# Russia to refurbish Il-78 refuelling tanker aircraft for Pakistan Air Force



## Sulman Badshah

*Russia to refurbish Il-78 refuelling tanker aircraft for Pakistan Air Force*
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Jan 16, 2017
27



Ilyushin IL-78 (R09-001) Pakistan Air Force (c) Václav Paluzga
A Pakistan Air Force Ilyushin Il-78 air-to-air refuelling tanker aircraft are will be refurbished at the Russian 360th Aircraft Repair Plant in Ryazan.

The Pakistan Air Force has signed an agreement with JSC Rosoboronexport and 360th Aircraft Repair Plant for the refurbished of its fleet of Ilyushin Il-78 air-to-air refuelling tanker aircraft.

The Ilyushin IL-78 air-to-air refuelling tanker aircraft is a four-engine tanker principally used for in-flight refuelling. It was designed and developed on the basis of a similar predecessor, the IL-76, and has the Nato reporting name Midas.

A total of four Il-78MPs have been delivered to the Pakistan Air Force from Ukrainian surplus aircraft stocks, fitted with removable fuel tanks and UPAZ unified aerial-refueling pods (the length of the hose deployed in the airflow is about 26 m, the hose inner diameter is 52 mm, the fuel transfer rate is up to 2300 l/min). The first of the four aircraft was delivered in December 2009.

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## Hyde

If the first of the four aircraft was delivered in 2009, it already needs refurbishment so soon?

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## HannibalBarca

Zaki said:


> If the first of the four aircraft was delivered in 2009, it already needs refurbishment so soon?


Well it's not like Pakistan got it as new... it's has been used and reused by russian till they don't need it anymore and resell it. Problems will just begun for this aircraft in the coming years. even russia has a lot of problem with it, if it's cheap doesn't mean it's a perfectly good product

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## Imran Khan

ohhhh man its not weapon russia will never arm paksitan

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Zaki said:


> If the first of the four aircraft was delivered in 2009, it already needs refurbishment so soon?


The PAF got them from Ukraine in basically 'as-is' condition, albeit with some refurbishment. However, it is the Russians that have newer engines and the IL-76/78's actual manufacturing set-up, thus they can swap out parts, put in new (and more efficient) engines, new avionics, etc.

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## Jinn Baba

BS news. India is the richest country in the world and Putin said in his speech that he doesn't even go to the toilet without Indian permission. This is fake news by Pakistan!

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## AMG_12

İnitially the İL-78 Pakistan received didn't even have lavatories. They were installed later. Engine upgrade and avionics upgrade are much needed to keep them running. I hope it's performed partially in Chaklala.

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## Callsign Chaos

Zaki said:


> If the first of the four aircraft was delivered in 2009, it already needs refurbishment so soon?


The aircraft's are 30 years old.
httpswwwonespotter,com/aircraft/fid/179246/R09-001


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## Muhammad Omar

Well that's a good news it'll increase the lifespan of the planes 

Any info how much it'll increase the life span and what upgrades Russia will do??

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## salam.pakistan

Very beautiful plane.


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## YeBeWarned

How many Tankers we have ?

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## Areesh

Starlord said:


> How many Tankers we have ?



4

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## YeBeWarned

Areesh said:


> 4



4 only ? are they enough for air force like Pakistan ?


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## Hassan Guy

We should get more.


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## newb3e

I wonder why banyas desappear whenever there is thread about russia-pak cooperation?

Banyas you have so much money why dont you buy russia rulla he mukka do!


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## cloud4000

newb3e said:


> I wonder why banyas desappear whenever there is thread about russia-pak cooperation?
> 
> Banyas you have so much money why dont you buy russia rulla he mukka do!



Because it's not a big deal. Refurbishment of 4 old IL-78 tankers is not a game changer.


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## TOPGUN

cloud4000 said:


> Because it's not a big deal. Refurbishment of 4 old IL-78 tankers is not a game changer.




No one said it was a game a changer .............

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## newb3e

cloud4000 said:


> Because it's not a big deal. Refurbishment of 4 old IL-78 tankers is not a game changer.



But you guys always told us that you the banyas own russian and they are more like your slave and wont do anything without your permission! How are they cooperating with Pakistan then?


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## AKD

newb3e said:


> But you guys always told us that you the banyas own russian and they are more like your slave and wont do anything without your permission! How are they cooperating with Pakistan then?


