# Hong Kong protests l Updates, News & Discussion



## Hamartia Antidote

Yet another day of protests (rewind for earlier)





Live


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## Hamartia Antidote

earlier


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## Goenitz

Strong center are good for big countries... They don't like 'protests' but see how many are drawn from poverty...


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## Mista

Hamartia Antidote said:


>



Wow... 0:25.






Live reporting:
*Nearly 2 million people march through streets of Hong Kong to oppose extradition bill, organisers say*

Estimated turnout almost double the previous week's march with almost 30 per cent of Hongkongers thought to have joined
Police say figure was 338,000 at its peak but source admits it should be more as only those on the original route were counted
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...-black-hong-kong-will-march-against-suspended


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1140201419389014016

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## sixth

stupid people were being mobilized. that's it.

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## Char

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Yet another day of protests (rewind for earlier)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live



concession didn't work
just let it be


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## Dungeness

Reminds me "Occupy Wall Street".


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## Mista

Three_Kingdoms said:


> That is why you (or your ancesters) have fled indian to take safe-haven in the rogue state and others of your kind in Singapore or in Hong Kong!
> 
> BTW, can you and @Mista communicate in hindi or other common indian languages (over 100 of them) than english?



SB你也来了。

不是越南人就是印度人，真服了你们。


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## Yaseen1

I think there is no need to pass Extradition law as chinese authorities should detain anyone in hongkong like canada did with cfo of huawei without passing any law. China should show strength here and not come in trap of legal matters and need of legislation but use their power without considering any law like u.s and their allies are doing.China should also invade taiwan as a response of this u.s interference in hongkong


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## Hamartia Antidote

Mista said:


> SB你也来了。
> 
> 不是越南人就是印度人，真服了你们。



LOL! You think he’s going to believe you? If you post anything outside the of the rabid collective line you are a traitor who deserves to die.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Mista said:


> Those in the crowd are Indians according to their logic.



Why is it just the mainland Chinese who display this extreme attitude (almost North Korean in fervor and defensiveness) while the Chinese outside the country are far more reasonable and easy to have a conversation/debate with..no matter what the topic.

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## Three_Kingdoms

Mista said:


> SB你也来了。
> 
> 不是越南人就是印度人，真服了你们。



SOB 你“得“”型胃”根“月男忍”“河”“阴毒仁”益阳“！“刃冥八”！



Hamartia Antidote said:


> LOL! You think he’s going to believe you? If you post anything outside the of the rabid collective line you are a traitor who deserves to die.



I have no authority to refuse your denial, understanding your extreme disgust to your own root culture! That indeed is a well-deserved comptempt. Just as pathetic as the other one who preferred to talk in English other than a language from the same country which both of you dont understand each other be even living in the same place. Ask your ancestors about this tragedy!



Yaseen1 said:


> I think there is no need to pass Extradition law as chinese authorities should detain anyone in hongkong like canada did with cfo of huawei without passing any law. China should show strength here and not come in trap of legal matters and need of legislation but use their power without considering any law like u.s and their allies are doing.China should also invade taiwan as a response of this u.s interference in hongkong



There are more to the proposed bill other than the superficial.
Dont be naive as the protestors and the members who denied their indian identity on the forum.

Peace and fluency of the traffic completely restored.
Agitators, hooligans went home. And trolls + vehement Chinese haters on the forum should also take a leak if you can find your toilet, hahaha!



Mista said:


> Those in the crowd are Indians according to their logic.



you bet! if indians are in there, they should have more efficacy of dispersing the mobs and hooligans than tear gas bombs.


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## nang2

I understand the thought pattern of those protesters. Due to their distrust in Chinese government, they simply view themselves as potential fugitives in the eyes of Chinese government. It is literally an anti-Chinese government demonstration. This kind of things will happen more and more often. People in Hong Kong have long been educated in distrusting Chinese government. And so do I. But the difference is that I distrust all governments and they only distrust Chinese government and put blind faith in western governments.

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## nang2

Char said:


> concession didn't work
> just let it be


No concession worked. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many people on the street. People were simply encouraged by the concession. I doubt there would be so many people if the army were mobilized.


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## Mista

Three_Kingdoms said:


> HK and China as well are the places where you can find PLENTY OF rich people in the world MORON!










Three_Kingdoms said:


> the us was a shithole a hundred years ago esp during the great depression.



1783年，乾隆四十八年，美国独立；

1792年，乾隆五十七年，纽交所成立；

1802年，嘉庆七年，杜邦成立；

1812年，嘉庆十七年，花旗银行成立；

1833年，道光十三年，麦克森成立；

1837年，道光十七年，宝洁成立；

1849年，道光二十九年，辉瑞成立；

1869年，同治八年，高盛成立；

1860年，咸丰十年，JP摩根成立；

1877年，光绪三年，AT&T成立；

1880年，光绪六年，柯达成立；

1882年，光绪八年，埃克森美孚成立。

1883年，光绪九年，布鲁克林大桥通车。

1886年，光绪十二年，可口可乐成立；

1888年，光绪十四年，雅培成立；

1892年，光绪十八年，通用电气成立；

1897年，光绪二十三年，陶氏化学成立；

1901年，光绪二十七年，吉列成立；

1902年，光绪二十八年，百事成立；

1903年，光绪二十九年，福特汽车成立；

1905年，光绪三十一年 美赞臣成立；

1908年，光绪三十四年，通用汽车成立；

1911年，宣统三年，IBM成立，玛氏成立。



Three_Kingdoms said:


> China is fast developing with the most advanced transportation and science techs that are fusing into our societies.



厉害了，你的国！像清朝一样，请继续 YY！


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## Dungeness

That viral photo of the Hong Kong protests is not what it seems - CNN

They claimed there were 1 million protesters (police number 240K):







The following week, there claimed there were 2 million protesters, and they provided the proof:


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## Mista

Dungeness said:


> That viral photo of the Hong Kong protests is not what it seems - CNN
> 
> They claimed there were 1 million protesters (police number 240K):
> 
> View attachment 565955
> 
> 
> The following week, there claimed there were 2 million protesters, and they provided the proof:
> 
> View attachment 565956



According to the Chinese state media, they are supporting the bill.



> *800,000 say 'yes' to rendition bill*
> Despite the blazing heat, representatives of various organizations in Hong Kong rose to the occasion on Sunday, staging various public activities across the city in support of the government's plans to amend the SAR's extradition laws.



http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/hkedition/2019-06/10/content_37478727.htm


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## 艹艹艹

非常好，让香港闹得更热闹点，直接他妈的取消一国两制，给他们派个书记过去


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## Sharky

Chinese party going to have a meltdown. Tiananmen square 2.0?


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## Pakistansdefender

Even if a person nail got broken in Hong Kong or Japan people do this big protest . What the bug deal..


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## bbccdd1470

Those numbers were greatly exggerated by the organizers, we had scholar calculated the weight and length of the roads, the time period of the protest (they walked slow and stopped few times included a time stopped for an hour), and the capacity of transportations. This is more likely the first protest was around 350 thousand to 450 thousand people; and the second protest was around 500 thousand to 650 thousand people. Still there were a lots of people.

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## Yankee-stani



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## Death Professor

lets see whats the opinion of chinese members on this situation.

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## zectech

These protests are reminding me of the 'Arab' Spring:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-arab-spring-made-in-the-usa/5484950

*U.S. Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings*

WASHINGTON — Even as the United States poured billions of dollars into foreign military programs and anti-terrorism campaigns, a small core of American government-financed organizations were promoting democracy in authoritarian Arab states.

The money spent on these programs was minute compared with efforts led by the Pentagon. But as American officials and others look back at the uprisings of the Arab Spring, they are seeing that the United States’ democracy-building campaigns played a bigger role in fomenting protests than was previously known, with key leaders of the movements having been trained by the Americans in campaigning, organizing through new media tools and monitoring elections.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html

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## 70U63

Not sure how mainland going to respond.
HK people themselves destroy their own society.
State of emergency?

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## zectech

70U63 said:


> Not sure how mainland going to respond.
> HK people themselves destroy their own society.
> State of emergency?



What the West does, is stir up trouble for certain groups and then watch to see if they can poke China to crush HKers. The goal would be to get Taiwan to be opposed to a reunification with China because they don't want any of the freedom and liberty HK was trashing in these protests. HKers are merely tools, foolish tools. It was as though there would be an extradition treaty with Washington.

How much the BBC is covering this, my guess these protests are MI5 and MI6 funded and promoted.

The British people are smart and want no part of the MI6's staged rebellions around the globe.

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## Zsari

QUOTE="OsmanAli98, post: 11604393, member: 191211"]



[/QUOTE]

The crowd is getting smaller and more radicalized, which would make it easier for the HK authority to handle both logistically and legally. China doesn't need to do anything. Just let the HK SAR handle the situation.

Article 18 of the HK basic law clearly authorize the central government to take control in case of political turmoil, so Beijing always had a backup guarantee. But I don't see the necessity in doing such. 28 more years and the one country two system expires. Beijing should just wait as HK is becoming less and less relevant. It is no longer the golden egg, and more chaos would only make the island less relevant and influential. Matter fact it serve as a perfect example to the rest of China how the HK system is self-destructive.

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## Zee-shaun

I wonder if the revolt is foreign feulled or indigenous. HK has been with China mainland for 22 years, it has kept it's integrity. Imho there's no reason to seek more independency.

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## FalconStar

This Hong Kong protest looks completely like an orchestrated campaign against China.
This thing was getting more attention by foreign press than it needed.
It looked like CNN and BBC cared more for the extradition bill than actual Hong Kong Citizens did.

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## CIA Mole

I think if they can't handle HK, then Taiwan is a lost cause.

CCP think they can handle Taiwan, so HK should be ezpz.

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## bbccdd1470

Zee-shaun said:


> I wonder if the revolt is foreign feulled or indigenous


Just watch the first half of the video and you will find your answer.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2507948772582579




/

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## Zee-shaun

bbccdd1470 said:


> Just watch the first half of the video and you should find your answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2507948772582579
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /



Please elaborate.


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## bbccdd1470

Zee-shaun said:


> Please elaborate.


The first half of the video has english substitle, and you should be able to understand it. The point is those protestors are not normal youngers.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Meh, Hong Kong is less than 3% of China's GDP, if it vanished tomorrow no one would miss it. Let the thugs burn their city to the ground. If anything this demonstrates clearly that one country, two systems is a total failure.

One country, one system.

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## Crystal-Clear

hong kong protest getting all the attention while yellow vest protest getting ignored by zionist media .

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## CIA Mole

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Meh, Hong Kong is less than 3% of China's GDP, if it vanished tomorrow no one would miss it. Let the thugs burn their city to the ground. If anything this demonstrates clearly that one country, two systems is a total failure.
> 
> One country, one system.


I guess it is a failure from that perspective.


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## jaybird

I hope the Chinese Government learn their lesson from the past. That is DO NOT let the foreign agents AKA protest organizer leaders flee to the west after the chaos like the Tienanmen square incident. It will embolden more scumbag traitors like these knowing nothing will happen to them after hurting China and the people of Hong Kong. They probably already have escape plans set up for them by the foreign NGO and can enjoy the money and life in the west afterward. Only those ignorant and brainwashed people who actually care about Hong Kong will be left behind.

These peoples already sell their soul for money. The leaders and the black hand behind them are the people China should go after and Make them pay heavily for the mayhem by any means necessary. Right now there is really not much consequences for them and it looks like a lawless jungle out there. If they attack the police like they did in Hong Kong or storm the government office in any of the democratic western nations they will be shot dead or in jail for a very long time.

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## nahtanbob

I never understand what the fuss in Hong Kong is about


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## Viva_Viet

nahtanbob said:


> I never understand what the fuss in Hong Kong is about


They want main land CN collapse, so the CN trade center will stay in HK and made HKer rich instead of Shenzen or elsewhere in CN.


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## nahtanbob

Viva_Viet said:


> They want main land CN collapse, so the CN trade center will stay in HK and made HKer rich instead of Shenzen or elsewhere in CN.



that is not going to happen. they are lucky the tanks have not rolled in


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## obj 705A

IMO the mainland should not interfere in whats happening in HK, no need to panic after the city since it only represent about 7 million out of 1.4 billion, however if the chaos doesnt end in about one or two months then the PLA HK garrison should restore order in HK.


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## The Eagle

OsmanAli98 said:


>



Sorry to say but that wasn't an appropriate thread title.

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## KAL-EL

nahtanbob said:


> I never understand what the fuss in Hong Kong is about



Looks like a very beautiful city to me. Of course, I’m just speaking visually, as I don’t claim to be an expert on what’s going on there.

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## TruthTheOnlyDefense

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Yet another day of protests (rewind for earlier)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live



Looks like HK want freedom from the rich country full of assholes who crushes a previous uprising using tanks.

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## nahtanbob

TruthTheOnlyDefense said:


> Looks like HK want freedom from the rich country full of assholes who crushes a previous uprising using tanks.


they did not use tanks this time


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## Dante80




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## Dante80



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## bbccdd1470

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2524462050931251




/

For people who don't know Chinese, the picture said the "Base ball signal" means the police is in trap, time for action. This picture was taken in the riot of Sha Tin and clearly showd that foreign power is involved in the current political crisis (color revolution) in HK.






Etc: this is not the first time those westerners have beening caught by pictures.

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## rashid.sarwar

Viva_Viet said:


> They want main land CN collapse, so the CN trade center will stay in HK and made HKer rich instead of Shenzen or elsewhere in CN.



What is "CN trade center", an institution or building or government agency?

So China cannot control the NGOs organizing the chaos .....


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## hiseen

*"Your father US" police handling of similar cases:*

In the United States, any protest must follow the principles of peace, rationality, and non-violence. No one should break through the legal bottom line.

On September 17, 2011, *thousands of people *gathered in Manhattan in New York to oppose power transactions, bipartisan political struggles, and social injustice. This is the famous "Occupy Wall Street" protest.

On October 8, *more than a thousand people* gathered in the Freedom Square between the White House and the National Assembly to declare "occupation of Washington", condemning big companies to use money to influence politics and asking the government to invest more resources in people's livelihood projects...

These protesters are not unconstrained. In the early days of "Occupy Wall Street", four people were *arrested for* *masking*, one was arrested for *crossing the police roadblock and against the police*, two were arrested for *entering the Bank of America building*, and one was arrested for d*isturbing the law and order*.

On September 24, at least 80 people were arrested for *obstructing traffic or not following the order*.

On October 1, protesters walked through the Brooklyn Bridge. The police asked protesters to stand on the sidewalk and not to go up the road. *More than 700 people were arrested for refusing to obey. 20 of them were facing criminal charges for disturbing law and order.*

In the early hours of November 15, a large number of riot police in New York entered the Zuccotti Park in Lower Manhattan, and forced a clearance of facilities such as tents set up by the "Occupy Wall Street" protesters.* About 200 people were arrested.*

*Democratic country:





















Dictatorship China:*























The black mask was harassed in Yuen Long and was expelled by the villagers.
Then the black mask actually called the police to protect them. It was a shameless person.

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## ZY-CN-CA

I do not care, Just feeling angry and letting everyone Chinese see the ridiculous "democracy",On the contrary, many people in mainland China understand what is called "democracy" and are also sad for many young people in Hong Kong.
and a few days ago after a larger support parade, when people used YouTube live broadcast, they found that they could not be broadcast live. But the opposition videos were everywhere. But Why the biggest support parade on the website and youtube only have very few very small news,
so you know, As the government said, the parade was planned by foreign forces! AND Thank you, you let us know, not because the world is very safe, but because we were born in China.

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## Hamartia Antidote

bbccdd1470 said:


> .



These are baseball signals..not sure what the above chart is


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## bbccdd1470

Hamartia Antidote said:


> These are baseball signals..not sure what the above chart is


Who care the name of that signal? The point is foreign power is involved in this incident.

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## hiseen

They bit the police finger the day before yesterday,Insult the police every day,Destroy the legislature... ...
Yesterday they called the police to let the police protect them from leaving.
Just because they went to yuanlang to make trouble, they were driven out.
a group of shameless ignorant stupid mobs


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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...ll-beyond-end-point-third-major-march-against

*Defying police orders, Hong Kong extradition bill protesters block roads in Central and march to Beijing’s liaison office*

Crowds use barricades to block thoroughfares and some throw eggs at building
Thousands spill past mandated end point of shortened march

More than 3½ hours after the start of a major march against Hong Kong's now-suspended extradition bill, protesters are still streaming in from the starting point at Causeway Bay but some have splintered off in several directions.

On Sunday groups advanced beyond the original police-mandated end point at Wan Chai to Queensway and Central, where they began occupying main thoroughfares of Connaught Road Central and Connaught Road West, blocking vehicles from getting through and putting up wooden barricades. Another group of protesters advanced towards the liaison office.

Demonstrators also gathered outside the Court of Final Appeal, the initial finishing point of the march organisers had pushed for but police disallowed.

By 7pm, crowds reached Beijing's liaison office in Sai Ying Pun. No police were seen guarding the building but a number of security guards were inside.





*Seventh weekend anti-government protest in a row in Hong Kong*

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## Hamartia Antidote

continuing into another day





biased pro-Western Russian TV coverage

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## TruthTheOnlyDefense

Hamartia Antidote said:


> continuing into another day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> biased pro-Western Russian TV coverage



LOL at the Chinese.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Rise of the Triad..

https://www.yahoo.com/news/anger-hong-kong-over-triad-090823507.html




Some of the men in white shirts were filmed leaving the scene in cars bearing Chinese mainland number plates - REUTERS

Anger soared in Hong Kong on Monday over a vicious assault on pro-democracy protesters by suspected triad gangsters that left dozens wounded, a dramatic escalation of the political turmoil plaguing the Chinese territory.

The financial hub's roiling unrest took a dark turn late Sunday when gangs of men - most wearing white T-shirts and carrying bats, sticks and metal poles - set upon anti-government demonstrators as they returned from another huge march earlier that day.


Footage broadcast live on Facebook showed people screaming as the men beat multiple protesters and journalists in Yuen Long station and inside subway trains, leaving pools of blood on the floor.

Hospital authorities said 45 people were wounded in the attack, with one man in critical condition and five others with serious injuries.

Critics rounded on the city's embattled police force, accusing officers of taking more than an hour to reach the site and failing to arrest the armed assailants who stayed in the streets around the station into Monday morning.

Some men in white shirts were later filmed leaving the scene in cars with Chinese mainland number plates.





Video footage showed attacks by the men on demonstrators at Yuen Long train station Credit: The Stand News/Reuters
Lam Cheuk-ting, a pro-democracy lawmaker, was one of those wounded in the melee, sustaining lacerations to his face and arms.

He criticised police for their response and accused "triad members" of being behind the attacks.

"Their very barbaric and violent acts have already completely violated the bottom line of Hong Kong's civilised society," he told reporters early Monday.

Furious fellow pro-democracy lawmakers held a press conference on Monday where they accused the city's pro-Beijing leaders of turning a blind eye to the attacks.

"This is triad gangs beating up Hong Kong people," fumed legislator Alvin Yeung. "Yet you pretend nothing had happened?"

City police chief Stephen Lo defended his force, saying his officers were busy dealing with violent anti-government protests elsewhere.

"Definitely our manpower is stretched," he told reporters, describing any suggestion police colluded with triads as a "smear" and adding his officers would pursue the attackers.

The clashes have ratcheted up concern that the city's feared triad gangs are wading into the political conflict.





Pro-democracy lawmakers have accused Hong Kong police of turning a blind eye to the attack Credit: Lam Cheuk Ting /AFP/Getty Images
Yuen Long lies in the New Territories near the Chinese border where the criminal gangs and staunchly pro-Beijing rural committees remain influential.

Similar assaults by pro-government vigilantes against demonstrators during the 2014 "Umbrella Movement" protests were blamed on triads.

Hong Kong has been plunged into its worst crisis in recent history by weeks of marches and sporadic violent confrontations between police and pockets of hardcore protesters.

The initial protests were sparked by a now-suspended bill that would have allowed extraditions to mainland China, but they have since evolved into a wider movement calling for democratic reforms, universal suffrage and a halt to sliding freedoms in the semi-autonomous territory.

The city's parliament was trashed by protesters earlier this month, as Beijing's authority faces its most serious challenge since Hong Kong was handed back to China in 1997.

As the mob rampage unfolded in Yuen Long police were simultaneously battling hardcore pro-democracy protesters in the middle of the city's commercial district.

Riot officers fired tear gas and rubber bullets at protesters, hours after China's Hong Kong Liaison Office was daubed with eggs and graffiti in a vivid rebuke to Beijing's rule.





China condemned the protesters' vandalism of its Liason Office in Hong Kong as "absolutely intolerable"Credit: Jerome Favre/EPA-EFE/Rex
Wang Zhimin, the head of the office, blasted the protesters on Monday, saying they had insulted "all Chinese people" as he called on Hong Kong's government to pursue the "rioters".

Hong Kong's leader Carrie Lam condemned both the targeting of the Liaison Office and the pro-government mobsters saying the scenes "outraged the whole city".

"We absolutely do not condone those sort of violent acts," she told reporters.

Earlier on Sunday, another peaceful anti-government march had made its way through the city - the seventh weekend in a row that residents have come out en masse.

Yet the huge protests have done little to persuade Lam - or Beijing - to change tack on the hub's future.

Under the 1997 handover deal with Britain, China promised to allow Hong Kong to keep key liberties such as its independent judiciary and freedom of speech.

But many say those provisions are already being curtailed, citing the disappearance into mainland custody of dissident booksellers, the disqualification of prominent politicians and the jailing of pro-democracy protest leaders.

Authorities have also resisted calls for the city's leader to be directly elected by the people.

Protesters have vowed to keep their movement going until their core demands are met.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Seems there is some backstory with all the youth protests in Hong Kong..(which makes more sense than the “CIA coming in and brainwashing people”)

https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/post...-hong-kongs-angry-and-disillusioned-youth-are

Young people have been at the forefront of ongoing protests against a proposed extradition bill that have shaken Hong Kong. At the root of the turmoil is concern over what many people see as the inexorable erosion of civil liberties and the city’s autonomy by an ever-meddling central government that refuses to grant full democracy in the former British colony. But many young people in what is one of the world’s most densely populated and expensive cities are also infuriated by sky-high living costs and a feeling that a home of one’s own will never be more than a dream.

Over the past decade, Hong Kong’s residential property prices have skyrocketed by 242 per cent, and for the ninth year in a row, the city’s property market has been rated the world’s most unaffordable.

The average monthly salary is HK$19,100 for men and HK$14,700 for women. The average monthly rent for a one-bedroom flat in the city centre is HK$16,551. In 2018, average home prices were 20.9 times the gross annual median household income, according to the Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey. You could buy a French chateau for what you would pay for your Hong Kong shoebox in the sky

With figures like these, it is clear that young Hongkongers’ anger will not be easily dispelled.



_




Fung Cheng. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters

*FUNG CHENG, 25.* The graphic designer, pictured in his 54 sq ft bedroom, lives in a flat with his parents and brother in Hang Hau. Venting his frustration at a system he believes has robbed him of the chance to ever buy his own home,he says Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor has not listened to the people_

“It’s the system’s problem […] they don’t need a vote to be the government, there is no democracy,” he says





Ruby Leung. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters


*RUBY LEUNG, 22.* A law student who lives with her mother and domestic helper in Kowloon, Leung is pictured in her 75 sq ft bedroom. “They promised to have ‘one country, two systems’ for 50 years, so people panic about what will happen in 50 years. Will they continue this, or will they just assimilate us into China, like a district of Shenzhen? That’s very scary,” Leung says


“There was a hope that we could get universal suffrage. But then the situation got worse. Not only do we not have universal suffrage, but the Chinese government is even more influential in politics.





William Lun. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters

*WILLIAM LUN, 22.* The aspiring lawyer – pictured in his 70 sq ft room – shares a flat with his father and brother in Sha Tin. “It’s everybody’s dream to get a house. It is the Chinese mentality. It marks a stage in your life when you finally get settled. I want to buy a house but it’s mission impossible,” Lun says

Hong Kong should have its own identity along with its Chinese identity. Hong Kong is special. I’ve cried over the [course of the protests], many times. Seeing what’s been happening, my friends getting shot, tear-gassed.

“It’s sad to see the government being indifferent. They seem to be not listening to the youngsters, they seem to be not caring. Two million came out and they are saying, ‘Oh, we hear you. But we are still going to press on.’”





Eunice Wai. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuter’s
*EUNICE WAI, 30.* The primary school teacher, who lives with her parents and brother John (see below) in Prince Edward, is pictured in her 80 sq ft bedroom. Explaining how Hong Kong people feel stifled by Beijing, Wai says, “They control people more and give us less freedom

But, she adds, other problems are making life increasingly difficult, in particular what she says is an unfair housing policy that only makes the rich richer. “We have so little room in Hong Kong and people find it hard to buy a flat. The property companies control the market.”





John Wai. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters
*JOHN WAI, 26.* The engineer, pictured in his 75 sq ft bedroom, shares a flat in Prince Edward with his parents and sister Eunice. “What makes me angry is that the government allows mainland people to buy those very limited resources of land. The property agencies drive the prices so high that we cannot afford them,” Wai says

Two years into his career after graduating from a top Hong Kong university, he puts money aside, gives some to his parents and pays his student loan, which doesn’t leave him with enough to get his own flat. “I’m considering emigrating. To Singapore or Thailand. The reason is that I’m disappointed about the future of Hong Kong. I can see the Chinese government further suspending our rights.”





Zaleena Ho. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters
*ZALEENA HO, 22.* The film studies graduate lives with her parents in Mei Foo and is pictured here in her 75 sq ft bedroom. “It’s getting worse politically. Most of us are trying our best to maintain what we’ve earned,” Ho says. “I have a US passport. I can just leave but I have hope that we can change something. If things turn really bad, I’ll run away. But we are still here fighting






Maisy Mok. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters

*MAISY MOK, 22.* Pictured in her 97 sq ft bedroom, Mok, who is studying international journalism, lives in Fo Tan with her father. He sleeps on a sofa as the flat is too small to fit another bed. Her parents are divorced. “I feel bad that my dad has to sleep on the couch, because everybody deserves their own privacy,” Mok says

“Those of us who were born around the 1997 handover, we know we are Hong Kong people. We don’t have the sense that we are Chinese citizens until we get to secondary school. We have our own unique language. It’s harder for us to transition because we have this thought that we are Hongkongers, this identity, we hold it very strongly. I feel I could never let go of freedom of speech. I feel like the judiciary system in Hong Kong is pretty good. And I love political satire. These are the things that got me into journalism and politics.

“If these were taken away, even with the money and benefits that the mainland can bring, or bigger housing, I wouldn’t feel happy about it. Sometimes it feels like you are trapped. So for us, who are used to this kind of freedom, we might not get used to it.”





Ruka Tong. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters

*RUKA TONG, 21.* Tong, a student, shares her 118 sq ft room with her two sisters. Their parents live in the same Tai Wo Hau flat. Until last year, the family of five lived in a 300 sq ft room. “You see me always at work to earn more money to buy a flat. I work seven days a week in five jobs. One office job and four jobs giving tutorial classes. Just two to three hours’ resting time. I need to earn more money to save for academia and for my family,” Tong says

“There are so many pressures in Hong Kong, price pressure, academic pressure. I don’t want the future generation to face this problem.”





Roy Lam. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters

*ROY LAM, 23.* Lam, seen here in his 75 sq ft bedroom, works in human resources and lives with his mother and four sisters in Yau Ma Tei. “We’d rather lose standing up than lose sitting down,” Lam says. He believes young people are determined to stand up for what they deserve but says it is hard to stay positive. “We do sometimes think, ‘Let’s just give up. Let’s just move to some place else.







Sonic Lee. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters

*SONIC LEE, 29.* The musician and composer, pictured in his 64 sq ft bedroom, shares a Diamond Hill flat with his mother. Lee says, “For me, the ‘umbrella revolution’ is like telling a story, it’s Marvel. But it’s not going to happen in Hong Kong. There are no superheroes. Nothing will happen in one big movement. I don’t believe it any more. If anything will change in Hong Kong it will be many small people doing many small things and you add them together

“Yes, I’m afraid [there will be] books I cannot read or works we cannot write or songs we cannot sing. At the same time, it makes art and music more powerful. Especially rock ’n’ roll. If I use music to talk about what is happening and what we need to fight for, then music will become important in this city.”





Michael Ho. Photo: Thomas Peter / Reuters

*MICHAEL HO, 24.* A graduate in government and international studies at Baptist University, Ho lives with his parents in Heng Fa Chuen. When Ho’s sister left home, he removed the wall separating her room from his and now has a double room measuring 118 sq ft.

He says the protests are about the unjust circumstances that prevent young people from living their dreams. “It’s just hopeless for young people to grow, to develop their careers, because of the pricing problem

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## 055_destroyer

The reason for their unhappiness is CPC never fully takeover Hongkong and revamp the whole old colonial British system. If CPC has full say over HongKong, they will long flatten a few mountain and make large area of flat land suitable for housing. Land nationalize by CPC will be distributed and many reserve for public housing.

But fact is China upholding old British era system is hindering such move. The only solution is for CPC to fully assimilate HongKong into Mainland China system.

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## Hamartia Antidote

055_destroyer said:


> The reason for their unhappiness is CPC never fully takeover Hongkong and revamp the whole old colonial British system. If CPC has full say over HongKong, they will long flatten a few mountain and make large area of flat land suitable for housing. Land nationalize by CPC will be distributed and many reserve for public housing.
> 
> But fact is China upholding old British era system is hindering such move. The only solution is for CPC to fully assimilate HongKong into Mainland China system.



If anything the local population has probably taken a dip due to the handover. The real problem is more likely mainland Chinese buying up property. Flattening mountains and putting up more apartments is only a temporary solution.


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## nang2

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Lol! The handover was over 20 years ago. These 20 somethings probably don’t even remember British rule.


Exactly, they have a hard time swallowing the fact that the youth in China have brighter future than they do. They dream of the "Golden" era when British ruled them and Chinese were in terrible condition. Look, when British ruled, they looked down upon their Chinese cousins. Life was great. Now, what the heck has happened?! IT MUST BE CHINESE FAULT!

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## Hamartia Antidote

nang2 said:


> Exactly, they have a hard time swallowing the fact that the youth in China have brighter future than they do. They dream of the "Golden" era when British ruled them and Chinese were in terrible condition. Look, when British ruled, they looked down upon their Chinese cousins. Life was great. Now, what the heck has happened?! IT MUST BE CHINESE FAULT!



I don’t think that has to do with it.

https://amp.economist.com/china/2018/10/20/an-influx-of-mainland-chinese-is-riling-hong-kong
*An influx of mainland Chinese is riling Hong Kong*

Inside an austere room in an industrial building in Hong Kong, a dozen or so middle-aged women, many with small children by their side, arrange chairs in a circle. They are new migrants from mainland China who have come to attend a free Cantonese-language conversation course run by a local ngo. The youngsters, who have recently enrolled at local schools, are already near-fluent. Their parents, however, often find themselves reverting to Mandarin, their mother tongue, when the going gets tough. Each time this happens, the instructor, a native Hong Konger, politely reminds them to stick to Cantonese, even if it makes their children blush.

The border between Hong Kong and mainland China operates much like an international one and mainlanders are not free to enter the city at will. But up to 150 mainland Chinese are allowed to settle in Hong Kong every day under the one-way permit scheme, a programme set up in 1980 that lets mainlanders apply to reunite with relatives in the territory. Since Hong Kong returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997, around *1m* mainland Chinese have immigrated to Hong Kong in this way, accounting for 90% of the city’s population growth in recent years. One source of the influx is marriages between mainlanders and locals, which account for a third of all marriages registered in the territory, up from just 7% in 1996.

...

In 2017 the population of Hong Kong was 7.93M. Adding 1M people is not insignificant.

Complaining that mountains should have been flattened to build more housing or blaming Thatcherism isn’t the root of the problem.


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## 055_destroyer

Hamartia Antidote said:


> If anything the local population has probably taken a dip due to the handover. The real problem is more likely mainland Chinese buying up property. Flattening mountains and putting up more apartments is only a temporary solution.



It's not a temporary solution but the only solution. First of all trying to put blame on mainlander just show your ignorant. Government can implement law to make foreign or non hongkonger buys housing that reaches certain pricing therefore protecting local or poor interest in housing. The very reason why hk housing price is short of land. By flattening a mountain. You can easily build at least a hundred multi storey housing to store few hundred thousand people. With huge supply, it will drive down pricing as supply outstrip demand. It has proven in Singapore but unfortunately, CPC are not able to fully handle this situation as CPC respect one country 2 systems. It is hongkong law and system that is the stumbling block.

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## nang2

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I don’t think that has to do with it.
> 
> https://amp.economist.com/china/2018/10/20/an-influx-of-mainland-chinese-is-riling-hong-kong
> *An influx of mainland Chinese is riling Hong Kong*
> 
> Inside an austere room in an industrial building in Hong Kong, a dozen or so middle-aged women, many with small children by their side, arrange chairs in a circle. They are new migrants from mainland China who have come to attend a free Cantonese-language conversation course run by a local ngo. The youngsters, who have recently enrolled at local schools, are already near-fluent. Their parents, however, often find themselves reverting to Mandarin, their mother tongue, when the going gets tough. Each time this happens, the instructor, a native Hong Konger, politely reminds them to stick to Cantonese, even if it makes their children blush.
> 
> The border between Hong Kong and mainland China operates much like an international one and mainlanders are not free to enter the city at will. But up to 150 mainland Chinese are allowed to settle in Hong Kong every day under the one-way permit scheme, a programme set up in 1980 that lets mainlanders apply to reunite with relatives in the territory. Since Hong Kong returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997, around *1m* mainland Chinese have immigrated to Hong Kong in this way, accounting for 90% of the city’s population growth in recent years. One source of the influx is marriages between mainlanders and locals, which account for a third of all marriages registered in the territory, up from just 7% in 1996.
> 
> ...
> 
> In 2017 the population of Hong Kong was 7.93M. Adding 1M people is not insignificant.
> 
> Complaining that mountains should have been flattened to build more housing or blaming Thatcherism isn’t the root of the problem.


then what is it? why don't you state it clearly, instead of asking me to guess from a news piece.

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## Hamartia Antidote

nang2 said:


> then what is it? why don't you state it clearly, instead of asking me to guess from a news piece.



You can just set aside sections of Hong Kong as only eligible to native Hong Kongers. Those sections will decrease in value while the others go up.


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## beijingwalker

Simple way is to lift up all the restrictions and let people from mainland to marginlize the true locals, China holds all the cards, it's just about how China wants to play them.

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## Mista

055_destroyer said:


> The reason for their unhappiness is CPC never fully takeover Hongkong and revamp the whole old colonial British system. If CPC has full say over HongKong, they will long flatten a few mountain and make large area of flat land suitable for housing. Land nationalize by CPC will be distributed and many reserve for public housing.
> 
> But fact is China upholding old British era system is hindering such move. The only solution is for CPC to fully assimilate HongKong into Mainland China system.





Hamartia Antidote said:


> If anything the local population has probably taken a dip due to the handover. The real problem is more likely mainland Chinese buying up property. Flattening mountains and putting up more apartments is only a temporary solution.



To be fair, HK's property prices has always been high even before the handover in 1997. HKers themselves are wealthy enough to speculate property prices even without the rich from mainland China. It's in the vested interest of the middle-class and the government to keep prices high.

If it's as simple as flattening mountains and returning to CPC rule, property prices should be affordable in China's big cities right? Then how's the situation in Beijing, Shanghai, or next door Shenzhen?









Mista said:


> *Hong Kong*
> Average price per gross square meter in May: HKD118K
> Median monthly income in 2018: HKD16,400
> Months of income to buy 1 gross square meter: 7.2 months
> 
> Source:
> https://en.midland.com.hk/property-price-chart/ (1sqm=10.76sqft)
> https://www.scmp.com/business/artic...-us2550-month-70-cent-median-household-income
> 
> *Beijing*
> Average price per gross square meter in July: CNY60K
> Average monthly income in 2018: CNY7,900
> Months of income to buy 1 gross square meter: 7.6 months
> 
> Source:
> https://beijing.anjuke.com/market/
> http://www.bj.xinhuanet.com/bjyw/2019-05/31/c_1124565767.htm



https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-danger-of-fake-news.626119/#post-11609042
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-danger-of-fake-news.626119/page-2#post-11611184

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## Nan Yang

Mista said:


> To be fair, HK's property prices has always been high even before the handover in 1997. HKers themselves are wealthy enough to speculate property prices even without the rich from mainland China. It's in the vested interest of the middle-class and the government to keep prices high.
> 
> If it's as simple as flattening mountains and returning to CPC rule, property prices should be affordable in China's big cities right? Then how's the situation in Beijing, Shanghai, or next door Shenzhen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-danger-of-fake-news.626119/#post-11609042
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-danger-of-fake-news.626119/page-2#post-11611184


Hong Kong is going to be part of the greater bay area. China is linking ShenZhen, Hong Kong and Guangzhou with high speed metro. So why not buy or rent a large apartment in Shenzhen and commute to Hong Kong to work.

Route of Guangzhou–Shenzhen–Hong Kong 




Commute times.

Hong Kong (West Kowloon) – Shenzhen-Futian: 14 minutes

Hong Kong (West Kowloon) – Shenzhen (North): 19 minutes (fastest)

Hong Kong (West Kowloon) – Guangzhou (South): 47 minutes
China is the solution. Not the problem.

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## Mista

Nan Yang said:


> So why not buy or rent a large apartment in Shenzhen and commute to Hong Kong to work.



It's like asking why aren't more Singaporeans moving to JB and commute back to work, even though we are just separated by a bridge. Because property prices aren't everything, and the commute is tiring and expensive. Otherwise there won't be 150 mainlanders moving to HK everyday when they can just live in SZ and commute to HK.

Rent and prices in Shenzhen isn't exactly cheap anyway, it's more expensive than Singapore and is one of the most expensive in China. Look at the chart above.


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## Nan Yang

Mista said:


> It's like asking why aren't more Singaporeans moving to JB and commute back to work, even though we are just separated by a bridge. Because property prices aren't everything, and the commute is tiring and expensive. Otherwise there won't be 150 mainlanders moving to HK everyday when they can just live in SZ and commute to HK.
> 
> Rent and prices in Shenzhen isn't exactly cheap anyway, it's more expensive than Singapore and is one of the most expensive in China. Look at the chart above.


Same problem all over the world. 
Or buy an apartment far away in Guangzhou, rent it out and use the rent to subsidize your rent in Hong Kong and in 20 years your apartment in Guangzhou will be worth a million dollars.

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## Mista

Nan Yang said:


> Same problem all over the world.
> Or buy an apartment far away in Guangzhou, rent it out and use the rent to subsidize your rent in Hong Kong and in 20 years your apartment in Guangzhou will be worth a million dollars.



And that's exactly property speculation which is causing prices to spiral in HK and mainland China.

What for again, if you're just a middle-class in HK? Even if you have the money to pay for the down payment, there are many investment choices than just property. You have to pay interest, property taxes, utilities, maintenance, all kinds of hidden fees if you do buy an apartment in Guangzhou. There's no guarantee that you will have good returns.


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## 055_destroyer

Mista said:


> To be fair, HK's property prices has always been high even before the handover in 1997. HKers themselves are wealthy enough to speculate property prices even without the rich from mainland China. It's in the vested interest of the middle-class and the government to keep prices high.
> 
> If it's as simple as flattening mountains and returning to CPC rule, property prices should be affordable in China's big cities right? Then how's the situation in Beijing, Shanghai, or next door Shenzhen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-danger-of-fake-news.626119/#post-11609042
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-danger-of-fake-news.626119/page-2#post-11611184


If you think price in Shanghai or Beijing is expensive. Move to changsa, move to yunan. There is still houses there for you to live with great price and it's still in China. CPC don't owe you for a must to live major cities. That is luxury and not basic need. You are mixing things up.

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## Mista

055_destroyer said:


> If you think price in Shanghai or Beijing is expensive. Move to changsa, move to yunan. There is still houses there for you to live with great price and it's still in China. CPC don't owe you for a must to live major cities. That is luxury and not basic need. You are mixing things up.



You're the one mixing things up and missing my point. I'm not talking about mainland Chinese in the smaller cities, but rather the CPC's ability to solve the housing issue in the big cities. 

What happened to your logic of flattening mountains and return to CPC rule to solve HK's housing crisis? Is HK with a GDP per capita of $50K more like Beijing or Yunnan? Maybe you should just recommend HKers to move to Yunnan then?


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## nang2

Hamartia Antidote said:


> You can just set aside sections of Hong Kong as only eligible to native Hong Kongers. Those sections will decrease in value while the others go up.


That is just life. Nothing is set in stone and will last forever. It is mainly driven by competition among people. Despite the loser's life will be affected and he sure won't like it, it propels human civilization forward.


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## 055_destroyer

Mista said:


> You're the one mixing things up and missing my point. I'm not talking about mainland Chinese in the smaller cities, but rather the CPC's ability to solve the housing issue in the big cities.
> 
> What happened to your logic of flattening mountains and return to CPC rule to solve HK's housing crisis? Is HK with a GDP per capita of $50K more like Beijing or Yunnan? Maybe you should just recommend HKers to move to Yunnan then?


Once again. You failed to understand. One China 2 system. Hongkonger cannot come to China and enjoy all benefit of Mainland China. They are not entitle to those housing. Same as mainlander cannot enter HongKong and enjoy welfare or even buy their housing. They are restriction in place. Another of your apple, orange comparison which is irrelevant. If one China 2 system is removed for Hong Kong. Hong konger are free to move to Yunan or Changsa but they are also subjected to mainland CPC law. They are fully integrated in CPC system. One China 2 system is the root of the problem for Hong Kong.

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## Hamartia Antidote

nang2 said:


> That is just life. Nothing is set in stone and will last forever. It is mainly driven by competition among people. Despite the loser's life will be affected and he sure won't like it, it propels human civilization forward.



You do realize this is one of the examples of how the rich get richer and the poorer get poorer. The richer people buy up the property and rent it out to the less fortunate. 

Hey wait a minute didn’t a certain country have a revolution due to this...the name simply eludes me..


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## nang2

Hamartia Antidote said:


> You do realize this is one of the examples of how the rich get richer and the poorer get poorer. The richer people buy up the property and rent it out to the less fortunate.
> 
> Hey wait a minute didn’t a certain country have a revolution due to this...the name simply eludes me..


Buying up property and renting it out to the less fortunate doesn't make the rich richer and the poor poorer. It is just a normal investment. If investment makes the rich richer and the poor poorer, how the hell did human civilization ever progress?

What you should focus is the affordability, which has a lot to do with supply and demand, particularly the supply, where the government can have a big impact. Real estate investment, naturally, will drive up the supply when the price goes up, unless the government prevents it. You could blame the government for un-affordable housing, but not the real estate investment.

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## Mista

055_destroyer said:


> Once again. You failed to understand. One China 2 system. Hongkonger cannot come to China and enjoy all benefit of Mainland China. They are not entitle to those housing. Same as mainlander cannot enter HongKong and enjoy welfare or even buy their housing. They are restriction in place. Another of your apple, orange comparison which is irrelevant. If one China 2 system is removed for Hong Kong. Hong konger are free to move to Yunan or Changsa but they are also subjected to mainland CPC law. They are fully integrated in CPC system. One China 2 system is the root of the problem for Hong Kong.



Why do you keep missing the point?

I'm not talking about moving to smaller cities. You might as well say property prices aren't even a problem for most of the world since they can simply move or migrate elsewhere. Such an easy argument huh?

I'm attacking your claim that HK returning to CPC's rule will make HK's housing affordable, by pointing the fact that housing isn't affordable in the mainland's big cities as well. If Beijing/Shanghai aren't affordable, what makes you think that the CPC can make HK, a much denser financial hub with twice the GDP per capita, affordable? Simply flatten mountains to free up land will expand the housing supply and bring prices down? You're unbelievably naive.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Mista said:


> Why do you keep missing the point?
> 
> I'm not talking about moving to smaller cities. You might as well say property prices aren't even a problem for most of the world since they can simply move or migrate elsewhere. Such an easy argument huh?
> 
> I'm attacking your claim that HK returning to CPC's rule will make HK's housing affordable, by pointing the fact that housing isn't affordable in the mainland's big cities as well. If Beijing/Shanghai aren't affordable, what makes you think that the CPC can make HK, a much denser financial hub with twice the GDP per capita, affordable? Simply flatten mountains to free up land will expand the housing supply and bring prices down? You're unbelievably naive.



The simple solution is to tear down the buildings at the very center of the city and build 5000 Burj Khalifas. Apparently there is no shortage of people who can afford the cost.


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## Mista

Hamartia Antidote said:


> The simple solution is to tear down the buildings at the very center of the city and build 5000 Burj Khalifas. Apparently there is no shortage of people who can afford the cost.







3:42

If you've been to HK you will realize they have plenty of empty land; the government just don't want to redevelop them. Because property prices doesn't concern just land supply, but also the financial system and the society. If prices drop massively, what will happen to those who geared into the market with high leverage? Nest-egg of the middle-class? Where is the government going to get the revenue?

You see, it involves a lot of vested interests right now it's kind of a catch-22 situation. Bending down to environmental concerns is just an excuse. It's certainly not as simple as flattening mountains or slapping more duties to bring down prices. Not just in China but it's the same in every country. Australia is one example with plenty of land but high property prices as well.

Try reading these 2 posts which I explained more in depth.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-danger-of-fake-news.626119/#post-11609042
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-danger-of-fake-news.626119/page-2#post-11611184

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## Menthol

Demonstrators are organized by USA puppet NGO.

So far what we hear is their opinion, but never the silent population.

Only those vocal people like triad members. But are they real triads? Or just a propaganda excuse?

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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...s-occupy-part-hong-kong-international-airport







Aviation workers were among an estimated 15,000 protesters who staged a sit-in at Hong Kong International Airport in a bid to win international support for the movement against the
now-suspended extradition bill
.
Dressed in black, the demonstrators gathered in the arrival hall of the global transport hub on Friday afternoon to tell foreign travellers about their anti-government campaign.

Ahead of the peaceful protest, airport bosses arranged extra security and encouraged passengers to allow plenty of time for their journeys, but there was no disruption to flights as of 4pm, with the rally ongoing.

“We want to share this news with tourists, to let the world know about Hong Kong,” said one of the protest’s co-organisers, a flight attendant who declined to give her name.






The political storm triggered by the bill had resulted in weeks of street protests and clashes and put the city under the spotlight.

“We need the international community. We need people to voice out for us. Maybe on television, you don’t know the full story, but here we have videos and more information and we’re ready to talk to people to explain what is happening,” she said.

At least two areas of the airport’s arrival hall were occupied by the afternoon as people sat and chanted for the extradition bill to be fully withdrawn, including the cry of “free Hong Kong”

One placard called for Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor to be “offloaded”, an aviation reference to removing a passenger from a plane, as protesters called for the Hong Kong leader’s resignation.

As well as the sit-in, a small
Lennon Wall
appeared at the airport, where people posted supportive messages for protesters and notes in opposition to the extradition bill.

The sit-in had attracted scores of bystanders, looking on from various vantage points in the airport.







More than 14,600 signatures had also been collected from tourists, residents and industry workers during the action as they demanded that police arrest those who
indiscriminately attacked passengers and protesters returning from an anti-bill march on Sunday in Yuen Long.

They also called for an independent inquiry to look into what they called excessive use of force by police when handling anti-bill protests over the past month.

Some protesters walked around the airport to speak to travellers and posters and leaflets were distributed in what they said was an attempt to correct the police and government’s version of the shocking events in Yuen Long.

The protest action, organised by workers within the airport community, started at 1pm and was set to continue to the end of Friday.

The threat of an escalation emerged during the protest with air traffic controllers (ATC) raising the possibility of taking industrial action in the form of being “uncooperative”, according to pan-democrat lawmaker Jeremy Tam Man-ho.

Tam read out an open letter which came from an unknown number of staff from the Civil Aviation Department.

“We do not rule out the possibility of taking further action such as an uncooperative movement,” the letter written by “professional and conscientious” ATC staff said.






The Airport Authority (AA), which runs HKIA, added extra security to supervise the protest while the airport and airlines all urged passengers to ensure they reach the airport in “sufficient time”.

“The AA will work closely with its business partners to ensure smooth airport operations ... and [it] hopes that participants of the activities could avoid affecting passengers and airport operations,” an AA spokesman said.

Tensions in the city have stemmed from the controversial extradition bill, which would have allowed Hong Kong to transfer suspects to jurisdictions with which it lacked official handover agreements, including mainland China.

Critics feared it would remove the legal firewall between the city and the mainland, exposing suspects to opaque trials across the border.

*Hong Kong No 2 says sorry for police response to Yuen Long attack*
Cathay Pacific Airways, the city’s biggest airline, said it had received an unspecified number of enquiries from its customers, prompting it tell to customers that flights would depart unaffected.

“We would like to reassure customers that our flights to and from Hong Kong International Airport are operating as normal,” an airline spokeswoman said.

Stephen Leather, who lives in Melbourne and was in the airport following a holiday in Hong Kong, said the protests did not deter him from visiting the city.

He said he was mindful to avoid flashpoints, in reference to the horrifying violence in Yuen Long on Sunday.

“We knew where the protests were going to be so we stayed out of that area. It makes you wary of going to certain areas of the city that’s for sure,” he said.

“We hope they would continue their peaceful protest.”

The 60-year-old, who works in the aviation industry on aircraft cabin products, said providing there was no escalation of the protests and that it remained peaceful, he would be happy to come back to the city.

An airport ground handling worker, surnamed Chow, spent her lunchtime supporting the sit-in.

“I am just too angry with the Hong Kong government. The city is not safe any more,” she said.

“The police cannot protect us any more. I would like to support every Hongkonger. I don’t want to oppose the China government, I just want to live in a safe place.”


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## Three_Kingdoms

There was an indian in the rally insulting China but was f*cked by the mobsters telling him to go back home and fix their toilets.

I dont know whether this serves as a revelation to anyone in the forum here!



Menthol said:


> Demonstrators are organized by USA puppet NGO.
> 
> So far what we hear is their opinion, but never the silent population.
> 
> Only those vocal people like triad members. But are they real triads? Or just a propaganda excuse?



There were lots of triads in the "black-T" and some have already been arrested for other crimes reported below:

*Four men with triad backgrounds arrested over petrol bomb attacks on Hong Kong police*
*https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3013507/firebomb-hurled-patrol-van-early-morning-hong-kong*

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## Hamartia Antidote

Just another day in China...


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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...protests-yuen-long-residents-keep-their-heads






As clashes broke out in Yuen Long during protests against the mob violence that rocked the town a week ago, villagers, residents and businesses remained calm.

Normally packed with food and nature lovers at the weekend, the suburb town was marred by chaotic scenes on Saturday, as thousands of protesters marched from Shui Pin Tsuen Playground to the Yuen Long MTR station.

Tensions were particularly heightened around the villages, as marchers surrounded the area amid a heavy police presence. Police had earlier rejected the organisers’ application
to hold the protest
.
In Nam Pin Wai, hundreds of people gathered outside the village believed to be the home of some of the more than 100 men who beat up travellers in Yuen Long MTR station last Sunday.

At least 45 people were injured by the mob in the attack, with some of the victims being those who had marched against the government’s now-suspended extradition bill. Some of the 12 people arrested have been linked with triad gangs.

“Gangsters, come out and put up a fight,” some shouted as the march was about 20 metres from the village


Some villagers wore helmets and face masks, but one put up a sign that read: “Come and go safely.”

As tensions boiled over, police fired tear gas, and some protesters reacted by dashing towards the canisters to cover them and prevent them from emitting smoke, or even to try and throw them back at officers.

A private car was seen smashed up outside Yuen Long Station at around 9pm. Protesters smashed the windshield and broke open the trunk, where they found wooden batons, metal pipes and a samurai style sword. An army style hat was also found inside the car.

Protesters suggested the items inside the car resembled weapons used by the men responsible for the attacks last Sunday.





Anti-extradition bill protesters march down Castle Peak Road, in Yuen Long. Photo: Sam Tsang

Democratic Party lawmaker Roy Kwong Chun-yu said it was wrong for police to fire tear gas on On Lok Road and Tai Cheung Street, as it could affect old people living in several elderly care homes in the area.

But an employee at the Friendly Home for the Aged said: “We are not affected, as we closed our windows.”

Another staff member at Fu Hong Home for the Elderly said: “Everything went on as usual here, and they [residents] are watching television.”

*As it happened: Bloody clash in train station between protesters and police*
But a 50-year-old unemployed woman, who only identified herself as June, said she was worried when she walked back to her home at a nearby village.

“There shouldn’t be chaos,” she said, and complained that the protests had disrupted traffic and forced her to walk 30 minutes back to her home.

Still, some residents appeared tolerant.

Rachel Lam, 35, who joined the protest with her husband, before the tear gas was fired, said it was police who triggered the chaos.

“We were walking peacefully. It was police officers who made it not peaceful,” she said.


She said the situation in the afternoon was calm, but admitted her daily life had been affected as she did not dare bring her children outside.

The housewife said she had bought food for two to three days, because she did not know whether shops would be closed on Sunday.

Another resident, retiree Sammy Lam Kin, 51, said the protests had limited impact on him because he mostly just stayed at home.

On the eve of the protests, locals had prepared themselves for any disruption, and
many stockpiled food
.
*Second police union blasts chief secretary over Yuen Long apology*
By midday on Saturday, more than a quarter of shops in Castle Peak Road, around the Tai Tong Road light rail stop in Yuen Long, had closed.

Ken Lam, the owner of Dai Won Ton noodle shop, said the number of customers had fallen dramatically.

Asked whether he had seen this many businesses shutting their doors before, he said: “Only when a typhoon hits the city.”





Lawmaker Roy Kwong appeared at the protest in Yuen Long, which took place despite police denying organisers’ application to hold the march. Photo: Sam Tsang

But Mr Lui, who owns a shop that sells old Hainanese chicken rice, was more at ease, and offered free water to passers-by.

“After the violence last Sunday, if we don’t open our shop today, then it will only heighten fears further,” he said.

In a Facebook group dedicated to the Yuen Long community, there was a mixed range of views over the protests.

A user named Alan To said the march was fine and everyone was happily buying cakes, but “when police and triads arrive, it becomes this chaotic.”

Meanwhile, George Hugo called for the “rioters” to be arrested and demanded they “return me my home!”

Another user called Tai Man Chan thanked protesters for coming to Yuen Long, but added: “It’s late, please go home soon.”

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## Nilgiri

whats real BS was the white hat triad types that were hired for dirty work against the protestors.

It was even made to sound that the protestors were behind that awful violence for a while (perpetrated by the triad scum).

My support has swung back to the protestors again overall. They however should not deface public property and keep the protests as peaceful as possible.


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## gangsta_rap

@Hamartia Antidote cut that mufuggin trash talkin out whitey aint nothin right that them folks doin in the streets
gonna wait till the cops get called their gonna clean the trash out throw them worked up folks away

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## 055_destroyer

Nilgiri said:


> whats real BS was the white hat triad types that were hired for dirty work against the protestors.
> 
> It was even made to sound that the protestors were behind that awful violence for a while (perpetrated by the triad scum).
> 
> My support has swung back to the protestors again overall. They however should not deface public property and keep the protests as peaceful as possible.








Yes, the protestor are all peaceful and non violcence. Everything is Hong Kong police and China fault.

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## lcloo

TWO generations ago cheap goods from Hong Kong were labelled simply *“Made in Hong Kong*,” but their poor quality soon made that embarrassing.

For marketing reasons they were then labelled “*Made in the British Empire*” or “*Empire Made*.” Britain, home of the First Industrial Revolution, was better regarded than any Far Eastern outpost.

However, manufacturing could never suffice for Hong Kong’s economy because of limited land and rising property prices.

Enter the space-efficient financial services industry, along with development of port services. Then a generation ago Hong Kong began to face its biggest challenge: China’s spectacular rise.

But if Hong Kong would be part of China again, wouldn’t it also enjoy the mainland’s rising fortunes?

Hong Kongers always had a problem with the first part ever since Britain’s takeover in 1841.

From the late-1970s the West was all for China’s “opening up” policies. Hong Kongers looked across the water to see Shenzhen’s phenomenal rise from old market town to bustling modern metropolis.

*Shenzhen had twice Hong Kong’s population* and a much faster rate of development. As just one cog in China’s production behemoth, Shenzhen soon buried Hong Kong’s prospect as a manufacturing centre.

In global references Hong Kong-Shenzhen-Guangzhou is the world’s biggest productive mega region, demographically twice the size of the next biggest in Nagoya-Osaka-Kyoto-Kobe.

But Hong Kongers still regarded themselves as a breed apart from the mainland – a “Made in the British Empire” attitude dies hard.

Surely Hong Kong still had superlative status as a leading port and financial services centre?

Not quite, especially when Shanghai would soon outclass it on both counts.

Hong Kong slipped to fifth place among the world’s busiest container ports. Among the world’s Top 10, six are now on China’s mainland.

The Shanghai Municipality’s population is 3.5 times Hong Kong’s, with an area 5.7 times as large, meaning a more relaxed population density of just 62% of Hong Kong’s.

*Shanghai’s 2018 nominal GDP was US$494bil (RM2.04 trillion), which was 136.1% of Hong Kong’s*. Even Shenzhen is catching up with Hong Kong, falling short by just 3.3%.

Business is Hong Kong’s business, but the mainland is doing better in both performance and prospects.

The Hong Kong stock market is not necessarily stable. Since the 1960s it has experienced a dozen market crashes.

Shanghai’s Stock Exchange market capitalisation of US$5.01 trillion is larger than Hong Kong’s by 26.5%. Hong Kong’s exceeded Shenzhen’s by only 12.8%.

Hong Kong as business enclave has been eclipsed and outdone by the mainland. At the same time its future increasingly depends on the mainland.

Since 1997, Hong Kong dropped from representing 20% to just 3% of China’s GDP.

For China today Hong Kong is just another Chinese city, meaning it is dispensable. Shenzhen and the rest of the mainland do not need a nettlesome Hong Kong for China’s continued rise.

Hong Kong protesters have committed at least a dozen strategic errors.

One, they assume Hong Kong is essential to the mainland’s future when *only the reverse is true*. There is no equivalence between Hong Kong and the mainland in any way that works for Hong Kong.

Two, protest appeals to mainlanders for support mistakenly attempt to rekindle the spirit of Tienanmen Square protests a generation ago.

Those protesters are now part of the system in a prosperous new China, actively engaged in business or government. Their original 1989 complaint of corruption in high places is keenly addressed by Beijing.

Three, attempts to solicit mainlanders’ support are badly confused with prejudice against them. Within days of trying to spread the protest message to mainlanders in July, protesters attacked mainland traders, shoppers and tourists.

Four, *protesters violently attacked police personnel*, alienating many Hong Kongers including most protesters. It signalled a *slide towards civil disorde*r.

Five, vandalising the Legislative Council building established *illegal conduct and further alienated everyone else*.

Six, *more violence* was targeted at the liaison office when sympathisers had thought protesters would never do that. It confirmed the *criminality discrediting the protests* as a whole.

Seven, besides disrupting traffic and commerce, *harassing passengers at the airport and train stations*. It did nothing to promote their cause to the general public but quite the opposite.

Eight, *protests did not subside even after Hong Kong’s Executive backed down on the extradition Bill*. It revealed the unreasonable nature of the protests.

Nine, *no protester had demanded democracy for Hong Kong in 156 years of British colonial rule*. If they had, they may have a legitimate basis for demanding democracy today.

Ten, it was foolish to unfurl the *Union Jack* and call for reverting to *British rule*. Seeking the denial of democracy by a foreign hand exposes the hypocrisy of the protests.

Eleven, it was foolhardy to unfurl “Old Glory,” calling for *US intervention* during a US-China trade war. With trade a major basis of Hong Kong’s survival, it was politically suicidal.

Twelve, protesters fail to understand that no other country can or would do what is necessary to boost Hong Kong’s fortunes. Only the mainland can do that if it wants to.

Young protesters still to find employment amid poor conditions and rising costs may think they have legitimate grievances.

Yet all the solutions – more investment, better job prospects, even improved governance – can come meaningfully only via the mainland.

Beijing can deploy troops to Hong Kong, but to what end?

Hong Kong’s worst punishment is getting exactly what the protesters want – isolation. That will leave it further behind as the mainland prospers, surging ahead.

Hong Kong can stew in its own juices until tender. Beijing may let the anger fester and rot until then.

Hong Kong’s strength as money-making hub is also its weakness. Its stock market can crash again, which can also send a message to Taiwan.

Hong Kong tycoons are already looking for more places abroad to stash their fortunes. *Without decisive mainland investment*, the economic enclave can die a natural death.

What’s left of Hong Kong’s Establishment will then surely discipline rowdy mobs. The triads have already shown leadership here, symbolising the decline.

*Bunn Nagara is a Senior Fellow at the Institute of Strategic and International Studies (ISIS) Malaysia. The views expressed are entirely the writer’s own.*


Read more at https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2019/07/28/hong-kong-in-decline/#3TMF7RDRDTYhqb3Q.99

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## Three_Kingdoms

055_destroyer said:


> Yes, the protestor are all peaceful and non violcence. Everything is Hong Kong police and China fault.



"Protestors" - they are in-and-out hooligans and thugs!

Watch these black shirt scumbags that the indians and hahaha the "west" or "white" men are cheerleading for:






The thugs claimed the MTR assistants were beating them after what the assistants did were pushing the thugs inside of the train so as to shut the doors. It happened in what the thugs and supporting gangs hailed as the "un-corporative movement" causing massive inconvenience to the innocent commuters during peak hours in the city.


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## Mrc

Chinese shud not delay the inevitable .. Too much time has been given


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## Three_Kingdoms

Mrc said:


> Chinese shud not delay the inevitable .. Too much time has been given



Our government and police can pick the right time to do the right thing.
The steams of the thugs are dying and drying out.
It was a huge reduction in no. of thugs turning out in Yuen Long yesterday.
The ring-leaders may have a trip to the states once again begging for more money.












Look at Pence' left thumb!


















It is circulating on the internet with the following price tag:
Front-line thugs actively fighting, causing dmages/destructions: HK$5,000 per head per event
Second-line support, building barricades, digging out road-bricks, dismantling road signs/street furniture ... yelling shouting, pushing works: HK$3,000/head/event
Way behind the frontier of violence and vandalism - like passing supplies to the front line such as helmets, goggles, water, masks: HK$500/head/event


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## KhanBaba2

Mrc said:


> Chinese shud not delay the inevitable .. Too much time has been given



What do you think is the inevitable.



Three_Kingdoms said:


> It is circulating on the internet with the following price tag:
> Front-line actively fighting, destruction thugs: HK$5,000 per head per event
> Second-line support, building barricades, digging out road-bricks, dismantling road signs/public furniture ... yelling shouting, pushing works: HK$3,000/head/event
> Way behind the frontier of violence and vandalism - like passing helmets, googles, water, mouth gags: HK$500/head/event



So according to you every event is costing billions of $ to someone.


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## CIA Mole

KhanBaba2 said:


> What do you think is the inevitable.
> 
> 
> 
> So according to you every event is costing billions of $ to someone.



It’s 1:8 usd hkd.
Anyone know how to participate? Do they pay extra for being foreigner? (Asking for friend)


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## Three_Kingdoms

KhanBaba2 said:


> What do you think is the inevitable.
> 
> So according to you every event is costing billions of $ to someone.



what "billions"?

Again I can keep posting this:

*US Now Admits it is Funding “Occupy Central” in Hong Kong*
By Tony Cartalucci
Global Research, July 06, 2019
https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-now-admits-it-is-funding-occupy-central-in-hong-kong/5405680

and these also:

*“Occupy Central” HongKong Funded by US Backers and Subsidiaries*
*https://anonhq.com/occupy-central-hongkong-funded-us-backers-subsidiaries/*


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## KhanBaba2

Three_Kingdoms said:


> what "billions"?



News are saying millions are protesting. @ 3K / protester, that comes to billions.


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## Three_Kingdoms

KhanBaba2 said:


> News are saying millions are protesting. @ 3K / protester, that comes to billions.



"millions" are faked up as the police have whittled the number down to hundred thousands.
The number in the recent processions have much reduced.

I am referring to the sequel of each and every so called "peaceful" demonstrations here. And it is a routine from the playbook that violent confrontation with the police follows the end of each demonstration walks.

Also not all thugs get paid I think.
Some of them are just stupid, having nothing to do but to get 'excitements" on the scene or to find a girl/boy friend because they share a common "interest".

Here is a clip of a lady representing a voice of justice revealing another plot of the thugs who present themselves as the "press" and the cost of getting a permit as such is just HK$150 bucks or less if you are a student.


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## 帅的一匹

Extradition law is targeting those rebellions and criminals in Hongkong, I call it a hit on the nail.



Wa Muhammada said:


> Will the Chinese start building massive internment camps for everyone in Hong Kong because it is a restive region and most of them oppose Chinese rule?
> 
> I remember Shaykh Nazim Al Haqqani (Rehmatullah Alayh) said that in the coming times, China will split into numerous parts. Ya Rabb help the oppressed.


Impossible

If those rebellions backed by CIA think they can take Hongkong as a base to overthrow China goverment, they are very wrong.

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## bbccdd1470

Three_Kingdoms said:


> "millions" are faked up as the police have whittled the number down to hundred thousands.
> The number in the recent processions have much reduced.
> 
> I am referring to the sequel of each and every so called "peaceful" demonstrations here. And it is a routine from the playbook that violent confrontation with the police follows the end of each demonstration walks.
> 
> Also not all thugs get paid I think.
> Some of them are just stupid, having nothing to do but to get 'excitements" on the scene or to find a girl/boy friend because they share a common "interest".
> 
> Here is a clip of a lady representing a voice of justice revealing another plot of the thugs who present themselves as the "press" and the cost of getting a permit as such is just HK$150 bucks or less if you are a student.


Why still waste time on here? If they go through all side of story, they should not support either side of BT and WT since they were all guilty. Just use your time on HK forums to help those who can still be saved, not here for those who don't even live in HK.

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## bbccdd1470

Three_Kingdoms said:


> I am not supporting the white T nor (of course NOT) the black ones.
> which HK forum do you recommend to me?


I was talking about the one you argued to, not you. 
HK discuss is the most rational one. Since you are from HK and you should already know some forums, try lihkg and hkgoldern but be careful those places are "Cockroach infestation". Some pro-HK people are actually recording criminal activities from those forums. Good luck to you.

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## Nan Yang

Mista said:


> And that's exactly property speculation which is causing prices to spiral in HK and mainland China.
> 
> What for again, if you're just a middle-class in HK? Even if you have the money to pay for the down payment, there are many investment choices than just property. You have to pay interest, property taxes, utilities, maintenance, all kinds of hidden fees if you do buy an apartment in Guangzhou. There's no guarantee that you will have good returns.


Gosh. There are 11 cities which are part of the greater Bay Area. Chose one along the rail route. And I am sure China will build more high speed metro to integrate the 11 cities.

Uurbanization of of China is the thing to watch.
These are old videos but relevant to how China urbanized.


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## the_messenger

The latest protest clearly shows disorganisation, many protesters do not know where to go and mostly occupy streets and clash with police, the concentration shows in the past protests is missing.
Many team leaders may have been arrested during previous clashes and especially during Saturday when cops corner them into an isolated station.
Good tactic there...


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## Hamartia Antidote

*July 28th*


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## lcloo

The continuation of the protest shows that the anti-extraction law protest is just an excuse to create chaos in Hong Kong, and an attempt to put Chinese central government in bad position.

Keen eyes observing the event can conclude that majority of die hard protestors are youngsters below 30 years old. The older generation do not agree with the way the youngsters behave during the protests.

External influences in universities and colleges is wide spread, even to the extend that these people refuse to acknowledge themselves as Chinese. They even used American flag and British colonial flag in the protest.

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## Nan Yang

This is heartbreaking  





Old man was accused of assaulting a man but he said just hit a piece of protest paper.
In the beginning of the video, his shoulder just touch a protester who was blocking him and the protester fell to the ground and he was then was accused of pushing him.

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## Nilgiri

055_destroyer said:


> Yes, the protestor are all peaceful and non violcence. Everything is Hong Kong police and China fault.



I don't support them doing this. I didnt say they are all non-violent and HK authorities must take action against violence-doers.

Both sides will just point fingers at the other saying its totally the other sides fault. In the end lets see what happens.


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## Menthol

The protest is already misleading.

At first, it's because of extradition law.

It has been solved, but they still keep protesting... in the end, it just makes the society lose sympathy for them, as they became more and more annoying, burden and the most important, traitorous act!

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## Menthol

HK is sinking.

Who is going to save it?

It should be among these young people... And these young people should be the future founders of Microsoft, Huawei, Google, etc like companies.

Instead of wasting time by protesting, it's better to do it with real action to save HK.


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## Nan Yang

Menthol said:


> HK is sinking.
> 
> Who is going to save it?
> 
> It should be among these young people... And these young people should be the future founders of Microsoft, Huawei, Google, etc like companies.
> 
> Instead of wasting time by protesting, it's better to do it with real action to save HK.


You have a very good point.
DJI, Huawei, BYD, Huada Gene, Tencent are all born in Shenzhen which used to be a fishing village. Today it's GDP is larger than Hong Kong. Shenzhen lies just across the border from Hong Kong. Only 20 mins from Kowloon.
TSMC was also offered land to build a waferfab in Hong Kong but nothing happened.

What has happened to Hong Kong?

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## Rasengan

They have no foot to stand on when these fools ask for democracy. Did the British in their infinite wisdom give the local population voting rights to elect a Governor? No.

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## Nan Yang

Hamartia Antidote said:


> That’s right. Have to agree! It’s a circus. Watching both sides fight it out is entertaining.
> 
> I’m not taking sides. Just waiting with the popcorn like Tiananmen to see if they bring in the tanks.


Or more likely the protesters and reporters will slowly drift away. Protests will become boring


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## Hamartia Antidote

Nan Yang said:


> Or more likely the protesters and reporters will slowly drift away. Protests will become boring



Always something to watch every day


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## The Eagle

_*Use this thread for all updates, news & discussion in regard to Hong Kong protests.*_

_*Regards,*_

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## Rasengan

Nan Yang said:


> This is heartbreaking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old man was accused of assaulting a man but he said just hit a piece of protest paper.
> In the beginning of the video, his shoulder just touch a protester who was blocking him and the protester fell to the ground and he was then was accused of pushing him.



This video was disgusting, how dare these cockroaches attack and humiliate such an old man. Not a single person intervened on his behalf. Bunch of cowards. HK people talk about education, is this the outcome? They should be ashamed of themselves and the parents have failed in their duty to teach their children manners.

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## Three_Kingdoms

Rasengan said:


> This video was disgusting, how dare these cockroaches attack and humiliate such an old man. Not a single person intervened on his behalf. Bunch of cowards. HK people talk about education, is this the outcome? They should be ashamed of themselves and the parents have failed in their duty to teach their children manners.



Those are 2 "lost" generations - from their parents to their kids - disillusioned by the glamour of the west and the so called "democracy" when China was much poorer and weak.

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## Rasengan

Three_Kingdoms said:


> That is exactly the irony of the whole fiasco and you can see the evilness of the Brits and the rogue state et al trying to uproot the control of the HK Government and work through many dirty tricks towards meeting their own favour in the name of "democracy (according to the rogue state usa)".
> 
> This is what's happening in HK, very well depicted!



I spoke to my friend on this subject but he still wouldn't relent, but we both knew he had no leg to stand on. He began laughing when I mentioned some of these rebel politicians were going to the States asking for some kind of intervention. He kept repeating this was CPC propaganda and no group was receiving funds. He even went on to say the bomb plot found by the HK police was a false flag operation. HK is falling apart.



Three_Kingdoms said:


> Those are 2 "lost" generations - from their parents to their kids - disillusioned by the glamour of the west and the so called "democracy" when China was much poorer and weak.



I agree. The sad thing is brother they don't even realize they have fallen for that disillusioned glamour made by the west prior to 1997.

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## bbccdd1470

Rasengan said:


> I spoke to my friend on this subject but he still wouldn't relent, but we both knew he had no leg to stand on. He began laughing when I mentioned some of these rebel politicians were going to the States asking for some kind of intervention. He kept repeating this was CPC propaganda and no group was receiving funds. He even went on to say the bomb plot found by the HK police was a false flag operation. HK is falling apart.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. The sad thing is brother they don't even realize they have fallen for that disillusioned glamour made by the west prior to 1997.


Thx for your post. I really lost my interest to reply any HK problems here since this is not worth the time and foreign member here claims to be netural is just putting salt into our wounds. However, I appreciate your post that let me know outsider still care what is happening in HK.

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## Rasengan

bbccdd1470 said:


> Thx for your post. I really lost my interest to reply any HK problems here since this is not worth the time and foregin member here claims to be netural is just putting salt into our wounds. However, I appreciate your post that let me know outsider still care what is happening in HK.



HK will always hold a special place in my heart. My first Chinese friend was from Hong Kong and he always speaks fondly of his city. The culture, language and people are unique. Other members of this forum may take glee watching the trouble unfold in HK but I find it sad. Don't worry brother, always remember to have hope because without it there would be despair. HK will rise again like a phoenix.

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## Yankee-stani

Rasengan said:


> HK will always hold a special place in my heart. My first Chinese friend was from Hong Kong and he always speaks fondly of his city. The culture, language and people are unique. Other members of this forum may take glee watching the trouble unfold in HK but I find it sad. Don't worry brother, always remember to have hope because without it there would be despair. HK will rise again like a phoenix.




China sucks at Public Relations first they failed in conveying the issues in Xinjiang which I think is more over extradiated to curry anti PRC feelings in neighboring Muslim countries heck in the US loads of my non Pakistani Muslim friends are cursing Pakistan and its support for China going to HK I am glad Beijing did not pull a Tiananmen here cause if that happen more excuse for west and their lackeys to.destablize the PRC but the CCP sucks *** at explaining their position

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## Rasengan

Hamartia Antidote said:


> That’s right. Have to agree! It’s a circus. Watching both sides fight it out is entertaining.
> 
> I’m not taking sides. Just waiting with the popcorn like Tiananmen to see if they bring in the tanks.



So you find the situation hilarious. Remember karma works in mysterious ways. When shit hits the fan in the US then we shall also enjoy the entertainment of chaos riding through your streets.



OsmanAli98 said:


> China sucks at Public Relations first they failed in conveying the issues in Xinjiang which I think is more over extradiated to curry anti PRC feelings in neighboring Muslim countries heck in the US loads of my non Pakistani Muslim friends are cursing Pakistan and its support for China going to HK I am glad Beijing did not pull a Tiananmen here cause if that happen more excuse for west and their lackeys to.destablize the PRC but the CCP sucks *** at explaining their position



I agree with your post. China must learn to improve its public relations. What works in China can't apply to the rest of the world. Furthermore, the timing of this bill was wrong. The intentions were good, but when you conduct an operation it should be planned. The best example is the financial markets. When the market fluctuates like the SPX500 did yesterday and fell sharply this wasn't a coincidence. It took careful planning by large operators to get their orders filled without alerting the public. The same situation applies to Hong Kong. They tried to introduce this bill a few days before Joshua Wong was going to be released and Trump is looking for an excuse to marginalize China. They should have waited for the results of the 2020 election. Britain is opening its mouth because its humiliated itself on Brexit thus needs to flex its muscle. China should have been patient for Britain to beg for a trade deal and in return they could have asked them to shut their mouth.

In regards to Xinjiang China needs to change its soft image. They need to hire brand new people who are competent. Furthermore, things aren't perfect but people need to be pragmatic. This region is important for Pakistan, I don't really care what other Muslim's think. I am only interested in Pakistan's national security and China is our closest ally. When you have good links with countries then you can lead them in the right direction. Even the Turks have fallen in line. But I agree the CPC sucks at explaining their position.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Three_Kingdoms said:


> Good Move!
> 
> 
> 
> That is exactly the irony of the whole fiasco and you can see the evilness of the Brits and the rogue state et al trying to uproot the control of the HK Government and work through many dirty tricks towards meeting their own favour in the name of "democracy (according to the rogue state usa)".
> 
> This is what's happening in HK, very well depicted!
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> add more rooms and room signs to the graphic... Venezuela and HK!
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> 
> I guess on the same token everybody who refuses to submit to the way of the rogue state should find these incidences "entertaining" too!
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> Do you want more?
> Shame on you!
> You're just a mega troll and an universal moron who hide behind a flag!



Reposting simple world news stories from well known media sites (usually Eastern ones) doesn’t make me a troll. I’m not writing them.

You getting all flustered, triggered, having your fragile glass heart shattering into so many pieces that you have resorted to lashing out at me personally and calling me some kind of a false flagger for posting it is more of being a troll.






BTW Do you really think the Chinese posters on here are posting good news stories about the US? LOL! Open your own eyes. If anybody trips on the sidewalk somebody here will be sure to post it. SpaceX launches a big rocket..they’ll troll the thread saying it was a failure.

I have better things to do than to be a troll and scour local Chinese news articles looking for some petty/sensational story like some random Uighur getting hauled away by the police so I can do some kind of pro #UighurOrgansMatter or post some kindergarten stabbing articles or how people are so poor in town A that they live in X and are forced to do Y and Z. That’s trolling.

@Dubious will agree.


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## Dubious

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Reposting simple world new stories from media sites doesn’t make me a troll. I’m not writing them.
> 
> You getting all flustered, triggered, having your fragile glass heart shattering into so many pieces that you have resorted to lashing out at me personally and calling me some kind of a false flagger for posting it is more of being a troll.
> 
> BTW Do you really think the Chinese posters on here are posting good news stories about the US? LOL! Open your own eyes.
> 
> 
> @Dubious will agree.


@Irfan Baloch


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## Rasengan

OsmanAli98 said:


> America still has at least another 20-30 year gap there is reason why the US is pushing the trade war with China and getting concerned about Beijing BRI ambitions I am neutral Pakistan should not be beholden to Washington or Beijing but extract benefits whenever



There is no doubt in my mind America is ahead of China. But this won't remain the case in the long term and Pakistan should hedge on China more. This doesn't mean we can't have a relationship with the United States, but we must remain cautious and history has always shown their duplicity. Pakistan is number one for us, we have to rise economically at all costs.

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## grandmaster

China can effectively subdue these rioting zombies by imposing restriction to any finance institution, banker, cellular provider and internet provider providing services to these rioting organizers. china can also ban any company hiring these rioting zombies from doing business in china or traveling to china.

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## Three_Kingdoms

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Reposting simple world news stories from well known media sites (usually Eastern ones) doesn’t make me a troll. I’m not writing them.
> 
> You getting all flustered, triggered, having your fragile glass heart shattering into so many pieces that you have resorted to lashing out at me personally and calling me some kind of a false flagger for posting it is more of being a troll.
> 
> View attachment 572107
> 
> 
> BTW Do you really think the Chinese posters on here are posting good news stories about the US? LOL! Open your own eyes. If anybody trips on the sidewalk somebody here will be sure to post it. SpaceX launches a big rocket..they’ll troll the thread saying it was a failure.
> 
> I have better things to do than to be a troll and scour local Chinese news articles looking for some petty/sensational story like some random Uighur getting hauled away by the police so I can do some kind of pro #UighurOrgansMatter or post some kindergarten stabbing articles or how people are so poor in town A that they live in X and are forced to do Y and Z. That’s trolling.
> 
> @Dubious will agree.



You are taking the recent riots that is happening in my city for a joy ride and that is disgusting (see below attachment of *your COMMENT*)!

Calling you a troll is already too kind to you for your persistent and ill-willed attitudes that always cast my Country and city in the worst lights.

I call you a false flagger because I think you have denied your own heritage which can be traced to the sub-continent.

Of course you can keep on saying you're a "white" american because no one can obtain the evidence to prove your falsehood.

If you think other members are not rightfully claiming the status of your country, then you offer your counter with a valid argument from a reliable source.

Regardless of whatever, I find your MENTALITY is very much indian!




Hamartia Antidote said:


> That’s right. Have to agree! It’s a circus. Watching both sides fight it out is entertaining.
> 
> I’m not taking sides. Just waiting with the popcorn like Tiananmen to see if they bring in the tanks.

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## hiseen

Don't deviate from the theme.
If Hong Kong Black T-shirt want to achieve their goals, They need to deal with this nearly 500 million Red fans (Xiaofenhong) first. A brutal battle.

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## lcloo

Hong Kong is in dangerous situation, any further riots, emergency law and curfew could be the answer.

Whatever happen, Hong Kong is facing the fate of Detroit decades ago. Too bad those young protestors never experience the real hardship of their forefathers, they will be in shock and confuse. They should migrate to Australia and Britain ASAP, but not USA I don't think Trump will change his immigration policy just to accommodate them.

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## the_messenger

Actually, I think it's completely opposite.
It looks to me that the police has infiltrated into protesters rank, maybe it's Beijing, who knows.
Basic 101 of any successful protest or color revolution is that you need to use the strength in number and fortification. You do that by occupying the certain high-value location, SINGLE LOCATION.
Tiananmen...
By fortification your sole location, you could use your number to the maximum and resist all arrest attempts.
Someone in protester rank has a brilliant idea of abandon the number and pursuit various places where the number is a few thousand, or even a few hundred, or even dozens.
As a result, the arrest number is skyrocketing.


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## Mista

*Hong Kong protests: how the city’s Reddit-like forum LIHKG has become the leading platform for organising demonstrations*

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...tests-how-citys-reddit-forum-lihkg-has-become
/
Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/

I'm not sure about HK, but Reddit is quite popular among Singapore's youth. It's a good platform to interact and understand how others of my generation think.


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## lcloo

Disrupting other Hong Kong citizens driving on a busy road.

Lawlessness in Hong Kong.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1158340213468352519

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## jaybird

lcloo said:


> Disrupting other Hong Kong citizens driving on a busy road.
> 
> Lawlessness in Hong Kong.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1158340213468352519



They are not Peaceful protesters. They are hooligans deliberately aimed at sabotaging Hong Kong anyway possible with foreign entities support. The Hong Kong government is dealing with them with kids gloves and emboldening more thuggish behavior like this. 

I'm not saying Police should shoot them, but why can't the police just follow the law and arrest these trouble makers who are obviously breaking the law. Such action is subject to arrest in any countries Western or Eastern. It's kind of frustrating watching these scum bags in Hong Kong running amok with out consequences.

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## lcloo

Meanwhile 12,000 people's police carry out drill on anti-riots in Shenzhen city, just 100 metres away across a river from Hong Kong.

https://tv.on.cc/hk/index.html?i=chi190806-14818-1135-m&d=1565062638

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## the_messenger

I think China anti-riot police will be used , not the PLA.


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## oprih

Time to flatten these teenage hooligans, China should give the go signal now while murica is burning with their economy crashing.

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## lcloo

This was how Lee Kuan Yew deal with SIA (Singapore Airlines) pilots. Unfortunately Hong Kong's elected leaders just don't have LKY's determination. HK leaders' just don't have the b_lls.

https://tv.on.cc/hk/index.html?i=ONS190806-12286-15-2M&d=1565065723


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## lcloo

I am concern on Hong Kong's development because I have friends and classmate living there, and I have more than 50 ex-office colleague from Hong Kong, mostly above 45 years old. My classmate said she is very frustrated by these young misled students creating chaos in the normally peaceful city.

汉奸头目赴美见老板。The Hong Kong Chinese traitor mastermind went to US to meet his boss, the vice president of USA.







For the second time in 10 days, the Hong Kong and Macao Affairs Office of the State Council spoke to reporters about the recent spate of violence in Hong Kong. Hong Kong and Macao Affairs Office spokesman Yang Guang said that the demonstrations had evolved into extreme violence, the means of continuous renovation and increasing destructiveness, while behind the scenes to encourage and support radical violence is the "anti-China chaos" forces inside and outside Hong Kong, and named the United States Vice President and Secretary of State for earlier receiving the media Li Zhiying _(Edit: the mastermind of riots)_. Yang warned the backers at the meeting, saying, "The fire-makers will set themselves on fire, and the punishment will come!"

Mr Yang said that in the past two months, demonstrations in Hong Kong had gone beyond the freedom of assembly, procession and demonstration, with a small group of radical demonstrators targeting police officers and using tools ranging from bricks and iron branches to deadly weapons such as smoke bombs, petrol bombs, bows and arrows, and setting fire to them.

There are also openly advocated the use of deadly tactics to attack police officers online. Yang Guang also pointed out that in the current chaos in Hong Kong, the front desk is some of the radical violent elements, the center is part of the misguided, ensticed good citizens, all are "anti-China chaos" forces behind the scenes to encourage.

Asked whether there was concrete evidence that China had been referring to the involvement of outside mafia in Hong Kong's counter-attacks, he pointed out that clues had been found in public reports of blatantly irresponsible statements by some Taiwanese and Western politicians since the start of the revision of the Fugitive Regulations in February. Yang pointed out, for example, that the U.S. State Department had issued the 2019 U.S. Hong Kong Policy Law Report in March to "

Describing Hong Kong's high degree of autonomy and repeatedly referring to the amendment as a threat to the rule of law in Hong Kong, eating away at one country, two systems, inviting Hong Kong's opposition to the United States in more than two months, and arranging meetings between Us Vice President Pence and Mr Lai Chi-ying, these examples are all to cheer up the demonstrators.

He criticized the above-mentioned elements for confusing right and wrong, reversing black and white, striving to advocate the perverse theory of "citizen resistance" and even "violence can solve the problem", glorifying and encouraging radical violence, encouraging radicals to engage in so-called "non-cooperative movements" and exerting "extreme pressure" in an attempt to force all Hong Kong people to become involved in political disputes and exacerbate social conflicts. He went on to point out that some activists had torn up the Basic Law of Hong Kong and defaced the national emblem, and that on Saturday evening, several shameless men had flown a five-star flag in front of a building in Tsim Sha Tsui and threw it into the sea, pointing out that the act was a serious violation of the law, blatantly offending the dignity of the country and challenging the bottom line of the principle of "one country, two systems".

Original text from Oriental Post, a Hong Kong Chinese newspaper.
修例風波：港澳辦斥美副總統見黎智英　警告幕後黑手玩火必自焚
國務院港澳事務辦公室10天內第二次，就香港近日發生的連串暴力事件向記者發表看法。港澳辦新聞發言人楊光表示，示威行動已演化成極端暴力行為，手段不斷翻新，破壞性不斷加劇，而幕後慫恿、支持激進暴力分子的則是香港內外的「反中亂港」勢力，並點名批評美國副總統和國務卿早前接見壹傳媒黎智英。楊在會上對幕後黑手發出警告說：「玩火者必自焚，該來的懲罰終將來到！」

楊光表示，近兩個月來，在香港發生的示威遊行活動完全超出集會、遊行、示威自由的範疇，一小部分激進示威者以警員為襲擊目標，使用的工具從磚頭、鐵枝發展到煙霧彈、汽油彈、弓箭等致命武器，並實施縱火，還有人在網上公然鼓吹使用致命手法襲擊警員。

楊光又指在香港當前亂局中，站在前台的是部分激進暴力分子，居中的是部分被誤導、被裹挾的善良市民，一切均是「反中亂港」勢力在幕後鼓動。被問到中方一直指外部黑手捲入香港反修例事件是否有具體證據，他指出，從公開報道當中找到線索，自2月逃犯條例修訂工作啟動以來，一些台灣和西方政客公然發表不負責任言論。

楊光舉例指，美國國務院提前在3月發表「2019美國香港政策法報告」，以「倒退」形容香港高度自治，並多次聲明指修例威脅香港法治，蠶食一國兩制，又在兩個多月間邀請香港反對派訪美，並安排包括美國副總統彭斯與黎智英等人會面，這些例子都是為示威者打氣撐腰。

他批評上述分子混淆是非、顛倒黑白，竭力鼓吹「公民抗命」甚至「暴力才能解決問題」的歪理邪說，美化、慫恿激進暴力活動，鼓動激進分子大搞所謂「不合作運動」，實施「極限施壓」，企圖逼使全體香港市民捲入政治紛爭，激化社會矛盾。

他續指，部分激進分子撕毀香港基本法，污損國徽，而上周六（3日）傍晚更有幾名無恥之徒在尖沙咀拆下某建築物前懸掛的五星旗，扔入海中，直指該行為嚴重觸犯法律，公然冒犯國家尊嚴，挑戰「一國兩制」原則底線。

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## bbccdd1470

jaybird said:


> They are not Peaceful protesters. They are hooligans deliberately aimed at sabotaging Hong Kong anyway possible with foreign entities support. The Hong Kong government is dealing with them with kids gloves and emboldening more thuggish behavior like this.
> 
> I'm not saying Police should shoot them, but why can't the police just follow the law and arrest these trouble makers who are obviously breaking the law. Such action is subject to arrest in any countries Western or Eastern. It's kind of frustrating watching these scum bags in Hong Kong running amok with out consequences.


Actually after the central gov't announced his support to the HK police, the HK police are now going full power to arrest those rioters. Also TVB news today just reports a 10 thousand Shenzhen's riot police exercise, I really believe that even the riot police from Shenzhen is already enough to handle those HK rioters, with those number and equipment.



lcloo said:


> Meanwhile 12,000 people's police carry out drill on anti-riots in Shenzhen city, just 100 metres away across a river from Hong Kong.
> 
> https://tv.on.cc/hk/index.html?i=chi190806-14818-1135-m&d=1565062638


Yeah, this is very impressive and one thing people don't know that HK police commissioner in fact has the power to appoint temp police to assist to enforce the laws.



lcloo said:


> This was how Lee Kuan Yew deal with SIA (Singapore Airlines) pilots. Unfortunately Hong Kong's elected leaders just don't have LKY's determination. HK leaders' just don't have the b_lls.
> 
> https://tv.on.cc/hk/index.html?i=ONS190806-12286-15-2M&d=1565065723


Because the reality is HK gov't is much weaker than Singaporean gov't, and the fact already show almost all CE of HK either step down or didn't seek another term. This is the thing you have to really study the HK history and understand how HK society works. If you have time, you can read the following article.

宋鸿兵：香港已陷深度分裂，特区政府与势力集团决战在即


近期香港发生了一系列游行示威活动和暴力事件，虽然存在外部干预，但并非主要原因。
因为一个社会如果没有发生内部分裂，外部势力是很难直接干预的。只有在内斗越来越尖锐的情况下，外部势力才能够趁机打入楔子、挑动混乱。

香港社会现在正是如此，内部出现了巨大的分裂，整个精英群体分裂为两派，其中一派是地产金融集团。一位媒体人说得非常精辟：“香港没有政治，有的只是地产政治，香港也没有政策，有的只有地产政策。”

地产金融集团现在已经尾大不掉，操控了香港经济命脉。他们在97年之前，由于受到英国殖民政府的压制，虽然能够挣一些钱，但远谈不上在香港各行各业占据支配性的地位。97年到现在，这股力量借着“港人治港”赢得一个巨大的自治机会，20年里逐步发展壮大，对香港的政治、经济、舆论和各行各业都具有巨大影响力，堪称是香港第一大利益集团。

分裂的另外一方是特区政府。他们非常明白，香港现在的经济模式存在重大隐患，除了地产和金融，其它任何行业在这么高的地价之下想要获取利润都是难上加难。这导致香港出现了严重的产业空心化，实业大量转移到大陆，同时也使香港社会两极分化愈发严重。地价房价太高，老百姓不能安居乐业，年轻人看不见希望，大家的生活完全没有幸福可言。

地产金融集团和特区政府在香港政治舞台上激烈博弈，围绕着香港下一步到底应该走向何方展开了一次重大的斗争。

其实这场斗争在97年就已经开始萌发。董建华在当年的施政报告中讲到：“过去多年来，金融业和房地产业，是香港经济的重要支柱，将来仍然会为香港的繁荣作出重要贡献。但是，由于香港的经济基础过于狭窄，一旦金融和房地产业受到冲击，香港经济便陷入困境。”

为了升级香港的竞争力，董建华打算一方面加大土地与住宅供应，降低创新与生活成本，为香港后续的发展开辟空间；另一方面大刀阔斧，改革教育、增加科技投资以及项目，为香港的未来增加新的增长动力。
他制定的八万五建屋计划、数码港、教育改革、高官问责制、强制公积金制度等政策，可谓高瞻远瞩，改革措施直指香港的弊病。
其中最重要的便是“八万五”建屋计划：每年兴建公营和私营住房不少于八万五千套，十年内全港七成的家庭可以自购住房。

不过"八万五"计划恰逢亚洲金融风暴，香港楼市凄风惨雨，当年房价即下跌2至3成。当时香港有60万个负资产者，账面损失达6000亿港元。
要求取消“八万五”目标的呼声趁势而起。为了安抚负资产者、稳定楼价，1998年港府宣布冻结卖地，2000年董建华发表声明正式放弃“八千五”计划。

不过地产金融集团并不满足，2002至2003年经济形势好转，房价进入上涨周期，董建华可能重拾扩大供地政策，这让地产非常焦虑。恰好在同时，香港爆发了反对《基本法》第二十三条的示威游行。从时间逻辑上讲，这其实就是为了赶董建华下台，迫使他辞职下台。

从当时到现在，香港爆发了三次大规模示威活动，每一次都发生在港府要改革土地政策增加供给之后。这说明了什么？

香港地产和金融利益集团对政府政策施压的影响力是如此的见效，让他们养成了一种路径依赖。他们自认为有能力迫使香港政策发生调整，从而使他们得到更多好处。这就在香港形成了一个非常独特的“政治传统”，只要施加巨大压力，特别是游行示威、媒体围攻，再加上暴力骚乱，就会吓住香港政府，阻绝内地对香港政策的影响力，港府顶不住强大势力集团的围攻，早晚会让步。

不过，以退让求团结则团结亡。董建华被迫让步之后，地产和金融集团的胃口变得越来越大，使得董建华的第二任期没有走完，在2005年被迫称病请辞。
董建华辞职之后，香港的政治生态发生了重大变化，香港地产金融集团变得非常嚣张。他们认为可以通过示威游行、暴力骚乱这样的手段，改变或者推翻港府的政策，如果不满意，甚至可以换掉特首。

这个时候地产金融集团势力膨胀，已经能够深入影响港府内部的很多运作，安插人脉直接为自己的利益服务。接替董建华的曾荫权，可能就是地产商非常好的一个代理人。在其任内，香港土地土地供应量直线暴跌，填海工程几乎陷入停顿，每年平均只卖出8幅住宅地，土地及房屋供应出现断层，私人住宅落成量在低水平徘徊，每年平均只有1.2万套，而有估算认为香港每年需要有5万多个住宅单位供应，才能满足包括新增和改善需求。

曾荫权任内，供应持续短缺叠加人口持续增长，而且整个任期内都没有发售新居屋（类似经适房），香港房价在此期间飙升超过一倍，超越了1997年的高峰。
2002-2017年，港岛、九龙、新界的私人房屋均价分别从4.46万港元/平米、3.32万港元/平米、2.92万港元/平米提高到19.45万港元/平米、17.57万港元/平米、10.72万港元/平米，分别增长3.36倍、4.29倍、2.67倍；而同期家庭年收入中位数从19.2万港元提高到32.76万港元，仅增长0.71倍。2018年房价收入比接近48倍，居于全球前列。

这么高的房价，意味着香港年轻人永远也不要梦想靠自己的力量来买房了。这就是为什么香港年轻人现在窝着一股邪火，一定要爆发。但是爆发的对象应该指向谁？应该是控制了政策的地产金融集团，而非港府本身。当我们把利益问题分析清楚的时候，就会发现香港的年轻人实际上是被严重地忽悠了。

在曾荫权任期即将结束的时候，爆出了大量的他向地产集团输送好处的丑闻。当时的公众舆论纷纷质疑，是不是港府的政策在向地产商进行严重的倾斜？

尝到了操纵港府政策的甜头，地产大佬们还想如法炮制，在下一任特首竞选中，唐英年获得了所有香港地产大佬的一致支持。
香港高地价导致的民不聊生早已世人皆知，但唐英年却极力为地产商辩护。最终在2012年特首选举后期民望急跌，败输给了梁振英。

梁振英站在了地产商的对立面。2013年其首份施政报告指出，将加大加快资助房屋的供应，从2018年起，5年内至少供应100 000套公屋。
梁振英还出台了宏大的填海计划。2012年香港政府公布《优化土地供应策略：维港以外填海及发展岩洞》，并在2013年施政报告中公布填海选址及人工岛规划，人工岛可以提供1,400至2,400公顷土地。
填海对地价房价的作用可谓“釜底抽薪”。截至2013年3月，香港从填海工程获得的土地面积逾67平方公里，仅占香港土地总面积约7%，却容纳了27%的香港人口及70%的商业活动。照这个势头发展，填海造地将很快大幅缓解香港的土地供求矛盾，地价房价有可能应声而落，而这显然与地产金融集团的利益相悖。

所以在胜选之后，对梁的抹黑就从来没有停止过，以地产商为主的工商界对其批评不断，其中李嘉诚更是从不掩饰对他的厌恶。
地产金融集团此时祭出了他们惯用的手段——抗议示威。梁振英就职仅半年之后的2013年元旦，便有大量市民组织游行要求其下台。组织者宣称有13万人，第三方估计为3万至3.3万人。但是此时梁携竞选大胜之势，并未被扳倒。

眼见一计不成，地产集团又生一计。2013年年初，发起人戴耀廷开始策划“占中”运动，并于2014年实行。主办方声称整场运动参与人数约120万人，占全香港人口的1/6。该运动严重冲击了港府的威信与梁振英的声望。
梁振英最终也没能战胜地产商，2016年宣布因家庭原因放弃争取连任。
香港地产大佬们此时再次确认，这一招可以有效打击政治对手，甚至迫其下台。

而且此时开始，媒体的倾向性愈发明显，几乎是一边倒地反对政府。其中原因，除了部分媒体的后台老板就是地产金融集团，还因为媒体要生存就得靠广告，而在香港能够有钱投放广告的人，多数属于地产金融集团阵营。因为他们不仅控制地产，也控制了香港的自来水、电厂、超市零售业、码头等等社会的方方面面。无论哪家公司投钱做广告，背后的资金来源无非就是这些大家族们。作为媒体，自然不敢针对他们，还要主动迎合才行。

2017年，林郑月娥上台后在楼市政策方面继承了董、梁的方针。她在施政报告里写到：香港楼价高、租金贵，形成巨大的生活压力，是严峻的民生问题。住的问题亦影响了家庭结构，扭曲了价值观：不少人的目标就是尽量赚钱买楼供楼，青年人选科和择业都要向钱看。住的问题也是香港最严重的安全隐患，不少家庭走投无路，甚至要住在工厂大厦内的隔断房。
因此林郑月娥大力推行改革，将政府资助房屋（俗称“居屋”）的定价与市场价格脱钩，并以申请人实际承担能力定价，变相将居屋的定价由目前评估市值的70%降低至52%。
林郑月娥还继承了梁振英的填海造地方针。2018年，她提出《明日大屿愿景》，其中填海计划预计建立规模达1700公顷人工岛，兴建26至40万套住宅，7成为公营房屋，可供70至110万人居住。

面对林郑月娥的正面出击，地产金融集团故技重施。2019年出现了大规模骚乱，这次他们给出的表面原因是“反修例”。不过这明显跟普通老百姓完全没有关系，却引发了大规模的游行，甚至演化成了暴力。背后是谁在主使，答案不言自明。
香港已经处在一种相当深度的分裂状态，这一次是两派力量真正的大决战。港府和背后的中央已退无可退，必须控制住局面。

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## Mista

lcloo said:


> This was how Lee Kuan Yew deal with SIA (Singapore Airlines) pilots. Unfortunately Hong Kong's elected leaders just don't have LKY's determination. HK leaders' just don't have the b_lls.
> 
> https://tv.on.cc/hk/index.html?i=ONS190806-12286-15-2M&d=1565065723



Lol LKY himself said that HK's CE is a tough and thankless job. He or she will have two political masters, Beijing and the people of HK, and these two groups often have conflicting political desires. Whatever you do to accommodate one side, the other side will be unhappy and at the end of the day no side will be grateful for your hardwork. 






吃力不讨好，里外不是人。

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## Three_Kingdoms

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Fair enough! I guess you understand the Ferguson threads now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I've already chatted with Horus about you and scheduling a video Skype sometime. If he has to do this you'll probably end up with a permaban or something as a result of the hassle. I’ve been informed that I am not the first to complain about you. I suggest you calm down and keep your posts on topic instead of perpetual personal attacks. You are just shooting yourself in the foot with every post like this. He's going to read this and you can't say you weren't warned.
> 
> bookmarked warning August 3rd, 2019




haha even you are on video skype or whatever who can tell it is the REAL person writing all the trashes and having a deep rancor about my country. Second, the LOOK doesnt mean anything. Better have a dna test to prove if you dont have an indian heritage which you refuse to admit. Third, your thinking/attitudes resemble that of a typical ignorant, immoral and illogical indian who only has the hatred of Chinese in your mindset.

I adhere to the rule of writing on topic for the issues in a vast majority of my posts. Mentioning of your "heritage" are passing sentences which add value of trying to reveal the persons identity/mentality behind the fronts. 

Stop making nonsense postings that aim to heap up a smearing campaign on my City and Country. Idiot.

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## Three_Kingdoms

hiseen said:


> Don't deviate from the theme.
> If Hong Kong Black T-shirt want to achieve their goals, They need to deal with this nearly 500 million Red fans (Xiaofenhong) first. A brutal battle.




Dont fall into their dirty trap.
They are trying to pressurize the HK police to a point where they have no choice but to ask the PLA for help.
Then, it will be the start of yet another avalanche of bad mouthing by the media of the west slamming China of violating "one-country-two-systems" which will lead to imposing world-wide sanctions on economic activities with China. 

What we can do however, is asking the PLA to send a good "intelligence" team connecting the dots (evidences) for the arrest of the kingpins.



lcloo said:


> This was how Lee Kuan Yew deal with SIA (Singapore Airlines) pilots. Unfortunately Hong Kong's elected leaders just don't have LKY's determination. HK leaders' just don't have the b_lls.
> 
> https://tv.on.cc/hk/index.html?i=ONS190806-12286-15-2M&d=1565065723



LKY can do it because the rogue state wants to keep Singapore under its wraps. They dont want to bring down Singapore.

The situation of HK right now is different.
HK is a chess piece on the chess board. They want to work through HK (and in other trouble making territories like Taiwan, Xinjiang ...) to collapse China!

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## bbccdd1470

Three_Kingdoms said:


> He is disgusting.
> 
> On the most difficult time that we are facing now brother, I was on 2 occasions last week observing the riots from a distance as a passer-by with my friend.
> 
> In as much as we can see on TV and other media and at the scenes, these black-Ts are THUGS!
> 
> Even standing from a big distance of some hundreds of meters away, the spreading of the tear gas to where we were standing make you very sick ... causing severe irritation to your eyes, nose and unprotected skin area.


I almost got beat up in Causeway bay on July 21th because I spoke up to them. Now the situation is even worse, they would tie people up and beat people with iron pipes and other weapons. Just stay as home if riot is happened.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Three_Kingdoms said:


> haha even you are on video skype or whatever who can tell it is the REAL person writing all the trashes and having a deep rancor.



Haha @Dubious I called it. See I told you and Horus he would say this..I could see this coming a mile away.



Three_Kingdoms said:


> Second, the LOOK doesnt mean anything. Better have a dna test to prove if you dont have an indian heritage which you refuse to admit. Third, your thinking/attitudes resemble that of a typical ignorant, immoral and illogical indian who only has the hatred of Chinese in your mindset.



Well you aren’t going to get anywhere with a person like this. I think talking isn’t going to work.


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## Dubious

Three_Kingdoms said:


> haha even you are on video skype or whatever who can tell it is the REAL person writing all the trashes and having a deep rancor about my country. Second, the LOOK doesnt mean anything. Better have a dna test to prove if you dont have an indian heritage which you refuse to admit. Third, your thinking/attitudes resemble that of a typical ignorant, immoral and illogical indian who only has the hatred of Chinese in your mindset.
> 
> I adhere to the rule of writing on topic for the issues in a vast majority of my posts. Mentioning of your "heritage" are passing sentences which add value of trying to reveal the persons identity/mentality behind the fronts.
> 
> Stop making nonsense postings that aim to heap up a smearing campaign on my City and Country. Idiot.


Stop harassing our members....If you can not retaliate with honour please don't speak trash

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## Mista

bbccdd1470 said:


> I almost got beat up in Causeway bay on July 21th because I spoke up to them. Now the situation is even worse, they would tie people up and beat people with iron pipes and other weapons. Just stay as home if riot is happened.



Stay safe and remain politically neutral on the streets.

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## Dubious

@Deino
Please maintain this thread


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## Deino

Dubious said:


> @Deino
> Please maintain this thread



Pardon, but my right to moderate is unfortunately restricted to the China military section only 
... so you cannot moderate too here?


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## Dubious

Deino said:


> Pardon, but my right to moderate is unfortunately restricted to the China military section only
> ... so you cannot moderate too here?


I can ..I just don't have the time nor understand what half of them are fighting about?!

We are busy in Park section due to Kashmir issue...should I move this to Chinese section Bro? So you can patch it up


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## bolo

Three_Kingdoms said:


> Dont fall into their dirty trap.
> They are trying to pressurize the HK police to a point where they have no choice but to ask the PLA for help.
> Then, it will be the start of yet another avalanche of bad mouthing by the media of the west slamming China of violating "one-country-two-systems" which will lead to imposing world-wide sanctions on economic activities with China.
> 
> What we can do however, is asking the PLA to send a good "intelligence" team connecting the dots (evidences) for the arrest of the kingpins.
> 
> 
> 
> LKY can do it because the rogue state wants to keep Singapore under its wraps. They dont want to bring down Singapore.
> 
> The situation of HK right now is different.
> HK is a chess piece on the chess board. They want to work through HK (and in other trouble making territories like Taiwan, Xinjiang ...) to collapse China!



There will not be worldwide sanctions if PLA came in. This is only negative Chinese thinking in every situation which is causing the leaders to remain stagnant.


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## Deino

Dubious said:


> I can ..I just don't have the time nor understand what half of them are fighting about?!
> 
> We are busy in Park section due to Kashmir issue...should I move this to Chinese section Bro? So you can patch it up



If You like and after cleaning I'll move it back to this section. But I must admit - I so far did not read it - it is highly likely that then more then half of the posts will be simply gone!

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## Dubious

Deino said:


> If You like and after cleaning I'll move it back to this section. But I must admit - I so far did not read it - it is highly likely that then more then half of the posts will be simply gone!


Bro I also didn't read we got too much going on in other sections.

Let me move it now before I forget


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## Battle of Waterloo

In the UK we read about CCP sponsoring/sending 'mafia triads' to physically confront and fight with HK protestors, is there any truth to this? 

[I doubt it, so I wanted a Chinese perspective. Thanks.]


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## aziqbal

The protestors need to draw a line 

China withdraw the extradition treaty

Now don’t push it and go back to your homes

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## ZY-CN-CA

New York's housing prices are also very expensive.
Oh, there was a Wall Street parade before, but it was suppressed.
Why Hong Kong not suppressed?I think the Hong Kong Government has not taken up the heavy responsibility of managing a Peace home.It is very bad to let go of developments. Now it is a lot of thugs!

守住香港，守住善良-口号很美好
干的事情很无耻


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## Mista

This is bordering lawlessness...

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## lcloo

Thousands of protestors surrounded the Deep Water Police Station 
*Oriental Daily*

_Google translate from Oriental Daily, a HK Chinese newspaper_
Yesterday ( 6th August ) at 7.20 pm , five off-duty O detectives found a suspicious man at the junction of The North River Street in Duck Street , Deep Water , and then went forward for a pre-arrest , and the man involved was The President of the Hong Kong Baptist University Students Association , Mr Fang Zhongxian , who seized 10 18 cm long laser guns in their hand in a plastic bag , and the article was reported to be a star-gazing pen . Purchased in a row on Yayu Street, the officers arrested him on suspicion of possession of an offensive weapon, only to arouse the dissatisfaction of many members of the public, surrounded by five detectives clamoring, and the police reinforcements arrived at the scene to be brought under control.

Fang reported discomfort, by ambulance to the hospital for treatment, the head of the university, Qian Dakang received the report and rushed to the hospital to understand the incident. Later, about 1000 people surrounded the Deep Water Police Station to protest. At 11.25 pm , riot police arrived and fired a number of tear gas canisters on The Road in Lichi Kok , the demonstrators dispersed to Changsha Bay Road , and riot police later cordoned off a footbridge at the West Kowloon Centre . At this time, there are also a large number of police officers in Qinqin Street near Garton. By about 11.50 pm, the police had advanced on two sides of the line on Qinzhou Street, packing up the demonstrators along Yuanzhou Street and Lichi Kok Road respectively.

A self-proclaimed street man was present to point out that the police officers suddenly fired tear gas. At the early hours of this day (7th), a large number of demonstrators retreated to the government's co-station near Changsha Bay Road, during which fire engines drove to the scene. Social workers broadcast to police officers, there are many elderly homes in The Deep Water, and told them to remain calm.

Professor Cheng Yunan, Director and Director of the Baptist University Affairs Office, went to the scene on Qinzhou Street to call for peace and called on the police officers to exercise restraint, and Zheng left after about five minutes. It is reported that the police pointed out that the crowd at the scene is carrying out an illegal build-up, a number of riot police rushed into YatoU Street to carry out arrest operations, several men and women were subdued. More than 200 demonstrators gathered at the junction of Qinzhou Street and Yuanzhou Street, removing trash cans and setting up barricades and confronting police officers. Demonstrators clapped and cheered as vehicles passed the scene and rang to show their support. Police again launched a dispersal operation , the line of defence was pushed to Fuhua Street , the demonstrators dispersed in the direction of Yuanzhou Street , and the police line of defence retreated to the Government Department .

During the period, a 60-year-old man who claimed to be living nearby who could not return home, knelt in front of the riot police and asked the police officers not to fire tear gas at the demonstrators again, pointing out that the police officers had been unable to return home because of the police cordon, and the officers then let him into the line of defense and returned home. At about 1 am , police pointed out that a person had fired projectiles at officers and at one point raised a red flag warning to the demonstrators , but no further action was taken . The officers and the crowd pointed out each other, during which some officers with batons rushed towards the demonstrators, only to be pulled back into the line of defence by their white-clad superiors. The police raised the black flag to warn the demonstrators that they were in an illegal masse and asked them to leave immediately.
Police again dispersed the demonstrators and arrested several people, including Sha Tin District Councillor Huang Xueli, who was arrested in connection with the obstruction and illegal assembly.

During the police clearance period, a woman in her 20s, outside the Hong Kong Railway Station at the junction of Changsha Bay Road and North River Street, was suspected of having a seizure and had a rescue team coming forward to rescue her, a man at the scene was injured for unknown reasons and 2 men and women were taken to hospital by ambulance crews. At 2:30 a.m., the demonstrators dispersed, the scene returned to calm, riot police also boarded police cars to evacuate the scene, the affected sections of the road to resume traffic

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## Deino

Dubious said:


> Stop harassing our members....If you can not retaliate with honour please don't speak trash



*I can only agree, this is a news thread and usually not located here since not related to the Chinese military. It was only temporarily moved to this section to be cleaned.

