# Forget Kashmir, worry about your own survival: Krishna to Pak



## Contrarian

*Forget Kashmir, worry about your own survival: Krishna to Pak*


WASHINGTON: Forget Kashmir, worry about your own survival. This was the blunt message India's external affairs minister SM Krishna gave Pakistan after Islamabad's familiar rhetoric on Kashmir at the United Nations through its foreign minister SM Qureshi scuttled an expected meeting between the two.

In some of the sharpest language emanating from India, the normally affable Krishna taunted Pakistan and its representative for using the Kashmir issue as a "ploy" to deflect attention from its parlous internal situation arising from governance issues related to home-grown terrorism and the recent floods.

Pakistan, Krishna suggested, ratcheted up the Kashmir issue whenever things were going well for India or going badly for Pakistan in a *"pattern" that had been going on for sixty-plus years*.

Indeed, for three days preceding Krishna's response, Qureshi cranked up rhetoric on Kashmir in a throwback to the 1990s, including at a UN address in which he demanded that Kashmiris should be allowed to exercise their right of self- determination "through a free, fair and impartial plebiscite under the United Nations auspices" and referred to human rights abuses in Kashmir. Earlier, he also sought US intervention in the matter.

Krishna's terse response, in which he pointedly referred to the "Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir," included telling an Asia Society audience that New Delhi had held many referendums in the state in form of universally recognized elections, an oblique dig at the military dominated neighbor.

In an earlier comment, Krishna had said Pakistan should "vacate" the part of Kashmir it occupies (as called for by the UN resolution), a point that New Delhi seldom makes, but seems to have been provoked into remembering because of Islamabad raising the stakes through Qureshi.

"Such unsolicited remarks will not and indeed, cannot, divert attention from the multiple problems Pakistan needs to tackle for the common good of its people, and of the entire region," Krishna said about Qureshi's rants on Kashmir in New York.

The indirect exchanges ensured that the two foreign ministers left New York for home without a formal meeting, and the incremental progress on the Kashmir issue made through back channels during the past decade, based on which the US is also pushing for a resolution, remains on ice.

In fact, the *growing feeling in New Delhi and Washington is that Qureshi is merely fronting for a hard-line Pakistani military which is not inclined towards peace with India because it finds dividends in continued attrition and confrontation.*

Indeed, Krishna's decision not to meet Qureshi came amid continued Pakistani resistance to act on the Mumbai terrorist attack perpetrators. In fact, it transpires that Pakistan's arrest of the key planner of the attack, Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi, is a sham.

In his book, Obama's War, *Bob Woodward quotes US National Security Advisor Jim Jones as telling Pakistani leaders that Lakhvi is not being adequately interrogated, and more shockingly, "he continues to direct LeT operations from his detention center."

The books also reveals most of the US leadership regards Pakistan Army Chief Kayani as a two-faced liar, and that Pakistan has not really given up on its sponsorship of terrorism.
*
Still, for form's sake, Krishna said Qureshi was welcome to visit India for "some of" the Commonwealth Games where they could pick up the threads of the now tattered dialogue. Before he left New York, Qureshi, who has been insisting that he wants a "result-oriented dialogue" and not a photo-op, gave no indication if he would go to New Delhi for the Games -- or talks. 
Forget Kashmir, worry about your own survival: Krishna to Pak - The Times of India

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## Leviza

indians need to forgot issues in Pakistan and listen to world to sort out internal issues in kashmir and east india ...... 

killing innocent people and kids wont help india ......

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## mjnaushad

I didn't know Krishna also troll 

*MODS: Please ban Krishna *

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## justanobserver

> sort out *internal issues* in kashmir and east india ......



Exactly! 
It's an internal issue of India, we're gonna sort it out, ULFA has almost been destroyed and Kashmir is now on track

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## karan.1970

Wowwee.. Good to see the Indian FM responding in kind.. Any one has the location of the speech transcript. ?? I liked the part about vacating Pakistani Ocupied Kashmir - as per the same UN resolution..

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## third eye

Leviza said:


> indians need to forgot issues in Pakistan and listen to world to sort out internal issues in kashmir and east india ......
> 
> killing innocent people and kids wont help india ......



We ALL need to stop telling others how to run their lives & countries ,mind our own business and stop pontificating .

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## Gentle Typhoon

Nailed it!

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## Humanist

*That was a straight punch on nose*

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## mjnaushad

This comment only shows how frustrated he was .....

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## SpArK

Pakistan can&#8217;t give lessons on democracy, human rights: India

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## karan.1970

^ How so.. Asking Pakistan to stow it means frustration?

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## silent hill

times of india, nuf said

kashmir is a disputed area according to the united nations, so what happens in kashmir is the pakistan problem, indians realize this but mr krishna is making nonsense statements just to divert the attention of audience..

yes, pakistan is facing problems, but mocking the hardships pakistan is facing will not help.

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## Humanist

look who is teaching democracy...

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## mjnaushad

BENNY said:


> Pakistan can&#8217;t give lessons on democracy, human rights: India


And India cant give lesson on cross border terrorism.....REMEMBER 71 Cross border terrorism of By Terrorist Organization RAW and INDIA.....

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## Mirza Jatt

I never thought Krishna can be as blunt as this, but perhaps the time demanded it,seeing the provocations from Pakistani foreign minister on the issue of kashmir.the best possible reply.

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## Rafael

*The books also reveals most of the US leadership regards Pakistan Army Chief Kayani as a two-faced liar, and that Pakistan has not really given up on its sponsorship of terrorism.*

Enough said! So much for cooperation and trust. I say throw the that CIA chief out of the country who is here for building"trust"!!


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## mjnaushad

raheel1 said:


> *The books also reveals most of the US leadership regards Pakistan Army Chief Kayani as a two-faced liar, and that Pakistan has not really given up on its sponsorship of terrorism.*
> 
> Enough said! So much for cooperation and trust. I say throw the that fuckard CIA chief out of the country who is here for building"trust"!!
> 
> Bloody mother fuckkkers!!!


Is this the book again.... ..... Looks like he wrote it to keep Indian Media busy....


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## Baahubali

In the current geo-political scenario, there is almost nothing Pak can hope to achieve as far as Kashmir is concerned. 

The effort of the Pakistani rulers would be better spent at addressing the various dire issues Pakistan faces today.

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## third eye

mjnaushad said:


> And India cant give lesson on cross border terrorism.....REMEMBER 71 Cross border terrorism of By Terrorist Organization RAW and INDIA.....



Wonder if India took a cue from Pak "infiltrators" who almost reached Srinagar in 48.

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## mjnaushad

third eye said:


> Wonder if India took a cue from Pak "infiltrators" who almost reached Srinagar in 48.


That was an open attack not infiltration.....


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## Frankenstein

piddy chadha hi di, akhir kar Pakistan ne

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## Baahubali

Frankenstein said:


> piddy chadha hi di, akhir kar Pakistan ne



If I go by your logic,

piddy chadha hi di, akhir kar Iran ne  






http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Ahmadinejad--9-11-was--orchestrated-/687606

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/US-Walks-Out-on-Ahmadinejad-UN-Speech-103660664.html

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## Frankenstein

Baahubali said:


> If I go by your logic,
> 
> piddy chadha hi di, akhir kar Iran ne



ye Iran kha se agya beech me, istar han tu India ko har kisi ne Commonwealth games me piddy chadhai ha


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## Dr sim

Pakistan has to change its attitude, see where it has got them now. after 60 years of independence they consistently make to the list of top 10 failed states.

No offense but meddling with India is not going to get u guys anywhere....

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## Baahubali

Frankenstein said:


> ye Iran kha se agya beech me, istar han tu India ko har kisi ne Commonwealth games me piddy chadhai ha



 Ok 

Chalo ab bas karo bahut ho gaya

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Looks like this time he wore pants instead of a lungi.... the gas reached his brain too much.... frustrastion is a sad phenomena.


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## Baahubali

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> .... *frustrastion is a sad phenomena...*



*...And your post reflects that!*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Dr sim said:


> Pakistan has to change its attitude, see where it has got them now. after* 60 years of independence they consistently make to the list of top 10 failed states.*No offense but meddling with India is not going to get u guys anywhere....



60 years and more then half ur population 

Kashmir is a disputed territory.... better understand it.


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## rsingh

Leviza said:


> indians need to forgot issues in Pakistan and listen to world to sort out internal issues in kashmir and east india ......
> 
> killing innocent people and kids wont help india ......



 
True words of wisdom from a nation responsible for destroying Iraq, Afghanistan , Vietnam, Cambodia and not to forget a whole race. 

-----------------------------------------------

And Mr Krishna pretty much Nailed it! *Sir*

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## Leviza

Dr sim said:


> Pakistan has to change its attitude, see where it has got them now. after 60 years of independence they consistently make to the list of top 10 failed states.
> 
> No offense but meddling with India is not going to get u guys anywhere....



I Think India need to change thier attitude towards killing innocent kashmiri people. from last 60 years how many innocents you have killed in kashmir and how long people like you feel proud after on the killings......

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL MY COUNTRY A FAIL STATE ..... mind your words .... 
India is the biggest FAILED state if you see in terms of human violations, Killing innocent people, most indians earn just 2p a day and you are calling my country fail state?????? 

i am telling you india needs to forgot kashmir.......... what ever condition we are in we can not forget kashmir .. understand it sooner or later........


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## T-Faz

Dr sim said:


> Pakistan has to change its attitude, see where it has got them now. after 60 years of independence they consistently make to the list of top 10 failed states.
> 
> No offense but meddling with India is not going to get u guys anywhere....



Another expert turns up with his limited knowledge and lack of understanding.

The only time that we have made that failed state list is during the last few years and late 90's. The reason for that was due to our ineffective government and their lackluster policies. Pakistan prior to that had always done exceptionally well, in the 60's, Pakistan was the least corrupt and most progressive nation in Asia. It continued to do well till the late 80's when certain aspects hurt us negatively.

We always had high economic growth and continued to do well even with problems in our neighborhood during Musharrafs time. While we were doing well, our big neighbor was undergoing one disaster after another, from emergency rules to assassinations and state wide riots. That defined a failed period for you as the current predicament of ours is a failed period for us.

No offence, but you do not know anything.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Lets see the reaction of Pak F.O.


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## Von Hölle

I wonder why mods are letting this troll fest begin..why not nib it in the bud?


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## Baahubali

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> 60 years and more then half ur population
> 
> Kashmir is a disputed territory.... better understand it.



Ok 'understood' sir...aur bolo?

No matter how much emotional you get. No matter how much you shout. No matter how much you run around the world saying otherwise. No matter what you do...

J&K was with India 63 years ago.
J&K is with India now.
J&K is going to remain with India in the foreseeable future, Inshallah. 

Now it is you who has to decide whether you want to spend your time, money and evergy on a lost cause or on a cause which can still be salvaged...

Be wise, choose wisely. 

History repeats itself...for those who refuse to learn from it.

So learn from history my friend. You are already in a very bad state, why do you want to worsen the situation and bring further suffering upon your country and your people?

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## karan.1970

Leviza said:


> I Think India need to change thier attitude towards killing innocent kashmiri people. from last 60 years how many innocents you have killed in kashmir and how long people like you feel proud after on the killings......
> 
> YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL MY COUNTRY A FAIL STATE ..... mind your words ....
> India is the biggest FAILED state if you see in terms of human violations, Killing innocent people, most indians earn just 2p a day and you are calling my country fail state??????
> 
> i am telling you india needs to forgot kashmir.......... what ever condition we are in we can not forget kashmir .. understand it sooner or later........



Continue this path and you will not need to forget Kashmir. Because your remembering it or not will lose significance for India. You will have many more problems on hand. See where last 5 years have taken you and it seems to be getting worse every year.

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## footmarks

Leviza said:


> *I Think India need to change thier attitude *




Man, you think a lot. Take a break and do something.



Leviza said:


> *YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL MY COUNTRY A FAIL STATE ..... mind your words ....
> India is the biggest FAILED state*


[/QUOTE]

 Thanks for giving me a good laugh, I was feeling really p!$$ed off over my boss today.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

rsingh said:


> Pakistan cannot feed its own children but wants to adopt some more.



hahahaha..... not to adopt .
kashimiries are our brothers and sisters children of same motherland Pakisan


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## Qasim_Yousuf

now how will Mr.Qureshi respond??...is he speechless now??

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## footmarks

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> not on me ......... kashmiries indirectly ...
> if u use a little energy to think.........



I was not knowing that you are the sole representative of kashmiris.
But I knew that Gilani is a stooge,you confirmed it now. GOI should directly talk to you instead.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

every one is patriot and it is good to be patriot but one should be realistic too.....
reality is that people in our region need peace and prosperity ....
so issue of kashmir ,the main bone of contention, should be solved according to wishes of people of kashmir........
i don,t force kashmir to be part pakistan but i force and raise my voice for their freedom...

