# Gilgit-Baltistan's liberation



## WAJsal

Now we all know that Pakistan got independence on August 14 , 1947 , *what most of us don’t know is that after 3 months Gilgit-Baltistan got it’s independence .*

The history of Gilgit Baltistan can be divided into the following periods:

Pre-History: The earliest inhabitants of the Gilgit-Baltistan can be traced back to 5th millennium BC They were known as Rock Art People as they started the tradition of rock carving which was continued by their successors. They were hunters and lived in rocks. There is a general perception that they had religion having faith in mountains.


Megalith Builders: These people came from Chitral and Swat and had the tradition of building large megaliths. They used to have a ceremonial carved stone in the middle which was worshiped. They used metals like copper, bronze, iron, gold and silver. They developed irrigated fields and also depended on livestock like goat, sheep and other cattle. They lived in mud houses as temporary settlement.


Dardic People:According to some historians, the Dardics lived in the present Gilgit Baltistan during the Achaemenian Empire (4th century B.C). Their economic activities included mining and trading gold. This led to the establishment of a trade route with Central Asia and China.


Scytho Parthians: Various rock inscriptions around Chilas suggest that the Scythians from Central Asia had established their rule in this area around the first century BC The rule of Scythians resulted in the introduction of Kharosthi script and Taxila style stupas and establishment of close trade relations with Taxila. The Scythian rule lasted only two generations between 1 B.C and 1 A.D. This was followed by the Gondophares branch of Parthians. The influence of the Parthians on local culture is evident from the rock carvings of this era which depict some new themes other than those of the earliest inhabitants.


The Kushans: The Khushans moved to Northern Areas between 1 B.C and 1 A.D who had already established their rule in Central Asia and China. They used gold for trade purposes and a route passed through Northern Area which was perhaps the Silk Route on which the current Karakoram Highway has been constructed.


The Post Kushans: After the Kushans, the Sassanis from Persia controlled the area in the beginning of 3rd century AD. During that period, Buddhism continued to flourish and this area remained a famous crossing point for travel to and from India, China and Central Asia.


The Huns: These were tribes from Central Asia who were warriors. They ruled through several Shina and Burushaski kings called 'Rajas'. By that time, Buddhism was still on its way of spreading.


Medieval to Modern Time


With the decline of Huns, the Rajas became independent. From 612 to 750 AD, the areas were ruled by Patoal Shahi Dynasty who were Buddhists and had close ties with Chinese empire. Between 7th Century and early 19th century, parts of the Gilgit-Baltistan were ruled by succession of various dynasties including: Tarkhans of Gilgit, the Maghlots of Nagar, the Ayashok of Hunza, the Burshai of Punyal, the Maqpoons of Skardu, the Anchans of Shigar and the Yabgos of Khaplu. In the beginning of 8th century AD the Tarkhan rulers embraced Islam. In the medieval times, Gilgit-Baltistan remained outside Mughal control although Akbar conquered Kashmir and parts of Baltistan while Gilgit retained its independent status until the Gilgit-Baltistan came under the control of Dogra rulers of Kashmir in the middle of 18th century. By the end of 19th century, the British Government created the Gilgit agency and appointed a political agent, under a lease agreement with Maharaja Hari Singh of Kashmir. In 1947, the people of Gilgit Baltistan fought against the Maharaja and got independence.



Before partition of the sub-Continent, the state of Jammu and Kashmir with a total area of 84471 square miles, was geographically divided into following three big regions:


1. Jammu Province (12,378 sq. miles)


2. Kashmir Province (8,539 sq.)


3. Frontier Province of Ladakh and Gilgit (63,554 sq)


In 1947, a part of the state gained independence and was called Azad Jammu and Kashmir, which has an area of 5,134 square miles. While 29,814 square miles chunk of the Frontier Province of Ladakh and Gilgit after winning freedom came under the administrative control of Pakistan through an agreement. This is the area now called Northern Areas. The rest of the Frontier province i.e. 3,3740 sq. miles area of Ladakh is under Indian occupation.


Constitutional Position


Historically these areas belong to Dogra State of Jammu and Kashmir. On March 29, 1935, the British government took possession of Gilgit Agency from the state government, through a lease agreement for 60 years. The British feared of the Soviet expansionist moves, and therefore wanted to have direct control in the region. During this period the state flag remained hoisted over residency along with the Union Jack. However by August 1, 1947, the areas were returned to the state government , because the British had decided partitioning of the Indian sub-continent.
The liberation


On November 1, 1947 Gilgit-Baltistan became a republic and 15 days later acceded to Pakistan .Through a jointly formed armed struggle of the local people, the Gilgit Scouts and the Muslim officers of the Maharaja’s army, the area was liberated on November 1, 1947 and an interim government constituted under Raja Shah Rais Khan of Gilgit.The main reason being that : the people wanted to be a part of Pakistan but the governor had other plans , and then what the chain of reaction that unfold .








The national flag

The government of Pakistan was invited through a telegram to take control of the areas. Responding to this request Sardar Muhammad Alam (A tehsildar in the NWFP government at that time) was appointed and sent to Gilgit on 16th November, as government of Pakistan’s political agent.







President Shah Rais Khan








Army Chief Mirza Hassan, first from left, Quarter Master Babar Khan and

Chief of General Staff Saeed Durrani.








Political Agent Ghulam Haider, first from left, Inspector General Police Abdul

Hameed and Member Revolutionary Council Muhammad Khan.








ADC to Army Chief Shah Khan, left, and Advisor to the

government Major Brown.




William Alexander Brown, known as Major Brown played an important role in Gilgit Rebellion, and ensured that these areas remain under control of Pakistan. Major Brown must have done something worthwhile that he was awarded MBE by the British government; and a medal from Pakistan known as Star of Pakistan.


Let us briefly look at the role of Major Brown.

• He was born on 22 December 1922 and came to India in December 1941;

• He became an officer of Frontier Force Regiment which was later converted to Gilgit Scouts in 1943.

• He served Gilgit Scouts for 3 years and also learnt Pashto and Sheena languages;

• He was appointed Assistant Political Agent for Chilas;

• Between 1946 and July 1947 he served as an officer in Tochi Scouts and Chitral Scouts;

• Because of his good rapport with the Gilgit Scouts, knowledge of the region and importance of these areas he was made a Commander of Gilgit Scouts on 29th July 1947;

• He was an employee of the Jammu and Kashmir government up till 1st November 1947 when the Gilgit Rebellion took place.


Colonel Bacon who was a Political Agent of Gilgit met Major Brown and told him that Lord Mountbatten has decided to return areas of Gilgit Baltistan to the Ruler of Jammu and Kashmir on 1st August 1947. It was possible that the Maharaja could have appointed his own man as a head of Gilgit Scouts, but the British wanted to ensure that their trusted man is in control of the Gilgit Scouts – the only military force in the region.


Major Brown in his book ‘The Gilgit Rebellion’ notes, and I quote: ‘All Gilgit wanted was the peace and security afforded under the Pax Britannica and the method by which this could have been continued, despite partition, would have been to have made the Gilgit Agency an agency of the North West Frontier Province, directly under THE Governor. This would have ensured continuity in administration, peace, security, and unity: infertile ground for Soviet seed. My duty was obvious. I must return to Gilgit and lead, advise and help the people over the transition period.’ Unquote


Source: Independence of Gilgit Baltistan, by Ghulam Rasool, page 122


So one can see his mission was clear. Although he was an employee of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir but his loyalty was not with him. On 30th July 1947 Brigadier Gansara Singh as a Governor of the area and accompanied by General Scott and Captain Saeed Durrani reached Gilgit by air. A large crowed consisting of army officials, Gilgit Scouts, rulers of different regions and other notables welcome them.


Major Brown very quickly re-established his contacts with all important rulers of different regions and officers of the Gilgit Scouts, some of them were his personal friends and trusted colleagues. He also strengthened communal sentiments within the Gilgit Scouts, Jammu and Kashmir Army and among the ruling elite. In his book, The Kashmir Rebellion, Major Brown writes an account of a meeting with a son of Ruler of Nagar, Raja Muzaffar Ul Din Shah who said, and I quote:


‘If Kashmir remains independent, well and good. We shall be independent here but we can also keep friendliest relationship with our brothers in Pakistan. If Kashmir accedes to Pakistan even better. But if the Maharaja through pig – headedness, bad advice, political pressure or attractive remuneration accedes to Hindustan, then there will be trouble here.’ Unquote


Raja Muzaffar Ul Din Shah further advises Major Brown, as to how he should handle the Gilgit Scouts – the only local armed force in the event of Kashmir joining India, because some units of the Gilgit Scouts were unpredictable and 6th Battalion of the Kashmir Infantry stationed at Bunji ‘would soon put an end to an insurrection of any sort.’


Major Brown also secretly won over support of some Muslim officers of the Maharaja army, which included Captain Hassan, Captain Saeed Durani, Captain Mohammed Khan and Lieutenant Ghulam Haider. One night during a drink session Captain Saeed and Captain Mohammed Khan said: ‘the Maharaja should remain independent, but if he joins India then as a true Muslims he will resign from the Kashmir Army.


The last straw was Major Brown’s disagreement over some administrative issue with Governor’s staff that came from Srinagar. The Governor sided with his staff; and Major Brown got extremely angry and locked himself up in a room to analyse the situation and plan his future action. In his book, The Gilgit Rebellion, Major Brown writes, and I quote:


‘I, therefore, felt it was my duty, as the only Britisher left, to follow a course which would prevent this. And further, as a liberal member of the world’s paragon of democracy, I considered that the whole of Kashmir, including Gilgit Province, unquestionably go to Pakistan in view of the fact that the population was predominantly Muslim. Partisan, traitor, revolutionary, I may have been, but that evening my sentiments dictated that if the Maharaja acceded to India, then I would forego all the allegiance to him and I would not rest content until I had done the utmost in my power to ensure that not only the Gilgit Province joined Pakistan, but the whole of Kashmir also.’ Unquote


Source: Independence of Gilgit Baltistan, by Ghulam Rasool, page 133


On 30th October 1947, Colonel Bacon, after his farewell party gave briefing to Major Brown, and concluded: “I give the Kashmir Administration three months in Gilgit. Then something will happen.”


Source: Independence of Gilgit Baltistan, by Ghulam Rasool, page 124


That something happened as predicted or planned; and sequence of events is very important in this. The Pakistani government, which included the British officials on key posts, hoped that the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir would join Pakistan, but once they realised that the Maharaja was not prepared to accede to Pakistan they managed the Tribal Invasion.


• Pakistani officials violated the Standstill Agreement with the Maharaja and the Tribal Invasion of Kashmir started on 22 October 1947;

• Realising threat to his throne and his people, the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir asked India for help;

• Indian government asked the Maharaja to accede to India, which he did under pressure;

• The accession was provisionally accepted and the Indian forces landed in Srinagar on the morning of 27th October.

During all this time nothing happened in Gilgit Baltistan. Those who didn’t want Kashmir to become a part of India, or at least, Gilgit Baltistan to go to India, planned the tribal invasion hoping that they will have strategically important areas of the State under their control.


After the ‘Provisional accession’ on 26th October the Indian forces reached Srinagar on the morning of 27th October; but those who planned and controlled the tribal invasion did not do anything in Gilgit Baltistan because they hoped that Srinagar would be captured. Once they realised that the tribesmen were only good against the civilians, and they quickly retreated after encountering the Indian army, they gave a green signal to Major Brown and the much talked the Gilgit Rebellion took place on 1st of November 1947.


Ghansara(the governor) was alone, but armed. He wasn’t a coward and kept resisting the scouts who were asking him to come out in the dark night and surrender. Flickers danced in the darkness for hundredth parts of a second as Ghansara Singh and the Scouts exchanged fire. Suddenly a bullet pierced through the body of Sepoy Amir Hayat, a member of Hunza Platoon, making him the first martyr of Gilgit – Baltistan’s war of independence.

The exchange of fire increased as the scouts learnt of their comrade’s martyrdom and, soon, Ghansara Singh was without any ammunition. He came out, hands up, and was arrested. It was the first morning of November. The year was 1947.The independent Islamic republic of Gilgit, “Islami Jamhuria Gilgit”, had been founded. Shah Raees was nominated president of the republic. The Gilgit – Scout was being led by Babar Khan, Ehsan Ali and Shah Khan. They were joined by rebellious Muslim officers of Kashmir Infantry, including the charismatic Col Mirza Hasan Khan, Major Durrani and Major Jaral, among others. A revolutionary council was formed and tasked to work closely with the revolutionary government. Col Hassan became the supreme commander of the revolutionary scouts, divided into three companies; the Tiger, the Ibex and the Eskimo led by Babar, Ehsan and Shah Khan, respectively.

The rebellious Gilgit – Scout, then, marched towards Bonji Garrison, forwarding the war of independence. It wasn’t an ordinary occasion. The subjects had risen to reclaim their independence from the masters after decades of silence. The government of Pakistan came to their help, at later stages, and the Dogra Forces were chased out of the region. Seventy two thousand square miles of land were liberated by the poorly armed, poorly trained, semi – military organization.

* Major William Alexander Brown,MBE,Sitara e Pakistan-British Scot Leader of Gilgit Rebellion*




In December 1941 he sailed for India and was selected for the Officer Training School Bangalore,receiving his commission as a second lieutenant in the 10/12 Frontier Force Regiment.


Soon after being commissioned he was transferred to the frontier scouts and served in South Waziristan Scouts with which he fell in love.He here acquired proficiency in Pashto.In early 1943 Brown was posted as APA in Chilas where he built a polo ground.Here he acquired proficiency in the local language Shina as well as Burushaski.In 1946 he was posted to the Tochi Scouts in North Waziristan.In June 1947 he was posted to Chitral as Acting Commandant of Chitral Scouts.


On way to Chitral he was posted as Commandant of Gilgit Scouts in view of new developments as Lord Mountbatten had decided to transfer back lease of Gilgit to Kashmir state.He was promoted to rank of major and arrived in Gilgit on 29 July 1947.Gilgit was handed over to Jammu and Kashmir state on 1 August 1947 and the British flag lowered.He was now 25 years old.


In October 1947 the unofficial Kashmir war began.The Maharaja of Kashmir decided to disband Gilgit Scouts as it was an All Muslim unit and feared a revolt.To pre-empt this the Gilgit Scouts planned a rebellion.They found an unexpected ally in major Brown who decided to lead them.On 31 October 1947 Major Brown led the Gilgit Rebellion as a result f which Northern Areas and Baltistan were captured by Gilgit Scouts and the area aceded to Pakistan.Major Brown planned all major attacks of the Gilgit Scouts.He returned to Pakistan from Gilgit in January 1948.









In July 1948 the British Government awarded him an MBE with a very vague citation.This proves that his actions were accepted as that of a hero in higher quarters of the British Empire.He joined the ICI and stayed on in Pakistan till 1959.In July 1957 he married Margaret Rosemary Cooksley who was serving in the British High Commission at Karachi from whom he had a son named William in 1958.

Brown died of a heart attack on 5 December 1984.

He was posthumously awarded Pakistan's highest civilian award Sitara e Pakistan on 23 March 1994.


This in fact does not highlight all the heroes of this liberation war .

Links for further information .

News | Report on 1947 events in Gilgit Agency (part I)

CSIO: Major William Alexander Brown,MBE,Sitara e Pakistan-British Scot Leader of Gilgit Rebellion

GB Tribune: History & Dispute

Radio Pakistan
jarralwebsite

@Atanz , there is a book by William A. Brown . Very informative . Here is a link for it . 
Gilgit Rebelion: The Major Who Mutinied Over Partition of India - William Brown - Google Books





Such a shame , even to this date the region is not enjoying the same rights as the rest of the country . 
Gilgit as a fifth province

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## WAJsal

Hope it was informative guys .
@IrbiS , @Shamain , @Atanz , @Hyperion , @Arsalan , @Gufi , @farhan_9909 , @Color_Less_Sky ,@Green Arrow , @Irfan Baloch , @Slav Defence , @Jango , @Jungibaaz , @fatman17 ,@Horus , @WebMaster , @jamahir ,@Jazzbot ,@Akheilos , @syedali73 ,@Windjammer , @DESERT FIGHTER ,@Secur , @Dr. Stranglove , @Armstrong ,@Icarus @Donatello @krash , @Gikmet Baltee @waz .................

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## IrbiS



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## Kompromat

Our kin in Indian occupied Kashmir shall see brighter days too.

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## The Great One

Horus said:


> Our kin in Indian occupied Kashmir shall see brighter days too.


Yes, Once Article 370 is revoked. They shall enjoy the fruits of India's growth
Indian economy to grow at 8.1% in 2015-16: UN report

Meanwhile in Pakistan
Pakistan to see 4.1% growth this year, well below target

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## Cherokee

Horus said:


> Our kin in Indian occupied Kashmir shall see brighter days too.



They definitely will , the way India is growing  .

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## Kabira

Great post, I finally read about inner details of G-B liberation.

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## WAJsal

save_ghenda said:


> Great post, I finally read about inner details about G-B liberation.


Thank you for the kind words . Check the book out too , if you want more details . 
Gilgit Rebelion: The Major Who Mutinied Over Partition of India - William Brown - Google Books

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## scorpionx

Another very informative piece from you,WAJsal. It deserves positive ratings definitely.

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## unbiasedopinion

Horus said:


> Our kin in Indian occupied Kashmir shall see brighter days too.


Even pakistan occupied kashmir people will see brighter days soon...matter of few more years...


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## WAJsal

scorpionx said:


> Another very informative piece from you,WAJsal. It deserves positive ratings definitely.


So where is that positive rating ? lolz  . 
So you have read my other piece too , didn't know . Always share your thoughts when you read it . did you read this ? 
What has obstructed Pakistan's rise .

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## unbiasedopinion

WAJsal said:


> Before partition of the sub-Continent, the state of Jammu and Kashmir with a total area of 84471 square miles, was geographically divided into following three big regions:
> 
> 
> 1. Jammu Province (12,378 sq. miles)
> 
> 
> 2. Kashmir Province (8,539 sq.)
> 
> 
> 3. Frontier Province of Ladakh and Gilgit (63,554 sq)



How come Ladakh and Gilgit be clubbed under one when they were distance apart?


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## WAJsal

unbiasedopinion said:


> How come Ladakh and Gilgit be clubbed under one when they were distance apart?


Ask the British .


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## unbiasedopinion

So again, it was revolt by those who were occupying the power seats and decided the fate of the region. No civilian was involved in deciding the fate of the region. Few traitors revolted and took the advantage of the situation, did mutiny and got a piece of land as a separate country...and then by themselves become kind and declared their alliance towards Pakistan.



WAJsal said:


> Ask the British .


THey are worth nothing to reply..They left subcontinent in such a mess that we are still struggling to settle it. If they really wanted a stable region, they would had cleaned their dirty linen by themselves rather than leaving it.


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## scorpionx

WAJsal said:


> So where is that positive rating ? lolz  .
> So you have read my other piece too , didn't know . Always share your thoughts when you read it . did you read this ?
> What has obstructed Pakistan's rise .


Unfortunately, in this section there is no option to rate positive. And yes, I have read that article too. You are writing pretty good stuffs. Keep it up.

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## WAJsal

unbiasedopinion said:


> So again, it was revolt by those who were occupying the power seats and decided the fate of the region. No civilian was involved in deciding the fate of the region. Few traitors revolted and took the advantage of the situation, did mutiny and got a piece of land as a separate country...and then by themselves become kind and declared their alliance towards Pakistan.


The area was Muslim dominated and the governor wanted to become a part of India , which was not acceptable by the people . Thus ,the northern light infantry (army ) decided to overthrow him and took over the region . A president was appointed and through mutual understanding GB became a part of Pakistan . 
Plus the governor was overthrow ed by the people as well as the scouts . Now read , before posting .



scorpionx said:


> Unfortunately, in this section there is no option to rate positive. And yes, I have read that article too. You are writing pretty good stuffs. Keep it up.


Why no positive rating . Lolz , my efforts in vain . 
Thank you .

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## Shamain

It made me sad.


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## Areesh

Salute to officers like Major Brown, Col Mirza Hasan Khan,Major Durrani and Major Jaral as they were the one who made first liberation and then accession of GB to Pakistan possible.

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## Shamain

Insaan hamesha zameen kay leay larta rahay ga.

Anyways,of this part, 

"• Indian government asked the Maharaja to accede to India, which he did under pressure;

• The accession was provisionally accepted and the Indian forces landed in Srinagar on the morning of 27th October."


The accession had never happened, india had always lied abt instrument f accession, there was never one issued by maha raja.

******** ,kashmir tau hum lay kay rahain gay.
Yaad rakhna Pakistani kabhi apni cheez chortay nahi.

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## 45'22'

Hadn't Pakistan attacked the state of JnK things would have been different now.....

The attack on the state made the Maharaja to accede JnK to India....


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## Areesh

45'22' said:


> Hadn't Pakistan attacked the state of JnK things would have been different now.....
> 
> The attack on the state made the Maharaja to accede JnK to India....