So, after much reading and several warnings given to some highly emotional members due to either insulting posts, provocative and personnel remarks against other members and countless off-topic replies and personnel remarks on other issues I deleted several post.

Again: Stop harassing other members even with other opinions, don't provoke and use foul language, do not insult and if you can not reply with arguments in a decent way, then better do not post.*

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## Dubious

Deino said:


> *I can only agree, this is a news thread and usually not located here since not related to the Chinese military. It was only temporarily moved to this section to be cleaned.
> 
> So, after much reading and several warnings given to some highly emotional members due to either insulting posts, provocative and personnel remarks against other members and countless off-topic replies and personnel remarks on other issues I deleted several post.
> 
> Again: Stop harassing other members even with other opinions, don't provoke and use foul language, do not insult and if you can not reply with arguments in a decent way, then better do not post.*


Thank you ...I will move it back

I swear couldn't understand what was going on here..

Thank you once again

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## waz

I saw them throwing the flag into the water, disgusting. China should be commended for showing restraint. Keep strong China, many of these people have overstepped the mark.

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## bbccdd1470

Battle of Waterloo said:


> In the UK we read about CCP sponsoring/sending 'mafia triads' to physically confront and fight with HK protestors, is there any truth to this?
> 
> [I doubt it, so I wanted a Chinese perspective. Thanks.]


In short, the White T-shirt are the residents of that place (Yuen Long) and native of HK where they are very protective to their own place. Their ancestors even fought the British colonial gov't and the Imperial Japanese army. (So you get the idea). Some of them are triads, but not all.

A week before the incident (fighting inside the train), the Black T-shirt (Protesters) sent few of their people to Yuen Long to cause trouble, but they retreated later due to unwelcoming of the residents of Yuen Long.

So the BT announced that they would come back in the following week to make a big scene. Of course, the residents of Yuen Long responded that they could force them out if they come back again.

Few hours before the incident, few BT and the residents had argued in front of the main entrance of Yuen Long MRT station (the residents asked them to leave), and later turned into a fight. For unknown reason, one of the elder of the residents suddenly collapsed and became unconscious on the street. Rumor spread that the elder was hit by a brick from the BT, that angered the younger residents (the White T-shirt) and joined the fight later.

So both WT and BT fought each other with weapons (WT with wooden sticks, while BT with umbrella) from the outside to inside of the MRT station. The fight was stopped when the BT retreated back behind the gate, this was where the cell phone's clip started. (BT lost the fight because most of their main force at that time were busy fighting the Police in HK island.)

From the clip, both sides at first had verbal fights and few physical contacts, but nothing was harmful since they were all separated by the gate. Until when the WT were about to leave, few of the BT water sprinkling a WT by a fire hose and attacked him with an umbrella. This was the point that triggered the chain of violence. The WT violently attacked the BT with wooden sticks, chased them back to the train and kept hitting.

The information after the incident was very limited. The few things we know that was the riot police arrived to the station later and forced out by the BT. BT sent a large group of people to Yuen Long and fought the WT on the streets and inside the MRT station. So a large group of WT with weapons stationed outside their village for protection. ( TVB had live of it) Riot Police were dispatched to the village to prevent further violence and recorded the WT's ID numbers. And Police started arresting WT in the following days.

What ridiculous is the Media biasedly reports this incident! They put all the blame on the Police and WT, and portrayed the BT as innocent bystanders, the only victims. They accused the Police was working with the triads (WT) because the Police was late to the scene and *noone answered the 999 emergency call. *However, the truth was the Police had dispatched two police officers to the scene after the first 999 call, but the on scene police officers decided to wait for backup due to too many people fighting with weapons; and most of the riot police had already transferred to the HK island to suppress the riot, so it took time to reorganize. What worse is the reason why there were noone answered the emergency call, that was because the *BT had initialed an attack on emergency call center with 133 calls per minute to paralyze the emergency service in order to demonize the Police. *I won't say my information is the absolute truth but this is much more closer to the truth than the Media was presented.

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## 帅的一匹

waz said:


> I saw them throwing the flag into the water, disgusting. China should be commended for showing restraint. Keep strong China, many of these people have overstepped the mark.


They want universal suffrage in Hongkong, which was never given by UK.

USA goverment is the backstage manipulator of all these chaos.

'Color Revolution' is what happens in HongKong.

Using force to compel others accepting your opinions is not democracy, it's violence.



Dubious said:


> Thank you ...I will move it back
> 
> I swear couldn't understand what was going on here..
> 
> Thank you once again


What happens in this thread is about fierce debate about the unity with or seperation of Hongkong from PRC. It's very serious topic, emotional comments are understandable.



ZY-CN-CA said:


> New York's housing prices are also very expensive.
> Oh, there was a Wall Street parade before, but it was suppressed.
> Why Hong Kong not suppressed?I think the Hong Kong Government has not taken up the heavy responsibility of managing a Peace home.It is very bad to let go of developments. Now it is a lot of thugs!
> 
> 守住香港，守住善良-口号很美好
> 干的事情很无耻


Hongkong police is very very restrained, two police officers didn't fire a round even they were surrounded by hundreds of mobs on the street.

Those Hongkong opposition thugs are found regularly meeting with USA embassy personnels in public places.

A war with USA is imminent, those Yankees force us into corner.


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## waz

wanglaokan said:


> They want universal suffrage in Hongkong, which was never given by UK.



I don't think even that will satisfy them.


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## 帅的一匹

Battle of Waterloo said:


> In the UK we read about CCP sponsoring/sending 'mafia triads' to physically confront and fight with HK protestors, is there any truth to this?
> 
> [I doubt it, so I wanted a Chinese perspective. Thanks.]


UK, who is the former colonizer of Hongkong, is fully biased regarding anything related to China's Hongkong policy. we will only send para military force or PLA to Hongkong if the thugs try to overthrow local administration, no mafia triads are needed.



waz said:


> I don't think even that will satisfy them.


Independence is those thugs want, but could only be achieved over 1.4 billions Chinese dead body.


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## lcloo




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## 帅的一匹

lcloo said:


> View attachment 573036
> View attachment 573037


This is so called ostentatious Colour Revolution.


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## waz

wanglaokan said:


> Independence is those thugs want, but could only be achieved over 1.4 billions Chinese dead body.



No need for your dead bodies , just find those independence lovers and give them a one way ticket out of Hong Kong.


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## 帅的一匹

waz said:


> No need for your dead bodies , just find those independence lovers and give them a one way ticket out of Hong Kong.


Sometimes I think the local administration is too mercy and being taken for granted by those seperatists, they need to actively lead HongKong to the right path instead of being led by the nose.

He local goverment can't handle foreign interference from UK and USA, it's central goverment responsibility to make counter move.

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## the_messenger

Protesters.
They abandoned their strength in number and fortification. They split their forces and fall one by one.
Now Beijing are using their own people -civilians of course- to "protect HK"
Arrests for leaders are being made
Their organisation and communication channel have been infiltrated, more radical yet much weaker.


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## Menthol

Any attribute related to independent and foreign flags can be accused as traitorous act.

I wonder why HK government doesn't do anything about it.

In other countries, they will be judged under military court.

Because HK government is not assertive, that is why all the riots keep happening.


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## lcloo

The Riots in HK is adversely affecting HK's tourism

South East Asian group tourists arrival dropped by 80% - 90% due to riots in Hong Kong. It is estimated there are only 400 group tourists visiting Hong Kong in August, and there is no new booking for September.

Travel agency employees are being forced to take annual leaves now, and may have to take unpay leaves from September onwards.

At the same time, Mainland Chinese tourists arrivals are also dropped sharply.

* 43.3% of Hong Kong people are employed under the service sector of wholesale and retail trade, restaurants, and hotels.

*修例風波：東南亞訪港團暴跌90%　旅社職員逼放年假*
08月08日(四) 11:40

反對修訂《逃犯條例》衝突持續，令香港旅遊業近乎陷於停頓。香港入境團旅行社協會創會會長謝淦廷今(8日)表示，由上月底起訪港的東南亞旅行團數量暴跌80%至90%，預計8月只有約400名東南亞團旅客，目前9月亦無新旅行團預訂，料屆時只有200至300名旅客。因應現時情況，其旅行社員工由8月開始已陸續放年假，下月更開始要停薪留職。

謝指，暑假7月至8月因香港不同商店都進行減價，是東南亞旅客訪港旺季。然而近月香港衝突頻生，更蔓延至不同地區，影響旅客來港意欲，紛紛轉赴台灣等地旅遊。他坦言「嚟緊幾個月都唔知點捱，點都追唔番損失！」

除東南亞旅行團外，內地訪港團數目亦大跌。香港旅遊業議會主席黃進達指，現時內地訪港團一個月約為160至170團，較去年同期的逾200團大減。他表示衝突事件「對旅客觀感一定有好大影響」。他又稱，旅議會已向內地及海外的相關單位解釋目前旅客活動仍安全，亦與港府反映會否有措施協助業界，但大型推廣計劃都要待事件平息後才能進行。

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## Brainsucker

wanglaokan said:


> UK, who is the former colonizer of Hongkong, is fully biased regarding anything related to China's Hongkong policy. we will only send para military force or PLA to Hongkong if the thugs try to overthrow local administration, no mafia triads are needed.
> 
> Independence is those thugs want, but could only be achieved over 1.4 billions Chinese dead body.



You don't need PLA. You just need to add more, more, more police. They can do like that because of their number. If you add more, more and more police from Mainland, their number advantage will shrink. And safety can be protected again. Plus, PLAN should also surround HK with their patrol boats and ships. Siege the city from outside. Stop all ships that come and go from HK. 

The problem today is because the number of Hongkong police is not enough. That's why those Anarchists can do whatever they want.

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## obj 705A

correct me if I'm mistaken but Beijing gives zero funds to HK right? so what ever damage that is done to HK's infrastructure by HK's citizens it will be rebuilt with tax money that the government gets from HK citizens.
dont HKers realize that! or are they so braindead they dont realize they are ruining their own livelihoods!


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## bbccdd1470

obj 705A said:


> correct me if I'm mistaken but Beijing gives zero funds to HK right? so what ever damage that is done to HK's infrastructure by HK's citizens it will be rebuilt with tax money that the government gets from HK citizens.
> dont HKers realize that! or are they so braindead they dont realize they are ruining their own livelihoods!


If the BT can think rationally and realize what their actions could do our city, they should have already condemned the violence and separated themselves from those extremists. Now the HK is exactly like the cultural revolution in China, you could see the similarities between the Red Guard and the BT by comparing their behavior and actions. I can ensure you that they will regret what they are doing now after 5 or 10 years.

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## Beidou2020

PLA should not intervene. This is a job for intelligence agencies.

Intelligence agencies can infiltrate this anti-China movement and find out who is responsible for this and how they get their financing.

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## bolo

bbccdd1470 said:


> If the BT can think rationally and realize what their actions could do our city, they should have already condemned the violence and separated themselves from those extremists. Now the HK is exactly like the cultural revolution in China, you could see the similarities between the Red Guard and the BT by comparing their behavior and actions. I can ensure you that they will regret what they are doing now after 5 or 10 years.


I don't think so. Some of the organizers and leaders of the riot will live a luxurious life in America until they become expendible. 
All mainland have to do is once the rioters are arrested put a 20 year ban of them from entering mainland China and Macau. This will seriously effect their job prospects for the future.

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## bbccdd1470

bolo said:


> I don't think so. Some of the organizers and leaders of the riot will live a luxurious life in America until they become expendible.
> All mainland have to do is once the rioters are arrested put a 20 year ban of them from entering mainland China and Macau. This will seriously effect their job prospects for the future.


True, some leaders and organizers will escape to other places. The most likely scenario HK will go into recession for at least 5 years and all of us, the common people, will pay the cost. I blame the BT because even now many of their people, who don't participate violence, still support and harbor those extremist. Those who already got arrested already lost their future due to their naivety.

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## 帅的一匹

bolo said:


> I don't think so. Some of the organizers and leaders of the riot will live a luxurious life in America until they become expendible.
> All mainland have to do is once the rioters are arrested put a 20 year ban of them from entering mainland China and Macau. This will seriously effect their job prospects for the future.


We need an organization like Mosad.

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## bolo

bbccdd1470 said:


> True, some leaders and organizers will escape to other places. The most likely scenario HK will go into recession for at least 5 years and all of us, the common people, will pay the cost. I blame the BT because even now many of their people, who don't participate violence, still support and harbor those extremist. Those who already got arrested already lost their future due to their naivety.


The world's perspective is HK police are worthless. My friends are laughing because nobody can believe the lack of tactics by police, and bad training. In my country, anyone trying to breach the police station would be dead. Instead the HK police is still talking and persuading rioters to leave.
We need more police in US, HK Chinese need not apply



wanglaokan said:


> We need an organization like Mosad.


You need real bullets

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## bbccdd1470

bolo said:


> The world's perspective is HK police are worthless. My friends are laughing because nobody can believe the lack of tactics by police, and bad training. In my country, anyone trying to breach the police station would be dead. Instead the HK police is still talking and persuading rioters to leave.
> We need more police in US, HK Chinese need not apply


I'm agreed. Even before the handover, anyone who breach the police station also would be dead too.

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## Brainsucker

bbccdd1470 said:


> I'm agreed. Even before the handover, anyone who breach the police station also would be dead too.



That is what they want. Just look at Syria, Ukraine, etc. Everything started with the death of the protesters. For China, it won't goes anywhere. As HK is just a small city. But the West will use it to tarnish China reputation.

In order for you to do that, China should become the strongest nation on Earth first, so every other countries will afraid to you, and China can do anything without any problem. Like the US right now.

The HK polices are not stupid. They just lack of manpower. It's all depend on PRC decision now. But taking out PLA from their barrack will only make the situation worse. if my memory serve right, China has more than 1.000.000 armed police. Why don't send a quarter of them to HK as anti riot police? Just send 200.000 Armed police to HK as anti riot police, and put them under HK police command.

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## eldamar

Hongkong- being the only place in China whereby English is a medium of communication, is a hotbed of activity conducted by various intelligence agencies using saboteurs/inciters/instigators/moles.

This includes the CIA and MI6.

Then we have counterintelligence surveillance being done by the MSS. It is possible those inciters such as the ones who threw China's flags into the sea and defaced the national emblem are in fact, employed by the MSS to justify them sending the tanks south from Shenzhen












Or more likely IMO, to justify sending in the riot police which numbers in the hundreds of thousands(enough to form an army in its own right), if the need arises.

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## lcloo

What benefits will China get by sending PLA or PAP to Hong Kong? Zhongnanhai is not that stupid, as this is the trap laid by the real mastermind thousands of miles away from Hong Kong.

The latest consultative session in Shenzhen between Mainland officials and prominent leaders of Hong Kong is the right and rational path.

The most prominently reported student leaders are from the Hong Kong Baptist University which have severe problem with student discipline. 

Looks like HKBU students excel in protesting.
*学生不满新校长人选咨询不足[编辑]*
2015年5月，浸会大学安排新校长人选会见师生和校友。唯人选只有香港大学首席副校长钱大康，他将于7月初约满港大，刚可接替卸任的现任校长陈新滋。浸大学生会不满校方在考试期只作一轮咨询，反对校董会在5月14日即进行表决；学生会要求新校长必须支持学生，在政治上中立，不会如政协身份的陈新滋否定学生在雨伞运动中的付出[24]。

2015年5月14日，浸大学生会带领约60名学生多次冲击，一度“占领”聘用委员会的会议室，令会议受阻，最终校方宣布加开咨询会，未有即日通过校长任命[25]。

*浸大食坊续约风波[编辑]*



浸大食坊被指食物质素差劣，最终在2017年6月15日正式结业。
2016年11月23日，浸大学生会抗议浸大食坊获续约，于浸大食坊举行抗议活动，并向膳食附属委员会主席麦劲生教授递交公开信，促校方“撤回续约决定”、“决策公开透明”[26]。浸大学生会成员以食虫抗议，并高叫口号“拒绝劣食，踢走虫can”。*[27][28][29]*

其后供应商美心于2017年6月15日正式结业，经过重新招标后，于2017年9月起由Springwood Management Group Limited接手经营。[30]

而Chartwells原定在2017年9月签定了5年合约经营的Main Canteen（俗称AAB Can）、联福餐厅及联福楼，因校方接获不少投诉，加上作出多次警告，经营半年被撤出，由泛亚饮食有限公司再次接手，继续余下4年的合约。[31]

*“校巴日”[编辑]*
2017年2月9日，由于往返浸大校园的专线小巴25M(S)线提出加价，由4.5元加至4.7元，浸大师生认为加价不合理，又认为校方没为同学向署方反映意见，浸大学生会举行“校巴日”，以抗议运输署放任加价[32]。当日学生会提供两条循环线，往返九龙塘站及浸会大学，同学上车前须出示学生证方可免费乘搭校巴。而学生会将在各车站竖立会旗或设置等车告示，以供同学识别等车位置*[33][34]*。最终延至8月14日正式加价，惟实际上之前的价钱是小巴公司提供的一年“优惠”。[35]

*保安外判公司不获续约 引发遣散费风波[编辑]*
原外判公司龙卫保安有限公司不获续约，于2017年6月30日届满，公司拒绝向于浸大服务多年的工友发放遣散费，并要求保安员自愿离职。2017年6月19日，10多名工友与浸会大学社会关注组、香港浸会大学学生会的代表到浸大与物业处处长林朗秋讨论事件及递交信件，期间有请愿人士大叫“你呃人！”，并发生碰撞，有请愿人士声称被物业处人员推跌，一度留守在办公室外现场抗议，并与行政副校长转到逸夫行政楼开会。[36]

*要求学生修读普通话课程才能毕业 两名学生抗议遭停学[编辑]*



中医学及生物医学五年级学生陈乐行（左）和浸大学生会长刘子颀（右）遭停学



传理视艺大楼地下外墙喷上“反歧视 NO PTH（不要普通话）”字眼



2018年1月26日下午，学生会发起校内游行集会，约300名师生参与声援
自2017年起，浸大要求学生须在普通话课程成绩合格才可毕业，虽已推出豁免试，惟首批考生中只有约三成人合格。随后学生不满评分机制缺乏透明度，加上学生会早前亦发起公投，逾9成投票学生要求校方取消修读普通话课程为毕业要求，因而引发风波[37]。郑松泰、林忌等抨击，只要求本地生符合普通话要求，是种族歧视，其认为“浸大自动豁免对大陆学生与外地生的粤语及普通话能力要求，等如优待非本地学生”，并质疑大学有否将粤语能力列为大陆学生的毕业要求*[38][39]*。

2018年1月17日，近20名学生发起“占领语文中心”行动，要求校方交代2017年推出的普通话课程豁免试的评分准则及上诉机制，惟当时两名负责该考试的副校长均不在校园。[40]行动期间学生会会长刘子颀一度“爆粗”。浸大校长钱大康在1月21日向师生校友发电邮，表示对学生在语文中心的不当行为，将按纪律程序严肃处理。刘子颀则回应指，自己当日只是口误，愿意致歉。事后有向副校长致歉，不担心会受罚，亦不后悔抗议行动。[41]

参与者之一陈乐行原定在广东省中医院实习，不过被内地传媒及网民“起底”，有人更致电医院“恐吓”，为了人身安全，决定提早返港。他将考虑报警，批评浸大校长钱大康对其人身安全受威胁无动于中。[42]

1月24日，校长钱大康宣布勒令会长刘子颀，和中医学及生物医学五年级学生陈乐行即时停学。刘子颀批评校长绕过纪律委员会，没有做过任何调查便惩罚的决定，在浸大是毫无先例，怀疑校方做法是杀鸡儆猴。陈乐行批评钱大康“十分黑心”[43]。有媒体翻查大学生涉行为不当事件记录，未有在纪律聆讯前被停学先例。[44]

事件发生后，中国内地《环球时报》发表评论，称“香港大学生对普通话的这种态度，内地不少人很愤怒也很遗憾”，认为“香港年轻人视野太窄，不学好普通话就相当于关闭了人生一扇大门”，并指出连特朗普的外孙女都学习普通话，推动香港市民学习普通话“是香港回归后必然的文化跟进”*[45][46]*。而中大、城大和*港大民主墙*有针对浸大校长钱大康的粗口标语，浸大体育中心对出的私人屋苑逸珑外墙亦出现“不要普通话”的涂鸦。[47]

有记者从浸大语文中心的普通话自学网站中，下载豁免试的样本试卷，以及“及格准则描述”。中心表明，测试重点是语言能力，而不是语言知识。不过，有普通话老师、母语为普通话的内地人均认为，试卷丙部的说话题难度高，即使自身母语为普通话，仍有一定难度，认为试卷并非单纯考核学生的普通话能力。曾参加豁免试的学生表示，考试属口试形式、共设三部分，考生有25分钟预备时间。考场内有2名考官，考生的作答过程会被录音[48]。

1月26日凌晨，逸夫校园区树洪纪念图书馆外墙被人用蓝油喷上粗言秽语“×你钱大康”，以及“反歧视 NO PTH（不要普通话）”中英文字句。到早上7时许，有职员发现传理视艺大楼地下外墙喷上“反歧视 NO PTH（不要普通话）”字眼。警员列“刑事毁坏”处理。[49]同日下午，学生会发起校内游行集会，约300名师生参与声援，谴责校方无理处分两名学生，要求撤回停课决定，校方派出代表接收请愿信。亲建制组织“珍惜群组”约10名成员则到校园“踩埸”，暗喻学生会为“黑社会”。[50]

1月30日，遭校方停学的刘子颀及陈乐行就1月17日当天到语文中心抗议一事，向教职员亲身致歉。会面历时十多分钟，气氛融洽，并向学生辅导长承诺不会再犯。据说有老师已原谅他们二人。*[51][52]*

2月1日，校长钱大康向全体师生发出公开信，指学生辅导长邓裕南分别与刘子颀和陈乐行及语文中心同事会面后，决定撤销两人的暂时停学令，即时生效。[53]公开信另指出大学宗旨是教育而非惩罚，衷心希望二人真心悔过，并珍惜获第二次教育的机会，从错误中学习。校方并绝对尊重学生和平、理性表达意见的权利。不过，学生纪律程序如期进行。[54]刘子颀认为校方未审先判，表示“不觉得好开心或胜利”，希望大众未来可对焦在普通话毕业要求；陈乐行则表示“不敢松懈”。[55]

4月1日，校方决定将涉及事件的4名学生，包括学生会前会长刘子颀及中医药学院学生陈乐行一律处分。刘子颀罚停学一个学期，而中医药学院学生陈乐行则停学8日、撰写道歉信及在校内进行40小时服务。陈乐行表明会提出上诉。[56]

*后续[编辑]*
2018年6月26日，浸大教务议会通过维持普通话毕业要求，但批准同学选择是否将普通话成绩计入大学总成绩（cGPA）内。如修读不计入大学总成绩的普通话课程，其成绩将会以优秀／合格／不合格标示。浸大学生会署理会长暨教务议会学生代表雷乐希批学校“换汤不换药”。[57]

同年10月，学生事务处工作小组检视纪律委员会条文，计划修订“能导致他人有实质或潜在痛苦或伤害行为”的定义，其中“行为”除包括言语攻击、恐吓、侮辱或不道德行为外，计划将涵盖“对大学声誉造成伤害”或“伤害大学与社会关系”等行为。[58]

*要求上庄要考牌[编辑]*
2018年6月，“浸大山神”指出校方要求学会干事出席名为“CODE”的课程，若不出席有关课程，则无法行使学会权利。若学会干事缺席核心课程，须递交悔过书及为每一个缺席讲座撰写不少于1,000字的功课。学生及网民计批评校方安排“反智”、“大学变小学”、“有心打压学生组织”。[59]

*设立辱校罪风波[编辑]*
浸大学生事务委员会于2017年11月决定成立工作小组，检讨纪律程序。小组于2018年10月的首次会议提出修订纪律程序的建议。其中最大争议是在条文中新增“伤害大学与社群关系、损害大学声誉的反社会行为”、“扰乱大学正常运作”、“制造过量及不能接受的噪音造成他人痛苦”、“多次或重复轻微违规”等违规行为可当作“辱校罪”。违纪程度较轻者会被罚款、强制要求出席工作坊、暂时被禁止使用校内设施和服务，严重者或会被停学，甚至被永久退学。学生批评校方做法限制学生言论自由。[60]

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## bbccdd1470

Brainsucker said:


> That is what they want. Just look at Syria, Ukraine, etc. Everything started with the death of the protesters. For China, it won't goes anywhere. As HK is just a small city. But the West will use it to tarnish China reputation.
> 
> In order for you to do that, China should become the strongest nation on Earth first, so every other countries will afraid to you, and China can do anything without any problem. Like the US right now.
> 
> The HK polices are not stupid. They just lack of manpower. It's all depend on PRC decision now. But taking out PLA from their barrack will only make the situation worse. if my memory serve right, China has more than 1.000.000 armed police. Why don't send a quarter of them to HK as anti riot police? Just send 200.000 Armed police to HK as anti riot police, and put them under HK police command.


I'm just agreed with him that performance of the Police is disappointing. I live here, so I'm more qualified to anyone in this forum to understand and realize the ground reality in HK. What you said is one of the reasons that cause the performance of the Police worrisome and some areas indeed need improvement. However, this is also the fact that HK police is now facing the very experienced CIA, which have already successful destroyed several countries with their tactics of color revolution. So this is never an easy job, especially when most of the Media, religious and educational sectors, and more than half the people on their side. Also the gov't and people of HK are just the expendable chess pieces of this grand game between the two strongest powers. We neither have the control nor the ability to handle this situation, so the decision making is always from the Top level. If the grand strategy needs us and HK to suffer for the greater good,then so be it.

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## KungFuLee

bbccdd1470 said:


> I'm just agreed with him that performance of the Police is disappointing. I live here, so I'm more qualified to anyone in this forum to understand and realize the ground reality in HK. What you said is one of the reasons that cause the performance of the Police worrisome and some areas indeed need improvement. However, this is also the fact that HK police is now facing the very experienced CIA, which have already successful destroyed several countries with their tactics of color revolution. So this is never an easy job, especially when most of the Media, religious and educational sectors, and more than half the people on their side. Also the gov't and people of HK are just the expendable chess pieces of this grand game between the two strongest powers. We neither have the control nor the ability to handle this situation, so the decision making is always from the Top level. If the grand strategy needs us and HK to suffer for the greater good,then so be it.



Hmm....CIA.....

Well, I am guessing if CIA cannot deal with some 1m Hong Kong police, I guess the CIA weren't really such a big deal and nothing to be afraid of.

I think it's easier to blame outside force than to admit there is a certain degree of hostility within Hong Konger. I come from HKGolden and Hongkong discuss, there are many of these CIA/MI6 theory floating around. But most people ignore that there are some degree Lam Jang pissed off Hong Kong people to begin with.

I am not condoning the protestor, they are equally disgusted, but we, as hongkonger, have to admit, in some degree, there are element that the government is wrong. That does not mean the protestor is in the right. Maybe my brother is right, he don't care who's fault is it, he only care if he can get back to work.

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## bbccdd1470

HK has his own social problems, I never deny it as in my other posts. CIA is also involved in this incident, and this is also the truth. As this current trend, HK is going to recession or worse, so this is the time we have to stop those riots and protests. Come back to the negotiable table, everything can talk about it,except the HK sovereignty. However, what I'm worry about they (extremists) may not want to stop from now. From your post, you are the rational one, so welcome to this forum.

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## pakpride00090

bbccdd1470 said:


> HK has his own social problems, I never deny it as in my other posts. CIA is also involved in this incident, and this is the also the truth. As this current trend, HK is going to recession or worse, so this is the time we have to stop those riots and protests. Come back to the negotiable table, everything can talk about it,except the HK sovereignty. However, what I'm worry about they (extremists) may not want to stop from now. From your post, you are the rational one, so welcome to this forum.



Why aren't you guys coming hard on HK ? It is your territory. CIA is trying to pull-off a 1971 on you guys. Please be careful.


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## bbccdd1470

pakpride00090 said:


> Why aren't you guys coming hard on HK ? It is your territory. CIA is trying to pull-off a 1971 on you guys. Please be careful.


Honestly, a lots of us, who want to save HK from this crisis, have no idea what we could do. We keep being law abiding citizens, and try not to add more workload to the police. However, some are not patience enough would fight those rioters (BT) which in return portray as bad guys and constantly broadcast on the news by the media, while the misdeeds of the BT would be overlooked (I'm not joking). Our police is now worthless and very passive, so noone would save you from troubles if you piss off the BT.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

bbccdd1470 said:


> I live here, so I'm more qualified to anyone in this forum to understand and realize the ground reality in HK.



You are not the only one based in Hong Kong.


*C.I.A. Anti-China Smearing Campaign Flayed*

Never short of dirty clumsy tricks, now the C.I.A. is using astronomy image sharing forum to spread its disinformation!

Thus off-topics posts under the connivence and patronage of the moderators (read C.I.A.) are propagating Hong Kong protester shill's latest scam!

Try first to find the truth by yourself. The debunking will be posted at the end of this post.



*Laser Pointer Light Show In Hong Kong *

Taken by Anthony on August 7, 2019 @ Hong Kong

Details:

7th August 2019 is the Chinese Valentines Day that celebrating the annual meeting of the cowherd (Altair) and weaver girl (Vega), which they were banished to opposite sides of the Silver River (Milky Way) in mythology.

Keith Fong, the Student Union head of Hong Kong Baptist University, was arrested on 6th August night, after he purchasing ten laser pointers to use for 7th August Chinese Valentines Day star gazing event.

Police claim the laser pointers were ‘laser guns’ and charged the student with possession of ‘offensive weapons’, and demonstrated the newspaper catch fire after pointing directly for 10 seconds and 15 cm away.

Thousand of Hongkongers gathered outside the Hong Kong Space Museum on 7th August evening to create their own “laser show” to coincide with the nightly light show organised with by the Tourism Board.

Someone hold up a newspaper, hundreds of laser pointer pointing to it, to let people know laser pointers cannot catch fire unless in laboratory environmental conditions.






http://web.archive.org/web/20190809...C6-1A76-4EA4-A420-97B417AB02F6_1565190823.jpg ; https://archive.fo/EvGwq/eb0a0bc5b4351ccb27fb7160e4e2eac09a832c37.jpg ; http://web.archive.org/web/20190809...gallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=155338 ; http://archive.is/5M75b#selection-365.0-404.1
▲ 1. Scam: Someone hold up a newspaper, hundreds of laser pointer pointing to it, to let people know laser pointers cannot catch fire unless in laboratory environmental conditions. 


https://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=155338​


Spoiler: Debunking



"Someone hold up a newspaper, hundreds of laser pointer pointing to it, to let people know laser pointers cannot catch fire unless in laboratory environmental conditions. "

With hundreds of lasers as claimed, the total intensity should averaged less than 100 Watts, presuming that astronomy laser pointers vary from 100 mW to 1000 mW.

This is even enough to destroy an AA missile!

As 100 W/cm² f heat flux density can destroy AIM-9 missile and drone as produced by the U.S. Airborne Laser Lab (ALL) CO2 laser (480 kW, at 10,6 μm wavelength) mounted on a Boeing NKC-135.

Therefore the Hong Kong rioters-scammers have simply spread the targeting area to a near 0,36 m² newspaper, instead of the 1 cm² or even smaller area, that would have burned instantly as demonstrated by the police! 

Q.E.D. low IQs

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## Rasengan

bbccdd1470 said:


> Honestly, a lots of us, who want to save HK from this crisis, have no idea what we could do. We keep being law abiding citizens, and try not to add more workload to the police. However, some are not patience enough would fight those rioters (BT) which in return portray as bad guys and constantly broadcast on the news by the media, while the misdeeds of the BT would be overlooked (I'm not joking). Our police is now worthless and very passive, so noone would save you from troubles if you piss off the BT.



I spoke to my friend yesterday, he's having a tough time-fighting at the front line against these protestors. The situation becomes worse when some of his family members and friends have been pressurizing him. The circumstances are so bad his deactivated his facebook account for safety. Honestly, brother, I have known him for more than 15 years. If anything happens to him I would go crazy. You must show support to the police and even in public convince others. I did this with one of my other friend who hates China. He was extremely embarrassed when I gave him a tongue lashing, reminding him of our brotherhood with the police friend. Even he admitted the situation has gone too far and beyond the scope of the original protest. The rest of my HK friends have fallen to the cult but rest assured I will persuade them over time.

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## bbccdd1470

Rasengan said:


> I spoke to my friend yesterday, he's having a tough time-fighting at the front line against these protestors. The situation becomes worse when some of his family members and friends have been pressurizing him. The circumstances are so bad his deactivated his facebook account for safety. Honestly, brother, I have known him for more than 15 years. If anything happens to him I would go crazy. You must show support to the police and even in public convince others. I did this with one of my other friend who hates China. He was extremely embarrassed when I gave him a tongue lashing, reminding him of our brotherhood with the police friend. Even he admitted the situation has gone too far and beyond the scope of the original protest. The rest of my HK friends have fallen to the cult but rest assured I will persuade them over time.


Even I write the police is worthless and very passive in my last post, but I really understand their difficulty, since they are the one who take all the unreasonable blames and false accusations. And I'm wrong to call them worthless, in fact they are the one that stand and protect us in the front line. Sometime the lawlessness in HK and my own anger get the better of me.

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## KungFuLee

bbccdd1470 said:


> HK has his own social problems, I never deny it as in my other posts. CIA is also involved in this incident, and this is also the truth. As this current trend, HK is going to recession or worse, so this is the time we have to stop those riots and protests. Come back to the negotiable table, everything can talk about it,except the HK sovereignty. However, what I'm worry about they (extremists) may not want to stop from now. From your post, you are the rational one, so welcome to this forum.



Many people have taken many side over this course, even I have been to one of these protest back in June before it got ugly, if you ask me which side I stand on, I will say I stand on the side in my own home. I stand for myself, I don't cloud with the protester, nor sided with the government.

As for the CIA stuff, I am not really sure where does that come from. Don't get me wrong, I am pretty sure the CIA have done some bad thing in their time, who doesn't? The American, The British they are all guilty, on the other hand, so does the Chinese government. 

Was CIA involved? I am not sure, maybe, or maybe not. But does it really matter? As I said before, it's very easy to blame outside force for our "misfortune" but if we have to blame the CIA, we may as well blame the Martian as well. Surely the CIA might and could add oil to the fire, but they didn't start the extradition treaty, and they didn't start the fire themselves. we can blame the CIA, MI6 or even Mossad all day long for interfering or whatever, that make people feel good, however, did it really do anything? 

We grew up and brought up as Chinese with the idea to look inside us if and when we have encounter any problem, but for this shit show, we sure as hell look outside pretty quickly.

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## Rasengan

bbccdd1470 said:


> Even I write the police is worthless and very passive in my last post, but I really understand their difficulty, since they are the one who take all the unreasonable blames and false accusations. And I'm wrong to call them worthless, in fact they are the one that stood and protect us in the front line. Sometime the lawlessness today in HK and my own anger gets the better of me.



My police friend is frustrated too. But he has his orders brother. If the green signal was given these protestors would feel the force of the police. I feel sorry for the police, not only do they have a shitty day at work but even off duty among family and friends they are getting pressure. This can lead to depression. Luckily, my friend has a heart of a Lion and he won't falter in the face of adversity. I reminded him of his love of HK and how it was his responsibility along with his colleagues to safeguard its streets. Bottom line all my friends from HK are depressed these days on both sides of the argument. In'sha'allah things will improve in HK. We must have hope brother without it life would be meaningless.

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## bbccdd1470

KungFuLee said:


> Many people have taken many side over this course, even I have been to one of these protest back in June before it got ugly, if you ask me which side I stand on, I will say I stand on the side in my own home. I stand for myself, I don't cloud with the protester, nor sided with the government.


Good to hear that. It takes a rational mind and courage to see the real situation, my brother and sisters are still deep in the emotion and didn't realize the protest had been hijacked by hidden agenda.



KungFuLee said:


> but they didn't start the extradition treaty, and they didn't start the fire themselves. we can blame the CIA, MI6 or even Mossad all day long for interfering or whatever, that make people feel good, however, did it really do anything?


Let's agree to disagree over the extradition treaty, since i see no problem about the bill except it was rush and lack of consultation. Carrie Lam's fault was over confident and didn't realize how large the political impacts could do to the general public. However, the bill is already dead so no point on talking about it. The CIA assistance is real and it does provide help to the rioters to fight the police with violence and the tactics to further divide the society. But this is not the main point here, the main point is how could we solve the deadlocked situation in HK. From my understanding, this is already out of our hands now.

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## KungFuLee

bbccdd1470 said:


> Good to hear that. It takes a rational mind and courage to see the real situation, my brother and sisters are still deep in the emotion and didn't realize the protest had been hijacked by hidden agenda.
> 
> 
> Let's agree to disagree over the extradition treaty, since i see no problem about the bill except it was rush and lack of consultation. Carrie Lam's fault was over confident and didn't realize how large the political impacts could do to the general public. However, the bill is already dead so no point on talking about it. The CIA assistance is real and it does provide help to the rioters to fight the police with violence and the tactics to further divide the society. But this is not the main point here, the main point is how could we solve the deadlocked situation in HK. From my understanding, this is already out of our hands now.



The Bill itself is problematic, first of all, it is not coming from both Legislative, if they were from lawmaker or Executive Council, if they were advised by Chief Executive. It instead came from Security Bureau, basically it's about internal security which in charge of the Police and Fire Services. Security Service around the world don't generally introduce law. The very fact that this bill come from them itself is quite a shocker. 

Also, base on the Basic law, Hong Kong have a separate legal system until 2046, which mean the judiciary system between Hong Kong and China should be separate and should not be mixed together. I am not saying Chinese legal system is bad or whatever, but in Hong Kong, a person is presume innocent before proven guilty, and Hong Kong and China have a complete legal system which require different amount of proof to prosecute a case, which mean the extradition bill itself is violating the jurisprudence right of Hong Kong court. Whether or not the accused is guilty, which again, is beside the point because before Hong Kong court, everyone is presume innocent before be proven guilty.

To most people however, the bill is interpreted as "If you don't break the law, you won't be affected" but it actually is a bit more than that, because even if you don't break the law, you can still be accused of anything.

Also notice that the bill is not yet defeated, nor withdrawn, but the official status is suspended as per Carrie Lam, which mean it can be reintroduced later on, the only thing they need to do is to sent it to legislative council to read again. That's the reason the second round of protest started.

As I said, I don't know if CIA is involved, they could be or they may not, I don't personally think CIA is involved, there are not much to gain for them, what do you think the CIA gets to be a part of protest and civil uprising, CIA support non-government state actor and insurgency to topple government, not protestor, they may be able to create a bad rep for China, but if CIA is this big, they can find a lot of dirt on China but not to get their hand dirty like that, in fact, the action of introducing the bill in the first place is already a bad rep for Hong Kong government, they don't need the protest and riot to smear us, unless you are talking about CIA themselves show up in the protest and protest themselves, the logistic and resource involve on ground training protestor as to how to deal with the police would not justify the outcome. But again, that is just the financial side of me saying this.

But as I said, it's does not matter what the CIA may or may not do, it does matter or us what we do and what the government of Hong Kong do. As you said, the government has rushed to introduced this bill even for argument sake this bill have nothing wrong with it, I think the government need to admit that before we can move on, the protestor also need to admit their wrongdoing before we can move on, if not, I can't see how we can progress outside of this stalemate.

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## Mista

bbccdd1470 said:


> Good to hear that. It takes a rational mind and courage to see the real situation, my brother and sisters are still deep in the emotion and didn't realize the protest had been hijacked by hidden agenda.



I see irrationality is taking over on many sides.

I saw a post on Reddit of a triad member getting outnumbered and beaten up by protesters, and the comments are actually cheering and saying that he deserved it. 

Violence is wrong no matter what and shouldn't be condoned, and I'm told that the demographic surfing HK Reddit are mainly highly-educated youths. But hey, at least I see some sensible comments. I think and I hope such violence are limited to only the small number of extremists.

This is the post:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252FHongKong%252Fcomments%252Fcmjcq6%252F

On the other hand the Chinese media is even more ridiculous.

I've read official news outlets on Weibo, and they showed footages of triad members attacking protesters and portrayed them as 'patriotic' heroes 'protecting' HK. The top comments are in similar fashion, "打的好！看了很爽！祖国十四亿人挺你！！”

???

I saw a clip also shared by an official news outlet (verified with a blue tick) on Douyin yesterday which has garnered 12 million 'likes'. It showed a passerby in yellow jacket attacking the protesters with a HAMMER, and the media praised the action as “霸气反击暴徒守护香港！” The top comment with 100K 'likes' says, “应该往头脑砸！！”.

I was like totally WTF? Is that how an official media should behave, encouraging violence and hatred? And what's with so many 'likes' supporting such extreme violence? Whatever happened to basic human decency and moral values? 

I went ahead and type a comment to condemn the violence, but it got censored. 
I don't know what kind of nationalism are they imparting to their people, but that really reminds me of the Red Guards during Cultural Revolution where all irrationality has taken over common sense in the name of patriotism.

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## bbccdd1470

KungFuLee said:


> The Bill itself is problematic, first of all, it is not coming from both Legislative, if they were from lawmaker or Executive Council, if they were advised by Chief Executive. It instead came from Security Bureau, basically it's about internal security which in charge of the Police and Fire Services. Security Service around the world don't generally introduce law. The very fact that this bill come from them itself is quite a shocker.


Your post is long and there are new stuffs I did not know before. Like "It instead came from Security Bureau" so where you do get this information? any reference.

"Also, base on the Basic law, Hong Kong have a separate legal system until 2046, which mean the judiciary system between Hong Kong and China should be separate and should not be mixed together. I am not saying Chinese legal system is bad or whatever, but in Hong Kong, a person is presume innocent before proven guilty, and Hong Kong and China have a complete legal system which require different amount of proof to prosecute a case, which mean the extradition bill itself is violating the jurisprudence right of Hong Kong court. Whether or not the accused is guilty, which again, is beside the point because before Hong Kong court, everyone is presume innocent before be proven guilty."
What is this have to do with extradition treaty? So you mean common law country can not have extradition treaty with country have different law systems. I just don't understand.

"To most people however, the bill is interpreted as "If you don't break the law, you won't be affected" but it actually is a bit more than that, because even if you don't break the law, you can still be accused of anything."
The HK court will review the case with evidence, if not the accuser can always appeal to higher court if the case is involving with political or religious reason. Unless people also have no faith on the HK court.

"Also notice that the bill is not yet defeated, nor withdrawn, but the official status is suspended as per Carrie Lam, which mean it can be reintroduced later on, the only thing they need to do is to sent it to legislative council to read again. That's the reason the second round of protest started."
This is the only point I'm agreed here.

I don't want to start the CIA, just let other members to judge if there are any CIA involved with this.

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## Mista

bbccdd1470 said:


> Your post is long and there are new stuffs I did not know before. Like "It instead came from Security Bureau" so where you do get this information? any reference.
> 
> "Also, base on the Basic law, Hong Kong have a separate legal system until 2046, which mean the judiciary system between Hong Kong and China should be separate and should not be mixed together. I am not saying Chinese legal system is bad or whatever, but in Hong Kong, a person is presume innocent before proven guilty, and Hong Kong and China have a complete legal system which require different amount of proof to prosecute a case, which mean the extradition bill itself is violating the jurisprudence right of Hong Kong court. Whether or not the accused is guilty, which again, is beside the point because before Hong Kong court, everyone is presume innocent before be proven guilty."
> What is this have to do with extradition treaty? So you mean common law country can not have extradition treaty with country have different law systems. I just don't understand.
> 
> "To most people however, the bill is interpreted as "If you don't break the law, you won't be affected" but it actually is a bit more than that, because even if you don't break the law, you can still be accused of anything."
> The HK court will review the case with evidence, if not the accuser can always appeal to higher court if the case is involving with political or religious reason. Unless people also have no faith on the HK court.
> 
> "Also notice that the bill is not yet defeated, nor withdrawn, but the official status is suspended as per Carrie Lam, which mean it can be reintroduced later on, the only thing they need to do is to sent it to legislative council to read again. That's the reason the second round of protest started."
> This is the only point I'm agreed here.
> 
> I don't want to start the CIA, just let other members to judge if there are any CIA involved with this.



I'm not sure whether the CIA is involved and inciting violence among those youth, but I read that even lawyers, and thousands of them, are coming out to protest against the extradition bill?







https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/...t-black-march-controversial-extradition-bill/
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/...nd-political-prosecutions-hong-kong-protests/

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## bbccdd1470

I'm no law expert, and there were posts discussing about the points from the lawyers from other forum. I can't remember much now and with my English skill it may take a long time to comprehense and write it out here. Just let's other member to take the job.


Mista said:


> I'm not sure whether the CIA is involved and inciting violence among those youth, but I read that even lawyers, and thousands of them, are coming out to protest against the extradition bill?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/...t-black-march-controversial-extradition-bill/
> https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/...nd-political-prosecutions-hong-kong-protests/

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## bolo

bbccdd1470 said:


> Even I write the police is worthless and very passive in my last post, but I really understand their difficulty, since they are the one who take all the unreasonable blames and false accusations. And I'm wrong to call them worthless, in fact they are the one that stand and protect us in the front line. Sometime the lawlessness in HK and my own anger get the better of me.


Perhaps you need to remind the HK police steel bullets work alot better than rubber bullets or persuasion.

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## KungFuLee

bbccdd1470 said:


> Your post is long and there are new stuffs I did not know before. Like "It instead came from Security Bureau" so where you do get this information? any reference.
> 
> "Also, base on the Basic law, Hong Kong have a separate legal system until 2046, which mean the judiciary system between Hong Kong and China should be separate and should not be mixed together. I am not saying Chinese legal system is bad or whatever, but in Hong Kong, a person is presume innocent before proven guilty, and Hong Kong and China have a complete legal system which require different amount of proof to prosecute a case, which mean the extradition bill itself is violating the jurisprudence right of Hong Kong court. Whether or not the accused is guilty, which again, is beside the point because before Hong Kong court, everyone is presume innocent before be proven guilty."
> What is this have to do with extradition treaty? So you mean common law country can not have extradition treaty with country have different law systems. I just don't understand.
> 
> "To most people however, the bill is interpreted as "If you don't break the law, you won't be affected" but it actually is a bit more than that, because even if you don't break the law, you can still be accused of anything."
> The HK court will review the case with evidence, if not the accuser can always appeal to higher court if the case is involving with political or religious reason. Unless people also have no faith on the HK court.
> 
> "Also notice that the bill is not yet defeated, nor withdrawn, but the official status is suspended as per Carrie Lam, which mean it can be reintroduced later on, the only thing they need to do is to sent it to legislative council to read again. That's the reason the second round of protest started."
> This is the only point I'm agreed here.
> 
> I don't want to start the CIA, just let other members to judge if there are any CIA involved with this.



Your post is long and there are new stuffs I did not know before. Like "It instead came from Security Bureau" so where you do get this information? any reference.

The Amendment Bill is suggested by Security Bureau on 15th February

According to Security Bureau website (www.sb.gov.hk) it was lodged into legislative council on 26th March






Also, according to Hong Kong Government News

https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201902/15/P2019021500726.htm

以下是保安局局長李家超今日（二月十五日）出席立法會保安事務委員會會議後，在立法會大樓會見傳媒的談話全文：

* 保安局局長：今次保安局提交修訂《逃犯條例》及《刑事事宜相互法律協助條例》*，當然觸發點是因為台灣殺人案，凸顯了我們現在的法律缺陷，以及執行上的很多漏洞。但是，我們必須處理的，是如果類似的案件幾個月之後在另一個司法管轄區同樣發生，我們是否不處理呢？

The bill is not lodged by either Legislative Council or Executive Council like we used to have new law and new bill, the law is lodged by SB, which is highly unusual because SB enforce law, not proposal law.

What is this have to do with extradition treaty? So you mean common law country can not have extradition treaty with country have different law systems. I just don't understand.

There are two problems, the proposed bill is not an "Extradition" treat, and the proposed bill remove the Chinese Exclusion formed in 1987

I am not a lawyer, I do have a Law Degree from HKU like many people who want to be an accredited accountant, (I have not passed bar exam yet, and I have no intention to take one) The bill amendment is not the same as a standard treaty. To start with, the 2019 amendment do not actually require supreme court to rule whether the subject is suitable for extradition, the "special surrender arrangement" from the bill is solely the discretion from the Chief Executive

According to Legco, the proposed bill read

https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr18-19/chinese/bills/b201903291.pdf

(3) 第 2(1) 條—— 按筆劃數目順序加入 “ *特別移交安排 (special surrender arrangements) 指符合 以下規定的安排*—— (a) 該等安排適用於—— (i) 香港政府及香港以外地方的政府；或 (ii) 香港及香港以外地方；及 (b) 作出該等安排，是為了在特定情況下，移交因 涉及有關罪行而被追緝以作檢控、判刑或強制 執行判刑的一名或多於一名特定人士；而有關 罪行是指符合以下兩項者—— (i) 屬違反香港或該地方的法律的罪行；及 (ii) 不屬以下情況的罪行：就該罪行而言，本 條例中的程序憑藉根據第3(1) 條作出而 現正生效的命令適用於香港及該地方；”。
4. 加入第3A 條 在第3 條之後—— 加入
“3A. 移交逃犯的特別安排 (1) 如已有就某人作出的特別移交安排，則就該人而 言，本條例中的程序適用於香港及該等安排所涉及 的香港以外地方，而如該等安排載有任何條文，以
第2部 第4條
*《2019年逃犯及刑事事宜相互法律協助法例(修訂)條例草案》*
C502
在該等程序之上，進一步限制可移交該人的情況， 則該等程序適用時須受該條文所規限。 (2) 在符合第(3) 款的規定下，如由行政長官發出或*根據行政長官的權限發出的證明書*( 證明書 ) 述明以 下事項，則證明書是該等事項的確證—— (a) 已有就某人作出的特別移交安排；及 (b) 就該人而言，本條例中的程序適用於該等安排 所涉及的香港以外地方，以及( 如適用的話) 該等安排載有條文，以在該等程序之上，進一 步限制可移交該人的情況，而該等程序適用時 須受該等條文所規限。 (3) 證明書須附有所提述的特別移交安排的文本。 (4) 凡就特別移交安排斷定某罪行是否有關罪行—— (a) 第 (5) 款取代第2(2) 條而適用；及 (b) 第2(3)條適用，猶如當中提述“第(2)款”之處， 是提述“第 3A(5) 條”一樣。 (5) 就本條例而言，如屬以下情況，則任何人所犯的違 反訂明地方的法律的罪行，即屬違反該法律的有關 罪行——

Another issue is that the Proposed Bill also remove China Mainland as an exclusion in the case, which mean China can now be the destination for the special surrender agreement, China was removed as an extradition partner in 1987 during British-China summit regarding the Hong Kong sovereignty affair, which we all know form the basis of Basic Law. China was excluded explicitly because the lawmaker of both side wanted the separated legal jurisdiction between Hong Kong and China.

According to the same amendment

修訂第2 條 ( 釋義) 第 2(1) 條， 相互法律協助的安排 的定義—— (a) (a)(i) 段—— 廢除 “( 中央人民政府或中華人民共和國的任何其他部分 的政府除外)”； (b) (a)(ii) 段—— 廢除 “( 中華人民共和國的任何其他部分除外)”。


As I said before, I am not saying nor indicating Chinese legal system is any better or worse than ours in Hong Kong, just the systems are different, which mean the legal boundary and limit are not the same between China and Hong Kong as to what constitute a crime and the level of punishment. The prime example lawmaker used then and still is now, is capital punishment, which Hong Kong don't have but China have.

The surrender is not decided by any of the Hong Kong Court System, but rather from the Chief Executive herself, and in cases like HK-US extradition, Supreme Court will not extradite if US do not drop the death penalty.

If you want to start negotiating a treaty or amendment to basically amend Basic Law, should that law be introduce by LegCo instead of SB? Also, by doing so, we basically void all of the Basic Law with respect to Jurisdiction Sovereignty, while it is related to foreign country, it does not belong to foreign affair, which is China charge, Hong Kong government should bare all extradition responsibility alone.

The HK court will review the case with evidence, if not the accuser can always appeal to higher court if the case is involving with political or religious reason. Unless people also have no faith on the HK court.

The bill does not require Hong Kong Court system to approve such special surrender arrangement, one only need Chief Executive Officer approval



Mista said:


> I'm not sure whether the CIA is involved and inciting violence among those youth, but I read that even lawyers, and thousands of them, are coming out to protest against the extradition bill?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/...t-black-march-controversial-extradition-bill/
> https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/...nd-political-prosecutions-hong-kong-protests/



Yes, I am not going to say all lawyer were against it, but most do.

The proposed bill would basically merge the Hong Kong jurisdiction to China on the order of Chief Executive, and we all know Chinese Government choose that position, so basically, if you put 2 and 2 together, it mean China will now have selective control of Hong Kong Judicial Jurisdiction, which was separated in Basic Law.

Read my reply to the previous poster to understand why this bill by-pass the separation of Legal System in Hong Kong and China

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Mista

KungFuLee said:


> Your post is long and there are new stuffs I did not know before. Like "It instead came from Security Bureau" so where you do get this information? any reference.
> 
> The Amendment Bill is suggested by Security Bureau on 15th February
> 
> According to Security Bureau website (www.sb.gov.hk) it was lodged into legislative council on 26th March
> 
> View attachment 573341
> 
> 
> Also, according to Hong Kong Government News
> 
> https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201902/15/P2019021500726.htm
> 
> 以下是保安局局長李家超今日（二月十五日）出席立法會保安事務委員會會議後，在立法會大樓會見傳媒的談話全文：
> 
> * 保安局局長：今次保安局提交修訂《逃犯條例》及《刑事事宜相互法律協助條例》*，當然觸發點是因為台灣殺人案，凸顯了我們現在的法律缺陷，以及執行上的很多漏洞。但是，我們必須處理的，是如果類似的案件幾個月之後在另一個司法管轄區同樣發生，我們是否不處理呢？
> 
> The bill is not lodged by either Legislative Council or Executive Council like we used to have new law and new bill, the law is lodged by SB, which is highly unusual because SB enforce law, not proposal law.
> 
> What is this have to do with extradition treaty? So you mean common law country can not have extradition treaty with country have different law systems. I just don't understand.
> 
> There are two problems, the proposed bill is not an "Extradition" treat, and the proposed bill remove the Chinese Exclusion formed in 1987
> 
> I am not a lawyer, I do have a Law Degree from HKU like many people who want to be an accredited accountant, (I have not passed bar exam yet, and I have no intention to take one) The bill amendment is not the same as a standard treaty. To start with, the 2019 amendment do not actually require supreme court to rule whether the subject is suitable for extradition, the "special surrender arrangement" from the bill is solely the discretion from the Chief Executive
> 
> According to Legco, the proposed bill read
> 
> https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr18-19/chinese/bills/b201903291.pdf
> 
> (3) 第 2(1) 條—— 按筆劃數目順序加入 “ *特別移交安排 (special surrender arrangements) 指符合 以下規定的安排*—— (a) 該等安排適用於—— (i) 香港政府及香港以外地方的政府；或 (ii) 香港及香港以外地方；及 (b) 作出該等安排，是為了在特定情況下，移交因 涉及有關罪行而被追緝以作檢控、判刑或強制 執行判刑的一名或多於一名特定人士；而有關 罪行是指符合以下兩項者—— (i) 屬違反香港或該地方的法律的罪行；及 (ii) 不屬以下情況的罪行：就該罪行而言，本 條例中的程序憑藉根據第3(1) 條作出而 現正生效的命令適用於香港及該地方；”。
> 4. 加入第3A 條 在第3 條之後—— 加入
> “3A. 移交逃犯的特別安排 (1) 如已有就某人作出的特別移交安排，則就該人而 言，本條例中的程序適用於香港及該等安排所涉及 的香港以外地方，而如該等安排載有任何條文，以
> 第2部 第4條
> *《2019年逃犯及刑事事宜相互法律協助法例(修訂)條例草案》*
> C502
> 在該等程序之上，進一步限制可移交該人的情況， 則該等程序適用時須受該條文所規限。 (2) 在符合第(3) 款的規定下，如由行政長官發出或*根據行政長官的權限發出的證明書*( 證明書 ) 述明以 下事項，則證明書是該等事項的確證—— (a) 已有就某人作出的特別移交安排；及 (b) 就該人而言，本條例中的程序適用於該等安排 所涉及的香港以外地方，以及( 如適用的話) 該等安排載有條文，以在該等程序之上，進一 步限制可移交該人的情況，而該等程序適用時 須受該等條文所規限。 (3) 證明書須附有所提述的特別移交安排的文本。 (4) 凡就特別移交安排斷定某罪行是否有關罪行—— (a) 第 (5) 款取代第2(2) 條而適用；及 (b) 第2(3)條適用，猶如當中提述“第(2)款”之處， 是提述“第 3A(5) 條”一樣。 (5) 就本條例而言，如屬以下情況，則任何人所犯的違 反訂明地方的法律的罪行，即屬違反該法律的有關 罪行——
> 
> Another issue is that the Proposed Bill also remove China Mainland as an exclusion in the case, which mean China can now be the destination for the special surrender agreement, China was removed as an extradition partner in 1987 during British-China summit regarding the Hong Kong sovereignty affair, which we all know form the basis of Basic Law. China was excluded explicitly because the lawmaker of both side wanted the separated legal jurisdiction between Hong Kong and China.
> 
> According to the same amendment
> 
> 修訂第2 條 ( 釋義) 第 2(1) 條， 相互法律協助的安排 的定義—— (a) (a)(i) 段—— 廢除 “( 中央人民政府或中華人民共和國的任何其他部分 的政府除外)”； (b) (a)(ii) 段—— 廢除 “( 中華人民共和國的任何其他部分除外)”。
> 
> 
> As I said before, I am not saying nor indicating Chinese legal system is any better or worse than ours in Hong Kong, just the systems are different, which mean the legal boundary and limit are not the same between China and Hong Kong as to what constitute a crime and the level of punishment. The prime example lawmaker used then and still is now, is capital punishment, which Hong Kong don't have but China have.
> 
> The surrender is not decided by any of the Hong Kong Court System, but rather from the Chief Executive herself, and in cases like HK-US extradition, Supreme Court will not extradite if US do not drop the death penalty.
> 
> If you want to start negotiating a treaty or amendment to basically amend Basic Law, should that law be introduce by LegCo instead of SB? Also, by doing so, we basically void all of the Basic Law with respect to Jurisdiction Sovereignty, while it is related to foreign country, it does not belong to foreign affair, which is China charge, Hong Kong government should bare all extradition responsibility alone.
> 
> The HK court will review the case with evidence, if not the accuser can always appeal to higher court if the case is involving with political or religious reason. Unless people also have no faith on the HK court.
> 
> The bill does not require Hong Kong Court system to approve such special surrender arrangement, one only need Chief Executive Officer approval
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I am not going to say all lawyer were against it, but most do.
> 
> The proposed bill would basically merge the Hong Kong jurisdiction to China on the order of Chief Executive, and we all know Chinese Government choose that position, so basically, if you put 2 and 2 together, it mean China will now have selective control of Hong Kong Judicial Jurisdiction, which was separated in Basic Law.
> 
> Read my reply to the previous poster to understand why this bill by-pass the separation of Legal System in Hong Kong and China



Thanks. Great to see someone with legal training shedding some light on why the bill is controversial.


----------



## bbccdd1470

KungFuLee said:


> Your post is long and there are new stuffs I did not know before. Like "It instead came from Security Bureau" so where you do get this information? any reference.
> 
> The Amendment Bill is suggested by Security Bureau on 15th February
> 
> According to Security Bureau website (www.sb.gov.hk) it was lodged into legislative council on 26th March
> 
> View attachment 573341
> 
> 
> Also, according to Hong Kong Government News
> 
> https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201902/15/P2019021500726.htm
> 
> 以下是保安局局長李家超今日（二月十五日）出席立法會保安事務委員會會議後，在立法會大樓會見傳媒的談話全文：
> 
> * 保安局局長：今次保安局提交修訂《逃犯條例》及《刑事事宜相互法律協助條例》*，當然觸發點是因為台灣殺人案，凸顯了我們現在的法律缺陷，以及執行上的很多漏洞。但是，我們必須處理的，是如果類似的案件幾個月之後在另一個司法管轄區同樣發生，我們是否不處理呢？
> 
> The bill is not lodged by either Legislative Council or Executive Council like we used to have new law and new bill, the law is lodged by SB, which is highly unusual because SB enforce law, not proposal law.
> 
> What is this have to do with extradition treaty? So you mean common law country can not have extradition treaty with country have different law systems. I just don't understand.
> 
> There are two problems, the proposed bill is not an "Extradition" treat, and the proposed bill remove the Chinese Exclusion formed in 1987
> 
> I am not a lawyer, I do have a Law Degree from HKU like many people who want to be an accredited accountant, (I have not passed bar exam yet, and I have no intention to take one) The bill amendment is not the same as a standard treaty. To start with, the 2019 amendment do not actually require supreme court to rule whether the subject is suitable for extradition, the "special surrender arrangement" from the bill is solely the discretion from the Chief Executive
> 
> According to Legco, the proposed bill read
> 
> https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr18-19/chinese/bills/b201903291.pdf
> 
> (3) 第 2(1) 條—— 按筆劃數目順序加入 “ *特別移交安排 (special surrender arrangements) 指符合 以下規定的安排*—— (a) 該等安排適用於—— (i) 香港政府及香港以外地方的政府；或 (ii) 香港及香港以外地方；及 (b) 作出該等安排，是為了在特定情況下，移交因 涉及有關罪行而被追緝以作檢控、判刑或強制 執行判刑的一名或多於一名特定人士；而有關 罪行是指符合以下兩項者—— (i) 屬違反香港或該地方的法律的罪行；及 (ii) 不屬以下情況的罪行：就該罪行而言，本 條例中的程序憑藉根據第3(1) 條作出而 現正生效的命令適用於香港及該地方；”。
> 4. 加入第3A 條 在第3 條之後—— 加入
> “3A. 移交逃犯的特別安排 (1) 如已有就某人作出的特別移交安排，則就該人而 言，本條例中的程序適用於香港及該等安排所涉及 的香港以外地方，而如該等安排載有任何條文，以
> 第2部 第4條
> *《2019年逃犯及刑事事宜相互法律協助法例(修訂)條例草案》*
> C502
> 在該等程序之上，進一步限制可移交該人的情況， 則該等程序適用時須受該條文所規限。 (2) 在符合第(3) 款的規定下，如由行政長官發出或*根據行政長官的權限發出的證明書*( 證明書 ) 述明以 下事項，則證明書是該等事項的確證—— (a) 已有就某人作出的特別移交安排；及 (b) 就該人而言，本條例中的程序適用於該等安排 所涉及的香港以外地方，以及( 如適用的話) 該等安排載有條文，以在該等程序之上，進一 步限制可移交該人的情況，而該等程序適用時 須受該等條文所規限。 (3) 證明書須附有所提述的特別移交安排的文本。 (4) 凡就特別移交安排斷定某罪行是否有關罪行—— (a) 第 (5) 款取代第2(2) 條而適用；及 (b) 第2(3)條適用，猶如當中提述“第(2)款”之處， 是提述“第 3A(5) 條”一樣。 (5) 就本條例而言，如屬以下情況，則任何人所犯的違 反訂明地方的法律的罪行，即屬違反該法律的有關 罪行——
> 
> Another issue is that the Proposed Bill also remove China Mainland as an exclusion in the case, which mean China can now be the destination for the special surrender agreement, China was removed as an extradition partner in 1987 during British-China summit regarding the Hong Kong sovereignty affair, which we all know form the basis of Basic Law. China was excluded explicitly because the lawmaker of both side wanted the separated legal jurisdiction between Hong Kong and China.
> 
> According to the same amendment
> 
> 修訂第2 條 ( 釋義) 第 2(1) 條， 相互法律協助的安排 的定義—— (a) (a)(i) 段—— 廢除 “( 中央人民政府或中華人民共和國的任何其他部分 的政府除外)”； (b) (a)(ii) 段—— 廢除 “( 中華人民共和國的任何其他部分除外)”。
> 
> 
> As I said before, I am not saying nor indicating Chinese legal system is any better or worse than ours in Hong Kong, just the systems are different, which mean the legal boundary and limit are not the same between China and Hong Kong as to what constitute a crime and the level of punishment. The prime example lawmaker used then and still is now, is capital punishment, which Hong Kong don't have but China have.
> 
> The surrender is not decided by any of the Hong Kong Court System, but rather from the Chief Executive herself, and in cases like HK-US extradition, Supreme Court will not extradite if US do not drop the death penalty.
> 
> If you want to start negotiating a treaty or amendment to basically amend Basic Law, should that law be introduce by LegCo instead of SB? Also, by doing so, we basically void all of the Basic Law with respect to Jurisdiction Sovereignty, while it is related to foreign country, it does not belong to foreign affair, which is China charge, Hong Kong government should bare all extradition responsibility alone.
> 
> The HK court will review the case with evidence, if not the accuser can always appeal to higher court if the case is involving with political or religious reason. Unless people also have no faith on the HK court.
> 
> The bill does not require Hong Kong Court system to approve such special surrender arrangement, one only need Chief Executive Officer approval
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I am not going to say all lawyer were against it, but most do.
> 
> The proposed bill would basically merge the Hong Kong jurisdiction to China on the order of Chief Executive, and we all know Chinese Government choose that position, so basically, if you put 2 and 2 together, it mean China will now have selective control of Hong Kong Judicial Jurisdiction, which was separated in Basic Law.
> 
> Read my reply to the previous poster to understand why this bill by-pass the separation of Legal System in Hong Kong and China


Your post is detailed and change my views on this issue. Now I see the reason why the bill have to withdrew, where bill is dead is not enough. Thanks.



KungFuLee said:


> The bill does not require Hong Kong Court system to approve such special surrender arrangement, one only need Chief Executive Officer approval


I heard the gov't said every case have to go through the court and the court can prevent to extradite case with political and religious reason, so is that mean the gov't lie to us where the court has no such power.
After rereading your post, I think you are right, the agreement does not require the approval from the court. So there was the problem why Carrie Lam kept saying people can appeal to higher court in the news.

I found this on Wiki:
"To provide that a certificate issued by or under the authority of the Chief Executive is conclusive evidence of there being special surrender arrangements, such that the certificate will serve as a basis to activate the surrender procedures. Such activation does not mean that the fugitive will definitely be surrendered as the request must go through all statutory procedures, including the issuance of an authority to proceed by the Chief Executive, the committal hearing by the court and the eventual making of the surrender order by the Chief Executive. Other procedural safeguards, such as application for habeas corpus, application for discharge in case of delay, and judicial review of the Chief Executive's decision, as provided under the FOO will remain unchanged."

So is that mean the special surrender arrangement would go through these procedures, the issuance of an authority to proceed by the Chief Executive, the committal hearing by the court and the eventual making of the surrender order by the Chief Executive. So the final decision is still made by the CE regardless of the result of the hearing by the Court.

After rereading your post several times, I really get the picture now even there are procedural safeguards of the agreements. This bill would cause more harm then benefit. They should have included the court approval at the first decision-making, and the bill should not proposed by the SB at first.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## KungFuLee

Mista said:


> Thanks. Great to see someone with legal training shedding some light on why the bill is controversial.



That's where a law degree comes in handy, however, I am more into Ffinance than Law, but that was where the double degree were, and my plan is to work as either a corporate lawyer or chartered accountant in the future.....

But yes, the bill is very controversial, but you will need some training to understand how controversial it was. Because most people without any legal knowledge would think "It won't bother me if I did not break any law" there are a bit more than that.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## KungFuLee

bbccdd1470 said:


> Your post is detailed and change my views on this issue. Now I see the reason why the bill have to withdrew, where bill is dead is not enough. Thanks.
> 
> 
> I heard the gov't said every case have to go through the court and the court can prevent to extradite case with political and religious reason, so is that mean the gov't lie to us where the court has no such power.
> After rereading your post, I think you are right, the agreement does not require the approval from the court. So there was the problem why Carrie Lam kept saying people can appeal to higher court in the news.
> 
> I found this on Wiki:
> "To provide that a certificate issued by or under the authority of the Chief Executive is conclusive evidence of there being special surrender arrangements, such that the certificate will serve as a basis to activate the surrender procedures. Such activation does not mean that the fugitive will definitely be surrendered as the request must go through all statutory procedures, including the issuance of an authority to proceed by the Chief Executive, the committal hearing by the court and the eventual making of the surrender order by the Chief Executive. Other procedural safeguards, such as application for habeas corpus, application for discharge in case of delay, and judicial review of the Chief Executive's decision, as provided under the FOO will remain unchanged."
> 
> So is that mean the special surrender arrangement would go through these procedures, the issuance of an authority to proceed by the Chief Executive, the committal hearing by the court and the eventual making of the surrender order by the Chief Executive. So the final decision is still made by the CE regardless of the result of the hearing by the Court.
> 
> After rereading your post several times, I really get the picture now even there are procedural safeguards of the agreements. This bill would cause more harm then benefit. They should have included the court approval at the first decision-making, and the bill should not proposed by the SB at first.



The bill is controversial, but that does not excuse what the protestor did, it may have started from this bill, but it went too far now, I was on the side of the protestor when the bill started gathering momentum, but now I see them as nothing as a bunch of rascal or rioter. Not too many people genuine care about the bill anymore.

At the end of the day, I think the only thing it can solve the situation is.

For the government to withdrew the bill.
For the government to prosecute any protestor who have actually breaking the law.
For the protestor to apologise for the damage, both in image and physical damages, to Hong Kong and Hong Kong People.

I think it should start with the Bill, defeat or withdraw the bill, then there are no more "Reason" for the rioter, and if the riot persist, then I think Law Enforcement should use heavy hand tactics to end the riot. But very importantly, not before the government officially defeat the bill.

The Bill offer basic legal right for the appliance, which in the form of committal hearing but committal hearing is actually redundant in this case, because the original arresting authority is not Hong Kong. And basic right such as Habeas Corpus and the right to have a speedy trail does not really have the same criminal safeguard as a normal surrender agreement. Which, well, to be honest, do nothing, I mean if the CE sign the order or certificate, that, according to the bill, is "conclusive" evidence of special arrangement.

Also it's interesting to note that the first point from the Wikipedia (Which was copied from Hong Kong Government News site https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201903/26/P2019032600708.htm)

(1) To differentiate case-based surrender arrangements (to be defined as "special surrender arrangements" in the proposal) from general long-term surrender arrangements;

Which seperate the amendment to the normal C503 FOO. 

But yes, on top of all that, such bill is initiated by SB is probably the icing of the cake as to what is wrong with this bill.

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## grandmaster

bbccdd1470 said:


> Your post is detailed and change my views on this issue. Now I see the reason why the bill have to withdrew, where bill is dead is not enough. Thanks.
> 
> 
> I heard the gov't said every case have to go through the court and the court can prevent to extradite case with political and religious reason, so is that mean the gov't lie to us where the court has no such power.
> After rereading your post, I think you are right, the agreement does not require the approval from the court. So there was the problem why Carrie Lam kept saying people can appeal to higher court in the news.
> 
> I found this on Wiki:
> "To provide that a certificate issued by or under the authority of the Chief Executive is conclusive evidence of there being special surrender arrangements, such that the certificate will serve as a basis to activate the surrender procedures. Such activation does not mean that the fugitive will definitely be surrendered as the request must go through all statutory procedures, including the issuance of an authority to proceed by the Chief Executive, the committal hearing by the court and the eventual making of the surrender order by the Chief Executive. Other procedural safeguards, such as application for habeas corpus, application for discharge in case of delay, and judicial review of the Chief Executive's decision, as provided under the FOO will remain unchanged."
> 
> So is that mean the special surrender arrangement would go through these procedures, the issuance of an authority to proceed by the Chief Executive, the committal hearing by the court and the eventual making of the surrender order by the Chief Executive. So the final decision is still made by the CE regardless of the result of the hearing by the Court.
> 
> After rereading your post several times, I really get the picture now even there are procedural safeguards of the agreements. This bill would cause more harm then benefit. They should have included the court approval at the first decision-making, and the bill should not proposed by the SB at first.



What is wrong with SB proposed first? are SB not formed by humans? Do you think only proposing by protesters first is correct? Do you think only proposing by UK first is correct? the bill have not become law yet. How do you see it causing harm than benefit? Are you god? so you can see thing ahead of time or just base upon your hyper-assumption? 
Most protesters are chanting western democracy, so now let look into the US treaty agreement with Cananda in case of Meng Wanzhou for example, they didn't need court decision, they just need DOJ or some department's decision. another case, ICE can arrest illegal immigrants without court approval. there is nothing right or wrong with these. but violent and extremist liberals will be afraid of these. 
I see the hong kong protesters are too violent by breaking the laws more than any protest in the world. In the US, if protesters go beyond the designated or lawful areas or causing damage any property, they will be arrested and prosecuted. In Hong Kong, the protesters think they are kings, they demand independent investigation into something else, but not any investigation into how violent they are, how much properties damage they need to paid, they are still talking like they are right.

If protesters are not purely protest against the bill, then surely there is foreign agencies' involvement. Are you blind or you pretending you are blind? don't you see them show anti-china propaganda everywhere during these protests?​

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## eldamar

Wow man check out 2:49

God damn bloody treacherous traitors

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## bbccdd1470

grandmaster said:


> How do you see it causing harm than benefit?


Because the bill is controversial and opened the opportunity for people with hidden agenda to attack the HK gov't. As you already see how HK looks like today, no benefit and just harm. At first I didn't realize how controversial this bill is, and now I support our CE to declare the bill is withdrew, so people who against the bill can get the answer, and without further giving our enemy the excuse for riot.

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## Mista

KungFuLee said:


> I am not saying Chinese legal system is bad or whatever, but in Hong Kong, a person is presume innocent before proven guilty, and Hong Kong and China have a complete legal system which require different amount of proof to prosecute a case, which mean the extradition bill itself is violating the jurisprudence right of Hong Kong court.



Wait, China doesn't practice 'innocent until proven guilty'?


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## eldamar

= this is not democracy. It's an anarchy disguised as one.









These are big time traitors.




















三代仆街，全家咸家铲

Looking at them fills me up with intense disgusts. Its like Singaporeans, Pakistanis or Indians waving the Union jack today.

The Chinese government must go after their families. An individual represents his/her entire family.

No self-loving people will do this kinda thing.

I must say the MI6 did a really good job.

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## grandmaster

bbccdd1470 said:


> Because the bill is controversial and opened the opportunity for people with hidden agenda to attack the HK gov't. As you already see how HK looks like today, no benefit and just harm. At first I didn't realize how controversial this bill is, and now I support our CE to declare the bill is withdrew, so people who against the bill can get the answer, and without further giving our enemy the excuse for riot.


You cannot see anything. Being harmful and benefit are invisible. You cannot see it. Being harmful and benefit are only exist in your imagination and calculation. And in reality, being harmful and benefiting are duality. They are two opposite properties of all things. You may think it is harmful to you, but other may thing it is benefit to them. That say, in this case, the bill can be benefit to some people too.

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## ARMalik

Looks like US is behind these protests in HK.

*US calls China ‘thuggish regime’ for targeting American diplomat who met Hong Kong protesters*
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...merican-diplomat-who-met-hong-kong-protesters

A US official has described China as a “thuggish regime” for disclosing personal details about a US diplomat who met student leaders involved in Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement.

The denunciation came as the US became the latest country to issue a travel alert to the territory on Thursday, and Hong Kong’s police force brought out of retirement a senior officer who led the police response to the 2014 Occupy movement.

China’s Hong Kong office asked the US on Thursday to *explain reports in Communist party-controlled media that American diplomats were in contact with leaders of protests *that have convulsed Hong Kong for nine weeks.

Hong Kong newspaper Ta Kung Pao published a *photograph of a US diplomat, who it identified as Julie Eadeh of the consulate’s political section, talking to student leaders including Joshua Wong in the lobby of a luxury hotel*.

The photograph appeared under the headline “Foreign Forces Intervene”, continuing a theme of previous protests from Beijing officials, who have blamed Hong Kong’s unrest on “black hands” from the US.

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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> What is wrong with SB proposed first? are SB not formed by humans? Do you think only proposing by protesters first is correct? Do you think only proposing by UK first is correct? the bill have not become law yet. How do you see it causing harm than benefit? Are you god? so you can see thing ahead of time or just base upon your hyper-assumption?
> Most protesters are chanting western democracy, so now let look into the US treaty agreement with Cananda in case of Meng Wanzhou for example, they didn't need court decision, they just need DOJ or some department's decision. another case, ICE can arrest illegal immigrants without court approval. there is nothing right or wrong with these. but violent and extremist liberals will be afraid of these.
> I see the hong kong protesters are too violent by breaking the laws more than any protest in the world. In the US, if protesters go beyond the designated or lawful areas or causing damage any property, they will be arrested and prosecuted. In Hong Kong, the protesters think they are kings, they demand independent investigation into something else, but not any investigation into how violent they are, how much properties damage they need to paid, they are still talking like they are right.
> 
> If protesters are not purely protest against the bill, then surely there is foreign agencies' involvement. Are you blind or you pretending you are blind? don't you see them show anti-china propaganda everywhere during these protests?​



What is wrong with SB proposed first? are SB not formed by humans? Do you think only proposing by protesters first is correct? Do you think only proposing by UK first is correct? the bill have not become law yet. How do you see it causing harm than benefit? Are you god? so you can see thing ahead of time or just base upon your hyper-assumption? 

I cannot be sure where you are from since you don't have a flag display, in Hong Kong, the governmental power are separated into three branch. Legislative Power, Executive Power and Judiciary Power, each power was oversee by a single department. Legislative Council (LegCo), Executive Council (ExeCo) and Security Bureau (SB) 

What's wrong with SB lodging amendment is to the same tune as a Police Officer making up law as they go enforce it. Say for example, a Police can stop you for no reason and arrest you, and then the police officer can seek amendment to arrest you, even if you did not do anything wrong. And law amendment can be applied retrospectively, so if SB have the right to propose law, they can applies to the population to a time even before said law is passed. Which will give more than enough power for SB to turn into Fascist Organisation, as if the power of policing in Hong Kong is not enough already.

If you don't live in Hong Kong, chances are you won't understand how this is a bad thing, 

Most protesters are chanting western democracy, so now let look into the US treaty agreement with Cananda in case of Meng Wanzhou for example, they didn't need court decision, they just need DOJ or some department's decision. another case, ICE can arrest illegal immigrants without court approval. there is nothing right or wrong with these. but violent and extremist liberals will be afraid of these. 

US detain Meng is another issue, those are from Extradition Treaty between US and Canada, and if I remember correctly Meng is still appealing the extradition.

The Extradition Amendment Bill is NOT an extradition agreement, it instead wrote a special clause (3A) into the existing Extradition Order called FOO, the added clause, the "Special Surrender Arrangement" is a point to point, case by case special arrangement that, as stated by the Hong Kong Government Official news, is separated and distinct as with other continual extradition agreement, and it's outside the Hong Kong court system and it's conclusively lies with Chief Executive.

If you have to use Meng as an example, if Canada have this "Special Surrender Arrangement" that Hong Kong is proposing, As long as Trudeau gives an okay and giving the proper certification, Meng would be extradited to the US immediately without even going thru the Canadian court, then Meng would already be in US federal prison instead of on bail in Canada. Since we all know Canada is a US Lackey and well...

ICE can of course arrest illegal immigrant, Immigration and Custom Enforcement, as the name suggest, have the jurisdiction on immigrant issue in the US. Of course they can arrest illegal immigrant without court approval. Why a police officer can arrest bank robber without court approval...??

I see the hong kong protesters are too violent by breaking the laws more than any protest in the world. In the US, if protesters go beyond the designated or lawful areas or causing damage any property, they will be arrested and prosecuted. In Hong Kong, the protesters think they are kings, they demand independent investigation into something else, but not any investigation into how violent they are, how much properties damage they need to paid, they are still talking like they are right.

Yes, the protestor is indeed go over the line, that I agree with you. 

Most of these protestor I would say is use the chance to have their own gain. 



Mista said:


> Wait, China doesn't practice 'innocent until proven guilty'?



This is not a simple answer. In short, it is, China did not presume you innocent before a trial, but they did not presume you guilt either 

Chinese Criminal System is very different than anywhere in the world, they inherit form Confucius idea and also grassroot idea stem form Soviet and Communism rules.

If you have watch the TV Series "Chernobyl" you would probably have some idea how Soviet System works, China is like that. 

Chinese system is closer to the Roman Civil Law (not the Civil Law we have dealing with business/civil matter) Roman Civil Law is like a open court law system, which you can probably imagine which is basically a panel of people who ask you question and determine whether or not you are guilty or not. 

What differ than Western Legal System is that China court is very engaging, everyone, from the judge (or I should say the panel of judges), to jurors, to prosecutor and defence lawyer can ask question during the court session. And guilt is determined by the panel, and so does the sentencing. Juror no longer just listen to the court case and rule whether or not the person is guilty, they are in the trial. 

And the court system is different too, when we are on trial in the west, it is the prosecution who need to make the case, which mean it is the sole responsibility for the prosecution to prove the person is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. In China, Prosecution also need to prove their case, however, the defence would need to prove their innocent as well by either provide evidence that point to not guilty or challenge evidence that point to guilty. And by the end of the presentation, the judging panel will see whether the person is guilty or is innocent base on the argument provided by both side. 

So, yes, you start as innocent if you are in Hong Kong Court System, but you start as neutral when you are in China Court System.

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## Mista

KungFuLee said:


> What is wrong with SB proposed first? are SB not formed by humans? Do you think only proposing by protesters first is correct? Do you think only proposing by UK first is correct? the bill have not become law yet. How do you see it causing harm than benefit? Are you god? so you can see thing ahead of time or just base upon your hyper-assumption?
> 
> I cannot be sure where you are from since you don't have a flag display, in Hong Kong, the governmental power are separated into three branch. Legislative Power, Executive Power and Judiciary Power, each power was oversee by a single department. Legislative Council (LegCo), Executive Council (ExeCo) and Security Bureau (SB)
> 
> What's wrong with SB lodging amendment is to the same tune as a Police Officer making up law as they go enforce it. Say for example, a Police can stop you for no reason and arrest you, and then the police officer can seek amendment to arrest you, even if you did not do anything wrong. And law amendment can be applied retrospectively, so if SB have the right to propose law, they can applies to the population to a time even before said law is passed. Which will give more than enough power for SB to turn into Fascist Organisation, as if the power of policing in Hong Kong is not enough already.
> 
> If you don't live in Hong Kong, chances are you won't understand how this is a bad thing,
> 
> Most protesters are chanting western democracy, so now let look into the US treaty agreement with Cananda in case of Meng Wanzhou for example, they didn't need court decision, they just need DOJ or some department's decision. another case, ICE can arrest illegal immigrants without court approval. there is nothing right or wrong with these. but violent and extremist liberals will be afraid of these.
> 
> US detain Meng is another issue, those are from Extradition Treaty between US and Canada, and if I remember correctly Meng is still appealing the extradition.
> 
> The Extradition Amendment Bill is NOT an extradition agreement, it instead wrote a special clause (3A) into the existing Extradition Order called FOO, the added clause, the "Special Surrender Arrangement" is a point to point, case by case special arrangement that, as stated by the Hong Kong Government Official news, is separated and distinct as with other continual extradition agreement, and it's outside the Hong Kong court system and it's conclusively lies with Chief Executive.
> 
> If you have to use Meng as an example, if Canada have this "Special Surrender Arrangement" that Hong Kong is proposing, As long as Trudeau gives an okay and giving the proper certification, Meng would be extradited to the US immediately without even going thru the Canadian court, then Meng would already be in US federal prison instead of on bail in Canada. Since we all know Canada is a US Lackey and well...
> 
> ICE can of course arrest illegal immigrant, Immigration and Custom Enforcement, as the name suggest, have the jurisdiction on immigrant issue in the US. Of course they can arrest illegal immigrant without court approval. Why a police officer can arrest bank robber without court approval...??
> 
> I see the hong kong protesters are too violent by breaking the laws more than any protest in the world. In the US, if protesters go beyond the designated or lawful areas or causing damage any property, they will be arrested and prosecuted. In Hong Kong, the protesters think they are kings, they demand independent investigation into something else, but not any investigation into how violent they are, how much properties damage they need to paid, they are still talking like they are right.
> 
> Yes, the protestor is indeed go over the line, that I agree with you.
> 
> Most of these protestor I would say is use the chance to have their own gain.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a simple answer. In short, it is, China did not presume you innocent before a trial, but they did not presume you guilt either
> 
> Chinese Criminal System is very different than anywhere in the world, they inherit form Confucius idea and also grassroot idea stem form Soviet and Communism rules.
> 
> If you have watch the TV Series "Chernobyl" you would probably have some idea how Soviet System works, China is like that.
> 
> Chinese system is closer to the Roman Civil Law (not the Civil Law we have dealing with business/civil matter) Roman Civil Law is like a open court law system, which you can probably imagine which is basically a panel of people who ask you question and determine whether or not you are guilty or not.
> 
> What differ than Western Legal System is that China court is very engaging, everyone, from the judge (or I should say the panel of judges), to jurors, to prosecutor and defence lawyer can ask question during the court session. And guilt is determined by the panel, and so does the sentencing. Juror no longer just listen to the court case and rule whether or not the person is guilty, they are in the trial.
> 
> And the court system is different too, when we are on trial in the west, it is the prosecution who need to make the case, which mean it is the sole responsibility for the prosecution to prove the person is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. In China, Prosecution also need to prove their case, however, the defence would need to prove their innocent as well by either provide evidence that point to not guilty or challenge evidence that point to guilty. And by the end of the presentation, the judging panel will see whether the person is guilty or is innocent base on the argument provided by both side.
> 
> So, yes, you start as innocent if you are in Hong Kong Court System, but you start as neutral when you are in China Court System.



I see, that makes a awful lot of difference in the legal system. Thanks for writing such a long post.


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## obj 705A

eldarlmari said:


> I must say the MI6 did a really good job.


you give too much credit to western inteligence agencies, you dont need the MI6 to do much if Jack Ma's SCMP still promotes China hate and spreading articles that demonize Beijing and describe Britain as heaven on earth.

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## Rasengan

@KungFuLee I have enjoyed reading some of your recent posts. Thank you, on shedding light on the legal aspect of this controversial bill. I don't mind people protesting but when they use violence as a means to an end then the country itself becomes a banana republic.

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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> What's wrong with SB lodging amendment is to the same tune as a Police Officer making up law as they go enforce it. Say for example, a Police can stop you for no reason and arrest you, and then the police officer can seek amendment to arrest you, even if you did not do anything wrong. And law amendment can be applied retrospectively, so if SB have the right to propose law, they can applies to the population to a time even before said law is passed. Which will give more than enough power for SB to turn into Fascist Organisation, as if the power of policing in Hong Kong is not enough already.


One of the basics of human right is that everyone has right to express ideas as long as that idea is proper, in this case called to propose. That says SB propose the bill does not mean SB make the law. There is nothing wrong with that. Why do you interpret it as if it was law already? That proposal will be circulate through legal process to become law.
In Meng case, they issued arrest without court approval, why don't you say Western democracy do not presume Meng or someone is innocent until court approve?

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## vostok

The same technologies like in Ukraine in 2014 - I suppose the same people from US and UK control this protests.

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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> One of the basics of human right is that everyone has right to express ideas as long as that idea is proper, in this case called to propose. That says SB propose the bill does not mean SB make the law. There is nothing wrong with that. Why do you interpret it as if it was law already? That proposal will be circulate through legal process to become law.



That is because in a weird sense, an bill amendment proposal is every bit as lethal as the bill itself. 
Because it is not the law, or bill or amendment, itself is the problem, the very notion that Security Bureau propose said bill is. 

I am not saying SB should not speak up about what they think should change, that's absurd because no system is perfect, changes is one part of the political system move to perfection. However, talk about changes or ask Legco to change law and actually put thru a bill to change the current law is 2 different things. 

As I have explained before, Hong Kong Government works on the 3 pillars system, Legislative, Executive and Judiciary, and all 3 branches check and balance each other, and they have to function the way they were design to.

Basic Law give the right to legislate to LegCo, which mean it granted power to propose and defeat any new law or bill to amend the government, and if SB started to propose law, then it will "Encroach" into Legco Power. Which again, as powerful SB is today, if they get more power (eg, power to amend law) it will destroy the check and balance system. And Hong Konger generally don't like that. 



Rasengan said:


> @KungFuLee I have enjoyed reading some of your recent posts. Thank you, on shedding light on the legal aspect of this controversial bill. I don't mind people protesting but when they use violence as a means to an end then the country itself becomes a banana republic.



Thanks you

Well, as I point out in previous post, most protestor have their own agenda, some want to change the bill, some just want to do bad things to the society. 

I guess it is a 2 ways street, a bad law (or bad amendment, or whatever) did not give the right for people to riot, however, the reverse is also true, just because people riot does not mean that law is not rotten. 

What I try to say here is we need to balance the act, the government need to withdraw the bill, then there will not no more excuse for the rioter. On the other hand, the government should prosecute those who deserved to full extend, but not use this riot to for its own agenda. 

Only then, I think we can mend the fence.

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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> That is because in a weird sense, an bill amendment proposal is every bit as lethal as the bill itself.
> Because it is not the law, or bill or amendment, itself is the problem, the very notion that Security Bureau propose said bill is.
> 
> I am not saying SB should not speak up about what they think should change, that's absurd because no system is perfect, changes is one part of the political system move to perfection. However, talk about changes or ask Legco to change law and actually put thru a bill to change the current law is 2 different things.
> 
> As I have explained before, Hong Kong Government works on the 3 pillars system, Legislative, Executive and Judiciary, and all 3 branches check and balance each other, and they have to function the way they were design to.
> 
> Basic Law give the right to legislate to LegCo, which mean it granted power to propose and defeat any new law or bill to amend the government, and if SB started to propose law, then it will "Encroach" into Legco Power. Which again, as powerful SB is today, if they get more power (eg, power to amend law) it will destroy the check and balance system. And Hong Konger generally don't like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks you
> 
> Well, as I point out in previous post, most protestor have their own agenda, some want to change the bill, some just want to do bad things to the society.
> 
> I guess it is a 2 ways street, a bad law (or bad amendment, or whatever) did not give the right for people to riot, however, the reverse is also true, just because people riot does not mean that law is not rotten.
> 
> What I try to say here is we need to balance the act, the government need to withdraw the bill, then there will not no more excuse for the rioter. On the other hand, the government should prosecute those who deserved to full extend, but not use this riot to for its own agenda.
> 
> Only then, I think we can mend the fence.


SB just propose, SB didn't strip away Legco power.
The SB don't make any law, how can you say they are powerful? And as long as they are right, what wrong with that power?

Moreover, Legco are not gods, they have expertise and knowledge limitation. They need proposal from someone with expertise in that field. In the US, the Congress and Senate have committees and some subcommittees for specific fields. Example, to pass internet laws, they will work with some committee and fcc. In hongkong case, SB is pretty much the same with different name.

And earlier, in Meng case, when Canada admin issued arrest without court approval. why don't you see that Western democracy do not presume Meng or someone is innocent until the Court approved so?

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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> The SB don't make any law, how can you say they are powerful? And as long as they are right, what wrong with that power?
> 
> And earlier, in Meng case, when Canada admin issued arrest without court approval. why don't you see that Western democracy do not presume Meng or someone is innocent until the Court approved so?



The SB don't make any law, how can you say they are powerful? And as long as they are right, what wrong with that power?

SB enforces law, which make them probably the most powerful of all 3 branches. Do bear in mind Hong Kong does not have a military, so Police/Law Enforcement would have been the next things that wield most power. You don't start a coup with the people in LegCo, they will probably get mow down in seconds

And you cannot say "as long as they are right" what if they are wrong or someone within SB abuses his/her power? You cannot allow anyone and anything just "as long as they are right" You don't get to choose in law. Because in law, you either have them, or don't. That is where the check and balance system come from, so not a single branch can overpower the other.

And earlier, in Meng case, when Canada admin issued arrest without court approval. why don't you see that Western democracy do not presume Meng or someone is innocent until the Court approved so?

I think it's quite clear that you do not know a lot in Law. You first say why ICE can arrest "illegal" immigrant without court approval. Now you say why Canada can detain Meng without Court Approval.

The very basic answer is, you do not need court approval to detain anyone.

Say for example, if you steal a chocolate bar in a supermarket. The clerk in a supermarket call the police, the police then come arrest or detain you. Do you think the policeman come to arrest you before he have "Court Approval"?

Every Police Force in the world have granted power of arrest to them, either it was written in the countries' law or was granted by the justice system. That is the reason Hong Kong Police carry a "Warrant" card, which mean they are warranted to arrest people (same concept as an arrest warrant)

Police does not need court approval to arrest/detain anyone, in fact, there are only one instant where an arrest warrant is issued is by skipping court, and then the court will issue an arrest warrant to arrest the person who skip court. That is done because, strangely, court usually do not have the right to arrest or detain people, in a western system, court is independent from Judiciary branch to maintain its own integrity.

A warrant, or approval is only seek when an authority is about to violate the person's civil right/constitution right, depends on where you are. And quite frankly, you have the right to remain science, you have the right not to allow Police to come to your home, which mean if the court want to make you talk, they need to issue a subpoena/affidavit, and if the Police need to search your home, they will need a search warrant. But you do not have the right not to be detained by authority.

In the UK or most common law system, police have the power to detain you for the maximum of 48 hours, and the prosecution will use that time to decided whether or not to charge you, thus making an arrest. Police cannot detain you for more than 48 hours, but they can detain you without a warrant for that period of time.

As I said Meng case if different, I can go into more detail with you, but I am not sure you actaully do understand the different between surrendering a person and extradite a person.

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## Dai Toruko

Hong Kong is a part of China. But what confuses many is that this city has its own laws as well as its own political and social system. That is supposed to end in 2047, the year when China should completely take over the city. So, what is the deal with Hong Kong?


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## Hamartia Antidote

KungFuLee said:


> And the court system is different too, when we are on trial in the west, it is the prosecution who need to make the case, which mean it is the sole responsibility for the prosecution to prove the person is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. In China, Prosecution also need to prove their case, however, the defence would need to prove their innocent as well by either provide evidence that point to not guilty or challenge evidence that point to guilty.
> .



Well it depends upon the country of course but the reason the onus is on the prosecution is because it can be hard to defend yourself with a legitimate alibi. Here is an extreme example..I could get arrested tomorrow and charged with shooting President Reagan back in 1981. How am I supposed to defend against that? What witnesses could I provide that can place me somewhere else on that day? In fact why should I even have to pay anybody to build a defence for me? Theoretically I should be able to sit with my arms folded in court shaking my head. The prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I did something. If they provide some witnesses...I’m allowed to grill them on the stand for as long as I want without me even taking the stand myself...and they have to give the witness and evidence list before the trial..so no surprise stuff.


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## Rasengan

KungFuLee said:


> Thanks you
> 
> Well, as I point out in previous post, most protestor have their own agenda, some want to change the bill, some just want to do bad things to the society.
> 
> I guess it is a 2 ways street, a bad law (or bad amendment, or whatever) did not give the right for people to riot, however, the reverse is also true, just because people riot does not mean that law is not rotten.
> 
> What I try to say here is we need to balance the act, the government need to withdraw the bill, then there will not no more excuse for the rioter. On the other hand, the government should prosecute those who deserved to full extend, but not use this riot to for its own agenda.
> 
> Only then, I think we can mend the fence.



I agree with your post. I spoke to another HK friend of mine today, and in his opinion, the situation will simmer down once the students go back into education which I believe is in September. In your opinion, will this protest continue with such intensity beyond September? Rule of law is important for a society to function. There has to be checks and balances. The HK Govt have planned this entire campaign wrong and the long term consequences will be bad.


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## gambit

obj 705A said:


> *you give too much credit to western inteligence agencies*, you dont need the MI6 to do much if Jack Ma's SCMP still promotes China hate and spreading articles that demonize Beijing and describe Britain as heaven on earth.


The more credit given to outsiders, the less personal responsibility one may feel one should take. It is like reading the daily horoscope. The more I feel my life is governed by mystical and ethereal forces, the less the onus on me to govern my life based upon personal decisions. In this respect, it is actually insulting to the Chinese that they are so easily manipulated by foreign intelligence operations.

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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...housands-rally-hong-kong-190811100536606.html

*Police fire tear gas as thousands once again rally in Hong Kong*

Hong Kong police have fired tear gas at demonstrators after petrol bombs exploded in the downtown bar district of Wan Chai as clashes during a tenth weekend of protests in the city intensified

Reuters News Agency on Sunday said its reporters in Wan Chai saw two petrol bombs thrown, setting small fires on the streets, while tear gas volleys and advancing riot police sent some protesters fleeing.

Demonstrators are demanding the resignation of the city's leader Carrie Lam, democratic elections, the release of those arrested in earlier protests, and an investigation into police use of force against the protesters.

Banners at the rally in Victoria Park read "Give Hong Kong back to us" and "Withdraw the evil law," the latter a reference to an extradition bill that was the original spark for the protests.


The demonstrations have since morphed into a broader bid to reverse a slide in democratic freedoms in the city.

Protesters took over streets in two parts of the Asian financial hub, blocking traffic and setting up another night of likely showdowns with riot police as they chanted: "Liberate Hong Kong, revolution of our time."

They hurled bricks at officers and ignored warnings to leave the Sham Shui Po area before tear gas was deployed, police said, calling the march an "unauthorised assembly."

Protesters used metal fencing and plastic ties to construct makeshift barricades and block the road near the local police station, shining blue lasers at the building as officers held up a flag warning the crowd to disperse.

Nearby, protesters wearing gas masks gathered outside a police station in Cheung Sha Wan, as officers wearing protective gear looked down at them from a tall wall around the station.

Across Victoria Harbour, a large group of mostly young protesters marched down the middle of Hennessey Road, a main shopping drag in the Causeway Bay area, as a rally was held in nearby Victoria Park.

Many wore face masks to shield their identities, and a few had helmets. Others just carried backpacks over the black T-shirts that have become their uniform.

"We hope the world knows that Hong Kong is not the Hong Kong it used to be," said one protester, Louisa Ho. "China is doing more and more to pressure Hong Kong, its people and its organisations."

Following a rally at the centrally located Victoria Park, protesters fanned out across the city, often playing a cat-and-mouse game with police.

At the same time, a more subdued sit-in protest at the Hong Kong airport stretched into its third day.

"They have this philosophy here ... It's actually based on Bruce Lee, the legend ... of kung fu, who had this philosophy of 'be water'," Al Jazeera's Rob McBride said while reporting from Hong Kong

"It basically means that water at times can be strong. It can be a torrent, at other times it can be soft. It's difficult to grasp hold of, it changes, it morphs. That's what they're sort of basing their tactics on."


While riot police fired tear gas and arrested 16 people, the two sides avoided the lengthy pitched battles that have been seen in recent weeks.

"Our aim is no injuries, no bleeding and not getting arrested," said a 17-year-old student protester who gave his family name as Chan.

The protest movement has been seen as the biggest threat to Beijing's rule of the semi-autonomous Chinese city since its handover from the British in 1997.

The city's Beijing-appointed leader Lam has ruled out granting the protesters' demands.

On Saturday, she addressed students at Hong Kong army cadets camp and warned that the city was "suffering from external worries and internal perils".

"Every person who cherishes Hong Kong and loves peace should work hard together and safeguard our beautiful home."

But the protesters insist they have no plans to back down.


"There is no chance of retreating, and as a Hong Konger, this is the last hope we see of being able to achieve democracy," said a 20-year-old protester who gave his last name as Lam.


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## KungFuLee

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Well it depends upon the country of course but the reason the onus is on the prosecution is because it can be hard to defend yourself with a legitimate alibi. Here is an extreme example..I could get arrested tomorrow and charged with shooting President Reagan back in 1981. How am I supposed to defend against that? What witnesses could I provide that can place me somewhere else on that day? In fact why should I even have to pay anybody to build a defence for me? Theoretically I should be able to sit with my arms folded in court shaking my head. The prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I did something. If they provide some witnesses...I’m allowed to grill them on the stand for as long as I want without me even taking the stand myself...and they have to give the witness and evidence list before the trial..so no surprise stuff.



I should say now, I am not a lawyer, 4 years of law school means nothing unless I take that Bar exam, so I am not going to be as inform on such issue as other practice lawyer.

The onus came from innocent before proven guilty, which make most core value of Common Law, if you are assumed innocents, then it would be the responsibility or duty of the Public Prosecution side to proof one's guilt. 

On the other hand, Chinese court runs on "Merit" system, which is base upon Confucius teaching, but at the same time, it have the same "Tribunal" like soviet court. I am not going to say which system is better, as they are completely different, hence they are not compatible (noted, it is because the two system is so different, China is excluded in the FOO) You defence strategy is either you choose to try to prove you did not do it by naming X, Y, Z evidence, or try to prove the Prosecution did not have a case by attacking their A, B, C evidence. 

In your example, while it is hard for you to show proof that you did not shoot Reagan some 30 years ago. It would be equally if not harder for the prosecution to show proof that you did, so this kind of balance out. Given if evidence are gathered with integrity and the judge is not biased.



Rasengan said:


> I agree with your post. I spoke to another HK friend of mine today, and in his opinion, the situation will simmer down once the students go back into education which I believe is in September. In your opinion, will this protest continue with such intensity beyond September? Rule of law is important for a society to function. There has to be checks and balances. The HK Govt have planned this entire campaign wrong and the long term consequences will be bad.



It depends on whether or not what I heard is true, and what I heard is, both side hire thug to protest. 

It is a bit more than the "Student Issue" we all first think of, it is more widespread now, for better or worse, which mean stuff is not going to be right until someone do something. And as I pointed out before, it should be the government who should do something first by withdrawing the bill and take away the bullet on the protestor gun.

School mean nothing, as my brother told me on the phone, he did not go back to work for 9 days because it is simply unsafe to travel, he live in Tune Mun near Yuen Long and have to travel all the way to Tseung Kwan O. People will stop at nothing If they want to do bad things. And unless something changes in the equation, I can see this riot/protest drag on.

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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> The SB don't make any law, how can you say they are powerful? And as long as they are right, what wrong with that power?
> 
> SB enforces law, which make them probably the most powerful of all 3 branches. Do bear in mind Hong Kong does not have a military, so Police/Law Enforcement would have been the next things that wield most power. You don't start a coup with the people in LegCo, they will probably get mow down in seconds
> 
> And you cannot say "as long as they are right" what if they are wrong or someone within SB abuses his/her power? You cannot allow anyone and anything just "as long as they are right" You don't get to choose in law. Because in law, you either have them, or don't. That is where the check and balance system come from, so not a single branch can overpower the other.
> 
> And earlier, in Meng case, when Canada admin issued arrest without court approval. why don't you see that Western democracy do not presume Meng or someone is innocent until the Court approved so?
> 
> I think it's quite clear that you do not know a lot in Law. You first say why ICE can arrest "illegal" immigrant without court approval. Now you say why Canada can detain Meng without Court Approval.
> 
> The very basic answer is, you do not need court approval to detain anyone.


SB enforce laws does not mean they make laws and does not mean they cannot make proposal. I mean the power that they can make proposal. When you said "what if they are wrong or someone within SB abuses his/her", I think you are trying to interpret "as long as they are right" into "as long as they have power" so you can demonize SB as if they already made law and abused power. there is no guarantee all 3 branches can make all things "right".

It is just because there is China factor then all the traitors are scared of and demonize the bill. if the bill was extradition to UK or US then they would not say anything. 

Some traitors worship western democracy and use the "presumed innocent until proven guilty" mantra as an excuse to against the bill. Meng case is just show that there is arrest and extradition in western democracy and the Hong Kong extradition bill is just for the same job.

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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> SB enforce laws does not mean they make laws and does not mean they cannot make proposal. I mean the power that they can make proposal. When you said "what if they are wrong or someone within SB abuses his/her", I think you are trying to interpret "as long as they are right" into "as long as they have power" so you can demonize SB as if they already made law and abused power. there is no guarantee all 3 branches can make all things "right".
> 
> It is just because there is China factor then all the traitors are scared of and demonize the bill. if the bill was extradition to UK or US then they would not say anything.
> 
> Some traitors worship western democracy and use the "presumed innocent until proven guilty" mantra as an excuse to against the bill. Meng case is just show that there is arrest and extradition in western democracy and the Hong Kong extradition bill is just for the same job.



SB enforce laws does not mean they make laws and does not mean they cannot make proposal. I mean the power that they can make proposal. When you said "what if they are wrong or someone within SB abuses his/her", I think you are trying to interpret "as long as they are right" into "as long as they have power" so you can demonize SB as if they already made law and abused power. there is no guarantee all 3 branches can make all things "right".

SB can't proposal a change to the law, that is the whole point, that is the job for LegCo. . Not SB.

Proposing law IS making new law. I don't understand why you fail to see that. As I said, the 3 separate entity is the foundation of Hong Kong governing system, if you do not live or lived in Hong Kong, you will not understand.

The only thing I do agree with you in this paragraph is that "There are no guarantee on all 3 branches can make everything right" And that is the exact reason why the entities to Proposal Law, Executive Law and Enforce Law is separate, because it make sure everyone have its own handle over others.

I just can't understand why you said that yet, you think SB, which have the power to enforce law is ok to also have the power to propose law.

It is just because there is China factor then all the traitors are scared of and demonize the bill. if the bill was extradition to UK or US then they would not say anything. 

Please read the bill again, the amendment does not just applies to China, it applies to every country in or out of the FOO. Which mean US and UK are included.

Some traitors worship western democracy and use the "presumed innocent until proven guilty" mantra as an excuse to against the bill. Meng case is just show that there is arrest and extradition in western democracy and the Hong Kong extradition bill is just for the same job.

It is not the same.....

Meng case was a classic extradition, which happens over thousand time between US and Canada, her right is covered by Canadian court and authority, and the fact is she is still on bail in Canada instead of handed over and serving time in the US means it is properly done. 

Special Surrender Arrangement is not an extradition, it execute conclusively on the action of Chief Executive. In law, we don't like the word "Conclusively" because you cannot argue the definition nor interpretation of an evidence, as that was absolute. 

If both cases are the same, Meng would now be in US Federal Prison awaiting trial... Is it that hard to see two case is very different? Or do you want me to go over the Treaty on Extradition Between the Government of Canada and the Government of the United States of America and explain to you point by point why Meng's arrest for extradition is a legal transaction?

https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=101323


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## ARMalik

HK was transferred to China in 1997. This is 22 year ago! I have to be honest here, *22-years is a long time *and unfortunately *China has been unsuccessful is kicking out *the trouble maker western spies from the HK system. What you see today is the West showing China that they still have a lot of influence in HK.

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## eldamar

Atually the current riot is no longer about the bill. It's simply an US-funded campaign to sow unstability using willing traitors in Hong Kong.

This politician said it himself:

_In his statement, Woo argued that protesters had already achieved their original aim of blocking the now-shelved extradition bill, suggesting they were now disguising the movement and fighting for other changes, such as political reform, that extended beyond the ambit of the Basic Law, the city’s mini-constitution.

“The extradition bill is now game over ... The current five demands are just some pretences to fight for what they failed to achieve in the ‘Occupy Central’ movement that go beyond what is permitted by the Basic Law,” he said.
_
*Why Hong Kong protesters view police as the enemy*
_The tycoon believed they were in fact attempts to steal power from the Central government, to change the Basic Law and the Beijing’s framework for political reform from August 2014 so “the opposition camp could wrest control of the Legislative Council”.

He called on protesters to quit and move on, warning that there would be no winners in the movement if they continued their radical behaviour._

CIA field agents doing their dirty thing:

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## Dai Toruko

Just hope its not going to be a second Tian an meng massacre like in 1989 where chinese soldiers opened fire on civilians like them killing hundreds. But maybe thats why they can protest now more freely. In 1989 there was no internet and smartphones. It was easy to remove it from history. Now the world sees everything.


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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> SB enforce laws does not mean they make laws and does not mean they cannot make proposal. I mean the power that they can make proposal. When you said "what if they are wrong or someone within SB abuses his/her", I think you are trying to interpret "as long as they are right" into "as long as they have power" so you can demonize SB as if they already made law and abused power. there is no guarantee all 3 branches can make all things "right".
> 
> SB can't proposal a change to the law, that is the whole point, that is the job for LegCo. . Not SB.
> 
> Proposing law IS making new law. I don't understand why you fail to see that. As I said, the 3 separate entity is the foundation of Hong Kong governing system, if you do not live or lived in Hong Kong, you will not understand.
> 
> The only thing I do agree with you in this paragraph is that "There are no guarantee on all 3 branches can make everything right" And that is the exact reason why the entities to Proposal Law, Executive Law and Enforce Law is separate, because it make sure everyone have its own handle over others.
> 
> I just can't understand why you said that yet, you think SB, which have the power to enforce law is ok to also have the power to propose law.
> 
> It is just because there is China factor then all the traitors are scared of and demonize the bill. if the bill was extradition to UK or US then they would not say anything.
> 
> Please read the bill again, the amendment does not just applies to China, it applies to every country in or out of the FOO. Which mean US and UK are included.
> 
> Some traitors worship western democracy and use the "presumed innocent until proven guilty" mantra as an excuse to against the bill. Meng case is just show that there is arrest and extradition in western democracy and the Hong Kong extradition bill is just for the same job.
> 
> It is not the same.....
> 
> Meng case was a classic extradition, which happens over thousand time between US and Canada, her right is covered by Canadian court and authority, and the fact is she is still on bail in Canada instead of handed over and serving time in the US means it is properly done.
> 
> Special Surrender Arrangement is not an extradition, it execute conclusively on the action of Chief Executive. In law, we don't like the word "Conclusively" because you cannot argue the definition nor interpretation of an evidence, as that was absolute.
> 
> If both cases are the same, Meng would now be in US Federal Prison awaiting trial... Is it that hard to see two case is very different? Or do you want me to go over the Treaty on Extradition Between the Government of Canada and the Government of the United States of America and explain to you point by point why Meng's arrest for extradition is a legal transaction?
> 
> https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=101323


Again, did you look in dictionary what the word "propose" mean? What "make" mean? How can you redefine "propose" is to "make" something?
And again, in Meng case the start point and the end point are just the same, so they are the same, although each country does it in their own path. Just like humans have different colors of skin but they are all human.

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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...ights-suspended-protests-190812082346420.html

*Hong Kong airport cancels Monday flights amid sit-in protest*
Authorities say they are suspending departing and arriving flights after thousands of protesters enter arrivals halls.


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## lcloo

Hamartia Antidote said:


> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...ights-suspended-protests-190812082346420.html
> 
> *Hong Kong airport cancels Monday flights amid sit-in protest*
> Authorities say they are suspending departing and arriving flights after thousands of protesters enter arrivals halls.


Economic loses began to be felt by foreign luxury brands, international companies, airlines and big couriers like FEDEX and DHL. Hong Kong is moving towards irrelevance.

People are flying direct to China Mainland instead of stop over in Hong Kong.

