# Pakistan Civil Aviation | Information & News.



## Jango

All the info regarding PIA can be posted here.


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## Jango

Installation of brand new Thales RealitySeven B777 Full Flight Simulator purchased by PIA has begun at PIA Training Centre (PTC) in Karachi.

Here's a set of photos sent by First Officer Aroosh Naqvi (forum member AN). The photos show PIA Boeing 777 full flight simulator being installed at PTC in Karachi.
















In June 2009, PIA signed an agreement with Thales for the purchase of a new Boeing 777-300ER Full Flight Simulator (FFS) Level D and associated options.

Thales&#8217;s new RealitySeven FFS is based on a modular design, with a common core element independent of the aircraft type. Different aircraft modules can effectively be &#8216;swapped&#8217; out, as a customer&#8217;s fleet or training business needs change, without the entire simulator needing to be replaced and without the need for further investment.

For further details visit Group.

Presently PIA has nine Boeing 777 aircraft in its fleet.

---------- Post added at 02:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------

Question mark over CAA performance PIA plane hits bird at Islamabad airport

10/14/2011

KARACHI, Oct 13: A PIA aircraft that was hit by a bird while taking off from airport in the federal capital on Thursday morning was called back immediately after the incident, but as the damage was not serious the plane was allowed to proceed to the United Kingdom.

PIA Managing Director Nadeem Yusufzai told a media briefing on Thursday that the incident in Islamabad took the total number of such accidents involving the airline`s aircraft this year to 59, of which 51 occurred in the country. This put a question mark on the performance of the Civil Aviation Authoritywhich was supposed to keep the skies near the airports clear for the aircraft.

Despite repeated requests made by Dawn, CAA`s spokesman Pervez George did not provide the total number of bird hits occurring inside the country. The 51 incidents were those in which PIA`s aircraft were involved and there were several other local and foreign airlines operating in the country and their aircraft must also have been hit by birds.

The PIA chief said that flight PK 791 had taken off from Islamabad airport, but soon afterwards it was hit by a bird. So the aircraft was immediately called back.

After checking it was found that no major damage was done to the aircraft and, therefore, it was allowed to proceed to Birmingham.

He said that bird-hit cases had become a routine matter at the country`s airports. He said that such incidents were not only posing a threat to the safety of passengers but also damaging the aircraft.

According to him, the damages caused by birds vary, depending of the place where the hit is made. If the bird hits the aircraft`s body the impact could be negligible. But if the bird hits the engine, the accident could be fatal. 

Source: DAWN

---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

this bird strike issue needs to be addressed immediately, it costs PIA 500 Million Rs annually for repairing this. If the bird gets into the engines, it could be a lot of trouble and costly, also resulting in flights being delayed and inconvenience to the passengers.

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## Jango

saw on GEO news that 9 PIA aircraft are grounded as of this very moment, what is the authenticity of this?

And a new low for PIA, a B-747 on Hajj duty, was inspected by Saudi Authorities and they found out that the emergency lights and systems aboard the A/C were faulty, and have prohibited the entry of the A/C into Saudi airspace in the future.

These issues should be taken seriously by the PIA management, or else , it could lead to a total disaster for PIA.


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## Imran Khan

thats why since 3 days b-777 and a-310 are caring hajis .


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## Last Hope

I always say. If you wanna travel, travel with PIA. Atleast your giving your fellow mates some boast. Those employees who aren't working but getting the salaries and bonuses stuffed up their homes, must be stripped from the cash, and told to seek jobs.
Retards.


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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> thats why since 3 days b-777 and a-310 are caring hajis .



what happened to those 2 leased jumbos?


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> what happened to those 2 leased jumbos?


 
i never seen them in action dear lolz yesterday 5pm arrival was b-777 before yesterday 3pm and 3:20 i thing i watch both A-310 and b-777 but Hellenic blue tail with bird not yet seen here


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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> i never seen them in action dear lolz yesterday 5pm arrival was b-777 before yesterday 3pm and 3:20 i thing i watch both A-310 and b-777 but Hellenic blue tail with bird not yet seen here



WTF has happened to those 2 Hellenic Imperial jets???

You work in some Saudi airport no?


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## Imran Khan

PIA A-310 shark over jeddah Monday afternoon catch by my mobile camera lolz while i was waitng on a red signal of sultan bin salman road 






---------- Post added at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------




nuclearpak said:


> WTF has happened to those 2 Hellenic Imperial jets???
> 
> You work in some Saudi airport no?



they will soon in action dear just wait till hajj finish .lolz its PIA DEAR .BTW saudi are doing something wrong here man there MD-92 still fly and our 747-300 can't how? anybody travel on MD-92 ?

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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> PIA A-310 shark over jeddah Monday afternoon catch by my mobile camera lolz while i was waitng on a red signal of sultan bin salman road
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> they will soon in action dear just wait till hajj finish .lolz its PIA DEAR .BTW saudi are doing something wrong here man there MD-92 still fly and our 747-300 can't how? anybody travel on MD-92 ?



The problem is safety standards. Our jumbo has below par safety , no emergency lights in order, poor maintenance, and a host of other problems. But I agree , how is tha MD-90 still flying??


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> The problem is safety standards. Our jumbo has below par safety , no emergency lights in order, poor maintenance, and a host of other problems. But I agree , how is tha MD-90 still flying??



not only this but regulerly junk fly to gulf states in jeddah daily land DC-10 of beman and no one damn told them don't fly it can be fall in parts .i look it closely and watch it carefully every corner of DC-10 its like peace of metal which is punched every corner still our 747-300 are far far better .what abut indian 747-300? they fly and land jeddah .its damn our bad luck that our friends also do it with us on bad time .


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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> not only this but regulerly junk fly to gulf states in jeddah daily land DC-10 of beman and no one damn told them don't fly it can be fall in parts .i look it closely and watch it carefully every corner of DC-10 its like peace of metal which is punched every corner still our 747-300 are far far better .what abut indian 747-300? they fly and land jeddah .its damn our bad luck that our friends also do it with us on bad time .



They were banned by EU as well, the PIA jumbos, for the reason that they give out too much air pollution. And because they are poorly maintained.

But we have got new 777 simulators, costing 20 million $, so new 777's to be bought perhaps?
PIA installs $20m flight simulator for Boeing-777 pilots


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## Imran Khan

PIA flight 1128 left jeddah now as B-777 AP-BGK

Its mean again shedule in mess as b-777 being used for hajj flights


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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> PIA flight 1128 left jeddah now as B-777 AP-BGK
> 
> Its mean again shedule in mess as b-777 being used for hajj flights



What in the world is the PIA flight planning centre doing? I think it may be because of the banning of a jumbo in Saudi airspace, as earlier mentioned.


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> What in the world is the PIA flight planning centre doing? I think it may be because of the banning of a jumbo in Saudi airspace, as earlier mentioned.


 
nope man it will be ok within 24 hours don't worry and yes its same all over the world when air plane is going to retired no one damn work hard on it and make it good .look at saudi own fleet of old HZ-AIF b-747SP is in use but 30 years old mre then pia b-747 and what abut HZ-AIK HZ-AIL HZ-AIM HZ-AIN and many b-747 of saudi 26 years older fleet ?its just a game man


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## Jango

Crippling losses: PIA loses money but continues to add workforce

By Zahid Gishkori

October 15, 2011

ISLAMABAD: Over the past three years 2,171 people have been recruited in the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), which has suffered losses worth Rs100 billion in the same time period.

The number of people hired by the incumbent government is the highest in the history of the national flag carrier, with most people, 1,179, having been employed in 2010, according to a 44-page report submitted by the defence ministry to the Senate.

Crippling losses: PIA loses money but continues to add workforce &#8211; The Express Tribune

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This is getting disastrous. May I ask what is the senate and NA doing in this regard?

And the report about PIA is made by the defence ministry? That is new.


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## Jango

PIA tender notice in today&#8217;s (October 16) newspaper.

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) intends to procure a complete solution that leverages the benefits of latest asset tracking technology including passive Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) with an initial purpose of tracking airplane assets, serialized / non-serialized office assigned assets and physical assets inside the PIA facilities.






Courtesy , another forum.

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------

Good step, to keep in check everything, and to ensure that no 'anomaly 'occurs.


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## Super Falcon

well if they take one year profit of hajj flight they can buy few better planes but they are not i always fly with PIA in order to support it financially anyway any news when they buy new planes and why they dont want to buy A 340 plane it is as good as B 777


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## Jango

Super Falcon said:


> well if they take one year profit of hajj flight they can buy few better planes but they are not i always fly with PIA in order to support it financially anyway any news when they buy new planes and why they dont want to buy A 340 plane it is as good as B 777



A340 has four engines, so maybe that maybe a issue, more engines, more maintenance, a couple more 777's and retirement of these Jumbos, and we may be all good, but as I have said before, management is what really needs to change.

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## dabong1

Privatize PIA......Why is the taxpayer subsiding a company that is used mainly by the wealthy.
Socialism for the rich,privatization for the poor.


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## Super Falcon

well sir Boeing 777 is good but you must not forget it is US made and in sanction 90 percent of PIA fleet will be grounded so what than will you do A 340 are twin engine but as good as Boeing 777 and it can also fly on two engine and keep pther two engines close for emergancy use and A 340 should be used for longer routes like Toronto,Manchester,London,Newyork etc and Boeing 777 should serve to both longer and shorter routes


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## Jango

Super Falcon said:


> well sir Boeing 777 is good but you must not forget it is US made and in sanction 90 percent of PIA fleet will be grounded so what than will you do A 340 are twin engine but as good as Boeing 777 and it can also fly on two engine and keep pther two engines close for emergancy use and A 340 should be used for longer routes like Toronto,Manchester,London,Newyork etc and Boeing 777 should serve to both longer and shorter routes


I dont think that the military thing applies here as well, in the case of Boeing, and if we are sanctioned in some case, then neither Boeing or Airbus are going to give us A/C. Based on pure performance , B-777 takes it, B-777-300 ER would be good, we already have the infrastructure in place for B-777's, and have bought a new simulator for it as well. The jumbos are going to be retired, so a good replacement, or the 744 could also do it.


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## Windjammer



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## Jango

Windjammer said:


>



ROFL at 00:28, 'yup, that is PIA, he cannot land a plane'.


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## nomi007

where you are living day by day
condition of Pia is going down
Pia need 40-45 new jets but not funds are available
Geo zardari


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## Donatello

Super Falcon said:


> well sir Boeing 777 is good but you must not forget it is US made and in sanction 90 percent of PIA fleet will be grounded so what than will you do A 340 are twin engine but as good as Boeing 777 and it can also fly on two engine and keep pther two engines close for emergancy use and A 340 should be used for longer routes like Toronto,Manchester,London,Newyork etc and Boeing 777 should serve to both longer and shorter routes



I beg to differ,

777-300 ER is the best plane for long haul flights (10 hours plus).........and way more comfortable. I have flown on A330, A340s and 777-200/300s and 777 are also the most comfortable planes.

No wonder Qatar, Turkish Air, Egypt Air, American Airlines, Emirates, Singapore Airlines, KLM all operate 777s on their long routes to New York JFK and beyond.

PIA has very professional pilots......people who fly 777s have been flying in PIA for 30 years!! However, PIA sucks at management and crew......they must let it go bankrupt so someone private can take care of it.......hire the pilots but kick the management out!

---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------




nuclearpak said:


> Crippling losses: PIA loses money but continues to add workforce
> 
> By Zahid Gishkori
> 
> October 15, 2011
> 
> ISLAMABAD: Over the past three years 2,171 people have been recruited in the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), which has suffered losses worth Rs100 billion in the same time period.
> 
> The number of people hired by the incumbent government is the highest in the history of the national flag carrier, with most people, 1,179, having been employed in 2010, according to a 44-page report submitted by the defence ministry to the Senate.
> 
> Crippling losses: PIA loses money but continues to add workforce &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> This is getting disastrous. *May I ask what is the senate and NA doing in this regard?
> *
> And the report about PIA is made by the defence ministry? That is new.




The NA and Senate are playing musical chairs....as usual.


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## Jango

penumbra said:


> I beg to differ,
> 
> 777-300 ER is the best plane for long haul flights (10 hours plus).........and way more comfortable. I have flown on A330, A340s and 777-200/300s and 777 are also the most comfortable planes.
> 
> No wonder Qatar, Turkish Air, Egypt Air, American Airlines, Emirates, Singapore Airlines, KLM all operate 777s on their long routes to New York JFK and beyond.
> 
> PIA has very professional pilots......people who fly 777s have been flying in PIA for 30 years!! However, PIA sucks at management and crew......they must let it go bankrupt so someone private can take care of it.......hire the pilots but kick the management out!




Agreed, pilots are good, the management is dud.


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## Super Falcon

but sir you also forgot that Etihad also bought both B 777 and A 340 A 340 is great to have in airline these two airoplanes i think will serve well to PIA for longger time


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## Donatello

Super Falcon said:


> but sir you also forgot that Etihad also bought both B 777 and A 340 A 340 is great to have in airline these two airoplanes i think will serve well to PIA for longger time



Etihad has more 777s on order than A340s.

Emirates flies 777s to New York long haul........same with Qatar...same with Turkish....Same with Egypt Air....KLM....Also Singapore Airlines (Now A380s) and PIA plus ....Air India etc....only Etihad flies A340s but even they have 777s on order...it's just a beauty of a plane..........on long routes...14 hours plus.....having a two engine plane like 777 makes more logistical sense than a 4 engine A340....777 can fly the same ETOPS specs with two engines that A340 does with 4 engines....twin engine jets are coming back big time on long haul........with the new A350s and 787s.....lets see how the competition fares.....but for now i must say 777s are the best airplanes out there!


About PIA...let it go bankrupt...why should the taxpayers be buying these 200 million dollar planes? Eh? Makes no sense at all.....plus PIA cannot afford the maintenance budget of managing big aircraft from different manufacturers and engine makers...........


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## Jango

Zardari Rejects Demand for PIA Bailout

ISLAMABAD, Sept 30: Expressing complete dissatisfaction over the performance of Pakistan International Airlines, President Asif Ali Zardari rejected on Friday a demand for bailout package for the national flag carrier.

At a briefing given to him, the president called for implementing a wide-ranging reforms plan to arrest decline and convert the PIA into a profitable organisation.

Zardari rejects demand for PIA bailout | ePaper | DAWN.COM

Even he is stressed out about it!!!


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## Super Falcon

well how long we would wait for A 350 and B 787 sir airbus and boeing producing everyday new planes even if they come out they will start new project as well im not saying go all out with A 340 but im saying it is comfortable plane and if you are not in favour of 4 engine planes than those 747 4 engine planes which PIA have drinks lot petrol than A 340 engines


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## Jango

Super Falcon said:


> well how long we would wait for A 350 and B 787 sir airbus and boeing producing everyday new planes even if they come out they will start new project as well im not saying go all out with A 340 but im saying it is comfortable plane and if you are not in favour of 4 engine planes than those 747 4 engine planes which PIA have drinks lot petrol than A 340 engines



Yes, that is why I am in favour of replacing these jumbos, and they are going to be retired now. A350 and 787 are way out of our price range ATM.


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## Super Falcon

hahahahah so you think A 350 will be cheaper than let me tell you B 777 alone twin engine price equally to 4 engine A 340 and tell you what A 340 got in air in 2000 not in 80s as jumbos so A 340 engines are efficent and it is not binding you to use 4 engines at a time with A 340 you can use two engines as you use it in B 777 and it has advantage of other two in major turbulance or engine failure so it is more safe than B 777 im not against B 777 i just want PIA to have different type of planes for diiferent type or routes dont count on just one kind of plane it is a first rule os aeronautical phenomena look worlds major airlines they dont count on just one plane they go for different planes Singapore,UAE,virgin,birtish etc and look at kingfisher it uses only airbus planes and it is still not as good as it should be internationally becoz of short sights of using different planes thats is the key and PIA can use those jumbos for cargo service as well as they are have wing of cargoo too so hope they learn from other airlines even US airlines uses Airbus planes so it is not a big fuss too buy different type of planes im not saying not to buy A 350 and B 787 i want PIA buy package of 3 to 4 of one type of plane not just go all out with one design of plane


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## Jango

PIA plane aborts take-off as fumes fill cabin | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

MULTAN: A Pakistan International Airlines jet bound for Saudi Arabia with 508 people on board was forced to abort take-off Thursday when fumes engulfed a terrified cabin, officials and passengers said.


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## Super Falcon

very very un professional PIA officials from A to Z i have seen my self in airports and even airport people who are reposible for airports not respecting people of pakistan whom they are working for and people of pakistan stying in long lines but when foreigners come they dont syand in lines go through even without checking what type of security it is insulting us infront of foreigners in our on countrywell and 100 percent PIA officials are corrupt from A to Z forget everything even sefty features of Aircraft they dont do professionally hope PIA should be closed soon this time i have worst experience of my life when i flew for dubai i will post it in Members club soon


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## eik_pagall

Something is gona happen soon as they r shouting now a days for some LASER BEAMS to only their planes.
Huhh


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## Jango

Ministry nods for Thar Airstrip project | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

KARACHI - The Ministry of Defence has agreed to approve the mega project of construction of Airstrip at Islamkot of Thar area in Sindh near international border with India, officials told The Nation.

Good thing, this would give better access to the projects in Thar desert.


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## Super Falcon

Again helll of stupididty who will land in Thar


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Super Falcon said:


> Again helll of stupididty who will land in Thar


The ppl of thar n adjoining cities in interior sindh.


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## Jango

Super Falcon said:


> Again helll of stupididty who will land in Thar



It's not only the people, the material and machinery from around the world will get there. Giving better access to the oil and gas fields there.

The runway will be Category C, meaning it can handle A310's and B737, so, it can handle some cargo.


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## Super Falcon

yaaar bhai yeh pakistani nationalist tu mere peecha hi pad gaya ha isa meri jaan chudayee aur moderators ko bhi kahonga sirf mera hi behavior nahe balka usko bhi check kareen man yeahan ladai karna nahe aya lakin is banda ka sath pata nahe ajj kia masla ha mere har post se isko masla hai


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## BATMAN

Super Falcon said:


> very very un professional PIA officials from A to Z i have seen my self in airports and even airport people who are reposible for airports not respecting people of pakistan whom they are working for and people of pakistan stying in long lines but when foreigners come they dont syand in lines go through even without checking what type of security it is insulting us infront of foreigners in our on countrywell and 100 percent PIA officials are corrupt from A to Z forget everything even sefty features of Aircraft they dont do professionally hope PIA should be closed soon this time i have worst experience of my life when i flew for dubai i will post it in Members club soon



Enjoy regime change and democrazy.

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## Super Falcon

well it is our bad luck after bhutto neither Democracy nor dictatorship have been good for pakistan only what they did keep making our daily lifes worst than worst common man have nothing seen good since bhutto only increase of money on daily lifes uses life has been probleumatic on every single front of life physicaly and specially mentally


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## Jango

CTOBER 23, 2011 - PIA has announced it will operate special flights to Sukkur from Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore, according to a local news channel.

A flight will be operated from Lahore to Sukkur via Islamabad at 9:00AM tomorrow

Apparently these special flights to Sukkur will enable supporters/followers of Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) to quickly reach Naudero, Larkana, to offer condolences or to attend funeral prayer of Begum Nusrat Bhutto who passed away today in Dubai.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is turning into a joke. WTF is the need to do this? Not even Saudis run special flights after deaths of royal family, but here we are, a woman not even in power, and of significant power or office , gets this much. Now this is misuse of national assets. And then we say that PIA is running into loss!!! Oh, the irony. Why run special flights for this???


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## Roybot

Nine PIA aircraft grounded because of spares shortage | Business | DAWN.COM



> *ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has had to reduce its flights by 23 per cent because nine of its 39 aircraft have been grounded for want of spare parts which are to be supplied by a Dubai-based US firm, Transworld, under a controversial multi-billion-dollar agreement.*
> 
> Under the deal, Transworld undertook to provide a $700 million credit line to PIA for 90 days. However, the agreement has turned out to be a liability as the airline has had to open a $2.5 million Letter of Credit (LC) (release of advance payment through bank) in favour of Transworld for the supply of spare parts for the grounded aircraft.
> 
> *Nine planes grounded because of non-availability of spare parts before the start of PIA&#8217;s Haj operations are three 747/300 or 743 aircraft, one ATR-42, three A-310, one B-777 and one 737 aircraft*.


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## Super Falcon

again incompitancy shown by PIA i dont know when their stupidity will ends seems no limits for their stupididity


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## Jango

Travelled on PK-292 from Muscat-lahore-Islamabad. Plane was A310, forgot the registration number.

The plane was first of all half an hour to takeoff. The rest of the journey was good, good meal was served. plane lands at lahore on time, and departs a bit early to make up time. But at BB airport is where the ruckus starts.

The plane lands, taxies to it's designated stand and stops. The stairs arrive and the doors open, but voila , there are no buses to take us. Around 200 pax standing on the tarmac waiting for a bus. Some aviation dept. people come running, and say that the bus is going to be here in some moments. I ask the official why is the bus not here, and no cargo trolleys, ramps or any kind of ground crew is visible there, except 4 or so personnel as above mentioned. The official says that we were not expecting the airplane at this time, and did not know if the plane was arriving or not!!!. I made a remark that 'sari busain larkana gayi hui hain'.. He smiles, and nods. then after 15 minutes, a coaster arrives, and around 200 people jump on the 30-seater bus. I stay back, trying to avoid the rush. Then after a few minutes, another bus arrives and we got on it, the bus is of poor health, not the Cobus buses you see at other airports, rather hino buses which are standing 3 meters tall!!!. Immigration is done and now we wait for the baggage. The first bag exits after 15 or so minutes. The reason, no ground staff, baggage handlers, ramps and trolleys are not there to receive the plane. And after 25 minutes we get our baggage and go. And the ordeal ends.

And the irony is that there were only 2 planes at the airport at the time, a ATR-42, and our flight, a A310. Although there were apprx. 10 C-130's there.

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## Super Falcon

totally agreeee with you same thing happened with me no maintainance even poorest nation uses Ac busses in the world uses better even of one day airport tax they take to buy busses they can wasily buy them but for last 18 years we have these old scrap where we put in like goats no tv channels here condemn them Airport standards are no way near to even 3rd class airport similar thing going on karachi airport too but thanks to Emirates air line they have their things seprate and they pay money to airport officials in order to give their traveller better service in airport so next time when they travell they must travel by Emirates i will do travel by emirates next time due to PIA and airport unprofessionalism


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## Roybot

Iran makes airspace off limits to PIA over payment backlog &#8211; The Express Tribune



> *KARACHI: Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) confirmed on Tuesday that Iran has shut its airspace to Pakistani air craft due to a six-month backlog in transit payments.*
> 
> PIA owes Iran close to $600,000 in past payments. PIA officials said that the ban may affect the shorter route for flights carrying returning Hajis from Saudi Arabia via Iranian airspace. A redirect to the longer and slightly expensive route over Oman would resolve the issue for the flights, the first of which are expected to start from Thursday. PIA officials said that it is expected that a solution to the current ban will be found through diplomatic channels by tomorrow.


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## Roybot

PIA employees plan protest from 18th | Provinces | DAWN.COM



> *ISLAMABAD: The action committee of the employees` unions of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has decided to go on a countrywide protest for an indefinite period against the deteriorating condition of the national flag carrier* and a recently signed $700 million agreement between its management and a US firm for supply of spares, consumable material, chemicals and other items.


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## Super Falcon

time to move on PIA should think for new dreamliner jet which drinks less fuel and give huge miles


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## razgriz19

Super Falcon said:


> time to move on PIA should think for new dreamliner jet which drinks less fuel and give huge miles



not anytime soon....
IF PIA would buy 787s, then they probably would do it to replace A310-300s
however they will serve PIA for another decade or so before they get replaced


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## VCheng

Super Falcon said:


> time to move on PIA should think for new dreamliner jet which drinks less fuel and give huge miles



At approximately $200 million per plane, just how many 787s can PIA buy in the present circumstances?


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## fatman17

PIA is bankrupt - it is losing Rs, 30Bill per year. its 747, 737 fleet has been grounded because of lack of spares. its latest a/c 777 and ATR-42 are being 'over-used' and these a/c will get 'older' faster than normal because the PIA engg. is cutting corners in their maintenance schedules and we are witnessing problems with these a/c such as engine catching fire (ATR), tire blowouts during taxiing (777) to name a few instances. experienced PIA engg'rs have all bolted to Emirates and Etihad on double/triple salaries. PIA management has signed a 'dubious' spare-parts deal with a dubai-based US company, paid it advances but no spare parts delivery.
PIA is finished IMO.

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## VCheng

fatman17 said:


> PIA is bankrupt - it is losing Rs, 30Bill per year. its 747, 737 fleet has been grounded because of lack of spares. its latest a/c 777 and ATR-42 are being 'over-used' and these a/c will get 'older' faster than normal because the PIA engg. is cutting corners in their maintenance schedules and we are witnessing problems with these a/c such as engine catching fire (ATR), tire blowouts during taxiing (777) to name a few instances. experienced PIA engg'rs have all bolted to Emirates and Etihad on double/triple salaries. PIA management has signed a 'dubious' spare-parts deal with a dubai-based US company, paid it advances but no spare parts delivery.
> PIA is finished IMO.



The problems described above are emblematic of not only PIA, but the ship of the state as well.

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## BATMAN

I wonder if P.Musharraf had not baught those ATR and Boeings.. than we'd still be flying fokkers and 30-40 year old airbuses.

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## Jango

Saw an article in the newspaper yesterday. The MD PIA said that they are selling B-777 (new wide body jets) , for smaller , narrow body B-737's. What in the world made the PIA do this???

777 is a more advanced, economical, environmental friendly jet as to those 737s.


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## Jango

PIA fails to respond to CAA inquiry


Javed Mirza
Saturday, November 26, 2011

KARACHI: The Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has failed to reply to a memo issued by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) which pointed out serious safety and procedural lapses in a PIA flight on September 6. 

CAA has asked the management to submit its reply, streamline its operations and take corrective measures. 

However, PIA management has failed to reply to the memo during the last two months. 

According to sources, CAA pointed out some serious violations of aviation rules in PK 308, Airbus A310, during a ramp inspection on September 6, 2011. It asked the airline to submit its reply before September 21 to Chief Pilot Technical. 

They said that the PIA management had been bypassing airline worthiness and safety standards in routine flight operations for domestic and international routes.

Sources said that the airline had completely failed to meet requirements on different routes, which put the lives of passengers at stake. 

During ramp inspection of the flight, the CAA officials found that SEP Manual LEP/Amendments were kept separately and were not inserted in SEP Manual, which was a serious violation of CAA rules. 

The officials also found that the temperature in the aircraft had reached alarmingly high level as the air-condition system of the plane was not working properly and the cabin was hot during the boarding. 

It was not inspected before flights and the relevant department failed to repair it.

The Emergency Equipment Check Form was also not used by the cabin crew though it was an indispensable practice for maintaining airworthiness and its negligence was termed absolutely a professional crime, sources said. 

In the same PIA flight, it was also observed during ramp inspection, a universal precaution kit was provided only 10 minutes before boarding of the passengers, although aviation law says this kit should be made available in the aircraft an hour before boarding. 

The CAA conducted inspection on September 6, but PIA management has failed to take action against its departments concerned. 

PIA fails to respond to CAA inquiry


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## v9s

I've heard it's being intentionally run down so that Zardari's sister's company, Indus Air, can take over PIA. 

Sounds like a conspiracy but i wouldn't be surprised if it was true.


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## fatman17

nuclearpak said:


> Saw an article in the newspaper yesterday. The MD PIA said that they are selling B-777 (new wide body jets) , for smaller , narrow body B-737's. What in the world made the PIA do this???
> 
> 777 is a more advanced, economical, environmental friendly jet as to those 737s.



747 are being sold but who will buy these outdated, derelict a/c

---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

*PIA crises far from over*


By: Sikander Shaheen | Published: November 27, 2011 

ISLAMABAD - The plethora of crises Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) grapples with is not to go anytime sooner while the defence minister admits that it would take another three years to bring the national flag carrier on no-profit, no-loss terms.
Lately, the PIA management adequately publicised its much-hyped five-year business plan that became effective from the start of 2010 till 2014. The PIA also announced adding new planes to its operational fleet and doing away with the outdated ones. But despite the lapse of two good years, the business plan appears to have stood far from yielding any worthy outcome. What appears as alarmingly intriguing is that PIA would only be able to stem the unstoppable spree of losses not before the next three years, let alone contributing any profit to national exchequer. 

In his recorded reply in the National Assembly on Wednesday, Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar stated that the PIA had outsourced BMA Capital that, according to the defence minister, is a leading consultancy firm of Pakistan, in order to evaluate the business plan. &#8220;This plan has been shared with concerned government authorities. If steps as detailed in the plan are implemented, PIA shall be operating on a breakeven basis in three years time,&#8221; the reply statement reads. 

It needs a mention that the word &#8216;breakeven&#8217; stands for no-profit and no-loss basis in operational and logistical terms. The minister&#8217;s reply, which was also interpreted by the PIA Parliamentary Secretary for Defence Azim Daultana in the NA, reads that PIA Board had approved new business plan 2011-2014 that envisaged replacing six B-737 by as many narrow body new generation planes and four ATR-42 aircraft into the &#8220;Aging fleet of national flag carrier&#8221;. Nowhere in the written replies and as well as the verbal information provided by Daultana was it mentioned as to how the PIA would arrange funds for inducting these 10 sophisticated airplanes in the wake of worst financial crises it is living with. The PIA currently has five types of aircraft, Boeing 737, Boeing 747, Boeing, 777, ATR and Airbus 310. Of them, Boeing 737, Boeing 747 and Airbus 310 are outdated aircrafts that are unfit for any domestic or international flight and do not meet the safety standards laid down by the United Nations International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).

Contradicting his own statement made sometime ago, Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar&#8217;s reply, the statement says that PIA suffered a financial loss of Rs 78.19 million last year on account of flight cancellations, protests and strikes. 
On the other hand, the defence minister was the one to have stated in the Senate on last September 14 that PIA achieved its &#8216;highest ever&#8217; revenue of Rs 107.5 billion in the year 2010 compared to that of Rs 95.5 billion in 2009. Mukhtar had also mentioned then that PIA would initiate phase-wise rightsizing in the PIA non-operational areas. He had also conceded that PIA made 2171 inductions in last three years and its 165 personnel were getting lucrative salaries exceeding Rs 500,000. 

In addition, the twelve high-profile and politically motivated inductions made during the tenure of former Managing Director PIA Ejaz Haroon and authenticated by the PIA Board have still not been reverted. These include some manger-rank officials of the PIA Public Relations (PR) department. Back in September, The Nation had reported that 22 highly technical and operational posts like those of aircraft engineer and deputy chief engineer are vacant while the ones that are unnecessary and non-operational are flooded with manpower. Of the 727 aircraft engineer posts, 727 are occupied and 30 remain vacant while of the 70 deputy chief engineer posts, 52 posts are occupied and the remaining 18 stay vacant.

Meanwhile, Mukhtar also admitted in his statement on Wednesday that passengers &#8220;Had to face some trouble in the last few days due to changes in the schedule of PIA flights.&#8221;

When contacted, Defence Ministry Spokesperson Rear Admiral Farrukh Ahmed did not respond to this scribe&#8217;s queries on defence minister&#8217;s statements about PIA&#8217;s multiple crises. The queries were sent in writing and routed through the spokesperson&#8217;s ADC Lieutenant Amaad but no reply was received till the filing of this report.

PIA Spokesperson and General Manager Public Relations (PR) Sultan Hassan is in Madina for performing Umrah. Hassan told this newspaper, when approached, that he would be back within a couple of days and could respond to official queries thereafter.


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## Jango

fatman17 said:


> 747 are being sold but who will buy these outdated, derelict a/c
> 
> .




The planes in question are 777, not the jumbos. The 777 is a relatively new aircraft, while the 747 is a old, downtrodden, aircraft which miraculously still flies.

What could be the sane reason behind selling 777?

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - PIA to induct 10 new aircraft in its fleet: NA told

PIA to induct 10 new aircraft in its fleet: NA told

ISLAMABAD, Nov 23 (APP): Parliamentary Secretary for Defence Azeem Daultana on Wednesday informed the National Assembly that the PIAC Board has approved three-year Business Plan 2011-14 under which six B-737 airplanes would be replaced besides induction of six additional narrow body new generation and four ATR-42 aircraft into the aging fleet of national flag carrier.Replying to various questions in Question Hour, he said that the Pakistan International Airlines Corporation (PIAC) had 39 aircraft, out of which 23 were very old. A comprehensive plan has been chalked out to overhaul the aircraft in a year, he added.
He said the PIAC would overhaul all these planes from its own resources and would not take any financial assistance from the national kitty.
To a supplementary question, he said that some aircraft were hired on lease from Greece for the Hajj Operation. 
He said that the government had no intention to ban unions in the PIAC. A code of conduct has already been circulated to different unions and associations.Violation of this code of conduct would lead to disciplinary action under applicable law, he added.
To another question, Azeem Daultana said that the PIAC suffered Rs 78.19 million during the last year on account of cancellation of flights due to strikes and protests.
He said that a separate Cabin Maintenance Division was set up to improve cabin services in the planes.
Azeem said private airlines offer lucrative salaries, perks and privileges to their employees.
He said that during the financial year 2010, the corporation achieved its highest ever revenue in excess of Rs.107.5 billion as compared to Rs.95.5 billion in 2009 despite the volcanic eruption and strikes.
To a written reply, the House was informed that the accumulated losses of the PIAC stood at Rs.111.543 billion on September 30, 2011.


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## Jango

Illegal appointments, promotions cost Rs 48m to PIA
By: Amraiz Khan | Published: December 02, 2011

LAHORE &#8211; Two general managers of Pakistan International Airlines&#8217; IT department have caused the national flag carrier a loss of more than 48 million rupees by making illegal appointments in the corporation, revealed an inquiry report available with TheNation. Surprisingly, the Airlines&#8217; management instead of taking strong action against the responsible issued just a displeasure notice to the accused warning them to avoid any such illegality in future. 

Illegal appointments, promotions cost Rs 48m to PIA | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

Corruption at it's finest.


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## Jango

PIA again faces EU ban threat | Business | DAWN.COM

PIA again faces EU ban threat


KARACHI: The European Union has expressed concern over &#8216;systematic deficiency&#8217; in PIA aircraft maintenance, termed Civil Aviation Authority regulatory role &#8216;unreliable&#8217; and started carefully examining the situation before taking a final decision to ban the airline operations in its region, it was learnt on Friday.

Sources said this was communicated by the European Aviation Safety Agency to the Pakistan International Airlines.

They added that if a ban was imposed, this would be a second time that the national flag carrier would not be allowed to travel to EU-member countries.


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## TOPGUN

nuclearpak said:


> PIA again faces EU ban threat | Business | DAWN.COM
> 
> PIA again faces EU ban threat
> 
> 
> KARACHI: The European Union has expressed concern over &#8216;systematic deficiency&#8217; in PIA aircraft maintenance, termed Civil Aviation Authority regulatory role &#8216;unreliable&#8217; and started carefully examining the situation before taking a final decision to ban the airline operations in its region, it was learnt on Friday.
> 
> Sources said this was communicated by the European Aviation Safety Agency to the Pakistan International Airlines.
> 
> They added that if a ban was imposed, this would be a second time that the national flag carrier would not be allowed to travel to EU-member countries.



Thx to mr.100% and his team of thugs and bastards... bringing the nation more and more down to just drain it out completly somebody plz get this jerk out of office.


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## SHAMK9

lol govs will come and go but PIA will never get shut down samething goes for railways


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## salvage

we should convert our old 747's into AWACS or something like that....maybe air-refuller.


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## fatman17

salvage said:


> we should convert our old 747's into AWACS or something like that....maybe air-refuller.



they are only good for the salvage market.

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------




nuclearpak said:


> PIA again faces EU ban threat | Business | DAWN.COM
> 
> PIA again faces EU ban threat
> 
> 
> KARACHI: The European Union has expressed concern over &#8216;systematic deficiency&#8217; in PIA aircraft maintenance, termed Civil Aviation Authority regulatory role &#8216;unreliable&#8217; and started carefully examining the situation before taking a final decision to ban the airline operations in its region, it was learnt on Friday.
> 
> Sources said this was communicated by the European Aviation Safety Agency to the Pakistan International Airlines.
> 
> They added that if a ban was imposed, this would be a second time that the national flag carrier would not be allowed to travel to EU-member countries.



how shameful - this is the 3rd ban on PIA ops to the EU - our people just dont learn from their past mistakes.

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## fatman17

*What could be the sane reason behind selling 777?*
@nuclearpak - kickbacks!!! - remember the selling of the MD-10 triseries in the 80's


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## Jango

PIA&#8217;s sole vendor denied parts&#8217; supply

KARACHI: The sole spare parts vendor of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), TWA Aviation FZE, has been denied supply of parts by the original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) leaving the national flag carrier in a fix resulting in increased technical problems of the airline&#8217;s fleet.

According to a correspondence by TWA to PIA, which is seen by The News, the vendor has informed PIA that it has been denied supply of parts and asked PIA to arrange parts from some other source.

The correspondence relates to parts for new ATR aircrafts on aircraft-on-ground (AOG) basis. It was learnt that the hesitation by OEMs is because that TWA FZE has no credibility or any history of such dealings with manufacturers who alone can supply parts to airline operators or to their recommended vendors. 

According to aviation experts, airlines can only use original parts otherwise their insurance cover faces a risk in case of any incident or accident or to qualify for any guarantees offered by manufacturers at the time of delivery. 

This is also a requirement for leased aircrafts or aircrafts purchased from the manufacturer or from any other party in case of used aircrafts.

It was learnt that contrary to the claims of PIA that TWA FZE had offered a $700 million credit line, PIA opened an LC (letter of credit) amounting $2.5 million through Summit Bank for supply of parts. Another correspondence between PIA and TWA FZE reveals inexperience of TWA FZE in dealing with such issues.

A source said that the parts were shipped in the name of Summit Bank instead of PIA, which led to delay of two to three days in getting them cleared from the customs. 

Airlines all over the world maintain their own inventory of spares to carry out rectification and maintenance at their main hubs. In addition to this they appoint vendors located in proximity to their various international destinations. 

PIA made a decision by handing over their inventory to TWA FZE, rather than having a choice of multiple vendors. 

Sources said that this was done in 2005- 2006 when the former chairman, Chaudhry Ahmed Saeed was heading the airline. The then DMD AVM handed over the PIA inventory to a company located in UK and appointed it as its sole supplier with right of first refusal. 

It may be mentioned here that when an aircraft is on ground and a part is not readily available it is classified as AOG and an airline would rather buy a part at twice or even thrice its normal price tag in order to avoid expenses such as provision of hotels for long delays to passengers, parking charges and consequential ramifications on its schedules. 

PIA ended up buying all spares on AOG basis, which led to depletion of allocated maintenance budgets. 

In 2007, PIA&#8217;s total fleet excluding the Boeing 777 was banned from operating into the European Union following inspections by SAFA (Safety Assessment of Foreign Aircrafts) inspectors.

&#8220;PIA has now made the same mistake in 2011. This time it is current DMD, who is an employee of GE, presently working on contract with PIA,&#8221; a source said.

PIA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what happens when you don't put out tenders for spare parts, and just go to one vendor on personal bias.


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## Imran Khan

747s are active now i watch them daily in jeddah these days .


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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> 747s are active now i watch them daily in jeddah these days .



At the moment , yes they are active. But right now, 3 or 4 jumbos are grounded due to lack of spare parts.


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> At the moment , yes they are active. But right now, 3 or 4 jumbos are grounded due to lack of spare parts.



they have daily here 1 flight of jumbo and that come . BTW dont lose hope soon parts will arrive and fleet will become ok .its matter of time only for me . god bless our flag career .


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## Jango

bow only one jumbo is grounded.

The big problem is that why the hell exclusively take spare parts from one vendor only, based in dubai, with no prior experience in the industry.


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## Jango

According to the following article, PIA will need to buy 19 more engines within 3 months, or risk putting the safety of passengers in danger.

Govt urged to save PIA

KARACHI: Joint Action Committee of PIA Employees (JACPIAE) has asked the government to save the national flag carrier from devastation and said that they will move the court if the government fails to respond.

JACPIAE Convenor and Pakistan Airline Pilots Association (PALPA) President, Captain Suhail Baluch, in a press conference on Monday urged the government to take immediate corrective measures by appointing competent administration. He held the current management responsible for corruption, incompetence and poor administration. He said the decline of PIA was blamed often on overstaffing, although the airline spent only 16 percent of its budget on salaries. He said employee-to-aircraft ratio was high only because the airline failed to add the desired number of aircrafts to its fleet. 

He alleged that about 15 to 20 employees at the helm of PIA&#8217;s affairs were responsible for the devastation of PIA, resulting in Rs116 billion losses and grounding of half of the fleet. 

Baluch also said that a large sum was spent to set up an FM radio station, which continued to cause a loss of revenue. He said that the recent Hajj operation was the worst in the airline&#8217;s history, although it had always been most profitable since the airline&#8217;s inception. 

*The JACPIAE Convenor said that even with an operation control office and outsourced ground handling agent at Jeddah, 650 additional employees were deputed, on political grounds and the airline had to bear additional expenses despite their failure to manage Hajj operations.
*
He said that a fast dilapidating fleet would only add to the misery of the passengers. *The national flag carrier would have at least 16 engines completing their life cycle in the next three months while currently half of its fleet remains grounded due to shortage of 13 engines, he added. *

Baluch said that the management planned a deal with Hellenic Airways to acquire two Boeing 747 200 series planes instead of repairing five planes of the existing 300 series. 

He said the administration should have gotten its 7 grounded aircraft ready for operation after necessary repairs to mitigate the financial burden. 

*He also flayed the management decision to award maintenance and spare parts contract to Transworld Aviation, a Dubai-based US firm, on grounds of incompetence.
*(somebody would be getting alot of kickbacks from this deal).


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## Jango

PIA is being refused fuel for their aircraft at Jeddah and Manchester Airports, because of non-payment of bills to the fuel companies.

Ironic ain't it.

4 million is overdue at Jeddah airport.


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## Omar1984

*PIA gets $100m financing*

KARACHI - Pakistan International Airlines has closed a $100m Sharia-compliant financing facility, says a press release.

The facility was arranged by Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank, Al Hilal Bank, Citibank NA and United Bank Limited as mandated lead arrangers and joint book runners. Warba Bank in Kuwait has joined as lead arranger. Citibank N.A. is also performing the role of the account bank and security trustee.

This innovative Islamic transaction is secured by PIA`s ticket sales generated in the UAE and aggregated through IATA`s Billing and Settlement Plan, and through sales by general sales agents. The three-year facility will be used for PIA`s general corporate purposes and reflects investor confidence in the airline and its strategic importance to Pakistan. The facility represents the first foreign currency commercially syndicated financing for a Pakistani corporate since 2007. 

The transaction is also important for the aviation sector as it uniquely broadens airline corporate credit to regional Islamic financiers.


PIA gets $100m financing | The Nation gives news details

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## SHAMK9

*Despite hardships, PIA announces 17% growth*

PIA announces strategy for 2012. 

Despite strains on ground with increasing number of delays and aircrafts being grounded, the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has claimed to have registered a 17 per cent growth in sales in the past year. It also announced reduced revisions in some booking charges, along with incentives for agents.

This was revealed by PIA&#8217;s Advisor and Consultant Haider Jalal at a marketing conference held to appreciate the performance of top 20 agents of which 10 were International Air Transport Agents (IATA) and10 Passenger Sales Agents.

PIA also discussed its strategy for 2012 and assured its full support and commitment to the Travel Agents, so that together they could achieve benefits for all stakeholders.

PIA also announced a revised and reduced refund charges on International routes from Rs13000 to Rs8000. PIA has simultaneously revised and decreased Change of Booking (COB) charges on its International flights from Rs8000 to Rs4000.

No-Show charges for passengers travelling to International destinations have been reduced from Rs13000 to Rs6000. Similarly all sale agents for USA, Canada, UK, and Europe have been given incentives for further improvement in sales and growth in revenue.

Travel Agents applauded PIA&#8217;s efforts and cooperation and the decrease in Refund, No Show and COB charges.

The meeting was chaired by Advisor and Consultant Haider Jalal and attended by General Manager Passenger Sales Maj. Khurram Mushtaq, GM Revenue Management Tahir Niaz, DGM Pakistan Naveed, DM Lahore, Manager Passenger Sales Corporate Asadullah Ghauri, Passenger Sales Manager M. Shafiq, Assistant Passenger Sales Manager Dr Muqadam and other marketing officials. 
Despite hardships, PIA announces 17% growth &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## Alpery

PIA announces 17% growth...GOOD NEWS..

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## VCheng

Alpery said:


> PIA announces 17% growth................:



.... ".... in sales." That is not the same as more profits, or revenues, or other important measure. The figure quoted are in rupees, which, by itself, has depreciated, so converting dollar sales would give a larger rupee figure.

I don't think this report means much in reality, but let's wait for detailed reports.


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## SHAMK9

3 new airlines taking to the skies this year, bhoja air might start flying 5th feb, airindus and pearlair. Also, shaheenair and airblue are going through massive fleet replacement and adding on new destinations, finallyy!!!


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## Alpha Omega

Pakistan International Airlines 2012 - YouTube


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## Alpha Omega

*The trouble with: Flying PIA*

Published: January 26, 2012

Facts, figures and opinion below are based on past articles run in The Express Tribune:

&#8226; Pakistan International Airlines is suffering a loss of Rs70.7 million per day.

&#8226; PIA has already lost Rs110 billion over the past three years.

*&#8226; Despite the crippling losses, PIA employees (retired and serving) enjoy free travel in Pakistan and abroad.*

&#8226; Cancellation of around 1,200 PIA flights between Aug-Nov 2011 inflicted Rs410 million loss to the airline.

&#8226; PIA&#8217;s downhill trend is aided by its powerful unions which force key deals to fall through, shut down airports.

*&#8226; Over the past three years 2,171 people have been recruited in PIA, which has suffered losses worth Rs100 billion in the same time period.*

&#8226; PIA recruited 237 people in 2011, 1,179 in 2010, while 684 appointments were made in 2009 and 56 in 2008.

&#8226; Thousands of PIA employees sacked by Nawaz Sharif&#8217;s government were reinstated by the PPP in 2008.

*&#8226; The number of people hired by the PPP government is the highest in the history of the national flag carrier.*

&#8226; The total number of airlines authorised to operate on commercial basis is six, including PIA, Air Blue, Shaheen Air, Indus Air, Bhoja Air and Pearl Air.

&#8226; This local competition enhances losses of the national flag carrier.

&#8226; In 2011, Iran shut its airspace to Pakistani aircraft due to a six-month $600,000 backlog in transit payments.

&#8226; PIA&#8217;s aging fleets of aircraft have faced increasing technical issues, forcing many planes to be grounded in 2011.

&#8226; On September 28 2011, 10 PIA aircraft, out of a fleet of 39, were grounded allegedly due to technical faults.

&#8226; On September 27 2011, flight PK-369 made an emergency landing at Multan Airport due to a malfunctioning generator.

&#8226; 24 hours later, UAE-bound flight PK-255 had to land in Karachi due to the same issue.

&#8226; On August 6, 2011, PK-745 had to make an emergency landing in Karachi after its landing gear failed to retract.

&#8226; On September 2 2011, PK-501 carrying 21 passengers and PK-508 with 32 passengers had to make &#8216;technical landings&#8217; after engine failures.

&#8226; On December 12 2011, 11-19 of PIA&#8217;s 39 aircraft were believed to have been grounded for technical reasons.

&#8226; A potential reason for technical deficiencies in aircraft is the plummeting standards of engineering in the airline.

&#8226; Seven out of 26 local airports were closed down due to suspension of PIA flights on account of insufficient traffic load.

&#8226; Despite all this, PIA fights on the domestic sector fly with full loads due to lack of viable alternatives.

&#8226; The national carrier continues to cost Pakistan billions of rupees.
Read more: pia

Source: The trouble with: Flying PIA &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## ziaulislam

SHAMK9 said:


> *Despite hardships, PIA announces 17% growth*
> 
> PIA announces strategy for 2012.
> 
> Despite strains on ground with increasing number of delays and aircrafts being grounded, the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has claimed to have registered a 17 per cent growth in sales in the past year. It also announced reduced revisions in some booking charges, along with incentives for agents.
> 
> This was revealed by PIA&#8217;s Advisor and Consultant Haider Jalal at a marketing conference held to appreciate the performance of top 20 agents of which 10 were International Air Transport Agents (IATA) and10 Passenger Sales Agents.
> 
> PIA also discussed its strategy for 2012 and assured its full support and commitment to the Travel Agents, so that together they could achieve benefits for all stakeholders.
> 
> PIA also announced a revised and reduced refund charges on International routes from Rs13000 to Rs8000. PIA has simultaneously revised and decreased Change of Booking (COB) charges on its International flights from Rs8000 to Rs4000.
> 
> No-Show charges for passengers travelling to International destinations have been reduced from Rs13000 to Rs6000. Similarly all sale agents for USA, Canada, UK, and Europe have been given incentives for further improvement in sales and growth in revenue.
> 
> Travel Agents applauded PIA&#8217;s efforts and cooperation and the decrease in Refund, No Show and COB charges.
> 
> The meeting was chaired by Advisor and Consultant Haider Jalal and attended by General Manager Passenger Sales Maj. Khurram Mushtaq, GM Revenue Management Tahir Niaz, DGM Pakistan Naveed, DM Lahore, Manager Passenger Sales Corporate Asadullah Ghauri, Passenger Sales Manager M. Shafiq, Assistant Passenger Sales Manager Dr Muqadam and other marketing officials.
> Despite hardships, PIA announces 17% growth &#8211; The Express Tribune



i would have liked a 50% decrease BUT WITH PROFITS...rather than 100 billion losses ...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Imran Khan

lo ab aik or karnama brig sahab ka .


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The should convert the older planes into Military Supply planes or Tankers - as they can get upgraded engines and parts (while on hold) 

Meanwhile newer planes are needed for passenger needs for revenue

Putting an awac platform on one of these would not be a bad idea (of course once the planes have gone thru a major over haul) with new parts

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## Jango

These are the pics I took of AP-BFU, while at lahore airport, a boeing 747-300. 

It was going to Jeddah, and while it was already 15 minutes past it's departure time, 40 passengers still had not boarded the aircraft even though they had their boarding passes! And then people say that PIA is late!

The aircraft was involved at a smoke incident at Jeddah airport on the return trip. While on the taxi run, smoke engulfed the cabin.


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## z9-ec

Inching towards 'Vision 2020': PIA to get ownership of six A310 aircraft


LAHORE: Pakistan International Airline (PIA) and Airbus has signed an agreement for the transfer of ownership of six A310 aircraft, which were acquired by the airline on lease in 2004.

The transfer of ownership to the national flag carrier is another step towards implementing the business plan of the &#8220;Vision 2020&#8221; and will help PIA save about $2 million monthly in rentals.

The agreement was signed between Managing Director (MD) PIA, Nadeem Khan Yousufzai and Director Asset Management Airbus, Patrice De Puymorin.

MD PIA stressed that the airline and the aircraft providers have a long relationship, which began with the induction of A300-B4 in early 80&#8217;s and was strengthened further by the purchase of A310 Aircraft in 1991.

*PIA to improve fleet with 5 Boeing 777s*

It was reported earlier in The Express Tribune that PIA will purchase five Boeing 777 aircraft from the Boeing Company of the United States.

The aircraft will be delivered by November 2015; with the first delivery scheduled in March of the same year.

MD PIA and Boeing Director International Sales J Miguel Santos signed the agreement in the presence of Minister for Defence Chaudhary Ahmad Mukhtar and Acting Ambassador of the US to Pakistan Richard Hoagland.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/337436/...20-pia-to-get-ownership-of-six-a310-aircraft/



I think this will address one key issue to make PIA profitable again and competitive with other carriers. Though, this was supposed to happen earlier but better late than never.


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## Saleem

so did anyone notice the new "toilet class" seats........PIA = persistently incompetent a********

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## z9-ec

Saleem said:


> so did anyone notice the new "toilet class" seats........PIA = persistently incompetent a********





Yeah that was hilarious.


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## mirage 5000

now they are going right . only damn is 737 fleet which need proper maintenance and good . damn even older then PIA 737-200 are better condition in shaeen air bhoja air then why pia 737-300 getting worse . i think all of fleet should go for proper maintenance and overhaul . after they get 777 they get rid of 747-300s . still we need at-least 20 more regional air crafts like 320 or 319 . please guys dont bash on them they are from us and PIA will be back again .

---------- Post added at 02:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 AM ----------

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## ziaulislam

us the former minister shaukat tareen said, we have to follow the model of US,CHINA and turkey..
privitizing 25% share is only viable solution.
imagine we had done so in 2008..today we could have saved over 500 billion ruppes..
thats equal to cost of bunji dam..!
same is for every insitution..

in fact today govt would have been earning from it through its shares as its doing from PTCL..!!

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## unicorn

*PIA orders five Boeing 777s, option for five more*







WASHINGTON: US aircraft manufacturer Boeing announced Monday that Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has ordered five of its 777-300ER long-range passenger jets, with an option for five more.

The planes are "valued at nearly $1.5 billion at list prices," the US manufacturer said in a statement.

PIA "has been renewing its long-haul fleet to accommodate increased demand for air travel as well as to introduce new routes," Boeing said.

PIA managing director Nadeem Yousufzai lauded the 777-300ER's "excellent operating economics, long range capability and reliability."

Boeing said it had logged 200 net orders for 777s in 2011, by far the best year for the family of aircraft, in service since 1995. (AFP) 

PIA orders five Boeing 777s, option for five more

*FILE VIDEO*

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## z9-ec

ziaulislam said:


> us the former minister shaukat tareen said, we have to follow the model of US,CHINA and turkey..
> privitizing 25% share is only viable solution.
> imagine we had done so in 2008..today we could have saved over 500 billion ruppes..
> thats equal to cost of bunji dam..!
> same is for every insitution..
> 
> in fact today govt would have been earning from it through its shares as its doing from PTCL..!!




Completely agree. Had PPP not withdrawn reforms planned during Gen. Musharraf's tenure, PIA would have been some what profitable today and competitive with other airlines stealing the show such as Emirates, Qatar and Etihad. The plan was to get 7 A320s in addition to 777s bought at the time but was shelved post elections by PPP. 

Nonetheless, the recent bid to revive Vision 2020 is a good step. Once things settle down and are in order a percentage of shares should be sold.


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## fatman17

*$500m kickbacks feared in PIA 777 deal*

24 February, 2012 



ISLAMABAD: The controversial US$1.5 billion (Rs140 billion) PIA-Boeing deal has now become scandalous with the Transparency International Pakistan (TIP) smelling possible kickbacks of US$500 million (almost Rs46 billion) and the Public Procurement Regulatory Authority (PPRA) confirming that the PIA has gone for the purchase of five Boeing ER 777-300 without floating any tenders.

Following The News (a local newspaper) report on the controversial deal as published on Thursday; the National Accountability Bureau has also started looking into this deal but without any clear indication if it could dare touch the case for a fair probe.

On Thursday, the TIP approached the top managements of both the PIA and Boeing Company with all its reservations vis-a-vis this agreement, signed between the two only a few days back. Adil Gillani has told this correspondent that hehad sought the copies of the Evaluation Report and Contract Agreement.

*He said the under the deal, each Boeing ES777-300 is to be purchased for an exorbitant price of US$300 million. This price of one aircraft, he explained, is 50% higher than the current market price*.