Hadn't Pakistan attack Kashmir, Jammu type massacre would have been conducted all over the state of Kashmir resulting in changing the demographics like in Jammu and thus resulting in Pakistan getting nothing while India getting whole of Kashmir, while in this case we at least got 86000 sq km of territory.

And we didn't attack Kashmir. It was Muslims of Jammu who revolted against the Hindu ruler and liberated areas of today's Azad Kashmir. We only sent irregulars to help them in their fight. What history you guys are told is bogus and full of lies.

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## 45'22'

Areesh said:


> Hadn't Pakistan attack Kashmir, Jammu type massacre would have been conducted all over the state of Kashmir resulting in changing the demographics like in Jammu and thus resulting in Pakistan getting nothing while India getting whole of Kashmir, while in this case we at least got 86000 sq km of territory.


You are assuming this....
India wasn't in the picture...

My guess is...Kashmir would have been another country in 1 or 2 decades..


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## Areesh

45'22' said:


> You are assuming this....
> India wasn't in the picture...
> 
> My guess is...Kashmir would have been another country in 1 or 2 decades..



There was 0 chances of Kashmir being another country. 
And India was always in the picture with Hindu raja killing his own people to change demographics and extremists from India helping him in this case.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

WAJsal said:


> Now we all know that Pakistan got independence on August 14 , 1947 , *what most of us don’t know is that after 3 months Gilgit-Baltistan got it’s independence .*
> 
> The history of Gilgit Baltistan can be divided into the following periods:
> 
> Pre-History: The earliest inhabitants of the Gilgit-Baltistan can be traced back to 5th millennium BC They were known as Rock Art People as they started the tradition of rock carving which was continued by their successors. They were hunters and lived in rocks. There is a general perception that they had religion having faith in mountains.
> 
> 
> Megalith Builders: These people came from Chitral and Swat and had the tradition of building large megaliths. They used to have a ceremonial carved stone in the middle which was worshiped. They used metals like copper, bronze, iron, gold and silver. They developed irrigated fields and also depended on livestock like goat, sheep and other cattle. They lived in mud houses as temporary settlement.
> 
> 
> Dardic People:According to some historians, the Dardics lived in the present Gilgit Baltistan during the Achaemenian Empire (4th century B.C). Their economic activities included mining and trading gold. This led to the establishment of a trade route with Central Asia and China.
> 
> 
> Scytho Parthians: Various rock inscriptions around Chilas suggest that the Scythians from Central Asia had established their rule in this area around the first century BC The rule of Scythians resulted in the introduction of Kharosthi script and Taxila style stupas and establishment of close trade relations with Taxila. The Scythian rule lasted only two generations between 1 B.C and 1 A.D. This was followed by the Gondophares branch of Parthians. The influence of the Parthians on local culture is evident from the rock carvings of this era which depict some new themes other than those of the earliest inhabitants.
> 
> 
> The Kushans: The Khushans moved to Northern Areas between 1 B.C and 1 A.D who had already established their rule in Central Asia and China. They used gold for trade purposes and a route passed through Northern Area which was perhaps the Silk Route on which the current Karakoram Highway has been constructed.
> 
> 
> The Post Kushans: After the Kushans, the Sassanis from Persia controlled the area in the beginning of 3rd century AD. During that period, Buddhism continued to flourish and this area remained a famous crossing point for travel to and from India, China and Central Asia.
> 
> 
> The Huns: These were tribes from Central Asia who were warriors. They ruled through several Shina and Burushaski kings called 'Rajas'. By that time, Buddhism was still on its way of spreading.
> 
> 
> Medieval to Modern Time
> 
> 
> With the decline of Huns, the Rajas became independent. From 612 to 750 AD, the areas were ruled by Patoal Shahi Dynasty who were Buddhists and had close ties with Chinese empire. Between 7th Century and early 19th century, parts of the Gilgit-Baltistan were ruled by succession of various dynasties including: Tarkhans of Gilgit, the Maghlots of Nagar, the Ayashok of Hunza, the Burshai of Punyal, the Maqpoons of Skardu, the Anchans of Shigar and the Yabgos of Khaplu. In the beginning of 8th century AD the Tarkhan rulers embraced Islam. In the medieval times, Gilgit-Baltistan remained outside Mughal control although Akbar conquered Kashmir and parts of Baltistan while Gilgit retained its independent status until the Gilgit-Baltistan came under the control of Dogra rulers of Kashmir in the middle of 18th century. By the end of 19th century, the British Government created the Gilgit agency and appointed a political agent, under a lease agreement with Maharaja Hari Singh of Kashmir. In 1947, the people of Gilgit Baltistan fought against the Maharaja and got independence.
> 
> 
> 
> Before partition of the sub-Continent, the state of Jammu and Kashmir with a total area of 84471 square miles, was geographically divided into following three big regions:
> 
> 
> 1. Jammu Province (12,378 sq. miles)
> 
> 
> 2. Kashmir Province (8,539 sq.)
> 
> 
> 3. Frontier Province of Ladakh and Gilgit (63,554 sq)
> 
> 
> In 1947, a part of the state gained independence and was called Azad Jammu and Kashmir, which has an area of 5,134 square miles. While 29,814 square miles chunk of the Frontier Province of Ladakh and Gilgit after winning freedom came under the administrative control of Pakistan through an agreement. This is the area now called Northern Areas. The rest of the Frontier province i.e. 3,3740 sq. miles area of Ladakh is under Indian occupation.
> 
> 
> Constitutional Position
> 
> 
> Historically these areas belong to Dogra State of Jammu and Kashmir. On March 29, 1935, the British government took possession of Gilgit Agency from the state government, through a lease agreement for 60 years. The British feared of the Soviet expansionist moves, and therefore wanted to have direct control in the region. During this period the state flag remained hoisted over residency along with the Union Jack. However by August 1, 1947, the areas were returned to the state government , because the British had decided partitioning of the Indian sub-continent.
> The liberation
> 
> 
> On November 1, 1947 Gilgit-Baltistan became a republic and 15 days later acceded to Pakistan .Through a jointly formed armed struggle of the local people, the Gilgit Scouts and the Muslim officers of the Maharaja’s army, the area was liberated on November 1, 1947 and an interim government constituted under Raja Shah Rais Khan of Gilgit.The main reason being that : the people wanted to be a part of Pakistan but the governor had other plans , and then what the chain of reaction that unfold .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The national flag
> 
> The government of Pakistan was invited through a telegram to take control of the areas. Responding to this request Sardar Muhammad Alam (A tehsildar in the NWFP government at that time) was appointed and sent to Gilgit on 16th November, as government of Pakistan’s political agent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Shah Rais Khan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Army Chief Mirza Hassan, first from left, Quarter Master Babar Khan and
> 
> Chief of General Staff Saeed Durrani.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Political Agent Ghulam Haider, first from left, Inspector General Police Abdul
> 
> Hameed and Member Revolutionary Council Muhammad Khan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADC to Army Chief Shah Khan, left, and Advisor to the
> 
> government Major Brown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William Alexander Brown, known as Major Brown played an important role in Gilgit Rebellion, and ensured that these areas remain under control of Pakistan. Major Brown must have done something worthwhile that he was awarded MBE by the British government; and a medal from Pakistan known as Star of Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Let us briefly look at the role of Major Brown.
> 
> • He was born on 22 December 1922 and came to India in December 1941;
> 
> • He became an officer of Frontier Force Regiment which was later converted to Gilgit Scouts in 1943.
> 
> • He served Gilgit Scouts for 3 years and also learnt Pashto and Sheena languages;
> 
> • He was appointed Assistant Political Agent for Chilas;
> 
> • Between 1946 and July 1947 he served as an officer in Tochi Scouts and Chitral Scouts;
> 
> • Because of his good rapport with the Gilgit Scouts, knowledge of the region and importance of these areas he was made a Commander of Gilgit Scouts on 29th July 1947;
> 
> • He was an employee of the Jammu and Kashmir government up till 1st November 1947 when the Gilgit Rebellion took place.
> 
> 
> Colonel Bacon who was a Political Agent of Gilgit met Major Brown and told him that Lord Mountbatten has decided to return areas of Gilgit Baltistan to the Ruler of Jammu and Kashmir on 1st August 1947. It was possible that the Maharaja could have appointed his own man as a head of Gilgit Scouts, but the British wanted to ensure that their trusted man is in control of the Gilgit Scouts – the only military force in the region.
> 
> 
> Major Brown in his book ‘The Gilgit Rebellion’ notes, and I quote: ‘All Gilgit wanted was the peace and security afforded under the Pax Britannica and the method by which this could have been continued, despite partition, would have been to have made the Gilgit Agency an agency of the North West Frontier Province, directly under THE Governor. This would have ensured continuity in administration, peace, security, and unity: infertile ground for Soviet seed. My duty was obvious. I must return to Gilgit and lead, advise and help the people over the transition period.’ Unquote
> 
> 
> Source: Independence of Gilgit Baltistan, by Ghulam Rasool, page 122
> 
> 
> So one can see his mission was clear. Although he was an employee of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir but his loyalty was not with him. On 30th July 1947 Brigadier Gansara Singh as a Governor of the area and accompanied by General Scott and Captain Saeed Durrani reached Gilgit by air. A large crowed consisting of army officials, Gilgit Scouts, rulers of different regions and other notables welcome them.
> 
> 
> Major Brown very quickly re-established his contacts with all important rulers of different regions and officers of the Gilgit Scouts, some of them were his personal friends and trusted colleagues. He also strengthened communal sentiments within the Gilgit Scouts, Jammu and Kashmir Army and among the ruling elite. In his book, The Kashmir Rebellion, Major Brown writes an account of a meeting with a son of Ruler of Nagar, Raja Muzaffar Ul Din Shah who said, and I quote:
> 
> 
> ‘If Kashmir remains independent, well and good. We shall be independent here but we can also keep friendliest relationship with our brothers in Pakistan. If Kashmir accedes to Pakistan even better. But if the Maharaja through pig – headedness, bad advice, political pressure or attractive remuneration accedes to Hindustan, then there will be trouble here.’ Unquote
> 
> 
> Raja Muzaffar Ul Din Shah further advises Major Brown, as to how he should handle the Gilgit Scouts – the only local armed force in the event of Kashmir joining India, because some units of the Gilgit Scouts were unpredictable and 6th Battalion of the Kashmir Infantry stationed at Bunji ‘would soon put an end to an insurrection of any sort.’
> 
> 
> Major Brown also secretly won over support of some Muslim officers of the Maharaja army, which included Captain Hassan, Captain Saeed Durani, Captain Mohammed Khan and Lieutenant Ghulam Haider. One night during a drink session Captain Saeed and Captain Mohammed Khan said: ‘the Maharaja should remain independent, but if he joins India then as a true Muslims he will resign from the Kashmir Army.
> 
> 
> The last straw was Major Brown’s disagreement over some administrative issue with Governor’s staff that came from Srinagar. The Governor sided with his staff; and Major Brown got extremely angry and locked himself up in a room to analyse the situation and plan his future action. In his book, The Gilgit Rebellion, Major Brown writes, and I quote:
> 
> 
> ‘I, therefore, felt it was my duty, as the only Britisher left, to follow a course which would prevent this. And further, as a liberal member of the world’s paragon of democracy, I considered that the whole of Kashmir, including Gilgit Province, unquestionably go to Pakistan in view of the fact that the population was predominantly Muslim. Partisan, traitor, revolutionary, I may have been, but that evening my sentiments dictated that if the Maharaja acceded to India, then I would forego all the allegiance to him and I would not rest content until I had done the utmost in my power to ensure that not only the Gilgit Province joined Pakistan, but the whole of Kashmir also.’ Unquote
> 
> 
> Source: Independence of Gilgit Baltistan, by Ghulam Rasool, page 133
> 
> 
> On 30th October 1947, Colonel Bacon, after his farewell party gave briefing to Major Brown, and concluded: “I give the Kashmir Administration three months in Gilgit. Then something will happen.”
> 
> 
> Source: Independence of Gilgit Baltistan, by Ghulam Rasool, page 124
> 
> 
> That something happened as predicted or planned; and sequence of events is very important in this. The Pakistani government, which included the British officials on key posts, hoped that the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir would join Pakistan, but once they realised that the Maharaja was not prepared to accede to Pakistan they managed the Tribal Invasion.
> 
> 
> • Pakistani officials violated the Standstill Agreement with the Maharaja and the Tribal Invasion of Kashmir started on 22 October 1947;
> 
> • Realising threat to his throne and his people, the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir asked India for help;
> 
> • Indian government asked the Maharaja to accede to India, which he did under pressure;
> 
> • The accession was provisionally accepted and the Indian forces landed in Srinagar on the morning of 27th October.
> 
> During all this time nothing happened in Gilgit Baltistan. Those who didn’t want Kashmir to become a part of India, or at least, Gilgit Baltistan to go to India, planned the tribal invasion hoping that they will have strategically important areas of the State under their control.
> 
> 
> After the ‘Provisional accession’ on 26th October the Indian forces reached Srinagar on the morning of 27th October; but those who planned and controlled the tribal invasion did not do anything in Gilgit Baltistan because they hoped that Srinagar would be captured. Once they realised that the tribesmen were only good against the civilians, and they quickly retreated after encountering the Indian army, they gave a green signal to Major Brown and the much talked the Gilgit Rebellion took place on 1st of November 1947.
> 
> 
> Ghansara(the governor) was alone, but armed. He wasn’t a coward and kept resisting the scouts who were asking him to come out in the dark night and surrender. Flickers danced in the darkness for hundredth parts of a second as Ghansara Singh and the Scouts exchanged fire. Suddenly a bullet pierced through the body of Sepoy Amir Hayat, a member of Hunza Platoon, making him the first martyr of Gilgit – Baltistan’s war of independence.
> 
> The exchange of fire increased as the scouts learnt of their comrade’s martyrdom and, soon, Ghansara Singh was without any ammunition. He came out, hands up, and was arrested. It was the first morning of November. The year was 1947.The independent Islamic republic of Gilgit, “Islami Jamhuria Gilgit”, had been founded. Shah Raees was nominated president of the republic. The Gilgit – Scout was being led by Babar Khan, Ehsan Ali and Shah Khan. They were joined by rebellious Muslim officers of Kashmir Infantry, including the charismatic Col Mirza Hasan Khan, Major Durrani and Major Jaral, among others. A revolutionary council was formed and tasked to work closely with the revolutionary government. Col Hassan became the supreme commander of the revolutionary scouts, divided into three companies; the Tiger, the Ibex and the Eskimo led by Babar, Ehsan and Shah Khan, respectively.
> 
> The rebellious Gilgit – Scout, then, marched towards Bonji Garrison, forwarding the war of independence. It wasn’t an ordinary occasion. The subjects had risen to reclaim their independence from the masters after decades of silence. The government of Pakistan came to their help, at later stages, and the Dogra Forces were chased out of the region. Seventy two thousand square miles of land were liberated by the poorly armed, poorly trained, semi – military organization.
> 
> * Major William Alexander Brown,MBE,Sitara e Pakistan-British Scot Leader of Gilgit Rebellion*
> View attachment 222171
> 
> In December 1941 he sailed for India and was selected for the Officer Training School Bangalore,receiving his commission as a second lieutenant in the 10/12 Frontier Force Regiment.
> 
> 
> Soon after being commissioned he was transferred to the frontier scouts and served in South Waziristan Scouts with which he fell in love.He here acquired proficiency in Pashto.In early 1943 Brown was posted as APA in Chilas where he built a polo ground.Here he acquired proficiency in the local language Shina as well as Burushaski.In 1946 he was posted to the Tochi Scouts in North Waziristan.In June 1947 he was posted to Chitral as Acting Commandant of Chitral Scouts.
> 
> 
> On way to Chitral he was posted as Commandant of Gilgit Scouts in view of new developments as Lord Mountbatten had decided to transfer back lease of Gilgit to Kashmir state.He was promoted to rank of major and arrived in Gilgit on 29 July 1947.Gilgit was handed over to Jammu and Kashmir state on 1 August 1947 and the British flag lowered.He was now 25 years old.
> 
> 
> In October 1947 the unofficial Kashmir war began.The Maharaja of Kashmir decided to disband Gilgit Scouts as it was an All Muslim unit and feared a revolt.To pre-empt this the Gilgit Scouts planned a rebellion.They found an unexpected ally in major Brown who decided to lead them.On 31 October 1947 Major Brown led the Gilgit Rebellion as a result f which Northern Areas and Baltistan were captured by Gilgit Scouts and the area aceded to Pakistan.Major Brown planned all major attacks of the Gilgit Scouts.He returned to Pakistan from Gilgit in January 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In July 1948 the British Government awarded him an MBE with a very vague citation.This proves that his actions were accepted as that of a hero in higher quarters of the British Empire.He joined the ICI and stayed on in Pakistan till 1959.In July 1957 he married Margaret Rosemary Cooksley who was serving in the British High Commission at Karachi from whom he had a son named William in 1958.
> 
> Brown died of a heart attack on 5 December 1984.
> 
> He was posthumously awarded Pakistan's highest civilian award Sitara e Pakistan on 23 March 1994.
> 
> 
> This in fact does not highlight all the heroes of this liberation war .
> 
> Links for further information .
> 
> News | Report on 1947 events in Gilgit Agency (part I)
> 
> CSIO: Major William Alexander Brown,MBE,Sitara e Pakistan-British Scot Leader of Gilgit Rebellion
> 
> GB Tribune: History & Dispute
> 
> Radio Pakistan
> jarralwebsite
> 
> @Atanz , there is a book by William A. Brown . Very informative . Here is a link for it .
> Gilgit Rebelion: The Major Who Mutinied Over Partition of India - William Brown - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such a shame , even to this date the region is not enjoying the same rights as the rest of the country .
> Gilgit as a fifth province


I certainlydint know about Maj Brown but I have read a little about the Muslim rebellion in 47 and the sacrifices of the proud people of Gilgit Baltistan .. Meanwhile the state of Pakistan and its army lead by an assholez called general Gracie made server all mistakes ... The biggest by not arming the Kashniris properly, the stopping to logistic supplies to fighters who were on the outskirts of Sri nagar among many other mistakes in deal with the first Kashmir war.


P.S: WAJaal I would suggest you read "Crossed Swords" .. It's probably the best and most neutral book out there on our mistakes ...

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## 45'22'

Areesh said:


> There was 0 chances of Kashmir being another country.
> And India was always in the picture with Hindu raja killing his own people to change demographics and extremists from India helping him in this case.


You are taking it to a new high....
Believe me,India wasn't in the picture 
Even this article proves that....

The Muslim generals of the Maharaja didn't wanted that the Maharaja should accede J&K to India but they failed to notice that Maharaja had other intentions .....maybe to rule the place for a longer period......

It is also mentioned that Maharaja acceded to India under pressure which indicates there was never a plan to accede to India....
and where did you get the idea that he would have massacred his own people....

India sure wouldn't have wanted Pakistan to get an hold on Kashmir but an independent Kashmir was very much in the table

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Areesh said:


> There was 0 chances of Kashmir being another country.
> And India was always in the picture with Hindu raja killing his own people to change demographics and extremists from India helping him in this case.



The genocode started by that vastard in Kashmir is well covered by Pak Aswell as western journalists covering the events.

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## RAMPAGE

Shamain said:


> Insaan hamesha zameen kay leay larta rahay ga.


One of the very few things worth fighting for and dying for.

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## Shamain

Areesh said:


> There was 0 chances of Kashmir being another country.
> And India was always in the picture with Hindu raja killing his own people to change demographics and extremists from India helping him in this case.


India was always bloody there in the picture, we were getting districts of gurdaspur and ferozepur.they were muslim majority.
India had no land link left with kashmir except for gurdaspur,

haramkhor mountbaten conspired with hindus ,giving those districts to indians they were all muslim majority.
One of the major purposes for which nehru and mount baten held our gurdaspur region was to provide nasty indians access to kashmir, the whole plan of taking over kashmir wasnt new and already preconcieved. There were no other towns and cities except for gurdaspur that had landlinks built upto kashmir.

U remove gurdaspur ,india wll have no land link with kashmir.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

45'22' said:


> You are taking it to a new high....
> Believe me,India wasn't in the picture
> Even this article proves that....
> 
> The Muslim generals of the Maharaja didn't wanted that the Maharaja should accede J&K to India but they failed to notice that Maharaja had other intentions .....maybe to rule the place for a longer period......
> 
> It is also mentioned that Maharaja acceded to India under pressure which indicates there was never a plan to accede to India....
> and where did you get the idea that he would have massacred his own people....
> 
> India sure wouldn't have wanted Pakistan to get an hold on Kashmir but an independent Kashmir was very much in the table



No it wasn't .. Try Nehru or Patels statements from that era !

Even if the Maharaja hadn't ceeded to india (which itself was wrong - bcoz it was to be given to Pak due to its clear muslim majority)... The indians would have occupied it like they did with Hyderabad,Junagarh etc.


Meanwhile the local Rajas like Raja of patiala was already helping ghulab sing militarily (in massacring KAshmiris).



