14% annual average (mostly on domestic demand, which is better then export oriented).
> * India already a third preferred destination for FDI (only after China/US). But 2015 it will be on second position.
> * India is building world class highways at 12km per day i.e 4380km pa. Target is to take it to 20km pa by 2012.
> * In last 10 years India has stated building Subways in 5 cities now and by 2015, 12 cities will be having subways.
> * More then 23 airports are either under construction/expedition/up gradation in India right now.
> * Read more futures cities under construction in India
> 
> Dholera SIR
> GIFT Gujarat,Gujarat International Tec City,Gujarat International Finance Tec-City (GIFT)
> 
> * Read more about mega industrial projects like DMIC (1000 KM one of the biggest industrial area cone completed by 2020)
> 
> Following is the site for Branding of India. good source to read about India
> India Resource Centre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Fastest growing Telecom market in the World (already 700 million connections)
> * India going to spend 1+ trillion on infrastructure development in 2012-17 period alone.
> *




get ready for more and more Chinese attack's now,I last time I saw 1 guy stating this,he came under attack from various corners.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

girishktyagi said:


> You just need to read more of economic forum apart from defense one
> I agree, volumes matters, but volumes are created with over the period of time. India is growing at 8.5% GDP and its already 1.45 Trillion economy with third largest middle class in the world. It has a potential of maintain this growth for next 30 years (not my words). Now you can do some maths to find out the volumes of trade.
> 
> India 2010
> 
> * 2010 GDP growth: 8.5% (could cross 9%)
> * Fastest growing automobile market (average growht 26% in last 10 years). Also India is third largest automobilie exporter in Asia after Japan and SKeora. China is at fourth.
> * India has 65% of Global IT/ITES/BPO outsourcing business with $72 billion export.
> * India's manufacturing is growing at 14% annual average (mostly on domestic demand, which is better then export oriented).
> * India already a third preferred destination for FDI (only after China/US). But 2015 it will be on second position.
> * India is building world class highways at 12km per day i.e 4380km pa. Target is to take it to 20km pa by 2012.
> * In last 10 years India has stated building Subways in 5 cities now and by 2015, 12 cities will be having subways.
> * More then 23 airports are either under construction/expedition/up gradation in India right now.
> * Read more futures cities under construction in India
> 
> Dholera SIR
> GIFT Gujarat,Gujarat International Tec City,Gujarat International Finance Tec-City (GIFT)
> 
> * Read more about mega industrial projects like DMIC (1000 KM one of the biggest industrial area cone completed by 2020)
> 
> Following is the site for Branding of India. good source to read about India
> India Resource Centre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Fastest growing Telecom market in the World (already 700 million connections)
> * India going to spend 1+ trillion on infrastructure development in 2012-17 period alone.
> *



When I look at all these projections, it make me wonder the LCA designer projected India's air defence power back in 1983. Its almost 30 years since 1983. And I wonder how the designed believed that India had exceeded the projections.

In any case, the thing that is impressive about India begins and ends at its population size. This had provide much hope for the future but misery at the present. I hope India has a better future than the present for the sake of so many people in the slums.


----------



## alpha proton

^^^



I predicted about it a moment ago.


----------



## faithfulguy

kingdurgaking said:


> That was given as a response for the trade... A powerful lobby is equally powerful than a trade partner..



And I was responding to your statement as well. Please go read it again.


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> The statement of "India still a leader in NAM" sound like India of 20th century than India of 21st century. As for India a rising power, no one is disputing that. But many countries are rising powers out there so India is not unique. As for India is too big to get into one camp, I have to disagree with you on that as India currently is not that big and if it one day become very big, then it can reevalute its strategy. But do not base its foreign relationship strategy on its economy projections.



Your opinion is of now ones concern on India being a 20th century leader in NAM.. India is still a active member.. It will still be and will never join any ones camp..
What is big in your dictionary??.. Right now US herself wants India to become a strategic partner.. and looks for close Indo-US friendship.. never ever it iterated to join its camp like Taiwan, Singapore for the matter of fact Israel... US very well nows India is as much big as Europe.. In economic terms Foreign relationship is very much needed for boosting the economy...


----------



## faithfulguy

alpha proton said:


> ^^^
> 
> 
> 
> I predicted about it a moment ago.



You are again wrong in your prediction


----------



## alpha proton

faithfulguy said:


> You are again wrong in your prediction



Just scroll above idiot,and see above ,I already alerted him for insults and attack

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> And I was responding to your statement as well. Please go read it again.



I think i did put my stand correctly... a powerful lobby is as powerful as trading partner.. and your response for lobby restriction in this forum "does it make any sense in the debate?"


----------



## Jackdaws

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'm sure that is what you thought before 1962 as well.
> 
> Which may have been the reason India chose to host the Tibetan government in exile, backstabbing China in 1959, despite the silly talk of Hindi Chini bhai bhai, which was of course invented by India.



I wasn't around then so I didn't really give it much thought. 

Just like Japan invaded China in the 1937 but did not have the balls do so now - so too with China invading India. If they have the guts and balls, both of us will be around in 2013 to see if China does really have it in them in invade India.


----------



## alpha proton

kingdurgaking said:


> I think i did put my stand correctly... a powerful lobby is as powerful as trading partner.. and your response for lobby restriction in this forum "does it make any sense in the debate?"



well the problem is that people with high IQ r unable to understand that,u know why,Ex-Israel.


----------



## faithfulguy

kingdurgaking said:


> Your opinion is of now ones concern on India being a 20th century leader in NAM.. India is still a active member.. It will still be and will never join any ones camp..
> What is big in your dictionary??.. Right now US herself wants India to become a strategic partner.. and looks for close Indo-US friendship.. never ever it iterated to join its camp like Taiwan, Singapore for the matter of fact Israel... US very well nows India is as much big as Europe.. In economic terms Foreign relationship is very much needed for boosting the economy...



India is not even a top 10 economy. India is growing but it still has a long long way to go before its start to surpass its former colonial master. So until it get there, lets stop the talking and start working.

As for US want India to be a strategic partner, it is true. US want both India and Pakistan to be strategic partners and to ensure that these two countries do not attack one another. Only the US is capable of maintaining the peace of South Asia(And I mean by political clout, not using military muscles) . And a peaceful South Asia is important to continuous growth of Asian economy. As you said, India a such a growing power.

As for India is as big as Europe.. I would agree when you are comparing the population, India is much bigger. But using any other measurement, India is has no similarities to Europe as a whole in any statistics.


----------



## faithfulguy

alpha proton said:


> Just scroll above idiot,and see above ,I already alerted him for insults and attack



I was providing objective analysis, not insults or attacks...


----------



## faithfulguy

kingdurgaking said:


> I think i did put my stand correctly... a powerful lobby is as powerful as trading partner.. and your response for lobby restriction in this forum "does it make any sense in the debate?"



What I'm saying is that only Israel has a powerful lobby. All other countries lobby is actually not as important (and not as powerful). They are just back by actual strength instead of the power of lobbying.

I do not see any powerful Indian lobby outside of this forum.


----------



## alpha proton

faithfulguy said:


> I was providing objective analysis, not insults or attacks...



and slums always become part of ur objective analysis,even when it is not required.

And anyway what was ur objective analysis,just thatn the usual rants about indian slum and population,I dont see any other explanation compiled about Indian growth objectively,is their anything 

is it ur habit to post off topic comments or just do it when lost in words.

Ok since u provide analysis objectively tell me something about the business model followed in Gujarat were dolera will b located(i am asking u this because u had already analysed the post which u had already objectively analysed)or like usual u can come with offtopic Indian slums or LCA as an example.


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> India is not even a top 10 economy. India is growing but it still has a long long way to go before its start to surpass its former colonial master. So until it get there, lets stop the talking and start working.


Agreed.. 



> As for US want India to be a strategic partner, it is true. US want both India and Pakistan to be strategic partners and to ensure that these two countries do not attack one another. Only the US is capable of maintaining the peace of South Asia(And I mean by political clout, not using military muscles) . And a peaceful South Asia is important to continuous growth of Asian economy. As you said, India a such a growing power.


Pakistan is there ally not a strategic partner.. US never want war between us ... And do you think US is looking for a growing Asian economy?? US interest in Asia because of growing economies like Singapore, Taiwan and its investment in this place.. US forecast on Asia economy is what making it to lobby here.. Otherwise Asia is another Africa for US... For maintaining peace it is one of duty of Superpower and so is Russia doing the same...




> As for India is as big as Europe.. I would agree when you are comparing the population, India is much bigger. But using any other measurement, India is has no similarities to Europe as a whole in any statistics.


Exactly this is my intention.. India may be backward in European capabilities ... but its billion population is its wealth... So you can agree that India can never be any one's camp...


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> What I'm saying is that only Israel has a powerful lobby. All other countries lobby is actually not as important (and not as powerful). They are just back by actual strength instead of the power of lobbying.
> 
> I do not see any powerful Indian lobby outside of this forum.



hmmm ..
Your knowledge adds a golden feather in your hat  ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

alpha proton said:


> and slums always become part of ur objective analysis,even when it is not required.



Its true that India has many people live in slums and it need to lift people out of poverty. So it needs to grow. That is a fact, not trolling.


----------



## faithfulguy

kingdurgaking said:


> Agreed..
> 
> 
> Pakistan is there ally not a strategic partner.. US never want war between us ... And do you think US is looking for a growing Asian economy?? US interest in Asia because of growing economies like Singapore, Taiwan and its investment in this place.. US forecast on Asia economy is what making it to lobby here.. Otherwise Asia is another Africa for US... For maintaining peace it is one of duty of Superpower and so is Russia doing the same...
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly this is my intention.. India may be backward in European capabilities ... but its billion population is its wealth... So you can agree that India can never be any one's camp...



US has many companies that has investments in Asia and the US economy is closely tie to Asian economy. But that in itself is actual fact, not lobbying in the Isreali lobby. US need to focus on Asian economy without any lobbying like how Isreal is lobbying in Washington DC.

Also, Russia is no longer a superpower. This is a one superpower world,

So if you are saying that a billion population is a wealth, I would have to disagree. I would say the billion poor is what keep a country back. It might be an asset if these billion are lifted out of poverty. But the more people to motivate, the more difficult it is.


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> Its true that India has many people live in slums and it need to lift people out of poverty. So it needs to grow. That is a fact, not trolling.



If you are concerned about this fact.. why dont you and your american economy provide some trillion dollars from your pocket.. 
I guess it is better if one looks after his own problem in the house.. what say?


----------



## girishktyagi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You're talking about becoming a "superpower"? When will this happen?
> 
> Here is the GDP data and forecasts.
> 
> *List of countries by future GDP (nominal) estimates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> 
> China right now is the 2nd largest economy, yet we are NOT a superpower at all.
> 
> So how can India become one?



It was the same case for China in say 15 years back. They where fighting to prove that they are emerging economy, but everyone in West used to laugh. They used to say they are fastest growing but west used to say you are negligible in world trade.

I am afraid Chinese has not learned anything from its own growth. 
Today Chinese taking India so lightly, India, which the second fastest growing economy after China(and one to be fastest growing by 2014).
I only knew, that overconfidence of itself and under estimation of others always kills..!! 

Lets wait and watch in next 10 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

girishktyagi said:


> It was the same case for China in say 15 years back. They where fighting to prove that they are emerging economy, but everyone in West used to laugh. They used to say they are fastest growing but west used to say you are negligible in world trade.
> 
> I am afraid Chinese has not learned anything from its own growth.
> Today Chinese taking India so lightly, India, which the second fastest growing economy after China(and one to be fastest growing by 2014).
> I only knew, that overconfidence of itself and under estimation of others always kills..!!
> 
> Lets wait and watch in next 10 years.



I think you misunderstood my post.

My point is that China is currently the 2nd largest economy, yet we are still NOT a superpower by any definition.

So how can India be a "superpower" if they don't even reach that level?


----------



## kingdurgaking

faithfulguy said:


> US has many companies that has investments in Asia and the US economy is closely tie to Asian economy. But that in itself is actual fact, not lobbying in the Isreali lobby. US need to focus on Asian economy without any lobbying like how Isreal is lobbying in Washington DC.


Exactly as i said US had fore-casted this long back and that is why it is circling around Asian economies now.. And US has to do lobbying because the wealth it has spent on the countries should not go to other countries.. especially Russia.. so dont you think it should not lobby?



> Also, Russia is no longer a superpower. This is a one superpower world,






> So if you are saying that a billion population is a wealth, I would have to disagree. I would say the billion poor is what keep a country back. It might be an asset if these billion are lifted out of poverty. But the more people to motivate, the more difficult it is.


Billion poor keeps a country backward agreed.. And India is currently doing the same to reduce the poverty... This is reflected on number of middle class that has grown.. which it will getter fatter and fatter in coming year...


----------



## girishktyagi

faithfulguy said:


> When I look at all these projections, it make me wonder the LCA designer projected India's air defence power back in 1983. Its almost 30 years since 1983. And I wonder how the designed believed that India had exceeded the projections.
> 
> In any case, the thing that is impressive about India begins and ends at its population size. This had provide much hope for the future but misery at the present. I hope India has a better future than the present for the sake of so many people in the slums.



Thats the problem when we intend to read about sometrhing but with partial interest. Also not to forget the damage of media in vibrant and vocal country like India.

LCA was conceptualized in 1983, but first fund was only release in 1992. 
Why dont you give some of your appreciations that India's defense is so transparency that we are open to give our information of success and failures to everyone (for your food to criticize India ). How about if LCA was all of a sudden appeared in frond of the world (without ever knowing how much of money and time being spent on it?). But then will you have called Indians genius? I guess no.

Anyways, Indian are working on every project which any developed counties are working and that is a matter of pride of us. Success and failure are part of the game. What really matters is we anyhow end up with success.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## girishktyagi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I think you misunderstood my post.
> 
> My point is that China is currently the 2nd largest economy, yet we are still NOT a superpower by any definition.
> 
> So how can India be a "superpower" if they don't even reach that level?



Superpower is very speculative subject. I believe no one other then US is eligible of superpower status as on date (though sustainability is a question).

In today's, globalized world, the concept of superpower is irrelevant and everyone is highly interdependent on each other. 

It is better to talk about influence, and I agree, Chinese influence is increasing every second.

India as of now only influential on regional level, and slowly but steadily getting influential on international stage. Ofcouse there is no match on India China on this matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## girishktyagi

faithfulguy said:


> What I'm saying is that only Israel has a powerful lobby. All other countries lobby is actually not as important (and not as powerful). They are just back by actual strength instead of the power of lobbying.
> 
> I do not see any powerful Indian lobby outside of this forum.



Anyhow you are not in our lobby and thats for sure, so its good of us that you keep dreaming

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## girishktyagi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> LOL!
> 
> GDP (PPP) is worthless for international comparisons. Since obviously prices are different in different countries. The only way to compare is by using nominal GDP.
> 
> Someone who earns $2 a day may be considered "middle class" in India, but it won't buy you anything in Hong Kong or Tokyo.



Considering PPP as worthless is obvious for country like China who is more export oriented economy. But then China should know that export oriented model (Borrowed from Japan) is not the only way to grow. India is also clocking the 8&#37;+ GDP growth with its domestically driven economy and thats where (PPP, Purchasing power matters). Read more on PPP impact.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dyfate

CardSharp said:


> That's what I thought too, but at least in this format I think person to person exchange is actually a bad idea. I've come to feel that our collective personalities are mostly incongruent. Perhaps the reason why our ancestors got along so well was because there was a giant mountain between us and few willing to cross it.



PP now try to cross it by plane man, buy a ticket to Dehli or Beijing from your travel agent PP


----------



## girishktyagi

AerospaceEngineer said:


> LOL, Indian alliance with WHO? I can tell you that if war ever breaks out NO one will help India. NO ONE! Not even Russia.
> 
> USA will be so happy, singing and dancing with joy. Even if Chinese win. Chinese will suffer losses, and its encomy will get hurt and that is exactly what the americans want! USA will not send one troop, one ship, one plane to help india. Europeen also watching, Japan watching but worrying, Chinese wins they are NEXT. SK, lol do NOTHING but watching. SK will not have the gutts to attack NK even if China and Pakistan fights India. NK got nukes and NK will not hesiate to use it on SK.