Referring to a complaint the TIP received, Gillani said that it was reported that Saleem Sayani, the Deputy Managing Director of the PIA in a meeting held last week of January 2012, had informed about the *PIA plans to procure five widebodied new Boeing ER777-300, at an estimated cost of around US$200 million each. Gillani says he does not know how the price shot up to US$300 million for each plane*.

Quoting the complaint, he said even Saleem Sayani's proposal was vehemently opposed by Aziz Suharwardy, flight Engineers National Association (FENA), Capt Sohail Baloch, President Pakistan Airline Pilots Association (PALPA), Shaukat Jamshaid, President Society of Aircraft Engineers of Pakistan (SAEP), and Najeeb ur Rehman, President Aircraft Technologists Association of Pakistan (ATAP).

"If this is correct, then the exchequer is losing US$100 million per plane, which is US$500 million," Adil Gillani said. He added that the complainant has also reported that one Boeing ER777-300 was also sold in similar clandestine manner by Boeing to M/S TAAG Angola Airlines in June 2011, and the cost was US$256 million, almost US$44 million less than the price announced in the PIA-Boeing deal.

The TIP, in its letter, warned the PIA top management that in case the allegations are found to be true, this procurement is to be examined under Public Procurement Rules 2004, Rule No 2(f) "corrupt and fraudulent practices" which covers collusive practices among bidders (prior to or after bid submission) designed to establish bid prices at artificial, non-competitive levels and to deprive the procuring agencies of the benefits of free and open competition.

"This is to inform PIA and Boeing that TIP has confirmed from PIA and PPRA websites that this procurement of five new Boeing ER 777-300, (380-400 passenger seater) wide body long haul planes is/was never advertised on PIA and PPRA websites. The tender invited for narrow body 39 aircraft by PIA and opened on 23rd January 2012 was the following; "Pakistan International Airline (PIA) invites "sealed bids" from interested parties for the Dry Lease of same type of thirty nine (39) narrow body jet aircraft with seating capacity of around 140 passenger seats for ten (10) year lease period. PIA will prefer new aircraft."

When The News (a local newspaper) contacted PPRA authorities, they also confirmed that the PIA had never floated any tender, which under the rules is not only shared with PPRA but is also displayed at its website. On condition of not being named, a PPRA source said that it seems that the PIA had wrongly used an alternative method to avoid tendering process.

He explained that Rule 42C of the PPRA Rules do allow an alternate method of procurement without tenders. But such purchases are allowed only where the item required falls in the category of "proprietary items", which means the item required is of proprietary nature and is produced by only one company.

The PPRA source said that such an application of Rule 42C for the purchase of Boeing ER 777-300 does not make any sense because there are other companies in the world that build aircraft, including bigger planes like Airbus.

PIA spokesman Syed Sultan Hasan had denied the TIP's claim on Wednesday and insisted that the procurement of five new Boeing ER 777-300 worth US$1.5 billion were being purchased from Boeing company only after following proper tendering procedure and with the knowledge of the PPRA.

The spokesman had also claimed that the PPRA had vetted their case (contract), a fact that was categorically denied by PPRA. Meanwhile PIA has issued a detailed clarification saying Ansar Abbasi's story is not based on facts.

The PIA spokesman said the correspondent has mixed up the tender floated for acquisition of Narrow Body Aircraft (A) with the agreement with Boeing Co for Boeing 777 aircraft (B), where as the two cases have no link.

Giving out what the spokesman said were the facts, the clarification said: PIA Board has approved PIA's Fleet Plan 2020. For better economics of operation, PIA shall have three types of fleet:

1. B-777 family for operation on USA, Canada, UK, Europe and Saudi Routes of high density;

2. Narrow Body aircraft for operation on all routes to the East Asia, Gulf, Middle East, Regional and High Density Domestic Routes and

3. ATR family for operation on Low Density Domestic and Regional Routes.

"PIA plans to phase out its aged B-737 aircraft, the choice of selecting the Narrow Body Aircraft is open. PIA has not selected any particular aircraft as replacement. Following the PPRA Rules, PIA floated a tender on December 04, 2011, for offers of 39 Narrow Body aircraft to be delivered between 2012 and 2020, as per the schedule of deliveries given in the tender document. The document stated that "two stage two envelope method" shall be followed.

The technical and financial evaluation criteria were part of the tender document placed on PPRA and PIA websites. The advertisement was printed in two international and two Pakistani newspapers/magazines.

The document was very elaborate and the process was completely transparent.

The tenders were opened on 23rd January 2012 (49 days after placement of advertisement and uploading of tender on the websites). None of the proposals met PIA requirements. Financial proposals, therefore, were not even opened.

(B). Boeing 777 Aircraft: The decision to select Boeing 777 family was taken in 2002. PIA operates a fleet of nine 777 aircraft. PIA shall be disposing of five aged B-747 and 12 A-310 aircraft very soon. It needs replacement of capacity shortfall of Boeing 747 and A-310 on the long haul routes. Additional aircraft are also required to meet growing capacity requirements of future. The approved fleet plan, therefore, envisages induction of 7 additional wide body aircraft of Boeing 777 family up to 2020.

Why Boeing 777? PIA is operating B-777. Therefore, logically additional wide body aircraft have to be of the same family. Induction of any other type will be un-economical as additional training and additional spares inventory will increase the cost. Mixed fleet will not allow inter changeability of aircraft as well. PIA, therefore decided to induct aircraft of the same family i.e. Boeing 777.

Boeing made its last offer to PIA in October 2011. The Boeing B-777 aircraft are in demand and it is difficult to get slots from Boeing. PIA and Boeing Co were engaged in negotiations since Oct 2011. After negotiating the concessions and discounts and receiving confirmed offer for deliveries in March to November 2015, PIA decided to finalise the arrangements. MoU was concluded on 15th November 2011 during Dubai Air Show (before floating of tender for Narrow Body) and the agreement for five confirmed 777 and purchase rights for additional five was signed on 14th Feb 2012 at Islamabad.

PPRA Article 42 provides for "Alternate Methods of Procurements", and clause (c) sub-clause ii & iii, elaborate these exceptions as under: Direct Contracting: A procuring agency shall only engage in direct contracting if the following conditions exist, namely: (ii) Only one manufacturer or supplier exists for the required procurement:

Provided that procuring agencies shall specify the appropriate fora, which may authorize procurement of proprietary object after due diligence; and

(iii) Where a change of supplier would oblige the procuring agency to acquire material having different technical specifications or characteristics and would result in incompatibility or disproportionate technical difficulties in operation and maintenance:

Provided that contract or contracts do not exceed three years in duration."

Besides the above 2 conditions, there are five other conditions in this article. As the PPRA article stated CONDITIONS and not any of the conditions PIA sought clarification from PPRA on December 13, 2011. PPRA replied on December 20, 2011 that for invoking rule 42 (c) any one of the condition listed there under, from (i) to (vii), is required to be met.

After receiving the clarification, PIA decided to conclude agreement with Boeing through "Direct Contracting". The agreement was inked on 14th Feb 2012 and not on 21st Feb 2012, as mentioned in the press report.

The correspondent has mixed up the two cases and the date of signing of the agreement is also not correct. Ansar Abbasi adds: The report was based on the letter of Transparency International and The News (a local newspaper) stands by what it had reported.


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## Donatello

Who the F**K is giving PIA this kind of money?

Where the hell 1.5billion dollars came from?


Why are the tax payers being made to do this?

I HATE PIA and I HATE everyone!


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## Nothing

Pakistan should not purchase planes right now.. total purchase price is 8% of current forex reserve. This will bring pressure on PKR as there is big re-payment is schedule for IMF.


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## Imran Khan

Nothing said:


> Pakistan should not purchase planes right now.. total purchase price is 8% of current forex reserve. This will bring pressure on PKR as there is big re-payment is schedule for IMF.



so how will be pakistanis travel all over the world? its good deat pakistan have to move ahead with these 777s and waiting more 320 or 319s deal now for replace 737s

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------




Donatello said:


> Who the F**K is giving PIA this kind of money?
> 
> Where the hell 1.5billion dollars came from?
> 
> 
> Why are the tax payers being made to do this?
> 
> I HATE PIA and I HATE everyone!



CONTROL your horses its our strategic asset can't we let it go drain for few looters .its bad time for every gov owned corporation but it will be stupid to kill them .

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## Nothing

Instead of direct investment government should do partnership with private player, give them rights to be a major international airlines in Pakistan and against it they have to invest certain amount for airport infrastructure. This way ppl will get good service and private companies will manage their finance. I am sure many foreign bank will give them loan if they get permission from Government.

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## Imran Khan

Nothing said:


> Instead of direct investment government should do partnership with private player, give them rights to be a major international airlines in Pakistan and against it they have to invest certain amount for airport infrastructure. This way ppl will get good service and private companies will manage their finance. I am sure many foreign bank will give them loan if they get permission from Government.



airports have nothing to do with PIA . they are under CAA and CAA is doing well at this time 64 air ports in pakistan are working and 4 are under construction . in fact today open a tender of new passenger bridges for karachi multan and new islamabad air port . matter of PIA is concerned but its not fun to keep 180mn public on mercy of public sector air lines for loot them .PIA will remain public property and work no matter how much hard time come .


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## Saleem

@ nothing yeah private deals so more kickbacks and more loot.....what can you expect from this lot.... 

wrt PIA ----nothing cna beat their new "toilet class"---grrr-ate ppl to fly with.....


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## Nothing

Saleem said:


> @ nothing yeah private deals so more kickbacks and more loot.....what can you expect from this lot....
> 
> wrt PIA ----nothing cna beat their new "toilet class"---grrr-ate ppl to fly with.....



I am agree with you and Imran bhai, but my only point is why to bring pressure on Forex right now... if PKR will lose value it will bump up inflation and with increasing oil prices national currency should strong to keep inflation and Forex in check.
I agree that national carrier is asset and it should be in good shape, but timing is wrong. I used to respect PIA more than Air India, back in 90's I read article in local Gujarati paper in India where they mentioned how PIA used retired plane's part to keep others running and people use to come to Karachi airport to welcome new planes in PIA.
There has to be way out to bring back institute with such gr8 past into life.

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## z9-ec

fatman17 said:


> *$500m kickbacks feared in PIA 777 deal*



This report is completely flawed and incorrect. The current market price of Boeing 777-300 ER (extended range) is 298.3 million USD not HALF of 300 mil as being proclaimed. As soon as I read this is coming from Ansar Abbasi and The News I knew something was made up. The decision to go with 777-300ER was probably a right one. I don't know why they didn't opt for 787. However, the likely reason may have been that 787 has a huge production list for orders by other airlines and may have delayed PIA's plan to modernize it's fleet by 2020. Another reason may have been seating capacity as the 787-8 only accommodates 210 passengers where as 777-300ER is 393. Airbus or any new type would have required additional training and etc. 

298.3 x 5 = 1491.5 million USD.

Boeing: Commercial Airplanes -- Jet Prices Home



Donatello said:


> Who the F**K is giving PIA this kind of money?
> 
> Where the hell 1.5billion dollars came from?
> 
> 
> Why are the tax payers being made to do this?
> 
> I HATE PIA and I HATE everyone!




Hold your horses, nothing is known as of yet how they will finance this. Judging by the past, the deal is likely to be financed by an aircraft leasing company such as ALAFCO (they were supposed to finance A320s) or by payment over the next decade till 2020.


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## SHAMK9

can someone change the name of the thread to 'Pakistani Aviation'? people can post updates about private airlines too.


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## razgriz19

even if there are kickbacks (i dont believe it though)
this is probably the best decision PIA made in years!!!
777-300ER is the most fuel efficient aircraft out there right now...

edit 

there are no kickbacks, the figures that Boeing's official website gives is $298.3 million!

help yourself

Boeing: Commercial Airplanes -- Jet Prices Home

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## Pioneerfirst

Imran Khan said:


> so how will be pakistanis travel all over the world? its good deat pakistan have to move ahead with these 777s and waiting more 320 or 319s deal now for replace 737s
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> CONTROL your horses its our strategic asset can't we let it go drain for few looters .its bad time for every gov owned corporation but it will be *stupid to kill them* .



I personally think that now its time to kill all of them, back in 2006 when steel mill was sold for the half of its price all of us were full of anger now the same steel mill has a loss of 110bn PKR in last 5 years and extra 7000 political workers have got jobs.
If at that time still mill had been sold,Nation would have those 110 bn and no one knows how much loss will we suffer in coming years.

Even the most less corrupt countries do not operate corporations,we have heaps of corruption and we do.


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## razgriz19

*Boeing, Pakistan International Airlines Finalize order For Five 777-300ERs*









- Pakistan order also includes purchase rights for five additional 777-300ERs
- Twin-engine jet order completes Pakistan's flag carrier's widebody fleet replacement program

EVERETT, Wash., Feb. 20, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Pakistan International Airlines today announced a firm order for five 777-300ER (extended range) airplanes. Valued at nearly $1.5 billion at list prices, the order also includes purchase rights to Pakistan International Airlines for five additional 777-300ERs.

Based in Karachi, Pakistan International Airlines has been renewing its long-haul fleet to accommodate increased demand for air travel as well as to introduce new routes.

"With passenger traffic in our region accelerating, the new 777-300ER airplanes will continue to deliver the highest standards of technology and passenger comfort to our customers," said Capt. Nadeem Yousufzai, Managing Director of Pakistan International Airlines. "The spacious 777-300ER has been an integral part of our long-range fleet renewal program and its excellent operating economics, long range capability and reliability will allow us to expand into new long-haul markets."

In 2002, Pakistan's flag carrier became the world's first airline to purchase all three passenger models of the 777 Family and in that year was also the launch customer for the 777-200LR (longer range) airplane.

"We are proud that Pakistan International Airlines is a special Boeing customer that continues to invest and trust in the industry-leading capabilities of the 777 family of airplanes," said Marty Bentrott, vice president of Sales for the Middle East, Russia and Central Asia, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Boeing values the excellent partnership that was established over 10 years ago and one which we hope to continue well into the future as the airline progresses with its expansion plans."

2011 was the best-selling year for the 777 program with a net order book of 200 surpassing the previous record of 154 orders set in 2005. The 777-300ER brings new twin-engine efficiency to the airline's long-haul fleet. The airplane is powered by General Electric GE90-115BLs, the world's largest and most powerful commercial jet engines. The airplane also features the Boeing Signature Interior that offers wider seats, wider aisles, more headroom and more seating flexibility.

from official Boeing's Website.

Boeing, Pakistan International Airlines Finalize Order for Five 777-300ERs - Feb 20, 2012


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## Pioneerfirst

razgriz19 said:


> even if there are kickbacks (i dont believe it though)
> this is probably the best decision PIA made in years!!!
> 777-300ER is the most fuel efficient aircraft out there right now...
> 
> edit
> 
> there are no kickbacks, the figures that Boeing's official website gives is $298.3 million!
> 
> help yourself
> 
> Boeing: Commercial Airplanes -- Jet Prices Home



no doubt 777 are good but we do not need them,we already have 8 of them.These planes are large and with a lot more competition ahead(3 more Air lines are starting in 2012) it will be difficult for PIA to get these plans full with passenger.
PIA should have chosen 787 dream liners.777 is present and 787 is future


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## razgriz19

Pioneerfirst said:


> no doubt 777 are good but we do not need them,we already have 8 of them.These planes are large and with a lot more competition ahead(3 more Air lines are starting in 2012) it will be difficult for PIA to get these plans full with passenger.
> PIA should have chosen 787 dream liners.777 is present and 787 is future



No. new airlines WILL NOT have larger aircrafts that could serve US and Europe, so that means PIA needs these 777s!
and dont worry A 310 will get replaced by 787. Each aircraft is designed with a planned route in mind, 787 has a different role than 777, but almost as same as A310 so dont worry.
new airlines would give a hard time to PIA for regional flights only. thats's why PIA needs to replace those 737s and get more fuel effient A-320s or A319s.


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## SHAMK9

Pioneerfirst said:


> no doubt 777 are good but we do not need them,we already have 8 of them.These planes are large and with a lot more competition ahead(3 more Air lines are starting in 2012) it will be difficult for PIA to get these plans full with passenger.
> PIA should have chosen 787 dream liners.777 is present and 787 is future


PIA should not order 787s ASAP, 787 comes with lots of cons, for example, the body is made of carbon fibre and if 787 scratches its tail on the runway, the airline has to replace the whole tail section, my suggestion to PIA is that they order 8 777-300ers, order a320/a321s and to wait and see how 787 functions in other airlines. airblue is interested in 787/a350 too


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## SHAMK9

according to some members on pakistan aviation forum, bhoja air is supposed to start its operations next week with 3 737-200s and 1 737-400


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## SHAMK9

bhoja air started its operations today, flying from karachi to islamabad with a 737-400 and 4 737-200s


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## Jango

KARACHI: As a consequence of increasingly unprofessional and incompetent management, the fears regarding the devastation of the national airline are finally crystallising as the air safety certificate granted by the European Union (EU) to the PIA has been suspended with immediate effect. Sources have claimed that PIA&#8217;s Europe bound flights may also be cancelled in the near future.

EU suspends PIA safety certificate

yet another landmark blow for PIA, Great people to fly with. At least the 777's could have been in good shape!

Only if the people would have stopped doing political rallying and Unionizing PIA could the airline have been a bit better.


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## SHAMK9

they got their lesson for dancing and enchanting political party slogans on the airports across pakistan, i hope the new management kicks all of these retarded employees out and bring back the pia that we all want


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## eik_pagall

Better to fly with Bhoja now


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## razgriz19

eik_pagall said:


> Better to fly with Bhoja now



in 737-200 and 400, i dont think so.

these aircrafts are OLD, i dont know how they're still flying them


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## SHAMK9

razgriz19 said:


> in 737-200 and 400, i dont think so.
> 
> these aircrafts are OLD, i dont know how they're still flying them


its a new airline, give it some time, it will take on pia


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## eik_pagall

SHAMK9 said:


> its a new airline, give it some time, it will take on pia


 It's not new
it's pretty old


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## SHAMK9

air indus plans to start following routes 
Bahawalpur
Dera Ghazi Khan
Faisalabad
Islamabad
Karachi
Lahore
Multan
Peshawar
Quetta
Sialkot
Skardu


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The main reason why Pakistan may have chosen the "extended Range" option is to cut the need to land and service in Middle of Europe and instead focus on DIRECT flights 

a) Cut the European Airport Tax
b) Cut the overhead for other Fees 


Also the Extended range , allows PIA - to give more direct flights faster shorter experience to customers and there is no RISK of European Embargo on PIA as it happened before , costing Billions in lost revenue to PIA in short term and long term - view of brand name of PIA in public's view 

European sanctions tarnished PIA reputations that it was

a) Not Safe
b) Not well furnished for entertainment 
c) Not on reliable 

So , this move to get 5 new Long Range Boeing will go a long way to enhance view of PIA in International Market 
and also additional 10 more planes will help move PIA to new horizons

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## Jango

Rao to lead PIA

Rao to lead PIA | The Nation

A step to have a better capable person in charge!


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## Edevelop

Man we shouldn't have changed tail design.

This previous one is good. Do we still have it?

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## Jango

current one is different now. Some planes still have it I think, but it is going to be changed. Now almost all have a solid green tail, with a Crescent and star on it.

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## Edevelop




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## SHAMK9

*airblue updates*
according to a news article, airblue will induct 3 more leased planes in its fleet, 1 a320 and 2 a330's or a340's.
Business : Airblue starts Istanbul service



cb4 said:


> Man we shouldn't have changed tail design.
> 
> This previous one is good. Do we still have it?


some of the planes still carry that livery, the new livery is much much better, the old livery represented just pakistani cities, the new livery represents pakistan has one and united, the new livery is very catchy and the planes have PAKISTAN written on their bellies

*shaheen air updates
*shaheen's second 737-400 painted in its full livery and ready for delivery


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## Jango

Daily Express News Story

two planes narrowly escape a collision on the runway.

Clearly a ATC fault here. Could have been serious, thank God nothing happened.

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## SHAMK9

this 767 will be leased by shaheen air, i think they will start using it on European routes


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## SHAMK9

this 737-400 will soon go to bhoja air


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## Jango

yet another move by USA. After Hafiz Saeed another pressure tactic.

Currently PIA flights stop for about an hour and a half at Manchester, but now they will be there for about 5 or so hours, and hence more airport charges, parking charges etc etc.

PIA should quit this route now, this is justa disgrace.

A result of back licking the US!


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## Edevelop

nuclearpak said:


> yet another move by USA. After Hafiz Saeed another pressure tactic.
> 
> Currently PIA flights stop for about an hour and a half at Manchester, but now they will be there for about 5 or so hours, and hence more airport charges, parking charges etc etc.
> 
> PIA should quit this route now, this is justa disgrace.
> 
> A result of back licking the US!



Well there are just 2 flights per week that go to U.S and that to, towards New York only. Quiting that will do no harm


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## Jango

cb4 said:


> Well there are just 2 flights per week that go to U.S and that to, towards New York only. Quiting that will do no harm...



Definitely. The current routes, with a 5 hour stop at Manchester will not be profitable for PIA any more.

It will incur heavy losses.


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## Edevelop

nuclearpak said:


> Definitely. The current routes, with a 5 hour stop at Manchester will not be profitable for PIA any more.
> 
> It will incur heavy losses.



Most Pakistani-Americans in general are starting to feel comfortable to travel to Pakistan via Toronto. Over here, PIA tickets get sold out fast because of them....
I think Air Blue has started to pickup the pace. It also goes to Manchester...


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## SHAMK9

cb4 said:


> Most Pakistani-Americans in general are starting to feel comfortable to travel to Pakistan via Toronto. Over here, PIA tickets get sold out fast because of them....
> I think Air Blue has started to pickup the pace. It also goes to Manchester...


there are currently 3 weekly flights to new york and PIA will increase them upto 4 or 5 weekly, shaheen is perfectly in line to start european and north american routes, airblue is all a big fuss


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## Jango

London warns PIA against delays in Olympic rush

KARACHI: The airport authorities of Britain have given a stern warning to some airlines including the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) that their landing rights will be cancelled in case of any late arrivals and departures during the Olympics period.

London warns PIA against delays in Olympic rush - thenews.com.pk

Let's see if the planning department can get some good work in now.


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## Liquidmetal

PIA is a national disgrace.

How it can allow flights without the proper maintenance and safety checks is nothing short of criminal. 

Anywhere else the MD and other senior managers would have been hauled in front of the courts for criminal negligence.

Our airlines need to study Quantas and other such airlines where they have implemented systems that help predict problems and hence can be sorted out before the aircraft has an accident.

It is also shocking that the CAA did not ban PIA from flying after it found all the safety and maintenance problems.

In fact a company should not be in the flying business if it's culture is not safety and maintenance as well as customer service.
In fact if PIA cannot be bothered to carry out it's legal obligation why should it bother with customer service which of course it does not. Hence it is once of the worst airlines in the world. Shame for us.


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## fatman17

*Russia brings the Superjet to Pakistan*

Aircra*ft maker Sukhoi hopes to tap local aviati*on market. 

By Shaheryar Mirza

Published: May 9, 2012

PRICE TAG: $31-35m is the price of a Sukhoi Superjet 100. PHOTO: AFP 


KARACHI: A Russian aircraft manufacturer is in Karachi to market the Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ-100); a narrow-bodied aircraft with a dual class cabin that can transport 100 passengers over regional routes.

Russian Consul General Andrey Demidov had called a press conference in this regard, which was addressed by the Public Relations Assistant of the Consul General Albert T Fayzullov.

The plane first touched down at the Jinnah International Airport in Karachi on May 4.

Fayzullov revealed that Air Indus &#8211; a domestic carrier about to commence operations in the coming months &#8211; is in talks with the aircraft manufacturer for three of the jets.

Each jet carries a price tag of around $31-35 million.

The plane is being marketed by Sukhoi &#8211; a major military aircraft manufacturer in Russia &#8211; in Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar.

The Russian state carrier Aeroflot has purchased over thirty aircraft for its own use from Sukhoi which claims that the Superjet 100 employs the latest technology and is safe and fuel efficient.

&#8220;The aircraft is comparable in comfort to Airbus and even Boeing,&#8221; said Fayzullov, while addressing the press conference.

Sukhoi claims that the plane has an 8-10% efficiency advantage on cash operational costs over competitors; reduced fuel burn per seat; a new engine designed especially for the SSJ 100; higher maintenance intervals; lower operation costs; spacious cabins; wide seats; and lower noise and emissions.

Fayzullov added that the plane comes at a more competitive price than similar capacity planes in the market, and that many have shown interest in purchasing the plane. Sukhoi manufactures military aircraft and is traditionally famous for its fighter jets.

The company says that it is marketing the Superjet in Pakistan and other regional countries for their emerging markets. It says the younger demographic is becoming increasingly capable of travelling by air because of improving economic conditions, which it believes will bolster demand for carriers.

Prevented from take off

The demo for the plane was, however, prevented by the Civil Aviation Authority on grounds of technical issues. Fayzullov, who covered for Demidov due to the latter&#8217;s departure following the delay, said &#8220;the plane was supposed to make demo flights &#8230; but wasn&#8217;t able to because the pilot fell ill. He was even taken to the hospital for this.&#8221;

A businessman in attendance at the press conference disputed this claim; saying that there was actually a fault with the plane due to which the CAA did not allow it to take off.


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## Zabaniyah

They shouldn't be flying pre-737NG models.

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## SHAMK9

Zabaniya said:


> They shouldn't be flying pre-737NG models.


agreed, PIA is still 'deciding' between 737-800 and a320 family


----------



## Jango

AirBlue have reportedly got 2 A340's, will be operational by around late june, early july. If reports are to be believed.

Seems an awkward decision.


----------



## Jango

A Passenger bridge has collapsed at Karachi airport!!!

Hydraulic failure. A B-747 HAS SUSTAINED DAMAGE>


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## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> A Passenger bridge has collapsed at Karachi airport!!!
> 
> Hydraulic failure. A B-747 HAS SUSTAINED DAMAGE>


didnt CAA order new jet bridges for Karachi airport?


----------



## Edevelop

PIA's 39+5 aircrafts doesnt sound great, especially when you have over 60+ destinations

We have: 
9+5 (order) Boeing 777 : (North America, U.K, Tokyo Range)
5 Boeing 747-300 : (retiring age--NOT allowed in Europe)
6 Boeing 737-300 : (retiring age --- Middile East/Domestic Range)
7 ATR-42: (Domestic Range)
12 AirBus A-310 : (Middle East Range/Domestic Range)

I think we need something more like Airbus A-320/ A-321 that can be used to reach destinations like:
Milan, Frankfurt, cocanhagen, Oslo, Barcelona, Istanbul, Tehran, Kualalumpur, Dhakha, Hong Kong, Bejing, Bankok.

And i think we also need something like Boeing 737-600/ 737-700 that can 
replace old Boeing 737-300 and Boeing 747-300 to get to Riyadh, Jeddah, Dammam, Dubai, Shahrjah, Muscat, Bahrain, Doha, Kuwait City

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## Jango

SHAMK9 said:


> didnt CAA order new jet bridges for Karachi airport?



It was cancelled.







Cockpit of a 747 of PIA at JEddah.

Courtesy member AN of another forum.

Now that is a cockpit. The planes of today have been reduced to mere video games!!


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## SQ8

nuclearpak said:


> Cockpit of a 747 of PIA at JEddah.
> 
> Courtesy member AN of another forum.
> 
> Now that is a cockpit. The planes of today have been reduced to mere video games!!



that cockpit is also a headache to manage.. whereas the cockpit of somthing like the B-777 LR is a joy to be in.. user friendly and all.

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## Edevelop

nuclearpak said:


> It was cancelled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cockpit of a 747 of PIA at JEddah.
> 
> Courtesy member AN of another forum.
> 
> Now that is a cockpit. The planes of today have been reduced to mere video games!!



I have sat in the same PIA 747 Cockpit all the way from Karachi to Riyadh. It was a great experience.
P.S. this cockpit really was painful to watch and to control by 2+1 Pilots....


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## razgriz19

nuclearpak said:


> AirBlue have reportedly got 2 A340's, will be operational by around late june, early july. If reports are to be believed.
> 
> Seems an awkward decision.



not really. Their flights to Europe are going extremely well so im guessing they want to expand their destinations by using the jets.

but i personally think 777 or even a330 would've been a better choice.


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## Jango

The reason I said awkward was because of the four engines. It greatly increases the cost and also the checks. 

A A330 might have been a better option.


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## Jango

Oscar said:


> that cockpit is also a headache to manage.. whereas the cockpit of somthing like the B-777 LR is a joy to be in.. user friendly and all.


 
The emphasis is now more on user friendly, and reduce the workload on the pilot.

You have some MFD's, integrated panels, auto-pilot, and voila.


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## Jango

..::Shaheen Air International::..

*A open invitation for A330 pilots.*

Good news here. SHaheen getting A330's, AirBlue reportedly in the pipeline for A340.

And quite a handsome salary for the Captain of A330.

Looks like A330 is going to be bought from Malaysian airlines.

good choice to go with A333.

So, Shaheen going to expand to Europe???

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## Jango

Investigation report of the Fokker crash published, on CAA website.

:: CAA Pakistan ::

It seems more thorough and well made than the air blue one.


----------



## Nishan_101

cb4 said:


> PIA's 39+5 aircrafts doesnt sound great, especially when you have over 60+ destinations
> 
> We have:
> 9+5 (order) Boeing 777 : (North America, U.K, Tokyo Range)
> 5 Boeing 747-300 : (retiring age--NOT allowed in Europe)
> 6 Boeing 737-300 : (retiring age --- Middile East/Domestic Range)
> *7 ATR-42: (Domestic Range)*
> 12 AirBus A-310 : (Middle East Range/Domestic Range)
> 
> I think we need something more like Airbus A-320/ A-321 that can be used to reach destinations like:
> Milan, Frankfurt, cocanhagen, Oslo, Barcelona, Istanbul, Tehran, Kualalumpur, Dhakha, Hong Kong, Bejing, Bankok.
> 
> And i think we also need something like Boeing 737-600/ 737-700 that can
> replace old Boeing 737-300 and Boeing 747-300 to get to Riyadh, Jeddah, Dammam, Dubai, Shahrjah, Muscat, Bahrain, Doha, Kuwait City


 
Why they gone for 7 ATR-42 if we have domestic flights, why not gone for Chinese models they are preety cheap and reliable too.

And may be like 21 in 3 batches of 7 aircrafts.


----------



## Jango

Nishan_101 said:


> Why they gone for 7 ATR-42 if we have domestic flights, why not gone for Chinese models they are preety cheap and reliable too.
> 
> And may be like 21 in 3 batches of 7 aircrafts.



Do we always have to go to China???

THey are different aircraft.


----------



## Nishan_101

SHAMK9 said:


> agreed, PIA is still 'deciding' between 737-800 and a320 family



I think they should give a try to the new Russian ones that might be cheap too and can became a relationship Bridge for us as well.


----------



## SHAMK9

Nishan_101 said:


> I think they should give a try to the new Russian ones that might be cheap too and can became a relationship Bridge for us as well.


russian and chinese ones are too small, 737 and a320 family will get the job done



nuclearpak said:


> ..::Shaheen Air International::..
> 
> *A open invitation for A330 pilots.*
> 
> Good news here. SHaheen getting A330's, AirBlue reportedly in the pipeline for A340.
> 
> And quite a handsome salary for the Captain of A330.
> 
> Looks like A330 is going to be bought from Malaysian airlines.
> 
> good choice to go with A333.
> 
> So, Shaheen going to expand to Europe???


shaheen wanted to expand its services to north america too, im told that they will get 5 of a330-300's but its still a rumour, on the other hand, airblue is getting few q400's for chitral, gilgit service


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## Jango

Shaheen A333 is confirmed, considering that a invitation for pilots has been put up on their website.

AIrBlue is also in for some A340's.


----------



## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> Shaheen A333 is confirmed, considering that a invitation for pilots has been put up on their website.
> 
> AIrBlue is also in for some A340's.


bad choice for airblue, werent they supposed to be deciding between 787 and a350 few years before the islamabad accident?


----------



## v9s

*PIA to acquire five new planes*

Islamabad&#8212;PIA has signed a purchase agreement with Boeing Company for acquisition of five Boeing 777 aircraft.

PIA Chairman, Air Chief Marshal(Retd) Rao Qamar Suleman said this at the 55th Annual General Meeting (AGM) Saturday. PIA Shareholders participated in the 55th AGM and put forth their suggestions raising searching queries for turning around the National Airline.

Addressing the Shareholders, PIA Chairman said that during 2011, despite many challenges PIA added new destinations including Zahedan, Colombo, and Madina. He said that in the face of competition, PIA managed to retain its international market share of 39 per cent and increased its domestic market share to 76 per cent.However, during 2011, slow economic growth in developed economies placed pressure on aviation business across the globe resulting in economic uncertainty. International travel growth remained depressed and showed mixed performance across regions. The outgoing year witnessed an increase in average jet fuel price from USD 80 per barrel in 2010 to USD 110 per barrel in 2011. PIA was exposed to volatility in the price of jet fuel. &#8212;Online

PIA to acquire five new planes


----------



## SHAMK9

v9s said:


> *PIA to acquire five new planes*
> 
> Islamabad&#8212;PIA has signed a purchase agreement with Boeing Company for acquisition of five Boeing 777 aircraft.
> 
> PIA Chairman, Air Chief Marshal(Retd) Rao Qamar Suleman said this at the 55th Annual General Meeting (AGM) Saturday. PIA Shareholders participated in the 55th AGM and put forth their suggestions raising searching queries for turning around the National Airline.
> 
> Addressing the Shareholders, PIA Chairman said that during 2011, despite many challenges PIA added new destinations including Zahedan, Colombo, and Madina. He said that in the face of competition, PIA managed to retain its international market share of 39 per cent and increased its domestic market share to 76 per cent.However, during 2011, slow economic growth in developed economies placed pressure on aviation business across the globe resulting in economic uncertainty. International travel growth remained depressed and showed mixed performance across regions. The outgoing year witnessed an increase in average jet fuel price from USD 80 per barrel in 2010 to USD 110 per barrel in 2011. PIA was exposed to volatility in the price of jet fuel. &#8212;Online
> 
> PIA to acquire five new planes


very old news


----------



## SHAMK9

bhoja air's license has by CAA until they get 3 proper aircrafts


----------



## pakfoj

can someone please help me!!!!
I am 18 years old and becoming a pilot here in the united states. Once Im done I plan to move to pakistan and join PIA as a pilot. can someone give me some info about the salary and the benefits? or anything else worth knowing before joining? 
A reply will be appreciated!


----------



## SHAMK9

pakfoj said:


> can someone please help me!!!!
> I am 18 years old and becoming a pilot here in the united states. Once Im done I plan to move to pakistan and join PIA as a pilot. can someone give me some info about the salary and the benefits? or anything else worth knowing before joining?
> A reply will be appreciated!


i plan to do the same but all i know right now is that you cant just walk into PIA with no flying hours at all, you will have to fly for domestic US carriers untill you get the hours needed to join PIA

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## Imran Khan

pakfoj said:


> can someone please help me!!!!
> I am 18 years old and becoming a pilot here in the united states. Once Im done I plan to move to pakistan and join PIA as a pilot. can someone give me some info about the salary and the benefits? or anything else worth knowing before joining?
> A reply will be appreciated!


if you love pakistan leave PIA alone its already hell over staff dear


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## Jango

Bhoja Air flight operations stopped.

Bhoja has 2 aircraft now, against the mandatory three required for flight operations. They are now trying to get a DC-9 parked at DXB operational!!!

Koi haal hai.

A DC-9 being prepped just to fill the numbers,.


----------



## pakfoj

SHAMK9 said:


> i plan to do the same but all i know right now is that you cant just walk into PIA with no flying hours at all, you will have to fly for domestic US carriers untill you get the hours needed to join PIA



So PIA only hires experienced pilots? I mean once I have my licence with all the ratings, i will have about 300 hours and will be fully certified. do u think I should work in US for some time and then go to PK.


----------



## SHAMK9

pakfoj said:


> So PIA only hires experienced pilots? I mean once I have my licence with all the ratings, i will have about 300 hours and will be fully certified. do u think I should work in US for some time and then go to PK.


I'm not sure what advice to give you, I myself am a high school student, I suggest that you talk to other professionals before making a decision, yes PIA hires experienced pilots as far as I know, most of them are airforce pilots, but I do want to suggest that you should work for an American or foreign airline first, PIA right now is full of employees and they won't take more any time soon.


----------



## Edevelop

nuclearpak said:


> Bhoja Air flight operations stopped.
> 
> Bhoja has 2 aircraft now, against the mandatory three required for flight operations.* They are now trying to get a DC-9 parked at DXB operational!!!
> 
> Koi haal hai*.
> 
> A DC-9 being prepped just to fill the numbers,.


----------



## pakfoj

SHAMK9 said:


> I'm not sure what advice to give you, I myself am a high school student, I suggest that you talk to other professionals before making a decision, yes PIA hires experienced pilots as far as I know, most of them are airforce pilots, but I do want to suggest that you should work for an American or foreign airline first,* PIA right now is full of employees and they won't take more any time soon.*


bro I heard that PIA was rehiring retired pilots due to pilot shortages + corruption is a big problem when it comes to getting a job there. thanks for sharing ur knowledge.!

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## SHAMK9

rumour is that PIA is restarting Chicago via Amsterdam in july/august and plans to start Seoul via Tokyo


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## SHAMK9

PIA has invited bids for dry lease of following aircraft:

4 x Boeing 737-400 - delivery required in September 2012
4 x Boeing 737-800 - delivery required in September 2012
2 x Boeing 777 - delivery required in September 2012 (aircraft variant not specified)

http://piac.com.pk/PIA_Business/tenders/Advertisement-drylease.pdf


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## Jango

PIA to dry lease B777, B737-800 & B737-400.

the jumbos are in pretty bad shape. Looks like a replacement for them in B-777.

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## Imran Khan

good these 10 will fill the gap of damn parts needed 11 grounded aircraft's .


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## Jango

http://piac.com.pk/PIA_Business/tenders/Tender Document of Four 737-800 Aircraft_15062012.pdf

The tender details.


----------



## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> http://piac.com.pk/PIA_Business/tenders/Tender Document of Four 737-800 Aircraft_15062012.pdf
> 
> The tender details.



they changed it look PIA web now 8 737-800 and 2 B-777 total 10 in three months

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## Jango

The tender is of 4 738's though.

Could you post the link of the site?


----------



## fatman17

*Airblue set to become first Airbus A340 operator in Pakistan*


Staff Reporter


IslamabadAirblue, Pakistans largest private sector airline announced today that it has completed an agreement to expand its fleet by leasing Two Airbus A340-300 aircraft from Los Angeles based International Lease Finance Corporation (ILFC).

The addition of these wide-body Airbus A340 aircraft to our current fleet of single-aisle Airbus A320 family aircraft is great news for Airblue; it is part of our expansion plan to provide additional service to our international destinations and open up new markets. These aircraft will be deployed on long-haul routes, allowing us to continue providing quality service while proudly representing Pakistan worldwide, said Tariq Chaudhary, Chairman and CEO of Airblue.

The aircraft will have an all Economy configuration of 342 seats and will be equipped with CFM engines. The induction of the 4-engined Airbus A340 aircraft is a major step for aviation in Pakistan and represents the first time that a private sector airline has inducted modern wide-body aircraft into its fleet. The aircraft are scheduled for delivery in late August this year.

The Airbus A340 aircraft has crew commonality with the Airbus A320 aircraft providing for greater efficiencies; and the extension of the Airbus operating and maintenance philosophy allows single-aisle and wide body aircraft to be operated with standardized procedures.



nuclearpak said:


> The tender is of 4 738's though.
> 
> Could you post the link of the site?



whats a 738?


----------



## Jango

fatman17 said:


> whats a 738?



Boeing 737-800.

Similarly, a 777-200 is called 772.


----------



## SHAMK9

Shaheen air's fan page updates that its getting 2 a330-300s and 12 737-400's


----------



## Timon

SHAMK9 said:


> rumour is that PIA is restarting Chicago via Amsterdam in july/august and plans to start Seoul via Tokyo



warka dang


----------



## SHAMK9

Shaheen's first a330-300


----------



## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> The tender is of 4 738's though.
> 
> Could you post the link of the site?








http://piac.com.pk/PIA_Business/tenders/Addendum_23062012.pdf


----------



## SHAMK9

Current ISB airport, look how crowded it is 
All sizes |


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## SHAMK9

Shaheen's a330-300, not sure if interior will remain the same


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## Jango

i think the interior configuration will remain the same.

BTW, is this at karachi airport?


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## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> i think the interior configuration will remain the same.
> 
> BTW, is this at karachi airport?


nope, it's at manilla airport, notice the a380 at the back, it will be in karachi by now


----------



## Jango

Shaheen air has bought AP-BKF as well from Bhoja air.

It is a B737-400.





AP-BKF being painted from Bhoja to Shaheen Colours | Facebook


----------



## Jango

The bird has touched down!











Shaheen And Air Blue expanding very rapidly now. PIA also with their new acquisitions of 777's and jumbos and B-737's is expanding.

Good lookout overall.


----------



## Jango

*Airblue's new A-340-300 ready to be painted.*


----------



## SHAMK9

*Pakistan&#8217;s Airblue to double fleet within two years*
Pakistani carrier Airblue has plans to double its fleet to 12 aircraft within the next two years.

The carrier wants to add four 70-seater turboprops to its fleet by early 2013, says Airblue's general manager for commercial, Raheel Ahmed.

It is considering the ATR 72 and the Bombardier Q400, though the airline has not decided whether the aircraft will be bought or leased.

Airblue is scheduled to take delivery of two Airbus A340-300s in early September. These aircraft are on a five-year lease from International Lease Finance Corporation.

Ahmed says that the A340s will have 342 seats in a single class configuration. The aircraft will be deployed on a direct Islamabad-Manchester service, replacing the existing Islamabad-Istanbul-Manchester route.

In August, the airline took delivery of one Airbus A320, which will be used to up frequencies on its domestic routes.

As part of its network expansion plans, Airblue may launch new destinations in Europe, Middle East and China. A timeline has not been specified for these plans. Ahmed adds that the carrier aims to be a major player on services to Europe.

According to the Flightglobal Ascend online database, Airblue operates four A319 and two A320 aircraft in its fleet.
Pakistan


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## SHAMK9

Airblue to increase frequencies to Lahore and Islamabad from Karachi.
Number of flights increasing from September 1.

Karachi-Islamabad - 4 flights daily



Islamabad-Karachi - 4 flights daily


Karachi-Lahore - 3 flights daily



Lahore-Karachi - 3 flights daily


----------



## Jango

PIA plane skids off Lahore airport runway &#8211; The Express Tribune

LAHORE: The passengers and crew members remained unhurt when a Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) plane skidded off the runway on its landing due to heavy rain, said a PIA spokesperson on Friday.
The ATR plane, flight PK-653, was on a routine flight from Islamabad to Lahore and was carrying 42 passengers and four crew members.
According to PIA, the pilot controlled the plane when it skidded but the main gear of the aircraft collapsed.
The PIA said that the damage of the aircraft will be assessed and an inquiry will be conducted into the incident.
The runway for larger aircrafts at the airport, on which the incident took place, was closed down immediately after, however the other runway for smaller aircrafts remains functional.
Some earlier reports suggested that the plane had made a crash landing and the flight staff and passengers sustained minor injuries. However, the PIA spokesperson negated the reports.
Earlier today, a Lahore-bound PIA plane made an emergency landing in Quetta due to technical problems.
It was earlier reported that almost a third of PIA flights have suffered delays this year due to technical and administrative reasons, dealing a severe blow to the national flag carrier&#8217;s business.
Correction: An earlier version of this story stated the plane was resting on its &#8220;left&#8221; instead &#8220;right&#8221; side. The error is regretted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like MLG collapsed. One runway (18R/36L) is being used for flights of aircraft upto A320 category. The runway 18L/36R is closed for the night, probably waiting for the team and lifts to come from Karachi.

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## SHAMK9

why would they even allow planes to take off in heavy rain? rains get pretty bad in this season, we learnt in the hard way by airblue crash


----------



## imiakhtar

SHAMK9 said:


> why would they even allow planes to take off in heavy rain? rains get pretty bad in this season, we learnt in the hard way by airblue crash


 
Are you incapable of reading? The aircraft was landing, not taking off.

Secondly, thousands of aircraft t/o and land in inclement weather and do so perfectly safely.

Lastly, what this incident shows, like previous accidents in Pakistan is the general poor training standards of Pakistani pilots. Unfortunately, due to it's structure, the CAA is limited in what in can do.

By the way, this is the second time a PIA ATR has gone off the runway in less than 18 months. The first time the weather was good.

The Pakistani CAA and Pakistani airlines need to be independently audited. Swallow your pride and get some foreigners to do it.

Funnily enough. DGCA and the Indians have the same lingering issues.


----------



## SHAMK9

AirBlue to start flying to Birmingham airport and Luton airport. London heathrow is a possibility and so is Jeddah.


----------



## Jango

Service with the A-340?

BTW, any source.?

Well hello there. NLC to set up airline, for Cargo ops and low cost pax service.

http://www.nlc.com.pk/websitef.nsf/job/criteria03sep12.pdf?OpenFileResource

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## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> Service with the A-340?
> 
> BTW, any source.?
> 
> Well hello there. NLC to set up airline, for Cargo ops and low cost pax service.
> 
> http://www.nlc.com.pk/websitef.nsf/job/criteria03sep12.pdf?OpenFileResource


Their facebook fan page is the only source for now, i guess Manchester and Birmingham would be served by a340 non stop and London Luton will be served via Istanbul with a320 family.


----------



## AUz

Pakistanis are the people that migrate to other countries alot ...Our civil aviation needs to be really good lol...


As Air-Blue and Shaheen will expand....PIA will face competition and it will also improve its service! So overall...a good trend.

This time , PIA did a commendable job in Umrah Services....

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## Jango

Karachi is being turned into a second hub for Emirates.

5 flights a day. 1 daily to lahore and Isl. So that makes it, 49 flights a week to these cities. Pak Airspace taken over by emirates literally.

PIA really needs to up it's game in this sector.

Only three destinations are serced with 5 flights a day by Emirates, London Heathrow, Karachi, and Delhi.

Similarly, the top 5 pax loads for Emirates.

1-India
2-UK
3-Saudi Arabia
4-Pakistan.

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## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> Karachi is being turned into a second hub for Emirates.
> 
> 5 flights a day. 1 daily to lahore and Isl. So that makes it, 49 flights a week to these cities. Pak Airspace taken over by emirates literally.
> 
> PIA really needs to up it's game in this sector.
> 
> Only three destinations are serced with 5 flights a day by Emirates, London Heathrow, Karachi, and Delhi.
> 
> Similarly, the top 5 pax loads for Emirates.
> 
> 1-India
> 2-UK
> 3-Saudi Arabia
> 4-Pakistan.


PIA should make new islamabad airport its hub and try to win over karachi again.


----------



## Jango

SHAMK9 said:


> PIA should make new islamabad airport its hub and try to win over karachi again.



I think Karachi is a lost cause for international flights.

PIA should now take control of Lahore, and then try to make Isl the new hub, as you said. Not as a Engineering and fleet hub, but certainly for the flights. With the intoduction of newer 737's and 777's, this can be expected.

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## Jango

LAHORE  The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has launched a started probe into the Fridays accident when a Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) plane skidded off the runway. 
Safety Investigation Board (SIB) President Air Commodore (r) Basit visited the Lahore airport and recorded the statements of the crew including pilot and copilot. The defense secretary also visited the Lahore airport. 
According to the sources, pilot Faheem said in his initial statement that the plane descended quickly, touched the overrun area and rammed into a foundation of the runway constructed for arresting barrier of the PAF planes. 
However, a CAA senior official said the statement could be verified after calibration of the plane. 
A PIA Engineering Branch official said that it could not be asserted that length of runway was insufficient for landing of an ATR plane. He said that runway length required for the landing of ATR was 4,000-foot, whereas the length of runway of Allama Iqbal International Airport was more than 8,000-foot. 
He said the rain could not be cited as a reason for the accident because the planes landed amid the downpour in South East Asian states like India, Bangladesh, Burma, Thailand and Malaysia. He, however, said heavy crosswind mattered in such circumstances. 
The official said the most probable cause of this accident was the defective Anti Skid Braking System. Another technical officer said that in case of a thin layer of water covering runway, a plane makes hard landing at high speed and aquaplaning could take place generating frictional heat that could damage braking system. 
Air Vice Marshal Mushaf Mir in an inquiry revealed that some pilots had been recruited against up to Rs4 million graft per head during the PPP previous government and former PIA managing director Ijaz Haroon was involved in the case.
Well-placed sources said had First Officer Raheel, the newly-recruited officers of the PIA, controlled the plane, it would have been a violation of Aviation Rules. Also, authorities opened the Lahore airport runaway was opened for all sorts of flights at 7:30 pm. An officer of CAA said on anonymity said the plane had been repaired and it would be removed from the scene on Sunday (today).

Probe into Friday


----------



## SHAMK9

Shaheen's second A330-300

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## Jango

SHAMK9 said:


> Shaheen's second A330-300


 
This aircraft in this livery= Best looking aircraft in pakistan.

The B-777 of PIA in old livery was also very very good.

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## Safriz

PIA leasing two Boeing 747 from Saudi Airlines - thenews.com.pk

PIA to purchase five Boeing 777 aircraft: Defence Minister | DAWN.COM


----------



## SHAMK9

*AirBlue a340*

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## SHAMK9

Another shot of AirBlue's a340

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## fatman17

Saturday, September 15, 2012 


*PIA flights hit technical snags (bird hits)*

Staff Report

KARACHI: Pakistan International Airline (PIA) was forced to change its domestic flight schedule and cancellation of one domestic flight as two of its aircraft were rendered technical due to bird hit at Islamabad and Karachi airports, PIA spokesman said on Friday.
Flight PK 390, a Boeing 737 on a scheduled flight from Lahore to Islamabad was bird hit in the late afternoon while landing at Benazir Bhutto International Airport, Islamabad. 
The same aircraft was to perform PK 369 from Islamabad to Karachi, due to non-availability of aircraft, flight PK 369 with 118 passengers had to be cancelled. These passengers were adjusted on PK 309 and an incoming international flight PK 853 which will now bring them to Karachi from Islamabad. Passengers on PK 309 will reach Karachi by 9pm while PK 853 will arrive at 3am in the morning (Saturday). 
Another flight PK 307 arriving from Lahore to Karachi late Thursday night was also bird hit at Jinnah International Airport, Karachi due to which an Airbus A310 aircraft was declared technical and the aircraft is being repaired at the PIA Engineering facility.


----------



## cloud_9

PIA flight lands back in Karachi due to technical fault


> KARACHI: A PIA flight, scheduled to go to Islamabad from Karachi, landed back at its departure airport on experiencing a technical fault, reported Express News on Monday.
> The flight was already 20 minutes late and was landed back 15 minutes after its departure.


----------



## SHAMK9

cloud_9 said:


> PIA flight lands back in Karachi due to technical fault


PIA needs to get the 737-300s and a310s out of service ASAP, these technical glitches are becoming a norm these days.


----------



## Edevelop

Air Blue and Shaheen Air are really improving. I would like to see more destinations from them. 



SHAMK9 said:


> PIA needs to get the 737-300s and a310s out of service ASAP, these technical glitches are becoming a norm these days.



PIA needs to replace 737-300 with new generation 737-800. I heard they were placing an order. Any news?


----------



## Fieldmarshal

cb4 said:


> Air Blue and Shaheen Air are really improving. I would like to see more destinations from them.
> 
> 
> 
> PIA needs to replace 737-300 with new generation 737-800. I heard they were placing an order. Any news?



they will be here in a couple of months


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## fatman17

Wednesday, September 19, 2012 


*PIA MD Rao Qamar Suleman resigns*


ISLAMABAD: Air Chief Marshal (r) Rao Qamar Suleman on Tuesday resigned as Managing Director of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) citing health concerns* (corruption in PIA)* He was appointed as managing director in March and elevated to the position of chairman and CEO in May, said a PIA spokesman. He reorganised top management, brought about other changes and also prepared the PIA Business Plan with the consultation of the employees of the corporation. The government fully supported and backed Air Chief Marshal (r) in all his endeavours to revitalise the national flag carrier. However, due to health reasons, Suleman felt that he may not be able to do justice with his assignment. Therefore, he requested the federal government to relieve him. The government reluctantly accepted his resignation. Spokesman said the air chief marshal thanked the federal government for accepting his request. Meanwhile, PIA Deputy Managing Director Captain Junaid Younus will be acting managing director following the resignation of Rao Qamar, the PIA spokesman said. The Ministry of Defence issued a notification on Tuesday. app


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## Jango

I think it was not only health reasons.

He was not getting the authority that a Chairman or MD should get, and instead, the airline had a strong influence of the Jiyala group and the multiple unions made in there. He didn't really have full control of the operations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## SHAMK9

Airblue's a340 lands at its new home.


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## Jango

SHAMK9 said:


>



That is a beautiful shot, only if it would have been in HQ.


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## ThunderCat

The 747-300s have some pretty good years in them. PIA should configure them in all economy class layout and use them for flights from Karachi to Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar and back. 

It could carry lots of people and build up plenty of profit as well as be affordable to middle class citizens.

That way the 300ERs can be used on international flights. But i think PIA's planning on keeping the 747s to be used during hajj seasons with all economy class configuration. So aside from twice a year, they'll be grounded and stored away to save maintainance costs.


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## ThunderCat

Pioneerfirst said:


> no doubt 777 are good but we do not need them,we already have 8 of them.These planes are large and with a lot more competition ahead(3 more Air lines are starting in 2012) it will be difficult for PIA to get these plans full with passenger.
> PIA should have chosen 787 dream liners.777 is present and 787 is future



Wrong. The 787 does not have the passenger capacity of the 777 and there's an upcoming version of the 777, the 777-X series. 

So 777 is still the future. 787 simply cannot replace the role of the 777 in any field. It can replace other types of aircraft but not 777 or even 767.


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## razgriz19

Pioneerfirst said:


> no doubt 777 are good but we do not need them,we already have 8 of them.These planes are large and with a lot more competition ahead(3 more Air lines are starting in 2012) it will be difficult for PIA to get these plans full with passenger.
> PIA should have chosen 787 dream liners.777 is present and 787 is future



787 have 777 both have very different roles!
787 is made to replace the 767, PIA will probably replace A310s with 787 as they're very similar to 777s. Pilots who are qualified to fly 777 can also fly 787 due to ridicules similarities.

those 5 new 777-300ER that are ordered this febuary will take the roles of 747-300.
plus it will also enable PIA to open new routes that they might be interested in.


