# Eves daughters raped with impunity



## A.Rafay

*ISLAMABAD - The Indian medical student whose gang rape triggered mass protests calling for better protection for women might become a source of encouragement for Pakistani women too to raise their voices, as this crime is increasing with each passing day in the country.*
According to details, *Islamabad had witnessed a 10 percent rise in the first 11 months of the ongoing year as compared to the corresponding period last year.*
In two separate cases registered in the Kohsar Police Station, a father was alleged to have raped his own daughter, while a father-in-law allegedly raped his daughter-in-law after bringing her with him to Islamabad from her native village.
*Currently, the rapists are being trailed under sections 376,377, 496 and 365 B of Pakistan Penal Code (PPC) and Zina Ordinance, in which rapists often managed to get some relaxation. I think, Islamic law should be applied to give capital punishment to rapists, Shaista Tubbasam Khan, Advocate High Court said.* She said that rapes and other sexual crimes went unreported and offenders rarely got punished for their wrong deeds.
The lawyer, dealing in rape cases, said that besides other factors, establishment of internet cafés, in roads made by the western culture and sheesha parlours could be a few reasons behind the rise in this crime. In many cases, we see that the girls inspired by western cultures are first trapped in the name of love and friendship and then raped, she added. 
*According to data collected by this scribe from various police stations, as many as 198 cases of rape were registered in the first 11 months of this year, while 178 cases were registered in corresponding period last year.*
Meanwhile, police had yet to complete the paperwork of 38 rape cases and the process was being pushed forward at a snails pace.
*In the month of January, police registered 12 rape cases, 11 in February, 16 in March, 16 in April, 24 in May, 21 in June, 26 in July, 19 in August, 29 in September, 18 in October and six in November.* 
From among the 138 cases, the courts have so far disposed off 10 cases, convicted one accused, and acquitted seven people.
It may be noted here that the above mentioned cases were registered under the Zina Ordinance. Advocate Shaista said, Zina is either committed by a man, who is an adult and is in perfect mental condition, with a woman to whom he is not and does not suspect himself to be married with. On the other hand, it is committed by a woman, who is an adult and mentally stable, with a man to whom she is not, and does not suspect herself to be married with.
*Meanwhile, the 23-year-old Indian medical student, who was severely beaten, raped and later thrown out of moving bus on December 16 in Delhi, died on Friday in a Singapore hospital where she was admitted for treatment.*

Eve

Pakistani Members Should see that crime is also higher in their own country before Bashing others.
*Islamic Law is needed to prevent high crime and to cope with Rapists and Murderers. *

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## Leader

Im really happy to see that indian youth is standing up for basic emancipation of women that has been denied over centuries to the women of subcontinent, surely this is an example that Pakistani youth should also follow...

and it must be above political and class affiliations, we should unit for our rights, our basic rights yar...basic !!

I am sick of this retard male chauvinist mentality...

and I must say the girls must develop leadership qualities in themselves, for the very fact that this is about them and their rights, it should be led by them, because at the end of the day its about them....

I pledge to my country's youthful females, please stand up, be united, this is the era of social networking, organize yourself into a strong civil society, stand up... why cannot a group of female doctors, nurses, lawyers, educationists, media persons, teachers, students, health workers, business women, and professional ladies from all walks of life, organize a platform for themselves and fight for any injustice against women? 

be a member of one organization and take a united front... you would have those who can fight legal battle, propaganda battle at social networking sites, media battles, financial fight,..... just be organized for your rights...


There is no other way to get out of this mess !!

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## Kompromat

Rapists, should be tried in the federal sharia court, and see how this monstrous cowardly act goes down. Crippling punishments are the only way to deal with it.

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## Gandalf

Didn't Pakistanis claim there are 0 rapes in Pakistan.

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## KRAIT

Bhai logon hamare criminals ko tum try kar do Sharia ke through. Hudd ho gayi ye to. Ye news pad pad ke deemag kharab ho gaya. 
@Aeronaut Bhai if someone trolls on this thread, ban them. No warnings please.



Gandalf said:


> Didn't Pakistanis claim there are 0 rapes in Pakistan.


You are no different from those posters who were enjoying our rape cases.



Leader said:


> Im really happy to see that indian youth is standing up for basic emancipation of women that has been denied over centuries to the women of subcontinent, surely this is an example that Pakistani youth should also follow...
> There is no other way to get out of this mess !!


Hope people in Pakistan uses Social media for arranging protests. It got successful and increasing protestors. More pressure through protest can work especially during election time.

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## WAR-rior

KRAIT said:


> Bhai logon hamare criminals ko tum try kar do Sharia ke through. Hudd ho gayi ye to. Ye news pad pad ke deemag kharab ho gaya.
> @Aeronaut Bhai if someone trolls on this thread, ban them. No warnings please.
> 
> *You are no different from those posters who were enjoying our rape cases.*



NO one is enjoying. But Pakistanis need to be less hypocritical during debates and discussions. 
Warna mauka milte hi koi bhi chuka maarne se nahin chukega.

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## KRAIT

WAR-rior said:


> NO one is enjoying. But Pakistanis need to be less hypocritical during debates and discussions.
> Warna mauka milte hi koi bhi chuka maarne se nahin chukega.


I agree but I have also seen Think Tank like Pfpilot and other senior members defending us and bashing those posters. We should do the same and get rid of the trolls.

These type of posts were also made in our threads and we all hated it.

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## Kompromat

Gandalf said:


> Didn't Pakistanis claim there are 0 rapes in Pakistan.



One, more derail and you are going pink, understood?

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## WAR-rior

KRAIT said:


> I agree but I have also seen Think Tank like Pfpilot and other senior members defending us and bashing those posters. We should do the same and get rid of the trolls.
> 
> These type of posts were also made in our threads and we all hated it.


This doesnt mean we shud stop discussing it. for good discussion sincerity is important and how will this sincerity guaranteed?



Aeronaut said:


> One, more derail and you are going pink, understood?



Je Baat. Authority dikhao to aise. saala koi troll hi nahin karna.

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## KRAIT

WAR-rior said:


> This doesnt mean we shud stop discussing it. for good discussion sincerity is important and how will this sincerity guaranteed?


Of course we can discuss. Many posters from other countries participated constructively. I lost my mind because of those trolls. I don't want a Pakistani poster who might be a friend of mine feels the same what I felt that time. 

Sincerity can be guaranteed by Mutual understanding. Many threads here are discussed with minimum trolling just because in those threads the people who post know each other very well and they use words carefully even while criticizing.

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## Lahorie

Only 10 out of 138!!! What about the rest of 128 cases?? Will they take 12 years to be decided?? 

Unfortunately, the absence of speedy dispensing of justice is major factor of increase in rape cases with the passage of time. Shame!!!

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## Gandalf

Rape victims denied justice in Pakistan | Pakistan | DAWN.COM


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## Kompromat

I, don't know why these mad dingos refuse to accept rape as a social evil which has nothing to do with geography and culture. If it happens in samoa, its wrong, if it happens in Somalia its wrong, if it happens in the US its wrong, if happens in India and Pakistan its exactly wrong!

Problem with our S.Asian men [some] is that they think its "manly" to rape someone, therefore its acceptable and its something to be proud of. I, want to see a full Sharia'a court sitting for Rapists and Acid attackers....just hang them!

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## Gandalf

Rape is not a sex crime it's a gender crime.

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## KRAIT

Aeronaut said:


> I, don't know why these mad dingos refuse to accept rape as a social evil which has nothing to do with geography and culture. If it happens in samoa, its wrong, if it happens in Somalia its wrong, if it happens in the US its wrong, if happens in India and Pakistan its exactly wrong!
> Problem with our S.Asian men [some] is that they think its "manly" to rape someone, therefore its acceptable and its something to be proud of. I, want to see a full Sharia'a court sitting for Rapists and Acid attackers....just hang them!


I personally feel the growing violence and objectification of women in our society and the news to which we are exposed to are making people more indifferent and less emotional. They care less, they don't appreciate others.

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## Zarvan

A.Rafay said:


> *ISLAMABAD - The Indian medical student whose gang rape triggered mass protests calling for better protection for women might become a source of encouragement for Pakistani women too to raise their voices, as this crime is increasing with each passing day in the country.*
> According to details, *Islamabad had witnessed a 10 percent rise in the first 11 months of the ongoing year as compared to the corresponding period last year.*
> In two separate cases registered in the Kohsar Police Station, a father was alleged to have raped his own daughter, while a father-in-law allegedly raped his daughter-in-law after bringing her with him to Islamabad from her native village.
> *&#8220;Currently, the rapists are being trailed under sections 376,377, 496 and 365 B of Pakistan Penal Code (PPC) and Zina Ordinance, in which rapists often managed to get some relaxation. I think, Islamic law should be applied to give capital punishment to rapists,&#8221; Shaista Tubbasam Khan, Advocate High Court said.* She said that rapes and other sexual crimes went unreported and offenders rarely got punished for their wrong deeds.
> The lawyer, dealing in rape cases, said that besides other factors, establishment of internet cafés, in roads made by the western culture and sheesha parlours could be a few reasons behind the rise in this crime. &#8220;In many cases, we see that the girls inspired by western cultures are first trapped in the name of love and friendship and then raped,&#8221; she added.
> *According to data collected by this scribe from various police stations, as many as 198 cases of rape were registered in the first 11 months of this year, while 178 cases were registered in corresponding period last year.*
> Meanwhile, police had yet to complete the paperwork of 38 rape cases and the process was being pushed forward at a snail&#8217;s pace.
> *In the month of January, police registered 12 rape cases, 11 in February, 16 in March, 16 in April, 24 in May, 21 in June, 26 in July, 19 in August, 29 in September, 18 in October and six in November.*
> From among the 138 cases, the courts have so far disposed off 10 cases, convicted one accused, and acquitted seven people.
> It may be noted here that the above mentioned cases were registered under the Zina Ordinance. Advocate Shaista said, &#8220;Zina is either committed by a man, who is an adult and is in perfect mental condition, with a woman to whom he is not and does not suspect himself to be married with. On the other hand, it is committed by a woman, who is an adult and mentally stable, with a man to whom she is not, and does not suspect herself to be married with.&#8221;
> *Meanwhile, the 23-year-old Indian medical student, who was severely beaten, raped and later thrown out of moving bus on December 16 in Delhi, died on Friday in a Singapore hospital where she was admitted for treatment.*
> 
> Eve
> 
> Pakistani Members Should see that crime is also higher in their own country before Bashing others.
> *Islamic Law is needed to prevent high crime and to cope with Rapists and Murderers. *


We need to establish Islamic law put these rapists to death in public and by the hands of victims and show it in public live on TV this will get deter lot of the rapists and other idiots and morons or rapists should decide the way how the rapists should be killed and rapists should see all these moments so he can feel the torture and pain his mind until he is executed for all times

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## Gandalf

Zarvan said:


> We need to establish Islamic law put these rapists to death in public and by the hands of victims and show it in public live on TV this will get deter lot of the rapists and other idiots and morons or rapists should decide the way how the rapists should be killed and rapists should see all these moments so he can feel the torture and pain his mind until he is executed for all times


That's Talibunni Style.

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## acid rain

If just the rape cases registered is alarming, rest assured plenty more go unreported - this menace should be tackled at multiple levels - socially by making men aware to respect women and dignity and criminally by prosecuting rape cases swiftly and with strict punishments.

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## SamantK

If there is one sharia law I want implemented in India is beheading of rapists, does not matter to what extent. Some innocent will suffer, but aren't thousands of women suffering every day of their life?

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## Kompromat

samantk said:


> If there is one sharia law I want implemented in India is beheading of rapists, does not matter to what extent. Some innocent will suffer, but aren't thousands of women suffering every day of their life?



Beheading explicitly is not part of Sharia'a Law, its capital punishment. However, must warn you that the Islamic Jurisprudence relies on this "The accused is innocent until proven guilty" which is quite the opposite of many other legal systems. For, proving rape you need to have two witnesses, but with the evolution of medical science its not hard to establish rape having occurred and the witnesses can instead be doctors.

I, wish to see capital punishment, for both rapists and acid attackers.

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## SamantK

Aeronaut said:


> Beheading explicitly is not part of Sharia'a Law, its capital punishment. However, must warn you that the Islamic Jurisprudence relies on this "The accused is innocent until proven guilty" which is quite the opposite of many other legal systems. For, proving rape you need to have two witnesses, but with the evolution of medical science its not hard to establish rape having occurred and the witnesses can instead be doctors.
> 
> I, wish to see capital punishment, for both rapists and acid attackers.



The same is in India "innocent until proven guilty"... Some bastards deserve the harshest punishment, if its is not explicit in Islam the law should me made explicit... Beheading, would love to see their heads rolling...

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## Ayush

Gandalf said:


> Didn't Pakistanis claim there are 0 rapes in Pakistan.



leave it man.dont be like the trolls on rape threads.

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## Zarvan

Gandalf said:


> That's Talibunni Style.


What is they style of rapists when they rape women and destroy her life if a person is killed he is killed but if a women is raped she faces death every day that moment freezes in her mind and never gets out even so torturing rapists to death is the most beautiful thing needed to be done so every one who is even thinking of doing this kind of act know what to expect in return



Aeronaut said:


> Beheading explicitly is not part of Sharia'a Law, its capital punishment. However, must warn you that the Islamic Jurisprudence relies on this "The accused is innocent until proven guilty" which is quite the opposite of many other legal systems. For, proving rape you need to have two witnesses, but with the evolution of medical science its not hard to establish rape having occurred and the witnesses can instead be doctors.
> 
> I, wish to see capital punishment, for both rapists and acid attackers.


