# Who will Sikhs Support?



## aussie_1973

*Will Sikhs support and fight against India in case of all out war between India and Pakistan?*


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## SherdiL!

obiviously Pakistan i've talked to a couple of Sikhs in my school they want KHALISTAN that consider of 4 Sikhs opnion not the whole population of India so.


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## AliFarooq

They will support india, cuz currently they are part of india. 

another option might, if they help india they will have demands.


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## aussie_1973

Same here, I have met many Sikhs here in Australia and all of them are very much against Inida.


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## slugger

Indian Sikhs are *Indian*

For proof of this do check out our list of *COAS*, Lt. Gen, Maj Gen, and corresponding ranks in the air Force and Navy as also Coast Guard the BSF, the police force

*Our Sikh regiments and their involvement* are well documented and a source of immense pride and joy comfort for the citzens of *India*

The exploits of the *Sikh Light Infantary* are well-documented by those very sources quoted by members of Pakistan to support their statements here on this forum

To illustrate the faith that Indian have on a fellow Indian who follows the tenets of Sikhism - the incumbent Prime Minister of India *Dr. Manmohan Singh* is a Sikh. It i source of pride for the country that a perso as educated as *Dr. Singh* is heading the country

As for his contribution toward the cause of India's economic progress & development, his 92-93 liberalistaion policy recieved endorsement from yet another Nobel laureate *Joseph E. Stiglizt *who commended India'seffective and efficient policy of liberalisation [intiated by *Dr. Singh*]
*India didn't follow mindless liberalisation: Joseph Stiglitz*

Let me repeat it once more

Indian Sikh is an *Indian*

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## third eye

A stupid Q if there ever was one..

Contrary to what most here would like to feel, there is no doubt / ambiguity in anyone's mind on this issue. Opinions of school kids .. !!

Sikhs are as much a part of India as anyone else.


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## A.Rahman

I know lot of Sikhs over here who condemn India over Gujarat genocide and operation blue star, they wear shirts, which reads "never forget 1984".


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## aussie_1973

If all Sikhs are Indians then who was sant jarnail singh bhindranwale, Is he a Pakistani. Better open your eyes the Khalistan struggle is not ended just suspended for a while.
Just to open your eyes check this -Khalistan: The Interview of Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu at you tube and you will know.

* 



*

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## slugger

A.Rahman said:


> I know lot of Sikhs over here who condemn India over Gujarat genocide and operation blue star, they wear shirts, which reads "never forget 1984".


That riot was one a dastardly act by *anti-national Indian*s who took no consent of National sentiments before indulging in their own nefarious activities

These enemy of the state would be brough to justice. Indian investigative agencies are pursuing the case with dogged determination and justice shall be served to the country - *CBI team in US to trace Sikh riots case witnesses*

* The incident was a national sorrow*

Though I was nowhere on Earth when this took place, I am filled with great anger and sorrow hearing about this.


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## indiapakistanfriendship

> I know lot of Sikhs over here who condemn India over Gujarat genocide and operation blue star, they wear shirts, which reads "never forget 1984".



Sikhs who are Canadian citizens are Canadian citizens, Sikhs who are Australian citizens are Aussie citizens, so their saying does not have any bearing on the issue. In the same way many a expats have confused SL Tamils in Canada and Norway as Indian Tamils. 

Was there any war movie without a truban clad sikh.

IPF

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## indiapakistanfriendship

> A stupid Q if there ever was one..



sUCCINCTLY AND BRILLIANTLY PUT... I have never seen a populace so desperate and away from the touch of reality, today it is Sikhs and tommorow suddenly you shall find a thread with Tamils launching an assault and standing by Pakistan. It could also be you next day among these threads


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## aussie_1973

So you are trying to say that Sikhs are not demanding any separate home land for them. 
This guy *Bittu *is an Indian Citizen speaking on a Indian Channel.
Anybody there...

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## dr.rehan

slugger said:


> Indian Sikhs are *Indian*
> Let me repeat it once more
> 
> Indian Sikh is an *Indian*



Hmmm, why dont you tell that to the countless Sikhs i myself along with many others on this board have spoken with in past instead of making such a claim on this board where you have about 0 credibility being a sorry little  

I know they are indians.. But why do they happen to like us more then you ? That beats me.


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## A.Rahman

indiapakistanfriendship said:


> Sikhs who are Canadian citizens are Canadian citizens, Sikhs who are Australian citizens are Aussie citizens, so their saying does not have any bearing on the issue. In the same way many a expats have confused SL Tamils in Canada and Norway as Indian Tamils.
> 
> Was there any war movie without a truban clad sikh.
> 
> IPF



They are multi national Indian-Canadian


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## Kharian_Beast

Like many of our Indian friends have pointed out in many threads before, allegiances can change overnight.


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## A.Rahman

Kharian_Beast said:


> Like many of our Indian friends have pointed out in many threads before, allegiances can change overnight.



yes, I was just pointing out treatment of minority.

But weren't Sikhs in 1947 killing Muslims alongside with Hindus? This is how Allah serves justice


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## Zaheerkhan

I must say that the Sikhs of India are the most patriotic people. They are more patriotic about India than even Hindus, even the ex-army chief of India was a sikh..for God's sake, even the Prime Minister of India is a Sikh.

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## Kharian_Beast

A.Rahman said:


> yes, I was just pointing out treatment of minority.
> 
> But weren't Sikhs in 1947 killing Muslims alongside with Hindus? This is how Allah serves justice



Well, all the people involved in the killings of 1947 are long dead. Much more recent events occupy the minds of many Sikhs in India.


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## dr.rehan

Zaheerkhan said:


> I must say that the Sikhs of India are the most patriotic people. They are more patriotic about India than even Hindus, even the ex-army chief of India was a sikh..for God's sake, even the Prime Minister of India is a Sikh.




Good. So maybe Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale will get it the way he wanted...
Go figure...


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## slugger

aussie_1973 said:


> Just to open your eyes check this -Khalistan: The Interview of Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu at you tube and you will know.
> 
> * hmDfcEKL0as[/media] - Khalistan: The Interview of Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu*



What kind of a delusional time warp are Pakistani's living in...*Indian Sikhs supporting anti-India causes in 2008*

By the same logic you must give equal credibility to *Pakistani's issuing statement of decession of Balochistan and Sindh from Pakistan*



aussie_1973 said:


> If all Sikhs are Indians then who was sant jarnail singh bhindranwale, Is he a Pakistani.



What kind of a God-fearing Sikh makes the *sacred Golden Temple in Amritsar as his personel Armed fortress*



aussie_1973 said:


> Better open your eyes *the Khalistan struggle is not ended just suspended for a while.*


*You are absolutely correct*

*Suspended till eternity*

Any Pakistani [or *non-Indian Sikh* for that mattter], expecting a Khalistani terrorism revival in India...keep expecting. You expectations are of no concerns to India


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## dr.rehan

slugger said:


> Any Pakistani [or *non-Indian Sikh* for that mattter], expecting a Khalistani terrorism revival in India...keep expecting. You expectations are of no concerns to India



Haha.. Yeah, isent that why you are here to just state exactly that. That your not concerned. You fact twisting unlogic CPD!...


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## dr.rehan

Brother Paks.
Indians are experts at distorting the facts. Never forget that. All and everything they will say
is distorted and mostly un logic, just like the CPD in his post claiming ..."You expectations are of no concerns to India"...


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## slugger

dr.rehan said:


> Haha.. Yeah, isent that why you are here to just state exactly that. That your not concerned. You fact twisting unlogic CPD!...





dr.rehan said:


> Brother Paks.
> is distorted and mostly un logic, just like the CPD in his post claiming ...*"You expectations are of no concerns to India"...*


*You are absolutely right!!!*

*I am an Indian*. I am not an Australian. I am also not a Canadian.

So when I say something I say it only as an Indian for India [Sikhs, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jews, Buddhist].

Somehow I am not inclined to become the vanguard of *Canadians and Australian citizen's opinion*

As an Indian should my concern not be for the progress, advancement and security of India.

As an Indian, why would I stand up for the opinionsof Canadians and Australians. Let the Canadians and australians stand up for heir opinions.

*India's reaction* to these Canadian, Australian and Pakistani citizen voicing anti-India pro-Khaistani opinons is that of *mirthful indifference*


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## dr.rehan

slugger said:


> *You are absolutely right!!!*
> 
> *I am an Indian*. I am not an Australian. I am also not a Canadian.
> 
> So when I say something I say it only as an Indian for India [Sikhs, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jews, Buddhist].
> 
> Somehow I am not inclined to become the vanguard of *Canadians and Australian citizen's opinion*



Yeah, poor little you.... Seeking some attention in enemy forums. What happen to your own? Arent they able to support every CPD out there on net these days?


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## ahmeddsid

With all due respect, a lot have changed after 1984, and operation Bluestar. All the Sikhs wanting Khalistan have migrated out and the Idea of Khalistan is non existent in the minds of Indian Sikhs. Some school kids and their dads will be talking about khalistan in far away lands, and thats the most that they can do. 

Do visit India, and talk to the people. Muslims in India are not tortured and killed off indiscriminately. Trust me, I am an Indian Muslim and I see no distinction between those two words. I correspond with Omar Abdullahs Views. 

The place where I come from, Kerala, I feel Muslims sometimes have the upper hand and they do misuse it also. 

Regards
God Speed

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## slugger

dr.rehan said:


> Yeah, poor little you.... Seeking some attention in enemy forums. What happen to your own? Arent they able to support every CPD out there on net these days?


What makes you say I don't hang out on other forums. but I must admit that this is the only Pakistani forum that I hang out.

I like hanging out in diverse forums
1 Engineering forum, 1 Technology forum, 1 Pakistani Defence forum, 1 Indian Defence forum, 1 Heavy Metal forum, 1 youth forum

Many forums, but only *1* of each


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## ahmeddsid

well I for one, personally, dont consider this as an enemy forum, I feel this forum is way better than Bharat Rakshak and other Pakistani defence forums. This is like one of the best forums out there. And I feel you shouldnt treat Indians an Enemies either. 

This is the only forum I have registered with. Because I am Impressed with the moderators ability to be unbiased on most occasions.

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## slugger

ahmeddsid said:


> This is the only forum I have registered with. Because I am Impressed with the moderators ability to be unbiased on *most occasions.*



That..my friend....*is the keyword*


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## aussie_1973

We never denied that we had a problem in Sindh in the past or BLA (Indian sponsored terrorism) issue in Baluchistan, why you are hiding form facts. All the people you are talking about are *Canadian or Australian Citizens of Indian origin *and have direct contact with India. Most of them fled India after the targeted killing of Sikhs by the Indian Gov, which still to date is the state policy.
The Hindus are so smart that they even used Sikh (so called) army General to lead operation Blue Star and then KPS Gill (So called Sikh again) to suppress the Khalistan movement.
Can I ask why Gen Brar (if I am spelling his name right) the guy who led army during operation blue star is still under the protection of army, and same is the case with KPS Gill. Why, because Indian Sikhs love them and accept them as their hero isn&#8217;t it. Love to see Indian reply.
And if Sikhs are so patriotic Indians who killed the so called iron lady (Indra) Taliban I guess.


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## slugger

*This is a nice forum indeed*. I never contested the statement.

Here I get to know about Pakistan and their pov, as I have not met anybody from your country in real life [though I do know a few Pakistanis in IRC - but our talks there are related to different things]


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## ahmeddsid

Yes, the Quality of Discussion here, thats what made me want to be a part of this forum. 
And Sirji, I believe, Discrimination against Muslims do happen, and Its sad. Most it is the fellow Hindu Countrymen who come forward to Help the Muslims and we got some great Social Workers who strive hard to bring the Muslims to the Mainstream and I pray they succeed. 

In my state, Kerala, Muslims are really well off and match others, we have had the Chief Minister from the Muslim League Party! But the Incessant Bomb Blasts and Terrorist atrocities world wide have tarnished the name of Muslims all over! 

Kerala has a beach named after Saddam Hussian, the only such place anywhere!!!!


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Thread closed till further notice.

If you lot can't behave, you can't play.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Thread opened.

I would like to remind everyone that discussion/comparison of other forums is not allowed on defence.pk - even when the comparisons are favorable to def.pk.

As far as talking about defence.pk is concerned, please do that in the members club or suggestions sub-forum. 

Criticism of Mods is frowned upon, though praise and thanks is shamelessly expected and accepted.  

But seriously, Moderator criticism is frowned upon on the open forum. Any issues you may have can be broached politely in PM's. 

As your parents may have (or not) informed you, 'good manners open all sorts of doors', or some adage along those lines...

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## nitesh

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Criticism of Mods is frowned upon, though praise and thanks is shamelessly expected and accepted.


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## Lockheed F-16

It's only a matter of time, India will split up in different provinces. Khalistan, Assam then Tamil, all want independence and I think, they will get it.


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## third eye

Lockheed F-16 said:


> It's only a matter of time, India will split up in different provinces. Khalistan, Assam then Tamil, all want independence and I think, they will get it.



We even have a Nostrodamus here ....

and what Sir are ur prophesies for Pak ? Strong, resilent & economically self sufficient.. with no need to be bailed out etc I presume ?


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## ahmeddsid

You left out the Gujjus, Telengana people, Telugu people, Mallus (Keralaites) lol. Man dont you know that when u wish ill upon others, Its bound to befall you first??? The Prophet PBUH, didnt teach Muslims to think Ill about others. I suggest you do the same! If India can survive for 60+ years without a single break up, then I guess it wont be that hard a task to go on peacefully!

Lastly, a strong Pakistan, a Democratic Pakistan is in Indias Interest, hence I wont wish Ill upon you!

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## ajpirzada

y r we even thinkin about khalistan. that has to do nothing with pakistan. its indias internal issue lik how balochistan is pakistans internal issue. none should interfere in anyones internal matters. our dispute is over kashmir and let us not take it beyond that. rather we should come up with some sort of solution for kashmir and move on as friendly neighbours. 
y cant we just make whole of kashmir as a common territory bw pak and india. UK and ireland are doin the samething incase of northern ireland and all of them are happy including ppl living in northern ireland.
Peace


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## Lockheed F-16

Plz think about the several different ethnic groups of your nation! Compare it to other countries, you see, it's only a matter of time


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## ahmeddsid

Lockheed F-16 said:


> Plz think about the several different ethnic groups of your nation! Compare it to other countries, you see, it's only a matter of time


I can imagine!!! with just a 3 or 4, the banglas frisked away! poor India! sob sob!


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## slugger

Lockheed F-16 said:


> Plz think about the *several different ethnic groups of your nation! Compare it to other countries*, you see, it's only a matter of time



Unfortunately the concept of *Unity in Diversity* will always be lost on you.

It is *highly immature of me* to expect *you* to inderstand the *beauty of this multi-cultural, multi-ethnic togetherness* and the enrichment of India's culture that this togetherness brings

*@Agnostic_Muslim*
Removed the mention of Pakistan


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## rubyjackass

Yeah...
and we are proud to stay together through all these years.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

slugger said:


> Considering that you are from Pakistan,..



That does not imply anything, and is a blatant and flawed generalization of all Pakistanis.

Stick to the message of the poster, instead of smearing an entire nation and people.


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## Lockheed F-16

I already reported him


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## ju87

Isn't this thread a bit pointless, since a large proportion of the Indian Armed Forces are Sikhs? Khalistan is a dead ideology, good only for the coffee tables of Vancouver and London.


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## aussie_1973

*If this movement is only alive in Canada, then why this guy, who is an Indian Citizen speaking about it on a Indian channe*l?


YouTube - Khalistan: The Interview of Bhai Daljit...


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## SherdiL!

Balouchis are not against us infact they are with us some are misleading and they only make up 3.2&#37; of Pakistan Population


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## digitaltiger

aussie_1973 said:


> So you are trying to say that Sikhs are not demanding any separate home land for them.
> This guy *Bittu *is an Indian Citizen speaking on a Indian Channel.
> Anybody there...



You tube is an open source site and any body can put anything on it.. As far as Sikhs are concern.. and so called "Bittu" and khalistan is concern he is free to say any thing he wants, the catch is, does it have any significance?? 

Also u all You Tube lover Kids, who learn history lessons watching You Tube...

chk this out, your own Khalistan..

{YouTube - Baloch freedom fighters attacking army post}

Baloch freedom fighters attacking pakistasni army post in ...


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## SherdiL!

digitaltiger said:


> You tube is an open source site and any body can put anything on it.. As far as Sikhs are concern.. and so called "Bittu" and khalistan is concern he is free to say any thing he wants, the catch is does it have any significance??
> 
> Also u all You Tube lover Kids, who learn history lessons watching You Tube...
> 
> chk this out, your own Khalistan..
> 
> {YouTube - Baloch freedom fighters attacking army post}
> 
> Baloch freedom fighters attacking pakistasni army post in ...
> 
> 
> m6dC6FcjfiE[/media] - Baloch freedom fighters attacking army post



its India who is funding them with the syht load of weapons as i said before they only make up 3.2% of Pakistan Population and they are not educated.


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## Lockheed F-16

digitaltiger said:


> You tube is an open source site and any body can put anything on it.. As far as Sikhs are concern.. and so called "Bittu" and khalistan is concern he is free to say any thing he wants, the catch is does it have any significance??
> 
> Also u all You Tube lover Kids, who learn history lessons watching You Tube...
> 
> chk this out, your own Khalistan..
> 
> {YouTube - Baloch freedom fighters attacking army post}
> 
> Baloch freedom fighters attacking pakistasni army post in ...
> 
> 
> m6dC6FcjfiE[/media] - Baloch freedom fighters attacking army post



2006 MY FRIEND


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## SherdiL!

i was checking out thier website no one is really active seems dead.


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## SherdiL!

christiancouncil.in - Gujarat Bill: Denying religious freedom in freedom's name


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## digitaltiger

SherdiL! said:


> i was checking out thier website no one is really active seems dead.



You got it right brother ............ So there were problems and they were answered in one or other way... There are many seperatist groups active in India and Pakistan (no doubt more in India), but that dosent mean we will allow our country's to be divided again. Its's draw back of democracy that we can not keep all satisfied.. so instead of fuming and bashing each other lets talk peace and possible solution for our common issues, we never know who might be keeping an eye on PDF and they might learn something good from this forum atleast.


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## Captain03

some sikhs might support pakistan but the rest of this sikh generation has been brainwashed and is gonna support india

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## Moorkh

> some sikhs might support pakistan but the rest of this sikh generation has been brainwashed and is gonna support india



true enough dude, true enough

by the way i was also brain washed the same way, 

and you have also been brainwashed to support pakistan


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## fire

Captain03 said:


> some sikhs might support pakistan but the rest of this sikh generation has been brainwashed and is gonna support india



Now that was really funny indeed.
People bashing each other for Bhindrawala ,a man dead in Operation Bluestar.


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## R.A.W.

The Sikh Regiment India....

2 Param Vir Chakras,
2 Ashok Chakras,
14 Maha Vir Chakras,
14 Kirti Chakras,
64 Vir Chakras,
15 Shaurya Chakras,
75 Sena Medals
25 Vishisht Seva Medals.

India-Pakistan War 1965

Ten battalions of the Sikh Regiment saw action in the 1965 war. In a bid to seal off routes of infiltrations for the Pakistanis in J & K, 1 Sikh who were in the Tithwal sector attacked Pakistani positions . A company lead by Major Somesh Kapur captured Richhmar Ridge on 24 August 1965 and then attacked and captured the Pir Sahiba feature on the night of 25/26 August. From this feature the Indian troops could now overlook an extensive area under Pakistan control. Through out September, Pakistani troops tried hard to recapture this feature but were unsuccessful. 1 Sikh received 3 Vir Chakras ( Major Somesh Kapur and L/ Havildar Gurdev Singh and Sepoy Gurmel Singh (posth.)) for these operations . 3 Sikh were in the Keren -Kishanganga sector. A platoon of 22 men under Subedar Sunder Singh withstood attempts by Pakistanis to capture the Pharkian Ki Gali feature. In the end of September the Sikhs blew up the Shahkot Bridge.

India-Pakistan War 1971

A number of Sikh battalions fought during the 1971 war, most of them on the Western Front. 8 Sikh were in the Uri sector and 9 Sikh in the nearby Tangdhar sector. Two companies of 9 Sikh attacked and captured Thanda Pani and Kaiyan on 5 December night. The battalion then captured some more positions. At one stage they had advanced so rapidly that they went beyond artillery range. When the Sikhs came under Pakistani fire, they manhandled a medium gun over the mountains to take on the enemy by direct fire. On 14 December, 9 Sikh then cleared the heights
dominating Naukot.


2 Sikh were in the Lahore sector and part of the battalion was defending the Ranian Post , which the Pakistanis seemed determined to capture. They attacked the post repeatedly on 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th December, but each time they were beaten back. At the start of the war the Pakistanis had managed to capture the village of Pulkanjri and had sited 12 BMG's and some 3.5 inch rocket launchers around it. On December 17th and 18th, 2 Sikh attacked and recaptured the Pulkanjri village. During this attack L/Naik Shangara Singh displayed conspicuous gallantry in clearing two machinegun posts which were holding the attack up. Shangara Singh dashed through a minefield and hurled a grenade at one of the post. He then charged the second gun and leaping over the loophole he snatched the gun from its occupants. As he stood with the gun in his hands he received a fatal burst in his abdomen and fell to the ground with the gun still in his hand. He was awarded a posthumous Maha Vir Chakra. N/ Sub. Gian Singh received a posthumous Vir Chakra. The Pakistanis tried to recapture the Pulkanjri village using a company of 43 Punjab and two companies of 15 Punjab. The Sikhs stood firm and inflicted heavy casualties on the enemy's 15 Punjab. In a local counter attack they captured 1 officer and 8 OR's of 43 Punjab and 4 OR's of 15 Punjab. 19 Sikh was in the Ajnala area and captured the border post Budhai Chima on the night of December 5/6.

10 Sikh was in Rajasthan along the Nayachor axis. On December 11, they were part of a brigade attack along with 2 Mahar and 10 Sikh LI to capture Parbat Ali a feature which dominated both the main road and railway line to Nayachor and it was turned into a formidable defensive position by the enemy. In a grim battle working with bayonets and going from trench to trench the feature was cleared by the morning of 13 December. 10 Sikh won 6 Vir Chakras (Major Amrik Singh, Sub.Gurcharn Singh (posth.), Naik Gurjant Singh (posth.), L/Naik Harbhajan Singh, Sep. Mohan Singh) and 3 Sena Medals along with the battle honour Parbat Ali . 4 Sikh fought in the Eastern sector on the Jessore front. The battalion cleared the village of Burinda, which then opened the road to Jessore. The battalion then continued the advance to Khulna and on December 16, attackedShyamganj and captured it. Naik Mohinder Singh won a posthumous Vir Chakra and the battalion received the battle honour Siramani .

1999 Kargil Conflict *This one was after operation blue star*

During the Kargil Conflict of 1999, two battalions, 8 Sikh and 14 Sikh were inducted into operations. 8 Sikh were tasked to capture Tiger Hill. By 21st May, the 8 Sikh had isolated Tiger Hill from three directions, east,north and south. In order to inflict casualties the enemy positions on Tiger Hill were subjected to artillery and mortar fire. A fresh battalion, 18 Grenadiers was brought in to capture the peak with 8 Sikh holding the firm base. On the night of July 3rd, 18 Grenadiers captured the eastern slope but further advance was held up due to effective enemy fire from Helmet Top, India Gate features on the western slope.
The Regimental motto is the vow taken by Guru Gobind Singh, "Nische kar apni jeet karon" - with determination, I'll fetch triumph. The Regimental March is a hymn written by Guru Gobind Singh during the Battle of Chamkaur, "De shiva bar mohey ehai" and the battle cry is "Bole so nihal, sat sri akal".

*I think people of Pakistan will not have doubt against whom they got the same.
Should i say more who favours whom.*


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## boxer_B

Moorkh said:


> true enough dude, true enough
> 
> by the way i was also brain washed the same way,
> 
> and you have also been brainwashed to support pakistan



LOL, MOORKH...i remember my school days


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## PlanetWarrior

dr.rehan said:


> Hmmm, why dont you tell that to the countless Sikhs i myself along with many others on this board have spoken with in past instead of making such a claim on this board where you have about 0 credibility being a sorry little
> 
> I know they are indians.. But why do they happen to like us more then you ? That beats me.



True indeed. Manmohan Singh and the thousands of our Sikh jawans all like Pakistan more than India  In fact they are Pakistani agents and India is now a colony of Pakistan which has its agents controlling our country


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## jarnee

you guys dont know fundamental thing.....and keep BS... All Sikh's are Hindu's ..however all Hindu's are not sikhs..Sikhism is a sect. Like Jain's.. 

It is dharm of a Hindu Punjabi to make his eldest son Sikh..very simple okay..that is how all Sikh's have evolved...Guru Gobind singh urged the people of Punjab .. to dedicate son's to fight Mulsims..especially Mughals.

Any Hindu can become a sikh if he wants to..and that's why so many serve in Army today ...they were raised as Warrior sect to protect against atrocities..by Aurangzeb


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## Spring Onion

Indian sikhs will support their own country India.


why to ask such a silly question anyway

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## jarnee

Pls your parents in Pakistan why Sikh's keep turban..they will know.. It is basically a natural headgear.. so that impact of sword direct on the head can be taken..It is a Dharama of a Sikh male to keep 5 K's ... one of them is Kripan (small dagger). other K stands for Kesh(Hindi for Hair).. etc


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## Comet

Sikhs will support India, of course(if not manipulated)


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## Saint N sinnerr

Aussie 1973 , I had no idea U are so desperately in need of attention..... but having it now.... how does it feel bud? 

I wud like to ask another Q to counter ur ignorence....
Who do you think the Sikhs supported and went to kargil to fight off the ISI and Pak army???? 

Or on the contrary , if U think its funny(as in, not aroused from your ignorence) , just so U know , its NOT ... its not even the same zip code sas F.u.n.n.y.

On the serious note though.. hailing from patiala region of punjab , i understand the sikh psyche in india.Studied in a village where 99&#37; of my friends were Sikhs, It never occured that they or I treat each other differently. I have visited the UK... and met a lot of expats. I know in OZ UK USA and Kaneda (canada)some think its cool to do it... (most of tham , not all) wearinng heavy GOLD KHANDAS (sikh holy symbol) and trying to be macho.... but they have no idea of the recuperations of the riots etc.how many thousands of people will be killled on each side , let alone the financial loss.

they are just dumb W!tt$ .... the first ones to run even if somebody farts , thinking its some bomb


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## Jatt Boy

Khalistan is against the main teaching of Sikhism - universal brotherhood. Sikhism is tolerace and equality.

Khalistan is possible only on Mars  The world is ours and we belong to this world.

Khalistan is not the answer. One of the main reasons is if it were to be "Khalistan" or "*land of the pure*" this is hypocritical as the sikhs of Punjab are also the heaviest drinkers in all of India. Use of tobacco and drugs is prohibited by Sikh faith and is against Sikh principles.

We dont want to be in Taliban kinda situation. Sikhs in US, Aus are not Indians.

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## Chanakyaa

Let me tell you One Thing; Sikhs are said to be the greatest Patriots in India.

They are really very loving people filled with nationalist feelings.

Btw, Our Former Army Chief gen JJ Singh and The Current Indian PM is a Sikh too. They are Governing India , leave Aside the question of "supporting".


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## mr42O

Every religon have a country why not sikh ?

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## PlanetWarrior

mr42O said:


> Every religon have a country why not sikh ?



Sikhs are an offspring of Hindus just as Buddhists and Jains are. By your logic will you give the Taliban a portion of Pakistan in promoting their "religion" ?


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## Comet

PlanetWarrior said:


> Sikhs are an offspring of Hindus just as Buddhists and Jains are. By your logic will you give the Taliban a portion of Pakistan in promoting their "religion" ?



well yes of course they should be given country and since India is so much involved in TTP, why don't India give them a piece of land?


btw, are you comparing Sikhs with Taliban... Sikhs may not like it!


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## Hyde

well i had so many sikhs collegeous in my previous job and trust me they just don't care now........... although they have so many differences with Hindu's and i have seen them disgracing them but when it come to a seprate country....... most of them just don't care

May be thats because they live in London and concentrate on making £££ however the differences are there and providing them equal rights may also be not helpful


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## PlanetWarrior

umairp said:


> well yes of course they should be given country and since India is so much involved in TTP, why don't India give them a piece of land?
> 
> 
> btw, are you comparing Sikhs with Taliban... Sikhs may not like it!



No Sikhs unlike Talis are not extremists. Sikhs do have their own land and their own country. Their country and their land is called India/Bharat. A Sikh is PM of India and the last head of Indian army was a Sikh. Many Sikhs hold high offices in India and are policymakers. Sikh regiments are the pride of the IA. Sikh cultural events are equally important in India as all other cultural events. Since the 80's most if not all Sikhs in India accept that their only country and their only home is India. Our secular style of democracy made the Sikhs realise that. Why would India now want to make them part of another nation and why would they want to be anything but Indian? We are reaching the same message to all our Indian Muslim brothers and sisters now. Don't be surprised someday in the future if you awake to hear a Muslim Indian PM berating Pakistan for being a nuisance to India over the Kashmir issue. In time people realise that a secular democracy is the only solution. Love and respect yours and others religions but your patriotism for your country must be a uniting force in loving the cultures of all your fellow nationals. That is why Hindu nationalism has no platform in real politics in India and any Indian irrespective of race or culture can be a PM or President or military Chief of India. It is slow but it is developing and someday we will get there. Slowly but surely.

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## Jatt Boy

Yea , Khyber pass to Himachal Pradesh / small part of UP in the east,

and from Gilgit in the north to Rahimyar Khan / small part of Rajasthan in the south.

River Ravi on the west and river Jamuna on the east.

Capital will be Rawalpindi.

In the north, part of Himalayan range and in south, part of Thar Desert will make the geographical boundaries of Khalistan.

Wish you well.  



mr42O said:


> Every religon have a country why not sikh ?


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## dvk1982

even with less than 2% of their population, more than 12% of Indian army is made of Sikhs..... I see no merit in this discussion....

Sikhs might have had some complaints in the past but generally they r more patriotic than a common indian.


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## r3alist

if there was nuclear war would sikhs not suffer the most?

since the punjab is dearest to sikhs and it is the punjab that would be the likely theatre of nuclear exchange. what would be left for sikhs if the punjab was destroyed?



the above is something i have heard a few times, what do people think about it?


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## Chanakyaa

mr42O said:


> Every religon have a country why not sikh ?



Are You serious ?

*Besides The Whole of India belongs to Sikhs*, as well as Hindus and Muslims.


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## PlanetWarrior

r3alist said:


> if there was nuclear war would sikhs not suffer the most?
> 
> since the punjab is dearest to sikhs and it is the punjab that would be the likely theatre of nuclear exchange. what would be left for sikhs if the punjab was destroyed?
> 
> 
> 
> the above is something i have heard a few times, what do people think about it?



Buddy if there was a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan then Sikhs, Muslims, Christians, Jains, Hindus, Buddhists, Athiests, Jews and everybody else will be destroyed. Okay perhaps the Taliban in Pakistan may survive since they will crawl into their cockraoch holes and hide out there for another 200 years


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## Spring Onion

PlanetWarrior said:


> Buddy if there was a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan then Sikhs, Muslims, Christians, Jains, Hindus, Buddhists, Athiests, Jews and everybody else will be destroyed. :



 then lets start a nuke war atleast US will get rid of Indo-Pak.


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## PlanetWarrior

Jana said:


> then lets start a nuke war atleast US will get rid of Indo-Pak.



If US is lucky then China will get wiped out by effects of radiation as well . What a bonus for the west


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## deckingraj

what a waste thread ...Is there anyone who find the heading offensive or its just me being a sikh falling into the trap??? Who will sikh support?? bloody hell as if Sikhs are separate entity and not indians...

Who will muslims support...who will christians support..who will Jains support..and for that matter who will South indians support..north east support...All this is bull ****...we all are indians and have shown on many occassions that when anyone threaten us we all are united like a wall....

Its as much as my india as anyone else's is...I love my country like people love theirs.. Khalistan was a slogan used by idiots to mislead the masses.. To add insult to injury even center under the leadership of Indira Gandhi did not handle the situation well and made the blunder of attacking Golden Temple...This caused lot of unrest among masses making them gullible which Khalistan supporters used to their advantage...but remember it was people of punjab who eventually rejected the terrorist and their propaganda and result is in front of us...


So all those members here who have even a glimpse of this impression that SIKHS will support pakistan or any adversary of India should do a reality check..*Neither we did support anybody nor we will.. PERIOD*


Mods - Do you really see any sense in this thread?? If not please close it...

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## aussie_1973

deckingraj said:


> what a waste thread ...Is there anyone who find the heading offensive or its just me being a sikh falling into the trap??? Who will sikh support?? bloody hell as if Sikhs are separate entity and not indians...
> 
> Who will muslims support...who will christians support..who will Jains support..and for that matter who will South indians support..north east support...All this is bull ****...we all are indians and have shown on many occassions that when anyone threaten us we all are united like a wall....
> 
> Its as much as my india as anyone else's is...I love my country like people love theirs.. Khalistan was a slogan used by idiots to mislead the masses.. To add insult to injury even center under the leadership of Indira Gandhi did not handle the situation well and made the blunder of attacking Golden Temple...This caused lot of unrest among masses making them gullible which Khalistan supporters used to their advantage...but remember it was people of punjab who eventually rejected the terrorist and their propaganda and result is in front of us...
> 
> 
> So all those members here who have even a glimpse of this impression that SIKHS will support pakistan or any adversary of India should do a reality check..*Neither we did support anybody nor we will.. PERIOD*
> 
> 
> Mods - Do you really see any sense in this thread?? If not please close it...




Most Pakistanis does not know that Indian Army killed one of their former General Shabeg Singh with Bhindranwala during operation blue star. And if the Khalistan movement is completely dead why people like Bhai Dalgit Singh Bittu (refer to ytube video on 1st page of this thread) are still talking about it.
Also when number of times Bhinderanwala and other Sikh leaders clearly said that Sikhs are not Hindus, why Indian members are insisting that they are Hindus.
Also, till date KPS Gill the butcher of punjab and Gen Brar cannot move around without very tight security, why ,becouse Sikhs love them so much that every Sikh wants to take autograph form them.


*About Gen Shabeg Singh
General Shabeg Singh belonged to Khiala village (earlier known as Khiala Nand Singhwala) of the Bhangus, about nine miles from Amritsar-Chogwan Road. He was the eldest son of Sardar Bhagwan Singh and Pritam Kaur, and had three brothers and a sister. He traced his lineage to great Sikh warrior, Bhai Mehtab Singh Bhangu who along with Bhai Sukha Singh slew the notorious Massa Rangar in 1740 and thus avenged the desecration of the Golden Temple. The family was well-to-do and prosperous and had sizeable land holding of over 100 acres. Sardar Bhagwan Singh was the village Lambardar. Nand Singh was the great-grandfather of Shabeg Singh.

From his early childhood Shabeg Singh displayed leadership qualities and above-average intelligence. He would often spontaneously composed extemporaneous verses to caricature interesting village personalities. He displayed a keen interest in history and literature and his village teachers were impressed with his intellectual ability. They advised Sardar Bhagwan Singh and Pritam Kaur to send him to a school. He was sent to the Khalsa College in Amritsar for secondary education, and later to the Government College in Lahore for higher education.

Shabeg Singh was an outstanding football and hockey player, and excelled in athletics. At the age of 18 years he had equaled the India records in 100 meters sprint and was the District Broad jump champion. However, even though he had a natural ability for sports he did not wish to pursue that as a career, his mind was on the army, which was considered a noble profession. He excelled in studies and generally topped his class.

[edit] Indian Army
This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (June 2009) 

In 1940, an officers selection team visiting Lahore colleges were looking for fresh recruits to the Indian Army officers cadre. Out of a large number of students, who applied, Shabeg Singh was the only one to be selected from Government College. After training in the officer training school, he was commissioned in the second Punjab Regiment as a Second Lieutenant. Within a few days the Regiment moved to Burma and joined the war against the Japanese, which was then in progress. In 1944 when the war ended, he was in Malaya with his unit. After partition, when reorganization of the regiments took place, he joined the Parachute brigade as a Paratrooper. He was posted in the 1st para battalion in which he remained till 1959.

In 1952, Shabeg Singh's younger brothers Sardar Shamsher Singh, Sardar Jaswant Singh along with their brother-in-law shifted to Haldwani in the Terrai area of Uttar Pradesh after having bought farmlands there. In 1957, Jaswant Singh died.

General Shabeg had a flair for history, and he loved reading about military generals and campaigns. Besides English and Hindi, he could speak fluent Punjabi, Persian, Urdu, and Gorkhali. He was an instructor in the Military Academy at Dehra Dun, and held a number of important staff appointments in various ranks. In the army he had a reputation of being fearless officer and one who did not tolerate any nonsense. During the course of his service in the Indian army, Shaheg Singh fought in every war that India participated in.

Although he had a brilliant military career, including being an instructor in the prestigious Joint Services Wing of the Indian Military Academy, Major General Shabeg Singh was discharged from Indian Army without court martial one day before his retirement, thus losing part of his pensions. Singh took his case to the civil courts, but with no avail.

