# Bell will Deliver Three(3) AH-Z in 2017 Remaining 9 in 2018 :Alan Warner



## monitor

Bell today said that three AH-1Zs would be delivered to the Pakistan Army Aviation in 2017. The remaining nine will arrive in 2018.

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## Hassan Guy

link?


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## YeBeWarned

bhai source post kerde warna @The Eagle aa jaye ga 

On Topic this is awesome News,4 Mi-35M will be coming soon,

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## monitor

Hassan Guy said:


> link?


*Alan Warnes* ‏@*warnesyworld* 35m35 minutes ago
Bell today said that three AH-1Zs would be delivered to the Pakistan Army Aviation in 2017. The remaining nine will arrive in 2018.

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## The Eagle

Starlord said:


> bhai source post kerde warna @The Eagle aa jaye ga
> 
> On Topic this is awesome News,4 Mi-35M will be coming soon,





@monitor it would be better to post source of your news to maintain the quality and interest of discussion. 

For the time being,


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/833731059623800834

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## YeBeWarned

The Eagle said:


> @monitor it would be better to post source of your news to maintain the quality and interest of discussion.
> 
> For the time being,
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/833731059623800834



Thanks for Posting the Source Eagle , hopefully you didn't mind my previous post

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## Imran Khan

from USA ? i will not believe until they land in pakistan

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## I S I

Beasts are coming in to roast some Afghani tikkas.

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## monitor

The Eagle said:


> @monitor it would be better to post source of your news to maintain the quality and interest of discussion.
> 
> For the time being,
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/833731059623800834





The Eagle said:


> @monitor it would be better to post source of your news to maintain the quality and interest of discussion.
> 
> For the time being,
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/833731059623800834


Link diatha lekin chala gia. 


Anyway two news type of beast adding to the Pakistan army.



Imran Khan said:


> from USA ? i will not believe until they land in pakistan




Believe it or not it's coming.

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## I S I

Imran Khan said:


> from USA ? i will not believe until they land in pakistan


You'll believe it when they land in your garden?

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## Imran Khan

I S I said:


> You'll believe it when they land in your garden?


i have 10 marla house janab tell them to land in park i can see

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## YeBeWarned

Imran Khan said:


> from USA ? i will not believe until they land in pakistan



Imran bhai thoda trust karo yaar 
Kyun ke Amerika Reliable hai

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## I S I

Imran Khan said:


> i have 10 marla house janab tell them to land in park i can see



I'll tell them to land on your terrace.

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## cloud4000

Imran Khan said:


> from USA ? i will not believe until they land in pakistan



Sir, Pakistan paid for these birds directly. They will get the helicopters and the Hellfire missiles that come with them. 

The question remains if Pakistan wants to pursue more of them given how both the T-129 and WZ-10 are now in the picture.


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## Skyliner

The Eagle said:


> @monitor it would be better to post source of your news to maintain the quality and interest of discussion.
> 
> For the time being,
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/833731059623800834


Sir is their any delay in the delivery program. Isn't according to initial report all of these helie's were to be delivered in 2017!


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## YeBeWarned

cloud4000 said:


> Sir, Pakistan paid for these birds directly. They will get the helicopters and the Hellfire missiles that come with them.
> 
> The question remains if Pakistan wants to pursue more of them given how both the T-129 and WZ-10 are now in the picture.



I think PA will postpone the decision about T-129 or Z-10's .. If news circulating about extra 4 mi-35's is true than i guess by next year we will have 15 Ah-Z1's and 8 Mil-35's .. we can wait till 2018 to decide which one we want to add up ..

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## The Eagle

Skyliner said:


> Sir is their any delay in the delivery program. Isn't according to initial report all of these helie's were to be delivered in 2017!



As reported, 3 this year and the rest by next. 

It was reported as 

_The contract awarded "for the manufacture and delivery of nine AH-1Z aircraft and nine auxiliary fuel kits for the government of Pakistan" is "*expected to be completed in September 2018*"._

So looks fine and on time.

