# How many Pakistani PDF members were opposed to CPEC from beginning?



## Bharat Muslim

Vote in the poll and share your views.


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## BHarwana

None of Pakistani opposed it in start or even now. Only disguised trolls opposed it.

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## litman

no sincere pakistani will ever oppose anything that is for betterment of a common pakistani. there is no need of voting for that. be it CPEC, kalabagha dam, roads and infrastructure development. problems arise when certain pakistanis due to their selfish interests mislead the masses. kalabagh dam is the classical example. the second major issue is that our leaders generally lack vision and they dont do any preparation in advance. in case of CPEC there is no planning for what will become of the local industry once chinese goods will flood the local market. chinese products are slightly better but far cheaper then the local produce. very soon there will be locks at the gates of our industries and that lock will also be of tricircle company of china.

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## Valar.

Lol.. what's the point of a poll addressing Pakistanis where even non Pakistanis can vote? 

Anyway, I supported it before and still support it

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## Enigma_

Any Pakistani who didn't support the project was and is an idiot.

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## Indus Pakistan

I voted "yes" not because of the stupid Pakistani media which I rarely bother with - although I like Herald magazine. I was for CPEC from day one because of my own reasons which were -


It would open the door to Chinese influence inside Pakistan. The Chinese are athiest. I don't like mullah politics. So that introduces the tantalizing equation of *+-=X* or plus minus equals ex where plus is Chinese influence and minus is mullah politics and X is the level of religious obscurantism inside Pakistan. Therefore greater the plus it reduces X. That is like a gift from heavens for secularists inside Pakistan. This means we begin the long road to secular society.


Because China is next door Chinese influence would permeate into all aspects of Pakistani society. That means way doing business and the economy would over time reconfigure itself. Not only would Pakistani's become more business like rather than ummah like but it would encourage competion and innovation that over time would change Pakistan's political economy and state. Win win.


With this much investment China would never allow Pakistan to turn into a religious hell hole. Therefore efectively CPEC is insurance policy. China would behind closed doors exert pressure on Pak ruling elite to take the path of progress. 



Other investors would be more confident of investing money as they say China ploughing in billions.

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## Sal12

In long run, the infrastructure of Pakistan will be developed but Pakistan will be under huge debt. I don't think Pakistan economy will be big enough in future to pay back those loans to China. Also the money for transporting Chinese Good via Land and Gwadar will Not be sufficient enough to finish off these loans and this toll money alone cannot revive the economy. The dreams of creating economical/industrial zones will remain dreams. Thus CPEC will become one of the many lost dreams which pakistani nation has seen since 1947. But the blame goes to Corrupt Pakistani politicians who were corrupt to the core and on top, they were never visionary.

In future, the relationship between Pakistan and China will also cool down once China starts asking Pakistan to pay back their loans and Pakistan will not have money to return them. Then Pakistan has to give what Sri Lanka gave i.e. Ports and other assets.

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## Kaniska

Why would you expect some one to oppose CPEC?....With influence of atheist China, religious conservatism will slowly decline with rise of economy of Pakistan

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## My-Analogous

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


From the beginning i was supporting CPEC and even today after Indian heavy investments on our media and lots of articles we are reading against CPEC we are still supporting it.

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## Samlee

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.




I Have Always Supported CPEC And Indian Comments On Social Media Only Hardened My Support

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## Old School

There should also be a poll about how many Pakistanis really know what CPEC is all about beyond the acronym. I mean the inside out , even the fine prints. CPEC is not a religion that it can not be publicly criticized or discussed. Nothing is beyond critical scrutiny if the welfare of the country is the primary objective. When you shut people’s mouth and accuse them of blasphemy for everything you dislike, that is precisely a sign of terminal decline of the country.

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## Bharat Muslim

Old School said:


> There should also be a poll about how many Pakistanis really know what CPEC is all about beyond the acronym. I mean the inside out , even the fine prints. CPEC is not a religion that it can not be publicly criticized or discussed. Nothing is beyond critical scrutiny if the welfare of the country is the primary objective. When you shut people’s mouth and accuse them of blasphemy for everything you dislike, that is precisely a sign of terminal decline of the country.


When will you show your country flags below your DP?


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## Old School

Bharat Muslim said:


> When will you show your country flags below your DP?



Anarchists do not believe in phony patriotism like showing off flags or colors.

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## Bharat Muslim

Old School said:


> Anarchists do not believe in phony patriotism like showing off flags or colors.


This is in context of this specific topic. Since you have doubts about CPEC, I wanted to know whether you are Indian or Pakistani.


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## Old School

Bharat Muslim said:


> This is in context of this specific topic. Since you have doubts about CPEC, I wanted to know whether you are Indian or Pakistani.



I never said that I had doubt about CPEC. Read my comment. By the way, I am American of Pakistani origin.


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## Jaanbaz

I think CPEC will bankrupt Pakistan.