I dont know what do you mean by alliane in business. But if your are taling about inestments and business partnership (just like Taiwan/Chine or Japan/Chinese companies) then India as a pretty good record and that will be a big list. You can spend some time reading about India business for more insite.

Just an example

China&#8217;s Huawei to invest $2 bn on Indian telecom lab, factory


----------



## IND151

*



by girishktyagi
You just need to read more of economic forum apart from defense one 
I agree, volumes matters, but volumes are created with over the period of time. India is growing at 8.5&#37; GDP and its already 1.45 Trillion economy with third largest middle class in the world. It has a potential of maintain this growth for next 30 years (not my words). Now you can do some maths to find out the volumes of trade.

India 2010

* 2010 GDP growth: 8.5% (could cross 9%) 
* Fastest growing automobile market (average growht 26% in last 10 years). Also India is third largest automobilie exporter in Asia after Japan and SKeora. China is at fourth.
* India has 65% of Global IT/ITES/BPO outsourcing business with $72 billion export.
* India's manufacturing is growing at 14% annual average (mostly on domestic demand, which is better then export oriented).
* India already a third preferred destination for FDI (only after China/US). But 2015 it will be on second position.
* India is building world class highways at 12km per day i.e 4380km pa. Target is to take it to 20km pa by 2012.
* In last 10 years India has stated building Subways in 5 cities now and by 2015, 12 cities will be having subways.
* More then 23 airports are either under construction/expedition/up gradation in India right now.
* Read more futures cities under construction in India

Dholera SIR
GIFT Gujarat,Gujarat International Tec City,Gujarat International Finance Tec-City (GIFT)

* Read more about mega industrial projects like DMIC (1000 KM one of the biggest industrial area cone completed by 2020)

Following is the site for Branding of India. good source to read about India 
India Resource Centre





* Fastest growing Telecom market in the World (already 700 million connections)
* India going to spend 1+ trillion on infrastructure development in 2012-17 period alone.
*

Click to expand...

* *thanks friend! i hope some members read bolded part well.*


----------



## HongWu

girishktyagi said:


> Indo China war if become reality, then it will only happens after Sino-Taiwan or North-South Keora-Japan-US war.


India's strategic plan is to make a move on Tibet if something breaks out between China and USA, Japan, South Korea or Taiwan. The whole purpose is to put China in a two-front war position.

That is why China would need to roll back IAF in the *first few days of the war*. That would allow us to move quickly to liberate Kashmir and cut off the northeast from Siliguri Gorge.

Once India is dissected into pieces and our cruise missiles hit critical infrastructure in north Indian cities, then Pakistan can finish the job.

China's goal is not to get stuck in stalemate or a quagmire. Go in, mess them up badly, and pass the wounded animal to Pakistan to deal with. There will be bigger fish to fry in the form of US, Japan, South Korea or Taiwan.



AerospaceEngineer said:


> HongHu, you forgot to point out one important aspect of warfare.
> 
> Space warfare. In the initial phase of the war. Chinese will lunch anti-satalite attack agains indian satalites, india only has a small amout of satalites and completely rely on imports. Wipe out their satalite will given the Chinese a decisive advantage, it will render india's spying, bomb guiding ability to utter zero. Then the real war begins.


Ha ha...... these Indians don't have many satellites to speak of. They probably don't even work.



AerospaceEngineer said:


> 4. Advance into enemy zone. Our troops get into Pakistan and attack from westt side where it is flat which is great for armor and infantry battle. Gather air support, artily, tanks alone with Pakistani military attack from west side. Kashimir, Deli, and others you name it.


I think it would be hard to transport heavy equipment to South Asian plains. The most PLA can do probably ends in the mountainous areas. But PLAAF can hit Indian Army from above while they are defending against Pakistan Army.



AerospaceEngineer said:


> USA will be so happy, singing and dancing with joy. Even if Chinese win. Chinese will suffer losses, and its encomy will get hurt and that is exactly what the americans want!


That is why we need to loot India of all its jewels and gold when we attack. To pay for the cost of the war. At the very least, we have to loot Delhi even if we cannot attack further south.

Pakistan Army will need to lead the way to Delhi but airborne PLAAF with IFV can give assistance too. When the war is over, Pakistan and China split the spoils of war.  Once Pakistan gets so much gold and jewels from India, it will be a very wealthy country!



sraja said:


> Hey War mongering Chinese communist Nazi fanatics, Remember what happened to Nazi germany?. The attitude of today's China is similar to What nazi germany behaved in 1930s, expansion of borders with land grabbing, threatening neighbors with military power, ethnic cleansing minorities etc. Brag all your want with your russian copy weapons. But, don't forget what happened to Nazi Germany at the end. We most of Asia will unit to fight you. You have enemies everywhere. You have problems with Vietman. You have problems with Japan. You have problems with Philippines, Indonesia, Taiwan. And, with US. We will unite and fight you. At the end, Tibet will be freed. XinXinang will be freed. Inner mongolia will be freed. A Democratic world friendly China will be born and Asia and world be more peaceful after that. India and China will become more friends as Tibet will act as buffer like as it was in historically. This is what is going to happen. Your arrogance will become your downfall.


In case you forgot, China won as a member of the allies while Republic of India didn't even exist.

Are you trying to imply India is just like UK or USA? Because they defeated Nazi Germany? LOL.... where is your colonial empire, India. Wakey-wakey... you are the slaves, not the colonialists. And you keep comparing yourself to colonialists every chance you get.



AGHORI said:


> If china and pakistan attack India then the US will jump in as it regards India as a counterweight to china and it cannot allow weakening of India as that would make china too powerful in the region and this will be detrimental to the american strategic interests.
> Now you tell me the outcome


USA cannot "jump in". USA does not have any bases that could take part directly in a border war between China and India. China and India share a land border. None of the other US allies share a land border with China.

USA can cause problems in Asian littorals with its navy. But as long as *China finishes off India within a few weeks*, China can easily defend against any US military action too. Go in, mess them up badly, and pass the wounded animal to Pakistan to deal with.


----------



## girishktyagi

> That is why China would need to roll back IAF in the *first few days of the war*. That would allow us to move quickly to liberate Kashmir and cut off the northeast from Siliguri Gorge.
> 
> 
> Once India is dissected into pieces and our cruise missiles hit critical infrastructure in north Indian cities, then Pakistan can finish the job.
> 
> China's goal is not to get stuck in stalemate or a quagmire. Go in, mess them up badly, and pass the wounded animal to Pakistan to deal with. There will be bigger fish to fry in the form of US, Japan, South Korea or Taiwan.
> 
> 
> Ha ha...... these Indians don't have many satellites to speak of. They probably don't even work.
> 
> 
> I think it would be hard to transport heavy equipment to South Asian plains. The most PLA can do probably ends in the mountainous areas. But PLAAF can hit Indian Army from above while they are defending against Pakistan Army.
> 
> 
> That is why we need to loot India of all its jewels and gold when we attack. To pay for the cost of the war. At the very least, we have to loot Delhi even if we cannot attack further south.
> 
> Pakistan Army will need to lead the way to Delhi but airborne PLAAF with IFV can give assistance too. When the war is over, Pakistan and China split the spoils of war.  Once Pakistan gets so much gold and jewels from India, it will be a very wealthy country!
> 
> 
> In case you forgot, China won as a member of the allies while Republic of India didn't even exist.
> 
> Are you trying to imply India is just like UK or USA? Because they defeated Nazi Germany? LOL.... where is your colonial empire, India. Wakey-wakey... you are the slaves, not the colonialists. And you keep comparing yourself to colonialists every chance you get.
> 
> 
> USA cannot "jump in". USA does not have any bases that could take part directly in a border war between China and India. China and India share a land border. None of the other US allies share a land border with China.
> 
> USA can cause problems in Asian littorals with its navy. But as long as *China finishes off India within a few weeks*, China can easily defend against any US military action too. Go in, mess them up badly, and pass the wounded animal to Pakistan to deal with.



Nothing more then a story from a novel..!!

Let Chinese soldiers first get some real combat mountain experience..!! Indian Army have being doing since long time and also, our gun barrels are still warm from the fired shots at Pakistani soldiers posing at terrorists in civilian dress (and later denying to claim their bodies but not forgetting to remove their names from Army website's award lists)


----------



## IND151

> by HongWu
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by girishktyagi
> Indo China war if become reality, then it will only happens after Sino-Taiwan or North-South Keora-Japan-US war.
> India's strategic plan is to make a move on Tibet if something breaks out between China and USA, Japan, South Korea or Taiwan. The whole purpose is to put China in a two-front war position.
> 
> 
> 
> That is why China would need to roll back IAF in the first few days of the war. That would allow us to move quickly to liberate Kashmir and cut off the northeast from Siliguri Gorge.
> 
> Once India is dissected into pieces and our cruise missiles hit critical infrastructure in north Indian cities, then Pakistan can finish the job.
> 
> China's goal is not to get stuck in stalemate or a quagmire. Go in, mess them up badly, and pass the wounded animal to Pakistan to deal with. There will be bigger fish to fry in the form of US, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by AerospaceEngineer
> HongHu, you forgot to point out one important aspect of warfare.
> 
> Space warfare. In the initial phase of the war. Chinese will lunch anti-satalite attack agains indian satalites, india only has a small amout of satalites and completely rely on imports. Wipe out their satalite will given the Chinese a decisive advantage, it will render india's spying, bomb guiding ability to utter zero. Then the real war begins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha ha...... these Indians don't have much to speak of. They probably don't even work.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by AerospaceEngineer
> 4. Advance into enemy zone. Our troops get into Pakistan and attack from westt side where it is flat which is great for armor and infantry battle. Gather air support, artily, tanks alone with Pakistani military attack from west side. Kashimir, Deli, and others you name it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it would be hard to transport heavy equipment to South Asian plains. The most PLA can do probably ends in the mountainous areas. But PLAAF can hit Indian Army from above while they are defending against Pakistan Army.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by AerospaceEngineer
> USA will be so happy, singing and dancing with joy. Even if Chinese win. Chinese will suffer losses, and its encomy will get hurt and that is exactly what the americans want!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is why we need to loot India of all its jewels and gold when we attack. To pay for the cost of the war. At the very least, we have to loot Delhi even if we cannot attack further South.
> 
> Pakistan Army will need to lead the way to Delhi but airborne PLAAF with IFV can give assistance too. When the war is over, Pakistan and China split the spoils of war.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by sraja
> Hey War mongering Chinese communist Nazi fanatics, Remember what happened to Nazi germany?. The attitude of today's China is similar to What nazi germany behaved in 1930s, expansion of borders with land grabbing, threatening neighbors with military power, ethnic cleansing minorities etc. Brag all your want with your russian copy weapons. But, don't forget what happened to Nazi Germany at the end. We most of Asia will unit to fight you. You have enemies everywhere. You have problems with Vietman. You have problems with Japan. You have problems with Philippines, Indonesia, Taiwan. And, with US. We will unite and fight you. At the end, Tibet will be freed. XinXinang will be freed. Inner mongolia will be freed. A Democratic world friendly China will be born and Asia and world be more peaceful after that. India and China will become more friends as Tibet will act as buffer like as it was in historically. This is what is going to happen. Your arrogance will become your downfall.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In case you forgot, China won as a member of the allies while Republic of India didn't even exist.
> 
> Are you trying to imply India is just like UK or USA? LOL.... where is your colonial empire, India. Wakey-wakey... you are the slaves, not the colonialists. And you keep comparing yourself to colonialists every chance you get.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by AGHORI
> If china and pakistan attack India then the US will jump in as it regards India as a counterweight to china and it cannot allow weakening of India as that would make china too powerful in the region and this will be detrimental to the american strategic interests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you tell me the outcome
> USA cannot "jump in". USA does not have any bases that could take part directly in a border war between China and India. China and India share a land border. None of the other US allies share a land border with China.
> 
> USA can cause problems in Asian littorals with its navy. But as long as China finishes off India within a few weeks, China can easily defend against any US military action too.
Click to expand...

 *hong Wu do you really think china and Pakistan will attack India and Indian army, air force,navy will remain silent?* we will punch back. USA has no bases in south Asia true but they will send trillions of dollars to us. *you use nukes we will too*. *we will sink your cargo ships and oil tankers which supply lakhs of tonnes of oil to china.* *this will be huge blow for your economy. * so stop dreaming ! we know your weaknesses. if china wants war with us let her. we will fight china. s Korea, Vietnam, Russia.us all will help us.* Beijing will be captured and china will be divided in several states. then peace returns! * 







* your HORCRUX Pakistan cant save you dark lord china!*


----------



## Jackdaws

If you look at the history of a city like Shanghai, it has ALWAYS fallen when attacked in modern times. China has not been able to defend it. Japanese took it over. Then the Communists took it over. If India were to attack, it would fall again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jackdaws

HongWu said:


> LOL........ you dream about USA giving you trillions of dollars..... that shows how stupid Indians are. And you dream about other countries helping you? Delusions and cowardice from Indians again.
> 
> Everybody will watch as cruise missiles destroy New Delhi in a massive inferno. But nobody will help you because China has enough military power and nuclear missiles to defend itself even while shooting cruise missiles at your capital city.
> 
> Indian Navy is insignificant because PLAAF will be attacking over the Himalayas. By the time IN start harassing random ships in the Indian Ocean hoping to find a "Chinese ship," New Delhi is already ashes.
> 
> 
> You are so retarded.



Personal attack - post reported

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WARBIRD

HongWu said:


> LOL........ you dream about USA giving you trillions of dollars..... that shows how stupid Indians are. And you dream about other countries helping you? Delusions and cowardice from Indians again.
> 
> Everybody will watch as cruise missiles destroy New Delhi in a massive inferno. But nobody will help you because China has enough military power and nuclear missiles to defend itself even while shooting cruise missiles at your capital city.
> 
> Indian Navy is insignificant because PLAAF will be attacking over the Himalayas. By the time IN start harassing random ships in the Indian Ocean hoping to find a "Chinese ship," New Delhi is already ashes.
> 
> 
> You are so retarded.



LOL i hope message will go into Ur head considering Ur IQ. The Chinese piss their pants at the sight of American's Hu Jintao's worst nightmare is a US navy Aircraft Carrier near Beijing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## doctor_who

HongWu said:


> LOL........ you dream about USA giving you trillions of dollars..... that shows how stupid Indians are. And you dream about other countries helping you? Delusions and cowardice from Indians again.
> 
> Everybody will watch as cruise missiles destroy New Delhi in a massive inferno. But nobody will help you because China has enough military power and nuclear missiles to defend itself even while shooting cruise missiles at your capital city.
> 
> Indian Navy is insignificant because PLAAF will be attacking over the Himalayas. By the time IN start harassing random ships in the Indian Ocean hoping to find a "Chinese ship," New Delhi is already ashes.
> 
> 
> You are so retarded.



you have lost it honey.

ever heard of nuclear weapons ???? we just need to nuke the china and pak . and may very well loose the war. 

but you will be one tandoori arm chair warrior.


----------



## Jackdaws

WARBIRD said:


> LOL i hope message will go into Ur head considering Ur IQ. The Chinese piss their pants at the sight of American's Hu Jintao's worst nightmare is a US navy Aircraft Carrier near Beijing.



Look at China's history - for all their talk about being a power what have they been able to do to Japan which committed the Rape of Nanking? Ban mineral exports for a few days?? They are really not capable of doing much at all.


----------



## kingdurgaking

HongWu said:


> Everybody will watch as cruise missiles destroy New Delhi in a massive inferno. But nobody will help you because China has enough military power and nuclear missiles to defend itself even while shooting cruise missiles at your capital city.



If New Delhi is under Nuclear winter.. Same will happen to Beijing.. Dont forget we too hold the same..