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

both india and pakistan are failed states according to me because people are suffering on both sides........

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## T-Faz

*Either comment constructively on the subject being discussed or do not post at all.

Childish one liners and nonsense posts will not be tolerated.*


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## Agnostic_Indian

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> every one is patriot and it is good to be patriot but one should be realistic too.....
> reality is that people in our region need peace and prosperity ....
> so issue of kashmir ,the main bone of contention, should be solved according to wishes of people of kashmir........
> i don,t force kashmir to be part pakistan but i force and raise my voice for their freedom...



For that certain conditions had to be met long before.


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## AR

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> ohhhh.......... was u with him............ how u come to know ...
> come on, tell indian media and projet this propaganda...



it is already been told to him that he should be used to of this humiliation ... until unless he doesn't mind his own business 


cheers to krishna

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## HAIDER

That's very surprising,,,Indian taking this guy "Bob Woodward" very serious who been famous in journalist circle as cut and paste book publisher. A guy who has non of his own research, but taking news from left and right and publish books...

As far far as Krishna statement, it quite useless statement which just want to give cover to recent mass killing of Kashmiri unarmed protesters....
Last thing, these present economic scenario won't affect Pakistan because more then 70 percent population of Pakistan lives in villages, where they have no issue of food and daily needs. This present economic crisis is only emerge from corruption and economic meltdown in the region..


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## SMC

I like how Indians in this topic use correlation as causation. So much for the logical and rational nation. 

Anyhow, the Indian FM is using irrelevant reason fallacy as his argument. The logical Indians probably haven't seen this.

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## karan.1970

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> both india and pakistan are failed states according to me because people are suffering on both sides........



That by the way is not definition of a failed state. A failed state is where the chances of things getting worse are significantly higher than things remaining same or getting better.

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## SMC

karan.1970 said:


> That by the way is not definition of a failed state. A failed state is where the chances of things getting worse are significantly higher than things remaining same or getting better.



Nope, not really. It's where the government has no control over the country. Somalia is a good example. The failed states list uses media articles (red flag) to derive their rankings, plus uses their own definition of failed state.

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## Awesome

Was there any point to saying this to Pakistan other than causing insult? Do you really think we're going to heed Indian 'advice'?

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## Markus

Asim Aquil said:


> Was there any point to saying this to Pakistan other than causing insult? Do you really think we're going to heed Indian 'advice'?



Those words by SM Krishna were meant for the world audience at UNGA. it was not "*only*" for Pakistan, it never was.

On the contrary, UNGA is the place to show everyone of what you think of others and this is what Ahmadinejad also did.

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## HAIDER

Well, it more like Indian counter strike on Qurashi stance on deteriorating condition of Kashmir valley.

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## Awesome

So we shouldn't take it personally, is that it?


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## Markus

Asim Aquil said:


> So we shouldn't take it personally, is that it?



Do you guys ever do?

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## chadha

silent hill said:


> times of india, nuf said
> 
> kashmir is a disputed area according to the united nations, so what happens in kashmir is the pakistan problem, indians realize this but mr krishna is making nonsense statements just to divert the attention of audience..
> 
> yes, pakistan is facing problems, but mocking the hardships pakistan is facing will not help.



kashmir is an integral part of india so u guys have no right to comment on it as we in your internal issues

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## karan.1970

Its the standard tit for tat.. Pakistan says something, India responds.. Pakistan responds back, and so on till India and Pakistan tire out or another issue takes over...

That reminds me.. It was astonishing the speed at which Kashmir issue went backstage (in the world media as well as this forum) during the last 1 week of CWG fiasco. Shows how fickle we all are...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Baahubali said:


> Ok 'understood' sir...aur bolo?
> 
> No matter how much emotional you get. No matter how much you shout. No matter how much you run around the world saying otherwise. No matter what you do...
> 
> *[J&K was with India 63 years ago*.



Now lets take a reality tour..

No it was a majority muslim state ruled by a non muslim ruler.
It had its right to accession to india or Pakistan ... just like Junagarh(which wanted to become a part of Pakistan ..but was occupied by india),....same goes fo hyderabad ...



> J&K is with India now.



Wont remain occupied by india till long... just like 57% Kashmir tht we liberated in 47-48...

PAKISTANI FLAGS ARE BEING HOISTED IN iOK!




> J&K is going to remain with India in the foreseeable future, Inshallah.



Wet dreams..... do u believe in Allah?...coz he despises opressers like india...




> Now it is you who has to decide whether you want to spend your time, money and evergy on a* lost cause *or on a cause which can still be salvaged...




 My friend open ur eyes.




> Be wise, choose wisely.



Thanks.



> History repeats itself...for those who refuse to learn from it.


India has never remained united... occupiers have always occupied it etc... Think again.




> So learn from history my friend. You are already in a very bad state, why do you want to worsen the situation and bring further suffering upon your country and your people?



We are handling terrorists.... go look after the worse situation in india where farmers are commiting mass suicide etc.... ur economy has no trickledown effect.... rich r getting richer..poor r dying.

Are u threating Pakistan with suffering? Pal.... chose ur words and actions wisely.... go for a B.S surgical strike and expect a heavy bombardment on delhi.

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## Areesh

The old guy is frustrated. Is ki shadi karwao. Sub theek ho jaye ga.

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## Swift

HAIDER said:


> That's very surprising,,,Indian taking this guy "Bob Woodward" very serious who been famous in journalist circle as cut and paste book publisher. A guy who has non of his own research, but taking news from left and right and publish books...
> 
> As far far as Krishna statement, it quite useless statement which just want to give cover to recent mass killing of Kashmiri unarmed protesters....
> Last thing, these present economic scenario won't affect Pakistan because more then 70 percent population of Pakistan lives in villages, where they have no issue of food and daily needs. This present economic crisis is only emerge from corruption and economic meltdown in the region..



So true these 70% dont need electricity, there kids dont need education, water for irrigation , medicine.

Life is so different when u are in Amrica isnt it.

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## HAIDER

chadha said:


> kashmir is an integral part of india so u guys have no right to comment on it as we in your internal issues


If it makes you happy....like always,..obsession never ends, people shouting for freedom but Indian govt still in love with it decade old obsession...

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## Illusive

Slowly up the ante to fulfill the ultimate goal, thats what happening here. First Obama and now Krishna. I hope these strong statements are backed up by actions. 

Now what Pakistan? still time left to take the right turn.

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## silent hill

Frankenstein said:


> ye Iran kha se agya beech me, istar han tu India ko har kisi ne Commonwealth games me piddy chadhai ha



what is piddy mister

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## Areesh

Markus said:


> Do you guys ever do?



No we never did.


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## karan.1970

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Wont remain occupied by india till long... just like 57% Kashmir tht we liberated in 47-48...


The area in J&K you captured was while Kashmir was an independent princely state. Once it acceeded to India, your terrorists were stopped dead in their tracks.




Pakistani Nationalist said:


> PAKISTANI FLAGS ARE BEING HOISTED IN iOK!


On an Indian pole 

Anyone dialing into J&K from anywhere in the world (including Pakistan) prefixes the country code +91. 



Pakistani Nationalist said:


> India has never remained united... occupiers have always occupied it etc... Think again.


That was while Pakistan was a part of India. Once that got separated, its Pakistan that is getting occupied all the time. Sometimes by Taliban and some times by American forces who come to bomb Taliban..





Pakistani Nationalist said:


> We are handling terrorists.... go look after the worse situation in india where farmers are commiting mass suicide etc.... ur economy has no trickledown effect.... rich r getting richer..poor r dying.



Thanks for the economics lesson. Give it to your Finace minister. May be it will avoid the need for the next bailout like 2008



Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Are u threating Pakistan with suffering? Pal.... chose ur words and actions wisely.... go for a B.S surgical strike and expect a heavy bombardment on delhi.



No surgical strike is needed. Pakistan and its citizens are doing more damage to Pakistan than any Indian or American strike can do..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Swift said:


> So true these 70% dont need electricity, there kids dont need education, water for irrigation , medicine.
> 
> Life is so different when u are in Amrica isnt it.



Wat makes u think tht? even if we talk abt poverty in Pakistan its 17% while more then hALF of ur indian population is poor another 100 million more became poor...60% of ur middle class in slightly above poverty line...


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## SMC

Illusive said:


> Slowly up the ante to fulfill the ultimate goal, thats what happening here. First Obama and now Krishna. I hope these strong statements are backed up by actions.
> 
> Now what Pakistan? still time left to take the right turn.





Oh goodness me, the delusion is reaching epic levels.


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## Illusive

SMC said:


> Oh goodness me, the delusion is reaching epic levels.



You can only laugh on your misery now. These delusions are becoming a reality, if you still ignore it, who cares.

Paranoia is a disease, first symptoms- uncontrolled laughter.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

karan.1970 said:


> The area in J&K you captured was while Kashmir was an independent princely state. Once it acceeded to India, your *terrorists *were stopped dead in their tracks.



Watch ur filt.y mouth.... stopped dead? hy was nehru running to UN bagging for a ceasefire and promising a refrendum? while Pak army was sitting in ladakh?




> On an Indian pole



*Pakistani Jhanda with a Pakistani Danda... thts why delhis ... is hurting like hell*.... so dont try to satisfy ur ego.... see the BBC report abt it 
Go and check out the PakistaniJHANDA AND DANDA  its pretty BIG.


> Anyone dialing into J&K from anywhere in the world (including Pakistan) prefixes the country code +91.



Everybdy called british occupied inda... as british india..Heck now even the world calls iOK DISPUTED..


> That was while Pakistan was a part of India. Once that got separated,



How many princely states were there when india was created?how many did goi occupy?....  Read history.



> its Pakistan that is getting occupied all the time. Sometimes by Taliban



A small area tht was retaken frm terrorist ws whole Pakistan?.... wat do u have to say abt Moists,assamese,nagas,naxalite etc.... they have occupied india havent they?



> and some times by American forces who come to bomb Taliban..



So when did they occupy Pakistan? in ur wet dreams?




> Thanks for the economics lesson. Give it to your Finace minister. May be it will avoid the need for the next bailout like 2008



Why shinning india slogan not working with u?




> No surgical strike is needed. Pakistan and its citizens are doing more damage to Pakistan than any Indian or American strike can do..




Lol surigal strikes.... my arse.

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## SMC

Illusive said:


> You can only laugh on your misery now. These delusions are becoming a reality, if you still ignore it, who cares.
> 
> Paranoia is a disease, first symptoms- uncontrolled laughter.



They're becoming a reality? What did Obama say? How is Krishna relevant in anyway since very few care about what he has to say here? That was your whole argument.

As far as diseases are concerned, well a result of delusion is that what you believe is true despite having very little to support it.

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## SEAL

Can Krishna walk freely in the streets of Kashmir ?

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## Baahubali

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Now lets take a reality tour..
> 
> No it was a majority muslim state ruled by a non muslim ruler.
> It had its right to accession to india or Pakistan ... just like Junagarh(which wanted to become a part of Pakistan ..but was occupied by india),....same goes fo hyderabad ...



J&K was under territorial boundaries and military control of India and as long as that remains so, I'm fine with n number of Junagadh/Hyderabad theories you put forward.

Junagadh/Hyderabad are not going to change anything on ground today are they?



Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Wont remain occupied by india till long... just like 57% Kashmir tht we liberated in 47-48...
> 
> PAKISTANI FLAGS ARE BEING HOISTED IN iOK!



And how do you plan to do that, kindly enlighten me...

1. Jihadis? Sorry been there done that...and you failed with your own policies backfiring and causing you more harm than good.

For example, Mumbai caused you more harm than it did to India. India lost 200 people but Pakistan lost its 'izzat' in UNSC with its organisations geeting banned and even 'all weather ally' China refusing to help.

2. War? LoL do we even need to talk about that?

3. Diplomacy? Diplomacy derives strength from economic and military might and sadly for Pakistan, it has neither in todays world as compared to India.

4. Stone pelters/protesters? Cmon man don't be naive, you cannot seriously hope to win a fight against a state which has nearly unlimited amount of resources at its disposal by pitting stone pelters against it can you?

5. Geelani? Seperatists? Don't worry, we have our own share of ruthless conniving politicians to take care of these seperatist clowns and so far we have done well. 

Now please tell me what other weapon do you have in your inventory? 

You've tried everything and you have not succeeded. 

As far as the part of Kashmir that is under your control is concerned, keep it, we do not want it as long as we control the rivers. P0K is only a bargaining chip for us.



Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Wet dreams..... do u believe in Allah?...coz he despises opressers like india...



East.....(talk about oppression huh?)




Pakistani Nationalist said:


> My friend open ur eyes.



I did, it's your turn now.




Pakistani Nationalist said:


> India has never remained united... occupiers have always occupied it etc... Think again.



LoL Are you threatening me with your Ghazwa-e-Hind Fantasy?