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## UniverseWatcher

Kaptaan said:


> I voted "yes" not because of the stupid Pakistani media which I rarely bother with - although I like Herald magazine. I was for CPEC from day one because of my own reasons which were -
> 
> 
> It would open the door to Chinese influence inside Pakistan. The Chinese are athiest. I don't like mullah politics. So that introduces the tantalizing equation of *+-=X* or plus minus equals ex where plus is Chinese influence and minus is mullah politics and X is the level of religious obscurantism inside Pakistan. Therefore greater the plus it reduces X. That is like a gift from heavens for secularists inside Pakistan. This means we begin the long road to secular society.
> 
> 
> Because China is next door Chinese influence would permeate into all aspects of Pakistani society. That means way doing business and the economy would over time reconfigure itself. Not only would Pakistani's become more business like rather than ummah like but it would encourage competion and innovation that over time would change Pakistan's political economy and state. Win win.
> 
> 
> With this much investment China would never allow Pakistan to turn into a religious hell hole. Therefore efectively CPEC is insurance policy. China would behind closed doors exert pressure on Pak ruling elite to take the path of progress.
> 
> 
> 
> Other investors would be more confident of investing money as they say China ploughing in billions.


couldn't have been said better then this, the future looks bright for Pakistan

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## Bharat Muslim

Sal12 said:


> In long run, the infrastructure of Pakistan will be developed but Pakistan will be under huge debt. I don't think Pakistan economy will be big enough in future to pay back those loans to China. Also the money for transporting Chinese Good via Land and Gwadar will Not be sufficient enough to finish off these loans and this toll money alone cannot revive the economy. The dreams of creating economical/industrial zones will remain dreams. Thus CPEC will become one of the many lost dreams which pakistani nation has seen since 1947. But the blame goes to Corrupt Pakistani politicians who were corrupt to the core and on top, they were never visionary.
> 
> In future, the relationship between Pakistan and China will also cool down once China starts asking Pakistan to pay back their loans and Pakistan will not have money to return them. Then Pakistan has to give what Sri Lanka gave i.e. Ports and other assets.





Jaanbaz said:


> I think CPEC will bankrupt Pakistan.


*And why is Pakistani media silent about it?*

*In case you didn't know: CPEC was inevitable because there are so many corrupt people in Pakistan that if not for Nawaz Sharif, they (whoever conceptualized CPEC) would have found some other person and installed him as puppet PM serving Chinese interests.*


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## Kamikaze Pilot

@SOUTHie


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## Trango Towers

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


Stupid question.....How lopsided is your question especially the 2nd option. 
Randi Indian gagaman style tamasha


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## Kamikaze Pilot

snow lake said:


> Stupid question.....How lopsided is your question especially the 2nd option.
> Randi Indian gagaman style tamasha


@Sal12 @Jaanbaz


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## Chhatrapati

abcxyz0000 said:


> @SOUTHie


I'm not Pakistani. 

IMO, it's not yet fully operational. It's not the time to pass any judgments.

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## UnitedPak

Idiotic and loaded poll, but expected from an oh-so-clever Indian poster. You don't have to "trust the media" in order to see the obvious benefits of CPEC. Please take your bs elsewhere.

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## Clutch

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.




Well your own poll has over 90% support for CPEC ... if you include the margin or error of 10% of indians voting as pakistanis ... then its 100 % support for CPEC... now you can give up on your sadistic obsession against CPEC... as a confused indian muslim with an identity crisis.

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## American Pakistani

Now a bharti troll will question Pakistanis on developments that happens in Pakistan.

Even though I'm neutral on CPEC (by neutral I mean I support things that are in the interests of Pakistan and benificial to Chinese brothers too against things that are only benificial to one party and loss for other). But I don't need to be part of this poll.

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## neem456

There should have been third option, "i supported cpec from first but getting a bit sceptical now as the fine print gets to the light". 
That could have fethced some pakistani votes.


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## Clutch

neem456 said:


> There should have been third option, "i supported cpec from first but getting a bit sceptical now as the fine print gets to the light".
> That could have fethced some pakistani votes.




Clutching at straws?


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

CPEC looks like a done deal for Pak like her army, ISI, nukes, missiles, JFs etc. No matter how many draw backs are shown or resistance is put are the Pak folks parting with them?????


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## Sanchez

Is this an Aamir Khan show？


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I support what Musharaf supported


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## Kamikaze Pilot

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I support what Musharaf supported


Please be clear. Did Musharaf support CPEC or did he oppose it?



Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


@django


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## django

abcxyz0000 said:


> Please be clear. Did Musharaf support CPEC or did he oppose it?
> 
> 
> @django


All in favour of it. always have been, 101 reasons for it.Kudos young fellow

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

A man without the knowledge of history isn't truly enlightened - a history professor

A Pak well-wisher with the knowledge of history can't oppose CPEC!!!! Being a vital cog in a trade route - albeit connecting the "factory of the world" to it's markets for both consumption and raw materials - can't be a losing concern!!!!! Not to mention the geo-strategic part associated with it...