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## bolo

gambit said:


> The more credit given to outsiders, the less personal responsibility one may feel one should take. It is like reading the daily horoscope. The more I feel my life is governed by mystical and ethereal forces, the less the onus on me to govern my life based upon personal decisions. In this respect, it is actually insulting to the Chinese that they are so easily manipulated by foreign intelligence operations.


The myth that HK people has one of the highest IQ.



Hamartia Antidote said:


> https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...housands-rally-hong-kong-190811100536606.html
> 
> *Police fire tear gas as thousands once again rally in Hong Kong*
> 
> Hong Kong police have fired tear gas at demonstrators after petrol bombs exploded in the downtown bar district of Wan Chai as clashes during a tenth weekend of protests in the city intensified
> 
> Reuters News Agency on Sunday said its reporters in Wan Chai saw two petrol bombs thrown, setting small fires on the streets, while tear gas volleys and advancing riot police sent some protesters fleeing.
> 
> Demonstrators are demanding the resignation of the city's leader Carrie Lam, democratic elections, the release of those arrested in earlier protests, and an investigation into police use of force against the protesters.
> 
> Banners at the rally in Victoria Park read "Give Hong Kong back to us" and "Withdraw the evil law," the latter a reference to an extradition bill that was the original spark for the protests.
> 
> 
> The demonstrations have since morphed into a broader bid to reverse a slide in democratic freedoms in the city.
> 
> Protesters took over streets in two parts of the Asian financial hub, blocking traffic and setting up another night of likely showdowns with riot police as they chanted: "Liberate Hong Kong, revolution of our time."
> 
> They hurled bricks at officers and ignored warnings to leave the Sham Shui Po area before tear gas was deployed, police said, calling the march an "unauthorised assembly."
> 
> Protesters used metal fencing and plastic ties to construct makeshift barricades and block the road near the local police station, shining blue lasers at the building as officers held up a flag warning the crowd to disperse.
> 
> Nearby, protesters wearing gas masks gathered outside a police station in Cheung Sha Wan, as officers wearing protective gear looked down at them from a tall wall around the station.
> 
> Across Victoria Harbour, a large group of mostly young protesters marched down the middle of Hennessey Road, a main shopping drag in the Causeway Bay area, as a rally was held in nearby Victoria Park.
> 
> Many wore face masks to shield their identities, and a few had helmets. Others just carried backpacks over the black T-shirts that have become their uniform.
> 
> "We hope the world knows that Hong Kong is not the Hong Kong it used to be," said one protester, Louisa Ho. "China is doing more and more to pressure Hong Kong, its people and its organisations."
> 
> Following a rally at the centrally located Victoria Park, protesters fanned out across the city, often playing a cat-and-mouse game with police.
> 
> At the same time, a more subdued sit-in protest at the Hong Kong airport stretched into its third day.
> 
> "They have this philosophy here ... It's actually based on Bruce Lee, the legend ... of kung fu, who had this philosophy of 'be water'," Al Jazeera's Rob McBride said while reporting from Hong Kong
> 
> "It basically means that water at times can be strong. It can be a torrent, at other times it can be soft. It's difficult to grasp hold of, it changes, it morphs. That's what they're sort of basing their tactics on."
> 
> 
> While riot police fired tear gas and arrested 16 people, the two sides avoided the lengthy pitched battles that have been seen in recent weeks.
> 
> "Our aim is no injuries, no bleeding and not getting arrested," said a 17-year-old student protester who gave his family name as Chan.
> 
> The protest movement has been seen as the biggest threat to Beijing's rule of the semi-autonomous Chinese city since its handover from the British in 1997.
> 
> The city's Beijing-appointed leader Lam has ruled out granting the protesters' demands.
> 
> On Saturday, she addressed students at Hong Kong army cadets camp and warned that the city was "suffering from external worries and internal perils".
> 
> "Every person who cherishes Hong Kong and loves peace should work hard together and safeguard our beautiful home."
> 
> But the protesters insist they have no plans to back down.
> 
> 
> "There is no chance of retreating, and as a Hong Konger, this is the last hope we see of being able to achieve democracy," said a 20-year-old protester who gave his last name as Lam.


HK police tactic repeatedly firing tear gas is comical. It's like a kid playing video games where he hits only the A button.

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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> Again, did you look in dictionary what the word "propose" mean? What "make" mean? How can you redefine "propose" is to "make" something?
> And again, in Meng case the start point and the end point are just the same, so they are the same, although each country does it in their own path. Just like humans have different colors of skin but they are all human.



Do you even know how a law come into effect? Proposal for all intend and purpose, is to make law, especially in Hong Kong Legislature where the legislation is filled with Pro-Beijing sitter. In Hong Kong and in anywhere in the world, proposed law is seldom defeated, they can be repealed but they are seldom defeated.

On the other hand, the right to proposal law is different, a law most likely not get nominated if there are no backing. a bill is more likely to be defeated in proposal stage, than defeated in the reading stage. Especially so in Hong Kong for the aforementioned reason. 

As I said, it would have seems like you lack of knowledge in Hong Kong Politic and Law, actually do you even live or ever lived in Hong Kong?

Meng case is different, it does not really matter what you said, you have not even once challenge the definition of Extradition in Canada. You can of course believe what you want to believe, but that does not mean what you believe is true. 

I don't think this conversion can contribute more in the topic, so I am going to leave it as that.



lcloo said:


> Economic loses began to be felt by foreign luxury brands, international companies, airlines and big couriers like FEDEX and DHL. Hong Kong is moving towards irrelevance.
> 
> People are flying direct to China Mainland instead of stop over in Hong Kong.



I don't think flight stop over in Hong Kong anyway to begin with.

Hong Kong being a destination port, not a transit port like Singapore


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## lcloo

KungFuLee said:


> I don't think flight stop over in Hong Kong anyway to begin with.
> 
> Hong Kong being a destination port, not a transit port like Singapore



I used to take flight to Hong Kong whenever I go to Shenzhen. In those days, I flew 3 to 4 times a year, every time I stopped in Hong Kong and then take train or jet ferry to Shenzhen.
Almost all our foreign staff (Americans, Canadians, Malaysians) travel this way.

And on numerous occasions, I would take the ferry from Shenzhen to HK airport. A lot of people, mainly Taiwanese, travel this way, the ferry was always full.

May be the word "stop over" is a bad choice, but many of us would prefer HK than Shenzhen due to the frequency of flights, and of course the shopping as well.


----------



## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> Do you even know how a law come into effect? Proposal for all intend and purpose, is to make law, especially in Hong Kong Legislature where the legislation is filled with Pro-Beijing sitter. In Hong Kong and in anywhere in the world, proposed law is seldom defeated, they can be repealed but they are seldom defeated.
> 
> On the other hand, the right to proposal law is different, a law most likely not get nominated if there are no backing. a bill is more likely to be defeated in proposal stage, than defeated in the reading stage. Especially so in Hong Kong for the aforementioned reason.
> 
> As I said, it would have seems like you lack of knowledge in Hong Kong Politic and Law, actually do you even live or ever lived in Hong Kong?
> 
> Meng case is different, it does not really matter what you said, you have not even once challenge the definition of Extradition in Canada. You can of course believe what you want to believe, but that does not mean what you believe is true.
> 
> I don't think this conversion can contribute more in the topic, so I am going to leave it as that.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think flight stop over in Hong Kong anyway to begin with.
> 
> Hong Kong being a destination port, not a transit port like Singapore



Again "to propose" is to propose and "to make" is to make, they describe two different actions. You "say" something does not mean you "do" something. You said you understand law, how come the simple thing like this you don't understand?

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## KungFuLee

lcloo said:


> I used to take flight to Hong Kong whenever I go to Shenzhen. In those days, I flew 3 to 4 times a year, every time I stopped in Hong Kong and then take train or jet ferry to Shenzhen.
> Almost all our foreign staff (Americans, Canadians, Malaysians) travel this way.
> 
> And on numerous occasions, I would take the ferry from Shenzhen to HK airport. A lot of people, mainly Taiwanese, travel this way, the ferry was always full.
> 
> May be the word "stop over" is a bad choice, but many of us would prefer HK than Shenzhen due to the frequency of flights, and of course the shopping as well.



If I want to travel from Sydney to Shenzhen, there are only 2 stop over I can take, either Singapore or KL, I won't probably stop at Hong Kong, and if I do stop at Hong Kong, I will take a train or just drive to Shenzhen.

What you are referring to is further travel, which you actually visit multiple place during you trip and Hong Kong being one of the destination.

But yes, like you say, Hong Kong have lost quite a lot of tourist because of the riot. Which is bad



grandmaster said:


> Again "to propose" is to propose and "to make" is to make, they describe two different actions. You "say" something does not mean you "do" something. You said you understand law, how come the simple thing like this you don't understand?



So , everything I just type went over your head, isn't it?

I just have one question though

Do you live in Hong Kong? Or know how Hong Kong Politics works? If not, which I guess it is most likely, how do you know how a bill is being introduce in Hong Kong?

And by judging the few post we have been exchanging, I do know more law than you and that is a fact, and if you are still wondering why "to propose" is the same as "to make" in Hong Kong or probably most western legal system. Please do ask other people from Hong Kong as I am tired of answering the same thing over and over again. My answer is in previous posts, please try to read it again and this time, try not to let it went straight over your head and try to digest what I meant.

Thank You


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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> If I want to travel from Sydney to Shenzhen, there are only 2 stop over I can take, either Singapore or KL, I won't probably stop at Hong Kong, and if I do stop at Hong Kong, I will take a train or just drive to Shenzhen.
> 
> What you are referring to is further travel, which you actually visit multiple place during you trip and Hong Kong being one of the destination.
> 
> But yes, like you say, Hong Kong have lost quite a lot of tourist because of the riot. Which is bad
> 
> 
> 
> So , everything I just type went over your head, isn't it?
> 
> I just have one question though
> 
> Do you live in Hong Kong? Or know how Hong Kong Politics works? If not, which I guess it is most likely, how do you know how a bill is being introduce in Hong Kong?
> 
> And by judging the few post we have been exchanging, I do know more law than you and that is a fact, and if you are still wondering why "to propose" is the same as "to make" in Hong Kong or probably most western legal system. Please do ask other people from Hong Kong as I am tired of answering the same thing over and over again. My answer is in previous posts, please try to read it again and this time, try not to let it went straight over your head and try to digest what I meant.
> 
> Thank You


If you don't understand what is the difference between "to propose" and to "to make", how can I trust your understanding of law? How can I trust you are not biased.

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## hiseen



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## Dai Toruko

*



*
Chinese dissident artist Ai Weiwei says US President Trump's stance on Hong Kong “will cost more lives”


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## the_messenger

The protesters are learning, they are now consolidating their position in an airport departure hall, a very difficult place for clearance operation.
However, their number is too small now compared to 2 months ago.


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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161272442293239815

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## Viet

In the news: 12,000 men of the security forces with armor verhicles are seen rolling towards HK.

Something is going on. Can’t recognize from the flash vid if they are from the PLA?


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## Dai Toruko

Viet said:


> In the news: 12,000 men of the security forces with armor verhicles are seen rolling towards HK.
> 
> Something is going on. Can’t recognize from the flash vid if they are from the PLA?



Looks like Hong Kong is on the brink of civil war.


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## Viet

Dai Toruko said:


> Looks like Hong Kong is on the brink of civil war.


The HKer can seek refugee status in Vietnam. There is a stat somewhere: the HKer have the world’s highest IQ. We can need them


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## bolo

Viet said:


> In the news: 12,000 men of the security forces with armor verhicles are seen rolling towards HK.
> 
> Something is going on. Can’t recognize from the flash vid if they are from the PLA?


It's very strange for Chinese troops to enter Chinese land. Reminds me the other day on the highway i saw a fleet of Canadian armored vehicles heading towards another Canadian city.

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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161290559387918338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161298604155273216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161298784493506562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161277696342659072

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## nang2

The peaceful environment on which Hong Kong's prosperity depends was never earned by people in Hong Kong. It was created and forced upon by England and later China. They don't appreciate it. Let them lose it so they may learn how to appreciate it.

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## Mista

The way she deflected the question from Reuters answers the question itself.


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## Viet

Mista said:


> The way she deflected the question from Reuters answers the question itself.


It’s clear she can’t withdraw the bill without Beijing’s consent.


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## Mista

Viet said:


> It’s clear she can’t withdraw the bill without Beijing’s consent.



The ball isn't in her court and she can't make decisions by herself. Frankly her inaction and ambiguity is to be blame for the situation now. She can only be passive and monitor the protests while the police is tanking all the insults and abuse by the public. I'm sure there are some police who are pissed by her lack of leadership as well. 

If the police, just one group of them, decides to join the other side, well, she will have to call in the PLA and things will get very ugly.


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## Viet

bolo said:


> It's very strange for Chinese troops to enter Chinese land. Reminds me the other day on the highway i saw a fleet of Canadian armored vehicles heading towards another Canadian city.


Neither does it make any noise in Germany when US tanks are seen on Autobahns. China is a different story she has a bad reputation.


Mista said:


> The ball isn't in her court and she can't make decisions by herself. Frankly her inaction and ambiguity is to be blame for the situation now. She can only be passive and monitor the protests while the police is tanking all the insults and abuse by the public. I'm sure there are some police who are pissed by her lack of leadership as well.
> 
> If the police, just one group of them, decides to join the other side, well, she will have to call in the PLA and things will get very ugly.


calling in the PLA will be unprecedented. She should talk to Beijing to find a way out. Right now other than withdrawing the bill is not acceptable for protesters. I think sometimes you should understand it is not the time to go thru a wall. It is not a shame to withdraw what can’t be enforced.

Vietnam government has recently withdrawn a bill on special economic zone after a massive protest.

https://www.chinadialogue.net/artic...es-Vietnam-to-back-down-on-new-economic-zones


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## kankan326

Mista said:


> The ball isn't in her court and she can't make decisions by herself. Frankly her inaction and ambiguity is to be blame for the situation now. She can only be passive and monitor the protests while the police is tanking all the insults and abuse by the public. I'm sure there are some police who are pissed by her lack of leadership as well.
> 
> If the police, just one group of them, decides to join the other side, well, she will have to call in the PLA and things will get very ugly.


Talk is easy. Don't forget US is closely watching every move of HK government. US propaganda machine is all refuelled waiting for something to happen to defame China. She keeps low profile to avoid giving US any pretext. These traitors are fearless not because they are brave. Their boss gives them courage.

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## Mista

Viet said:


> Neither does it make any noise in Germany when US tanks are seen on Autobahns. China is a different story she has a bad reputation.
> 
> calling in the PLA will be unprecedented. She should talk to Beijing to find a way out. Right now other than withdrawing the bill is not acceptable for protesters. I think sometimes you should understand it is not the time to go thru a wall. It is not a shame to withdraw what can’t be enforced.
> 
> Vietnam government has recently withdrawn a bill on special economic zone after a massive protest.
> 
> https://www.chinadialogue.net/artic...es-Vietnam-to-back-down-on-new-economic-zones



I don't think the PLA is likely to be called because of various reasons but if this keeps on escalating and she remains passive and unwilling to address the issue directly, who knows?


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## obj 705A

kankan326 said:


> US propaganda machine is all refuelled waiting for something to happen to defame China. She keeps low profile to avoid giving US any pretext.


do you mean that China is so weak that they have to compromise on their own internal security just to avoid CNN talking bad about them?
if that is true (and I sure hope it isn't) then that is just pathetic, if some one disturbs the peace in your country then what you have to do is jail him for 10 years minimum, you dont wait for CNN & Fox news to give the green light to defend your country.

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## Götterdämmerung

Mista said:


> The ball isn't in her court and she can't make decisions by herself. Frankly her inaction and ambiguity is to be blame for the situation now. She can only be passive and monitor the protests while the police is tanking all the insults and abuse by the public. I'm sure there are some police who are pissed by her lack of leadership as well.
> 
> If the police, just one group of them, decides to join the other side, well, she will have to call in the PLA and things will get very ugly.



Even people in Germany are more knowledgable than this self-declared China expert. LOL

https://www.heise.de/forum/Telepoli...vermehrte-Polizeigewalt/forum-431903/comment/

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## kankan326

obj 705A said:


> do you mean that China is so weak that they have to compromise on their own internal security just to avoid CNN talking bad about them?
> if that is true (and I sure hope it isn't) then that is just pathetic, if some one disturbs the peace in your country then what you have to do is jail him for 10 years minimum, you dont wait for CNN & Fox news to give the green light to defend your country.


No. China is not afraid of US itself. China doesn't want relationship with other countries who still believe in democracy and human right shit(EU, Japan and so on) to be affected by HK affairs. Especially during the China-US trade war time.

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## Nan Yang

This Australian man makes these protester look like kids.

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## lcloo

Peaceful protestors they are no more, violence rioters have taken over. Remind me of the movie Zombie, except these are living zombie moving in frenzy.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1160185670888914945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161288208346431489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161313924014174208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161320803935240193

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## Viet

Mista said:


> I don't think the PLA is likely to be called because of various reasons but if this keeps on escalating and she remains passive and unwilling to address the issue directly, who knows?


It’s certain that the decision whether or not the PLA will be callled in will be made by Xi Jingping. He is the first commander of the armed forces. He is the one that will make the final decision.

From outsiders some guess, It depends on whom he listens to? Will Xi listen to the group of hardliners centered in the person of Wei Fenghe, the defense minister. Or Xi will listen to the people of Wang Yi, the foreign minister, the moderate group, that seek a balance.

There is another factor: Xi can fear he will lose face if backing down.

The last factor is the most unknown because it’s typical chinese.

As for Carrie, she has boxed herself into a corner there is no return.


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## 帅的一匹

Viet said:


> In the news: 12,000 men of the security forces with armor verhicles are seen rolling towards HK.
> 
> Something is going on. Can’t recognize from the flash vid if they are from the PLA?


Yes, so what? Those are para military force.

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## 帅的一匹

Nan Yang said:


> This Australian man makes these protester look like kids.


From the conversation you can find out that those mobs were trained. As the Australian in the clip questioned the mob who is corrupting Hongkong, the mob tried to get away with that query by saying the Australian passenger was upset because his travel been influenced by the protest.



Viet said:


> It’s certain that the decision whether or not the PLA will be callled in will be made by Xi Jingping. He is the first commander of the armed forces. He is the one that will make the final decision.
> 
> From outsiders some guess, It depends on whom he listens to? Will Xi listen to the group of hardliners centered in the person of Wei Fenghe, the defense minister. Or Xi will listen to the people of Wang Yi, the foreign minister, the moderate group, that seek a balance.
> 
> There is another factor: Xi can fear he will lose face if backing down.
> 
> The last factor is the most unknown because it’s typical chinese.
> 
> As for Carrie, she has boxed herself into a corner there is no return.


Carrie Lam is the hero of 1.4 billions Chinese people, who have no return are those mobs.

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## eldamar

Warzone at the airport:

https://www.scmp.com/video/hong-kon...nprecedented-violence-hong-kong-airport-after

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## Galactic Penguin SST

Viet said:


> It’s certain that the decision whether or not the PLA will be callled in will be made by Xi Jingping. He is the first commander of the armed forces. He is the one that will make the final decision.
> 
> From outsiders some guess.



Since the protestors-rioters have been officially branded "terrorists", and that all evidences point at the build up of tremendous PLA forces reinforcement in Shenzhen, the Rubicon has been crossed, and there is no return possible. 

Xi Jingping is a great leader, known in Asia as the Julius Caesar of the 21th century. He will strike swiftly and decisively. He can't loose.

Indeed, unlike the 4th June 1989 Tiananmen Square riots, also known as the Euromaidan of the East, 2019's China is too strong economically and technologically to be affected by any U.S.-european sanctions and bully.

Any sanctions against China would be self-defeating, only further hastening both the demise of the U.S.-europeans, and the rise of the Pax Sinica or the China Century.

As the first exporter of rare earth elements (REE), it is up to President Xi to order a ban on rare earth elements export that would sent the U.S. and Europe back technologically to the WWII era.

In today's world, no electronics, no microchips, no smartphones, no laptops, no stealth aircrafts, no satellites and missiles can be produced without REE.

Tesco, Carrefour, Walmart, and countless other western outlets could also be closed or boycotted overnight.

In 30 years, China has simply tamed the U.S. and Europeans. China has now the upper hand, just like Chairman *Kim Jong Un* has the upper hand when dealing with the U.S. and plays the Trump as *He* wishes!

The U.S. and E.U. will be the first to beg President Xi to end the punishment! 

They better ponder their next move carefully and not act reckless.





http://web.archive.org/web/20190808143653if_/http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/DPRKREE2017.1565274981.jpg ; https://archive.fo/MBc1n/28d86faf1fb8d02780b261f10fc76447dc82cb0c.jpg ; http://web.archive.org/web/20190404...7/?temp_hash=2bc8a8e641ac0d14fc258c0fd24bc06c ; https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...7/?temp_hash=2bc8a8e641ac0d14fc258c0fd24bc06c 
▲ 2. China is the first world's exporter of Rare Earth Elements.






http://web.archive.org/web/20190808...img7/fs/Trumbeggarbowlworltour.1565277584.jpg ; https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...6/?temp_hash=d774ae55fb03e91fb700ad165d3930f5
▲ 1. With more than 22 trillion dollars of debt, the U.S. will continue its *beggar bowl's world tour*, and as long as it needs to import Rare Earth Elements (R.E.E.) from China.

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## Viet

wanglaokan said:


> Yes, so what? Those are para military force.


Is the para under the PLA command?

Either way. years ago I bought a camera in a shop at tsim sha Tsui. Back in hotel I realized they sold me rubbish. I brought the camera back to the shop and wanted my money back. They refused and we began shouting. At some point I gave up I believe they became aggressive.

Maybe Wei Fenghe is right: the aggressive and greedy Cantonese need to learn a lesson


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## lcloo

d

People who said these young thug are not breaking laws should see what their police will act in same scenario. Damaging public property, attack police stations, forced detention of people, disruption of public peace, throwing petrol bombs, laser light attack (as those US Navy pilots making complain over South China Sea). How would NYPD or LAPD reacts?

A chewy gum on the door of MRT train in Singapore landed an American kid rattan sentence in court, yet this "criminal offence" is just kid's play comparing with HK rioters.

Video on HK's non-English media on the airport scene. They check and prevent passengers from entering and exiting airports, even assault them.
https://tv.on.cc/hk/index.html?i=ONS190814-14079-04-M&d=1565725958


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161290436109053953

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## Mista

lcloo said:


> chewy gum on the door of MRT train in Singapore landed an American kid rattan sentence in court



That kid got caned because he went around vandalising cars, not because he stick chewing gums on MRT doors.


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## lcloo

Thanks for the clarification, but in those old days, newspapers were reporting mainly on chewing gum offence, so much that it has a long deep lasting impression.

_In the mid 1990s, Singapore's laws began to receive international press coverage. US media paid great attention to the case of Michael P. Fay, an American teenager sentenced in 1994 to caning in Singapore for vandalism (using spray paint, not chewing gum). They also drew attention to some of Singapore's other laws, including the "mandatory flushing of public toilets" rule.[5] Confused reporting about these issues led to the myth that the use or importation of chewing gum is itself punishable with caning. In fact, the only penalties provided under Chapter 57 are fines and imprisonment.[6] _

_When a BBC reporter suggested that such draconian laws would stifle the people's creativity, Lee Kuan Yew said: "If you can't think because you can't chew, try a banana."[7] 
_
HK police are so soft and lenient, their laws are like kids play, even compare to Singapore. Compare with American police officials, they are like social workers. Fay was sentenced on March 3, 1994 to four months in jail, a fine of 3,500 Singapore dollars (US$2,214 or £1,514 at the time), and six strokes of the cane.[7]

About caning:
_*Caning[edit]*
Describing the caning day, Fay told Reuters he did not know the time had come for punishment when he was taken from his cell. He said he was bent over a trestle so his buttocks stuck out, with his hands and feet buckled to the structure. He was naked except for a protective rubber pad fixed to his back. The flogger, a doctor, and prison officials were also present. 

Fay told Reuters the caner walked sharply forward three steps to build power. "They go 'Count one' – you hear them yell it really loud – and a few seconds later they come, I guess I would call it charging at you with a rattan cane." He noted that a prison officer guided him through the ordeal saying: "OK Michael, three left; OK Michael, two left; OK one more, you're almost done." Fay reported that when the fourth stroke was delivered he was immediately unbuckled from the trestle and taken to a cell to recover. The caning, which Fay estimated took one minute, left a "few streaks of blood" running down his buttocks, and seven weeks later left three dark-brown scar patches on his right buttock and four lines each about half-an-inch wide on his left buttock. He said the wounds hurt for about five days after which they itched as they healed. "The first couple of days it was very hard to sit," Fay reported, but he said he was able to walk after the caning.[10] 
_

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## Mista

lcloo said:


> Thanks for the clarification, but in those old days, newspapers were reporting mainly on chewing gum offence, so much that it has a long deep lasting impression.
> 
> _In the mid 1990s, Singapore's laws began to receive international press coverage. US media paid great attention to the case of Michael P. Fay, an American teenager sentenced in 1994 to caning in Singapore for vandalism (using spray paint, not chewing gum). They also drew attention to some of Singapore's other laws, including the "mandatory flushing of public toilets" rule.[5] Confused reporting about these issues led to the myth that the use or importation of chewing gum is itself punishable with caning. In fact, the only penalties provided under Chapter 57 are fines and imprisonment.[6] _
> 
> _When a BBC reporter suggested that such draconian laws would stifle the people's creativity, Lee Kuan Yew said: "If you can't think because you can't chew, try a banana."[7]
> _
> HK police are so soft and lenient, their laws are like kids play, even compare to Singapore. Compare with American police officials, they are like social workers. Fay was sentenced on March 3, 1994 to four months in jail, a fine of 3,500 Singapore dollars (US$2,214 or £1,514 at the time), and six strokes of the cane.[7]
> 
> About caning:
> _*Caning[edit]*
> Describing the caning day, Fay told Reuters he did not know the time had come for punishment when he was taken from his cell. He said he was bent over a trestle so his buttocks stuck out, with his hands and feet buckled to the structure. He was naked except for a protective rubber pad fixed to his back. The flogger, a doctor, and prison officials were also present.
> 
> Fay told Reuters the caner walked sharply forward three steps to build power. "They go 'Count one' – you hear them yell it really loud – and a few seconds later they come, I guess I would call it charging at you with a rattan cane." He noted that a prison officer guided him through the ordeal saying: "OK Michael, three left; OK Michael, two left; OK one more, you're almost done." Fay reported that when the fourth stroke was delivered he was immediately unbuckled from the trestle and taken to a cell to recover. The caning, which Fay estimated took one minute, left a "few streaks of blood" running down his buttocks, and seven weeks later left three dark-brown scar patches on his right buttock and four lines each about half-an-inch wide on his left buttock. He said the wounds hurt for about five days after which they itched as they healed. "The first couple of days it was very hard to sit," Fay reported, but he said he was able to walk after the caning.[10] _




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252Fsingapore%252Fcomments%252Fcpo2ec%252F


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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161202484041277440

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## onebyone



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## Maxpane

is there any solution for this mess?


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## nang2

Maxpane said:


> is there any solution for this mess?


Not until it is ripe.


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## Maxpane

nang2 said:


> Not until it is ripe.


sir whats going on? any statemwnt from Chinese givernment about how they deal with that mess?


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## Menthol

Maxpane said:


> is there any solution for this mess?



Slowly it will.

Indonesia used to be like this when USA exercised their propaganda. 

It was the blackest era of Indonesia.


But we learned.

This year during the presidential election, the loser candidate want to repeat the chaos just like in HK today. But our government is quick handling the situation based on our experience in the past. And our people are also already matured.

What we learn from this, the most important for a country is stabilization, harmony and focus on development progress.


HK people one day will understand this... one day in the future.

Today is the black era for HK, and the blackest is in near 2047, when HK is fully controlled by China. I think the West is preparing the final and most destructive cataclysm for it.


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## nang2

Maxpane said:


> sir whats going on? any statemwnt from Chinese givernment about how they deal with that mess?


According to the one-state-two-systems policy, Chinese government lets people in Hong Kong to deal with it. That means to allow them to build a prosperous society AND to trash it. I don't think Chinese government will kick in unless violent riot is out of control, like Los Angeles 1992 riot. Now, Hong Kong police can still contain it.

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## Maxpane

Menthol said:


> Slowly it will.
> 
> Indonesia used to be like this when USA exercised their propaganda.
> 
> It was the blackest era of Indonesia.
> 
> 
> But we learned.
> 
> This year during the presidential election, the loser candidate want to repeat the chaos just like in HK today. But our government is quick handling the situation based on our experience in the past. And our people are also already matured.
> 
> What we learn from this, the most important for a country is stabilization, harmony and focus on development progress.
> 
> 
> HK people one day will understand this... one day in the future.
> 
> Today is the black era for HK, and the blackest is in near 2047, when HK is fully controlled by China. I think the West is preparing the final and most destructive cataclysm for it.


sir i agree . i cant rule out USA involvement . USA wanta to hurt China by HK after she could not hurt her by trade war. Its critical time for China



nang2 said:


> According to the one-state-two-systems policy, Chinese government lets people in Hong Kong to deal with it. That means to allow them to build a prosperous society AND to trash it. I don't think Chinese government will kick in unless violent riot is out of control, like Los Angeles 1992 riot. Now, Hong Kong police can still contain it.


hmm . hope sanity prevail in HK

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## nang2

Maxpane said:


> sir i agree . i cant rule out USA involvement . USA wanta to hurt China by HK after she could not hurt her by trade war. Its critical time for China


Then it would be smart for China not to be hurt by it, even by sacrificing Hong Kong. Hong Kong is no longer strategically important for China's economy development nowadays, particularly during the trade war. I think it would be wise for China not to bring military in until the situation is truly out of control and the whole world has lost the sympathy towards those rioters.

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## Maxpane

nang2 said:


> Then it would be smart for China not to be hurt by it, even by sacrificing Hong Kong. Hong Kong is no longer strategically important for China's economy development nowadays, particularly during the trade war. I think it would be wise for China not to bring military in until the situation is truly out of control and the whole world has lost the sympathy towards those rioters.


i tnink China will appease HK to control situation and after that her agencies would start real home work to nip the evil in the bud

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## nang2

Maxpane said:


> i tnink China will appease HK to control situation and after that her agencies would start real home work to nip the evil in the bud


That would be dumb. Hong Kong is a society that never earns its merit. The freedom, the stability and the rule of law were forced upon them. It is probably the time for them to actually earn it. Unfortunately, even those rioters don't think of earning it. They just want somebody else to force upon them. Look at them waving British and American flags during the protests. Even British people find it funny and distasteful.

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## Maxpane

nang2 said:


> That would be dumb. Hong Kong is a society that never earns its merit. The freedom, the stability and the rule of law were forced upon them. It is probably the time for them to actually earn it. Unfortunately, even those rioters don't think of earning it. They just want somebody else to force upon them. Look at them waving British and American flags during the protests. Even British people find it funny and distasteful.


hmm lets see.


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## Mista

nang2 said:


> That would be dumb. Hong Kong is a society that never earns its merit. The freedom, the stability and the rule of law were forced upon them. It is probably the time for them to actually earn it. Unfortunately, even those rioters don't think of earning it. They just want somebody else to force upon them. Look at them waving British and American flags during the protests. Even British people find it funny and distasteful.



You're right. I can't imagine any Singaporean who went through years of military training, no matter how much they hated it, to wave a foreign flag to protest. It will just diminish your sacrifice for the country.


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## nang2

Mista said:


> You're right. I can't imagine any Singaporean who went through years of military training, no matter how much they hated it, to wave a foreign flag to protest. It will just diminish your sacrifice for the country.


Of course. Singaporeans built and earned their own prosperity. The whole system was not forced upon them. They CREATED it and PROTECTED it themselves. A completely different story from Hong Kong.

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## KungFuLee

I am just glad that none of you actually live in Hong Kong. Because you all have got the situation all wrong.

As I said many time before, the protest start with that bill, there cannot be anything done until that bill is gone, for better or for worse.

Anyone can blame outside force whatever they like but don't look at what really happens inside, this is what people did in 2014, and see how far it goes until the next protest? Of course we can blame CIA, MI6 or any Alphanumeric group there are, because that would be easier to admit that is our own fault.

Well, before I think HKGolden or HK Discuss is crazy, but, after this, I think I probably ain't seen nothing yet.

And the part that said HongKonger don't have merit......I almost felt down my chair laughing.


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## gambit

nang2 said:


> Look at them waving British and American flags during the protests. Even British people find it funny and distasteful.


Very telling on who HK identifies with. And no, the Brits do not find it funny and distasteful.


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## Nan Yang

Looks like the airport sit-in has backfired.
These punks are apologizing now!


Hong Kong airport protesters apologise for disruption, ‘overreaction’
The statement says they are ‘heartbroken and helpless’ over the overreaction of some demonstrators, without mentioning specific incidents.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...-protesters-apologise-disruption-airport-plan

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## Dai Toruko

Nan Yang said:


> Looks like the airport sit-in has backfired.
> These punks are apologizing now!
> 
> 
> Hong Kong airport protesters apologise for disruption, ‘overreaction’
> The statement says they are ‘heartbroken and helpless’ over the overreaction of some demonstrators, without mentioning specific incidents.
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...-protesters-apologise-disruption-airport-plan



Chinese governance is not democratic; it's authoritarian. The encroachment of Chinese authoritarianism into Hong Kong worries many of Hong Kong's residents, and fearing for their basic freedoms, they have started to act in protest. So far, given the vast scale of the demonstrations, the relatively low incidence of violence and vandalism is remarkable and points to Hongkongers' discipline, character, and focus.


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## Nan Yang

Dai Toruko said:


> Chinese governance is not democratic; it's authoritarian. The encroachment of Chinese authoritarianism into Hong Kong worries many of Hong Kong's residents, and fearing for their basic freedoms, they have started to act in protest. So far, given the vast scale of the demonstrations, the relatively low incidence of violence and vandalism is remarkable and points to Hongkongers' discipline, character, and focus.


China IS doing very well without electoral democracy. China is also doing very well without religion.

Hong Kong past was because of Main land China. Hong Kong future is with China. China IS the solution to most of Hong Kongs problems. Jobs, growth and housing.

Just look nextdoor at Shenzhen ! Home of Huawei, DJI, Tencent, BYD etc.

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## Dai Toruko

Nan Yang said:


> China IS doing very well without electoral democracy. China is also doing very well without religion.
> 
> Hong Kong past was because of Main land China. Hong Kong future is with China. China IS the solution to most of Hong Kongs problems. Jobs, growth and housing.
> 
> Just look nextdoor at Shenzhen ! Home of Huawei, DJI, Tencent, BYD etc.



A protest movement involving millions of Hong Kong people did not spring up from a few agitators. It reflects the reality that a large part of the Hong Kong population is not happy with becoming part of the main China political system. In the protest there were always people around the movement with a variety of agendas. But, the dynamics that drove the movement primarily came from its participants. Those dynamics always produced unexpected results that were imperfectly understood both by participants and those hoping to influence them. If millions of people in Hong Kong were ready to make a protest against the Chinese government the central activity of their life, it would be a very large problem for the Chinese government to handle. But, a protest movement that has dwindled to a few hundred active protesters is a different story. That kind of development reflects the common reality of protests. The protests give large numbers of people a chance to express their emotions. But, as long as they have real opportunities for a productive life, they don't want to give it up for some endless protest movement.


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## Mista

KungFuLee said:


> Anyone can blame outside force whatever they like but don't look at what really happens inside, this is what people did in 2014, and see how far it goes until the next protest? Of course we can blame CIA, MI6 or any Alphanumeric group there are, because that would be easier to admit that is our own fault.



IMO it's unlikely that the CIA is involved, and even if they are they aren't powerful enough to be the prime mover. HKers seem to be genuinely against the bill; millions have come out to march, civil servants, lawyers, medical workers etc have came out to voice their displeasure. No protest movement would've lasted so long without public support.

It's a small group of extremists resorting to violence which has made things so ugly. Moreover, vandalizing the national emblem, throwing the PRC flag into the harbor, waving foreign flags are really dumb moves carried by those who let their emotions get the better of them, if their objective is really to withdraw the bill. They don't have enough EQ to give Beijing a ladder to come down and negotiate, how can the CPC compromise without shaking their moral authority to govern China? Before this happened they may still get the bill withdrawn but now it's basically nil. 

So right now the movement has become less to do with the bill and more to do with 'face' and the testing of wills against Beijing. Or maybe this is what these extremists actually want.


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## Galactic Penguin SST

*Casualties Of Previous Hong Kong Riots*


*Hong Kong 1956 riots*

The "Double Tens" riot was the bloodiest riot in Hong Kong's history. On October 10, 1956, pro-KMT mobs attacked Kowloon and Tsuen Wan on a large scale, killing 60 people and injuring more than 300 people. Since the incident occurred mainly in Kowloon, it is also known as the Kowloon Riot.

Due to their defeat in the civil war, many KMT supporters fled south to Hong Kong. October 10 is the National Day of the "Republic of China", also known as the "Double Ten Festival." In the "Double Ten Festivals" of 1956, the mobs violently robbed the staff of the Municipal Health Bureau under the impetus of the Kuomintang agents, during which time they set fire, robbed and raped women. Fritz Ernst, the deputy consul of the Swiss Consulate in Hong Kong, and his wife were attacked by a right-wing mob, causing serious injuries to the consul and the death of his wife.

During the riots, the right-wing thugs once occupied some streets in Hong Kong and forced the public to purchase the "blue sky, white sun and red soil flag" before release. The flag's original price of 5 cents was raised to 20 HKD. The violent acts of the mob caused public outrage. The Hong Kong government, with the assistance of the British army, quelled the riots on November 14. At this time, the Kuomintang members and their supporters were arrested and the right-wing riot forces were basically eliminated.

http://web.archive.org/web/20190815001541/http://news.stheadline.com/figure/index.asp?id=108



*Hong Kong 1967 riots*

The Hong Kong 1967 riots originated as a minor labour dispute, the tensions later grew into large scale demonstrations against British colonial rule. Demonstrators clashed violently with the Hong Kong Police Force. 


The 1967 riots were the colony's worst ever riots since the Second World War.
According to the statistics by the Hong Kong government, 51 people had been killed, of whom 15 died in bomb attacks, with 832 people sustaining injuries, while 4979 people were arrested and 1936 convicted.

http://web.archive.org/web/20190815...sig=ACfU3U1CqTT4XPqmCsT0Lzs1Y09kqKpLZA&w=1280
https://books.google.hk/books/conte...sig=ACfU3U0E_ARv6QCgQJjzbFHGRt7Lcfd70A&w=1280

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## oprih

KungFuLee said:


> I am just glad that none of you actually live in Hong Kong. Because you all have got the situation all wrong.
> 
> As I said many time before, the protest start with that bill, there cannot be anything done until that bill is gone, for better or for worse.
> 
> Anyone can blame outside force whatever they like but don't look at what really happens inside, this is what people did in 2014, and see how far it goes until the next protest? Of course we can blame CIA, MI6 or any Alphanumeric group there are, because that would be easier to admit that is our own fault.
> 
> Well, before I think HKGolden or HK Discuss is crazy, but, after this, I think I probably ain't seen nothing yet.
> 
> And the part that said HongKonger don't have merit......I almost felt down my chair laughing.


^Ignore this paid cia troll, he just want to earn some dollar cents to feed his family.

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## Viva_Viet

Mista said:


> It's a small group of extremists resorting to violence which has made things so ugly. Moreover, vandalizing the national emblem, throwing the PRC flag into the harbor, waving foreign flags are really dumb moves carried by those who let their emotions get the better of them, if their objective is really to withdraw the bill. They don't have enough EQ to give Beijing a ladder to come down and negotiate, how can the CPC compromise without shaking their moral authority to govern China? Before this happened they may still get the bill withdrawn but now it's basically nil.
> 
> So right now the movement has become less to do with the bill and more to do with 'face' and the testing of wills against Beijing. Or maybe this is what these extremists actually want.


Many HKers have UK-US citizenships, so its normal when they wave UK-US flags and of course they see No reason to negotiate wt incompetent Beijing who make 5 million Cnese lost jobs due to trade war while CPC officers r still so rich and have good lives, good salaries.


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## oprih

Nan Yang said:


> This Australian man makes these protester look like kids.


Lol the yellow bananas are scared of hurting white people, they are only violent against Asians.

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## lcloo

Viva_Viet said:


> Many HKers have UK-US citizenships, so its normal when they wave UK-US flags and of course they see No reason to negotiate wt incompetent Beijing who make 5 million Cnese lost jobs due to trade war while CPC officers r still so rich and have good lives, good salaries.


Having UK or US citizenship automatically make them non-Chinese citizens, they may hold HK IC cards but that is not indicative of being a Chinese citizen. No wonder these UK and US citizens want HK to be independent.

That would also means many Hong Konger are resident foreigners dwelling on Chinese soil.

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## Viva_Viet

lcloo said:


> Having UK or US citizenship automatically make them non-Chinese citizens, they may hold HK IC cards but that is not indicative of being a Chinese citizen. No wonder these UK and US citizens want HK to be independent.
> 
> That would also means many Hong Konger are resident foreigners dwelling on Chinese soil.


Everyone know Many HKers have UK-US citizenships. the problem is : dare Beijing govt' use forces to put down the protest and eccept being sanctioned from EU and make CN GDP per cpt drop back to 1,000 USD/year ??


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## lcloo

Viva_Viet said:


> Everyone know Many HKers have UK-US citizenships. the problem is : dare Beijing govt' use forces to put down the protest and eccept being sanctioned from EU and make CN GDP per cpt drop back to 1,000 USD/year ??


China does not easily fall into the trap of sending PLA troops to HK, because this is exactly what the West wants to see.

Trump just expose US link to HK protest.

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## KungFuLee

Mista said:


> IMO it's unlikely that the CIA is involved, and even if they are they aren't powerful enough to be the prime mover. HKers seem to be genuinely against the bill; millions have come out to march, civil servants, lawyers, medical workers etc have came out to voice their displeasure. No protest movement would've lasted so long without public support.
> 
> It's a small group of extremists resorting to violence which has made things so ugly. Moreover, vandalizing the national emblem, throwing the PRC flag into the harbor, waving foreign flags are really dumb moves carried by those who let their emotions get the better of them, if their objective is really to withdraw the bill. They don't have enough EQ to give Beijing a ladder to come down and negotiate, how can the CPC compromise without shaking their moral authority to govern China? Before this happened they may still get the bill withdrawn but now it's basically nil.
> 
> So right now the movement has become less to do with the bill and more to do with 'face' and the testing of wills against Beijing. Or maybe this is what these extremists actually want.



One have to be extremely naïve and borderline stupid to think CIA is involved. Seriously, if what the American want to do is to smear China, Carrie already did that for them, why bother to incite a riot. The American won't gain anything by a riot, which as the world know, China would just crush it with extreme prejudice, the mainland government can do it to their own people in 89' they can certainly do it to Hong Konger.

The problem is, this is exactly what the pro-China regime want people to think, you blame outside force and introduce some bill that eat away people day by day. That give them the pretext to do anything, or a carte blanch to do whatever they like. see how 2014 resolve? Chinese government blame US and UK for the "influence" of the occupy and yellow umbrella, I bought into that and protest against the yellow umbrella. 

The thing is, while the official stance is to blame the outside force, what the government did is basically crack down on media coverage and civil liberty of individual, people then needed to apply and assigned (you used to only need to applies and you can pick an area you want to protest) a place for you to express your opinion. While that did curb the protest and tightening control of the population, it also give rise to dissent movement. 

It wouldn't be so hard to see from the track record, before 2014, there are only 2 large scale protest in between turnover in 1997 to 2014 that's 17 years, only in 2005 when people wanted legislative reform after "explaining" basic law, and 2010 after the electoral, none of which is really violent and large scale. However, after 2014, we already have 3 major protest and riot in 5 years time span, they are 2014 Occupying movement, 2016 Mong Kok Riot and now this, each one of these protest and riot is more massive and more violent than before, and it escalated in just 5 years time spend. 

People live in Hong Kong know that, most of the Hong Konger, like myself, are not Pro-China nor Pro-Independent, about 4 to 5 millions of Hong Konger just basically live by or pro-status quo, we don't have any political motivation. About 1.5 to 2millions Hong Konger is pro-China, and the rest, about 10% (or anywhere 500,000 to 1 million) are pro-colonial or pro-independence. 

What the government do now, is basically blame everything to outside force, while overlook the core point of "I don't get involved unless things changes in a dramatic way" which mean every time the government go hard on their own people, they force the people in the middle, people like us, to go the other way. That is why the dissent movement picked up that quickly after 2014. That's because the government blame outside force and nothing actually changes. 

You are right, the problem is, as I said before, the protest now and the protest back in June are two different things, before it was about the bill, now, basically the extremist has taken over. What it does is that we have something started by the people in the middle being hijacked by the 10% pro-independent force, the thing is, China and Hong Kong government wasn't making the situation easier by standing firm. And by blaming outside force again and solely put the blame on the protester (I meant all of them, not just the 10%er). And also not helping by using the extremist tactics to deal with the extremist, now, both side (government and the extremist) hire thug to make trouble.

I still maintain what I say though, the only way to resolve this is to retract the bill, that way it will take the bullet out of the rioter gun, and then when they still want trouble, the government can use heavy hand tactics with the majority of Hong Konger approve. But if the government keep blaming outside force and not do anything but try to clamp down on protest, then we can probably see another big protest in maybe a year 
or two time, that is if they can douse this one to begin with.

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## Mista

KungFuLee said:


> What the government do now, is basically blame everything to outside force, while overlook the core point of "I don't get involved unless things changes in a dramatic way" which mean every time the government go hard on their own people, they force the people in the middle, people like us, to go the other way. That is why the dissent movement picked up that quickly after 2014. That's because the government blame outside force and nothing actually changes.



The HK government hasn't blamed foreign agents right? AFAIK it's the mainland government and media which is spreading all these conspiracy. I surfed Weibo and saw how they have reported on the issue. Blaming foreign agents, portraying the protest as independence movement, twisting facts like portraying how the girl was shot by protesters with an air gun, how she deserved it because she was seen cooperating with foreign agents and giving out money etc. It's scary.

Now I see many social media platform has been hijacked by mainland Chinese, with comments saying "HK belongs to China forever!". Don't you find it funny, when the protests was never about independence but now the narrative has been successfully shifted by their media?




KungFuLee said:


> I still maintain what I say though, the only way to resolve this is to retract the bill, that way it will take the bullet out of the rioter gun, and then when they still want trouble, the government can use heavy hand tactics with the majority of Hong Konger approve. But if the government keep blaming outside force and not do anything but try to clamp down on protest, then we can probably see another big protest in maybe a year
> or two time, that is if they can douse this one to begin with.



As I said, I think Carrie lacks leadership but she's also stuck between a rock and a hard place. She doesn't have the autonomy to withdraw the bill or to negotiate with the protesters.


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## KungFuLee

Mista said:


> The HK government hasn't blamed foreign agents right? AFAIK it's the mainland government and media which is spreading all these conspiracy. I surfed Weibo and saw how they have reported on the issue. Blaming foreign agents, portraying the protest as independence movement, twisting facts like portraying how the girl was shot by protesters with an air gun, how she deserved it because she was seen cooperating with foreign agents and giving out money etc. It's scary.
> 
> Now I see many social media platform has been hijacked by mainland Chinese, with comments saying "HK belongs to China forever!" Don't you find it funny, when the protests was never about independence but now the narrative has been successfully shifted by their media?



When you have half the legislative body appointed by a "council" and the other half were elected, plus the CE that is chosen by the Chinese People Representative Council. Was it the same thing? It doesn't matter which government said the CIA stuff, those are virtually the same people in charge.

There are no Hong Kong government in its functionality, we all knew that growing up in Hong Kong, for me, I wasn't even born when Hong Kong return to China, so for me, it wasn't a big deal. But from what I hear, the old boss is the new boss, everything is mostly the same.

Media clamp down happened after 2014 occupy movement, that is the start of China black rendition from Hong Kong, Thailand and Malaysia (Or the famous bookshop incident) which started by targeting publication that deemed anti-China, and start progressing onto major news outlet. Many independent newspaper are either set to align to Chinese, not Hong Kong stance, and beside some occasion editorial piece from SCMP, most are basically just mouthpiece for Chinese government.



> As I said, I think Carrie lacks leadership but she's also stuck between a rock and a hard place. She doesn't have the autonomy to withdraw the bill or to negotiate with the protesters.



She can't withdraw the bill without mainland approval, actually, people believe the bill does not come from SB but rather Chinese Government themselves, because if the reason to introduce the bill is to "close the gap" like they said, the Hong Kong Government should individually negotiate with every country that currently do not have a extradition order.

Many believe this is what comes up after the 2015 rendition, again, the bookshop incident, basically the bill is just Chinese Government way to justify the surrendering of anti-China dissentient, SB is just using the killer excuse to start this up. Hopefully it can pass the public like a normal request



lcloo said:


> Having UK or US citizenship automatically make them non-Chinese citizens, they may hold HK IC cards but that is not indicative of being a Chinese citizen. No wonder these UK and US citizens want HK to be independent.
> 
> That would also means many Hong Konger are resident foreigners dwelling on Chinese soil.



Actually, in term of law. Foreign Citizenship that acquired before 1997 handover is retained without repercussion of losing Chinese/Hong Kong Citizenship. However, Chinese Government would see a dual national a Chinese subject and thus, if you have say for example, UK citizenship (which most of the people have) and you have been arrested in Hong Kong, Mainland China or Macau, you are not entitled to UK consular service, all 3 governments can charge you as if you are a Chinese Citizen.

Hong Kong is not as prominent as Macau on dual citizens though, because the British government refused to grant all Hong Kong resident full citizen before 1997, on the other hand, Portgual grant every Macau resident full Portguese Citizenship prior to 1999 handover (Birthright until 1981, By descent 1981-1999). Which basically mean every Macauian born before 1999 are dual citizens.

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## 帅的一匹

Sooner or later the extradition law will be put in place.

Criminals can't get away.

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## bolo

KungFuLee said:


> I am just glad that none of you actually live in Hong Kong. Because you all have got the situation all wrong.
> 
> As I said many time before, the protest start with that bill, there cannot be anything done until that bill is gone, for better or for worse.
> 
> Anyone can blame outside force whatever they like but don't look at what really happens inside, this is what people did in 2014, and see how far it goes until the next protest? Of course we can blame CIA, MI6 or any Alphanumeric group there are, because that would be easier to admit that is our own fault.
> 
> Well, before I think HKGolden or HK Discuss is crazy, but, after this, I think I probably ain't seen nothing yet.
> 
> And the part that said HongKonger don't have merit......I almost felt down my chair laughing.


You know karate?


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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.space.com/china-military-buildup-hong-kong-protests-satellite-photo.html
*Satellite Photo Shows China's Military Buildup in Response to Hong Kong Protests*







This satellite image, made available by Maxar Technologies, shows military and security vehicles parked in the Shenzhen Bay Sports Center in Shenzhen, China on August 12, 2019 (issued August 14, 2019). According to media reports, military and security vehicles from the People's Armed Police have gathered in Shenzhen, a city just outside of Hong Kong


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161424397875331072
China's military buildup in response to over 10 weeks of escalating protests in Hong Kong can now been seen from space.


This WorldView-1 satellite image, taken Monday (Aug. 12) and released yesterday by Maxar Technologies, shows dozens of reported Chinese paramilitary vehicles inside the Shenzhen Bay Sports Center, which is located just outside of Hong Kong.



WorldView-1 is a commercial satellite owned by the Maxar company DigitalGlobe that launched in 2007 and is designed to observe and image Earth. The satellite bus and camera were built by Ball Aerospace.


DigitalGlobe has launched four WorldView satellites in all (WorldView-4 failed earlier this year) to observe Earth from space, with a new satellite constellation (called WorldView Legion) in the works. The first WorldView Legion satellites will launch in 2021 on SpaceX Falcon 9 rockets, Maxar has said.

According to Business Insider, the vehicles in this satellite photo belong to the Chinese People's Armed Police Force, a paramilitary police force focused on riot control and counterterrorism. A multitude of videos have surfaced on twitter showing large numbers of these military vehicles entering the city of Shenzhen. The New York Times also reported that 12,000 police officers, tanks, helicopters and amphibious vehicles had gathered in Shenzhen.


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## Nan Yang

KungFuLee said:


> Hong Kong is not as prominent as Macau on dual citizens though, because the British government refused to grant all Hong Kong resident full citizen before 1997, on the other hand, Portgual grant every Macau resident full Portguese Citizenship prior to 1999 handover (Birthright until 1981, By descent 1981-1999). Which basically mean every Macauian born before 1999 are dual citizens.


Interesting, especially when Portugal actually have an extradition treaty with China.

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## Beidou2020

gambit said:


> Very telling on who HK identifies with. And no, the Brits do not find it funny and distasteful.



They are white worshippers like you.

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## KungFuLee

bolo said:


> You know karate?



Kung Fu is not Karate.....

And no, I don't know any Karate, my interest is in Kung Fu and Wu Shi



Nan Yang said:


> Interesting, especially when Portugal actually have an extradition treaty with China.



Portuguese is very liberal with their Citizenship, they are one of the few country that have jus soli clause in their citizenship requirement, and the only country that extend all the way to all its colony. So basically if you are born in any of the Portuguese colony prior to it become independent, you are entitled to full Portuguese Citizenship. 

There are no way to know how many Macauian have Portuguese Citizenship, however, potentially, even with resident born after handover in 1999, those people can still apply Portuguese through heritage law (ie one or both their parent are Portuguese, or married to a Macauian that have Portuguese Citizenship), however, by doing so, they become solely Portuguese Citizen, but with Macau permanent residence So, potentially, all 600,000 Macau resident can be Portuguese, with the exception those who are Chinese but migrate to Macau after handover.


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## Nan Yang

Dai Toruko said:


> A protest movement involving millions of Hong Kong people did not spring up from a few agitators. It reflects the reality that a large part of the Hong Kong population is not happy with becoming part of the main China political system. In the protest there were always people around the movement with a variety of agendas. But, the dynamics that drove the movement primarily came from its participants. Those dynamics always produced unexpected results that were imperfectly understood both by participants and those hoping to influence them. If millions of people in Hong Kong were ready to make a protest against the Chinese government the central activity of their life, it would be a very large problem for the Chinese government to handle. But, a protest movement that has dwindled to a few hundred active protesters is a different story. That kind of development reflects the common reality of protests. The protests give large numbers of people a chance to express their emotions. But, as long as they have real opportunities for a productive life, they don't want to give it up for some endless protest movement.



Bear in mind. China do have powerful adversary United States. You think CIA just sit and shake leg and do nothing all day. Hong Kong is also full of fugitives from China like FaLunGong, corrupt officials and criminals. Beijing also do not control who goes in and out of Hong Kong. It does not take a high school kid to join the dots and figure out how to unite these forces. Money ? Just one fugitive, Jho Low hiding in Hong Kong stole 600million US dollars! Enough to fund a revolution.
And Hong Kong despite the economic and housing woes is still a good place to live. With support from China, the greater bay area, Hong Kong future looks even greater.
So it does not add up. Even if the extradition treaty is faulty, it does not make sense to riot.

I have friends whose children graduated in Hong Kong and do not want to come back to Malaysia. There is no future for young Chinese people in Malaysia.

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## macnurv

Mista said:


> The HK government hasn't blamed foreign agents right? AFAIK it's the mainland government and media which is spreading all these conspiracy. I surfed Weibo and saw how they have reported on the issue. Blaming foreign agents, portraying the protest as independence movement, twisting facts like portraying how the girl was shot by protesters with an air gun, how she deserved it because she was seen cooperating with foreign agents and giving out money etc. It's scary.
> 
> Now I see many social media platform has been hijacked by mainland Chinese, with comments saying "HK belongs to China forever!". Don't you find it funny, when the protests was never about independence but now the narrative has been successfully shifted by their media?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, I think Carrie lacks leadership but she's also stuck between a rock and a hard place. She doesn't have the autonomy to withdraw the bill or to negotiate with the protesters.



So as per you there are no demands for independence? Are you seriously high or something. There are clear calls for independence in particular Honkies are eager to become subjects of British Crown once again, along with asking for Trump to directly intervene. All coloured revolutions across the globe are orchestrated by CIA and its allies, this one is no different. In the beginning, Yes Honkies were protesting on legitimate grounds, but HK ills are hardly all China's fault, Honkies can thank themselves for most of them. But today the movement is definitely morphing towards pro independence being supported by US and UK to engage China in a regional conflict. China will never allow that to happen.

I have no idea why Britian is so overly interested in being a part of CIA's plan may be dreams of past are still alive? as they cant even get their house in order at the moment. However both Americans and British have very limited options when it comes to dealing with China. For Chinas part, they are showing great amount of restraint, but for how long I dont know.

China wouldnt mind Hong Kong to suffocate itself, these protests can not continue forever as they are stretched it will be affecting HK's economy in far worse manner. May be that is what China wants, and let HK suffer.

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## KungFuLee

Nan Yang said:


> Bear in mind. China do have powerful adversary United States. You think CIA just sit and shake leg and do nothing all day. Hong Kong is also full of fugitives from China like FaLunGong, corrupt officials and criminals. Beijing also do not control who goes in and out of Hong Kong. It does not take a high school kid to join the dots and figure out how to unite these forces. Money ? Just one fugitive, Jho Low hiding in Hong Kong stole 600million US dollars! Enough to fund a revolution.
> And Hong Kong despite the economic and housing woes is still a good place to live. With support from China, the greater bay area, Hong Kong future looks even greater.
> So it does not add up. Even if the extradition treaty is faulty, it does not make sense to riot.
> 
> I have friends whose children graduated in Hong Kong and do not want to come back to Malaysia. There is no future for young Chinese people in Malaysia.



Just because China and US is adversary, that does not mean the American is involved in any of this, especially this protest started with Carrie government, not the Chinese government. 

Depends on the perspective, some people are too blindly accuse America but failed to look at what really happening inside the government, don't get me wrong, the American, like any other government did do bad things around the globe. However, it is not hard to see there are something wrong with how Hong Kong operate, and that is not in tune with Hong Kong resident. Even if you say is true, the US did involve, the US did not start the whole thing, it was Carrie Lam, whether or not she is on Chinese order is another point, but that is what started this, and if US do take advantage on the situation, wasn't it better to make sure such situation did not start again so US can take advantage again in future role?

We all believe the protest in 2010 is from "Outside Force", then we all believe the protest in 2014 is from "Outside Force" and we all believe the riot in Mong Kok in 2016 is "Outside Force" doing, in the past 9 years we have 4 major disruption that got out of hand, and isn't it quite clear that blaming "Outside Force" did not work?


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## macnurv

KungFuLee said:


> Just because China and US is adversary, that does not mean the American is involved in any of this, especially this protest started with Carrie government, not the Chinese government.



Now that is a very flat footed argument that can not withstand even the slightest amount of scrutiny. Protests did begun as a result of Carries government and subsequent mishandeling of situation, but by the way things are moving US is not a benevolent power here. These protests are being directed towards goals set by Americans, people of Hong Kong will be the ultimate losers in this game.



KungFuLee said:


> Depends on the perspective, some people are too blindly accuse America but failed to look at what really happening inside the government, don't get me wrong, the American, like any other government did do bad things around the globe. However, it is not hard to see there are something wrong with how Hong Kong operate, and that is not in tune with Hong Kong resident. Even if you say is true, the US did involve, the US did not start the whole thing, it was Carrie Lam, whether or not she is on Chinese order is another point, but that is what started this, and if US do take advantage on the situation, wasn't it better to make sure such situation did not start again so US can take advantage again in future role?



One word HISTORY. America had a rich history of orchestrating such revolutions for decades, I would have to be completely blind or had serious issues with perceptions what is clearly evident, US is using this to engage and contain China. HK is a soft underbelly of China, and any unrest there will engage Chinese. Not to mention its seems you keep on blaming Carrie for all the ills of HK. But HK's ills started long before it was handed over to China, blaming her or China for everything is down right ridiculous. There are real grievances of people of HK but to state merely independence from China will solve all of them is ridiculous.

Hong Kong and its people seems to have not got rid of enslaved mindset as of yet, I dont want to go in details of mindset behind "Made in British Empire" phenomenon but this whole protests will only result in one thing. The end of One Country, Two systems. For all the noise, US have little options in this matter. Trump can not afford a recession, loosing 2020 is something he cant afford.



KungFuLee said:


> We all believe the protest in 2010 is from "Outside Force", then we all believe the protest in 2014 is from "Outside Force" and we all believe the riot in Mong Kok in 2016 is "Outside Force" doing, in the past 9 years we have 4 major disruption that got out of hand, and isn't it quite clear that blaming "Outside Force" did not work?



There is no ruling out of Outside forces in any of those protests, this is the first time they had crossed the threshold. Stop thinking that US is benevolent here, containing China is a stated policy goal of US and HK being soft underbelly of China, was always vulnerable.

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## KungFuLee

macnurv said:


> Now that is a very flat footed argument that can not withstand even the slightest amount of scrutiny. Protests did begun as a result of Carries government and subsequent mishandeling of situation, but by the way things are moving US is not a benevolent power here. These protests are being directed towards goals set by Americans, people of Hong Kong will be the ultimate losers in this game.



What goal might that be? Total independence? Because otherwise I cannot see anything that Hong Kong would do will benefit the US (Hong Kong used to be UK colony, not the US), even so, what benefit the US if Hong Kong really did goes independent?

When you talk about ulterior motive, one need to have an agenda, Hong Kong being one country two system, whatever happens in Hong Kong should not and will not goes back to China, at least not until 2047.

I lived in Hong Kong for 21 out of 22 years of my life, there were not very strong force behind Hong Kong independence. How long have you been living in Hong Kong to make that observation?



> One word HISTORY. America had a rich history of orchestrating such revolutions for decades, I would have to be completely blind or had serious issues with perceptions what is clearly evident, US is using this to engage and contain China. HK is a soft underbelly of China, and any unrest there will engage Chinese. Not to mention its seems you keep on blaming Carrie for all the ills of HK. But HK's ills started long before it was handed over to China, blaming her or China for everything is down right ridiculous. There are real grievances of people of HK but to state merely independence from China will solve all of them is ridiculous.



Again, what is the American agenda for making "these protestor" go nuts on Hong Kong government? And how US is using the HK issue to contain China? Hong Kong is not even the most prosperous province in China, what Hong Kong have China also have, things like deep water port, economic hubs, even Disneyland.

As I said, you can blame US all you want, that is up to you, on the other hand, while you start blaming US, you still have to look at the root clause of these protest. While you are correct, Hong Kong did not have these issue since turn over, but Hong Kong did not see this scale of Political Protest/Riot before as well, the one I can remember learning from Secondary School is 1967 Riot, that's 72 years ago. My parent wasn't even born back then. But you can see from the table I listed below. You can see how fast and how quick Political unrest rise after turnover, and even more so in the last 9 to 10 years.

1967 Anti-Colonial Riot
1999 Protest on Human Right
2005 Protest on Explaining Basic Law
2010 Protest on Election Reform
2014 Occupying Movement
2016 Mong Kok Riot
2019 Anti-Extradition Bill Protest.

And again, how many year do you live in Hong Kong to make the Independence movement? Cause I have been living in Hong Kong my whole life, I have not even see one come out outside these protest. Even so, how do you know that was really Hong Konger and not some Pro-China party people false flagging?





> Hong Kong and its people seems to have not got rid of enslaved mindset as of yet, I dont want to go in details of mindset behind "Made in British Empire" phenomenon but this whole protests will only result in one thing. The end of One Country, Two systems. For all the noise, US have little options in this matter. Trump can not afford a recession, loosing 2020 is something he cant afford.
> 
> There is no ruling out of Outside forces in any of those protests, this is the first time they had crossed the threshold. Stop thinking that US is benevolent here, containing China is a stated policy goal of US and HK being soft underbelly of China, was always vulnerable.



Wow, so if Trump cannot topple Hong Kong government, he would lose 2020 election? I would like to see your logic here.

1 Country 2 System is not what Trump want, it was what Hong Kong people want, and more IMPORTANTLY, WAS GUARANTEED BY CHINA in 1987 Joint Declaration. Nothing US can do would make China back out of this, it is not something involve the US, and if China do back out of this, that in itself is giving ammunition to the world to shoot China in its foot, nobody force China to give Hong Kong 1 Country 2 System, but when you do, backing out of this deal is your own fault. And is it so hard not to touch the issue for 50 years, again as Chinese Government promises?

Again, please provide explanation as to How US can use Hong Kong to "contain" China. Militaristically, Hong Kong did not have its own Military Force nor Paramilitary Force, it cannot help US topple China in the region, Economically, Hong Kong is not even as big as Hubei Province, so how exactly would US contain China by helping Hong Kong independent like you said?


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## Nan Yang

KungFuLee said:


> Just because China and US is adversary, that does not mean the American is involved in any of this, especially this protest started with Carrie government, not the Chinese government.
> 
> Depends on the perspective, some people are too blindly accuse America but failed to look at what really happening inside the government, don't get me wrong, the American, like any other government did do bad things around the globe. However, it is not hard to see there are something wrong with how Hong Kong operate, and that is not in tune with Hong Kong resident. Even if you say is true, the US did involve, the US did not start the whole thing, it was Carrie Lam, whether or not she is on Chinese order is another point, but that is what started this, and if US do take advantage on the situation, wasn't it better to make sure such situation did not start again so US can take advantage again in future role?
> 
> We all believe the protest in 2010 is from "Outside Force", then we all believe the protest in 2014 is from "Outside Force" and we all believe the riot in Mong Kok in 2016 is "Outside Force" doing, in the past 9 years we have 4 major disruption that got out of hand, and isn't it quite clear that blaming "Outside Force" did not work?



If there are people that accuse US of involvement, I do not blame them. US do have a history of destabilizing many countries China including.

Perhaps too many in Hong Kong are paranoid about Mainland China. China going to do this, China is going to do that. China has done nothing but help Hong Kong.

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## Mista

macnurv said:


> There are clear calls for independence in particular Honkies are eager to become subjects of British Crown once again



Clear calls by whom? A small group of extremist who threw away the PRC flag? I'm talking about the protest at large, which many segments of the society have joined including civil servants and lawyers.


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## KungFuLee

Nan Yang said:


> If there are people that accuse US of involvement, I do not blame them. US do have a history of destabilizing many countries China including.



If people say China have a history of killing its own citizen, what if I tell you I wouldn't blame people who tell me China love to kill their own people? That is basically the same as what you say

I am not sure about you, and I might sound like Pro-US to you, but as a student of law, I like to see evidence suggest that is happening before I go comment on the issue. The fact to the matter is, I do not see any. Unless you can clearly point to me how US organise HK Student or any organisation to demonstrate and what can the US gain on top of it, all I can say is that is your own opinion, and that's hearsay.

Blaming US for every misfortune we had, be it Hong Kong or China will not make any progress, we will just be as miserable, maybe you only feel better if the fault lies elsewhere, but at the end of the day, nothing was fixed, because well, we all blame US for that. I need to live in Hong Kong and work with China, most people here blaming US don't, I want progress, not who tell me who to blame.



> Perhaps too many in Hong Kong are paranoid about Mainland China. China going to do this, China is going to do that. China has done nothing but help Hong Kong.



The problem is, it is not the case of paranoia when the government really did push forward a bill that include China as a pre-arranged surrender destination. If the bill has pass, that would have been a fact. And fact remain, Carrie Lam still has not retract the bill.

There is a reason why China was left out on the FOO (as I explained before) and I would like that to remain at least until 2047 which is what the Chinese Government promise us in the first place. I don't want to go independent, I don't want to go back to UK rule, I just want nothing changes in the next 28 years. And most Hong Konger feel the same.

Also, I want to know how China helps Hong Kong? I don't see Chinese government giving us any handout nor do anything trying to build a better society in Hong Kong, what the Mainland do is to pump people into Hong Kong (150 per day permanently, 5000 a day on visit), much like what they do to Xinjiang. It's harder to find a doctor, it's harder to find a hospital bed, street are more crowded. House is less affordable now than 10 years ago. Call me ungrateful if you want I honestly don't see how China help Hong Kong, and I lives in Hong Kong until I took the Master Course here in Oz last month, and all I keep hearing my mum and dad say it's harder living then before, so I wonder, what did China help Hong Kong with?



Mista said:


> Clear calls by whom? A small group of extremist who threw away the PRC flag? I'm talking about the protest at large, which many segments of the society have joined including civil servants and lawyers.



I would not be that serious to people who use words like Honkies or Singkies


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## JSCh

Hong Kong carrier Cathay Pacific announces shock resignation of CEO Rupert Hogg, East Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times


> HONG KONG (AFP, REUTERS, BLOOMBERG) - Cathay Pacific announced the shock resignation on Friday (Aug 16) of its chief executive officer Rupert Hogg, days after the Hong Kong carrier was censured by Beijing because some staff had supported pro-democracy protests in the city.
> 
> In a statement posted on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Friday, Cathay Pacific said Mr Hogg had resigned "to take responsibility as a leader of the company in view of recent events".
> 
> ....

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## Mista

*Hong Kong response 'won't repeat' Tiananmen: Chinese state media*

BEIJING: Chinese state media vowed on Friday (Aug 16) that there "won't be a repeat" of the Tiananmen Square incident if Beijing moves to quash Hong Kong's pro-democracy protests.

In a rare reference to the bloody incident - which is usually taboo in mainland China - the Global Times newspaper insisted the country had more sophisticated methods than those it employed 30 years ago to crush protests in the capital.

"The incident in Hong Kong won't be a repeat of the June 4th political incident in 1989," it wrote in an editorial.

"China is much stronger and more mature, and its ability to manage complex situations has been greatly enhanced."

Hong Kong has endured 10 weeks of civil unrest, which have morphed from opposition to a hated extradition Bill into a wider, and sometimes violent, call for more rights.

An intensifying drumbeat of propaganda and strident warnings have sparked fears that Beijing might look to intervene - possibly militarily - in the semi-autonomous city.

Images of flag-waving military personnel and armoured vehicles in the border city of Shenzhen this week added to those fears, with international commentators invoking the spectre of the Jun 4, 1989 Tiananmen incident.

Weeks of student-led protests in the Beijing square were ended when the military rolled in with tanks. Images of the operation were beamed around the world.

Estimates on the death toll range from hundreds to thousands, although there is no official figure.

The brutal assault resulted in two years of economic near-stagnation as the country became an international pariah.

Discussion of what is euphemistically referred to as the "June 4th incident" is heavily censored in China, and few Chinese are familiar with the photos that are so well known around the world.

US National Security Advisor John Bolton warned China Thursday against creating a "new" Tiananmen Square in its response to the protests in Hong Kong.

Beijing has repeatedly blamed "foreign forces" for stirring up trouble in the city, which was handed back from Britain in 1997, and the Global Times said Friday that the US would "not be able to intimidate China by using the turmoil 30 years ago".

Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...repeat-tiananmen-chinese-state-media-11814286


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## macnurv

Mista said:


> Clear calls by whom? A small group of extremist who threw away the PRC flag? I'm talking about the protest at large, which many segments of the society have joined including civil servants and lawyers.



Those very small group had effectively hijacked the whole movement, yes there were genuine concerns and grievances but it had moved far beyond that.

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## 055_destroyer

Dai Toruko said:


> A protest movement involving millions of Hong Kong people did not spring up from a few agitators. It reflects the reality that a large part of the Hong Kong population is not happy with becoming part of the main China political system. In the protest there were always people around the movement with a variety of agendas. But, the dynamics that drove the movement primarily came from its participants. Those dynamics always produced unexpected results that were imperfectly understood both by participants and those hoping to influence them. If millions of people in Hong Kong were ready to make a protest against the Chinese government the central activity of their life, it would be a very large problem for the Chinese government to handle. But, a protest movement that has dwindled to a few hundred active protesters is a different story. That kind of development reflects the common reality of protests. The protests give large numbers of people a chance to express their emotions. But, as long as they have real opportunities for a productive life, they don't want to give it up for some endless protest movement.

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## Nan Yang

Any news about the young girl that was hit in the eye "by the police with a bean bag gun" ? 
No update ? No further news ? Why ?

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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> If people say China have a history of killing its own citizen, what if I tell you I wouldn't blame people who tell me China love to kill their own people? That is basically the same as what you say
> 
> I am not sure about you, and I might sound like Pro-US to you, but as a student of law, I like to see evidence suggest that is happening before I go comment on the issue. The fact to the matter is, I do not see any. Unless you can clearly point to me how US organise HK Student or any organisation to demonstrate and what can the US gain on top of it, all I can say is that is your own opinion, and that's hearsay.
> 
> Blaming US for every misfortune we had, be it Hong Kong or China will not make any progress, we will just be as miserable, maybe you only feel better if the fault lies elsewhere, but at the end of the day, nothing was fixed, because well, we all blame US for that. I need to live in Hong Kong and work with China, most people here blaming US don't, I want progress, not who tell me who to blame.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is, it is not the case of paranoia when the government really did push forward a bill that include China as a pre-arranged surrender destination. If the bill has pass, that would have been a fact. And fact remain, Carrie Lam still has not retract the bill.
> 
> There is a reason why China was left out on the FOO (as I explained before) and I would like that to remain at least until 2047 which is what the Chinese Government promise us in the first place. I don't want to go independent, I don't want to go back to UK rule, I just want nothing changes in the next 28 years. And most Hong Konger feel the same.
> 
> Also, I want to know how China helps Hong Kong? I don't see Chinese government giving us any handout nor do anything trying to build a better society in Hong Kong, what the Mainland do is to pump people into Hong Kong (150 per day permanently, 5000 a day on visit), much like what they do to Xinjiang. It's harder to find a doctor, it's harder to find a hospital bed, street are more crowded. House is less affordable now than 10 years ago. Call me ungrateful if you want I honestly don't see how China help Hong Kong, and I lives in Hong Kong until I took the Master Course here in Oz last month, and all I keep hearing my mum and dad say it's harder living then before, so I wonder, what did China help Hong Kong with?
> 
> 
> 
> I would not be that serious to people who use words like Honkies or Singkies



Because you guys chose the capitalistic systems; therefore, you chose to get exploited by those tycoons.

Don’t blame CPC, since they have to improve the living standard of the mainlanders first. The mainland China is CPC’s base support.

Yes, most mainlanders are pissed off about HK right now, but HK’s importance is also trivial to us.

So keep destroying your home, an impoverished HK might not be a bad thing for us the mainlanders.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because you guys chose the capitalistic systems; therefore, you chose to get exploited by those tycoons.
> 
> Don’t blame CPC, since they have to improve the living standard of the mainlanders first. The mainland China is CPC’s base support.
> 
> Yes, most mainlanders are pissed off about HK right now. But HK’s importance is also trivial to us.
> 
> So keep destroying your home, an impoverished HK might not be a bad thing for us the mainlanders.



If this is your point, then China would have no right to govern Hong Kong. You seems to not understand the responsibility of a government over its sovereignty, first of all, you cannot play "Favourite" if you want to say Hong Kong is part of China, you cannot say China will always look after "Mainlander" first. It is not the matter of "If" Hong Kong is part of China, Hong Kong is indeed part of China, they should be equally look after. 

Second of all, if you think Hong Kong important to China, then you would not mind Hong Kong going independent. Now that is not entirely true isn't it. 

I don't see the extradition bill have anything to do with the Tycoon. So whether or not Hong Kong follow a Capitalist Model is beside the point.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> If this is your point, then China would have no right to govern Hong Kong. You seems to not understand the responsibility of a government over its sovereignty, first of all, you cannot play "Favourite" if you want to say Hong Kong is part of China, you cannot say China will always look after "Mainlander" first. It is not the matter of "If" Hong Kong is part of China, Hong Kong is indeed part of China, *they should be equally look after. *


Absolutley, the government should scrap the 50 years handoff law and formally integrate Hoing kong into mainland China and treat Hong Kong exactly the same as all other Chiense cities.

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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> If this is your point, then China would have no right to govern Hong Kong. You seems to not understand the responsibility of a government over its sovereignty, first of all, you cannot play "Favourite" if you want to say Hong Kong is part of China, you cannot say China will always look after "Mainlander" first. It is not the matter of "If" Hong Kong is part of China, Hong Kong is indeed part of China, they should be equally look after.
> 
> Second of all, if you think Hong Kong important to China, then you would not mind Hong Kong going independent. Now that is not entirely true isn't it.
> 
> I don't see the extradition bill have anything to do with the Tycoon. So whether or not Hong Kong follow a Capitalist Model is beside the point.



So be it, but don’t ever think you could become independent, even TW couldn’t achieve this status. Even the US is not ready to make this move.

All your water supply and electrity came from mainland, do you really think you can get away from us?

All we need to do is sitting there and watch you guys keep torturing yourselves.



beijingwalker said:


> Absolutley, the government should scrap the 50 years handoff law and formally integrate Hoing kong into mainland China and treat Hong Kong exactly the same as all other Chiense cities.



Most anti-CPC HKers won’t accept that, they even refuse to accept the same school textbook as the Mainland China.

So no need to take care of them right now. Let them turning HK into a sh!thole, then they will start to realize that they are practically nothing without CPC.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> So be it, but don’t ever think you could become independent, even TW couldn’t achieve this status. Even the US is not ready to make this move.
> 
> All your water supply and electrity came from mainland, do you really think you can get away from us?
> 
> All we need to do is sitting there and watch you guys keep torturing yourselves.



Hey, don't put word in my mouth. I don't want Hong Kong to be independent. 
'
It was you who said that China have preferential treatment to mainlander, and you do not understand how Hong Konger is pissed off about that.

Also it was you who said Hong Kong is "unimportant" to China.

You said all that, not me.



beijingwalker said:


> Absolutley, the government should scrap the 50 years handoff law and formally integrate Hoing kong into mainland China and treat Hong Kong exactly the same as all other Chiense cities.



Nobody force China to give 50 years self-govern to Hong Kong, the Mainland government gave the Autonomous Statues by itself, if you don't want it to be there, then don't hand it out in the first place. 

But when you did give it out, you will look bad if you retract that promise.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> Nobody force China to give 50 years self-govern to Hong Kong, the Mainland government gave the Autonomous Statues by itself, if you don't want it to be there, then don't hand it out in the first place.
> 
> But when you did give it out, you will look bad if you retract that promise.



Someone suggested that everyone should be equal between mainland China and Hong Kong, I was just agreeing with that point.

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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> Hey, don't put word in my mouth. I don't want Hong Kong to be independent.
> '
> It was you who said that China have preferential treatment to mainlander, and you do not understand how Hong Konger is pissed off about that.
> 
> Also it was you who said Hong Kong is "unimportant" to China.
> 
> You said all that, not me.



HK is de facto unimportant to us right now.

If it wasn’t the blood tie, you guys would already have lived in sh!thole, same applied with TW.

You guys want to overthrow CPC, but you have to understand first you are nobody, you guys are by far insignificantly weak, an ant cannot topple an elephant.

Even USA is very eager to overthrow CPC, yet they also don’t have enough power to achieve their goal. They are left in desperation.

So as I said, keep turning HK into a sh!thole, we will take care after you when you start to beg us to make your miserable life better.

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## beijingwalker

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> HK is de facto unimportant to us right now.
> 
> If it wasn’t the blood tie, you guys would already have lived in sh!thole, same applied with TW.
> 
> You guys want to overthrow CPC, but you have to understand first you are nobody, you guys are by far insignificantly weak, an ant cannot topple an elephant.
> 
> Even USA is very eager to overthrow CPC, yet they also don’t have enough power to achieve their goal. They are left in desperation.
> 
> So as I said, keep turning HK into a sh!thole, we will take care after you when you start to beg us to make your miserable life better.


Let them 作茧自缚

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> HK is de facto unimportant to us right now.
> 
> If it wasn’t the blood tie, you guys would already have lived in sh!thole, same applied with TW.
> 
> You guys want to overthrow CPC, but you have to understand first you are nobody, you guys are by far insignificantly weak, an ant cannot topple an elephant.
> 
> Even USA is very eager to overthrow CPC, yet they also don’t have enough power to achieve their goal. They are left in desperation.
> 
> So as I said, keep turning HK into a sh!thole, we will take care after you when you start to beg us to make your miserable life better.



So you are saying if CIA can successfully overthrow Hong Kong rule, then they can overthrow CPC? But itsn't it was you who say Hong Kong is unimportant to China? If so, how does it work?

We had better life, and every year we are going down hill, I keep hearing in this forum saying China help Hong Kong, with what? I live in Hong Kong for 22 years, all after handover, each year, I found the street more and more crowded, and harder to get a doctor, harder to go on public transport, harder to buy a house because of all the Chinese investor. Are there some free hand out form China I missed? Shit, I should go back and claim it.



beijingwalker said:


> Let them 作茧自缚



But the seed was sowed in your end. 

So the cocoon that build is because of China, not because of Hong Kong? We got stuck between a rock and a hard place. And that is the truth whether you believe or not.


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## lcloo

Look at how US Portland police deal with protestors. People gave them thumbs up after arresting some protestors.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> Someone suggested that everyone should be equal between mainland China and Hong Kong, I was just agreeing with that point.



but is it? 

Again, no one ask you to give Hong Kong autonomous status, China did it with its own accord, I don't think the UK can force China to do it, what can they do? Refuse to give Hong Kong back? And certainly we are in no position to ask for that. 

But with that aside, you still need to look at Hong Kong as equal, do you not look at Tibetan the same as status as Chinese? Or Turkic Muslim in China? If so, then why treat Hong Kong like second class citizens? Does Tibet and Xinjiang both Autonomous Regions? If so, what is the different?


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## lcloo

beijingwalker said:


> Let them 作茧自缚


You are talking to a HK student studying in Australia, he is taking the sides of those black shirts rioters. 

I won't be surprise if he supports HK independence.

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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> So the cocoon that build is because of China, not because of Hong Kong? We got stuck between a rock and a hard place. And that is the truth whether you believe or not.



Sorry, no one will come to help, Hong Kong is part of China. The only choice they can make is Staying or leaving perhaps.

Those protestors waving US and UK flags and singing US anthem really angered Chinese public, they are hitting a dead end without 1.4 billion Chinese people's support, so many are crying for blood now in China, the Chinese government is just being nice, but it will change under the mounting pressure from the Chinese public.

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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> So you are saying if CIA can successfully overthrow Hong Kong rule, then they can overthrow CPC? But itsn't it was you who say Hong Kong is unimportant to China? If so, how does it work?
> 
> We had better life, and every year we are going down hill, I keep hearing in this forum saying China help Hong Kong, with what? I live in Hong Kong for 22 years, all after handover, each year, I found the street more and more crowded, and harder to get a doctor, harder to go on public transport, harder to buy a house because of all the Chinese investor. Are there some free hand out form China I missed? Shit, I should go back and claim it.
> 
> 
> 
> But the seed was sowed in your end.
> 
> So the cocoon that build is because of China, not because of Hong Kong? We got stuck between a rock and a hard place. And that is the truth whether you believe or not.



Because all those benefits and opportunities provided to HK by CPC have been embezzled by those tycoons.

Just look at what Li Ka-shing has done so far, all he has done is to make money out of the real estate, also making the housing price unaffordable for the normal folks.

Since you guys have accepted the capitalistic system from the beginning, so you have to live with your own misery.



lcloo said:


> You are talking to a HK student studying in Australia, he is taking the sides of those black shirts rioters.
> 
> I won't be surprise if he supports HK independence.



Without accepting CPC’s rule, both HK and TW’s future is becoming more and more bleak, it will be a dead end for them.

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## KungFuLee

lcloo said:


> You are talking to a HK student studying in Australia, he is taking the sides of those black shirts rioters.
> 
> I won't be surprise if he supports HK independence.



That's where you are wrong, go back and read my previous post, you know where I stand with the protest.

I am here just to let you know what is wrong with Hong Kong and what is wrong with China. And why people like you (who live outside both country) know absolutely the sum of nothing and start commenting on issue you have no idea about. 

I live in Australia for full 2 months, before that I studied Law and Commerce in HKU.

Have you even live in China or Hong Kong to know what is black shirt, what is white shirt? Have you even been in one of these protest or counter protest? If so how do you know what is going on?


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> That's where you are wrong, go back and read my previous post, you know where I stand with the protest.
> 
> I am here just to let you know what is wrong with Hong Kong and what is wrong with China. And why people like you (who live outside both country) know absolutely the sum of nothing and start commenting on issue you have no idea about.
> 
> I live in Australia for full 2 months, before that I studied Law and Commerce in HKU.
> 
> Have you even live in China or Hong Kong to know what is black shirt, what is white shirt? Have you even been in one of these protest or counter protest? If so how do you know what is going on?



As I said, keep jumping up and down if you want, but you aren’t even going to flinch an inch of CPC’s foundation. Instead, you are destroying your own future.

HK was originally destined to be a first tie city if it becomes fully integrated with Mainland China. Now, it is going to be a third tie city.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> Sorry, no one will come to help, Hong Kong is part of China. The only choice they can make is Staying or leaving perhaps.
> 
> Those protestors waving US and UK flags and singing US anthem really angered Chinese public, they are hitting a dead end without 1.4 billion Chinese people's support, so many are crying for blood now in China, the Chinese government is just being nice, but it will change under the mounting pressure from the Chinese public.



So, a few hundred people singing US national anthem that pissed off 1.4 billions Chinese? 

Do you know what is the scale of Hong Kong Independence movement? It's absolutely nothing, well, at least it was before. Before, most Hong Konger don't care about US UK or whatever, I just want to go to school in hogn Kong Island with out bumping into hundred of thousand of people blocking the street, and my brother just want to go to Tseng Kwan O for work without police shooting tear gas at him. 

Unless Chinese government know what is the core problem with Hong Kong, instead of blaming outside force, there cannot be any progress, yes, it may be able to subdue this protest, but what happened to the next one? Then then next one? Then the next one? We have been hearing this "outside force" thing for 19 years now. From 2005 protest (I was 7) to 2010 protest, to 2014 Protest, to 2016 Protest, to 2019 protest, how many "Outside Force' are there actually to begin with?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because all those benefits and opportunities provided to HK by CPC have been embezzled by those tycoons.
> 
> Just look at what Li Ka-shing has done so far, all he has done is to make money out of the real estate, also making the housing price unaffordable for the normal folks.
> 
> Since you guys have accepted the capitalistic system from the beginning, so you have to live with your own misery.



Do you know how Pro-China is Li-Ka Shing? He wouldn't do shit if they weren't agreed by the Central government. 

The tycoon has it hand on the problem, I never denied that, but you also cannot denied there is a problem with Chinese governance. Li Ka Shing did not start the extradition treaty now wasn't he? The Tycoon did not grant 150 permanent residence in Hong Kong from China, he may have a hand on the Travel Scheme tho.



> Without accepting CPC’s rule, both HK and TW’s future is becoming more and more bleak, it will be a dead end for them.



We accept CPC rules, but according to you, China did not accept HKer is Chinese. At least not equal share. And that is the problem.


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> So, a few hundred people singing US national anthem that pissed off 1.4 billions Chinese?
> 
> Do you know what is the scale of Hong Kong Independence movement? It's absolutely nothing, well, at least it was before. Before, most Hong Konger don't care about US UK or whatever, I just want to go to school in hogn Kong Island with out bumping into hundred of thousand of people blocking the street, and my brother just want to go to Tseng Kwan O for work without police shooting tear gas at him.
> 
> Unless Chinese government know what is the core problem with Hong Kong, instead of blaming outside force, there cannot be any progress, yes, it may be able to subdue this protest, but what happened to the next one? Then then next one? Then the next one? We have been hearing this "outside force" thing for 19 years now. From 2005 protest (I was 7) to 2010 protest, to 2014 Protest, to 2016 Protest, to 2019 protest, how many "Outside Force' are there actually to begin with?



CPC’s mistake was not to teach both HK and TW with cultural revolution.

Keep patronizing you guys is indeed not a rightful solution.

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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> So, a few hundred people singing US national anthem that pissed off 1.4 billions Chinese?
> 
> Do you know what is the scale of Hong Kong Independence movement? It's absolutely nothing, well, at least it was before. Before, most Hong Konger don't care about US UK or whatever, I just want to go to school in hogn Kong Island with out bumping into hundred of thousand of people blocking the street, and my brother just want to go to Tseng Kwan O for work without police shooting tear gas at him.
> 
> Unless Chinese government know what is the core problem with Hong Kong, instead of blaming outside force, there cannot be any progress, yes, it may be able to subdue this protest, but what happened to the next one? Then then next one? Then the next one?


Believe me, when the really government decides to do it, there will be no next one.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As I said, keep jumping up and down if you want, but you aren’t even going to flinch an inch of CPC’s foundation. Instead, you are destroying your own future.
> 
> HK was originally destined to be a first tie city if it becomes fully integrated with Mainland China. Now, it is going to be a third tie city.



Do you mean Tiers? 

Hong Kong is still first Tiers City, it is a city with GDP as large as a Chinese Province (Hong Kong as a cities is bigger than the 9th prosperous province, Hubei) . How many Chinese Cities can do that? Handful, I can count them all with both my hand. 

Also, Hong Kong is still the gateway where most chinese company anchor on, be that if you may, China want to develop Shenzhen to repalce Hong Kong, but I don;'t see that happening even now.


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## beijingwalker

China should open the border and let mainlanders to flood Hong Kong , then Hong kong locals will be drowned out in a couple of years.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CPC’s mistake was not to teach both HK and TW with cultural revolution.
> 
> Keep patronizing you guys is indeed not a rightful solution.



The problem is, CAN YOU DO THAT?

China itself cannot survive another cultural revolution, you can of course do it in Hong Kong, (Not so sure about Taiwan) but it will just be a laughing stock with most people. Face it, Hong Kong and China did not share the same cultural root. And today media is not the same as in 1960s China.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> Do you mean Tiers?
> 
> Hong Kong is still first Tiers City, it is a city with GDP as large as a Chinese Province (Hong Kong as a cities is bigger than the 9th prosperous province, Hubei) . How many Chinese Cities can do that? Handful, I can count them all with both my hand.
> 
> Also, Hong Kong is still the gateway where most chinese company anchor on, be that if you may, China want to develop Shenzhen to repalce Hong Kong, but I don;'t see that happening even now.


China is the only one who can decide Hong Hong's future, politically and economically. You will see.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> Believe me, when the really government decides to do it, there will be no next one.



you sure about that? That's what we have been hearing since 2005. The "outside force" have been dealt with, there will be no next one, then Bam! 2010 Protest, and afterward The "outside force" have been dealt with, there will be no next one, then Bam! 2014 protest, and afterward The "outside force" have been dealt with, there will be no next one, then Bam! 2016 Mong Kok Riot, well, you get the idea.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> Face it, Hong Kong and China did not share the same cultural root. And today media is not the same as in 1960s China.


Maybe you share British colonial masters culture, but they won't come to help you, face it.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> China is the only one who can decide Hong Hong's future, politically and economically. You will see.



Wow, you are just like the protestor from both side. I hear a lot of noise but no action......

Yes, I will see, and I will hold you personally accountable for it if there is a next one.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> you sure about that? That's what we have been hearing since 2005. The "outside force" have been dealt with, there will be no next one, then Bam! 2010 Protest, and afterward The "outside force" have been dealt with, there will be no next one, then Bam! 2014 protest, and afterward The "outside force" have been dealt with, there will be no next one, then Bam! 2016 Mong Kok Riot, well, you get the idea.


That's because China didn't do anything, but now they are realizing the mistake they made, once the government makes up their mind to intervene, that'll be once and for all.



KungFuLee said:


> Wow, you are just like the protestor from both side. I hear a lot of noise but no action......
> 
> Yes, I will see, and I will hold you personally accountable for it if there is a next one.


Yes, we'll see. It won't affect me the least in Beijing, it affect people in Hong Kong, if some of them ask for destruction, no one can help them.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> Maybe you share British colonial masters culture, but they won't come to help you, face it.



What a stupid sentence. 

First of all, I don't like the British, I wasn't even born during the Colonisation in Hong Kong. I have absolutely not a single idea how Hong Kong is back when UK is in control.

But according to you, if I have to seek that instead of looking forward to Chinese Governance, then I guess China is pretty bad. Good luck with your trade war then, don't let the fact that Chian growth is 17 years low affect your posting ability.


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## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> Sorry, no one will come to help, Hong Kong is part of China. The only choice they can make is Staying or leaving perhaps.
> 
> Those protestors waving US and UK flags and singing US anthem really angered Chinese public, they are hitting a dead end without 1.4 billion Chinese people's support, so many are crying for blood now in China, the Chinese government is just being nice, but it will change under the mounting pressure from the Chinese public.


It’s not worth going over the top going to a civil war by a bill. ok you can go thru a wall. But it’s just my opinion.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> What a stupid sentence.
> 
> First of all, I don't like the British, I wasn't even born during the Colonisation in Hong Kong. I have absolutely not a single idea how Hong Kong is back when UK is in control.
> 
> But according to you, if I have to seek that instead of looking forward to Chinese Governance, then I guess China is pretty bad. Good luck with your trade war then, don't let the fact that Chian growth is 17 years low affect your posting ability.


The trade war hurts everyone, we don't feel a thing actually, I understand your frustration, sorry, nothing you can do about it, you can choose to move to another country, the Hong Kong will be with China, forever.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> That's because China didn't do anything, but now they are realizing the mistake they made, once the government makes up their mind to intervene, that'll be once and for all.



Yes, you are pretty correct on this one, China did not do anything, They blame the Outside Force.

Maybe you should nuke Hong Kong and then move Mainlander in. wait, you guys already doing that.



> Yes, we'll see. It won't affect me the least in Beijing, it affect people in Hong Kong, if some of them ask for destruction, no one can help them.



Of course it won't affect you, you are detracted with reality. 

If you live in your own bubble, nothing is affecting you. But real life continue.



beijingwalker said:


> The trade war hurts everyone, we don't feel a thing actually, I understand your frustration, sorry, nothing you can do about it, you can choose to move to another country, the Hong Kong will be with China, forever.



You talk to me like I am one of the separatist, believe me, if I am, I will not be discussing with the tone I am with you right now.

I don't want anything, I want to go back to Hong Kong and make my money, money is always there to make, be it under whatever rules, and in case you forgot, I wasn't me who say Hong Kong is not China, but rather, you and your compatriot who said Hong Kong is not the same Chinese, and you expect we are okay with you said that?


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> Yes, you are pretty correct on this one, China did not do anything, They blame the Outside Force.
> 
> Maybe you should nuke Hong Kong and then move Mainlander in. wait, you guys already doing that.


Not openly, but can be a good option by the government, it's all up to the government's will, they can make or break Hong Kong with ease at their will, many people in Hong Kong just don't know this simple fact.

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## KungFuLee

Viet said:


> It’s not worth going over the top going to a civil war by a bill. ok you can go thru a wall. But it’s just my opinion.



Well, if you think of Extremism, you probably find more in these people then the one they are accusing of Rioting. And I am being rational.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> you and your compatriot who said Hong Kong is not the same Chinese, and you expect we are okay with you said that?


What? when did I say that Hong Kong is not the same Chinese, I always say "some".

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> Not openly, but can be a good option by the government, it's all up to the government's will, they can make or break Hong Kong with ease at their will, many people in Hong Kong just don't know this simple fact.



Again, do you even know China is already doing that? Like what you do with Xinjian and Inner Mongolia, China already send 150 people per day to come to Hong Kong, you can't threaten me with stuff that you are already doing. LOL


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## Furious

China doesn't understand yet that HongKong is HongKong because of its citizens culture and values. They can bomb it and bring in people from mainland but it wont be HongKong anymore. Also the economy and special attention it gets from west due to its democratic institutions, it will be over. All the sanction will be on the occupied Hongkong and China wont be able to smuggle goods and business through it.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> Again, do you even know China is already doing that? Like what you do with Xinjian and Inner Mongolia, China already send 150 people per day to come to Hong Kong, you can't threaten me with stuff that you are already doing. LOL


I m not threatening you, I only suggest it's a way to better integrate Hong kong back to China, after all Hong Kong was under foreign colonial rule for over a century, mainlanders can help Hong Kong to get rid of residual of colonial and slave mentality.



Furious said:


> China doesn't understand yet that HongKong is HongKong because of its citizens culture and values. They can bomb it and bring in people from mainland but it wont be HongKong anymore. Also the economy and special attention it gets from west due to its democratic institutions, it will be over. All the sanction will be on the occupied Hongkong and China wont be able to smuggle goods and business through it.


China's going to be No.1 economy in the world, so who can sanction China? the world biggest industrial nation, manufacturing nation, trading nation and consummer market.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> What? when did I say that Hong Kong is not the same Chinese, I always say "some".



First of all what do you mean by some?
Go back to your post again, you think that all Hong Konger unless they are pro-China is a trouble maker. Most of us just want to live by, and what China is doing is not helping. 

And then your buddy come by and draw a line between "Mainlander" first.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> First of all what do you mean by some?
> Go back to your post again, you think that all Hong Konger unless they are pro-China is a trouble maker. Most of us just want to live by, and what China is doing is not helping.
> 
> And then your buddy come by and draw a line between "Mainlander" first.


To be honest, Hong kongers will be mainlanders in a generation or two, so I agree there's no point drawing a line bewteen Hong kongters and Mainlanders.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> I m not threatening you, I only suggest it's a way to better integrate Hong kong back to China, after all Hong Kong was under foreign colonial rule for over a century, mainlanders can help Hong Kong to get rid of residual of colonial and slave mentality.



Yeah, how long have you try to get rid of yours's? 

I did not see you wearing Qipao or Ma-Qua, look at your wardrobe before you tell people what is "Slave Mentality" 

Don't throw stone when you live in a glass house. When China itself follow the western culture, probably even more so than the Hong Konger.


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## Viet

KungFuLee said:


> Well, if you think of Extremism, you probably find more in these people then the one they are accusing of Rioting. And I am being rational.


Ok you are chinese I think you know it. For the benefit of non chinese I put some explanations here.

To understand the current situation one should understand the history of China. The history of China is a history of extremes. Or the history of how chinese rulers behave. Chinese rulers believe to a regime of strength. Regardless of making sense or not. Some would say China rulers believe to a regime of terror. They believe, terror will unite the country.

The first Han ruler Qin punished subjects that were accused of lightest insubordination or what he thought of by foot chopping and tossed the body parts to mountain.

It’s not about who is right who is wrong.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> Yeah, how long have you try to get rid of yours's?
> 
> I did not see you wearing Qipao or Ma-Qua, look at your wardrobe before you tell people what is "Slave Mentality"
> 
> Don't throw stone when you live in a glass house. When China itself follow the western culture, probably even more so than the Hong Konger.


Modern clothing doesn't mean we have slave mentality, it's convenient in modern life. I said residual of those mentality, some people in Hong kong still have, we don't see much UK n US flag waving in mainland China at least.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> Modern clothing doesn't mean we have slave mentality, it's convenient in modern life. I said residual of those mentality, some people in Hong kong still have, we don't see much UK n US flag waving in mainland China at least.



The design of modern clothing, how many Foreign Designer Label? the way people in China eat, the way people buy stuff, the shopping culture (Black Friday), the Coffee Culture, the TV program the Chinese made, the Production, most modern TV program follow Western Reality TV show form, in some case direct copy or buy licences production from other. Tencent even have to make the American Propaganda Movie Top Gun 2, talking about slave mentality? Why they don't make a movie about Chinese Air Force but have to make one glorified the American? 

The Automobile Design, the way people talk, the way people do work, do you not work 9 to 5 or 10 to 6? The way people deal with everything else.

Now tell me how much China do that with Western Influence?

You don't need to wave foreign flag to be a foreign slave, just look at how much different you are now than a Chinese in say, Qing Dynasty. Those are the last Chinese Culture.


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> Do you mean Tiers?
> 
> Hong Kong is still first Tiers City, it is a city with GDP as large as a Chinese Province (Hong Kong as a cities is bigger than the 9th prosperous province, Hubei) . How many Chinese Cities can do that? Handful, I can count them all with both my hand.
> 
> Also, Hong Kong is still the gateway where most chinese company anchor on, be that if you may, China want to develop Shenzhen to repalce Hong Kong, but I don;'t see that happening even now.



Without the subsidy policies from CPC, you are just nothing, and your living standard is de facto by far subpar to many mainland cities.

In 1997, George Soros had created a financial havoc in Hong Kong, and without the rescue from CPC, I doubt today's Hong Kong could be even better than Saigon.

BTW, love it or leave it. The Mainland China will soon be world's #1 without any contribution from HK or TW.



KungFuLee said:


> The problem is, CAN YOU DO THAT?
> 
> China itself cannot survive another cultural revolution, you can of course do it in Hong Kong, (Not so sure about Taiwan) but it will just be a laughing stock with most people. Face it, Hong Kong and China did not share the same cultural root. And today media is not the same as in 1960s China.



China has born from ashes because of CR.

The CR has smashed the mentality of old China, and without it, the new China cannot become that strong.

The old China was weak, that's why it got easily conquered and humiliated by the western powers.

Both HK and TW still belong to the old China, that's why you guys are so subservient in front of white men.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Without the subsidy policies from CPC, you are just nothing, and your living standard is de facto by far subpar to many mainland cities.
> 
> In 1997, George Soros had created a financial havoc in Hong Kong, and without the rescue from CPC, I doubt today's Hong Kong could be even better than Saigon.
> 
> BTW, love it or leave it. The Mainland China will soon be world's #1 without any contribution from HK or TW.



Yeah, without CPC subsidy HK is nothing, then The Chinese Cities below is less than nothing because they have GDP less than Hong Kong

Guangzhou
Chongqing
Tianjin
Suzhou
Chengdu
Wuhan
Honzhou

Wait, it's actually easier to list Chinese Cities that have GDP bigger than Hong Kong.

Beijing
Shanghai
Shenzhen
Macau

Umm... That's it.

So, basically, you just call the other 670 Chinese Cities less than nothing.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China has born from ashes because of CR.
> 
> The CR has smashed the mentality of old China, and without it, the new China cannot become that strong.
> 
> The old China was weak, that's why it got easily conquered and humiliated by the western powers.
> 
> Both HK and TW still belong to the old China, that's why you guys are so subservient in front of white men.



I found it funny it come form a Chinese Living in Canada.

So when you say Love it or Leave it? Does that mean you don't love China? Because leaving is your choice.

Haha, what's the word I am looking for? Yeah, right, Hypocrisy


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Ok you are chinese I think you know it. For the benefit of non chinese I put some explanations here.
> 
> To understand the current situation one should understand the history of China. The history of China is a history of extremes. Or the history of how chinese rulers behave. Chinese rulers believe to a regime of strength. Regardless of making sense or not. Some would say China rulers believe to a regime of terror. They believe, terror will unite the country.
> 
> The first Han ruler Qin punished subjects that were accused of lightest insubordination or what he thought of by foot chopping and tossed the body parts to mountain.
> 
> It’s not about who is right who is wrong.



CPC doesn't even need to rule HK with iron fist, since HKers are poised to destroy themselves right now.

The US is super disappointed right now, since HK's color revolution didn't affect the Mainland China at all, and most Mainland Chinese have not succumbed to the influence from those anti-CPC HKers. In contrary, CPC's approval rating among the Mainland Chinese is now higher than ever.

The US is running out of options right now, since TPP, Trade War, Color Revolution all failed miserably.

And their own economy and stock market are on life support right now, and nobody can stop China at this point.

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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> The design of modern clothing, how many Foreign Designer Label? the way people in China eat, the way people buy stuff, the shopping culture (Black Friday), the Coffee Culture, the TV program the Chinese made, the Production, most modern TV program follow Western Reality TV show form, in some case direct copy or buy licences production from other. Tencent even have to make the American Propaganda Movie Top Gun 2, talking about slave mentality? Why they don't make a movie about Chinese Air Force but have to make one glorified the American?
> 
> The Automobile Design, the way people talk, the way people do work, do you not work 9 to 5 or 10 to 6? The way people deal with everything else.
> 
> Now tell me how much China do that with Western Influence?
> 
> You don't need to wave foreign flag to be a foreign slave, just look at how much different you are now than a Chinese in say, Qing Dynasty. Those are the last Chinese Culture.


People copy good stuff and that's how the humanity develops, no culture is stagnant and never changes, the reason why the world copies the west in the last couple of hundred years is because during the time the west is more developed than the rest of the world, but that also will change with time, actually it is starting to change now, China now is moving to the front in many new technologies, so it's not impossible to see the west copies more and more Chinese innovations and technology in the future, but that doesn't mean slave mentality. 

Wether Qing was authentic Chinese culture is debatable and contraversial in China.

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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> Yeah, without CPC subsidy HK is nothing, then The Chinese Cities below is less than nothing because they have GDP less than Hong Kong
> 
> Guangzhou
> Chongqing
> Tianjin
> Suzhou
> Chengdu
> Wuhan
> Honzhou
> 
> Wait, it's actually easier to list Chinese Cities that have GDP bigger than Hong Kong.
> 
> Beijing
> Shanghai
> Shenzhen
> Macau
> 
> Umm... That's it.
> 
> So, basically, you just call the other 670 Chinese Cities less than nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> I found it funny it come form a Chinese Living in Canada.
> 
> So when you say Love it or Leave it? Does that mean you don't love China? Because leaving is your choice.
> 
> Haha, what's the word I am looking for? Yeah, right, Hypocrisy



Most Chinese cities have contributed to China's development through taxes.

For example, Shanghai alone has paid $100 billion last year, while HK has not paid a dime.

Since HKers and Taiwanese don't consider themselves as Chinese first, then we won't treat you like one.

Most Chinese only care about the territorial sovereignty of HK and TW, so you are overestimating your importance.

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## beijingwalker

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CPC doesn't even need to rule HK with iron fist, since HKers are poised to destroy themselves right now.
> 
> The US is super disappointed right now, since HK's color revolution didn't affect the Mainland China at all, and most Mainland Chinese have not succumbed to the influence from those anti-CPC HKers. In contrary, CPC's approval rating among the Mainland Chinese is now higher than ever.
> 
> The US is running out of options right now, since TPP, Trade War, Color Revolution all failed miserably.
> 
> And their own economy and stock market are on life support right now, and nobody can stop China at this point.


What those protestors are doing is to alineate themselves from the Chinese people as a whole, that's the stupidest thing one can ever do, now good luck with them, a tiny drop fighting an ocean, what else the result can be.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> People copy good stuff and that's how the humanity develops, no culture is stagnant and never changes, the reason why the world copies the west in the last couple of hundred years is because during the time the west is more developed than the rest of the world, but that also will change with time, actually it is starting to change now, China now is moving to the front in many new technologies, so it's not impossible to see the west copies more and more Chinese innovations and technology in the future, but that doesn't mean slave mentality.
> 
> Wether Qing was authentic Chinese culture is debatable and contraversial in China.



Turn on your phone, if you have any mobile game? If yes, do your game follow a Capitalist Approach? Or is it about Mao's Little Red Book?

You can fool yourself by saying "I am not affected by all that" but one way or another, everyone lost their original value and become generic

The problem is, since how long did China showcase their "Culture" to the world? Take movie as an instant How many Chinese Culture movie was produced by China was known internationally? You have Hollywood Movie showing in China, and no matter how much China censorship at play, don't tell me Avenger : Winter War, a movie that gross 300 billions in China is Glorify China? It's Captain America, not Captain China, why there aren't any Movie coming out is about China?

Movie happens just the last millennium, and culture existed for thousand of year, are you saying there aren't anything worth making for local screen?

And the Coffee Culture and Red Wine Culture have nothing to do with Technology. It's about Grape and Bean. You cannot possible put that in.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most Chinese cities have contributed to China's development through taxes.
> 
> For example, Shanghai alone has paid $100 billion last year, while HK has not paid a dime.
> 
> Since HKers and Taiwanese don't consider themselves as Chinese first, then we won't treat you like one.
> 
> Most Chinese only care about the territorial sovereignty of HK and TW, so you are overestimating your importance.



You probably did not contribute to Chinese Tax when you are living in Canada. We do.

Are you really do think HK do not pay taxes to China? LOL. TW perhaps. HKL most definitely did.


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> You probably did not contribute to Chinese Tax when you are living in Canada. We do.
> 
> Are you really do think HK do not pay taxes to China? LOL. TW perhaps. HKL most definitely did.



Resorting personal attack doesn't change the fact that CPC's approval rating among the Mainlanders is now higher than ever, that's what really matter. CPC won this war.

Most Mainlanders are now super ultra-nationalists, they would rather see both HK and TW sinking at the bottom ocean rather than letting it becoming independent.

So keep dreaming about overthrowing CPC's rule with the help of USA, you guys are at the dead end of your miserable manifestation.

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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> Turn on your phone, if you have any mobile game? If yes, do your game follow a Capitalist Approach? Or is it about Mao's Little Red Book?
> 
> You can fool yourself by saying "I am not affected by all that" but one way or another, everyone lost their original value and become generic
> 
> The problem is, since how long did China showcase their "Culture" to the world? Take movie as an instant How many Chinese Culture movie was produced by China was known internationally? You have Hollywood Movie showing in China, and no matter how much China censorship at play, don't tell me Avenger : Winter War, a movie that gross 300 billions in China is Glorify China? It's Captain America, not Captain China, why there aren't any Movie coming out is about China?
> 
> Movie happens just the last millennium, and culture existed for thousand of year, are you saying there aren't anything worth making for local screen?
> 
> And the Coffee Culture and Red Wine Culture have nothing to do with Technology. It's about Grape and Bean. You cannot possible put that in.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably did not contribute to Chinese Tax when you are living in Canada. We do.
> 
> Are you really do think HK do not pay taxes to China? LOL. TW perhaps. HKL most definitely did.



Many Chinese games are pretty popular now around the world, and Chinese dramas and movies are getting better, it takes some time for China to get everything back to the top in the history.


*Yanxi Palace: The most Googled show on Earth*
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-46630781

*CHINESE FILM ‘THE WANDERING EARTH’ BREAKS BOX OFFICE RECORD
https://www.weareresonate.com/2019/...breaks-box-office-record-gets-pirated-widely/*

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## ChineseTiger1986

beijingwalker said:


> Many Chinese games are pretty popular now around the world, and Chinese dramas and movies are getting better, it takes some time for China to get everything back to the top in the history.
> 
> 
> *Yanxi Palace: The most Googled show on Earth*
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-46630781
> 
> *CHINESE FILM ‘THE WANDERING EARTH’ BREAKS BOX OFFICE RECORD
> https://www.weareresonate.com/2019/...breaks-box-office-record-gets-pirated-widely/*



HK's drama and movies are becoming sh1ttier than ever, and nobody in Mainland China will ever give a damn.

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## beijingwalker

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> HK's drama and movies are becoming sh1ttier than ever, and nobody in Mainland China will ever give a damn.


I don't know if Hong Kong still makes movies or TV shows.... haven't seen any for a longggg time.

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## ChineseTiger1986

beijingwalker said:


> I don't know if Hong Kong still makes movies or TV shows.... haven't seen any for a longggg time.



Their entertainment products are even losing most Mainland audiences in Guangdong.

So can't blame CPC for suppressing their cinematic culture.

