# NATO copter downed; Navy SEALs among the 30 U.S. dead



## Devil Soul

Afghan helicopter crash kills 31 US troops

A US helicopter crash in eastern Afghanistan has killed 31 US soldiers, Afghan President Hamid Karzai's office says.

The soldiers were special forces personnel returning to base after an operation.

It is not clear how the crash happened but the Taliban have said they shot the helicopter down.

The incident marks one of the biggest single losses for US forces in Afghanistan since 2001.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14430735

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## Awesome

Downed Chinook?


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## Jango

Asim Aquil said:


> Downed Chinook?


 
could be, but a chinook is a rugged heli, V-22 Osprey maybe?


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## Imran Khan

damn huge lose


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## Safriz

sad news......so much loss of life.

which helicopter can carry that many soldiers?


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## Donatello

Maybe were preparing for another raid inside Pakistan?


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## fd24

penumbra said:


> Maybe were preparing for another raid inside Pakistan?


 
Whatever they were doing its a sad loss of life.31 families are going to get a visit and be told of their loss. USA get your troops out of their.


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## Oldman1

safriz said:


> sad news......so much loss of life.
> 
> which helicopter can carry that many soldiers?


 
RIP. The chinook can carry that many. As well as the CH53.


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## Awesome

They took out a Chinook less than 2 weeks ago... Taliban seem to be going after the special forces.

I'm interested to know how close this was from the Pakistan border and if the special forces had any Pakistan specific reason for being in the Eastern province.

NATO confirms crash of helicopter

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) &#8212; NATO confirms that one of its helicopters has crashed in eastern Afghanistan following an operation against Taliban insurgents.

The alliance says it's conducting a recovery operation at the site and investigating the cause of the crash. It did not release details or a casualty figure.

*An Afghan provincial spokesman says the helicopter went down in a volatile region bordering the province where the Afghan capital is located that is known for its strong Taliban presence.*

NATO says insurgents were in the area at the time of the crash.

A Taliban spokesman claims the downed aircraft was a U.S. military helicopter and that Taliban fighters brought it down with a rocket attack.

There have been at least 17 coalition and Afghan aircraft crashes in Afghanistan this year. Most are attributed to pilot errors, weather conditions or mechanical failures. However, the coalition has confirmed that at least one CH-47F Chinook helicopter was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade on July 25. Two coalition crew members were injured in that attack.


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## Oldman1

penumbra said:


> Maybe were preparing for another raid inside Pakistan?


 
Read the article before you make your own conclusions.


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## fd24

apparently near wardak 7 afghan soldiers were killed


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## Oldman1

superkaif said:


> apparantly near wadak 7 afghan soldiers were killed


 
Those ANA were on it.


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## RAZA SAHI

MOST LIKELY IT'S WARDAK, TALIBAN HAVE A GOOD PRESENCE IN THAT PROVINCE. I WAS READING A BOOK THE OTHER DAY BY THE SAME JOURNALIST WHO WROTE *A MILLION BULLETS*. HE HAD TRAVELD TO WARDAK FOR HIS BOOK & CONDUCTED THE INTERVIEWS WITH TALIBAN LEADERSHIP THERE, HE NOTED THAT THE TALIBAN WERE QUITE SURE IN THEIR CLAIMS THAT THEY WILL SOON GET THE CAPABILITY TO BRING DOWN THE CHOPPERS.


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## Spring Onion

Yup Wardak province and the provincial govt official confirmed it was hit when it was taking off


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## Safriz

these people are good at making botched up weapons...they may have created a new weapon to shoot down large helicopters.
stick mounted rocket launcher or donkey mounted heavy machine guns..these people are damn good at improvising.


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## StormShadow

Sad...RIP.


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## Tshering22

Terrible loss of life.. May the deceased find eternal peace in hereafter.


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## Galaxy

Very Sad incident..... RIP


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## Spring Onion

KABUL, Afghanistan * Insurgents shot down a NATO Chinook helicopter during an overnight operation in eastern Afghanistan, killing at least 37 people on board, a coalition military official said on Saturday.* It was believed to be the deadliest helicopter crash in the nearly decade-long war, punctuating a surge of violence across the country even as American and NATO forces begin a modest drawdown of troops.

Afghan military officials put the death toll at 38, including 31 Americans and 7 Afghan commandos. President Hamid Karzais office, in a statement, described the American casualties as members of the Special Forces. The coalition official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss it, confirmed that most of the dead were NATO forces, but could not immediately identify their nationalities or what units they belonged to.

The president of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan has expressed his condolences to the U.S. President Barack Obama and to the families of the victims, Mr. Karzais office said in a statement.

*The helicopter was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade in the Tangi valley of the Wardak Province just west of Kabul, the coalition official said. The Taliban claimed credit for the attack.*

If confirmed, Saturdays crash would be the deadliest day for American forces since the war began. A NATO spokesman, Capt. Justin Brockhoff of the United States Air Force, confirmed the crash but could provide no further information, including what caused the crash or whether there were casualties.

*There were conflicting accounts on when the helicopter went down. A spokesman for the Taliban, Zabiullah Mujahid, said insurgents shot down the helicopter around 11 p.m. Friday as it was starting an operation on a house where the militants were gathering in the Tangi Joyee region of the district of Saidabad in the eastern part of the province. Eight militants were killed in the fight that continued after the helicopter fell, he said.*
*The fresh reports from the site tells us that there are still Americans doing search operations for the bodies and pieces of the helicopter are on the ground, Mr. Mujahid said.*

Although the nationality of the NATO soldiers killed was not confirmed, Americans were known to be carrying out most of operations in the area.

Gen. Abdul Qayum Baqizoy, police chief of Wardak, said the operation began around 1 a.m. Saturday as NATO and Afghan forces attacked a Taliban compound in Jaw-e-mekh Zareen village in the Tangi valley. The firefight lasted at least two hours, the general said.

It was at the end of the operation that one of the NATO helicopters crashed, he said. We dont know yet the cause of the crash and we dont know how many NATO soldiers were on board.

The Tangi valley runs along the border of Wardak and the neighboring province of Logar. Taliban activity has been heavy in both provinces, which border the capital of Kabul.

Prior to Saturday, the biggest single-day loss of life for the American military in Afghanistan came on June 28, 2005 during Operation Red Wing in Kunar Province, when a Chinook helicopter carrying Special Operations troops was shot down in eastern Kunar Province as it tried to provide reinforcements to forces trapped in heavy fighting. Sixteen Special Operations troops, most of them Navy Seals, were killed in the crash. Three more Seals were killed in fighting on the ground.

Abdul Waheed Wafa contributed reporting from Kabul.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world/asia/07afghanistan.html?_r=1&ref=world

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## Safriz

^^^ this makes it worse...
how they hit a helivopter with non guided crude weapon AT NIGHT?


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## VCheng

I regret all loss of life, but at least in this case, the soldiers were performing their assigned duties, and thus fair game according to the rules of the dangerous game called war. RIP to the deceased.

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## Jango

Oldman1 said:


> RIP. The chinook can carry that many. As well as the CH53.


 
But Ch-53 is retired from service now, V-22 and chinook are the two helis that can carry as many troops. V-22 in a floor sit configuration.


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## Jango

whatever the case, a sad loss of life. Part and parcel of war i am afraid.


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## Imran Khan

RPG done it i was thinking manpad damn RPG nailed it very badly then .RIP to dead .


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## SMC

RIP... for the Afghan soldiers.


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## Yeti

RIP to the dead


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## IranZamin

this is what you get for assasinating iranian scientists


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## nomi007

afghan Taliban are great

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## Xestan

If it was really shot down by a Afghan Taliban, I'm curious to know how did they shoot it down, they are good I must say, clever enough to bring down a Heli.

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## IranZamin

Xestan said:


> If it was really shot down by a Afghan Taliban, I'm curious to know how did they shoot it down, they are good I must say, clever enough to bring down a Heli.


 
-Iranian weapons-

we must supply them more heavy weapons. these guys need it

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## AMCA

Very sad news.... Rest in peace o brave.. May god give there family the strength to bear this loss...


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## Ahmad

nomi007 said:


> afghan Taliban are great


 
Pakistani taliban too.

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## Donatello

Confirmed that it was shot down by a RPG.....like how the F*** is that possible? Sad day indeed.


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## monitor

If it was hit by a RPG then its great news indeed . but how could they identify the helicopter at night so precisely ? i think it was the day of the taliban fighter they hit the super power's super weapons with their crude weapons . Allah hu akber

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## Meengla

RIP. So many grieving families in this conflict from all sides.
But, as VCheng says, there is a war going on there and soldiers and Talibans are legit target. So long as both sides don't kill civilians intentionally we will sadly have to bear such news.
*I think any American death in Afghanistan is really bad news for Pakistan though. Americans are going to blame Pakistan for this. May be Iranians are getting more involved now? If they really are it is terrible news for American forces because Iranians, unlike Pakistan, can actively support anti-American forces. What made the Soviets to finally lose in Afghanistan was the Stinger missiles which ended the Soviet air superiority. Same can happen to American forces.*

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## monitor

penumbra said:


> Confirmed that it was shot down by a RPG.....like how the F*** is that possible? Sad day indeed.


 
How it could it a sad day ? it is the great day of afghan resistance against foreign aggression .


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## monitor

Meengla said:


> RIP. So many grieving families in this conflict from all sides.
> But, as VCheng says, there is a war going on there and soldiers and Talibans are legit target. So long as both sides don't kill civilians intentionally we will sadly have to bear such news.
> *I think any American death in Afghanistan is really bad news for Pakistan though. Americans are going to blame Pakistan for this. May be Iranians are getting more involved now? If they really are it is terrible news for American forces because Iranians, unlike Pakistan, can actively support anti-American forces. What made the Soviets to finally lose in Afghanistan was the Stinger missiles which ended the Soviet air superiority. Same can happen to American forces.*



Until now we are hearing only about the RPG being used not any manpad . us alway blame Pakistan for not doing enough is merely away to console their frustration. if the Iranian really start suppling some modern anti tank weapons and manpad to taliban the of us occupation force is going to face their Vietnam tragedy again .

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## Meengla

monitor said:


> Until now we are hearing only about the RPG being used not any manpad . us alway blame Pakistan for not doing enough is merely away to console their frustration. if the Iranian really start suppling some modern anti tank weapons and manpad to taliban the of us occupation force is going to face their Vietnam tragedy again .


 
Yes, you are correct.
In all this what is being lost is that essentially the Iranian and American interests in Afghanistan are not too dis-similar: Countering the Talibans who harbored OBL and Al-Qaida. But, because of a certain 'Lobby' in America, Iran is being pushed to an enemy status to the point of inflicting actual violence upon Iran. If Iran does decide to payback then it will be the end of American enterprise in Afghanistan.
I hope the muddle-head in the US Congress don't put any GI in harm's way because of that nefarious 'Lobby' which buys their allegiance to the detriment of America's own interests globally.


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## Chogy

No one is blaming Pakistan. That's ridiculous.



> How it could it a sad day ? it is the great day of afghan resistance against foreign aggression .



My sincere wish for you is that you will one day live under Taliban-style leadership. That is, unless you are one yourself in thought and deed. Whip any women lately? Drop off any poison gas at a girls' school?

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## CardSharp

Devil Soul said:


> Afghan helicopter crash kills 31 US troops
> 
> A US helicopter crash in eastern Afghanistan has killed 31 US soldiers, Afghan President Hamid Karzai's office says.
> 
> The soldiers were special forces personnel returning to base after an operation.
> 
> It is not clear how the crash happened but the Taliban have said they shot the helicopter down.
> 
> The incident marks one of the biggest single losses for US forces in Afghanistan since 2001.
> BBC News - US helicopter &#039;shot down&#039; by Taliban in Afghanistan


 
7 Afghan soldiers also died but I guess they don't count for much.

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## Ahmad

Chogy said:


> No one is blaming Pakistan. That's ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> My sincere wish for you is that you will one day live under Taliban-style leadership. That is, unless you are one yourself in thought and deed. Whip any women lately? Drop off any poison gas at a girls' school?


 
They have only heard the taliban name, i challenge them to live under the taliban for just one day and come back.

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## CardSharp

Chogy said:


> No one is blaming Pakistan. That's ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> My sincere wish for you is that you will one day live under Taliban-style leadership. That is, unless you are one yourself in thought and deed. Whip any women lately? Drop off any poison gas at a girls' school?



They're going to go back to living under Taliban leadership after you guys leave, so what have you really accomplished besides adding to the misery?

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## Ahmad

CardSharp said:


> They're going to go back to living under Taliban leadership after you guys leave, so what have you really accomplished besides adding to the misery?


 
There will be a bloody and brutal civil war in the country the way it was before, with a difference this time, the neighbors will also be affected by this - we wont be on our own.


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## CardSharp

Ahmad said:


> There will be a bloody and brutal civil war in the country the way it was before, with a difference this time, the neighbors will also be affected by this - we wont be on our own.


 
This would qualify as going from bad to worse no?

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## forcetrip

No amount of military is going to kill their ideology. Actually the exact opposite is required. But unfortunately that boat has sailed. The soldiers died in the line of duty and they should not be disrespected. They joined the army to serve "their" country as they thought fit and the people that shot them down thought they were defending their's.

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## Ahmad

CardSharp said:


> This would qualify as going from bad to worse no?


 
Yes, before 2001 it was worse, then it went to bad for the last 10 years and it will go back to worse.


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## WAQAS119

Considering what USA did to Pakistan.......(Just for the the sake of examples 
1. *CIA was angry*
2. In Pakistan 'US military aid came with spies attached')

I am happy that few of our enemies are down, lot more to go.

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## CardSharp

WAQAS119 said:


> Considering what USA did to Pakistan.......(Just for the the sake of examples
> 1. *CIA was angry*
> 2. In Pakistan 'US military aid came with spies attached')
> 
> I am happy that few of our enemies are down, lot more to go.


 

These soldiers are not your enemy.


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## WAQAS119

CardSharp said:


> These soldiers are not your enemy.


 
They are tools of our enemy. We lost 40,000 precious lives and they are responsible for that.

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## CardSharp

Ahmad said:


> Yes, before 2001 it was worse, then it went to bad for the last 10 years and it will go back to worse.


 
And before 2001 what enabled the Taliban to come to power? I would argue it had something to do with the total US withdrawal from Afghan affairs when the Soviets left. The Afghans were used as a tool and then discarded when they were no longer useful. 

I have a hard time believing the US cares about the Afghan people.

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## glad

This would.................


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## Evil Flare

A US helicopter crash in eastern Afghanistan has killed 31 US special forces and seven Afghan soldiers, President Hamid Karzai's office says.

The helicopter was taking the personnel back to their base after an operation.

Neither the US nor Nato have confirmed the cause, but witnesses, officials and the Taliban say it was shot down.

The incident is believed to be the biggest single loss of life for US forces in Afghanistan since operations began in 2001.

The Chinook helicopter went down overnight in Wardak province, the statement from President Karzai's office said.

It was returning from an operation against the Taliban in which eight insurgents are believed to have been killed.

A senior official of President Barack Obama's administration said the helicopter was apparently shot down, Associated Press news agency said.

An official with the Nato-led coalition in Afghanistan told the New York Times the helicopter was shot down with a rocket-propelled grenade.

'Enemy activity'
"The president of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan expresses his sympathy and deep condolences to US President Barack Obama and the family of the victims," the statement from Hamid Karzai said.

President Obama, too, issued a statement paying tribute to the Americans and Afghans who died in the crash.

"We will draw inspiration from their lives, and continue the work of securing our country and standing up for the values that they embodied. We also mourn the Afghans who died alongside our troops in pursuit of a more peaceful and hopeful future for their country," the statement said.

The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force has confirmed the helicopter crash but has not released details of casualties or the cause.

ABC News said 25 Navy Seals were on board, plus seven Afghan special forces soldiers, five crew and one interpreter.

Nato said it was mounting an operation to recover the helicopter and find out why it crashed. It said there had been "enemy activity in the area" where it went down.

A Taliban spokesman said insurgents had brought down the helicopter with a rocket after US and Afghan troops attacked a house in the Sayd Abad district of Wardak where insurgents were meeting late on Friday, Associated Press said.

Sayd Abad, near the province of Kabul, is known to have a strong Taliban presence.

A Wardak government spokesman quoted by AFP news agency agreed with this, saying the helicopter was hit as it was taking off.

A local resident told the BBC Pashto service a rocket hit the helicopter.

"What we saw was that when we having our pre-dawn (Ramadan) meal, Americans landed some soldiers for an early raid," said Mohammad Wali Wardag.

"This other helicopter also came for the raid. We were outside our rooms on a veranda and saw this helicopter flying very low, it was hit by a rocket and it was on fire. It started coming down and crashed just away from our home close to the river."


There are currently about 140,000 foreign troops - about 100,000 of them American - in Afghanistan, fighting the Taliban insurgency and training local troops to take over security.

All foreign combat forces are due to leave Afghanistan by the end of 2014 and some troop withdrawals have already taken place.

Nato has begun the process of handing over control of security in some areas to local forces, with Bamiyan becoming the first province to pass to Afghan control in mid-July.

An increase in US troop numbers last year has had some success combating the Taliban in the south of Afghanistan, but attacks in the north, which was previously relatively quiet, have picked up in recent months.

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## CardSharp

WAQAS119 said:


> They are tools of our enemy. We lost 40,000 precious lives and they are responsible for that.


 
Like you said they were the tools. I doubt any of those 31 killed woke up one day and deicide to shoot people in Afghanistan. They were told to fight in Afghanistan.


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## JingDong

CardSharp said:


> *... so what have you really accomplished besides adding to the misery?*



Agreed. They added a lot of misery to the life of Osama Bin Laden.

Just as they added a lot of misery to the life of Hitler, half a centry back.


They brought so much "misery" to Japan in 1945... Perhaps, they should have left the didactic Chinese to deal with Japan.


After all, why don't they just "forget and forgive" Pearl Harbor and 9/11.


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## WAQAS119

JingDong said:


> After all, why don't they just "forget and forgive" Pearl Harbor and 9/11.


 
How was that Peral Harbor and 9/11 related to a normal civilian living in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iraq? They killed millions of people in revenge of Pearl Harbor and 9/11?

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## CardSharp

JingDong said:


> Agreed. They added a lot of misery to the life of Osama Bin Laden.
> 
> Just as they added a lot of misery to the life of Hitler, half a centry back.
> 
> 
> They brought so much "misery" to Japan in 1945... Perhaps, they should have left the didactic Chinese to deal with Japan.
> 
> 
> After all, why don't they just "forget and forgive" Pearl Harbor and 9/11.


 
Begone you intellectual midget.


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## M8R

As the Americans said in Pakistani Civilians Death Thread Quote( They were just at the wrong place at the wrong time).Unquote.


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## JingDong

CardSharp said:


> Begone you intellectual midget.



Agree with you again.

After all, what have I accomplished apart from adding to your misery.


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## A1Kaid

According to CNN US military confirmed majority of those dead were Navy Seals. This is the biggest combat loss in US Special Forces history, and has operational consequences for the Navy Seals. Considering there is a limited number of Navy Seals.


Taliban claims they shot the Ch-47 down, quite possible considering they knew about the crash as soon as possible and immediately...

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## Ahmad

CardSharp said:


> And before 2001 what enabled the Taliban to come to power? I would argue it had something to do with the total US withdrawal from Afghan affairs when the Soviets left. The Afghans were used as a tool and then discarded when they were no longer useful.
> 
> I have a hard time believing the US cares about the Afghan people.


 Others have always plaid their games in Afghanistan, be it superpowers or neighbors, if there is total withdrawal i gave you the account.


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## Mosamania

This is why I hate war. All wars are bad regardless of what the intended purpose is. These days political power > Military power. Not like old times but some countries like the united states still thinks it is living in medieval and roman times.

RIP to the dead soldiers. From both sides. Both of them believed what they were doing was right under the manipulation of their leaders.

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## IranZamin

CardSharp said:


> Like you said they were the tools. I doubt any of those 31 killed woke up one day and deicide to shoot people in Afghanistan. They were told to fight in Afghanistan.


 
This is what you get for being a occupation soldier. May the occupation shame be branded on their soul forever


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## pakdefender

Helicopter Crash in Afghanistan Reportedly Kills Members of SEAL Team 6 - FoxNews.com

The ones who died in the crash were from SEAL Team 6 , the same one involved in the Bin Laden raid
Could this be a CIA-hit to cover up for whatever did or did not happen that night?! This angle needs to be scrutinized

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## A1Kaid

^ The ghost of Bin Laden haunts them...

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

I pray for peace and stability in both Pakistan and aghanistan.
lives on every side should be saved............................


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## pakdefender

SEAL Team Six: Is their safety being compromised? - CSMonitor.com



> *As details of the raid continue to leak out,* the US military is exploring ways to *&#8220;pump up the security"* for SEAL Team Six, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday.



Looks like the SEAL team just got 'pumped' and this raises the question *who* was 'leaking' the details about the raid that got the SEALs concerned about the safety of their families? This looks like an inside job to get these guys killed to hush them up for good and to ensure that no first hand account of that fateful night to ever emerge

If there is a rouge agency in the world today it is indeed the CIA

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## Xeric

Team 6; coincidence or what?


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## rollindays

And some people in the terrorism threat index still think Pakistan is worse than Afghanistan


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## dexbarman

it may also be due to technical snag and the taliban taking false credit.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

the day afghan liberal and pro indian government accepts and respects Pakistan, more then half of problem would be solved.
there would have been no USSR, taliban, and US, had they sincerely accepted us ........ many lives would have been saved.....
but still kutte ki dum terhi he rehti hae.................


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## Mosamania

pakdefender said:


> Helicopter Crash in Afghanistan Reportedly Kills Members of SEAL Team 6 - FoxNews.com
> 
> The ones who died in the crash were from SEAL Team 6 , the same one involved in the Bin Laden raid
> Could this be a CIA-hit to cover up for whatever did or did not happen that night?! This angle needs to be scrutinized


 
OMG the irony..... I am still in shock a little...


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## Ahmad

rollindays said:


> And some people in the terrorism threat index still think Pakistan is worse than Afghanistan


 
You cant just judge everything based on a single incident.


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## Dr. NooB NinjA

RIP to the dead.....


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## rollindays

Ahmad said:


> You cant just judge everything based on a single incident.