----------



## dccafe

pointless article...
And for the thread starter...
are you high or what?
posting such article in "India Defense"...what are hoping for?
people to agree?
Mindless act. Use you freaking brain before posting.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## AGHORI

Chinese-Dragon said:


> LOL, you do know that the USA's closest partner in the region has always been Pakistan, right?
> 
> In the 1970's war, America even sent a carrier group to intimidate India, and to show support to Pakistan.
> 
> And today, due to the WoT, the USA-Pakistan alliance has become even more important for America.
> 
> Regarding the USA and China, this is what Obama said:
> 
> 
> 
> BBC NEWS | Business | US-China ties 'to shape century'
> 
> The USA and China have the two largest economies on Earth (India is not even in the top ten largest economies) and share the largest bilateral economic relationship in the world. China+Pakistan combined are strategically/economically vital for America, unlike India. India has always aligned itself with Russia.



LOL. This is 2011 and not 1970-71. Since then a lot of things have changed. True that pakistan had and continues to have a close relationship with the US but so does India. Now the US regards India as a strategic partner. 
Agree that the US had sent a battlegroup in the 1970's war to intimidate India but you are not considering the situation that prevailed during those times. Those were the days of cold war between US and Soviet Union. India was in the soviet camp while pakistan was in the US camp. so it was natural for the US to help pakistan. US had done the same thing to china. During the 1962 Indo-china war the US had sent an aircraft carrier to help India fight against china. But by then china had declared unilateral ceasefire and chinese soldiers had retreated to pre-war conditions and war was over. so the US carrier turned back. check on wikipedia.
Regarding WOT, pakistan has no alternative but to co-operate with the US otherwise you know what can happen considering the warnings that were emanating from washington. Note that i am not disputing the close relationship that pakistan has with the US but merely stating the facts. Also consider the US drone attacks on pakistani soil which are continuing despite pakistan's strong protests. Don't you think that it is a violation of pakistan's sovereignty?
Regarding US-CHINA relations, agreed that they are very important especially from the economic perspective but do you know that the US regards china as a potential adversary and is wary of china and likewise china regards the US because of US military support to Taiwan. considering US actions in countries around china , would you take obama's words very seriously? i would not. 
In contrast US regards India as a strategic partner and a natural ally.
US wants to contain china and regards India as a counterweight to china. To this end it is arming India with sophisticated weapons and is providing India with high technology. India's importance to the US can be gauged from the fact that US made changes in American laws to facilitate the Indo-US nuclear deal and went out of its way to support India at the NSG despite the fact that India is not a signatory of the NPT or the CTBT. Also take a look at the benefits India received from obama's visit. Take note of the mega deals signed by US and India. Also see [url=http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/vietnam/101029/hillary-clinton-vietnam#]Hillary Clinton | Vietnam | Human Rights[/url] read that article carefully.This will show you America's real intentions concerning china.
The fact is that INDIA has become a very important Global player. so do not underestimate India and undermine US-INDIA relations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

kingdurgaking said:


> If New Delhi is under Nuclear winter.. Same will happen to Beijing.. Dont forget we too hold the same..



Not necessarily true. If its Pakistan that attacked New Delhi, than its a regional issue that both US, Russia and China will try to resolve peacefully.

If its China that attcked New Delhi with nukes. Than Russia or the US will decimate Beijing. We are talking about full scale WWIII here. India's weapons are not reliable enough to hit Beijing as of now. Maybe in 3-5 years but its not ready yet.


----------



## girishktyagi

faithfulguy said:


> Not necessarily true. If its Pakistan that attacked New Delhi, than its a regional issue that both US, Russia and China will try to resolve peacefully.
> 
> If its China that attcked New Delhi with nukes. Than Russia or the US will decimate Beijing. We are talking about full scale WWIII here. India's weapons are not reliable enough to hit Beijing as of now. Maybe in 3-5 years but its not ready yet.



India's Weapons not reliable?? What is the source of this knowledge???

If you meant to say they are unproven? then let me tell you its the same case with Chinese weapons as well.

Also, India's weapons programs is most transparent. You can see all the failures and successes transparently. However its not the same with Chinese weapon development. They never convey their failures but only successes. Reading more of Chinese weapon successful testing doesn't make Indian weapon inferior.

By the way, India has access to weapons of all the modern weapon developing countries in this world beat US/Russian/EU apart from its indigenous effort. India incorporate best of all technologies into its products but that is not the case with China.

Anyhow the point of considering Chinese (no battle tested) weapons superior where as India's inferior does hold any valid ground.

India has sufficient deterrent to hold China for not doing any mischief.


----------



## faithfulguy

girishktyagi said:


> India's Weapons not reliable?? What is the source of this knowledge???
> 
> If you meant to say they are unproven? then let me tell you its the same case with Chinese weapons as well.
> 
> Also, India's weapons programs is most transparent. You can see all the failures and successes transparently. However its not the same with Chinese weapon development. They never convey their failures but only successes. Reading more of Chinese weapon successful testing doesn't make Indian weapon inferior.
> 
> By the way, India has access to weapons of all the modern weapon developing countries in this world beat US/Russian/EU apart from its indigenous effort. India incorporate best of all technologies into its products but that is not the case with China.
> 
> Anyhow the point of considering Chinese (no battle tested) weapons superior where as India's inferior does hold any valid ground.
> 
> India has sufficient deterrent to hold China for not doing any mischief.



What I said is that its not ready. Not unproven or inferior. Read my post again.


----------



## ajay

India dont need to hit Beijing just the 3 gorges dam will do


----------



## ZhengHe

Jackdaws said:


> Look at China's history - for all their talk about being a power what have they been able to do to Japan which committed the Rape of Nanking? Ban mineral exports for a few days?? They are really not capable of doing much at all.



1. Japan was the only industrialize, modernized country in Asia at the time, meaning they had advanced tanks, airplanes, machine guns. but China did have some modern equip given by allies, but nothing significant. 

Same as how the Europeans invaded the Americas and Africa and all of India so easily. 

2. China was in the middle of a civil war = Huge advantage for Japan

Thinking Japan can repeat what it did in WW2 is complete and utter nonsense.


----------



## girishktyagi

faithfulguy said:


> What I said is that its not ready. Not unproven or inferior. Read my post again.



When you say "Not ready" you should have spoken about a particular weapon/system. But your words reflected as if all the weapons in India's inventory are "not ready" and thus trying to prove that India is not combat ready yet with Beijing.

India (just like any other country) depends on its combat requirements only on weapons which are "ready" and not the one which underdevelopment or testing.

And by the way if India's weapons are "Not ready" yet then Chinese are fool if they are waiting "India's weapons" to be ready before they decide attacking India. Well Chinese are intelligent enough as they are aware of India's potential in case of any war.


----------



## girishktyagi

ajay said:


> India dont need to hit Beijing just the 3 gorges dam will do



No, the Three Gorge is reserved for small country Taiwan . 

India has many other options to select in China


----------



## Jackdaws

ZhengHe said:


> 1. Japan was the only industrialize, modernized country in Asia at the time, meaning they had advanced tanks, airplanes, machine guns. but China did have some modern equip given by allies, but nothing significant.
> 
> Same as how the Europeans invaded the Americas and Africa and all of India so easily.
> 
> 2. China was in the middle of a civil war = Huge advantage for Japan
> 
> Thinking Japan can repeat what it did in WW2 is complete and utter nonsense.



When did I say that Japan will repeat what it did in WW2 in China? Of course it can't. I am merely pointing out that unlike the Israelis and some other countries which have been able to make Germany repeatedly apologize and feel sorry for the excesses in WW2, there have been no such major apologies or reparations for Japan's excesses in China and China for all its talk about power still seems to let Japan walk all over it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## girishktyagi

faithfulguy said:


> The terrorist would not attack China. If China would roll a tank over protestors and student, imaging what they would do to terrorists...



Terrorist and poor students have a difference. Those poor Chinese students where brave but thats not the case with Pakistani terrorists.

Pakistan terrorists are cowards who blow them self first and commit suicide while killing other innocent people. (they say, they are enemy of West, but in reality, are only killing their own people just for power)

My recommendation to break your so closed "so called, all weather friendship" with Pakistan was to avoid a situation when an old friend crush the other friend under their tank.


But then I am just wondering when China can kill its own people under tanks then how does it matter for them to kill their Pakistani friends under their tanks..!!

I think you are right brother..!! u win.


----------



## AGHORI

faithfulguy said:


> Not necessarily true. If its Pakistan that attacked New Delhi, than its a regional issue that both US, Russia and China will try to resolve peacefully.
> 
> If its China that attcked New Delhi with nukes. Than Russia or the US will decimate Beijing. We are talking about full scale WWIII here. India's weapons are not reliable enough to hit Beijing as of now. Maybe in 3-5 years but its not ready yet.



Hi there, I read your post but would like to mention that i do not agree with the last part. Indian military sets high standards for weapons in terms of quality and technology which should be met if a weapon system is to be inducted. Also note that in case of a war there are several important targets apart from the capital city of that country.
Here are facts about some of India's ready and reliable weapons for a counter military strike on china incase a war breaks out:
Agni-2 missile, having a range of 2000-2500 kms, is capable of striking the western, southern and central parts of china. It has been already been inducted.
Agni-3, having a range of 3000-5500 kms, can reach most major chinese cities including BEIJING and SHANGHAI. Its cep lies in the range of 40m which makes it the most accurate missile in the world in its range class. It is being inducted.
Brahmos cruise missile, having a range 290 kms and very high accuracy, can be used to destroy military infrastructure inside chinese territory upto 290 kms.
It can be used to create a logistical nightmare for the enemy. There is no defence against this missile owing to its supersonic speed.
Anti-ship and LACM versions already inducted. Air launched version pending. New versions with advanced features being tested.
Akash SAMs, having a range of 25-30 kms, is meant for air defence. 
It has thrust for its entire flight range making it highly accurate.
SU-30 MKI, India's famed Russian origin fighter and probably the most superior jet in Asia, has a range of 3000 kms and with an option to increase it to 8000 kms with in-flight air refuelling, can be used for strikes inside china. All the above mentioned weapons/fighter jet are READY AND VERY RELIABLE. This info is about weapons which i consider of prime importance for credible deterrence against china.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tigershark

China doesn't have to do anything. Just watch while Indians starve themselves.


----------



## majesticpankaj

Tigershark said:


> China doesn't have to do anything. Just watch while Indians starve themselves.


or watch the second fastest growing country in the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

girishktyagi said:


> No, the Three Gorge is reserved for small country Taiwan .
> 
> India has many other options to select in China



you right, India cant even match a "small" "country" like Taiwan who them selves cant due to all air force units being destroy by missiles before they can even take off.

what other "option" does india have? nukes? hmmm thats about it for war options. good job now lets watch ws-2s rain down on new Delphi


----------



## girishktyagi

Tigershark said:


> China doesn't have to do anything. Just watch while Indians starve themselves.



Your lack of knowledge about India and its underestimation is enough for us to defeat you in long run..

By the way, I dont blame you as you are governed by Communit reigem whose propaganda is to keep the Chinese in "day dreaming mode" about their progress and convinsing them that "They are the best, and rest are fool"

Go and get your independence from your communist rulers first then talk high.

And by the way, poverty in India is reducing fast as we are growing.

And who told you and there is no poverty in China? may be you never go out of your coastal areas to your hinterlands? 

oooh I guess you are not allowed to speak about Chinese poverty on the internet??? 

Chinese are only getting richer every passing day but lives under the shoe of communist rulers. 

Where as Indians are already independent and growing richer every day.

Indians can kick their elected rulers as and when required where as Communist officials can kick fellow Chinese as and when required.

Can you make out the difference? its not a rocket science.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## girishktyagi

applesauce said:


> you right, India cant even match a "small" "country" like Taiwan who them selves cant due to all air force units being destroy by missiles before they can even take off.
> 
> what other "option" does india have? nukes? hmmm thats about it for war options. good job now lets watch ws-2s rain down on new Delphi



When you say, India cannot match with Taiwan, it almost confirms how poor knowledge you have about defense capabilities of (India, Taiwan or even China). I would prefer not teach you on this matter as you can read whole lots of documentation on this on this forum itself.

By the way, why don't you say that Chinese have no guts to take back Taiwan ?? (apart from boosting about themselves?) what are you waiting for? 
Fact is Taiwan even being small can inflect collateral damage to China. They do have small inventory but of superior US weapons which have been providing sufficient deterrent to PLA attacks as of date.

As far as India is concern? we have everything save our motherland.


----------



## faithfulguy

girishktyagi said:


> When you say, India cannot match with Taiwan, it almost confirms how poor knowledge you have about defense capabilities of (India, Taiwan or even China). I would prefer not teach you on this matter as you can read whole lots of documentation on this on this forum itself.
> 
> By the way, why don't you say that Chinese have no guts to take back Taiwan ?? (apart from boosting about themselves?) what are you waiting for?
> Fact is Taiwan even being small can inflect collateral damage to China. They do have small inventory but of superior US weapons which have been providing sufficient deterrent to PLA attacks as of date.
> 
> As far as India is concern? we have everything save our motherland.



The Taiwanese gov is the Republic of China. Taiwanese government claims that its the legitimate government of the whole China. In the past, it plan to recover the whole China. The current administration does not have that plan. However, it still regard itself as the legitimate government of the whole China. It has to for its own survival.


----------



## girishktyagi

faithfulguy said:


> The Taiwanese gov is the Republic of China. Taiwanese government claims that its the legitimate government of the whole China. In the past, it plan to recover the whole China. The current administration does not have that plan. However, it still regard itself as the legitimate government of the whole China. It has to for its own survival.



I guess you are not the government policy planner in Taiwan 

Being friendly or so called "pro China" doesnt means you have lay down your basic agenda. Taiwan doesn't want to be part of China under communist and that their core policy. 
By the way, Taiwanese are constinue busy in buying US weapon even after your so called claim of "Pro China Government" ? why? simply because everyone want peace with China for the sake of business and world peace but unfortunately, Chinese translate it as if the other country either is afraid of China or have surrender their ideology.

Current Japanese government was also considered "Pro China" when it came to power. Now see the kind of trouble they had with China recently. Also they have declared the highest level of preparation for its defense forces.

Some countire are either afraid of China, some are specitical of Chinese move, some are getting irritated with its economic blackmailing and some are eagerly forming groups to contain China. 

*But two puppets, i.e Pakistan and North Korea are "all weather friend" of China, the superpower. *
*
"If you want to understand your kid well, its best to meet his friends"*

*And Chinese have real good friends *

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## kingdurgaking

applesauce said:


> you right, India cant even match a "small" "country" like Taiwan who them selves cant due to all air force units being destroy by missiles before they can even take off.
> 
> what other "option" does india have? nukes? hmmm thats about it for war options. good job now lets watch ws-2s rain down on new Delphi



what a logic... India doesnt have only 2-3 bases to counter ... MKI from Andaman can do sufficient damage tooo.... The first missile from your end is enough for several shaurya's to fly from silos... If more escalation like DF fly then Agni's will also fly...


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

girishktyagi said:


> *And Chinese have real good friends *



How many friends does India have in its neighbourhood? Pakistan, China, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh? 

India's best friend was the USSR, who collapsed in 1991.


----------



## GareebNawaz

^^ i guess China can be considered a friend of India due to increasing economic and trade cooperation. For example China is providing the rolling stock for the Mumbai Metro. India is buying more and more Chinese goods. In return Indian companies like Infosyis provide IT services to China. The politcal approach of both countries toward each other is however very, very wrong. Indians really dont like the current gov't, and i bet many Chinese dislike parts of their gov't as well. I mean if aren't Strtegic Partners just yet due to Amerikans pulling thier strings on India we can't cooperate strategically. I mean India is not trying to war with China buy buying america's weapons, but we have to upgrade and modernise ourselves and use that techonolgy to indegnise our forces like China. We should start by cooperating ecnomically, and then start to be strategical partenrs, and then become great friends. I just don no see why Most indidans hate or dislike Chinese. I dont find anything wrong with you guys and i hope you dont find anything wrong with us either. We should start being friends and not bown down to the West. The west is not really going to help us in the long term and it is not in their interest to see us become strategic partners so they will continue harrasing our path towards tolerance and partnership. India and China should really start focusing postively on each other and should strive to prosper and help each other so we can make the west to bow down to us. Pakistan is welcome to join and mutual freindship with India as again it is in our best interest. Hope we can be friends and forget all our differnces because when we start looking at ourselves we find more similarties between ourselves than differnces.