When did we say that ??? And its too furnishing an old plane.. While a Russian minister is coming to India for deal about stealth jets

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## newb3e

AKD said:


> When did we say that ??? And its too furnishing an old plane.. While a Russian minister is coming to India for deal about stealth jets


Your swagger mate! You banyas act like russian masters!


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## aziqbal

Ukraine inherited 21 Midas tankers from the Soviet Union, the entire Soviet tanker fleet was based in Ukraine

Ukraine never operated these tankers and they were kept in storage

They are in a bad shape because Ukraine only did minor work prior to delivery

Anyone seen the cock pit and avionics ?? They are still using gauges from 1970s very poor condition

The PAF tankers are so loud they aren't even allowed to land at many European airports, those engines need to go 

So this refurb is well over due

I guess since we couldn't do it earlier because we didn't have good friendship with Russia

Even the electrics were ripped out and analog gauges were being used it was almost dangerous to fly the PAF Midas tanker fleet

This is actually great news

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## cloud4000

TOPGUN said:


> No one said it was a game a changer .............



I was just responding to @newb3e. He was wondering why Indians were not responding to this news item. He thinks it was inconsequential. I think it's not.



newb3e said:


> But you guys always told us that you the banyas own russian and they are more like your slave and wont do anything without your permission! How are they cooperating with Pakistan then?



I don't speak for all Indians, nor do they speak for me. There are many Indian and Pakistanis on PDF who lack nuance, who think dealing with foreign countries is binary -- you are either for us or against us. This deal must be looked at its merits for both India and Pakistan. In the end, it doesn't change anything.

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## TOPGUN

cloud4000 said:


> I was just responding to @newb3e. He was wondering why Indians were not responding to this news item. He thinks it was inconsequential. I think it's not.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't speak for all Indians, nor do they speak for me. There are many Indian and Pakistanis on PDF who lack nuance, who think dealing with foreign countries is binary -- you are either for us or against us. This deal must be looked at its merits for both India and Pakistan. In the end, it doesn't change anything.




Got it, yes I agree with you ignore him please thanks.

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## Lord Of Gondor

> In a fresh proposal that has been moved earlier this month, the air force has sought the defence ministry's approval for a comprehensive upgrade of its fleet of 17 IL 76 transport aircraft, as well as the seven IL 78 aerial refuelers that it is operating.


Maybe the aircrew from the two countries meet up in Russia and exchange notes...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...6/78-transport-fleet/articleshow/48676134.cms

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## Skyliner

We cruel Pakistanies, how dare we try to do business with our banniyas neighbour's BFF.
Now they will unleash their Hanuman army on us agian

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## thesolar65

I wish they would. Time to test the new found friendship..BTW how much money they are asking for? and sign an agreement with them.


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## war&peace

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF got them from Ukraine in basically 'as-is' condition, albeit with some refurbishment. However, it is the Russians that have newer engines and the IL-76/78's actual manufacturing set-up, thus they can swap out parts, put in new (and more efficient) engines, new avionics, etc.



I heard that it cannot be used for AAR with F16 so is there any modifications planned to allow to with them ?

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## shah1398

These tankers really needed refurbishment to make them serve PAF for atleast next 10-15 years. I wud be more than happy if they install new avionics suites and some ECM stuff on it. Eagerly waiting for the details of intended refurbishments. Am not sure if these aircraft need something like SLAP. Senior members are requested to put some light on it.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

war&peace said:


> I heard that it cannot be used for AAR with F16 so is there any modifications planned to allow to with them ?


None. To refuel the F-16s the PAF needs a tanker with a boom-refueling probe - i.e. KC-135, A-330 MRTT, or Pegasus MRTT. The PAF couldn't secure the KC-135, and the A-330 MRTT and Pegasus MRTT are very expensive, USD $200m+ (albeit including the logistics and maintenance support package).


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## shah1398

war&peace said:


> I heard that it cannot be used for AAR with F16 so is there any modifications planned to allow to with them ?



F-16 AAR mode is Boom and Receptacle type while IL-78 usually employ Drogue and Probe method. Not sure if it also has Boom and Receptacle AAR capability.

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## war&peace

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> None. To refuel the F-16s the PAF needs a tanker with a boom-refueling probe - i.e. KC-135, A-330 MRTT, or Pegasus MRTT. The PAF couldn't secure the KC-135, and the A-330 MRTT and Pegasus MRTT are very expensive, USD $200m+ (albeit including the logistics and maintenance support package).


Were they denied of KC-135? But is there any second hand option available for the aforementioned A/Cs or PAF planning any budgetary allocation for these in future?