No Sir in rape witnesses are not required in rape every circumstantial evidence will do it weather it is DNA hand prints medical tests or video because in time of HAZRAT MUAHMMAD SAW no victim was ask to present witnesses

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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


> What is they style of rapists when they rape women and destroy her life if a person is killed he is killed but if a women is raped she faces death every day that moment freezes in her mind and never gets out even so torturing rapists to death is the most beautiful thing needed to be done so every one who is even thinking of doing this kind of act know what to expect in return
> 
> 
> *No Sir in rape witnesses are not required in rape every circumstantial evidence will do it weather it is DNA hand prints medical tests or video because in time of HAZRAT MUAHMMAD SAW no victim was ask to present witnesses*



PM, me "specific" references from the Quran & Shahih Hadith. Give you a few days...

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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> PM, me "specific" references from the Quran & Shahih Hadith. Give you a few days...


I will Sir what I have heard and did some research is that one was caught and beaten he accepted and one accepted himself

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## KRAIT

acid rain said:


> If just the rape cases registered is alarming, rest assured plenty more go unreported - this menace should be tackled at multiple levels - socially by making men aware to respect women and dignity and criminally by prosecuting rape cases swiftly and with strict punishments.


Start where one sees the signs of a potential rapist. Most of them are eve teasers. Beat the cr@p out of them. Just shout this guy is eve teasing, if many agrees, beat him and then call police.

There was a good campaign started in my city. Operation Garima (Pride). Any person who eve teases or make vulgar calls, harasses a girl, all she has to do is file the report and the guy will be arrested and keep in jail for at least one day. None bailable charges. 

It changed a lot. Most guys who eve tease are college going. Any criminal record will ruin their career as a professional in any company. So it delivered good result. A guys once called my fren couple of times, she told me. I know he won't disclose his name or place so I played a trick.

I told him that I will take this number and my FREN to police station and file an FIR. After an FIR, one an report to the mobile company to reveal the owner of the sim and may be the location too. I told him I will get your name and every info and will call your parent to Police stations. He never called again,

It works guys. Hurt where it hurts the most. If you see a guy eve teasing on bike or car, note his bike/car number, take a pic of his from your camera phone and post it on FB.

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## truthseeker2010

I don't understand what stands between the rapist and his punishment. I mean there are strict laws already.... and victim itself is the evidence.... then why are these antagonist not being flushed from the society.


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## Skull and Bones

truthseeker2010 said:


> I don't understand what stands between the rapist and his punishment. I mean there are strict laws already.... and victim itself is the evidence.... then why are these antagonist not being flushed from the society.



Due legal procedure, that's why it's taking it's time in India. We even gave Ajmal Kasab his due share of legal support in the court, same will happen with these rapist. But capital punishment is due in this case.

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## KRAIT

Aeronaut said:


> Beheading explicitly is not part of Sharia'a Law, its capital punishment. However, must warn you that the Islamic Jurisprudence relies on this "The accused is innocent until proven guilty" which is quite the opposite of many other legal systems. For, proving rape you need to have two witnesses, but with the evolution of medical science its not hard to establish rape having occurred and the witnesses can instead be doctors.
> I, wish to see capital punishment, for both rapists and acid attackers.


It is the same in other cases too. Innocent until proven guilty.

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## Safriz

Its big news in UK now.Almost all cannels reporting about the rape and what followed...


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## Leader

@KRAIT heard that the rapists are sentenced to death?


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## KRAIT

Leader said:


> @KRAIT heard that the rapists are sentenced to death?


Nope, country wide protests. The prisoners of the jail beaten them, made them eat human sh!t, almost saced by Police before they were murdered in the jails.

Main political parties sending their youth wing to cause violence. First Congress, today BJP. Got this on FB, it explains where our country stands on this crime. 

Punishment for Rape in different countries 

1) UAE- Instant Death Penalty within 7 days hanging 
2) Iran- Instant Stoned to death/hanging with 24 hrs
3) Afghanistan - Instant death by bullet on head within 4 days
4) China - No Trial, Medical proved rape then Death Penalty
5) Malaysia - Death Penalty 
6) Mongolia - Death as revenge by family 
7) Iraq - Death by stone till last breath
8) Taliban - Limbs/ Legs/ Balls All Cut Off, & then stoned & then shot 
9) Poland - Death thrown to Pigs*
10) INDIA - Compromise, Thinking, Trial, Bribe of 2 lacs, Rich family Kid, Abuse & Embarrassment to Girl. NO ACTION..Even d girl dies still no chargesheet filed..country gets in protest still the PM speaks in english
*

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## Leader

KRAIT said:


> Nope, country wide protests. The prisoners of the jail beaten them, made them eat human sh!t, almost saced by Police before they were murdered in the jails.
> 
> Main political parties sending their youth wing to cause violence. First Congress, today BJP. Got this on FB, it explains where our country stands on this crime.
> 
> Punishment for Rape in different countries
> 
> 1) UAE- Instant Death Penalty within 7 days hanging
> 2) Iran- Instant Stoned to death/hanging with 24 hrs
> 3) Afghanistan - Instant death by bullet on head within 4 days
> 4) China - No Trial, Medical proved rape then Death Penalty
> 5) Malaysia - Death Penalty
> 6) Mongolia - Death as revenge by family
> 7) Iraq - Death by stone till last breath
> 8) Taliban - Limbs/ Legs/ Balls All Cut Off, & then stoned & then shot
> 9) Poland - Death thrown to Pigs*
> 10) INDIA - Compromise, Thinking, Trial, Bribe of 2 lacs, Rich family Kid, Abuse & Embarrassment to Girl. NO ACTION..Even d girl dies still no chargesheet filed..country gets in protest still the PM speaks in english
> *




Err......

keep up guys, dont let the bastards go away with the crime this time...keep protesting till justice is given to the girl, and keep fighting till every girl is our countries feels secure even at night times.... and pray the same for Pakistan...

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## Markus

Thok dena chahiye salo ko.

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## Invincible INDIAN

Culprits should made to be hanged by their *own parents* in open. If they deny, they should join them too...

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## Safriz

In India now Girls are leaving old traditions and going out more , working in good positions , are becoming powerful,but many men have same old mentality...women are just for shagging,nothing else.

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## KRAIT

Leader said:


> Err......
> keep up guys, dont let the bastards go away with the crime this time...keep protesting till justice is given to the girl, and keep fighting till every girl is our countries feels secure even at night times.... and pray the same for Pakistan...


The problem is social media helped a lot in spreading the protest but one thing that is a problem that social media also bring new topics in limelight that make people to shift their focus.

If you have followed Indian news in an overview, there was huge protests on anti-corruption. Students from around the country came to Delhi. I even traveled with one guy who came from Eastern India. Now the same crowd has gone to this Rape issue. No one now cares for anti-corruption drive. 

What Pakistan is facing is that people are not coming out in huge numbers and what India is facing is that people are coming out on every new issue and loosing focus. Also, they have become so emotional that they fail to put forward more rational and practical solutions. 

Govt. may hang these culprits but as soon as this happens, people will loose interest. 

My friend who runs an NGO on Gender Equality, had started a campaign way earlier on rape in Delhi. She said that people didn't come to support that much. If they have had, they could have been successful in increasing Police presence or at least making pressure on the stte govt. to take certain actions. It could have avoided this case. 

According to info provided by her, rapists are treated very badly by the prisoners in jail. The prisoners are more humane than general population regarding rape case. General population is too indifferent.

Hope, this doesn't happen in your country. You have less population and you can create a good pressure in Pakistan that may result in some change. Try social media to the best. Even if you don't take an initiative, tell someone who is working or want to work in this regard.

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## acid rain

Safriz said:


> *In India now Girls are leaving old traditions and going out more* , working in good positions , are becoming powerful,but many men have same old mentality...women are just for shagging,nothing else.



This is an very old statement that's been going around from the 70's in India - case in point, watch bollywood movies from the 60's 70's and you will have parents complaining how their children have changed and are no more connected to their culture and have started moving out etc.

Molestation's and rape happen in every country, but for India the worrying part is the numbers that keeps going up, and the punishment or the due process of law which has too many loop holes for rapists to get away. 

As for the increase in rape cases - there has to be some reasons why it's going up, and people need to find out why.


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## Shardul.....the lion

Yes capital punishment is must.

But more important is speedy justice for each and every case with a conclusive evidence sentencing the culprit.

It only one case gets extraordinary treatment and other rape cases are ignored then again it will lead to injustice. So a revamp of policing and judiciary should be on ramps.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Leader said:


> @KRAIT heard that the rapists are sentenced to death?



They will be sentenced to death except for the 17 year old minor. 

Rape and murder charge , that too such a brutal one is sure to get death punishment.

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## Paan Singh

She was about to get married in feb with his boyfriend who was attacked with iron rod in bus

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## Gandhi G in da house

Safriz said:


> In India now Girls are leaving old traditions and going out more , working in good positions , are becoming powerful,but many men have same old mentality...women are just for shagging,nothing else.



^^^ This. Indian society has been changing very rapidly for the last 10 years particularly. A lot of people from the poorer and/or more conservative sections of Indian society are not being able to come to terms with this change. This attitude can be seen in the police and politicians too.

What you see today is a clash of civilisations in india. Clash between India of the 21st century and India of the 20th century



acid rain said:


> This is an very old statement that's been going around from the 70's in India - case in point, watch bollywood movies from the 60's 70's and you will have parents complaining how their children have changed and are no more connected to their culture and have started moving out etc.
> 
> Molestation's and rape happen in every country, but for India the worrying part is the numbers that keeps going up, and the punishment or the due process of law which has too many loop holes for rapists to get away.
> 
> As for the increase in rape cases - there has to be some reasons why it's going up, and people need to find out why.



The change in Indian society has never been as rapid as has been happening in the last 15 years.

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## KRAIT

Safriz said:


> In India now Girls are leaving old traditions and going out more , working in good positions , are becoming powerful,but many men have same old mentality...women are just for shagging,nothing else.


Actually certain portion of girl population has indirectly helped in creating such image. Especially the rich family girls. but the girls from small towns when come to metro, the spoiled guys take them as easy game which is new to them and they can't handle this behavior. Most of them don't eve report eve teasing, harassment etc. In one of college in my city, rich girls work as call girls because they want more money for their expenses even when they get decent pocket money. 

Our neighbor's daughter went to medical college but she was constantly harassed by her seniors. She came back to home and refused to go back. She didn't tell anyone. Her parents didn't know anything and forced her to go back. She committed suicide.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Btw , I am for Sharia law for rapists too. In fact if there is a vote today , most Indians would vote in its favour.



KRAIT said:


> *Actually certain portion of girl population has indirectly helped in creating such image. Especially the rich family girls.* but the girls from small towns when come to metro, the spoiled guys take them as easy game which is new to them and they can't handle this behavior. Most of them don't eve report eve teasing, harassment etc. In one of college in my city, rich girls work as call girls because they want more money for their expenses even when they get decent pocket money.
> 
> Our neighbor's daughter went to medical college but she was constantly harassed by her seniors. She came back to home and refused to go back. She didn't tell anyone. Her parents didn't know anything and forced her to go back. She committed suicide.



People with the bold mentality , are a part of the problem , not the solution. To stereotype rich girls like that . Very sorry bro, you need to check your thoughts . This is the kind of mentality that leads some men to think that "a particular kind of girl is fair game".

No rich girl asks a guy to come and rape her , all rich girls are not call girls , in fact most aren't .Yes sometimes they have , lets say "a better sex life" than other girls , but that is with their consent.There is nothing illegal about it.

It doesn't mean that men should start raping girls , there is no justification for this kind of thinking.

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## Leader

KRAIT said:


> The problem is social media helped a lot in spreading the protest but one thing that is a problem that social media also bring new topics in limelight that make people to shift their focus.
> 
> If you have followed Indian news in an overview, there was huge protests on anti-corruption. Students from around the country came to Delhi. I even traveled with one guy who came from Eastern India. Now the same crowd has gone to this Rape issue. No one now cares for anti-corruption drive.
> 
> What Pakistan is facing is that people are not coming out in huge numbers and what India is facing is that people are coming out on every new issue and loosing focus. Also, they have become so emotional that they fail to put forward more rational and practical solutions.
> 
> Govt. may hang these culprits but as soon as this happens, people will loose interest.
> 
> My friend who runs an NGO on Gender Equality, had started a campaign way earlier on rape in Delhi. She said that people didn't come to support that much. If they have had, they could have been successful in increasing Police presence or at least making pressure on the stte govt. to take certain actions. It could have avoided this case.
> 
> According to info provided by her, rapists are treated very badly by the prisoners in jail. The prisoners are more humane than general population regarding rape case. General population is too indifferent.
> 
> Hope, this doesn't happen in your country. You have less population and you can create a good pressure in Pakistan that may result in some change. Try social media to the best. Even if you don't take an initiative, tell someone who is working or want to work in this regard.



Yar you are right the problem is there are too many issues that we face,as a week passes, something more disgusting happens, people at social networks also need time to live their lives as of today, which means what the core problem is our weak civil society which is led by the people in position, not by students or jobless leaders... the concept of civil society is to pursue the issue like a lawyer does.. manage it multi issue, keep feeding with information with that regard, pursue...

I can understand that India is a big big country but the major problem is the indifference of the people... and it really crushes my heart that how heartless our world is...



nick_indian said:


> They will be sentenced to death accept for the 17 year old minor.
> 
> Rape and murder charge , that too such a brutal one is sure to get death punishment.



I sure hope so, and wish the indian civil society to keep growing in strength and power.... same for my country's...

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## snakeeagle

shoot on thier head either the victim is muslim or non muslim


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## KRAIT

nick_indian said:


> Btw , I am for Sharia law for rapists too. In fact if there is a vote today , most Indians would vote in its favour.
> People with the bold mentality , are a part of the problem , not the solution. To stereotype rich girls like that . Very sorry bro, you need to check your thoughts . This is the kind of mentality that leads some men to think that "a particular kind of girl is fair game".
> No rich girl asks a guy to come and rape her , all rich girls are not call girls , in fact most aren't .Yes sometimes they have , lets say "a better sex life" than other girls , but that is with their consent.There is nothing illegal about it.
> It doesn't mean that men should start raping girls , there is no justification for this kind of thinking.