History repeats itself for those who refuse to learn from their mistakes.

We did learn quite a few things, did you?



Pakistani Nationalist said:


> We are handling terrorists.... go look after the worse situation in india where farmers are commiting mass suicide etc.... ur economy has no trickledown effect.... rich r getting richer..poor r dying.



That is only partially true. Situation is better today that it was earlier...

"He is the most unfortunate whose today is not better than his yesterday"---Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.)

Our today is better than our yesterday, is yours?



Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Are u threating Pakistan with suffering? Pal.... chose ur words and actions wisely.... go for a B.S surgical strike and expect a heavy bombardment on delhi.



LoL who said India is threatening Pakistan? You are in self-destruct mode buddy you do not need us to destroy you. You have proved that you are pretty good when it comes to that!

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## Illusive

SMC said:


> They're becoming a reality? What did Obama say? How is Krishna relevant in anyway since very few care about what he has to say here? That was your whole argument.
> 
> As far as diseases are concerned, well a result of delusion is that what you believe is true despite having very little to support it.



I dont need to support what i say. You can see that for yourself. Don't you think drone attacks have increased coupled with copters attacking the haqqani network. Don't you see where US stands now. But still its too early to judge, but things are really getting serious.

War of words do take place, but airstrikes........its a totally different game plan then. You can take this lightly and make fun or think of what your govt. might do next.

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## SMC

Illusive said:


> I dont need to support what i say. You can see that for yourself. Don't you think drone attacks have increased coupled with copters attacking the haqqani network. Don't you see where US stands now. But still its too early to judge, but things are really getting serious.
> 
> War of words do take place, but airstrikes........its a totally different game plan then. You can this lightly and make fun or think of what your govt. might do next.



Drone strikes are done with Pakistan government consent has that argument is irrelevant. As far as copter strikes are concerned, US did a manned raid in 2008. Kiyani told them something and it never happened again.

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## karan.1970

fox said:


> Can Krishna walk freely in the streets of Kashmir ?



More freely than your leaders in Karachi..

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## SMC

karan.1970 said:


> More freely than your leaders in Karachi..



No offense, but that requires a facepalm.


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## LaBong

wow! I only can say wow! since when Indians ministers learned how to talk!


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## Illusive

SMC said:


> Drone strikes are done with Pakistan government consent has that argument is irrelevant. As far as copter strikes are concerned, US did a manned raid in 2008. Kiyani told them something and it never happened again.



And the recent ones by NATO. And if the govt. doesnt gives a nod to the Americans, they won't attack right. Your govt. is under pressure to accept it, no sovereign country would allow it.

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## karan.1970

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Watch ur filt.y mouth....


I will let you do that for me.. 




Pakistani Nationalist said:


> stopped dead? hy was nehru running to UN bagging for a ceasefire and promising a refrendum? while Pak army was sitting in ladakh?



The day Maharaja acceded to India








Day of ceasefire






See for your self. Pakistani irregulars (happy?) actually lost areas around the Kashmir valley and Srinagar after India intervened




Pakistani Nationalist said:


> A small area tht was retaken frm terrorist ws whole Pakistan?.... wat do u have to say abt Moists,assamese,nagas,naxalite etc.... they have occupied india havent they?



Nope.. Its not retaken at all. 

Maoists are our own citizens.. So are nagas and naxalites. Where as by the admission of all Pakistani members, the Taliban occupying a large part of KP are afghans, Uzbeks, Tajaks etc..





Pakistani Nationalist said:


> So when did they occupy Pakistan? in ur wet dreams?


Technically they dont. They just come in.. Kill a bunch of guys including your civilians and go back. At will..





Pakistani Nationalist said:


> I said NO SURGICAL STRIKES NEEDED..

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## S.U.R.B.

Illusive said:


> *Slowly up the ante to fulfill the ultimate goal*, thats what happening here. First Obama and now Krishna. I hope these strong statements are backed up by actions.
> 
> *Now what Pakistan? still time left to take the right turn.*



You are too much optimistic.....based on some fancy thoughts.

Let me show you how optimistic we are...

We have taken a turn and the road goes to Dehli.

Chill.

@SMC

like this.


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## SMC

Illusive said:


> And the recent ones by NATO. And if the govt. doesnt gives a nod to the Americans, they won't attack right. Your govt. is under pressure to accept it, no sovereign country would allow it.



No country would allow it publicly, but privately if it's in their interests then they probably don't care as it makes their job easier.


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## Illusive

S.U.R.B. said:


> You are too much optimistic.....based on some fancy thoughts.
> 
> Let me show you how optimistic we are...
> 
> We have taken a turn and the road goes to Dehli.
> 
> Chill.
> 
> @SMC
> 
> like this.



You can facepalm yourself, for the politicians who have left your country in a lurch. They like Indian affairs more than their own countries. Thats what Krishna said.

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## Illusive

SMC said:


> No country would allow it publicly, but privately if it's in their interests then they probably don't care as it makes their job easier.



If you think thats good for your country then be it. It doesn't matter who does it as long as the terrorists organizations is destroyed, isn't it?

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## S.U.R.B.

Illusive said:


> You can facepalm yourself, for the politicians who have left your country in a lurch. They like Indian affairs more than their own countries. Thats what Krishna said.



oh yeah yeah save these words for the next time.I have a feeling that Mr.Krishna will be a _man on fire_ for sometime.


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## SMC

Illusive said:


> If you think thats good for your country then be it. It doesn't matter who does it as long as the terrorists organizations is destroyed, isn't it?



Yes. ISI provides intelligence for drone attacks. At least that's what happened with drone strikes on Baitullah and Hakimullah.

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## karan.1970

SMC said:


> No offense, but that requires a facepalm.



None taken, but more people got killed in unabated violence in Karachi than in Kashmir in last 3 months..

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## SMC

karan.1970 said:


> None taken, but more people got killed in unabated violence in Karachi than in Kashmir in last 3 months..



Mostly gangsters killing other gangsters. Fraction of the involved were civilians.


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## Illusive

S.U.R.B. said:


> oh yeah yeah save these words for the next time.I have a feeling that Mr.Krishna will be a _man on fire_ for sometime.



The report clearly says he was provoked, Krishna isn't the fiery style politician. Though whatever he said was a surprise, *and right*.

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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> None taken, but more people got killed in unabated violence in Karachi than in Kashmir in last 3 months..



And all over India in murders and other crimes. The number would definitely be very high as compare to Karachi and IOK.

You made a flawed assumption buddy.

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## kingdurgaking

Mr Qureshi would have thought that current kashmir issue would have made our minister to sit quite by keeping his hands on his face... he failed to understand that Mr Krishna is very intelligent and will give him befitting reply... hence forth the stone he throwed on us bounced back to him... It is all Mr Qureshi fault to get into this kind of situation.. This would have really put him in shameful position infront of other leaders...

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## Illusive

Areesh said:


> And all over India in murders and other crimes. The number would definitely be very high as compare to Karachi and IOK.
> 
> You made a flawed assumption buddy.



And what kind of assumption is this, you are comparing a city with a country and that too 4 times bigger than yours.

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## Areesh

Illusive said:


> And what kind of assumption is this, you are comparing a city with a country and that too 4 times bigger than yours.



Ok than compare mumbai with IOK.


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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> None taken, but more people got killed in unabated violence in Karachi than in Kashmir in last 3 months..



Or you guys can compare AJK with IOK and tell us that whether 100+ or more people are killed in AJK by security forces in a month or 6 months or even a year. 

That would be suitable comparison.

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## Von Hölle

Areesh said:


> Or you guys can compare AJK with IOK and tell us that whether 100+ or more people are killed in AJK by security forces in a month or 6 months or even a year.
> 
> That would be suitable comparison.



Why?? do people living in Karachi some how have lesser right to live than people living in J&K? 

It does not concern you when 100 plus people can die in karchi in less than 3 days, but when 100 ppl die in Kashmir in 3 months..suddenly everybody gets a fit of human rights?..C'mon gimee a break!!

These are just crocodile tears, when you can't stop such things happening on your own turf ..what right do you have to question others ?

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## karan.1970

SMC said:


> Mostly gangsters killing other gangsters. Fraction of the involved were civilians.



Similarly, Sec forces controlling rioters .Fraction of the involved were truely bystanders..

But both situations are dangerous.. In Karachi, most of the action was actually politicians killing politicians. That makes it more difficult for political leaders to visit the place. Isnt it?

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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> And all over India in murders and other crimes. The number would definitely be very high as compare to Karachi and IOK.
> 
> You made a flawed assumption buddy.



No sir.. The Karachi incidents are not unrelated homicides as I responded to Agno earlier. They were targeted sectarian/political attacks sometimes with grenades..

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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Or you guys can compare AJK with IOK and tell us that whether 100+ or more people are killed in AJK by security forces in a month or 6 months or even a year.
> 
> That would be suitable comparison.



I wouldnt know since Pakistan has an international media clamp down in PO K. For all anyone knows thousands may have been killed without the news leaking out..

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## SMC

karan.1970 said:


> Similarly, Sec forces controlling rioters .Fraction of the involved were truely bystanders..
> 
> But both situations are dangerous.. In Karachi, most of the action was actually politicians killing politicians. That makes it more difficult for political leaders to visit the place. Isnt it?



Not politicians per se, but people working for political parties.


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## BlackenTheSky

On one note,i'll agree with krishna.


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## Storm Force

Pakistans are looking to publicise Kashmir internationally by stoking up demands in New York. and United Nations. They have been at this for 60 years. 

YET NOT ONE SINGLE COUNTRY INCLUDING USA USSR CHINA OR EUROPE has offered to help Pakistan. 

And now the Western World is virtually at War with Islam Pakistan can demand action, make statements,,, BUT THE WORLD and especially USA are not listening 

"nothing is going to happen in Kashmir dispute" 

AND I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT TOO NOW

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Storm Force said:


> Pakistans are looking to publicise Kashmir internationally by stoking up demands in New York. and United Nations. They have been at this for 60 years.
> 
> * YET NOT ONE SINGLE COUNTRY INCLUDING USA USSR CHINA OR EUROPE has offered to help Pakistan. *
> 
> And now the* Western World is virtually at War with Islam Pakistan can demand action, make statements*,,, BUT THE WORLD and especially USA are not listening
> 
> "nothing is going to happen in Kashmir dispute"
> 
> AND I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT TOO NOW




Ur so smart. USSR...wats chinas stance on kashmir issue? does USA accpet IOK as indian territory? where is USSR?

How many young kashmiris are being murdered by indians daily? where are Pakistani flags being hoisted?

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## karan.1970

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Ur so smart. USSR...wats chinas stance on kashmir issue? does USA accpet IOK as indian territory? where is USSR?
> 
> How many young kashmiris are being murdered by indians daily? where are Pakistani flags being hoisted?



You still dial +91 before the city code for Kashmir.. Rest all is immaterial..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

karan.1970 said:


> You still dial +91 before the city code for Kashmir.. Rest all is immaterial..



Watever sails ur boat... 60 years back we took 57&#37; next time the 43%.

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## WHF

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> hahahaha..... not to adopt .
> *kashimiries are our brothers and sisters children of same motherland Pakisan*



arrey **** re..ye kisne keh diya tumse??by the way ur free to take away all ur brothers and sisters from my motherland india(kashmir to kanyakumari) to ur mother land pakistan..


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## WHF

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Watever sais ur boat... 60 years back we took 57% next time the 43%.



Thats the spirit bro, keep on trying ..Atleast this time we will have a valid reason to test whether ur nukes are fizzies or they work for real..


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## Omar1984

Storm Force said:


> Pakistans are looking to publicise Kashmir internationally by stoking up demands in New York. and United Nations. They have been at this for 60 years.
> 
> YET NOT ONE SINGLE COUNTRY INCLUDING USA USSR CHINA OR EUROPE has offered to help Pakistan.
> 
> And now the Western World is virtually at War with Islam Pakistan can demand action, make statements,,, BUT THE WORLD and especially USA are not listening
> 
> "nothing is going to happen in Kashmir dispute"
> 
> AND I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT TOO NOW



If the world is not listening, how come no one walked out of the room when FM of Pakistan was making his speech about Kashmir, even india was sitting in their seats listening to FM Qureshi.

Many parts of the world walked out when Mr Ahmadinejad was talking but not a single person walked out when FM Qureshi was talking at the UN.


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## StingRoy

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Watever sais ur boat... 60 years back we took 57% next time the 43%.



I think now that India should have just gone ahead and recaptured the rest of Kashmir instead of approaching UN if it treated it a part of its sovereign territory. We should have never allowed you to retain control over P0K and GB. If you start arguing on those lines we also have the same liberty, but the reality is different isn't it.


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## StingRoy

Omar1984 said:


> ...Many parts of the world walked out when Mr Ahmadinejad was talking but not a single person walked out when FM Qureshi was talking at the UN.