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## SQ8

The AH-1zs will arrive as they directly replace the Cobras with a lesser training regimen than any other chopper

The PA is greately expanding its heli force based on the European model used for repulsing attacks in a similar combat scenario

Essentially, rapidly moving forces get stalled and harassed in rapid forming and disseminating rear guard actions until a counter attack pincer com s in

The cold start is being turned on itself in a rather ironic way since this lesson was learnt from Indian plans itself

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## Stephen Cohen

Oscar said:


> The cold start is being turned on itself in a rather ironic way since this lesson was learnt from Indian plans itself



All the various exercises that we have been doing in the recent Few years
have been Joint exercises between IAF and IA
For enhancing Jointsmanship and validating 
Integrated Theatre Battle Concepts

The IAF has been specifically tasked to keep away Enemy planes and helicopters
away from Our Strike Corps and IBGs

Obviously sending an Army in without Air cover is an open invitation to disaster


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## SQ8

Stephen Cohen said:


> All the various exercises that we have been doing in the recent Few years
> have been Joint exercises between IAF and IA
> For enhancing Jointsmanship and validating
> Integrated Theatre Battle Concepts
> 
> The IAF has been specifically tasked to keep away Enemy planes and helicopters
> away from Our Strike Corps and IBGs
> 
> Obviously sending an Army in without Air cover is an open invitation to disaster


Yes
Thank you for stating the obvious

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## Suff Shikan

I S I said:


> Beasts are coming in to roast some Afghani tikkas.


Last two pics are not AH-1Z Viper, they are _Bell AH-1 SuperCobra_

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## SecretMission

If I am not wrong Pakistan Purchased 15 Vipers with hell fires so how they reduced to 12?


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## Windjammer

*Pakistan orders nine more Bell AH-1Z gunships*




05 APRIL, 2016

SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM

BY: JAMES DREW

WASHINGTON DC


Bell Helicopter has been put on contract to build nine more AH-1Z Viper gunship helicopters for Pakistan, as part of a larger foreign military sales package for up to 15 helicopters and 1,000 Lockheed Martin AGM-114 Hellfire-series missiles that was approved last April.

Islamabad ordered its first batch of armed, twin-engine “Zulu Cobras” under that deal in August, as part of a larger US Marine Corps order for 19 AH-1Zs. It furnished an undisclosed number of AH-1Zs powered by GE Aviation T700-401C powerplants for $58 million, likely three.

Bell’s latest $170 million contract modification via US Naval Air Systems Command, announced on 4 April, buys nine more aircraft for Pakistan. That raises Pakistan’s AH-1Z programme value to $228 million.

All aircraft, including those ordered in August, will be delivered by August 2018, those respective contract announcements state.

Pakistan is the first international customer for the AH-1Z type, which the Marine Corps is buying as part of its H-1 upgrade programme to replace the AH-1W Super Cobra by 2020.

The marines ordered their 13th batch of H-1 derivatives, the 85% common, four-bladed Viper and UH-1Y Venom, in March.

Those two aircraft are delivered from Bell’s final assembly and checkout facility in Amarillo, Texas, and are being marketed around the world by Bell to keep assembly humming beyond 2020.

AH-1Zs carry a turret-mounted M197 20mm cannon and are equipped with four wing stations for anti-armour Hellfire missiles, AIM-9 Sidewinders or 70mm and 127mm rockets, the navy says.

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## Muhammad Omar

Windjammer said:


> *Pakistan orders nine more Bell AH-1Z gunships*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05 APRIL, 2016
> 
> SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM
> 
> BY: JAMES DREW
> 
> WASHINGTON DC
> 
> Bell Helicopter has been put on contract to build nine more AH-1Z Viper gunship helicopters for Pakistan, as part of a larger foreign military sales package for up to 15 helicopters and 1,000 Lockheed Martin AGM-114 Hellfire-series missiles that was approved last April.
> 
> Islamabad ordered its first batch of armed, twin-engine “Zulu Cobras” under that deal in August, as part of a larger US Marine Corps order for 19 AH-1Zs. It furnished an undisclosed number of AH-1Zs powered by GE Aviation T700-401C powerplants for $58 million, likely three.
> 
> Bell’s latest $170 million contract modification via US Naval Air Systems Command, announced on 4 April, buys nine more aircraft for Pakistan. That raises Pakistan’s AH-1Z programme value to $228 million.
> 
> All aircraft, including those ordered in August, will be delivered by August 2018, those respective contract announcements state.
> 
> Pakistan is the first international customer for the AH-1Z type, which the Marine Corps is buying as part of its H-1 upgrade programme to replace the AH-1W Super Cobra by 2020.
> 
> The marines ordered their 13th batch of H-1 derivatives, the 85% common, four-bladed Viper and UH-1Y Venom, in March.
> 
> Those two aircraft are delivered from Bell’s final assembly and checkout facility in Amarillo, Texas, and are being marketed around the world by Bell to keep assembly humming beyond 2020.
> 
> AH-1Zs carry a turret-mounted M197 20mm cannon and are equipped with four wing stations for anti-armour Hellfire missiles, AIM-9 Sidewinders or 70mm and 127mm rockets, the navy says.