You are not understanding the point. What I am telling you is reality. In metros, you can get Russian or Uzbeck prostitute for 8K a night - 3 shots. 

Even in small cities, there are many call girls that people don't even know exists. I have seen this culture. I have heard many cases where the guys were even surprised to see girls' behavior. You can blame me for anything. I don't say that it should be followed. I am telling the reality. Many girls in these metros drink to such extent that they don't even have any control on their mind. Many asks the guy out for one night stand. This is the culture that is developing which you might have not seen.

I have already explained the case of rural India.

You know what the problem is, people are not ready to accept the ugly reality in the society which even parents of the girls and boys don't know. You won't believe the amount of drugs being consumed. You just can't ignore other aspects of the problem.

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## Markus

snakeeagle said:


> shoot on thier head either the victim is muslim or non muslim



No, cut off their heads.



KRAIT said:


> You are not understanding the point. What I am telling you is reality. *In metros, you can get Russian or Uzbeck prostitute for 8K a night - 3 shots.*
> 
> Even in small cities, there are many call girls that people don't even know exists. I have seen this culture. I have heard many cases where the guys were even surprised to see girls' behavior. You can blame me for anything. I don't say that it should be followed. I am telling the reality. Many girls in these metros drink to such extent that they don't even have any control on their mind. Many asks the guy out for one night stand. This is the culture that is developing which you might have not seen.
> 
> I have already explained the case of rural India.



Are you sure you are a female ? 

For a female, that's very outright and strong language.

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## newdelhinsa

Aeronaut said:


> Rapists, should be tried in the federal sharia court, and see how this monstrous cowardly act goes down. Crippling punishments are the only way to deal with it.



Sharia courts ? Aren't they biased against women ?


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## KRAIT

Markus said:


> No, cut off their heads.
> Are you sure you are a female ?
> For a female, that's very outright and strong language.


I am a guy. I know these things. I can explain in detail about this foreign prostitute culture.

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## Markus

KRAIT said:


> I am a guy. I know these things. I can explain in detail about this foreign prostitute culture.



If you are a guy then its alright, but in that other thread, everybody were calling you female.

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## KRAIT

Markus said:


> If you are a guy then its alright, but in that other thread, everybody were calling you female.


That was a rumor started by a guy. We often joke about it. You just can't stop everybody so its better to play along.

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## Markus

KRAIT said:


> That was a rumor started by a guy. We often joke about it. You just can't stop everybody so its better to play along.



lol I took it seriously.

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## Safriz

KRAIT said:


> You are not understanding the point. What I am telling you is reality. In metros, you can get Russian or Uzbeck prostitute for 8K a night - 3 shots.
> 
> Even in small cities, there are many call girls that people don't even know exists. I have seen this culture. I have heard many cases where the guys were even surprised to see girls' behavior. You can blame me for anything. I don't say that it should be followed. I am telling the reality. Many girls in these metros drink to such extent that they don't even have any control on their mind. Many asks the guy out for one night stand. This is the culture that is developing which you might have not seen.
> 
> I have already explained the case of rural India.
> 
> You know what the problem is, people are not ready to accept the ugly reality in the society which even parents of the girls and boys don't know. You won't believe the amount of drugs being consumed.



Thats where 'legalizing and regulating' prostitution can be benificial.
Create an area like red light area where desparate men can go instead of terrorizing random women.
Same for women,those who want extea cash can go there and sell themselves,instead of mixing with ordinary women and making men think that a certain class,type or area of women are available fir sex,due to actions of few women.

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## Kompromat

newdelhinsa said:


> Sharia courts ? Aren't they biased against women ?



Depends, on the evidence, mostly they issue the harshest punishment for rapists.

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## Gandhi G in da house

KRAIT said:


> You are not understanding the point. What I am telling you is reality. In metros, you can get Russian or Uzbeck prostitute for 8K a night - 3 shots.
> 
> Even in small cities, there are many call girls that people don't even know exists. I have seen this culture. I have heard many cases where the guys were even surprised to see girls' behavior. You can blame me for anything. I don't say that it should be followed. I am telling the reality. Many girls in these metros drink to such extent that they don't even have any control on their mind. Many asks the guy out for one night stand. This is the culture that is developing which you might have not seen.
> 
> I have already explained the case of rural India.
> 
> You know what the problem is, people are not ready to accept the ugly reality in the society which even parents of the girls and boys don't know. You won't believe the amount of drugs being consumed. You just can't ignore other aspects of the problem.




Firsty Uzbek and russian girls are not a part of Indian society, the one which we are concerned right now.

Secondly ,dude , I am from an upper middle class family in Delhi and went to a very elite Delhi school- DPS and even now in my college there are many rich people.I know everything that you are talking about.

These kind of girls that you talk about are in the minority and even if a girls asks a guy for a one night stand what's illegal about that ?

Does that justify rape ? What are you talking about man ?

You are justifying rape because some girls here and there are asking guys for one night stands and drinking ? Whatever they are doing they are doing out of their own will. Doesn't give any man the right to rape. And again let me tell you this , this aspect of rich girls that you are talking about is a minority aspect. most are not like this anyway , even if they were , rape can't be justified.

Honestly, I can't believe an educated guy like you can think this way.

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## KRAIT

Safriz said:


> Thats where 'legalizing and regulating' prostitution can be benificial.
> Create an area like red light area where desparate men can go instead of terrorizing random women.
> Same for women,those who want extea cash can go there and sell themselves,instead of mixing with ordinary women and making men think that a certain class,type or area of women are available fir sex,due to actions of few women.


There is a problem with this. Of course it may reduce rapes but will create other problems. 

It will create demands for more women as it will be legal for anyone to have one and many men don't go for a prostitute because of fear of law. It may save the girls in cities but the demand will be fulfilled by kidnapping girls from rural and small towns, brought on false promises and thrown into sexual slavery and prostitution. Human trafficking of women is already a major problem in our country and people don't know about it. No one cares about them. Just because the belong to poor and rural families and no one cares about them.

These protests often happen when it happens in metros. If you want I can explain more in detail and cite an organization started by a woman in NE India who works to save girls from prostitution and kidnapping. Most of the girls are not even above 18. They are beaten and gagged by their customers, violence which they can't do with their wives and gfs.

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## KRAIT

nick_indian said:


> Firsty Uzbek and russian girls are not a part of Indian society, the one which we are concerned right now.
> Secondly ,dude , I am from an upper middle class family in Delhi and went to a very elite Delhi school- DPS and even now in my college there are many rich people.I know everything that you are talking about.
> These kind of girls that you talk about are in the minority and even if a girls asks a guy for a one night stand what's illegal about that ? Does that justify rape ? What are you talking about man ?
> You are justifying rape because some girls here and there are asking guys for one night stands and drinking ? Whatever they are doing they are doing out of their own will. Doesn't give any man the right to rape. And again let me tell you this , this aspect of rich girls that you are talking about is a minority aspect. most are not like this anyway , even if they were , rape can't be justified.
> Honestly, I can't believe an educated guy like you can think this way.


I don't think like that way, its the thinking of other guys who come from small towns and villages. Since you belong to upper middle class and you see it often, you don't find it weird. For a upper lower class and middle class, this is complete change of society. They can't adjust to it and they react in weird way. 

Problem is you don't want to understand psychology of these people. You don't know about these middle class eve teasers and harassers. Read some journals. Talk to some social worker who work in this field. You don't know how different the society is. 

No one is justifying rape. I am telling you how guys react to a girl who drinks and asks for one night stand. This affects a guy's mentality that is new to this culture. Read about juvenile rapists accounts and testimonies. 

Again, I tell you that you have to think over and research about things that you think it is normal to you may be quite influential for a different person which may push him to the edge. 

Russian and Uzbek case reflects how desperate the guys in metros. And how much they lack self control, especially when they are drunk.

And don't make these condescending personal posts if you can't understand what I am saying.

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## Safriz

^^ This again attributes to men's mentality...
Even a prostitute is a woman and needs to be dealt in a certain way,not as a toy...

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## RazorMC

The problem in our subcontinent society is not with the laws, but the actual ground-work by the police.
We can make as many laws as we want, but there's not going to be an ounce of difference if the police fails to do their work with honesty.

Then there's the issue of registering a rape-case. Most of the cases aren't even registered because it is considered shameful for the victim's family (I know it's weird) to bring this into the public attention. Then they have to worry about the possible harrassment by the police themselves. This is especially true in our feudal areas where the females are just work-horses. 

Finally there's the money/power combo that can never be challenged in our society, even by the upholders of justice. Many FIRs are simply waived off by the corrupt policemen who don't want to tangle with the ruling elite.

I also feel that we have started to adopt fashion from more liberal countries without bringing our laws upto the same level. Both our societies have a different opinion of what constitutes '_conservative_' and what is considered '_liberal_'. While people are free to choose their own lifestyle, barbarians will continue using this as an excuse.

Someone in Dubai got arrested for molesting a woman (took photos from under their skirts) and he had the nerve to say that the way they dressed made him excited and caused him to do this act.

Swift implementation of the law is the only way forward along with an understanding that the victim is guiltless here and there's no shame in demanding justice.

As per Islamic text:


> Narrated by Abu Sa'd al Khudri (Sahih Muslim, Hadith 79) Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "He who amongst you sees something abominable should modify it with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do that, then he should do it with his tongue; and if he has not strength enough to do even that, then he should (at least abhor it) from his heart; and that is the least of faith."


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## Sashan

Whether the girl is a prostitute, open for one night stand,drinks, goes for pre-marital/extra-marital sex, parties till late night or dresses differently is not an excuse for men to rape her. Anything without her consent needs to be punished. I have come across incidents where a prostitute was raped (she agreed for a price with couple of college students in the corner of the college ground and ended up being forced to sleep with 17 guys that night - true story).

In short, MEN NEED TO CHANGE.

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## Gandhi G in da house

KRAIT said:


> I don't think like that way, its the thinking of other guys who come from small towns and villages. Since you belong to upper middle class and you see it often, you don't find it weird. For a upper lower class and middle class, this is complete change of society. They can't adjust to it and they react in weird way.
> 
> Problem is you don't want to understand psychology of these people. You don't know about these middle class eve teasers and harassers. Read some journals. Talk to some social worker who work in this field. You don't know how different the society is.
> 
> No one is justifying rape. I am telling you how guys react to a girl who drinks and asks for one night stand. This affects a guy's mentality that is new to this culture. Read about juvenile rapists accounts and testimonies.
> 
> Again, I tell you that you have to think over and research about things that you think it is normal to you may be quite influential for a different person which may push him to the edge.
> 
> Russian and Uzbek case reflects how desperate the guys in metros. And how much they lack self control, especially when they are drunk.
> 
> And don't make these condescending personal posts if you can't understand what I am saying.




Friend, instead of trying to understand that sick mentality , we should try to change it. Those women who drink and ask for one night stands are not meant to be raped .period.

Same goes for even professional prostitutes as Safriz said. Women should be allowed to drink and ask guys out just like men are. this is what equality means.

Tell me this , in this country so many little girls and old women are raped , what is their fault ? They don't drink or wear short clothes. The problem is with the sick mentality of rapists. They are completely to be blamed for this and not any rich or poor girls.

I don't see any condescension in my post. I am surprised you think this way being an educated man , and i stand by that.


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## Sinnerman108

nick_indian said:


> Friend, instead of trying to understand that sick mentality , we should try to change it. Those women who drink and ask for one night stands are not meant to be raped .period.
> 
> Same goes for even professional prostitutes as Safriz said. Women should be allowed to drink and ask guys out just like men are. this is what equality means.
> 
> Tell me this , in this country so many little girls and old women are raped , what is their fault ? They don't drink or wear short clothes. The problem is with the sick mentality of rapists. They are completely to be blamed for this and not any rich or poor girls.
> 
> I don't see any condescension in my post. I am surprised you think this way being an educated man , and i stand by that.



What mentality ?

I remember women in markets were addressed as behan G / Baji in India & Pakistan respectively.

Compared to the strict gender segregation practiced in Arab countries, ours was an extremely well knit society.

So what happend ? In the last 20 or so years, how has society turned so violent and how have morals erroded so fast ?

discuss these aspects, maybe we will all learn some thing.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Safriz said:


> Thats where 'legalizing and regulating' prostitution can be benificial.
> Create an area like red light area where desparate men can go instead of terrorizing random women.
> Same for women,those who want extea cash can go there and sell themselves,instead of mixing with ordinary women and making men think that a certain class,type or area of women are available fir sex,due to actions of few women.



Dude most women getting raped in India are from the poor classes .Rape cases of girls as young as 5 and women as old as 70 year old have been reported.

This whole idea of lifestyle of certain high class woman triggering people to rape women is BS. In fact , most of these sick rapists in India would be really scared to rape a rich looking woman who gets out of a big car . They think more than 100 times , because they know she comes from an influential family.

Even this girl who was raped in Delhi, was from a lower middle class family in U.P , that's why she was taking a bus at night in the first place, something no so called "rich woman" would do.

In short these * Men have to change*



salman108 said:


> What mentality ?
> 
> I remember women in markets were addressed as behan G / Baji in India & Pakistan respectively.
> 
> Compared to the strict gender segregation practiced in Arab countries, ours was an extremely well knit society.
> 
> So what happend ? In the last 20 or so years, how has society turned so violent and how have morals erroded so fast ?
> 
> discuss these aspects, maybe we will all learn some thing.



Dude, i don't want to repeat everything. Just go through the last few pages. You will probably get an idea.


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## KRAIT

nick_indian said:


> Friend, instead of trying to understand that sick mentality , we should try to change it. Those women who drink and ask for one night stands are not meant to be raped .period.
> Same goes for even professional prostitutes as Safriz said. Women should be allowed to drink and ask guys out just like men are. this is what equality means.
> Tell me this , in this country so many little girls and old women are raped , what is their fault ? They don't drink or wear short clothes. The problem is with the sick mentality of rapists. They are completely to be blamed for this and not any rich or poor girls.
> I don't see any condescension in my post. I am surprised you think this way being an educated man , and i stand by that.