Please don't start comparing the highly respected "Makhmood I'manutjob" with SM Krishna.


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## karan.1970

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Watever sails ur boat... 60 years back we took 57% next time the 43%.



Do you really believe it.. I responded with map to you.. Go thru it and face reality. Including the one of 1971 and 1984


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## karan.1970

Omar1984 said:


> If the world is not listening, how come no one walked out of the room when FM of Pakistan was making his speech about Kashmir, even india was sitting in their seats listening to FM Qureshi.
> 
> Many parts of the world walked out when Mr Ahmadinejad was talking but not a single person walked out when FM Qureshi was talking at the UN.



So thats your measure of success now. People not bored enough to walk out. ??

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## Omar1984

This was a very poor response made by Krishna. 

FM Qureshi's speech in the UN focused on the human rights abuses committed in India Occupied Kashmir and the repression of the Kashmiri people by indian armed forces.


Notice Krishna did not respond to FM Qureshis statement that he made especially that more than a hundred protesters have been killed in India Occupied Kashmir by indian armed forces in just 3 months.


Again indians are closing their eyes and ears about Kashmir when theres a huge dispute that needs to be fixed.


Here is what FM Qureshi said:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/74518-pak-slams-indian-repression-ihk.html


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## karan.1970

Omar1984 said:


> This was a very poor response made by Krishna.
> 
> FM Qureshi's speech in the UN focused on the human rights abuses committed in India Occupied Kashmir and the repression of the Kashmiri people by indian armed forces.
> 
> 
> Notice Krishna did not respond to FM Qureshis statement that he made especially that more than a hundred protesters have been killed in India Occupied Kashmir by indian armed forces in just 3 months.
> 
> 
> Again indians are closing their eyes and ears about Kashmir when theres a huge dispute that needs to be fixed.
> 
> 
> Here is FM Qureshi said:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/74518-pak-slams-indian-repression-ihk.html



I think he responded very well. 

He told the Pakistani FM that its none of his business and told him to go and manage his own country and live up to Pakistani committment to prevent terrorists from using Pakistani soil as safe havens..

There was no need to lend any legitimacy to the specifics of Quereshi's speech by responding to them. 

What Quereshi said got treated as what it was.. 

Well, at least no one walked out...

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## Omar1984

karan.1970 said:


> I think he responded very well.
> 
> He told the Pakistani FM that its none of his business and told him to go and manage his own country and live up to Pakistani committment to prevent terrorists from using Pakistani soil as safe havens..
> 
> There was no need to lend any legitimacy to the specifics of Quereshi's speech by responding to them.
> 
> What Quereshi said got treated as what it was..
> 
> Well, at least no one walked out...




*KASHMIR WILL ALWAYS BE PAKISTAN'S BUSINESS!!!!*

Pakistanis will always side with the Kashmiri people and will always speak out when violations of human rights are committed in India Occupied Kashmir (IOK) on the Kashmiri people.

Kashmir is a DISPUTED teritory between Pakistan and india, and what happens in Kashmir is our business.

Pakistanis can not just watch unarmed Kashmiris get killed by indian armed forces and keep silent. You indians dont care that innocent Kashmiris are being killed, but Pakistanis care.

Krishna did not repsond to FM Qureshi's statements which were focused on Kashmiri repression in IOK.


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## Urbanized Greyhound

Omar1984 said:


> This was a very poor response made by Krishna.
> 
> *FM Qureshi's speech in the UN focused on the human rights abuses committed in India Occupied Kashmir and the repression of the Kashmiri people by indian armed forces.*
> 
> 
> *Notice Krishna did not respond to FM Qureshis statement that he made especially that more than a hundred protesters have been killed in India Occupied Kashmir by indian armed forces in just 3 months.*
> Again indians are closing their eyes and ears about Kashmir when theres a huge dispute that needs to be fixed.
> 
> 
> Here is what FM Qureshi said:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/74518-pak-slams-indian-repression-ihk.html



sure and what about the terrorist activities .....the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri pandits in the valley.....their human rights are not to be considered ?

Why respond to a question by a Pakistani minister about an Internal affair of India..?

should we now start questioning about the Thousands of civilians massacred in the ongoing War against T in Pakistan...?

the Instigators of the riots and stone pelting are being paid to stir up trouble by external agencies .....should we start naming them and internationally isolate them with proof...?

the choices are quite simple ....either we choose a mutually destructive path of confrontation , one which is guaranteed to further impoverish Pakistan or we choose to move on......

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## karan.1970

Omar1984 said:


> *KASHMIR WILL ALWAYS BE PAKISTAN'S BUSINESS!!!!*
> 
> Pakistanis will always side with the Kashmiri people and will always speak out when violations of human rights are committed in India Occupied Kashmir (IOK) on the Kashmiri people.



Ok.. Do speak out whenever you want to.. Your lips, your air..



Omar1984 said:


> Kashmir is a DISPUTED teritory between Pakistan and india, and what happens in Kashmir is our business.


I can sit here and say Reliance's business is my business. It doesnt do squat. Likewise your statement 





Omar1984 said:


> Pakistanis can not just watch unarmed Kashmiris get killed by indian armed forces and keep silent. You indians dont care that innocent Kashmiris are being killed, but Pakistanis care.


You dont have any option. What we do within our borders is our wish. Do something about it if you have the capability (which you dont). Else handle your own backyard where the terrorists you bred against USSR and India are killing your own citizens by hundreds. They carry your own country's passports/id cards you know. 

You dont seem too bothered about them..





Omar1984 said:


> Krishna did not repsond to FM Qureshi's statements which were focused on Kashmiri repression in IOK.


Yes He didnt since Quereshi's statements did not merit a response. But hey, he didnt walk out.. Give some credit there


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Urbanized Greyhound said:


> sure and what about the terrorist activities .....the* ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri pandits *in the valley.....their human rights are not to be considered ?



How many pundits have been killed in these 3 months? almost 200 kashmiri youth have been martyred by indian occupying forces..... wats the number of dead pundits?





> Why respond to a question by a Pakistani minister about an Internal affair of India..?



R u tht naive?Its called DISPUTED TERRITORY for a reason... Pak flags being hoisted and dog indian ... go home slogans are being shouted! innocent kashmiris have been killed... women raped
Open ur eyes.



> should we now start questioning about the Thousands of civilians massacred in the ongoing War against T in Pakistan...?



Thee death toll of terrorist stands at almost 4000 .... ur welcome to come for their aid... coz u and their aim is the same.




> the Instigators of the riots and stone pelting are being paid to stir up trouble by external agencies .....



Yeah the people r retards thts why they want to die for 500 indian ruppees?
Also an indian cheap report says they r heroine addicts another says they want holidays...

I wonder how much money ISI has.



> should we start naming them and internationally isolate them with proof...?



Why not? u can highlight headley but not the country or agency? thts wierd.


> the choices are quite simple ....either we choose a mutually destructive path of confrontation , one which is guaranteed to further impoverish Pakistan or we choose to move on.....



Impoverish Pakistan? if i was the head of india ... id feed my hungry and end poverty,disease and other ills.


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## Fireurimagination

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Watever sails ur boat... 60 years back we took 57% next time the 43%.



Why didn't you took the remaining 43% the last time or the time before that or when you practically lost half of your country which was probably 200% of 43%

Krishna learned his lessons from his last trip to Pakistan, no point in friendly speeches when the other side doesn't believe in so, you reap what you will sow was Krishna's message probably

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## silent hill

Fireurimagination said:


> Why didn't you took the remaining 43&#37; the last time or the time before that or when you practically lost half of your country which was probably 200% of 43%
> 
> *Krishna learned his lessons from his last trip to Pakistan, no point in friendly speeches when the other side doesn't believe in so, you reap what you will sow was Krishna's message probably*



please dont be friendly, you have never been, the good gestures have been turned into violent gestures before, we dont beg of your merciful behaviour, what we demand not to bring, vulgaity and insanity in your approach esp when making public statements, the whole world in listening and watching you..

you must hire specialists to train your politicians in this regard that not to run their mouth often


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## Fireurimagination

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> How many pundits have been killed in these 3 months? almost 200 kashmiri youth have been martyred by indian occupying forces..... wats the number of dead pundits?



Not many left in Kashmir remember, they were driven away from their homes years ago by your peace loving, brutalized by Indian army separatists 




> R u tht naive?Its called DISPUTED TERRITORY for a reason... Pak flags being hoisted and dog indian ... go home slogans are being shouted! innocent kashmiris have been killed... women raped
> Open ur eyes.



DISPUTED TERRITORY for you, for us it's an integral part of our country, you have your POV we have ours, Kashmir doesn't belong only to separatist morons

If violent mobs will vandalize public property and attack security personals, lives will be lost not only in Kashmir, in any part of India infact in any part of the world 



> Thee death toll of terrorist stands at almost 4000 .... ur welcome to come for their aid... coz u and their aim is the same.



4000 darn I hope they had ID cards of being a terrorist with them and Pak jets and US drones are super smart so that they eliminate only terrorists 



> Yeah the people r retards thts why they want to die for 500 indian ruppees?
> Also an indian cheap report says they r heroine addicts another says they want holidays...
> 
> I wonder how much money ISI has.



Yeah some are, aren't there people who blow themselves up thinking God wants them to do that




> Why not? u can highlight headley but not the country or agency? thts wierd.



Headley was an Let operative, do you want to know the country from where Let operates?



> Impoverish Pakistan? if i was the head of india ... id feed my hungry and end poverty,disease and other ills.



Yup our head of states tries to do the same but it's not a one day process, whatever state Indian is in today is tons better than what state Pakistan is in

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## Fireurimagination

silent hill said:


> please dont be friendly, you have never been, the good gestures have been turned into violent gestures before, we dont beg of your merciful behaviour, what we demand not to bring, vulgaity and insanity in your approach esp when making public statements, the whole world in listening and watching you..
> 
> you must hire specialists to train your politicians in this regard that not to run their mouth often



The ball was set rolling by Pakistan by trying to tarnish India's image by commenting of human rights abuses by India etc etc 

What Krishna responded was by saying have a look at happenings inside your country before commenting on somebody else, he never bashed Pakistan by using 26/11, terrorism etc, he could have made it far more uglier but he is a gentleman


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## Urbanized Greyhound

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> How many pundits have been killed in these 3 months? almost 200 kashmiri youth have been martyred by indian occupying forces..... wats the number of dead pundits



just look at the ones driven from their homes in the last 2 decades from the time the insurgency started and you will get your answer....



> R u tht naive?Its called DISPUTED TERRITORY for a reason... Pak flags being hoisted and dog indian ... go home slogans are being shouted! innocent kashmiris have been killed... *women raped
> Open ur eyes*.



women raped ? I presume you are referring to the Neelofer and Asiya case that was quite clearly made out to be a family dispute and even then the separatists Geelani and the hurriyat tried to use it to further their nefarious agendas.....no such incidents have been reported in the *current* violence and none by armed forces personnel so thats just your wishful thinking.....

as far as the disputed part .....it is disputed only according to two sources ....the GOP and a defunct , impracticable U.N resolution ( which is beyond the means of even Pakistan to honour in the current geopolitical scenario....will the PA remove its troops from AJK..?).....the international community at large agrees with our stand in principle....no change of the status quo...... 





> Thee death toll of terrorist stands at almost 4000 .... ur welcome to come for their aid... coz u and their aim is the same.



dont worry unlike minister Qureshi ....we dont have the time or the inclination to meddle in another countries internal affairs....so no question of Aims being same .....and for your info....every one in S.Asia is looking forward to stability
(myself included).......though you be naive enough to call 4000 of your countrymen as terrorists .....ever heard of a word called reconciliation ??? .....at least our attempts have prevented the deaths of another 4000-200 deaths.....so no point dictating to us about* situation control *........




> *Yeah the people r retards thts why they want to die for 500 indian ruppees?*
> Also an indian cheap report says they r heroine addicts another says they want holidays...



where do you read these reports from ??? could you post them here for our collective benefit ...?

Its not the innocent stone pelter on the streets whose getting paid but the senior leadership of the Hardline hurriyat faction....and the sick thing is they could use their influences of Kashmiriyat and religion over a large group of misled youngsters to knowingly send multitudes to their deaths in cold blood ......dont know what is more shameful 
....reading about these incidents or hearing some people justify them ....???




> I wonder how much money ISI has.



Go through the thread about some millions disappearing from
public finances into the ISI budget which was posted recently.....and some of the replies and estimates of the Pakistani members to it.....you will get all your answers.....


*Why not? u can highlight headley but not the country or agency? thts wierd.
*

we have long since identified all three .....go through the Indian official declarations once again.....



> Impoverish Pakistan? if i was the head of india ... id feed my hungry and end poverty,disease and other ills.



we are doing a remarkably good job on the poverty and disease font ....an internationally acknowledged fact.......your disaster management efforts in the ongoing floods is more than ample proof that you are nowhere close to matching us at least in this case....so my point is still standing.......


