# Gates warns China not to underestimate US power



## Lankan Ranger

*Gates warns China not to underestimate US power*

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has signalled his concern over China's rapid military modernisation.

His move is highlighted by the latest picture of a Chinese stealth bomber, as he begins talks aimed at repairing security relations in Beijing today.

*But Dr Gates warned China not to underestimate the US or the continuing power of its military.
*
"I've watched this sort of cyclical view of American decline come around two or three times, perhaps most dramatically in the latter half of the 1970s," Dr Gates told reporters en route to China.

"And my general line for those both at home and around the world who think the US is in decline is that history's dustbins are filled with countries that underestimated the resilience of the United States."

This week's discussions, which will include President Hu Jintao, signal an end to an 11-month hiatus in military-to-military relations between China and the US after the $US6.5 billion US sale of arms to Taiwan last February. They come amid mounting evidence Beijing's arms spending spree is paying dividends.

As well as the stealth plane, Washington is worried about China's plans for a groundbreaking anti-aircraft-carrier missile as well as longer-term plans for its own aircraft carriers.

"We've been watching these developments all along," Dr Gates said. "I've been concerned about the development of the anti-ship cruise and ballistic missiles ever since I took this job.

"We knew they were working on a stealth aircraft. I think what we've seen is they may be somewhat further ahead in the development of that aircraft than our intelligence had earlier predicted.

"They have the potential to put some of our capabilities at risk."

Still, he questioned "just how stealthy" the aircraft would be.

China believes the US is not ready to accept another strong military power, especially in the Asia-Pacific. The leaking of the stealth fighter photos has been seen as intentional.

"Whether the reported new weapons are true or not, in the long run China will own first-class weapons that are capable of competing with the US war machine," Communist Party-run nationalist tabloid Global Times said in an editorial last week

"Apparently the US is not ready to treat China as a major power. They cannot accept the fact that China will . . . possess a first-class military. They are too used to the old power structure."

In both countries, civilian governments have to battle with their military machines. Chinese generals regularly emerge in the media advocating more aggressive policies. Dr Gates has reached a compromise to cut $US78 billion ($78.5bn) from his defence budget -- the biggest cut in decades -- as the Obama administration searches for ways to reduce its massive deficit.

Gates warns China not to underestimate US power | The Australian


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## Luftwaffe

*But Dr Gates warned China not to underestimate the US or the continuing power of its military.*

And why is Mr. gates looking for special attention..


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## PRACTICAL PATRIOT

so now superpower is also feeling underestimated??lol
that too when entire world has seen them continuously in war.


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## ChinaRocks

now america is worried good to know


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## akinkhoo

we might have *misunderestimated *US... 



really when you feel insecure with people underestimating you, something is wrong...

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## ChinaRocks

alpha proton said:


> wtf India have to do with this,this is all about U.S and China,go fight and kill each other,non of our concern,we have our own issue's and have no time to waste about what U.S think about China or what china think about U.S.



Well the reason is simple for being an ally of america ,master of back stabbing india will be in our mind if china going to have a war with america, we must first taking care of this little irritant country called india.

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## siegecrossbow

I don't think China, or any other country for that matter, ever underestimated the United States.

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## webber

so he gets mad and told us not to underestimate them and to cut defence *at the same time *

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## razgriz19

shouldn't that be opposite?????


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## gowthamraj

ChinaRocks said:


> Well the reason is simple for being an ally of america ,master of back stabbing india will be in our mind if china going to have a war with america, we must first taking care of this little irritant country called india.


^ then there you see an end


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## RazPaK

US blowing hot air. Don't worry chinese friends, every animal likes to flex it's muscles once in a while and runaway, even in the animal kingdom.


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## Assange

China thinks it can teach lesson to everyone it wants

but one day someone will teach China a lesson for sure

Waiting for that day

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## Speeder 2

webber said:


> so he gets mad and told us not to underestimate them and to cut defence *at the same time *



 

1. a guy goes to his bank with a big stick in his hand ; 

2. He tells his bank manager not to underestimate him when he asks for a loan, waving his stick at the counter of course;  

3. If that is not comical enough, he then demands his bank manager to cut the security guards of the entrance; 

4. he wants the bank to make its security measures more transparent to the public ... like publish 9 digits security code of the bank vault or sth like that ? 

Hilarious!

What else could a reasonable bank manager tell him then ? 

"Go f*** yourself ! "

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## gpit

I guess Mr. Gates is a little bit funny in his logic here: if China were underestimating USA, why would it build J20, DF-21, ...etc.?

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## CardSharp

webber said:


> so he gets mad and told us not to underestimate them and to cut defence *at the same time *



He says that all that for appearance sake, he knows what he says can't really affect Chinese policy either way.

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## gpit

Assange said:


> China thinks it can teach lesson to everyone it wants
> 
> but one day someone will teach China a lesson for sure
> 
> Waiting for that day



Looks like that it is *you* who think you can teach a lesson to anyone.

Regardless, thank for you patience. And *don't ever* attempt to think you control karma.

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## AR

Assange said:


> China thinks it can teach lesson to everyone it wants
> 
> but one day someone will teach China a lesson for sure
> 
> Waiting for that day



@assange.. please post a thread on member introduction thread


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## Chinese-Dragon

Blast said:


> China overestimates it self.
> Now australia also says itself.
> China...grow up...
> China may overestimate strength - Australian leak
> New Ledger Overestimating Chinese Power, And The State Of Sino-American Relations
> Don't overestimate China's economy
> 
> The Daily Herald -China may overestimate strength-Australian leak
> *Grow up China,grow up!*



More Indian trolls on China defence section.

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## ChinaRocks

Assange said:


> China thinks it can teach lesson to everyone it wants
> 
> but one day someone will teach China a lesson for sure
> 
> Waiting for that day



ya waiting is the only thing india is good at . waiting to over take china in 2020 and waiting to overtake china in 2025 ......waiting hmmmmm.......still waiting...........

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## A1Kaid

Nice job Mr. Gates you tell those Chinese...

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## Speeder 2

ChinaRocks said:


> ya waiting is the only thing india is good at . waiting to over take china in 2020 and waiting to overtake china in 2025 ......waiting hmmmmm.......still waiting...........




* "in the next five years people would forget about Shanghai and Mumbai will become a talking point."* ----- Oct 2004, Manmohan Singh, India PM

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## AR

Speeder 2 said:


> * "in the next five years people would forget about Shanghai and Mumbai will become a talking point."* ----- Oct 2004, Manmohan Singh, India PM



was'nt that true... come on dear.... laughing can't help you out... everyone talks more about mumbai than shangai now.....
now dont say I am joking...... you itself are joking


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## graphican

Thats called Desperateness. Some countries who do not like China reaching high are getting more desperate every passing day. But what they are doing is the best they can do.. "Cry louder".

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## Chinese-Dragon

A.R.. said:


> *was'nt that true... come on dear.... laughing can't help you out... everyone talks more about mumbai than shangai now.....*



You must be joking...

I typed "Shanghai" and "Mumbai" into Google, and got an image from the *first page* of each web result.

Shanghai:






Mumbai:

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## siegecrossbow

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You must be joking...
> 
> I typed "Shanghai" and "Mumbai" into Google, and got an image from the *first page* of each web result.
> 
> Shanghai:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mumbai:



Watch, he'll just say that at least the people living in the slums are happier since they live in a Democratic Country.

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## Speeder 2

A.R.. said:


> laughing can't help you out... everyone talks more about mumbai than shangai now.....
> now dont say I am joking...... you itself are joking



Neither you nor I am joking, but Manmohan Singh has been 

He's kinda of right though... Slumdog Millionaire , anyone?

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## Chinese-Dragon

Speeder 2 said:


> He's kinda of right though... Slumdog Millionaire , anyone?



I don't think that is the kind of publicity that they wanted.

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## AR

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You must be joking...
> 
> I typed "Shanghai" and "Mumbai" into Google, and got an image from the *first page* of each web result.
> 
> Shanghai:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mumbai:



are you a fool or what  ... I said they talk more about mumbai... that dosent mean mumbai is better....
world leaders are approaching mumbai despite gliter of shanghai


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## DESERT FIGHTER

BULLSHYT!!! Thread heading!

Gates is going there to defuse the tensions not create em!!

http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&s...1ITIDA&usg=AFQjCNHHxbIxiT_aQffAbsNO1JRTDmONVg

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 PM ----------

BULLSHYT!!! Thread heading!

Gates is going there to defuse the tensions not create em!!

Gates hopes to defuse tension on China trip | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM

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## CardSharp

A.R.. said:


> are you a fool or what  ... I said they talk more about mumbai... that dosent mean mumbai is better....
> world leaders are approaching mumbai despite gliter of shanghai



You're the only fool here. You can claim whatever you like for Mumbai but let's do a quick experiment using Google Labs&#8217; Books NGram Viewer (http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/info). It is a program that tracks the number of times a word was published, which would satisfy your criteria of being "talked about" right? 

I put in Shanghai, Mumbai to compare the number of times these words were published. 

http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?...start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=1

Don't you people ever get tired of claim this India rising BS?

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## AR

CardSharp said:


> You're the only fool here. You can claim whatever you like for Mumbai but let's do a quick experiment using Google Labs Books NGram Viewer (Google Ngram Viewer). It is a program that tracks the number of times a word was published, which would satisfy your criteria of being "talked about" right?
> 
> I put in Shanghai, Mumbai to compare the number of times these words were published.
> 
> Google Ngram Viewer
> 
> Don't you people ever get tired of claim this India rising BS?



again countering another fool.... do you even have any idea what we are talking about... or just wanna poke ur nose..... talk about the year which comes 5 years after 2004-2005 and not of 19th century


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## CardSharp

A.R.. said:


> again countering another fool.... do you even have any idea what we are talking about... or just wanna poke ur nose..... talk about the year which comes 5 years after 2004-2005 and not of 19th century



You could have adjusted the date from 2008 to 2010 yourself. I just left it at the default. I can't really believe even you are that stupid, so I must assume that you are being deliberately obtuse to preserve whatever little credibility your statement had. 