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## razgriz19

SHAMK9 said:


> *Pakistans Airblue to double fleet within two years*
> Pakistani carrier Airblue has plans to double its fleet to 12 aircraft within the next two years.
> 
> The carrier wants to add four 70-seater turboprops to its fleet by early 2013, says Airblue's general manager for commercial, Raheel Ahmed.
> 
> It is considering the ATR 72 and the Bombardier Q400, though the airline has not decided whether the aircraft will be bought or leased.
> 
> Airblue is scheduled to take delivery of two Airbus A340-300s in early September. These aircraft are on a five-year lease from International Lease Finance Corporation.
> 
> Ahmed says that the A340s will have 342 seats in a single class configuration. The aircraft will be deployed on a direct Islamabad-Manchester service, replacing the existing Islamabad-Istanbul-Manchester route.
> 
> In August, the airline took delivery of one Airbus A320, which will be used to up frequencies on its domestic routes.
> 
> As part of its network expansion plans, Airblue may launch new destinations in Europe, Middle East and China. A timeline has not been specified for these plans. Ahmed adds that the carrier aims to be a major player on services to Europe.
> 
> According to the Flightglobal Ascend online database, Airblue operates four A319 and two A320 aircraft in its fleet.
> Pakistan



Q400 is the best choice!
the pilots love to fly them, and all the technicians love them too!
its an extremely maintenance friendly and extremely fuel efficient aircraft!
I visited bombardier and have seen the production facility myself


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## Safriz

PIA to ground Manchester, Amsterdam ops from 26th By: Amraiz Khan | September 29, 2012 | LAHORE - For, what aviation analysts term, implementation of an
agreement between the Pakistan International Airlines and the Turk
Hava Yollari, the PIA is going to cease its Manchester and Amsterdam
operation from October 26 without prior notice to passengers who had
made reservations, sources said on Friday.According to the THY-PIA
deal, the national airline is bound to operate direct flights only to London, Toronto, Oslo, Paris and Copenhagen. A former PIA marketing
executive said this move would result in loss of national flag carriers
credibility among its loyal clients and major profits since the airport
was a revenue-generating international station.It is also alleged that
the brokers of THY-PIA deal, who got staggering commission, had been
mounting pressure on the authorities concerned to implement it. The PIA was supposed to implement it for its summer schedule in 2011 but
could not do so because of strikes against the move.The PIA marketing
director is stated to be among the brokers of the deal. The director,
who was terminated over disciplinary grounds, has been reinstated
after his KP-based accomplice and PIA DMD serving in Investment
maneuvered to get him reinstated. These two men were close aides of former MD Aijaz Haroon, who was terminated after a major shutdown
strike called jointly by all PIA unions and associations.The PIA could
have temporarily suspended its loss-inflicting routes like Copenhagen,
Paris, Barcelona etc instead of rushing to cease its lucrative business
point after the pre-Haj schedule on October 26 since expats used to
celebrate Eid in their homeland. The THY has already been given traffic rights from Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad and with a 151-aircraft fleet,
it was seeking more passenger revenue-generating market, a senior
PIA officer said on condition of anonymity.On the other hand, a PIA
spokesperson said that a marketing study was being conducted and
after its completion, flight frequency would be increased on the profit-
giving stations.The official claimed that there was a rise in demand on South East Asia and Middle East sectors but the PIA flights were
insufficient thus profit could be earned by increasing the number of
flights on these sectors. However, he said the final decision would be
made after appointment of PIA chairman and MD. Manchester serves as
an airport of convenience for the majority of expatriates in the UK,
especially from Mirpur, Jhelum and Pothohar, KP, Hazara, AJK and


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## SHAMK9

SHAMK9 said:


> Airblue's a340 lands at its new home.


















Safriz said:


> PIA to ground Manchester, Amsterdam ops from 26th By: Amraiz Khan | September 29, 2012 | LAHORE - For, what aviation analysts term, implementation of an
> agreement between the Pakistan International Airlines and the Turk
> Hava Yollari, the PIA is going to cease its Manchester and Amsterdam
> operation from October 26 without prior notice to passengers who had
> made reservations, sources said on Friday.According to the THY-PIA
> deal, the national airline is bound to operate direct flights only to London, Toronto, Oslo, Paris and Copenhagen. A former PIA marketing
> executive said this move would result in loss of national flag carriers
> credibility among its loyal clients and major profits since the airport
> was a revenue-generating international station.It is also alleged that
> the brokers of THY-PIA deal, who got staggering commission, had been
> mounting pressure on the authorities concerned to implement it. The PIA was supposed to implement it for its summer schedule in 2011 but
> could not do so because of strikes against the move.The PIA marketing
> director is stated to be among the brokers of the deal. The director,
> who was terminated over disciplinary grounds, has been reinstated
> after his KP-based accomplice and PIA DMD serving in Investment
> maneuvered to get him reinstated. These two men were close aides of former MD Aijaz Haroon, who was terminated after a major shutdown
> strike called jointly by all PIA unions and associations.The PIA could
> have temporarily suspended its loss-inflicting routes like Copenhagen,
> Paris, Barcelona etc instead of rushing to cease its lucrative business
> point after the pre-Haj schedule on October 26 since expats used to
> celebrate Eid in their homeland. The THY has already been given traffic rights from Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad and with a 151-aircraft fleet,
> it was seeking more passenger revenue-generating market, a senior
> PIA officer said on condition of anonymity.On the other hand, a PIA
> spokesperson said that a marketing study was being conducted and
> after its completion, flight frequency would be increased on the profit-
> giving stations.The official claimed that there was a rise in demand on South East Asia and Middle East sectors but the PIA flights were
> insufficient thus profit could be earned by increasing the number of
> flights on these sectors. However, he said the final decision would be
> made after appointment of PIA chairman and MD. Manchester serves as
> an airport of convenience for the majority of expatriates in the UK,
> especially from Mirpur, Jhelum and Pothohar, KP, Hazara, AJK and


Not true, PIA would be shooting itself in the head if it was to shut down Manchester, it makes $hit loads of money from there.
*PIA Denies Closure of Frankfurt and Amsterdam Flights*
Lahore, September 29, 2012: Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) is operating all its European and UK stations including Frankfurt, Amsterdam and Manchester. PIA Spokesman confirmed here on Saturday.

He said that none of the present routes including Frankfurt and Amsterdam has closed down. While, Manchester is an important station of PIA and there is no possibility of closing down operations at this station. All PIA flights to USA on their journey towards New York have to make a stopover at Manchester so there is no question of closing down of Manchester. Besides, when PIA is selling tickets for these stations even on its web site (e-ticketing) how can it be presumed by anybody that these stations are being closed. PIA Spokesman added.

He said that such rumors about PIA operations when projected by electronic and print media seriously damage the sales of the National Flag Carrier and benefit foreign airlines as it creates doubt in the minds of traveling public at destinations abroad and in Pakistan.

PIA Spokesman said that few weeks back PIA organized a Marketing Conference, its recommendations and due to the directives of the airlines Board of Directors, the Corporate Services Department and the Marketing Managers are carrying out a thorough study of PIA routes. The study will identify loss-making routes and profit making routes with higher demand so that the frequency of flights to be adjusted on higher demand side in order to minimize PIA losses and increase its revenue for achieving operational profits with the existing fleet of 38 aircraft in quickest possible time.

PIA winter schedule is ready and will be effective from October 27, 2012 in which the airline will be in aggressive marketing mode to attract business in Europe, UK, USA and Canada especially during Christmas holidays. For the purpose, additional flights will be introduced and frequency of flights will also be increased to various destinations. Any policy decision would be after the induction of new management in PIA. Spokesman concluded.

Source: PIA Press Release (September 29, 2012)


----------



## razgriz19

if anybody wants to know more info about Q-400 then just ask. I have a booklet from Bombardier, they gave it to me when i went there.

Anyway can anyone pls tell me whats the average salary for a licensed AME in Pakistan?


----------



## A.Rafay

*PIA saved $9.5m by not leasing aircraft: MD*
PIA saved $9.5m by not leasing aircraft: MD | The Nation
LAHORE - Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) Managing Director Muhammad Junaid Yunus has said the airline saved $9.5 million by not leasing aircraft for Haj operation since both the 204 pre-Haj and 204 post-Haj flights were being operated by the PIA aircraft.
Informing about pre-Haj operation 2012, he said so far 100 flights, carrying 41,645 pilgrims, had been operated and flight punctuality regarding expected time of departure from Pakistan and expected time of arrival at Saudi Arabia was 94 per cent.
He was speaking as the chief guest of the certificate awarding ceremony to the successful participants of an air safety course organised by the Pakistan chapter of Society of Air Safety Investigators (SASI) at the PIA Training Centre on Saturday. He said it was heartening to note that the society was a group of Pakistan-based aviation safety professionals advocating for improving aviation safety in Pakistan.
The PIA is committed to aviation safety and it fully supports safety education by this group. The PIA has in the past also supported and sponsored a number of such seminars and workshops. The new avenue of safety training should be benefited by all stakeholders and airline operators of the Pakistan, the managing director said.
Speaking on the occasion SASI Pakistan Chapter President Wing Commander (r) Syed Naseem Ahmed said the society after Bhoja crash focused on two aspects  assisting the crash victims and education of aviation community on air safety. Talking to the media, he said by the next week, the PIA would start flights from Islamabad to Saidu Sharif, Swat, while it would increase flight frequency on profit-making routes and new destinations would be added to the PIAs international network after November.


----------



## SHAMK9

PIA Islamabad-Saidu Sharif flights will start on November 5.
PIA Quetta-Kandahar Flights Expected to Start on December 15.


----------



## Jango

So whats the latest on the PIA acquisition of 777's???

There were orders with Boeing being discussed, then some wet/dry leases as well. What came of those two. And what is the final order/acquisition plan?

BTW, Air India has also freed up 5 777's, I have seen on the net some reports on this.


----------



## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> So whats the latest on the PIA acquisition of 777's???
> 
> There were orders with Boeing being discussed, then some wet/dry leases as well. What came of those two. And what is the final order/acquisition plan?
> 
> BTW, Air India has also freed up 5 777's, I have seen on the net some reports on this.


Still no updates, Air India's 7LR's are three classed, refitting them will cost lots of money, i don't think that would be a smart move.


----------



## SHAMK9

Second a330-300 of Shaheen will arrive in Karachi today


----------



## Jango

Laxity forcing PIA to ground half of its A310 planes | The Nation

*Laxity forcing PIA to ground half of its A310 planes*

LAHORE &#8211; Because of poor planning of former PIA managing director, the loss-stricken national flag carrier will have to ground half of its fleet of A310 aircraft during the next year, adding to the miseries of passengers, well-placed sources revealed to The Nation on Thursday.
Sources said that the PIA was operating 12 A310 aircraft, of which two were currently grounded and their four engines were lying unserviceable for the past ten months. Technical sources claimed that six more engines of three aircraft were due to be overhauled in the next six months. The overhauling of engines would cost about Rs600 million per engine and if PIA wanted to keep its total fleet of A310 operational, it would have to get its ten engines service which would cost Rs6 billion. Sources disclosed that what to say of making engines serviceable, PIA has no cash to purchase spare parts of its other engines which costs far less amount.
Recently, Capt. Junaid Younis rejected such summary on the ground of non-availability of funds. A senior officer of PIA said that twelve Airbus A310 Aircraft constitute major volume of PIA fleet of 39. There are two different models being operated by national flag carrier. Amongst twelve aircrafts, six are powered by General Electric CF6-80C2 engines and the other six by Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engines. The airline has in-house overhaul facility for CF6-80C2 engines while PW4000 were sent to an Eagle Services Asia, Singapore under an agreement called Fleet Management Programme (FMP). PIA was operating PW4000 powered A310 aircraft under lease agreement with Airbus Leasing since 2003.
PIA management, headed by the then PIA MD Capt Nadeem Yousafzai, decided to acquire these six aircraft earlier in 2011 instead of lease maturity year 2015. The surprising reconciliation revealed that PIA management failed to claim around $35 million owed by Airbus Leasing and approved the clause in the reconciliation agreement to adjust this amount in some future deals of Airbus aircraft. It is worth mentioning here that this claimable amount was paid by PIA as maintenance reserves over the period of eight years from 2003 to 2011 with a purpose to be used for maintenance of these aircraft. Now millions of dollars being agreed to be paid for the potential purchase of aircraft is pending with Airbus Leasing. On the other side, after acquiring these aircraft the Fleet Management Programme (FMP) agreement has also come to a hasty end without keeping in mind the drastic repercussions for future operations of aircraft. Currently, one of these aircraft bearing registration AP-BGN is grounded almost for the last ten months due to non-availability of engines. PIA is now facing the music of acquiring aircraft in haste and facing acute shortage of funds to get these units back as serviceable. The temporary improvement was evident during a short stay of Rao Qamar Suleman who somehow managed to take bold decisions and reappropriation of payment schedule to different vendors involved in maintenance of PIA engines. Sensible utilisation of funds also improved the provisioning of engineering spares a bit. Unfortunately this improvement proved very short and there is a breakdown again in the supply of engineering spares, sources close to development said. PIA is running its operation without having regular Chairman, Managing Director, Chief Financial Officer, Director HR and Chief Internal Auditor, a senior officer of airlines said. When contacted PIA MD Capt Junaid Younis, his spokesman Kamran said that acquiring planes before lease maturity time was option in lease agreement. He said that two grounded A310 were on routine checking and not grounded for last ten months.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And we have another gem from PIA. Even though the A310's are a bit old, but they still do the short routes to the GCC countries and give a little back the PIA. But i for one would be happy to see these planes go.

Can somebody explain to me the reason why PIA went for 2 different engines on their A310 fleet?

Meanwhile in other news, PIA has floated a tender for getting another component repair company.


----------



## A.Rafay

Shaheen's second a330-300 will arrive today in Karachi


----------



## Jango

It has already arrived. Check out the facebook page. There are photos of it there.


----------



## SHAMK9

*Rs 9.36 billion PIA loan guarantee approved by ECC*
The Economic Co-ordination Committee (ECC) of the Cabinet has approved issuance of guarantee for fresh loan of Rs 9.36 billion for Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) and reduced 10 to 17.5 percent tariff for different categories of components/kits used by motorcycle industry. 

The meeting of ECC presided over by Finance Minister Dr Abdul Hafeez Sheikh on Tuesday decided that review would be done after one year. The rate of duty has been reduced for Completely Built Unit (CBU) and components from existing 20 percent to 10 percent and CBU and components for assembly/manufacture of vehicle in any form of kit from 65 percent to 50 percent. 

The ECC on a summary moved by the Ministry of Commerce approved consensus proposal to reduce tariff on Completely-Knocked-Down (CKD) kit, which is not manufactured locally, from existing 15 percent to 5 percent and on CKD kit which are manufactured locally, from existing 47.5 percent to 30 percent. 

The ECC also approved issuance of guarantee for fresh loan of Rs 9.36 billion for PIA as well as extension of government guarantee for two years on Sukuk Certificates of Rs 6.8 billion. The meeting also directed PIA to resubmit the business plan in the next meeting of the ECC. 

An official said the Ministry of Defence moved a summary to the ECC requesting that PIA is facing liquidity crunch for the last several years because of high oil prices, depreciation of Pakistan rupee against the dollar and aging fleet and is unable to pay the debt. The ministry further stated that the PIA has to raise fresh loan to repay the debt for which the ECC was requested to allow fresh borrowing to the PIA. The government guarantee for PIA Rs 6.8 billion Sukuk certificates has expired and repayment of loan in six equal instalments was due from February 2012. The flag carrier was unable to repay the debt due to financial crunch and wanted extension in government guarantee for two years. 

The ECC also approved equity of Rs 7.952 billion for upgradation of capacity of Wah Brass Mills (Pvt) Project from current 7000MT to 24000MT with equity ratio of 80:20. The Wah Industries would inject 20 percent equity into the project of Rs 1.59 billion or $16.7 million whereas for the remaining amount a letter of comfort or sovereign guarantee would be issued by the government. 

The loan of $16 million has been approved at the rate of annual average cost of borrowing of the government for fiscal year 2012-13 repayable over the period of 7 years and issuance of letter of comfort/sovereign guarantee against loan facility to POF Wah amounting to Pak rupees equivalent to $59.4 million to be raised from any of scheduled commercial bank. 

The ECC also discussed summary on "Policy Guidelines for Energy Efficiency Audit of Captive Power Plants and Natural Gas Boilers, proposing reduction in efficiency benchmark for gas engines/gas turbines, combined cycle and boilers. As the comments from Ministry of Water and Power and Ministry of Textile Industry were not presented in the summary, it was decided to reconsider the summary in next ECC meeting after receiving the formal comments from both the Ministries. 

On the summary of "LPG Production and Distribution Policy 2012" Minister for Law and Justice remarked that comments by his ministry are not present in the summary. After discussing different dimensions especially arguments given by Minister for Law and Justice, ECC decided to reconsider the summary in the next meeting after having formal comments by the Law and Justice Division. 

The ECC also discussed summary on import policy of used cars submitted by Ministry of Industries. Secretary Industries argued that huge import of used cars is severely damaging the domestic car industry and proposed to reduce the age of used cars from five to three years. After due deliberations, ECC constituted a committee comprising representatives from Ministry of Industries, Commerce, FBR and Production to work out further and give a detailed presentation in the next ECC meeting. 

The ECC discussed in detail the allocation of gas to fertiliser plants from dedicated sources and was informed that 202 mmcfd gas would be made available to fertiliser sector from newly discovered fields and from the fields having additional gas. 

The ECC was also informed that 1000 km long pipeline would be required to be established to utilise this additional gas from the fields. After considering the different aspects of the proposal, ECC gave in principle approval for establishment of 1000km long pipeline. ECC also set up a committee comprising Ministers for Information and Broadcasting, Petroleum and Natural Resources, Law and Justice, Deputy Chairman Planning Commission and Secretary Water and Power to work on determination of legal modalities, mechanism for pricing, review of agreement and estimation of cost and time. The said committee will present its report in the next ECC meeting.


----------



## fatman17

Friday, November 02, 2012 

*PIA plans to acquire 7 aircraft on lease*


KARACHI: Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has planned to acquire aircraft on dry lease of five narrow body and two wide body aircraft. In this regard, the tender has been floated for &#8216;Two Stage Two Envelope&#8217; tendering process has been adopted. Leading leasing companies in the aviation industry has participated in the tender. First stage bids were opened on October 31, 2012 in PIA head office Karachi. Bid opening meeting was also attended by representatives of union/associations of PIA, Transparency International Pakistan and Ministry of Defence as observer. staff report


ground your own aircraft and lease somebody's aircraft - reeks of corruption!


----------



## Jango

What is going on with PIA???

Sometimes they are buying some 777's, sometimes dry leasing, sometimes wet leasing, sometimes doing nothing.


This airline needs a *major * overhaul.


----------



## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> What is going on with PIA???
> 
> *Sometimes they are buying some 777's, sometimes dry leasing, sometimes wet leasing, sometimes doing nothing.*
> 
> 
> This airline needs a *major * overhaul.


PIA ordered 5 77W with 5 options in the beginning of the year, they will arrive in 2015 but PIA needs them right now so they are looking to lease 777's untill 2015 and they will be returned when the 5 77W's are delivered.


----------



## SHAMK9

Shaheen's third and last a330-300


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## razgriz19

a330 is great aircraft, one of my professor (AME) worked on this aircraft he said its one of the best airplane out there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Jango

SHAMK9 said:


> PIA ordered 5 77W with 5 options in the beginning of the year, they will arrive in 2015 but PIA needs them right now so they are looking to lease 777's untill 2015 and they will be returned when the 5 77W's are delivered.



There was a lease for 2 Wide body and 6 narrow body A/C. What happened to that? Scrapped?


----------



## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> There was a lease for 2 Wide body and 6 narrow body A/C. What happened to that? Scrapped?


No idea because PIA keeps updating their tenders every other week, rumors are that PIA is going for the a330-200s as well.


----------



## Jango

SHAMK9 said:


> No idea because PIA keeps updating their tenders every other week, rumors are that PIA is going for the a330-200s as well.



Lease or buy?

If it is for lease, then it depends on whether it is a dry lease or wet lease. If it is a wet lease, then it makes a little bit of sense, to replace the old A310's on some European routes, and some other places. If it is dry lease, a stupid move. You need to get a completely new maintenance infrastructure in place and other associated equipment.

As for a buy, this does not make much sense to me unless they want to get it as a replacement for A310. We already have 777 and 747 in long haul, and a new jumbos are also rumored to be coming (second hand ofcourse). And PIA is also looking at 737NG series as a replacement on short routes.

One thing is for sure, PIA sure is in a mess regarding procurement, and not giving any confidence to the sellers.


----------



## razgriz19

nuclearpak said:


> Laxity forcing PIA to ground half of its A310 planes | The Nation
> 
> *Laxity forcing PIA to ground half of its A310 planes*
> 
> LAHORE &#8211; Because of poor planning of former PIA managing director, the loss-stricken national flag carrier will have to ground half of its fleet of A310 aircraft during the next year, adding to the miseries of passengers, well-placed sources revealed to The Nation on Thursday.
> Sources said that the PIA was operating 12 A310 aircraft, of which two were currently grounded and their four engines were lying unserviceable for the past ten months. Technical sources claimed that six more engines of three aircraft were due to be overhauled in the next six months. The overhauling of engines would cost about Rs600 million per engine and if PIA wanted to keep its total fleet of A310 operational, it would have to get its ten engines service which would cost Rs6 billion. Sources disclosed that what to say of making engines serviceable, PIA has no cash to purchase spare parts of its other engines which costs far less amount.
> Recently, Capt. Junaid Younis rejected such summary on the ground of non-availability of funds. A senior officer of PIA said that twelve Airbus A310 Aircraft constitute major volume of PIA fleet of 39. There are two different models being operated by national flag carrier. Amongst twelve aircrafts, six are powered by General Electric CF6-80C2 engines and the other six by Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engines. The airline has in-house overhaul facility for CF6-80C2 engines while PW4000 were sent to an Eagle Services Asia, Singapore under an agreement called Fleet Management Programme (FMP). PIA was operating PW4000 powered A310 aircraft under lease agreement with Airbus Leasing since 2003.
> PIA management, headed by the then PIA MD Capt Nadeem Yousafzai, decided to acquire these six aircraft earlier in 2011 instead of lease maturity year 2015. The surprising reconciliation revealed that PIA management failed to claim around $35 million owed by Airbus Leasing and approved the clause in the reconciliation agreement to adjust this amount in some future deals of Airbus aircraft. It is worth mentioning here that this claimable amount was paid by PIA as maintenance reserves over the period of eight years from 2003 to 2011 with a purpose to be used for maintenance of these aircraft. Now millions of dollars being agreed to be paid for the potential purchase of aircraft is pending with Airbus Leasing. On the other side, after acquiring these aircraft the Fleet Management Programme (FMP) agreement has also come to a hasty end without keeping in mind the drastic repercussions for future operations of aircraft. Currently, one of these aircraft bearing registration AP-BGN is grounded almost for the last ten months due to non-availability of engines. PIA is now facing the music of acquiring aircraft in haste and facing acute shortage of funds to get these units back as serviceable. The temporary improvement was evident during a short stay of Rao Qamar Suleman who somehow managed to take bold decisions and reappropriation of payment schedule to different vendors involved in maintenance of PIA engines. Sensible utilisation of funds also improved the provisioning of engineering spares a bit. Unfortunately this improvement proved very short and there is a breakdown again in the supply of engineering spares, sources close to development said. PIA is running its operation without having regular Chairman, Managing Director, Chief Financial Officer, Director HR and Chief Internal Auditor, a senior officer of airlines said. When contacted PIA MD Capt Junaid Younis, his spokesman Kamran said that acquiring planes before lease maturity time was option in lease agreement. He said that two grounded A310 were on routine checking and not grounded for last ten months.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> And we have another gem from PIA. Even though the A310's are a bit old, but they still do the short routes to the GCC countries and give a little back the PIA. But i for one would be happy to see these planes go.
> 
> Can somebody explain to me the reason why PIA went for 2 different engines on their A310 fleet?
> 
> Meanwhile in other news, PIA has floated a tender for getting another component repair company.



well the only possible reason for having two different types of engines is that, If the ADs (Airworthiness Directives) are released to the owners/operators of that engine from the manufacture, then the operators would have to ground the fleet in order to fix that problem asap. however if you have an airline that has a single type of aircraft that uses same type of engines then your simply screwed.
by having two different types of engines, you eliminate the possibility of grounding the entire fleet.


----------



## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> Lease or buy?
> 
> If it is for lease, then it depends on whether it is a dry lease or wet lease. If it is a wet lease, then it makes a little bit of sense, to replace the old A310's on some European routes, and some other places. If it is dry lease, a stupid move. You need to get a completely new maintenance infrastructure in place and other associated equipment.
> 
> As for a buy, this does not make much sense to me unless they want to get it as a replacement for A310. We already have 777 and 747 in long haul, and a new jumbos are also rumored to be coming (second hand ofcourse). And PIA is also looking at 737NG series as a replacement on short routes.
> 
> One thing is for sure, PIA sure is in a mess regarding procurement, and not giving any confidence to the sellers.


Not sure because it's only a rumor, PIA needs to get rid of a310s and 737s, 'technical' difficulties are becoming normal for PIA.


----------



## Jango

*Airblue crash: Foreign experts say CAA withheld vital information*

PESHAWAR: 
Investigation experts of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) completed their reinvestigation of the Airblue crash and submitted a report to the Ministry of Defence and the Peshawar High Court (PHC) on Thursday.
Airblue flight 202 crashed in the Margalla Hills on July 28, 2010 killing 146 passengers and six crew members.
During the last case hearing on October 17, the PHC asked the CAA&#8217;s senior legal adviser, Obaidur Rehman Abbasi, to share the reinvestigation report with the court when it&#8217;s completed.
The report reveals that the incident occurred after the pilot lost control of the aircraft.
It further says that the investigation report made by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), which is available on its website, is incomplete and lacks vital information.
The CAA&#8217;s initial investigation, referred to as the draft report, had more details. But after it was sent for a review on March 7, 2011, the CAA director general (DG) ordered that some information be deleted from the final report, which was made public, sources familiar with the ICAO investigation told The Express Tribune. Under CAA rule 281, the DG has the power to share information at his/her discretion.
The reinvestigation was carried out by ICAO Technical Officer Dr Andre Dekok and Standards and Procedure Officer Thormodur Thormodsson. They mentioned in their report that the draft version&#8212;not made public&#8212;was only read to them. They were not provided a copy of the draft report as it would violate CAA rules.
According to the ICAO report, the pilot was suffering from spatial disorientation. This condition occurs when a pilot is unable to correctly interpret the aircraft&#8217;s attitude (movement), altitude (height) or airspeed, in relation to the point of reference.
&#8220;The aircraft went out of the pilot&#8217;s control after it abruptly showed an altitude of 3,110ft a few seconds ahead of the incident. The final report contained 15 safety recommendations, which were not in accordance with the ICAO rules,&#8221; sources said, quoting the new report.
The sources added that according to ICAO experts, the final report wrongly mentioned that the family members of the crash victims were treated according to the ICAO guidelines.
The CAA&#8217;s report does not mention the weather conditions either, a crucial factor leading up to the crash. While the communication between the flight crew and the air traffic controllers is mentioned, no section in the final report was dedicated to communication, the experts said.
&#8220;ICAO experts also expressed concerns over the possibility of a conflict of interest since CAA investigation officials had made the report themselves,&#8221; sources said.
The Safety Investigation Board (SIB), a body which falls under the CAA, is responsible for investigating air accidents in Pakistan. Foreign experts were quoted as saying that the SIB is not an independent and impartial organisation and can not investigate in a transparent manner.
Sources requesting anonymity said that the ICAO termed the final report on CAA&#8217;s website as incomprehensive with no logical flow to explain the plane crash. It lacks factual information to support the claims, sources said. ICAO experts also said that they were denied access to crucial information regarding the flight crew.
The new report mentions that CAA&#8217;s investigation does not mention information on the status and maintenance of navigation aids, including runway lights at the time the incident occurred. The foreign experts were told that the draft report included such information.
The international investigators have recommended that the SIB should be turned into an independent entity to avoid misinformation and bureaucratic influences.
Salient points of the ICAO report
&#8226; The plane crashed after the pilot lost control
&#8226; The pilot was unable to correctly interpret the plane&#8217;s movement
&#8226; The CAA&#8217;s final report lacks vital information
&#8226; Foreign experts were denied flight crew information
&#8226; Information on maintenance of navigation aids is missing in the CAA&#8217;s report
&#8226; 15 safety recommendations were not in accordance with the ICAO&#8217;s guidelines

Airblue crash: Foreign experts say CAA withheld vital information &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## Donatello

SHAMK9 said:


> No idea because PIA keeps updating their tenders every other week, rumors are that PIA is going for the a330-200s as well.




That would be the worst decision ever. When the entire fleets are moving away from A330 and A340s, PIA want's gas guzzlers? Nice.


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## SHAMK9

Donatello said:


> That would be the worst decision ever. When the entire fleets are moving away from A330 and A340s, PIA want's gas guzzlers? Nice.


No one is moving away from a330's, every airline is replacing old ones by buying the new ones, check out the order list for a330's.


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## Jango

Un confirmed reports that Shaheen going for ATR-72.


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## Jango

Shows a position that we and PIA had in the region. Note the aircraft AP-BCD at 00:20. AP means the aircraft is registered in Pakistan.

PIA leased aircraft to Emirates for setting itself up.

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## razgriz19

If anyone has any doubts about whether PIA is getting 777 or not, they should check this link out. PIA is on the list with 5 B777 on order.

The Boeing Company


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## Jango

razgriz19 said:


> If anyone has any doubts about whether PIA is getting 777 or not, they should check this link out. PIA is on the list with 5 B777 on order.
> 
> The Boeing Company



This is about the firm order for buying the planes. 

The confusion is about the leases that PIA is trying for.


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## Jango

The PIA ATR-42 that was involved in the Lahore airport runway skid accident has been apparently written off. Plane markings have been removed and plane is just sitting there since the incident. 

_Courtesy Historyofpia.com_

Repair might not have been found to be economically feasible.

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## Edevelop

*PIA to operate weekly flight to Madina*







LAHORE &#8211; The Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) is planning to operate a direct weekly flight from Lahore to Madina from the next Umrah season, said a spokesman on Saturday.

He said that a direct flight from Madinah to Peshawar is also planned subject to availability of aircraft. It is worth mentioning here that currently PIA is operating three flights in a week from Pakistan to Madina including Karachi &#8211; Madina, Multan-Karachi-Madina-and Islamabad- Madina.

Spokesman said that revenue on this sector enhanced to 20 million Riyals in 2011. He said that from Madina some seven airlines operate and besides PIA these include Saudi, Qatar, Emirates, Gulf Air and Turkish Airline etc.

Last year, 11,992 passengers traveled to Pakistan by PIA from Madina and this year this number has increased to 13,068.

Around 43,000 Hajjis from Madina would travel via bus to Jeddah from where they will take their flights to Pakistan. The Hajjis would be transported by Pakistan Hajj Mission in Saudi Arabia and we expect on time departures of Hujjaj by buses from Madina to Jeddah Hajj Terminal.

The PIA has, so far carried over 33,000 Hajjis to Pakistan on board 79 Hajj flights while over 5,700 Hajjis have travelled through the PIA regular scheduled flights to Pakistan. The airline&#8217;s Post Hajj Operation is continuing with on time departures from Jeddah to Pakistan.

PIA to operate weekly flight to Madina | The Nation


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## Edevelop

I think airlines in Pakistan should go for Embraer aircrafts. They are cheaper and are equally efficient as compared to Airbus and Boeing. Air Canada and JetBlue are examples of such that use them.


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## Jango

cb4 said:


> I think airlines in Pakistan should go for Embraer aircrafts. They are cheaper and are equally efficient as compared to Airbus and Boeing. Air Canada and JetBlue are examples of such that use them.



Rumor is that Shaheen is going for ATR's for the shorter routes.

And with these airlines already procuring A340's, A330's, and then PIA with the leasing of 737NG, they would not want to be procuring another aircraft system (different company) right now. They would be wanting to keep things fluid, and not have a change from Airbus,Boeing to Embraer.


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## Edevelop

nuclearpak said:


> Rumor is that Shaheen is going for ATR's for the shorter routes.
> 
> And with these airlines already procuring A340's, A330's, and then PIA with the leasing of 737NG, they would not want to be procuring another aircraft system (different company) right now. They would be wanting to keep things fluid, and not have a change from Airbus,Boeing to Embraer.



But if Shaheen is looking to buy ATR, then isn't that change ? I don't think they have ever operated those types of aircrafts or have had any links with the company...


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## Jango

cb4 said:


> But if Shaheen is looking to buy ATR, then isn't that change ? I don't think they have ever operated those types of aircrafts or used anything from the company...



Yes, that is why Embraer would be a no go. Shaheen is going for the ATR for short haul national routes. 

And ATR and Airbus do share alot between them in terms of tech and manufacturing. ATR has a connection with EADS. ATR begans with a joint venture of Aerospatiale and Aeritalia, and after a while Aerospatiale merged into EADS.


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## imiakhtar

fatman17 said:


> Friday, November 02, 2012
> 
> *PIA plans to acquire 7 aircraft on lease*
> 
> ground your own aircraft and lease somebody's aircraft - reeks of corruption!



There's nothing corrupt about it. The tendering process and documents have been very clear and available for all to examine. They were opened at the end of October in the presence of TIP.

Further, if you've got an issue with the tendering process, perhaps you should lay the blame on your uniform heroes at the MoD who initiated the tender under the retd Air Marshall's direction.



nuclearpak said:


> There was a lease for 2 Wide body and 6 narrow body A/C. What happened to that? Scrapped?



As above, the tenders were opened at the end of October in Karachi. They will be evaluated and a decision made.



nuclearpak said:


> Lease or buy?
> 
> If it is for lease, then it depends on whether it is a dry lease or wet lease. If it is a wet lease, then it makes a little bit of sense, to replace the old A310's on some European routes, and some other places. If it is dry lease, a stupid move. You need to get a completely new maintenance infrastructure in place and other associated equipment.
> 
> As for a buy, this does not make much sense to me unless they want to get it as a replacement for A310. We already have 777 and 747 in long haul, and a new jumbos are also rumored to be coming (second hand ofcourse). And PIA is also looking at 737NG series as a replacement on short routes.
> 
> One thing is for sure, PIA sure is in a mess regarding procurement, and not giving any confidence to the sellers.



The tender is for lease. However, there could be flexibility built into the contract giving PIA the option to purchase the aircraft. One of PIA's B777s is leased from ILFC ( I believe it is AP-BHX) with an option for purchase. Recently, PIA cancelled it's lease of A310 aircraft and bought the aircraft from Airbus.

The B747s in PIAs fleet are in dire repair and are not used on long haul flights. They're used on domestic and middle-eastern sectors. 

The ex-Saudi 747s that have been rumoured are just as old and tired. They wouldn't be much help.

You are correct in saying the fleet acquisition has been a mess of late. This is due to a number of factors such as poor financial state, a very powerful pilot and engineering union, multiple management changes, poor economy outlook and perhaps most importantly a poor track record in maintaining it's aircraft. You only need to look at the feeble response PIA received from it's initial aircraft tender: ex-jet airways 737s manufactured circa 2000-2001 and egyptair 777-200s with PW engines from 1998-2000. I don't blame PIA from scrapping that tender and organizing a new bid. 

Furthermore the aircraft if leased will be dry-leased. PIA unions would not allow the aircraft to be wet leased as it would outsource their work to contractors.


razgriz19 said:


> well the only possible reason for having two different types of engines is that, If the ADs (Airworthiness Directives) are released to the owners/operators of that engine from the manufacture, then the operators would have to ground the fleet in order to fix that problem asap. however if you have an airline that has a single type of aircraft that uses same type of engines then your simply screwed.
> by having two different types of engines, you eliminate the possibility of grounding the entire fleet.



Bollocks. You're wrong on all accounts. I can't recall a single aircraft/engine AD in recent years which has prompted an aircraft grounding.

There is no advantage in a small airline like PIA maintaining multiple engine fleets. That strategy pursued on the A310 and B747 has been a pain in the arse for PIA engineering and is extremely expensive. For example, it costs PIA over $2million to have a Rolls-ROyce RB211 transported out and overhauled. It would be even more expensive to try and do it in house. Some of the A310s are currently grounded due to a shortage of PW and GE engine parts (due to birdstrikes mainly!)

Realistically, PIA needs to think about closing down the engineering department and contract out engine and airframe maintenance. It would be much cheaper but would the all powerful engineering union and the PPP allow it? after all it would result in job losses.



SHAMK9 said:


> Not sure because it's only a rumor, PIA needs to get rid of a310s and 737s, 'technical' difficulties are becoming normal for PIA.





Donatello said:


> That would be the worst decision ever. When the entire fleets are moving away from A330 and A340s, PIA want's gas guzzlers? Nice.



What a silly statement. The A330 has outsold the Boeing 777 and Boeing 787 this year. In fact, the A330 would have been a much better fit for PIA over the 777. The only route which require the payload range of the 777 is Pakistan-canada and the pak-usa routes are extremely seasonal. Are two routes enough justification for an aircraft?



SHAMK9 said:


> No one is moving away from a330's, every airline is replacing old ones by buying the new ones, check out the order list for a330's.



Very much so.



nuclearpak said:


> Un confirmed reports that Shaheen going for ATR-72.



It's unfortunate that shaheen is having to increase it's domestic service to regional airports. It's one of the reasons why PIA has so many staff and is making very little money due to the regional routes.



nuclearpak said:


> The PIA ATR-42 that was involved in the Lahore airport runway skid accident has been apparently written off. Plane markings have been removed and plane is just sitting there since the incident.
> 
> _Courtesy Historyofpia.com_
> 
> Repair might not have been found to be economically feasible.



And yet we're constantly told that Pakistan and PIA have the best pilots in the world. Let us hope the ATR fleet doesn't go the way of the Fokker F-50 fleet, many of which had fatal crashes or were written off.



cb4 said:


> I think airlines in Pakistan should go for Embraer aircrafts. They are cheaper and are equally efficient as compared to Airbus and Boeing. Air Canada and JetBlue are examples of such that use them.



Embraers may be cheaper however they can not be compared on a like for like basis with the Boeing or Airbus offerings as the latter offer much higher seat counts.



nuclearpak said:


> Yes, that is why Embraer would be a no go. Shaheen is going for the ATR for short haul national routes.
> 
> And ATR and Airbus do share alot between them in terms of tech and manufacturing. ATR has a connection with EADS. ATR begans with a joint venture of Aerospatiale and Aeritalia, and after a while Aerospatiale merged into EADS.



There is no pilot, training, parts or fleet commonality between airbus and ATR aircraft.


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## Edevelop

nuclearpak said:


> Shows a position that we and PIA had in the region. Note the aircraft AP-BCD at 00:20. AP means the aircraft is registered in Pakistan.
> 
> PIA leased aircraft to Emirates for setting itself up.



Man they should owe us back !


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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> There is no pilot, training, parts or fleet commonality between airbus and ATR aircraft.



I didn't talk about pilot training or anything of the sort. A few parts are common because they are sourced from the same place.


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## Hyperion

cb4 said:


> Man they should owe us back !


Yara, no one remembers favors, specially the desert dwellers 

No matter what anyone tells you, don't count us out yet! We shall rise once again, and this time we aren't going to make same emotional mistakes for the betterment of the so called "ummah".

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## imiakhtar

cb4 said:


> Man they should owe us back !





Hyperion said:


> Yara, no one remembers favors, specially the desert dwellers
> 
> No matter what anyone tells you, don't count us out yet! We shall rise once again, and this time we aren't going to make same emotional mistakes for the betterment of the so called "ummah".



Emirates doesn't owe PIA anything. They fulfilled their contractual obligations at the time of the leases.

Unlike PIA however, their Head had the vision, took calculated risks and put his money where his mouth is. When he saw that he was getting beyond his ability, he brought in foreign management. Along with Cathay Pacific, Emirates probably have the best management team in the airline industry.



nuclearpak said:


> I didn't talk about pilot training or anything of the sort. A few parts are common because they are sourced from the same place.



There are NO common parts between ATR and Airbus aircraft whatsoever.

The avionics, hydraulics, electrical etc have no commonality. 

Additionally, PIA rarely sources spares direct from the OEMs. They tend to rely on third party venders, most of whom cover a wide range of aircraft families.


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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> Emirates doesn't owe PIA anything. They fulfilled their contractual obligations at the time of the leases.
> 
> Unlike PIA however, their Head had the vision, took calculated risks and put his money where his mouth is. When he saw that he was getting beyond his ability, he brought in foreign management. Along with Cathay Pacific, Emirates probably have the best management team in the airline industry.



Agreed.

Emirates has one of the best employee satisfaction in the world. It takes great care of them, and Tim Clark (along with others) really has made Emirates a great airline.

Emirates surely has a financial model that is an example.




> There are NO common parts between ATR and Airbus aircraft whatsoever.
> 
> The avionics, hydraulics, electrical etc have no commonality.



Perhaps. I'll check it. I am pretty sure I saw on the net somewhere that ATR and Airbus have a few common parts made by the same manufacturer.



> Additionally, PIA rarely sources spares direct from the OEMs. They tend to rely on third party venders, most of whom cover a wide range of aircraft families.



Agreed. These third party vendors are sometimes the cause of corruption!


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## imiakhtar

nuclearpak said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I am pretty sure I saw on the net somewhere that ATR and Airbus have a few common parts made by the same manufacturer.
> !



You are right in saying the parts are often made by the same manufacturers, however that does not confer commonality.

For example, messier-dowty produce landing gears for boeing, airbus and ATR aircraft


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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> You are right in saying the parts are often made by the same manufacturers, however that does not confer commonality.
> 
> For example, messier-dowty produce landing gears for boeing, airbus and ATR aircraft



EADS Sogerma creates wings for ATR. And also some body sections for some Airbus aircraft. Yes, you are right that the parts are not exactly common, but they are made by the same manufacturer.

I stand corrected.

BTW, do you have any links of the PIA lease tenders? I can't find them, tenders that are open as of now.


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## imiakhtar

nuclearpak said:


> BTW, do you have any links of the PIA lease tenders? I can't find them, tenders that are open as of now.



You can view open PIA tenders here:

PIA for Businesses

The tender for the aircraft leases closed at the end of October and was removed thereafter.

I do have a copy of the tender document should anyone wish to read it. (message me and I shall email you the copy)

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## Jango

I can't PM you, so any other method?

I just want to know the final situation in these tenders?

Which tenders are currently open and PIA is pursuing.


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## imiakhtar

nuclearpak said:


> I can't PM you, so any other method?
> 
> I just want to know the final situation in these tenders?
> 
> Which tenders are currently open and PIA is pursuing.



I managed to find the tenders documents online.

2 Widebody aircraft tender here:
http://www.piac.com.pk/cms/tenders/1604_DryLease-twoWideBody.pdf

5 narrowbody aircraft tender here:
http://www.piac.com.pk/cms/tenders/1605_DryLease-fiveWideBody.pdf

Keep in mind that both tenders are separate. 

The important bit to note is that the tenders are weighted 30% technical and 70% financial. It wouldn't take much for a lessor to offer a lower bid and nullify the fleet commonality aspect.

Of course, this being Pakistan, some mouths are already yapping and there are rumours that airbus aircraft have been selected.

We should know in the new few weeks.

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## SHAMK9

I don't think anyone will lease their planes to PIA.


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## Edevelop

I don't understand why they are buying more Boeing 777s. We already have 9 of them and really if you look at PIA's destinations, there are very few in the long range. What we need to do is replace the old Boeing 737 and Airbus A-310 ASAP with a newer short range aircraft. Every other day you hear domestic incidents happening. In past few weeks, Lahore, Islamabad and Skardu faced problems...

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## SHAMK9

cb4 said:


> *I don't understand why they are buying more Boeing 777s.* We already have 9 of them and really if you look at PIA's destinations, there are very few in the long range. What we need to do is replace the old Boeing 737 and Airbus A-310 ASAP with a newer short range aircraft. Every other day you hear domestic incidents happening. In past few weeks, Lahore, Islamabad and Skardu faced problems...


To replace 747-300's which are backbone for hajj and regional services, i agree on the a310 part though.

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## Edevelop

SHAMK9 said:


> To replace 747-300's which are backbone for hajj and regional services, i agree on the a310 part though.



Agar bara aircraft layna tha to phir Boeing 787 lay taaay


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## SHAMK9

cb4 said:


> Agar bara aircraft layna tha to phir Boeing 787 lay taaay


b787 is small, can't replace 747, however it can replace a310 for sure, i hope they go for 787 in near future.


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## Edevelop

SHAMK9 said:


> b787 is small, can't replace 747, however it can replace a310 for sure, i hope they go for 787 in near future.



787 is 20% more fuel efficient....

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## imiakhtar

cb4 said:


> Agar bara aircraft layna tha to phir Boeing 787 lay taaay



The 787 isn't very big. Furthermore, PIA need aircraft NOW. The earliest PIA could get a 787 would be around 2016.



cb4 said:


> 787 is 20% more fuel efficient....



Compared to what and on what basis?


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## Edevelop

imiakhtar said:


> The 787 isn't very big. Furthermore, PIA need aircraft NOW. The earliest PIA could get a 787 would be around 2016.
> 
> Compared to what and on what basis?



Data from ANA reported that the 787 surpasses the 20% fuel burn reduction promised by Boeing as compared to the 767. On the Tokyo-Frankfurt route the fuel savings was 21%.[161] As part of this report the passenger experience was also rated. Nine in ten passengers said it surpassed their expectations and a quarter said they would go out of their way to fly the 787 again. Air quality and cabin pressure met or exceeded expectations for nine in ten passengers, and 92% of passengers reported that the cabin ambience was as good or better than they expected. Higher humidity levels in the cabin met or exceeded expectations for four in five passengers. Four in ten said headroom was better than expected.

Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## imiakhtar

cb4 said:


> Data from ANA reported that the 787 surpasses the 20% fuel burn reduction promised by Boeing as compared to the 767. On the Tokyo-Frankfurt route the fuel savings was 21%.[161] As part of this report the passenger experience was also rated. Nine in ten passengers said it surpassed their expectations and a quarter said they would go out of their way to fly the 787 again. Air quality and cabin pressure met or exceeded expectations for nine in ten passengers, and 92% of passengers reported that the cabin ambience was as good or better than they expected. Higher humidity levels in the cabin met or exceeded expectations for four in five passengers. Four in ten said headroom was better than expected.
> 
> Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I was aware of the ANA experience as the airline industry is one I follow very closely.

However, first point of order is that PIA does not operate any 767s. Furthermore, that comparison would not be relevant vs the A310 in PIA's case as FRA-NRT is a 5000nm sector on which the fuel delta against the 767 would be greatest. If you were to compare the 787 to a310 on the domestic and middle-eastern routes, the fuel burn savings would probably be less than 5%.

Last but not least, although fuel is the largest cost facing airlines, you have to balance that with the cost of ownership. It could very well work out cheaper to own and operate a current generation B767 or A310 if they're paid off which PIA A310s are. For example, Lufthansa and British Airways have recently been refurbishing their B747-400s, some of which are approaching 20 years old. They could just as well order the 77W to replace them. However, the 77Ws high cost of ownership currently outweighs the savings they would achieve through 20% lower fuel burn and maintenance costs.*

* I will add this all depends on the price of jet fuel. Fuel prices are stable at the moment at around $3.3/gallon. Should they start to increase, airlines could very well reach another tipping point as they did around 2007 and start accelerating 747 retirements.

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## Edevelop

imiakhtar said:


> I was aware of the ANA experience as the airline industry is one I follow very closely.
> 
> However, first point of order is that PIA does not operate any 767s. Furthermore, that comparison would not be relevant vs the A310 in PIA's case as FRA-NRT is a 5000nm sector on which the fuel delta against the 767 would be greatest. If you were to compare the 787 to a310 on the domestic and middle-eastern routes, the fuel burn savings would probably be less than 5%.
> 
> Last but not least, although fuel is the largest cost facing airlines, you have to balance that with the cost of ownership. It could very well work out cheaper to own and operate a current generation B767 or A310 if they're paid off which PIA A310s are. For example, Lufthansa and British Airways have recently been refurbishing their B747-400s, some of which are approaching 20 years old. They could just as well order the 77W to replace them. However, the 77Ws high cost of ownership currently outweighs the savings they would achieve through 20% lower fuel burn and maintenance costs.*
> 
> ** I will add this all depends on the price of jet fuel. Fuel prices are stable at the moment at around $3.3/gallon. Should they start to increase, airlines could very well reach another tipping point as they did around 2007 and start accelerating 747 retirements.*



But in Pakistan's case, we have to import fuel. At this situation, the question of sustainability comes into play. If we start to face shortages or high price, then i guess at one stage people will try to make aircrafts run on CNG. 

On a serious note, we are loosening our pockets to buy B777. The unit cost of B777 200ER (maximum of 225 seats) is $258 Million. In comparison, the B787-8 (maximum of 210 seats), costs $206 million. Looking at fuel efficiency plus cost to capacity ratio, i would go for Boeing 787-8


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## imiakhtar

cb4 said:


> But in Pakistan's case, we have to import fuel. At this situation, the question of sustainability comes into play. If we start to face shortages or high price, then i guess at one stage people will try to make aircrafts run on CNG.
> 
> On a serious note, we are loosening our pockets to buy B777. The unit cost of B777 200ER (maximum of 225 seats) is $258 Million. In comparison, the B787-8 (maximum of 210 seats), costs $206 million. Looking at fuel efficiency plus cost to capacity ratio, i would go for Boeing 787-8



If you look at jet fuel prices across the world, most airlines are paying around $3.3 give or take a few cents and that includes Emirates. The only country which offers substantially low cost fuel is Singapore. Emirates airlines and others have been known to fill their tanks up in Singapore because fuel is so cheap.

Also, the aircraft prices you've noted are list prices. The aircraft manufacturers never sell at list price and often offer discounts in the region of 40-60%. PIA received a 50% discount for the recent 77W order and is "paying" $150million/unit compared to unit list price of $300million.
Larger customers such as SouthWest Airlines in the US recently got a whopping 64% discount off their large 737 order.

I may as well give you the numbers for the A380 for comparison sake. Singapore, Qantas and Emirates have been paying in the region of $215-235million per aircraft.

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## Edevelop

imiakhtar said:


> If you look at jet fuel prices across the world, most airlines are paying around $3.3 give or take a few cents and that includes Emirates. The only country which offers substantially low cost fuel is Singapore. Emirates airlines and others have been known to fill their tanks up in Singapore because fuel is so cheap.
> 
> Also, the aircraft prices you've noted are list prices. The aircraft manufacturers never sell at list price and often offer discounts in the region of 40-60%. PIA received a 50% discount for the recent 77W order and is "paying" $150million/unit compared to unit list price of $300million.
> Larger customers such as SouthWest Airlines in the US recently got a whopping 64% discount off their large 737 order.
> 
> I may as well give you the numbers for the A380 for comparison sake. Singapore, Qantas and Emirates have been paying in the region of $215-235million per aircraft.



Do you work for PIA or any other Airline because it seems like you know a lot...


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## imiakhtar

cb4 said:


> Do you work for PIA or any other Airline because it seems like you know a lot...



Nope.

I'm a plant biologist by training and a youth probation worker by trade. 

I just happen to read a lot. 

I recommend flightglobal.com (or if you're only interested in Pakistani aviation keep an eye on historyofpia.com)

FGlobal is probably the best and most reliable source of information. They have a freely accessible magazine archive going back 30 years or so.

(Archive, make that 100 years, access it here: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/index.html)

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## Edevelop

imiakhtar said:


> Nope.
> 
> I'm a plant biologist by training and a youth probation worker by trade.
> 
> I just happen to read a lot.
> 
> I recommend flightglobal.com (or if you're only interested in Pakistani aviation keep an eye on historyofpia.com)
> 
> FGlobal is probably the best and most reliable source of information. They have a freely accessible magazine archive going back 30 years or so.



Same here i'm not in that field. I'm studying medicine. Thanks. I usually read this stuff in my free time....


----------



## Jango

*PIA plane lands safely after engine fire*

KARACHI: A London-bound PIA flight PK-787, carrying airline officials and 167 passengers, landed safely at the Karachi airport as the engine of the plane caught fire soon after take off, eyewitness said.

Emergency was imposed at the airport, while Doctors, ambulances and fire tenders were also put on standby.

However, Director Airport Services Asif Bashir said that the engine of the plane didn&#8217;t catch fire, adding that it only experienced a technical fault.

Speaking to Geo News, a passenger on board the flight said he had not seen any fire however the plane did shake intensely after takeoff.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rumors that it had something to do with compressor. The engine might need to be replaced according to some news and the aircraft grounded for sometime.







http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-75984-PIA-planes-engine-catches-fire,-lands-safely


----------



## razgriz19

cb4 said:


> 787 is 20% more fuel efficient....



yeah but on a 10+ hour long flight.
it won`t same much fuel on short to medium flights.

If boeing introduces a newer variant with shorter range and more passenger capacity, (like they did with 747s) only then its possible to save costs...


----------



## razgriz19

imiakhtar said:


> There's nothing corrupt about it. The tendering process and documents have been very clear and available for all to examine. They were opened at the end of October in the presence of TIP.
> 
> Further, if you've got an issue with the tendering process, perhaps you should lay the blame on your uniform heroes at the MoD who initiated the tender under the retd Air Marshall's direction.
> 
> 
> 
> As above, the tenders were opened at the end of October in Karachi. They will be evaluated and a decision made.
> 
> 
> 
> The tender is for lease. However, there could be flexibility built into the contract giving PIA the option to purchase the aircraft. One of PIA's B777s is leased from ILFC ( I believe it is AP-BHX) with an option for purchase. Recently, PIA cancelled it's lease of A310 aircraft and bought the aircraft from Airbus.
> 
> The B747s in PIAs fleet are in dire repair and are not used on long haul flights. They're used on domestic and middle-eastern sectors.
> 
> The ex-Saudi 747s that have been rumoured are just as old and tired. They wouldn't be much help.
> 
> You are correct in saying the fleet acquisition has been a mess of late. This is due to a number of factors such as poor financial state, a very powerful pilot and engineering union, multiple management changes, poor economy outlook and perhaps most importantly a poor track record in maintaining it's aircraft. You only need to look at the feeble response PIA received from it's initial aircraft tender: ex-jet airways 737s manufactured circa 2000-2001 and egyptair 777-200s with PW engines from 1998-2000. I don't blame PIA from scrapping that tender and organizing a new bid.
> 
> Furthermore the aircraft if leased will be dry-leased. PIA unions would not allow the aircraft to be wet leased as it would outsource their work to contractors.
> 
> 
> Bollocks. You're wrong on all accounts. I can't recall a single aircraft/engine AD in recent years which has prompted an aircraft grounding.
> 
> There is no advantage in a small airline like PIA maintaining multiple engine fleets. That strategy pursued on the A310 and B747 has been a pain in the arse for PIA engineering and is extremely expensive. For example, it costs PIA over $2million to have a Rolls-ROyce RB211 transported out and overhauled. It would be even more expensive to try and do it in house. Some of the A310s are currently grounded due to a shortage of PW and GE engine parts (due to birdstrikes mainly!)
> 
> Realistically, PIA needs to think about closing down the engineering department and contract out engine and airframe maintenance. It would be much cheaper but would the all powerful engineering union and the PPP allow it? after all it would result in job losses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a silly statement. The A330 has outsold the Boeing 777 and Boeing 787 this year. In fact, the A330 would have been a much better fit for PIA over the 777. The only route which require the payload range of the 777 is Pakistan-canada and the pak-usa routes are extremely seasonal. Are two routes enough justification for an aircraft?
> 
> 
> 
> Very much so.
> 
> 
> 
> It's unfortunate that shaheen is having to increase it's domestic service to regional airports. It's one of the reasons why PIA has so many staff and is making very little money due to the regional routes.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet we're constantly told that Pakistan and PIA have the best pilots in the world. Let us hope the ATR fleet doesn't go the way of the Fokker F-50 fleet, many of which had fatal crashes or were written off.
> 
> 
> 
> Embraers may be cheaper however they can not be compared on a like for like basis with the Boeing or Airbus offerings as the latter offer much higher seat counts.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no pilot, training, parts or fleet commonality between airbus and ATR aircraft.



buddy i am an AME.
i know people who have worked on from f-18s to 747s to dc-10.
i dont know who you are or who you work for, but just think before you say something..


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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> Realistically, PIA needs to think about closing down the engineering department and contract out engine and airframe maintenance. It would be much cheaper but would the all powerful engineering union and the PPP allow it? after all it would result in job losses.



Now that you have mentioned it, Emirates does this with their engines. The recent A380 engine problem in Australia, all expenses were borne by the engine manufacturer, Engine Alliance in this case. Emirates pays them a certain amount by hour of the engines they use.


