# Two teenage girls were killed in the name of 'honour in Pakistan



## aryadravida

Two teenage girls were killed in the name of 'honour' allegedly by a family member earlier this week in a village located on the border of the North and South Waziristan tribal districts after a short mobile video of them with a young man surfaced on social media, police said on Saturday.

The Razmak police station in North Waziristan, in whose jurisdiction the murders were reported, on Friday registered a First Information Report (FIR) of the incident with the state as the complainant and started an investigation.

According to the FIR, a copy of which is available with _Dawn.com_, the incident took place on May 14 around 2pm at Shaam Plain Garyom, a border village of North and South Waziristan in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

"A confirmed report was received that two girls aged 16 and 18 were killed in the name of honour by their paternal cousin, whose name and address is not known, in Shaam Plain Garyom," read the FIR registered on behalf of a station house officer.

Also read: _The crime of ‘shame-washing’_

It said the reason behind the killings was believed to be a video, provided to _Dawn.com_, which shows a young man recording himself with three young girls in a secluded area outdoors.

A senior police officer in Waziristan confirmed the incident and told _Dawn.com_ that two of the three girls seen in the 52-second mobile clip have been killed. He said police were collecting information about the third girl and the man seen in the video.

According to the police official, it appeared that the video in question was shot nearly a year ago and most probably went viral on social media a few weeks ago.

“As per the information received by police so far, the third girl and the boy are alive,” the officer said while quoting a report by the area tehsildar. He revealed that the families of the two victims reportedly moved to their native village Shakotai in South Waziristan after the incident for the burial of the bodies.

The area where the incident took place is far-flung and considered risky in terms of security, the police official said, adding that a police party has been dispatched to the area to further investigate the case.

“The names of the females are still not known as their families shifted the bodies to South Waziristan. A police party along with the area tehsildar has already been directed to visit the area and submit a final report,” he said.

“At the moment, our topmost priority is to secure the life of the third girl and the man before taking any action.”

"There is no mobile coverage in both Shakotai and Bargram area of South and North Waziristan," a police official supervising the investigation said.

"In tribal tradition, there is no place for girls and men who defame their tribe in the society," the official said, adding that the investigation of the case would be a big challenge for the newly introduced police as the acts in the video are "completely against the norms of the tribal society".

The incident comes nearly eight years after the 2012 Kohistan video scandal, in which three women were killed for honour after a grainy video showing them singing and clapping while two boys danced had gone viral in the ultra-conservative and remote district of Kohistan.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1557600/t...ge-killed-for-honour-over-leaked-mobile-video


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## aryadravida

Cant believe there are places in this 21st century where a girl is killed just for doing a few steps with a man...
A girl is not an object neither is she your property...she is as much a human as you are with all the desires and wishes you have.
I would say a girl should be given complete freedom once she crosses 18...why different rules for a girl? Boys can drink, do sex with whomever they want, do drugs, molestgirls...but girls cant even smile in public in such societies.
I blame women also of such societies...why are they silent?Why dont they stand up to such atrocities?Why dont they form organisations and create awareness among women about their rights?Why dont they fight for justice?
Really disturbing...

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## War Thunder

aryadravida said:


> Cant believe there are places in this 21st century where a girl is killed just for doing a few steps with a man...
> A girl is not an object neither is she your property...she is as much a human as you are with all the desires and wishes you have.
> I would say a girl should be given complete freedom once she crosses 18...why different rules for a girl? Boys can drink, do sex with whomever they want, do drugs, molesr girls...I blame women also of such societies...why are they silent?Why dont they stand up to such atrocities?Why dont they form organisations and create awareness among women about their rigjts?
> Really disturbing...




I would hear all that sermon.
If it was coming from a person who did not belong to the "rape capital" of the world.
Fix yourself, then you'll look very nice trying to post this.
Right now you're only looking like a hypocrite idiot with no sense of shame.

P.S:
_" Boys can drink, do sex with whomever they want, do drugs, molesr girls...I blame women also of such societies...why are they silent?Why dont they stand up to such atrocities?"_

You posted this in the wrong forum.
Might want to go and post it somewhere you can address your fellow countrymen.

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## aryadravida

War Thunder said:


> I would hear all that sermon.
> If it was coming from a person who did not belong to the "rape capital" of the world.
> Fix yourself, then you'll look very nice trying to post this.
> Right now you're only looking like a hypocrite idiot with no sense of shame.


Just because north india has rape culture ,pakistan should have honor killing culture?
I come from telangana..a south indian state...we south indians give a lot of freedom to our girls....we dont have many rapes in our society.
Have you read about priyanka reddy rape and murder case that happened in hyderabd in december?The entire state rose in one voice to kill the rapists...the pressure was too much on the govt that the 3 rapists were killed in a week after the incident.
We dont tolerate such behaviour...anyway,violence against women ,be it rape or honour killing is shame for a society...but i just cant bring myself to think a girl is killed just because she danced with a man(i.am sure he might be a family member of her)

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## SHAH BAAZ

Good parenting can prevent such type of things. Make the females learn Islam, ask them to read the Quran with a translation and get to know Islam. Give them freedoms to school and outdoors but arm them with Islam so they can learn how Allah has honored them. 

The more we get away from Islam, the more these type of things will happen.

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## MastanKhan

SHAH BAAZ said:


> Good parenting can prevent such type of things. Make the females learn Islam, ask them to read the Quran with a translation and get to know Islam. Give them freedoms to school and outdoors but arm them with Islam so they can learn how Allah has honored them.
> 
> The more we get away from Islam, the more these type of things will happen.



Hi,

Talk is cheap---. Wait till you become a parent of teens---.

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## SHAH BAAZ

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Talk is cheap---. OWait till you become a parent of teens---.



What do you suggest should be done? Should the whole country be liberalized? How do we stop from becoming a shameless society? 

Does Pakistan really want this western culture? 
"40 percent of high school students have had sexual intercourse and 10 percent have had sex with four or more people. This reality makes it important for parents to understand teen sex trends and to initiate conversations to help their kids understand the consequences of being sexually active at such a young age.

*Trends in Sexual Behavior*

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s most recently released Youth Risk Behavior Survey, which is conducted every other year with high school students across the nation, 39.5 percent of high school students reported having had sexual intercourse, with the prevalence being higher among males (about 41 percent) than females (nearly 38 percent). And 30 percent had sex in the three months prior to the study, with 46 percent of those students not using a condom. What’s more disturbing is that according to another CDC report, about half of the 20 million new sexually transmitted infections reported each year were among young people between the ages of 15 to 24.