 
What is going on in the past one month is pretty indicative of the situation currently prevailing in Afghanistan. Also, Wardak is right next to Kabul to its west, & one would expect less of a Taliban stronghold there.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Ahmad said:


> You cant just judge everything based on a single incident.


 ahmad bhi we always wish good for afghanistan then why u people has venom for us....

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## Ahmad

rollindays said:


> What is going on in the past one month is pretty indicative of the situation currently prevailing in Afghanistan. Also, Wardak is right next to Kabul to its west, & one would expect less of a Taliban stronghold there.


 
we have seen very bad sitations in pakistan too.


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## Water Car Engineer

Big loss, RIP..


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

rollindays said:


> What is going on in the past one month is pretty indicative of the situation currently prevailing in Afghanistan. Also, Wardak is right next to Kabul to its west, & one would expect less of a Taliban stronghold there.


 come on yar we need stable afghansitan for peaceful PAKISTAN,,,,,,,,,,,

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

rollindays said:


> What is going on in the past one month is pretty indicative of the situation currently prevailing in Afghanistan. Also, Wardak is right next to Kabul to its west, & one would expect less of a Taliban stronghold there.


 come on yar we need stable afghansitan for peaceful PAKISTAN,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Oldman1

Mosamania said:


> OMG the irony..... I am still in shock a little...


 
Say what? CIA cover up? You realize how big SIX is? And they do operations in Afghanistan all the time, should it not be a coincidence that they are involved?

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## Ahmad

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> ahmad bhi we always wish good for afghanistan then why u people has venom for us....


 
You go and find the answer, i dont know, tell me why? you claim that you wish good for us, but we wish bad? why is that? what is the reason here?


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## Meengla

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world/asia/07afghanistan.html?hp


> Saturday&#8217;s attack shows how deeply entrenched the insurgency remains even far from its main strongholds in southern Afghanistan and along the Afghan-Pakistani border in the east. American soldiers had recently turned over the sole combat outpost in the Tangi Valley to Afghans.



Well, thank goodness that it was 'far from' the Pakistani border. But don't hold your breath: Pakistan will still be blamed, unless this time Iran is the flavor of day/month/year now.


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## rollindays

Ahmad said:


> we have seen very bad sitations in pakistan too.


 
Nothing like this. The threat to Pakistan is only restricted to FATA & KP. Taliban is pretty much in control of all of Afghanistan, besides Kabul.


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## rollindays

Ahmad said:


> You go and find the answer, i dont know, tell me why? you claim that you wish good for us, but we wish bad? why is that? what is the reason here?


 
The problem with many Afghans is that they live in Pakistan, get their bread & butter in Pakistan, don't want to go back to Afghanistan; but still hate Pakistan.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Ahmad said:


> You go and find the answer, i dont know, tell me why? you claim that you wish good for us, but we wish bad? why is that? what is the reason here?


 every thing was started from your side from very 1st day afghan govt tried her best to destabilize PAKISTAN, ..........................
you need to read history.......


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## Oldman1

nuclearpak said:


> But Ch-53 is retired from service now, V-22 and chinook are the two helis that can carry as many troops. V-22 in a floor sit configuration.


 
The Air Force version is, but not the Marine Corps'.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

rollindays said:


> The problem with many Afghans is that they live in Pakistan, get their bread & butter in Pakistan, don't want to go back to Afghanistan; but still hate Pakistan.


 
if look back into history , what they did with muslim migrants during khilafat movement.....


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## Ahmad

I cant see the posts in page 6, i don't know what is going on.


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## forcetrip

The war of intel agencies is about to spill a bad way.


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## Abingdonboy

Such a tragic loss of life especially as it has been confirmed these were SOFs- the best of the best in any army, representing the best any army has to offer, this loss will be felt hard. It has also been speculated these were DEVGRU- same guys as OBL raid, such a waste of great men. Most likely these men were on route to conduct a raid- something US/Afghan SF now do on a regular basis against high value targets, many in OBL raid had gained most of their experience conducting these raids. 


RIP heroes.


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## Bratva

pakdefender said:


> Helicopter Crash in Afghanistan Reportedly Kills Members of SEAL Team 6 - FoxNews.com
> 
> The ones who died in the crash were from SEAL Team 6 , the same one involved in the Bin Laden raid
> Could this be a CIA-hit to cover up for whatever did or did not happen that night?! This angle needs to be scrutinized


 
The ghost of bin ladin turned the RPG in to the guided missile

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## Mosamania

mafiya said:


> The ghost of bin ladin turned the RPG in to the guided missile


 
Lol i get the joke but this is not the time to be joking especially about people dying.


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## Oldman1

mafiya said:


> The ghost of bin ladin turned the RPG in to the guided missile


 
That be like saying the ghosts of the Pentagon, Twin Towers and the planes got Bin Laden.


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## Meengla

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world/asia/07afghanistan.html?pagewanted=2&hp


> Within a few days of the transition, the Taliban raised their flag near the outpost, said a NATO military official familiar with the situation. Afghan security forces remained in the area *but were no match for the Taliban,* the official said.
> 
> ...They do not like having military in that area  no matter whether they are Taliban or foreigners, said Hajji Mohammad Hazrat Janan, the chairman of the Wardak provincial council. When an operation takes place in their village, he said, their sleep gets disrupted by the noise of helicopters and by their military operation. And also they dont like the Taliban, because when they attack, then they go and seek cover in their village, and they are threatened by the Taliban.
> 
> However, when local residents are hurt by the NATO soldiers, then, he said, *they are willing to help the insurgents*.



So..Americans clear up an area and hand over to the Afghans. Supposedly, the non-Pashtun elements dominate the political and security forces in Afghanistan--and that in a country where the largest single ethnic group of Pashtuns. But these Afghan security forces are so incompetent and/or coward that they can't hold the ground for more than a few days/weeks?

Looks to me like this is a guerrilla war. Blame Pakistan all you want--and already people at Huffington Post are doing that. But where is the accountability for the political mis-calculation by Americans in Afghanistan? Where is the accountability for the millions of $$ spent on 'training' these Afghans, only to see them surrender and/or betray.

Pakistanis are not the only one who do the blame game and are in 'denial'.

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## Ahmad

rollindays said:


> Nothing like this. The threat to Pakistan is only restricted to FATA & KP. Taliban is pretty much in control of all of Afghanistan, besides Kabul.


 
how about high profile attacks on army HQs, intelligtence HQs, and the one which destroyed a few fighter planes?


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## Ahmad

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> every thing was started from your side from very 1st day afghan govt tried her best to destabilize PAKISTAN, ..........................
> you need to read history.......


 
i know about it and i know what you mean. it was all about pashtunistan issue, since Pakistan and pakisani friends consider to be protective of pashtuns and beating the drums in favour of pashtuns, they need to bear that demand of pashtuns as well, as that issue havent had anything to do with non pashtuyns of afghanistan and it was only done and decided by the pashtun gov of afghanistan.

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## Sargodhian_Eagle

Oldman1 said:


> That be like saying the ghosts of the Pentagon, Twin Towers and the planes got Bin Laden.


 
Ghost of ISI is more dangrouse one, so i think it haunted the SEALS.


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## rollindays

The fact of the matter is that the Taliban has been in power in Afghanistan, it has strongholds all over the country, they are strictly based in Afghanistan. There is fighting going on between the Taliban & Pakistan as well on the border areas, because Pakistan allows drone strikes in the region & its complicity with the US Forces, but once the US & NATO Forces leave Afghanistan; the Taliban will start concentrating solely on Afghanistan again. While the Afghans are brutal, they do not have a global agenda of spreading their ideology in the region, they are very localized groups, & they want to maintain control & influence in only those areas that they feel they belong to. That is a fact, & that has been mentioned by many senior Taliban leaders. The Taliban is a strictly Afghan movement cloaked in its Pashtun identity, it is much more of an ethnic movement than it is an ideological one. *It's unfortunate that Afghans want to live in denial, & don't want to face the reality, that the current government does not have any legitimacy, & besides Kabul, the Taliban have influence all over Afghanistan.*

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## Ahmad

Meengla said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world/asia/07afghanistan.html?pagewanted=2&hp
> 
> 
> So..Americans clear up an area and hand over to the Afghans. Supposedly, the non-Pashtun elements dominate the political and security forces in Afghanistan--and that in a country where the largest single ethnic group of Pashtuns. But these Afghan security forces are so incompetent and/or coward that they can't hold the ground for more than a few days/weeks?
> 
> Looks to me like this is a guerrilla war. Blame Pakistan all you want--and already people at Huffington Post are doing that. But where is the accountability for the political mis-calculation by Americans in Afghanistan? Where is the accountability for the millions of $$ spent on 'training' these Afghans, only to see them surrender and/or betray.
> 
> Pakistanis are not the only one who do the blame game and are in 'denial'.


 
pashtuns have more power and personell in any establishement of Afghanistan compare to the non pashtuns. you shouldnt be unhappy if the non pashtuns get their rightful rights in afghansitan, at least you people will have a peace of mind from their side(non pashtuns) because they dont claim on pakistani territory.

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## razgriz19

38 soldiers died...
RIP


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## S10

> KABUL, Afghanistan (AP)  *A military helicopter was shot down in eastern Afghanistan, killing 31 U.S. special operation troops, most of them from the elite Navy SEALs unit that killed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, along with seven Afghan commandos.* It was the deadliest single incident for American forces in the decade-long war.
> The Taliban claimed they downed the helicopter with rocket fire while it was taking part in a raid on a house where insurgents were gathered in the province of Wardak late Friday. It said wreckage of the craft was strewn at the scene. A senior U.S. administration official in Washington said the craft was apparently shot down by insurgents. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the crash is still being investigated.



31 Americans, 7 Afghans killed in helicopter crash - Yahoo! News

Most of those that died are from the same unit from the Bin Laden raid in Pakistan. I guess Bin Laden decided to drag some down with him.


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## Meengla

Ahmad said:


> pashtuns have more power and personell in any establishement of Afghanistan compare to the non pashtuns. you shouldnt be unhappy if the non pashtuns get their rightful rights in afghansitan, at least you people will have a peace of mind from their side(non pashtuns) because they dont claim on pakistani territory.


 
@Ahmad,
I am willing to be corrected. But I have read that Pashtuns really don't have real power despite Karzai being the President and that the Northern Alliance is essentially the real power and that the security forces are predominately non-Pashtuns. That was not some smart political move by the coalition forces.
BTW, you really can't accuse me personally of wanting the non-Pashtuns to not have power. I have stated that Pashtuns feel deprived after the Fall of the Talibans in 2001 and that's why I think this is essentially a civil war.

I hope you Afghans of all shades get your act together and become one nation. I know there are ethnic divisions in Pakistan too but, boy, even in your pre 1979 era you were an extremely tribal society with very little to show for and flirted with communism in a deeply religious, agrarian society. There is so much you can blame Pakistan. Sadly, your country has become a playground for different powers since late 70's and today it is the same. *You have a govt. which really can't stand on its own despite almost 10 years of the mightiest military and economic powers propping you up. Why is that?*

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## ejaz007

*31 Americans, 7 Afghans killed in helicopter crash*
By SOLOMON MOORE - Associated Press | AP  1 hr 26 mins ago.

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP)  *A military helicopter was shot down in eastern Afghanistan, killing 31 U.S. special operation troops, most of them from the elite Navy SEALs unit that killed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, along with seven Afghan commandos. It was the deadliest single incident for American forces in the decade-long war.*

The Taliban claimed they downed the helicopter with rocket fire while it was taking part in a raid on a house where insurgents were gathered in the province of Wardak late Friday. It said wreckage of the craft was strewn at the scene. A senior U.S. administration official in Washington said the craft was apparently shot down by insurgents. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the crash is still being investigated.

NATO confirmed the overnight crash took place and that there "was enemy activity in the area." But it said it was still investigating the cause and conducting a recovery operation at the site. It did not release details or casualty figures.

"We are in the process of accessing the facts," said U.S. Air Force Capt. Justin Brockhoff, a NATO spokesman.

One current and one former U.S. official said that the dead included more than 20 Navy SEALs from SEAL Team Six, the unit that carried out the raid in Pakistan in May that killed bin Laden. They were being flown by acrew of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because families are still being notified.


President Barack Obama mourned the deaths of the American troops, saying in a statement that the crash serves as a reminder of the "extraordinary sacrifices" being made by the U.S. military and its families. He said he also mourned "the Afghans who died alongside our troops."


The death toll would surpass the worst single day loss of life for the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan since the war began in 2001  the June 28, 2005 downing of a military helicopter in eastern Kunar province. In that incident, 16 Navy SEALs and Army special operations troops were killed when their craft was shot down while on a mission to rescue four SEALs under attack by the Taliban. Three of the SEALs being rescued were also killed and the fourth wounded. It was the highest one-day death toll for the Navy Special Warfare personnel since World War II.

31 Americans, 7 Afghans killed in helicopter crash - Yahoo! News

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## Devil Soul

*AP sources: Afghanistan copter Crash kills members of SEAL Team 6*
AP | Aug 6, 2011
WASHINGTON: The Associated Press has learned that more than 20 Navy SEALs from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden were among those lost in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan. 

US officials say they believe that none of those who died in the crash participated in the bin Laden raid but were from the same unit that carried out the bin Laden mission. 

The operators from SEAL Team Six were flown by a crew of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. That's according to one current and one former U.S. official. Both spoke on condition of anonymity because families are still being notified of the loss of their loved ones. 

One source says the team was thought to include 22 SEALs, three Air Force air controllers, seven Afghan Army troops, a dog and his handler, and a civilian interpreter, plus the helicopter crew. 

The sources thought this was the largest single loss of life ever for SEAL Team Six, known as the Naval Special Warfare Development Group.


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## A1Kaid

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> I pray for peace and stability in both Pakistan and aghanistan.
> lives on every side should be saved............................


 
You should pray and/or work to become stronger and wiser men. That will help.


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## glad

I pray and/work to hard for men.


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## Ahmad

> @Ahmad,
> I am willing to be corrected. But I have read that Pashtuns really don't have real power despite Karzai being the President and that the Northern Alliance is essentially the real power and that the security forces are predominately non-Pashtuns. That was not some smart political move by the coalition forces.
> BTW, you really can't accuse me personally of wanting the non-Pashtuns to not have power. I have stated that Pashtuns feel deprived after the Fall of the Talibans in 2001 and that's why I think this is essentially a civil war.


You might have read it, but it is not reality, the non pashtun parties or i should say the only main party is in opposition, they are not in gov anyway. Hizbe Islami Gulbudin Hekmatyar who is fighting the gov have probably more administrators, governers and officials than the main tajik party led by Abdullah. Yes, pashtuns are not happy and there is a reason for it, they had 100% controll and power before 2001 while the other groups were having zero share, the same thing is correct during Zahir Shah's time when the gov was purely pashtun and military was purely pashtun, they have lost that dominance and they are not happy.



> I hope you Afghans of all shades get your act together and become one nation. I know there are ethnic divisions in Pakistan too but, boy, even in your pre 1979 era you were an extremely tribal society with very little to show for and flirted with communism in a deeply religious, agrarian society. There is so much you can blame Pakistan. Sadly, your country has become a playground for different powers since late 70's and today it is the same. *You have a govt. which really can't stand on its own despite almost 10 years of the mightiest military and economic powers propping you up. Why is that?*



What we see in Afghanisan is something we need to blame ourselves, but it will be very unjust to blame afghans for thier misary only, how come a poor nation like afghanistan could stand against the might of 2 superpowers and many other regional powers while they had decided to test their might and power in our country? i think we had little chance.

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## Ahmad

glad said:


> I pray and/work to hard for men.


 
What ??


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## A1Kaid

The irony in all of this is incredible. The same Navy Seals Team (Team 6) that carried out the operation to assassinate OBL now gets attacked in Afghanistan in a major strike by the Afghan Taliban, with deadly results.

Taliban, those guys are hardcore...


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## waz

RIP to the fallen who died in the line of duty. 

There will probably be a big investigation into just what the Taliban used. Is this the advent of shoulder launched missiles being used or just an RPG hit?


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## Meengla

@Ahmad,
I am one of those people here who would say that there should not be more weight given to the Pashtuns than their numbers--after all, they are not even 50 of the population. Greed for power is unjust and counter-productive. But it is for you Afghans to settle that. At least, in 10 years, you should have had a viable force for the post-America period. TEN YEARS! 
And I am not blaming Afghans for all their problem. I have clearly stated that since late 70's Afghanistan is a playground for other powers. And let me tell you this: You are not helping the situation by NOT speaking as one nation. In the 70s a segment of your society thought that communism was good, while other segments thought otherwise. That allowed two superpowers to play their games. And right now you have one superpower propping up an ineffective, corrupt, and frankly cowardly government while a large part of your society is resisting that.
Speak as one nation! For once resolve your disputes and then no one can take advantage of you.


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## A1Kaid

The Afghan Taliban conducted the deadliest attack on any US Special Forces in US military history.


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## Ahmad

^^^if we speak as one nation, then much of our problem is solved, sadly this is bitter truth that is haunting us.

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## rollindays

I don't want to sound condescending or anything, but the world's strongest powers have invested heavily in Afghanistan; militarily, economically, politically for 10 years now; but there is no change in Afghanistan. The US & international forces have spent their resources to the point of severe depletion to shore up the ANA & the ANF, yet, they are not able to challenge the militants in the region, & are in fact, losing out to them? What is the solution for Afghanistan? The fact of the matter is, the Taliban in Afghanistan are more than just a few extremists, but have more legitimacy that the current present government in Kabul. Whether the Afghans want to deny this fact or not, is up to them.


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## Meengla

Ahmad said:


> ^^^if we speak as one nation, then much of our problem is solved, sadly this is bitter truth that is haunting us.


 
You are correct.
You know there is military operation going on in Pakistan's tribal areas. Some people call it Pashtun ethnic cleansing. But, by and large, most Pakistanis, even Pashtuns (ANP is a Pashtun nationalist party) support the Pakistani army crushing the militants. So, to this day, no one has been able to hurt Pakistan beyond acts of terrorism done by the fanatics. You need a similar model. 
My advice for our Afghan brothers would be to politely but firmly tell both India, Pakistan, Iran and the NATO elements to get out of Afghan affairs totally, form a grand coalition govt. based upon ethnic population for 10 years, bring back refugees and start building back your nation. You have a beautiful country with enough resources for your population.

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## r3alist

Chogy said:


> No one is blaming Pakistan. That's ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> My sincere wish for you is that you will one day live under Taliban-style leadership. That is, unless you are one yourself in thought and deed. Whip any women lately? Drop off any poison gas at a girls' school?


 
Bombed any weddings?
Killed many kids?

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## MUHARIB

RIP to the heroes who died in the line of duty.


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## Avishek

RIP to the dead.some very disgusting comments on this thread.


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## XYON

mafiya said:


> The ghost of bin ladin turned the RPG in to the guided missile


 
As the saying goes, something is crooked in Denmark!!!! (read CIA). 

If a dead OBL was GERONIMO!

Would then the 31 dead US SEAL TEAM 6 DEVGRU Members be FLY SWAT!!??

As now its Afghan Talibaan time to announce..............For God & Country, GERONIMO x 31........!!!

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## XYON

MUHARIB said:


> RIP to the heroes who died in the line of duty.


 
I think that the same applies to OBL too though the definition of 'duty' may differ in both cases!!


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## Splurgenxs




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## fd24

I accept that any loss of life is sad. But we must remember that a loss of a muslims life is no less sad. Why is it that prixx like 

"the president of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan expresses his sympathy and deep condolences to US President Barack Obama and the family of the victims," the statement from President Karzai said

Yea we have people dieing as result of drone strikes often innocent hardly anyone makes a big deal about it. these so called soldiers chose to join the american army which was sent by americans to kill muslims. Why then should we value their life more than innocent drone victims. 

It is now clear that if the americans did kill Osama by their own admission they admit they killed an unarmed individual. This was murder and carried out by these same special forces, live by sword die by the sword i say.

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## MM_Haider

just heard on Geo that the navy seals who were involved in OBL raid were on that chopper..

Now this begs a big *question* on the credibility on the operation geronemo..

here is another link to this news..

31 US troops killed as helicopter goes down - World news - South and Central Asia - Afghanistan - msnbc.com

KABUL, Afghanistan &#8212; President Barack Obama said Saturday that the deaths of Americans in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan are a reminder of the "extraordinary" price the U.S. military is paying in the decade-long Afghan war.

A military helicopter was shot down in eastern Afghanistan, killing 31 U.S. special operation troops, most of them from the elite Navy SEALs unit that killed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, along with seven Afghan commandos. It was the deadliest single incident for American forces in the decade-long war. How many actually participated in the bin Laden raid was not known.
U.S. officials believe that none of those who died in the crash had participated in the bin Laden raid, although they were from the same unit that carried out that mission, two officials told The Associated Press. They spoke about matters of military security on condition of anonymity.

Obama, who learned of the incident at Camp David, issued a statement saying his thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those who perished. The White House had no comment about the details of who died or what happened.

"Their deaths are a reminder of the extraordinary sacrifices made by the men and women of our military and their families, including all who have served in Afghanistan," the president said. "We will draw inspiration from their lives, and continue the work of securing our country and standing up for the values that they embodied."

Obama said he also mourned the loss of seven Afghans "who died alongside our troops in pursuit of a more peaceful and hopeful future for their country."

National security adviser Tom Donilon first notified Obama of the incident shortly after 8 p.m. ET Friday. The president spoke again to Donilon later Friday night and received a paper briefing both that evening and Saturday morning. 

Obama issued his written statement just shy of 10 a.m. Saturday. A half-hour later, Obama, at Camp David, was briefed via conference call by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, White House chief of staff Bill Daley, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen, Donilon and members of the president's national security staff.

One source said the team was thought to include 22 SEALs, three Air Force air controllers, seven Afghan Army troops, a dog and his handler, and a civilian interpreter, plus the helicopter crew.

The sources thought this was the largest single loss of life ever for SEAL Team Six, known as the Naval Special Warfare Development Group.

A brief statement from the presidential palace said the helicopter had crashed in central Wardak province, an area west of Kabul. The volatile region is known for its strong Taliban presence. 

Afghan President Hamid Karzai "shared his deep sorrow and sadness" with U.S. counterpart Barack Obama and the families of the U.S. and Afghan victims, the statement said.

The Taliban claimed to have shot down the troop-carrying Chinook helicopter during a firefight. The Islamist group also said in a statement that eight insurgents had been killed in the battle.