Does that makes 15+9?? 

or 9 included in 15??


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## Windjammer

Muhammad Omar said:


> Does that makes 15+9??
> 
> or 9 included in 15??


I think 15 in total....

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## Jinn Baba

Windjammer said:


> *Pakistan orders nine more Bell AH-1Z gunships*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05 APRIL, 2016
> 
> SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM
> 
> BY: JAMES DREW
> 
> WASHINGTON DC
> Bell Helicopter has been put on contract to build nine more AH-1Z Viper gunship helicopters for Pakistan, as part of a larger foreign military sales package for up to 15 helicopters and 1,000 Lockheed Martin AGM-114 Hellfire-series missiles that was approved last April.
> 
> Islamabad ordered its first batch of armed, twin-engine “Zulu Cobras” under that deal in August, as part of a larger US Marine Corps order for 19 AH-1Zs. It furnished an undisclosed number of AH-1Zs powered by GE Aviation T700-401C powerplants for $58 million, likely three.
> 
> Bell’s latest $170 million contract modification via US Naval Air Systems Command, announced on 4 April, buys nine more aircraft for Pakistan. That raises Pakistan’s AH-1Z programme value to $228 million.
> 
> All aircraft, including those ordered in August, will be delivered by August 2018, those respective contract announcements state.
> 
> Pakistan is the first international customer for the AH-1Z type, which the Marine Corps is buying as part of its H-1 upgrade programme to replace the AH-1W Super Cobra by 2020.
> 
> The marines ordered their 13th batch of H-1 derivatives, the 85% common, four-bladed Viper and UH-1Y Venom, in March.
> 
> Those two aircraft are delivered from Bell’s final assembly and checkout facility in Amarillo, Texas, and are being marketed around the world by Bell to keep assembly humming beyond 2020.
> 
> AH-1Zs carry a turret-mounted M197 20mm cannon and are equipped with four wing stations for anti-armour Hellfire missiles, AIM-9 Sidewinders or 70mm and 127mm rockets, the navy says.



So we are getting 3+9 (12) now with option for 3 more (total 15)?

Also, the $$$ don't add up, a thousand Hellfires would themselves cost in excess of $100 million, so how are we getting 12 Zulus and 1000 Hellfire missiles for $228 million  or were the Hellfire missiles not ordered?


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## TOPGUN

Outstanding news can't wait for them to come home !!


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## Rajput Warrior

cloud4000 said:


> Sir, Pakistan paid for these birds directly. They will get the helicopters and the Hellfire missiles that come with them.
> 
> The question remains if Pakistan wants to pursue more of them given how both the T-129 and WZ-10 are now in the picture.


55-60 gunships to replace.

These cobras and hellfires cost 1.2+ billion.

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## Jinn Baba

Finally used the search function here 
Originally posted by nadeemkhan (thread: https://defence.pk/threads/lockheed-martin-awarded-tss-contract-for-pakistani-ah-1z.469144/ )





The USMC AH-1Z Viper. Photo credit: Bell Helicopters
*LOCKHEED MARTIN AWARDED TSS CONTRACT FOR PAKISTANI AH-1Z*
ShareTweet

The U.S. Department of Defence (DoD) has awarded a contract to Lockheed Martin to supply its AN/AAQ-30 Target Sight Systems (TSS) for Pakistan’s Bell AH-1Z Viper dedicated attack helicopters.

The contract awarded as part of a larger sale – valued USD $151 million – for TSS units for both U.S. and Pakistani AH-1Zs. The Pakistani order (made under the Foreign Military Sales program) constitutes 12% of the contract (i.e. USD $18.12 million).

The AN/AAQ-30 TSS is essentially an electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) sensor capable of nighttime imaging and laser-designation (for air-to-surface missiles such as the AGM-114R Hellfire II).

This is the second Pakistani TSS contract, the first being issued in January (for USD $14.2 million).

*Notes & Comments:*

In April 2015, the U.S. approved a proposed sale of 15 Bell Helicopters AH-1Z Viper attack helicopters to Pakistan. The USD $952 million deal included the aircraft, 1,000 AGM-114R Hellfire II air-to-surface laser-guided missiles, and requisite training, logistics, and maintenance support.

