# Kashmir Torture Trail



## Windjammer

*Kashmir - A Land Subjected to State Terrorism by Indian Troops. Jezza Neumann, multi BAFTA-winning director of Kashmir's Torture Trail, talks about filming undercover, Kashmir, and the difficulties in making a film on torture in a state where everyone is afraid of talking. The actual documentry can be viewed at 

Kashmir Torture Trail - UK'S Channel 4 Documentary on Kashmir.mp4 - YouTube*

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

The first youtube video is blocked


Can someone post proper links?

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## TaimiKhan

*One infraction issued for trying to derail the thread, more will follow for others who do the same. Don't complain later. 

Discuss the topic, don't bring in off topic discussion, have nothing to contribute, then shut up and leave the thread. 

You wanna discuss issues about someone else, open a separate thread or post in so many already opened threads. *

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## Gandhi G in da house

Can form an opinion only after watching the documentary . Where can we watch it ? The first link doesn't work .

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## Roybot

Looks like the brits are still pissed about loosing the MMRCA deal.

Just the fact that militants like these sit there and give interviews tells you just how vicious the torture was  



> *Qadir Dar was a militant commander who led 10,000 men in the Muslim Janbaz Force, and who fought India until the mid-1990s, when he was captured.* In this clip from a new documentary, he recounts the torture meted out to surrendered militants



If you are going to kill innocent people, don't expect a spa treatment in return.

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## Windjammer

[video]http://www.channel4.com/programmes/kashmirs-torture-trail/4od[/video]


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## Roybot

Windjammer said:


> [video]http://www.channel4.com/programmes/kashmirs-torture-trail/4od[/video]



That only works for people in the UK.

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## mjnaushad

Roybot said:


> *Looks like the brits are still pissed about loosing the MMRCA deal.
> *
> Just the fact that militants like these sit there and give interviews tells you just how vicious the torture was
> 
> 
> 
> If you are going to kill innocent people, don't expect a spa treatment in return.



So you believe that opinion of the world media is based on how the deals are going between countries.....

The very fact you guys deny if the news is about across the border

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## KS

Roybot said:


> Just the fact that militants like these sit there and give interviews tells you just how vicious the torture was
> 
> If you are going to kill innocent people, don't expect a spa treatment in return.



After the Kasab example of providing biryani and fitness exercises daily even ordinary questioning will appear as 'torture' to these guys.

Anyway another 'documentary' in a long line of 'documentaries'. The world keeps rotating and the day goes on.



mjnaushad said:


> So you believe that opinion of the world media is based on how the deals are going between countries.....
> 
> The very fact you guys deny if the news is about across the border



Ofcourse -

'Western media propaganda' affects not only Pakistan, but also India.

And that too the hopelessly left-leaning British media that has still not completely digested India still functioning as a single country.

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## Roybot

mjnaushad said:


> So you believe that opinion of the world media is based on how the deals are going between countries.....
> 
> The very fact you guys deny if the news is about across the border



The world is very unfair British leftist media always have had an anti India agenda anyways.

If it was about torturing innocent people then I would be outraged too, but I don't have even a tiny bit of sympathy for terrorist scum. They should be happy with the second life that the Indian Army has given them, could have easily killed them instead of just capturing.

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## IBRIS

terrorist torture video's are Banned in USA too. Anyone with some radical link who hosts the video.

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## Windjammer

In the most militarised place on earth, one man is standing up to the armed might of the world's largest democracy. Kashmir's Torture Trail follows a Kashmiri lawyer as he uncovers India's best kept secret.

With the world's media attention focused on repression in Syria and the threat to the Euro, the Indian state of Kashmir, nestling in the shadow of the Himalayas, is in danger of becoming a forgotten conflict.

But in 2010 this valley in the shadow of the Himalayas erupted in some of the most violent street protests it has ever seen. Hundreds of thousands of stone-throwing teenagers took aim at heavily armed Indian Security Force troops, who returned live fire, with 118 demonstrators killed, many of them children, followed by a lock-down in which no one could get in or out of the state.