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## Blue Marlin

aziqbal said:


> Ukraine inherited 21 Midas tankers from the Soviet Union, the entire Soviet tanker fleet was based in Ukraine
> 
> Ukraine never operated these tankers and they were kept in storage
> 
> They are in a bad shape because Ukraine only did minor work prior to delivery
> 
> Anyone seen the cock pit and avionics ?? They are still using gauges from 1970s very poor condition
> 
> The PAF tankers are so loud they aren't even allowed to land at many European airports, those engines need to go
> 
> So this refurb is well over due
> 
> I guess since we couldn't do it earlier because we didn't have good friendship with Russia
> 
> Even the electrics were ripped out and analog gauges were being used it was almost dangerous to fly the PAF Midas tanker fleet
> 
> This is actually great news


technically they are not allowed to fly in European airspace but military planes are an exception. i dont think they have hush kits for the d30 engines. so they developed the ll-76 with ps-90 engines and fbw system and renamed it the ll-476


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## Cookie Monster

Jinn Baba said:


> BS news. India is the richest country in the world and Putin said in his speech that he doesn't even go to the toilet without Indian permission. This is fake news by Pakistan!


Lmao "doesn't even go to the toilet without Indian approval"...poor Putin.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Always good to keep items well maintained, a timely move to help improve performance or extend the life of the planes.


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## Mir Ahmad Mahmood

I think Pakistan should more focus on including new fighter plans in the fleet except JF 17 after that its look like we are stuck in it only.


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## Khafee

war&peace said:


> I heard that it cannot be used for AAR with F16 so is there any modifications planned to allow to with them ?


Lala boom nishta

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## war&peace

Khafee said:


> Lala boom nishta
> 
> View attachment 368919


This is UAE AF ?

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

war&peace said:


> Were they denied of KC-135? But is there any second hand option available for the aforementioned A/Cs or PAF planning any budgetary allocation for these in future?


I am willing to bet 'quiet denial.'


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## Super Falcon

Yes I can't understand why refuler needed a refurbished it's not a cargo plane which is used continuously I smoke some corruption


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## S A L M A N.

The IL-78 is a behemoth. And with its antiquated, 70s era Soviet technology is a really difficult bird to fly.
A PAF IL-78 pilot said so himself in a Special Dunya News Defence Day 2015 program. 
Wajahat Saeed Khan 'tripped' the pilot into saying so. Lol.
No wonder the PAF is upgrading them. We need more aerial tankers, however.


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## Talon

Starlord said:


> 4 only ? are they enough for air force like Pakistan ?


4 are more than enough..PAF is a small airforce with enemies living right next to the border...technically we dont even need these tankers..paf aircrafts can easily perform sorties in india without need for IFR as done in previous wars..these are just for SHOO SHAA stuff...like sab k pass hy to hamare pass bhe hona chaye



war&peace said:


> I heard that it cannot be used for AAR with F16 so is there any modifications planned to allow to with them ?


F16 uses BOOM refueling technique like that of KC135 while iL78s use probe-and-drogue technique involving pods so yeah we cant use them with f16s...these are only functional with mirages and JFTs



war&peace said:


> Were they denied of KC-135? But is there any second hand option available for the aforementioned A/Cs or PAF planning any budgetary allocation for these in future?


paf doesnt wish to spend heavy costs on IFR A/C as we dont need them much and yeah we were denied kc135


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## Khafee

Khafee said:


> Lala boom nishta
> 
> View attachment 368919


No, that was RAAF.

This is UAEAF A330 MRTT equipped both with boom and drogue:

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## PurpleButcher

This aircraft caused my accident today... I was driving on rawal road next to chaklala airport at 2:10 pm and this beast was taking off. The bike rider infront of me instead of focusing on the road started looking at this beast and changed his lane suddenly..... BOOM... my bumper 

Too much IL-78 for one day.. first on roads then over here

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## Bratva

war&peace said:


> I heard that it cannot be used for AAR with F16 so is there any modifications planned to allow to with them ?





Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> None. To refuel the F-16s the PAF needs a tanker with a boom-refueling probe - i.e. KC-135, A-330 MRTT, or Pegasus MRTT. The PAF couldn't secure the KC-135, and the A-330 MRTT and Pegasus MRTT are very expensive, USD $200m+ (albeit including the logistics and maintenance support package).





shah1398 said:


> F-16 AAR mode is Boom and Receptacle type while IL-78 usually employ Drogue and Probe method. Not sure if it also has Boom and Receptacle AAR capability.