----------



## humanfirst

moral of the thread-an idiot can start an idiotic thread and drag even the sane indian and chinese members down to his level...So where are we now?finished nuking delhi or just watching india starving to death..?or just hit three gorges dam?
what next?May be we can avert a full scale war by organising a mano-e-mano fight between hu jintao(or wen,it is the choice of china) and manmohan singh..
(that sounds more realistic than most of the stupid plans in this thread)


----------



## DelhiDareDevil

Over 500 messages so far, but what is the probability of all this talk actually happening? 

Exactly, I think India sudden rise in last 2-3 years, especially in military, will make sure China dont attack India. India also has a growing relationship with strong military nation as well recently which can act as a deterrance.

India wont attack China.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

humanfirst said:


> moral of the thread-an idiot can start an idiotic thread and drag even the sane indian and chinese members down to his level...So where are we now?finished nuking delhi or just watching india starving to death..?or just hit three gorges dam?
> what next?May be we can avert a full scale war by organising a mano-e-mano fight between hu jintao(or wen,it is the choice of china) and manmohan singh..
> (that sounds more realistic than most of the stupid plans in this thread)



Well said; the way this thread has stretched on for so long is not funny.

And for the great worthies who have so single-mindedly contributed to it , a "sweeet" treat.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...6-nuclear-candy-really-toxic.html#post1414625


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

DelhiDareDevil said:


> *India wont attack China.*



If that is true, then there is nothing to worry about.

And I don't care if India increases its military spending, that is none of my business.


----------



## DelhiDareDevil

Chinese-Dragon said:


> If that is true, then there is nothing to worry about.
> 
> And I don't care if India increases its military spending, that is none of my business.



I guess most Indians feel it will be China who attack first, as they are provoking India (more recently, and yes I know about Tibet issue, hence I said more recently) by giving seperate visas to Indians and supporting Pakistan against India.

As for now, India main enemy is inflation (oh the irony after reading this thread haha)


----------



## girishktyagi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> How many friends does India have in its neighbourhood? Pakistan, China, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh?
> 
> India's best friend was the USSR, who collapsed in 1991.



Every one in our neighborhood is our friend except Pakistan.

1. We have huge growing trade with China.

2. India is helping Bangladesh in development. Last year India gave 2 billion $ of credit to Bangladesh. Apart from this, India is also developing a port in Bangladesh. Also bangladesh goverment is helping India arresting the leader of incergency group likes Bodo and others. (Read more on this)

3. India has given credits to Sri lanka government and also doing massive humanitarian programs. Indian Navy is training Srilankan Navy. (Sri-lankan president last years said that Chinese will come and go where as we have to live with India forever) read more.

4. India's relationship with Afghanistan, Bhutan are in best shape.

5. Relationship with Myanmar are improving raplidly with economic terms as well military corporations. Infact Myanmaris are more worried about Chinese influence if their dependency is increasing on Chinese investments. India is already developing a port in Myanmar apart from other investments.

6. Currently Nepal is a worry for India as it is sleping into Chinese net due to Chinese support to Maoist. But will not be possible as they are more and more dependent on India curtually and economically. Also not to forget that every country acknowledge that dependency on China only will make them slave of Communit blackmailing and military muscling where as that is not the same with open, democratic and strong nation India.


All small nations are only trying to get maximum from India and China as they know that getting into the party of anyone will only harm their interest and balancing between both power will bring benefits to them. And I believe, its the right way for them.

Small countries are more incliend towards China only because of their investments. However it is far more impossible that they will let their own use by Chinese against India.


----------



## AGHORI

HongWu said:


> USA cannot "jump in". USA does not have any bases that could take part directly in a border war between China and India. China and India share a land border. None of the other US allies share a land border with China.
> 
> USA can cause problems in Asian littorals with its navy. But as long as *China finishes off India within a few weeks*, China can easily defend against any US military action too. Go in, mess them up badly, and pass the wounded animal to Pakistan to deal with.




I love to read your posts as they are very entertaining. you come up with nice comedy. Thank you very much for entertaining me here on defence.pk. Anyways, on a serious note are you aware of US military capabilities? i doubt so. you are ignoring the fact that US has aircraft carriers. Do you know that the US had dispatched an aircraft carrier to India during the 1962 Sino-Indian war? well it can do the same again. find out about the capabilities of US carriers incase you don't know.
Now for the question of US overseas bases, The US military bases in south-east/ east Asia are in the philippines, japan, south korea, singapore which can be used to strike the northern and eastern parts of china among others. It has a strong base in Diego Garcia.List of United States military bases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
United States military deployments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It also has bases in the middle-east which are being used for WOT in afghanistan and pakistan. It has military bases in afghanistan. 
This i why i said that in case of a Sino-Indian war, the "US WILL JUMP IN" and will use these bases. And what makes you think that India will not offer its military facilities and bases to the US?
It is not necessary for the US to have allies who share a land border with china as 21st century war includes aerial and naval warfare apart from land warfare. And since India shares a border with china, US troops can be transported to these areas either through land or through air once they reach India.
You think the US will cause problems in Asian littorals with its navy, i think it will cause a havoc.
And i don't think the US will wait for few weeks for china to finish off India and then step in. It is keeping a watch on china at this moment as well and will dispatch its military immediately should the need arise in accordance with their strategic policy.
As for your statement that china will finish off India within weeks, it seems to me that you are still living in 1962, and are unaware of India's current military capabilities and near future acquisitions. 
India can do significant damage to china in retaliation as it has the weapons required to do so.
contrary to your statement that china can easily defend against US military action, i would say "not so easily because of US technological edge". Eg. US F-22 RAPTORS are already in service while chinese 5th generation fighter prototype is in testing phase and will take a few years to be inducted.
India has contigency plans incase of a two-front war if it happens. so forget that the last part of your post will ever manifest into reality. Also US will not allow china to weaken India militarily or economically as it against their strategic interests.
In light of the above mentioned facts, i conclude that THE US CAN AND WILL JUMP IN IF IT IS NECESSARY.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

AGHORI said:


> In light of the above mentioned facts, i conclude that THE US CAN AND WILL JUMP IN IF IT IS NECESSARY.



The USA will not jump in. 

Do you have any defence treaty with the Americans that guarantees this? I didn't think so.

Like I said, America's closest ally in the region is Pakistan, and their most important economic partner in the region is China. In a war involving China/Pakistan vs. India, the US will stay neutral, or may even help Pakistan like it did before against India.

Interesting to know that you think you need outside help though.


----------



## AGHORI

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The USA will not jump in.
> 
> Do you have any defence treaty with the Americans that guarantees this? I didn't think so.
> 
> Like I said, America's closest ally in the region is Pakistan, and their most important economic partner in the region is China. In a war involving China/Pakistan vs. India, the US will stay neutral, or may even help Pakistan like it did before against India.
> 
> Interesting to know that you think you need outside help though.



yes the us will jump in IF NECESSARY . and you will have to read my post properly to understand why. you can go into the denial mode but that will be like living in a fool's paradise. whatever i have stated is in line with the realities which i have known from the internet and TV. It is not wishful thinking as you have done. 
It seems to me that you are not aware of American strategic interests concerning India and Asia. find out about that first. Do you think we had a defence treaty with the US in 1962 when the US president said that "we will defend India as we would defend any ally " and then had sent an aircraft carrier? i am not aware of such a treaty. It is not always necessary to have a defence treaty with a nation to defend it, if it is in your strategic interest to defend it. A defence treaty between two nations is required when one nation is incapable of defending its territory and both nations agree to have such a treaty. India does not have such a treaty with the US because it does not need such a treaty. we are capable of defending ourselves. US regards India as its strategic partner, so do you understand its implications? it means that INCASE IT IS NECESSARY THEN THE US WILL JUMP IN as India is very important for the US. By stating this i am referring to a situation where in India suffers serious losses, although that is unlikely as we are stronger now and have the strength to defend against china.

You said that "Like I said, America's closest ally in the region is Pakistan, and their most important economic partner in the region is China. In a war involving China/Pakistan vs. India, the US will stay neutral, or may even help Pakistan like it did before against India"
I have already replied to this in my previous post to you wherein i have mentioned certain realities which counter your belief.
I suppose that you have not read that reply. Do read it if you have time. Also tell me why is the US supplying weapons to Taiwan and has vowed to defend taiwan incase of an armed invasion by china? why the US didn't care for consequent chinese protests if US-china relations are so very important?. Face it, the us doesn't always practice what it preaches. It does whatever is in its interest. And containing china is in US interests.so it would definately help India if India needs it.
As for your statement that "Interesting to know that you think you need outside help though" i would say read my post properly and try to understand its intended meaning. INDIA HAS THE CAPABILITY TO DEFEND ITSELF AND IS STRONG ENOUGH TO DO SO, BUT INCASE THE SITUATION WARRANTS US HELP, THEN WE CAN ACCEPT THAT HELP. I hope the meaning of my statements are clear to you now. Anyways, it is upto you to decide whether you want to understand the intended meaning or the meaning which you want to understand and believe in.
And my closing point is that if china can team up with pakistan to fight India as stated by HONGWU , then India can team up with the US to defend itself.


----------



## kingdurgaking

AGHORI said:


> You said that "Like I said, America's closest ally in the region is Pakistan, and their most important economic partner in the region is China. In a war involving China/Pakistan vs. India, the US will stay neutral, or may even help Pakistan like it did before against India"
> I have already replied to this in my previous post to you wherein i have mentioned certain realities which counter your belief.
> I suppose that you have not read that reply. Do read it if you have time.



I would like to add to your knowlege.. if you agree or not.. We have already forecasted or we are already aware of a two front war.. where we will be fighting on all the four borders.. 
We dont need US or Russia to help us.. we are equipping our self or inother words we are modernizing our own army/navy/Airforce with $100 billion in this decade.. 
MoD has already laid down the steps...
Slowly we will have new platforms/weapons in this decade sufficient enough to deter both the countries.. 

If you are so worried just point out where we lack sufficiently?? 

I will list some of the open projects.. while we are having lot of secrets projects in close tie up with Israel and Russia...

1)MTA --> To replace An's
2)multi layer Missile defence (ABM)
3)Both short and long range missiles in plenty including submarine and silo launches
4)Aero stats
5)MRLS
6)AWACS
7)FGFA
8)AirCraft Carriers
9)Stealth Warship/Destroyers
10)New missile boats
11)New submarines
12)Lot of Tanks
13)Mountain warfare training
14)Hell lot of bombs acquired from Both US and Russia
15)New M777 guns + we are bound to get new guns to replace bofors on large quantity...
16)Network centric capability 

over and above we have Atom bombs.... in case things go ugly..

so why worried about getting help from US and Russia?? when we are building sufficient deterring capability...


----------



## AGHORI

kingdurgaking said:


> I would like to add to your knowlege.. if you agree or not.. We have already forecasted or we are already aware of a two front war.. where we will be fighting on all the four borders..
> We dont need US or Russia to help us.. we are equipping our self or inother words we are modernizing our own army/navy/Airforce with $100 billion in this decade..
> MoD has already laid down the steps...
> Slowly we will have new platforms/weapons in this decade sufficient enough to deter both the countries..
> 
> If you are so worried just point out where we lack sufficiently??
> 
> I will list some of the open projects.. while we are having lot of secrets projects in close tie up with Israel and Russia...
> 
> 1)MTA --> To replace An's
> 2)multi layer Missile defence (ABM)
> 3)Both short and long range missiles in plenty including submarine and silo launches
> 4)Aero stats
> 5)MRLS
> 6)AWACS
> 7)FGFA
> 8)AirCraft Carriers
> 9)Stealth Warship/Destroyers
> 10)New missile boats
> 11)New submarines
> 12)Lot of Tanks
> 13)Mountain warfare training
> 14)Hell lot of bombs acquired from Both US and Russia
> 15)New M777 guns + we are bound to get new guns to replace bofors on large quantity...
> 16)Network centric capability
> 
> over and above we have Atom bombs.... in case things go ugly..
> 
> so why worried about getting help from US and Russia?? when we are building sufficient deterring capability...



Thank you for the information. I already know about those deals as well as the fact that we may have to fight on all four borders. 
I am not saying that we will definately need help from US or Russia as i know that we are strong enough to defend our country. what i am saying is that incase the need arises then the US would be willing to help as it is in their interest to do so and a US intervention would make china think twice before continuing the war . Now this does not mean that we are weak or we have a significant lack that we have to depend on US and/or Russia. I have stated in my previous posts that we are capable of defending ourselves. whatever i have stated in my previous posts about US help is just for the sake of argument as some members here like to spread lies about India that no country will take India's side or help India in case of a war and India does not have any friends etc etc. These members also deny/undermine India's achievements and its position in the world. As an Indian how can i remain silent when such lies are spread about my country? so i was just countering their statements. That's it. so please do not misunderstand me. I have told chinese dragon to understand the intended meaning of my post, since he has misunderstood my post to conclude that we would need US help in case of a war with china and can't do without it which is not the true meaning of my post. By the way i know about those deals Infact my father was told by a navy officer that some secret projects are going on which will increase India's might immensely. but they are kept under the wraps for the fear of causing alarm. some of those things which you mentioned are yet to come. I know they will come in a short time.


----------



## kingdurgaking

AGHORI said:


> As an Indian how can i remain silent when such lies are spread about my country? so i was just countering their statements.



There are so many lies out there ... and you cant counter them.... 
For a matter of fact ... Lot of people here are under false flag.... so Chinese doesnt necessarily mean he is a Chinese .... You can understand from there conversation.. 
We India have a huge army and we are building our capabilities ... If provoked we will not take human help but material help... Never ever India took human help... For material help we will get support from Russia .. may be from US... And you also understand that Indo-sino war wont be long one so we can definitely hold them.. because this war will hurt many economies.. If prolonged we can call for 3rd world war and subsequently dooms day is marked on the calendar....


----------



## AGHORI

kingdurgaking said:


> There are so many lies out there ... and you cant counter them....
> For a matter of fact ... Lot of people here are under false flag.... so Chinese doesnt necessarily mean he is a Chinese .... You can understand from there conversation..
> We India have a huge army and we are building our capabilities ... If provoked we will not take human help but material help... Never ever India took human help... For material help we will get support from Russia .. may be from US... And you also understand that Indo-sino war wont be long one so we can definitely hold them.. because this war will hurt many economies.. If prolonged we can call for 3rd world war and subsequently dooms day is marked on the calendar....


True, but it is necessary to counter some and that is what i am doing. As for what you have stated, i know all that and i do agree with you. I know that we don't need to take human help, but only material help because of our huge army and i also know about the possible duration and consequences of such a war. But as i said, i was only countering/ replying. I have clearly mentioned what i meant in those posts. if they read properly then they would not misunderstand.


----------



## HongWu

AGHORI said:


> And what makes you think that India will not offer its military facilities and bases to the US?


India will not offer them to the US unless it feels really threatened because India does not want to be a colonized country any more. It's a matter of pride for the Indians.

*But right now, India does not feel threatened. Instead, India feels powerful enough it contemplates an adventure to quickly strike China in Tibet and then turn around to completely defeat Pakistan.* This is China's opportunity to make a counterstrike, recapture southern Tibet and liberate Kashmir for Pakistan.



AGHORI said:


> contrary to your statement that china can easily defend against US military action, i would say "not so easily because of US technological edge". Eg. US F-22 RAPTORS are already in service while chinese 5th generation fighter prototype is in testing phase and will take a few years to be inducted.


China is very confident of its ability to defend Chinese airspace and coast cities against any USA air or naval attack. China has anti-stealth radars, AWACS, air defense destroyers, anti-satellite missiles and ballistic missile defenses. *The J-20, of course, is coming soon too! Probably will be deployed in Tibet first.*

While defending against USA attacks in Western Pacific, China can quickly defeat Indian Army in Kashmir and northeast India. Then soften up Indian defenses while Pakistan Army attacks from Rawalpindi toward New Delhi.