[edit] Operation Blue Star
After his dismissal, Shabeg Singh joined Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.[2] He organised the Khalistan activists present at the Harmandir Sahib (Golden Temple) in Amritsar in June 1984. He was killed in Operation Blue Star, the Indian Army's action on the Golden Temple complex to flush out the militants.

[edit]*


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## sajan

deleted...


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## Trisonics

Guys ..the intention of this thread was to get us agitated. Don't you think the guys here would have googled all that to find out? why cant we Indians learn to ignore such silly and baseless threads? The more you reply the more conspiracy stories you have to hear. That is the agenda for some people, get emotions high when all we have to do is ignore..


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## rajeev

Trisonics said:


> Guys ..the intention of this thread was to get us agitated. Don't you think the guys here would have googled all that to find out? why cant we Indians learn to ignore such silly and baseless threads? The more you reply the more conspiracy stories you have to hear. That is the agenda for some people, get emotions high when all we have to do is ignore..



Yes man. I think some Pakistanis are so much deep into conspiracy theories and propaganda that they think India is a house-divided. It is amusing to see them rant on silly things! May be they are seeing their own mirror and wondering the same is not the case with India.

If you read their posts you would see - like Indian Muslims hate India - when Ejzar came and said that he loves India, then they picked on Dalits and then Christians. A guy from Goa commented being Christian he loves India. And deckingraj - a Sikh said he loves India too! And what is left is now upper-caste Kafirs - I think next thread might about that! Silly them!


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## Ruag

What a retarded thread.

Obviously there are some Sikhs who demand for a separate state and have anti-India feelings.

Obviously the majority of Sikhs think that those demanding for a separate state are themselves retarded.

Obviously majority of Sikhs will die for India if need be and history proves it - look at the Indo-Pakistani wars.

Obviously the Sikhs think of themselves to be an integral part of India and feel this natural bond with Hindus (the feeling is mutual).

And obviously... Khalistan movement is long dead. Not a single Khalistan movement related activity has ever taken place in India since 1985. All of these "Khalistanis" are hiding in other countries and if they ever decide to return to India and cause trouble, the Sikhs and Hindus of the Indian Army will be ready for them.


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## mrwarrior006

this thread was started in 2008 and its 2009 has come to almost end so sikhs ar with us manmohan has gone on to become PM for 2nd time and no part of india is broken or running away


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

All the Sekihs I know they have this strange symbol on their cars , recently I found this symbol means well seikh land for themselves - I was quite shocked as this symbol now is on 99&#37; of Seikhn community that feld India post the offensive in India against Seikhs


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## blueoval79

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> All the Sekihs I know they have this strange symbol on their cars , recently I found this symbol means well seikh land for themselves - I was quite shocked as this symbol now is on 99&#37; of Seikhn community that feld India post the offensive in India against Seikhs










Is this the symbol you are talking about.


Read this for more information on this:

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Khanda


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## r3alist

Trisonics said:


> Guys ..the intention of this thread was to get us agitated. Don't you think the guys here would have googled all that to find out? why cant we Indians learn to ignore such silly and baseless threads? The more you reply the more conspiracy stories you have to hear. That is the agenda for some people, get emotions high when all we have to do is ignore..





here the pot is calling the kettle black.


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## third eye

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> All the Sekihs I know they have this strange symbol on their cars , recently* I found this symbol means well seikh land for themselves* - I was quite shocked as this symbol now is on 99% of Seikhn community that feld India post the offensive in India against Seikhs



Where has this come from ?


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## r3alist

PlanetWarrior said:


> Buddy if there was a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan then Sikhs, Muslims, Christians, Jains, Hindus, Buddhists, Athiests, Jews and everybody else will be destroyed. Okay perhaps the Taliban in Pakistan may survive since they will crawl into their cockraoch holes and hide out there for another 200 years




no but really, if the punjab is destroyed and if there holy cites are also subsequently destroyed or cannot be ever visited then the origins of their entire cultural and religious identity is gone.

in such a disastrous scenario it is possible that people will retreat into civilisational fault lines such as hindu/sikh/muslim - that is if you believe huntington's thesis on how the world is - so if worse comes to worst hindu's will have other parts of india which will be symbolic of hinduism left not destroyed, pakistani's will have mecca which will be untouched and the sikhs will have....


this is something that some sikhs have wondered out aloud to me and also how some pakistani's see the situation....


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## Kompromat

Hello:

Stop deaming guys , Sikhs are not going to support anyone Neighter Pakistan nor India in any case of war .

If someone thinks that Sikhs have a soft spot for Pakistan , he is living in a heaven of IDIOTS.

Remember 1.5 million Killings in 1947 ???????? or have you forgotton like your after noon capichino?

Siks were among those who Killed many of our Migrants..

Operation Blue star wich resulted in 15000 deaths from Sikh side , is a scar on so called Democracy!

Siks want their own Land KHALISTAN where the can live by their own way.

There is no element of Sikh Pakistan partnership .

Posting a Video wich sikhs have used all over the world to teach their Kids about operation Blue star , its now on Youtube.

Watch this :





Regards:


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## FireFighter

Trisonics said:


> Guys ..the intention of this thread was to get us agitated. Don't you think the guys here would have googled all that to find out? why cant we Indians learn to ignore such silly and baseless threads? The more you reply the more conspiracy stories you have to hear. That is the agenda for some people, get emotions high when all we have to do is ignore..




I have no problem whatsoever If you chose to live on a fake cloud created by Indian nationalist sentiments and ignore ground realities that point in other unfavourable directions. 


The reality is that much of the Sikh community lives in rural India to this day and they have a deep-rooted hatred for Hindu Brahmins elite that literally dominate India in all spheres of life whether its political governance or corporate hubs in India and exploit the poor masses. This hatred and opposition is historical and you simply cannot deny it. It exists and will continue to exist so long as the Hindu elites continue systematic discrimination against minorities. 

Now don't stuff Manmohan Singh's example into this argument because he's more of a figurehead work horse hired by Hindu Imperialists to do a supposed "good job". he's very much akin to Barack Hussain Obama in this regard. 

One of my best friends is a born-raised Indian Sikh and he wears a Kirpaan that says "Khalistan" on it. I've spoken to many of his family members and other sikhs in the community, as a matter of fact one of my ex managers at work was an educated Sikh who *HATED* the brahamins more than he hated anyone else. This is not to imply that they all love Pakistan, however, this is to highlight that the Sikh community is no doubt very much against the Brahmin imperalism that dominates the country and marginalizes minorities groups that choose not to adhere to their doctrines.


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## r3alist

FireFighter said:


> I have no problem whatsoever If you chose to live on a fake cloud created by Indian nationalist sentiments and ignore ground realities that point in other unfavourable directions.
> 
> 
> The reality is that much of the Sikh community lives in rural India to this day and they have a deep-rooted hatred for Hindu Brahmins elite that literally dominate India in all spheres of life whether its political governance or corporate hubs in India and exploit the poor masses. This hatred and opposition is historical and you simply cannot deny it. It exists and will continue to exist so long as the Hindu elites continue systematic discrimination against minorities.
> 
> Now don't stuff Manmohan Singh's example into this argument because he's more of a figurehead work horse hired by Hindu Imperialists to do a supposed "good job". he's very much akin to Barack Hussain Obama in this regard.
> 
> One of my best friends is a born-raised Indian Sikh and he wears a Kirpaan that says "Khalistan" on it. I've spoken to many of his family members and other sikhs in the community, as a matter of fact one of my ex managers at work was an educated Sikh who *HATED* the brahamins more than he hated anyone else. This is not to imply that they all love Pakistan, however, this is to highlight that the Sikh community is no doubt very much against the Brahmin imperalism that dominates the country and marginalizes minorities groups that choose not to adhere to their doctrines.




dont doubt this is true, but is this enough to ever make sikhs go against india?

i doubt it.


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## Jatt Boy

'Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai, Guru Maaniyo Granth&#8230;&#8217;
Every Sikh this is His will, accept the [Guru] 'Granth' as your only Guru.'
-- Sree Mukhvaak (spoken words) of Guru Gobind Singh Jee

The Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the living light of Guru Jee.
The Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the living spirit of the Ten Guru Sahibaans.
The Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the living voice of Guru Nanak Sahib Jee.

Nankana Sahib (PK) is the birthplace of Guru Nanak Dev. Other important places for Sikh faith are Panja Sahib (Hasan Abdal, Pakistan), Nanded (Maharashtra), Patna Sahib (Bihar), Hemkunt (Uttranchal), Paonta Sahib (Himachal) and so many other sacred places in India.

Punjab is equally important to Hindus, Its holy land of RishiMuni's. Pak/Afghan cities are equally important to Sikhs, Search Sikh empire in Google.

*@ FireFighter* - Sorry, I dont agree with you, fault lies with Sikhs too, u think they dont believe in caste system ? They do, heck my User ID is living proof, I choose 'Jatt' so proudly  Include me too in 'hypocritical' Sikh class. Thats why Khalistan is not justified. 



Sikhs do have their own land and their own country. Their country and their land is called India. 



r3alist said:


> no but really, if the punjab is destroyed and if there holy cites are also subsequently destroyed or cannot be ever visited then the origins of their entire cultural and religious identity is gone.
> 
> in such a disastrous scenario it is possible that people will retreat into civilisational fault lines such as hindu/sikh/muslim - that is if you believe huntington's thesis on how the world is - so if worse comes to worst hindu's will have other parts of india which will be symbolic of hinduism left not destroyed, pakistani's will have mecca which will be untouched and the sikhs will have....
> 
> 
> this is something that some sikhs have wondered out aloud to me and also how some pakistani's see the situation....


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## third eye

FireFighter said:


> I have no problem whatsoever If you chose to live on a fake cloud created by Indian nationalist sentiments and ignore ground realities that point in other unfavourable directions.
> 
> 
> *The reality is that much of the Sikh community lives in rural India* to this day and they have a deep-rooted hatred for Hindu Brahmins elite that literally dominate India in all spheres of life whether its political governance or corporate hubs in India and exploit the poor masses. This hatred and opposition is historical and you simply cannot deny it. It exists and will continue to exist so long as the Hindu elites continue systematic discrimination against minorities.
> 
> Now don't stuff Manmohan Singh's example into this argument because he's more of a figurehead work horse hired by Hindu Imperialists to do a supposed "good job". he's very much akin to Barack Hussain Obama in this regard.
> 
> One of my best friends is a born-raised Indian Sikh and he wears a Kirpaan that says "Khalistan" on it. I've spoken to many of his family members and other sikhs in the community, as a matter of fact one of my ex managers at work was an educated Sikh who *HATED* the brahamins more than he hated anyone else. This is not to imply that they all love Pakistan, however, this is to highlight that the Sikh community is no doubt very much against the Brahmin imperalism that dominates the country and marginalizes minorities groups that choose not to adhere to their doctrines.



I shall only comment on the highlighted part above as the rest does not merit a remark.

The fact is that there are few sikhs who live in rural areas. The fact that Bihari migrant labour is needed for the fields substantiates this.
In Punjab ( the Indian side) a town or kasba happens along every 10 -15 kms. The villages in Punjab are better equipped than small - mid sized towns in other parts of India.

If what I see in rural punjab can be replicated across the nation, we wouldn't need anything else.


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## FireFighter

r3alist said:


> dont doubt this is true, but is this enough to ever make sikhs go against india?
> 
> i doubt it.



Sikhs are historically freedom and peace loving people. Their history is full of sacrifices for their freedom be it against the Moguls or the British or now the Brahmins. 

They intrinsically *hate* any forces that attempt to subordinate or enslave them because Sikhism was founded as resistance movement and its always been embeded in their culture. 

You really can't expect them not to hate the Brahmins. 

The point to be noticed is that many Indians here mistranslate their hatred for the Imperialist Brahmins as an Anti-India sign because they're either Hindu Brahmins themselves or they justify Brahmin imperialism in India.


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## blueoval79

Stop the crap.......Pakistanis will never be able to refuel Khalistan Movement....it was crushed and now rejected by Sikhs living in India.......so stop wasting you time on a crappy thread like this.


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## Jatt Boy

@ MODs, why r u allowing this, above guy pretending he knows more abt my faith/religion/culture. 

Dude shut up, Sikhs respect all religions. 

See real India, Manikaran Sahib

Sikh/Hindu pray together here. The management of the Gurdwara Sahib is in non Sikh hands a lady named Deva ji.


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## FireFighter

blueoval79 said:


> Stop the crap.......Pakistanis will never be able to refuel Khalistan Movement....it was crushed and now rejected by Sikhs living in India.......so stop wasting you time on a crappy thread like this.


Yes Sikhs were slaughtered like farm animals in the Khalistan operation, but you'd be living in complete denial if you say they don't hate the Brahmin elite. 



third eye said:


> *I shall only comment on the highlighted part above as the rest does not merit a remark.*
> 
> The fact is that there are few sikhs who live in rural areas. The fact that Bihari migrant labour is needed for the fields substantiates this.
> In Punjab ( the Indian side) a town or kasba happens along every 10 -15 kms. The villages in Punjab are better equipped than small - mid sized towns in other parts of India.
> 
> If what I see in rural punjab can be replicated across the nation, we wouldn't need anything else.


Suffice is to say that I shall dismiss your entire post because of your bias towards the rural Sikh community. 


I see how you selectively responded to my comment and completely ignored the part that highlights Sikh's hatred for the Brahmins.


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## duhastmish

hmmm propaganda being cooked here ???

_kahlistan movement is dead duck , most sikh kids have no clue what the hell was khalistan._ 

infect most - sikh are anti islamic ( which is not right , being fed by the elders ) . so i dont expect a reignite of any kahlistan movement fire.
*
moreover pakistan itself is trapepd between - the breakage of coutnry, where you have taleban , punjabi tleban , army , goverment , mullah , people , intellect , blochistan , isi ,Americans and islam all singing diffrent songs*.

i dont see any hate flame coming from pakistan, in their current stage.


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## blueoval79

FireFighter said:


> Yes Sikhs were slaughtered like farm animals in the Khalistan operation, but you'd be living in complete denial if you say they don't hate the Brahmin elite.
> 
> 
> Suffice is to say that I shall dismiss your entire post because of your bias towards the rural Sikh community.
> 
> 
> I see how you selectively responded to my comment and completely ignored the part that highlights Sikh's hatred for the Brahmins.




Anti India Terrorists supported by Pakistan were killed....just like Pakistani army killed terrorists hiding in Lal Masjid.....

Tell me whats the difference in both the incidents..... 

Oh ...I know....one happened in Pakistan..so it is divine....but the other happened in India so it is merciless butchering. Right.


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## r3alist

FireFighter said:


> Sikhs are historically freedom and peace loving people. Their history is full of sacrifices for their freedom be it against the Moguls or the British or now the Brahmins.
> 
> They intrinsically *hate* any forces that attempt to subordinate or enslave them because Sikhism was founded as resistance movement and its always been embeded in their culture.
> 
> You really can't expect them not to hate the Brahmins.
> 
> The point to be noticed is that many Indians here mistranslate their hatred for the Imperialist Brahmins as an Anti-India sign because they're either Hindu Brahmins themselves or they justify Brahmin imperialism in India.



again, not doubting this, but the reality is that most sikhs although not happy are pretty content with the way things are, there is very little chance of a backlash, only if things are pushed too far, and as you say the hindu brahmins are well aware of this so they will keep the balance as its in their interests to do so.


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## third eye

FireFighter said:


> Yes Sikhs were slaughtered like farm animals in the Khalistan operation, but you'd be living in complete denial if you say they don't hate the Brahmin elite.
> 
> 
> Suffice is to say that I shall dismiss your entire post because of your bias towards the rural Sikh community.
> 
> 
> *I see how you selectively responded to my comment and completely ignored the part that highlights Sikh's hatred for the Brahmins*.



Read my post, all what was worth commenting upon was commented on.

There exists some vague mythical obsession in the minds of ppl ( from PK & BD mostly)on hatred for Brahmins amongst other Indian classes. I am not a Brahmin but couldn't care less for them or any other community / religion for that matter.

Anyway, if it makes anyone feel better or gives them ' fodder' to write on.. be my guest.

The fact is that the unsuccessful attempt to stoke Sikh insurgency by Pk has led no where and as someone just wrote - is a thing of the past.


----------



## r3alist

> The fact is that the unsuccessful attempt to stoke Sikh insurgency by Pk



and when did this happen in recent memory??


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## blueoval79

r3alist said:


> and when did this happen in recent memory??





Radio Pakistan......Punjabi Durbar Program........remember.....

Here is a glimpse of what this crappy program is all about.....

Radio Pakistan still obsessed with Sikhs&#8217; rights

Radio Pakistan&#8217;s effort to revive Khalistan agitation, an effort in vain

Radio Pakistan views PM&#8217;s heart surgery caused by Brahmin leaders


----------



## r3alist

blueoval79 said:


> Radio Pakistan......Punjabi Durbar Program........remember.....
> 
> Here is a glimpse of what this crappy program is all about.....
> 
> Radio Pakistan still obsessed with Sikhs&#8217; rights
> 
> Radio Pakistan&#8217;s effort to revive Khalistan agitation, an effort in vain
> 
> Radio Pakistan views PM&#8217;s heart surgery caused by Brahmin leaders




oh, is that it ROFL


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## r3alist

Jatt Boy said:


> @ MODs, why r u allowing this, above guy pretending he knows more abt my faith/religion/culture.




....and indians dont do the dame? lol, time to wake up!!


----------



## FireFighter

third eye said:


> Read my post, all what was worth commenting upon was commented on.
> 
> There exists some vague mythical obsession in the minds of ppl ( from PK & BD mostly)on hatred for Brahmins amongst other Indian classes. I am not a Brahmin but couldn't care less for them or any other community / religion for that matter.
> 
> Anyway, if it makes anyone feel better or gives them ' fodder' to write on.. be my guest.
> 
> The fact is that the unsuccessful attempt to stoke Sikh insurgency by Pk has led no where and as someone just wrote - is a thing of the past.



You're my friend living in a lala land full of bollywood mythical Indian nationalism 


Sikhs in pretty much around the globe but not in India cuz they're banned, celebrate "Khalsa Day" even in Canada to mark their struggle for a separate homeland 

Khalsa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

Have fun reading mate


----------



## blueoval79

FireFighter said:


> You're my friend living in a lala land full of bollywood mythical Indian nationalism



And you are living in a land where you can not even imagine a day without fearing of your life......where life is all bada beeem...bada boom....





FireFighter said:


> Sikhs in pretty much around the globe but not in India cuz they're banned, celebrate "Khalsa Day" even in Canada to mark their struggle for a separate homeland



Just like LTTE ....... dead and buried....but come out to lick some wounds...


----------



## FireFighter

blueoval79 said:


> Radio Pakistan......Punjabi Durbar Program........remember.....
> 
> Here is a glimpse of what this crappy program is all about.....
> 
> Radio Pakistan still obsessed with Sikhs rights
> 
> Radio Pakistans effort to revive Khalistan agitation, an effort in vain
> 
> Radio Pakistan views PMs heart surgery caused by Brahmin leaders



So does the whole world except for Brahmin India. As Sikhs around the whole world celebrate Khalsa Day to mark the establishment of Khalistan which was usurped by the British and now Indian Brahmin hegemony. 


So, what's your point? Tell us honestly why you hate the Sikhs so much?


----------



## blueoval79

r3alist said:


> oh, is that it ROFL



Here is more...

Punjab Timeline: 2009


----------



## Khajur

FireFighter said:


> Sikhs are historically freedom and peace loving people. Their history is full of sacrifices for their freedom be it against the Moguls or the British or now the Brahmins.
> 
> They intrinsically *hate* any forces that attempt to subordinate or enslave them because Sikhism was founded as resistance movement and its always been embeded in their culture.
> 
> You really can't expect them not to hate the Brahmins.
> 
> The point to be noticed is that many Indians here mistranslate their hatred for the Imperialist Brahmins as an Anti-India sign because they're either Hindu Brahmins themselves or they justify Brahmin imperialism in India.



buddy,

*Why are spreading garbage on this forum...this forum isnt ur dustbin??*

U neither have any knowledge about india ,its history or the sikhs?

I guess immature childish people like u shoud be shown some pics...

If anyone asking himself "Who will Sikhs Support"?...lets take refuge in the history:

1965 war:





Lieutenant General Harbakhsh Singh ) was the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Western Army Command, Indian Army during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965.

1971 war:




Niazi surrendering to Gen Arora.

Kargil war:





Gen JJ singh, DGMO ,kargil war



> You really can't expect them not to hate the Brahmins.



If u think BJP/RSS represents the "hindu Brahmin impirilism"...Then u must know that the the largest regional party of Sikhs in punjab ,*Akali Dal *is a partner of BJP in the NDA Coalition.


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## boxer_B

Black blood said:


> Hello:
> 
> Stop deaming guys , Sikhs are not going to support anyone Neighter Pakistan nor India in any case of war .



Kargil should have been an eyeopener for you!



Black blood said:


> Operation Blue star wich resulted in 15000 deaths from Sikh side , is a scar on so called Democracy!
> 
> Siks want their own Land KHALISTAN where the can live by their own way.



oh yeah, how about record of Islamic republic of Pakistan where another muslim country is carved out of it. You dont need religion to divide a country, although it act like a catalyst. 




Black blood said:


> There is no element of Sikh Pakistan partnership .
> 
> Posting a Video wich sikhs have used all over the world to teach their Kids about operation Blue star , its now on Youtube.
> Watch this :
> Regards:




At the time of 1947 Partition, those belonging to Indian religions constituted about 20 per cent of the population in West Pakistan and 34 per cent in East Pakistan. The percentages have now dropped to a little less than two in Pakistan and to about ten in Bangladesh (erstwhile East Pakistan).

All this is in sharp and disturbing contrast to the religious demography in India. The Muslim population in India grew by 1.3 per cent while the Hindu population declined by 1.5 per cent during 1991-2001. The Muslims, comprised 13.4 per cent while the Hindus formed 80.5 per cent with the total population standing at 1.02 billion in the 2001 census.

Plight upon Hindus & Sikhs in Pakistan by Jehadi-Talibani-Terrorist outfits #Alertpak#

Please note sikhs are sometimes counted in hindu population as per some UN and Amnisty international data.

An interesting, albeit chilling finding of this analysis is that there are almost 7.5 million people belonging to the Hindu and Sikh minority populations of Pakistan that are unaccounted for over and above those who migrated to India. Some of them would have been killed and others converted from their faiths to Islam. This fact seems to have received inadequate attention amongst researchers till now and more research may perhaps reveal much more than this limited analysis could reveal.

BHARAT RAKSHAK MONITOR - Volume 6(2) September October 2003

Source is BR but it has many pakistan authors and UN data in it.

Canada Offers Relief Package for Displaced Sikh Families in Pakistan

Selected quotes of Muslim League leaders espousing violence

Leader
Mohammed Ali Jinnah


Direct Action by Muslims will lead to one hundred times more destruction than the Direct Action of the Hindus.[17]

Leader
Raja of Mehmoodabad

It is the dictatorship of the Koranic laws that we want and that we will have  but not through non-violence and Gandhian truth.[18]

Leader
Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan


The Punjab Muslims do not believe in non-violence and should not, therefore, be given cause for grievance because once the Muslim lion is infuriated it would become difficult to subdue him.[19]









should i give you more on LAL-MASJID?



FireFighter said:


> I have no problem whatsoever If you chose to live on a fake cloud created by Indian nationalist sentiments and ignore ground realities that point in other unfavourable directions.
> 
> *
> The reality is that much of the Sikh community lives in rural India to this day and they have a deep-rooted hatred for Hindu Brahmins elite that literally dominate India in all spheres of life whether its political governance or corporate hubs in India and exploit the poor masses. This hatred and opposition is historical and you simply cannot deny it. It exists and will continue to exist so long as the Hindu elites continue systematic discrimination against minorities.
> 
> Now don't stuff Manmohan Singh's example into this argument because he's more of a figurehead work horse hired by Hindu Imperialists to do a supposed "good job". he's very much akin to Barack Hussain Obama in this regard.
> 
> One of my best friends is a born-raised Indian Sikh and he wears a Kirpaan that says "Khalistan" on it. I've spoken to many of his family members and other sikhs in the community, as a matter of fact one of my ex managers at work was an educated Sikh who *HATED* the brahamins more than he hated anyone else. This is not to imply that they all love Pakistan, however, this is to highlight that the Sikh community is no doubt very much against the Brahmin imperalism that dominates the country and marginalizes minorities groups that choose not to adhere to their doctrines.*



Such internet quotes wont change the reality that hindu's and sikhs and every other minority is living in peace in india. And how many times pakistan had non-muslim leader, be it a puppet one? 
How many times did you traveled to india that made you to believe that many sikhs live in rural population and are poor?

Your logic and your convoluted thinking and we know in what dire circumstances that pakistan is in today. Mr FireFighter, please extinguish fire in your country before pointing fingers at others.


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## r3alist

do a few army generals, some politicians and some bollywood actors constitute a reflection for the plight of the average sikh?

back to fuzzy indian logic again!

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## blueoval79

r3alist said:


> do a few army generals, some politicians and some bollywood actors constitute a reflection for the plight of the average sikh?
> 
> back to fuzzy indian logic again!



But a few Religious fanatics...and extremists do reflect entire Indian mindset.....

Back to fuzzy Pakistani logic again!


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## r3alist

blueoval79 said:


> But a few Religious fanatics...and extremists do reflect entire Indian mindset.....




never said it did, yet here you are accusing me of it, fuzzy indian logic at work again.


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## blueoval79

r3alist said:


> never said it did, yet here you are accusing me of it, fuzzy indian logic at work again.



Well its your logic...so it should work both ways..........because almost every Pakistani poster talks to Indians as if all Indians are religious fanatics....


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## Khajur

r3alist said:


> do a few army generals, some politicians and some bollywood actors constitute a reflection for the plight of the average sikh?
> 
> back to fuzzy indian logic again!



few army generals??

There are tens of thousand sikhs who join indian army... the ratio of their nos in the army WRT to their overall poluation is highest ,even more than hindus...

If anyone wants live in fools paradise and believe in conspiracy theories ...then he is just following the hot trend...keeping in with the long tradition of living in denial.


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## FireFighter

Khajur said:


> few army generals??
> 
> There are tens of thousand sikhs who join indian army... the ratio of their nos in the army WRT to their overall poluation is highest ,even more than hindus...
> 
> If anyone wants live fools in paradise and believe in conspiracy theories ...then he is just following hot the trend ,keeping in with the long tradition of living in denial.



None of you commented on the Brahmin domination in India. Care to explain why? 


And Yes they do join the Indian Army to escape sheer poverty, as most recruits are from rural India anyways. 

Thanks for proving my point mate.


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## r3alist

> There are tens of thousand sikhs who join indian army



to be cannon fodder for their hindu overlords


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## blueoval79

FireFighter said:


> None of you commented on the Brahmin domination in India. Care to explain why?
> 
> 
> And Yes they do join the Indian Army to escape sheer poverty, as most recruits are from rural India anyways.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point mate.



Excellent twisting .......of whatever to suit your mindset....


"Brahmin Domination".....Hmm.......An old concept but still big in Pakistani Minds........


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## Ruag

r3alist said:


> do a few army generals, some politicians and some bollywood actors constitute a reflection for the plight of the average sikh?
> 
> back to fuzzy indian logic again!



Alrite... 

The Sikhs have been tormented for ages in India. 
The Sikhs are most economically backward people in India and have been neglected for decades. 
The Sikhs hate India and want separate country.

So... Enjoying your wet dreams?

Now back to some FACTS - 

Apart from the early 1980s events, the Sikhs have a cherished history within the Republic of India.

Punjab, the land of Sikhs, has the 4th highest per capita income in India and a GDP growth rate of 12.5&#37; for 2006-07.

If Sikhs really want a separate country, then why hasn't there been a single major Khalistan related activity within India since 1985? Why do Sikhs represent a major component of the Indian Armed Forces even though less than 4% of Indian population is actually Sikh? Why do Sikhs routinely vote for Indian national parties like INC and BJP and its allies like Akali Dal?

Now, scream, yell, put forward all weird theories. It is not going to make any difference. So, continue with your wet dreams. Looking at the current reality in Pakistan, most Pakistanis are used to living in their dreamworld so as to escape their real hardships. And this entire thread is a good example of the weird dreams people are having nowadays. 

To Indian members - seriously, stop arguing here. There is no point trying to wake someone up who is used to day-dreaming.


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## duhastmish

FireFighter said:


> None of you commented on the Brahmin domination in India. Care to explain why?
> 
> 
> And Yes they do join the Indian Army to escape sheer poverty, as most recruits are from rural India anyways.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point mate.



Btw brahmin are DOMINATING IN INDIA ?

INFECT - brahmins are facing biggest opression in india. with all this quota system. 

where allminorities get reservation in - colleges , schools , jobs , even house scheme runby goverment . now even private firm have to give quota to - minorities.

just tell me howmany - brhamins are on top posts in india ?????

be it politics , bollywood , cricket or bureaucratic jobs.


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## Khajur

r3alist said:


> to be cannon fodder for their hindu overlords


you think they are bunch of idiots,ha...sikhs are one of the most industrious smart peopel around and punjab is the one of the most properous state inside india.

Never make such stupid statements in front of a sikh...it might create a health hazard for u.


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## r3alist

> Alrite...
> 
> The Sikhs have been tormented for ages in India.
> The Sikhs are most economically backward people in India and have been neglected for decades.
> The Sikhs hate India and want separate country.
> 
> So... Enjoying your wet dreams?



if you were calm and not so angry you would realise i am more on your side than what some pakistani's are saying, however you are merely on the other side of the extreme


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## r3alist

sikhs say it themsleves, not to me but in front of hindu's, they realise that they are the tip of the indian spear against pakistan, that they are an important component of the indian forces and always have been thus they know their importance and some now and again remind their hindu friends of this (note i said friends)

i.e. we are the guys who shed our blood for india more than you guys (proportionally), if it were not for us india could be in trouble!


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## boxer_B

Ruag said:


> Alrite...
> 
> The Sikhs have been tormented for ages in India.
> The Sikhs are most economically backward people in India and have been neglected for decades.
> The Sikhs hate India and want separate country.
> 
> So... Enjoying your wet dreams?
> 
> Now back to some FACTS -
> 
> Apart from the early 1980s events, the Sikhs have a cherished history within the Republic of India.
> 
> Punjab, the land of Sikhs, has the 4th highest per capita income in India and a GDP growth rate of 12.5% for 2006-07.
> 
> If Sikhs really want a separate country, then why hasn't there been a single major Khalistan related activity within India since 1985? Why do Sikhs represent a major component of the Indian Armed Forces even though less than 4% of Indian population is actually Sikh? Why do Sikhs routinely vote for Indian national parties like INC and BJP and its allies like Akali Dal?
> 
> *Now, scream, yell, put forward all weird theories. It is not going to make any difference. So, continue with your wet dreams. Looking at the current reality in Pakistan, most Pakistanis are used to living in their dreamworld so as to escape their real hardships. And this entire thread is a good example of the weird dreams people are having nowadays.
> 
> To Indian members - seriously, stop arguing here. There is no point trying to wake someone up who is used to day-dreaming.*




These kids dont realize is that their PAPA Gen zia had same theory of 1000 cuts but accidentally inflicted 900 wounds on himself.

Thats why bhutto asked him to wear burqua 

I would love pakistan sticking to this freedom fighter and splitting India crap. Mind you, 200 terrorist attacks in 3 years and look at their wet dreams.

I love pakistan and pakistanis


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## FireFighter

blueoval79 said:


> Excellent twisting .......of whatever to suit your mindset....
> 
> 
> "Brahmin Domination".....Hmm.......An old concept but still big in Pakistani Minds........




It's not only on the minds but also in our hearts which you can't remove because our ancestors gave up their lives and belonging to the Brahmin imperialists for our better tomorrow. 

I have no hate for India but the Brahmin imperialist elite that has usurped the rights of the minorities Sikhs and muslims alike. 


I'm glad that at least you accepted the Brahmin domination of India _for once_. 




As a matter of fact the Khalistan movement is still very much alive in the hearts and minds of Sikhs. Check out their website 

Khalistan.net - Khalistan the New Global Reality


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## Khajur

r3alist said:


> sikhs say it themsleves, not to me but in front of hindu's, they realise that they are the tip of the indian spear against pakistan, that they are an important component of the indian forces and always have been thus they know their importance and some now and again remind their hindu friends of this (note i said friends)
> 
> i.e. we are the guys who shed our blood for india more than you guys (proportionally), if it were not for us india could be in trouble!



India is a such big, humungous nation that comprise of population more than *ten times *of pakistan and *its security isnt dependent on any specific section or group of people...okay.*

*U must come to india for once *...live in any of its many big cities...I'm sure...u and others of ur ilk'll be so overwhelmed with its sheer pace and dynamics one sees on its streets that ur most mis conception about india's strength woud be lost in its human sea.


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## r3alist

Khajur said:


> India is a such big, humungous nation that comprise of population more than *ten times *of pakistan and *its security isnt dependent on any specific section or group of people...okay.*
> 
> *U must come to india for once *...live in any of its many big cities...I'm sure...u and others of ur ilk'll be so overwhelmed with its sheer pace and dynamics one sees on its streets that ur most mis conception about india's strength woud be lost in its human sea.



look i am not denying this, the point is that sikhs seem to mainly regard themselves as the tip of the indian spear, currently and historically.


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## third eye

FireFighter said:


> You're my friend living in a lala land full of bollywood mythical Indian nationalism
> 
> 
> Sikhs in pretty much around the globe but not in India cuz they're banned, celebrate "Khalsa Day" even in Canada to mark their struggle for a separate homeland
> 
> Khalsa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Have fun reading mate




I live in India,work with sikhs all day. All these fanciful thoughts are wishful thinking in the minds of those trying to ' find' or invent some way to get even.

Wiki is not a good idea to quote here.

Also , for academic interests sake,a separate "homeland" for Sikhs would include W Punjab also with Lahore as its capital... are you ready ?

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## r3alist

> 3)In case of a war with India they generally will be the first to participate(they are near the frontline)



exactly, they also have a disproportional representation in the armed forces and have been regarded as protectors of india, that is all i was saying, hindu's highly regard the contributions sikhs have made for indian defence in sacrificing their blood, and some sikhs are well aware of this, nothing controversial here.


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## FireFighter

duhastmish said:


> Btw brahmin are DOMINATING IN INDIA ?
> 
> INFECT - brahmins are facing biggest opression in india. with all this quota system.
> 
> where allminorities get reservation in - colleges , schools , jobs , even house scheme runby goverment . now even private firm have to give quota to - minorities.
> 
> just tell me howmany - brhamins are on top posts in india ?????
> 
> be it politics , bollywood , cricket or bureaucratic jobs.


Brahmins facing oppression in India? haha, that's like the joke of the century

They've usurped the land and resources of the minorities the past 100 yrs or so serving the British, and now the quota system has suddenly put them in a recession and halted their progress. Perfect. Thats about as far as you could go in finding justification for their atrocities against the Indian masses eh? 







third eye said:


> I live in India,work with sikhs all day. All these fanciful thoughts are wishful thinking in the minds of those trying to ' find' or invent some way to get even.
> 
> Wiki is not a good idea to quote here.
> 
> Also , for academic interests sake,a separate "homeland" for Sikhs would include W Punjab also with Lahore as its capital... are you ready ?


You havn't answered any of my concerns so I presume that you're not capable of discussing your very own affairs. 


Sikhs in Punjab never revolted against Pakistan because they've been treated quite fairly as equal citizens before the law. even our religious political parties recognize them as equal citizens and speak of upholding their rights. even though they're a very small minority, unlike the Indian Punjab, it is a non-issue.


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## Nemesis

This thread is hilarious. It also proves to what extent some Pakistani members will go to prove their nonexistent point.



> The reality is that much of the Sikh community lives in rural India to this day and they have a deep-rooted hatred for Hindu Brahmins elite that literally dominate India in all spheres of life whether its political governance or corporate hubs in India and exploit the poor masses.



Wait...hold the phone!! The Brahmin elite dominates India? Are you saying that Brahmins have subjugated the rest of us? Well thank you my good sir opening my eyes to this hindu brahmin imperialism. Obviously, as a Pakistani, you would have more knowledge about India then Indians themselves.



> Now don't stuff Manmohan Singh's example into this argument because he's more of a figurehead work horse hired by Hindu Imperialists to do a supposed "good job".



So what you're saying is that the thousands of Sikhs in the Indian army are actually doing the bidding of Hindu Brahmin imperialists. Again, i thank thee for opening my eyes. 



> This is not to imply that they all love Pakistan, however, this is to highlight that the Sikh community is no doubt very much against the Brahmin imperalism that dominates the country



Yes sir, Brahmin imperialists and those damn joos are evil. It is in their psyche to dominate the world. Thank god we have members like you to inform us of the truth. Keep on the good fight against the Hindu-zionist imperialists.

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## RobbieS

Well, Sikhs today can be divided into two groups, one who live/work abroad (mainly USA, UK, Canada, Aus-NZ) and those who live and seek out a living in India. While I am an Indian citizen my visits abroad have made me aware of the differences in opinions of these two groups when it comes to Khalistan. 

The NRI Sikhs have mostly been drawn from rural Punjab whose ancestors came quite a while ago and were significantly impacted by the religous-political conflicts in India. I find them very antogonistic towards India as a whole and supportive of Khalistan. In fact they consider themselves Sikhs/Punjabis first rather than Indians. The Khalistan themed rallies in Surrey, a Sikh dominated suburb of Vancouver and in Toronto are proof enough of their support for Khalistan.