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## bolo

lcloo said:


> You are talking to a HK student studying in Australia, he is taking the sides of those black shirts rioters.
> 
> I won't be surprise if he supports HK independence.


Kung Fu Phooey VS the white shirts



beijingwalker said:


> I don't know if Hong Kong still makes movies or TV shows.... haven't seen any for a longggg time.


It's sad Hong Kong cannot make anything. India is more innovative than Hong Kong

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## beijingwalker



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## bolo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Their entertainment products are even losing most Mainland audiences in Guangdong.
> 
> So can't blame CPC for suppressing their cinematic culture.


I don't understand Chinese but I saw a clip of Hong Kong drama and changed the channel. 
I like Hollywood series.


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## ChineseTiger1986

bolo said:


> I don't understand Chinese but I saw a clip of Hong Kong drama and changed the channel.
> I like Hollywood series.



Without the blood tie and bound from China, I doubt HK could fare better than Vietnam.

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## beijingwalker

I can see that many protestors don't want to be Chinese, but Hong kong is part of China, no one and no force can change this hard fact, so they can choose to leave, a good riddance for China.

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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> Many Chinese games are pretty popular now around the world, and Chinese dramas and movies are getting better, it takes some time for China to get everything back to the top in the history.
> 
> 
> *Yanxi Palace: The most Googled show on Earth*
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-46630781
> 
> *CHINESE FILM ‘THE WANDERING EARTH’ BREAKS BOX OFFICE RECORD
> https://www.weareresonate.com/2019/...breaks-box-office-record-gets-pirated-widely/*



Well, Sonny Leone is the most googled celeb in the world 2 years in a row (2018 and 2019), I bet you millions dollars you don't even know who Sonny Leone is.

Of course China or Chinese will know about this Yanxi Place, as much as Indian know about who Sonny Leone is, that does not mean that will create world influence, sometime being the most googled is well, being the most googled, back when Psy "Gangnam Style" is a hit, Psy was the most googled celebrity in google, does that mean anything?.

And I would not say The Wandering Earth is an international big hit, with 440 millions box offices Even the Martian makes 660 millions. Also, I don't think being pirated widely is a good things.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Without the blood tie and bound from China, I doubt HK could fare better than Vietnam.



Again, then I guess the 670 China Cities will not fare better than Vietnam, if everything you say is to go by?

You still did not glance the fact that Hong Kong is top 4 cities in China according to GDP, and *Top City in China* if we go by GDP by PPP. Out of 674 Cities, Hong Kong's GDP is larger than 27/36 Chinese Province (Noted, PROVINCES, NOT CITIES) You keep saying Hong Kong is worse than shit does not mean it is true, you say that only mean you are badmouthing 670 Chinese Cities and 27 Chinese Provinces.



bolo said:


> Kung Fu Phooey VS the white shirts
> 
> 
> It's sad Hong Kong cannot make anything. India is more innovative than Hong Kong



Honestly? I don't really care about White Shirt and Black shirt, to me they are equally disgusting.

As I said, I found it strange, that most Pro-China people in the forum were neither live in Hong Kong and China. So.……. That in itself say something, maybe that is the "Foreign Power" the Chinese Government is talking about? .

This forum make me miss HK Golden and HK Discuss, well, they are Pro-China, but at least I know they live in Hong Kong. LOL


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## obj 705A

poor Gordon, white kids used to make fun of him because he is different so he started telling himself "urgh I wish if I was white then I could integrate with them" & thus he became a white worshipper who hates his Chinese identity.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Resorting personal attack doesn't change the fact that CPC's approval rating among the Mainlanders is now higher than ever, that's what really matter. CPC won this war.
> 
> Most Mainlanders are now super ultra-nationalists, they would rather see both HK and TW sinking at the bottom ocean rather than letting it becoming independent.
> 
> So keep dreaming about overthrowing CPC's rule with the help of USA, you guys are at the dead end of your miserable manifestation.



Did I make a personal attack? I merely states a fact that a Canadian would not pay tax to Chinese Government, unless you have some weird Canadian Law that require people who live and work in Canada, like you said you are, have to pay tax for Chinese Government. Then what I say is a fact and not a personal attack.

I don't really care what you rather see. That's your personal choice, I want to see Emelia Clarke dance naked in front of me, but well, what you want may not always be what you get.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CPC doesn't even need to rule HK with iron fist, since HKers are poised to destroy themselves right now.
> 
> The US is super disappointed right now, since HK's color revolution didn't affect the Mainland China at all, and most Mainland Chinese have not succumbed to the influence from those anti-CPC HKers. In contrary, CPC's approval rating among the Mainland Chinese is now higher than ever.
> 
> The US is running out of options right now, since TPP, Trade War, Color Revolution all failed miserably.
> 
> And their own economy and stock market are on life support right now, and nobody can stop China at this point.


It’s the opposite. It’s clear that Beijing has the iron fist on display. The extraction law is a test ballon with more to come. The HKer are in panic.

Xi apparently follows the hardliners Wei Fenghe. That is not a good sign. Neither for HK not Taiwan. For nobody in the region. I hope the Cantonese and Taiwanese can hold the ground for a while.

As for the US, if I was Xi, I would not bet on the PLA.


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## Mista

Viet said:


> Xi apparently follows the hardliners Wei Fenghe.



Does he even have the power to influence Xi? In China's political system, power is vested in the party's position rather than the state's position. I would imagine that someone like Wang Qishan or Wang Yang in the Standing Committee to be far more powerful and influential than Wei.

Last year when I was serving in the military the Minister of Defense of China visited my camp, and I don't remember any Singaporean Minister accompanying him or any grand welcome. There's no media reporting as well. He's probably someone relatively unimportant in China.

You compare this to someone like Wang Qishan:
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dip...re-pm-lee-hsien-loong-surprise-meeting-chinas


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## KungFuLee

Mista said:


> Does he even have the power to influence Xi? In China's political system, power is vested in the party's position rather than the state's position. I would imagine that someone like Wang Qishan or Wang Yang in the Standing Committee to be far more powerful and influential than Wei.
> 
> Last year when I was serving in the military the Minister of Defense of China visited my camp, and I don't remember any Singaporean Minister accompanying him or any grand welcome. There's no media reporting as well. He's probably someone relatively unimportant in China.
> 
> You compare this to someone like Wang Qishan:
> https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dip...re-pm-lee-hsien-loong-surprise-meeting-chinas



Within the Chinese Government, the position of Minister o National Defence is a clawless tiger, Xi is the ultimate person to deal with defence related issue. It is always Xi and his inner circle, now who exactly in this inner circle is not known. Maybe he is one of the inner circle for Xi? Nobody knows, but if that is true, then that would explain a lot of the lately Hawkish stance (toward Taiwan and so on) And if that is not true, then someone is behind the scene going after these issue.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> It’s the opposite. It’s clear that Beijing has the iron fist on display. The extraction law is a test ballon with more to come. The HKer are in panic.
> 
> Xi apparently follows the hardliners Wei Fenghe. That is not a good sign. Neither for HK not Taiwan. For nobody in the region. I hope the Cantonese and Taiwanese can hold the ground for a while.
> 
> As for the US, if I was Xi, I would not bet on the PLA.



China is fully prepared for a final confrontation.

China always knows how strong USA is, but USA never knows how strong China is.



KungFuLee said:


> Did I make a personal attack? I merely states a fact that a Canadian would not pay tax to Chinese Government, unless you have some weird Canadian Law that require people who live and work in Canada, like you said you are, have to pay tax for Chinese Government. Then what I say is a fact and not a personal attack.
> 
> I don't really care what you rather see. That's your personal choice, I want to see Emelia Clarke dance naked in front of me, but well, what you want may not always be what you get.



Does it matter at this point?

Most Mainlanders have absolutely extremely bad impression about HKers, whereas USA treats you guys as expendable pawns.

We are getting sick and tired of reasoning with HKers at time, and you guys don't understand our language and mentality. So there is no point of talking to each other.

You decide to put yourselves in the middle of crossfire between China and USA, so be it.

China will make sure HK keep getting suffocated in this proxy war, and there are a lot methods to make the anti-CPC HKers suffering even more.



obj 705A said:


> poor Gordon, white kids used to make fun of him because he is different so he started telling himself "urgh I wish if I was white then I could integrate with them" & thus he became a white worshipper who hates his Chinese identity.



He can't even speak Chinese, but self-proclaimed to be a China expert?

USA for sure will keep getting jeopardized by those bad strategies.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Does it matter at this point?
> 
> Most Mainlanders have absolutely extremely bad impression about HKers, whereas USA treats you guys as expendable pawns.
> 
> We are getting sick and tired of reasoning with HKers at time, and you guys don't understand our language and mentality. So there is no point of talking to each other.
> 
> You decide to put yourself in the middle of crossfire between China and USA, so be it.
> 
> China will make sure HK keep getting suffocated in this proxy war, and there are a lot methods to make the anti-CPC HKers suffering even more.



Stop saying "We" if you are in Canada. A country that have no relationship with China to begin with.

You may think a lot about yourselves, but at the end of the day, let's use your own word, love it or leave it. So by fleeing to Canada, you must not love it then.

I don't decide to put myself between anything, and more so this is not a place for an outsider like you to complaint. Am I making myself clear?

You don't know anything here.

First, you know nothing about me, I went to a Pro-China High School, called Mu Kwang in KT, Kung Lok Road. You cannot get a more Pro-China high school in Hong Kong that that. Secondly I am as pro-China as it was, I marched against Japanese landing in Senkaku, I march against the 2010 Protest, I marched against the 2014 occupation. And even for people like me I am frustrated. 

People like you is like the Mainland Chinese neighbour I have back in Hong Kong. Know nothing but pretend himself like a big star, keep saying "China is how good, how advance" yet he did not realise he, along with the 149 other who get Permanent Residence a day to settle in Hong Kong from China, are the first one to line up for social benefit. If you say China give us some of the best bad brightest, I will say thank you, but the fact to the matter is, those 150 a day? Those aren't rich Chinese, those are even educated. 

If you think you could have threaten me by saying "China will crush Hong Kong, this or that" Let me give you some news pal, it's already done, you are 5 years too late. 

You are who empathized in what the hell is wrong with this protest, people, as arrogance like you, say stuff and do stuff without thinking and then come charging out like you are right and everybody else is wrong. As long as people like you exist in China, I see no peaceful situation in Hong Kong, you may as well send PLA and come kill us all. Don't threaten me, just do it.


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> Stop saying "We" if you are in Canada. A country that have no relationship with China to begin with.
> 
> You may think a lot about yourselves, but at the end of the day, let's use your own word, love it or leave it. So by fleeing to Canada, you must not love it then.
> 
> I don't decide to put myself between anything, and more so this is not a place for an outsider like you to complaint. Am I making myself clear?



Stop switching subject.

It is about Mainlanders vs HKers.

Now both group dislike each other, but do you think who is going to hurt in this populist stalemate?

HKers wanna backstab China by siding with USA, then fine.

But make sure you know the consequence of this treachery.

CPC will not even budge an inch by the manifestation from HK or TW, but it will surely succumb to the sentiment of the Mainlanders.

When most Mainlanders absolutely dislike both HK and TW, do you think CPC will still treat you nicely like before?

This is your choice, so bear with the inevitable consequence.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Stop switching subject.
> 
> It is about Mainlanders vs HKers.
> 
> Now both group dislike each other, but do you think who is going to hurt in this populist stalemate?
> 
> HKers wanna backstab China by siding with USA, then fine.
> 
> But make sure you know the consequence of this treachery.
> 
> CPC will not even budge an inch by the manifestation from HK or TW, but it will surely succumb to the sentiment of the Mainlanders.
> 
> When most Mainlanders absolutely dislike both HK and TW, do you think CPC will still treat you nicely like before?
> 
> This is your choice, so bear with the inevitable consequence.



You are so naïve.

You cannot threaten us if China is ALREADY doing that. Have China ever treated Hong Konger nicely before? When By sending 150 people here a day to settle? By sending 5000 tourist a day so I can't even get a toothpaste in local Wellcome? By taken the foreign reserve of HK so to force us peg our currency to RMB? 

As I said, you know nothing about me nor Hong Kong, and I am graduate to believe you know nothing about China as well.

Have you actaully even been to China and Hong Kong before you make your "un-wrongable" accusation?


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> You are so naïve.
> 
> You cannot threaten us if China is ALREADY doing that. Have China ever treated Hong Konger nicely before? When By sending 150 people here a day to settle? By sending 5000 tourist a day so I can't even get a toothpaste in local Wellcome? By taken the foreign reserve of HK so to force us peg our currency to RMB?
> 
> As I said, you know nothing about me nor Hong Kong, and I am graduate to believe you know nothing about China as well.
> 
> Have you actaully even been to China and Hong Kong before you make your "un-wrongable" accusation?



Most Mainlanders wish this ongoing chaos in HK will never stop.

Let's doing that for a decade, and see how HK will become later.

No Mainlander will ever risk their life by travelling to HK, and cut the water supply and electricity, let's see how tough you guys can still behave.

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## bolo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most Mainlanders wish this ongoing chaos in HK will never stop.


 non Chinese also wish for ongoing violence in Hong Kong. It gives us something to watch everyday.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> *No Mainlander will ever risk their life by travelling to HK*, and cut the water supply and electricity, let's see how tough you guys can still behave.



THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

THANK YOU.


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
> 
> THANK YOU.




Watching HK crumbling into dust is also currently one of our biggest pleasures.

Thank you for your understanding.



bolo said:


> non Chinese also wish for ongoing violence in Hong Kong. It gives us something to watch everyday.



Let's make a countdown to see how long HK will start to match the slumdogs from India.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Watching HK crumbling into dust is also currently one of our biggest pleasures.
> 
> Thank you for your understanding.



Yeah, well, again, you really should worry about the trade war with US, or else let's have a race and see who goes to the bottom first? China or Hong Kong?

Okay? LOL



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Let's make a countdown to see how long HK will start to match the slumdogs from India.



I will do you one better, let's see how many Chinese Cities *CURRENTLY* match the slumdog India? Shall we?

You don't even need to count down HAHA


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> Yeah, well, again, you really should worry about the trade war with US, or else let's have a race and see who goes to the bottom first? China or Hong Kong?
> 
> Okay? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> I will do you one better, let's see how many Chinese Cities *CURRENTLY* match the slumdog India? Shall we?
> 
> You don't even need to count down HAHA



Surely, it is going to be HK.

The US is not going to last in a trade war, and they have hundred of trillions dollar of bubbles waiting to burst.

Their stock market is now on life support, without another round of QE and negative interest rates, it is going to collapse imminently.

HK to join USA in 2019 against CPC is perfectly like someone lived in 1949 to join KMT against CPC.

You are going to repeat the same failed scenario.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Surely, it is going to be HK.
> 
> The US is not going to last in a trade war, and they have hundred of trillions dollar of bubbles waiting to burst.
> 
> Their stock market is now on life support, without another round of QE and negative interest rates, it is going to collapse imminently.
> 
> HK to join USA in 2019 against CPC is perfectly like someone lived in 1949 to join KMT against CPC.
> 
> You are going to repeat the same failed scenario.



I want to know, is English your secondary language? Or am I expect your response to be faster? Are you sure you are not working on one of the Indian Call Center?

The US is going to last in the trade war, it was Yuan who depreciated, not USD, and it would not be that easy to budge that, not with current Chinese asset you can't. You can say what you want but why not put your money where your mouth is, if US dollar is going to collapse, please do send me your money so I will hold those worthless paper for you. How'about that?

Lol, there aren't that many people who will say a collapse of USD would benefit anyone, not especially when China is the largest foreign US bond holder. LOL you may =me laugh.

So what are you wanting for, please send me all your money, if you are expecting a USD collapse.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Surely, it is going to be HK.
> 
> The US is not going to last in a trade war, and they have hundred of trillions dollar of bubbles waiting to burst.
> 
> Their stock market is now on life support, without another round of QE and negative interest rates, it is going to collapse imminently.
> 
> HK to join USA in 2019 against CPC is perfectly like someone lived in 1949 to join KMT against CPC.
> 
> You are going to repeat the same failed scenario.



You are really slow on the response, I am already on my second round after I reply to all your poost and you still not post anything.,

You sure you are not operating in Indian Call Center? Cause you have their response time.

Or did you learn how to type in High School?

Mate, I don't get all day waiting on you.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> I want to know, is English your secondary language? Or am I expect your response to be faster? Are you sure you are not working on one of the Indian Call Center?
> 
> The US is going to last in the trade war, it was Yuan who depreciated, not USD, and it would not be that easy to budge that, not with current Chinese asset you can't. You can say what you want but why not put your money where your mouth is, if US dollar is going to collapse, please do send me your money so I will hold those worthless paper for you. How'about that?
> 
> Lol, there aren't that many people who will say a collapse of USD would benefit anyone, not especially when China is the largest foreign US bond holder. LOL you may =me laugh.
> 
> So what are you wanting for, please send me all your money, if you are expecting a USD collapse.
> 
> 
> 
> You are really slow on the response, I am already on my second round after I reply to all your poost and you still not post anything.,
> 
> You sure you are not operating in Indian Call Center? Cause you have their response time.
> 
> Or did you learn how to type in High School?
> 
> Mate, I don't get all day waiting on you.




According to the old Chinese idiom, you are just a frog living under the well who looks at the sky.

So you are proud to have English as first language? No wonder all HKers give other people an impression that you guys are completely spineless who are also ashamed of your own ethnicity.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> According to the old Chinese idiom, you are just a frog living under the well who looks at the sky.
> 
> So you are proud to have English as first language? No wonder all HKers give other people an impression that you guys are completely spineless who are also ashamed of your own ethnicity.



I am not proud top have English as my first language, in fact, it isn't, but man, can you just type a little bit faster, I am tired and I want to go to bed, I almost felt asleep waiting on your response.

And frog in the well is more applies to you than to me. 

Oh well, I had enough fun today, I need to go to bed, if you want, I will have a go with you again tomorrow, man I just cannot wait for your reply anymore, you type slower than my grandmother, and she's blind.


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> I am not proud top have English as my first language, in fact, it isn't, but man, can you just type a little bit faster, I am tired and I want to go to bed, I almost felt asleep waiting on your response.
> 
> And frog in the well is more applies to you than to me.
> 
> Oh well, I had enough fun today, I need to go to bed, if you want, I will have a go with you again tomorrow, man I just cannot wait for your reply anymore, you type slower than my grandmother, and she's blind.



Many Mainland students become world-class scientists and engineers, while most HK students become a bunch of anti-social rioters.

An insane person always believes the rest of world is insane except himself.

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## bolo

This is fun. Chini VS chini

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## Nilgiri

bolo said:


> This is fun. Chini VS chini



Everybuddy was kungfu fighting! Those kids were fast as lightning!!!!

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## ChineseTiger1986

bolo said:


> This is fun. Chini VS chini



Even Russia is bickering with its little brother Ukraine, so nothing surprised.

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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> When By sending 150 people here a day to settle?


Just 150? that's where the problem lies, 1 million a day will totally solve the problem in a week, easy and fast.

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## bolo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even Russia is bickering with its little brother Ukraine, so nothing surprised.


Russia has a strong man running the show and a dedicated team assembled by Putin.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

*We Support the Stand of Chinese Party and Government to Defend Its Territorial Integrity, Political Stability and Socialism*


Aug. 14, Juche 108 (2019) Wednesday

Demonstrations which started in Hong Kong of China in June with the revision of law as a momentum have continued over two months, growing extremely violent.

The riotous moves of dishonest elements have become increasingly subversive as the days go by, which clearly shows who is at the bottom of the moves and what purpose they seek.

To take measure for internal affairs belongs to the sovereignty of relevant country.

But the Western forces are obtrusively interfering in China’s internal affair to add fuel to the reckless moves of the dishonest elements, saying this or that.

The party and government of China have already announced its firm stand not to remain an on-looker to the crisis in Hong Kong, after clarifying the principle that no country, organization and individual have the right to meddle in the issue of Hong Kong and it should be settled in conformity with the desire of the Chinese people as it belongs to the domestic affairs of China from A to Z.

China has all sorts of methods and powerful forces enough to quickly quell every upheaval according to the rules of its main law.

The DPRK fully supports all measures taken by the Chinese party and government to invariably maintain the line of “one country and two systems” and firmly defend its territorial integrity, political stability and socialism.

Ri Hak Nam

http://web.archive.org/web/20190818...p?strPageID=SF01_02_01&newsID=2019-08-14-0008
http://archive.fo/DVE4F











Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...9/?temp_hash=886a8c3db40055848f83bf9e51e8b9d7
https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=03126989592f2bbd42b687bb0590ae9e&oe=5CDBD7AA
February 9 at 12:39 AM · Tsim Sha Tsui, Hong Kong
https://www.facebook.com/KimJongUnLookAlike/photos/pb.361346080650226.-2207520000.1550870098./2020405221410962/?type=3&eid=ARBqYN_I2mQgnRDK7J7Kch_GPSMNefGvVbrZYWbmYyh6cwvzS_p9HhupLUutPMVz2IO8OKIeDjwfGFoN



▲ Supreme Leader spotted with Rody!







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...0/?temp_hash=886a8c3db40055848f83bf9e51e8b9d7
https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=771d9b6e33efe80dcac4e3ec568e02c1&oe=5CDECA9F
February 7 at 7:17 AM · Sha Tin, Hong Kong
https://www.facebook.com/KimJongUnLookAlike/photos/pb.361346080650226.-2207520000.1550870098./2017976918320459/?type=3&eid=ARD1rsDOdOfuTznBW2Xa5wZ4PgwzsIRN4u7qqL0-Z19j2fBKdxS6YLGfe7ySHMxkRUXi_TuzWFH-enjj



▲ Supreme Leader spotted with Digong!

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## Viet

Mista said:


> Does he even have the power to influence Xi? In China's political system, power is vested in the party's position rather than the state's position. I would imagine that someone like Wang Qishan or Wang Yang in the Standing Committee to be far more powerful and influential than Wei.
> 
> Last year when I was serving in the military the Minister of Defense of China visited my camp, and I don't remember any Singaporean Minister accompanying him or any grand welcome. There's no media reporting as well. He's probably someone relatively unimportant in China.
> 
> You compare this to someone like Wang Qishan:
> https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dip...re-pm-lee-hsien-loong-surprise-meeting-chinas


Wang Qishan is a man on retirement trip. Too old for a game that can last years. He is not a military man either. The current escalation is a festive meal for a military hardliner as Wei Fenghe. Certainly it’s Xi that makes the decision but he has his inner circle with advisers he listens to.

Xi sits as chairman in the central military commission. Wei as PLA general sits next to him. The PLA has many generals that raised in the importance thanks to their service in the war against Vietnam in the 1970 - 80. They believe to military might, cannon is the answer.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Wang Qishan is a man on retirement trip. Too old for a game that can last years. He is not a military man either. The current escalation is a festive meal for a military hardliner as Wei Fenghe. Certainly it’s Xi that makes the decision but he has his inner circle with advisers he listens to.
> 
> Xi sits as chairman in the central military commission. Wei as PLA general sits next to him. The PLA has many generals that raised in the importance thanks to their service in the war against Vietnam in the 1970 - 80. They believe to military might, cannon is the answer.



Do you remember our old friend Martian?

He was absolutely right, China is now rapidly building up its nuclear force with several thousands most advanced nukes.

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/stratcom-china-rapidly-building-up-nuclear-forces/

Xi is now surrounded by the military hawks, and it is also true that the military hawks are now gaining an upper hand within CPC.

Same applied for other powerhouses like USA and Russia.

The world is not a safe place anymore.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## KungFuLee

beijingwalker said:


> Just 150? that's where the problem lies, 1 million a day will totally solve the problem in a week, easy and fast.



150 a day. That's 4500 a months, that's ~50000 a year, That an extra half of the population of Hong Kong in 30 years. How about the world pipe in half of Chinese total population to China in 30 years, would you still be this smug?

And that is before the Illegal, The Tourist and the Migration Scheme from all around the world, I know nobody are migrating to China, but that does not mean it give you right to release your population to someone else.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Many Mainland students become world-class scientists and engineers, while most HK students become a bunch of anti-social rioters.
> 
> An insane person always believes the rest of world is insane except himself.



https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscr...k=ee213eeb542496bbe0add892858b5154-1566109080

Yeah, mainland student become Daigou in Australia. Buying off milk powder and send home, is this any sort of "Scientific Achievement" that with all the scientist and engineer, China can't still get milk powder formula right? Well, maybe because milk powder is not exactly rocket science, LOL


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> 150 a day. That's 4500 a months, that's ~50000 a year, That an extra half of the population of Hong Kong in 30 years. How about the world pipe in half of Chinese total population to China in 30 years, would you still be this smug?
> 
> And that is before the Illegal, The Tourist and the Migration Scheme from all around the world, I know nobody are migrating to China, but that does not mean it give you right to release your population to someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/international-students-working-as-daigou-selling-australian-products-at-inflated-prices-overseas/news-story/b6786dbe722fca53f85e9f5d85e7eb35&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&nk=ee213eeb542496bbe0add892858b5154-1566109080
> 
> Yeah, mainland student become Daigou in Australia. Buying off milk powder and send home, is this any sort of "Scientific Achievement" that with all the scientist and engineer, China can't still get milk powder formula right? Well, maybe because milk powder is not exactly rocket science, LOL



You guys have backfired badly this time.

Just check the comments about this video from YouTube. Many of them were westerners.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You guys have backfired badly this time.
> 
> Just check the comments about this video from YouTube. Many of them were westerners.



You do know both side (Pro-Hong Kong and Pro-China) have jammed the Airport. Right? 

I am not going to say anything else, but well.


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## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> You do know both side (Pro-Hong Kong and Pro-China) have jammed the Airport. Right?
> 
> I am not going to say anything else, but well.



Oops, you have just made a bad impression in front of your white masters, and I see you are getting nervous this time.

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## KungFuLee

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Oops, you have just made a bad impression in front of your white masters, and I see you are getting nervous this time.



If you have to ask, I think putting out the white people card is a sign of losing an argument, and who actually did that? You or me?

LOL. I especially like when you say "White Master". Your Queen is not Xi, it's Queen Elizabeth, now go worship your queen and your royal body lol. Must have tore you apart when you are forced to sing God Save The Queen in any school assembly, innit?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

KungFuLee said:


> If you have to ask, I think putting out the white people card is a sign of losing an argument, and who actually did that? You or me?
> 
> LOL. I especially like when you say "White Master". Your Queen is not Xi, it's Queen Elizabeth, now go worship your queen and your royal body lol. Must have tore you apart when you are forced to sing God Save The Queen in any school assembly, innit?



Only HKers are bunch of down syndrome worshippers of Anglo-Saxons. This is well known among the Chinese community, and I don’t even need to argue this anymore with a stupid denier like you.

Even your judicial system is being controlled by those Anglo guys, what a joke. Perhaps your ancestors had already been tamed as a bunch of house slaves for your Anglo masters.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you remember our old friend Martian?
> 
> He was absolutely right, China is now rapidly building up its nuclear force with several thousands most advanced nukes.
> 
> https://freebeacon.com/national-security/stratcom-china-rapidly-building-up-nuclear-forces/
> 
> Xi is now surrounded by the military hawks, and it is also true that the military hawks are now gaining an upper hand within CPC.
> 
> Same applied for other powerhouses like USA and Russia.
> 
> The world is not a safe place anymore.


How can I forget our friend Martian. His bellicose rhetoric was legendary. He once promoted preemptive strike on Vietnam by nuclear blasts.


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## beijingwalker

KungFuLee said:


> 150 a day. That's 4500 a months, that's ~50000 a year, That an extra half of the population of Hong Kong in 30 years. How about the world pipe in half of Chinese total population to China in 30 years, would you still be this smug?
> 
> And that is before the Illegal, The Tourist and the Migration Scheme from all around the world, I know nobody are migrating to China, but that does not mean it give you right to release your population to someone else.


Hong kong is part of China, where are not releasing our population to *someone else*, it's within China's jurisdiction to do so if she wants, Hong kong can be merged into Shenzhen in the near future and become a satelite city of Shenzhen, eventually this will happen anyway, China doesn't need two separate mega cities next to each other, merger is a sure thing.

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## beijingwalker

*Melbourne: protestors in support of Hong Kong heavily outnumbered by pro-China*

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## beijingwalker

*Anti-Extradition Protest & Hong Kong Part of China Rally in Vancouver *

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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> You do know both side (Pro-Hong Kong and Pro-China) have jammed the Airport. Right?
> 
> I am not going to say anything else, but well.


You don't event know what is the difference between "to propose" and "to make", now you don't know who jammed the airport by watching the clip. If you don't know these, who trust you? Why are still here to show "your understanding", lying and misleading to people? protest on the street now enough for you?

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## Rasengan

KungFuLee said:


> 150 a day. That's 4500 a months, that's ~50000 a year, That an extra half of the population of Hong Kong in 30 years. How about the world pipe in half of Chinese total population to China in 30 years, would you still be this smug?
> 
> And that is before the Illegal, The Tourist and the Migration Scheme from all around the world, I know nobody are migrating to China, but that does not mean it give you right to release your population to someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/international-students-working-as-daigou-selling-australian-products-at-inflated-prices-overseas/news-story/b6786dbe722fca53f85e9f5d85e7eb35&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&nk=ee213eeb542496bbe0add892858b5154-1566109080
> 
> Yeah, mainland student become Daigou in Australia. Buying off milk powder and send home, is this any sort of "Scientific Achievement" that with all the scientist and engineer, China can't still get milk powder formula right? Well, maybe because milk powder is not exactly rocket science, LOL




From my experience, the migration problem is the biggest issue residing in Hong Kong. They should've of put a more robust strict cap on migration.


----------



## Mista

*Instability in Hong Kong a problem for everyone, including Singapore: Shanmugam
*
SINGAPORE - There is no profit in having instability in Hong Kong, said Law and Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam, adding that Singapore benefits from stability across the region, including the Chinese territory.

Giving his take in a recent interview on the ongoing protests over a controversial extradition Bill, Mr Shanmugam said: "There is some superficial talk 'Oh you know, Singapore benefits'. I don't believe that. We benefit from stability across the region, including Hong Kong.

"If China does well, Hong Kong does well, the region does well, we do well. There's no profit in seeing instability. And if Hong Kong is at odds with China, it's a problem for everyone, including us."

Mr Shanmugam was making these remarks in an interview last week with Hong Kong broadsheet South China Morning Post and Chinese-language daily Lianhe Zaobao.

Protests began four months ago, when Hong Kong's government mooted a controversial Bill - now suspended - that would allow the authorities to extradite people to countries it has no formal extradition agreements with, including mainland China.

The protesters subsequently made five demands of Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam, including universal suffrage and the unconditional release of all arrested protesters.

The initially peaceful demonstrations subsequently turned violent, with some protesters breaking into the Legislative Council building. Protesters have also blocked roads and disrupted the rail network, with hundreds of people joining a peaceful sit-in protest at the airport.

Asked later if Singapore has seen increased interest among people to move assets or company headquarters from Hong Kong as a result of the protests, Mr Shanmugam said he does not see this happening in the short term.

"Hong Kong has very deep strengths. Its financial system, its stock exchange, its valuable position as an outpost for China and the nearness to China are all incredible advantages that any investor will take into account and consider," he said, according to a transcript posted on the Ministry of Law's website on Sunday (Aug 11).

"Unless people become pessimistic about China, I don't see immediate calculations being made by serious investors."

He added perceptions may change if the situation remains unresolved for a long time, with serious consequences for Hong Kong. "But I think the depth of Hong Kong's strengths are such that we are not at that stage," he said.

Mr Shanmugam said Singapore does not have the ability to weather a similar crisis, which would be bad for the country's economy.

"Hong Kong has the huge advantage of China's support. Singapore has no one to support it," he added.

Many Singaporeans consider themselves fortunate because the same things are not happening here, said Mr Shanmugam. "That is probably the significant majority of Singaporeans," he said.

He added that Singaporeans do not necessarily think that Hong Kong is in deep trouble and that he would not agree that Hong Kong is in a mess now.

"The general impression that Singaporeans would have is that we are glad this is not happening here, because we are different from Hong Kong. We are different from Hong Kong because we don't have the same advantages that Hong Kong has. Hong Kong can weather it. Singapore may not be able to weather it," said Mr Shanmugam.

"I think that's the perception of Singaporeans, not so much of Hong Kong is in a mess. I won't agree that Hong Kong is in a mess."

Mr Shanmugam also noted that the current situation in Hong Kong can be understood at several different levels.

At the most basic level, there is a breakdown of law and order which any government will have to deal with, he said, highlighting incidents such as the airport sit-ins, vandalised police stations, and the disruption of train services.

The Hong Kong government must also deal with underlying causes of the protests, one of which is meeting the material aspirations of young people.

"I'm sure the Hong Kong government is aware of these aspirations and the issues, and will look for solutions. People's aspirations need to be met. Solutions need to be found. But, I will add, the solutions cannot be found if serious disruptions like these continue," he said.

At the same time, some protesters appear to be taking an ideological stance, hoping to see changes in the structure of government, though Hong Kong is part of China.

"Beijing will expect Hong Kong to adapt to the political structure that prevails in China. Adapt, not adopt," said Mr Shanmugam.

"Some of the protesters seem to think that China will allow a very different system in Hong Kong. That is wishful thinking replacing reality."

On how Chinese leaders will look at the ongoing development, Mr Shanmugam said his view, based on history, past events, and looking at their statements, is that they will say this is ultimately aimed at the Chinese Communist Party's rule in China.

"Why do I say it? You sing the US (United States) National Anthem, you speak in Mandarin and tell the Chinese tourists to go back and take these ideas back to China.

"The leaders could think Hong Kong is just the start, for something that some people want to hope to start in the rest of China," said Mr Shanmugam, adding that he is looking at the issue from the outside.

Ideology aside, the facts are that China's system selects for a very competent government which has lifted more than 500 million people out of poverty over the last 35 years, he pointed out.

"Not enough credit is given for that. It's a huge achievement. Could that have been achieved under any of the other system?" he said. "Is there a political system that can do better for the people of China, compared to the current system? Which one? Name one."

Mr Shanmugam added: "Ideology is important. But it must square with reality."

He was also asked if the best-case scenario is to maintain the "one country two systems" model as originally promised which offers Hong Kong autonomy for 50 years in all affairs except defence and foreign affairs.

"That's what is under the treaty. I'm not an expert. If you ask me, 'one country two systems' requires a sensible approach. The current situation is challenging China, and I'm not sure Chinese leaders will or can accept that," said Mr Shanmugam.

His personal view - and not that of the Singapore Government - is that he is worried for Hong Kong.

"Because there's no easy way forward when people are in such entrenched positions. To go forward is going to need compromise and a clear approach that deals with the problem," he said, adding that these include both political and socio-economic issues.

"And quite importantly, to solve problems, Hong Kong needs a supportive China, and the solutions need to work for both Hong Kong and China."

https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...em-for-everyone-including-singapore-shanmugam

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## Viva_Viet

VN is gonna drill oil Inside CN nine dash lines claims, and those Cnese in mainland,HK,TW keep quacking loundly haha.

Nice, keep quacking loudly and keep making a bigger chaos, we ( VN-Russia-JP) also having fun sucking oil in CN nine dash lines claim. Eveyone happy hehehe 

Let me remind u guys again, Joshua Wong's father is Vnese hehehe


----------



## Pepsi Cola

Viva_Viet said:


> VN is gonna drill oil Inside CN nine dash lines claims, and those Cnese in mainland,HK,TW keep quacking loundly haha.
> 
> Nice, keep quacking loudly and keep making a bigger chaos, we ( VN-Russia-JP) also having fun sucking oil in CN nine dash lines claim. Eveyone happy hehehe
> 
> Let me remind u guys again, Joshua Wong's father is Vnese hehehe



Thanks for the tip. Now I know why this piece of shit is such a traitor. Fake Chinese.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Protests enter 11th week





SCMP






Ruptly



KungFuLee said:


> If you have to ask, I think putting out the white people card is a sign of losing an argument, and who actually did that? You or me?
> 
> LOL. I especially like when you say "White Master". Your Queen is not Xi, it's Queen Elizabeth, now go worship your queen and your royal body lol. Must have tore you apart when you are forced to sing God Save The Queen in any school assembly, innit?



Careful the B*rg Collective is going to gang up on you and attack you from all sides.

I forgot to fill you in on Rule #2

1) the Israeli Zionists discovered the Americas and colonized it.
2) Anybody who does not fall in line with the thoughts of the Collective is an *ENEMY* and will be assimilated by force or destroyed. Soon the name calling will commence.

As for "white worship"...the Communist Manifesto was written by whom?? 








Who are the real "white worshippers"


----------



## beijingwalker

Hamartia Antidote said:


> As for "white worship"...the Communist Manifesto was written by whom??
> View attachment 574708
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the real "white worshippers"


You can claim Xi is a Jew worshipper but he just say it to have legitimate right to rule. Very few Chinese are communists and among communist members very few truly believe Marxism. Politicians around the world don't truly believe what they say, China is no exception.

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## Beast

Mista said:


> *Instability in Hong Kong a problem for everyone, including Singapore: Shanmugam*
> 
> SINGAPORE - There is no profit in having instability in Hong Kong, said Law and Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam, adding that Singapore benefits from stability across the region, including the Chinese territory.
> 
> Giving his take in a recent interview on the ongoing protests over a controversial extradition Bill, Mr Shanmugam said: "There is some superficial talk 'Oh you know, Singapore benefits'. I don't believe that. We benefit from stability across the region, including Hong Kong.
> 
> "If China does well, Hong Kong does well, the region does well, we do well. There's no profit in seeing instability. And if Hong Kong is at odds with China, it's a problem for everyone, including us."
> 
> Mr Shanmugam was making these remarks in an interview last week with Hong Kong broadsheet South China Morning Post and Chinese-language daily Lianhe Zaobao.
> 
> Protests began four months ago, when Hong Kong's government mooted a controversial Bill - now suspended - that would allow the authorities to extradite people to countries it has no formal extradition agreements with, including mainland China.
> 
> The protesters subsequently made five demands of Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam, including universal suffrage and the unconditional release of all arrested protesters.
> 
> The initially peaceful demonstrations subsequently turned violent, with some protesters breaking into the Legislative Council building. Protesters have also blocked roads and disrupted the rail network, with hundreds of people joining a peaceful sit-in protest at the airport.
> 
> Asked later if Singapore has seen increased interest among people to move assets or company headquarters from Hong Kong as a result of the protests, Mr Shanmugam said he does not see this happening in the short term.
> 
> "Hong Kong has very deep strengths. Its financial system, its stock exchange, its valuable position as an outpost for China and the nearness to China are all incredible advantages that any investor will take into account and consider," he said, according to a transcript posted on the Ministry of Law's website on Sunday (Aug 11).
> 
> "Unless people become pessimistic about China, I don't see immediate calculations being made by serious investors."
> 
> He added perceptions may change if the situation remains unresolved for a long time, with serious consequences for Hong Kong. "But I think the depth of Hong Kong's strengths are such that we are not at that stage," he said.
> 
> Mr Shanmugam said Singapore does not have the ability to weather a similar crisis, which would be bad for the country's economy.
> 
> "Hong Kong has the huge advantage of China's support. Singapore has no one to support it," he added.
> 
> Many Singaporeans consider themselves fortunate because the same things are not happening here, said Mr Shanmugam. "That is probably the significant majority of Singaporeans," he said.
> 
> He added that Singaporeans do not necessarily think that Hong Kong is in deep trouble and that he would not agree that Hong Kong is in a mess now.
> 
> "The general impression that Singaporeans would have is that we are glad this is not happening here, because we are different from Hong Kong. We are different from Hong Kong because we don't have the same advantages that Hong Kong has. Hong Kong can weather it. Singapore may not be able to weather it," said Mr Shanmugam.
> 
> "I think that's the perception of Singaporeans, not so much of Hong Kong is in a mess. I won't agree that Hong Kong is in a mess."
> 
> Mr Shanmugam also noted that the current situation in Hong Kong can be understood at several different levels.
> 
> At the most basic level, there is a breakdown of law and order which any government will have to deal with, he said, highlighting incidents such as the airport sit-ins, vandalised police stations, and the disruption of train services.
> 
> The Hong Kong government must also deal with underlying causes of the protests, one of which is meeting the material aspirations of young people.
> 
> "I'm sure the Hong Kong government is aware of these aspirations and the issues, and will look for solutions. People's aspirations need to be met. Solutions need to be found. But, I will add, the solutions cannot be found if serious disruptions like these continue," he said.
> 
> At the same time, some protesters appear to be taking an ideological stance, hoping to see changes in the structure of government, though Hong Kong is part of China.
> 
> "Beijing will expect Hong Kong to adapt to the political structure that prevails in China. Adapt, not adopt," said Mr Shanmugam.
> 
> "Some of the protesters seem to think that China will allow a very different system in Hong Kong. That is wishful thinking replacing reality."
> 
> On how Chinese leaders will look at the ongoing development, Mr Shanmugam said his view, based on history, past events, and looking at their statements, is that they will say this is ultimately aimed at the Chinese Communist Party's rule in China.
> 
> "Why do I say it? You sing the US (United States) National Anthem, you speak in Mandarin and tell the Chinese tourists to go back and take these ideas back to China.
> 
> "The leaders could think Hong Kong is just the start, for something that some people want to hope to start in the rest of China," said Mr Shanmugam, adding that he is looking at the issue from the outside.
> 
> Ideology aside, the facts are that China's system selects for a very competent government which has lifted more than 500 million people out of poverty over the last 35 years, he pointed out.
> 
> "Not enough credit is given for that. It's a huge achievement. Could that have been achieved under any of the other system?" he said. "Is there a political system that can do better for the people of China, compared to the current system? Which one? Name one."
> 
> Mr Shanmugam added: "Ideology is important. But it must square with reality."
> 
> He was also asked if the best-case scenario is to maintain the "one country two systems" model as originally promised which offers Hong Kong autonomy for 50 years in all affairs except defence and foreign affairs.
> 
> "That's what is under the treaty. I'm not an expert. If you ask me, 'one country two systems' requires a sensible approach. The current situation is challenging China, and I'm not sure Chinese leaders will or can accept that," said Mr Shanmugam.
> 
> His personal view - and not that of the Singapore Government - is that he is worried for Hong Kong.
> 
> "Because there's no easy way forward when people are in such entrenched positions. To go forward is going to need compromise and a clear approach that deals with the problem," he said, adding that these include both political and socio-economic issues.
> 
> "And quite importantly, to solve problems, Hong Kong needs a supportive China, and the solutions need to work for both Hong Kong and China."
> 
> https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...em-for-everyone-including-singapore-shanmugam


Singapore has stability becos they do not allow protest and illegal gathering. Hong Kong shall follow Singapore model and ban protest and not allowing gathering to get out of hands.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

*Germs anti-Islam law (i.e. anti burka), applied to HKer!!!*






17 Aug 2019


The Germany Police asked one Hongkonger to take off his mask when Hongkongers rally in support of Hongkong protest. Usually Hongkong protesters all wear black mask in Hongkong.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162920649674805248

https://twitter.com/Liam_Stone18/status/1162920649674805248​

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## Galactic Penguin SST

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Who are the real "white worshippers"



Viva_Viet is one of these.




Viva_Viet said:


> Nice, keep quacking loudly and keep making a bigger chaos, we ( VN-*Russia*-JP) also having fun sucking oil in CN nine dash lines claim. Eveyone happy hehehe




Poor Viva-Viet still slave of the Slavs!
Open your eyes, your Russia colonial master is only treating you as a doormat!





http://web.archive.org/web/20190808...N/2019/08/07/AEN20190807007400315_02_i_P4.jpg ; https://archive.fo/jMJVq/e6eb7f1422bd2050ae59fe6bdf009e10b335ee6b.jpg 
▲ 1. Russian unmasked.



Same applies to the U.S. and Euro masters you worship!

*CCTV video of Indochinese treated as doormat by natives in European little Saigon!*





youtube.com/watch?v=xFlTP2KkdoY ; http://www.leparisien.fr/val-de-mar...a-la-videosurveillance-18-07-2019-8119500.php 
▲ 3. Ultraviolent aggression of an Asian Indochinese (L’agression ultraviolente d’une Asiatique résolue grâce à la vidéosurveillance). Published on Jul 18, 2019

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## gangsta_rap

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Protests enter 11th week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCMP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruptly
> 
> 
> 
> Careful the B*rg Collective is going to gang up on you and attack you from all sides.
> 
> I forgot to fill you in on Rule #2
> 
> 1) the Israeli Zionists discovered the Americas and colonized it.
> 2) Anybody who does not fall in line with the thoughts of the Collective is an *ENEMY* and will be assimilated by force or destroyed. Soon the name calling will commence.
> 
> As for "white worship"...the Communist Manifesto was written by whom??
> View attachment 574708
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the real "white worshippers"


you better worry about your own country lol. Trump has just accelerated the radical left. Das Kapital and Marxist theory are already components of North American schooling (From what I have observed - I kid you not). In a few decades even the US will give in to socialism.






Besides it'll be good for you folks. Working in a collective farm might reverse the american obesity problem.

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## lcloo

GIANTsasquatch said:


> you better worry about your own country lol. Trump has just accelerated the radical left. Das Kapital and Marxist theory are already components of North American schooling (From what I have observed - I kid you not). In a few decades even the US will give in to socialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides it'll be good for you folks. Working in a collective farm might reverse the american obesity problem.


When the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, that is going to happen.

Top 1% of Americans hold 20% of American wealth $4,116 Billion of 2018 GDP, or $1.37 million per person.

9% of Americans hold 65% of American wealth. $13,377 Billion of 2018 GDP, or $450,000 per person.

40% Americans hold around 13% of American wealth $2,675 Billion of 2018 GDP or $20,270 per person, and 

bottom 50% holds less than 2% of American wealth $412 Billion of 2018 GDP, $2,500 per person.

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## Mista

Beast said:


> Singapore has stability becos they do not allow protest and illegal gathering. Hong Kong shall follow Singapore model and ban protest and not allowing gathering to get out of hands.



Singapore actually has protests, just that you need a permit and it's confined to an area.








beijingwalker said:


> You can claim Xi is a Jew worshipper but he just say it to have legitimate right to rule. Very few Chinese are communists and among communist members very few truly believe Marxism. Politicians around the world don't truly believe what they say, China is no exception.



I used to think he's paying lip service to strengthen his rule, but now I'm not too sure whether he truly leans towards Marxist ideals. I mean I don't remember previous leaders talking about 'purging ideological impurities in the party' or emphasizing Marxism as much as he do to strengthen their rule. He's shown to be far more ideological than Hu or Jiang for sure. 



> For sure, few of China’s near 90 million party members are true believers of Marxism. Many of them joined the ruling party to get a golden passport to power and privilege, or they were just seeking a symbol of success. That is why all Xi’s predecessors – Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao – showed little enthusiasm while paying lip service to communist orthodoxies that they themselves might not have believed.
> 
> However, Xi is now leading a campaign to attach communist orthodoxies to his own dogma.
> 
> Since he came to power, he has directed more resources to promote and foster Marxist doctrine and Maoist traditions.
> 
> Xi also wants to make China the global hub of Marxism, more than two decades after the worldwide demise of socialism. Driven by him, China went all-out with much celebratory fanfare to mark Marx’s 200th birthday,
> which fell on May 5.
> 
> The question is whether Xi is really dedicated to socialism and a believer in Marxism, Leninism and Maoist thought, or is he just using campaigns to promote his own political theory and shape his legacy?



https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opin...ould-karl-marx-recognise-chinas-new-communism


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## macnurv

Viva_Viet said:


> VN is gonna drill oil Inside CN nine dash lines claims, and those Cnese in mainland,HK,TW keep quacking loundly haha.
> 
> Nice, keep quacking loudly and keep making a bigger chaos, we ( VN-Russia-JP) also having fun sucking oil in CN nine dash lines claim. Eveyone happy hehehe
> 
> Let me remind u guys again, Joshua Wong's father is Vnese hehehe



Leave it to you to butt in Vietnam in every issue, how insecure you really are?



Hamartia Antidote said:


> Protests enter 11th week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCMP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruptly
> 
> 
> 
> Careful the B*rg Collective is going to gang up on you and attack you from all sides.
> 
> I forgot to fill you in on Rule #2
> 
> 1) the Israeli Zionists discovered the Americas and colonized it.
> 2) Anybody who does not fall in line with the thoughts of the Collective is an *ENEMY* and will be assimilated by force or destroyed. Soon the name calling will commence.
> 
> As for "white worship"...the Communist Manifesto was written by whom??
> View attachment 574708
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the real "white worshippers"



And the age old time tested trope of Antisemitism raises its head again.
Tell me how familiar you are with Marxism or the its ideology. Forget about the man Karl Marx? Your knowledge doesnt extend beyond quick google searches and media talking points. Soviet Union was antithesis to everything what Marx stood for.

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## Viva_Viet

macnurv said:


> Leave it to you to butt in Vietnam in every issue, how insecure you really are?
> 
> 
> .


7
What wrong wt u ?? Joshua wong's father is Vnese and all Vnese support Joshua to become the King of HK. Thats why we r on this thread .

Stop showing how low ur IQ is when talking abt HK protest.

-------
*HK Activist Joshua Wong is Actually A Refugee from Vietnam*

Joshua Wong’s parents very likely were Vietcongs that invaded Kampuchea, after knowing they can never proceed to Thailand, they all run road to HK
https://sgtalk.org/mybb/Thread-HK-Activist-Joshua-Wong-is-Actually-A-Refugee-from-Vietnam


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## macnurv

Viva_Viet said:


> 7
> What wrong wt u ?? Joshua wong's father is Vnese and all Vnese support Joshua to become the King of HK. Thats why we r on this thread .
> 
> Stop showing how low ur IQ is when talking abt HK protest.
> 
> -------
> *HK Activist Joshua Wong is Actually A Refugee from Vietnam*
> 
> Joshua Wong’s parents very likely were Vietcongs that invaded Kampuchea, after knowing they can never proceed to Thailand, they all run road to HK
> https://sgtalk.org/mybb/Thread-HK-Activist-Joshua-Wong-is-Actually-A-Refugee-from-Vietnam



Do you understand english language? I doubt it. let me repeat, stop bringing Vietnam into every issue related with China. Go and make some sneakers that Chinese wont be making anymore you twit.

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## Viva_Viet

macnurv said:


> Do you understand english language? I doubt it. let me repeat, stop bringing Vietnam into every issue related with China. Go and make some sneakers that Chinese wont be making anymore you twit.


Thats not ur matter, go and clean some dishes in CN restaurant dude.

No one give a cheap care to u.my last reply .u r in my ignore list .


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## macnurv

Viva_Viet said:


> Thats not ur matter, go and clean some dishes in CN restaurant dude.
> 
> No one give a cheap care to u.my last reply .u r in my ignore list .


And the idiot goes full retard, you are too stupid to even come up with a proper stereotype.

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## lcloo

The Black Shirt gang masterminds reporting to their Headmaster in USA.

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## Viva_Viet

lcloo said:


> The Black Shirt gang masterminds reporting to their Headmaster in USA.


They will be the kings of CN ( plus Joshua wong) when US win the trade war


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## Nan Yang

So what happened to this young girl ? 
Why no news ?






*Hong Kong authorities still searching for answers over young woman’s brutal eye injury at protest outside Tsim Sha Tsui police station*

Woman appears to have been released from hospital but her exact condition – and cause of injury – remain unknown
Police urge anyone with information to come forward

However, another video purportedly recorded that night has emerged that appears to show a protester launching a projectile with a catapult-like device in the same area at around the same time. 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...uthorities-still-searching-answers-over-young

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## vi-va

Nan Yang said:


> So what happened to this young girl ?
> Why no news ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hong Kong authorities still searching for answers over young woman’s brutal eye injury at protest outside Tsim Sha Tsui police station*
> 
> Woman appears to have been released from hospital but her exact condition – and cause of injury – remain unknown
> Police urge anyone with information to come forward
> 
> However, another video purportedly recorded that night has emerged that appears to show a protester launching a projectile with a catapult-like device in the same area at around the same time.
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...uthorities-still-searching-answers-over-young


Her brother admitted that protester did that. She didn't dare to provide the medical report. 

The medical report should easily identify Bean bag round.

It's old color revolution tricks. First incite women or children to provoke police, and then use those injuries to anger more protesters, so that the police have to constrain more due to political pressure.



viva_zhao said:


> Her brother admitted that protester did that. She didn't dare to provide the medical report.
> 
> The medical report should easily identify Bean bag round.
> 
> It's old color revolution tricks. First incite women or children to provoke police, and then use those injuries to anger more protesters, so that the police have to constrain more due to political pressure.


Also, color revolution in Ukraine in 2014, hired shooters shoot hundreds of protesters and slander the police, create chaos and more riots. CIA money well spent.

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## Nan Yang

Found a little bit more news.

Quote
In an incident when a female protester was shot in the eye near Tsim Sha Tsui during an illegal protest last weekend, without concrete evidence, some media outlets immediately claimed she was hurt by police. However it was revealed later that she was shot by a ball bearing, an item not used by the police but by rioters.
End Quote

One police man was also similarly injured.

Quote
Wong Ka-lun, police officer of emergency unit of Kowloon East, sustained the most serious injury in his career as a police officer during a law enforcement operation on August 5 with one teeth being broken by ball bearing shot by rioter with slingshot.

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## Menthol

I don't read HK media.

But I heard they are one-sided toward protesters but pretending to be fair by quoting a bit of police side opinion.

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## Mista

*Hong Kong billionaire tycoons call for end to protests as unrest affects their profits*

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...-tire-of-protests-as-they-lose-money/11426568

Hong Kong's property tycoons are hurting, the share market is tanking and the tourism sector has taken a beating as the pro-democracy movement continues to strangle the city.

*Key points:*

Hong Kong's richest person Li Ka-shing has called for an end to the protests
The 10 richest people in Hong Kong have lost billions since the protests began in June
Hong Kong's economy grew at its slowest annual pace since 2008 in the second quarter
While the US-China trade war has fuelled some of the losses, weeks of violent protests have wreaked havoc for investor sentiment and caused huge reputational damage for the semi-autonomous territory as an economic powerhouse.

As the protest movement enters its 11th week with no signs of slowing down, analysts are predicting the financial hub is barrelling towards recession.

Now the city's ultra-rich are calling for the protests to end.

The net worth of the 10 wealthiest tycoons, who derive their fortune from Hong Kong-listed companies, has shed billions since the protests started in June, according to the Bloomberg Billionaire's Index.

Hong Kong's richest person, 91-year-old business magnate Li Ka-shing, has become the latest billionaire to join the chorus speaking out.

Mr Li, nicknamed 'Superman' in Hong Kong, took out full-page ads in most local newspapers, urging a halt to the unrest "in the name of love".

It featured the Chinese word for "violence" with a red cross through it, flanked by slogans about loving China and loving Hong Kong.

The entrepreneur, who is worth approximately $39 billion, signed the ad with "from a Hong Kong resident, Li Ka-shing".

*'In Hong Kong, property tycoons control the land'*
As the protest movement drags on, there are concerns the property sector, which is a linchpin of the local economy, could be in danger.

Controlled by the mega-wealthy, Hong Kong is home to the most expensive real estate in the world, making it out of reach of many of its citizens.

On average, a nano apartment — the size of a parking spot — costs about $1,475 per month to rent.

Most of the protesters taking to the streets are university students and young professionals.

They hold little hope of ever being able to afford their own home, so hitting the rich and powerful has become an aim of the movement.

"In Hong Kong, the property tycoons control the land supply," Shanghai-based analyst Andy Xie said.

Whether the billionaires of Hong Kong will do Beijing's bidding remains to be seen.

"They think these tycoons will keep the peace in Hong Kong, which is not their objective. Their objective is to make as much money as possible, as quickly as possible", Mr Xie said.

As their profits start to dive, more Hong Kong property magnates are criticising the protest movement.

Swire Pacific, one of Hong Kong's richest family-owned business empires, has issued a strongly worded statement condemning "illegal activities and violent behaviour," throwing its support behind the city's beleaguered government.

The family business, which dates back more than 200 years, is the largest shareholder in Cathay Pacific, owns luxury hotels, office towers and high-end shopping malls throughout the city.

Sun Hung Kai Properties, which is controlled by Asia's third-richest family, the Kwoks, has also called for the violence to stop and for social order to be restored.

Property tycoon, Peter Woo, the former chairman of developer Wheelock and Co, said the protesters should ease off because they had already succeeded in killing off the extradition bill.

"The economy will take a deep downturn before the end of the year. The property market will take a big tumble. It is very clear where the economy is going," Mr Xie said.

Very few people are currently buying property in Hong Kong, according to Mr Xie.

"If you look at the price data, it doesn't look like a collapsing situation. But the borrowing has collapsed, so when are the sellers going to give up and start slashing prices? It's hard to tell," he said.

Buggle Lau analyses data for one of Hong Kong's largest real estate firms, Midland Realty Services, and said prices had dropped about 2 per cent since the unrest began with the luxury market hardest hit.

"Developers have slowed down their new launches. Both buyers and sellers are adopting a wait-and-see approach," he said.

Mr Lau said residential transactions dropped over 50 per cent this month, compared to the monthly average of the first seven months of this year.

"But we are not talking about a major collapse in the Hong Kong property market like in 1997," he said.

*Travellers stay away from Hong Kong as protests rage*
The tourism sector — usually Hong Kong's back-up when markets are underperforming — is also taking a beating, with travellers choosing to stay away.

n the eight weeks to August 9, flight bookings to Hong Kong from Asian markets fell more than 20 per cent on the previous year, according to analytics firm, ForwardKeys.

Long-haul bookings from mid-June to mid-August were down almost 5 per cent on the same period last year.

Ovolo runs a chain of boutique hotels in Hong Kong and has expanded its business into several Australian states.

"The impact now has reached a peak. When it first started it wasn't affecting it so much but I think the recent events have definitely had an impact on tourism into Hong Kong," he said.

The hotel chain has noticed an increase in cancellations, particularly in group bookings.

"Usually at this time we should be looking at 80 to 90 per cent occupancy and at this hotel we're probably down around 60 to 65 per cent," Mr Jhunjhnuwala said.

*Government says protests more damaging than SARS*
The Hong Kong Government has warned the downturn could go deeper than the SARS epidemic of 2003, and 2008's global financial crisis.

But despite its warnings and pleas to protesters to stop, there are few signs of things cooling, with millions of pro-democracy protesters again turning out to march the streets on Sunday night.

The Hong Kong Government announced last week it would pump billions into its economy in a bid to avert a recession.

The stimulus package, worth about $2.4 billion, is aimed at helping safeguard jobs and provide relief to "people's financial burden".

The political unrest is weighing on economic performance with Hong Kong's main market index, The Hang Seng, dropping to its lowest level since January last week amid the airport chaos.

The territory's flagship carrier, Cathay Pacific, is trading at 10-year lows.

Hong Kong's economy grew by just 0.6 per cent in the second quarter — the weakest rate in a decade — compared with the first quarter of 2019.

A contraction in the July-September quarter would tip the city of about 7 million people into recession.


----------



## Brainsucker

Mista said:


> I used to think he's paying lip service to strengthen his rule, but now I'm not too sure whether he truly leans towards Marxist ideals. I mean I don't remember previous leaders talking about 'purging ideological impurities in the party' or emphasizing Marxism as much as he do to strengthen their rule. He's shown to be far more ideological than Hu or Jiang for sure.



Yes. There are many unnecessary rules that restrict many pointless things in China now. Rules that can cause blunder. Maybe today CCP members read Karl Marx too much. So they want to shift China into Mao Zedong era of communism again.


----------



## 8888888888888

Mista said:


> *Hong Kong billionaire tycoons call for end to protests as unrest affects their profits*
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...-tire-of-protests-as-they-lose-money/11426568
> 
> Hong Kong's property tycoons are hurting, the share market is tanking and the tourism sector has taken a beating as the pro-democracy movement continues to strangle the city.
> 
> *Key points:*
> 
> Hong Kong's richest person Li Ka-shing has called for an end to the protests
> The 10 richest people in Hong Kong have lost billions since the protests began in June
> Hong Kong's economy grew at its slowest annual pace since 2008 in the second quarter
> While the US-China trade war has fuelled some of the losses, weeks of violent protests have wreaked havoc for investor sentiment and caused huge reputational damage for the semi-autonomous territory as an economic powerhouse.
> 
> As the protest movement enters its 11th week with no signs of slowing down, analysts are predicting the financial hub is barrelling towards recession.
> 
> Now the city's ultra-rich are calling for the protests to end.
> 
> The net worth of the 10 wealthiest tycoons, who derive their fortune from Hong Kong-listed companies, has shed billions since the protests started in June, according to the Bloomberg Billionaire's Index.
> 
> Hong Kong's richest person, 91-year-old business magnate Li Ka-shing, has become the latest billionaire to join the chorus speaking out.
> 
> Mr Li, nicknamed 'Superman' in Hong Kong, took out full-page ads in most local newspapers, urging a halt to the unrest "in the name of love".
> 
> It featured the Chinese word for "violence" with a red cross through it, flanked by slogans about loving China and loving Hong Kong.
> 
> The entrepreneur, who is worth approximately $39 billion, signed the ad with "from a Hong Kong resident, Li Ka-shing".
> 
> *'In Hong Kong, property tycoons control the land'*
> As the protest movement drags on, there are concerns the property sector, which is a linchpin of the local economy, could be in danger.
> 
> Controlled by the mega-wealthy, Hong Kong is home to the most expensive real estate in the world, making it out of reach of many of its citizens.
> 
> On average, a nano apartment — the size of a parking spot — costs about $1,475 per month to rent.
> 
> Most of the protesters taking to the streets are university students and young professionals.
> 
> They hold little hope of ever being able to afford their own home, so hitting the rich and powerful has become an aim of the movement.
> 
> "In Hong Kong, the property tycoons control the land supply," Shanghai-based analyst Andy Xie said.
> 
> Whether the billionaires of Hong Kong will do Beijing's bidding remains to be seen.
> 
> "They think these tycoons will keep the peace in Hong Kong, which is not their objective. Their objective is to make as much money as possible, as quickly as possible", Mr Xie said.
> 
> As their profits start to dive, more Hong Kong property magnates are criticising the protest movement.
> 
> Swire Pacific, one of Hong Kong's richest family-owned business empires, has issued a strongly worded statement condemning "illegal activities and violent behaviour," throwing its support behind the city's beleaguered government.
> 
> The family business, which dates back more than 200 years, is the largest shareholder in Cathay Pacific, owns luxury hotels, office towers and high-end shopping malls throughout the city.
> 
> Sun Hung Kai Properties, which is controlled by Asia's third-richest family, the Kwoks, has also called for the violence to stop and for social order to be restored.
> 
> Property tycoon, Peter Woo, the former chairman of developer Wheelock and Co, said the protesters should ease off because they had already succeeded in killing off the extradition bill.
> 
> "The economy will take a deep downturn before the end of the year. The property market will take a big tumble. It is very clear where the economy is going," Mr Xie said.
> 
> Very few people are currently buying property in Hong Kong, according to Mr Xie.
> 
> "If you look at the price data, it doesn't look like a collapsing situation. But the borrowing has collapsed, so when are the sellers going to give up and start slashing prices? It's hard to tell," he said.
> 
> Buggle Lau analyses data for one of Hong Kong's largest real estate firms, Midland Realty Services, and said prices had dropped about 2 per cent since the unrest began with the luxury market hardest hit.
> 
> "Developers have slowed down their new launches. Both buyers and sellers are adopting a wait-and-see approach," he said.
> 
> Mr Lau said residential transactions dropped over 50 per cent this month, compared to the monthly average of the first seven months of this year.
> 
> "But we are not talking about a major collapse in the Hong Kong property market like in 1997," he said.
> 
> *Travellers stay away from Hong Kong as protests rage*
> The tourism sector — usually Hong Kong's back-up when markets are underperforming — is also taking a beating, with travellers choosing to stay away.
> 
> n the eight weeks to August 9, flight bookings to Hong Kong from Asian markets fell more than 20 per cent on the previous year, according to analytics firm, ForwardKeys.
> 
> Long-haul bookings from mid-June to mid-August were down almost 5 per cent on the same period last year.
> 
> Ovolo runs a chain of boutique hotels in Hong Kong and has expanded its business into several Australian states.
> 
> "The impact now has reached a peak. When it first started it wasn't affecting it so much but I think the recent events have definitely had an impact on tourism into Hong Kong," he said.
> 
> The hotel chain has noticed an increase in cancellations, particularly in group bookings.
> 
> "Usually at this time we should be looking at 80 to 90 per cent occupancy and at this hotel we're probably down around 60 to 65 per cent," Mr Jhunjhnuwala said.
> 
> *Government says protests more damaging than SARS*
> The Hong Kong Government has warned the downturn could go deeper than the SARS epidemic of 2003, and 2008's global financial crisis.
> 
> But despite its warnings and pleas to protesters to stop, there are few signs of things cooling, with millions of pro-democracy protesters again turning out to march the streets on Sunday night.
> 
> The Hong Kong Government announced last week it would pump billions into its economy in a bid to avert a recession.
> 
> The stimulus package, worth about $2.4 billion, is aimed at helping safeguard jobs and provide relief to "people's financial burden".
> 
> The political unrest is weighing on economic performance with Hong Kong's main market index, The Hang Seng, dropping to its lowest level since January last week amid the airport chaos.
> 
> The territory's flagship carrier, Cathay Pacific, is trading at 10-year lows.
> 
> Hong Kong's economy grew by just 0.6 per cent in the second quarter — the weakest rate in a decade — compared with the first quarter of 2019.
> 
> A contraction in the July-September quarter would tip the city of about 7 million people into recession.


That is actually a good excuse to call the PLA garrison.

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## JSCh

I think the following article is relevant to HK current predicament.

*HK should embrace role in nation’s economic destiny*
By Hu Weijia Source:Global Times Published: 2019/8/20 21:03:41

The Chinese Academy of Sciences, China's highest academic institution in natural sciences, has recently built a research center in the Macao Special Administrative Region (SAR) for the study and innovation of integrated circuit (ICs).

Some people wonder why Macao, instead of Hong Kong, is rising as a new star in IC studies.

Ho Iat Seng, the candidate for the next chief executive of China's Macao SAR, said recently that he will help the city seize the chances offered by the nation's economic reforms. If elected, Ho is expected to strengthen economic links between Macao and the Chinese mainland.

The State Council, China's cabinet, on Sunday unveiled a document that aims to build Shenzhen into a pilot demonstration area of socialism with Chinese characteristics. Shenzhen is home to the headquarters of many high-tech companies including Chinese telecom giant Huawei. If Macao embraces opportunities to join the nation's development and enhances economic ties with Shenzhen, the SAR will gain the chance to upgrade its economy and foster strategic emerging industries such as ICs. Macao has the potential to become a research base for Huawei.

Macao's GDP per capita has exceeded that of Hong Kong. The Hong Kong SAR government on Thursday revised the real economic growth forecast for 2019 to 0 to 1 percent from an earlier estimate of 2 to 3 percent.

Paul Chan, the HKSAR government's financial secretary, said the risk of Hong Kong experiencing an economic downturn is significantly rising in the face of internal and external difficulties, according to the Xinhua News Agency.

Hong Kong has a great sense of superiority as an international financial center, but now the SAR needs a strong sense of crisis. If Hong Kong continues to turn a blind eye to the economic opportunities offered by the mainland, the SAR will be overtaken by more mainland cities in economic terms.

One possible consequence is that Hong Kong's role in China's economic landscape will be largely reduced.

Hong Kong residents have to admit that Shenzhen has surpassed Hong Kong in many areas. The central government's plan to build Shenzhen into a pilot area will support the city's development and enable it to become one of the most advanced in the world. An unreasonable sense of superiority will further widen the economic gap in terms of GDP between Hong Kong and Shenzhen. Hong Kong's future is in the hands of its people. Even if rioters continue to damage Hong Kong's economic recovery, they cannot counter the rise of Shenzhen, and Hong Kong residents will be the ultimate victims.

The central government will do whatever it can to prop up Hong Kong's economy , but the best choice for Hong Kong is to embrace opportunities to join the country's economic development.

_The author is a reporter with the Global Times. bizopinion@globaltimes.com.cn_

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## Mista

*Why Beijing Is So Reluctant To Suppress Protests in Hong Kong*

As Chinese paramilitary guards drilled on Hong Kong’s border last Thursday, China’s ambassador to the United Kingdom assured journalists Beijing had “enough solutions and enough power to swiftly quell unrest” in Hong Kong. And yet demonstrations have raged across the city for eleven weeks. So why hasn’t Beijing already sent in the troops?

Over the long run, using outside troops to subdue Hong Kong could trigger an exodus of talent and capital from Hong Kong. Such a move would inflame China’s already tempestuous relationship with the United States, possibly triggering economic sanctions. If the crackdown resulted in civilian casualties, it might backfire, bringing more people into the streets, and a prolonged occupation would do immediate damage to Hong Kong’s image as “Asia’s World City,” a unique half-way house between China and the West.

*The half-way house*
When Hong Kong was returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997, it became one of two Special Administrative Regions in China—the other being Macau, a former Portuguese colony—to enjoy special privileges. That status is enshrined in the Basic Law, a mini-constitution that lays down the framework for Hong Kong’s relationship with mainland China.

Under the Basic Law, Beijing and Hong Kong adhere to a principle known as “One Country, Two Systems,” whereby Hong Kong is an “inseparable part” of China but operates an independent judiciary, executive, and legislature. As such, the Basic Law prohibits Beijing from deploying military forces in Hong Kong unless Hong Kong’s governing body, the Legislative Council, requests the interference.

But few analysts believe the protests will trigger troop deployment. As disruptive as demonstrations might be to Hong Kong’s economy—which Financial Secretary Paul Chan Mo-po says is heading towards a recession— allowing the Chinese military to patrol Hong Kong’s streets would have a much worse impact on the confidence of Hong Kong’s international business community.

*Capital flight*

According to Credit Suisse, Hong Kong is home to 179,000 U.S.-dollar millionaires, 835 of whom have personal wealth over $100 million. Since the protests began, rumors that industries and individuals are moving money out of Hong Kong have spread through the city, with private bankers and family office managers reporting an uptick in clients offshoring assets.

Tommy Wu, Senior Economist at Oxford Economics in Hong Kong, says it won't be easy for industries to leave Hong Kong. “A lot of companies have invested quite a lot in the city in the sense [that] it’s a financial hub in Asia and also the door to get into mainland China. So it’s not an easy decision to just move out of the city,” Wu says. 

*Close to 9,000 foreign firms operate in the Special Administrative Region, according to data from Hong Kong's Census and Statistics Department, and over 1,500 serve as regional headquarters. According to the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (Unctad), Hong Kong is the world's third largest recipient of Foreign Direct Investment, behind the U.S. and China, taking in $116 billion in 2018.*

Unctad notes that mainland China is often the final destination for FDI in Hong Kong. Money moves to mainland China through Hong Kong's stock exchange, too, which was the world leader in IPOs last year with 135 companies raising a collective $36.5 billion. *There are over 1,100 mainland firms listed in Hong Kong with a total $2.6 trillion market cap—a 64% share of the total market at the end of 2018. *

*Hong Kong is also an exit path for outbound mainland Chinese investment. According to Bloomberg Economics, roughly 58% of Chinese outbound investment is channelled through Hong Kong, including funds for Xi Jinping’s signature Belt and Road Initiative. That's because—thanks to the Basic Law—nations treat Hong Kong as an economic entity separate from China, helping the former British colony avoid broad economic sanctions imposed on China. *

As the U.S.-China trade war rages, for example, the U.S. has yet to impose tariffs on imports from Hong Kong. However, some U.S. senators have warned that Beijing's increased interference in Hong Kong threatens to undermine that political distinction. 

Hong Kong’s local currency, the Hong Kong dollar, which is pegged to the U.S. dollar, is also a more stable investment tool than the Chinese yuan. Shanghai had hoped to supplant Hong Kong as China’s financial capital by 2020, but according to the American Chamber of Commerce, it is doomed to fail due to its capital controls, which prevents money moving easily in and out of the city.

*Memories of Tiananmen*
What's more, the image of Chinese troops suppressing a political protest would remind too many Westerners of Beijing’s crackdown on student protests in 1989 and risk seriously damaging Beijing’s already precarious standing on the international stage. The U.S., locked in a trade war, could use the opportunity to put more sanctions on China.

Beijing knows this. While the subject of the Tiananmen protests is generally censored in China, last week the _Global Times_, a state-owned tabloid, said Beijing has the option to use force in Hong Kong, but that it “won’t be a repeat of the June 4th political incident in 1989.” 

“China is much stronger and more mature, and its ability to manage complex situations has been greatly enhanced,” the _Global Times _wrote, leaving the threat of interference intact. But the possibility of armed intervention turning bloody is maybe too great for China to risk.

https://fortune.com/2019/08/19/hong-kong-protests-china-supress/


----------



## JSCh

*Thai news site attacked on social media for publishing Xinhua articles*
By Wang Wenwen Source:Global Times Published: 2019/8/21 11:53:40

With tensions over protests in Hong Kong still brewing, in the smokeless battlefield of social media such as Twitter, a Thai news site was attacked by Westerners because it ran "pro-government" articles from China's Xinhua News Agency on the Hong Kong protests.

Teeranai Charuvastra, news chief at Bangkok-based news site Khaosod English, revealed to the Global Times that the site recently signed a content partnership with Xinhua and began to publish Xinhua's coverage about Hong Kong since August 16, because "we want to offer a different side of the story about Hong Kong protests to our readers, instead of only relying on Western media."

Charuvastra said that his news site publishes stories about Hong Kong protests from two sources - Associated Press and Xinhua, as they want readers to get both sides of the story and decide for themselves.

On August 19, Khaosod English republished a Xinhua story about nearly 470,000 Hongkongers taking to the streets to oppose violence and call for peace. Since then, the site's Twitter account began receiving messages from Western journalists who said it is wrong to present China's perspective on what's happening in Hong Kong, Charuvastra told the Global Times

A Twitter account identified as James Buchanan addressed Khaosod English, writing "China seems to be making a coordinated effort to control the narrative in the English language press of its neighbours."

The Global Times found that Buchanan is an alumnus of SOAS University of London and currently a senior research associate at the City University of Hong Kong.

Another Twitter user, Andrew MacGregor Marshall, a Scottish journalist and author, questioned why Khaosod English was "publishing blatantly untrue Chinese propaganda designed to undermine the democracy movement in Hong Kong."

Robert Scott, an ex-Reuters reporter, published several tweets on August 20, demanding the Thai news site tear up its cooperation agreement with Xinhua.

"If you do not understand why this is not the right time to be republishing Chinese g'ment propaganda then you have joined ranks with autocrats and dictators. Shame," the ex-reporter wrote.

Charuvastra said he felt disappointed these Westerners reacted this way.

"It's definitely shocking to us, because we are only trying to do our job. If this is the mind-set of some people involved in journalism, then how truthful and objective is their coverage of the ongoing protests? I think it is a very alarming revelation," Charuvastra told the Global Times.

"Westerners always criticized Chinese people for being 'close-minded' and listening to only side of the story, yet they are now attacking my news agency for trying to bring different sides of story to the audience and asking them to be open-minded," Charuvastra added.

Charuvastra said that despite the harassment and criticism, his news site will maintain its partnership with Xinhua and publish its stories.

"We will not bow to external pressures," Charuvastra said.

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## lcloo

You will not be able to find and read this news on newspaper and social media controlled by the West, because they have an agenda to trash HK police as evil.

*英籍"爆头警司"骂暴徒卑鄙:他们专门针对警察子女(图)*




香港警察，影视剧里的骄子，一句“阿sir”是民众表达安心最简洁的方式。但现实中，他们的境遇却远不如戏里从容。6月以来，香港反对派煽动一次又一次的游行示威，到最后往往变成暴徒们的丑陋表演。为恢复社会秩序，“清场”成了香港警察最重要也最常规的任务。8月16日，《环球时报》记者走进位于湾仔的香港警察总部，在那里见到了香港警务处警察机动部队总部校长庄定贤、香港警务处警察公共关系科总警司谢振中和东九龙总区冲锋队第四小队指挥官黄家伦等人。在采访中记者感受到，繁重的任务和来自暴徒的谩骂恐吓，让这群硬汉更坚定了守护“东方之珠”的决心。






*大街上，暴力示威者们进行“例行表演”;警察总部里，堆放着来自各界的花篮和锦旗*

“私人雇用的看更提着灯笼在狭窄的街上巡逻，冀以敲铜锣方式吓走邪魔鬼怪及不法之徒。”这是香港警队历史第一章《第一个一百年》中的一段记载。1841年1月26日，当英国米字旗在水坑口升起时，香港岛的人口只有约6000人。随着岛上人口快速增加，治安问题变得令人忧虑。直到1844年5月1日第一条警察条例立法生效，香港才建立起一支正式纪律部队。此后的100多年，这支队伍成为维持香港社会治安的中流砥柱。1997年香港回归，警队正式名称改为“香港警务处”。

香港警察总部由3座大楼组成，分别为楼高6层的东翼、楼高33层的西翼以及楼高42层的主楼。历史上，香港警察总部的建筑群经过多次扩建，才形成现在的规模。香港警队的理念也在“翻新”，“服务为本，精益求精”是总部里随处可见的标语，这句看上去更像来自服务行业的话，昭示着香港警队自上世纪90年代以来，已从半军事化的警政模式转为以服务为本的现代警队。16日，当《环球时报》记者所乘车进入警察总部时，正好看到正门有一些市民举着标语表达对警察的支持。在主楼大堂里，也堆放着来自各界的花篮和锦旗，上面写着“保家卫国大丈夫，止暴制乱真英雄”“香港治安全靠你们”。迎接记者的警员说，市民的支持是警队的重要力量来源。

但对反对派来说，香港警队却是“眼中钉”，他们不断煽动示威者“仇警”。8月17日，反对派在土瓜湾、红磡附近发起所谓“收复红土”游行，下午3时半，游行队伍刚从海心公园出发，《环球时报》记者就听到有人冲街边人行道高声叫骂，原来有3名巡逻警察路过。直到警察走远，黑衣蒙面示威者们仍在扯着嗓子显示“威风”——这在过去两个多月的游行中已成为“例行表演”。

暴徒们的表演并不能代表香港市民的心声。8月17日，香港各界在金钟添马公园举行反暴力集会，根据主办方公布的数据，共有47.6万人参加。散场之后，从添马公园外的天桥到金钟地铁站，群众与执勤警察合影的场面比比皆是，“阿sir加油!”的欢呼声不断传出。





庄定贤2014年处理反对派煽动的非法“占中”过程中，曾遭暴徒袭击导致血流满面。(资料图)

　　

*绰号“爆头警司”的外籍指挥官：“香港是我的家”;被钢珠击碎牙齿的一线警员：为保护香港而碎，我觉得很值得*

在香港警察总部的一间会议室，《环球时报》记者见到几位连日来奋战在一线的警官，最先与记者握手的是一位西方面孔的警官，他用标准的粤语打招呼，并找来一张纸，写下自己的名字：David John Jordan(庄定贤)。

庄定贤是香港警务处警察机动部队总部校长，他有个绰号——“爆头警司”。这是因为，在2014年处理反对派煽动的非法“占中”过程中，庄定贤曾遭暴徒袭击，导致血流满面。

 庄定贤是过去两个月处置暴徒暴力行动的现场指挥官。虽然自己是英国国籍，庄定贤却认为自己是一个“不折不扣的香港人”。他出生在新加坡，1992年在英国读完书后，因一次偶然的机会，进入了香港警队。他的母亲仍然住在英国，但时常会来香港探望他。庄定贤还娶了一位中国妻子，有3个孩子。“香港是我生活时间最长的地方，是我孩子出生的地方，是我的家。”庄定贤说。

“我虽然是西方面孔，但和我的同事们一起，我不认为他们把我像白人一样看待。”庄定贤对《环球时报》记者表示，他希望自己被视为一名为占99%的不支持暴力和破坏行为的民众服务的香港警察。






在采访中，庄定贤直言，香港目前的局势是他加入警队后从未遇到过的。他说，香港警队人员拥有一个共同的目标，就是“每一天都维护公共治安”，因为大部分香港民众都希望生活在没有暴力、没有犯罪、没有恐惧的环境中，“为了这样的目标，我们需要全力去守护这座美丽的城市”。

“passion(激情)、honor(荣誉)、ambition(抱负)。”东九龙总区冲锋队第四小队指挥官黄家伦的朋友圈里，有一张他身穿制服的照片，配有这3个英文单词。在8月5日处置黄大仙暴力示威的现场，黄家伦被一颗钢珠所伤。





当时，黄家伦和同事一起去驱散用障碍物堵路的示威者，却遭对方用砖头和雨伞攻击。警员们用一些胡椒喷剂和手掷催泪弹还击，但随着暴力示威者越来越多，他们只能进行战术性撤退，而在撤退过程中有示威者用弹弓射击钢珠，黄家伦的嘴唇不幸被射中，鲜血直流，一颗门牙碎成四块。“这颗碎掉的牙是为了保护香港而碎的，我觉得很值得。”

“我太太也是一名警务人员，无论我们谁出去执行任务，我们都会拍一拍彼此的肩膀，表示鼓励，并且嘱咐对方工作时小心等等。其实对于我们警务人员来讲，面对如此恶劣严重的情况，家庭是很大的一个支持来源。”黄家伦说，他受伤后妻子十分担心，但妻子一直都是很支持鼓励他的工作的。

黄家伦表示，示威者的暴力行为在不断升级，扔砖头，甚至扔燃烧瓶，用弹弓射钢珠，用高能镭射枪照射警察的眼睛。警方为此升级防护装备，比如为了应对镭射枪而采购了护目镜。他说，身处一线难免会面对危险，他相信警队会提供更好的装备来保护警员。“我从来不后悔加入香港警队。即便是我负伤当日，我们面对上百名围攻者仍能安全撤离，还逮捕了一名嫌犯，我认为这很值得。

*“艰难时期”——香港警队依然“最专业、最精良”;暴力升级——“我们有能力处理一切可能发生的恐怖主义”*

对于过去两个月暴力示威不断，香港警务处警察公共关系科总警司谢振中在接受《环球时报》记者采访时表示，主要是示威者行动快、人数多，他们用“野猫”或者“游击”的方式在香港各个不同的地方捣乱，袭击警署和警员，甚至袭击与他们持不同意见的市民。由于暴力升级的速度非常快，警方要针对形势的变化制定相关策略。特别是在一些人多的地方，警方任何一个行动决定都会影响当地的公共秩序，而秩序一旦被影响就可能有危险发生。

连日来，除了扰乱公共秩序，对香港警察进行攻击、侮辱，警察的家属和子女也面临威胁。谢振中对此用“一个极其艰难的时期”来形容，他说，即使没有发生暴力冲击，警员们也要面对示威者的谩骂，还有很多人遭遇网络暴力，个人资料被上传网络。警员们的家人及住所也受到示威者和激进分子的攻击，“相信你们也曾看到有警察的宿舍遭到暴力示威者的袭击和冲击”。

这一点，庄定贤感受深刻。“事实上，他们(暴徒)专门针对警察的亲属子女，这是卑鄙的。”庄定贤透露说，自己的孩子也曾受到不公对待，“作为一名警察，身穿制服，你可以不认同我的工作，但如果你针对我的妻子、我的孩子，这在任何公民社会都是完全不可接受的”。





尽管在身体和心理上都承受着巨大压力，香港警方依然严守纪律，用谢振中的话说，警方一直保持克制，武力的使用都会从最低层级开始，一旦达到驱散目的，武力的使用便会停止。黄家伦也表示，他和同事在前方一直是保持克制的，因为关于使用武力，警员们有严格的规章程序需要遵守。作为警队的一分子，他一直坚信香港警队是世界上最专业、最精良的一支执法力量。

“别看社会上有一些仇警的声音，其实香港很多市民都是支持我们、撑我们的，包括内地的同胞都是支持我们的。”黄家伦说，“我们也看到很多外国人士接受媒体采访，他们对我们的评价都是说我们很克制、很专业。所以我相信我们是世界上最优良的警队之一。”

 但那些暴力分子没有底线。从最初的投掷砖头、发射弹珠到近日的扔汽油弹，激进示威者用极其危险的武器攻击警员，不仅构成严重暴力犯罪，也被认为开始出现恐怖主义的苗头。如果出现恐怖主义怎么办？谢振中对此表示，香港对“恐怖主义”的定义依据的是《联合国(反恐怖主义措施)条例》。“我们一直留意暴力示威者的行为与动机，我们也明白恐怖主义是可以在很短的时间内形成的。香港警队有自己的反恐机制，会通过情报分析评估事态发展。我们有系统的反恐架构，连同特区政府以及其他执法部门，我们有能力处理一切可能发生的恐怖主义。”

谢振中认为，过去两个月香港警方的执法效果显著，大部分混乱都能在很短的时间内平息，基本都是当晚解决。虽然有暴力升级的情况出现，但没有人员死亡或出现大量严重受伤者的情形。他表示，警队有信心也有能力去处理当前社会面临的混乱和暴力局面。“我们很明白，在如此一个艰难时期，站在第一线保护我们家园的就是我们警务人员。所以，虽然正在经历一个无比艰难的时期，我们的士气依旧高涨。我们明白，在一个如此动乱和艰难的时刻，香港需要我们的保护。”

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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...esters-back-out-streets-mtr-corporation-again


*Shot fired as police draw revolvers after officers are chased down street by protesters in Hong Kong*


Two Mercedes-Benz crowd-control vehicles seen on streets as protesters build barricades and shout abuse at 'rogue cops'
Tear gas has already been fired and force earlier said water cannons would be used if situation turned ugly












A day after tear gas and violence returned to Hong Kong’s streets following a week’s respite, two more protests are being held on Sunday afternoon. And all eyes are on whether the 12th straight weekend of anti-government protests again turns ugly.

In Central, police family members held a rally at Edinburgh Place to call on officers to exercise restraint in dealing with protesters. They also want an independent inquiry to investigate police violence.

This rally was unexpected as police associations have made it clear they oppose any inquiry. The family members then marched to the office of Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor to submit a petition letter, which no one took delivery of, and are now marching to police headquarters to submit another letter to the force.

In the New Territories, anti-government protesters are marching from the Kwai Chung Sports Ground to Tsuen Wan Park.

Earlier, MTR Corporation closed Kwai Fong, Tsuen Wan and Tsuen Wan West stations from 1.30pm until further notice because of the protests. That also means trains will not stop at the three stations. Follow our live blog for updates.


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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165626852972482561

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## lcloo

"Peaceful protesters" 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165490546883715074

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165548452744290304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165622704294088704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165622700766687233

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## JSCh

*



*​*WE ARE NOT FOOLED BY THE HONG KONG PROTESTS*
By Kevin Zeese and Margaret Flowers, Popular Resistance
August 24, 2019 | EDUCATE!

Above photo: Agnes Chow and Nathan Law accept the 2018 Lantos Human Rights Prize on behalf of Joshua Wong in Washington, DC. Facebook.

Update: Protests continued in Hong Kong this weekend. The protesters returned to the use of violence and the police responded. The South China Morning Post reported: “In a now familiar pattern, the protesters threw bricks, petrol bombs, corrosive liquid and other projectiles at the police, who responded with tear gas, pepper balls and sponge grenades. Twenty-eight people were arrested, including an organiser of an approved protest march. At least 10 people were hospitalised, including two men in serious condition.”​
Some people in the United States are confused about the protests going on in Hong Kong. Whenever the corporate media and politicians, especially people like Marco Rubio, applaud a social movement, it is a red flag that the protests are not a progressive people’s movement, but serve other purposes. Is this really a democracy movement? Are workers protesting the deep inequality and exploitation there? If not, what are these protests really about?

Fortunately, a more complete narrative of what is happening in Hong Kong and how it relates to the geopolitical conflict between the United States and China is developing among independent and movement media. The following is a description of what has been learned recently.

*Hong Kong Protests: Not a Democracy Movement, but an Anti-China Tool*

What is happening in Hong Kong is not actually a people’s uprising for democracy, but a tool for anti-China rhetoric and “Great Power Conflict.” Many Hong Kong protesters are pro-capitalist and racist in nature, referring to mainland Chinese as locusts, and are calling for the United States to intervene. Many of the same tactics employed by Venezuelan, Nicaraguan, and Ukrainian regime change operations are re-appearing in Hong Kong. For example, demonstrators have used violence as a tactic to entice police to respond with violence in order to put out a false narrative of state repression against them.

Fight Back News describes the problem: “There’s a tendency among progressives in the United States to support big crowds of people protesting in other countries. No doubt, the corporate media assists in this process by labeling certain movements ‘pro-democracy’ or ‘freedom fighters.’”

Just because there are people in the street does not make protests progressive, worker-based or for the people’s interests. Fight Back News reports how Hong Kong has been used by China as a way to attract foreign investment, but also as a way to make the Renminbi (RMB) a more powerful currency as well as to advance China’s Belt & Road initiative. These are major threats to US dominance.



​Controversial American political activist Joey Gibson, founder of the group Patriot Prayer, holds up an American flag while attending an anti-extradition rally in Hong Kong on July 7, 2019. Facebook Live screengrab

Dan Cohen of the Grayzone mentions the ties between the protest movement and right-wing racist groups in the US. This is an issue requiring further reporting as it is strange that pro-Trump, racist groups are supporting the protests and the protesters are using US racist symbols.

Cohen’s major focus is the capitalist ties of the Hong Kong protesters. He describes the Rubert Murdoch of Hong Kong, Jimmy Lai, the self-described “head of opposition media,” who has been spending a lot of money, millions, to build the movement and giving a lot of media time to the anti-China rhetoric. And, he shows the connections between these capitalists and the Trump administration, i.e. he has had meetings with Bolton, Pence, and Pompeo as well as with neocons in the Senate, Marco Rubio, and Tom Cotton. 

The goal of the Hong Kong protests is only unclear because they are trying to hide their true purpose. The real goal is preventing the full integration of Hong Kong into China in 2047 when the transition agreement between China and the United Kingdom is finished. The United States, the United Kingdom, and billionaires in Hong Kong want it to be integrated into the western capitalist economy and fear China’s state-planned economy. If they succeed, Hong Kong will become a base of economic, military and political operations for the US at the Chinese border, a critical position for the West’s ‘Great Power Conflict’ with Russia and China.

The US is investing in an anti-China movement to make integration of Hong Kong into China difficult. China is already hedging its bets by building Shenzhen across the bay, a state-planned, market-based economy, which will become an alternative to Hong Kong and shrink Hong Kong’s importance. The people of Hong Kong will be the losers if this occurs.

*The Hong Kong Protest Is Not A Working-Class Revolt*

Even though there are good reasons for workers in Hong Kong to revolt, these protests are not focused on the issues of economic insecurity, i.e. high levels of poverty, the exorbitant cost of housing, low wages, and long hours. As Sara Flounders writes, “For the last 10 years wages have been stagnant in Hong Kong while rents have increased 300 percent; it is the most expensive city in the world.”

But, as Fight Back News explains, “The Hong Kong protests are absolutely not driven by or in the interests of the working class, whether in Hong Kong or mainland China.” In fact, the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions is not backing the demonstrations and called on its members to reject the call for a strike on August 5 put out by the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions, which is backed by the US National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

If the protesters were focused on workers rights, they would be demanding an end to, or at least reform of, the neoliberal capitalism of Hong Kong that is dominated by big financial interests and corruption. In fact, half of the seats in the legislature are set aside for business interests who vote to protect their profits and not basic needs such as housing, but there is no criticism of this by the protesters. 

In Popular Resistance, we wrote: “Hong Kong has the world’s highest rents, a widening wealth gap and a poverty rate of 20 percent.” These are crisis-level problems for the vast majority of people in Hong Kong, but they were not the focus of the protests. 

Fight Back News writes: “In actuality, the protests in Hong Kong serve the interests of finance capital, both in the city itself and around the world,” and makes the important point that “Hong Kong’s working class has nothing to gain from worse relations with mainland China, much less from ‘independence.’ They suffered greatly under British colonial rule – no minimum wage laws; no labor protections; barbaric legal punishments like flogging and more.”

*The Role of the United States is Evident to Anyone Who Looks*

The NED has spent millions of dollars to build this anti-China movement over the years in a place with a population of 7.3 million people, over a million fewer people than New York City. The first to report on NED involvement in the current protest was Alexander Rubinstein of Mintpress News, who wrote: “the coalition cited by Hong Kong media, including the South China Morning Post and the Hong Kong Free Press, as organizers of the anti-extradition law demonstrations is called the Civil Human Rights Front. That organization’s website lists the NED-funded HKHRM [Human Rights Monitor], Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions, the Hong Kong Journalists Association, the Civic Party, the Labour Party, and the Democratic Party as members of the coalition.” HKHRM alone received more than $1.9 million in funds from the NED between 1995 and 2013.

The Viable Opposition blogger, in How Washington is Meddling In the Affairs of Hong Kong, describes NED’s history as a regime change agent for the United States and the recent NED funding in Hong Kong, pointing to a total of $1,357,974 on grants to organizations described as promoting freedom, democracy and human rights in Hong Kong over the period from 2015 to 2018.

This is not short-term funding but a long-term commitment by the United States. NED has been doing mass funding in Hong Kong since 1996. In 2012, NED invested $460,000 through its National Democratic Institute, to build the anti-China movement (aka pro-democracy movement), particularly among university students. Two years later, the mass protests of Occupy Central occurred.

Sara Flounders points out US funding goes beyond NED, writing: “Funding from the NED, the Ford, Rockefeller, Soros and numerous other corporate foundations, Christian churches of every denomination, and generous British funding, is behind this hostile, subversive network orchestrating the Hong Kong protests.” The US-funding of NGO’s confuses political activists, media and commentators because they fund a myriad of NGO’s in Hong Kong. As a result, there are human rights, democracy, youth and other Hong Kong spokespersons whose NED funding is not disclosed when they talk in the media. 



​Martin Lee, Benny Tai and Joshua Wong speak at Freedom House, 2015.

Hong Kong protesters are not always secret about their ties to the US. In 2014, Mintpress News exposed US involvement in Occupy Central. They pointed out that Martin Lee, a Hong Kong protest figure, was in bed with NED. They gave him an award and had his bio on their website. He came to Washington, DC in 2014 along with Anson Chan, another protest figure, and met with Vice President Joe Biden and Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). Lee took part in a NED talk hosted specifically for him. In 2015, Lee and others were applauded for their leadership by Freedom House, which, as the now-deceased Robert Parry described in 2017, works hand in hand with the NED.

In this Popular Resistance story, we point out that during the current protests, participants were meeting with Julie Eadeh, of the US Consulate at a hotel. And, when Nathan Law and Agnes Chow visited the US they met with the China-hawk Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee Rep. Eliot Engel. They also met with Vice President Pence, Secretary of State Pompeo, National Security Adviser John Bolton, and Senator Marco Rubio.

Protesters carry US and UK flags, and sing the Stars and Stripes Forever and the US national anthem, displaying their connection to western nations. In one of the most iconic moments, demonstrating how these protests are really a microcosm of the conflict between the US and China, a protester used a US flag to beat a Chinese reporter, Fu Guohao of Global Times, who was tied up and assaulted at the Hong Kong airport.

Some believe the protests are too big for the US to control and point to the amount of money being spent by the NED. If the populations of Hong Kong and the US are compared, $1 million in funding for the movement in Hong Kong is equivalent to $60 million in the US. Additional funds are also being provided by billionaires. That level of resources is gigantic for popular movements that typically run on shoestring budgets.

The only way not to see US involvement in the Hong Kong protests is to close your eyes, ears, and mind and pretend it does not exist.

*Challenging the Dominant Western Narrative*

Although Western backing and political ambitions are the reality, it is a challenge to get this narrative out more widely. Too many in the US are confused by the messaging coming from the Hong Kong billionaires, NED-funded NGO’s, bi-partisan politicians in DC and the military-intelligence establishment, all made larger by the corporate mass media.

Corporate powers are banning social media accounts and YouTube Channels from China to suppress social media activism that tells a different narrative. For example, an article in the China Daily documents US involvement in detail with photographs of meetings between US officials and Hong Kong opposition, as well as the role of NED and Voice of America.

Independent media outlets, such as the ones cited above, are exposing who is behind the protests and their pro-capitalist, imperialist agenda. They are starting to change the dominant western narrative. This is critical because it is easy for activists to be drawn into supporting movements that are counter to our goals for social and economic justice as well as peace.

Hong Kongers have also been manipulated pawns in the US Great Power Conflict with China. They are advocating against their own interests by seeking what will essentially be re-colonization by the West. If the US is successful, it will not be good for the people of Hong Kong, Asia or the world.


We Are Not Fooled By The Hong Kong Protests | PopularResistance.Org

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165711397918953472

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## Nan Yang

After a gap of 10 days a little more news about her. I wonder why ? after all she is the "poster child" of the protesters.

*Hong Kong police apply for search warrant to access medical records of protester who suffered serious eye injury*

Force insist request is necessary as cause of woman’s injury unknown and there is no evidence to show it was caused by police
Anti-government protesters say she was hit by a beanbag round fired by police and have made her a symbol of resistance
Jeffie Lam 
Ng Kang-chung 
Published: 8:27pm, 29 Aug, 2019

Hong Kong police applied for a search warrant to secure the hospital records of a young woman who suffered a severe eye injury during a violent protest as she made her first public appearance in a video clip on Thursday to accuse police of brutality.

Police said the warrant was necessary after neither the woman nor her family responded to requests to pass on the file, reiterating that the cause of her injury, sustained during a protest in Tsim Sha Tsui on August 11, remained uncertain.

While anti-government protesters say she was hit by a beanbag round fired by police, and have made her a symbol of resistance
, the force has refused to take responsibility pending an investigation and has suggested she might have been hit by a projectile from a protester’s catapult.
Chief Superintendent John Tse Chun-chung, from the force’s public relations branch, confirmed the application for the warrant, maintaining the cause of the woman’s injury was unknown and there was no evidence to show it was caused by police.





The woman suffered a serious eye injury during a protest on August 11. Photo: EPA

“We have learned from the news she has been discharged from hospital and is recovering. We are pleased to see that and we hope she can contact police to give us an account of what happened that day,” Tse said.

“We previously wrote to the Hospital Authority in the hope of making contact but there was no reply.”

Health chief Sophia Chan Siu-chee said the Hospital Authority would handle the police request for a patient’s information in accordance with established procedures.

In a four-minute video recording played during a press conference held by protesters on Thursday, the woman – who wore sunglasses, a mask and had her right eye covered by gauze – urged police officers to stop violent acts against Hongkongers.

Anti-government protesters clash with riot police outside Tsim Sha Tsui Police Station on August 11. Photo: Felix Wong

“As a victim of police brutality myself, I hereby issue my strongest condemnation to the force,” she said.

After suffering the injury, the woman became an icon for the movement with many protesters wearing eye-patches during a demonstration at the airport in the days after the incident and carrying banners with her face on during a peaceful march the following weekend.





Goggles used by the woman who suffered an eye injury during anti-government protests. Photo: Handout

The woman did not talk about her latest condition in the video, but expressed gratitude to Hongkongers, especially the medical staff who had showered her with support during her recovery.

“When I could open one of my eyes for the first time … I finally learned about everything you had done for me, such as the sit-ins,” she said, referring to rallies held by medical staff outside public hospitals.

“I shall carry on with the energy you have bestowed upon me to live the rest of my life with strength and resilience.”

The woman also cited the Egyptian myth of the Eye of Horus, which symbolises a source of power and protection, and said she hoped her right eye could “become a beacon of hope that support Hongkongers to ward off evil”.

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## Menthol

May be now she feels like a hero for losing his eyes.

But years later when she realized that she is being used, there will be regret.

A huge regret but to shameful to talk about it.

Poor woman!

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## Mista

Nan Yang said:


> So what happened to this young girl ?
> Why no news ?



You think it's the protesters who did it?


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## Nan Yang

Not sure if anybody has posted this video clip but here it is. Enjoy.






Lots of information on the extradition treaty and about how it works.
Also shows how Western media works ... By shouting you down

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## Beast

Mista said:


> You think it's the protesters who did it?


How did you know it's not protesters? I saw those riot. They go mad and just flung anything. Anybody around can be easily injured or hurt. It's funny many of the accompany journalist with the riot policy got hurt by flinging bricks or metal pole then blame it's police who hit them.

First thing CCP got to do is to shut down apple daily and SCMP. Who never exercise any partial when comes to report things on China and all is rubbish accusing China.

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## Menthol

Beast said:


> How did you know it's not protesters? I saw those riot. They go mad and just flung anything. Anybody around can be easily injured or hurt. It's funny many of the accompany journalist with the riot policy got hurt by flinging bricks or metal pole then blame it's police who hit them.
> 
> First thing CCP got to do is to shut down apple daily and SCMP. Who never exercise any partial when comes to report things on China and all is rubbish accusing China.



When media company reported fake news.

The government have a right to close it.

Free press doesn't mean you are freely to report fake news.

And democracy, doesn't mean you can do whatever you want even at the expanse of other people voice.


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## Beast

Menthol said:


> When media company reported fake news.
> 
> The government have a right to close it.
> 
> Free press doesn't mean you are freely to report fake news.
> 
> And democracy, doesn't mean you can do whatever you want even at the expanse of other people voice.


No, in hongkong democracy is not like Singapore. Fake news are allowed to be post and as long as you are not quoting individual. Hong Kong media is allowed to post whatever rubbish it can.

If fake media can be closed down. Long ago ,it would have done it.

You think CCP can really do whatever they want? How naive you think. President Xi would have live in giant mansion, having fine wine , luxury yacht like Fat Kim. Why would he bother to upgrade China infrastructure , increase investment , increase spending on education to help million of Chinese improving their living standard.

A typical myth is CCP can do whatever at expense of others freedom? What is freedom? Freedom to insult others with fake lies? Freedom to start riot that Rob innocent freedom? Freedom to criticise for the sake of criticising? Does rob ,rape and murder is also consider a form of freedom each individual need to have?

Too much freedom corrupts. You need to accept human nature easily corrupts if not govern properly. Let me give u an example, if I remove law in a single day and allow individual to do whatever they want. Do you think they will do moral things like distributing food or clothes to poor or mass rape and murder or even rob for that single day?

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## bbccdd1470

HK has many pictures and analysis about this case. Go look for it if you can read chinese sources. One thing is worthy to mention that you can see the person's view about this HK crisis by his stand of this case.


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## Dai Toruko




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## sixth

what so call "one country two system" failed right at beginning, the current Chinese leadership should give up Deng
's stupid HK setting the sooner the better.

those what so call "pro-democracy activists, protectors" by the western media indeed are rioters and criminals. this western judges implanted in HK system are collaborating with the rioters and criminals. anti-China western media twisting facts and making fake news on China as always.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

> *Persian Language And The Language Of Diplomacy*
> 
> The gradual entry of a large number of loan words into Persian from European languages and most notably from French began in the 19th century and continued through the 20th century as part of the process of modernization of culture and society in Persia. Several political and educational factors played a significant part in the selection and provenance of these borrowings. Although France did not have the perennial political and military influence of Russia or Britain on Persia, it served, particularly in the 19th and early part of the 20th century, as the most important model of modern secular culture for Persia as well as many other countries of the region. French was not only the language of the corps diplomatique and haute couture but was also used as a second language in European royal courts and aristocratic circles particularly when refinements of cuisine, manners, and etiquette were discussed.
> 
> This process continued into the 20th century with the educational system at all levels modeled on the French system, in organization as well as curricula, and with the textbooks, particularly in the sciences, based on translations from French.
> 
> 
> http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/france-xvi-loan-words-in-persian-
> 
> By the 17th century, French was known as the language of diplomacy and international relations throughout the world.
> 
> Iranians know what to expect when dealing with foreign leaders, as the French meaning of their names give a pretty good hint!
> 
> Here a small list:
> 
> •Shinzo Abe is a Japanese politician who has been Prime Minister of Japan since 2012:
> *Shinzo The Abbot* (French: abbé; Meaning: abbot)
> 
> •Imran Ahmed Khan Niazi HI PP is the 22nd and current Prime Minister of Pakistan:
> *Imran The Rod* (French: canne; Meaning: stick)
> 
> •Narendra Damodardas Modi is an Indian politician serving as the 14th and current Prime Minister of India since 2014:
> *Narendra The Cursed* (French: maudit; Meaning: cursed)
> 
> •George Walker Bush is an American politician who served as the 43rd President of the United States from 2001 to 2009:
> *George The Big Mouth* (French: bouche; Meaning: mouth)
> 
> •Donald John Trump is the 45th and current President of the United States, in office since January 20, 2017:
> *Donald The Cheat* (French: trompe; Meaning: deceive)
> 
> •Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is a Russian statesman and former intelligence officer serving as President of Russia since 2012:
> *Vladimir The Whore* (French: putain; Meaning: prostitute)
> 
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20190828...raws-us-from-iran-nuclear-deal.557755/page-18




That one also only for Iranians (humour):

*"Poor pepe #HongKong #HongKongProtest #antiELAB"*

•French: pépé; Meaning: old man, grandpa








http://web.archive.org/web/20190831181738/https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC2spgnXkAI-6z4.jpg ; https://archive.fo/mham9/38be0b249c059637b4b20f20f954a01a9c70a136.jpg ; https://twitter.com/ErinFrenchtt/status/1165777727380762626 
▲ 1. Poor pepe #HongKong #HongKongProtest #antiELAB


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## aziqbal

China is doing to HK people what it did to the muslims in Uighur regions

but the Uighur are a peaceful people and have patience and suffer in silence

people of HK on the other hand are fighters and will defend their right to live freely

on this occasion China is wrong and they cannot control HK its that simple

also this just shows how hard it will be to control Taiwan if they tried

to begin with I was with mainland but now I support the protestors and longer it goes on stronger the protesters are getting

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## lcloo

Yellow banana shouted in front of British embassy in HK, "We are British, we want to go home!"

Yes, please go back to Britain!

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## Dai Toruko

Police in Hong Kong were seen beating protesters on a train, after reports that demonstrators were disrupting train services.


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## waz

Petrol bombs being thrown on mass.

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## bbccdd1470

Dai Toruko said:


> Police in Hong Kong were seen beating protesters on a train, after reports that demonstrators were disrupting train services.


This is the longer version





This was what happened before the police arrived:






Longer version:





This was the video explained the reason why those rioters were in the MRT station at first:





Next time you should do more research before posting purposedly edited video, also they were rioters and did not just disrupted train services but attacked normal citizens and damaged private properties.

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## Brainsucker

bbccdd1470 said:


> This is the longer version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was what happened before the police arrived:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Longer version:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the video explained the reason why those rioters were in the MRT station at first:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next time you should do more research before posting purposedly edited video, also they were rioters and did not just disrupted train services but attacked normal citizens and damaged private properties.



So Dai Toruko is spreading disinformation? Ok, thanks for this clarification. So his intention is not honest?

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## bbccdd1470

Brainsucker said:


> So Dai Toruko is spreading disinformation? Ok, thanks for this clarification. So his intention is not honest?


He is not the only one, we have a lots of fake news in HK too. HK situation is very complicated and many information did not report in the mainstream media (including our HK news). Many HK people have to rely on live (some even recorded the live due to after editing by the biased HK media) and self recording by cell phone (as the reason why normal people got beaten up by BT).
Let's me tell you one more thing that didn't heavily report in HK News and never mention in western news, where the HK police had cracked down a hide out from the BT that found many weapons and *reporter IDs* which use for reporter to identify himself in the front-line. That means unknown number of reporters during the riot were not real reporters, and it helped to explain why there were so many times those reporters obstructed the police activities during riot, and always focused or exaggerated on police brutality.

A normal citizen found out that during an assault to a traveler by some BT outside the HK airport yesterday, those fake reporters pretended to take pictures of the violence while they didn't even remove their camera covers.

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## Shifu

bbccdd1470 said:


> He is not the only one, we have a lots of fake news in HK too. HK situation is very complicated and many information did not report in the mainstream media (including our HK news). Many HK people have to rely on live (some even recorded the live due to after editing by the biased HK media) and self recording by cell phone (as the reason why normal people got beaten up by BT).
> Let's me tell you one more thing that didn't heavily report in HK News and never mention in western news, where the HK police had cracked down a hide out from the BT that found many weapons and *reporter IDs* which use for reporter to identify himself in the front-line. That means unknown number of reporters during the riot were not real reporters, and it helped to explain why there were so many times those reporters obstructed the police activities during riot, and always focused or exaggerated on police brutality.
> 
> A normal citizen found out that during an assault to a traveler by some BT outside the HK airport yesterday, those fake reporters pretended to take pictures of the violence while they didn't even remove their camera covers.



Once these type of rioting style is copied by rioters in other countries then we will have the last laugh.

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## lcloo

Black shirts attacked foreigner in subway.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168430246879625221
Petrol bomb attack

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1167792628324286464
Smashing counters in a subway station

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168268155631759360

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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.scmp.com/video/scmp-ori...cott-class-first-day-school-police-patrol-mtr

*Hong Kong students boycott class on first day of school as police patrol MTR stations*

Thousands of secondary school pupils across Hong Kong joined anti-government protests on the first day of school on September 2, 2019. 

Organisers estimate as many as 10,000 students from 200 schools took part in the strike to voice anger about the government's now-shelved extradition bill. 

Thousands of students and some alumni were expected to head to the city centre for an anti-government rally. 

Meanwhile, Hong Kong police have been patrolling dozens of MTR stations across the city to stop protesters who tried to disrupt the railway network.


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## Dai Toruko

bbccdd1470 said:


> This is the longer version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was what happened before the police arrived:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Longer version:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the video explained the reason why those rioters were in the MRT station at first:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next time you should do more research before posting purposedly edited video, also they were rioters and did not just disrupted train services but attacked normal citizens and damaged private properties.








Why there is no police?



Brainsucker said:


> So Dai Toruko is spreading disinformation? Ok, thanks for this clarification. So his intention is not honest?



Before any proper investigations are done, before any witnesses are interviewed people blindly take sides. What happens if you're wrong? All you've done is spread hatred and false information against the other side, further worsening trust and understanding between you and the latter. This reinforces negative and hostile behavior. Instead people should be demanding the investigations to be as transparent and thorough as possible to bring justice to the perpetrators and support the innocent civilians who were just commuting and trying to get home to their loved ones.


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## lcloo

Looks like Hong Kong will rot into state of oblivion. The future belong to the young generation, but they are destroying it by their own actions. What a shame.

Brain washed by the West ideology through the infiltrated education and mis-used of freedom of press frauded with false news, they were instilled in their mind that Hong Kong can be independent with Western model of democracy, but they forgot the British never allowed them such pleasure until just a few years before handed over to China.

The British act was to in plant a seed of western democracy for a China ruled Hong Kong, which ironically they never allowed while under their colonial rule. Interestingly the young people with-out memory of the 1980s and 1990s were induced to think the days under the British were better.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I hope peaceful *Chinese people *have courage to deal with these disturbances 100% organized from outside

So confused poor Hong Kong folks

​
People of Hong Kong just too greedy .....please respect Main Land china your home land
CHINA is real home Hong Kong ....real family stop chasing outsiders

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## bbccdd1470

Dai Toruko said:


> Why there is no police?