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## MastanKhan

SHAH BAAZ said:


> What do you suggest should be done? Should the whole country be liberalized? How do we stop from becoming a shameless society?
> 
> Does Pakistan really want this western culture?
> "40 percent of high school students have had sexual intercourse and 10 percent have had sex with four or more people. This reality makes it important for parents to understand teen sex trends and to initiate conversations to help their kids understand the consequences of being sexually active at such a young age.
> 
> *Trends in Sexual Behavior*
> 
> According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s most recently released Youth Risk Behavior Survey, which is conducted every other year with high school students across the nation, 39.5 percent of high school students reported having had sexual intercourse, with the prevalence being higher among males (about 41 percent) than females (nearly 38 percent). And 30 percent had sex in the three months prior to the study, with 46 percent of those students not using a condom. What’s more disturbing is that according to another CDC report, about half of the 20 million new sexually transmitted infections reported each year were among young people between the ages of 15 to 24.



Hi,

Do you kill your own boys in the name of " Ghairat " when they screw someone else's daughter---?

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## SHAH BAAZ

SHAH BAAZ said:


> Good parenting can prevent such type of things. Make the females learn Islam, ask them to read the Quran with a translation and get to know Islam. Give them freedoms to school and outdoors but arm them with Islam so they can learn how Allah has honored them.
> 
> The more we get away from Islam, the more these type of things will happen.



This goes for males as well btw. Kids should be taught Allahs Words in early ages and not just how to read in arabic, make them learn the translation of the Word.



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Do you kill your own boys in the name of " Ghairat " when they screw someone else's daughter---?



Honestly, its gotten so bad in Pakistan that people dont even bother in these issues anymore, whether its a female or a male. People are turning their faces so they dont get involved. Culture is being destroyed, but I guess its all prophecised.

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## Myth_buster_1

hang the killers by their balls.

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## SHAH BAAZ

The main problem is morality is on the low in the whole of community.

Having gf's is often looked as cool and spoken about in every young male gathering and often a topic of boasting. People are not respecting neighbors, family, mohallas, I mean there has to be a limit. Most of the guys only live for having immoral life styles. 

Than you have females with all these phones who have access to alot of different people. 

I mean just weeks before corona virus, there was a pakistani female showing her body parts out in the open road. 

Wtf is going on man has Pakistan lost its way.

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## jamahir

aryadravida said:


> Cant believe there are places in this 21st century where a girl is killed just for doing a few steps with a man...



Honor killing happen in India too, whether in Haryana, whether in the national capital Delhi or whether in cosmopolitan Bangalore.



SHAH BAAZ said:


> Good parenting can prevent such type of things. Make the females learn Islam, ask them to read the Quran with a translation and get to know Islam. Give them freedoms to school and outdoors but arm them with Islam so they can learn how Allah has honored them.
> 
> The more we get away from Islam, the more these type of things will happen.



In other words you approve of this honor killing ( murder ).

Why are you ascribing anti-human tribal laws to Islam ?

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## Trango Towers

aryadravida said:


> Cant believe there are places in this 21st century where a girl is killed just for doing a few steps with a man...
> A girl is not an object neither is she your property...she is as much a human as you are with all the desires and wishes you have.
> I would say a girl should be given complete freedom once she crosses 18...why different rules for a girl? Boys can drink, do sex with whomever they want, do drugs, molestgirls...but girls cant even smile in public in such societies.
> I blame women also of such societies...why are they silent?Why dont they stand up to such atrocities?Why dont they form organisations and create awareness among women about their rights?Why dont they fight for justice?
> Really disturbing...


A Indian say this....
This is clearly a deplorable act. But in pakistan condemn it. 
Why do your women complain of a culture of rape if you are so truthful ? So cut your bs


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## Suriya

Trango Towers said:


> A Indian say this....
> This is clearly a deplorable act. But in pakistan condemn it.
> Why do your women complain of a culture of rape if you are so truthful ? So cut your bs


India women can complain since they can afford to and they know they wont be harassed for it.

Few months back there was a women's right rally in Islamabad which was stone pelted by hardliner Islamist groups and had to be abandoned in the middle of it. While they can hold gay/LGBT pride
in Delhi or Mumbai without disruption.

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## Trango Towers

Suriya said:


> India women can complain since they can afford to and they know they wont be harassed for it.
> 
> Few months back there was a women's right rally in Islamabad which was stone pelted by hardliner Islamist groups and had to be abandoned in the middle of it. While they can hold gay/LGBT pride
> in Delhi or Mumbai without disruption.


They can afford to?
They know they wont be harassed.

You are more stupid than I thought before.

You rape them and then yoh talk about harassment. You are the dumbest indian I have ever had the misfortune to come across. Wonder what you will say if your mother sister or daughter got raped. That wont be harassment

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## Naofumi

jamahir said:


> In other words you approve of this honor killing ( murder ).


He not only approves but think it an act of correctness.

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## Prince Kassad

I still cant even imagine that logic. I mean, if my toaster tomorrow said "Nah man, no more toasted beagles, I leaving to become a chef," I still wouldn't burn him alive if I said no and it left anyway.

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## Mentee

Locals are saying that the fair skinned wannabe liberal ptm leadership is supporting these murders due to their tribal alliances.


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## Naofumi

Brass Knuckles said:


> I am sure it also happens in West


Nope, at least it's not statistically significant.


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## jamahir

Brass Knuckles said:


> Also in middle East and north Africa. I am sure it also happens in West



I know for sure that it happens in Gaza - Palestine. It also happens in West Bank but more so in Gaza.

About North Africa, I will take your word for it.

About the West, I think it is mostly the South Asian diaspora who have carried it there.


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## Naofumi

jamahir said:


> South Asian diaspora





> 4. The Assembly notes that whilst so-called “honour crimes” emanate from cultural and not religious roots and are perpetrated worldwide (mainly in patriarchal societies or communities), the majority of reported cases in Europe have been amongst Muslim or migrant Muslim communities (although Islam itself does not support the death penalty for honour-related misconduct).


http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/Xref-XML2HTML-EN.asp?fileid=17106&lang=en


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## Naofumi

Brass Knuckles said:


> I am sure some of them are also killed for having extramarital sexual relations which is called honor killing.


That's an assertation. And define "some".

And if it's killed by relatives only then it's honor killing, not by friends or strangers.



Brass Knuckles said:


> An influential western man catches you with his female family member. What would he do with you?


This happens : nothing happens 
https://www.telegraphindia.com/world/royal-who-dumped-aatish-to-marry-king-ston/cid/1669710



> Gabriella, 37-year-old daughter of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent — *the latter apparently never quite approved of Taseer as a possible son-in-law* — is to marry her boyfriend of several years’ standing, Thomas Kingston, 40, who works in finance.