The Sikhs in India are although psychologically hurt by what happened in 1984 still support India in all respects. I for one will never be able to forget what happened in 1984, whosoever's fault it may be. I have worked with NGOs helping women/youth rebuild their lives after 1984 and the tales of massacre and rampage that they told were heart wrenching! Still, in my view hardly 1% of Indian Sikhs would support Khalistan. The reasons for tha many, for starters khalistan that was to comprise of most of Punjab doesnt belong only to the Sikhs alone. But I guess this is best saved for another thread. 

What happened then was wrong and is a black spot on Indian democracy. But I certainly dont find 1984 as a reason enough to betray my country. Hate begets hate and violence begets violence. I'd much rather be strong myself and help fight my country against a common enemy, be it Pakistan or China then watch on the sidelines.

And a word for my Pakistani posters here, we do speak the same language as you do in West Punjab but that's not reason enough to join you. For all you know, us facing each other will certainly liven up a battle with the choicest Punjabi abuses for each other!


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## Chanakyaa

The First Name when i Think of Indian Army : Kuldeep Singh 
( The Loangewala Hero : 1971 )



> Kuldip Singh Chandpuri held the post of a Major in Indian Army's 23rd Bn, Punjab Regiment during the time of 1971 war when Pakistan army attacked the Longewala post in the state of Rajasthan (India). Kuldip Singh Chandpuri and his company numbered 120 soldiers and were responsible for defending the post of Longewala in Rajasthan, India. Kuldip Singh Chandpuri and his men were at considerable odds against the 2000-3000 strong assault force of the 51st Infantry Brigade of the Pakistani Army- backed by the 22nd Armored Regiment. Despite heavy odds Kuldip Singh Chandpuri and his company did not abandon the post and held the 2000-3000 strong Pakistani Army at bay for the full night until the Indian Air Force arrived in the morning.
> 
> *Major Kuldip Singh Chandpuri exhibited dynamic leadership in holding his men and command together against an incomparable attacking force and in leading his men to hold the attacking Pakistan Army from progressing ahead. Showing exceptional courage and determination, Kuldip Singh Chandpuri first decided not to abandon the command and he inspired his men moving from bunker to bunker encouraging them in beating back the enemy till reinforcements arrived*. In this heroic defense, Kuldip Singh Chandpuri and his 23rd Bn Punjab Regiment (120 Soldier) inflicted heavy casualties on the Pakistani Army (2000-3000 Soldiers) and forced them to retreat leaving behind twelve tanks. In this action, Major Chandpuri displayed conspicuous gallantry and leadership and was awarded Maha Vir Chakra (MVC) by the Indian Army.
> 
> The entire battle was portrayed in the superhit movie "Border (film)" in which Sunny Deol played the role of Major Kuldip Singh Chandpuri. Major Kuldip Singh Chandpuri retired as a Brigadier from the Indian Army.

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## Storm Force

Sikhs have fought the moghul empires in india for 500 years. 

Sikh religion is based around fighting muslim opression from 15th century onwards. 

Sikhs will support their leader Prime minster Singh and their estimated 150,000 sikh soldiers in the indian armed forces today..

One of india,s proud warrior races


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## SecularHumanist

I see that the Sikhs living overseas (US, Canada, UK) are the ones who seem to hate India because of 1984 and demand Khalistan. The Sikhs in India seem to have gotten over 1984. I might be wrong, but this is based on my observations.


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## EjazR

Storm Force said:


> Sikhs have fought the moghul empires in india for 500 years.
> 
> * Sikh religion is based around fighting muslim opression from 15th century onwards.
> *
> Sikhs will support their leader Prime minster Singh and their estimated 150,000 sikh soldiers in the indian armed forces today..
> 
> One of india,s proud warrior races



Looks like you have some misconeptions and fallen for the misconcieved idea of looking at history through communal eyes.

Sikhs(or Punjabis) were fighting against the Mughal(predominantly muslim)-Rajput(predominantly hindu) alliance who had become imperialist in nature. It is actually a Punjabi alliance fighting the forces against Delhi-UP and Rajasthan. A number of Punjabi muslims were part of the armies and part of the administration as well. Infct 60&#37; of the artillery of the sikh armies was muslims including rebellious hindustani muslims as well.
This is an excellent book and reference on this.
The Sikh Army 1799-1849 - Google Books



About muslims, the Adi Granth says:


> SHALOK, FIRST MEHL:
> It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.
> First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.
> Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.
> As he submits to God&#8217;s Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.
> *And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.*
> *Allah is hidden in every heart; reflect upon this in your mind. The One Lord is within both Hindu and Muslim; Kabir proclaims this out loud.*
> Be kind and compassionate to me, O Creator Lord. Bless me with devotion and meditation, O Lord Creator. Says Nanak, the Guru has rid me of doubt.
> The Muslim God Allah and the Hindu God Paarbrahm are one and the same.
> 
> To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted, and wash away pollution from within the heart. He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin.
> One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord, is the manliest man among men. He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God&#8217;s slave, who is blessed with God&#8217;s Grace.
> The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy. The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable.
> Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across.


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## EjazR

On topic, all religions are essentially ment to be universal in nature. Be it Islam, Chritianity, Hinduism or Sikh.

If the question will be who would Indian sikhs support? Then obviously India, but if its American sikhs for example, they would most likely support the US and so on.

Nationality defines loyalty to nation, and religion is loyalty to faith. As long as both are seperated (the basis of a secular state) there will be no clash between the twain.


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## blain2

Sikhs will support no one. They will let Pakistan and India duke it out, once all is done and settled, Sardarjis will rule the roost in Khalistan!!! ;-)

No offense to Sikhs or Pakistanis or Indians..


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## Hulk

blain2 said:


> Sikhs will support no one. They will let Pakistan and India duke it out, once all is done and settled, Sardarjis will rule the roost in Khalistan!!! ;-)
> 
> No offense to Sikhs or Pakistanis or Indians..



I do not care what people think as long as that is not a reality, I believe sticking to India benefits Sikhs, they are doing well in entire country and confining to Khalistan will be a loss. The Khalistan movement is long dead and no chance of coming back.


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## blain2

indianrabbit said:


> I do not care what people think as long as that is not a reality, I believe sticking to India benefits Sikhs, they are doing well in entire country and confining to Khalistan will be a loss. The Khalistan movement is long dead and no chance of coming back.



Khalistan is dead for as long as the status-quo is maintained i.e. Pakistan and India remain the way they are. If due to a future conflagration, something changes then surely Sikhs, and others too, will take advantage of the situation.


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## Kaali

Anyways they have a very good example of Pakistan when it comes to country on religious grounds and with a new country called Khalistan with all the Sikhs migrating into it will make it a country which will be in the conflict zone between India and Pakistan. 

when you have to choose between a country where you are one of the most prosperous community to a new country I think we all know the answer.

As far as sikhs are concerned its been 25 years since the riots and people have moved on with that. there is no point of discussing it after such a long span of time.


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## third eye

SecularHumanist said:


> I see that the Sikhs living overseas (US, Canada, UK) are the ones who seem to hate India because of 1984 and demand Khalistan. The Sikhs in India seem to have gotten over 1984. I might be wrong, but this is based on my observations.



Those in India, have gotten over it all. Simply coz they have seen what the Khalistan movement did to Punjab - it was brought to a standstill. It was an exercise in futility which did immense harm to Punjab.

Those who live outside are re living the past - fed by funds from various ' non state actors' from neighboring countries of India.


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## third eye

StealthQL-707PK said:


> Upon living in Canada, I have noticed alot of Sikhs around with a symbol (see picture I don't quite sure what it means ), they really want independence, ahh! I remember, police arrested Sikhs for bombing Indian airplane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Movie called "Singh is Kinng" by Ashkay Kumar



Read post # 87.


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## RobbieS

StealthQL-707PK said:


> Upon living in Canada, I have noticed alot of Sikhs around with a symbol (see picture I don't quite sure what it means ), they really want independence, ahh! I remember, police arrested Sikhs for bombing Indian airplane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Movie called "Singh is Kinng" by Ashkay Kumar



The image above is called a Khanda. Its the emblem of the Khalsa nation/community. Its posted atop tall metal posts (Nishan Sahib) in Gurudwaras, sort of a flag staff. The same emblem is also used by pro-Khalistan sikhs as the flag of Khalistan, which is a completely different thing. Link-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Flag-of-Khalistan.svg/800px-Flag-of-Khalistan.svg.png

The Khanda in itself doesnt mean independence or creation of Khalistan. Its more of a coat of arms for a Khalsa or a Sikh. Its similar to the crescent and the moon in Islam. Now using crescent and the moon symbol by a Muslim doesnt mean he believes in a unified nation of Muslims in the world, does it?


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## RobbieS

blain2 said:


> Khalistan is dead for as long as the status-quo is maintained i.e. Pakistan and India remain the way they are. If due to a future conflagration, something changes then surely Sikhs, and others too, will take advantage of the situation.



Blain2, I seriously dont think that the demand creation of Khalistan has got anything to do with with the situation between India and Pakistan. Status Quo or not the demand for Khalistan in India would stay like it is right now, dead and buried.

The reason for that is simple. Creation of Khalistan depends more on internal forces-the Indian Sikhs themselves rather than the external ones-India, Pakistan, NRI Sikhs. As long as there is no strong demand internally, there is no reason for its creation.


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## RobbieS

SecularHumanist said:


> I see that the Sikhs living overseas (US, Canada, UK) are the ones who seem to hate India because of 1984 and demand Khalistan. The Sikhs in India seem to have gotten over 1984. I might be wrong, but this is based on my observations.



Thats pretty much as it is! You got it!


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## makikirkiri

sikhs living in india will never want to leave indian nation in future.
For god sakes the indian Pm is a sikh......

I f at all there is any sikh in india or abroad who wants a khalistan, they must think about the following:
1. The prosperity of the sikhs is due to their agriculture.Khalistan if it comes into existance would be a landlocked country,with both the neighboring countries being net exporters of agricultural products. so to market their agri products the sikhs would have to depend either on india or pak to provide ports.

2. More than the issue of Kashmir ,the vulgarity and the brutality of the partition is what tickles the hate cells of people of the subcontinent. And on the issue of partition pakistanis have more complaints against sikhs than hindus. wouldn't a nuclear armed islamic country whose people hate u with all their hearts be a big threat for u?

3. And on a much more serious note wouldn;t the hindu india with RAW at the helm of affairs , try to destabilise your bowels 4 u thrashing their akhand bharath scheme by creating new 'khands' out of it?


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## Storm Force

Seems to me Pakistanis live in hope of creating turmoil in india by igniting sikh rebellion. 

I think the sikhs are to smart for that move by pakistan. 

India ike the west is a multi faith nation

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## Iqbal_Brar

Sikhs will be always be loyal to the country they live in, that is without a doubt. Infact, in all conflicts, Sikh regiment has been at the forefront; from the Pakistani front, to Chinese front to even down south in Sri Lanka. It was the Sikh regiment who fought some of the most tight fougth battles.

That aside, yes there are genuine Sikh grievances against the Indian government. One of them is that the Indian constitution even refuses to recognize the Sikh religion. Article 25 of the constitution fails to provide Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains with their rightful religious identity. Sikhs are forced to get married under the "Hindu marriage Act", despite Sikhs demanding that discriminatory law be changed for the past 60 years. Even Pakistan has passed the Anand Karj Act which gives Sikhs their very important distinct identity. And than there are other grievances; such as branding of holy cities. Sikh parties have demanded that Amritsar be labelled a holy city and all alcohol and tobacco be banned from that city. Rather than doing this, there are government run thekas (alcohol selling places) right outside the Golden Temple!! If this is not provocation I don't know what is! And than there is the case of Hindu parties like RSS and BJP trying to re-write Sikh history. In the whole Indian media and Bollywood there is a propaganda war against Sardars, in order to ashame Sikhs of their identity and get them away from their religion.


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## Hyde

This is one of the funniest thread i have ever visited in this forum 

Obviously the majority of Sikhs will support India. I understand there are some seperatist movements but they are not in majority.

Thanks for entertaining me with this thread

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## jinxeD_girl

> Will Sikhs support and fight against India in case of all out war between India and Pakistan?



This is such a stupid thread. With the exception of a few, Sikhs are pro-Indian, although some do claim about the discrimination. Why would they support Pakistan? Just like some Afghans, some Sikhs still dream of getting their Punjab back ... 

and have you seen all the anti-Pakistani films by Sunny Deol ? I haven't seen any of them as I am a big fan of old classic Bollywood films only... but I have read the plot of Gaddar - Ek Prem Katha and seen some parts of the film on youtube... 

Gaddar was based on the famous and true love story of a Punjabi Muslim Girl named Sakina and some Sikh guy. Sakina was saved by Boota Singh during partition. Boota Singh later marries Sakina and have a daughter with her. When both Indian/Pakistani governments start returning abducted women from both sides of the border, Sakina is sent back to Pakistan too to her brothers and father. Boota Singh who is truely in love with her... comes to Pakistan in search for her. Boota even converts to Islam and asks the Judge to let Sakina express her views. Sakina is forced by her brothers and father to disown her husband and her daughter too.

Broken hearted, Boota takes himself and her daughter and tries to attempt suicide by placing himself and daughter under the coming train. Boota dies, but the daughter is saved and people bury Boota Singh. Next day Sakina relatives try to open his grave and somehow the public learns about it, and then there is a big hoola hoopla. People of Lahore bury him full honor as he died a Muslim and decorate his grave with flowers.. and Boota Singh becomes a Legend as far as true love stories are concerned (This True Story is mentioned in the Book - Freedom At Midnight)

Now what Sunny Deol did.. he butchered this innocent love story to suit his Anti-Pakistani Agenda and in the later half completely diverts from the true story. 

One really *funny * thing I find about the film is that the setting is Lahore city... but Amisha Patel and her Mom are wearing gararas, Men are wearing Indian Muslim type Pajamas, Sherwanis and Jinnah cap... ... and big big havelis ... all the stereotypes associated with Indian Muslims.. Sunny Deol as a Punjabi Jatt should know that Punjabi women rarely wear Gararas... and men hardly wear Sherwanis and Pajamas in day to day lives... The setting of the film looks more like what we associate with U.P especially Lucknow, as compared to Lahore...


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## Spitfighter

jinxeD_girl said:


> This is such a stupid thread. With the exception of a few, Sikhs are pro-Indian, although some do claim about the discrimination. Why would they support Pakistan? Just like some Afghans, some Sikhs still dream of getting their Punjab back ...
> 
> and have you seen all the anti-Pakistani films by Sunny Deol ? I haven't seen any of them as I am a big fan of old classic Bollywood films only... but I have read the plot of Gaddar - Ek Prem Katha and seen some parts of the film on youtube...
> 
> Gaddar was based on the famous and true love story of a Punjabi Muslim Girl named Sakina and some Sikh guy. Sakina was saved by Boota Singh during partition. Boota Singh later marries Sakina and have a daughter with her. When both Indian/Pakistani governments start returning abducted women from both sides of the border, Sakina is sent back to Pakistan too to her brothers and father. Boota Singh who is truely in love with her... comes to Pakistan in search for her. Boota even converts to Islam and asks the Judge to let Sakina express her views. Sakina is forced by her brothers and father to disown her husband and her daughter too.
> 
> Broken hearted, Boota takes himself and her daughter and tries to attempt suicide by placing himself and daughter under the coming train. Boota dies, but the daughter is saved and people bury Boota Singh. Next day Sakina relatives try to open his grave and somehow the public learns about it, and then there is a big hoola hoopla. People of Lahore bury him full honor as he died a Muslim and decorate his grave with flowers.. and Boota Singh becomes a Legend as far as true love stories are concerned (This True Story is mentioned in the Book - Freedom At Midnight)
> 
> Now what Sunny Deol did.. he butchered this innocent love story to suit his Anti-Pakistani Agenda and in the later half completely diverts from the true story.
> 
> One really *funny * thing I find about the film is that the setting is Lahore city... but Amisha Patel and her Mom are wearing gararas, Men are wearing Indian Muslim type Pajamas, Sherwanis and Jinnah cap... ... and big big havelis ... all the stereotypes associated with Indian Muslims.. Sunny Deol as a Punjabi Jatt should know that Punjabi women rarely wear Gararas... and men hardly wear Sherwanis and Pajamas in day to day lives... The setting of the film looks more like* what we associate with U.P especially Lucknow*, as compared to Lahore...



Exactly, Bollywood caters to the Indian audience, not Pakistanis. 

For someone that hasn't watched the entire movie, you sure know a lot about it.

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## jinxeD_girl

Spitfighter said:


> Exactly, Bollywood caters to the Indian audience, not Pakistanis.
> 
> For someone that hasn't watched the entire movie, you sure know a lot about it.



As I said, I am a big Bollywood fan.. but I like classic Black and White movies... I haven't seen Gaddar completely, but there were some random parts available on Youtube. I really don't have much time to watch such jingoistic one dimensional movies, who only portray one side as the perfect one and the other completely evil...

but Pakistanis did a very good job with their answer to "Gaddar" - "Teray Pyar Mein" in which Sikh girl runs to Pakistan with her Pakistani Muslim hubby.

Now thinking about it... why Indian movies (even the ones with good intentions like Veer Zara) always show Muslim girl falling in love with Sikh and Hindu guy... and Pakistani movies show Hindu/Sikh girl falling in love with Muslim guy? Guyz are in denial or shame to admit that the REVERSE don't happen... or something to do with the Patriarchial nature of our societies..

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## jinxeD_girl

> The setting of the film looks more like what *we* associate with U.P especially Lucknow, as compared to Lahore...



If you have seen the film and visited Lahore, you would have known how different Lahore is from Lucknow... girlz don't wear ghararas at home, speak flowery urdu, guyz don't wear chori daar pajamas.. But then you guyz are in the habit of believing in Bollywood propaganda.. without doing some research of your own and thinking outside the box..


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## ADT

jinxeD_girl said:


> Pakistani movies show Hindu/Sikh girl falling in love with Muslim guy? Guyz are in denial or shame to admit that the REVERSE don't happen... or something to do with the Patriarchial nature of our societies..



The Hindu/Sikh girl always stares and smiles at me while the short guy next to me always gets jealous.


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## jinxeD_girl

ADT said:


> The Hindu/Sikh girl always stares and smiles at me while the short guy next to me always gets jealous.



I tend to believe that..


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## Trisonics

jinxeD_girl said:


> Now thinking about it... why Indian movies (even the ones with good intentions like Veer Zara) always show Muslim girl falling in love with Sikh and Hindu guy... and Pakistani movies show Hindu/Sikh girl falling in love with Muslim guy?*Guyz are in denial or shame to admit that the REVERSE don't happen... *or something to do with the Patriarchial nature of our societies..



Movies are Movies,In reality, our Muslim film stars in most cases always
( Sharuk, Aamir, Salman, Saif) marry or have/had Hindu girls as their love interest. That is why the bollywood movies want to show the other side. I can't comment on lollywood movies since I haven't seen any yet.


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## RobbieS

jinxeD_girl said:


> Now what Sunny Deol did.. he butchered this innocent love story to suit his Anti-Pakistani Agenda and in the later half completely diverts from the true story.



Sunny Deol just starred in the movie. He didn't make it. I am sure you can tell the difference between an actor and a producer/director/writer!


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## Creder

look this is a stupid thread, if you guys are hoping to capitalise on the khalistan idea its time is long gone...It was a reality 25 years ago and maybe the thing might have evovlved into something back in the day now the situation has drastically changed. People who will vouch for Khalistan still are either those who have never been to Indian Punjab or have been living outside India for a LONG time. Khalistan is no longer a movement, its a memory and it might be a cherished memory at best thats all there is to it.

To question if sikhs will rebel against India or not, well you gotta ask why would they rebel against India ? because they have beef with hindus you might say ? well they had beef with muslims too that doesnt change anything. Sikh's in india have mellowed into India's mainstream society and are no longer a separate entity, rather they are part of the mainstream India. India is their Khalistan now

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## jinxeD_girl

RobbieS said:


> Sunny Deol just starred in the movie. He didn't make it. I am sure you can tell the difference between an actor and a producer/director/writer!



Yes I know.. but.. he is the who used to appear in most anti-pakistani films. In Pakistan, people think of Sunny Deol when they think of Anti-Pakistani films.


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## RobbieS

Creder said:


> look this is a stupid thread, if you guys are hoping to capitalise on the khalistan idea its time is long gone...It was a reality 25 years ago and maybe the thing might have evovlved into something back in the day now the situation has drastically changed. People who will vouch for Khalistan still are either those who have never been to Indian Punjab or have been living outside India for a LONG time. Khalistan is no longer a movement, its a memory and it might be a cherished memory at best thats all there is to it.
> 
> To question if sikhs will rebel against India or not, well you gotta ask why would they rebel against India ? because they have beef with hindus you might say ? well they had beef with muslims too that doesnt change anything. Sikh's in india have mellowed into India's mainstream society and are no longer a separate entity, rather they are part of the mainstream India. India is their Khalistan now



Thanks man. Hope people on the forum listen to you. I have been saying the same things on over 3 different threads for the past month, still these stupid posts keep popping up. 

Anyways, like your avatar. Max Payne's my fav PC game!


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## Creder

RobbieS said:


> Thanks man. Hope people on the forum listen to you. I have been saying the same things on over 3 different threads for the past month, still these stupid posts keep popping up.
> 
> Anyways, like your avatar. Max Payne's my fav PC game!



lol chavlan marday saray, khalistan is a fanboy fantasy in Pakistan just like balouchistan is in India


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## RobbieS

Creder said:


> lol chavlan marday saray, khalistan is a fanboy fantasy in Pakistan just like balouchistan is in India



Well bro, I kinda disagree on that. About 90% of the people in India won't even know about the insurgency in Baluchistan. I don't think the opposite is true in case of Khalistan and Pakistan


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## Indiarox

RobbieS said:


> Thanks man. Hope people on the forum listen to you. I have been saying the same things on over 3 different threads for the past month, still these stupid posts keep popping up.
> 
> Anyways, like your avatar. Max Payne's my fav PC game!


have you ever played AOE III


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## RobbieS

Indiarox said:


> have you ever played AOE III



Haa....now we're talking! I play AOE II, the conquerors. Man its addictive. I even got my colleagues to play on the office LAN during weekends. An IT guy was my buddy!


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## Indiarox

RobbieS said:


> Haa....now we're talking! I play AOE II, the conquerors. Man its addictive. I even got my colleagues to play on the office LAN during weekends. An IT guy was my buddy!


Indians rock in the AOE III Asian series nanasahib story is cool too


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## Spitfighter

jinxeD_girl said:


> *If you have seen the film and visited Lahore,* you would have known how different Lahore is from Lucknow... girlz don't wear ghararas at home, speak flowery urdu, guyz don't wear chori daar pajamas.. But then you guyz are in the habit of believing in Bollywood propaganda.. without doing some research of your own and thinking outside the box..



Seen the movie, never plan on visiting Pakistan, I have no business in a dry country, I'm more of a Goa kinda guy 



jinxeD_girl said:


> As I said, I am a big Bollywood fan.. but I like classic Black and White movies... I haven't seen Gaddar completely, but there were some random parts available on Youtube. *I really don't have much time to watch such jingoistic one dimensional movies, who only portray one side as the perfect one and the other completely evil.*..



They're Indian movies, made by Indians for Indians, why would you expect them to take your side into account??



> but Pakistanis did a very good job with their answer to "Gaddar" - "Teray Pyar Mein" in which Sikh girl runs to Pakistan with her Pakistani Muslim hubby.



I guess, but then again, how good of an 'answer' could it be if 99.99% of Indians haven't even heard of it (including me of course)??



> Now thinking about it... why Indian movies (even the ones with good intentions like Veer Zara) always show *Muslim girl* falling in love with Sikh and Hindu guy... and Pakistani movies show Hindu/Sikh girl falling in love with Muslim guy? Guyz are in denial or shame to admit that the REVERSE don't happen... or something to do with the Patriarchial nature of our societies..



More like Pakistani girl.


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## Creder

wat are we talking about movies or sikhs ?

Anyways finsihed watching avatar for the third time...that one is my all time favorite now


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## Indiarox

Creder said:


> wat are we talking about movies or sikhs ?
> 
> Anyways finsihed watching avatar for the third time...that one is my all time favorite now


hurt-locker is so much better than Avatar


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## chachachoudhary

aussie_1973 said:


> *Will Sikhs support and fight against India in case of all out war between India and Pakistan?*



What was your experience during the 3-4 wars between india-pakistan. I feel the situation is not much different.

However, if Pakistan chooses a sikh prime minister, sikh chief of army, sikh president, and a separate state for sikhs in pakistan, things might be different who knows.

Till then, let us say in unison,

JO BOLE SO NIHAL, SAT SRI AKAL.


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## jinxeD_girl

Spitfighter said:


> Seen the movie, never plan on visiting Pakistan, I have no business in a *dry country*, I'm more of a Goa kinda guy



Punj = Five, and Ab = Water, Punjab is the land of 5 rivers.. where did you learn that Pakistan is dry? From Bollywood movies? Now that is a very good reason not to trust Bollywood movies propaganda 




> They're Indian movies, made by Indians for Indians, why would you expect them to take your side into account??



I disagree... Indian film industry is the largest film industry and have viewship and audience all over the world... If you will use that lame excuse "indian movies, made by indians FOR Indians".. that is not gonna work.. India should make movies close to reality by not showing their neighbors in bad limelight.. which they have stopped anywayz after Pakistan lifted the ban on Indian films... and Indians "eyeing" Pakistan as the potential territory for their film business



> I guess, but then again, how good of an 'answer' could it be if 99.99% of Indians haven't even heard of it (including me of course)??.



Doesn't matter if Indians have heard of it or not... Unlike your claim of Indian films made FOR Indians only, Pakistani movies mostly cater to Pakistani audiences... and it was fun to watch Miss Sikh running with her Muslim boy friend..

And you know what is more ironic about the film - Teray Pyar Mein? The dances were choreographed by Indian choreographer Saroj Khan.. and most of the crew members were from India.. I think the songs were also sung by Indian singers... Now you can forgive Saroj Khan for choreographing the film dances.. The film was released way back in 2001... Here is one of the song from the film... Kashmiri Muslim girl telling Miss Sikhni to fall in love with her Pakistani Muslim hubby:-


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## Creder

Indiarox said:


> hurt-locker is so much better than Avatar



Dude If you can get a theater full of people in Kentucky to stand and applaud the defeat of their country in war, the *** whopping that was laid on them.... in my book there cant be a bigger more prestigious piece of tape


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## jinxeD_girl

Spitfighter..

I can see your name at the end of this thread for a long time... Maybe your are thinking too hard for a reply... But I really have to hit bed now... Tata!  Good night.


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## jaunty

If I am not mistaken by "dry country" Spitfighter meant a country where alcoholic beverages are not available.

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## Mallu

A.Rahman said:


> yes, I was just pointing out treatment of minority.
> 
> But weren't Sikhs in 1947 killing Muslims alongside with Hindus? This is how Allah serves justice



Sikhs are always Indians


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## Spitfighter

jinxeD_girl said:


> Punj = Five, and Ab = Water, Punjab is the land of 5 rivers.. where did you learn that Pakistan is dry? From Bollywood movies? *Now that is a very good reason not to trust Bollywood movies propaganda*



Jesus christ, are you are serious? 

Maybe this is your cue to read/learn more. 



> I disagree... Indian film industry is the largest film industry and have viewship and audience all over the world... If you will use that lame excuse "indian movies, made by indians FOR Indians".. that is not gonna work.. India should make movies close to reality by not showing their neighbors in bad limelight.. which they have stopped anywayz after Pakistan lifted the ban on Indian films... and Indians "eyeing" Pakistan as the potential territory for their film business



Excuse? what excuse? 

If the Indian movie industry isn't going to be India-centric than what is? India is bollywood's largest market, therefore, simple market forces will ensure that Indian movies are made for Indians. Even commonsense will tell you that a movie industry will cater to its home audience.

Bollywood portrays Pakistan as Indians see it, and its not like anything's going to put a dent in Bollywood's popularity in Pakistan anyway.



> Doesn't matter if Indians have heard of it or not... Unlike your claim of Indian films made FOR Indians only,



My 'claim'? what is wrong with you? 

Tell me, who do you think Indian movies are made for? Pakistanis? Its a completely different matter that they are watched all over the world, why do you think they're made in Hindi? 



> Pakistani movies mostly cater to Pakistani audiences...



Yeah, I don't really care about Pakistani movies, even Pakistanis hardly watch 'em.



> and it was fun to watch Miss Sikh running with her Muslim boy friend..



You had fun, hurray. 



> And you know what is more ironic about the film - Teray Pyar Mein? The dances were choreographed by Indian choreographer Saroj Khan.. and most of the crew members were from India.. I think the songs were also sung by Indian singers... Now you can forgive Saroj Khan for choreographing the film dances.. The film was released way back in 2001... Here is one of the song from the film... Kashmiri Muslim girl telling Miss Sikhni to fall in love with her Pakistani Muslim hubby:-



This is from 2001? no wonder no one watches these movies, but hey, at least you're having fun.

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## RobbieS

Indiarox said:


> hurt-locker is so much better than Avatar



I found Hurt locker pretty one sided. Its a piece of pro-war propaganda and lacks balance which I believe is must for a war movie.

Want to watch a more realistic Iraq war movie? Check out Brian De Palma's *Redacted*. Though its a commercial failure and was heavily criticized in the US it shows the other side of the US army in Iraq. The atrocities on the local population. Credit to de Palma who risked being called a traitor and had the courage to make such a film.


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## IMADreamer

jinxeD_girl said:


> The setting of *the film looks more like what we associate with U.P especially Lucknow, as compared to Lahore... *







jinxeD_girl said:


> *If you have seen the film and visited Lahore, you would have known how different Lahore is from Lucknow... girlz don't wear ghararas at home,* speak flowery urdu, guyz don't wear chori daar pajamas.. But then you guyz are in the habit of believing in Bollywood propaganda.. without doing some research of your own and thinking outside the box..



have you ever come in lucknow??if not then how can you sure that lucknow girlz wear ghararas at home??



> But then you guyz are in the habit of believing in Bollywood propaganda.



Now what i should say about you???


BTW have you a habit to derail every thread or you just do it for fun purpose


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## RobbieS

Creder said:


> Anyways finsihed watching avatar for the third time...that one is my all time favorite now



I liked the movie too. The SFX were brilliant. 

You can call me a cynic, but its again a Hollywood version of the American/White Guy being the saviour of a doomed race. The white guy has to come in from the enemy's side and lead the natives. The natives own leaders were either incapable or lacked the knowledge about the enemy. Add to that the prophecy and you have the mythical angle. Kinda like Tarzan saving the African jungle inspite of being a White Guy and a foreigner.


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## jinxeD_girl

> India is bollywood's largest market, therefore, simple market forces will ensure that Indian movies are made for Indians. Even commonsense will tell you that a movie industry will cater to its home audience. *Bollywood portrays Pakistan as Indians see it, *and its not like anything's going to put a dent in Bollywood's popularity in Pakistan anyway.



I will reply back to the rest of your post tomorrow ONLY if I have time tomorrow.. This forum is infested with Indians, therefore, I know ... some other Indian will jump on this thread... I am done brushing with my teeth.. before I finally go to bed... 

You said... Bollywood portrays Pakistan as Indians see it? ... Then why not Bollywood starts to portray itself (India) as how Indians see themselves or for that matter how rest of the world sees them.. and stop misrepresenting its 98&#37; population

http://img17.imageshack.us/i/tina1qn.jpg/

http://img687.imageshack.us/i/tina2.jpg/


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## jinxeD_girl

IMADreamer said:


> BTW have you a habit to derail every thread or you just do it for fun purpose



What thread? This thread is stupid to begin with..


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## Spitfighter

jinxeD_girl said:


> I will reply back to the rest of your post tomorrow ONLY if I have time tomorrow.. This forum is infested with Indians, therefore, I know ... some other Indian will jump on this thread...* I am done brushing with my teeth.. before I finally go to bed...*



Good girl. 



> You said... Bollywood portrays Pakistan as Indians see it? ... Then why not Bollywood starts to portray itself (India) as how Indians see themselves or for that matter how rest of the world sees them.. and stop misrepresenting its 98&#37; population



lol. 

Its our movie industry so we can do as we please. Hows that?

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## Spitfighter

jinxeD_girl said:


> http://img687.imageshack.us/i/tina2.jpg/



Ah yes, good 'ol hard working desis, against all odds  

We might need to upgrade our public transportation. 

Does anyone have any information about new lines/carriages being added to our local trains? I don't understand how you folks in bbay wake up everyday and get on the local, I couldn't even make it on the train


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## IMADreamer

jinxeD_girl said:


> You said... Bollywood portrays Pakistan as Indians see it? ... Then why not Bollywood starts to portray itself (India) as how Indians see themselves or for that matter how rest of the world sees them.. and stop misrepresenting its 98&#37; population




Hahahaha "Hamari marzi" it's our industry??
what we like we will do "Aapko kya"?

Himmat ho to Roak sako to roak lo.......


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## IMADreamer

Spitfighter said:


> Ah yes, good 'ol hard working desis, against all odds
> 
> We might need to upgrade our public transportation.
> 
> Does anyone have any information about new lines/carriages being added to our local trains?


yahh Mamta didi have given 101 local mumbai train this year for MumbaiP


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## dvk1982

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Sikhs will be always be loyal to the country they live in, that is without a doubt. Infact, in all conflicts, Sikh regiment has been at the forefront; from the Pakistani front, to Chinese front to even down south in Sri Lanka. It was the Sikh regiment who fought some of the most tight fougth battles.
> 
> That aside, yes there are genuine Sikh grievances against the Indian government. One of them is that the Indian constitution even refuses to recognize the Sikh religion. Article 25 of the constitution fails to provide Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains with their rightful religious identity. Sikhs are forced to get married under the "Hindu marriage Act", despite Sikhs demanding that discriminatory law be changed for the past 60 years. Even Pakistan has passed the Anand Karj Act which gives Sikhs their very important distinct identity. And than there are other grievances; such as branding of holy cities. Sikh parties have demanded that Amritsar be labelled a holy city and all alcohol and tobacco be banned from that city. Rather than doing this, there are government run thekas (alcohol selling places) right outside the Golden Temple!! If this is not provocation I don't know what is! And than there is the case of Hindu parties like RSS and BJP trying to re-write Sikh history. In the whole Indian media and Bollywood there is a propaganda war against Sardars, in order to ashame Sikhs of their identity and get them away from their religion.



There cud be some truth to ur story but it is to bring to ur notice that when the first demographics in 1910 were conducted, sikhs and jains were considered as sub-sect of hindus , even religious leaders didn't protest it then (if u want source just google it), But i dont know if that is given as justification to not having a separate law for sikhs unlike muslims in india...


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## dvk1982

jinxeD_girl said:


> I will reply back to the rest of your post tomorrow ONLY if I have time tomorrow.. This forum is infested with Indians, therefore, I know ... some other Indian will jump on this thread... I am done brushing with my teeth.. before I finally go to bed...
> 
> You said... Bollywood portrays Pakistan as Indians see it? ... Then why not Bollywood starts to portray itself (India) as how Indians see themselves or for that matter how rest of the world sees them.. and stop misrepresenting its 98&#37; population
> 
> http://img17.imageshack.us/i/tina1qn.jpg/
> 
> http://img687.imageshack.us/i/tina2.jpg/



One goes to movies to get some entertainment with may provide some education here and there.... but primarily it has to be entertainment... if u want to see real india go and watch 100s of documentaries.... which isn't main stream commercial movie making....


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## Abhiras

Gadar was made to *earn money* and it has done it fantastically ..
*
Gadar remained highest-grossing Bollywood films from 2001 to 2005*


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## Novice09

*Shaheed Bhagat Singh*
Bhagat Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia








*Manmohan Singh*
Manmohan Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






*KPS Gill*
Kanwar Pal Singh Gill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






*Harbhajan Singh*
Harbhajan Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia











*Hope you got the answer*


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## Spring Onion

who had made this thread alive again?

what a silly question. Obviously the Indian Sikhs will support India and Pakistani Sikhs will support Pakistan


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## Chappal Chor

It is just for the sake of bashing and to make out useless and baseless arguments. as evident from the past no one is going to support pakistan in case of war with India from within India


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## Spring Onion

Spitfighter said:


> Its our movie industry so we can do as we please. Hows that?



Yeh we can see the height of complex in your not only moview industry but also in your TV industry wherein Indians show even dead women in full make up and tons of Gold wearing  

And on top of that Raja Mahraja sahab culture lolzz

Come on man India is not that shining.

Come out of the fake world.


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## Novice09

Jana said:


> who had made this thread alive again?
> 
> what a silly question. Obviously the Indian Sikhs will support India and Pakistani Sikhs will support Pakistan


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## jinxeD_girl

Jana said:


> *who had made this thread alive again?*



Iqbal_Brar


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## FireFighter

Sikhs will support the TURBAN!!!