Google Ngram Viewer

New link filtering from 1990 to 2010.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You must be joking...
> 
> I typed "Shanghai" and "Mumbai" into Google, and got an image from the *first page* of each web result.
> 
> Shanghai:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mumbai:



Karachi:






P.S=Is the mumbai pic real or P.S?

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## AR

CardSharp said:


> You could have adjusted the date from 2008 to 2010 yourself. I just left it at the default. I can't really believe even you are that stupid, so I must assume that you are being deliberately obtuse to perverse whatever little credibility your statement had.
> 
> Google Ngram Viewer
> 
> New link filtering from 1990 to 2010.



oh really your maths, 2005+5=1990, great
however, its not showing exactly 2010 even I m ready to consider 2008..... you can project to 2010
here is your own link...
Google Ngram Viewer

and most important add the results of "Mumbai" and "Bombay"


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## anon45

webber said:


> so he gets mad and told us not to underestimate them and to cut defence *at the same time *



People who see a prototype stealth jet that hasn't yet flown and an antiship missile that hasnt been tested in its intended environment yet as the end of the US military as a potential threat to China are underestimating the US military.

People who see troubles with insurgency in Afghanistan as an indicator that the US military cannot take on professional armies are underestimating the US military, and do not have a clear understanding of the differences in both types of conflict.

Cuts in defence do not necessarily translate to less of a reach in the East Asia region, where Air and Naval primacy are likely to dominate with the potential flashpoints. 

Finally all said and done, the US wont be leaving the Pacific for the reason that it borders it. We will always be there in one way or another, unlike the British who are smack in the Atlantic.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Karachi:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S=Is the mumbai pic real or P.S?



Like I said, I got the pictures from the first page of Google results.

Karachi looks beautiful by the way.

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## CardSharp

A.R.. said:


> oh really your maths, 2005+5=1990, great
> however, its not showing exactly 2010 even I m ready to consider 2008..... you can project to 2010
> here is your own link...
> Google Ngram Viewer
> 
> and most important add the results of "Mumbai" and "Bombay"



Maybe the concept of a range ie 1990-2010 is beyond you I don't know (Math? 2005+5=1990? wtf are you on about?). The whole premise of you bragging about Mumbai is that it is a new financial center that is over taking Shanghai but realize that when people write about modern India and India in financial they'll use Mumbai not Bombay. 


Anyways, moot point, Indians publish in British English and given the propensity of Indians to talk about themselve and how great they are, a good portion of the British English publications will probably be from India. 

Compare British English 2005-2010 

Google Ngram Viewer

Compare Ameircan English 2005-2010 

Google Ngram Viewer

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## AR

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Karachi:
> 
> 
> P.S=Is the mumbai pic real or P.S?



here are the pics of mumbai





selected buildings of mumbai


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## CardSharp

I'm sure these are filled with Photoshop millionaires too right?

Incidently, a google image search for Mumbai returned mostly pictures of the 11/26 attacks.

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## AR

CardSharp said:


> I'm sure these are filled with Photoshop millionaires too right?
> 
> Incidently, a google image search returned mostly pictures of the 11/26 attacks.



these buildings are scattered all over mumbai including navi-mumbai
however there are tagged in single photo by that software


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## CardSharp

A.R.. said:


> these buildings are scattered all over mumbai including navi-mumbai
> however there are tagged in single photo by that software



Photo? Those are a collection of developer concept drawings. Man you are stupid.

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## Chinese-Dragon

CardSharp said:


> Photo? *Those are a collection of developer concept drawings.* Man you are stupid.



LOL that is hilarious!

Shouldn't it be immediately obvious that those are "concept drawings" and not actual photos...

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## AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer

Thanks a lot mates! Thanks for your great appreciation regarding Mumbai, India..
Lets get back to the topic ok .. No doubt China is big power with a Dynamic & powerfull economy. I am really admire with your great Nation (China) especially Chinese hard working skills.

To my understanding Americans they're getting frustrated with China rise.Lets wait and see the beijing reaction..

regards
Jailer

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## BATMAN

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> BULLSHYT!!! Thread heading!
> 
> Gates is going there to defuse the tensions not create em!!
> 
> www.dawn.com - Security Verification
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 PM ----------
> 
> BULLSHYT!!! Thread heading!
> 
> Gates is going there to defuse the tensions not create em!!
> 
> Gates hopes to defuse tension on China trip | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM



I guess US have about 40K troops in Pacific and is planning to add 10k more.
I wonder how it will help diffusing the soreness.

Any how the timming of such statement certainly sound desperateness over some thing which is all over US news:





Guess what; if some one even tried to tell those westerners that China is building war planes they would simply refuse to believe.

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## below_freezing

We are absolutely safe then. The US never tells the countries it invades to "not underestimate" it. It always says, like to Iraq, how they are a huge powerful threat to humanity, how they support nuclear weapons, terrorism, homosexuality, pornography, witchcraft and Nazis at the same time, and the leader is a secret **** fan, and everyone in the country loves McDonalds and Burger King and is just waiting for some whites to bring the joy of fat to them.

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## Speeder 2

A.R.. said:


> here are the pics of mumbai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....




*Pau..Pauleeeeeez ! 

Mumbai, come to Mama! ------>>> * 





















*Cilck on the Yellow Bar:*

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## Speeder 2

China should take Gates to Chengdu to see the maiden flight of J-20! 

Seriously!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Peking looks kewl.

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## CardSharp

Anti-Japanese sentiment can get pretty ridiculous at times. Shanghai World Financial Center would have looked much better if the hole at the top was a circle instead of a square. Now it just looks like a giant bottle opener.

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## Speeder 2

CardSharp said:


> Anti-Japanese sentiment can get pretty ridiculous at times. Shanghai World Financial Center would have looked much better if the hole at the top was a circle instead of a square. Now it just looks like a giant bottle opener.



Nice to know, TX!

OK, a bit off topic here:

I just watched a mini series of travel clips in youtube on Shanghai ( made by some Spanish travel agencies), in which they were showed SH WTC observation deck by the spokeman of a Japanese company which designed the building. The Japanese guy said ( he spoke rather understandable English there - a bit surreal for a Japanese  ) that it's his company's view that Shanghai has already become THE center of all East Asia economic acitivities...

Actually, China's anti-Japanese sentiments have been partiallyfueld up by CPC , IMO. I know some shanghainese here in europe who were amongt the first waves of Chinese studs studying/working in Japan on their own at earlier 80s. They've been living in Tokyo for at least 2 decades...one of them intergrated into the society so well that he has a very close connection to Japanese mafia in Tokyo  well, he told me that most Japanese actually don't hate or despise Chinese ( of course thre are always some ultra right and many govt politicians who do; but so do in any other countries) ; they are afraid of communism instead, and as people they despise Koreans mostly  . Some family friends of mine from Taiwan and HK who studied/worked in Japan extensively told me the similar thing. I think China needs to reconcile with Japan sooner rather than later in order to forge a stronger and better tomorrow for East Asia. If Japan were on CHina's side, no way the US could control the west pacific.


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## flameboard

CardSharp said:


> Anti-Japanese sentiment can get pretty ridiculous at times. Shanghai World Financial Center would have looked much better if the hole at the top was a circle instead of a square. Now it just looks like a giant bottle opener.




That building design is very common for some reason there one like that in Saudi Arabia, UAE.

But yeah it totally looks like a bottle opener.


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## below_freezing

Speeder 2 said:


> Nice to know, TX!
> 
> OK, a bit off topic here:
> 
> I just watched a mini series of travel clips in youtube on Shanghai ( made by some Spanish travel agencies), in which they were showed SH WTC observation deck by the spokeman of a Japanese company which designed the building. The Japanese guy said ( he spoke rather understandable English there - a bit surreal for a Japanese  ) that it's his company's view that Shanghai has already become THE center of all East Asia economic acitivities...
> 
> Actually, China's anti-Japanese sentiments have been partiallyfueld up by CPC , IMO. I know some shanghainese here in europe who were amongt the first waves of Chinese studs studying/working in Japan on their own at earlier 80s. They've been living in Tokyo for at least 2 decades...one of them intergrated into the society so well that he has a very close connection to Japanese mafia in Tokyo  well, he told me that most Japanese actually don't hate or despise Chinese ( of course thre are always some ultra right and many govt politicians who do; but so do in any other countries) ; they are afraid of communism instead, and as people they despise Koreans mostly  . Some family friends of mine from Taiwan and HK who studied/worked in Japan extensively told me the similar thing. I think China needs to reconcile with Japan sooner rather than later in order to forge a stronger and better tomorrow for East Asia. If Japan were on CHina's side, no way the US could control the west pacific.



Sorry that's bullshit. They're not afraid of communism at all. They're practically licking the Russian's boots. They licked USSR boots in cold war and they're still licking them today. What happened when Mendelev stepped on northern islands? Nothing. Russians slapped them in the face and they said thanks. They aren't even "afraid" of china, they're spitting in our face, stealing our land and resources, is that what you do to someone that you're afraid of? CPC is scared of anti japanese sentiment, sh*t, it's the CPC holding us back.


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## gpit

A.R.. said:


> here are the pics of mumbai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



AR, are you sure this is Mumbai? 