AGHORI said:


> India has contigency plans incase of a two-front war if it happens. so forget that the last part of your post will ever manifest into reality. Also US will not allow china to weaken India militarily or economically as it against their strategic interests.
> 
> In light of the above mentioned facts, i conclude that THE US CAN AND WILL JUMP IN IF IT IS NECESSARY.


China is powerful enough to do another 1962. USA will support India as much as it can, but India might still be too weak to last more than a few weeks, just like 1962!

50 years ago, the consequences of defeat for India was not very serious because China did not have logistical ability to move heavy equipment into southern Tibet and IOK. Now China has motorable roads right up to the LAC in both sectors!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GareebNawaz

Hongwu you are overconfident that china is able to defeat India. Your country only has the capability to attack India, not the ability to defeat India. And for a few border issues china is not likely to go on a full scale war with India. I am not saying china cant win but you are overestimating your ability and underestimating ours.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GareebNawaz

And don't think your ally Pakistan will attack india!!! Let your ally defeat Taliban first. I am not doubting pakistan's strength but I am doubting it's willingness to actually go on a full scale war with India. They have too many internal problems plus their economy Is in no shape to handle the expenses of war. Many countrys will say they will attack India, but seriously they won't. Just because you guys have nukes that doesn't mean you will overpower India. Hongwu your rants are nothing but fantasies and your country seeks friendship with India more than destroy it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ArjunaTheWarrior

HongWu said:


> India will not offer them to the US unless it feels really threatened because India does not want to be a colonized country any more. It's a matter of pride for the Indians.
> 
> *But right now, India does not feel threatened. Instead, India feels powerful enough it contemplates an adventure to quickly strike China in Tibet and then turn around to completely defeat Pakistan.* This is China's opportunity to make a counterstrike, recapture southern Tibet and liberate Kashmir for Pakistan.
> 
> actually PRC is feeling like that right now...
> 
> 
> *China is very confident of its ability to defend Chinese airspace and coast cities against any USA air or naval attack. China has anti-stealth radars, AWACS, air defense destroyers, anti-satellite missiles and ballistic missile defenses. The J-20, of course, is coming soon too! Probably will be deployed in Tibet first.*
> 
> 
> US can totally annihilate PLAAF + PLNAF in matter of days... thr is no way Chinese can think that they can gain even air superiority even against IAF... J-20 in tibet will be deployed when india will have PAK FA with western avionics seating in no. very near to tibetan border ...
> 
> *While defending against USA attacks in Western Pacific, China can quickly defeat Indian Army in Kashmir and northeast India. Then soften up Indian defenses while Pakistan Army attacks from Rawalpindi toward New Delhi.*
> 
> haha .... so think you can defeat 2nd largest army which is for year building defences in these areas ... and defend against USA ...
> 
> 
> China is powerful enough to do another 1962. USA will support India as much as it can, but India might still be too weak to last more than a few weeks, just like 1962!
> 
> haha ... India too weak ...
> 
> 50 years ago, the consequences of defeat for India was not very serious because China did not have logistical ability to move heavy equipment into southern Tibet and IOK. Now China has motorable roads right up to the LAC in both sectors!



how these road will be after waves of cruise missiles like brahmos will make 50 meter holes after every 50 meter back to 50 no 500 years back... heavy equipment ... haha in Himalayas... PLA with small arms was able to sneak into India in 1962 when thr was no IA present in these areas ... it will annihilation for offender now.. defender will win...


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

GareebNawaz said:


> Hongwu you are overconfident that china is able to defeat India. Your country only has the capability to attack India, not the ability to defeat India. And for a few border issues china is not likely to go on a full scale war with India. I am not saying china cant win but you are overestimating your ability and underestimating ours.





He is confident because.

1. China kicked india's a@@ in 1962 even thought both USSR and USA back india. Remember indian army was equibed with US arms such as M-16. But China kicked india's butt so hard that even after 50 years india never dare to attack Tibet.

2. india is weak in terms of building arms. In 1982 InAF already has Mirage-2000 at the time it was one of the best on par with F-16. PLAF however are flying J-7 which is far inferior than Mirage-200. Yet after 30 years of india's "modernization" india can not build lca on its own and need russian radar, American engine, Russian missile(R-77) and others to arm lca. The ajunk tank is also a failure otherwise india will not buy so many T-90 from russia.

3. India's airforce is not that good. SU-30MKI can be easily countered by J-10A/B, J-11B, and in the future will get owned by J-20. Mig-29 can be even handled by JF-17. China also got 124 SU-30MKK/MKK2 plus lots more J-7, J-8.

4. China has much more advanced missiles and larger air defence systems than india.

5. In 1962 China Kicked india's butt on its own. Now with Pakistan on China's side do you still think india has a chance? China attack from North, and East while Pakistan attack from the West! In 1962 india got USSR and USA support, today Russia will clearly not send anything if China and india goes to war. ALso USA will not join because USA has huge trade with CHina, not to mention China is USA's largest debt holder. What does india have when it comes to USA? India can not offer USA anything. This is why US currently "support" india so that when india and China goes to war, USA will benifit from this. China once again kick india's butt but suffer losses and USA will be happy, dancing and singing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

HongWu said:


> India will not offer them to the US unless it feels really threatened because India does not want to be a colonized country any more. It's a matter of pride for the Indians.
> 
> *But right now, India does not feel threatened. Instead, India feels powerful enough it contemplates an adventure to quickly strike China in Tibet and then turn around to completely defeat Pakistan.* This is China's opportunity to make a counterstrike, recapture southern Tibet and liberate Kashmir for Pakistan.
> 
> 
> China is very confident of its ability to defend Chinese airspace and coast cities against any USA air or naval attack. China has anti-stealth radars, AWACS, air defense destroyers, anti-satellite missiles and ballistic missile defenses. *The J-20, of course, is coming soon too! Probably will be deployed in Tibet first.*
> 
> While defending against USA attacks in Western Pacific, China can quickly defeat Indian Army in Kashmir and northeast India. Then soften up Indian defenses while Pakistan Army attacks from Rawalpindi toward New Delhi.
> 
> 
> China is powerful enough to do another 1962. USA will support India as much as it can, but India might still be too weak to last more than a few weeks, just like 1962!
> 
> 50 years ago, the consequences of defeat for India was not very serious because China did not have logistical ability to move heavy equipment into southern Tibet and IOK. Now China has motorable roads right up to the LAC in both sectors!





Dude stop arguing with them. They will not listen. *Also you just got un banned, these indians are trying hard to pi$$ you off again so you will be banned again.!!!!!!!!!*
BTW, USA will *NOT *support india. USA will only provide verbal support which is useless!


----------



## DesiGuy

this thread still going.....?


----------



## desimorty

> India is the right choice because Japan / S Korea are smart enough to be afraid of a hot conflict with China. Taiwan already has a pro-China government and Philippines already told USA not to step into South China Sea dispute.
> 
> India is the one country too stupid to be afraid of China until war actually starts. It's basically used as a suicide bomber by USA.
> 
> It is very like if there is hot conflict in East Asia that India will open up a second front.


Because India is stupid? are you retarded?
The Japanese can do more damage to China than India could. 
Put ur dumbass nationalism aside and use ur small brain to comperhend what u just said. With people like u in China no wondar the CCP don't have any obstacles.


> China has build highways right up to the LAC. It can move SPA to support a deep thrust by infantry. Motuo county tunnel has been completed so there is highway connection all the way to "Arunachal Pradesh."


India has roads too. Closer to the border to Tibet than China does. And the Indians didn't have to spend to much effort to build these paved/dirt roads either. What does that tell u?


> J-11B is China's fully indigenous flanker which is far superior to old J-11 license built Russian flanker. They are already deployed en mass to new airfields in Tibet.
> 
> China has been mass producing its own advanced turbofan since 2009. J-11B uses FWS10. See this photo
> 
> http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-11B_WS-10a.jpg
> 
> Indigenous Chinese radar on J-11B is comparable to BARS. The old J-11 and MKK radars are crap. J-11B cockpit is a generation ahead of MKI. See this photo


THe J-11B or a or c is still a liecienced COPY it is still Russian and likily still uses Russian parts. The Su-30 MKI is also produced by HAL and the HAL produced version is 5% smaller than the Russian frames. 
Also, if u want to compare them, why don't u give some actuall stats like numbers instead of, thats what the PLA fanboys said. 
The Su-30MKI boasts Isreali EW suites. not russian and a BARs radar.


> Totally wrong. Imported weapons are much more expensive than domestic manufactured (especially if they happen to be manufactured in China).
> 
> Of course, if India wants to delude itself to think imported weapons are a bargain.... then go ahead and spend yourself silly.


Totally wrong. Imported weapons can be cheaper, because the cost of development. The Indian made Flankers, Jagaurds still use forign parts that are cheaper to import than to develop or manufacture in India because of the costs associated with building the support.


> LOL.... more self-delusion. China is magnitudes better at manufacturing than India. There is simply no comparison.
> 
> With development of FWS10 engines, China can mass produce J-11B. Of course, mass production of army equipment like SPA, MRLS, tanks and infantry vehicles is never in question


No doubt China is a large scale manufacture but u don't comperhend parts. Not everything is produced in the same factory. perhaps assembled but certianly not produced. Have u taken a look at HP's history? They pretty much buy and assemble. Its their network that works. BTW the WS-10 engines are still using Russian parts.
That was the idea. China didn't start from scratch on this made in China engine. If u doubt it, why don't u look at the J-10 and J-11 that use these engines. Did these aircraft go through major frame modifcations for new engines? No because these engines are not new! They are a mere copy of the previous engines. This was done on purpose in order to have realistic time frame and reduce the amount of modifications for aircraft, overall, reduce cost and the expense of performance or quality.


> You're not fooling anyone. You can't integrate electronics from NATO and those from Russia without some major upgrades. So far I haven't seen any foreign country do this for India, nor has India done it by itself.
> 
> China on the other hand has datalinks and satellite links! Not to mention its own navigation satellite constellation "Compass" aka "Beidou".


right and the Israeli and French defence organisations are good at what exactly? Its called standardization. But to some extent u are right. This is why aircraft like the Su-30MKI use Indian mission computers etc..


> China has already built around 10 major airbases in Tibet. J-11B are deployed there. Then are also some civilian airports. They will all be in operation by 2012.
> 
> Northern India has more airfields / airbases / civilian airports its true but PLAAF airbases in Tibet easily negates this advantage.
> 
> Please, not more of this "low altitude" advantage. Maybe India has problems operating at high altitude because its engines are not powerful enough. But China has no such problems. All it needs is a longer runway, easily done.


And these airbases are in Tibet? Why not build more than a dozen? 
These airfields are on higher altitude, restricting the aircrafts payload, in either fuel or weapons. Then u have the weather which is only decent for 2 months of the year. Imagine trying to intercept with such restrictions. The airfields than the PLAAF would use against India are located in Chengdu.
Please no more of this China is a superpower! we can have air domiance over India bullsh1te.
Physics is physics, doesnt change the circumstances. And if Northern India has more airfields how does a half a dozen operational airbases in Tibet negate the InAFs advantage?
because China a supapower! right?
the advantage the InAF is pretty large. The Tibetan airfields have only recently started employing Flankers. But even with this the payload of the aircraft is reduced and the operational radius. With out fuel, what dogfighting can u do? and with out weapons how do u aim to achieve air superiority against pitiful india?


> With J-11B backed by HQ-9 SAM and KJ-2000 AWACS, China will have air superiority. India will not be able to supply its mountain troops by helicopter.


First the HQ-9 SAM which i suspect to be a Russian S-300 liesenced production will have its range reduced. not because of the missile, but because the of the horizon. It cant target anything that it can\t see. Hence why India only purchased a few of these systems. Because range while good, doesn't mean is realistic.
secondly India does have Phalcons and heavy airdefence system. 
Third but not least. have u considered that the Indian airforce can more aircraft at the border than the PLAAF?


> Wrong on all counts actually. Japan's MSDF (navy) is possibly world's second most powerful surface force. Japan doesn't give any loans to China, considering that China is a bigger economy than Japan.


yes they do.
liar.


> Over the years, China has received foreign aid from some developed countries, and a large amount of them were soft loans borrowed from countries such as Japan, as well as organizations like the World Bank.


China on the rise, more responsibilities expected - GlobalTimes
only recently have the Japanese stopped the soft loans to China. The phrase they used is, since China is strong like Chinese say, they don't need help. The Japanese are only now giving soft loans in large amounts to other nations like India and Pakistan.


> Let's summarize:
> 
> - Before China didn't have fully indigenous J-11B flanker to overwhelm Indian Air Force. Now it does.


what does it matter when the war will be short and no one will have anytime to build anything? iTS what u have that counts not what u could build. If it was ur way. u wouldn't need a standing army of 2 million.


> - Before China didn't have a dozen airbases / civilian airports in Tibet. Now it does.


And the Indian airforce now has more dominate and larger airfields.


> - Before China didn't have highways (motorable by SPA, MRLS) right up to LAC. Now it does.


That might be true but the Indians have more on that end. 1987 scuffle showed that even though the Chinese had these artillery near the Indian border, the Indians had more. 


> In short..... China has fully prepared to fight India and take the war directly to northern Indian plains. That would deliver a death blow to the New Delhi regime.


lol. u are retarded. India was less prepared in 1962 and the PLA claimed it as victory. They couldn't do it then, they are not doing it now. If China was so powerfull why is it that the PLA moved back and India still holds south Tibet?

The issue is logistics. and the geography which u can't change. The advantage belongs to the Indians. 
Which means that the large resources the PLA has will not be usefull in a limited war.
Both countries realize this. Short wars will be faught if anything in the future.
this is why the PLA have the War Zone campiagn and the Indians the Cold Start Doctrine.

And before u reply to my posts. Answer this, If China can do what u say and dominate India, why is it that India holds Chinese territory that PLA once stepped on and why arm Pakistan?



> India hates China:
> 1. To revenge 1962.
> 2. Chinese support of Pakistan.
> 3. India is very very jelous and envy China's success. Many Indian memebers on this fourm even addmmitted it.



Really? Is that why China wants to war with Japan? to take revenge? are you retarded tooo?
Wars are fought over resources. Not bullsh1te high school popularity contests.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

DesiGuy said:


> this thread still going.....?




It is still going because HoWong got un banned. He is trying to "educate" indian members here. WHich I see is hopeless.

Please just stop posting on this thread.


----------



## ArjunaTheWarrior

AerospaceEngineer said:


> It is still going because HoWong got un banned. He is trying to "educate" indian members here. WHich I see is hopeless.
> 
> Please just stop posting on this thread.


educate ... haha ....

guys with IQ which equals that of a fly will educate Indians..  

really funny ...

ALL BOW TO SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE OF THESE TWO CHINESE MASTERS OF ANCIENT KNOWLEDGE OF TROLLING

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DesiGuy

AerospaceEngineer said:


> It is still going because HoWong got un banned. *He is trying to "educate"* indian members here. WHich I see is hopeless.
> 
> Please just stop posting on this thread.


----------



## Badabing

sraja said:


> Hey War mongering Chinese communist Nazi fanatics, Remember what happened to Nazi germany?.
> 
> So sraja, India has had way more Nazi attributes and affiliations than anybody outside of the Axis.
> 
> Starting from the Caste system as a long tradition (Nazi's would hope they could implement such a lasting system through the ages). And then one of your patriots, Subhas Chandra Bose was actually in Nazi Germany as part of the German Werhmacht. Of course the Nazi's never threw Bose's regiment into battle for fear of total annihilation (we all know how masterful Indians are on the battle field, whe it comes to retreating). Bose then turned to Impearial Japan who played him like a drum after the Nazi's advised him to get the heck out because of the Allies advance.
> 
> So your patriotic leaders had no morals to speak of and what gives you the right to call anyone names? Study up on your History first before you put your foot in your mouth again. I haven't even started on Ghandi and Nehru yet but give me a reason and I will.


----------



## HongWu

AerospaceEngineer said:


> Dude stop arguing with them. They will not listen. *Also you just got un banned, these indians are trying hard to pi$$ you off again so you will be banned again.!!!!!!!!!*
> BTW, USA will *NOT *support india. USA will only provide verbal support which is useless!