----------



## silent hill

Fireurimagination said:


> The ball was set rolling by Pakistan by trying to tarnish India's image by commenting of human rights abuses by India etc etc
> 
> What Krishna responded was by saying have a look at happenings inside your country before commenting on somebody else, he never bashed Pakistan by using 26/11, terrorism etc, he could have made it far more uglier but he is a gentleman



what is happening in pakistan is not a human rights abuse by govt, its not the pakistani army, killing innocents pathans, sindhis, punjabis genocide, but its the difference that indian army itself is shameless violating human rights by torturing, murdering rampaging, and producing such shameless statements while the whole world is regretting whats happening, the world is with pakistan on WoT, but world is certainly not with india after what it has done..


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## Urbanized Greyhound

silent hill said:


> what is happening in pakistan is not a human rights abuse by govt, its not the pakistani army, killing innocents pathans, sindhis, punjabis genocide, but its the difference that indian army itself is shameless violating human rights by torturing, murdering rampaging, and producing such shameless statements *while the whole world is regretting whats happening, the world is with pakistan on WoT, but world is certainly not with india after what it has done.*.



thats just what you seem to believe....the world in general seems to adhere to the view these days that "terrorism is not justified by any means" so the world is very much with India in keeping a check on externally sponsored fundamentalism......every diplomat in most major govts of the world recognize the Kashmir situation being hijacked by vested interests with a strong religious bias.....when Kashmiris enjoy unrestrained democracy in india compared to a total control by the GOP ....and power makers behind them ( PA , ISI etc)....then it becomes clear that the protests have been engineered and motivated on religious and ethnic lines.....hence no one in the international polity mentions the 'K" word....


----------



## Areesh

Von H&#246;lle;1168313 said:


> Why?? do people living in Karachi some how have lesser right to live than people living in J&K?
> 
> It does not concern you when 100 plus people can die in karchi in less than 3 days, but when 100 ppl die in Kashmir in 3 months..suddenly everybody gets a fit of human rights?..C'mon gimee a break!!
> 
> These are just crocodile tears, when you can't stop such things happening on your own turf ..what right do you have to question others ?



Don't you think that was some argument. How lame. Or I can turn the same question to you. Do the people of Chattisgarh have less right to life that maoists have killed thousands in that poor state unlike IOK where "only" 100+ have been killed by organized mercenaries hired by GOI. Looks like you guys aren't left with much arguments for IOK or you don't realize that your argument is dumb and might backfire to you.



karan.1970 said:


> I wouldnt know since Pakistan has an international media clamp down in PO K. For all anyone knows thousands *may have been* killed without the news leaking out..



May have been. With this "may have been" your post isn't worthy enough to be commented. Talk on realities buddy.


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## GFM_EhsanUlHaq

I want to ask one thing..........
Why india always tries to cahnge the topic and camplains a lot/????


----------



## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> May have been. With this "may have been" your post isn't worthy enough to be commented. Talk on realities buddy.



Since there is an army clamp down in the Pak Occupied Kashmir, its impossible for Indian civilians to know the truth. All that is available is the findings of the European Parliament's mission to J&K and Pak Occupied Kashmir which termed the freedom and other aspects much worse in the Pakistani part of Kashmir than the Indian side.


----------



## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> Since there is an army clamp down in the Pak Occupied Kashmir, its impossible for Indian civilians to know the truth. All that is available is the findings of the European Parliament's mission to J&K and Pak Occupied Kashmir which termed the freedom and other aspects much worse in the Pakistani part of Kashmir than the Indian side.



Facts buddy facts. Not assumptions. Please.


----------



## Von Hölle

Bravo!!! you just proved my point!! 



Areesh said:


> Don't you think that was some argument. How lame. Or I can turn the same question to you. Do the people of Chattisgarh have less right to life that maoists have killed thousands in that poor state unlike IOK where "only" 100+ have been killed by organized mercenaries hired by GOI. Looks like you guys aren't left with much arguments for IOK or you don't realize that your argument is dumb and might backfire to you.



My Question is why don't you discuss those killings then??

It just proves that you do not care for human sufferings, neither in Chattisgarh nor in Karachi but just wan't cry a river for Kashmir??!!..because it suits agenda??

When you can't shed those tears for you own??..then how come Kashmir gets a full bowl?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Areesh

Von H&#246;lle;1169208 said:


> My Question is why don't you discuss those killings then??
> 
> It just proves that you do not care for human sufferings, neither in Chattisgarh nor in Karachi but just wan't cry a river for Kashmir??!!..because it suits agenda??
> 
> When you can't shed those tears for you own??..then how come Kashmir gets a full bowl?



BS... Why don't you rant about Chattisgarh like you do for IOK on this forum? Shame on you, you people don't have any sympathy for human suffering... 

See. How lame was your argument. 



> Bravo!!! you just proved my point!!



You didn't get the point dear.


----------



## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Facts buddy facts. Not assumptions. Please.



It was a fact finding mission. I have posted the link to the complete report in one of the threads. DO look it up..


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## Von Hölle

Areesh said:


> BS... Why don't you rant about Chattisgarh like you do for IOK on this forum? Shame on you, you people don't have any sympathy for human suffering...
> 
> See. How lame was your argument.
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't get the point dear.



Well you can call it lame or whatever but even on world stage nobody is buying your argument!!.


----------



## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> It was a fact finding mission. I have posted the link to the complete report in one of the threads. DO look it up..



And did that fact finding mission give us any info about civilians being killed by security forces for protesting for their rights. Obviously not. So keep assumptions to your self and don't share them here.


----------



## Areesh

Von Hölle;1169281 said:


> Well you can call it lame or whatever but even on world stage nobody is buying your argument!!.



Is that the last thing you can say? Looks like your Indians are at serious lack of arguments about IOK.


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## TaimiKhan

The number of thanks show whose what is on how much fire

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## TaimiKhan

Von Hölle;1169281 said:


> Well you can call it lame or whatever but even on world stage nobody is buying your argument!!.



Strange thing is that if world wasn't buying our argument, then why Krishna Sb had to waste so much time in his speech lecturing us about Kashmir and mentioning the things going on in there. 

On one side he says its "our atoot ang" while on the other he mentions it at the UN body. 

Tell this to Krishna Sb, not us.


----------



## Von Hölle

TaimiKhan said:


> Strange thing is that if world wasn't buying our argument, then why Krishna Sb had to waste so much time in his speech lecturing us about Kashmir and mentioning the things going on in there.
> 
> On one side he says its "our atoot ang" while on the other he mentions it at the UN body.
> 
> Tell this to Krishna Sb, not us.


 
Mr Krishna did right thing asking Mr Qureshi to lay off, but interesting part is even at UN except Mr Qureshi nobody cared enough bother with the issue or even condemn it.


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## Jazzbot

*Edit*


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## TaimiKhan

Von Hölle;1169336 said:


> Mr Krishna did right thing asking Mr Qureshi to lay off, but interesting part is even at UN except Mr Qureshi nobody cared enough bother with the issue or even condemn it.



At UN, every country talks about its own issues and the problems its facing. 

Pakistan and India being foes, its common sense that they are gonna talk about issues which are between them, did Pakistan said anything about other issues India is facing, did Pakistan raise Maoist thingy, NO. 

Since, as per UN, Kashmir is a disputed territory between both countries, Pakistan has all the rights to raise this issue at wherever it wants, someone takes notice or not, doesn't matter, our right is to take a stand on it, which we will do.


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## Jade

At last India is learning to be assertive in its policies -first with China now on Kashmir issue. Good work


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## Comet

*Forget Kashmir, worry about your own survival*

is this a warning / threat?


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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> And did that fact finding mission give us any info about civilians being killed by security forces for protesting for their rights. Obviously not. So keep assumptions to your self and don't share them here.



Look the report up...


----------



## karan.1970

TaimiKhan said:


> Strange thing is that if world wasn't buying our argument, then why Krishna Sb had to waste so much time in his speech lecturing us about Kashmir and mentioning the things going on in there.
> 
> On one side he says its "our atoot ang" while on the other he mentions it at the UN body.
> 
> Tell this to Krishna Sb, not us.



Krishna Sb just told Quereshi Sb to mind his own backyard first..

Drawing a parallel, if an illiterate tries to lecture a literate person on merits of eduction, most of the time, the literate guy will tell the illiterate to take a walk. Same thing happened when Quereshi sb tried to lecture India on democratic values..


----------



## karan.1970

umairp said:


> *Forget Kashmir, worry about your own survival*
> 
> is this a warning / threat?



Neighbourly Advice.. Basically he felt that with all the other stuff happening in Pakistan, there are bigger and survival threatning problems facing Pakistan at this time that deserve more attention..

As Amir Khan says in 3 Idiots

Free advice hai.. Leni hai to lo.. Nahin to jaane do...


----------



## TaimiKhan

karan.1970 said:


> Krishna Sb just told Quereshi Sb to mind his own backyard first..
> 
> Drawing a parallel, if an illiterate tries to lecture a literate person on merits of eduction, most of the time, the literate guy will tell the illiterate to take a walk. Same thing happened when Quereshi sb tried to lecture India on democratic values..



As said before, we did not said anything about Maoist or other insurgencies in India. 

Kashmir as per UN being a disputed territory between both countries, thus Pakistan has full right to raise this issue and since India calls for itself a democratic country and its previous leaders siding with democratic values promised that plebiscite will take place to let the people of Kashmir decide, India should be and is needed to remind of the democratic values, which it is bluntly ignoring and has so far killed thousands.


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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> Look the report up...



Why should I?


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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Why should I?



yeah! ugly does not like mirror... old chinese proverb


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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> yeah! ugly does not like mirror... old chinese proverb



Or the mirror isn't present.


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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Or the mirror isn't present.



You will only find it if you look for it.. Else stay uninformed


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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> You will only find it if you look for it.. Else stay uninformed



Why look for it when it isn't present. If it is present share with us.


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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Why look for it when it isn't present. If it is present share with us.



Badsoorat ko aieena dikhana is cruelty. If you are interested in truth, search for it. Else stay without it


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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> Badsoorat ko aieena dikhana is cruelty. If you are interested in truth, search for it. Else stay without it



That is why you start ranting when we show mirror to you. Got it. 

Anyways do share such mirror if you find them and aren't as hypothetical as Kashmir integral part of India rant is.


----------



## hecj

Areesh said:


> That is why you start ranting when we show mirror to you. Got it.
> 
> Anyways do share such mirror if you find them and aren't as hypothetical as Kashmir integral part of India rant is.





> aren't as hypothetical as Kashmir integral part of India rant is.



it's a matter of understanding which u dont know even after trying a lot.


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## silent hill

Urbanized Greyhound said:


> thats just what you seem to believe....the world in general seems to adhere to the view these days that "terrorism is not justified by any means" so the world is very much with India in keeping a check on externally sponsored fundamentalism......every diplomat in most major govts of the world recognize the Kashmir situation being hijacked by vested interests with a strong religious bias.....when Kashmiris enjoy unrestrained democracy in india compared to a total control by the GOP ....and power makers behind them ( PA , ISI etc)....then it becomes clear that the protests have been engineered and motivated on religious and ethnic lines.....hence no one in the international polity mentions the 'K" word....



ukta chor qotwal ko dante....

my indian friend, you have forgotten that it was india which used the military to occupy this area in the first place, and then whether it be hyderabad, assam, nagaland, punjab, india has always used the weapons and mass genocide to control the areas, proof is the bloody punjab massacre of sikhs, so dont act like you are innocent, and accept the ground realities instead of playing the blame game always


----------



## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> That is why you start ranting when we show mirror to you. Got it.
> 
> *Anyways do share such mirror if you find them and aren't as hypothetical as Kashmir integral part of India rant is.*




Google European parliament report on Kashmir which Pakistani lobby tried its best to prevent being tabled in the Europen parliament..

Also look up the meaning of the word integral.


----------



## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> Google European parliament report on Kashmir which Pakistani lobby tried its best to prevent being tabled in the Europen parliament..
> 
> Also look up the meaning of the word integral.



Share with us and tell us how many stonepelters we have killed.


----------



## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Share with us and tell us how many stonepelters we have killed.



You cant do exact comparisons. That way tell us how many civilians have we killed in air raids using our own air force on our own soil.. 

I can get into the details, but last time I posted that link, I was banned for 10 days.. 


So thats why I said, that *ugly not like mirror..*


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Not surprising when our diplomats harshly pulverize any foreign nation making a statement on Kashmir.

Like Miliband comments caused a diplomatic stir last time.

Such a blunt statement at the diplomatic level only tells how self-preservative we are when it comes to Kashmir.


----------



## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> You cant do exact comparisons. That way tell us how many civilians have we killed in air raids using our own air force on our own soil..
> 
> I can get into the details, but last time I posted that link, I was banned for 10 days..
> 
> 
> So thats why I said, that *ugly not like mirror..*



Share with us. Get ban for 15 days this time but share with us. 