Shamain said:


> India was always bloody there in the picture, we were getting districts of gurdaspur and ferozepur.they were muslim majority.
> India had no land link left with kashmir except for gurdaspur,
> 
> haramkhor doggie mountbaten conspired with hindus ,giving those districts to indians they were all muslim majority.
> One of the major purposes for which dog nehru and dog mount baten held our gurdaspur region was to provide nasty indians access to kashmir, the whole plan of taking over kashmir wasnt new and already preconcieved. There were no other towns and cities except for gurdaspur that had landlinks built upto kashmir.
> 
> U remove gurdaspur ,india wll have no land link with kashmir.



Zafarwal area is still the major route to IOK.


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## Shamain

RAMPAGE said:


> One of the very few things worth fighting for and dying for.




But when we look at oppression ......one is left with no choice.


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## Areesh

45'22' said:


> You are taking it to a new high....
> Believe me,India wasn't in the picture
> Even this article proves that....
> 
> The Muslim generals of the Maharaja didn't wanted that the Maharaja should accede J&K to India but they failed to notice that Maharaja had other intentions .....maybe to rule the place for a longer period......
> 
> It is also mentioned that Maharaja acceded to India under pressure which indicates there was never a plan to accede to India....
> and where did you get the idea that he would have massacred his own people....
> 
> India sure wouldn't have wanted Pakistan to get an hold on Kashmir but an independent Kashmir was very much in the table



Independent Kashmir was never a possibility since each and every state had to join Pakistan or Kashmir as per partition plan. As for India. It was always in the picture. If India wouldn't be in the picture, it wouldn't have sent it forces to Srinagar even before signing of the accession by the Hindu Raja. This shows desperation and real intent of Indian state. India always wanted to occupy whole of Kashmir and doing nothing would have been the biggest blunder by Pakistan. Fortunately Pakistan despite opposition by that idiot General Gracie acted quickly and secured areas of GB and AJK or else it would have been no GB And Ajk for Pakistan and no border with China. We saved GB and AJK from hands of Hindu raja.

As for from where we get the idea that he would massacre his own people. We got the idea since he was already massacring his own people and changed the demographics of Jammu region even before any tribal set his foot in the Kashmir region. So our doubts and apprehensions towards both Hindu raja and Hindu India were 101% justified.

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## Shamain

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Zafarwal area is still the major route to IOK.


Access from indian punjab to kashmir, at that time it was only gurdaspur.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Shamain said:


> Access from indian punjab to kashmir, at that time it was only gurdaspur.


The area is called Zafarwal... It borders Shakargarh.


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## Areesh

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The genocode started by that vastard in Kashmir is well covered by Pak Aswell as western journalists covering the events.



Yup several neutral sources are also present on internet about Jammu massacre.

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## Shamain

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The area is called Zafarwal... It borders Shakargarh.


Ok ididnt know specific tehsil names.


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## 45'22'

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> No it wasn't .. Try Nehru or Patels statements from that era !
> 
> Even if the Maharaja hadn't ceeded to india (which itself was wrong - bcoz it was to be given to Pak due to its clear muslim majority)... The indians would have occupied it like they did with Hyderabad,Junagarh etc.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile the local Rajas like Raja of patiala was already helping ghulab sing militarily (in massacring KAshmiris).
> 
> 
> 
> Zafarwal area is still the major route to IOK.


Annexation of Hyderabad makes sense....
it wasn't a good idea to let it remain independent landlocked by India on 4 sides....

Kashmir was a different case.

I m not sure about the killings .....I haven't heard about it....I Will read about it b4 commenting


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Areesh said:


> Yup several neutral sources are also present on internet about Jammu massacre.



Millions of ppl from the valley were forced to seek refugee is Jhelum valley .. The burning villages of Kashmir could been seen from the mountains of Murree.. These are all facts which indians will never accept!



45'22' said:


> Annexation of Hyderabad makes sense....
> it wasn't a good idea to let it remain independent landlocked by India on 4 sides....
> 
> Kashmir was a different case.
> 
> I m not sure about the killings .....I haven't heard about it....I Will read about it b4 commenting




Try Junagarh ? That again was a muslim ruled state bordering Pak whose ruler had ceeded with Pak but was invaded by india... The flag of junagarh still flies at junagarh house in Karachi.

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## Armstrong

scorpionx said:


> Another very informative piece from you,WAJsal. It deserves positive ratings definitely.



My little brother WAJsal always rights good stuff !  

Aakhir @WAJsal bhai kisss ka hain na ?

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## Areesh

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Millions of ppl from the valley were forced to seek refugee is Jhelum valley .. The burning villages of Kashmir could been seen from the mountains of Murree.. These are all facts which indians will never accept!



Yup. The whole demographics of Jammu was changed. The muslims were made minority in various districts, towns and villages. Those scumbags of RSS were also involved in it.

Indians obviously hide this massacre for obvious reasons. There history of Kashmir starts with Tribal invasion of Kashmir. As many say. Half truth = Worst than full lie. Same applies here.

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## Shamain

Demographics also got skewed cuz many ppl migrated from kashmir to pakistan ,around millions to save their lives and families.
Alone in48 there was a lot of migration.

Why india loves killing people.?


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## Indus Pakistan

@WAJsal

That is a fantastic effort - I loved reading that. I can't believe your 17. You are a very bright boy and if you ever come to UK you must let me know. Hope to see more good stuff from you.

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## WAJsal

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> P.S: WAJaal I would suggest you read "Crossed Swords" .. It's probably the best and most neutral book out there on our mistakes ...


I certainly will .



Armstrong said:


> Aakhir @WAJsal bhai kisss ka hain na ?


sher ka bhai hon . Bus nam us ka Armstrong hai.


Atanz said:


> @WAJsal
> 
> That is a fantastic effort - I loved reading that. I can't believe your 17. You are a very bright boy and if you ever come to UK you must let me know. Hope to see more good stuff from you.


Thank you for the kind words . I just wanted to share something informative with you all . In fact many of us don't know how and when G-B got liberated .


Atanz said:


> You are a very bright boy and if you ever come to UK you must let me know.


Thank you . It might just be possible , see my father is one of those who started from the scratch , went the journey bankrupted ,cheated , now he doesn't believe in me or my brother's and sister having a future in Pakistan . I think i'll finish my A levels and make further plans .
Have a good day.

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## WAJsal

Areesh said:


> We saved GB and AJK from hands of Hindu raja.


The scouts and the locals saved themselves and liberated GB, there was no direct help from Pakistan .


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## Areesh

WAJsal said:


> The scouts and the locals saved themselves and liberated GB, there was no direct help from Pakistan .



Yup GB guys fought on their own. But for AJK we had to fought.


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## Shamain

WAJsal said:


> The scouts and the locals saved themselves and liberated GB, there was no direct help from Pakistan .


Did GB ppl also fight for AJK, this part i wanted to know?

Didnt the entire gb and ajk battle started off at the same time?


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## ghoul

Areesh said:


> Yup. The whole demographics of Jammu was changed. The muslims were made minority in various districts, towns and villages. Those scumbags of RSS were also involved in it.
> 
> Indians obviously hide this massacre for obvious reasons. There history of Kashmir starts with Tribal invasion of Kashmir. As many say. Half truth = Worst than full lie. Same applies here.



From what I understand, the uprising was originally started by muslim officers of Dogra army, who renamed themselves "AK force" or by the Gilgit scouts. AK forces were mostly active in Bhimber, Mirpur and Kotli.

I also heard that the people of GB are very peaceful in their demeanor, but when it comes to fighting, they can be extremely cruel.


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## WAJsal

Shamain said:


> Did GB ppl also fight for AJK, this part i wanted to know?
> 
> Didnt the entire gb and ajk battle started off at the same time?


They did , unfortunately some of the locals and freedom fighters didn't carry out their commands . They could have had the whole of Kashmir and the GB . Mistakes were made .



ghoul said:


> I also heard that the people of GB are very peaceful in their demeanor, but when it comes to fighting, they can be extremely cruel.


Cruel ? oh no . Do i look cruel to you , lolz . Yes you can say they are up for the job , they are willing to do anything to protect their country .


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## HariPrasad

Only one reason. Naheru stopped our advanced forces and took the issue to UN.


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## WAJsal

HariPrasad said:


> Only one reason. Naheru stopped our advanced forces and took the issue to UN.


As a democratic state that's what should have been done . Plus Indian occupation would never have been possible , figure out the reasons .


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## Shamain

WAJsal said:


> They did , unfortunately some of the locals and freedom fighters didn't carry out their commands . They could have had the whole of Kashmir and the GB . Mistakes were made .
> 
> 
> Cruel ? oh no . Do i look cruel to you , lolz . Yes you can say they are up for the job , they are willing to do anything to protect their country .


Realllyyyyy???? Ididnt know that' so gb ppl had fought for kashmir and jammu too. Btw these gb fighters were locals or the ex army men. Or both.?

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## WAJsal

Shamain said:


> Realllyyyyy???? Ididnt know that' so gb ppl had fought for kashmir and jammu too. Btw these gb fighters were locals or the ex army men. Or both.?


They were locals as well as the scouts and ex army men , led by a Britisher lolz . 
Yes GB did fight for Kashmir ,unfortunately orders weren't carried out properly or else ,the plan was to liberate the whole of Gilgit with Kashmir .

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## Shamain

WAJsal said:


> They were locals as well as the scouts and ex army men , led by a Britisher lolz .
> Yes GB did fight for Kashmir ,unfortunately orders weren't carried out properly or else ,the plan was to liberate the whole of Gilgit with Kashmir .


Oh ok i had never read abt this. Actually for j and k there was always mention of tribals fighting in the region, so ididnt know gb was also involved.
Acha tell me one thing does gb also have tribal culture like fata.
My frnss werent from tribal families tho.
Acha suno shina may 'shoo' ka matlab kya hota hai. Does it mean back off?


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## WAJsal

Shamain said:


> Acha tell me one thing does gb also have tribal culture like fata.


Only in left-behind Kohistan region ,that too because of FATAs influence .Other than that GB is quite good . 


Shamain said:


> Acha suno shina may 'shoo' ka matlab kya hota hai. Does it mean back off?


Universally it means back off .Not just in Shina , "shoo !shoo bad dog ," get my point .


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## Shamain

WAJsal said:


> Only in left-behind Kohistan region ,that too because of FATAs influence .Other than that GB is quite good .
> 
> Universally it means back off .Not just in Shina , "shoo !shoo bad dog ," get my point .


Ohh i know universal meaning thing but my frnd had told me that its a shina word and means something so i had forgotten and so i asked, she taught me some more words bt i forgot.

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## WAJsal

Shamain said:


> Ohh i know universal meaning thing but my frnd had told me that its a shina word and means something so i had forgotten and so i asked, she taught me some more words bt i forgot.


Lolz ,sorry don't know .So what'd i miss ? anything unusual that's happened .


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## Shamain

WAJsal said:


> Lolz ,sorry don't know .So what'd i miss ? anything unusual that's happened .


Yes i had my second ban for a week. U didnt know?


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## WAJsal

Shamain said:


> Yes i had my second ban for a week. U didnt know?


In one week, lolz. How ?

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## AnnoyingOrange

WAJsal said:


> Now we all know that Pakistan got independence on August 14 , 1947 , *what most of us don’t know is that after 3 months Gilgit-Baltistan got it’s independence .*
> 
> The history of Gilgit Baltistan can be divided into the following periods:
> 
> Pre-History: The earliest inhabitants of the Gilgit-Baltistan can be traced back to 5th millennium BC They were known as Rock Art People as they started the tradition of rock carving which was continued by their successors. They were hunters and lived in rocks. There is a general perception that they had religion having faith in mountains.
> 
> 
> Megalith Builders: These people came from Chitral and Swat and had the tradition of building large megaliths. They used to have a ceremonial carved stone in the middle which was worshiped. They used metals like copper, bronze, iron, gold and silver. They developed irrigated fields and also depended on livestock like goat, sheep and other cattle. They lived in mud houses as temporary settlement.
> 
> 
> Dardic People:According to some historians, the Dardics lived in the present Gilgit Baltistan during the Achaemenian Empire (4th century B.C). Their economic activities included mining and trading gold. This led to the establishment of a trade route with Central Asia and China.
> 
> 
> Scytho Parthians: Various rock inscriptions around Chilas suggest that the Scythians from Central Asia had established their rule in this area around the first century BC The rule of Scythians resulted in the introduction of Kharosthi script and Taxila style stupas and establishment of close trade relations with Taxila. The Scythian rule lasted only two generations between 1 B.C and 1 A.D. This was followed by the Gondophares branch of Parthians. The influence of the Parthians on local culture is evident from the rock carvings of this era which depict some new themes other than those of the earliest inhabitants.
> 
> 
> The Kushans: The Khushans moved to Northern Areas between 1 B.C and 1 A.D who had already established their rule in Central Asia and China. They used gold for trade purposes and a route passed through Northern Area which was perhaps the Silk Route on which the current Karakoram Highway has been constructed.
> 
> 
> The Post Kushans: After the Kushans, the Sassanis from Persia controlled the area in the beginning of 3rd century AD. During that period, Buddhism continued to flourish and this area remained a famous crossing point for travel to and from India, China and Central Asia.
> 
> 
> The Huns: These were tribes from Central Asia who were warriors. They ruled through several Shina and Burushaski kings called 'Rajas'. By that time, Buddhism was still on its way of spreading.
> 
> 
> Medieval to Modern Time
> 
> 
> With the decline of Huns, the Rajas became independent. From 612 to 750 AD, the areas were ruled by Patoal Shahi Dynasty who were Buddhists and had close ties with Chinese empire. Between 7th Century and early 19th century, parts of the Gilgit-Baltistan were ruled by succession of various dynasties including: Tarkhans of Gilgit, the Maghlots of Nagar, the Ayashok of Hunza, the Burshai of Punyal, the Maqpoons of Skardu, the Anchans of Shigar and the Yabgos of Khaplu. In the beginning of 8th century AD the Tarkhan rulers embraced Islam. In the medieval times, Gilgit-Baltistan remained outside Mughal control although Akbar conquered Kashmir and parts of Baltistan while Gilgit retained its independent status until the Gilgit-Baltistan came under the control of Dogra rulers of Kashmir in the middle of 18th century. By the end of 19th century, the British Government created the Gilgit agency and appointed a political agent, under a lease agreement with Maharaja Hari Singh of Kashmir. In 1947, the people of Gilgit Baltistan fought against the Maharaja and got independence.
> 
> 
> 
> Before partition of the sub-Continent, the state of Jammu and Kashmir with a total area of 84471 square miles, was geographically divided into following three big regions:
> 
> 
> 1. Jammu Province (12,378 sq. miles)
> 
> 
> 2. Kashmir Province (8,539 sq.)
> 
> 
> 3. Frontier Province of Ladakh and Gilgit (63,554 sq)
> 
> 
> In 1947, a part of the state gained independence and was called Azad Jammu and Kashmir, which has an area of 5,134 square miles. While 29,814 square miles chunk of the Frontier Province of Ladakh and Gilgit after winning freedom came under the administrative control of Pakistan through an agreement. This is the area now called Northern Areas. The rest of the Frontier province i.e. 3,3740 sq. miles area of Ladakh is under Indian occupation.
> 
> 
> Constitutional Position
> 
> 
> Historically these areas belong to Dogra State of Jammu and Kashmir. On March 29, 1935, the British government took possession of Gilgit Agency from the state government, through a lease agreement for 60 years. The British feared of the Soviet expansionist moves, and therefore wanted to have direct control in the region. During this period the state flag remained hoisted over residency along with the Union Jack. However by August 1, 1947, the areas were returned to the state government , because the British had decided partitioning of the Indian sub-continent.
> The liberation
> 
> 
> On November 1, 1947 Gilgit-Baltistan became a republic and 15 days later acceded to Pakistan .Through a jointly formed armed struggle of the local people, the Gilgit Scouts and the Muslim officers of the Maharaja’s army, the area was liberated on November 1, 1947 and an interim government constituted under Raja Shah Rais Khan of Gilgit.The main reason being that : the people wanted to be a part of Pakistan but the governor had other plans , and then what the chain of reaction that unfold .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The national flag
> 
> The government of Pakistan was invited through a telegram to take control of the areas. Responding to this request Sardar Muhammad Alam (A tehsildar in the NWFP government at that time) was appointed and sent to Gilgit on 16th November, as government of Pakistan’s political agent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Shah Rais Khan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Army Chief Mirza Hassan, first from left, Quarter Master Babar Khan and
> 
> Chief of General Staff Saeed Durrani.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Political Agent Ghulam Haider, first from left, Inspector General Police Abdul
> 
> Hameed and Member Revolutionary Council Muhammad Khan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADC to Army Chief Shah Khan, left, and Advisor to the
> 
> government Major Brown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William Alexander Brown, known as Major Brown played an important role in Gilgit Rebellion, and ensured that these areas remain under control of Pakistan. Major Brown must have done something worthwhile that he was awarded MBE by the British government; and a medal from Pakistan known as Star of Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Let us briefly look at the role of Major Brown.
> 
> • He was born on 22 December 1922 and came to India in December 1941;
> 
> • He became an officer of Frontier Force Regiment which was later converted to Gilgit Scouts in 1943.
> 
> • He served Gilgit Scouts for 3 years and also learnt Pashto and Sheena languages;
> 
> • He was appointed Assistant Political Agent for Chilas;
> 
> • Between 1946 and July 1947 he served as an officer in Tochi Scouts and Chitral Scouts;
> 
> • Because of his good rapport with the Gilgit Scouts, knowledge of the region and importance of these areas he was made a Commander of Gilgit Scouts on 29th July 1947;
> 
> • He was an employee of the Jammu and Kashmir government up till 1st November 1947 when the Gilgit Rebellion took place.
> 
> 
> Colonel Bacon who was a Political Agent of Gilgit met Major Brown and told him that Lord Mountbatten has decided to return areas of Gilgit Baltistan to the Ruler of Jammu and Kashmir on 1st August 1947. It was possible that the Maharaja could have appointed his own man as a head of Gilgit Scouts, but the British wanted to ensure that their trusted man is in control of the Gilgit Scouts – the only military force in the region.
> 
> 
> Major Brown in his book ‘The Gilgit Rebellion’ notes, and I quote: ‘All Gilgit wanted was the peace and security afforded under the Pax Britannica and the method by which this could have been continued, despite partition, would have been to have made the Gilgit Agency an agency of the North West Frontier Province, directly under THE Governor. This would have ensured continuity in administration, peace, security, and unity: infertile ground for Soviet seed. My duty was obvious. I must return to Gilgit and lead, advise and help the people over the transition period.’ Unquote
> 
> 
> Source: Independence of Gilgit Baltistan, by Ghulam Rasool, page 122
> 
> 
> So one can see his mission was clear. Although he was an employee of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir but his loyalty was not with him. On 30th July 1947 Brigadier Gansara Singh as a Governor of the area and accompanied by General Scott and Captain Saeed Durrani reached Gilgit by air. A large crowed consisting of army officials, Gilgit Scouts, rulers of different regions and other notables welcome them.
> 
> 
> Major Brown very quickly re-established his contacts with all important rulers of different regions and officers of the Gilgit Scouts, some of them were his personal friends and trusted colleagues. He also strengthened communal sentiments within the Gilgit Scouts, Jammu and Kashmir Army and among the ruling elite. In his book, The Kashmir Rebellion, Major Brown writes an account of a meeting with a son of Ruler of Nagar, Raja Muzaffar Ul Din Shah who said, and I quote:
> 
> 
> ‘If Kashmir remains independent, well and good. We shall be independent here but we can also keep friendliest relationship with our brothers in Pakistan. If Kashmir accedes to Pakistan even better. But if the Maharaja through pig – headedness, bad advice, political pressure or attractive remuneration accedes to Hindustan, then there will be trouble here.’ Unquote
> 
> 
> Raja Muzaffar Ul Din Shah further advises Major Brown, as to how he should handle the Gilgit Scouts – the only local armed force in the event of Kashmir joining India, because some units of the Gilgit Scouts were unpredictable and 6th Battalion of the Kashmir Infantry stationed at Bunji ‘would soon put an end to an insurrection of any sort.’
> 
> 
> Major Brown also secretly won over support of some Muslim officers of the Maharaja army, which included Captain Hassan, Captain Saeed Durani, Captain Mohammed Khan and Lieutenant Ghulam Haider. One night during a drink session Captain Saeed and Captain Mohammed Khan said: ‘the Maharaja should remain independent, but if he joins India then as a true Muslims he will resign from the Kashmir Army.
> 
> 
> The last straw was Major Brown’s disagreement over some administrative issue with Governor’s staff that came from Srinagar. The Governor sided with his staff; and Major Brown got extremely angry and locked himself up in a room to analyse the situation and plan his future action. In his book, The Gilgit Rebellion, Major Brown writes, and I quote:
> 
> 
> ‘I, therefore, felt it was my duty, as the only Britisher left, to follow a course which would prevent this. And further, as a liberal member of the world’s paragon of democracy, I considered that the whole of Kashmir, including Gilgit Province, unquestionably go to Pakistan in view of the fact that the population was predominantly Muslim. Partisan, traitor, revolutionary, I may have been, but that evening my sentiments dictated that if the Maharaja acceded to India, then I would forego all the allegiance to him and I would not rest content until I had done the utmost in my power to ensure that not only the Gilgit Province joined Pakistan, but the whole of Kashmir also.’ Unquote
> 
> 
> Source: Independence of Gilgit Baltistan, by Ghulam Rasool, page 133
> 
> 
> On 30th October 1947, Colonel Bacon, after his farewell party gave briefing to Major Brown, and concluded: “I give the Kashmir Administration three months in Gilgit. Then something will happen.”
> 
> 
> Source: Independence of Gilgit Baltistan, by Ghulam Rasool, page 124
> 
> 
> That something happened as predicted or planned; and sequence of events is very important in this. The Pakistani government, which included the British officials on key posts, hoped that the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir would join Pakistan, but once they realised that the Maharaja was not prepared to accede to Pakistan they managed the Tribal Invasion.
> 
> 
> • Pakistani officials violated the Standstill Agreement with the Maharaja and the Tribal Invasion of Kashmir started on 22 October 1947;
> 
> • Realising threat to his throne and his people, the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir asked India for help;
> 
> • Indian government asked the Maharaja to accede to India, which he did under pressure;
> 
> • The accession was provisionally accepted and the Indian forces landed in Srinagar on the morning of 27th October.
> 
> During all this time nothing happened in Gilgit Baltistan. Those who didn’t want Kashmir to become a part of India, or at least, Gilgit Baltistan to go to India, planned the tribal invasion hoping that they will have strategically important areas of the State under their control.
> 
> 
> After the ‘Provisional accession’ on 26th October the Indian forces reached Srinagar on the morning of 27th October; but those who planned and controlled the tribal invasion did not do anything in Gilgit Baltistan because they hoped that Srinagar would be captured. Once they realised that the tribesmen were only good against the civilians, and they quickly retreated after encountering the Indian army, they gave a green signal to Major Brown and the much talked the Gilgit Rebellion took place on 1st of November 1947.
> 
> 
> Ghansara(the governor) was alone, but armed. He wasn’t a coward and kept resisting the scouts who were asking him to come out in the dark night and surrender. Flickers danced in the darkness for hundredth parts of a second as Ghansara Singh and the Scouts exchanged fire. Suddenly a bullet pierced through the body of Sepoy Amir Hayat, a member of Hunza Platoon, making him the first martyr of Gilgit – Baltistan’s war of independence.
> 
> The exchange of fire increased as the scouts learnt of their comrade’s martyrdom and, soon, Ghansara Singh was without any ammunition. He came out, hands up, and was arrested. It was the first morning of November. The year was 1947.The independent Islamic republic of Gilgit, “Islami Jamhuria Gilgit”, had been founded. Shah Raees was nominated president of the republic. The Gilgit – Scout was being led by Babar Khan, Ehsan Ali and Shah Khan. They were joined by rebellious Muslim officers of Kashmir Infantry, including the charismatic Col Mirza Hasan Khan, Major Durrani and Major Jaral, among others. A revolutionary council was formed and tasked to work closely with the revolutionary government. Col Hassan became the supreme commander of the revolutionary scouts, divided into three companies; the Tiger, the Ibex and the Eskimo led by Babar, Ehsan and Shah Khan, respectively.
> 
> The rebellious Gilgit – Scout, then, marched towards Bonji Garrison, forwarding the war of independence. It wasn’t an ordinary occasion. The subjects had risen to reclaim their independence from the masters after decades of silence. The government of Pakistan came to their help, at later stages, and the Dogra Forces were chased out of the region. Seventy two thousand square miles of land were liberated by the poorly armed, poorly trained, semi – military organization.
> 
> * Major William Alexander Brown,MBE,Sitara e Pakistan-British Scot Leader of Gilgit Rebellion*
> View attachment 222171
> 
> In December 1941 he sailed for India and was selected for the Officer Training School Bangalore,receiving his commission as a second lieutenant in the 10/12 Frontier Force Regiment.
> 
> 
> Soon after being commissioned he was transferred to the frontier scouts and served in South Waziristan Scouts with which he fell in love.He here acquired proficiency in Pashto.In early 1943 Brown was posted as APA in Chilas where he built a polo ground.Here he acquired proficiency in the local language Shina as well as Burushaski.In 1946 he was posted to the Tochi Scouts in North Waziristan.In June 1947 he was posted to Chitral as Acting Commandant of Chitral Scouts.
> 
> 
> On way to Chitral he was posted as Commandant of Gilgit Scouts in view of new developments as Lord Mountbatten had decided to transfer back lease of Gilgit to Kashmir state.He was promoted to rank of major and arrived in Gilgit on 29 July 1947.Gilgit was handed over to Jammu and Kashmir state on 1 August 1947 and the British flag lowered.He was now 25 years old.
> 
> 
> In October 1947 the unofficial Kashmir war began.The Maharaja of Kashmir decided to disband Gilgit Scouts as it was an All Muslim unit and feared a revolt.To pre-empt this the Gilgit Scouts planned a rebellion.They found an unexpected ally in major Brown who decided to lead them.On 31 October 1947 Major Brown led the Gilgit Rebellion as a result f which Northern Areas and Baltistan were captured by Gilgit Scouts and the area aceded to Pakistan.Major Brown planned all major attacks of the Gilgit Scouts.He returned to Pakistan from Gilgit in January 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In July 1948 the British Government awarded him an MBE with a very vague citation.This proves that his actions were accepted as that of a hero in higher quarters of the British Empire.He joined the ICI and stayed on in Pakistan till 1959.In July 1957 he married Margaret Rosemary Cooksley who was serving in the British High Commission at Karachi from whom he had a son named William in 1958.
> 
> Brown died of a heart attack on 5 December 1984.
> 
> He was posthumously awarded Pakistan's highest civilian award Sitara e Pakistan on 23 March 1994.
> 
> 
> This in fact does not highlight all the heroes of this liberation war .
> 
> Links for further information .
> 
> News | Report on 1947 events in Gilgit Agency (part I)
> 
> CSIO: Major William Alexander Brown,MBE,Sitara e Pakistan-British Scot Leader of Gilgit Rebellion
> 
> GB Tribune: History & Dispute
> 
> Radio Pakistan
> jarralwebsite
> 
> @Atanz , there is a book by William A. Brown . Very informative . Here is a link for it .
> Gilgit Rebelion: The Major Who Mutinied Over Partition of India - William Brown - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such a shame , even to this date the region is not enjoying the same rights as the rest of the country .
> Gilgit as a fifth province