Kaptaan said:


> I voted "yes" not because of the stupid Pakistani media which I rarely bother with - although I like Herald magazine. I was for CPEC from day one because of my own reasons which were -
> 
> 
> It would open the door to Chinese influence inside Pakistan. The Chinese are athiest. I don't like mullah politics. So that introduces the tantalizing equation of *+-=X* or plus minus equals ex where plus is Chinese influence and minus is mullah politics and X is the level of religious obscurantism inside Pakistan. Therefore greater the plus it reduces X. That is like a gift from heavens for secularists inside Pakistan. This means we begin the long road to secular society.
> 
> 
> Because China is next door Chinese influence would permeate into all aspects of Pakistani society. That means way doing business and the economy would over time reconfigure itself. Not only would Pakistani's become more business like rather than ummah like but it would encourage competion and innovation that over time would change Pakistan's political economy and state. Win win.
> 
> 
> With this much investment China would never allow Pakistan to turn into a religious hell hole. Therefore efectively CPEC is insurance policy. China would behind closed doors exert pressure on Pak ruling elite to take the path of progress.
> 
> 
> 
> Other investors would be more confident of investing money as they say China ploughing in billions.


I think here by "Mullah" you don't mean the Islamic scholarship based on 14 centuries of accumulated _Ilm_ and _Akide, _which can debate and discuss _Ibn-i Haldun_ and _Imam-i Rabbani_ at the same breadth to come up with geo-political, geo-strategic, geo-economic etc. decisions based on the best arguments and rationales as permitted by the _Hakikat_ of the given time and space!!! Now, there're some other "pseudo branches", which are the products of the Imperialist intelligence services, and I think "Mullah"-ism in your response alludes to that...

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## Indus Pakistan

HAKIKAT said:


> think "Mullah"-ism in your response alludes to that


Mullahism to me means the accretion of anti-modernism or anti-rationality merely because of colonial experiance. That is declaring any attribute that the colonial subjects saw to Westernism even if it made sense. It's form of guilt by association. It is a reactive, retrogressive way of thinking that took root amongst slaved subjects of European powers.

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## Imad.Khan

i didn't cast my vote because none of the options suit me. I never opposed CPEC and i don't support it cause i trust the media. 

I have some doubts, essentially i think the benefits have been exaggerated but thats my only concern.

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## Zhukov

Well nobody is opposing CPEC. We all want a safe future for our kids and development of our country and elevation of Poverty Levels and Economic progress.
But if it was all done by ourselves it would have been great. This type of influence by a foreign country just makes me uncomfortable. We are permanently tied with Chinese foreign policy decisions at least for coming half century. More like Japan for USA.

But at least something is better then nothing. An Independent foreign policy without Economic prowess is useless like North Korea or Cuba.

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## Kamikaze Pilot

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


@friendly_troll96 @somebozo @Spring Onion @Mugwop @xyxmt @naveedullahkhankhattak @Max @Areesh @fitpOsitive @Imran Khan @PaklovesTurkiye

@Azadkashmir


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## Godman

Sal12 said:


> In long run, the infrastructure of Pakistan will be developed but Pakistan will be under huge debt. I don't think Pakistan economy will be big enough in future to pay back those loans to China. Also the money for transporting Chinese Good via Land and Gwadar will Not be sufficient enough to finish off these loans and this toll money alone cannot revive the economy. The dreams of creating economical/industrial zones will remain dreams. Thus CPEC will become one of the many lost dreams which pakistani nation has seen since 1947. But the blame goes to Corrupt Pakistani politicians who were corrupt to the core and on top, they were never visionary.
> 
> In future, the relationship between Pakistan and China will also cool down once China starts asking Pakistan to pay back their loans and Pakistan will not have money to return them. Then Pakistan has to give what Sri Lanka gave i.e. Ports and other assets.



Sri Lanka did NOT sell shares of SL ports just because we can't pay back the debt. Better Chinese management and the ability of the Chinese to invest more were several other reasons.
There is NO need to build everything from loans in the first place. Chinese are willing for BOT projects and Joint ventures.

@Chinese-Dragon @AndrewJin

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## Spring Onion

abcxyz0000 said:


> Please be clear. Did Musharaf support CPEC or did he oppose it?
> 
> 
> @django


Musharraf supported it


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## xyxmt

abcxyz0000 said:


> @friendly_troll96 @somebozo @Spring Onion @Mugwop @xyxmt @naveedullahkhankhattak @Max @Areesh @fitpOsitive @Imran Khan @PaklovesTurkiye
> 
> @Azadkashmir



Al thought i have issue with the 2nd choice, i dont trust the integrity of Pakistani media...but I supported CPEC from the begining but my views about CPEC were different from others. In my Views, belt and road are a minor part of CPEC the major part is relocating Chinese industry to Gawader and other part of Pakistan is Chinese strategy to 1. gain a market of 200 millions by producing most stuff in Pakistan and 2. Diversify Chinese investments since China is already too developed and not much room more investments, 3. Whats better place to start this strategy than to China's closest friend.

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## somebozo

There is no logical reason to oppose CPEC in pure black and white..however, issues must be resolved in just manner for all stake holders..


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## Kamikaze Pilot

somebozo said:


> There is no logical reason to oppose CPEC in pure black and white..however, issues must be resolved in just manner for all stake holders..