Or as you said thousands of people killed in AJK. Tell us about that.


----------



## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Share with us. *Get ban for 15 days this time* but share with us.



I am sure you would like that 

If you want to read the EU report, you will have to move your own hands dude.. not gonna spoon feed..


----------



## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> I am sure you would like that
> 
> If you want to read the EU report, you will have to move your own hands dude.. not gonna spoon feed..



No Buddy. Tell us about the report or those thousands of people we have killed in AJK according to you. It was you who started making childish comments about AJK now it will be you who will prove them. 

I am not going move my hands. Sorry.


----------



## Urbanized Greyhound

silent hill said:


> ukta chor qotwal ko dante....
> 
> my indian friend,* you have forgotten that it was india which used the military to occupy this area in the first place*, and then whether it be hyderabad, assam, nagaland, punjab, india has always used the weapons and mass genocide to control the areas, proof is the bloody punjab massacre of sikhs, so dont act like you are innocent, and accept the ground realities instead of playing the blame game always



Bro u really need to check the bold bit again.......as per any unbiased history source it was Pakistan Army regulars along with Pathan tribesmen who mounted an assault on soveriegn Kashmiri territory under the control of Maharaja Gulab Singh.....and it was only *after *the instrument of Accession was signed that Indian troops were allowed to enter the conflict and *it was ironically this delay and a desire of the then GOI to stick to international norms at all costs that is the reason today the GB region is under Pakistani Military control*......and if required I can post unbiased accounts of the atrocities committed on the Kashmiri populace by the hired mercenaries..... ...


as regards Punjab , nagaland all other cases mentioned ....we can easily draw a parallel with the Pakistan armed forces military action in Baluchistan(Nawab Bughti's death)....Lal masjid..... the current WOT in NWFP region....etc

and we can draw a parallel with any other country for that matter....Russia-Chechen rebels.....China -with Xinxiang & Tibetan rebels.....in International geopolitics such an argument can be quite naive......all states consider their territorial integrity of paramount importance and by the looks of it we appear to have displayed remarkable restraint in our responses at unprovoked riot instigation......


----------



## riju78

THE EU report
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides.../NONSGML+REPORT+A6-2007-0158+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN


----------



## riju78

*Gilgit and Baltistan*

19. Bad as the situation is in AJK, it is infinitely worse in Gilgit and Baltistan, the
northernmost area of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, which enjoys no status or even the
semblance of democratic representation.
20. Gilgit and Baltistan (referred to as the Northern Areas by Pakistan) is administered by
Pakistan. As Pakistan maintains that the whole of Jammu and Kashmir is disputed
territory, it has not formally incorporated the Northern Areas. As such, it is neither a
province of Pakistan nor a part of AJK. The Northern Areas Council, set up some time
ago, with the boast that it is functioning like a 'Provincial Assembly', screens, in reality, a
total absence of constitutional identity or civil rights.
21. The people are kept in poverty, illiteracy and backwardness. The deprivation and lack of
even very basic needs provision can be easily seen - 25 small hospitals serviced by 140
doctors (translating into 1 doctor per 6,000 people) as compared to 830 hospitals and
75,000 doctors in the rest of Pakistan, an overall literacy rate of 33%, with especially
poor educational indicators for girls and women; only 12 high schools and 2 regional
colleges in Gilgit and Baltistan, with no postgraduate facilities; apart from government
jobs, the only other employment being in the tourism sector, which is obviously
problematic A few locals are able to secure government jobs but even then they are paid
up to 35% less than non-native employees; there is no local broadcast media.
22. The 2005 earthquake, disastrous in itself, exacerbated all the above. It would be wholly
irresponsible not to draw attention to this situation or to highlight these continuing
injustices, and the report therefore underlines forcefully the need for Pakistan to revisit its
concept of democratic accountability and to address the needs provision issue in the areas
under its (de facto) control.
The issue of a plebiscite
23. The report makes clear its support for the current peace process between Pakistan and
India as the way forward.
24. Pakistan continues to point to early UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir to support its
contention that there should be a plebiscite to determine whether a reunited Jammu and
Kashmir should "join" India or Pakistan. The report notes, however, that the UN-laid
down conditions for such a plebiscite have not been, and can no longer be, met by
Pakistan. The situation has moved on.
Conclusion
25. In conclusion, the report recognises the ancient and unique heritage of the Kashmiri
people, and the rapporteur has nothing but praise for their tenacity. After so many
decades of conflict and tragedy in this particularly beautiful and historic part of the subcontinent,
it is heartening to see the two great powers, India and Pakistan, coming
together with the peoples of Kashmir and that peaceful solutions are both on the horizon
and being implemented, a familiar process which the European Parliament fully supports.


----------



## Areesh

So Karan one of your brother has posted the reported. Now you point me out those thousands of people killed in AJK by Pakistan from it.


Now you have the report, back your claim with it.


----------



## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> So Karan one of your brother has posted the reported. Now you point me out those thousands of people killed in AJK by Pakistan from it.
> 
> 
> Now you have the report, back your claim with it.





karan.1970 said:


> I wouldnt know since *Pakistan has an international media clamp down in PO K*. *For all anyone knows *thousands *may* have been killed without the news leaking out..




All of us need to learn to read clearly before responding...


----------



## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> All of us need to learn to read clearly before responding...



Oh than say it simple buddy. It was just your wet dream. Lolzzz

No proof by the poor bharati.


----------



## Urbanized Greyhound

Areesh said:


> So Karan one of your brother has posted the reported. *Now you point me out those thousands of people killed in AJK by Pakistan from it.*
> 
> 
> Now you have the report, back your claim with it.




when the GOP doesnt do its duty....i.e provide sufficient disaster relief measures to prevent the deaths of thousands of people in the *aftermath* of the earthquake.....then that is equivalent to killing thousands of people.....just compare India 's efforts in any of the natural disasters ....Guj earthquake , Tsunami,Ladakh floods...etc

this is where a democratic government with accountability matters....and the worst thing about the AJK situation is that no matter what appalling conditions suffered by the people there , they have nowhere to complain ....no effective forum to raise their grievances ....and no real Govt to take to task when the real show is being run by the PA behind a civilian govt in Islamabad.......the ground realities remain the same no matter what Qureshi says at the U.N......


----------



## Areesh

Urbanized Greyhound said:


> when the GOP doesnt do its duty....i.e provide sufficient disaster relief measures to prevent the deaths of thousands of people in the *aftermath* of the earthquake.....*then that is equivalent to killing thousands of people*.....just compare India 's efforts in any of the natural disasters ....Guj earthquake , Tsunami,Ladakh floods...etc
> 
> this is where a democratic government with accountability matters....and the worst thing about the AJK situation is that no matter what appalling conditions suffered by the people there , they have nowhere to complain ....no effective forum to raise their grievances ....and no real Govt to take to task when the real show is being run by the PA behind a civilian govt in Islamabad.......the ground realities remain the same no matter what Qureshi says at the U.N......



After this word equivalent I don't think I have to move on. Sorry.


----------



## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Oh than say it simple buddy. It was just your wet dream. Lolzzz
> 
> No proof by the poor bharati.



2 things

1. You never read (or understood) my post and went off on a tangent. Not my problem that you didnt understand the sentence constructs.

2. Innocent people dying is never and can never be my dreams.. Take it as you may..


----------



## somebozo

Mind your own insurgencies and stop worrying about Afghanistan..

My reply to Krishna!



Urbanized Greyhound said:


> when the GOP doesnt do its duty....i.e provide sufficient disaster relief measures to prevent the deaths of thousands of people in the aftermath of the earthquake.....then that is equivalent to killing thousands of people.....just compare India 's efforts in any of the natural disasters ....Guj earthquake , Tsunami,Ladakh floods...etc
> 
> this is where a democratic government with accountability matters....and the worst thing about the AJK situation is that no matter what appalling conditions suffered by the people there , they have nowhere to complain ....no effective forum to raise their grievances ....and no real Govt to take to task when the real show is being run by the PA behind a civilian govt in Islamabad.......the ground realities remain the same no matter what Qureshi says at the U.N......



How ignorant can one get to bash their arch enemy is a sign of frustation they have built up over time. After all its the land of "ToI".

Not only Pakistan collected world record relief funds but also provided superb reconstruction to the affected areas. The Saudis provided increased labor quotas for residents of AJK since then many have been able to earn their way into rebuilding rather than depending on handouts.



> In the aftermath of the 2005 Kashmir earthquake, Saudi Arabia donated over US$3.3 million, more than any other country,[10] and promised an additional $573 million, also the maximum amount of money pledged.[11] Saudi Arabia also provided 4000 pre-fabricated houses to Pakistan through the Saudi Public Assistance for Pakistan Earthquake Victims (SPAPEV). The houses, which were to be equipped with all required facilities, cost over $16.7 million. The SPAPEV also distributed 230,000 blankets, 150,000 quilts, 10,000 ordinary tents, 2,500 special winterized water proof tents, 100,000 stoves, 100,000 food.
> 
> The Saudi government pledged $230 million to development in Afghanistan. It has also pledged $133 million in direct grant aid, $187 million in concessional loans, and $153 million in export credits for Pakistan earthquake relief.



http://www.spapev.org/


----------



## karan.1970

somebozo said:


> Mind your own insurgencies and stop worrying about Afghanistan..
> 
> My reply to Krishna!



You too.... There are bigger and badder insurgencies within Pakistan too. 

Stay off Kashmir..

My reply to Quereshi


----------



## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> 2 things
> 
> 1. You never read (or understood) my post and went off on a tangent. Not my problem that you didnt understand the sentence constructs.
> 
> 2. Innocent people dying is never and can never be my dreams.. Take it as you may..



The posts based on assumptions and dreams aren't worthy enough to be understand.


----------



## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> The posts based on assumptions and dreams aren't worthy enough to be understand.



But are worthy enough to be responded to? So you belive in writing and responding without understanding. 

It is evident, however coming as an admission is always good


----------



## Urbanized Greyhound

Areesh said:


> After this word equivalent I don't think I have to move on. Sorry.



Apparently their deaths in AK are of no consequence.....no matter the internal situation in Pakistan.....the Pakistani foreign dep will always bring up a confrontation with India...... talk about a bunch of obsessed people ......


----------



## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> But are worthy enough to be responded to? So you belive in writing and responding without understanding.
> 
> It is evident, however coming as an admission is always good



Your admission is also good that your posts are based on assumptions many of which are your wet dreams.


----------



## rafay321

Krishna just got frustrated with his height. He can't comprehend the fact that he looks dwarf standing with Qureshi so he don't wana meet him  

Puppet government, 700,000 occupational army, human rights violation. Kashmirs on the streets, azadi slogans, stone pelting, deaths, house arrest of the leaders...welcome to WORLDS BIGGEST DEMOCRACY. 

A true democracy would never ever have these problems in first place because of the very democratic process.

Pak does not have any democracy good enough. At least we come clean on what we have and what dont. India is a two faced *****. 

Worlds biggest democracy and they have Kashmir. Pak promoting millitants in Kashmir when they did the same in 1971 and now in FATA but could not repeat ****. As i said two faced ***** this country is.




Areesh said:


> Your admission is also good that your posts are based on assumptions many of which are your wet dreams.



Looks like he is from the Bhakshak forum, Some prominent wet dreams there which has a dedicated thread for mental masturbation for Indians even though they dont have enough toilets include: 

1- Civil war in pak
2- Taliban take over
3- Nuclear disarmament of Pak by US
4- Baluchistan cutting out of pak
5- World stop selling arms to pak
6- Floods wiping of air bases and nuclear sites
7- Mutiny in Pak army on ethnic basis (Punjabis army killing pakhtuns in Swat reason!! After our SWAT success they had this wet dream)
8- US invasion of Pak
9- Pak dis-integrated

and the masturbation goes on and on......


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## kingdurgaking

silent hill said:


> ukta chor qotwal ko dante....
> 
> my indian friend, you have forgotten that it was india which used the military to occupy this area in the first place, and then whether it be hyderabad, assam, nagaland, punjab, india has always used the weapons and mass genocide to control the areas, proof is the bloody punjab massacre of sikhs, so dont act like you are innocent, and accept the ground realities instead of playing the blame game always



Oke dear let us assume the case that india used military to occupy the area.. Atleast we had guts to use Military and showed the whole world that India is involve... Let us take the work of ISI/Army and GoP... do they have the guts to do so?? they never did.. all they do is only proxy war... fighting battle face to face is far better than insurgency ... If GoP is so much interested in JK it should have taken over it diplomatically or by waging war on JK after independence... where it failed miserably.. and please dont talk about genocide haan.. world knows better who has done mass genocide and who is breeding whom...
As far as Pakistan is considered it has to work on its economy first... it has to develop its land which is currently under possession.. pity a small country not able to lift its people out of dark.. atleast the situation is far better on this regard here...