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## imiakhtar

razgriz19 said:


> i dont know who you are or who you work for, but just think before you say something..



Which of my statements are incorrect? I can happily provide sources to reference my posts.



nuclearpak said:


> Now that you have mentioned it, Emirates does this with their engines. The recent A380 engine problem in Australia, all expenses were borne by the engine manufacturer, Engine Alliance in this case. Emirates pays them a certain amount by hour of the engines they use.



These agreements are known as power by the hour and are increasingly used by airlines.

Rolls-Royce makes most of it's money from the TotalCare packages it offers.

Off the top of my head, only the following airlines have dedicated engine MRO facilities for ALL their fleets:

Air France (major MRO provider for CFM and GE engines)

Lufthansa (joint venture with Rolls-Royce - designated MRO and TotalCare provider)
-LH Technik is the largest and most profitable airframe and engine MRO in the world 

Singapore Airlines (joint venture with Rolls-Royce - designated MRO and TotalCare provider)

Cathay pacific used to maintain all it's engine but now the GE engine major maintenance is done in China via a GE MRO provider. It still does all RR in house however via HAESL.

Even Emirates doesn't have a complete MRO capability.

That's it. Three airlines that do all their own engine maintenance.

It would be silly for PIA to try and maintain an expensive MRO capability in house, especially when much of that expertise is with old engines which are on the way out.


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## A.Rafay

*PIA to start Quetta-Kandahar flights from Dec 25*

*ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) will start flights on Quetta-Kandhar route from December 25 this year.
*
This is the first time that a new destination has been initiated after a very long time in the history of airlines.

This was informed in a briefing made to Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf on measures taken by the new management of PIA to improve the operations of PIA at Prime Minister&#8217;s House on Wednesday.

The prime minister expressed the confidence that the new management of PIA shall bring about a turn around in the PIAC with a new passenger friendly face.

He directed that all the grey areas must be addressed and loopholes plugged and economic viability of PIAC ensured.

The prime minister further directed the PIA to consider feasibility of running more flights to Gilgit Baltistan and Chitral.

He was also informed by PIA Managing Director M Junaid Yunus that a business plan of the corporation is being firmed up with emphasis on facilitating the passenger so that business can be attracted. The business plan being worked out is being prepared with the objective of attaining a break even by 2013, he added. The present share of PIA in the international passenger business generating from Pakistan is 32 percent while PIA has a share of 71 percent in the domestic market, said PIAC managing director.

The prime minister was also informed that PIAC has earned operational profit in September and October this year, which sets the tone and pace of recovery.

The PIA managing director informed the prime minister that PIA is acquiring the first airbus which will join in February 2013 followed by four in March 2013 and three in second half of 2013. These narrow body aircrafts will be fuel efficient and lead to massive savings in fuel cost, which presently constitute 55 percent of total revenue earned by the airlines.

The prime minister was also told that a proposal is under consideration to outsource non-core operations to reduce employee to aircraft ratio, which is presently 485 employees per aircraft.

PIAC Chairman and Secretary Defence Lt General (r) Asif Yasin Malik said that the new management envisages an airline, which will neither be employee or government friendly but passenger friendly. The meeting was also attended by high officials of the government.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## imiakhtar

Something for the aviation geeks, a radar feed on flightradar24.com has been established for Northern Pakistan.

A Korean Airlines A330 flight Seoul-Jeddah has just crossed the PURPA intersection at the PAK-China border.

Let's hope the feed lasts!

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## Edevelop

*Improved facilities: Faisalabad Airport to be upgraded, says FCCI president  The Express Tribune*

FAISALABAD: 
The government has decided to upgrade the Faisalabad Airport, the Faisalabad Chamber of Commerce and Industry (FCCI) President Mian Zahid Aslam said on Thursday.
He said the governor had informed the Civil Aviation Authority managing director about this via a letter sent on November 27.
Talking to reporters, the FCCI president appreciated the governors directive and said that the upgrade was proposed by the FCCI during the governors recent visit to the FCCI.
He said that the matter would also be taken up with the prime minister during his visit to Faisalabad on December 8.


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## SHAMK9

*Nas Air Planning to Resume Karachi Flights*
ISLAMABAD: Saudi Arabia based airline Nas Air will start its flights for Karachi soon to facilitate people.

The announcement was made by the Chief Executive of Nas Air airline Marco Renzo here Wednesday in a function arranged to celebrate its one year services in Pakistan.

He said presently Nas Air airline is operating in Islamabad, Lahore and Peshawar cities and providing best facilities to its passengers.

The Chief Executive said that, "Our airline is committed to provide maximum facilities to Pakistani passengers who want to go to Saudi Arabia to perform religions obligation."

Chief Executive Trance Logistics Group Maksood A Latfi said that through the airline, "we want to bring people of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia further closer each other."

He said the airline service would also be extended to other cities of Pakistan to facilitate people.

Maksood said that during current Hajj season the airline has provided best facilities to Hujjaj.

Officials of the Saudi Arabia Embassy have also attended the function.

Copyright APP (Associated Press of Pakistan), 2012


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## A.Rafay

*PIA all set to fly to Kandahar*
PIA all set to fly to Kandahar | The Nation







LAHORE - PIA management has decided to commence flights between Quetta and Kandahar (Afghanistan) from December 25, 2012 on the occasion of the 136th birth anniversary of the father of the nation Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, said spokesman of the airline on Friday.
Quetta and Kandahar are thriving commercial towns and it was a long standing demand of the business communities of both cities to have commercial flights between the two. Initially two flights will operate weekly on the Karachi-Quetta-Kandahar-Quetta-Karachi sector on every Tuesday and Thursday using the ATR aircraft.
The launch of these flights will enable PIA to expand its network in Afghanistan. Currently PIA is only flying to Kabul. These flights will also help connect people in south of Afghanistan to rest of world through the gateway of Quetta.

*PIA to improve reliability, punctuality*

KARACHI - The PIA management&#8217;s immediate goal is to bring down the average age of PIA&#8217;s fleet and improve reliability and punctuality to ensure on time departures and arrivals besides providing world class customer service to the passengers,PIA spokesman said here on Friday.He said that the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) under the present management within few weeks in office has started a process of fleet modernisation and revamping its entire service to turn around in the shortest time period the ailing airline with its new business model.The airline has already been in operating profit for the last two months September-October 2012.The tender has been floated for five narrow body aircraft with delivery of at least four aircraft in first and one in second quarter of 2013 to meet the capacity shortfall. However, the airline has not finalised acquiring any particular type of aircraft.PIA received offers for both Airbus A320 and Boeing 737-800. However, A320 offers are larger in number as compared to Boeing 737-800. Presently, these offers are being evaluated and no final decision regarding induction of either narrow-body aircraft has been finalised.It may be categorically understood that the tender for these aircraft has not been awarded and the evaluation process is still not complete. It is therefore premature to assume which aircraft or engine type will be inducted. Speculative reports create undue bias for evaluators, which may not be in the best interest of the airline, the spokesman added.

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/karachi/08-Dec-2012/pia-to-improve-reliability-punctuality


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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> Something for the aviation geeks, a radar feed on flightradar24.com has been established for Northern Pakistan.
> 
> A Korean Airlines A330 flight Seoul-Jeddah has just crossed the PURPA intersection at the PAK-China border.
> 
> Let's hope the feed lasts!



Yeah. Any idea where the radar is based? It shows as T-F4V.

Secondly, the radar coverage has been steadily increased since it started. It is now deep into India almost as Jalandhar, and covers the border and a bit beyond on the west, as far as Jhang on the South, and Gilgit up north. So very decent coverage.

A little problem though is the final approach on Isl airport. It all gets messed up quite often, and the info is showing wrong when the plane is on the ground. It doesn't show altitude as zero, rather it is fixed as 1000+ feet, and suddenly vanishes, taxi patterns are sometimes shown.

And finally, the radar is beyond Lahore, but still no aircraft landing or taking off from Lahore are shown. Why?



SHAMK9 said:


> *Nas Air Planning to Resume Karachi Flights*
> ISLAMABAD: Saudi Arabia based airline Nas Air will start its flights for Karachi soon to facilitate people.
> 
> The announcement was made by the Chief Executive of Nas Air airline Marco Renzo here Wednesday in a function arranged to celebrate its one year services in Pakistan.



Another blow to PIA on the Karachi-Saudia sector.

Karachi-Gulf is a lost cause for PIA IMO.


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## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> Another blow to PIA on the Karachi-Saudia sector.
> 
> Karachi-Gulf is a lost cause for PIA IMO.


PIA is loosing it passengers to airblue in Manchester too, AirBlue's fare is £513 meanwhile £700 for PIA.


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## Jango

SHAMK9 said:


> PIA is loosing it passengers to airblue in Manchester too, AirBlue's fare is £513 meanwhile £700 for PIA.



That is more of a competitive competition IMO, PIA might bring up better offers through cheaper tickets, more luggage capacity etc.

But Karachi is just dominated by Gulf carriers, Emirates alone has 5 flights a day!!!

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## Edevelop

*Air Arabia adds third destination in Pakistan with launch of service to Sialkot*






Air Arabia, the first and largest low-cost carrier (LCC) in the Middle East and North Africa, today announced that it has added its third destination in Pakistan with the launch of flights to the city of Sialkot, and becomes first UAE carrier to operate scheduled flights to Sialkot. The new route is Air Arabia&#8217;s third destination in Pakistan and 82nd worldwide.

Air Arabia will offer daily services to Sialkot, departing from Sharjah International Airport at 22:45 and arriving at Sialkot International Airport at 02:45 (next day). Return flights will depart from Sialkot at 03:25 and arrive in Sharjah at 06:15. The inaugural flight, G90567 will take-off from Sharjah International Airport on Thursday, 10 January 2013. 

The launch of services to Sialkot will complement Air Arabia&#8217;s existing flights to Karachi and Peshawar. The launch of Sialkot follows the recent announcement of Air Arabia increasing flights to Karachi and Peshawar to daily. With the launch of Sialkot, the carrier now offers 21 weekly non-stop services covering three destinations in Pakistan.

&#8220;The launch of our regular Sialkot service is a continuation of Air Arabia&#8217;s promise to offer value for money fares to multiple destinations in Pakistan,&#8221; said Adel Ali, Group Chief Executive Officer, Air Arabia. &#8220;Since launching operations to Pakistan five years ago, we have been committed to offering our customers a unique option for affordable air travel and a great connectivity between both nations. The new service to Sialkot further contributes to the travel needs between Pakistan and the UAE. That being said, we look forward to developing our services to reach more destinations in Pakistan.&#8221;

Sialkot is a city and capital of Sialkot District located in the north-east of the Punjab province in Pakistan at the foot of Kashmir hills near the Chenab River. 

Air Arabia operates a single aircraft model, the world&#8217;s best selling commercial jetliner ever, the Airbus A320. Across its entire fleet, Air Arabia aircraft interior cabin is fitted with a world-class comfort seats offering highest seat pitch of any economy cabin across the globe and therefore, offering passengers extra leg room to sit back and relax during their flight.

Air Arabia adds third destination in Pakistan with launch of service to Sialkot | Al Bawaba

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## SHAMK9

*Cargo Flights from New Benazir Bhutto International Air Port to Start by February 2013*
ISLAMABAD, Dec 11 (APP): Federal Defence Minister, Syed Naveed Qamar Tuesday said that efforts were being made to start cargo service from New Benazir Bhutto International Airport (NBBIA) by end of February, next year. Talking to media persons at PIA building here, he said that all the concerned departments had already been directed to complete road-connectivity work, provision of electricity and water. He said that the airport would be ready for commercial flights in next two years.

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## Saleem

they stop naming airports etc after people especially dead corrupt politicians...just give them the city name....

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## SHAMK9




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## SHAMK9

*Sialkot Airport terminal building getting equipped with passenger boarding bridges *

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## Imran Khan

just a look corruption in PIA

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## SHAMK9

*PIA Board of Directors Approves Acquisition of Airbus A320 Aircraft on Lease*
According to Geo News, PIA Board of Directors has approved acquisition of five used Airbus A320 aircraft on dry lease. These A320s are powered with International Aero Engines IAE V2500 series engines.


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## RazorMC

Imran Khan said:


> just a look corruption in PIA



This was an eye-opener for me. I knew PIA insiders were corrupt, but the sheer scale of corruption is what surprised me. Mismanagement on such proportions should be considered treason and all culprits should be tried with an iron-fist.

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## A.Rafay

*PIA begins Quetta-Kandahar Flights*
QUETTA: PK-198 on the way to Kandhar after inaugural ceremony of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) air service forms Quetta-Kandhar, as its first flight PK-198 with passengers on board took off from Quetta International Airport.







QUETTA: Airhostess welcoming the passengers on PK-198 after inaugural ceremony of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) air service forms Quetta-Kandhar, as its first flight PK-198 with passengers on board took off from Quetta International Airport.


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## SHAMK9

*Five leased Airbus A320 Aircraft to Join PIA Fleet by March 2013*
A320s to help in bringing down fuel cost

December 28 - According to Defence Ministry officials quoted by local news channels, five leased Airbus A320 aircraft will join PIA fleet by March/April 2013. The aircraft will be on five year dry lease.

*By October 2013, three more A320s will join PIA bringing total number of the aircraft type in airline's fleet to eight.
*
55 percent of PIA expenditure spent on jet fuel bills will come down to 45 percent with the induction of A320s by March 2013.


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## SHAMK9

PIA to launch Chicago and Glasgow from May 2013.After successful launching of Kandahar, PIA is planning to launch Kashghar,Mashhad and Najaf. Management has plans to re-establish new destinations in South East Asia,particularly through Karachi.


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## Gentelman

SHAMK9 said:


> *Five leased Airbus A320 Aircraft to Join PIA Fleet by March 2013*
> A320s to help in bringing down fuel cost
> 
> December 28 - According to Defence Ministry officials quoted by local news channels, five leased Airbus A320 aircraft will join PIA fleet by March/April 2013. The aircraft will be on five year dry lease.
> 
> *By October 2013, three more A320s will join PIA bringing total number of the aircraft type in airline's fleet to eight.
> *
> 55 percent of PIA expenditure spent on jet fuel bills will come down to 45 percent with the induction of A320s by March 2013.



what?? leased????
noooooo.....
why they don't just buy??
PIA needs it's self owned jets...
well PIA situation is improving soo i hope they will get some new in near future..
by the way for how much time PIA is getting them???


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## SHAMK9

Gentelman said:


> what?? leased????
> noooooo.....
> why they don't just buy??
> PIA needs it's self owned jets...
> well PIA situation is improving soo i hope they will get some new in near future..
> by the way for how much time PIA is getting them???


Buying them is not as efficient as leasing, with leased planes, you can just return them when ever the lease ends, even emirates owns less planes thn PIA, rest of their planes are all leased, the leasing period for these jets is 3 years.


----------



## Gentelman

SHAMK9 said:


> Buying them is not as efficient as leasing, with leased planes, you can just return them when ever the lease ends, even emirates owns less planes thn PIA, rest of their planes are all leased, the leasing period for these jets is 3 years.



well who is responsible for a jet crash???
and just for 3 years..
should be atleast 5-6....


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## Edevelop

*Air Arabia launches daily flights to Sialkot in Pakistan from its Sharjah base*

Air Arabia connected the third most populous city of the UAE, Sharjah (SHJ) and Sialkot (SKT) in the north-eastern Pakistani province of Punjab on 10 January. Operating daily flights with A320 in a 162-seat configuration, the airline now competes with and Shaheen Airs thrice- and Pakistan International Airlines twice-weekly departures, which are already offered on this 2000-kilometre route.


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## imiakhtar

SHAMK9 said:


> the leasing period for these jets is 3 years.



Incorrect. All of Emirates' lease periods are for a period of 10 years or more. Occasionally, Emirates will extend the lease if the lessors agree for a few years.

British Airways recently announced they're leasing some more 77Ws. I believe the lease period is five years.

Point being most lease periods are 5+ years in length. The shorter the lease, the less cost-effective it becomes.

According to the PIA tender documents, the A320s shall be dry leased. I have posted the tender documents a few pages back. This means the airlines is responsible for crew and maintenance and from an operational standpoint, the aircraft is used/treated as though it was owned by the airline.


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## SHAMK9

imiakhtar said:


> Incorrect. All of Emirates' lease periods are for a period of 10 years or more. Occasionally, Emirates will extend the lease if the lessors agree for a few



I was talking about PIA jets, they will be leased for three years.


----------



## Jango

PESHAWAR, Jan 17: The Peshawar High Court on Thursday directed the defence ministry to expedite legislation for making the Safety and Investigation Board (SIB) of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) an independent and autonomous body.

The bench comprising Chief Justice Dost Mohammad Khan and Justice Irshad Qaiser asked the ministry to ensure that no one from CAA or PIA and even the defence secretary should have any administrative control on SIB.

Also, CAA was told to produce certified transcript of the commu-nication and conversation made by the pilot of the Airblue plane, which crashed in July 2010, with different control towers, including that of Islamabad`s airport and radar staff.

The bench issued the order after observing that the re-investigation report prepared by international aviation experts and submitted to the court was incomplete as the terms of reference formulated by the high court were not answered nor was the script of the communication and conversation by the deceased pilot of the plane with different control towers and radar staff annexed with it.

It was hearing a writ petition offormer MNA Marvi Memon and relatives of some passengers of the plane, which crashed on July 28, 2010.

They have prayed the court to order independent inquiry into the crash and also provision of appropriate compensation to the bereaved families.

In Nov last, the bench had ordered that the CAA should explain why the SIB should not be made fully autonomous so that it should not be under control and influence of any bureaucrat and government in accordance with the recommendations of a team of International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).

Senior legal director of CAAObaidur Rehman Abbasi and defence ministry lawyer Tanveerul Islam informed the court on Tuesday that a summary prepared by the defence ministry had been referred to the prime minister for approval. They added that after approval, rules would be framed by the defence ministry.

The two submitted a copy of the said summary to the bench that states the independence of SIB of CAA and making it as AIC (Accident Investigation Commission) in line with the guidelines of ICAO involves a number of changes not only in the Civil Aviation Rules 1994 but establishment of an organisational set up.Mr Abbasi said the Airblue plane crash was not outcome of any conspiracy and it was due to the error of the pilot, the fact which was also endorsed by the international experts. He added that CAA was among the top 10 aviation authorities in the world.Mr Abbasi said CAA had not been compromising safety of flights. He added that it had been engaged in litigation with the district coordination officer (now deputy commissioner) of Chitral, who had been building a house within 350 feet of the airstrip, which was in violation of the National Airfield Clearance Policy.

Also, the bench gave time to lawyer for petitioners OmerFarooq Adam to consult their clients whether they want to withdraw their civil suits filed with the Islamabad High Court and continue with the present petition or not.

Abdul Lateef Yousafzai, representing the Airblue management, contended that they had paid compensation to majority of the legal heirs of the deceased passengers and only few were left as they had filed civil suits before the Islamabad High Court. He asked how compensation of Rs five million could be paid to these persons on the order of the PHC when they had started fresh round of litigation in Islamabad. 

Autonomy of CAA safety board Defence ministry directed to expedite legislation | ePaper | DAWN.COM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is high time that proper investigators are tasked with the job rather than retired judges, Traffic police officials and bureaucrats.

This move will also lessen the political affect on the investigative body.


----------



## airomerix

*UPDATE:
*
Shaheen Air Internation is set to induct Airbus A320s for regional flights to middle east as the range of Boeing 737-400 is deemed short. Currently Shaheen Air operates 4 x A330-200s, 12 x Boeing 737-400s.


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## airomerix

PIA to start serving refreshments instead of costly meals on domestic flights. 

Daily Express News Story


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## airomerix

*ISLAMABAD, Jan 22 (NNI): PIA plans to get 9 new aircraft on dry lease. Of these&#8218; 4 will be inducted by April and 5 by the end of 2013.*

To a supplementary question&#8218; the defense minister said PIA has sent a business plan to the government to further improve its efficiency. Under this plan&#8218; old fleet of PIA will be replaced with new aircraft.

He said that induction of new aircraft will help PIA reopen its profitable routes.


*Lahore, January 24, 2013:* Managing Director PIA Capt. Muhammad Junaid Yunus has said that with the induction of Airbus A320 aircraft in PIA fleet the airline will be saving around 54% in fuel costs.

With the induction of aircraft in PIA fleet the flight schedule of the airline will also improve, he added.

Source: PIA Press Release (January 24, 2013)


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## Jango

airomerix said:


> *UPDATE:
> *
> Shaheen Air Internation is set to induct Airbus A320s for regional flights to middle east as the range of Boeing 737-400 is deemed short. Currently Shaheen Air operates *4 x A330-200s*, 12 x Boeing 737-400s.



Correction there, it has 3 A332's.

Interesting choice with the A320, would be much better than the 737 and be economical and also be used on the long haul route to Europe.



airomerix said:


> *Lahore, January 24, 2013:* Managing Director PIA Capt. Muhammad Junaid Yunus has said that with the induction of Airbus A320 aircraft in PIA fleet the airline will be saving around 54% in fuel costs.
> 
> With the induction of aircraft in PIA fleet the flight schedule of the airline will also improve, he added.
> 
> Source: PIA Press Release (January 24, 2013)



54% is a whopping improvement. Only thing that makes this number look true is that the 747 routes will now change, as well as the 737 will be phased out or used less.


----------



## airomerix

nuclearpak said:


> Correction there, it has 3 A332's.
> 
> Interesting choice with the A320, would be much better than the 737 and be economical and also be used on the long haul route to Europe.



The 4th one is to arrive shortly as it is currrently in Brussels. Shaheen Air Airbus A330-301 (VQ-BEQ) test flight VLK-1704 conducted on January 11, 2013, from Brussels Airport observed on Flightradar24.com

VQ-BEQ - Vladivostok Air - Flightradar24

The test flight path shows the A330 after takeoff from Brussels Airport entered deep into French air space and then returned back to Brussels Airport.

As for A320's, Its defeinitely a smart choice. I personally think the decision for B737-400 was a bad one. That money could have been spent on A320's or A321's. 




> 54% is a whopping improvement. Only thing that makes this number look true is that the 747 routes will now change, as well as the 737 will be phased out or used less.



The figure is given by PIA. So there is a plausible chance for it to be incorrect. Alone 737's cannot eat 54% of the airlines fuel.q


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## Jango

airomerix said:


> The 4th one is to arrive shortly as it is currrently in Brussels. Shaheen Air Airbus A330-301 (VQ-BEQ) test flight VLK-1704 conducted on January 11, 2013, from Brussels Airport observed on Flightradar24.com
> 
> VQ-BEQ - Vladivostok Air - Flightradar24
> 
> The test flight path shows the A330 after takeoff from Brussels Airport entered deep into French air space and then returned back to Brussels Airport.



VQ-BEQ is AP-BKN, the 3rd A330.

Shaheen Air Fleet Details and History - Planespotters.net Just Aviation

Additionally, the SAI website shows 3 A-333's it has acquired.

Welcome to Shaheen Air International


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## airomerix

nuclearpak said:


> VQ-BEQ is AP-BKN, the 3rd A330.
> 
> Shaheen Air Fleet Details and History - Planespotters.net Just Aviation
> 
> Additionally, the SAI website shows 3 A-333's it has acquired.
> 
> Welcome to Shaheen Air International



Yes sorry my bad. I was under an impression that SAI had ordered 4 x A330s. 

It means there are 3 x A330's 

AP-BKM (first one)
AP-BKL
AP-BKN


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## Donatello

nuclearpak said:


> Correction there, it has 3 A332's.
> 
> *Interesting choice with the A320, would be much better than the 737 and be economical and also be used on the long haul route to Europe.*




From Pakistan, Europe isn't exactly a long haul, and Airbus A320s are definitely not long haul planes. In any case, the problem is also the way our Airports are built. No one wants to transit through Karachi and Lahore. Look at Gulf airlines, Etihad, Emirates, Qatar......with new fleets they also got new airports that are designed to easily transfer people between connections. So people coming from Far east can easily transit to next one on the way to west.

Plus A340s and 777-200 LR do make long hauls possible, flying 15 hours or more non-stop.

I don't fly PIA from UK or USA, i mean do i want a transit through Lahore/Islamabad on my way to Karachi or via Dubai? My Choice is pretty easy.

I hope New Islamabad Airport can make it easier.

Secondly, PIA really needs to get load back on it's aircraft.....and the way to do that is to fly more non-stop flights to the west....and stop flying 747s and 777s on local routes. 747s and 777s can only pay back on long routes. For short routes like Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad and in between PIA needs to look at Jets like A319 or maybe even Embraer, operating them as shuttles. They small and efficient, so turnaround times are less


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## Jango

Donatello said:


> From Pakistan, Europe isn't exactly a long haul, and Airbus A320s are definitely not long haul planes. In any case, the problem is also the way our Airports are built. No one wants to transit through Karachi and Lahore. Look at Gulf airlines, Etihad, Emirates, Qatar......with new fleets they also got new airports that are designed to easily transfer people between connections. So people coming from Far east can easily transit to next one on the way to west.



Saudia flies to Germany with a 320, so do some other airlines. Biman flies to 5 hour journeys. Some American carriers as well. 

5-6 hour flights on a 320 is long haul by narrow body standard IMO. Definitely a quantum leap with the 737. SAI flights from Lahore to the western region of Middle East make stops in Karachi etc.



> I don't fly PIA from UK or USA, i mean do i want a transit through Lahore/Islamabad on my way to Karachi or Dubai? Choice is pretty easy.
> 
> I hope New Islamabad Airport can make it easier.



I didn't quite get you there...I am not really familiar with PIA flight schedule but doesn't it do direct to UK? 

I agree though that having stops with PIA flights at airports like JIAP and AAIA is tough for pax. What is the need to do a stop at Lahore or Karachi while going to New York from Isl???



> Secondly, PIA really needs to get load back on it's aircraft.....and the way to do that is to fly more non-stop flights to the west....



It is losing alot of traffic to ME carriers. People prefer a flight on EK or EY or some other airline to their base in ME (People don't really complain with a 5 hour stop in Dubai!), and then proceed further to Europe/US.

Karachi is a lost cause. EK does 5 flights a day to Karachi!!!

With the bad publicity, people who cannot afford EK choose SAI or Air Blue instead of PIA then!!


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## Donatello

nuclearpak said:


> Saudia flies to Germany with a 320, so do some other airlines. Biman flies to 5 hour journeys. Some American carriers as well.
> 
> 5-6 hour flights on a 320 is long haul by narrow body standard IMO. Definitely a quantum leap with the 737. SAI flights from Lahore to the western region of Middle East make stops in Karachi etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't quite get you there...I am not really familiar with PIA flight schedule but doesn't it do direct to UK?
> 
> I agree though that having stops with PIA flights at airports like JIAP and AAIA is tough for pax. What is the need to do a stop at Lahore or Karachi while going to New York from Isl???
> 
> 
> 
> It is losing alot of traffic to ME carriers. People prefer a flight on EK or EY or some other airline to their base in ME (People don't really complain with a 5 hour stop in Dubai!), and then proceed further to Europe/US.
> 
> Karachi is a lost cause. EK does 5 flights a day to Karachi!!!
> 
> With the bad publicity, people who cannot afford EK choose SAI or Air Blue instead of PIA then!!




This time when i went back home from London Heathrow, the PIA 777 went via Lahore to Karachi, and we didn't even get off the plane, 2 hours on the plane. They dropped the Lahore passengers off and took Lahore to Karachi passengers on. I mean i don't want that. PIA does fly direct to Pakistan but only a handful of flights. 

I agree that Europe is achievable with A320s, but then considering on that distance, you might wanna up the plane to a higher passenger carrier to make more money, like 777 or 747. That's why we have Emirates and Lufthansa flying A380s to Europe.

I flew PIA first time internationally, this time, cause they price difference was almost 200 quid, otherwise i always fly Qatar or Emirates. It's just easy to stroll around Dubai airport.


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## Jango

Donatello said:


> This time when i went back home from London Heathrow, the PIA 777 went via Lahore to Karachi, and we didn't even get off the plane, 2 hours on the plane. They dropped the Lahore passengers off and took Lahore to Karachi passengers on. I mean i don't want that. PIA does fly direct to Pakistan but only a handful of flights.



I can only imagine your plight!!! I once had the same situation, the bigger problem though was that the there was some APU problem, and the AC was not working quite up to the standard, and the FA told me that this is standard (as if I was a illiterate aloof from aviation!)



> I agree that Europe is achievable with A320s, but then considering on that distance, you might wanna up the plane to a higher passenger carrier to make more money, like 777 or 747. That's why we have Emirates and Lufthansa flying A380s to Europe.



EK flies A380 to Jeddah!!! But we are talking about SAI. New 320's mean that load from 330 can be taken off and 330 can be better utilized for true long haul routes rather than doing hops to ME. Frequency of flights could be altered, so could the number of destinations. 

A win win for SAI this!!!


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## janu.bravo

Right now PIA has ordered 5 777-300ER and got an option of 5 more...I think PIA should avail option too....with that the strength of 777 will be of 19 including 13 777-300ER. and that will be enough for international routes and for HUJJ operations. For domestic use, PIA should acquire around 10 A-320 on lease;


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## Jango

@Donatello , I searched a bit about the direct flight to US thing, and the problem is that US does not allow direct PK flights to mainland US (security concerns). So PIA flights have to make a stop over at some EU country for a second security clearance by US agents (even though US agents are present at Pak airports as well), and also a detailed security check of aircraft and pax. 

PIA prefers the stop to be at Manchester...


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## SHAMK9

janu.bravo said:


> Right now PIA has ordered 5 777-300ER and got an option of 5 more...I think PIA should avail option too....with that the strength of 777 will be of 19 including 13 777-300ER. and that will be enough for international routes and for HUJJ operations. For domestic use, PIA should acquire around 10 A-320 on lease;


They should throw away those ugly whales, the a310's.



nuclearpak said:


> @Donatello , I searched a bit about the direct flight to US thing, and the problem is that US does not allow direct PK flights to mainland US (security concerns). So PIA flights have to make a stop over at some EU country for a second security clearance by US agents (even though US agents are present at Pak airports as well), and also a detailed security check of aircraft and pax.
> 
> *PIA prefers the stop to be at Manchester*...


I think it will be replaced by Shannon in a few months.


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## Jango

SHAMK9 said:


> I think it will be replaced by Shannon in a few months.



Good thing you mentioned it.

Why the heck is PIA restarting Shannon? I have no idea about the load factor on this route or anything, but word has it that a group of industrialists and businessmen met Rental Raja and urged him to restart Shannon flights.

PIA cancelled it due to low pax load. 

Let's see whether the load now after restarting is more significant...


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## SHAMK9

nuclearpak said:


> Good thing you mentioned it.
> 
> Why the heck is PIA restarting Shannon? I have no idea about the load factor on this route or anything, but word has it that a group of industrialists and businessmen met Rental Raja and urged him to restart Shannon flights.
> 
> PIA cancelled it due to low pax load.
> 
> Let's see whether the load now after restarting is more significant...


It was mentioned somewhere last year that PIA had to make longer stays at Manchester for flights to America due to security clearances/baggage checks etc but the process at Shannon is much more easier and less time consuming.


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## Jango

SHAMK9 said:


> It was mentioned somewhere last year that PIA had to make longer stays at Manchester for flights to America due to security clearances/baggage checks etc but the process at Shannon is much more easier and less time consuming.



I don't suppose that there would be any guarantees for that!!! US Agents can always be a handful!

But I suppose that the supposedly less traffic at Shannon would have been taken into consideration, coupled with perhaps lower landing and parking charges.

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## Jango

The third Shaheen A-330 AP-BKN has arrived at Jinnah International.







http://www.facebook.com/ShaheenAirOfficial


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## SHAMK9

Shaheen's a320

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## Edevelop

*PIA introduces Boeing 777 to Leeds Bradford Airport*






Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has announced the introduction of Boeing 777 operations on their non-stop services from Leeds Bradford Airport (LBA) to Islamabad.

This larger aircraft, renowned for its comfort and spaciousness, will offer enhanced cabin facilities providing 35 business class seats and 294 in economy. Passengers in both economy and business class will benefit from increased leg room and a wide selection of refreshments from lights snacks to delicious meals.
Comprehensive in-flight entertainment with the latest films, music and games will also be available.

PIA has introduced the Boeing 777 aircraft due to the high demand from travellers in Bradford and the surrounding Yorkshire region who want to fly to and from Pakistan from their local airport.
The airline will introduce the aircraft on the existing twice weekly LBA schedule on a Wednesday and Saturday.
Tony Hallwood, Commercial Director at LBA, said: &#8220;We have been working closely with the local community and businesses to introduce Boeing 777 operations at LBA.

"We are now delighted that we have been able to secure this important PIA Boeing 777 flagship service to meet the growing demand from both the Yorkshire region as well as the airline&#8217;s customers in Islamabad&#8221;
Pakistan International Airline&#8217;s Manager at Leeds Bradford, Muhammad Shafique added: &#8220;This is excellent news for Leeds Bradford and the entire region that we serve, confirming our confidence in LBA&#8217;s status as Yorkshire&#8217;s premier international gateway for our customers. With the upgraded facilities available on the Boeing 777 for both business and leisure travel, alongside a competitive fare, we are confident that more Yorkshire passengers will decide to fly with PIA.".

PIA introduces Boeing 777 to Leeds Bradford Airport &#40;From Asian Image)


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## Edevelop

SHAMK9 said:


> Shaheen's a320


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## Edevelop

*Flydubai starting 3 weekly flights to Multan in march*

Flights to the north-eastern city of Silkot and Multan, located in central Pakistan, will operate three times a week from 13 March 2013 and 14 March 2013 respectively.

FlyDubai's CEO, Ghaith Al Ghaith, said, "Our flights to Karachi have been busy since operations began in June 2010. With a significant number of expatriates living in the UAE, and established trade links, we expect these new destinations to be equally successful as people seek affordable fares between our nations."

Flight Details

Sialkot: Flights to Sialkot will operate on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. FZ337 is scheduled to depart Dubai Terminal 2 at 0025, arriving in Sialkot at 0425 local time. Return flight, FZ338, will leave Sialkot at 0525, landing in Dubai at 0815 local time.

Multan: Flights to Multan will operate on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. FZ339 will take-off from Dubai Terminal 2 at 0030, landing in Multan at 0405 local time, with return flight FZ340, departing Multan at 0505, with a scheduled arrival time in Dubai of 0715 local time.

All fares are inclusive of taxes plus one piece of hand luggage weighing up to 7kg and one small laptop bag or handbag. Once on board, passengers can choose from a range of optional extras, including in-flight entertainment packages or select from the varied menu of refreshments and Duty Free items.

FlyDubai expands Pakistan network | FlyDubai | AMEinfo.com


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## muse

Now what FLYDUBAI should do, is operate 200 series leased 747 to destinations in Pakistan at very competitive prices - lt will offer people excellent choice and competition will be good for all operators


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## Edevelop

> *Etihad Airways increases flights to Pakistan*
> 
> Etihad Airways, the national airline of the United Arab Emirates, has increased its flights to the Northern city of Lahore from seven to 11 a week offering passengers more convenient travel options.
> 
> 
> With the addition of the new services, Etihad Airways will now offer 27 weekly flights from four destinations in Pakistan which, along with Lahore, include Karachi, Islamabad and Peshawar.
> 
> The additional services will be operated by A320 aircraft fitted with 16 Pearl Business Class seats and will increase capacity by 21 per cent on the route.
> 
> These services also improve the number of connections over the airline&#8217;s Abu Dhabi hub to more than 500 connections a week (representing an increase of 20 per cent) to a number of key destinations in the GCC and Europe.
> 
> &#8220;The addition of the new flights will further strengthen commercial and cultural ties between Pakistan and the UAE and will lead to continued strong growth in traffic flows between Lahore, Abu Dhabi and beyond to many key destinations across our global network,&#8221; said Kevin Knight, Etihad Airways&#8217; Chief Strategy and Planning Officer.
> 
> Since the start of flights to Lahore in 2006, Etihad Airways has carried more than one million passengers on this route.
> 
> Etihad Airways increases flights to Pakistan - Khaleej Times



PIA is under pressure now.


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## Jango

PIA looks as if it is banking on the new A320's to provide some uplift, otherwise foreign carriers have taken over the Karachi traffic, and are about to take over Lahore and Isl. Couple this with the other two low cost carriers i.e SAI and Airblue, PIA has a huge task up it's sleeve.


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> PIA looks as if it is banking on the new A320's to provide some uplift, otherwise foreign carriers have taken over the Karachi traffic, and are about to take over Lahore and Isl. Couple this with the other two low cost carriers i.e SAI and Airblue, PIA has a huge task up it's sleeve.



Both Emirates and Etihad are using Dubai and Abu Dhabi as hubs to bring in passengers from the West and East and changeover in UAE, very efficiently. Their level of service at competitive prices is giving lots of other airlines headaches. PIA is in deep trouble.


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## SHAMK9

PIA will start flying to Chicago via Barcelona on 5th June


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## Argus Panoptes

SHAMK9 said:


> PIA will start flying to Chicago via Barcelona on 5th June



That is good news, but the real advantage of PIA's 777s is non-stop flights from North America (originally Toronto, New York, Chicago and Houston, now only Toronto) to Pakistan. It is a pity that the US government does not allow PIA to do that due to lack of trust over security arrangements in Pakistani airports. At least the flight to Pakistan can be non-stop while the flight to USA needs to stop over.

The sad thing is that PIA can fly direct to Toronto, but not to USA direct.


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## UmarJustice

PIA, in a bid to overcome delays in flight operations, will induct five aircraft in its fleet on dry lease by March and April this year.

According to official sources, around eight narrow body aircraft (A-320) are being inducted on dry lease in the fleet of the national carrier.

In the first phase, five aircraft will be included during the current year to overcome shortage of planes and improve reliability, punctuality and regularity of flights.

The sources said that PIA's fleet consists of 38 aircraft, out of which, only 29 were in operation.

Currently, 13 planes have been grounded for the maintenance checks and five aircraft will be operational by end of this month, he added.

Some aircraft have been permanently grounded keeping in view the structural/corrosion issues and high cost of recovery.

The sources further revealed that PIA suffered loss during last Hajj operation due to subsidized fare and high fuel cost. PIA had fixed Rs.72,000 fare for the Hajj operation against normal fare of Rs.108,000, he added.

Currently PIA was not operating flights for South Africa and Kenya due to limited market size in African market, lack of commercial viability and fleet constraints.

Five aircraft to be inducted in PIA | The Nation


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## fatman17

UmarJustice said:


> PIA, in a bid to overcome delays in flight operations, will induct five aircraft in its fleet on dry lease by March and April this year.
> 
> According to official sources, around eight narrow body aircraft (A-320) are being inducted on dry lease in the fleet of the national carrier.
> 
> In the first phase, five aircraft will be included during the current year to overcome shortage of planes and improve reliability, punctuality and regularity of flights.
> 
> The sources said that PIA's fleet consists of 38 aircraft, out of which, only 29 were in operation.
> 
> Currently, 13 planes have been grounded for the maintenance checks and five aircraft will be operational by end of this month, he added.
> 
> Some aircraft have been permanently grounded keeping in view the structural/corrosion issues and high cost of recovery.
> 
> The sources further revealed that PIA suffered loss during last Hajj operation due to subsidized fare and high fuel cost. PIA had fixed Rs.72,000 fare for the Hajj operation against normal fare of Rs.108,000, he added.
> 
> Currently PIA was not operating flights for South Africa and Kenya due to limited market size in African market, lack of commercial viability and fleet constraints.
> 
> Five aircraft to be inducted in PIA | The Nation



avenue for more corruption.


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## UmarJustice

*Engine of PIA plane catches fire midair*

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) on Wednesday had to recall its Jeddah-bound plane after fire broke out in one of its engines. According to details, pilot of Karachi-Jeddah PIA flight PK-735 told the control tower about fault in engine number two of the plane a few minutes after take-off. The pilot switched off the affected engine and brought the flight back to Karachi airport for a safe landing.

The aircraft was carrying 465 passengers on board.

Engine of PIA plane catches fire midair | The Nation


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## fatman17

*TI Pakistan advises PIA to procure 20 narrow-body aircraft on dry lease*

February 21, 2013 IQBAL MIRZA 


Transparency International Pakistan has advised Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) to immediately procure 20 narrow body aircraft from Shahid Khaqan Abbassi MNA, who has offered brand new aircraft on lease at half the price for five Airbus 320 being leased by PIA at $36.8 million, with financing from Bank of China. 

In a letter sent by TI-Pakistan Adviser Syed Adil Gilani on February 20 to Captain Muhammad Junaid Younus, Acting Managing Director PIA, he referred to the meeting of the Special Committee of the National Assembly on February 19, where MNA Shahid Khaqan Abbassi offered brand new aircraft on lease at half the price for five Airbus 320 being leased by PIA at $36.8 million, with financing from Bank of China. 

HE QUOTED FOLLOWING DETAILS AS HAVE BEEN REPORTED:

a) The committee was informed that PIA would be getting five Airbus 320 at $36.8 million, with financing from Bank of China. 

b) The committee noted that the five planes which PIA intends to get on dry lease were costly than open market rates. 

c) Shahid Khaqan Abbassi even offered brand new aircraft at lease to PIA at half the price in response to a presentation made by PIA CFO Aftab Ahmed regarding business plan for revival of PIA. 

d) Aftab explained that they had to abide by the PPRA rules and they were not in a position to negotiate. 

Adil Gilani said if the above report was correct, " Transparency International Pakistan would like to suggest PIA to request MNA Shahid Khaqan Abbassi to provide four sets of five Airbus 320 new aircraft as reportedly offered by him in the Committee meeting, for six years dry lease immediately, at half the tendered price of $36.8 million. 

Public Procurement Rules 2004 allows negotiated tendering under Rule No 42 (d) in certain cases. 

RULE 42: ALTERNATIVE METHODS OF PROCUREMENTS: 

A procuring agency may utilise the following alternative methods of procurement of goods, services and works, namely:- 

(d) Negotiated tendering: A procuring agency may engage in negotiated tendering with one or more suppliers or contractors with or without prior publication of a procurement notification. This procedure shall only be used when,- 

(iii) For reasons of extreme urgency brought about by events unforeseeable by the procuring agency, the time limits laid down for open and limited bidding methods cannot be met. The circumstances invoked to justify extreme urgency must not be attributable to the procuring agency: 

Provided that any procuring agency desirous of using negotiated tendering as a method of procurement shall record its reasons and justifications in writing for resorting to negotiated tendering and shall place the same on record. 

PIA has processed procurement of narrow body aircrafts in accordance with requirement of Public Procurement Rules 2004 from October 2012 to February 2013. As the lowest evaluated responsive bidder has offered five Airbus 320 being leased by PIA at $36.8 million, which as stated by MNA Shahid Khaqan Abbassi as double than the market prices, PIA may use Rule No 42 (d) (iii), for accepting the offer of MNA Shahid Khaqan Abbassi of providing four sets of five Airbus 320 or equivalent new aircraft on six-year dry lease immediately, at half the lowest tendered price of $36.8 million. The reason of extreme urgency is due to failure of bidders to offer narrow body aircrafts at economical cost, which is causing loss to PIA of billions of rupees in loss of traffic. PIA shall record the reason of using negotiated tendering under Rule No 42 (d), and justifications for resorting to negotiated tendering, as stated in paragraph five above in writing and shall place the same on record. 

TI-Pakistan was striving for across the board application of Rule of Law, which was the only way to stop corruption, he said. Copies of the letter have been forwarded for the information with the request to take action under the authority vested in their respective jurisdictions: Chairman, Public Accounts Committee, Islamabad; Registrar, Supreme Court of Pakistan, Islamabad; Chairman, NAB, Islamabad; Chairman, PIA, Islamabad; Auditor General, Islamabad; and Managing Director, PPRA, Islamabad. 


Business Recorder, 2013

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## imiakhtar

nuclearpak said:


> PIA looks as if it is banking on the new A320's to provide some uplift.



The A320s will be replacements for the 737 and some a310s. They won't be providing growth. Details of the aircraft offered and bids submitted below:

http://www.ppra.org.pk/elv/1/pia101.pdf

Pictures available here:

History of PIA - Forum :: View topic - Details of Airbus A320 Aircraft Offered on Lease to PIA


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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> The A320s will be replacements for the 737 and some a310s. They won't be providing growth. Details of the aircraft offered and bids submitted below:
> 
> http://www.ppra.org.pk/elv/1/pia101.pdf
> 
> Pictures available here:
> 
> History of PIA - Forum :: View topic - Details of Airbus A320 Aircraft Offered on Lease to PIA



Sir jee I never said that they will provide growth. I said it in the sense that the inoperable and old A310's and 737's will not be wasting time slots and delaying flights, so with the introduction of A320, the flights will be on time and punctual and as planned.

Isphahani hangar will no longer be filled with 10 antique aircraft.


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## Jango

Malik Riaz's new Hawker 4000 has landed in Pakistan.


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## khanboy007

good news

*but*

What about restoration of previous aircraft's 

here is some thing i came across Airliners.net

i agree its not only PIA which has such images, but when aircraft are needed why not restore them







Photos: Boeing 737-340 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net






Photos: Boeing 747-240BM Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net






Photos: Boeing 747-240BM Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

*NOTE: the two boeing 747's are different as seen from their liveries *

atleast not waste those 747's


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## SHAMK9

khanboy007 said:


> good news
> 
> *but*
> 
> What about restoration of previous aircraft's
> 
> here is some thing i came across Airliners.net
> 
> i agree its not only PIA which has such images, but when aircraft are needed why not restore them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos: Boeing 737-340 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos: Boeing 747-240BM Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos: Boeing 747-240BM Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
> 
> *NOTE: the two boeing 747's are different as seen from their liveries *
> 
> atleast not waste those 747's


There is no point of restoring airplanes that are 20 years old, it's waste of money.


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## Argus Panoptes

SHAMK9 said:


> There is no point of restoring airplanes that are 20 years old, it's waste of money.



With airplanes, it is not the time in years, but the number of flying hours, take/off landing cycles and fuel and maintenance costs that really matter for making service life decisions.

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## Capt.Popeye

Argus Panoptes said:


> With airplanes, it is not the time in years, but the number of flying hours, take/off landing cycles and fuel and maintenance costs that really matter for making service life decisions.



True enough. Plus the 747s in today's scenario are proverbial 'Gas-Guzzlers'. If PIA chooses to operate them, PIA will have to wind up in months!

Better that those hulks are turned into pressure-cookers or pots and pans


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## khanboy007

Argus Panoptes said:


> With airplanes, it is not the time in years, but the number of flying hours, take/off landing cycles and fuel and maintenance costs that really matter for making service life decisions.



exactly thats my point 

or 

they should replace it with something equivalent or some thing better 

salvaging boeing 747 is like salvaging a capacity of 400-600 passengers from your airlines


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## khanboy007

SHAMK9 said:


> There is no point of restoring airplanes that are 20 years old, it's waste of money.



yeah right bro......

*an airlines founded with the help of PIA in 1985* (aka Emirates) currently operates Airbus A380's

meanwhile *PIA was founded in 1946* 

and look at where do we stand

atleast replace them with A380's


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## Edevelop

List of aircrafts PIA is interested in:

History of PIA - Forum :: View topic - Details of Airbus A320 Aircraft Offered on Lease to PIA

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## khanboy007

cb4 said:


> List of aircrafts PIA is interested in:
> 
> History of PIA - Forum :: View topic - Details of Airbus A320 Aircraft Offered on Lease to PIA



A320  for *2* 747's  
like 750 passengers for 800-1200 passengers 

what are they doing we are *losing* (1200-750 =350) *350 passengers i.e 2 complete airbus A320's*

anyways atleast they are not leasing very old A320's 

but im still *not happy* with PIA's progress (if the word progress exists in PIA's dictionary !!!!!)

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## SQ8

Ah.. the Khaqan Abbasi clan.. lots of money to offer.

The 320's should offer a reduction in fuel losses and savings.. and are more suited to PIA's current routes.

The 747s can live to come in some other day

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## mehboobkz

> True enough. Plus the 747s in today's scenario are proverbial 'Gas-Guzzlers'.




Airlines go by fuel consumption per seat. jumbo is bigger but so does it accomodate 400 passengers. no wonder 1500 Jumbos have been produced so far. Called queen of the sky.


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## SHAMK9

khanboy007 said:


> atleast replace them with A380's


A380 is not for PIA, besides none of Pakistani airports can handle them. PIA has already made decision of replacing 747's with 77W's. PIA now needs to think about replacing 737-300's and a310's. Couple of a320/a321's and few a330-200's should be the options.

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## SQ8

mehboobkz said:


> Airlines go by fuel consumption per seat. jumbo is bigger but so does it accomodate 400 passengers. no wonder 1500 Jumbos have been produced so far. Called queen of the sky.



But if you are only going to be filling 180 seats.. there is little need for the other 220.


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## Argus Panoptes

PIA's real problem is not the type of aircraft it operates. PIA's real problem is massive over-staffing. It simply has too many employees per airplane, with many of those employees enjoying too many free perks.

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## Pandora

Better to buy couple of new jets rather than leasing 5-6. Leasing has no economic benefits.


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## khanboy007

SHAMK9 said:


> A380 is not for PIA, besides none of Pakistani airports can handle them. PIA has already made decision of replacing 747's with 77W's. PIA now needs to think about replacing 737-300's and a310's. Couple of a320/a321's and few a330-200's should be the options.



by when would the 77W's reach PIA ??

can u kindly post pics of 77W's Thanks 

or is the 777-300er ??


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## SHAMK9

khanboy007 said:


> by when would the 77W's reach PIA ??
> 
> can u kindly post pics of 77W's Thanks
> 
> or is the 777-300er ??


2015, yea, the 777-300er



smuhs1 said:


> Better to buy couple of new jets rather than leasing 5-6. Leasing has no economic benefits.



Airline business is different, there are lots of benefits of leasing instead of buying them, Emirates owns around 20 jets, rest are leased. They will be returned to owner when they age.

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## khanboy007

SHAMK9 said:


> 2015, yea, the 777-300er
> 
> 
> 
> Airline business is different, there are lots of benefits of leasing instead of buying them, Emirates owns around 20 jets, rest are leased. They will be returned to owner when they age.




I still remember that the first 777-200 LR (Long Range) built was in service with PIA  (good times) 

Boeing 777 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

they should go for the fuel efficient 777's


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## SHAMK9

khanboy007 said:


> I still remember that the first 777-200 LR (Long Range) built was in service with PIA  (good times)
> 
> Boeing 777 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> they should go for the fuel efficient 777's


PIA was tricked into buying the 200lr version by Boeing, the only reason PIA got them was because they were promised direct flights to USA from Pakistan.


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## darkinsky

Oscar said:


> Ah.. the Khaqan Abbasi clan.. lots of money to offer.
> 
> The 320's should offer a reduction in fuel losses and savings.. and are more suited to PIA's current routes.
> 
> The 747s can live to come in some other day



747 wont live for ever


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## khanboy007

SHAMK9 said:


> PIA was tricked into buying the 200lr version by Boeing, the only reason PIA got them was because they were promised direct flights to USA from Pakistan.



i cant say tricked, but we played our part in spoiling our own carrier in the airline industry, PIA was on a boom in 2005-2006.



SHAMK9 said:


> A380 is not for PIA, besides none of Pakistani airports can handle them..



one more thing the new islamabad international airport can handle the A380 as the runway is made to handle it so why not use it ???


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## SHAMK9

khanboy007 said:


> one more thing the new islamabad international airport can handle the A380 as the runway is made to handle it so why not use it ???


Runway isn't the only factor you have to look into, the airport must have wide taxiways, terminal building which can handle a380 without disrupting other flights and ground services. NIIA has all of these, I'm sure emirates will send their a380 to inaugurate the new airport and we might see British airways back in Islamabad.


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## khanboy007

SHAMK9 said:


> Runway isn't the only factor you have to look into, the airport must have wide taxiways, terminal building which can handle a380 without disrupting other flights and ground services. NIIA has all of these, I'm sure emirates will send their a380 to inaugurate the new airport and we might see British airways back in Islamabad.



what i mean to say is that the new airport is constructed keeping future plans in mind, and if the runway can handle it so can the terminal building, *THE NEW AIRPORT IS MEANT TO HANDLE IT so make use of it, even if its not able to handle it when built, it has an expansion plan too so the airport can be expanded to accommodate it*   , yeah ur right we may see many other airlines too


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## razgriz19

khanboy007 said:


> good news
> 
> *but*
> 
> What about restoration of previous aircraft's
> 
> here is some thing i came across Airliners.net
> 
> i agree its not only PIA which has such images, but when aircraft are needed why not restore them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos: Boeing 737-340 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos: Boeing 747-240BM Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos: Boeing 747-240BM Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
> 
> *NOTE: the two boeing 747's are different as seen from their liveries *
> 
> atleast not waste those 747's



These aircrafts are in this condition for a REASON.
They have COMPLETED their lives.
And They were not fuel efficient.

New aircraft are needed so PIA can save some on gas.


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## razgriz19

SHAMK9 said:


> PIA was tricked into buying the 200lr version by Boeing, the only reason PIA got them was because they were promised direct flights to USA from Pakistan.



I don't know about US, but PIA visits 3 times a week to Toronto.

This was filmed at YYZ - Toronto Int


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## mehboobkz

Oscar said:


> But if you are only going to be filling 180 seats.. there is little need for the other 220.



PIA In this Case should Convert these Jumbos Into Cargo Carriers.
Or Lease them out....
four mouths are harder to feed.
little traffic does not justify their fleet presence


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## khanboy007

this is how you breakdown a 747


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## haviZsultan

Argus Panoptes said:


> PIA's real problem is not the type of aircraft it operates. PIA's real problem is massive over-staffing. It simply has too many employees per airplane, with many of those employees enjoying too many free perks.



I have heard of this regularly. The PPP government when it took over, inducted a large number of party supporters and workers for no reason at all... now the place is over-staffed. PIA is losing a lot of money and there is no one to stop the money going right down the drain.


----------



## Argus Panoptes

haviZsultan said:


> I have heard of this regularly. The PPP government when it took over, inducted a large number of party supporters and workers for no reason at all... now the place is over-staffed. PIA is losing a lot of money and there is no one to stop the money going right down the drain.



Here you go, Sir:

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

"PIA leads the world in employees per aircraft ratio with *424 employees per aircraft*, while Indian Airlines has 276 and the United Airlines with the highest ratio in the US has 120 employees per aircraft."

====================

(The most efficient airlines are somewhere in the 60-80 employees per aircraft range.)