In August 2015 and April 2016, Pakistan ordered two and nine AH-1Z units, respectively. The TSS orders from January and December of this year correspond with those unit orders. As there were no options listed in the State Department notice, one should expect Pakistan to order the final four units.

In parallel with the AH-1Z program, the Pakistan Army will also induct four Mi-35 Hind assault helicopters, which it ordered from Russia in 2015 for USD $153 million. IHS Jane’s was told by Pakistani officials that the Army could procure a total of up to 20 Mi-35s.

Pakistan is also flying the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG) Z-10. It had also evaluated the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) T-129. While the Pakistan Army is evidently seeking another dedicated attack helicopter platform, it is not clear how it intends to utilize a secondary platform.

The TAI T-129, while boasting superb hot-and-high flight attributes, is fundamentally a lightweight design. However, TAI, in collaboration with Meteksan, is testing the MİLDAR millimeter wave radar.

The CAIG Z-10 was recently spotted in a desert area in Punjab (i.e. Khairpur-Tamiwali near Bahawalpur), where it appeared to have been used as a close air support (CAS) platform for armour and infantry.

Pakistan was also reportedly interested in Mil Mi-28NE, which is among Russia’s newest attack helicopter platforms and, in contrast to the T-129 and Z-10, is a heavyweight design analogous to the AH-64.

Given the range of platforms it is examining, the Pakistan Army may simply be in the process of trying to determine which operational environments outside of counterinsurgency (COIN) require dedicated attack helicopters. Consequently, various platforms have been tested to their respective strengths, but a final decision is far from imminent.

Pakistan’s final decision will be shaped by how it intends to use its alternate attack helicopter platform. For example, a strong focus on anti-armour operations in Punjab and in Sindh would position a heavyweight platform such as the Mi-28NE (or Rooivalk Mk2) favourably. If unavailable, the Z-10 could be viewed as a medium-weight alternative for the same role. Alternatively, an emphasis on providing infantry in higher altitude mountainous areas would necessitate the T-129.

With the COIN effort set to continue, Pakistan’s attack helicopter fleet is poised to see heavy use in the coming years. With current AH-1F/S at the end of their lifespans, it would not be surprising if additional AH-1Zs are sought, especially under the Foreign Military Financing program, which is poised to resume (albeit with additional scrutiny in Washington).

Source: http://quwa.org/2016/12/26/lockheed-martin-awarded-tss-contract-for-pakistani-ah-1z/


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## ali_raza

we should order 15 more vipers


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

50 - Z-10 (Chinese GunShip) [On going purchase / enhancement]
50 - T-129 (Turkish Gunship platform) [On going purchase / enhancement]
50 - Mi-35 (Russian Armored GunShip) [On going purchase / enhancement]
25 -50, Agosta Westland for SSG [On going purchase / enhancement]

Sufficient long term goal to develop a strategic depth for Armed forces against Terrorism

Much easier to order and recieve necessary items 

The cobra Gunships do help with modernization effort of Pakistan's Aviation fleet. So certainly a welcomed addition

15-30 Cobra (Vipers) - Fill Gap Specialist Units

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## Trango Towers

Starlord said:


> Imran bhai thoda trust karo yaar
> Kyun ke Amerika Reliable hai


About as reliable as my afghani neighbour


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## nomi007

*Bell ready to deliver AH-1Z to Pakistan, optimistic of getting second export order*

The business development manager for Bell Helicopter’s global military business told Jane’s that Pakistan will take delivery of three AH-1Zs this summer.




Photo by Lance Cpl. Andy Martinez

The country had ordered 12 rotorcraft and the rest is expected to be in the country next year.

Nate Green added that his company is looking forward to clinching a second H-1 helicopter export contract within two months.

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## nomi007

http://alert5.com/2017/04/07/bell-r...an-optimistic-of-getting-second-export-order/


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## Kompromat

I think we might buy around 30 in total.

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## Hassan Guy

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/10-d...ms-pakistan-should-pursue-but-it-isnt.487640/

When Pakistan decides to buy arms from the US again

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## razgriz19

Horus said:


> I think we might buy around 30 in total.


I hope we do. We need to maintain mi35 and cobra fleet. Atak or z10 do not bring anything new to the table.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Horus said:


> I think we might buy around 30 in total.