LOL! Thought your IQ would help you find a better way in boosting your ego. *Seriously!*



> Gate Tower Building - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia *in Fukushima-ku, Osaka, Japan.*



My 2 cents: 

a) stop being incredible, start being credible.

b) internet is good for polishing something shinning, but it is also deadly in busting fakers. Copy/paste never works this way.  Learn from the Chinese in a better way.

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## Badabing

Assange said:


> China thinks it can teach lesson to everyone it wants
> 
> but one day someone will teach China a lesson for sure
> 
> Waiting for that day



China has learned many a lesson throughout her history but none more drastic and painful than the ones during past 150 years. What has Tibet learned? 

You should be thankful that China has poured in 45 billion RMB and more to come to eradicate your immoral Clergy Serfdom system and build up the region's economy to improve living standards.

You should be thankful that the Tibetan Bon Buddhist Army that sacked the Chinese capital Chang'an in 673AD after many tries couldn't hold it so Tibetans didn't get a chance to rule China for a few hundred years.

I bet you would have love that wouldn't you. If you feel that way then go ask the Manchurians who did conquer and rule China for over three centuries and see how they feel about it. 

Want to guess how many in China who can still speak or write Manchurian now? Less than a 100, not 100 million, not 100,000 but less than 99. Your inept Bon Buddhist Army's failure long ago saved your people from being conformed into the Chinese culture but also extended your tradition of Serfdom for another 13 centuries until 1950. 

Want to pick your poison? 

BTW, I am in favor of keeping all that's glorious of the Tibetan culture and there is vast amount of that but please come out of the theocracy already. It's old stuff. Being part of China is not so bad, ask the Mongolians, they have done well in their Autonomous Region, way better than their cousins across the border.

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## Speeder 2

below_freezing said:


> Sorry that's bullshit. They're not afraid of communism at all. They're practically licking the Russian's boots. They licked USSR boots in cold war and they're still licking them today. What happened when Mendelev stepped on northern islands? Nothing. Russians slapped them in the face and they said thanks. They aren't even "afraid" of china, they're spitting in our face, stealing our land and resources, is that what you do to someone that you're afraid of? CPC is scared of anti japanese sentiment, sh*t, it's the CPC holding us back.



ok, ok, ok...Don't shoot! I, surrender!

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## Speeder 2

gpit said:


> AR, are you sure this is Mumbai?
> 
> LOL! Thought your IQ would help you find a better way in boosting your ego. *Seriously!*
> 
> 
> 
> My 2 cents:
> 
> a) stop being incredible, start being credible.
> 
> b) internet is good for polishing something shinning, but it is also deadly in busting fakers. Copy/paste never works this way.  Learn from the Chinese in a better way.



so in the end I was comparing Shanghai with Osaka...

I have to admit though, that I was wondering since when Mumbai was so different now from that of Slumdog Millionaire?  

nonetheless, is that Osaka? 

man, they definitely need to hire a stylist!

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## Akasa

If China was underestimating the US, then the PLAAF wouldn't be building stuff like J-20, H-8, and the Navy wouldn't be building the Type 096.

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## cross1993

China does not underestimate the power of the US.
Away from the Yellow Sea.

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## lcloo

China never underestimate USA, these words came from Gate's mouth. 

Also Gate resorting to such words showed that he is getting frustrtated with a rising China, and worry about the future where US navy may not be able to roam Asian waters as free as it wish. I think his is getting less bargaining chip trying to force a deal with China.

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## BigTree.CN

Assange said:


> China thinks it can teach lesson to everyone it wants
> 
> but one day someone will teach China a lesson for sure
> 
> Waiting for that day



Lucky us "someone" definitely won't be you.

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## CardSharp

lcloo said:


> China never underestimate USA, these words came from Gate's mouth.
> 
> Also Gate resorting to such words showed that he is getting frustrtated with a rising China, and worry about the future where US navy may not be able to roam Asian waters as free as it wish. I think his is getting less bargaining chip trying to force a deal with China.



I can understand where Gates is coming from and I actually don't think he is the sabre rattling sort.

He is in charge of a military that needs to be cut and cut deeply, that along with winding down operations in Afg+Irq, this is his mandate. In order to accomplish this, he has to convince his own country and his own military that cutting the military would be a safe thing to do. By making a statement like don't under-estimate the US, he is essentially trying to dampen down resistance in the military itself with a show of strength to potential challengers to its military hegemony. 

I for one would not be sorry to see China pay lip service to his rhetoric, but the I doubt the Chinese people can convinced to give moral ground to the US.

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## webber

anon45 said:


> People who see a prototype stealth jet that hasn't yet flown and an antiship missile that hasnt been tested in its intended environment yet as the end of the US military as a potential threat to China are underestimating the US military.
> 
> People who see troubles with insurgency in Afghanistan as an indicator that the US military cannot take on professional armies are underestimating the US military, and do not have a clear understanding of the differences in both types of conflict.
> 
> Cuts in defence do not necessarily translate to less of a reach in the East Asia region, where Air and Naval primacy are likely to dominate with the potential flashpoints.
> 
> Finally all said and done, the US wont be leaving the Pacific for the reason that it borders it. We will always be there in one way or another, unlike the British who are smack in the Atlantic.





easy, he ask China to cut defence

you ruined the jokes here

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## Dragon Emperor

Chinese people will never forget the humiliation of 1996-1997, when US aircraft carrier sailed along the Taiwan Strait just near Chinese mainland coast. Robert Gates rhetoric clearly shows that for a long time they want to bully China. The USA is alarmed at China? Empty words. China has to have a military as powerful as the US, since that is China's responsibility to its people to have a military proportionate to its economic power. It is China that should be alarmed at US military buildup, not the other way around. To counter US threat, China needs, in my opinion, 1200+ stealth fighters and 25+ nuclear subs by 2030.

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## BigTree.CN

How could we underestimate US after she bombed Chinese embassy in 1999 and got away without even an apology?

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## cross1993

Do not underestimate the concession does not mean.
Close to the Yellow Sea from our home, like North Korea in 1950.

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## ZhengHe

The US is full of bullshit anyway and as always. I don't see anyone else complaining about China strengthening their own capabilities like any sovereign nation should. 

If anyone should be afraid it is Japan, and for good reason.

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## pzkilo

gpit said:


> AR, are you sure this is Mumbai?
> 
> LOL! Thought your IQ would help you find a better way in boosting your ego. *Seriously!*
> 
> 
> 
> My 2 cents:
> 
> a) stop being incredible, start being credible.
> 
> b) internet is good for polishing something shinning, but it is also deadly in busting fakers. Copy/paste never works this way.  Learn from the Chinese in a better way.



hahahaha


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## pzkilo

Dragon Emperor said:


> Chinese people will never forget the humiliation of 1996-1997, when US aircraft carrier sailed along the Taiwan Strait just near Chinese mainland coast. Robert Gates rhetoric clearly shows that for a long time they want to bully China. The USA is alarmed at China? Empty words. China has to have a military as powerful as the US, since that is China's responsibility to its people to have a military proportionate to its economic power. It is China that should be alarmed at US military buildup, not the other way around. To counter US threat, China needs, in my opinion, 1200+ stealth fighters and 25+ nuclear subs by 2030.



Everytime, I remind this stuff...I...Mothafucka.

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## Preach peace

ChinaRocks said:


> Well the reason is simple for being an ally of america ,master of back stabbing india will be in our mind if china going to have a war with america, we must first taking care of this little irritant country called india.




And ur so called ***** country China , where no right of freedom , & neither to open up with the world , have a sweet honeymoon with ur friends & Njoy , U r the masters of the world think so , & many would 
Dilute U .. But Need for peace in world which hopes continues in this world , let u be the masters or US .......


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## houshanghai

http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XMjM1OTk5NTUy/v.swf


----------



## houshanghai

http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XMjM1OTY3MjQ0/v.swf


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## chengdusudise

so, did Gates means we should deploy more J-20,095,052c,T-99,etc, to let them know we do not underestimate them?

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## NmHqh2JbVo

As I understand it, US don't have much black liquid that China needs.

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## damiendehorn

a) stop being incredible, start being credible.

Man thats the quote of the year!

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## anon45

Dragon Emperor said:


> Chinese people will never forget the humiliation of 1996-1997, when US aircraft carrier sailed along the Taiwan Strait just near Chinese mainland coast. Robert Gates rhetoric clearly shows that for a long time they want to bully China. The USA is alarmed at China? Empty words. China has to have a military as powerful as the US, since that is China's responsibility to its people to have a military proportionate to its economic power. It is China that should be alarmed at US military buildup, not the other way around. To counter US threat, China needs, in my opinion, 1200+ stealth fighters and 25+ nuclear subs by 2030.



Holding that grudge will be China's downfall. A country that hold's grudges against former enemies is not a country that can do the world good.

As for bullying, BS! China wants to bully the US into abandoning its allies, and bully other countrys into giving up their maritime territory right up to their beaches! 

China may have a responsibility to its people, but the US has a responsibility to the people of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, etc. as their allies. We will defend them against any aggressive moves from China. We will also ensure our own, and all the world's, unimpeded access to international waters as defined by the UN at this point.

When war starts most of those stealth jets will be destroyed by cruise missiles on the airstrips before they can even take off!



If China wants to start an arms race in the region be my guest, when Taiwan and Japan have nukes enough to destroy China's East Coast to back their power then we will see how China's objectives are achieved and how its people are more secure from their arms buildup.

When war starts most of those stealth jets will be destroyed by cruise missiles on the airstrips before they can even take off!


China should focus on a peaceful rise within US patrolled seas, peaceful in all aspects, like Japan did, a perfect example of a peaceful rise.