Kashmiri lawyer Parvez Imroz has never filed a divorce or defended a thief. Instead, this veteran Supreme Court advocate has spent his entire legal career dressed in a grey morning suit and working pro-bono.

Broke but determined, with two young children and a wife who complain he has yet to take them on a picnic, Imroz has always risked his life to keep the Indian authorities accountable in this disputed mountain state where, unseen by most of the world, an insurgency has rumbled on since 1989, claiming an estimated 70,000 lives.

Meeting the rioters to find out why they risked their lives, and accompanying a local human rights lawyer determined to investigate how India restored an uneasy peace, this powerful and shocking film uncovers a state-sanctioned torture programme that has set India on a collision course with the international community.

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## KS

"Most mlitarised place on earth".

Pray tell me whether Kashmir, Gaza strip, 38th parallel, FATA which is the most militarized ?

I have heard this epithet given to all these above places here.

Personally I dont think Kashmir is the most militarized -- that is a myth propagated by vested interests. I have been there and except Kashmiri police you wont be able to see much security forces in urban areas. 

The forces are present in strength only along the LoC thanks to the indefatigable spirit of the mujaheddin who just keep crossing in irrrespective of getting killed soon after crossing.

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## Windjammer



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## KRAIT

Even if there is evidence against Indian army, Pakistan has not been able to bring world's attention to it. So you have failed to help Kashmiris on an international scale.

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## Gandhi G in da house

The British media has an agenda not only against India but also against Pakistan . They leave no stones unturned to malign Pakistan as well . Remember the BBC documentary Secret Pakistan ?

They just can't digest the fact that the sub-continent is still functioning albeir with its own set of problems but is evolving and growing much faster than Britain . They know that in few decades the living standards here will match the West and that is something they seem to take as some sort of a personal insult .

Remember their absolutely biased coverage of the CWG games and the way they reacted after India bought the French Rafale instead of the Typhoon .



Windjammer said:


>



Only available for UK people


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## Dance

*Channel 4 Turns Spotlight on Kashmir*

A trailer for a new Channel 4 documentary that will air tonight in the United Kingdom claims: &#8220;Now from Kashmir, more dark secrets are emerging.&#8221;

Channel 4 says it&#8217;s turning its attention on Kashmir, where separatists and Indian forces have battled for almost a quarter century, because the issue is in danger of becoming a &#8220;forgotten conflict,&#8221; overshadowed by Syria and the euro-zone debt crisis.

It appears the dark secrets in the documentary are the unmarked graves of thousands of Kashmiri civilians that were unearthed by local human rights activists in 2008 and acknowledged in a report last year by the official State Human Rights Commission. A story Monday in The Guardian, a U.K. newspaper, which linked to the Channel 4 documentary, also focused on the mass graves.

The graves are evidence of the brutal crackdown by India&#8217;s armed forces after thousands of young Kashmiris, backed by Pakistan&#8217;s government, launched a separatist struggle against New Delhi in the late 1980s. By some estimates, over 50,000 people died in the conflict, most of them civilians.

India continues to maintain over 500,000 security personnel in Kashmir, giving it the feel of an occupied territory.

Some inside India&#8217;s government back demilitarization and want to strip India&#8217;s armed forces of special laws which shield them, while serving in Kashmir, from prosecution for human rights abuses. The army has successfully parried these moves, claiming Pakistan-backed militants remain a threat to stability in Kashmir.

In fact, Kashmiri police officers say infiltrations from Pakistan are down significantly and only a small number of Pakistan-trained militants remain in the region.

Violence has dropped greatly in Jammu and Kashmir state, with eight civilian deaths so far this year, the lowest level in over two decades, according to these statistics from the South Asia Terrorism Portal, a New Delhi-based group.

It seems strange at this time to emphasize &#8211; as Channel 4 does &#8211; that Kashmir is becoming a &#8220;forgotten conflict.&#8221;

Abuses still continue, such as the killings of Kashmiri men from Nadihal village in 2010, allegedly by army officers. Two years ago, scores of Kashmiri protesters died in clashes with police, following anger at the Nadihal killings. The military has failed time and again to court-martial men for abuses and needs to be held to account.