Relax..... to paraphrase the Pakistanis..... "it is up to the will of the mods whether my voice is heard on PDF" 



ArjunaTheWarrior said:


> how these road will be after waves of cruise missiles like brahmos will make 50 meter holes after every 50 meter back to 50 no 500 years back... heavy equipment ... haha in Himalayas... PLA with small arms was able to sneak into India in 1962 when thr was no IA present in these areas ... it will annihilation for offender now.. defender will win...


LOL..... more Indian self-delusion. PLAAF is far superior to IAF. Chinese cruise missiles have at least 1500 km range, can even hit Mumbai. "Brahmos" relies on Russia for critical components (it's basically Yakhont) and India hasn't even tested any sort of air-launched version.

Once we are done destroying your armed forces, then we start attacking electricity / water infrastructure in your major cities. Then India as a single country is gone forever, back to princely states.



jatt said:


> India has roads too. Closer to the border to Tibet than China does. And the Indians didn't have to spend to much effort to build these paved/dirt roads either. What does that tell u?


That's BS. India is decades behind China in infrastructure development around LAC. China has motorable roads for heavy equipment. India uses helicopters to supply outposts.



jatt said:


> THe J-11B or a or c is still a liecienced COPY it is still Russian and likily still uses Russian parts. The Su-30 MKI is also produced by HAL and the HAL produced version is 5&#37; smaller than the Russian frames.


LOL..... Indians still deluding themselves to think Chinese are at their level. J-11B is fully indigenous and uses no Russian parts. We are so far beyond India that MKI is merely a toy to us.



jatt said:


> The Su-30MKI boasts Isreali EW suites. not russian and a BARs radar.


Total BS... this is something you just made up, admit it.



jatt said:


> Totally wrong. Imported weapons can be cheaper, because the cost of development. The Indian made Flankers, Jagaurds still use forign parts that are cheaper to import than to develop or manufacture in India because of the costs associated with building the support.


Well of course importing is cheaper than manufacturing _in India_ because India lacks manufacturing capability.



jatt said:


> BTW the WS-10 engines are still using Russian parts.


HA HA more Indian made-up facts and self-delusion. Indians are so ashamed of being a low class country that they need to delude themselves to think others are at the same level!



jatt said:


> The Tibetan airfields have only recently started employing Flankers. But even with this the payload of the aircraft is reduced and the operational radius. With out fuel, what dogfighting can u do? and with out weapons how do u aim to achieve air superiority against pitiful india?


You want to bet your country's existence on your claim that China will be unable to operate its aircraft from Tibet airbases with sufficient payload? Betting that PLAAF is ignorant about aircraft operation?  Indians are in for a big surprise!



jatt said:


> Third but not least. have u considered that the Indian airforce can more aircraft at the border than the PLAAF?


With a dozen airbases, China can deploy hundreds of J-11B or J-10. That is more modern fighters than India has in total inventory! Everything else India has is falling apart because of lack of maintenance. Look at the way Harriers and Bisons are falling out of the sky.



jatt said:


> yes they do.
> liar.


 Still deluding yourself to think that China is at the same low class level as India? Prove your claim that Japan still gives soft loans to China.



jatt said:


> only recently have the Japanese stopped the soft loans to China.


2008 is not recent. It's already 2011.



jatt said:


> And before u reply to my posts. Answer this, If China can do what u say and dominate India, why is it that India holds Chinese territory that PLA once stepped on and why arm Pakistan?


Before both China and India were poor and low-tech, not able to fight a major war across the Himalayas. Now, China has totally outpaced India. Our revolutionary military capabilities will be tested against a weak and unstable India totally not expecting to meet its final defeat at the hands of PLA.

See...... it's not 1962 anymore!


----------



## GORKHALI

HongWu said:


> Relax..... to paraphrase the Pakistanis..... "it is up to the will of the mods whether my voice is heard on PDF"
> 
> 
> LOL..... more Indian self-delusion. PLAAF is far superior to IAF. Chinese cruise missiles have at least 1500 km range, can even hit Mumbai. "Brahmos" relies on Russia for critical components (it's basically Yakhont) and India hasn't even tested any sort of air-launched version.
> 
> Once we are done destroying your armed forces, then we start attacking electricity / water infrastructure in your major cities. Then India as a single country is gone forever, back to princely states.
> 
> 
> That's BS. India is decades behind China in infrastructure development around LAC. China has motorable roads for heavy equipment. India uses helicopters to supply outposts.
> 
> 
> LOL..... Indians still deluding themselves to think Chinese are at their level. J-11B is fully indigenous and uses no Russian parts. We are so far beyond India that MKI is merely a toy to us.
> 
> 
> Total BS... this is something you just made up, admit it.
> 
> 
> Well of course importing is cheaper than manufacturing _in India_ because India lacks manufacturing capability.
> 
> 
> HA HA more Indian made-up facts and self-delusion. Indians are so ashamed of being a low class country that they need to delude themselves to think others are at the same level!
> 
> 
> You want to bet your country's existence on your claim that China will be unable to operate its aircraft from Tibet airbases with sufficient payload? Betting that PLAAF is ignorant about aircraft operation?  Indians are in for a big surprise!
> 
> 
> With a dozen airbases, China can deploy hundreds of J-11B or J-10. That is more modern fighters than India has in total inventory! Everything else India has is falling apart because of lack of maintenance. Look at the way Harriers and Bisons are falling out of the sky.
> 
> 
> Still deluding yourself to think that China is at the same low class level as India? Prove your claim that Japan still gives soft loans to China.
> 
> 
> 2008 is not recent. It's already 2011.



next time you open a war mongering thread with your childhood fantasy,then open in chinadefence thread ! I know you want some attention n want to prove your point but give us respite with fantasy....if you think your are so good then go to OR ANY NEUTRAL SITE BUT YOU SO SCARED .


----------



## Pak_Sher

India can never win a two front war with China and Pakistan. Defeating China militarily is an Indian dream like the Indian General dreamed of having tea in the Pakistani capital the next day the 1965 India-Pakistan broke out. 

But we know from history that Pakistan had zero Kashmir before the 1948 war broke out and then we captured 28% of Kashmir and in 1965 we captured another 7%, though Indian text books in schools may state that Pakistan lost 2wars. We just do not care about the text books we just look at the map and enjoy the beautiful Azad Kashmir mountains and valleys that fly the Pakistan Flag.

Leave China aside, in a full scale war India will get beat by Pakistan because we have bought and manufactured a lot of ammo since 1971 until now and it may be used some day.


----------



## GORKHALI

Pak_Sher said:


> India can never win a two front war with China and Pakistan. Defeating China militarily is an Indian dream like the Indian General dreamed of having tea in the Pakistani capital the next day the 1965 India-Pakistan broke out.
> 
> But we know from history that Pakistan had zero Kashmir before the 1948 war broke out and then we captured 28% of Kashmir and in 1965 we captured another 7%, though Indian text books in schools may state that Pakistan lost 2wars. We just do not care about the text books we just look at the map and enjoy the beautiful Azad Kashmir mountains and valleys that fly the Pakistan Flag.
> 
> Leave China aside, in a full scale war India will get beat by Pakistan because we have bought and manufactured a lot of ammo since 1971 until now and it may be used some day.



Talk about yourself ,i mean pakistan.
Else

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ganges Zephyr

@ HongWu
Enough of your mario baby. Now listen: In today's world "who's more powerful" does'nt really work but how much collateral damage one can digest. Surely China cannot afford (neither India) the magnitude of damage India can bring to it.
So STFU and talk more sense

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kingdurgaking

GareebNawaz said:


> And don't think your ally Pakistan will attack india!!! Let your ally defeat Taliban first. I am not doubting pakistan's strength but I am doubting it's willingness to actually go on a full scale war with India. They have too many internal problems plus their economy Is in no shape to handle the expenses of war. Many countrys will say they will attack India, but seriously they won't. Just because you guys have nukes that doesn't mean you will overpower India. Hongwu your rants are nothing but fantasies and your country seeks friendship with India more than destroy it.



Pakistan economy at present cannot withstand a week long war with India... in conjunction to the Indian Navy power in Arabian sea.. I doubt they will be able to hold even that long... It all depends on the economy how it improves in this decade ... If Pakistan looses this decade like it did Last decade ... it is bound to go for toss until some one rescues that country just like EU...


----------



## HongWu

Ganges Zephyr said:


> @ HongWu
> Enough of your mario baby. Now listen: In today's world "who's more powerful" does'nt really work but how much collateral damage one can digest. Surely China cannot afford (neither India) the magnitude of damage India can bring to it.
> So STFU and talk more sense


There are lots of Indians who make this claim, but it's simply not true. China *can *afford a war with India, even if it leads to a huge disruption in trade and commerce. Why? Because China will gain three things strategically:

(1) China decisively asserts power over Tibet. Nobody will ever challenge Chinese sovereignty over Tibet again.

(2) If India totally falls apart into princely states, China can come in as a colonialist and control resources. Just like the British, we will take all the gold and jewelry from wealthy Indians to compensate us for cost of the war.

(3) Defeating India will intimidate any country that tries to ally with USA to contain China. Aside from maybe Japan, all other countries will immediately switch to "neutral" or "pro-China" instead of "pro-USA" out of fear.


----------



## Markus

HongWu said:


> There are lots of Indians who make this claim, but it's simply not true. China *can *afford a war with India



Ok then, we eagerly await for 2013, thats when, according to you, the second Indo-Sino war will break out.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WARBIRD

HongWu said:


> There are lots of Indians who make this claim, but it's simply not true. China *can *afford a war with India, even if it leads to a huge disruption in trade and commerce. Why? Because China will gain three things strategically:
> 
> (1) China decisively asserts power over Tibet. Nobody will ever challenge Chinese sovereignty over Tibet again.
> 
> (2) If India totally falls apart into princely states, China can come in as a colonialist and control resources. Just like the British, we will take all the gold and jewelry from wealthy Indians to compensate us for cost of the war.
> 
> (3) Defeating India will intimidate any country that tries to ally with USA to contain China. Aside from maybe Japan, all other countries will immediately switch to "neutral" or "pro-China" instead of "pro-USA" out of fear.



That mama boy jintao doesn't have the guts to irk even North Korea how on earth is he going to confront US & India.

China was kicked in the *** several times by Japan ,USSR ,mongols etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WARBIRD

AerospaceEngineer said:


> He is confident because.
> 
> 1. China kicked india's a@@ in 1962 even thought both USSR and USA back india. Remember indian army was equibed with US arms such as M-16. But China kicked india's butt so hard that even after 50 years india never dare to attack Tibet.
> 
> 2. india is weak in terms of building arms. In 1982 InAF already has Mirage-2000 at the time it was one of the best on par with F-16. PLAF however are flying J-7 which is far inferior than Mirage-200. Yet after 30 years of india's "modernization" india can not build lca on its own and need russian radar, American engine, Russian missile(R-77) and others to arm lca. The ajunk tank is also a failure otherwise india will not buy so many T-90 from russia.
> 
> 3. India's airforce is not that good. SU-30MKI can be easily countered by J-10A/B, J-11B, and in the future will get owned by J-20. Mig-29 can be even handled by JF-17. China also got 124 SU-30MKK/MKK2 plus lots more J-7, J-8.
> 
> 4. China has much more advanced missiles and larger air defence systems than india.
> 
> 5. In 1962 China Kicked india's butt on its own. Now with Pakistan on China's side do you still think india has a chance? China attack from North, and East while Pakistan attack from the West! In 1962 india got USSR and USA support, today Russia will clearly not send anything if China and india goes to war. ALso USA will not join because USA has huge trade with CHina, not to mention China is USA's largest debt holder. What does india have when it comes to USA? India can not offer USA anything. This is why US currently "support" india so that when india and China goes to war, USA will benifit from this. China once again kick india's butt but suffer losses and USA will be happy, dancing and singing.



LOL Sir Where were Ur when US provided Taiwan(True ruler of the Chinese people CPC members are corrupt, rapist. One of them is Hu jintao

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## St3@lth

Indo Chinese war 2-14-15 rofl

Not any time soon else, both countries will be dragged several decades back.


----------



## luckyyy

any astrologer will tell you that next war will be in 2030.........

*satrun transiting rohini *


----------



## duhastmish

*WHY THE HELL WOULD INDIA AND CHINA GO FOR WAR ????? 

WHAT ISIT THAT CHINA WILL GAIN FROM - An UNSTABLE INDIA ? AT THE Cost of huge loss. 

this kid needs to go out and find some love. 

indo - china would rather be good partner in future to counter - west . *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kingdurgaking

Pak_Sher said:


> India can never win a two front war with China and Pakistan. Defeating China militarily is an Indian dream like the Indian General dreamed of having tea in the Pakistani capital the next day the 1965 India-Pakistan broke out.
> 
> But we know from history that Pakistan had zero Kashmir before the 1948 war broke out and then we captured 28% of Kashmir and in 1965 we captured another 7%, though Indian text books in schools may state that Pakistan lost 2wars. We just do not care about the text books we just look at the map and enjoy the beautiful Azad Kashmir mountains and valleys that fly the Pakistan Flag.
> 
> Leave China aside, in a full scale war India will get beat by Pakistan because we have bought and manufactured a lot of ammo since 1971 until now and it may be used some day.



India will not win a war.. it will be able to defend both the borders successfully... 


War is not about firing ammo.... War is fought on how to take enemy strategic assets ... how to cut off the supply lines ... so that enemy will fall on his own... 

India has learnt this effectively... We are deploying our assets in appropriate places to defend our country...

India will effectively thwart the aggression on both the ends...


Our think tanks already visualized or conceptualized a two front war and they are taking necessary steps by doing appropriate procurements...



..... which shows we are ready for two front war.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Whiplash

HongWu said:


> There are lots of Indians who make this claim, but it's simply not true. China *can *afford a war with India, even if it leads to a huge disruption in trade and commerce. Why? Because China will gain three things strategically:
> 
> (1) China decisively asserts power over Tibet. Nobody will ever challenge Chinese sovereignty over Tibet again.
> 
> (2) If India totally falls apart into princely states, China can come in as a colonialist and control resources. Just like the British, we will take all the gold and jewelry from wealthy Indians to compensate us for cost of the war.
> 
> (3) Defeating India will intimidate any country that tries to ally with USA to contain China. Aside from maybe Japan, all other countries will immediately switch to "neutral" or "pro-China" instead of "pro-USA" out of fear.



You were probably getting wet just typing that. This is the single stupidest thread I've ever seen on defpk. 
This guy needs to get his fat @$$ out of his computer and get a life. 
Remember I said out of the computer. Don't go typing 'life' on ebay.


----------



## my name is arya

what will india and china gain from war 

while we can gain lots of things from peace


----------



## boris

to the TS,i suggest you see the map of the three countries very carefully if you want to start from the bare basics of strategy during a war situation(if it ever happens)

when i see it i see a lot of sense in our chief's idea that indian armed forces be ready for a two sided attack.

if you still cant understand i'll give you a hint "flanking maneuver"


----------



## T90TankGuy

mods i really think you need to close this thread . tis pure and unadulterated BS


----------



## Raj4213

Gents,

If you observe the thread starter posts... he is decisive to prove that China is superior from India in every possible way and to prove he is saying all the chinese stuff are more reliable, superior, ultimate quality and so on.. I surely believe that this kid has got a lot of thrashing when it comes to discussing the actuals that the Chinese actually have. 

For all indians..

U sure know what is the value of chinese stuff in india. Cheap things man. that dont come with any warranty. use and throw. if it really works else just throw. 

@ thread starter.

we know u r stuff kid.. go to bed and feel happy that china is superior. we know who really is.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

Raj4213 said:


> Gents,
> 
> If you observe the thread starter posts... he is decisive to prove that China is superior from India in every possible way and to prove he is saying all the chinese stuff are more reliable, superior, ultimate quality and so on.. I surely believe that this kid has got a lot of thrashing when it comes to discussing the actuals that the Chinese actually have.
> 
> For all indians..
> 
> U sure know what is the value of chinese stuff in india. Cheap things man. that dont come with any warranty. use and throw. if it really works else just throw.