There lies the difference between you and me. You don't want to identify the root of the problem and you want to find the solution. Why there is sudden rise in rape cases in Delhi. ever thought about it. Understand the social dynamics. A girl who drinks and involve in pre-martial sex is a cultural shock to these new urban males. They haven't seen this behavior earlier in the life.This new cultural change their perception about the woman. They starts to objectify them and start taking them as a material to use and throw as they get convinced that these girls lack character. 

Whereas these girls are equally cultured and have more responsible behavior in relationship. 

Let me cite an example, In US, girls and women are often in bikinis on beaches and in swimming pools. The guys from their childhood have seen it as a part of their culture. For them its a normal behavior. But send a rural person from India and see his reaction. He will be ogling each and every girl out there. Now you will think I should beat this guy if he teases a girl or attacks a woman or try to rape her. How many will you beat. You have to think about the general psychology of each and every person from conservative background, their change in behavior and their reaction to new environment. 

Here comes sex education, media and family values. Here comes proper supervision, strict laws and responsible behavior and code of conduct. 

Problem with you and other guys out there protesting is that they don't understand what has changed this new generation to act in such a way that instead of being more civilized, they are turning into animals. 

What is going in adolescent's mind and what he is exposed to. How much guidance and who is he following as a role model ? 

I can explain you each and every characteristic of any guy in today's India. Just name it. Alcohol consumption, drugs, smoke, prostitute hiring, anything. 

You are thinking emotionally. You have to see the transformation of one gender and relative transformation of psyche of today's population. Even if you wear jeans, drink alcohol or anything so called modern, you still touch your parent's feet. 

if there is lack of catching up and adjustment, social differences get created and crime increases.

So buddy, again, read more about crime and criminal psychology, read some social science journals, talk to some social workers. Don't just last out getting emotional.

Most of the social workers say that their problem is not only the govt. but also these so called one time protestors and emotional people. They do more harm than good. They have practical solutions which I have shared about Gurgaon case which resulted in instant beefing up of security by the govt. and by the shops. 

Think rationaly and find practical solution. Its easy to say you have to change the mindset of the people. But when it comes to How ? You have no answer. Its easy to say, respect woman, blah blah blah. But how you systematically implement it so that it changes the decision making and psychology of the young population, is whole different game.

There you will fail and we will have to deal with your emotional outbursts and to implement necessary measures to avoid you from creating the mess. I am telling you all this from my experience with actual social workers.


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## airmarshal

Gandalf said:


> Didn't Pakistanis claim there are 0 rapes in Pakistan.



Its rare, but not 0. 

Rape, if it happens in India or Pakistan is a crime and its not some spectacle to enjoy. I hope you get my point.

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## KRAIT

Sashan said:


> Whether the girl is a prostitute, open for one night stand,drinks, goes for pre-marital/extra-marital sex, parties till late night or dresses differently is not an excuse for men to rape her. Anything without her consent needs to be punished. I have come across incidents where a prostitute was raped (she agreed for a price with couple of college students in the corner of the college ground and ended up being forced to sleep with 17 guys that night - true story).
> In short, MEN NEED TO CHANGE.


Point is not how girl behaves, point is how man reacts to it. I can't understand why yu guys don't want to understand the reason for these crimes increase. 

Men has to change. 
Men has to change.
Men has to change.

Same can be said about terrorists, murderers, drunk drivers etc. etc. Point is how to change. If you really want to make a change, think about solutions in detail rather than making one line solution Men has to change. 

Its like saying a cricketer you have to perform well. Everyone knows that we have to change. The cricketer knows he has to perform. But how, its the job of the coach to make him understand how to play and how to perform. 

You are like commentators and actual people who make changes and social workers are the coaches. 

Its easy to criticize and say one line solution. But to make the change, you will fail.


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## Vicar

As many as 150 MPs in this lok sabha have criminal records including rape and molestation. What do you expect from these politicians, tougher laws !! it is a joke.


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## Hashshāshīn

I am usually against capital punishment, but rapist and murderers deserve no sympathy. They deserved to be wiped out from the planet...


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## khanboy007

in my opinion RAPE and MURDER are equal crimes with a different name, there should be capital punishment.........

well for RAPING someone or some one getting raped i wont blame western cultures because the criminal here is the one who rape's and I find the rapist wrong as it's the rapist who is *MENTALLY SICK*.........

if u have women dressed up in western styles always around you u wont be that "THARKIII" 

sadly the thing is people (specially men) are sick minded in the sub-continent.......and they must be taught a LESSON *IMMEDIATELY*


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## Gandhi G in da house

KRAIT said:


> There lies the difference between you and me. You don't want to identify the root of the problem and you want to find the solution. Why there is sudden rise in rape cases in Delhi. ever thought about it. Understand the social dynamics. A girl who drinks and involve in pre-martial sex is a cultural shock to these new urban males. They haven't seen this behavior earlier in the life.This new cultural change their perception about the woman. They starts to objectify them and start taking them as a material to use and throw as they get convinced that these girls lack character.
> 
> Whereas these girls are equally cultured and have more responsible behavior in relationship.
> 
> Let me cite an example, In US, girls and women are often in bikinis on beaches and in swimming pools. The guys from their childhood have seen it as a part of their culture. For them its a normal behavior. But send a rural person from India and see his reaction. He will be ogling each and every girl out there. Now you will think I should beat this guy if he teases a girl or attacks a woman or try to rape her. How many will you beat. You have to think about the general psychology of each and every person from conservative background, their change in behavior and their reaction to new environment.
> 
> Here comes sex education, media and family values. Here comes proper supervision, strict laws and responsible behavior and code of conduct.
> 
> Problem with you and other guys out there protesting is that they don't understand what has changed this new generation to act in such a way that instead of being more civilized, they are turning into animals.
> 
> What is going in adolescent's mind and what he is exposed to. How much guidance and who is he following as a role model ?
> 
> I can explain you each and every characteristic of any guy in today's India. Just name it. Alcohol consumption, drugs, smoke, prostitute hiring, anything.
> 
> You are thinking emotionally. You have to see the transformation of one gender and relative transformation of psyche of today's population. Even if you wear jeans, drink alcohol or anything so called modern, you still touch your parent's feet.
> 
> if there is lack of catching up and adjustment, social differences get created and crime increases.
> 
> So buddy, again, read more about crime and criminal psychology, read some social science journals, talk to some social workers. Don't just last out getting emotional.
> 
> Most of the social workers say that their problem is not only the govt. but also these so called one time protestors and emotional people. They do more harm than good. They have practical solutions which I have shared about Gurgaon case which resulted in instant beefing up of security by the govt. and by the shops.
> 
> Think rationaly and find practical solution. Its easy to say you have to change the mindset of the people. But when it comes to How ? You have no answer. Its easy to say, respect woman, blah blah blah. But how you systematically implement it so that it changes the decision making and psychology of the young population, is whole different game.
> 
> There you will fail and we will have to deal with your emotional outbursts and to implement necessary measures to avoid you from creating the mess. I am telling you all this from my experience with actual social workers.



Dude , you are saying the same thing .Whose problem is it that these conservative urban/rural males are not moving on with the times and treat women who drink as fair game for rape ? Not mine. It is their problem and their parents. Proper moral education is what is needed both from schools and parents side.I just still can't get how you say what rich girls do is a part of the problem?

Btw , can you please tell me why this girl in Delhi was raped ? Was she drinking ? Was she rich ? Was she wearing short clothes?How many rich girls are raped in India anyway ? Most are poor. In fact most rich girls , the kind that you are talking about hardly ever get raped , because people are scared of their potentially influential background.

If what you are saying is true then why are little girls and old women also raped ?

Also, i would like to tell you that rapes have always been high in India , it is just that people are becoming more aware of their rights now thanks to economic development and media that is why more rapes are being reported in the police now and the media is covering them in a much bigger way.

Please explain me why in your earlier posts you said that "Rich women's behaviour also causes these problems" ?



KRAIT said:


> Point is not how girl behaves, point is how man reacts to it. I can't understand why yu guys don't want to understand the reason for these crimes increase.
> 
> Men has to change.
> Men has to change.
> Men has to change.
> 
> Same can be said about terrorists, murderers, drunk drivers etc. etc. Point is how to change. If you really want to make a change, think about solutions in detail rather than making one line solution Men has to change.
> 
> Its like saying a cricketer you have to perform well. Everyone knows that we have to change. The cricketer knows he has to perform. But how, its the job of the coach to make him understand how to play and how to perform.
> 
> You are like commentators and actual people who make changes and social workers are the coaches.
> 
> Its easy to criticize and say one line solution. But to make the change, you will fail.



So instead of trying to change the mentality of men who rape or molest , we should change the "rich woman's behaviour" ? Is it ?


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## KRAIT

You guys are repeating same thing over and over again. Behead them, cut their nuts, and blah blah blah. Do you really think tough laws can make huge difference ? No. For changing the situation you have to understand the social dynamics and work on basic factors. Unless you do it, you will be just cutting branches instead of uprooting the evil. 

We don't need old rhetoric like, Men has to change, Respect woman, Hang the rapists, Ban alcohol etc etc. Single lines don't solve the problem. What follows them with proper plan and execution is what changes the system and society. 

Do you know what are the basic problems of NGOs working in education, Women's Rights etc. ? Lets see how many of you can tell me.


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## KRAIT

nick_indian said:


> Dude , you are saying the same thing .Whose problem is it that these conservative urban/rural males are not moving on with the times and treat women who drink as fair game for rape ? Not mine. It is their problem and their parents. Proper moral education is what is needed both from schools and parents side.I just still can't get how you say what rich girls do is a part of the problem?
> Btw , can you please tell me why this girl in Delhi was raped ? Was she drinking ? Was she rich ? Was she wearing short clothes?How many rich girls are raped in India anyway ? Most are poor. In fact most rich girls , the kind that you are talking about hardly ever get raped , because people are scared of their potentially influential background.
> If what you are saying is true then why are little girls and old women also raped ?
> Also, i would like to tell you that rapes have always been high in India , it is just that people are becoming more aware of their rights now thanks to economic development and media that is why more rapes are being reported in the police now and the media is covering them in a much bigger way.
> Please explain me why in your earlier posts you said that "Rich women's behaviour also causes these problems" ?
> So instead of trying to change the mentality of men who rape or molest , we should change the "rich woman's behaviour" ? Is it ?


 I said the reaction of these boys and men from other social background towards this rich girls culture and their behaviour. 

Is it that hard for you to understand what I am talking about ? Where the hell I am blaming women. I am telling you how these men dehumanize and start disrespecting women. 

You want me to psycho-analyse the case of that Delhi girl ? 

You said 
*
"So instead of trying to change the mentality of men who rape or molest , we should change the "rich woman's behaviour" ? Is it ?"*

Tell me how you will change the mentality of the male who rape or molest. Tell me how you can avoid men to rape and change their psyche to stop taking women as objects ?

Answer this in points. 

I am not blaming women dammit. I am telling you to find the reasons why a person become a rapist or molester. That's how you can tackle present situation and avoid potential rapists in making. 

Its like saying stop the Maoists movement but failing to see what started. Things don't work in the way you say. 

Be practical and go read some studies. I am done with you. You are just one of those kids who have never seen the ugly reality and the real India that exists. I bet you have never lived in a village for a month. If you have, you will know why people dies in villages, why there are so many rapes by upper class, why there is lack of education, why girls are killed after birth and why people die of hunger.

You just saw few facebook posts, some threads and started targeting me who really want to discuss with a mature person who has seen these things and can practically discuss the solution.

Have you ever worked for a NGO ?


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## Sashan

KRAIT said:


> Point is not how girl behaves, point is how man reacts to it. I can't understand why yu guys don't want to understand the reason for these crimes increase.
> 
> Men has to change.
> Men has to change.
> Men has to change.
> 
> Same can be said about terrorists, murderers, drunk drivers etc. etc. Point is how to change. If you really want to make a change, think about solutions in detail rather than making one line solution Men has to change.
> 
> Its like saying a cricketer you have to perform well. Everyone knows that we have to change. The cricketer knows he has to perform. But how, its the job of the coach to make him understand how to play and how to perform.
> 
> You are like commentators and actual people who make changes and social workers are the coaches.
> 
> Its easy to criticize and say one line solution. *But to make the change, you will fail*.



Agreed to your point changes will not be easy. But saying one will fail is preposterous. Look at how western countries changed - For example - US - women were not allowed to vote till 1920s i.e for 140 years or so, they were treated as unequal - Even after 1920s till the advent of second world war, women were seen more as a homemaker. Things changed during and after the second world war as women started working as men were away fighting the war. And over few decades, US society has evolved to where it is now. For US, the catalyst I would say is World War II.

For India, the catalyst is 1991 when markets started opening up and more and more women has started to work. In a few decades, through strong laws forced by these kinds of situations(in Tamilnadu - a death of a girl called Sarika Shah in 1998 brought some strong laws against eve teasing and lady cops were posted in plain clothes in areas prone for eve teasing and that malice has reduced to a certain extent), poverty reduction due to the markets opening up, men's realisation that women are here to stay and challenge them at work and other fields will bring in the change. So no one need to take any special efforts, changes will be forced on men if they don't change by themselves.

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## Safriz

Sashan said:


> Whether the girl is a prostitute, open for one night stand,drinks, goes for pre-marital/extra-marital sex, parties till late night or dresses differently is not an excuse for men to rape her. Anything without her consent needs to be punished. I have come across incidents where a prostitute was raped (she agreed for a price with couple of college students in the corner of the college ground and ended up being forced to sleep with 17 guys that night - true story).
> 
> In short, MEN NEED TO CHANGE.



100% responsibility on men isnt right and is a neo-feminist ideology where for them women are ok to run around with their tits haging out but a man cant send a dirty text without risking legal action under perversion and misuse of communication laws...
Responsibility lies on both genders..
Women shouldnt dress like sluts and men should be dogs on heat..