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## kingdurgaking

Areesh said:


> So Karan one of your brother has posted the reported. Now you point me out those thousands of people killed in AJK by Pakistan from it.
> 
> 
> Now you have the report, back your claim with it.



You want to know how people in AJK are killed?? Please ... they are killed on the pretext of religion .. they are converted into terrorist by twisting holy quran sent to india and get killed... dont you think this is not killing??? there are several thousands killed like that..


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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Your admission is also good that your posts are based on assumptions many of which are your wet dreams.



whatever floats your boat


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## kingdurgaking

rafay321 said:


> Krishna just got frustrated with his height. He can't comprehend the fact that he looks dwarf standing with Qureshi so he don't wana meet him
> 
> Puppet government, 700,000 occupational army, human rights violation. Kashmirs on the streets, azadi slogans, stone pelting, deaths, house arrest of the leaders...welcome to WORLDS BIGGEST DEMOCRACY.
> 
> A true democracy would never ever have these problems in first place because of the very democratic process.
> 
> Pak does not have any democracy good enough. At least we come clean on what we have and what dont. India is a two faced *****.
> 
> Worlds biggest democracy and they have Kashmir. Pak promoting millitants in Kashmir when they did the same in 1971 and now in FATA but could not repeat ****. As i said two faced ***** this country is.
> 
> Looks like he is from the Bhakshak forum, Some prominent wet dreams there which has a dedicated thread for mental masturbation for Indians even though they dont have enough toilets include:
> 
> 1- Civil war in pak
> 2- Taliban take over
> 3- Nuclear disarmament of Pak by US
> 4- Baluchistan cutting out of pak
> 5- World stop selling arms to pak
> 6- Floods wiping of air bases and nuclear sites
> 7- Mutiny in Pak army on ethnic basis (Punjabis army killing pakhtuns in Swat reason!! After our SWAT success they had this wet dream)
> 8- US invasion of Pak
> 9- Pak dis-integrated
> 
> and the masturbation goes on and on......




Mr Krisha need not get frustated at all.. he just spoke very calmly ... where as we can see your minister under pressure.. Pressure from your president i guess may be his appraisal was nearing... 
Our Minister facts are right on nail..
we are conducting elections and 60&#37; turn over rate is recorded.. very high compared to other states
All facilities like education is provided to people of JK.. People enjoy all rights ... they hold indian passports... If they dont want to be indian they can tear it give it to the district collector... i guess no such incidents are reported...
Issues are purely created by terrorist and geelani.. If youths are not brainwashed for sure peace will be there in JK.. I have some reports where youths of JK actively participate in Army recruitment... 

Please post similar facts on P0K... what is the literacy rate ... what are the developments provided etc etc.. 

Secondly pakistan is in biggest mess.. since the begining of decade it is fighting war.. your economy is a war torn economy... please post any development your country is proposing apart from defence.. all your dealings are only w.r.t defence.. Any educational transaction with any country??.. any big infrastructure investment??? any country has invested there money in your country?? if so who what is the %... kindly compare that with india... what are the employment features your country is providing for outsiders??? what is the stake of pakistan in other countries... 

Please answer some of the above questions you will understand which minister is making fun of whom???

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## SQ8

Abir said:


> wow! I only can say wow! since when Indians ministers learned how to talk!



They've learned how and when to talk?? 
When did that happen??
I dont see any pigs flying.. damn swines must be nocturnal or something !!


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## RamGorur

santro said:


> They've learned how and when to talk??
> When did that happen??
> I dont see any pigs flying.. damn swines must be nocturnal or something !!


You have to take off your blindfold first.


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## FreekiN

Avoiding a solution, like always, eh India?

Change the subject whenever Kashmir is mentioned because that's all you ever do.

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## Areesh

kingdurgaking said:


> You want to know how people in AJK are killed?? Please ... they are killed on the pretext of religion .. they are converted into terrorist by twisting holy quran sent to india and get killed... dont you think this is not killing??? there are several thousands killed like that..





karan.1970 said:


> whatever floats your boat

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## Game is loading

Lol Pakistan cries everyday,"Solve Kashmir problem,Kashmir is an issue of human rights" just like an irritating kid.
Krishna the headmaster came and

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## kingdurgaking

Areesh said:


>



This is no bull **** ... it is a known fact.. we can give count of terrorist killed by BSF every year.. what is this then called?? if you send army and you die then it is a brave act... if you send terrorist and you get them killed what you can tell then?? it is a matter of killing your own people samjii bachey.. you dont know how to protect/develop the people in your land.. why you worried about our people here ??


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## Areesh

kingdurgaking said:


> This is no bull **** ... it is a known fact.. we can give count of terrorist killed by BSF every year.. what is this then called?? if you send army and you die then it is a brave act... if you send terrorist and you get them killed what you can tell then?? it is a matter of killing your own people samjii bachey.. you dont know how to protect/develop the people in your land.. why you worried about our people here ?? go away kid.. bring some elders from your family for arguing



OK... Bharat Rickshaw is their you can share such childish rants their and can come back anytime when you have some proofs to back yourself with.


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## kingdurgaking

Areesh said:


> OK... Bharat Rickshaw is their you can share such childish rants their and can come back anytime when you have some proofs to back yourself with.



hmmm .... you want proof??? hmmm i will give a day light proof ..you know kargil war? i hope you know it... and you mush also know that large number of mujaideens died?? They are brainwashed people from P0K... do you think its a good idea by ISI/Army to send irregulars to JK and get killed??? dont you think it is a sure shot kill by your ISI/Army.. they dont have any value for human life?? why cant ISI/Army educate them and send abroad and give them there rights?? hmmm thats why i said... brother you will not be able to understand to respond back appropriately...

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## mjnaushad

kingdurgaking said:


> hmmm .... you want proof??? hmmm i will give a day light proof ..you know kargil war? i hope you know it... and you mush also know that large number of mujaideens died?? They are brainwashed people from P0K... do you think its a good idea by ISI/Army to send irregulars to JK and get killed??? dont you think it is a sure shot kill by your ISI/Army.. they dont have any value for human life?? why cant ISI/Army educate them and send abroad and give them there rights?? hmmm thats why i said... stay away kid you will not be able to understand to respond back appropriately...


71 cross border terrorism coward act by arming a terrorists by terrorist organization of RAW.

PS: Your previous comment.....Keep it civil...Can argue dont start personal attack. Next time i see Bacha, And bring elders from family type comment you'll straight go to Banistan......

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## kingdurgaking

mjnaushad said:


> 71 cross border terrorism coward act by arming a terrorists by terrorist organization of RAW.
> 
> PS: Your previous comment.....Keep it civil...Can argue dont start personal attack. Next time i see Bacha, And bring elders from family type comment you'll straight go to Banistan......



Sorry if i had hurt any one.. it is unintentional... I hope it is not permanent ban... how long is the ban period??

But buddy in 71 we have sent our Army(regulars) that is there duty.. we haven't send any innocent people.. we are emphazing ISI/Army to send only army regulars for the fight ... not innocent brain washed people...


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## mjnaushad

kingdurgaking said:


> Sorry if i had hurt any one.. it is unintentional... I hope it is not permanent ban... how long is the ban period??
> 
> But buddy in 71 we have sent our Army(regulars) that is there duty.. we haven't send any innocent people.. we are emphazing ISI/Army to send only army regulars for the fight ... not innocent brain washed people...


RAW trained and provided weapons to Anti Pakistan Elements......Its an open truth...Biggest Covertops of Raw.


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## kingdurgaking

mjnaushad said:


> RAW trained and provided weapons to Anti Pakistan Elements......Its an open truth...Biggest Covertops of Raw.



If so same way ISI is doing in India by recruiting people here... which negates both the secret agents action... what i will say as Tit for tat...


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## kingdurgaking

mjnaushad said:


> RAW trained and provided weapons to Anti Pakistan Elements......Its an open truth...Biggest Covertops of Raw.



You are talking about 71 war?? come on... whole world know Indian army was involved... our prime minister gave the authority openly in front of the entire world... Please provide proof to back up in 71... i feel i dont want to give any proof that our Army did attack..


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## mjnaushad

kingdurgaking said:


> You are talking about 71 war?? come on... whole world know Indian army was involved... our prime minister gave the authority openly in front of the entire world... Please provide proof to back up in 71... i feel i dont want to give any proof that our Army did attack..


Before war India was training Mukti Bahini and providing them weapons....Learn some history....


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## kingdurgaking

mjnaushad said:


> Before war India was training Mukti Bahini and providing them weapons....Learn some history....



hmmm you forgot to understand that it turned against you because of your own people.... And India intervened after they requested help.. Just like we helped Sri lanka .... There is no comparison between Mukti Bahini and Terrorist being breded in P0K... Mukti Bahini became powerful only after your Army showed its might and India no longer supports them... where as youths in Pak Adm Kashmir are still brainwashed for no reason and sent to JK and were getting killed for no good.. Mukti Bahini atleast got a country within short span... where as these people still are born, grown, brainwashed and killed.. they didnt have any purpose for there existence... not sure how may scientist or intelligent people got killed for no good by your ISI/Army....

Understood your Country has a target to achieve ... you have to do it properly by diplomacy or by war..


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## TaimiKhan

kingdurgaking said:


> hmmm you forgot to understand that it turned against you because of your own people.... And India intervened after they requested help.. Just like we helped Sri lanka .... There is no comparison between Mukti Bahini and Terrorist being breded in P0K... Mukti Bahini became powerful only after your Army showed its might and India no longer supports them... where as youths in Pak Adm Kashmir are still brainwashed for no reason and sent to JK and were getting killed for no good.. Mukti Bahini atleast got a country within short span... where as these people still are born, grown, brainwashed and killed.. they didnt have any purpose for there existence... not sure how may scientist or intelligent people got killed for no good by your ISI/Army....
> 
> Understood your Country has a target to achieve ... you have to do it properly by diplomacy or by war..



Who the hell was India to help them, even if they asked for it. 

And if that is your justification, then similarly, the Kashmirs asked us to help them to get free from occupational forces who are on a rampage and so far killed thousands and God knows what not. 

Thus if you people can come up with your own justification, we can come up with ours. 

As said again, to you these freedom fighters are terrorists, for us they aren't, same case was for Mukti Bani, you helped them as they seemed to be oppressed and freedom fighters for you, for us they were and are terrorists to this day.


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## kingdurgaking

TaimiKhan said:


> Who the hell was India to help them, even if they asked for it.
> 
> And if that is your justification, then similarly, the Kashmirs asked us to help them to get free from occupational forces who are on a rampage and so far killed thousands and God knows what not.
> 
> Thus if you people can come up with your own justification, we can come up with ours.
> 
> As said again, to you these freedom fighters are terrorists, for us they aren't, same case was for Mukti Bani, you helped them as they seemed to be oppressed and freedom fighters for you, for us they were and are terrorists to this day.



Right Taimi but you have to understand that there is a big difference.. See india helped when lot of people came flooding towards indian borders.. so there is a situation there... lets take an example consider you are big man in your area and if people come to your gate for help will you keep quite??.. no you will intervene right and you wont be foolish to intervene on your own?? this is what india did.. it is absolutely your fault for 71.. 

Further my argument stays on this if Pakistan says it has liberated Azad kashmir from India it should not use them to attack India.. they are liberated let them grow on there own.. let them have there own infra,education,economy.... Instead ISI use these people for there own welfare... India didnt have any reason to intervene until we found a large number people come flooding to our gates... So when people of JK comes to your gate flooding for help... you can surely raise this to UN.. at that time the whole world will back you... but I guess there are no such incident where people are flooding to your borders right???...

So my argument still on brainwashing youths in P0K is still equal to killing of the people by sending them to Indian border... 

Futher how can you say these are freedom fighters?? are you comparing them to your Father Mr Jinnah who was one of the greatest?? no way i dont accept that.. they are terrorist because they are not soldiers.. let ISI make them soldiers and fight against us directly by declaring war on us then we will accept them as soldiers... until then they are terrorist and the whole world will call them so...

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## rafay321

kingdurgaking said:


> Mr Krisha need not get frustated at all.. he just spoke very calmly ... where as we can see your minister under pressure.. Pressure from your president i guess may be his appraisal was nearing...
> Our Minister facts are right on nail..
> we are conducting elections and 60&#37; turn over rate is recorded.. very high compared to other states
> All facilities like education is provided to people of JK.. People enjoy all rights ... they hold indian passports... If they dont want to be indian they can tear it give it to the district collector... i guess no such incidents are reported...
> Issues are purely created by terrorist and geelani.. If youths are not brainwashed for sure peace will be there in JK.. I have some reports where youths of JK actively participate in Army recruitment...
> 
> Please post similar facts on P0K... what is the literacy rate ... what are the developments provided etc etc..
> 
> 
> Secondly pakistan is in biggest mess.. since the begining of decade it is fighting war.. your economy is a war torn economy... please post any development your country is proposing apart from defence.. all your dealings are only w.r.t defence.. Any educational transaction with any country??.. any big infrastructure investment??? any country has invested there money in your country?? if so who what is the %... kindly compare that with india... what are the employment features your country is providing for outsiders??? what is the stake of pakistan in other countries...
> 
> Please answer some of the above questions you will understand which minister is making fun of whom???