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## Spitfighter

Jana said:


> Yeh we can see the height of complex in your not only moview industry but also in your TV industry wherein Indians show even dead women in full make up and tons of Gold wearing
> 
> And on top of that Raja Mahraja sahab culture lolzz
> 
> Come on man India is not that shining.
> 
> *Come out of the fake world.*



Well at least its our own fantasy, who's asking you guys to watch it? I don't understand why so many Pakistanis watch our movies anyway.

Our movies, our soaps, who's to stop us from making them as we please? 

Perhaps when Pakistanis start making their own movies/shows they can depict India more 'realistically'.

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## Iqbal_Brar

dvk1982 said:


> There cud be some truth to ur story but it is to bring to ur notice that when the first demographics in 1910 were conducted, sikhs and jains were considered as sub-sect of hindus , even religious leaders didn't protest it then (if u want source just google it), But i dont know if that is given as justification to not having a separate law for sikhs unlike muslims in india...



No, the British had a seperate Anand Karg act for the Sikhs. The Hindus were the ones which put us, along with Buddhists and Jains as sects of Hinduism in the Indian constitution. We don't care about having seperate law; all we want is to be stop branded as Hindus. But Indian constitution is anything but secular. Even the Indian army had a limit of number of sardar Sikhs being allowed to join. Sikhs, who did not want to cut their hair and grow bears can only join Sikh regiment, which had limited number of soldiers. You could not exceed that number. Other Sikhs had to be spread out across other regiments. Its probably only time where a quota in India has been put in place to restrict number of Sikhs. And than there is also case of RSS groups re-writing Sikh history books to favour Hinduism.


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## equiliz3r

Iqbal_Brar said:


> No, the British had a seperate Anand Karg act for the Sikhs. The Hindus were the ones which put us, along with Buddhists and Jains as sects of Hinduism in the Indian constitution. We don't care about having seperate law; all we want is to be stop branded as Hindus. But Indian constitution is anything but secular. Even the Indian army had a limit of number of sardar Sikhs being allowed to join. Sikhs, who did not want to cut their hair and grow bears can only join Sikh regiment, which had limited number of soldiers. You could not exceed that number. Other Sikhs had to be spread out across other regiments. Its probably only time where a quota in India has been put in place to restrict number of Sikhs. And than there is also case of RSS groups re-writing Sikh history books to favour Hinduism.



lol, in 12 regiments their are sikhs in India...................that also with turbans..

Who said only sikh regiment can have turbaned soldiers??????


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## RobbieS

Iqbal_Brar said:


> No, the British had a seperate Anand Karg act for the Sikhs. The Hindus were the ones which put us, along with Buddhists and Jains as sects of Hinduism in the Indian constitution. We don't care about having seperate law; all we want is to be stop branded as Hindus. But Indian constitution is anything but secular. Even the Indian army had a limit of number of sardar Sikhs being allowed to join. Sikhs, who did not want to cut their hair and grow bears can only join Sikh regiment, which had limited number of soldiers. You could not exceed that number. Other Sikhs had to be spread out across other regiments. Its probably only time where a quota in India has been put in place to restrict number of Sikhs. And than there is also case of RSS groups re-writing Sikh history books to favour Hinduism.



Check your sources bro. Two of my second cousins are Sikhs who have cut their hair are officers in the Indian army. 

Don't get me wrong bro but you gotta come down to India to see the real situation. And please dont feed me the RSS re-writing Sikh history cr@p. Sikhs are not so weak in India that they can't even protect their own history. Its not like our history is in any danger anyways.


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## Hulk

RobbieS said:


> Check your sources bro. Two of my second cousins are Sikhs who have cut their hair are officers in the Indian army.
> 
> Don't get me wrong bro but you gotta come down to India to see the real situation. And please dont feed me the RSS re-writing Sikh history cr@p. Sikhs are not so weak in India that they can't even protect their own history. Its not like our history is in any danger anyways.



The only way one can rewrite history is by making sure no one knows the other version, till then it will just be another version of history.


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## Iqbal_Brar

equiliz3r said:


> lol, in 12 regiments their are sikhs in India...................that also with turbans..
> 
> Who said only sikh regiment can have turbaned soldiers??????





RobbieS said:


> Check your sources bro. Two of my second cousins are Sikhs who have cut their hair are officers in the Indian army.
> 
> Don't get me wrong bro but you gotta come down to India to see the real situation. And please dont feed me the RSS re-writing Sikh history cr@p. Sikhs are not so weak in India that they can't even protect their own history. Its not like our history is in any danger anyways.



Your "Sikh" cousins would never qualify for Sikh regiment. Yes, I know there are sardars (who don't grow full beards and trim) and clean cut Sikhs in other regiments, but the real regiment, which has the Khalsas, the REAL Sikhs, is the Sikh regiment, and its numbers were limited by Indian government. In Sikh regiment, you are not allowed to cut even inch of hair, you are not allowed to bring alcohol or any drugs on the base, you must stricly adhere to the Rehat Maryada, the Sikh code of conduct. It is a deeply religious regiment. Infact, when Operation Bluestar happened, many soldiers of Sikh regiment at the HQs at Ramgarh in Bihar mutinied, killed their commander, General RS Puri, and started heading to Punjab with truckloads of weapons as they thought they had been betrayed by Indian army. Another Sikh unit deployed down south in Pune also rebelled. This led to the Indian army mixing many of the originally purely battalions into mixed Hindu-Sikh battalions (called Vaidya's Battalions, because General Vaidya came up with idea of diluting the Sikh regiments). Although, Sikhs managed to maintain their regiment, 13th Sikhs, still ended up being mixed and is called a "Vaidya Battalion". So I don't know if you guys are misinformed about Sikh regiment or what, but that is only a small insight.

As for RSS, attacking Sikh religion, its very much a reality: Rashtri Sikh Sangat RSS Hinduization


----------



## jinxeD_girl

Spitfighter said:


> This is from 2001? no wonder no one watches these movies, but hey, at least you're having fun.



*Teray Pyar Mein* was a big box office hit of 2001, it means many Pakistanis must have watched it. And who says NO ONE watches Pakistani Movies? I watch movies from all over the world, Iranian, Egyptian, Indian, Hollywood etc etc and ofcourse Pakistani... As far as Pakistani movies are concerned, I don't watch new ones.. only OLD B/W ones when Lollywood was at is Zenith.. the music of old Lollywood movies from 50s/60s is exceptional and many Lollywood songs have been copied by your film industry.. only *technically* they are inferior to Indian films...


----------



## jinxeD_girl

IMADreamer said:


> have you ever come in lucknow??if not then how can you sure that lucknow girlz wear ghararas at home??



Then what do Lucknow girls wear at home? Mini Skirts? 

Well whatever they wear... it is not my concern.. I was just guessing.. I was just stating the fact that none of the ethnic groups of Pakistan (except Urdu speakers) wear gararas at home.. even urdu speakers don't wear it anymore.. and Punjabis hardly speak "flowery urdu" as shown stereotypically in your films.. they usually mix punjabi words with urdu and have slight accent...


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## jinxeD_girl

Abhiras said:


> Gadar was made to *earn money* and it has done it fantastically ..
> *
> Gadar remained highest-grossing Bollywood films from 2001 to 2005*



Good! In other words... anti-Pakistani movies are biggest box-office earners in India!!


----------



## jinxeD_girl

Spitfighter said:


> I am done brushing with my teeth.. before I finally go to bed[/B]...


Yeah yeah! It was a typo.. you can forgive me for that.. instead of nitpicking on everything I say!  It was funny though!!


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## jinxeD_girl

IMADreamer said:


> Hahahaha "Hamari marzi" it's our industry??
> what we like we will do "Aapko kya"?
> 
> Himmat ho to Roak sako to roak lo.......



Who I am to stop you guyz!!  But it is little annoying to see many Indian films showing Pakistani girl or Muslim girl running away with Indian Sikh or Hindu

I mean why would a SANE Pakistani girl in her right mind would want to marry an Indian guy... let alone run away with him ? Most (with very few exceptions) Pakistani girls are ethnocentric and stick with their Pakistani men and Pakistani men are generally better looking than Indian men.

But Pakistani film makers are good at one thing though... They always show either Kashmiri Brahamin Girl (as shown in Lakhoun Mein Aik) falling in love with Muslim guy or Sikh girl (as in Teray Pyar Mein). Maybe the film makers know those are the only 2 girl groups which are kinda attractive in India  *I mean they never show girlz from Kerala falling in love with Pakistani men*


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## jinxeD_girl

Spitfighter said:


> More like Pakistani girl.



AND Muslim girl too! Bombay (1995) showed Indian Muslim girl falling in love with Hindu guy and the film was temporarily banned as Indian Muslims objected to that.


----------



## Chappal Chor

jinxeD_girl said:


> AND Muslim girl too! Bombay (1995) showed Indian Muslim girl falling in love with Hindu guy and the film was temporarily banned as Indian Muslims objected to that.



madam i have a smaller IQ

can you explain funda kya hai... what are you trying to say... I am still clueless from all your posts what are you trying to proove.

Indians are not good looking and pakistanis are?????????? 

Are bhai if pakistanis are good looking to theek hai but usse visa aasani se mil jaaayega or life ki problem solve ho jaayengi....


----------



## RobbieS

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Your "Sikh" cousins would never qualify for Sikh regiment. Yes, I know there are sardars (who don't grow full beards and trim) and clean cut Sikhs in other regiments, but the real regiment, which has the Khalsas, the REAL Sikhs, is the Sikh regiment, and its numbers were limited by Indian government. In Sikh regiment, you are not allowed to cut even inch of hair, you are not allowed to bring alcohol or any drugs on the base, you must stricly adhere to the Rehat Maryada, the Sikh code of conduct. It is a deeply religious regiment. Infact, when Operation Bluestar happened, many soldiers of Sikh regiment at the HQs at Ramgarh in Bihar mutinied, killed their commander, General RS Puri, and started heading to Punjab with truckloads of weapons as they thought they had been betrayed by Indian army. Another Sikh unit deployed down south in Pune also rebelled. This led to the Indian army mixing many of the originally purely battalions into mixed Hindu-Sikh battalions (called Vaidya's Battalions, because General Vaidya came up with idea of diluting the Sikh regiments). Although, Sikhs managed to maintain their regiment, 13th Sikhs, still ended up being mixed and is called a "Vaidya Battalion". So I don't know if you guys are misinformed about Sikh regiment or what, but that is only a small insight.
> 
> As for RSS, attacking Sikh religion, its very much a reality: Rashtri Sikh Sangat RSS Hinduization



I know about Vaidya's battalions and yes my cousins aren't in the Sikh regiment, And we dont see any problem with that. They are doing what they love and serving their nation at the same time.

Don't get me wrong bro, I dont want to read any pro-Khalistani stuff. The trouble with many of these people publishing such stiff is that they have been away from the ground realities for a long time. They are sitting in Amrika and Kaneda and think they know all about Sikhs in India.

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## jinxeD_girl

Chappal Chor said:


> madam i have a smaller IQ
> 
> can you explain funda kya hai...



Nothing... Some Indians try to act like smart a$$es and then I have to put them in their place... That is it!!


----------



## Iggy

jinxeD_girl said:


> Who I am to stop you guyz!!  But it is little annoying to see many Indian films showing Pakistani girl or Muslim girl running away with Indian Sikh or Hindu
> 
> I mean why would a SANE Pakistani girl in her right mind would want to marry an Indian guy... let alone run away with him ? Most (with very few exceptions) Pakistani girls are ethnocentric and stick with their Pakistani men and Pakistani men are generally better looking than Indian men.
> 
> But Pakistani film makers are good at one thing though... They always show either Kashmiri Brahamin Girl (as shown in Lakhoun Mein Aik) falling in love with Muslim guy or Sikh girl (as in Teray Pyar Mein). Maybe the film makers know those are the only 2 girl groups which are kinda attractive in India  *I mean they never show girlz from Kerala falling in love with Pakistani men*



Actually in a Malayalam movie there is one Pakistan Girl falling in love with a Malayalee guy..but the flim was boring and it flopped

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## LCA Tejas

seiko said:


> Actually in a Malayalam movie there is one Pakistan Girl falling in love with a Malayalee guy..*but the flim was boring and it flopped*



thats bcoz paistani girl was speaking malayalam


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## Iggy

LCA Tejas said:


> thats bcoz paistani girl was speaking malayalam



Exactly   and it was from one of the famous director here named Vinayan who is well known for making films who makes no sense  


BTW congrats senior member

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## LCA Tejas

seiko said:


> Exactly   and it was from one of the famous director here named Vinayan who is well known for making films who makes no sense
> 
> 
> BTW congrats senior member



Vinayan??? oh my god, he commited a blunder


----------



## jinxeD_girl

seiko said:


> Actually in a Malayalam movie there is one Pakistan Girl falling in love with a Malayalee guy..but the flim was boring and it flopped



I was talking about Pakistani films.. they never show a girl from Kerala falling in love with Pakistani guy... now that would make a very good comedy movie!!


----------



## Chappal Chor

jinxeD_girl said:


> Nothing... Some Indians try to act like smart a$$es and then I have to put them in their place... That is it!!



look wise ya non look wise...

Ask your pakistani frens if you are talking non look wise then we really had one smart a$$ which haunts them yet Chanakya aka CHankia


----------



## jinxeD_girl

seiko said:


> Actually in a Malayalam movie there is one Pakistan Girl falling in love with a Malayalee guy..but the flim was boring and it flopped



Oh God! I thought it was only Bollywood who was obsessed with Pakistanis... didn't know even South Indian film industries were obsessed with showing Pakistani girl with Malalayalalam guy.. 

What was the ending of the film? The girl stabs the malalayalalam guy 20 times with a knife and then kills herself too ? 

i don't even wanna know!!


----------



## jinxeD_girl

Chappal Chor said:


> look wise ya non look wise...
> 
> Ask your pakistani frens if you are talking non look wise then we really had one smart a$$ which haunts them yet Chanakya aka CHankia



I am talking non-look wise... 

look wise ahem ahem!! No comments!


----------



## Iggy

jinxeD_girl said:


> Oh God! I thought it was only Bollywood who was obsessed with Pakistanis... didn't know even South Indian film industries were obsessed with showing Pakistani girl with Malalayalalam guy..
> 
> What was the ending of the film? The girl stabs the malalayalalam guy 20 times with a knife and then kills herself too ?
> 
> i don't even wanna know!!



We are not obsessed ..its first of its kind and we throw it in dustbin  .. at the end she is carrying an Indian flag and saying Jai Hind repeatedly   ..as i said that director is a nut case..The funny thing is that Kerala guy is a prisoner in Pakistan and that girl is Generals daughter


----------



## jinxeD_girl

seiko said:


> We are not obsessed ..its first of its kind and we throw it in dustbin  .. at the end *she is carrying an Indian flag and saying Jai Hind repeatedly *  ..as i said that director is a nut case..The funny thing is that Kerala guy is a prisoner in Pakistan and that girl is Generals daughter



Really? That sounds funny!  What is the name of the movie? I wanna see this movie!!


----------



## Iggy

jinxeD_girl said:


> I was talking about Pakistani films.. they never show a girl from Kerala falling in love with Pakistani guy... now that would make a very good comedy movie!!



They should try it..apart from you many of us consider the beauty of the mind also..  ..dont tell me to explain it,...you wont understand it anyway..for you just good looking is enough ..

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## Chappal Chor

jinxeD_girl said:


> I am talking non-look wise...
> 
> look wise ahem ahem!! No comments!



na na you can go ahead............ look wise also......

after all we never got any beauty paegents.......


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## Iggy

jinxeD_girl said:


> Really? That sounds funny!  What is the name of the movie? I wanna see this movie!!



The movies name is WAR and LOVE  ..i recommend all his movies..it will be fun..dont blame me if you feel so depressed and feel like commiting suicide..these are the side effects of his films


----------



## jinxeD_girl

seiko said:


> They should try it.. ..



I will try it when I become a full fledged film maker..!! Now that I am grooming her, Priya 3 will be the most suitable choice for Kerala Girl - Pakistani Boy movie!!

But i don't want a happy ending...


----------



## Iggy

jinxeD_girl said:


> I will try it when I become a full fledged film maker..!! Now that I am grooming her, Priya 3 will be the most suitable choice for Kerala Girl - Pakistani Boy movie!!
> 
> But i don't want a happy ending...



You can always make Priya3 stabbing that Pakistan guy


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## jinxeD_girl

seiko said:


> You can always make Priya3 stabbing that Pakistan guy



^^^^^ But the part of Pakistani guy will also be played by Kerala boy.. as most Pakistani boyz would refuse...


----------



## Iggy

jinxeD_girl said:


> ^^^^^ But the part of Pakistani guy will also be played by Kerala boy.. as most Pakistani boyz would refuse...



But you were saying we southies all are blacks ..how come we play super looking fair and handsome Pakistan guys

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## jinxeD_girl

seiko said:


> But you were saying we southies all are blacks ..how come we play super looking fair and handsome Pakistan guys



There are some exceptions like Milind Soman. I am sure I will be able to find one good looking Southie guy among millions... Don't you think so? All I have to do is to launch a nation wide publicity campaign for my film.

Otherwise, we can always use Bollywood actors! So Priya 3 ends up stabbing her own kind...


----------



## LCA Tejas

jinxeD_girl said:


> There are some exceptions like Milind Soman. I am sure I will be able to find one good looking Southie guy among millions... Don't you think so? All I have to do is to launch a nation wide publicity campaign for my film.
> 
> Otherwise, we can always use Bollywood actors! So Priya 3 ends up stabbing her own kind...



hey how did you forget our super star , Is this guy enough for your super film

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## jinxeD_girl

LCA Tejas said:


> hey how did you forget our super star , Is this guy enough for your super film



 No, I would prefer Rajni Kanth over him.. atleast he has some star value!

http://img718.imageshack.us/i/rajnikanth.jpg/


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## LCA Tejas

jinxeD_girl said:


> No, I would prefer Rajni Kanth over him.. atleast he has some star value!
> 
> http://img718.imageshack.us/i/rajnikanth.jpg/


*Yeah*


----------



## Iggy

LCA Tejas said:


> hey how did you forget our super star , Is this guy enough for your super film



His son is also a good choice ,...but need some 'PUNCH' dialogues

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## equiliz3r

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Your "Sikh" cousins would never qualify for Sikh regiment. Yes, I know there are sardars (who don't grow full beards and trim) and clean cut Sikhs in other regiments, but the real regiment, which has the Khalsas, the REAL Sikhs, is the Sikh regiment, and its numbers were limited by Indian government. In Sikh regiment, you are not allowed to cut even inch of hair, you are not allowed to bring alcohol or any drugs on the base, you must stricly adhere to the Rehat Maryada, the Sikh code of conduct. It is a deeply religious regiment. Infact, when Operation Bluestar happened, many soldiers of Sikh regiment at the HQs at Ramgarh in Bihar mutinied, killed their commander, General RS Puri, and started heading to Punjab with truckloads of weapons as they thought they had been betrayed by Indian army. Another Sikh unit deployed down south in Pune also rebelled. This led to the Indian army mixing many of the originally purely battalions into mixed Hindu-Sikh battalions (called Vaidya's Battalions, because General Vaidya came up with idea of diluting the Sikh regiments). Although, Sikhs managed to maintain their regiment, 13th Sikhs, still ended up being mixed and is called a "Vaidya Battalion". So I don't know if you guys are misinformed about Sikh regiment or what, but that is only a small insight.
> 
> As for RSS, attacking Sikh religion, its very much a reality: Rashtri Sikh Sangat RSS Hinduization



hahahaaha.................lol, My cousins are very young to go for army.....................but mine one friend friend is in army that also in sikh regiment currently in ambala.

My uncle was sargent in Parachute regiment............and dude he had his turban in the army.

You keep your idiotic khalistani views in ur brain .............dont try to destroy Punjab.
and to hell with RSS (Randi supply service)..........no one gives a dam to them in punjab.....half of the punjabis didnt even know the heck is it.

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## Iqbal_Brar

equiliz3r said:


> hahahaaha.................lol, My cousins are very young to go for army.....................but mine one friend friend is in army that also in sikh regiment currently in ambala.
> 
> My uncle was sargent in Parachute regiment............and dude he had his turban in the army.
> 
> You keep your idiotic khalistani views in ur brain .............dont try to destroy Punjab.
> and to hell with RSS (Randi supply service)..........no one gives a dam to them in punjab.....half of the punjabis didnt even know the heck is it.



equilizer, you think laughing and putting smiley faces will make u look smarter? well it doesn't. I gave you hard facts which you can even google if you do not know. but all you tell me is my uncle this.. my friend that... i don't care what your mommy daddy or uncle say, present facts to the discussion. And as for Parachute regiment; the paratroopers are a special forces unit; they take people from all the different regiments in the army. They would be stupid to not pick soldiers from Sikh regiment. Sikhs are some of the best soldiers.



RobbieS said:


> I know about Vaidya's battalions and yes my cousins aren't in the Sikh regiment, And we dont see any problem with that. They are doing what they love and serving their nation at the same time.
> 
> Don't get me wrong bro, I dont want to read any pro-Khalistani stuff. The trouble with many of these people publishing such stiff is that they have been away from the ground realities for a long time. They are sitting in Amrika and Kaneda and think they know all about Sikhs in India.



I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT KHALISTAN!!! How come everytime a Sikh talks against all the discrimination we go through in India, he is branded as a "terrorist" or an "extremist"??? First of all, Not All Sikhs believe that Khalistan is the solution ok??? Even an autonomous Sikh state within India is perfectly fine. But look at Punjab today, it is filled with Hindu Bhaiyas from Bihar and UP. Whatever happened to the so called Punjabi subba which Sikhs fought for so hard??? And what are you talking of Kaneda and Amrika?? You think all this is happening in Kaneda and Amrika?? 

THESE PICTURES ARE *FROM PUNJAB ONLY 4-5 MONTHS BACK*:












These protests DID NOT happen in Amrika or Kaneda!! They happened in PUNJAB. Sikhs are FRUSTRATED!! The protests were against the lack of justice for Sikhs (the one in november) and the second series of protests, when the army had to be called in, was against the RSS and BJP backed Hindu Bihari baba setting up a camp on Punjabi soil. And than you say stupid stuff about no one in Punjab has heard of RSS. People know about the dirty antics of these RSS bhaiyas.. I think you are the one who should take a trip out of Kaneda or Amrika and come visit Punjab!!


----------



## Sino-PakFriendship

slugger said:


> Indian Sikhs are *Indian*
> 
> For proof of this do check out our list of *COAS*, Lt. Gen, Maj Gen, and corresponding ranks in the air Force and Navy as also Coast Guard the BSF, the police force
> 
> *Our Sikh regiments and their involvement* are well documented and a source of immense pride and joy comfort for the citzens of *India*
> 
> The exploits of the *Sikh Light Infantary* are well-documented by those very sources quoted by members of Pakistan to support their statements here on this forum
> 
> To illustrate the faith that Indian have on a fellow Indian who follows the tenets of Sikhism - the incumbent Prime Minister of India *Dr. Manmohan Singh* is a Sikh. It i source of pride for the country that a perso as educated as *Dr. Singh* is heading the country
> 
> As for his contribution toward the cause of India's economic progress & development, his 92-93 liberalistaion policy recieved endorsement from yet another Nobel laureate *Joseph E. Stiglizt *who commended India'seffective and efficient policy of liberalisation [intiated by *Dr. Singh*]
> *India didn't follow mindless liberalisation: Joseph Stiglitz*
> 
> Let me repeat it once more
> 
> Indian Sikh is an *Indian*



Same as Tibetan in China are Chinese!

Tibetan in India are terrorists!


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## Chappal Chor

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> Same as Tibetan in China are Chinese!
> 
> Tibetan in India are terrorists!



Please ellaborate about what all terrorist activities they have been involved apart from meeting world leaders and demanding more rights.


----------



## RobbieS

Iqbal_Brar said:


> I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT KHALISTAN!!! How come everytime a Sikh talks against all the discrimination we go through in India, he is branded as a "terrorist" or an "extremist"??? First of all, Not All Sikhs believe that Khalistan is the solution ok??? Even an autonomous Sikh state within India is perfectly fine. But look at Punjab today, it is filled with Hindu Bhaiyas from Bihar and UP. Whatever happened to the so called Punjabi subba which Sikhs fought for so hard??? And what are you talking of Kaneda and Amrika?? You think all this is happening in Kaneda and Amrika??
> 
> 
> These protests DID NOT happen in Amrika or Kaneda!! They happened in PUNJAB. Sikhs are FRUSTRATED!! The protests were against the lack of justice for Sikhs (the one in november) and the second series of protests, when the army had to be called in, was against the RSS and BJP backed Hindu Bihari baba setting up a camp on Punjabi soil. And than you say stupid stuff about no one in Punjab has heard of RSS. People know about the dirty antics of these RSS bhaiyas.. I think you are the one who should take a trip out of Kaneda or Amrika and come visit Punjab!!



Brar veer, do u want to know the hard truth? Do you really want to know why there is an influx of people from UP and Bihar into Punjab. I bet if you'd have dug a bit deep you would have figured it out yourself.

Nobody was forced into Punjab. Those people came because there was a demand for their manual labour in agriculture and in small scale industrial units dotting Ludiana-Jalandhar belt. Do you think we Sikhs were willing to do that work? We were happy to sit back and enjoy the fruits of our lands without doing manual labour. Today no Sikh youth is happy doing agricultual work. Some of them just manage and oversee it but dream of getting rid of it and move to cities. The somewhat educated have moved to foreign shores while the well educated have moved to metros like Delhi and Bangalore for professional jobs. And this has been happening for the past 3 decades, ever since the green revolution was ushered in. How do you think agriculture, the mainstay of the Punjab economy was surviving for these past 3 decades. It was these very Bhaiyyas who were doing it.


The same is the story with small scale industries. The farm and industrial equipment manufacturers employ these people in huge numbers. Reason being cheaper rates for their labour and easier availability.

And I agree with you when you say that the cultural fabric of Punjab is changing due to these Hindi speaking people. But these people are just filling in a skill gap in the economy. And I dont fault only the Central govt. for that. Who do you think is in power in the state? The supposed torch-bearers of the Sikh Quam- The Akalis! It is our own fault bro and the times that we live in. Wasn't it the responsibility of the state govt. to develop industry within the state? 99% of those who have passed out Punjab's engineering colleges are employed outside the state. Punjab doesn't have a B-school in top 30 B-schools in India. And I know all of this because I belong to both of these educational groups.

And what is a Sikh today bro? According to SGPC figures more than half of Sikhs today have shorn-hair. The figure is close to 70% for those in the age group of 15-30. Where is our pride in our turbans? Punjab today is wallowing in drugs. Our rural youth cant look beyond Bhukki, Afeem and Phensy and the urban not beyond Cocaine. Where are our education levels? Our per capita income is the highest in India but we are amongst the average states when it comes to education. We Sikhs and Punjabis need to take a deep look within ourselves bro.....


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## SinoIndusFriendship

Iqbal_Brar said:


> equilizer, you think laughing and putting smiley faces will make u look smarter? well it doesn't. I gave you hard facts which you can even google if you do not know. but all you tell me is my uncle this.. my friend that... i don't care what your mommy daddy or uncle say, present facts to the discussion. And as for Parachute regiment; the paratroopers are a special forces unit; they take people from all the different regiments in the army. They would be stupid to not pick soldiers from Sikh regiment. Sikhs are some of the best soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT KHALISTAN!!! How come everytime a Sikh talks against all the discrimination we go through in India, he is branded as a "terrorist" or an "extremist"??? First of all, Not All Sikhs believe that Khalistan is the solution ok??? Even an autonomous Sikh state within India is perfectly fine. But look at Punjab today, it is filled with Hindu Bhaiyas from Bihar and UP. Whatever happened to the so called Punjabi subba which Sikhs fought for so hard??? And what are you talking of Kaneda and Amrika?? You think all this is happening in Kaneda and Amrika??
> 
> THESE PICTURES ARE *FROM PUNJAB ONLY 4-5 MONTHS BACK*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These protests DID NOT happen in Amrika or Kaneda!! They happened in PUNJAB. Sikhs are FRUSTRATED!! The protests were against the lack of justice for Sikhs (the one in november) and the second series of protests, when the army had to be called in, was against the RSS and BJP backed Hindu Bihari baba setting up a camp on Punjabi soil. And than you say stupid stuff about no one in Punjab has heard of RSS. People know about the dirty antics of these RSS bhaiyas.. I think you are the one who should take a trip out of Kaneda or Amrika and come visit Punjab!!



Repeatedly Hindus give reassurances that everything is "peaceful", "prosperous" and "well", but the *stark realities tell otherwise.*


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## equiliz3r

Iqbal_Brar said:


> equilizer, you think laughing and putting smiley faces will make u look smarter? well it doesn't. I gave you hard facts which you can even google if you do not know. but all you tell me is my uncle this.. my friend that... i don't care what your mommy daddy or uncle say, present facts to the discussion. And as for Parachute regiment; the paratroopers are a special forces unit; they take people from all the different regiments in the army. They would be stupid to not pick soldiers from Sikh regiment. Sikhs are some of the best soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT KHALISTAN!!! How come everytime a Sikh talks against all the discrimination we go through in India, he is branded as a "terrorist" or an "extremist"??? First of all, Not All Sikhs believe that Khalistan is the solution ok??? Even an autonomous Sikh state within India is perfectly fine. But look at Punjab today, it is filled with Hindu Bhaiyas from Bihar and UP. Whatever happened to the so called Punjabi subba which Sikhs fought for so hard??? And what are you talking of Kaneda and Amrika?? You think all this is happening in Kaneda and Amrika??
> 
> THESE PICTURES ARE *FROM PUNJAB ONLY 4-5 MONTHS BACK*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These protests DID NOT happen in Amrika or Kaneda!! They happened in PUNJAB. Sikhs are FRUSTRATED!! The protests were against the lack of justice for Sikhs (the one in november) and the second series of protests, when the army had to be called in, was against the RSS and BJP backed Hindu Bihari baba setting up a camp on Punjabi soil. And than you say stupid stuff about no one in Punjab has heard of RSS. People know about the dirty antics of these RSS bhaiyas.. I think you are the one who should take a trip out of Kaneda or Amrika and come visit Punjab!!



oh mera khalistani veer pagal ho geya..................mixing pics......

some are of samarala chowk of ludhiana where police used force when they were attacked by swords...............I was there .......watched whole show live...................Firing was justified.............poor policeman too have life.
And that thing was not related to riots or anything but for a gandu sant who was going to hold satsang near chownk.
hahahahaha.............twisting facts can be learned from you

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Spitfighter

jinxeD_girl said:


> AND Muslim girl too! Bombay (1995) showed Indian Muslim girl falling in love with Hindu guy and the film was temporarily banned as Indian Muslims objected to that.



Lol, for someone that hates Indians as much as you do, you sure as hell love our movies. 

So how many people watch our soaps in your family? I know you guys can't get enough of those either.

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## SiegHeil

Jana said:


> Yeh we can see the height of complex in your not only moview industry but also in your TV industry wherein Indians show even dead women in full make up and tons of Gold wearing
> 
> And on top of that Raja Mahraja sahab culture lolzz
> 
> Come on man India is not that shining.
> 
> Come out of the fake world.




why dont you preach the americans that they shoulnt make movies like 
SUPER TROOPERS=dosent represent the true state of highway patrol
AMERICAN PIE= dosent represent THE REAL COLLEGE LIFE
RAMBO= cant be true
etc
The Young and the Restless 
have you signed some contract with ISI to defame india?

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## SiegHeil

jinxeD_girl said:


> I mean why would a SANE Pakistani girl in her right mind would want to marry an Indian guy... let alone run away with him ? Most (with very few exceptions) Pakistani girls are ethnocentric and stick with their Pakistani men



Not pakistani but the only child of your Quaid-i-Azam did infact marry an indian.



> Pakistani men are generally better looking than Indian men.


lick em as much as you please.



> But Pakistani film makers are good at one thing though... They always show either Kashmiri Brahamin Girl (as shown in Lakhoun Mein Aik) falling in love with Muslim guy or Sikh girl (as in Teray Pyar Mein). Maybe the film makers know those are the only 2 girl groups which are kinda attractive in India  *I mean they never show girlz from Kerala falling in love with Pakistani men*


tell me the truth do you love your parents?

IF YES i bet your father must be like WILL SMITH naah he is ugly(black)mmmm GEORGE CLOONEY and your mother might be like CAMEROON DIAZ COZ otherwise you would have thrown them out of your country.

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## Sino-PakFriendship

Chappal Chor said:


> Please ellaborate about what all terrorist activities they have been involved apart from meeting world leaders and demanding more rights.



One side's freedom fighters = Another sides's terrorists

This is a unchanged law of politics!


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## Chappal Chor

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> One side's freedom fighters = Another sides's terrorists
> 
> This is a unchanged law of politics!



I did not asked the defination i asked for the reasons what are the demands of Tibetians which are not acceptable


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## Sino-PakFriendship

Chappal Chor said:


> I did not asked the defination i asked for the reasons what are the demands of Tibetians which are not acceptable



overseas exile Tibetan claims Independence, China must not allow!

Likewise, overseas exile Sikh and Kashmir people claims Independence, India must not allow!

Please don't use Western Whites' hypocrisy and double standards on Chinese problem!


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## Chappal Chor

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> overseas exile Tibetan claims Independence, China must not allow!
> 
> Likewise, overseas exile Sikh and Kashmir people claims Independence, India must not allow!
> 
> Please don't use Western Whites' hypocrisy and double standards on Chinese problem!



and who said that......... please keep informed. Dalai Lama has long back accepted the rule of china over Tibet. 

Please tell the demands which are unacceptable. 

Independence thing has already been sorted out.


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## RobbieS

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> overseas exile Tibetan claims Independence, China must not allow!
> 
> Likewise, overseas exile Sikh and Kashmir people claims Independence, India must not allow!



Pretty valid argument.


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## Sino-PakFriendship

Chappal Chor said:


> and who said that......... please keep informed. Dalai Lama has long back accepted the rule of china over Tibet.
> 
> Please tell the demands which are unacceptable.
> 
> Independence thing has already been sorted out.




China was semi-colonized and quasi-fragmentation by

1. Tzarist Russia, USSR
2. Imperial Jap
3. UK
4. France
5. USA
6. Portugal

So, most of Chinese people hate Western Whites and Jap on Chinese territorial problem.

Now many territorial dispute of China with Jap / India / Vietnam because of this!


Perhaps evil Western Whites and Jap forget this history, but most of Chinese still remember!


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## Chappal Chor

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> China was semi-colonized and quasi-fragmentation by
> 
> 1. Tzarist Russia, USSR
> 2. Imperial Jap
> 3. UK
> 4. France
> 5. USA
> 6. Portugal
> 
> So, most of Chinese people hate Western Whites and Jap on Chinese territorial problem.
> 
> Now many territorial dispute of China with Jap / India / Vietnam because of this!
> 
> 
> Perhaps evil Western Whites and Jap forget this history, but most of Chinese still remember!



I agree with you


but that does not answer my question...... please i would be delighted if you could answer.


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## Sino-PakFriendship

Chappal Chor said:


> I agree with you
> 
> 
> but that does not answer my question...... please i would be delighted if you could answer.



I only tell you that

Conspiracy of Western Whites, Jap, India, exile Tibetan and East Turkistan terrorists will cause Chinese peoples more united!


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## Chappal Chor

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> I only tell you that
> 
> Conspiracy of Wetsern Whites, Jap, India, exile Tibetan and East Turkistan terrorists will cause Chinese peoples more united!



No offense intended but the ground reality is that there is nothing left for the Tibet issue... the china wants to govern it and dalai lama accepts it. what he wants is more autonomy for its own people. when he say that he means he wants the people to choose the religious leaders not the government. but in doing so the government feels that they would not have the control over the religious centers and they wont be present in the government circles. that is the main problem. *now do you think it is justified if government tells you who is holy? let the people choose as per their traditons....*

The chinese media within china has been potraying him as someone who wants independence but the reality is totally different and hidden from the people of china. 


mate it is dirty politics not the conspiracy against china.


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## Sino-PakFriendship

Chappal Chor said:


> No offense intended but the ground reality is that there is nothing left for the Tibet issue... the china wants to govern it and dalai lama accepts it. what he wants is more autonomy for its own people. when he say that he means he wants the people to choose the religious leaders not the government. but in doing so the government feels that they would not have the control over the religious centers and they wont be present in the government circles. that is the main problem.
> 
> The chinese media within china has been potraying him as someone who wants independence but the reality is totally different and hidden from the people of china.
> 
> 
> mate it is dirty politics not the conspiracy against china.





Several evil Western White's and Indian historian try to revert the history that TIBET IS NEVER PART OF CHINA!


Evil British dogs help Unity of India (Before British invasion, India was of many states and tribes.) But split China (Hong Kong, Tibet)
This is the main problem.


----------



## Chappal Chor

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> Several evil Western White's and Indian historian try to revert the history that TIBET IS NEVER PART OF CHINA!
> 
> 
> Evil British dogs help Unity of India (Before British invasion, India was of many states and tribes.) But split China (Hong Kong, Tibet)
> This is the main problem.





Mate here you are wrong. Indians consider tibet as the part of china and it is.....

British even left no stone to divide india, it was indian diplomacy that india got united as otherwise right was given to all the states to declare independece and there would have been 30 india back then instead of 30 states.