NBC News quoted a Taliban spokesman as claiming the U.S. troops were attacking a compound that was housing militants when the aircraft was brought down. However, the Taliban has been known to make exaggerated claims in the past.


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## Donatello

what were so many SEALs doing there? I though they always remained in their home base?


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## fd24

Why is it that everyone talks about american deaths but not muslim. headlines say 31 Americans what about 7 afghans.


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## rollindays

superkaif said:


> Why is it that everyone talks about american deaths but not muslim. headlines say 31 Americans what about 7 afghans.


 
The Afghan fighters & the Afghan government is futile, as they pretty much just follow the orders of the US & the international forces, & have no credibility or legitimacy in the eyes of the Afghan people. This is death in the call of duty, losses are anticipated & part of everything, & people have to accept that before taking on missions like these.


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## SEAL

I think CIA behind this RIP to the dead.


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## NeutralCitizen

Apparently 20-25 seals were killed I hear, And the Death toll is 37 RIP.


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## ULTRAVIOLET

RIP to the brave solders....


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## sur

Alhamdulillah ... More such incidences should happen ...

Like *after* 6 nuke laden cruises "*Accidentally*" flew from Minot Airbase to Barksdale, 7-8 of crew members who worked on either of that base died in "*ACCIDENTS*" ... similarly, if news posted above is true that these 31 who died took part in *so-called OBL raid*, & since that was a staged-play so all those who had inside knowledge had to be "*eliminated*", then it was definitely CIA or private contractors who simply wiped the all those front-line crew who had insider information...


& then *appearance of Obama on TV* especially on this incidence was necessary to add credibility to story that insurgents shot-down that plane, NOT the zionist-controlled CIA/Contractors ...

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## fd24

rollindays said:


> The Afghan fighters & the Afghan government is futile, as they pretty much just follow the orders of the US & the international forces, & have no credibility or legitimacy in the eyes of the Afghan people. This is death in the call of duty, losses are anticipated & part of everything, & people have to accept that before taking on missions like these.



Yea but my point is why is it american dead always get so many headlines and world leaders saying how sad it is. I mean karzai hardly comments on innocent muslim victims of american war on terror,


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## sur

*Now lets dump their roting-filtthy-dead bodies into the sea IMMEDIATELY ... 
& then ... & then ... I'll announce that I'll go on scuba-diving mission to find-out those dead bodies ... OK*


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## rollindays

superkaif said:


> Yea but my point is why is it american dead always get so many headlines and world leaders saying how sad it is. I mean karzai hardly comments on innocent musslim victims of american war on terror,


 
Guess who's running Afghanistan? It's not the Afghans. There is practically no Afghan government.


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## cyphercide

"Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." The Holy Bible 

Is it not a fact that the CIA albeit indirectly,funded and trained the Mujahideen fighters in the application of stinger missiles against the erstwhile Soviet Union's choppers and even fighter jets? And now you wonder how they metamorphosed into such great shooters of helicopters like Chinooks?It's because Americans friggin taught them how to shoot them down!

On a side-note,Why are Pakistanis feeling so mournful on this development?So easy to forget all the civilian causalities that the American drones are claiming till this date?I recall this saying from when I was back in India,"laaton ke bhoot batoon se nahin mante"(hope I got that right)

My earnest apologies to all if you think I'm being insensitive but I felt this needed to be said.


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## CardSharp

cyphercide said:


> "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." The Holy Bible
> 
> Is it not a fact that the CIA albeit indirectly,funded and trained the Mujahideen fighters in the application of stinger missiles against the erstwhile Soviet Union's choppers and even fighter jets? And now you wonder how they metamorphosed into such great shooters of helicopters like Chinooks?It's because Americans friggin taught them how to shoot them down!
> 
> On a side-note,Why are Pakistanis feeling so mournful on this development?So easy to forget all the civilian causalities that the American drones are claiming till this date?I recall this saying from when I was back in India,"laaton ke bhoot batoon se nahin mante"(hope I got that right)
> 
> My earnest apologies to all if you think I'm being insensitive but I felt this needed to be said.


 
So these soldiers dying will punish the people who started this war? How much do you think the American political elite cares about dead soldiers?

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## MUHARIB

U.S. official: Killed forces were on Afghanistan rescue mission - CNN.com

Very sad..it seems like they were on a rescue mission.
This is just like redwings...but even worse.


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## anon45

A1Kaid said:


> The irony in all of this is incredible. The same Navy Seals Team (Team 6) that carried out the operation to assassinate OBL now gets attacked in Afghanistan in a major strike by the Afghan Taliban, with deadly results.
> 
> Taliban, those guys are hardcore...


 
None of those who participated in the Bin Laden raid were on the flight...

RIP to the dead, vengeance on the Taliban.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

> MULLEN: "It's also important that we respect the process of notifying family members, no matter how long that takes. We ought to remember that the troops we lose in this war aren't just statistics or numbers on a wall. They were parents and siblings, and someone's child. We need to make sure we do all we can to comfort and support the families whose lives are now forever changed."



Switch 'troops' to mean 'innocent civilians/Pakistani soldiers etc.' killed in drones strikes and botched bombings/raids.

No such respect, from the US, to be seen there ....

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## Donatello

sur said:


> Alhamdulillah ... More such incidences should happen ...
> 
> Like *after* 6 nuke laden cruises "*Accidentally*" flew from Minot Airbase to Barksdale, 7-8 of crew members who worked on either of that base died in "*ACCIDENTS*" ... similarly, if news posted above is true that these 31 who died took part in *so-called OBL raid*, & since that was a staged-play so all those who had inside knowledge had to be "*eliminated*", then it was definitely CIA or private contractors who simply wiped the all those front-line crew who had insider information...
> 
> 
> & then *appearance of Obama on TV* especially on this incidence was necessary to add credibility to story that insurgents shot-down that plane, NOT the zionist-controlled CIA/Contractors ...


 

Calm down or you might get banned soon.


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## fd24

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Switch 'troops' to mean 'innocent civilians/Pakistani soldiers etc.' killed in drones strikes and botched bombings/raids.
> 
> No such respect, from the US, to be seen there ....


 
The americans have little respect for any human life especially muslims. Im sorry but its been a long time coming america is losing more than the lifes of these soldiers. They are losing our patience and respect.


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## kobiraaz

Associated Press sources are reporting a statistically impossible tragedy for U.S. forces in Afghanistan that of the 38 NATO forces killed in a helicopter crash Friday night, more than 20&#8243; were members of SEAL Team 6, the covert unit that took credit for killing Osama bin Laden in May.

Mainstream sources are seizing upon claims that the Taliban took credit for downing the helicopter, but that means nothing. Media instantly ran reports that al Qaeda was responsible for the bombing & shootings in Norway; moreover, anyone on a message board can make such claims.

Instead, Alex Jones predicted shortly after the raid on bin Ladens compound that SEALs would soon be reported dead in a helicopter crash or staged incident following multiple reports from military sources whove proved accurate in the past, including on-air callers, that SEALs did indeed die during the raid. Official stories admitted after-the-fact that a helicopter went down during the mission, but claimed there were no deaths of U.S. forces.

Below is Alexs report on the breaking news of SEAL Team 6&#8242;s official demise:






Infowars is on the record reporting that members of Seal Team 6 died in the so called OBL raid. The government admits that a super secret helicopter did crash during the OBL raid but says no one died, our intel is different. We predicted that the spin doctors would stage a crash or when a real crash took place that they would say the SEALs died then. This is a old trick that governments all over the world have been caught pulling in the past. Some speculate that Obama had the team killed to cover up what really happened; however our intel does not point that way. The Pentagon may have blown the helicopter up on the ground on the night of the raid and we cover that in the above video. Lastly the globalist MSM is reporting that terrorist have taken credit but that is notoriously filled with disinfo, like in the Norway attack when a fake terrorist group took credit and the media ran with it.

According to the sources, military personnel internally admit to the SEAL deaths, however it was not clear whether it had been the result of an accidental crash, from a firefight with Pakistani military forces stationed only a short distance from the compound, or whether, as Pakistani eyewitnesses indicated (below), the helicopter exploded after covert forces entered.

Whatever the true story, one thing is clear: dead men tell no tales. The inconvenient truth is that governments throughout history have disposed of heroes, covert troops and special forces to keep the real story from coming out. Helicopter and plane crashes have been one of the favorite methods for tying up these loose ends.

Abbottabad residents told CCTV reporters they dont believe Osama bin Laden was ever at this compund and that the operation was a hoax. Pakistans anti-terrorist squad also could not confirm the killing, according to reports.






Pakistani eyewitnesses to the Abbottabad raid on Osamas reputed compound reported that a U.S. helicopter exploded and that Americans died, despite the fact that mainstream media reports claimed no one died in the raid. The crash was reported but remains little explained.

As Dr. Paul Craig Roberts presciently dredged up again only yesterday:

In the immediate aftermath of bin Ladens alleged murder by the SEALs, Pakistani TV interviewed the next door neighbor to bin Ladens alleged compound. Someone supplied the video with an English translation running at the bottom of the video. According to the translation, the next door neighbor, Mr. Bashir, said that he watched the entire operation from the roof of his house. There were 3 helicopters. Only 1 landed. About a dozen men got out and entered the house. They shortly returned and boarded the helicopter. When the helicopter lifted off it exploded, killing all aboard. Mr. Bashir reports seeing bodies and pieces of bodies all over.

The US government acknowledges that it lost a helicopter, but claims no one was hurt. Obviously, as there were no further landings, if everyone was killed as Mr. Bashir reports, there was no body to be dumped into the ocean.

SEAL Team 6 was formally dissolved in 1987, becoming the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, with its command structure transferred to Joint Special Operations Command. The units true nature and even numbers are unknown.

This May 17 Navy Times article would revise the official account of events, admitting to the crash incident:

Aboard two Black Hawk helicopters were 23 SEALs, an interpreter and a tracking dog named Cairo. Nineteen SEALs would enter the compound, and three of them would find bin Laden, one official said, providing the exact numbers for the first time.

Aboard the Chinooks were two dozen more SEALs, as backup.

[...] The plan unraveled as the first helicopter tried to hover over the compound. The Black Hawk skittered around uncontrollably in the heat-thinned air, forcing the pilot to land. As he did, the tail and rotor got caught on one of the compounds 12-foot walls. The pilot quickly buried the aircrafts nose in the dirt to keep it from tipping over, and the SEALs clambered out into an outer courtyard.

[...] It took approximately 15 minutes to reach bin Laden, one official said. The next 23 or so were spent blowing up the broken chopper, after rounding up nine women and 18 children to get them out of range of the blast.

» Deaths of SEAL Team 6 Exposed Alex Jones&#039; Infowars: There&#039;s a war on for your mind!

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## Creder

*They are saying on CNN these seals were part of the same team that took out OBL*

sorry if posted already


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## CardSharp

Creder said:


> *They are saying on CNN these seals were part of the same team that took out OBL*
> 
> sorry if posted already


 
It wasn't. Appreciate the update.


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## Saifullah Sani

By Kevin Sieff and Greg Jaffe, Published: August 6

KABUL  A NATO helicopter was shot down during an overnight operation against the Taliban in eastern Afghanistan, killing 30 U.S. service members, including about 20 SEALs from the elite SEAL Team 6 counterrorism unit that carried out the mission to kill Osama bin Laden, the coalition said.

The crash, which was the deadliest incident for the coalition in the nearly 10-year-old war, also killed seven Afghan commandos and a civilian interpreter, NATO said, adding that an investigation was underway.

A U.S. official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter said the aircraft was most likely brought down by a rocket-propelled grenade. The Taliban asserted responsibility for the crash, which occurred in Wardak province, just west of the capital, Kabul.

American and Afghan officials said that the Chinook aircraft had been operating in an area of heavy insurgent activity. A senior U.S. official said that none of the 20 SEALs who died in the crash had participated in the May raid to kill bin Laden, adding that the downed Chinook was piloted by a regular Army crew.

The official said that the loss of the SEALs, while tragic, would not have a major impact on U.S. counterterrorism operations.

Anytime you lose SEALs it has a tactical impact, but there will be no strategic change, the official said. Nothing has changed in our ability to hunt down and kill the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

SEAL Team 6, known formally as the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, consists of about 250 to 300 operators. A former U.S. official who has worked closely with Special Operations forces said the losses would hurt more on an emotional than an operational level. The bigger worry voiced by senior U.S. officials was the impact of the loss on the American publics psyche and support for the increasingly unpopular conflict.

Saturdays crash comes during a surge of violence across large swaths of Afghanistan, particularly in the east, which has become a flash point in the conflict as American troops prepare for a phased withdrawal from the country. The incident threatened to shake confidence in NATOs air power  a key asset in the war and a important element of combat support offered to Afghans, who lack an air force of their own.

Residents of Sayedabad district in Wardak who were awake for an early morning Ramadan prayer reported hearing a rocket-propelled grenade being fired and then a loud explosion. Flames lit the night sky, they said.

Then American forces began searching houses and blocked the roads of the village, said Sana Gal, 35, a resident of Tangi, a village a few hundred yards from the crash site.

A Taliban spokesman, Zabiullah Mujahid, said an insurgent shot down the helicopter with a rocket-propelled grenade after the conclusion of a firefight in which eight Taliban fighters were killed.

The U.S. official who described the downing of the helicopter concurred with that account, saying the aircraft had been on a mission to kill or capture two high-level insurgents known for organizing devastating roadside bomb attacks on American convoys along the volatile road south of Kabul called Highway One. They arrived in the Tangi Valley, in a remote part of Wardak province, about 2 a.m. on Saturday, following a months-long intelligence-gathering effort.
Just as the helicopter hovered near the target location, an insurgent fired what the official said was likely a rocket-propelled grenade at the Chinook, which went down, killing all of the passengers.

Troops from a second helicopter managed to land safely in the rural location, engaging the insurgents in a firefight, killing about eight of them, the official said. The men then secured the site, letting the wreckage burn, attempting to recover the bodies of the Americans and the Afghans, as well as the remnants of the Chinook. Several hours later, they left the scene, the charred Chinook slung below the undamaged helicopter as it flew away. 

Deadly helicopter crashes have not been especially common in Afghanistan, but despite their infrequency, they constitute some of the bloodiest incidents in the wars history. Before Saturdays crash, 96 coalition troops had been killed in eight separate crashes since 2005  products of both mechanical problems and insurgent attacks.

Chinook helicopters are vulnerable to attack from rocket-propelled grenades and heavy machine guns when taking off and landing, particularly in mountainous terrain, because they are big targets that fly low to the ground. In the most dangerous areas, the U.S. military will typically fly Chinooks only at night and only when there is little or no illumination from the moon. This has long been true in restive and mountainous areas throughout eastern Afghanistan and has at times made it challenging to resupply units.

The Chinooks have not been the only U.S. helicopters involved in fatal crashes in Afghanistan. In one of the deadliest incidents in recent years, a Black Hawk helicopter crashed in Zabul province last September, killing nine American service members.

The deadliest helicopter crash involving U.S. Special Forces in Afghanistan occurred in June 2005, when insurgents shot down a Chinook in Konar province, near the Korengal Valley. Sixteen U.S. 16 troops, most of them Army Rangers, died. The Rangers were flying into the valley to rescue a small team of Navy SEALs that had come under fire.

That incident led U.S. forces to set up outposts in the Korengal, a remote valley that was a hotbed of insurgent activity. From 2006 to 2010 the valley was one of the most violent spots in Afghanistan for U.S. troops; more than 50 Americans were killed there. In the spring of 2010, Americans pulled out of the valley.

The remote Tangi Valley, which sits near the border between Wardak and Logar provinces, has long been a problem area for U.S. troops and the Afghan government. U.S. forces had for years kept a small presence in those provinces, but in 2009 surged troops into the area.

The insurgency in Wardak and Logar is generally thought to be affiliated with the Haqqani network.

U.S. forces had wanted to make Paktika and Khost provinces their main focus in the east this fighting season. But the increased violence in Wardak and Logar, and their proximity to Kabul, forced the Americans to change plans. Since then, Wardak and Logar have been the main focus of U.S. forces in the east.
Local Afghan officials were quick to point out Saturday that insurgent activity in the volatile Tangi Valley, where the latest helicopter crash occurred, has spiked in recent months, since some NATO troops withdrew from a remote base in the area.

The Americans left because they were getting casualties with each operation .&#8201;.&#8201;. and since then, the insurgents have increased their activity, said Shahidullah Shahid, a spokesman for the Wardak governor.

All foreign combat forces are due to leave Afghanistan by the end of 2014, and some withdrawals have already begun, coinciding with the launch of a security transition in seven largely peaceful cities and provinces. But while Afghan forces have assumed formal control of those areas, some of the countrys more volatile regions have shown little sign of progress, leaving many Afghans and Americans wary of the prospects for the wars endgame.

The crash Saturday brings the total number of foreign troops killed in Afghanistan in 2011 to 374, according to the icasualties.org Web site. Two-thirds of them have been American, including 28 Special Forces soldiers.

In a statement, President Obama expressed his condolences to the families and loved ones of those who were killed, saying their deaths were a reminder of the extraordinary sacrifices made by the men and women of our military and their families, including all who have served in Afghanistan.

We will draw inspiration from their lives, and continue the work of securing our country and standing up for the values that they embodied, he said. We also mourn the Afghans who died alongside our troops in pursuit of a more peaceful and hopeful future for their country.

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta also issued a statement, saying he was deeply saddened by the loss of many outstanding Americans in uniform and of their Afghan counterparts. Their courage, he said, was exemplary.

Afghan President Hamid Karzais office said in a statement, The president of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan has expressed his condolences to the U.S. President Barack Obama and to the families of the victims.

Jaffe reported from Washington. Special correspondents Sayed Salahuddin and Javed Hamdard in Kabul and staff writer Jason Ukman and staff researcher Julie Tate in Washington contributed to this report.
20 Navy SEALs among 30 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan as NATO helicopter is shot down - The Washington Post


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## AAtish

RIP to the 7 humans, and 31 Americans..


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## Pashtun Khan

lol What a joke, 
* 20 SEALs from the elite SEAL Team 6 counterrorism unit that carried out the mission to kill Osama bin Laden*

lol Wow, Talibans must to happy about this
SEALs are higly trained people.


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## VelocuR

http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/123558-deaths-seal-team-6-exposed.html#post2002207

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## PteX

Pashtun Khan said:


> lol What a joke,
> * 20 SEALs from the elite SEAL Team 6 counterrorism unit that carried out the mission to kill Osama bin Laden*
> 
> lol Wow, Talibans must to happy about this
> SEALs are higly trained people.



Yeah, it`s always hilarious to hear brave men lose their lives by terrorists.
No matter how trained you are, you explode like and die like everyone else when hit by a RPG.


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## Chinese-Dragon

RIP to the dead.


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## Dil Pakistan

anon45 said:


> None of those who participated in the Bin Laden raid were on the flight...
> 
> RIP to the dead, vengeance on the Taliban.


 
It is now confirmed from american source that some (about 20 out of 31) of the dead were those who participated in osama raid


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## JonAsad

i see a cover up-
the seals that took part in abotabad raid are dead now- now one left to ever speak the truth- or talk about it-
what was it that amrika tried to suppress that it even killed its own best professionals so no body could ever talk?-

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## Imran Khan

JonAsad said:


> i see a cover up-
> the seals that took part in abotabad raid are dead now- now one left to ever speak the truth- or talk about it-
> what was it that amrika tried to suppress that it even killed its own best professionals so no body could ever talk?-


 
*you got it dude congs when i watch the thread title i think same as you 100% CIA done it again group gone to god and left few top bross which are elite CIA and obama administration .cong USA now usama chapter no one can open .*

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## Roybot

JonAsad said:


> i see a cover up-
> *the seals that took part in abotabad raid are dead now- now one left to ever speak the truth- or talk about it-*
> what was it that amrika tried to suppress that it even killed its own best professionals so no body could ever talk?-


 
Do you have some inside information which says that?



> _* A senior U.S. official said that none of the 20 SEALs who died in the crash had participated in the May raid to kill bin Laden, adding that the downed Chinook was piloted by a regular Army crew.*_


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## Bas_tum_Pak

Its all planned , CIA making tricks to close the Chapter of Bin Laden. 
20 of them were involved in operation against Bin Laden.


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## AAtish

Dil Pakistan said:


> It is now confirmed from american source that some (about 20 out of 31) of the dead were those who participated in osama raid


 
Typical Government cover up! poor chaps.. did their job and got killed by their own masters!

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## sur

penumbra said:


> Calm down or you might get banned soon.