This modification could be done though

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## Talon

Bratva said:


> This modification could be done though


dude this is boom to probe modification..we already have probe..


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Bratva said:


> This modification could be done though


But for boom refueling for the F-16?

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/design/refuel/boom-receiver.jpg

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## Khafee

Lets move on from Boom, shall we.

What exactly will these refurbishments include? Glass cockpit? New engines? Structural strengthening? A Boom? OR just a D-check?


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## GumNaam

Zaki said:


> If the first of the four aircraft was delivered in 2009, it already needs refurbishment so soon?


Ana THAT would be just ONE of the many reasons why Pakistan doesn't want to pursue the SU35.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

GumNaam said:


> Ana THAT would be just ONE of the many reasons why Pakistan doesn't want to pursue the SU35.


Not exactly. 

The Ukrainian IL-78s were already very used when the PAF procured them (i.e. ex-Soviet surplus), the planes were basically just bought as-is. Now the IL-78s are going through a proper manufacturer-certified overhaul.


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## Hell hound

GumNaam said:


> Ana THAT would be just ONE of the many reasons why Pakistan doesn't want to pursue the SU35.


as explained by other posters we got them second hand from Ukraine. these jets are about 20 to 30 year old


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## Basel

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Not exactly.
> 
> The Ukrainian IL-78s were already very used when the PAF procured them (i.e. ex-Soviet surplus), the planes were basically just bought as-is. Now the IL-78s are going through a proper manufacturer-certified overhaul.



Is it better to buy latest version of Russian MRTT aircraft from Russia or buy used airbus 310-320 and convert them into MRTT???


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## The Diplomat

Starlord said:


> 4 only ? are they enough for air force like Pakistan ?


4 is more than enough for now. We have 2 types of aircraft that can use these tanker aircraft; the JF-17 Block II and the Mirage (which will be retired by 2025).


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Basel said:


> Is it better to buy latest version of Russian MRTT aircraft from Russia or buy used airbus 310-320 and convert them into MRTT???


I'd try buying 2-3 used Airbus A330s and finding companies with experience sourcing and integrating boom and hose-and-drogue refueling technology. It will be a custom solution, but probably much cheaper than an off-the-shelf Airbus A330 MRTT.

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## TOPGUN

I still think that PAF needs at least 2 tankers for its vipers ........

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## Basel

Lahore_PAF said:


> 4 is more than enough for now. We have 2 types of aircraft that can use these tanker aircraft; the JF-17 Block II and the Mirage (which will be retired by 2025).



4 are not enough, they are not just tankers they are also cargo transport planes (MRTT), all 4 can not be available all the time, it is also important what is their availability ratio.


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## aziqbal

There was talk of a 5th Midas tanker back when the deal was struck with Ukraine but nothing came of it 

Certainly another 4 units for PAF would be beneficial, one squadron for northern command and one for southern command 

With naval missions Midas tanker will be crucial especially with the JF17 carrying two anti ship missiles

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

aziqbal said:


> There was talk of a 5th Midas tanker back when the deal was struck with Ukraine but nothing came of it
> 
> Certainly another 4 units for PAF would be beneficial, one squadron for northern command and one for southern command
> 
> With naval missions Midas tanker will be crucial especially with the JF17 carrying two anti ship missiles


For northern command it'd make more sense to have a tanker capable of hose-and-drogue as well as boom, thus enabling the F-16s. It would be prudent to consider a bespoke solution using the A330. The Israelis are doing this with the Boeing 767 MMTT program, which is being led by IAI. The PAF will need to find the right subsystem suppliers and a competent integration firm, but it is doable.

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## aziqbal

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> For northern command it'd make more sense to have a tanker capable of hose-and-drogue as well as boom, thus enabling the F-16s. It would be prudent to consider a bespoke solution using the A330. The Israelis are doing this with the Boeing 767 MMTT program, which is being led by IAI. The PAF will need to find the right subsystem suppliers and a competent integration firm, but it is doable.