If you have really studied the case, you should already know the answer. Two police officers had arrived to the scene within 7 minutes after the first 999 call, but decided to call for backup due to more than a hundred of people inside the MRT hall. The large fight in the hall broke out at 23:00 and the infamous beating inside the train was around 23:04. A group of police, the first backup, arrived to the MRT station at 23:17. The police on 21th July, especially in the New Territories, was severe lack of manpower due to most of the police including riot police had transferred to the HK island to suppress the ongoing riot that was caused by the BT.

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## Mista

*Special Report: Hong Kong leader says she would 'quit' if she could, fears her ability to resolve crisis now 'very limited'*

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Embattled Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam said she has caused “unforgivable havoc” by igniting the political crisis engulfing the city and would quit if she had a choice, according to an audio recording of remarks she made last week to a group of businesspeople.

At the closed-door meeting, Ms Lam told the group that she now has "very limited" room to resolve the crisis because the unrest has become a national security and sovereignty issue for China amid rising tensions with the United States.

"If I have a choice," she said, speaking in English, "the first thing is to quit, having made a deep apology".

Ms Lam's dramatic and at times anguished remarks offer the clearest view yet into the thinking of the Chinese leadership as it navigates the unrest in Hong Kong, the biggest political crisis to grip the country since the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.

Hong Kong has been convulsed by sometimes violent protests and mass demonstrations since June, in response to a proposed law by Ms Lam's administration that would allow people suspected of crimes on the mainland to be extradited to face trial in Chinese courts. The law has been shelved, but Ms Lam has been unable to end the upheaval. Protesters have expanded their demands to include complete withdrawal of the proposal, a concession her administration has so far refused. Large demonstrations wracked the city again over the weekend.

Ms Lam suggested that Beijing had not yet reached a turning point. She said Beijing had not imposed any deadline for ending the crisis ahead of National Day celebrations scheduled for Oct 1. And she said China had "absolutely no plan" to deploy People's Liberation Army troops on Hong Kong streets. World leaders have been closely watching whether China will send in the military to quell the protests, as it did a generation ago in the bloody Tiananmen crackdown in Beijing.

Ms Lam noted, however, that she had few options once an issue had been elevated "to a national level", a reference to the leadership in Beijing, "to a sort of sovereignty and security level, let alone in the midst of this sort of unprecedented tension between the two big economies in the world".

In such a situation, she added, "the room, the political room for the chief executive who, unfortunately, has to serve two masters by constitution, that is the central people's government and the people of Hong Kong, that political room for manoeuvring is very, very, very limited".

Three people who attended the meeting confirmed that Ms Lam had made the comments in a talk that lasted about half an hour. A 24-minute recording of her remarks was obtained by Reuters. The meeting was one of a number of "closed-door sessions" that Ms Lam said she has been doing "with people from all walks of life" in Hong Kong.

Responding to Reuters, a spokesman for Ms Lam said she attended two events last week that included businesspeople, and that both were effectively private. "We are therefore not in a position to comment on what the chief executive has said at those events," the spokesman said.

China's Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office, a high-level agency under China's cabinet, the State Council, did not respond to questions submitted by Reuters.

China's State Council Information Office did not immediately respond to questions from Reuters.

'THE PRICE WOULD BE TOO HUGE'

The Hong Kong protests mark the biggest popular challenge to the rule of Chinese President Xi Jinping since he took power in 2012. Mr Xi is also grappling with an escalating strategic rivalry with the United States and a slowing economy. Tensions have risen as the world's two biggest economies are embroiled in a tit-for-tat trade war. Disagreements over Taiwan and over China's moves to tighten its control in the South China Sea have further frayed relations between Beijing and Washington.

Ms Lam's remarks are consistent with a Reuters report published on Friday that revealed how leaders in Beijing are effectively calling the shots on handling the crisis in Hong Kong. The Chinese government rejected a recent proposal by Ms Lam to defuse the conflict that included withdrawing the extradition bill altogether, three people with direct knowledge of the matter told Reuters.

Asked about the report, China's Foreign Ministry said that the central government "supports, respects and understands" Ms Lam's decision to suspend the bill. _The Global Times_, a nationalistic tabloid published by the Communist Party's official _People's Daily_, denounced it as "fake."

As protests escalated, Ms Lam suspended the bill on June 15. Several weeks later, on July 9, she announced that it was "dead". That failed to mollify the protesters, who expanded their demands to include an inquiry into police violence and democratic reform. Many have also called for an end to what they see as meddling by Beijing in the affairs of Hong Kong.

The tone of Ms Lam's comments in the recording is at odds with her more steely public visage. At times, she can be heard choking up as she reveals the personal impact of the three-month crisis.

"For a chief executive to have caused this huge havoc to Hong Kong is unforgiveable," she said.

Ms Lam told the meeting that the leadership in Beijing was aware of the potential damage to China's reputation that would arise from sending troops into Hong Kong to quell the protests.

"They know that the price would be too huge to pay," she said.

"They care about the country's international profile," she said. "It has taken China a long time to build up to that sort of international profile and to have some say, not only being a big economy but a responsible big economy, so to forsake all those positive developments is clearly not on their agenda."

But she said China was "willing to play long" to ride out the unrest, even if it meant economic pain for the city, including a drop in tourism and losing out on capital inflows such as initial public offerings.

'BIGGEST SADNESS'

Ms Lam also spoke about the importance of the rule of law in Hong Kong and restoring stability to the city of more than seven million, as well as the need to improve efforts to get the government's message out. At the end, applause can be heard on the recording.

While Ms Lam said that now was not the time for "self-pity", she spoke about her profound frustration with not being able "to reduce the pressure on my frontline police officers", or to provide a political solution to "pacify the large number of peaceful protesters who are so angry with the government, with me in particular".

Her inability "to offer a political situation in order to relieve the tension", she said, was the source of her "biggest sadness."

Ms Lam also spoke about the impact the crisis has had on her daily life.

"Nowadays it is extremely difficult for me to go out," she said. "I have not been on the streets, not in shopping malls, can't go to a hair salon. I can't do anything because my whereabouts will be spread around social media."

If she were to appear in public, she said, "you could expect a big crowd of black T-shirts and black-masked young people waiting for me". Many of the protesters wear black at demonstrations.

After enjoying relatively high popularity in the initial part of her tenure, Ms Lam is now the least popular of any of the four leaders who have run Hong Kong since its handover from British to Chinese rule in 1997, according to veteran pollster Robert Chung, who runs the Public Opinion Research Institute.

HONG KONG 'IS NOT DEAD YET'

Ms Lam was chosen as city leader in March 2017, vowing to "unite society" and heal divisions in Hong Kong, which remains by far the freest city under Chinese rule. Under the "one country, two systems" formula agreed with Britain, Hong Kong enjoys an array of personal freedoms that don't exist in mainland China. One of the most cherished of those freedoms is the city's British-style system of independent courts and rule of law. The protesters say the extradition law would erode that bulwark of liberty.

According to a biography on the Hong Kong government website, Ms Lam, a devout Catholic, attended St Francis' Canossian College. Her mother, who took care of seven family members on a daily basis, was her role model and inspiration, the biography said. An election manifesto said Ms Lam came from a "grassroots" family and did her homework on a bunk-bed. After studying sociology at the University of Hong Kong, she went on to a distinguished career as a civil servant in Hong Kong. She was elected city leader in March 2017 by a 1,200-member election committee stacked with Beijing loyalists.

In her early days as leader, Ms Lam pushed through a series of controversial government policies, drawing public criticism in Hong Kong, but winning praise from Chinese leader Xi Jinping.

On July 1, 2017, the day she was sworn in, Ms Lam donned a white hard hat as she walked with Mr Xi to inspect the new Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge, which physically links Hong Kong to mainland China. Critics say the bridge could further weaken Hong Kong's autonomy by deepening its physical links with southern China.

The effective expulsion last year of _Financial Times_ editor Victor Mallet, whose visa wasn't renewed after he hosted an event at the city's Foreign Correspondents' Club with the leader of the pro-independence Hong Kong National Party, also drew condemnation at home and abroad. Ms Lam and her government later came under fire for banning the party and the disqualification of pro-democracy lawmakers.

Mr Xi praised ms Lam's leadership during a visit to Beijing in December 2018. "The central government fully endorses the work of Chief Executive Lam" and the Hong Kong government, Mr Xi said, according to a report in the state news agency Xinhua.

Pollster Robert Chung said Ms Lam's success in pushing through many controversial proposals bolstered her belief she would be able to ram through the extradition bill.

"All these things made her feel so confident, and when we had the first demonstration, she still thought, 'Don't worry, I'll get it through in two days and things will be over,'" Mr Chung said. "But she was totally wrong."

At the meeting last week, Ms Lam said the extradition bill was her doing and was meant to "plug legal loopholes in Hong Kong's system".

"This is not something instructed, coerced by the central government," she said.

She expressed deep regrets about her push to pass the bill. "This has proven to be very unwise given the circumstances," she said. "And this huge degree of fear and anxiety amongst people of Hong Kong vis-à-vis the mainland of China, which we were not sensitive enough to feel and grasp."

She gave her audience a gloomy outlook. The police, she said, would continue to arrest those responsible for "this escalating violence", a group that the government initially estimated numbered between one thousand and two thousand.

It would be "naïve", she said, to "paint you a rosy picture, that things will be fine". She did, however, express hope in the city's ultimate "resurrection".

"Hong Kong is not dead yet. Maybe she is very, very sick, but she is not dead yet," she said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...resolve-crisis-now-very-limited-idUSKCN1VN1DU


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## lcloo

Today's Front Page of Oriental Daily newspaper.
_Flanking attack by Tariff War and Protesters Riots _
_Retail Business Dropped by 70%_
_Businesses are being massacred _
_Employee Retrenchment on Explosive Rise_

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## Galactic Penguin SST

lcloo said:


> Yellow banana shouted in front of British embassy in HK, "We are British, we want to go home!"
> 
> Yes, please go back to Britain!






Poor bananas, remind one of *@Viva_Viet* and *@Viet*: even the european white masters don't want them in Europe, and consider them only useful as doormat in their East Asian colonies!


*Britain refuses to give full passports to its supporters in Hong Kong *

Tue Sep 3, 2019 

As tensions rise in Hong Kong after months of protests and unrest, growing calls for the UK to grant the right of abode to citizens of its former colony have added a new twist to the unfolding drama.

Britain’s hardline approach to citizenship issues concerning Hong Kong residents has exposed a hypocritical edge to the UK’s policy towards China’s special administrative region.

According to the Financial Times, several hundred “protesters” mobilized outside the British consulate on September 01, demanding “full British” passports.

But the Financial Times’ headline that the UK risks “being pulled” into the Hong Kong “crisis” over the “citizenship row” is misleading as Britain enthusiastically dived into China’s internal affairs as soon as the protests began in earnest in June.

The background to this case stretches back to 1997, when just prior to Britain’s handover of Hong Kong to China, the UK granted British Nationals (Overseas) passports to three million Hong Kong residents.

Prior to this, and during the latter stages of Britain’s colonial rule, Hong Kong citizens held British Dependent Territories Citizens passports.

The current British Nationals (Overseas) passports, held by up to one million Hong Kong residents, does not grant right of abode in the UK.

The South China Morning Post, which is Hong Kong’s English-language newspaper of record, reported on July 24, 2018, that declassified British cabinet files reveal that in 1985 Britain applied “pressure” on Portugal not to grant nationality to its colonial residents in Macau.

Apparently British officials were fearful that ‘Hongkongers’ would demand the same right from their British colonial masters.

These revelations, coupled with Britain’s continuing refusal to grant full citizenship rights to pro-British elements in Hong Kong, are at odds with Britain’s persistent expressions of sympathy for the people of Hong Kong.

This hypocrisy gives weight to suspicions that Britain is more interested in using Hong Kong to pressure China than actually caring about the welfare of Hong Kong residents.

http://web.archive.org/web/20190903...9/09/03/605120/UK-Hong-Kong-China-Citizenship
http://archive.is/ZD0VZ

*To HKese, Ukies, Libyies, Syries and all other low IQ loosers:*

If you don't love yourself and your motherland, then how will you protect your community from european imperialist plots?

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## Galactic Penguin SST

*Pavements and Riots*

Prior to the 1997 handover, sidewalks in Hong Kong were made of concrete.

Then slowly, each square feet have been replaced with the shoddy brick sidewalks most common in the mainland and also Taiwan island....

This while the French have systematically removed the Paris capital's sett paving, right after the 1968 riots, replacing them by asphalt.

Going against the trend of the time, that was to be expected.





http://web.archive.org/web/20190903...lish/2019-09/03/138362500_15675224779621n.jpg ; https://archive.fo/m6Moj/8d52faa583799428877a5e94222cb5265b4e71e9.jpg ; http://web.archive.org/save/http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-09/03/c_138362500.htm ; http://archive.fo/lsFeU 
▲ 1. Hong Kong brick sidewalks: a projectiles store for rioters. 





http://web.archive.org/web/20190903...e_hires_213423.JPG?itok=G7DMGQCZ&v=1555421670 ; https://archive.fo/OQQKi/81f29cfbd858c51473d291caf07a55c1b2bdca02 ; https://archive.fo/OQQKi/b1087a6d35e95b29ebae0e6ed3c9975b8f04df1d/scr.png ; https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...ng-man-who-threw-brick-police-fun-during-mong 
▲ 2. Projectiles available everywhere under one's feet.


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## bbccdd1470

Carrie Lam has officially withdrew the extradition bill, so people who are genuinely against the bill now get their answer. So the BT should have no more reason to riot, if the protest and riot keep ongoing then we know the real reason of the protests and riots are never about the bill but the excuse to cause troubles. We will see.

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## Mista

*Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam says will officially withdraw extradition Bill*

HONG KONG: Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam on Wednesday (Sep 4) said that she will officially withdraw the extradition Bill that triggered months of protests in the city.

"The government will formally withdraw the Bill in order to fully allay public concerns," Lam said in a video statement released via her office.

The extradition law would have allowed criminal suspects to be sent to mainland China for trial.

The withdrawal of the draft legislation was one of the protesters' key demands. Lam had declared the Bill "dead" in July, but stopped short of withdrawing it.

Opponents of the Bill saw it as a threat to the rule of law in Hong Kong, putting people at the mercy of China's justice system.

What started off as demonstrations to the Bill later evolved into a wider campaign involving clashes between protesters and police, in the biggest challenge to China's rule of Hong Kong since its 1997 handover from the British.

Apart from the full withdrawal of the Bill, protesters also want a commission of inquiry into alleged police brutality in the handling of protests, as well as for Lam to resign.

The Hong Kong leader said at a press conference on Tuesday that she had no intention of stepping down, saying she had "not even contemplated" discussing her resignation with the Chinese government.

This was in contrast to an audio recording of her telling business leaders that she wanted to quit over three months of unrest in the semi-autonomous city.

PROTESTER ANGER

Online message forums used by the largely leaderless demonstrators were on Wednesday filled with angry comments saying the Bill's withdrawal will not end the protests.

"More than 1,000 people have been arrested, countless injured," one widely shared message on the Telegram messaging app read.

"Five major demands, not one less. Liberate HK, revolution now," it added.

The Hong Kong government first launched the proposals in February, putting forward sweeping changes that would simplify case-by-case extraditions of criminal suspects to countries beyond the 20 with which Hong Kong has existing extradition treaties.

It explicitly allows extraditions from Hong Kong to greater China - including the mainland, Taiwan and Macau - for the first time, closing what Hong Kong government officials have repeatedly described as a "loophole" that they claim has allowed the city to become a haven for criminals from the mainland.

Hong Kong's leader would start and finally approve an extradition following a request from a foreign jurisdiction but only after court hearings, including any possible appeals.

However, the Bill removes Legislative Council oversight of extradition arrangements.

Officials initially seized on the murder last year of a young Hong Kong woman holidaying in Taiwan to justify swift changes. Police say her boyfriend confessed on his return to Hong Kong and he is now in jail on lesser money-laundering charges.

Taiwan authorities have strongly opposed the Bill, which they say could leave Taiwanese citizens exposed in Hong Kong and have vowed to refuse taking back the murder suspect if the Bill is passed.

Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...y-withdraws-extradition-bill-protest-11871728



bbccdd1470 said:


> Carrie Lam has officially withdrew the extradition bill, so people who are genuinely against the bill now get their answer. So the BT should have no more reason to riot, if the protest and riot keep ongoing then we know the real reason of the protests and riots are never about the bill but the excuse to cause troubles. We will see.



What's more important is public support and opinion. If 1m people had come out and voice support for Carrie instead of being against her, it would be far easier for her to come down hard on those violent protesters.

By officially withdrawing the bill, she would have a greater legitimacy to clamp down on the violent minority _if_ she could regain public support.

_If_, that is.

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## bbccdd1470

Mista said:


> _If_, that is.


Let's me tell you the truth, the current society of HK is more sentiment than rationality. There are few fake news or rumors spread around in HK that could easily spot its inaccuracy but still many people buy into it right away. So I don't think the situation would be improved in a short time. IMO, we are going to experience the forthcoming hardship, so it may help us to finally realize what we have today is not easy and learn to think really hard next time before destroy it without a second thought.


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## Mista

bbccdd1470 said:


> Let's me tell you the truth, the current society of HK is more sentiment than rationality. There are few fake news or rumors spread around in HK that could easily spot its inaccuracy but still many people buy into it right away. So I don't think the situation would be improved in a short time. IMO, we are going to experience the forthcoming hardship, so it may help us to finally realize what we have today is not easy and learn to think really hard next time before destroy it without a second thought.



群众是盲目的，但是心中也有一把尺。

The root cause of the protests is the bill, and now that is removed. If violent protests continue they are just gonna look irrational and unreasonable to the public. Another source of public anger is the alleged collaboration between the police and the triads, and IMO an independent inquiry committee can be convene to quash public doubts. 

Let's see how it plays out.

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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.politico.eu/article/hon...man-chancellor-angela-merkel-for-support/amp/

*Hong Kong activists call on Merkel for support*


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## nang2

Hamartia Antidote said:


> https://www.politico.eu/article/hon...man-chancellor-angela-merkel-for-support/amp/
> 
> *Hong Kong activists call on Merkel for support*


Ha ha, I just mentioned at some other forum on Hong Kong. Hong Kong's self-governance is a myth. They have no capability of managing their own fairs. They always need a master. If the fellow sitting at the throne of the China central government doesn't act like a master to them, they will be in a rush looking for someone else to be their master. Just like the little men in the movie "Despicable Me" but not as cute.


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## Hamartia Antidote

nang2 said:


> Ha ha, I just mentioned at some other forum on Hong Kong. Hong Kong's self-governance is a myth. They have no capability of managing their own fairs. They always need a master. If the fellow sitting at the throne of the China central government doesn't act like a master to them, they will be in a rush looking for someone else to be their master. Just like the little men in the movie "Despicable Me" but not as cute.



C’mon don’t be silly. Nobody in Hong Kong is looking for Merkel to run their show.


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## gambit

nang2 said:


> Ha ha, I just mentioned at some other forum on Hong Kong. Hong Kong's self-governance is a myth. They have no capability of managing their own fairs. *They always need a master.* If the fellow sitting at the throne of the China central government doesn't act like a master to them, they will be in a rush looking for someone else to be their master. Just like the little men in the movie "Despicable Me" but not as cute.


So what -- the highlighted? You just do not like it that the master is not China.

Now here is something interesting...

https://www.asiaone.com/world/it-to...his-fathers-mind-about-his-african-girlfriend
_Tan is a Singaporean-Hongkonger..._

Note how Tan ID-ed himself: HK-Si. Not Chinese.

In essence, HK residents do not see themselves as Chinese but something else and that identification went as far as to the descendants: From parents to children. China's leadership is not as myopic as the PDF Chinese. China's leadership recognize the psychological and cultural divide between HK and China. Right now, the HK protesters are waving the US flag, not the Chinese flag, and to the world, that is significant because it signifies a philosophical rejection of all things that is China. The HK protesters do not expect US direct involvement and they know that if Beijing sends in the tanks, HK will fall, but the point will have been made -- that China is not welcomed even on home soil.


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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-withdrawal-of-extradition-bill-idUSKCN1VQ038

*Hong Kong leader says China 'respects and supports' withdrawal of extradition bill*


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## Dai Toruko

Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam has announced the government will formally withdraw an extradition bill that's triggered months of protests. But the move is unlikely to halt the unrest, which has morphed into a broader movement calling for democratic reforms.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Dai Toruko said:


> Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam has announced the government will formally withdraw an extradition bill that's triggered months of protests. But the move is unlikely to halt the unrest, which has morphed into a broader movement calling for democratic reforms.



So I guess we can expect a massive campaign by the Chinese government saying “outside forces from the WEST 100% planned this whole thing to get us to machine gun everybody...but we saw through their evil plans and have won big by removing the treaty! This is just another example which we can put in our history books which shows our strength!”


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## Dai Toruko

Hamartia Antidote said:


> So I guess we can expect a massive campaign by the Chinese government saying “outside forces from the WEST 100% planned this whole thing to get us to machine gun everybody...but we saw through their evil plans and have won big by removing the treaty! This is just another example which we can put in our history books which shows our strength!”



Right out of Mao's play book. Remember "let a hundred flowers bloom"? He offered conciliatory talks through dialogue as a method to identify, arrest and slaughter the dissenters. The troops are waiting in the wings for that purpose.


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## -=virus=-




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## Hamartia Antidote

A Hong Kong protest descended into violence and vandalism in the late hours of Friday (September 6) when protesters attacked bystanders and dismantled signs at an MTR station in the Yau Ma Tei district.


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## Menthol

Veronica Koman with Joshua Wong.

Both are agents of CIA.

The next episode after HK is Indonesia.


Traitors!!!

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## Brainsucker

Mista said:


> 群众是盲目的，但是心中也有一把尺。
> 
> The root cause of the protests is the bill, and now that is removed. If violent protests continue they are just gonna look irrational and unreasonable to the public. Another source of public anger is the alleged collaboration between the police and the triads, and IMO an independent inquiry committee can be convene to quash public doubts.
> 
> Let's see how it plays out.



It seems that the bill is only an excuse for them. Look at the Friday violence.


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## Nan Yang

Hamartia Antidote said:


> So I guess we can expect a massive campaign by the Chinese government saying “outside forces from the WEST 100% planned this whole thing to get us to machine gun everybody...but we saw through their evil plans and have won big by removing the treaty! This is just another example which we can put in our history books which shows our strength!”


Doesn't Trump blame China for everything?
Doesn't Trump want to destroy Iran and North Korea?
Even Hilary Clinton blame the Russians for losing the election.

US politicians are famous for taking any credit and blaming others for any mess up.


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## TruthTheOnlyDefense

Australia has expressed its concerns after the latest wave of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong descended into violence.

Foreign Minister Marise Payne encouraged authorities to respond "appropriately and proportionately" and avoid further clashes.

"We've encouraged the authorities to respect peaceful protest and we would continue to do that," Senator Payne told the ABC on Sunday.

Hong Kong protesters threw bricks and gasoline bombs at police, who responded with tear gas, as chaotic scenes returned to the summer-long anti-government protests yesterday for the first time in nearly two weeks.





Protesters traded blows with police officers throughout the day. (EPA/AAP)

Hundreds of black-clad protesters armed with bamboo poles and baseball bats fought with police officers wielding batons on a main road following a march against "smart lampposts" that was sparked by surveillance fears.

The chaotic scenes unfolded outside a police station and a nearby shopping mall as officers in riot gear faced off with protesters who set up makeshift street barricades.

The violence interrupted nearly two weeks of calm in Hong Kong, which has been gripped by a turbulent pro-democracy movement since June.

Police fired tear gas to disperse the crowd after repeated warnings "went futile," the government said in a statement. By early evening, most of the protesters had dispersed, though clashes flared up in other neighbourhoods.

Earlier in the day, some protesters used an electric saw to slice through the bottom of a smart lamppost, while others pulled ropes tied around it to send it toppling and cheered as it crashed to the ground.

Four MTR subway stations were closed yesterday around Kwun Tong, a densely populated area of the Chinese-ruled city on the east of the Kowloon peninsula, but thousands packed the streets anyway, most carrying umbrellas against the sun.

Police used tear gas after some protesters threw Molotov cocktails and bricks and others tore up "smart" lamp posts equipped with surveillance cameras. Others had set up roadblocks with bamboo scaffolding.

It was the first use of tear gas in 10 days after a series of mostly peaceful demonstrations in the former British colony.

There were no immediate reports of injuries.

"Give me democracy or give me death" was spray-painted on a wall, an illustration how the demands of the protesters have expanded beyond the withdrawal of a bill that would have allowed extraditions to mainland China.

The government said in a statement the protesters "posed a serious threat to the safety of everyone" at the scene.

"After repeated warnings to the protesters..., police officers deployed tear gas and minimum force to disperse protesters," it said.





Riot police clash with protesters during an anti-government march in Kwun Tong, Hong Kong, China, 24 August 2019. (EPA/AAP)

There were sporadic, smaller protests elsewhere in the territory which continued after nightfall. Police fired tear gas in a running battle with protesters blocking a highway in the Wong Tai Sin district, to the northwest of Kwun Tong.

The airport and the roads and railways leading to it operated normally despite plans by protesters to implement a "stress test" of transport links after weeks of unrest.

Hundreds took part in an "anti-fake news" protest, with people waving the Hong Kong and China flags and targeting government-funded broadcaster RTHK. A station spokeswoman, Amen Ng, rejected claims that RTHK was engaged in fake news.
Meanwhile British consulate staffer Simon Cheng was detained for 15 days for violating public security management regulations, police in Shenzhen, across the border from Hong Kong, said on their Twitter-like Weibo account.

Police said Cheng was released as scheduled on Saturday and that his legal rights and interests had been observed. They also said Cheng had confessed to accusations against him, a commonly used comment by Chinese police, even though Cheng was not given a chance to defend himself in court.

Cheng had now returned to Hong Kong, his family said on his Facebook page.

No details were given of his detention, with the Facebook post asking the "media and friends to give them some time and space, and we will explain more later".

Some protesters in recent days had demanded Cheng be released. Britain said it welcomed the news.

Cathay Pacific Airways, which has become the biggest corporate casualty of the protests after China demanded it suspend staff involved in the demonstrations, protested against a planned rally by the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions around the airport's "Cathay City" HQ tomorrow.

"We have also reiterated to our employees that there is a zero-tolerance approach to any support for or participation in illegal protests, violent activities or overly radical behaviour," it said in a statement.

There is no sign of a let-up almost three months after the anti-government demonstrations began.

Authorities have so far refused to meet any of the protesters' five key demands, including calls for an independent inquiry into police brutality, a full withdrawal of the extradition bill, and full democracy.

Organisers are planning a host of protests in the coming weeks including a mass march, a city-wide strike and class boycotts at universities.

© AAP 2019

https://www.9news.com.au/world/hong...ws-china/7d8fd0bd-695c-4066-80ee-f6ae1242d150

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## Nan Yang

Riots are in the hundreds. Seems to be dying finally right after cutting off their funds.

Bid to disrupt airport thwarted by pre-emptive police and government action, with worst violence seen late at night at Sha Tin MTR station
Fewer people take to the streets, days after Carrie Lam says extradition bill will be withdrawn
Police now are on the offensive. Deploying the Raptors to chase them down. Way to go.

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## Nan Yang

Hong Kong Government going on the offensive.

*Businesswomen to defend Hong Kong government’s handling of protests at UN*

Pansy Ho and Annie Wu will tell UN Human Rights Council that ‘small group of radical protesters do not represent views of all 7.5 million Hongkongers’
It comes as Beijing ramps up efforts to sway global opinion on the unrest
Catherine Wong 
Published: 10:30am, 8 Sep, 2019





Macau casino heiress Pansy Ho will accuse radical protesters of “hijacking” the extradition issue in her speech on Tuesday. Photo: David Wong

Two Hong Kong businesswomen are expected to defend the government’s handling of protests in the city when the UN’s top human rights body meets in Geneva this week.

Macau casino heiress Pansy Ho Chiu-king and Annie Wu Suk-ching, daughter of catering group Maxim’s founder James Tak Wu, will speak at the United Nations Human Rights Council on Tuesday.

It comes as Beijing is ramping up efforts to sway international opinion on the months of anti-government protests in Hong Kong.

The pair will give a speech on behalf of the Hong Kong Federation of Women, a pro-government organisation, presenting its views on the political crisis that has gripped the city.

“The views of a small group of radical protesters do not represent the views of all 7.5 million Hongkongers. The systematic and calculated violent acts of this group have never been condoned by all Hongkongers,” they will say, according to a copy of the speech posted on the website of the UN Human Rights Council.

In the speech, Ho describes the bill as “well-intended” but says it was “hijacked” by radical protesters who have used it as “propaganda to undermine the Hong Kong government’s authority to protect the rights of one of its citizens even in her death”. She is referring to a murder case last year in which Taiwanese authorities were unable to prosecute a Hongkonger accused of killing his pregnant girlfriend in Taipei before he fled to Hong Kong.

Ho also says in the speech that the protests have had a “damaging impact” on Hong Kong’s economy and its people’s livelihoods.

And she defends Hong Kong police officers’ use of tear gas and rubber bullets on protesters.

“Tear gas and rubber bullets are tools used by police forces around the world, and are not unique to the Hong Kong police,” Ho says in the speech. “Used according to law enforcement procedures, tear gas and rubber bullets are an effective way to create a distance between the police and the protesters, and to avoid close physical confrontation and resulting injuries.”

Ho, co-chairwoman and executive director of Macau casino operator MGM China Holdings, is also a standing committee member of the Beijing Municipal Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, the top advisory body. Wu, founder of the first mainland-Hong Kong joint venture, Beijing Air Catering, is a standing committee member at the national level.

It is unclear whether their speech to the UN rights body has been endorsed by Beijing. But Hong Kong-based political commentator and China analyst Johnny Lau Yui-siu said it was in line with the Chinese government’s recent propaganda efforts.

“China has not been able to gain the upper hand in global opinion on Hong Kong despite having a huge propaganda machine and access to various international platforms,” Lau said. “Despite that, Beijing is still eager to fight the [propaganda] war.”

Lau added that Beijing was also likely to play up the speech in mainland China to boost domestic support.

*China tells US politicians to stop ‘interfering’ in Hong Kong*
Beijing has escalated its rhetoric against the Hong Kong protesters through both state media and social media. 
The foreign ministry meanwhile 
sent letters to dozens of foreign media outlets
in late August calling for “impartial” and “objective” reporting on the Hong Kong protests.
But the efforts to expand the propaganda campaign overseas have backfired at times. Facebook and Twitter last month took action against what they said was coordinated efforts by the Chinese government and those associated with it to spread disinformation about the protests in Hong Kong.

Yik Chan Chin, an assistant professor at Xian Jiaotong-Liverpool University in Suzhou, said Beijing’s propaganda drive was not likely to gain much international support.

“It won’t have much effect on changing people’s opinions on the Hong Kong protests. The perception has already been formed,” she said.

On Friday, Chen Xu, China’s envoy to UN institutions in Geneva, said Beijing was ready for any “undesirable or uninvited rhetoric” on issues like the Hong Kong unrest or the treatment of Uygurs in Xinjiang when the UN human rights body meets for three weeks starting on Monday, according to the Associated Press.

Chen also said Beijing did not believe the UN Human Rights Council was the “right venue” to discuss issues like the protests, saying the situation in Hong Kong was an internal matter for China.

Meanwhile at a Mid-Autumn Festival celebration in Washington, Chinese ambassador to the US Cui Tiankai reiterated that Hong Kong was facing its gravest situation since the handover from Britain to China 22 years ago, and that Beijing would not allow any conspiracy to split the country to succeed.

At the last UN Human Rights Council session in July, 
Hong Kong singer Denise Ho Wan-sze
sharply criticised Beijing’s policies and handling of the protests, drawing interruptions from Chinese officials as she spoke at the invitation of one of the NGOs that can address the council.

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## Beast

TruthTheOnlyDefense said:


> Australia has expressed its concerns after the latest wave of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong descended into violence.
> 
> Foreign Minister Marise Payne encouraged authorities to respond "appropriately and proportionately" and avoid further clashes.
> 
> "We've encouraged the authorities to respect peaceful protest and we would continue to do that," Senator Payne told the ABC on Sunday.
> 
> Hong Kong protesters threw bricks and gasoline bombs at police, who responded with tear gas, as chaotic scenes returned to the summer-long anti-government protests yesterday for the first time in nearly two weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protesters traded blows with police officers throughout the day. (EPA/AAP)
> 
> Hundreds of black-clad protesters armed with bamboo poles and baseball bats fought with police officers wielding batons on a main road following a march against "smart lampposts" that was sparked by surveillance fears.
> 
> The chaotic scenes unfolded outside a police station and a nearby shopping mall as officers in riot gear faced off with protesters who set up makeshift street barricades.
> 
> The violence interrupted nearly two weeks of calm in Hong Kong, which has been gripped by a turbulent pro-democracy movement since June.
> 
> Police fired tear gas to disperse the crowd after repeated warnings "went futile," the government said in a statement. By early evening, most of the protesters had dispersed, though clashes flared up in other neighbourhoods.
> 
> Earlier in the day, some protesters used an electric saw to slice through the bottom of a smart lamppost, while others pulled ropes tied around it to send it toppling and cheered as it crashed to the ground.
> 
> Four MTR subway stations were closed yesterday around Kwun Tong, a densely populated area of the Chinese-ruled city on the east of the Kowloon peninsula, but thousands packed the streets anyway, most carrying umbrellas against the sun.
> 
> Police used tear gas after some protesters threw Molotov cocktails and bricks and others tore up "smart" lamp posts equipped with surveillance cameras. Others had set up roadblocks with bamboo scaffolding.
> 
> It was the first use of tear gas in 10 days after a series of mostly peaceful demonstrations in the former British colony.
> 
> There were no immediate reports of injuries.
> 
> "Give me democracy or give me death" was spray-painted on a wall, an illustration how the demands of the protesters have expanded beyond the withdrawal of a bill that would have allowed extraditions to mainland China.
> 
> The government said in a statement the protesters "posed a serious threat to the safety of everyone" at the scene.
> 
> "After repeated warnings to the protesters..., police officers deployed tear gas and minimum force to disperse protesters," it said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Riot police clash with protesters during an anti-government march in Kwun Tong, Hong Kong, China, 24 August 2019. (EPA/AAP)
> 
> There were sporadic, smaller protests elsewhere in the territory which continued after nightfall. Police fired tear gas in a running battle with protesters blocking a highway in the Wong Tai Sin district, to the northwest of Kwun Tong.
> 
> The airport and the roads and railways leading to it operated normally despite plans by protesters to implement a "stress test" of transport links after weeks of unrest.
> 
> Hundreds took part in an "anti-fake news" protest, with people waving the Hong Kong and China flags and targeting government-funded broadcaster RTHK. A station spokeswoman, Amen Ng, rejected claims that RTHK was engaged in fake news.
> Meanwhile British consulate staffer Simon Cheng was detained for 15 days for violating public security management regulations, police in Shenzhen, across the border from Hong Kong, said on their Twitter-like Weibo account.
> 
> Police said Cheng was released as scheduled on Saturday and that his legal rights and interests had been observed. They also said Cheng had confessed to accusations against him, a commonly used comment by Chinese police, even though Cheng was not given a chance to defend himself in court.
> 
> Cheng had now returned to Hong Kong, his family said on his Facebook page.
> 
> No details were given of his detention, with the Facebook post asking the "media and friends to give them some time and space, and we will explain more later".
> 
> Some protesters in recent days had demanded Cheng be released. Britain said it welcomed the news.
> 
> Cathay Pacific Airways, which has become the biggest corporate casualty of the protests after China demanded it suspend staff involved in the demonstrations, protested against a planned rally by the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions around the airport's "Cathay City" HQ tomorrow.
> 
> "We have also reiterated to our employees that there is a zero-tolerance approach to any support for or participation in illegal protests, violent activities or overly radical behaviour," it said in a statement.
> 
> There is no sign of a let-up almost three months after the anti-government demonstrations began.
> 
> Authorities have so far refused to meet any of the protesters' five key demands, including calls for an independent inquiry into police brutality, a full withdrawal of the extradition bill, and full democracy.
> 
> Organisers are planning a host of protests in the coming weeks including a mass march, a city-wide strike and class boycotts at universities.
> 
> © AAP 2019
> 
> https://www.9news.com.au/world/hong...ws-china/7d8fd0bd-695c-4066-80ee-f6ae1242d150


Peaceful protest? I guess throw bricks can be considered as peaceful only in Australia. 

I dare you stand in front of brick throwing protester unprotected for a minute.

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## macnurv

Hamartia Antidote said:


> A Hong Kong protest descended into violence and vandalism in the late hours of Friday (September 6) when protesters attacked bystanders and dismantled signs at an MTR station in the Yau Ma Tei district.



Oh the peaceful protestors just protesting and destroying public property, you know the usual peaceful things.

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## Mista

Bold enough to protest but too shy to hold hands lol.
















https://mothership.sg/2019/09/hong-kong-students-human-chain/

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## Holmes

Hamartia Antidote said:


> https://www.politico.eu/article/hon...man-chancellor-angela-merkel-for-support/amp/
> 
> *Hong Kong activists call on Merkel for support*




Better call american's. They'd deal with it.


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## Brainsucker

Mista said:


> Bold enough to protest but too shy to hold hands lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://mothership.sg/2019/09/hong-kong-students-human-chain/



are they underage? Well, it's not rare for children to join a protest / demonstration. It is the same in Indonesia. In our previous general election this year. There are many children joins demonstration for money. And they were the fiercest one to attack the police. Like throwing with stones, monotov bomb, bow / arrow. And they were the most frontlines in a fight between protesters and police . That's why, they were the people who hurt most in the violence. And it's not rare to see Children to be killed in the fight.

I think, for the sake of human right and Children protection act, International Human Right should ban the involvement of underage Children in any act of political protests. Not until they are considered as adult in society. Any political organization who involve Children in their political campaign should be branded as violator of human right.

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## bbccdd1470

Brainsucker said:


> are they underage? Well, it's not rare for children to join a protest / demonstration. It is the same in Indonesia. In our previous general election this year. There are many children joins demonstration for money. And they were the fiercest one to attack the police. Like throwing with stones, monotov bomb, bow / arrow. And they were the most frontlines in a fight between protesters and police . That's why, they were the people who hurt most in the violence. And it's not rare to see Children to be killed in the fight.
> 
> I think, for the sake of human right and Children protection act, International Human Right should ban the involvement of underage Children in any act of political protests. Not until they are considered as adult in society. Any political organization who involve Children in their political campaign should be branded as violator of human right.


On the contrary only few of them were on the front-lines, those underage students are more like a piece of propaganda to show the foreigners how peaceful they are. In fact, there are personal accounts spreading around the internet that the underage "native" girls aged around 13 to 16 are brainwashed by the BT to believe they are "angels", so they should offer their bodies to those frontlines rioters. Not only that, the BT would give those girls marijuana to smoke before and have sex with them without any protection. Of course, their parents are heart-breaking and now the normal citizens are asking those girls and parents bravely to step out and report to the police because we can not allow our underage children to be deceived and abused, and prevent any future victims by the BT.

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## Brainsucker

bbccdd1470 said:


> On contrary only few of them were on the front-lines, those underage students are more like a piece of propaganda to show the foreigners how peaceful they are. In fact, there are personal accounts spreading around the internet that the underage "native" girls aged around 13 to 16 are brainwashed by the BT to believe they are "angels", so they should offer their bodies to those frontlines rioters. Not only that, the BT would give those girls marijuana to smoke before and have sex with them without any protection. Of course, their parents are heart-breaking and now the normal citizens are asking those girls and parents bravely to step out and report to the police because we can not allow our underage children to be deceived and abused, and prevent any future victims by the BT.



Oh, is that true? I can't believe it! it is already a violation of human right, and Child Abuse!!!!


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## Mista

Brainsucker said:


> are they underage? Well, it's not rare for children to join a protest / demonstration. It is the same in Indonesia. In our previous general election this year. There are many children joins demonstration for money. And they were the fiercest one to attack the police. Like throwing with stones, monotov bomb, bow / arrow. And they were the most frontlines in a fight between protesters and police . That's why, they were the people who hurt most in the violence. And it's not rare to see Children to be killed in the fight.
> 
> I think, for the sake of human right and Children protection act, International Human Right should ban the involvement of underage Children in any act of political protests. Not until they are considered as adult in society. Any political organization who involve Children in their political campaign should be branded as violator of human right.



I'm not sure about their age, but I agree that kids below a certain age shouldn't be involved in political campaigns.

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## bbccdd1470

Brainsucker said:


> Oh, is that true? I can't believe it! it is already a violation of human right, and Child Abuse!!!!


I won't say it is absolute true, but highly possible. Back on June, there was already a talk about the "自由西" where there are females BT to provide free sexual services to the frontlines rioters, to encourage young male to riot against the police. Only this time, the personal accounts reveal that they deceived the naive underage girls to do the sexual services.


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## Brainsucker

bbccdd1470 said:


> I won't say it is absolute true, but highly possible. Back on June, there was already a talk about the "自由西" where there are females from BT to provide free sexual services to the frontlines rioters, to encourage young male to riot against the police. Only this time, the personal accounts reveal that they deceived the naive underage girls to do the sex services.



If it's true, then Hongkong Police must act quickly, to protect those children!


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## bbccdd1470

Brainsucker said:


> If it's true, then Hongkong Police must act quickly, to protect those children!


They have to report to the police first, but you know the shame and "don't want anyone know" may discourage them. So that why the victim family just chose to write their experiences and made a audio to internet to warn others. However, I really hope they can report to the police.


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## Viet

Brainsucker said:


> Oh, is that true? I can't believe it! it is already a violation of human right, and Child Abuse!!!!


Don’t fall into the trap of propaganda. There are certain radicals in the PLA that seek a reason for sending in tanks.

That are the same nuts that seek a war against Vietnam.


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## JSCh

*HK violence: 15 underage protesters held*
By China Daily | chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2019-08-27 20:11
















Radical protesters attack police officers with metal rods at an unauthorized assembly in Hong Kong on Sunday. [Photo/China Daily]

A total of 15 juveniles, aged between 12 and 15, have been arrested for their suspected roles in the protests against the now-abandoned extradition bill, Hong Kong Police Force said on Tuesday.

According to the police, the offences include unlawful assembly, assaulting police officer, obstructing police officer, loitering, possession of offensive weapons, and possession of instrument fit for unlawful purposes.

The youngest among the 15 protesters was arrested for unlawful assembly. He had just finished his elementary schooling and was about to start junior high school in the upcoming academic year.

Li Chi-lam, principal of Lingnan Hang Yee Memorial Secondary School, confirmed on social network that a student of the school was arrested on August 25.

Under the Juvenile Offenders Ordinance, no child aged between 10 and 13 can be sentenced to imprisonment; and no person aged between 14 and 15 can be sentenced to imprisonment if that person can be suitably dealt with in any other way.

Ho Hon-kuen, chairman of Education Convergence, said he was saddened to see underage taking part in those illegal assemblies. He added the incident rang an alarm bell in the education sector, which should draw an in-depth reflection on liberal studies.

Liberal Studies is a required subject in the Diploma of Secondary Education curriculum. The subject, intended to cultivate critical thinking and positive values, has come under fire for not serving that purpose.


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## lcloo

https://tv.on.cc/hk/index.html?i=ONS190908-14771-12-M&d=1567922961


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## Brainsucker

Viet said:


> Don’t fall into the trap of propaganda. There are certain radicals in the PLA that seek a reason for sending in tanks.
> 
> That are the same nuts that seek a war against Vietnam.



So, are you saying that it is okay for underage Children to join political protest? Don't you know that political protests have a possibility to become violence? Have you read the news about "Jakarta 22nd May 2019 Violence" from news, where there are children who dead in the fight between Protesters and police? Don't you think that it is already to be considered as Child Abuse? The who were the wrong in that event? The protestor commitee who allow Children to join, or Police who protect themselves from Monotov bomb, arrow, bamboo spears, and stone throwing?

If such a protest happen in Vietnam, and there are several Children killed because of it, then what will you feel?

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## Nan Yang

Mista said:


> You think it's the protesters who did it?



Quote
The woman in the video did not talk about her condition, *nor did she mention the cause of her eye injury*.
*
Hong Kong protests: woman who suffered eye injury in violent protest engages lawyers to block police’s attempt to seek her medical records*

Protesters say woman was hit by a police beanbag round, but force refuses to take blame without probe and obtains search warrant to get medical reports
Sources reveal she has engaged lawyers to block police attempts





The woman suffered a serious eye injury during a violent showdown between protesters and police in Tsim Sha Tsui on August 11. Photo: AFP

A young woman who suffered a serious eye injury during a violent protest in Hong Kong in August has sought legal help to block a police bid to access her medical reports, the _Post_ has learned.

Two legal sources revealed on Sunday that lawyers had been engaged to deal with the objection, but they declined to disclose any further details.

“To my knowledge, no legal proceedings have begun,” a lawyer familiar with the matter said.

The woman has become one of the main icons of Hong Kong’s protests that have been roiling for almost three months and she has featured on anti-government posters and slogans as a testament to “police brutality”.

Protesters say she was hit by a police beanbag round during a violent showdown in Tsim Sha Tsui on August 11, but the force is not taking the blame pending an investigation, even suggesting she was hit by a projectile from a protester’s catapult.

The injured woman and her family have ignored police efforts to get hold of her medical reports, prompting the force to obtain a search warrant.

In a video recording released in late August, a woman claiming to be the victim, wearing sunglasses, a mask and with her right eye covered by gauze, urged police to stop violent acts against Hong Kong people.

“As a victim of police brutality myself, I hereby issue my strongest condemnation of the force,” she said in the video played during a press conference convened by anti-government protesters.

The woman in the video did not talk about her condition, nor did she mention the cause of her eye injury.

A spokesman for the Hospital Authority said without the patient’s consent, it would not comment on details of a police follow-up.

“We have an established procedure for handling applications for medical records at public hospitals,” he added.

“We urge the injured woman to contact investigating officers and provide information on her injuries,” a police spokesman said.





Opposition lawmaker James To said the woman might be afraid police would leak her information to others. Photo: Winson Wong

Opposition lawmaker James To Kun-sun, of the Democratic Party, declined to speculate on the woman’s motives.

“There are many reasons why she may not want her medical reports given to police. She is the victim in the case and if she has not reported it, the police should not have power to get her medical report for investigation,” he said.

“We cannot jump to the conclusion that the victim has intentionally played tricks. She might just want to take more time until she recovers before she contacts police. Or she might simply have no confidence in the force, fearing her information could be leaked to others.

“But that does not mean she is giving up her legal rights. She can still take civil action later to sue for compensation.”

Barrister Lawrence Ma Yan-kwok, chairman of the Beijing-friendly Hong Kong Legal Exchange Foundation, said: “Generally, criminal law requires the victim to be the complainant to start an investigation. If [the woman] does not complain, it is difficult to see how an investigation can carry on.”

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## TruthTheOnlyDefense

*Hong Kong police close Tung Chung MTR station*


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## gangsta_rap

@TruthTheOnlyDefense hey cracker, you want some of this out in australia too?

whites like you really like it when folks start getting riled up in other countries. for some funny reason honkeys just hate it when it happens on their turf.


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## Mista

Nan Yang said:


> Quote
> The woman in the video did not talk about her condition, *nor did she mention the cause of her eye injury*.
> *
> Hong Kong protests: woman who suffered eye injury in violent protest engages lawyers to block police’s attempt to seek her medical records*
> 
> Protesters say woman was hit by a police beanbag round, but force refuses to take blame without probe and obtains search warrant to get medical reports
> Sources reveal she has engaged lawyers to block police attempts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman suffered a serious eye injury during a violent showdown between protesters and police in Tsim Sha Tsui on August 11. Photo: AFP
> 
> A young woman who suffered a serious eye injury during a violent protest in Hong Kong in August has sought legal help to block a police bid to access her medical reports, the _Post_ has learned.
> 
> Two legal sources revealed on Sunday that lawyers had been engaged to deal with the objection, but they declined to disclose any further details.
> 
> “To my knowledge, no legal proceedings have begun,” a lawyer familiar with the matter said.
> 
> The woman has become one of the main icons of Hong Kong’s protests that have been roiling for almost three months and she has featured on anti-government posters and slogans as a testament to “police brutality”.
> 
> Protesters say she was hit by a police beanbag round during a violent showdown in Tsim Sha Tsui on August 11, but the force is not taking the blame pending an investigation, even suggesting she was hit by a projectile from a protester’s catapult.
> 
> The injured woman and her family have ignored police efforts to get hold of her medical reports, prompting the force to obtain a search warrant.
> 
> In a video recording released in late August, a woman claiming to be the victim, wearing sunglasses, a mask and with her right eye covered by gauze, urged police to stop violent acts against Hong Kong people.
> 
> “As a victim of police brutality myself, I hereby issue my strongest condemnation of the force,” she said in the video played during a press conference convened by anti-government protesters.
> 
> The woman in the video did not talk about her condition, nor did she mention the cause of her eye injury.
> 
> A spokesman for the Hospital Authority said without the patient’s consent, it would not comment on details of a police follow-up.
> 
> “We have an established procedure for handling applications for medical records at public hospitals,” he added.
> 
> “We urge the injured woman to contact investigating officers and provide information on her injuries,” a police spokesman said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opposition lawmaker James To said the woman might be afraid police would leak her information to others. Photo: Winson Wong
> 
> Opposition lawmaker James To Kun-sun, of the Democratic Party, declined to speculate on the woman’s motives.
> 
> “There are many reasons why she may not want her medical reports given to police. She is the victim in the case and if she has not reported it, the police should not have power to get her medical report for investigation,” he said.
> 
> “We cannot jump to the conclusion that the victim has intentionally played tricks. She might just want to take more time until she recovers before she contacts police. Or she might simply have no confidence in the force, fearing her information could be leaked to others.
> 
> “But that does not mean she is giving up her legal rights. She can still take civil action later to sue for compensation.”
> 
> Barrister Lawrence Ma Yan-kwok, chairman of the Beijing-friendly Hong Kong Legal Exchange Foundation, said: “Generally, criminal law requires the victim to be the complainant to start an investigation. If [the woman] does not complain, it is difficult to see how an investigation can carry on.”



That's indeed suspicious.


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## TruthTheOnlyDefense

*



*
*Demonstrators march peacefully, but clashes with police erupt at other protest sites*

HONG KONG • Hong Kong police fired tear gas to disperse protesters in the upmarket Causeway Bay shopping district yesterday, after demonstrators rallied at the United States consulate calling for help in bringing democracy to the Chinese-ruled city.

Tens of thousands marched peacefully to the US consulate in a gathering that stretched for blocks in every direction. Waving the American flag, they sang The Star-Spangled Banner and called on US President Donald Trump to "liberate" the city.

"Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong," they shouted before handing over petitions at the US consulate. "Resist Beijing, liberate Hong Kong."

The protesters' call for the US to intervene in the crisis is sure to infuriate Beijing, which has accused some countries of interference in China's internal affairs.

The vandalism started in the evening. Activists put up barricades, smashed windows, started street fires and vandalised the MTR metro station in Central.

The Central district, home to banks, jewellery shops and luxury shopping arcades, was awash in graffiti, broken glass and bricks torn up from pathways.

Protesters set fires using cardboard boxes and built barricades with metal fencing.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/tens-of-thousands-of-hk-protesters-rally-at-us-consulate

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## Path-Finder

idiots they have just made things difficult for the yanks or its a Chinese ploy. lets go with its a Chinese ploy


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## bbccdd1470

Brainsucker said:


> If it's true, then Hongkong Police must act quickly, to protect those children!


If you can read Chinese, read that news. Fanny Law, a member of HK Exceutive Council, has confirmed this is a true case. There should have more cases like this, just have not reported yet, a tip of iceberg.

羅范又稱已確認真有此事：「我聽到有人談及有關免費性愛之事，我相信我們已確認是真有此事，我們對於這些少女被誤導而提供免費性愛感到悲哀。（I heard somebody talking about free sex. I think we have confirmed that this is a true case. I am so sad to these young girls, who has been misled into offering free sex.）」

https://www.hk01.com/政情/373106/逃犯條例-羅范椒芬-少女被誤導-為-勇武派-提供免費性服務


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## Nan Yang

*Hong Kong protests: police given medical reports of woman with eye injury despite her bid to block move*

Police earlier obtained a search warrant after woman and her family ignored their efforts to get hold of her medical records
Force now reviewing information but statement from the witness is most important, senior officer says
Hong Kong police have been given the medical records of a young woman who suffered a serious eye injury during a violent protest despite her attempt to legally block the move.

Police earlier obtained a search warrant from a court after the woman and her family ignored their efforts to get hold of her medical reports. It was later reported that the woman had issued a legal letter through her lawyers to the Hospital Authority to block the police’s bid.

The woman has become an icon of the anti-government protests that have roiled Hong Kong for more than three months and has featured on posters and slogans as a testament to “police brutality”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...otests-police-given-medical-reports-woman-eye


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## Galactic Penguin SST

Menthol said:


> Veronica Koman with Joshua Wong.
> 
> Both are agents of CIA.
> 
> The next episode after HK is Indonesia.
> 
> 
> Traitors!!!



*China summons German envoy over Hong Kong activist meeting*

Wed Sep 11, 2019

China’s ambassador to Berlin says Beijing has summoned the German envoy to protest a meeting between Germany’s Foreign Minister Heiko Maas and Hong Kong activist Joshua Wong, warning that the encounter could negatively affect bilateral relations.

Wong arrived in Berlin on Monday night. He was received by the German diplomat amid ongoing protests in the semi-autonomous region, which Beijing blames on foreign forces.

Ambassador Wu Ken told reporters on Wednesday, “What happened now, I unfortunately have to say, will have negative consequences on bilateral relations and the Chinese side has to react.”

“After his arrival we took note that unfortunately certain politicians - and I will say very openly that it is Foreign Minister Maas himself - as well as some members of parliament met with Joshua Wong,” the Chinese ambassador said.

“We don’t know what goal these politicians have. Are they actually seriously concerned about Hong Kong’s freedom, democracy and rule of law or they want to add fuel to the fire and thereby make political capital out of it?”

The Chinese envoy stressed that Beijing had sufficient evidence that foreign forces have intervened in Hong Kong demonstrations.

China has said foreign countries, mainly the United States and Britain, have been provoking the protesters by issuing statements of support. Beijing has asked the two countries to stop meddling in Hong Kong’s affairs.

“China’s sovereignty and security must be respected. I therefore advise politicians against covering up violent crimes and meddling with Hong Kong’s and China’s internal affairs,” Wu Ken said on Wednesday.

Unrest began in Hong Kong in June, when people started taking to the streets to protest a proposed bill that would have allowed suspects to be extradited and stand trial abroad.

The bill was suspended later that month in the wake of the unrest. The protesters have, however, rejected the suspension, calling for a full withdrawal of the measure. The demonstrations have also expanded into a broader backlash against the government and calls for the city’s pro-China leader to step down.

Earlier this month, Chief Executive of Hong Kong Carrie Lam announced that the unpopular extradition bill would be withdrawn at the next session of the city’s Legislative Council, scheduled for next month. Lam expressed hope that the annulment of the bill would end the unrest.

The move, however, failed to calm the demonstrators.

The protesters’ other demands include retraction of the word “riot” to describe demonstrations and the release of all those arrested during the rallies.

Hong Kong has been governed under a “one-country, two-system” model since the city, a former British colony, was returned to China in 1997.






https://archive.is/cWQz8/d3b6b6f4502c1464498e223c5b508f152770e949.jpg ; https://archive.is/cWQz8/c58a09146191a54c6aed926b059220fe1995f1f7/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20190911...0911/a2defbc5-b489-4dc3-94c5-78d73b852502.jpg 
▲ 1. Hong Kong activist Joshua Wong, left, shakes hands with German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas as they attend the "Bild100" event organised by Germany's tabloid Bild on September 9, 2019 in Berlin. 


http://web.archive.org/web/20190911...019/09/11/605928/China-German-envoy-Hong-Kong
http://archive.fo/qvrI9


*Never trust the Germs! Meanwhile, during a recent London demonstration:*






https://archive.is/vT6sG/f308596e8de5e03236254859b534fb9762566658 ; http://web.archive.org/web/20190906...=0b16250292f1afa9264fa8e4f236a90a&oe=5DF64293 ; http://archive.fo/t3Yzs 
▲ 2.  During a recent London demonstration.


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## Hamartia Antidote

*Thousands form human chains around HKong schools*


----------



## Dai Toruko

Police in Hong Kong have used tear gas and water cannons to disperse thousands of anti-Beijing protesters on Sunday. Protesters had been marching through the city when police fired water with blue dye at them. Earlier, they demonstrated outside the British Consulate calling on the UK to pressure China. Angela Murphy has more.


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## Hamartia Antidote

*Hong Kong protests: The Taiwanese sending 2,000 gas masks*






Image captionAlex Ko holding a gas mask in a church storage room

Soft-spoken, bespectacled, and based 650km (400 miles) from Hong Kong, Alex Ko is far removed from the widespread protests sweeping the former British colony.

But he's exactly the kind of person China is worried about.

In recent weeks, when protesters were battling police on the streets of Hong Kong demanding universal suffrage, and their freedoms to be preserved by China, Mr Ko, 23, didn't just watch idly online.

He launched a donation drive for gas masks, air filters and helmets at his church.

He's since collected more than 2,000 sets of such gear, and sent them to Hong Kong protesters to protect them against tear gas regularly fired by the police.

"I've never been to Hong Kong, but I feel I have no reason not to care," he says.

"As a Christian, when we see people hurt and attacked, I feel we have to help them. [And] As a Taiwanese, I'm worried we may be next."

While Hong Kong is a former British colony that reverted to Chinese sovereignty in 1997, Taiwan has been ruled separately since the end of the Chinese civil war in 1949. But Beijing sees the island as a province to be reunified with China one day - by force if necessary.

Fears that China will one day control Taiwan, turning it into the next Hong Kong, have made Taiwan's government and people the strongest supporters of Hong Kong's protesters.

Taiwan's government has repeatedly urged Beijing and Hong Kong's authorities to respond positively to protesters' demand for democracy - and fulfil their promises of maintaining freedoms and autonomy.

And Taiwanese people - while previously more concerned about Hong Kong's Cantopop and dim sum - have turned out in increasingly large numbers to show support for the anti-extradition-turned-pro-democracy movement.




Image copyrightEPA
Image captionAround 300 students in Taipei formed a human chain to support the Hong Kong protesters in August
"Even though Taiwan is separated from China by the Taiwan Strait, our political status is not a Special Administrative Region like Hong Kong," Mr Ko says.

"We are not a part of China, it could invade us one day. By joining forces [with Hong Kong], we are stronger. One day we might need their help too."

Beijing meanwhile has accused Taiwan, along with the United States, of being "black hands" fomenting the protests.

While there's no evidence of Taiwan helping to organise or fund the protests at a state level, there has been contact between activists since Hong Kong's Umbrella Movement and Taiwan's Sunflower Movement in 2014. Both stemmed from fears of Beijing rolling back democracy in their respective societies.

Hong Kong democracy activists, such as Joshua Wong, have visited Taiwan to meet Taiwan's activists. The founding of Mr Wong's Demosisto party was reportedly inspired by Taiwan's New Power Party.

The recent storming and trashing of Hong Kong's parliament also mirrored a similar incident in Taipei, Taiwan's capital. And Taiwan's ruling party and an opposition party recently voiced support for granting asylum to Hong Kong protesters who need it.

This joining of hands by Hong Kong and Taiwan could mean double the trouble for Beijing. But not everyone thinks Taiwan will be the next Hong Kong.

"Taiwan has independence and democracy; what Hong Kong people are fighting for, we already have - universal suffrage," says Yen Hsiao-lien, a retired lawyer.

She and others want reduced tensions with Beijing and peaceful coexistence. They worry the Hong Kong protests will help Taiwan's President Tsai Ing-wen - whose administration is seen by many as unnecessarily making relations with Beijing worse - win a second term in next January's presidential race.

Since the protests, President Tsai's approval ratings have risen significantly. President Tsai, from the pro-Taiwan independence ruling Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), is ahead of Han Kuo-yu from the opposition Kuomintang (KMT).

None of this is lost on Beijing, says academic Andy Chang.

Partly because of fears of President Tsai being re-elected, Beijing was willing to withdraw Hong Kong's extradition bill in early September when faced with large-scale protests, Mr Chang says.

"It [the Chinese government] doesn't want to give Tsai Ing-wen more advantage in the upcoming election," he says.

But China's leaders will only give in so much. They are more concerned about their biggest perceived threat - instability and challenges to their power from within.

They think democracy movements could destabilise the country, usurp their power - or become tools for their rivals to oust them.

"They feel if they totally accept the protesters' demands, it will release the floodgates and make other places in the mainland become unstable. After all, the kid who cries gets candy," says Mr Chang.

"It doesn't want to show that people who use forceful methods to make their demands will get Beijing's support. This is totally different from how leaders in a democratic society think."

Increasingly, Beijing is taking action to discourage Taiwanese people from supporting their neighbour's fight for freedom and self-rule.

Recently, Chinese authorities arrested Taiwanese businessman Lee Meng-chu on suspicion of taking part in activities that threaten national security. Mr Lee's friends say he is an ordinary small trading company owner who simply visited Hong Kong protesters to cheer them up, two days before crossing the border into mainland China.

But, in a show of defiance, Taiwanese people have helped previously detained Hong Kong bookseller Lam Wing-kee raise money to reopen his Causeway Bay bookstore in Taipei.

His Hong Kong store sold politically sensitive books about Chinese leaders and mailed them to the mainland, which led to him and four colleagues to be detained in 2015. The store was later shut down. Mr Lam fled to Taiwan in April, because of the extradition bill.

In just the past week, Taiwanese donors helped him raise more than $5.4m Taiwanese dollars ($174,000; £140,000) in his crowdfunding campaign - nearly double his funding goal.

Slowly but surely, the people of Hong Kong and Taiwan see their fate as tied.

They are the only two places in Greater China that have tasted freedom - and some believe by joining forces, they could show the Chinese leadership and people how much democracy is worth fighting for.

But Mr Ko advises Hong Kong's protesters to use non-violent means, and learn from Taiwan's experience of using peaceful methods to achieve democracy.

"I think peaceful methods are necessary for the protesters," he says. "It might help them to think about what kind of [society] they want Hong Kong to become - safe and peaceful, or violent."


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## Hamartia Antidote

*100 days of protests in Hong Kong*


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Ungrateful Hong Kong folks 
Once they will see the world , after they are kicked out exiled they will realize how the world will treat them outside China

To have chance to be holding Chinese Passport , and unlimited support from Chinese Government these protestors are just delusional 

They do realize China , gave territory to UK under a past treaty but it was not forever

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## Path-Finder

I see some resemblance with the yellow vest or the planner behind it is the same.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Their is almost 0% coverage of yellow vest protest ....in my part of western world
French are keeping a tight lip on their dirty laundry

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## Götterdämmerung

Path-Finder said:


> I see some resemblance with the yellow vest or the planner behind it is the same.



This has nothing to do with yellow vest protest in France, that's why our mainstream media is mute about what has been happening in Paris. Both protests are in fact standing in opposition.

Hong Hong riots are supported by the banking cartel, French yellow vest protests are against the banking cartel!

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## -=virus=-

F35 said:


> Anti-government protesters



Finally, Hitler and the nazis makes an appearance in Hong Kong.

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## Path-Finder

Götterdämmerung said:


> This has nothing to do with yellow vest protest in France, that's why our mainstream media is mute about what has been happening in Paris. Both protests are in fact standing in opposition.
> 
> Hong Hong riots are supported by the banking cartel, French yellow vest protests are against the banking cartel!


Thanks for the clarification.


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## beijingwalker

Why all of them need to cover their faces? they are ashamed of themselves?


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## mudas777

Supported by western countries to create mayhem and instability in HK to contain China. That level of vandalism and criminal activity is not acceptable in any society. Hope China send the police from the main land and all those masked tugs should be caught and tried in the main land, on one of basis case and see how protestors balloon will burst.

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## aziqbal

Do you really blame them?

Look what China is doing to the Ughairs peaceful Muslims who never even threaten China have been put into concentration camps for no reason

Taiwan is next I think

China should not endorse stupid policy’s to cause unrest, they lite fire now wait until fire dies down

China is at fault

and btw I am pro-China


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## maximuswarrior

This is obviously being orchestrated from the outside. The Chinese government is treading very carefully, but the silky gloves need to come off now. These Hong Kong rioters are disturbing peace and stability. This has nothing to do with peaceful protesting.

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## CHACHA"G"

I use to thought How will china go to war with US and west …….. Now reason is here ……. This issue will lead to war one day , China is not any other country were west funded revolution can come..

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## maximuswarrior

Götterdämmerung said:


> This has nothing to do with yellow vest protest in France, that's why our mainstream media is mute about what has been happening in Paris. Both protests are in fact standing in opposition.
> 
> Hong Hong riots are supported by the banking cartel, French yellow vest protests are against the banking cartel!



Yep the European and Western media in general is absolutely mute about yellow vest protests which are ongoing.

The focus is now to defame and damage China as much as possible. They are all united. Look at the media reporting.

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## beijingwalker

China didn't do anything and doesn't seem to be interest in doing anything in Hong kong, maybe China thinks it's just a city, let them fight it out by themselves, eventually pro China public will win anyway, students eventually need to go back to schools or they'll kill their own career path.



aziqbal said:


> China is at fault
> 
> and btw I am pro-China


What did China do to cause the riot? Do some research before speaking.

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## Hamartia Antidote




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## Holmes

Long live revolution!


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## Globenim

maximuswarrior said:


> Yep the European and Western media in general is absolutely mute about yellow vest protests which are ongoing.
> 
> The focus is now to defame and damage China as much as possible. They are all united. Look at the media reporting.


There is no doubt some of them are doubling down on the anti-China rethoric and encouraging violence and division in China, exactly because things are threatening to get out of hand in so called "democratic" pillar countries which raises doubt about their own system and delusions of greater freedoms and stability.

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## OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd

aziqbal said:


> Uighurs
> ... ...
> and btw I am pro-China



I am shocked ...
~ how can U *be so blind* and *be so gullible* and be
*so easily brainwashed by CIA* cronies & *slaves* ??

Do research all the Uighur fact first, ... instead of jumping into a hasty conclusion and
listening to one sided argument from the Uighurs Slaves who have been bought by CIA.

Just because your religion is the same as the Uighurs ( same Sunni Muslim individu )
~ it does not mean All Sunni MUSLIM can be trusted 1000% all the time.

If they are a *SHIA Muslim from IRAN*, then it *means they must be lying*.
Is this how your brain process & differentiate ... trusted info or fake info ??

===

90% of Uighurs *Murica Sunni Slaves* leaders are hiding in around *Langley, Virginia *
close to *CIA headquarter* on the Land of *#1 Global Criminal nation*,
... the Urinated Cockroaches Murica.

Do U think ... this is coincidence ??

Have U been travelling to XINJIANG, PRC ... and carefully exploring the 85% Uighurs
communities who are absolutely supporting PRC ?


*Check this picture of Rebiya Kadeer 
* ( #1 Uighur FEMALE * Terrorist Leader )* below ...







===

*Caught with the idiotic Neocon ~ George Dumb Dumb Bush*


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## Enigma SIG

What does the law say about traitors in China? Anyone trampling and desecrating a flag should be dealt with iron fists.

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## Beast

aziqbal said:


> Do you really blame them?
> 
> Look what China is doing to the Ughairs peaceful Muslims who never even threaten China have been put into concentration camps for no reason
> 
> Taiwan is next I think
> 
> China should not endorse stupid policy’s to cause unrest, they lite fire now wait until fire dies down
> 
> China is at fault
> 
> and btw I am pro-China


Peaceful Uyghur separatist?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack

*Witnesses recall fear, chaos after China train station attack*

https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN16848H
*
Isis Uighurs threaten ‘rivers of blood’ in China*

You need to read more better coverage news about China to know who is right and wrong. I doubt you are pro China when China is under attack of terrorist sponsor by foreign countries which you failed to recognised. Claiming those terrorist as peaceful are an insult to all Chinese.


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## OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd

Enigma SIG said:


> What does the law say about traitors in China? Anyone trampling and desecrating a flag should be dealt with iron fists.



I hope all CCTV cameras in Hong Kong are working well.
*All these Loser rioters caught by the CCTV camera 
will have ZERO future in PRC*.

They all will be tracked by *PRC Social Credit Big Data AI*
* *using their unique face and unique physical gait*.

All these Loser rioters have better start committing mass suicides and 
burn themselves up to dust while covering their bodies with 
their most beloved the Urinated Cockroaches Murica flag or the British flag.

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## beijingwalker

They'll pay for it with blood.

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## aziqbal

Ok so ughair stabbed two people at train station and China put 1 million in concentration camps?

Have you not learnt anything from western countries

You are radicalising the next generation of ughairs

We want a strong and powerful China

We don’t want a China who started stupid policy’s and started punishing its own citizens Instead of fighting it’s real enemy’s

Historically china’s fall happens due to internal chaos and that’s when millions die due to a bad move of the leaders who failed to see the consequences of their actions

No extradition bill no unrest in HK simple


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## -=virus=-




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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> Historically china’s fall happens due to internal chaos and that’s when millions die due to a bad move of the leaders who failed to see the consequences of their actions
> 
> No extradition bill no unrest in HK simple



Historically every country's fall happens due to internal chaos and that’s when millions die due to a bad move of the leaders who failed to see the consequences of their actions. But not every country's leaders can realize their mistakes and correct them in time.

China didn't propose the extradition bill, that's Hong kong local government's bill.

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## Menthol

Beast said:


> Peaceful Uyghur separatist?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
> 
> *Witnesses recall fear, chaos after China train station attack*
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN16848H
> *
> Isis Uighurs threaten ‘rivers of blood’ in China*
> 
> You need to read more better coverage news about China to know who is right and wrong. I doubt you are pro China when China is under attack of terrorist sponsor by foreign countries which you failed to recognised. Claiming those terrorist as peaceful are an insult to all Chinese.



I don't understand about this terrorist sanity.

Others actually have a much bigger gun than them.

Not only just a river of blood, but total annihilation.

The only reason why others don't attack, is because they have sanity and compassion.


This terrorist is an idiot or a smart devil?

I just can't imagine they hide behind religion name.

Everything is the opposite of religious teaching.

One of the Dajjal?


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## 8888888888888

They actually stole stuff from the Mall they were 'protesting' at.


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## beijingwalker

Hong Kong protesters desecrate China flag & ransack Sha Tin shopping mall


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## aziqbal

Again very stupid policy by China which will again one day back fire

There’s 30 million Ughars if 15 people were stabbed at train station does that mean China imprisons 1.5 million people ?

That’s like English foot ball fans causing trouble in France and French detain whole population of London because 15 people did something bad?

Next generation of Ughars will surely revenge this and China is only radicalising them further

This is how USSR collapses Russia used to do this to its own citizens then in 1991 they all rioted


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## Hamartia Antidote

*Tear gas, petrol bombs and mass arrests in Hong Kong on 17th straight weekend of protests*


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## aziqbal

China needs to step down otherwise all those decades of hard work of building their country is about to go down the drain 

China get your act together in HK and with Ughurs, both are not Chinese keep it under 1 country 2 systems why change it if it works


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## ChineseTiger1986

aziqbal said:


> Again very stupid policy by China which will again one day back fire
> 
> There’s 30 million Ughars if 15 people were stabbed at train station does that mean China imprisons 1.5 million people ?
> 
> That’s like English foot ball fans causing trouble in France and French detain whole population of London because 15 people did something bad?
> 
> Next generation of Ughars will surely revenge this and China is only radicalising them further
> 
> This is how USSR collapses Russia used to do this to its own citizens then in 1991 they all rioted



China didn't imprison over million of Uighurs, since it is impossible to maintain a prison camp of that size.

Those are broken records keep being repeated by the western media.


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## Mista

*HK police under fire: A lesson on how public trust in Singapore’s security forces can fade fast*

SINGAPORE — The backlash that the Hong Kong police are facing over its handling of ongoing protests in the city is an example of how trust in law enforcement officers can erode very quickly if not managed well, said Law and Home Affairs Minister K Shanmugam.

He also warned that here in Singapore, even though surveys show that most people trusted its Home Team officers, this should not be taken for granted.

Speaking on Monday (Sept 30) at an awards presentation ceremony for the Home Team officers, which include police, civil defence and immigration officers, Mr Shanmugam described the Hong Kong police as a “disciplined, highly professional” force and one of the best in Asia.

Yet that reputation has disappeared in a matter of a “few weeks” and its relationship with the Hong Kong people has become “severely strained”.

He attributed this shift in perception to the many different narratives propagated by the Hong Kong and international media, as well as social media platforms, which have their own agendas and bias — and these have been unfairly critical of the police, he said.

He added: “Unfortunately, much of this is one-sided. Protesters are always put forward in a positive light — they are democracy fighters. The police are put forward in a negative light frequently. Bricks are thrown at them, they are attacked — these are not captured. Their responses are captured.

“It has become a people-versus-police situation, and that’s very deliberate because what you see in the media is often women being identified as victims; old people against policemen in full gear.”

Over the past 17 weeks, Hong Kong has been besieged by protests taking place mainly over the weekends. They started off as demonstrations against a now-withdrawn extradition bill, a law which would have allowed criminal suspects to be sent to mainland China for trial in courts controlled by the Communist Party.

These demonstrations have since evolved to greater calls for democracy and freedom from China’s seemingly tighter control over the city.

The Hong Kong police, which have been clashing with the protesters, have been accused of using disproportionate force when shooting tear gas and pepper spray against them and journalists.

Mr Shanmugam said that the situation in Hong Kong has taught him three key lessons.

*First, only a government and its policies can solve political and socio-economic problems. *These cannot be solved with agencies such as the police, which should be used only to solve tactical problems.

“Those problems are strategic issues, housing issues, socio-economic issues. They cannot be dealt with as if they’re tactical issues like in the police over there (in Hong Kong) and… the protestors. You'll never solve the problems. The responsibility starts with the government to get the basic issues right in society,” he said.

“If the politics is not right, then no amount of policing is going to help and the police cannot deal with it. If the fundamental issues are wrong, and 10,000 people go on the streets every day or every week, no police force, I think, can deal with it, including in Singapore.”

*The second lesson is that it is important to communicate that the government minister in charge has the primary responsibility of handling clashes between law enforcement officers and the public*, Mr Shanmugam said.

Referring to a ministerial statement he made in Parliament in 2016 — on the case of 14-year-old Benjamin Lim who committed suicide a day after he was questioned by the police for allegedly molesting a girl — Mr Shanmugam said the ministry should take responsibility for operational policies and ground officers are just acting in accordance with the protocols set in place.

“And ultimately, responsibility for that is with me personally as the minister. It is not with the individual police officers,” he added.

The police and the public have to know that this responsibility falls on the people right at the top. The government needs to communicate and explain what is happening and the reasons why ground officers are responding in a certain way.

“(It is) not with the individual officers facing the public on the ground… Operationally, if they do something wrong, of course they will take responsibility,” Mr Shanmugam said.

*The third lesson is that situational updates are extremely important during protests to keep the public fully informed and in a timely way.*

The ability to disseminate videos and pictures to the ground is also important. “If you leave an information void, the public will turn to unverified sources and rumours. You will get misleading stuff, distorted information, falsehoods, and a picture will be painted,” Mr Shanmugam said.

Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapo...rust-singapores-security-forces-can-fade-fast


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## bbccdd1470

Latest news, one injured with a police shooting. HK is full of chaos today.


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## Mista

*Police shoot teen protester as Hong Kong violence escalates
Hong Kong police fired tear gas and water cannon at petrol-bomb throwing protesters and shot a young demonstrator with a live round, as the city’s Chinese rulers celebrated the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic.*

Cat-and-mouse clashes spread from the upmarket district of Causeway Bay to the Admiralty area that is home to government offices on Hong Kong island, with police vans chasing down pro-democracy protesters in the key drag of Hennessy Road.

Thousands of black-clad protesters, some wearing Guy Fawkes masks, marched on Admiralty, defying a police ban. Violence escalated across the harbor to Kowloon and beyond to the New Territories in the most widespread unrest in nearly four months.

“There are rioting acts across Kowloon, Hong Kong island and the New Territories,” police said in a statement.

An 18-year-old man was shot in the shoulder with a live round in the Tsuen Wan area, police said. They did not give more details. The South China Morning Post and television reports had earlier reported a protester was shot at close range in the chest.

Video footage of a police officer firing at a protester at close range went viral, but its authenticity could not immediately be verified.

Police said 31 people had been wounded across the territory on Tuesday, two critically, without giving details.

Nearly four months of street clashes and demonstrations have plunged the former British colony into its biggest political crisis in decades and pose the most serious popular challenge to President Xi Jinping since he came to power.

Protesters had vowed to seize the opportunity on China’s National Day to propel their calls for greater democracy onto the international stage, hijacking an occasion Beijing sees as an opportunity to showcase China’s economic and military progress.

“I’m not young, but if we don’t march now, we’ll never have the chance to speak again, it’s as simple as that,” said one marcher near Causeway Bay, a 42-year-old woman with her own logistics company who identified herself as Li.

*CHINESE BUSINESSES TARGETED*

By the afternoon, police and protesters were involved in stand-offs across Hong Kong, with the streets littered with tear gas canisters and other debris. The violence spread after nightfall.

Police fired water cannon and volley after volley of tear gas to disperse protesters throwing Molotov cocktails outside central government offices in the Admiralty area and ordered the evacuation of the Legislative Council building next door.

Petrol bombs were also thrown at MTR metro stations, including at Causeway Bay and Admiralty. Many stations were closed to stop protesters moving around. Shutting stations has made them a common target for attack during the weeks of unrest.

Tai Wai station, in the New Territories, was trashed, with a fire hose left turned on, flooding the tiled floors.

Police said “rioters” had used corrosive fluid in Tuen Mun in the west of the New Territories, “injuring multiple police officers and reporters”. No details were immediately available.

Chinese banks and Chinese-backed businesses were targeted with petrol bombs and anti-China graffiti. Local broadcaster RTHK said it was pulling all its reporters away from the violence after one was hit on the head.

*BIRTHDAY PARADE*

The territory has been tense for weeks, with protests often turning violent, as authorities tried to avoid activists spoiling Beijing’s birthday parade at a time when the central government is already grappling with a U.S.-China trade war and a slowing economy.

Hundreds of officials and members of Hong Kong’s pro-establishment elite began the day with a flag-raising ceremony and National Day reception at the Convention and Exhibition Centre, held early and moved behind closed doors. Roads to the center were closed and tightly policed.

Hong Kong had benefited from China’s support under the “one country, two systems” policy, Acting Chief Executive Matthew Cheung told the assembly, referring to guarantees of political freedoms after the city’s handover from British to Chinese rule in 1997.

But he said escalating violence was disrupting social order and hurting the economy.

The government of embattled leader Carrie Lam has already canceled an annual Oct. 1 fireworks display over the city’s Victoria Harbour, citing public safety.

Lam, who was trapped in a stadium for hours last week after attending the “open dialogue”, left for Beijing on Monday to celebrate China’s birthday on the mainland. She will return on Tuesday.

In contrast to events in Hong Kong, Beijing’s carefully choreographed anniversary festivities included troops marching through part of Tiananmen Square with new missiles and floats celebrating the country’s technological prowess.

Lam was shown on television smiling as a float celebrating Hong Kong went past as she sat with Chinese officials.

The Communist Party leadership is determined to project an image of national strength and unity in the face of challenges including Hong Kong’s unrest.

“On our journey forward, we must uphold the principles of peaceful reunification and one country, two systems; maintain lasting prosperity and stability in Hong Kong and Macau ... and continue to strive for the motherland’s complete reunification,” Xi said in a nationally televised speech in Beijing.

Hong Kong protesters are angry about what they see as creeping Chinese interference in the Asian financial center.

China dismisses the accusation and has accused foreign governments, including the United States and Britain, of fanning anti-China sentiment.

https://reut.rs/2o6UMsa


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## Hamartia Antidote

Mista said:


> *Police shoot teen protester as Hong Kong violence escalates*



Unfortunately...but they were throwing stuff (which I doubt was flowers)




*Hong Kong protester shot in chest during demonstrations on China's 70th anniversary*

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## Nilgiri

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Unfortunately...but they were throwing stuff (which I doubt was flowers)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hong Kong protester shot in chest during demonstrations on China's 70th anniversary*



WTF....is that a webley revolver?


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## Zulfiqar

Hamartia Antidote said:


> *Hong Kong protester shot in chest during demonstrations on China's 70th anniversary*



Conveniently forgetting that the protestors were ganging up and beating a cop resulting in his buddy coming up to rescue him from the mob. May be he should have been shot with that shotgun instead (although using live rounds like the revolver).


In america the whole lot would be shot during a routine traffic stop if they even tried to step out of the vehicle.

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## tower9

If these HK protesters were doing what they have been doing in Downtown Manhattan for months, over 100 of them would've been killed by now. US cops don't **** around. If they even walked down the street with a mask and a stick, they'd be shot dead. 

These HK cops have been using kiddie gloves.

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## bbccdd1470

Here are the two videos to show what exactly happen in the shooting incident, including what happened before the shooting and after. For people are too lazy to watch: A group of rioters were actually assaulting another police officer, then a police officer, who shot the rioter, came to recuse his colleague but also got assaulted by rioters. Then shooting happened, after that the shooting you could see from the video that a molotovl bomb was thrown to the police. The shooting I believe is lawful and justified in HK and also in Western counties.

One thing worth to mention that the private information and identity of the police officer, who shot the rioter, have been posted to the HK internet by the BT. There are around 1000 case of police's private and their family's information have been leaked to internet. This is not only limited to the police but also people with different opinions. There are cases that the BT would use the information to bully their children (police) at school and come to their work place (normal people) to cause trouble.

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## beijingwalker




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## Dai Toruko

A Hong Kong police officer shot an 18-year-old protester with a live round on the worst day of protests in the city, prompting angry rallies, as Beijing marked the 70th anniversary of Communist Party rule.


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## JSCh

15:21, 04-Oct-2019
*Hong Kong introduces anti-mask law, effective Saturday*
CGTN

Carrie Lam, chief executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and the city's cabinet approved the use of the emergency law to enact anti-mask legislation effective from Saturday, Lam said during a press conference on Friday.


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## bbccdd1470

Another shooting scene on Oct 1st. In fact there were totally 6 shots had been fired that day, but only two scenes had been recorded.


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## Galactic Penguin SST

At first all these smoking guns..


*Germs anti-Islam law (i.e. anti burka), applied to HKer!!!*








17 Aug 2019


The Germany Police asked one Hongkonger to take off his mask when Hongkongers rally in support of Hongkong protest. Usually Hongkong protesters all wear black mask in Hongkong. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162920649674805248

https://twitter.com/Liam_Stone18/status/1162920649674805248

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hong...-news-discussion.623438/page-29#post-11710134​


And finally, after a feigned four months of "weakness" and "leniency", the Empire (read: *Skynet aka The MATRIX*) drops the mask literally, sort of speak! 

What was suspected from day one as the ulterior motive of the Empire is now confirmed.


*MTR stations and bank vandalised as protesters rage against Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam's anti-mask law*

4 Oct, 2019

Hong Kong’s embattled government has announced plans to ban people from wearing masks at public assemblies, as it struggles to control the increasingly violent civil unrest gripping the city.

Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor’s administration, under mounting pressure from its political allies to put a stop to nearly four months of anti-government protests, imposed the ban on Friday through legislation by invoking a tough, colonial-era emergency law that has not been used in more than half a century.

Lam says she did not seek approval from Beijing to implement the law during her recent trip for the National Day celebrations and says legislation is a step towards resolving the situation and restoring stability to Hong Kong.






https://archive.fo/zHH43/6096a5a0a710369676c1ec34cab8b85bc9701e68.jpg ; https://archive.fo/zHH43/a5266c7b232c5d1ad6c1abf890d8ce03031d0d9b/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...c/d8/images/2019/10/04/image_from_ios_167.jpg 
▲ 1. Hong Kong braindead ziombie shills in action, in "criminalizing" the civilian facial mask!


https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...er-carrie-lam-announce-introduction-anti-mask​
Indeed, isolated events might be misleading and often meaningless, while the larger global picture over several decades, covering five continents is indisputable.

In this case, the latest Hong Kong development only echoes what has already been craftily implemented as clumsy tricks in the West and even mainland China! 





CHN Bamboo said:


> You must have been hurt by Muslims.
> 
> Have Muslim ever forced you to buy their Qie Gao(切糕) at a high price?
> 
> 不要说这些会让穆斯林发怒的话。没人希望自己的信仰被怀疑或者剥夺。



This 切糕 (Qiegao) conspiracy is at the core of all current developments in Xinjiang. Note that it used to be called 新疆骗子 in the past.

By searching the words "新疆切糕骗子"(Xinjiang Qiegao scammers) with google or youtube, once again, we see that the West's disinformation machine is enforcing a totalitarian blackout on this topics, in its ongoing proxy-war waged on China.

Meanwhile, searching in mandarin gives therefore a more better idea, such as baidu search: 

*Typical result:*

•新疆切糕是如何骗人的 How does Xinjiang Qiegao deceive people?
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/423891786692329932.html

•为什么新疆人骗人得不到公正的审判？？？他们卖切糕就是不对。 Why do Xinjiang criminals that deceive people can escape a fair trial? ? ? This scam is not right.
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/506906932.html?qbl=relate_question_2


*Soft video -without violent gory ending-*
女子买切糕，发现被骗后要走，被卖方拦下无奈服从 The woman bought the Qiegao and found that she was going to be deceived but was stopped by the seller.
https://v.qq.com/x/page/v0367ht31hs.html​And indeed, for more than two decades, this has been allowed. Most often, the cheated customer ended up beaten by gangs of these professional scammers.

But when security personel at the entrance of long distance bus station for instance, seem to enjoy the beating instead of intervening, then one has the proof that it was from day one a well prepared and executed conspiracy.

*Procedure of the conspiracy*

To conduct nation wide, even in smaller towns, this violent scam, in order to antagonize the ethnic Uyghurs from all the other ethnic groups of China.

Conducted by small group of ethnic Uyghur male, up to ten.

Immunity from prosecution is assured by the authority.

*Objective of the conspiracy*

After one generation, it is expected that all Chinese of age 20 and above will have grown a genuine hostile feeling for ALL Uyghurs, and beyond, for all Muslems. 

Without any sympathy left from the rest of the some 50 Chinese ethic groups, *a ban on burka is made possible * on the isolated Xinjiang ethnic Uyghurs!

*Conclusion*

This only echoes the conspiracy in Europe. For two decades, Muslems were singled-out for praying in the streets, or wearing hijab, or refusing to shake hands, or refusing to go to the swimming pools with there fellow schoolmates, or eating halal -refusing pork- at the canteen, or building minarets.

But, also, once marginalized, the delinquent teenagers would only be punished with a lenient sentence.

*Soft video -without violent gory ending-*
Ultraviolent aggression of an Asian Indochinese (L’agression ultraviolente d’une Asiatique résolue grâce à la vidéosurveillance)
http://www.leparisien.fr/val-de-mar...a-la-videosurveillance-18-07-2019-8119500.php​Today we know that all these "bad seeds", have in fact craftily been engineered en masse to form the backbone of the West's proxy armies as "ISIS" in their proxy-war waged on Libya, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yaman and Iran!

And as these were supposed to die in the Middle East while carrying out the grand strategy of their European puppet masters, therefore the absolute interdiction for them to return to live in the West!

*And the ban on burka is now unopposed in the West!* 








https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...c-in-here-please.621888/page-93#post-11661804​
Here the goal again clearly stated by the Empire's mouthpiece in implementing its frantic and reckless 24/7/365 ALL-CCTV 5G/6G Teraherz Big Brother Dystopian Totalitarian Orwellian Surveillance of all the world's masses, at the Ground level, complementing its already built multi-layered space, near space and airborne infrastructures:


I hope all CCTV cameras in Hong Kong are working well.

*All these Loser rioters caught by the CCTV camera 

will have ZERO future*.

They all will be tracked by *Big Data AI*
* *using their unique face and unique physical gait*.

All these Loser rioters have better start committing mass suicides and
burn themselves up to dust 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hong...-news-discussion.623438/page-36#post-11785808​

If this thesis is true, then the prospect for the less industrialized nations seems bleak indeed. 

One might expect that the next to be targeted in a row would be...Indochina!

See for yourself and decide!





https://archive.is/mB5g7/41692abe356340575436edd7b8f3c8d3d0354fef.jpg ; https://archive.is/mB5g7/96badde29962965e62d47c37f3621e7f787cddb8/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004125826/https://i.imgur.com/HDx8YBg.jpg 
▲ 2. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!





https://archive.fo/IOHz2/42d025df4518d2248e33a52e1b8938e931bef819.JPG ; https://archive.fo/IOHz2/b0147a6cf78f152d5b2ab82bda09f5543cc8af50/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...db/resize/2019/0221/155064981763_20190221.JPG 
▲ 3. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!





https://archive.fo/lHT33/c21ae0d6bd7c7ee1a9ea8676f3c26c4874e78c6c.jpg ; https://archive.fo/lHT33/e3274b1e4edb78af8238aaa6d6f60f5081efe84d/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...e.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_900/image.jpg 
▲ 4. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!






https://archive.fo/yPik5/6cb8013c21222d35bf64b357201eff53e083d6e5.jpeg ; https://archive.fo/yPik5/f77c9d7a91e254cacdf4e350acc1ed7766fbffb5/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...ia:7120309ccd44429090c0479535164c62/1000.jpeg 
▲ 5. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!


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## Dai Toruko

'Pepe the frog' has found a new role as a symbol of Hong Kong's pro-democracy protests. The frog was originally a cartoon character in the 'Boy's Club' comic series by artist Matt Furie, but being turned into an internet meme is what really skyrocketed his popularity. During Trump's 2016 presidential campaign, far right and white supremacist groups co-opted the frog for their own memes, leading to the ADL branding him a hate symbol and his creator declaring the frog dead. Now, Hong Kong protesters have given the frog a chance at redemption, as they use him to express their feelings and see him as a symbol of positivity.


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## Galactic Penguin SST

Viet said:


> The HKer can seek refugee status in Vietnam. There is a stat somewhere: the HKer have the world’s highest IQ. We can need them




How to read statistics? Obviously, the German (or Viking, whatever) impersonating an "Indochinese" poster, as "@Viet" does not understand anything.

It is only the mean value, a few HKer will score higher than that mean IQ value, while some others will be rated lower than that mean IQ value!

And indeed, those who are rioting, like the wine lees, only stay at the bottom of the society, both socially, economically and professionally as a result of their lower than average IQ. Meaning they might even have a lower IQ than the average Cochinchinese peasant, yes you read it, such a you wouldn't even want them in Vietnam!





https://archive.is/uYQLy/09d5c3adf1bd1013f41e2ad9647dcf8b19e450d1.gif ; https://archive.is/uYQLy/72f6830bff1fb4d11bb8a43a94a2a6a44941bf1a/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004224433/https://i.imgur.com/8hcYBtL.gif ; https://twitter.com/liamstone_19/status/1179111322295754753 
▲ 1. Lower IQ HKer with average rioter's IQ backfiring! 

https://twitter.com/liamstone_19/status/1179111322295754753

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## Hamartia Antidote




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## ARMalik

Well I am very, very disappointed with China and it leadership since they have allowed little insignificant mosquitoes to hold such a large country hostage. These are Western backed Agents, just like Ukraine. Why would a powerful country like China allow *this little Fuk called Joshua Wong *to create such terrorism? Think about it, This Fuk is standing next to the White Helmets Boss who is active in Syria.






Frankly, all *Chinese Leadership should be ashamed of themselves *for playing politics when they can crush these little rascals in *10 seconds.* There is no point to have these state of the art weapon systems when you are held hostage by little Rascals like these. President Xi really needs to look at himself and others around him for doing such a terrible job of protecting 1.5 Billion Chinese people.

=========================================
https://www.rt.com/news/469829-joshua-wong-local-election/
*Western-backed Hong Kong protest poster-boy Joshua Wong to run for local office*
Joshua Wong, the young figurehead of the anti-Beijing protests in Hong Kong, is planning to contest the upcoming local election. He is just back from touring Berlin and Washington, where he sought help to keep pressure on China.
The 22-year-old activist announced his plans on Saturday to run in the local election, set for November. His statement coincided with the anniversary of the 2014 mass protests in Hong Kong, China’s self-governing territory, in which Wong had also participated.

_“Five years ago, we claimed that we will be back and now we are back with even stronger determination,”_ he told reporters. _“The battle ahead is the battle for our home and our homeland.”_

Wong had earlier been released on bail; he’s charged with organizing an illegal rally outside a police station and is due to appear before a judge on November 8, two weeks before the vote. The anti-Beijing opposition group Demosisto, which Wong co-founded, had been barred from the elections but its ban was later overturned in court. The activist threatened the authorities with more protests if he is prevented from running.


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## Galactic Penguin SST

ARMalik said:


> Well I am very, very disappointed with China and it leadership since they have allowed little insignificant mosquitoes to hold such a large country hostage.
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hong...-news-discussion.623438/page-38#post-11812817




*Commentary*

Alas, this is only what the ruling deluded european fools wants their lower IQs to believe.

On the contrary, the Chinese leadership has no stakes in these doomed tiny islets, knowing that 7.44 million (2019) is of no significance when facing the mainland's 1.43 Billion Chinese people.

President Xi and the CCP have already accepted the fact that the Hong Kong SAR, part of the Greater Bay Area (GBA) will not survive the global meltdown of the polar ice caps.

The Chinese central government planners have therefore decided to focus their attention on developing the safer hinterland, with the highest altitude in the world of the Qing–Zang Plateau, averaging an elevation exceeding 4500 metres and with peaks exceeding 8000 meters, that will see all other minor nations being submerged, from afar.



*Scientists Discover Evidence for Past High-Level Sea Rise*

Monday, September 2, 2019

Scientists have discovered evidences for past high-level sea rise at current atmospheric carbon dioxide levels.

According to the SciTechDaily reports, scientists from the University of New Mexico, the University of South Florida, Universitat de les Illes Balears and Columbia University published their findings in today’s edition of the journal Nature.

Scientists believed that the analysis of deposits from Artà Cave on the island of Mallorca in the western Mediterranean Sea produced sea levels that serve as a target for future studies of ice sheet stability, ice sheet model calibrations and projections of future sea-level rise.

The project focused on cave deposits known as phreatic overgrowths on speleothems. The deposits form in coastal caves at the interface between brackish water and cave air each time the ancient caves were flooded by rising sea levels. In Artà Cave, which is located within 100 meters of the coast, the water table is – and was in the past – coincident with sea level, says Professor Joan J. Fornós of Universitat de les Illes Balears.

The scientists discovered, analyzed, and interpreted six of the geologic formations found at elevations of 22.5 to 32 meters above present sea level. Careful sampling and laboratory analyses of 70 samples resulted in ages ranging from 4.4 to 3.3 million years old BP (Before Present), indicating that the cave deposits formed during the Pliocene epoch. The ages were determined using uranium-lead radiometric dating in UNM’s Radiogenic Isotope Laboratory.

One key interval of particular interest during the Pliocene is the mid-Piacenzian Warm Period – some 3.264 to 3.025 million years ago – when temperatures were 2 to 3º Celsius higher than pre-industrial levels. “The interval also marks the last time the Earth’s atmospheric CO2 was as high as today, providing important clues about what the future holds in the face of current anthropogenic warming,” said USF Department of Geosciences Professor Bogdan Onac.

This study found that during this period, global mean sea level was as high as 16.2 meters (with an uncertainty range of 5.6 to 19.2 meters) above present. This means that even if atmospheric CO2 stabilizes around current levels, the global mean sea level would still likely rise at least that high, if not higher, the scientists concluded. In fact, it is likely to rise higher because of the increase in the volume of the oceans due to rising temperature.

The authors also measured sea level at 23.5 meters higher than present about four million years ago during the Pliocene Climatic Optimum, when global mean temperatures were up to 4°C higher than pre-industrial levels. “This is a possible scenario if active and aggressive reduction in greenhouse gases into the atmosphere is not undertaken,” added Columbia University Assistant Professor Jacky Austermann, a member of the research team.

http://web.archive.org/web/20190917024639/http://en.iscanews.ir/news/666854
http://archive.is/espt9​

Below a map with the new coast line of the Greater Bay Area (GBA), with 23 meters higher sea level, associated with the current atmospheric CO2 level and a temperature 4°C higher than pre-industrial levels:

Macao, Zhuhai, Foshan, Guangzhou, Dongguang, and large part of Hong Kong SAR will vanish.





https://archive.is/LibMb/e25a640f93b98e8c9599f2173ed68cbee73a387b.jpg ; https://archive.is/LibMb/5e6ae853bc9dbadcb9db4f4a31f5ffd3ed3cbde1/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191005154324/https://i.imgur.com/yQNCiTJ.jpg ; http://www.floodmap.net/ 
▲ 1. Greater Bay Area (GBA)'s coast line with 23.5 meters higher sea level.


Below a map with the new coast line of the Hong Kong SAR, with 23 meters higher sea level, associated with the current atmospheric CO2 level and a temperature 4°C higher than pre-industrial levels:

Large part will vanish, including Tsim Sha Tsui, Mong Kok, Yaumatei, Lai Chi Kok, Chek Lap Kok, Disneyland, Tuen Men, Tai Tong, Yuen Long, Kam Tin, Sheung Shui, Sha Tin, etc.





https://archive.fo/ot7ky/a58d290edef6b44bee3b86671b2d6a6da9bf15b9.jpg ; https://archive.fo/ot7ky/2ad5d14f675c90996f98e5b041d52518c462f99a/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191005155217/https://i.imgur.com/o5vWSrk.jpg ; http://www.floodmap.net/ 
▲ 2. Hong Kong SAR's coast line with 23.5 meters higher sea level.


But this scenario is only the mildest hypothesis. As the rise of 4 degrees is now challenged by temperatures rise of even 7.0 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial level!

Keeping in mind that the French past modelization only failed in its accuracy, with heatwaves occurring 30 years earlier than initially predicted!


*Earth to warm more quickly, new climate models show*

Tue Sep 17, 2019

Greenhouse gases thrust into the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels are warming Earth's surface more quickly than previously understood, according to new climate models set to replace those used in current UN projections, scientists said Tuesday.

By 2100, average temperatures could rise 6.5 to 7.0 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels if carbon emissions continue unabated, separate models from two leading research centers in France showed.

That is up to two degrees higher than the equivalent scenario in the Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change's (IPCC) 2014 benchmark 5th Assessment Report.

The new calculations also suggest the Paris Agreement goals of capping global warming at "well below" two degrees, and 1.5C if possible, will be harder to reach, the scientists said.

"With our two models, we see that the scenario known as SSP1 2.6 — which normally allows us to stay under 2C — doesn't quite get us there," Olivier Boucher, head of the Institute Pierre Simon Laplace Climate Modelling Center in Paris, told AFP.

With barely one degree Celsius of warming so far, the world is already coping with increasingly deadly heat waves, droughts, floods and tropical cyclones made more destructive by rising seas.

A new generation of 30-odd climate models known collectively as CMIP6 — including the two unveiled Tuesday — will underpin the IPCC's next major report in 2021.

"CMIP6 clearly includes the latest modeling improvements," even as important uncertainties remain, Joeri Rogelj, an associate professor at Imperial College London and an IPCC lead author, told AFP.

These include increased supercomputing power and sharper representations of weather systems, natural and man-made particles, and how clouds evolve in a warming world.

"We have better models now," said Boucher. "They have better resolution, and they represent current climate trends more accurately."

'Tipping points' 

A core finding of the new models is that increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere will warm Earth's surface more easily than earlier calculations had suggested.

If confirmed, this higher "equilibrium climate sensitivity," or ECS, means humanity's carbon budget — our total emissions allowance — is likely to shrink.

The French models are among the first to be released, but others developed independently have come to the same unsettling conclusion, Boucher confirmed.

"The most respected ones — from the United States, and Britain's Met Office — also show a higher ECS" than the previous generation of models, he said.

This is bad news for fight against global warming, which continues to face strong political headwinds and institutional inertia despite a rapid crescendo of public awareness and concern.

"A higher ECS means a greater likelihood of reaching higher levels of global warming, even with deeper emissions cuts," Boucher and two British scientists — Stephen Belcher from the UK Met Office and Rowan Sutton from the UK National Centre for Atmospheric Science — wrote in a blog earlier this year, tiptoeing around the implications of the new models.

"Higher warming would allow less time to adapt and mean a greater likelihood of passing climate 'tipping points' such as thawing of permafrost, which would further accelerate warming."

A third to 99 percent of top-layer permafrost could melt by 2100 if carbon pollution is not abated, releasing billions of tones of greenhouse gases into the air, according to a draft IPCC special report on oceans and Earth's frozen zones obtained by AFP.

"Unfortunately, our global failure to implement meaningful action on climate change over recent decades has put us in a situation where what we need to do to keep warming to safe levels is extremely simple," said Rogelj.

"Global greenhouse gas emissions need to decline today rather than tomorrow, and global CO2 emissions should be brought to net zero."

The 2014 basket of climate models show Earth warming on current trends an additional 3C by 2100, and at least 2C even if national carbon cutting pledges are all met.

The two French climate models, including one from France's National Centre for Meteorological Research (CNRM), were to be unveiled at a press conference in Paris.

http://web.archive.org/web/20191003.../606399/Global-warming-earth-greenhouse-gases​


These climatic refugees, who's ancestors fled south, would now have to resettle to the north.

The Hong Kongers will beg shamelessly China to let them enter and save their miserable lives!






http://web.archive.org/web/20190917...nd.at/img/cms/blog/reisen/expo/northkorea.jpg ; http://www.weltfreund.at/img/cms/blog/reisen/expo/northkorea.jpg ; http://web.archive.org/web/20190917.../21_top-10-pavillons-auf-der-expo-milano.html 
▲ 3. Sea level: paradise on Earth!


----------



## beijingwalker

*Hong Kong protests: Demonstrators shine laser lights at Chinese military barracks*


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## Hamartia Antidote

"the PLA barracks...they have barracks all over the city"


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## BRAVO_

PLA is doing good by restarting, because right now entire western world is trying to create panic among chines and take some sort of action, for how many days protesters will do this ??? it is a game of nerves

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## kankan326

If China is a democratic country, the government would have ordered police and soldiers to shoot these traitors already. 99% mainland Chinese want them to die immediately.

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## vi-va

kankan326 said:


> If China is a democratic country, the government would have ordered police and soldiers to shoot these traitors already. 99% mainland Chinese want them to die immediately.


*China is a kind of democracy, Democratic Collective Centralism which is true democracy.*

US is democracy only by name. US is *Capitalist Oligarchy* actually, dominated by billionaires.

*Money talks*
More than one-quarter of all disclosed political contributions in 2012 came from just 30,000 people - and the percentage may be higher because many donations are unreported. Some researchers have concluded that wealthy people and business interests have 15 times the political efficacy of the rest of the population.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...archy-dominated-billionaires-big-money-series

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## Ryan

Hats off to those who heal the scar of HK with their bare hands.
To me, they are the consciousness of HK, the true hero of HK.
*Elderly woman vents frustration at Hong Kong protesters*






*尖沙咀青年快閃清潔 . 盼快速修補香港傷痕*
clean up and heal HK

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## Brainsucker

Ryan said:


> Hats off to those who heal the scar of HK with their bare hands.
> To me, they are the consciousness of HK, the true hero of HK.
> *Elderly woman vents frustration at Hong Kong protesters*



Now, they're bullying a granny. Wow.


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## rott

kankan326 said:


> If China is a democratic country, the government would have ordered police and soldiers to shoot these traitors already. 99% mainland Chinese want them to die immediately.


The best part is, the so called democratic countries around the world will call it "Bringing Democracy to Hongkong".

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## waz

rott said:


> The best part is, the so called democratic countries around the world will call it "Bringing Democracy to Hongkong".



Hilariously they didn’t say a word when Spanish police beat the hell out of Catalan grandmothers for a referendum vote.
Do what must be done.

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## mike2000 is back

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Unfortunately...but they were throwing stuff (which I doubt was flowers)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hong Kong protester shot in chest during demonstrations on China's 70th anniversary*


Most of these youths are hyperactive (which is usually normal for people that age) , as such they seem to have taken advantage of the genuine demands of this protests as well. Anyway, security forces ought to arrest those involved in vandalism and stealing. Irrespective of which side they belong to.


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## Ryan

Deeds, neither the words nor the shallow slogans, matter most.




*Hong Kong Rioters' Deception 香港暴徒的騙術*

He is facing life threat after he reported what he saw on the scene.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=936960133351404




*Robert Ovadia*
Yesterday at 2:46 AM ·
I have never seen disinformation￼ weaponised with such venom as my time in Hong Kong.
We see in social media, right around the world￼, people’s refusal to acknowledge basic fact if it doesn’t confirm their entrenched political bias.￼￼ In Hong Kong right now, this is toxic and dangerous.
￼￼￼Well known Hong Kong actress, Celine Ma, protested the protesters. She had no less right to protest than they did, but ￼because of it a solitary woman surrounded by an angry mob (championing “freedom” and “democracy”) was sprayed in the face, punched, shoved to the ground and had a glass bottle smashed over her head. This is fact and unambiguous.
Organisations like Apple Daily, which has specific links to the “pro-democracy” protesters, deliberately edit videos out of context to alter their audience’s impression of what happened￼￼￼￼￼￼￼, to make it seem like she attacked protesters first. A brief description of this is “propaganda“. ￼Apple Daily starts￼￼ its sequence with Ms Ma defending herself, making her look like the aggressor and that became the narrative for so many.

This is Apple Daily’s edited version:

http://www.facebook.com/INTBUY/videos/489123338333484/?t=4

And this the unedited version:

https://www.facebook.com/140774269809434/posts/497227044164153?sfns=mo

￼She was outnumbered and brutalised by a mob that wants democracy, but only the sort of democracy it seems where everybody must agree with them or they cop it. I have seen other instances - more brutal - of people speaking out and getting assaulted:

https://youtu.be/RFwGqF3QlVc

https://twitter.com/jackyuen15/status/1182574950588108800…

I have seen police accused of beating and raping protesters before they go to court, of undercover police being the ones starting fires, with absolutely zero evidence to back that up. If there were evidence, we would report it without fear or favour. There is little doubt such￼ accusations ￼are peddled by propaganda machines like Apple Daily and, alarmingly, there are so many people who swallow it and it becomes their “truth”.

My role in this was little more than a journalist seeking to interview her and I put myself between her and the mob to do it. I had not anticipated her pleading with me to escort her to the police station, which I felt compelled to do, and I certainly did not anticipate what followed in the coming days.

￼For helping this woman, I was labelled “pro China“. ￼ That led to the standard doxxing we see today on social media￼￼, a torrent of abuse online and, far worse, death threats. My name and picture were circulated among protesters and intelligence sources informed us we were to be targeted by these “peaceful protesters”. That is not spontaneous violence – it is calculated, premeditated –￼ all because allegiances here are so fanatical, a mere act of kindness could only be viewed through the prism of politics￼, immediately judged and avenged.

It has long been said truth is the first casualty of war. That used to apply only to the generals, politicians￼ and strategists who could try to manipulate the public.￼ These days, everybody has a voice online. Everybody is in on the dirty secret.￼￼

I have dealt with many decent protesters in Hong Kong - people who were polite, who are understanding of what journalists do, who offered us water and one who helped wash tear gas out of my eyes. There are many kind people and I have no doubt, the origins of this mess are founded upon good sentiment.￼￼

But if these people are truly fighting for democratic rights, they must observe their own principles. I have received a flood of communication from people thanking us for our unbiased coverage, but only doing so in private messages, they say, because they don’t want to fall victim to the angry mob either. One has to wonder what sort of democracy they are trying to preserve.￼




__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Brainsucker

Hongkong really needs to active martial law and jam all the internet and communication access in their territory. Then order the PLAAF and PLAN to blockade the city until the situation solved. Yes, Foreign power will try to break through the blockade with their own Electronic Warfare device. So, China should lend their Electronic Warfare Element to Hongkong to jam any attempt to use foreign telecommunication devices. With all Chinese EW elements, I doubt that any foreign power can penetrate the blockade without uncover their true face.

Why Electronic Warfare is necessary? Because those rioters and criminals use internet and telecommunication as their weapon to put Hongkong Government into hostage situation. Google and Apple provide the rioters some kind of software that can track HK police position, they use social media and foreign media for their source of propaganda.

So to solve the problem, the Government should cut down their weapon first. And that is internet.

Yes, maybe the crack down and blockade will break their reputation, but at least it help the citizens from these criminals from their further violence.

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## Ryan

That is one way to handle the mess. However, I am not sure if the HKers reach to the point of standing up to the rioters and letting them know enough is enough. Until then, it may be worth of patience. 


Brainsucker said:


> Hongkong really needs to active martial law and jam all the internet and communication access in their territory. Then order the PLAAF and PLAN to blockade the city until the situation solved. Yes, Foreign power will try to break through the blockade with their own Electronic Warfare device. So, China should lend their Electronic Warfare Element to Hongkong to jam any attempt to use foreign telecommunication devices. With all Chinese EW elements, I doubt that any foreign power can penetrate the blockade without uncover their true face.
> 
> Why Electronic Warfare is necessary? Because those rioters and criminals use internet and telecommunication as their weapon to put Hongkong Government into hostage situation. Google and Apple provide the rioters some kind of software that can track HK police position, they use social media and foreign media for their source of propaganda.
> 
> So to solve the problem, the Government should cut down their weapon first. And that is internet.
> 
> Yes, maybe the crack down and blockade will break their reputation, but at least it help the citizens from these criminals from their further violence.



*Hong Kong Protests: the dark, silent (and hidden) side of Hong Kongers*





*Hong Kong Protests: Tourist Sneaks Behind RIOT POLICE lines*





*[RAW] Hong Kong: Protest mob knocks this guy out [FULL lead-up] - I GOT LIFE THREATS FOR POSTING*

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## 帅的一匹

every has to be held responsible for what he or she is doing. if I were the leader, those protesters would have been dead.

they are not protesters, they are terrorists funded by our ENEMIES.

they will have to pay sooner or later.


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## Brainsucker

Ryan said:


> That is one way to handle the mess. However, I am not sure if the HKers reach to the point of standing up to the rioters and letting them know enough is enough. Until then, it may be worth of patience.
> 
> 
> *Hong Kong Protests: the dark, silent (and hidden) side of Hong Kongers*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hong Kong Protests: Tourist Sneaks Behind RIOT POLICE lines*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *[RAW] Hong Kong: Protest mob knocks this guy out [FULL lead-up] - I GOT LIFE THREATS FOR POSTING*



Even in Indonesia we jam the internet and telecommunication when fighting a riot. As long as the internet still on, hoax, dis information, and fake news will become bigger and messier.

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## bbccdd1470

Brainsucker said:


> Google and Apple provide the rioters some kind of software that can track HK police position, they use social media and foreign media for their source of propaganda.