 
*Most welcome ...*


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## soul hacker

DO YOU PEOPLE THINK THAT IT MAY BE INSIDE JOB.well i think so


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## JonAsad

> similarly, if news posted above is true that these 31 who died took part in so-called OBL raid, & since that was a staged-play so all those who had inside knowledge had to be "eliminated",



Great- 

Pakistan Zindabad-


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## sur

RaptorRX707 said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/123558-deaths-seal-team-6-exposed.html#post2002207


I am re-posting* Bangla-Fighter*'s post here as this is very important ...
-
-


Bangla fighter said:


> Associated Press sources are reporting a statistically impossible tragedy for U.S. forces in Afghanistan that of the 38 NATO forces killed in a helicopter crash Friday night, more than 20&#8243; were members of SEAL Team 6, the covert unit that took credit for killing Osama bin Laden in May.
> 
> Mainstream sources are seizing upon claims that the Taliban took credit for downing the helicopter, but that means nothing. Media instantly ran reports that al Qaeda was responsible for the bombing & shootings in Norway; moreover, anyone on a message board can make such claims.
> 
> Instead, Alex Jones predicted shortly after the raid on bin Ladens compound that SEALs would soon be reported dead in a helicopter crash or staged incident following multiple reports from military sources whove proved accurate in the past, including on-air callers, that SEALs did indeed die during the raid. Official stories admitted after-the-fact that a helicopter went down during the mission, but claimed there were no deaths of U.S. forces.
> 
> Below is Alexs report on the breaking news of SEAL Team 6&#8242;s official demise:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infowars is on the record reporting that members of Seal Team 6 died in the so called OBL raid. The government admits that a super secret helicopter did crash during the OBL raid but says no one died, our intel is different. We predicted that the spin doctors would stage a crash or when a real crash took place that they would say the SEALs died then. This is a old trick that governments all over the world have been caught pulling in the past. Some speculate that Obama had the team killed to cover up what really happened; however our intel does not point that way. The Pentagon may have blown the helicopter up on the ground on the night of the raid and we cover that in the above video. Lastly the globalist MSM is reporting that terrorist have taken credit but that is notoriously filled with disinfo, like in the Norway attack when a fake terrorist group took credit and the media ran with it.
> 
> According to the sources, military personnel internally admit to the SEAL deaths, however it was not clear whether it had been the result of an accidental crash, from a firefight with Pakistani military forces stationed only a short distance from the compound, or whether, as Pakistani eyewitnesses indicated (below), the helicopter exploded after covert forces entered.
> 
> Whatever the true story, one thing is clear: dead men tell no tales. The inconvenient truth is that governments throughout history have disposed of heroes, covert troops and special forces to keep the real story from coming out. Helicopter and plane crashes have been one of the favorite methods for tying up these loose ends.
> 
> Abbottabad residents told CCTV reporters they dont believe Osama bin Laden was ever at this compund and that the operation was a hoax. Pakistans anti-terrorist squad also could not confirm the killing, according to reports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani eyewitnesses to the Abbottabad raid on Osamas reputed compound reported that a U.S. helicopter exploded and that Americans died, despite the fact that mainstream media reports claimed no one died in the raid. The crash was reported but remains little explained.
> 
> As Dr. Paul Craig Roberts presciently dredged up again only yesterday:
> 
> In the immediate aftermath of bin Ladens alleged murder by the SEALs, Pakistani TV interviewed the next door neighbor to bin Ladens alleged compound. Someone supplied the video with an English translation running at the bottom of the video. According to the translation, the next door neighbor, Mr. Bashir, said that he watched the entire operation from the roof of his house. There were 3 helicopters. Only 1 landed. About a dozen men got out and entered the house. They shortly returned and boarded the helicopter. When the helicopter lifted off it exploded, killing all aboard. Mr. Bashir reports seeing bodies and pieces of bodies all over.
> 
> The US government acknowledges that it lost a helicopter, but claims no one was hurt. Obviously, as there were no further landings, if everyone was killed as Mr. Bashir reports, there was no body to be dumped into the ocean.
> 
> SEAL Team 6 was formally dissolved in 1987, becoming the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, with its command structure transferred to Joint Special Operations Command. The units true nature and even numbers are unknown.
> 
> This May 17 Navy Times article would revise the official account of events, admitting to the crash incident:
> 
> Aboard two Black Hawk helicopters were 23 SEALs, an interpreter and a tracking dog named Cairo. Nineteen SEALs would enter the compound, and three of them would find bin Laden, one official said, providing the exact numbers for the first time.
> 
> Aboard the Chinooks were two dozen more SEALs, as backup.
> 
> [...] The plan unraveled as the first helicopter tried to hover over the compound. The Black Hawk skittered around uncontrollably in the heat-thinned air, forcing the pilot to land. As he did, the tail and rotor got caught on one of the compounds 12-foot walls. The pilot quickly buried the aircrafts nose in the dirt to keep it from tipping over, and the SEALs clambered out into an outer courtyard.
> 
> [...] It took approximately 15 minutes to reach bin Laden, one official said. The next 23 or so were spent blowing up the broken chopper, after rounding up nine women and 18 children to get them out of range of the blast.
> 
> » Deaths of SEAL Team 6 Exposed Alex Jones&#039; Infowars: There&#039;s a war on for your mind!

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## Roybot

Dil Pakistan said:


> It is now confirmed from american source that some (about 20 out of 31) of the dead were those who participated in osama raid


 
What source?


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## razgriz19



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## HongWu

What great news! The Pashtuns are truly a great warrior race. I hope China gives more and more weapons to them like surface-to-air missiles, anti-tank missiles and mines!

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## IndoCarib

HongWu said:


> What great news! The Pashtuns are truly a great warrior race. I hope China gives more and more weapons to them like surface-to-air missiles, anti-tank missiles and mines!


 
Chinese govt is much more smarter than you ! Thank god for that !


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## jdme

Conspiracy theory says that these people are now in hiding. Too much of coincidence. I mean it is not like Taliban is taking down Chinook every month or so.


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## jdme

HongWu said:


> What great news! The Pashtuns are truly a great warrior race. I hope China gives more and more weapons to them like surface-to-air missiles, anti-tank missiles and mines!




As long as it's not Made in China!


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## JonAsad

Amrika killed OBL-
and Taliban killed the whole seal 6 team which took part in OBL raid-

who won?-


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## jdme

America still did..AQ is virtually wiped out..


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## Awesome

I'm interested to know if these 20 seals were the exact same guys who took out Osama Bin Laden?


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## JonAsad

Asim Aquil said:


> I'm interested to know if these 20 seals were the exact same guys who took out Osama Bin Laden?


 
5-6 of the 20 were the ones that died in the helicopter crash during the raid-


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## VCheng

Asim Aquil said:


> I'm interested to know if these 20 seals were the exact same guys who took out Osama Bin Laden?



What if they are?


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## Mosamania

This sure will be a great boost in the Morale of the Taliban. And to make matters worse for the US all the Talibanis are going to say the ones who died are the same exact ones who killed Bin Laden and that they died by some sort of Godly Miracle. 

If anything this incident may just be the thing that makes it impossible for the US to pull out any time soon. And if they do it will be branded another Vietnam something the US is very very not in favor of.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*USA should do more*

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## Awesome

VCheng said:


> What if they are?


 
Could be a silencing move... Self-goal of sorts.

Reminiscent of Zia's murder. 8% of the Team 6 elite force taken out in one shot... Questions have to be asked. Given that people hardly were satisfied with the details of Osama's killing and wanted more info and these chaps were the ones who knew exactly what happened.

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## Awesome

US choppers haven't been shot down by RPG in 10 years in Afghanistan and suddenly two Chinooks in two weeks?


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## Awesome

JonAsad said:


> 5-6 of the 20 were the ones that died in the helicopter crash during the raid-


 
What's your source?


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## VCheng

Asim Aquil said:


> Could be a silencing move... Self-goal of sorts.
> 
> Reminiscent of Zia's murder. 8% of the Team 6 elite force taken out in one shot... Questions have to be asked. Given that people hardly were satisfied with the details of Osama's killing and wanted more info and these chaps were the ones who knew exactly what happened.


 
Or is it to ensure that the SEALs are not traceable as they retire?


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## saleen_s7

Hmm. Well, Obama has set out an exit strategy. This recent attacks clearly prove that Taliban is still alive and doing well. Any blowbacks caused by withdrawing from Afghanistan would be blamed on America and leaving on the midst of accomplishing a mission will cause more trouble later on.


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## Awesome

VCheng said:


> Or is it to ensure that the SEALs are not traceable as they retire?


 
Also possible, but you just don't expect such kindness from the US, plus they would be taking on a hell of a PR mess burden if one of these guys speaks up from retirement. The US's no. 1 would be to secure itself not the soldier.


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## jdme

Why does this thread have bunch of stars on it? Because Americans got killed? Something to "celebrate" on pakdef?


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## Awesome

jdme said:


> Why does this thread have bunch of stars on it? Because Americans got killed? Something to "celebrate" on pakdef?


 
Where are you seeing stars? 

There is pretty much indifference, according to us this war is now being continued by the US and the US alone. There can be sympathy for the soldier, but not the US government who needs to be given some flak for these lives lost. 30 Dead? We've lost, 30,000.

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## gambit

jdme said:


> Why does this thread have bunch of stars on it? *Because Americans got killed?* Something to "celebrate" on pakdef?


Yes. I get a kick out of reading these loony conspiracy theories as much as reading on how people who can barely balance their checkbooks, still living in an apartment or with their parents, still going to school, never had a real job, but are so adamant about global economics in general and US in particular. Somehow the failed history of predictions about the collapse of America does not faze them one bit.


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## Awesome

gambit said:


> Yes. I get a kick out of reading these loony conspiracy theories as much as reading on how people who can barely balance their checkbooks, still living in an apartment or with their parents, still going to school, never had a real job, but are so adamant about global economics in general and US in particular. Somehow the failed history of predictions about the collapse of America does not faze them one bit.


 
Perhaps its time to be nicer people then for a change...

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## jdme

Asim Aquil said:


> Perhaps its time to be nicer people then for a change...


 
To terrorists or terrorist sympathizers?


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## gambit

Asim Aquil said:


> Perhaps its time to be nicer people then for a change...


Are you saying that America is not 'nice'? Which country is the most generous in terms of charity?


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## Awesome



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## PWFI

gambit said:


> Are you saying that America is not 'nice'? Which country is the most generous in terms of charity?


 
Sir giving money to attend strategic objectif is not charity !


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## harpoon

VCheng said:


> Or is it to ensure that the SEALs are not traceable as they retire?


 
There is a possibility for this scenario.I heard that most of the members of the Mossad hit squad who took part in Operation Wrath of God is now 'dead'.


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## below_freezing

RIP soldiers. You were used as the mercenaries of a mafia regime, and they played you like chess pawns. The mafia regime does not care about your lives, only about the Godfathers strategic interest.

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## SpArK

RIP , the dead.


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## pmukherjee

Rest in Peace brave soldiers. Condolences to the bereaved families.


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## notsuperstitious

RIP the dead! They died in the line of duty, but they played their part in ensuring there have been no more terrorist attacks in their motherland and the war is now limited to countries local / complicit in terrorism.



below_freezing said:


> RIP soldiers. You were used as the mercenaries of a mafia regime, and they played you like chess pawns. The mafia regime does not care about your lives, only about the Godfathers strategic interest.


 
Get well soon!


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## FreekiN

REST IN PEACE. 

AND NEVER FORGET.


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## gambit

PWFI said:


> Sir giving money to attend strategic objectif is not charity !


What strategic objectives were there when we gave aid to natural disaster victims?


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## gambit

below_freezing said:


> RIP soldiers. You were used as the mercenaries of a mafia regime, and they played you like chess pawns. The mafia regime does not care about your lives, only about the Godfathers strategic interest.


We are nowhere as much a 'mafia' a regime as the thugocracy in China.

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## siegecrossbow

Rest in peace soldiers...


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## A1Kaid

Requiescat in Pace


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## harpoon

below_freezing said:


> RIP soldiers. You were used as the mercenaries of a mafia regime, and they played you like chess pawns. The mafia regime does not care about your lives, only about the Godfathers strategic interest.


 
War is the pursuit of foreign policy by other means.


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## below_freezing

gambit said:


> We are nowhere as much a 'mafia' a regime as the thugocracy in China.


 
Please stay on topic. The topic at hand is how hired mercenaries of the US regime were betrayed by their employers who failed to protect them from freedom fighters.


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## A1Kaid

harpoon said:


> War is the pursuit of foreign policy by other means.


 

Not necessarily. What about civil wars? They are not about pursuit of foreign policy but domestic and/or national policy or control.


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## gambit

below_freezing said:


> Please stay on topic. The topic at hand is how hired mercenaries of the US regime were betrayed by their employers who failed to protect them from freedom fighters.


There is your problem. Mercs are supposed to protect themselves. I guess this lack of understanding due to your being a conscript reject mean that if there is a conflict between American mercs and Chinese mercs, the American mercs will RIP the Chinese mercs all to hell.


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## WAQAS119

Navy seals that got Bin Ladin??????????? So now even people with first hand experience and knowledge of the situation are also dead?


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## Luftwaffe

Reminds me where the heck is raymond. 

Negotiations with taliban for face saving exit aren't fruitful. 

The striking fact is the locals who are eye witness to the Ops in Abbotabad the guy tells 3 choppers of which 2 never landed and went oposite directions and never came back and last one came in with 10-12 people make it a few more and was downed or destroyed. So the question is where are those Navy SEALS and OBL...how the hell did they end up in afghanistan alive. Wait someone will come up with conspiracy theory over here that the guy who gave interview is ISI agent trying to confuse situation.

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## harpoon

WAQAS119 said:


> Navy seals that got Bin Ladin??????????? So now even people with first hand experience and knowledge of the situation are also dead?


 
Or are they? My conspiracy senses are tingling.


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## gambit

harpoon said:


> Or are they? My conspiracy senses are tingling.


Loony 9/11 conspiracy theories are dead. Guess inquiring minds needs something new...

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## salmakh84

Good news. I dont know why people are said when terrorising occupational forces are dead?


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## Safriz

WAQAS119 said:


> Navy seals that got Bin Ladin??????????? So now even people with first hand experience and knowledge of the situation are also dead?


 
now they have changed statement.
on ITV they are saying " 22 navy seals were killed in the invident. some of them were part of the legendary navy seal 6 team that killed obl....none of them is thought to have took part in the obl operation"

now thats what i call ...creating confusion.
and for dog lovers.there was one dog onboard too.


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## harpoon

gambit said:


> *Loony 9/11 conspiracy theories are dead*. Guess inquiring minds needs something new...


 
You wish!! It is as strong as it was 10 years ago.


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## WAQAS119

@Harpoon and a yank: A valid question raised (not conspiracy). Needs reply by a sane person. Labeling everything as a conspiracy is an old trick to hush up things. Not effective anymore.


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## President Camacho

The Seals were mere part of team 6. 

A different part of team 6 carried out the OBL operation. 

The Seals that carried OBL operation are supposed to be deployed elsewhere now.

All those still believing the dead are the same Seals who carried OBL attacks, please put your head to use and read some news.

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## Safriz

WAQAS119 said:


> @Harpoon and a yank: A valid question raised (not conspiracy). Needs reply by a sane person. Labeling everything as a conspiracy is an old trick to hush up things. Not effective anymore.


 
yank is not a good word i guess..
we should treat fellow members with respect....
there can be difference of opinion but that doesnt mean we resort to calling names to each other.


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## Safriz

President Camacho said:


> The Seals were mere part of team 6.
> 
> A different part of team 6 carried out the OBL operation.
> 
> The Seals that carried OBL operation are supposed to be deployed elsewhere now.
> 
> All those still believing the dead are the same Seals who carried OBL attacks, please put your head to use and read some news.


 
looking at the fact that our own armed forcesc are fighting same or similar enemy...its scary that they can down a military helicopter at night with such a crude weapon.


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## gambit

harpoon said:


> You wish!! It is as strong as it was 10 years ago.


Those loony 9/11 conspiracy theories are 'strong' only in the (dwindling) community of believers. Know why Jesse Ventura got into that camp? Not because he believes in them but he can smell $$$ opportunities just like any seasoned entrepreneurs and capitalists. Spin the same tales but using different words and phrases and you got a sale. Heck, I may just do that. I would like to pay off my mortgage a few years early.


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## DarK-LorD

America is ready to take casualties in this just war against terror.Ultimately US will emerge victorious.


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## gambit

President Camacho said:


> The Seals were mere part of team 6.
> 
> A different part of team 6 carried out the OBL operation.
> 
> The Seals that carried OBL operation are supposed to be deployed elsewhere now.
> 
> All those still believing the dead are the same Seals who carried OBL attacks, *please put your head to use and read some news.*


Too much work. But it is deliciously ironic that the same crowd often accuses US of being too lazy and too brainwashed by the Zionist controlled media to read other news sources.


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## Ahmad

rollindays said:


> The Afghan fighters & the Afghan government is futile, as they pretty much just follow the orders of the US & the international forces, & have no credibility or legitimacy in the eyes of the Afghan people. This is death in the call of duty, losses are anticipated & part of everything, & people have to accept that before taking on missions like these.


 
how much credibility and legitimacy your gov have? they are the same and following american orders. bring pakistani taliban as they have more legitimacy.


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## President Camacho

safriz said:


> looking at the fact that our own armed forcesc are fighting same or similar enemy...its scary that they can down a military helicopter at night with such a crude weapon.


 
Chinook is basically a transport helicopter... doesn't take too much to bring it down. 

What is really intriguing is where were these dozens of Seals heading to. 

The Seals, the Interpreter, the Dog, the Afghan Soldiers... a recipe for high target operation, nothing less.

Sounds more like an OBL type operation was underway and intel got leaked.


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## Safriz

gambit said:


> Too much work. But it is deliciously ironic that the same crowd often accuses US of being too lazy and too brainwashed by the Zionist controlled media to read other news sources.


 
i thought the thread isnt about 9\11

has chinook any armour? and what defences it has got against similar attacks?
do you think it was a lucky/unlucky shot or chinook has its vulnerabities?


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## harpoon

gambit said:


> Those loony 9/11 conspiracy theories are 'strong' only in the (dwindling) community of believers. Know why Jesse Ventura got into that camp? Not because he believes in them but he can smell $$$ opportunities just like any seasoned entrepreneurs and capitalists. Spin the same tales but using different words and phrases and you got a sale. Heck, I may just do that. I would like to pay off my mortgage a few years early.


 
What about the Islamic world. A considerable proportion of them still believes that 9/11 is a CIA/Mossad operation.


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## Ahmad

HongWu said:


> What great news! The Pashtuns are truly a great warrior race. I hope China gives more and more weapons to them like surface-to-air missiles, anti-tank missiles and mines!


 
Uighur fighters were/are trained and fighting side by side the taliban, long live the resistance of Uigher brothers against chinese agression and discrimination.

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## Safriz

Ahmad said:


> Uighur fighters were/are trained and fighting side by side the taliban, long live the resistance of Uigher brothers against chinese agression and discrimination.


 
mind you taliban are loyal to nobody..its a time tested fact.

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## grey boy 2

Ahmad said:


> Uighur fighters were/are trained and fighting side by side the taliban, long live the resistance of Uigher brothers against chinese agression and discrimination.



And be ready to crush like ants, we Chinese have no mercy on terrorist or their supporter like you.

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## Roybot

grey boy 2 said:


> And be ready to crush like ants, we Chinese have no mercy on terrorist or their supporter like you.


 
Did you not see the comment he was replying too?

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## Leader

I read in one of the news papers that the among the dead 25 Seals are those who did operation in Abbatabad ? is it so ?


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## Roybot

Leader said:


> I read in one of the news papers that the among the dead 25 Seals are those who did operation in Abbatabad ? is it so ?


 
Its not mentioned anywhere as far as I know, infact US military official has categorically denied such claims.



> *A senior U.S. official said that none of the 20 SEALs who died in the crash had participated in the May raid to kill bin Laden, adding that the downed Chinook was piloted by a regular Army crew.*


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## gambit

safriz said:


> i thought the thread isnt about 9\11


The conspiracy mentality is related.



safriz said:


> has chinook any armour? and what defences it has got against similar attacks?
> do you think *it was a lucky/unlucky shot* or chinook has its vulnerabities?


Yes.


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## gambit

harpoon said:


> What about the Islamic world. A considerable proportion of them still believes that 9/11 is a CIA/Mossad operation.


We sane people pretty much given up on the Islamic world about 9/11. We expect the muslims will believe anything negative about US, no matter how outlandish and illogical.


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## pak-marine

what was the weapon used ?


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## Night_Raven

RIP to the dead.

US will now go all out now IMO ... revenge is a dish best served HOT for them .... more bloodshed in coming days .....


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## Safriz

pak-marine said:


> what was the weapon used ?


 
RPG was used......at night....

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## Leader

pak-marine said:


> what was the weapon used ?


 
taliban hand made kitchen launcher....


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## Safriz

Night_Raven said:


> RIP to the dead.
> 
> US will now go all out now IMO ... revenge is a dish best served HOT for them .... more bloodshed in coming days .....


 
you cant defeat a man who has nothing to lose.
unfortunately the taliban fall under the same catagory..
a rething on war tactics may be needed..perhaps isolating them is the best option..
The soldiers were killed because they were there...if they werent there the taliban dont have to capability to come to USA and kill them..
dont start me on 9\11.....if america hasnt learned from it and its still possible for taliban to go USA and kill americans then shame on USA.


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## Leader

hmmmm...thats interesting....


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## StormShadow

Bangla fighter said:


> *According to the sources, military personnel internally admit to the SEAL deaths, however it was not clear whether it had been the result of an accidental crash, from a firefight with Pakistani military forces stationed only a short distance from the compound,* or whether, as Pakistani eyewitnesses indicated (below), the helicopter exploded after covert forces entered.
> » Deaths of SEAL Team 6 Exposed Alex Jones&#039; Infowars: There&#039;s a war on for your mind!


The bolded part is utter nonsense coz US had plans to attack Pakistan *IF* pakistan attacked the seals.

Osama bin Laden raid team was prepared to fight Pakistani forces | World news | The Guardian

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## WAQAS119

Alex Jones is not a Pakistani or any Islaminst. Few brainwashed magottous vile imbeciles bragging about conspiracy theorists and their religion, should cut out and watch this video.






http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/123558-deaths-seal-team-6-exposed.html


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## Safriz

that night when OBL was killed...the residents of abbottabad saw atleast three bodies being carried on stretchers from helicopter crash site.....
all three were carried by pakistani soldiers as i havent come across any eye witness who saw americans that night...but helicopter crash was witnessed by many...
so the obl operation reports are not transparent...


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## Sunny Malik94

i was reading in the news paper tht according to an indian TV channel 20 out of 25 seals were those who took part in OBL operation.... 
it says tht " The elimination of eyewitnesses of OBL's death has shaken the American credibility. Now doubts r being raised tht whtever the US Navy seals told world bout OBL's death was wht the US defence authorities wanted thn to say."


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## WAQAS119

Sunny Malik94 said:


> i was reading in the news paper tht according to an indian TV channel 20 out of 25 seals were those who took part in OBL operation....
> it says tht " The elimination of eyewitnesses of OBL's death has shaken the American credibility. Now doubts r being raised tht whtever the US Navy seals told world bout OBL's death was wht the US defence authorities wanted thn to say."


 
Should we call them HINDU bloody conspiracy theorists? A valid question raised needs sane answer rather than diversionary tactics.


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## MM_Haider

WAQAS119 said:


> Alex Jones is not a Pakistani or any Islaminst. Few brainwashed magottous vile imbeciles bragging about conspiracy theorists and their religion should cut out and watch this video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/123558-deaths-seal-team-6-exposed.html


 
Wow.. this guy is doing actual jihad..


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## below_freezing

gambit said:


> There is your problem. Mercs are supposed to protect themselves. I guess this lack of understanding due to your being a conscript reject mean that if there is a conflict between American mercs and Chinese mercs, the American mercs will RIP the Chinese mercs all to hell.


 
AmeriKKKa has Mercenaries. China has Soldiers. There is a fundamental difference between the 2. Mercenaries are those who take up arms for profit. Their employer should therefore, to make money such as oil, FOREX and mining rights in certain Islamic countries, do the most to prevent assets like helicopters and employees like those navy SEALs from being destroyed. The failure of the employer to do this means that shareholders (US taxpayers) should stop investing in a failing company, and take their money elsewhere.