Brass Knuckles said:


> What would he do with you?


And this not called honor killing, killing his own family member would be.

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## jamahir

Naofumi said:


> http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/Xref-XML2HTML-EN.asp?fileid=17106&lang=en



The page focuses on Muslims but doesn't speak of the crime among SIkhs in Britain.



Naofumi said:


> This happens : nothing happens
> https://www.telegraphindia.com/world/royal-who-dumped-aatish-to-marry-king-ston/cid/1669710



I suppose the woman didn't want to do anything with a bisexual boyfriend.

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## SHAH BAAZ

jamahir said:


> Honor killing happen in India too, whether in Haryana, whether in the national capital Delhi or whether in cosmopolitan Bangalore.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you approve of this honor killing ( murder ).
> 
> Why are you ascribing anti-human tribal laws to Islam ?



No I dont approve honor killings man Im just saying, how can one stop this from happenning again? How can Pakistanis move forward in an honorable way where there are no killings and no immorality.

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## jamahir

SHAH BAAZ said:


> No I dont approve honor killings man



Thank you.



SHAH BAAZ said:


> Im just saying, how can one stop this from happenning again? How can Pakistanis move forward in an honorable way where there are no killings and no immorality.



Firstly, all this talking about "immorality" has to be eliminated. In a few Muslim-majority countries like pre-2011 Libya, brothers and fathers could not tell their family's women what not to wear and which man they could not be with. This is that attitude that has to be adopted in South Asia.

Secondly, honor killing has to be declared a crime of serious murder for which the penalty should be death, including to any co-criminal female family member.

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## Laozi

If the present young generation keep itself glued to internet then these honor killings will be a thing of past in few decades.

Thinking process of present day teens are the product of their smartphones which is filled with p0rn.

Forget about honor killings but Once these guys become parents they will be more than glad that if their kids refrain from arranging orgies at home.


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## MayaBazar

aryadravida said:


> Just because north india has rape culture ,pakistan should have honor killing culture?
> I come from telangana..a south indian state...we south indians give a lot of freedom to our girls....we dont have many rapes in our society.
> Have you read about priyanka reddy rape and murder case that happened in hyderabd in december?The entire state rose in one voice to kill the rapists...the pressure was too much on the govt that the 3 rapists were killed in a week after the incident.
> We dont tolerate such behaviour...anyway,violence against women ,be it rape or honour killing is shame for a society...but i just cant bring myself to think a girl is killed just because she danced with a man(i.am sure he might be a family member of her)



Good to meet you. I am from Telangana too. Yes. I agree with you that people from South India will not allow and tolerate rape culture.



jamahir said:


> Honor killing happen in India too, whether in Haryana, whether in the national capital Delhi or whether in cosmopolitan Bangalore.



Yes it exists in Haryana but I am 100% sure that it is not there in Bengaluru unless we are talking about North Indian immigrants to South India.

I would even say that whole of South India, Gujarat, Maha, Odisha, Bengal & North East do not have this problem. This problem seems be limited to the Hindi-Urdu North Indian states.


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## jamahir

aryadravida said:


> I come from telangana..a south indian state...we south indians give a lot of freedom to our girls



There is the Pranay murder / honor killing case from 2018 from Telangana :


> Amrutha and Pranay were high school sweethearts in Miriyalaguda, a small town in the southern Indian state of Telangana. They first met at high school.
> 
> "We always liked each other. We used to talk a lot on the phone and then we fell in love," she says with a wan smile.
> 
> Amrutha, 21, belongs to a wealthy, upper-caste family, while Pranay, who was 24, was a Dalit (formerly untouchable). In April 2016, they married despite her parents' objections. Now five months pregnant, she finds herself saying the unimaginable.
> 
> "My father killed my husband because he did not belong to the same caste as me.






MayaBazar said:


> Good to meet you. I am from Telangana too. Yes. I agree with you that people from South India will not allow and tolerate rape culture.



He's mainly not talking about rapes in Telangana but about honor killing.



MayaBazar said:


> Yes it exists in Haryana but I am 100% sure that it is not there in Bengaluru unless we are talking about North Indian immigrants to South India.
> 
> I would even say that whole of South India, Gujarat, Maha, Odisha, Bengal & North East do not have this problem. This problem seems be limited to the Hindi-Urdu North Indian states.



Here are two cases from Tamil Nadu :

https://www.hindustantimes.com/tami...h-dalit-boy/story-TnmO5m5g7XSmJLaLPtrlwM.html

https://frontline.thehindu.com/dispatches/article31235723.ece

In Bangalore :

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...red-near-devanahalli/articleshow/66743738.cms

---
In all three cases the newly-wed husbands have been murdered but I remember a case from Bangalore from a few years ago where the woman had been killed. I am unable to find the link.

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## SHAH BAAZ

jamahir said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 
> *
> Firstly, all this talking about "immorality" has to be eliminated*. In a few Muslim-majority countries like pre-2011 Libya, brothers and fathers could not tell their family's women what not to wear and which man they could not be with. This is that attitude that has to be adopted in South Asia.
> 
> Secondly, honor killing has to be declared a crime of serious murder for which the penalty should be death, including to any co-criminal female family member.



I dont think im that liberalized yet. Its not us who tell the women what to wear its in the Quran to dress modestly. I dont think burqa is mentioned but modesty is, wear clothes where if the female walks, her body parts cant be seen moving. 

What you are telling me we should get away from Islam altogether?

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## jamahir

Laozi said:


> If the present young generation keep itself glued to internet then these honor killings will be a thing of past in few decades.



The punishment for honor killing must be a swift death sentence.

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## War Thunder

Suriya said:


> India women can complain since they can afford to and they know they wont be harassed for it.
> 
> Few months back there was a women's right rally in Islamabad which was stone pelted by hardliner Islamist groups and had to be abandoned in the middle of it. While they can hold gay/LGBT pride
> in Delhi or Mumbai without disruption.



that only proves indians are cowards and go and rape behind the scenes instead of taking up head on. Those stone pelters didn't go and rape those women in their houses, did they? And they were dealt with law enforcement. If women were free to protest, so were those mullahs, and law enforcement came in when it became violent.
So keep your hypocritical bullshit.

The last time i checked indian women who go to court against rape are dragged from their houses and burnt alive. 99% of women feel not secure in your national capital. They cant walk out without being harassed. And you want to tell me this is freedom?