Effect of corrupt media's propaganda blizzard. Even the staunchest critics of Chinese become supporter of Chinese project.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-fraud-in-chinese-air-conditioning.433175/


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## Kamikaze Pilot

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


@El Sidd

@Jungibaaz

@PakSword @Jf Thunder

@Devil Soul @khansaheeb

@Irfan Baloch


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## Devil Soul

abcxyz0000 said:


> @El Sidd
> 
> @Jungibaaz
> 
> @PakSword @Jf Thunder
> 
> @Devil Soul @khansaheeb


voted long ago ....... @ in favour of CPEC


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## El Sidd

abcxyz0000 said:


> @El Sidd
> 
> @Jungibaaz
> 
> @PakSword @Jf Thunder
> 
> @Devil Soul @khansaheeb
> 
> @Irfan Baloch



i am just gonna say it was my idea to begin with.

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## khansaheeb

El Sidd said:


> i am just gonna say it was my idea to begin with.


I have always been for it for a long time , I have done my bit for my people and country! CPEC is not one proposition but a composition of multitude of ideas and projects, with great inputs from historical leaders both Chinese and Pakistani who have helped contrived it to fruition; many thanks to Xi and Nawaz Sharif the contemporary/(ex) leaders of China and Pakistan who polished the final product. The whole project was the great work of the Chinese and Pakistan Military engineering contingents who sacrificed alot to realise this. China has a Chinese perspective and Pakistan has a Pakistani perspective on CPEC and both these perspectives have combined to form what it is. However, like a pot of gold many evil eyes are going to be cast on it both internally and externally and all we (Pakistanis and Chinese) can do is try and safeguard it as best as we can, as an investment, for our children and nation. If India rejects their belligerent hegemonic leader and joins this project it will make the region the greatest economic block ever seen by mankind, even surpassing the Euro block. Its a win win for Pakistan and China and anyone cares to join it. CPEC is a nice name but we should have called it something like the "Intra Asia Gateway" for our vision is not just for tremendous trade with China but all our Asian and non-Asian neighbours. CPEC is in its infancy and is maturing and boy is it a beauty; we can look back and applaud and honour the great people of China and Pakistan and the sacrifices they made to help create this masterpiece.

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## Kamikaze Pilot

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


@Talwar e Pakistan @DESERT FIGHTER @PAKISTANFOREVER


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## Bharat Muslim

*HEY!!*

*WHO CHANGED THE WORDINGS OF THE SECOND OPTION? THE NEW SENTENCE IS VERY MISLEADING!!!*


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## El Sidd

Bharat Muslim said:


> *HEY!!*
> 
> *WHO CHANGED THE WORDINGS OF THE SECOND OPTION? THE NEW SENTENCE IS VERY MISLEADING!!!*



Kalam Azad changed it after fatwa from Darul Uloom in Deoband India.
Shia Waqf board signed it as well.

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## Kamikaze Pilot

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


@lastofthepatriots


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## ddlee96969

some pakistani like CPEC but others do not think so.it just like china in 1989,when china decided accept oda from japan. goods that made in japan flood chinese market. you could not see anything that made by chinese industry expect bicycle..but now china has became the world's factory by learning technology from japan and protection policy. i am sorry for my poor english .god bless pakistan.

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## Mugwop

I welcome CPEC Projects but the notion that it will open up new jobs for Pakistanis is not entirely true.


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## python-000

CPEC is the way of a bright future for Pakistan BUT our corrupt politicians are the biggest threat for this...

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## Imran Khan

i love it i love it even before i heard abut it i loved it D

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## khansaheeb

Imran Khan said:


> i love it i love it even before i heard abut it i loved it D


What do you love?


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## Imran Khan

khansaheeb said:


> What do you love?


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## khansaheeb

Imran Khan said:


>


blue bubble gums or blue M&Ms
?


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## Imran Khan

khansaheeb said:


> blue bubble gums or blue M&Ms
> ?


muree brewery's sapphire


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## Indus Pakistan

Mugwop said:


> I welcome CPEC Projects but the notion that it will open up new jobs for Pakistanis is not entirely true.


That notion is true but contingent on Pakistani's to grab the opportunities offered by CPEC. If they sit on the fence scratching their crotch or spend all their energy on demonstrating for some mullah then of course nothing will happen.

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## Kamikaze Pilot

ddlee96969 said:


> some pakistani like CPEC but others do not think so.it just like china in 1989,when china decided accept oda from japan. goods that made in japan flood chinese market. you could not see anything that made by chinese industry expect bicycle..but now china has became the world's factory by learning technology from japan and protection policy. i am sorry for my poor english .god bless pakistan.


China is not Japan. Even third world countries like India and Pakistan can learn nothing from China.


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## ddlee96969

abcxyz0000 said:


> China is not Japan. Even third world countries like India and Pakistan can learn nothing from China.


i read my commet again .in fact , i did not found these sentences that china is japan or pakistan and india shuold learn something from china. so what did you mean.


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## Tanveer666

Mugwop said:


> I welcome CPEC Projects but the notion that it will open up new jobs for Pakistanis is not entirely true.


why is that?



abcxyz0000 said:


> China is not Japan. Even third world countries like India and Pakistan can learn nothing from China.


why is that?