Their people would be safer, their prosperity would be greater, there would be no reason to suspect their intentions. Sad to see their people have lost this wisdom despite the much vaunted two millenia of history. Well the PRC itself has lasted less than 100.


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## Chinese-Dragon

anon45 said:


> China should focus on a *peaceful rise* within US patrolled seas, peaceful in all aspects, like Japan did, a perfect example of a peaceful rise.
> 
> Their people would be safer, their prosperity would be greater, there would be no reason to suspect their intentions. Sad to see their people have lost this wisdom despite the much vaunted two millenia of history. Well the PRC itself has lasted less than 100.



That is funny. 

How many wars has America started in the past ten years?

How many wars has China started in the past ten years?

I suppose it's a natural human emotion to be worried about a rising power, but we're not the ones declaring war all over the world.

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## cloneman

Yanks begin to talk about arm race,lol.


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## gambit

Chinese-Dragon said:


> That is funny.
> 
> How many wars has America started in the past ten years?
> 
> How many wars has China started in the past ten years?
> 
> I suppose it's a natural human emotion to be worried about a rising power, but we're not the ones declaring war all over the world.


Considering the Iraq war benefit China quite well, may be China should be grateful, no?


----------



## below_freezing

anon45 said:


> Holding that grudge will be China's downfall. A country that hold's grudges against former enemies is not a country that can do the world good.
> 
> As for bullying, BS! China wants to bully the US into abandoning its allies, and bully other countrys into giving up their maritime territory right up to their beaches!
> 
> China may have a responsibility to its people, but the US has a responsibility to the people of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, etc. as their allies. We will defend them against any aggressive moves from China. We will also ensure our own, and all the world's, unimpeded access to international waters as defined by the UN at this point.
> 
> When war starts most of those stealth jets will be destroyed by cruise missiles on the airstrips before they can even take off!
> 
> 
> 
> If China wants to start an arms race in the region be my guest, when Taiwan and Japan have nukes enough to destroy China's East Coast to back their power then we will see how China's objectives are achieved and how its people are more secure from their arms buildup.
> 
> When war starts most of those stealth jets will be destroyed by cruise missiles on the airstrips before they can even take off!
> 
> 
> China should focus on a peaceful rise within US patrolled seas, peaceful in all aspects, like Japan did, a perfect example of a peaceful rise.
> 
> Their people would be safer, their prosperity would be greater, there would be no reason to suspect their intentions. Sad to see their people have lost this wisdom despite the much vaunted two millenia of history. Well the PRC itself has lasted less than 100.



Peace, defined by the US: Everyone listens to me, so there is peace. However the US started more wars than any other country! Invoking the UN? What a joke! The US ignored UN resolutions regarding Iraq, it doesn't have any voice in the UN. Why should we do anything the US says? If you have the guts, force us to, but that's not your decision, that's Obongo's, and Obongo knows "what's up". That's the great part about the US. the top elite 1% make all the decisions and they can manipulate the masses like nothing, nothing the people say really matters.

Not underestimating the US though. That's why we need 10000 nuclear weapons, because we aren't underestimating you.

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## gambit

below_freezing said:


> Peace, defined by the US: Everyone listens to me, so there is peace. However the US started more wars than any other country! Invoking the UN? What a joke! The US ignored UN resolutions regarding Iraq, it doesn't have any voice in the UN. Why should we do anything the US says? If you have the guts, force us to, but that's not your decision, that's Obongo's, and Obongo knows "what's up". That's the great part about the US. the top elite 1% make all the decisions and they can manipulate the masses like nothing, nothing the people say really matters.
> 
> Not underestimating the US though. That's why we need 10000 nuclear weapons, because we aren't underestimating you.


Since China is a member of the UN Security Council, any problems from this council regarding international security issues China shares part of the blame. Like how China received 'vouchers' and kickbacks from Saddam Hussein during the oil-for-food scandal. So yes, the UN is a joke and all members are clowns in this circus.


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## topjumper

gambit said:


> Considering the Iraq war benefit China quite well, may be China should be grateful, no?



Oh yeah, the Iraq war costed the US quite dearly and set back its international image so China wouldn't complain on that front, but China doesn't need to be thankful for the US invasion though -- if you do business with cash and no questions asked, I don't think Sadam's government would have had any objections to doing business with China, in fact against all the US led sanctions doing business with the Chinese might be Sadam's only few choices for better or worse.

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## AerospaceEngineer

gpit said:


> AR, are you sure this is Mumbai?
> 
> LOL! Thought your IQ would help you find a better way in boosting your ego. *Seriously!*
> 
> 
> 
> My 2 cents:
> 
> a) stop being incredible, start being credible.
> 
> b) internet is good for polishing something shinning, but it is also deadly in busting fakers. Copy/paste never works this way.  Learn from the Chinese in a better way.





Greet One Buddy, see how far the Indians are willing to go?


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

damiendehorn said:


> a) stop being incredible, start being credible.
> 
> Man thats the quote of the year!





But Indians are incredible, Incredible india hard to be credible.

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## AerospaceEngineer

cloneman said:


> Yanks begin to talk about arm race,lol.





Even the current US enconomy is bad, but eventually it will rebound. What worry me the most is the 15 trillion debt. How can US pay it back.

US can still finice its military thro bororrowing, and printng money. Even selling more arms world wide.


----------



## AerospaceEngineer

gambit said:


> Considering the Iraq war benefit China quite well, may be China should be grateful, no?



Yes and no.

Yes because it kep US busy for 7 years and can not manage China.

No because Iraq is devasted and oil production cut back.

US is not total loser from Iraq war because it wiped out a poetential eneomy. Gain much war experience and still control of Iraq.

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## BATMAN

I wonder how China may have looked like, if US had succeeded in imposing their democrazy!


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## ChineseTiger1986

BATMAN said:


> I wonder how China may have looked like, if US had succeeded in imposing their democrazy!



Our country becomes the poorest in Africa is what most Westerners want to see. 

Yeah, die...those low-life dirty chinks!!!!!!

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## gambit

BATMAN said:


> I wonder how China may have looked like, if US had succeeded in imposing their democrazy!


Would look like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

gambit said:


> Would look like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan.



Cut down the BS, we have 1.3 billion people, how can we lift 1 billion of poverty with your democrazy style?

We will have our own democracy in the future, but not your "western democrazy"!!!

Police 'actively pursuing' second person in Tucson shooting - CNN.com

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## below_freezing

gambit said:


> Would look like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan.



Cut the BS, it'll look like Zimbabwe, like in the first 37 years of "democracy". In fact, if I was living in 1920's or 30's RoC, I would envy the people from Zimbabwe.


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## huzihaidao12

gambit &#65292;You really do not know anything about Japan and South Korea, you can go to learn more about their history?

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## godblessamerica

its not letting me post URL's until i make 15 posts. so i'll just summarize the images that would have been here. 



A.R.. said:


> here are the pics of mumbai
> *Osaka Japan goes here*
> 
> selected buildings of mumbai
> 
> *Concept drawings by western architects goes here*




LOOOL This the funniest things ever, this guys tries to show us 'india, so he shows us a photo of a run down place in Osaka japan, and some concept drawings drawn up by western architects and claims them to be real photographs lmao!!!!!

I thought the Chinese were stereotyped for 'copying' westerners. Talk about the pinnacle fraud true slum dog millionaires lmao

ha ha ha ha ha!!!! ONE LINE FOR YOU!

*STOP BEING INCREDIBLE, START BEING CREDIBLE*

OH BTW wasn't slum dog millionaire a Hollywood production? lmao!


----------



## cross1993

We know what justice is.
We know, We can see.

The US not to underestimate the power of justice.

http://player.56.com/v_52037562.swf

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## BigTree.CN

cross1993 said:


> We know what justice is.
> We know, We can see.
> 
> 
> http://player.56.com/v_52037562.swf



Well, this video just managed to make my eyes moist, especially when I watched the part when an Iraqi woman was asking for Allah's help to punish those bastards. 

I just can't help thinking what if all of these were happenning to China, what are we gonna do? 

Sigh, this world must have been cursed since the very first beginning. 

Hope all the Arab people will unite together to drive the invaders out of your lands, and then have a peaceful life.

°¢À­²®¸èÇú£ºÁ¼Öª_ÔÚÏßÊÓÆµ¹Û¿´_ÍÁ¶¹ÍøÊÓÆµ ºÍÆ½ Á¼Öª ÐÖµÜ

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## S10

America cares about democracy. Look how they brought about democracy to Iraq. The way the helped Saddam Hussein into power then toppling him later, masterful.

Or how about Iran? Topple a democratically elected Mossadaeq and installing Shah. Oh it didn't stop there either. Helping to train SAVAK to imprison, torture and assasinate political opponents of the Shah? Damn democracy, you scary!

How about supporting the Contras against the winner of a free election in Nicaguara? Should I mention Batista in Cuba? Propping up that Ngo Dinh Diem dude in Vietnam that came to power in a fraud election? Ooo South Korea's regime before 1980's!

American democracy in action.

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## TalhaBinTariq

For any of my Chinese Brothers:-

Please translate this, so others can read it as well.

"Sorry, the man was drunk, he was not in his senses at that moment when he said those things. You know they are in your debts, literally!!!"


----------



## below_freezing

TalhaBinTariq said:


> For any of my Chinese Brothers:-
> 
> Please translate this, so others can read it as well.
> 
> "Sorry, the man was drunk, he was not in his senses at that moment when he said those things. You know they are in your debts, literally!!!"



nah, he's right, never underestimate the US. we all know the US is the greatest threat to humanity and that is why we are developing carriers, nuclear weapons, stealth fighters, next generation tanks, alternative energy, etc. because we know the US is the most dangerous rogue state in the world.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Don't worry man, in the coming decade we are going to deploy 4 digits number of warheads and 3 digits number of icbm. 