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## Leishangthem

aryadravida said:


> Just because north india has rape culture ,pakistan should have honor killing culture?
> I come from telangana..a south indian state...we south indians give a lot of freedom to our girls....we dont have many rapes in our society.
> Have you read about priyanka reddy rape and murder case that happened in hyderabd in december?The entire state rose in one voice to kill the rapists...the pressure was too much on the govt that the 3 rapists were killed in a week after the incident.
> We dont tolerate such behaviour...anyway,violence against women ,be it rape or honour killing is shame for a society...but i just cant bring myself to think a girl is killed just because she danced with a man(i.am sure he might be a family member of her)


Telangana ranks literally no.4 in crime rate against women,only behind Delhi,Assam ,odisha.

South Indians should stop giving fake notions about south India being any safer,it reduces awareness and makes women vulnerable, especially for those that come from other states or outside mainland.
This leads to more female victims of sexual assault.

Women are unsafe all across mainland India+ Assam & tripura.

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## War Thunder

aryadravida said:


> Just because north india has rape culture ,pakistan should have honor killing culture?
> I come from telangana..a south indian state...we south indians give a lot of freedom to our girls....we dont have many rapes in our society.
> Have you read about priyanka reddy rape and murder case that happened in hyderabd in december?The entire state rose in one voice to kill the rapists...the pressure was too much on the govt that the 3 rapists were killed in a week after the incident.
> We dont tolerate such behaviour...anyway,violence against women ,be it rape or honour killing is shame for a society...but i just cant bring myself to think a girl is killed just because she danced with a man(i.am sure he might be a family member of her)



Stop being a hypocrite. Own up to your shit instead of hiding behind my state, and my city like a coward.
You are an Indian, make me see you post and raise voice against crimes against women in India and I will call you a man enough to be wanting to talk about some one else's problem.

It's not about just because one thing happening in India the other should happen in Pakistan.

It's about being a man enough to own up to your own shit before pointing at some one else's.

Ever seen an ugly monkey go to a better monkey's house and point and laugh at him for being a monkey?

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## Dalit

Any word from PTM? This is the HQ of PTM.


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## aryadravida

ꯀꯃꯌꯦꯛꯑ said:


> Telangana ranks literally no.4 in crime rate against women,only behind Delhi,Assam ,odisha.
> 
> South Indians should stop giving fake notions about south India being any safer,it reduces awareness and makes women vulnerable, especially for those that come from other states or outside mainland.
> This leads to more female victims of sexual assault.
> 
> Women are unsafe all across mainland India+ Assam & tripura.


Its high because more number of cases are reported here..i am not sayin south india is europe or US..but its definitely much better for women than most of south asia...

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## Gentelman

Suriya said:


> India women can complain since they can afford to and they know they wont be harassed for it.
> 
> Few months back there was a women's right rally in Islamabad which was stone pelted by hardliner Islamist groups and had to be abandoned in the middle of it. While they can hold gay/LGBT pride
> in Delhi or Mumbai without disruption.


Try holding an Islamabad like rally in Bihar... 
Then I will willingly give you my *** if you are breathing for a year...
Who are you shitting while mentioning Delhi and Mumbai?

Such a sad incident... 
The elders should be educated, if not the elders atleast educate the comming generation, the boys, girls, children. 
Its heartaching!


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## MastanKhan

SHAH BAAZ said:


> Than you have females with all these phones who have access to alot of different people.
> I mean just weeks before corona virus, there was a pakistani female showing her body parts out in the open road.
> Wtf is going on man has Pakistan lost its way.



Hi,

First the men of a nation lose their character---then the women follow---.

The character of men reflects onthe character of their women---.

A good looking woman is walking by on a college / university campus---.

All the boys / men are oggling her---cat call whistles lewd comments

Thoughts of how many different ways you are going to fck her is reflective on your face and in your eyes---.

The women are now retaliating to what you have done to them---.

Time is not too far off when you want to honor kill them---they will honor kill you in return---.

Now for the woman in the rally that took off her clothes---that should be a matter of shame for the men who made her do so---. 

I don't know if she is a sane person or has mental issues---was on drugs---was manipulated---.

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## Pakistani Fighter

MastanKhan said:


> First the men of a nation lose their character---then the women follow---.
> 
> The character of men reflects onthe character of their women---.
> 
> A good looking woman is walking by on a college / university campus---.
> 
> All the boys / men are oggling her---cat call whistles lewd comments


Disagree. It goes both ways. Make the country's women immodest and the whole generation becomes destroyed. Its always the feminazis who defend dirty Homosexuality, Pornography, Prostitution as jobs for women, Immodest Clothes, Religion etc. I would say the vulgar the women of a country, the beghairat will be the men of the country



MastanKhan said:


> Time is not too far off when you want to honor kill them---they will honor kill you in return---.


LOL




MastanKhan said:


> Now for the woman in the rally that took off her clothes---that should be a matter of shame for the men who made her do so---.
> 
> I don't know if she is a sane person or has mental issues---was on drugs---was manipulated---.


Well same can be said about rapists maybe he was on drugs, manipulated, women made him to do so etc


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## MastanKhan

Pakistani Fighter said:


> D
> Well same can be said about rapists maybe he was on drugs, manipulated, women made him to do so etc



Hi,

Well that is a terrible comment---comparing a woman who has wilfully taken her clothes off---may have had mental issues and comparing it to rape under influence of drugs or whatever---.

A rape is an assault--a felony assault---and a God fearing muslim trying to find a way to justify it---!!!

That should not happen.

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## bananarepublic

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> First the men of a nation lose their character---then the women follow---.
> 
> The character of men reflects onthe character of their women---.
> 
> A good looking woman is walking by on a college / university campus---.
> 
> All the boys / men are oggling her---cat call whistles lewd comments
> 
> Thoughts of how many different ways you are going to fck her is reflective on your face and in your eyes---.
> 
> The women are now retaliating to what you have done to them---.
> 
> Time is not too far off when you want to honor kill them---they will honor kill you in return---.
> 
> Now for the woman in the rally that took off her clothes---that should be a matter of shame for the men who made her do so---.
> 
> I don't know if she is a sane person or has mental issues---was on drugs---was manipulated---.



You have it a bit wrong, it is neithet men. Or women that follow . it is in essence a social failure of not valuing human life and a social failure of corrupted values.
Such communities implode themselves, their violent behaviours are their downfall.

Majority of men have always been immoral in their actions in this country yet they are hypocrite's to their own beliefs. Such is the failure of the community and society they are born and raised in


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## SHAH BAAZ

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> First the men of a nation lose their character---then the women follow---.
> 
> The character of men reflects onthe character of their women---.
> 
> A good looking woman is walking by on a college / university campus---.
> 
> All the boys / men are oggling her---cat call whistles lewd comments
> 
> Thoughts of how many different ways you are going to fck her is reflective on your face and in your eyes---.
> 
> The women are now retaliating to what you have done to them---.
> 
> Time is not too far off when you want to honor kill them---they will honor kill you in return---.
> 
> Now for the woman in the rally that took off her clothes---that should be a matter of shame for the men who made her do so---.
> 
> I don't know if she is a sane person or has mental issues---was on drugs---was manipulated---.