----------



## Sino-PakFriendship

Chappal Chor said:


> Mate here you are wrong. Indians consider tibet as the part of china and it is.....
> 
> British even left no stone to divide india, it was indian diplomacy that india got united as otherwise right was given to all the states to declare independece and there would have been 30 india back then instead of 30 states.



In 1840s,

Tibet was parts of Qing Dynasty (China)

But India was just a groups of seperate state and tribes


----------



## Chappal Chor

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> In 1840s,
> 
> Tibet was parts of Qing Dynasty (China)
> 
> But India was just a groups of seperate state and tribes



yes it was and TIbet is still the part of china who said it isnt?


----------



## Sino-PakFriendship

UNPO is Western Whites and Indian minion groups!

IWe Chinese must boycott this rubbish group!


----------



## equiliz3r

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> In 1840s,
> 
> Tibet was parts of Qing Dynasty (China)
> 
> But India was just a groups of seperate state and tribes



oh boy go learn about King Asoka the great

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## Iqbal_Brar

RobbieS said:


> Brar veer, do u want to know the hard truth? Do you really want to know why there is an influx of people from UP and Bihar into Punjab. I bet if you'd have dug a bit deep you would have figured it out yourself.
> 
> Nobody was forced into Punjab. Those people came because there was a demand for their manual labour in agriculture and in small scale industrial units dotting Ludiana-Jalandhar belt. Do you think we Sikhs were willing to do that work? We were happy to sit back and enjoy the fruits of our lands without doing manual labour. Today no Sikh youth is happy doing agricultual work. Some of them just manage and oversee it but dream of getting rid of it and move to cities. The somewhat educated have moved to foreign shores while the well educated have moved to metros like Delhi and Bangalore for professional jobs. And this has been happening for the past 3 decades, ever since the green revolution was ushered in. How do you think agriculture, the mainstay of the Punjab economy was surviving for these past 3 decades. It was these very Bhaiyyas who were doing it.
> 
> The same is the story with small scale industries. The farm and industrial equipment manufacturers employ these people in huge numbers. Reason being cheaper rates for their labour and easier availability.



Punjabis _need_ that agriculture to survive. You really think that if Biharis did not come over and started doing _daharis_ for 100Rs/day, it would not have been done by Punjabis? The Punjabis would be FORCED to do it. As for Punjabis migrating, its true, tens of thousands migrate every year, but millions stay back!! As for overseeing the work, yes sure, whats wrong with that? On our farms, either my dad or uncles go to the village to oversee the farming as we live in the city, but all the hired people are local Punjabi villagers, _not_ Bihari or UP Bhaiyas.



> And I agree with you when you say that the cultural fabric of Punjab is changing due to these Hindi speaking people. But these people are just filling in a skill gap in the economy. And I dont fault only the Central govt. for that. Who do you think is in power in the state? The supposed torch-bearers of the Sikh Quam- The Akalis! It is our own fault bro and the times that we live in. Wasn't it the responsibility of the state govt. to develop industry within the state? 99% of those who have passed out Punjab's engineering colleges are employed outside the state. Punjab doesn't have a B-school in top 30 B-schools in India. And I know all of this because I belong to both of these educational groups.



*BADAL'S AKALIS DO NOT REPRESENT SIKHS!!!!* His Akalis only represent 3 people:













Thats it! Thats all they represent!! THE BADAL FAMILY!!! They are corrupt power hungry Sikh kaum de Gaddaar!!

Here is the so-called "Sikh" Badal with his Hindu RSS friends:





Here is the so-called "Sikh" Badal with his Ram Rahim friend:


How can he represent the Sikh kaum when he falls at the feet of the enemies of the Sikhs???  He is nothing but a corrupt power hungry gaddaar!! To this date, he had not presented his views on anything relating to Bhindrawala to Operation Bluestar to Delhi riots.. All he cares about is votes, and he knows that if he presents his views on those topics, he will loose votes either way.. what kind of an ideological leader is that?? He is not!! He has no ideology, no policy, his only policy and ideology is pro-power. Anything that will being him to power he will do.. even if it means selling his own mother..

BOTH RSS and that monkey Ram Rahim of Dera Sacha Sauda are responsible for so much unrest and discontent in Punjab!! They continue to provoke the Sikhs, and when Sikhs react angrily, these assholes are given high security protection but the Sikhs are beaten and shot by the Police!! 

Sadly in Punjab people have NO choice but only Akali party and Congress party. It is a see-saw between these two parties. Every election, one comes, the other goes. NONE of these parties can fix Punjab's water problems, electricity problems and expenses problem. That is why the Congress got the boot!! And come next elections, it will be turn of Akalis to get kicked out and come back in Congress. Stupidest 2 party monopoly in the world!! The only supposedly sane choice is Akali (Mann), but SS Mann is so stuck up on the Khalistan issue that he too does not offer any solutions to Punjab's current problems.



> And what is a Sikh today bro? According to SGPC figures more than half of Sikhs today have shorn-hair. The figure is close to 70% for those in the age group of 15-30. Where is our pride in our turbans? Punjab today is wallowing in drugs. Our rural youth cant look beyond Bhukki, Afeem and Phensy and the urban not beyond Cocaine. Where are our education levels? Our per capita income is the highest in India but we are amongst the average states when it comes to education. We Sikhs and Punjabis need to take a deep look within ourselves bro.....



THANK YOU!!! And I TOTALLY agree with you!!! But simply look back! Look at the generation *before* us!! Look at our parents and grandparents, they were PROUD Sardars! What do you think happened?? In the 80s and 90s, baptism to the Sikh religion was hugely discouraged by Sikh parents because they did not want their sons to be rounded up by the army and the police and shot dead. And that was a common practice in the 80s and 90s. Just look at districts like Gurdaspur and Ferozepur, where in many villages, there whole male population was wiped out!! Being a baptised Sikh automatically meant being an "extremist" Sikh by the army.. the Police would look at you with suspicion! And besides a baptised young Sikh boy could much easily pass off as a terrorist than a non-baptised Sikh. The police, which got medals for killing terrorists, had a field day rounding up innocent baptised Sikhs and killing them, and than collecting bag fulls of medals and promotions! Even you know this is true!! And than just take a look at the propaganda war against Sikhs.. Hinduan ne Sikhan da majaak banna ke rakh ditta.. appe dekh laa bollywood movies de vich kiven sardaran nu sheran toh joker banna ke rakh ditta!! Bollywood went all the way trying to show Sardars as clowns and trying to ashame young Sikh boys into cutting their hair!!


----------



## Sino-PakFriendship

We don't want and try to split any existing country, but we also don't allow any other (Small Jap and Kor, Western Whites, India and Islamic extremists) to split our country!


----------



## Iqbal_Brar

equiliz3r said:


> oh mera khalistani veer pagal ho geya..................mixing pics......
> 
> some are of samarala chowk of ludhiana where police used force when they were attacked by swords...............I was there .......watched whole show live...................Firing was justified.............poor policeman too have life.
> And that thing was not related to riots or anything but for a gandu sant who was going to hold satsang near chownk.
> hahahahaha.............twisting facts can be learned from you



janaab pehla anni bakwaas karan toh pehla meri post padd vi leya karo!!



Iqbal_Brar said:


> The protests were against the lack of justice for Sikhs (the one in november) and *the second series of protests, when the army had to be called in, was against the RSS and BJP backed Hindu Bihari baba setting up a camp on Punjabi soil.*



So next time try READING my post before typing stupid things. I had already explained where the pictures were from!!


----------



## Iqbal_Brar

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> We don't want and try to split any existing country, but we also don't allow any other (Small Jap and Kor, Western Whites, India and Islamic extremists) to split our country!



Good for you buddy! Now can you stop hijacking this thread?? Go make one on Tibetans and China if you want to discuss that.


----------



## Sino-PakFriendship

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Good for you buddy! Now can you stop hijacking this thread?? Go make one on Tibetans and China if you want to discuss that.





Western Whites especially Nazi German has hijacked China for more than 100 years!


----------



## RobbieS

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> Western Whites especially Nazi German has hijacked China for more than 100 years!



As Brar said, please do not hijack this thread. Let us discuss our own issues.


----------



## SinoIndusFriendship

RobbieS said:


> As Brar said, please do not hijack this thread. Let us discuss our own issues.



Fair enough. Judging from the recent protests and history of resistance, the Sikhs appear more inclined towards Pakistan than India -- but overall they seem to want INDEPENDENCE FROM BOTH nations, aka Khalistan.

Do I think Khalistan will succeed within the next 5 years? No, because any uprising will be crushed. Will Khalistan become a reality in 10 years? Possible, especially considering Delhi's weakening grip. A similar thing can be seen in the UK for example:

- Scotland is already putting the issue of sovereignty in their referendums

- Northern Ireland has been voted to move judicial and police power back to Dublin, much to the dismay of London

- Regionalism in England is at a boiling point

- Racial, Ethnic & Religious tensions among the different groups are at an all time high

- Maldives will soon be liberated. Argentina has the FULL support of regional nations and the international community at large

Thus, the break-up of Britain is eminent in the next 5-10 years.


----------



## RobbieS

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Fair enough. Judging from the recent protests and history of resistance, the Sikhs appear more inclined towards Pakistan than India -- but overall they seem to want INDEPENDENCE FROM BOTH nations, aka Khalistan.
> 
> Do I think Khalistan will succeed within the next 5 years? No, because any uprising will be crushed. Will Khalistan become a reality in 10 years? Possible, especially considering Delhi's weakening grip. A similar thing can be seen in the UK for example:
> 
> - Scotland is already putting the issue of sovereignty in their referendums
> 
> - Northern Ireland has been voted to move judicial and police power back to Dublin, much to the dismay of London
> 
> - Regionalism in England is at a boiling point
> 
> - Racial, Ethnic & Religious tensions among the different groups are at an all time high
> 
> - *Maldives will soon be liberated.* Argentina has the FULL support of regional nations and the international community at large
> 
> Thus, the break-up of Britain is eminent in the next 5-10 years.



Thank you for your views. You seem to be quite an expert on Sikh affairs. You put too much emphasis on history and less on the views of the present Sikh population in India. Thats where your assumptions are wrong.

Btw. Maldives is an independent country. I think you meant the Falklands.

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## SinoIndusFriendship

RobbieS said:


> Thank you for your views. You seem to be quite an expert on Sikh affairs. You put too much emphasis on history and less on the views of the present Sikh population in India. Thats where your assumptions are wrong.
> 
> Btw. Maldives is an independent country. I think you meant the Falklands.



Yes, it meant Malvinas.


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## paritosh

@topic...
The Indian army has the largest representation by Sikhs...why would they enlist if they didn't want to fight for their land?
There are unhappy and discontented sikhs in India as there are unhappy and discontented Hindus in India...doesn't mean that they'd give up their patriotism and their faith on their motherland...


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## Iqbal_Brar

Why did RobbieS get banned??? What a shame, the one guy who had the brains to discuss something here ends up getting banned.


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## RobbieS

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Why did RobbieS get banned??? What a shame, the one guy who had the brains to discuss something here ends up getting banned.



I ain't banned bro. I guess you got me mixed up with somebody else. And I am surely going to post a thoughtful reply to your post and continue our discussion.


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## MIG_ACE

According to Wikipedia,

Sikhs make up 1015% of all ranks in the Indian Army and 20% of its officers, whilst Sikhs only forming 1.87% of the Indian population, which makes them over *10 times more likely to be a soldier and officer in the Indian Army than the average Indian.*

Now close the thread.

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## RobbieS

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Punjabis _need_ that agriculture to survive. You really think that if Biharis did not come over and started doing _daharis_ for 100Rs/day, it would not have been done by Punjabis? The Punjabis would be FORCED to do it. As for Punjabis migrating, its true, tens of thousands migrate every year, but millions stay back!! As for overseeing the work, yes sure, whats wrong with that? On our farms, either my dad or uncles go to the village to oversee the farming as we live in the city, but all the hired people are local Punjabi villagers, _not_ Bihari or UP Bhaiyas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would have been done bro, but at a higher cost. Our earnings wouldn't have been the same. And our profits margins would have dipped.
> 
> And may be your uncles manage the farms and employ Punjabis but when the crunch time of harvesting or sowing arrives, these bhaiyyas are the ones who do the job.
> 
> 
> 
> *BADAL'S AKALIS DO NOT REPRESENT SIKHS!!!!* His Akalis only represent 3 people:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats it! Thats all they represent!! THE BADAL FAMILY!!! They are corrupt power hungry Sikh kaum de Gaddaar!!
> 
> How can he represent the Sikh kaum when he falls at the feet of the enemies of the Sikhs???  He is nothing but a corrupt power hungry gaddaar!! To this date, he had not presented his views on anything relating to Bhindrawala to Operation Bluestar to Delhi riots.. All he cares about is votes, and he knows that if he presents his views on those topics, he will loose votes either way.. what kind of an ideological leader is that?? He is not!! He has no ideology, no policy, his only policy and ideology is pro-power. Anything that will being him to power he will do.. even if it means selling his own mother.
> 
> BOTH RSS and that monkey Ram Rahim of Dera Sacha Sauda are responsible for so much unrest and discontent in Punjab!! They continue to provoke the Sikhs, and when Sikhs react angrily, these assholes are given high security protection but the Sikhs are beaten and shot by the Police!!
> 
> Sadly in Punjab people have NO choice but only Akali party and Congress party. It is a see-saw between these two parties. Every election, one comes, the other goes. NONE of these parties can fix Punjab's water problems, electricity problems and expenses problem. That is why the Congress got the boot!! And come next elections, it will be turn of Akalis to get kicked out and come back in Congress. Stupidest 2 party monopoly in the world!! The only supposedly sane choice is Akali (Mann), but SS Mann is so stuck up on the Khalistan issue that he too does not offer any solutions to Punjab's current problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not a fan of the Badals bro, but you know what? I voted for Harsimrat Badal during last year's Lok Sabha elections. Thats because as you said, I had no choice. And as every bone in my body revolted against pressing the button against the symbol of Panja (hand) of the Congress, I pressed against the Takdi of the Akalis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!!! And I TOTALLY agree with you!!! But simply look back! Look at the generation *before* us!! Look at our parents and grandparents, they were PROUD Sardars! What do you think happened?? In the 80s and 90s, baptism to the Sikh religion was hugely discouraged by Sikh parents because they did not want their sons to be rounded up by the army and the police and shot dead. And that was a common practice in the 80s and 90s. Just look at districts like Gurdaspur and Ferozepur, where in many villages, there whole male population was wiped out!! Being a baptised Sikh automatically meant being an "extremist" Sikh by the army.. the Police would look at you with suspicion! And besides a baptised young Sikh boy could much easily pass off as a terrorist than a non-baptised Sikh. The police, which got medals for killing terrorists, had a field day rounding up innocent baptised Sikhs and killing them, and than collecting bag fulls of medals and promotions! Even you know this is true!! And than just take a look at the propaganda war against Sikhs.. Hinduan ne Sikhan da majaak banna ke rakh ditta.. appe dekh laa bollywood movies de vich kiven sardaran nu sheran toh joker banna ke rakh ditta!! Bollywood went all the way trying to show Sardars as clowns and trying to ashame young Sikh boys into cutting their hair!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Veer, you tend to oversimplify things. You forget that those killing the Sikh males were Sikh cops in Punjab Police and Sikh armymen. It wasn't a conspiracy against the Sikh Quam as its made out to be. Those were just bad times where one Sikh was after another's life. As they say...*"Je Sikh Sikh nu Na Mare, Taan Qaum Kade Na Haare!"*
> And even if what you say is true, then what happened in the 90's? There was no pressure on parents in the 90's. Those were peaceful times. But the turbaned Sikh continued to be pushed towards the minority.
> 
> And whose fault do you think it is that today a Sikh's faith and pride is so weak that it is shaken by Bollywood's portrayal of Sikhs? We have seen centuries of persecution at the hands of the Mughals. Our ancestors gave away their heads but didn't lose their turbans. And we cut our hair just because of a stupid movie or a decade of violence?
> 
> Lets be strong bro. If we are strong about who we are no foreign force can shake us. If we allow everybody to worship in the gurudwara and dont ban the Majhabis, there aint have been a Ram Rahim.
Click to expand...


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## KeenGuy

aussie_1973 said:


> *Will Sikhs support and fight against India in case of all out war between India and Pakistan?*



This should answer your question


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## Novice09

RobbieS said:


> Iqbal_Brar said:
> 
> 
> 
> And whose fault do you think it is that today a Sikh's faith and pride is so weak that it is shaken by Bollywood's portrayal of Sikhs? We have seen centuries of persecution at the hands of the Mughals. Our ancestors gave away their heads but didn't lose their turbans. And we cut our hair just because of a stupid movie or a decade of violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My grandfather was used to tell me the stories how our ancestors, who securely moved from Rajisthan to present Haryana under the umbrella of Sikh warriors.
> 
> How they died for their Guru's Holy Order
Click to expand...


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## equiliz3r

Iqbal_Brar said:


> janaab pehla anni bakwaas karan toh pehla meri post padd vi leya karo!!
> 
> 
> 
> So next time try READING my post before typing stupid things. I had already explained where the pictures were from!!



lol, that protest took place in ludhiana near my college...............I witnessed what happened.

brainwashed kid


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## equiliz3r

KeenGuy said:


> This should answer your question
> 
> YouTube - Sohna Pakistan - Jassi Lailpuria



and that should correct your answer


----------



## RobbieS

*equilizer, brar* - aapas ch na larho veero. We can have a sane discussion without any personal remarks.


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## IBRIS

Just landed in Newark Intl' Airport from PUNJAB (INDIA). Recent development and infrastructure is better than any other part of India...not to forget Punjab is still feeding entire Indian populations. Government is providing one of the best irrigation facilities, cheap power and agriculture inputs at subsidised rates have acted as a catalyst for agricultural production. Total production of food grains rose from 170.92 lakh tonnes in 1987-88 to 207 lakh tonnes in 1992-93 had contributed to increased agriculture production and improvement of the cultivators' economic status. 

Please take a visit to Punjab and see it yourself why Punajbi's support India. Sitting behind your keyboard and googling won't change the reality of Punjab. To all keyboard warriors in Pakistan and India take a trip to Punjab and leave this thread alone.

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## harrymohan

I being myself a Sikh can vouch that most of the Sikhs living in India are pretty happy with India. Disgruntled Sikhs with Khalistan mentality immigrated to countries such as USA, Canada and UK. So I won't be surprised if a Sikh living outside of India says something anti-India. They are the disgruntled ones. I goto local Gurudwaras here in California and they have put pictures of the dead militants( for Indians Terrorist) onto the walls of langer area!


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## harrymohan

SELF DELETE


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## yuvabharat

not for pakistan thats sure MERA BHARAT MAHAAN


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## gurjot

*i m a sikh and i put country first than religion,this will never be a religious fight,wake up pakistan*

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## Optimus

Can any Pakistani following this thread enlighten me how they expect Indian Sikhs to support them?


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## thebrownguy

Optimus said:


> Can any Pakistani enlighten following this thread enlighten me how they expect Indian Sikhs to support them?



Only the pathetic, immature, uneducated ones do brother. Not all of them.


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## equiliz3r

Optimus said:


> Can any Pakistani following this thread enlighten me how they expect Indian Sikhs to support them?



Last month I saw a video of Zaid Hamid in which the anchor asked him how we are going to Capture Delhi???..............Zaid answered Because Sikhs are going to fight for us.


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## Adwitiya

equiliz3r said:


> Last month I saw a video of Zaid Hamid in which the anchor asked him how we are going to Capture Delhi???..............Zaid answered Because Sikhs are going to fight for us.



he also said sikhs muslims christians low caste hindus... i guess that makes our 80% population. oh man that means we are in complete anarchy


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## KeenGuy

There is Sikh at my University who says he hates India. So he will support Pakistan.


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## jarnee

equiliz3r said:


> Last month I saw a video of Zaid Hamid in which the anchor asked him how we are going to Capture Delhi???..............Zaid answered Because Sikhs are going to fight for us.



hey which video ? i want to watch it too.

Hey do you want Pakistani friend Zahid Hamidto respond to this Sikh.


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## jarnee

and how about this.


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## jarnee

about the video you posted 'Keen Guy', i loved it, it only warns you not to mess with us Sikh's


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## KeenGuy

jarnee said:


> hey which video ? i want to watch it too.
> 
> Hey do you want Pakistani friend Zahid Hamidto respond to this Sikh.
> 
> YouTube - Gadar Movie Classic Scene | Sunny Deol | English Subtitles



I like the old man.


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## jarnee

KeenGuy said:


> This video should answer your question.
> 
> YouTube - Sohna Pakistan - Jassi Lailpuria
> 
> I think everybody and their mother hates India. Even Indians hate India.



Agree Keen Guy we hate India same as Americans hate America, but both countries are bigger then the Indidividulas, where as a Pakistani is bigger than Pakistan. hope you got it. If still not...keep on being jealous of us for next 100 years


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## su-47

Let the guys who believe Indian Sikhs will support Pak beleive what they want. There are some who just can't accept the truth.

Evn if all the Sikhs in India line up and say, "We support India!" and two dozen of Sikhs say, "We want Khalistan!", they will ONLY hear the Khalistan part, and will talk of how EVERY Sikh will fight against India.

Here Indian members have posted stats of how many sikhs are enrolled in the army, how patriotic the sikhs are, how Punjab is one of the most developed states in India, and still some refuse to see.

Let the blind be blind


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## equiliz3r

KeenGuy said:


> This video should answer your question.
> 
> YouTube - Sohna Pakistan - Jassi Lailpuria
> 
> I think everybody and their mother hates India. Even Indians hate India.


as that you who posted same video some tiime back on same thhread..............


well my answer remains the same...............this should correct your answer


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## King Ashoka the Great

Sorry for late reply......

why don't you go and ask your arm forces,believe me they know better all of us..


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## jarnee

gurjot said:


> *i m a sikh and i put country first than religion,this will never be a religious fight,wake up pakistan*



Gurjot, even if it is a religious fight, The same will happen what happened in Guru Gobind singh era, Eldest son of Hindu will be made a Sikh to fight the Invaders.


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## equiliz3r

su-47 said:


> Let the guys who believe Indian Sikhs will support Pak beleive what they want. There are some who just can't accept the truth.
> 
> Evn if all the Sikhs in India line up and say, "We support India!" and two dozen of Sikhs say, "We want Khalistan!", they will ONLY hear the Khalistan part, and will talk of how EVERY Sikh will fight against India.
> 
> Here Indian members have posted stats of how many sikhs are enrolled in the army, how patriotic the sikhs are, how Punjab is one of the most developed states in India, and still some refuse to see.
> 
> Let the blind be blind




oh veer, Punjab is not so developed.............stupid akali dal has ruined its economy


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## jarnee

KeenGuy said:


> Why because I said stupid Pakistanis support/like Hitler? Its true.
> 
> What are you implying? Only moderate Pakistanis come from Punjab?



I meant the other way, moderate Pakistani comes from non Punjab areas, and there is a reason to it. 

The most bloodshed happened in Punjab on both sides of the border in 1947, hence the hatred.


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## King Ashoka the Great

Indian Sikh is as much Indian as Indian Hindu and Indian Muslim and people from northeast and south Indian and north Indian as will as people from center India.

May be this is not apply for Pakistan but "Nation don't have color, religion, language,majority or minority or race. "


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## KeenGuy

jarnee said:


> I meant the other way, moderate Pakistani comes from non Punjab areas, and there is a reason to it.
> 
> The most bloodshed happened in Punjab on both sides of the border in 1947, hence the hatred.



I don't think they hate India more over there than the rest of Pakistan. 

As for the hate for Kashmir India:
I think both countries should allow Kashmiri people to vote to choose which country they want to belong to. But its obvious its going to be Pakistan since 95&#37; of them are Muslims. And Kashmiris really hate India and India knows this. 
So if anything to hate India, I would hate because of this.


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## notsuperstitious

equiliz3r said:


> Last month I saw a video of Zaid Hamid in which the anchor asked him how we are going to Capture Delhi???..............Zaid answered Because Sikhs are going to fight for us.



Hmmm...is that why he kept saying Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh - a Sikh?

so to fulfill his phophecy he'll just change facts? These defence analysts are smart!


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## Draft

equiliz3r said:


> oh veer, Punjab is not so developed.............stupid akali dal has ruined its economy



Compared to many states, Punjab is like Switzerland.


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## equiliz3r

Draft said:


> Compared to many states, Punjab is like Switzerland.




well , can be regarded as Germany though............due to mixture of Industry and agriculture


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## KeenGuy

I support the creation of Khalistan in the Indian province of Punjab. Sikhs need a homeland just like Jewish people need a homeland of Israel. Its only fair. I'm not against Israel, I just don't like the way their government is conducting business with Palestinians.

I feel your pain of living with the rest of the Indians in India. Pakistanis couldn't handle it anymore, thats why there is a Pakistan now.  But India won't allow it because they want to have control and be dominant over everything.


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## Jackdaws

I too would like a Khalistan - as far as its capital is in Lahore and places of historical importance like Nankana Sahib are handed to it.

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## King Ashoka the Great

Jackdaws said:


> I too would like a Khalistan - as far as its capital is in Lahore and places of historical importance like Nankana Sahib are handed to it.



I agree with you,now the time has come to raise khalistan in pakistan..... very few Sikh left in pakistan and rest is beheaded in continues bases. It required their and there is no problem for finance and weapon since we have RAW,MASSOD and CIA Nexus.

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## Adwitiya

The thought of khalistan has died in India. why dont we should inspire them for the same thought for the other side of border and return back the favour which was done to us.


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## KeenGuy

Jackdaws said:


> I too would like a Khalistan - as far as its capital is in Lahore and places of historical importance like Nankana Sahib are handed to it.



No No... Don't get carried away. Only India territory should be made Khalistan.


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## King Ashoka the Great

KeenGuy said:


> No No... Don't get carried away. Only India territory should be made Khalistan.



Will we are actually planing to give whole Pakistan Punjab to the khalistani as a goodwill and replacement of Indian Punjab since Indian Punjab smaller in size.

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## Adwitiya

KeenGuy said:


> No No... Don't get carried away. Only India territory should be made Khalistan.



oh payback to 71 is it?
Say that to any sikh in India and get back alive. Congrats you will be casted in next james bond movie

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## KeenGuy

Its not payback.


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## Jackdaws

Well - as a gesture of goodwill - once the Sikhs have Lahore and Nankana Sahib - we will definitely give them Amritsar and few pockets around it.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Sikhs are better then Indians alot more sophisticated people of culture

Their music , movies and songs every thing is great even their business sense

Pata nahi man mohan ko kiya brain wash kiya hai


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## Adwitiya

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Sikhs are better then Indians alot more sophisticated people of culture
> 
> Their music , movies and songs every thing is great even their business sense
> 
> Pata nahi man mohan ko kiya brain wash kiya hai



how can sikhs be better than Indians when they themselves are Indians. Divide and rule policy is some thing which worked in last century. try something new.

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## Iqbal_Brar

RobbieS said:


> I ain't banned bro. I guess you got me mixed up with somebody else. And I am surely going to post a thoughtful reply to your post and continue our discussion.



Ok, I must have mistaken for someone else. Glad ure here.



> It would have been done bro, but at a higher cost. Our earnings wouldn't have been the same. And our profits margins would have dipped.
> 
> And may be your uncles manage the farms and employ Punjabis but when the crunch time of harvesting or sowing arrives, these bhaiyyas are the ones who do the job.



No brother. Crunch time or not. Ok, this is how it works. We usually have employed a handful of people (like 4-5) who have been working for us for years and they look after the farms all year round. When harvest season arrives, than we temporarily hire a lot of people from the village at that time. They are all Punjabis, not Bhaiyyas. UP/Bihari bhaiyya are simply cheaper and they work harder that is why people hire them. Otherwise there is no shortness of punjabis to work your fields. because lets face it, not every punjabi pindoo is a landowner. And some have land but very little of it, so they have to work. It is only because this cheaper bihari/up bhaiyya option is there why people hire them, but if they were not, there are enough Punjabis to do the job. They just charge more for less.



> Veer, you tend to oversimplify things. You forget that those killing the Sikh males were Sikh cops in Punjab Police and Sikh armymen. It wasn't a conspiracy against the Sikh Quam as its made out to be. Those were just bad times where one Sikh was after another's life. As they say..."Je Sikh Sikh nu Na Mare, Taan Qaum Kade Na Haare!"



Those so called "Sikhs" like KPS Gill are hardly Sikhs. Even you know that they did not even fight for the sake of India, they only fought for themselves, for medals and promotions. That was time when every lower rank Police officer reached high ranks like DSP and SSP. Now tell me how many of those Police officers are true amrit-shak Sikhs? Heck, look at the SS Mann, he was one man who was at such a high rank, he was IGP and later Commandant of Punjab armed police and later the ISF; yet after Blue star even he resigned, a person with such high achievements must have had good reason to resign no? Than look at General Shabeg Singh. He was a man who fought wars for India, he even won gallantry awards, he was a high ranking military officer, he too joined Bhindrawala and helped him set up his defences. There is a very good reason why such patriotic men ended up taking arms against the government bro. And also, the army which attacked Golden Temple was made up of Biharis. Why was Sikh regiment not called to assault Golden Temple?? It only seems reasonable that they would get Sikh regiment to assault since those are the soldiers who know how to tread into that place with respect. And sore truth is, that Indian army was afraid that its Sikh regiment would revolt if it was deployed in Punjab. (Because units of Sikh regiment started revolting who were deployed outside Punjab). The truth is, Sikh sensibilities were brushed aside, and Sikhs were brutally crushed by the army and the police, not only the militants, but whole Sikh community was harassed and made a target. Infact, every baptized Sikh was made a target.



> And even if what you say is true, then what happened in the 90's? There was no pressure on parents in the 90's. Those were peaceful times. But the turbaned Sikh continued to be pushed towards the minority.



I grew up in the 90s. Sikhs were harassed all through out the early 90s, I still remember having to go through numerous Police checkpoints when driving to the village from the city. After every kilometer Police used to have checkposts set up, and in nighttime, they would harass you. It was only later 90s when things calmed down, but that was when RSS and BJP came into Punjab with full force. At a time when Sikhs had been brutally assaulted, the Hindus organizations came in preaching how Sikhs are only sect of Hindus, and being a sardar became something to laugh at. Bollywood too if you notice started showing sardars as jokers starting in 90s alone. Before that time, all the old Hindi movies did not stereotype sardars as such.



> And whose fault do you think it is that today a Sikh's faith and pride is so weak that it is shaken by Bollywood's portrayal of Sikhs? We have seen centuries of persecution at the hands of the Mughals. Our ancestors gave away their heads but didn't lose their turbans. And we cut our hair just because of a stupid movie or a decade of violence?



Its not just a stupid movie, it is mass propaganda. Even Hitler said if you repeat one thing enough times, people will start to believe it. Propaganda is whole different level than physical persecution. Like Bhindrawala said, "Physical death I do not fear, but death of conscience is a sure death". Well, the Hindu media has been giving Sikhi a death of conscience and they have done a good job at it. Today, lets face it, a religious baptized Sikh is portrayed as an extremist.



> Lets be strong bro. If we are strong about who we are no foreign force can shake us. If we allow everybody to worship in the gurudwara and dont ban the Majhabis, there aint have been a Ram Rahim.



We never ban the Mazhabis and we allow everyone to come worship in the Gurudwara. But if a mazhabi is going to demand that he be allowed to worship as a mazhabi, or a ravi dasi that he be allowed o worship as a ravi dasi, than obviously that will be a problem, because Sikhism rejects casteism, and they try to bring it into mainstream. There are ethnic groups which do exist, like Jatts, Tarkhans, Chamaars, etc; but keep all that stuff out of the gurudwaras. And to all the people that say that Jatts run the Sikh religion, than all i can say is that it is only because Jatts are in large number who are well off. Forget religion, even Punjab politics is run by Jatts, why are they not able to raise an issue there? Go build their own parties, why invade the Sikh religion with sectarianism?


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## Iqbal_Brar

As for other people here; our problems are not a joke. It is offensive to see Pakistanis and Indians talking about Sikhs like this. It may feel good for both pakistanis and indians to spread your own nationalistic view over Sikhs but it is stupid. Neither majority of pakistanis nor majority of indians here know anything about Sikh issues, and yet they gloat over our fight.


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## Adwitiya

Iqbal_Brar said:


> As for other people here; our problems are not a joke. It is offensive to see Pakistanis and Indians talking about Sikhs like this. It may feel good for both pakistanis and indians to spread your own nationalistic view over Sikhs but it is stupid. Neither majority of pakistanis nor majority of indians here know anything about Sikh issues, and yet they gloat over our fight.



Nopes actually they are also the views of the Sikhs in the sub continent. Some online buggers sitting overseas who have nothing else to do are just involved in that. They are asking for a land in which they are not going to live.No one in India and pakistan wants it as of now.

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## asq

Well let me put here the facts of history which tells us that at the time of Sikh rule in Pujab, the attacks came from Dogras and from Bengal regiment under the British command.

On Sikh side there were Muslim Pashtunes and Muslim Punjabis.

Read on and know the facts. Learn the truth about who was who and how Hindu join with English in bengal regiment to fight sikhs, on the other hand Muslims Pashtunes and punjabis joined Sikh Armies to defend Punjab. 

First Anglo-Sikh War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Justin Joseph

asq said:


> Well let me put here the facts of history which tells us that at the time of Sikh rule in Pujab, the attacks came from Dogras and from Bengal regiment under the British command.
> 
> On Sikh side there were Muslim Pashtunes and Muslim Punjabis.
> 
> Read on and know the facts. Learn the truth about who was who and how Hindu join with English in bengal regiment to fight sikhs, on the other hand Muslims Pashtunes and punjabis joined Sikh Armies to defend Punjab.
> 
> First Anglo-Sikh War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





*History get a life man, u don't know anything or u are up to propaganda at its best.*




























*What you have to say about these pictures about history??

You are deliberately playing divide and rule.

But no one can hide the truth and history.*


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## Justin Joseph

*Who have tortured and killed Sikh Gurus?????????

Sikh are the people with very big heart but can't forgive the killers of "Sikh Gurus"*


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## asq

Hay JJ r u making these pics.

What i did was gave u a link from a reliable source and u come along put ur Nonsense.

Read again the facts on the link as I put up.

And I am talking about late 1800 dude.

very recent dude. 

Just before the partition dude. 

Self drawn pics no truth in it and not worthy of this forum.


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## Iqbal_Brar

and this is why i said earlier why do you guys comment on Sikhs when you know nothing??

justin joseph, yes those pics are true but at same time maybe u don't know but every story in those pictures has story related to good friendly muslims (read Sufi Muslims) who tried to save them.. people like Hazrat Mian Mir or the Sherwani Nawabs..

and second point, who are u to tell us who we can forgive and we can't?? we are not stupid we know what type of games you people try to play.. try to make sikhs fight one community with another..

asq, those pictures are true... not nonsense.. but at same time it is also true that there was muslim regiment in Sikh Khalsa army..


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## Cheetah786

Adwitiya said:


> how can sikhs be better than Indians when they themselves are Indians. Divide and rule policy is some thing which worked in last century. try something new.



Sikhs protest Toronto visit by Indian minister

An Indian ministers visit and a private meeting with Premier Dalton McGuinty have unleashed a political maelstrom among Sikhs in the Toronto area, who say they will work to unseat the Liberals. 

Unless they make amends quickly, the Liberals will definitely lose this communitys votes, said Harbans Jandali, president of Ontario Sikh and Gurdwara Council. This is a sensitive issue for the Sikhs. 

Jandali, along with almost 500 other Sikh demonstrators, was outside the King Edward Hotel in downtown Toronto where Kamal Nath, minister of road transport and highways in India, addressed the Canada-India Business Council. 

Nath is accused of helping organize deadly riots against Sikhs in November 1984 after the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards in New Delhi. More than 3,000 Sikhs were killed in four days across India. 

Demonstrators, occupying sidewalks in front of the hotel Tuesday, screamed: Go back, Kamal Nath and Kamal Nath: Killer of Sikhs. 

The community began protesting Naths visit earlier in the week and Liberal MPPs for the Brampton area have been on the receiving end of many angry emails from Sikhs. But the opposition reached a frenzy after news broke of the Indian ministers meeting with McGuinty. 

We had hoped that the government would listen to us and his visit would end, said Lovleen Kaur, a York University student and one of organizers of the protest. We didnt want to do this, she said pointing at the angry crowd. 

But McGuinty defended the 30-minute tete-a-tete behind closed doors with Nath on Tuesday. 

McGuinty, who said earlier this week he was unaware of the allegations against Nath despite two previous meetings with him on trade missions to India, told reporters that he prefers a policy of open engagement with foreign dignitaries to show how people of many ethnic backgrounds get along in the province.

As the controversy grew Tuesday, McGuintys office released a statement commenting on the deadly 1984 riots  the worst since Indias independence in 1947 saying, I know many of our fellow Ontarians still feel the pain of these events very deeply, and I want to convey our sympathies. 

However, officials for McGuinty said human rights issues were not raised at the meeting with Nath, where trade was the main topic.

Given his large contingent of South Asian MPPs and having been to India twice, McGuinty should be more plugged in to the concerns surrounding people hes meeting from that region, said NDP leader Andrea Horwath.

I think its insensitive in the extreme that the premier would be entertaining Mr. Nath, a person who is obviously a very polarizing, very divisive figure, she said.

Nath has refuted claims that he led any mob. 