For sure, we are never going to underestimate US even it is suffering from economic crisis.

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## GUNS-N- ROSES

ChinaRocks said:


> Well the reason is simple for being an ally of america ,*master of back stabbing india will be in our mind if china going to have a war with america, we must first taking care of this little irritant country called india.*



YEAH WE INDIANS ARE WAITING FOR THAT.

PERSONALLY I FOUND THAT REMARK TOTALLY OFFENSIVE, ILLOGICAL AND IRRELEVANT.


----------



## godblessamerica

GUNS-N- ROSES said:


> YEAH WE INDIANS ARE WAITING FOR THAT.
> 
> PERSONALLY I FOUND THAT REMARK TOTALLY OFFENSIVE, ILLOGICAL AND IRRELEVANT.



Why do you have an opinion? get back in the shoe factory!


----------



## cross1993

BigTree.CN said:


> Well, this video just managed to make my eyes moist, especially when I watched the part when an Iraqi woman was asking for Allah's help to punish those bastards.
> 
> I just can't help thinking what if all of these were happenning to China, what are we gonna do?
> 
> Sigh, this world must have been cursed since the very first beginning.
> 
> Hope all the Arab people will unite together to drive the invaders out of your lands, and then have a peaceful life.
> 
> &#176;&#162;&#192;&#173;&#178;&#174;&#184;&#232;&#199;&#250;&#163;&#186;&#193;&#188;&#214;&#170;_&#212;&#218;&#207;&#223;&#202;&#211;&#198;&#181;&#185;&#219;&#191;&#180;_&#205;&#193;&#182;&#185;&#205;&#248;&#202;&#211;&#198;&#181; &#186;&#205;&#198;&#189; &#193;&#188;&#214;&#170; &#208;&#214;&#181;&#220;





China's warlords have split the country, before the Japanese invasion.
Japan started the war. All the China's warlords will unite together to drive the invaders out of our lands. China once again become a unified country.

Solidarity and collectivism is the key.


----------



## GUNS-N- ROSES

godblessamerica said:


> Why do you have an opinion? get back in the shoe factory!



YAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNN.

DO U SERIOUSLY WANNA GET BANNED?


----------



## godblessamerica

GUNS-N- ROSES said:


> YAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNN.
> 
> DO U SERIOUSLY WANNA GET BANNED?



do seriously want the NSA and CIA on your *** for making threats towards Americans


----------



## GUNS-N- ROSES

godblessamerica said:


> do seriously want the NSA and CIA on your *** for making threats towards Americans



lol, YES I WOULD REALLY LIKE THAT. BRING IT ON.


----------



## S10

godblessamerica said:


> do seriously want the NSA and CIA on your *** for making threats towards Americans


You seem more of an Americunt than American.


----------



## godblessamerica

S10 said:


> You seem more of an Americunt than American.



you insult me with a technology owned by me using my language? hmm ironic isn't it?

may I add the servers for this website is based in America, show can you even possibly have the nerve to call this site Pakistani?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

godblessamerica said:


> you insult me with a technology owned by me using my language? hmm ironic isn't it?
> 
> may I add the servers for this website is based in America, show can you even possibly have the nerve to call this site Pakistani?



Too bad you are not the exact person who invented it. And having a good journey.

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## gambit

below_freezing said:


> Cut the BS, it'll look like Zimbabwe, like in the first 37 years of "democracy". In fact, if I was living in 1920's or 30's RoC, I would envy the people from Zimbabwe.


Nooo...*YOU* cut the BS. Everywhere communism was imposed, poverty, starvation, and general misery followed. The sorry record is undeniable.


----------



## Tin Man

Maybe this is merely an elaborate ploy to provoke the chinese establishment to act more rash. There was a reasonable parity between the soviet state and america. The same cannot ever be said about china. Perhaps the US is hoping it would give the chinese an incentive to act prematurely and lash out against some of its regional opponents- namely, taiwan, japan, india- thus giving everyone the perfect excuse to push china back to the stone age? In the event of aggression the US can gain the support from the more reclusive
powers to act and coordinate a joint strike. This is just my assumption- please excuse my over active imagination.


----------



## xixi

gambit said:


> Not at all. It is accepted in Asia that the two most racist nations in Asia are the Japanese and the Chinese. Just as Asia suffered under Imperial Japan, the fear now is that a rising China will assert Chinese racialist superiority and probably embroil Asia in another race based war. The behaviors of these boys here are signs of that.



No surprise, brainwashed yankees. Your military men always call us *bad guys*.



gambit said:


> Just as Asia suffered under Imperial Japan.



99&#37; asian victims of Jap Imperialists are Chinese. Now you call us racists when some of us want to revenge? Your country are famous for racists hating asians. You damn USA have prepared many times to kill us all with your H-bombs. Damn yankees will get their just desserts. Get your alien tech F-22s prepared and wait for our lead painted poisoned low quality bombs, *bad guys*.


----------



## xixi

gambit said:


> Nooo...*YOU* cut the BS. Everywhere communism was imposed, poverty, starvation, and general misery followed. The sorry record is undeniable.



Before they became communism they had already been in poverty, starvation, and misery caused by imperialists. And they were just called communism. Can your holy USA washed brain figure out the difference between what it is called and what it is?


----------



## Parashuram1

The statement is quite funny especially when hearing it from Mr. Gates. I was under the impression that the other countries are likely to be underestimated by a ruling superpower. 

It is very crude of him to issue such a statement. Why would an emerging country underestimate an established superpower?


----------



## gpit

gambit said:


> Would look like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan.





gambit said:


> Nooo...*YOU* cut the BS. Everywhere communism was imposed, poverty, starvation, and general misery followed. The sorry record is undeniable.



This high school drop-out has not only obviously failed in his academy, but is also fully brain-washed. He has absolutely no idea what he is raving about: he knows nothing about the history of Korea, Japan, China, even knows nothing about his home country Vietnam. He&#8217;s completely blinded his eyes with acerbic hatred. Poor guy! 

a)	This fool knows nothing about the fact that so called (Soviet type) of communism is rising out of poverty, starvation, and slavery.

I asked his fool: * is Vietnam poorer now than it was before communism?* He finds himself utterly dumb-founded, and pretended not seeing my question.  

I asked his fool: *is Russia poorer now than it was before communism?* He finds himself utterly dumb-founded, and pretended not seeing my question.  

I asked his fool: *is China poorer now than it was before communism?* He finds himself utterly dumb-founded, and pretended not seeing my question.  



b)	This high school drop-out doesn&#8217;t know that *Japan, S Korea are occupied countries*! These countries don&#8217;t have their own say. They have no independent policies. Even if US soldiers rape their women, the criminals cannot be handled by their own judiciary. *What slave countries!* 

Does anyone of you want that type of democracy?

Perhaps he does want Vietnam to be a slave country as such. But he failed his attempt in Vienam War. 

c)	If you are poor country and don&#8217;t want to be a slave country, yet you want to be a democracy country. Yes, there are plenty of examples in Asia: India, the Philippines, Mongolia,&#8230; If China were to be a democratic country, it would be *at the best *another India or the Philippines. 

d)	In fact, the US has more communism elements than communist China. Let&#8217;s quote part of &#8220;The Communist Manifesto&#8221; and make a comparison with what the US has had:

"These measures will, of course, be different in different countries. 

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable. 

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. &#8211; partially realized http://www.nrcm.org/documents/publiclandownership.pdf. Note that AK has 89&#37; land that is publically owned.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. &#8211; fully realized 
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. &#8211; partially realized in the states
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. &#8211; fully realized.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. &#8211; partially realized, spatially after the financial crises. Some are rolled back.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. &#8211; Partially realized. Some transport means are in the hand of state (e.g. New Jersey Transit)
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. &#8211; partially realized
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. &#8211; mostly realized
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. &#8211; mostly realized
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. &#8211; fully realized"

Thus, the US is more communist than China!

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## gambit

gpit said:


> This high school drop-out has not only obviously failed in his academy, but is also fully brain-washed. He has absolutely no idea what he is raving about: he knows nothing about the history of Korea, Japan, China, even knows nothing about his home country Vietnam. Hes completely blinded his eyes with acerbic hatred. Poor guy!
> 
> a)	This fool knows nothing about the fact that so called (Soviet type) of communism is rising out of poverty, starvation, and slavery.
> 
> I asked his fool: *was Vietnam richer now than it was before communism?* He finds himself utterly dumb-founded, and pretended not seeing my question.
> 
> I asked his fool: *was Russia richer now than it was before communism?* He finds himself utterly dumb-founded, and pretended not seeing my question.
> 
> I asked his fool: *was China richer now than it was before communism?* He finds himself utterly dumb-founded, and pretended not seeing my question.


No. I ignored them then because they were stupid questions. Communism is supposed to make everyone equal. No wealth, therefore no poverty. Except that outside of the communist regime, other people were being more wealthy and more prosperous than those living in communist countries. Everywhere communism was imposed, either the country remained backward or behind, never the leader. That is why your questions are stupid.



gpit said:


> Thus, the US is more communist than China!


Good...Then that proved China is inept at communism then and now...


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## gambit

xixi said:


> *Before they became communism they had already been in poverty, starvation, and misery* caused by imperialists. And they were just called communism. Can your holy USA washed brain figure out the difference between what it is called and what it is?


Yeah...And communism prolonged that misery with other imperialists, the communist kind.


----------



## gpit

gambit said:


> No. I ignored them then because they were stupid questions. Communism is supposed to make everyone equal. No wealth, therefore no poverty.



See how erratic your logic is! "Equal" in your abberrative thinking is "no wealth".