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## Devil Soul

*US to 'stay the course' after Afghan chopper crash*
By Mathieu Rabechault | AFP  26 mins ago
The United States has vowed to "stay the course" in Afghanistan after 30 US soldiers were killed there when, according to local officials, the Taliban shot down their helicopter.
The pledge from US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta -- and a salute from President Barack Obama -- came Saturday, after the US troops, an interpreter and seven Afghan soldiers were killed during an anti-Taliban operation late Friday.
The strike was by far the worst to hit foreign troops since American and other international forces invaded Afghanistan to oust the Taliban in 2001 in the wake of the September 11 attacks.
*According to The Navy Times, 17 of those killed were Navy SEALs, a highly-trained special forces unit entrusted with some of the most difficult missions.
Most of them came from "Gold Squadron" of Naval Special Warfare Development Group sometimes referred to as "Team Six," the report said. It is the Navy?s equivalent to the Army?s "Delta Force."*
In May, "Team Six" carried out a raid on a Pakistani hideout of Osama bin Laden and killed the mastermind of the September 11, 2001, attacks.
But* sources in the Obama administration said the dead troops were "not part" of the team that killed bin Laden.*
*The Naval Special Warfare Development Group has four line squadrons -- "Blue," "Gold," "Red" and "Silver" -- plus a strategic reconnaissance element known as "Black Squadron," The Navy Times pointed out. The crash wiped out an entire troop in "Gold Squadron," it said.*
"Their courage was exemplary, as was their determination to make this a safer world for their countries and for their fellow citizens," Panetta in a statement.
"We will stay the course to complete that mission, for which they and all who have served and lost their lives in Afghanistan have made the ultimate sacrifice."
The Pentagon declined to comment on the cause of the crash but said it had opened an investigation into the incident. The top US military officer, Admiral Mike Mullen, warned against drawing hasty conclusions.
"Information is still coming in about this incident. I think it's important that we allow investigators to do their work before jumping to too many conclusions," Mullen said in a statement.
"We also need to make sure we remain committed to the mission. The fight goes on," said Mullen, who is chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff.
"The best way we can honor that sacrifice is to keep at it, keep fighting, keep moving forward."
Afghan officials said a rocket fired by Taliban insurgents struck a Chinook helicopter carrying the US and Afghan forces in Wardak province, southwest of the Afghan capital Kabul.
"The US chopper that crashed last night was shot down by the Taliban as it was taking off," said provincial spokesman Shahidullah Shahid. "A rocket fired by the insurgents hit it and completely destroyed it."
The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said Saturday that 30 ISAF service members -- all of them Americans -- one civilian interpreter and seven Afghan commandos were killed in the incident.
ISAF did not say anything about why the Chinook had crashed.
Obama said Saturday that the deaths of the US soldiers were "a reminder of the extraordinary sacrifices made by the men and women of our military and their families, including all who have served in Afghanistan."
"We will draw inspiration from their lives, and continue the work of securing our country and standing up for the values that they embodied," he said in a White House statement.
"We also mourn the Afghans who died alongside our troops in pursuit of a more peaceful and hopeful future for their country."


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## Devil Soul




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## asad71

Copter Downed by Taliban Fire; Elite U.S. Unit Among Dead
By RAY RIVERA, ALISSA J. RUBIN and THOM SHANKER
Published: August 6, 2011


This article is by Ray Rivera, Alissa J. Rubin and Thom Shanker.
Enlarge This Image

S. Sabawoon/European Pressphoto Agency
Afghan insurgents on Saturday said they had shot down a Chinook transport helicopter similar to the one seen loading troops in Kabul in 2004.
Related

Airstrike Reportedly Kills Civilians in Southern Afghanistan (August 7, 2011)

The New York Times
The attack in Wardak Province killed seven Afghans.
KABUL, Afghanistan &#8212; In the deadliest day for American forces in the nearly decade-long war in Afghanistan, insurgents shot down a Chinook transport helicopter on Saturday, killing 30 Americans, including some Navy Seal commandos from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden, as well as 8 Afghans, American and Afghan officials said.

The helicopter, on a night-raid mission in the Tangi Valley of Wardak Province, to the west of Kabul, was most likely brought down by a rocket-propelled grenade, one coalition official said.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack, and they could hardly have found a more valuable target: American officials said that 22 of the dead were Navy Seal commandos, including members of Seal Team 6. Other commandos from that team conducted the raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, that killed Bin Laden in May. The officials said that those who were killed Saturday were not involved in the Pakistan mission.

Saturday&#8217;s attack came during a surge of violence that has accompanied the beginning of a drawdown of American and NATO troops, and it showed how deeply entrenched the insurgency remains even far from its main strongholds in southern Afghanistan and along the Afghan-Pakistani border in the east. American soldiers had recently turned over the sole combat outpost in the Tangi Valley to Afghans.

Gen. Abdul Qayum Baqizoy, the police chief of Wardak, said the attack occurred around 1 a.m. Saturday after an assault on a Taliban compound in the village of Jaw-e-Mekh Zareen in the Tangi Valley. The fighting lasted at least two hours, the general said.

A spokesman for the Taliban, Zabiullah Mujahid, confirmed that insurgents had been gathering at the compound, adding that eight of them had been killed in the fighting.

President Obama offered his condolences to the families of the Americans and Afghans who died in the attack. &#8220;Their death is a re-minder of the extraordinary sacrifice made by the men and women of our military and their families,&#8221; Mr. Obama said. President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan also offered his sympathies.

Gen. John R. Allen, the commander of the international military mission in Afghanistan, said: &#8220;All of those killed in this operation were true heroes who had already given so much in the defense of freedom. Their sacrifice will not be forgotten.&#8221;

The Tangi Valley traverses the border between Wardak and Logar Province, an area where security has worsened over the past two years, bringing the insurgency closer to the capital, Kabul. It is one of several inaccessible areas that have become havens for insurgents, according to operations and intelligence officers with the Fourth Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division, which patrols the area. The mountainous region, with its steeply pitched hillsides and arid shale, laced by small footpaths and byways, has long been an area that the Taliban have used to move between Logar and Wardak, local officials said.

Officers at a forward operating base near the valley described Tangi as one of the most troubled areas in Logar and Wardak Provinces. &#8220;There&#8217;s a lot happening in Tangi,&#8221; said Capt. Kirstin Massey, 31, the assistant intelligence officer for Fourth Brigade Combat Team in an interview last week. &#8220;It&#8217;s a stronghold for the Taliban.&#8221;

The fighters are entirely Afghans and almost all local residents, Captain Massey said, noting that &#8220;We don&#8217;t capture any fighters who are non-Afghans.&#8221;

The redoubts in these areas pose the kind of problems the military faced last year in similarly remote areas of Kunar Province, forcing commanders to weigh the mission&#8217;s value given the cost in soldiers&#8217; lives and dollars spent in places where the vast majority of the insurgents are local residents who resent both the NATO presence and the Afghan government.

The dilemma is that if NATO military forces do not stay, the areas often quickly slip back under Taliban influence, if not outright control, and the Afghan National Security Forces do not have the ability yet to rout them.

When the Fourth Brigade Combat Team handed over its only combat outpost in the Tangi Valley to Afghan security forces in April, the American commander for the area said that as troops began to withdraw, he wanted to focus his forces on troubled areas that had larger populations. But he pledged that coalition forces would continue to carry out raids there to stem insurgent activity.

&#8220;As we lose U.S. personnel, we have to concentrate on the greater populations,&#8221; said Lt. Col. Thomas S. Rickard, the commander of 10th Mountain Division&#8217;s Task Force Warrior, which has responsibility for the area that includes Tangi. &#8220;We are going to continue to hunt insurgents in Tangi and prevent them from having a safe haven.&#8221;

Within days of the transition, the Taliban raised their flag near the outpost, said a NATO official familiar with the situation. Afghan security forces remained in the area but were no match for the Taliban, the official said.

Local officials in Wardak said that residents of the Tangi Valley disliked the fighting in the area, and that though they had fallen under the Taliban&#8217;s sway, the residents were not willing allies.

&#8220;They do not like having military in that area &#8212; no matter whether they are Taliban or foreigners,&#8221; said Hajji Mohammad Hazrat Janan, the chairman of the Wardak provincial council. &#8220;When an operation takes place in their village,&#8221; he said, &#8220;their sleep gets disrupted by the noise of helicopters and by their military operation. And also they don&#8217;t like the Taliban, because when they attack, then they go and seek cover in their village, and they are threatened by the Taliban.&#8221;

However, when local residents are hurt by the NATO soldiers, then, he said, they are willing to help the insurgents.

This was the second helicopter to be shot down by insurgents in the past two weeks. On July 25, a Chinook was shot down in Kunar Province, injuring two people on board. Of 15 crashes or forced landings this year, those two were the only confirmed cases where hostile fire was involved.

Before Saturday, the biggest single-day loss of life for the American military in Afghanistan came on June 28, 2005, during an operation in Kunar Province when a Chinook helicopter carrying Special Operations troops was shot down as it tried to provide reinforcements to forces trapped in heavy fighting. Sixteen members of a Special Operations unit were killed in the crash, and three more were killed in fighting on the ground.

Although the number of civilian deaths in Afghanistan has steadily risen in the past year, with a 15 percent increase in the first half of 2011 over the same period last year, NATO deaths had been declining &#8212; decreasing nearly 20 percent in the first six months of 2011 compared with 2010.


Ray Rivera and Alissa J. Rubin reported from Kabul, and Thom Shanker from Washington. Jack Healy, Abdul Waheed Wafa and Sharifullah Sahak contributed reporting from Kabul.
A version of this article appeared in print on August 7, 2011, on page A1


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## asad71

1. Bush invaded Afghanistan, a poor and weak state, just to keep himself in power. Didn't he know the consequences? Of course he did. But that exactly was his (or of those who controlled him) objective. Death and destruction - which they convert to profit.

2. The Soviets had made a clean break. It was well organised, and they didn't suffer in the withdrawal phase. But these Americans are again proving their professional incompetence. They had been relying 100% on the security money they had been paying to the tribal Maliks. That isn't working anymore. They had thought they could strike some kind of bargain with Mulla Omar. But the Mulla will not talk to the invader. In the south Americans don't exist. Afghans are now killing them in the north. This is becoming another fall of Saigon with VC shooting at the last chopper. 

3. Will the Americans survive another 3 or 4 months when the traditional Afghan season of fighting ends?


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## nomi007

great shot by Taliban
but 1 thing makes all doubtful that why all seal team member are flying together 
now all clues has been removed of usama death


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## asad71

RAZA SAHI said:


> MOST LIKELY IT'S WARDAK, TALIBAN HAVE A GOOD PRESENCE IN THAT PROVINCE. I WAS READING A BOOK THE OTHER DAY BY THE SAME JOURNALIST WHO WROTE *A MILLION BULLETS*. HE HAD TRAVELD TO WARDAK FOR HIS BOOK & CONDUCTED THE INTERVIEWS WITH TALIBAN LEADERSHIP THERE, HE NOTED THAT THE TALIBAN WERE QUITE SURE IN THEIR CLAIMS THAT THEY WILL SOON GET THE CAPABILITY TO BRING DOWN THE CHOPPERS.


 Isn't that Shabbir Sharif? Your avatar, I mean.


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## President Camacho

^^ Do you realize that you are posting an article from the website named after the guy who thinks George Bush and Laura Bush are in fact alien lizards that came to tame the human race on our beloved planet Earth?

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## SpArK

^^^^^^

Osama- Curse of the Shriek.


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## WAQAS119

President Camacho said:


> ^^ Do you realize that you are posting an article from the website named after the guy who thinks George Bush and Laura Bush are in fact alien lizards that came to tame the human race?


 
?????????????????????????? link? Is he a Pakistani or a Muslim? As few claimed only Pakistanis and Muslims are conspiracy theorists?


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## President Camacho

WAQAS119 said:


> ?????????????????????????? link?


 

omg you post a link from david icke's website and you don't even know about him???? 

as a punishment - no links for you 


George Bush with Laura Bush posing for White House portrait:

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## SpArK

WAQAS119 said:


> ?????????????????????????? link? Is he a Pakistani or a Muslim? As few claimed only Pakistanis and Muslims are conspiracy theorists?


 
7 Craziest Conspiracy Theories - Oddee.com (conspiracies, conspiracy theories)

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

jdme said:


> America still did..AQ is virtually wiped out..


 
Pakistan has neutralized more of the high and mid level AQ leadership that any other country in the world, as US officials themselves have admitted.

Most of the AQ members Pakistan neutralized were actually involved in actively planning and perpetrating attacks, unlike OBL.

Just to make a point ...


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## WAQAS119

fateh71 said:


> You are too excited at the death of the kaffirs, cool down. That crappy atricle that happily mentions Indian news channel is only appearing in third rate Pakistani publications known for publishing opinions as news, so if that makes it a Hindu conspiracy theory, then yes, it is.


 
I should have mentioned, "sane person" with "sane answer" in my post to avoid trouble answering you. And it is you to cool down if i used word 'HINDU CONSPIRACY THEORISTS". I am not expecting any Indian to rate any Pakistan news agency as top rated. I have not seen or read that article or news but indians news agencies have rich history of spewing bullshit although I don't think if that particular article was a bullshit.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

gambit said:


> We expect the muslims will believe anything negative about US, no matter how outlandish and illogical.


 
The propaganda machine in the West, against the PA and ISI, has replicated similar sentiment in the case of Americans against the PA/ISI ....

You can't really complain about 'outlandish and illogical anti-US Establishment sentiment in the Muslim world', when 'outlandish and anti-Pakistan Establishment sentiment' permeates American society.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

safriz said:


> RPG was used......at night....


 
In case it has not been pointed out yet, the PA has also suffered chopper and troop losses from occasional 'lucky' RPG hits and AA Guns.

I don't really see this particular incident as that 'unusual'.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

StormShadow said:


> The bolded part is utter nonsense coz US had plans to attack Pakistan *IF* pakistan attacked the seals.
> 
> Osama bin Laden raid team was prepared to fight Pakistani forces | World news | The Guardian


 
Just because they claim they would do it does not actually mean they would do it.

The reaction would depend on the situation - willingness to start a war over a botched raid is not the most plausible argument to make ...


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

now all the proves of osama,s death have been wiped pot.......................


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## S.M.R

So all the Navy Seals have been killed, who did OBL's operation??? good, was trying to search my post where I said that the Seals who took part in operation should worry about their lives...


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## S.M.R

Xeric said:


> Team 6; coincidence or what?


 
Sssshhhh............. Dont try be C.T.


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## Devil Soul

*US probes Afghanistan special forces helicopter crash*
The US military is trying to confirm whether insurgent fire brought down a helicopter in Afghanistan with the loss of 38 people, most of them Americans.

The dead included Navy Seals, Afghan commandos, US Air Force personnel, a dog handler, the Chinook crew and a civilian interpreter.

The 30 US deaths are the largest single American loss of life in the conflict.

On Sunday another four Nato soldiers were killed in two separate attacks in eastern and southern Afghanistan.

Nato has not yet confirmed the nationalities of the four soldiers.

The Chinook helicopter went down in a district of Wardak province, west of Kabul, early on Saturday.

Officials, witnesses and the Taliban have said it was shot down by insurgents during a combat mission.

The presence of at least 17 of the Seals has led to speculation that they were involved in a highly significant operation, such as targeting a high-ranking figure in the insurgency.

US sources have said they were from the same Navy Seal unit, known as Team Six, which killed Osama Bin Laden in May, but are "unlikely" to be the same personnel.

American officials have refused to confirm the cause of the crash on the record but some have told news agencies they believe the Chinook was shot down.

Afghan officials in Wardak province said a Taliban rocket hit the craft. A local resident who saw the incident told the BBC that he saw the Chinook catch fire and crash after a rocket hit it.

The Taliban claimed they shot the helicopter down as it was involved in a raid on a house in Wardak where insurgents were gathering.

The BBC's Quentin Sommerville in Kabul says it is rare for the Taliban to shoot down aircraft.

The Taliban say they have modified their rocket-propelled grenades to improve their accuracy but that may not be true, our correspondent says.

'Extraordinary sacrifices'
The top US military officer, Adm Mike Mullen, said it was too soon to say what brought it down.
"Information is still coming in about this incident. I think it's important that we allow investigators to do their work before jumping to too many conclusions," the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said.

President Barack Obama paid his condolences to the Americans and Afghans killed in the crash.

"Their deaths are a reminder of the extraordinary sacrifices made by the men and women of our military and their families, including all who have served in Afghanistan," he said in a statement on Saturday.

The US is relying more on special forces to fight the war against insurgents in Afghanistan, carrying out night raids against key leaders and conducting surveillance operations.

After last year's increase in troop numbers - credited with some success in reducing Taliban activity in southern Afghanistan - some withdrawals have begun. The goal is for all foreign combat forces to leave the country by the end of 2014.

There are currently about 140,000 foreign troops - about 100,000 of them American - in Afghanistan, fighting the Taliban insurgency and training local troops to take over security.

The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force has begun the process of handing over control of security in some areas to local forces. Bamiyan became the first province to pass to Afghan control in mid-July.

Who are the Navy Seals?

2,500 US Navy special forces
They carry out Sea, Air and Land operations, hence their name
Origins lie in World War II
Involved in Vietnam, Panama, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen
Team Six is elite group officially known as the Naval Special Warfare Development Group
Team Six based near Virginia Beach, members usually have five years of experience, part of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC )

Nato's worst Afghan moments

6 April 2005 - Chinook crash in Ghazni province kills 15 US soldiers and three civilian contractors
28 June 2005 - 16 US troops killed when Taliban bring down Chinook in Kunar province
16 August 2005 - 17 Spanish soldiers die when Cougar helicopter crashes near Herat
5 May 2006 - 10 US soldiers die after Chinook crashes east of Kabul
2 Sept 2006 - 14 UK personnel killed when RAF Nimrod explodes following mid-air refuelling
18 August 2008 - 10 French soldiers killed in Taliban ambush east of Kabul
6 August 2011 - 31 US special forces and seven Afghan soldiers killed in Chinook crash
Source: BBC and news agencies

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## Ahmad Abdullah Ravian

Well at least Taliban took the courage that Pakistan should have exercised for US

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## S.M.R

Asim Aquil said:


> US choppers haven't been shot down by RPG in 10 years in Afghanistan and suddenly two Chinooks in two weeks?


 
In those 10 years OBL was alive in US books, now he is dead and claimed to be living in Pakistan, something new was required to be happened. All lies, damn lies... will now become truth.


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## Oldman1

Ahmad Abdullah Ravian said:


> Well at least Taliban took the courage that Pakistan should have exercised for US


 
We are at war with the Taliban. Pakistan is not. Hence no need for the courage unless they are stupid to try. The Navy SEALs at least have the courage to go and find Osama Bin Laden in a high dangerous territory where people loves Osama and willing to die for him.


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## Oldman1

S.M.R said:


> So all the Navy Seals have been killed, who did OBL's operation??? good, was trying to search my post where I said that the Seals who took part in operation should worry about their lives...


 
Good question and the answer is no. None of the SEALs involved in the death of Osama was killed. Just other members of SIX.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Oldman1 said:


> Good question and the answer is no. None of the SEALs involved in the death of Osama was killed. Just other members of SIX.


 
People like to make everything controversial.Among the stories making rounds one is that the team that killed OBL is dead and now no one has the proof that OBL was killed.


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## S.M.R

Oldman1 said:


> Good question and the answer is no. *None of the SEALs involved in the death of Osama was killed. Just other members of SIX.*


 
Another U turn. Do we know the names of members who took part in that operation? It is just been told what you are saying...


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## VelocuR

What happen to Chinook transport helicopter's radar warning system ?

Few days later, US will blame on Pakistan for no reason regarding Navy Seals deaths.


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## Oldman1

S.M.R said:


> Another U turn. Do we know the names of members who took part in that operation? It is just been told what you are saying...


 
Nevermind I think you are referring to the Osama raid. No they will never release that. Unless some idiot tries.


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## Oldman1

RaptorRX707 said:


> What happen to Chinook transport helicopter's radar warning system ?
> 
> Few days later, US will blame on Pakistan for no reason regarding Navy Seals deaths.


 
Useless against rpgs. They are not guided so no warning. I think the best chance against just weapons would be the active protection system used on tanks. When a fast moving projectile heads towards a helo, it could disable or destroyed the weapon before it harms it. If indeed the helo was shot down which so far looks like it did, it would raise awareness to implement such a project.


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## Juice

Leader said:


> I read in one of the news papers that the among the dead 25 Seals are those who did operation in Abbatabad ? is it so ?


 
Same unit, not the same guys. They were rotated out of Afghanistan for obvious reasons.


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## soul hacker

Oldman1 said:


> We are at war with the Taliban. Pakistan is not. Hence no need for the courage unless they are stupid to try. The Navy SEALs at least have the courage to go and find Osama Bin Laden in a high dangerous territory where people loves Osama and willing to die for him.


 
oh PAKISTAN IS NOT{to hamari army jhak mar rhi hai }


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## S.M.R

Oldman1 said:


> Nevermind I think you are referring to the Osama raid. No they will never release that. Unless some idiot tries.


 
Yes, they will never release that, I know. So who knows that seals got killed yesterday were 'NOT' the same who took part in OBL's raid? So keep digesting whatever being told, but sorry, we will not do that.


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## Juice

As far as RPG's shooting down a Helo, has no one seen Blackhawk down? Yes, RPG's can take down helos, Chinooks are particularly vulnerable being relatively big and slow. It is rare, but happens.


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## S.M.R

Oldman1 said:


> *We are at war with the Taliban. Pakistan is not. *Hence no need for the courage unless they are stupid to try. The Navy SEALs at least have the courage to go and find Osama Bin Laden in a high dangerous territory where people loves Osama and willing to die for him.


 
Please add the word 'drama' before war in the bold sentence, to make it realistic. We have lost more than 30,000 lives during this fu_cking war. I wish and pray that the number on your side get 100 times multiple of what we have lost, so your statement comes true.


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## WAQAS119

Juice said:


> As far as RPG's shooting down a Helo, has no one seen Blackhawk down? Yes, RPG's can take down helos, Chinooks are particularly vulnerable being relatively big and slow. It is rare, but happens.


 
Yeap, I have seen black hawk down and no one was injured in their....! Chinook seems alot more protective than black hawk with its thick skin --- then 30 deaths? Isn't that unbelievable? Considering a RPG hit, it should not be flying high?