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## KRAIT

Sashan said:


> Agreed to your point changes will not be easy. But saying one will fail is preposterous. Look at how western countries changed - For example - US - women were not allowed to vote till 1920s i.e for 140 years or so, they were treated as unequal - Even after 1920s till the advent of second world war, women were seen more as a homemaker. Things changed during and after the second world war as women started working as men were away fighting the war. And over few decades, US society has evolved to where it is now. For US, the catalyst I would say is World War II.
> 
> For India, the catalyst is 1991 when markets started opening up and more and more women has started to work. In a few decades, through strong laws forced by these kinds of situations(in Tamilnadu - a death of a girl called Sarika Shah in 1998 brought some strong laws against eve teasing and lady cops were posted in plain clothes in areas prone for eve teasing and that malice has reduced to a certain extent), poverty reduction due to the markets opening up, men's realisation that women are here to stay and challenge them at work and other fields will bring in the change. So no one need to take any special efforts, changes will be forced on men if they don't change by themselves.


Dude, you failed to take the meaning and context of the entire sentence. I said if you only criticize and make one liner solutions, you will fail. 

But if you go deep into problem, look for basic causes, then only you will succeed. 

I am asking you to stop making this superficial suggestions that doesn't give enough practical ways to make the change. 

One can say movies are responsible. But to understand why they are responsible, you have to go to psychometeric functions and decision making of human brain. Feedback mechanism of human brain. 

I am currently working with an NGO to create pressure on the authorities to make few changes in the system and to raise awareness and practical information needed for girls to avoid going in highly crime prone regions.



Safriz said:


> 100% responsibility on men isnt right and is a neo-feminist ideology where for them women are ok to run around with their tits haging out but a man cant send a dirty text without risking legal action under perversion and misuse of communication laws...
> Responsibility lies on both genders..
> Women shouldnt dress like sluts and men should be dogs on heat..


In California, women skates on beaches in bikinis. How many rapes happen there ? Your argument fails coz you are not taking into account of the men native to that place who have become habitual of this conditions.


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## Gandhi G in da house

airmarshal said:


> *Its rare*, but not 0.
> 
> Rape, if it happens in India or Pakistan is a crime and its not some spectacle to enjoy. I hope you get my point.



Pure and unadulterated BS. 

Just type rape in Pakistan on Google and see the results.


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## Safriz

KRAIT said:


> Dude, you failed to take the meaning and context of the entire sentence. I said if you only criticize and make one liner solutions, you will fail.
> 
> But if you go deep into problem, look for basic causes, then only you will succeed.
> 
> I am asking you to stop making this superficial suggestions that doesn't give enough practical ways to make the change.
> 
> One can say movies are responsible. But to understand why they are responsible, you have to go to psychometeric functions and decision making of human brain. Feedback mechanism of human brain.
> 
> I am currently working with an NGO to create pressure on the authorities to make few changes in the system and to raise awareness and practical information needed for girls to avoid going in highly crime prone regions.
> 
> In california, women skates on beaches in bikinis. How many rapes happen there ? Your argument fails coz you are not taking into account of the men native to that place who have become habitual of this conditions.



No my argument is not flawed.
You do need to look into rape statictics of the west....


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## Gandhi G in da house

Safriz said:


> 100% responsibility on men isnt right and is a neo-feminist ideology where for them women are ok to run around with their tits haging out but a man cant send a dirty text without risking legal action under perversion and misuse of communication laws...
> Responsibility lies on both genders..
> Women shouldnt dress like sluts and men should be dogs on heat..



As long as the woman is not showing any of her private parts in public , which is illegal by the way, it is not her fault if she gets raped .Even then her fault won't be more than 10 %.

Ofcourse , if her tits are hanging out while walking on the streets then some blame would go on her.


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## KRAIT

Safriz said:


> No my argument is not flawed.
> You do need to look into rape statictics of the west....


Statistics are of no use if it isn't used to understand the dynamics, make a model, find the responsible factors, data fitting and conclusions from the experts. 

US and Liberia, go and just compare their statistics. Then try to find the common factors.


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## Safriz

And making all women naked is another way of doing it..
So much flesh is around that its of no value,unless she is real stunner.
But that mode of tackling the issue does not comply with eastern values including indian values and traditions.


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## Sashan

KRAIT said:


> Dude, you failed to take the meaning and context of the entire sentence. I said if you only criticize and make one liner solutions, you will fail.
> 
> But if you go deep into problem, look for basic causes, then only you will succeed.
> 
> I am asking you to stop making this superficial suggestions that doesn't give enough practical ways to make the change.
> 
> One can say movies are responsible. But to understand why they are responsible, you have to go to psychometeric functions and decision making of human brain. Feedback mechanism of human brain.
> 
> I am currently working with an NGO to create pressure on the authorities to make few changes in the system and to raise awareness and practical information needed for girls to avoid going in highly crime prone regions.



You can't claim I am making superficial suggestions if my POV does not suit you. You have your views and I have mine. I am saying no need for these NGOs and psychological mumbo jumbo to bring in change. I am saying change will happen due to the catalyst I mentioned above.

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## KRAIT

Safriz said:


> And making all women naked is another way of doing it..
> So much flesh is around that its of no value,unless she is real stunner.
> But that mode of tackling the issue does not comply with eastern values including indian values and traditions.


In many tribes, women just wear something at their abdomen and their breasts exposed. There are less number of rapes. Can you tell me why ?

Now tell me why these women are not raped according to your logic ?


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## Gandhi G in da house

KRAIT said:


> I said the reaction of these boys and men from other social background towards this rich girls culture and their behaviour.
> 
> Is it that hard for you to understand what I am talking about ? Where the hell I am blaming women. I am telling you how these men dehumanize and start disrespecting women.
> 
> You want me to psycho-analyse the case of that Delhi girl ?
> 
> You said
> *
> "So instead of trying to change the mentality of men who rape or molest , we should change the "rich woman's behaviour" ? Is it ?"*
> 
> Tell me how you will change the mentality of the male who rape or molest. Tell me how you can avoid men to rape and change their psyche to stop taking women as objects ?
> 
> Answer this in points.
> 
> I am not blaming women dammit. I am telling you to find the reasons why a person become a rapist or molester. That's how you can tackle present situation and avoid potential rapists in making.
> 
> Its like saying stop the Maoists movement but failing to see what started. Things don't work in the way you say.
> 
> Be practical and go read some studies. I am done with you. You are just one of those kids who have never seen the ugly reality and the real India that exists. I bet you have never lived in a village for a month. If you have, you will know why people dies in villages, why there are so many rapes by upper class, why there is lack of education, why girls are killed after birth and why people die of hunger.
> 
> You just saw few facebook posts, some threads and started targeting me who really want to discuss with a mature person who has seen these things and can practically discuss the solution.
> 
> Have you ever worked for a NGO ?



You failed to address even a single of the many questions i posed as usual. Anyway just try to explain to me this statement that you made -*"Actually certain portion of girl population has indirectly helped in creating such image. Especially the rich family girls*."

What did you mean by this ?


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## Sashan

Safriz said:


> 100% responsibility on men isnt right and is a neo-feminist ideology where for them women are ok to run around with their tits haging out but a man cant send a dirty text without risking legal action under perversion and misuse of communication laws...
> Responsibility lies on both genders..
> Women shouldnt dress like sluts and men should be dogs on heat..



Again mate - I would disagree on that. If women are endowed with riches, they are bound to show them off just like men who want to wear tight clothes to show off their muscular physique or half-strip to show their six pack. This does not mean these are loose moral women and open for men to make an attempt.


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## KingMamba

KRAIT said:


> In many tribes, women just wear something at their abdomen and their breasts exposed. There are less number of rapes. Can you tell me why ?
> 
> Now tell me why these women are not raped according to your logic ?



That is the norm in that tribe so it is not viewed as obscene??


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## KRAIT

Sashan said:


> You can't claim I am making superficial suggestions if my POV does not suit you. You have your views and I have mine. I am saying no need for these NGOs and psychological mumbo jumbo to bring in change. I am saying change will happen due to the catalyst I mentioned above.


May be I am frustrated explaining Nick. Sorry if you find my post offensive. 

What you call psychological mumbo jumbo, its the studies done across the world by social scientists who are in advisory council of govt. organizations like planning commission of India.

I used to think like you but when I sat and heard about how they tackle a problem, I then come to know, what works. What are priorities and how to use the resources to get maximum output.

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## Hashshāshīn

KRAIT said:


> In many tribes, women just wear something at their abdomen and their breasts exposed. There are less number of rapes. Can you tell me why ?
> 
> Now tell me why these women are not raped according to your logic ?


Because those women live with other members of the same tribe...

I'm not saying women are responsible, but dressing with revealing clothes does 'encourage' it slightly... But I agree, it's the men who need to stop and change their mentality.

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## KRAIT

KingMamba93 said:


> That is the norm in that tribe so it is not viewed as obscene??


There you go. Norm and psyche of the men who has grown seeing this as a NORMAL behaviour.


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## Safriz

KRAIT said:


> In many tribes, women just wear something at their abdomen and their breasts exposed. There are less number of rapes. Can you tell me why ?
> 
> Now tell me why these women are not raped according to your logic ?



The reason is that tribes are isolated close knit societies..
Nobody can just vanish after the rape.
Thats why.
But same cannot be said about a large city or country.


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## funtoosh

what about all the male rapes? there are many situations where a male is force to have sex with women although he may be gay.
ps. i am not refereing to Pak or any one country, i am talking in general. someone has to fight for men too


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## Sashan

KRAIT said:


> May be I am frustrated explaining Nick. Sorry if you find my post offensive.
> 
> What you call psychological mumbo jumbo, its the studies done across the world by social scientists who are in advisory council of govt. organizations like planning commission of India.
> 
> *I used to think like you but when I sat and heard about how they tackle a problem, I then come to know, what works. What are priorities and how to use the resources to get maximum output*.



Bro - you changed your views based on your experience - my views were formulated based on my experience. I am that conservative guy who had a 180 degree change in views after getting to move along in friends' circles especially from Delhi - I think Nick has the same experience as me moving in these friends' circles. No need to get frustrated. And no need to apologize. At the end of the day, I am happy this thread atleast has some constructive discussions going on.

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## KingMamba

KRAIT said:


> There you go. Norm and psyche of the men who has grown seeing this as a NORMAL behaviour.



Well obviously that would play a part, not to mention those tribes usually have more respect for woman. In most parts of the world it is still a Patriarchal society regardless of how much equality some people preach, and some men act like scum to take advantage of that.


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## KRAIT

nick_indian said:


> You failed to address even a single of the many questions i posed as usual. Anyway just try to explain to me this statement that you made -*"Actually certain portion of girl population has indirectly helped in creating such image. Especially the rich family girls*."
> What did you mean by this ?


You guys have caused pain in my hands because of continuous typing.

Last reply, otherwise I don't think you will do your research and some study of the crimes. 

I have to repeat same thing, when a guy sees a girl drinking, loosing mind and heard about her easy to get to bed, he looses respect in for that girl. According to her, she becomes just an object to use and throw. The girl don't know it and she thinks guy's intentions are good and he wants good relation. But after she has been used, she means nothing to him anymore, as his main aim was to use her physically. 

This is one example of a partuclar type of guys and their reaction towards this type of girls. Its not the girl's mistake, but she indirectly and unintentionally changed the psyche of a guy who is still in getting mature phase and mindset.


On question for you, do you think capital punishment in first degree murder decreases crime rate than life imprisonment ? 

Use your logic. Then I will tell you the research done by people and their findings.

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## funtoosh

How long before ram Gopal Verma makes a movie


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## KRAIT

Safriz said:


> The reason is that tribes are isolated close knit societies..
> Nobody can just vanish after the rape.
> Thats why.
> But same cannot be said about a large city or country.


This is not the main cause. Again go type and search Social Conditioning. 

If you like mathematics and want to know how statistics is used, Go to University of Arizona, Tempe, there is a guy named Carlos Castillo Chavez. He has worked on many social issues. You will find it interesting. 
@nick_indian You can also search his work and if you want I can tell you other researchers who work in mathematical modeling of crimes and statistical modeling.


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## KRAIT

Sashan said:


> Bro - you changed your views based on your experience - my views were formulated based on my experience. I am that conservative guy who had a 180 degree change in views after getting to move along in friends' circles especially from Delhi - I think Nick has the same experience as me moving in these friends' circles. No need to get frustrated. And no need to apologize. At the end of the day, I am happy this thread atleast has some constructive discussions going on.


I agree but you can understand my position. Its not just nick or you, at least you guys are listening to me, there are huge number of people who aren't even thinking and just protesting and soon they will forget it.

But we can't succeed in our major goal of research which is practical application in society unless people listen to what other experts and experienced person have to say, who have dedicated years on research, case studies, interviews, criminal statistics and literature research of works of other people. Those people closely work with and often part of these organizations to tell them which strategy is working.

I have worked on epidemics and its quite interesting study, The successful media campaign in controlling HIV/AIDS in India. There is a book on it and it has become a major case study for many researchers around the world and the lesson learned from these case studies are helping in controlling AIDS in developing countries and especially countries in Africa.

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## Gandhi G in da house

KRAIT said:


> You guys have caused pain in my hands because of continuous typing.
> 
> Last reply, otherwise I don't think you will do your research and some study of the crimes.
> 
> I have to repeat same thing, when a guy sees a girl drinking, loosing mind and heard about her easy to get to bed, he looses respect in for that girl. According to her, she becomes just an object to use and throw. The girl don't know it and she thinks guy's intentions are good and he wants good relation. But after she has been used, she means nothing to him anymore, as his main aim was to use her physically.
> 
> This is one example of a partuclar type of guys and their reaction towards this type of girls. Its not the girl's mistake, but she indirectly and unintentionally changed the psyche of a guy who is still in getting mature phase and mindset.
> 
> 
> On question for you, do you think capital punishment in first degree murder decreases crime rate than life imprisonment ?
> 
> Use your logic. Then I will tell you the research done by people and their findings.