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## imiakhtar

fatman17 said:


> avenue for more corruption.





fatman17 said:


> *TI Pakistan advises PIA to procure 20 narrow-body aircraft on dry lease*
> 
> February 21, 2013 IQBAL MIRZA
> 
> 
> Transparency International Pakistan has advised Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) to immediately procure 20 narrow body aircraft from Shahid Khaqan Abbassi MNA, who has offered brand new aircraft on lease at half the price for five Airbus 320 being leased by PIA at $36.8 million, with financing from Bank of China.
> 
> In a letter sent by TI-Pakistan Adviser Syed Adil Gilani on February 20 to Captain Muhammad Junaid Younus, Acting Managing Director PIA, he referred to the meeting of the Special Committee of the National Assembly on February 19, where MNA Shahid Khaqan Abbassi offered brand new aircraft on lease at half the price for five Airbus 320 being leased by PIA at $36.8 million, with financing from Bank of China.
> 
> HE QUOTED FOLLOWING DETAILS AS HAVE BEEN REPORTED:
> 
> a) The committee was informed that PIA would be getting five Airbus 320 at $36.8 million, with financing from Bank of China.
> 
> b) The committee noted that the five planes which PIA intends to get on dry lease were costly than open market rates.
> 
> c) Shahid Khaqan Abbassi even offered brand new aircraft at lease to PIA at half the price in response to a presentation made by PIA CFO Aftab Ahmed regarding business plan for revival of PIA.
> 
> d) Aftab explained that they had to abide by the PPRA rules and they were not in a position to negotiate.
> 
> Adil Gilani said if the above report was correct, " Transparency International Pakistan would like to suggest PIA to request MNA Shahid Khaqan Abbassi to provide four sets of five Airbus 320 new aircraft as reportedly offered by him in the Committee meeting, for six years dry lease immediately, at half the tendered price of $36.8 million.
> 
> Public Procurement Rules 2004 allows negotiated tendering under Rule No 42 (d) in certain cases.
> 
> RULE 42: ALTERNATIVE METHODS OF PROCUREMENTS:
> 
> A procuring agency may utilise the following alternative methods of procurement of goods, services and works, namely:-
> 
> (d) Negotiated tendering: A procuring agency may engage in negotiated tendering with one or more suppliers or contractors with or without prior publication of a procurement notification. This procedure shall only be used when,-
> 
> (iii) For reasons of extreme urgency brought about by events unforeseeable by the procuring agency, the time limits laid down for open and limited bidding methods cannot be met. The circumstances invoked to justify extreme urgency must not be attributable to the procuring agency:
> 
> Provided that any procuring agency desirous of using negotiated tendering as a method of procurement shall record its reasons and justifications in writing for resorting to negotiated tendering and shall place the same on record.
> 
> PIA has processed procurement of narrow body aircrafts in accordance with requirement of Public Procurement Rules 2004 from October 2012 to February 2013. As the lowest evaluated responsive bidder has offered five Airbus 320 being leased by PIA at $36.8 million, which as stated by MNA Shahid Khaqan Abbassi as double than the market prices, PIA may use Rule No 42 (d) (iii), for accepting the offer of MNA Shahid Khaqan Abbassi of providing four sets of five Airbus 320 or equivalent new aircraft on six-year dry lease immediately, at half the lowest tendered price of $36.8 million. The reason of extreme urgency is due to failure of bidders to offer narrow body aircrafts at economical cost, which is causing loss to PIA of billions of rupees in loss of traffic. PIA shall record the reason of using negotiated tendering under Rule No 42 (d), and justifications for resorting to negotiated tendering, as stated in paragraph five above in writing and shall place the same on record.
> 
> TI-Pakistan was striving for across the board application of Rule of Law, which was the only way to stop corruption, he said. Copies of the letter have been forwarded for the information with the request to take action under the authority vested in their respective jurisdictions: Chairman, Public Accounts Committee, Islamabad; Registrar, Supreme Court of Pakistan, Islamabad; Chairman, NAB, Islamabad; Chairman, PIA, Islamabad; Auditor General, Islamabad; and Managing Director, PPRA, Islamabad.
> 
> 
> Business Recorder, 2013



Shame, those level headed and well reasoned posts of yours seem to disappear when you babble on the topic of PIA.

Firstly, PIA will be paying market rates for the A320. Due to the PIA's poor credit rating, higher risk and high technical specs of the aircraft requested, the lease rates offered were on the higher end but not unreasonable and within the market norms. Aircraft book and monthly Lease value examples here:

A319  $12.0-34.4M, $120-260,000
A320  $4.0 - 40.5M, $65-300,000
A321  $20.0 - 48.5M, $180-365,000
A330-200  $40.0 - 88.5M, $400-830,000
A340-300  $8.0 -55.0M, $180-490,000
B737-300  $1.8  6.0M, $40-90,000
B737-700 - $13.0 - 36.0M, $140-290,000
B737-800 - $17.0 - 44.5M, $190-350,000
B737-900ER - $33.5 - 48.0M, $290-390,000
B747-400  $12.0  50.0M, $220-550,000
B757-200  $6.0  21.0M, $100-220,000
B767-300ER  $10.0  61.5M, $170-460,000
B777-200ER  $43.0  118.0M, $450-950,000
B777-300ER  $93.0  158.0M, $850-1,400,000
MD-11 - $8.0  13.0M , $150-210,000
MD-82 - $0.7 - 2.2M, $25-48,000
CRJ200  $1.8 - 6.5M, $35-85,000
CRJ700  $10.5  22.5M, $105-225,000
CRJ900 - $13.0  25.0M, $135-250,000
Q400  $10.0  19.5M, $120-220,000
ERJ145  $4.0  8.9M, $45-105,000
EMB170  $14.4  26.2M, $140-240,000
EMB190  $20.7  32.6M, $195-285,000
ATR-72  $6.8  18.1M, $85-180,000

Also, if this Abbassi chap could have gotten A320s at a better rate, why didn't he submit a bid to the tender requirements?



khanboy007 said:


> A320  for *2* 747's
> like 750 passengers for 800-1200 passengers
> 
> what are they doing we are *losing* (1200-750 =350) *350 passengers i.e 2 complete airbus A320's*
> 
> anyways atleast they are not leasing very old A320's
> 
> but im still *not happy* with PIA's progress (if the word progress exists in PIA's dictionary !!!!!)



The A320s are to make up a shortfall in capacity from 737 and A310 groundings and or maintenance work. The 77W will replace the 747s.



smuhs1 said:


> Better to buy couple of new jets rather than leasing 5-6. Leasing has no economic benefits.



How many airlines have billions in capital sitting idle in their banks?



khanboy007 said:


> i cant say tricked, but we played our part in spoiling our own carrier in the airline industry, PIA was on a boom in 2005-2006.



PIA was in a mess in 2005-2006. The problems facing PIA now are due to decisions made a decade ago in the 90s and 2000s.

The Fokker 27 which crashed on takeoff from LHE in 2006 was precipitated by poor engine maintenance.



mehboobkz said:


> PIA In this Case should Convert these Jumbos Into Cargo Carriers.
> Or Lease them out....
> four mouths are harder to feed.
> little traffic does not justify their fleet presence



Nobody would buy the 747s.

There just isn't a market for them.

Why buy a high cycle 747-300 with a three man cockpit, 1980 generation engines, a history of poor maintenance etc when you could just go and pick a 747-400 up from Arizona with up-to-date engines, avionic and interiors for slightly more?


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## mehboobkz

> 747-400 up from Arizona with up-to-date engines, avionic and interiors for slightly more?




Why Arizona of all the places and not Seattle?
before I come to other contents.


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## khanboy007

imiakhtar said:


> Shame, those level headed and well reasoned posts of yours seem to disappear when you babble on the topic of PIA.
> 
> Firstly, PIA will be paying market rates for the A320. Due to the PIA's poor credit rating, higher risk and high technical specs of the aircraft requested, the lease rates offered were on the higher end but not unreasonable and within the market norms. Aircraft book and monthly Lease value examples here:
> 
> A319 &#8211; $12.0-34.4M, $120-260,000
> A320 &#8211; $4.0 - 40.5M, $65-300,000
> A321 &#8211; $20.0 - 48.5M, $180-365,000
> A330-200 &#8211; $40.0 - 88.5M, $400-830,000
> A340-300 &#8211; $8.0 -55.0M, $180-490,000
> B737-300 &#8211; $1.8 &#8211; 6.0M, $40-90,000
> B737-700 - $13.0 - 36.0M, $140-290,000
> B737-800 - $17.0 - 44.5M, $190-350,000
> B737-900ER - $33.5 - 48.0M, $290-390,000
> B747-400 &#8211; $12.0 &#8211; 50.0M, $220-550,000
> B757-200 &#8211; $6.0 &#8211; 21.0M, $100-220,000
> B767-300ER &#8211; $10.0 &#8211; 61.5M, $170-460,000
> B777-200ER &#8211; $43.0 &#8211; 118.0M, $450-950,000
> B777-300ER &#8211; $93.0 &#8211; 158.0M, $850-1,400,000
> MD-11 - $8.0 &#8211; 13.0M , $150-210,000
> MD-82 - $0.7 - 2.2M, $25-48,000
> CRJ200 &#8211; $1.8 - 6.5M, $35-85,000
> CRJ700 &#8211; $10.5 &#8211; 22.5M, $105-225,000
> CRJ900 - $13.0 &#8211; 25.0M, $135-250,000
> Q400 &#8211; $10.0 &#8211; 19.5M, $120-220,000
> ERJ145 &#8211; $4.0 &#8211; 8.9M, $45-105,000
> EMB170 &#8211; $14.4 &#8211; 26.2M, $140-240,000
> EMB190 &#8211; $20.7 &#8211; 32.6M, $195-285,000
> ATR-72 &#8211; $6.8 &#8211; 18.1M, $85-180,000
> 
> Also, if this Abbassi chap could have gotten A320s at a better rate, why didn't he submit a bid to the tender requirements?
> 
> 
> 
> The A320s are to make up a shortfall in capacity from 737 and A310 groundings and or maintenance work. The 77W will replace the 747s.
> 
> 
> 
> How many airlines have billions in capital sitting idle in their banks?
> 
> 
> 
> PIA was in a mess in 2005-2006. The problems facing PIA now are due to decisions made a decade ago in the 90s and 2000s.
> 
> The Fokker 27 which crashed on takeoff from LHE in 2006 was precipitated by poor engine maintenance.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody would buy the 747s.
> 
> There just isn't a market for them.
> 
> Why buy a high cycle 747-300 with a three man cockpit, 1980 generation engines, a history of poor maintenance etc when you could just go and pick a 747-400 up from Arizona with up-to-date engines, avionic and interiors for slightly more?



kindly post the links of all what u have just posted !!!!


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## imiakhtar

mehboobkz said:


> Why Arizona of all the places and not Seattle?
> before I come to other contents.



Arizona is extremely dry so it helps with aircraft storage by minimising corrosion.



khanboy007 said:


> kindly post the links of all what u have just posted !!!!



Aircraft market value and lease monthly rates taken from here:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5608606/

Laxintl, the regular poster of such info is an airline consultant having worked with Turkish and Virgin atlantic and as such he has access to the book values from appraisal firms here:

Publications - Aircraft Values Book - International Bureau of Aviation

AVITAS - The Leading Advisor to the Aviation Industry

Ascend Online Values | Engine & Aircraft Valuations | Ascend | Ascend

Since the information was posted there has not been any production increases/decreases for the A320 or any bankruptcies which means the values and lease rates will be largely unchanged.

The reasons for the induction of the A320 and 77W have been covered by the PIA master thread and there are links to PIA press releases as well as the tender, bidding and technical documents.

Again, the increasing use of lease in acquiring and operating aircraft is illustrated by the rise of the lease houses particularly GECAS and ILFC who between them have over 2500 aircraft and increasing.

Airlines just can not risk expanding precious capital on aircraft deposits with such a volatile airline industry:

GECAS - Fleet

http://www.ilfc.com/ILFC_factsheet.pdf

Also, if you're willing to trawl around the lessor websites, you will also find the book values and lease rates of aircraft in company documents.

The report into the PIA fokker crash can be found here:

http://www.caapakistan.com.pk/downl...-27 Reg AP-BAL on 10 JUL 06 (11 May 2012).pdf

Below is a link to atlas air, a well respected and extremely well run airline (incidentally founded by a pakistani). If you go through the investor slides and press releases, you will see how weak the cargo demand is and how they're struggling to make money even with new 747-8fs:

Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings


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## khanboy007

@imiakhtar do you think one aircraft crash signifies the fate of pia for that whole year, and if it (pia) was in a poor helpless situation then how did it go for the 777-200LR ??


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## mehboobkz

> Arizona is extremely dry so it helps with aircraft storage by minimising corrosion.




Lol LOl LOL

By yr standards, Airbus should open a branch there, where even Boeing does not have one.

Ireland is a nation where 9 out of 10 Aircraft leasing companies exist.

Arizona has a Aircraft graveyard, people dont go there to buy lease an aircraft.

Airlines take the delivery from Seattle Boeing plant, whether they buy or lease.

Lol talking about boneyard.


----------



## imiakhtar

khanboy007 said:


> @imiakhtar do you think one aircraft crash signifies the fate of pia for that whole year, and if it (pia) was in a poor helpless situation then how did it go for the 777-200LR ??



Yes it does.

Safety and aircraft purchasing rarely go hand in hand. In the 777 order case, PIA was paying with it's own money (albeit guaranteed by the US). Boeing doesn't give a toss if PIA buys their aircraft and tomorrow drives them into the side of a hill. 

Look at Lion air in Indonesia. They have one of the youngest 737 fleets in the world and a huge order book, and yet they're still on the EU blacklist. They could turn up in Toulouse tomorrow (and rumours suggest they will) and order a huge batch of Airbus aircraft and they will still be banned from EU skies. That is because there are ingrained safety deficiencies which have been identified by foreign audits.

In the run up to 2006 crash for PIA the warning signs had been there for the airline. PIA aircraft had been busting noise curfews at British airports as they were constantly late.

There were a number of emergency and priority landings by PIA 747s in the UK within a short period of time (some of which are on youtube).

There was an Airbus A300 which had a high speed RTO in DXB due to tyres which hadn't been re-tread properly. The damage to the aircraft and landing gear resulted in it being written off.

The fokker 27 crash was just the final straw when the British CAA decided to do an audit of PIA facilities and training and found severe shortcomings, ie the maintenance records of A310 aircraft were not complete. 

As such the CAA in the UK pressed EASA to blacklist the 747 and A310 aircraft (most of them) shortly after in 2007:

Europe lifts ban on Phuket, adds PIA to updated blacklist | Aeropolitics content from ATWOnline

BBC NEWS | Europe | EU bans Pakistan airline flights

Recently, their maintenance has come into question once again with DGAC and CAA delaying aircraft for safety checks.


----------



## imiakhtar

mehboobkz said:


> Lol LOl LOL
> 
> By yr standards, Airbus should open a branch there, where even Boeing does not have one.
> 
> Ireland is a nation where 9 out of 10 Aircraft leasing companies exist.
> 
> Arizona has a Aircraft graveyard, people dont go there to buy lease an aircraft.
> 
> Airlines take the delivery from Seattle Boeing plant, whether they buy or lease.
> 
> Lol talking about boneyard.



You're putting words into my mouth you silly person. Aircraft are stored there when they're not in use as it is dry and conducive to good storage. Of course boeing and airbus don't deliver from there. I never said they did. 

All I said was that there are plenty of 747-400s sitting in the desert in much better condition than PIA 747-300s and much lower operating costs. The fact that airlines are parking their 747s up and not converting them to cargo aircraft shows n

1) The weakness in the cargo market

2) The inability of the 747-200/300/400 to make money flying cargo

which renders khanboy's opinion that they should be utilised as freighters or leased out with no demand equally as silly.


----------



## mehboobkz

imiakhtar said:


> You're putting words into my mouth you silly person. Aircraft are stored there when they're not in use as it is dry and conducive to good storage. Of course boeing and airbus don't deliver from there. I never said they did.



That is a grave yard for aircrafts that are NOT sold from there, barring few spares for whatever reasons. Why would you bring this issue of Arizona is beyond me, knowing that PIA's planes wont end up there any soon.



> All I said was that there are plenty of 747-400s sitting in the desert in much better condition than PIA 747-300s and much lower operating costs. The fact that airlines are parking their 747s up and not converting them to cargo aircraft shows n



The planes in storage in Arkansas bone yard are there to be deconstructed or will be scraped. So whats yr moot point.

That was the thrust of my post.


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## razgriz19

PIA has one of the worst maintenance records. And now they're just getting worse and worse.
My cousin just came to Toronto and his aircraft had to land in Manchester because of landing gear problems...

There is one huge problem in the system. There are NOT enough and adequate training programs.
We get our technicians from the air force. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but there is nothing right with that either IF we dont train them properly and bring them up to the standard of 
CIVIL aviation.

In Canada, an aviantech from the military HAS to go through the schooling AGAIN before they can join the civil industry!


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## Sugarcane



Reactions: Like Like:
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## imiakhtar

mehboobkz said:


> That is a grave yard for aircrafts that are NOT sold from there, barring few spares for whatever reasons. Why would you bring this issue of Arizona is beyond me, knowing that PIA's planes wont end up there any soon.
> 
> 
> 
> The planes in storage in Arkansas bone yard are there to be deconstructed or will be scraped. So whats yr moot point.
> 
> That was the thrust of my post.



Incorrect.

Many of the 747-400s in the Boneyards are very much serviceable.

Currently, there are at least 11 747-400s, ex-Cathay, Singapore, Qantas, Korean and one British Airways which could be flown away in 48hrs. Furthermore, many of the aircraft, especially the Qantas birds have a low number of Flight hours and cycles on them.

That's why they are stored in an airworthy condition and not scrap.

To further the point, the most recent P-3s delivered to the Pakistan Navy were from the boneyard.


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## Argus Panoptes

More information on aircraft boneyards, if anyone is interested:

Field Guide To Aircraft Boneyards


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## Jango

mehboobkz said:


> The planes in storage in Arkansas bone yard are there to be deconstructed or will be scraped. So whats yr moot point.
> 
> That was the thrust of my post.



There are different categories.

Aircraft are stored there for scrapping, for use as spare parts source and for storage if the aircraft would be sold at a later date.

If they are well covered, chocks in place, engines covered, all covers are fitted tightly, it means the aircraft is for sale.


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## Nishan_101

UmarJustice said:


> PIA, in a bid to overcome delays in flight operations, will induct five aircraft in its fleet on dry lease by March and April this year.
> 
> According to official sources, around eight narrow body aircraft (A-320) are being inducted on dry lease in the fleet of the national carrier.
> 
> In the first phase, five aircraft will be included during the current year to overcome shortage of planes and improve reliability, punctuality and regularity of flights.
> 
> The sources said that PIA's fleet consists of 38 aircraft, out of which, only 29 were in operation.
> 
> Currently, 13 planes have been grounded for the maintenance checks and five aircraft will be operational by end of this month, he added.
> 
> Some aircraft have been permanently grounded keeping in view the structural/corrosion issues and high cost of recovery.
> 
> The sources further revealed that PIA suffered loss during last Hajj operation due to subsidized fare and high fuel cost. PIA had fixed Rs.72,000 fare for the Hajj operation against normal fare of Rs.108,000, he added.
> 
> Currently PIA was not operating flights for South Africa and Kenya due to limited market size in African market, lack of commercial viability and fleet constraints.
> 
> Five aircraft to be inducted in PIA | The Nation



The most easiest thing for them is to sell about 49% shares to any Middle Eastern Carrier that will make it profitable as well as will create more jobs in Pakistan....


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## mehboobkz

nuclearpak said:


> There are different categories.
> 
> Aircraft are stored there for scrapping, for use as spare parts source *and for storage if the aircraft would be sold at a later date*.
> 
> If they are well covered, chocks in place, engines covered, all covers are fitted tightly, *it means the aircraft is for sale*.



Airplane Graveyard - Arizona Military Airplane Graveyards



> Many people think the government sells flying airplanes to the general public, this is not true. Anything the government sells, which could cause potential injuries, like a life raft, pilot helmet, or a flying aircraft will be demilled before it leaves the base. Demilling which stands for de-militarize, includes slashing rafts with a razor knife, crushing helmets, or in the case of an airplane chopping the wings off, or cutting the fuselage into three pieces. Some of the aircraft stored at the Bone Yard are turned into remotely controlled drone aircraft like what was done with the F-106 drone program.


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## khanboy007

imiakhtar said:


> Yes it does.
> 
> Safety and aircraft purchasing rarely go hand in hand. In the 777 order case, PIA was paying with it's own money (albeit guaranteed by the US). Boeing doesn't give a toss if PIA buys their aircraft and tomorrow drives them into the side of a hill.
> 
> Look at Lion air in Indonesia. They have one of the youngest 737 fleets in the world and a huge order book, and yet they're still on the EU blacklist. They could turn up in Toulouse tomorrow (and rumours suggest they will) and order a huge batch of Airbus aircraft and they will still be banned from EU skies. That is because there are ingrained safety deficiencies which have been identified by foreign audits.
> 
> In the run up to 2006 crash for PIA the warning signs had been there for the airline. PIA aircraft had been busting noise curfews at British airports as they were constantly late.
> 
> There were a number of emergency and priority landings by PIA 747s in the UK within a short period of time (some of which are on youtube).
> 
> There was an Airbus A300 which had a high speed RTO in DXB due to tyres which hadn't been re-tread properly. The damage to the aircraft and landing gear resulted in it being written off.
> 
> The fokker 27 crash was just the final straw when the British CAA decided to do an audit of PIA facilities and training and found severe shortcomings, ie the maintenance records of A310 aircraft were not complete.
> 
> As such the CAA in the UK pressed EASA to blacklist the 747 and A310 aircraft (most of them) shortly after in 2007:
> 
> Europe lifts ban on Phuket, adds PIA to updated blacklist | Aeropolitics content from ATWOnline
> 
> BBC NEWS | Europe | EU bans Pakistan airline flights
> 
> Recently, their maintenance has come into question once again with DGAC and CAA delaying aircraft for safety checks.



you are right about the 2007 bit here a clip from 2007 , but i still wont believe that pia was in grave situations in 2005-2006 i would use your own quoted values *B777-200ER  $43.0  118.0M, $450-950,000* certainly LR would be much more expencive, *so how was it afforded ???*


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## Jango

mehboobkz said:


> Airplane Graveyard - Arizona Military Airplane Graveyards



I was referring to civilian aircraft.


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## imiakhtar

khanboy007 said:


> you are right about the 2007 bit here a clip from 2007 , but i still wont believe that pia was in grave situations in 2005-2006



Again, don't take my word for it. Read the Pakistan CAA report into the crash which identifies systemic deficiencies in aircraft maintenance and pilot training. PIA had to spend over $10 million on their maintenance facilities after the EU blacklist.



> i would use your own quoted values B777-200ER &#8211; $43.0 &#8211; 118.0M, $450-950,000 certainly LR would be much more expencive, so how was it afforded ???



Again, when I suggested you follow the Pakistan aviation master thread, you didn't follow my instructions as most of the details are contained therein.

In the initial 777 order, the Pakistan Govt paid for the 777s via a offshore vehicle they set up in the Cayman Islands. The money didn't come from PIA so buying new aircraft wasn't an issue as the Govt was writing the cheques.

Also, the values I used were current book values, ie a valuation range for aircraft currently in service.

The last 777-200ER delivered to an airline was HL8254 which was delivered to Asiana almost a year ago. The high end of that evaluation of $118 million most likely represents that frame. (Remember the -200LR is closer to the -300ER price due to it having the bigger engines)


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## razgriz19

khanboy007 said:


> you are right about the 2007 bit here a clip from 2007 , but i still wont believe that pia was in grave situations in 2005-2006 i would use your own quoted values *B777-200ER &#8211; $43.0 &#8211; 118.0M, $450-950,000* certainly LR would be much more expencive, *so how was it afforded ???*



jeez man numbers on internet are just numbers! they are just a list price.
Airlines get discounts all the time. 
PIA probably got a deal or discount when it became the launch customer for 777-200LR.
That aircraft was used quite a lot before it was hand over to PIA.
It was probably much cheaper than its listed price!


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## Jango

Private airline: Indus Air gets two planes &#8211; The Express Tribune

Boeing 737 perhaps?

Airlines in Pakistan need atleast 3 planes to start operations according to CAA rules.

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## imiakhtar

imiakhtar said:


> Look at Lion air in Indonesia.. They could turn up in Toulouse tomorrow (and rumours suggest they will) and order a huge batch of Airbus aircraft and they will still be banned from EU skies.



Wow. Looks like my sources were correct:

Lion Air orders 234 A320 Family aircraft*| Airbus News & Events


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## Jango

I have merged the PIA order thread with the Civil Aviation sticky.

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## khanboy007

Construction work at BBIA steps up | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia

*ISLAMABAD *- The ongoing construction work for the provision of various facilities in the terminal building of the new Benazir Bhutto International Airport (BBIA), some 30 km off southeast of the federal capital, *was stepped up on Sunday to make it operational by 2014. The work on signage, counters, seating, trolleys, furniture and resource centres in the passengers&#8217; terminal building was likely to be completed by the end of this year.* An official of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said on Sunday that *prequalification of contractors and firms financially and technically capable of supplying and installing the furniture, counters and signage was under process*. He said bids for work would be invited after completion of prequalification process. The official said that runway of the airport had already been completed while passengers terminal buildings, air traffic control tower and residential blocks were being completed at a very fast pace. New BBIA, located in Attock&#8217;s Fateh Jang area, some 30 km southwest of the federal capital,* is expected to be completed and operational by 2014*.
The project, after completion, would be the first Greenfield Airport of the country with state-of-the-art facilities for around 25 million domestic and international passengers per annum. According to the official, the new airport would replace the existing one. At present, the BBIA was handling some 18 airlines and most of the international commercial flights operated at morning time which caused rush and delays. He, however, expressed confidence that the new airport would spread over 3,600 acres and would not only serve the twin cities of Islamabad and Rawalpindi but also the adjoining provinces of Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. The estimated cost is around $300 million and the new airport facility would comprise a contemporary state-of-the-art passenger terminal building, control tower, runway in addition to a secondary runway, taxiways, apron and cargo complex.

ALHAMDULILLAH


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## imiakhtar

My Jeppesen charts arrived today. Here's the one for N Pak and Lahore FIR. You can see the intl entry points and high altitude airways.

Sadly, It seems Pakistan ATC doesn't have CPDLC.







I'll add Karachi FIR later

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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> My Jeppesen charts arrived today. Here's the one for N Pak and Lahore FIR. You can see the intl entry points and high altitude airways.
> 
> Sadly, It seems Pakistan ATC doesn't have CPDLC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll add Karachi FIR later



I couldn't spot Lahore in this chart...Sialkot, Islamabad, Peshawar, Srinagar....no Lahore.

BTW, couple this with flight radar 24, and you become an observing ATC!!!


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## imiakhtar

nuclearpak said:


> I couldn't spot Lahore in this chart...Sialkot, Islamabad, Peshawar, Srinagar....no Lahore.
> 
> BTW, couple this with flight radar 24, and you become an observing ATC!!!



Sorry, I missed it of whilst cropping.

A zoom in of Lahore here:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Karachi FIR here:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

And finally Karachi zoomed in a little:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting



nuclearpak said:


> BTW, couple this with flight radar 24, and you become an observing ATC!!!



I needed to update and buy some new charts for Europe as I'm going to be flying a cirrus around with a friend this summer. When I was doing my shopping for charts, I saw the Mid-East and Asia packages (normally in excess of $600) on special offer for a lot less so I bought them.

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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> Sorry, I missed it of whilst cropping.
> 
> A zoom in of Lahore here:
> 
> ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
> 
> Karachi FIR here:
> 
> ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
> 
> And finally Karachi zoomed in a little:
> 
> ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
> 
> 
> 
> I needed to update and buy some new charts for Europe as I'm going to be flying a cirrus around with a friend this summer. When I was doing my shopping for charts, I saw the Mid-East and Asia packages (normally in excess of $600) on special offer for a lot less so I bought them.



You a casual flyer?


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## Jango

BTW, do you know about waypoint OLPER...while approaching Muscat. Do you have any charts of Muscat or Dubai.

Are there any sites for this online, and free?


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## imiakhtar

nuclearpak said:


> You a casual flyer?



Yes sir. I have about 482hrs total time, mostly in cirrus aircraft. Fortunately for me, a friend's dad owns a 33% share in a cirrus 20. 
All I have to pay for is the fuel and insurance.


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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> Yes sir. I have about 482hrs total time, mostly in cirrus aircraft. Fortunately for me, a friend's dad owns a 33% share in a cirrus 20.
> All I have to pay for is the fuel and insurance.



So where do you fly mostly? 

Wanting to be a commercial pilot or anything...or is it only a hobby.


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## imiakhtar

nuclearpak said:


> So where do you fly mostly?
> 
> Wanting to be a commercial pilot or anything...or is it only a hobby.



I mostly fly around the UK and Northern France.

The Cirrus will be free for us to use this summer so we're planning a UK-France-Spain-France-Italy-Switzerland-Germany-France-UK trip.

If we've got time we plan on Austria too.

It's just a hobby, albeit an expensive one. I'm young and single at the moment so I ought to make the most of my time (and money!)


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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> I mostly fly around the UK and Northern France.
> 
> The Cirrus will be free for us to use this summer so we're planning a UK-France-Spain-France-Italy-Switzerland-Germany-France-UK trip.
> 
> If we've got time we plan on Austria too.
> 
> It's just a hobby, albeit an expensive one. I'm young and single at the moment so I ought to make the most of my time (and money!)



Hmmm...happy flying..


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## imiakhtar

nuclearpak said:


> BTW, do you know about waypoint OLPER...while approaching Muscat. Do you have any charts of Muscat or Dubai.
> 
> Are there any sites for this online, and free?



Sorry, I'm not familiar with that area. I couldn't find waypoint OLPER but I did find ALPOR between karachi and muscat. See here:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3118/42529157.jpg

Jeppesen charts are a subscription service. The better organised civil aviation authorities sometime have the their own charts available on-line. Most countries in Europe publish their charts free online, example see the UK here:

NATS | AIS - Home 

I only bought the Jeppesen charts as I prefer their layout.

I do have the approach plates for muscat and dubai. Which runway approach would you prefer for Dubai?

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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> Sorry, I'm not familiar with that area. I couldn't find waypoint OLPER but I did find ALPOR between karachi and muscat. See here:
> 
> http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3118/42529157.jpg
> 
> Jeppesen charts are a subscription service. The better organised civil aviation authorities sometime have the their own charts available on-line. Most countries in Europe publish their charts free online, example see the UK here:
> 
> NATS | AIS - Home
> 
> I only bought the Jeppesen charts as I prefer their layout.
> 
> I do have the approach plates for muscat and dubai. Which runway approach would you prefer for Dubai?



Yup...that's the one...ALPOR...I heard it over a frequency and thought of it as OLPER!

And approach for 30L...it would be much appreciated.


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## imiakhtar

nuclearpak said:


> Yup...that's the one...ALPOR...I heard it over a frequency and thought of it as OLPER!
> 
> And approach for 30L...it would be much appreciated.



http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1430/ils30l.jpg

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## Jango

imiakhtar said:


> http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1430/ils30l.jpg



It also has the glideslope and all...thanks a bunch!


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## Jango

http://www.piac.com.pk/cms/tenders/1930_RFP1301 A320 Simulator.pdf

PIA inviting tenders for leasing simulators for A320.


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## Edevelop

b.s. PIA is dying in debt.


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## Jango

cb4 said:


> b.s. PIA is dying in debt.



COrrection, PIA is not buying the simulators, if you read the link I posted, it says that companies are invited to finance the project and lease the simulators to PIA.


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## Jango

Flightradar coverage for Karachi also in place now. Covers almost the whole coastline of Pakistan and parts of Sindh, Punjab/parts of KPK also covered because of Islamabad radar.


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## khanboy007

Rs 70b loss: PIA cancels contract with spares firm

LAHORE - PIA management in a belated but welcome move cancelled contract with Transworld Aviation Fze - a Dubai-based spare distribution company with no credentials - after more than half of its fleet was grounded for lack of spares, leading to an estimated loss of over Rs70 billion, sources in the airlines said on Thursday.
As per sources, contract which effectively has contributed to above said losses was approved by former PIA MD Nadeem Yousafzai, when a letter dated September 24, 2011 was issued by Director Procurement & Logistics, Khalid Iftikhar addressed to Transworld Aviation, Chairman Abdullah Khamas Al Sulaimany, stating This is to acknowledge and confirm that PIAC have appointed Transworld Aviation exclusively with first right of approval for a period of 5 years for all services pertaining to normal supply of aviation spares and repair of consumer material, chemicals and life limited parts with aggregated values of not less than $40 million annually, whereas Transworld Aviation has provided credit facility of up to $700 million if required to support PIAs operation. This suicidal decision was given post dated approval by politically nominated Board of Directors, who during Ahmed Saeeds tenure had rubber stamped another such deal, which was also revoked subsequently.
During this contract costs escalated because of this self-created monopoly with most parts being bought on Aircraft On Ground (AOG) basis at escalated prices. It is worth mentioning here that when a plane is grounded due to technical reasons and its vendor is not at nearby destination to provide required spare, the same is purchased on far-high price on AOG basis. If airline wait for the arrival of spare from any distant destination, delay in supply of spare cost high to airline in the sense of parking fee of plane at any foreign airport, hotel providing to passengers and staff overtime etc.
Cash-starved PIA instead of embarking on aggressive cost cutting and revenue generation, in violation of PPRA rules had placed an advertisement on its website in 2011, instead of newspapers, and cancelled procurement of parts from a variety of over 150 manufacturer recommended vendors located on its international network, who offered it quick delivery on competitive rates with credit facility and instead appointed a single unknown vendor located in Dubai. PIA Board has twice grounded B747 fleet and then revived it each time wasting over $20 million on making them operational. Under controversial agreement with Transworld, PIAs own spare parts inventory valued at over $1 billion was handed over to them for sale which raised concerns of transparency. While the deal stands cancelled and PIA has reverted to original vendors.
The Third Quarter 2012 Financial report acknowledged a net loss of Rs22.42 billion during July to Sept 2012, while accumulated losses have hiked from Rs 42 billion in March 2008 to Rs 141.303 billion as of 30 Sept 2012 i.e net rise in losses of 336.4pc. Aviation analysts estimated that total accumulated losses as on December 31, 2012 are above Rs 158 billion. Scores of PIA flights were stranded at international airports for lack of spares involving stay of thousands of passengers in hotels. 
Revenue passenger kilometers decreased by 11.8pc due to drop in seat factor, flight cancellations etc. PIA current liabilities exceed its current assets by Rs 123.475 billion as on 30 Sept 2012, as compared to Rs 88.22 billion on 31 Dec 2011, qualifying it as technically insolvent this belated move by current management will only yield positive results if pilferages are cut down and more revenue generated once the grounded fleet becomes operational, along with bringing employee to aircraft ratio within saner limits.
A former senior PIA marketing executive demanded that those responsible should be handed over to NAB, instead of being on payrolls, doing active duty. The major culprits involved all have dual nationalities and kickbacks most likely deposited in foreign bank accounts. When contacted spokesman of PIA Tajwar said that airline has formed an accountability committee within department to look into such scams and Transparency International was also there. He said that if any irregularity was found in the contract both of the authorities could take-up the matter automatically.


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## Jango

What do you folks think about the A380 coming into Pakistan?

I personally think that the new Isl airport and Karachi will see a A380 in the near future and it will be Emirates which brings it. Now the reasons.

First of all Emirates envisions a fleet of only 380's and 777's, with the A350 coming in later. EK routes to Karachi are full all the time, with 5 flights a day (the highest number anywhere in the world, EK has 5 flights a day to Heathrow and a place in India, so 3 cities) coming into Karachi and the passenger load increasing, Emirates will be compelled to switch a slot to A380 when there 330's retire...


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> What do you folks think about the A380 coming into Pakistan?
> 
> I personally think that the new Isl airport and Karachi will see a A380 in the near future and it will be Emirates which brings it. Now the reasons.
> 
> First of all Emirates envisions a fleet of only 380's and 777's, with the A350 coming in later. EK routes to Karachi are full all the time, with 5 flights a day (the highest number anywhere in the world, EK has 5 flights a day to Heathrow and a place in India, so 3 cities) coming into Karachi and the passenger load increasing, Emirates will be compelled to switch a slot to A380 when there 330's retire...



It is possible, as long as the airports undergo upgrading of their facilities to meet the requirements for A380 traffic.



> 2.	Infrastructure requirements
> 
> The airside infrastructure requirements for aircraft with a wingspan up to 80 meters (Code F) are given by ICAO in Annex 14, Volume 1. These requirements are a sound basis for new airport design or future airport expansion but in most cases impractical for determining changes to existing infrastructure.
> While ICAO member states are encouraged to fully implement the new code F requirements for the development of their airports, it has also become clear that many states will have difficulties in complying with these specifications for the upgrade of their currently existing facilities. For this reason ICAO developed a circular for New Larger Aeroplane Operations at Existing Aerodromes. This circular identifies all issues which are of relevance to the operations of NLAs and proposes possible mitigation measures for accommodation of NLAs at those airports that are unable to comply with annex 14, code F provisions. The circular does not specify what is acceptable and what is not: the responsibility remains with the local authority. The State should decide on the suitability of lower requirements than those given by Annex 14, based on aeronautical studies. The principle is that safety requirements must be met, however efficiency of operations should also be considered, especially for airports which have a very low number of A380 movements and therefore whose infrastructure is unlikely to be code F (or AACG)-compliant.
> 
> The ICAO circular for New Larger Aeroplane Operations at Existing Aerodromes also gives guidance on how to conduct aeronautical studies . Several European Aviation authorities have, in close co-operation with their airport organizations and industry, initiated a working group (A380 Airport Compatibility Group, AACG) which performed several studies resulting in a number of recommendations for handling the A380 at existing airports. The Common Agreement Document (version 2.1, December 2002) of this working group contains all these recommendations.
> Together with ICAO Annex 14 the AACG recommendations form a basis for the infrastructure requirements at existing airports.
> 
> For many airports, especially those airports that in the near future will only see the A380 in case of diversion, even the AACG requirements may be hard to comply with. Deviations from these requirements are only sanctioned when aeronautical studies are performed. Even conducting aeronautical studies at these airports can be an excessive burden in the context of the low number of A380 movements. A better solution in most cases is to implement operational procedures to overcome the non compliances. In chapter 3 of this document, such possible operational procedures are given. The basic assumption for these procedures is that the airport complies with the ICAO code E requirements.
> 
> Reference documents:
> &#8226;	ICAO, Annex 14,
> Volume I, Aerodrome design and operations, fourth edition, July 2004.
> &#8226;	ICAO, Circular on New Larger Aeroplane Operations at Existing Aerodromes,
> Cir 305 &#8211; AN/177, June 2004
> &#8226;	Common Agreement Document of the A380 Airport Compatibility Group,
> Version 2.1, December 2002
> 3.1	Runways
> 
> Runway width
> Annex 14 prescribes a runway width of 60m for Code F aircraft. Many long-range traffic airports however, and certainly those that will be filed as an alternate, have runways which are expected to comply with ICAO Code E requirements, i.e. a width of 45m.
> Subject to the A380 being certified on 45m wide runways, the AACG recommendations state that a 45 meter wide runway can be used for Airbus A380 operations.
> 
> No specific alternative measures, operational procedures and operating restrictions are proposed for operations of an A380 on a 45 meters wide runway.
> 
> Runway strength
> The runway need only support the reduced operating weight at an alternate (airlines have quoted maximum MLW and two hours fuel) and the infrequent use would allow pavement concession action for the appropriate bearing strength.
> 
> Runway shoulders
> For destination airports, AACG recommendations state that a 45 meter wide runway with 7.5 meter shoulders on both sides can be used for Airbus A380 operations if the runway is also provided with additional &#8220;outer&#8221; shoulders. These outer shoulders should be prepared for jet blast protection, engine ingestion protection, and for supporting ground vehicles and their width should be at least 2x7.5m.
> The use of 2* 7.5 meter shoulders in Code E alternate airports instead of 2*15 meter wide shoulders (including the AACG &#8220;outer&#8221; shoulders) could therefore be an issue.
> 
> For an alternate airport, upgrading the total runway + shoulder width to 75m is mostly not viable. To find whether, and under what conditions, the A380 can be operated on code E runways and shoulders, the focus should be put on the intended use of the &#8220;outer&#8221; shoulder.
> 
> 1.	Jet blast and engine ingestion protection.
> The outboard engine of the A380 is located inside the shoulder of a code E runway (see picture below), so there is still some protection (4.3m margin) against any blast, erosion and A380 outer engine ingestion that could be generated by its thrust.
> 
> On landing, blast, erosion and A380 engine ingestion protection is not critical for the A380 on such a runway, as the outboard engines are not fitted with thrust reversers.
> 
> Take-offs however may require the blast and erosion protection capabilities of the outer shoulders, beyond the 4.3m margin offered by the inner shoulder. Absence of the &#8220;outer&#8221; shoulder could result in an ingestion risk for the A380 on takeoff, or FOD on the runway or inner shoulders which could be hazardous for the following movement.
> 
> 
> Use of a runway at a landing alternate is likely to happen on short notice. Specific preparation of the runway and runway shoulders is not necessarily possible within the available time frame. However the landing does not present a specific risk and therefore special procedures are not necessary (although runway inspection is advisable).
> In the take-off case more time is available and the departure of an A380 can be coordinated with other traffic and the need to inspect the runway,(if a 75m wide runway area is not already inspected on a regular basis). Runway inspection must be carried out immediately after take off to check that no loose objects have been blown onto the runway. In addition, a de-rated thrust may be used for takeoff at alternate airports, further reducing the engine hazard. It should be noted that the ingestion risk occurs in the very early part of the takeoff roll, below about 35 knots. A special procedure would be required for A380 operations on 45m runway without inner shoulders.


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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> It is possible, as long as the airports undergo upgrading of their facilities to meet the requirements for A380 traffic.



The new Islamabad airport is built keeping in mind the A380...the runways, taxiways, aprons etc.

I am not sure about the air bridges though, as EK has the upper deck reserved for first and business class. So a remote stand might be used along with stairway.

But the Islamabad airport does not have enough demand at the moment to warrant a A380, while Karachi does have enough passenger traffic so increase the aircraft size.


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> *The new Islamabad airport is built keeping in mind the A380...the runways, taxiways, aprons* etc.
> 
> I am not sure about the air bridges though, as EK has the upper deck reserved for first and business class. So a remote stand might be used along with stairway.
> 
> But the Islamabad airport does not have enough demand at the moment to warrant a A380, while Karachi does have enough passenger traffic so increase the aircraft size.



Here are the requirements for the A380:




A380 by ArgusPanoptes007, on Flickr

But I don't know the construction specifications for the new Islamabad airport.


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## A.Rafay

nuclearpak said:


> What do you folks think about the A380 coming into Pakistan?
> 
> I personally think that the new Isl airport and Karachi will see a A380 in the near future and it will be Emirates which brings it. Now the reasons.
> 
> First of all Emirates envisions a fleet of only 380's and 777's, with the A350 coming in later. EK routes to Karachi are full all the time, with 5 flights a day (the highest number anywhere in the world, EK has 5 flights a day to Heathrow and a place in India, so 3 cities) coming into Karachi and the passenger load increasing, Emirates will be compelled to switch a slot to A380 when there 330's retire...



The runway of karachi airport is short for A380! There is no place to make runway a little longer enough for the A380.


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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> Here are the requirements for the A380:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A380 by ArgusPanoptes007, on Flickr
> 
> But I don't know the construction specifications for the new Islamabad airport.



Yup...the new airport has a runway width+shoulders of about 75m I think. A quick measurement on GE shows 80 m.

The only issue with the A380 coming from a logistical perspective would be the ground handling. But I am sure DNATA will get the necessary equipment in and also the stairs.

From wikipedia:



> It would be equipped to handle all types of aircraft including the new generation aircraft such as the Airbus A-380
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Islamabad_International_Airport



After all, the world adjusted to the 747...slowly it will adjust to the 380. 

I am pretty optimistic that a EK A380 will come to Pakistan in the next 3-5 years. They have got to send those 90 jets somewhere!!!

I checked and the Islamabad airport is going to have a category F surface.


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> Yup...the new airport has a runway width+shoulders of about 75m I think. A quick measurement on GE shows 80 m.
> 
> The only issue with the A380 coming from a logistical perspective would be the ground handling. But I am sure DNATA will get the necessary equipment in and also the stairs.
> 
> From wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> After all, the world adjusted to the 747...slowly it will adjust to the 380.
> 
> I am pretty optimistic that a EK A380 will come to Pakistan in the next 3-5 years. They have got to send those 90 jets somewhere!!!
> 
> I checked and the Islamabad airport is going to have a category F surface.



Once the tarmac is laid out to the required specifications, adding ground handling equipment is relatively minor. I can agree with you that we will see A380 operation to the new airport in the next few years.


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## Edevelop

*AirBlue*







Flights Schedule:

Route: Islamabad to Rahim Yar Khan
Flight Number: PA-291
Days of Operation: Tuesday & Sunday
Departure from Islamabad: 8:00AM
Arrival in Rahim Yar Khan: 9:35AM

Route: Rahim Yar Khan to Karachi
Flight Number: PA-301
Days of Operation: Tuesday & Sunday
Departure from Rahim Yar Khan: 10:15AM
Arrival in Karachi: 11:35AM


Route: Karachi to Rahim Yar Khan
Flight Number: PA-300
Days of Operation: Monday & Wednesday
Departure from Karachi: 9:30AM
Arrival in Rahim Yar Khan: 10:45AM

Route: Rahim Yar Khan to Islamabad
Flight Number: PA-290
Days of Operation: Monday & Wednesday
Departure from Rahim Yar Khan: 11:30AM
Arrival in Islamabad: 1:00PM


----------



## Edevelop




----------



## Edevelop

> *PIA to launch Chicago and Glasgow from May 2013*
> 
> PIA to launch Chicago and Glasgow from May 2013.After successful launching of Kandhar.PIA is planning to launch Kashghar,Mashhad and Najaf.Management has plans to re-establish new destinations in SouthEast Asia ,particularly through Karachi.



I don't see increase of flights to North America due to loan default of Boeing 777. However, i'm very pleased to see their intentions of expanding in the neighbourhood i.e. China Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq


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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> It is possible, as long as the airports undergo upgrading of their facilities to meet the requirements for A380 traffic.





> It will be the first airport of Pakistan which can land and park Airbus A-380, most wide bodied aeroplane in the world. It has two runways, the main runway is category F runway, which is the highest category for runways. It has the ability to carry the largest and heaviest aircraft.



Benazir Bhutto Airport to open in June next year: Asif Yasin - thenews.com.pk

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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> Benazir Bhutto Airport to open in June next year: Asif Yasin - thenews.com.pk



That is good news.

However, I am not so sure about the facilities to deal with the large sudden rush of passengers to have flights leave on time. Humein line banaanee to aati nahi kuon keh hum issay apni bayizzati smajhtey hein.


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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> However, I am not so sure about the facilities to deal with the large sudden rush of passengers to have flights leave on time. Humein line banaanee to aati nahi kuon keh hum issay apni bayizzati smajhtey hein.



True that...but the new airport will hopefully have larger immigration halls, the current one is tooooo cramped with only 4-6 counters..if 2 or 3 flights come in at once, its pandemonium!

It's actually the ground handling I am curious about, air bridges or stairways.


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> True that...but the new airport will hopefully have larger immigration halls, the current one is tooooo cramped with only 4-6 counters..if 2 or 3 flights come in at once, its pandemonium!
> 
> It's actually the ground handling I am curious about, air bridges or stairways.



It is not the number of counters, but the type of people that create the pandemonium. Baggage handling will be another huge task to run smoothly.


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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> It is not the number of counters, but the type of people that create the pandemonium. Baggage handling will be another huge task to run smoothly.



One thing I have seen is that the airports around the world use fixed columns to create a queue. The columns are screwed into the ground and the rope then runs along with it. This way no one can cut lines and come from the side, and a order will be maintained.

Let's hope everything runs smoothly and the new airport is a new beginning for Pakistani civil aviation. Fingers crossed.


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> One thing I have seen is that the airports around the world use fixed columns to create a queue. The columns are screwed into the ground and *the rope then runs along with it*. This way no one can cut lines and come from the side, and a order will be maintained.
> 
> *Let's hope everything runs smoothly* and the new airport is a new beginning for Pakistani civil aviation. Fingers crossed.



Do you think a mere rope can stop desis from walking under or over it? How about the staff and their bosses themselves breaking the lines to give their friends and relatives priority?

Anyway, I join your hope that everything runs smoothly at the new airport, but I have my doubts. Aakhir log to wahi hon gey.

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## imiakhtar

A.Rafay said:


> The runway of karachi airport is short for A380! There is no place to make runway a little longer enough for the A380.



Since when does the A380 need a long runway?

It has better takeoff performance than the B777, B747 and A340. Emirates managed to get an A380 off BHX's 8500ft runway with an unrestricted load for a six hour BHX-DXB flight. The a380 would need less than 8000ft for a short hop across the gulf from Pak.

The A380's size does not make it a "dog". It has a very big wing which is very lightly loaded which gives it phenomenally low take-off and landing speeds in addition to excellent field and climb performance. 

On a standard ISA day at sea level, she requires circa 9800ft runway at MTOW with a rotation speed of 155 knots. Compare that to the A340, 747 and 777 which all require 10000ft + with speeds in excess of 165 knots.

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## Jango

The PAF VIP A310 is also visible in flightradar.

J-757 - Pakistan Air Force - Flightradar24

PM making a visit somewhere...?


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## Jango

Today a Emirates 777 declared emergency at Islamabad airport as the plane showed a low pressure warning in one of the wheels in the right main landing gear. Fire crews were put on standby beside the runway.

Luckily though, the warning turned out to be false, the Tyre pressure indicator system or TPIS malfunctioned on the tyre number 9 and gave a false reading to system for that tyre.

A low pressure tyre could lead to a tyre explosion or puncture and it could be dangerous.


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## Jango

The windscreen of the aircraft Pakistan Muslim League (PML-N) leader Nawaz Sharif was travelling in cracked mid-air on Friday, reported Express News.
According to initial details, the plane was at a height of around 9,000 feet and was headed towards Hasilpur from Quetta when the incident happened.
The plane was diverted towards Lahore where Nawaz was safely off-boarded. Nawaz went home from the Lahore airport and the party rally scheduled in Hasilpur was called off, said a PML-N spokesperson.
There were 12-15 other people on board the plane.

It was a princely jets business jet.


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## Jango

So what happened to the A320's that were coming in July?


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## Jango

Damaged runway: Peshawar airport closure disrupts international, domestic flights

KARACHI / PESHAWAR: 
Bacha Khan International Airport was temporarily shut for air traffic on Saturday after a ditch was discovered along a portion of the runway. The schedule of up to four international flights and one domestic flight was disrupted as a result.
According to airport officials, the ditch was detected when an Airblue flight was preparing for take-off. The runway was then closed and repair work was initiated, an official said.
&#8220;Since the airport is being used by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and Pakistan Air Force (PAF) jointly, a meeting of the base commander and airport authorities is under way,&#8221; the official said.
The airport closure disrupted the schedule of five flights, including four international flights.
CAA spokesperson Abid Qaimkhani told The Express Tribune that all inbound and outbound air traffic was temporarily suspended due to the ditch.
&#8220;Runway maintenance work is under way but as for now no specific time for resuming flight operations can be stated,&#8221; said Qaimkhani.
The fault disrupted operations of at least two flights of Pakistan International Airlines were delayed, said PIA spokesperson Muhammad Mashhood Tajwar. PIA flight PK-755 bound for Riyadh from Lahore via Peshawar at 6:50pm was delayed. Another Peshawar-bound flight from Karachi, PK-350, was also delayed.
Shaheen Air International&#8217;s Muscat-bound flight from Peshawar, NL-771, was also cancelled.
Tajwar, however, clarified that the national flag carrier was waiting for clearance and information provided by CAA and airport authorities.

Damaged runway: Peshawar airport closure disrupts international, domestic flights &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## Jango

PIA grounds it's B-737 fleet, flights to Kuwait and Bahrain stopped and also some flights to Dubai.


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## Jango

Rumored to be an airline with links to Zardari and his family.

Picture is at Karachi airport.

Courtesy: Historyofpia.com


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> *PIA grounds it's B-737 fleet*, flights to Kuwait and Bahrain stopped and also some flights to Dubai.



Why the grounding? Lack of spares or service checks?


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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> Why the grounding? Lack of spares or service checks?



At the moment, only one 737 is flying, others are not available due to both the reasons you mentioned, some are undergoing routine maintenance, some are used for cannibalization, some are grounded due to lack spares, and atleast one is grounded due to damage (the MLG problem at Muscat).


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> At the moment, only one 737 is flying, others are not available due to both the reasons you mentioned, some are undergoing routine maintenance, some are used for cannibalization, some are grounded due to lack spares, and atleast one is grounded due to damage (the MLG problem at Muscat).



What a sorry tale of mismanagement and corruption. This is no way to run an airline.


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## Edevelop

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) invites "sealed bids" from interested parties for acquisition of up to five (5) new narrow body aircraft on finance lease.


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## Jango

What's the matter with PIA? Every other month they give out a new tender and cancel the previous one.

This would severely hamper seller confidence.

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## Jango

PIA closes international operations from Faisalabad

FAISALABAD: The Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has cancelled three of its international flights from Faisalabad Airport, inviting severe public criticism. 

After closing down its final flight to Dubai, the Faisalabad Airport has become a deserted place, as the canteen contractor has also threatened to close down his business, while the employees of various agencies and companies affiliated with the airport have become increasingly insecure about their livelihood.

*No private airline of Pakistan is allowed to operate from Faisalabad Airport. online*

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Jango

ISLAMABAD: The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) on Tuesday ordered a number of key transfers on Tuesday, with Afsar Malik being appointed manager of the Jinnah International Airport and his predecessor Nasir Sheikh ordered to report at the authority&#8217;s head office, DawnNews quoted sources as saying.

Meanwhile, Ayaz Jadoon has been appointed the new manager of Islamabad&#8217;s Benazir Bhutto International Airport.

Ashfaq Ahmed, who was serving as manager of the Islamabad airport, has been appointed Multan airport&#8217;s project manager.

Moreover, Nadir Shafi Dar, the CAA&#8217;s chief commercial officer, has been assigned new responsibilities as director safety and quality assurance.

Furthermore, Tariq Gul, who was earlier serving as deputy manager of Islamabad airport, has been transferred to Multan.

Tahir Sikander has been appointed Islamabad airport&#8217;s new deputy manager.

Key transfers in CAA; Afsar Malik appointed Karachi airport manager - DAWN.COM


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## razgriz19

private Airlines in Pakistan needs aircraft like Q400 NextGen.
With the range of over 2500km, it can connect any city in Pakistan while providing extreme savings over jet liners.

Porter airline, based in Toronto, is a prime example. They only operate Q400. They're one of the most successful airlines of 
Canada.


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## Jango

Guess where?


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## Donatello

nuclearpak said:


> Guess where?



Sialkot Airport?


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## Jango

Donatello said:


> Sialkot Airport?



Yup...

At first, I thought that this Dubai! 

The ones at DXB are exactly like this, with a HSBC banner across the windows.

This is a first in Pak I believe, the ones at Karachi are like ovens and those at lahore aren't any good either.

Let's hope the new Isb airport will have airbridges similar to this. 

Keep in mind, Sialkot Airport is operated privately and not by CAA or government. That is why it is developing at great speed!


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## Edevelop

*No more free flights for directors, PIA board decides*

KARACHI: The newly-appointed board of directors of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) announced the decision to forgo its privilege of availing free-of-cost travel in its first meeting held on Thursday in Islamabad.

In the meeting that was also attended by Adviser on Aviation to the Prime Minister Shujaat Azeem on a special invitation the board said that the move will set a good precedence for others.

In the past, directors were allowed to take free seats on any domestic and international flight. This privilege of past directors had also been taken away.






&#8220;It was felt by the new board that PIA is in dire financial health and as such in its very first meeting it will send a right signal to all PIA employees that they also need to realise the grave financial health of PIA,&#8221; the airline said in a statement.

Azeem briefed the board on future plans for the airline and said that the national carrier will be inducting new generation aircraft on dry lease very soon.

Acting Chairman and CEO Aslam Khaliq said that the airline was going through a very difficult period, but insisted that its human resource is experienced in the aviation industry.

He said that there is an urgent need to restructure PIA in every sphere, particularly the customer service and flight punctuality.

&#8220;The board, on its part, will help in inducting new generation fuel-efficient narrow-body aircraft to the fleet, which are required for more than 80% of the routes.&#8221;

This will improve PIA&#8217;s image, bring back customers&#8217; confidence, enhance employee morale and increase occupancy levels.

Khaliq also announced that he will work for PIA without any emoluments.