I think so as well. It would be interesting if they scale the AH-1Z's GE T700 turboshaft infrastructure to include other helicopters powered by the same engine, e.g. S-70, AW101, NH-90, etc.

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## Zarvan

Horus said:


> I think we might buy around 30 in total.


Well let's hope we buy 30 of these and at 70 to 90 of T-129 or which ever attack helicopter we use



Hassan Guy said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/10-d...ms-pakistan-should-pursue-but-it-isnt.487640/
> 
> When Pakistan decides to import arms from the US again


Sadly USA still has best weapons on face of the earth

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## Pak_Sher

AH-1Z will be a better option for Pakistan. US technology is superior and battle hardened.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

T-129/ Z-10 is the way forward this cobra/python/ caterpiller is all steps backward the quantity is not sufficient for any reasonable operation or Military improvement

Not really greatly excited

Need local production seek cooperation with Turkey or South Africa or China start moving away from US items , nothing special if the helicopter can carry 2-3 more missile load then other helicopter we need a depandable nation to work with

If Chinese copter can do 280km.hr and this Cobra Shobra does 300 km /hr give me Chinese helicopter armed with plenty of Missiles






Z-10 / T-129 is sufficient for need if we were in business of racing helicopters in a aireal race yeah the Zulu would be interesting bird

Get 100 *Z-100* AND 50 *T-129* , what we need from defensive prespective and get off the American weapon drug



razgriz19 said:


> I hope we do. We need to maintain mi35 and cobra fleet. Atak or z10 do not bring anything new to the table.



Rather have *150 Z-10 *and *50 T-129* and 20-30 Anti aircraft Weapons then few handful of 3 Cobra Zulu or what ever crap its called, quite idiotic to wait 6-7 years for delivery of 3 helicopter from USA

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## Thorough Pro

You just did again what I just referred to in another thread. We bought 12 dedicated attack helos after 32 years of buying 20 AH-1S Cobras in 1984, and in single breath you want to buy 30 more of Zulu's + 90 T-129's?

Do you know the difference between Reality and what ever that world is where you live in?






Zarvan said:


> Well let's hope we buy 30 of these and at 70 to 90 of T-129 or which ever attack helicopter we use
> 
> 
> Sadly USA still has best weapons on face of the earth

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## mingle

Pak_Sher said:


> AH-1Z will be a better option for Pakistan. US technology is superior and battle hardened.


Yes but most battle hardened is Russian Mi 24/35 hinds .Russian stuff is best cheap easy to maintain not fancy but deadly plus its prettymuch at par with Americans tech wise .


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Just out of curiosity , I keep hearing the Apache has a radar (Long bow) , what other platforms have a similar solution ?

We normally never mention or discuss that aspect of the Choppers

Or which platform offers a better resistance to some of the emerging tech in hands of rouge elements or make shift enemies


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Just out of curiosity , I keep hearing the Apache has a radar (Long bow) , what other platforms have a similar solution ?
> 
> We normally never mention or discuss that aspect of the Choppers
> 
> Or which platform offers a better resistance to some of the emerging tech in hands of rouge elements or make shift enemies


Millimetric wave (mmW) radar. It is basically a type of synthetic aperture radar (SAR) for ground mapping and ground moving target indication (GMTI). You can use mmW radars to track and target tanks and armoured vehicles, and with a mmW-tipped missile (e.g. Brimstone), attack them. The Apache has the AN/APG-78, but there's a similar one based on the AN/APG-78 under development for the AH-1Z. Can't say if Pakistan would get it or not.

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## ziaulislam

Thorough Pro said:


> You just did again what I just referred to in another thread. We bought 12 dedicated attack helos after 32 years of buying 20 AH-1S Cobras in 1984, and in single breath you want to buy 30 more of Zulu's + 90 T-129's?
> 
> Do you know the difference between Reality and what ever that world is where you live in?


its indeed a great platform but pak army should pretend shortness of funds, as buying Zulu at this cost(as expensive than f-16s) completely negates that thought. and as with most us equipment shouldn't expect any offsets or ToT
i doubt commonalty is factor here Zulus and cobras are completely different


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

ziaulislam said:


> its indeed a great platform but pak army should pretend shortness of funds, as buying Zulu at this cost(as expensive than f-16s) completely negates that thought. and as with most us equipment shouldn't expect any offsets or ToT
> i doubt commonalty is factor here Zulus and cobras are completely different


The AH-1Z's cost is at-par with the attack helicopter market. In fact, the $40-45 million unit price includes the flyaway cost of the aircraft and the support package (the F-16 Block-52 costs $80 million all-in). I think the T-129 would actually cost more since it has less quantitative scale.