He told a commission in India in 2000 that he arrived at the scene of a riot in New Delhi after learning of escalating violence but he claims to have left when police arrived. 

The commission indicted Nath but could not determine whether he was involved. 

On Tuesday, he told the Star: I have never been indicted by any commission of inquiry, nor have I been charged in a police station or before a court of law for any offence relating to violence against the members of the Sikh community. 

He said some years ago, a complaint made by a person of dubious motivation was, nevertheless, examined by the Nanavati Commission, which found it baseless. The commission held that there was no evidence whatsoever that I had, in any manner, instigated any mob or was ever involved in any attack on any gurdwara. 

Nath said he has consistently condemned violence that erupted after Gandhis assassination.

I am surprised and appalled by this protest because I have been coming here for 20 years and nobody ever complained, said Nath. 

Sikhs acknowledge that but say his visits have been deliberately kept under wraps because they rankle the community. 

But a spokeswoman for McGuinty insisted government officials did not go out of their way to keep the meeting with Nath a secret

Meanwhile, a Sikh lawyer said Canada has violated constitutional law by allowing Nath entry into Canada even though he is accused of human rights violations. 

The constitution bars anyone involved in human-rights abuses, even if they have not been formally charged or convicted, said Gurpatwant Pannu, a lawyer for Sikhs for Justice, an advocacy group. 

He said he will challenge his admission in the federal court on Wednesday. He (Nath) is here now but we want to make sure that he never comes to Canada again. 

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/784367--sikhs-protest-toronto-visit-by-indian-minister


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## thebrownguy

Cheetah786 said:


> Sikhs protest Toronto visit by Indian minister
> 
> An Indian ministers visit and a private meeting with Premier Dalton McGuinty have unleashed a political maelstrom among Sikhs in the Toronto area, who say they will work to unseat the Liberals.
> 
> Unless they make amends quickly, the Liberals will definitely lose this communitys votes, said Harbans Jandali, president of Ontario Sikh and Gurdwara Council. This is a sensitive issue for the Sikhs.
> 
> Jandali, along with almost 500 other Sikh demonstrators, was outside the King Edward Hotel in downtown Toronto where Kamal Nath, minister of road transport and highways in India, addressed the Canada-India Business Council.
> 
> Nath is accused of helping organize deadly riots against Sikhs in November 1984 after the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards in New Delhi. More than 3,000 Sikhs were killed in four days across India.
> 
> Demonstrators, occupying sidewalks in front of the hotel Tuesday, screamed: Go back, Kamal Nath and Kamal Nath: Killer of Sikhs.
> 
> The community began protesting Naths visit earlier in the week and Liberal MPPs for the Brampton area have been on the receiving end of many angry emails from Sikhs. But the opposition reached a frenzy after news broke of the Indian ministers meeting with McGuinty.
> 
> We had hoped that the government would listen to us and his visit would end, said Lovleen Kaur, a York University student and one of organizers of the protest. We didnt want to do this, she said pointing at the angry crowd.
> 
> But McGuinty defended the 30-minute tete-a-tete behind closed doors with Nath on Tuesday.
> 
> McGuinty, who said earlier this week he was unaware of the allegations against Nath despite two previous meetings with him on trade missions to India, told reporters that he prefers a policy of open engagement with foreign dignitaries to show how people of many ethnic backgrounds get along in the province.
> 
> As the controversy grew Tuesday, McGuintys office released a statement commenting on the deadly 1984 riots  the worst since Indias independence in 1947 saying, I know many of our fellow Ontarians still feel the pain of these events very deeply, and I want to convey our sympathies.
> 
> However, officials for McGuinty said human rights issues were not raised at the meeting with Nath, where trade was the main topic.
> 
> Given his large contingent of South Asian MPPs and having been to India twice, McGuinty should be more plugged in to the concerns surrounding people hes meeting from that region, said NDP leader Andrea Horwath.
> 
> I think its insensitive in the extreme that the premier would be entertaining Mr. Nath, a person who is obviously a very polarizing, very divisive figure, she said.
> 
> Nath has refuted claims that he led any mob.
> 
> He told a commission in India in 2000 that he arrived at the scene of a riot in New Delhi after learning of escalating violence but he claims to have left when police arrived.
> 
> The commission indicted Nath but could not determine whether he was involved.
> 
> On Tuesday, he told the Star: I have never been indicted by any commission of inquiry, nor have I been charged in a police station or before a court of law for any offence relating to violence against the members of the Sikh community.
> 
> He said some years ago, a complaint made by a person of dubious motivation was, nevertheless, examined by the Nanavati Commission, which found it baseless. The commission held that there was no evidence whatsoever that I had, in any manner, instigated any mob or was ever involved in any attack on any gurdwara.
> 
> Nath said he has consistently condemned violence that erupted after Gandhis assassination.
> 
> I am surprised and appalled by this protest because I have been coming here for 20 years and nobody ever complained, said Nath.
> 
> Sikhs acknowledge that but say his visits have been deliberately kept under wraps because they rankle the community.
> 
> But a spokeswoman for McGuinty insisted government officials did not go out of their way to keep the meeting with Nath a secret
> 
> Meanwhile, a Sikh lawyer said Canada has violated constitutional law by allowing Nath entry into Canada even though he is accused of human rights violations.
> 
> The constitution bars anyone involved in human-rights abuses, even if they have not been formally charged or convicted, said Gurpatwant Pannu, a lawyer for Sikhs for Justice, an advocacy group.
> 
> He said he will challenge his admission in the federal court on Wednesday. He (Nath) is here now but we want to make sure that he never comes to Canada again.
> 
> Sikhs protest Toronto visit by Indian minister - thestar.com



Arey yaar, these videshee sikhs, living mosty in Canada are the Khalistanis. Maybe they should try for Khalistan in Canada.

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## Musalman

aussie_1973 said:


> *Will Sikhs support and fight against India in case of all out war between India and Pakistan?*



Of course not stupid !!! they are Indian

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## asq

Iqbal Brar Je.

If u tell me that those pics are true, than who did these pics and what is the connection to Muslims.

In my openion sikhism is closer to Islam, one example is that if u look at the Jalsa done by Guru Gobind singh jee choosing Panj Pyarey, he told those attending this meeting that, 'ALL INDIANS AR EQUAL AND NO ONE IS LOWER CLASS THAN OTHERS.' 

THIS IN FACT IS WHAT ISLAM SAYS. all humans are equal and only those that are pious are better than thae who do Satanic things.

Now if Muslims had done what some claims about killing, had they done what is being claimed, all Indian would have been Muslims. today.

Let me give u parallal example. Europeans came to Americas only 250 years a go, and the locals here had their own culture and Religion, but they are are all christians living in reservations.

Muslims when lost power in India there were more HIndius in India, sikhs flourished inormously, and even Parsis, jains and all lived peacefully and in great numbers. not like Americas living in resevations and childern taken from parentas in schools run by christian missionaries.

In India any one who declared that they are kings or challanged the rulers, mughals fought them and that included Muslims as well.

In my openion making such pics is not the true representations of Muslim rule in Inda. 

I know that there were some injutices done to all in India during Mughal rule,the opertive word is all. but than it was very few and far between. So Making such pics is not a true representatrion of Mughal rule.

Look at Kashmir today their has been killing of innocnets for 60 years, no one in pakistan makes such pics as these kind of pics will promote hatred in people and that is not right.

So finaly Muslims did join sikh forces fighting English, but HIndu on both occasions either attacked as Dogras did or Bengalis who joined English Armies and came all the way to fight Sikhs. Hindu never joined sikh Armies, they in my openion infiltrated Sikhs to mould their acts to suit their agendas. And Hindus continue the same policy till today.

May Allah, or Guru jee help us to see the truth and see the real opressors and the real truth seekers.


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## asq

thebrownguy said:


> Arey yaar, these videshee sikhs, living mosty in Canada are the Khalistanis. Maybe they should try for Khalistan in Canada.



So u tell me that Sikhs living in Canada are not true Sikhs and have no clue as to what goes on in this world.

A patronizing attitude. ( To treat in a condescending manners. )


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## A.R.

asq said:


> In my openion sikhism is closer to Islam....



and in my opinion sikhism is closer to hinduism.....
they celebrate all hindu festivals with same enthusiasm many of them are regular visitor of temples too... and same is the case with hindus in viceversa...


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## Mirza Jatt

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Sikhs are better then Indians alot more sophisticated people of culture
> 
> Their music , movies and songs every thing is great even their business sense
> 
> Pata nahi man mohan ko kiya brain wash kiya hai



First of all how can you differentiate between a Sikhs and Indians.I am a sikh and i am a proud Indian.I have my roots in this very soil where our religion was born.Unfortunately few of our brothers are still in Pakistan,but if you ask them,they'll tell the history where were Sikhism and Khalsa born.Its just a few sikh youth mislead by anti India elements for their own interest used them in the past and are still trying but now even thy are well aware of this.Hope this answers a lot to the members who want to know what Sikhs want...waheguru ji da khalsa,waheguru ji di fateh.

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## asq

A.R. said:


> and in my opinion sikhism is closer to hinduism.....
> they celebrate all hindu festivals with same enthusiasm many of them are regular visitor of temples too... and same is the case with hindus in viceversa...



A.R. R U kidding me, Sikhs believe in Guru jee and not in dieties, only one supreme power.
Read and see for yourself that most of the sikh beliefs are closer to Islam than Huinuism.

Sikh Beliefs


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## thebrownguy

asq said:


> A.R. R U kidding me, Sikhs believe in Guru jee and not in dieties, only one supreme power.
> Read and see for yourself that most of the sikh beliefs are closer to Islam than Huinuism.
> 
> Sikh Beliefs



Sikhs and Hindus are very close culturally. Just go to any gurudwara and see how many Hindu devotees visit everyday. Likewise with hindu temples, there are many sikh devotees.

Many hindus prefer to get married in gurudwaaras instead of getting married before the agni. There are so many cross religion marriages between the two. 

Every year I visit the Golden temple in Amritsar and Vaishno devi Mandir near Jammu, and witness a huge mix of Hindu and sikh devotees at both the places.


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## yuba

thebrownguy said:


> Sikhs and Hindus are very close culturally. Just go to any gurudwara and see how many Hindu devotees visit everyday. Likewise with hindu temples, there are many sikh devotees.
> 
> Many hindus prefer to get married in gurudwaaras instead of getting married before the agni. There are so many cross religion marriages between the two.
> 
> Every year I and visit, Golden temple in Amritsar and Vaishno devi Mandir near Jammu, and witness a huge mix of Hindu and sikh devotees at both the places.



like wise whenever i go to anandpur sahib i always go to naina devi as well you see this throughout religous sites in the region

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## A.R.

asq said:


> A.R. R U kidding me, Sikhs believe in Guru jee and not in dieties, only one supreme power.
> Read and see for yourself that most of the sikh beliefs are closer to Islam than Huinuism.
> 
> Sikh Beliefs



you definitely proved that you have no idea about sikhism in real..


you also have no idea about hinduism


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## thebrownguy

asq said:


> So u tell me that Sikhs living in Canada are not true Sikhs and have no clue as to what goes on in this world.
> 
> A patronizing attitude. ( To treat in a condescending manners. )



Don't complicate things. These people are still living in 1984 when they talk about India. Anyways, you are not aware of the story man, futile discussing with you.


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## A.R.

@asq
why dont you do your homework before posting these silly posts??


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## Iqbal_Brar

and.... in the end this is allll it comes down to!!! ROBBIES!!!! Veerji kithe ho??? these Hindus here have just proven my point.... they attempt to absorb Sikh religion into Hinduism.. part of the grand Hindutva expansion.... WE are NOT Hindus or Muslims!! WE have a SEPERATE identity!!! We are SIKHS!!!

Here are some posts from a facebook group on same topic I like to place here:



> Hindus and Sikhs are NOT the same.. we don't ask anyone to change their religion, but for Hindus and Sikhs to be the same, as RSS wants to claim; than Hindus have to stop worshipping idols, reject drugs smoking and drinking alcohol, believe that there is only one all powerful god who is formless and does not re-incarnate.. all men and women are equal... than maybe we can be the same, but until than, we are NOT the same religions.. but we respect Hindu beliefs.. but do not try to invade our religion and claim that we are Hindus... our teachings reject Hindu beliefs..
> 
> (i) Hindu religion is based on Varnashram i.e. four castes (Bhrahmins, Kashatriyas, Vasyas and Shudras) and four stages in life (Brahamcharya, Grahastha, Sanyasa and Vanprastha) The whole religion and practices are designed based on it.
> Sikh religion does not accept this concept.
> 
> (ii) Hindu religion does not consider all humans as born equal, women are equated with Shudras. Where as Sikh religion does not support such discrimination.
> 
> (iii) Hindu religion consider Sanskrit as divine language which Gods understand. Sikh religion does not consider any language as divine.
> 
> (iv) Hindu religion supports worship of idols; Sikh religion rejects idol worship and demands worship of Nirakaar (God).
> 
> (v) Sikh religion demands that its followers directly worship the Absolute 'The Sat' where as Hindu religion supports worship of Gods and Godesses and trinity which by its own scripture is born and have a life span (Bhagvatam gives the age of present Brahma and also tells when this Bramha will be dissolved).
> Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network Sikhism and Hinduism (Sikhism and Hinduism)
> 
> (vi) Sikh religion is democratic and corporate in nature, where each devotee has direct access to 'The Sat', where as in Hindu religion the prayers have to be routed through the Brahman priest. To prevent from Sikhs getting into this practice Guru Sahib has abolished Priesthood.
> Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network Sikhism and Hinduism (Sikhism and Hinduism)
> 
> (vii) Hindu relion says that God will descend on earth to distroy evil. Sikh religion says that the individual and the Panth has to fight its own worldly battles. Guru Sahibs have lived the life to demonstrate this to Sikhs and have give sword to us to defend our rights.
> 
> (viii) Hindu religion belives in Miracles, where as Sikh Gurus refused to do so.





> Here, forget written texts, I will provide examples straight out of the Holy Guru Granth Sahib which tells us, we are NOT Hindus:
> 
> Idol worship:
> 
> 1. The stone which man calls God,
> Takes him and drowns him along with it;
> O sinful and disloyal creature, understand you not
> That a boat of stone cannot carry you ashore?
> Nanak has found that Lord, through the Guru,
> Who feeds all His creation on sea and on land.
> (Guru V, Suhi Rag)
> 
> 2. He who thinks that the stone is God, Worships in vain;
> He who prostrates before stones, Labours to no purpose.
> (Guru V, Bhairo Rag)
> 
> 3. Those who have forsaken God,
> And have attached themselves to idols, Shall go to hell.
> (Guru V, Jaitsri Rag)
> 
> 4. The truth is this:
> God lives amongst His people,
> And is not to be found in stones.
> (Kabirji, Tilang Rag)
> 
> 5. The Gods and goddesses are worshipped, O brother!
> What ought we beg and what can they give?
> The stone bathed in water, O brother, Sinks down in it.
> (Guru I, Sorath Rag)
> 
> 6. They worship one stone,
> While the other stones they trample under their feet;
> If the former is God, then the latter must also be the same.
> So says Namdev: I worship God alone.
> (Namdevji, Gauri Rag)
> 
> 7. He takes a bath, And worships the stone;
> Without the love of God, He is full of dirt.
> (Guru I, Ramkali Rag)
> 
> Hindu Hypocrisy:
> 
> 1. Those who wear dhotis of three and a half yards length,
> Those who wear threefold sacred thread,
> Those who wear rosaries round their necks,
> And carry shining pails in their hands,
> Are not the saints of God;
> They are the cheats of Benaras.
> Kabirji, Asa Rag
> 
> 2. He studies Vedas but quarrels,
> He doth not remember God and hath no respect.
> Guru III, Sorath Rag
> 
> 3. There is a mark on the forehead,
> And a rosary in the hand, This is the garb;
> People have considered God as a toy.
> Kabirji, Maru Rag
> 
> 4. Brother, what have you gained by reading Puranas?
> You have neither worshipped God, Nor fed the hungry,
> Nor controlled lust, anger, greed, and backbiting;
> All your efforts have gone in vain.
> Parmanandji, Sarang Rag
> 
> 5. By wandering about in a Yogi's garb,
> One cannot get salvation.
> Guru III, Basant Rag
> 
> Hindus and Muslims:
> 
> 1. The Hindu is blind; the Muslim is one-eyed,
> The wise, all-seeing, is (only) the one Wise in God.
> The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque,
> But Namdeva worships the God, who has no temple, and no mosque, to
> call His own. (Rag Gond Bilawal, Namdev)
> 
> 2. Hard it is to call oneself a Muslim; If one has these (Attributes) then alone
> is he one: first, let the faith in Allah seem sweet to him.
> And then with this as scraper, let him scrub his inside clean of Ego.
> And, with faith in the leader of his faith, let him break the Illusion of life and death.
> And submit to the Will of Allah, and, Believing in his Eternal Creator,
> he should lose his self.
> And, Nanak, if he is merciful to all creatures, truly he is acclaimed as
> a (true) Muslim. (Ibid)
> 
> 3. Thou sayest thy prayers five times, giving them five names.
> Let Truth be thy first, Honest living the second; and the good of all, thy third;
> Let the fourth prayer be the honest mind and the fifth the Praise of the Lord;
> Let the fourth prayer be the honest mind and the fifth the Praise of the Lord.
> Say thou, pray, the Prayer of Deeds, and be thou thus a (True) Muslim;
> Any other prayer is false and, false is their value. (Majh Var, M. 1)
> 
> 4. If thy God lives only in the mosque, to whom else belongs the rest of the
> world?
> The Hindu finds the God's All-pervading Essence in the image; so both
> Know not the quintessence.
> O Allah, O Ram, I live by Thy Name,
> O Master, be Thou Merciful to me?
> The Hndus see their God in the south, the Muslims in the west;
> But search thy God only in the heart, for, thy heart is the Seat of God.
> The Brahmin fasts (yearly) for twenty four days, once
> every Ekadasi, the Qazi in the month of Ramzan;
> Lo, they keep out God for eleven parts, and find the
> treasure of Bliss only in a single month !
> Why bathe in Orissa, why bow low in the mosque?
> If one has Guile in the heart, then, what use is one's
> going out for a Hajj, or saying the prayers five times in a day ? (4)
> O God, all men and women that one sees are but thy Manifestations,
> And I am thy child, and all Gurus and all Prophets are mine.
> Says Kabir, "Hear ye men and women, seek only the refuge of the One God.
> And utter only the Lord's Name that ye are ferried across." (Kabir)
> 
> 5. The Pundit reads the Books, but gives no thought to them; He instructs the others, but himself trades in Maya. (Sri Rag M. 1)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are plenty more examples I can provide, if you want me to from our holy books, which proves that we are NOT Hindus.. we are SIKHS!! We follow only one god, and reject Hinduism. There is no glass half full, or half empty, this is black or white. Stop trying to invade our religion and label us Hindu, rather, go pick up the Adi Granth and read what a Sikh is.


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## Iqbal_Brar

Indian Jatt said:


> First of all how can you differentiate between a Sikhs and Indians.I am a sikh and i am a proud Indian.I have my roots in this very soil where our religion was born.Unfortunately few of our brothers are still in Pakistan,but if you ask them,they'll tell the history where were Sikhism and Khalsa born.Its just a few sikh youth mislead by anti India elements for their own interest used them in the past and are still trying but now even thy are well aware of this.Hope this answers a lot to the members who want to know what Sikhs want...waheguru ji da khalsa,waheguru ji di fateh.



Indian Jatt veerji, kinne peg lah ke tussi eh post likhi si?? Shouldn't you be busy getting yourself drunk and talli or something rather than talking about Sikhi here? Because seriously.. that is total BS what you just wrote.. Sikhism is not defined by national borders.. Sikhism's HOLIEST shrines are in Pakistan!! Nankana Sahab.. Panja Sahab.. Sachkhand.. Sheikhupura.. Rorhee Sahab.. Keyara Sahab.. these are the most significant places of Sikh religion.. there are close to 200 other important Gurudwaras in Pakistan.. so if you think that Sikh religion is defined by national boundaries.. you need to cut down on that alcohol and pick up the Adi Granth for a change..


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## A.R.

Iqbal_Brar said:


> and.... in the end this is allll it comes down to!!! ROBBIES!!!! Veerji kithe ho??? these Hindus here have just proven my point.... they attempt to absorb Sikh religion into Hinduism.. part of the grand Hindutva expansion.... WE are NOT Hindus or Muslims!! WE have a SEPERATE identity!!! We are SIKHS!!!
> 
> Here are some posts from a facebook group on same topic I like to place here:



and you think we will except this kid of silly post which orginates from a social networking sites....
seriously pakistan is a illiterate nation you proved by your post..


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## A.R.

History of similarities between hindus and sikhs 

Nanak, was born in a Hindu Khatri family. However, he declared that all are equal in the eyes of God in his famous proclamation "I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim."[3] A unity between Hindus and Muslims under the teachings and revelations of the Guru. The Guru had some familiar and common beliefs as in Hindu concepts like Karma, Dharma, Reincarnation, and meditating on God's name to break the cycle of birth

Before Guru Nanak's death, he instructed his disciple Guru Angad Dev to carry on the teachings of his religion as Guru Angad had shown selflessness, compassion and endless service and was in tuned with the teachings of his Master, Guru Nanak. Sri Chand, one of his sons, founded the Udasi order. Various orders have arisen since the beginning of Sikhism, such as the Radhasoamis and the Nirankaris. It is debatable whether these religions constitute offshoots of Sikhism or merely differing Sikh philosophies. The Khalsa, ordained by Guru Gobind Singh, is regarded by many Sikhs as being the completion of the development of the Sikh religion.
[edit] Guru Tegh Bahadur

In 1675 Aurangzeb caused the martyrdom of Guru Tegh Bahadur. He had gone to Aurangzeb on behalf of Kashmiri Pandits, who requested him to plead against their forceful conversion. Aurangzeb asked Guru Tegh Bahadur to convert and had him executed after he refused to convert to Islam.[4] According to Kushwant Singh, when "Guru Tegh Bahadur was summoned to Delhi, he went as a protector of the Kashmiri Hindu community and encourage them to stand against the increasing oppression of the Mughals. He was executed in the year 1675. His son who succeeded him as Guru later described his father's martyrdom as in the cause of the humanity. Guru Tegh Bahadar undertook the supreme sacrifice for the protection of the most fundamental of human rights - the right of a person to freely practice his or her religion without interference or hindrance. This is why Guru Tegh Bahadur is also known as (Tegh Bahadur, Hind Di Chadar" (Tegh Bahadur, Protector of Hindus).

Guru Tegh Bahadur is also honored by Hindus and the Guru Tegh Bahadur Martyrdom Day is also observed by many Hindus.[5]
[edit] Maharaja Ranjit Singh

Also called "Sher-e-Punjab" ("The Lion of the Punjab") (1780-1839) was a Sikh emperor and the founder of Sikh Empire.Ranjit Singh crowned himself as the ruler of Punjab and willed the Koh-i-noor back to its original location at Jagannath Temple in Orissa while on his deathbed in 1839.[citation needed]
[edit] 19th century

The Sikh scholar Harjot Oberoi has argued that in the nineteenth century, the Singh Sabha movement, began to view the non-monolithic world view of Sikhism with suspicion and hostility, and tried to redefine a more limited Sikh identity.[3][opinion needs balancing]
[edit] Similarities

*Here are some of the similarities between Hinduism and Sikhism:*

* At the time of the Gurus, most North Indian families would remain "Hindu" while the eldest son was a "Sikh."[6] Hindus enlisting their eldest sons in the Khalsa was done for protection against the Mughals.
* Many Hindus visit Sikh temples.[citation needed]. For instance, the Hemkhund Sahib is a high-altitude lake in the Indian State of Uttarakhand is regarded as a pilgrimage site by the adherents of Hindus [4] and a Lakshman Temple and Sikh Gurudwaara exist close together on the banks of the same lake there.
* When a Sikh dies, cremation is the preferred method[7]. This is the same in Hinduism, although this is a cultural similarity between many cultures.
* Sikhs may also do the 'immersion of corpse remains' in a river after cremation, as Hindus do, although this is not a requirement; ashes may be deposited anywhere sentimental. [8]

* Mutual views*

In the Hindu and Sikh traditions, there is a distinction between religion and culture, and ethical decisions are grounded in both religious beliefs and cultural values. Both Hindu and Sikh ethics are primarily duty based. Traditional teachings deal with the duties of individuals and families to maintain a lifestyle conducive to physical, mental and spiritual health. These traditions share a culture and world view that includes ideas of karma and rebirth, collective versus individual identity, and a strong emphasis on spiritual purity.[5]

The notion of dharma, karma, prasad, moksha and a belief in rebirth are very important for many Hindus and Sikhs as they make ethical decisions surrounding birth and death. Unlike the linear view of life taken in Abrahamic religions, for Hindus and Sikhs life, birth and death are repeated, for each person, in a continuous cycle. What a person does in each life influences the circumstances and predispositions experienced in future lives. In essence, every action or thought, whether noble or sinful, has consequences that are carried forward into the next life. When a similar situation is encountered, memories of past lives arise in the consciousness as an impulse to perform actions or think thoughts similar to the earlier ones. This impulse does not necessarily compel the person to repeat the act or thought. As proclaimed in the Guru Granth Sahib:

Mortals obtain a human body as a result of good deeds but he reaches the gate of salvation with God's kind grace. (Guru Nanak, Japji).
[edit] Common Sikh views of Hinduism

The references to Hindu deities in the Guru Granth Sahib are for the most part metaphorical, not literal. This is illustrated in a quote on page 1374, among others:

Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider. Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction. One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. (1374)
[edit] References to Vedas

The Guru Granth Sahib refers to Hindu scripture frequently, not as an endorsement but often referring to their lack of scope regarding God. However, they are not explicitly denounced, either; the Granth encourages openmindedness of all belief systems:

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.(1350)

Sikhism does not have belief in Heaven/Hell system, inequality of caste and gender and held the Vedas responsible for these fallacies in the contemporary society, *the quote below from second Sikh Guru mentions the same view:*

 "&#2581;&#2597;&#2622; &#2581;&#2617;&#2622;&#2595;&#2624; &#2604;&#2631;&#2598;&#2624; &#2566;&#2595;&#2624; &#2602;&#2622;&#2602;&#2625; &#2602;&#2625;&#2672;&#2600;&#2625; &#2604;&#2624;&#2586;&#2622;&#2608;&#2625; &#2405; &#2598;&#2631; &#2598;&#2631; &#2610;&#2632;&#2595;&#2622; &#2610;&#2632; &#2610;&#2632; &#2598;&#2631;&#2595;&#2622; &#2600;&#2608;&#2581;&#2623; &#2616;&#2625;&#2608;&#2583;&#2623; &#2565;&#2613;&#2596;&#2622;&#2608; &#2405;"
"The Vedas bring forth stories and legends, and thoughts of vice and virtue.What is given, they receive, and what is received, they give. They are reincarnated in heaven and hell"

[6]

* Page 463 - &#2613;&#2623;&#2616;&#2606;&#2622;&#2598;&#2625; &#2600;&#2622;&#2598; &#2613;&#2623;&#2616;&#2606;&#2622;&#2598;&#2625; &#2613;&#2631;&#2598; &#2405; - Wonderful is the sound current of the Naad, wonderful is the knowledge of the Vedas.
* Page 791 - &#2604;&#2631;&#2598; &#2602;&#2622;&#2592; &#2606;&#2596;&#2623; &#2602;&#2622;&#2602;&#2622; &#2582;&#2622;&#2567; &#2405; - Reading the Vedas, sinful intellect is destroyed.
* Page 941 - &#2583;&#2625;&#2608;&#2606;&#2625;&#2582;&#2623; &#2602;&#2608;&#2586;&#2632; &#2604;&#2631;&#2598; &#2604;&#2624;&#2586;&#2622;&#2608;&#2624; &#2405; - The Gurmukh is pleasing to the True Guru; this is contemplation on the Vedas.
* Page 942 - &#2583;&#2625;&#2608;&#2606;&#2625;&#2582;&#2623; &#2616;&#2622;&#2616;&#2596;&#2637;&#2608; &#2616;&#2623;&#2606;&#2637;&#2608;&#2623;&#2596;&#2623; &#2604;&#2631;&#2598; &#2405; - The Gurmukh understands the Simritees, the Shaastras and the Vedas.
* Page 1188 - &#2604;&#2631;&#2598; &#2613;&#2582;&#2622;&#2595;&#2623; &#2581;&#2617;&#2617;&#2623; &#2567;&#2581;&#2625; &#2581;&#2617;&#2624;&#2576; &#2405; - The Vedas say that we should chant the Name of the One Lord.

In regards to their shortcomings:

* Page 148 - &#2613;&#2631;&#2598; &#2581;&#2617;&#2617;&#2623; &#2613;&#2582;&#2623;&#2566;&#2595; &#2565;&#2672;&#2596;&#2625; &#2600; &#2602;&#2622;&#2613;&#2595;&#2622; &#2405; - The Vedas speak and expound on the Lord, but they do not know His limits.
* Page 355 - &#2565;&#2616;&#2591; &#2598;&#2616;&#2624; &#2586;&#2617;&#2625; &#2605;&#2631;&#2598;&#2625; &#2600; &#2602;&#2622;&#2567;&#2566; &#2405; - The eighteen Puraanas and the four Vedas do not know His mystery.
* Guru Nanak, on page 1021 - &#2604;&#2631;&#2598; &#2581;&#2596;&#2631;&#2604;&#2624; &#2605;&#2631;&#2598;&#2625; &#2600; &#2588;&#2622;&#2596;&#2622; &#2405; - Neither the Vedas (four Hindu texts) nor the four Katebas [Semitic texts: the Torah, the Zabur (Psalms), the Injil (Gospel), and the Quran] know the mystery (of the Creator of the Cosmos).[9]
* Page 1126 - &#2616;&#2622;&#2616;&#2596;&#2637;&#2608; &#2604;&#2631;&#2598; &#2596;&#2637;&#2608;&#2632; &#2583;&#2625;&#2595; &#2617;&#2632; &#2606;&#2622;&#2567;&#2566; &#2565;&#2672;&#2599;&#2625;&#2610;&#2569; &#2599;&#2672;&#2599;&#2625; &#2581;&#2606;&#2622;&#2568; &#2405;&#2665;&#2405; - The Shaastras and the Vedas keep the mortal bound to the three modes of Maya, and so he performs his deeds blindly. ||3||
* Page 1237 - &#2600;&#2613; &#2587;&#2623;&#2565; &#2582;&#2591; &#2581;&#2622; &#2581;&#2608;&#2631; &#2604;&#2624;&#2586;&#2622;&#2608;&#2625; &#2405; &#2600;&#2623;&#2616;&#2623; &#2598;&#2623;&#2600; &#2569;&#2586;&#2608;&#2632; &#2605;&#2622;&#2608; &#2565;&#2592;&#2622;&#2608; &#2405; &#2596;&#2623;&#2600;&#2623; &#2605;&#2624; &#2565;&#2672;&#2596;&#2625; &#2600; &#2602;&#2622;&#2567;&#2566; &#2596;&#2635;&#2617;&#2623; &#2405; - You may study the nine grammars, the six Shaastras and the six divisions of the Vedas. You may recite the Mahaabhaarata. Even these cannot find the limits of the Lord.

The references above to not knowing the limits of God are a reference to the Sikh perception that the existence of demigods or devas puts a limit on the absolute power of God[citation needed].

The Guru Granth Sahib
Bhairao, Fifth Mehl - I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers... Guru Arjan Dev Page 1078 - Even the Vedas do not know the Guru's Glory. They narrate only a tiny bit of what is heard


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## Iqbal_Brar

A.R. said:


> and you think we will except this kid of silly post which orginates from a social networking sites....
> seriously pakistan is a illiterate nation you proved by your post..



lol.. this "kid of silly post" is giving direct citations from the Sikh holy book.. the Adi Granth... so accept it nor not we couldn't care less.. we know how much u love ure chadiwalla RSS unclejis and their BS RSS books which write jibberish about Sikhs... just showing u that reality is different... no wonder why Hindus in India don't even know 1% of Sikhi...


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## A.R.

Iqbal_Brar said:


> lol.. this "kid of silly post" is giving direct citations from the Sikh holy book.. the Adi Granth... so accept it nor not we couldn't care less.. we know how much u love ure chadiwalla RSS unclejis and their BS RSS books which write jibberish about Sikhs... just showing u that reality is different... no wonder why Hindus in India don't even know 1&#37; of Sikhi...



you talks just like a kid...
consider my post of 'History of similarities between hindus and sikhs' which is just above ur post


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## Mirza Jatt

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Indian Jatt veerji, kinne peg lah ke tussi eh post likhi si?? Shouldn't you be busy getting yourself drunk and talli or something rather than talking about Sikhi here? Because seriously.. that is total BS what you just wrote.. Sikhism is not defined by national borders.. Sikhism's HOLIEST shrines are in Pakistan!! Nankana Sahab.. Panja Sahab.. Sachkhand.. Sheikhupura.. Rorhee Sahab.. Keyara Sahab.. these are the most significant places of Sikh religion.. there are close to 200 other important Gurudwaras in Pakistan.. so if you think that Sikh religion is defined by national boundaries.. you need to cut down on that alcohol and pick up the Adi Granth for a change..



O Brar mere veer,main kinne peg la ke ae post likhya si o ta main hi janda aa,tennu advice den di koi lod nai ae.Naal je tu inna kujh janda wa sikhism de vare par fer vi tennu ae nai pata je sikihism de holiest shrines kehre ne.you have given the names of so many gurudwaras brother but i hope you know what and where are our five takhts.You are saying there are close to 200 important gurudwaras.Brother get this in your mind and properly that each and every gurudwara are important and not on or two.And if you are talking about gurudwaras of great significance then I am now very sure that you have read only about the Pakistani gurudrawaras (now its clear that although u r preaching sikhism you views are very much influenced by Pakistan) and never of Indian cuz it will be difficult for me tell how how many gurudawars are there in India,both Significant and less known(all important by the way).

Secondly I never said that sikhism is defined by national boundaries,If you are not under the influence of alcohol(which is clear by now after you listed the "important gurudwaras")please read it again "sikhism was born in India".I challenge you if you can prove me wrong with this.

Thirdly- "stop giving me lectures on Sikhism" to the world.


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## yuba

Indian Jatt said:


> O Brar mere veer,main kinne peg la ke ae post likhya si o ta main hi janda aa,tennu advice den di koi lod nai ae.Naal je tu inna kujh janda wa sikhism de vare par fer vi tennu ae nai pata je sikihism de holiest shrines kehre ne.you have given the names of so many gurudwaras brother but i hope you know what and where are our five takhts.You are saying there are close to 200 important gurudwaras.Brother get this in your mind and properly that each and every gurudwara are important and not on or two.And if you are talking about gurudwaras of great significance then I am now very sure that you have read only about the Pakistani gurudrawaras (now its clear that although u r preaching sikhism you views are very much influenced by Pakistan) and never of Indian cuz it will be difficult for me tell how how many gurudawars are there in India,both Significant and less known(all important by the way).
> 
> Secondly I never said that sikhism is defined by national boundaries,If you are not under the influence of alcohol(which is clear by now after you listed the "important gurudwaras")please read it again "sikhism was born in India".I challenge you if you can prove me wrong with this.
> 
> Thirdly- "stop giving me lectures on Sikhism" to the world.



dont you know he the only sikh on this site we are all drunks and should not be allowed to call ourselves sikhs these people are the biggest hypocriates you find they preach during the day and at night they get up to all sorts


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## Iqbal_Brar

A.R.,

Copy pasting something is so easy right?? You don't have to use even your brain!! It shows how arrogant you are, you don't want to take time to learn about Sikh religion, you just want to drive your stupid idiotic RSS BS ideology trying to absorb Sikhi into Hinduism.

So what about similarities? Every religion has similarities with another religion. Guru Nanak also had similar concepts with Islam like monotheism, rejection of idol worship, charity, rejection of usury. And he had concepts different from both Hindus and Islam like rejection of fasting, rejection of all rituals, and rejection of pilgrimage.

And I would only properly respond to your post if you took the time to read it yourself and discuss, but since you blindly copy pasted it shows you are not interested about Sikh religion but only want to push your own agenda. So here, I will also post link to you, something which your Muslim brothers have done the same against Sikhism: Islam in Sikhism - A comparative study

So you 2 groups can continue to fight each other with your BS theories that Sikhs are closer to Hindus or we are closer to Muslims.. Just stop bring your BS to us.. we know we are different from BOTH of you!!


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## A.R.

Iqbal_Brar said:


> A.R.,
> 
> Copy pasting something is so easy right?? You don't have to use even your brain!! It shows how arrogant you are, you don't want to take time to learn about Sikh religion, you just want to drive your stupid idiotic RSS BS ideology trying to absorb Sikhi into Hinduism.
> 
> So what about similarities? Every religion has similarities with another religion. Guru Nanak also had similar concepts with Islam like monotheism, rejection of idol worship, charity, rejection of usury. And he had concepts different from both Hindus and Islam like rejection of fasting, rejection of all rituals, and rejection of pilgrimage.
> 
> And I would only properly respond to your post if you took the time to read it yourself and discuss, but since you blindly copy pasted it shows you are not interested about Sikh religion but only want to push your own agenda. So here, I will also post link to you, something which your Muslim brothers have done the same against Sikhism: Islam in Sikhism - A comparative study
> 
> So you 2 groups can continue to fight each other with your BS theories that Sikhs are closer to Hindus or we are closer to Muslims.. Just stop bring your BS to us.. we know we are different from BOTH of you!!



kis sir fire se takkar mar raha hoon


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## A.R.

yuba said:


> dont you know he the only sikh on this site we are all drunks and should not be allowed to call ourselves sikhs these people are the biggest hypocriates you find they preach during the day and at night they get up to all sorts



R u with the pakistani side..??