The meeting was attended by Mian Muhammad Mansha, Arif Habib, Naseer NS Jafer, Malik Nazir Ahmed, Yousaf Waqar, Muhammad Ali Gardezi, Dr. Waqar Masood Khan, Sarfraz A Rehman and Managing Director PIA, Muhammad Junaid Yunus.

None of the directors are availing any other facility from the airline at the moment, an official confirmed. &#8220;They are all big names. They came to the meeting in their own cars,&#8221; he said.

No more free flights for directors, PIA board decides &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## Edevelop

*PIA to induct 10 new aircraft into fleet*

The Board of Directors of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has decided to induct 10 narrow body new generation aircraft on a priority basis.

According to a statement issued by the Public Relations Department of PIA, advisor to the Prime Minister on Aviation Shujaat Azeem and PIA&#8217;s newly constituted Board of Directors have critically analysed passenger traffic over the last five years and the projected figures from International Air Transport Association (IATA) and local aviation advisers, and have decided to induct the new generation aircraft urgently.

According to the management, the step will facilitate domestic flights that have been put into jeopardy for a very long time due to non-availability of narrow body aircraft, and will bring down fuel costs by 28 &#8211; 30%.

They will also help improve the flight schedule of the airline. PIA plans to increase the frequency of its profitable routes while loss making routes will be reviewed and would be closed if need arises.

Azeem has said that all efforts are being made for the revival of the Pakistan International Airlines and the biggest challenge is to make it a profitable airline.

He said that the all efforts were being made for the revival of the airline in order to put it on a path of recovery within the next six months on the instructions of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

The Economic Coordination Committee in the first phase has approved a bailout package of Rs7 billion for the National Flag Carrier last week.

The newly constituted PIA Board of Directors have decided not to take any perks and privileges from the airline such as pay or free travel for employees and family members, a statement said.

Chairperson PIA Aslam Khalique has also announced that he would not draw any salary as the chairperson.

Azeem has said that the process of change had started in PIA, and that corruption, mismanagement, politics and nepotism would be rooted out.

He said that together with the highly skilled Board of Directors and the experienced and dedicated workforce of the national carrier, PIA would once again achieve new heights and the results of positive change will be visible in the near future.

PIA to induct 10 new aircraft into fleet &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## Edevelop

*PIA to induct 10 new aircraft into fleet*

The Board of Directors of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has decided to induct 10 narrow body new generation aircraft on a priority basis.

According to a statement issued by the Public Relations Department of PIA, advisor to the Prime Minister on Aviation Shujaat Azeem and PIA&#8217;s newly constituted Board of Directors have critically analysed passenger traffic over the last five years and the projected figures from International Air Transport Association (IATA) and local aviation advisers, and have decided to induct the new generation aircraft urgently.

According to the management, the step will facilitate domestic flights that have been put into jeopardy for a very long time due to non-availability of narrow body aircraft, and will bring down fuel costs by 28 &#8211; 30%.

They will also help improve the flight schedule of the airline. PIA plans to increase the frequency of its profitable routes while loss making routes will be reviewed and would be closed if need arises.

Azeem has said that all efforts are being made for the revival of the Pakistan International Airlines and the biggest challenge is to make it a profitable airline.

He said that the all efforts were being made for the revival of the airline in order to put it on a path of recovery within the next six months on the instructions of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

The Economic Coordination Committee in the first phase has approved a bailout package of Rs7 billion for the National Flag Carrier last week.

The newly constituted PIA Board of Directors have decided not to take any perks and privileges from the airline such as pay or free travel for employees and family members, a statement said.

Chairperson PIA Aslam Khalique has also announced that he would not draw any salary as the chairperson.

Azeem has said that the process of change had started in PIA, and that corruption, mismanagement, politics and nepotism would be rooted out.

He said that together with the highly skilled Board of Directors and the experienced and dedicated workforce of the national carrier, PIA would once again achieve new heights and the results of positive change will be visible in the near future.

PIA to induct 10 new aircraft into fleet &#8211; The Express Tribune

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## Edevelop

*Govt to improve airports&#8217; infrastructure with Rs 100bn*

ISLAMABAD: The government is working on a major renovation plan worth Rs 100 billion to improve the infrastructure at the country&#8217;s airports by 2015.

According to the government&#8217;s vision on aviation, a copy of which was made available to Daily Times on Sunday, no major upgrade or induction of latest technology/equipment has taken place in the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) for the last 20-25 years. Its radars, communication and radio navigation equipment has become old, while its runways and passenger terminals at Quetta, Karachi, Lahore, Peshawar, Nawabshah and Faisalabad have deteriorated through wear and tear. All these need to be upgraded/replaced, it emphasised.

Pursuant to the directive of the prime minister on security environment, Adviser to the PM on Aviation Shujaat Azeem has directed CAA DG and the Airport Security Force (ASF) to initiate the process of acquiring latest scanners to be deployed at all major airports. Taking serious notice of threats to airports and the experiences at Peshawar and Kamra, Shujaat has ordered foolproof security at the airports and has written a personal letter to the minister of interior for beefing up surveillance at CAA airports and enhancing the security cover there and at mega projects.

While security is the number one priority, the ASF is still operating CAT-I scanning machines, while CAT-III scanning machines are the standard configurations at all major international airports to counter increasing security threats. This area has been overlooked for a considerable period of time. Efforts have been initiated on war footing, and CAA and ASF have been involved to ensure that the Pakistani airports are equipped with the latest technology. A working paper has been developed to immediately procure CAT-III scanners on urgent basis so that security is not compromised.

Another major security concern is congestion at the airports. At the Islamabad airport, which is a joint user airfield, the same had been neglected and all international carriers/flights have been placed in one block time at night, thus resulting in congestion for all agencies concerned, passengers as well as for the airport authorities. A meeting of all international carriers has been called on immediate basis to develop a staggered time frame to create a better working environment. The same will be made effective from August 2013.

The paper says that the National Aviation Policy 2013, a step long awaited by all the aviation stakeholders, from airlines, private operators, ground services, cargo & freight management companies to aircraft handling companies. The last such review was made in 2000 and since then the global aviation industry has seen a tremendous change after 9/11. The process of leasing and operating the aircraft at airports has changed considerably. To meet the international standards and to get the viewpoint of all stakeholders, letters have been dispatched for their suggestions and comments.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

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## Edevelop

*New International airport to be constructed at Mirpur *


A new International airport will be constructed at Mirpur with the financial assistance of International Investment companies.


A formal agreement was signed between the AJK Government and a group of Consortium of the Investment companies in Islamabad on Saturday.


Earlier addressing briefing on various Hydel power generation and tourism projects &#8218; the AJK prime Minister Chaudhary Abdul Majid said that there were ample opportunities for investment in Hydel Power generation&#8218; tourism and mineral sectors in Azad Kashmir.


He said that a number of international companies have assured to invest billions of dollars in these sectors.


He assured that AJK Government under its new investment policy will provide protection to the investors

New International airport to be constructed at Mirpur | NewsPakistan.PK

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## Last Hope

Last week, someone I know went to LAHORE from RIYADH, via PIA. Not only the flight was SEVEN HOURS late, but for the first hour (out of three and half), the Air Conditioner wasn't switched on and the cabin crew preferred to stay out of sight till it gets working. Later they said that the aircraft was coming direct from Karachi, it has faced some problems and was getting fixed for just this flight, afterwards would be fixed again.


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## Edevelop

*PIA airhostess arrested for smuggling phones*

ISLAMABAD: An airhostess of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) was arrested on Tuesday when she tried to smuggle in a large quantity of smart phones. According to media reports, airhostess Nusrat arrived in Islamabad on PIA flight PK 786 from London. During routine search customs officials recovered 48 smartphones from her luggage. The customs authorities took her into custody. Earlier, two other airhostesses of the national flag carrier were found involved in smuggling of drugs in laptop and aircraft toilet. online

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Jango

CAA gave a tender today for renovation and beautification of airports. Finally!

All the airports need to be revamped in terms of facilities and aesthetics.


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## Edevelop

*Bid to smuggle 3kg heroin foiled at Lahore airport*







A smuggling bid of heroin to Qatar was foiled at Lahore airport on Friday. According to details, a passenger named Masood was searched by the Anti Narcotics Force (ANF) at Allama Iqbal International Airport and heroin was recovered in his shoes. While searching the luggage, ANF officials seized shoes filled with heroin. During initial investigation, the suspect revealed that Civil Aviation&#8217;s General Service Attendant Nasir was also assisting him in the smuggling attempt. ANF handed both suspects to custom officials for further interrogation. 

Bid to smuggle 3kg heroin foiled at Lahore airport | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia


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## Edevelop

*Airblue launches services from Karachi to Jeddah*

airblue, Pakistan&#8217;s second-largest airline with around 20% of domestic market, commenced services on the 2,900-kilometre route from Karachi (KHI) to Jeddah (JED) on 9 July. A thrice-weekly schedule is offered on the route using A319s in competition with PIA (6 weekly flights), Saudia Airlines (6) and Shaheen Air (2). The new service comes in addition to the thrice-weekly flights to Jeddah from Lahore, which had been launched a day earlier.

airblue launches services from Karachi to Jeddah | anna.aero


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## Edevelop




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## Edevelop

*Pakistan's Shaheen Air eyes more A320s; tie-up with SE Asian LCC*

Shaheen Air International (NL, Karachi Int'l) is planning to add five more A320-200 aircraft to its present fleet of two by the end of this year with a further five expected during 2014/15. Thus far, the first five aircraft have been identified as two ex-Windjet (IV, Catania) A320s (c/n 542 and 877) along with three former Kingfisher Airlines (IT, Mumbai Int'l) A320s (c/n 3012, 3089 and 3270). Thereafter, the twelve A320s will be used to replace the airline's fleet of nine B737-400s. According to industry analysts familiar with the airline's operations, once the refleeting exercise is complete, a partnership with an established south-east Asian Low Cost Carrier will be sought, likely either AirAsia (AK, Kuala Lumpur Int'l), JetStar Airways (JQ, Melbourne Tullamarine) or Tiger Airways (TR, Singapore Changi), in order to gain connections via their respective hubs to the South East Asian & Australian markets. 

Pakistan's Shaheen Air eyes more A320s; tie-up with SE Asian LCC - ch-aviation.ch


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## Jango

Incident: PIA B773 near Moscow on Jul 21st 2013, engine shut down in flight

By Simon Hradecky, created Sunday, Jul 21st 2013 14:23Z, last updated Sunday, Jul 21st 2013 14:23Z

A PIA Pakistan International Airlines Boeing 777-300, registration AP-BHV performing flight PK-785 from Islamabad (Pakistan) to London Heathrow,EN (UK), was enroute at FL360 about 300nm southeast of Moscow (Russia) when the left hand engine (GE90) stalled and needed to be shut down. The aircraft drifted down to FL240 and diverted to Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport for a safe landing on runway 25R about 55 minutes later.

Flight PK-701 from Islamabad to Manchester,EN (UK) is going to make an unscheduled intermediate stop at Moscow's Sheremetevo Airport to pick up the passengers and take them to England.

Incident: PIA B773 near Moscow on Jul 21st 2013, engine shut down in flight


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## Jango

KARACHI: 
Air Indus has been issued the Airline Operating Certificate (AOC), clearing the way for the newest domestic carrier to start flights later this month, officials told The Express Tribune.
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) issued the AOC on Tuesday after weeks of delay, which saw the airline postpone its planned launch more than once despite bringing aircraft to Pakistan.
&#8220;It&#8217;s all done and now we are looking at July 25 for our first flight,&#8221; said Javed Akhter, who is looking after the airline&#8217;s airport services and matters related to the aviation regulator.
&#8220;Yes, the launch has been delayed by quite some time now but there is little we could do about. The approval process is long.&#8221;
Air Indus, which first surfaced two years ago, will operate the first flight between Karachi and Lahore. Under the licence, the airline has to operate on domestic routes for a year before it is allowed to carry passengers to international destinations.
Islamabad, Peshawar, Bahawalpur, Faisalabad, Multan and Quetta are other cities on its proposed network.
Industry people have been gossiping for weeks about the reasons behind the continuous delay since the airline brought three leased Boeing 737-300 aircraft three months ago.
&#8220;A lot of money has been wasted because the aircraft were parked for long,&#8221; said Akhter. &#8220;No one wants to do that as an idle aircraft means incurring cost on a daily basis. But things were not in our control,&#8221; he said without elaborating.
Air Indus, which is backed by Karakoram Motors as the sponsor, seems to have not yet decided on the exact business model but it is clear the owners are after maximum passengers and don&#8217;t want to experiment at this stage.
The airline has opened a large sales office in upscale DHA&#8217;s Zamzama area, hinting that it will continue to rely on a network of agents to sell the seats.
&#8220;It is too early for us to say if we will adopt any cost-cutting strategy since we have been fighting just to take off,&#8221; said Akhter.

Better late than never: Air Indus finally primed for take off &#8211; The Express Tribune

Air Indus ready for takeoff, 4 more days to go.


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## arushbhai

Isnt air indus owned by faryal talpur, sister of Zardari?


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## SHAMK9

arushbhai said:


> Isnt air indus owned by faryal talpur, sister of Zardari?


It's a rumor, no confirmation yet.


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## Edevelop

> *Air Indus Starts Local Pakistan Flights in Bid to Challenge PIA*
> 
> Air Indus Pvt., the first Pakistani airline to start operations in almost a decade, plans to begin services to the Middle East next year, increasing competition for the loss-making Pakistan International Airlines Corp.
> 
> The carrier, which started operations July 28 with a flight to Pakistan&#8217;s capital Islamabad from its Karachi base, will seek to fly to countries including the United Arab Emirates, Malaysia and Thailand after the mandatory one year of domestic flights, Salman Ghazali, senior marketing manager at Air Indus, said by phone yesterday. The airline will initially offer two daily services each to Lahore and Islamabad and one to Quetta and plans to reach seven destinations next month.
> 
> The new airline joins Shaheen Air International Ltd. and Airblue Ltd. in competing for passengers in a market once dominated by the flag carrier Pakistan International Airlines, known as PIA. PIA, which has posted eight consecutive annual losses, has seen departures drop by about 10,000 in the last two years amid delays in upgrading an aging fleet, according to its latest annual report.
> 
> &#8220;Competition is great,&#8221; Sajid Habib, former deputy director general of Pakistan&#8217;s Civil Aviation Authority, said by telephone. &#8220;Air Indus may get passengers and dent PIA&#8217;s operations if flights are on time.&#8221;
> 
> Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, who returned to power in May, aims to boost economic growth to 4.4 percent and keep inflation in single digits this fiscal year. The government reached agreement with the International Monetary Fund this month on a $5.3 billion loan to boost the nation&#8217;s depleted currency reserves and help stabilize its struggling economy.
> Boeing Fleet
> 
> Air Indus operates a fleet of two Boeing Co. 737-300 and one 737-301 aircraft, according to its website. The aircraft offers 148 economy class seats on each flight.
> 
> &#8220;The response was better than our expectation,&#8221; Ghazali said about the airline&#8217;s first flight. &#8220;We had 90 people in the 148-seat plane. Our commercial load was full, some guests could not make it. The way people are booking and travel agents are calling means there is a good response.&#8221;

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## Jango

https://www.facebook.com/Emirates?fref=ts

Emirates Airline coming to Sialkot...A-330 to operate on this route.


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## Edevelop

*Kashgar-Islamabad Direct Flight Opens*







Pakistan-based airlines Pakistan International Air and Rayyan Air in collaboration launched direct flights between Islamabad and the Chinese mainland city of Kashgar on Wednesday.

It is the first international route linking Kashgar, a southern city in west China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, and the capital of Pakistan.

The maiden flight, carrying 89 passengers, arrived at Kashgar International Airport at 12:25 p.m., according to Li Mei, an official with the airport.

The flight and its return will be offered once a week on Wednesdays. The flight time is one hour.

Kashgar International Airport is the second largest airport in Xinjiang. It opened in January 2006.

Kashgar-Islamabad Direct Flight Opens


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## Edevelop




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## Edevelop

nuclearpak said:


> https://www.facebook.com/Emirates?fref=ts
> 
> Emirates Airline coming to Sialkot...A-330 to operate on this route.



And Qatar Airways to Multan soon


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## Edevelop

*AirBlue is starting flights for Birmingham from Islamabad & Lahore.*


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## Edevelop

*PIA chairman, MD to be appointed in 45 days, SC informed *

ISLAMABAD - The Supreme Court was informed on Monday that the new chairman and managing director of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) would be appointed within 45 days in accordance with law.

The assurance was given by PIA's counsel to the two-member bench headed by Justice Tassaduq Hussain Jillani, which resumed hearing in a suo motu case regarding irregularities and illegalities in the national flag carrier.

During the course of proceedings, Raja Bashir, counsel for PIA, submitted before the court that advertisements seeking applications for the posts of chairman and MD had already been published in leading newspapers.

The advertisement for the slot of MD was even uploaded on the PIA's website, he said.

The counsel said as many as 22 applications had been received for the post of chairman and 300 for the MD.

He contended that the new chairman and the MD would take up the matter regarding political appointments in PIA.

While expressing dismay over the pathetic condition of the national flag carrier, the court said PIA ranked at the bottom of international airlines due to irregularities and illegalities. 

PIA chairman, MD to be appointed in 45 days, SC informed | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia


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## Imran Khan




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## Edevelop

*Emirates adds fifth route to Pakistan*





Emirates commenced operations on its fifth route to Pakistan on 5 November, when it launched services on the 2,000-kilometre route from Dubai (DXB) to Sialkot (SKT) in the north-east of the country. Four weekly flights are offered on the new route and operated using A330-200s in competition with flydubai’s thrice-weekly schedule. Emirates already serves four other points in Pakistan with non-stop services from Dubai to Karachi (35 weekly flights), Islamabad and Lahore (11 each) and Peshawar (five).

*In Sialkot*

*







*


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## Edevelop

*Gulf Air launches flights to Sialkot in Pakistan*

*



*

Manama, Dec. 12. (BNA) -- Gulf Air, Bahrain’s national carrier, announced today that it will start services to its fifth destination in Pakistan - Sialkot - on Tuesday 17th January 2014, with two flights per week.

Operations to Sialkot International Airport, located around 125km north of Lahore, will provide Gulf Air’s customers, travelling to the Export Triangle of Pakistan – the area encompassing Gujrat, Sialkot and Gujranwala where approximately 60% of Pakistan's SME's are located, with an alternative travel proposition.


Gulf Air’s Acting Chief Commercial Officer, Mr. Ahmed Janahi commented saying, "Pakistan is a key longstanding market for Gulf Air and is one of our most successful destinations. The recent 30% frequency increase in our flights to Pakistan, spread across our network in the country - Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore and Peshawar - has been positively received by our passengers, as reflected by strong bookings. Therefore, the decision was taken to further strengthen our operations to the country by the addition of a fifth destination – Sialkot. Gulf Air operates one of the largest networks in the region and as such presents a unique advantage for our Pakistani customers to reach the Middle East and North African markets with our seamless connection via Bahrain."

He continued, "The addition of Sialkot to Gulf Air’s network demonstrates the forward-looking emphasis of the airline as it continues to transition from a period of restructuring to one of development. The airline remains committed to proactively leveraging opportunities to strengthen its network through identifying niche opportunities."

Gulf Air will operate flights to Sialkot on Tuesdays and Fridays with an Airbus A320 aircraft that offers 16 Falcon Gold class seats and 120 in economy

Bahrain News Agency | Gulf Air launches flights to Sialkot in Pakistan


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## Edevelop

*PIA mull over starting flights to Australia*






KARACHI - Australian High Commissioner Peter Heyward called on Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) Managing Director Muhammad Junaid Younas at the head office on Wednesday and discussed the matters of mutual interest.

First Secretary, Australian High Commission, Ms Melisa, Business Development Manager, Tahir Mehmood, and PIA Deputy Managing Director Air Vice Marshal Qasim Masood Khan was also present on the occasion.

The Australian High Commissioner lauded the PIA MD for steps taken to increase the revenue and reduce the expenditures. Expressing interest in expanding the network of the airlines, he emphasised upon starting direct PIA flights to Australia and assured of his full cooperation.

During the meeting, the PIA MD briefed the visiting delegation about the expansion of flights network and addition of new aircrafts in the fleet. He said Australia bore great importance to the airlines and PIA was mulling over starting flights to Australia.

PIA mull over starting flights to Australia | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia

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## Edevelop

*Turkish Airlines operates its first flight to Lahore *

*



*

Already having the most comprehensive airline network, Turkish Airlines brings yet another destination in South Asia online. With existing services to both Karachi and Islamabad in Pakistan, Turkish Airlines adds Lahore as the third, stated a release.
Lahore is the second largest metropolitan area in Pakistan and is known as its cultural capital, with a rich tradition dating back hundreds of years.

Roundtrip flights between Istanbul and Lahore will operate 3 times per week on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays from Istanbul, and Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays from Lahore.

Travel Biz Monitor :: Turkish Airlines operates its first flight to Lahore


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## khanboy007

cb4 said:


> *PIA mull over starting flights to Australia*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KARACHI - Australian High Commissioner Peter Heyward called on Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) Managing Director Muhammad Junaid Younas at the head office on Wednesday and discussed the matters of mutual interest.
> 
> First Secretary, Australian High Commission, Ms Melisa, Business Development Manager, Tahir Mehmood, and PIA Deputy Managing Director Air Vice Marshal Qasim Masood Khan was also present on the occasion.
> 
> The Australian High Commissioner lauded the PIA MD for steps taken to increase the revenue and reduce the expenditures. Expressing interest in expanding the network of the airlines, he emphasised upon starting direct PIA flights to Australia and assured of his full cooperation.
> 
> During the meeting, the PIA MD briefed the visiting delegation about the expansion of flights network and addition of new aircrafts in the fleet. He said Australia bore great importance to the airlines and PIA was mulling over starting flights to Australia.
> 
> PIA mull over starting flights to Australia | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia



thats FANTASTIC 

No doubts, we have Pakistanis in Australia.Just to add on, PIA drastically needs to improve its quality of service to enter a competition and at least be close to a win situation.Qantas is already in with Emirates for the A380 terminal in Dubai.


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## fatman17

*PIA selects Lufthansa Technik for engine maintenance *
By:  Michael Gubisch London

11:13 5 Dec 2013 
Source:

Pakistan International Airlines has contracted Lufthansa Technik to support the engines powering its Airbus A310 and ATR 42 fleets.

The German MRO specialist has won a three-year deal covering the Pratt & Whitney Canada PW127 engines fitted to the Karachi-based carrier's six-strong ATR 42 turboprop fleet and a separate five-year deal spanning six A310s' Pratt & Whitney PW4000s.

The PW4000 contract covers repairs and overhauls, supply of spare engines, engineering services and logistics.

Meanwhile, a PW127 powerplant is already undergoing overhaul at LHT’s Aero Alzey regional engine shop near Frankfurt.

"This is the first long-term contract between Lufthansa Technik and PIA," says Ziad Al Hazmi, the maintenance provider’s general manager for the Middle East region.

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## khanboy007

*Flying higher: PIA aims to be country’s first to offer Wi-fi, phone service *

KARACHI: 
Passengers of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) will soon be able to use phone, check emails and watch latest movies on board as the air carrier will upgrade its in-flight entertainment system on long-haul flights.

Initially, the facilities – Wi-fi and phone service being introduced for the first time by a Pakistani carrier – will be offered on PIA’s nine Boeing 777s, which have been deployed on longer routes to Europe, US and Canada, said Managing Director Junaid Yunus.

“We are making every effort to improve the product,” he told The Express Tribune. “Seats and carpets in the planes are being replaced with new ones and special emphasis will be placed on cleanliness.”

Some of the specialised firms providing satellite communication services have already expressed their interest in working with PIA. But the national flag carrier will shortly issue a tender to meet the regulatory requirement.






Yunus said the airline on its own cannot manage the entertainment system effectively. “For example, the Wi-fi system is very expensive to replace or upgrade.”

PIA’s management has finally realised that it cannot woo passengers without offering them better service compared with other carriers, especially on long-haul flights.

The desire to upgrade in-flight entertainment service follows Yunus’ insistence that long-range B-777s will be used only for international flights to make the trips financially viable.

“The 15-hour flight to Toronto is tiring and passengers need to relax,” he said. “We are just trying to make sure that their journey is safe as well as comfortable.”

Foreign and domestic private airlines have slowly eaten into PIA’s passenger traffic. PIA’s share in international passenger traffic from Pakistan came down to 35% in 2012-13 from 43% in 2007-08.

While Pakistan has air services agreements with 45 countries, PIA flies to just a handful of them because of shortage of aircraft.

Still, it is widely believed in the industry that PIA benefits from one of the world’s most loyal brand following. “I am convinced that our point-to-point service will help us take our share back from other carriers,” Yunus said, referring to direct international flights without any stopovers.

PIA recently inducted four B-737s on wet lease to make sure it can spare bigger 777s for international destinations. The airline has also received government’s nod to induct narrow-body aircraft on dry lease next year.

According to Startrax, the leading air travel rating service provider, PIA is a three-star airline, placing it along with Air India, Kuwait Airways, Saudi Arabian Airlines and Southwest. The customer reviews offer some insight into the passenger experience.

“The meal was fantastic! Inflight entertainment screens were about to be switched on when all the passengers realised only 10 out of 200 screens were working! We had no entertainment for seven hours. Always bring an Ipad, Ipod or entertainment device with you,” wrote Huzayfah Alam, who travelled from London Heathrow to Islamabad on PIA’s B-777-200ER in July.

In almost every other review, passengers have complained about non-existent in-flight entertainment.


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## khanboy007

* A pilot who wasn’t happy with the onboard food menu reportedly delayed his commercial New York-bound flight for two and a half hours because he wanted sandwiches.*

Captain Noushad apparently asked the catering department at Pakistan’s Allama Iqbal airport (AIIAP) for his own tailored foodstuffs to take onboard.

When they said they could only provide items that had been pre-approved, they directed him towards a five-star hotel in the city which would have to courier his order over.

Having demanded the sandwiches for his Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) flight Pk-711, the 6.45am departure had to be revised to 9.15am instead.

The delay to the New York via Manchester flight is likely to have resulted in inconvenience for any passengers needing to change for connecting flights.

As reported by Pakistan’s The Nation newspaper, PIA management changed the menu on international and long-haul flights from November 25 onwards.

It downgraded lunch-time sandwiches to peanuts, crisps and biscuits in a cost-cutting exercise.

Source: PIA Captain Noushad: Pilot delays Pakistan-New York flight by 2.5hrs for a sandwich delivery | Metro News


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## khanboy007

The details say its a boeing 777 ?!?!?!?

posted on 21st December 2013

Photos: Boeing 777-340/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net


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## Jango

khanboy007 said:


> The details say its a boeing 777 ?!?!?!?
> 
> posted on 21st December 2013
> 
> Photos: Boeing 777-340/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net



This is AP-BHW ...it is being used as a spares source.

Remember the stranded B-777 at Moscow? The engines from BHW were put on that plane and since BHW had no engines or anything, it's other components such as radome and other cockpit instruments were being put in other planes.

Now since the PIA has bought the new engines and they have been finally cleared by customs, HW is being refitted with engines and other parts and will be able to fly in a few weeks.

Here are the engines being installed.

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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> This is AP-BHW ...it is being used as a spares source.
> 
> Remember the stranded B-777 at Moscow? The engines from BHW were put on that plane and since BHW had no engines or anything, it's other components such as radome and other cockpit instruments were being put in other planes.
> 
> Now since the PIA has bought the new engines and they have been finally cleared by customs, HW is being refitted with engines and other parts and will be able to fly in a few weeks.
> 
> Here are the engines being installed.





lanat aysy managers per sir


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## Jango

Imran Khan said:


> lanat aysy managers per sir



Shortage of money my friend.


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## Imran Khan

nuclearpak said:


> Shortage of money my friend.


 why shortage ? just because PALPA TALPA SHALPA MALPA type gangs not let run ? over loaded employees ? poor maintenance ? wrong or failed to decide ?heavy corruptions ? why shaheen or air blue have no shortages sir? PIA was milki cow but employees rather then drink milk cut it and eat meat .


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## khanboy007

nuclearpak said:


> This is AP-BHW ...it is being used as a spares source.
> 
> Remember the stranded B-777 at Moscow? The engines from BHW were put on that plane and since BHW had no engines or anything, it's other components such as radome and other cockpit instruments were being put in other planes.
> 
> Now since the PIA has bought the new engines and they have been finally cleared by customs, HW is being refitted with engines and other parts and will be able to fly in a few weeks.
> 
> Here are the engines being installed.



so sir, what you mean to say is that the engines (genuine working engines) from our 777's were sold to the russians....and other components too....because of its pitiful condition

and now since PIA bought the engines (again)...they are buying the components too....  I mean seriously ???? how is that supposed to be cost efficient ???


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## Imran Khan

khanboy007 said:


> so sir, what you mean to say is that the engines (genuine working engines) from our 777's were sold to the russians....and other components too....because of its pitiful condition
> 
> and now since PIA bought the engines (again)...they are buying the components too....  I mean seriously ???? how is that supposed to be cost efficient ???


nhi bhai another PIA 777 have engine failed over russia . in haramiyoon ne isky engine khol ker usy laga diye . us ke baad jo bhi part chayee hota new nhi lety is se nikal lker laga dety is trah ye working acha sa jahaaz kabaar baan gya . or awaam ko lakhoon dollars ka choona


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## khanboy007

Imran Khan said:


> nhi bhai another PIA 777 have engine failed over russia . in haramiyoon ne isky engine khol ker usy laga diye . us ke baad jo bhi part chayee hota new nhi lety is se nikal lker laga dety is trah ye working acha sa jahaaz kabaar baan gya . or awaam ko lakhoon dollars ka choona



so we lost a 777..........FCUK !!!!!!!!!!


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## Imran Khan

khanboy007 said:


> so we lost a 777..........FCUK !!!!!!!!!!


nope we didn't lost 777 . after media reported nawaz sharif order for engines release and now they are working on this 777 to make it operational . per ab bhi pata nhi shayed kisi or 777 se parts nikal ker isy laga ker chala deen or us ko hanger main khara ker deen its pakistan

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## khanboy007

Imran Khan said:


> nope we didn't lost 777 . after media reported nawaz sharif order for engines release and now they are working on this 777 to make it operational . per ab bhi pata nhi shayed kisi or 777 se parts nikal ker isy laga ker chala deen or us ko hanger main khara ker deen its pakistan




oh mannn..............thats sick.........thank God i came across this pic and came to know more of it......

Alhamdulillah.....kam az kam engines tau lag jaaeyn ge


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## Jango

khanboy007 said:


> so sir, what you mean to say is that the engines (genuine working engines) from our 777's were sold to the russians....and other components too....because of its pitiful condition
> 
> and now since PIA bought the engines (again)...they are buying the components too....  I mean seriously ???? how is that supposed to be cost efficient ???



Not at all.

Imran said right.

The engines from BHW were installed on BHV to make BHV opertional. Then BHW was used as a spares source.

When the finance ministry released funds, PIA bought new engines. Customs then held them at Karachi port for a week or so over some issue and when that was cleared, engines were fitted to BHW. The other components are also being installed.

The damaged engines of BHV are being repaired by Air France I think. Air France is witholding the engines over non-payment of dues.

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## imiakhtar

Imran Khan said:


> why shaheen or air blue have no shortages sir?



Shaheen and airblue are in private hands. As such, they don't have to tender when procuring stuff. 

PIA has to put tenders out for everything from toilet paper to new aircraft. Tenders take time and money to analyse.

Throw in the inter-departmental bureaucracy in Pakistan and it's a small miracle PIA manages to get anything done.


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## khanboy007

*PIA's newly Leased 737-800 on its way from ISB to KHI *

*Boeing 737-800 OK-TSC*

details from the video : Smart Wings 737-8FH lands at Runway 25L, Jinnah International Airport (KHI/OPKC), Karachi. Flight PK301 from Islamabad, Benazir Bhutto International Airport (ISB/OPRN)






-------------------------------------------------------------------

Photos: Boeing 737-8FH Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

taken by: Stéphane Mutzenberg


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## khanboy007

Those good old days when *we were the BEST *





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=651730148203184


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## SHAMK9

khanboy007 said:


> The details say its a boeing 777 ?!?!?!?
> 
> posted on 21st December 2013
> 
> Photos: Boeing 777-340/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net


Bravo Hotel Whiskey is flying again.





New PK logo

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## Manticore

*In dismal news for India’s aviation sector, United States' aviation regulator has downgraded India's safety ranking, bringing it below Pakistan, that will adversely affect flight operations to America. India's aviation safety rank goes down*

Atleast PIA has maintained its safety ranking


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## imiakhtar

Manticore said:


> *In dismal news for India’s aviation sector, United States' aviation regulator has downgraded India's safety ranking, bringing it below Pakistan, that will adversely affect flight operations to America. India's aviation safety rank goes down*
> 
> Atleast PIA has maintained its safety ranking



How is any of that relevant to the topic of this thread, ie what has state of civilian aviation on the other side of the border got to do with Pakistani affairs?

On topic, it appears that PIA management is very happy with the wet lease operation and has released a tender for short-term summer lease of additional aircraft:

http://www.piac.com.pk/cms/tenders/2548_Bidding Document for Wet Lease of Narrow Body Aircraft - January 2014.pdf


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## Edevelop



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## Edevelop

*Pakistan International Airlines to resume Iran, Iraq flights to facilitate Shia pilgrims*

* Pakistan's national flag carrier will resume its operations to Iraq and Iran from next month to facilitate Shia pilgrims, who have often been attacked by militants while travelling to these countries via road.*

Flights to Iraq will be re-launched after a hiatus of 30 years. Iran operations, stopped as flights on the route were not economically viable, would resume after a two-year break.

The Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) authorities have taken the decision in the wake of recent attacks on busses carrying Shia pilgrims in Mastaung district of Balochistan province.

Last year, over 200 minority community members were killed in Quetta in such sectarian attacks.Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif had directed the PIA to resume Iraq-Iran operation without any further delay to facilitate Shias to visit their holy places in those countries.

"Our initiative is part of the government's plan to facilitate Shia pilgrims who are exposed to danger while going to Iran on land route," PIA spokesman Mashhood Tajwar told I.

Tajwar said the PIA has selected Najaf destination in Iraq and Mashad in Iran to operate its flights. He further said the
PIA was acquiring 10 planes on eight-year dry lease this July.

"After the induction of the new planes we will not only resume its operation on some routes but also increase at least
40 flights on domestic and regional routes including India, Dhaka (Bangladesh), Nepal, Afghanistan," he said.

Pakistan International Airlines to resume Iran, Iraq flights to facilitate Shia pilgrims

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## Edevelop

*Pakistan International Airlines Awards Pratt & Whitney PW4000 Engine Management Program *

SINGAPORE, Feb. 13, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- SINGAPORE AIRSHOW -- Pratt & Whitney, a United Technologies Corp. company, announced today that it has signed an exclusive, three-year Engine Management Program (EMP) agreement with Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) to maintain the airline's fleet of 12 PW4152 installed engines.

"We are delighted that PIA selected Pratt & Whitney to maintain and monitor its fleet of PW4152 engines," said Matthew Bromberg, president, Pratt & Whitney Aftermarket. "Our maintenance programs are designed to help airlines operate efficiently and enable them to focus on their goals."

The Pratt & Whitney engines that are covered under this agreement power PIA's fleet of A310 aircraft.

PIA, Pakistan's national carrier, began operations in 1946. It now flies approximately six million passengers annually to 22 domestic and 30 international destinations in 21 countries across Asia, Europe and North America. PIA is known for its service and its impressive growth into a global carrier.

Pratt & Whitney is a world leader in the design, manufacture and service of aircraft engines, auxiliary and ground power units, and small turbojet propulsion products. United Technologies Corp., based in Hartford, Connecticut, is a diversified company providing high technology products and services to the building and aerospace industries. To learn more about UTC, visit UTC - Technology for the building and aerospace industries or follow the company on Twitter: @UTC.

This press release contains forward-looking statements concerning future business opportunities. Actual results may differ materially from those projected as a result of certain risks and uncertainties, including but not limited to changes in government procurement priorities and practices, budget plans and availability of funding, and in the number of aircraft to be built; challenges in the design, development, production and support of advanced technologies; as well as other risks and uncertainties, including but not limited to those detailed from time to time in the companies' Securities and Exchange Commission filings.

Pakistan International Airlines Awards Pratt & Whitney PW4000 Engine Management Program | Business - Press Releases | providencejournal.com | The Providence Journal

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## khanboy007

PIA opens bids for acquisition of 10 aircraft - DAWN.COM

KARACHI: The bids for acquisition of 10 narrow body aircraft for Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) were opened in the presence of the media on Friday.

Talking to the media before the bids opening, Chairman PIA Muhammad Ali Gardezi said that the bids were received and opened in presence of media persons for the first time in the history of PIA to keep the process transparent.

The bidding parties included M/s Qatar Aviation Lease Company and M/s KL Aero parts.

The aircraft offered included Airbus A320 aircraft and Boeing 737-800 aircraft. The bidders have committed delivery by last week of July 2014.

The bid offer of M/s. Qatar Aviation Lease Company included eight A320 Aircraft. Four aircraft with year of manufacturing as 2011 and four with year of manufacturing as 2012.

The second bid offer received was of M/s. KL Aero Parts for ten A320 and ten 737-800 aircraft with year of manufacturing of 2014.

The bids will be evaluated within three to four days and posted on PPRA website. After conducting the evaluation process within next 10 days, the recommendations will be forwarded to the PIA board of directors for approval followed by issuance of letter of intent to the selected bidder.

The financing of these aircraft will be done by PIA’s own resources and partially with the help of the government.

Chairman PIA said that the aircraft acquisition was approved by ECC and PIA board of directors.

He said that as part of revival plan, Pakistan International Airlines is acquiring the latest model fuel efficient aircraft in line with the vision and guidance of Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on Aviation, Shujaat Azeem.

With the induction of fuel efficient narrow body new generation aircraft, PIA will be in a better position to improve its sales and provide better service to its customers. The airline is also emphasising on cost reduction.

PIA Managing Director Muhammad Juniad Yunus, Director Corporate Planning PIA Shahnawaz Rehman, Director Engineering Saminuddin Naqvi, Director Flight Operations Captain Qasim Hayat, PIA Board member Aslam Khalique and other PIA officials were present during the opening of the bids. —APP


--------------------------------------------------------------------

so we are in for A320's and B737's (Alhamdulillah its not the dreamliner, as its facing many issues), this is actually good..

they are *selling *the *747-300's by 2014* (this year) which is a *jumbo*, why are they not replacing it with the A380  (source: Pakistan International Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )


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## razgriz19

khanboy007 said:


> PIA opens bids for acquisition of 10 aircraft - DAWN.COM
> 
> KARACHI: The bids for acquisition of 10 narrow body aircraft for Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) were opened in the presence of the media on Friday.
> 
> Talking to the media before the bids opening, Chairman PIA Muhammad Ali Gardezi said that the bids were received and opened in presence of media persons for the first time in the history of PIA to keep the process transparent.
> 
> The bidding parties included M/s Qatar Aviation Lease Company and M/s KL Aero parts.
> 
> The aircraft offered included Airbus A320 aircraft and Boeing 737-800 aircraft. The bidders have committed delivery by last week of July 2014.
> 
> The bid offer of M/s. Qatar Aviation Lease Company included eight A320 Aircraft. Four aircraft with year of manufacturing as 2011 and four with year of manufacturing as 2012.
> 
> The second bid offer received was of M/s. KL Aero Parts for ten A320 and ten 737-800 aircraft with year of manufacturing of 2014.
> 
> The bids will be evaluated within three to four days and posted on PPRA website. After conducting the evaluation process within next 10 days, the recommendations will be forwarded to the PIA board of directors for approval followed by issuance of letter of intent to the selected bidder.
> 
> The financing of these aircraft will be done by PIA’s own resources and partially with the help of the government.
> 
> Chairman PIA said that the aircraft acquisition was approved by ECC and PIA board of directors.
> 
> He said that as part of revival plan, Pakistan International Airlines is acquiring the latest model fuel efficient aircraft in line with the vision and guidance of Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on Aviation, Shujaat Azeem.
> 
> With the induction of fuel efficient narrow body new generation aircraft, PIA will be in a better position to improve its sales and provide better service to its customers. The airline is also emphasising on cost reduction.
> 
> PIA Managing Director Muhammad Juniad Yunus, Director Corporate Planning PIA Shahnawaz Rehman, Director Engineering Saminuddin Naqvi, Director Flight Operations Captain Qasim Hayat, PIA Board member Aslam Khalique and other PIA officials were present during the opening of the bids. —APP
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> so we are in for A320's and B737's (Alhamdulillah its not the dreamliner, as its facing many issues), this is actually good..
> 
> they are *selling *the *747-300's by 2014* (this year) which is a *jumbo*, why are they not replacing it with the A380  (source: Pakistan International Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )



this has been discussed to death before, PIA doesn't require an A380. All European and North American flights are covered with 777, which we will get more soon.

And hopefully they either go for A320 OR 737, NOT BOTH!


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## khanboy007

*Pakistan’s national carrier adds 4 flights between Sharjah, Pak cities*
By Jamil Khan March 19, 2014

HARJAH: Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), Pakistan’s national carrier has announced the launch of new flights between Sharjah and four different cities of Pakistan from March 30.

Addressing a community gathering at a function, Syed Ishaq Hussain, regional manager, PIA, said the Pakistani community in Sharjah as well as in the other Northern Emirates would now benefit from the launch of the four new flights to and from Sharjah which will also help the national carrier to retain its status as one of the nation’s major airlines.

“PIA is on the way to revamp and expand its operations with the purchase and lease of a number of new aircraft. The UAE is one of those countries having a large Pakistani population which prefer to use their country’s national carrier to travel to Pakistan,” he said.

The airline has been already operating three flights from Sharjah to Turbat, Balochistan, and from March 30, four new destinations Karachi, Islamabad, Peshawar and Multan will be added to benefit the Pakistani community residing in Sharjah and other Northern Emirates.

“Besides these four new flights, 14 flights presently operating from the Dubai International Airport will be shifted to Sharjah from May 1, as the authorities have announced the closure of a major portion of the airport’s runway for repairs for a couple of months.

“A total of 21 flights will be operating from the Sharjah airport from May 1 and we are confident that the local travel agents will extend their full support as they always have in the past,” he said.

Hussain also said that the Dubai government had asked them to shift their operations to Jebel Ali Airport, a move which would not work to the community’s benefit as most Pakistanis reside in Sharjah and other Northern Emirates.

“To offset this problem, we have decided to shift our 14 major flights from May 1 to Sharjah and benefit the community residing in the Northern Emirates,” he said.

In answer to a question, Hussain assured that they would announce the introduction of new services, including permission to carry extra baggage on payment of Dhs100.

Zafar Imam, Managing Director, Sharjah National Travel & Tourist Agency (Sntta), assured that the travel agents in Sharjah would benefit from the launch of PIA’s new flights from the Emirates.

The function was also attended by Javed Jalil Khattak, Consul General of Pakistan in Dubai and Northern Emirates, office bearers of Pakistan Association Dubai (PAD), community members and a number of travel agents.

“PIA is our own airline and we are happy that four new flights are going to start from Sharjah. The community should support this initiative and use the national carrier which has rich experience as well as great staff,” Khattak added.

gulftoday.ae | Pakistan’s national carrier adds 4 flights between Sharjah, Pak cities


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## razgriz19

I really hope they get the 320s. 737-800er are pain in the ***. All the mechanics complain about it.
320 is much smarter than the Boeing, a little more safer as well because of fly-by-wire.

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## SHAMK9

razgriz19 said:


> I really hope they get the 320s. 737-800er are pain in the ***. All the mechanics complain about it.
> 320 is much smarter than the Boeing, a little more safer as well because of fly-by-wire.


First two A320's would be delivered in couple of days.

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## Edevelop

*PIA set to acquire eight planes*

LAHORE: The PIA is all set to enter into an agreement with the Qatar Aircraft Leasing Company for acquiring eight 180-seater planes for eight-year dry lease.

"The company will provide A-320 aircraft this year (July-December) and the national flag carrier will pay $1.6 million monthly installment to it," PIA spokesman Mashhood Tajwar told Dawn on Tuesday.

He said the agreement between the PIA and the Qatar Aircraft Leasing Company would be inked in a few days. He said acquisition of fuel-efficient aircraft was part of the PIA revival plan.

"The planes are two to three years old and will be operated on domestic and international routes. After their induction, the PIA will be able to restore some of its routes as well," Tajwar said.


PIA set to acquire eight planes - DAWN.COM


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## khanboy007

razgriz19 said:


> I really hope they get the 320s. 737-800er are pain in the ***. All the mechanics complain about it.
> 320 is much smarter than the Boeing, a little more safer as well because of fly-by-wire.



we have already grounded a few 777's and 747's perhaps there are brought in to maintain the passenger equilibrium 

earlier on I posted a thread on it as well you can read the full story there 

PIA grounds five planes for lack of spare parts


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## fatman17

*When Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) began its operation in 1955 by taking over Orient Airlines with 13 airplanes, nobody could have foreseen a successful future for the national flag carrier. From such humble beginnings, PIA became one of the most sought-after airlines in the world within years. A few months after it started, PIA flew its first international flight to London via Cairo and Rome and when (then) Air Commodore Nur Khan took charge of the airline in 1959, the sky literally was the limit. With historic firsts and milestones to its credit, such as being the first Asian airline to acquire a jet aircraft, a Boeing 707, opening new routes and providing top customer experience, PIA was truly a great airline to fly with.*

This is a clichéd, but necessary, preamble to every story attempting to investigate what malaise has afflicted the airline — once the pride of the nation but now, known more as a money-bleeding, scorn-inducing white elephant, apparently destined to fade out from the skies.

The latest data of the airline’s financial status is anything but satisfactory. Its annual report for the year 2012 shows it to be in the red by 33 billion rupees (this loss was 26 billion rupees in 2011). During the first nine months of 2013, it incurred losses to the tune of 31.94 billion rupees. With only 25 serviceable planes out of a fleet of 34, PIA perhaps has the highest employee per plane ratio — standing at a staggering 780 employees per plane. Compared to this, Emirates, with a fleet of 212 aircrafts, has employee-plane ratio of 220 to one.

For Turkish Airlines, another important regional carrier with 236 planes, it is far lower — at 81 employees per plane. Throw in the liabilities ledger and the situation looks even worse: PIA’s current liabilities stand at 192 billion rupees, according to the airline’s third quarterly report for 2013.




A Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) Boeing 747-300 passenger plane makes its final approach for landing at the airport in Islamabad. — Photo by AFP
To understand the dismal state of affairs at PIA, some clues may be found in what was going on at the organisation at the turn of the century. Among other things, the introduction of an open sky policy by the government in the early 2000s could easily be seen as the beginning of a process that contributed significantly to the national carrier's fall from greatness, according to Chaudhry Ahmed Saeed, a former PIA chairman. This policy ended PIA's monopoly over the national skies and allowed Gulf-based airlines to invade the local market, he says. They took away PIA's market share and revenue, he adds.

The irony is that PIA was earning a profit in the first few years – from 2002 to 2004 – after the introduction of the open sky policy. Saeed was its chairman at the time. He could have done a few other things right in order to run PIA as a profitable enterprise. Insiders say what helped Saeed the most was the unstinting support he received from General (retd) Pervez Musharraf, who was ruling the country then. The Musharraf government suspended the workers’ union in PIA, pumped 20 billion rupees into it and approved plans to purchase nine Boeing 777 jets and six Airbus A310 planes.

After his departure in April 2005, the airline’s performance nosedived once again, resulting in back-to-back losses in subsequent years. It was also soon after he left PIA that one of its Fokker planes crashed in Multan, killing all 45 on board. This led to a ban on all Fokker flights.

Further misery arrived in the shape of a ban imposed by the European Union in June 2006 on PIA’s Airbus fleet. The planes were barred from operating on European routes for failing to meet necessary safety criteria. The ban was lifted in November, 2007, but the damage had already been done. The annual report that came out a month later showed stark numbers: PIA’s annual losses had swelled to 13 billion rupees, a jump of 188 per cent in just two years after Saeed’s departure.

After winning the general elections in 2008, the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) decided to bring the PIA’s house in order. The PPP government, for the first time in PIA’s history, chose a serving pilot, Captain Aijaz Haroon, as the managing director of the corporation. Haroon’s appointment, which initially raised eyebrows, considering his close ties with the then PPP co-chairperson Asif Ali Zardari, became the subject of more controversy when the year-end numbers were compiled. The airline’s losses ballooned to 39.73 billion rupees at the end of 2008 — its worst performance ever.

Haroon, however, says the reasons behind such drastic increase in the losses were beyond his control. “Nobody could do anything about the rise in fuel price or the depreciation of the rupee, both of which happened simultaneously in 2008, causing an exponential increase in PIA’s losses,” he tells the Herald.
Numbers support his argument. In 2007, fuel and oil cost PIA 30.32 billion rupees, indeed showing a decrease from the year before. Due to the global upheaval in oil prices, the average per barrel oil price increased from 72 rupees in 2007 to 97 rupees in 2008; this resulted in PIA spending 45.84 billion rupees on fuel and oil, a jump by 51 per cent. Furthermore, as Haroon points out, the value of the Pakistani rupee depreciated considerably in the same period – from 60.82 rupees for one US dollar to 70.80 rupees per US dollar – necessitating more money to service debts in foreign currencies.

Haroon, however, was able to pull back losses considerably within a couple of years. The annual report for 2010 shows PIA making an annual operating profit of 720 million rupees, a first in five years. The airline, though, was still running in loss due to the money it required for debt-servicing and other non-operating costs.




— Designed by Alia Chughtai
Soon, his success was drowned in the din of another controversy. A route sharing deal that Haroon proposed with Turkish Airlines, proved to be his Waterloo. He had already riled members of the powerful Pakistan Airlines Pilot Association (Palpa) on many occasions, for example, with his strict instructions against delaying flights. As one senior PIA pilot, the captain of a Boeing 777, explains, “Aijaz Haroon was a smart and shrewd operator but lacked diplomatic skills.” The pilot further adds that Haroon was “proactive but unpopular because he overdid a few things” in his eagerness to put the airline back on track.

As soon as news of his negotiations with his Turkish counterparts became known, Palpa started a four-day-long go-slow in January, 2011, claiming that the route sharing agreement was akin to route selling. “We couldn’t afford to have PIA’s traditional routes shut down due to one man’s whims,” says a Palpa member, who actively participated in the protest.

The strike led to Haroon’s resignation. The government, then, appointed Captain Nadeem Yousufzai, another pilot, as the new managing director. He lasted only a year, leaving behind a trail of controversial deals, among them a contract for the supply of spare parts for 700 million dollars to a single vendor, Transworld Aviation. Many in PIA say that the money involved was far higher than the airline’s requirements.

Mashood Tajwar, the PIA spokesperson, refuses to comment on the merits or demerits of the contract, saying the “matter is subjudice” — a case is being heard about it in a court of law. “As of now, however, there is no deal for spare parts with any third-party vendors. We only have deals with original equipment manufacturers,” he tells the Herald.

Since October, 2012, another serving pilot, Captain Junaid Yunus, has taken over as managing director. The airline, meanwhile, has continued to be a gigantic burden on the national exchequer. In the year 2012, it posted a loss of 33 billion rupees and its current liabilities stood at 166 billion rupees at the end of that year.

The third quarterly report for 2013, showing updated data for the first nine months of the previous year, is even gloomier: the losses stand at 31.5 billion rupees and liabilities at 192 billion rupees.

Many critics of the airline say it cannot be profitable without shedding a few thousand staff members. Though there has been a ban on new hiring for the last two years, the total PIA staff stands at approximately 19,500 (out of this, 3,000 are contractual and daily-wage staff who do not receive the perks and privileges enjoyed by the regular staff).

Paying salaries and providing other perks to such a huge staff is a burden that the airline, with its depleting fleet and decreasing earnings, cannot pay without incurring further losses and liabilities. In the face of such disconcerting data, the PIA management betrays a sense of false bravado when asked about the prospects of the airline. Tajwar, for instance, emphasises that the airline has begun to turn the corner. “Since the formation of the Aviation Division (a separate administrative department in the federal government), the PIA management is working closely with the government in order to revive the airline,” he says.

When the Pakistan Muslim League–Nawaz government took over in May, 2013, one of the first the steps it took was to create an Aviation Division to look after PIA, the Civil Aviation Association and the Airport Security Force, all under the defence ministry until then.

As proof of imminent change in the organisation’s fortunes, Tajwar points to some additional planes that have been inducted since the middle of the last year. “We advertised for the wet lease of four airplanes in August, 2013, and since their delivery last November, the company has been able to produce positive results,” he says. “We have improved our schedule integrity (operating flights on time) to 97 per cent and our seat factor (seat occupancy) is now at 76 per cent.” Yunus, too, is happy with the results. The airline has earned 9.5 billion rupees in the first month of 2014 alone, he says.

In January this year, the airline released an advertisement inviting bids for eight narrow body aircraft, also on wet lease. One month later, more bids were invited for 10 narrow body planes, four wide body planes and four ATR Turboprops on dry lease. One PIA official, in a wave of exuberance, claims to the Herald that the airline will easily register a profit at the end of 2014 if the planes being leased are delivered as per schedule. The management insists that it will resume flights on all suspended routes as well as increase the frequency of flights on profitable routes, once fleet targets are met.

Aviation experts and PIA insiders are unanimous that, in order to drag the airline out of the doldrums, the first and foremost requirement is to induct a new generation of fuel efficient, modern aircraft. But the problem here lies with the lease deals that the PIA is embarking on.

A ‘wet lease’ is an agreement that takes place between one airline (which provides aircraft, crew, management and insurance) and another (which offers routes to fly on). Such a lease lasts not more than two to four months and the money involved is calculated on the basis of flying hours. Such rates may vary between 2,500 US dollars to 3,000 US dollars per flying hour. A ‘dry lease’, on the other hand involves leasing agencies which lease aircraft to the airline. The cost per plane, depending on the type and age of the plane, can be around two million dollars a year. A dry lease deal usually lasts five to six years.




— Courtesy of Aroosh Naqvi
While details about the duration of the wet lease deals being offered by PIA are not available, Tajwar believes these will greatly help the airline produce positive results in the short term. “At 56 per cent of all our expenses, fuel expense eats the largest chunk of our revenue. If we get newer aircrafts which are far more economical in terms of fuel usage, this can help us bring down our fuel expense by six to eight per cent,” he says. Wet-leased planes will also help engineering expenses drop from 12 per cent to eight per cent, he adds.

One serving PIA pilot with over 30 years of experience, however, does not see wet lease as a good solution. “Wet lease is adopted by those airlines which don’t have any system or structure,” he says. Why did PIA get planes on such a lease when it has both, he asks.

But Tajwar defends these deals. “Airlines the world over now rely on leasing planes instead of buying them,” he says, “This allows them to recover money quickly and, once the lease is over, they can always get a fresh batch of aircraft on a new lease.” While most of these deals are yet to take effect, there are news reports on an almost daily basis about the privatisation of PIA. It was in September, 2013 that the government decided in principle to partially privatise the national carrier, selling 26 per cent of its shares, and to privatise its management.

The airline management, on the other hand, continues to deny the news. “There will be no privatisation, only restructuring,” says Tajwar. When the Herald contacted Special Assistant to the Prime Minister for Aviation Shujaat Azeem, to learn his position on the subject of PIA’s privatisation, his staff officer Sher Ali Khan responded by emphasising that there would be no privatisation. “The company right now needs acquisition of new generation, fuel efficient aircraft. We don’t have any plans to privatise it or lay off any employee,” Khan said.