India can only afford the cheap, low quality goods from China. We keep the high quality good for ourselves, like high-speed train and nation-wide 3G/4G coverage. Cheap goods can be sold to Indians and Africans.



Raj4213 said:


> @ thread starter.
> 
> we know u r stuff kid.. go to bed and feel happy that china is superior. we know who really is.


Okay Raj4213 from Bangalore. You are obviously so superior living over there in *Bangalore *I'm in awe at your wealth and fine background.


----------



## Major Shaitan Singh

HongWu said:


> There are lots of Indians who make this claim, but it's simply not true. China *can *afford a war with India, even if it leads to a huge disruption in trade and commerce. Why? Because China will gain three things strategically:
> 
> (1) China decisively asserts power over Tibet. Nobody will ever challenge Chinese sovereignty over Tibet again.
> 
> (2) If India totally falls apart into princely states, China can come in as a colonialist and control resources. Just like the British, we will take all the gold and jewelry from wealthy Indians to compensate us for cost of the war.
> 
> 
> (3) Defeating India will intimidate any country that tries to ally with USA to contain China. Aside from maybe Japan, all other countries will immediately switch to "neutral" or "pro-China" instead of "pro-USA" out of fear.




(1) China decisively asserts power over Tibet. Nobody will ever challenge Chinese sovereignty over Tibet again.

Then there will be war in every streets and blocks of Beijing and Sanghai.... *U must remember there are 250 million Muslim staying in India who have guts to take on chinese on any lane and will convert entire Asia to Iraq or Afghanistan *

(2) If India totally falls apart into princely states, China can come in as a colonialist and control resources. Just like the British, we will take all the gold and jewelry from wealthy Indians to compensate us for cost of the war.

*I knew Chinese are thiefs they will loot and take whatever they get. Last week I lost a bucket from outside my house*

(3) Defeating India will intimidate any country that tries to ally with USA to contain China. Aside from maybe Japan, all other countries will immediately switch to "neutral" or "pro-China" instead of "pro-USA" out of fear.[/quote]

Haha this is a good joke.... India Russia has military tie up.... we will not only get support from Russia but also NATO and US you forgot (*most favoured ally non NATO*)..

Then China will break and there will be riot in every city in china and all Kumfu master will come out and try to take control.


----------



## rohitshubham

i dont get one thing. why will pakistan or china attack on delhi bombay, or any major city? they want kashmir or ap or the whole of india. and why would we go back to the princely states. is that only india had prices or kings. you also had some qin, han or some similar sort of dynasties . it was coz the people the feudal system was accepted at that time . now the world adores democracy not the princely system.


----------



## HongWu

rohitshubham said:


> i dont get one thing. why will pakistan or china attack on delhi bombay, or any major city? they want kashmir or ap or the whole of india. and why would we go back to the princely states. is that only india had prices or kings. you also had some qin, han or some similar sort of dynasties . it was coz the people the feudal system was accepted at that time . now the world adores democracy not the princely system.


In a war with India, the first targets for China will be industrial areas in northern India. New Delhi is a very vulnerable target to air raids from Tibet airfields. The goal is to destroy India's ability to make war and set it back economically 10 years.

If India suffers a traumatic loss, it would probably be the end of the union. Indians actually don't like each other at all, unless they are from the same state. So there would be a lot of communal violence as people decide what state to belong to, similar to partition.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rajan_united

HongWu said:


> In a war with India, the first targets for China will be industrial areas in northern India. New Delhi is a very vulnerable target to air raids from Tibet airfields. The goal is to destroy India's ability to make war and set it back economically 10 years.
> 
> If India suffers a traumatic loss, it would probably be the end of the union. Indians actually don't like each other at all, unless they are from the same state. So there would be a lot of communal violence as people decide what state to belong to, similar to partition.



*We have all our Army, Navy, Airforce and even nuclear weapons kept in Parliament so that you can strike only once and win fight.*Which standard you study ? 

*HongWu*


----------



## HongWu

http://the-diplomat.com/2011/01/25/india’s-doctrinal-shift/



> The Indian Army is undertaking its first strategic transformation in more than two decades. And it has its sights firmly on China.
> 
> By Nitin Gokhale;
> 
> India&#8217;s 1.1 million-strong army is on the verge of major doctrinal and organisational change.
> 
> Working from the results of a &#8216;Transformation Study,&#8217; which was produced by a team of generals led by Chief of Army Staff Gen. VK Singh when he was Eastern Army Commander, a series of radical suggestions are set to be implemented to bring about a paradigm shift in the way the Indian Army is deployed and operationalised, both defensively and offensively.
> 
> Essentially, the changes are aimed at strengthening the Army&#8217;s capacity for fighting what one serving general has described as a war on &#8216;two and a half fronts&#8217;&#8212;a reference to possible simultaneous confrontations with Pakistan and China at the same time as managing an internal counter-insurgency effort.
> 
> So far, India&#8217;s four wars with Pakistan and one with China have been stand-alone conflicts, but India&#8217;s strategic thinkers are concerned that there&#8217;s a genuine possibility that close allies China and Pakistan could launch a joint offensive against India.
> 
> And the Army doesn&#8217;t want to be caught flat-footed. Instead, it&#8217;s looking for an overhaul in thinking that will produce a force capable of quick mobilization and rapid deployment.
> 
> Speaking at his annual media event, on January 15, Singh confirmed that this current line of thinking reaches up to the highest levels of the force. At the event, Singh revealed publicly for the first time that the Army would &#8216;reorganise, restructure and relocate&#8217; various formations to help transform it into a more agile and lethal force. &#8216;We&#8217;re looking at reorganising and restructuring our force headquarters&#8230;for faster decision making, so that it becomes slightly flattened and more responsive,&#8217; he said.
> 
> These views chimed with comments he made last year, when he told me: &#8216;Our focus is now shifting from being an adversary-specific force to a capability-based force, able to fight across the spectrum&#8212;in the mountains, in the desert, night and day, in the hot summer or harsh winter.&#8217;
> 
> According to Singh, the Army is planning &#8216;test beds&#8217; to try out some of the concepts contained in the study with a view to eventually implementing them on a larger scale. &#8216;We&#8217;re looking at theaterisation of combat support resources to ensure synergy of resources in a theatre,&#8217; he added.
> 
> So what does this mean in practical terms? Top generals have indicated that under these plans, the Army will be organised in a way that allows two theatres to be independent of each other so that one theatre won&#8217;t require the resources of another if both are engaged in combat operations. In addition, the Army is also reportedly planning to increase its aviation assets by securing more helicopters for the Army Aviation Corps.
> 
> It&#8217;s been more than two decades since the last transformation in India&#8217;s strategic doctrine. Back in the 1980s, the mercurial Gen. K. Sundarji conceptualised and implemented a strategy based around the principle of deploying massive armoured strength aimed at slicing Pakistan at its &#8216;waist&#8217;. This concept was first tested with Operation Brasstacks in the late 1980s, with the army divided into &#8216;defensive&#8217; and &#8216;strike&#8217; corps, on the assumption that it would be Pakistan that would make the first move in a conventional war.
> 
> Under the plan, the defensive corps, located closer to the border, was meant to absorb the initial Pakistani offensive, while the three strike corps, with massive superior capabilities, were designed to strike deep, with the ultimate aim of cutting Pakistan in two.
> 
> However, the limitations of the Sundarji doctrine were exposed in 2001-02 during Operation Parakram, when India mobilised the entire army as a coercive strategy after Pakistan-based terrorists attacked the Indian Parliament. The massive mobilisation took weeks to come to fruition, nullifying whatever advantage India had hoped to derive from moving first. The failure of the Sundarji doctrine prompted India to devise a new strategy popularly known as &#8216;Cold Start,&#8217; under which the defensive corps close to the border with Pakistan were re-designated as &#8216;pivot&#8217; corps.
> 
> These pivot corps were given enhanced offensive elements under integrated battle groups that consisted of division-sized forces comprising armour, artillery and aviation assets designed to swiftly hit Pakistan before the strike corps, located deeper inside India, could mobilize. Cold Start was meant to see the battle groups in action in less than 48 hours.
> 
> Over the past decade, this doctrine has been tested and fine-tuned through a series of exercises in the deserts of Rajasthan and on the plains of Punjab. But this new study looks to take the Cold Start concept to another level by placing all three strike corps under one command to allow for a faster response.
> 
> Another new element in the army&#8217;s reorganization plan is the formation of a mountain strike corps, which would be deployed closer to India&#8217;s vast mountainous border with China, either in the east or the north. *The fact is that although no one in India&#8217;s military establishment wants to spell it out, China is at the centre of future strategic planning in the Indian armed forces as a whole, not just for the Army.*
> 
> *And, as China looms larger, India&#8217;s Defence Ministry is shifting its focus away from Pakistan* in its discussions on the Army&#8217;s next long-term integrated perspective plan, which will cover the period from 2012 to 2027. Indeed, officials have said the Army has recommended that infrastructure along India&#8217;s entire 4000-plus kilometre border with China be swiftly upgraded to enable it to deploy and operate effectively in this difficult terrain.
> 
> Specifically, the Army wants the government to build all-weather roads right up to the border, and also connect all important formation headquarters in the high altitude areas of Ladakh, Arunachal Pradesh, Uttaranchal and Himachal Pradesh. Already, more than 75 tactically and strategically important roads are reportedly currently under construction in the areas bordering China, and the army wants these roads to be operational as quickly as possible to increase its ability to deploy and maintain adequate troop strength along the border.
> 
> Other elements of the long-term integrated plan are to include the enhancement of meaningful training to prepare for existing and emerging challenges; improving the quality of life and living conditions in forward deployment areas; and enhancing synergies with other services.
> 
> *Yet even though the plan is technically still under discussion, as far as China goes, then there have already been some developments. For example, two mountain divisions are to be raised in the north-east of the country by the middle of this year. Meanwhile, at least two more divisions to be raised in the next five years will enable the army to have a dedicated Mountain Strike Corps to be deployed in the north-east or in Ladakh.*
> 
> All this suggests that after nearly two decades of lethargy and indifference, India&#8217;s defence planners are bringing in fresh concepts and gearing up to meet future strategic challenges. There&#8217;s plenty for them to think about.
> 
> Nitin Gokhale is Defence & Strategic Affairs Editor with Indian broadcaster NDTV 24×7


India is undergoing a total reorientation of its army from Pakistan to China in the Eastern Sector. This is probably a political move to coordinate with USA, since USA doesn't really like India threatening Pakistan.

India is preparing for a strike against Chinese forces in the Eastern Sector. Possibly in combination with a crisis situation between USA and China over the Korean peninsula, Diaoyutai or Taiwan. India might even try to use its mountain troops to attack Lhasa.

The most dangerous time for China is here! Ready our nuclear weapons for the biggest war ever to open up the 21st century! The Second Indo-Chinese War could happen as early as 2013.


----------



## HongWu

SINGH.P said:


> I agree its a pointless article. Same applies to Pakistan, why it is spending so much on nuclear arsenal if it is for self defence.
> 
> War between India and China will surely resuls in world war III and whole of human race will be at stake.
> 
> As far as China is concerned , it has to first tackle Korea, Japan and other neighbours , who are suspecting its hostile intentions.


No, we will attack India first, because India is the weakest and most evil of China's enemies. Cruise missiles can rain down on New Delhi within hours of Beijing giving the orders to mobile missile brigades based in Tibet.


----------



## HongWu

SR 71 Blackbird said:


> You think that our ABM's will be sleeping??


Your ABMs are only in your dreams. China's cruise missiles are already deployed in Tibet!!!


----------



## HongWu

Abhishek_ said:


> chalo chuntu abb uthh jao, skool jaane ka waqt ho gaya...hoooh yeh kya, bistar mein mutra visarjann kar diya tumne...


Yes we Chinese now know India wants to stab China in the back and then become #1 Asian superpower. Your intentions are clear. India wants to see China be defeated by USA alliance so India can take Tibet!

*The final defeat of New Delhi will signal China's rise to superpower in the 21st century.* Once India separates into princely states, then China can control the Indian Ocean.


----------



## HongWu

^ In fact, it is India's own social instability that is driving relations with China to go hostile. Indian domestic problems makes the government use China as an external enemy.

I know Indians cannot stop their descent into militant expansionism because otherwise their country goes into chaos, but certainly China will not be taken advantage of by an expansionist India!


----------



## HongWu

^ You want proof? China is already preparing for the Second Indo-Chinese War! Exercises on Tibetan Plateau.












Ha ha..... India thought it could take advantage of China to advance its expansionist agenda? India wants to be #1 Asian superpower? India wants to dominate all its neighbors?

India's evil agenda will run right into China's steely fist. All other South Asian nations will rejoice at India's humiliation.


----------



## Sonic_boom

HongWu said:


> In a war with India, the first targets for China will be industrial areas in northern India. New Delhi is a very vulnerable target to air raids from Tibet airfields. The goal is to destroy India's ability to make war and set it back economically 10 years.
> 
> .




I hope not all the chinese are like you...



> If India suffers a traumatic loss, it would probably be the end of the union. *Indians actually don't like each other at all, unless they are from the same state.* So there would be a lot of communal violence as people decide what state to belong to, similar to partition




lol wtf  you wont even get 50 cents for that vomit


----------



## IND151

@ hong wu
why do you think there will be war between china and India? as far i can see both nations dont want war.* as i have already posted, both nations will try to beat each other in field of commerce. * through this way, they will try to achieve the status of economic super power. * without giant economy and GDP, both china and India will not able to achieve status of military superpower.* *they first must have enormous economic weight to back their would be increase in military expenditure.* *china and India will try to influence Asia by achieving status of economic superpower and not through war. *


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

humanfirst said:


> @hongwu..
> So when is the war starting?





GLOBAL HAWK said:


> Yeahh someone please tell me the exact start date



According to the Indian media, the next Sino-Indian war will happen "before 2012".

*China could attack India before 2012 - NDTV.com

'Nervous' China may attack India by 2012 - Indian Express*

According to the Chinese media... never.

So choose a middle point between the two, and you'll have your answer. Maybe.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Chinese-Dragon said:


> According to the Indian media, the next Sino-Indian war will happen "before 2012".
> 
> *China could attack India before 2012 - NDTV.com
> 
> 'Nervous' China may attack India by 2012 - Indian Express*
> 
> According to the Chinese media... never.
> 
> So choose a middle point between the two, and you'll have your answer. Maybe.



No answers to this post?

Maybe someone wants to make another prediction?


----------



## GLOBAL HAWK

Chinese-Dragon said:


> According to the Indian media, the next Sino-Indian war will happen "before 2012".
> 
> *China could attack India before 2012 - NDTV.com
> 
> 'Nervous' China may attack India by 2012 - Indian Express*
> 
> According to the Chinese media... never.
> 
> So choose a middle point between the two, and you'll have your answer. Maybe.



I pat u on da back 
u'r clever but nonetheless wishing for war !

It aint gonna happen in our gaurd 
When we rise the world will change for ever 

enuf of this BS for me, I'm hungry for some spicy Jin Gu fish fillets
See u sometime later


----------



## Tumba

In the early months of 2013 PLA started to move large no. of divisions into Tibet plateau using the train route and roads close to border with India, Su  30 MKK and J-11 and J-10 were deployed Tibet With bombers stationed in Chengdu. 
India responded with similar actions. Large no of troops deployed on border. 
On last week of April Chinese launched the massive cruise and ballistic missile strike on Border strong hold of Indian army and all around North Indian and North Eastern Air Bases.
Within minutes missiles were picked up by radars on Indian side and similar strikes were launched by Indian Military on Tibetan Plateau bases of PLA and border concentration of PLA Military bases within reach of Brahmos, Prithvi and Agni with conventional warheads. All the Air Assets on both Indian and Chinese side were airborne and started to patrol their own area under heavy air defense cover.
Most of the supply lines on both sides were cut with cruise missile taking both road and train routes. 
Large no. of Chinese troops started to invade northern sector (Ladakh) and Eastern sector (Arunachal). PLA troops got close to Indian defenses on border within hours.
The invading PLA was with light arms supported by artillery but they were easy target for bunkered Indian troops sitting on strategic heights on Himalayan border In India. PLA rocket artillery concentrated on these bunkers but no significant Results were gained. PLA stuck within Indian border with ever stretching supply lines.
In air both Air forces were thinking to take on enemy on their heavy Air Defenses networks but. IAF remained inside border only cruise missiles and prithvi were doing the job for military.
PLAAFs jets finally to support their ground troops in Indian side took the risk. Large number of J-10 with full AoA load and Su-30 MKK with strike package with J-11 crossed the border. 
It was a massacre for PLAAF in dense Indian Air Defense with full integration of AWACS, S-300 batteries and Su-30 MKI with Mig -29. 