Liberated? More like snatched away from a Hapless king who had a weak army and could not defend his territory ... I love the way History is taught in Pakistan.

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## Shamain

AnnoyingOrange said:


> Liberated? More like snatched away from a Hapless king who had a weak army and could not defend his territory ... I love the way History is taught in Pakistan.


And we despise the way minds are poisoned and programmed in india and how its taught there that its absolutely justified and legit to occupy and hokd others land and ,systematically kill the locals,

How heartless i have seen u indians justifying the killings of innocent kashmiris. Even devil wont be that heinous.

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## WAJsal

AnnoyingOrange said:


> Liberated? More like snatched away from a Hapless king who had a weak army and could not defend his territory ... I love the way History is taught in Pakistan.


Snatched? who cares as long as we are free.


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## AnnoyingOrange

Shamain said:


> And we despise the way minds are poisoned and programmed in india and how its taught there that its absolutely justified and legit to occupy and hokd others land and ,systematically kill the locals,
> 
> How heartless i have seen u indians justifying the killings of innocent kashmiris. Even devil wont be that heinous.


India defended its territory after King Acceded to India... does Pakistan has any document of accession with it? We have legal documents...what do you have?

Well .. as of now ...its you and your so called Jihadis who are killing Kashmiris.. here is an example form yesterday for making some money for his family: Man killed in Kashmir's Sopore over hosting mobile tower on his land - Latest Kashmir News & Analysis - - Kashmir Dispatch

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## WAJsal

AnnoyingOrange said:


> India defended its territory after King Acceded to India


Talk about irony.
Junagadh & Manavadar - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


AnnoyingOrange said:


> does Pakistan has any document of accession with it?


Pakistan acceded on request of the local leaders. GB was a free state for 15 days and decided to join with Pakistan.
Unlike in India's case. Give this a read, will help.
Hyderabad 1948 | India's hidden massacre.

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## Shamain

WAJsal said:


> Talk about irony.
> Junagadh & Manavadar - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Pakistan acceded on request of the local leaders. GB was a free state for 15 days and decided to join with Pakistan.


Hyderabad, junagadh, goa all were forcefully ceded by india. Then in 70s they forecfuly occupied sikkim.

Life is a pain in india. Now hyderabad isnt really a rich state. From what i have heard its very poverty stricken. India ko bas cheenanay ki adat hai, cheen kay gand kar kay rakh do occupied areas ka, naa koi development ,na kuch aur , zilch nothing, nada.

Now india also has an island dispute with srilanka called kacchatheevu someting.

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## WAJsal

Shamain said:


> Hyderabad, junagadh, goa all were forcefully ceded by india. Then in 70s they forecfuly occupied sikkim.
> 
> Life is a pain in india. Now hyderabad isnt really a rich state. From what i have heard its very poverty stricken. India ko bas cheenanay ki adat hai, cheen kay gand kar kay rakh do occupied areas ka, naa koi development ,na kuch aur , zilch nothing, nada.
> 
> Now india also has an island dispute with srilanka called kacchatheevu someting.


read this.
Hyderabad 1948 | India's hidden massacre.


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## Shamain

WAJsal said:


> read this.
> Hyderabad 1948 | India's hidden massacre.


Wasnt that called operatio polo?


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## asad71

Years back I used to meet Wing Commander Shah Khan, then Commandant of PAF Naltar Ski & Snow Survival School. It was whispered that he had also been a part of the uprising against the Dogras.


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## AnnoyingOrange

Shamain said:


> Hyderabad, junagadh, goa all were forcefully ceded by india. Then in 70s they forecfuly occupied sikkim.
> 
> Life is a pain in india. Now hyderabad isnt really a rich state. From what i have heard its very poverty stricken. India ko bas cheenanay ki adat hai, cheen kay gand kar kay rakh do occupied areas ka, naa koi development ,na kuch aur , zilch nothing, nada.
> 
> Now india also has an island dispute with srilanka called kacchatheevu someting.


That was the order of the day at that point in time.... everyone wanted to make sure that they got more territory..India succeeded in Most of its attempts...and Pakistan Failed in many attempts...Gilgit Baltistan being the only success(that to is under Legal Question)... and since the king signed document of accession... Pakistan has tried and failed every time they tried to capture few more kilometers of Kashmir territory...

Te fact is : India moved on but Pakistan is still stuck in that time Warp... and that has brought you guys to the situation that you are currently in.

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## asad71

Shamain said:


> Wasnt that called operatio polo?


The so called police action was code named Op Polo. It was led by Gen J N Choudhury who had become infamous for failing to reach the LHR Gymkhana for a drink.

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## Shamain

asad71 said:


> The so called police action was code named Op Polo. It was led by Gen J N Choudhury who had become infamous for failing to reach the LHR Gymkhana for a drink.


I meant see the link of hyderabad massacrre posted by wajsal, so iwas saying wasnt that massacrre part of op polo or was that another event
Oh so it was that shameless sikh general who led op polo,no wonder why he was so high to make such claims.

U have professional title, u have served in bangladesh army, if i can ask?


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## asad71

Shamain said:


> I meant see the link of hyderabad massacrre posted by wajsal, so iwas saying wasnt that massacrre part of op polo or was that another event
> Oh so it was that shameless sikh general who led op polo,no wonder why he was so high to make such claims.
> 
> U have professional title, u have served in bangladesh army, if i can ask?



1.Annexation of Hyderabad was scripted by the Machiavelli in INC, Patel. Political strife were promoted before the military action, during and later. At that time efforts were made to show them as caused by communists. Actually Hindu Mahasabha and Arya Samaj were let loose with the aid of IA. These facts have come out now as the Nehru appointed committee's report had been kept under the rap so long.

2. Rajendra Singhji was the GOC-in-C Southern Command. He was from a ruling family in Kathiwar. His is the famous Jadeja cricket family. JN Chowdhury who had led one of the two axis of advance was a Bengali. It was to him that the Hyderabad CinC El Edroos surrendered.

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## Shamain

asad71 said:


> 1.Annexation of Hyderabad was scripted by the Machiavelli in INC, Patel. Political strife were promoted before the military action, during and later. At that time efforts were made to show them as caused by communists. Actually Hindu Mahasabha and Arya Samaj were let loose with the aid of IA. These facts have come out now as the Nehru appointed committee's report had been kept under the rap so long.
> 
> 2. Rajendra Singhji was the GOC-in-C Southern Command. He was from a ruling family in Kathiwar. His is the famous Jadeja cricket family. JN Chowdhury who had led one of the two axis of advance was a Bengali. It was to him that the Hyderabad CinC El Edroos surrendered.


What is southern command?


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## asad71

Shamain said:


> What is southern command?



IA is massive. They have various Commands like Southern, Eastern, Northern and Western, SW, Central and Training. PA had only one Command pre-71, the Eastern Command. I believe PA has three Commands - N, S and Central.


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## my2cents

Areesh said:


> Independent Kashmir was never a possibility since each and every state had to join Pakistan or Kashmir as per partition plan. As for India. It was always in the picture. If India wouldn't be in the picture, it wouldn't have sent it forces to Srinagar even before signing of the accession by the Hindu Raja. This shows desperation and real intent of Indian state. India always wanted to occupy whole of Kashmir and doing nothing would have been the biggest blunder by Pakistan. Fortunately Pakistan despite opposition by that idiot General Gracie acted quickly and secured areas of GB and AJK or else it would have been no GB And Ajk for Pakistan and no border with China. We saved GB and AJK from hands of Hindu raja.
> 
> As for from where we get the idea that he would massacre his own people. We got the idea since he was already massacring his own people and changed the demographics of Jammu region even before any tribal set his foot in the Kashmir region. *So our doubts and apprehensions towards both Hindu raja and Hindu India were 101% justified*.



What is the point to discuss what he would have done when we already know that he asked for India's help. It is just conjecture on your part to assume that he would have changed the demographics. Mind you it was the tribals and irregulars from your side who were killing unarmed civilians and raping their women. This prompted the raja to seek India's help.


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## Areesh

my2cents said:


> What is the point to discuss what he would have done when we already know that he asked for India's help. It is just conjecture on your part to assume that he would have changed the demographics. Mind you it was the tribals and irregulars from your side who were killing unarmed civilians and raping their women. This prompted the raja to seek India's help.



It is not our assumption. He was busy changing demographics in Kashmir after which Tribals attacked Kashmir to help those innocent muslims. Much before tribals allegedly killed unarmed civilians and raped women that Mahraja was busy mass murdering his own people. This mass murder has been reported and documented by numerous neutral sources and are obviously not part of India's lies and flawed history on Kashmir.


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## my2cents

Areesh said:


> It is not our assumption. He was busy changing demographics in Kashmir after which Tribals attacked Kashmir to help those innocent muslims. Much before tribals allegedly killed unarmed civilians and raped women that Mahraja was busy mass murdering his own people. This mass murder has been reported and documented by numerous neutral sources and are obviously not part of India's lies and flawed history on Kashmir.



Please quote your sources.

All that I read was that you guys had a standstill agreement with Raja Hari Singh but you guys were suspicious that he would accede to India, so send in your irregulars with the backing of your army thus breaking your agreement with him.


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## Areesh

my2cents said:


> Please quote your sources.
> 
> All that I read was that you guys had a standstill agreement with Raja Hari Singh but you guys were suspicious that he would accede to India, so send in your irregulars with the backing of your army thus breaking your agreement with him.



We had no agreement with Raja. It was raja's cruel mass murder of Muslims of Jammu region that led to uprising by Poonch Muslims and who fought for the liberation of Azad Kashmir. It was later that Tribals decided to join them.

Some reads on this massacre:

http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/studies/PDF-FILES/Artical - 7.pdf

The Saga Of Jammu Since 1947 By Abdul Majid Zargar

Something from your own Times of India:



> *Today, Jammu is a Hindu-majority area. But in 1947, it had a Muslim majority.* The communal riots of 1947 fell most heavily on Jammu’s Muslims; lakhs fled into what became Azad Kashmir. That turned Jammu’s Muslim majority into a Hindu majority.* In sheer scale, this far exceeded the ethnic cleansing of Pandits five decades later.*



A tale of two ethnic cleansings in Kashmir - TOI Blogs

@DESERT FIGHTER 

Bro if you want to add more about Jammu massacre 1947??

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## my2cents

Areesh said:


> We had no agreement with Raja. It was raja's cruel mass murder of Muslims of Jammu region that led to uprising by Poonch Muslims and who fought for the liberation of Azad Kashmir. It was later that Tribals decided to join them.
> 
> Some reads on this massacre:
> 
> http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/studies/PDF-FILES/Artical - 7.pdf
> 
> The Saga Of Jammu Since 1947 By Abdul Majid Zargar
> 
> Something from your own Times of India:
> 
> 
> 
> A tale of two ethnic cleansings in Kashmir - TOI Blogs
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Bro if you want to add more about Jammu massacre 1947??



Because of Partition some million souls both hindus and muslims perished. So much bloodshed happened during the ethnic riots it is insane. It is news to me honestly that raja hari singh was involved and instigated the bloodshed.

If the blogs are to be believed then I still don't understand why you guys had a stand still agreement with the Raja and then later dishonor it?


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## Areesh

my2cents said:


> Because of Partition some million souls both hindus and muslims perished. So much bloodshed happened during the ethnic riots it is insane. It is news to me honestly that raja hari singh was involved and instigated the bloodshed.
> 
> If the blogs are to be believed then I still don't understand why you guys had a stand still agreement with the Raja and then later dishonor it?



Well but those massacres and killings cannot not be compared to the killings of Jammu. Since ruler himself was part of these killings unlike killings of Punjab or Bengal where killings were done by the ordinary people. Raja's involvement in massacre is a news to you since you are often taught flawed and bogus history when it comes to Kashmir and Pakistan.

Blogs are to be believed since you have nothing to disapprove them. And we had no agreement of stand still with the Raja. So you are wrong again.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Areesh said:


> Well but those massacres and killings cannot not be compared to the killings of Jammu. Since ruler himself was part of these killings unlike killings of Punjab or Bengal where killings were done by the ordinary people. Raja's involvement in massacre is a news to you since you are often taught flawed and bogus history when it comes to Kashmir and Pakistan.
> 
> Blogs are to be believed since you have nothing to disapprove them. And we had no agreement of stand still with the Raja. So you are wrong again.


He was supported by maharaja of patiala and several other arseholes ... Even places,markets (with muslim names were changed..) the genocode n brutalities are also covered by western journalists..

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## Areesh

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> He was supported by maharaja of patiala and several other arseholes ... Even places,markets (with muslim names were changed..) the genocode n brutalities are also covered by western journalists..



Not to forget RSS itself was part of this carnage.


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## Secur

@WAJsal Great effort, mate. Keep it up. Appreciate the time and effort expensed for the creation of this well researched article.

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## WAJsal

Secur said:


> @WAJsal Great effort, mate. Keep it up. Appreciate the time and effort expensed for the creation of this well researched article.


Thank you for the kind words. Do give these topic a read too, similarly well researched and very informative.
What has obstructed Pakistan's rise .
POTENTIAL OF RENEWABLE ENERGIES IN PAKISTAN

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## WAJsal

@Slav Defence , read the OP whenever you have the time, it's long but quite informative.

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## WAJsal

*A Little back ground
*







The entire north-west of the Indian sub-continent was, in the autumn of 1947, aflame with communal riots. In October 1947, the disturbances spread to the State of Jammu and Kashmir also. The Gilgit area of the state had an overwhelmingly Muslim population, made up of turbulent hill-men. The position was complicated by the existence of the semi-feudal principalities of Chitral, Hunza, Nagar etc which had been brought under Dogra rule in the 19th Century.

In July 1947, Gilgit was still being administered by the Government of India, to whom it had been made over by the State Government on lease for 60 years. The departure of the British from India being imminent. Colonel Roger Bacon, then Political Agent in Gilgit, that the Viceroy Lord Mountbatten, had decided (for reasons which were not clear to Bacon and which are still not clear) that the 1935 British lease of the Gilgit Agency fiom the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir (a lease which still had 49 years to run) was going to be terminated and that the Agency, with a 99% Muslim population, was going to be returned to the Hindu rule of the Dogra Maharaja Sir Hari Singh. Late in July 1947, the State Government appointed Brig Ghansara Singh, one of the most senior officers of the State's Force, to be the Governor of Gilgit. He flew to Gilgit on 30 July 1947 and took over the administration from Lt Col Bacon, the British Political Agent, on 01 August 1947.