You are right about one thing, killing is going to be widespread. Maybe not physically kill someone but give them hiv, aids, stds, and kill each other a slow death. Bhaigaratee is going to be so widespread that the wicked people will be committing immoral acts on the roads. Even science is now saying dont have sex, almost 350 million new cases world wide regarding stds. The world health organisation said they dont have an answer and if this keeps on going, people will have to stop having sexual intercourses. Well, I already know that because I read the Quran. Everything Allah has ordered us to do is for the benefit of our ownselves. 

I mean its inevitable, nothing can stop from whats been prophecised. Like people say back home, if you can manage to protect your izzat of your home you have done well. So whoever wants to be a bhaigarat, please, go ahead. 

There are still Men alive who value education, freedom, But not at the expense of Religion because Islam makes us better human beings.

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## Longhorn

Laozi said:


> If the present young generation keep itself glued to internet then these honor killings will be a thing of past in few decades.
> 
> Thinking process of present day teens are the product of their smartphones which is filled with p0rn.
> 
> Forget about honor killings but Once these guys become parents they will be more than glad that if their kids refrain from arranging orgies at home.


It's nothing to do with emulating p.orn, it's about recognising that each individual is born with the right to make their own decisions and choices regarding their personal lives.
The ossified societal norms that we preserve and promote are a major impediment to our progress and development as a society.
We need a change in thinking.

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## SHAH BAAZ

Naofumi said:


> He not only approves but think it an act of correctness.



By me approving or dissaproving doesnt change the reality that the murder happenned. All Im trying to suggest is that there maybe an alternative approach which may prevent such heinous acts in the future. 

Unlike the Indians who when watching someone getting raped start playing with their own little.pecker for enjoyment and wish more of that culture should be promoted throuought India. You sick sanghis, you are the epitome of immorality.


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## MastanKhan

SHAH BAAZ said:


> You are right about one thing, killing is going to be widespread. Maybe not physically kill someone but give them hiv, aids, stds, and kill each other a slow death. Bhaigaratee is going to be so widespread that the wicked people will be committing immoral acts on the roads. Even science is now saying dont have sex, almost 350 million new cases world wide regarding stds. The world health organisation said they dont have an answer and if this keeps on going, people will have to stop having sexual intercourses. Well, I already know that because I read the Quran. Everything Allah has ordered us to do is for the benefit of our ownselves.
> 
> I mean its inevitable, nothing can stop from whats been prophecised. Like people say back home, if you can manage to protect your izzat of your home you have done well. So whoever wants to be a bhaigarat, please, go ahead.
> 
> There are still Men alive who value education, freedom, But not at the expense of Religion because Islam makes us better human beings.




Hi,

It all comes down to is the strength of character---executing these girls is not the solution and will never be the solution---.

Girls and boys run away and get married---and then they are killed---but has that stopped the girls running away with the boys---. 

Absolutely not---.

So---it shows that HONOR KILLING is not the solution in this case---.

In this case---honor killing is a BLASPHENOUS ACT---. Because both of them committed and act of SUNNAT and yet they got executed---.

Now the parents---uncles---grandparents---brothers---cousins--- have committed blasphemy and they must all the executed for murdering someone who has done it by the law of sunnat---.

This should come under TAUHEEN A ISLAM---TAUHEEN A SUNNAT act and as there is murder committed all involved in committing that crime must be executed---.

Now going back to the those two girls---male ego is so amazingly fickle---their Pathan father may be committing sodomy in his old age and so would the uncles and cousins and brothers and that accounts to nothing---. Pashtun pride is a one way street only for men to practise and women to submit---.

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## Laozi

Longhorn said:


> It's nothing to do with emulating p.orn, it's about recognising that each individual is born with the right to make their own decisions and choices regarding their personal lives.
> The ossified societal norms that we preserve and promote are a major impediment to our progress and development as a society.
> We need a change in thinking.


Don't worry our new internet generation will play the same pubg, watch the same Netflix series and will have same moral values. This world will be altogether a different place and no one will bother about their old religious and cultural values.

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## El Sidd

Laozi said:


> Don't worry our new internet generation will play the same pubg, watch the same Netflix series and will have same moral values. This world will be altogether a different place and no one will bother about their old religious and cultural values.



Please make a thread about forced conversions in Sindh for monthly payment of 17500PKr by Northerner religious zealous. 

May Allah reward you for it


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## Longhorn

Laozi said:


> Don't worry our new internet generation will play the same pubg, watch the same Netflix series and will have same moral values. This world will be altogether a different place and no one will bother about their old religious and cultural values.


I hope you are right.


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## jaibi

Agreed. The treatment of women in South Asia and the world needs to improve. I wouldn't say that males are just villains: they're in the same conundrum as well. They get hurt by the same mentality as well. 


aryadravida said:


> Cant believe there are places in this 21st century where a girl is killed just for doing a few steps with a man...
> A girl is not an object neither is she your property...she is as much a human as you are with all the desires and wishes you have.
> I would say a girl should be given complete freedom once she crosses 18...why different rules for a girl? Boys can drink, do sex with whomever they want, do drugs, molestgirls...but girls cant even smile in public in such societies.
> I blame women also of such societies...why are they silent?Why dont they stand up to such atrocities?Why dont they form organisations and create awareness among women about their rights?Why dont they fight for justice?
> Really disturbing...

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## Naofumi

Pakistani Fighter said:


> I would say the vulgar the women of a country, the beghairat will be the men of the country





Pakistani Fighter said:


> Are they hot?





Pakistani Fighter said:


> Kafir Bachiyan

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## Moonlight

Laozi said:


> Don't worry our new internet generation will play the same pubg, watch the same Netflix series and will have same moral values. This world will be altogether a different place and no one will bother about their old religious and cultural values.



This is beyond disgusting approach to look into this heinous crimes that we still see in sub continent. In remote areas, women are killed in name of honor killing for merely talking to someone with opposite gender.
Is this the religious values you’re talking about?
Read the story of Musa (AS) and the two sisters who he helped?
Don’t confuse mentally retardation with religious values.

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## SHAH BAAZ

Islam is the most Liberal Religion in the World. The more we learn the meaning of the Quran, the better human beings we become.


Moonlight said:


> This is beyond disgusting approach to look into this heinous crimes that we still see in sub continent. In remote areas, women are killed in name of honor killing for merely talking to someone with opposite gender.
> Is this the religious values you’re talking about?
> Read the story of Musa (AS) and the two sisters who helped?
> Don’t confuse mentally retardation with religious values.