> Except that outside of the communist regime, other people were being more wealthy and more prosperous than those living in communist countries. Everywhere communism was imposed, either the country remained backward or behind, never the leader. That is why your questions are stupid.
> 
> 
> ...



Are you saying India is richer than China?  (Sorry to Indians, don't want to drag in India, but it happens to be a convenient example.)

You stand as a human being (not animal) and answer one question for us: A foreign country will ensure your richness. But do you want your country woman be raped by the foreign country&#8217;s soldier and your country&#8217;s judiciary can&#8217;t cover it?

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## gambit

gpit said:


> See how erratic your logic is! "Equal" in your abberrative thinking is "no wealth".


Heck...If am a high school dropout, looks like you never made it past kindergarten. Wealth and poverty are relative. If I cut ten cords of wood, I am wealthier than the man who cut only 5 but poorer than the man who cut 15. Communism is supposed to abolish all of that relativity. Everyone is supposed to contribute to the best of his ability and to take only what he need. Therefore there can be no 'wealth' in this perfect society. No wealth equal to no poverty. And everyone is supposed to be happy.



gpit said:


> Are you saying India is richer than China?


Just to humor you -- Yes. 



gpit said:


> You stand as a human being (not animal) and answer one question for us: A foreign country will ensure your richness. But do you want your country woman be raped by the foreign countrys soldier and your countrys judiciary cant cover it?


You mean when Ho Chi Minh thought it was appropriate that there existed a 'Status Of Forces Agreement' (SOFA) between North Viet Nam and China? Chinese soldiers literally got away with murders, plural, in North Viet Nam, even if when one victim was a woman and proven to be a loyal communist cadre in the fight against France, who knew Ho personally, who appealed to Ho for protection, all to no avail.

Amazon.com: Following Ho Chi Minh: The Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel (9780824822330): Bui Tin: Books

Then I guess the answer is no.

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## gpit

gambit said:


> ...
> Then I guess the answer is no.



So you, Mr. Dropout, essentially mean Chinese soldier rape is not OK but US soldier rape is OK.

Is it because raped by democratic soldiers is morally higher?

BTW, I didn't read the allegation in your propaganda book, which is too rampant here and there are more more interesting ones in bookstore/library.


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## gpit

gambit said:


> .... Wealth and poverty are relative. If I cut ten cords of wood, I am wealthier than the man who cut only 5 but poorer than the man who cut 15. Communism is supposed to abolish all of that relativity. Everyone is supposed to contribute to the best of his ability and to take only what he need. Therefore there can be no 'wealth' in this perfect society. No wealth equal to no poverty. And everyone is supposed to be happy.
> 
> 
> ...



According to this dropout logic, a cave man possesses a stone tool that other cave men don't have is relatively wealthier than a modern man who has a refrigerator or a micro-stove as now nearly everybody has it. 

In other hand, a man with one meal a day in a time when people can only afford one meal every two days is wealthier than the people that all routinely have three meals a day today. 

Perhaps that is the logic he/his family used in trying to "get wealthy" by suppressing his neighbors. No wonder he was eventually finished by commies in Viet. 

What a hilarious logic!


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## anon45

Chinese-Dragon said:


> That is funny.
> 
> How many wars has America started in the past ten years?
> 
> How many wars has China started in the past ten years?
> 
> I suppose it's a natural human emotion to be worried about a rising power, but we're not the ones declaring war all over the world.



Neither is the US declaring war all over the world, unless Saddam and Al Qaeda/ Taliban= whole world.

Meanwhile, how many territorial disputes does China have? How many currently indepently administered tracts of land does China lay claim to?

The US never layed claim to the land of Afghanistan or Iraq. China lays claim to land/water administered by India, Taiwan as a whole, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, Japan, etc.


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## huzihaidao12

anon45 said:


> Neither is the US declaring war all over the world, unless Saddam and Al Qaeda/ Taliban= whole world.
> 
> Meanwhile, how many territorial disputes does China have? How many currently indepently administered tracts of land does China lay claim to?
> 
> The US never layed claim to the land of Afghanistan or Iraq. China lays claim to land/water administered by India, Taiwan as a whole, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, Japan, etc.



You forgot the history of the United States, you've got more than enough territory from neighbors. China only from the territorial issue left over by history, except that Taiwan is part of China and India, to determine all the other problem is the territorial sea, it is a new concept, many countries have this trouble. China is far less than the greed of the United States in the territory.

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## EagleEyes

godblessamerica said:


> you insult me with a technology owned by me using my language? hmm ironic isn't it?
> 
> may I add the servers for this website is based in America, show can you even possibly have the nerve to call this site Pakistani?



tera baap server ke pesa deta hai?

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## AR

godblessamerica said:


> you insult me with a technology owned by me using my language? hmm ironic isn't it?
> 
> may I add the servers for this website is based in America, show can you even possibly have the nerve to call this site Pakistani?



english is not your native language.... you abandoned you your native american language... english is native language of england and not of USA


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## gambit

gpit said:


> According to this dropout logic, a cave man possesses a stone tool that other cave men don't have is relatively wealthier than a modern man who has a refrigerator or a micro-stove as now nearly everybody has it.


Looks like this 'dropout logic' is more than you could bear. The cave man who possesses a tool other cave men do not have is wealthier than they but poorer than the modern man who has a fridge. But your illogic is understandable since communism make everyone as poor as a cave man in order to make everybody 'equal'. No wonder communists are always angry. Everybody else has more common sense and logic than they are...


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## Obambam

gambit said:


> Looks like this 'dropout logic' is more than you could bear. The cave man who possesses a tool other cave men do not have is wealthier than they but poorer than the modern man who has a fridge. But your illogic is understandable since communism make everyone as poor as a cave man in order to make everybody 'equal'. No wonder communists are always angry. Everybody else has more common sense and logic than they are...



Actually no. Communism has changed a great deal since Mao's era. Deng Xiaoping kick started a change to the system. He wanted to modernize China and wanted it to happen at all cost via the quickest route possible. This is reflected by his famous speech "I don't care if it is a black cat or a white cat, so long it catches mice then it's a good cat." China social system is opposite of what the west has adopted. 

The importance lies on the overall importance of the country and then gradually works its way down to the individual. Democrazy on the other hand starts with the individual and then works its way up to build the overall importance of the country.

Despite what the west thinks, they do not have the rights to change how other countries are ran. Likewise, China has been around much longer than the US and they too do not have the rights to change what the American's beliefs in. Respecting one another is the most important thing here. 

America has done well and China is doing equally as well for themselves and even Russia is so amazed with China's progress that their president are always coming over for talks on regional stability, economy and military to military issues. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what China has achieved since late 1970's. They are already the second wealthiest in the world and the largest creditor.

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## applesauce

Obambam said:


> Actually no. Communism has changed a great deal since Mao's era. Deng Xiaoping kick started a change to the system. He wanted to modernize China and wanted it to happen at all cost via the quickest route possible. This is reflected by his famous speech "I don't care if it is a black cat or a white cat, so long it catches mice then it's a good cat." China social system is opposite of what the west has adopted.
> 
> The importance lies on the overall importance of the country and then gradually works its way down to the individual. Democrazy on the other hand starts with the individual and then works its way up to build the overall importance of the country.
> 
> Despite what the west thinks, they do not have the rights to change how other countries are ran. Likewise, China has been around much longer than the US and they too do not have the rights to change what the American's beliefs in. Respecting one another is the most important thing here.
> 
> America has done well and China is doing equally as well for themselves and even Russia is so amazed with China's progress that their president are always coming over for talks on regional stability, economy and military to military issues. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what China has achieved since late 1970's. They are already the second wealthiest in the world and the largest creditor.



i dont think gambit differentiates between types of communism nor how significantly communism has changed, china actually had cold war allies denounce it when china choose to open up.

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## RVS_108

Sino-US war


ofcors US will win. 


some chinese people might be thinking tht US took some Loan frm Chinese bank So US is a poor nation ,dont u think tht it was just a Diversion to show the world tht US is losing money in US led war, just question urself tht How US can lose its money/Economy in US-WAR when the WAR itself is a life of US Economy "WarEconomy".

Do u really think tht US policy makers are tht stupid tht to show its enemies about the " US economy " ???


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## Bigoren

RVS_108 said:


> Sino-US war
> 
> 
> ofcors US will win.
> 
> 
> some chinese people might be thinking tht US took some Loan frm Chinese bank So US is a poor nation ,dont u think tht it was just a Diversion to show the world tht US is losing money in US led war, just question urself tht How US can lose its money/Economy in US-WAR when the WAR itself is a life of US Economy "WarEconomy".
> 
> Do u really think tht US policy makers are tht stupid tht to show its enemies about the " US economy " ???



Well,of course no one will look down/underestimate to us power due to their savage around the world.BTW,how you definately sure us will win then?No one think us is poor nation and that is just your perception that think other people think that us is a poor nation ,for your advise--dont put your perception on other people to this issue.

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## below_freezing

Tin Man said:


> Maybe this is merely an elaborate ploy to provoke the chinese establishment to act more rash. There was a reasonable parity between the soviet state and america. The same cannot ever be said about china. Perhaps the US is hoping it would give the chinese an incentive to act prematurely and lash out against some of its regional opponents- namely, taiwan, japan, india- thus giving everyone the perfect excuse to push china back to the stone age? In the event of aggression the US can gain the support from the more reclusive
> powers to act and coordinate a joint strike. This is just my assumption- please excuse my over active imagination.



Yeah, you tried the exact same thing in the korean war, and failed. Go to the "Can China be Defeated" thread and see why trying to push China to the stone age is impossible (well, it is, but the US will go down too)

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## ZhengHe

godblessamerica said:


> you insult me with a technology owned by me using my language? hmm ironic isn't it?
> 
> may I add the servers for this website is based in America, show can you even possibly have the nerve to call this site Pakistani?