You are so right, Apple just dropped an app called "HKmap" that can track the police's location and their current activities after they received complains from HK and Beijing. Many HK people have also complained how facebook, youtube and twitter deleted their account and banned them from further uploading videos about rioter's violence, some still can upload but many can't.
Since day one, the movement was already hijacked by insidious agenda. As many years I have lived in HK, I never see a protest turn into violence that quickly, where the rioters attacked the LegCo building as the same day of their first protest. And by looking back, they were very organized with their hand gestures, resources and assignment for each role like first aiders, front liners and distributors.



wanglaokan said:


> they are not protesters, they are terrorists funded by our ENEMIES.


Some already say they are terrorists since they already attack innocent people and cause fear to general public in order to achieve their political goal "HK independence".



Ryan said:


> Deeds, neither the words nor the shallow slogans, matter most.


I totally agree what you said here. For more accurate information, their actual slogan is in fact straight forward and honest. The fighting for freedom and democracy is a PR slogan for foreigners to gain sympathy and a propaganda by the western mainstream media to fool their audience. The actual slogan is "Liberate Hong Kong and an Revolution of our time" this is what you hear all the time during riot. The goal is HK independence or semi-independence.

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## Nan Yang

Self-Realisation beats all propaganda.

*Criminal lawyer Edwin Choy opens up on resignation from Hong Kong Bar Association, saying his outlook on protest violence diverged too much from others*

Many protesters ‘have been stirred into abandoning reason and replacing it with barbarism’, says Edwin Choy, who represented Occupy leaders
Destructive acts serve ‘no meaningful purpose’, while Hong Kong is ‘engulfed in the flames of senseless nihilism’, he says.



Chris Lau
Published: 6:45pm, 14 Oct, 2019

A top criminal lawyer has said he resigned as the vice-chairman of the Hong Kong Bar Association over its failure to condemn protesters’ violent acts during the ongoing anti-government demonstrations.

Two days after it was revealed that Edwin Choy Wai-bond, 48, had
parted ways
with the association’s executive office, the Bar Council, the lawyer on Monday wrote to the _Post_ to offer his account.
Commenting on the recent protests
, he said while he appreciated many youths for holding fast to their political ideals, many others “have been stirred into abandoning reason and replacing it with barbarism”, with their peaceful demeanour morphing into destructive conduct “far beyond the set boundaries laid down by the law”.

“As it became increasingly apparent to me that a substantial majority of my colleagues on the Bar Council remained highly reticent to state, with unequivocal clarity, that both the rioters and those who proffer excuses on their behalf should be condemned, I was convinced that my outlook diverged too much from [that of] the council for me to remain among its ranks,” he said.

The veteran legal practitioner, who became a senior counsel last year, had earlier represented leaders of the 2014 Occupy protests. He also defended pro-independence activist Edward Leung Tin-kei, when he was charged over the riot
that gripped Mong Kok, a popular shopping district, in 2016.
A legal source told the _Post_ that while the association had issued three statements to denounce protesters in the past months, Choy wanted one more but did not get enough support.

Choy was also upset that the council did not consult him before issuing an internal memo in September which accused police of misinterpreting the law, that left barristers with no access to clients except in the presence of a solicitor.

His departure from the Bar Council highlighted the divisive views of the city’s more than 1,500 barristers over the increasingly violent anti-government protests.

What started out as a peaceful march by an estimated 1 million protesters, triggered by a now-withdrawn extradition bill
, has morphed into aggressive confrontations, with radical activists hurling petrol bombs at police officers.
In return, police officers have fired live rounds
, various projectiles and tear gas, while the government invoked an emergency law two weeks ago to ban people from wearing masks at public assemblies.

Choy said the protesters’ destructive acts – including damaging banks and metro stations, and assaulting citizens who held different political views – served “no meaningful purpose”, while Hong Kong was “engulfed in the flames of senseless nihilism”.

He said some youths had not only been insisting on their own rights while disregarding others’, many even portrayed themselves as martyrs saying that they were ready for substantial jail terms.

“My experience tells me that there is nothing worth romanticising about the criminal process,” he wrote.

He also accused some opinion leaders in the city of offering excuses for protesters, while shifting the blame onto the government and police. The city’s police have been under fire for allegedly using excessive force and covering their identities while attempting to quell the protests.

“Nevertheless, it is clear to me that someone else’s mistakes cannot justify one’s crimes,” he said, adding that the law did not recognise retaliation as a defence.

“I thus felt strongly that the Bar Association must express its strongest disapproval of both the perpetrators of the ongoing unrest and those who spin for these rioters,” he said.

The _Post_ has contacted the Bar Association for comments.


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## Mista

https://graphics.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/Interactives/2019/10/hkfamily/index.html?shell


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## Dai Toruko

Pro-democracy lawmakers in Hong Kong interrupted a major policy speech by the territory's leader, Carrie Lam. She was forced out of the legislature, as opponents heckled her and called on her to meet the demands of Hong Kong's months-long protest movement. DW spoke with Tanya Chan, one of those opposition lawmakers who were in the chamber.


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## casual

it's like the new "red guard"


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## obj 705A

*Taiwan urges Hong Kong to further detain and investigate murder suspect who prompted proposal of extradition bill that sparked months of unrest*

Chan Tong-kai, a Hong Kong student wanted in Taiwan for the murder of his pregnant girlfriend, is expected to be released next Wednesday after spending 18 months in jail for money laundering.

Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor had held up his case as the primary justification for the bill, arguing that fugitives such as Chan were able to avoid justice because of a lack of extradition agreements with jurisdictions such as Taiwan. Opposition to the bill triggered months of unrest that is showing no signs of dying down.

Taiwan’s Ministry of Justice urged the authorities to actively pursue Chan’s alleged murder case.

Criminal law expert Simon Young of the University of Hong Kong said it was not possible for the city’s police to detain Chan.


“Once Chan has served his sentence, the Hong Kong authorities can hold him only if they have an applicable power to arrest or detain him. If he is not wanted for any offences committed in Hong Kong and is not the subject of any extradition arrest warrant, then there is no grounds I can see to arrest him.”

https://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...rges-hong-kong-further-detain-and-investigate
______________________________

HK rioters are absolutely disgusting, how can they even sleep at night knowing they just freed someone who killed a pregnant woman? was that what they meant when they said they are fighting for freedom? these dogs sometimes say the solution is for HK to have an extradition bill with just Taiwan, they are too braindead for them to realize that HK doesn't have it's own foreign policy, meaning HK considers Taiwan to be a province of the PRC so they have to have an extradition bill with the PRC.

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## Nan Yang

90% of the protesters do not understand the extradition laws.






China rejected Hong Kong plan to appease protesters


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## bbccdd1470

Nan Yang said:


> 90% of the protesters do not understand the extradition laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China rejected Hong Kong plan to appease protesters


More accurate to say, that was never about the extradition treaty since after the withdrew of the treaty, almost all of those against the treaty still support those on going "peaceful protests". I said it form my real life observation, not from the internet PR.

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## obj 705A

*Murder suspect who prompted proposal of extradition bill that sparked Hong Kong’s ongoing unrest will turn himself in to Taiwan authorities*

A soon-to-be-released murder suspect, originally at the centre of Hong Kong’s political crisis sparked by the government’s now-withdrawn extradition bill, has decided to turn himself in to Taiwan authorities, the _Post_ has learned.

Reverend Canon Peter Koon Ho-ming, a top Anglican priest who has been visiting Chan Tong-kai weekly in jail, said the 20-year-old, wanted on the self-ruled island 
for the murder of his pregnant girlfriend
, hoped the move would calm the chaos in his home city.

“I have been visiting him for more than half a year now. At first he was worried about turning himself in, but after talking to lawyers from Taiwan and with his family, he made the decision last month,” said the provincial secretary general of the city’s Anglican Church.

“I told him that he’s still young. How many more years can he hide from this? Even if he’s jailed for more than 10 years, he can still have a new start, rather than living in guilt.”

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...uspect-who-prompted-proposal-extradition-bill


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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1185526009245896707

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## Hamartia Antidote

Continued Eastern Media coverage of Hong Kong protests


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## DavidsSling

Hong Kong streets descended into chaotic scenes again on Sunday (local time) as protesters set up roadblocks and torched businesses on a main tourist drag and police responded with tear gas and a water cannon following an unauthorised pro-democracy rally.

Protesters tossed firebombs and took their anger out on shops with mainland Chinese ties as they skirmished late into the evening with riot police, who unleashed numerous tear gas rounds on short notice, angering residents and passers-by.

Police had beefed up security measures ahead of the rally, for which they refused to give permission, the latest chapter in the unrest that has disrupted life in the financial hub since early June.






Hong Kong streets descended into chaotic scenes again on Sunday (local time) as protesters set up roadblocks and torched businesses on a main tourist drag and police responded with tear gas and a water cannon following an unauthorised pro-democracy rally. (Getty)





Police had beefed up security measures ahead of the rally, for which they refused to give permission, the latest chapter in the unrest that has disrupted life in the financial hub since early June. (AP)

As the procession set off, protest leaders carried a black banner that read, "Five main demands, not one less", as they pressed their calls for police accountability and political rights in the semi-autonomous Chinese territory.

Supporters sang the protest movement's anthem, waved colonial and US flags, and held up placards depicting the Chinese flag as a Nazi swastika.

Many protesters wore masks in defiance of a recently introduced ban on face coverings at public gatherings, and volunteers handed more out to the crowd.

Matthew Lee, a university student, said he was determined to keep protesting even after more than four months.

"I can see some people want to give up, but I don't want to do this because Hong Kong is my home, we want to protect this place, protect Hong Kong," he said.

"You can't give up because Hong Kong is your home."





As the procession set off, protest leaders carried a black banner that read, "Five main demands, not one less", as they pressed their calls for police accountability and political rights in the semi-autonomous Chinese territory. (Getty)

How the latest protest unfolded

Some frontline protesters barricaded streets at multiple locations in Kowloon, where the city's subway operator restricted passenger access.

They tore up stones from the sidewalk and scattered them on the road, commandeered plastic safety barriers and unscrewed metal railings to form makeshift roadblocks.

A water cannon truck and armoured car led a column of dozens of police vans up and down Nathan Road, a major artery lined with shops, to spray a stinging blue-dyed liquid as police moved to clear the road of protesters and barricades.

At one point, the water cannon sprayed a handful of people standing outside a mosque. Local broadcaster RTHK reported that the people hit were guarding the mosque and few protesters were nearby.

The Hong Kong police force said it was an "unintended impact" of its operation to disperse protesters and later sent a representative to meet the mosque's imam.

As night fell, protesters returned to the streets, setting trash on fire at intersections.
Residents jeered at riot police, cursing at them and telling them to leave. The officers, in turn, warned people that they were part of an illegal assembly and told them to leave, and unleashed tear gas to disperse the crowds.

Along the way, protesters trashed discount grocery shops and a restaurant chain because of what they say is the pro-Beijing ownership of the companies.

They also set fire to ATMs and branches of mainland Chinese banks, setting off sprinklers in at least two, as well as a shop selling products from Chinese smartphone maker Xiaomi.





Supporters sang the protest movement's anthem, waved colonial and US flags, and held up placards depicting the Chinese flag as a Nazi swastika. (Getty)

Why protesters continue to fight

The police used a bomb disposal robot to blow up a cardboard box with protruding wires that they suspected was a bomb.

Organisers said ahead of the march that they wanted to use their right to protest as guaranteed by Hong Kong's constitution despite the risk of arrest.

"We're using peaceful, rational, nonviolent ways to voice our demands," Figo Chan, vice convener of the Civil Human Rights Front, told reporters.

"We're not afraid of being arrested. What I'm most scared of is everyone giving up on our principles."

The group has organised some of the movement's biggest protest marches. One of its leaders, Jimmy Sham, was attacked on Wednesday by assailants wielding hammers.

On Saturday, Hong Kong police arrested a 22-year-old man on suspicion of stabbing a teenage activist who was distributing leaflets near a wall plastered with pro-democracy messages.

A witness told RTHK that the assailant shouted afterward that Hong Kong is "a part of China" and other pro-Beijing messages.

The protest movement sprang out of opposition to a government proposal for an extradition bill that would have sent suspects to mainland China to stand trial, and then ballooned into broader demands for full democracy and an inquiry into alleged police brutality.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/hong...defy-ban/1fb33159-1bae-4486-8136-01dcfe0cd99e


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## TheNoob

Nothing but retards...

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## Itachi

More power to them!


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## DoTell

Bitches can whine for 20 more years. After that they can let their kids take over. Meanwhile they're welcome crash their economy, starve themselves to death. Not a tiny bit of sh!t is given

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## Itachi

DoTell said:


> Bitches can whine for 20 more years. After that they can let their kids take over. Meanwhile they're welcome crash their economy, starve themselves to death. Not a tiny bit of sh!t is given



If you can't say a good thing, you're better staying silent.

Any and everyone has the right to protest within rule of law. You can't "ban" protesting that's based on legitimate concerns.

Advocating for the deaths of thousands (by starvation), if not hundreds of thousands, is what genocidal maniacs do....are you a genocidal maniac??

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## TheNoob

Itachi said:


> If you can't say a good thing, you're better staying silent.
> 
> Any and everyone has the right to protest within rule of law. You can't "ban" protesting that's based on legitimate concerns.
> 
> Advocating for the deaths of thousands (by starvation), if not hundreds of thousands, is what genocidal maniacs do....are you a genocidal maniac??



What he said is the truth though.
They're damaging nothing but themselves.

I never knew violently damaging and vandalizing public property, disrupting businesses and blocking roads were within the rule of law.

eh...
I don't know when violent protesting were more validated than properly protesting.

Plenty of ways to protest.
Stop using services, shut down businesses, stop using govt services, avoid taxes.
So many ways, but nope.
Let's all be as retarded as those French, or those molvis, etc.

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## Itachi

TheNoob said:


> What he said is the truth though.
> They're damaging nothing but themselves.
> 
> I never knew violenting damaging public property, disrupting businesses and blocking roads were within the rule of law.
> 
> eh...
> I don't know when violent protesting were more validated than properly protesting.
> 
> Plenty of ways to protest.
> Stop using services, shut down businesses, stop using govt services, avoid taxes.
> So many ways, but nope.
> Let's all be as retarded as those French, or those molvis, etc.



They're not comparable to the "molvis" but to the French yes.

All protests reach this stage when the police and the State starts using brutal tactics.


What about the Dharnas of IK?? Did they not work??

The people have all right to overthrow their govt. too if they like. The Americans did so (the American Revolutionary War) so did the French, who in this case also started peacefully but went full on violent (beheading the aristocracy violent)...


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## TheNoob

Itachi said:


> They're not comparable to the "molvis" but to the French yes.
> 
> All protests reach this stage when the police and the State starts using brutal tactics.
> 
> 
> What about the Dharnas of IK?? Did they not work??
> 
> The people have all right to overthrow their govt. too if they like. The Americans did so (the American Revolutionary War) so did the French, who in this case also started peacefully but went full on violent (beheading the aristocracy violent)...



oh they are very much comparable. 
pretty much most if not all the protest these days are comparable. Lol

Hated IK's Dharna for bringing violence.
I had pretty violent posts in regarding their solution too, sadly. 

Police and State usually have reaction depending on the severity of the impact. 
Most of them are pretty well rationalized orders. 
Even in France, actually.

As for the French Revolution... those monarchs had it coming, especially when no Church was there to defend their actions.  Although, that's a topic for another day. 
Interesting one too, I even say we should do something similar to that to Zardaris and Bhutto.

As for the American Revolutionary War, that was actually a good decision in light of the disparity created within the British Society and The colonies. 

Something similar is happening in Chile right now too.


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## DoTell

Itachi said:


> If you can't say a good thing, you're better staying silent.
> 
> Any and everyone has the right to protest within rule of law. You can't "ban" protesting that's based on legitimate concerns.
> 
> Advocating for the deaths of thousands (by starvation), if not hundreds of thousands, is what genocidal maniacs do....are you a genocidal maniac??



@Itachi, you may have the heart of an angel but I’m afraid your ability to comprehend written English is less that of a 5 year old. You see, I, the evil Chinese, merely ordered these law bidding, peace loving birds to carry on at their own expense. I don’t give a dam. It’s how I feel, it’s the truth, the best opinion they can get. Bye now.


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## Itachi

DoTell said:


> @Itachi, you may have the heart of an angel but I’m afraid your ability to comprehend written English is less that of a 5 year old. You see, I, the evil Chinese, merely ordered these law bidding, peace loving birds to carry on at all costs. I don’t give a dam. It’s how I feel, it’s the truth, the best opinion they can get. Bye now.



Answer my points, don't go off a tangent. Personal insults won't get you anywhere.



Itachi said:


> If you can't say a good thing, you're better staying silent.
> 
> Any and everyone has the right to protest within rule of law. You can't "ban" protesting that's based on legitimate concerns.
> 
> Advocating for the deaths of thousands (by starvation), if not hundreds of thousands, is what genocidal maniacs do....are you a genocidal maniac??



You didn't even touch upon what I wrote above lol^



TheNoob said:


> oh they are very much comparable.
> pretty much most if not all the protest these days are comparable. Lol
> 
> Hated IK's Dharna for bringing violence.
> I had pretty violent posts in regarding their solution too, sadly.
> 
> Police and State usually have reaction depending on the severity of the impact.
> Most of them are pretty well rationalized orders.
> Even in France, actually.
> 
> As for the French Revolution... those monarchs had it coming, especially when no Church was there to defend their actions.  Although, that's a topic for another day.
> Interesting one too, I even say we should do something similar to that to Zardaris and Bhutto.
> 
> As for the American Revolutionary War, that was actually a good decision in light of the disparity created within the British Society and The colonies.
> 
> Something similar is happening in Chile right now too.



The Chinese are slowly taking away the Freedoms of the HK'ers....the public has the right to push back.

You say you're ok with the American and the French revolutions but not with the HK protests??

But all revolutions start out like that. Neither of us are from HK so our opinions don't matter. 

What matters is that the regular HK'er will go outside to protest against China, whether I or you like it or not.

I just tend to agree with the regular HK'er since I despise the CCP (for many different reasons) as do normal HKer's.


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## obj 705A

LOL guys don't treat @Itachi seriously, he is well known anti China troll, treat him the same way you treat viva viet, he thinks he is smart when he sugar coats anti China events, so when you reply to his posts do it just for the laughs.

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## Itachi

obj 705A said:


> LOL guys don't treat @Itachi seriously, he is well known anti China troll, treat him the same way you treat viva viet, he thinks he is smart when he sugar coats anti China events, so when you reply to his posts do it just for the laughs.



Okay...thanks for letting us all know not to take you seriously. 

You must be the "Iraqi Chinese worshipper" if I'm a "known anti-China troll"?

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## Char

Itachi said:


> Answer my points, don't go off a tangent. Personal insults won't get you anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't even touch upon what I wrote above lol^
> 
> 
> 
> The Chinese are slowly taking away the Freedoms of the HK'ers....the public has the right to push back.
> 
> You say you're ok with the American and the French revolutions but not with the HK protests??
> 
> But all revolutions start out like that. Neither of us are from HK so our opinions don't matter.
> 
> What matters is that the regular HK'er will go outside to protest against China, whether I or you like it or not.
> 
> I just tend to agree with the regular HK'er since I despise the CCP (for many different reasons) as do normal HKer's.



You should know what freedom was in colony!

Your critisism to China make no sense except reminding Chinese that Muslims in China are potential risks.


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## Itachi

Char said:


> You should know what freedom was in colony!
> 
> Your critisism to China make no sense except reminding Chinese that Muslims in China are potential risks.



Freedom was earned when the British left, wherever the British ruled.

Your criticism of anyone speaking up against China is what drives most people against China.

You guys can't stand anyone not agreeing with you lot. If you're happy to make Muslims (in China and outside) your new enemies than that's your and your government's choice.

Muslims have been here on this planet long before the CCP and long before many Chinese dynasties and we will continue to be so.

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## Char

Itachi said:


> Freedom was earned when the British left, wherever the British ruled.
> 
> Your criticism of anyone speaking up against China is what drives most people against China.
> 
> You guys can't stand anyone not agreeing with you lot. If you're happy to make Muslims (in China and outside) your new enemies than that's your and your government's choice.
> 
> Muslims have been here on this planet long before the CCP and long before many Chinese dynasties and we will continue to be so.



You forgot your history and you don't know the HK history.

We will face all enemies whoever want to destabilize China, I m fully confident the world outside China will be more unstable.

Thanks for your consideration, take care of yourself.


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## DavidsSling

Free Tibet LOL at the Chinese pretending everything is ok in HK.

Remember the genocide committed in Tibet and continues to be carried out in Tibet


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## Menthol

"We're not afraid of being arrested."

Yet, they are wearing mask.


I hope these people will get what they want, but live a very poor life.

There's no one need to be blamed, no regret, instead should be proud.



DavidsSling said:


> Free Tibet LOL at the Chinese pretending everything is ok in HK.
> 
> Remember the genocide committed in Tibet and continues to be carried out in Tibet



Genocide is because of modernity.

The Tibet event is a mark that Buddhism entered into the third era of decline.

But what is happening in Tibet, is happening in other Buddhist countries as well... modernity.


The same with today Jewish religion, the original religion is already extinct, what it left is just a name.

From the chosen people by God, into the fallen.


It's because the era is already different, and the people is moving on.

According to today people perspective, modernity is not wrong.

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## Char

Menthol said:


> "We're not afraid of being arrested."
> 
> Yet, they are wearing mask.
> 
> 
> I hope these people will get what they want, but live a very poor life.
> 
> There's no one need to be blamed, no regret, instead should be proud.
> 
> 
> 
> Genocide is because of modernity.
> 
> The Tibet event is a mark that Buddhism entered into the third era of decline.
> 
> But what is happening in Tibet, is happening in other Buddhist countries as well... modernity.
> 
> 
> The same with today Jewish religion, the original religion is already extinct, what it left is just a name.
> 
> From the chosen people by God, into the fallen.
> 
> 
> It's because the era is already different, and the people is moving on.
> 
> According to today people perspective, modernity is not wrong.



ETIM wants a Caesaropapism slavery country in Xinjiang, rediculous!


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## ChineseTiger1986

HK police got support from Spain

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## Hamartia Antidote

https://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...-protests-mainland-chinese-student-faces-jail
*Hong Kong protests: mainland Chinese student faces jail after pleading guilty to possessing offensive weapon in public place*

The first mainland Chinese person charged in connection with the ongoing protests in Hong Kong pleaded guilty in court on Thursday to possessing an offensive weapon in a public place.

Student Chen Zimou, 24, admitted he carried an extendable baton in Sheung Wan on the night of July 28. At the time, a large number of protesters had occupied roads near Beijing’s liaison office in Hong Kong, after an authorised assembly in Central ended.

Chongqing native Chen, who is majoring in music at the University of Hong Kong, said under caution he carried the baton, which measured 78cm in length when fully extended, for self-defence as he feared being assaulted on the street despite not taking part in any protest, West Kowloon Court heard.

He also said he wore a yellow reflective vest to dress like a journalist to avoid being attacked.


Acting Chief Magistrate Peter Law Tak-chuen ordered Chen be remanded in custody while the court awaited background and detention centre reports before sentence was passed on November 7.

Chen will receive either a jail term or a detention centre order, which would place him on hard physical labour while in prison with a minimum detention period of one month.


*He was arrested after he approached a police cordon and said he wanted to walk past. An officer found the extendable baton,* which is unlawful to carry in Hong Kong, on him.

Defence lawyer Robert Pang Yiu-hung SC told the court Chen had bought the 120 yuan (US$17) baton via a mainland online shopping platform because he was ignorant about the law in Hong Kong.

He said Chen was assaulted in Zhuhai, Guangdong province, last year and had sustained “pretty serious” injuries.

Chen’s fear of being assaulted was amplified after he learned about an indiscriminate attack on commuters at Yuen Long MTR station by a group of white-clad men on July 21, Pang said. The defendant often passed through the station, he said.

“He was very foolish, or very ignorant, when he bought the baton for self-defence,” Pang said.

“After reading media reports [on the Yuen Long attack], he feared he might be subject to assault even though he had not taken part in any public gatherings.”

Pang also questioned the basis for the prosecution to charge his client with “possessing an offensive weapon in a public place” under the Public Order Ordinance, which stipulates a defendant aged between 17 and 24, once convicted, must be sentenced to either jail or a detention centre.

He said the charge “was not the most suitable” as the prosecution could have considered alternatives which allowed sentencing options other than one of imprisonment, such as “possession of an offensive weapon” under the Summary Offences Ordinance.

Senior public prosecutor Ivan Cheung Cheuk-kan admitted to the magistrate they had neither evidence nor legal basis to reject the notion suggested by the defence.

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## Indos

I thought HK protester has already win, didnt they ? 

HK law maker has already accepted their demand.

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## casual

Indos said:


> I thought HK protester has already win, didnt they ?
> 
> HK law maker has already accepted their demand.


HK protesters are already drunk on violence. I don't think they will stop


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## Hamartia Antidote

casual said:


> HK protesters are already drunk on violence. I don't think they will stop



Lord of the Flies


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## casual

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Lord of the Flies


fitting considering most of the hardcore protesters are 18 and under

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## Hamartia Antidote



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## Nan Yang

Did UK foreign minister just tell the protesters to stop the violence? Will the protesters obey their master's command ? Or will they now burn the UK flag ?

Fake news ?
Britain has called on anti-government protesters in Hong Kong to “end the violence”, while also asking police to “be proportionate” in their handling of demonstrators.

It also noted that the nature of the 
protests had changed and stressed that the violence of a “hard-core minority cannot be condoned”.

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## KungFuLee

Char said:


> You forgot your history and you don't know the HK history.
> 
> We will face all enemies whoever want to destabilize China, I m fully confident the world outside China will be more unstable.
> 
> Thanks for your consideration, take care of yourself.



And do you know the History of Hong Kong? To start, why Hong Kong was called Hong Kong in the first place...

It's fun to see all you people, who may not even lived 1 second in Hong Kong come up here and talk about the issue like you are some kind of expert.

These people are fighitng for their freedom, while I do deplore violence, however, if Police fire 5000 tear gas grenade and most of them ended up in people's home, have had smoke grenade and tear gas grenade launched into your home before? and then use unlimited amount of resource up to firing real bullets at you, would you still stay peaceful? 

You accept media reporting as it fit your own agenda, I have seen enough Police beating up old man and young children and ripping their clothes and mask off for no reason, I have seen Police operate OUTSIDE their specific guideline.

Before you commend on this issue, ask yourself this, how much do you actually know the situation. 

I basically laugh off most of these post...But well....


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## Tom99

> These people are fighitng for their freedom, while I do deplore violence, however, if Police fire 5000 tear gas grenade



This happens in countries that claims to have freedom and democracy too, like USA, France, etc. Uses of tear gas have been normalized as a norm in today's protests, nothing special about it anymore.



> most of them(tear gas grenade) ended up in people's home, have had smoke grenade and tear gas grenade launched into your home before?



Provide reliable sources for this please. Virtually all protests happened in street lineds with shops so how does most of these snoke grenades and tear gas grenade are luanched into homes?



> and then use unlimited amount of resource up to firing real bullets at you, would you still stay peaceful?



22 weeks of peaceful and violent protests and nobody got killed by polices. Real bullets and unlimited amount? please be real.




> You accept media reporting as it fit your own agenda, I have seen enough Police beating up old man and young children and ripping their clothes and mask off for no reason, I have seen Police operate OUTSIDE their specific guideline.



pretty much a norm in freedom and democracy countries.





> I basically laugh off most of these post...But well....



Can you stop laughing and provide some reliable sources for the above requests, please.

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## KungFuLee

Tom99 said:


> This happens in countries that claims to have freedom and democracy too, like USA, France, etc. Uses of tear gas have been normalized as a norm in today's protests, nothing special about it anymore.
> 
> Provide reliable sources for this please. Virtually all protests happened in street lineds with shops so how does most of these snoke grenades and tear gas grenade are luanched into homes?
> 
> 22 weeks of peaceful and violent protests and nobody got killed by polices. Real bullets and unlimited amount? please be real.
> 
> pretty much a norm in freedom and democracy countries.
> 
> Can you stop laughing and provide some reliable sources for the above requests, please.



Do show me one country in the world would use 5,000 Tear Gas Grenade to quell protest? They emptied the old stock, they emptied the new purchase from the US, until a point the US bar the sales and they start getting them in China.

Do show me one country in the world would fire CS Shell and Smoke Grenade to someone home? You want proof?





















Police shoot Tear Gas everywhere, since when did you see you shoot INSIDE a bus? INSIDE the MTR station? Tear Gas should NOT be used indoor. Now, do tell me which country uses Tear Gas inside metro station, inside a bus and inside someone else home?

DO you even know how many time the Police open fire on protestor? 8 Times, leads to 2 person wounded, you don't draw your weapon unless your life is at stake, let alone using it. Does these people seems like their life is in danger?












And this is my favorite, I never know point a pistol at someone could be this much fun, but I think this Officer is certainly having the time of his life.






You want more proof? I can open another post, but I got over the attachment limit so I cannot post anymore photo.


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## Tom99

KungFuLee said:


> Do show me one country in the world would use 5,000 Tear Gas Grenade to quell protest? They emptied the old stock, they emptied the new purchase from the US, until a point the US bar the sales and they start getting them in China.



France and Spain. 22 weeks of peaceful and violent protests is a long period of time. It is better to use tear gas than real bullets like they do in Chile and Iraq protests.



> Do show me one country in the world would fire CS Shell and Smoke Grenade to someone home? You want proof?



You said, "most of them(tear gas grenade) ended up in people's home." Show me a source for 2500+1 tear gas end up in people's home.



> Police shoot Tear Gas everywhere, since when did you see you shoot INSIDE a bus? INSIDE the MTR station? Tear Gas should NOT be used indoor. Now, do tell me which country uses Tear Gas inside metro station, inside a bus and inside someone else home?



Tear gas in used airport.

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/ar...rt-el-prat-protest-flight-delays-spain-latest

If American protesters did this in the USA they wouldn't get tear gased but shoot instead.








> ]DO you even know how many time the Police open fire on protestor? 8 Times, leads to 2 person wounded, you don't draw your weapon unless your life is at stake, let alone using it. Does these people seems like their life is in danger?



You kidding me? watch these videos.










If this happened in France or USA or France many of those protesters would be dead. You think you can get away assault police officers and then firebomb them and can get away with it? ridiculous.

Ferguson unrest: Police 'used tear gas on peaceful protesters'
www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-28848692/ferguson-unrest-police-used-tear-gas-on-peaceful-protesters
Tear Gas used and Guns out.





> You want more proof? I can open another post, but I got over the attachment limit so I cannot post anymore photo.



Give me a reliable source for your "Police fire 5000 tear gas grenade and most of them ended up in people's home"


Also, it is a freaking miracle that 22 weeks of protests. violent and peaceful, that nobody got killed.

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## Hamartia Antidote




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## vi-va

Fake blood on rioters, video accidentally taken by HK pro-west media Cable News Hong Kong (香港有线新闻).
https://v.qq.com/x/page/n3016queqc9.html

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## Hamartia Antidote



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## Brainsucker

KungFuLee said:


> Do show me one country in the world would use 5,000 Tear Gas Grenade to quell protest? They emptied the old stock, they emptied the new purchase from the US, until a point the US bar the sales and they start getting them in China.
> 
> Do show me one country in the world would fire CS Shell and Smoke Grenade to someone home? You want proof?
> 
> View attachment 587334
> 
> 
> View attachment 587335
> 
> 
> View attachment 587336
> 
> View attachment 587337
> 
> 
> Police shoot Tear Gas everywhere, since when did you see you shoot INSIDE a bus? INSIDE the MTR station? Tear Gas should NOT be used indoor. Now, do tell me which country uses Tear Gas inside metro station, inside a bus and inside someone else home?
> 
> DO you even know how many time the Police open fire on protestor? 8 Times, leads to 2 person wounded, you don't draw your weapon unless your life is at stake, let alone using it. Does these people seems like their life is in danger?
> View attachment 587338
> 
> View attachment 587339
> 
> View attachment 587340
> 
> And this is my favorite, I never know point a pistol at someone could be this much fun, but I think this Officer is certainly having the time of his life.
> 
> View attachment 587341
> 
> 
> You want more proof? I can open another post, but I got over the attachment limit so I cannot post anymore photo.



You should post a full raw video(without edited or cut), rather than photos. Because photos can give a lot of meaning. So far, your side (rioters) versions are edited or cut. While there are full raw video come from other forum members who side China. So, I believe them more than you, sorry.

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## Itachi

Indos said:


> I thought HK protester has already win, didnt they ?
> 
> HK law maker has already accepted their demand.



They have accepted one of their demands, not all I think. I can be wrong.


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## Nan Yang

*Court battle intensifies over medical records of woman who suffered serious eye injury during Hong Kong protests*

Police lawyer accuses woman of impeding an investigation by seeking to access the warrants police used to obtain her medical records
Court hears police obtained two warrants for Queen Elizabeth Hospital – one for her personal details and another for her admission records
Brian Wong 
Published: 7:52pm, 4 Nov, 2019





Johnny Mok SC at the High Court in November 2016. On Monday, Mok said the injured woman and her legal team had “raised smoke without any fire”. Photo: David Wong

A lawyer for the Hong Kong police has criticised a woman who sustained a serious eye injury during an anti-government protest, accusing her of obstructing an investigation by seeking to access the warrants the police used to obtain her medical records.

The High Court had on September 13 granted permission to the injured woman, identified as K, to 
continue a legal challenge
against Commissioner of Police Stephen Lo Wai-chung, who she said had infringed her rights to privacy and access to court documents by refusing to provide her with copies of the two police warrants.
At the substantive hearing on Monday, the woman’s lawyer, Robert Pang Yiu-hung SC, told Mr Justice Godfrey Lam Wan-ho that she had intended to appeal to the magistrate who authorised the police to acquire the records to set aside the warrants – but the police’s refusal to provide her copies of the warrants had made it impossible to 
make such a request
.
But Johnny Mok Shiu-luen SC, for the police commissioner, said the woman had done nothing but “raise smoke without any fire”. He said she had all the information required to file the intended applications to the court.





Protesters fight off tear gas in Tsim Sha Tsui on August 11, the night the woman sustained her serious eye injury and was admitted to hospital. Photo: AFP

“She cannot hide or excuse herself for not taking any actions by saying she did not know who the magistrate was,” he said, pointing out that she could have alternatively applied to the chief magistrate.

He said the woman was found injured at the centre of an unlawful assembly during which protesters attacked a police station, and that her possible involvement “could not be regarded lightly”.

The woman was hit in the right eye during clashes between protesters and police in 
Tsim Sha Tsui on August 11
. She said the injury was a result of a “suspected beanbag round shot by anti-riot police”. But officials disputed her claim, and suggested she might have been hit by a projectile fired by protesters.

The court heard that Queen Elizabeth Hospital, where the woman was admitted after her injury, had sent her 
medical records to the police
on September 4 after the police obtained two warrants on August 29 – one for the woman’s personal details and another for her admission records.
That was despite the hospital telling the woman’s lawyers on September 2 that it did not intend to hand over her reports, the court heard. Her lawyers informed the police of the woman’s 
intended legal action
the following day.

At the first hearing on September 12, lawyers for the police had undertaken to seal the woman’s medical records that had been obtained and not use them in court before the resolution of the present judicial review lawsuits.





Anti-extradition bill protesters clash with riot police in Tsim Sha Tsui on August 10. Photo: Felix Wong

On Monday, Pang said it was incumbent on law enforcement agencies to show a 
warrant to any persons affected
by it upon their request. “Without a copy of the warrant, we are effectively denied going to court,” he said.
Lam questioned the applicant’s proposition that a medical report was on “a different footing” than other types of documents. Citing an example of a street fight, he said it was not uncommon for police to seek medical reports of the victim, which could help police identify any weapons used.

Pang said a medical report contained intimate personal details and the court was required to take into account privacy issues when deciding whether to grant a 
warrant for such a document
. Otherwise, he said, people injured during a protest might be deterred from attending hospital out of fear that their information would be passed on to police, leading to “public health issues”.
But Mok, for the commissioner, said the police had no obligation to tell a suspect what investigations they were undertaking. They also had no obligation, he continued, to “second-guess” whether a warrant would be subject to legal challenges.

He alleged that the applicant’s inaction had barred her from seeking any effective measures after the disclosure of her medical reports.


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## Indos

Itachi said:


> They have accepted one of their demands, not all I think. I can be wrong.



I think they should stopped, at least their main demand has already been fulfilled. What they are doing is actually undermining democratic system by their long period of demonstration. And now their action has been copied by other democratic countries like in Lebanon, Latin America, and Iraq.

On the other hand recent student university demonstration in Indonesia who protests anti corruption law has been stopped. The people have shown their opposition, including through the media, so Indonesian think that they will accept recent ruling and will try to change it inside the system not trough street demonstration. I am also not satisfied, but we still have chance to change it through constitution court or another election, five years from now. 

Democracy needs patience. If we are not satisfied with current parliament and president, we still have chance to change it in another election. Rule of the game should be accepted, if not, anarchy can come, and if anarchy come while the current system cannot handle it, military will exploit the situation and create authoritarian regime just like happening recently in Thailand and Egypt.

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## vi-va

Single Mainland Chinese girl vs 20-30 HK rioters in Germany. Who is winner and reasonable, you can make your own judgement.

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## Itachi

Indos said:


> I think they should stopped, at least their main demand has already been fulfilled. What they are doing is actually undermining democratic system by their long period of demonstration. And now their action has been copied by other democratic countries like in Lebanon, Latin America, and Iraq.
> 
> On the other hand recent student university demonstration in Indonesia who protests anti corruption law has been stopped. The people have shown their opposition, including through the media, so Indonesian think that they will accept recent ruling and will try to change it inside the system not trough street demonstration. I am also not satisfied, but we still have chance to change it through constitution court or another election, five years from now.
> 
> Democracy needs patience. If we are not satisfied with current parliament and president, we still have chance to change it in another election. Rule of the game should be accepted, if not, anarchy can come, and if anarchy come while the current system cannot handle it, military will exploit the situation and create authoritarian regime just like happening recently in Thailand and Egypt.



In the end, you and me are outsiders.

We can't dictate what should or shouldn't happen in HK. Only the people in HK can do that.

We obviously have our opinions but the reason why the HK'ers haven't stopped is because of the long list of grievances that they hold. 

The police action hasn't helped the situation at all. Instead of maintaining law and order, they have acted very harshly so anything the protestors do is justified (my opinion).


----------



## vi-va

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Itachi

viva_zhao said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/



These tactics remind me of the American Revolution. Quite innovative tactics, whatever the results.


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## vi-va

Itachi said:


> These tactics remind me of the American Revolution. Quite innovative tactics, whatever the results.

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## Nan Yang

viva_zhao said:


> Single Mainland Chinese girl vs 20-30 HK rioters in Germany. Who is winner and reasonable, you can make your own judgement.


She can speak Mandarin, German and English. Even a few words of Cantonese. She wins hands down.

Despite being scream at by 30 people, she made her voice heard.

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## Tom99

Nan Yang said:


> She can speak Mandarin, German and English. Even a few words of Cantonese. She wins hands down.
> 
> Despite being scream at by 30 people, she made her voice heard.




One brave woman against a gang of thugs, they screamed and jeered when they can't articulate any reasonable responses. Lucky this is in Germany, if this was in Hong Kong that brave woman would get physically intimidated and attacked already.

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## vi-va

Nan Yang said:


> She can speak Mandarin, German and English. Even a few words of Cantonese. She wins hands down.
> 
> Despite being scream at by 30 people, she made her voice heard.


She is taller than those scum bags, and elegant. Those rioters are really disgusting.



Tom99 said:


> One brave woman against a gang of thugs, they screamed and jeered when they can't articulate any reasonable responses. Lucky this is in Germany, if this was in Hong Kong that brave woman would get physically intimidated and attacked already.


Those HK rioters are only "brave" with masks. It's illegal to demonstrate with masks. Those rioters dare not do anything without mask while video is recording.

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## Hamartia Antidote




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## vi-va

Hamartia Antidote said:


>






take a look at 22:05

The comments below the video is really hilarious.
@beijingwalker ,@Brainsucker @*Nan Yang @Tom99 @KungFuLee @Itachi @Indos @waz @Dubious @WebMaster @Char @Menthol @ChineseTiger1986 @casual @Dai Toruko @onebyone @DavidsSling @TheNoob @DoTell @obj 705A @kankan326 @Ryan @rott @mike2000 is back @帅的一匹 @bbccdd1470 @Mista @tower9 @JSCh @Galactic Penguin SST @ARMalik @BRAVO_ @Synchonicist

Do you guys think China government was reasonable in 1989 Tiananmen Square protests?

Oh, btw, don't forget the lies which played for thousands of times on western media
*
*Tank Man (now with more raw footage) You need to open on youtube.com*
*



CNN version*

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## Hamartia Antidote

viva_zhao said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



That isn't new...and CNN wasn't even there...they don't own the footage.






There's even more footage


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man
"Video footage shows two figures in blue pulling the man away and disappearing with him into a nearby crowd; the tanks continued on their way.[10] Eyewitnesses are unsure who pulled him aside. Charlie Cole, who was there for _Newsweek_, said it was the Chinese government PSB (the police),[11] while Jan Wong, who was there for _The Globe and Mail_, thought that the men who pulled him away were concerned bystanders.


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## Nan Yang

DW Tim Sebastian interview student leader.
Joey Siu. Too embarrassing to watch .





Joey Siu insults people's intelligence.

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## DavidsSling

A 21-year-old protester was shot in the chest with a live round by a police officer in Hong Kong early Monday morning, as traffic stalled and clashes broke out across the city.

A traffic officer shot the protester and fired two more live rounds in Sai Wan Ho, on eastern Hong Kong Island, according to a police source.

The police source did not provide any more details about the shooting or why the officer fired his gun.

In a video clip of the incident shared online, the officer can be seen grappling with a protester. 

A second protester, dressed in black and wearing a face mask, approaches the scuffle, and the officer raises his gun.

The second protester appears to try and wave or slap the gun away, and the officer shoots him at close range in the chest, to screams from the surrounding crowd of protesters and passersby.





The protester approaches an officer struggling to detain another person. (Supplied)

Several more protesters then grapple with the officer, and two more live rounds are fired off-camera.

The injured protester was taken to a hospital and is "under assessment" for a gunshot wound, a source with the Hong Kong Hospital Authority said.

Police officers have since cordoned off the area where the protester was shot.

Protesters caused traffic disruptions at several locations around the city throughout Monday morning. Police said demonstrators set barricades and blocked roads in Sha Tin, Tseung Kwan O, Tuen Mun, and Hung Hom districts.





In the video, the officer appears to shoot the protester. (Supplied)

Several subway lines were experiencing minor to severe delays, with some some routes partially suspended "due to an escalation of the situation in station," according to the MTR subway operator.

In a statement, police said they were continuing to clear the barricades and were dispersing the protesters.

Hong Kong protesters had called for a general strike on Monday, following a chaotic weekend fueled by anger over the death of a 22-year-old student.

Chow Tsz-lok, a computer sciences student at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology (HKUST), died on Friday morning, days after falling and suffering a severe head injury in a parking garage close to the scene of protests. 





International criticism has been directed at Hong Kong's handling of the protests. (Supplied)

There is no indication that Chow was involved in the nearby protest.

*His death has prompted an outpouring of anger from anti-government protesters, who claim that police actions on the night of the accident resulted in paramedics being temporarily unable to access Chow.*

Police have strenuously denied responsibility for his death and maintained that at no point did officers obstruct ambulance or fire services from assisting Chow. A police statement released on November 5 described the allegations as "certainly false."

© AAP 2019

https://www.9news.com.au/world/hong...y-police/e2757f3a-30e7-43e3-acef-8638c829cf91


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## GHALIB

if you try to interfere in armed police business , this can happen some times .

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## JSCh

WARNING!! Graphic video!!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193780660088893440

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## vi-va

JSCh said:


> WARNING!! Graphic video!!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193780660088893440


Investigation, death penalty if confirmed. Rioters in HK are totally out of control of the organizer's hands. It's a train wreck.

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## casual

dude played dead for a while for the cameras and then took off running


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## atan651

A 'well-deserved' shot by the HK police! My salute!


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## ARMalik

You guys do know this is staged yea? So was the video where the policeman shoots a so-called protester.


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## hirobo2

Best way to scare off those HK protesters: Get some undercover officers to stage fake police protester shootings. Do it every day for 1 wk. Include lots of fake blood at the scene. Spread the news. That should scare off those mfookers...


----------



## Brainsucker

ARMalik said:


> You guys do know this is staged yea? So was the video where the policeman shoots a so-called protester.



I don't think so.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...ng-kong-father-two-burned-alive-after-chasing

SCMP has confirmed it. So it's real. Because SCMP is an online News based on Hongkong, and they're not pro government agency. If it is staged, SCMP will reported that it fake.

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194104082623008770

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193889810223489024

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194139451561132032

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## Hamartia Antidote




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## vi-va

Hamartia Antidote said:


>


What will US police do when rioters try to grab his gun?
What will UK police do when rioters try to grab his gun?
What will the police of the rest of the world do when rioters try to grab his gun?

Don't forget, just hours ago, a man was burnt alive by rioters, the police definitely doesn't want to be burnt as well, or shot by the rioters.


It seems Youtube keep deleting those videos which against those rioters. Here is another one

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## Hamartia Antidote

viva_zhao said:


> What will US police do when rioters try to grab his gun?
> What will UK police do when rioters try to grab his gun?
> What will the police of the rest of the world do when rioters try to grab his gun?



Well one thing I do know is Chinese members here will start 10 threads on it and talk about it for months.


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## vi-va

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Well one thing I do know is Chinese members here will start 10 threads on it and talk about it for months.


while I don't like one sided narrative. I live in US, I watched CNN, Fox, NYTimes, and Reddit, I knew how biased they are.

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## JSCh

JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194104082623008770


*Japanese man injured in protests in Hong Kong | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News*
18 hours ago

Japan's Foreign Minister Toshimitsu Motegi says the government has confirmed that a Japanese man was injured in pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.

Motegi told reporters on Tuesday that Japanese government officials were able to contact the man in his 50s, and that he had already left a hospital after receiving treatment.

Motegi added that the government will provide necessary support from the standpoint of protecting Japanese nationals overseas.

Hong Kong media reported on Monday that a Japanese tourist was hurt in an assault by protesters in a busy district on Kowloon Peninsula.

Japan's consulate general in Hong Kong is calling on Japanese visitors to avoid violent scenes and not take pictures of protest activities.


----------



## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194490222030938112

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## DavidsSling

Hong Kong has woken to a third consecutive day of travel chaos and debris littering the streets, following fiery clashes across the city overnight and a prolonged and violent standoff at a university campus.

On Tuesday, hundreds of black-clad protesters, many of them students, attempted to block riot police from entering the prestigious and largely isolated Chinese University of Hong Kong (CUHK) near Tai Po.

The protesters also armed themselves with bows and flaming arrows.






Students with their bows and arrows take their position outside the Chinese University of Hong Kong, in Hong Kong, Wednesday, Nov. 13, 2019. (AP/AAP)

Under a barrage of constant tear gas, protesters hurled bricks and petrol bombs at police.

Smoke could be seen across parts of the New Territories, as protesters built massive bonfires from barricades and an abandoned car. The fierce confrontation continued well into the early hours, as police kept threatening a clearance of the campus.

As of Wednesday mid-morning, several thousand students were on campus, many armed with petrol bombs, bows, and other impromptu weapons, as more supplies were brought to campus by car and on foot.





Pro-democracy protesters set fire to an MTR train car during a demonstration at Chinese University of Hong Kong on November 13, 2019 in Hong Kong, China. (Getty)

Also on Wednesday morning, police attempted to clear barricades in Kowloon Tong, and local residents and government workers cleared up debris and barricades in Mong Kok, where clashes between police and protesters -- which saw numerous rounds of tear gas fired in the heavily built up area -- lasted until around 3 am.

The eruption of violence at CUHK follows some of the worst unrest seen in the semi-autonomous Chinese city since anti-government protests began nearly five months ago, with police describing the situation as on the "brink of a total breakdown."

Unrest is expected to continue throughout the day, with CUHK as the main focus.

Attention in the city has been focused on the campus, and dramatic pictures coming out of it overnight largely replaced those from earlier this week on front pages and social media, including the shooting of a protester by a police officer and the setting on fire of a man following a dispute with protesters Monday.





epa07992167 Protesters vandalize the Festival Walk shopping mall in Kowloon Tong, Hong Kong, China, 13 November 2019. (EPA/AAP)

Hong Kong stocks also tumbled on Wednesday as the city entered a third consecutive day of violent unrest.

The Hang Seng Index was down 2 per cent in early afternoon trading. So far this week, the index has lost more than 4 per cent.

The top three losers on the Hang Seng were local property owners and developers. New World Development dropped the most — 5.3 per cent.

Elsewhere in the region, Nissan shares recouped most of their early losses and were last down 0.4 per cent in Tokyo. Earlier in the day, the Japanese automaker slid as much as 4.3 per cent after it reported poor earnings.

The stock has tumbled 19 per cent so far this year.

Meanwhile, Japan's benchmark index Nikkei 225 dropped 0.9 per cent on Wednesday.

Nissan said after Tuesday's market close that its operating profit fell 70 per cent to 30 billion yen ($401 million) for the three months that ended in September, well below the estimated 47.5 billion yen from a Refinitiv poll of analysts.





Hong Kong is in its sixth month of mass protests that were originally triggered by a now withdrawn extradition bill, which have since turned into a wider pro-democracy movement. (EPA/AAP)

The automaker cut its sales forecast, expecting to sell 5.2 million cars for the fiscal year that ends in

March 2020 — 5.4 per cent less than what it initially anticipated. It also slashed the forecast of its full-year operating profit by 35 per cent.

South Korea's Kospi Index lost 0.9 per cent. China's Shanghai Composite Index dropped 0.4 per cent.

US stock futures also retreated. The Dow, S&P 500 and Nasdaq all moved more than 0.3 per cent lower.

US President Donald Trump said Tuesday in New York that a phase one trade deal with China "could happen soon" but said he will only "accept a deal if it's good for the United States."

https://www.9news.com.au/world/hong...standoff/c9fafd9d-c3c1-4c7f-a0ed-cce2bbda4efd

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## Omar Al-Deek

*Battleground Hong Kong: Rioters armed with catapults & javelins destroy university campuses & metro stations, clashing with police*

https://www.rt.com/news/473262-hongkong-riots-universities-police-violence/

I hope this movement spreads and the whole Communist government is overthrown.... I don't actually care about or believe in democracy.... but free the Uyghurs!

#ChinaServesTheNewWorldOrderJustLiketheUSDoes


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## bbccdd1470

I didn't get any notice for this thread and miss many things here.

Newest video to show how peaceful they are.





After reading the posts, there were some wrong accusations, first there was no "fired tear gas inside the bus", secondly there were no "most of the tear gas end in people's house". Lastly the fact of shooting incidents but many members here already know the truth.


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## rott

Omar Al-Deek said:


> but free the Uyghurs!


Is this what you're mad about? You're retarded!!!!

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## Beast

Omar Al-Deek said:


> *Battleground Hong Kong: Rioters armed with catapults & javelins destroy university campuses & metro stations, clashing with police*
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/473262-hongkong-riots-universities-police-violence/
> 
> I hope this movement spreads and the whole Communist government is overthrown.... I don't actually care about or believe in democracy.... but free the Uyghurs!
> 
> #ChinaServesTheNewWorldOrderJustLiketheUSDoes


Free Palestine from Jews and Arabs from US oppression... I know some will be selective and bragging in the name of justice of Muslim which is nothing but smokescreen to cover their US agenda since they are only particular care about Uighur only.

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## rott

Beast said:


> Free Palestine from Jews and Arabs from US oppression... I know some will be selective and bragging in the name of justice of Muslim which is nothing but smokescreen to cover their US agenda since they are only particular care about Uighur only.


Ignore the thread, bro. He's biased.

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## bbccdd1470

This is the video I posted in other thread:


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## JSCh

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252FSino%252Fcomments%252Fdvol71%252F

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## Götterdämmerung

He is a Hasbara troll.

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## salarsikander

Omar Al-Deek said:


> *Battleground Hong Kong: Rioters armed with catapults & javelins destroy university campuses & metro stations, clashing with police*
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/473262-hongkong-riots-universities-police-violence/
> 
> I hope this movement spreads and the whole Communist government is overthrown.... I don't actually care about or believe in democracy.... but free the Uyghurs!
> 
> #ChinaServesTheNewWorldOrderJustLiketheUSDoes


How about shwoing a bit of solaidraity with Palestianas as well 
Oh do you know that the tax money that you pay to US goes into providing the defence budget of US military which in turns bombs the Muslims

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## JSCh

JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194490222030938112


No wonder they fought back, notice a man lying on the ground?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194579675894255617

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## bbccdd1470

JSCh said:


> No wonder they fought back, notice a man lying on the ground?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194579675894255617


The rioters are getting very ridiculousness. Sooner or later they will kill a person, however, those BT supporters will probably still support and cheer for them due to "police fire too many tear gas".

WOW, now they beat pregnant woman.


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## kankan326

Omar Al-Deek said:


> I hope this movement spreads and the whole Communist government is overthrown


Bad news for you. 99% Mainland Chinese hate these HK traitors. After seeing how the traitors acted and how shameless western countries were, we support CCP even more. You can see this from the NBA event. The NBA ban was initiated by ordinary Chinese people, not by Chinese government.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Cue “Lord of the Flies” ending song..”Kyrie Eleison”


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## bbccdd1470

JSCh said:


> No wonder they fought back, notice a man lying on the ground?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194579675894255617


I think that 70 years old man is just dead (腦幹死亡). The first man that the Rioters killed. RIP.

https://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20191113/bkn-20191113182756084-1113_00822_001.html

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## beijingwalker



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## bbccdd1470




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## Piotr

bbccdd1470 said:


> I think that 70 years old man is just dead (腦幹死亡). The first man that the Rioters killed. RIP.
> 
> https://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20191113/bkn-20191113182756084-1113_00822_001.html



RIP.



beijingwalker said:


>



Thank you Russian RT for showing this. Don't expect nazi Fox News or nazi CNN or other propaganda bullhorns to show this.

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## beijingwalker

That's what the Chinese government wants, waited patiently until those protesters turned rioters show their true color, the west was ecstatic when it first started but now each day that is being dragged on adds weight of new embarrassment for the west, the whole world is watching how western sponsored "freedom and democracy"is killing the basic human rights in Hong kong each passing day, soon the population of the whole city will rise up against those rioters who robbed away their normal lives in Hong kong.

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## TNT

Things are getting out of control. People of hong kong seems to be ready to go to the end. Lets see how china handles this. This situation can easily spread to mainlansld too.


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## PakFactor

Question is it really that bad as how media is showing? Some local PDF members can share.


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## masterchief_mirza

Surely it is now laughable to label them as "pro democracy protestors", even by laughable western media standards? They already got the legislation in question rescinded. They're rioters. Simple. 

It's like when inner city riots occurred in Britain a decade ago - they also wanted better lives for themselves but nobody ever called them "pro-democracy protestors". They weren't "protestors" of any sort in fact - just rioters.

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## bbccdd1470

PakFactor said:


> Question is it really that bad as how media is showing? Some local PDF members can share.


According to the HK police press conference, "several hundred" petrol bombs were used by the rioters in HK Chinese University and described that university as an "arsenal". Most of mainland Chinese student already escaped back to China with help of pro China HK people and HK police.

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## PakFactor

bbccdd1470 said:


> According to the HK police press conference, "several hundred" petrol bombs were used by the rioters in HK Chinese University and described that university as an "arsenal". Most of mainland Chinese student already escaped back to China with help of pro China HK people and HK police.



Seems like a split is being created between HK and Mainlanders similar to China and Taiwan to weaken Chinese hold.

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## JSCh

bbccdd1470 said:


> I think that 70 years old man is just dead (腦幹死亡). The first man that the Rioters killed. RIP.
> 
> https://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20191113/bkn-20191113182756084-1113_00822_001.html


Report on what happened,

Elderly man clings to life after being hit in head by brick thrown by Hong Kong protesters during clash with residents in Sheung Shui | South China Morning Post

...

A 70-year-old man was fighting for his life on Wednesday after being struck in the head by a brick during a clash between anti-government protesters and residents in Sheung Shui.

The man was among more than 20 local people who were clearing bricks left by protesters on Lung Wan Street outside the Sheung Shui MTR station around noon. He becomes the second victim to suffer life-threatening injuries in an attack by protesters in the city since Monday.

A fight began when more than 20 black-clad protesters turned up and argued heatedly with the residents, according to police.

“An initial investigation showed that during the dispute, the victim was hit in the head with a brick that was hurled while using his mobile phone to take a photograph of the gang,” a police source said.

...​

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## bbccdd1470

JSCh said:


> Report on what happened,
> 
> Elderly man clings to life after being hit in head by brick thrown by Hong Kong protesters during clash with residents in Sheung Shui | South China Morning Post
> 
> ...
> 
> A 70-year-old man was fighting for his life on Wednesday after being struck in the head by a brick during a clash between anti-government protesters and residents in Sheung Shui.
> 
> The man was among more than 20 local people who were clearing bricks left by protesters on Lung Wan Street outside the Sheung Shui MTR station around noon. He becomes the second victim to suffer life-threatening injuries in an attack by protesters in the city since Monday.
> 
> A fight began when more than 20 black-clad protesters turned up and argued heatedly with the residents, according to police.
> 
> “An initial investigation showed that during the dispute, the victim was hit in the head with a brick that was hurled while using his mobile phone to take a photograph of the gang,” a police source said.
> 
> ...​


This is pretty much the truth. He is not certified dead yet, but it just a matter of time. Just hope for the best.


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## beijingwalker

PakFactor said:


> Seems like a split is being created between HK and Mainlanders similar to China and Taiwan to weaken Chinese hold.


A split is being created between HK rioters and HK general public.

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## Dungeness

T|/|T said:


> Things are getting out of control. People of hong kong seems to be ready to go to the end. Lets see how china handles this. *This situation can easily spread to mainlansld too.*



You really have no idea what you are talking about.


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## vi-va

we knew a few month ago, 郑伯克段于鄢


beijingwalker said:


> That's what the Chinese government wants, waited patiently until those protesters turned rioters show their true color, the west was ecstatic when it first started but now each day that is being dragged on adds weight of new embarrassment for the west, the whole world is watching how western sponsored "freedom and democracy"is killing the basic human rights in Hong kong each passing day, soon the population of the whole city will rise up against those rioters who robbed away their normal lives in Hong kong.





T|/|T said:


> Things are getting out of control. People of hong kong seems to be ready to go to the end. Lets see how china handles this. This situation can easily spread to mainlansld too.


You have no clue what you are talking about, basically you knew nothing about China politics.

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## TNT

viva_zhao said:


> we knew a few month ago, 郑伯克段于鄢
> 
> 
> You have no clue what you are talking about, basically you knew nothing about China politics.





Dungeness said:


> You really have no idea what you are talking about.



So when am pro china u all agree and when a pinch of reality, u guys suddenly say u dnt know anything. Typical response of dictatorial mouthpieces and propaganda zombies. even though am pro china, reality should be accepted and that is the ppl of hong kong dont want to live under china. Also we remember tianmen square massacre, so my point of it spreading to mainland is valid. You can ignore it all u want but a few more months and ull see unrest in mainlamd too.



viva_zhao said:


> That's what the Chinese government wants, waited patiently until those protesters turned rioters show their true color, the west was ecstatic when it first started but now each day that is being dragged on adds weight of new embarrassment for the west, the whole world is watching how western sponsored "freedom and democracy"is killing the basic human rights in Hong kong each passing day QUOTE]
> 
> That is the most delusional thing i have heard. embarrassment about what exactly??? Ur ppl are protesting against ur govt for 5 months and not giving up, yet the west is getting embarrassed???? You claim the west motivayed them, protesting for months after such harsh crackdown, that must be one dman strong motivation, wonder what it is, freedom??
> U know u cant hide anything these days, how hong kong police tortures students and how cruelly they deal with pregnant women. This all has consequences, i just wonder why dictators dont understand basic humanity.
> Though im appreciative of the fact that Beijing have kept it mild by their own standards, they need to do alot to deal with it.

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## Nan Yang

Better version of the 11.11 Sai Wan Ho shooting.


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## Dungeness

T|/|T said:


> So when am pro china u all agree and when a pinch of reality, u guys suddenly say u dnt know anything. Typical response of dictatorial mouthpieces and propaganda zombies. even though am pro china, reality should be accepted and that is the ppl of hong kong dont want to live under china. Also we remember tianmen square massacre, so my point of it spreading to mainland is valid. *You can ignore it all u want but a few more months and ull see unrest in mainlamd too.*



Being "pro China" doesn't give you any additional credibility on China's politics. You are not only ignorant, but you are also incredibly self-righteous. Now we know there are some of those from so called "iron brother" country would buy into Western propaganda against China in a heartbeat.


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## TNT

Dungeness said:


> Being "pro China" doesn't give you any additional credibility on China's politics. You are not only ignorant, but you are also incredibly self-righteous. Now we know there are some of those from so called "iron brother" country would buy into Western propaganda against China in a heartbeat.



Propaganda? So there are no protests? Lolz as an iron brother am saying china should do something about it before it spills to other parts. Such protests tend to spread. I also am sure the west has its hands in motivating those protests but thats not the only reason.

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## beijingwalker

*Feeling unsafe, students from mainland China flee Hong Kong*








T|/|T said:


> So when am pro china u all agree and when a pinch of reality, u guys suddenly say u dnt know anything. Typical response of dictatorial mouthpieces and propaganda zombies. even though am pro china, reality should be accepted and that is the ppl of hong kong dont want to live under china. Also we remember tianmen square massacre, so my point of it spreading to mainland is valid. You can ignore it all u want but a few more months and ull see unrest in mainlamd too.



You really don't know what you are talking about.


*Hong Kong still battling but China has won the war*
By Ethan Epstein - The Washington Times - Sunday, November 3, 2019
ANALYSIS/OPINION:

The so-called battle for Hong Kong is still raging. Over the weekend, the capitalist entrepot witnessed its 22nd straight week of protests against Beijing’s heavy hand.

While the demonstrations are both smaller and more violent than when they first erupted five months ago to protest a law (now withdrawn) that would have allowed extraditions from Hong Kong to Mainland China — this weekend’s flare-up saw numerous stores smashed and even a stabbing in a shopping mall — their longevity has been extraordinary.

In 1989, Tiananmen Square had been occupied for barely a month when the tanks rolled in. Other mass movements across the world have fizzled in a matter of weeks as protesters were suppressed, placated or simply grew bored.


Hong Kong’s defiant spirit — its will to battle — is remarkable. But the war is over. And China won.

Five months ago, the Hong Kong protests looked to many like a genuine challenge to Beijing, one that could shake the foundations of Communist rule. The extraordinary mass rallies that characterized the beginning of the movement, with roughly 1 million people taking to the streets in a city of only 7 million, were by far the most profound challenge to the Chinese Communist Party since 1989.


China could not risk contagion, and many agreed it would ultimately send in the army to put down the protests, lest they spread to cities in the mainland.

In a classic episode of “The Simpsons,” Mr. Burns is booed mercilessly at a film festival, only to be reassured by his assistant Smithers that the crowd was really screaming “boo-urns,” not “boo.”

No, this has nothing to do with President Trump at Saturday’s UFC fights. Rather, as protests broke out in Hong Kong, panicky, unintentionally comical pieces appeared in Communist-run media organs like the China Daily claiming to credulous domestic audiences that the Hong Kong protesters were actually coming out in favor of the Beijing regime.

Such laughable propaganda suggested a regime that was very, very nervous.

Beijing was abandoned early on.)

A perusal through my WeChat account tells the tale. WeChat, owned by Chinese conglomerate Tencent, is both a chat app and a social network *— Chinese users post photographs, memes and status updates alongside their text message conversations. And among my many Mainland contacts on WeChat, sentiment is universally hostile to Hong Kong. My feed is filled with condemnations of the “vandals” and “rioters” in Hong Kong.*

Note that many of these WeChat contacts fit the profile of those who we might expect to be on the side of the protesters. Many were educated abroad, have advanced degrees, and work in professional fields. Yet on the Hong Kong question, they are as nationalistic as their Little Red Book-clutching ancestors.

Others with deep networks in China report similar among their friends and acquaintances. Meanwhile, many Chinese living abroad have staged (actually) pro-Beijing demonstrations in dozens of cities outside China.

*Hong Kong, in other words, is isolated.*

Beijing may not have pacified the city itself, but it has eliminated the far more dangerous possibility of protests spreading. The 1989 student movement, by contrast, may largely be remembered for the atrocities that occurred in and around Tiananmen Square in Beijing, but there were pro-democracy protests in dozens of cities across the country.

Today, rather than send in the PLA and rerun a “tank man”-style atrocity, Beijing appears willing to let the demonstrations continue. Beijing even celebrated the nation’s 70th anniversary in grand style Oct. 1 in Beijing while continuing to let Hong Kong smolder. But this is in fact evidence of Hong Kong’s weakness as opposed to its strength.

Hong Kong simply doesn’t matter to China like it used to. In 1997, when Hong Kong was handed over from the United Kingdom to the People’s Republic, its economy represented some 20% of total Chinese gross domestic product. Hong Kong was also a crucial gateway for foreign investment into China.

Today, Hong Kong’s GDP represents less than 3% of China’s total GDP. Foreign investment has poured into the mainland, overflying Hong Kong entirely. Shanghai’s stock market, which didn’t even exist before the 1990s, now boasts a larger market capitalization than Hong Kong’s. It was reported last week that Hong Kong is, in fact, in recession — but there’s no sign that the rest of the country will follow.

The courageous Hong Kong protest movement will continue to irritate and embarrass Beijing. But fundamentally, it won’t threaten it.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/3/hong-kong-still-battling-but-china-has-won-the-war/


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## JSCh

bbccdd1470 said:


> This is pretty much the truth. He is not certified dead yet, but it just a matter of time. Just hope for the best.


He is now dead. Wonders will there be flowers and candle vigil for him?

*Senior worker dies in hospital after hit in head by brick thrown by Hong Kong rioter*
Xinhua 09:18 UTC+8, 2019-11-15






CCTV​
A senior sanitation worker in Hong Kong died in hospital late Thursday after being hit in his head by one of the bricks hurled by rioters.

This is the first death of an innocent civilian since the now-withdrawn ordinance amendments concerning fugitives' transfers sparked unrest in Hong Kong that escalated into severe violence.

The 70-year-old worker with the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department died in Prince of Wales Hospital after suffering a critical injury, the department confirmed.

He was hit in the head by one of the bricks thrown from masked rioters near North District Town Hall in Sheung Shui during his lunch break on Wednesday.

The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region government expressed outrage over the malicious acts of the rioters, saying the police will follow up the case thoroughly to bring offenders to justice.

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## rott

T|/|T said:


> So when am pro china u all agree and when a pinch of reality, u guys suddenly say u dnt know anything. Typical response of dictatorial mouthpieces and propaganda zombies. even though am pro china, reality should be accepted and that is the ppl of hong kong dont want to live under china. Also we remember tianmen square massacre, so my point of it spreading to mainland is valid. You can ignore it all u want but a few more months and ull see unrest in mainlamd too.


@Dungeness @viva_zhao
@T|/|T was just saying it would spill into mainland in a positive way. Don't misunderstand him.


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## vi-va

rott said:


> @Dungeness @viva_zhao
> @T|/|T was just saying it would spill into mainland in a positive way. Don't misunderstand him.


unrest tends to spread, true. China will be facing some pressure, true. Will similar chaos happen in Mainland China, not likely. What if it happens? Will be dealt with differently from Hong Kong.

I think Hong Kong chaos more likely will spread to the rest of the world. We can wait and see.

Pakistan will still be our Iron Brother, it won't change no matter what we say.
@T|/|T @Dungeness

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## Dungeness

viva_zhao said:


> unrest tends to spread, true. China will be facing some pressure, true. Will similar chaos happen in Mainland China, not likely. What if it happens? Will be dealt with differently from Hong Kong.
> 
> I think Hong Kong chaos more likely will spread to the rest of the world. We can wait and see.
> 
> Pakistan will still be our Iron Brother, it won't change no matter what we say.
> @T|/|T @Dungeness




Some of them would ranther believe West than their "iron brother", then smear China with the exact same sound bites. It's upsetting, especially when they think they are in position to predict China's political future.

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## JSCh

Friday, November 15, 2019, 16:16
*Death of elderly man in Sheung Shui investigated as murder*
By chinadailyhk.com



Hong Kong residents lay flowers near the North District Town Hall in Sheung Shui to pay tribute to an elderly man who died Thursday from head injuries after being hit by a brick hurled by black-clad protesters, Nov 15, 2019. (PHOTO / CHINA DAILY)

HONG KONG - Police have classified as murder the death of an elderly man who was hit in the head by a brick hurled by black-clad protesters in Sheung Shui on Wednesday.

*READ MORE: **Elderly man dies after being hit in head by a brick*

In a press briefing on Friday, police said they had primarily confirmed what happened according to descriptions of witnesses and video footage.

A group of black-clad rioters set up roadblocks near North District Town Hall in Sheung Shui on Wednesday. They clashed with residents who tried to clear the road, throwing iron rods, bricks and other hard objects at the latter, said Senior Superintendent Chan Tin-chu of the New Territories North Regional Crime Headquarters.

The victim, 70, was hit in the head by a brick when filming what was happening with his phone. He was knocked down to the ground and fell unconscious. The death was announced late Thursday at hospital.

Chan said it is believed the attack on the man, an outsourced worker of the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department, was malicious, adding that the Regional Crime Unit of the New Territories North was investigating the case.

He didn’t participate in the argument or the attempt to clear the road blocks, Chan said.



Hong Kong residents pay tribute to an elderly man who died Thursday from head injuries after being hit by a brick hurled by protesters near the North District Town Hall in Sheung Shui, Nov 15, 2019. (PHOTO / CHINA DAILY)

The man was a local Hong Kong resident and did not belong to any political group, Chan added.

*No suspects have been identified yet and police called on witnesses to come forward.*

Chan said some security cameras at the scene had been damaged by protesters, causing difficulties to police's investigation.

Post-mortem examinations will be conducted to ascertain the cause of the elderly man's death, Chan added.

*ALSO READ: **Continued violence condemned by Hong Kong people*

Police reiterated *zero tolerance to violence* and said that they would spare no effort to bring culprits to justice.

*In a statement issued on Friday, a principal official with the Liaison Office of the Central People's Government in the HKSAR conveyed deep condolences to the elderly man*

Such anti-human atrocity of indiscriminate killing is inhumane and intolerable, the official said, adding that the liaison office conveyed deep condolences over the death of the worker, offered sympathy to his family and expressed grave indignation and strong condemnation against such violence.

The liaison office firmly supports the HKSAR government and Hong Kong police in punishing the perpetrators according to law to demonstrate the rule of law and justice, the official said.

A group of residents on Friday paid tribute to the man in Sheung Shui, leaving flowers near the North District Town Hall where the incident happened.

_With agencies' inputs_

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## rott

Dungeness said:


> Some of them would ranther believe West than their "iron brother", then smear China with the exact same sound bites. It's upsetting, especially when they think they are in position to predict China's political future.


That's because they have only one side of the story. We cannot blame them since they can't read or write Chinese.


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## Dungeness

rott said:


> That's because they have only one side of the story. We cannot blame them since they can't read or write Chinese.




I wish the language were the only barrier.

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## rott

Dungeness said:


> I wish the language were the only barrier.


I agree. There are other factors too like media propaganda etc. But then knowing ones' language could help understand the other side of the story better.

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## Dungeness

rott said:


> I agree. There are other factors too like media propaganda etc. But then knowing ones' language could help understand the other side of the story better.



It takes an *open mind* to know the other side of story, which happens to be hard to come by in many parts of world. You know what I mean.

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## rott

Dungeness said:


> It takes an *open mind* to know the other side of story, which happens to be hard to come by in many parts of world. You know what I mean.


Haha... I get what you mean. Cheers!

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## Tom99

Here is a video of PLA officers volunteering and working together with Hong Kong Citizens clearing out the mess/rock/bricks/metal objects the protesters placed/threw on the road.

v1.





v2.

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## vi-va

Tom99 said:


> Here is a video of PLA officers volunteering and working together with Hong Kong Citizens clearing out the mess/rock/bricks/metal objects the protesters placed/threw on the road.
> 
> v1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v2.


Salute to PLA.

PLA (People's Liberation Army) won civil war, took over Shanghai in May 25th, 1949. They slept on the street, did not interrupt any civilians.

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## Khafee

@WebMaster There is a #Khafee leak on these protests, but your minions start going nuts......


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## bbccdd1470

Before I go to bed, let's post some good news.









For english users, many rioters are trapped inside HK polytechnic university by the police.

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## Nilgiri

@bbccdd1470 keep us updated here. I suppose most eyes are on this thread.

BTW your avatar pic doesnt work.


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## JSCh

JSCh said:


> WARNING!! Graphic video!!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193780660088893440






*Exclusive on HK: Wife of man set on fire explains her family's pain*
Nov 17, 2019
CGTN

On November 11, a 57-year-old construction worker was set alight following a heated argument with protesters. He had his first skin operation on November 15, yet is still in critical condition. CGTN reporter Zhu Dan conducted an exclusive interview with his wife on the pain he and his whole family have suffered since the attack.


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## Tom99

Here is Tim Sebastian interview with Joey Siu, a leader for Hong Kong protesters, in the program ConflictZone for DW news.







It is painful to watch but I don't think these protesters know what democracy and rule of law is all about. An indicative of the failure of Hong Kong education.

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## bbccdd1470

Tom99 said:


> Here is Tim Sebastian interview with Joey Siu, a leader for Hong Kong protesters, in the program ConflictZone for DW news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is painful to watch but I don't think these protesters know what democracy and rule of law is all about. An indicative of the failure of Hong Kong education.







__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3051559631538325




Can you understand Cantonese? This is the same person Joey Siu who called the people who were cleaning the mess are "rioters" but in the interview their people are "protesters", no doubt the interview was really a shame for an university student.

Short summary for latest situation: Most of the experienced rioters are trapped inside the Poly U since yesterday (incompetent leaders of the rioters chose to occupy Poly Universality so they are no where to flee once the police closed all the main streets). Green rioters at first tried to save them by damaging properties all over HK but were failed due to inexperience and "not brave" enough (Ran asap when the police arrived). Other rioters chose to fight the riot police who guard the main street in order to open an escape way for the trapped rioters but also was failed and some of them got arrested. One thing worth mention is Police have left an entrance for the trapped rioters to leave and surrender since yesterday morning, some trapped rioters tried to flee today but was failed. The members of pan-democratic party and religious figures (Christianity) tried to convince the police to let the rioters "go peacefully" (no surprise) but was rejected by the police. The standoff is still on and the "saving private ryan" should keep repeating today. Also with the President Xi's speech on anti-riot and the new Police Commissioner, the HK police is now getting serious and hardened.

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## Tom99

bbccdd1470 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3051559631538325
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Short summary for latest situation: Most of the experienced rioters are trapped inside the Poly U since yesterday (incompetent leaders of the rioters chose to occupy Poly Universality so they are no where to flee once the police closed all the main streets).



I would replace "experienced" with hardcore or violent.

But it is a smart move for the police to contain them within the university so they don't go outside to light people on fire, kill people with bricks, burn shops with their firebombs and intimidate and assault citizens with different opinions.

you can watch a twitch livestream here:





some protesters have already surrendered.

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## bbccdd1470

Tom99 said:


> I would replace "experienced" with hardcore or violent.


Absolutely.



Tom99 said:


> But it is a smart move for the police to contain them within the university so they don't go outside to light people on fire, kill people with bricks, burn shops with their firebombs and intimidate and assault citizens with different opinions.


Under the new police commissioner, the police's motto "服務為本 精益求精" had been changed to "忠誠勇毅 心繫社會". One thing for sure, this riot indirectly forces the only armed force of hk to pledge their loyalty to the central gov't.





Only setback was looked like some big shot ran away.




*示威者游繩逃走*
https://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20191118/bkn-20191118082409344-1118_00822_001.html
Until this point, about 600 surrendered and 200 are underage student.


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## Tom99

bbccdd1470 said:


> Under the new police commissioner, the police's motto "服務為本 精益求精" had been changed to "忠誠勇毅 心繫社會". One thing for sure, this riot indirectly forces the only armed force of hk to pledge their loyalty to the central gov't.



Honor, Duty and Loyalty to Hong Kong. China doesn't need their Loyalty to the central government. The police force just need to respect and upheld the Basic Laws of HK and keep HK peaceful.

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## bbccdd1470

Can anyone comment this, he has the same name but does he look like the same person? Some suspect he is with insidious agenda.

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## Rasengan

@bbccdd1470 HK should ban foreign extremists from entering the country. The Christian fundamentalists should mind his own business. Stupid crackpot wants to go on some crusade.

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## Brainsucker

bbccdd1470 said:


> Can anyone comment this, he has the same name but does he look like the same person? Some suspect he is with insidious agenda.



They want armed the rioters with weapon. It means they want to escalate the situation into a civil war.

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## bbccdd1470

Brainsucker said:


> They want armed the rioters with weapon. It means they want to escalate the situation into a civil war.





Rasengan said:


> @bbccdd1470 HK should ban foreign extremists from entering the country. The Christian fundamentalists should mind his own business. Stupid crackpot wants to go on some crusade.


Fortunately, some already forward this to the police. Look like US go full power now with "Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act" and sending their armed dealer to cause troubles. Good luck to us.

Looking back, that pastor (armed dealer as if he is the same person) arrived around the days the Poly University was barricaded and he wanted to talk to those rioters inside the University. This is highly possible some want to escalate the situation. Luckily, the HK police acted quickly and contained those rioters. Latest news, 1000 surrendered and about 300 are underage.

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## JSCh

JSCh said:


> Friday, November 15, 2019, 16:16
> *Death of elderly man in Sheung Shui investigated as murder*
> By chinadailyhk.com
> 
> 
> 
> Hong Kong residents lay flowers near the North District Town Hall in Sheung Shui to pay tribute to an elderly man who died Thursday from head injuries after being hit by a brick hurled by black-clad protesters, Nov 15, 2019. (PHOTO / CHINA DAILY)
> 
> HONG KONG - Police have classified as murder the death of an elderly man who was hit in the head by a brick hurled by black-clad protesters in Sheung Shui on Wednesday.
> 
> *READ MORE: **Elderly man dies after being hit in head by a brick*
> 
> In a press briefing on Friday, police said they had primarily confirmed what happened according to descriptions of witnesses and video footage.
> 
> A group of black-clad rioters set up roadblocks near North District Town Hall in Sheung Shui on Wednesday. They clashed with residents who tried to clear the road, throwing iron rods, bricks and other hard objects at the latter, said Senior Superintendent Chan Tin-chu of the New Territories North Regional Crime Headquarters.
> 
> The victim, 70, was hit in the head by a brick when filming what was happening with his phone. He was knocked down to the ground and fell unconscious. The death was announced late Thursday at hospital.
> 
> Chan said it is believed the attack on the man, an outsourced worker of the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department, was malicious, adding that the Regional Crime Unit of the New Territories North was investigating the case.
> 
> He didn’t participate in the argument or the attempt to clear the road blocks, Chan said.
> 
> 
> 
> Hong Kong residents pay tribute to an elderly man who died Thursday from head injuries after being hit by a brick hurled by protesters near the North District Town Hall in Sheung Shui, Nov 15, 2019. (PHOTO / CHINA DAILY)
> 
> The man was a local Hong Kong resident and did not belong to any political group, Chan added.
> 
> *No suspects have been identified yet and police called on witnesses to come forward.*
> 
> Chan said some security cameras at the scene had been damaged by protesters, causing difficulties to police's investigation.
> 
> Post-mortem examinations will be conducted to ascertain the cause of the elderly man's death, Chan added.
> 
> *ALSO READ: **Continued violence condemned by Hong Kong people*
> 
> Police reiterated *zero tolerance to violence* and said that they would spare no effort to bring culprits to justice.
> 
> *In a statement issued on Friday, a principal official with the Liaison Office of the Central People's Government in the HKSAR conveyed deep condolences to the elderly man*
> 
> Such anti-human atrocity of indiscriminate killing is inhumane and intolerable, the official said, adding that the liaison office conveyed deep condolences over the death of the worker, offered sympathy to his family and expressed grave indignation and strong condemnation against such violence.
> 
> The liaison office firmly supports the HKSAR government and Hong Kong police in punishing the perpetrators according to law to demonstrate the rule of law and justice, the official said.
> 
> A group of residents on Friday paid tribute to the man in Sheung Shui, leaving flowers near the North District Town Hall where the incident happened.
> 
> _With agencies' inputs_


From this,








​to this,








​Photo from 
香港无辜身亡清洁工罗伯悼念现场竟遭恶意破坏 | 观察者网
Hong Kong innocent cleaner Luo Bo memorial site deliberately vandalized | Guancha.cn​

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## KungFuLee

Brainsucker said:


> You should post a full raw video(without edited or cut), rather than photos. Because photos can give a lot of meaning. So far, your side (rioters) versions are edited or cut. While there are full raw video come from other forum members who side China. So, I believe them more than you, sorry.



Are you suggesting that every home in Hong Kong have to have 24h video monitor to record the moment CS flew into people home? I would say if you actually did produce such video, that video is highly likely be fake as it would most likely being staged.

It's NOT HARD at all to find new report on instance when Police Fire CS gas indoor and inside people home. They don't just fire a couple CS round, they did in thousand per day (9000 in the past Saturday alone, along with 5000 rounds of munition of all sort)

News like this is everywhere in Cantonese Speaking news

http://hd.stheadline.com/news/realtime/hk/1640461/即時-港聞-修例風波-尖沙嘴催淚彈射入屋-低層民居被焚

It's not hard to find one, but it is quite easy to ignore one.



Indos said:


> I think they should stopped, at least their main demand has already been fulfilled. What they are doing is actually undermining democratic system by their long period of demonstration. And now their action has been copied by other democratic countries like in Lebanon, Latin America, and Iraq.
> 
> On the other hand recent student university demonstration in Indonesia who protests anti corruption law has been stopped. The people have shown their opposition, including through the media, so Indonesian think that they will accept recent ruling and will try to change it inside the system not trough street demonstration. I am also not satisfied, but we still have chance to change it through constitution court or another election, five years from now.
> 
> Democracy needs patience. If we are not satisfied with current parliament and president, we still have chance to change it in another election. Rule of the game should be accepted, if not, anarchy can come, and if anarchy come while the current system cannot handle it, military will exploit the situation and create authoritarian regime just like happening recently in Thailand and Egypt.





Itachi said:


> They have accepted one of their demands, not all I think. I can be wrong.



There were 5 demands in total, only 1 were met, and it is also a "Sort of"

The major hurdle for the protestor now is that the government are not willing to form an independent inquiry and investigate the Police Handling of the situation, which most people in Hong Kong (Pro-or Anti-Beijing) think it is heavy handed. The major thing is the Police disregard their own rules of engagement and use deadly force at will (There has been around 8 or 9 shooting) and a lot of Police guideline are broken in dealing with the protestor.
To a point there were accusation that Police Officer kills protestor and throw them over building or into the ocean and pretend that is a suicide (It has been reported 3000+ case of suicide in Hong Kong since the beginning of protest back in May, which is abnormal...)

While many other demands are non-achievable (Like universal suffrage) but this one is doable and the government can do it themselves without answer to the north, but Lam don't want to do it for whatever reason. And also another thing, she won't resign, unlike Tung did back in 2003.

While I am not a fan of the protestor violence tactics, however, if you stand in their shoes, you would want the government to form an independent inquiry for the Police action, and they think if they aren't resort to violence, the government will not listen to them. Much like how the Government did not listen to the peaceful demand of retracting the bill early on in the protest when they are largely peaceful. Some would say the Government leads to its own demise to cave in when the protest turn ugly and not earlier. Some would say the government has done what they can and they can't do anything else but go heavy hand, I reserve my judgement on the issue.

I just went back to Hong Kong the past week and come back yesterday.



Rasengan said:


> @bbccdd1470 HK should ban foreign extremists from entering the country. The Christian fundamentalists should mind his own business. Stupid crackpot wants to go on some crusade.



That is what get Hong Kong into trouble in the first place...….



bbccdd1470 said:


> Can anyone comment this, he has the same name but does he look like the same person? Some suspect he is with insidious agenda.



What agenda would that be? Arm Hong Kong people to fight the Police and the PLA? That would be stupid as they would lose and I don't think it's that easy to smuggle Weapon from US or anywhere in the world to Hong Kong, don't you think?

Also, I want to ask you, are you supporting or opposing an independent Police Inquiry into Police Brutality?



bbccdd1470 said:


> I didn't get any notice for this thread and miss many things here.
> 
> Newest video to show how peaceful they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After reading the posts, there were some wrong accusations, first there was no "fired tear gas inside the bus", secondly there were no "most of the tear gas end in people's house". Lastly the fact of shooting incidents but many members here already know the truth.



They do, otherwise where would Tear Gas goes? Both by directly shoot them into people home, or by secondary contact. They did shoot tear gas grenade directly into people's home (And that cannot be by mistake because you need to aim differently to do that)

As for secondary contact, It is a gas, which is going to perpetrate into people home, I can launch a teargas into the street I live 3 story above, and I will smell the gas around 15 minutes after it was launched. Now, if you launch hundreds of these in the street, it will not just saturate the street, but also all the residential area on top

And you cannot denied they did use Tear Gas in enclose area, which is highly prohibited according to International Law.

About the "Firing incident" if we follow Police Guideline, I am not sure how you gauge an incident, but for Police to use deadly force in Hong Kong, according to Standard Police Operating Procedure, they have to

1.) Under the threat of deadly force, either to themselves or to public
2.) Have warn the threat of using deadly force.
3.) Have clear the potential collateral damage (ie, there cannot be any by-stander around)
4.) Have no other non-lethal mean available to them.

Now, if you look at the video, unless you call chair, umbrella and wooden board are deadly threat. Those still need to clear several hurdle before that officer can use his service revolver.

Good news for the HKP, they change the "internal guideline" as to how and what they can use force on September 30, and they don't let the public knows. Quoting "this would hamper Police Operation". Umm, the regulation is set forth by the legislative power, which is balanced between the Judiciary and Executive Branch. Could they be just change like that, once again, by the Security Bureau?

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/10/...ethal-force-day-officer-shot-student-reports/

I mean, we are talking about changing the rules of engagement for the use of deadly force, not an internal memo on how to issue parking ticket, people life are at stake here, the Police can just change it and not inform the public? Since when do they have the power to do this?

In fact, of all the incidents the Police opened fire on Protestor, none of which are justified from the above guideline (Which you can look up in Police Charter in HKP website PGO-29-01) the only instance I can agree deadly force should be use is when one of the officer were attacked by a knife in the neck and now when the protestor use high power bow and arrow.

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## bbccdd1470

KungFuLee said:


> Are you suggesting that every home in Hong Kong have to have 24h video monitor to record the moment CS flew into people home? I would say if you actually did produce such video, that video is highly likely be fake as it would most likely being staged.
> 
> It's NOT HARD at all to find new report on instance when Police Fire CS gas indoor and inside people home. They don't just fire a couple CS round, they did in thousand per day (9000 in the past Saturday alone, along with 5000 rounds of munition of all sort)
> 
> News like this is everywhere in Cantonese Speaking news
> 
> http://hd.stheadline.com/news/realtime/hk/1640461/即時-港聞-修例風波-尖沙嘴催淚彈射入屋-低層民居被焚
> 
> It's not hard to find one, but it is quite easy to ignore one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were 5 demands in total, only 1 were met, and it is also a "Sort of"
> 
> The major hurdle for the protestor now is that the government are not willing to form an independent inquiry and investigate the Police Handling of the situation, which most people in Hong Kong (Pro-or Anti-Beijing) think it is heavy handed. The major thing is the Police disregard their own rules of engagement and use deadly force at will (There has been around 8 or 9 shooting) and a lot of Police guideline are broken in dealing with the protestor.
> To a point there were accusation that Police Officer kills protestor and throw them over building or into the ocean and pretend that is a suicide (It has been reported 3000+ case of suicide in Hong Kong since the beginning of protest back in May, which is abnormal...)
> 
> While many other demands are non-achievable (Like universal suffrage) but this one is doable and the government can do it themselves without answer to the north, but Lam don't want to do it for whatever reason. And also another thing, she won't resign, unlike Tung did back in 2003.
> 
> While I am not a fan of the protestor violence tactics, however, if you stand in their shoes, you would want the government to form an independent inquiry for the Police action, and they think if they aren't resort to violence, the government will not listen to them. Much like how the Government did not listen to the peaceful demand of retracting the bill early on in the protest when they are largely peaceful. Some would say the Government leads to its own demise to cave in when the protest turn ugly and not earlier. Some would say the government has done what they can and they can't do anything else but go heavy hand, I reserve my judgement on the issue.
> 
> I just went back to Hong Kong the past week and come back yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what get Hong Kong into trouble in the first place...….
> 
> 
> 
> What agenda would that be? Arm Hong Kong people to fight the Police and the PLA? That would be stupid as they would lose and I don't think it's that easy to smuggle Weapon from US or anywhere in the world to Hong Kong, don't you think?
> 
> Also, I want to ask you, are you supporting or opposing an independent Police Inquiry into Police Brutality?
> 
> 
> 
> They do, otherwise where would Tear Gas goes? Both by directly shoot them into people home, or by secondary contact. They did shoot tear gas grenade directly into people's home (And that cannot be by mistake because you need to aim differently to do that)
> 
> As for secondary contact, It is a gas, which is going to perpetrate into people home, I can launch a teargas into the street I live 3 story above, and I will smell the gas around 15 minutes after it was launched. Now, if you launch hundreds of these in the street, it will not just saturate the street, but also all the residential area on top
> 
> And you cannot denied they did use Tear Gas in enclose area, which is highly prohibited according to International Law.
> 
> About the "Firing incident" if we follow Police Guideline, I am not sure how you gauge an incident, but for Police to use deadly force in Hong Kong, according to Standard Police Operating Procedure, they have to
> 
> 1.) Under the threat of deadly force, either to themselves or to public
> 2.) Have warn the threat of using deadly force.
> 3.) Have clear the potential collateral damage (ie, there cannot be any by-stander around)
> 4.) Have no other non-lethal mean available to them.
> 
> Now, if you look at the video, unless you call chair, umbrella and wooden board are deadly threat. Those still need to clear several hurdle before that officer can use his service revolver.
> 
> Good news for the HKP, they change the "internal guideline" as to how and what they can use force on September 30, and they don't let the public knows. Quoting "this would hamper Police Operation". Umm, the regulation is set forth by the legislative power, which is balanced between the Judiciary and Executive Branch. Could they be just change like that, once again, by the Security Bureau?
> 
> https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/10/...ethal-force-day-officer-shot-student-reports/
> 
> I mean, we are talking about changing the rules of engagement for the use of deadly force, not an internal memo on how to issue parking ticket, people life are at stake here, the Police can just change it and not inform the public? Since when do they have the power to do this?
> 
> In fact, of all the incidents the Police opened fire on Protestor, none of which are justified from the above guideline (Which you can look up in Police Charter in HKP website PGO-29-01) the only instance I can agree deadly force should be use is when one of the officer were attacked by a knife in the neck and now when the protestor use high power bow and arrow.


I don't want to waste my time on you, since you already show your true color. If you have problem on police shooting then sue the police on illegal shooting. Do not quote me anymore.


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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> Are you suggesting that every home in Hong Kong have to have 24h video monitor to record the moment CS flew into people home? I would say if you actually did produce such video, that video is highly likely be fake as it would most likely being staged.
> 
> It's NOT HARD at all to find new report on instance when Police Fire CS gas indoor and inside people home. They don't just fire a couple CS round, they did in thousand per day (9000 in the past Saturday alone, along with 5000 rounds of munition of all sort)
> 
> News like this is everywhere in Cantonese Speaking news
> 
> http://hd.stheadline.com/news/realtime/hk/1640461/即時-港聞-修例風波-尖沙嘴催淚彈射入屋-低層民居被焚
> 
> It's not hard to find one, but it is quite easy to ignore one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were 5 demands in total, only 1 were met, and it is also a "Sort of"
> 
> The major hurdle for the protestor now is that the government are not willing to form an independent inquiry and investigate the Police Handling of the situation, which most people in Hong Kong (Pro-or Anti-Beijing) think it is heavy handed. The major thing is the Police disregard their own rules of engagement and use deadly force at will (There has been around 8 or 9 shooting) and a lot of Police guideline are broken in dealing with the protestor.
> To a point there were accusation that Police Officer kills protestor and throw them over building or into the ocean and pretend that is a suicide (It has been reported 3000+ case of suicide in Hong Kong since the beginning of protest back in May, which is abnormal...)
> 
> While many other demands are non-achievable (Like universal suffrage) but this one is doable and the government can do it themselves without answer to the north, but Lam don't want to do it for whatever reason. And also another thing, she won't resign, unlike Tung did back in 2003.
> 
> While I am not a fan of the protestor violence tactics, however, if you stand in their shoes, you would want the government to form an independent inquiry for the Police action, and they think if they aren't resort to violence, the government will not listen to them. Much like how the Government did not listen to the peaceful demand of retracting the bill early on in the protest when they are largely peaceful. Some would say the Government leads to its own demise to cave in when the protest turn ugly and not earlier. Some would say the government has done what they can and they can't do anything else but go heavy hand, I reserve my judgement on the issue.
> 
> I just went back to Hong Kong the past week and come back yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what get Hong Kong into trouble in the first place...….
> 
> 
> 
> What agenda would that be? Arm Hong Kong people to fight the Police and the PLA? That would be stupid as they would lose and I don't think it's that easy to smuggle Weapon from US or anywhere in the world to Hong Kong, don't you think?
> 
> Also, I want to ask you, are you supporting or opposing an independent Police Inquiry into Police Brutality?
> 
> 
> 
> They do, otherwise where would Tear Gas goes? Both by directly shoot them into people home, or by secondary contact. They did shoot tear gas grenade directly into people's home (And that cannot be by mistake because you need to aim differently to do that)
> 
> As for secondary contact, It is a gas, which is going to perpetrate into people home, I can launch a teargas into the street I live 3 story above, and I will smell the gas around 15 minutes after it was launched. Now, if you launch hundreds of these in the street, it will not just saturate the street, but also all the residential area on top
> 
> And you cannot denied they did use Tear Gas in enclose area, which is highly prohibited according to International Law.
> 
> About the "Firing incident" if we follow Police Guideline, I am not sure how you gauge an incident, but for Police to use deadly force in Hong Kong, according to Standard Police Operating Procedure, they have to
> 
> 1.) Under the threat of deadly force, either to themselves or to public
> 2.) Have warn the threat of using deadly force.
> 3.) Have clear the potential collateral damage (ie, there cannot be any by-stander around)
> 4.) Have no other non-lethal mean available to them.
> 
> Now, if you look at the video, unless you call chair, umbrella and wooden board are deadly threat. Those still need to clear several hurdle before that officer can use his service revolver.
> 
> Good news for the HKP, they change the "internal guideline" as to how and what they can use force on September 30, and they don't let the public knows. Quoting "this would hamper Police Operation". Umm, the regulation is set forth by the legislative power, which is balanced between the Judiciary and Executive Branch. Could they be just change like that, once again, by the Security Bureau?
> 
> https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/10/...ethal-force-day-officer-shot-student-reports/
> 
> I mean, we are talking about changing the rules of engagement for the use of deadly force, not an internal memo on how to issue parking ticket, people life are at stake here, the Police can just change it and not inform the public? Since when do they have the power to do this?
> 
> In fact, of all the incidents the Police opened fire on Protestor, none of which are justified from the above guideline (Which you can look up in Police Charter in HKP website PGO-29-01) the only instance I can agree deadly force should be use is when one of the officer were attacked by a knife in the neck and now when the protestor use high power bow and arrow.


Welcome back after weeks of fighting on street or on campus. How can you escape the police? How did you guys kill the old man cleaning street without feeling evil? Are you demon without heart? How did you burn people having not the same opinion without and called that democracy? Western propaganda taught you that? Western propaganda taught you blocking common street and destruction of property is freedom and peaceful? Why don't you demand investigation on these? You must be rioters' conspirator

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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197442937266688000


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## onebyone

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1170750.shtml


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197526328137768960


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## WebMaster

onebyone said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197442937266688000


Create proper thread titles.


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## Imran Khan

things are not sweet nor soar as media showing in both sides


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## Goku

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182726991675625472@beijingwalker some sinister propaganda against China
Same Propaganda happens against other countries as well


----------



## KungFuLee

bbccdd1470 said:


> I don't want to waste my time on you, since you already show your true color. If you have problem on police shooting then sue the police on illegal shooting. Do not quote me anymore.



And I thought you were the rational one. If you really deplore violence, you should deplore violence from both side, in fact, violence from the Police present much bigger of a deal than the Rioter, we can blame the Rioter or being rascal and started violence, but the Police Force were supposed to be trained, they aren't Triad and heading to the protest to talk math.

But then maybe I was wrong.



grandmaster said:


> Welcome back after weeks of fighting on street or on campus. How can you escape the police? How did you guys kill the old man cleaning street without feeling evil? Are you demon without heart? How did you burn people having not the same opinion without and called that democracy? Western propaganda taught you that? Western propaganda taught you blocking common street and destruction of property is freedom and peaceful? Why don't you demand investigation on these? You must be rioters' conspirator



Yeah, how do I escape the Police?

What a stupid question, if I did not do anything wrong, why was I arrested? In fact, I wish I was arrested, I can probably get rich by false arrest.

I don't condone with the Violence FROM BOTH SIDE, that is my stance from Day 1. You talk like as if I am the one who threw the stone at the poor old man.


----------



## Rasengan

bbccdd1470 said:


> Fortunately, some already forward this to the police. Look like US go full power now with "Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act" and sending their armed dealer to cause troubles. Good luck to us.
> 
> Looking back, that pastor (armed dealer as if he is the same person) arrived around the days the Poly University was barricaded and he wanted to talk to those rioters inside the University. This is highly possible some want to escalate the situation. Luckily, the HK police acted quickly and contained those rioters. Latest news, 1000 surrendered and about 300 are underage.



That's good news. These protesters must realize PlayStation and real life is different. Now they can play macho-man in prison. The police did a good job, but I'm still disappointed that they allowed these thugs to group in the first place. Remember this type of action must have been planned weeks in advance. Capture the pastor and interrogate him.



KungFuLee said:


> That is what get Hong Kong into trouble in the first place...….



Can you please explain.



KungFuLee said:


> And I thought you were the rational one. If you really deplore violence, you should deplore violence from both side, in fact, violence from the Police present much bigger of a deal than the Rioter, we can blame the Rioter or being rascal and started violence, but the Police Force were supposed to be trained, they aren't Triad and heading to the protest to talk math.



I agree to a certain extent with your argument. The police must be restrained as they are supposed to uphold the law of the land. However, the protestors are becoming more violent and extreme in their nature. Thus, throwing flowers and speaking poetry won't stop them. The writ of the state must be upheld and not taken hostage by a group of rioters. Enough is enough. The rioters don't even know the meaning of democracy even if it smacked them in the face. I went to the 1 million march against the Iraq war in London and for years the UK Govt faced stiff resistance from the public. But guess what? People didn't threaten others on the street who disagreed with them. They didn't arm themselves with bows and chucked inflammable material at the police. I would have supported there right to protest but they chose violence. How many of the leading protestors (figures) have condemned the violence? Guess what they won't because they are even scared they will be targeted by these thugs.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viva_Viet

KungFuLee said:


> Yeah, how do I escape the Police?
> 
> What a stupid question, if I did not do anything wrong, why was I arrested? In fact, I wish I was arrested, I can probably get rich by false arrest.
> 
> I don't condone with the Violence FROM BOTH SIDE, that is my stance from Day 1. You talk like as if I am the one who threw the stone at the poor old man.


HK police r heartless now, they may use cars to ram and kill HKer without any reason again.

U can see in the video from the link. HK police cars ram the HKer without any reason and may got No charge again.

https://m.tinhhoa.net/canh-sat-hong...ng-1-sinh-vien-tu-vong-sau-khi-nhap-vien.html

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## KungFuLee

Rasengan said:


> Can you please explain.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree to a certain extent with your argument. The police must be restrained as they are supposed to uphold the law of the land. However, the protestors are becoming more violent and extreme in their nature. Thus, throwing flowers and speaking poetry won't stop them. The writ of the state must be upheld and not taken hostage by a group of rioters. Enough is enough. The rioters don't even know the meaning of democracy even if it smacked them in the face. I went to the 1 million march against the Iraq war in London and for years the UK Govt faced stiff resistance from the public. But guess what? People didn't threaten others on the street who disagreed with them. They didn't arm themselves with bows and chucked inflammable material at the police. I would have supported there right to protest but they chose violence. How many of the leading protestors (figures) have condemned the violence? Guess what they won't because they are even scared they will be targeted by these thugs.



This thing started from the Police and Security Bureau being overly power to a point they can start making up laws as they goes, and you suggest a forcible removal of certain religious group without due process or even reasons. That would give more power to the Security Bureau.

Also, in case you are wondering, HK police has started targeting Muslim in Hong Kong, a street rumour says that many of the protestor are planning to convert to Muslim so they can wear head scarf and mask as a religious ritual, in many forum, Facebook group there are application to join Mosque circulating in those area. And the Police did target Hong Kong Mosque a think a few months ago where they use water canon with paint and pepper spray on the front gate of a mosque, IIRC the Police said they are mistargeted but well, what I heard is, it happened multiple time.

As for How Police target the protestor, what you say I can agree on only if all the protestor are rioter, as I said, I am not a fan of violence, I purport the government to prosecute anyone to the full extend who break the law, any law, be it damaging properties or harm another person, however, you need to know there are innocent people just happened to be in the location at the wrong place and at the wrong time. Just because people are rioting, that does not mean normal people like you and me does not need to go anywhere, we still have work, school and our daily chores to do, which mean I can be "involved" in a protest by just going across the road and to the local Wellcome Supermarket and buy food, if they happened to protest in my area. 

Take Poly U as an example, there were actually 2 group of people beside the Police in that incident, the people who held on to the Campus, and the people outside the campus begging the Police to let these people leave, generally they are the parent of the student, Police start firing Smoke Grenade, Stun Grenade, CS and Rubber Buller, it would not just be the people inside that Campus will take a toll, but people outside too. And they did nothing wrong beside kneeling down to the Police and beg them to let those people goes. And that is even if we count all 1000 or so people INSIDE the campus are all Rioter, which we would know some are not, because some are teacher trying to defuse the situation and some are volunteer Medic and Media personnel who have a job to do.

I am not saying Police should not use force to control the protest, I am saying they should use equal amount of force, you want to clear off the protestor? Police can bring out Assault Rifle and start shooting, that would make people scram really quickly, but would that mean the Police have won? They do bring out AR-15 and SIG551 rifle to counter protest. The problem is not the Police should not use force on people who are INDEED Breaking the law, but the Police uses force on EVERYONE indiscriminately, that is where the problem started.

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## Brainsucker

Viva_Viet said:


> HK police r heartless now, they may use cars to ram and kill HKer without any reason again.
> 
> U can see in the video from the link. HK police cars ram the HKer without any reason and may got No charge again.
> 
> https://m.tinhhoa.net/canh-sat-hong...ng-1-sinh-vien-tu-vong-sau-khi-nhap-vien.html



Yeah, Vietnam Rioters should learn from HK ones.  So when they angry to China next time, they can burn more factories. Don't worry, we will take them who are got violated in your country.


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## Viva_Viet

Brainsucker said:


> Yeah, Vietnam Rioters should learn from HK ones.  So when they angry to China next time, they can burn more factories. Don't worry, we will take them who are got violated in your country.


And my salay still increase 25% last year, 20 this year and could be 20 %next year,too while u r still jobless and dont know what to do but talking nonsense on internet 24/24 h cos No Cnese factories wanna hire u


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## Dungeness




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## bbccdd1470

Rasengan said:


> That's good news. These protesters must realize PlayStation and real life is different. Now they can play macho-man in prison. The police did a good job, but I'm still disappointed that they allowed these thugs to group in the first place. Remember this type of action must have been planned weeks in advance. Capture the pastor and interrogate him.


The HK police is still too green on this kind of stuffs, and that pastor already fleed HK once his identity was blown. Something was wrong about him if he is really a pastor, he should have nothing to afraid of.

FungFuLee's narrative is nothing new, the same narrative of 和理非 but he is just smarter and knowledgeable one. At this point, majority of normal people are suffering of all those violence, damaged properties and disrupted traffics by the rioters, while those 和理非 would still put the focus on the police brutality instead of how those rioters should stop the violence. They tend to tell you something but omit others.

Like the police shooting in Sai Wan Ho, the fact was there were no protesters since there was no protest, those were rioters who were disrupting traffics. That rioter got shot because he tried to grab the police gun while the police officer alone was struggling with another rioter psychically and few were charging at him. This is very reasonable for the police officer to use his gun to disable his threat immediately. Because firstly this was the only weapon he could use at that moment, and secondly what would happen if his gun got grabbed by the rioter where this could become a very deadly situation. The judgment of police shooting is always depended on the perception of that police officer on how dangerous of the situation, not us who sit in front of the keyboard.

Another thing I want to clarify that is the Poly U incident, the police had already asked the people, who were not participating in the riot, should leave the University for the whole morning and afternoon (the police have provided an escape way for them, only at night those wanted to leave and surrender would be charged or arrested). Anyone who is innocent should already leave the campus before night, those who stayed were hardcore, violence or naive one who think they should hold on against the police. Also anyone who can provide legitimate proof that they are reporters and first aiders will not be charged of any crime, only those who have no reason to be there will be charged, even the Poly U students who were stayed behind have high chance to get away as long as they can provide the reasonable causes why they could not leave.

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## Brainsucker

Viva_Viet said:


> And my salay still increase 25% last year, 20 this year and could be 20 %next year,too while u r still jobless and dont know what to do but talking nonsense on internet 24/24 h cos No Cnese factories wanna hire u



Well, good job for creating money for China company, you serve them well, LOL.


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## Viva_Viet

Brainsucker said:


> Well, good job for creating money for China company, you serve them well, LOL.


Dont twist the truth dude, that wont help u get good job during CN-US trade war

Many VN companies increase 20%-25% salary for the staff after too many orders shifting from CN to VN


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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> Yeah, how do I escape the Police?
> 
> What a stupid question, if I did not do anything wrong, why was I arrested? In fact, I wish I was arrested, I can probably get rich by false arrest.
> 
> I don't condone with the Violence FROM BOTH SIDE, that is my stance from Day 1. You talk like as if I am the one who threw the stone at the poor old man.


This is stupid way to hide your conspiracy. You said you hadn't done wrong hence police did not do anything to you. That means police is reasonable and not violent which is contradictory to what you said.

You said as if you want police should obey Western propaganda commands to do nothing just stay there to watch you and your rebel friends acting evil like killing innocents, burning the city, etc.
You said as if you want people just listen to Western propaganda and be silent about the evil acts of rioters, etc.


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## Viva_Viet

grandmaster said:


> This is stupid way to hide your conspiracy. You said you hadn't done wrong hence police did not do anything to you. That means police is reasonable and not violent which is contradictory to what you said.
> 
> You said as if you want police should obey Western propaganda commands to do nothing just stay there to watch you and your rebel friends acting evil like killing innocents, burning the city, etc.
> You said as if you want people just listen to Western propaganda and be silent about the evil acts of rioters, etc.


Bcs HK police forgot to listen to their white master, so they soon will get ban from buying tear gas and rubber bullet. So they have Nothing to fight back petrol bomb and arrow


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## Rasengan

KungFuLee said:


> This thing started from the Police and Security Bureau being overly power to a point they can start making up laws as they goes, and you suggest a forcible removal of certain religious group without due process or even reasons. That would give more power to the Security Bureau.
> .



The mechanism was wrong but the intention behind the policy was noble. Regardless, the bill was defeated, instead of being pacified the rebels are demanding more. When did I advocate for the forcible removal of a religious group without due process? Those who enter HK with the intention of causing harm must be arrested on the spot. I don't care if he is a Muslim, Jewish, Christian or even a Jedi from Star Wars.




KungFuLee said:


> Also, in case you are wondering, HK police has started targeting Muslim in Hong Kong, a street rumour says that many of the protestor are planning to convert to Muslim so they can wear head scarf and mask as a religious ritual, in many forum, Facebook group there are application to join Mosque circulating in those area. And the Police did target Hong Kong Mosque a think a few months ago where they use water canon with paint and pepper spray on the front gate of a mosque, IIRC the Police said they are mistargeted but well, what I heard is, it happened multiple time.



The HK Govt apologized when the police sprayed paint and were helpful in cleaning the mess. I have a few Muslim friends who live in HK and trust me they don't feel intimidated by the police or are harrassed. What you are articulating is a conjecture. If it does happen then we can discuss the merit of the argument.



KungFuLee said:


> As for How Police target the protestor, what you say I can agree on only if all the protestor are rioter, as I said, I am not a fan of violence, I purport the government to prosecute anyone to the full extend who break the law, any law, be it damaging properties or harm another person, however, you need to know there are innocent people just happened to be in the location at the wrong place and at the wrong time. Just because people are rioting, that does not mean normal people like you and me does not need to go anywhere, we still have work, school and our daily chores to do, which mean I can be "involved" in a protest by just going across the road and to the local Wellcome Supermarket and buy food, if they happened to protest in my area.



I don't disagree with this argument. Like I said before the innocent people of HK should have the right to protest but not at the expense of others. I personally find the protestors hypocrites. On one hand they are fighting for democracy and freedom of speech. However, such rights won't be given to @bbccdd1470. The minute he opens his mouth in front of these rioters with a different opinion he will be lynched. You may claim that the protestors and rioters are different. But why haven't the leaders of the protest movement called for a rally in protecting the freedom of all people of HK rather than their own political beliefs. I have a friend in the HK police force and I have told him many times the lackluster performance of the organization and he readily admits it. What do you expect from a police force which is ill-prepared to face such events? I mean the last five months have been unprecedented in HK's history. They need to be trained and be give more strict discipline. The police force are human too. When they are surrounded by hundreds of people do you expect any sane person to react professionally? If so then you don't understand human behavior. Like @bbccdd1470 if a policeman breaks the law of conduct in the department's manual then sue him/her.




KungFuLee said:


> Take Poly U as an example, there were actually 2 group of people beside the Police in that incident, the people who held on to the Campus, and the people outside the campus begging the Police to let these people leave, generally they are the parent of the student, Police start firing Smoke Grenade, Stun Grenade, CS and Rubber Buller, it would not just be the people inside that Campus will take a toll, but people outside too. And they did nothing wrong beside kneeling down to the Police and beg them to let those people goes. And that is even if we count all 1000 or so people INSIDE the campus are all Rioter, which we would know some are not, because some are teacher trying to defuse the situation and some are volunteer Medic and Media personnel who have a job to do..