Thats called jahaliyat. We need more people who know what Islam is. Its the most liberal Religion in the world. Its time to get out of the Hindu culture.


----------



## That Guy

Dalit said:


> Any word from PTM? This is the HQ of PTM.


One of two things is gonna happen.

1) they'll stay quiet, because these types of monsters form their support base.

2) they'll call it a conspiracy by punjabis, and defend the murderers.

The more and more time that passes, more and more people will see their true colors.

On topic:

Murderers should be brought to justice. Letting this go unpunished would set a bad example, and harm the rule of law.

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## Leishangthem

aryadravida said:


> Its high because more number of cases are reported here..i am not sayin south india is europe or US..but its definitely much better for women than most of south asia...


This is not 2009 anymore for such excuses. North or south indian state, the crime rate,no of incidents and cognizable crime, and the hundreds of thousands of crime against women that occurs per year in south indian states - these are ample to make it unsafe for women. Your standard for safety might be just extensively lower.100k+ report of crime against women is staggeringly high regardless. 
These misleading sugar coatings are rendering women(especially outsider) vulnerable. The" south india is safe for women" is absolutely wrong based on facts and stats.And denial of facts leads to lack of awareness which cause a problem later on.
Before this curfew ,there's not a week without a rape or gangrape case from south india in news.

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## SHAH BAAZ

Surely manny have probably seen this video but if you havent, I highly recommend it.


----------



## Safriz

Very common among tribal culture of Pakistan and more so among pushtoon tribes.
Nothing new and nothing unusual.


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## Cliftonite

Safriz said:


> Very common among tribal culture of Pakistan and more so among pushtoon tribes.
> Nothing new and nothing unusual.


 

So what? It's still wrong. Tribal culture needs to be updated for women's rights.

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## Safriz

Cliftonite said:


> So what? It's still wrong. Tribal culture needs to be updated for women's rights.


If I say something I will called racist. So please don't provoke me


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## SHAH BAAZ

Laozi said:


> Don't worry our new internet generation will play the same pubg, watch the same Netflix series and will have same moral values. This world will be altogether a different place and no one will bother about their old religious and cultural values.



I wouldnt go that far... like everything in life you have a a gift of choice from Allah. The same internet can bring one Closer to Allah and at the same time can also turn away one from Allah.


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## HAIDER

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Talk is cheap---. Wait till you become a parent of teens---.


lol ....seriously... i see lots of high school adventure behind the scene and feel sorry for working class parents ..

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## zeeshe100

in the name of jahalat


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## El Sidd

happens all over not just one community or region or continent


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## Pakistani Fighter

WTH @Naofumi


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## SQ8

SHAH BAAZ said:


> This goes for males as well btw. Kids should be taught *Allahs Words in early ages and not just how to read in arabic*, make them learn the translation of the Word.
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, its gotten so bad in Pakistan that people dont even bother in these issues anymore, whether its a female or a male. People are turning their faces so they dont get involved. Culture is being destroyed, but I guess its all prophecised.


So then they can cross hudood while wearing Hijab or a cap while sexting in Arabic?

Usual napalm like use of things associated with Islam instead of looking into the actual underlying social issues and then applying solutions to them.

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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Talk is cheap---. Wait till you become a parent of teens---.


You're damn right. People think it's easy raising kids.


----------



## LeGenD

jamahir said:


> The punishment for honor killing must be a swift death sentence.


And what should be punishment for significant acts of immorality such as zina?

Here:

_"The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment."_ - Surah An-Nur (verse 2)

Remember this. Whatever you preach in the Public, you will be answerable to Allah Almighty accordingly. There is no escape from this fate.

Yes, honor killing is wrong and unlawful. But question should be why people take these matters into their own hands? They should be discouraged from doing so, but the (supposedly) Islamic state needs to take responsibility as well.

_If_ evidence of zina surface, then public flogging of the guilty should be carried out. Period.

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## jaibi

Can you please report these posts?


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## jamahir

Naofumi said:


> ...



Caught !



LeGenD said:


> And what should be punishment for significant acts of immorality such as zina?
> 
> Here:
> 
> _"The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment."_ - Surah An-Nur (verse 2)
> 
> Remember this. Whatever you preach in the Public, you will be answerable to Allah Almighty accordingly. There is no escape from this fate.
> 
> Yes, honor killing is wrong and unlawful. But question should be why people take these matters into their own hands? They should be discouraged from doing so, but the (supposedly) Islamic state needs to take responsibility as well.
> 
> _If_ evidence of zina surface, then public flogging of the guilty should be carried out. Period.



How very "moderate" of you.

And what if they were just holding hands or like @Moonlight said, just talking ?

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## Cliftonite

Socra said:


> So then they can cross hudood while wearing Hijab or a cap while sexting in Arabic?
> 
> Usual napalm like use of things associated with Islam instead of looking into the actual underlying social issues and then applying solutions to them.




According to conservatives, all of Pakistan's problems can be solved with Islamization. The unattainable Riyasat e Madina model that every politican swears he will implement in Pakistan. Child abuse, massive ingrained inequality (remnant of the caste system), abuse of women etc will not go away with Islamization. It pisses me off to no end when I see punks talking about pan Islamism and Palestinians and Afghans when our own son of the soils, our non Sunni minorities and Christians/Hindu/Parsi minorities are migrating out of alienation or discrimination or whatever you may call it.

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## SHAH BAAZ

Cliftonite said:


> According to conservatives, all of Pakistan's problems can be solved with Islamization. The unattainable Riyasat e Madina model that every politican swears he will implement in Pakistan. Child abuse, massive ingrained inequality (remnant of the caste system), abuse of women etc will not go away with Islamization. It pisses me off to no end when I see punks talking about pan Islamism and Palestinians and Afghans when our own son of the soils, our non Sunni minorities and Christians/Hindu/Parsi minorities are migrating out of alienation or discrimination or whatever you may call it.




Liberals think Islam is root cause of all evil, but you faithless libs dont understand that Islam is a solution to all of mans problems.

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## Cliftonite

SHAH BAAZ said:


> Liberals think Islam is root cause of all evil, but you faithless libs dont understand that Islam is a solution to all of mans problems.



Then why did we turn into a shithole after Zia's debacles? Keep throwing around the word libtard as an insult, it just shows how stupid you are. No system is perfect, neither complete Islamization in the case of Zia, which gives you Hudood ordinances and crazy Kalashinkov culture, neither is full on leftism in the case of Bhutto, which destroyed our economy and gave rise to ethno-nationalism.