One could also argue, though, that such abuses are getting an intense amount of scrutiny from people outside and inside India.

The Central Bureau of Investigation, India&#8217;s FBI, has been pushing ahead with a case against five army officers accused of killing five innocent Kashmiris in 2000 and later pretending they were foreign militants.

The army blocked the case, citing its immunity laws. But in May, India&#8217;s Supreme Court, which was hearing the CBI&#8217;s appeal, ordered the army to either allow the case to go ahead or court-martial the men.

Last month, the army said it was finally moving ahead with court-martial proceedings.

The army&#8217;s slow response is inadequate and speaks to a culture of covering up rights abuses in Kashmir. But the issues facing Kashmir are no longer being brushed under the carpet.

Channel 4 Turns Spotlight on Kashmir - India Real Time - WSJ


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## livingdead

I think this is a very serious crime, we should not hide it. It has happened and continues to happen. 
Removing army from civilian areas should be the first step.

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## ajtr




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## ajtr




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## vsdoc

BS anti IA propaganda.

Kashmir is on the home stretch now.

Either things come around or its the Han solution next.


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## ajtr




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## ajtr




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## dabong1

vsdoc said:


> BS anti IA propaganda.



There all actors and ISI agents in the video......



vsdoc said:


> Kashmir is on the home stretch now.



Keep telling yourself that.



vsdoc said:


> Either things come around or its the Han solution next.



If you mean you want to flood kashmir with non kashmiris(hindus) and change the demographics , you have been trying for decades and it has failed.....miserably.


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## dabong1

nick_indian said:


> The British media has an agenda not only against India but also against Pakistan . They leave no stones unturned to malign Pakistan as well . Remember the BBC documentary Secret Pakistan ?
> 
> They just can't digest the fact that the sub-continent is still functioning albeir with its own set of problems but is evolving and growing much faster than Britain . They know that in few decades the living standards here will match the West and that is something they seem to take as some sort of a personal insult .
> 
> Remember their absolutely biased coverage of the CWG games and the way they reacted after India bought the French Rafale instead of the Typhoon .




So because they did not buy a few planes or criticized the CWG games they must be lying about kashmir and the people in the documentary are all fakes?
People from your country say that torture-killings-rape go on all the time in kashmir......there also under some foreign influence?
I am pretty sure if we got independent groups to go into kashmir choosen by india you would still deny anythings going on.


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## INDIC

dabong1 said:


> If you mean you want to flood kashmir with non kashmiris(hindus) and change the demographics , you have been trying for decades and it has failed.....miserably.




That happened in P0K by flooding non-natives and even leading to severe Shia Sunni clashes in Gilgit and Baltistan.


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## INDIC

dabong1 said:


> So because they did not buy a few planes or criticized the CWG games they must be lying about kashmir and the people in the documentary are all fakes?
> People from your country say that torture-killings-rape go on all the time in kashmir......there also under some foreign influence?
> I am pretty sure if we got independent groups to go into kashmir choosen by india you would still deny anythings going on.



Who is currently bombing their own civilians using airstrikes killing lot many innocent. Is it India or Pakistan. Have you ever heard India using airstrikes in Baramulla or Anantnag like that one in FATA


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## dabong1

INDIC said:


> That happened in P0K by flooding non-natives and even leading to severe Shia Sunni clashes in Gilgit and Baltistan.



Dont think so......I am from AJK and i have not seen no "non-natives" flooding the area......that just the indian media filling your head with propgangda.


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## INDIC

dabong1 said:


> Dont think so......I am from AJK and i have not seen no "non-natives" flooding the area......that just the indian media filling your head with propgangda.




Since it is a media censorland. See the Freedom house rating for P0K.


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## dabong1

INDIC said:


> Who is currently bombing their own civilians using airstrikes killing lot many innocent. Is it India or Pakistan.



Why are you killing people in Arunachal Pradesh, Assam, Meghalaya, Manipur, Mizoram, Nagaland ,punjab, Tripura ect?