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## Iqbal_Brar

Indian Jatt said:


> O Brar mere veer,main kinne peg la ke ae post likhya si o ta main hi janda aa,tennu advice den di koi lod nai ae.Naal je tu inna kujh janda wa sikhism de vare par fer vi tennu ae nai pata je sikihism de holiest shrines kehre ne.you have given the names of so many gurudwaras brother but i hope you know what and where are our five takhts.You are saying there are close to 200 important gurudwaras.Brother get this in your mind and properly that each and every gurudwara are important and not on or two.And if you are talking about gurudwaras of great significance then I am now very sure that you have read only about the Pakistani gurudrawaras (now its clear that although u r preaching sikhism you views are very much influenced by Pakistan) and never of Indian cuz it will be difficult for me tell how how many gurudawars are there in India,both Significant and less known(all important by the way).



Aho, bahut vadiya jawab.. vi jeh tenu patta ni, tah hunn saare Gurudware hi important hoge!! loll.. Gurudwarayan di vi significance haigi janaab.. otherwise, why would people go to places like golden temple yaa pher Hazoor Sahab, if all gurudwaras were important..?? It proves that ure far from Sikh culture.. truth is that not every gurudwara is important.. since these days people have opened up Gurudwaras at every corner.. those Gurudwaras are there because of historical significance.. otherwise, if you are true sikh, you can even sit at home and pray, God does not see any difference if you're in gurudwara or anywhere.. because god is everywhere in the world.. 

as for five takths, you are an idiot if you think that all those takths are historical takths of Sikhs.. only Akal takth is.. other than that.. takth of Damdama Sahib only became a takht in 1966!! And that takth also became centre of Bhindrawala. infact if you go there now, it is still very largely influenced by Bhindrawala. It proves you know little about Punjabi religious politics.. infact, just look at how powerful Dal Khalsa is today.. the nanakshahi calendar was challenged by Dal Khalsa and it became a major Sikh issue.. but again, what do you know? Also, Pakistani gurudwaras have now got their own prabandh comitee, they are no longer under the SGPC. do you know what that means?? that means that the new, the 6th takth, will now be in Pakistan..



> Secondly I never said that sikhism is defined by national boundaries,If you are not under the influence of alcohol(which is clear by now after you listed the "important gurudwaras")please read it again "sikhism was born in India".I challenge you if you can prove me wrong with this.
> 
> Thirdly- "stop giving me lectures on Sikhism" to the world.



Yes because "Sikhism was born in India" is the most idiotic thing i've heard. There was no such thing as India.. Sikhism was born in Punjab.. otherwise, Sikhism is divided straight down the middle.. Guru Nanak was born in present day Pakistan and all significant shrines relating to Guru Nanak's birth and death are located in Pakistan..


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## Jatt Boy

Why Indian members still posting in this thread :O

I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1136)

The Brahmins observe twenty-four fasts during the year, and the Muslims fast during the month of Ramadaan. The Muslims set aside eleven months, and claim that the treasure is only in the one month. ||3|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1349)

I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan. I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. ||1|| The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah. He adminsters justice to both Hindus and Muslims. ||1||Pause|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1136)

If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong? According to the Hindus, the Lord`s Name abides in the idol, but there is no truth in either of these claims. ||1|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang1349)

The God of the Hindus lives in the southern lands, and the God of the Muslims lives in the west. So search in your heart - look deep into your heart of hearts; this is the home and the place where God lives. ||2|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1349)

First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1349)

"The mind is not softened by fasting or austerities. Nothing else is equal to worship of the Lord's Name." (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 905)

"The pilgrimage to shrines, fasting, cleanliness and self-mortification are not of any avail, nor are the rituals, religious ceremonies and hollow adoration's. Deliverance, O! Nanak! is in the devotional service of God. Through duality the mortal is engrossed in worldliness. (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 75) 

"Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny. If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman?" (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 477)
---------------------

Some one mentioned Sikhism will vanish if nuclear war occurs in South Asia. Sikhs have an obligation to have the pilgrimage of Word. (_Tirath nahavan jao tirath naam hai_). Sikhism does not believe in pilgrimages. 

Sikhism is the most simple and straightforward religion, but it is a tragedy that various vested interests have tried to misinterpret the philosophy of Sikhism.

@ Iqbal_Brar and other Sikh posters - Dont be upset if someone try to define Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism.


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## Justin Joseph

Iqbal_Brar said:


> and this is why i said earlier why do you guys comment on Sikhs when you know nothing??
> 
> justin joseph, yes those pics are true but at same time maybe u don't know but every story in those pictures has story related to good friendly muslims (read Sufi Muslims) who tried to save them.. people like Hazrat Mian Mir or the Sherwani Nawabs..
> 
> and second point, who are u to tell us who we can forgive and we can't?? we are not stupid we know what type of games you people try to play.. try to make sikhs fight one community with another..
> 
> asq, those pictures are true... not nonsense.. but at same time it is also true that there was muslim regiment in Sikh Khalsa army..




But the fact is that The Great Sikh Gurus were executed.

Dhyan Singh Dogra a Hindu was the prime minister of Sher e Punjab Maharaja Ranjit Singh. And there were Hindu regiments too, Isn't it


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## Mirza Jatt

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Aho, bahut vadiya jawab.. vi jeh tenu patta ni, tah hunn saare Gurudware hi important hoge!! loll.. Gurudwarayan di vi significance haigi janaab.. otherwise, why would people go to places like golden temple yaa pher Hazoor Sahab, if all gurudwaras were important..?? It proves that ure far from Sikh culture.. truth is that not every gurudwara is important.. since these days people have opened up Gurudwaras at every corner.. those Gurudwaras are there because of historical significance.. otherwise, if you are true sikh, you can even sit at home and pray, God does not see any difference if you're in gurudwara or anywhere.. because god is everywhere in the world..



Oh veerji mennu gurudware da list banaun da koi shaouk nai,naal je tussi importance di gal karde o te main ta hun vi kehnda sare gurudwaras important ne...for your information people go to golden temple and hazoor sahab because they are significant in their own manner in the history of sikhism and the gurus...and yes its good that you agree that god is everywhere in the world,and if god is everywhere then even the less known gurudawars are important since..i hope you'll be able to get the difference between 'important' and historically significant'.And thanks for saying that I am far from sikhism,cuz i am not interested in knowing what religion you follow that you have given the name of sikhism.



> as for five takths, you are an idiot if you think that all those takths are historical takths of Sikhs.. only Akal takth is.. other than that.. takth of Damdama Sahib only became a takht in 1966!! And that takth also became centre of Bhindrawala. infact if you go there now, it is still very largely influenced by Bhindrawala. It proves you know little about Punjabi religious politics.. infact, just look at how powerful Dal Khalsa is today.. the nanakshahi calendar was challenged by Dal Khalsa and it became a major Sikh issue.. but again, what do you know? Also, Pakistani gurudwaras have now got their own prabandh comitee, they are no longer under the SGPC. do you know what that means?? that means that the new, the 6th takth, will now be in Pakistan..



So you mean to say that apart from akal takht none of the takhts have historical significance (or important as you call it)..lol...haha..Gosh ! and you say I am far from my religion? haha..

read it know the historical significance of takhts ...

damdama sahib - At this place Guru Gobind Singh stayed here for approximately a year and compiled the final edition of Guru Granth Sahib also known as the Damdama Sahib.

kesgarh sahib - It is the birthplace of the Khalsa (I hope you are understanding this).The order of the Khalsa was founded here by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699. Some of the weapons of Guru Gobind Singh are displayed here.



hazoor sahib - This is the place where Guru Gobind Singh left for Heavenly abode. The inner room of the temple is called Angitha Sahib and is built over the place where Guru Gobind Singh was cremated in 1708.

patna sahib - Guru Gobind Singh Ji was born here (please note)in 1666 and he spent his early childhood here before moving to Anandpur Sahib. Besides being the birthplace of Guru Gobind Singh , Patna was also visited by Guru Nanak and Guru Tegh Bahadur at different points of time. 

akal takht -The Guru established it, because he thought that secular political matters should not be considered in the Golden Temple, which is meant purely for worship of God. Here the Guru held his court and decided matters of military strategy and political policy. Later on, the Sikh commonwealth (Sarbat Khalsa) took decisions here on matters of peace and war and settled disputes between the various Sikh groups.

As far as ur view on punjabi religiou politics..brother sorry to say but you are one of those mind in Punjab who has still not learnt anything from the past incidents in Punjab.Still I agree Dal Khalsa has grown strong and there is nothing wrong in it.





> Yes because "Sikhism was born in India" is the most idiotic thing i've heard. There was no such thing as India.. Sikhism was born in Punjab.. otherwise, Sikhism is divided straight down the middle.. Guru Nanak was born in present day Pakistan and all significant shrines relating to Guru Nanak's birth and death are located in Pakistan..



Brother read your own sentence..'there was no such thing as India'...was there Pakistan???? 

yes Guru nanak's birth and deat place are in Pakistan..so you follow only nanak..if yes then Paksitan is the holiest place for you....If you follow sikhsim,i.e all 10 gurus (I hope since talk about Dal Khalsa,cuz the founder of Khalsa was born and dead in India) then you will easily agree that India has a greater significance in regards to our religion.


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## Iqbal_Brar

Indian Jatt said:


> Oh veerji mennu gurudware da list banaun da koi shaouk nai,naal je tussi importance di gal karde o te main ta hun vi kehnda sare gurudwaras important ne...for your information people go to golden temple and hazoor sahab because they are significant in their own manner in the history of sikhism and the gurus...and yes its good that you agree that god is everywhere in the world,and if god is everywhere then even the less known gurudawars are important since..i hope you'll be able to get the difference between 'important' and historically significant'.And thanks for saying that I am far from sikhism,cuz i am not interested in knowing what religion you follow that you have given the name of sikhism.



so now u agree Golden temple and Hazoor Sahib are significant.. jadon main Nanakana Sahib keha, odho tenu ki hogeya si??



> So you mean to say that apart from akal takht none of the takhts have historical significance (or important as you call it)..lol...haha..Gosh ! and you say I am far from my religion? haha..
> 
> read it know the historical significance of takhts ...
> 
> damdama sahib - At this place Guru Gobind Singh stayed here for approximately a year and compiled the final edition of Guru Granth Sahib also known as the Damdama Sahib.
> 
> kesgarh sahib - It is the birthplace of the Khalsa (I hope you are understanding this).The order of the Khalsa was founded here by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699. Some of the weapons of Guru Gobind Singh are displayed here.
> 
> hazoor sahib - This is the place where Guru Gobind Singh left for Heavenly abode. The inner room of the temple is called Angitha Sahib and is built over the place where Guru Gobind Singh was cremated in 1708.
> 
> patna sahib - Guru Gobind Singh Ji was born here (please note)in 1666 and he spent his early childhood here before moving to Anandpur Sahib. Besides being the birthplace of Guru Gobind Singh , Patna was also visited by Guru Nanak and Guru Tegh Bahadur at different points of time.
> 
> akal takht -The Guru established it, because he thought that secular political matters should not be considered in the Golden Temple, which is meant purely for worship of God. Here the Guru held his court and decided matters of military strategy and political policy. Later on, the Sikh commonwealth (Sarbat Khalsa) took decisions here on matters of peace and war and settled disputes between the various Sikh groups.



Hehe.. those are Gurudwaras.. there is a DIFFERENCE in the Takths and Gurudwaras... Damdama Sahib, Kesgarh Sahib, Patna Sahib, Hazoor Sahib were gurudwaras waaayyyy before the takths were established there... man... honestly... lolll.... this is so stupid.. you don't know **** alll about Sikh religion and you think you're in good position to discuss with me only because you were born in Jatt family.. lollll.... honestly bro go learn a thing or two than talk.. or just keep fluttering the tiranga and don't waste my time here pretending to know something... i'm not against India.... just calling spade for a spade.. I miss RobbieS... hes one guy who knows his stuff and is capable of discussing.. you are just a total time waste...



> As far as ur view on punjabi religiou politics..brother sorry to say but you are one of those mind in Punjab who has still not learnt anything from the past incidents in Punjab.Still I agree Dal Khalsa has grown strong and there is nothing wrong in it.



There is nothing wrong with strong Dal Khalsa? Oh mere bhrava eh kiven ho sakda vi tehnu koi problem hi nai Dal Khalsa de naal? Especially since they are heavily pro-Khalistan.. lolll.. main tah kehna ho hi ni sakda vi tere varga banda kahe that nothing wrong with Dal Khalsa... teri Bharat Maa de khilaaf ne oho! bharat maa de laal!! lolll..




> Brother read your own sentence..'there was no such thing as India'...was there Pakistan????
> 
> yes Guru nanak's birth and deat place are in Pakistan..so you follow only nanak..if yes then Paksitan is the holiest place for you....If you follow sikhsim,i.e all 10 gurus (I hope since talk about Dal Khalsa,cuz the founder of Khalsa was born and dead in India) then you will easily agree that India has a greater significance in regards to our religion.



lollll!! Veerji rehn do.. I'm literally laughing my *** off... You don't have a clue about Dal Khalsa do you?? LOL..

And I didn't say Sikhism is closer to India or Pakistan.. lollll... ure obviously a little low in.. mmm.. smartness... Sikhism is a religion with no boundaries... Nankana Sahib is considered holiest shrine by Sikhs.. I did not say that.. it is SGPC which says that... it is your bad luck that Nankana Sahib is in Pakistan and that doesn't sit well with your stupid nationalism...


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## Iqbal_Brar

Jatt Boy said:


> Why Indian members still posting in this thread :O
> 
> I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1136)
> 
> The Brahmins observe twenty-four fasts during the year, and the Muslims fast during the month of Ramadaan. The Muslims set aside eleven months, and claim that the treasure is only in the one month. ||3|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1349)
> 
> I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan. I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. ||1|| The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah. He adminsters justice to both Hindus and Muslims. ||1||Pause|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1136)
> 
> If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong? According to the Hindus, the Lord`s Name abides in the idol, but there is no truth in either of these claims. ||1|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang1349)
> 
> The God of the Hindus lives in the southern lands, and the God of the Muslims lives in the west. So search in your heart - look deep into your heart of hearts; this is the home and the place where God lives. ||2|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1349)
> 
> First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1349)
> 
> "The mind is not softened by fasting or austerities. Nothing else is equal to worship of the Lord's Name." (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 905)
> 
> "The pilgrimage to shrines, fasting, cleanliness and self-mortification are not of any avail, nor are the rituals, religious ceremonies and hollow adoration's. Deliverance, O! Nanak! is in the devotional service of God. Through duality the mortal is engrossed in worldliness. (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 75)
> 
> "Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny. If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman?" (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 477)
> ---------------------
> 
> Some one mentioned Sikhism will vanish if nuclear war occurs in South Asia. Sikhs have an obligation to have the pilgrimage of Word. (_Tirath nahavan jao tirath naam hai_). Sikhism does not believe in pilgrimages.
> 
> Sikhism is the most simple and straightforward religion, but it is a tragedy that various vested interests have tried to misinterpret the philosophy of Sikhism.
> 
> @ Iqbal_Brar and other Sikh posters - Dont be upset if someone try to define Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism.



Thank you veere!!!! Sorry brother it is upsetting when I see people who don't know anything about Sikhism trying to spread propaganda and lies about it... and especially when there are Hindus out there who think that if a Sikh is proud of his distinct identity he is a extremist... but thank you.. your post is excellent and spot on!!


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## yuba

A.R. said:


> R u with the pakistani side..??



who you calling a pakistani


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## thebrownguy

yuba said:


> who you calling a pakistani



Yuba, he misunderstood your post.


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## thebrownguy

Iqbal Brar Sir, no one is trying to absorb Sikhism into Hinduism. The point being made is the two cultures have been very strongly bonded into each other. There is a lot of mutual respect between the two faiths. We all know sikhs have their own special identity as followers of Sikhism and not Hinduism.


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## yuba

thebrownguy said:


> Yuba, he misunderstood your post.



all i was pointing out brownguy was the hypocracy that some of our so called sikh elders live by i see it all the time in england which i live 4 or 5 months of the year and in punjab the rest of the year


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## thebrownguy

yuba said:


> all i was pointing out brownguy was the hypocracy that some of our so called sikh elders live by i see it all the time in england which i live 4 or 5 months of the year and in punjab the rest of the year



i got your post bro, i know!!


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## yuba

thebrownguy said:


> i got your post bro, i know!!



thanks mate


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## Iqbal_Brar

thebrownguy said:


> Iqbal Brar Sir, no one is trying to absorb Sikhism into Hinduism. The point being made is the two cultures have been very strongly bonded into each other. There is a lot of mutual respect between the two faiths. We all know sikhs have their own special identity as followers of Sikhism and not Hinduism.



What is that? Culture is different than religion. All Indians are bounded culturally... Sikhs.. Hindus.. Muslims.. Christians.. Buddhists.. Jains.. and further, Sikhs of Punjab are culturally more similar to Hindus and Muslims of Punjab.. Sikhs of Maharashtra more culturally similar to Hindus of Maharashtra... why try to mix in religion and culture? you may not have any motive and are naively following this trend of thinking, but RSS have long tried to absorb Sikhi.. infact they are on missionary mode in Punjab now.. printing their own version of Sikh literature and distributing it for free in Punjab.. they even made their own branch called Rashtriya Sikh Sangat in Punjab... its head, a so called Hindu "convert" to Sikhism.. only there to hinduinize the sikh religion..


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## A.R.

thebrownguy said:


> i got your post bro, i know!!



mee tooo..

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## Mirza Jatt

Iqbal_Brar said:


> so now u agree Golden temple and Hazoor Sahib are significant.. jadon main Nanakana Sahib keha, odho tenu ki hogeya si??
> 
> Bai main pehlo kehnda aa je sare je some are significant historically and not "important".
> 
> 
> 
> Hehe.. those are Gurudwaras.. there is a DIFFERENCE in the Takths and Gurudwaras... Damdama Sahib, Kesgarh Sahib, Patna Sahib, Hazoor Sahib were gurudwaras waaayyyy before the takths were established there... man... honestly... lolll.... this is so stupid.. you don't know **** alll about Sikh religion and you think you're in good position to discuss with me only because you were born in Jatt family.. lollll.... honestly bro go learn a thing or two than talk.. or just keep fluttering the tiranga and don't waste my time here pretending to know something... i'm not against India.... just calling spade for a spade.. I miss RobbieS... hes one guy who knows his stuff and is capable of discussing.. you are just a total time waste...



It might be later that takhts were established in these gurudwaras but in no way it decreases the significance of these gurudwaras..which are very much part of sikh history...however they are still Takhts..later or sooner(enough for me to have respect for them,and not lowering its value by calling it not important).





> There is nothing wrong with strong Dal Khalsa? Oh mere bhrava eh kiven ho sakda vi tehnu koi problem hi nai Dal Khalsa de naal? Especially since they are heavily pro-Khalistan.. lolll.. main tah kehna ho hi ni sakda vi tere varga banda kahe that nothing wrong with Dal Khalsa... teri Bharat Maa de khilaaf ne oho! bharat maa de laal!! lolll.....



There you are mistaken brother...You are trying to be so smart during the posts that you don't even remmber what the topic was..the question was wether u'll support Pak or India....and you had taken your stand with Pakistan,I don't hate Dal Khalsa but I surely like fighting my battles my own and not taking help from across border,moreover ,it did not remain the group what it started for.Thir motive has changed since their earlier resolution(I know you'll never approve of it,I don't ****care)!!



> lollll!! Veerji rehn do.. I'm literally laughing my *** off... You don't have a clue about Dal Khalsa do you?? LOL..
> 
> And I didn't say Sikhism is closer to India or Pakistan.. lollll... ure obviously a little low in.. mmm.. smartness... Sikhism is a religion with no boundaries... Nankana Sahib is considered holiest shrine by Sikhs.. I did not say that.. it is SGPC which says that... it is your bad luck that Nankana Sahib is in Pakistan and that doesn't sit well with your stupid nationalism...



ha ha ..I would have a lot of smartness if I would have agreed with your stupid thoughts...

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## Arik

i read that the sikhs in Pakistan had fled india to hide from aurangzeb who hated people of any other religion other than islam.


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## Mirza Jatt

Arik said:


> i read that the sikhs in Pakistan had fled india to hide from aurangzeb who hated people of any other religion other than islam.



Brother u read it wrong ,cuz there was no India and Pakistan at tht time..morover, Sikhs fought them and defeated them.Infact they even saved Hindus from the Mughals.

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## Arik

Indian Jatt said:


> Brother u read it wrong ,cuz there was no India and Pakistan at tht time..morover, Sikhs fought them and defeated them.Infact they even saved Hindus from the Mughals.



I know there was no India Pakistan at that time.But the influence Aurangzeb had in present day NWFP was minimal.Thats why the sikhs felt secure and settled down there.


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## Mirza Jatt

Arik said:


> I know there was no India Pakistan at that time.But the influence Aurangzeb had in present day NWFP was minimal.Thats why the sikhs felt secure and settled down there.



sikhs were always present where they are now.I'll b able to throw some more light if you clearify what do you mean by NWFP exactly? you mean the present day Indian side of Punjab or the Lahore side of Pakistan?


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## thebrownguy

Indian Jatt said:


> sikhs were always present where they are now.I'll b able to throw some more light if you clearify what do you mean by NWFP exactly? you mean the present day Indian side of Punjab or the Lahore side of Pakistan?



Border areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan, the Pashtun areas.


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## Arik

Indian Jatt said:


> sikhs were always present where they are now.I'll b able to throw some more light if you clearify what do you mean by NWFP exactly? you mean the present day Indian side of Punjab or the Lahore side of Pakistan?



i mean the place where paksitan is currently fighting the taliban(thats where majority of pakistani sikhs live). I read the article in the times of india.


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## Mirza Jatt

Okey..its for sure that sikh were present in the NWFP but its still untrue,or atleast not heard of by me that they fled to India aftr being opressed by Mughals or Aurangzeb in particular.Infact you'll get thousand of sources citing the bravery of the sikhs in the fight against Aurangzeb.


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## Iqbal_Brar

okk baii.. ah leh thode thande jawab loll..



Indian Jatt said:


> It might be later that takhts were established in these gurudwaras but in no way it decreases the significance of these gurudwaras..which are very much part of sikh history...however they are still Takhts..later or sooner(enough for me to have respect for them,and not lowering its value by calling it not important).



Kithe gall nu laeke jaa rehan guru...



> There you are mistaken brother...You are trying to be so smart during the posts that you don't even remmber what the topic was..the question was wether u'll support Pak or India....and you had taken your stand with Pakistan,I don't hate Dal Khalsa but I surely like fighting my battles my own and not taking help from across border,moreover ,it did not remain the group what it started for.Thir motive has changed since their earlier resolution(I know you'll never approve of it,I don't ****care)!!



ohhh mere bhravaa... again.... I did not do anything.. you again jumped the bandookh.. lol... would you like to quote me on taking a stand with Pakistan?? i think u like shooting yourself in the foot..



> ha ha ..I would have a lot of smartness if I would have agreed with your stupid thoughts...



actually.... its true.. you would definitely have seem far more smarter if you agreed with me... because atleast that would mean you post a lot less.. nd the less you post, the smarter you seem..


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## asq

A.R. said:


> you definitely proved that you have no idea about sikhism in real..
> 
> 
> you also have no idea about hinduism



There u go again, talk is about Sikhs

and u go start u dont know about Hindu religion.


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## manish123

asq said:


> There u go again, talk is about Sikhs
> 
> and u go start u dont know about Hindu religion.



It is u who does not understand sikh and Hindus.
I am half sikh and half Hindu and before u start throwing abuses.Sikhs are a martial race formed from Elite hindu fighters to deter islamic invasions into india.Sardarji is a word used by Hindus out of respect and sikhs being the most easy going people(except when roused) have a great sense of humour where they tolerate jokes upon themselves and themselves cut jokes.Sad part is many aspects of sikhism is not known to hindus like

a. they are the sword arm of India .
b. Sikhs had a great empire covering past punjab, jammu, afghanistan
and under Maharaja Ranjit singh the britishers were unable to capture punjab till 1911.He was a terror for them.Punjab has hardly been under colonial control and even after they were conquered bhagat singh, lala lajpat Rai etc.,Made hell for the britishers.
Cc.The sacrificies of the sikh gurus is sadly never taught to hindus. People should read guru Gobind Singh ji Etc. and come to realize what sikhs actually are for india.


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## A.R.

asq said:


> There u go again, talk is about Sikhs
> 
> and u go start u dont know about Hindu religion.



yes because you said that hinduism only support idol worship...

haven't you heard about Arya Samajis...

secondly, hindu thought are also with Eshwar... Eshwar is the supreme power above all gods which has no body, you ca't see him .... and gods(idols) are the angels ....


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## indian_musing

manish123 said:


> It is u who does not understand sikh and Hindus.
> I am half sikh and half Hindu and before u start throwing abuses.Sikhs are a martial race formed from Elite hindu fighters to deter islamic invasions into india.Sardarji is a word used by Hindus out of respect and sikhs being the most easy going people(except when roused) have a great sense of humour where they tolerate jokes upon themselves and themselves cut jokes.Sad part is many aspects of sikhism is not known to hindus like
> 
> a. they are the sword arm of India .
> b. Sikhs had a great empire covering past punjab, jammu, afghanistan
> and under Maharaja Ranjit singh the britishers were unable to capture punjab till 1911.He was a terror for them.Punjab has hardly been under colonial control and even after they were conquered bhagat singh, lala lajpat Rai etc.,Made hell for the britishers.
> Cc.The sacrificies of the sikh gurus is sadly never taught to hindus. People should read guru Gobind Singh ji Etc. and come to realize what sikhs actually are for india.



Sikhs are very brave people. They saved india from aghan invasion and destruction. We owe them a lot.

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## manish123

indian_musing said:


> Sikhs are very brave people. They saved india from aghan invasion and destruction. We owe them a lot.



yes India_musings.Any hindu who would study the life of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji will have tears in his eyes that so much sacrifice has gone into saving india.Only thing is Sikhs are too proud to talk about this and expect at the minimal that hindus read about this and understand their sacrifces.


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## Mirza Jatt

vadiya hoya je tussi thande jawab dena sikh gaye o..hun thande replies hi melange.



Iqbal_Brar said:


> okk baii.. ah leh thode thande jawab loll
> 
> 
> Kithe gall nu laeke jaa rehan guru...
> 
> 
> 
> ohhh mere bhravaa... again.... I did not do anything.. you again jumped the bandookh.. lol... would you like to quote me on taking a stand with Pakistan?? i think u like shooting yourself in the foot..
> 
> 
> 
> actually.... its true.. you would definitely have seem far more smarter if you agreed with me... because atleast that would mean you post a lot less.. nd the less you post, the smarter you seem..



ha ha ..that was expected from you bro...I know when someone does not agree with your stupid thoughts,its but obvious that you'll want to hear less of it...but stil agree with you..I am not smart..cuz you see i have been arguing with you..hitting my head against the wall...


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## Marxist

there is no need of 26 pages length thread to discuss the loyalty of our sikh brothers,we have a great history of 100's to prove tat


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## courageneverdies

^^^ Yeah despite of Golden Temple and Khalistan conflict, still there is a 100&#37; way to prove how "Brotherly" your relations are.

To me it is just a stupid question. The Sikhs, and other communities in India will support India and those who are in Pakistan will certainly support Pakistan because of their ownselves. For their families etc. Its just a stupid discussion and I don't believe I am posting it.

KIT Over and Out

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## Frankenstein

Zaheerkhan said:


> I must say that the Sikhs of India are the most patriotic people. They are more patriotic about India than even Hindus, even the ex-army chief of India was a sikh..for God's sake, *even the Prime Minister of India is a Sikh*.


But born in Pakistan, in other words Pakistani Sikh


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## Justin Joseph

Adolf Hitler said:


> there is no need of 26 pages length thread to discuss the loyalty of our sikh brothers,we have a great history of 100's to prove tat



This is a troll thread. Some elements can't digest development and progress in our Punjab. They want all to suffer.


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## Justin Joseph

Frankenstein said:


> But born in Pakistan, in other words Pakistani Sikh



No u lack info.

Sardar Manmohan Singhji was born in India. And that part is now in Pakistan.

He was born in India and now ruling India, it shows our secular and democratic credentials.

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## yuba

Frankenstein said:


> But born in Pakistan, in other words Pakistani Sikh



by your logic your ex leader musharraf was born in india a indian muslim


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## RobbieS

I am surprised this thread has carried on for so long. I dont intend to have the last words but I can clear up some things.

Conceptually Sikhism is very similar to Islam. Mainly because many of the early Sikh Gurus were influenced by the mystical and tolerant version of Islam followed by the Sufi saints in Punjab.

Having said that, culturally, in India at least, Sikhs have had pretty good relations with Hindus. Except the 1984 anti Sikh riots, relations between the two communities have been great. A big indicator of that is inter-religious marriages between the two communities. While we know of several instances of weddings between a Hindus and Sikhs I have hardly seen an instance of a Sikh marrying a Muslim, at least in India.

And btw, I have to reiterate, that nobody can question Sikh support to the Indian nation. Doubts were raised due to what happened in the 80's but things are back to normal now. The last remaining sore point is the prosecution of the 84 riots accused. GoI, especially the Congress must prove that it is sensitive to the community's demands. An apology in the parliament is hardly a balm for tortured souls but coming from a Sikh PM, its like a slap on the face of us all Sikhs. The accused have to be punished and not protected.

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## A.R.

self deleted...


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## biplob

Iqbal_Brar said:


> lol.. this "kid of silly post" is giving direct citations from the Sikh holy book.. the Adi Granth... so accept it nor not we couldn't care less.. we know how much u love ure chadiwalla RSS unclejis and their BS RSS books which write jibberish about Sikhs... just showing u that reality is different... no wonder why Hindus in India don't even know 1% of Sikhi...



I can understand the sentiments of some calling himself *Iqbal*_Brar,lol...

So who are friends of Sikhs ,the secular congress party who massacred thousands of sikhs.

U blame chadiwalla RSS for tarneshing ur religion.Fine.
But the biggest sikh party Akali Dal is a partner of the same RSS and BJP .

Here is what prominent secular sikh writer Mr Khuswant Singh wrote about hindu fundametalist RSS activities during the sikh riots of 1984.




> "*RSS has played an honorable role in maintaining Hindu-Sikh unity before and after the murder of Indira Gandhi in Delhi and in other places"
> "It was the Congress (I) leaders who instigated mobs in 1984 and got more than 3000 people killed. I must give due credit to RSS and the BJP for showing courage and protecting helpless Sikhs during those difficult days"*



Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## asq

Justin Joseph said:


> No u lack info.
> 
> Sardar Manmohan Singhji was born in India. And that part is now in Pakistan.
> 
> He was born in India and now ruling India, it shows our secular and democratic credentials.



JJ that is token representation, look at the comon sikh and than tell me, not the manmohan who was put to rule as Mrs sonia was reluctant due to anger of most hindu leader for her being Italian.


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## biplob

RobbieS said:


> I am surprised this thread has carried on for so long. I dont intend to have the last words but I can clear up some things.
> 
> Conceptually Sikhism is very similar to Islam. Mainly because many of the early Sikh Gurus were influenced by the mystical and tolerant version of Islam followed by the Sufi saints in Punjab.
> 
> Having said that, culturally, in India at least, Sikhs have had pretty good relations with Hindus. Except the 1984 anti Sikh riots, relations between the two communities have been great. A big indicator of that is inter-religious marriages between the two communities. While we know of several instances of weddings between a Hindus and Sikhs I have hardly seen an instance of a Sikh marrying a Muslim, at least in India.
> 
> And btw, I have to reiterate, that nobody can question Sikh support to the Indian nation. Doubts were raised due to what happened in the 80's but things are back to normal now. The last remaining sore point is the prosecution of the 84 riots accused. GoI, especially the Congress must prove that it is sensitive to the community's demands. An apology in the parliament is hardly a balm for tortured souls but coming from a Sikh PM, its like a slap on the face of us all Sikhs. The accused have to be punished and not protected.



Sikhism is close to hinduism body and soul,
The hinduism that based on the Vedas .

The Sikh religion is made by gurus who were hindus by birth and followers who too are khattri or jatt hindu ,later on joined by lower caste hindus.There was no conversion from islam to sikhism discounting few muslim sufi saints who coperated with sikh gurus.


The sikhs and hindu can inter marry and its not taboo.,its surprising in a caste ridden hindu .They visit each others place of worship.
U never see such collaboration among sikhs and muslims.

Just few days ago i was reading an article written By Tariq Ali, who was bemoaning how the Sikh ruled punjab and kashmir ruined were worst time in those region *.And one of the reason he gave was the banning on cow slaughter ordered by sikh rulers of that time.*


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## FreekiN

Who saw this.


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## RobbieS

> biplob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sikhism is close to hinduism body and soul,
> The hinduism that based on the Vedas .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you'd read the Bani of the Gurus, and principles of Sikhism, its very different from Hinduism. But this ain't the forum to discuss it and I'd prefer continuing our discussion through PM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sikh religion is made by gurus who were hindus by birth and followers who too are khattri or jatt hindu ,later on joined by lower caste hindus.There was no conversion from islam to sikhism discounting few muslim sufi saints who coperated with sikh gurus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If we talk about the Gurus, most were of the Bedi sub-caste. In fact the first 6 Gurus were all related and of the same Bedi sub-caste, which is now classified as one of the backward classes in Punjab.
> 
> And none of the Gurus were Jatts. You do have a lot to learn about Sikhism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sikhs and hindu can inter marry and its not taboo.,its surprising in a caste ridden hindu .They visit each others place of worship.
> U never see such collaboration among sikhs and muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I talked about the same point in my post that you quoted. In terms of visiting each other's places of worship, some Sikhs do visit mazars and dargahs of Sufi saints. Faridkot hosts a major mela every year to commemorate the Sufi saint Baba Farid. Sikhs throng that mela in huge numbers.
> 
> Whatever we have talked about has hardly any significance for Indian Sikhs support to the Indian nation. Sikhs in India continue to serve their nation to their utmost capacity.
Click to expand...

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## Prometheus

FreekiN said:


> YouTube - Sikhs Welcome Pakistan's decision to bring Anand Karaj Act
> 
> Who saw this.




WHO IS HE????

Is he king of sikhs??? or leader of sikhs????


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## FreekiN

Prometheus said:


> WHO IS HE????
> 
> Is he king of sikhs??? or leader of sikhs????



lol i didnt know they had a king.

probably some cleric


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## Iqbal_Brar

biplob said:


> I can understand the sentiments of some calling himself *Iqbal*_Brar,lol...



Whats that even suppose to mean?? You now have a problem with my name? Add me on facebook and we'll talk... And add me from your REAL profile, not some BS fake profile which most RSS/chadiwalla supporters always use... I'm not afraid to use my real name unlike you...



> So who are friends of Sikhs ,the secular congress party who massacred thousands of sikhs.
> 
> U blame chadiwalla RSS for tarneshing ur religion.Fine.
> But the biggest sikh party Akali Dal is a partner of the same RSS and BJP .



Akali Dal (Badal) is a power hungry party, they don't represent Sikhs.. and the most funny thing is you're pointing out their alliance with BJP/RSS to me and you don't even know that Akali Dal (Badal) is the same party which also shakes hands with extremist Sikhs and has allowed the picture of the Bhindrawala to be hung in the main Sikh museum at Amritsar... they play both sides and people like you blindly fall into their trap.. lol.. go learn something about Punjab politics first before talking..



> Here is what prominent secular sikh writer Mr Khuswant Singh wrote about hindu fundametalist RSS activities during the sikh riots of 1984.
> 
> Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Ohhh.... he is a "prominent Sikh" writer now.. LOL.. you can call him a "prominent writer".. that is it.. otherwise, his views go against the mainstream... he has described himself as not-religious.. and his views on Sikhism are hardly in line with the mainstream Sikh community and they tread the line as blasphemous... when the whole mona and keshdari row started in SGPC (asking if clean shaven Sikhs should be given the same right to vote in SGPC elections) Khushwant Singh's views were rejected by the Sikh body.. as he stated that anybody who claims to be a Sikh should be able to vote... now that was rejected and will never happen.. because that would mean every other Hindu RSS chap would also be able to vote in Sikh SGPC elections merely by saying he is a Sikh... lolll...


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## Iqbal_Brar

biplob said:


> Sikhism is close to hinduism body and soul,
> The hinduism that based on the Vedas .
> 
> The Sikh religion is made by gurus who were hindus by birth and followers who too are khattri or jatt hindu ,later on joined by lower caste hindus.There was no conversion from islam to sikhism discounting few muslim sufi saints who coperated with sikh gurus.



Not true. But copy pasting much? Didn't I already answer this on other thread?