This shouldn't have happened. I have criticized the conduct of the police force on this occasion to @bbccdd1470. This incident made HK look like a banana republic. It was a massive intelligence failure, heads should be rolling and people fired. What pisses me off about the HK police force is its bloody performance. They are a reactionary force rather than an actionary force. Why aren't none of the ring leaders arrested? I want to see results rather than letting the chaos continue in HK. I want the rioters arrested not the protesters. This is a key distinction. I want the police to use force with precision rather than using it on everyone.



bbccdd1470 said:


> The HK police is still too green on this kind of stuffs, and that pastor already fleed HK once his identity was blown. Something was wrong about him if he is really a pastor, he should have nothing to afraid of..



Brother the HK police may be green but we can't use that as an excuse. The pastor should have been arrested before he could've fled. This speaks of intelligence failure. People's lives are at stake here, so HK should be active in stopping foreign extremists from participating with these protestors.



bbccdd1470 said:


> FungFuLee's narrative is nothing new, the same narrative of 和理非 but he is just smarter and knowledgeable one. At this point, majority of normal people are suffering of all those violence, damaged properties and disrupted traffics by the rioters, while those 和理非 would still put the focus on the police brutality instead of how those rioters should stop the violence. They tend to tell you something but omit others.



I personally don't know @KungFuLee views on this issue. I will always maintain a group has the right to protest but not at the expense of others. Violence, damage of property and disruption of normal life is against the principle of democracy. These protestors are focused on police brutality, yet they must look within. You told everyone on this forum how you mother was nearly attacked for her views. Guess what brother, my friend who is leaving for next month back to HK even admitted he wouldn't have the guts to tell these rioters to stop using violence. Do you know why? Because he will be lynched and anyone who disagrees with that during the current climate of HK is living in cloud cooku land.



bbccdd1470 said:


> Like the police shooting in Sai Wan Ho, the fact was there were no protesters since there was no protest, those were rioters who were disrupting traffics. That rioter got shot because he tried to grab the police gun while the police officer alone was struggling with another rioter psychically and few were charging at him. This is very reasonable for the police officer to use his gun to disable his threat immediately. Because firstly this was the only weapon he could use at that moment, and secondly what would happen if his gun got grabbed by the rioter where this could become a very deadly situation. The judgment of police shooting is always depended on the perception of that police officer on how dangerous of the situation, not us who sit in front of the keyboard.



I see nothing wrong with that. Across the world, the standard procedure of the police is to shoot anyone who attempts to grab the gun. Its what armed police are trained to do. They can't show hesitation because in another scenario that could be the difference between saving innocent life or being responsible for the death of other people because you failed to take action. Your last two sentences summed it up perfectly.

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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> This is stupid way to hide your conspiracy. You said you hadn't done wrong hence police did not do anything to you. That means police is reasonable and not violent which is contradictory to what you said.
> 
> You said as if you want police should obey Western propaganda commands to do nothing just stay there to watch you and your rebel friends acting evil like killing innocents, burning the city, etc.
> You said as if you want people just listen to Western propaganda and be silent about the evil acts of rioters, etc.



What a stupid assumption.

What DOES NOT happened to me does not mean it DOES NOT happened to anyone, I did not do anything wrong because I did not do anything, I went back to Hong Kong, celebrate my mother's birthday, and I come back, that's it.

There are DOCUMENTED incident that Police arrest Volunteer Medic and line them up on the street, which they wear yellow Fluoro shirt clearly identify them as Medic, then there are reporter both from domestic agency and international agency were shot at and detained, how about the old people they come down to the site and beg the Police to take a step back, do they break any law? unless you are claiming all these people. 

These medic/nurse/doctor were accused of interference with first responder. Strange, because doctor, nurse and medic WERE the first responder.






How about these student, do they look like Rioter to you? Or they are just student going back to school?






Or these?








Again, Conspiracy is not going to affect me because I WAS THERE, you are not, you are, on the other hand, hide under your own discrepancy and conspiracy, let me ask you a question, were you in Hong Kong since May this year?


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## KungFuLee

Rasengan said:


> The mechanism was wrong but the intention behind the policy was noble. Regardless, the bill was defeated, instead of being pacified the rebels are demanding more. When did I advocate for the forcible removal of a religious group without due process? Those who enter HK with the intention of causing harm must be arrested on the spot. I don't care if he is a Muslim, Jewish, Christian or even a Jedi from Star Wars.



That's is still wrong, just because you retracted it, that does not mean they didn't do anything wrong to begin with, as to why it was wrong, Most of the people here aren't familiar with the Hong Kong system, so they probably don't understand why it was wrong, I tried to explain before and you can look it up on this thread, but I would say, this is done, and the bill was defeated, it would better just move on.




> The HK Govt apologized when the police sprayed paint and were helpful in cleaning the mess. I have a few Muslim friends who live in HK and trust me they don't feel intimidated by the police or are harrassed. What you are articulating is a conjecture. If it does happen then we can discuss the merit of the argument.



Well, depending on the view, and how the incident unfolded.

To begin with, would you be "mistargeted" when a mosque is quite a distinctive building? As I said before, you don't fire bullet or water canon by accident, if you do, you probably are not competent on operating such equipment. So either way, there are problem there. On the other hand, how come no temple or even church (or at least no report on it) were "Accidentally" targeted?

Yes, it is a conjecture, but still, it is a valid one, of course at this point we won't know were they targeted, and truth be told, we will probably never know. And I do not speak for Muslim, as I am not one. I am just saying these type of thing does exist, it is up to you to interpret if that was a mistake or intentional.



> I don't disagree with this argument. Like I said before the innocent people of HK should have the right to protest but not at the expense of others. I personally find the protestors hypocrites. On one hand they are fighting for democracy and freedom of speech. However, such rights won't be given to @bbccdd1470. The minute he opens his mouth in front of these rioters with a different opinion he will be lynched. You may claim that the protestors and rioters are different. But why haven't the leaders of the protest movement called for a rally in protecting the freedom of all people of HK rather than their own political beliefs. I have a friend in the HK police force and I have told him many times the lackluster performance of the organization and he readily admits it. What do you expect from a police force which is ill-prepared to face such events? I mean the last five months have been unprecedented in HK's history. They need to be trained and be give more strict discipline. The police force are human too. When they are surrounded by hundreds of people do you expect any sane person to react professionally? If so then you don't understand human behavior. Like @bbccdd1470 if a policeman breaks the law of conduct in the department's manual then sue him/her.



All I can say is, bad apple everywhere, and as I said, I detest violence from both side.

You've heard @bbccdd1470 story, how about let me tell you what happened to my mother last month, I am not going to tell you where she live (that will mean I am telling you where I live back in Hong Kong), but we live in a low level apartment building, and they have this massive protest down on the street, where the Riot Police fire about 300 tear gas grenade to clear the protest. Being in October, it was still quite hot, which is in high 20s and low 30s, and they have 1 window open even tho they were warned to have all the window closed. So they can't close that window quick enough and tear gas started siphon in our home, my mother being a 67 years old, was feeling extremely unwell. even when my brother get her a towel with water to cover her face, so my brother call the ambulance and try to have my mother bring to a hospital.

He called, the Ambulance cannot come in, because of the people on the street is protesting, the "Black Shirt" is fighting the police, my brother managed to find a volunteer medic, and the two of them go up and help my mother, do what they can until the ambulance arrive (as she needed pure O2) and one of the protester saw this, a few protestor follow them to my home, my brother thought they were going to make trouble, but upon seeing what my mother went thru, one of the protestor put a respirator on my mother and the 7 of them (5 protestor, my brother, and the medic) carry my mother out of the protest area where they know there would be ambulance stand by. So basically, they carry my mother across 6 street and flag down an ambulance. The Paramedic take over, but at this moment, the Police show up, they surround the ambulance (which is clearly marked with the paramedic wearing their uniform and the volunteer medic in high-vis jacket. They arrested the whole crew, my mother included, and basically detail them all for about 3 hours before letting the Ambulance goes.

The Doctor treat my mother later commented that the Police were crazy to stop the patient transport for 3 hours, my mother would have died from heart attack induced by heat stroke and other respiratory distress. And you know what, that is because they were next to 5 protestor, and my mother wasn't even pro-protestor, in fact, she lecture the protestor when they carry them thru the street to the waiting Ambulance, telling them this is wrong and only hurting normal people.

I am not talking about training, or preparation, I have friend (actually quite a lot of friend as Police in HK are very good job in term of money and prospect for university graduate) but what I am saying is the Police did not use their common judgement, and common sense when they were targeting these people, many video you can see on youtube and other platform you can see Police are separated and basically beat people up with baton, shield and etc. I show the some of the clip to a local NSW Police inspector, what he said is this is not Police Operation, this is more like a beat down, because, according to him, in Police Riot Control Operation the Unit need to maintain coherent and they would hold formation, the instant officer break formation and chase after protestor (which is commonly seen scene in HK Protest) is dangerous, because you don't know what or who is waiting on you on the other side, you may get ambushed and your mate will not be in the position to help you.

Also , another issue is not Police broke the rule, but rather the organisation change the rule to suit their operational requirement, and then do not tell the public about it. In this instance, the Police Force changed the guideline on use of deadly force 1 day before they shot a protestor in the chest, without telling anyone the guideline has changed, you no longer need to positive identify the threat, and you no longer need to clear the scene for by-stander. You just need to have a perceive threat and you can use deadly force.

Now, this is not an internal guideline as to how to issue parking ticket. You are not changing the rule from 20 minutes staying in the spot illegally to 10 minutes, you are talking about the use of deadly force, somebody life is at stake here, and in Hong Kong, people are presumed innocent before proven guilty.

And suing them? Lol, which one you rather be, not getting shot by a better safety net present to you? or got shot then sue the department because they move the goal post?? I would think any sane person choose the former.





> This shouldn't have happened. I have criticized the conduct of the police force on this occasion to @bbccdd1470. This incident made HK look like a banana republic. It was a massive intelligence failure, heads should be rolling and people fired. What pisses me off about the HK police force is its bloody performance. They are a reactionary force rather than an actionary force. Why aren't none of the ring leaders arrested? I want to see results rather than letting the chaos continue in HK. I want the rioters arrested not the protesters. This is a key distinction. I want the police to use force with precision rather than using it on everyone.



The thing is, what is Rioter and what is Protestor?

In some black and white case, it's easy, people who chant slogan outside a shop is a protestor, people who smash the window and burn down the shop is a rioter.

But in Poly U, those are different, if you are going by the definition of law, then I would say majority of those are just protestor, and maybe not more than 5% of the people in Poly U are rioter, which throw petrol bomb and stone back at Police. The majority of those are just protestor, on the other hand, they will be ALL arrested with the charge of Rioting regardless of their status of being a Rioter or Protestor. as @bbccdd1470 said, Police were asking for them to surrender, however, what he did not tell you is that they also block people from leaving the campus, because if they surrender, they would be arrested. It's not like you surrender at that point and amnesty applies and you go home. And that is before violence broke out as Police try to storm the building.

So in this case, would you surrender and get arrested and possible a beat down. Or you really believe everyone in there are rioter?




> I personally don't know @KungFuLee views on this issue. I will always maintain a group has the right to protest but not at the expense of others. Violence, damage of property and disruption of normal life is against the principle of democracy. These protestors are focused on police brutality, yet they must look within. You told everyone on this forum how you mother was nearly attacked for her views. Guess what brother, my friend who is leaving for next month back to HK even admitted he wouldn't have the guts to tell these rioters to stop using violence. Do you know why? Because he will be lynched and anyone who disagrees with that during the current climate of HK is living in cloud cooku land.
> 
> 
> 
> I see nothing wrong with that. Across the world, the standard procedure of the police is to shoot anyone who attempts to grab the gun. Its what armed police are trained to do. They can't show hesitation because in another scenario that could be the difference between saving innocent life or being responsible for the death of other people because you failed to take action. Your last two sentences summed it up perfectly.



As I represent another side of the issue, @bbccdd1470 also only represent one side of issue, the problem is, the Hong Kong it used to be is a land of law. And to reply to your second point, if it is with the old guideline (Which changed internally on 30, September, 2019) the Police Officer would be breaking the guideline.

First of all, the person is allegedly trying to steal the weapon from the officer, a claim lay with the officer who shot the person. We don't know if that is true. Secondly, Police equipment, especially their firearm are hard to steal, as you cannot pull it out straight from the holster, and my Police Friend also had explained to me, normally you won't shoot a person trying to steal your gun, because either you reach it BEFORE he grab the weapon, by which the threat does not materialize yet, or you reach it AFTER he grab the weapon, by which the threat would have already gone. If he is stealing your gun, you can't shoot him as both of you are struggling for it. The standard procedure when someone is trying to steal your weapon is to use baton or Capsicum Spray to subdue the person, not shoot him. Usually shooting related to stealing weapon is your partner who do the shooting, because then the perpetrator would have get hold of the officer weapon, and that is the point where the threat materialise. Not before nor After

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## JSCh

I though there are proper places for protesting, in open area and not resident area. Where the gov't can properly prepared so that the lives of ordinary people would not be put in harms way and be minimally disturbed. They don't have such rule in HK?


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## Beast

KungFuLee said:


> First of all, the person is allegedly trying to steal the weapon from the officer, a claim lay with the officer who shot the person. We don't know if that is true. Secondly, Police equipment, especially their firearm are hard to steal, as you cannot pull it out straight from the holster, and my Police Friend also had explained to me, normally you won't shoot a person trying to steal your gun, because either you reach it BEFORE he grab the weapon, by which the threat does not materialize yet, or you reach it AFTER he grab the weapon, by which the threat would have already gone. If he is stealing your gun, you can't shoot him as both of you are struggling for it. The standard procedure when someone is trying to steal your weapon is to use baton or Capsicum Spray to subdue the person, not shoot him. Usually shooting related to stealing weapon is your partner who do the shooting, because then the perpetrator would have get hold of the officer weapon, and that is the point where the threat materialise. Not before nor After


What a pack of nonsense. They are 2 attacker on the police and you think every HK policeman are Bruce Lee? The police has right to open fire on the protestor trying to snatch his gun not once but twice. Losing his gun to rioters is extremely dangerous. He used what is the best method to deal in the situation and not possible method.



KungFuLee said:


> The thing is, what is Rioter and what is Protestor?
> 
> In some black and white case, it's easy, people who chant slogan outside a shop is a protestor, people who smash the window and burn down the shop is a rioter.
> 
> But in Poly U, those are different, if you are going by the definition of law, then I would say majority of those are just protestor, and maybe not more than 5% of the people in Poly U are rioter, which throw petrol bomb and stone back at Police. The majority of those are just protestor, on the other hand, they will be ALL arrested with the charge of Rioting regardless of their status of being a Rioter or Protestor.



It's easy for you armchair general to brag about how u think rioters is only 5% in poly U hold up. When leathal arrows and catapult start flying, rocks and petrol bomb throw at you. And you think it will be easy or time to try differential rioters or protestors. The best way is order all hold up inside to surrender. Those don follow stand down will be treated as rioters and arrested first.

Police are also human. They have the right to protect themselves. Unless you tell me arrows or petrol bomb don't kill... You are twisting up events and selectively picking on things just to suit to your agenda.


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## Goku

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197969457353768960@KungFuLee


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## KungFuLee

JSCh said:


> I though there are proper places for protesting, in open area and not resident area. Where the gov't can properly prepared so that the lives of ordinary people would not be put in harms way and be minimally disturbed. They don't have such rule in HK?



There aren't many open area in Hong Kong, mostly thru parkland and highway (if you are organising a demonstration and walk/drive along the way), you need to apply for a permit for protesting, and basically that is a negotiation between the organiser and the police.

But if you can get a permit, that most likely does not just be in open area



Beast said:


> What a pack of nonsense. They are 2 attacker on the police and you think every HK policeman are Bruce Lee? The police has right to open fire on the protestor trying to snatch his gun not once but twice. Losing his gun to rioters is extremely dangerous. He used what is the best method to deal in the situation and not possible method.



I am not sure if it is true in China, in Hong Kong, you did not commit a crime BEFORE you went to a judge and found guilty, you may not have that in China, but we do have that in Hong Kong. Otherwise the police can just shoot people at will and claim they are trying to get their weapon
.
The Officer claim someone is going after his weapon, that does not mean

A.) Someone is indeed going after his weapon (That is to be determined by the judiciary procedure, not with what the Police Officer said)
B.) He is right to use his firearm. Under the old guideline, he still have to try to use non-lethal force first

Also, it's very hard to try to steal an officer service revolver, I personally have the experience on try to take a service revolver from a police officer from one of those demonstration in a police open day. You need to pull the revolver close to the officer and unbuckle the button at the same time. So you would have 6 or 7 seconds to resolve, which is enough mean for



> It's easy for you armchair general to brag about how u think rioters is only 5% in poly U hold up. When leathal arrows and catapult start flying, rocks and petrol bomb throw at you. And you think it will be easy or time to try differential rioters or protestors. The best way is order all hold up inside to surrender. Those don follow stand down will be treated as rioters and arrested first.
> 
> Police are also human. They have the right to protect themselves. Unless you tell me arrows or petrol bomb don't kill... You are twisting up events and selectively picking on things just to suit to your agenda.



So, you have a number? While sitting at your armchair in China?

I know people from Poly U, I myself went to Poly U, those figure is from a friend of mine, who is also happened to be Student Union rep on site, so unless you have some more "creditable" number. I will stick to mine.

Let me also tell you these, if half of the 400 people are all rioter and throwing Petrol Bomb, Molotov Cocktail and stone, Poly U campus would have burnt down already. I mean would you actually have enough Petrol Bomb and Molotov Cocktail to go around if half of those in Poly U campus are rioter.

I am not saying Arrow and Petrol Bomb does not kill, I am saying you cannot target the whole group of people if at least a part of it does not do anything wrong. The truth is they do not just target people from inside Poly U campus, but also people outside, which is mainly the parent of the people inside.



Goku said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197969457353768960@KungFuLee



Saw that on the morning news.

We all know Chinese Government were meddling in the middle of it even before all these, I think at one instant they found out there were either Police or PLA goes undercover with pretend to be a protester and gain information. And it was uncovered by journalist.

On the other hand, I don't think he is the first one like the article mentioned, If I remember correctly, there were this Chinese Embassy official who most likely a spy have deflected to Australia some time ago.


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## Rasengan

KungFuLee said:


> That's is still wrong, just because you retracted it, that does not mean they didn't do anything wrong to begin with, as to why it was wrong, Most of the people here aren't familiar with the Hong Kong system, so they probably don't understand why it was wrong, I tried to explain before and you can look it up on this thread, but I would say, this is done, and the bill was defeated, it would better just move on.



It may have been wrong and the public may have been justified to protest against such a bill. The Govt was defeated so people need to get over it and continue on with their lives. This movement is going beyond its mandate. In my opinion, they are exposing themselves (extremists). Stopping the bill was just an excuse. Their real intention is getting independence from China. I can be wrong in my analysis but this is the perception shown to me on TV. 



KungFuLee said:


> Well, depending on the view, and how the incident unfolded.
> 
> To begin with, would you be "mistargeted" when a mosque is quite a distinctive building? As I said before, you don't fire bullet or water canon by accident, if you do, you probably are not competent on operating such equipment. So either way, there are problem there. On the other hand, how come no temple or even church (or at least no report on it) were "Accidentally" targeted?



A person's view is shaped by there political biases. Some can view the incident as intentional while others can clearly understand it was a mistake. Why was the building targeted? Did the police spray paint because of a large number of protestors were hanging around the Mosque? As a Muslim, I would have been furious if the Govt didn't clean up the mess and apologize. But on both accounts, the Govt did reciprocate thus the incident must be forgotten and people's lives must continue. I want to see harmony in HK and not division. In my personal opinion, I regard the HK police incompetent in operating equipment, intelligence failure, the late response in stopping the rioters from damaging public property and in how they engage the public. Not everyone is a rioter, thus profiling innocent people is humiliating. Public profiling happened in London a couple of years ago and the end result wasn't good. It created resentment from the community toward the police. 






KungFuLee said:


> Yes, it is a conjecture, but still, it is a valid one, of course at this point we won't know were they targeted, and truth be told, we will probably never know. And I do not speak for Muslim, as I am not one. I am just saying these type of thing does exist, it is up to you to interpret if that was a mistake or intentional.



It can't be valid unless you have evidence to show it was intentional. The protest movement itself has nothing to do with Muslims who are most likely not indigenous to the region. What does the HK police achieve in targeting Muslim's? The most sensible conclusion was the incompetence of the police. 



KungFuLee said:


> All I can say is, bad apple everywhere, and as I said, I detest violence from both side.



I agree. There are bad apples in every society. I'm glad you detest violence from both sides. I know you are consistent with this view. HK needs dialogue and it needs unity.




KungFuLee said:


> You've heard @bbccdd1470 story, how about let me tell you what happened to my mother last month, I am not going to tell you where she live (that will mean I am telling you where I live back in Hong Kong), but we live in a low level apartment building, and they have this massive protest down on the street, where the Riot Police fire about 300 tear gas grenade to clear the protest. Being in October, it was still quite hot, which is in high 20s and low 30s, and they have 1 window open even tho they were warned to have all the window closed. So they can't close that window quick enough and tear gas started siphon in our home, my mother being a 67 years old, was feeling extremely unwell. even when my brother get her a towel with water to cover her face, so my brother call the ambulance and try to have my mother bring to a hospital.



In the current climate, people should always keep the residence of there family a secret. I'm glad you took this measure. I'm sorry to hear about your mother's horrible experience. No person should go through that. Although the riot police are outnumbered in some cases they should always choose the least dangerous action which can have an effect on the public. Firing tear gas can be extremely dangerous to old people especially. I know from my friend on extremely hot days when windows are shut it can become unbearable. So I can understand why the window was open even though the early warning was given. Your brother did the correct thing to cover her face with a wet towel and then call the ambulance. 




KungFuLee said:


> He called, the Ambulance cannot come in, because of the people on the street is protesting, the "Black Shirt" is fighting the police, my brother managed to find a volunteer medic, and the two of them go up and help my mother, do what they can until the ambulance arrive (as she needed pure O2) and one of the protester saw this, a few protestor follow them to my home, my brother thought they were going to make trouble, but upon seeing what my mother went thru, one of the protestor put a respirator on my mother and the 7 of them (5 protestor, my brother, and the medic) carry my mother out of the protest area where they know there would be ambulance stand by. So basically, they carry my mother across 6 street and flag down an ambulance. The Paramedic take over, but at this moment, the Police show up, they surround the ambulance (which is clearly marked with the paramedic wearing their uniform and the volunteer medic in high-vis jacket. They arrested the whole crew, my mother included, and basically detail them all for about 3 hours before letting the Ambulance goes.



I don't agree with what the protestors stand for. However, what those 5 protestors did was a noble action which puts a smile on my face. The world is a dark place, so much suffering, yet humanity can still exist within us. What I don't understand is the behavior of the police. HK is going through a turbulent period but under no circumstances does it compare to the problems of Pakistan back in 2011. Even during a war zone, our military and police would never stop citizens from seeking medical attention. I think you have every right to sue the police department in this incident. This is why I said before the HK police is incompetent. I don't know how I would have reacted to the police if I was in your situation. I most likely would have used violence. Nothing is more precious to an individual than their mother. We have a saying Islam"heaven lies under your mother's feet," so don't break her heart and always be a good son or daughter to her. I'm sorry to hear you went through that traumatic experience. 



KungFuLee said:


> The Doctor treat my mother later commented that the Police were crazy to stop the patient transport for 3 hours, my mother would have died from heart attack induced by heat stroke and other respiratory distress. And you know what, that is because they were next to 5 protestor, and my mother wasn't even pro-protestor, in fact, she lecture the protestor when they carry them thru the street to the waiting Ambulance, telling them this is wrong and only hurting normal people.



I wouldn't be surprised listening to the comments of the doctor. Sometimes you need to use common sense and a touch of humanity to follow what's right rather than the rule book. Thank God, your mother was strong enough to pull through because in many cases brother old people would die from a heart attack induced by heatstroke. I can just imagine your mother telling them off in Cantonese. But they were respectful enough as they should be to listen to an elder person. 



KungFuLee said:


> I am not talking about training, or preparation, I have friend (actually quite a lot of friend as Police in HK are very good job in term of money and prospect for university graduate) but what I am saying is the Police did not use their common judgement, and common sense when they were targeting these people, many video you can see on youtube and other platform you can see Police are separated and basically beat people up with baton, shield and etc. I show the some of the clip to a local NSW Police inspector, what he said is this is not Police Operation, this is more like a beat down, because, according to him, in Police Riot Control Operation the Unit need to maintain coherent and they would hold formation, the instant officer break formation and chase after protestor (which is commonly seen scene in HK Protest) is dangerous, because you don't know what or who is waiting on you on the other side, you may get ambushed and your mate will not be in the position to help you.



You showed some of the clip to a local NSW Police inspector and he told you this wasn't the standard procedure of the Riot Police Unit. If what you said was true and I have no reason to doubt your claim brother then we can only come up with one conclusion. The police training is inadequate. When you join any force common sense is drilled into you when you have such scenario's transpiring in the real world rather than practice drills. When you took this information to him did he suspend those involved? 



KungFuLee said:


> Also , another issue is not Police broke the rule, but rather the organisation change the rule to suit their operational requirement, and then do not tell the public about it. In this instance, the Police Force changed the guideline on use of deadly force 1 day before they shot a protestor in the chest, without telling anyone the guideline has changed, you no longer need to positive identify the threat, and you no longer need to clear the scene for by-stander. You just need to have a perceive threat and you can use deadly force.
> 
> Now, this is not an internal guideline as to how to issue parking ticket. You are not changing the rule from 20 minutes staying in the spot illegally to 10 minutes, you are talking about the use of deadly force, somebody life is at stake here, and in Hong Kong, people are presumed innocent before proven guilty.
> 
> And suing them? Lol, which one you rather be, not getting shot by a better safety net present to you? or got shot then sue the department because they move the goal post?? I would think any sane person choose the former.
> 
> 
> The thing is, what is Rioter and what is Protestor?



This is an honest question. How do you know the police changed the rules to suit their operational requirements? I mean did you check or read their manuals before and after the shooting? Let me ask you another question. You said the police no longer need to clear for bystanders before taking action. But how would you do that in the real world, when the person in question is armed. Do you wait for him to kill why you tell the bystanders to clear off and then engage the enemy? This is a genuine question, I'm not disrespecting you by being condescending. Furthermore, I'm sure police forces around the world who are armed are taught to shoot if someone is trying to engage and steal there weapon. You would sue the police department which can then have a roll-on effect in changing the guideline for future references. 

I have a friend who is returning back to HK next month. He supports the protest movement but separates them into two groups. The rioters are those who use violence in the pursuit of achieving their goals, while the protestors are those who wish to change the system with peaceful means. Thus, I have used his terms to separate the two. I like Chinese people but only a fool would deny nothing is wrong with HK. A truthful person would admit HK has a housing crisis, the old people need more social care, and poverty is rising. Things need to change one way another and sweeping it under the carpet won't make them go away. Instead, this will create frustration and we can see the product today on the streets of HK. 



KungFuLee said:


> But in Poly U, those are different, if you are going by the definition of law, then I would say majority of those are just protestor, and maybe not more than 5% of the people in Poly U are rioter, which throw petrol bomb and stone back at Police. The majority of those are just protestor, on the other hand, they will be ALL arrested with the charge of Rioting regardless of their status of being a Rioter or Protestor. as @bbccdd1470 said, Police were asking for them to surrender, however, what he did not tell you is that they also block people from leaving the campus, because if they surrender, they would be arrested. It's not like you surrender at that point and amnesty applies and you go home. And that is before violence broke out as Police try to storm the building.
> 
> So in this case, would you surrender and get arrested and possible a beat down. Or you really believe everyone in there are rioter?



Were the vast majority of people armed in Poly U? I saw the pictures and videos circulating around the internet. Some of the students were armed with sticks, bows and Molotov cocktails. They weren't peaceful protestors they were rioters who were looking for trouble. Those who were protestors should have distanced themselves from the rioters. Why don't they come out and condemn them? We both know the person who questions them would get his head kicked in. Did the police give people the chance to leave? Your last point is easy to answer. If I was going to be beaten up, either way, I would choose the action that would give me a bigger chance of looking innocent and that is surrendering willingly to the police. At least the police would know my intention is not to fight. But like I have said before, the action of the HK police force in this incident was humiliating because this is being covered and broadcasted across the world.



KungFuLee said:


> T
> 
> As I represent another side of the issue, @bbccdd1470 also only represent one side of issue, the problem is, the Hong Kong it used to be is a land of law. And to reply to your second point, if it is with the old guideline (Which changed internally on 30, September, 2019) the Police Officer would be breaking the guideline.
> 
> First of all, the person is allegedly trying to steal the weapon from the officer, a claim lay with the officer who shot the person. We don't know if that is true. Secondly, Police equipment, especially their firearm are hard to steal, as you cannot pull it out straight from the holster, and my Police Friend also had explained to me, normally you won't shoot a person trying to steal your gun, because either you reach it BEFORE he grab the weapon, by which the threat does not materialize yet, or you reach it AFTER he grab the weapon, by which the threat would have already gone. If he is stealing your gun, you can't shoot him as both of you are struggling for it. The standard procedure when someone is trying to steal your weapon is to use baton or Capsicum Spray to subdue the person, not shoot him. Usually shooting related to stealing weapon is your partner who do the shooting, because then the perpetrator would have get hold of the officer weapon, and that is the point where the threat materialise. Not before nor After



There's nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion. I understand the people of HK want to live under a rule of law which has preserved their society for decades. Who has the authority to change these guidelines and what is the procedure to do so? But what your police friend said was a conjecture. Notice the word "normally". You do know when people struggle someone can still be shot in the process. I don't know the standard procedure in HK but even in the UK, any armed policeman who is about to be attacked can shoot the person. The scenario is completely different if the police are not armed with a gun. You know a gun isn't a toy, in the wrong hands it can be catastrophic.

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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> What a stupid assumption.
> 
> What DOES NOT happened to me does not mean it DOES NOT happened to anyone, I did not do anything wrong because I did not do anything, I went back to Hong Kong, celebrate my mother's birthday, and I come back, that's it.
> 
> There are DOCUMENTED incident that Police arrest Volunteer Medic and line them up on the street, which they wear yellow Fluoro shirt clearly identify them as Medic, then there are reporter both from domestic agency and international agency were shot at and detained, how about the old people they come down to the site and beg the Police to take a step back, do they break any law? unless you are claiming all these people.
> 
> These medic/nurse/doctor were accused of interference with first responder. Strange, because doctor, nurse and medic WERE the first responder.
> 
> View attachment 591159
> 
> How about these student, do they look like Rioter to you? Or they are just student going back to school?
> 
> View attachment 591161
> 
> 
> Or these?
> 
> 
> View attachment 591160
> 
> 
> 
> Again, Conspiracy is not going to affect me because I WAS THERE, you are not, you are, on the other hand, hide under your own discrepancy and conspiracy, let me ask you a question, were you in Hong Kong since May this year?


This is again your way to hide your conspiracy. Your "Does not mean" is also your assumption!
Rioters is rioter, you can hide that behind the term students. You said as if they are students so they are free to kill people, they are free to burn people alive.
Also you tried hard to back the rioters up with so many one-side pictures, you never show the picture they went home at the end. On other hand you totally ignored the pain of the man who was set fire by rioters, you turnt blind and totally ignored the tears of old people who built the city, the panic of people go to work whose rights were stolen by rioters, the destruction of the city caused by rioters, etc. By doing these, you already completely unveiled your demonic heart and you conspired with crime.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> This is again your way to hide your conspiracy. Your "Does not mean" is also your assumption!
> Rioters is rioter, you can hide that behind the term students. You said as if they are students so they are free to kill people, they are free to burn people alive.
> Also you tried hard to back the rioters up with so many one-side pictures, you never show the picture they went home at the end. On other hand you totally ignored the pain of the man who was set fire by rioters, you turnt blind and totally ignored the tears of old people who built the city, the panic of people go to work whose rights were stolen by rioters, the destruction of the city caused by rioters, etc. By doing these, you already completely unveiled your demonic heart and you conspired with crime.
> View attachment 591280



Well, I guess you need to have your argument check, cause your argument is all over the place.

I never said anything about anything to begin with, on the other hand you identify me as a rioter from your post "how do you sleep at night from killing an old man"

I never even back the rioter, if you read my post (quite clear you did not) I always maintain my stance that I DO NOT TOLERATE VIOLENT FROM EITHER SIDE. And if the people riot, they need to be prosecuted to the full extend of the law. 

Not all protester riot and burn down house, and kill old man, you apparently think all the people protest are rioter. 

As I said, conspiracy only work when you were not there and you have to depend on someone to tell you the story, it does not work when you were actually there, and again, were you in Hong Kong by any chance before you can comment on my "Demonic Heart"? 

What a stupid guy lol.


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## KungFuLee

Rasengan said:


> It may have been wrong and the public may have been justified to protest against such a bill. The Govt was defeated so people need to get over it and continue on with their lives. This movement is going beyond its mandate. In my opinion, they are exposing themselves (extremists). Stopping the bill was just an excuse. Their real intention is getting independence from China. I can be wrong in my analysis but this is the perception shown to me on TV.



as I said, it was water under a bridge, most people don't really understand why the bill is bad and it should be defeated, again, I have written a very detail analyst on the issue at the beginning of this thread, if you are interested, you can go there and read what I wrote. But I am not going to comment on the bill further. I don't think it will do any good to anybody here. 




> A person's view is shaped by there political biases. Some can view the incident as intentional while others can clearly understand it was a mistake. Why was the building targeted? Did the police spray paint because of a large number of protestors were hanging around the Mosque? As a Muslim, I would have been furious if the Govt didn't clean up the mess and apologize. But on both accounts, the Govt did reciprocate thus the incident must be forgotten and people's lives must continue. I want to see harmony in HK and not division. In my personal opinion, I regard the HK police incompetent in operating equipment, intelligence failure, the late response in stopping the rioters from damaging public property and in how they engage the public. Not everyone is a rioter, thus profiling innocent people is humiliating. Public profiling happened in London a couple of years ago and the end result wasn't good. It created resentment from the community toward the police.
> 
> It can't be valid unless you have evidence to show it was intentional. The protest movement itself has nothing to do with Muslims who are most likely not indigenous to the region. What does the HK police achieve in targeting Muslim's? The most sensible conclusion was the incompetence of the police.
> ​




Also, as I said, I am just saying these stuff do happens, and if I were to comment on the issue, it would just be my conjecture at best, I reserve my judgement on this issue and you should come to your own with the information that present to you. I will neither agree nor disagree with your thought on whether it is an accident or an intentional act.

But If I remember correctly, it happened in early October when the Police started targeting Mosque after the mask ban where numerous rumour going on protestor are applying for Islamic Group membership. I think if you have to related the two together, it would be a valid concern. 

Again, I am not saying this as evidence of the Police intentionally targeting the mosque, I am just saying this happens, whether or not it is intentional or accident. You need to come to your own conclusion.​


> I agree. There are bad apples in every society. I'm glad you detest violence from both sides. I know you are consistent with this view. HK needs dialogue and it needs unity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the current climate, people should always keep the residence of there family a secret. I'm glad you took this measure. I'm sorry to hear about your mother's horrible experience. No person should go through that. Although the riot police are outnumbered in some cases they should always choose the least dangerous action which can have an effect on the public. Firing tear gas can be extremely dangerous to old people especially. I know from my friend on extremely hot days when windows are shut it can become unbearable. So I can understand why the window was open even though the early warning was given. Your brother did the correct thing to cover her face with a wet towel and then call the ambulance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with what the protestors stand for. However, what those 5 protestors did was a noble action which puts a smile on my face. The world is a dark place, so much suffering, yet humanity can still exist within us. What I don't understand is the behavior of the police. HK is going through a turbulent period but under no circumstances does it compare to the problems of Pakistan back in 2011. Even during a war zone, our military and police would never stop citizens from seeking medical attention. I think you have every right to sue the police department in this incident. This is why I said before the HK police is incompetent. I don't know how I would have reacted to the police if I was in your situation. I most likely would have used violence. Nothing is more precious to an individual than their mother. We have a saying Islam"heaven lies under your mother's feet," so don't break her heart and always be a good son or daughter to her. I'm sorry to hear you went through that traumatic experience.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised listening to the comments of the doctor. Sometimes you need to use common sense and a touch of humanity to follow what's right rather than the rule book. Thank God, your mother was strong enough to pull through because in many cases brother old people would die from a heart attack induced by heatstroke. I can just imagine your mother telling them off in Cantonese. But they were respectful enough as they should be to listen to an elder person.



That is the core issue of the argument.

Numerous news report stated that the Police start targeting Medical Personnel, Fire Brigade and other First responder. The official reason is that they don't want protestor to pass as a Medic, Fire fighter and other first responder. But in reality how easy can one pass as a medic or fire fighter? I will say it's pretty easy to pass as press people or journalist, but to pass as a medic? I mean that is some specialist skill you don't know unless you were trained for it. And when you see an ambulance and 2 paramedic treating a 67 years old woman, how much of that can be fake? 

The things is protest or not, the job of the police is to maintain law and order, which we are focusing on the second part. But in most case reported, the Police is the one that disrupt the order. That is something I don't think we should see, even at the height of the protest, or riot, if you will. 

If the Police force themselves lacks discipline, then who maintain the order? 



> You showed some of the clip to a local NSW Police inspector and he told you this wasn't the standard procedure of the Riot Police Unit. If what you said was true and I have no reason to doubt your claim brother then we can only come up with one conclusion. The police training is inadequate. When you join any force common sense is drilled into you when you have such scenario's transpiring in the real world rather than practice drills. When you took this information to him did he suspend those involved?



It's not about scenario specific, but rather the formation and safety of the riot control officer. There are some core things that would never change when you are facing different situation. According to the Police Inspector, (Which I was doing a piece for Police action during the protest) formation have to be held all the time, if Police Officer started to break formation and chase down individual protestor, it would present a threat to themselves and to other officer. 

Think about it, if 2 or 3 policemen started to break formation and chase down 1 or 2 staggerers, and that staggerers lead the 2 or 3 officers into a alley where 10 rioter jump the officer, it would present a great threat to the officer, not just for the one who chase down the rioter, but also for others as the formation is now broken, you are no longer able to hold formation and fend off attack from multiple direction. This is very dangerous. 

It also show the Officers is not really competent on Riot Control, either they were trained for this type of job or that was not their intention to begin with. 



> This is an honest question. How do you know the police changed the rules to suit their operational requirements? I mean did you check or read their manuals before and after the shooting? Let me ask you another question. You said the police no longer need to clear for bystanders before taking action. But how would you do that in the real world, when the person in question is armed. Do you wait for him to kill why you tell the bystanders to clear off and then engage the enemy? This is a genuine question, I'm not disrespecting you by being condescending. Furthermore, I'm sure police forces around the world who are armed are taught to shoot if someone is trying to engage and steal there weapon. You would sue the police department which can then have a roll-on effect in changing the guideline for future references.
> 
> I have a friend who is returning back to HK next month. He supports the protest movement but separates them into two groups. The rioters are those who use violence in the pursuit of achieving their goals, while the protestors are those who wish to change the system with peaceful means. Thus, I have used his terms to separate the two. I like Chinese people but only a fool would deny nothing is wrong with HK. A truthful person would admit HK has a housing crisis, the old people need more social care, and poverty is rising. Things need to change one way another and sweeping it under the carpet won't make them go away. Instead, this will create frustration and we can see the product today on the streets of HK.



The internal memo (PSO-29-1) was published on 2011 after a police officer shot a homeless man to death. The memo stipulate the situation prescribed to an officer before deadly force can be applies. PSO-29-1 was in the public domain. And in that case, the officer was acquitted of all charges.

A leaked memo from the Police force have reported that the internal memo was amended on 30th September and which give the police more leeway to use deadly and non-deadly force. 

Either way the shooting in Tsuen Wan does not comply with the internal memo published in 2011.






> Were the vast majority of people armed in Poly U? I saw the pictures and videos circulating around the internet. Some of the students were armed with sticks, bows and Molotov cocktails. They weren't peaceful protestors they were rioters who were looking for trouble. Those who were protestors should have distanced themselves from the rioters. Why don't they come out and condemn them? We both know the person who questions them would get his head kicked in. Did the police give people the chance to leave? Your last point is easy to answer. If I was going to be beaten up, either way, I would choose the action that would give me a bigger chance of looking innocent and that is surrendering willingly to the police. At least the police would know my intention is not to fight. But like I have said before, the action of the HK police force in this incident was humiliating because this is being covered and broadcasted across the world.
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion. I understand the people of HK want to live under a rule of law which has preserved their society for decades. Who has the authority to change these guidelines and what is the procedure to do so? But what your police friend said was a conjecture. Notice the word "normally". You do know when people struggle someone can still be shot in the process. I don't know the standard procedure in HK but even in the UK, any armed policeman who is about to be attacked can shoot the person. The scenario is completely different if the police are not armed with a gun. You know a gun isn't a toy, in the wrong hands it can be catastrophic.



Not all of the people in Poly U were armed, in fact, even for known trouble maker (The protestor know who's and all the players) some of them weren't actaully armed. But there are indeed armed people in the campus. Most protestor group have already draw the line pretty clear to those who are look for trouble (What we refer to as cut carpet). Some are staying becuase they have no where better to go. And even majority of the protester think those people aren't helping with the cost.

The thing is, it's very hard to charge Protestor Rioting or Distrubance of Order. Because to do that, the Police need to have constant survillence on the protest and have record their everymove, and then you need to match the individual (their face, how they dress or even how they talk) before you can identify them as riot and make arrest, even so, it's harder to prosecute. Most of the people who were arrested would not have their charge stick. I think the conviction rate on these type of offence is generally less than 10% under previous record.

The Police know that, that is what account for the heavy hand tactics to both Rioter and normal Protestor. They see that (when they make arrest) is the only time they can make these people pay. 

As for the shooting and whether or not they are justified. That is quite objective question, simply because each people interpret threat differently, as with rioting charge, on the job shooting is notoriously hard to convict, a lot of issue at play here, as a law graduate (I graduate with Law degree back in 2016) people trained in Law knows there are one thing about the guideline and then there are another thing about how to interpret the guideline, so, what normally would do, or what other would do is actually a moot point, it's all about what that person do at that instant, and we don't know what actually transpire on the issue, most likely the officer who pull the trigger would not be criminal convicted, however, I would say the person who were shot have a good chance on winning a civil lawsuit.

But again, as I said, would you rather not get shot at all, or you get shot and you get compensated? That is the core to the issue here. Law suit in place so we can get something out of a consequence, but most of the time, we don't generally want things to happen and get to that point.


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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1198510009149116416Global Times✔@globaltimesnews

#HK district council elections see record turnout. A record 4.1 million HK residents, more than half of the population, registered to vote in the elections as social unrest engulfed the city. By 1:30 pm, 1.5 million people, or 37%, cast their vote. #DistrictCouncilElection #香港

3:53 PM - Nov 24, 2019


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## Vergennes

*Hong Kong elections: Pro-democracy group makes big gains*

Hong Kong's opposition pro-democracy movement has made strong gains in the Chinese territory's district council elections, local media reports say.

It took 196 of the first 236 seats declared, according to the South China Morning Post newspaper. Pro-Beijing candidates took just 28.

More than 2.9m people voted, a turnout of more than 71%, against 47% in 2015.

The election is being seen as a test of support for embattled Chief Executive Carrie Lam.

Pro-democracy protest groups want the vote to send a message to the Chinese government after five months of unrest and anti-government protests.

Pro-Beijing candidates had called on voters to support them in order to express frustration at the upheaval caused in recent months by continuous clashes between protesters and police.

A record 4.1 million people had registered to vote, or more than half the population of 7.4 million.

Hong Kong's district councils traditionally have some influence in choosing the city's chief executive.

Casting her vote, Ms Lam promised to listen "more intensively" to the views of district councils.

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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> Well, I guess you need to have your argument check, cause your argument is all over the place.
> 
> I never said anything about anything to begin with, on the other hand you identify me as a rioter from your post "how do you sleep at night from killing an old man"
> 
> I never even back the rioter, if you read my post (quite clear you did not) I always maintain my stance that I DO NOT TOLERATE VIOLENT FROM EITHER SIDE. And if the people riot, they need to be prosecuted to the full extend of the law.
> 
> Not all protester riot and burn down house, and kill old man, you apparently think all the people protest are rioter.
> 
> As I said, conspiracy only work when you were not there and you have to depend on someone to tell you the story, it does not work when you were actually there, and again, were you in Hong Kong by any chance before you can comment on my "Demonic Heart"?
> 
> What a stupid guy lol.


stupidity is like when you try to turn rioters into innocents, when you try to turn black into white. You always say 'both side' and dare not explicitly condemn the rioters, that is stupid. You assumpted not all protesters bad but who care, why not look into how they made society unrest, why you dare see they blocking street, why you dare not see they destroy public properties? Because you can back them up with what they did.
They violated law then they are criminals. Your argument is as if they are students, they are protesters then then are free to violate law and free to disrupt public. This is enough to say you took side and comprised with crime.


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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> stupidity is like when you try to turn rioters into innocents, when you try to turn black into white. You always say 'both side' and dare not explicitly condemn the rioters, that is stupid. You assumpted not all protesters bad but who care, why not look into how they made society unrest, why you dare see they blocking street, why you dare not see they destroy public properties? Because you can back them up with what they did.
> They violated law then they are criminals. Your argument is as if they are students, they are protesters then then are free to violate law and free to disrupt public. This is enough to say you took side and comprised with crime.



lol, the one being selective is you. 

I never explicitly condemn the rioter? Have you check my post to the other member @Rasengan just a few post back? read back to our communication and see if I have condemn the rioter, or ask him. Also, check back at the beginning of this thread, you did not see I condemn the Rioter for putting Hong Kong in a bad position?

What you are a typical bozo who when you see something you don't like and you "explicitly" attack that person without actually reading or listening to what he/she had said. People like you is the problem why Hong Kong is backward, and I sincerely hope you are one of those bozo Pro-Beijing douche but not a Hong Konger.


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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> lol, the one being selective is you.
> 
> I never explicitly condemn the rioter? Have you check my post to the other member @Rasengan just a few post back? read back to our communication and see if I have condemn the rioter, or ask him. Also, check back at the beginning of this thread, you did not see I condemn the Rioter for putting Hong Kong in a bad position?
> 
> What you are a typical bozo who when you see something you don't like and you "explicitly" attack that person without actually reading or listening to what he/she had said. People like you is the problem why Hong Kong is backward, and I sincerely hope you are one of those bozo Pro-Beijing douche but not a Hong Konger.


Oh, you explicitly condemned the rioter by saying "both sides" right? that is your explicity?


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## Rasengan

KungFuLee said:


> as I said, it was water under a bridge, most people don't really understand why the bill is bad and it should be defeated, again, I have written a very detail analyst on the issue at the beginning of this thread, if you are interested, you can go there and read what I wrote. But I am not going to comment on the bill further. I don't think it will do any good to anybody here.



Fair enough. But I hope people in HK understand this and move on with there lives.



KungFuLee said:


> Also, as I said, I am just saying these stuff do happens, and if I were to comment on the issue, it would just be my conjecture at best, I reserve my judgement on this issue and you should come to your own with the information that present to you. I will neither agree nor disagree with your thought on whether it is an accident or an intentional act.​



Good to hear. I am not a huge fan of conspiracy theories. I rather base my judgment on credible evidence which can't be disputed. I know what a dangerous rumor can have on a country. In Pakistan, back in 2007, the military conducted an operation on a Madrassa. It was widely circulated around FATA that thousands of students below the ages of 16 were massacred. This started the vicious terror campaign across Pakistan which thankfully has ended a few years ago.



KungFuLee said:


> But If I remember correctly, it happened in early October when the Police started targeting Mosque after the mask ban where numerous rumour going on protestor are applying for Islamic Group membership. I think if you have to related the two together, it would be a valid concern.
> 
> Again, I am not saying this as evidence of the Police intentionally targeting the mosque, I am just saying this happens, whether or not it is intentional or accident. You need to come to your own conclusion.​.



Why would the police ban the mask on the notion of a rumor stating these protestors were applying for an Islamic Group membership? Muslims don't wear a mask. Furthermore, using common sense I doubt the idea of thousands of people having a eureka moment and turning to Islam for their salvation. I would obviously welcome that with open arms, but the reality is different to what the heart wants.



KungFuLee said:


> That is the core issue of the argument.
> 
> Numerous news report stated that the Police start targeting Medical Personnel, Fire Brigade and other First responder. The official reason is that they don't want protestor to pass as a Medic, Fire fighter and other first responder. But in reality how easy can one pass as a medic or fire fighter? I will say it's pretty easy to pass as press people or journalist, but to pass as a medic? I mean that is some specialist skill you don't know unless you were trained for it. And when you see an ambulance and 2 paramedic treating a 67 years old woman, how much of that can be fake?
> 
> The things is protest or not, the job of the police is to maintain law and order, which we are focusing on the second part. But in most case reported, the Police is the one that disrupt the order. That is something I don't think we should see, even at the height of the protest, or riot, if you will.
> 
> If the Police force themselves lacks discipline, then who maintain the order?



@bbccdd1470 what's your opinion on the news report mentioned by @KungFuLee that the police are targeting Medical personal, Fire Brigade and other first responders. This policy if true is wrong in my opinion and it doesn't make sense. I have no problem with the idea if the police stop and require identification. But what I do have a major issue with is if they are interfering in the case of an emergency that is a matter of life and death. I think they should have let the two paramedics along with your mother go to receive treatment. The only valid excuse I can think of holding the other people in detention was if their database showed them, previous offenders of rioting in the streets. But I think it would be farfetched to assume in most cases the police are the main culprit of disrupting the order. 

The police themselves lack discipline because there training is inadequate to meet the current challenges facing HK. The last five months have been unprecedented in HK modern history. Thus, the police weren't prepared. But you must also accept that media outlet since the beginning has demonized the police.



KungFuLee said:


> It's not about scenario specific, but rather the formation and safety of the riot control officer. There are some core things that would never change when you are facing different situation. According to the Police Inspector, (Which I was doing a piece for Police action during the protest) formation have to be held all the time, if Police Officer started to break formation and chase down individual protestor, it would present a threat to themselves and to other officer.
> 
> Think about it, if 2 or 3 policemen started to break formation and chase down 1 or 2 staggerers, and that staggerers lead the 2 or 3 officers into a alley where 10 rioter jump the officer, it would present a great threat to the officer, not just for the one who chase down the rioter, but also for others as the formation is now broken, you are no longer able to hold formation and fend off attack from multiple direction. This is very dangerous. .



I don't disagree with you on this issue. But this further validates my argument that the HK police force is incompetent because they weren't trained properly. Nobody is born with discipline it has to be cultivated based upon your environment. Have you ever considered the psychological impact of these protestors on an individual policeman? Trust me when you come home from a long day's work where you saw your friend's getting busted and you turn on the TV hearing the anchor moan about your department and in the background your entire family is telling you to quit then like any other human being the policeman will crack. Many HK people speak and treat the police as robots where they can abuse them. If the police are breaking formation then what has your friend the inspector done to reverse this problem.





KungFuLee said:


> a
> 
> 
> The internal memo (PSO-29-1) was published on 2011 after a police officer shot a homeless man to death. The memo stipulate the situation prescribed to an officer before deadly force can be applies. PSO-29-1 was in the public domain. And in that case, the officer was acquitted of all charges.
> 
> A leaked memo from the Police force have reported that the internal memo was amended on 30th September and which give the police more leeway to use deadly and non-deadly force.
> 
> Either way the shooting in Tsuen Wan does not comply with the internal memo published in 2011.



When I have sufficient time I will read both of these internal memos and then compare them. But I still want to know who has the authority to change these guidelines. In the UK, for example, such radical changes will be discussed both in the House of Commons and the House of Lords.



KungFuLee said:


> Not all of the people in Poly U were armed, in fact, even for known trouble maker (The protestor know who's and all the players) some of them weren't actaully armed. But there are indeed armed people in the campus. Most protestor group have already draw the line pretty clear to those who are look for trouble (What we refer to as cut carpet). Some are staying becuase they have no where better to go. And even majority of the protester think those people aren't helping with the cost.



You have just stated quite clearly some protestors have stayed with the violent rioters because they have nowhere to do. I'm sorry to say I have no sympathy for these people. They may not have the guts to pick up the weapon but are instead cheerleading those who do. Common sense would dictate that as a protestor you would distance yourself from these people both in the case of safety and reputation of your movement to be known as peaceful. But instead, they watched too many Rambo movies and wanted to play the action hero. But you also reinforced my point earlier in which my own personal friend couldn't deny. If the majority don't like the troublemakers then why are they mixing with the? Why don't they have the guts to condemn them? We both know the answer to the question. The person who questions the rioters will get there head kicked in. So much for democracy and freedom of speech. 

But I will reiterate again. I don't think all protestors are bad and want to cause trouble. I will admit the trouble makers are a minority group. However, those who are silent when public property is damaged and when weapons are used against the police or public are just as bad in my opinion.



KungFuLee said:


> The thing is, it's very hard to charge Protestor Rioting or Distrubance of Order. Because to do that, the Police need to have constant survillence on the protest and have record their everymove, and then you need to match the individual (their face, how they dress or even how they talk) before you can identify them as riot and make arrest, even so, it's harder to prosecute. Most of the people who were arrested would not have their charge stick. I think the conviction rate on these type of offence is generally less than 10% under previous record.
> 
> The Police know that, that is what account for the heavy hand tactics to both Rioter and normal Protestor. They see that (when they make arrest) is the only time they can make these people pay.



Did the police give the protestors the chance to leave the university before they went in with their heavy-handed tactics? If the answer is "yes" and this was ignored then only one person can be blamed, the protestors who wanted to be Rambo. What you are advocating is not practical in the real world when you have such a large protest ongoing with some armed individuals in the crowd.


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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> Oh, you explicitly condemned the rioter by saying "both sides" right? that is your explicity?



You need to take an English test.

I have explicitly single out the rioter as to the problem happened in Hong Kong. I remember in one post, I said my brother just want to go to work as normal and thanks to the rioter, it is not going to happened.

But for you, Protestor = Rioter, same same. And your refuse to read people post as a whole before commenting on one's belief is just laughable, that is what and where you shoot yourself in your foot.


----------



## bbccdd1470

Rasengan said:


> Fair enough. But I hope people in HK understand this and move on with there lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Good to hear. I am not a huge fan of conspiracy theories. I rather base my judgment on credible evidence which can't be disputed. I know what a dangerous rumor can have on a country. In Pakistan, back in 2007, the military conducted an operation on a Madrassa. It was widely circulated around FATA that thousands of students below the ages of 16 were massacred. This started the vicious terror campaign across Pakistan which thankfully has ended a few years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the police ban the mask on the notion of a rumor stating these protestors were applying for an Islamic Group membership? Muslims don't wear a mask. Furthermore, using common sense I doubt the idea of thousands of people having a eureka moment and turning to Islam for their salvation. I would obviously welcome that with open arms, but the reality is different to what the heart wants.
> 
> 
> 
> @bbccdd1470 what's your opinion on the news report mentioned by @KungFuLee that the police are targeting Medical personal, Fire Brigade and other first responders. This policy if true is wrong in my opinion and it doesn't make sense. I have no problem with the idea if the police stop and require identification. But what I do have a major issue with is if they are interfering in the case of an emergency that is a matter of life and death. I think they should have let the two paramedics along with your mother go to receive treatment. The only valid excuse I can think of holding the other people in detention was if their database showed them, previous offenders of rioting in the streets. But I think it would be farfetched to assume in most cases the police are the main culprit of disrupting the order.
> 
> The police themselves lack discipline because there training is inadequate to meet the current challenges facing HK. The last five months have been unprecedented in HK modern history. Thus, the police weren't prepared. But you must also accept that media outlet since the beginning has demonized the police.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree with you on this issue. But this further validates my argument that the HK police force is incompetent because they weren't trained properly. Nobody is born with discipline it has to be cultivated based upon your environment. Have you ever considered the psychological impact of these protestors on an individual policeman? Trust me when you come home from a long day's work where you saw your friend's getting busted and you turn on the TV hearing the anchor moan about your department and in the background your entire family is telling you to quit then like any other human being the policeman will crack. Many HK people speak and treat the police as robots where they can abuse them. If the police are breaking formation then what has your friend the inspector done to reverse this problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I have sufficient time I will read both of these internal memos and then compare them. But I still want to know who has the authority to change these guidelines. In the UK, for example, such radical changes will be discussed both in the House of Commons and the House of Lords.
> 
> 
> 
> You have just stated quite clearly some protestors have stayed with the violent rioters because they have nowhere to do. I'm sorry to say I have no sympathy for these people. They may not have the guts to pick up the weapon but are instead cheerleading those who do. Common sense would dictate that as a protestor you would distance yourself from these people both in the case of safety and reputation of your movement to be known as peaceful. But instead, they watched too many Rambo movies and wanted to play the action hero. But you also reinforced my point earlier in which my own personal friend couldn't deny. If the majority don't like the troublemakers then why are they mixing with the? Why don't they have the guts to condemn them? We both know the answer to the question. The person who questions the rioters will get there head kicked in. So much for democracy and freedom of speech.
> 
> But I will reiterate again. I don't think all protestors are bad and want to cause trouble. I will admit the trouble makers are a minority group. However, those who are silent when public property is damaged and when weapons are used against the police or public are just as bad in my opinion.


I already put him in my ignored list, so I won't see any of his reply. But I haven't heard anything about targeting Medical personal, Fire Brigade and other first responders on the mainstream media, this is more likely one of their accusations which again they may just exaggerate normal police action when the police were evicting the place. You have friends from HK, you can ask them to have more information.

Thinking back, I remember there was a report about police's harassment on an reporter which turned out that reporter was holding a brick or something like that. This is the video




Another one was about fireman where the fire department came out and clarified the incident, I can't remember the detail but at the end there was no big deal (find the news here: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...g-protests-police-fire-services-release-joint). On the other hand, you can read this news. https://newsx.tv/2019/10/22/hk-fire...s-for-seriously-affecting-emergency-services/

Since you talked about the targeting Medical personal, Fire Brigade and other first responders on the mainstream media, I wonder if police merely target them as their professions, or those people committed crimes that the edited videos and pictures didn't show regardless of their profession. I have done some research on it. This is the news report there were fake reporters on the frontline already back on Sept.
https://www.chinadailyhk.com/articles/245/7/67/1567791878919.html
Those were fake reporter passes.






This is the news that reported a man was arrested and there was yellow vest, white helmet and a fake pass. You can look at the picture inside.
https://www.bastillepost.com/hongkong/article/5123408-【修例風波】青馬收費亭-警逐輛機場巴搜查?current_cat=1
Watch this video, a group of people(some wore yellow vests and white helmet) cornered the police officer when he was arresting a person.





This is the news report that "12 of purported medics had no first aid qualifications. Another three people wearing press vests were also unable to provide credentials", and explained why the police detained those reporters and first aiders in the campus. Read the news about the recent Poly U incident.
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/11/...edics-journalists-near-besieged-polyu-campus/

The point is there were some rioters who would dress like reporters or medic in order to get away with crimes. Another point is wearing yellow vest or while helmet doesn't mean you are immune to laws if you has committed crimes. The most important thing is that we (outsiders) never know the full story, except what they want to show us on the pictures or videos. Those people get arrested because they commit crime or their profession, we don't know. However, the court will decide if they are truly innocent. So why so quick to conclude that police is targeting certain professions with limited information. Also I could think of one thing that maybe what he considers some incidents as targeting reporters, but for me that may not be intentional but accidental.

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## KungFuLee

Rasengan said:


> Why would the police ban the mask on the notion of a rumor stating these protestors were applying for an Islamic Group membership? Muslims don't wear a mask. Furthermore, using common sense I doubt the idea of thousands of people having a eureka moment and turning to Islam for their salvation. I would obviously welcome that with open arms, but the reality is different to what the heart wants.



I am not sure, as I said, I am just saying this happens, online group have circulate form that join Islamic Council in Hong Kong. I can just verify this part. As for what they can do with such a membership or what they are going to do, I reserve my opinion as this would only be my conjecture.



> @bbccdd1470 what's your opinion on the news report mentioned by @KungFuLee that the police are targeting Medical personal, Fire Brigade and other first responders. This policy if true is wrong in my opinion and it doesn't make sense. I have no problem with the idea if the police stop and require identification. But what I do have a major issue with is if they are interfering in the case of an emergency that is a matter of life and death. I think they should have let the two paramedics along with your mother go to receive treatment. The only valid excuse I can think of holding the other people in detention was if their database showed them, previous offenders of rioting in the streets. But I think it would be farfetched to assume in most cases the police are the main culprit of disrupting the order.
> 
> The police themselves lack discipline because there training is inadequate to meet the current challenges facing HK. The last five months have been unprecedented in HK modern history. Thus, the police weren't prepared. But you must also accept that media outlet since the beginning has demonized the police.



He probably would ignore those incident, mostly because he is watching Pro-Chinese news network. If they are pro-China, they won't report those incident. And hence, he never see any.

I wasn't there for the most part, I have seen 3 photograph that the Police arrested medical personal on the spot.

Here are the one that very famously reported by major network.





This was shot in University Campus. I have saw another with a group of medic line up and sat on pavement in Central (so that would have been another incident) and finally I have saw a video of a medic (wearing white helmet with red cross on, but without vest, being beaten when he was helping a wounded protestor in a MTR car reported by Reuter . I can go back and look for the evidence you need if you want, but the other 2 happened quite a long time ago, it's kind of hard to look for it at an instant.

There were also Police Officer who venture into Hospital and arrest people. Which generally not done that way.


> I don't disagree with you on this issue. But this further validates my argument that the HK police force is incompetent because they weren't trained properly. Nobody is born with discipline it has to be cultivated based upon your environment. Have you ever considered the psychological impact of these protestors on an individual policeman? Trust me when you come home from a long day's work where you saw your friend's getting busted and you turn on the TV hearing the anchor moan about your department and in the background your entire family is telling you to quit then like any other human being the policeman will crack. Many HK people speak and treat the police as robots where they can abuse them. If the police are breaking formation then what has your friend the inspector done to reverse this problem.




I would want to believe it is the police force who lacked training, maybe in Riot Control front (because they are using frontline police officer now as riot control officer since there are not enough of them to go around) but the general training regime is quite adequate in term of procedural and method. 

Hence there are rumors (again, I cannot vouch for it validity) that some of the Police Officer is actually from Mainland China. The Hong Kong Police denied these rumour, however, there are quite a lot of "Black Police" who wear police equipment but without identification from the early stage of the protest. 

​


> When I have sufficient time I will read both of these internal memos and then compare them. But I still want to know who has the authority to change these guidelines. In the UK, for example, such radical changes will be discussed both in the House of Commons and the House of Lords.



In general, this is a Police Internal Order, so the Police Commissioner can change these guideline, however, generally, it would need to be seconded by Legislative Council and also need to published in the newspaper. The Police did not denied the change of internal procedure, they defended it by saying if they publish the change, that would hamper police enforcement.



> You have just stated quite clearly some protestors have stayed with the violent rioters because they have nowhere to do. I'm sorry to say I have no sympathy for these people. They may not have the guts to pick up the weapon but are instead cheerleading those who do. Common sense would dictate that as a protestor you would distance yourself from these people both in the case of safety and reputation of your movement to be known as peaceful. But instead, they watched too many Rambo movies and wanted to play the action hero. But you also reinforced my point earlier in which my own personal friend couldn't deny. If the majority don't like the troublemakers then why are they mixing with the? Why don't they have the guts to condemn them? We both know the answer to the question. The person who questions the rioters will get there head kicked in. So much for democracy and freedom of speech.
> 
> But I will reiterate again. I don't think all protestors are bad and want to cause trouble. I will admit the trouble makers are a minority group. However, those who are silent when public property is damaged and when weapons are used against the police or public are just as bad in my opinion.



As I said many time here, when a movement start gaining traction, it will attract bad apple. Not all protestor are bad, very obvious people who break open a store and steal everything inside have their ulterior motive, if we are just protesting peacefully, then we would most likely just boycott such a store.

Most protestor do separate themselves with the trouble maker. Depends on where you get your news from, if you are hearing it from the Pro-China outlet, you probably would never know about this. In fact, most trouble maker in these protest now are triad, which, according to some outlet, was hired by the Pro-Chinese regime to target the protester (The white shirt vs black shirt affair a few months ago) and the story is (I actually talked about this earlier, you can go back on my posting history) is that Pro-China regime hire these thug to beat the crap out of the protester, but either the triad increasingly ask for more money or the Pro-Chinese regime refuse to pay, now these trouble maker are on their own, they don't do it for Pro-China or Pro-Hong Kong force, rather they just want to make trouble.

There are several rumour that Triad (the trouble maker) killed the protestor who speak out against them and throw their body in the ocean and off building to make it look like suicide. I cannot attest to these rumour as I did not see any of this, but if you ask me, my personal view is that it make sense.



> Did the police give the protestors the chance to leave the university before they went in with their heavy-handed tactics? If the answer is "yes" and this was ignored then only one person can be blamed, the protestors who wanted to be Rambo. What you are advocating is not practical in the real world when you have such a large protest ongoing with some armed individuals in the crowd.



Well, the Police set a deadline for the protester to disperse, however, instead of granting amnesty (which usually do) the police arrested those people who surrender and charge them with rioting. So if you are a protestor, you know you are going to end up being charge anyway, what is the difference?


----------



## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> You need to take an English test.
> 
> I have explicitly single out the rioter as to the problem happened in Hong Kong. I remember in one post, I said my brother just want to go to work as normal and thanks to the rioter, it is not going to happened.
> 
> But for you, Protestor = Rioter, same same. And your refuse to read people post as a whole before commenting on one's belief is just laughable, that is what and where you shoot yourself in your foot.


Oh yeah, you explicitly condemned crime by saying 'both sides', and now excuse by denying to call them rioters. Because you comprised crime that is why you only see not all of criminals are bad. But if you are really fair to all, you see not all people are bad. You will see not all pro-beijing are bad either. You are not there yet and still try to protect criminals by using misleading tactic again and again.


----------



## Rasengan

KungFuLee said:


> I am not sure, as I said, I am just saying this happens, online group have circulate form that join Islamic Council in Hong Kong. I can just verify this part. As for what they can do with such a membership or what they are going to do, I reserve my opinion as this would only be my conjecture.



Fair enough. The solution to this answer will be time. I hope the Govt doesn't encourage the police to target any minority group.



KungFuLee said:


> He probably would ignore those incident, mostly because he is watching Pro-Chinese news network. If they are pro-China, they won't report those incident. And hence, he never see any.
> 
> I wasn't there for the most part, I have seen 3 photograph that the Police arrested medical personal on the spot.
> 
> Here are the one that very famously reported by major network.



What network do you watch to receive news on HK? Listening to your story and @bbccdd1470 has shown me both sides have legitimate grievances in how they have been treated. Can you really blame @bbccdd1470 on his reaction against the protestors? I mean his mother was nearly beaten for voicing her opinion. Chinese culture revolves around education and respecting your elders. But in his case, the protestors ignored their roots. But I can also understand why you have a negative reaction against the Govt. The action of the police could have resulted in the death of your mother which is just as bad. Your family was marginalized even though you had nothing to do with the protest in the area.

The pictures show medical personnel arrested. How can the police verify if they are legitimate medical staff? In London, the ambulance comes under the National Health Service. There command and control system is linked electronically to the London Metropolitan Police. This means both services can communicate with each other and it would be fairly easy to know legitimate personnel. This is my own conjecture which could be wrong. But there are two possible outcomes to this scenario. 1) They were fake medical personnel (highly unlikely). 2) They are medical personnel but were involved with the protest while they were off duty. I'm not endorsing the police action but I'm just providing a possible reason for there action.



KungFuLee said:


> View attachment 591487
> 
> This was shot in University Campus. I have saw another with a group of medic line up and sat on pavement in Central (so that would have been another incident) and finally I have saw a video of a medic (wearing white helmet with red cross on, but without vest, being beaten when he was helping a wounded protestor in a MTR car reported by Reuter . I can go back and look for the evidence you need if you want, but the other 2 happened quite a long time ago, it's kind of hard to look for it at an instant.
> 
> There were also Police Officer who venture into Hospital and arrest people. Which generally not done that way.



I agree the police shouldn't venture into the hospital and arrest people without treatment. When I hear stories such as the one described by you I can understand as an outsider why some HK people are apprehensive. But looking at my own country, I am quite familiar with how the media can twist facts to suit there narrative. I personally think there should be an investigation of the conduct of the police. The medical personnel has a good case to sue the police in the MTR incident.



KungFuLee said:


> I would want to believe it is the police force who lacked training, maybe in Riot Control front (because they are using frontline police officer now as riot control officer since there are not enough of them to go around) but the general training regime is quite adequate in term of procedural and method.
> 
> Hence there are rumors (again, I cannot vouch for it validity) that some of the Police Officer is actually from Mainland China. The Hong Kong Police denied these rumour, however, there are quite a lot of "Black Police" who wear police equipment but without identification from the early stage of the protest. ​



If the general training regime was quite adequate in terms of procedure and method then this issue wouldn't have arisen. Let me give you an example. When Pakistan was going through a tough period it was the FC (Frontier Corp separate branch from the military which was taking the full brunt in terms of casualties. There training, gear, and method were inadequate. This was drastically changed and the results were obvious when the terrorists were annihilated and the Frontier Corp was engaging properly with the public without marginalizing them. The same thing must happen in HK. You can never achieve progress unless you admit your problems.

I have heard of this rumor and to be honest with you I don't regard this as a conspiracy theory. But China as a state will naturally protect its interests so I can't fault them for doing so. But this action is incorrect. I admire China for many different reasons. In fact, some of my best friends who I have known for 15 years come from mainland China. But my one major criticism of the Govt is their failure to project a soft image globally. They need to win the hearts and minds of the HK people. They can only do this by reassuring them instead of increasing their apprehension. What is the mechanism of prosecuting a Black policeman if they stepped over their boundary and killed someone without following protocol. I can understand this is a major concern for HK people. But you must also understand the HK police is being overwhelmed so naturally they need help from mainland China.



KungFuLee said:


> In general, this is a Police Internal Order, so the Police Commissioner can change these guideline, however, generally, it would need to be seconded by Legislative Council and also need to published in the newspaper. The Police did not denied the change of internal procedure, they defended it by saying if they publish the change, that would hamper police enforcement.



I fail to understand how the publication of the change would hamper police enforcement. I would assume this would have strengthened there procedure on the ground when engaging the public. When they did change the internal procedure did they get a green signal from the Legislative Council and publish the new conduct in the newspaper? If this action was ignored does that not give reasonable ground for the public (person who was shot) to sue the police in a court of law? I know the protestors have put forward 5 demands. Thus, are they demanding reforms in the police department?



KungFuLee said:


> Well, the Police set a deadline for the protester to disperse, however, instead of granting amnesty (which usually do) the police arrested those people who surrender and charge them with rioting. So if you are a protestor, you know you are going to end up being charge anyway, what is the difference?



There is a big difference. By surrendering to the police peacefully they aren't tarnishing the reputation of the movement. The police and the law would have shown them leniency. Instead, they wanted to become Rambo with a bow behind their backs. The police must have arrested them because they didn't surrender before the deadline.
Two wrongs don't make a right. If you believe in democracy and how China is wrong then at least practice what you preach (not you) by protesting peacefully.

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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> Oh yeah, you explicitly condemned crime by saying 'both sides', and now excuse by denying to call them rioters. Because you comprised crime that is why you only see not all of criminals are bad. But if you are really fair to all, you see not all people are bad. You will see not all pro-beijing are bad either. You are not there yet and still try to protect criminals by using misleading tactic again and again.



First of all, I never said "All Pro-Beijing" are bad people. If you can find in anywhere, in any shape or form that I said that, I gladly eat my own word and apologise. But on the other hand, you see all protestor as bad people, and we should have no right to protest. 

Second of all, I had condemn many time SPECIFICALLY, from either side for their violence, I am a trained lawyer, I don't condone with any criminal activities, I don't even agree with all 5 request set forth for the protester. 

And do tell me how I "protect" criminal, actually, you accuse me as one of the criminal without any proof by saying "Why I wasn't arrested" and "How I sleep at night after killing an old man" You need to put up or shut up. 

Also, it's because people like you give pro-Beijing people a bad name. You don't digest what other people think, you only have one thought, that is Beijing is good, no matter what. And by doing so, you ignore basically what other people say and need. It's cool for you because you don't live in Hong Kong (I even doubt you live in China) I do, after next year, I need to go back to Hong Kong and start my own business, what you think may be fun and game to you, for me, it's reality.


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## Rasengan

bbccdd1470 said:


> I already put him in my ignored list, so I won't see any of his reply. But I haven't heard anything about targeting Medical personal, Fire Brigade and other first responders on the mainstream media, this is more likely one of their accusations which again they may just exaggerate normal police action when the police were evicting the place. You have friends from HK, you can ask them to have more information.



Brother, you shouldn't put him in your ignore lists. If you read my previous post I specifically stated how it took me a few months to change the opinion of my friend. You must do the same. I understand this is hard for you brother due to your personal experience but you must strong for HK and its people. 

@KungFuLee has told me of the story relating to his mother and how the police detained them and the ambulance for several hours before releasing them to go to the hospital. He also attached a picture where a few medical personnel were arrested without reason and were forced to sit on the floor. He also explained how in another incident the police were beating a medical staff for helping a wounded protestor in an MTR car. His view is strong on this issue because there is a rumor going inside HK that the Black police coming from China is responsible for this breach of conduct. I personally don't believe the HK police are purposely targeting the Fire Brigade or other first responders. In my opinion, they are so overwhelmed that they require help from Mainland China. Read my post in response to him. I have asked many questions that put a question mark on these accusations. ​


grandmaster said:


> Oh yeah, you explicitly condemned crime by saying 'both sides', and now excuse by denying to call them rioters. Because you comprised crime that is why you only see not all of criminals are bad. But if you are really fair to all, you see not all people are bad. You will see not all pro-beijing are bad either. You are not there yet and still try to protect criminals by using misleading tactic again and again.



@KungFuLee has been consistent in condemning violence. I might not agree with him on every issue but he wants peaceful protests which should be the right of every HK person. A person who practices Law in HK would be the last person to promote violence.

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## KungFuLee

Rasengan said:


> Fair enough. The solution to this answer will be time. I hope the Govt doesn't encourage the police to target any minority group.
> 
> 
> 
> What network do you watch to receive news on HK? Listening to your story and @bbccdd1470 has shown me both sides have legitimate grievances in how they have been treated. Can you really blame @bbccdd1470 on his reaction against the protestors? I mean his mother was nearly beaten for voicing her opinion. Chinese culture revolves around education and respecting your elders. But in his case, the protestors ignored their roots. But I can also understand why you have a negative reaction against the Govt. The action of the police could have resulted in the death of your mother which is just as bad. Your family was marginalized even though you had nothing to do with the protest in the area.



I read news from all over, Apple Daily, Ming Bao, Cable News Network and even TVB (Which is very pro-China these days)

I regret that someone is threaten @bbccdd1470 mother, but you also need to know, at the same time, people threaten protestor, their live and their family member, just a few days ago, there exist this militia called "Good Hong Kong Citizens Group" wearing some kind of uniform and beat protestor up in the street and expose family member detail of protestor and threat the live of their family (That's why I don't give any personal information here)

You need to understand, these happens a lot in Hong Kong these day, not just to pro-Chinese people and not just to @bbccdd1470.



> The pictures show medical personnel arrested. How can the police verify if they are legitimate medical staff? In London, the ambulance comes under the National Health Service. There command and control system is linked electronically to the London Metropolitan Police. This means both services can communicate with each other and it would be fairly easy to know legitimate personnel. This is my own conjecture which could be wrong. But there are two possible outcomes to this scenario. 1) They were fake medical personnel (highly unlikely). 2) They are medical personnel but were involved with the protest while they were off duty. I'm not endorsing the police action but I'm just providing a possible reason for there action.



In Hong Kong, medical personal carry some sort of official ID (I know for a fact Paramedic were issue with Medical Council ID from a friend who work as a paramedic, not sure about nurse and doctors, I can ask my friend but that would be hearsay) So, when you are on/off duty, you carry those ID so you can identify yourself as a medical professional. So even when you are off duty and off uniform, you can ID yourself as Medical Personnel and help live saving, and that is done for insurance purposed because business maybe liable to its customer if they are injured and some unknown people without any ID volunteer to help but just got worse (It's something called Duty of Care) so Medical Personal carries ID with their HKID Card all the time.

On a normal situation, you only need to check both Medical Council ID against your HKID, and you will be verify as a Medical Personnel, it wouldn't take 1 minutes (I mean how fast can you pull 2 ID from your wallet?) so for the Police to detain Medical Personnel like that is highly unusual.

And to answer your question.
1.) They are Medical Personnel, the union have confirmed. In any case, you don't need to detain them like this to find out. This is highly demoralized as a society.
2.) They are involved in the protest, their involvement are there to treat any injury and provide first hand medical care to people. This has been done since the protest heat up, the medical personnel know better to stay neutral. Read below to see how they are involved.





> I agree the police shouldn't venture into the hospital and arrest people without treatment. When I hear stories such as the one described by you I can understand as an outsider why some HK people are apprehensive. But looking at my own country, I am quite familiar with how the media can twist facts to suit there narrative. I personally think there should be an investigation of the conduct of the police. The medical personnel has a good case to sue the police in the MTR incident.



One of the complaint point by international organisation (Amnesty International, International Red Cross, even Doctors from Doctors without Border) are that the Police delay medical treatment and sometime uses Medical Treatment as a bait and withhold it in order to force the arrested subject to confess without present of Lawyers. In the Police Service Charter, Medical care are supposed to deliver promptly and without prejudice, but for the case that was interviewed, Police delay medical request and only give it to the arrestee after they have been booked (Which mean a statement taken, fingerprinted, processed) Which this mean there are delay up to 5 hours depends on the activities of any given Police Station.




> If the general training regime was quite adequate in terms of procedure and method then this issue wouldn't have arisen. Let me give you an example. When Pakistan was going through a tough period it was the FC (Frontier Corp separate branch from the military which was taking the full brunt in terms of casualties. There training, gear, and method were inadequate. This was drastically changed and the results were obvious when the terrorists were annihilated and the Frontier Corp was engaging properly with the public without marginalizing them. The same thing must happen in HK. You can never achieve progress unless you admit your problems.
> 
> I have heard of this rumor and to be honest with you I don't regard this as a conspiracy theory. But China as a state will naturally protect its interests so I can't fault them for doing so. But this action is incorrect. I admire China for many different reasons. In fact, some of my best friends who I have known for 15 years come from mainland China. But my one major criticism of the Govt is their failure to project a soft image globally. They need to win the hearts and minds of the HK people. They can only do this by reassuring them instead of increasing their apprehension. What is the mechanism of prosecuting a Black policeman if they stepped over their boundary and killed someone without following protocol. I can understand this is a major concern for HK people. But you must also understand the HK police is being overwhelmed so naturally they need help from mainland China.



I don't think we can compare Hong Kong to Pakistan, or even Hong Kong to China. I mean, Pakistan is at war constantly with multiple group and there are group that destabilize Pakistan from within as well, so I would say it's logical to have extra measure to ensure its citizens safety.

On the other hand, Hong Kong does not generally see violence, we are living in a very peaceful environment prior to this, and the money and resource we devoted to train our police force is top notch, if not world top 10. And the integrity of independent policing is what make the system work. And this is the same system we have been operating on and supposed to be working until 2047, but if this integrity started to damage like this, and we are not even half way mark to 2047, how are we supposed to maintain the integrity of our society?

As I said before, the core of these problem right now is the Chinese Government intervening into public affair that under Basic Law, it would have been our own charter, people in Hong Kong is not asking for China to give us something extra, or more autonomous, but rather, things that has been going for a long time and was promised not to change for another 27 years that is what people is protesting about.

As for the Black Police, there are absolutely no action on them, that is the reason why we want to have an independent Police Inquiry, but the government is not giving us that. In places like UK or Australia, they would have formed a Royal Commission already.



> I fail to understand how the publication of the change would hamper police enforcement. I would assume this would have strengthened there procedure on the ground when engaging the public. When they did change the internal procedure did they get a green signal from the Legislative Council and publish the new conduct in the newspaper? If this action was ignored does that not give reasonable ground for the public (person who was shot) to sue the police in a court of law? I know the protestors have put forward 5 demands. Thus, are they demanding reforms in the police department?



I am not sure, but that is the reason they give when the media ask the Police why they did not make public of those change. That is what they said "So it would not hamper Police operation"

I don't have any detail on the change beside when did they change it, but I doubt they passed thru the Legco. Since they are having a election, which mean there should be no motion hearing. And since I did not hear about any emergency session, so I would assume that change was done unliterally. But don't quote me on that as that is my own conjecture.

As far as I know the protestor did not demand a reform of Police department. I think the 5 demands are

1.) Withdraw the Bill (Which is done)
2.) Carrie Lam Resign
3.) Independent Police Inquiry
4.) Amnesty to all Protestor that is arrested (Fat chance....as I said, throw the book at all trouble maker)
5.) General Election/Universal Suffrage

Of the 5 demands, I only support 1 to 3.




> There is a big difference. By surrendering to the police peacefully they aren't tarnishing the reputation of the movement. The police and the law would have shown them leniency. Instead, they wanted to become Rambo with a bow behind their backs. The police must have arrested them because they didn't surrender before the deadline.
> Two wrongs don't make a right. If you believe in democracy and how China is wrong then at least practice what you preach (not you) by protesting peacefully.



You would be right if they have already done something in Poly U when the Police call for their surrender, but when they call for their surrender, it was at the very beginning and before any clashes with the Police. So if there were no clashes, then how one can break the rules of Rioting?

I don't really think you understand the whole event (at least not from @bbccdd1470 perspective and how he tells you.

The Police arrive at PolyU at around 11am and by 9pm, the Police declare everyone inside or prepare to go inside to aid the protestor will be arrested for Rioting, at the same time, the Police offer to anyone who wish to peaceful surrender to them at this point to leave via an exit (not remember which one on top of my head) So, numerous teaching staff, media, medic, by-stander try to leave via this exit and once they do, the Police Ambush them and take them down (I think take them down is a kind word, more like a beat down) That is also where the Police arrested those Medical personnel you saw on the picture before.

Note that those people are probably just caught in the cross fired by an earlier incident (I personally know some teaching staff that was just there to try to talk some sense to the protestor) so these people are mostly didn't do anything, but they got taken down and arrested. The Protestor saw that and if that was you, and you saw your teacher who just come down to the campus and talk you out of retaliating got arrested like this, would you surrender to the Police?

I mean, the first instant when they offer people to walk off, that should be consequence free as that was at the beginning of the siege. But that is not the case, and on the contrary, people done that have been taking down without prejudice. So you tell me what people should think about that?



Rasengan said:


> Brother, you shouldn't put him in your ignore lists. If you read my previous post I specifically stated how it took me a few months to change the opinion of my friend. You must do the same. I understand this is hard for you brother due to your personal experience but you must strong for HK and its people.
> 
> @KungFuLee has told me of the story relating to his mother and how the police detained them and the ambulance for several hours before releasing them to go to the hospital. He also attached a picture where a few medical personnel were arrested without reason and were forced to sit on the floor. He also explained how in another incident the police were beating a medical staff for helping a wounded protestor in an MTR car. His view is strong on this issue because there is a rumor going inside HK that the Black police coming from China is responsible for this breach of conduct. I personally don't believe the HK police are purposely targeting the Fire Brigade or other first responders. In my opinion, they are so overwhelmed that they require help from Mainland China. Read my post in response to him. I have asked many questions that
> put a question mark on these accusations. ​
> 
> 
> @KungFuLee has been consistent in condemning violence. I might not agree with him on every issue but he wants peaceful protests which should be the right of every HK person. A person who practices Law in HK would be the last person to promote violence.



I welcome questions, in fact, I am looking for answer myself, I cannot be at all the front at the same time. So what I say only applies to what my perception of these affair is. I only come here to report what I see, and maybe offer some insight as to what is really going on. I always put my fact (fact that I know myself) and my conjecture separated. 

On the other hand, I have no quell on people try to ignore me, @bbccdd1470 he is quite obviously have a different stance than me on the issue, he put me on an ignore list mostly because he also probably ignore all pro-Hong Kong news outlet. I mean that is up to him, if he want to be just informed by the Pro-China media, that is his choosing, I choose a more well rounded approach. But at the end of the day, we are just 2 side of the same coin, and in the end, his side would probably win, well, because Hong Kong is indeed part of China. He don't care about the stuff that I care and vice versa, that basically summed up the whole sentiment in Hong Kong.

There are worst case those which is the parent are inline with Pro-China stance and their son/daughter goes to demonstrate, it's not hard at all to find family that don't speak to each other because they are on different stance. If a family can be like this, what say it can't happen to 2 strangers live at the same place?

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## Goku

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1198967071557570560


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## katarabhumi

KungFuLee said:


> Also, in case you are wondering, HK police has started targeting Muslim in Hong Kong, a street rumour says that many of the protestor are planning to convert to Muslim so they can wear head scarf and mask as a religious ritual, in many forum, Facebook group there are application to join Mosque circulating in those area. And the Police did target Hong Kong Mosque a think a few months ago where they use water canon with paint and pepper spray on the front gate of a mosque, IIRC the Police said they are mistargeted but well, what I heard is, it happened multiple time.



Ahh, so that's why...

Few days ago an Indonesian muslim preacher was denied entry into HK without a clear reason. He was the only one from his group that was denied, while his family and manager were accepted entry.

He was invited by Indonesia community in HK and he has all the legal documents required but even after it's all been confirmed as true, HK authority still said NO to him without any reason. Since he was somewhat a celebrity over here it became news.

That guy is harmless actually from what I know (his preaching) but I understand it's the right of HK authorities to accept or refuse whoever. It's maybe for the best.

Best wishes for HK people, hope things get back to normal soon.

.


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## bbccdd1470

Rasengan said:


> Brother, you shouldn't put him in your ignore lists. If you read my previous post I specifically stated how it took me a few months to change the opinion of my friend. You must do the same. I understand this is hard for you brother due to your personal experience but you must strong for HK and its people.
> 
> @KungFuLee has told me of the story relating to his mother and how the police detained them and the ambulance for several hours before releasing them to go to the hospital. He also attached a picture where a few medical personnel were arrested without reason and were forced to sit on the floor. He also explained how in another incident the police were beating a medical staff for helping a wounded protestor in an MTR car. His view is strong on this issue because there is a rumor going inside HK that the Black police coming from China is responsible for this breach of conduct. I personally don't believe the HK police are purposely targeting the Fire Brigade or other first responders. In my opinion, they are so overwhelmed that they require help from Mainland China. Read my post in response to him. I have asked many questions that
> put a question mark on these accusations. ​
> 
> 
> @KungFuLee has been consistent in condemning violence. I might not agree with him on every issue but he wants peaceful protests which should be the right of every HK person. A person who practices Law in HK would be the last person to promote violence.


Here is the link shows the timeline of what happened on 17th November, but in Chinese (you may have to do some google translate)
https://news.mingpao.com/ins/港聞/article/20191117/s00001/1573958031250/【1117-理大外】記協-除證明記者身分-所有離開理大者都會被捕
Notice that only started at 16:13, this was the first time the police had considered the violence in Poly U as riot, and people inside the PolyU who didn't leave and provide assistance could be charge as rioting. And again the same statement at 17:56 and 20:16 etc. The point is after the police had considered the incident as riot, those people were still inside the campus could be charge as rioting even they tried to leave after that point, but before that people were free to go, where they had the whole morning and afternoon until 16:13.

The following link shows a police statement around noon that asked people to leave the campus and didn't say anything about people who leave the campus would be arrested as rioting. (again Sorry google translate)
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/k2/1492729-20191117.htm?spTabChangeable=0

I tried what you suggested but I'm too tired on this kind of stuffs. You have to judge for yourself. You do know I have family that is on their side, and their statements or arguments are mostly the same, where I hear that everyday. If he really think the other side don't know or ignore their argument, I guess this is up to him. The thing is I do it for my own sake since sometime people have to take some breaks from the real life.

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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...ina-leaders-routed-polls-191125161445516.html


All eyes are on how Hong Kong's pro-Beijing authorities respond to their stunning defeat after nearly three million voters delivered a landslide election victory to pro-democracy opposition parties.


Democratic candidates won 86 percent of the 452 seats in district council elections in the semi-autonomous city on Sunday - a vote viewed as a test for the Hong Kong leadership after half a year of often-violent demonstrations against Beijing's influence.

"The pressure on the government is tremendous and public opinion unambiguous," Ma Ngok, a political scientist at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, told Al Jazeera.

"*The government had counted on a reversal of public opinion that didn't come*. So, the momentum of the protest movement will no doubt continue," he said.

Since early June, Hong Kong has been rocked by protests sparked by a bill that would have allowed people to be extradited to mainland China to stand trial.

Although the contentious bill was formally withdrawn last month, the protesters continue to demand an independent inquiry into alleged police brutality, amnesty for more than 1,000 people charged with offences during the demonstrations, and full democracy to elect the legislature and chief executive.

Hong Kong's embattled Chief Executive Carrie Lam has not made a public appearance since casting her vote on Sunday, but issued a statement after the election results were announced on Monday.

"The government will listen to the opinions of members of the public humbly and seriously reflect," said Lam.

Starry Lee, leader of the biggest pro-Beijing party who narrowly defeated her challenger, also called for reflection by the city's administration.

"We hope the government can deeply reflect upon and examine its own shortcomings in handling the bill and restoring order to society," Lee said.

*Landslide democrat victory *
All told, the pan-democratic camp and its allies dominated 17 of the 18 districts up for election and swept up nearly 400 of the 452 seats, an almost 30 percent rise since the 2014 vote.

The *voter turnout of 71 percent - a record* for any election since the territory returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997 - dealt a blow to the government, not the least because it had failed to quell the protests by force.

"The overwhelming majority that voted against the government shatters its claim to any legitimacy," Ma said.

In Hong Kong, district councils evolved from colonial-era local advisory boards to introduce elected representatives to the legislature. They are the only elections in the city that offer any form of truly democratic rule.

The defeat of its incumbents will cost pro-Beijing parties several legislative seats in next year's election.

Given district councillors account for 10 percent of the total 1,200 electors for the chief executive, the democratic sweep gives the camp a little more sway in an electorate still stacked with mostly pro-Beijing loyalists.

More importantly, however, Sunday's election was heralded as the closest thing to a referendum because it tapped into the constituency on the grassroots level.

While past council elections were mostly about hyper-local issues, many candidates this year openly campaigned over the issues being raised by the protesters - and won.

Riding the momentum of their triumph, about 100 newly-elected district councillors - to be sworn in on New Year's Day - descended on the city's Polytechnic University, where a few dozen protesters faced a police lockdown for eight days.

*'Lasting effect'*
Galvanised by months of protests, the number of registered voters aged between 18 and 35 in Hong Kong spiked by more than 12 percent, with a record 4.1 million people now on the electoral rolls.

The election also saw many young faces joining the fray, casting aside the belief popular among the older generation that politics is an unworthy and even corrupt pursuit. Their victory disrupts district councils long dominated by local figureheads and old-time politicians.

The last time the democrats performed well was in 2003 when they rode the public discontent over a controversial sedition bill. But the tide turned in the next two elections.

"This time it will have a more lasting effect given the sheer anger towards the government," political commentator Ching Cheong told Al Jazeera.

"Back then, the government was less hell-bent on going against public opinion. Now, their arrogance of power clearly shows."

The landslide victory even took the winning democrats by surprise.

Vows mere made in online forums about running naked in the park
and plunging into the harbour if certain incumbents lost. Political observers had also predicted a democratic takeover of only half the seats.

"We were surprised by the turnout and the margin," said Debby Chan, 29, one of the winning candidates from a suburban district long dominated by conservatives and never won by the democrats.

Meanwhile, China has been guarded in its response.

"China's central government resolutely supports Chief Executive Carrie Lam's leadership," said the country's foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang at a press briefing.

Ching, however, said Beijing will read the election results as an act of "blatant resistance" against the Hong Kong government.

"They will only solidify their mistrust of Hong Kong," he said.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well the chances of Taiwan agreeing to a smooth unification transition has now gone out the window if they can’t even handle Hong Kong.

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## Nan Yang

KungFuLee said:


> I am not sure, as I said, I am just saying this happens, online group have circulate form that join Islamic Council in Hong Kong. I can just verify this part. As for what they can do with such a membership or what they are going to do, I reserve my opinion as this would only be my conjecture.
> 
> 
> 
> He probably would ignore those incident, mostly because he is watching Pro-Chinese news network. If they are pro-China, they won't report those incident. And hence, he never see any.
> 
> I wasn't there for the most part, I have seen 3 photograph that the Police arrested medical personal on the spot.
> 
> Here are the one that very famously reported by major network.
> 
> View attachment 591487
> 
> This was shot in University Campus. I have saw another with a group of medic line up and sat on pavement in Central (so that would have been another incident) and finally I have saw a video of a medic (wearing white helmet with red cross on, but without vest, being beaten when he was helping a wounded protestor in a MTR car reported by Reuter . I can go back and look for the evidence you need if you want, but the other 2 happened quite a long time ago, it's kind of hard to look for it at an instant.
> 
> There were also Police Officer who venture into Hospital and arrest people. Which generally not done that way.
> 
> 
> 
> I would want to believe it is the police force who lacked training, maybe in Riot Control front (because they are using frontline police officer now as riot control officer since there are not enough of them to go around) but the general training regime is quite adequate in term of procedural and method.
> 
> Hence there are rumors (again, I cannot vouch for it validity) that some of the Police Officer is actually from Mainland China. The Hong Kong Police denied these rumour, however, there are quite a lot of "Black Police" who wear police equipment but without identification from the early stage of the protest.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> In general, this is a Police Internal Order, so the Police Commissioner can change these guideline, however, generally, it would need to be seconded by Legislative Council and also need to published in the newspaper. The Police did not denied the change of internal procedure, they defended it by saying if they publish the change, that would hamper police enforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said many time here, when a movement start gaining traction, it will attract bad apple. Not all protestor are bad, very obvious people who break open a store and steal everything inside have their ulterior motive, if we are just protesting peacefully, then we would most likely just boycott such a store.
> 
> Most protestor do separate themselves with the trouble maker. Depends on where you get your news from, if you are hearing it from the Pro-China outlet, you probably would never know about this. In fact, most trouble maker in these protest now are triad, which, according to some outlet, was hired by the Pro-Chinese regime to target the protester (The white shirt vs black shirt affair a few months ago) and the story is (I actually talked about this earlier, you can go back on my posting history) is that Pro-China regime hire these thug to beat the crap out of the protester, but either the triad increasingly ask for more money or the Pro-Chinese regime refuse to pay, now these trouble maker are on their own, they don't do it for Pro-China or Pro-Hong Kong force, rather they just want to make trouble.
> 
> There are several rumour that Triad (the trouble maker) killed the protestor who speak out against them and throw their body in the ocean and off building to make it look like suicide. I cannot attest to these rumour as I did not see any of this, but if you ask me, my personal view is that it make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the Police set a deadline for the protester to disperse, however, instead of granting amnesty (which usually do) the police arrested those people who surrender and charge them with rioting. So if you are a protestor, you know you are going to end up being charge anyway, what is the difference?


Which police force in this world would you think would be a good example for you? 
Just asking.


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## Kathin_Singh

In a rebuke to Beijing, pro-democracy candidates captured 389 of 452 elected seats, far more than they had ever won. Beijing’s allies held just 58 seats, down from 300. It was a strong message from Hong Kong voters, with record turnout of 71 percent.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Kathin_Singh said:


> In a rebuke to Beijing, pro-democracy candidates captured 389 of 452 elected seats, far more than they had ever won. Beijing’s allies held just 58 seats, down from 300. It was a strong message from Hong Kong voters, with record turnout of 71 percent.



Hey I have been hearing on this forum that these protestors are a small minority and the majority think they are a bunch of young kooks..:have I been lied to or something?

I suppose this is just some CIA coup or something.

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## KungFuLee

Nan Yang said:


> Which police force in this world would you think would be a good example for you?
> Just asking.



for what?


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## Uguduwa

This shows that CCP needs to reform. I feel like CCP is being run by a bunch of old school men who have no clue about the needs of a modern population. As China becomes richer and people begin to have comfortable standards of living, mainlanders too will eventually demand greater political representation. Then it's inconceivable for CCP to crackdown on everyone and brand anyone with a different political view as "enemy of the state". In my opinion, CCP model of governance fits best in a developing country where heavy handed approach is essential but in the long term as standards of living rises, it will be a cause for instability as educated people will not be happy being bossed around.


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## DoTell

The problem with election is the masses is stupid, unstable. Opinions from the majority don’t necessarily mean the best opinions. That’s why the biggest shithole, joke of democracy, a. k. a. India has existed for over half a century. Honk Kong can turn itself into Egypt, Libya, burn itself down. But rest assured, there will be no Arab Spring in China.

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Phuk, the way pro democracy guys of hongkong wreaked pro china candidates is unbelievable...


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## Nan Yang

Uguduwa said:


> This shows that CCP needs to reform. I feel like CCP is being run by a bunch of old school men who have no clue about the needs of a modern population. As China becomes richer and people begin to have comfortable standards of living, mainlanders too will eventually demand greater political representation. Then it's inconceivable for CCP to crackdown on everyone and brand anyone with a different political view as "enemy of the state". In my opinion, CCP model of governance fits best in a developing country where heavy handed approach is essential but in the long term as standards of living rises, it will be a cause for instability as educated people will not be happy being bossed around.


Errrr. No. China is doing very well without chaotic multi party election.



KungFuLee said:


> for what?


For you.


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## PurpleButcher

When I see people in these rich cities/countries protesting, my heart says "sukh ka dukh" (i.e., they are suffering from pain of peace)

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## KungFuLee

Nan Yang said:


> For you.



For me what?


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## Uguduwa

Nan Yang said:


> Errrr. No. China is doing very well without chaotic multi party election.


for now


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## Nan Yang

Uguduwa said:


> for now


Err. No. It's doing very well for 40 years. It's all about good government.

China today have a more functional government than US or UK and many other electoral democracy.

Because of that China can focus on development while others focus on elections.


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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> First of all, I never said "All Pro-Beijing" are bad people. If you can find in anywhere, in any shape or form that I said that, I gladly eat my own word and apologise. But on the other hand, you see all protestor as bad people, and we should have no right to protest.
> 
> Second of all, I had condemn many time SPECIFICALLY, from either side for their violence, I am a trained lawyer, I don't condone with any criminal activities, I don't even agree with all 5 request set forth for the protester.
> 
> And do tell me how I "protect" criminal, actually, you accuse me as one of the criminal without any proof by saying "Why I wasn't arrested" and "How I sleep at night after killing an old man" You need to put up or shut up.
> 
> Also, it's because people like you give pro-Beijing people a bad name. You don't digest what other people think, you only have one thought, that is Beijing is good, no matter what. And by doing so, you ignore basically what other people say and need. It's cool for you because you don't live in Hong Kong (I even doubt you live in China) I do, after next year, I need to go back to Hong Kong and start my own business, what you think may be fun and game to you, for me, it's reality.


I didn't mean you said pro-beijing was bad. I meant you use 'not bad' which is common to all people as an excuse to erase rioters' crime. But they are not good either. When rioters burnt people alive, disrupted the public. They are definitely bad, you can't use 'not bad' to excuse and tell people to sympathize with them. On other hand, you blamed 'both sides' as the implicit way to say the law enforcement is violent and the police shouldn't do nothing just let these rioters freely do whatever they want. that is good enough to say you protect criminals.


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## Globenim

Guess no cries about foreign interference and manipulation, with all the U.S. and U.S. patsies "free" propaganda lies, fakenews, trolls and "local" "peaceful" terrorists that have been showered over Hong Kong, from the same propaganda mouthpieces and Washington authorities leading the interference and manipulation.

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## Hamartia Antidote

I guess they didn’t learn anything from Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton about being surrounded by “yes” men analyzing pre-election data.

https://qz.com/1755176/beijing-is-a-victim-of-its-own-hong-kong-propaganda/amp/

*Hong Kong’s shock election result shows how Beijing falls victim to its own propaganda*

In the weeks running up to yesterday’s (Nov. 24) district council elections in Hong Kong—largely seen as a referendum on the public’s views toward the protests that have wracked the city—*the local government and Beijing seemed convinced that a “silent majority,” tired of blocked roads and school suspensions, would cast their votes decisively against “violent rioters.”*

A tweet from English-language newspaper China Daily a day before the election, for example, urged people to “vote pro-establishment” (a term referring to candidates loyal to Beijing) in order to help Hong Kong “return to normal life.” Nationalistic tabloid Global Times similarly urged Hong Kongers to cast their vote to “end violence.” Chief executive Carrie Lam and her administration ramped up their rhetoric that violent radicals had hijacked the protest movement and that it was time for the electorate to cut ties with them.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1198127167617425408
The landslide win by the pro-democracy camp, however—which took control of all but one of the city’s 18 local councils—*has thrown China’s propaganda machine into confusion, to say the least. Major news outlets remained silent on the drubbing of Beijing’s preferred candidates as the results rolled in in the morning. Later, some publications, such as the Global Times, turned* to a classic scapegoat—foreign interference in elections—to explain the election result. China’s foreign minister Wang Yi had little to say beyond reiterating that Hong Kong was a part of China.


The opposition’s huge win was all the more shocking given that political parties loyal to Beijing, such as the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment of Hong Kong (DAB), receive strong backing from Beijing’s representative office in the city, including the donation of an expensive piece of artwork in 2018 that netted millions of dollars for the party at a fundraiser. The DAB and other pro-Beijing parties have resources to spend at a grassroots level that pro-democracy parties do not have, such as subsidized outings for the elderly and cinema tickets for kids. In addition, Beijing has applied pressure in other ways to influence local elections, for example by pushing for the disqualification of candidates it doesn’t like from elected positions. Most recently, activist Joshua Wong was barred from running in the district council election on the grounds that he promoted self-determination in his views, a judgment that was not regularly enforced across the slate of pro-democracy candidates with similar views.

One thing that Beijing hasn’t appeared to invest in, however, is better ways of reading the public mood in Hong Kong. HK01, a digital news outlet, reported that(link in Chinese) Beijing knew it was at a disadvantage but was shocked at the extent of the defeat of the pro-establishment parties—the DAB fielded more than 180 candidates, and won just 21 seats. It’s hard to believe that Beijing would be taken aback by the result, given the relentless protests since June, initially over a now-withdrawn bill that aggravated longstanding fears that the territory is losing the autonomy guaranteed upon its return to China. In recent months, multiple opinion polls have shown distrust of both the police and the Hong Kong government consistently rising.

It’s clear, however, that Beijing has never been particularly good at gauging sentiment in Hong Kong, or it would not have allowed dislike of the central and local government to reach the boiling point that it did this year, while missing numerous chances that may have stopped unrest from escalating.

According to a report by the South China Morning Post, part of the blame lies in the labyrinthine and uncoordinated methods employed by Beijing to conduct research on the ground in Hong Kong, with multiple channels of people reporting different information to the top. Another reason is that *the people it employs to gather information tend to devote more attention to more loyalist voices in the city, rather than to opposition or younger voices*—even personal contacts that might expand its worldview are limited, for example by excluding more fervent pro-democracy figures from events featuring visiting Chinese leadership. Meanwhile officials at the top levels of the Hong Kong government are themselves almost studiously out of touch: In public remarks made earlier this month, Hong Kong’s number two official Matthew Cheung said that he wasn’t sure why people were so angry at the government.

Indeed, in a political system that has grown to be intolerant of any dissent, it’s hard to imagine how the Chinese Communist Party could avoid receiving bad intelligence on Hong Kong—or any other issue, for that matter. Trapped in an echo chamber of its own making, Beijing has, at every juncture, doubled down on its hardline rhetoric that the protesters represent an independence movementcommitting acts of terrorism, with the support of overseas governments and Western media. While the strategy played well to a nationalism-fueled domestic audience, especially as protests escalated in violence over months, in practice it leaves little room for the party to climb down, and find new and flexible ways of engaging with the genuine demands of the movement which include greater democratic representation and an investigation into police brutality.

That total lack of flexibility and imagination was once again on display today, when even after such a disastrous performance for the pro-Beijing candidates, some pro-Beijing newspapers and politicians in Hong Kong suggesting that the “terror” unleashed by “rioters” left people afraid to voice their true opinions. A report (link in Chinese) from party news agency Xinhua did not even mention the election result, only stating that the election had concluded after months of violent unrest and collusion with foreign forces.

And China’s foreign ministry could only muster the same lines that it’s repeated for the last five months—it firmly supports Carrie Lam and the restoration of order in Hong Kong. It didn’t say how.

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## DavidsSling

Hamartia Antidote said:


> View attachment 591657
> View attachment 591658
> View attachment 591659
> 
> 
> Well the chances of Taiwan agreeing to a smooth unification transition has now gone out the window if they can’t even handle Hong Kong.
> 
> https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...ina-leaders-routed-polls-191125161445516.html
> 
> 
> All eyes are on how Hong Kong's pro-Beijing authorities respond to their stunning defeat after nearly three million voters delivered a landslide election victory to pro-democracy opposition parties.
> 
> 
> Democratic candidates won 86 percent of the 452 seats in district council elections in the semi-autonomous city on Sunday - a vote viewed as a test for the Hong Kong leadership after half a year of often-violent demonstrations against Beijing's influence.
> 
> "The pressure on the government is tremendous and public opinion unambiguous," Ma Ngok, a political scientist at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, told Al Jazeera.
> 
> "*The government had counted on a reversal of public opinion that didn't come*. So, the momentum of the protest movement will no doubt continue," he said.
> 
> Since early June, Hong Kong has been rocked by protests sparked by a bill that would have allowed people to be extradited to mainland China to stand trial.
> 
> Although the contentious bill was formally withdrawn last month, the protesters continue to demand an independent inquiry into alleged police brutality, amnesty for more than 1,000 people charged with offences during the demonstrations, and full democracy to elect the legislature and chief executive.
> 
> Hong Kong's embattled Chief Executive Carrie Lam has not made a public appearance since casting her vote on Sunday, but issued a statement after the election results were announced on Monday.
> 
> "The government will listen to the opinions of members of the public humbly and seriously reflect," said Lam.
> 
> Starry Lee, leader of the biggest pro-Beijing party who narrowly defeated her challenger, also called for reflection by the city's administration.
> 
> "We hope the government can deeply reflect upon and examine its own shortcomings in handling the bill and restoring order to society," Lee said.
> 
> *Landslide democrat victory *
> All told, the pan-democratic camp and its allies dominated 17 of the 18 districts up for election and swept up nearly 400 of the 452 seats, an almost 30 percent rise since the 2014 vote.
> 
> The *voter turnout of 71 percent - a record* for any election since the territory returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997 - dealt a blow to the government, not the least because it had failed to quell the protests by force.
> 
> "The overwhelming majority that voted against the government shatters its claim to any legitimacy," Ma said.
> 
> In Hong Kong, district councils evolved from colonial-era local advisory boards to introduce elected representatives to the legislature. They are the only elections in the city that offer any form of truly democratic rule.
> 
> The defeat of its incumbents will cost pro-Beijing parties several legislative seats in next year's election.
> 
> Given district councillors account for 10 percent of the total 1,200 electors for the chief executive, the democratic sweep gives the camp a little more sway in an electorate still stacked with mostly pro-Beijing loyalists.
> 
> More importantly, however, Sunday's election was heralded as the closest thing to a referendum because it tapped into the constituency on the grassroots level.
> 
> While past council elections were mostly about hyper-local issues, many candidates this year openly campaigned over the issues being raised by the protesters - and won.
> 
> Riding the momentum of their triumph, about 100 newly-elected district councillors - to be sworn in on New Year's Day - descended on the city's Polytechnic University, where a few dozen protesters faced a police lockdown for eight days.
> 
> *'Lasting effect'*
> Galvanised by months of protests, the number of registered voters aged between 18 and 35 in Hong Kong spiked by more than 12 percent, with a record 4.1 million people now on the electoral rolls.
> 
> The election also saw many young faces joining the fray, casting aside the belief popular among the older generation that politics is an unworthy and even corrupt pursuit. Their victory disrupts district councils long dominated by local figureheads and old-time politicians.
> 
> The last time the democrats performed well was in 2003 when they rode the public discontent over a controversial sedition bill. But the tide turned in the next two elections.
> 
> "This time it will have a more lasting effect given the sheer anger towards the government," political commentator Ching Cheong told Al Jazeera.
> 
> "Back then, the government was less hell-bent on going against public opinion. Now, their arrogance of power clearly shows."
> 
> The landslide victory even took the winning democrats by surprise.
> 
> Vows mere made in online forums about running naked in the park
> and plunging into the harbour if certain incumbents lost. Political observers had also predicted a democratic takeover of only half the seats.
> 
> "We were surprised by the turnout and the margin," said Debby Chan, 29, one of the winning candidates from a suburban district long dominated by conservatives and never won by the democrats.
> 
> Meanwhile, China has been guarded in its response.
> 
> "China's central government resolutely supports Chief Executive Carrie Lam's leadership," said the country's foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang at a press briefing.
> 
> Ching, however, said Beijing will read the election results as an act of "blatant resistance" against the Hong Kong government.
> 
> "They will only solidify their mistrust of Hong Kong," he said.



Taiwan is next they want to stay free and democratic as well.

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## Hamartia Antidote

So let's end this thread on a high note reported by China's best ally...





*Ruptly: Hong Kong: Protesters pop champagne for electoral victory*


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## Rasengan

KungFuLee said:


> I read news from all over, Apple Daily, Ming Bao, Cable News Network and even TVB (Which is very pro-China these days)
> 
> I regret that someone is threaten @bbccdd1470 mother, but you also need to know, at the same time, people threaten protestor, their live and their family member, just a few days ago, there exist this militia called "Good Hong Kong Citizens Group" wearing some kind of uniform and beat protestor up in the street and expose family member detail of protestor and threat the live of their family (That's why I don't give any
> personal information here)
> 
> You need to understand, these happens a lot in Hong Kong these day, not just to pro-Chinese people and not just to @bbccdd1470



I agree both sides have been affected by the use of violence which should be condemned. You spoke earlier on the topic of black shirts a bunch of hired gangs used by the mainland Govt to attack the protestors. Violence has increased because the Govt refuses to pay them according to some people. I personally believe this rumor is farfetched. The triads based in HK have a large operation in mainland China and this is sanctioned by the local Govt as long as they behave and follow the rules of the game. Thus, the triads aren't in the position to blackmail the mainland Govt and such actions in HK are counterproductive to the central Govt's strategy in winning the hearts and minds of the HK people. Therefore, it only takes a click of a finger to destroy these gangs who are becoming an obstacle. If the HK police are employing "Black policemen" why do they need to use the Blackshirts? What is your opinion on this issue?