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## INDIC

dabong1 said:


> Why are you killing people in Arunachal Pradesh, Assam, Meghalaya, Manipur, Mizoram, Nagaland ,punjab, Tripura ect?



Randomly naming any state of India.


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## dabong1

INDIC said:


> Since it is a media censorland. See the Freedom house rating for P0K.



LOL.......we have access to satellite tv-internet-mass media

In Asia, India (140th, -9) is at its lowest since 2002 because of increasing impunity for violence against journalists and because Internet censorship continues to grow.......wow your at 140 and pakistan at 159.
Your in the red zone and so is pakistan.


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## dabong1

INDIC said:


> Randomly naming any state of India.



Insurgency in Northeast India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

What are the indian army doing against Naxalite&#8211;Maoist fighters?


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## INDIC

dabong1 said:


> Insurgency in Northeast India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> What are the indian army doing against Naxalite&#8211;Maoist fighters?



Wikipedia is your source.  

First of we are not using army against Maoists, and certainly no part of India is being bombed in airstrikes like FATA.

Musharraf once killed lots of Shias in Gilgit and Baltistan.



dabong1 said:


> LOL.......we have access to satellite tv-internet-mass media
> 
> In Asia, India (140th, -9) is at its lowest since 2002 because of increasing impunity for violence against journalists and because Internet censorship continues to grow.......wow your at 140 and pakistan at 159.
> Your in the red zone and so is pakistan.



I mentioned freedom house rating which calls P0K as 'not free'.

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## dabong1

INDIC said:


> Wikipedia is your source.



No.... as a starting point.
The Hindu : Andhra Pradesh News : Concern of &#8216;Seven Sisters&#8217; over insurgency
They are the Seven Sisters of India, abound in natural resources and whose people are industrious and no less intelligent than other citizens of the country. But, they lag behind in development and their woes are compounded by insurgency, which has been a major concern for the future generations of all the &#8216;Seven Sisters&#8217;, namely Arunachal Pradesh, Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya, Nagaland, Sikkim and Tripura.






INDIC said:


> First of we are not using army against Maoists,



IAF to double choppersâ?? strength for anti-Maoist operations - Times Of India
NEW DELHI: IAF is going to virtually double the number of its helicopters deployed for logistical and surveillance support in the ongoing anti-Maoist operations, with a particular focus on the Naxalite hotbed of Jagdalpur in Chhattisgarh.

IAF chief Air Chief Marshal (ACM) NAK Browne on Wednesday said a new unit of the latest armed Mi-17 V5 helicopters, which can operate round-the-clock with night-vision devices, would be operational within a month in Nagpur. "This helicopter unit will provide full support to the troops on the ground in Jagdalpur," he said.




INDIC said:


> and certainly no part of India is being bombed in airstrikes like FATA.



Thats a bit like me saying that the pakistan army has never sent its tanks and army into a sikh temple (golden temple) and started using machine guns-mortars ect.



INDIC said:


> Musharraf once killed lots of Shias in Gilgit and Baltistan.



Thats a bit like me saying the prime minister after gandhi killed lots of sikhs.




INDIC said:


> I mentioned freedom house rating which calls P0K as 'not free'.



And i mentioned that india is in the red zone just like pakistan.
I love the way you love to mention azad kashmir and its press freedom but somehow fail to mention that many months back the indian govt stopped all newspapers, internet or cable television in occupied kashmir for under a week......real press freedom.
Maybe this will refresh your memoryhttp://ibnlive.in.com/videos/372480/is-there-no-press-freedom-in-kashmir.html


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## INDIC

dabong1 said:


> No.... as a starting point.
> The Hindu : Andhra Pradesh News : Concern of &#8216;Seven Sisters&#8217; over insurgency
> They are the Seven Sisters of India, abound in natural resources and whose people are industrious and no less intelligent than other citizens of the country. But, they lag behind in development and their woes are compounded by insurgency, which has been a major concern for the future generations of all the &#8216;Seven Sisters&#8217;, namely Arunachal Pradesh, Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya, Nagaland, Sikkim and Tripura.