YOUR technology? sorry what is your name again? 

your language? oh you mean the British language because there's no such thing as the American language

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## gambit

below_freezing said:


> Yeah, you tried the exact same thing in the korean war, and failed. Go to the *"Can China be Defeated"* thread and see why trying to push China to the stone age is impossible (well, it is, but the US will go down too)


Yes...China can be defeated.

In every country that is accepted by peers, meaning neighbors, there is a single authority who will administer the land, guide the citizenry, and defend the borders. A civil war is when there are factions competing for the rights and privileges of those responsibilities. It does not matter if that authority is gained by force or by democratic consensus. What matter is that authority is recognized by neighbors and that they are compelled by any reason to interact with that authority and no one else.

So what would constitute a 'defeat' of an authority? The best recent example is Iraq, as in Desert Storm. The Saddam government, the authority in Iraq, lost control of the borders, lost communication with the citizenry, and lost administration of the land. No matter how temporarily that was until the Allies decided to withdraw when they were within 100 miles of Baghdad, that period of incapacitation was determined by outsiders and therefore Iraq as a political entity was quite defeated.

So can China be defeated? Yes. If the Chinese government lost communication with its citizenry and if the PLA could not defend the borders, China is vulnerable to losing administration of the land. That vulnerability does not have to be exploited by the victor. After besting the PLA and sending the civilian leadership running for survival, the victor could just leave China to the mercies of neighbors. A defeat does not necessarily entail total control of the people, no matter that period of control, as in an invasion to secure that control. A defeat simply mean an authority was rendered ineffective for a time, leaving the country and the people vulnerable to the mercies of outsiders, who may or may not be charitable.


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## SekrutYakhni

gambit said:


> Yes...China can be defeated.
> 
> In every country that is accepted by peers, meaning neighbors, there is a single authority who will administer the land, guide the citizenry, and defend the borders. A civil war is when there are factions competing for the rights and privileges of those responsibilities. It does not matter if that authority is gained by force or by democratic consensus. What matter is that authority is recognized by neighbors and that they are compelled by any reason to interact with that authority and no one else.
> 
> So what would constitute a 'defeat' of an authority? The best recent example is Iraq, as in Desert Storm. The Saddam government, the authority in Iraq, lost control of the borders, lost communication with the citizenry, and lost administration of the land. No matter how temporarily that was until the Allies decided to withdraw when they were within 100 miles of Baghdad, that period of incapacitation was determined by outsiders and therefore Iraq as a political entity was quite defeated.
> 
> So can China be defeated? Yes. If the Chinese government lost communication with its citizenry and if the PLA could not defend the borders, China is vulnerable to losing administration of the land. That vulnerability does not have to be exploited by the victor. After besting the PLA and sending the civilian leadership running for survival, the victor could just leave China to the mercies of neighbors. A defeat does not necessarily entail total control of the people, no matter that period of control, as in an invasion to secure that control. A defeat simply mean an authority was rendered ineffective for a time, leaving the country and the people vulnerable to the mercies of outsiders, who may or may not be charitable.



I don't think that it takes too much effort to figure it out but the 'fancy story' you posted earlier is true for every country, yours too.

_
There are so many ifs and buts in your post..._


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## below_freezing

gambit said:


> Yes...China can be defeated.
> 
> In every country that is accepted by peers, meaning neighbors, there is a single authority who will administer the land, guide the citizenry, and defend the borders. A civil war is when there are factions competing for the rights and privileges of those responsibilities. It does not matter if that authority is gained by force or by democratic consensus. What matter is that authority is recognized by neighbors and that they are compelled by any reason to interact with that authority and no one else.
> 
> So what would constitute a 'defeat' of an authority? The best recent example is Iraq, as in Desert Storm. The Saddam government, the authority in Iraq, lost control of the borders, lost communication with the citizenry, and lost administration of the land. No matter how temporarily that was until the Allies decided to withdraw when they were within 100 miles of Baghdad, that period of incapacitation was determined by outsiders and therefore Iraq as a political entity was quite defeated.
> 
> So can China be defeated? Yes. If the Chinese government lost communication with its citizenry and if the PLA could not defend the borders, China is vulnerable to losing administration of the land. That vulnerability does not have to be exploited by the victor. After besting the PLA and sending the civilian leadership running for survival, the victor could just leave China to the mercies of neighbors. A defeat does not necessarily entail total control of the people, no matter that period of control, as in an invasion to secure that control. A defeat simply mean an authority was rendered ineffective for a time, leaving the country and the people vulnerable to the mercies of outsiders, who may or may not be charitable.



The "loss of communication and authority" is not going to occur though. As Chogy had said: Realistically, there is no nuclear capable political entity in this world that will collapse from an outside invasion before it launches its ICBMs. With the currently experimental stage of the US missile defense program, and an unknown number of ICBMs on our side (known 150), plus the ability to nuke Russia and Europe to force it to nuke the US, plus the ability to nuke Japan and SK to force them to pressure the US to not try the invasion, any such attempt at cutting off the ability of the government and military to communicate with the citizens of China will be quite a setback for all of civilization. Obviously, the US has the same ability, it cannot be rationally conquered from the outside.

This is why the US is not only investing heavily in physical defense technologies but also in psychological warfare and propaganda. Some countries cannot be rationally defeated from the outside, but some, such as the USSR, can be subject to temporary mind control or to control by traitors. Luckily, the US controlled traitors in China are marginalized and the mind control rendered ineffective.


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## aakash_2410

Military prowess

USA - No. 1 [Can destroy any country it wants to]
China - No. 2 [Modernising its' military really fast but still a long way to catch up with america]
Russia - No. 3 [They still can't accept that their soviet era legacy is long dead]
India - No. 4 [Strong army and modernising as well but wastes too much energy on its' west border]
UK - No. 5 [Used to be world's best military at the time of british empire but still pretty modernised]

Rest of the country doesn't matter as far as militaries are concerned. You guys might be thinking I'm being biased by including india and uk. But check it for yourself.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/


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## gambit

below_freezing said:


> The "loss of communication and authority" is not going to occur though. As Chogy had said: Realistically, there is no nuclear capable political entity in this world that will collapse from an outside *invasion* before it launches its ICBMs. With the currently experimental stage of the US missile defense program, and an unknown number of ICBMs on our side (known 150), plus the ability to nuke Russia and Europe to force it to nuke the US, plus the ability to nuke Japan and SK to force them to pressure the US to not try the *invasion*, any such attempt at cutting off the ability of the government and military to communicate with the citizens of China will be quite a setback for all of civilization. Obviously, the US has the same ability, it cannot be rationally conquered from the outside.
> 
> This is why the US is not only investing heavily in physical defense technologies but also in psychological warfare and propaganda. Some countries cannot be rationally defeated from the outside, but some, such as the USSR, can be subject to temporary mind control or to control by traitors. Luckily, the US controlled traitors in China are marginalized and the mind control rendered ineffective.


No one said anything about an invasion of mainland China. The US can render ineffective all but the nuclear elements of the PLA without setting a single boot on mainland China. Weakened enough, China will be considered 'defeated' by neighbors.


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## casual

gambit said:


> No one said anything about an invasion of mainland China. The US can render ineffective all but the nuclear elements of the PLA without setting a single boot on mainland China. Weakened enough, China will be considered 'defeated' by neighbors.



and how exactly did you come to this conclusion? 

again, stop it with your speculations. China has a highly asymmetrical defense layout. One that the U.S. is untested against. It is not even clear now that U.S. have the advantage in the pacific anymore. 

therefore, let's play it safe and not underestimate China cause we can be sure that China won't be underestimating us.


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## applesauce

gambit said:


> No one said anything about an invasion of mainland China. The US can render ineffective all but the nuclear elements of the PLA without setting a single boot on mainland China. Weakened enough, China will be considered 'defeated' by neighbors.



things would get nuclear before "The US can render ineffective all but the nuclear elements of the PLA without setting a single boot on mainland China." 

plus the USA cannot neutralize all elements of the PLA, rifles dont take large factories to make it can be done underground, people have made them in the woods with basic tools and you cant kill all the people in china and so long as a army exists then china is not defeated (you think neighbors would believe china is defeated when it still has its nukes and an at minimum, a basic army?). should a shooting war start in time the us would gain air superiority and naval superiority(leaving aside the astronomical costs and losses of such a war and of course nuclear weapons use) and start boming/missile strikes but those dont win you wars no real nation has been defeated without boots on the ground. ps with an open war like this the PLA facing the defeat your talking about, would certainly use all resources in its power, if that included working with enemies of America and providing terrorist with weapons then im sure if things are desperate enough they would do so including nuclear devices.

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## insomniac00

ChinaRocks said:


> Well the reason is simple for being an ally of america ,master of back stabbing india will be in our mind if china going to have a war with america, we must first taking care of this little irritant country called india.



dont worry about that my freind


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## Badabing

gambit said:


> Would look like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan.



Japan, SK and Taiwan are all "client" states to the USA. They each have a choke hold from the USA so they are not even sovereign. SK and Japan both have American troops on their soil because they can't stand on their own, by design, and Taiwan is not capable of standing on its own neither without the consent of either China or the USA. 

Democracy is not a teabag that you simply add hot water and stir. How long did it really take the US to reach the present state of democracy, while slavery was being practiced and endorsed by the founding fathers who toyed with the phrase "all men are created equal"; the desecration of the Native American culture that is still ongoing? What about the Chinese Exclusion Act signed into law from 1862 until 1947? All happened without design under a democracy?