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## S.M.R

Juice said:


> As far as RPG's shooting down a Helo, has no one seen Blackhawk down? Yes, RPG's can take down helos, Chinooks are particularly vulnerable being relatively big and slow. *It is rare, but happens.*


 
Once in ten years?

After OBL drama is over?

by killing the Seals to bury all the links that might reveal the OBL's raid reality?


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## President Camacho

S.M.R said:


> Yes, they will never release that, I know. So who knows that seals got killed yesterday were 'NOT' the same who took part in OBL's raid? So keep digesting whatever being told, *but sorry, we will not do that.*


 

Just one hard fact - No one really cares.

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## S.M.R

President Camacho said:


> Just one hard fact - No one really cares.


 
Yes and few days back US seals (RIP) who were part of operation just contradicted with US official statements, that they were on mission to kill OBL not to arrest. Now US seals have been killed before they reveal further 'contradictions'.

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## Irfan Baloch

I fear that this incident might be used by the American &#8220;kill teams&#8221; and CIA drone operators to commit those &#8220;isolated&#8221; incidents yet again that have resulted in deliberate killing of civilians and even severing their body parts as trophies, while the likes of Fox News and NYT will bombard the senses of the people with the stories of this Taliban &#8221;atrocity&#8221; , the troops in Afghanistan will use this moment as a free pass to commit murder as a revenge for their downed comrades, knowing every well that the US media will mute any voice of protest from the human rights organisations or usual Karzai babbling after the NATO strikes on civilians. 

It pains me to see that the US military command and the administration is so generous in condemning the likes of Gadafi and Bashar Al Asad for their human rights violations and targeted killing of civilians but when its own troops are found again and again since the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq to this day *committing murder & celebrating it openly* with pictures and videos of themselves killing Iraqis and Afghans and I am not even talking about collateral damage (through artillery or air strikes but targeted & deliberate killing of civilians).


While the decent Americans gasp with disbelief and voice their &#8220;concern&#8221; over such incidents but when American forces suffer any casualties in double figures such sentiments are harshly muted out by the NeoCons and their media outlets. 

I wont be surprised if very soon we don&#8217;t see yet another revenge attack by the &#8220;rouge&#8221; soldiers which I think work under the instructions and approval of the high command because there is a pattern and consistency suggesting some policy that includes killing civilians because might is right and no other nation in the world dares to question the American Empire. 

Looks like the Taliban responded in kind to the Americans, because on one hand Americans are going through different channels opening a dialog with the Taliban to ensure stability and some workable solution after their departure but on the other hand their covert operations by the military and CIA are intensified to kill as many Taliban as they can so as to have a weaker and subdued opponents then the parlays reach the final stage.

I am sure that the stories that have come out are as they say, tip of the iceberg, there might be unexplained mass graves found later on which might tell stories of the perpetrators, the truth eventually comes out.

Lastly , to be fair, I will like to pay respect to the dead soldiers, they died for the cause of their country and the oath they took and they believed in what they were doing in that part of the word was right. And I wish that their deaths are not marred by the actions of their comrades that lack professionalism and look more like rouges and undisciplined militia rather than a disciplined army.


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## Irfan Baloch

Ahmad Abdullah Ravian said:


> Well at least Taliban took the courage that Pakistan should have exercised for US


 
sorry but Taliban are the declared enemies, whereas US and Pakistan are allies, so no matter how much some people want, both countries shall enver go to war with each other.
btw sorry for thanking your post I was meaning to reply

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## Oldman1

S.M.R said:


> Yes, they will never release that, I know. So who knows that seals got killed yesterday were 'NOT' the same who took part in OBL's raid? So keep digesting whatever being told, but sorry, we will not do that.


 
Guess you don't realize how big SIX is. The moment members of SIX was killed people assumed that all of them (who participated in Osama's death) were killed. That made me laugh when you look at all the posts in this thread that thinks it was the same ones. The article mentions SIX, didn't said it was all the same guys. Never said anything else.


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## Oldman1

WAQAS119 said:


> Yeap, I have seen black hawk down and no one was injured in their....! Chinook seems alot more protective than black hawk with its thick skin --- then 30 deaths? Isn't that unbelievable? Considering a RPG hit, it should not be flying high?


 
If you seen insurgent videos they usually fire on the helos while they are taking off or landing. Thats the most exposed position.


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## monitor

Oldman1 said:


> If you seen insurgent videos they usually fire on the helos while they are taking off or landing. Thats the most exposed position.


 
At that time they are very close to ground and in the range of rpg/ manpad .


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## Juice

WAQAS119 said:


> Yeap, I have seen black hawk down and no one was injured in their....! Chinook seems alot more protective than black hawk with its thick skin --- then 30 deaths? Isn't that unbelievable? Considering a RPG hit, it should not be flying high?


 
Chinooks are thin-skin over a metal frame. Would rather be in a blackhawk. Last time we lost this much it was a chinook too. I can't believe we keep using them on raids. They should be kept in the back fo logistics.


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## notsuperstitious

WAQAS119 said:


> I should have mentioned, "sane person" with "sane answer" in my post to avoid trouble answering you. And it is you to cool down if i used word 'HINDU CONSPIRACY THEORISTS". I am not expecting any Indian to rate any Pakistan news agency as top rated. I have not seen or read that article or news but indians news agencies have rich history of spewing bullshit although I don't think if that particular article was a bullshit.



Of course not because that article WAS NOT in an Indian newspaper but in a Pakistani trash website that works as chicken soup for the soulless!

No wonder a self proclaimed sane person lapped it up!

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## S.M.R

Oldman1 said:


> Guess you don't realize how big SIX is. The moment members of SIX was killed people assumed that all of them (who participated in Osama's death) were killed. That made me laugh when you look at all the posts in this thread that thinks it was the same ones. The article mentions SIX, didn't said it was all the same guys. Never said anything else.


 
This is what I said, we have to believe that is being told. No proof, just words of mouth so far.


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## President Camacho

S.M.R said:


> This is what I said, we have to believe that is being told. No proof, just words of mouth so far.


 
You seem to desperately want to believe that the Americans are lying, esp about the OBL raid. 

Okay - for a moment let us not believe them, and let us give in to the piece of history that you desire: - 

"The Seals that died in the Chinook yesterday were the same that killed OBL, and were deliberately killed by their own government to hide the truth".

There you go... 

Q: Now what are you going do with it? Or, for that matter, what could the Pakistani government ever do with it?

A: Absolutely nothing.

Conclusion: Better believe what sounds *most reasonable* and sane, and not risk appearing low on sanity.

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## S.M.R

President Camacho said:


> You seem to desperately want to believe that the Americans are lying, esp about the OBL raid.
> 
> Okay - for a moment let us not believe them, and let us give in to the piece of history that you desire: -
> 
> "The Seals that died in the Chinook yesterday were the same that killed OBL, and were deliberately killed by their own government to hide the truth".
> 
> There you go...
> 
> Q: Now what are you going do with it? Or, for that matter, what could the Pakistani government ever do with it?
> 
> A: Absolutely nothing.
> 
> Conclusion: Better believe what sounds *most reasonable* and sane, and not risk appearing low on sanity.


 
It has nothing to with Pakistan's Govt. and they really don't care what do others think about that. These type of stories are part of great game that is to be achieved by the main players. For the purpose they need lives of few of its own people. So they need to justify their own people, that whatever they are doing is 'right' and to protect them.

They know that the tool of labeling 'Conspiracy Theorist' is always there and will be used as and when required.


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## gambit

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> The propaganda machine in the West, against the PA and ISI, has replicated similar sentiment in the case of Americans against the PA/ISI ....
> 
> You can't really complain about 'outlandish and illogical anti-US Establishment sentiment in the Muslim world', when 'outlandish and anti-Pakistan Establishment sentiment' permeates American society.


That was not a complaint but an expectation. There are a lot of muslims who believe that Jews consume human blood in some religious rituals. I do not see similar in the quite liberal American press about Pakistan. What I am saying is that Americans -- at least from my perspective -- have gotten quite used to hearing about these things from the muslim world. We are no longer surprised.


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## Kashmiri Nationalist

gambit said:


> That was not a complaint but an expectation. There are *a lot of muslims who believe that Jews consume human blood in some religious rituals*. I do not see similar in the quite liberal American press about Pakistan. What I am saying is that Americans -- at least from my perspective -- have gotten quite used to hearing about these things from the muslim world. We are no longer surprised.


 
 Never heard of anything like that; also, what is a "lot of", if you're talking into the good few millions, then I'd agree, but if it's only a few thousand, you can hardly compare it to the Amerca's sentiment of Pakistan.


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## Devil Soul

*SEALs killed in Afghan crash on rescue mission*
By KIMBERLY DOZIER - Associated Press,RAHIM FAIEZ - Associated Press | AP &#8211; 1 hr 53 mins ago
KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) &#8212; The U.S. Navy SEALs and other troops whose helicopter was shot down in eastern Afghanistan had rushed to the mountainous area to help a U.S. Army Ranger unit that was under fire from insurgents, two U.S. officials said Sunday.
The rescue team had completed the mission, subduing the attackers who had the Rangers pinned down, and were departing in their Chinook helicopter when the aircraft was apparently hit, one of the officials said.
Thirty Americans and 8 Afghans were killed in the crash, making it the deadliest single loss for U.S. forces in the decade-long war in Afghanistan. The Rangers, special operations forces who work regularly with the SEALs, afterward secured the crash site in the Tangi Joy Zarin area of Wardak province, about 60 miles (97 kilometers) southwest of Kabul, the other official said.
Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the event, as the investigation is still ongoing. The SEAL mission was first reported by CNN.
On Sunday, NATO began an operation to recover the remains of the large transport helicopter, while Afghan and American forces battled insurgents in the region of the crash. The clashes Sunday did not appear to involve the troops around the crash site.
"There have been a small number of limited engagements in the same district as yesterday's helicopter crash, however those clashes have not been in the direct vicinity of the crash site," NATO said in a statement. "As of now, we have no reporting to indicate any coalition casualties resulting from these engagements."

Wardak provincial spokesman Shahidullah Shahid confirmed the helicopter recovery mission was under way and said there were reports of Taliban casualties overnight.
"There is a joint operation going on by Afghan and NATO forces. A clearing operation is ongoing in the district and there are reports of casualties among insurgents," Shahid said. "The area is still surrounded by American forces."
Elsewhere in Afghanistan, NATO said insurgents killed four alliance service members in two separate attacks in the east and the south. It did not provide their nationalities or any other details.
The deaths bring to 369 the number of coalition troops killed this year in Afghanistan and 46 this month.
The downing of the helicopter Saturday was heavy setback for the U.S.-led coalition as it begins to draw down thousands of combat troops fighting what has become an increasingly costly and unpopular war.
Of the 30 Americans killed, there were 22 Navy SEALs, three Air Force combat controllers and a dog handler, his dog and four crew members, a current U.S. official and a former U.S. official said on condition of anonymity because military officials were still notifying the families of the dead.
Most of the SEALs belonged to the same elite unit that killed Osama bin Laden, although they were not the same people who participated in the May raid into Pakistan that killed the al-Qaida leader. The downing was a stinging blow to the lauded, tight-knit SEAL Team 6, months after its crowning achievement.


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## MM_Haider

President Camacho said:


> You seem to desperately want to believe that the Americans are lying, esp about the OBL raid.
> 
> Okay - for a moment let us not believe them, and let us give in to the piece of history that you desire: -
> 
> "The Seals that died in the Chinook yesterday were the same that killed OBL, and were deliberately killed by their own government to hide the truth".
> 
> There you go...
> 
> Q: Now what are you going do with it? Or, for that matter, what could the Pakistani government ever do with it?
> 
> A: Absolutely nothing.
> 
> Conclusion: Better believe what sounds *most reasonable* and sane, and not risk appearing low on sanity.


 
looks like Mr. Chankia is speaking from your within.. lolzz

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## Irfan Baloch

I fear that this incident might be used by the American kill teams and CIA drone operators to commit those isolated incidents yet again that have resulted in deliberate killing of civilians and even severing their body parts as trophies, while the likes of Fox News and NYT will bombard the senses of the people with the stories of this Taliban atrocity , the troops in Afghanistan will use this moment as a free pass to commit murder as a revenge for their downed comrades, knowing every well that the US media will mute any voice of protest from the human rights organisations or usual Karzai babbling after the NATO strikes on civilians. 

It pains me to see that the US military command and the administration is so generous in condemning the likes of Gadafi and Bashar Al Asad for their human rights violations and targeted killing of civilians but when its own troops are found again and again since the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq to this day* committing murder* & celebrating it openly with pictures and videos of themselves killing Iraqis and Afghans and I am not even talking about collateral damage (through artillery or air strikes but targeted & deliberate killing of civilians.

While the decent Americans gasp with disbelief and voice their concern over such incidents but when American forces suffer any casualties in double figures such sentiments are harshly muted out by the NeoCons and their media outlets. 

I wont be surprised if very soon we dont see yet another revenge attack by the rouge soldiers which I think work under the instructions and approval of the high command because there is a pattern and consistency suggesting some policy that includes killing civilians because might is right and no other nation in the world dares to question the American Empire. 

Looks like the Taliban responded in kind to the Americans, because on one hand Americans are going through different channels opening a dialog with the Taliban to ensure stability and some workable solution after their departure but on the other hand their covert operations by the military and CIA are intensified to kill as many Taliban as they can so as to have a weaker and subdued opponents then the parlays reach the final stage.

I am sure that the stories that have come out are as they say, tip of the iceberg, there might be unexplained mass graves found later on which might tell stories of the perpetrators, the truth eventually comes out.

Lastly , to be I will like to pay respect to the dead soldiers, they died for the cause of their country and the oath they took and they believed in what they were doing in that part of the word was right. And I wish that their deaths are not marred by the actions of their comrades that lack professionalism and look more like rouges and undisciplined militia rather than a disciplined army.


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## pak-marine

Leader said:


> taliban hand made kitchen launcher....


 
haha ... good one dude


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## Donatello

Anyway, The SEALs were brave men who died fighting for Israel.


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## T90TankGuy

penumbra said:


> Anyway, The SEALs were brave men who died fighting for Israel.


 
Israel ? i thought they were Americans . !! or is it your contention that there is a world wide Jewish conspiracy to kill Muslims?


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## Donatello

jbgt90 said:


> Israel ? i thought they were Americans . !! or is it your contention that there is a world wide Jewish conspiracy to kill Muslims?


 
Sarcasm intended, if you didn't get it.

Look at the bigger picture and how the Israel Lobby works in the power circles of Washington D.C.


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## President Camacho

MM_Haider said:


> looks like Mr. Chankia is speaking from your within.. lolzz


 
Zaid Hamid fans like you should avoid reading my posts... lolzz

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## Irfan Baloch

President Camacho said:


> Q: Now what are you going do with it? Or, for that matter, what could the Pakistani government ever do with it?
> 
> 
> A: Absolutely nothing.


you got that right. this is a discussion forum and we will only share differing thoughts to form an opinion. as far as Pakistan government is concerned, we are not the spokesmen for the government maybe you check with the Pakistani foreign office. The likely comment will be&#8221; no comment&#8220;. if not content with that then check what Indian government is going to do what it/



President Camacho said:


> Conclusion: Better believe what sounds *most reasonable* and sane, and not risk appearing low on sanity.



Indeed, it applies to your respected self as well. don&#8217;t get too overworked over different opinions, its an open discussion forum and if you find something against your view point then give your self a chance to think why and how something can be different from a general perception. Its called free thinking and that&#8217;s how societies evolve and visionaries and philosophers are born who think outside the box and refuse to accept the &#8220;sane&#8221; and well known &#8220;fact&#8221; like &#8220;Earth&#8221; is flat and is the centre for the universe.

Such conformity requirement is a trait of repressive regime that demands its subjects to accept the official line because it is the only &#8220;sane&#8221; explanation. But even the &#8220;free world&#8221; is not immune to it hence the sound explanation and case for war against Iraq goes from alleged weapons of Mass destruction to weapons of mass destruction programs. To date since the mysterious death and unexplained death of David Kelly, neither the WMDs not their programs have been uncovered by the forces of the free world.

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## Juice

Irfan Baloch said:


> you got that right. this is a discussion forum and we will only share differing thoughts to form an opinion. as far as Pakistan government is concerned, we are not the spokesmen for the government maybe you check with the Pakistani foreign office. The likely comment will be&#8221; no comment&#8220;. if not content with that then check what Indian government is going to do what it/
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it applies to your respected self as well. don&#8217;t get too overworked over different opinions, its an open discussion forum and if you find something against your view point then give your self a chance to think why and how something can be different from a general perception. Its called free thinking and that&#8217;s how societies evolve and visionaries and philosophers are born who think outside the box and refuse to accept the &#8220;sane&#8221; and well known &#8220;fact&#8221; like &#8220;Earth&#8221; is flat and is the centre for the universe.
> 
> Such conformity requirement is a trait of repressive regime that demands its subjects to accept the official line because it is the only &#8220;sane&#8221; explanation. But even the &#8220;free world&#8221; is not immune to it hence the sound explanation and case for war against Iraq goes from alleged weapons of Mass destruction to weapons of mass destruction programs. To date since the mysterious death and unexplained death of David Kelly, neither the WMDs not their programs have been uncovered by the forces of the free world.


 
C'mon Ifran, I gave you more credit than that. The WMD's were real, ask the Iranians who got to huff a lungful of gas. They were never the real reason to invade Iraq (after 9/11 it became clear we couldn't leave this region to its own devices, unsupervised Islam is too nutty). The only suprise is that the were well hidden or shipped out (Syria perhaps?). To anyone with any thought it is well known Iraq got hit for its central position (bordering many states we like to keep tabs on) The fact we fought them before made it only that much easier.

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## Irfan Baloch

Juice said:


> C'mon Ifran, I gave you more credit than that. The WMD's were real, ask the Iranians who got to huff a lungful of gas. They were never the real reason to invade Iraq (after 9/11 it became clear we couldn't leave this region to its own devices, unsupervised Islam is too nutty). The only suprise is that the were well hidden or shipped out (Syria perhaps?). To anyone with any thought it is well known Iraq got hit for its central position (bordering many states we like to keep tabs on) The fact we fought them before made it only that much easier.


I wont respond to you unless you accept my friend request 

you are honest I must give you that. 
dont you remember how the word WMD morphed into WMD programs? Saddam was a bad man and ran a country he didnt deserve and had KSA and Iran as neighbours and that region needed American forces to safeguard its long term objectives fair enough 

by the way back to the subject, is there any suggestion of Haqqani's network in this shooting down of the Chinook?


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## President Camacho

Irfan Baloch said:


> you got that right. this is a discussion forum and we will only share differing thoughts to form an opinion. as far as Pakistan government is concerned, we are not the spokesmen for the government maybe you check with the Pakistani foreign office. The likely comment will be&#8221; no comment&#8220;. if not content with that then check what Indian government is going to do what it/
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it applies to your respected self as well. don&#8217;t get too overworked over different opinions, its an open discussion forum and if you find something against your view point then give your self a chance to think why and how something can be different from a general perception. Its called free thinking and that&#8217;s how societies evolve and visionaries and philosophers are born who think outside the box and refuse to accept the &#8220;sane&#8221; and well known &#8220;fact&#8221; like &#8220;Earth&#8221; is flat and is the centre for the universe.
> 
> Such conformity requirement is a trait of repressive regime that demands its subjects to accept the official line because it is the only &#8220;sane&#8221; explanation. But even the &#8220;free world&#8221; is not immune to it hence the sound explanation and case for war against Iraq goes from alleged weapons of Mass destruction to weapons of mass destruction programs. To date since the mysterious death and unexplained death of David Kelly, neither the WMDs not their programs have been uncovered by the forces of the free world.


 


I doubt I ever sounded like I was going to choke someone's thinking process. Free thinking flows freely in here, and of all the people I would support it the most. However, when in the name of free thinking, a completely biased (that's kind of opposite of free thinking), baseless, and unreasonable statement is made, then it is bound to be acknowledged for what it is.

Thinking that the Seals that got killed in the Chinook were those who had killed Osama is completely unreasonable and senseless on many grounds. What went wrong when I pointed it out?

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## CardSharp

Ahmad said:


> Uighur fighters were/are trained and fighting side by side the taliban, long live the resistance of Uigher brothers against chinese agression and discrimination.


 
Bit of a hypocrite aren't you?

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## unicorn

Of the 22 NSW members killed, 17 were SEALs and five were direct support personnel, according to the source in the NSW community. Two of the SEALs were from a West Coast SEAL unit, but the others were from Gold Squadron of Naval Special Warfare Development Group, or DevGru, sometimes known as SEAL Team 6, said the NSW source.

DevGru, based in Dam Neck, Va., is the Navys Tier One special mission unit that operates as part of task forces formed under the Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, N.C. It is the Navys equivalent to the Armys 1st Special Forces Operational Command  Delta, or Delta Force. DevGru has four line squadrons  Blue, Gold, Red and Silver  plus a strategic reconnaissance element known as Black Squadron.

Each squadron is divided into three troops. *The crash wiped out an entire troop in Gold Squadron, said the NSW source.*


My prayers to all..


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## Irfan Baloch

President Camacho said:


> I doubt I ever sounded like I was going to choke someone's thinking process. Free thinking flows freely in here, and of all the people I would support it the most. However, when in the name of free thinking, a completely biased (that's kind of opposite of free thinking), baseless, and unreasonable statement is made, then it is bound to be acknowledged for what it is.
> 
> Thinking that the Seals that got killed in the Chinook were those who had killed Osama is completely unreasonable and senseless on many grounds. What went wrong when I pointed it out?




I agree in essence but you are making a subjective statement by heavy usage of senseless, baseless etc.. their meaning is relative .
the point is.. someone says that he is 100% sure that the dead SEALs were the participants of the OBL attack then yes thats silly without providing proof but then again we cant be 100% sure that they were not the one because the white house or state department etc say so  if anyone of us is privy to sensitive information then I don&#8217;t think he will discuss it on a public forum. Given his or her authority and job he would rather keep it a secret.

honestly.. to me it doesn&#8217;t make any difference if they weer OBL killers or not. These guys died in the line of duty and may their souls rest in peace and if they were the ones that fired a warning shot in OBL&#8217;s head then I pray for them and thank them for ridding us of a terrorist that our own agencies couldn&#8217;t.