Yet most women who get raped in India are poor , those who probably have never been to a bar or a theka or had one night stands. Just like this girl in Delhi . 

*Anyway , even if i accept your POV, what according to you is the solution* ?

About your question , I don't think capital punishment decreases murders , but do you think there is a better punishment for them , especially when they have been involved in murder of "the rarest of the rare kind" ?

If you have a better idea that will reduce murders, then please suggest .

Also , i would repeat what Sashan is saying, just because our POV's are different does not mean you have to bang your head with a wall. Let's keep calm and discuss this. Even i have been typing a lot.


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## El Weirdo

Aeronaut said:


> One, more derail and you are going pink, understood?



Although I fully support banning the members who troll at this serious and sensitive subjetct ... where were YOU at when pakistanis were making fun of the poor girl , Indian judiciary and Indians in general?


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## KRAIT

nick_indian said:


> Yet most women who get raped in India are poor , those who probably have never been to a bar or a theka or had one night stands. Just like this girl in Delhi .
> *Anyway , even if i accept your POV, what according to you is the solution* ?
> About your question , I don't think capital punishment decreases murders , but do you think there is a better punishment for them , especially when they have been involved in murder of "the rarest of the rare kind" ?
> If you have a better idea , then please suggest .Also , i would repeat what Sashan is saying, just because our POV's are different does not mean you have to bang your head with a wall. Let's keep calm and discuss this. Even i have been typing a lot.


Sorry buddy. if you found it offensive. I will answer you in few minutes. Have to eat something and I need my smoke. 

Meanwhile, I have told about why poor girls are raped. I will talk about not the rarest or rare case, but the general case which you and me failed to notice. Meanwhile think, why this Delhi rape got so much coverage than other rape cases that happened in Delhi ?

I would like to know what you think so that I can reply to you accordingly.

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## Gandhi G in da house

KRAIT said:


> Sorry buddy. if you found it offensive. I will answer you in few minutes. Have to eat something and I need my smoke.
> 
> Meanwhile, I have told about why poor girls are raped. I will talk about not the rarest or rare case, but the general case which you and me failed to notice. Meanwhile think, why this Delhi rape got so much coverage than other rape cases that happened in Delhi ?
> 
> I would like to know what you think so that I can reply to you accordingly.



Don't apologise bro , didn't find it offensive at all. Just want you to keep calm as i am enjoying this discussion with you and want to know what you suggest , even if i don't agree with it in the end.

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## Safriz

KRAIT said:


> This is not the main cause. Again go type and search Social Conditioning.
> 
> If you like mathematics and want to know how statistics is used, Go to University of Arizona, Tempe, there is a guy named Carlos Castillo Chavez. He has worked on many social issues. You will find it interesting.
> @nick_indian You can also search his work and if you want I can tell you other researchers who work in mathematical modeling of crimes and statistical modeling.



I might look into that.
But south asia isnt california and their social model wont work here and here's wont work there.
The day we realize this simple fact,that day our social problems may start getting solved...

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## haviZsultan

Years ago a number of women were buried alive by a PPP politician... Zehri... in Balochistan. 
Move on to 2012... Rimsha Masih kidnapped and forcefully married off forcefully by another PPP stalwart named Mian Mithoo. 
(Funny how a lot of activists still continue to harbor sympathy for the PPP.)

I was talking about heera mandi in Lahore recently. I have a documentary film-maker friend who has made a documentary on it... basically the entire place is running with the connivance of politicians. And lets not forget what kind of people work there. Many are kidnapped women taken in childhood, others are sold by callous or poverty-stricken parents in neighboring Afghanistan... in either case politicians are helping run the trade. 

Many people will say the place has been closed down. That's what is usually said officially. A visit will reveal the truth. The place may never be closed down. 

Stopping something becomes much harder when it has political support. Rape is an issue... but it is basically part of a much wider issue... the exploitation of women in our country.

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## Safriz

I agree that men need to change and stop thinking of women as just shagbags..
On the other hand women dont need to blindly follow west and take off their clothes...
Both sides need to hold on to their eastern values.
You can remain profoundly eastern and still progress.
I see sikhs and hindus in UK still wearing sarhii and turbans and doing well good...


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## KRAIT

Safriz said:


> I might look into that.
> But south asia isnt california and their social model wont work here and here's wont work there.
> The day we realize this simple fact,that day our social problems may start getting solved...


I know buddy. I just want to tell you how one studies a society and determine the variables involved and the parameters, some which affect the most while some which have little effect.

In these studies one can find what affect the number of crimes and what affect stability of the system. 

In these studies you learn what factors one should focus on for finding an equilibrium and what makes an unstable system.

You will be surprised to see how mathematical modeling, statistical modeling has helped in understanding and predicting, terrorist attacks, growth of extremism, growing crime rate, epidemics spread, solution of disputes.

Let me cite you an example. A well known researcher in India who works in JNU, presented a research paper in a conference on modeling of disputes and analysis. It was attended by officials from Indian Railways. After the presentation, they came to him and explained that they are now having problems with workers and they need his help in determining which strategy will work for reaching resolution of disputes and reduce the instability among the workers.

Similarly many cases are there where the census takers or case studies people who collect data are guided by the researcher to ask the major questions and corresponding data that has to be collected so that the Modeling people don't face any shortage of data.


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## funtoosh

Safriz said:


> I agree that men need to change and stop thinking of women as just shagbags..
> On the other hand women dont need to blindly follow west and take off their clothes...
> Both sides need to hold on to their eastern values.
> You can remain profoundly eastern and still progress.
> I see sikhs and hindus in UK still wearing sarhii and turbans and doing well good...



saris have nothing to do with hinduism just as trousers have nothing to do with christianity

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## funtoosh

the important thing is that sex should be made liberal. 
second, the female has to be given a better place in socity and this has to come from within. the dirt of india resides in its people. 
the reason rapes are happening is becauase of sex ratio. 
if sex ratio is made ok and if sex is liberal rapes will no happen. at violent rapes wont happen .
the indian male is desperate . the reason is because he is taught that sex is something immoral and womeon and men meeting is leads only to sex. this has to stop
(i have also been desperate. i used to look at women and their boobs moving up and down as they walked. I stare at a good looking woman somtimes and now I feel ashamed that I did it. I do it as it arouses some feeling in me. maybe its just carnal. however we live in a society and not in a jungle. so we have to learn to curb our hormones.)
I hope God gives us grace.


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## KRAIT

haviZsultan said:


> Years ago a number of women were buried alive by a PPP politician... Zehri... in Balochistan.
> Move on to 2012... Rimsha Masih kidnapped and forcefully married off forcefully by another PPP stalwart named Mian Mithoo.
> (Funny how a lot of activists still continue to harbor sympathy for the PPP.)
> 
> I was talking about heera mandi in Lahore recently. I have a documentary film-maker friend who has made a documentary on it... basically the entire place is running with the connivance of politicians. And lets not forget what kind of people work there. Many are kidnapped women taken in childhood, others are sold by callous or poverty-stricken parents in neighboring Afghanistan... in either case politicians are helping run the trade.
> 
> Many people will say the place has been closed down. That's what is usually said officially. A visit will reveal the truth. The place may never be closed down.
> 
> Stopping something becomes much harder when it has political support. Rape is an issue... but it is basically part of a much wider issue... the exploitation of women in our country.


Good post. He has told you the reality. I said about kidnapped girl forced into prostitution and you just provided an example.

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## utraash

Gandalf said:


> That's Talibunni Style.



rape is human style.......... n executing the culprits become talibani style....

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## KRAIT

nick_indian said:


> Don't apologise bro , didn't find it offensive at all. Just want you to keep calm as i am enjoying this discussion with you and want to know what you suggest , even if i don't agree with it in the end.


Read post 103. Its same in many areas in India.

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## Babbar-Khalsa

Gandalf said:


> Didn't Pakistanis claim there are 0 rapes in Pakistan.



This is not the right question to ask at this moment. Shutup for a while.

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## Safriz

funtoosh said:


> saris have nothing to do with hinduism just as trousers have nothing to do with christianity



Get rid of your inferiority complex and be proud of your traditions and your religion...
You Indians do need to get these two things right..

I will comment no more on this matter.


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## Safriz

Damini the rape victim..






Picture from FB..so not authentic


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## wakapdf

@KRAIT @acid rain @samantk @Ayush Pandey and other Indian members that i forgot to mention: BRAVO!  Thanks for not trolling  and posting sensibly on such sensitive issue

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## Gandhi G in da house

KRAIT said:


> Read post 103. Its same in many areas in India.



He explained the situation in Pakistan in 103 post which is true for India aslo. I wanted your POV on how to sort out the problems that you and i were discussing the previous posts .



Safriz said:


> *Get rid of your inferiority complex and be proud of your traditions and your religion*...
> You Indians do need to get these two things right..
> 
> I will comment no more on this matter.



This is a figment of your imagination. What made you think so ? Most women in india still wear Sarees and Salwar kameez.

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## wakapdf

@nick_indian : How could i forget you buddy, thank you as well

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## KRAIT

nick_indian said:


> He explained the situation in Pakistan in 103 post which is true for India aslo. I wanted your POV on how to sort out the problems that you and i were discussing the previous posts .
> This is a figment of your imagination. What made you think so ? Most women in india still wear Sarees and Salwar kameez.


Remind me tomorrow. I will explain in detail. Sorry yaar, too tired of Rape cases. 

Will also tell you new things tried to spread awareness and creating map of cities to identify and rectify the crime prone region for girls.

Also, the social changes need to be made at grass root level.

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## Ayush

KRAIT said:


> Start where one sees the signs of a potential rapist. Most of them are eve teasers. Beat the cr@p out of them. Just shout this guy is eve teasing, if many agrees, beat him and then call police.
> 
> There was a good campaign started in my city. Operation Garima (Pride). Any person who eve teases or make vulgar calls, harasses a girl, all she has to do is file the report and the guy will be arrested and keep in jail for at least one day. None bailable charges.
> 
> It changed a lot. Most guys who eve tease are college going. Any criminal record will ruin their career as a professional in any company. So it delivered good result. A guys once called my fren couple of times, she told me. I know he won't disclose his name or place so I played a trick.
> 
> I told him that I will take this number and my FREN to police station and file an FIR. After an FIR, one an report to the mobile company to reveal the owner of the sim and may be the location too. I told him I will get your name and every info and will call your parent to Police stations. He never called again,
> 
> It works guys. Hurt where it hurts the most. If you see a guy eve teasing on bike or car, note his bike/car number, take a pic of his from your camera phone and post it on FB.



that was in jaipur right?i heard this-
Operation Garima to be relaunched - Times Of India

a positive news finally.

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## joekrish

samantk said:


> The same is in India "innocent until proven guilty"... Some bastards deserve the harshest punishment, if its is not explicit in Islam the law should me made explicit... Beheading, would love to see their heads rolling...



Beheading as a punishment would be barbaric and would not justify the crime commited, I would advocate 
Cauterization along with life imprisonment.


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## airmarshal

nick_indian said:


> Pure and unadulterated BS.
> 
> Just type rape in Pakistan on Google and see the results.



Ok thank you for letting me know, mindless Indian. Now deal with your problem.


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## funtoosh

Safriz said:


> Get rid of your inferiority complex and be proud of your traditions and your religion...
> You Indians do need to get these two things right..
> 
> I will comment no more on this matter.


Are you crazy? Don't you know difference between culture and religion. Sari is an Indian dress. In malaysia which is Islamic country they wear a particle kind of unisex clothing, so is that Islamic clothing? Baath kart a hai

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## Vassnti

KRAIT said:


> On question for you, do you think capital punishment in first degree murder decreases crime rate than life imprisonment ?
> 
> Use your logic. Then I will tell you the research done by people and their findings.



Nope but capital punishment is proven to reduce recidivism. 

on topic

Its not an Indian problem or a particular ethnic group or a culture or the way women drink, dress, talk or travel. 

Its *can i get away with *it. McKibbin's study 30% of men would comit rape and they are just the ones that would admit it. 

The only way to reduce the frequency of rape is increase the chance of a negative outcome for the offender. You need police that regard sexual assault as a serious crime, hospitals that know how to collect evidence, courts that prosecute the offender not the victim and a sentence that is a deterrent not a slap on the wrist. 




> McKibbin et al. (2008) argue that there may be several different types of rapists or rape strategies. One is rape by disadvantaged men who cannot get sex otherwise. Another is "specialized rapists" who are more sexually aroused from rape than from consensual sex. A third type is opportunistic rapists who switches between forced and consensual sex depending on circumstances. A fourth type is psychopathic rapists. A fifth type is partner rape due to sperm competition when the male suspects or knows that the female has had sex with another male. There are varying degrees of empirical support for the existence of each of these types. More generally they mention research finding that at least one-third of males "admit they would rape under specific conditions" and that other surveys find that many men[quantify] state having coercive sexual fantasies. They, as have others, "propose that rape is a conditional strategy that may potentially be deployed by any man."



McKibbin, W. F.; Shackelford, T. K.; Goetz, A. T.; Starratt, V. G. (2008). "Why do men rape? An evolutionary psychological perspective". Review of General Psychology

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## KRAIT

@Vassnti Finally someone to talk and explain psychology ? Are you in research.

BTW in research it has shown that capital punishment doesn't make a major difference, of course it affects more than life imprisonment but the gap is too small.

As for type of rapists you explained, we can discuss, how a person becomes a particular type of rapist 

Its not a particular problem of a region ethnic etc. but each region , ethnic, culture has its own factors which results in rape. 

Like in rural India, many rapes are attributed to take revenge or dishonor a lower caste community by the upper caste men. So caste here plays a important role. The children of upper caste grows in an environment where they see that lower caste women are not respected and can be dishonored if a person from lower caste commits crime against upper caste.