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## Kamikaze Pilot

snow lake said:


> Stupid question.....How lopsided is your question especially the 2nd option.
> Randi Indian gagaman style tamasha





UnitedPak said:


> Idiotic and loaded poll, but expected from an oh-so-clever Indian poster. You don't have to "trust the media" in order to see the obvious benefits of CPEC. Please take your bs elsewhere.





Clutch said:


> Well your own poll has over 90% support for CPEC ... if you include the margin or error of 10% of indians voting as pakistanis ... then its 100 % support for CPEC... now you can give up on your sadistic obsession against CPEC... as a confused indian muslim with an identity crisis.





American Pakistani said:


> Now a bharti troll will question Pakistanis on developments that happens in Pakistan.
> 
> Even though I'm neutral on CPEC (by neutral I mean I support things that are in the interests of Pakistan and benificial to Chinese brothers too against things that are only benificial to one party and loss for other). But I don't need to be part of this poll.





HAKIKAT said:


> CPEC looks like a done deal for Pak like her army, ISI, nukes, missiles, JFs etc. No matter how many draw backs are shown or resistance is put are the Pak folks parting with them?????





Sanchez said:


> Is this an Aamir Khan show？


This poll became meaningless after some moderator distorted the second alternative.

Originally the second voting option read:

I am a Pakistani and I trusted the integrity of Pakistani media. Hence I was for CPEC from beginning.

@PAKISTANFOREVER


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## Bharat Muslim

abcxyz0000 said:


> This poll became meaningless after some moderator distorted the second alternative.
> 
> Originally the second voting option read:
> 
> I am a Pakistani and I trusted the integrity of Pakistani media. Hence I was for CPEC from beginning.
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER


@Jaanbaz


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## pak-marine

fully support cpec .. but on our terms


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## Kamikaze Pilot

This poll became meaningless after some moderator distorted the second alternative.

Originally the second voting option read:

I am a Pakistani and I trusted the integrity of Pakistani media. Hence I was for CPEC from beginning.

@PaklovesTurkiye

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## RoadRunner401

Sal12 said:


> I don't think



yes we all know that!


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## TMA

Kaptaan said:


> I voted "yes" not because of the stupid Pakistani media which I rarely bother with - although I like Herald magazine. I was for CPEC from day one because of my own reasons which were -
> 
> 
> It would open the door to Chinese influence inside Pakistan. The Chinese are athiest. I don't like mullah politics. So that introduces the tantalizing equation of *+-=X* or plus minus equals ex where plus is Chinese influence and minus is mullah politics and X is the level of religious obscurantism inside Pakistan. Therefore greater the plus it reduces X. That is like a gift from heavens for secularists inside Pakistan. This means we begin the long road to secular society.
> 
> 
> Because China is next door Chinese influence would permeate into all aspects of Pakistani society. That means way doing business and the economy would over time reconfigure itself. Not only would Pakistani's become more business like rather than ummah like but it would encourage competion and innovation that over time would change Pakistan's political economy and state. Win win.
> 
> 
> With this much investment China would never allow Pakistan to turn into a religious hell hole. Therefore efectively CPEC is insurance policy. China would behind closed doors exert pressure on Pak ruling elite to take the path of progress.
> 
> 
> 
> Other investors would be more confident of investing money as they say China ploughing in billions.


Human affairs rarely follow the exact nature of mathematics...the best way to reduce "mullahism" is for Pakistanis to do it themselves...not from outside...


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## Char

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


Have you voted?


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## Bharat Muslim

Char said:


> Have you voted?


The poll is only for Pakistan.


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## Kamikaze Pilot

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.



@U-571


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## StarCraft_ZT

Kaptaan said:


> I voted "yes" not because of the stupid Pakistani media which I rarely bother with - although I like Herald magazine. I was for CPEC from day one because of my own reasons which were -
> 
> 
> It would open the door to Chinese influence inside Pakistan. The Chinese are athiest. I don't like mullah politics. So that introduces the tantalizing equation of *+-=X* or plus minus equals ex where plus is Chinese influence and minus is mullah politics and X is the level of religious obscurantism inside Pakistan. Therefore greater the plus it reduces X. That is like a gift from heavens for secularists inside Pakistan. This means we begin the long road to secular society.
> 
> 
> Because China is next door Chinese influence would permeate into all aspects of Pakistani society. That means way doing business and the economy would over time reconfigure itself. Not only would Pakistani's become more business like rather than ummah like but it would encourage competion and innovation that over time would change Pakistan's political economy and state. Win win.
> 
> 
> With this much investment China would never allow Pakistan to turn into a religious hell hole. Therefore efectively CPEC is insurance policy. China would behind closed doors exert pressure on Pak ruling elite to take the path of progress.
> 
> 
> 
> Other investors would be more confident of investing money as they say China ploughing in billions.