Now stuck Chinese started to push Pakistan into war on western front with India. USA and other
World powers warned Pakistan against going into this. Small skirmishes reported on border with India but with no major escalations. USA deployed 2 CBGs near north Arabian Sea warning Pakistan against any misadventure.

Finally PLA withdraw inside Tibetan border taking massive causalities both on ground and air.


----------



## Paan Singh




----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Wishful thinking. 

Why would China "invade" India, when our economy has become the second largest in the world and continuing to do so well? How much economic value does Indian land hold?

The most likely "flashpoint" for another war in the subcontinent, would most probably be a repeat of the Mumbai attacks or something similar. This would force India to take action against the so-called "training camps" in Pakistan.

So in fact, it is more likely that India attacks Pakistan, and then China joins in to support Pakistan. China does not need, or want, to invade India proper... there is no economic value to be gained.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## conworldus

China doesn't want Indian slums. Don't worry.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tallboy123

Not again Hong Wu....

stop this silly tricks


----------



## Tumba

to all chinese members ...

if you dont want war why your Govt. claiming Arunachal Pradesh as your territory ???


----------



## Tumba

all the fellow members ...


i think its more realistic than HongWu. i just want him to see the light what wub likely to happen


----------



## conworldus

Tumba said:


> to all chinese members ...
> 
> if you dont want war why your Govt. claiming Arunachal Pradesh as your territory ???



Because it is Chinese territory.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tumba

conworldus said:


> Because it is Chinese territory.


then INVADE ...  we Indians are waiting


----------



## Paan Singh

conworldus said:


> Because it is Chinese territory.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Tumba said:


> to all chinese members ...
> 
> if you dont want war why your Govt. claiming Arunachal Pradesh as your territory ???



To all Indian members:

If you don't want war, why does your government claim Aksai Chin?

Why has your government been hosting our largest separatist group (Tibetan government "in exile") for over half a century?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Masterchief

Oh dear doesnt peace thrill you guys, why should we always talk about war and nuking each other. One thread started by a troll has already become a headache and now we have to deal with another one.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Tumba said:


> *then INVADE ...  we Indians are waiting*



Yes, your predecessors were quite confident before 1962 as well.

Which is why they backstabbed us in 1959, and conducted the forward policy in 1962. They were too overconfident.

Here is a very old Chinese quote, that sums up the situation quite nicely:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## thebrownguy

Armchair generals at it again!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tumba

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Yes, your predecessors were quite confident before 1962 as well.
> 
> Which is why they backstabbed us in 1959, and conducted the forward policy in 1962. They were too overconfident.
> 
> Here is a very old Chinese quote, that sums up the situation quite nicely:


in 1962 there was no way india could hav knowledge of chinese deployment in tibet 

but this is information age now .... we can know even if one 155 mm gun moves from Chengdu to tibet ...


so no more backstabbing now...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xMustiiej70

so pakistan won?
or the indigenous indians?

or is it undecisive?


----------



## Tumba

xMustiiej70 said:


> so pakistan won?
> or the indigenous indians?
> 
> or is it undecisive?


Pakistan didnt get in... PLA withdrew taking heavy losses...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xMustiiej70

sino means china?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Tumba said:


> so no more backstabbing now...



You're right, India won't be able to backstab us again, like they did in 1959.


----------



## Masterchief

@chinese dragon: lets leave this cr@p debate sir, arguing here will only waste our time. @tumba: listen brother, i know you started this thread after you saw the thread started by hongwu, he talks everytime about war only, China and India are moving towards peace, we have had some differences but that doesnt mean we start a war to settle our differences, imagine a world where india and china prosper through cooperation! Thats the world we want, drop your hatred brother, china and india can learn lot from each other, and please never start these type of threads again.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tumba

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You're right, India won't be able to backstab us again, like they did in 1959.


i mean no more repeat of backstabbing by PLA like in 1962

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tumba

Masterchief said:


> @chinese dragon: lets leave this cr@p debate sir, arguing here will only waste our time. @tumba: listen brother, i know you started this thread after you saw the thread started by hongwu, he talks everytime about war only, China and India are moving towards peace, we have had some differences but that doesnt mean we start a war to settle our differences, imagine a world where india and china prosper through cooperation! Thats the world we want, drop your hatred brother, china and india can learn lot from each other, and please never start these type of threads again.


bro i support you in every sentence ... 

i also want to see india and china grow like brothers ..

but there are many people here who thinks india is too weak to protect herself...

i just want to show them what cud really happen///

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Masterchief

@tumba: if some people think we are weak, let them think, why should we bother?


----------



## HongWu

Tumba said:


> all the fellow members ...
> 
> 
> i think its more realistic than HongWu. i just want him to see the light what wub likely to happen


Ha ha ...... you think Russian made 1990's Su-30MKK is the most advanced in PLAAF!  Our J-10B and J-11B will knock out all Su-30MKI before you even detect them.

I heard India had license assembly for some MKI kits. Once they assembled them in India factories, they found out they can't fly. So they had to order new ones assembled in Rusia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tumba

Masterchief said:


> @tumba: if some people think we are weak, let them think, why should we bother?


bro this is a defense forum ... we are here because we love our armed forces and feel proud of them. why shud we let some members on Defense forums all around the globe think our forces are weak ...


we Indians 1.2 Billion are with our strong forces... even in this virtual world of internet

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tumba

HongWu said:


> Ha ha ...... you think Russian made 1990's Su-30MKK is the most advanced in PLAAF!  Our J-10B and J-11B will knock out all Su-30MKI before you even detect them.
> 
> I heard India had license assembly for some MKI kits. Once they assembled them in India factories, they found out they can't fly. So they had to order new ones assembled in Rusia.


so wats the most advance fighter right now deployed in PLAAF and PLANAF ???

i think without no doubt ... Su - 30 MKK ... armed with R -77 with russian PESA ...

if you want to talk about

J- 10 B and J - 11 B

than look at wat Indian Air Force is going to deploy in near future ...

Upgraded Mig - 29
Upgraded Mirage - 2009
Upgraded Su - 30 MKI - III

MMRCA - most probably Euro fighter Typhon

Tejas MK2
AMCA

PAK FA
FGFA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

Tumba said:


> in 1962 there was no way india could hav knowledge of chinese deployment in tibet


Wrong. Back in 1962, your leaders assumed China *couldn't *do it. Not that China wouldn't do it.

Just like now. India *assumes *that China can't reduce northern Indian cities to rubble with a cruise missile attack.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tumba

HongWu said:


> Wrong. Back in 1962, your leaders assumed China *couldn't *do it. Not that China wouldn't do it.
> 
> Just like now. India *assumes *that China can't reduce northern Indian cities to rubble with a cruise missile attack.


in 1962 ...

our leader was incompetent fool Nehru with his Hindi Chini bhai bhai crap ...

now things are totally different ... we are a military state now ...

Regular Armed forces - 1.5 Million

Para Military - 1.5 Million

Central Para Military - No count  ... 

With worlds highest man power in military more than china

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Last Hope

What the hell do you think you all are doing? @Bhartis
Showing your immaturity?
Give us all a break, we don't want keyboard defence analysts here, and neither trolls, who have made this forum informal. If you all really wanna do this, move towards Indian Defence Forums, not Pakistani!

Hope you get it, I don't wanna be harsh but this forum has lost it's charm 

Regards.


----------



## Masterchief

@last hope: aaargh... How many times have you guys been told not to use the word 'bharti'. Btw check the whole thread, not a single indian has sided with tumba, we all have critisised it.


----------



## Tumba

Last Hope said:


> What the hell do you think you all are doing? @Bhartis
> Showing your immaturity?
> Give us all a break, we don't want keyboard defence analysts here, and neither trolls, who have made this forum informal. If you all really wanna do this, move towards Indian Defence Forums, not Pakistani!
> 
> Hope you get it, I don't wanna be harsh but this forum has lost it's charm
> 
> Regards.


haha ...

always nice to interact with our friendly neighbors ...


----------



## HongWu

IND151 said:


> @ hong wu
> why do you think there will be war between china and India? as far i can see both nations dont want war.


*
You claim India wants peace? Then why does Indian army occupy Kashmir when most people don't want to be Indian? Why does Indian army occupy Southern Tibet when it has been part of Tibet since ancient times?

India is an expansionist, territory grabbing state right from its birth. This is one of the most fundamental institutions it inherited from the British -- expand like an empire.

This is why India can never have peace with its neighbors. Either India will defeat them to become an empire or else India is defeated and splits into many princely states.



Dharmocol said:



Try to take over the tiny Taiwan first,we will accept u as the super power of Asia.

Click to expand...

That might happen sooner than you think. We are working on it.*


----------



## Elmo

*Everyone on this thread - Behave!*


----------



## Paan Singh

Elmo said:


> *Everyone on this thread - Behave!*



plz close this thread


----------



## xMustiiej70

wait wtf is this?
this war is a scenerio? or is really happened?
title says 2-13-1015

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## logic

*WAR MONGERS WET DREAM*



Tumba said:


> In the early months of 2013 PLA started to move large no. of divisions into Tibet plateau using the train route and roads close to border with India, Su &#8211; 30 MKK and J-11 and J-10 were deployed Tibet With bombers stationed in Chengdu.
> India responded with similar actions. Large no of troops deployed on border.
> On last week of April Chinese launched the massive cruise and ballistic missile strike on Border strong hold of Indian army and all around North Indian and North Eastern Air Bases.
> Within minutes missiles were picked up by radars on Indian side and similar strikes were launched by Indian Military on Tibetan Plateau bases of PLA and border concentration of PLA Military bases within reach of Brahmos, Prithvi and Agni with conventional warheads. All the Air Assets on both Indian and Chinese side were airborne and started to patrol their own area under heavy air defense cover.
> Most of the supply lines on both sides were cut with cruise missile taking both road and train routes.
> Large no. of Chinese troops started to invade northern sector (Ladakh) and Eastern sector (Arunachal). PLA troops got close to Indian defenses on border within hours.
> The invading PLA was with light arms supported by artillery but they were easy target for bunkered Indian troops sitting on strategic heights on Himalayan border In India. PLA rocket artillery concentrated on these bunkers but no significant Results were gained. PLA stuck within Indian border with ever stretching supply lines.
> In air both Air forces were thinking to take on enemy on their heavy Air Defenses networks but. IAF remained inside border only cruise missiles and prithvi were doing the job for military.
> PLAAF&#8217;s jets finally to support their ground troops in Indian side took the risk. Large number of J-10 with full AoA load and Su-30 MKK with strike package with J-11 crossed the border.
> It was a massacre for PLAAF in dense Indian Air Defense with full integration of AWACS, S-300 batteries and Su-30 MKI with Mig -29.
> 
> Now stuck Chinese started to push Pakistan into war on western front with India. USA and other
> World powers warned Pakistan against going into this. Small skirmishes reported on border with India but with no major escalations. USA deployed 2 CBGs near north Arabian Sea warning Pakistan against any misadventure.
> 
> Finally PLA withdraw inside Tibetan border taking massive causalities both on ground and air.



The Basis of this wet dream are baseless.


> On last week of April Chinese launched the massive cruise and ballistic missile strike on Border strong hold of Indian army and all around North Indian and North Eastern Air Bases.



Why will china launch only such a impotent attack?
If China will Attack they will be far more clever.

If India Pakistan war was not bad enough or M.A.D enough some indian members of the forum use it cook up a scenario where *India end up with 2X M.A.D*


----------



## CardSharp

I don't know which one of the two threads are more ridiculous. 


Reported and hopefully deleted soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Gabbar

*This stupid Thread have been reported to MODS.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CardSharp

Gabbar said:


> *This stupid Thread have been reported to MODS.*



I reported both threads. Oh well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tumba

logic said:


> *WAR MONGERS WET DREAM*
> 
> 
> 
> The Basis of this wet dream are baseless.
> 
> 
> Why will china launch only such a impotent attack?
> If China will Attack they will be far more clever.
> 
> If India Pakistan war was not bad enough or M.A.D enough some indian members of the forum use it cook up a scenario where *India end up with 2X M.A.D*


the attack of cruise missiles can take out the bases that are fully marked on both of sides like ... Roads, Rail Tracks, Bases of Both Army and Air Forces

but taking defenses on border that are spread around Himalayan terrain with both side having a million troops is next to impossible...


----------



## Aramsogo

This is one lame thread. China has zero need nor interest in Indian territory. It can get everything it needs from Africa and Australia using soft power and huge currency reserves. Tibet is a Chinese buffer zone for a reason. India should build high speed rail and power plants before war machines.


----------



## Tumba

Aramsogo said:


> This is one lame thread. China has zero need nor interest in Indian territory. It can get everything it needs from Africa and Australia using soft power and huge currency reserves. Tibet is a Chinese buffer zone for a reason. India should build high speed rail and power plants before war machines.


wat abt chinese claim of arunachal??? and military support of pakistan ???


----------



## faithfulguy

Tumba said:


> wat abt chinese claim of arunachal??? and military support of pakistan ???



Do you admire Hong Wu so much that you want to be like him?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Last Hope

Masterchief said:


> @last hope: aaargh... How many times have you guys been told not to use the word 'bharti'. Btw check the whole thread, not a single indian has sided with tumba, we all have critisised it.



I dont know, the word is formaly used in our language, but thats nt the topic.
f someone is trolling, you have to ignore him.


----------



## ChinaToday

faithfulguy said:


> Do you admire Hong Wu so much that you want to be like him?



Hong wu thread is original he is just a copy cat and bad at it too, he should learn from the chinese....lol


----------



## boris

Aramsogo said:


> This is one lame thread. China has zero need nor interest in Indian territory. It can get everything it needs from Africa and Australia using soft power and huge currency reserves. Tibet is a Chinese buffer zone for a reason. India should build high speed rail and power plants before war machines.



i agree to this china has soft power to avert large scale confrotation with anyone


----------



## kingdurgaking

CardSharp said:


> I reported both threads. Oh well.



do you think there will be any effect in closing this thread?? but i like the threads which are getting trolled?? dont you think it is not funny


----------



## Elmo

Thread closed for moderation.


----------



## HongWu

Chinese-Dragon said:


> No answers to this post?
> 
> Maybe someone wants to make another prediction?


The answer is pretty simple. The Indians will do another "forward policy" on Tibet when China is in a crisis situation against USA over Korean peninsula, Diaoyutai or Taiwan. Their strategy is to force China into a two-front war.

But first, they need to deploy more troops and more supplies to the Eastern Sector to fight China. The entire Indian Army is in the process of redeployment to put maximum pressure on China. I expect this process to be mostly completed by summer 2011.

India might also want delivery of MMRCA, M-777 and Apache before going to war against China. These should be delivered by 2015.

So, India will have completed its preparation for war against China by summer 2011 at the earliest and 2015 at the latest.

There is also political perspective. The current PM Singh is probably the single most anti-China PM India has ever had, because PM Singh is extremely pro-USA. He might step down by 2014. So the risk of war will decrease slightly after he steps down.

Obama already had a meeting with Hu Jintao, so for now a war in 2011 between China and USA or its ally is not as likely. 

So the highest risk would be if a more belligerent USA president assumes office in January 2013 while PM Singh is still in power. Then USA would greatly accelerate its deliver of weapons to India and India will be fully armed for war against China by late 2013 to 2014!

It would be very advantageous for China to have the J-20 ready by that time to participate in China's superpower party  the quick and decisive defeat of India in the Southwest and then USA allies in the East.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Elmo

Thread closed for moderation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------