America and the Europeans have been cajoling, proselytizing powers imposing their packages of military might and religious biases onto their "allies". The World has seen this play one too many times so please get off of your evangelical and chauvenistic podium and chuck the Tea Party mindset so you can see the rest of the World without the fleeing sense of superiority.

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## Bigoren

Assange said:


> China thinks it can teach lesson to everyone it wants
> 
> but one day someone will teach China a lesson for sure
> 
> Waiting for that day



Can you tell me the day?


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## Bigoren

AR said:


> was'nt that true... come on dear.... laughing can't help you out... everyone talks more about mumbai than shangai now.....
> now dont say I am joking...... you itself are joking



Hey dude,you are definately joking.You are make fun of yourself.BTW,thanks because you make my day!!!


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## Bigoren

AR said:


> these buildings are scattered all over mumbai including navi-mumbai
> however there are tagged in single photo by that software



WTF??Are you nuts or you think we all are naive like you are? A 5 years old kid will definately know this is a design scale paper,unfortunately you cannot differentiate it.


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## ViXuyen

I doubt the West wanted to turn China (or even India) into another Japan, Sk, Taiwan. China has 1.4 billion people, it is too big for the Western hi-tech countries to afford to have it "developed". A developed China means the West would lose out 1.4 billion people to consume products made by the West. A developed China means that it will compete with the West for purchase of natural resources from the undeveloped countries that have natural resources but no capabilities to produces industrial goods and natural resources are finite btw.

Just look at the policy of the U.S toward the PHillipines at the end of world war 2, the U.S "mandated" that the Phillipines will be a poor nation, refusing to transfer any technology to turn it into another Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan. Japan, SK, or Taiwan are so poor in natural resources, without the transfer of technology from the West and the U.S, these 3 countries would be much poorer than Cambodia or Lao today.


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## CardSharp

5Star said:


> I doubt the West wanted to turn China (or even India) into another Japan, Sk, Taiwan. China has 1.4 billion people, it is too big for the Western hi-tech countries to afford to have it "developed". A developed China means the West would lose out 1.4 billion people to consume products made by the West. A developed China means that it will compete with the West for purchase of natural resources from the undeveloped countries that have natural resources but no capabilities to produces industrial goods and natural resources are finite btw.



A couple wrong with this. Turning China into Japan is irrelevant point. There is 0% chance that could happen. It wouldn't be possible and it isn't politically advantageous.

Also The west doesn't need China to produce cheap consumer goods, they got along fine with us in the 60's and 70's right? The fact is that China exploited a market need in the west not the other way around (IE China produced a whole bunch of cheap goods and the west came looking) 





5Star said:


> *A developed China means that it will compete with the West for purchase of natural resources from the undeveloped countries that have natural resources* but no capabilities to produces industrial goods and natural resources are finite btw.



What do you think is happening now? 



5Star said:


> Just look at the policy of the U.S toward the PHillipines at the end of world war 2, the U.S "mandated" that the Phillipines will be a poor nation, refusing to transfer any technology to turn it into another Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan. Japan, SK, or Taiwan are so poor in natural resources, without the transfer of technology from the West and the U.S, these 3 countries would be much poorer than Cambodia or Lao today.



Show me where the US mandated the Philippines be poor. No, the fact is Japanese and Korea excelled not because of US aid but with the help of US aid. They both had in their history, complex merchant, governmental, and cultural traditions that helped them succeed.


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## ViXuyen

Read this and see for yourselves, the U.S only wants a few developed countries in the world while promoting "democracy" and keeping these "democractic" poor to consume U.S and Western products, the Phillipines is one of those countries
Sundalo Tagapagtanggol ng Pilipino - The Nation


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## CardSharp

5Star said:


> Read this and see for yourselves, the U.S only wants a few developed countries in the world while promoting "democracy" and keeping these "democractic" poor to consume U.S and Western products, the Phillipines is one of those countries
> Sundalo Tagapagtanggol ng Pilipino - The Nation



I think the Philipines didn't get as much aid from the US because the US didn't see it as strategically important as Japan or SK, not because of this theory about neo-colonial states. (sounds a bit conspiratorial to me)


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## ViXuyen

CardSharp said:


> I think the Philipines didn't get as much aid from the US because the US didn't see it as strategically important as Japan or SK, not because of this theory about neo-colonial states. (sounds a bit conspiratorial to me)


What ever excuse that the U.S did not transfer the industrial technologies to the Phillipines to help it become like Japan or south Korea is irrelevant. What relevant is that the U.S only let a few country to become rich while promoting "democracy" and "free trade" around the world to consume U.S and its Western allies high valued products

Let's get real here, the world can't be developed all, if all countries are developed, how can the U.S and its Western allies sell their products to these countries ie high tech products to earn the rights to buy natural resources that most Western countries don't have?


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## CardSharp

5Star said:


> What ever excuse that the U.S did not transfer the industrial technologies to the Phillipines to help it become like Japan or south Korea is irrelevant. What relevant is that the U.S only let a few country to become rich while promoting "democracy" and "free trade" around the world to consume U.S and its Western allies high valued products
> 
> Let's get real here, the world can't be developed all, if all countries are developed, how can the U.S and its Western allies sell their products to these countries ie high tech products to earn the rights to buy natural resources that most Western countries don't have?



Developed countries are not solely producers and developing countries are not solely consumers. Similarly not all developing nations are resource exporters (China for example) and not all resource exporters are developing (Canada and Australia for example). 

I can see where you're coming from though, but still I think in the case of the Philippines I think it is a case of no great strategic importance.


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## Chinese-Dragon

5Star said:


> Let's get real here, the world can't be developed all, if all countries are developed, how can the U.S and its Western allies sell their products to these countries ie high tech products to earn the rights to buy natural resources that most Western countries don't have?



That is true, the world cannot support all the developing countries becoming fully developed. There simply are not enough resources.

But what can they do about it, short of a nuclear war? There is a reason, why America continues to buy Chinese goods, and why they continue to borrow money from China. They need it to keep their economy going. 

Which American government would be willing to give that up? And even if they did, that would still not guarantee that our growth will slow down.

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## CardSharp

Chinese-Dragon said:


> That is true, the world cannot support all the developing countries becoming fully developed. There simply are not enough resources.
> 
> But what can they do about it, short of a nuclear war? There is a reason, why America continues to buy Chinese goods, and why they continue to borrow money from China. They need it to keep their economy going.
> 
> Which American government would be willing to give that up? And even if they did, that would still not guarantee that our growth will slow down.



Ahhh I think I see why he said not everyone can be a developed country now. It's a fair statement and I misread it the first time round (thought he was saying trade only happens between developing <--> developed countries)

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## below_freezing

5Star said:


> I doubt the West wanted to turn China (or even India) into another Japan, Sk, Taiwan. China has 1.4 billion people, it is too big for the Western hi-tech countries to afford to have it "developed". A developed China means the West would lose out 1.4 billion people to consume products made by the West. A developed China means that it will compete with the West for purchase of natural resources from the undeveloped countries that have natural resources but no capabilities to produces industrial goods and natural resources are finite btw.
> 
> Just look at the policy of the U.S toward the PHillipines at the end of world war 2, the U.S "mandated" that the Phillipines will be a poor nation, refusing to transfer any technology to turn it into another Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan. Japan, SK, or Taiwan are so poor in natural resources, without the transfer of technology from the West and the U.S, these 3 countries would be much poorer than Cambodia or Lao today.



We don't need permission from the West to do anything. What are they going to do, nuke us and then we all get back to the stone age? Even if that happens, we both nuke each other, both back to the stone age, we'll beat them with numbers.


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## redfox

It toke 1 month for few cavemen (Taliban) to attempt in crippling the US economy by luring them in fighting an endless war, with a bonus of Iraq that has lasted over 10 years. It toke over 30 years for US in its ARMS RACE with Russia, to have had the same effect to the collapsed of the Soviet Union.

Taliban were financially supported by the US CIA, had partially succeeded in their goals. What was not foreseen was the finance turmoil was not all due to an external force, but more an intermal force.

The US housing market bubble, the overvalued paper wealth have lead US consumer to spend more than what it can digest. When the paper lost its trail, not only did the US consumer could not afford to pay, it literally bought a collapse to US major banks. US today have suffered with the worst recession since 1929.

It is fair to say today that the US not only is financially unstable, but that it can not sustain even ARM RACE with China, not alone a war with China!

We can see this clearly by its willingness to supply nuclear power to Vietnam with no limitation. How it wants Japan and Taiwan to get its new F-35 stealth fighter. Where it is supporting Philippine's Navy in military aids to counter China's modern Navy. Where it is forcing India to buy F-35, and so more. And the cuts in its military budget.

As this is more than transparent, the world clearly see its weakness as it can not afford to engage in another conflict. So to imply China is underestimating US is more ridiculous than imposing itself. It is close to be written on stones that the US empire is on a decline, as we can see it will engage to its old enemy to serve its interest as it can not do its own battle.

The louder the warning gets from the US, the more China have triumphed because its hitting too close to US mainland. The game of encirclement only plays well with everyone self interest at work. It is not a one directional stage, but an international stage. So hands can change and players can change.


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## RisingShiningSuperpower

gpit said:


> AR, are you sure this is Mumbai?
> 
> LOL! Thought your IQ would help you find a better way in boosting your ego. *Seriously!*
> 
> 
> 
> My 2 cents:
> 
> a) stop being incredible, start being credible.
> 
> b) internet is good for polishing something shinning, but it is also deadly in busting fakers. Copy/paste never works this way.  Learn from the Chinese in a better way.



With Modi-ji in charge, Mumbai will quickly surpass Shanghai. By 2020, when one thinks of modern megacities, one will think of Mumbai before New York and Shanghai.


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