Of the subordinate chiefs under the Governor of Gilgit, namely, the Mir of Hunza, the Mir of Nagar, the Raja of Punial, and the chieftains of Koh Ghizar, Yasin, and Ashkoman, only the Mirs of Hunza and Nagar were hostile.

Their hostility proved very damaging, for three-fourths of the men of the Gilgit Scouts came from Hunza and Nagar.

The two British officers of the Gilgit Scouts whose services had been retained by the State, namely Major WA Brown and Captain Matheson, proved themselves inveterately hostile to Jammu & Kashmir State and took the leading part in the pro-Pakistan treachery at Gilgit. The predominantly Muslim civil employees of the Government of Gilgit were also pro-Pakistan and they backed the demands of the Scouts for special rates of pay and other concessions for serving the Jammu & Kashmir State soon after Brig Ghansara Singh took over charge.

It should be noted, however, that the Gilgit Scouts and the local people were still free from the violent communal passions then sweeping through the Punjab and did not favor killing or converting by force the non-Muslims at Gilgit.

Not the State's own Muslim troops. Gilgit area was garrisoned by 6 J&K Infantry, less than two companies with Headquarters at Bunji, about 54 kms from Gilgit on the road to Srinagar. Commanded by Lt. Col Abdul Majid Khan, the battalion was composed of Muslims and Sikhs in almost equal proportions. The Sikhs, according to the Commanding Officer, were raw recruits and were not fit for active duty for the next 5-6 months, till they had fired their musketry course. The Muslim companies had men from Punch and they having heard all about the horrible communal killings in Punjab, were in a violently communal frame of mind.

Wild rumors raged in Gilgit in the last week of October when the tribal invasion of Kashmir began. The common people remained friendly, but there was clear evidence that Major Brown and Sub Major Babar Khan of the Scouts were planning some trouble. Some locals advised the Governor to call up 6 J&K Infantry from Bunji, but Brig Ghansara Singh realized that State Force's Muslim men were as disaffected as and more violent than the Scouts. The Sikhs of 6 J&K Infantry could not be called up due to the opposition of Lt. Col Abdul Majid Khan, the Commanding Officer.

At about midnight between 31 October-1 November 1947, about 100 men of the Gilgit Scouts, led by Major Brown, Lieut Haidar Khan and Sub Major Babar Khan, surrounded the Governor's house and tried to steal in to capture him in sleep. He woke up, however, and started using his revolver, backed up by his orderly and driver who were handed a double-barrel shotgun and a sporting rifle.

The Scouts then opened machine gun fire on the house. Exchange of fire went on for several hours, and two men of the Gilgit Scouts were killed. The following morning the governor had no choice but to surrender, the Governor surrendered and was put under arrest.

The local people protested against this, and villagers from the surrounding areas began to gather in Gilgit. The Scouts' leaders managed Â to pacify them and sent them away, but probably this demonstration of the people's affection saved the Governor and other non-Muslims from being murdered in cold blood. Lt Col Abdul Majid Khan, the CO of 6 J&K Infantry, was also imprisoned by the Gilgit Scouts and their British officers.

The entire Gilgit region passed into the hands of Pakistan early in November 1947. At first a provisional Government was formed, of which the leaders were Major Brown, Captain Hassan, Captain Ehsan Ali, Captain Muhammad Khan, Captain Sayeed, Lieut Haidar, and Sub Major Babar Khan. It is notable that none of the local Rajas nor any member of the public was included in the Provisional Government.

On 3 November 1947, Major Brown held a flag hoisting ceremony at Gilgit in the Socut Lines. After about a fortnight, one Sardar Mohammad Alam, a Pathan and obviously a nominee of Pakistan, came from Peshawar and took over the administration as Political Agent at Gilgit.

For a more detailed version, please read the OP. Thank you
@Gufi ,@Slav Defence ,@Secur ,@Akheilos ,@Shamain ,@Atanz , @DESERT FIGHTER ,@FaujHistorian ,@Icarus ,@S.U.R.B. ,@IrbiS ,@Arsalan ,@syedali73 ,@waz ,@TankMan .......

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## WAJsal

Played a major part in Gilgit Baltistan's liberation. It was Maj Brown Commander of the Gilgit Scouts serving under the Governor of Gilgit who had revolted and arrested the Governor on 1st Nov and handed over the entire area of Baltistan to Pakistan without a fight. If ti wasn't for his and and many other hero's. India would have control over this region.
All those interested can read this book. A great book, taking us back in time to the event's that had taken place back then.
Link for this book online: LINK ,

Without William Brown it is more than likely that in the end the Gilgit region would have passed into the hands of India. Pakistan would have been cut off for ever from Central Asia. India would have been in direct contact with Afghanistan, in many respects at least, is hostile to Pakistan as ever India has been. What would the fate of Pakistan have been in I best, circumstances?
An extract from the book:

*PREFACE
[William Alexander Brown, 1922-1984]*
William Alexander Brown, Willie to his friends, was born in Melrose in the Scottish Borders on 22 December 1922. His father, William Neilson Brown, had served with distinction in the Gordon Highlanders during World War I, and had been awarded the Military Cross. His grandfather, Alexander Laing Brown, had been Liberal MP for the Border Burghs from 1886 to 1892. The Brown family had played a prominent part in the development of the woollen trade in the Borders: they were responsible for building some of the first mills in Selkirk, Galashiels and Hawick.

William Brown was educated at St Mary’s Preparatory School, Melrose, and George Watsons College, Edinburgh. In April 194l, on leaving school, he enlisted in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

In December 1941 he sailed for India. Here, he attended the Officer Cadet training unit at Bangalore and was then commissioned as a 2nd lieutenant into the 10/12 Frontier Force Regiment. He transferred almost at once to the Frontier Corps of Scouts and Militia, serving initially in the South Waziristan Scouts on the Afghan border of the North Western Frontier Province. He soon became proficient in Pushto, the language of the Pathans.
In early 1943 William Brown was posted to the Gilgit Agency where he spent the next three years, for a time serving as Assistant Political Agent in Chilas (when he was responsible for the construction of the Chilas Polo Ground still in use today). He travelled widely throughout the Gilgit Agency in Hunza, Nagir, Yasin, Ishkoman, Punial and Guh Khizr, gaining experience which was to stand him in good stead when he had to facethe Gilgit crisis of 1947 which is described in detail in this book. While in the Gilgit Agency during this time he learnt Shina the lingua franca of the region, as well as some Burushaski, the language of Hunza. Some impression of his first time in the Gilgit Agency is conveyed in Chapter 1 of this book.

In 1946, after Gilgit, William Brown served briefly in the Tochi Scouts, based in North Waziristan, and then in June 1947 he was posted to Chitral as Acting Commandant Scouts there.
In Peshawar, enroute for Chitral, he was told by Lt.—Colonel Roger Bacon, then Political Agent in Gilgit, that the Viceroy Lord Mountbatten, had decided (for reasons which were not clear to Bacon and which are still not clear) that the 1935 British lease of the Gilgit Agency fiom the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir (a lease which still had 49 years to run) was going to be terminated andthat the Agency, with a 99% Muslim population, was going to be returned to the Hindu rule of the Dogra Maharaja Sir Hari Singh. The actual transfer would take place, Colonel Bacon told him, on 1 August 1947 two weeks before the recently announced end of the British Indian Empire on 15August. It was put to him that he would be a suitable candidate for the position of the Commandant of the Gilgit Scouts during and after this period of transition. William Brown while fully appreciating the difficulties and dangers involved, and angry that the British could so callously return without any preparation or warning the Muslim people of the Gilgit Agency to by no means congenial Hindu rule, volunteered for the task even though it meant leaving the British service and become in effect a mercenary employed by the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir.

After a very brief period in Chitral the position of Commandant of the Gilgit Scouts was indeed offered to him. He accepted at once. He was given the acting rank of Major. On 29 July 1947 he arrived in Gilgit just in time to witness the formal handover on 1 August, when the British flag was lowered and that of Jammu & Kashmir raised in its place. Colonel Bacon, the last British Political Agent, departed: his place was taken by Brigadier Ghansara Singh the representative of the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir.

What followed between August 1947 and January 1948, when William Brown was finally withdrawn from Gilgit (now part of Pakistan), is described in considerable detail in Chapters II to V of this book. One must always remember that when these events took place William Brown was only 24 or 25 years old (he celebrated his 25th birthday in Gilgit). One must also remember that once William Brown had embarked upon the process which resulted in the Gilgit Agency declaring for Pakistan he was technically in a state of mutiny against the Government of State of Jammu & Kashmir. Had he been captured by the Maharaja’s forces, he would almost certainly have been put to death, as he well knew.

After his return from Gilgit in 1948, William Brown was transferred to the Frontier Constabulary, the police force of the North Western Frontier Province (by now, of course, of Pakistan) in which he served in various capacities for the next two years.

In July 1948 William Brown was awarded the MBE (Military) with a citation so unspecific that it was not clear what lay behind this acknowledgement of his merits. He assumed that somewhere within the British military establishment there were those who approved of what he had done in Gilgit to ensure that this region went to Pakistan rather than to India. He was only too aware that there were other leading British figures, not least Lord Mountbatten, who were far from pleased by his intervention in the affairs of the post British Subcontinent.

William Brown felt deeply attached to Pakistan and did not wish to leave the country. He sought therefore, some position there in commerce after leaving the Frontier Constabulary. Sir George Cunningham, formerly Governor of the North West Frontier Province (and who figures in this book, as the reader will see), obtained for him a position in Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI) as a Sales Executive. Unfortunately, in this capacity his first posting was for Calcutta in India. During his time in Gilgit William Brown had evidently made a number of determined enemies among the Sikhs, perhaps because of his involvement (described in the book) in the destruction of the Sikh component of the 6th Kashmir Infantry in Bunji. In Calcutta he was set upon by Sikhs and left for dead in the street. Miraculously he was found by a doctor and he recovered. He was then posted to Karachi in Pakistan.

In early 1957 William Brown met Margaret Rosemary Cooksley, who was serving with the UK High Commission in Karachi. They married. In 1958 a son, William, was born.

William Brown was a keen sportsman. While at school he had become a good marksman, having shot at Bisley where he captained the school team. When; with the War, cartridges became scarce, he became interested in falconry. While in Gilgit, the local national game of polo captured his enthusiasm and he became very skilled at it: he had already become a superb horseman. In later years in Karachi he played polo using at times Gilgit tactics which did not always win universal approval. Also in Karachi William Brown took up racing as an armature jockey and as a trainer, in both capacities with some success.

During these Karachi years he did not lose touch with the mountains of the old Gilgit Agency. He became the local secretary for Pakistan of the Himalayan Society and helped many expeditions coming to Pakistan to climb in the Karakorum, Hindu Kush, Pamir’s and Himalaya.

In 1959 William Brown and his family returned to the United Kingdom. He felt that the day of the expatriate in the commerce of the subcontinent was passing and that it was time to head for home. As by this time he could not imagine a life without horses, in 1960 he established livery yard and riding school, Glenside Stables, in the village of St Boswells in the Duke of Buccleuch’s Hunt country. Here he remained respected as teacher and judge of horses for the next twenty-four years. During this time there were four more children Frances, Timothy Katy and Helen.

On 5 December 1984 a week before his 62nd birthday, William Brown died after a sudden heart attack. Few of his wide circle of friends had appreciated quite what an impact on the history of South Asia he had had during his time in Gilgit in 1947 and early 1948 since he never spoke of his adventures in those days they were surprised when accounts of the Gilgit Rebellion the subject of this book, appeared in obituaries in _The Times, The Daily Telegraph _and various local Border newspapers. Indeed itwas only after his death that the full truth about what he had achieved in Gilgit made his enormous contribution to the future success of Pakistan began to come to light. Hitherto for a variety of reasons, which need not concern us here, there had been a tendency to minimise, ifnot ignore entirely, his part in the great events of 1947 which are the subject of this book. In the end, justice to his memory was to some measure, done with the awarding, on Independence Day 1993, of the medal Sitara-i-Pakistan as a posthumous recognition by Pakistan of his great contribution. His widow Margaret received the medal in Islamabad from the hands of President Leghari on Pakistan Day, 23 March 1994.

William Brown is buried in Benrig churchyard, in the heart of the Border country, which he had loved so much. On his gravestone is engraved the Ibex head badge of the Gilgit Scouts and the legend, DATA KHEL. 31.10.47 (the significance of which will become apparent to the readers of this book).

A word about this book. William Brown kept a diary until at least until his return from Gilgit in January 1948. The actual diary has been lost (apparently it was stolen) but at some point before 1950, probably as early as 1948, William Brown wrote it up in narrative form, perhaps intending to publish it. In the end it was not published and the top copy was lost. A carbon copy however, survived. This is what is reproduced below. There has been the absolute minimum of editorial interference. A few pages have been omitted, mainly because they digress from the main thrust of the narrative. Spelling has, we hope, been standardised and there have been minor alterations in schemes of punctuation. Otherwise, this is what William Brown wrote when the events described were still fresh in his mind after the passage of no more than a year or so and with his diary before him. In many ways it is a unique document, the story of an adventure of a kind which William Brown may well have been the last Briton to experience in the Indian Subcontinent with the passing of the British Raj. It was an adventure, moreover, which changed the course of history to an extent that few other individuals can have achieved. Without William Brown it is more than likely that in the end the Gilgit region would have passed into the hands of India. Pakistan would have been cut off for ever from Central Asia. India would have been in direct contact with Afghanistan, in many respects at least, is hostile to Pakistan as ever India has been. What would the fate of Pakistan have been in I best, circumstances?

Just a piece of history i hope you guy's give it a read. It's worth a read. Won't take all the credit, i have simply compiled it. And wrote, to some extent. All from credible sources. Do give it a read. Thank you.
@Icarus ,@Atanz ,@Irfan Baloch ,@waz ,@Shamain ,@IrbiS ,@S.U.R.B. ,@AUSTERLITZ ,@Secur ,@scorpionx ,@levina ,@Akheilos ,@syedali73 ,@Arsalan , @MastanKhan ,@Psychic ,@DESERT FIGHTER ,@nair ,@Jungibaaz ,@Georgeclark ,@Armstrong , @FaujHistorian ,@jamahir ,@TheFlyingPretzel @RescueRanger .................................

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## Georgeclark

WAJsal said:


> Played a major part in Gilgit Baltistan's liberation. It was Maj Brown Commander of the Gilgit Scouts serving under the Governor of Gilgit who had revolted and arrested the Governor on 1st Nov and handed over the entire area of Baltistan to Pakistan without a fight. If ti wasn't for his and and many other hero's. India would have control over this region.
> All those interested can read this book. A great book, taking us back in time to the event's that had taken place back then.
> Link for this book online: LINK ,
> 
> Without William Brown it is more than likely that in the end the Gilgit region would have passed into the hands of India. Pakistan would have been cut off for ever from Central Asia. India would have been in direct contact with Afghanistan, in many respects at least, is hostile to Pakistan as ever India has been. What would the fate of Pakistan have been in I best, circumstances?
> An extract from the book:
> 
> *PREFACE
> [William Alexander Brown, 1922-1984]*
> William Alexander Brown, Willie to his friends, was born in Melrose in the Scottish Borders on 22 December 1922. His father, William Neilson Brown, had served with distinction in the Gordon Highlanders during World War I, and had been awarded the Military Cross. His grandfather, Alexander Laing Brown, had been Liberal MP for the Border Burghs from 1886 to 1892. The Brown family had played a prominent part in the development of the woollen trade in the Borders: they were responsible for building some of the first mills in Selkirk, Galashiels and Hawick.
> 
> William Brown was educated at St Mary’s Preparatory School, Melrose, and George Watsons College, Edinburgh. In April 194l, on leaving school, he enlisted in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.
> 
> In December 1941 he sailed for India. Here, he attended the Officer Cadet training unit at Bangalore and was then commissioned as a 2nd lieutenant into the 10/12 Frontier Force Regiment. He transferred almost at once to the Frontier Corps of Scouts and Militia, serving initially in the South Waziristan Scouts on the Afghan border of the North Western Frontier Province. He soon became proficient in Pushto, the language of the Pathans.
> In early 1943 William Brown was posted to the Gilgit Agency where he spent the next three years, for a time serving as Assistant Political Agent in Chilas (when he was responsible for the construction of the Chilas Polo Ground still in use today). He travelled widely throughout the Gilgit Agency in Hunza, Nagir, Yasin, Ishkoman, Punial and Guh Khizr, gaining experience which was to stand him in good stead when he had to facethe Gilgit crisis of 1947 which is described in detail in this book. While in the Gilgit Agency during this time he learnt Shina the lingua franca of the region, as well as some Burushaski, the language of Hunza. Some impression of his first time in the Gilgit Agency is conveyed in Chapter 1 of this book.
> 
> In 1946, after Gilgit, William Brown served briefly in the Tochi Scouts, based in North Waziristan, and then in June 1947 he was posted to Chitral as Acting Commandant Scouts there.
> In Peshawar, enroute for Chitral, he was told by Lt.—Colonel Roger Bacon, then Political Agent in Gilgit, that the Viceroy Lord Mountbatten, had decided (for reasons which were not clear to Bacon and which are still not clear) that the 1935 British lease of the Gilgit Agency fiom the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir (a lease which still had 49 years to run) was going to be terminated andthat the Agency, with a 99% Muslim population, was going to be returned to the Hindu rule of the Dogra Maharaja Sir Hari Singh. The actual transfer would take place, Colonel Bacon told him, on 1 August 1947 two weeks before the recently announced end of the British Indian Empire on 15August. It was put to him that he would be a suitable candidate for the position of the Commandant of the Gilgit Scouts during and after this period of transition. William Brown while fully appreciating the difficulties and dangers involved, and angry that the British could so callously return without any preparation or warning the Muslim people of the Gilgit Agency to by no means congenial Hindu rule, volunteered for the task even though it meant leaving the British service and become in effect a mercenary employed by the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir.
> 
> After a very brief period in Chitral the position of Commandant of the Gilgit Scouts was indeed offered to him. He accepted at once. He was given the acting rank of Major. On 29 July 1947 he arrived in Gilgit just in time to witness the formal handover on 1 August, when the British flag was lowered and that of Jammu & Kashmir raised in its place. Colonel Bacon, the last British Political Agent, departed: his place was taken by Brigadier Ghansara Singh the representative of the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir.
> 
> What followed between August 1947 and January 1948, when William Brown was finally withdrawn from Gilgit (now part of Pakistan), is described in considerable detail in Chapters II to V of this book. One must always remember that when these events took place William Brown was only 24 or 25 years old (he celebrated his 25th birthday in Gilgit). One must also remember that once William Brown had embarked upon the process which resulted in the Gilgit Agency declaring for Pakistan he was technically in a state of mutiny against the Government of State of Jammu & Kashmir. Had he been captured by the Maharaja’s forces, he would almost certainly have been put to death, as he well knew.
> 
> After his return from Gilgit in 1948, William Brown was transferred to the Frontier Constabulary, the police force of the North Western Frontier Province (by now, of course, of Pakistan) in which he served in various capacities for the next two years.
> 
> In July 1948 William Brown was awarded the MBE (Military) with a citation so unspecific that it was not clear what lay behind this acknowledgement of his merits. He assumed that somewhere within the British military establishment there were those who approved of what he had done in Gilgit to ensure that this region went to Pakistan rather than to India. He was only too aware that there were other leading British figures, not least Lord Mountbatten, who were far from pleased by his intervention in the affairs of the post British Subcontinent.
> 
> William Brown felt deeply attached to Pakistan and did not wish to leave the country. He sought therefore, some position there in commerce after leaving the Frontier Constabulary. Sir George Cunningham, formerly Governor of the North West Frontier Province (and who figures in this book, as the reader will see), obtained for him a position in Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI) as a Sales Executive. Unfortunately, in this capacity his first posting was for Calcutta in India. During his time in Gilgit William Brown had evidently made a number of determined enemies among the Sikhs, perhaps because of his involvement (described in the book) in the destruction of the Sikh component of the 6th Kashmir Infantry in Bunji. In Calcutta he was set upon by Sikhs and left for dead in the street. Miraculously he was found by a doctor and he recovered. He was then posted to Karachi in Pakistan.
> 
> In early 1957 William Brown met Margaret Rosemary Cooksley, who was serving with the UK High Commission in Karachi. They married. In 1958 a son, William, was born.
> 
> William Brown was a keen sportsman. While at school he had become a good marksman, having shot at Bisley where he captained the school team. When; with the War, cartridges became scarce, he became interested in falconry. While in Gilgit, the local national game of polo captured his enthusiasm and he became very skilled at it: he had already become a superb horseman. In later years in Karachi he played polo using at times Gilgit tactics which did not always win universal approval. Also in Karachi William Brown took up racing as an armature jockey and as a trainer, in both capacities with some success.
> 
> During these Karachi years he did not lose touch with the mountains of the old Gilgit Agency. He became the local secretary for Pakistan of the Himalayan Society and helped many expeditions coming to Pakistan to climb in the Karakorum, Hindu Kush, Pamir’s and Himalaya.
> 
> In 1959 William Brown and his family returned to the United Kingdom. He felt that the day of the expatriate in the commerce of the subcontinent was passing and that it was time to head for home. As by this time he could not imagine a life without horses, in 1960 he established livery yard and riding school, Glenside Stables, in the village of St Boswells in the Duke of Buccleuch’s Hunt country. Here he remained respected as teacher and judge of horses for the next twenty-four years. During this time there were four more children Frances, Timothy Katy and Helen.
> 
> On 5 December 1984 a week before his 62nd birthday, William Brown died after a sudden heart attack. Few of his wide circle of friends had appreciated quite what an impact on the history of South Asia he had had during his time in Gilgit in 1947 and early 1948 since he never spoke of his adventures in those days they were surprised when accounts of the Gilgit Rebellion the subject of this book, appeared in obituaries in _The Times, The Daily Telegraph _and various local Border newspapers. Indeed itwas only after his death that the full truth about what he had achieved in Gilgit made his enormous contribution to the future success of Pakistan began to come to light. Hitherto for a variety of reasons, which need not concern us here, there had been a tendency to minimise, ifnot ignore entirely, his part in the great events of 1947 which are the subject of this book. In the end, justice to his memory was to some measure, done with the awarding, on Independence Day 1993, of the medal Sitara-i-Pakistan as a posthumous recognition by Pakistan of his great contribution. His widow Margaret received the medal in Islamabad from the hands of President Leghari on Pakistan Day, 23 March 1994.
> 
> William Brown is buried in Benrig churchyard, in the heart of the Border country, which he had loved so much. On his gravestone is engraved the Ibex head badge of the Gilgit Scouts and the legend, DATA KHEL. 31.10.47 (the significance of which will become apparent to the readers of this book).
> 
> A word about this book. William Brown kept a diary until at least until his return from Gilgit in January 1948. The actual diary has been lost (apparently it was stolen) but at some point before 1950, probably as early as 1948, William Brown wrote it up in narrative form, perhaps intending to publish it. In the end it was not published and the top copy was lost. A carbon copy however, survived. This is what is reproduced below. There has been the absolute minimum of editorial interference. A few pages have been omitted, mainly because they digress from the main thrust of the narrative. Spelling has, we hope, been standardised and there have been minor alterations in schemes of punctuation. Otherwise, this is what William Brown wrote when the events described were still fresh in his mind after the passage of no more than a year or so and with his diary before him. In many ways it is a unique document, the story of an adventure of a kind which William Brown may well have been the last Briton to experience in the Indian Subcontinent with the passing of the British Raj. It was an adventure, moreover, which changed the course of history to an extent that few other individuals can have achieved. Without William Brown it is more than likely that in the end the Gilgit region would have passed into the hands of India. Pakistan would have been cut off for ever from Central Asia. India would have been in direct contact with Afghanistan, in many respects at least, is hostile to Pakistan as ever India has been. What would the fate of Pakistan have been in I best, circumstances?
> 
> Just a piece of history i hope you guy's give it a read. It's worth a read. Won't take all the credit, i have simply sompiled it. And wrote, to some extent. All from credible sources. Do give it a read. Thank you.
> @Icarus ,@Atanz ,@Irfan Baloch ,@waz ,@Shamain ,@IrbiS ,@S.U.R.B. ,@AUSTERLITZ ,@Secur ,@scorpionx ,@levina ,@Akheilos ,@syedali73 ,@Arsalan , @MastanKhan ,@Psychic ,@DESERT FIGHTER ,@nair ,@Jungibaaz ,@Georgeclark ,@Armstrong , @FaujHistorian .................................