New planes, however, cannot resolve PIA’s management problems. The airline is a top-heavy organisation, with over 11 directors, 40 general managers, and over 300 deputy general managers, all of whom cost huge amounts of money in their salaries and perks and privileges, making it a difficult task to justify why the PIA should continue getting bailout packages at the taxpayers’ expense.

Last year in September, Muhammad Ali Gardezi, who holds the office of PIA chairman by virtue of being Federal Secretary Aviation Division, set up what he called a Way Forward Committee, to look into management-related problems with the airline. Captain Suhail Baloch, who was Palpa’s president until recently, was made head of the committee, which has the mandate to make recommendations to improve the performance of the airline. The committee has been given a free hand to not just recommend but also implement the required changes.

For Baloch, it is an opportunity to serve the airline better. “We made a presentation to the chairman in September, 2013, and, being a proactive decision-taker, he asked us to be part of the committee. Our mandate is solely to highlight the problems and recommend improvements, not run as a parallel management body,” he says.

One of PIA’s senior most pilots, who also held a senior management position, is shocked at the development. “Who is truly calling the shots at PIA?” he asks. “You have some extravagantly-paid professional managers in the organisation, who are overruled by eight hand-picked members of the committee, none of whom are trained as managers. Where in the world does this happen?”

The management, meanwhile, seems comfortable with the committee’s involvement in operational decisions. Officials in the management, in fact, say that the committee’s recommendations, such as the Fly Smart programme for fuel conservation, have helped cut some costs. Sher Ali Khan, staff officer to special adviser Azeem, says that the committee’s involvement is an encouraging sign that employees are willing to participate in the improvement of PIA and are ready to own their responsibilities in this regard.

A recent development, however, may throw a spanner in the working of the committee. Baloch lost the Palpa elections, held last month. When asked about the future of the committee and his role in it, he says, “I spoke to the chairman and asked about giving the committee an official capacity so that it can continue its good work.” This may not be acceptable to others in the organisation, especially those who have defeated him in the Palpa election.

“Pilots are an extremely valuable commodity and ideally we prefer if they are not part of the management,” says Aamir Hashmi, the recently elected Palpa chairman. “If a pilot still wants to be part of the management, he can do so with Palpa’s consent only and maintain strict professionalism.”

Secondly, in an official capacity that Baloch is looking to demand for the committee, it runs the risk of becoming an officially recognised parallel management body, which he so far denies it is not.

This makes one wonder if uncertain leadership is the cause behind PIA’s drift. Consider this:

In July last year, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif allocated seven billion rupees to the airline but only two months later, he ordered its privatisation. At about the same time, the Way Forward Committee was formed. Where is the airline headed? Who is actually in charge of it?

In January this year, ads appeared in newspapers asking for suitable candidates to apply for the position of chairman/managing director along with a few other key posts. Sher Ali Khan, when asked, confirms to the Herald that the candidates for the post of both chairman and managing director have been shortlisted and names will be finalised within days.

It may not be as easy or as fast as he suggests. While walking through the corridors of the PIA headquarters at Karachi’s Jinnah International Airport, the overriding feeling one gets is that of uncertainty. The staff, even at senior positions, seems extremely cautious while responding to even the smallest of queries.

It is not surprising that such lack of clarity is reflected in the performance of the airline. A PIA source warily admits that decision-making in the organisation is severely lacking. The managing director has been nearly sidelined, while most other senior staff members are waiting and watching. What is evident is that the organisational structure has been disturbed, allowing insecurity to creep in and affect performance.

Another senior PIA pilot, with 36 years of flying experience, is highly critical of this state of affairs. “With such a top-heavy management structure, why can’t they make even a single economically viable decision; how can you expect the airline to survive?”

In 2010, the management prepared a 164-page comprehensive restructuring plan (a copy of which has been seen by the Herald), which performed extensively detailed fleet and route analysis and made realistic assumptions based on these analyses. Some of the key recommendations in this plan included the removal of non-core functions from the PIA structure, giving them an autonomous identity and forcing them to sustain themselves. These functions included the flight kitchen, maintenance repair and overhaul and the Speedex courier service. The plan also recommended the elimination of 4,300 staff positions.

The new business plan presented to the government has copied parts of the 2010 plan but some elements in the new plan are completely off the mark. For instance, it projects a seat factor of 85 per cent to 87 per cent when even Emirates – the world’s top airline with a fleet of 212 planes, all of which are wide body – can achieve a seat factor of 80 per cent to 82 per cent. One of the problems with the new plan is that the management does not share its details beyond 2014. Is the plan indirectly suggesting that the current management does not need to plan beyond the end of this year since, by then, the airline would already be in private hands? No one in the management wants to answer this question.




The board of directors of the Privatisation Commission also approved initiation of the process of selection of a financial adviser for the purpose.—File Photo
It is obvious that any plans for PIA’s survival must rest on two main pillars — increasing revenue and cutting costs. So far, it appears both pillars are getting a short shrift. Just as one example: Every PIA flight abroad carries much more food than its passengers can consume. “Carrying extra food, without rationalising the requirement for a long-haul flight, consumes extra fuel. On the return leg of the journey, the same food – which is by now stale – flies back, leaving an odious smell in the cabin and causing great discomfort to passengers,” says one Boeing 777 pilot.

Another missing element in cost-cutting operations is abandoning unprofitable domestic routes. The airline continues to fly on such routes due to political reasons and geographical needs of far-flung areas as the “national airline,” which, indeed, makes it very difficult for PIA to come out of its slump.

Outsiders say the answer to the question of PIA’s survival lies in privatisation. There is, indeed, plenty of support for the idea of privatisation and former chairman Saeed is one of its many supporters. They all seem to believe that the airline can only be saved by making smart decisions through a strong leadership, which is not available in the government. They give the examples of Idris Jala, the former chief executive officer of Malaysia Airlines, and Kazuo Inamori, who revived Japan Airlines, both of whom came from the private sector and did not even have any experience of aviation. But both are known to have enough leadership qualities to implement their strategies to turn around the firms under their charge.

Yet, Jala, in an interview with McKinsey & Company, said something that those concerned with the fate of PIA must pay heed to. He said, when he took over the Malaysian airline, he sought to find out what was wrong with the company’s profit and loss accounts. “It’s crucially important to frame the problem in the context of the profit and loss rather than something nebulous, like the culture, the structure, the processes,” he is quoted as saying.

For that to be replicated in PIA, it is imperative to bring in the expertise of those who can take a microscopic view to determine at what cost the airline, can, or should, be saved. Instead of continuously feeding the airline with piecemeal government loans, that only add to its liability burden, they need to find out what works and what can be made to work, avoiding to do all that is not working despite efforts to the contrary. There has to be a clearly defined business plan and an unambiguous procedure to implement it, rather than the existing confusion and lack of a well thought out way forward.

Independent analyst Mosharraf Zaidi believes the most important step PIA could take right now is to hire “the best airline CEO that money can buy.” Citing the example of Jala and those running Gulf airlines, Zaidi says, “There’s nothing stopping Pakistan from hiring a foreigner to do this job.”

Jala, in his own words, believes that,

“At the start of a turnaround journey, a company is not a democracy. You can’t empower people or ask everybody what they think. You have to be directive, brave enough to set the course.”

Pakistan’s own man with similar traits was Nur Khan, who, as the head of PIA, took it to giddying heights.
One of the biggest challenges that a future leader of PIA will face is getting rid of staff that the airline does not necessarily require. Consider this: With a functional fleet of only 25 planes, PIA has nearly 600 pilots. Other sections are similarly overstaffed. But anyone trying to bring these numbers down to a reasonable level will have to face stiff resistance from the workers’ unions as well as myriad staff associations at the airline. This is much easier said than done.

So far, the management shies away from mentioning words like lay-off, retrenchment and so on, and is at pains to point out that staff is not where the problem lies. “Salaries make up only 17 per cent of our total expenditure whereas the world average is between 22 per cent and 25 per cent,” Tajwar says.

Figures from the PIA’s human resources department show that around 6,000 people have retired from PIA during the last six years but not as many have been hired in their place. This could be a backhanded way of rationalising staff strength, though the airline’s annual reports don’t show whether there has been any considerable reduction in the number of staff over the last six years. The total number of PIA staff, in fact, has increased from 18,036 in 2008 to 19,500 in 2013.

If retirements are indeed retrenchments, they can show their impact only in the very long term and those retiring may not be leaving those positions open which are surplus. They may be retiring from posts that are essential to the working of the airline. In that situation, not hiring new people to replace those retiring will only hurt the airline.

In the ultimate analysis, all the various failures of the PIA’s management and the airline’s inability to match revenues with increases in expense over things such as fuel is leading to an additional burden on the already beleaguered national exchequer. Every now and then, the government has to bail out the airline with handouts of billions of rupees. Subsidising air travel for the few is unsustainable for a state that is failing to provide basic services, such as sanitation and clean drinking water to many.

How long will such subsidies continue to sustain the unsustainable operations of an overstaffed, underutilised airline? Only those in the government have the answer. The rest of us can only expect it to end sooner rather than later.
​

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## khanboy007

An old PIA video i found

*at 4:22 it can be seen that the concorde is landing* but i guess the PIA's 747 takes all the glory 






good times

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## SHAMK9

Pierre Cardin outfit was the classiest

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## imiakhtar

fatman17 said:


> Consider this: With a functional fleet of only 25 planes, PIA has nearly 600 pilots. Other sections are similarly overstaffed.



On the whole, a good article Fatman.

However, this point re pilot staffing levels is off the mark. Airlines typically have 20-25 pilots per aircraft. PIA pilot numbers aren't too far from the norm.

If I was the PIA MD, I would close down PIA engineering and contract out engineering services to other centres (HAECO, Lufthansa Technik, AF/KLM who cares).

PIA flight training school would be closed and assets sold off.

Secondly, I would implement the previously suggested code share arrangement with Turkish Airlines for destinations in the EU and North America. 

Following the code share arrangement I would pull and cancel PIA services to Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Leeds Bradford, Copenhagen, Oslo, Barcelona, Rome, Moscow, Beijing, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Tokyo and New York. If the numbers aren't favourable, I would cancel Toronto too.

The UK-Pak services from Manchester, Birmingham and London would have their frequency increased to at least daily and would be operated to Islamabad only (Lahore, Karachi-UK cancelled).

On the domestic and Mid-East route network, I would withdraw International flights from secondary airports (Peshawar, Faisalabad, Quetta. Sialkot, Multan etc). Anyone traveling to the Mid East from these cities would have to take a feeder flight to Lahore, Karachi or Islamabad.

The only region I would expand the PIA network would be into India and Bangladesh where PIA could compete by targeting Indian and Bengali expats in the Mid-east and UK. 

The fleet would consist of the following:

ATR42/72
Boeing 737 or Airbus A32x - preferably the A320 family due to the larger A321 with a view of operating the 737max or A320neo.
B777 - to be replaced by B787-9/10 or the A350-900/1000 depending on availability.

If the situation improves down the line with regards to economy and security, the airline could look at the Bombardier C series for thinner routes in the Mid-East and Asia as well as the reopening of nonstop daily flights to North America.


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## janu.bravo

B777 to be replaced? LOL... we are not going to replace any 777 before 2030(like 747). also we are going to induct 5 more 777 in 2015. and 777-300er is still better thn 787 9/10 and A-350 (because they are still not tested) and when they are near to retire 777-9x will replace them.



imiakhtar said:


> On the whole, a good article Fatman.
> 
> However, this point re pilot staffing levels is off the mark. Airlines typically have 20-25 pilots per aircraft. PIA pilot numbers aren't too far from the norm.
> 
> If I was the PIA MD, I would close down PIA engineering and contract out engineering services to other centres (HAECO, Lufthansa Technik, AF/KLM who cares).
> 
> PIA flight training school would be closed and assets sold off.
> 
> Secondly, I would implement the previously suggested code share arrangement with Turkish Airlines for destinations in the EU and North America.
> 
> Following the code share arrangement I would pull and cancel PIA services to Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Leeds Bradford, Copenhagen, Oslo, Barcelona, Rome, Moscow, Beijing, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Tokyo and New York. If the numbers aren't favourable, I would cancel Toronto too.
> 
> The UK-Pak services from Manchester, Birmingham and London would have their frequency increased to at least daily and would be operated to Islamabad only (Lahore, Karachi-UK cancelled).
> 
> On the domestic and Mid-East route network, I would withdraw International flights from secondary airports (Peshawar, Faisalabad, Quetta. Sialkot, Multan etc). Anyone traveling to the Mid East from these cities would have to take a feeder flight to Lahore, Karachi or Islamabad.
> 
> The only region I would expand the PIA network would be into India and Bangladesh where PIA could compete by targeting Indian and Bengali expats in the Mid-east and UK.
> 
> The fleet would consist of the following:
> 
> ATR42/72
> Boeing 737 or Airbus A32x - preferably the A320 family due to the larger A321 with a view of operating the 737max or A320neo.
> B777 - to be replaced by B787-9/10 or the A350-900/1000 depending on availability.
> 
> If the situation improves down the line with regards to economy and security, the airline could look at the Bombardier C series for thinner routes in the Mid-East and Asia as well as the reopening of nonstop daily flights to North America.


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## imiakhtar

janu.bravo said:


> and 777-300er is still better thn 787 9/10 and A-350



777=300ER Still better?

Then why are airline buying more 787s and A350s - aircraft that DO and WILL have fuel consumption roughly 15% than current models on a per seat basis (A330 and 777 respectively)?

Just so that it illustrates my point, here are the cruise fuel burn figures (bear in mind airlines look at fuel burn per seat):

I've got a 787 QRH to hand which shows it burning fuel 4.5-5.5 tons/hour. The A350 will be 5-6 tons/hour (and according to Rolls-Royce and Airbus, the A350XWB is achieving fuel burn targets). As a comparison, the A330 burns 5-6 tons/hour and the 77W 7-8 tons/hour.

This is what Boeing says:

_The airplane uses 20 percent less fuel than today’s similarly sized airplanes._

Given that current models are still overweight and engines 1-2% off fuel burn spec, they're closer to 15% at the moment.

Boeing: About the 787 Family

_The Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner burns 27% less than the A340-300._

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/tridion/images/787nov_tcm4-523607.pdf

_The Trent 1000 powered Boeing 787 Dreamliner is 20% more efficient than the Boeing 767 aircraft it replaces._

Courtesy of AirInsight:







You are being redirected...

Given that the 777X will be seating more than the A350 and 77W, it is a capacity increase PIA does not need, and is a constraint that won't allow the 777X to be as flexible on PIA's route network as a 787/A350 or current 77W.


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## janu.bravo

You are taking me wrong, I said its better because they are still not tested. 777 is still better because it is tested and it will not give you headache like 787 is currently giving to every airline who are operating it....around 2-3 wks before i saw a news something like boeing persons found wing cracks in 787-9....Also A-350 is in testing stage....if you are really pushing for new technology then why not for 777-9x? its more better thn 787 or A-350? i i don't know how you calculated the 777-9 facts but you can still compare the fuel vs seat ratio of 777-9 with A-350. 

and its just our debate....because we all knw that we are not going to order any 777-9x or A-350.




imiakhtar said:


> 777=300ER Still better?
> 
> Then why are airline buying more 787s and A350s - aircraft that DO and WILL have fuel consumption roughly 15% than current models on a per seat basis (A330 and 777 respectively)?
> 
> Just so that it illustrates my point, here are the cruise fuel burn figures (bear in mind airlines look at fuel burn per seat):
> 
> I've got a 787 QRH to hand which shows it burning fuel 4.5-5.5 tons/hour. The A350 will be 5-6 tons/hour (and according to Rolls-Royce and Airbus, the A350XWB is achieving fuel burn targets). As a comparison, the A330 burns 5-6 tons/hour and the 77W 7-8 tons/hour.
> 
> This is what Boeing says:
> 
> _The airplane uses 20 percent less fuel than today’s similarly sized airplanes._
> 
> Given that current models are still overweight and engines 1-2% off fuel burn spec, they're closer to 15% at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> _The Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner burns 27% less than the A340-300._
> 
> 
> _The Trent 1000 powered Boeing 787 Dreamliner is 20% more efficient than the Boeing 767 aircraft it replaces._
> 
> Courtesy of AirInsight:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given that the 777X will be seating more than the A350 and 77W, it is a capacity increase PIA does not need, and is a constraint that won't allow the 777X to be as flexible on PIA's route network as a 787/A350 or current 77W.


----------



## imiakhtar

janu.bravo said:


> I said its better because they are still not tested.



The platforms, 787 and A350 are tested. The engines, Trent 1000, GenX and TrentXWB are tested and their fuel burn figures are known. 



janu.bravo said:


> 777 is still better because it is tested and it will not give you headache like 787 is currently giving to every airline who are operating it.



When the 777 entered service, it had many teething issues as do all aircraft. The GE90 engines were unreliable and required frequent changing. There were issues (and occasionally still are) with the honeywell FMC.



janu.bravo said:


> i saw a news something like boeing persons found wing cracks in 787-9



Which aircraft in service doesn't have directives concerning cracks? Even your beloved 77W has directives issued:

_This proposed AD results from reports of cracks emanating from the keyway of the fuel tank access door cutout of the lower wing skin between wing rib numbers 8 and 9. We are proposing this AD to prevent loss of the lower wing skin load path, which could cause catastrophic structural failure of the wing._

Federal Register | Airworthiness Directives; The Boeing Company Model 777-200LR and -300ER Series Airplanes



janu.bravo said:


> Also A-350 is in testing stage



As I said and posted relevant links, the A350 fuel burn is ON TARGET. Airbus have completed almost 1000 hours of flight testing on the A350, they've flown longhaul flights over 10+ hours from France-Bolivia and Singapore-France and the telemetry has been measured. If you don't believe me, why don't you listen or read the words of Al Baker of Qatar Airways. Given the arguments and bad press he gave boeing over the 787 missing targets, he would definitely have done the same for airbus.



janu.bravo said:


> if you are really pushing for new technology then why not for 777-9x?



As I said, the 777-9X is significantly larger than the A350-1000 and B77W given that it will seat over 400 in standard config. PIA does not need this capacity and the frame would not give the flexibility of a lower capacity aircraft. Also, if PIA were to order the 777X today, they wouldn't receive it until after 2022 (by which time the 777s will be approaching 20yrs old) and the 787/A350 can be had earlier. 



janu.bravo said:


> i i don't know how you calculated the 777-9 facts but you can still compare the fuel vs seat ratio of 777-9 with A-350



Whilst the 777X will have better fuel burn per seat compared to the A350, 1- the delta is small and 2 - the A380 has the best fuel burn per seat, but that doesn't mean it's a good fit for PIA or most airlines does it?



janu.bravo said:


> i i don't know how you calculated the 777-9 facts



Those aren't my facts, the numbers given are by Air Insight, one of the most highly regarded consultancy firms in the aviation industry.


----------



## janu.bravo

LOL. dude if 787 is that much tested thn why every airline is complaining? i know every plane got some issues but 787 got some extra....even boeing spokesman said that they need to make 787 as safe as 777....and 777 is boeing's benchmark for reliability.

A-350 is still in testing stage even it cross the 1000 hour sorties...A-350 can prove its reliability when it will be delivered to any airline...just like 787, and after that we can see.

777 is not my beloved aircraft mine is A-321 

plus 777-9X is in the league of A-350 (wide-body) and with 60 more passengers you cant say PIA does not need that capacity of plane. if PIA doesn't need that much big plane thn PIA also doesn't need A-350.. also i am not in favor of A-380...all we need is A-320's or 737 right now.






imiakhtar said:


> The platforms, 787 and A350 are tested. The engines, Trent 1000, GenX and TrentXWB are tested and their fuel burn figures are known.
> 
> 
> 
> When the 777 entered service, it had many teething issues as do all aircraft. The GE90 engines were unreliable and required frequent changing. There were issues (and occasionally still are) with the honeywell FMC.
> 
> 
> 
> Which aircraft in service doesn't have directives concerning cracks? Even your beloved 77W has directives issued:
> 
> _This proposed AD results from reports of cracks emanating from the keyway of the fuel tank access door cutout of the lower wing skin between wing rib numbers 8 and 9. We are proposing this AD to prevent loss of the lower wing skin load path, which could cause catastrophic structural failure of the wing._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said and posted relevant links, the A350 fuel burn is ON TARGET. Airbus have completed almost 1000 hours of flight testing on the A350, they've flown longhaul flights over 10+ hours from France-Bolivia and Singapore-France and the telemetry has been measured. If you don't believe me, why don't you listen or read the words of Al Baker of Qatar Airways. Given the arguments and bad press he gave boeing over the 787 missing targets, he would definitely have done the same for airbus.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, the 777-9X is significantly larger than the A350-1000 and B77W given that it will seat over 400 in standard config. PIA does not need this capacity and the frame would not give the flexibility of a lower capacity aircraft. Also, if PIA were to order the 777X today, they wouldn't receive it until after 2022 (by which time the 777s will be approaching 20yrs old) and the 787/A350 can be had earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> Whilst the 777X will have better fuel burn per seat compared to the A350, 1- the delta is small and 2 - the A380 has the best fuel burn per seat, but that doesn't mean it's a good fit for PIA or most airlines does it?
> 
> 
> 
> Those aren't my facts, the numbers given are by Air Insight, one of the most highly regarded consultancy firms in the aviation industry.


----------



## imiakhtar

janu.bravo said:


> plus 777-9X is in the league of A-350 (wide-body) and with 60 more passengers you cant say PIA does not need that capacity of plane. if PIA doesn't need that much big plane thn PIA also doesn't need A-350



The A350 is designed to compete with the 77W which PIA operates. As such it would make a good replacement. If PIA ios finding the A350-1000 too big, they can opt for the A350-900.

You keep talking about reliability. This isn't the 1980s anymore with protected skies and nationalised airlines. Airlines have got to move quickly and adapt against competitors and one of the best ways of doing so is with a young, flexible, fuel efficient fleet. PIA's woes at the moment are being caused by 20 year old A310s and 25 year old 737s which they're struggling to maintain. IF PIA were to order the 787/A350 today, they wouldn't be one of the first operators (the early frames tend to be heavy and most unreliable).

The 777-9X is designed to replace the 747-8 which will be likely be cancelled within 10 years.


----------



## SHAMK9

imiakhtar said:


> The 777-9X is designed to replace the 747-8 which will be likely be cancelled within 10 years.


I would be surprised if Boeing doesn't cancel 747-8 program in next two years


----------



## Thorough Pro

Close down all international money-making routes, instead just do joy rides around airports! 

for the highlighted part, why not just focus on transporting the cattle, that would be a lot better.



imiakhtar said:


> If I was the PIA MD, I would close down PIA engineering and contract out engineering services to other centres (HAECO, Lufthansa Technik, AF/KLM who cares).
> 
> PIA flight training school would be closed and assets sold off.
> 
> Following the code share arrangement I would pull and cancel PIA services to Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Leeds Bradford, Copenhagen, Oslo, Barcelona, Rome, Moscow, Beijing, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Tokyo and New York. If the numbers aren't favourable, I would cancel Toronto too.
> 
> On the domestic and Mid-East route network, I would withdraw International flights from secondary airports (Peshawar, Faisalabad, Quetta. Sialkot, Multan etc). Anyone traveling to the Mid East from these cities would have to take a feeder flight to Lahore, Karachi or Islamabad.
> 
> *The only region I would expand the PIA network would be into India and Bangladesh where PIA could compete by targeting Indian and Bengali expats in the Mid-east and UK. *


----------



## imiakhtar

Thorough Pro said:


> international money-making routes,



Where did I say close them all down?

Why did PIA MD try to arrange codeshares via Turkish Airlines to all those EU and North America cities - it was so PIA could withdraw from those silly "community service" routes and focus on an area where they can actually compete in the Gulf.

Pakistanis need to get it in their head that PIA is a business and not a taxi service!

Oh and have a look at Behtamjee's blog here. He's uses Sabre and Amadeus booking numbers to look at passenger flows.

Behramjee's Airline News

The routes I mentioned above for the chop don't make 70% LF in high season and most carry very little cargo (I've posted the flight plans before).



Thorough Pro said:


> for the highlighted part, why not just focus on transporting the cattle, that would be a lot better.



Like it or not, the truth is PIA has been a VFR or "cattle" carrier since the 1980s. This is reflected in the aircraft configurations operated by PIA with the huge Y class.


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## AsianLion

*Plan to induct 28 newest top-line Aircraft to revamp PIA*

Under 'Revival of PIA plan'.

Tariq Butt -Wednesday, April 05, 2014

ISLAMABAD: The crisis-ridden Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) plans to induct 28 aircraft as part of its revival strategy to bring itself to a breakeven level with increased revenue and cost cutting measures by the end of the current year.

*The planes will be 20 new generation A-320, B-737, and four Boeing 777 and ATR 72-500 aircraft each.*“The only option is to turn around the national flag carrier through different steps,” Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on Aviation Shujaat Azim told The News.

He said the planes would be immediately taken on dry lease (on rent without fuel, pilots or general flight expenses, having operational control of the flights). “Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif wants that the planes not older than 2010 should be taken.”

According to a presentation titled “revival of PIA”, given to top authorities, a copy of which is available with The News, the current fleet of 777 aircraft would be refurbished to the highest level, which would be used only on long haul flights to Britain, the US, Canada and Saudi Arabia.

The PIA would be restructured with creation of Strategic Business Units (SBUs), starting with SPEEDEX and followed by kitchen and MRO (Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul). Non-core activities would be separated from core to ensure profitability and efficiency.

It is projected that the total fleet including the new inductions will generate annual revenue of Rs72 billion at 85% seat factor and 12.5 hours fleet utilization/day. The additional revenue will offset losses, it is hoped.

It has been expected that positive impact of modern fleet will raise the passenger confidence, and enhance revenue, schedule reliability and route rationalization and reduce fuel cost by 38% and maintenance cost. The overall operating expenses will come down by 30%.

At present, the PIA has a fleet of 34 aircrafts out of which only 25 are serviceable. They operate on 23 domestic and 30 foreign destinations. The airline has the market share of 60.2% (domestic) and 26.8% (international). It overall share comes to 34.4%.

The presentation said that the average age of the existing fleet is nearly 17 years. The PIA has 19,418 employees (inclusive of 3,188 personnel through service providers).

Employee-to-aircraft ratio is 776, which is almost four times higher than the worldwide ratio. The airline owns assets (aircrafts, properties etc.) worth 128,211,290 billion as against liabilities (loans, Civil Aviation Authority, Original Equipment Manufacturers or OEMs etc.) of 262,549,613 billion. This presents a highly dismal financial condition.

The presentation said that business class seats will be upgraded to full flat beds; in-flight entertainment will be improved and cabin ambiance will be changed with placing of carpets, seat covers, curtains, side trims, panels, and gallery equipment.

Of the existing PIA fleet, two of four Boeing 747 aircrafts (26-year old) are serviceable. Similarly, six out of twelve Airbus A310 (20-year old) are operational. Two of three Boeing 737 planes (26-year old) are serviceable. All the six ATR 42 (7-year old) planes are in service.

Likewise, all the nine Boeing 777 aircrafts are operational. With the exception of one Boeing 777, which is on lease, all the planes are owned by the PIA. Technical reasons have been cited for the nine planes being out of operation. Except Boeing 777 and ATR aircrafts, the average age of the fleet is 18 years.

As part of the revival strategy, the PIA has stopped all perks and privileges of present and previous members of its board and chairman. The procurement of aircraft parts will only be from the OEMs. All off-line stations are being closed to save cost. The performance of all the General Sales Agents (GSAs) is being reviewed. Free seat up-gradation or excess baggage has been stopped, the presentation said.

Plan to induct 28 new aircraft to revamp PIA - thenews.com.pk


----------



## imiakhtar

AsianUnion said:


> The planes will be 20 new generation A-320, B-737, and four Boeing 777 and ATR 72-500 aircraft each.



That's all good and well but why the split 737 and A320 family fleet. For a small airlines like PIA, that means separate flight training, spares and maintenance which equal additional expense.



AsianUnion said:


> “Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif wants that the planes not older than 2010 should be taken.”



PIA rejected the last tender offers for 4 widebody aircraft as they were all pre 2010 aircraft. Where are PIA going to get post 2010 built 777s from?



AsianUnion said:


> The News, the current fleet of 777 aircraft would be refurbished to the highest level, which would be used only on long haul flights to Britain, the US, Canada and Saudi Arabia.



Since when is a Saudi-Pak flight long haul? I've mentioned it before but with PIAs small fleet, they can not afford to use the 777 on short-haul flights as a norm.



AsianUnion said:


> will generate annual revenue of Rs72 billion at 85% seat factor and 12.5 hours fleet utilization/day.



PIA load factor was 70% in 2012. They are dreaming if they think they can get it up to 85% in a few years.



AsianUnion said:


> The airline owns assets (aircrafts, properties etc.) worth 128,211,290 billion as against liabilities (loans, Civil Aviation Authority, Original Equipment Manufacturers or OEMs etc.) of 262,549,613 billion.



Ie, they're bankrupt.



AsianUnion said:


> This presents a highly dismal financial condition.



Understatement of the year. 

I just picked this little gem from their corporate reports. Funny percentages:


----------



## Edevelop

*Two weekly flights from Lahore to Kyrgyzstan in August*

*LAHORE: Two flights in a week from Lahore to Kyrgyzstan will be launched in August and delegations will be exchanged for promotion of trade between the two countries.*

These views were expressed by Kyrgyzstan Ambassador in Pakistan Kubanchybek and Chairman (Partner) Air Kyrgyzstan Pakistan Aamir Ghafoor while talking to media people on Friday. On this occasion, President Chamber of Commerce S. M. Naseer was also present.

Kyrgyzstan Ambassador Kubanchybek said that soon after Ramzanul Mubarik, two direct flights from Lahore to Kyrgyzstan would be started. Religion and culture of both countries are same and as such we will have to make progress and development together. He further said his country had a big market of textile and furniture, and we wanted that businessmen of Pakistan should also have access to the markets of Russia and Kyrgyzstan after China. He added that Kyrgyzstan also enjoyed status of wholesale dealer in the world market.

Chairman (Partner) Air Kyrgyzstan Pakistan Aamir Ghafoor said that in order to provide better opportunities to Pakistani businessmen in the world market, we had started the process of man to man contacts for access to the markets of China, Russia and Kyrgyzstan in collaboration with the Federation of Pakistan Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FPCCI). He informed the businessmen that Pakistani businessmen had to travel through China for going to Kyrgyzstan. For saving time of businessmen and other people, we have prepared a schedule for direct flights from Lahore, he said.


Two weekly flights from Lahore to Kyrgyzstan in August - thenews.com.pk


----------



## khanboy007

Pakistani plane accidently lands at wrong airport in Saudi Arabia | GulfNews.com

*Pakistani plane accidently lands at wrong airport in Saudi Arabia*

Manama: Passengers have asked for financial compensation after a Pakistani International Airlines (PIA) plane flying them from Karachi to Riyadh landed at King Abdul Aziz International Airport in Jeddah.

The passengers were deeply shocked when they found themselves at the airport in the Red Sea city instead of the international airport in the Saudi capital, Saudi news site Sabq reported on Sunday.

No explanation was given how Flight 731 with more than 200 passengers on board ended up almost 1,000km west of the announced destination.

The Pakistani company provided buses to transport the passengers to the capital and offered them food and drinks, Sabq said.

Some of the passengers speculated that the plane was originally scheduled to fly to Jeddah, but accepted to take people who had booked to go to Riyadh without informing them they would be flying to Jeddah.

Other passengers called for stringent action against the pilot in case he is found to have committed the mistake of landing at the wrong airport, the news site said.

Readers’ comments were mainly sympathetic with the passengers and expressed their support as they had to be driven overland for almost 1,000km.

--------------------------------------------

*ganda hay par dhanda hay*

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## imiakhtar

khanboy007 said:


> Pakistani plane accidently lands at wrong airport in Saudi Arabia



JED is over 1 hour flying time from Riyadh. This flight was obviously intended for Jeddah from the offset given the additional fuel considerations.


----------



## khanboy007

Saudi Arabia denies landing of PIA flight at wrong airport | GulfNews.com

*Saudi Arabia denies landing of PIA flight at wrong airport*

Riyadh-bound passengers shocked to find themselves in Jeddah, report says


By Habib Toumi, Bureau Chief
Published: 13:50 April 14, 2014

Manama: The General Authority of Civil Aviation of Saudi Arabia has denied reports that a Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) plane flying from Karachi to Riyadh had mistakenly landed at King Abdul Aziz International Airport in Jeddah.

“There is no way that a plane lands by mistake at Jeddah airport instead of Riyadh because all inbound and outbound flights are in accordance with a specific schedule approved by the General Authority of Civil Aviation,” Abdullah Al Khabiri, the spokesperson for the authority, said, quoted by local news site Sabq.

PIA Flight 731 from Karachi is scheduled to land in Jeddah on Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, while Flight 732 leaves from Jeddah, he added.

PIA Flight 729 from Karachi to Riyadh is scheduled for Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday while Flight 730 is from the Riyadh to Karachi.

On Sunday, Sabq reported that passengers have asked for financial compensation after a PIA plane flying them from Karachi to Riyadh landed instead at King Abdul Aziz International Airport in Jeddah.

The passengers were shocked when they found themselves at the airport in the Red Sea city instead of the international airport in the Saudi capital, Sabq reported, citing Pakistani media.

The Pakistani company provided buses to transport the passengers to the capital, almost 1,000 kilometres away, and offered them food and drinks, the reports said.

-----------------------

Alhamdulillah this turns up

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## khanboy007

BBC News - Airline cuts Leeds Bradford Airport to Pakistan route

*Airline cuts Leeds Bradford Airport to Pakistan route*







Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) is to close its service from Leeds Bradford Airport to Islamabad following claims the route is uneconomic.

The twice weekly flights will end in May with the airline adding an extra flight from Manchester Airport.

PIA said "this decision has been taken due to heavy losses being incurred on this route".

Tony Hallwood, the airport's aviation development manager, described the closure as "very disappointing".

Mr Hallwood said he was surprised at the decision, claiming that the airport's own figures showed the two flights were the "fastest growing of PIA services in the UK at present".

'Significant demand'
He said: "We know the figures and we have shown that our passenger growth over the last 12 months has been around about 30% and, in certain months, higher than that.

"Which clearly shows there is significant demand."

The airline started the flights six years ago, just after the airport was privatised.

A PIA spokesman said: "Despite our best efforts, the route's economics have not been very promising.

"The major reason behind this rationale is very high operational costs due lack of fuel-efficient aircraft."

The airline said it would be using a different aircraft on the Manchester route which was more fuel efficient and carried more passengers.

Mr Hallwood said he hoped PIA would reverse its closure plans and introduce newer, more cost effective aircraft to Leeds.

"However, if they [PIA] find it impossible to resurrect those services then of course we will look to introduce other services with other carriers at the earliest opportunity," he added.


----------



## SHAMK9

khanboy007 said:


> BBC News - Airline cuts Leeds Bradford Airport to Pakistan route
> 
> *Airline cuts Leeds Bradford Airport to Pakistan route*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) is to close its service from Leeds Bradford Airport to Islamabad following claims the route is uneconomic.
> 
> The twice weekly flights will end in May with the airline adding an extra flight from Manchester Airport.
> 
> PIA said "this decision has been taken due to heavy losses being incurred on this route".
> 
> Tony Hallwood, the airport's aviation development manager, described the closure as "very disappointing".
> 
> Mr Hallwood said he was surprised at the decision, claiming that the airport's own figures showed the two flights were the "fastest growing of PIA services in the UK at present".
> 
> 'Significant demand'
> He said: "We know the figures and we have shown that our passenger growth over the last 12 months has been around about 30% and, in certain months, higher than that.
> 
> "Which clearly shows there is significant demand."
> 
> The airline started the flights six years ago, just after the airport was privatised.
> 
> A PIA spokesman said: "Despite our best efforts, the route's economics have not been very promising.
> 
> "The major reason behind this rationale is very high operational costs due lack of fuel-efficient aircraft."
> 
> The airline said it would be using a different aircraft on the Manchester route which was more fuel efficient and carried more passengers.
> 
> Mr Hallwood said he hoped PIA would reverse its closure plans and introduce newer, more cost effective aircraft to Leeds.
> 
> "However, if they [PIA] find it impossible to resurrect those services then of course we will look to introduce other services with other carriers at the earliest opportunity," he added.


Good, Frankfurt and Amsterdam should be next if they are not operated non-stop.

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## khanboy007

SHAMK9 said:


> Good, Frankfurt and Amsterdam should be next if they are not operated non-stop.



not sure about Amsterdam; but adding a flight to Frankfurt would be a viable option or else increase the numbers from Oslo,Manchester,Birmingham

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## khanboy007

*an interesting article *

------------------------------------------------

*PIA: A festering wound*

There is a large Pakistani expat community living in USA, with sizable population in Texas, Illinois and the Tri States of New York, Connecticut, New Jersey and the West Coast. In the past PIA flew to Houston, Chicago, Washington and New York. The national airline recently bought expensive, long range B-777 with ‘Business Plan’ based on expansion of Trans Atlantic operations. *The PIA management instead of increasing its routes sold very lucrative routes to other countries. When the routes shrunk there were less flights, most of them operating at an average capacity of 69%, which is just enough to be profitable.* PIA faces huge problems because of the unchecked pilferage of revenues, kickbacks in procurement and leasing of aircraft, lack of accountability, gross financial misappropriation, mediocrity and posting incompetent and corrupt persons at crucial international hubs, both by successive military and elected civil governments.
If PIA had a competent management with integrity, it would have brought all its teams such as marketing, finance and top management, on the same page and stopped policies which translate into, what constitutes unchecked repetitive commercial suicide. *The U-turn taken after building up traffic, all of a sudden at take off point, PIA closed its lucrative routes and by a strange coincidence, some airline in the Gulf estate or Turkey, starts its operation, filling in the deliberate void.* What baffles the imagination is that nobody in Islamabad, or the Board Of Directors of PIA has taken note of these practices by some management team, post retirement, these same senior executives end up getting cushy jobs in subsidiaries owned by the airlines based in Gulf. Hajj and Umra pilgrims continued to be fleeced by PIA and few travel agents or tour operators, even after change of government.
Pakistani expatriates in US are shocked when the toll free 1-800-578-6786 has a recording announcing the departure from JFK, New York as 19:00 hrs, instead of the actual flight time which is 21:00 hrs. *While PIA has highest employee to aircraft ratio in the world, yet it has curtailed Central Control, manned by Licensed Flight Dispatcher to help co-ordinate and avoid unnecessary diversions, improve fleet utilization and maintain punctuality of schedules.* Can somebody explain why PK 721 on April 15, diverted to Washington, when JFK New York Airport was open for all departures and landings?
How can PIA improve if it protects employees who submitted fake degrees, fake birth certificates, fake domiciles at time of recruitment, or are involved in gross financial mismanagement and grave administrative indiscipline? Is someone looking into the matter or will it fester like a wound forever depriving Pakistan of a national airline?
ALI MALIK TARIQ,
Lahore, April 23.

PIA: A festering wound

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## imiakhtar

khanboy007 said:


> an interesting article



Actually, it's bloody awful.

British Airways couldn't make any money flying to Dhaka with 90% load factors and despite overall profits, almost every single long haul Pacific route to Asia operated by airlines in the US is losing money.

Qantas is losing money faster than it can count on International ops. If it wasn't for a strong and profitable domestic sector, Qantas would collapse. 

Air India has been shedding capacity and has spare 777s sitting around as it doesn't want to deploy them on long haul flights to Europe and America as the flights lose money.

I'll ask the question that I asked before - If Air India, which serves a far larger expat community and travel market, operates a modern fleet with lots of capacity to a stable growing economy can't make money on most long haul flights, what makes the writer of this article think that PIA can?

Long haul flying where fuel is almost 50% of costs is not cheap, especially when you're flying 10+ hour sectors. 



khanboy007 said:


> The national airline recently bought expensive, long range B-777 with ‘Business Plan’ based on expansion of Trans Atlantic operations.



Actually the plan was for the 777 to replace the 747. The objective of starting more or strengthening transatlantic flights was secondary.



khanboy007 said:


> kickbacks in procurement and leasing of aircraft



There is no proof of this.

One of the reason PIA still has an aging fleet is because it has spent years fighting politicians with their own vested interests. If it wasn't for successive politicians and managing directors pulling in different directions, PIA would have been able to tender and replace their short/medium haul fleet by now.

Instead we have a cat and mouse game with unrealistic aircraft tenders being issued, accepted withdrawn cancelled etc depending on the preferences of ministers.

If you follow the aircraft tenders recently, you will find that the evaluation reports often include the lease costs.



khanboy007 said:


> PIA closed its lucrative routes



Houston, Chicago, Glasgow, Leeds-Bradford, Amsterdam etc are not lucrative routes when you fly a crappy 2 weekly service with load factors averaging 65%. 



khanboy007 said:


> Turkey, starts its operation, filling in the deliberate void



The plan to start a code-share arrangement with Turkish on EU and American routes was probably the best idea to come from a Pakistani MD in decades. 



khanboy007 said:


> Can somebody explain why PK 721 on April 15, diverted to Washington, when JFK New York Airport was open for all departures and landings?



Flight was diverted like 100s of others due to low visibility:

More than 3,500 US flights delayed, 643 canceled today; New York City area and Philadelphia airports see most impact - FlightAware.com - breakingnews.com

EWR JFK LGA SWF (NY_NJairports) on Twitter


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## Al Bhatti

UAE having a population of around 6 million and passenger capacity of just the two Dubai airports are (i am not counting the capacity of airports of the other six emirates):

Old airport: will be 90 million by the end of the decade
New airport: Final capacity will be 220 million passenger per year

All this is not possible without the combined efforts of different ministries like Interior, tourism, Customs etc…

Meanwhile, what is the best that Pakistani airports and ministries have to offer?

The Dubai General Directorate for Residency and Foreigners Affairs’ (GDRFA) smart gate at Terminal 3 is making life easier for travellers’ entering and exiting without the need to stop at passport control section to show their passport or ID. Travellers who use the smart gate do not need to undergo prior registration with the GDRFA unlike the e-gates. 

The system upgrade will be installed into the e-gate that would allow the identification of passengers by getting their biometrical scan once they walk in.

“The smart gate will work on e-passport, identity card, Emirates’ gate card or smart phone applications and take 20 seconds to proceed with the transaction,” he said.

------------------------

We have Computerized passports and ID cards why this cannot be implemented in Pakistan?

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## Panther 57

SHAMK9 said:


> Good, Frankfurt and Amsterdam should be next if they are not operated non-stop.


Question is why it is uneconomical. Cutting down routes and yet increasing staff is not the solution. PIA has to increase the route, reduce staff and upgrade their services. Looking at local travel I would rate 
Shaheen #1
Air blue #2 
PIA #3

If such is the situation then PIA has to rethink its revival strategy, which has to be commercial and not political. It should not be route oriented but should have vision of revamping the whole organisation. Thai, Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, etc are growing and PIA is shrinking. What a pity. Thanks to its dedicated unions and staff.


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## imiakhtar

Panther 57 said:


> Question is why it is uneconomical.



As things stand, PIA can not compete with other International airlines due to high cost structure. The high cost structure is due to the following: high numbers of staff and an aging and increasingly unreliable fleet.



Panther 57 said:


> PIA has to increase the route, reduce staff and upgrade their services.



I disagree. 

If PIA had followed your suggestion 10 years ago then they would have been in with a chance in those markets (Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Italy, France, Denmark, Japan, China, Malaysia, Bangkok, Hong-Kong). 

Now PIA needs to downsize (network wise), pull out of those markets and follow the old MD's suggestion of code-sharing to those EU destinations with Turkish Airlines. 



Panther 57 said:


> Looking at local travel I would rate
> Shaheen #1
> Air blue #2
> PIA #3



PIA is still No 1 in Pakistan and has almost 60% market share. Given Airblue's difficulties and their crappy management, I would put them at the bottom of your list. Shaheen management isn't much better nor creative and I would rank them below PIA too. 



Panther 57 said:


> Thai,



Thai isn't growing. In fact she's struggling almost as much as PIA.



Panther 57 said:


> Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, etc are growing



You can't compare an O+D airline like PIA with Emirates, Qatar or Etihad. Turkish would be a better comparison.


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## Al Bhatti

The Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has attained operating profit of Rs1.67 billion for the first quarter of 2014 – January 1 to March 31 – as against a loss of Rs5.65 billion of corresponding period last year.

Now compare that with a budget airline of Sharjah, UAE which was founded in February 2003 and commenced operation in October 2003

1,670,000,000.00 PKR = 62,195,283.59 AED as of today

------------------

May 12, 2014

*Air Arabia Q1 profit up 27% to Dh75 million on jet fuel gains*

Net earnings jump as revenues rose 13.5% to Dh827 million

Air Arabia, the Sharjah-based low cost carrier, on Monday reported a 27 per cent jump in first quarter net profit to Dh75 million on the back of improving jet fuel prices.

“Profit continues to benefit from a more conducive fuel environment,” stated Will Horton, senior analyst at CAPA – Centre for Aviation.

Revenue for the three months ending March 31, 2014, increased 13.5 per cent to Dh827 million, compared to Dh722 million in last year’s first quarter.

Highlighting the airline’s performance in the first quarter, Air Arabia stated that the result reflect its “solid financials, strong business model and broad customer base.”

The UAE’s only publicly-listed airline, Air Arabia carried 1.63 million passengers in the first quarter.

The 12 per cent increase in passengers, up from 1.45 million in last year’s first quarter, comes on the back of newly launched routes from Sharjah to Cairo in Egypt, Antalya in Turkey, and Shymkent in Kazakhstan. Average load factor for the first three months stood at 81.5 per cent.

“We remain confident about the long-term prospects for the industry and fully intend to continue spreading our value-for-money philosophy to more destinations and more passengers in the future,” stated Shaikh Abdullah Bin Mohammad Al Thani, chairman of Air Arabia.

However, Air Arabia has not been safeguarded from global volatility in the first quarter. It has reportedly suspended flights to Donetsk in the east of Ukraine, which is the latest city to come under control of pro-Russian militias. It has also reduced frequencies to Kiev and Odessa.

The results, however, do not include newly launched operations from Ras Al Khaimah, which is the airline’s fourth hub after Sharjah, Alexandra in Egypt and Casablanca in Morocco.

Serving seven destinations, Air Arabia launched operations from Ras Al Khaimah last week, having now become the designated carrier for the emirate following the collapse of RAK Airways earlier this year.

“The next two quarters will show how much of a benefit Air Arabia will have from reduced movements at Dubai International, and later this year and early next year if any of the added traffic from the runway works sticks to Air Arabia,” Horton said.

Air Arabia shares closed on the Dubai Financial Market (DFM) down 2.03 per cent to Dh1.45. The results were released after markets closed on Monday.

Air Arabia Q1 profit up 27% to Dh75 million on jet fuel gains | GulfNews.com


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## Panther 57

imiakhtar said:


> PIA is still No 1 in Pakistan and has almost 60% market share. Given Airblue's difficulties and their crappy management, I would put them at the bottom of your list. Shaheen management isn't much better nor creative and I would rank them below PIA too.


I am a frequent traveler and use all three; therefore, am in a better position to assess services of airlines. PIA may be having 60% share, not because of service but because of number of flights to domestic destinations per day. I also use PIA when i want to have a fall back. 

Emirates flies at least 6 flights a day from Pakistan to DXB. It has a large business class and is always full. I preferred PIA while travelling to Dubai and till they had Business class on that route, I used to be the only revenue passenger both ways. One or two co travelers on the same class were either PIA people moving on duty or people obliged. Finally, they shut down their business class operation to Dubai. If the airline is so good at its service why Emirates is taking loads of premium passengers and PIA had to cease its premium operation. Not only Emirates but Etihad is also taking full load up and down of premium passengers. PIA is relying on only passengers from Bangladesh, whose main concern is the cost. It is a point to ponder that people are ready to pay foreign airlines higher price against PIAs 15% lower cost. Lets not remain fools paradise and accept that PIA has dug up its own grave by its own people.



imiakhtar said:


> I disagree.
> If PIA had followed your suggestion 10 years ago then they would have been in with a chance in those markets (Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Italy, France, Denmark, Japan, China, Malaysia, Bangkok, Hong-Kong).
> Now PIA needs to downsize (network wise), pull out of those markets and follow the old MD's suggestion of code-sharing to those EU destinations with Turkish Airlines.


It is never too late for entering in a market. Though the later you join the run more difficult it is. However, a prudent strategic plan can lead to success. Qatar came up with revamp plan long after Emirates. So did Thai and Etihad. They are capturing market. Air Arabia and Fly Dubai came much later, yet they are capturing market. Code sharing is in fact slow poisoning, which will ultimately kill. In code sharing the aircraft used are of the other airline and people are blind. Once they will use PIA second time they will go to source. One day the airline which has taken the market share in the name of PIA will cancel code sharing agreement. Where will PIA stand then.

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## imiakhtar

Panther 57 said:


> Code sharing is in fact slow poisoning,



If it was a pill, why are the ME3 QR, EY and to a lesser extent EK utilising codeshares to strengthen their networks and give their customers greater options?

eg, Etihad Code-Share With JetBlue Opens Up Flights Beyond New York - Bloomberg

Qatar Airways Announces Expanded Codeshare Agreement With US Airways -- WASHINGTON, Dec.16, 2013 /PRNewswire/ --

BA starts Qatar Airways codeshare | News | Travel Trade Gazette

JetBlue | Investor relations | Press Releases



Panther 57 said:


> So did Thai



Not sure why you keep bringing Thai Airways into this. Thai like PIA is not growing but failing miserably:

http://thai.listedcompany.com/misc/ar/20140410-THAI-AR2013-EN.pdf

Thai Airways expects further losses in 2014 due to unrest| Reuters

UPDATE 1-Thai Airways reports third successive quarterly loss| Reuters

Thai Airways confirms heavy loss | News | Travel Trade Gazette



Panther 57 said:


> It is a point to ponder that people are ready to pay foreign airlines higher price against PIAs 15% lower cost.



Another fallacy that PIA is cheaper. It isn't. A quick glance at one of their better intl destinations Manchester shows the following options and prices for the second week of June return:

Qatar:£448
Emirates: £468
PIA: £480
Etihad: £483


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## Panther 57

imiakhtar said:


> If it was a pill, why are the ME3 QR, EY and to a lesser extent EK utilising codeshares to strengthen their networks and give their customers greater options?


Exactly, emirates is strengthening their network. most of the places Emirates is operating its aircraft and only those infrequent destinations where passenger load is less, they give it to other airlines. Code sharing is done to increase customer network rather then transferring customers to other airlines.



imiakhtar said:


> Another fallacy that PIA is cheaper. It isn't. A quick glance at one of their better intl destinations Manchester shows the following options and prices for the second week of June return:


you are stuck with Manchester have look at more frequent flown destinations..


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## imiakhtar

Panther 57 said:


> Emirates is operating its aircraft and only those infrequent destinations where passenger load is less, they give it to other airlines.



Which is precisely my point. PIA should drop their service to the smaller markets and utilise codeshares to those dropped markets with airlines (Turkish for example serves 5+ cities in Germany) that have the network and fleet to serve them.

In the EU, LHR, BHX and MAN are by far the biggest markets for PIA. When PIA was operating the A310 into Amsterdam their load factors were averaging 60%. It was/is a similar story for other non-UK cities in the EU.



Panther 57 said:


> you are stuck with Manchester have look at more frequent flown destinations



Fine. Dubai to Karachi return in June. PIA prices 1500-2000AED (some flights requiring transfer in LHE), Qatar £189, Gulf £200 and Emirates £220. Doesn't seem far cheaper to me.


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## Panther 57

imiakhtar said:


> Which is precisely my point. PIA should drop their service to the smaller markets and utilise codeshares to those dropped markets with airlines (Turkish for example serves 5+ cities in Germany) that have the network and fleet to serve them.
> 
> In the EU, LHR, BHX and MAN are by far the biggest markets for PIA. When PIA was operating the A310 into Amsterdam their load factors were averaging 60%. It was/is a similar story for other non-UK cities in the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> Fine. Dubai to Karachi return in June. PIA prices 1500-2000AED (some flights requiring transfer in LHE), Qatar £189, Gulf £200 and Emirates £220. Doesn't seem far cheaper to me.


I dont know from where you are taking this figure. I am travelling dubai almost every month.


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## imiakhtar

Panther 57 said:


> I am travelling dubai almost every month.



expedia, travelocity and piac.com.pk


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## Panther 57

imiakhtar said:


> expedia, travelocity and piac.com.pk


I expected that.


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## khanboy007

PIA to reintroduce VIP culture | Business Recorder

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has decided to reintroduce VIP culture in Airbus aircraft at the cost of inconvenience of economy class passengers. For several years now, all PIA aircraft, Airbus and Boeings which used to have club class were converted into all economy class seats much to the appreciation of travelling public.

The idea was to bring to an end VIP culture by abolishing class distinction and promoting sense of equality among the rich and the poor. The change probably did not find favour with ministers and VIPs and PIA unable to sustain their anger is reverting back to the old system.

Though reverting back to the old system will not bring any financial gains to the beleaguered PIA as most of the club class seats are usually booked by "free travellers" or are upgraded to accommodate influential people. *Undoubtedly, the change would cause inconvenience to the economy class passengers as the numbers of seats will be reduced from 193 to 183 which means that there will be less leg space and revenue passengers would find themselves badly squeezed.* Appeasing a few ministers and VIPs at the cost of vast majority of people who travel economy class is a bad decision indeed.

----------------------------------------------

enough is enough the space currently itself was too short and i had my face on my knees !!!!!
it was a horrible experience.....I hope they dont go ahead with this idea or* at least give sufficient leg room *


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## Panther 57

khanboy007 said:


> PIA to reintroduce VIP culture | Business Recorder
> 
> Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has decided to reintroduce VIP culture in Airbus aircraft at the cost of inconvenience of economy class passengers. For several years now, all PIA aircraft, Airbus and Boeings which used to have club class were converted into all economy class seats much to the appreciation of travelling public.
> 
> The idea was to bring to an end VIP culture by abolishing class distinction and promoting sense of equality among the rich and the poor. The change probably did not find favour with ministers and VIPs and PIA unable to sustain their anger is reverting back to the old system.
> 
> Though reverting back to the old system will not bring any financial gains to the beleaguered PIA as most of the club class seats are usually booked by "free travellers" or are upgraded to accommodate influential people. *Undoubtedly, the change would cause inconvenience to the economy class passengers as the numbers of seats will be reduced from 193 to 183 which means that there will be less leg space and revenue passengers would find themselves badly squeezed.* Appeasing a few ministers and VIPs at the cost of vast majority of people who travel economy class is a bad decision indeed.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------
> 
> enough is enough the space currently itself was too short and i had my face on my knees !!!!!
> it was a horrible experience.....I hope they dont go ahead with this idea or* at least give sufficient leg room *


They should because it is the premium class which brings them the profit. Yes I certainly disagree to gratis upgrading for untouchables. Those who pay should be given the benefit. One should bear in mind that premium class is more than twice economy. As regard spacing of seats in economy is concerned; again a yes, it should be adjusted to meet international requirement of 24".


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## khanboy007

Panther 57 said:


> They should because it is the premium class which brings them the profit. Yes I certainly disagree to gratis upgrading for untouchables. Those who pay should be given the benefit. One should bear in mind that premium class is more than twice economy. As regard spacing of seats in economy is concerned; again a yes, it should be adjusted to meet international requirement of 24".



dude minimum pitch is 28", it should be at least 30"

24 is like 4x the length of my mobile phone !!!!


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## razgriz19

This is our great Shaheen Airlines....


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## Edevelop

PIA has acquired this A320 from GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS) on dry lease for six years.