I know the crux of this news article and the date. Oh! but still you were randomly naming 7 North-Eastern states. 





dabong1 said:


> IAF to double choppersâ?? strength for anti-Maoist operations - Times Of India
> NEW DELHI: IAF is going to virtually double the number of its helicopters deployed for logistical and surveillance support in the ongoing anti-Maoist operations, with a particular focus on the Naxalite hotbed of Jagdalpur in Chhattisgarh.
> 
> IAF chief Air Chief Marshal (ACM) NAK Browne on Wednesday said a new unit of the latest armed Mi-17 V5 helicopters, which can operate round-the-clock with night-vision devices, would be operational within a month in Nagpur. "This helicopter unit will provide full support to the troops on the ground in Jagdalpur," he said.



IAF is used only for rescue operation, they are not in direct fight with Maoist, nor they are bombing villages of India like your Pakistani army in FATA or Balochistan.




dabong1 said:


> And i mentioned that india is in the red zone just like pakistan.
> I love the way you love to mention azad kashmir and its press freedom but somehow fail to mention that many months back the indian govt stopped all newspapers, internet or cable television in occupied kashmir for under a week......real press freedom.
> Maybe this will refresh your memoryhttp://ibnlive.in.com/videos/372480/is-there-no-press-freedom-in-kashmir.html



Press freedom in Jammu and Kashmir is miles ahead of press freedom in P0K. And why P0K don't have representation in Pakistan's national assembly, without representation, it status is that of a colony.



dabong1 said:


> Thats a bit like me saying that the pakistan army has never sent its tanks and army into a sikh temple (golden temple) and started using machine guns-mortars ect.



Are you really claiming Pakistani army never conducted military action in any religious site of Pakistan, try to recall. 

Last year there were violent riots in Gilgit and Baltistan led to lots of killing of Shia because newcomers coming from other parts of Pakistan settling there leading to sectarian violence in Gilgit and Baltistan.

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## Ammyy

Height of frustration ... LOL 

Year old thread

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## karan.1970

@dabong1.. Responding to months old comments??


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## Ayush

Ammyy said:


> Height of frustration ... LOL
> 
> Year old thread



after all,he is from AJK..


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## dabong1

INDIC said:


> I know the crux of this news article and the date. Oh! but still you were randomly naming 7 North-Eastern states.



Errr.....i am not "randomly naming 7 North-Eastern states".....the times of india is.





INDIC said:


> IAF is used only for rescue operation, they are not in direct fight with Maoist, nor they are bombing villages of India like your Pakistani army in FATA or Balochistan.



Do tell us what "rescue operations" the "latest armed Mi-17 V5 helicopters" are carring out?
And your going to tell us next the indian army moved into the area for "humanitarian" reasons.



INDIC said:


> Press freedom in Jammu and Kashmir is miles ahead of press freedom in P0K.



So i can assume you did not watch the video telling you that kashmir media was blocked for days by the indian occupation regime.




INDIC said:


> And why P0K don't have representation in Pakistan's national assembly, without representation, it status is that of a colony.



AJK has its own parliament-prime minister-president-high court-flag ect........why would it have representation in Pakistan's national assembly?




INDIC said:


> Are you really claiming Pakistani army never conducted military action in any religious site of Pakistan, try to recall.



You where trying to make out that pakistan somehow uses its army against its citizens and the the indians dont........i gave you a quick example to show how the indian army has attacked indian citizens in india but now i am somehow claiming that pakistan has never done ops against religious site (lal masjid).
You assumption that indian army has not used force against own citizens has been prove incorrect......trying to divert the question doesnt change the fact.




INDIC said:


> Last year there were violent riots in Gilgit and Baltistan led to lots of killing of Shia because newcomers coming from other parts of Pakistan settling there leading to sectarian violence in Gilgit and Baltistan.



Do you really want me to list all the violent incidents in india?
I think you need first do a bit more research on the issue before parroting the indian media line.


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## dabong1

Ayush said:


> after all,he is from AJK..