By the way, I am not denying the assumption that a militia exists called the "Good Hong Kong Citizens Group". But don't you think members of this group are ordinary HK citizens rather than triad members? I am glad to hear you condemn violence and you have been consistent on this issue so I don't know why some members on this forum are accusing you falsely. You did the right thing by not giving your personal details. I find it sad to read how violence has become the norm in HK.




KungFuLee said:


> In Hong Kong, medical personal carry some sort of official ID (I know for a fact Paramedic were issue with Medical Council ID from a friend who work as a paramedic, not sure about nurse and doctors, I can ask my friend but that would be hearsay) So, when you are on/off duty, you carry those ID so you can identify yourself as a medical professional. So even when you are off duty and off uniform, you can ID yourself as Medical Personnel and help live saving, and that is done for insurance purposed because business maybe liable to its customer if they are injured and some unknown people without any ID volunteer to help but just got worse (It's something called Duty of Care) so Medical Personal carries ID with their HKID Card all the time.
> 
> 
> On a normal situation, you only need to check both Medical Council ID against your HKID, and you will be verify as a Medical Personnel, it wouldn't take 1 minutes (I mean how fast can you pull 2 ID from your wallet?) so for the Police to detain Medical Personnel like that is highly unusual.
> 
> And to answer your question.
> 1.) They are Medical Personnel, the union have confirmed. In any case, you don't need to detain them like this to find out. This is highly demoralized as a society.
> 2.) They are involved in the protest, their involvement are there to treat any injury and provide first hand medical care to people. This has been done since the protest heat up, the medical personnel know better to stay neutral. Read below to see how they are involved.



In your opinion can a person forge an official medical ID? @bbccdd1470 in his post has shown how some of the protestors carried with them fake reporter ID cards. Thus, can we assume such a scenario can play out with protestors pretending to be medical staff? I have to admit the police could have verified there identification within a few minutes. What I am trying to highlight is what benefit does the police get in targeting First Responder units? According to @bbccdd1470 the way some media outlets have shown these videos and pictures is distorted to paint a certain narrative against the police force and by defacto China.




KungFuLee said:


> One of the complaint point by international organisation (Amnesty International, International Red Cross, even Doctors from Doctors without Border) are that the Police delay medical treatment and sometime uses Medical Treatment as a bait and withhold it in order to force the arrested subject to confess without present of Lawyers. In the Police Service Charter, Medical care are supposed to deliver promptly and without prejudice, but for the case that was interviewed, Police delay medical request and only give it to the arrestee after they have been booked (Which mean a statement taken, fingerprinted, processed) Which this mean there are delay up to 5 hours depends on the activities of any given Police Station.



I can understand as a lawyer this concerns you greatly. I would also be concerned if those arrested are forced to confess without the presence of a lawyer. This action does infringe upon a person's basic human rights. The only solution to this problem is a public inquiry. No one should be above the law and everyone should be held accountable to it. Using the law selectively shows duplicity and the mainland Govt will not win the hearts and minds of the HK people. Do you think this occurs because the "Black Policeman" are involved and they have no clue on how the process works in HK?



KungFuLee said:


> I don't think we can compare Hong Kong to Pakistan, or even Hong Kong to China. I mean, Pakistan is at war constantly with multiple group and there are group that destabilize Pakistan from within as well, so I would say it's logical to have extra measure to ensure its citizens safety.
> 
> On the other hand, Hong Kong does not generally see violence, we are living in a very peaceful environment prior to this, and the money and resource we devoted to train our police force is top notch, if not world top 10. And the integrity of independent policing is what make the system work. And this is the same system we have been operating on and supposed to be working until 2047, but if this integrity started to damage like this, and we are not even half way mark to 2047, how are we supposed to maintain the integrity of our society?
> 
> As I said before, the core of these problem right now is the Chinese Government intervening into public affair that under Basic Law, it would have been our own charter, people in Hong Kong is not asking for China to give us something extra, or more autonomous, but rather, things that has been going for a long time and was promised not to change for another 27 years that is what people is protesting about.
> 
> As for the Black Police, there are absolutely no action on them, that is the reason why we want to have an independent Police Inquiry, but the government is not giving us that. In places like UK or Australia, they would have formed a Royal Commission already.



Pakistan was at war. We don't official have terrorists operating inside our borders because they were pushed into Afghanistan. Obviously, the environment of HK is different but the only explanation I have of the police breaking formation is poor training and poor mental capacity to deal with pressure. HK reminds me of Saudi Arabia. Saudi spends $86 billion on military equipment each year. In fact, they are the fourth largest arms purchaser in the world. Yet with all that money spent their training is poor hence why they have struggled in Yemen and have issues domestically. If the HK police force was top ten then they wouldn't have broken formation, in fact, they have made HK look like a banana republic in how they conducted themselves. From my perspective they have failed in intelligence, arresting the ring leaders of the rioters and how to disperse the crowd in a more efficient manner. And if the integrity of independent policing is what makes the system work then why are they using "Black Policeman". They need help to deal with the protestors speaks volume on their inefficiency.

I want to ask you another question and would like to hear your opinion. I know HK was promised its own charter under the Basic Law. But don't you think these same protestors will be angry when 2047 comes around? The Chinese could be interfering in HK but don't you think its best to bring in slow changes rather than bringing radical reform in one swoop? The mainland Govt is essentially testing the waters.




KungFuLee said:


> I am not sure, but that is the reason they give when the media ask the Police why they did not make public of those change. That is what they said "So it would not hamper Police operation"
> 
> I don't have any detail on the change beside when did they change it, but I doubt they passed thru the Legco. Since they are having a election, which mean there should be no motion hearing. And since I did not hear about any emergency session, so I would assume that change was done unliterally. But don't quote me on that as that is my own conjecture.
> 
> As far as I know the protestor did not demand a reform of Police department. I think the 5 demands are
> 
> 1.) Withdraw the Bill (Which is done)
> 2.) Carrie Lam Resign
> 3.) Independent Police Inquiry
> 4.) Amnesty to all Protestor that is arrested (Fat chance....as I said, throw the book at all trouble maker)
> 5.) General Election/Universal Suffrage
> 
> Of the 5 demands, I only support 1 to 3.



It would seem the police department didn't follow the correct procedure. I'm curious to know why you don't support demand 2?



KungFuLee said:


> You would be right if they have already done something in Poly U when the Police call for their surrender, but when they call for their surrender, it was at the very beginning and before any clashes with the Police. So if there were no clashes, then how one can break the rules of Rioting?
> 
> I don't really think you understand the whole event (at least not from @bbccdd1470 perspective and how he tells you.
> 
> The Police arrive at PolyU at around 11am and by 9pm, the Police declare everyone inside or prepare to go inside to aid the protestor will be arrested for Rioting, at the same time, the Police offer to anyone who wish to peaceful surrender to them at this point to leave via an exit (not remember which one on top of my head) So, numerous teaching staff, media, medic, by-stander try to leave via this exit and once they do, the Police Ambush them and take them down (I think take them down is a kind word, more like a beat down) That is also where the Police arrested those Medical personnel you saw on the picture before.
> 
> Note that those people are probably just caught in the cross fired by an earlier incident (I personally know some teaching staff that was just there to try to talk some sense to the protestor) so these people are mostly didn't do anything, but they got taken down and arrested. The Protestor saw that and if that was you, and you saw your teacher who just come down to the campus and talk you out of retaliating got arrested like this, would you surrender to the Police?
> 
> I mean, the first instant when they offer people to walk off, that should be consequence free as that was at the beginning of the siege. But that is not the case, and on the contrary, people done that have been taking down without prejudice. So you tell me what people should think about that?



Okay, thanks for the explanation. If the police arrive in PolyU at around 9am then what were they doing up to 11pm when they offered the terms of surrender? I think the action of the police to ambush the people who surrendered peacefully was wrong. How did the medical staff know there was going to be a protest before the police arrive? This suggests to me they were part of the protest hence explains why in how incidences they have been arrested. I personally think it's wrong to use your profession as a "get out free jail card" when push comes to shove and you are caught with the rioters. I could be wrong in my interpretation of the event so feel free to correct me on this issue. In this case, the medical personnel didn't take part in the violence but how can we be sure in other incidences that haven't happened.

Brother, did you study in PolyU? The police should have used common sense and allow the teachers to calm the protestors. Again police training is poor but in this situation, the negotiators have failed. I can understand from your explanation why the protestors reacted the way they did when they saw their teachers mishandled. This is my personal opinion brother but I always feel society is broken down when teachers aren't respected. Teachers are the bedrock of society they are the torchbearers for the youth. I would probably have fought instead of surrendered if the situation played out as mentioned in your post. I also agree people will be further angered and fight against the Govt. Carrie Lam needs to resign. Someone new with a fresh insight needs to come into the picture and resolve this issue.





KungFuLee said:


> I welcome questions, in fact, I am looking for answer myself, I cannot be at all the front at the same time. So what I say only applies to what my perception of these affair is. I only come here to report what I see, and maybe offer some insight as to what is really going on. I always put my fact (fact that I know myself) and my conjecture separated.
> 
> On the other hand, I have no quell on people try to ignore me, @bbccdd1470 he is quite obviously have a different stance than me on the issue, he put me on an ignore list mostly because he also probably ignore all pro-Hong Kong news outlet. I mean that is up to him, if he want to be just informed by the Pro-China media, that is his choosing, I choose a more well rounded approach. But at the end of the day, we are just 2 side of the same coin, and in the end, his side would probably win, well, because Hong Kong is indeed part of China. He don't care about the stuff that I care and vice versa, that basically summed up the whole sentiment in Hong Kong.
> 
> There are worst case those which is the parent are inline with Pro-China stance and their son/daughter goes to demonstrate, it's not hard at all to find family that don't speak to each other because they are on different stance. If a family can be like this, what say it can't happen to 2 strangers live at the same place?



That's good to hear. A person who does not question and not looks for answers is a fool. I welcome your participation in this thread brother. I always like to listen to both sides of the story. I agree with the analogy provided in your last sentence. I pray the situation improves in HK.


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## Hamartia Antidote

RT again




*Hong Kong Thousands celebrate as Trump signs act backing protesters*


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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> I didn't mean you said pro-beijing was bad. I meant you use 'not bad' which is common to all people as an excuse to erase rioters' crime. But they are not good either. When rioters burnt people alive, disrupted the public. They are definitely bad, you can't use 'not bad' to excuse and tell people to sympathize with them. On other hand, you blamed 'both sides' as the implicit way to say the law enforcement is violent and the police shouldn't do nothing just let these rioters freely do whatever they want. that is good enough to say you protect criminals.



So, basically you judge me from two word that I said? Can it be anymore shallow?

First of all, your mentality is incorrect, not all protestor riot. and more importantly, not all rioter are protestor Even today, there are still peaceful protest that did not end up with the Riot Police fire anything to disperse the crowd. 

I never said the people who burn down shop is not bad, I said not all protestor burn down shop. 

As for police action, they are heavy handed, which is a fact both Pro and Anti Beijing people both agrees, just that the Anti-Government protestor want the Police to use less force and the Pro-Beijing people call for even tougher measure like actually killing protestor/rioter. 

Again, you weren't there, I was, and I am going to be back there permanently once my studies here concluded. So you don't need to tell me what was going on over there, if anything, I tell you what is going on in Hong Kong.


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## Foggy_Bottom

Law means Washington can impose sanctions on Chinese and Hong Kong officials deemed responsible for human rights abuses.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...gather-human-rights-bill-191128163257999.html

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## IblinI

Where are the Human right bills for Catalunya and Chile?


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## smooth manifold

Foggy_Bottom said:


> Law means Washington can impose sanctions on Chinese and Hong Kong officials deemed responsible for human rights abuses.
> 
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...gather-human-rights-bill-191128163257999.html



then you're slapping your own face. the CIA agents in HK are those human rights abusers.


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## KungFuLee

Rasengan said:


> I agree both sides have been affected by the use of violence which should be condemned. You spoke earlier on the topic of black shirts a bunch of hired gangs used by the mainland Govt to attack the protestors. Violence has increased because the Govt refuses to pay them according to some people. I personally believe this rumor is farfetched. The triads based in HK have a large operation in mainland China and this is sanctioned by the local Govt as long as they behave and follow the rules of the game. Thus, the triads aren't in the position to blackmail the mainland Govt and such actions in HK are counterproductive to the central Govt's strategy in winning the hearts and minds of the HK people. Therefore, it only takes a click of a finger to destroy these gangs who are becoming an obstacle. If the HK police are employing "Black policemen" why do they need to use the Blackshirts? What is your opinion on this issue?
> 
> By the way, I am not denying the assumption that a militia exists called the "Good Hong Kong Citizens Group". But don't you think members of this group are ordinary HK citizens rather than triad members? I am glad to hear you condemn violence and you have been consistent on this issue so I don't know why some members on this forum are accusing you falsely. You did the right thing by not giving your personal details. I find it sad to read how violence has become the norm in HK.



The triad is white shirt, black shirt is protestor.

Well, I cannot agrees or disagrees with what you said that, because afterall, as I said, this is just a tabloid rumour. But as far as my understanding goes. You are right, the Triad is mostly operate between HK and China and have deep connection to China, so when those pro-Hong Kong people started to come out to protest, the triad would be on the government side.

On the other hand, they are Triad, would they come out and following all the rules? That's highly unlikely. I mean you are asking known trouble maker to behave.

The Police was not that involved before the white shirt people started to make trouble. Although I usually do not comment on rumour (Beside tell you the rumour), since you ask me what I think, so I will tell you what I think about the White Shirt and the Black Copper. I think the government uses triad to try to subdue the protest, or the triad, on their own, try to subdue the protest (That doesn't really make much sense though). And the white shirt wave is gone, either mutinied or they just lost interest, and the protest heated up, they don't have enough front line police officer to deal with the situation, they then need to use Mainland Police.

This is what I think, again, I cannot prove any of it, so it remain as my conjecture




> In your opinion can a person forge an official medical ID? @bbccdd1470 in his post has shown how some of the protestors carried with them fake reporter ID cards. Thus, can we assume such a scenario can play out with protestors pretending to be medical staff? I have to admit the police could have verified there identification within a few minutes. What I am trying to highlight is what benefit does the police get in targeting First Responder units? According to @bbccdd1470 the way some media outlets have shown these videos and pictures is distorted to paint a certain narrative against the police force and by defacto China.



Report ID and Medic ID are very different. Report ID is made by the company that they worked for, SCMP, TVB, AP or whatever, Medic ID is issued by government body (Not really sure what's the English name for that), much like your driver licences or your ID card. Can you forge a driver license or HK ID card? Of course, but I think its way too much effort to do that just to protest, also getting caught with such document is against the law, so if you get caught using a fake medic ID, then you will get charge an extra crime, which don't really worth the risk.

As to why they target first responder. That is a good question. I think there are multitude of answer

First of all, the Police may really think protestor may be hiding as a medic? I mean, unless you were being ask to check ID, you may actually can pass as one? So there are some concern there.

Also, you need to look at how the other department looks at the Police force, mostly they are calling for a calmer response, and people (At least now) generally view the Fire Department and Medical people in higher regard than the police force, maybe the Police want to send some message.

If you ask 10 different people, you will get 10 different answer on this question, I don't think there actually is an answer, but the fact to the matter is, these things do happens, and when you see them lined up like that and put their hand behind their back, instead of just a few moment of producing ID, now, unless you tell me that all the people in that picture I show you are fake medics, nurses and doctors (Which the Medical Personnel Union already said they are indeed medical personnel) there are no legitimate answer to the Police Force to do things like that.




> I can understand as a lawyer this concerns you greatly. I would also be concerned if those arrested are forced to confess without the presence of a lawyer. This action does infringe upon a person's basic human rights. The only solution to this problem is a public inquiry. No one should be above the law and everyone should be held accountable to it. Using the law selectively shows duplicity and the mainland Govt will not win the hearts and minds of the HK people. Do you think this occurs because the "Black Policeman" are involved and they have no clue on how the process works in HK?



to answer in short, I don't know...

While there are claim that the people who got arrested did not fully given their rights, which if so, would be seriously challenged in court. And if the judge do found procedure error, then they will be released without charge, even may get some sort of compensation. So, it would not benefit the government any bit if such things do happens. So from the stance of it, if the government really do want to prosecute people, they would do it by the book. So, my opinion is, either these exist but in an individual case, or they are expediting the arresting procedure (once again, it was with PSO, so they could have change it), police force are allow to lies so say they lied to a protestor saying he must confess to the crime before they can seek medical treatment, or these type of rumour is just that, rumour.

As for the Black Police, well, again, I don't know, because I cannot simply prove that did exist, so that remain as my conjecture, but seems like if they do exist, they would just be involve in frontline policing, not booking, as you said, they wouldn't know the procedure in Hong Kong, but then again, there are rumour that these Black Police 
disappear protestor by rendition them to China. Again, that would just be a hearsay.



> Pakistan was at war. We don't official have terrorists operating inside our borders because they were pushed into Afghanistan. Obviously, the environment of HK is different but the only explanation I have of the police breaking formation is poor training and poor mental capacity to deal with pressure. HK reminds me of Saudi Arabia. Saudi spends $86 billion on military equipment each year. In fact, they are the fourth largest arms purchaser in the world. Yet with all that money spent their training is poor hence why they have struggled in Yemen and have issues domestically. If the HK police force was top ten then they wouldn't have broken formation, in fact, they have made HK look like a banana republic in how they conducted themselves. From my perspective they have failed in intelligence, arresting the ring leaders of the rioters and how to disperse the crowd in a more efficient manner. And if the integrity of independent policing is what makes the system work then why are they using "Black Policeman". They need help to deal with the protestors speaks volume on their inefficiency.



The things is, you cannot arrest the "ring leader" before they have committed a crime, or more specific, you can proof a crime have been committed. The leader (I assume you mean the student leader, because there are no general leader in the protest in general) call for a protest, and a protest is allowed and legal in Hong Kong, where rioting is not, however, how do you proof, and gather evidence on those student leader that their intention is not peaceful protest but rather planning a riot? Until you can prove that, there are no clause for the arrest. And as for my understanding, most student leader do not condone violent anyway, so it seems as if the trouble maker using the opportunities of protest to make trouble, if so, the student leader did not break the law. 

As I said before, Hong Kong police were highly regarded internationally, so for them to do such a things is highly unlikely, maybe there are some third party involved? ie, Black Police? I am not sure, that would be for the independent investigation to find out, if there is one. 




> I want to ask you another question and would like to hear your opinion. I know HK was promised its own charter under the Basic Law. But don't you think these same protestors will be angry when 2047 comes around? The Chinese could be interfering in HK but don't you think its best to bring in slow changes rather than bringing radical reform in one swoop? The mainland Govt is essentially testing the waters.



By 2047, we would all be old man, I would be in late 50s, if there is a fight in 2047, that fight would have been
for the next generation (or even the one after). So I cannot comment on that.

The thing is, we are not in 2047, as I said, the basic law guarantee those right, and we are not asking for stuff we did not have, we are asking for the stuff we have remain unchanged. That is the major different as to why people see the issue differently. Slow changes is still changes. it remind me of a similar issue between India and Pakistan when India revoke Article 370 in Jammu and Kashmir region, would you think it would be better off for India to slowly change the status in Article 370 than a big giant cut on it? I maybe out of bounce here because I don't really understand what happen In that region. But this is what I think of is similar to the situation, you may not agree.



> It would seem the police department didn't follow the correct procedure. I'm curious to know why you don't support demand 2?



I do support demand 2, I said I support 1 to 3, she have to go, her reputation is at new low in the latest survey, (I think it was at 6 points), there are no point she stay as head of government. She should just resign like Tung Chee Wah




> Okay, thanks for the explanation. If the police arrive in PolyU at around 9am then what were they doing up to 11pm when they offered the terms of surrender? I think the action of the police to ambush the people who surrendered peacefully was wrong. How did the medical staff know there was going to be a protest before the police arrive? This suggests to me they were part of the protest hence explains why in how incidences they have been arrested. I personally think it's wrong to use your profession as a "get out free jail card" when push comes to shove and you are caught with the rioters. I could be wrong in my interpretation of the event so feel free to correct me on this issue. In this case, the medical personnel didn't take part in the violence but how can we be sure in other incidences that haven't happened.
> 
> Brother, did you study in PolyU? The police should have used common sense and allow the teachers to calm the protestors. Again police training is poor but in this situation, the negotiators have failed. I can understand from your explanation why the protestors reacted the way they did when they saw their teachers mishandled. This is my personal opinion brother but I always feel society is broken down when teachers aren't respected. Teachers are the bedrock of society they are the torchbearers for the youth. I would probably have fought instead of surrendered if the situation played out as mentioned in your post. I also agree people will be further angered and fight against the Govt. Carrie Lam needs to resign. Someone new with a fresh insight needs to come into the picture and resolve this issue.



I wasn't at the Protest in PolyU, I only heard from one of my friend, and I think he got arrested now. So what I am about to tell you are hearsay.

The Police does not arrive at 9am, there was an earlier incident at 9 (not sure what happened, maybe some argument between protester and general public) and Police were called at 11 am. The Medical staff was responding to the earlier incident at 9 o'clock and was already in campus when the police arrived around 11. 

The Police issued a surrender at 9 pm, but there were talks between The President of Poly U and the Police about a peaceful solution earlier that day, and it was communicated to the people inside the Campus, however, when the people do surrender at the 9pm call, they were ambushed. This is what I got from my friend.

I went to PolyU for pre-University program, which I stayed for 1 year, then I move on to Hong Kong University. I do not know what have transpired to happen when the people try to surrender at 9 pm the first day, maybe they got out of hand (Which is highly unlikely) or the Police ignore their order and arrest everyone regardless of their involvement. I have no idea, as I said, I was not there to witness that. I just know that what indeed happen was the Police arrest everyone who heed the call of surrender, that was what actually happened.






> That's good to hear. A person who does not question and not looks for answers is a fool. I welcome your participation in this thread brother. I always like to listen to both sides of the story. I agree with the analogy provided in your last sentence. I pray the situation improves in HK.



Yeah, everyone deserved an answer, and for those who were involved, they need to know what they are getting into. I mean, we are all mature adult here (although some protestor are actually minor) so we should know and keen to find out what is the root clause of all these. 

However, how to find that out is up to an individual, I mean that quite depends on the degree of "truth" one want to hear.

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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> So, basically you judge me from two word that I said? Can it be anymore shallow?
> 
> First of all, your mentality is incorrect, not all protestor riot. and more importantly, not all rioter are protestor Even today, there are still peaceful protest that did not end up with the Riot Police fire anything to disperse the crowd.
> 
> I never said the people who burn down shop is not bad, I said not all protestor burn down shop.
> 
> As for police action, they are heavy handed, which is a fact both Pro and Anti Beijing people both agrees, just that the Anti-Government protestor want the Police to use less force and the Pro-Beijing people call for even tougher measure like actually killing protestor/rioter.
> 
> Again, you weren't there, I was, and I am going to be back there permanently once my studies here concluded. So you don't need to tell me what was going on over there, if anything, I tell you what is going on in Hong Kong.


So you mean only Western propaganda is correct to you? so you are denying the fact there are rioters and trying to call the reality is peaceful? That is so faked because there are people arrested, there were people died and injured, there was burning, there were damage and there were frustration. What kind of peace is that? Your mentality and your peace are like that? And you tell people to trust you with your mentality like that. If there is no protestor, how did these terribly rioting things happen? Once protesters got out of control and riot when they did not get what they want and became rioters. And rioters are protesters themselves. that is clear. Still try to use misleading way to tell me stories about how rioters were peaceful?


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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> So you mean only Western propaganda is correct to you? so you are denying the fact there are no rioters and try to call the reality is peaceful? That is so faked because there are people arrested, there were people died and injured, there was burning, there were damage and there were frustration. What kind of peace is that? Your mentality and your peace are like that? And you tell people to trust you with your mentality like that. If there is no protestor, how did these terribly rioting things happen? Once protesters got out of control and riot when they did not get what they want and became rioters. And rioters are protesters themselves. that is clear. Still try to use misleading way to tell me stories about how rioters were peaceful?



The fact that you are biased is when you call it "Western Propaganda". Information is just that, information, it doesn't matter which side it come from, they are unprocessed information, then you watch it and process it yourself. This is what people have brain usually do. You have a brain right? Then you can decide what is propaganda and what is not. 

Then you try to put something in my mouth I did not say. Where do I ever say "There were no riot"? Do tell me in which post in which line I said that, and I will gladly eat my word and apologise to everyone here. 

And you still think All protestor riot. Well, that suggested what kind of mentality you have. In your mind, people should not protest and when you do protest, you ought to be shot because it will become a full blown riot. Well, I don't know where you live and it may be the way your government do, but in Hong Kong, people have a right to protest. And again, not all protestor riot. But you seems to like to banish a group of people just by choosing a few selective example. 

I mean, you choose not to find out what is going on, that's your business, that does not mean people should not and following your thought, by the way, that is the actual definition of propaganda. I am starting to think talking to you is a giant waste of time.


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## Hamartia Antidote

OMG what perfect timing!! How devious!
Looks like Hong Kong will be adding a new Holiday.

Well played Mr Trump...brilliant.

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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> The fact that you are biased is when you call it "Western Propaganda". Information is just that, information, it doesn't matter which side it come from, they are unprocessed information, then you watch it and process it yourself. This is what people have brain usually do. You have a brain right? Then you can decide what is propaganda and what is not.
> 
> Then you try to put something in my mouth I did not say. Where do I ever say "There were no riot"? Do tell me in which post in which line I said that, and I will gladly eat my word and apologise to everyone here.
> 
> And you still think All protestor riot. Well, that suggested what kind of mentality you have. In your mind, people should not protest and when you do protest, you ought to be shot because it will become a full blown riot. Well, I don't know where you live and it may be the way your government do, but in Hong Kong, people have a right to protest. And again, not all protestor riot. But you seems to like to banish a group of people just by choosing a few selective example.
> 
> I mean, you choose not to find out what is going on, that's your business, that does not mean people should not and following your thought, by the way, that is the actual definition of propaganda. I am starting to think talking to you is a giant waste of time.


You said they are "unprocessed information"? as you admitted there were rioters and you admitted you condemn them. but these propaganda hide that, you still call these information "unprocessed" as the way to show me how (biased) you are? See that is why I never trust any word come out from your mouth.
Now you admit that it was riot and you cannot hide the fact that there were rioters that is because the fact that there were rioters in protest. who care you have right to protest or not, who care you are protesters or not, protesters or any person when they made damages, burnt the city, when they killed people, violated laws they are absolutely rioter(s). there is nothing wrong to call rioters are rioters! what wrong with your mentality.

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## Foggy_Bottom

smooth manifold said:


> then you're slapping your own face. the CIA agents in HK are those human rights abusers.


Why are you paying salaries for those CIA agents through your taxes in America?


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## 8888888888888

Means nothing in 2047z


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## KungFuLee

grandmaster said:


> You said they are "unprocessed information"? as you admitted there were rioters and you admitted you condemn them. but these propaganda hide that, you still call these information "unprocessed" as the way to show me how (biased) you are? See that is why I never trust any word come out from your mouth.
> 
> Now you admit that it was riot and you cannot hide the fact that there were rioters that is because the fact that there were rioters in protest. who care you have right to protest or not, who care you are protesters or not, protesters or any person when they made damages, burnt the city, when they killed people, violated laws they are absolutely rioter(s). there is nothing wrong to call rioters are rioters! what wrong with your mentality.



Wow, I don't even know what to say.

You now completely fabricate what I said from the beginning. I don't know if this is a simple comprehension problem, or you just try to turn black into white and swing the idea back on your favour when you are the one that being wrong at the beginning.

Just look at the two paragraph you wrote, the first contradict the second. In the first one you said I have already admit there were rioter and I have condemn it, then in the second paragraph you write, I "Just" admit that it was a riot. So which is your point? I HAVE BEEN condemning riot but choose to hide under these "Western Propaganda" all those time? Or I JUST admitted there were Riot because I cannot hide behind those Propaganda anymore?

I am no longer interested in responding to you, so, please feel free not to write back anymore.


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## grandmaster

KungFuLee said:


> Wow, I don't even know what to say.
> 
> You now completely fabricate what I said from the beginning. I don't know if this is a simple comprehension problem, or you just try to turn black into white and swing the idea back on your favour when you are the one that being wrong at the beginning.
> 
> Just look at the two paragraph you wrote, the first contradict the second. In the first one you said I have already admit there were rioter and I have condemn it, then in the second paragraph you write, I "Just" admit that it was a riot. So which is your point? I HAVE BEEN condemning riot but choose to hide under these "Western Propaganda" all those time? Or I JUST admitted there were Riot because I cannot hide behind those Propaganda anymore?
> 
> I am no longer interested in responding to you, so, please feel free not to write back anymore.


Of course it is contradictory for you because you can't argue both your argument and your Western propaganda's "unprocessed information" true, i said very clear that everyone know rioters exist including you yourself, but western propaganda selectively hide rioters' information, meaning they are processed information. Not only me, even American president Trump called them faked news. You still call them unprocessed information? Don't tell me you again deny the existing of rioters in order to say western propaganda information is correct and unprocessed. if you are right then then Western propaganda is faked. If Western propaganda was not faked, then your argument is wrong. there is nothing wrong to call such western processed news as western propaganda. what wrong with you? Does saying Western propaganda irk you? Does calling terrorist-like protesters rioters irritating you? I am sorry about that, but I can't call protesters killed people as peaceful protesters. No matter you said, I still call protesters killing people and destroyed city as rioters or even terrorists.

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## JSCh

The rioter is at it again. I think the HK public that do not condemn such despicable act is guilty of enabling or worst encouraging violence.

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## vi-va

JSCh said:


> The rioter is at it again. I think the HK public that do not condemn such despicable act is guilty of enabling or worst encouraging violence.


video removed.


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## JSCh

viva_zhao said:


> video removed.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1201028568332959750

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## vi-va

JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1201028568332959750


That's how the freedom of speech(lying) destroyed HK. That's why there are thousands of Americans working in US embassy in HK.

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## Rasengan

KungFuLee said:


> The triad is white shirt, black shirt is protestor.
> 
> Well, I cannot agrees or disagrees with what you said that, because afterall, as I said, this is just a tabloid rumour. But as far as my understanding goes. You are right, the Triad is mostly operate between HK and China and have deep connection to China, so when those pro-Hong Kong people started to come out to protest, the triad would be on the government side.
> 
> On the other hand, they are Triad, would they come out and following all the rules? That's highly unlikely. I mean you are asking known trouble maker to behave.



I agree troublemakers don't follow all the rules. But in China, the Govt has an interesting relationship with the Triads. They are allowed to operate under a rule based system that doesn't interfere with governance. In the case of Hong Kong, the actions of the Triads are counterproductive to the Chinese cause. We both know people in Hong Kong weren't impressed with the train incident. One day, that young man kneeling on the floor who was begging for relief will be an icon if a film producer puts that into a movie. What I am trying to advocate in my post, the Chinese can easily stop the Triads. Thus, these attackers aren't in fact Triads but normal indigenous civilians of HK who are supporters of Beijing and have used violence to win their cause. Essentially I also call them rioters from the opposite side of the argument. In your opinion is there merit in this argument or is it hogwash? Aren't there four main Triad factions in HK? Plus are they all on the side of the Govt? I have heard rival factions are on different sides in particular when we saw the umbrella movement. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me, brother.



KungFuLee said:


> The Police was not that involved before the white shirt people started to make trouble. Although I usually do not comment on rumour (Beside tell you the rumour), since you ask me what I think, so I will tell you what I think about the White Shirt and the Black Copper. I think the government uses triad to try to subdue the protest, or the triad, on their own, try to subdue the protest (That doesn't really make much sense though). And the white shirt wave is gone, either mutinied or they just lost interest, and the protest heated up, they don't have enough front line police officer to deal with the situation, they then need to use Mainland Police.
> 
> This is what I think, again, I cannot prove any of it, so it remain as my conjecture



Okay, if the white shirts were active when the protest movement wasn't at its peak in terms of counter-violence then the black police wouldn't have been needed to subdue the protest. There is some logic around that assumption brother. I have seen a video where the protestors after the train incident have beaten up a white shirt. The overwhelming number of protestors would have made it impossible to use white shirts. This was probably the main reason they had to call up the black police to reinforce the HK police. I agree nobody can prove any of it, so it remains a conjecture.



KungFuLee said:


> Report ID and Medic ID are very different. Report ID is made by the company that they worked for, SCMP, TVB, AP or whatever, Medic ID is issued by government body (Not really sure what's the English name for that), much like your driver licences or your ID card. Can you forge a driver license or HK ID card? Of course, but I think its way too much effort to do that just to protest, also getting caught with such document is against the law, so if you get caught using a fake medic ID, then you will get charge an extra crime, which don't really worth the risk.
> 
> As to why they target first responder. That is a good question. I think there are multitude of answer
> 
> First of all, the Police may really think protestor may be hiding as a medic? I mean, unless you were being ask to check ID, you may actually can pass as one? So there are some concern there.
> 
> Also, you need to look at how the other department looks at the Police force, mostly they are calling for a calmer response, and people (At least now) generally view the Fire Department and Medical people in higher regard than the police force, maybe the Police want to send some message.
> 
> If you ask 10 different people, you will get 10 different answer on this question, I don't think there actually is an answer, but the fact to the matter is, these things do happens, and when you see them lined up like that and put their hand behind their back, instead of just a few moment of producing ID, now, unless you tell me that all the people in that picture I show you are fake medics, nurses and doctors (Which the Medical Personnel Union already said they are indeed medical personnel) there are no legitimate answer to the Police Force to do things like that.



I agree to forge a Govt ID is extremely difficult in most developed societies because there are systems in place to safeguard the institution. Otherwise, any Tom, Dick and Harry (British phrase) can infiltrate and cause mischief. Further, I also concur with your argument that a report ID and a Govt ID (Medic is part of the civil service) are two different things so we can't judge them the same when it comes to forgery. A person is just asking for trouble if they are caught with a fake Medic ID. I think the other side (supporters of Beijing) have used this argument of claiming protestors are claiming to be Medics to escape police justice.

But I have one problem with the concerns of the police. Okay, they have a hunch the Medical personnel they have apprehended is a phony. Why in the case of your mother did they take 3 hours to release them? At most, it should have taken them 10 mins to verify them as legitimate Medics. They could have taken your mother to the hospital and questioned the staff there. I find the action of the police here irresponsible.

I agree 10 people will give you 10 different answers to this question. Its difficult to call someone a fake Medic when they are endorsed by the Union. This clearly demonstrates to me why the HK Govt has loss the narrative and is held in contempt by the people. They only have themselves to blame. Carrie Lam needs to do the right thing and resign. I will always support the idea of HK belonging to China but they must govern better to win the hearts and minds of the people.



KungFuLee said:


> to answer in short, I don't know...
> While there are claim that the people who got arrested did not fully given their rights, which if so, would be seriously challenged in court. And if the judge do found procedure error, then they will be released without charge, even may get some sort of compensation. So, it would not benefit the government any bit if such things do happens. So from the stance of it, if the government really do want to prosecute people, they would do it by the book. So, my opinion is, either these exist but in an individual case, or they are expediting the arresting procedure (once again, it was with PSO, so they could have change it), police force are allow to lies so say they lied to a protestor saying he must confess to the crime before they can seek medical treatment, or these type of rumour is just that, rumour.
> 
> As for the Black Police, well, again, I don't know, because I cannot simply prove that did exist, so that remain as my conjecture, but seems like if they do exist, they would just be involve in frontline policing, not booking, as you said, they wouldn't know the procedure in Hong Kong, but then again, there are rumour that these Black Police
> disappear protestor by rendition them to China. Again, that would just be a hearsay
> 
> .



It would make sense to put the Black policeman at the frontline and not give them the task of booking protestors. But there have been irregularities in HK policing in recent times such as in the case of your mother. This suggests to me they are overlapping their duties inside HK. Obviously, this is conjecture on my part. I have no evidence to prove such a scenario and my friend is duty-bound to keep secrets of his department. I would have lectured him if he didn't stick to his duty regardless of if I wanted to know the answer to this question. I hope they aren't booking people and secretly renditioning them to China. That would break the public's trust. 





KungFuLee said:


> The things is, you cannot arrest the "ring leader" before they have committed a crime, or more specific, you can proof a crime have been committed. The leader (I assume you mean the student leader, because there are no general leader in the protest in general) call for a protest, and a protest is allowed and legal in Hong Kong, where rioting is not, however, how do you proof, and gather evidence on those student leader that their intention is not peaceful protest but rather planning a riot? Until you can prove that, there are no clause for the arrest. And as for my understanding, most student leader do not condone violent anyway, so it seems as if the trouble maker using the opportunities of protest to make trouble, if so, the student leader did not break the law.
> 
> As I said before, Hong Kong police were highly regarded internationally, so for them to do such a things is highly unlikely, maybe there are some third party involved? ie, Black Police? I am not sure, that would be for the independent investigation to find out, if there is one.
> 
> 
> By 2047, we would all be old man, I would be in late 50s, if there is a fight in 2047, that fight would have been
> for the next generation (or even the one after). So I cannot comment on that.
> 
> The thing is, we are not in 2047, as I said, the basic law guarantee those right, and we are not asking for stuff we did not have, we are asking for the stuff we have remain unchanged. That is the major different as to why people see the issue differently. Slow changes is still changes. it remind me of a similar issue between India and Pakistan when India revoke Article 370 in Jammu and Kashmir region, would you think it would be better off for India to slowly change the status in Article 370 than a big giant cut on it? I maybe out of bounce here because I don't really understand what happen In that region. But this is what I think of is similar to the situation, you may not agree.
> 
> 
> .



I agree you cannot arrest people before they have committed a crime. However, in the UK the police can arrest those who incite hatred to cause violence. I'm sure many of these rioters are talking amongst themselves in social media and have written down their intention to cause trouble. Okay, they use coded language from what my friends tell me but repeated offenders need to be highlighted and arrested. You can correct me on this point but don't rioters always participate in violent activities in other parts of HK? 

I can understand your reasoning that 2047 will problem to the next generation. However, the Chinese want to make sure their interests are protected. This behavior is natural from all big states from a political standpoint. I agree HK was guaranteed the Basic Law. But don't you agree by bringing in changes slowly society can become accustomed to changes in 2047? Remember this will be a big radical shift. 

In regards to India revoking article 370, the situation is different. The majority of the people in Kashmir never supported the idea of joining India. The decision was taken by the King of Kashmir who was a Hindu in a majority Muslim state. The UN had the mandate to hold a plebiscite in the region for the people to decide who they wanted to join (Pakistan, India or Independence). India has failed to deliver on this mandate. To appease certain leaders of Kashmir they introduced article 370 in 1954. India shouldn't have changed article 370 because it was enshrined in their Constitution by one of their founding fathers (Nehru). It was supposed to last forever under Indian Constitutional Law. I am personally glad to hear this was revoked. The mainstream Kashmiri leadership now knows they should have supported Pakistan instead of India and a true uprising will begin. What is the difference between article 370 and the Basic Law? One has a termination date of 50 years and the other was supposed to last forever. I don't disagree with your point that the Basic Law should be protected. But I am trying to make you understand the fears of the Chinese Govt. Their action plan in HK was an experiment according to my friend. The real target was to show Taiwan how reunification is possible. I don't know how that could work out but that was his belief.

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## vi-va

Rasengan said:


> I agree troublemakers don't follow all the rules. But in China, the Govt has an interesting relationship with the Triads. They are allowed to operate under a rule based system that doesn't interfere with governance. In the case of Hong Kong, the actions of the Triads are counterproductive to the Chinese cause. We both know people in Hong Kong weren't impressed with the train incident. One day, that young man kneeling on the floor who was begging for relief will be an icon if a film producer puts that into a movie. What I am trying to advocate in my post, the Chinese can easily stop the Triads. Thus, these attackers aren't in fact Triads but normal indigenous civilians of HK who are supporters of Beijing and have used violence to win their cause. Essentially I also call them rioters from the opposite side of the argument. In your opinion is there merit in this argument or is it hogwash? Aren't there four main Triad factions in HK? Plus are they all on the side of the Govt? I have heard rival factions are on different sides in particular when we saw the umbrella movement. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me, brother.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, if the white shirts were active when the protest movement wasn't at its peak in terms of counter-violence then the black police wouldn't have been needed to subdue the protest. There is some logic around that assumption brother. I have seen a video where the protestors after the train incident have beaten up a white shirt. The overwhelming number of protestors would have made it impossible to use white shirts. This was probably the main reason they had to call up the black police to reinforce the HK police. I agree nobody can prove any of it, so it remains a conjecture.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree to forge a Govt ID is extremely difficult in most developed societies because there are systems in place to safeguard the institution. Otherwise, any Tom, Dick and Harry (British phrase) can infiltrate and cause mischief. Further, I also concur with your argument that a report ID and a Govt ID (Medic is part of the civil service) are two different things so we can't judge them the same when it comes to forgery. A person is just asking for trouble if they are caught with a fake Medic ID. I think the other side (supporters of Beijing) have used this argument of claiming protestors are claiming to be Medics to escape police justice.
> 
> But I have one problem with the concerns of the police. Okay, they have a hunch the Medical personnel they have apprehended is a phony. Why in the case of your mother did they take 3 hours to release them? At most, it should have taken them 10 mins to verify them as legitimate Medics. They could have taken your mother to the hospital and questioned the staff there. I find the action of the police here irresponsible.
> 
> I agree 10 people will give you 10 different answers to this question. Its difficult to call someone a fake Medic when they are endorsed by the Union. This clearly demonstrates to me why the HK Govt has loss the narrative and is held in contempt by the people. They only have themselves to blame. Carrie Lam needs to do the right thing and resign. I will always support the idea of HK belonging to China but they must govern better to win the hearts and minds of the people.
> 
> 
> 
> It would make sense to put the Black policeman at the frontline and not give them the task of booking protestors. But there have been irregularities in HK policing in recent times such as in the case of your mother. This suggests to me they are overlapping their duties inside HK. Obviously, this is conjecture on my part. I have no evidence to prove such a scenario and my friend is duty-bound to keep secrets of his department. I would have lectured him if he didn't stick to his duty regardless of if I wanted to know the answer to this question. I hope they aren't booking people and secretly renditioning them to China. That would break the public's trust.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree you cannot arrest people before they have committed a crime. However, in the UK the police can arrest those who incite hatred to cause violence. I'm sure many of these rioters are talking amongst themselves in social media and have written down their intention to cause trouble. Okay, they use coded language from what my friends tell me but repeated offenders need to be highlighted and arrested. You can correct me on this point but don't rioters always participate in violent activities in other parts of HK?
> 
> I can understand your reasoning that 2047 will problem to the next generation. However, the Chinese want to make sure their interests are protected. This behavior is natural from all big states from a political standpoint. I agree HK was guaranteed the Basic Law. But don't you agree by bringing in changes slowly society can become accustomed to changes in 2047? Remember this will be a big radical shift.
> 
> In regards to India revoking article 370, the situation is different. The majority of the people in Kashmir never supported the idea of joining India. The decision was taken by the King of Kashmir who was a Hindu in a majority Muslim state. The UN had the mandate to hold a plebiscite in the region for the people to decide who they wanted to join (Pakistan, India or Independence). India has failed to deliver on this mandate. To appease certain leaders of Kashmir they introduced article 370 in 1954. India shouldn't have changed article 370 because it was enshrined in their Constitution by one of their founding fathers (Nehru). It was supposed to last forever under Indian Constitutional Law. I am personally glad to hear this was revoked. The mainstream Kashmiri leadership now knows they should have supported Pakistan instead of India and a true uprising will begin. What is the difference between article 370 and the Basic Law? One has a termination date of 50 years and the other was supposed to last forever. I don't disagree with your point that the Basic Law should be protected. But I am trying to make you understand the fears of the Chinese Govt. Their action plan in HK was an experiment according to my friend. The real target was to show Taiwan how reunification is possible. I don't know how that could work out but that was his belief.


Good observation. yes, your friend is right, that's tricky part.

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## ARMalik

So there was a news here in Australia that HK protesters were singing US National Anthem!!  .... Now I don't now if this is true or not, but seriously China really needs to get hold of the situation quickly. It is getting beyond a joke that China cannot take care of these foreign back terroris.ts in HK.


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## Brainsucker

ARMalik said:


> So there was a news here in Australia that HK protesters were singing US National Anthem!!  .... Now I don't now if this is true or not, but seriously China really needs to get hold of the situation quickly. It is getting beyond a joke that China cannot take care of these foreign back terroris.ts in HK.



It is an old news already.


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## Hamartia Antidote




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## Hamartia Antidote




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## Hamartia Antidote

https://apnews.com/69fbc0433bae4dc7a838173ee7f45c55

*The people sing: ‘Les Mis’ soothes, breaks Hong Kong hearts*

For Hong Kong spectators mentally and physically drained from six months of pro-democracy protests that have convulsed the city, a rousing performance of “Les Miserables” proved almost too much to bear.

Audience members wept, dabbing their eyes with handkerchiefs, big tears rolling down their cheeks, as a Hong Kong theater troupe aiming to both comfort and re-energize emotionally battered spectators belted out the rousing musical based on Victor Hugo’s classic tale of rebellion in 19th century France.

Audience members said images from the protests flashed through their minds as they soaked up the free outdoor performance on Tuesday night.

The crowd several hundred strong joined with the troupe in singing “Do You Hear the People Sing?” — the stirring lyrics eloquently putting to words what many Hong Kong protesters feel.

“It is the music of a people who will not be slaves again!” they sang. “Will you join in our crusade? Who will be strong and stand with me?”

The amateur troupe, dressed in black, which has become the color of protest in Hong Kong, is made up of volunteers who responded to an online appeal for singers and musicians.

Singer Harriet Chung said their aim is to tour the show to all 18 of Hong Kong’s districts. Tuesday’s performance was the troupe’s third, staged in a park in Tai Po in the New Territories that are north of Hong Kong Island and Kowloon and which butt up against mainland China.

“It is a very powerful work that everyone needs in such a time in Hong Kong,” Chung said. “There’s a lot of violence. There’s a lot of injustice around. But this piece is about love and power and what you can do for love, for your ideals, for your ideas, so that is why we want to pass this message to everyone in Hong Kong.”

With no costumes and minimalist lighting, the show lacks the big-ticket stagecraft of Hollywood, Broadway and London West End cousins but packs a powerful emotional punch in the febrile atmosphere of anti-government protest in Hong Kong.

Wiping away tears that welled behind his glasses, red-eyed spectator Herman Tang said the song “Bring Him Home” made him think of protesters who were trapped by a police siege of a university campus last month.

“Very moved,” he said. “Some of the words in the song echo the current situation in Hong Kong.”

Organizers made booklets of the lyrics, in Chinese and English, for spectators to download onto their cellphones so they could sing along. Audience members waved lit phones in the air during songs, creating a tapestry of lights. At the end, the troupe and the audience, accompanied by the orchestra, joined in a hair-raising rendition of “Glory to Hong Kong,” an anonymously penned anthemthat has become the protest movement’s signature song.

Chung, the singer who works as a writer in her day job, said she’s long been a fan of “Les Miserables,” but that it strikes an especially deep chord now.

“It’s like pictures after pictures of happenings in Hong Kong passing through my mind when I sing the lyrics. Sometimes it’s heartbreaking. Sometimes it’s heartwarming,” she said. “There are pictures of protests, police violence, and the life we have lost, the brothers and sisters we lost in this movement, so it is a very emotional journey and I can feel that from the audience, too.”

Spectators who came to the show worried that the protest movement is flagging as it enters a seventh month went away feeling energized and sounding recommitted to a long-haul struggle. The movement is pushing five key demands, including full elections for Hong Kong’s legislature and leader and a probe of the city’s police force, which has fired 26,000 tear-gas and rubber-baton rounds at protesters and arrested more than 6,000people.

“When people unite together, there is power,” said audience member Yan Chan. “We have energy and power to make Hong Kong better.”



@Vergennes

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## JSCh

*Hong Kong police offer HK$800,000 reward for information to find killer of cleaner hit by brick during clash between protesters and Sheung Shui residents*

Bounty is the highest offered by police on a list of reward notices on the force’s website
Victim Luo Changqing, 70, was taking pictures when fight broke out between two groups outside North District Town Hall


...

Hong Kong police offer HK$800,000 reward for information to find killer of cleaner hit by brick during clash between protesters and Sheung Shui residents | South China Morning Post


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## JSCh

*Five teens arrested over death of man hit by brick - RTHK*
2019-12-14 HKT 04:15

Police on Friday arrested three males and two females, aged between 15 and 18, in connection with the death of a 70-year-old man, who died after allegedly being hit by a brick in Sheung Shui last month.

The incident happened outside 2, Lung Wan Street.

In a statement, police said the teenagers had been arrested in Sheung Shui and Tai Po on suspicion of murder, taking part in a riot and wounding.

All five remain in police detention.

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## Hamartia Antidote




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## DavidsSling




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## gangsta_rap

What are the protesting about again?


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## JSCh

*Man burned by protesters still in recovery*
Sunday, December 15, 2019, 16:53By chinadailyhk.com




This photo taken from the official Facebook page of lawmaker Elizabeth Quat Pui-fan shows Lee Chi-cheung's hands still covered with heavy gauze following the November arson attack by rioters.

HONG KONG - The man who was set on fire by *radical protesters* in November is recovering after three skin grafts, according to the lawmaker Elizabeth Quat Pui-fan.

Lee Chi-cheung, 57, was involved in an argument with protesters who went about on a rampage of vandalism in the Ma On Shan train station on Nov 11. One of the protesters poured flammable liquid on Lee and set him alight with a cigarette lighter.

*ALSO READ: **Backlash growing after shocking violence*​
*According to Lee's wife, the transplant of two-thirds of the skin in the burned area was successful*

Lee was sent to hospital in critical condition with burns to 40 percent of his body. 

When Quat visited Lee in hospital on Saturday, Lee was able to sit up and walk a few steps. According to a photo posted by Quat at her social media page, both Lee’s hands are covered with heavy gauze while patches of new skins and burn marks showed on his face. 

Lee thanked the public for caring for him. 

*READ MORE: **Arson attack on citizen 'shocking' and 'insane'*​
Lee told Quat his ordeal was far from over. He felt itchy all over the burnt area but he was told not to scratch which could cause new injuries. He could still feel the pain every time the nurse changed the gauze covering his wounds. But he said he was hopeful that he would get well soon.

According to Lee's wife, the transplant of two-thirds of the skin in the burned area was successful. But Lee is still weak and is afraid of the cold. Quat said the doctor has no plan to perform another skin graft operation on Lee.

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## bbccdd1470

I'm just tired to post and counter one sided video, this was what happened in the mall yesterday. Yes this video only contains Chinese language since this is hard to find english version video that would cover the causes (as usual damaging public and private properties, violating people freedom of movement, bullying and beating) of the so called "police brutality on protestors". This video is from some would call "pro-China" side video but I don't agree with that since when does anti-riot become only Pro-China but not also Pro-HK.

Another one:

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## Hamartia Antidote

https://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...g-girl-13-who-burned-chinese-flag-out-impulse

*Hong Kong girl, 13, who burned Chinese flag ‘out of impulse’ during protest gets 12 months’ probation*

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## Itachi

Angry Easterling said:


> What are the protesting about again?



The Extradition Bill....which would have given China more authority over Hong Kongers....it's obviously much more than that too....not many in Hong Kong like China interfering in HK affairs.

Except for Sinophiles here on PDF, everyone knows how the Chinese act in relation to basic human rights.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Itachi said:


> The Extradition Bill....which would have given China more authority over Hong Kongers....it's obviously much more than that too....not many in Hong Kong like China interfering in HK affairs.
> 
> Except for Sinophiles here on PDF, everyone knows how the Chinese act in relation to basic human rights.



President of Taiwan:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1191624997028057088

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## Hamartia Antidote

more biased Eastern Media






*A 13-year-old Hong Kong protester shares his story*


Russian Ruptly kicking China in the groin again




*Hong Kong: Hundreds of protesters condemn "totalitarian government"*





*Hong Kong: Protesters march to international embassies to seek support for human rights*


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## bbccdd1470

I don't really think foreigners will care what have truly happened in HK this half year, but I just post this video for people that have been followed the HK riots since the beginning. This video only covers what the western media intentionally omit or hardly mention in their news in this half year (of course this is in Chinese as you already know why). Pay attention that the violence has been started since the first protest at June 9th (As most Media only focus on police brutality, but hardly talk about violence against *Police* and innocent people) .


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## Rasengan

bbccdd1470 said:


> I don't really think foreigners will care what have truly happened in HK this half year, but I just post this video for people that have been followed the HK riots since the beginning. This video only covers what the western media intentionally omit or hardly mention in their news in this half year (of course this is in Chinese as you already know why). Pay attention that the violence has been started since the first protest at June 9th (As most Media only focus on police brutality, but hardly talk about violence against *Police* and innocent people) .



I hope 2020 brings more stability to the streets of HK.

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## bbccdd1470

Rasengan said:


> I hope 2020 brings more stability to the streets of HK.


You hardly see any meaningful news in this post and I lost interest to post news here since most outsiders don't care. The violence and vandalism have started again, also police have found bomb and *guns* (yes real gun like AR 15). Crimes have raised rapidly these few months, especially robbery where in a case one security guard got killed (this is uncommon in HK since the late 90s, that a criminal would aggressively assault a person during robbery where IMO some HK people are now getting more violence.)

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## Rasengan

bbccdd1470 said:


> You hardly see any meaningful news in this post and I lost interest to post news here since most outsiders don't care. The violence and vandalism have started again, also police have found bomb and *guns* (yes real gun like AR 15). Crimes have raised rapidly these few months, especially robbery where in a case one security guard got killed (this is uncommon in HK since the late 90s, that a criminal would aggressively assault a person during robbery where IMO some HK people are now getting more violence.)



Brother you must continue to post news. You are holding the banner of HK and mustn't let the enemy win the narrative. Some people on this forum aren't interested to know the true reality of HK because of their bias against the Chinese Govt. But there are genuine members in this forum who want to know what's happening. 

Law and order is very important brother without it even an educated society like HK will spiral into chaos. The increase in crime rate and the increase in vandalism will have a negative effect on HK tourism. The sad reality is these people don't even realize what they are destroying. How the hell are weapons such as an AR-15 is being smuggled into HK? The security forces need to do much better.

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## KungFuLee

Rasengan said:


> Brother you must continue to post news. You are holding the banner of HK and mustn't let the enemy win the narrative. Some people on this forum aren't interested to know the true reality of HK because of their bias against the Chinese Govt. But there are genuine members in this forum who want to know what's happening.
> 
> Law and order is very important brother without it even an educated society like HK will spiral into chaos. The increase in crime rate and the increase in vandalism will have a negative effect on HK tourism. The sad reality is these people don't even realize what they are destroying. How the hell are weapons such as an AR-15 is being smuggled into HK? The security forces need to do much better.









Notice that the raiding party is Organise Crime and Triad Bureau (OCTB) form the Hong Kong Police Force but not Major Crime Squad, the weapon found is highly likely belong to criminal organisation (ie Triad), more likely than not the weapon were related Triad activities rather than riot, such as armed robbery. Of course the pro-government fraction would want people to think it was related to the riot. Or else people are saying an average student have the reach to smuggle firearm into Hong Kong?

Also, the reason why the riot have started again is because the government started to clamp down on people again, making arrest. In some cases, they arrested the victim of a crime, for example, there were this incident when a Taxi ram over the road toward a few protestor, the Taxi Driver seriously hurting one of the protestor (I think she suffer from compound fracture) and the Taxi Driver was pulled out of his taxi and was beaten. The Police arrest the people who beat the taxi driver, arrested the girl that the taxi drier ran over, and let the taxi driver go.

Arrest like this and still no sign of Independent Police Oversight Committee were the reason violence flare up again.


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## bbccdd1470

Rasengan said:


> Brother you must continue to post news. You are holding the banner of HK and mustn't let the enemy win the narrative. Some people on this forum aren't interested to know the true reality of HK because of their bias against the Chinese Govt. But there are genuine members in this forum who want to know what's happening.
> 
> Law and order is very important brother without it even an educated society like HK will spiral into chaos. The increase in crime rate and the increase in vandalism will have a negative effect on HK tourism. The sad reality is these people don't even realize what they are destroying. How the hell are weapons such as an AR-15 is being smuggled into HK? The security forces need to do much better.


Read the news here:
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...-police-seize-weapons-including-handgun-ahead
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...ng-police-foil-armed-robbery-which-live-round

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## jamal18

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Hamartia Antidote

Rasengan said:


> Brother you must continue to post news. You are holding the banner of HK and mustn't let the enemy win the narrative. Some people on this forum aren't interested to know the true reality of HK because of their bias against the Chinese Govt. But there are genuine members in this forum who want to know what's happening.
> 
> Law and order is very important brother without it even an educated society like HK will spiral into chaos. The increase in crime rate and the increase in vandalism will have a negative effect on HK tourism. The sad reality is these people don't even realize what they are destroying. How the hell are weapons such as an AR-15 is being smuggled into HK? The security forces need to do much better.



Almost every video and story I post here is from the Hong Kong Press. If you think they are the enemy in their reporting then you need some serious soul-searching.


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## Rasengan

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Almost every video and story I post here is from the Hong Kong Press. If you think they are the enemy in their reporting then you need some serious soul-searching.



Shall I give you a pat on the head I have friends from both sides of the argument including those who participate in the protest. People who use violence are the enemies of HK so I don't need to soul search as the answer lies in front of me.

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## JSCh

JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1201028568332959750


*Hong Kong protests: three people arrested for hitting man over the head with drain cover while he was clearing roadblocks*

Two charged with assisting assault and attempted unlawful assembly, while one charged with attempted assault and attempted unlawful assembly
Trio, aged between 33 and 34, were arrested separately in Ap Lei Chau, Tsuen Wan and Central, based on surveillance footage a month after incident

....

Hong Kong protests: three people arrested for hitting man over the head with drain cover while he was clearing roadblocks | South China Morning Post

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## Hamartia Antidote




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## Haris Ali2140

Hey look what I found. Something to ponder on for CCP:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212930492191801345


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## KungFuLee

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Hey look what I found. Something to ponder on for CCP:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212930492191801345



First of all, the protest is on CCP, if going by this logic, anyone have to assassinate by Hong Kong, that would be the Chinese Leader. 

Second of all, you can try and assassinate Trump, I think people will be glad if he was "Remove" from the office, if you know what I meant.


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## Hamartia Antidote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_trading_in_Hong_Kong

*Parallel trading in Hong Kong* is the phenomenon of China parallel traders taking advantage of multiple entry visa policy to import goods from Hong Kong to Mainland China, causing shortages of household goods in various locations


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## Hamartia Antidote

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/01/...ndma-wong-reportedly-awaiting-trial-shenzhen/

*Inside the big cage’: Hong Kong protester ‘Grandma Wong’ reportedly awaiting trial in Shenzhen*

A well-known Hong Kong protester who disappeared from the city last August has reportedly told local media that she is facing criminal proceedings over the border in Shenzhen.

Alexandra Wong, 63, was frequently spotted at anti-extradition bill protests last summer where she would wave a large Union Jack. She was last seen in Hong Kong on August 11 when she was surrounded by riot police outside Tai Koo MTR station.


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## rott

No Chinese is interested in what's going on in HongKong.  I've just come in now and had a glance at the thread.


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## Hamartia Antidote

*Beijing and Hong Kong protesters react to Tsai Ing-wen’s win in Taiwan presidential election*


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## Hamartia Antidote




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## ARMalik

Hamartia Antidote said:


>



Interesting - looks like several different clips have been used to produce this. The first few clips look "staged".


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## fisher1



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## TruthHurtz

Good.

Fvck those whiny little CIA cultist brats, they brought this upon themselves.

All over a bill to extradite murderers to face prosecution in their respective authorities.

Also lol at this yellow fever moron posting anti-China content while living in China

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## Clutch

Why is there hypocrisy in the West when it comes to Hong Kong and Kashmir??

Kashmir is an even more critical issue... But two very different responses. While China is not killing Hong Kong-ers while India is actually murdering Kashmiris???

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## Dil Pakistan

The correct title of the thread wiil be:

"China just brought EU economies under control"

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

fisher1 said:


>






How did they destroy it? Where is the destruction?

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## Clutch

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> How did they destroy it? Where is the destruction?



It's Western manipulation of the facts to suit their agenda.

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## Mugen

Correct me if I am wrong but does the OP post against Indian atrocities in Kashmir just the same or does he only care about what happens in China?

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## beijingwalker

In 1989 they claimed that China just destroyed Beijing.


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## Daniel808

Meanwhile in HK, Silent majority finally stood up.
With only 3 days, almost 2 million HK people sign petition supporting National Security legislation 

*Over 1.85 mln Hong Kong residents, including HKSAR chief executive, sign petition supporting national security legislation*
Source:Xinhua Published: 2020/5/28 23:42:10





*Hong Kong residents sign their names on Friday in support of the Hong Kong national security law. A draft decision of the law was submitted to China's top legislature on Friday. Photo: cnsphoto*


More than 1.85 million Hong Kong residents, including Chief Executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) Carrie Lam, have signed a petition in support of the national security legislation as of Thursday.

The petition was launched on Sunday by a newly established organization named United Front Supporting National Security Legislation and could be participated both online and through street stands across Hong Kong.

Lam visited one of the street stands and signed the petition on Thursday.

"Safeguarding national security is the responsibility of everyone and bears on our daily life," she said at the street stand, expressing hope that the national security legislation will help Hong Kong restore stability and then revitalize the economy.

Major officials of the HKSAR government have also signed the petition to show support for the legislation.

Deputies to the 13th National People's Congress (NPC) attending the closing meeting of its third annual session on Thursday voted overwhelmingly to approve the NPC Decision on Establishing and Improving the Legal System and Enforcement Mechanisms for the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region to Safeguard National Security.

United Front Supporting National Security Legislation, jointly initiated by thousands of people and hundreds of groups representing various sectors in the Hong Kong community, welcomed the national legislature's decision.

National security legislation has become the consensus of the Hong Kong community and is highly anticipated by the public, the spokesperson of the organization said, calling on more Hong Kong residents to participate in the petition, which will continue until May 31.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1189882.shtml

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## Daniel808

In only 2 days they send National guards in to minnesota, meanwhile in HK already a year and still they cannot have National Law  American logic



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266044693542064128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265908682665029632

Meanwhile in US of A, the police keep killing their African american people.

I support all Black american against White supremacist regime  Freedom for all americans

All the best for all freedom fighters in Minnesota.

Los Angeles join too

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265925829919416322










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266241285280546820

The condition in Minneapolis is very bad right now

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266243090433490944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266149755509325825

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266228541047189505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266037955027709952
#Black lives matter

When your country have a thirsty bloody guy as a leader like this
 Shooting the protesters, Crazy !





The lost of Press Freedom in US of A

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266236086780493828

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266191389303418885
Meanwhile in HK, silent majority finally stand up against those rioters


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265971740074627072
Like those Anti-China trolls in here, hypocrite

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266262228170227714

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## Daniel808

HK police is too mild compare with Police in America.
If this happen in US, those rioters nose already bloody at least

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265656606441668608

This is really disgusting ! just look the face of that white police from 2.00 to 9.00. He is enjoying it 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265486132600541186


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## Han Patriot

HK looks like puppies compared to this. When are we gonna sanction the Governor of Minnesota? And sanction the office of the National Guard, the police chief. Start a human rights tribunal, introduce a law. Lol

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## zhxy

This is the mistake of white. In the past, they forced many African slaves to come to America. Racial diversity is not good for a nation

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## Daniel808

Han Patriot said:


> HK looks like puppies compared to this. When are we gonna sanction the Governor of Minnesota? And sanction the office of the National Guard, the police chief. Start a human rights tribunal, introduce a law. Lol



Not only that, we need to sanction their mad president too. Imagine that, the president even suppported to shooting the protestors.
China need to pass the law to protect African American community rights !


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266222119676977155When US police shoot tear gas, its to control riots, when HK police do the same that's called Brutality act and Human right abuser  American Govt logic
What your opinion guys against this double standard?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265681332002152449


zhxy said:


> This is the mistake of white. In the past, they forced many African slaves to come to America. Racial diversity is not good for a nation



We need to support african american rights against racist government and official

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## Han Patriot

I wonder where are the cheerleaders? This shit makes Hongkies look like puppies.

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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266937503690493953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267018483717386241

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## Pakistani Fighter

China needs to choke India


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## fisher1

striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266937503690493953
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267018483717386241



These Chinese hypocrites have the gall to criticise America over one incident.

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## Globenim

lol hypocrite American bootlickers sure are mad their little HK terrorists get no attention anymore because they cant beat hours of footage of Americans getting beaten, shot and run over by brutal American military and police with their same old crappy edited and cut videos of terrorist whining and playing victim after they have been caught by some HK officer.

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## Beast

fisher1 said:


> These Chinese hypocrites have the gall to criticise America over one incident.


LOL.. You even fit to use the word "Hyprocrites" ?

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## flowerfan2020

striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266937503690493953
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267018483717386241


No one will buy you except few clown here because the whole world watching the hottest movies in U.S.

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## Han Patriot

fisher1 said:


> These Chinese hypocrites have the gall to criticise America over one incident.


So US is now so low, it can be equated with China... Hahahahahaah



striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266937503690493953
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267018483717386241


Hello, we are authoratarian, why are you even comparing with us? Did anyone die in HK?

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## Beast

striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266937503690493953
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267018483717386241


LOL.. This kind of poor propaganda can only fool those low IQ.

First of all, Kneel on neck by police is a legal moves taught by all police force but you only use it on a criminal violent struggle against police. You can see from 2 video the two HongKonger violent resist Police arrest.

If anybody watch George Flyord video, he never even struggle from from point one until his death. While the brutal police decide to use kneel neck restrict on a suspect who never resist. This is called Brutality.

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## riscol

Not even low intelligence would fall for it. That is why there is protest in Europe because many of us know this is bloody murder. Nobody in Europe were protesting against Hong Kong police last year.

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## lonelyman

fisher1 said:


> These Chinese hypocrites have the gall to criticise America over one incident.


 One incident?

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## Village life

Ok go to America and breath freely


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## antonius123

striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266937503690493953
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267018483717386241





fisher1 said:


> These Chinese hypocrites have the gall to criticise America over one incident.

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## vi-va

striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266937503690493953
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267018483717386241


I don't know where those video taken, I don't understand what they are saying. but the gangster in the video crying like a bi*tch got whipped.

At least behave like a grown up man, not like a bi*tch.

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## bbccdd1470

The first video is not speaking Cantonese, the uniform looks different and HK beat cops use revolver where the gun in the video looks like the handgun to me. The second video is BS, like Beat said Kneel on neck by police is a legal moves and as you could see the police only kneel on neck when arresting the suspect and once the suspect is arrested, they stops kneeling unlike Derek Chauvin who kneeled on the George Floyd's neck for nine minutes long.

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## beijingwalker

*US may take in Hongkongers ahead of China security laws, Pompeo suggests*

Secretary of state says he is considering immigration option similar to move announced last week by UK

Mon 1 Jun 2020 23.57 EDTLast modified on Tue 2 Jun 2020 00.47 EDT

The US is considering letting people who no longer “feel comfortable” in Hong Kong move to the US, secretary of state Mike Pompeo has suggested.

The comments, made in a conversation with the American Enterprise Institute on Friday, come amid worsening relations between the two countries over China’s moves to impose national security laws on the semi-autonomous region.

Pompeo was asked if the US would follow the UK and offer some sort of “right of abode” to people who no longer feel comfortable in Hong Kong.

The hosts asked: “Are we going to consider that as a possibility to make the United States welcome Hong Kong people to come here and bring their entrepreneurial creativity to our country?”

Pompeo said the US was “considering it”.

“I don’t know precisely how it will play out. The British have, as you know, a different relationship. A lot of these folks have British national passports. There’s a long history between Hong Kong and the United Kingdom; it’s very different. But we’re taking a look at it.”

Pompeo said the US held out hope the Chinese Communist party would reverse its push for greater control over Hong Kong and move back in line with its international commitments.

“But in the event that they don’t go in that direction, which is, I think, the more likely case given what we’ve seen them do over the past several weeks, the United States is going to impose a cost on the decision-makers who deny this freedom to the people of Hong Kong.”

Last week, the UK Home Office widened the pool of Hong Kong citizens eligible to apply for UK citizenship, implying millions may be able to apply if China presses ahead with the security legislation. UK home secretary Priti Patel said the UK would continue to defend the rights and freedoms of the people of Hong Kong.

Announcements by the US president Donald Trump that he would revoke Hong Kong’s special status under customs law has provoked anger in mainland China and Hong Kong.

On Monday Reuters reported the Chinese government had ordered state-owned firms to stop large-scale purchases of pork and soybean products from the US, and that cotton and corn purchases had been put on hold.

In a worst-case scenario, if Trump continues to target China, Beijing will scrap the the first phase of their trade deal, a second source familiar with the government plan told Reuters. “There’s no way Beijing can buy goods from the US when receiving constant attacks from Trump,” the person said.

The move mirrored decisions last month to place tariffs on Australian barley and restrictions on Australian abattoirs during a diplomatic spat. The Chinese government denied it was retaliatory, although state media suggested otherwise.

On Tuesday Hong Kong’s chief executive, Carrie Lam, said Trump’s plan was self-defeating. “These acts would only hurt themselves and not benefit anybody.”

She said there were 1,300 American businesses in Hong Kong, accounting for one fifth of stock market transactions, which received preferential treatment with access to the mainland Chinese market.

She accused the US of double standards in sanctioning Hong Kong over the national security laws, which the Hong Kong government supported.

“You know there are riots in the US and you see how local governments reacted. Then in Hong Kong when we had similar riots we all saw what position they adopted then.”

Lam and her government have repeatedly characterised the Hong Kong protests as riots. She has supported Beijing imposing the laws because Hong Kong has not been able to in 23 years, and is unlikely to in the near future.

Hong Kong’s elections are scheduled for September, and the government is in danger of losing its majority to pro-democracy candidates. On Tuesday the South China Morning Post reported a record 401,900 people had registered to vote in the past year.

Chinese officials and media have also seized on news of the protestssweeping the US to defend its actions in Hong Kong and accuse Washington of hypocrisy.

On Monday China’s ambassador to London denied his country was suppressing pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong. “What is going on in Hong Kong is violence,” Liu Xiaoming said. “It is a risk to the national security ... any responsible government has to take measures.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-ahead-of-china-security-laws-pompeo-suggests


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## beijingwalker

Good riddence, just kick out those traitors to US and UK will save us from a lot of trouble.

Let those Hong kong rioters go and set fire and trash stores in US and UK instead of Hong kong.

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## Musings

beijingwalker said:


> Good riddence, just kick out those traitors to US and UK will save us from a lot of trouble.
> 
> Let those Hong kong rioters go and set fire and trash stores in US and UK instead of Hong kong.



Basically if you got loads of money that they can "steal" they will ask them to come. 
Who in their right minds would want to go to Trumps USA?

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## bbccdd1470

beijingwalker said:


> Good riddence, just kick out those traitors to US and UK will save us from a lot of trouble.
> 
> Let those Hong kong rioters go and set fire and trash stores in US and UK instead of Hong kong.

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## beijingwalker

Please take them all.

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## tower9

beijingwalker said:


> Good riddence, just kick out those traitors to US and UK will save us from a lot of trouble.
> 
> Let those Hong kong rioters go and set fire and trash stores in US and UK instead of Hong kong.



Obviously these HKers would never riot in the US. I think they would face a harsh reality check though in terms of their place in society and how Chinese they really are.


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## Mista

beijingwalker said:


> Good riddence, just kick out those traitors to US and UK will save us from a lot of trouble.
> 
> Let those Hong kong rioters go and set fire and trash stores in US and UK instead of Hong kong.



The thing is, only the rich or talented are eligible to emigrate, leaving those 'traitors' behind in HK.


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## ChennaiDude

Musings said:


> Basically if you got loads of money that they can "steal" they will ask them to come.
> Who in their right minds would want to go to Trumps USA?


Trumps USA ends in Nov 2020.


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## thewayoftheworld

They'll learn to appreciate their roots once they encounter discrimination from Americans. However, knowing the West, it is all fluff. To be accepted, you probably need to have asset north $1M. LMAO. It is how the West robs developing countries of their wealth.

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## bbccdd1470

thewayoftheworld said:


> They'll learn to appreciate their roots once they encounter discrimination from Americans. However, knowing the West, it is all fluff. To be accepted, you probably need to have asset north $1M. LMAO. It is how the West robs developing countries of their wealth.


We all know that is a false hope or just mouth service for those rioters, the wealthy and eligible one already have the mean to migrate (Also they are smart enough not to break any laws since in order to migrate they need a clean record). Moreover, over 60% who were arrested are students where almost all of them do not have a BNO to begin with. We called those rioters as "Condom", as you can see why.

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## eldamar

Musings said:


> Basically if you got loads of money that they can "steal" they will ask them to come.
> Who in their right minds would want to go to Trumps USA?


They like the Chinese, becos they know they r productive people who r not likely to cause trouble


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## mmr

Hong kong ppl will come to Vancouver. its been favorite long before all this happened. I believe there are over 300k Canadian passport holders live in hongkong.

We have investor program and many hong kong rich ppl already take benefit of it in late 90s and early 20s.

Its good for British Columbia economy.


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## Safriz

USA should first take in their own black people who's lives are still worthless after living with whites for 300 years.


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## zectech

beijingwalker said:


> Please take them all.



Elect them to high office in the US, make them Senators and Congressmen. Let them learn how evil the US first hand when everything in the US is about oppressing others, hating thy neighbor and bombing 3rd world countries.


----------



## Nan Yang

*Hong Kong protests: one year on, with the national security law looming, has the anti-government movement lost?*

As Hong Kong marks a year after the anti-government movement began, we launch a new series analysing how key players have fared since the June 9 mass rally, when an estimated 1 million people took to the streets to protest the now-withdrawn extradition bill
In this first instalment, Jeffie Lam looks at the future of a movement beaten into retreat by a pandemic and looming national security law
Jeffie Lam

Fourteen-year-old Chak-lam arrived at Admiralty at 8am on May 27 and found herself all alone.

She had heard the call, the night before, for protesters to besiege Hong Kong’s Legislative Council and block lawmakers from scrutinising the national anthem bill that would penalise anyone who misused or insulted _March of the Volunteers_.

Instead of black-clad demonstrators, the area was swarming with police officers who allowed only authorised staff and journalists through checkpoints.

The tight security cordon was nothing like the scene almost a year ago on June 12, 2019, when thousands of protesters blocked roads and surrounded Legco to disrupt deliberations on another piece of unpopular legislation, the extradition bill which would have sent fugitives to mainland China.






Hong Kong marks a year since the anti-government movement began. Illustration: Brian Wang

The tight security cordon was nothing like the scene almost a year ago on June 12, 2019, when thousands of protesters blocked roads and surrounded Legco to disrupt deliberations on another piece of unpopular legislation, the extradition bill which would have sent fugitives to mainland China.

The mostly young activists succeeded in stopping the sitting, after clashing with police and hurling bricks and projectiles amid clouds of tear gas, in an episode that marked the start of months of anti-government protests and violent confrontations.

But on May 27, Chak-lam, who was arrested last year and had since stayed away from the front lines, could not find other comrades. No one came up to her asking to join forces, like they would have done countless times before as protesters who only knew each other on Telegram would meet at designated places and organise themselves to wreak havoc weekend after weekend over the summer of 2019.

“I was disappointed but also relieved because I did not have to witness another round of clashes or mass arrests,” she said. “It’s a complicated feeling.”





Hongkongers take to the streets in the early days of the protests against the extradition bill. Photo: Sam Tsang

One year on, protesters are finding themselves at a crossroads, grappling with much that has changed in the pulse and purpose of their movement, and in the city itself. Their once formidable ranks have shrunk dramatically, the momentum lost.

Between last June and May 29 this year, police arrested 8,981 people aged between 11 and 84. Some 1,749 have been charged, including 100 who have been convicted. At least 13 have been jailed for between seven days and four years, for offences ranging from possession of offensive weapons in a public place to damaging property and rioting.

The stiffest punishment, a four-year jail term, went to a 22-year-old lifeguard
who pleaded guilty to a riot charge. He rammed police barricades and hurled objects at 
officers outside Legco that fateful day on June 12.

With the exception of a New Year’s Day mass protest, all their subsequent gatherings in 2020 have been small affairs quickly quashed by a more aggressive police force pursuing a pre-emptive strategy. The encrypted Telegram channels they created at the height of the movement still exist but the most active ones are not about protest strategy but help for those facing trial and jail time.
Along with the arrests, a new enemy appeared in January. The Covid-19 pandemic
effectively halted protest activity, as social-distancing measures were introduced to contain 
the new coronavirus.





Tables and chairs are taped for social-distancing measures at an eatery in Hong Kong. Photo: Nora Tam

As infections declined in recent weeks, protesters were regrouping and turning out again to demonstrate. But Beijing had another surprise in store. It dropped a bombshell in late May: it would impose a new national security law tailor-made for Hong Kong to “prevent, stop and punish” secessionist and subversive activities, terrorism and foreign interference in the city’s affairs.

The triple whammy of the arrests, virus, and a looming national security law has left protesters, politicians and observers seeing little likelihood of campaigns returning on the scale and intensity of last year.

“We have struggled for so long but I feel like we have achieved nothing,” said Kitty Fung, a 17-year-old student who went with three classmates to Causeway Bay on the afternoon of May 27 and saw many being arrested by police. When they arrived, about 80 people had already been detained. By day’s end, police had arrested 360 people at different locations.

Fung burst into tears as she recalled the afternoon: “We’ve lost more and more of our comrades.”





Clashes between protesters and police at PolyU were one of the most violent last year and represented a turning point in the movement. Photo: Sam Tsang

Police have so far banned most protests citing public health concerns, including the 
annual June 4 candlelight vigil at Victoria Park to mark the anniversary of the 
1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown in Beijing. The rules on social distancing because of the pandemic have made it easier for the force to stop and arrest anyone assembling in groups. 

“It seems it is no longer possible for us to do anything, unlike before,” Fung said. “I see no hope.”

*Beijing ups the ante*

Mid-November was a turning point for the protest movement as police lay siege to 
Polytechnic University for 13 days after one of the fiercest clashes with protesters who threw petrol bombs, flaming arrows and bricks.
A police armoured vehicle was set on fire and when officers moved in, more than 1,000 people were trapped inside. The movement had made a tactical mistake by abandoning one of its mantras: to “be water” and move quickly to elude capture.

Later that month, protesters and their supporters won a landslide victory at the 
district council elections that were seen as a referendum against the government. The opposition took hold of 17 out of 18 district councils as the pro-Beijing camp was shunted aside to lick its wounds and wonder if this was a foretaste of battles to come.

After the PolyU siege, street protests that often descended into violence and mayhem became fewer and fewer, a shift that coincided with new police chief Chris Tang Ping-keung taking the helm and pushing the force towards a more robust, pre-emptive strategy.

On New Year’s Day, police allowed a mass protest but by the end, after organisers estimated 1 million people showed up, officers also detained at least 400 people, one of the biggest cases of arrests in one day since the movement began.

The protests first began on a small scale last April in opposition to the extradition bill which people feared would erode their rights. But by June, it had grown into a mass movement, with an estimated 1 million people taking to the streets on June 9.

A week later, an estimated 2 million came out to demonstrate and in the ensuing weeks, demonstrations morphed into a wider anti-government movement with five demands: withdrawal of the bill, retraction on calling the June 12 clashes a riot, an independent inquiry into alleged police brutality, amnesty for those arrested and universal suffrage.





Protesters show the ‘five demands’ gesture on a New Year’s Day march. Photo: Sam Tsang

These calls were summed up in the slogan “five demands, not one less”. A year later, only one demand – the withdrawal of the bill – had been met. The Hong Kong government refused to entertain the other demands, saying the violence had to end first. Beijing, incensed by the anti-government and anti-mainland sentiments, did not send in the troops as many had feared.

Instead, it arranged for a change of leadership of those in charge of Hong Kong affairs, putting in new directors at the liaison office and the State Council’s Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office.

In April, both offices went on the offensive in a clear change of strategy, taking on the pan-democrat lawmakers and lambasting them repeatedly for filibustering to block scrutiny of the national anthem bill. In less than two months, business was done and the bill was passed on June 4.




Protesters in Causeway Bay hold up anti-China placards and posters against Carrie Lam. Photo: K.Y. Cheng

Still, few expected Beijing to unveil the national security law. Once passed by the national legislature, it will be included in Annex III of the Basic Law, which means it will take effect without having to go before the city’s lawmakers. And with that, mainland Chinese agents could operate in the city when needed, Beijing said.

The last time the Hong Kong government tried to enact its own national security legislation as mandated under Article 23 in the Basic Law, the city’s mini-constitution, was in 2003, but the plan was abandoned after an estimated half a million people took to the streets to oppose it.

“The national security law came all of a sudden. It totally caught me off guard,” Chak-lam said. Echoing other protesters the _Post_ interviewed, she said the resolution was akin to handing the movement and Hong Kong a death sentence.

“When I discussed the worst-case scenario with my friends, we were sure Beijing would not forcefully crack down on the protests by deploying the People’s Liberation Army,” the young pupil said. “But none of us thought they would introduce something harsher than Chinese troops.”

A protester in his late 20s, who only gave his name as Tom, said while his peers had contemplated the possibility of the Hong Kong government pushing ahead with Article 23, few predicted Beijing would impose the national security law on the city directly. It was a masterstroke few saw coming.

Dr Edmund Cheng Wai, a political scientist at City University who conducted field studies on last year’s protests, said the shock was partly because of young Hongkongers’ lack of understanding of the central government’s thinking and less still, their desire to learn about it.

*None of us thought they would introduce something harsher than Chinese troopsChak-lam, 14, student*

Even among university students, he said, courses on Chinese politics were unpopular. “Many thought Beijing would not do such a thing to Hong Kong, the financial lung of the country,” he said.

Cheng was pessimistic about the future of the movement for a mix of reasons, including the increased legal risks, protest fatigue, current social-distancing measures as well as the limited tangible achievements from last year’s confrontations.





Lawmaker Claudia Mo (bottom) takes photos of opposition lawmakers protesting the extradition bill last year. Photo: Felix Wong

Most importantly, he said, unlike previous controversies in which the Hong Kong government was the main target, the new law was being helmed by Beijing itself, with little involvement from the city’s administration.

“Unlike the extradition bill saga, people now do not see any possibility of the national security bill being scrapped,” he said. “They have no idea what they can still do.”

He said it depended on whether the circumstances would change if social-distancing rules were lifted.

Protesters the _Post_ approached confessed to feeling lost, despondent even, and said they needed to see how the new national security law would unfold before planning their next steps. For now, about the only idea they had to keep spirits up was to patronise protester-friendly restaurants and shops and enlarge the “yellow economic zone”
.




US President Donald Trump has vowed sanctions and removal of special trading privileges for Hong Kong over Beijing’s move to impose the national security law. Photo: AFP

*Collateral damage*
In 2020, Hong Kong also found itself caught in the middle of rapidly deteriorating ties between the United States and China, already in the throes of a 
trade war
.
In retaliation to Beijing’s move to impose the national security law, the US declared Hong Kong to be no longer suitably autonomous from China, a precursor to the removal of special trading privileges. President Donald Trump vowed sanctions and the removal of those privileges.
Protesters who lobbied the US in 2019 to do just that through an enabling legislation cheered Trump on, hoping Beijing would be forced to back down. But observers doubted such an outcome, warning that any US sanctions might only provoke Beijing into hardening its position.

*Beijing probably calculated that President Donald Trump speaks loudly but carries a small stickSteve Tsang, SOAS China Institute in London*

“Beijing probably calculated that President Donald Trump speaks loudly but carries a small stick, and is therefore not deterred by the threat of US responses,” said Steve Tsang, director of SOAS China Institute in London.

Opposition lawmaker Eddie Chu Hoi-dick said Hong Kong activists had succeeded in capitalising on the geopolitical rivalry to bring the city’s issues onto the international stage, but conceded they might not secure real concessions. “If in the end Beijing does not care, we’ll be back to square one,” he said.





Lawmakers Andrew Wan (left) of the Democratic Party and Felix Chung from the Liberal Party debate on a programme. Photo: Jonathan Wong

Felix Chung Kwok-pan, lawmaker and leader of the business-friendly Liberal Party, blamed both the city government and the opposition for making Hong Kong the collateral damage in the superpower conflict. It was the government’s intransigence to press on with the extradition bill that sparked the political unrest, he said.

As for the opposition, he said their determination to demonise Article 23 made it impossible for Hong Kong to introduce its own national security law, pushing Beijing to proceed on its own.





Masked pedestrians in Causeway Bay. Hong Kong has been hit by a triple whammy of the trade war, protests and the pandemic. Photo: May Tse

Indeed, the previously dithering pro-establishment camp appeared galvanised by Beijing’s move. It swiftly formed an alliance to support the national security law, operated 5,400 street booths and a website for eight days, during which it collected more than 2.9 million signatures in support of the legislation.

Lau Siu-kai, vice-president of the Chinese Association of Hong Kong and Macau Studies, said anti-government protesters gradually lost support from Hongkongers eager to see peace and order restored in an economy ravaged by the pandemic.

*Hongkongers always see things from their own perspective, but few would think of how their opponents would respondVeteran pan-democrat*

A pan-democrat veteran, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said he had warned his colleagues that the central government might move on the national security law on its own. “I believe that was always an option, but Beijing finally decided to use it – and implement it in a harsher way – when it saw the protests return amid the pandemic,” he said.

He added that having seen the way opposition lawmakers tried to block the national anthem bill, Beijing realised it could not count on Hong Kong to implement Article 23. “Hongkongers always see things from their own perspective, but few would think of how their opponents would respond,” the veteran lamented, saying each side lived in its own echo chamber.

Political scientist Tsang put it thus: “The tragedy is that neither Beijing nor the people of Hong Kong understand each other. Both sides decided to stick to their positions and thus escalated to a confrontation that could have been avoided or at least deferred for some time.”

*Staying to fight another day or leaving?*

For now, as the city awaits the details of the national security law, groups are planning protests and hoping for the “big one” that would once again exact a cost on the city like they did in 2019. That date could be on any of the key turning points of last year’s outpouring of anger.

Jimmy Sham Tsz-kit, convenor of the Civil Human Rights Front which organised the estimated 1 million- and 2 million-strong marches of last June, has warned of a large-scale protest on July 1, the anniversary of Hong Kong’s return to China.





Jimmy Sham, convenor of the Civil Human Rights Front. Photo: Dickson Lee

Others, especially lawmakers, are mulling over how they can push ahead for a breakthrough at the Legco elections in September, fearful of disqualifications if punitive new rules kick in.

The city is also caught in a new swirl of anxiety – and excitement. Tens of thousands of Hongkongers with British National (Overseas) passports are reportedly applying to renew their travel documents, following a London pledge that could put them on the path to British citizenship if the new national security law was passed.
Emigration consultant Benny Cheung Ka-hei said he had been receiving 30 to 40 inquiries a day, more than three times the usual number, mostly from professionals aged between 30 and 50, with children.





A BN(O) passport. Photo: Fung Chang

Amid the frenzy, however, younger protesters said they were not in a hurry to go anywhere. Ironically, many are not directly eligible for the passport. But it did not matter, they said. “I have never thought of leaving as this is the hometown I love,” said student Sophie Lai who was in Causeway Bay on May 27.

Protesters had been through setbacks before, she said, and even if they were defeated now, the desire to keep Hong Kong unique remained undimmed.

She was in a long fight, she vowed, against mainland encroachment. “I will stay and defend the city,” said the 16-year-old.

Chak-lam, who was charged with unlawful assembly for putting up roadblocks last August, had no regrets either for any punishment awaiting her. “I would be a bystander watching our city being stripped of its freedoms if I did nothing,” she said.

Her mother, she said, had once implored her to leave the city. “But my immediate response at the time – which still stands now – was: can I stay?”

_Additional reporting by Sum Lok-kei, Holly Chik and Natalie Wong_

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## vi-va

Its not anti government. It's extremism, the most greedy capitalism and color revolution. Just like what happened in other places, funded by NED and CIA.

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## 8888888888888

The law has to be in place due to foreign government interference like the separatists in Taiwan.


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## kankan326

In 1984,

CCP: HK I will give a 5 level autonomy. Better than British 3.
HKers : Okay.
CCP: But you need to accept security law
HKers: Okay

In 1997,

CCP: Will you pass the Article 23 of the Basic Law（security law）?
HKers: Yes. We will

In 2003,

HKers: We don't want BL23
CCP: You will accept BL23, won't you?

In 2014，

HKers: We want 7 level autonomy and don't want BL 23.
CCP: No

In 2019,
HKers: We want 10 level autonomy and don't want BL23
CCP: I give a 5.
HKers: No. We want 10.
CCP: What about 6?
HKers: No. We want 10
CCP: .....

In 2020,
CCP: I give you a 4. Deal.
HKers: What?....

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## striver44

Pro CCP PDF members in a nutshell

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269964387609006080


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## powastick

bbccdd1470 said:


> The first video is not speaking Cantonese, the uniform looks different and HK beat cops use revolver where the gun in the video looks like the handgun to me. The second video is BS, like Beat said Kneel on neck by police is a legal moves and as you could see the police only kneel on neck when arresting the suspect and once the suspect is arrested, they stops kneeling unlike Derek Chauvin who kneeled on the George Floyd's neck for nine minutes long.


I recognize the video on the second one. He is the guy who try to snatch the gun from the police and got shot, thus was bleeding. He is begging to be hospitalize. This guy were with the group that were attacking the police.

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## Beast

striver44 said:


> Pro CCP PDF members in a nutshell
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269964387609006080


What is wrong with kneel neck on violent suspect? May I know?


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## lcloo



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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271656500524544001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271976917860847616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269964639535681537


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## gangsta_rap

equating a hate crime that resulted in a death to political repression is in bad taste


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## casual

the Knee of neck here doesn't have the officer's entire weight behind it. not the same technique


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## Bogeyman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277695848466518016


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## Hamartia Antidote

At least 289 arrested as scattered groups protest postponed Hong Kong vote


Hongkongers were supposed to be casting their votes on Sunday to choose lawmakers for the next term but elections were postponed due to health crisis.




www.scmp.com






*Heavy police presence continues late into the evening, hours after officers use pepper balls and pepper spray against protesters*
*Hongkongers were supposed to be casting their votes on Sunday to choose lawmakers for the next term but elections were postponed due to health crisis*






At least 289 people were arrested, one on suspicion of violating the national security law, as Hong Kong protesters took to the streets of Kowloon on Sunday to demonstrate against the Beijing-imposed legislation and the government’s decision to postpone legislative elections for a year because of the coronavirus crisis.

There was a heavy police presence in the area late into the evening, hours after officers had used both pepper spray and pepper balls in dispersal operations against anti-government protesters. That came after scattered groups of people had heeded online calls by anonymous activists, who aimed to mobilise 50,000 protesters on what would have been Legislative Council polls day.

The groups that gathered in the Jordan neighbourhood were small at first, but protesters later spread to nearby Mong Kok and Yau Ma Tei.






In Mong Kok, police fired pepper balls at protesters at about 5pm. Nearby, officers raised a purple flag warning those chanting the “Liberate Hong Kong; revolution of our times” slogan that they could be arrested for violating the sweeping security law.

Chaotic scenes erupted when several plain-clothes officers pepper-sprayed and wrestled protesters to the ground. Baton-wielding officers then went for other demonstrators and had water bottles thrown at them.

Among anti-government slogans chanted near Jordan MTR station were calls for the city to be independent from Chinese rule.

As of 9pm, police said, one woman had been arrested on suspicion of violating the national security law for chanting slogans that promoted Hong Kong independence.




Police officers stop and search people in Mong Kok. Photo: May Tse

Some 270 others were detained on suspicion of illegal assembly. Five men were held for disorderly conduct in a public place, another five people for not being able to present their identity cards, and others for assaulting police, obstructing officers in the execution of their duties, loitering or other offences.

A bus driver who reportedly honked his horn at officers blocking a street was also arrested although the force later said he was held on suspicion of dangerous driving as he was going too fast and drove his vehicle very close to officers on Nathan Road, endangering their safety.






Riot police in Mong Kok. Photo: Dickson Lee

Twenty-two people were fined for violating coronavirus-related social-distancing rules that limit public gatherings to two people.

League of Social Democrats activists “Long Hair” Leung Kwok-hung, Raphael Wong Ho-ming and Figo Chan Ho-wun were among those arrested after raising a banner outside the Eaton Hotel in Jordan to criticise the government for postponing the polls.
“I want my right to vote! Shame [on the government] for postponing the elections!” Leung said.

Police accused them of taking part in an unauthorised assembly, and then pointed to the 30 or so journalists following them and said they also could be considered as taking part in the illegal event.




Police were out in force on Sunday afternoon in Kowloon. Photo: Dickson Lee

Officers later took the trio into a police vehicle. A post on Chan’s Facebook page subsequently said the three had been arrested.
Police sources earlier said 2,000 riot officers
would be deployed across West Kowloon, with water cannons and armoured vehicles on standby but they were not brought into action.

Hongkongers were supposed to be casting their votes on Sunday to choose lawmakers for the next term. But the government postponed the elections in late July, citing public health risks because of the resurgent coronavirus outbreak.





The Legco elections were postponed for a year. Photo: Nora Tam

Critics, however, said the move was politically motivated. Opposition politicians had been banking on winning an unprecedented majority in the 70-seat legislature, buoyed by their trouncing of pro-establishment rivals in last year’s district council polls.

A 63-year-old protester said she was not worried despite police being out in force. The woman, named Yim, was unhappy about the postponement of the elections.
“Why not let me vote? You let people do mass virus testing, but why not let people participate in an election?” she said, referring to the government’s citywide voluntary coronavirus screening scheme. “If you are postponing the elections for one month, that would still be acceptable. But that’s not the case now. Why does it have to be so?”






There is a heavy police presence on the streets of Kowloon. Photo: May Tse

A protester in her 20s said: “I feel more pressure to come out [and protest]. We never know when police will arrest us with the national security law. But Hongkongers have no more room to retreat.”

A 20-year-old said he was afraid of being arrested but it was his responsibility to come out and defend citizens’ freedom of speech.

At around 2.15pm, activist Joshua Wong Chi-fung appeared outside the Eaton Hotel. Asked whether he was there to join the protest, Wong said he would “see what happens”, because of the number of police officers present.

But he said there were four demands which he wished to express, including withdrawing the national security law and relaunching the elections immediately.

“We hope the world can never forget September 6 should be election day. And now Beijing delayed and even cancelled the elections, which is totally unreasonable,” he said.

Dozens of people also gathered inside Langham Place shopping centre in Mong Kok to chant protest slogans. Officers did not enter the mall but checked the identity cards of those outside and nearby.

Small groups of protesters in Mong Kok were still being searched as night fell and, on one occasion, officers would not let people inside a mobile phone shop leave until after their identities were checked.

In a statement in the evening, the government strongly condemned the protest and said such unauthorised assemblies could significantly increase the risk for Covid-19 to spread.

A spokesman said it was international practice for countries to pass laws to protect national safety. The national security law was constitutional, reasonable, and in line with the “one country, two systems” principle, he said, referring to the framework under which Beijing governed Hong Kong.

The law bans acts of secession, subversion, terrorism and collusion with foreign forces.
The spokesman also defended the decision to postpone the elections, saying the Covid-19 outbreak could last for some time and there could be another outbreak during the winter.
Beijing’s liaison office in the city also said in a statement it supported police taking decisive enforcement action to ensure stability.

The office said it was reasonable for the government to postpone the elections, hitting out at opposition figures for inciting “street resistance”. It also criticised these figures for politicising Beijing’s help in Hong Kong’s fight against the coronavirus outbreak, saying they had no conscience.





A bus driver was detained by police. Photo: May Tse


Police last made arrests on Sunday’s scale on July 1 when 370 people were detained for various offences as thousands gathered in anger over the security law, which had been imposed on the city the previous day.

In a statement on a Telegram group earlier, the anonymous organisers of Sunday’s protest said citizens had to take to the streets because there was already no way out in the face of a “shameless” government.

The protest was also organised to show disapproval about the plans to introduce a health code system, which would allow people to travel freely without need for quarantine between Hong Kong, mainland China and Macau.

Meanwhile, a 12-year-old girl was seen in a viral video being pinned down by riot police on Sai Yeung Choi Street South in Mong Kok at about 4pm. She had tried to run away but was quickly stopped and grabbed by a male officer who then pinned her down to the ground with his knee while trying to subdue her. She and her brother were later fined for violating social-distancing rules.

The siblings sustained minor bruises and were treated at Kwong Wah Hospital in Yau Ma Tei.

Her mother told the media the girl was just going to buy paint with her brother but they were stopped by police. She said she would not pay the fine – a fixed penalty of HK$2,000 (US$256) for each – and planned to file a complaint.

Police said on their Facebook page about 100 people had gathered on the street and were yelling, with some refusing to leave after a warning. Officers intercepted them, including the girl, who “ran away in a suspicious manner”. Officers gave chase and applied minimum force to subdue her, the force said.


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## Hamartia Antidote

2,000 riot police ready for planned Hong Kong protest over poll delay: source


Organisers hope 50,000 activists will attend unauthorised anti-government rally, planned for Sunday, against postponement to Legco elections and the national security law.




www.scmp.com





*Hong Kong protests: police to deploy ‘2,000 riot officers’ for planned anti-government rally against Legislative Council elections delay*

Organisers hope 50,000 activists will attend unauthorised anti-government rally against postponement to Legco polls and the national security law
Water cannons and armoured vehicles on standby as part of heavy police presence for Sunday’s planned event


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## kankan326

So? What US is going to do? Does US still have other card in hand?

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## Hamartia Antidote

kankan326 said:


> So? What US is going to do? Does US still have other card in hand?



What does the US have to do with Hong Kong?


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## kankan326

Hamartia Antidote said:


> What does the US have to do with Hong Kong?


Okay. US did nothing to Hongkong.

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## vi-va

Clean those US brainwashed and funded rats and cockroaches. I am satisfied.

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## type93

Back the blue!


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## DavidsSling

Child’s mother says her daughter was buying art supplies when she was tackled and pinned to the ground by police






Hong Kong police have been strongly criticised over the rough arrest of a 12-year-old girl whose family says was caught in a protest crowd while out buying art supplies.

Video widely shared across social media and in Hong Kong media showed the officers seeking to corral a group of people including the young girl, who ducked aside and tried to run away. An officer tackled her to the ground, while several others helped to pin her down.

The arrest came amid the largest street protest seen in Hong Kong since 1 July, the first full day under the national security laws imposed by Beijing on the city, outlawing acts of sedition, secession, foreign collusion and terrorism.

The girl’s mother told Apple Daily she intended to sue and lodge a formal complaint. She said her daughter and her 20-year-old son – who were both fined under the city’s pandemic-related laws against gatherings – were out buying art supplies, and that the girl ran away because she was scared. Her daughter was bruised and scratched after the encounter.

Claudia Mo, a pro-democracy legislator, said the actions taken towards the girl “shows how unnecessarily jumpy [and] trigger-happy Hong Kong police have become”.







In a statement a few hours after the incident, Hong Kong police confirmed the arrest of a 12-year-old girl, saying she had run “in a suspicious manner” and officers had used “minimum necessary force” to apprehend her.

“Police were concerned about youngsters participating in prohibited group gathering. Their presence at the chaotic protest scenes also endangers their own personal safety,” it said.

In a later statement police said: “Police attach great importance to integrity. If any person considers he or she is affected by police misconduct, he or she may lodge a complaint to the Complaints Against Police Office. It will be handled in a fair and impartial manner according to established procedures.”

On Sunday night, the Hong Kong government said people had ignored advice from police not to participate in unlawful assemblies, risking anti-pandemic efforts and potentially breaching the national security law. The government “strongly condemn[ed] these unlawful and selfish acts”.

“Police discharged their rightful duties today and took prompt and decisive actions to apprehend the offenders.”

The liaison office for the central government accused protesters of seeking to “reignite war”, and accused them of having “a cold-blooded disregard for the lives and health of the general public” in breaching gathering bans.

The spokesman said since the implementation of the law “Hong Kong society had undergone a positive change from chaos to governance”, and said there would be “zero tolerance” for any violations.

Almost 300 people were arrested on Sunday, the vast majority for unlawful assemblies. About 2,000 police officers were deployed early in the day, ahead of the protests which had been planned by a coalition of pro-democracy groups to mark the day that Hong Kong’s elections were supposed to be held.

Carrie Lam, Hong Kong’s chief executive, announced in July the elections would be postponed for one year because of the danger of Hong Kong’s most recent Covid-19 outbreak, but was accused of using the pandemic to silence opposition. Many protesters also called for the release of 12 people arrested by Chinese coastguards while attempting to flee by boat to Taiwan.

Separately, activist Tam Tak-chi was also arrested on Sunday, for “uttering seditious words”, Hong Kong police said.

The vice-president of radical democratic party People Power and a former radio host, Tam was arrested by the national security squad of the Hong Kong police force but was charged under the regular criminal ordinance, not the national security law.

Senior superintendent Li Kwai-wah said the squad was leading the investigation because of earlier suspicions that Tam had breached article 21 of the national security law, criminalising “incitement to secession”.

Tam’s words had “brought into hatred and contempt of the government and raised discontent and disaffection among Hong Kong people”, Li said.

At least 25 people have been arrested under the national security law so far, although just one has been charged.

The law has provided authorities with the means to widen the scope of their crackdown on dissent in Hong Kong, and has created a chilling effect across academia, media, and pro-democracy members of the public.

In the past month, newspaper offices have been raided, academics removed from their posts, and books regarded as be problematic removed from shelves or altered. Restaurants and shops have torn down “Lennon walls”, where people stuck up post-it notes with pro-democracy messages, and some politicians and activists have fled overseas.

The law’s articles are so broadly defined they have been found to potentially violate numerous international laws, UN groups said last week.

Media organisations have warned there is little clarity about whether standard acts of journalism – such as quoting someone advocating for independence – would put them in breach of the law, and some outlets have removed such content from online platforms. Visas for foreign journalists have also been delayed or outright denied.









Hong Kong shocked by violent police arrest of 12-year-old girl


Child’s mother says her daughter was buying art supplies when she was tackled and pinned to the ground by police




www.theguardian.com





What a disgrace the CCP is, brutally arresting a 12yo? But that can be expected from a regime that does not care for its people. 

But this girl was 12yo she was scared, the CCP is run by gangsters and criminals.

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## Nan Yang

And in other recent news today.


*Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism several times after mother calls for help*
Linden Cameron was recovering in Utah hospital after suffering injuries to his shoulder, ankles, his intestines and his bladder










Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism several times after mother calls for help


‘They’re supposed to de-escalate a situation,’ says mother whose son Linden Cameron was having an episode caused by ‘separation anxiety’




www.theguardian.com

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## srshkmr

zectech said:


> Do the gangsters and criminals live in the only "democracy in the Middle East" and bull dozed her home to make her family homeless. Isreal shoots Muslim child protesters.





Nan Yang said:


> And in other recent news today.
> 
> 
> *Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism several times after mother calls for help*
> Linden Cameron was recovering in Utah hospital after suffering injuries to his shoulder, ankles, his intestines and his bladder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism several times after mother calls for help
> 
> 
> ‘They’re supposed to de-escalate a situation,’ says mother whose son Linden Cameron was having an episode caused by ‘separation anxiety’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



Does this make what the police did in HK right?

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## ACE OF HEARTS

Wrong is wrong. No matter where it takes place.
Honorable members digging out old videos to justify what has happened in Hong Kong is completely WRONG

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## DavidsSling

Love all the whataboutism, typical PDF is infested with trolls.

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## Feng Leng

If the police had tazed the cockroach, then Hong Kong wouldn't be the only ones "shocked"

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## Beast

srshkmr said:


> Does this make what the police did in HK right?


No, but it did show the hypocrisy of American supporter. They don't have right to lecture HK or China. Rapist try tell the world respect woman's right. What a joke!

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## bbccdd1470

I see nothing wrong here, when a police officer asks you to stop, you stop right there. It doesn't matter what age you are, police will chase you if you try to flee and this is normal police procedure in every country.

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## Rafi

You all know what the indians would have done......let's be thankful they were not involved.

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## Beidou2020

When you are supporting separatism on behalf of the Anglo racists, you should be dealt with in the most ruthless way possible regardless of age. I’m glad the Hong Kong police are finally cracking down on these Anglo-supported separatists.

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## Menthol

I think HK police should arrest the mother of the child.

What kind of mother who let her child to gets close and plays with the protesters???

Even as an adult, we are going to stay away, unless we are part of the protesters.

A heartless and careless mother maybe.

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## LeGenD

@zectech 

Kindly refrain from derailing this thread with off-topic posts.



Feng Leng said:


> If the police had tazed the cockroach, then Hong Kong wouldn't be the only ones "shocked"


A 12 year old girl is a cockroach? Seriously man? Do you have a daughter?

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## casual

LeGenD said:


> @zectech
> 
> Kindly refrain from derailing this thread with off-topic posts.
> 
> 
> A 12 year old girl is a cockroach? Seriously man? Do you have a daughter?


just ban that dude. he's got mental issues. what the HK police did was wrong. i hope the girl's fine after this.


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## Feng Leng

casual said:


> just ban that dude. he's got mental issues. what the HK police did was wrong. i hope the girl's fine after this.


You are a just an American citizen pretending to be Chinese. China wants nothing to do with you bananas.

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## bbccdd1470

Menthol said:


> I think HK police should arrest the mother of the child.
> 
> What kind of mother who let her child to gets close and plays with the protesters???
> 
> Even as an adult, we are going to stay away, unless we are part of the protesters.
> 
> A heartless and careless mother maybe.


Regardless what the news said, that girl went there as a protester and joined the illegal gathering. Since everyone in HK knew that there would be a huge illegal gathering in that day, and every time those illegal gatherings turn into violence. Even in that morning, the police already asked people do not go there and made it clearly there will be riot police to station there. That girl was just panic when she got stopped, the police just had to do what he has to do. Just learn that as a lesson, don't put yourselves into a dangerous place.

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## Menthol

bbccdd1470 said:


> Regardless what the news said, that girl went there as a protester and joined the illegal gathering. Since everyone in HK knew that there would be a huge illegal gathering in that day, and every time those illegal gatherings turn into violence. Even in that morning, the police already asked people do not go there and made it clearly there will be riot police to station there. That girl was just panic when she got stopped, the police just had to do what he have to do. Just learn that as a lesson, don't put yourselves into a dangerous place.



I'm just wondering why children as young as that doing the protest???

What she knows about it anyway???

This really disgusts me.



I guess there are only two reasons for it.


One is for publicity, where they are waiting for the policemen to do harm to her and it will be as she is so small.

Basically she is being sacrificed as bait, what a heartless people, and extremely irresponsible parent.

Even if policemen are trying to save her in a very soft way, it will still be reported bad, as policemen are trying to kidnap the child.


Two, because they can't get support from mature people to do the protest.

Mature people know what is going on in China, and it's actually very good.

We can see how China government handled coronavirus outbreak, not to mention economic indicators as well as the unbelievable infrastructure development.

It's beyond something to be proud of, it's a miracle.

They are only using people who are more prone to the idealism, rather than reality.

Who likes to hear a good slogan, while they don't know what is it, and the application in real life.


To be honest, USA government is playing extremely dirty.

I do believe, no one is going to listen and have any respect to USA anymore.

The only reason why they listen is under the pointing of guns.

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## Menthol

LeGenD said:


> @zectech
> 
> Kindly refrain from derailing this thread with off-topic posts.
> 
> 
> A 12 year old girl is a cockroach? Seriously man? Do you have a daughter?



The parent is the cockroaches.

In my opinion, policemen should arrest the parent.


It's quite surprising they are using children who are still innocent and know nothing to do their dirty work.

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## bbccdd1470

Menthol said:


> I'm just wondering why children as young as that doing the protest???
> 
> What she knows about it anyway???
> 
> This really disgusts me.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess there are only two reasons for it.
> 
> 
> One is for publicity, where they are waiting for the policemen to do harm to her and it will be as she is so small.
> 
> Basically she is being sacrificed as bait, what a heartless people, and extremely irresponsible parent.
> 
> Even if policemen are trying to save her in a very soft way, it will still be reported bad, as policemen are trying to kidnap the child.
> 
> 
> Two, because they can't get support from mature people to do the protest.
> 
> Mature people know what is going on in China, and it's actually very good.
> 
> We can see how China government handled coronavirus outbreak, not to mention economic indicators as well as the unbelievable infrastructure development.
> 
> It's beyond something to be proud of, it's a miracle.
> 
> They are only using people who are more prone to the idealism, rather than reality.
> 
> Who likes to hear a good slogan, while they don't know what is it, and the application in real life.
> 
> 
> To be honest, USA government is playing extremely dirty.
> 
> I do believe, no one is going to listen and have any respect to USA anymore.
> 
> The only reason why they listen is under the pointing of guns.


I think this is more about poor parenting in this case. Using young, old and pregnant woman as bait was not news, as about 40% arrested were students and many of them are underage. At the beginning, the opposition actually put the old people to the front line as shield, so the police had a hard time catching the rioters until the police started also arresting the old. As a matter of fact, some extreme yellow parents do encourage and bring their kids to the front line. Disinformation plays a big part in HK riots where it affects every age group, not only the young one.

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## bilibili

HK gov can ask help from US cops to deal with protestors, they are so good at figuring out demonstration.

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## leviathan

bilibili said:


> HK gov can ask help from US cops to deal with protestors, they are so good at figuring out demonstration.


like shoot them from back for 7 times

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## shanlung

vi-va said:


> Clean those US brainwashed and funded rats and cockroaches. I am satisfied.







Feng Leng said:


> If the police had tazed the cockroach, then Hong Kong wouldn't be the only ones "shocked"


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## rott

Teenagers can't think much. They do not have the foresight as yet. Me at 16 years old would do things that I'll be ashamed to even think about it now. The teens will grow old and realize they have been stupid.

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## rott

LeGenD said:


> @zectech
> 
> Kindly refrain from derailing this thread with off-topic posts.
> 
> 
> A 12 year old girl is a cockroach? Seriously man? Do you have a daughter?


I have an 11-year-old daughter. I would be really hurt if it were to happen to her. But then, why would I send an 11-year-old out in the midst of these protests. Something isn't right here. These are the kids. They are being manipulated by some bigger organizations. I am not a crackpot to send my 11-year-old daughter to buy medication even if I am sick. If there was an emergency, I'd go myself, or if I am sick, I'd send an adult not a 12-year-old. 

These people are sending children in order to earn sympathy from the world and it's not the parents doing, it's bigger than that. Parents are probably getting paid, they are the ones who need to be arrested and questioned.

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## KurtisBrian

the incited staged protests in Hong Kong are apparently called the Umbrella revolution or Umbrella movement. Usually they are color revolutions done by Americans. Since this was not color it wasn't done the US but instead somebody else. Perhaps the UK or Swiss banksters....like the Umbrella corp we see in Resident Evil, on the Pope and Templars.

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## flowerfan2020

casual said:


> just ban that dude. he's got mental issues. what the HK police did was wrong. i hope the girl's fine after this.


Should ban you, idiot.


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