I read some of it earlier and you compiled more of it. Nice work mate


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## HariPrasad

It was because of Naheru's stupidity who stopped indian army to recapture the captured area of Pakistan.


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## WAJsal

Georgeclark said:


> I read some of it earlier and you compiled more of it. Nice work mate


Wasn't easy took me a couple of hour's. Hope you guy's give it a read. It's worth a read. Both posts. Thank you.

@Slav Defence , @Gufi ,@TankMan done give both post's a read. Post number 86 and 85.

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## SarthakGanguly

Jamwal said:


> Brother i have my roots in J&K and fully agree with you .. Had only 10000 Dogra/Jamwal troops were in the service of Hari Singh like 1800s he would have cleanse the infiltrators from the valley.
> 
> If you are aware that it was the same dogras who kicked the same tribal after bought Kashmir from British so as long as the Dogra rule remained strong these tribals never showed their faced and some who left were forced to work in our farms along with their women.


Not possible. The princely states were all corrupt. The Islamists, though inhuman, had a real motivation...to free Muslim lands from non Muslim control. Islamists have similar goals to this day.


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## Arsalan

Nice read @WAJsal have read about half of it and have bookmarked to read the whole in some free time with a peaceful mind, looks interesting.

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## WAJsal

Arsalan said:


> Nice read @WAJsal have read about half of it and have bookmarked to read the whole in some free time with a peaceful mind, looks interesting.


Sir give the OP a read first. Followed by post number 85. And then this post you were reading. Thank you. And share your feedback. 

Anyone who is reading this, both post's are quite informative post number 85 and 87, they are long but deserve a read. An important part of our history. 
regards


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## Arsalan

WAJsal said:


> Sir give the OP a read first. Followed by post number 85. And then this post you were reading. Thank you. And share your feedback.
> 
> Anyone who is reading this, both post's are quite informative post number 85 and 87, they are long but deserve a read. An important part of our history.
> regards


will do!! thanks for bringing this up!


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## WAJsal

Arsalan said:


> will do!! thanks for bringing this up!


Tag anyone who i might have missed. This is a important part of our history. Not many know about this. Always good to know more.


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## SarthakGanguly

Jamwal said:


> I am talking about Kashmiri Muslim under Dogras it was dogras and Sikhs who freed them from pakhtoun oppression in 1800s they only gathered the courage when their rule was weakened as Dogras started to be recruited by British Indian Army making them quit the service of Princely state.


Maybe they preferred a brutal unstable Islamic Pashtun ruled land rather than be at peace with Hindus. Of course, one could force them, but for that Hindus then would have needed to do things that very few were prepared to do.

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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> Maybe they preferred a brutal unstable Islamic Pashtun ruled land rather than be at peace with Hindus. Of course, one could force them, but for that Hindus then would have needed to do things that very few were prepared to do.



But they are not living under brutal unstable Islamic Pushtun rule as you are saying. So what new lie you are pushing here?

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> But they are not living under brutal unstable Islamic Pushtun rule as you are saying. So what new lie you are pushing here?


Read the meaning of 'maybe' 3 times. Out loud. And the date is late seventeenth and eighteenth century.


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> Read the meaning of 'maybe' 3 times. Out loud. And the date is late seventeenth century.



I know the meaning. But since that "may be" didn't happen so people of GB made a good choice? Right?


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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> I know the meaning. But since that "may be" didn't happen so people of GB made a good choice? Right?


Yes of course they did. About 120 Indian non Muslims were taken prisoner. Not one returned alive. But that's what happens when you go unprepared.


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> Yes of course they did. About 120 Indian non Muslims were taken prisoner. Not one returned alive. But that's what happens when you go unprepared.



Worst happened with Muslims in Jammu under Dog-ra raj. Anyways good that you appreciate their timely and wise decision.

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## Matrixx

Horus said:


> Our kin in Indian occupied Kashmir shall see brighter days too.


How about East Pakistan...when they will see bright days?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

SarthakGanguly said:


> Not possible. The princely states were all corrupt. The Islamists, though inhuman, had a real motivation...to free Muslim lands from non Muslim control. Islamists have similar goals to this day.




Yeah sure.. The massacre of KAshmiris in the valley is well known... Julab oops ghulab singhs forces - wirh support from indian govt Aswell as maharaja of patiala are all well published facts.

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> Worst happened with Muslims in Jammu under Dog-ra raj. Anyways good that you appreciate their timely and wise decision.


The Hindus and Sikhs from west Punjab were settled first in Sialkot and then in Jammu. What do you expect to happen in a riot? Hindus take Gandhi's advise and mutely die in Muslim attacks? Sorry, in riots both sides kill. In Jammu it was the other way round, that's all. I am not defending the actions, but explaining them.


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> The Hindus and Sikhs from west Punjab were settled first in Sialkot and then in Jammu. What do you expect to happen in a riot? Hindus take Gandhi's advise and mutely die in Muslim attacks? Sorry, in riots both sides kill. In Jammu it was the other way round, that's all. I am not defending the actions, but explaining them.



It was not a simple riot. It was a state sponsored genocide. Riots are what happened in Punjab and Bengal. State sponsored massacres are what happened in Jammu. There is a huge difference. It was a deliberate attempt by Dog-ra ruler to change demographics of the Jammu region.

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> It was not a simple riot. It was a state sponsored genocide. Riots are what happened in Punjab and Bengal. State sponsored massacres are what happened in Jammu. There is a huge difference.


And still so many survived? Hindus really do a shoddy job when it comes to ethnic cleansing.


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> And still so many survived? Hindus really do a shoddy job when it comes to ethnic cleansing.



Yup. May be because Dog-ra ruler couldn't get enough time to complete the job with tribals attacking Jammu to help their Muslim bretheren. But still Dog-ra rule did a good job. So don't be sad.



> *Today, Jammu is a Hindu-majority area. But in 1947, it had a Muslim majority.* The communal riots of 1947 fell most heavily on Jammu’s Muslims; lakhs fled into what became Azad Kashmir. *That turned Jammu’s Muslim majority into a Hindu majority*. In sheer scale, *this far exceeded* the ethnic cleansing of Pandits five decades later.



A tale of two ethnic cleansings in Kashmir - TOI Blogs

So cheers.


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## Shamain

@fakhre mirpur @Umair Nawaz u guys shud read this thread

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## WAJsal

@Sulman Badshah ,@Color_Less_Sky , forgot to tag you guy's, read post number 85 and 86. Thank you.
How Gilgit-Baltistan got liberated . | Page 6


PoKeMon said:


> What BS?
> 
> Purest muslims are killing everyone non muslim or lessor muslims.
> 
> Last day boko haram kills 150, and ISIS killing dozens on daily basis. Not to forget the barbaric muslim invaders.


They have nothing to do with Islam. Don't generalize them to be Muslims. Grow some sense. Such a poor post.
(edit your post if you want me to remove negative rating)


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## WAJsal

PoKeMon said:


> Calling Indians as blood thristy and using hindus to denote us?


Please report such posts. 


PoKeMon said:


> And yes purest of muslims are killing lessor muslims. Aren't they muslim? Can you even judge who is muslim or not or its prerogative of Allah?


ISIS or any other group have nothing to do with Islam. They commit act's which are not allowed in Islam, anyone who transgresses cannot be called a Muslim. I still don't get why you would call them Muslims. 
Say rape or killing is against Hinduism. Anyone who commits these act's in the name of Hinduism, can he be called a Hindu? clearly he cannot.


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## Sulman Badshah

WAJsal said:


> @Sulman Badshah ,@Color_Less_Sky , forgot to tag you guy's, read post number 85 and 86. Thank you.
> How Gilgit-Baltistan got liberated . | Page 6
> 
> They have nothing to do with Islam. Don't generalize them to be Muslims. Grow some sense. Such a poor post.
> (edit your post if you want me to remove negative rating)


nicely written 
I would like to add some information about Col mirza khan 

Col Mirza Hassan Khan[miltary cross,fakhar e kashmir] life taken in Gilgit city when he returned back after climbing Nagral/Barmas highest mountain three months before his death on 19th nov 1983.
He was the first regular army commissioned officer from Gilgit Baltistan . He got basic military training from Cadet Training School , Jammu and Indian Military Academy, Dehradun. He fought in Waziristan for the English, participated alongwith 4 J&K Battalion in Second World War in Burma ( 4 J&K revolted in 1947 in Muzaffarabad ) , Staged the overthrow of Dogra regime in The whole State of J&K in case in case Maharaja accedes with India , uprooted the Dogra regime in Gilgit, when it technically became part of India on 26 Oct 1947, by surgically wiping it off on 1Nov 1947. Thereafter he fought as the Commander in Chief on Gilgit - Baltistan - Laddakh - Kashmir front and thereafter as Commander of Tiger Force on Astore Kashmir axis. He also undertook many operations and skirmishes on Bagh, Rawalakot, Kotli Sectors. He was in the famous Rawalpindi Conspiracy case 1951, to capture GHQ in Rawalpindi and then to lead and command advance onto Srinagar. He was twice imprisoned for close to 7 years . Formulated the first indigenous political Party in Gilgit in 1955 - 56, after release from Attock, Lahore, Multan and Haiderabad Jails. He served as Defence Secretary in AJK , govt.


here is his one of the last photo

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## WAJsal

Sulman Badshah said:


> nicely written
> I would like to add some information about Col mirza khan
> 
> Col Mirza Hassan Khan[miltary cross,fakhar e kashmir] life taken in Gilgit city when he returned back after climbing Nagral/Barmas highest mountain three months before his death on 19th nov 1983.
> He was the first regular army commissioned officer from Gilgit Baltistan . He got basic military training from Cadet Training School , Jammu and Indian Military Academy, Dehradun. He fought in Waziristan for the English, participated alongwith 4 J&K Battalion in Second World War in Burma ( 4 J&K revolted in 1947 in Muzaffarabad ) , Staged the overthrow of Dogra regime in The whole State of J&K in case in case Maharaja accedes with India , uprooted the Dogra regime in Gilgit, when it technically became part of India on 26 Oct 1947, by surgically wiping it off on 1Nov 1947. Thereafter he fought as the Commander in Chief on Gilgit - Baltistan - Laddakh - Kashmir front and thereafter as Commander of Tiger Force on Astore Kashmir axis. He also undertook many operations and skirmishes on Bagh, Rawalakot, Kotli Sectors. He was in the famous Rawalpindi Conspiracy case 1951, to capture GHQ in Rawalpindi and then to lead and command advance onto Srinagar. He was twice imprisoned for close to 7 years . Formulated the first indigenous political Party in Gilgit in 1955 - 56, after release from Attock, Lahore, Multan and Haiderabad Jails. He served as Defence Secretary in AJK , govt.
> 
> 
> here is his one of the last photo
> View attachment 234751


Lovely. Good post. Thank's for the share.

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## waz

Areesh said:


> Yup GB guys fought on their own. But for AJK we had to fought.



Nope AJK fought by themselves, the entire region of Azad Kashmir was liberated by our forefathers, the events are well documented by Western writers.
Tribals came much later and attacked the Valley directly, and later on came the regular army.
In actual fact the AJK militia had the greatest number of trained and armed men outside the regular army, 90,000 veterans of the Second World War. Many army writers talk of how greatly the army was bolstered by these ex British army vets.

The myths debunked are that tribals aided the liberation of Azad Kashmir, that never happened. The regular army aided in the liberation, not true, they stabilised the battle lines after the Indian army engaged in Srinagar onwards. 

Please read Christopher Snedden's renowned work "Kashmir the untold story".


Here are the details of the revolt by the Muslim AJK vets against Hari Singh. They numbered around 90,000. 

KASHMIR - THE UNTOLD STORY - Christopher Snedden - Google Books

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## WAJsal

@waz , could you make this thread a sticky? important part of our history, deserves as much audience as it can get. Thank you.

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## waz

WAJsal said:


> @waz , could you make this thread a sticky? important part of our history, deserves as much audience as it can get. Thank you.



Yes bro will do.

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## Shamain

SarthakGanguly said:


> The Hindus and Sikhs from west Punjab were settled first in Sialkot and then in Jammu. What do you expect to happen in a riot? Hindus take Gandhi's advise and mutely die in Muslim attacks? Sorry, in riots both sides kill. In Jammu it was the other way round, that's all. I am not defending the actions, but explaining them.


Shame on u sarthak ,ihadnt read the entire thread, tho not even yet but did come across this crass post of urz.
Itna jhoot likhtay huay kabhi tau sharam kar liya karo ap log.
Just cuz some of us purposefully stay silent on online forums doesnt mean u shud spread indian lies n propaganda. Thats y inever trust what u write on forum. U are so stupid and thick.

@Areesh thanks for defending .iam surprised how u knew abt these events.


@fakhre mirpur @engineer saad


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## Zibago

Shamain said:


> Shame on u sarthak ,ihadnt read the entire thread, tho not even yet but did come across this crass post of urz.
> Itna jhoot likhtay huay kabhi tau sharam kar liya karo ap log.
> Just cuz some of us purposefully stay silent on online forums doesnt mean u shud spread indian lies n propaganda. Thats y inever trust what u write on forum. U are so stupid and thick.
> 
> @Areesh thanks for defending .iam surprised how u knew abt these events.
> 
> 
> @fakhre mirpur @engineer saad


I know about the jammu riots, my mother side of family migrated from jammu
Genocide of Muslims, Jammu 1947 | Kashmir Media Service


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## Shamain

The state didnt have any sikhs or hindus moving in yet, who could have started any massacrre , it was the local forces and local hindus attacking. Kitnay jhootay insaan ho,. Kuch tau sharam kar liya karo Sarthakganguly

@syedali73 We pakistanis have no history. Cuz we never document or record our past, we are one loser nation. We never documented, researched 71 events as they were supposed to,....and then what happened? our entire 71 war history was written by indians ,bengalis ...not pakistanis.
Where is our narrative ,a detailed ,well researched, unbiased, fair narrative on 71 war. We had a murder of 3million bengalis stomped on our faces which we never did and some filthy so called pakistanis on this forum never get tired of writing abt it again n again as a crime committed by pakistani forces. (Wajsal dont give me link to that stupid thread of urs, its not what history is,i am talking abt proper history archiving and research conducted by reputed uni's history faculties much like oxford uni)

And we are expected to hang our heads in shame for something we perhaps arent guilty of.

Indians always manage to have things done their way,whether its snatching others land, writing own versions of history or this forum. We pakistanis are meant to lose. We always lose.


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## Zibago

Interviews of Dogra war Mujahideen



Shamain said:


> The state didnt have any sikhs or hindus moving in yet, who could have started any massacrre , it was the local forces and local hindus attacking. Kitnay jhootay insaan ho,. Kuch tau sharam kar liya karo Sarthakganguly
> 
> @syedali73 We pakistanis have no history. Cuz we never document or record our past, we are one loser nation. We never documented, researched 71 events as they were supposed to,....and then what happened? our entire 71 war history was written by indians ,bengalis ...not pakistanis.
> Where is our narrative ,a detailed ,well researched, unbiased, fair narrative on 71 war. We had a murder of 3million bengalis stomped on our faces which we never did and some filthy so called pakistanis on this forum never get tired of writing abt it again n again as a crime committed by pakistani forces. (Wajsal dont give me link to that stupid thread of urs, its not what history is,i am talking abt proper history archiving and research conducted by reputed uni's history faculties much like oxford uni)
> 
> And we are expected to hang our heads in shame for something we perhaps arent guilty of.
> 
> Indians always manage to have things done their way,whether its snatching others land, writing own versions of history or this forum. We pakistanis are meant to lose. We always lose.


When The India-Sponsored Mukti Bahini Slaughtered 1 Million Biharis ~ QUTAIBA PROTOCOLZ

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## Shamain

fakhre mirpur said:


> Interviews of Dogra war Mujahideen
> 
> 
> When The India-Sponsored Mukti Bahini Slaughtered 1 Million Biharis ~ QUTAIBA PROTOCOLZ


Well some family elder had told me once, some of the extended family members of one of our relative had gathered at his place for a family meet,not sure they were based on which side of the border ,pakistani jk or indian. Anyways, the riots hadnt started yet,but uprising was taking out its head. Anyways hindus out of their usual mischief had set their house on fire.

I wont write any further.
@engineer saad


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## Shamain

engineer saad said:


> SOS means Save Our Souls.
> At that time people use fires as a signal to friendly troops.


Ohoooo mujhay pata hai what is sos. Ohoo ap kya samajh rahay hain. Hindoon nay unkay ghar pay aag laga dee thee to kill innocent men ,women ,kids of the house.
Wahan koi riots nahi horahay thay etc

Lemme edit original post


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## Shamain

mufti said:


> Please write, let the world know the cruel face of hindus.


Haha ihad just posted in pakistani corner telling @engineer saad that mufti is an indian guy and reads every post of oura and here u come quoting me lolz


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## Shamain

mufti said:


> I was not looking for your post ..I just noticed this thread and instead of going from first page I went to last page and saw your comment. I replied on it. Well it is not so that I am following you. You give your 15 or 16 hrs to this forum whereas I hardly post 5 to 6 comments. Do you think I have so much time to follow you for 16 hrs ..I don't have spare time like you brother



Ofcourse udont follow me ,but surprisingly each time ipost somethin u have to show right then right there. Andu are right ispend too much time online and i have been trying to cut down on it


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## Shamain

mufti said:


> You can go through my posts and see how many time I have commented on your posts. I always post if I find something interesting. It is not so that I find what you did all day and then I comment on your posts. Just ask your friends who you tag quite often if they do feel the same because I have not interacted with them before. I cannot do much if you think so. If I find something good or bad I ask people. I think it is in my nature. Just out of curiosity I ask them and trust me I cannot change it. I am not here to harm anyone or a stalker so please don't think I am following you because it is not intentional.


Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Lets not derail the thread, and going thru others post history is a pivilige that i dont give every poster. So imay not check urs unless really necessary.
Oh and lets derail any further .


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## Jungibaaz

Shamain said:


> Haha ihad just posted in pakistani corner telling @engineer saad that mufti is an indian guy and reads every post of oura and here u come quoting me lolz



Yes, you were right. 

Same person as OP of this thread.

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## Burhan Wani

@Jungibaaz Wow you precisely detected him

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## Jungibaaz

engineer saad said:


> @Jungibaaz Wow you precisely detected him



I found him yesterday, but @Shamain was the one to tell me to check his ID against this one, and they match.

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## Shamain

Jungibaaz said:


> I found him yesterday, but @Shamain was the one to tell me to check his ID against this one, and they match.


Iknew since day 1 he is the same guy. But then i didnt report ,i do so many times koi sunta hee nahi hai meri baat. But now it was getting on my nerves.

This mufti joined the day rauf was banned and he was constantly keeping his compusre so naturally when rauf acted mad it was clear he went on perma ban suicide trolling cuz he knew he has another id to use.
But imainly figured out cuz he was stalking all of us ajk posters.

Anyways, plz put these losers on perma ban. And thanks for help.

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## Burhan Wani

Jungibaaz said:


> I found him yesterday, but @Shamain was the one to tell me to check his ID against this one, and they match.


You mean Rauf Lala and Mufti were same users?


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## Jungibaaz

engineer saad said:


> You mean Rauf Lala and Mufti were same users?



Yes sir, they were, when I banned rauf I did a background check and mufti matched but he was in pink already, I just failed to check and see whether he was perma banned or not. On Shamain's request I had another look, and he was only banned for a month, now both are gone for a very long time. 



Shamain said:


> Iknew since day 1 he is the same guy. But then i didnt report ,i do so many times koi sunta hee nahi hai meri baat. But now it was getting on my nerves.
> 
> This mufti joined the day rauf was banned and he was constantly keeping his compusre so naturally when rauf acted mad it was clear he went on perma ban suicide trolling cuz he knew he has another id to use.
> But imainly figured out cuz he was stalking all of us ajk posters.
> 
> Anyways, plz put these losers on perma ban. And thanks for help.



It happens often, Indians pretending to be Pakistanis, and sometimes the other way around. In fact, in one instance, I recall being tagged by some members to intervene in a thread where Pakistani members were insulting each other on ethnic lines, how did it start? Indian members with Pak flags flamebait, Pak members took the bait and started throwing despicable sectarian rubbish against their fellow pak members. Anyway, I have a grudge against anyone who does that, so thanks for pointing another one out.

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## bananarepublic

SarthakGanguly said:


> Not possible. The princely states were all corrupt. The Islamists, though inhuman, had a real motivation...to free Muslim lands from non Muslim control. Islamists have similar goals to this day.



HEY HEY !! we are not corrupt an inhuman It should be noted that these princely states in Gilgit-Baltistan have the most peace loving people in Pakistan and they also have the highest literacy rate in Pakistan

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## WAJsal

*KHYBER KHAN- THE CONQUEROR OF SKARDU*



The next milestone in Khyber Khan&#8217;s life as a Air warrior came in the shape of the unforgettable and daring exploit of transporting a mortar gun in the rear seat of a
T-6 Harvard aircraft to Gilgit, Which was instrumental in the capture of Skardu. Soon after independence on October 26th, 1947 the Hindu Maharaja of Kashmir declared accession of the Muslim majority state to India, in complete disregard of the principle enunciate in the document concerning partition. He invited Indian Military help and on October 27, Indian forces moved into the state, Thus exposing a pre-conceived plan for the occupation of Kashmir. No sooner did the news of the Maharaja&#8217;s accession spread that the people of Poonch and Mirpure district formed the Azad Kashmir Government at Muzaffarabad.
During the first Indo-Pak was of 1948, forward elements of Azad Kashmir forces had by-passed Skardu in pursuit of the Indian units fleeing south towards Kashmir. However a Dogra battalion entrenched within kharphocho Fort posed a serious threat in the rear of the advancing column and had to be removed in order to secure the lines of communication. Due to the location of the fort, a direst frontal assault was deemed extremely hazardous and the Azad Kashmir forces did not posses any suitable weapon with which to engage the entrenched Dogras. There as no artillery support and air strike was not advisable. Lest it led to an all-out war against the numerically far superior RIAF. It was finally decided that a mortar gun capable of firing a high trajectory projectile could possibly be the only weapon that could effectively target the fort. Thus efforts were commenced to make one available to the Azad Kashmir forces. Till the early 1950s, the only access to this part of the country was an unreliable mule track, which remained blocked for most of the year due to land slides and snow. The present runway at Gilgit and Skardu had not been built. The first 2 attempts to deliver a mortar gun having failed, It was decided to airlift one into Gilgit. The honor of being picked up for this vital mission went to Flt Lt Khyber Khan who was them commanding the Advanced Flying School at Risalpur. He was aware that the mission was very dangerous and hazardous because the enemy was on RED Alert and he had to be extra cautious. In order to accommodate the unwieldy barrel of the mortar cannon the rear canopy of the T-6G Harvard was removed and the weapon was strapped to the seat. The rear cockpit instrument panel was also removed to make more space and its barrel was placed in a tilted position in a manner that it lay only a few inches behind the head of the pilot.
Flight Lieutenant Khyber Khan took off from Risalpur in the Peshawar Valley in the afternoon of April 14th, 1948. Even at 12 thousand feet the flight was bumpy, and the farther he flew the higher the mountains rose, crowding him on both sides in this narrowing valley below. Halfway the sky was getting darker and T-6 could not climb over such a mountains, suddenly the aircraft jolted severely causing the pilot some alarm, Survival was at stake in case of engine failure or an intensive downdraft at this low 
height. And what id the barrel got loose? Instinctively Khyber silently prayed and by the Grace of God thing started to look better the weather got good, but this relief was short lived because moments later he saw 2 objects high above Chilas ahead of him. These had to be Indian Tempest fighting patrolling west of Nanga Parbat. The T-6G swooped down to water level till a turn in the river shielded it from enemy&#8217;s view. Still keeping low and watchful for any lurking intruders above, He turned west towards the Gilgit as he approached the destination, Clouds began to gather again and he realized it would be soon too dark and better land soon. The Gilgit scouts had fire as a signal for him and a rugged runway was made which was sandy and a 3 pointer landing was made the plane just stopped close to the mountain base.
The Militia and the Scouts has been waiting anxiously for this special mission. They received the aircraft with jubilation and loud cheers of Allah - o- Akbar under the pilot&#8217;s supervision the mortar was quickly taken out and placed near a waiting camel. The men them gathered large stones and made a wall around the plane and camouflaged it from the top. While Khyber Khan was provided the Scouts commandant&#8217;s own Charger Horse to take him to the camp, a full platoon was decided to mount guard for the night at the field. Occasionally a sentry would stand looking intently at the T-6G and then smile affectionately patting its wings.
Indian fighter came the next morning to strafe the side, but the pilot was by then speeding home in hid T-6G. And in the mounted column a Bactrian camel plodded along the bank of the Indus river carring the heavy mortar cannon over a rocky track towards distant Sakdu, to the vicinity of the enemy help Kharphocho Fort. 3 days later the mortar fired thrice and the Dogras hastily raised the white flag of surrender over the rampart of Kharphocho, Skardu had fallen. Flt Lt Khyber khan got the message from the commandant of the liberation forces telling him that they *conquered Skardu*









Source: History of Pakistan Air Force

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## Anchan

Gilgit Baltistan and kashmir dispute is a complex dispute. As i am new here. I will start threads to teach u all who even don't know what happened in Gilgit Baltistan in 1947 and why GB is seprated from Azad kashmir, and why Pakistan can't make GB a province till end of kashmir dispute? and Why GB is the most backward and undeveloped than Azad kashmir and Pakistan. Guyz wait I will teach u guyz the real history . Yess I am from Gilgit Baltistan

Guyz plz get some knowledge about Gilgit Baltistan then discuss. Read on these links:
Constitutional Satus of Gilgit Baltistan By Afzal Shigri Former IG SINDH http://www.skardu.pk/constitutional-status-of-gilgit-baltistan/


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## WAJsal

Anchan said:


> Gilgit Baltistan and kashmir dispute is a complex dispute. As i am new here. I will start threads to teach u all who even don't know what happened in Gilgit Baltistan in 1947 and why GB is seprated from Azad kashmir, and why Pakistan can't make GB a province till end of kashmir dispute? and Why GB is the most backward and undeveloped than Azad kashmir and Pakistan. Guyz wait I will teach u guyz the real history . Yess I am from Gilgit Baltistan


Which area in Gilgit? and backward in terms of what exactly?


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## Talwar e Pakistan

We could've gained much more territory - if our Commander in Chief who was British hadn't held us down.



Anchan said:


> Gilgit Baltistan and kashmir dispute is a complex dispute. As i am new here. I will start threads to teach u all who even don't know what happened in Gilgit Baltistan in 1947 and why GB is seprated from Azad kashmir, and why Pakistan can't make GB a province till end of kashmir dispute? and Why GB is the most backward and undeveloped than Azad kashmir and Pakistan. Guyz wait I will teach u guyz the real history . Yess I am from Gilgit Baltistan
> 
> Guyz plz get some knowledge about Gilgit Baltistan then discuss. Read on these links:
> Constitutional Satus of Gilgit Baltistan By Afzal Shigri Former IG SINDH http://www.skardu.pk/constitutional-status-of-gilgit-baltistan/


GB is kinda autonomous and just like Azad Kashmir - Pakistan cant do much development in the area; without fully taking control.


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## Anchan

Hav


Talwar e Pakistan said:


> We could've gained much more territory - if our Commander in Chief who was British hadn't held us down.
> 
> 
> GB is kinda autonomous and just like Azad Kashmir - Pakistan cant do much development in the area; without fully taking control.


have u read the article in the given link? If not then first read full article by Former IG Sindh Afzal Shigri . Then I will tell u . And for your info AJK is more autonomous than GB. They have their own flag own PM ,president and Constitution and State Subject Rule.
4 provinces and their assembles are autonomous they can make laws without federal govt interference. But in case of GB and AJK there are GB and AJK council in Islamabad which make policies for GB and AJK. GB Assembly is a dummy assembly the CM GB can't initiate mega projects. Actually Kashmir affairs and GB is the God father of Both GB and AJK.

a


Anchan said:


> Hav
> 
> have u read the article in the given link? If not then first read full article by Former IG Sindh Afzal Shigri . Then I will tell u . And for your info AJK is more autonomous than GB. They have their own flag own PM ,president and Constitution and State Subject Rule.
> 4 provinces and their assembles are autonomous they can make laws without federal govt interference. But in case of GB and AJK there are GB and AJK council in Islamabad which make policies for GB and AJK. GB Assembly is a dummy assembly the CM GB can't initiate mega projects. Actually Kashmir affairs and GB is the God father of Both GB and AJK.


and One more thing There was no involement of Pakistani army in freedom of GB . GB was totally liberated by locals and Gilgit scouts. The libeartion force was headed by Col Mirza Hassan Khan of Gilgit and Maj Ahsan from Gilgit Baltistan.



WAJsal said:


> Which area in Gilgit? and backward in terms of what exactly?


Baltistan region and backwardness in terms of Educational institutions, hospitals, infrastructure development and industries. How many Engineering universities and medical colleges in GB? Govt hospitals have lack of facilities. Look at Gilgit and Skardu cities and compare these two importnat cities with AJK cities and so on.......... There are 5 unis in AJK 3 Medical college?


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## WAJsal

Anchan said:


> Baltistan region and backwardness in terms of Educational institutions, hospitals, infrastructure development and industries. How many Engineering universities and medical colleges in GB? Govt hospitals have lack of facilities. Look at Gilgit and Skardu cities and compare these two importnat cities with AJK cities and so on.......... There are 5 unis in AJK 3 Medical college?


Which area in Gilgit are you from? i am from Yasin, can you speak Khowar, Shina, anything? According to your link:





While the rest of Pakistan is quite far behind GB in literacy rate. And some areas like Hunza and others have almost a 100% literacy rate. Secondly, the government has indeed failed to do much in the region, though local NGO's have done quite well. Over time infrastructure will improve. 


And Pakistan is changing the status of Gilgit Baltistan, it will get more autonomy and constitutional status, along with NA seats. Things will only improve and remain on topic please. 
Pakistan to upgrade the constitutional status of its northern Gilgit-Baltistan region

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## Anchan

u 


WAJsal said:


> Which area in Gilgit are you from? i am from Yasin, can you speak Khowar, Shina, anything? According to your link:
> View attachment 295305
> 
> 
> While the rest of Pakistan is quite far behind GB in literacy rate. And some areas like Hunza and others have almost a 100% literacy rate. Secondly, the government has indeed failed to do much in the region, though local NGO's have done quite well. Over time infrastructure will improve.
> 
> 
> And Pakistan is changing the status of Gilgit Baltistan, it will get more autonomy and constitutional status, along with NA seats. Things will only improve and remain on topic please.
> Pakistan to upgrade the constitutional status of its northern Gilgit-Baltistan region


We should thanks to NGO's like AKRSP . The literacy rate is not an outcome of Pakistani govt effort. So what? We have struggled our own. Most people prefer to study in Private schools and the literacy rate of GB increased due to NGO's and Private schools. And Pakistan can't change GB status till the end of Kashmir conflict. Better if Pakistan give full autonomy to GB Like Hongkong in China this will boost the development of GB in within 5 years . GB should be part of Pakistan But Pakistan should not control GB like a colony now pak govt trying to impose tax in an unconstitutional part of pak. which is against universal law "No Taxation Without Representation" 
As I mentioned I am from Baltistan region Balti.

I


Anchan said:


> u
> 
> We should thanks to NGO's like AKRSP . The literacy rate is not an outcome of Pakistani govt effort. So what? We have struggled our own. Most people prefer to study in Private schools and the literacy rate of GB increased due to NGO's and Private schools. And Pakistan can't change GB status till the end of Kashmir conflict. Better if Pakistan give full autonomy to GB Like Hongkong in China this will boost the development of GB in within 5 years . GB should be part of Pakistan But Pakistan should not control GB like a colony now pak govt trying to impose tax in an unconstitutional part of pak. which is against universal law "No Taxation Without Representation"
> As I mentioned I am from Baltistan region Balti.


 Literacy Ranking in Pakistan 
1.ISB
2. AJK
3. Punjab 
4. GB
So ?


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## WAJsal

Anchan said:


> u
> 
> We should thanks to NGO's like AKRSP . The literacy rate is not an outcome of Pakistani govt effort. So what? We have struggled our own. Most people prefer to study in Private schools and the literacy rate of GB increased due to NGO's and Private schools. And Pakistan can't change GB status till the end of Kashmir conflict. Better if Pakistan give full autonomy to GB Like Hongkong in China this will boost the development of GB in within 5 years . GB should be part of Pakistan But Pakistan should not control GB like a colony now pak govt trying to impose tax in an unconstitutional part of pak. which is against universal law "No Taxation Without Representation"
> As I mentioned I am from Baltistan region Balti.
> 
> I
> 
> Literacy Ranking in Pakistan
> 1.ISB
> 2. AJK
> 3. Punjab
> 4. GB
> So ?


Gilgit is getting a different status whether you like it or not. GB will get constitutional status, source:
Pakistan to upgrade the constitutional status of its northern Gilgit-Baltistan region
Will get seats in NA too. 
GB is doing better than Punjab. Stop going off topic, remain on topic.

Rankings reveal state of education in Pakistan - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

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## Anchan

Literacy Ranking in Pakistan
1.ISB
2. AJK
3. Punjab
4. GB
So ?[/QUOTE]
GB is doing better than Punjab ? Haha compare lahore with Gilgit
more than 10 universities in lahore only and in whole GB a lonley university which ranked 58 KIU. We are struggling in every field that is a fact but what Govt of Pakistan doing for us ? Can we build roads, univesities, mediacl colleges, hospitals ? Then what is the purpose of part of Pakistan if all things have to do with our own then why there is a need of pakistan here. Only stealing money and spending on Lahore metro, ornage line universities in Punjab an dso on . I love Pakistan should treat equally


We should thanks to NGO's like AKRSP . The literacy rate is not an outcome of Pakistani govt effort. So what? We have struggled our own. Most people prefer to study in Private schools and the literacy rate of GB increased due to NGO's and Private schools. And Pakistan can't change GB status till the end of Kashmir conflict. Better if Pakistan give full autonomy to GB Like Hongkong in China this will boost the development of GB in within 5 years . GB should be part of Pakistan But Pakistan should not control GB like a colony now pak govt trying to impose tax in an unconstitutional part of pak. which is against universal law "No Taxation Without Representation"
As I mentioned I am from Baltistan region Balti.

I

Literacy Ranking in Pakistan
1.ISB
2. AJK
3. Punjab
4. GB
So ?[/QUOTE]
GB is doing better than Punjab ? Haha compare lahore with Gilgit 
more than 10 universities in lahore only and in whole GB a lonley university which ranked 58 KIU. We are struggling in every field that is a fact but what Govt of Pakistan doing for us ? Can we build roads, univesities, mediacl colleges, hospitals ? Then what is the purpose of part of Pakistan if all things have to do with our own then why there is a need of pakistan here. Only stealing money and spending on Lahore metro, ornage line universities in Punjab an dso on . I love Pakistan should treat equally 


Anchan said:


> u
> 
> We should thanks to NGO's like AKRSP . The literacy rate is not an outcome of Pakistani govt effort. So what? We have struggled our own. Most people prefer to study in Private schools and the literacy rate of GB increased due to NGO's and Private schools. And Pakistan can't change GB status till the end of Kashmir conflict. Better if Pakistan give full autonomy to GB Like Hongkong in China this will boost the development of GB in within 5 years . GB should be part of Pakistan But Pakistan should not control GB like a colony now pak govt trying to impose tax in an unconstitutional part of pak. which is against universal law "No Taxation Without Representation"
> As I mentioned I am from Baltistan region Balti.
> 
> I
> 
> Literacy Ranking in Pakistan
> 1.ISB
> 2. AJK
> 3. Punjab
> 4. GB
> So ?


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## Apprentice

Pakistan should have a referendum in Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan. Since the majority will vote for Pakistan in both regions, Pakistan should turn the areas into a single fifth province of Pakistan.


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## WAJsal

*15. Lease of Gilgit Wizarat-1935. Refer Annex C.*
Owing to growing British interests and Great Game factor (fear of Russian aggression), British established Gilgit Agency in 1889, to deal the external affairs with the States. The Agency remained in the control of the British; however, the civil administration of Gilgit Wazarat was run by State of Kashmir. This peculiar arrangement created a dual control which was worrying the British Political Agent here. It was to meet this difficulty that British affected the lease deal with Maharaja of Kashmir. Maharaja was given only suzerain status over local rulers but the territory was never recognized as
Maharaja‟s territory. After the lease the British Political Agent became the local head of civil, military and judicial powers and Kashmir State’s interference was restricted to obtaining consensus in case of succession of local rulers or hoisting of State’s flags at the official Headquarters of army and exploration of minerals rights were reserved with Maharaja of
Kashmir. The lease was enforced for a period of 60 years. It was a fulfillment of their aims that Corps of Gilgit Scouts was raised as a local force of levies in 1889 by Col Durand.
*16. The End of British Rule*. 
At the end of World War II, the victorious imperial powers were not in a position to continue their rule over colonies as the people had been yearning to free themselves from the reigns of imperial rules1 9. Gilgit-Baltistan was a small area not much known, when seen in the overall context of partition plan. Should the territory be formally handed over to chieftains or to Maharaja was a question, as formally the area was under the suzerainty of State of Jammu and Kashmir, although the territory fell outside the boundaries of the State, except the leased area of 1935 Agreement. The officials forgot that the agreement was only for Gilgit Wazarat and not for the other parts of the Agency. Mountbatten never seems to have consulted Mr. Jinnah or Liaqat Ali Khan on the question, and wanted to end the lease and handover entire area to Maharaja of Kashmir. Finally on first August 1947, Gilgit Agency was handed over to Maharaja of Kashmir, in a ceremony and Brigadier Ghansara Singhformally assumed the responsibilities as Governor of Gilgit Wazarat.