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## ziaulislam

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The AH-1Z's cost is at-par with the attack helicopter market. In fact, the $40-45 million unit price includes the flyaway cost of the aircraft and the support package (the F-16 Block-52 costs $80 million all-in). I think the T-129 would actually cost more since it has less quantitative scale.



i doubt Russian platforms cost this much
Chinese platforms will cost much less

here in the question lies how much useful attack helicopters will be backing infantry on eastern side if army lacks even basic PAF support

if the buy is for WOT(doubt by looking at items brought), than its ok, though i am not an expert, i believe cheaper platforms were available for that purpose


question is not whether this is useful or not, its simply a trend we are looking is that army is still getting everything it wants sacrificing the other branches and stretching them beyond minimum operational requirements

To me it seems army strategist are stuck in 80s and are not even considering cold start and IAF than again I am an amateur and i can be completely wrong but I dont understand how come Gunships are going to be useful when PAF will be taken out by overwhelming IAF


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

ziaulislam said:


> i doubt Russian platforms cost this much
> Chinese platforms will cost much less
> 
> here in the question lies how much useful attack helicopters will be backing infantry on eastern side if army lacks even basic PAF support
> 
> if the buy is for WOT(doubt by looking at items brought), than its ok, though i am not an expert, i believe cheaper platforms were available for that purpose
> 
> 
> question is not whether this is useful or not, its simply a trend we are looking is that army is still getting everything it wants sacrificing the other branches and stretching them beyond minimum operational requirements
> 
> To me it seems army strategist are stuck in 80s and are not even considering cold start and IAF than again I am an amateur and i can be completely wrong but I dont understand how come Gunships are going to be useful when PAF will be taken out by overwhelming IAF


There are other costs too. 

The AH-1Z is a rugged machine - great resistance to sand intrusion - powered by a widely available turboshaft engine, the latter providing competitive operating costs (and abundance of spare parts). The Z-10s are cheaper to buy, for sure, but the jury is out on whether these will match-up to the AH-1Z in down-time and availability. Same with the AH-1Z's self-protection suite. We'll find out soon once the PAA inducts these. The AH-1Z is also heavier (i.e. greater payload). 

As for the Russians, being reliant on only a single source for everything is a cost in of itself. Yes, the AH-1Z is American, but the engine is commercially common and benefits from a big spare parts channel.

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## My-Analogous

Starlord said:


> bhai source post kerde warna @The Eagle aa jaye ga
> 
> On Topic this is awesome News,4 Mi-35M will be coming soon,


Don't worry we have @Horus and he will handle @The Eagle 
Picture of Horus


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## tarrar

Pakistan should try to buy 12 more Zulus.


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## The Eagle

My-Analogous said:


> Don't worry we have @Horus and he will handle @The Eagle



And this was for?


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## My-Analogous

The Eagle said:


> And this was for?


Relax bro!, it was a joke and check eagle head on Horus


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## SQ8

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The AH-1Z's cost is at-par with the attack helicopter market. In fact, the $40-45 million unit price includes the flyaway cost of the aircraft and the support package (the F-16 Block-52 costs $80 million all-in). I think the T-129 would actually cost more since it has less quantitative scale.


Ideally, the PA should stick to more Zulus and one more platform.
The Z-10 had some kinks to iron out otherwise it should be fine.

The T-129 only makes sense if it comes in numbers greater than 40

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## HAIDER

Oscar said:


> Ideally, the PA should stick to more Zulus and one more platform.
> The Z-10 had some kinks to iron out otherwise it should be fine.
> 
> The T-129 only makes sense if it comes in numbers greater than 40


T129 still facing third party engine export license . As of last week, only 20 T129 delivered to Turkish armed forces. Instead of buying engine from US/UK for T129, its better to go for more direct US make. Politically , after political and regional turmoil, no one knows Turkish standing in NATO or arm trade with Western exporters.