This is a expensive solution using A330

Also adding tanker for F16 will add significant strain on maintenance and overhaul, keeping a F16 in the air for long periods of time in the long term is probably not what PAF wants to excercise it a point we miss

Ukraine still have surplus Midas tankers PLAAF is getting 3 units, they also have IL-76 for cargo use which can be converted to tankers

KC-135 and A330 as well as A310 which is operated by PIA have long been explored and came to no fruitful conclusion my guess is again the cost


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## Blue Marlin

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I'd try buying 2-3 used Airbus A330s and finding companies with experience sourcing and integrating boom and hose-and-drogue refueling technology. It will be a custom solution, but probably much cheaper than an off-the-shelf Airbus A330 MRTT.


thats what Australia did some of their a330 mrtt's are ex qantas

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

aziqbal said:


> This is a expensive solution using A330
> 
> Also adding tanker for F16 will add significant strain on maintenance and overhaul, keeping a F16 in the air for long periods of time in the long term is probably not what PAF wants to excercise it a point we miss
> 
> Ukraine still have surplus Midas tankers PLAAF is getting 3 units, they also have IL-76 for cargo use which can be converted to tankers
> 
> KC-135 and A330 as well as A310 which is operated by PIA have long been explored and came to no fruitful conclusion my guess is again the cost


The PAF actually sought A-310 MRTTs back in the mid-2000s, but Airbus basically removed that platform from its catalog and began pushing the A330 MRTT. However, I am not advocating for the Airbus DS A330 MRTT, but a custom solution using the A330 as the platform. In this respect, the PAF will have some control over who it decides as the subsystem vendors and integration contractor.

Since logistics is an issue, the goal should be to ultimately supplant and replace the IL-78s. Yes, these are cheap platforms to buy, but they are not as efficient to operate as a civilian airliner. More saved fuel equates to more fuel for the fighters in need of the tanker. Besides that, one can still utilize the A330 for ferrying personnel and supplies while it operates as a AAR tanker. In terms of maintenance and logistics, there's no beating the scale, adoption, and massively distributed supply channel of the A330.

Anyways, the boom refueling is just a major gain if you think about it. When the F-16s need it, they can use it (e.g. when deployed for exercises or genuine wartime endurance runs), but the same A330 would use hose-and-drogue, thereby supporting the JF-17s and other compatible aircraft (e.g. C-130).

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## cloud4000

Can a MRTT version of China's Y-20 work? I believe they have plans beyond pure transport for the aircraft.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

cloud4000 said:


> Can a MRTT version of China's Y-20 work? I believe they have plans beyond pure transport for the aircraft.


Only for hose-and-drogue. Not sure if it is possible to attach a boom refueling probe aft of the aircraft considering that's the location of the cargo ramp. One would basically need to sacrifice cargo lift in order to refuel, or perhaps try fitting a boom probe to the wings (I've never seen that done before).

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## razgriz19

aziqbal said:


> Ukraine inherited 21 Midas tankers from the Soviet Union, the entire Soviet tanker fleet was based in Ukraine
> 
> Ukraine never operated these tankers and they were kept in storage
> 
> They are in a bad shape because Ukraine only did minor work prior to delivery
> 
> Anyone seen the cock pit and avionics ?? They are still using gauges from 1970s very poor condition
> 
> The PAF tankers are so loud they aren't even allowed to land at many European airports, those engines need to go
> 
> So this refurb is well over due
> 
> I guess since we couldn't do it earlier because we didn't have good friendship with Russia
> 
> Even the electrics were ripped out and analog gauges were being used it was almost dangerous to fly the PAF Midas tanker fleet
> 
> This is actually great news



Just because the gauges are "analogue" doesn't mean its unsafe. Age of the parts and equipment doesn't mean anything in aviation unless the part has an expiry date or life limit, in that case it would be swapped out.
Have you seen the B-52 cockpit? It is full of those 60s analogue gauges.

Engines on the other hand should be replaced. They're not efficient and pose many restrictions like you said. However i don't think they will be replaced. This "overhaul" is basically like a D-check. Aircraft would be stripped to bare metal, inspected and things that needs to be replaced will be replaced, but in the end it will have it's original engines.


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## The Diplomat

Basel said:


> 4 are not enough, they are not just tankers they are also cargo transport planes (MRTT), all 4 can not be available all the time, it is also important what is their availability ratio.


My friend, we also have C130's for cargo. Yes the C130's can't hold as much as a IL78 but I think the C130's alone do meet the PAF requirements?
I'm not too sure my self.


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## khanasifm

I think main purpose of il78 was to help avoid ferrying JF 17 and other such program such as spade 2000, mi 17, ly80 etc acquisitions related cost which initially were payed to
Antonov refueling was a plus point
How many mirages were upgraded less then 10 to just introduce ata refueling

JF will benefit though

Finally from 1 transport Sqn you went to 3 for small af that is what can be afforded

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## DesiWarrior

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I'd try buying 2-3 used Airbus A330s and finding companies with experience sourcing and integrating boom and hose-and-drogue refueling technology. It will be a custom solution, but probably much cheaper than an off-the-shelf Airbus A330 MRTT.