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## Vassnti

KRAIT said:


> @Vassnti Finally someone to talk and explain psychology ? Are you in research ?
> 
> BTW in research it has shown that capital punishment doesn't make a major difference, of course it affects more than life imprisonment but the gap is too small.
> 
> As for type of rapists you explained, we can discuss, how a person becomes a particular type of rapist
> 
> Its not a particular problem of a region ethnic etc. but each region , ethnic, culture has its own factors which results in rape.
> 
> Like in rural India, many rapes are attributed to take revenge or dishonor a lower caste community by the upper caste men. So caste here plays a important role. The children of upper caste grows in an environment where they see that lower caste women are not respected and can be dishonored if a person from lower caste commits crime against upper caste.



Research days are behind me too much like hard work and most of that was medical not psychology. A few years of Psych but i would only consider myself an informed layman but ill do my best to contribute, just dont expect brilliance. 

One point you assume western scociety doesnt have caste. Ok we might not have one directly atibuted to hereditary but western society can be just as structured. Is it a caste matter when the head of a bank rapes a hotel cleaner?
The rich white guy caste v's the brown cleaner caste. How would that be different from say a Brahman and a Dalti?

How does the risk level change in an unequal relation is the land lord less likley to be arrested, is the lower class girl even going to try and go to the police to tell them the local factory owner raped her?

As for how does one become an Opportunistic Rapist? How does some one become an ID driven impulsive personality centered on personal gratification at the expense of others sounds flippant but Mommy didnt hug them enough?



> The mother of the rapists is usually described as having been in the rapists childhood, rejecting, excessively controlling, dominant, punitive, overprotective and seductive. The father is usually described as uninvolved, aloof, distant, absent or passive but occasionally punitive and cruel. Some researchers suggest that in the case of the sex offender parental cruelly inconsistency of discipline envy and sexual frustration as well as over stimulation or seduction are the principle factors that influence the rapist&#8217;s personality and criminal behavior.
> 
> The rapist may have experienced parental seductiveness in childhood. Usually from his mother this may have ranged from covert seductive behavior to actual sexual involvement. A history of early prolonged bed sharing with a sibling or parent may have sensitized the rapist unduly to sexual stimulation during childhood.
> 
> The professional literature suggests that parental rejection domination, cruelty and seductiveness are important factors in the early life of the rapists. During childhood mild to moderate social maladjustments of the future rapist may be evidenced in fighting temper tantrums, truancy and stealing.



Sexual Offender - Occult and Organized Crime Research Center

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## my2cents

Aeronaut said:


> I, don't know why these mad dingos refuse to accept rape as a social evil which has nothing to do with geography and culture. If it happens in samoa, its wrong, if it happens in Somalia its wrong, if it happens in the US its wrong, if happens in India and Pakistan its exactly wrong!
> 
> Problem with our S.Asian men [some] is that they think its "manly" to rape someone, therefore its acceptable and its something to be proud of. I, want to see a full Sharia'a court sitting for Rapists and Acid attackers....just hang them!



How does sharia's court work in case of rape?? Do the victims have to produce 3 witnesses to her crime? If she does not produce witnesses, then will she be punished? 

In India rapists rarely get capital punishment....they just do jail term and let go. Only if they commit murder then they get maximum punishment.


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## KRAIT

@Vassnti See, I am not saying the crime is different but the reason behind these crimes and its nature will vary in every case. 

In cities, sexual harassment is something many offices have. One can trace it back to seniority of a man over a woman starting taking her as a woman he can control. He may flirt or indulge in harassment especially when the woman doesn't reciprocate his advances. But this is an environment built over the period of time that will push that bank officer to rape his employee. The individual' personality, characteristics, mental state along with the social environment, all are taken into context to understand a crime. 

Similarly a brahmin raping a dalit based on caste can be analogous to a White man who consider himself from superior race may rape a woman of inferior race according to him. So just like I said in case of caste, a child grows up in an environment where even the women from his race look down upon woman of other race. Behavior of men from superior race towards other women will also affect the psyche of the child. 

Let me cite an example in case of racial hatred. Even Germans were persecuting Jews, the children saw their parents indulged in racial oppression, hate speech, labeling of Jews etc. and they were also exposed to media and the entire society following the same. So even the children started hating Jews. They follow and behave in the same way they see their elders. 

Now, the psychology of a person turning into rapist. What you have cited is classic case of serial rapists and even serial killers being researched in US especially. One of the serial rapists used to see her mother being indulged with many men right next room, saw her having intercourse and also she used to lock him up in the closet and beat often. many children who are abused sexually generally become insensitive towards sex and mimic the same behavior of the molester who used them. 

In case of the child you talked about who is strictly controlled by his mother, beaten up and abused with a father figure who didn't take care of him, he might snap in case of rejection for women, failed relationship (which is high in these cases) or cheating by his companion, and he will take his anger towards womanhood or his mother and past woman he had, on the surrogates. 

In case of BTK killer, he didn't even rape women, he even hanged a 12 year old girl and semen was found near her. It excited him. Similarly, Ted Bundy was too much involved in sexual intercourse and masturbation and it affected him to the extent that he lost control and pick women to rape them. He even revisited the site and often have intercourse with dead woman, Necrophilia is the term. Same was the case with Green River killer.

I don't accept the fact that children who sleep with their siblings or mother will develop sexual tendencies as a factor that applies everywhere. It may happen in certain regions, but may be completely absent or quite low. It depends on society and the exposure to the fact that they saw news about mother-son, sister-brother relationship which is weird for them but adolescent may not understand this change. Now this notion will be out rightly rejected by many people because in their society they didn't see or heard of such cases and they can't accept it, and even if they witness they will take it as an isolated, unique case which occurs one in a million. Whereas those who have read about criminal psychology and the research you have cited, they have taken into account various such cases and they have come to this conclusion by detailed research. 

So, every region has its own factors that influence the child to grow and turn out as a rapist. Also psychopaths, sociopaths etc. can be spotted earlier and their parents can take of their mental condition. 

According to research, genetics, family environment, social environment (violent surroundings, racial discrimination, cast system, ultra conservatism, inequality among gender,) media etc. all play a major role in creating a rapist. 

Ted Bundy, serial rapist and killer said, "We are your sons, your husbands and we are everywhere".

Problem with many communities is that they are reactive towards crime instead of understanding the origins of crime. Unless and until one doesn't observe the social dynamics, psychology of individual and community, etc. he/she won't be able to reduce the crime.

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## tarrar

Islamic Laws are the only solution to solve all problems in Pakistan. Western Law which helps the criminals, terrorists, corrupt politicians & not to mention the massively corrupt Human Right group who only help the culprits are destruction to any Muslim country.

So Islamic Laws are the true solution for Pakistan but they need to be original not fake which is going to made up & run by corrupt Molvis favoring themselves only or their particular sect only. The Islamic Laws needs to made or set up by only highly Islamic educated Imams.


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## nair

Well Another rape thread..... Open the news paper... filled with rape & related news.... Open the channels... Rape and rape related news and chat shows....Open social network.... end up discussing rapes.... Login PDF end up discussing rape as well.... I guess we as a nation going thru a transition period..... Probably after 1947 we got in to an attitude... "chaltha hein" (lets take emergency period as an exception)..... We have been tolerating what ever pushed upon us for a long time..... But i guess time has come to get rid of that chaltha hein attitude..... You can see the same happening in this year and last year.... Earlier agitation used to be politically motivated.... but the young population of india hardly have political affiliation...... All they asking is a simple thing.... Allow to live in a peaceful manner.... We also have a habit of blaming everything on our netas and govt.... most of the time it is appropriate..... but as an individuals we need to introspect and look at ourselves are we doing the right thing.... What are we doing as a citizen to stop the crime....I am sure every one of us might have come across at least once where in a girl/women has been harassed... how did we respond to that situation????... Most of the time the crime can be stopped even before it committed....... I feel happy to see the change in attitude in ourselves we started responding... and responding in the right way.... if we keep doing this...... I am sure we will change ourselves as a nation... and will will force our netas to change their attitude..... 

Social media and Media as a whole need to be congratulated for helping this cause...

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## Silverblaze

Learn something from Singapore and its not about religion. In Saudi Arabia this also takes place. If it does not happen in public, it happens domestically.

Women hold the key, they have to break free by pressuring govts constantly.

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## Gandhi G in da house

airmarshal said:


> Ok thank you for letting me know, mindless Indian. Now deal with your problem.



 Don't claim BS when you know you will be easily called out on it . And try to debate without getting personal , try being civilised. I know it's hard, but give it a shot.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Is there anybody who thinks legalizing and regulating prostitution could help ?


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## KRAIT

nick_indian said:


> Is there anybody who thinks legalizing and regulating prostitution could help ?


If you find one, call him idiot from my side. Reason why it won't work is already explained by me.


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## Lahorie

I commend the bold and powerful stand-up of Indian citizens against rape of innocent women & pressure on authorities for Capital Punishment, an Islamic law ridiculed since long.


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## SamantK

joekrish said:


> Beheading as a punishment would be barbaric and would not justify the crime commited, I would advocate
> Cauterization along with life imprisonment.



I agree that the justification is poor for that kind of punishment. However, the rise of such acts is turning out to be barbaric themselves, it needs to be stopped. We are not making a strong enough statement.

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## Sashan

KRAIT said:


> If you find one, call him idiot from my side. Reason why it won't work is already explained by me.



Krait - bro - in the midst of rational behavior in you, why do I find that "My way or highway" behavior as well?

I used to interact with a DSP of prostitution wing who was operating in the suburbs of Chennai and used to mention the reason why the police tolerated prostitution in Mahabalipuram is because they want to avoid molestations and in rare cases prostitution as well in Chennai.(I am talking about 1997-1998 timeframe)

Would you call the Chennai police idiots?


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## KRAIT

Sashan said:


> Krait - bro - in the midst of rational behavior in you, why do I find that "My way or highway" behavior as well?


Hahahaha.....sorry yaar, Actually I have seen same solutions presented by many people and then there is the reality. the ugly side of how this legalization will push these criminals to force more girls and women into prostitution.

Problem is many solutions presented by guys are either same old rhetoric or without any backing from ground reality, the actual situation and facts and statistics related to it.

Rescued from Mumbai Brothels - Part 1 - YouTube

Land of Missing Children: Unreported World - YouTube


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## ice_man

pakistan is ahead in this way 

Mukhtaran Bibi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shahzeb Khan&#8217;s murder: Police arrest prime suspect&#8217;s security guard &#8211; The Express Tribune

pakistan is much moe aware of gang rape issues and acts better than india thank god for that. 


gang rape is the most evilest of acts the people commiting it should be hung with piano wires!


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## BATMAN

International reports says bharat is dangerous for women, not limited to rape.

I stand witness on this forum how bharti media behaves when Pakistan foreign minister visit bharat, even you can see it on the faces of their politicians and state officials.

On this forum also, bharti posters always behave like they have never seen a woman, in there life.

Sikhs are better... at least they do not rape.


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## nair

BATMAN said:


> International reports says bharat is dangerous for women, not limited to rape.
> 
> I stand witness on this forum how bharti media behaves when Pakistan foreign minister visit bharat, even you can see it on the faces of their politicians and state officials.
> 
> On this forum also, bharti posters always behave like they have never seen a woman, in there life.
> 
> Sikhs are better... at least they do not rape.



Well Thats the way you look at.... Its your perception.....You sounds like entire india is perverted...Its not true.... But there are lot of them in the category you mentioned....

I acknowledge the sarcasm....and i accept it.... I also take other trollers trying to malign the name of india in this grave issue.... If indians take this criticism/sarcasm and use that khunnas on those mad idiots who try to do such crimes.... 

The last thing we should do is living in denial..... We have enough examples right infront of us on what happens when u live in denial....


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## SamantK

ice_man said:


> pakistan is ahead in this way
> 
> Mukhtaran Bibi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Shahzeb Khan&#8217;s murder: Police arrest prime suspect&#8217;s security guard &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> pakistan is much moe aware of gang rape issues and acts better than india thank god for that.
> 
> 
> gang rape is the most evilest of acts the people commiting it should be hung with piano wires!





BATMAN said:


> International reports says bharat is dangerous for women, not limited to rape.
> 
> I stand witness on this forum how bharti media behaves when Pakistan foreign minister visit bharat, even you can see it on the faces of their politicians and state officials.
> 
> On this forum also, bharti posters always behave like they have never seen a woman, in there life.
> 
> Sikhs are better... at least they do not rape.



Such comments on a thread about gang rape in Pakistan, shows you guys are living in a lala land.. 

Carry on in that fantabulous society where these evils are neither present nor, more possibly, visible.


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## KRAIT

Well we discuss constructively and these idiots start bashing India. Who was last night thanking us for constructive discussion on this topic ? 

Tell him this is how Pakistanis derive pleasure from every rape done in India.

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## nair

KRAIT said:


> Well we discuss constructively and these idiots start bashing India. Who was last night thanking us for constructive discussion on this topic ?
> 
> Tell him this is how Pakistanis derive pleasure from every rape done in India.




Let them have the pleasure on this issue...... Lets not get bogged down by few trollers....and give in to their troll fest..... If it makes them happy let them be.... Lets get back to discuss the issue constructively....


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## iPhone

I think the use of the word 'rape' should be minimized on this forum and shouldn't be used at all in topics. I feel it comes across as dirty and ****** and gives the same impression of this site.


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## airmarshal

Indians dont get it and start playing India-Pakistan match even on this sensitive issue. 

When I see Indian media - print, TV and movies, it invites rape. The way women are presented on the media is like an object. The only purpose of that object is to have sex with it. 

My point is that I can imagine Indian society not very different from Pakistani society. So if there are publications like FHM, ads about condoms with scantily dressed woman walking into the bedroom, what is an average Indian mind thinking about woman? 

Being an outsider, my point of view might be totally irrelevant. But what I m trying to say is that media is inviting free sex, whereas social norms dont allow such things as India generally is a conservative society. So the vent to that frustration is rise in cases of rape. 