Very well said



Sal12 said:


> In long run, the infrastructure of Pakistan will be developed but Pakistan will be under huge debt. I don't think Pakistan economy will be big enough in future to pay back those loans to China. Also the money for transporting Chinese Good via Land and Gwadar will Not be sufficient enough to finish off these loans and this toll money alone cannot revive the economy. The dreams of creating economical/industrial zones will remain dreams. Thus CPEC will become one of the many lost dreams which pakistani nation has seen since 1947. But the blame goes to Corrupt Pakistani politicians who were corrupt to the core and on top, they were never visionary.
> 
> In future, the relationship between Pakistan and China will also cool down once China starts asking Pakistan to pay back their loans and Pakistan will not have money to return them. Then Pakistan has to give what Sri Lanka gave i.e. Ports and other assets.



No you're wrong. China never count on the investment to be fully profitable, that's impossible, even inside China, there are a lot of infrastructure projects under heavy debt. CEPC is more like a strategic national project that in the long run will guarantee China energy safty and homeland security, you should have bigger picture. I work in the bank and i know if you are not capable of repaying loans to bank, the only one worries is bank, because the bank doesn't want default to happen, they will keep on making new loans for you to repay the old debt, this is a cycle, you're the last one to worry about the debt!!!

Also if I made the loan to you, I will do investigation under due diligence in case of my asset to be ruined by any possible risks. So China will try best to stabilize the social circumstances and eleminate any turbulence inside Pakistan and creat an atmosphere of protecting and promoting business. This is good for Pakistan.

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## Kamikaze Pilot

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


@newb3e


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## Kamikaze Pilot

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


@Dubious @lastofthepatriots


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## Dubious

abcxyz0000 said:


> @Dubious @lastofthepatriots


Are you getting some sort of commission or are you like 1 of them busy body neighborhood aunties?


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## beijingwalker

What's done is done, if something doesn't go smoothly as planned, we try and focus on getting it right and back on track instead of wishing we hadn't started it in the first place. I never seen any large projects being a total failure in China and many of them were being criticized harshly when being built. It's all about how you adjust them with the development to optimize the result.

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## Kamikaze Pilot

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


@PakSword @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @I S I
@Ahmet Pasha @alee92nawaz @N.Siddiqui @Syed Hammad pasha @seven0seven @Zibago @Menthol @Baby Leone
@PakPrinciples @Areesh

- PRTP GWD


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## Zibago

abcxyz0000 said:


> @PakSword @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @I S I
> @Ahmet Pasha @alee92nawaz @N.Siddiqui @Syed Hammad pasha @seven0seven @Zibago @Menthol @Baby Leone
> @PakPrinciples @Areesh
> 
> - PRTP GWD


Still support it


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## I S I

abcxyz0000 said:


> @PakSword @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @I S I
> @Ahmet Pasha @alee92nawaz @N.Siddiqui @Syed Hammad pasha @seven0seven @Zibago @Menthol @Baby Leone
> @PakPrinciples @Areesh
> 
> - PRTP GWD


Stop tagging me in old threads.


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## Kamikaze Pilot

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


@SIPRA @Daghalodi @Chakar The Great @M. Sarmad @khansaheeb @BHarwana @Qutb-ud-din Aybak 

- PRTP GWD


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## AsianLion

I didnot like the CPEC deals hidden from public, as public has to pay to debt, and the negotiation of Pakistan China deals was not correct from the start. Need to renegotiate deals.


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## Menthol

abcxyz0000 said:


> @PakSword @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @I S I
> @Ahmet Pasha @alee92nawaz @N.Siddiqui @Syed Hammad pasha @seven0seven @Zibago @Menthol @Baby Leone
> @PakPrinciples @Areesh
> 
> - PRTP GWD



Hahaha


I don't know.

If Pakistan can handle China's working standard...

They will become a developed country soon enough.


But there's a reason why up to today, Pakistan is not a developed country, at least reach a median level of world standard.

Why were Western countries not investing in Pakistan a long time ago and succeed instead of East Asia and SE Asia?


China investment in Pakistan just brings more conflicts and differences.

Despite Pakistan government wants it, but Pakistani people can't handle it.

It's a complicated social issue Pakistan has.


It's better if China investment to be directed to ASEAN.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

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## JafarQureshi

Anyone who opposes CPEC should be kicked out of Pakistan.

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## ziaulislam

I am opposed to lack of transparency ..CPEC like any investment should have that...in 90% cases it does but in some cases it doesnt..
Other problem is wrong expectations from pakistanis here..

CPEC isnt a transport corridor..china gain nothing by transportation of stuff through a rough long terrian it will still prefer searoute even for most of its western parts..

CPEC should be looked as a transfer of the technology , manufacturing and infrastructure
Build up necessary for that...if it fails in these then its a failure..anyone can guess how are we doing "so far" in this...my relatives working in CPEC planning comission are advocating for the same ..chinese are also open..the problem is pakistani side..pakistani just want motorways and lahore projects..