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## SHAH BAAZ

jamahir said:


> Caught !
> 
> 
> 
> How very "moderate" of you.
> 
> And what if they were just holding





Cliftonite said:


> Then why did we turn into a shithole after Zia's debacles? Keep throwing around the word libtard as an insult, it just shows how stupid you are. No system is perfect, neither complete Islamization in the case of Zia, which gives you Hudood ordinances and crazy Kalashinkov culture, neither is full on leftism in the case of Bhutto, which destroyed our economy and gave rise to ethno-nationalism.



They did it wrong. You cant choose one and ignore the other. Like I keep saying we need to understand what Islam is first and than talk about Islamization. 

Islam is not picking up a gun, its picking up a Book to read.

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## Naofumi

SHAH BAAZ said:


> They did it wrong. You cant choose one and ignore the other. Like I keep saying we need to understand what Islam is first and than talk about Islamization.
> 
> Islam is not picking up a gun, its picking up a Book to read.


Lal Masjid incident was good or bad?

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## Cliftonite

SHAH BAAZ said:


> They did it wrong. You cant choose one and ignore the other. Like I keep saying we need to understand what Islam is first and than talk about Islamization.
> 
> Islam is not picking up a gun, its picking up a Book to read.





Lol we don't have time for you to keep doing trial and errors to determine the perfect Islamic model. You can't run a whole country of 220 million like this. Haven't you learned this from the '71 debacle and the TTP insurgencies? You need to address the root cause of the divide instead of covering it up with a band aid of Islami riasat.

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## SHAH BAAZ

"I still have a lot to say to you, but you cannot bear it now."

"When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."

"Everything the Father says is also what I say. That is why I said, 'He will take what I say and tell it to you.'

I guess todays Muslims can compared to Christians during Jesus days, they cant bear the things that are in Islam.

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## El Sidd

Cliftonite said:


> Lol we don't have time for you to keep doing trial and errors to determine the perfect Islamic model. You can't run a whole country of 220 million like this. Haven't you learned this from the '71 debacle and the TTP insurgencies? You need to address the root cause of the divide instead of covering it up with a band aid of Islami riasat.



Hi,

Why do boys take revenge when they are dumped by their girlfriends? 

Revenge Forn and whatnot?


----------



## SHAH BAAZ

Cliftonite said:


> Lol we don't have time for you to keep doing trial and errors to determine the perfect Islamic model. You can't run a whole country of 220 million like this. Haven't you learned this from the '71 debacle and the TTP insurgencies? You need to address the root cause of the divide instead of covering it up with a band aid of Islami riasat.



Trials and errors with Islam? 

Where does humanity get the law, All Men are created equal? 

Where does man find that there is no compulsion in Religion? 

I thought the Quran was the same everywhere?

So disgusting so called Muslims have so much weak iman on pdf. Go watch more bollywood movies.

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## Cliftonite

SHAH BAAZ said:


> "I still have a lot to say to you, but you cannot bear it now."
> 
> "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."
> 
> "Everything the Father says is also what I say. That is why I said, 'He will take what I say and tell it to you.'
> 
> I guess todays Muslims can compared to Christians during Jesus days, they cant bear the things that are in Islam.




Oh god get out of these superficial quotes. Poverty is not going to be eradicated by these quotes. It needs technological and sociopolitical reforms



El Sidd said:


> Hi,
> 
> Why do boys take revenge when they are dumped by their girlfriends?
> 
> Revenge Forn and whatnot?



Care to explain the context behind this?

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## 313ghazi

I hope the killer spend a lifetime in jail.

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## El Sidd

Cliftonite said:


> Care to explain the context behind this?



insecure men exist in all shapes and forms and across the strata of society. 

when these accidents happen, one side comes out blaming religion while the other comes out blaming culture of other community. 

nothing gets done this way.

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## SHAH BAAZ

Cliftonite said:


> Oh god get out of these superficial quotes. Poverty is not going to be eradicated by these quotes. It needs technological and sociopolitical reforms
> 
> 
> 
> Care to explain the context behind this?



Islam provided Hospital and Universities, and now the same Islam is backwards. Get lost buddy, Islam is living according to ALLAH'S Will. 

And most of it is just more than killing according to you
Dont be brainwashed that Islam is backwards and needs to be reformed becUse the West has you believing that.

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## Cliftonite

SHAH BAAZ said:


> Trials and errors with Islam?
> 
> Where does humanity get the law, All Men are created equal?
> 
> Where does man find that there is no compulsion in Religion?
> 
> I thought the Quran was the same everywhere?
> 
> So disgusting so called Muslims have so much weak iman on pdf. Go watch more bollywood movies.


 

Yeah nice story, but how will this help the reeling poverty in our rural provinces? Will this help our water crises, our dwindling farmland and overpopulation problem? Get out of this fantasy that just being true Muslims will magically solve every problem that plagues Pakistan.



SHAH BAAZ said:


> Islam provided Hospital and Universities, and now the same Islam is backwards. Get lost buddy, Islam is living according to ALLAH'S Will.
> 
> And most of it is just more than killing according to you
> Dont be brainwashed that Islam is backwards and needs to be reformed becUse the West has you believing that.




Keep living like an ostrich with your head buried under the sand. Keep hoping for the true Islam that will magically solve every problem in the country and planet Earth.

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## SHAH BAAZ

Cliftonite said:


> Yeah nice story, but how will this help the reeling poverty in our rural provinces? Will this help our water crises, our dwindling farmland and overpopulation problem? Get out of this fantasy that just being true Muslims will magically solve every problem that plagues Pakistan.



Go read about the golden era of Islam and how it took not just the arabs but the whole of mankind out of poverty. The christians were in a dark age until Islam gave them new inventions, ideas, tools from Islam. 

While the West took that and ran with it and became the 1st world, Muslims started getting away from the Knowledge seeking to fighting and killing. 

We need get bavk to learning Islamic values not just Jihad, speak truth, dutiful to your parents, knowlege seeking, Being good human beings.



Cliftonite said:


> Yeah nice story, but how will this help the reeling poverty in our rural provinces? Will this help our water crises, our dwindling farmland and overpopulation problem? Get out of this fantasy that just being true Muslims will magically solve every problem that plagues Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep living like an ostrich with your head buried under the sand. Keep hoping for the true Islam that will magically solve every problem in the country and planet Earth.



First you need to understand one thing, Everything is in the hands of Allah. Yes Islam can solve and make Pakistan a better Country a more prosperous Country.


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## Pakistani Fighter

Cliftonite said:


> Keep living like an ostrich with your head buried under the sand. Keep hoping for the true Islam that will magically solve every problem in the country and planet Earth.