> The sikhs and hindu can inter marry and its not taboo.,its surprising in a caste ridden hindu .



LOL. No they can't!! Yes, there are some communities which do intermarry but that is because their caste/community comes before religion... like the Mazhabis.. they inter-marry between Sikhs.. Hindus.. Muslims.. Here is perfect example (a "Muslim" sardar):








> They visit each others place of worship.
> U never see such collaboration among sikhs and muslims.



Errrrr.... yes you do.. go visit Faridkot.. or Qadaam.. or many other places where Masjids and Gurudwaras are basically joined and both Muslims and Sikhs worship together.. infact the gurudwara/masjid in Qadaam is even historical as Guru Gobind stayed their as a child and was under the care of a Muslim family.. hence that place..



> Just few days ago i was reading an article written By Tariq Ali, who was bemoaning how the Sikh ruled punjab and kashmir ruined were worst time in those region *.And one of the reason he gave was the banning on cow slaughter ordered by sikh rulers of that time.*



Who is Tariq Ali? And why should we care? As for cow slaughter.. I don't know nor do I care.. all I know is that all animals are the same.. either you don't eat any.. or you eat them all..


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## Iqbal_Brar

FreekiN said:


> YouTube - Sikhs Welcome Pakistan's decision to bring Anand Karaj Act
> 
> Who saw this.





Prometheus said:


> WHO IS HE????
> 
> Is he king of sikhs??? or leader of sikhs????





FreekiN said:


> lol i didnt know they had a king.
> 
> probably some cleric




That is Simranjit Singh Mann.. he was a very high ranking police officer and commander of the Punjab Armed Police (the specialized branch of Punjab Police) in the 1980s... when Operation Blue Star happened he resigned from his position and joined the seperatists.. and ended up spending several years in Jail.. now he is the leader of the Akali Dal (Amritsar) party....

As for the Anand Karj Act, than yes, everybody applauds Pakistan for bringing that law into power in their country... because in India Sikhs have been fighting to have Anand Karj Act passed for over 60 years and Indian government is denying that right to Sikhs.. until today the government defines Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains as "Hindus" and puts them under Hindu act.. article 25b of constitution.. Sikhs have been fighting to get that change and even went to supreme court.. despite supreme court agreeing with Sikhs that article 25b discriminates against them.. Indian government still didn't change... and Sikhs of Pakistan now enjoy that law where Sikhs of India are still fighting for it....


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## leoberetta

aussie_1973 said:


> *Will Sikhs support and fight against India in case of all out war between India and Pakistan?*



i dnt understand y talking bout such things and some people saying that we met few sikhs and they were against India..sikhs r a very prosperous community living peacefully in India and hold various prominent position in Indian political and military establishments..pakistan tried to stir a major sikh rebellion back in the late 80's but they failed..Indian prime minister, chief of army staff had been sikhs...few pro khalistan activists hiding in pakistan doesnt means 
sikhs r against India..its totally irrelevant to discuss about it at present..even i can say that i met few pushtoons in mideast and they all were totaly against pakistan or i met various shia muslims in dubai and they hate pakistan...


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## biplob

RobbieS said:


> If you'd read the Bani of the Gurus, and principles of Sikhism, its very different from Hinduism. But this ain't the forum to discuss it and I'd prefer continuing our discussion through PM..




Thats because of u dont understand Hinduism.Well,there is such thing 
as called Hinduism,its a mere English word encompassing many strands of Satana dharma.I'm sure the Sikh gurus had never heard anything called "Hinduism".They didn't deliberately tried to teach 
something different from Hinduism.Sikh holy books name often Ram and Shiva as god and are heavily influenced by the "Vedas".

Guru Nanak was part the Bhakti movement at a time which saw many other gurus such as Santa Kabir ,Guru Ram das and other Sufi saint who were all influenced from each other.

Guru Nanak and others tried to bring religious reform in the Hindu practices which have wild with blind believes ,social ills like caste exploitations.Its was spiritual movement which preached spirituality in simplicity beyond Braminical ritualistic approach.




> [If we talk about the Gurus, most were of the Bedi sub-caste. In fact the first 6 Gurus were all related and of the same Bedi sub-caste, which is now classified as one of the backward classes in Punjab.
> 
> And none of the Gurus were Jatts. You do have a lot to learn about Sikhism.


Many of the followers of Sikhism are of Punjabi khatries and Jatt caste . Guru Nanak was of Khatri caste and so do other gurus.Rest of the Sikhs were lower caste. Hindus

*FYI,Bedi sub caste and other Sodhi, Trehan and Bhalla castes are part of the Khatri clan *. 





> I talked about the same point in my post that you quoted. In terms of visiting each other's places of worship, some Sikhs do visit mazars and dargahs of Sufi saints. Faridkot hosts a major mela every year to commemorate the Sufi saint Baba Farid. Sikhs throng that mela in huge numbers



well lot of Hindus also do visit Sufi darghas including me.

but how many Hindus or Sikhs go for Friday prayers in a mosque or how many Muslims come to Gurudwaras or Hindu temples to do arti??

On the other hand Sikhs and Hindus visit each others place of worship like temples and Gurudwaras



> Whatever we have talked about has hardly any significance for Indian Sikhs support to the Indian nation. Sikhs in India continue to serve their nation to their utmost capacity



'm no expert in Sikhism,but i knew few things abouts it and see whats happened on the ground over period Sikh history and I'm against that canard spread by some Iqbal_brar that *Sikhism is equally distanced from both Islam and Hindu religion which untrue*.

If Punjabi Sikhs are close to anyone in both religious and cultural , then it has to be the Punjabi Hindus since the Punjabi Muslims are part of alien Arab origin Islam which is very different how its read and practiced on the ground.


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## jinxeD_girl

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Whats that even suppose to mean?? You now have a problem with my name? Add me on facebook and we'll talk... *And add me from your REAL profile, not some BS fake profile which most RSS/chadiwalla supporters always use... *I'm not afraid to use my real name unlike you...



haha... you are so funny!!


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## RobbieS

biplob said:


> Thats because of u dont understand Hinduism.Well,there is such thing
> as called Hinduism,its a mere English word encompassing many strands of Satana dharma.I'm sure the Sikh gurus had never heard anything called "Hinduism".They didn't deliberately tried to teach
> something different from Hinduism.Sikh holy books name often Ram and Shiva as god and are heavily influenced by the "Vedas".
> 
> Guru Nanak was part the Bhakti movement at a time which saw many other gurus such as Santa Kabir ,Guru Ram das and other Sufi saint who were all influenced from each other.
> 
> Guru Nanak and others tried to bring religious reform in the Hindu practices which have wild with blind believes ,social ills like caste exploitations.Its was spiritual movement which preached spirituality in simplicity beyond Braminical ritualistic approach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [If we talk about the Gurus, most were of the Bedi sub-caste. In fact the first 6 Gurus were all related and of the same Bedi sub-caste, which is now classified as one of the backward classes in Punjab.
> 
> And none of the Gurus were Jatts. You do have a lot to learn about Sikhism.
> /QUOTE]
> Many of the followers of Sikhism are of Punjabi khatries and Jatt caste . Guru Nanak was of Khatri caste and so do other gurus.Rest of the Sikhs were lower caste. Hindus
> 
> *FYI,Bedi sub caste and other Sodhi, Trehan and Bhalla castes are part of the Khatri clan *.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well lot of Hindus also do visit Sufi darghas including me.
> 
> but how many Hindus or Sikhs go for Friday prayers in a mosque or how many Muslims come to Gurudwaras or Hindu temples to do arti??
> 
> On the other hand Sikhs and Hindus visit each others place of worship like temples and Gurudwaras
> 
> 
> 
> 'm no expert in Sikhism,but i knew few things abouts it and see whats happened on the ground over period Sikh history and I'm against that canard spread by some Iqbal_brar that *Sikhism is equally distanced from both Islam and Hindu religion which untrue*.
> 
> If Punjabi Sikhs are close to anyone in both religious and cultural , then it has to be the Punjabi Hindus since the Punjabi Muslims are part of alien Arab origin Islam which is very different how its read and practiced on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen, I tell you again, no Jatt was ever a Guru. I am myself a Jatt so I'd know.
> 
> Now lets take this Sikhism's similarity with other religions to another forum. It is off-topic.
Click to expand...


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## thebrownguy

This thread is pure BS, it needs to be closed. How can anyone challenge the patriotism of Indian sikhs? Mods please close this thread.


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## jinxeD_girl

thebrownguy said:


> This thread is pure BS, it needs to be closed. How can anyone challenge the patriotism of Indian sikhs? Mods please close this thread.



You are right.. this thread is stupid... Most Sikhs hold more grudges against Muslims as compared to hindus.. so ofcourse they will support Hindus and India

I don't know why some Pakistanis start such stupid threads...

and that guy biplob is annoying... trying to force his beliefs on Sikhs when Sikhs themselves are claiming again and again it is a different religion..


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## manish123

This thread is just a flamebait.

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## RobbieS

jinxeD_girl said:


> You are right.. this thread is stupid... Most Sikhs hold more grudges against Muslims as compared to hindus.. so ofcourse they will support Hindus and India
> 
> I don't know why some Pakistanis start such stupid threads...
> 
> and that guy biplob is annoying... trying to force his beliefs on Sikhs when Sikhs themselves are claiming again and again it is a different religion..



Well I don't mind Biplob. Irritating, but like any other noob, he's trying hard to force his opinions. I am sure he'd learn with time.


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## manish123

Sikhi is as different from hinduism as say buddhism or jainism.All the gurus(using the term loosely including buddha or teeranthkaras) found something wrong in the way hinduism(as we now call it) was being practised at that point in time.All religions thus have there own strands of individuality.Sikhs(talking about just them) do not want their religion to be submeresed into hinduism and want it to be distinct.The more talks out of R.S.S the more they will withdraw into themselves otherwise they had no problem with hindus, they just want to be left alone as far as their religion is concerned.I read somewhere that Ram is mentioned in the gurbani but would like to point out that the Ram that sikhi talks about is not Sri ram that hindus talk about .The ram in sikhi is more akin to the brahma of vedas(The only one).This is a very crude analogy and would require a lot more space,pls excuse if offended anybody.
The wounds of 1984 do hurt them but my 2 cent opinion is that slowly it will go into the background.Anyway if sikhi was not there in my own opinion bharat in its present form would not have been possible instead most of bharat as we know it today would have been pakistan. My grudge against the congress stems from the fact that every hindu knows gupta, maurya, chola, rajput, maratha etc but have never gone into the gurus who sacrificed so much. Everything pales in comparison.


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

self delete


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## Iqbal_Brar

jinxeD_girl said:


> Most Sikhs hold more grudges against Muslims as compared to hindus.. so ofcourse they will support Hindus and India



we don't hold grudges against anybody.. you keep repeating that but that goes both ways... most Sikhs generalize all Pakistani muslims after looking at people like Omar1984 and say all Muslims hold ill feelings towards Sikhs... same way you generalize all Sikhs... so really... its a mutual feeling going both ways.. i don't see why you call only one side on it...

secondly, on the topic of fighting for India.. it has nothing to do with siding with Muslims or Hindus... Sikhs are not gaddaars and our loyalty cannot be questioned.. we will fight for India.. especially more so because our land lies within borders of India and that means it is our responsibility do defend it... 



manish123 said:


> Sikhi is as different from hinduism as say buddhism or jainism.All the gurus(using the term loosely including buddha or teeranthkaras) found something wrong in the way hinduism(as we now call it) was being practised at that point in time.All religions thus have there own strands of individuality.Sikhs(talking about just them) do not want their religion to be submeresed into hinduism and want it to be distinct.The more talks out of R.S.S the more they will withdraw into themselves otherwise they had no problem with hindus, they just want to be left alone as far as their religion is concerned.



You're right!! And the most stupid thing is that when a Sikh fights for his distinct identity.. he is called "anti-national" "extremist" "terrorist" "khalistani".. but it is the RSS who is biggest anti-national force in India.. they will not let anyone live in peace.. they are causing problems with sikhs... RSS motive has to be questioned... they try to put hatred between sikhs and other communities.. they want to use sikhs as their personal weapon against other religions... few years ago RSS burned down this church in Punjab and they left back a copy of guru granth sahib to make it look like sikhs did it.. but when police caught them they were Hindu RSS cadres... it is stuff like that which gets our blood boiling.. even recently in Ludhiana when that Bihari baba set up camp there and Sikhs protested... the BJP/RSS people went to his camp with weapons and said they will defend him from sikhs.. they were only trying to anger sikhs.. because they were hiding behind police and doing that.. they will never confront sikhs face to face..



> I read somewhere that Ram is mentioned in the gurbani but would like to point out that the Ram that sikhi talks about is not Sri ram that hindus talk about .The ram in sikhi is more akin to the brahma of vedas(The only one).This is a very crude analogy and would require a lot more space,pls excuse if offended anybody.



yes.. ram... shiva.. waheguru... allah.. rabb... all are mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib but all refer to only one god... the message the gurus were trying to send out was that god is one.. it doesn't matter what name you call him... we don't believe that everyone has their own exclusive god... there is only one god who judges everybody.. based on their deeds...


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## jinxeD_girl

> we don't hold grudges against anybody.. you keep repeating that but that goes both ways... most Sikhs generalize all Pakistani muslims after looking at people like Omar1984 and say all Muslims hold ill feelings towards Sikhs... same way you generalize all Sikhs... so really... its a mutual feeling going both ways.. i don't see why you call only one side on it...



Ok Iqbal Brar sorry.. I take that back... Anywayz, I dont hate Sikhs, neither do I hate hindus.


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## biplob

RobbieS said:


> Listen, I tell you again, no Jatt was ever a Guru. I am myself a Jatt so I'd know.
> 
> Now lets take this Sikhism's similarity with other religions to another forum. It is off-topic.



Nowhere i said Sikh Gurus were Jatts.

Infact i had said the were all khatris.

The Bedi sub caste which u claimed gurus belonged is part of Khatri clan too.

Check u facts before making smartass comments and calling names .


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## biplob

jinxeD_girl said:


> You are right.. this thread is stupid... Most Sikhs hold more grudges against Muslims as compared to Hindus.. so ofcourse they will support Hindus and India
> 
> I don't know why some Pakistanis start such stupid threads...
> 
> and that guy biplob is annoying... trying to force his beliefs on Sikhs when Sikhs themselves are claiming again and again it is a different religion..




Listen madam,

Dont get into things beyond ur area of awareness which is already very small and narrow.

*Stick to issues such as skin colors and how fair & lovely Pakistani ppl look ,type topics on which u seems have abundant knowledge*.


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## RobbieS

biplob said:


> Nowhere i said Sikh Gurus were Jatts.
> 
> Infact i had said the were all khatris.
> 
> The Bedi sub caste which u claimed gurus belonged is part of Khatri clan too.
> 
> Check u facts before making smartass comments and calling names .



I misread your post. You had in fact mentioned that most of the followers were Jatts. 

But spare us Sikhs the gyan on Sikhism the next time.

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## jinxeD_girl

biplob said:


> Listen madam,
> 
> Dont get into things beyond ur area of awareness which is already very small and narrow.
> 
> *Stick to issues such as skin colors and how fair & lovely Pakistani ppl look ,type topics on which u seems have abundant knowledge*.



Oh Shutup... !! This is Pakistani forum and I will discuss whatever I like and share my opinions on whatever topic I like..


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## EjazR

There is this some weird and bigoted notion among people that there were "religious wars" going on when in fact most of the time it was geo-political wars between different alliances. A mentality still kept from the time of the colonial British who inculcated this.

Someone quoted about Sikh rulers banning cow slaughter, but what about the large number of Mughal and other Muslim rulers who did the same (including surprise surprise Aurangzeb as well) to respect Brahmins and Jains under their rule. 

It wasn't just "sikhs" fighting "muslims" to save "hindus". The reality was that the Mughals were allied to the Rajputs in almost all their battles. The Sikh armies included large contingent of Punjabi muslims as well and they fought against the Mughal-Rajput alliance as the colonial hold of the Mughal empire over Punjab became overpowering and finally turned into oppression.

Similarly the Marathas had large number of Muslim soldiers and the Navy consisted of mainly Pashtoon recruits. I could go on and on with such examples. In the Firs War of Independence under Bahadur Shah Zafar, his War cabinet consisted of Hindu Sikhs Muslims all planning and fighting together against the British

Islam came to India at the time of the prophet (SAW) when King Perumal of present day Kerala/Karanatka became the first Indian King to accept Islam in the company of the Prophet himself. Islam has been in the sub-continent for 1400+ years since.
*http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...-mosque-kerala-first-mosque-subcontinent.html*

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## Draft

EjazR said:


> .... became the first Indian King to accept Islam in the company of the Prophet himself.....



What does the statement "in the company of the Prophet himself" supposed to mean?


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## tibetan

aussie_1973 said:


> *Will Sikhs support and fight against India in case of all out war between India and Pakistan?*



sikks are indian and they will support india..........


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## biplob

Iqbal_Brar said:


> ...
> 
> Akali Dal (Badal) is a power hungry party, they don't represent Sikhs.. and the most funny thing is you're pointing out their alliance with BJP/RSS to me and you don't even know that Akali Dal (Badal) is the same party which also shakes hands with extremist Sikhs and has allowed the picture of the Bhindrawala to be hung in the main Sikh museum at Amritsar... they play both sides and people like you blindly fall into their trap.. lol.. go learn something about Punjab politics first before talking..



Okay, Akali Dal (Badal) who is currently in power doesn't represent Sikhs ...u alone(with an UN flag) do and knows everything about Sikhism .what an awful try.

What about Navjot singh Siddhu, a BJP MP from Punjab himself who was seen doing Yagnyas and taking names of Hindu god.He must be an apostate for u.



> Ohhh.... he is a "prominent Sikh" writer now.. LOL.. you can call him a "prominent writer".. that is it.. otherwise, his views go against the mainstream... he has described himself as not-religious.. and his views on Sikhism are hardly in line with the mainstream Sikh community and they tread the line as blasphemous


... .

Again here u go ,a renowned writer of many books and editor of several news papers like Khuswant singh know nothing about sikh religion .*His views on on Sikhism can hardly be in line with the mainstream as he praised the actions of RSS units who saved many Sikh life dUring Delhi riots of 84 *.I guess ur views must be main stream Sikhism to the sea of nirvana.



> Who is Tariq Ali? And why should we care? As for cow slaughter.. I don't know nor do I care.. all I know is that all animals are the same.. either you don't eat any.. or you eat them all..



No one asking about ur habits or persoanl preferences.
I was talking about Sikh traditions and practices.*Cow meat and cow slaughter was banned during sikh rules in predominantly muslim areas*.

Dont know *Tariq Ali*??
How about reading something else beside Khalistani literature.



> Worse lay ahead, however. In 1819 the soldiers of Ranjit Singh, the charismatic leader of the Sikhs, already triumphant in northern India, took Srinagar. There was no resistance worth the name. Kashmiri historians regard the 27 years of Sikh rule that followed as the worst calamity ever to befall their country.* The principal mosque in Srinagar was closed, others were made the property of the state, cow-slaughter was prohibited and, once again, the tax burden became insufferable &#8211; unlike the Mughals, Ranjit Singh taxed the poor*. Mass impoverishment led to mass emigration. Kashmiris fled to the cities of the Punjab: Amritsar, Lahore and Rawalpindi became the new centres of Kashmiri life and culture. (One of the many positive effects of this influx was that Kashmiri cooks much improved the local food.)


http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n08/tariq-ali/bitter-chill-of-winter


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## biplob

EjazR said:


> There is this some weird and bigoted notion among people that there were "religious wars" going on when in fact most of the time it was geo-political wars between different alliances. A mentality still kept from the time of the colonial British who inculcated this.


No thats not exactly true.
Both religious wars and political were going on simultaneously.sometime political wars fought with religious facade.Even the most liberal Mogul ruler Akbar fought Hindu King Hemu on Jihad plank .The Second panipat war had become a holy war Akbar and troops against Hindu Hemu .Later on ,though Akbar tried to be more liberal for the political compulsions and it payed him great dividend. 



> Someone quoted about Sikh rulers banning cow slaughter, but what about the large number of Mughal and other Muslim rulers who did the same (including surprise surprise Aurangzeb as well) to respect Brahmins and Jains under their rule.



We areno talking about liberal gestures shown by Mogul kings granted in Hindu dominated areas.We are talking about state practices and law of the land at that time.

Ranjit singhji had banned cow slaughter in Muslim dominated areas during his time as the ruler of Punjab as part of state law in accordance with his sikh religion.



> India, took Srinagar. There was no resistance worth the name. Kashmiri historians regard the 27 years of Sikh rule that followed as the worst calamity ever to befall their country. The principal mosque in Srinagar was closed, others were made the property of the state, *cow-slaughter was prohibited *and, once again, the tax burden became insufferable  unlike the Mughals, Ranjit Singh taxed the poor. Mass impoverishment led to mass emigration. Kashmiris fled to the cities of the Punjab: Amritsar, Lahore and Rawalpindi became the new centres of Kashmiri life and culture. (One of the many positive effects of this influx was that Kashmiri cooks much improved the local food.)


LRB · Tariq Ali · Bitter Chill of Winter



> It wasn't just "sikhs" fighting "muslims" to save "hindus". The reality was that the Mughals were allied to the Rajputs in almost all their battles. The Sikh armies included large contingent of Punjabi muslims as well and they fought against the Mughal-Rajput alliance as the colonial hold of the Mughal empire over Punjab became overpowering and finally turned into oppression.
> 
> Similarly the Marathas had large number of Muslim soldiers and the Navy consisted of mainly Pashtoon recruits. I could go on and on with such examples. In the Firs War of Independence under Bahadur Shah Zafar, his War cabinet consisted of Hindu Sikhs Muslims all planning and fighting together against the British


Again u are going into white washing thats hallmarks of communist historians of india ,but never part of folklore of those regions or hardly measured up against common sense and solid historical evidences.

We are talking about rulers here and their statecraft and laws go ,not some minority supporters from other religions who lend their services in exchange of land grants and money.

The Sikh armies tied up and fought as part of British army during the 1857 Sepoy revolution.
so does that make them look against a national cause??
No,they were just doing their duty as the servants of British east Indian army. 



> Islam came to India at the time of the prophet (SAW) when King Perumal of present day Kerala/Karanatka became the first Indian King to accept Islam in the company of the Prophet himself. Islam has been in the sub-continent for 1400+ years since


well another designer whitewash attempt.
Islam didn't spread when a lone king in kerela become Muslim at the at the of the prophet.But when Arab general conquered sindh.Muslim rules stated conquering and ruling different part of India in later centuries.
*Syrian Christianity came to Kerala even before the the prophet Mahmoud was born ,but it cant spread to nearby Goa until it came under Portuguese rule.*

Lets change history according our own conveniences and keep in comfort zones by manipulating it.


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## EjazR

Draft said:


> What does the statement "in the company of the Prophet himself" supposed to mean?



In Islam anyone who accepted Islam in the company of the Prophet has a special position also known as "Sahabi" OR "Companion"

King Perumal falls in this category.


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## manish123

Sikhs, Jains, indian buddhists, hindus will fight for India since it is their motherland.Period.Pls close this thread.Its pure flamebait.


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## su-47

manish123 said:


> Sikhs, Jains, indian buddhists, hindus will fight for India since it is their motherland.Period.Pls close this thread.Its pure flamebait.



as will Indian christians,muslims and atheists. Please don't forget them!


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## EjazR

*@biplob*
It seems that anything that doesn't seem to fit in your pre-conceved notion of "religious warfare" theory is inccoreect or some communist propaganda.

I suggest you read up on Upinder Singh's excellent book
'A History of Ancient and Early Medieval India from Stone Age to the 12th Century&#8217;
Incidentally she is MMS daughter and it shows that between short periods of violent invasions greek, mongols turks or arabs or persians - regardless of faith, there were large periods of peace and innovative developments and flowering of cultures. 

I give you examples of how muslim rulers had banned cow slaughter to respect sentiments of their subjects, but that is not enough for you. Did you know that even now, the ulema from for example Dar-ul-uloom Deoband issue advisory that sacrificing of Cows should be avoided to prevent hurting the sentiments of Brahmins and other hindus? Please note that Dalits and Tribals and many south Indian Hindus are beef eaters. And infact in Nepal Hindus sacrifice upwards of 200,000+ animals most recently in 2009.

According to Quranic teachings you can't convert a person by force, this is not accepted. And you can't destroy places of worship either. But that doesn't mean that no Muslim ruler has ever done that, they have and they should be condemned. It only means that they were not following Islam properly. However, there is this unsavory practice of exaggerating and coloring everything in religious terms. This is not any different from what some Muslims do as well so I am quite familiar with this.

And Islam didn't spread even after Sindh came under muslim ruler. It was because of the preaching of sufis, their counterpart was the Bhakti movement among Hindus. Coincidentally, these sufis were also very critical of the Muslim rulers as well for not being frugal and leading pompous lives while the poor suffer.
Even until the late 1880s, Punjab was barely 50&#37; muslim and Sindh less than 75% muslim.

It is time to understand that building up religious or ethnic nationalism will not make a nation, history has prove this to us. It has to be composite nationalism. Infact, even if someone migrates to India from the US or Europe for example and passes all the requirements to be an Indian citizen. Then he has all rights to call himself Indian. This was the reason why the US has been successful, where immigrants from all walks of lives are given equal opportunity and have contribute to its growth. This has what India has done for the pat 1000s of years and this is what we should continue to uphold.

India is probably the only country in the world where all ethnic groups and religious groups are found in such large numbers. Infact, India is minor Asia as Iqbal once said. The power in the idea of India is whether the entire world can continue to co-exist as it becomes a smaller place. Lets show them how its done.

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## Prometheus

Iqbal_Brar said:


> That is Simranjit Singh Mann.. he was a very high ranking police officer and commander of the Punjab Armed Police (the specialized branch of Punjab Police) in the 1980s... when Operation Blue Star happened he resigned from his position and joined the seperatists.. and ended up spending several years in Jail.. now he is the leader of the Akali Dal (Amritsar) party....
> 
> As for the Anand Karj Act, than yes, everybody applauds Pakistan for bringing that law into power in their country... because in India Sikhs have been fighting to have Anand Karj Act passed for over 60 years and Indian government is denying that right to Sikhs.. until today the government defines Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains as "Hindus" and puts them under Hindu act.. article 25b of constitution.. Sikhs have been fighting to get that change and even went to supreme court.. despite supreme court agreeing with Sikhs that article 25b discriminates against them.. Indian government still didn't change... and Sikhs of Pakistan now enjoy that law where Sikhs of India are still fighting for it....




Is he the same person who always lose elections and even cant save his security????
I even heard that non of his party man won


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## RobbieS

Biplob dude, you need to stop following that Saffron colored history book of yours.


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## biplob

@ EzazR,

If i start discussing islamic history of India in detail then many ppl'll feel hurt.I wont get into that.

Beside that i must say ,u can print as many books u want ,they cant change things that happened in history that remain itched in ppl's memory.

*As they are part of folklores , legends and ballads for generations in Rajastan and else where e,g of self immolation of Rani Padmini, storie of sacrifices of Sikhs Guru in Punjab and they also in the broken down Hindus temples and a mosque standing next the temple at each of its holy sites around rest of india . No amount of left wing manipulation can put an end them.*

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## manish123

biplob said:


> @ EzazR,
> 
> If i start discussing islamic history of India in detail then many ppl'll feel hurt



as well sure to get deleted or banned here.

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## Iqbal_Brar

biplob said:


> What about Navjot singh Siddhu, a BJP MP from Punjab himself who was seen doing Yagnyas and taking names of Hindu god.He must be an apostate for u.



Yehh.. that is why he part of BJP not Akalis.. also, he is facing murder trial and being MP of BJP keeps him out of jail..



> Again here u go ,a renowned writer of many books and editor of several news papers like Khuswant singh know nothing about sikh religion .*His views on on Sikhism can hardly be in line with the mainstream as he praised the actions of RSS units who saved many Sikh life dUring Delhi riots of 84 *.I guess ur views must be main stream Sikhism to the sea of nirvana.



Khushwant Singh CALLS HIMSELF A NON-BELIEVER.. HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN IN SIKH RELIGION... get that through your brainn... SECONDLY, THIS is his WHOLE views on RSS:



> J.S.T.: What do you think of R.S.S. chief Sudershan's statements, which Sikhs find highly offensive?
> 
> *K.S.: R.S.S. is a communal organization and dangerous to the country's secular fabric. Look what they did to Muslims in Gujrat. However, they take a different approach with the Sikhs. During the 1984 Sikh pogrom, they did save many Sikh lives. R.S.S. volunteers participated during the tercentenary celebrations of the Khalsa in 1999. They consider the Khalsa to be a military wing of Hinduism and their savior.*
> The Sikh Times - Biographies - Khushwant Singh



And THAT is what SGPC and Sikhs as a whole OPPOSES.. that Sikhs are military wing of Hinduism.. it is only RSS monkeys which want to paint it that way so they can misuse Sikh religion for their own selfish deeds..



> No one asking about ur habits or persoanl preferences.
> I was talking about Sikh traditions and practices.*Cow meat and cow slaughter was banned during sikh rules in predominantly muslim areas*.



First of all, I think its been posted before that even Mughals for some time banned cow slaughter in order not to offend Hindus.. and secondly... those are not my personal beliefs they are beliefs of SIKHS as a whole... we don't believe cow is sacred.. you will not find single quote from Adi Granth stating anything about not eating cows... this is what Nanak said..



> First Mehl:
> Punjabi: &#2602;&#2622;&#2562;&#2593;&#2631; &#2596;&#2626; &#2588;&#2622;&#2595;&#2632; &#2617;&#2624; &#2600;&#2622;&#2617;&#2624; &#2581;&#2623;&#2597;&#2617;&#2625; &#2606;&#2622;&#2616;&#2625; &#2569;&#2602;&#2672;&#2600;&#2622; &#2405; &#2596;&#2635;&#2567;&#2565;&#2617;&#2625; &#2565;&#2672;&#2600;&#2625; &#2581;&#2606;&#2622;&#2598;&#2625; &#2581;&#2602;&#2622;&#2617;&#2622;&#2562; &#2596;&#2635;&#2567;&#2565;&#2617;&#2625; &#2596;&#2637;&#2608;&#2623;&#2605;&#2613;&#2595;&#2625; &#2583;&#2672;&#2600;&#2622; &#2405;
> O Pandit, you do not know where did flesh originate! It is water where life originated and it is water that sustains all life. It is water that produces grains, sugarcane, cotton and all forms of life.
> AGGS, M 1, p 1290.
> 
> First Mehl:
> The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
> What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
> It was the habit to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
> Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
> They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
> O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
> They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
> They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.



That is all related to consuming meat.. and I don't see anywhere where it says that Sikhs should not eat cows.. according to the different Sikh views.. either Sikhs don't eat ANY meat.. or they eat EVERY meat.. there is no restriction that you can't eat this or that animal..




> Dont know *Tariq Ali*??
> How about reading something else beside Khalistani literature.
> 
> LRB · Tariq Ali · Bitter Chill of Winter



If I got this far reading Khalistani literature than by god it still trumps your RSS literature by miles.. because atleast I don't comment about your religion but you go around commenting about other people's religion... but i guess that is habit of RSS they can't sit peacefully until they create problems with every community...


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## Prometheus

as far my knowlegde sikhs can eat any type of meat..........it can be beef or pork


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## biplob

Iqbal_Brar said:


> Originally Posted by biplob :
> 
> What about Navjot singh Siddhu, a BJP MP from Punjab himself who was seen doing Yagnyas and taking names of Hindu god.He must be an apostate for u.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yehh.. that is why he part of BJP not Akalis.. also, he is facing murder trial and being MP of BJP keeps him out of jail..*
Click to expand...



This one sentence would make it clear to everyone how biased ,prejudiced,inaccurate and motivated ur views are...

U are so prejudices to cast aspersions on Siddhu that he is with BJP as that party helps with his court cases.

If that was reason then he would've been far more safe ,had joined Congress and got busying courting Sonia gandhi , along Momohan Singh .


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## Iqbal_Brar

biplob said:


> This one sentence would make it clear to everyone how biased ,prejudiced,inaccurate and motivated ur views are...
> 
> U are so prejudices to cast aspersions on Siddhu that he is with BJP as that party helps with his court cases.
> 
> If that was reason then he would've been far more safe ,had joined Congress and got busying courting Sonia gandhi , along Momohan Singh .



He's a BJP mascot.. what good will he be to Congress? BJP needs sardar mascots like Sidhu... because in Punjab they are painted as a Hindu Bahman party.. as opposed to whole Congress in Punjab which is already being run by Sardars top to bottom..


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## Mirza Jatt

man this thread still going on????

My last words on this thread (cuz I know no will agree with anyone in this thread and will never come to a conclusion)

@Hindus and muslims - Sikhism is sikhism.Its not hinduism/islam or a part of it.its a different religion altogether with its own principles and way of living and practicing the religion.It is a different religion with its own identity and nothing to do with Hinduism or any other religion.So please stop showcasing it as a part of hinduism/islam.Both hinduism and islam have had some influence on the preaching of the gurus.there are many refernce of hindu gods and godess in the preaching and also it is equally influnced by people who were muslim,but in no ways its is similar to hinduism or islam.

As far as the support of sikhs between India and Pakistan is concerned - then it is not so complex to understand.*Sikh of india will support India *and the sikh of Pakistan will support Pakistan.No one can question their patriotism.

**the highlighted sentence might be not acceptable to some people with extremist mindset,whom you will find them in every country,but fortunately never successful,you can find few in this thread itself.

Regards.

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## asq

A.R. said:


> @asq
> why dont you do your homework before posting these silly posts??



U.R. telling me that what I put up is not true about sikh beliefs, if u do than enlighten me, but do not refute the basic beliefs of siks that I put up.

One may exapnd on them, but these are the basic beliefs and are much more closer to Islam than Hinduism.

Not to mention the beard, the turban and the daggar.


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## peacemaker10

Who will Balochi and Sindhi Support in case of war with Pakistan? 

or should I say will India support Balochi and Sindhi with their war with Pakistan?


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## JonAsad

peacemaker10 said:


> Who will Balochi and Sindhi Support in case of war with Pakistan?
> 
> or should I say will India support Balochi and Sindhi with their war with Pakistan?



Even if you wanted to u cant in a War... Supporting them will give you more trouble than you think. In a War they will be Pakistani fighting for their country...

I dont think you can handle them ny way... 

btw i think ULFA, MULTA, NDFB, ATTF, ADF, NNC, Naxalites-Maoists and Khalistan are enough for you to handle in ur own country 

Separatist movements of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Pakistani Man

peacemaker10 said:


> Who will Balochi and Sindhi Support in case of war with Pakistan?
> 
> or should I say will India support Balochi and Sindhi with their war with Pakistan?



lol. You really think we want to be under the control of the Hindu Republic of India. 

Good laughs on this forum.

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## Areesh

peacemaker10 said:


> Who will Balochi and Sindhi Support in case of war with Pakistan?
> 
> or should I say will India support Balochi and Sindhi with their war with Pakistan?



You don't need to worry about Sindhis dear. I live in Karachi and I know they will be ready to fight for their motherland.



jonasad said:


> Even if you wanted to u cant in a War... Supporting them will give you more trouble than you think. In a War they will be Pakistani fighting for their country...
> 
> I dont think you can handle them ny way...
> 
> btw i think ULFA, MULTA, NDFB, ATTF, ADF and NNC are enough for you to handle in ur own country
> 
> Separatist movements of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Include Maoists please.

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## JonAsad

Areesh said:


> You don't need to worry about Sindhis dear. I live in Karachi and I know they will be ready to fight for their motherland.
> 
> 
> 
> Include Maoists please.



thnx 4 reminding me there are so much separist movements in India i forgot Maoists 
Yeah Khalistan Movement is still alive aswell


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## gowthamraj

jonasad said:


> Even if you wanted to u cant in a War... Supporting them will give you more trouble than you think. In a War they will be Pakistani fighting for their country...
> 
> I dont think you can handle them ny way...
> 
> btw i think ULFA, MULTA, NDFB, ATTF, ADF, NNC, Naxalites-Maoists and Khalistan are enough for you to handle in ur own country
> 
> Separatist movements of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


oh where the ULFA and MLFA gone nowadays? hell?. .between dont bring maoists without knowing who are those, regarding khalisthan, its all ended one, no sikhs who live in India thinking about it


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## jagjitnatt

jonasad said:


> thnx 4 reminding me there are so much separist movements in India i forgot Maoists
> Yeah Khalistan Movement is still alive aswell



Khalistan movement is dead. I am a Punjabi and know that personally. Punjab is the richest state in the country now.

Mods need to close this stupid thread.

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## JonAsad

jagjitnatt said:


> Khalistan movement is dead. I am a Punjabi and know that personally. Punjab is the richest state in the country now.
> 
> Mods need to close this stupid thread.



btw way i my father is punjabi and i my mother is sindhi... i know better about Sindh. They are definately patriots, no way in hell they gona support India.

Yeah this thread needs to be closed.


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## JonAsad

gowthamraj said:


> oh where the ULFA and MLFA gone nowadays? hell?. .between dont bring maoists without knowing who are those, regarding khalisthan, its all ended one, no sikhs who live in India thinking about it



maybe they are gone... but for this stupid thread sake tit for tat will not let them go. They are still active


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