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## Juice

el secular los kanjares said:


> yes sir..everyone rests in peace...jack the ripper will also rest in peace and so will nehru...trueman who vaporized millions of japanese civilians by using nuclear bombs is also resting in peace and so is indra gandhi as she also died in the line of duty according to your very logic


 
Yes, the poor poor Japanese, minding their own business when we attacked without warning. We should of let them have their way with China in my opinion.


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## President Camacho

Irfan Baloch said:


> I agree in essence but you are making a subjective statement by heavy usage of senseless, baseless etc.. their meaning is relative .
> the point is.. someone says that he is 100% sure that the dead SEALs were the participants of the OBL attack then yes thats silly without providing proof but then again we cant be 100% sure that they were not the one because the white house or state department etc say so  if anyone of us is privy to sensitive information then I don&#8217;t think he will discuss it on a public forum. Given his or her authority and job he would rather keep it a secret.
> 
> honestly.. to me it doesn&#8217;t make any difference if they weer OBL killers or not. These guys died in the line of duty and may their souls rest in peace and if they were the ones that fired a warning shot in OBL&#8217;s head then I pray for them and thank them for ridding us of a terrorist that our own agencies couldn&#8217;t.


 
I am really glad you brought my words into question. It not only gives me a chance to justify their usage, but may also help keep a check on their relevance.

Now let us see whether my words stand scrutiny: 

Unreasonable - How reasonable is it to think that the US government would change the entire team (by killing the original ones) and create another Pandora's box? The identity of those Seals, and the photographs of the operation (OBL) are not top secret. They can be accessed by any Congressman on request, and have been too. How many Congressmen would have to be kept quiet on this, if the original team were to be wiped off? It becomes a nightmare, even more so when all the news sources have been told that they (Seals) were not the same ones.

Baseless - Because it fails to take into account the months of training the Seals (OBL op) had gone under for that aggressive operation, whereas, this operation was a difficult rescue mission (Hence team 6 involvement), and different specialists (with different training) of that elite team would have to be employed. Killing them (Seals of OBL) can be done in many better ways, rather than putting up a show of utter failure and exposed weakness.

Senseless - Would it not make more sense to train those same Seals to lie about the operation than to replace them with new ones to lie about it?

I am not saying the US government is not lying. It must be, every government does! Even more to its own people than to others. 

But when we are to assess a situation, we shall take every option and every aspect available into consideration. Then came S.M.R.'s post stating that he is not to believe a thing without a proof, and will believe it is a lie - but that too is without a proof! 

So, when someone displays nothing but a belief, then I suppose I am justified in calling into question the basis, reasoning, and sense behind it.

See Irfan, perhaps it is my thought process that is different. I deduce the facts after critically reading the articles (with the writer's bio in question), getting only that information that can be verified, and judging the moves and motives behind the actions by their consequences. So it is bound to get me pretty worked up when people display no respect for facts and let their biases run amok. 

My words may be relative, and indeed nothing is confirmed as a fact, but I am only looking for the most plausible explanation behind any action.

Well, thanks again for reading my post critically. It helps.

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## Juice

Ocam's Razor helps

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## Moustafa Kalaf

So it was the same men who were responsible for the OBL raid and consensus says that it was a conspiracy to silence them. 

What else is new?


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## President Camacho

CardSharp said:


> Bit of a hypocrite aren't you?


 
You should have at least bothered to read the post he was replying to... It was mere a retaliation with a quip. 

He dislikes Taliban and such militancy much more than you do!

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## forcetrip

*US helicopter shot down in Taliban trap: Afghan official*

KABUL: A helicopter which crashed killing 30 US troops in Afghanistan was shot down after the Taliban laid a trap to lure US forces into the area, an Afghan government official said Monday.

&#8220;Now it&#8217;s confirmed that the helicopter was shot down and it was a trap that was set by a Taliban commander,&#8221; said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The official said the commander lured US forces to the scene by telling them there was a Taliban meeting taking place there.

The official said that President Hamid Karzai&#8217;s US-backed government &#8220;thinks this was a retaliation attack for the killing of Osama Bin Laden.&#8221; The Taliban did not make such an assertion when they claimed responsibility for the attack.

Citing intelligence &#8220;gathered from the area,&#8221; the official blamed Qari Tahir, a Taliban commander, for masterminding the attack. He alleged that four Pakistani nationals helped Tahir carry out the strike.

He said the intelligence also showed that the Chinook helicopter was brought down by multiple shots including &#8220;modern weapons&#8221; without giving further details.

The helicopter was attacked from either side of a valley, the only route to the Taliban-dominated Sayd Abad district in Wardak province where the attack happened late Friday, the official said.

&#8220;The Taliban knew which route the helicopter would take,&#8221; he added.

&#8220;That&#8217;s the only route, so they took position on the either side of the valley on mountains and as the helicopter approached, they attacked it with rockets and other modern weapons. It was brought down by multiple shots,&#8221; he said.

US helicopter shot down in Taliban trap: Afghan official | World | DAWN.COM


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## forcetrip

Post Doubled.


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## Juice

Lol, Santro, you got class!


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## Ahmad

CardSharp said:


> Bit of a hypocrite aren't you?


 
I am not, did you see the post i was replying to? Go back and see the other post and you will see why I posted what i posted.


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## Guest01

CardSharp said:


> Bit of a hypocrite aren't you?


 
You mean like those who wish for Taliban rule in Afghanistan?

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## Juice

Guest01 said:


> You mean like those who wish for Taliban rule in Afghanistan?


 
Lets be honest...few members here would actually like Taliban rule, they only resent American power. Natural enough, I would always support what would make my nation stronger, even if it were idiots that opposed what I considered a threat. (Ps ...we are not natural enemies of Pakistan, only of the policies Pakistan enacted out of a deep-seated fear of India, who I doubt wish you as ill as you imagine)


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## CardSharp

Guest01 said:


> You mean like those who wish for Taliban rule in Afghanistan?


 
You look really smart interjecting without understanding F all about neither side of the argument. Bravo the Indo-Australian power duo.


(hey that rhymed)

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## Patriot

RIP Soldiers.


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## Guest01

Juice said:


> Lets be honest...few members here would actually like Taliban rule, they only resent American power. Natural enough, I would always support what would make my nation stronger, even if it were idiots that opposed what I considered a threat. (Ps ...we are not natural enemies of Pakistan, only of the policies Pakistan enacted out of a deep-seated fear of India, who I doubt wish you as ill as you imagine)


 
Yeah but then wishing back what your neighbour wishes on you is not be a hypocrite! In the parlance of the discussion, irrespective of the reason of the rejoice of advancing Taliban in Afghanistan (American hatred or plain greed of influence) by Pakistanis, by the end Afghans should not be faulted or called a hypocrite if they are wishing the same up on Pakistan! 

Likewise there was a Chinese member (we got to find some better term for adressing co-subscribers to the site), was wishing for American demise via Taliban advance earlier on this thread, considering that, what Ahmad wrote is nowhere a hypocrisy.

.

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## Guest01

CardSharp said:


> You look really smart interjecting without understanding F all about neither side of the argument. Bravo the Indo-Australian power duo.
> 
> 
> (hey that rhymed)


 
And honestly you looked quite moronic interjecting here without knowing anything of the discussion at all. Now that may not have rhymed... but hey, no sweet promises!

.

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## CardSharp

Guest01 said:


> Yeah but then wishing back what your neighbour wishes on you is not be a hypocrite! In the parlance of the discussion, irrespective of the reason of the rejoice of advancing Taliban in Afghanistan (American hatred or plain greed of influence) by Pakistanis, by the end Afghans should not be faulted or called a hypocrite if they are wishing the same up on Pakistan!
> 
> Likewise there was a Chinese member (we got to find some better term for adressing co-subscribers to the site), was wishing for American demise via Taliban advance earlier on this thread, considering that, what Ahmad wrote is nowhere a hypocrisy.
> 
> .


 
No argument is too preposterous if it's against 'em Chinese. Amirite?


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## CardSharp

Ahmad said:


> I am not, did you see the post i was replying to? Go back and see the other post and you will see why I posted what i posted.


 
Hmmm because two idiots make a right?


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## Guest01

CardSharp said:


> No argument is too preposterous if it's against 'em Chinese. Amirite?


 
Nothing was about China there. Maybe you got consumed by the predicamental fallacy there without following the chain of communication and the correct parlance of the discussion and the post of a member (wtf?) with Chinese flags to which our Ahmad responded. Morons are to be found everywhere. Sanity is to disseminate wisdom everytime the opportunity arises. Is that hypocrisy?

.

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## CardSharp

Guest01 said:


> Nothing was about China there. Maybe you got consumed by the predicamental fallacy there without following the chain of communication and the correct parlance of the discussion and the post of a member (wtf?) with Chinese flags to which our Ahmad responded. Morons are to be found everywhere. Sanity is to disseminate wisdom everytime the opportunity arises. Is that hypocrisy?
> 
> .


 
That makes sense.


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## Ahmad

CardSharp said:


> Hmmm because two idiots make a right?


 
I am not idoit, i was just trying to make a point to shut him up. have you ever seen me praising the Uigher separatists anywhere in this forum before?

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## Saifullah Sani

*Afghan helicopter crash reflects peril for U.S. Special Forces*
By Kevin Sieff, Monday, August 8, 12:02 AM

BAGRAM AIRFIELD, Afghanistan &#8212; The mission that left 30 American troops, including 22 Navy SEALs, dead Saturday morning in eastern Afghanistan was just one of dozens of operations carried out by U.S. Special Operations forces every week in Afghanistan. The only difference was the disastrous ending.

While SEAL Team 6 gained worldwide fame with the raid in May that killed Osama bin Laden, Saturday&#8217;s ill-fated operation reflected the reality of a unit that regularly targets insurgents whose names and faces are almost completely unknown outside military and intelligence circles.

In this case, the mission was aimed at suspects in a series of attacks on foreign convoys along a highway south of Kabul, according to a U.S. official who spoke on the condition of anonymity. Some reports Sunday suggested that SEAL Team 6, which suffered substantial losses when a Chinook helicopter was shot down by an apparent insurgent&#8217;s rocket-propelled grenade, joined the mission after another unit asked for backup. 

U.S. Special Operations forces have been a critical component of the war strategy in Afghanistan, executing operations in remote and volatile locations that are often inaccessible to ground troops. In Wardak Province&#8217;s Tangi Valley, where the crash occurred, U.S. troops had recently withdrawn from the area&#8217;s sole combat outpost.

Such missions are expected to become increasingly important as the United States begins withdrawing troops in the coming months and years, leaving NATO without the manpower to conduct the traditional counterinsurgency operations at the heart of the troop surge over the past 18 months.

Saturday&#8217;s mission was a night raid, which is usually a joint operation between NATO and Afghan forces, often informed by lengthy intelligence-gathering efforts. Afghanistan is in the process of developing its own commandos, and the raids are seen as key to building that nascent force&#8217;s capacity. 

&#8220;Saturday&#8217;s operation was a normal mission that we do jointly,&#8221; Afghan Defense Ministry spokesman Zaher Azimi said. He said Afghan and U.S. troops have cooperated on 10 very similar missions in the past month alone. Seven Afghans also died in the crash, according to U.S. and Afghan officials. 

Officially, NATO would not confirm whether the crash was due to insurgent fire, saying an investigation has been launched. 

The Special Operations missions are seen as critical not only by the Americans and other foreign contingents here, but also by Afghans, who lack an Air Force of their own and often find themselves dependent on NATO air support.

While a number of Afghan National Army units have begun conducting patrols without NATO accompaniment, they often find themselves in need of assistance from Western planes and helicopters when firefights with the Taliban become too intense. 

&#8220;We&#8217;re getting stronger, but without an Air Force, there&#8217;s a limit to our strength,&#8221; said Col. Ataullah Zahir, an Afghan commander in Lashkar Gah, the capital of southern Afghanistan&#8217;s Helmand Province.

It appears unlikely that Saturday&#8217;s crash will threaten U.S. or Afghan confidence in Western air superiority. A senior defense department official told the New Yorker magazine recently that in the past couple of years, Special Operations forces conducted almost 2,000 targeted raids. The vast majority of those did not result in casualties among U.S. or Afghan forces. 

Senior U.S. military officials said the loss of the SEALs would have little impact on the U.S. military&#8217;s ability to conduct strikes on senior and mid-level Taliban officials, which they said have become increasingly effective and lethal over the past year. 

Still, the incident defies U.S. claims of progress as NATO prepares to hand over responsibility for the country&#8217;s security to Afghans by the end of 2014. And it threatens, at least temporarily, to undermine a course long advocated by Vice President Biden, which would make targeted Special Operations an even more central part of military strategy in Afghanistan.

Special correspondent Sayed Salahuddin in Kabul and staff writer Greg Jaffe in Washington contributed to this report.
Afghan helicopter crash reflects peril for Special Forces - The Washington Post


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## Abu Basit

*33 invaders killed as Mujahideen shoot down fourth US helicopter in 48 hrs: Taliban*

The Nation

don't know how much authentic this latest news is , Press Tv has also reported this-


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## SpArK

*SEALs Killed in Crash Were on Rescue Mission​*








KABUL, Afghanistan -- The 30 American servicemembers -- most of them elite Navy SEALs -- who died when their helicopter was shot down had rushed to help Army Rangers who had come under fire, two U.S. officials said.


The heavy loss shows that clandestine tactics carry huge risks despite the huge success of the SEAL mission that killed Osama bin Laden more than three months ago. Most of the SEALs who died Saturday were from the same unit that killed bin Laden, although none of the men took part in that mission.


The U.S.-led coalition plans to rely more on special operations missions as it reduces the overall number of combat troops by the end of 2014.

There were conflicting accounts late Sunday as to whether the SEAL team had subdued the attackers who had pinned down the Rangers and were departing, or whether they were hit as they tried to land. One official said they had accomplished their mission, but another said the aircraft, a Chinook helicopter, was hit as it approached.


Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was still ongoing.


Thirty Americans and eight Afghans -- seven commandos and a civilian translator -- were killed in the crash, making it the deadliest single loss for U.S. forces in the decade-long war in Afghanistan. The Rangers, special operations forces who work regularly with the SEALs, secured the crash site in the Tangi Joy Zarin area of Wardak province, about 60 miles (97 kilometers) southwest of Kabul, the other official said.
The SEAL mission was first reported by CNN.
NATO was recovering the remains of the twin rotor Chinook helicopter. A current and a former U.S. official said the Americans included 22 SEALs, three Air Force members and a dog handler and his dog. The two spoke on condition of anonymity because military officials were still notifying the families of the dead.
All but two of the SEALs were from SEAL Team 6, the unit that killed bin Laden, U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release the information.
Eight Taliban fighters were also killed in the battle, Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said in a statement.
Afghanistan has more U.S. special operations troops, about 10,000, than any other theater of war. The forces, often joined by Afghan troops, are among the most effective weapons in the coalition's arsenal, conducting surveillance, infiltration and capture missions and night raids.
From April to July this year, 2,832 special operations raids captured 2,941 insurgents and killed 834, twice as many as during the same time period last year, according to NATO.....



SEALs, Rangers, and other special operations troops are expected to be the vanguard of the American military effort in Afghanistan as international military forces start pulling out. By the time combat troops plan to have left the country, the coalition will have handed control of security to the Afghan forces they have spent tens of billions of dollars arming and training.
Special operations troops are expected to remain in the country after 2014 for counterterrorism missions and advisory support. Just how many will remain has not yet been negotiated with the Afghan government, but the United States is considering from 5,000 to 20,000, far fewer than the 100,000 U.S. troops there now.


Special operations forces are frequently used to target insurgent commanders as part of an effort to force the Taliban's leadership to agree to a negotiated peace. The operations, mostly in the form of night raids, are often carried out by Afghan and coalition special operations forces.
Night raids have drawn criticism from human rights activists and infuriated Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who says they anger and alienate the Afghan population.
But NATO commanders have said the raids are safer for civilians than relatively imprecise airstrikes.

As U.S. forces removed the wreckage Sunday, nearby Afghan and NATO forces battled insurgents as they carried out clearing operations in the areas around the crash site, a region that is just a stone's throw from the capital. The province, which borders Kabul, has increasingly come under Taliban control in recent months -- even as the U.S.-led coalition has begun handing over security for parts of Afghanistan over to the government of President Hamid Karzai.
"There have been a small number of limited engagements in the same district" as Saturday's helicopter crash, NATO said in a statement. "However those clashes have not been in the direct vicinity of the crash site. As of now, we have no reporting to indicate any coalition casualties resulting from these engagements."


-- Associated Press Intelligence Writer Kimberly Dozier contributed to this story from Washington. Associated Press writer Lolita C. Baldor also contributed from Washington.
© Copyright 2011 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


SEALs Killed in Crash Were on Rescue Mission


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## Abu Zolfiqar

nuclearpak said:


> could be, but a chinook is a rugged heli, V-22 Osprey maybe?


 
Why would the chain of command send in a Chinook, a HUGE, slow, not-very-maneuverable workhorse of a chopper, without some attack helicopters to protect it? 

The damn thing was a sitting duck. Compounded & exacerbated by the fact that it was carrying much equipment and heavy supplies. They weren&#8217;t entering a picnic, they were entering an area known to be containing a plethora of heavily armed fighters. It was a slow, low altitude approach. The Chinooks can be heard from kilometers away when they are approaching. 

In WW II the B-17 bombers had outlying packs of P-38s and P-47s prowling the skies around them to draw fire and fight on behalf of the larger planes when they did their bombing runs; or when supplies were being air-dropped. Has that lesson by the Americans been lost? This scenario just makes no sense.

This incident will obviously have a huge psychological impact on an already war-wary American public; many of whom are keen to cut the losses and get the hell out of Afghanistan. Despite their inferior weapons, the talebans have a way of adapting to their enemies tactics. They obviously had more than just small-arms fire which was used to down the aircraft 

There was some talk about how they &#8216;&#8217;modified their RPGs in order to increase accuracy&#8217;&#8217; though I question that. That Chinook was obviously at the wrong place at the wrong time!

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## razgriz19

colonel said they were murdered!

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## darkinsky

i guess talibans want to kill as many natos as they can so thry they can equalize the lose they suffered during invasion


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## Abu Zolfiqar

they want to be seen in some kind of position of strength --despite the fact that it's no secret that they are engaged in ''backchannel talks'' with NATO (for quite some time now, actually)

taleban no doubt has also taken huge losses; however they have the ability to recruit to make up for those losses due to financial reasons (they pay better), and also due to the fact that they are trying to ''market'' themselves as more of a nationalist resistance


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## sur

Patriot said:


> RIP Soldiers.


*Rot In Piiss-Drinking Hell* all American soldiers ...

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## asad71

Juice said:


> Lets be honest...few members here would actually like Taliban rule, they only resent American power. Natural enough, I would always support what would make my nation stronger, even if it were idiots that opposed what I considered a threat. (Ps ...we are not natural enemies of Pakistan, only of the policies Pakistan enacted out of a deep-seated fear of India, who I doubt wish you as ill as you imagine)


 
You would have a right to oppose Taliban rule in USA. But in Afghanistan - let them mind their own business.


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## sur

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> *Why would the chain of command send in a Chinook, *a HUGE, slow, not-very-maneuverable workhorse of a chopper, without some attack helicopters to protect it? ...*The damn thing was a sitting duck*. .... It was a slow, low altitude approach. The Chinooks can be heard from kilometers away when they are approaching. ...


-
& *then they are claiming that it was a rescue mission,,*, 

& after initially admitting that they were the one's who took part in *OBL-stage-play* , they quickly realized implications of such announcement & CHANGED the statement that they were from same unit BUT not same guys ...
-
-
-


razgriz19 said:


> colonel said they were murdered!


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## Abu Zolfiqar

sur said:


> *Rest In Piiss-Drinking Hell* all American soldiers ...


 
they do as they are ordered.....you can't blame them or villify them. You can blame the foreign policy makers and top-brass who sent them there if you like.

even if you dont like them, have respect for the dead.....they had families too.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

sur said:


> -
> & *then they are claiming that it was a rescue mission,,*,
> 
> & after initially admitting that they were the one's who took part in *OBL-stage-play* , they quickly realized implications of such announcement & CHANGED the statement that they were from same unit BUT not same guys ...
> -
> -
> -


 
no that's nonsense....they were sent in as they had reports the a ''top taleban leader'' was having presence there, presumably in some well guarded safehouse. 

as far as i know, it was not a rescue operation....it was an offensive one.

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## sur

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> they do as they are ordered.....you can't blame them or villify them. You can blame the foreign policy makers and top-brass who sent them there if you like.
> 
> even if you dont like them, have respect for the dead.....they had families too.


With due respect, Sorry brother, NO respect for murderers & for those who are causing "&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;" around the world .... EVEN if it's under orders of someone else ,,, they have brains & must use them ...
-
-
For those who cause "&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;" in the earth ... here's the ruling ...
*Q:5:33:-*
Indeed, the *penalty for those who* wage war against Allah and His Messenger a*nd strive upon earth to cause corruption &#1608;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1587;&#1618;&#1593;&#1614;&#1608;&#1618;&#1606;&#1614; &#1601;&#1616;&#1609; &#1649;&#1604;&#1618;&#1571;&#1614;&#1585;&#1618;&#1590;&#1616; &#1601;&#1614;&#1587;&#1614;&#1575;&#1583;&#1611;* is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. *That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment*, (that explains my above translation of the word "RIP")


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## Abu Zolfiqar

sur said:


> With due respect, Sorry brother, NO respect for murderers & for those who are causing "&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;" around the world .... EVEN if it's under orders of someone else ,,, they have brains & must use them ..



soldiers are not involved in politics or making policy decisions....they just do as ordered whether its peacetime or war-time

even some of those soldiers may not know why they are there or whose fight they are fighting. But they do as ordered and dont ask questions. 


-
For those who cause "&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;" in the earth ... here's the ruling ...
*Q:5:33:-*
Indeed, the *penalty for those who* wage war against Allah and His Messenger a*nd strive upon earth [to cause] corruption* is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. *That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment*, (that explains my above translation of the word "RIP")[/QUOTE]

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## LeGenD

sur said:


> With due respect, Sorry brother, NO respect for murderers & for those who are causing "&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;" around the world .... EVEN if it's under orders of someone else ,,, they have brains & must use them ...
> -
> -
> For those who cause "&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;" in the earth ... here's the ruling ...
> *Q:5:33:-*
> Indeed, the *penalty for those who* wage war against Allah and His Messenger a*nd strive upon earth [to cause] &#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;* is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. *That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment*, (that explains my above translation of the word "RIP")


1. It all started with 9/11. The culprits involved had roots in Afghanistan and were sheltered by Taliban. So "&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;" began from our side.
2. US has not waged a holy war against Islam.