Islam will solve InshALLAH. Its was Islam and Shariah which made our ancestors leave their homes in 1947. Islam is for all mankind

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## SHAH BAAZ

Naofumi said:


> Lal Masjid incident was good or bad?



Get lost sanghi

Everything bad that happens is because Man brings it upon himself.

Pakistan wont advance untill every citizen knows exactly what is written in the Quran. This Mullah/Molvi system needs to die, they can brainwash any being into believing them because that is their source for info on Islam and not Allahs Words.


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## jamahir

SHAH BAAZ said:


> Get lost sanghi



@Naofumi is not a Sanghi. He is a young sensible Muslim. We agree on most things.



SHAH BAAZ said:


> Go read about the golden era of Islam and how it took not just the arabs but the whole of mankind out of poverty. The christians were in a dark age until Islam gave them new inventions, ideas, tools from Islam.
> 
> While the West took that and ran with it and became the 1st world, Muslims started getting away from the Knowledge seeking to fighting and killing.
> 
> We need get bavk to learning Islamic values not just Jihad, speak truth, dutiful to your parents, knowlege seeking, Being good human beings.



The Golden Age of Islam sustained because of the intellectuals finding support from the rulers. And then came the Mongols.

The Medieval Christians who drove out the Muslims from Europe, instituted a reign of terror. They did acts of evil like burning alive cats because they thought cats were the intermediaries of the Devil. They were rewarded with plagues and general ignorance.

But some among these Christians looked through the works of Muslims and parallely by themselves to bring about the Renaissance. Christian Europe progressed.

And what became of the Muslims generally ? There were exceptional enlightened Muslim rulers like Tipu Sultan but some chief mullah of the Ottoman empire declared that the printing press is haram and that slowed down adoption propagation of scientific and technological advances through the Muslim world.

What of the Muslims now ? Despite more than four dozen Muslim-majority countries there is not a single Muslim space station ( like the ISS ), not a single computer microprocessor or operating system. Why ?

Because for most modern Muslims, being Muslim has become a blind practice of prayer, ritual and dress-code.

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## Pakistani Fighter

jamahir said:


> He is a young sensible Muslim


Not enough sensible. Having liberal thoughts too


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## jamahir

Pakistani Fighter said:


> Not enough sensible. Having liberal thoughts too



I am a Leftist. What would you say to that ?


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## SHAH BAAZ

jamahir said:


> @Naofumi is not a Sanghi. He is a young sensible Muslim. We agree on most things.
> 
> 
> 
> The Golden Age of Islam sustained because of the intellectuals finding support from the rulers. And then came the Mongols.
> 
> The Medieval Christians who drove out the Muslims from Europe, instituted a reign of terror. They did acts of evil like burning alive cats because they thought cats were the intermediaries of the Devil. They were rewarded with plagues and general ignorance.
> 
> But some among these Christians looked through the works of Muslims and parallely by themselves to bring about the Renaissance. Christian Europe progressed.
> 
> And what became of the Muslims generally ? There were exceptional enlightened Muslim rulers like Tipu Sultan but some chief mullah of the Ottoman empire declared that the printing press is haram and that slowed down adoption propagation of scientific and technological advances through the Muslim world.
> 
> What of the Muslims now ? Despite more than four dozen Muslim-majority countries there is not a single Muslim space station ( like the ISS ), not a single computer microprocessor or operating system. Why ?
> 
> *Because for most modern Muslims, being Muslim has become a blind attitude of prayer, ritual and dress-code.*




Exactly what Im saying... its because we focus so much on reading the Quran in arabic that we forget to teach the meaning of it. I grew up in Pakistan and when I finished my reading of the Quran, Mithai was distributed. Now that I think about it, I didnt learn anything from reading the Quran in Arabic, I wish I wouldve known what Islam is at my younger day because Allah knows, I was a lost soul.

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## Naofumi

Pakistani Fighter said:


> Not enough sensible. Having liberal thoughts too


I would call myself pragmatic and modernist, not a full fledged liberal.

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## Pakistani Fighter

jamahir said:


> I am a Leftist. What would you say to that ?


Bhai ap to roza hi nahi rakhte. Kal ko aap athiest ban gaye to heraani nahi hogi mujhe



Naofumi said:


> I would call myself pragmatic and modernist, not a full fledged liberal.


Thats what h*** sanghis want. They want us to be away from our religion.


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## LeGenD

jamahir said:


> How very "moderate" of you.
> 
> And what if they were just holding hands or like @Moonlight said, just talking ?


Being "moderate" does not absolve one from Islamic teachings.

In that case, they can be told not to do that. Severity of judgement is contingent upon the nature of transgression.

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## Naofumi

Pakistani Fighter said:


> Thats what h*** sanghis want. They want us to be away from our religion.


Regardless of Sanghis, I BROADLY believe in Kemalism.
@Cliftonite

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## Pakistani Fighter

Naofumi said:


> Regardless of Sanghis, I believe BROADLY in Kemalism.
> @Cliftonite


Thats very wrong. I am not surprised why I see Shabana Ilmi, Nighat Abbas, Shahnawaz Hussain, Mukhtar Abbas naqvi who represents BJP have similar thoughts like you. They are successful in changing your thoughts.


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## jamahir

Pakistani Fighter said:


> Bhai ap to roza hi nahi rakhte. Kal ko aap athiest ban gaye to heraani nahi hogi mujhe



Well, please allow me to not talk about those matters. Talking of theology is banned on the forum.



LeGenD said:


> In that case, they can be told not to do that. Severity of judgement is contingent on the nature of transgression.



Come on, a heavy word like "transgression" just for a man and woman talking ?

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## Naofumi

Pakistani Fighter said:


> Thats very wrong. I am not surprised why I see Shabana Ilmi, Nighat Abbas, Shahnawaz Hussain, Mukhtar Abbas naqvi who represents BJP have similar thoughts like you. They are successful in changing your thoughts.


I have never seen mainstream media in my life, I don't care what they talk - they're shallow and low IQ dumpsters.
My thoughts emanates independently mainly due to the material and social problems Muslims face collectively.


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## LeGenD

jamahir said:


> Come on, a heavy word like "transgression" just for a man and woman talking ?


I am alluding to the acts of transgressions only.

Men and Women are likely to converse at some point which isn't an issue in my view. For example, in academic environments and/or in office environments. However, issue is when boundaries of decency are crossed and/or Islamic teachings are violated at some point. This is for Muslims only. Others may do as they please, but broader societal norms should still be respected at bear minimum. There are rules for socialization in professional environments in any part of the world.

I am not privy to the nature of transgression which led to honor killings in the subject case (very unfortunate though). In my view, honor killings do not materialize out of the blue, there must be a history of transgressions behind each. Only a psycho would kill another over trivial issue.

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