I hope my post does not start an India Pakistan finger pointing. 

Its a great tragedy and I feel for the girl and her family.


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## Markus

airmarshal said:


> Indians dont get it and start playing India-Pakistan match even on this sensitive issue.
> 
> When I see Indian media - print, TV and movies, it invites rape. The way women are presented on the media is like an object. The only purpose of that object is to have sex with it.
> 
> My point is that I can imagine Indian society not very different from Pakistani society. So if there are publications like FHM, ads about condoms with scantily dressed woman walking into the bedroom, what is an average Indian mind thinking about woman?
> 
> Being an outsider, my point of view might be totally irrelevant. But what I m trying to say is that media is inviting free sex, whereas social norms dont allow such things as India generally is a conservative society. So the vent to that frustration is rise in cases of rape.
> 
> I hope my post does not start an India Pakistan finger pointing.
> 
> Its a great tragedy and I feel for the girl and her family.



Its a very complex case. Maybe media is responsible for some part of the mess but very difficult to conclude and point fingers.

We need collective cleansing of people's minds.


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## KRAIT

Markus said:


> Its a very complex case. Maybe media is responsible for some part of the mess but very difficult to conclude and point fingers.
> We need collective cleansing of people's minds.


Buddy, we have seen this solution dozens of time. We all know this. For every crime or problem in the world, we have to cleanse the mind of people. 

But it will be more helpful if you can be more specific and give suggestions which can be practically used.


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## Hyde

That was a very shocking and brutal incident. May the rapists never get a sigh of peace

Rest in Peace


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## KRAIT

airmarshal said:


> Indians dont get it and start playing India-Pakistan match even on this sensitive issue.
> When I see Indian media - print, TV and movies, it invites rape. The way women are presented on the media is like an object. The only purpose of that object is to have sex with it.
> My point is that I can imagine Indian society not very different from Pakistani society. So if there are publications like FHM, ads about condoms with scantily dressed woman walking into the bedroom, what is an average Indian mind thinking about woman?
> Being an outsider, my point of view might be totally irrelevant. But what I m trying to say is that media is inviting free sex, whereas social norms dont allow such things as India generally is a conservative society. So the vent to that frustration is rise in cases of rape.
> I hope my post does not start an India Pakistan finger pointing.
> Its a great tragedy and I feel for the girl and her family.


Kindly go through the thread before posting this. Are there too many rapes in Western countries where women are in bikinis on beach and swimming pool. They have booming **** industries and they are sold in stores. They show sex on TV serials and movies. 

So before you put all blame on women, go back and read about what affects men psyche and why men rape women. A guy Vassnti has told the reasons with backing from Research articles, type of rapists, and I have discussed what is the case with Indian society. 

Unless you inform yourself, you might not understand the real reasons the real reasons.

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## Ayush

airmarshal said:


> Indians dont get it and start playing India-Pakistan match even on this sensitive issue.
> 
> When I see Indian media - print, TV and movies, it invites rape. The way women are presented on the media is like an object. The only purpose of that object is to have sex with it.
> 
> My point is that I can imagine Indian society not very different from Pakistani society. So if there are publications like FHM, ads about condoms with scantily dressed woman walking into the bedroom, what is an average Indian mind thinking about woman?
> 
> Being an outsider, my point of view might be totally irrelevant. But what I m trying to say is that media is inviting free sex, whereas social norms dont allow such things as India generally is a conservative society. So the vent to that frustration is rise in cases of rape.
> 
> I hope my post does not start an India Pakistan finger pointing.
> 
> Its a great tragedy and I feel for the girl and her family.



well,if this is true,then america should be the king of rapes.
**** industry,playboy magazines,bikini babes etc. u find everything there.
it is about mentality,not the ads.
get your facts right.


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## Sashan

KRAIT said:


> Hahahaha.....sorry yaar, Actually I have seen same solutions presented by many people and then there is the reality. the ugly side of how this legalization will push these criminals to force more girls and women into prostitution.
> 
> Problem is many solutions presented by guys are either same old rhetoric or without any backing from ground reality, the actual situation and facts and statistics related to it.
> 
> Rescued from Mumbai Brothels - Part 1 - YouTube
> 
> Land of Missing Children: Unreported World - YouTube



No worries. But I want to point to the alternate opinions. Even the Supreme Court has suggested legalizing it to avoid trafficking of women. 

Legalise prostitution if you can't curb it: SC to Centre - Indian Express

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## KRAIT

Sashan said:


> No worries. But i want you to point to the alternate opinions. Even the Supreme Court has suggested legalizing it to avoid trafficking of women.
> 
> Legalise prostitution if you can't curb it: SC to Centre - Indian Express


Do it but before that ensure there are no child abduction and forced sex slavery. 

Legalization will increase the demand as men who didn't use to go because of fear of law, they will start going. Due to illegal status, one can't easily find prostitutes unless he gets it from Word of Mouth communication or if an area which is known for prostitution. Legalizing it will make commercial sex parlours with ads and stickers stuck to people's car. 

Just imagine how it will affect the minds of lower class men who can't afford them. 

See, you have to look at all aspects, possible increase in related crimes, effect on society and psychology of men, economic aspect etc.

Lets see what we find as possible measures to be taken along with legalization of prostitution. I personally feel, just legalizing it will create more problem.

@Vassnti Kindly give your inputs too.


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## Sashan

KRAIT said:


> Do it but before that ensure there are no child abduction and forced sex slavery.
> 
> Legalization will increase the demand as men who didn't use to go because of fear of law, they will start going. Due to illegal status, one can't easily find prostitutes unless he gets it from Word of Mouth communication or if an area which is known for prostitution. Legalizing it will make commercial sex parlours with ads and stickers stuck to people's car.
> 
> Just imagine how it will affect the minds of lower class men who can't afford them.
> 
> See, you have to look at all aspects, possible increase in related crimes, effect on society and psychology of men, economic aspect etc.
> 
> Lets see what we find as possible measures to be taken along with legalization of prostitution. I personally feel, just legalizing it will create more problem.
> 
> @Vassnti Kindly give your inputs too.




What you are saying is the difference between prohibition of moonshine and allowing it. Each of the approaches are laced with pros and cons - In illegal prostitution the organized crime brokers are involved under the pretext of giving protection to these women. If legalized, they are on their own and not dependent on anyone. And crimes can be prevented as well apart from these women being persecuted for their trade(while them getting into this trade itself is a horrible thing for them) . For example, there are couple of brothels in Nevada - not in Las Vegas where prostitution is legal but a place elswhere - Mustang Ranch and Chicken Ranch - These two brothels have girls to fulfil the different fetishes of men and the law makers claim that it has avoided various crimes especially providing an outlet for the psychos out there.(these men have weird fetishes which they can't fulfil even when they have their own women) 

In summary, what I am saying is do not discount alternate opinions.


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## airmarshal

Ayush Pandey said:


> well,if this is true,then america should be the king of rapes.
> **** industry,playboy magazines,bikini babes etc. u find everything there.
> it is about mentality,not the ads.
> get your facts right.



America is a totally different society than India. Rapes do happen in US too. There are other sex related crimes here much worse than India or any other country which still have family values.



KRAIT said:


> Kindly go through the thread before posting this. Are there too many rapes in Western countries where women are in bikinis on beach and swimming pool. They have booming **** industries and they are sold in stores. They show sex on TV serials and movies.
> 
> So before you put all blame on women, go back and read about what affects men psyche and why men rape women. A guy Vassnti has told the reasons with backing from Research articles, type of rapists, and I have discussed what is the case with Indian society.
> 
> Unless you inform yourself, you might not understand the real reasons the real reasons.



I have said it already I m an outsider. Kindly read my post again.


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## LeGenD

Leader said:


> Im really happy to see that indian youth is standing up for basic emancipation of women that has been denied over centuries to the women of subcontinent, surely this is an example that Pakistani youth should also follow...
> 
> and it must be above political and class affiliations, we should unit for our rights, our basic rights yar...basic !!
> 
> I am sick of this retard male chauvinist mentality...
> 
> and I must say the girls must develop leadership qualities in themselves, for the very fact that this is about them and their rights, it should be led by them, because at the end of the day its about them....
> 
> I pledge to my country's youthful females, please stand up, be united, this is the era of social networking, organize yourself into a strong civil society, stand up... why cannot a group of female doctors, nurses, lawyers, educationists, media persons, teachers, students, health workers, business women, and professional ladies from all walks of life, organize a platform for themselves and fight for any injustice against women?
> 
> be a member of one organization and take a united front... you would have those who can fight legal battle, propaganda battle at social networking sites, media battles, financial fight,..... just be organized for your rights...
> 
> 
> There is no other way to get out of this mess !!


And what is the expected outcome of such a platform? Crimes against women will decline?

What about crimes against male gender? How these can be minimized?

We should not vouch for enormous competition between males and females in Pakistan under the banner of civil rights and such. Their is no need to introduce special laws just to protect women.

However, we need is a gender-nuetral and effective law and order system based on Islamic principles to minimize crimes against both genders in our country. However, this is only possible if current corrupt leadership system is replaced with a decent corruption-free leadership system (established on the basis of merit and Islamic principles).

We shouldn't blindly follow Western models to solve our problems. They may not necessarily work in our country and history already supports my point of view on this matter.


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## Leader

LeGenD said:


> And what is the expected outcome of such a platform? Crimes against women will decline?
> 
> What about crimes against male gender? How these can be minimized?
> 
> We should not vouch for enormous competition between males and females in Pakistan under the banner of civil rights and such. Their is no need to introduce special laws just to protect women.
> 
> However, we need is a gender-nuetral and effective law and order system based on Islamic principles to minimize crimes against both genders in our country. However, this is only possible if current corrupt leadership system is replaced with a decent corruption-free leadership system (established on the basis of merit and Islamic principles).
> 
> We shouldn't blindly follow Western models to solve our problems. They may not necessarily work in our country and history already supports my point of view on this matter.



Jesus Christ.... this is the mindset that I was talking about !!!


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## Markus

KRAIT said:


> Buddy, we have seen this solution dozens of time. We all know this. For every crime or problem in the world, we have to cleanse the mind of people.
> 
> But it will be more helpful if you can be more specific and give suggestions which can be practically used.



1). Ban sexually explicit material in TV and movies. 
2). Expel MPs/MLAs with criminal records.
3). Hang some of the rapists and ostracize their family members.
4). Stop blindly following the Western culture and become more religious.

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## Gentle Typhoon

What about male rights? Women in sub-continent are dominant and do abuse men regularly. We witness so many fake allegations of molestation, rape and dowry. I have seen girl who ruined life of 55yr old pious men. So many desi girls cheat expat Indo-Pak boys just to get Visa on their passport. Parents from abroad come to sub-continent in hope of finding educated, down to earth desi girl, but they get shock of their life when girl files for divorce after landing on foreign soil.

I feel sad for victim's of rape, but at same time I feel bad when a teenage boy is sexually abused or families are shattered by chaal-baaz girls.

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## Azazel

> 1). Ban sexually explicit material in TV and movies.



We are already doing it.



> 2). Expel MPs/MLAs with criminal records.



Nice idea.Now,How do you propose to do it??



> 3). Hang some of the rapists and *ostracize their family members.*



That's just medieval mentality.



> 4). Stop blindly following the Western culture and become more religious.



Since when did being religious ever prevented crimes.In fact,religion only exacerbate the intensity of crimes.


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## Vassnti

KRAIT said:


> Just imagine how it will affect the minds of lower class men who can't afford them.
> 
> See, you have to look at all aspects, possible increase in related crimes, effect on society and psychology of men, economic aspect etc.
> 
> Lets see what we find as possible measures to be taken along with legalization of prostitution. I personally feel, just legalizing it will create more problem.
> 
> @Vassnti Kindly give your inputs too.



Been away a few days, the legalisiation of prostitution olny eliminates a small category of potentials rapists. 

If you look at the types: Disadvantaged men, the ugly the poor the socially unattractive, yes they might not afford a legal service so though it may eliminate some not all.
The specialised rapist and high mating effort types however derive at least some of their motivation from the violence of the act some thing they arent going to get from "most" legalised prostitution services.
The opportunistic rapist doesnt by definition plan ahead but reacts to an opportunity again would probably not going to be affected.
Legal prostitution exist in many countries, it does more to prevent violence against prostitutes than it does to prevent rape.

As for the "lets get religious" and it will fix every thing 

Catholic sex abuse cases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The more power to the religion the less risk of exposure or punishment, you simply create a pool of untouchables (in the legal not caste sense ) considering my earlier post showing the research that 30% of men are potential rapists what do you think happens when they can rape with immpunity?

Though i use the Catholic Church as an example you can bet any where Priests have power the same thing happens.

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## Sashan

Vassnti said:


> Been away a few days, the legalisiation of prostitution olny eliminates a small category of potentials rapists.
> 
> If you look at the types: Disadvantaged men, the ugly the poor the socially unattractive, yes they might not afford a legal service so though it may eliminate some not all.
> *The specialised rapist and high mating effort types however derive at least some of their motivation from the violence of the act some thing they arent going to get from "most" legalised prostitution services.*
> The opportunistic rapist doesnt by definition plan ahead but reacts to an opportunity again would probably not going to be affected.
> Legal prostitution exist in many countries, it does more to prevent violence against prostitutes than it does to prevent rape.
> 
> As for the "lets get religious" and it will fix every thing
> 
> Catholic sex abuse cases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The more power to the religion the less risk of exposure or punishment, you simply create a pool of untouchables (in the legal not caste sense ) considering my earlier post showing the research that 30% of men are potential rapists what do you think happens when they can rape with immpunity?
> 
> Though i use the Catholic Church as an example you can bet any where Priests have power the same thing happens.



The highlighted portion is nothing but fetishes - There are brothels which can satisfy most fetishes like the ones in Nevada - Chicken Ranch and Mustang Ranch. So legalizing prostitution helps. As for the disadvantaged men there are prostitutes available with different price ranges.


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