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## sur

LeGenD said:


> 1. It all started with 9/11. The culprits involved had roots in Afghanistan and were sheltered by Taliban. So "&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;" began from our side.
> 2. US has not waged a holy war against Islam.


 
& that all is a proven SCAM,,, US carried 911 herself, so "&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;" u r taking about was ALSO started by US themselves ... It's like causing *DOUBLE*-"&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583;"

- & u missed the speech by Dajjali-Bush where he said *it was a crusade*...
-
-
& u also missed Nostradamus where he foresaw King Of Terror(America) bringing back to life Kings of Mongols(who massacred Muslims)...

The year 1999, seventh month,(Presidential Nomination of Dajjali-Bush)
From the sky will come *a great King of Terror*.(US air raids)
To bring back to life the great King of the Mongols,(US killed Muslims like Mongols***)
Before and after Mars to reign by good luck.

****Mongols started attacks from present day Afghanistan & caused greatest damage in present-day Afghanistan & Iraq ,,, so did US, perfectly fitting the description "To bring back to life the great King of the Mongols" ... Defeat of Mongols started from Syria, & so is predicted in Ahadees that Romans will land around Syria & series of their defeats will start from there*


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## kobiraaz

_U.S. Helo Crashed in Taliban Trap: Afghan Official_

PULI ALAM, Afghanistan - The Taliban lured U.S. forces into an elaborate trap to shoot down their helicopter, killing 30 American troops in the deadliest such incident of the war, an Afghan official said Aug. 8.
The Taliban lured U.S. forces into an elaborate trap to shoot down their helicopter -- similar to this CH-47 Chinook -- an Afghan official said. (Pfc. Donald Watkins / Army)

A total of 38 people - 25 U.S. special forces members, five U.S. crew members, seven Afghan commandos plus an interpreter - were killed when their Chinook came down during an anti-Taliban operation late Aug. 5.


The crash marked the biggest single loss of life for American and NATO forces since the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan toppled the Taliban in late 2001, shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The senior Afghan government official told AFP on condition of anonymity that Taliban commander Qari Tahir lured U.S. forces to the scene by tipping them off that a Taliban meeting was taking place.

He also said four Pakistanis helped Tahir carry out the strike.

"Now it's confirmed that the helicopter was shot down and it was a trap that was set by a Taliban commander," said the official, citing intelligence gathered from the area.

"The Taliban knew which route the helicopter would take," he added.

"That's the only route, so they took position on the either side of the valley on mountains and as the helicopter approached, they attacked it with rockets and other modern weapons. It was brought down by multiple shots."

The official, who spoke anonymously as he was not authorized to discuss the issue, also said President Hamid Karzai's U.S.-backed government "thinks" the attack was retaliation for the killing of Osama bin Laden.

The Taliban themselves did not make such an assertion on claiming responsibility for the attack, which took place in the Taliban-infested Sayd Abad district of Wardak province, just southwest of Kabul.

In Washington, the U.S. military said it was too early to say whether the helicopter had been lured into a trap.

"I would say any conclusion like that is premature until we conduct an investigation in terms of the facts. That's just speculation," Pentagon spokesman Col. Dave Lapan told reporters.

U.S. media reported the dead included members of the Navy's SEAL Team 6, the secretive unit behind the daring raid that killed bin Laden in Pakistan in May.

U.S. administration sources interviewed by AFP said the casualties did not include anyone who took part in the bin Laden raid on May 2.

When questioned about whether the attack was linked to a trap laid by a Taliban commander, the militia's spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said: "We have used various tactics over the past 10 years. This could also be a tactic. The informant could have been one of our comrades."

The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said the cause of the crash was still being investigated but issued a statement giving details of the moments before the fatal crash.

"The operation began as a security search for a Taliban leader responsible for insurgent operations in the nearby Tangi Valley," it said.

The first wave of ISAF ground troops exchanged fire with several insurgents with rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47s, killing several, the statement added.

"As the insurgents continued to fire, the combined force on the ground requested additional forces to assist the operation.

"Those additional personnel were inbound to the scene when the CH-47 (Chinook) carrying them crashed, killing all on board," it said.

Afghan officials said an insurgent rocket downed the helicopter, which was said to have broken into several parts after being hit.

The Pentagon said a Taliban rocket-propelled grenade was "believed" to have knocked out the chopper, which was carrying 22 Navy SEAL commandos, three Air Force special forces members and five Army personnel.

In eastern Afghanistan on Aug. 8, another helicopter made a "hard landing" in Paktya province, although no one was injured and there were no reports of insurgent fire, ISAF said.

U.S. President Barack Obama and his Afghan counterpart Karzai reaffirmed their commitment to the war "which is critical to the security of both our countries" on Aug. 7 in a telephone call following Friday's crash, the White House said.

There are currently around 140,000 foreign soldiers in Afghanistan, including about 100,000 U.S. troops.

All international combat troops are due to leave by the end of 2014, but intense violence in recent months, including a series of assassinations in the south, has raised questions about the capability of Afghan forces.


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## Patriot

In my opinion he is just trying to catch the limelight.Usually Afghan Officials can't recognize their head from their A$$.


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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

*A second helicopter belonging to the US-led NATO coalition has crashed in Paktia Province in eastern Afghanistan, killing 33 US forces on board.* per Press Tv ..( how reliable is this outlet?)


Taliban Spokesman Zabihullah Mojahid claimed responsibility for the crash, which occured in Zarmat city on Monday, saying 33 American troops were killed in the downing, a Press TV correspondent reported on Monday. 

Separately, another NATO chopper made a hard landing in the same area in eastern Paktia province late Sunday, Afghan witnesses and officials told Press TV. 

The US-led NATO forces have cordoned off the scene of the incident, witnesses said. 

The incident has reportedly left some casualties, but there are no words yet on the exact number of the killed or injured. 

The main cause of the incident is not clear yet. 

Meanwhile, the US-led alliance issued a statement and confirmed that the helicopter made an emergency landing. The statement said no one was injured and that it has launched an investigation into the incident. 

The incident came in the wake of a similar incident on Saturday, which claimed lives of 31 US forces. 

Taliban claimed responsibility for Saturday helicopter crash, but NATO said it has started an investigation into the incident. 

AO/MB/HRF
*EDIT; seems it was already referenced in post 326.*


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## JonAsad

there is another catch-

some one told the taliabns- hey would you like to kill those involved in OBL raid?-
talibans: yes
some one: ok here you go you got your revenge- Good Riddance- and plz stop making ur lives miserable as hell- let us leave afghanistan peacefully-

May the amrikan Rest in Pieces-

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## darkinsky

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> they do as they are ordered.....you can't blame them or villify them. You can blame the foreign policy makers and top-brass who sent them there if you like.
> 
> even if you dont like them, have respect for the dead.....they had families too.


 
yes, but who orders them to listen to songs like, 'die mot****fuc***'


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## CardSharp

Bangla fighter said:


> _U.S. Helo Crashed in Taliban Trap: Afghan Official_


 
Well if the Taliban can carry out a complicated operation like this, it means that the US has no hope of pacifying the country or nor any hope that the Afghan forces they trained can stand up on its own.



> _
> The senior Afghan government official told AFP on condition of anonymity that Taliban commander Qari Tahir lured U.S. forces to the scene by tipping them off that a Taliban meeting was taking place.
> 
> He also said four Pakistanis helped Tahir carry out the strike.
> 
> "Now it's confirmed that the helicopter was shot down and it was a trap that was set by a Taliban commander," said the official, citing intelligence gathered from the area.
> 
> "The Taliban knew which route the helicopter would take," he added.
> 
> "That's the only route, so they took position on the either side of the valley on mountains and as the helicopter approached, they attacked it with rockets and other modern weapons. *It was brought down by multiple shots*."_



This is an incredibly elaborate piece of planning. I thought they just got lucky as the helicopter was taking off.


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## CardSharp

darkinsky said:


> yes, but who orders them to listen to songs like, 'die mot****fuc***'


 
No one, they are by and large 19 and 20 year olds. Being young and stupid is not a structural defect. You should focus on the people who led them astray.

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## Dr. Strangelove

wao


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## Crypto

The passengers and crew of the twin-rotor CH-47 Chinook helicopter probably never saw the rocket hurtling towards them. The explosion and fiery crash in Wardak province in eastern Afghanistan early on Saturday morning killed all 38 people aboard the lumbering chopper.

For U.S. forces, it was the bloodiest single incident of the 10-year-old Afghanistan war  and possibly a sign of the insurgencys continued ability to introduce new weaponry. The attack is also a chilling reminder of the vulnerability of the United States-lead coalitions indispensable helicopters. Shock and disbelief, is how one official characterized the reaction inside the military.

The dead include: five Army crew members, 19 U.S. Navy SEALs and their three support troops, an Afghan interpreter and seven Afghan commandos plus three Air Force controllers and one military working dog. Their deaths are a reminder of the extraordinary sacrifices made by the men and women of our military and their families, President Barack Obama said.

Details of the shoot-down are slowly emerging. There will be multiple investigations, a Special Operations Command official said.

*Sometime late Friday, it appears, a team of U.S. Army Rangers got pinned down by insurgent fighters during a patrol in Wardak, a province just south of Kabul that, along with neighboring Logar province, is a major staging area for the Taliban and other insurgent groups.

The Rangers called in their Immediate Reaction Force, a helicopter-borne mobile reserve that orbits nearby during risky patrols. That day, IRF duty had fallen to the Navy SEALs and their attachments, part of the 10,000-strong Afghanistan-based Joint Special Operations Command task force that, in addition to killing Osama bin Laden in May, also conducts as many as 70 raids per day in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In 2,800 raids between April and July, JSOC captured around 2,900 insurgents and killed more than 800, military sources said. Thats twice as many raids compared to the same period a year ago.
*
*Normally, JSOC commandos ride in tricked-out helicopters  including stealth models  belonging to the Armys 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. But this weekend the SEALs hitched a ride in what was apparently a run-of-the-mill Army National Guard chopper.

With the SEALs help, the Rangers fought back against their ambushers. Eight insurgents died in the fighting, according to a Taliban spokesman. Believing the battle over, around 3 in the morning local time, the SEALs and their allies climbed back into their CH-47 for the ride home. Thats when all Hell broke loose.*

*The Taliban knew which route the helicopter would take, one unnamed Afghan official tells AFP. Thats the only route, so they took position on the either side of the valley on mountains and as the helicopter approached, they attacked it with rockets and other modern weapons.

It was a trap that was set by a Taliban commander, the official added.*

The aircraft fell to the ground in flames.

The cause of the CH-47 crash is still under investigation. The helicopter was reportedly fired on by an insurgent rocket-propelled grenade, according to a coalition press release. Which weapon  or weapons  were actually responsible for the copter coming down is not yet known. Several publications claim an insurgent Rocket-Propelled Grenade struck the helicopter.

One Army insider who spoke to Danger Room went a step further, saying the rocket may have been a special improvised model. A chopper-killer, if you will.

*The so-called Improvised Rocket-Assisted Mortar made its debut in Iraq in 2008, although not in attacks on aircraft. IRAMs combine traditional tube mortars with rocket boosters and, in many cases, remote triggers, allowing insurgents to fire them from a distance.*

IRAMs have killed several U.S. troops in Iraq over the years; in June, the weapons killed six Americans. but havent factored heavily in the Afghanistan fighting. The weapons appearance in Wardak, if confirmed, could be proof of Afghan insurgents continued ability to adapt and innovate despite mounting losses.

*Improvised rockets are notoriously inaccurate. But with bigger warheads than shoulder-fired RPGs, IRAMs are potentially much more destructive when they do hit.*

Not that it takes much to bring down a helicopter. Complex, slow and low-flying, choppers have always been vulnerable to attack from the ground. The coalition has lost hundreds of helicopters in Afghanistan over the last decade.

That the SEALs in Wardak were flying in a National Guard CH-47 probably didnt make any difference. Nothing about the aircraft would really make it more susceptible to ground fire than, say, a regular Army aircraft or a Special Ops bird, the Army insider said.

Though enhanced Special Operations helicopters boast better navigation systems and, in some cases, even stealthy outer shells, theyre no more able to absorb an unguided rocket than any other copter. And for helicopters, theres no effective countermeasure for unguided attacks besides aggressive flying, which isnt really possible while the aircraft is close to the ground and full of troops.

But in mountainous Afghanistan, a country with few roads, the coalition has little choice but to rely on defenseless helicopters for even routine transportation  to say nothing of combat ops like the SEALs doomed weekend rescue.

That places huge demands on the aircraft and their operators. This is one subject of my forthcoming book From A to B. My biggest headache is vertical lift, Army Lt. Col. Thomas Gukeisen, in 2009 the commander of a combined U.S. and Czech force in Logar, told me for the book. Vertical lift is Army jargon for choppers.

The IRAMs possible appearance in Afghanistan could make helicopters more vulnerable than they already are. At the same time, nothing short of a Herculean road-building effort  or a sudden, massive troop reduction  can quickly reduce the huge demand for rotorcraft.

In comments to reporters, NATO spokesman Brigadier General Carsten Jacobsen appeared to swat away the possibility that an IRAM was employed in the Wardak attack.

Were not seeing any specific new types of weapons on the battlefield, he said.

Whether or not an IRAM counts as something new to Jacobsen is unclear; were following up to find out. But even subtracting the IRAM, the result of that awful arithmetic is more crashed choppers and more dead coalition troops, on a regular basis until the war ends. Saturdays shootdown was an unusually bloody copter tragedy, but its hardly the first for the Afghan war. And it wont be the last.


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## Dance

Things are not looking good for Afghanistan. 

With so many bombings and killings still going shows that Afghanistan is no where to being safe, normal, or functional despite NATO efforts.


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## Battle Axe

Dance said:


> Things are not looking good for Afghanistan.
> 
> With so many bombings and killings still going shows that Afghanistan is no where to being safe, normal, or functional despite NATO efforts.


 

And all fingers point towards either the NATO or Mr Karazi. It has been a decade. And there is no significant infiltration from Pakistan, We offered them to fence or mine the border countless times but both of above were absolutely against the idea.

However, I hope peace, stability & freedom comes to Afghanistan. That's indispensable for all of us.

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## Abu Basit

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> they do as they are ordered.....you can't blame them or villify them. You can blame the foreign policy makers and top-brass who sent them there if you like.
> 
> even if you dont like them, have respect for the dead.....they had families too.



no respect for the invaders--- burn in hell Americans .

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## Oldman1

Abu Basit said:


> no respect for the invaders--- burn in hell Americans .


 
In the Taliban's mind Pakistanis should burn. Burn baby burn. No respect for Pakistani invaders.

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## mughaljee

Its mean, Taliban's, getting more sophisticated weapons ?


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## MilSpec

NATO should stop propping this crumbling corrupt puppet Karzai regime. 

Stop nation building in Afghanistan, let Afghans do it. 

Maintain Firm Vigil via Air, Bomb the hell out of AQ/Taliban/Training Camps in Afghanistan and otherwise

Stop wasting US taxpayers money on Afghanistan, Let Afghans sort their mess out.


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## Altaf Bhai

US bars media from covering return of 30 dead soldiers killed in Afganistan


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## Altaf Bhai

US is seriously gonna fcuk up the whole affpak region.


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## Patriot

mughaljee said:


> Its mean, Taliban's, getting more sophisticated weapons ?


 
No according to Bloomberg it was a RPG hit so the taliban got lucky.


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## S.M.R

I dont know what NATO / US have been doing in Afghanistan for a decade? They have been unable to control these backward people... From the everyday that passes, it is getting proved that US / NATO are losing in Afghanistan...


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## Hafizzz

Devil Soul said:


> Afghan helicopter crash kills 31 US troops
> 
> A US helicopter crash in eastern Afghanistan has killed 31 US soldiers, Afghan President Hamid Karzai's office says.
> 
> The soldiers were special forces personnel returning to base after an operation.
> 
> It is not clear how the crash happened but the Taliban have said they shot the helicopter down.
> 
> The incident marks one of the biggest single losses for US forces in Afghanistan since 2001.
> BBC News - US special forces Afghan helicopter downed &#039;by Taliban&#039;


 
So much lie about "freedom of speech/Information" in the USA :



> US bars media from covering return of 30 dead soldiers
> US bars media from covering return of 30 dead soldiers - Indian Express


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## lem34

Hafizzz said:


> So much lie about "freedom of speech/Information" in the USA :


 
I dont know how they get away with so many lies. Americans and co are consumate liars.


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## bularab

It seems that all the advanced technology of the oil-hungry-coalltion can't deal even with Russian weapon from 1950. Nice one, America.


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## CardSharp

bularab said:


> It seems that all the advanced technology of the oil-hungry-coalltion can't deal even with Russian weapon from 1950. Nice one, America.


 
We still don't know how the Helicopter was brought down. Besides the way a weapon is deployed is a lot more important the weapon itself in this case.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

those crappy old RPG-7s they use (and what many armies still use) are crude and not all-too-accurate --especially longer range... but when they do hit --then yes, they cause sufficient damage. And this Chinook made a mistake by coming in hot and fully loaded, low approach.

as per reports, the aircraft was hit by several on-target shots. It wasnt just one guy on the ground shooting a single round for the kill.

it was a textbook ''LURE & AMBUSH''


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## CardSharp

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> those crappy old RPG-7s they use (and what many armies still use) are crude and not all-too-accurate --especially longer range... but when they do hit --then yes, they cause sufficient damage. And this Chinook made a mistake by coming in hot and fully loaded, low approach.
> 
> as per reports, the aircraft was hit by several on-target shots. It wasnt just one guy on the ground shooting a single round for the kill.
> 
> it was a textbook ''LURE & AMBUSH''


 
All very logical but I am still surprised at the level of operational sophistication of this attack.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

from what i read, the taleban insurgents found some way to disseminate ''misinformation'' which ended up reaching NATO forces through some kind of channels.


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## Battle Axe

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> In case it has not been pointed out yet, the PA has also suffered chopper and troop losses from occasional 'lucky' RPG hits and AA Guns.
> 
> I don't really see this particular incident as that 'unusual'.


 

I don't recall a PA heli being downed by AA guns. Please elaborate...

And US will be thanking God that Taliban no more got those Stingers, else it did be bull's eye hits & many...


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## CardSharp

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> from what i read, the taleban insurgents found some way to disseminate ''misinformation'' which ended up reaching NATO forces through some kind of channels.


 
''some kind of channel'' has to be a US paid informant acting as a double agent. 

That is one of the biggest problems the US hasn't been able to get a handle on. They don't have anyone in the population that they can trust. It makes their intelligence unreliable and thus many of their operations counter-productive.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

CardSharp said:


> ''some kind of channel'' has to be a US paid informant acting as a double agent.
> 
> That is one of the biggest problems the US hasn't been able to get a handle on. They don't have anyone in the population that they can trust. It makes their intelligence unreliable and thus many of their operations counter-productive.


 
off topic, but remember this? :


CIA base bomber 'was double agent' - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English


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## CardSharp

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> off topic, but remember this? :
> 
> 
> CIA base bomber 'was double agent' - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English


 
Yes I most certainly do. I was thinking about that incident while I was typing the post. I even remember his chilling pre-suicide bombing video.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Afghanistan is hell on earth for anybody and everybody who tries or has tried to militarily occupy it. If not initially......then at least eventually!

history has shown this...


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## bularab

Don't bother the Taliban while they are eating... or meet your tragic end


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## CardSharp

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Afghanistan is hell on earth for anybody and everybody who tries or has tried to militarily occupy it. If not initially......then at least eventually!
> 
> history has shown this...


 
I don't believe Afghanistan is UNconquerable but it's definitely not a good idea by any stretch.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

with the Rules of Engagement (ROEs) they have to deal with, its impossible

to ''tame'' Afghanistan to their favour would require nothing short of what Webster comtemporary dictionary (and the ICJ) would label as ''genocide''


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## Battle Axe

CardSharp said:


> I don't believe Afghanistan is UNconquerable but it's definitely not a good idea by any stretch.


 

Sure. Conquering Afghanistan is as easy as said but when one wishes to consolidate the gains and goes to hold the territory, it is then the men drown from te barren hills to wreck both the conqueror and the conquered.

Ignore them should be the mantra.


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## S.M.R

CardSharp said:


> ''some kind of channel'' has to be a US paid informant acting as a double agent.
> 
> That is one of the biggest problems the US hasn't been able to get a handle on. They don't have anyone in the population that they can trust. It makes their intelligence unreliable and thus many of their operations counter-productive.


 
Or may be their own soldiers are becoming taliban sympathizers and being radicalized


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## bularab

Or just the Taliban like their food and don't want to share it with the Americans?


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## laiqs@mi

but until now Afghanistan has shown great resistance against attackers. it is only possible if you suit there people are with you. and in most of the cases it has not been the case. any aggressor has not won a war without afghan people support. and it may be relevant today.


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## CardSharp

S.M.R said:


> Or may be their own soldiers are becoming taliban sympathizers and being radicalized


 
Seriously doubt it.


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## Jango

Battle Axe said:


> I don't recall a PA heli being downed by AA guns. Please elaborate...
> 
> And US will be thanking God that Taliban no more got those Stingers, else it did be bull's eye hits & many...


 
A PA heli was damaged by small arms fire, it was a cobra, the pics you see of a cobra dangling from an Mi-17, the only case i can remember where a heli was sufficiently damaged to be rendered unflyable. The crew was well though. But no heli has been brought down, resulting in loss of life thus far AFAIK.


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## bularab

The funny thing is how Taliban insurgents are more than how many they were back to 2000.


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## CardSharp

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> with the Rules of Engagement (ROEs) they have to deal with, its impossible
> 
> to ''tame'' Afghanistan to their favour would require nothing short of what Webster comtemporary dictionary (and the ICJ) would label as ''genocide''


 
Well what the Mongols did in Russia is the penultimate counter-insurgency strategy. Kill anything that moves = no insurgents.


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## CardSharp

CardSharp said:


> Well what the Mongols did in Russia is the penultimate counter-insurgency strategy. Kill anything that moves = no insurgents.


 
Coincidently America tried the 'penultimate' strategy in Cambodia from the air.

Anything that flies on anything that moves ~ Henry Kissinger


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