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## Awan68

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> 50 - Z-10 (Chinese GunShip) [On going purchase / enhancement]
> 50 - T-129 (Turkish Gunship platform) [On going purchase / enhancement]
> 50 - Mi-35 (Russian Armored GunShip) [On going purchase / enhancement]
> 25 -50, Agosta Westland for SSG [On going purchase / enhancement]
> 
> Sufficient long term goal to develop a strategic depth for Armed forces against Terrorism
> 
> Much easier to order and recieve necessary items
> 
> The cobra Gunships do help with modernization effort of Pakistan's Aviation fleet. So certainly a welcomed addition
> 
> 15-30 Cobra (Vipers) - Fill Gap Specialist Units


Bhai qaroon ka khazana hath lag gya hai kya, kuch to khuda ka khauf karo



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> T-129/ Z-10 is the way forward this cobra/python/ caterpiller is all steps backward the quantity is not sufficient for any reasonable operation or Military improvement
> 
> Not really greatly excited
> 
> Need local production seek cooperation with Turkey or South Africa or China start moving away from US items , nothing special if the helicopter can carry 2-3 more missile load then other helicopter we need a depandable nation to work with
> 
> If Chinese copter can do 280km.hr and this Cobra Shobra does 300 km /hr give me Chinese helicopter armed with plenty of Missiles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z-10 / T-129 is sufficient for need if we were in business of racing helicopters in a aireal race yeah the Zulu would be interesting bird
> 
> Get 100 *Z-100* AND 50 *T-129* , what we need from defensive prespective and get off the American weapon drug
> 
> 
> 
> Rather have *150 Z-10 *and *50 T-129* and 20-30 Anti aircraft Weapons then few handful of 3 Cobra Zulu or what ever crap its called, quite idiotic to wait 6-7 years for delivery of 3 helicopter from USA





AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> T-129/ Z-10 is the way forward this cobra/python/ caterpiller is all steps backward the quantity is not sufficient for any reasonable operation or Military improvement
> 
> Not really greatly excited
> 
> Need local production seek cooperation with Turkey or South Africa or China start moving away from US items , nothing special if the helicopter can carry 2-3 more missile load then other helicopter we need a depandable nation to work with
> 
> If Chinese copter can do 280km.hr and this Cobra Shobra does 300 km /hr give me Chinese helicopter armed with plenty of Missiles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z-10 / T-129 is sufficient for need if we were in business of racing helicopters in a aireal race yeah the Zulu would be interesting bird
> 
> Get 100 *Z-100* AND 50 *T-129* , what we need from defensive prespective and get off the American weapon drug
> 
> 
> 
> Rather have *150 Z-10 *and *50 T-129* and 20-30 Anti aircraft Weapons then few handful of 3 Cobra Zulu or what ever crap its called, quite idiotic to wait 6-7 years for delivery of 3 helicopter from USA


Catterpillar
100 z10's
250 ataks
100 mi35s
500 j31s
250 j20s
30 destroyers
60 frigates
60 aip subs
20 nuclear subs
4 carriers with j 31s on board
Than maybe the next time we can launch cruise missles on syria

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## SQ8

HAIDER said:


> T129 still facing third party engine export license . As of last week, only 20 T129 delivered to Turkish armed forces. Instead of buying engine from US/UK for T129, its better to go for more direct US make. Politically , after political and regional turmoil, no one knows Turkish standing in NATO or arm trade with Western exporters.


If only the Turks could go for Safran as the engine


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## Arsalan

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> 50 - Z-10 (Chinese GunShip) [On going purchase / enhancement]
> 50 - T-129 (Turkish Gunship platform) [On going purchase / enhancement]
> 50 - Mi-35 (Russian Armored GunShip) [On going purchase / enhancement]
> 25 -50, Agosta Westland for SSG [On going purchase / enhancement]
> 
> Sufficient long term goal to develop a strategic depth for Armed forces against Terrorism
> 
> Much easier to order and recieve necessary items
> 
> The cobra Gunships do help with modernization effort of Pakistan's Aviation fleet. So certainly a welcomed addition
> 
> 15-30 Cobra (Vipers) - Fill Gap Specialist Units


and may be then you can change your profile name from AZADPAKISTAN to AMEERPAKISTAN!! (See how i deliberately skipped the part which mentions the year  )


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## Zarvan

Oscar said:


> Ideally, the PA should stick to more Zulus and one more platform.
> The Z-10 had some kinks to iron out otherwise it should be fine.
> 
> The T-129 only makes sense if it comes in numbers greater than 40


Sir although we have to replace 60 Cobras but now I think we may opt for lot more attack helicopters and Z-10 have been sent back so I doubt they should come and yes 60 T-129 should come or may be even few more. Also out of those 60 only 24 should be brought from Turkey others should be produced in Pakistan.