Loved this idea



aziqbal said:


> This is a expensive solution using A330
> 
> Also adding tanker for F16 will add significant strain on maintenance and overhaul, keeping a F16 in the air for long periods of time in the long term is probably not what PAF wants to excercise it a point we miss
> 
> Ukraine still have surplus Midas tankers PLAAF is getting 3 units, they also have IL-76 for cargo use which can be converted to tankers
> 
> KC-135 and A330 as well as A310 which is operated by PIA have long been explored and came to no fruitful conclusion my guess is again the cost


I don't think keeping an aircraft flying for long time puts much strain on the aircraft structurally, it's the actual number of take offs and landings as well as the payload that's carried in a mission that has real effect on aircraft.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Are there any newer platforms that can serve as a Mid Air refueler ? Even slighly smaller size but newer platform from China / Russia / Germany etc


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## Basel

Lahore_PAF said:


> My friend, we also have C130's for cargo. Yes the C130's can't hold as much as a IL78 but I think the C130's alone do meet the PAF requirements?
> I'm not too sure my self.



Google how excessively IL-78 are used for cargo. There is a reason for that.


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## khanasifm

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...re-wants-to-dump-its-four-old-boeing-tankers/


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## aziqbal

Ever heard one of these take off? 

Definitely need new engines

European airports don’t even accept this

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## MIRauf

If US approves it, those KC-135 would be great for PAF to fly within Pakistan or up to M.E. / Turkey.

Use to Live close to Topeka KS, home of the 190th Air Refueling Wing, noise is tolerable.


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## xyxmt

Now soon Russia will call India and tell them there will be no refurbishment for Pakistan.


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## TsAr

AKD said:


> When did we say that ??? And its too furnishing an old plane.. While a Russian minister is coming to India for deal about stealth jets


You mean SU-57, the same stealth jets which a year back according to IAF were not stealth enough and not upto the IAF standards.

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## araz

khanasifm said:


> I think main purpose of il78 was to help avoid ferrying JF 17 and other such program such as spade 2000, mi 17, ly80 etc acquisitions related cost which initially were payed to
> Antonov refueling was a plus point
> How many mirages were upgraded less then 10 to just introduce ata refueling
> 
> JF will benefit though
> 
> Finally from 1 transport Sqn you went to 3 for small af that is what can be afforded


I thought more than 30 M3/5s were updated with A2AR. Please clarify.
Regards
A



aziqbal said:


> Ukraine inherited 21 Midas tankers from the Soviet Union, the entire Soviet tanker fleet was based in Ukraine
> 
> Ukraine never operated these tankers and they were kept in storage
> 
> They are in a bad shape because Ukraine only did minor work prior to delivery
> 
> Anyone seen the cock pit and avionics ?? They are still using gauges from 1970s very poor condition
> 
> The PAF tankers are so loud they aren't even allowed to land at many European airports, those engines need to go
> 
> So this refurb is well over due
> 
> I guess since we couldn't do it earlier because we didn't have good friendship with Russia
> 
> Even the electrics were ripped out and analog gauges were being used it was almost dangerous to fly the PAF Midas tanker fleet
> 
> This is actually great news


It is a silly question but I have always wondered whether we can mate the AL56?engines of the C130s with the Iliyushins. The advantages would be tremendous. The answer is probably NO but I just had to ask.
A


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## araz

khanasifm said:


> https://www.defensenews.com/global/...re-wants-to-dump-its-four-old-boeing-tankers/


Two key points here.
A Needs approval from US prior to disposal. Why do you think US will give approval when it has previously refused our request.
B. Not used since last June??Problems with spares? What does this entail with regards to revamping them?
A



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I'd try buying 2-3 used Airbus A330s and finding companies with experience sourcing and integrating boom and hose-and-drogue refueling technology. It will be a custom solution, but probably much cheaper than an off-the-shelf Airbus A330 MRTT.


An attempt for such has been made. The price quoted was exhorbitant. Source @Bilalkhan777. Secondly do we really need these for 45 of our 3osomething year old fighters which will never be used for aggressive encroachment into Indian territory. 27/2 has taught us that 16s can only be used for inland defence. So how much do we want to spend on these fighters and what is the cost to benefit ratio? I agree that the idea is good but what utility will it have.?
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