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## Edevelop




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## razgriz19

*Incident: PIA B772 at Karachi on Jul 11th 2014, engine shut down in flight*

By Simon Hradecky, created Saturday, Jul 12th 2014 20:26Z, last updated Saturday, Jul 12th 2014 20:26Z

A PIA Pakistan International Airlines Boeing 777-200, registration AP-BGL performing flight PK-787 from Karachi (Pakistan) to London Heathrow,EN (UK), was climbing out of Karachi's runway 25L when the crew stopped the climb at FL250 reporting the left hand engine (GE90) needed to be shut down due to engine oil depletion. The aircraft returned to Karachi for a safe landing on runway 25L about 90 minutes after departure.

A replacement Boeing 777-300 registration AP-BHV reached London with a delay of 3.5 hours.




 They can't even do a proper leak check!!


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## Khurram541

PIA accepts bids to acquire four A320s – The Express Tribune

news from today Express Tribune.....Good initiative in my opinion as PIA needs newer aircrafts...


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pretty sad to see the low quality planes being leased with no in flight entertainment on them


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## razgriz19

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Pretty sad to see the low quality planes being leased with no in flight entertainment on them



nobody puts in-flight entertainment on a single aisle aircraft!
Simple economics.


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## Al Bhatti

November 16, 2014

*Cancelled Peshawar flights rankle expats*
State-run carrier is the only airline repatriating bodies to Pakistan at no charge

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has stopped its service between Dubai and Peshawar, upsetting many Pakistani expats.

They said fares on rival airlines have risen.

In addition, state-owned PIA is the only airline that does not charge for repatriating bodies to Pakistan from the UAE.

The suspension means Pakistanis repatriating bodies to the Pakistani city of Peshawar now must pay thousands of dirhams on other airlines.

A senior PIA manager said the service was closed seven to 10 days ago following sustained losses on the sector.

Syed Ishaq Hussain — regional manager for UAE, CIS, Turkey and Africa — said it is possible the service may restart after deliberations by the Pakistan government.

“A few other sectors are also running at a loss, I was told by a PIA official who is high up in management. Why close Dubai-Peshawar and not others?” said Qayyum Shah, a Dubai-based logistics manager and president of Pakhtun Welfare Organisation in UAE.

“Every day PIA was repatriating two or three bodies to Peshawar without charging for it. They didn’t even charge for the passenger accompanying the body. Everyone appreciated that very much.

“But how will poor people send their deceased loved ones home for a burial now? It’ll be added distress to them.”

It costs roughly Dh8,000 to repatriate a body to Pakistan, according to a number of Pakistanis familiar with the arrangements.

Last week several Pakistanis from the Pashtun community, who are the majority community in Peshawar, met Pakistan diplomats in Abu Dhabi to discuss the closure.

There are an estimated 700,000 Pashtuns in the UAE.

“I think some people’s businesses will be affected by this. Their routine schedules and meetings will have to change because different airlines have different schedules. Of course, they will now be paying more for the trip as well,” said Salman Wisal, a UAE-based Pakistani businessman.

According to travellers, average fares for a one-way trip to Peshawar on other airlines have jumped from roughly Dh700 to more than Dh1,100.

That is significantly higher than PIA’s recent fares before the suspension — which ranged between Dh490 and Dh990 approximately.

Hussain acknowledges the Pashtun community was concerned, adding deliberations have been set in motion to address grievances.

“We met with some people and discussed their concerns. We’ve also spoken to the [PIA] head office. The Pakistan government had asked for feedback from the PIA, which we have sent to them. I’m hopeful the government will have instructions soon,” Hussain said.

The sector was not economically viable as only two weekly flights were operating before the suspension, he added. PIA had to cut its weekly flights after “rehabilitation” works at Dubai International Airport.

Moreover, flights to Peshawar had to go to Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad as the engineering and technical facilities for routine work on airplanes were not based in Peshawar. Flights had to return to Peshawar and then pick up Dubai-bound passengers.

“All of these factors were impacting the cost, which was running higher than the revenue for the sector. But as a national carrier, we should be there for Pakistanis. We were there to assist when they lost someone and needed to repatriate the body. This was a big service.

“We’ve sent papers to the PIA headquarters. They’re in touch with the aviation and financial authorities… If there was a way to absorb costs to some extent, and support and guidance from the government, I think we could come back.”

However, Hussain said any resumption of service should be “full force – three or four flights a week. We used to have an 80 per cent passenger load. In my view, two flights do not work on this sector under the present conditions.

“Other airlines will move in if we are not there and then it’s hard to get back in… Still, this is not a complicated issue. I am hopeful there will soon be an answer from the Pakistan government.”

PIA stops Dubai - Peshawar - Dubai service


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## imiakhtar

PIA is a business, not a taxi service.

Politicians and citizens of Pakistan need to heed this. 

Hopefully, other loss sustaining routes to the Mid-East, EU, Asia and North America (JFK) will be cut soon.


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## A.M.

imiakhtar said:


> PIA is a business, not a taxi service.
> 
> Politicians and citizens of Pakistan need to heed this.
> 
> Hopefully, other loss sustaining routes to the Mid-East, EU, Asia and North America (JFK) will be cut soon.


How is JFK a loss sustaining route? The plane is full every time i have been on it. How about cutting half of your employees?

Anyways, here is the picture of the new Islamabad airport.


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## VCheng

A.M. said:


> How is JFK a loss sustaining route? The plane is full every time i have been on it. How about cutting half of your employees?



How many of those passengers on the plane are actually generating revenue for PIA?


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## A.M.

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> How many of those passengers on the plane are actually generating revenue for PIA?


I've always paid

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## ACE OF THE AIR

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> How many of those passengers on the plane are actually generating revenue for PIA?





A.M. said:


> I've always paid



It is not that all passengers travel free and the PIA staff is far too many. It is the requirement to make a technical landing were all passenger and cargo along with the aircraft would require screening. It would have been far easier if the routes that PIA operated in the 80-90's were flown ie Karachi-Amsterdam-New York, Karachi - Frankfort- New York,Karachi-Paris-New York.

At that time there were 10flights a week to New York and 2 flights would also go to Torronto from New York and one weekly cargo flight to New York which flew from Karachi-Athens-Paris/Frankfort- New York.


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## VCheng

ACE OF THE AIR said:


> It is not that all passengers travel free and the PIA staff is far too many. It is the requirement to make a technical landing were all passenger and cargo along with the aircraft would require screening. It would have been far easier if the routes that PIA operated in the 80-90's were flown ie Karachi-Amsterdam-New York, Karachi - Frankfort- New York,Karachi-Paris-New York.
> 
> At that time there were 10flights a week to New York and 2 flights would also go to Torronto from New York and one weekly cargo flight to New York which flew from Karachi-Athens-Paris/Frankfort- New York.



Numbers don't lie. Employees per passenger and Revenue generated per passenger make PIA look horrible compared to its competitors.


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## imiakhtar

A.M. said:


> How is JFK a loss sustaining route? The plane is full every time i have been on it. How about cutting half of your employees?



Load factor (% of seats filled) is not a reliable indicator of how a route is performing.

As an example, British Airways had a load factor close to 95% for their London Heathrow-Dhaka flights, yet they were still losing money on the route and as a result they cancelled it.

New York - Pakistan is an even longer and more expensive flight (greater fuel fraction carried) which makes it more difficult to make money with the 777.

Lastly, I will add that Air India has higher load factors on India-USA flights than PIA does to the US, yet even they can't make money with the 777.

New York needs to be cut like Chicago and Houston before it.

If PIA can't fly daily to Toronto, then they should look at culling that too.


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## WishLivePak

imiakhtar said:


> Load factor (% of seats filled) is not a reliable indicator of how a route is performing.
> 
> As an example, British Airways had a load factor close to 95% for their London Heathrow-Dhaka flights, yet they were still losing money on the route and as a result they cancelled it.
> 
> New York - Pakistan is an even longer and more expensive flight (greater fuel fraction carried) which makes it more difficult to make money with the 777.
> 
> Lastly, I will add that Air India has higher load factors on India-USA flights than PIA does to the US, yet even they can't make money with the 777.
> 
> New York needs to be cut like Chicago and Houston before it.
> 
> If PIA can't fly daily to Toronto, then they should look at culling that too.


emirates does 777 from dubai to seattle. But their fares are quite expensive. So perhaps these airlines need to bump up airfares.

Also saudia costs some 900$ to pakistan (including stay and last year they did $700) but pia charges 1400. both use 777lr. Clearly there is something wrong.


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## imiakhtar

Emirates has vastly lower flying costs (the metric used in the industry is CASM or cost per average seat mile) than PIA.

Same for Saudia.

Besides, with Emirates, their 777s are configured in a 10 abreast 3-4-3 arrangement in economy compared to a 9 abreast 3-3-3 arrangement for PIA which further lowers their seat mile costs. Additionally, the fact that they devote less space to economy cabin means they can have larger premium cabins (business and first) which further help their margins



WishLivePak said:


> Also saudia costs some 900$ to pakistan (including stay and last year they did $700) but pia charges 1400. both use 777lr.



Saudia doesn't operate the LR.

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## WishLivePak

imiakhtar said:


> Emirates has vastly lower flying costs (the metric used in the industry is CASM or cost per average seat mile) than PIA.
> 
> Same for Saudia.
> 
> Besides, with Emirates, their 777s are configured in a 10 abreast 3-4-3 arrangement in economy compared to a 9 abreast 3-3-3 arrangement for PIA which further lowers their seat mile costs. Additionally, the fact that they devote less space to economy cabin means they can have larger premium cabins (business and first) which further help their margins
> 
> 
> 
> Saudia doesn't operate the LR.


777 nonetheless.

Well then PIA needs to use 10 abreast. Also PIA has 54 premium economy and cheaper business class than competitors, which is why some say it's frequently booked. But still, 900vs1400 direct flight, PIA needs to see why there is no profit


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## imiakhtar

The thing is, if PIA ups their prices to be in line with those of Qatar, Etihad, Emirates, Turkish et al, they have to have competitive offerings which they don't.

If you're flying to Pak, if the prices are the same are you going to put your family on a PIA flight or one of the competitors?

If we haven't got any oldies with us, my family always opts for the ME airlines.


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## WishLivePak

imiakhtar said:


> The thing is, if PIA ups their prices to be in line with those of Qatar, Etihad, Emirates, Turkish et al, they have to have competitive offerings which they don't.
> 
> If you're flying to Pak, if the prices are the same are you going to put your family on a PIA flight or one of the competitors?
> 
> If we haven't got any oldies with us, my family always opts for the ME airlines.


I'd go with PIA.

Food. Direct. Assuming both cost same. But this assuming it's nonstop. Domestic planes are constatnly late.

So ill do toronto dubai quetta with emirates and toronto islamabad with pia. If


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## imiakhtar

WishLivePak said:


> So ill do toronto dubai quetta with emirates



Emirates doesn't fly to Quetta.


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## WishLivePak

imiakhtar said:


> Emirates doesn't fly to Quetta.


just an example. Fine, replace with sialkot or peshawar.


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## Al Bhatti

October 2, 2014






Pakistani International Airlines aircraft taxi on a runway at the Allama Iqbal International Airport in Lahore.


*Pakistan International Airways could stand a chance at regaining former glory*

Twenty-nine years ago, Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) helped Emirates Airline get off the ground by lending it two planes, an Airbus A300 and a Boeing 737. At the time PIA was an established moneymaker and Emirates a four-plane fledgling. Since then the two carriers have flown in opposite directions, and now PIA is hoping that an Arabian Gulf airline such as Emirates will buy a stake in Pakistan’s ailing flag carrier.

Now the Pakistani government has a plan to put PIA on its feet and return it to profitability. It wants to split the company in two.

One unit, including assets such as ground handling and hotels, would be put into a holding company, and sold off gradually.

Meanwhile the airline unit would be hived off and sold to a foreign carrier. Last week the government’s privatisation leader, Mohammad Zubair Khan, mentioned Emirates Airline, Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways as possible buyers.

What has gone wrong with PIA in the past 30 years?

Mismanagement and rampant corruption have turned the airline into a white elephant, eating away the nation’s resources while posting a string of losses. With a debt burden of 276bn Pakistani rupees (Dh9.89bn), the once-prestigious carrier has become a perpetual drain on the national wallet.

In 1991, PIA posted its first loss because of the increase in fuel prices caused by the First Gulf War.

It last turned a profit in 1992, with record earnings of US$41 million on revenue of $880m.

By 2000 it was losing 11bn rupees a year. Since then, the airline’s financial health has progressively deteriorated.

The situation has reached alarming proportions. Financially and administratively, PIA has yet to tackle a plethora of problems and issues ranging from the erosion of its market position, a high fuel price, a burdened balance sheet and a ballooning debt-servicing bill to the ineffective marketing, open-sky policy, increased competition, brand damage, failure in hedging oil prices, use of old planes, overstaffing, ailing corporate culture, negative equity and organisational issues.

There are complaints of inefficiency and poor customer service. The airline has lost international stature. It no longer remains a competitive choice for tourists or business travellers, as they now prefer to travel by Emirates or Etihad.

PIA’s domestic and international flights are regularly cancelled. Pakistani media reported that a pilot delayed a New York-bound flight for more than two hours as he waited for a sandwich delivery. The poor performance and poor customer service is because of the lack of focus of PIA’s crew. Last week, a PIA air hostess was arrested in Italy after drugs were allegedly seized on her at the Milan airport. Last year, a PIA pilot was jailed in the United Kingdom for being three times over the alcohol limit before he was due to fly.

Long gone are the glory days.

PIA was Pakistan’s only airline for many years after its creation in 1955. It was the first Asian airline to operate a jet aircraft and Boeing 737 aircraft.

It is still the country’s largest airline, with 17,000 employees and a fleet of 36 aircraft – out of which 10 are grounded because of a lack of spare parts. The airline operates scheduled services to 23 domestic destinations and 30 international destinations in 27 countries across Asia, Europe and North America.

The airline is 85 per cent owned by the government, while an employees’ trust owns 8 per cent and the remained is traded on the country’s three stock exchanges.

Pakistan’s governments have manipulated PIA for political gain, giving jobs to so many supporters that the size of the workforce has become unsustainable. For example, the airline was overstaffed through appointments on political affiliation during Benazir Bhutto’s second term as prime minister (1993-1996). Under the military government of Pervez Musharraf in 2001, PIA had to deal with a ticket sales scandal costing the airline $45m a year. Successive governments did nothing but fatten the white elephant over the years through cash injections using the public’s money.

Because of the widespread corruption of its higher-ups, PIA signed controversial business deals involving kickbacks, according to the National Accountability Bureau.

In 2012, Transparency International Pakistan requested that the Chief Justice of Pakistan take notice of a host of issues prevalent in PIA such as purchase of aircraft for very high prices and a loss of 410m rupees suffered by the airline because of the cancellation of 1,200 flights between August and November in 2011.

A low point came three years ago. PIA had awarded a multibillion-dollar contract to a little-known Dubai company, Transworld Aviation, to supply spare parts. The company was unable to supply spare parts to PIA at a time when more than 109,000 Haj pilgrims were expected to travel with the airline in 2011, and PIA had to ground nine planes. The contract was cancelled only last year.

After coming into power for the third time last year following the victory of his party in elections, the prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, decided to privatise PIA because the cash-strapped government could not afford to bear a monthly loss of 3.3bn rupees.

Will privatisation redeem the old glory of the national airline? The decision to privatise PIA is opposed by the political parties in the opposition and it is likely to be challenged in the court.

What PIA direly needs is an operational and financial restructuring and ruthless accountability of the corrupt managers to improve its customer service and performance.

_Syed Fazl-e-Haider is a development analyst in Pakistan. His books include The Economic Development of Balochistan_

Pakistan International Airways could stand a chance at regaining former glory | The National


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## Donatello

imiakhtar said:


> The thing is, if PIA ups their prices to be in line with those of Qatar, Etihad, Emirates, Turkish et al, they have to have competitive offerings which they don't.
> 
> If you're flying to Pak, if the prices are the same are you going to put your family on a PIA flight or one of the competitors?
> 
> If we haven't got any oldies with us, my family always opts for the ME airlines.



Even if PIA gave 20% cheaper fares, me or anyone in my family won't fly it. It's not just the fare, but the whole experience for that 6-13 hours flight time. 
Bad food, missing blankets, non working screens, untidy lavatories and what not.

Not to mention their recent delays.


----------



## razgriz19

Incident: PIA B772 near Toronto on Dec 5th 2014, loss of cabin pressure

By Simon Hradecky, created Sunday, Dec 7th 2014 12:19Z, last updated Sunday, Dec 7th 2014 14:05Z


A PIA Pakistan International Airlines Boeing 777-200, registration AP-BGZ performing flight PK-782 from Toronto,ON (Canada) to Karachi (Pakistan), was enroute at FL330 about 220nm northeast of Toronto when the aircraft initiated an emergency descent to 10,000 feet due to the rapid loss of cabin pressure. The aircraft returned to Toronto for a safe landing about 2 hours after departure.

Following maintenance the aircraft departed again on Dec 7th but needed to return a second time, see Incident: PIA B772 near Toronto on Dec 7th 2014, cabin did not pressurize.

The loss of cabin pressure was the result of a malfunction of the pressure regulating shutoff valve. Following the second return the valve is now going to be replaced by PIA engineers flown to Toronto.


----------



## Hurter

Ghatiya a320


----------



## Appleya

Hello!



Are you interested in buying helicopters Mi-8T/Mi-8MTV/Mi-17?



Best regards,



Sergio


----------



## black-hawk_101

Appleya said:


> Hello!
> 
> 
> 
> Are you interested in buying helicopters Mi-8T/Mi-8MTV/Mi-17?
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Sergio


Are you selling?


----------



## Appleya

black-hawk_101 said:


> Are you selling?


Yep, I can


----------



## Appleya

black-hawk_101 said:


> Are you selling?


Are you a buyer?


----------



## black-hawk_101

Appleya said:


> Are you a buyer?


No.....


----------



## Appleya

black-hawk_101 said:


> No.....


hahaha)))


----------



## Devil Soul

*PIA to induct five more 320-A aircrafts in its fleet in January*
Sources said, PIA will obtain five more 320-A aircrafts on January 4 and it will induct them in its fleet. PIA has acquired these new aircrafts on lease for the period ranging between 5 to 7 years. National Airlines will appoint its own staff in these planes. PIA is also engaged in talks with different companies to obtain 777 Boeing planes on lease which are likely to be inducted in its fleet till March.

PIA holds total 35 planes and 27 among them are functional. Following the induction of new planes PIA service will be restored in those countries which have imposed ban on national airlines.


----------



## NaMaloom

They keep trying to induct new aircraft on wet-lease and this lease or that lease when they cannot even maintain the aircraft that they already possess. Just a few days ago, two PIA aircraft nearly collided head-on at Karachi's Jinnah Int'l Airport due to Air Traffic Control incompetence. All the folks appointed to top positions in the PIA are a sad joke with the main guy being a former PAF insider who was fired from the airforce after a disgraceful court martial. You think these type of people can run a huge organization such as the PIA? No way!


----------



## Interceptor

Quite dark times for PIA being leashed away by scum bag Air blue.


----------



## AsianLion

DOHA, Qatar – Qatar Airways today unveiled the launch dates of three new passenger destinations in Pakistan as part of the airline’s continued expansion strategy.

A day later, on 17th July 2015, Qatar Airways will add Faisalabad to its Pakistan network with three flights a week, and from 1st August 2015, Qatar Airways will spread its wings further in Pakistan with the launch of three flights a week to Multan.

Qatar Airways currently operates 45 flights a week spread across four cities in Pakistan – double daily flights to Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad, and three flights a week to Peshawar. Karachi was first launched by the airline in 1995, Peshawar in 1998, Lahore in 1999 and Islamabad in 2004.

Qatar Airways Group Chief Executive, His Excellency Mr. Akbar Al Baker explained the importance of the new routes to Pakistan, saying: “We have had a well-established operation in Pakistan for many years, but have always been looking to expand more, and now thanks to new agreements in place between the relevant authorities, we will soon enjoy significantly greater capacity between Qatar and Pakistan.

*“Our passengers will be able to take advantage of an enhanced choice of destinations when we launch our operations to Faisalabad, Sialkot and Multan in Pakistan adding greater convenience for both business and leisure travellers.*

“With our state-of-the-art new home at *Doha new's Hamad International Airport *and its rapid and convenient connections, these three new routes offer a significantly enhanced offering for our passengers to and from Pakistan and we look forward to welcoming them onboard with our five-star service.”

F*aisalabad is Pakistan’s third largest city and has experienced rapid industrial development as it has nurtured itself into a major growth centre with high economic activity. Key markets in Qatar Airways’ route network for Faisalabad will include destinations in the Middle East and the Americas – Jeddah, Dubai, Muscat, Bahrain, Kuwait, New York, Washington, Chicago and Montreal.*

S*ialkot is a large economic hub as the city boasts of several manufacturing industries. It is the world's largest producer of hand-sewed footballs, with local factories manufacturing 40-60 million footballs a year, amounting to roughly 70% of the total world production. Europe, the Americas and the Middle East are important regions for travel to and from Sialkot and key destinations include London Heathrow, Manchester, Frankfurt, Istanbul, Rome, Dammam, Abu Dhabi and New York.*

As *a commercial and industrial centre Multan is very well connected with industrial hubs in the rest of the country through rail and air. The city is also an important agricultural centre as it is home to a wide variety of crops and livestock. Qatar Airways’ key destination markets to Multan include routes in the Middle East and North America.*

*Qatar Airways will operate an Airbus A320 in a two-class configuration of up to 12 seats in Business Class and up to 132 in Economy Class on all the new routes to Pakistan.

With five new destinations on the horizon (Amsterdam, Durban, Faisalabad, Sialkot and Multan), Qatar Airways will increase its global portfolio to 151 destinations across Europe, Asia Pacific, the Middle East, Africa, North America and South America. The carrier currently operates a modern fleet of 149 aircraft.*

*The Doha – Sialkot schedules starting from 16th July 2015 are:

Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays
Depart Doha QR 626 at 01:10, arrive Sialkot at 06:50
Depart Sialkot QR 627 at 08:35, arrive Doha at 10:15

The Doha – Faisalabad schedules starting from 17th July 2015 are:

Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays
Depart Doha QR 624 at 01:10, arrive Faisalabad at 06:35
Depart Faisalabad QR 625 at 09:45, arrive Doha at 11:15

The Doha – Multan schedules starting from 1st August 2015 are:

Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays
Depart Doha QR 618 at 01:10, arrive Multan at 06:25
Depart Multan QR 619 at 09:35, arrive Doha at 11:05*


----------



## Muhammad Omar

*Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad airports to be outsourced*
*
ISLAMABAD: Three large airports of Pakistan — Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad — will be outsourced as per the new National Aviation Policy-2015.
*
The policy prepared under the directives of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, by his Special Assistant Captain Shujaat Azeem and Federal Secretary Aviation Division Muhammad Ali Gardezi with the consultation of all the stakeholders will be announced tomorrow (Friday) in Islamabad.

The News has learnt the salient features of the new National Aviation Policy. These are that the investment in the aviation sector of the country will be exempted from tax. However, tax will be levied on revenues. An SRO in this regard will be included in the Finance Bill for the financial year 2015-2016.

First, the Lahore International Airport will be outsourced through a transparent process. An Open Sky Policy will be maintained but on a reciprocal basis. The Northern Sector’s airports of Gilgit, Skardu and Chitral will be outsourced to the private sector for the promotion of management tourism.

Two cargo villages will be set up in north and west for export of Pakistani fruits and vegetables. It has been decided to increase paid investment for airline operators from Rs100 million to Rs500 million. Chief operating officers will be deputed to airports.


----------



## Muhammad Omar

*Turkish airlines to start daily flights to Lahore after caa aproval*
Turkish Airlines gala dinner and award ceremony
LAHORE (PR): Turkish Airlines Lahore Branch has celebrated gala dinner and award ceremony with Punjab travel agents and tours operator at a local hotel.
On the occasion, Besim Perolli, General Manager for Turkish Airlines Lahore, has announced that Turkish Airlines will start operating daily flight from Lahore soon as it has received approval by the federal government. “We would like to congratulate everyone who contributed to increase the Turkish airline BSP sales in Punjab region” Besim Perolli said.
One of the world’s leading airlines having a consistently expanding network; it has received several “Passenger Choice Awards” from Airline Passenger Experience Association (APEX). In 2014, Turkish Airlines, for the fourth consecutive year, was named “Best Airline in Europe” by Skytrax.
*The winner of the “World’s Best Economy Class On-Board Catering” award in 2014, Turkish Airlines was also the recipient of the Skytrax“Best Business Class Catering” award in 2014.
Turkish Airlines flies to more countries in the world than any other airline (110 countries over five continents). The global airline won the SkyTrax Award, known as the “Passengers Choice Awards,” for the “Best Airline in Southern Europe” consistently in 2009, 2010, 2011 2012 and 2013. In 2012, Skytrax named Turkish Airlines “Best Premium Economy Seats in the world” for its Comfort Class seats

_*Air Arabia launch four weekly Multan service from 1st May*_

G9-541
SHJ - MUX
Fri, Sun, Mon & Wed
Dep Sharjah: 4:45 AM
Arr Multan: 8:20 AM

G9-542
MUX - SHJ
Fri, Sun, Mon & Wed
Dep Multan: 9:00 AM
Arr Sharjah: 10:50 AM

*Chinese firms ready to invest in PIA for improving its performance*


*Qiao says Pakistan need to improve its transportation facilities, airport facilities*

*March 25, 2015*

*ISLAMABAD –* A number of leading Chinese firms have shown their interest to invest in Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) and Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) to improve facilities for the passengers and increase the number of flights to connect Pakistan with all over the world.

Pakistan just need some improvement in its transportation facilities, reservation system, airport facilities and technical know-how to get more destinations and enhance number of passengers through PIA, said Chinese company Sibol China Limited Managing Director Qiao Song while talking to APP here on Wednesday.

He is in Pakistan to look into prospects of joint venture with the PIA by Chinese firms. He said that Pakistan was situated at a very important geographical area and the PIA could take full advantage from this geographical situation to link the world. Qiao Song said that the PIA could also linked to about ten cities of China and these flights could go further to other destinations taking the advantage of close and strong ties of Pakistan and China.

He said that presently there were only three destinations which were being connected between Pakistan and China while these flights can be extended to ten cities to cater more business for the PIA. He said ticketing and reservation system of the PIA need to be improved so that it can be accessed from anywhere in the world for booking and checking the status of their booking.

Regrading problem of Union in PIA, he said that the union was not a problem for improving the PIA facilities as workers' union always very important segment of the organisation and helpful in implementing the policies of the administration. Sibol China Limited Chairman Yang Shu while giving his opinion said there were many Chinese companies already working in Pakistan and due to strong bilateral relations, there are very bright chances that more Chinese firms could come here to invest in various sectors especially in airline industry.

He said that some Chinese companies have already doing business and interacting with leading airline manufacturing companies including Boeing Company therefore, they can use their experience for transfer of technology to the staff of the PIA. Yang Shu said that maintenance of the aircraft and addition of new aircraft are very important and many Chinese firms are ready to help, assist and provide financial assistance to Pakistan in this regard.

Global Industrial Solution Chairman Mian Zia who had been doing business in China for last 25 years very successfully and motivating the new Chinese companies to invest and do business in Pakistan, while talking to APP said that there were wide scope for joint venture with many Chinese companies in different areas. He said aviation industry of Pakistan need some assistance, technical help and modern training to improve its standard equal to the world and Chinese Company Sibol China Limited is ready to invest in this sector.

He said that joint training programme with the cooperation from international standard institutions, the present workers of the PIA would be made more productive and useful segments for the airline to make it more progressive, energetic and profit making institution. Mian Zia said a group of experienced aviation industrial experts from China backed by world leading financial institutions, original equipments manufactured with business focus on new merging economic regions are interested to invest in Pakistan.

He said that an international logistic hub can be build in Pakistan including an international airport, an international seaport, regional railway and domestic tracking, ground network to connect regional economic centers with Asia, Africa, Middle East, Europe and America. Zia said that the newly build international hub, preferably in Gwadar will be used as a strategic global logistic distribution center for Eastern and Southern Asian countries and Ocean countries to connect effectively with Middle Eastern countries with extended linkage to Europe, North and South American countries.


----------



## Muhammad Omar

*
Airblue‬ launched its new operation connecting Sialkot with ‪‎Riyadh
*


----------



## Muhammad Omar

*KARACHI: Prime Minister’s Special Assistant on Aviation Shujaat Azeem has said that the government does not plan to privatise airports and, instead, multinational companies were being approached to uplift the flagging aviation industry.*

“We are involving the private sector into projects like parking lots, restaurants and shops, which are already outsourced. But, this time we will bring in reputable multinational firms to manage these,” he said, a day after union of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) protested over alleged privatisation of airports.

CAA’s Collective Bargaining Agent (CBA) on Monday threatened to suspend operations at leading airports if government took steps to hand over airports to private managers.



It also asked the Aviation Division to do away with a proposal to move the headquarters of CAA to Islamabad from Karachi.

Azeem says shifting is aimed at strengthening coordination between various departments to expedite renovation of airports and does not involve key departments like regulatory affairs.

“We are only moving the department related to works. We are moving fast on renovation of airports in north like the one in Faisalabad,” he said.

He also referred to reports about transfer of CAA Training Institute, which is located in Hyderabad, to Islamabad.

The Aviation Division has come under scathing criticism for spending Rs9 billion on Multan International Airport without taking into account its low aircraft traffic.

But Azeem said that was a misconception. Authorities have asked all domestic airlines to start operations from Multan. “We want to make Multan a hub in south Punjab.”


----------



## Muhammad Omar

*Airbus A-320 joins PIA fleet*


----------



## AsifIjaz

PIA to acquire 12 planes on dry lease | ePaper | DAWN.COM

PIA to acquire 12 aircraft on lease.


----------



## nvidia

*Airline steward jailed for five years after trying to smuggle fake passports in his underpants



* 
Man jailed for trying to smuggle passports in underpants. Photo: PA
An air steward who tried to smuggle fake passports into the UK by hiding them in his underpants has been sentenced to five years in prison.
Shaukat Ali Cheema, a senior air steward for Pakistan International Airlines, had 26 passports, 37 biodata passport pages and 13 driving licences hidden in his briefs when Border Force officers arrested him as he passed through customs at Birmingham Airport on 22 March.
The documents were concealed within special pockets and compartments sewn into the pants.




Some of the fake passports found in specially adapted underpants Credit: PA
The investigation was passed to the National Crime Agency's Border Policing Command, who charged Cheema with seven counts of possessing false identity documents with improper intention.
Cheema, who had 40 years service with the airline, pleaded guilty and was sentenced at Birmingham Crown Court.
Dawn Cartwright, from the National Crime Agency's Border Policing Command, said:
The passports and driving licences that Cheema attempted to smuggle in his pants were intended for people across Europe and beyond: Italy, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and Pakistan.
Fake documents are a serious concern for law enforcement. Those driving licences could have ended up in the hands of people who weren't qualified, or safe, to drive.
And more generally, fake and fraudulently obtained documents helps criminals to avoid law enforcement detection and carry on in their criminality.
We continue to work together with Border Force to make sure those who try to make life easy for criminals are intercepted and brought to justice.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Muhammad Omar

KHI Jinnah to get 18 new glass boarding bridges




Engineering firm Adelte has signed a contract with the Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority (PCAA) to improve boarding operations at Jinnah International Airport, near Karachi in Pakistan.

The contract includes the dismantling and disposal of 12 old passenger-boarding bridges (PBBs) and the design, manufacture and installation of 18 new electromechanical glass-sided Apron Drive models, along with 12 walkways and 30 rooftops.

Adelte will also provide 12 innovative Zephir preconditioned air units (45T and 90T) from its ground support equipment range. The new equipment will serve a wide range of aircraft, adapting to the current and future needs of airlines operating at the airport.

Jordi Floreta, vice-president and commercial director at Adelte, said, “Pakistan is a growing market where we already have experience providing airport equipment. The PCAA is very demanding and is willing to modernize its airport infrastructure and enhance operations with Adelte’s high quality technology, products and services. We are very confident that this contract will consolidate a long term relationship.”


May 26, 2015
http://www.passengerterminaltoday.co...p?NewsID=69399


ADELTE - The Boarding Company


----------



## Al Bhatti

May 31, 2015





Quetta joins Karachi, Peshawar, Sialkot, Lahore, Islamabad and Multan by direct Air Arabia flights.

*Air Arabia expands Pakistan service*
*Will start flying to Quetta from June 17*

UAE’s budget carrier Air Arabia has added Pakistani city of Quetta to its list of destinations, making it the Sharjah-based carrier’s seventh destination in Pakistan.

“We now have seven of Pakistan's biggest cities covered with direct services from two airports in the UAE and we hope to add more in the future as part of our ongoing commitment to serve the country,” said Adel A. Ali, Group CEO of Air Arabia.

Quetta services will commence on Wednesday, June 17, 2015.

Quetta joins Karachi, Peshawar, Sialkot, Lahore, Islamabad and Multan as Pakistani cities served by direct Air Arabia flights from Sharjah and Ras Al Khaimah airports.

On May 21, another UAE carrier, Flydubai, announced direct flights to Quetta in Pakistan from June 11, 2015, with three flights a week.

Air Arabia expands Pakistan service - Emirates 24|7


----------



## Muhammad Omar

*Round-the-clock watch: Lahore airport gets new security system *

ISLAMABAD: 
Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif launched the country’s first integrated security system at Allama Iqbal International Airport in Lahore on Monday.

Maj-Gen Sohail Ahmed, director-general of the Airport Security Force, briefed the premier about the system and said that it would help ensure better security of the premises, the aircraft and the passengers.

It took the National Engineering and Scientific Commission of Pakistan (NESCOM) four months to build the Rs400 million high-tech control room at one-sixth of the cost of an imported security system, the DG added.

He said the control room would operate round-the-clock to monitor any suspicious activity or movement and alert the airport authorities. “The system is capable of monitoring the area within a radius of one-kilometre in pitch-darkness.”

The control room has been hooked up to the Pakistan Army and the security agencies. One hundred and forty-four cameras installed across the airport, with 350 LED lamps for better results, would transmit images to 17 monitoring screens in the control room.

DG Ahmed said the system had been on test run since February 24. “It is the first airport security system to be produced indigenously. This system is also being used in China.”

Appreciating the quality of the security system, PM Nawaz said the expansion of the Lahore airport should be done in a meaningful manner, keeping in view the expected increase in the number of passengers and air traffic in the next 10-15 years.

He termed the infrastructure an asset for the country and said the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor would impact all national sectors and generate economic activity.

Capt (retd) Shujaat Azeem, the premier’s adviser on aviation, also briefed Nawaz on the measures taken for improving the facilities for the passengers.

Azeem said that since last January, 14 new aircraft had been added to the fleet of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) and nine more would be included by the year-end. “This is the first time that the PIA has inducted such a large number of planes in such a short period of time.” The projected fleet size by year-end is 44, with an average fleet age of nine years, he added.

Published in The Express Tribune, June 9th, 2015.

*Emirates announces service to Multan*


*Airline to launch its sixth destination in Pakistan on August 1*

*PUBLISHED:*16:40 JUNE 9, 2015

*Gulf News*

STAFF REPORT

Dubai: *Emirates, on Tuesday announced its plans to launch services to Multan, Pakistan, beginning 1st August, 2015.*

Service to Multan, Pakistan’s 5th largest city by population, will commence with four weekly flights operated by a Boeing 777-300 in a two-class configuration — 54 seats in Business Class and 310 in Economy Class. The aircraft can carry up to 23 tonnes of cargo, opening up many more trade opportunities in the region.

Multan is one of the world’s oldest cities with a rich history as a cultural and trade hub. Located on the banks of the Chenab River in the Punjab province of Pakistan, Multan is famous for agricultural products such as wheat, cotton, sugar cane, mangoes, citrus, guavas, and pomegranates.

Multan is also a commercial and industrial centre, well connected with other industrial hubs such as Lahore, Karachi, Gujranwala, Quetta and Faisalabad. The major industries in Multan include fertiliser, cosmetics, glass manufacturing, cotton production and processing, large textile units, flour mills, sugar, and oil mills. Exports from the region include traditional Multani shoes, embroidery on dresses for women and men, furniture, wooden products, pottery, camel-skin ware, surgical instruments and carpets.



*flydubai touches down in Quetta*
By Wam 
Published Thursday, June 11, 2015
http://www.emirates247.com/business/...06-11-1.593491






Dubai-based flydubai’s inaugural flight to Quetta landed today and was greeted by a traditional water cannon salute. The flight marks the start of a direct air link between Dubai and flydubai’s fourth destination in Pakistan.

Receiving the aircraft was the Governor Balochistan, Muhammad Khan Achakzai along with senior airport and government officials.

flydubai first began flights to Pakistan in 2010 to Karachi, flydubai’s 20th destination on its network which has now grown to over 90 points. In 2013, flights to Sialkot and Multan were launched and the air carrier now operates 27 flights a week to Pakistan. flydubai has announced 16 destinations this year.


*CAA issues tender for expansion and renovation of Quetta Airport - new lounges with boarding bridges coming soon.*








*flydubai takes off to fifth destination in Pakistan*

Published June 15th, 2015 - 11:58 GMT


Dubai-based carrier flydubai announced today direct daily flights to Faisalabad, the 3rd largest city in Pakistan, together with an increase in the frequency of the airline’s flights to Pakistan, doubling the size of its network in the country. 

*The daily service to Faisalabad will commence on 10 July-2015 increasing to nine flights per week from 03 August-2015. From 10 July-2015 flydubai will also increase the frequency of its flights to Karachi up to 28 flights per week, to Multan up to nine flights per week and starting from 13 July-2015 to Sialkot up to eight flights per week. *

The airline started flying to Pakistan five years ago in June 2010 and with the launch of flights to Faisalabad brings the number of weekly flights to all points in Pakistan to 57. 

Commenting on the newest route announcement, Ghaith Al Ghaith, Chief Executive Officer of flydubai, said: “Since the launch of our first flight to Pakistan in 2010 we continue to see growing demand in the region for direct flights to Dubai and onwards. Our aviation hub in Dubai serves as a gateway to more than 250 international destinations available through our interline agreements and we will continue to connect previously under served markets.” 

Faisalabad becomes the 16th destination to join the flydubai network since the start of 2015. The air carrier’s extensive network includes over 90 destinations within a 6 hour flying radius from Dubai and includes business and leisure destinations in Africa, Central Asia, Caucasus, Eastern Europe, the GCC and Middle East, Russia and the Subcontinent. flydubai operates a fleet of new 48 Next-Generation Boeing 737-800 aircraft with an average age of around 3.1 years.

“With the start of flights to Faisalabad and the increase in flights across our network in Pakistan we remain committed to providing our passengers with the best service and convenient and affordable travel options,” said Sudhir Sreedharan, Senior Vice President, Commercial (GCC, Subcontinent, Africa) at flydubai.


*Sialkot Exporters planning to launch own airline: SCCI*


*Reported by:*Customs Today Report June 19, 2015


*SIALKOT:* Local business community of Sialkot is actively considering over launching its own airline in future.

This was said by President Sialkot Chamber of Commerce and Industry (SCCI) Fazal Jilani while talking to APP on Friday.

He said the name of airline would be *“Iqbal Air”* and initial work on the mega project was in progress, adding that exporters and manufactures were taking keen interest in the proposed project.

*Fazal said Iqbal Air hopefully would be operational in mid of the next year which will touch different countries and it will open a new era of development and prosperity as well as generate employment opportunities.*

The SCCI president said the business community of Sialkot will demonstrate great passion in launching of Iqbal Air to cope with their demands.


----------



## Muhammad Omar

*Emirates Airline to strengthen their operations in Pakistan by starting air cargo to Multan International Airport*


*Emirates airline is one of the world’s busiest airlines and the subsidiary of The Emirates Group has announced to start its air cargo to Multan, the city of saints.*


Emirates as a global connector, has announced to launch its service to Multan International Airport Pakistan from August 01, 2015, which will help local exporters to send their cargo to any of 78 countries in the world where Emirates airline operates. Initially it will start with Boeing 777-300, four flights per week.

Multan is fifth major city of Pakistan by population and world’s oldest city as an antiquity, cultural and business hub. This major city is famous for many products such as wheat, cotton, sugarcane and especially mangoes. To open the trade opportunities in the origin, the airline could carry 23 tonnes of cargo.

According to the airline officials, flights will be leaving Dubai International (DXB) at 1820h on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Saturdays. These flights will be arriving at Multan International Airport (MUX) at 2200h.

Emirates has also announced the return timings of the flights that on the same days of the week. The flights will return to Dubai at 2330h and arrive at Dubai International with almost 23 tonnes of cargo at 0120h. The cargo capacity for each way has been bar at 23 tonnes. The airline says that it was their long awaited dream to start their operations from the spiritual city of Punjab province. Airline will proudly cargo pottery, surgical equipment, vegetables and fruit from Multan to the world.

Senior vice president of Emirates commercial operations in West Asia is pleased to announce the two more cities from Pakistan for cargo operations. He said that Pakistan now has become the fourth highly served country in the world by Emirates Airlines. It has 80 return flights every week, operating between Pakistan and Dubai then to the entire world.


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## Jango

Not only cargo, passenger ops as well.


----------



## Shahzad Akram

PIA Kick out to all who hold a fake degree - something good in PIA at-last


----------



## Muhammad Omar

*Etihad Airways and Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) have signed a codeshare agreement which will provide travelers with enhanced connections between the United Arab Emirates, Pakistan, and beyond.*


Etihad Airways will place its EY code on PIA flights between Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore, Peshawar and Abu Dhabi.

In return, PIA’s PK code will be placed on Etihad Airways’ flights between Abu Dhabi and Islamabad, Karachi, and Lahore and PK code will also be added to Etihad Airways’ flights from Abu Dhabi to many of the global destinations operated by Etihad Airways. 

Flights can be booked from 30 June 2015 via travel agents or through the airlines’ sales offices and contact centers. The first travel date will be 27 July 2015. This will facilitate travelers with a choice of more than 70 destinations.

Kevin Knight, Etihad Airways’ Chief Strategy and Planning Officer, said: “Our unique partner strategy has been highly successful and we are pleased to add Pakistan International Airlines to our growing list of successful code share partners.

“There is a long and proud history of travel between Abu Dhabi and cities across Pakistan, and this new codeshare agreement – between the national airlines of the UAE and Pakistan – will make that experience, as well as travel onwards to Africa, Europe, and the United States, that much easier.”

Khurram Mushtaq, Director Marketing of Pakistan International Airlines, said: “This is indeed a great opportunity for PIA to join hands with Etihad Airways, connecting Pakistan to UAE and around the globe, expanding reach to more destinations for the convenience of valued passengers.”

Etihad Airways and PIA are also exploring options to offer members of their respective frequent flyer programs, Etihad Guest and Awards+Plus, reciprocal earn and burn for miles when using codeshare flights.

All passengers flying on Etihad Airways flights from Abu Dhabi to the United States are processed through the US Preclearance facility at Abu Dhabi Airport, which means they pass through all US immigration and customs checks in Abu Dhabi and arrive in the US as domestic passengers.


----------



## nvidia

*The ‘royal wedding’ that cost PIA passengers heavily*

LAHORE (Staff Report) – Passengers of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) protested against 17-hour delay of New York to Lahore bound flight, which was caused due to wedding of the prime minister’s grand daughter in Jeddah.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s grand daughter and Maryam Nawaz’s daughter, Mahnoor Safdar was married in Jeddah, but the PIA passengers had to bear the brunt of this wedding.

New York to Lahore bound flight got delayed for 17 hours because the prime minister’s relatives were flown to attend his grand daughter’s wedding in Jeddah, revealed the flight’s cabin crew.

Passengers protested at the New York airport against the delay in PIA flight PK-722. The flight was suppose to take off from the New York airport at 9am Eastern Standard Time (EST) on July 14, but the passengers were informed that due to unavoidable reasons, the flight will be delayed for 13 hours and the plane will take off at 10:45pm EST.

Passengers came to the airport at the given time to find out the flight was further delayed for two hours. The flight finally took off at 2:30am EST with the delay of 17 hours. PIA officials did not provide any reasons for the delay.

On boarding, already frustrated passengers found PIA crew had failed to clean the plane after the last flight. They protested against the irresponsible and callous attitude of the crew, but to no avail.

After transporting ‘special guests’ of the prime minister to Jeddah, Flight PK-722 flew to New York without any passengers, which resulted in the loss of revenue.


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## Muhammad Omar




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## SHAMK9

PIA will induct 3 ex-Kenya Airways 777-300ers and 2 ex-Vietnam Airlines 777-200ers

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## Muhammad Omar




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## Muhammad Omar

*Pakistan International's Recent Induction In their Fleet a 777-200 AP-BMG Was Recently Leased From Vietnam , Has Been Successfully Repainted To Pakistan International's Retro 1960's
Livery.*






















PIA induct leased Vietnam Airlines Boeing 777 enters karachi isphani hanger for repaint job

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## Indus Falcon

Muhammad Omar said:


>


I honestly doubt the on time departure.


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## Muhammad Omar

Indus Falcon said:


> I honestly doubt the on time departure.



I think thori choorne ki ijazat hai....

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## Muhammad Omar

*Gulf Air Inaugural Flight From Faisalabad *


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## Muhammad Omar

*PIA Airline Faisalabad to Medina Inaugural Flight*


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## Muhammad Omar

*Expansion and Up-gradation of Faisalabad Airport Stone Laid*


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## fatman17

PIA Super Constellation at Manchester Airport 1957


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## Muhammad Omar

Fleet By Carriers

Pakistan International = 38 + 7 orders
Airbus A310-300 (5)
Airbus A320-200 (11 + 2 orders)
ATR 42-500 (6)
ATR 72-500 (5)
Boeing 777-200ER (6)
Boeing 777-200LR (2)
Boeing 777-300ER (3 + 5 orders)

Shaheen Air = 21 + 6 orders
-Boeing 737-400 (10)
-Airbus A320-200 (8 + 2 orders)
-Airbus A330-300 (3)
-Airbus A330-200 (4 orders)

AirBlue = 8
Airbus A320-200 (3)
Airbus A321-200 (4)
Airbus A330-200 (1)

Air Indus = 3 
Boeing 737-300 (3)


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## imiakhtar

Muhammad Omar said:


> Boeing 777-300ER (3 + 5 orders)



As things stand, Boeing is holding deposits while PIA decides what to order. 777 delivery slots which would have resulted in deliveries starting August 2015 were given to other airlines.



Muhammad Omar said:


> AirBlue = 8
> Airbus A320-200 (3)
> Airbus A321-200 (4)
> Airbus A330-200 (1)



Only three A320 are on the PCAA register. The other aircraft are wet leased and operated by Ukrainian flight crews (Windrose).


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## ghazi52

....................................





......

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## Muhammad Omar




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## TheNoob

Funny that no one posts about Shaheen Airs incidents. lol


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## imiakhtar

TheNoob said:


> Funny that no one posts about Shaheen Airs incidents. lol



Accident: Shaheen B734 at Lahore on Nov 3rd 2015, runway excursion, both main gear collapsed

Accident: Shaheen B734 at Karachi on Apr 22nd 2012, left main gear collapse on landing

Incident: Shaheen B732 at Peshawar on Feb 8th 2010, went off runway

*​*There are more due to crew error but these are just the few reported on avherald​

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## Windjammer

Latest progress on the new Islamabad airport under construction.

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## Arsalan

Windjammer said:


> Latest progress on the new Islamabad airport under construction.



Can get over how we screwed up here. This is a prime example of how we don't give 5hit about people who are playing with our money and country. No one even bothered.


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## ghazi52




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## wiseone2

Muhammad Omar said:


> Fleet By Carriers
> 
> Pakistan International = 38 + 7 orders
> Airbus A310-300 (5)
> Airbus A320-200 (11 + 2 orders)
> ATR 42-500 (6)
> ATR 72-500 (5)
> Boeing 777-200ER (6)
> Boeing 777-200LR (2)
> Boeing 777-300ER (3 + 5 orders)
> 
> Shaheen Air = 21 + 6 orders
> -Boeing 737-400 (10)
> -Airbus A320-200 (8 + 2 orders)
> -Airbus A330-300 (3)
> -Airbus A330-200 (4 orders)
> 
> AirBlue = 8
> Airbus A320-200 (3)
> Airbus A321-200 (4)
> Airbus A330-200 (1)
> 
> Air Indus = 3
> Boeing 737-300 (3)



the age of the fleet would be give a better idea


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## fatman17

November, 2016.

REUTERS/LUCY NICHOLSON

By Alexander Cornwell | DUBAI

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) is evaluating an order for wide-body Airbus (AIR.PA) and Boeing (BA.N) jets as it looks to upgrade its ageing fleet, an executive for the state-owned airline said on Tuesday.

"Boeing 777X would be a good option," the airline's executive director of human resources and works, Raheel Ahmed, told reporters on the sidelines of a conference in Dubai, adding that PIA is also looking at the Airbus A330 and A350 models.

PIA would consider purchasing the aircraft directly from the manufacturer and financing the order through a sale and leaseback arrangement, when an airline sells a jet to a lessor who then leases it back. It would also consider a direct leasing agreement, known as a dry lease.

Ahmed did not say when PIA would order the jets or how many it could buy. It has a fleet of 38 narrow-body and wide-body Airbus and Boeing jets, with three A310s to be retired on Dec. 31, he added.

Ahmed also said PIA would cut its 18,000 workforce by between 3,000 and 3,500 employees by the end of 2017 as the Pakistan government looks to turn around the loss-making airline and sell-off a 49 percent stake.

However, PIA later said Ahmed's figures were incorrect, and no decision had as yet been taken on how many jobs would be cut or over what timeframe.

A meeting between Pakistan's Privatization Commission and PIA top management was also held on Tuesday, "to determine the best suitable restructuring model to make PIA into a viable entity," a senior government official who attended the meeting told Reuters.

The official said restructuring would be done in two phases, carving out non-essential units within three to six months "to attain a clean balance sheet," followed by the gradual carving out of other business units.

The airline would spin-off four "special business units" from January 2017, starting with its catering business and later its flight training, engineering and courier businesses.

The units are planned to operate independently of PIA with their own general managers and marketing teams. PIA would later look to sell a stake in the units if they are profitable.

(Additional reporting by Mehreen Zahra-Malik in Islamabad; Editing by Mark Potter and Alexander Smith)


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I feel it would be more sensible for PIA to go with Lease options on these assets that is the modern way for an organization to expand with in their limits

Canadian company Bombardier has the world most efficient fuel efficient plane
and makes Metro Solutions (Trains) all over europe

They need some $$ these days PIA might get some Discounts dealing with them







Top notch option

"World's most Fuel Efficient plane" for country like Pakistan such a plane is ideal for Local Markets






Game changer products this company makes


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## fatman17

New Islamabad Civil Airport


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## Aqsa Mateen

I heard in news of pilot who was suppose to land in lahore he landed in Oman, how I mean seriously how could pilot does that ?


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## razgriz19

Here is a question for those who are familiar with PIA operations...I'm sitting at Pearson Terminal and i noticed every single AC aircraft does single engine taxi. I thought it was only limited to Dash 8s, but i just saw a baby bus pull in with only no. 1 engine running.
Does PIA operate in the same manner to save cost?


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## GriffinsRule

Captain Mian Fazle Ghani - Pilot PIA/ Emirates Airline | Capt. Mian Fazle Ghani of Mardan/ Swabi was the pilot at the controls of Emirates' first flight in 1985. The plane was leased from Pakistan International... | By Qissa Khwani | Facebook


52K views, 417 likes, 46 loves, 52 comments, 967 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Qissa Khwani: Capt. Mian Fazle Ghani of Mardan/ Swabi was the pilot at the controls of Emirates' first flight in...




fb.watch





50 years of Emirates. How far has PAF fallen.


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## ghazi52

The Frontier Post


TEHRAN (IRNA):* Iran’s Civil Aviation Organization on Saturday banned all flights* from and to India and Pakistan due to the spread of new variant of COVID-19.

ICAO spokesman Mohammad Hassan Zibakhsh told IRNA that the decision was made by Iran’s Health Ministry and would be effective from Saturday midnight.
There are no routine flights between Iran and India and flights are operated occasionally, he said, however, connection flights are also prohibited.

Flights to and from 41 countries have already been prohibited by national ICAO and those who want to take flights from and to the countries listed as high risk are required to do coronavirus test in Iran, according to Zibakhsh.


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## ghazi52




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## lafete

What is this funny business about first PIA flight to Australia being prevented. THe permission was revoked last minute. This is crazy



https://simpleflying.com/pakistan-international-airlines-australia-flights-not-yet-approved/



Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) is keen to start flights to Australia - so keen the airline is in route launch mode before they've been granted permission to fly. Multiple media outlets are reporting flights between Lahore (LHE) and Sydney (SYD) will start in April, but PIA will need an air operator's certificate (AOC) to fly passengers in Australia before that happens.

PIA application to fly received but not yet granted​This week, PIA's General Manager of Corporate Communications Abdullah Hafeez told Australia's SBS Radio that the airline has applied to operate passenger flights to Australia. Australia's airline safety regular, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA), confirmed to Simple Flying an application was received from PIA on February 21 for a foreign air transport air operators certificate. A CASA spokesperson said.



> _"The application and subsequent safety assessment will be managed through the normal process applied to Foreign AOC holders seeking to conduct commercial air transport into/out of Australian territory._"


In the meantime, PIA has told CASA it will apply to operate a one-off flight to Sydney in April. That flight is coming up in PIA's April schedule but is not yet available for sale. PIA has timetabled PK9808 to depart LHE on a Friday evening for a lunchtime arrival in SYD the next day. The return flight, PK9809, departs SYD on Sunday evening for an early morning arrival in LHE.

Application for April flights yet to arrive at CASA​The problem is that many PIA watchers are taking these flights as a done deal - when that's not the case. Pakistan International Airlines has several obstacles to deal with before CASA green lights any flights in April. To start with, they need to lodge that non-scheduled flight application. A CASA spokesperson told Simple Flying on Tuesday.



> _"PIA has indicated it will apply to operate a non-scheduled flight to Sydney International Airport in April, and we will assess the airline's application when it is received."_


The safety regular clarifies a non-scheduled flight permission is a one-off approval where each proposed operation is subject to a safety assessment that specifically examines the foreign operator's assigned flight crew and airworthiness aspects of the particular aircraft being utilized.



> _"CASA has discretion on the number of non-scheduled flight permissions that may be issued to any foreign operator. PIA will also require approvals from the Department of Infrastructure and the Department of Home Affairs before it can operate a non-scheduled flight to Australia."_



PIA greenlight to fly not guaranteed​Given it's a matter of weeks until the presumed April flight, getting them off the ground may be a tall order. The Karachi-based airline has flown to Australia before. In 2020, PIA operated a repatriation flight between Melbourne and Lahore. But PIA remains a rare visitor to Australia. This surprises some, given the substantial Pakistani diaspora in Australia.

However, the scandal and accident plagued airline has a big reputation to live down. The European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) banned Pakistan International Airlines in 2020 after a scandal concerning fraudulent pilots' licenses. The FAA also takes a dim view of the airline. While EASA and FAA rulings don't dictate CASA decisions, it's fair to say they are highly influential.

A 2020 crash of a PIA Airbus A320 on approach at Karachi, which killed 98 people, won't help PIA's application to fly to Australia. While CASA won't necessarily knock PIA's application back, you could bet the house the safety regulator will go over the airline's recent performance with a fine-tooth comb - making the reports of an April start date for any PIA flights to Sydney wildly optimistic.

As for those proposed PIA scheduled passenger flights, CASA says it is still reviewing the application and indicates a decision may take a while. The agency's spokesperson added,



> _"The application is subject to a detailed safety assessment, and we are unable to say when the process will be completed."_


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## Catalystic

Flight bans still persist on PIA yet even after clearing international ICAO audit and checks……


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