*17. War of Gilgit-Baltistan Liberation.*
Gilgit-Baltistan freedom struggle was an independent affair, though influenced by the currents in South Asia but fought separately by its own people and military men posted there. The Muslim officers of Kashmir State Forces played a leading role, yet the struggle was not a part of Kashmir campaign. The State Army Officers were certainly motivated by an overall Muslim demand in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, yet because of local geographic factor, their activity was limited to Northern Areas. Gilgit was a frontier district, just handed over by the British and Maharaja had to re-establish the authority both civil and military, in this part. The turning of old age suzerainty into real permanent power over the local Rulers and people after the lapse of British sovereignty was a big issue. The Maharaja believed that loyalty of local Rulers to him would guarantee his authority there. Hence he invited Mirs of Hunza, Nagar and Puniyal to Srinagar and they apparently gave their diplomatic loyalty. However, according to Major Brown, Mir of Hunza and Nagar had shown their inability to prove their loyalty to Maharaja, against the wishes of the public. Although there was no political party and political movement in Gilgit-Baltistan in 1947, little doubt existed about public sentiments in favour of Pakistan. Gilgit Scouts, mostly comprising the local tribes was the main force in Gilgit under command of Major Brown, while the 6th Battalion of Jammu and Kashmir Rifles (mix of Muslims and Sikhs), and was at Bunji. Prior to independence, the Scouts were paid by the British Raj, however on the eve of the return of the Agency, rumor spread that because of the loyalty issues the Scouts may be disband. Moreover, there was a difference between pay and allowances and concession between troops of Maharaja Forces and Gigit Scouts. Brigadier Ghansara Singh on assumption of the appointment wished to obtain the oath of loyalty from Gilgit Scouts, who refused to do so before the fulfillment of their
demands of bringing the forces at par with the State Forces.
18. Meanwhile underground planning for coup détat against Maharaja Forces was under way, in case Maharaja decided to join India. The plan in rough shape was to arrest the Governor (Brigadier Ghansara Singh) and his administrators in Gilgit by Gilgit Scouts and wipe out Sikh troops of 6 Jammu and Kashmir Rifles stationed at Bunji, confiscate weapons and ammunition from the State Forces and seek help from leaders in Pakistan. According to plan, a squad of Gilgit Scouts besieged Brigadier Ghansara Singh at his residence on the night of 31 October / 1 November 1947 and arrested him. The reinforcement for Gilgit from Bunji and reinforcement for Bunji from Srinagar through Astor was effectively checked by establishing blocking positions on the bridge on River Indus and Astor River. The Dogra and Sikh troops of 6 Jammu and Kashmir Rifles deserted Bunji camp on 3rd November 1947 and the garrison with heavy arms and ammunition fell without firing a single shot. This was followed by pursuit and consolidation phase. The liberation force was organized in three groups launched a three pronged advance as under.
(i) Tiger Force under Colonel Mirza Hassan advanced along axis Bunji - Astor - Zojila Pass.
(ii) (ii) Eskimo Force under Captain Muhammad Shah Khan moved along axis Bunji – Deosai
- Burzil-Dras-Kargil
(iii) (iii) Ibex Force under Colonel Ehsan Ali advanced along up Stream of Indus River in Skardu Valley.

19. These forces fought courageously despite all the odds of terrain, weather and organizational deficiencies and were able to liberate the area up to line Zojila - Dras-Kargil - Leh, by the end of first quarter of 1948. However, Zojila, Dras, Kargil and Leh, but were recaptured by Indian forces through counter offensive by overwhelming forces. It is worth mentioning here that according to Subedar Major Babar Khan, he sent telegrams to Muslim leaders of Pakistan
soon after 14th August but no reply was received.

*20. Establishment of Provisional Government. *
Between 1st and 3rd November 1947, a Provisional Government was formed with Raja Shah Rais Khan as President of the Provisional Government, Colonel Mirza Hasan Khan as the Head of Military Affairs and Leader of Revolutionary Movement, Captain Durrani Deputy Leader, Lieutenant Ghulam Haider Political Agent, Subedar Major Babar Khan Quarter Master, Raja Sultan Hameed as Police Chief and Major Brown as advisor. A wireless message was sent to the government of Pakistan to send a civil administrator and take over the administrative control.

*21. Governance in Post-Independence Era.*
On the invitation of Provisional Government, Sardar Alam Khan, the designated representative of Government of Pakistan landed in Gilgit on 16th November 1947 and assumed the appointment of Political Agent. Later, in pursuance to
an order of Governor General, dated 6th April 1948, the Political Resident in North West Frontier Province, based in Peshawar, was directed to act as Agent to Governor General for Gilgit Agency, including Princely States. Northern Areas were thus placed under the administrative control of then North West Frontier Province. U nited Nations Resolution. On 1st January 1948, India formally referred the case of Pakistan’s aggression in Kashmir to United Nations Security Council (UNSC) under article 35 of United Nations Charter. Consequently, on 20th January 1948, a three member delegation visited scene of fighting.

22. On 21 January 1948, United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP), composed of five members was established, with following mandate :-
a. Holding of immediate cease fire by both India and Pakistan.
b. Withdrawal of all tribesmen and Pakistanis.
c. Reduction of forces level by India on restoration of normalcy.
d. The administration of plebiscite by India.

23. Karachi Agreement. Refer Annex D. In March 1949, an agreement was signed by Mr. Mushtaque Ahmad Gormani, Minister without Portfolio Governments of Pakistan, Sardar Muhammad Ibrahim Khan the President of Azad Jammu and Kashmir and Choudhry Ghulam Abbas head of All Jammu and Kashmir Muslim Conference, in which, matters relating to
Kashmir affairs were broadly distributed as under:-

 M atters in Purview of Government of Pakistan. Matters included, defense, foreign affairs, dealing with United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan, relief and rehabilitation of refugees and governance affairs / administrative control of Gilgit-Baltistan. This agreement further enhanced the legitimacy of control ofGilgit-Baltistan by Government of Pakistan.
 M atters in Purview of Government of Azad Jammu and Kashmir. Responsible for internal management and administration of Azad Jammu and Kashmir and rendering advice to Government of Pakistan about United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan.
24. Transfer to Ministry of Kashmir Affairs. In 1950, the control of Northern Areas was transferred from North West Frontiers Province, to Ministry of Kashmir Affairs through appointment of a Political Resident. This arrangement continued till 1952 when the Joint Secretary Kashmir Affairs was entrusted with the additional charge of the post of Resident of Northern Areas.


@Joe Shearer ,@Gufi ,@saiyan0321 ,@Kambojaric ,@krash ....

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## ahsanhaider

Full Travel documentary of Gilgit Baltistan from Gilgit to Khunjerab!
35 minutes of exclusive meeting with people of GB


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## Israr211

Such an informative post. I hope the people of Gilgit & Baltistan secure complete Pakistani citizenship. and In Sha Allah they will soon


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## ghazi52

*GILGIT & KASHMIR 1947*

*A PARTIAL VICTORY*

November 1, 1947 is the day when Gilgit, Hunza and Baltistan accede to Pakistan.

Astore, Gilgit, Hunza and Nagar are part of territories conquered by the Dogra Maharajas. Their grip is tenuous and in 1889 the British create the Gilgit Agency as a means of turning the region into a buffer against the Russians. Then in 1935, the British lease the Gilgit Agency for a period of sixty years from Maharaja Hari Singh.

In 1947, Major William Brown, the Assistant Political Agent in Chilas, is informed that Lord Mountbatten has ordered that the 1935 lease of the Gilgit Agency (it still has 49 years to run) be terminated. Gilgit Agency, despite its 99% Muslim population, is to be allotted to the rule of Maharaja Hari Singh.

Meanwhile, stories of communal violence between Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in the Punjab reach Gilgit, inflaming passions there. On October 26, 1947, the Maharaja signs the Instrument of Accession and joins India. (The signed document has never been seen.)

Sensing the discontent, Major Brown mutinies on November 1, 1947. He overthrows the governor, establishes a provisional government in Gilgit and telegraphs the chief minister of the NWFP asking Pakistan to take over. According to the leading historian Ahmed Hasan Dani, despite the lack of public participation in the rebellion, pro-Pakistan sentiments are strong amongst civilians.





Armed Pakhtoon tribesmen wait on a road between Peshawar and Rawalpindi for their leader Bacha Gul of the Mohmand tribe. — Excerpted with permission from Witness to Life and Freedom, Roli Books, Delhi


Upon hearing of Maharaja Hari Singh’s accession to India, these tribesmen wait for Bacha Gul to lead them into battle in Kashmir. They reach the outskirts of Srinagar before they are pushed back to the upper reaches of what constitutes today’s Azad Kashmir.

Resistance in Poonch starts over issues related to taxation, but soon turns into an armed uprising when a public meeting is fired upon by Kashmir state forces. Two days later, the chief minister of the NWFP organises a guerrilla force to attack the Maharaja’s forces in the Dheer Kot camp. According to Australian historian Christopher Snedden, it is the Muslims in the Poonch region of Kashmir who instigate the uprising and not Pakhtoon tribesmen invading from Pakistan, as India consistently maintains.

India’s case on Kashmir is built upon a version of events that asserts that India’s military intervention is in response to a tribal invasion supported by Pakistan. On January 1, 1948, India takes the issue to the UN Security Council. The Security Council pass a resolution calling for Pakistan to withdraw from Jammu and Kashmir and for India to reduce its forces to a minimum level, following which a plebiscite is to be held to ascertain the people’s wishes.

Dispute erupts over the implementation mechanism because of which the Kashmir problem remains unresolved to this day.


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## Mohammad Ilyas

It is shortly described as the Gilgit Scouts under the command of English Major liberated and occupied Gilgit and Baltistan. It is not mentioned that the main fort of Skardu Kharfuchu Fort was garrisoned with a Sikh force that was for upto a month put under a siege by 400 strong state forces of Chitral as aide in Jihad. The force then made an assault at night and occupied the fort. People in favour of joining Kashmir were put to death by that force, thus upon coming back after the success, the Chitral state commander of that force State-Col Muta ul Mulk was arrested by Pakistan government for the war-crime.


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## ghazi52

*Between the Oxus and the Indus *
*Reginald Charles Francis Schomberg*


Summary

Written by Colonel R. C. F. Schomberg and published in 1935, _Between the Oxus and the Indus_ is an account based on several travels in the Gilgit region made by the author during a period of eight years. The territory between the Oxus River and the Indus River, called the Gilgit Agency, was at the time under British rule and administered by officials appointed by the Maharaja of Kashmir. A map of the area can be found in the appendix noted above.

Schomberg gives a general overview of the whole of the Gilgit district as regards both geography and people. He pays attention to local traditions and offers detailed accounts of folklore, marriage customs, heritage laws, as well as annual festivals and ceremonies.

Comprehensive historical accounts of the two states of Hunza and Nagir are presented including the origin of these states and the succession of Mirs, Khans and Wazirs. Comparing the State of Hunza with the State of Nagir, Schomberg clearly favors Hunza, which he often describes in greater detail and with more positive comments than Nagir. The Hunza-Nagir war in 1891 is given due attention because of to its decisive role in the formation of the Gilgit Agency, whereby Hunza and Nagir avoided the risk of becoming a part of Russian Asia. The history of Gilgit, Yasin, Punyal and Ishkoman is elaborated further in three appendices at the end of the volume.

.

Detailed account

Passing through the valley of the Gilgit River and leaving Kashmir territory, Schomberg and his traveling companions enter Punyal, a state of the Gilgit Agency, where they are received by the Raja of Punyal, Anwar Khan. Carrying on to the district of Kuh, they are shown ancient stones that according to a legend used to be dragons pestering the town for generations until a great man cast a spell on them and turned them into stones. At the village of Darkot, the Governor of Yasin, Raja Abdur Rahman Khan becomes their host. Together they watch a performance with men twirling like dervishes accompanied by singing, first in Persian and Chitrali, and later in the local language, Burushashki.

Passing through the Thui valley, Schomberg and his team continue to the State of Ishkoman, where they meet the son of the Raja of Ishkoman, Mir Ahmed Khan. At the capital of Nagir, they are acquainted with Shah Sikandar Khan, Mir of Nagir, who is said to be the descendent of Alexander the Great. The author notes that the Mir’s profile is just like the profile on a Greek coin. A photograph of Shah Sikandar Khan in profile can be found next to page 106. Schomberg meets the Mir of Hunza, Mahomed Nazim Khan on several occasions and describes him as “the outstanding personality of the Gilgit Agency” (p.114). A photograph of the Mir of Hunza can be found next to page 114.

.

Comments

Besides personal accounts of environments and experiences, Schomberg writes about the thoughts and feelings of his servants, people they encounter and other temporary travel companions. On several of his travels Schomberg was accompanied by two men from Hunza, Daulat Shah and Abdulla Beg, and two men from Kashmir, Aziza Rathar and Abdulla Rathar, the latter of whom was renamed Subhana, “a fashionable Kashmiri name” (p. 25), since they already had one Abdulla on the crew. Close-up photographs of these men looking straight into the camera can be found after page 26. Schomberg’s tone in representing the feelings of others in both writing and photography, gives us an indication of his willingness to understand the other, within the parameters of his own limits. Many other comments about the people of the region can be unsympathetic and degrading, such as the following about the people of Ishkoman: “The more I saw of the inhabitants of Ishkoman, the more was I struck by their degeneracy; they were poor in physique and lacking in brains; a strange type of mountaineer!” (p. 79).

.http://www.jarringcollection.se/travel/between-the-oxus-and-the-indus/


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## ghazi52

A group of musicians in Hunza photographed by Col Schomberg during his 1935-36 visit. The photograph was published then in a book called "Between The Oxus and The Indus". 












It shows the area between the Oxus River (also known as the Amu-Darya) in Afghanistan, and the Indus River in Kohistan, a territory called the Gilgit Agency, which was at the time under British rule and administered by officials appointed by the Maharaja of Kashmir. The map is a complement to the geographical and historical accounts of the Gilgit Agency offered by the author after several journeys in the region during a period of eight years. It is a detailed map with cities and towns marked out along rivers and topographical data about mountains. To the south one can see the Tangir and Darel valleys and the Chilas district, to the west the state of Chitral, and to the east the states of Hunza and Punyal as well as the cities of Gilgit and Baltit and the Karakoram mountains. In the center of the map there are the states of Ghizr, Ishkoman and Kuh and the city of Yasin.

You can download the book at this link: 
http://www.jarringcollection.se/Library/Travel/TRV020/TRV020s120.pdf


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## Darwin

Very interesting. Had no idea about the history of GB, but the excerpts above, especially about major brown, reinforce my view that the British were quite favourably disposed towards Pakistan and detested Indians. Which is understandable since gandhi and nehru spent 20 years each in brit prisons during the independence struggle while jinnah was more of a pucca man, who preffered courts rather than prison. I believe he didn't spend a day in prison. And Indians were fighting for independence while pakistanis were fighting for separation.
The brits have still not got over being kicked out by the Indians


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## PakSarzameen5823

Darwin said:


> my view that the British were quite favourably disposed towards Pakistan and detested Indians.



They weren't. They did things to undermine both sides. 



Darwin said:


> And Indians were fighting for independence while pakistanis were fighting for separation.



There is no difference between the two. We just didn't want to be lumped in with the rest of you.


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## Darwin

PakSarzameen5823 said:


> They weren't. They did things to undermine both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no difference between the two. We just didn't want to be lumped in with the rest of you.


Their is a difference. For eg in 1857 the Sikhs sided with the British as they didn't want to again be under a mughal emperor. To this date the brits have a soft corner for Sikhs and they receive positive press. This action of the Sikhs has a parallel with the Pakistan movement with a Muslim majority not comfortable under a Hindu dominated independent nation. So if you read your own historical books some Muslims didn't even want to separate from the brits. Separation from Hindus was more imp for them than independence.


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## PakSarzameen5823

Darwin said:


> Their is a difference.



No there isn't. We had a different order of priorities, but our struggle wasn't any less than yours. We just went about it in a more professional manner, and as a result achieved our objectives with much less pain. That's called being smart. 



Darwin said:


> Separation from Hindus was more imp for them than independence.



Of course, ultimately, so long as they gave us enough autonomy to act on our own accord we wouldn't mind, so long as we didn't have to be a part of the same country as Indians. I have no qualm in admitting we liked them more than you, and still do.


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## ghazi52

*Independence Day of Gilgit-Baltistan*



























Chief Minister Gilgit-Baltistan Hafiz Hafeez ur Rehman addressing during a function to mark the Independence Day of Gilgit-Baltistan at Chinar Bagh.

Governor Gilgit-Baltistan Raja Jalal Hussain Maqpoon and Chief Minister Gilgit-Baltistan Hafiz Hafeez ur Rehman in a group photo with freedom fighters during a function to mark the Independence Day of Gilgit-Baltistan at Chinar Bagh.

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## ghazi52

Mir of Hunza, C. I. E.; Rajah C. I. E. of Nagar
1903

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## arjunk

The Great One said:


> Yes, Once Article 370 is revoked. They shall enjoy the fruits of India's growth
> Indian economy to grow at 8.1% in 2015-16: UN report
> 
> Meanwhile in Pakistan
> Pakistan to see 4.1% growth this year, well below target



Indian logic: Rape and torture to men, women, and children = fruits of India's growth.

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## ghazi52

[URL='https://twitter.com/MasudAKhan6']Brigadier Masud Ahmad Khan - Retd
@MasudAKhan6[/URL]

On 1 Nov 1947 Dogra flag was pulled down and Pakistani flag was raised. The people of GB are completely loyal to Pakistan and willing to lay their lives for country. They always say " we are Pakistani first, Pakistani last and always. " The identity of people of GB is Pakistan .




10:47 AM · May 4, 2020·

Brigadier Masud Ahmad Khan - Retd

@MasudAKhan6

Indians are living in a fool's paradise. Brig Ghansara Singh surrendered on 1 Nov 1947 and Col Thappa in Skardu on 14 Aug 1948. The people of GB defeated Dogras and Indians and joined Pakistan unconditionally . Their demand is ridiculous and laughable. 



10:40 AM · May 4, 2020


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## ghazi52

*Masud Ahmad Khan*
March 29, 2021


In 1842, the Sikhs entered Gilgit at the request of an ousted Raja and that became the moment when an outside force was introduced to the region. The only obstacle in their way was the strong ruler of Yasin, Gohar Aman, who gave them crushing defeats several times. As long as Gohar Aman was alive, the Sikhs and Dogras did not dare to enter Gilgit and it was only after his death in 1860 when they entered.

In view of the Russian threat in 1876, the British appointed Lt. Col. John Biddulph as their agent in Gilgit. In 1889, Gilgit was made an agency and Colonel Algernon Durand was appointed as the first political agent. This was the time when the Russian representative, Captain Grombchcvsky, met the Mir of Hunza and that alarmed the British. As a result, in 1891, the Hunza-Nager expedition was launched and it led to the famous Anglo-Brusho war of 1891. After a fierce battle, both Hunza and Nager came under the suzerainty of the British. The political agent was made responsible for the states of Hunza, Nager and the political districts of Yasin, Ishkoman, Gupis and Punial.

In 1917, when the Bolshevik Revolution took place, the British decided to strengthen their hold on Gilgit. On March 20, 1935, they decided to take Gilgit Wazarat on lease from the Maharaja for 60 years and an agreement was signed. All territory to the west of river Indus was to be administered by the British political agent at Gilgit while the administration of Kashmir was confirmed to the area east of river Indus. This agreement remained intact until July of 1947 and on October 26 of the same year, the Maharaja announced the accession of Kashmir to India.

On the partition of the subcontinent, the British handed over all of Gilgit to the Maharaja—contrary to the wishes of the people of region. On the first of August 1947, the British political agent was replaced by a representative of the Kashmir durbar, Brigadier Ghansara Singh. The people of Gilgit did not welcome this decision neither their accession to India and decided to overthrow the governor. The Gilgit Scouts along with the Muslim forces of Jammu and Kashmir’s sixth infantry revolted against Dogra.

On the night of October 31, 1947, the Gilgit Scouts surrounded the governor’s residence and on November 1, Brigadier Ghansara Singh surrendered. A regional government was established and the government of Pakistan was asked to take over control of the region.

Skardu was liberated exactly one year after Pakistan’s independence. It was remarkable that the people of Gilgit-Baltistan liberated their area without external help. On November 16, 1947, Sardar Muhammad Alam Khan took over the responsibilities of the first political agent of Gilgit.

In April 28, 1949, Azad Jammu and Kashmir’s (AJK) government ceded the control of Gilgit-Baltistan to Pakistan according to the Karachi agreement. Through the resolution of the UNSC, both Azad Kashmir and the Northern Areas were included within the definition of Jammu and Kashmir.


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## ghazi52

The arrival of Sardar M. Alam, 1st Political Agent of Pakistan for Gilgit. Pakistan’s flag is being carried in procession to the Gilgit Agency House.
Date: 14 Nov. 1947.


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## ghazi52

Cuirassier
@leftofthepincer


circa January 1948







troops of the Ibex Force, enroute Skardu. commanded by Major Ehsan Ali Khan, it was formed from the Gilgit Scouts and 6ᵗʰ JAK Infantry. 176 Scouts laid down their lives in the Gilgit-Baltistan War of Liberation.
rondu.
tungas.
tsari.
parkutta.
kharmang.


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