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## JafarQureshi

ziaulislam said:


> I am opposed to lack of transparency ..CPEC like any investment should have that...in 90% cases it does but in some cases it doesnt..
> Other problem is wrong expectations from pakistanis here..
> 
> CPEC isnt a transport corridor..china gain nothing by transportation of stuff through a rough long terrian it will still prefer searoute even for most of its western parts..
> 
> CPEC should be looked as a transfer of the technology , manufacturing and infrastructure
> Build up necessary for that...if it fails in these then its a failure..anyone can guess how are we doing "so far" in this...my relatives working in CPEC planning comission are advocating for the same ..chinese are also open..the problem is pakistani side..pakistani just want motorways and lahore projects..



CPEC is a military project not an economic project hence do not expect transparency. The goal is a build and provide a military base to China for its operations in Persian gulf, Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean.


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## Ultima Thule

abcxyz0000 said:


> @PakSword @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @I S I
> @Ahmet Pasha @alee92nawaz @N.Siddiqui @Syed Hammad pasha @seven0seven @Zibago @Menthol @Baby Leone
> @PakPrinciples @Areesh
> 
> - PRTP GWD


Why should we opposed its and don't tag me in this old thread
Mr stupid
PRTP GWD



JafarQureshi said:


> CPEC is a military project not an economic project hence do not expect transparency. The goal is a build and provide a military base to China for its operations in Persian gulf, Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean.


WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT THINK BEFORE YOU POST


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## Ahmet Pasha

Stop peddling your Indian agenda.
I was a skeptic.
Not against CPEC.
But against afsar minded Pakistanis who signed on to killer loans and expect the Cheenis to be some messiah.

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## khansaheeb

JafarQureshi said:


> Anyone who opposes CPEC should be kicked out of Pakistan.


How about sending them to Siberia? Even worse to India.


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## PakPrinciples

This is a tough one, I didn't oppose CPEC only the way it was put into motion.

You need a third option to include those who have opposed CPEC in its current form right from the start which is the category I fall into.

Instead what I've always been opposed to is the FTA to China and every other country Pakistan has signed one with. Pakistan's industries, outside of maybe the textile sector, simply do not have the ability to compete globally and opening up the economy to foreign competition after years of neglect (i.e. no subsidies, tariffs imposed on imports of raw materials and capital equipment, etc...) will only lead to failure.



Ahmet Pasha said:


> Stop peddling your Indian agenda.
> I was a skeptic.
> Not against CPEC.





khansaheeb said:


> How about sending them to Siberia? Even worse to India.





JafarQureshi said:


> Anyone who opposes CPEC should be kicked out of Pakistan.





khansaheeb said:


> I have always been for it for a long time , I have done my bit for my people and country! CPEC is not one proposition but a composition of multitude of ideas and projects, with great inputs from historical leaders both Chinese and Pakistani who have helped contrived it to fruition





pak-marine said:


> fully support cpec .. but on our terms





AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I support what Musharaf supported





AsianLion said:


> I didnot like the CPEC deals hidden from public, as public has to pay to debt, and the negotiation of Pakistan China deals was not correct from the start. Need to renegotiate deals.





ziaulislam said:


> CPEC should be looked as a transfer of the technology , manufacturing and infrastructure
> Build up necessary for that...if it fails in these then its a failure..anyone can guess how are we doing "so far" in this...my relatives working in CPEC planning comission are advocating for the same ..chinese are also open..the problem is pakistani side..pakistani just want motorways and lahore projects..



What I will say is that anyone who supports CPEC, particularly in its current form, has little understanding of it and how destructive it is for Pakistan while there are clearly some who have ulterior objectives which are anti-Pakistan.

Just for a moment think about it rationally...

The people pushing CPEC on Pakistan were and are the same people who brought you the FTA with China with promises of riches only to see Pakistan's trade deficit with China grow by 50% in the first 5 years alone with none of the proposed benefits for the country they talked about.

The PTI are no exception, they've acted like complete nitwits because even after the Pakistan Business Council published its report in 2013 about how Pakistan was incapable of taking advantage of the FTA:







Further stating that:

_“*Many believe that the product coverage of the FTA should be increased i.e. increasing the number of products part of the current FTA. Given the low utilization (5%), this would be an exercise in futility.* A more appropriate measure would be to renegotiate the FTA in such a way that products that have high potential of exports as well as enjoy a comparative advantage against the rest of the world are given higher concessions”_​
What does the PTI do? They sign FTA 2.0 with China.

Those that kept signing CPEC deals also happen to be the same people who signed signed contracts with Thethyan Copper Company to mine Reqo Diq for its gold and copper a company that planned on ferrying the slurry via pipeline to Gwadar port then by ship it out of the country to process elsewhere while Pakistan earned pennies for every dollar the finished gold and copper would have earned once refined and turned into value added products (ex. jewelry, copper wiring, electronics components, etc...).

So these are the people you trust?