Hahahahha........so funny


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## Ayush

dabong1 said:


> Hahahahha........so funny



thanks..


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## INDIC

dabong1 said:


> Errr.....i am not "randomly naming 7 North-Eastern states".....the times of india is.



You did named them randomly. 






dabong1 said:


> Do tell us what "rescue operations" the "latest armed Mi-17 V5 helicopters" are carring out?
> And your going to tell us next the indian army moved into the area for "humanitarian" reasons.



For evacuating the security forces in case of need. So, stop making imaginary assumptions.




dabong1 said:


> So i can assume you did not watch the video telling you that kashmir media was blocked for days by the indian occupation regime.



As I already told you, media freedom in Jammu and Kashmir is miles ahead of so called Azad Kashmir.






dabong1 said:


> AJK has its own parliament-prime minister-president-high court-flag ect........why would it have representation in Pakistan's national assembly?



Many reports confirm that that the elected government of P0K has no say in affairs of the region. Its mostly act as a titular government.



dabong1 said:


> You where trying to make out that pakistan somehow uses its army against its citizens and the the indians dont........i gave you a quick example to show how the indian army has attacked indian citizens in india but now i am somehow claiming that pakistan has never done ops against religious site (lal masjid).
> You assumption that indian army has not used force against own citizens has been prove incorrect......trying to divert the question doesnt change the fact.



India is not using airforce on her own citizens.






dabong1 said:


> I think you need first do a bit more research on the issue before parroting the indian media line.



I know what's going on there.


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## Icewolf

Im surprised we even get news from IOK - that place barely has any media stations (except govt propoganda) and is in a lockdown 24/7. 

pakistan has to liberate IOK


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## dabong1

INDIC said:


> You did named them randomly.



Integrating the Seven Sisters 
Brig. Amrit Kapur VSM
Before we try to understand the genesis of the* insurgency in the northeastern states known as the Seven Sisters*, it would be prudent to identify the reason and ...


And i guess Brig. Amrit Kapur has just named the same states i mentioned randomly?




INDIC said:


> For evacuating the security forces in case of need. So, stop making imaginary assumptions.



Just like the indan army is in kashmir for "humanitarian" reasons and does not go around raping-murdering-torturing people.




INDIC said:


> As I already told you, media freedom in Jammu and Kashmir is miles ahead of so called Azad Kashmir.



Thats why you put a total ban of media coverage in Kashmir for days.





INDIC said:


> Many reports confirm that that the elected government of P0K has no say in affairs of the region. Its mostly act as a titular government.



And the "many reports" are from indians or people that have never visited AJK.




INDIC said:


> India is not using airforce on her own citizens.



WOW......as if it make a difference to the person on the ground getting killed.......was from a gun or a plane really doent make a difference.
Going of your standards, the freedom fighters must morally better as the dont use aircraft in kashmir?




INDIC said:


> I know what's going on there.



No you dont


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## INDIC

dabong1 said:


> Integrating the Seven Sisters
> Brig. Amrit Kapur VSM
> Before we try to understand the genesis of the* insurgency in the northeastern states known as the Seven Sisters*, it would be prudent to identify the reason and ...
> 
> 
> And i guess Brig. Amrit Kapur has just named the same states i mentioned randomly?



He knows what he is talking about but you were randomly naming the 7 North-Eastern states.  




dabong1 said:


> Just like the indan army is in kashmir for "humanitarian" reasons and does not go around raping-murdering-torturing people.



Indian army is far better than Pakistan's army.



dabong1 said:


> Thats why you put a total ban of media coverage in Kashmir for days.


 
So, are you claiming freedom house ranking is not true.  




dabong1 said:


> And the "many reports" are from indians or people that have never visited AJK.



Leaving aside your logic the government is only titular.



dabong1 said:


> WOW......as if it make a difference to the person on the ground getting killed.......was from a gun or a plane really doent make a difference.
> Going of your standards, the freedom fighters must morally better as the dont use aircraft in kashmir?
> No you dont



Yes, it makes a difference, there is huge difference between atom bomb and normal bomb.


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