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## CHACHA"G"

Zarvan said:


> Sir although we have to replace 60 Cobras but now I think we may opt for lot more attack helicopters and Z-10 have been sent back so I doubt they should come and yes 60 T-129 should come or may be even few more. Also out of those 60 only 24 should be brought from Turkey others should be produced in Pakistan.


As I said PAA guy said me that the need is minimum 120 and that's the minimum , Now they want to cover whole Pakistan and COIN war , Pakistan may go for 3 reaming one this year (after receiving and checking 3 coming) and we may see one more order of 15 AH from USA.
And other platform may be Z-10(almost conform) because of its stealthiest and cheaper and available with TOT(most probably). We may see 50+ of them .
And reaming number , That could be any thing , may be T-129 or Russian or even SA . Even more order of AH from USA possible . Who knows!
In the end we need these attack birds and need them in number , But we also have time so lets see what come out of this.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Whats this ? 

Well its the helicopter tire they will send rest of the helicopter in 12 years


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Oscar said:


> If only the Turks could go for Safran as the engine


I still think the leading candidates are the Z-10 and T-129, but we won't see them as a factor for several years. With the AH-1Z the PAA is going to get to use a top-end platform for a long-term period, and I suspect they'll want that experience to inform them moving forward. Paper performance is one thing, but things such as turnaround times, sand intrusion, reliability, etc are also critical.

That said, we might have a dark horse candidate in the Denel Aviation Rooivalk Mk2. It's way out right now, but there are a few interesting factors: (1) Denel will use the same airframe and engine, just upgrade the avionics, weapons and dynamic components; (2) the Rooivalk Mk2 will retain its rotor parts *and* engine commonality with the Super Puma; (3) the Super Puma is among the most widely used platforms available, and among the cheapest to buy (with only the Mi-171 beating it).

Denel said it needs 60-75 units to make the Rooivalk Mk2 feasible, and a co-funding partner would receive ToT for MRO, assembly and parts manufacturing. Unlike the T-129 and Z-10, the Rooivalk is a heavy platform akin to the Apache - it can carry 16 ATGMs, so if you pair a millimetric wave radar, you'd have a solid, rugged and affordable platform to use along the plains and deserts. If you get the Super Puma for transport, you'd have a nice one-two punch with the same engine, transmission, rotors, etc.

Remember, we signed a defence MoU with South Africa recently, and while no commitments or promises were made, it did direct Denel Aviation and Denel Land Systems to communicate with PAC and HIT, respectively. I think there's a fair chance the Rooivalk Mk2 will reach a table or two soon.

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## CHACHA"G"

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I still think the leading candidates are the Z-10 and T-129, but we won't see them as a factor for several years. With the AH-1Z the PAA is going to get to use a top-end platform for a long-term period, and I suspect they'll want that experience to inform them moving forward. Paper performance is one thing, but things such as turnaround times, sand intrusion, reliability, etc are also critical.
> 
> That said, we might have a dark horse candidate in the Denel Aviation Rooivalk Mk2. It's way out right now, but there are a few interesting factors: (1) Denel will use the same airframe and engine, just upgrade the avionics, weapons and dynamic components; (2) the Rooivalk Mk2 will retain its rotor parts *and* engine commonality with the Super Puma; (3) the Super Puma is among the most widely used platforms available, and among the cheapest to buy (with only the Mi-171 beating it).
> 
> Denel said it needs 60-75 units to make the Rooivalk Mk2 feasible, and a co-funding partner would receive ToT for MRO, assembly and parts manufacturing. Unlike the T-129 and Z-10, the Rooivalk is a heavy platform akin to the Apache - it can carry 16 ATGMs, so if you pair a millimetric wave radar, you'd have a solid, rugged and affordable platform to use along the plains and deserts. If you get the Super Puma for transport, you'd have a nice one-two punch with the same engine, transmission, rotors, etc.
> 
> Remember, we signed a defence MoU with South Africa recently, and while no commitments or promises were made, it did direct Denel Aviation and Denel Land Systems to communicate with PAC and HIT, respectively. I think there's a fair chance the Rooivalk Mk2 will reach a table or two soon.


Very good Sir g , If PAA order more AH from USA then it means the field is open for different Platforms. And for TOT (home grown), Just like JF-17 , Our own Attack Heli , that heli will be back bone and AH-1Z will be aggressive punch.
To me I think it will be China or SA ................ and some help(avionics type) from Turkey .


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