CPEC was intially promoted on one big lie about turning Pakistan into a trading hub for Chinese goods into and out of their country which I already went over in a previous post outlining the costs which confirm the sea route will be significantly cheaper for 95% of China's population and industries and that's even if they ever build direct rail links with China.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cpec-fta-deals-built-on-lies-hurting-pakistan.621629/

You still keep seeing these rumors of said rail links in the works, sometimes articles come out about how they're going to be constructed soon.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1227664

However, if you look over the actual studies done on CPEC, like the "Pakistan Transport Plan Study in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan (PTPS) 2006", you'll find that even "long term" this was never a goal or even considered a possibility:





https://openjicareport.jica.go.jp/pdf/11821907_01.pdf

If you notice the "third phase" end date of 2025 from the study above corresponds to the date in the "Long Term Plan for China-Pakistan Economic Cooridor (2017-2030)" linked further below which itself states that:

*"By 2025, the CPEC building strive to be basically done"*​Furthermore, all we're likely to see interconnecting China and Pakistan is the:

*"Construction and development of [the] Kashgar-Islamabad... road"*
http://cpec.gov.pk/brain/public/uploads/documents/CPEC-LTP.pdf​
You still think there's going to be a China-Pakistan railway in 5 years or 10 years?

I have yet to find any publicly available studies on this proposed rail link despite them supposedly having been done one according to articles out there.

Can any of you find it?

Considering the US’ Bureau of Transportation Statistics in 2004, the last year they updated figures for all forms of freight, confirmed that transport by Truck cost 500% more than by Class I Rail which itself was about 30% more expensive than moving goods by sea it paints an even dimmer picture of the possibility of Pakistan becoming a hub for Chinese trade into and out of their country.
https://www.bts.gov/content/average-freight-revenue-ton-mile

Then some have this weird notion that China is going to be moving its industries Westward so maybe this great transit trade dream, which it appears even official reports and studies on CPEC never considered a possibility, will still happen but what is that based on?

China's own National Bureau of Statistics has been confirming year after year that the countries population is increasingly urbanizing, moving eastward and the only reason you still see the numbers of people living in rural China to the West is largely because of their Hukou system.






Back in 2014, though I'm not exactly sure how much work has been done on this, the Chinese government was seeking to reform the system to allow about 100 Million people from rural Western China to move East with their families into the larger cities:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/china-reform-hukou-migrant-workers

Mind you what was proposed, even if followed through, is nowhere near the reforms that the people were looking for because an outright overhaul of it will likely lead to hundreds of millions moving East meaning this imaginary "great push West" won't happen if anything it'll be a great push East instead.

Then you have confirmations of many of China's industries, like manufacturing globally, increasingly turning towards mechanization of its workforce so don't require a source of cheap manual human labour like what you'll find in Western China.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966

At least people have begun to realize how utterly BS those promises of transit trade are so now you've got this second part to it where many are going on about the benefits of infrastructure investment and how we needed roads, rail, seaports, power plants, etc...

In regards to CPEC what the CPC did was open up credit facilities to private companies that wanted to take advantage of opportunities in Pakistan stemming from years of outright neglect particularly during PPP and PML-N rule.

However, many Chinese companies have a history of exploitation and fraud including those already inside Pakistan who are known to evade taxes so the government should always be weary and careful of what agreements it signs:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...zes-89-million-shoddy-face-masks#.XqZx6HvLfAA
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1710155/2-pakistan-catches-chinese-firm-evading-rs1-12b-taxes/

The majority of those "investments" are related to the power sector which are between the GoP and private enterprises not the CPC. These private enterprises are usually collaborations between Chinese and Pakistani businesses (with Chinese companies usually owning controlling share) and the deals they've signed appear to have no direction and put all the power for renegotiation in the hands of IPP's.

To give you an example, instead of focusing efforts on indigenous sources of electricity like Thar lignite to limit the import of oil and gas which has resulted in billions of dollars in foreign exchange lost, making the country vulnerable to blockades and limiting our retaliatory capabilities against those nations investing in India these IPP's focused their efforts on building power plants that largely run on imported natural gas and coal.

For years the state has known IPP's are ripping off the country but despite this fact the government of Pakistan signed long term agreements with the same IPP's. Furthermore, the debt of these projects are paid for by the public through the tariffs they pay and even if you didn't want to buy the electricity it doesn't matter you still have to pay for the capacity (i.e. capacity factor).
https://www.geo.tv/latest/224559-agreements-with-ipps-are-a-noose-around-our-necks-cjp
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/ipps-rake-in-billions-from-consumers.615579/

There's so much I can go on about this but suffice it to say CPEC is based largely on fraud, it isn't what the public has been lead to believe.

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## Kamikaze Pilot

Remember in 2013/2014, Imran Khan's party staged a dharna alleging that the elections were rigged? Suppose if IK had come to power then itself, could he have prevented this insanity of CPEC that's so harmful to Pakistan?

@CriticalThought @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @crankthatskunk @masterchief_mirza @Sal12 @Jaanbaz @ARMalik @FAROOQ RASHID BUTT

- PRTP GWD


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## Pak_Sher

Bharat Muslim said:


> Vote in the poll and share your views.


Nice try, but misleading title.


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## LeGenD

Former COAS Pervez Musharraf was the FIRST leader to entertain the notion of CPEC at state level. I like this man for his good accomplishments.

Any project which can contribute to Pakistani economy and infrastructure is welcome in my books. CPEC obviously tick the box. I have also opened threads on CPEC in relation.


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