The red part does not deserve an answer really. Its like total bs. Your own government has disagreed to what you have just typed, several times. 

I agree with the green part. Of course US imposed the WOT on us and the past decade we have been dealing with it. You are right in what you have said in the green part on almost everything. Do you know that India would not develop by 1% if it was fighting a war like we have been. Anyhow the WOT is in its last chapter. Pakistan will be back on track once US leaves our *** for good. 

As a Pakistani i always denounce US policy of forcing us into war, destroying our economy and then giving us aid. Better it leaves the region and let us build our country. 

Just an eye opener for you, analyze our economy in the pats 6 decades. It has been, extremely good and extremely bad. Extremely bad only during war times. 71, 80s and the whole first decade of the 21st century. 

Once in peaceful time conditions we have the ability to grow. 

India enjoyed progress over Pak because of things Pakistan has veen dealing ever since 9/11. Let it end and you will see the progress.


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## ice_man

kingdurgaking said:


> Right Taimi but you have to understand that there is a big difference.. See india helped when lot of people came flooding towards indian borders.. so there is a situation there... lets take an example consider you are big man in your area and if people come to your gate for help will you keep quite??.. no you will intervene right and you wont be foolish to intervene on your own?? this is what india did.. it is absolutely your fault for 71..
> 
> Further my argument stays on this if Pakistan says it has liberated Azad kashmir from India it should not use them to attack India.. they are liberated let them grow on there own.. let them have there own infra,education,economy.... Instead ISI use these people for there own welfare... India didnt have any reason to intervene until we found a large number people come flooding to our gates... So when people of JK comes to your gate flooding for help... you can surely raise this to UN.. at that time the whole world will back you... but I guess there are no such incident where people are flooding to your borders right???...
> 
> So my argument still on brainwashing youths in P0K is still equal to killing of the people by sending them to Indian border...
> 
> Futher how can you say these are freedom fighters?? are you comparing them to your Father Mr Jinnah who was one of the greatest?? no way i dont accept that.. they are terrorist because they are not soldiers.. let ISI make them soldiers and fight against us directly by declaring war on us then we will accept them as soldiers... until then they are terrorist and the whole world will call them so...



 what total BS direct from NDTV or SUNNY DEOL MOVIE! 

look the world recognizes kashmir to be a disputed territory end of story! man seriously go read what you wrote brain washing people sending them over! currently the uprising in kashmir is kashmiris who are tired of being oppressed by india!


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## kingdurgaking

ice_man said:


> what total BS direct from NDTV or SUNNY DEOL MOVIE!
> 
> look the world recognizes kashmir to be a disputed territory end of story! man seriously go read what you wrote brain washing people sending them over! currently the uprising in kashmir is kashmiris who are tired of being oppressed by india!



There is nothing BS in that .... All are straight facts... Kashmir looks disputed for you... we have put our stance that it is our integral part ... how ever you argue we will not move away from it... And as far sending terrorist to india and getting killed by our army is equal to the act of killing them by your own ISI/Army.. 

As far as uprising is concerned it is an act of brainwashing the youth by getting themselves involved in violence and it is a very small group hardly some hundred... Uprising can be done on non violent ways which works better in India ... If you call those youths and ask them what do you mean by independence?? then will not be able to utter the spelling of it... so they are not aware of the cause for there struggle... then what it is called??not brainwashing?? ...There are news out there to prove my argument


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## kingdurgaking

rafay321 said:


> The red part does not deserve an answer really. Its like total bs. Your own government has disagreed to what you have just typed, several times.
> 
> I agree with the green part. Of course US imposed the WOT on us and the past decade we have been dealing with it. You are right in what you have said in the green part on almost everything. Do you know that India would not develop by 1% if it was fighting a war like we have been. Anyhow the WOT is in its last chapter. Pakistan will be back on track once US leaves our *** for good.
> 
> As a Pakistani i always denounce US policy of forcing us into war, destroying our economy and then giving us aid. Better it leaves the region and let us build our country.
> 
> Just an eye opener for you, analyze our economy in the pats 6 decades. It has been, extremely good and extremely bad. Extremely bad only during war times. 71, 80s and the whole first decade of the 21st century.
> 
> Once in peaceful time conditions we have the ability to grow.
> 
> India enjoyed progress over Pak because of things Pakistan has veen dealing ever since 9/11. Let it end and you will see the progress.



I dont think election result , education, employment in JK are something our government disagreed??.. am i missing some news?? can you post some fact on it??


secondly on growth part... let us assume the fact that india would not have grown even 1% if it had joined war... so as per your stats we were intelligent enough to stay away from war right? and we concentrated on the growth part.. which seems to be a fair one.... 
Dont you think it has to be on similar lines by your leaders who has to think on national interest??.. If you feel that your economy has been destroyed and the WoT has pushed your country into the list of failed state index dont you think you should have exited the War immediately?? Why your leaders havent exited still??? which proves that GoP/ISI/Army have coupled your country tightly to the revenue of war.. which means you have to continue fight for survival... And if you fight your economy will fall further.... so i guess your country is trapped in a bad situation.. 

When you answer all these you will unearth more troubles waiting for you... .. US has played a nice game by roping you to the war.. Which will never end for you...


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## Illusive

Pakistan has always needled India in this Kashmir issue, wars fought yet nothing came in hand. A secret agreement was close to being signed between the two countries to make the LOC permanent border, but didn't work.

Whenever Pakistan has gone beyond its boundaries to seize influence has only brought disaster to Pakistani people in the guise of Taliban. Not only is it a threat to India and global peace, its a threat to itself.Now it has 2 threats Taliban and India.

P.O.K is an important region of strategic impotance. It connects China to Pak. If Pak keeps on pushing their agenda, India would really be assertive in their stance then and would really take it to P.O.K .

All i wanna say is, Pak should be happy with P.O.K . If it goes from their hand, then they would be loosing big time and can forget about any links to China.


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## rafay321

kingdurgaking said:


> I dont think election result , education, employment in JK are something our government disagreed??.. am i missing some news?? can you post some fact on it??
> 
> 
> secondly on growth part... let us assume the fact that india would not have grown even 1&#37; if it had joined war... so as per your stats we were intelligent enough to stay away from war right? and we concentrated on the growth part.. which seems to be a fair one....
> Dont you think it has to be on similar lines by your leaders who has to think on national interest??.. If you feel that your economy has been destroyed and the WoT has pushed your country into the list of failed state index dont you think you should have exited the War immediately?? Why your leaders havent exited still??? which proves that GoP/ISI/Army have coupled your country tightly to the revenue of war.. which means you have to continue fight for survival... And if you fight your economy will fall further.... so i guess your country is trapped in a bad situation..
> 
> When you answer all these you will unearth more troubles waiting for you... .. US has played a nice game by roping you to the war.. Which will never end for you...




Your government accepts the fact that Kashmir is the most backward state with its people not getting equal economic and education opportunities. Lets go one step ahead and this is the state of Muslims all over India. Google yourself. International reports from several independent sources do not lie. Pakistan sending protesters across the border now?? You guys seriously need to RE-THINK. 

http://geo.tv/10-3-2010/72324.htm

If you want some Western or froeign sources then help yourself. 


US did not landed in your backyard and forced you to join them. It was done to us. There so no intelligence on part of Indians. You were simply never forced to be a part of it. Yes our government could have made some tough decisions but when the Bush was yacking that *"Every nation has a decision to make,. either they are with us or with the terrorists"* what do you expect when they were threatening openly in the UN. Dude you can't take panga with the USA. If it ever happens to Indian you will see. But i do agree that masses were ready and had we not joined the stupid WOT nothing would have happened to Pak. However, India would have tried its best to make US invade Pak after that. I agree we had to show some balls in 2001. 

*No we are not strangulated by Army or ISI. An ordinary Pakistani loves both of them just to clarify. *

We hate our corrupt government though and we hope to get rid of it soon and install a better government with the help of our votes.



Illusive said:


> Pakistan has always needled India in this Kashmir issue, wars fought yet nothing came in hand. A secret agreement was close to being signed between the two countries to make the LOC permanent border, but didn't work.
> 
> Whenever Pakistan has gone beyond its boundaries to seize influence has only brought disaster to Pakistani people in the guise of Taliban. Not only is it a threat to India and global peace, its a threat to itself.Now it has 2 threats Taliban and India.
> 
> P.O.K is an important region of strategic impotance. It connects China to Pak. If Pak keeps on pushing their agenda, India would really be assertive in their stance then and would really take it to P.O.K .
> 
> All i wanna say is, Pak should be happy with P.O.K . If it goes from their hand, then they would be loosing big time and can forget about any links to China.



What makes you think that Azad Kashmir is going out of Pak hands. Is it the latest wet dream i should add to the list? 

WOW. So you are saying Pakistan should drop its claim on IOK? HA HA HA. Did it ever happen in 6 decades? Dude you need to get out of your arrogance. Its a disputed territory with no international border. Same goes for India. If Pak ever adventures into IOK it will not be seen as invasion of India because it never crossed the international border. So please get back into your senses if you have some. Its IOK that is clearly slipping. You are only holding it by force. If USSR could not hold itself then India is not even 50% of what USSR was. 

Stick to your arrogance and over confidence until the reality bomb explodes in your face.

BTW Talibans are not a threat to us. The fake TTP was a threat that has been crushed. The real Taliban are in Afghanistan and North Waziristan fighting against foreign forces not the State of Pakistan and its army. It was a nice attempt on part of CIA and RAW to change the local opinion but why do you always forget that others have a mind too. 

We dont care about Taliban and what they do in Afghanistan as long as they do not allow India to use Afghan land against us.

P.S ...Krishna should be really really worried about the ISI's and Haqqani's diwali in Afghanistan when US leaves. I think he is that's why he is giving such blunt senseless statements.

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## Hawkish

The Reality is: There are very few takers of Kashmir cause in the world. Even Saud and China who are close friends of Pakistan remain neutral. Pakistan is slowly establishing themselves as a rouge nation. Most view Pakistan as Taliban supporters as well as the cause of violence in Kashmir. Because of this even the factual Indian military killings in Kashmir gets side tracked or not given importance in the news. Our support is more and more becoming tactical to Pakistan. More incidents like the recent one- closing of NATO shipment route will push us apart and isolate Pakistan. The worsst of all is the pak government which is highly ineffective. An Army rule will bring in much benefits

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## T90TankGuy

before i post i would like to appoligise in advance if it hurts any ones feelings

i see on this forum that a lot of people blame their goverment for the state pakistan is in , having said that do you really think that pakistan is better off with a demoracy then a military ruler? after all pakistan recorded its gretest forward growth under military rule . just a question for my pakistani friends


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## Rafi

Indian-held Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah ruffled quite a few feathers when he said what must have appeared as heresy to New Delhi.

Speaking in the legislature of the disputed territory on Thursday, the chief minister scuttled the very basis of the Indian case in Kashmir when he emphasised two points: one, Jammu and Kashmir never merged with India and two, it was an international dispute. No wonder this earned him the immediate wrath of the right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party, which accused him of being anti-national. Mr Abdullah said Kashmir was a dispute between two neighbours and the explosive situation in the valley needed a political solution. This extraordinarily blunt talk goes against New Delhi&#8217;s decades-old official line &#8212; that Kashmir is an &#8216;integral part&#8217; of India. While the analogy he drew between Kashmir on the one side and Hyderabad and Junagadh on the other doesn&#8217;t concern us here, what deserves to be noted is the background against which Mr Abdullah seems to have been forced to utter words that under normal circumstances he would not have considered prudent to go public with. But such is the impact of the protests now rocking Indian-held Kashmir that the chief minister had no choice but to say something off the beaten track to serve as a sop to the valley&#8217;s angry youth.

One major concern for Mr Abdullah must be the realisation that men like him are in danger of being swept away if they do not appear to be sympathetic to the current sentiments in Kashmir, the people&#8217;s total disillusionment with Indian rule and the fatalities which have reached more than 100 since the current wave of protests began on June 11. That he was critical of the Indian authorities&#8217; reliance on force to tackle the protests was obvious when he said the situation needed a political solution. Kashmir, he said, was a political issue, and &#8220;it cannot be addressed through development, employment and good governance&#8221;. This is the crux of the matter. The political issue Mr Abdullah spoke of revolves around a principle which cannot be denied to the Kashmiri people &#8212; their right to self-determination.

DAWN.COM | Editorial | Kashmir?s status


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